**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 10 02:59:57 2008
Aug 10 04:08:27 <muthu> is there a gridbaglayout?
Aug 10 04:18:25 <muthu> what the heck is that handball about?
Aug 10 04:18:30 <yakischloba> ?
Aug 10 04:18:33 <muthu> is that a game, srly?
Aug 10 04:18:48 <muthu> olympics sports are funny!
Aug 10 04:18:53 <yakischloba> haha
Aug 10 04:19:41 <muthu> and its way more funny listening to indian commentators talking about indian chances for a medal!!
Aug 10 04:20:18 <muthu> china will top the gold this time
Aug 10 06:33:16 <muthu> the cuban boxers are good.. what a technique!
Aug 10 10:01:48 <jasta> yawn
Aug 10 10:01:51 <jasta> woo
Aug 10 10:13:06 <anno^da_> jasta: Good morning. I got a small question. Is it normal that the HttpClient takes a long time (20 seconds) to open his first connection. After that everything runs without any delay. But the first connection takes such a long time. Or is it just because the whole thing is emulated.
Aug 10 10:44:33 <tric> anno: maybe its resolving a hostname?
Aug 10 10:48:59 <anno^da_> that could be I have to check that. But ok I cant do sth. against it.
Aug 10 10:50:15 <tric> using ip only for debugging ;)
Aug 10 10:50:23 <tric> or speedup your nameserver
Aug 10 10:50:45 <romainguy> cell phones usually have high latency data connections
Aug 10 10:51:01 <romainguy> I don't know if our emulator emulates that but I would not be surprised it's *part* of your "problem"
Aug 10 10:51:08 <romainguy> check the emulator options and see if they help
Aug 10 10:54:26 <anno^da_> Thanks guys. I will do it now using ip only.
Aug 10 10:55:17 <anno^da_> But well using URLConnections works without delay. And I have to resolve the host name here as well.
Aug 10 10:56:57 <romainguy> that's strange :(
Aug 10 10:58:59 <anno^da_> Hmm that's strange. I'm using the HttpClient to open some connection to the Flickr API. After that I'm using a new instance for the connection to the Twitter API. Flickr takes 20 secs. Twitter connect is instantly. BUT I can change the order and get the same result.
Aug 10 10:59:31 <anno^da_> So it cant be one special service that is so slow.
Aug 10 11:03:34 <tric> yeah, would be cool if all sources included, you could nicley debug...
Aug 10 11:04:02 <anno^da_> hmm well yeah
Aug 10 11:04:35 <anno^da_> Using the IP results in the same problems :/
Aug 10 11:08:56 <anno^da_> Wireshark shows me the same result. It takes 20 seconds and after that the communications starts
Aug 10 13:10:33 <tomgibara> anno^da_: This delay in making the first connection is a known issue
Aug 10 13:10:44 <tomgibara> anno^da_: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=525
Aug 10 13:12:09 <anno^da_> tomgibara: thank you for your response.
Aug 10 13:12:25 <anno^da_> So I cant leave the code as is and just wait for a new SDK. :)
Aug 10 13:12:35 <anno^da_> can leave
Aug 10 13:12:36 <anno^da_> :)
Aug 10 14:02:13 <Dougie187> good morning
Aug 10 15:52:58 <yakischloba> morning
Aug 10 17:07:19 <anno^da_> romainguy: we found the problem with the httpclient it is a known issue. http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=525
Aug 10 17:42:11 <anno^da_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyceYJRUtE
Aug 10 18:21:44 <jasta> anno^da_: this bug is caused by the SSLSocektFactory initializing
Aug 10 18:22:14 <jasta> it can be worked around by creating your own scheme registry and excluding https
Aug 10 18:23:18 <jasta> it's quite clear if you break the blocking thread
Aug 10 18:24:36 <jasta> when i saw the bug, i recall saying "jesus, didn't anyone at Google test this?"
Aug 10 18:27:59 <jasta> i gotta get ready for hiking with my dad
Aug 10 18:28:06 <jasta> i'm a little hungover ;)
Aug 10 18:39:05 <michaelnovakjr__> howdy
Aug 10 19:04:30 <anno^da_> thanks jasta
Aug 10 19:04:34 <anno^da_> for the info
Aug 10 19:10:47 <romainguy> jasta: when i saw the bug, i recall saying "jesus, didn't anyone at Google test this?" << no, we don't test anything
Aug 10 19:11:10 <jasta> and that was romain's original response, too.
Aug 10 19:11:36 <anno^da_> :D
Aug 10 19:11:37 <jasta> despite this being nonsense because google offered up no known bugs section as most software with such outstanding bugs would do.
Aug 10 19:12:29 <romainguy> jasta: we wouldn't know since we don't test anything
Aug 10 19:13:04 <anno^da_> how much effort is it to write an own scheme registry ? (take in consideration that I'm quite a noob :) ) I have found the SchemeRegistry class but well thats it :D
Aug 10 19:13:51 <anno^da_> lol the HTC Dream made it to Engadet
Aug 10 19:13:54 <anno^da_> http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/10/htc-dream-or-just-some-reference-design-shown-off-on-video/
Aug 10 19:15:20 <tomgibara> anno^da_: you'll find an example in jasta's CancelHttpGet example
Aug 10 19:15:38 <anno^da_> ah I will look at it
Aug 10 19:15:42 <anno^da_> thanks!
