**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 01 02:59:56 2008
Sep 01 05:14:51 <gambler> what is the smallest, simplest good open source Inversion of Control framework
Sep 01 05:14:54 <gambler> oops
Sep 01 05:14:56 <gambler> wrong channel
Sep 01 05:15:21 <muthu> pico
Sep 01 05:15:34 <gambler> aight
Sep 01 05:35:33 <cbeust_> Go wit Guice
Sep 01 05:35:37 <cbeust_> with*
Sep 01 05:36:24 <muthu> seam is also nice
Sep 01 05:36:41 <cbeust_> Don't use Seam if all you need is a DI framework
Sep 01 05:37:06 <muthu> agree, seam has a lot more
Sep 01 05:38:14 <muthu> cbeust_: testng under active development?
Sep 01 05:38:37 <cbeust_> It's slowed down but still active, yes
Sep 01 05:39:01 <muthu> great job on tesng
Sep 01 05:39:09 <cbeust_> Thanks!
Sep 01 05:39:33 <muthu> any chance we get tesng for android ;)
Sep 01 05:39:46 <cbeust_> hehe
Sep 01 05:39:49 <cbeust_> We thought about it of course
Sep 01 05:39:55 <cbeust_> but I recommended against it, it's too heavy for that
Sep 01 05:40:07 <muthu> yeah, was  a bit surprised about junit support
Sep 01 05:42:03 <muthu> what's the best way to test android projects?
Sep 01 05:42:41 <cbeust_> We have a full instrumentation framework for that, part of the SDK
Sep 01 05:43:07 <muthu> but the docs sux
Sep 01 05:55:31 <jasta> muthu: didn't you just tell me it was pointless to test?
Sep 01 05:55:51 <muthu> jasta: yes, given the current state of the instrumentation framework
Sep 01 05:56:24 <jasta> well actually i'd say except for the limitation i found, it seems quite usable.
Sep 01 05:56:28 <jasta> and very sophisticated
Sep 01 05:56:41 <jasta> which is why it's so frustrating, really
Sep 01 05:57:00 <muthu> yeah, so there are limitations
Sep 01 05:57:19 <jasta> i shouldn't even say limitation: it seems to merely be a bug that should be fixed.
Sep 01 05:57:34 <jasta> but i don't know enough about it, and apparently neither does Google.
Sep 01 05:57:56 <muthu> right
Sep 01 05:58:15 <jasta> still i wouldn't call it a waste of time.  i don't know where you got that attitude.
Sep 01 05:58:29 <muthu> haha
Sep 01 05:58:35 <muthu> its a waste of time for me!
Sep 01 06:00:50 <muthu> today is the beginning..
Sep 01 06:00:56 <muthu> of something big...
Sep 01 06:01:05 <jasta> oh yeah?
Sep 01 06:01:20 <muthu> ooh yeah
Sep 01 06:01:30 <jasta> actually, i don't care what you have to say.
Sep 01 06:01:51 <muthu> really?
Sep 01 06:02:05 <muthu> k, listen
Sep 01 06:02:15 <muthu> i'm going to tell you something
Sep 01 06:02:57 <muthu> jasta: let me ask your opinion
Sep 01 06:03:15 <muthu> if you look at the top 10, there are a couple of shopping apps that won
Sep 01 07:50:49 * umdk1d3 continues to wonder about rotating Views regardless of Activity rotation
Sep 01 08:00:52 * anno^da_ wonders if it is possible to use GPL licensed icons in a closed source project.
Sep 01 08:02:52 <cutmasta> mornin
Sep 01 08:03:20 <umdk1d3> hmm are image files dynamically or statically linked
Sep 01 08:05:33 <anno^da_> well in the case of image files I dont really know how to decide if thery are dynamically oder statically
Sep 01 08:07:20 <umdk1d3> might check if the icons are under multiple licenses
Sep 01 08:09:05 <anno^da_> yeah well I'm just walking through the different licenses and icon sets. Talking about the following CC license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ I would assume that it can not be used in closed source projects. The point is if the sentence " or build upon this work" considers the whole project as my "work".
