**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 02 02:59:56 2008 Sep 02 03:03:00 do we know who the guy behind the coffee machine is? Sep 02 03:03:37 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/f60eae7146dd51e5?hl=en Sep 02 03:03:40 lol Sep 02 03:04:05 the google dog will be a great mascot for android :) Sep 02 03:08:15 I hate this dog Sep 02 03:08:18 it looks like a rat Sep 02 03:08:19 e@!# Sep 02 03:12:13 haha Sep 02 03:12:30 the dog is everywhere Sep 02 03:16:28 s/dog/rat Sep 02 03:16:31 hehe Sep 02 03:57:11 Cursor c = getContentResolver().query(Telephony.Sms.Inbox.CONTENT_URI, null, null, null, null); Sep 02 03:59:17 no Sep 02 03:59:26 Cursor c = getContentResolver().query(Telephony.Sms.Outbox.CONTENT_URI, null, null, null, null); Sep 02 03:59:31 returns an empty cursor Sep 02 03:59:36 even having sent some messages Sep 02 04:00:02 plusminus_: check adb logcat and look for the exact query that was executed. Sep 02 04:00:08 should give you some insight into why there was a syntax error Sep 02 04:00:22 a null cursor doesn't mean an empty set, but rather an error executing it. Sep 02 04:00:31 executing the query* Sep 02 04:05:52 cursor is not null, but contaisn zero results Sep 02 04:06:01 Columns are correct, I assume: [_id, thread_id, address, person, date, protocol, read, status, type, reply_path_present, subject, body, service_center] Sep 02 04:06:08 oh sorry, i misread. Sep 02 04:06:36 outbox indicates to me that it is messages which are pending delivery, not post delivery. Sep 02 04:07:19 Argh, hti me Sep 02 04:07:32 I'm an idiot :D Sep 02 04:10:50 I always mix that up... Sep 02 04:11:40 plusminus_: so, what do you think of the images of the HTC Dream/G1 phone? Sep 02 04:26:56 I like it :) but i am no t-mobile customer Sep 02 04:27:10 so it will take me more time to get it Sep 02 04:35:54 you have to be a t-mobile customer? Sep 02 04:36:07 i was thinking of purchasing one while i was in the usa.. and bringing it back to australia Sep 02 04:36:23 dont tell me this isnt going to be possible? :P Sep 02 04:50:43 tmobile will keep it locked Sep 02 04:53:21 i thought the whole point of android was that it was supposed to be unlocked and fair for everybody? Sep 02 04:53:43 we dont have tmobile in australia (that im aware of) Sep 02 04:53:57 it should work with any 3g provider :( Sep 02 04:54:02 the rest of the world will be different Sep 02 04:54:13 it will boil down to the local carriers Sep 02 04:54:25 in india, mostly its unlocked Sep 02 04:54:27 as long as theres a hack for it to unlock it ;) Sep 02 04:54:34 yeah sure Sep 02 05:00:57 god damnit Sep 02 05:01:05 my new roommate is really lame Sep 02 05:01:15 what happened? Sep 02 05:01:20 damn you craig's list Sep 02 05:01:52 haha, you should've asked for an android programmer Sep 02 05:08:39 re Sep 02 05:56:59 hey romainguy Sep 02 05:57:25 i know you've been advocating against custom ui design.. any reasons for that? Sep 02 05:57:48 in terms of styles and themes Sep 02 05:58:44 I'm not advocating against it Sep 02 05:58:48 do it if it's worth it Sep 02 05:58:58 but don't do it if you are redesigning all the widgets Sep 02 05:59:07 just because you don't like the standard ones Sep 02 05:59:17 otherwise your app will look different from other ones Sep 02 05:59:24 and won't work on phones with different themes Sep 02 05:59:37 but in the end, it's up to you :) Sep 02 06:00:12 i'm putting this new app together Sep 02 06:00:32 am going to stick with the default ones Sep 02 06:00:41 since i'm not a designer by any means Sep 02 06:01:27 can the icons bundled with android be used in commercial apps? Sep 02 06:02:11 I think so Sep 02 06:02:17 gr88 Sep 02 06:02:20 they should be licensed under the Apache 2.0 license Sep 02 06:02:26 but double-check with the advocates Sep 02 06:02:34 ok Sep 02 06:03:06 i looked at your photostream.. do you always document like that ;) Sep 02 06:03:18 usually yes Sep 02 06:03:20 why? Sep 02 06:03:25 pretty impressive Sep 02 06:03:37 since javadoc is the last thing