**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 18 02:59:57 2008
Aug 18 03:00:16 <jasta> that is certainly a possibility.  if she was over hydrated normally
Aug 18 03:00:19 <gambler> i dont know, but i remember it was waaay longer then anyone expected she reasonably could have went
Aug 18 03:00:46 <jasta> you know, the US military has invented a filtering technology whereby soldiers in survival situations can drink their own urine for up to 2 weeks before liver damage sets in
Aug 18 03:01:28 <gambler> seems unnecessary....new technology you can usually manufacture water from the air, as long as their is a bit of humidity
Aug 18 03:01:50 <jasta> well, that technology would have to be compact
Aug 18 03:02:01 <jasta> and also, survival situations don't typically have fuel sources.
Aug 18 03:02:08 <jasta> electricity, gasoline, etc.
Aug 18 03:02:27 <gambler> yah i think thats aimed more at regiments than soliders trapped on their own
Aug 18 03:02:28 <jasta> the filter i described is chemical, and requires no external power.
Aug 18 03:05:03 <gambler> gotta get back to coding my app!
Aug 18 03:05:18 <romainguy> re
Aug 18 04:05:17 <meoblast001> are there any email apps out for Android?
Aug 18 04:06:42 <jasta> google is obviously producing one
Aug 18 04:06:46 <jasta> but it has not been revealed
Aug 18 04:07:37 <meoblast001> jasta: let me guess... Gmail only?
Aug 18 04:07:39 <meoblast001> =/
Aug 18 04:07:47 <jasta> no information has been revealed whatsoever.
Aug 18 04:07:51 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 18 04:08:07 <meoblast001> i ditched Gmail for AOL mail because i personally prefer IMAP
Aug 18 04:08:15 <jasta> i don't care.
Aug 18 04:08:28 <meoblast001> jasta: you dont have to be rude about it
Aug 18 04:08:48 <romainguy__> meoblast001: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=75725
Aug 18 04:08:54 <jasta> you don't have to be extraneous.
Aug 18 04:09:08 <meoblast001> you dont have to use big words
Aug 18 04:09:43 <meoblast001> romainguy__: when did they integrate this?
Aug 18 04:10:34 <romainguy__> meoblast001: I don't remember
Aug 18 04:10:43 <romainguy__> you can also import other IMAP/POP accounts into Gmail
Aug 18 04:10:46 <meoblast001> convince me to use Gmail again
Aug 18 04:10:53 <meoblast001> oh no
Aug 18 04:10:54 <jasta> lol
Aug 18 04:10:56 <meoblast001> 399 imbox
Aug 18 04:11:02 <meoblast001> inbox(
Aug 18 04:11:03 <meoblast001> *
Aug 18 04:13:26 <meoblast001> romainguy__: is google tv ever going to come out?
Aug 18 04:13:35 <romainguy__> what is that?
Aug 18 04:13:43 <meoblast001> oh wait
Aug 18 04:13:46 <meoblast001> i just got a report
Aug 18 04:13:48 <meoblast001> that it doesnt exist
Aug 18 04:13:49 <meoblast001> LOL
Aug 18 04:13:53 <meoblast001> it was all made up
Aug 18 04:14:06 <meoblast001> i watched a video about it a long time ago
Aug 18 04:14:11 <meoblast001> and it must have all been a lie
Aug 18 04:14:19 <meoblast001> i even did what it told me to do in the video and it did nothing
Aug 18 04:14:30 <jasta> please stop pressing enter so much.  or at all.
Aug 18 04:14:32 <meoblast001> romainguy__: look up google tv
Aug 18 04:17:47 <meoblast001> romainguy__: why is google keeping everything so secretive with Android?
Aug 18 04:17:59 <romainguy__> because we're busy working on it
Aug 18 04:18:15 <romainguy__> and for a bunch of other reasons that I cannot talk about :)
Aug 18 04:18:23 <jasta> i was about to call bullshit on that ;)
Aug 18 04:18:23 <romainguy__> but I'm sure you can figure out some of them
Aug 18 04:18:49 <meoblast001> Canonical has more to worry about but they let everyone know everything
Aug 18 04:18:51 <romainguy__> jasta: I don't care :)
Aug 18 04:19:26 <jasta> cute.
Aug 18 04:20:10 <meoblast001> romainguy__: remind me not to download Five
Aug 18 04:20:23 <meoblast001> i think i'll go with TuneWiki
Aug 18 04:20:27 <jasta> will you have trouble remembering it yourself?
Aug 18 04:20:47 <meoblast001> jasta: YAHHHHH BITCH YAHHHHHH
Aug 18 04:23:15 <romainguy__> yo morrildl
Aug 18 04:28:18 <meoblast001> hi morrildl
Aug 18 04:28:36 <meoblast001> i feel like i'm nothing but a nuicence in this channel
Aug 18 04:28:40 <meoblast001> typical
Aug 18 04:28:44 <meoblast001> i feel like that everywhere i go
Aug 18 04:30:05 <romainguy__> meoblast001: you're not
Aug 18 04:30:13 <romainguy__> meoblast001: don't pay too much attention to jasta
Aug 18 04:30:38 <meoblast001>  /ignore ?
Aug 18 04:30:43 <romainguy__> no
Aug 18 04:30:48 <romainguy__> but don't take it too personal
Aug 18 04:31:09 <meoblast001> my brain is wired different
Aug 18 04:31:12 <meoblast001> i take everything personal
Aug 18 04:31:32 <_avatar> meoblast001: then irc definitely isn't the place for you ;)
Aug 18 04:31:49 <meoblast001> i hate how Asperger's sufferers have to adjust to the world but the world doesnt do anything to adjust to us
Aug 18 04:33:24 <meoblast001> romainguy__: if i ever got to talk to the president of google, i would crap myself
Aug 18 04:34:23 <romainguy__> he's just a dude :)
Aug 18 04:34:56 <meoblast001> romainguy__: have you ever talked to him?
Aug 18 04:35:03 <romainguy__> yes I have
Aug 18 04:35:07 <meoblast001> omg
Aug 18 04:35:26 <meoblast001> romainguy__: tell him i said hi
Aug 18 04:35:30 <romainguy__> lol
Aug 18 04:35:34 <meoblast001> lol
Aug 18 04:35:47 <meoblast001> romainguy__: ask him to improve my site rank =P
Aug 18 04:36:06 <meoblast001> i google my website every now and then
Aug 18 04:36:09 <meoblast001> i experiment
Aug 18 04:36:12 <meoblast001> with google
Aug 18 04:36:19 <meoblast001> im hitting enter too much... im sorry
Aug 18 04:36:21 <morrildl> much better
Aug 18 04:37:36 <morrildl> meoblast001: It turns out that Sergey is sneaky like a ninja
Aug 18 04:38:03 <morrildl> No fewer than three times so far, I've been talking to someone, finished up, turned around, and found Sergey right behind me talking to someone else
Aug 18 04:38:32 <meoblast001> who's Sergey?
Aug 18 04:38:37 <morrildl> meoblast001: one of the founders
Aug 18 04:39:02 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 18 04:39:04 <meoblast001> he comes in here?
Aug 18 04:39:13 <morrildl> no, I mean in real life, not in IRC
Aug 18 04:39:23 <meoblast001> morrildl: do you work for Google?
Aug 18 04:39:28 <morrildl> meoblast001: eah
Aug 18 04:39:30 <morrildl> yeah
Aug 18 04:39:35 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 18 04:39:54 <meoblast001> lol
Aug 18 04:40:02 <meoblast001> i'll put google on my companies to work for list
Aug 18 04:40:06 <meoblast001> maybe #2 =P
Aug 18 04:40:13 <meoblast001> since it was a 1 company list previous
Aug 18 04:40:15 <meoblast001> Insomniac Games
Aug 18 04:40:28 <morrildl> hmm, insomniac
Aug 18 04:40:31 <morrildl> what did they did?
Aug 18 04:40:37 <morrildl> er, what did they do, rather
Aug 18 04:40:45 <meoblast001> www.insomniacgames.com
Aug 18 04:40:50 <morrildl> Metroid Prime 3 maybe?
Aug 18 04:41:17 <meoblast001> no.... they did Spyro 1, 2, and 3... Ratchet and Clank... and Resistance: Fall of Man
Aug 18 04:42:02 <morrildl> oh right, ratchet and clank
Aug 18 04:42:06 <morrildl> that's where I remember them from
Aug 18 04:42:10 <morrildl> cool :)
Aug 18 04:43:22 <morrildl> okay well
Aug 18 04:43:24 <morrildl> bedtime
Aug 18 04:43:27 <morrildl> I have to get up early tomorrow
Aug 18 04:46:36 <meoblast001> night morrildl
Aug 18 08:22:34 <anno^da_> Looking at this review: http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/18/telus-htc-touch-diamond-gets-video-review/ . I'm wondering why the people are always satisfied with the performance of the UI. The reviewer finds the photo album great... Well it looks builts up so slow and it's not what I expect from a snappy UI.
Aug 18 08:22:50 <anno^da_> -looks
Aug 18 08:30:13 <alex2308> how can i replace strings in pipes in linux?
Aug 18 08:44:36 <alex2308> great device @ anno^da_
Aug 18 08:44:45 <alex2308> awesome performance
Aug 18 08:47:52 <anno^da_> lol
Aug 18 08:48:01 <anno^da_> the photo show is damn slow
Aug 18 08:48:31 <anno^da_> compare that to the UI of the iPhone and you will notice how damn slow the UI of WM is
Aug 18 08:48:58 <anno^da_> photo show: touch -> wait wait wait -> action on the screen occurs
Aug 18 08:55:04 <anno^da_> But the hardware design is nice and I hope that the pictures of the HTC Dream that we know will not be the final  version.
Aug 18 08:59:36 <alex2308> the iphone code is C
Aug 18 08:59:42 <alex2308> win code is .NET
Aug 18 08:59:56 <alex2308> hard to compare those
Aug 18 09:00:35 <alex2308> btw the touch (w/o keyboard) is much nicer
Aug 18 09:00:40 <romainguy__> windows mobile's code is probably mostly C/C++ actually
Aug 18 09:00:57 <alex2308> the photo album code isnt
Aug 18 09:01:06 <romainguy__> and iPhone is Objective-C :p
Aug 18 09:02:55 <alex2308> hopefully someone will port android to the touch diamond
Aug 18 09:03:03 <alex2308> i love the design
Aug 18 09:03:09 <alex2308> even though it lacks a keyboard
Aug 18 09:31:42 <anno^da_> Well even if you want to compare the languages the normal customer doesnt care about that. They only compare the user experience you have with the phone. And speed is from my personal view one of the most important factors. It is so annoying to have a slow interface.
Aug 18 09:32:51 <cutmasta> anno^da_, yep
Aug 18 09:32:55 <romainguy> that's why we're trying to make Android's UI fast
Aug 18 09:33:08 <cutmasta> they dont care if its written in language XYZ or runs on ZXY
Aug 18 09:33:43 <anno^da_> romainguy: that is great. :)
Aug 18 09:33:55 <anno^da_> cutmasta: they dont even know the languages.
Aug 18 09:34:59 <cutmasta> sure
Aug 18 09:35:02 <anno^da_> they want a job to be done no matter what language,framework or whatever more.
Aug 18 09:35:09 <cutmasta> yes
Aug 18 09:35:13 <cutmasta> and they want this
Aug 18 09:35:19 <cutmasta> easy and fast
Aug 18 09:35:25 <anno^da_> thats it
Aug 18 09:35:33 <cutmasta> nothing less or more
Aug 18 09:35:35 <cutmasta> ok
Aug 18 09:35:49 <cutmasta> perhaps as fast as even possible
Aug 18 09:35:50 <cutmasta> hehe
Aug 18 09:36:11 <anno^da_> :) haha. After that the weekly question to romainguy to tell us sth about the SDK release. But well I know it should be a suprise. :)
Aug 18 09:36:45 <romainguy> the SDK will be released when it's released :)
Aug 18 09:36:49 <romainguy> I don't want to spoil the surprise
Aug 18 09:38:20 <anno^da_> :D the same answer like every week. But perhaps I don't have to ask you again next week. (... *Whisper* the chance to give us a hint :-) )
Aug 18 09:38:55 <romainguy> well
Aug 18 09:39:13 <romainguy> the SDK will be released when it's released :)
Aug 18 09:39:39 <anno^da_> *grr* ok. ;)
Aug 18 09:39:48 <tric> no, please dont release it any time soon. i dont wanna change anything for my thesis ;)
Aug 18 09:39:57 <romainguy> aw come on
Aug 18 09:40:03 <romainguy> we just changed 30% of the APIs this time
Aug 18 09:40:11 <anno^da_> :P
Aug 18 09:40:26 <tric> ok, cool. i bet im using the other 70%
Aug 18 09:40:40 <romainguy> I doubt it :p
Aug 18 09:40:44 <anno^da_> tric when do you have to hand in your thesis ?
Aug 18 09:40:57 <romainguy> note that this number includes added APIs, removed APIs, renamed APIs, etc.
Aug 18 09:41:49 <tric> anno: december. but ill prolly use m5-15 no matter what.
Aug 18 09:42:20 <tric> romanguy: the coming release is the reason why new issues dont get reviewed?
Aug 18 09:42:28 <romainguy> new issues get reviewd
Aug 18 09:42:33 <romainguy> we just do a bad job at marking them
Aug 18 09:42:40 <anno^da_> :D
Aug 18 09:42:47 <romainguy> there are tons of issues on the tracker that are obsolete now
Aug 18 09:43:23 <romainguy> and because issues are on the tracker doesn't mean we'll deal with them for the next SDK
Aug 18 09:44:23 <tric> just mark them as reviewed and issues that are obsolete as wontfix or obsolete. oh well
Aug 18 09:44:47 <romainguy> things are not that simple :)
Aug 18 09:44:59 <romainguy> we use a different tracker internally
Aug 18 09:45:12 <tric> oh, server error while requesting issue details
Aug 18 09:45:13 <romainguy> we have some scripts to link the two but it's not always reliable
Aug 18 09:45:29 <tric> looks like the script is broken for some weeks now ;)
Aug 18 10:21:22 <alex2308> its broken by design ;)
Aug 18 10:21:52 <romainguy__> tric: that's because we're busy fixing bugs :)
Aug 18 10:23:26 * swetland yawns
Aug 18 10:23:48 <romainguy> hey swetland
Aug 18 10:23:57 <swetland> 'morning
Aug 18 10:24:12 <romainguy> time to go to bed for me
Aug 18 13:00:44 <spykid> FCC passed the Dream today :D
Aug 18 13:00:50 <cutmasta> ?
Aug 18 13:01:03 <spykid> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=128913&fcc_id='NM8DRM'
Aug 18 13:01:12 <zhobbs> http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/18/htc-dream-fcc-approved-android-clear-for-launch/
Aug 18 13:01:13 <cutmasta> http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/18/htc-dream-fcc-approved-android-clear-for-launch/
Aug 18 13:01:15 <cutmasta> ahh
Aug 18 13:01:17 <cutmasta> hehe
Aug 18 13:04:01 <muthu> gr8
Aug 18 13:06:45 <buster> wheeee \o/
Aug 18 13:07:50 <NiZoX> uhu :D
Aug 18 13:58:18 <tric> is there any easy way to access Logcat from a ansi c lib which is used via jni?
Aug 18 13:59:55 <swetland> easiest way would be to open /dev/log_* and read the raw log messages
Aug 18 14:02:19 <swetland> http://git.android.com/?p=kernel.git;a=blob;f=include/linux/logger.h;hb=android-2.6.25
Aug 18 14:03:20 <tric> swtland: writing, not reading ;)
Aug 18 14:03:50 <tric> but hmm, lemme check
Aug 18 14:04:37 <swetland> same device for both
Aug 18 14:07:11 <swetland> you'll have to sort out the message format (I believe the various fields are \0 delimited), but all logcat does is open /dev/log_*, read entires, and print them (with some formatting)
Aug 18 14:09:15 <tric> ok, i think for debugging writing to a /tmp file is enough now ;)
Aug 18 14:12:14 <swetland> int __android_log_write(int prio, const char *tag, const char *text);
Aug 18 14:12:21 <swetland> int __android_log_print(int prio, const char *tag,  const char *fmt, ...)
Aug 18 14:13:27 <swetland> do be aware that native jni stuff is not actually supported in the 1.0 sdk, but if you're going to dig around down there, the above may prove useful ^^
Aug 18 14:14:46 <tric> ahh, cool. where did you find it?
Aug 18 14:15:32 <tric> swetland: i know about jni. im only writing my thesis. if they remove or change alot jni support ill stick with rc5-m15 ,-)
Aug 18 14:17:31 <swetland> logd.h, which is not something we publish as part of the SDK (again, because it's not supporting native development at this point)
Aug 18 14:18:06 <swetland> and no longer even correctly named, as it dates back to when there *was* a log daemon, before the switch to the kernel driver
Aug 18 14:30:34 <alex2308> tric what thesis?
Aug 18 14:32:43 <tric> bachelor
Aug 18 14:33:02 <tric> testing voip quality under android
Aug 18 14:33:14 <muthu> http://ycombinator.com/w2009.html
Aug 18 14:33:20 <muthu> how many applying for that?
Aug 18 14:34:22 <spykid> muthu: from this channel or in general? :D
Aug 18 14:34:33 <alex2308> which voip app do you use?
Aug 18 14:34:36 <muthu> anyone can raise your hand ;)
Aug 18 14:35:44 <tric> alex: my own based on mjsip. im working in a company which sells a voip quality testing lib, ive ported it to android and implemented a simple voip client to use it.
Aug 18 14:36:00 <alex2308> very nice
Aug 18 14:36:12 <alex2308> how is it doing so far?
Aug 18 14:36:20 <spykid> muthu: Ycombinator is great but I've got family ;) - btw Rich Miner was speaking to those doing s2009
Aug 18 14:36:23 <tric> the lib is the reason why i have to use jni ;)
Aug 18 14:37:28 <tric> alex: well, most is working, but rtp streams are pretty bad, because of timing issues. but well. no wonder its an emulator and beta code with prolly alot debug stuff in it
Aug 18 14:37:45 <muthu> spykid: thanks for the inof
Aug 18 14:37:51 <muthu> s/inof/info/g
Aug 18 14:38:18 <alex2308> sounds cool, a voip client is one of my fav apps
Aug 18 14:38:23 <alex2308> *would be
Aug 18 14:39:31 <tric> hehe yeah. well, my client is only playing a .wav file and writing all incoming stream to a .wav, cause i couldnt get audiosystem to work.
Aug 18 14:40:10 <tric> and its only a prototype. so no registering and only direct ip calls. and it will never be released i guess ;)
Aug 18 14:40:51 <tric> swetland: those android_log_* are syscalls?
Aug 18 14:43:10 <muthu> http://ycombinator.com/ideas.html
Aug 18 14:43:15 <muthu> for those short of ideas..
Aug 18 14:43:19 <muthu> how easy can this get?
Aug 18 14:45:02 <spykid> muthu: Ideas are worthless if you don't execute :D
Aug 18 14:45:11 <muthu> agree
Aug 18 14:45:49 <muthu> actually ideas would make your poor ;)
Aug 18 14:47:31 <jasta> alex2308: voip would not work well without wi-fi.
Aug 18 14:47:36 <jasta> and even then...
Aug 18 14:48:05 <jasta> the damn thing is designed to be a phone, and it does that job well on it sown.
Aug 18 14:53:27 <tric> jasta: my e51 supports voip as well. some phones are using voip
Aug 18 14:54:32 <jasta> voip over the wireless data connection?
Aug 18 14:55:22 <jasta> i would find that very hard to believe
Aug 18 14:56:19 <anno^da_> well the delay could be very hard to handle. With 200ms and more voip wouldnt be that funny :)
Aug 18 14:57:14 <jasta> that's my point.  voip on a mobile phone seems like a totally pointless technology.  it would basically only work at home, and even then what is the real advantage?  not using your minutes?
Aug 18 14:57:40 <jasta> maybe i just don't like to blab on my phone much, but i find it effortless to stay within my 900 minutes a month.
Aug 18 14:57:52 <morrildl> jasta: yes, and that's very important in certain mobile markets
Aug 18 14:57:54 <jasta> and i use my cell phone in place of home phone service
Aug 18 14:58:11 <jasta> morrildl: like Japan, probably.  but where else?
Aug 18 14:58:13 <morrildl> you're right in that VOIP on a cell phone may not be that compelling in the US, but in other markets there is a lot of interest
Aug 18 14:58:31 <morrildl> jasta: Japan is enough.