Sep 01 08:13:01 <umdk1d3> tango i take it?  ;)
Sep 01 08:13:21 <anno^da_> Yeah for example tango but there are a lot of other ones
Sep 01 08:13:30 <anno^da_> in Apache 2 projectes it is no problem
Sep 01 08:13:43 <anno^da_> but closed source hmm well I dont know
Sep 01 08:14:27 <umdk1d3> "It is also possible for proprietary closed source applications to use Tango Desktop Project icons, provided they follow the license directives. Examples highlighted by the Tango Showroom include VMware Workstation 6 and Medsphere OpenVista CIS."  --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango_Desktop_Project
Sep 01 08:14:58 <umdk1d3> ive always thought of it as any derivative icons you create go back to the project
Sep 01 08:15:04 <umdk1d3> but it doesnt have any impact on the rest of your program
Sep 01 08:15:12 <umdk1d3> or other privately-created icons you might use
Sep 01 08:15:53 <anno^da_> Yeah ok. I was just wondering about the above mentioned sentence.
Sep 01 08:16:14 <anno^da_> What means built upon this work. :)
Sep 01 08:16:55 <anno^da_> If I use them in a commercial project I'm builing upon the icons. Without the icons I wouldnt have a working GUI. :)
Sep 01 08:18:14 <umdk1d3> mmm nope
Sep 01 08:18:34 <umdk1d3> your not creating a derivative work from the icons, your using them verbatim
Sep 01 08:19:36 <anno^da_> ok. So the term "work" is fixed to the icons.
Sep 01 08:20:21 <umdk1d3> thats my interpritation, yes
Sep 01 08:20:30 <umdk1d3> and from the wikipedia quote above, i think its the general understanding as well
Sep 01 08:21:02 <anno^da_> Yeah after reading through the tango mailing list it seems so :)
Sep 01 08:23:38 * umdk1d3 wonders where the drawables for tab backgrounds are hiding
Sep 01 08:25:40 <moccuo> android is awesome
Sep 01 08:27:19 <anno^da_> it is. :) But it's not awesome that the HTC Dream is not coming to Europe in October
Sep 01 08:27:49 <moccuo> aah, thats rough
Sep 01 08:28:35 <anno^da_> (this mentioned a member of HTC at the IFA in Berlin)
Sep 01 08:28:58 <anno^da_> "They want to minimize the risk"
Sep 01 08:34:35 <Miek> anno^da_: that sucks :(
Sep 01 08:35:41 <tomgibara> anno^da_: Did they mention any timeframe for a europe release?
Sep 01 08:36:36 <snadge> im going to be in the usa in november.. it will be available there?
Sep 01 08:37:01 <snadge> im from australia and doubt they will release here same time as usa
Sep 01 08:38:24 <anno^da_> tomgibara: Not really.
Sep 01 08:40:24 <anno^da_> From what they said I dont expect it to happen in 2008. But perhaps the success in the US will change their minds.
Sep 01 08:40:56 <tomgibara> I'm interested to see (1) how rapidly phones become available in territories outside North America and (2) how Google structure the ADCII if there are territories without phones.
Sep 01 08:41:21 <anno^da_> 2) can become very important
Sep 01 08:42:03 <anno^da_> If they dont want to upset coders again they should make them available as soon as possible for countries outside the us
Sep 01 08:42:22 <anno^da_> (- coder + developers :) )
Sep 01 08:43:32 <anno^da_> From my point of view the markets outside the US are a lot more interesting for Android enabled phones.
Sep 01 08:45:06 <tomgibara> I don't think that's entirely true, on the basis that the US mobile telecom market is so degenerate - Andriod and the iPhone are very important in the US
Sep 01 08:45:28 <tomgibara> But Android's largest potential markets certainly exist outside the US
Sep 01 08:46:02 <tomgibara> Also remember that (iirc) approx. half the developers in the first challenge were from the US.
Sep 01 08:46:42 <anno^da_> Ok thats true.
Sep 01 08:47:10 <snadge> thats cos.. where else but in america, can you afford to enter a competition.. for a device that doesnt even exist yet
Sep 01 08:47:19 <snadge> hehe
Sep 01 08:47:59 <anno^da_> Mhh I dont think that it has something to do with the US itself
Sep 01 08:48:05 <tomgibara> snadge: There are lots of reasons
Sep 01 08:48:34 <anno^da_> I would say: No other than Google can afford entering such a competition.