in my mind always Sep 02 06:03:51 it helps when you have time for it :) Sep 02 06:04:08 right, i can see the effort in it. thanks :) Sep 02 06:04:24 your UserTask can be part of android sdk, i guess Sep 02 06:04:43 we'll probably have it or something similar in the next version Sep 02 06:04:45 i usually spend the effort to document things which are generalized. Sep 02 06:05:00 yeah Sep 02 06:05:22 but not for specialized classes. i can see the obvious argument in favor of the opposite, but i just don't do it :) Sep 02 06:05:23 i document only when others ask for it.. lol Sep 02 06:05:58 i always document when i intend for someone to learn from what i've done, as well. Sep 02 06:06:12 jasta: i've checked out five Sep 02 06:06:18 but not yet peeped into it Sep 02 06:06:34 well, the current SVN is in non-working order as five-music is radically redesigned. Sep 02 06:07:31 the service package is finishing up now, with just the local server hack and thorough testing left to go Sep 02 06:07:48 then its into the activities which are now all broken because the service they depend on was scrapped and rebuilt Sep 02 06:07:56 did the instrumentation work? Sep 02 06:08:12 also, i plan to redo all the UI as i always considered it to be temporary leading up to the challenge anyway Sep 02 06:08:33 you had a nice ui Sep 02 06:08:47 no, as it turns out, services in the Android framework are very poorly tested :) Sep 02 06:09:05 the visual appeal of the UI will remain in most cases, however the real mechanics of it will be changed a lot. Sep 02 06:09:19 i'm not sure if the android developers are doing any kind of testing Sep 02 06:09:27 the artist/album screens for example will not really change visually, but the way it all comes together will Sep 02 06:09:48 diggin was impressive Sep 02 06:09:52 unit testing is somewhat common throughout Android, however it's very inconsistent. Sep 02 06:10:03 their test coverage is probably very low. Sep 02 06:10:22 i liked diggin's UI a lot, although it did raise a few critical questions Sep 02 06:10:55 like, it seems that the UI caters to users with very small music collections. scrolling through your music visually in that way would be very difficult if you had more than even 20 albums or so Sep 02 06:11:17 and lots of users have singles littered throughout, so there would be tons of "empty" albums, which diggin's UI seems to exaggerate. Sep 02 06:11:59 yeah Sep 02 06:12:00 also, i found out that their streaming media support is such a huge hack that it will probably be removed from the 1.0 build unless Google fixes their crap Sep 02 06:12:10 (i talked to him about it; he used the same hack Five did, which doesn't work at all) Sep 02 06:12:38 hmm Sep 02 06:12:53 there's a lot of rough edges left in android Sep 02 06:12:54 what he does is stores the stream to disk himself and points the mediaplayer at it. Sep 02 06:13:05 right Sep 02 06:13:11 which means that he has to "swap out" the mediaplayer reading the local content, which will cause stutters periodically for users. Sep 02 06:13:19 on the order of even just a few minutes of playback Sep 02 06:13:32 which he felt was acceptable as a demonstration, as did i for five, but will not fly for end users. Sep 02 06:13:42 yup Sep 02 06:13:43 as of 0.9r1, the MediaPlayer remains too broken to make it work correctly. Sep 02 06:14:47 but all-in-all i am curious about Diggin's UI, though i don't know that there are any elements i can really draw from for my project. Sep 02 06:15:00 i just don't know that i agree with the fundamental approach he has. it would be unruly for large collections. Sep 02 06:15:04 even with the ability to search the music Sep 02 06:15:06 I bet you could find an open source java mp3 decoder out there Sep 02 06:15:36 gambler: i thought the same thing, but then you'd need to do some major hacking to get access to the audio hardware. Sep 02 06:15:44 none of google's public classes offer you that. Sep 02 06:16:05 once source is released, i suspect you could figure it out pretty