Aug 18 14:58:40 <morrildl> but also, Europe
Aug 18 14:59:06 <anno^da_> Well I'm in Europe and with more flatrates on the mobile I dont need VOIP anymore.
Aug 18 14:59:07 <jasta> i know Japan, but be realistic: is anyone going to penetrate that market? :)
Aug 18 14:59:32 <morrildl> also even in the US, a *lot* of people use text messages and data way more than voice, in which case a VOIP client on a phone could let those people cut way down on minutes
Aug 18 14:59:46 <morrildl> jasta: uh, yes?  DoCoMo?  Panasonic? etc.
Aug 18 14:59:49 <jasta> isn't Android being marketted there as a *slimmed down* feature phone?
Aug 18 15:00:16 <alex2308> voip over wifi is cool, cause its (nearly) free
Aug 18 15:00:27 <alex2308> or sometimes it is completely free
Aug 18 15:00:29 <jasta> alex2308: well you still have to pay for voip service at your home.
Aug 18 15:00:43 <alex2308> i use it often at work or home
Aug 18 15:00:58 <alex2308> jasta: some offer free calls to germany
Aug 18 15:01:23 <anno^da_> Well jasta but if I talk with my friends over mobile skype it is free. (except the cost for the internet conntent)
Aug 18 15:01:38 <anno^da_> But I see you're point calling to the landline costs as well.
Aug 18 15:02:05 <alex2308> data is much cheaper here, so IM/EMAIL >> SMS/MMS and VoIP >> call
Aug 18 15:02:34 <alex2308> *datacalls
Aug 18 15:02:41 <jasta> well, regardless of what i think, i am certain someone will work to support it.
Aug 18 15:02:49 <anno^da_> Well in the field of messaging I prefer the data line. IM over GPRS / UMTS is much cheaper than SMS/MMS.
Aug 18 15:02:55 <jasta> though it is unknown if android will have wi-fi built in.
Aug 18 15:03:16 <alex2308> FCC says it will
Aug 18 15:03:17 <anno^da_> so morrildl will confirm that right now. :-)
Aug 18 15:03:19 <zhobbs> jasta: fcc docs say it is
Aug 18 15:03:43 <anno^da_> (..or not :) )
Aug 18 15:03:44 <alex2308> also with femtocells youll have fast UMTS lines
Aug 18 15:03:51 <jasta> anno^da_: everyone prefers the data line there.  SMS is ridiculous in every market :)
Aug 18 15:04:16 <jasta> actually though, i have never owned a mobile with wi-fi.  that feature always struck me as unnecessary.
Aug 18 15:04:38 <jasta> i live, work, and play all within 3G/UMTS coverage, as i think most people do in major cities around the world.
Aug 18 15:04:49 <alex2308> i do own a nokia n80ie and the htc touch diamond. using wifi daily
Aug 18 15:04:52 <zhobbs> might be good for voip or something
Aug 18 15:05:04 <anno^da_> thats true. At home I have my pc and on the go I havent seen a wifi network. :)
Aug 18 15:05:12 <anno^da_> (pc or notebook)
Aug 18 15:05:17 <alex2308> i do, too. but i pay 9 eurocent per MB via UMTS
Aug 18 15:06:11 <jasta> there's this stigma that the US is so far behind in the mobile space and i swear i just don't see it.
Aug 18 15:06:27 <jasta> perhaps our technology isn't superior to most markets, but at least our rates are.
Aug 18 15:06:57 <jasta> unlimited data is within reach of most subscribers, for example.  usually between $20 and $40/mo depending on extras or special phones.
Aug 18 15:07:13 <anno^da_> Well at least the point that you are bound to the providers is so far behind what I know. :)
Aug 18 15:07:13 <michaelnovakjr_> howdy
Aug 18 15:07:37 <alex2308> developing country rates for a backward network ;) (jk)
Aug 18 15:07:49 <anno^da_> I'm walking into a store and buy my prefered phone without contract.
Aug 18 15:07:57 <michaelnovakjr_> good for you
Aug 18 15:08:12 <michaelnovakjr_> you are also paying out the ass for it :)
Aug 18 15:08:17 <anno^da_> Just wanted to point out that there are differences. :)
Aug 18 15:08:28 <anno^da_> lol not really michaelnovakjr
Aug 18 15:08:32 <anno^da_> You have the choice.
Aug 18 15:08:42 <anno^da_> And I dont like to be forced to sth.
Aug 18 15:08:49 <michaelnovakjr_> how much is an iphone there?
Aug 18 15:09:00 <anno^da_> I can buy a phone for 1 euro with contract or 200 eur.
Aug 18 15:09:06 <anno^da_> without
Aug 18 15:09:22 <michaelnovakjr_> what about the iphone?
Aug 18 15:09:23 <alex2308> 525 eur an iphone 3g
Aug 18 15:09:33 <anno^da_> The iPhone is the same as everywhere in the world. :) It is the first phone that took that step back.
Aug 18 15:09:45 <alex2308> anno^da_ its not
Aug 18 15:09:45 <anno^da_> And for me thats a reason not to buy it.
Aug 18 15:09:50 <michaelnovakjr_> i can get a cheap ass phone here too
Aug 18 15:09:59 <anno^da_> alex2308: not ?
Aug 18 15:10:12 <alex2308> iphone is priced different worldwide
Aug 18 15:10:31 <anno^da_> ah you meant the pricing.
Aug 18 15:10:36 <alex2308> michaelnovakjr_ can you get an iphone?
Aug 18 15:10:43 <anno^da_> Yeah well I meant the binding to a provider.
Aug 18 15:10:48 <michaelnovakjr_> sure
Aug 18 15:10:54 <michaelnovakjr_> it'll cost a lot of money
Aug 18 15:10:59 <michaelnovakjr_> but i could get one
Aug 18 15:11:16 <alex2308> [17:08:10] <michaelnovakjr_> you are also paying out the ass for it :)
Aug 18 15:11:26 <michaelnovakjr_> absolutely
Aug 18 15:11:37 <michaelnovakjr_> but i can also get one reasonable too
Aug 18 15:11:44 <michaelnovakjr_> i paid $30 for me current phone
Aug 18 15:11:46 <alex2308> you could get the iphone for free, too
Aug 18 15:11:49 <michaelnovakjr_> my*
Aug 18 15:11:59 <jasta> the iphone for free?  where?
Aug 18 15:12:10 <alex2308> germany
Aug 18 15:12:34 <michaelnovakjr_> so why doesn't germany just be the whole world?
Aug 18 15:12:47 <michaelnovakjr_> oh wait they tried that already :)
Aug 18 15:14:12 <alex2308> dont be jealous ;)
Aug 18 15:14:34 <michaelnovakjr_> not jealous.... i don't mind the way cellphones work here
Aug 18 15:14:40 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm going to get an iPhone :)
Aug 18 15:15:37 <alex2308> ok
Aug 18 15:16:19 <spykid> alex2308: Free? 1 Euro :D
Aug 18 15:16:41 <alex2308> true
Aug 18 15:16:48 <spykid> ...and 134$ monthly plan
Aug 18 15:17:03 <alex2308> true
Aug 18 15:18:37 <jasta> that doesn't seem like a good deal ;)
Aug 18 15:19:06 <jasta> i think the cheapest you can get the iphone for here is $70USD/mo tho.
Aug 18 15:19:14 <jasta> -for
Aug 18 15:20:45 <alex2308> the 134$ plan is the most expensive one. it includes unlimited data, 1000 minutes, unlimited wifi, xxx free sms... the cheapest is at 29eur/mth
Aug 18 15:20:49 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta you can get a good plan for 80
Aug 18 15:21:07 <michaelnovakjr_> for 80 its low minutes and ulimited data/sms
Aug 18 15:21:19 <michaelnovakjr_> i use less than 100 minutes a month :)
Aug 18 15:21:41 <michaelnovakjr_> change the topic to Get an iPhone!!
Aug 18 15:21:43 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Aug 18 15:22:03 <alex2308> i used 27 hours last month, around 26h of those to my gf :p
Aug 18 15:22:11 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: yeah... that's pretty much not going to happen
Aug 18 15:22:34 <michaelnovakjr_> 1-800 numbers don't count as girlfriends :)
Aug 18 15:23:10 <alex2308> but she says im special!!11
Aug 18 15:24:06 <michaelnovakjr_> morrildl: but it might attract people :)
Aug 18 15:24:13 <jasta> alex2308: "unlimited wifi"?
Aug 18 15:24:57 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta, he's paying for something he can get for free :)
Aug 18 15:25:00 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_: i have a 900 minute a month plan with AT&T.  my work pay sofr it. :)
Aug 18 15:25:03 <alex2308> in those tmobile hotspots
Aug 18 15:25:10 <anno^da_> jasta: at train stations you have free access to the hot spots
Aug 18 15:25:12 <alex2308> (i never used one, not sure how it works)
Aug 18 15:25:21 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta, so what's the hold up? you should have an iPhone already :)
Aug 18 15:25:21 <jasta> anno^da_: shouldn't those just be free anyway?
Aug 18 15:25:28 <jasta> charging for public wi-fi is the lamest policy ever.
Aug 18 15:25:28 <alex2308> no they arent
Aug 18 15:25:36 <anno^da_> jasta: well the T-Mobile Hot Spots arent
Aug 18 15:25:54 <spykid> morrildl: So what do you announce today?
Aug 18 15:26:03 <anno^da_> haha
Aug 18 15:26:33 <spykid> anno^da_: I know he won't say anything til...
Aug 18 15:26:53 <anno^da_> ;)
Aug 18 15:27:10 <anno^da_> I tried it with romainguy but he refused as well :) (like on every monday :D)
Aug 18 15:27:15 <spykid> anno^da_: He's up early, this means something ;)
Aug 18 15:27:25 <jasta> early?  it's 8:30?
Aug 18 15:27:30 <michaelnovakjr_> its not early :)
Aug 18 15:27:30 <jasta> he's still at home too, i'm sure.
Aug 18 15:27:35 <anno^da_> :D
Aug 18 15:27:41 <anno^da_> Early is 6 am
Aug 18 15:27:45 <michaelnovakjr_> he's probably going to announce that he can't say anything :)
Aug 18 15:27:58 <alex2308> im off, l8er dudez
Aug 18 15:28:17 <jasta> anno^da_: early is in the office at 8:30, instead of sitting in your bathrobe at home :)
Aug 18 15:28:54 <spykid> jasta: And I thought googler live at the googleplex :D
Aug 18 15:29:55 * anno^da_ wants to announce the new "Monsters of Liedermaching" cd for the german readers here. :P
Aug 18 15:38:38 <jasta> i have to run to work
Aug 18 15:38:42 <jasta> but i'd like to leave you all with a topic
Aug 18 15:39:15 <jasta> why are certain nationalities overrepresented in open source?  for example, Americans and Germans.  talk amongst yourselves.
Aug 18 15:39:43 <michaelnovakjr_> that was quick :)
Aug 18 15:39:58 <morrildl> well, I need a topic for a little while :)
Aug 18 15:40:02 <jasta> it's something i've always been curious about
Aug 18 15:40:37 <michaelnovakjr_> everyone loves open source.... but not everyone is a contributor....
Aug 18 15:40:38 <morrildl> jasta: I think you forgot certain south american countries though, e.g. Brazil
Aug 18 15:40:54 <jasta> i didn't list all the ones i know.
Aug 18 15:40:58 <michaelnovakjr_> like those who use open source software and then release their product closed
Aug 18 15:41:00 <jasta> just an example of two.
Aug 18 15:41:10 <morrildl> also I think it would be interesting to see a breakdown of Lines of Code contributed
Aug 18 15:41:14 <tethridge> morrildl, how about "See we weren't lying...   ...<link to Tmobile article announcing android phone>"
Aug 18 15:41:32 <morrildl> maybe, say, India comes out on top in LOC, they just don't get credit (for example, I have no idea)
Aug 18 15:41:41 <jasta> morrildl: in my [vast] experience, Germans in particular stand out.
Aug 18 15:42:00 <michaelnovakjr_> morrildl: i haven't met too many Indian open source gurus
Aug 18 15:42:07 <morrildl> jasta: I thought this was the topic you were /leaving/ us with ;)
Aug 18 15:42:13 <jasta> do realize i said overrepresented.
Aug 18 15:42:19 <jasta> morrildl: im putting my shoes on right now :)
Aug 18 15:42:43 <jasta> i don't mind whether or not you find folks from other countries contributing.  i mean, proportionate to population, why are some countries overrepresented?
Aug 18 15:43:16 <jasta> for example, India is not overrepresented.  it has significantly more people, and far fewer contributors.
Aug 18 15:43:20 <anno^da_> Does the FCC report mean that there will be no GPS? Or wont these things be tested by the FCC ?
Aug 18 15:44:19 <cutmasta> anno^da_, i thought the same thing
Aug 18 15:45:18 <tethridge> it has to have GPS to be taken seriously
Aug 18 15:45:23 <cutmasta> yap
Aug 18 15:45:37 <cutmasta> without GPS all the cool location based things will not work
Aug 18 15:45:41 <michaelnovakjr_> if Google would open their damn mouth there wouldn't be so many rumors
Aug 18 15:46:27 <spykid> anno^da_: The 7225 SOC - and this one was named by Quallcomm as target - has GPS buillt in
Aug 18 16:15:29 <tric> oh, eclipse found updates for android dev tools?
Aug 18 16:15:55 <tric> which needs sdk 0.9? haha
Aug 18 16:17:44 <jsilvaa> roll?
Aug 18 16:18:10 <jsilvaa> oops wrong window
Aug 18 16:18:39 <morrildl> tric: pretend you don't see that for about another 20 minutes
Aug 18 16:19:09 <tric> morrildl: i cant, i cannot work anymore because of that ;)
Aug 18 16:19:10 <ttuttle> morrildl: wait what?
Aug 18 16:19:21 <tric> .o(ok, i could use the adt.zip but...)
Aug 18 16:19:41 <muthu> any big news today?
Aug 18 16:20:00 <tric> muthu: well, new eclipse tools on update site.
Aug 18 16:20:07 <muthu> woah
Aug 18 16:20:14 <muthu> so the public sdk is coming ;)
Aug 18 16:20:20 <tric> so i bet its either a big error or sdk 0.9_r1 is very soon
Aug 18 16:20:31 <ttuttle> =D
Aug 18 16:20:37 * ttuttle tingles with excitement!
Aug 18 16:20:43 <muthu> great!
Aug 18 16:20:54 * morrildl discreetly shuffles  away from ttuttle
Aug 18 16:21:18 <ttuttle> morrildl: :-P
Aug 18 16:21:32 <morrildl> ttuttle: well, you might explode
Aug 18 16:21:33 <morrildl> ;)
Aug 18 16:21:37 * ttuttle won't explode, don't worry.
Aug 18 16:21:49 <morrildl> like that scene from Ghostbusters in the elevator
Aug 18 16:22:18 <buster> hilight!
Aug 18 16:23:02 <muthu> finally we can get back to some android work :)
Aug 18 16:24:33 <tric> muthu: but dont update yet, unless you dont wanna work anymore
Aug 18 16:25:07 <muthu> hopefully the sdk follows soon
Aug 18 16:26:30 * morrildl twiddles his thumbs
Aug 18 16:30:56 <michaelnovakjr_> ??
Aug 18 16:31:43 <tric> ah, nice. manifest error parsing works now
Aug 18 16:32:08 <michaelnovakjr_> ?
Aug 18 16:32:10 <tric> and actually found errors
Aug 18 16:32:43 <michaelnovakjr_> is that because of magic or am i missing something?
Aug 18 16:32:52 <tric> im trying dev tools 0.7_ somthing
Aug 18 16:33:10 <michaelnovakjr_> what is that?
Aug 18 16:33:34 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: ADT 0.7.1
Aug 18 16:33:48 <michaelnovakjr_> ah, i don't use eclips
Aug 18 16:35:24 <michaelnovakjr_> does that come with an SDK or are we really just messing with developers now
Aug 18 16:35:40 <tric> hehe. no sdk yet. ;)
Aug 18 16:35:51 <morrildl> hehehehehe
Aug 18 16:36:10 <michaelnovakjr_> its like throwing a dog a piece of rubber meat
Aug 18 16:36:25 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: chewy!
Aug 18 16:36:35 <morrildl> nom nom nom
Aug 18 16:36:47 <michaelnovakjr_> morrildl: until the dog realizes its rubber and eats your ankle :)
Aug 18 16:36:55 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: word
Aug 18 16:37:54 <morrildl> I actually have seen rubber steaks as squeaky dog chew toys
Aug 18 16:38:01 <morrildl> I thought it was hysterically cruel
Aug 18 16:38:07 <michaelnovakjr_> indeed
Aug 18 16:38:27 <michaelnovakjr_> if i was ever thrown one of those i'd shove it right back down that person's throat!!
Aug 18 16:38:31 <morrildl> heh
Aug 18 16:38:50 <michaelnovakjr_> my uncles dog gets pissed at those
Aug 18 16:39:25 <cutmasta> This version of ADT requires the Android SDK version 0.9_r1
Aug 18 16:39:27 <cutmasta> hm
Aug 18 16:39:38 <cutmasta> ok i have to wait
Aug 18 16:39:39 <cutmasta> :)
Aug 18 16:39:42 <michaelnovakjr_> cutmasta: its a piece of rubber meat
Aug 18 16:41:29 <tric> mirrildl: 20min are over! ;)
Aug 18 16:42:33 <morrildl> tric: I said about 20 :)
Aug 18 16:43:42 <michaelnovakjr_> what's in 20 minutes?
Aug 18 16:44:09 <michaelnovakjr_> lunch?
Aug 18 16:44:20 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: don't tempt me
Aug 18 16:44:56 <michaelnovakjr_> yea? morrildl is a quarter to 10 where you are... didn't have your wheaties this morning? :)
Aug 18 16:45:03 <michaelnovakjr_> its*
Aug 18 16:45:17 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: no you were right, actually, I turn 10 in a few months
Aug 18 16:45:39 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Aug 18 16:46:13 <SanMehat> re:
Aug 18 16:50:22 <michaelnovakjr_> Do you think that every time someone proclaims some new phone to be an “iPhone killer” Apple engineers tape it up in their lockers, Michael Phelps-style, for motivation? I do.
Aug 18 16:50:31 <tric> haha http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=792
Aug 18 16:50:51 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Aug 18 16:51:41 <AttractiveApe> heh, I could see that happening.
Aug 18 17:20:45 <ttuttle> Any news on the SDK?
Aug 18 17:21:09 <michaelnovakjr_> nada
Aug 18 17:21:15 <ttuttle> :-(
Aug 18 17:23:14 <tric> at least some excuse now not to work ;)
Aug 18 17:23:45 <michaelnovakjr_> but there's no sdk... so what is the excuse?
Aug 18 17:25:24 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr_: The excuse is that you're now coding for an SDK believed by some to be obsolete.
Aug 18 17:25:34 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr_: ;-)
Aug 18 17:25:49 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Aug 18 17:35:02 <plusminus_> "sdk v0.9_r1" I'd be sooo excited if my laptop didn't crash today...
Aug 18 17:35:43 <cutmasta> :)
Aug 18 17:35:52 <tric> plusminus: not yet, or did i muss something?
Aug 18 17:36:29 <plusminus_> not yet but you probably know that groups-entry
Aug 18 17:37:13 <plusminus_> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=792
Aug 18 17:37:28 <tric> yeah. 18:15:29 < tric> oh, eclipse found updates for android dev tools?
Aug 18 17:37:32 <michaelnovakjr_> they are just messing with us
Aug 18 17:37:34 <tric> but 18:18:39 <@fn~morrildl> tric: pretend you don't see that for about another 20 minutes
Aug 18 17:37:44 <michaelnovakjr_> that was about an hour or two ago :)
Aug 18 17:37:54 <tric> and those 20min lasting 80 now!