Sep 01 08:49:49 <tomgibara> Greater density of software developers, more disposable income/time, and simple cultural bias, perhaps even implicit support for US companies.
Sep 01 08:54:05 <anno^da_> But in contrast you have locked up networks which dont really fit tothether with an open system Android wants to be.
Sep 01 08:55:11 <snadge> i kind of see android as a trojan horse in the american market
Sep 01 08:55:25 <snadge> the networks will open up AFTER it is released.. not before
Sep 01 08:55:41 <snadge> and you can bet they will do everything to try and make google strip features from android that they dont approve of
Sep 01 08:57:16 <snadge> theres nothing stopping these features being added back in again after launch
Sep 01 08:57:45 <anno^da_> Yeah I'm with you in that point. I just think that it would be easier to start Android outside the US. Or let me say it in a different way. It would be no problem to start it outside the US as well.
Sep 01 08:58:37 <snadge> im amused at the impact it will have in the mainstream media
Sep 01 08:58:41 <anno^da_> And yeah they will try to remove the features (like video recording atm) but they wont succeed.
Sep 01 08:58:57 <snadge> here in australia for example, they didnt shut up about google street view for about 2 days
Sep 01 08:59:10 <anno^da_> I'm worried how easy it will be to install custom builts of Android on the real hardware.
Sep 01 08:59:20 <romainguy> anno^da_: missing features have nothing to do with carriers
Sep 01 08:59:28 <anno^da_> romainguy: ok.
Sep 01 08:59:40 <romainguy> it's just a question of time, resources, priority, etc.
Sep 01 08:59:46 <anno^da_> Just thought it was a
Sep 01 08:59:50 <snadge> theres probably some reality setting in.. too much to do in a small amount of time
Sep 01 09:00:10 <snadge> easier to concentrate the same amount of resources on a smaller scope.. to end up with a higher quality result
Sep 01 09:00:32 <snadge> which can be added to easily later
Sep 01 09:00:57 <anno^da_> romainguy: A different question. Will it be possible to install custom builts on the devices.
Sep 01 09:01:21 <snadge> of course.. but think of it in exactly the same way people think of linux today
Sep 01 09:01:41 <snadge> when you report a problem or a bug.. the first thing thats established is what version you're running, and if theres any custom patchsets etc
Sep 01 09:02:13 <anno^da_> snadge: Well on my linux machine I dont have a read only memory storing my distribution.
Sep 01 09:02:17 <snadge> if the answer is yes, then you're asked to reproduce the problem with a standard release.. if you can't, you are probably then told to get stuffed
Sep 01 09:03:10 <snadge> it wont be rom though, im presuming its some kind of flash memory
Sep 01 09:04:46 <anno^da_> Well just read that. The reason was a possibiliy to recover the system. But I dont really believe that.
Sep 01 09:10:39 <snadge> makes sense.. go back to version 1.0.. aka, holy shit i've bricked my brand new expensive phone
Sep 01 09:10:49 <snadge> hehe
Sep 01 09:11:27 <snadge> and to then have the manufacturer turn around and say "sorry buddy.. we dont cover dodgy self installed hacks"
Sep 01 09:12:24 <snadge> or charge you $60 to "reset" it
Sep 01 09:16:21 <anno^da_> Well and thats the point I dont understand. On the desktop system you dont need that mechanism. And it works pretty fine for millions of users.
Sep 01 09:18:06 <snadge> the equivalent on the desktop would be to flash your BIOS
Sep 01 09:18:22 <snadge> and brick your motherboard.. this is why some motherboards come with a spare bios thats in rom
Sep 01 09:18:39 <snadge> most people dont update their bios.. they're very simple, and generally dont need updating
Sep 01 09:18:48 <umdk1d3> people brick winmo phones here all the time
Sep 01 09:18:53 <umdk1d3> and then reflash them
Sep 01 09:19:03 <umdk1d3> even from home over usb
Sep 01 09:20:11 <anno^da_> snadge: Ok that is true but I wouldnt compare the OS to the BIOS.