easily, but it's entirely possible that the Java layer doesn't even have that access. only the native layer. Sep 02 06:16:19 if that's the case, then you'd need to develop a native component yourself which is likely not easy to distribute with an APK Sep 02 06:16:44 so suddenly your app becomes very difficult for users to load, and all just to work around a couple of trivial limitations in a poorly thought out library Sep 02 06:17:02 so you cant write to the speaker...hmmm Sep 02 06:17:34 the MediaPlayer's issues really seemed like show stoppers to me in M5. i am surprised that Google did not agree. Sep 02 06:17:45 I guess the android security model (which I havent looked at) probably isnt yet mature enough to handle that. Sep 02 06:17:53 i understand the "we're busy" argument, but still there is some functionality that you just can't afford to screw up, and taht's one of them. Sep 02 06:20:38 jasta: there are tons of features that we can't afford to screw up, and this was not in the top priority list Sep 02 06:20:44 (unfortunately so, but that's the way it is) Sep 02 06:21:38 well it's just that...it's unusable. Sep 02 06:21:57 for what? Sep 02 06:22:02 for streaming/caching stuff? Sep 02 06:22:11 for anything other than playing static local content Sep 02 06:22:54 it can't even stream. regardless of my streaming and caching requirement. the local http server hack that google now officially recommends also won't work. Sep 02 06:23:12 (i posted a bug, if you're curious to know why) Sep 02 06:23:53 romainguy, I think the eclipse plugin site is down. Im trying to reinstall it and its not working Sep 02 06:23:55 morrildl alerted the team, but i am not in the loop as to how this is being prioritized. Sep 02 06:24:09 won't happen for 1.0 Sep 02 06:24:20 romainguy: how do you know? Sep 02 06:24:30 because I do Sep 02 06:24:39 uhh, ok. Sep 02 06:24:52 well, then that means no streaming UI is possible :) Sep 02 06:25:14 unless the bug has already been fixed ^^ Sep 02 06:25:20 it hasn't. Sep 02 06:25:45 (i talked to some folks who relayed some questions to the team) Sep 02 06:26:37 the problem is that you get no data useful to display to the user what the buffer progress is, or when audio output has stopped or anything. Sep 02 06:27:19 so if the user clicks something that requires buffering, you can't actually report to the user some reasonable information about when audio output will start. likewise, you can't notify them when audio output stops. Sep 02 06:27:27 hehe.. i dont want to see this, dont tell me i cant stream media for 1.0 ;) Sep 02 06:27:42 snadge: well you can if your users don't mind having no idea what your application is doing :) Sep 02 06:28:12 thats kind of how audacious et all.. already do it Sep 02 06:28:23 you can't control or observe the buffering heuristics. you only get one shot to know when playback begins (and you get no progress indicator leading up to it) Sep 02 06:28:29 you see it load the initial buffer.. it starts playing.. and thats it Sep 02 06:28:32 just shows a counter Sep 02 06:28:42 snadge: my point is you can't see it load the initial buffer. Sep 02 06:29:04 right and you can also see if it needs to rebuffer Sep 02 06:29:11 from the devs perspective, you merely start a stream and you get notified when playback begins. from then, you get no other status indications other than a fatal error that halts entirely. Sep 02 06:29:28 snadge: but you can't see that either. in fact, you never know when audio stops or resumes from after the initial startup. Sep 02 06:30:19 well i agree, that does kind of suck, not sure i would describe it as a show stopper though Sep 02 06:30:31 an iphone cant even send an mms message Sep 02 06:30:50 i couldn't believe that when i first heard it Sep 02 06:30:51 yeah, i guess maybe smartphones have low standards ;) Sep 02 06:31:32 well even if things like this have to be fixed with a 1.1 update Sep 02 06:31:50 its still a better scenario than from other vendors.. the update will no doubt be a free one