Aug 18 17:37:55 <michaelnovakjr_> i bet they'll reverse that
Aug 18 17:38:19 <plusminus_> !§/%??????§=%/&?/&  Noooo o_O I hate my crashed laptop
Aug 18 17:38:52 <tethridge> michaelnovakjr, nah, morrildl said to wait.  He wouldn't have said a word if it was a mistake
Aug 18 17:39:12 <plusminus_> could also be
Aug 18 17:40:10 <tethridge> I mean, if T-mobile is shipping in September, I imagine the api is about as stable as it is going to get.  QA has to have the version their shipping by now
Aug 18 17:40:40 <michaelnovakjr_> that's just a rumor though :)
Aug 18 17:40:53 <tric> well. its stable since months, you only have to declare all non working parts as not supported ;)
Aug 18 17:41:04 <plusminus_> :D
Aug 18 17:43:28 <plusminus_> i guess 20min x6 ~ 2 hours
Aug 18 17:44:50 <c4software> hi everyone
Aug 18 17:45:16 <jasta> yawn
Aug 18 17:46:40 <plusminus_> morrildl: so I guess there will be a new SDk today
Aug 18 17:47:47 <michaelnovakjr_> plusminus_: it would be times 7 :)
Aug 18 17:47:54 <jasta> i am very nervous...
Aug 18 17:48:08 <jasta> just 3 or 4 days ago i was fighting to get a critical new feature in the next SDK...
Aug 18 17:48:18 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta someone stalking you?
Aug 18 17:48:21 <jasta> if they release today, i'm going to bet they didn't include it *cries*
Aug 18 17:48:35 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_: hmm, probably, but why do you say that/
Aug 18 17:48:52 <michaelnovakjr_> you said you were nervous :)
Aug 18 17:49:05 <jasta> oh yeah
Aug 18 17:49:11 <jasta> i meant about the MediaPlayer brokenness
Aug 18 17:49:14 <tethridge> jasta, you're screwed
Aug 18 17:49:19 <jasta> i figured as much
Aug 18 17:49:42 <jasta> well, maybe five can work on "1.1" :(
Aug 18 17:49:47 <michaelnovakjr_> :(
Aug 18 17:50:10 <tethridge> mark Sept. 2009 on your calendar
Aug 18 17:50:47 <romainguy> re
Aug 18 17:55:07 <tric> ahh. ok, now you can release it! ;)
Aug 18 17:57:11 <davidw> cool, the download link works!
Aug 18 17:57:26 <davidw> <nelson>ha ha</nelson> you looked
Aug 18 17:57:44 <michaelnovakjr_> moron
Aug 18 18:10:16 <davidw> mona
Aug 18 18:40:07 <plusminus_> I think I'm getting a heart-attack...
Aug 18 18:41:10 <tric> why? still nothing happening
Aug 18 18:41:11 <cutmasta> plusminus_, y?
Aug 18 18:43:21 <plusminus_> still nothing happening
Aug 18 18:43:51 <plusminus_> you'll see my explode in endless cheer if I see something :)
Aug 18 18:44:46 <tric> next week
Aug 18 18:45:10 <plusminus_> 18:18:39 <@fn~morrildl> tric: pretend you don't see that for about another 20 minutes
Aug 18 18:45:30 <yakischloba> Did I miss something this morning?
Aug 18 18:45:44 <plusminus_> http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/t/e424500647c85537
Aug 18 18:46:15 <yakischloba> lol
Aug 18 18:46:26 <yakischloba> _the suspense_..
Aug 18 18:46:27 <plusminus_> ?
Aug 18 18:46:57 <plusminus_> ah :)
Aug 18 18:49:12 <zhobbs> Ohhhhh
Aug 18 18:49:25 <zhobbs> that just threw me off when setting up the eclipse plugin on my new computer :)
Aug 18 18:49:40 <plusminus_> my laptop crashed just today
Aug 18 18:49:51 <plusminus_> seems like someone up there hates me...
Aug 18 18:52:25 <plusminus_> omg, how long can 20 dog-minutes be...
Aug 18 18:58:43 <jasonchen> http://bit.ly/new-android-sdk
Aug 18 18:59:42 <f00f-> :D
Aug 18 18:59:56 <zhobbs> nice!
Aug 18 19:00:00 <NiZoX> :D
Aug 18 19:01:07 <tethridge> yeah!
Aug 18 19:01:12 <plusminus_> WOHOOOOOOOO
Aug 18 19:01:15 <romainguy__> I can finally talk about the shortcuts feature in Home :)
Aug 18 19:01:41 <plusminus_> its on the way...
Aug 18 19:01:49 <AttractiveApe> hmm, cool.
Aug 18 19:02:21 <_avatar> ooooh, nice
Aug 18 19:02:53 <AttractiveApe> jasta: happy?
Aug 18 19:03:06 <jasta> let's see if the MediaPlayer is still broken
Aug 18 19:03:18 <zhobbs> jasta, it's better
Aug 18 19:03:27 <jasta> ive seen 85772, it is still not what i require.
Aug 18 19:03:32 <plusminus_> unzipping.....
Aug 18 19:03:35 <zhobbs> oh ok
Aug 18 19:04:46 * NiZoX download
Aug 18 19:06:36 <jasta> ohh, a dev roadmap
Aug 18 19:06:42 * jasta takes a moment to digest
Aug 18 19:06:55 <Espenfjo> ah, nice
Aug 18 19:08:39 <jasta> how come i still see m5-rc15 as the latest?
Aug 18 19:08:51 <plusminus_> neat home romainguy
Aug 18 19:08:56 <jasta> hmm, it was cached :)
Aug 18 19:09:23 * jasta is very excited
Aug 18 19:10:15 <jasta> sigh, as i expected, the MediaPlayer is still not what i need it to be
Aug 18 19:10:16 <romainguy__> plusminus_: thanks, but the most exciting part is that any of your apps can expose shortcuts to be installed in Home
Aug 18 19:10:29 <romainguy__> and a shortcut is just an intent with a custom icon
Aug 18 19:10:35 <romainguy__> so you can do pretty cool stuff with this :)
Aug 18 19:11:52 <morrildl> jasta: you wanted to be able to play-while-downloading right?
Aug 18 19:11:55 <f00f-> romainguy__: so apps need to explicitly request Home showing?
Aug 18 19:12:02 <romainguy__> no
Aug 18 19:12:14 <romainguy__> you can just declare in your manifest that your app can create shortcuts for Home
Aug 18 19:12:29 <romainguy__> then in Home, when you press menu > add or you long press the wallpaper, you'll see your app listed
Aug 18 19:12:45 <romainguy__> that's how we created the ability to have shortcuts to a contact for instance
Aug 18 19:16:19 <morrildl> heh
Aug 18 19:16:31 <morrildl> announce an SDK and it suddenly gets very quiet
Aug 18 19:16:43 <yakischloba> whoooaa
Aug 18 19:16:56 <jasonchen> morrildl: that's the sound of thousands of browsers downloading
Aug 18 19:17:03 <romainguy__> morrildl: they're too busy watching the download progress
Aug 18 19:18:18 <cutmasta> nice wallpaper :)
Aug 18 19:18:19 <cutmasta> btw
Aug 18 19:18:20 <cutmasta> hehe
Aug 18 19:18:24 <romainguy__> I know :)
Aug 18 19:19:35 <jasta> morrildl: play while saving.
Aug 18 19:19:47 <plusminus_> StreetView, awesome :)
Aug 18 19:20:02 <jasta> whoa, that home is crazy :)
Aug 18 19:21:59 <jasta> ok, i officially like this way better than 85772 ;)
Aug 18 19:22:12 <plusminus_> me too
Aug 18 19:23:15 <yakischloba> jasta: worth continuing development I take it?
Aug 18 19:24:57 <morrildl> jasta: yeah you're not the only one who wants that feature.  Unfortunately it turns out the libpv native infrastructure can't easily support it in time for 1.0
Aug 18 19:25:15 <jasta> morrildl: *what*!?
Aug 18 19:25:27 <morrildl> jasta: the best workaround we have is to run a small HTTP server, and tell MediaPlayer to play a URI like http://127.0.0.1:8080/something
Aug 18 19:25:38 <jasta> are you serious?
Aug 18 19:25:50 <morrildl> jasta: ?
Aug 18 19:26:13 <jasta> this is a mobile phone we're talking about, right?
Aug 18 19:26:20 <yakischloba> life is no longer worth living.
Aug 18 19:26:28 <zhobbs> how can I send an sms via command line?
Aug 18 19:26:53 <michaelnovakjr_> zhobbs: telnet localhost 5554
Aug 18 19:27:04 <michaelnovakjr_> zhobbs: then sms send _number_ _message_
Aug 18 19:27:19 <morrildl> jasta: yeah, there's some overhead involved, unfortunately :(
Aug 18 19:27:20 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta: not happy ?
Aug 18 19:27:34 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta, am i still getting an iPhone?
Aug 18 19:27:51 <yakischloba> yeah im waiting for him to get over the mediaplayer thing as well ;)
Aug 18 19:28:01 <romainguy__> morrildl: that said a simple HTTP server is probably nothing compared to playing a freakin' video for instance :))
Aug 18 19:28:05 <zhobbs> michaelnovakjr_: thanks
Aug 18 19:28:11 <michaelnovakjr_> zhobbs: np
Aug 18 19:28:43 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_: well, i like it better than 85772...
Aug 18 19:28:57 <jasta> but it's uncertain if i will prepare Five for this release.
Aug 18 19:29:04 <umdk1d3> YAY! /me hugs new sdk
Aug 18 19:29:06 <michaelnovakjr_> that sucks
Aug 18 19:29:06 <morrildl> jasta: the slightly more detailed explanation is that the libpv media-playing stuff is doing all the network accesses, totally independent of Dalvik
Aug 18 19:29:16 <umdk1d3> it looks so sexy  ^.^
Aug 18 19:29:22 <jasta> morrildl: I know that it's native.  That isn't an excuse.
Aug 18 19:29:27 <umdk1d3> and we have a clock now! =D
Aug 18 19:29:41 <romainguy__> umdk1d3: just drop it in the trash :p
Aug 18 19:29:47 <jasta> the pictures app accessed my picasa photos automatically
Aug 18 19:29:48 <anno^da_> new SDK is this real ?
Aug 18 19:29:49 <anno^da_> :P
Aug 18 19:29:56 <umdk1d3> whers the trash?  o.o
Aug 18 19:29:59 <morrildl> jasta: and unfortunately libpv itself doesn't expose an easy way to do that, so the feature got deferred until libpv can be improved
Aug 18 19:30:01 <romainguy__> umdk1d3: long press the clock
Aug 18 19:30:03 <romainguy__> you'll see
Aug 18 19:30:10 <umdk1d3> ohhhh there it is
Aug 18 19:30:16 <anno^da_> romainguy: you the surprise :P
Aug 18 19:30:24 <anno^da_> -you
Aug 18 19:30:28 <romainguy__> told you :))
Aug 18 19:30:41 <anno^da_> :D
Aug 18 19:30:50 <anno^da_> Thats why morrildl was up sooo early :D
Aug 18 19:30:52 <jasta> i am thankful we finally have some google apps to base UI guidelines on
Aug 18 19:30:55 <anno^da_> We guesses it :)
Aug 18 19:31:03 <anno^da_> guessed
Aug 18 19:31:07 <morrildl> also worth reading: http://code.google.com/android/roadmap.html
Aug 18 19:31:25 <jasta> morrildl: i am going to have to give this some consideration.  i do not want a difficult technology to implement being hampered by lame workarounds.
Aug 18 19:31:37 <jasta> Five is not trivial, and it rapes the CPU as it is.
Aug 18 19:31:40 <morrildl> jasta: *nod*  Let us know if we can help.
Aug 18 19:31:47 <jasta> you can help by bloody fixing it
Aug 18 19:32:05 <f00f-> simple, don't rape the CPU :)
Aug 18 19:32:07 * umdk1d3 goes to finish list tutorial on new sdk and release later today
Aug 18 19:32:27 <f00f-> dont you need other security privileges to run a socket server, though?
Aug 18 19:32:45 <romainguy__> no
Aug 18 19:33:02 <anno^da_> Should I have the heart to open my application in the new SDK ? *dithering*
Aug 18 19:33:12 <michaelnovakjr_> its awfully slow
Aug 18 19:33:15 <f00f-> so anyone from the operator's 10.x range can access a server on my mobile?
Aug 18 19:33:21 <umdk1d3> AWESOME desktop has FOLDERS  =D
Aug 18 19:33:42 <romainguy__> f00f-: just make the socket listen only to the localhost network interface
Aug 18 19:33:46 <morrildl> tric: so anyway, there
Aug 18 19:33:50 <umdk1d3> o.o "purchased pictures"
Aug 18 19:33:51 <romainguy__> there are some cool new dev tools too in this SDK
Aug 18 19:33:58 <morrildl> tric: slightly longer than 20 minutes ;)
Aug 18 19:34:20 <romainguy__> check out tools/ and the Eclipse plugin
Aug 18 19:34:32 * jasta is depressed :(
Aug 18 19:34:49 <zhobbs> jasta: you'll never be happy
Aug 18 19:35:19 <umdk1d3> jasta: to be honest some of the apps look rushed
Aug 18 19:35:32 <jasta> i would be happy if a major bug preventing proper design of my idea was gone.
Aug 18 19:35:33 <morrildl> yeah, for a good time open an XML layout file in Eclipse and check out the new UI tab
Aug 18 19:35:34 <umdk1d3> messaging needs some UI help
Aug 18 19:35:44 <romainguy__> morrildl: and draw9patch and hierarchyviewer :p
Aug 18 19:35:55 <morrildl> romainguy__: I was getting there ;)
Aug 18 19:36:19 <jasta> zhobbs: i'm impressed by the way this looks compared to 85772 especially.  and i'm sure once i dive in the new APIs will be nice.
Aug 18 19:36:23 <jasta> and dev tools, etc.
Aug 18 19:36:29 <jasta> and i'm sure loads of important bugs are fixed
Aug 18 19:36:29 <f00f-> "We regret to inform developers that Android 1.0 will not support 3.5" floppy disks."
Aug 18 19:36:39 <NiZoX> :((
Aug 18 19:36:41 <f00f-> i was hoping for that :/
Aug 18 19:36:49 <jasta> but the MediaPlayer the way it is may be a deal breaker for me.
Aug 18 19:36:54 <michaelnovakjr_> what the hell is up with the input?
Aug 18 19:37:11 <zhobbs> jasta: what's the prob with MediaPlayer?
Aug 18 19:37:24 <michaelnovakjr_> it sucks :)
Aug 18 19:37:25 <zhobbs> michaelnovakjr_: I noticed sometimes you need to be in landscape to enter text
Aug 18 19:37:27 <romainguy__> michaelnovakjr: ??
Aug 18 19:37:39 <michaelnovakjr_> romainguy__ can't type any text
Aug 18 19:37:55 <jasta> zhobbs: it cannot be fed from an arbitrary input source, nor can it be configured to store the streaming content.
Aug 18 19:38:05 <jasta> thus, Five's need to both stream and cache cannot be efficiently supported.
Aug 18 19:39:38 <f00f-> jasta: but your web server can simulate streaming
Aug 18 19:39:41 <jasta> the obvious work around is a local HTTP server, however as I said I already have fears that Five will be tough to make work well with such a limited CPU.
Aug 18 19:39:43 <f00f-> without storing it
Aug 18 19:39:44 <f00f-> right?
Aug 18 19:39:51 <jasta> A local HTTP server, and the overhead involved in extra copies of the data stream, may be too much.
Aug 18 19:40:06 <jasta> f00f-: what web server?  the remote end of Five?
Aug 18 19:40:06 <romainguy__> jasta: try and see :)
Aug 18 19:40:14 <michaelnovakjr_> its an improvement, but i wouldn't call it a 0.9
Aug 18 19:40:52 <f00f-> jasta the local one you need to hack iup
Aug 18 19:40:56 * cutmasta is interested in json and http api changes
Aug 18 19:41:01 <jasta> I just don't see why in 3 months you can't have just bloody fixed this.
Aug 18 19:41:23 <romainguy__> jasta: because it's not the only thing we had to work on
Aug 18 19:41:54 <NiZoX> "Screen locked" :D
Aug 18 19:42:26 <jasta> i knew this was going to happen
Aug 18 19:43:05 <davidw> morrildl, romainguy: congrats!
Aug 18 19:43:10 <morrildl> davidw: thanks :)
Aug 18 19:43:21 <jasta> after a fix was promised for 1.0 by dan, and yet no activity on the many bugs that relate to this...
Aug 18 19:43:24 <jasta> sigh
Aug 18 19:43:27 <plusminus_> Screenshots: http://www.anddev.org/fresh_android_sdk_released_sdk_v09_r1-t2707.html
Aug 18 19:43:36 <plusminus_> really nice :)
Aug 18 19:43:44 <plusminus_> !!!
Aug 18 19:43:53 <chomchom> oooh
Aug 18 19:44:00 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta, its definitely not a 0.9 release
Aug 18 19:44:09 <michaelnovakjr_> an improvement, but not 0.9
Aug 18 19:44:31 <cutmasta> remember its a beta
Aug 18 19:44:48 <jasta> is it going to be a beta 2 months from now when it runs on phones? :)
Aug 18 19:44:49 <cutmasta> i saw betas which were uglier
Aug 18 19:44:56 <michaelnovakjr_> usually you implement everything in a beta that will be 1.0 :)
Aug 18 19:44:57 <cutmasta> :)
Aug 18 19:45:05 <michaelnovakjr_> beta is testing
Aug 18 19:45:15 <cutmasta> yes
Aug 18 19:45:20 <cutmasta> feature complete
Aug 18 19:45:22 <tethridge> how do you lock the screen?
Aug 18 19:45:24 <tomgibara> romainguy__: morrildl: et.al: Thanks for the new SDK and accompanying information
Aug 18 19:45:27 <cutmasta> but with normal bugs in it
Aug 18 19:45:28 <michaelnovakjr_> cutmasta: you'd say this is feature complete?
Aug 18 19:45:33 <romainguy__> tomgibara: most welcome
Aug 18 19:45:37 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: http://code.google.com/android/roadmap.html -- see Naming and Compatibility
Aug 18 19:45:37 <cutmasta> not really, :)
Aug 18 19:45:52 <anno^da_> Apache HTTPClient installation upgraded to 4.x of that API; 3.x version is removed   <- Oh I'm sooo lucky not having taken the old 3.x version
Aug 18 19:45:57 <cutmasta> i would never buy a phone with this software on it
Aug 18 19:46:01 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: short version is that the "tools" are in beta, and the system image shipped with this SDK is "0.9" -- almost but not quite 1.0-final
Aug 18 19:46:09 <cutmasta> anno^da_, sounds cool
Aug 18 19:46:15 <cutmasta> i also rely on the http api
Aug 18 19:46:16 <jasta> i like a few of the subtle features in their media player
Aug 18 19:46:22 <jasta> i assume google doesn't mind if i lift them? :)
Aug 18 19:46:55 <romainguy__> remember you can replace any default app with your own :)
Aug 18 19:47:01 <romainguy__> even Home or the music player :p
Aug 18 19:47:06 <jasta> that's not what i meant
Aug 18 19:47:07 <anno^da_> HTTPClient 4.x removes multipart methods  <- oh god not really :/
Aug 18 19:47:22 <cutmasta> anno^da_, ??
Aug 18 19:47:29 <romainguy__> jasta: see this reply as a way to answer your question
Aug 18 19:48:04 <jasta> kind of a funny way to answer :)
Aug 18 19:48:13 <anno^da_> Well I needed the multipart messages to upload content.
Aug 18 19:48:13 <jasta> boo, music player crashed
Aug 18 19:48:27 <romainguy__> btw
Aug 18 19:48:37 <romainguy__> I'd be happy to receive feedback and  bugreports about http://code.google.com/android/reference/hierarchy-viewer.html on the external tracker
Aug 18 19:49:23 <f00f-> morrildl: is 0.9 binary compatible with 85772 ?
Aug 18 19:49:38 <morrildl> f00f-: I don't know, I haven't tested it
Aug 18 19:49:48 <romainguy__> f00f-: it *should* be but it might not be :)
Aug 18 19:49:53 <morrildl> it might be, but it's certainly not expected to be
Aug 18 19:49:57 <jasonchen> tethridge: press the power button to turn off the screen
Aug 18 19:49:58 <f00f-> ok i'll test it
Aug 18 19:50:20 <tethridge> ah
Aug 18 19:50:26 <jasta> *ohhhhh*
Aug 18 19:50:26 <jasta> very nice
Aug 18 19:50:29 <jasta> playlist drag and drop
Aug 18 19:50:33 <jasta> this is exactly something i wanted to support in Five
Aug 18 19:50:54 <morrildl> oh, also thanks to romainguy__, the old Home screen from M5 is included as a sample now
Aug 18 19:50:59 * umdk1d3 runs around hugging people randomly
Aug 18 19:51:04 <morrildl> not that anyone would want to USE it, but it does show how to make a Home screen replacement
Aug 18 19:51:32 <romainguy__> it's also a good API demo
Aug 18 19:51:51 <romainguy__> it shows how to create custom layouts, use custom attributes, use animations, layout animations, etc.