Sep 01 09:22:04 <snadge> in a mobile phone.. the difference between the OS and the BIOS is less defined (i would think)
Sep 01 09:22:35 <umdk1d3> there is still a bios
Sep 01 09:22:46 <umdk1d3> same as in pc--its just enough to bootstrap into the firmware image
Sep 01 09:22:59 <umdk1d3> probably where the low-level splash screen is stored too
Sep 01 09:23:19 <snadge> right.. so you can think of reflashing your phone.. as updating the kernel.. and whatever other system libraries etc are installed
Sep 01 09:24:12 <snadge> but if you wreck your phone, you still need a way to get back to a working system.. in a pc, you can insert storage medium and boot off it
Sep 01 09:24:26 <umdk1d3> also, that lowlevel bios knows just enough to watch usb cable and receive an new firmware image to overwrite whats on the device
Sep 01 09:24:41 <umdk1d3> so even if you bork a firmware upgrade, or it gets corrupt, the bios can still help you write a new one
Sep 01 09:25:14 <snadge> does htc's other phones (eg the tytn II specifically) use arm cpu also?
Sep 01 09:25:32 <umdk1d3> im assuming theyll take this approach, because other mobile devices have had good luck with its model--specifically the n810
Sep 01 09:25:45 <umdk1d3> umm not sure, i think a lot of winmo phones are arm based
Sep 01 09:26:08 <umdk1d3> but i dont think it will be easy to just hack android over to existing devices
Sep 01 09:26:08 <snadge> was wondering why the decision to go with arm.. but if winmo does it, that makes a lot more sense
Sep 01 09:26:50 <umdk1d3> arm is used on a lot of embedded and mobile stuff because of power usage iirc
Sep 01 09:27:11 <umdk1d3> "dominant in the mobile electronics market, where low power consumption is a critical design goal" --wikipedia
Sep 01 09:28:17 <Miek> snadge: the tytn ii uses arm
Sep 01 09:31:06 <umdk1d3> gahhh /me rips hair out
Sep 01 09:31:20 <umdk1d3> this would be alot easier if i could rotate individual View s
Sep 01 09:44:15 <romainguy> umdk1d3: it's not very hard to rotate views
Sep 01 09:44:21 <romainguy> unless you want to rotate the touch events as well
Sep 01 09:47:44 <umdk1d3> oh?
Sep 01 09:48:12 <umdk1d3> for example, i have a listview in a landscape Activity
Sep 01 09:48:27 <umdk1d3> and it would be awesome for it to appear like it does in a normal portrait Activity
Sep 01 09:48:47 <umdk1d3> (there is other stuff in the landscape view that needs to be landscape)
Sep 01 09:49:23 <umdk1d3> and im kinda rewriting TabView to make the tabs run along the left-edge of landscape screen
Sep 01 09:49:24 <romainguy> that sounds weird that you need to mix both landscape and portrait...
Sep 01 09:49:44 * umdk1d3 kicks stupid camera  :P
Sep 01 10:54:11 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: The new Camera APIs really make everything much more difficult don't they :(
Sep 01 10:57:14 <EQU> tomgibara: I don't agree with you :) now you have a jpg stream ( btw. with strange guy :) ), what ese you want ?
Sep 01 10:57:21 <EQU> else*
Sep 01 10:58:30 <tomgibara> EQU: I'm guessing that umdk1d3 is trying to write an app that uses the camera efficiently, without being in landscape
Sep 01 10:58:44 <tomgibara> That sort of difficultly is just for starters
Sep 01 10:59:09 <EQU> tomgibara: oh, i see, do yuo recognize this guy ?
Sep 01 10:59:23 <EQU> tomgibara: result of Camera.takePicture() ?