Aug 10 19:15:46 <tomgibara> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=785
Aug 10 19:16:28 <tomgibara> anno^da_: (a well-stocked issue tracker is your friend)
Aug 10 19:16:36 <anno^da_> :)
Aug 10 19:24:23 <anno^da_> tomgibara: thanks now it is working just fine :)
Aug 10 19:25:05 <tomgibara> anno^da_: great, what is "it"?
Aug 10 19:27:23 <anno^da_> ah just some app for posting text,videos, photos etc on Tumblr. But saving the pictures at flickr, videos at vimeo and advertise the posts at twitter. And combining the whole posts with geo data. Just some test app playing with different APIs
Aug 10 19:29:28 <anno^da_> But well the UI is missing at the moment. And I'm trying to add it at the moment. :D (the stuff in the background works fine now and now without delay of the faulty HTTP Client
Aug 10 19:30:41 <tomgibara> anno^da_: Apart from the occasional bug, I've found Android to be very rapid to develop with - both for connecting to webservices and creating UIs.
Aug 10 19:31:45 <tomgibara> Though I feel that I really need a phone to test on because I'm bound to have errors of judgement in bandwidth/latency on one side and touch/flow on the other.
Aug 10 19:32:51 <anno^da_> Well if I take in consideration that I havent done much programming till this little app it is definetly great. It took me 5 days to implement the whole stuff connecting to twitter,flickr,tumblr and integrating their APIs. And it is just fun. Even if jasta sometimes cries to god what dumb questions I'm asking. :D (I know that and I'm sorry for that :) )
Aug 10 20:57:31 <zhobbs> wonder who leaked this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyceYJRUtE
Aug 10 20:59:17 <michaelnovakjr__> is that a homebrew OS?
Aug 10 20:59:26 <zhobbs> looks like android to me
Aug 10 20:59:31 <yakischloba> kind of?..
Aug 10 20:59:55 <yakischloba> hard to see really
Aug 10 21:01:12 <michaelnovakjr__> doesn't look like android to me
Aug 10 21:01:40 <yakischloba> me either
Aug 10 21:03:09 <tomgibara> The list dialogues you see towards the end of the video look like those of Android - to me at least
Aug 10 21:04:03 <yakischloba> it looks like hes selecting programs or something from the window with a bunch of icons, but that doesnt look like the android home screen at all
Aug 10 21:04:37 <tomgibara> How not? It looks fairly consistent with what I saw from Google IO
Aug 10 21:04:52 <tomgibara> It also looks like Romain's landscape photography.
Aug 10 21:04:57 <yakischloba> lol
Aug 10 21:05:00 <yakischloba> telltale sign ;)
Aug 10 21:05:28 <yakischloba> all I see on the desktop is one icon
Aug 10 21:05:31 <tomgibara> a signature android feature to-date
Aug 10 21:06:34 <tomgibara> From memory, the demo at IO showed a desktop-like screen that was accessible by sliding the home screen horizontally.
Aug 10 21:07:15 <zhobbs> hard to tell
Aug 10 21:07:17 <yakischloba> I guess I haven't actually seen a device implementation other than a few random videos. i'm just looking at it from my experience in the emulator
Aug 10 21:07:38 <tomgibara> My memory might be failing me, but if I'm right, the desktop metaphor demonstrated in the video adds credence to the suggestion that it's android.
Aug 10 21:08:19 <tomgibara> I'm not particularly bothered one way or another - I don't think it tells me much.
Aug 10 21:08:43 <zhobbs> tomgibara: yeah, looks like android to me...we'd know for sure if he wasn't moving the camera around so much
Aug 10 21:08:47 <yakischloba> yeah. honestly I could care less until theres an android device in my hand.
Aug 10 21:09:39 <tomgibara> You can see the status bar at the top - it looks like android's
Aug 10 21:09:47 <yakischloba> that it does
Aug 10 21:09:56 <tomgibara> and the screen rotation semantics look consistent w/ the SDK too
Aug 10 21:10:31 <tomgibara> semantics is a useless word there, I meant mechanics
Aug 10 21:12:17 <tomgibara> zhobbs: I've never tried filming one phone w/ another and given that he might have been hiding in a store cupoard to film it, I think it's hard to criticize
Aug 10 21:14:03 <tomgibara> Anyway, I find the duplicity of people who leak things like this distasteful. I'd prefer it if the video hadn't been published.
Aug 10 21:14:45 <yakischloba> why
Aug 10 21:17:12 <f00f-> video is garbage
Aug 10 21:17:19 <tomgibara> When I work for a company, there is a mutuality (usually explicit or perhaps implied) in that agreement. Leaking information against the wishes of the company is a betrayal.
Aug 10 21:18:18 <f00f-> yeah
Aug 10 21:18:22 <f00f-> doesnt stop people though
Aug 10 21:18:49 <yakischloba> Agreed, and I abide by the same idea. there are however, worse evils in the world. When was the last time a hot product came out without having some grainy video leaked on youtube first?