Aug 18 19:52:22 <tomgibara> Are there any plans to include support for direct webcam into the emulator? It's something that lots of people want to do.
Aug 18 19:52:26 <tethridge> power button isn't working for me
Aug 18 19:52:36 <jasta> i am really happy you guys included a mediaplayer.
Aug 18 19:52:45 <jasta> this will help me design mine a lot :)
Aug 18 19:52:49 <romainguy__> ^^
Aug 18 19:52:57 <NiZoX> street view is beautiful :x
Aug 18 19:53:03 <jasta> but seriously, ugh, it is hard to get excited without the mediaplayer working right
Aug 18 19:53:28 <jasta> ohhh, that is a nice touch on the media player main screen
Aug 18 19:53:30 <jasta> i really like that
Aug 18 19:53:38 <romainguy__> what is?
Aug 18 19:53:39 <jasta> where it shows the song you are currently playing
Aug 18 19:53:42 <romainguy__> ah yes
Aug 18 19:53:43 <jasta> i think it would be nice to have that for all screens though
Aug 18 19:53:50 <morrildl> tomgibara: that's on the roadmap, definitely. I don't know offhand where it is on the priority list
Aug 18 19:53:51 <jasta> that was something i wrestled with for a long time
Aug 18 19:54:08 <romainguy__> jasta: see also how you can create shortcuts to your playslist on the Home screen, you may want to provide similar feature ;-)
Aug 18 19:54:25 <jasonchen> jasta: the media plaer should also put a little notification up in the status bar when it's playing
Aug 18 19:54:26 <jasta> yes, i will lift a lot from this, actually
Aug 18 19:54:36 <jasta> it is all the best practice stuff that i was begging for :)
Aug 18 19:54:47 <jasta> i can't design UIs well hehe
Aug 18 19:54:48 <yakischloba> sounds like its time to resume development
Aug 18 19:54:50 <chomchom> I'm very happy you guys have got a public facing roadmap now.
Aug 18 19:55:23 <tomgibara> morrildl: fyi, judging by the emails I receive and the number of people who download my shim code, it's a much wanted feature
Aug 18 19:55:33 <dmoffett> Will Android have more applications from Google when it ships?
Aug 18 19:55:40 <chomchom> The greatest win is the smile on little jasta's face.
Aug 18 19:55:44 <yakischloba> so uhh, is anyone able to explain why everything was so silly secretive up until now, and whether or not there will be more community involvement from here on out?
Aug 18 19:55:53 <jasta> chomchom: i'm still undecided whether Five will target 1.0.
Aug 18 19:56:00 <romainguy__> dmoffett: this is just the SDK
Aug 18 19:56:13 <jasta> i am *NOT* excited about the idea of writing a local HTTP server to make streaming work, poorly.
Aug 18 19:56:24 <chomchom> jasta: it must have been because of your gripe last night, they were like "We've got to help jasta out"
Aug 18 19:56:31 <anno^da_> Is there an example how to get the multipart messages done ? I havent really found one withe HTTPMime or Mime4j
Aug 18 19:56:32 <SanMehat> lol
Aug 18 19:57:18 <romainguy__> morrildl: emails sent from the android-* mailing lists still announce the M5 SDK in the signature ;-)
Aug 18 19:57:29 <morrildl> romainguy__: there is a signature?
Aug 18 19:57:35 <romainguy__> yes
Aug 18 19:57:42 <yakischloba> Anyone care to comment?
Aug 18 19:57:43 <jasta> romainguy__: i would like to have a discussion about some of this though...
Aug 18 19:57:43 <romainguy__> let me forward you an email
Aug 18 19:57:51 <romainguy__> jasta: about what?
Aug 18 19:58:08 <jasta> about what would be the right course of action with some of these Music features...
Aug 18 19:58:16 <tomgibara> The dialer has a bug, where do we file that?
Aug 18 19:58:21 <jasta> i assume this app will not be open sourced?  what other licensing can i assume about the content?
Aug 18 19:58:25 <romainguy__> tomgibara: the tracker
Aug 18 19:58:31 <jasta> like, i like your default no album cover image a lot :)
Aug 18 19:58:35 <jasta> i want to just lift it
Aug 18 19:58:35 <romainguy__> jasta: everything in the SDK should be open sourced
Aug 18 19:58:39 <romainguy__> Dan can confirm
Aug 18 19:58:46 <morrildl> romainguy__: fixed :)
Aug 18 19:58:49 <krosaen> tomgibara: what is it?
Aug 18 19:58:51 <tomgibara> romainguy__: thanks
Aug 18 19:59:05 <morrildl> jasta: no, that's one of the core apps, it will be open sourced
Aug 18 19:59:14 <jasta> excellent
Aug 18 19:59:24 <jasta> i'm just gonna rip it off then :P
Aug 18 19:59:29 <morrildl> jasta: feel free :)
Aug 18 19:59:32 <romainguy__> note that this SDK is "old" for us and we did fix many many many bugs since then :p
Aug 18 19:59:35 <jasta> i like a lot of the way you guys solved problems in this
Aug 18 19:59:44 <krosaen> tomgibara: file bugs here: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
Aug 18 19:59:46 <morrildl> romainguy__: it's not that old :P
Aug 18 19:59:53 <tomgibara> krosaen: Start typing in a phone number (say 3 characters) using keyboard - not touch - move the cursor to the start of the phone number and type some more
Aug 18 19:59:59 <morrildl> re: bugs -- note that we need to do a massive bug scrub
Aug 18 20:00:02 <romainguy__> morrildl: in number of changes or days? :)
Aug 18 20:00:04 <jasta> i love the dragging thing
Aug 18 20:00:07 <tomgibara> Lots of extraneous hyphens are inserted
Aug 18 20:00:15 <morrildl> that IS the right place to put bugs, don't be deterred by the fact that it needs updating
Aug 18 20:00:21 * morrildl goes to find the QA guys :)
Aug 18 20:00:50 <tomgibara> morrildl: I just wasn't sure what the scope of the tracker was
Aug 18 20:00:51 <zhobbs> jasta: what's the dragging thing?
Aug 18 20:01:02 <f00f-> what happened to HELLO_ ?
Aug 18 20:01:43 <romainguy__> gone
Aug 18 20:01:47 <jasta> and thank god :)
Aug 18 20:01:49 <SanMehat> it's Ghandi
Aug 18 20:01:49 <jasta> that was ugly hehe
Aug 18 20:01:57 <jasta> i love the A N D R O I D _ thing better
Aug 18 20:02:01 <f00f-> looked better than ANDROID
Aug 18 20:02:02 <jasta> i hope it stays, but i dont think it will :(
Aug 18 20:02:32 <jasta> morrildl: does the mediaplayer at least support seeking on HTTP streams?
Aug 18 20:02:39 <zhobbs> jasta:  yes
Aug 18 20:02:52 <SanMehat> f00f-: re: nice nick ;)
Aug 18 20:02:52 <jasta> zhobbs: does it use ranged gets to seek forward?
Aug 18 20:03:07 <zhobbs> dunno
Aug 18 20:03:16 <f00f-> :D
Aug 18 20:04:01 <jasta> i love that you guys basically made icons for me :)
Aug 18 20:04:13 <jasta> the inclusion of this music player app is a big win for me
Aug 18 20:04:22 <jasta> it will accelerate my development immensely
Aug 18 20:04:40 <SanMehat> yayyyy
Aug 18 20:04:44 <SanMehat> :)
Aug 18 20:06:03 <tomgibara> Is there any significance to the clock being made in sweden?
Aug 18 20:06:35 <morrildl> tomgibara: :)
Aug 18 20:06:41 <SanMehat> haha
Aug 18 20:06:46 <romainguy> could be ^^
Aug 18 20:06:51 <tomgibara> ?
Aug 18 20:07:01 <tomgibara> Perhaps I'll work it out sometime
Aug 18 20:07:07 <jasta> still though, god damn you guys and that mediaplayer api issue
Aug 18 20:07:30 <morrildl> tomgibara: well, TAT (who designed the UI) are a Swedish company
Aug 18 20:07:34 <chomchom> Thank the heavens that the LogCat error view now scrolls to the width of the error
Aug 18 20:07:39 <tomgibara> ah
Aug 18 20:07:47 <morrildl> tomgibara: but bsaically it's just a very well-known clock design, whose name I can't remember
Aug 18 20:07:51 <morrildl> jasonchen might know
Aug 18 20:08:17 <tomgibara> Another question, should the google search work?
Aug 18 20:08:18 <jasta> it is slow to swithc orientation.  is that something you guys are working on?
Aug 18 20:08:25 <f00f-> i cant tell if it's missing the umlauts on the O or not
Aug 18 20:08:28 <umdk1d3> hmm socketexceptions  :/
Aug 18 20:08:35 <morrildl> jasta: it's not slow as much as that's a debounce thing
Aug 18 20:08:36 <romainguy__> switching orientation is very fast on real hardware
Aug 18 20:08:53 <jasta> morrildl: what do you mean by debounce?
Aug 18 20:08:56 <morrildl> there is some intentional delay to make sure you really did mean it, and are not goign to put the orietation back
Aug 18 20:08:58 <romainguy__> and it's also very fast on my emulator
Aug 18 20:09:09 <morrildl> at least, there was at one point
Aug 18 20:09:35 <romainguy__> also applications can go a long way to make orientation change faster
Aug 18 20:09:44 <jasta> ok, ok, i will admit.  this may have convinced me to keep going ;)
Aug 18 20:09:52 <romainguy__> for instance I did a LOT of work in Home to make it change orientation very quickly
Aug 18 20:09:57 <chab7> hi
Aug 18 20:10:02 <SanMehat> jasta: we're *all* working very hard :)
Aug 18 20:10:03 <umdk1d3> lol jasta you seem emo sometimes  :P  j/k
Aug 18 20:10:24 <chomchom> When I try to launch my app on it I get a lot of errors about: 08-18 21:00:18.828: ERROR/Database(54): Failure 8 (attempt to write a readonly database) on 0x23ec70 when executing 'BEGIN EXCLUSIVE;'
Aug 18 20:10:32 <jasta> now i dont know where in the hell ia m going to find the time :)
Aug 18 20:10:40 <chomchom> Is this because of some tighter access restrictions?
Aug 18 20:10:46 <romainguy__> chomchom: that's a bug we fixed after the SDK was cut
Aug 18 20:12:01 <romainguy__> that was a nasty one as well
Aug 18 20:12:15 <jasta> i dont get where the album covers come from in the media player.  the file itself or is this some online trickery so seamless i can't detect it?
Aug 18 20:12:22 <umdk1d3> o.o   ERROR/OSNetworkSystem(497): unknown socket error -1
Aug 18 20:12:23 <romainguy__> they come from the files
Aug 18 20:12:31 <tomgibara> romainguy__: is the google search from home supposed to work?
Aug 18 20:12:36 <SanMehat> jasta: In some cases the covers are embedded in the media itself I believe
Aug 18 20:12:37 <tomgibara> It doesn't for me
Aug 18 20:12:41 <morrildl> jasta: I'm told they are encoded in the MP3s
Aug 18 20:12:45 <romainguy__> tomgibara: yes, but it was buggy in your release, got fixed :)
Aug 18 20:12:53 <tomgibara> okay
Aug 18 20:12:53 <umdk1d3> tomgibara: working for me here
Aug 18 20:13:09 <morrildl> umdk1d3: you need to request permission to access the network now
Aug 18 20:13:12 <jasta> morrildl: well normally they can be, but it's not a very common practice to do so.
Aug 18 20:13:14 <chomchom> romainguy: so what was the bug about then?
Aug 18 20:13:16 <morrildl> there is a new <users-permission> for it
Aug 18 20:13:17 <chomchom> http://pastebin.com/m7628df6c
Aug 18 20:13:18 <umdk1d3> morrildl: aha!  =D
Aug 18 20:13:19 <romainguy__> jasta: since when?
Aug 18 20:13:39 <jasta> romainguy__: Only iTunes AFAIK, actually rewrites MP3s with this data.
Aug 18 20:13:48 <romainguy__> it doesn't automatically
Aug 18 20:13:54 <romainguy__> only if you drop the image in the right place
Aug 18 20:14:01 <jasta> most other players just read it if its there, otherwise go out to amazon
Aug 18 20:14:12 <jasta> but Amazon does have legal restriction shere (you can't use them at all)
Aug 18 20:14:12 <romainguy__> maybe I'm biased because I've always embedded it in my mp3 files
Aug 18 20:14:20 <umdk1d3> jasta: amarok offers to inject covers into the id3v2 tags for you
Aug 18 20:14:39 <jasta> FYI, if anyone's curious, Amazon has strict licensing on their media and services which bars mobile applications from using it.
Aug 18 20:15:01 <tomgibara> Okay, another possible bug (but may be irrelevant): Go to the picture app. Hit the dial button and press back - the placeholder animation is distorted
Aug 18 20:15:08 <umdk1d3> yea  :/  /me shakes fist at amazon
Aug 18 20:15:39 <jasta> Five even crosses the boundary, but I think I hit on technical/legal gray area in how I use it.
Aug 18 20:15:54 <jasta> Last.fm has an agreement with Amazon to portal some of their content.
Aug 18 20:16:05 <jasta> And I access it through the Last.fm portal, which has no such restriction on usage of its data.
Aug 18 20:16:07 <romainguy__> tomgibara: got fixed
Aug 18 20:16:23 <tomgibara> romainguy__: cool
Aug 18 20:16:42 <romainguy__> as I said, this SDK is "old" :)
Aug 18 20:16:51 * jasta really tears into the music app
Aug 18 20:16:59 <tomgibara> I'm only asking so I know what to bother reporting
Aug 18 20:16:59 <jasta> you guys solved basically every UI problem i had left unresolved.
Aug 18 20:17:05 <jasta> that is so awesome
Aug 18 20:17:28 <romainguy__> tomgibara: and I thank you for that :)
Aug 18 20:17:29 <jasta> my favorite feature you guys tackled that i couldn't think of a way to resolve was to show the number of songs and albums under the appropriate headings so the user could easily detect when they don't have complete albums and the like
Aug 18 20:18:32 <zhobbs> romainguy__: why no more "@android:drawable/empty" ?
Aug 18 20:18:34 <jasta> i wrestled with how to do that for a long time, but i like this approach.
Aug 18 20:19:04 <romainguy__> zhobbs: @android:drawable/transparent
Aug 18 20:19:13 <zhobbs> k
Aug 18 20:19:14 <chomchom> romainguy__:  you mentioned that you recognized a bug where upon start up the adb would spew out messages about: "attempt to write a readonly database: DELETE FROM crashes WHERE _id IN (SELECT _id FROM crashes ORDER BY _id DESC LIMIT -1 OFFSET 24)" coudl you elaborate as to the cause and maybe where I should look to remediate the issue?
Aug 18 20:19:50 <romainguy__> I don't know about this one
Aug 18 20:20:03 <romainguy__> ah wait
Aug 18 20:20:05 <romainguy__> oops sorry
Aug 18 20:20:11 <romainguy__> that was another bug I was thinking of
Aug 18 20:20:17 <romainguy__> can you file a bug report on the tracker?
Aug 18 20:21:24 <chomchom> Is everyone else not seeing this? I've got it upon initial startup on Eclipse 3.4 on macOSX 10.5.4 (leopard)
Aug 18 20:21:46 <romainguy__> try to wipe your data?
Aug 18 20:22:02 <chomchom> Like the workspace meta data?
Aug 18 20:22:12 <romainguy__> the emulator's
Aug 18 20:22:14 <romainguy__> emulator -wipe-data
Aug 18 20:22:16 <morrildl> chomchom: no, run 'emulator -wipe-data' or check that option in the Eclipse launcher settings
Aug 18 20:22:33 <chomchom> ah yeah
Aug 18 20:24:04 <zhobbs> sed always messes me up, what's a sed script to recursively replace startSubActivity with startActivityForResult in all files?
Aug 18 20:24:30 <romainguy__> Search > Replace all? :)
Aug 18 20:24:56 <morrildl> sed 's/startSubActivity/starActivityForResult/'
Aug 18 20:25:08 <romainguy__> no /g?
Aug 18 20:25:22 <morrildl> romainguy__: only if you expect > 1 per line
Aug 18 20:25:38 <romainguy__> ah right
Aug 18 20:25:58 <zhobbs> ahh, was missing the last "/"
Aug 18 20:30:22 <zhobbs> for i in $( find -name *.java ); do sed -i 's/startSubActivity/startActivityForResult/' $i; done
Aug 18 20:31:24 <chomchom> I got past me errors of it complaining about the read only DB with a -wipe-data
Aug 18 20:33:02 <tomgibara> I can't be certain, but I think that the phone process started chewing up all of the emulated processor time
Aug 18 20:33:24 <tomgibara> I got a dialog offering to kill the process
Aug 18 20:33:39 <ttuttle> Any word on the SDK?
Aug 18 20:33:44 <SanMehat>  /topic
Aug 18 20:33:47 <ttuttle> Oh.
Aug 18 20:33:48 <ttuttle> SanMehat: lol
Aug 18 20:33:51 <umdk1d3> haha
Aug 18 20:33:54 <SanMehat> B E H O L D!
Aug 18 20:34:00 <herriojr> so, to get apps installed on the vogue, I just stick all the files I get from http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ on an sd card, right?
Aug 18 20:34:05 <ttuttle> Didn't I tell you guys Google wasn't lying? :-P
Aug 18 20:35:12 <morrildl> tomgibara: phone process is often shorthand for "something the system went haywire"
Aug 18 20:35:13 <herriojr> I don't need to unpack the filesystem onto the sdcard
Aug 18 20:35:29 <morrildl> tomgibara: we've fixed a lot of those, don't worry about it too much unless it's easily reproducible
Aug 18 20:35:37 <tomgibara> morrildl: sure
Aug 18 20:36:14 <herriojr> nvm
Aug 18 20:36:29 <chomchom> http://pastebin.com/meebab1e can everyone else see a youtube and welcome activity bookmark on their homesceen?
Aug 18 20:37:32 <AttractiveApe> herriojr: I'd wait a bit, Martin is probably going to be doing some new things.
Aug 18 20:38:09 <AttractiveApe> jasta: how did your crappy blog get #1 for the keyword 'android vogue'?
Aug 18 20:38:39 <ttuttle> SanMehat: /me is soooooooo happy.
Aug 18 20:38:46 <SanMehat> ;)
Aug 18 20:39:19 <jasta> AttractiveApe: almost certainly because i linked to martin and more succinctly discussed it.
Aug 18 20:40:29 <AttractiveApe> jasta: how does a CDMA phone have GPRS?
Aug 18 20:41:19 <jasta> did i write that?
Aug 18 20:43:02 <romainguy__> chomchom: these are Browser bookmarks
Aug 18 20:43:33 <jasta> romainguy__: so, i have an architectural question for you about the music app
Aug 18 20:43:46 <romainguy__> shoot
Aug 18 20:44:19 <jasta> romainguy__: when you load say the home screen and it shows that you are currently playing a song (or it doesn't if you're not), how is this working to hide that the UI could have been presented before it knew this question?
Aug 18 20:44:29 <jasta> i phrased that goofy i guess.
Aug 18 20:44:40 <romainguy__> yes it's a bit obscure :)
Aug 18 20:44:54 <jasta> what i mean is, does it bind and then wait for the player service connection before it presents any UI at all?
Aug 18 20:45:08 <romainguy__> you mean the first screen in the music app?
Aug 18 20:45:32 <jasta> or any of the screens.  obviously there is some service that tells it what's going on.  what song is playing, etc.
Aug 18 20:45:38 <jasta> it hooks that info into all of the screens
Aug 18 20:45:44 <jasta> but it can't know that in onCreate()
Aug 18 20:45:51 <jasta> it has to bind to a service, then some time later it knows that info
Aug 18 20:45:55 <jasta> so what is the policy for how to handle that in the UI?
Aug 18 20:46:07 <romainguy__> it does bind to a service in onCreate()
Aug 18 20:46:13 <jasta> it was a big dilemma i had with five.  since each activity has to make this connection, it seemed to make the UI feel slow to do this.
Aug 18 20:46:27 <jasta> romainguy__: right, but the basic UI needs to have the service connected before it can present anything, right?