Sep 01 10:59:51 <tomgibara> There's no way of getting byte data at a different resolution from that displayed either, which kills it for many sensible applications
Sep 01 11:00:06 <tomgibara> EQU: I'm talking about camera previews
Sep 01 11:01:59 <tomgibara> I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that no-one likes the new Camera preview capabilities
Sep 01 11:02:43 <tomgibara> They add complexity for performance, but aren't powerful enough to do anything but the most simple tasks
Sep 01 11:03:15 <tomgibara> I'd be happy if someone demonstrated that I'm wrong
Sep 01 11:04:30 <EQU> tomgibara: maybe i'am wrog, but thera 2 functions
Sep 01 11:04:42 <EQU> first: setPictureSize() - set size for taken picture
Sep 01 11:05:06 <EQU> second: setPreviewSize() - set preview size :)|
Sep 01 11:05:23 <EQU> so you want make for example a zoom ?
Sep 01 11:06:13 <tomgibara> No, I want (amongst other things) to get callback data at a different resolution from that displayed on the surface.
Sep 01 11:08:22 <EQU> tomgibara: i think, yours features are hidden at "set(String key, int value)" function :)
Sep 01 11:08:43 <EQU> tomgibara: no documented  at the momment :(
Sep 01 11:13:33 <gambler> I need a reasonable aspectJ compiler that generates source code. Any ideas? I see at least 15 or so on the AOP wikipedia article.
Sep 01 11:14:28 <gambler> The abc compiler has a java out option but the code is decompiled (instead of generated) and therefore ugly.
Sep 01 11:25:17 <Acsia> gm
Sep 01 12:42:39 <umdk1d3> EQU: thats the boss from office space, right?
Sep 01 12:44:00 <umdk1d3> tomgibara: part of the camera api changes i can understand
Sep 01 12:44:11 <umdk1d3> as they are trying to actually make it work reasonablly fast with actual hardware
Sep 01 12:45:23 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: Yes, that's obvious - as I already stated above: They added complexity for performance
Sep 01 12:45:44 <tomgibara> But what results is impractical
Sep 01 12:45:54 <umdk1d3> true
Sep 01 12:46:00 <tomgibara> All of the inefficiency is then piled onto the application code instead
Sep 01 12:46:14 <umdk1d3> thats 1.0 for ya tho  ;)
Sep 01 12:47:58 <tomgibara> Only if you employ poor practices
Sep 01 13:00:55 <davidw> wow... this email from a 'phd candidate' wondering if there are any android phones
Sep 01 13:01:12 * davidw doesn't have a phd, but does know how to find things on the internet
Sep 01 13:03:11 <anno^da_> :)
Sep 01 13:03:23 <anno^da_> I've read that as well.
Sep 01 13:08:15 <gambler> maybe he is a lazy genius. linky?
Sep 01 13:23:56 <umdk1d3> "Dear Kind Heart, I Am A Member Of The Royal Family Of Madeupistan And Have 2,000 Android Phones But Require Your Aid To Clear Them Rapidly Through Customs"
Sep 01 13:26:13 <muthu> lol
Sep 01 13:26:36 <umdk1d3> hey muthu hows it goin  :)
Sep 01 13:26:47 <muthu> goin great
Sep 01 13:26:59 <umdk1d3> im havin a tough time staying motivated since thursday lol
Sep 01 13:27:07 <muthu> haha
Sep 01 13:27:38 <muthu> i know, millionaires are hard to get motivated ;)
Sep 01 13:27:44 <umdk1d3> holiday today tho  ^.^
Sep 01 13:28:02 <muthu> oh, its a long weekend..
Sep 01 13:28:12 <umdk1d3> yep labor day
Sep 01 13:28:21 <muthu> cool
Sep 01 13:28:26 <muthu> i'm working on something new
Sep 01 13:28:34 <muthu> so motivation is aplenty!
Sep 01 13:29:06 <umdk1d3> hehe  :)
Sep 01 13:31:40 <muthu> right now, you should've got some deals
Sep 01 13:31:47 <muthu> anyone up yet?