Aug 10 21:21:06 <f00f-> 10 years ago, probably
Aug 10 21:21:19 <tomgibara> I don't care about the magnitude. This person (assuming they aren't making a prank, which is a different thing) made a personal decision to do wrong against the company that employs him and by extension, in my opinion, his colleagues. It's that I find distasteful.
Aug 10 21:21:51 <tomgibara> Whether it's materially damaging is a separate question.
Aug 10 21:22:15 <f00f-> correct
Aug 10 21:22:32 <yakischloba> it certainly is distasteful.
Aug 10 21:23:41 <f00f-> i'd fire the guy
Aug 10 21:23:51 <yakischloba> of course
Aug 10 21:24:34 <tomgibara> I would find out the facts and base my actions on all the circumstances. But I would certainly view it very harshly
Aug 10 21:25:03 <yakischloba> What would be a circumstance that wouldn't merit firing the person?
Aug 10 21:25:13 <anno^da_> But no matter if it is wrong or right to leak that device. I dont thinkt that this will be the final design of the device.
Aug 10 21:25:57 <tomgibara> If say, the person was having mental health problems or if they had been put up to it by a more dominant member of staff who could use them as the fall-guy.
Aug 10 21:26:28 <tomgibara> On the other side, were there other factors such as renumeration, that might make it criminal.
Aug 10 21:26:49 <yakischloba> IMO if the person has mental health problems to the point of losing their judgement like that, they shouldn't have been working for me anyways
Aug 10 21:26:56 <f00f-> too much speculation
Aug 10 21:27:59 <tomgibara> f00f-: I'm not speculating, I'm engaging in a discussion about a hypothetical circumstance.
Aug 10 21:28:11 <yakischloba> yeah I was just curious
Aug 10 21:28:23 <f00f-> dont discuss too much until you know the facts !
Aug 10 21:28:32 <f00f-> we cant jump to conclusions
Aug 10 21:28:35 <yakischloba> f00f-: We obviously aren't talking about the guy who leaked it.
Aug 10 21:28:36 <f00f-> innnocent >> guilty, etc.
Aug 10 21:28:41 <f00f-> who are you talking about
Aug 10 21:29:00 <yakischloba> a hypothetical employee who leaks product information
Aug 10 21:29:05 <tomgibara> yakischolba: I'm not the sort of person who would just fire someone because they were having health problems - also the law might have something to say about it.
Aug 10 21:30:36 <tomgibara> yakischolba: None of this detracts from our shared opinion that it's an extremely serious breach - and only comensurately serious circumstances could justify it.
Aug 10 21:31:57 <yakischloba> tomgibara: of course. I guess if someone's bizarre mental health issues compelled them to leak product information and then return to normal I would at the very least demote them to a position where they are not exposed to any private info
Aug 10 21:32:09 <tomgibara> yakischolba: (I only meant to imply that the first part was our shared opinion, run-on sentences are so easy in IRC)
Aug 10 21:32:20 <anno^da_> f00f-: What are we doing in the last months except speculating :) ?
Aug 10 21:32:48 <tomgibara> yakischolba: agreed
Aug 10 21:33:13 <yakischloba> anno^da_: some of us don't have to speculate as much as others, as a portion of the blanks are filled in
Aug 10 21:33:16 <tomgibara> yakischolba: One always has to consider one's reponsibility to employees and shareholders too.
Aug 10 21:33:44 <yakischloba> yeah
Aug 10 21:33:50 <tomgibara> *other employees
Aug 10 21:35:14 <anno^da_> yakischloba: true. But the most time we are speculating because there is nothing really new since hmm march..may?
Aug 10 21:36:19 <yakischloba> anno^da_: i try not to speculate. there are too many unknowns in this world to spend time thinking about ;)
Aug 10 21:37:20 <yakischloba> i just work with what I have and if I can get some hints that might save me time i'm happy to hear them
Aug 10 21:40:49 <tomgibara> I really don't care about the video, but I love puzzles: I reckon the photo is of Death Valley.
Aug 11 01:43:45 <morrildl> What's up?
Aug 11 01:43:55 <morrildl> Anything happen while I was on vaca?
Aug 11 02:55:14 <zhobbs> morrildl: some stuff happened...HTC video leaked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyceYJRUtE
Aug 11 02:55:27 <morrildl> zhobbs: yeah we saw that
Aug 11 02:55:42 <zhobbs> you "fix" the leak?
Aug 11 02:56:19 <zhobbs> morrildl: and vid of tunewiki entry: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/07/tunewiki-androids-iphone-like-media-player-that-may-become-the-platforms-standard/
Aug 11 02:56:29 <zhobbs> though, you could probably just run the apk if you wanted
Aug 11 02:56:36 <zhobbs> for all 50
Aug 11 02:59:23 <f00f-> looks like it's running m5
Aug 11 02:59:28 <f00f-> m6 rather
Aug 11 02:59:37 <zhobbs> m6?
Aug 11 02:59:47 <f00f-> yeah
Aug 11 02:59:50 <f00f-> we dont have access to it
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 11 02:59:57 2008