Aug 18 20:46:44 <davidw> thing takes forever to boot...hope it's just the first time
Aug 18 20:46:53 <romainguy__> davidw: yes
Aug 18 20:46:54 <jasta> so in onCreate(), what does it draw?  does it hide everything, then show it all when the service is connected?
Aug 18 20:46:58 <romainguy__> no
Aug 18 20:47:04 <jasta> or rather, what does it setup to draw.
Aug 18 20:47:05 <romainguy__> it shows everything but the now playing at the bottom
Aug 18 20:47:14 <davidw> romainguy, hope real phones are faster/better at managing expectations
Aug 18 20:47:19 <romainguy__> and that gets displayed when the service callsback with a status
Aug 18 20:47:19 <jasta> romainguy__: and so the UI just changes before the user can notice?
Aug 18 20:47:27 <romainguy__> yes
Aug 18 20:47:29 <romainguy__> in this case
Aug 18 20:47:36 <romainguy__> worst case, the UI updates a little bit later
Aug 18 20:47:38 <romainguy__> and that's fine
Aug 18 20:47:40 <jasta> because it doesn't seem like it does that.
Aug 18 20:47:47 <jasta> i just watched it after trying to force the app closed
Aug 18 20:47:57 <jasta> the whole UI faded in with that screen at the bottom
Aug 18 20:48:11 <romainguy__> and yet that's what the code seems to be doing
Aug 18 20:48:17 * jasta scratches his head
Aug 18 20:48:23 <jasta> because Five always seemed to have a noticable delay
Aug 18 20:48:38 <romainguy__> davidw: what do you mean?
Aug 18 20:48:42 <jasta> not long, but like a fraction of a second and the UI would just flip to show something it learned from the service
Aug 18 20:49:04 <jasta> like the artist/songs screen would have the same.  it shows an icon next to the currently playing song
Aug 18 20:50:15 <romainguy__> apparently the music player keeps the service connction in a static field
Aug 18 20:50:31 <romainguy__> so if the process is still around, but the activity is killed, it  must be very fast
Aug 18 20:50:38 <ttuttle> Ooh, it's got the pulsating Android -D
Aug 18 20:50:40 <ttuttle> *=D
Aug 18 20:51:35 <jasta> romainguy__: ohhhhhhh
Aug 18 20:51:39 <ttuttle> Ooh, and the Alarm Clock supports as many alarms as you want ;-)
Aug 18 20:51:49 <davidw> romainguy, I mean that if I buy a new phone and it sits there for a minute the first time I turn it on, I'm going to react "oh...hrm"
Aug 18 20:51:52 <romainguy__> jasta: it keeps a Map<Context, Service>
Aug 18 20:52:09 <romainguy__> davidw: wait & see :)
Aug 18 20:52:17 <umdk1d3> ooh nice long list of pretty backgrounds  ^.^
Aug 18 20:52:36 <jasta> romainguy__: that never occurred to me for some reason.  i always associated the life of the activity with the life of the app
Aug 18 20:52:47 <romainguy__> jasta: several of our apps use the same technique
Aug 18 20:52:48 <jasta> obviously that's not right though
Aug 18 20:52:50 <romainguy__> look at samples/Home
Aug 18 20:52:56 <romainguy__> it stores a bunch of things in static field
Aug 18 20:52:58 <romainguy__> fields
Aug 18 20:53:04 <romainguy__> for instance to make rotations faster
Aug 18 20:53:09 <jasta> this is the type of stuff that is really helpful to know about
Aug 18 20:53:15 <jasta> what google apps commonly do to solve these problems
Aug 18 20:53:18 <jasta> that are not otehrwise too obvious
Aug 18 20:53:38 <romainguy__> also we have a new API on Activity that lets you send an Object to your future self
Aug 18 20:53:54 <romainguy__> it's pretty cool to keep data around easily when the activity is restarted
Aug 18 20:54:15 <jasta> romainguy__: so why would there be a map of context to service?  is that in case multiple instances of the same activity come up?
Aug 18 20:54:16 * umdk1d3 sends chocolate m+ms to myself next week
Aug 18 20:54:30 <romainguy__> jasta: I have no idea, that's just the way it's implemented
Aug 18 20:54:35 <romainguy__> there's surely a good rason :)
Aug 18 20:54:39 <umdk1d3> Exception: Can't serialize com.hersheys.chocolate
Aug 18 20:54:48 <jasta> hmm.
Aug 18 20:54:56 <jasta> romainguy__: anyone you could ask?  i'm curious...
Aug 18 20:55:51 <umdk1d3> ooh romainguy__ was that list-separator-background exposed in android.R?  /me goes to peek through   for use with listSeparatorTextViewStyle
Aug 18 20:56:11 <ttuttle> romainguy__: If I hold down send, it redials.
Aug 18 20:56:19 <ttuttle> romainguy__: Is that the intended behavior?
Aug 18 20:56:35 <romainguy__> ttuttle: send? where?
Aug 18 20:56:40 <ttuttle> romainguy__: The green key.
Aug 18 20:56:45 <ttuttle> romainguy__: With the phone on it.
Aug 18 20:56:54 <romainguy__> in the SDK yes
Aug 18 20:57:05 <romainguy__> umdk1d3: hmm it should be
Aug 18 20:57:07 <romainguy__> let me check
Aug 18 20:57:07 <jasta> this is an interesting approach in general to use static fields for this stuff.
Aug 18 20:57:10 <ttuttle> romainguy__: Okay.
Aug 18 20:57:17 <romainguy__> jasta: you have to be careful though
Aug 18 20:57:18 <jasta> i hadn't though tof this really
Aug 18 20:57:23 <jasta> romainguy__: of course
Aug 18 20:57:28 <ttuttle> jasta: Are you having fun yet?
Aug 18 20:57:32 <jasta> you don't want context-specific stuff lingering.
Aug 18 20:57:33 <romainguy__> if your static fields keep a reference to the Context, you will leak the entire activity and all its Views
Aug 18 20:57:39 <romainguy__> again, look in samples/Home
Aug 18 20:57:43 <jasta> i am right now
Aug 18 20:57:45 <romainguy__> were it keeps Drawables in a static
Aug 18 20:57:52 <romainguy__> it looks innocent but that can leak everything
Aug 18 20:58:22 <ttuttle> romainguy__: Also, will the beta SDK be posted on http://code.google.com/p/android/downloads/list ?
Aug 18 20:58:30 <romainguy__> ask morrildl
Aug 18 20:58:35 <ttuttle> morrildl: ^^
Aug 18 20:58:55 <romainguy__> umdk1d3: try style="?android:attr/listSeparatorTextViewStyle"
Aug 18 20:59:02 <romainguy__> might have made it in a later build though
Aug 18 20:59:08 <umdk1d3> awesome ^.^ /me tries
Aug 18 20:59:52 <jasta> romainguy__: i'm glad you guys decided to open source the home app.  that was a good move.
Aug 18 21:00:02 <jasta> even if it is the olld one
Aug 18 21:00:05 <jasta> old*
Aug 18 21:00:10 <romainguy__> the new one will be open sourced with the rest
Aug 18 21:00:18 <umdk1d3> romainguy__: that style works perfectly ^.^
Aug 18 21:00:21 <romainguy__> even though the code is much much much more complicated
Aug 18 21:00:34 <romainguy__> it's easy to grasp the old Home quickly
Aug 18 21:00:34 <ttuttle> romainguy__: /me is so happy.
Aug 18 21:00:45 <jasta> hmm, apps must be signed......
Aug 18 21:00:51 <ttuttle> jasta: Really?
Aug 18 21:01:06 <jasta> yes.  look up the upgrading section
Aug 18 21:01:09 <jasta> in the new docs
Aug 18 21:01:17 <romainguy__> yes but they are signed by the developers
Aug 18 21:01:19 <dsmcl> yes, but they can be self-signed
Aug 18 21:01:32 <ttuttle> jasta: == dsmcl.  Just to make sure it's the same app.
Aug 18 21:02:02 <tomgibara> romainguy__: When the media player is active, it appears in the notifications list under "Ongoing", is that label supplied by the system or is it just applied by the app?
Aug 18 21:02:13 <ttuttle> tomgibara: system
Aug 18 21:02:15 <romainguy__> it's a system category I believe
Aug 18 21:03:02 <jasta> tomgibara: look at the new notification docs
Aug 18 21:03:04 <jasta> the app can specify it there
Aug 18 21:03:20 <ttuttle> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Notification.html#FLAG_ONGOING_EVENT
Aug 18 21:03:30 <tomgibara> thx
Aug 18 21:03:47 <chomchom> I like how on the home screen, the little handle turns into a trash can when you hold down on a widget
Aug 18 21:03:59 <SanMehat> chomchom: romainguy++
Aug 18 21:04:02 <ttuttle> == SanMehat
Aug 18 21:04:11 <ttuttle> SanMehat++ romainguy__++ etc...
Aug 18 21:04:15 <SanMehat> awwwww
Aug 18 21:04:15 <tomgibara> The home screen is terrific - You can really see the software abstractions coming together to make a UI that allows customization but remains simple
Aug 18 21:04:16 <ttuttle> Also interns++ ;-)
Aug 18 21:04:22 <SanMehat> yes interns++
Aug 18 21:04:24 <ttuttle> =D
Aug 18 21:04:35 <romainguy> tomgibara: I can't wait to see what kind of shortcuts you guys will come up with :))
Aug 18 21:04:49 <romainguy> the new Home screen was a breeze to write thanks to the intents
Aug 18 21:04:52 <romainguy> these things are awesome
Aug 18 21:05:13 <ttuttle> Also, try "adb -e shell top".
Aug 18 21:05:52 <chomchom> I don't like how the android manifest editor seems to be broken on adt
Aug 18 21:06:08 <ttuttle> chomchom: Real programmers edit their manifests by hand.  (All of mine were edited using vim1)
Aug 18 21:06:12 <ttuttle> *vim!)
Aug 18 21:06:16 <ttuttle> ;-)
Aug 18 21:06:31 <tomgibara> romainguy: That's the power of Naming
Aug 18 21:06:49 <romainguy> tomgibara: it's a bit more than that but yes :)
Aug 18 21:06:57 <ttuttle> Anyone try top?
Aug 18 21:08:16 <jasta> romainguy__: when would we want to (or not want to) use FEATURE_OPENGL?
Aug 18 21:08:24 <tomgibara> Not really, all the power of abstraction is achieved by naming and then referencing the name - in one form or another
Aug 18 21:08:36 <romainguy> jasta: never, it unfortunately got removed afterwards
Aug 18 21:08:40 <tomgibara> variables, URLs, files etc.
Aug 18 21:08:52 <jasta> uhh ok
Aug 18 21:08:56 <ttuttle> romainguy: Perhaps there should be a post-beta-SDK changelist for important bits like that ;-)
Aug 18 21:09:02 <anno^da_> morrildl: I'm getting the multipart things now to work. :-)
Aug 18 21:09:02 <chomchom> yeah its handy to see all the processes via top
Aug 18 21:09:03 <romainguy> tomgibara: in this case Home also relies on the ability to put icons etc. in intents
Aug 18 21:09:11 <ttuttle> chomchom: I wrote top ;-)
Aug 18 21:09:55 <tomgibara> romainguy: yes, as properties under specific names by any chance?
Aug 18 21:10:01 <romainguy> yes
Aug 18 21:10:05 <romainguy> look in the Intent class
Aug 18 21:10:05 <tomgibara> :)
Aug 18 21:10:16 <chomchom> kudos to you then ttuttle
Aug 18 21:10:19 <ttuttle> chomchom: thanks ;-)
Aug 18 21:10:52 <ttuttle> chomchom: I also wrote vmstat.
Aug 18 21:11:11 <ttuttle> chomchom: And some other cool utilities that aren't in the SDK yet.
Aug 18 21:12:03 <chomchom> ;) I'm sure they are awesome
Aug 18 21:12:09 <SanMehat> they are except for the bugs
Aug 18 21:12:11 <SanMehat> j/k
Aug 18 21:12:12 <SanMehat> :)
Aug 18 21:13:03 <tomgibara> Customizing the home app is so much more usable and useful than the iPhone equivalent
Aug 18 21:13:51 <herriojr> hey, has anyone installed on the verizon vogue?
Aug 18 21:15:02 <tomgibara> Usability suggestion: When dragging an app icon out of the application list (which is fairly easy to do by accident), it would be useful if the trashcan popped up, otherwise there's no simple way of cancelling the action
Aug 18 21:17:16 <jasta> herriojr: no, but i suspect this will not work right.
Aug 18 21:17:19 <herriojr> or rather, has anyone had luck with a cdma vogue?
Aug 18 21:17:20 <jasta> the latest SDK, that is.
Aug 18 21:17:27 <jasta> lots of the apps depend on rotating the screen to reveal a keyboard
Aug 18 21:17:54 <herriojr> so, would it be better if I purchased a sprint one?
Aug 18 21:18:00 <romainguy> tomgibara: yeah but you might think that this would uninstall/remove the app forever
Aug 18 21:18:05 <romainguy> so we decided against it
Aug 18 21:18:07 <herriojr> or AT&T if they carried it
Aug 18 21:18:54 <herriojr> you said the vogue has no issues other than the keyboard, right?
Aug 18 21:19:17 <chomchom> When I start up the adb with my app I am getting this error: "Installation error: INSTALL_PARSE_FAILED_MANIFEST_MALFORMED" Shouldn't it be flagged in the manifest editor then? There are no errors that I can see, I'm error free in my compilations otherwise.
Aug 18 21:19:33 <herriojr> when I try and start android, it just goes to the command prompt due to failure
Aug 18 21:19:37 <jasta> herriojr: no, but as i said this new SD Kcreates lots of problems for the vogue running android :)
Aug 18 21:19:48 <herriojr> hmm, ok
Aug 18 21:20:02 <herriojr> which phone works best with it?
Aug 18 21:20:13 <herriojr> and which SDK are you citing?
Aug 18 21:20:22 <jasonchen> herriojr: whatever phones come new to market later this year :-)
Aug 18 21:20:48 <herriojr> ok, which sdk version was working fine with the vogue?
Aug 18 21:20:59 <tomgibara> romainguy: What about popping up a "cancel" symbol (say a circle with a line through it)?
Aug 18 21:21:27 <romainguy> no
Aug 18 21:21:40 <romainguy> we tried many things :)
Aug 18 21:21:45 <herriojr> does anyone still have an m5 build lying around?
Aug 18 21:22:13 <herriojr> I downloaded the build off of http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/, but it wouldn't boot
Aug 18 21:22:54 <AttractiveApe> herriojr: what error did you get?
Aug 18 21:23:43 <herriojr> let me look again
Aug 18 21:24:22 <herriojr> first, I don't know what the ppp username/password need to be for verizon, I can't find it
Aug 18 21:24:23 <tomgibara> romainguy: When the development is open-source, I look forward to being able to read the changelogs and internal lists, and stop pestering you with things you've already tried or fixed :)
Aug 18 21:24:30 <romainguy> :))
Aug 18 21:25:02 <herriojr> can I just place all the files on the sd card, or do I need to place them on the phone?
Aug 18 21:25:47 <herriojr> maybe I can't, I'll try and transfer it
Aug 18 21:28:45 <herriojr> also, do I need to place the system and data file in the root of the sdcard, or can I have them in a folder on the sdcard?
Aug 18 21:31:46 <chomchom> herriojr: http://code.google.com/android/download_previous.html
Aug 18 21:31:53 <chomchom> You can still get the other builds
Aug 18 21:32:14 <chomchom> But I would try and take the hit now
Aug 18 21:33:00 <chomchom> Is no one else seeing a: Installation error: INSTALL_PARSE_FAILED_MANIFEST_MALFORMED upon trying to push the app onto android?
Aug 18 21:33:30 <herriojr> does anyone know what the ppp username and password are for verizon, I can't find them?
Aug 18 21:33:46 <herriojr> all I see is to leave them blank, but will haret accept that?
Aug 18 21:33:52 <herriojr> or zImage rather?
Aug 18 21:34:50 <herriojr> it doesn't seem to want to mount the sd card
Aug 18 21:35:14 <chomchom> Ah, it seems that the manifest editor in adt does not work until you enter a 'shared user id'
Aug 18 21:37:18 <tomgibara> It's a pity that when a homescreen is full, you don't get to choose another one - too complex I guess
Aug 18 21:38:41 <herriojr> [          0.000000] Unknown boot option 'ppp.username=mobile@...`
Aug 18 21:38:46 <romainguy__> tomgibara: yes
Aug 18 21:38:52 <romainguy__> you can also simply long press an empty space to add something
Aug 18 21:38:59 <herriojr> Welcome to Vogue Linux
Aug 18 21:39:02 <romainguy__> that's the preferred way of adding something
Aug 18 21:39:04 <Dougie187> Good Afternoon
Aug 18 21:39:19 <tomgibara> I discovered that long press - it seemed the obvious thing to try
Aug 18 21:40:44 <herriojr> also, it says that /bin/sh can't find tty
Aug 18 21:40:46 <xavd> chomchom: what does logcat says when you try to install?
Aug 18 21:41:34 <tomgibara> The cropping controls are easy to use and make adding a wallpaper extremely easy, is the required wallpaper size exposed by the home application, for the picture app to know, or is that cropping being done by the home app itself?
Aug 18 21:41:39 <chomchom> I can't run it now, as the aapt is stopping me now that the manifest editor has kicked in
Aug 18 21:41:42 <chomchom> Anyone have a quick fix for replacing textAlign attributes in the styles? > "ERROR: No resource found that matches the given name attribute: 'android:textAlign' value: 'id'. 		<item name="android:textAlign">center</item>"
Aug 18 21:41:55 <xavd> chomchom: there's a lot of things that the build system (and aapt in general) does not check. so you coud put values in some manifest attributes, that are compiled but generate an error on install/runtime
Aug 18 21:42:07 <romainguy__> chomchom: gravity
Aug 18 21:42:30 <romainguy__> tomgibara: there's a wallpaper service that's told by Home what size of wallpapers it wants
Aug 18 21:42:41 <romainguy__> then the cropping app queries the service to know what size the wallpaper should be
Aug 18 21:42:45 <chomchom> ah gravity
Aug 18 21:43:03 <tomgibara> romainguy__: Is this documented?
Aug 18 21:43:14 <romainguy__> not really, but it should be for 1.0 :)
Aug 18 21:43:16 <herriojr> then I get a command promplt
Aug 18 21:43:20 <chomchom> romainguy__:thx
Aug 18 21:43:34 <cutmasta> bye all
Aug 18 21:43:39 <cutmasta> have fun with new release
Aug 18 21:43:42 <romainguy__> tomgibara: fwiw, cropping is done by the Pictures app
Aug 18 21:43:45 <chomchom> nighty
Aug 18 21:43:54 <romainguy__> note that Home is perfectly capable of handling pretty much any wallpaper size
Aug 18 21:43:55 <herriojr> I get /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
Aug 18 21:43:57 <romainguy__> it will try to do what's right
Aug 18 21:44:13 <tomgibara> romainguy__: I wouldn't expect anything less ;)
Aug 18 21:45:14 <romainguy__> anyway, the current recommended wallpaper size is 640x480 in HVGA
Aug 18 21:47:08 <tomgibara> I apologies to anyone on this channel who had a hand in it, but I have to say that I loathe the contacts app, specifically the new/edit contact activity
Aug 18 21:48:06 <Dougie187> hey romainguy__ you guys should make a vim plugin.
Aug 18 21:48:20 <romainguy__> Dougie187: I don't think so :)
Aug 18 21:48:26 <Dougie187> :(
Aug 18 21:48:36 <romainguy__> we have to leave things to do to the community :p
Aug 18 21:48:47 <tomgibara> :)
Aug 18 21:49:05 <romainguy__> tomgibara: what's wrong with the contacts app? (I'm not talking about new/edit)
Aug 18 21:50:03 <tomgibara> romainguy__: we have to leave things to do to the community :p << Like producing some decent ringtones?
Aug 18 21:50:14 <chomchom> I quite like th ebig blockiness of it
Aug 18 21:50:22 <romainguy__> tomgibara: this is just the SDK
Aug 18 21:50:24 <chomchom> of the contacts app
Aug 18 21:50:28 <romainguy__> it's not a phone
Aug 18 21:50:37 <chomchom> Looking forward to running this on a real phone
Aug 18 21:51:24 <Dougie187> has jasta been in since the beta has been released?
Aug 18 21:51:46 <tomgibara> romainguy: Well, perhaps my understanding of the boundaries is wrong, but I just mean specifically the add/edit contact which seems to comprise the bulk of its functionality
Aug 18 21:52:13 <romainguy__> what don't you like about it?