Sep 01 13:33:02 <umdk1d3> theyre all sleeping in  :P  only 730am here atm
Sep 01 13:33:55 <anno^da_> Yeah I'm up
Sep 01 13:34:03 * umdk1d3 goes to find coffee
Sep 01 13:34:06 <anno^da_> the rest is sleeping silently :)
Sep 01 13:40:52 <gambler> i think my windows PC just got owned again. I guess 3 virus scanners isnt enough
Sep 01 13:44:18 <muthu> windows sux
Sep 01 13:44:42 <gambler> yep
Sep 01 13:44:48 <muthu> my laptop is virus free for the last 3 years
Sep 01 13:44:54 <muthu> one less thing to worry
Sep 01 13:45:16 <gambler> I use it because I spread my desktop across 3 monitors and then vnc into my linux machines
Sep 01 13:45:55 <muthu> i'm not using anything fancy
Sep 01 13:46:08 <gambler> I wonder if linux multimon is there yet...I am getting sick of this
Sep 01 13:46:16 <muthu> should be
Sep 01 13:47:23 <muthu> and have seamlessly upgraded from fedora 6 to 9
Sep 01 13:47:48 <muthu> without any data loss
Sep 01 13:48:26 <muthu> since switching to linux, its been fantastic
Sep 01 13:49:25 <umdk1d3> <3 linux
Sep 01 13:49:41 <gambler> yeah its better for developers... Since im not doing my other thing anymore I probably can change back again... I used to be a hardcore linux user but I got pretty tired of some of the b.s.
Sep 01 13:50:36 <cutmasta> are they old : http://gizmodo.com/5043836/more-htc-dream-pictures-leaked
Sep 01 13:50:37 <cutmasta> ?
Sep 01 13:50:41 <cutmasta> never saw them before
Sep 01 13:51:07 <gambler> a few days
Sep 01 13:52:04 <muthu> wonder whether htc dream will be available oct 18 in india
Sep 01 13:52:20 <gambler> I hate to say it but that phone looks really gay.
Sep 01 13:52:36 <gambler> How are you meant to use the trackball with such a big phone
Sep 01 13:54:22 <muthu> to me it looks functional
Sep 01 13:55:17 <muthu> the best thing is its no way resembles iphone
Sep 01 13:55:28 <umdk1d3> yea esp a /real/ keyboard
Sep 01 13:55:33 <gambler> I just hope more than one android phone comes out.
Sep 01 13:56:48 <muthu> yeah, that's the promise
Sep 01 13:57:08 <muthu> is the sliding view in home screen available in the api?
Sep 01 13:57:21 <umdk1d3> the panning left/right?
Sep 01 13:57:30 <muthu> no the pull up/down
Sep 01 13:57:43 <muthu> where you have the app icons
Sep 01 13:57:47 <umdk1d3> oh hmm havent seen it anywhere
Sep 01 13:57:52 <umdk1d3> seems like a modified grid view
Sep 01 13:58:01 <muthu> it would be a nice widget to use
Sep 01 14:14:04 <gambler> aspectJ should win an award for the least accessible source code for an open source project
Sep 01 14:23:47 <gambler> yay found it
Sep 01 14:34:57 <muthu> most of the frameworks bundle them
Sep 01 15:32:57 <umdk1d3> how do you show an overlayed search view at the top of your activity?
Sep 01 15:33:10 <umdk1d3> like in the maps app when you hit the search menu option
Sep 01 15:33:18 <umdk1d3> it darkens the map and shows the search above it
Sep 01 15:37:34 <umdk1d3> aha   "The search UI is presented as a floating window and does not cause any change in the activity stack. "
Sep 01 15:48:27 * umdk1d3 is starting to understand how android fits together
Sep 01 15:48:36 <umdk1d3> but man its hard to see
Sep 01 15:49:14 <umdk1d3> SearchManager doc page should be required reading for any serious android developer
Sep 01 15:56:20 <pandora--> MORNIN!
Sep 01 15:56:23 <pandora--> ooh caps
Sep 01 15:56:29 <pandora--> and wrong channel!
Sep 01 15:56:52 <pandora--> well, i haven't done android in a few months, i suck
Sep 01 15:59:01 <SanMehat> mornin
Sep 01 17:48:13 <umdk1d3> hmm
Sep 01 17:48:45 <umdk1d3> what Intent should i use to properly show the android.intent.action.SEARCH   singleTop searchbox?
Sep 01 17:49:03 <umdk1d3> just using the SEARCH action reverts to system-wide search
Sep 01 17:49:27 <umdk1d3> and specifying either the current class, or the target class that has the SEARCH intent-filter doesnt work
Sep 01 17:50:14 <umdk1d3> im using a null uri right now
Sep 01 17:52:01 <umdk1d3> aha looks like i should be using  onSearchRequested(); instead of an intent
Sep 01 19:44:43 <trigatch4> Hi everyone
Sep 01 19:45:15 <trigatch4> morrildl you around?