Aug 18 21:52:35 <tomgibara> Also, I'm really not convinced by the necessity of going to the menu to add a new contact, that's one of the tasks I always want to do in a hurry
Aug 18 21:52:54 <chomchom> Dougie187: yes
Aug 18 21:53:02 <chomchom> believe it or not he was quite happy
Aug 18 21:53:04 <Dougie187> Whatd he say?
Aug 18 21:53:06 <Dougie187> thats good.
Aug 18 21:53:26 <Dougie187> im downloading it now.
Aug 18 21:53:29 <Dougie187> gotta check this out.
Aug 18 21:54:30 <tomgibara> in the contacts activity I don't like the way that the save button scrolls off screen, I don't like the way that the ringtone comes between the fields and "More Info", I don't think there's enough space given to the contents of the fields
Aug 18 21:54:41 <romainguy__> ok
Aug 18 21:54:49 <romainguy__> sending that feedback to the Contacts guy :)
Aug 18 21:55:40 <chomchom> Dougie187: >
Aug 18 21:55:42 <chomchom> 08:54 jasta yes, i will lift a lot from this, actually
Aug 18 21:55:42 <chomchom> 08:54 jasta it is all the best practice stuff that i was begging for :)
Aug 18 21:55:42 <chomchom> 08:54 jasta i can't design UIs well hehe
Aug 18 21:56:05 <Dougie187> nice.
Aug 18 21:56:39 <romainguy__> tomgibara: try in landscape mode to see if it works better
Aug 18 21:56:59 <tomgibara> romainguy__: I appreciate that a lot of thought will have gone into the contacts, but I can honestly say that I find pretty much everything in the interfaces easily intelligible except for that app.
Aug 18 21:57:29 <Dougie187> romainguy__: you should send a slap across the face along with the feedback.
Aug 18 21:57:37 <romainguy__> tomgibara: I understand
Aug 18 21:57:40 <romainguy__> Dougie187: ??
Aug 18 21:57:49 <Dougie187> its a joke.
Aug 18 21:57:55 <chomchom> I think a lot of his UI 'nice to haves' are included
Aug 18 21:57:55 * romainguy__ slaps Dougie187 
Aug 18 21:58:02 <Dougie187> i guess the french people dont get jokes?
Aug 18 21:58:03 <Dougie187> heh
Aug 18 21:58:11 <romainguy__> Dougie187: just the funny ones
Aug 18 21:58:18 <Dougie187> thanks.
Aug 18 21:58:33 * chomchom throws large trout into the crowd <FISH FIGHT!>
Aug 18 21:59:49 <tomgibara> romainguy__: The space for the fields is better, but the other comments stand (personal preferences though they are)
Aug 18 21:59:58 * chomchom slaps Dougie187 with a huge really wet, smelly trout
Aug 18 21:59:58 <romainguy__> ok
Aug 18 22:00:40 <Dougie187> i appreciate it.
Aug 18 22:03:20 <jham> tomgibara: Did you like the M5 contacts better?
Aug 18 22:04:02 <tomgibara> I honestly can't recall
Aug 18 22:04:11 <tomgibara> I'll fire up the emulator and see
Aug 18 22:08:53 <chomchom> Is the guy that wrote the "busy coders" android book in here?: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Busy-Coders-Guide-Android-Development/dp/0981678009/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219097259&sr=1-10
Aug 18 22:12:19 <tomgibara> jham: I certainly find it clearer, but then again it doesn't expose all of the functionality of 0.9. Fewer visible options just mean that I 'feel' more comfortable using it.
Aug 18 22:15:27 <steventroughtons> Any generous Android developer fancy tutoring an iPhone dev in the ways of android sdk 0.9?
Aug 18 22:17:06 <steventroughtons> I offer karma++ ? =)
Aug 18 22:20:31 <f00f-> oh my 194 errors.... worse than last time :P
Aug 18 22:22:17 <chomchom> steventroughtons: Well we are all here to answer your questions! So we'll all help you
Aug 18 22:23:54 <steventroughtons> That's nice of you ;) How would I put an image as a background and then draw the rest of the UI from the xml file on top of that?
Aug 18 22:25:49 <chomchom> You can set a background image to fill the background of the LinearLayout with setBackground()
Aug 18 22:25:59 <chomchom> programatically
Aug 18 22:26:11 <steventroughtons> right sounds simple enough
Aug 18 22:26:22 <chomchom> put the image in your res/drawable/ folder
Aug 18 22:26:28 <steventroughtons> programatically ? how would I access the LinearLayout from my code?
Aug 18 22:27:19 <steventroughtons> and can I use PNGs? or are there strict image requirements
Aug 18 22:27:24 <chomchom> In fact you can do it in the xml I think something like android:background=”@android:drawable/empty”
Aug 18 22:27:28 <jasta> steventroughtons: you can use findViewById to locate it, assuming that you gave it a name.
Aug 18 22:27:41 <steventroughtons> lets give this a go, 1 sec
Aug 18 22:27:45 <jasta> or rather, gave it an android:id
Aug 18 22:29:10 <SanMehat> back
Aug 18 22:29:39 <steventroughtons> No resource found that matches the given name (at 'background' with value '@android:drawable/s-bg-leather.png')
Aug 18 22:29:40 <steventroughtons> ouch
Aug 18 22:29:51 <steventroughtons> did I miss some key step?
Aug 18 22:29:53 <f00f-> drop the .png
Aug 18 22:29:56 <steventroughtons> ok
Aug 18 22:29:59 <romainguy__> the android: prefix is for system resources
Aug 18 22:30:08 <romainguy__> in your app sue @drawable/thefilenamenoextension
Aug 18 22:30:09 <xavd> - isn't allowed
Aug 18 22:30:29 <xavd> since the name of your png will become a java variable you can't use characters that aren't allowed in java
Aug 18 22:30:39 <steventroughtons> res/drawable/s-bg-leather.png: Invalid file name: must contain only [a-z0-9_.]
Aug 18 22:30:42 <steventroughtons> ha, how silly =P
Aug 18 22:30:45 * steventroughtons renames image
Aug 18 22:32:04 <f00f-> oh so . would work, interesting
Aug 18 22:33:10 <steventroughtons> Oh aye, now it looks pretty
Aug 18 22:33:16 <steventroughtons> It worked, thanks guys =)
Aug 18 22:33:36 <chomchom> tell me your scottish steventroughtons
Aug 18 22:33:36 <steventroughtons> How would I set an inset left/right on my text box?
Aug 18 22:33:41 <steventroughtons> Irish ;)
Aug 18 22:33:42 <steventroughtons> close
Aug 18 22:33:53 <chomchom> darn
Aug 18 22:34:19 <chomchom> was on the verge of finding another local android dev
Aug 18 22:34:38 <steventroughtons> http://www.imagebam.com/image/bd7a2111468211
Aug 18 22:34:49 <steventroughtons> Yes. WinNuke. Yes I suck =P
Aug 18 22:35:06 <steventroughtons> And Ireland is local enough, eh? =)
Aug 18 22:35:36 <chomchom> not local enough to Glasgow I'm afraid
Aug 18 22:36:31 <chomchom> A lot of these guys are in America
Aug 18 22:36:44 <steventroughtons> Ok this is gonna sound major stupid - but what IRC server are we on? I followed a Google link and it opened some java chat
Aug 18 22:36:51 <chomchom> surprisingly few euro stars
Aug 18 22:36:55 <steventroughtons> I want to load it up in Colloquy
Aug 18 22:36:58 <chomchom> freenode
Aug 18 22:37:10 <chomchom> #android
Aug 18 22:37:28 <steventroughtons> hold on, I'll switch
Aug 18 22:38:20 <steventroughtons> port 6667?
Aug 18 22:40:10 <chomchom> yes
Aug 18 22:40:22 <chomchom> I'm on server 216.165.191.52:6667
Aug 18 22:40:24 <steventroughtons> that just makes me wonder why it wont connect
Aug 18 22:41:44 <steventroughtons> ok wtf, Colloquy isn't being helpful
Aug 18 22:41:54 <steventroughtons> sorry about the noobishness
Aug 18 22:43:04 <chomchom> I use one called snak which is nice
Aug 18 22:43:23 <steventroughtons> irc.freenode.net right?
Aug 18 22:43:48 <dmoffett> that is what I use with Colloquy
Aug 18 22:44:00 <steventroughtons> weird, it aint connecting here
Aug 18 22:44:24 <duey> lol omg at topic
Aug 18 22:44:34 <duey> jasta will be happy
Aug 18 22:44:58 <jasta> i've already been tearing through it.
Aug 18 22:45:05 <chomchom> Its funny how thats the first thing everyone thinks of!
Aug 18 22:45:07 <jasta> i'm mostly ahppy, but there is a big thorn in my side...
Aug 18 22:45:13 <chomchom> oop...
Aug 18 22:45:18 <duey> jasta, they copied your idea?
Aug 18 22:45:19 <jasta> if my app wasn't Five, i'd be ecstatic ;)
Aug 18 22:45:40 <jasta> duey: no, i am the most pleased by their music app.  this will help me basically just steal their whole UI :)
Aug 18 22:45:46 <jasta> because i'm apparently very uncreative
Aug 18 22:45:49 <duey> <3
Aug 18 22:46:03 <jasta> but the MediaPlayer hasn't been sufficiently extended to make Five possible efficiently
Aug 18 22:46:04 <duey> decompile it rename it to five and rebuild
Aug 18 22:47:03 <steventroughtons> here guys I'll be back as soon as I can. Wanna continue convo. thanks chomchom
Aug 18 22:47:16 <jasta> duey: not sure how to proceed, really...
Aug 18 22:49:10 <gambler> whee new sdk
Aug 18 22:49:18 <steventroughtons> HURRAH
Aug 18 22:49:19 <steventroughtons> I made it
Aug 18 22:49:25 <steventroughtons> had to disconnect from the web irc client first
Aug 18 22:49:30 <steventroughtons> what bollox
Aug 18 22:50:24 <duey> has the round 2 compo winners been annouced?
Aug 18 22:50:36 <jasta> they say they will announce Q4
Aug 18 22:50:37 <chomchom>  jasta: Five still has a lot going for it, the whole point is that you can swap out elements. To my mind a the moment Five is the ONLY media player alternative. Especially with the server side stuff.
Aug 18 22:50:51 <jasta> chomchom: well, they implemented a Music player
Aug 18 22:51:00 <jasta> seems to work pretty nicely too.  i plan to lift a lot of UI stuffs from it
Aug 18 22:53:35 <steventroughtons> ok quick Q for those crazy enough to help me - how do i position my <EditText> ? I want it to be at the bottom of screen
Aug 18 22:53:46 <romainguy__> swetland: it depends :))
Aug 18 22:53:48 <jasta> but i just don't know if i have the energy to hack this MediaPlayer stuff one more time
Aug 18 22:54:28 <romainguy__> steventroughtons: what else will you put on the screen?
Aug 18 22:55:01 <steventroughtons> @romainguy__ possibly nothing, I haven't thought about it yet. To match my iPhone app there will be nothing but the input field
Aug 18 22:55:04 <steventroughtons> (and bg image)
Aug 18 22:55:34 <chomchom> steventroughtons: you might want something like <android:gravity>center
Aug 18 22:56:14 <steventroughtons> center?
Aug 18 22:57:12 <romainguy> steventroughtons: then you can simply do this:
Aug 18 22:57:15 <romainguy> <FrameLayout>
Aug 18 22:57:17 <romainguy> <EditText>
Aug 18 22:57:21 <romainguy> </FrameLayout>
Aug 18 22:57:29 <romainguy> and on your EditText, use android:gravity="bottom"
Aug 18 22:58:25 <chomchom> or you can do it in your activity via setGravity(int gravity)
Aug 18 22:58:42 <steventroughtons> the framelayout key makes the app 'quit unexpectedly'
Aug 18 22:58:42 <romainguy_> although it's not how you should do it :)
Aug 18 22:58:44 <steventroughtons> will try the gravity
Aug 18 22:58:57 <romainguy_> oops
Aug 18 22:59:01 <romainguy_> android:layout_gravity
Aug 18 22:59:05 <romainguy_> not android:gravity
Aug 18 22:59:06 <romainguy_> sorry
Aug 18 23:00:11 <xavd> just use the layout editor to make sure you use the proper attribute/value ;)
Aug 18 23:00:16 <romainguy_> hehe
Aug 18 23:00:20 <romainguy_> xavd++
Aug 18 23:00:24 <steventroughtons> layout editor? :P
Aug 18 23:00:25 <chomchom> imy aidl files are still generating code that throws throws android.os.RemoteException  and imports android.os.RemoteException
Aug 18 23:00:34 <xavd> steventroughtons: are you using eclipse?
Aug 18 23:00:41 <steventroughtons> no, commandline, on OS X
Aug 18 23:00:48 <chomchom> but its complaining they do not exist
Aug 18 23:00:51 <xavd> well there's your problem ;)
Aug 18 23:01:00 <steventroughtons> <FrameLayout> btw causes a crash
Aug 18 23:01:20 <romainguy_> that was a skeleton
Aug 18 23:01:27 <romainguy_> you need to specify the layout_width and layout_height
Aug 18 23:01:29 <romainguy_> on every widget
Aug 18 23:01:36 <steventroughtons> oh do you? sucky
Aug 18 23:01:49 <steventroughtons> last beta i used, i couldnt use integer values for the height/width
Aug 18 23:01:52 <steventroughtons> is that still there?
Aug 18 23:01:58 <romainguy_> you can
Aug 18 23:02:00 <jasta> you don't want to do that in the general case.
Aug 18 23:02:02 <romainguy_> but you need to specify the unit
Aug 18 23:02:09 <romainguy_> 230dip or 162px for instance
Aug 18 23:02:09 <steventroughtons> oh, so px ?
Aug 18 23:02:13 <steventroughtons> i get it
Aug 18 23:02:16 <romainguy_> but usually we use wrap_content and fill_parent
Aug 18 23:02:29 <jham> fill_parent is your friend for that FrameLayout example
Aug 18 23:02:29 <romainguy_> note that dip is better (it stands for device independent pixels)
Aug 18 23:03:02 <steventroughtons> 	android:layout_gravity="bottom" isn't working
Aug 18 23:03:10 <steventroughtons> the EditText still stays up top
Aug 18 23:03:13 <romainguy_> what's your XML?
Aug 18 23:03:51 <steventroughtons> http://pastie.org/255332
Aug 18 23:04:09 <romainguy_> ouch
Aug 18 23:04:10 <romainguy_> no no :))
Aug 18 23:04:16 <steventroughtons> :D
Aug 18 23:04:21 <romainguy_> the top level widget should be FrameLayout
Aug 18 23:04:23 <romainguy_> not LinearLayout
Aug 18 23:04:24 <steventroughtons> it's nice being a Noob again ;-)
Aug 18 23:04:29 <romainguy_> and android:layout_gravity should be on EditText
Aug 18 23:04:54 <steventroughtons> ahso, lets try this
Aug 18 23:05:28 <steventroughtons> oic, that works :D
Aug 18 23:05:50 <steventroughtons> OK ! now, how would i make the edittext's width the parent width - 10 ?
Aug 18 23:06:32 <romainguy_> just give the parent a paddingLeft and a paddingRight of 5dip
Aug 18 23:06:57 <steventroughtons> why the parent? what if i only want the edittext to have padding
Aug 18 23:07:20 <romainguy_> because padding is an inside inset
Aug 18 23:08:44 <steventroughtons> http://www.imagebam.com/image/04f16511469442
Aug 18 23:08:47 <steventroughtons> i'm getting there ;)
Aug 18 23:08:53 <steventroughtons> thanks a lot guys for putting up with me
Aug 18 23:08:56 <romainguy_> np
Aug 18 23:09:48 <steventroughtons> so this ui xml stuff is quite interesting
Aug 18 23:10:04 <dmoffett> As opposed to IB I guess.  :-)
Aug 18 23:10:04 <steventroughtons> it's like avalon (dare I say it)
Aug 18 23:10:13 <romainguy_> yes kinda
Aug 18 23:10:15 <steventroughtons> yeah IB is a whole different thing
Aug 18 23:10:29 <romainguy_> except we don't support canvas drawing in the XML, unlike WPF
Aug 18 23:10:38 <romainguy_> you can however create pretty complex drawables in XML
Aug 18 23:10:46 <chomchom> Is anyone else having problems with their aidl files generating incorrectly? Or at least generating with exceptions?
Aug 18 23:11:12 <chomchom> All mine are generating with  "throws android.os.RemoteException"
Aug 18 23:11:21 <chomchom> and then complaining it doesn;t exist
Aug 18 23:12:25 <steventroughtons> just before I go and try to code it, can I override the android:background on an EditText the same way?
Aug 18 23:12:34 <romainguy_> steventroughtons: yes
Aug 18 23:12:43 <steventroughtons> that's cool enough
Aug 18 23:12:48 <romainguy_> note that background drawwables are state based
Aug 18 23:13:03 <steventroughtons> so you set for mousedown, mouseup, etc?
Aug 18 23:13:04 <romainguy_> the default background uses different images based on the state: focused, window_focused, enabled, etc.
Aug 18 23:13:20 <romainguy_> mousedown is called pressed
Aug 18 23:13:30 <steventroughtons> ok I understand
Aug 18 23:13:30 <romainguy_> you can look in View for a list of states
Aug 18 23:13:38 <steventroughtons> 'look in View'? :P
Aug 18 23:13:49 <romainguy_> the documentation of the class called View
Aug 18 23:13:52 <steventroughtons> i'm sticking to commandline + ant here :P
Aug 18 23:13:59 <steventroughtons> docs are on the android site yeah?
Aug 18 23:14:02 <romainguy_> yes
Aug 18 23:14:10 <romainguy_> you should really use the Eclipse plugin :)
Aug 18 23:14:21 <steventroughtons> I can't stand IDEs in general :)
Aug 18 23:14:31 <romainguy_> your loss ;)
Aug 18 23:14:37 <chomchom> Its not a competition for who is hardest up steve
Aug 18 23:14:45 <chomchom> These tools help!
Aug 18 23:15:04 <steventroughtons> Means I have to install nasty java shit on top of my OS :D
Aug 18 23:15:14 <steventroughtons> sure it helps
Aug 18 23:15:24 <romainguy_> well you have ant installed already
Aug 18 23:15:30 <steventroughtons> but I dont fancy using Eclipse as opposed to a mac native ide
Aug 18 23:15:44 <steventroughtons> it's like offering me to run something through X11 :P
Aug 18 23:15:47 <romainguy_> you should give it a try
Aug 18 23:15:54 <romainguy_> no, Eclipse doesn't need X11
Aug 18 23:16:10 <steventroughtons> yes but it's the same 'concept' :P running something abhorrent to the native OS :P
Aug 18 23:16:24 <chomchom> I'm using eclipse but you've also got the option of intelliJ or netbeans
Aug 18 23:16:27 <romainguy_> steventroughtons: sure, but it helps get the job done a lot more easily
Aug 18 23:16:35 <romainguy_> anyway, that's your call
Aug 18 23:16:38 <steventroughtons> I'm kinda guessing as a beginner I should learn what's actually happening before I go to an IDE
Aug 18 23:16:46 <morrildl> hey SanMehat
Aug 18 23:17:25 <xavd> steventroughtons: that's the opposite I think. Some of the custom editors help you not have to figure out what to put in the XMLs. As you get better you can use the XML view and hand code them if you prefer.
Aug 18 23:17:31 <chomchom> I'd say you'll learn faster by working top down at your own pase
Aug 18 23:17:48 <chomchom> pace even, funny I was having this discussion the other day with a new guy
Aug 18 23:17:49 <dmoffett> I really dislike IDEs but Eclipse is the first one that I have learned to like.  I understand if you have been using xcode which is really bad.
Aug 18 23:17:59 <chomchom> really really bad
Aug 18 23:18:08 <steventroughtons> Xcode I love, it works the way I want it
Aug 18 23:18:16 <dmoffett> Ouch
Aug 18 23:18:20 <steventroughtons> ;)
Aug 18 23:18:27 <steventroughtons> I'm an obtuse sort of guy
Aug 18 23:18:33 <dmoffett> I must be doing something wrong then.
Aug 18 23:18:55 <romainguy_> I don't like Xcode either ^^
Aug 18 23:19:05 <romainguy_> it's more like a basic text editor than an IDE to me :)
Aug 18 23:19:19 <steventroughtons> has google mentioned anything about using C/C++ code in Android except 'you can't' btw? :)
Aug 18 23:19:38 <dmoffett> emacs rules but Eclipse has enough to get me by.
Aug 18 23:19:48 <romainguy_> steventroughtons: not for version 1.0
Aug 18 23:19:48 <steventroughtons> @romainguy_ not true, Xcode + IB are apple's secret weapons :) how there's so many quite cool mac apps
Aug 18 23:19:49 <gambler> morrildl, (reading changelog) if no no bluetooth in android 1.0...when?
Aug 18 23:20:14 <romainguy_> steventroughtons: IB is great, but Xcode is really lacking for an IDE, especially compared to Eclipse/NetBeans/IntelliJ
Aug 18 23:20:16 <dmoffett> Like Numbers?   ;-)
Aug 18 23:20:25 <romainguy_> but you don't really have a choice when it comes to Objective-C anyway ;-)
Aug 18 23:20:35 <dmoffett> IB rocks but xcode is very weak.
Aug 18 23:20:41 <morrildl> gambler: probably 1.1
Aug 18 23:20:58 <steventroughtons> :D
Aug 18 23:21:04 <gambler> :S
Aug 18 23:21:09 <dmoffett> emacs, gdb work find on OSX.
Aug 18 23:22:12 <steventroughtons> before this gets too OT, is there any way to have 'placeholder' text in an EditText ?
Aug 18 23:22:25 <romainguy_> yes
Aug 18 23:22:28 <romainguy_> it's called the hint
Aug 18 23:22:33 <romainguy_> android:hint="blah blah"
Aug 18 23:22:39 * ttuttle is soooooooo happy!
Aug 18 23:22:40 <steventroughtons> android:hint="Enter IP Address"
Aug 18 23:22:42 <steventroughtons> I see
Aug 18 23:22:43 <steventroughtons> nice :D
Aug 18 23:22:49 <romainguy_> (it's in the docs and in the Eclipse plugin as well :p)
Aug 18 23:23:00 <steventroughtons> Pff, I can't read :P
Aug 18 23:23:28 <steventroughtons> can i set a matte colour instead of a :background?
Aug 18 23:24:02 <xavd> the eclipse tooltip for this field says "reference or color" ;)
Aug 18 23:24:09 <romainguy_> steventroughtons: yes
Aug 18 23:24:18 <romainguy_> android:background="#ffff0000" for red for instance
Aug 18 23:24:25 <romainguy_> you can also reference named colors
Aug 18 23:24:28 <steventroughtons> very html
Aug 18 23:24:32 <romainguy_> like @android:drawable/white
Aug 18 23:24:36 <steventroughtons> wait, does that mean I can only use 216 colours? :P
Aug 18 23:24:46 <romainguy_> :p
Aug 18 23:25:00 <romainguy_> background can also refer to images or XML that describe drawables
Aug 18 23:25:39 <steventroughtons> oh but that overrides the view's default drawing
Aug 18 23:25:42 <steventroughtons> oh dont like that
Aug 18 23:25:58 <steventroughtons> how would I draw the colour *underneath* the default style?
Aug 18 23:26:08 <steventroughtons> ie. a [super drawRect:] in cocoa
Aug 18 23:26:16 <romainguy_> you'll have to write code
Aug 18 23:26:21 <romainguy_> or create an XML drawable with layers
Aug 18 23:26:29 <trigatch4> romainguy_ no bluetooth 2.0 until v1.1.... does that mean the first Android Devices will launch without BlueTooth support?
Aug 18 23:26:30 <steventroughtons> alright, no biggie, haven't yet got to the coding stage :D
Aug 18 23:26:44 <romainguy_> trigatch4: no that means, there's no public API to access bluetooth from apps, that's all
Aug 18 23:26:51 <trigatch4> gotchya
Aug 18 23:26:52 <romainguy_> steventroughtons: you can use XML to create layered backgrounds
Aug 18 23:31:04 <steventroughtons> there's some nasty banding in the emulator - is that just an emulator issue?
Aug 18 23:31:09 <steventroughtons> crud, noone would know i guess
Aug 18 23:31:28 <romainguy> cell phones use screens that render colors in 565 format again
Aug 18 23:31:40 <romainguy> so if you use subtle gradients without dithering, you will get banding
Aug 18 23:31:48 <steventroughtons> I was using a matte grey :)
Aug 18 23:32:25 <steventroughtons> 565 is the bane of my life, I spent a long time getting the iPhone doom port rendering at rgb888
Aug 18 23:32:29 <steventroughtons> ha
Aug 18 23:33:32 <steventroughtons> is there an on-screen KB btw? or are all android devices supposed to have a hardware keyboard
Aug 18 23:35:28 <jasta> steventroughtons: there wasn't with any previous releases, probably not this one either.
Aug 18 23:35:39 <jasta> android is clearly building incrementally.  to focus on one device in particular at a time
Aug 18 23:35:58 <steventroughtons> sure, i understand
Aug 18 23:36:14 * jasta puts on Dropkick Murphys - I'm Shipping Up To Boston and starts coding
Aug 18 23:36:25 <steventroughtons> Ok, probably my last Q for this eve :) how do I get an EditText to perform code after i hit return?
Aug 18 23:36:27 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 23:36:44 <jasta> steventroughtons: set a key listener
Aug 18 23:37:00 <jasta> there may even be an activate event that gets registered, not sure.
Aug 18 23:37:13 <jasta> but remember, this isn't a computer.  users aren't very likely to push enter keys ;)
Aug 18 23:37:29 <steventroughtons> oh so i should start writing code now? :P i was getting happy with xml :P
Aug 18 23:45:29 <steventroughtons> wow the android api guide is hurting my eyes
Aug 18 23:45:37 <steventroughtons> a splurge of html links :P
Aug 18 23:46:30 <steventroughtons> so, since i'm new to this - do i need to subclass an EditText to use onKeyDown, or what?
Aug 18 23:46:40 <romainguy_> you can
Aug 18 23:46:44 <romainguy_> or you can put a key listener
Aug 18 23:46:51 <steventroughtons> how does that go/
Aug 18 23:47:31 <steventroughtons> setKeyListener ()
Aug 18 23:47:46 <romainguy_> no
Aug 18 23:47:49 <romainguy_> setOnKeyListener()
Aug 18 23:48:35 <steventroughtons> so myEditText.setOnKeyListener(myListener) ?
Aug 18 23:48:52 <romainguy_> yes
Aug 18 23:49:08 <steventroughtons> so, for
Aug 18 23:49:09 <steventroughtons> android:id="@+id/edit"
Aug 18 23:49:12 <jasta> steventroughtons: very little of Android's design requires subclassing to work.
Aug 18 23:49:13 <steventroughtons> what should i have inside the quotes
Aug 18 23:49:20 <jasta> just as a tip
Aug 18 23:49:28 <steventroughtons> to name my edittext appropriately
Aug 18 23:50:10 <steventroughtons> +id/edit doesnt sound like much of a name :P
Aug 18 23:50:34 <jasta> steventroughtons: @+id/foo creates a new id named foo
Aug 18 23:50:47 <steventroughtons> this is in my xml now
Aug 18 23:50:48 * morrildl should know better than to try and type faster than jasta
Aug 18 23:50:49 <jasta> available as R.id.foo from R.java
Aug 18 23:50:50 <steventroughtons> <EditText android:id="@+id/edit"
Aug 18 23:50:57 <steventroughtons> ok i get it
Aug 18 23:51:13 <steventroughtons> so,
Aug 18 23:51:14 <steventroughtons> <EditText android:id="@+id/nukerfield"
Aug 18 23:51:25 <steventroughtons> 	R.id.nukerfield.setOnKeyListener();
Aug 18 23:51:28 <steventroughtons> would be that
Aug 18 23:51:35 <steventroughtons> how do I do a self?
Aug 18 23:51:37 <morrildl> steventroughtons: @id/foo is a reference to an ID that must already exist, or it is an error.  @+id/foo creates the ID for use by other things
Aug 18 23:51:39 <steventroughtons> setOnKeyListener(self)
Aug 18 23:52:00 <steventroughtons> ok i'm getting there :D
Aug 18 23:52:06 <steventroughtons> is self a valid java term?
Aug 18 23:52:14 <steventroughtons> </noob>
Aug 18 23:52:16 <morrildl> steventroughtons: in JAva it is 'this'
Aug 18 23:52:19 <xavd> no, findViewById(R.id.foo). then cast into proper class then setOnKeyListener()
Aug 18 23:52:29 <morrildl> hi, xavd
Aug 18 23:52:29 <yakischloba> steventroughtons: EditText myNukerField = (EditText) findViewById(R.id.nukerfield); myNukerField.onWhatever...;
Aug 18 23:52:43 <jasta> steventroughtons: dude, look at the examples.  this is ridiculous.
Aug 18 23:52:44 <xavd> hey morrildl
Aug 18 23:52:53 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 23:52:54 <steventroughtons> oi :P
Aug 18 23:52:59 <yakischloba> yeah honestly why has there been a tutorial going on in here for 4 hours
Aug 18 23:53:02 <Dougie187> you have a short temper lately jasta.
Aug 18 23:53:17 <jasta> steventroughtons: IRC is not an Android IDE.
Aug 18 23:53:23 <yakischloba> i usually try to figure it out myself before asking questions
Aug 18 23:53:24 <steventroughtons> you got anything better to talk about? :P
Aug 18 23:53:40 <jasta> steventroughtons: yes, something much more exciting happened today than you choosing to learn Android.
Aug 18 23:53:53 <steventroughtons> you have the stage, fire away :D
Aug 18 23:54:14 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 23:54:32 <chomchom> Thats what this room is for after all, no one has to answer him :)
Aug 18 23:54:35 <Dougie187> whats new jasta?
Aug 18 23:54:41 <romainguy_> jasta: steventroughtons: IRC is not an Android IDE. << it's a place where we answer questions about Android
Aug 18 23:54:42 <jasta> Dougie187: with the SDK or with me?
Aug 18 23:54:54 <Dougie187> with you.
Aug 18 23:55:13 <Dougie187> the SDK has been all around.
Aug 18 23:55:17 <jasta> not much i suppose.  i'm updating my solitaire game.  we'll see how right i was that a solitaire game can't possibly be that affected by the new API :)
Aug 18 23:55:19 <dmoffett> I was picking up some things as well.
Aug 18 23:55:24 <morrildl> yeah as I recall I set this channel up, so I guess I get to say what it's for ;)
Aug 18 23:55:41 <yakischloba> romainguy_: Is this really necessary though? All of this elementary stuff is covered. Conversation pollution O_O
Aug 18 23:55:56 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 23:56:21 <romainguy_> yakischloba: if somebody has questions, we try to answer them
Aug 18 23:56:29 <f00f-> write a FAQ, put a link to it in the topic.
Aug 18 23:56:40 <Dougie187> true dat.
Aug 18 23:56:53 * ttuttle supports hand-holding, as long as it's not interrupting something.
Aug 18 23:57:08 <yakischloba> I'd rather hear about the new SDK than watch the docs be re-written question by question. shrug.
Aug 18 23:57:12 <Dougie187> lol... ttuttle your opinion doesnt count. your an intern.
Aug 18 23:57:22 <yakischloba> Dougie187: so mean ;)
Aug 18 23:57:23 <romainguy_> yakischloba: well, nobody else was asking questions
Aug 18 23:57:26 <ttuttle> Dougie187: :(
Aug 18 23:57:26 <Dougie187> ;)
Aug 18 23:57:31 <romainguy_> Dougie187: he *was* an intern, even worse :p
Aug 18 23:57:34 <ttuttle> Dougie187: /me had *so* much fun this summer.
Aug 18 23:57:45 <yakischloba> just a has-been ;)
Aug 18 23:57:47 <Dougie187> I had a friend who was a google intern too.
Aug 18 23:57:51 <romainguy_> ttuttle: I recall you mostly talked a lot :p
Aug 18 23:57:55 <ttuttle> romainguy_: Heh.
Aug 18 23:57:56 <steventroughtons> seriously you can't expect someone to be interested in a new platform if asking for help in irc results in this :P
Aug 18 23:57:56 <ttuttle> romainguy_: Yeah.
Aug 18 23:57:57 <Dougie187> haha.
Aug 18 23:58:09 <romainguy_> steventroughtons: don't listen to them :)
Aug 18 23:58:11 <ttuttle> steventroughtons: Pay no attention to the complaints.
Aug 18 23:58:16 <steventroughtons> I'm not ;)
Aug 18 23:58:20 <yakischloba> steventroughtons: Google wants you to ;)
Aug 18 23:58:20 <steventroughtons> I'm busy coding
Aug 18 23:58:22 <steventroughtons> haha
Aug 18 23:58:23 <ttuttle> steventroughtons: Good.  Android is awesome.
Aug 18 23:58:36 * chomchom pins his friendly hand-holding button to his lapels
Aug 18 23:58:38 * ttuttle is, of course, biased on teh issue ;-)
Aug 18 23:58:42 <morrildl> well, we trained the intern well.
Aug 18 23:58:45 <morrildl> ;)
Aug 18 23:58:49 <ttuttle> =D
Aug 18 23:58:49 <romainguy_> I don't know
Aug 18 23:58:54 <romainguy_> he's still very talkative :)
Aug 18 23:58:59 <yakischloba> honestly though, 95% of questions are answered here http://code.google.com/android/reference/
Aug 18 23:58:59 <ttuttle> romainguy_: That never goes away.
Aug 18 23:59:06 <ttuttle> romainguy_: My teachers have been trying since first grade.
Aug 18 23:59:13 <ttuttle> romainguy_: What makes you think IRC can pull it off?
Aug 18 23:59:15 <Dougie187> its like you whipped him with an android whip.
Aug 18 23:59:26 <jasta> does simply upgrading the ADT plugin not work?  do i have to reinstall it?
Aug 18 23:59:36 <chomchom> you can upgrade
Aug 18 23:59:36 <xavd> upgrading should work
Aug 18 23:59:39 <romainguy_> jasta: ask xavd
Aug 18 23:59:51 <jasta> it doesn't.  when i go to window -> prefs and click android i get:
Aug 18 23:59:59 <steventroughtons> @yakischloba the reference is detrimental to my eyesight :P a lot of blue text just thrown onto a web page
Aug 19 00:00:09 <jasta> "Plug-in com.android.ide.eclipse.adt was unable to load class com.android.ide.eclipse.adt.preferences.AndroidPReferencePage."
Aug 19 00:00:21 <ttuttle> To quote one of my friends, who was a student in a C class I TAed: "Man pages are O(n).  Asking you is O(1)."
Aug 19 00:00:21 <xavd> oh, what version of eclipse are you running
Aug 19 00:00:22 <xavd> ?
Aug 19 00:00:23 <yakischloba> steventroughtons: better learn to read it, its hardly any different from any other API doc ;)
Aug 19 00:00:27 <jasta> eclipse 3.2
Aug 19 00:00:32 <jasta> from Debian etch
Aug 19 00:00:33 <xavd> ah yeah sorry, you have to use 3.3 now
Aug 19 00:00:43 <steventroughtons> @yakischloba don't be silly, there are far more legible docs =)
Aug 19 00:00:45 <xavd> we started using some 3.3 APIs
Aug 19 00:00:47 <jasta> seriously?  Ubuntu doesn't even have 3.3 packaged yet.
Aug 19 00:01:06 <xavd> ugh really?
Aug 19 00:01:19 <chomchom> really!?
Aug 19 00:01:28 <romainguy_> do you need a special package?
Aug 19 00:01:34 <romainguy_> can't you just grab Eclipse 3.3 from eclipse.org?
Aug 19 00:01:36 <jasta> i certainly don't think so.  i use ubuntu at work and haven't seen the update come by in the last week or so.  perhaps it's a forked package.
Aug 19 00:01:39 <ttuttle> Shit, I don't think Gentoo has 3.3 either. :-(
Aug 19 00:01:47 * ttuttle wants his Google workstation back.
Aug 19 00:02:04 <morrildl> jasta: wow, that sucks
Aug 19 00:02:04 <morrildl> crap
Aug 19 00:02:10 <morrildl> jasta: are you using gcj-eclipse?
Aug 19 00:02:15 <ttuttle> Wait, why do I need Eclipse again?
Aug 19 00:02:15 <chomchom> I sympathize I work on a platform based off eclipse, the move was sore to upgrade from 3.2 in the build
Aug 19 00:02:21 <jasta> yeah, ubuntu packages 3.2 still.
Aug 19 00:02:30 <morrildl> ttuttle: you don't, but if you WANT it, compatibility is nice to have
Aug 19 00:02:38 <ttuttle> morrildl: True.
Aug 19 00:02:45 * ttuttle has always preferred the command line.
Aug 19 00:02:50 <jasta> this sucks.
Aug 19 00:03:56 <ttuttle> jasta: Oh, come on.  It's better than this morning!
Aug 19 00:04:05 <morrildl> wow, why are these distros so far behind?  I can understand being on 3.3, but 3.2 is 2 versions back
Aug 19 00:04:14 <jasta> i just didn't think i'd have to break away from Debian packages to use this new SDK
Aug 19 00:04:26 <ttuttle> jasta: Is etch testing or what?  (I don't remember.)
Aug 19 00:04:33 <morrildl> hmm
Aug 19 00:04:37 <xavd> morrildl: 3.5M1 was released 10 days ago, it's even older now ;)
Aug 19 00:04:40 <jasta> morrildl: Debian and Ubuntu are not necessarily about being bleeding edge.
Aug 19 00:04:49 <jasta> ttuttle: etch is stable.
Aug 19 00:04:53 <ttuttle> jasta: Oh.
Aug 19 00:04:58 <ttuttle> jasta: Then why are you surprised?
Aug 19 00:05:05 <jasta> because not even Ubuntu has this packaged.
Aug 19 00:05:08 <chomchom> jasta: can you not use this: http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/download.php?file=/eclipse/downloads/drops/R-3.4-200806172000/eclipse-SDK-3.4-linux-gtk.tar.gz?
Aug 19 00:05:10 <ttuttle> jasta: stable doesn't upgrade unless there's a security or stability problem.
Aug 19 00:05:11 <jasta> Debian surprises me less :)
Aug 19 00:05:15 <ttuttle> jasta: Ah, okay.
Aug 19 00:05:21 <ttuttle> jasta: I was gonna say, stable is supposed to be stable ;-)
Aug 19 00:05:48 <chomchom> http://eclipse.dzone.com/articles/how-run-eclipse-33-ubuntu-710
Aug 19 00:05:51 <jasta> you guys should clarify this on the docs, by the way.
Aug 19 00:05:58 <jasta> a lot of folks will be confused since Ubuntu is hugely popular.
Aug 19 00:06:07 <ttuttle> romainguy_: You should suggest to someone that they put something up about the new SDK on openhandsetalliance.com.
Aug 19 00:06:25 <romainguy_> jasta: a lot of folks will be confused since Ubuntu is hugely popular << you'd be surprised by how many people use the SDK on Window vs Mac/Linux :)
Aug 19 00:06:32 <ttuttle> romainguy_: It's sad, really.
Aug 19 00:06:42 <ttuttle> romainguy_: Poor lockwood :-(
Aug 19 00:07:07 <jasta> romainguy_: and therefore you should not consider Mac/Linux users?
Aug 19 00:07:16 <romainguy_> I did not say that
Aug 19 00:07:19 <steventroughtons> setOnKeyListener(android.view.View.OnKeyListener) in android.view.View cannot be applied to (com.steventroughtonsmith.androidnuker)
Aug 19 00:07:27 <steventroughtons> I guess you cant set the main java class to be a listener?
Aug 19 00:07:29 <jasta> here you were trying to bend over backwards to handhold someone in here and you don't agree that a useful blurb about packaging deserves a place on the download instructions?
Aug 19 00:07:35 <romainguy_> I'm just trying to balance your assertion about Ubuntu being "hugely" popular
Aug 19 00:07:43 <ttuttle> steventroughtons: Just add "implements android.view.View.OnKeyListener"?
Aug 19 00:08:03 <romainguy_> steventroughtons: you can, you need make the class implements OnKeyListener
Aug 19 00:08:06 <steventroughtons> that was simple
Aug 19 00:08:19 <ttuttle> steventroughtons: Oh, and implement the method(s) in OnKeyListener.
Aug 19 00:08:22 <romainguy_> you can also create a listener in place, by writing new View.OnKeyListener() { ... }
Aug 19 00:08:26 <chomchom> yeah I think there should be an amendment to the docs for ubuntu users
Aug 19 00:08:51 <ttuttle> There should just be a prominent warning saying "This version of the SDK now requires Eclipse 3.3." with some links to how to get it.