Sep 01 21:17:34 <bricode> Does Android have any window manager dependencies?
Sep 02 01:42:48 <moccuo> i can't wait for the htc dream
Sep 02 01:42:52 <moccuo> :)
Sep 02 01:43:16 <catzilla> me neither
Sep 02 01:43:25 <catzilla> i hope it's not crap
Sep 02 01:43:29 <plusminus_> hey there
Sep 02 01:43:33 <catzilla> hi
Sep 02 01:43:43 <plusminus_> android:textAlign is gone, anyone knows how it is called now?
Sep 02 01:44:33 <romainguy_> android:gravity
Sep 02 01:44:45 <snadge> well the iphone is crap.. winmo is crap
Sep 02 01:45:01 <snadge> on that note, apparently v7 of winmo is coming out.. is that an android killer? :P j/k
Sep 02 01:45:19 <moccuo> iphone is nice, imo
Sep 02 01:45:21 <snadge> i do know nothing about it though
Sep 02 01:45:43 <snadge> my flatmate has a htc tytn ii .. with winmo 6.1 on it
Sep 02 01:45:54 <snadge> which is okay.. i'd rate it higher than an iphone imho
Sep 02 01:46:01 <snadge> except for eye candy
Sep 02 01:46:16 <plusminus_> romainguy_ thx
Sep 02 01:46:34 <snadge> im wondering if they're adding the eye candy to winmo 7
Sep 02 01:46:41 <romainguy_> plusminus_: stop posting the same question over and over on the newsgroup :)
Sep 02 01:46:52 <catzilla> do you guys know if all HTC Dream apps will have to be installed from the android "store"?
Sep 02 01:47:18 <snadge> no, it just makes it more convenient
Sep 02 01:47:36 <romainguy_> catzilla: it's just one way to install them
Sep 02 01:47:49 <catzilla> k
Sep 02 01:47:55 <catzilla> so not like the iPhone store?
Sep 02 01:47:56 <snadge> like repositories, you can be sure its a verified app.. and unmodified
Sep 02 01:48:12 <catzilla> more like Maemo?
Sep 02 01:48:19 <snadge> if you just download a random app from somewhere, you have less guarantee of its authenticity
Sep 02 01:48:25 <catzilla> sure
Sep 02 01:48:36 <catzilla> or palm for that matter
Sep 02 01:49:10 <moccuo> most of the apps would be opensource though, right?
Sep 02 01:49:41 <romainguy_> ah
Sep 02 01:49:44 <romainguy_> I just finished my new app
Sep 02 01:50:11 <plusminus_> romainguy_ I could not see it, thats why I added : "PS: This is my third try to post o_O."
Sep 02 01:50:27 <snadge> android itself is open source.. a lot of apps will be, but i dont think its mandatory .. im assuming you can chose your own software license
Sep 02 01:50:27 <moccuo> is there any bindings for building ruby/python apps for android?
Sep 02 01:50:50 <plusminus_> romainguy_ an even better Home-Screen ? ;)
Sep 02 01:52:06 <romainguy> no
Sep 02 01:52:14 <romainguy> something really simple that's probably be useful only to me
Sep 02 01:52:21 <romainguy> but it was a good excuse to draw in Adobe Illustrator
Sep 02 01:52:40 <romainguy_> let me up a screenshot
Sep 02 01:55:35 <romainguy_> plusminus_: http://progx.org/users/Gfx/shutterspeed.png and http://progx.org/users/Gfx/shutterspeed_icon.png
Sep 02 01:59:40 <plusminus_> to make photos with manual-camera-confiuration ?
Sep 02 01:59:45 <romainguy_> lol no
Sep 02 01:59:48 <romainguy_> well
Sep 02 01:59:49 <romainguy_> yes
Sep 02 01:59:50 <romainguy_> kinda
Sep 02 01:59:56 <plusminus_> or view the configuration photos were taken with ?=
Sep 02 02:00:19 <romainguy_> if you take photos in low-light situations, a digital camera cannot give you a good exposure time if you want to use low-ISO and low-aperture settings
Sep 02 02:00:32 <romainguy_> so the trick is to set your camera to high-ISO, large-aperture settings
Sep 02 02:00:46 <romainguy_> then input the exposure read by the camera in the app, and the app will give you the exposure needed for your settings
Sep 02 02:00:56 <romainguy_> in this case
Sep 02 02:01:10 <plusminus_> ah ok, i think i got it
Sep 02 02:01:18 <romainguy_> if the camera tells you that you need a 1 second exposure at f/2.8 and ISO 800, you will need 4 minutes and 16 seconds at ISO 100 and f/16
Sep 02 02:01:59 <romainguy_> but really, what I wanted was to draw the lens :))
Sep 02 02:02:03 <romainguy_> I just made an app around it :p
Sep 02 02:03:16 <swetland> ahaha
Sep 02 02:05:16 <romainguy_> swetland: I actually built a similar app for J2ME a while ago
Sep 02 02:05:20 <romainguy_> and it was useful to me
Sep 02 02:12:22 <plusminus_> I just ported an app to 0.9 and had a custom view. I did not change its onDraw but everything is about 1000000x times to big o_O
Sep 02 02:13:19 <romainguy_> ?
Sep 02 02:13:24 <romainguy_> what do you mean "too big"?
Sep 02 02:14:12 <plusminus_> My Sudoku Game: http://andsudoku.anddev.org/ , I can only see the upper left corner,
Sep 02 02:14:42 <catzilla> pretty
Sep 02 02:15:41 <plusminus_> I think I got it...
Sep 02 02:15:51 <romainguy_> plusminus_: then there was probably a bug you were relying on
Sep 02 02:16:18 <plusminus_> don't think so, just a small change. I was getting the width in the xml constructor with:
Sep 02 02:16:18 <plusminus_> final String widthString = attrs.getAttributeValue(NAMESPACE_DEFAULT, LAYOUT_WIDTH);
Sep 02 02:16:31 <plusminus_> before 0.9 it returned sth like: "200px"
Sep 02 02:16:38 <plusminus_> now it returns like "200.0px"
Sep 02 02:16:50 <plusminus_> which made my parsing go weird ;)
Sep 02 02:16:54 <romainguy_> er
Sep 02 02:16:58 <romainguy_> why are you parsing this yourself?
Sep 02 02:17:49 <plusminus_> becuase getWidth returned not the acutal value (at least not inside the constructor, where I need it)
Sep 02 02:18:18 <romainguy_> I mean, that's not how you should read the values from XML
Sep 02 02:18:26 <romainguy_> unless that's a custom XML of yours
Sep 02 02:19:10 <plusminus_> how to do it then?
Sep 02 02:19:43 <romainguy_> use TypedArray.getLayoutDimension()
Sep 02 02:20:02 <romainguy_> for instance
Sep 02 02:20:33 <romainguy_> TypedArray a = context.obtainStyledAttributes(attre, R.styleable.ViewGroup_Layout);
Sep 02 02:20:41 <romainguy_> a.getDimension(R.styleable.ViewGroup_Layout_layout_width, "layout_width")
Sep 02 02:22:52 <swetland> romain: you should write a light meter app!
Sep 02 02:26:27 <plusminus_> romainguy_ Big Thx, works perfect. Even without dangers of parsing ;)
Sep 02 02:28:30 <romainguy> plusminus_: that's how we read all the attributes in our Views from XML
Sep 02 02:30:54 <catzilla> someone should write a thermometer app too
Sep 02 02:43:38 <plusminus_> uuh, I just realized, that by tripple(?) clicking within the browser, one can get the magnifying glass ;D
Sep 02 02:44:39 <plusminus_> ...  just double-tapping...
Sep 02 02:52:47 <plusminus_> API-Changes help says that the replacement for DataStateIntentReceiver is MobileDataStateBroadcastReceiver. But it does not exists.
Sep 02 02:53:07 <plusminus_> there is only a MobileDataStateTracker. Is it what was meant ?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 02 02:59:56 2008