Aug 19 00:09:13 <romainguy_> ttuttle: agreed
Aug 19 00:09:22 <morrildl> yeah, we'll add that
Aug 19 00:09:44 * ttuttle needs to start developing actual Android activities.
Aug 19 00:10:29 <ttuttle> Waaaaaah, Settings doesn't work :-(
Aug 19 00:11:00 * ttuttle has been spoiled by running fresh development builds for three months on an actual phone.
Aug 19 00:11:52 <jasta> random thought: the skateboarding android logo is awesome.  you should promote that.
Aug 19 00:12:46 <morrildl> heh, the pirate logo is also quite popular
Aug 19 00:12:56 <ttuttle> There should be wallpapers available.
Aug 19 00:13:01 <romainguy_> they are
Aug 19 00:13:06 <ttuttle> (By should I mean I think they should do it, not that there are.)
Aug 19 00:13:10 <ttuttle> romainguy_: I mean phone wallpaper.
Aug 19 00:13:15 <romainguy_> ah
Aug 19 00:13:18 <romainguy_> no
Aug 19 00:13:20 <romainguy_> :p
Aug 19 00:13:44 <romainguy_> just put the 1024x768 versions on the emulator
Aug 19 00:13:47 <romainguy_> that should work ^^
Aug 19 00:13:47 <romainguy_> http://code.google.com/android/goodies/index.html
Aug 19 00:13:58 <jasta> romainguy_: what pirate?
Aug 19 00:14:23 <ttuttle> romainguy_: May I Gtalk you?
Aug 19 00:15:32 <romainguy_> jasta: I didn't talk about a pirate
Aug 19 00:15:45 <jasta> oh, morrildl i meant.  my eyes got lost.
Aug 19 00:16:09 <romainguy_> :)
Aug 19 00:17:16 <jasta> i feel dirty that i just deviated from Debian packages ;)
Aug 19 00:17:21 <ttuttle> jasta: It's okay.
Aug 19 00:17:25 <jasta> really dirty
Aug 19 00:20:36 <morrildl> jasta: maybe that's just on some t-shirts we had made for the team.  There is a version of the bugdroid with a peg leg and eye patch and a hook-hand
Aug 19 00:20:51 <jasta> that would be great.
Aug 19 00:20:57 <jasta> i have the skateboarding android shir t;)
Aug 19 00:21:00 <morrildl> jasta: I'm thinking we probably won't publicly expose that one though.  Android + Piracy? :)
Aug 19 00:21:01 <jasta> megha sent it to me.
Aug 19 00:21:05 <morrildl> jasta: nice
Aug 19 00:21:21 <jasta> yeah, my gf sleeps in at night.  hot. :)
Aug 19 00:21:26 <jasta> in it*
Aug 19 00:21:37 <morrildl> well they ARE very soft shirts
Aug 19 00:21:42 <sbok> What happened to the eclipse plugin? "https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/"
Aug 19 00:21:43 <morrildl> my wife stole mine too
Aug 19 00:21:52 <morrildl> sbok: there is no directory listing
Aug 19 00:22:00 <morrildl> you can still install it per the instructions
Aug 19 00:22:11 <morrildl> https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml
Aug 19 00:22:13 <morrildl> that should load
Aug 19 00:22:19 <jasta> hmm, clearly menu stuffs has changed
Aug 19 00:22:25 * jasta reads up
Aug 19 00:22:31 <sbok> okay, thanks
Aug 19 00:22:32 <morrildl> jasta: yes, there is a new parameter
Aug 19 00:22:38 <ttuttle> morrildl: Speaking of those... are there any extras?
Aug 19 00:24:28 <umdk1d3> hmmmmm
Aug 19 00:24:39 * umdk1d3 continues looking around for how to create home-screen widgets
Aug 19 00:24:48 <umdk1d3> anyone already tackling writing a tutorial on it?
Aug 19 00:24:52 <sbok> perhaps the android eclipse plugin page should be updated :-)
Aug 19 00:25:33 <umdk1d3> ive found android.widget.AnalogClock so far, but not sure if that is the home widget
Aug 19 00:25:35 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: you can't
Aug 19 00:25:38 <romainguy_> not in 1.0
Aug 19 00:25:46 <romainguy_> widgets are baked in Home
Aug 19 00:25:48 <umdk1d3> waaaaat :'(
Aug 19 00:25:52 <umdk1d3> not cool  :P
Aug 19 00:25:52 <romainguy_> but you can create custom shortcuts
Aug 19 00:26:04 <umdk1d3> hmm
Aug 19 00:26:05 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: we need to do it right for security reasons
Aug 19 00:26:11 <f00f-> or create a new/better Home :)
Aug 19 00:26:18 <umdk1d3> lol
Aug 19 00:26:23 <umdk1d3> security hmm
Aug 19 00:26:35 <umdk1d3> they could request always on top and take up the entire screen i guess
Aug 19 00:26:37 <romainguy_> you don't want any app's code to run in Home :)
Aug 19 00:26:59 <umdk1d3> true, they couuld walk up the view heirarchy and try messing with other stuff
Aug 19 00:27:16 <romainguy_> or just use Home's permissions to do bad things
Aug 19 00:27:22 <romainguy_> Home has access to a bunch of things
Aug 19 00:27:25 <umdk1d3> oh yea forgot about that  :/
Aug 19 00:28:22 <umdk1d3> since we are signing things now, is home signed correctly in such a way that we can start bruteforcing its private key?  ;)  lol
Aug 19 00:28:31 <umdk1d3> *the google private key
Aug 19 00:28:59 <umdk1d3> prolly has plenty of bits to make it take forever th
Aug 19 00:29:51 <jasta> romainguy_: there's a lot to learn from Home's source code here :)
Aug 19 00:29:55 * jasta is churning through it
Aug 19 00:30:04 * umdk1d3 chucles wondering how long android will be in "beta"
Aug 19 00:30:05 <romainguy_> jasta: yes :)
Aug 19 00:30:18 <jasta> it's this type of meat iwa s looking for since day 1
Aug 19 00:30:18 <sbok> gmail has been in beta for 4 years :-/
Aug 19 00:30:35 <ttuttle> sbok: heh
Aug 19 00:33:53 * jasta 's eagle eye spots a NPE possibility in the Home sample :)
Aug 19 00:34:04 <romainguy_> where?
Aug 19 00:34:22 <jasta> if manager.queryIntentActivities(...) returns null from loadApplications
Aug 19 00:34:26 <romainguy_> note that his code has been exercised quite a lot
Aug 19 00:34:43 <jasta> mApplications will not be initialized, and therefore onDestroy() will fail.
Aug 19 00:34:54 <romainguy_> yeah
Aug 19 00:34:58 <jasta> of course, you have bigger problems in that case, but still the symmetry looks bad :)
Aug 19 00:35:01 <romainguy_> for that to happen you need to remove all the applications
Aug 19 00:35:08 <romainguy_> not saying it cannot happen
Aug 19 00:35:14 <romainguy_> just that we don't give a shit :)
Aug 19 00:35:50 <jasta> why do you initialize it like that, though?
Aug 19 00:36:04 <romainguy_> like what?
Aug 19 00:36:05 <jasta> why not construct the HashMap statically and just declare mApplications final?
Aug 19 00:36:17 <jasta> (just curious, Java is not my native tongue)
Aug 19 00:36:28 <romainguy_> because that way I can initialize the arraylist with the proper size
Aug 19 00:36:35 <jasta> I'm JSL, Java as a Second Language :)
Aug 19 00:36:36 <romainguy_> it helps a litlte on the first startup
Aug 19 00:36:41 <romainguy_> either way would be fine
Aug 19 00:36:54 <jasta> oh, ok, i thought that might be it since you can learn the size it needs to be in loadApplications
Aug 19 00:39:58 <jasta> crap, View constructors changed.
Aug 19 00:40:10 <romainguy_> yes
Aug 19 00:40:23 <romainguy_> we just removed the Map parameter
Aug 19 00:40:31 <chomchom> I just bought a book on Android today... the peeps who come fresh to android Are going to have a heck of a time when they find so many of the names have been changed
Aug 19 00:40:32 <jasta> oh, that's more convenient actually.
Aug 19 00:40:36 <ttuttle> chomchom: heh
Aug 19 00:40:49 <ttuttle> chomchom: /me thinks it's funny that people are already writing books.  Do they not understand "early look"?
Aug 19 00:41:29 <romainguy_> the fundamentals don't change
Aug 19 00:41:31 * umdk1d3 dances around room
Aug 19 00:41:36 <romainguy_> Intents, Activities, layouts, etc. are still here
Aug 19 00:41:42 <chomchom> No the fundamentals are the same
Aug 19 00:41:54 <romainguy_> in the scope of a book, the changes we made in this SDK don't really matter
Aug 19 00:41:58 <romainguy_> sure they need to update the samples
Aug 19 00:42:13 <romainguy_> but it's very unlikely to impact the structure or the content of the book in a significant way
Aug 19 00:42:46 <chomchom> but it will still hit them a bit to see that there is no such thing as OnFreeze() and such. They won't necessarily be savy enough to check the JDiff of the versions or the changelog
Aug 19 00:43:11 <romainguy_> I'm pretty sure they'll check the changelogs
Aug 19 00:43:11 <chomchom> yeah, thats why I was asking if the author was in here
Aug 19 00:43:24 * jasta scratches his head
Aug 19 00:43:35 <chomchom> his publishers will be pretty miffed with him no doubt
Aug 19 00:43:46 <romainguy_> what book are you talking about?
Aug 19 00:43:55 <romainguy_> Mark Murphy is publishing it on his own I think
Aug 19 00:43:58 <jasta> PaintDrawable was changed in a strange way?
Aug 19 00:44:08 <romainguy_> jasta: define strange
Aug 19 00:44:14 <jasta> you removed setPaint? :)
Aug 19 00:44:20 <ttuttle> romainguy_: Do you know where the keycode constants are?
Aug 19 00:44:32 <chomchom> The "busy coders" android book ?: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Busy-Coders-Guide-Android-Development/dp/0981678009/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219097259&sr=1-10
Aug 19 00:44:37 <romainguy_> jasta: yup, now you getPaint() instead
Aug 19 00:44:44 <romainguy_> ttuttle: KeyEvent
Aug 19 00:44:55 <romainguy_> chomchom: yeah he's is own publisher
Aug 19 00:44:56 <jasta> oh ok. t hen i modify the paint?
Aug 19 00:45:01 <romainguy_> that's right
Aug 19 00:45:19 <romainguy_> PaintDrawable is now a ShapeDrawable, which makes it much more useful
Aug 19 00:45:40 <jasta> i was using it previously to make a tiled bitmap drawable
Aug 19 00:45:47 <romainguy_> no need too
Aug 19 00:45:47 <jasta> i bet there's probably a better way now anyway?
Aug 19 00:45:49 <romainguy_> to
Aug 19 00:45:53 <romainguy_> BitmapDrawable supports tiling now
Aug 19 00:46:00 <romainguy_> launch the maps application
Aug 19 00:46:18 <romainguy_> it looks like it starts really fast because the theme defines a window background that uses tiling in a BitmapDrawable
Aug 19 00:46:22 <chomchom> ah, so he'll be kicking himself
Aug 19 00:46:41 <jasta> romainguy_: can i get a bitmap drawable from a resource and just set its tile mode then?
Aug 19 00:46:41 <romainguy_> example:
Aug 19 00:46:42 <romainguy_> <bitmap xmlns:android="http://schemas.android.com/apk/res/android"
Aug 19 00:46:42 <romainguy_>     android:src="@drawable/empty_tile" android:tileMode="repeat" />
Aug 19 00:46:46 <romainguy_> jasta: yes
Aug 19 00:46:49 <hacked_kernel> Where to find the supported devices?
Aug 19 00:47:28 <jasta> romainguy_: excellent, that trimmed down a few lines from this project :)
Aug 19 00:47:51 <hacked_kernel> I want to know the requirements that should be found on a mobile phone to run Android OS
Aug 19 00:48:16 <jasta> romainguy_: unrelated to the latest SDK, but what is the defStyle form of the view constructor used for?  would i ever want to worry about overriding that?
Aug 19 00:48:34 <romainguy_> it's very specific
Aug 19 00:48:44 <romainguy_> for instance a Button is a TextView with a buttonStyle defStyle
Aug 19 00:48:52 <romainguy_> you probably don't ever want to even bother with it
Aug 19 00:49:19 <romainguy_> it's also what's supplied when you use style="..." in XML
Aug 19 00:52:31 <jasta> grr, insurance is such a scam
Aug 19 00:52:46 <ttuttle> jasta: lol
Aug 19 00:53:11 <jasta> i was in the hospital for less than 12 hours 2 years ago and got slapped with a $3000 bill from the hospital, *AFTER* insurance paid their portion.
Aug 19 00:53:26 <romainguy_> haah
Aug 19 00:53:30 <romainguy_> I got that a year ago
Aug 19 00:53:38 <romainguy_> my insurance ended up paying for everything
Aug 19 00:53:50 <romainguy_> but only after a few months
Aug 19 00:53:59 <dmoffett> jasta: it would really make you sick if you knew how much my brother in law makes as an insurance executive.  The salaries are offensive.
Aug 19 00:54:04 * romainguy_ misses France sometimes :)
Aug 19 00:54:06 <ttuttle> dmoffett:
Aug 19 00:54:13 <ttuttle> dmoffett: Feel free to kick some of that back to the channel.
Aug 19 00:54:51 <jasta> oh yeah by the way and it was because of criminal assault.  so i paid $3000 to get beat up outside of a bar.  really cool.
Aug 19 00:55:00 <ttuttle> jasta: That sucks big-time.
Aug 19 00:55:07 <jasta> and i lost $800 in pay from my work for extended disability
Aug 19 00:55:08 <ttuttle> jasta: Did they catch the attacker?
Aug 19 00:55:15 <jasta> ttuttle: if they did i wouldnt have had to pay anything
Aug 19 00:55:20 <jasta> and it was 5 guys
Aug 19 00:55:21 <ttuttle> jasta: Yeah, I was gonna say.
Aug 19 00:55:21 <jasta> so...
Aug 19 00:55:23 <ttuttle> jasta: Ouch.
Aug 19 00:55:38 * ttuttle -> voicemail.
Aug 19 00:57:47 <jasta> i just got my latest bill forwarded to me because i was trying to fight it
Aug 19 00:57:49 <jasta> they billed me over 3 increments
Aug 19 00:57:58 <jasta> and i called it a scam so i fought them on the last one
Aug 19 00:58:03 <jasta> and i lost, of course, despite any real documentation.
Aug 19 00:58:12 <jasta> i'd have to take them to court over $1k, and its not worth it.
Aug 19 00:58:32 <ttuttle> jasta: Yeah, that becomes a bad deal eventually.
Aug 19 00:58:38 <chomchom> romainguy__: just to let you know, there are a few dead links from the JDiff output: http://code.google.com/android/migrating/m5-0.9/changes/pkg_android.content.html#Resources
Aug 19 00:59:09 <chomchom> click around at the bottom on the right
Aug 19 01:02:18 <jasta> nice touch on the calculator app guys
Aug 19 01:04:30 <jasta> romainguy_: may i make a suggestion for the alarm app?
Aug 19 01:04:36 <romainguy_> sure
Aug 19 01:04:41 <jasta> let us create "relative" alarms like a "Nap alarm" for +1h.
Aug 19 01:04:49 <jasta> and then keep in the ability to check/uncheck them in.
Aug 19 01:04:58 <jasta> so i could easily one click on a nap alarm
Aug 19 01:05:00 <jasta> and go take a nap
Aug 19 01:05:50 <chomchom> thats a nice idea but does differ from convention
Aug 19 01:05:57 <chomchom> A few classes seem to have completely disappeared from the JDiff output. PixelCalculator isn't mentioned but it looks to have certainly been removed.
Aug 19 01:10:35 <jasta> romainguy_: did you take any more of the backgrounds in the wallpaper selection?
Aug 19 01:10:53 <romainguy_> all of them
Aug 19 01:11:17 <romainguy_> they're all under Creative Commons on my Flickr account
Aug 19 01:14:08 <morrildl> jasta: that would be an awesome use of a Home screen shortcut
Aug 19 01:14:31 <morrildl> create a "Now + 1h" shortcut that jumps straight to the new-alarm screen in Alarm
Aug 19 01:15:19 <morrildl> chomchom: hmm, thanks, I will check into the jdiff output
Aug 19 01:16:03 <chomchom> JDiff is awesome
Aug 19 01:24:00 <Dougie187> morrildl: i bet your happy that jasta is happy with the new sdk
Aug 19 01:24:27 <Dougie187> it sure makes your job a bit easier.
Aug 19 01:24:28 <Dougie187> heh
Aug 19 01:25:18 <chomchom> give him a day and he'll be picketting
Aug 19 01:25:50 <Dougie187> eh, he doesn't tend to to flip-flop that much.
Aug 19 01:30:06 <Dougie187> anyways, im out
Aug 19 01:30:08 <Dougie187> see ya later
Aug 19 01:30:22 <meoblast001> Dougie lol
Aug 19 01:30:32 <meoblast001> thats a funny name
Aug 19 01:30:50 <meoblast001> well... not really
Aug 19 01:30:53 <meoblast001> just a little
Aug 19 01:34:49 <chomchom> So is there now no architecture recognition of a sub activity? With the removal of startSubActivity . The system now just recognises it as a sub activity when started form within another?
Aug 19 01:35:15 <dmoffett> For a row layout in a ListView where you would like the columns to align vertically which layout would be best?  Currently I am using Absolute layout which has broken with the latest sdk.
Aug 19 01:35:39 <romainguy_> chomchom: startSubActivity==startActivityForResult
Aug 19 01:35:56 <romainguy_> dmoffett: AbsoluteLayout should not be broken
Aug 19 01:36:00 <romainguy_> and you should not be using it anyway
Aug 19 01:36:05 <dmoffett> right
Aug 19 01:36:15 <romainguy_> what's broken with AbsoluteLayout?
Aug 19 01:36:20 <dmoffett> so I am taking the opportunity to re-write.
Aug 19 01:36:59 <chomchom> Ah thx
Aug 19 01:37:03 <dmoffett> Sorry I should have said I am using methods that are no longer supported.
Aug 19 01:37:12 <romainguy_> ah :)
Aug 19 01:38:07 <dmoffett> Just getting a nice Eclipse crash loading an xml file btw.
Aug 19 01:38:23 <romainguy_> tell that to xavd :)
Aug 19 01:38:31 <dmoffett> Looking for the bug url.
Aug 19 01:41:37 <chomchom> With the removal of OpenDatabase and then addition of openOrCreateDatabase(String, int, CursorFactory) does that mean an app is only allowed one DB?
Aug 19 01:41:56 <romainguy_> ask jham :)
Aug 19 01:41:58 <romainguy_> when he's around
Aug 19 01:45:04 <chomchom> jham eh? I've never even noticed him. Hes a quiet one.
Aug 19 01:51:22 <morrildl_> jham is here?
Aug 19 01:51:37 <romainguy_> he was earlier today
Aug 19 01:56:58 <xavd> dmoffett: do you have the .log for the eclipe crash?
Aug 19 01:57:19 <dmoffett> working on getting the information together.
Aug 19 01:58:56 <dmoffett> xavd: where is the .log file written on OSX?
Aug 19 01:59:09 <xavd> in your workspace under the .metadata folder
Aug 19 01:59:23 <dmoffett> thanks
Aug 19 02:00:57 <dmoffett> xavd: I was about to open a bug or would you have me do it another way?
Aug 19 02:01:05 <xavd> bug is fine
Aug 19 02:06:34 <dmoffett> xavd: Issue 797
Aug 19 02:06:41 <xavd> thanks!
Aug 19 02:07:20 <dmoffett> xavd: dinner for me but if you need more info let me know.
Aug 19 02:07:58 <xavd> ok thanks
Aug 19 02:22:09 <chomchom> Argh
Aug 19 02:22:13 <chomchom> I am defeated
Aug 19 02:22:32 <chomchom> its 3:22am, I don't think I've been kept up so late by android since the ADC
Aug 19 02:25:52 <chomchom> nighty
Aug 19 02:26:18 <ttuttle> lol
Aug 19 02:26:22 <ttuttle> 'night
Aug 19 02:55:57 <muthu> wohooo!
Aug 19 02:57:39 <muthu> any feedbacks on 0.9?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 19 02:59:56 2008