Sep 02 06:31:57 well, forgive my bias, but the app i spent the last 10 months working on is a streaming media player :) Sep 02 06:32:59 well get on these guys asses about fixing it ;) Sep 02 06:33:09 such a stupid reason it won't work too. it really ought not be a difficult thing to implement the MediaPlayer as documented. Sep 02 06:33:19 snadge, that sounds a little gay...could you rephrase it Sep 02 06:33:53 well you've reported the problem, what more can you do.. apart from try and fix it yourself Sep 02 06:39:53 grr this new RatingBar is /huge/ and i cant figure out how to make it smaller :/ its not listening to android:progressBarStyle Sep 02 06:40:49 whatever you do, please make sure there is either a pause button or a stop button. Not both. Sep 02 06:40:55 MCE ships with both and I cant understand why, since no media centres take VCR tapes. Sep 02 06:41:09 umdk1d3: er... look at the Api Demos :)) Sep 02 06:41:39 umdk1d3: the default size is the right size for a 160dpi touch screen btw Sep 02 06:42:02 what? pause and stop have different meanings Sep 02 06:42:05 ahah thats why /me grepped and found i should be setting regular "style" attribute Sep 02 06:42:20 stop means pause, and seek to the beginning of the currently playing track Sep 02 06:43:08 oh wow :( small really is small lol Sep 02 06:43:38 i hate shared pause/stop buttons ;) Sep 02 06:46:42 I dont know if I believe that they have different meanings. The distinction arose from a technical issue surrounding VCR mechanics Sep 02 06:47:42 cassette also has this in a tape deck Sep 02 06:47:59 but then interfaces like media player and winamp replicate this also Sep 02 06:48:27 its something we all grew up with.. pause signals your intention to want to resume from where you paused it Sep 02 06:48:39 stop means exactly that Sep 02 06:48:55 my other pet peeve with my current nokia based mp3 player is that it has no fast fwd or rewind. which makes it hard to listen to e-books Sep 02 06:49:07 well thats just stupid Sep 02 06:49:13 but then again, i hate nokias Sep 02 06:49:32 i've always owned an ericsson ;) Sep 02 06:50:04 whenever i've used someone elses nokia.. it tends to make me violent Sep 02 06:50:48 amazing that people like so many different phone OS....we are so used to a mono culture in the desktop world Sep 02 06:51:25 I for one love nokia, and would happily code for the platform if it was open source... Sep 02 06:52:20 Ive written some J2ME before though and its painful, you cant do anything. Sep 02 06:53:07 Thats why Im interested in freerunner on debian-arm etc...you can do anything. To me android is the successor to the J2ME philosophy Sep 02 06:56:37 nokia's dev platform is not that good Sep 02 07:04:01 maybe they will update it with maemo Sep 02 07:04:24 gambler: did you decide on ioc? Sep 02 07:05:12 I really wanted to get AspectJ working but it introduces a runtime dependency and a number of other problems Sep 02 07:05:34 try spring Sep 02 07:06:27 yeah, ill look again at some of those things you mentioned yesterday. I really like the AspectJ approach because it suits a formalism I am trying to introduce into my code Sep 02 07:07:11 what you building? Sep 02 07:10:22 Ive designed a language for specifying and testing network protocols that generates java code. Im hoping it will save me time later Sep 02 07:11:59 ok Sep 02 07:15:57 there is a funny quote by terence parr thats something like: "Why write in one month what you could spend the rest of your life automating?" :p Sep 02 07:17:22 ah, it's "why program by hand in five days what you can spend the five years of your life automating?" Sep 02 07:17:43 he is a better programmer then me Sep 02 07:19:05 you can get too carried away with automating :) Sep 02 07:33:11 yah totally. when i see the state of language tools it makes me want to cry Sep 02 07:34:37 http://androidguys.com/2008/09/01/from-dream-to-prototype/ <- I like that article. It is the same thing I asking me while looking at the G1 Sep 02 07:34:44 I'm asking.. Sep 02 07:38:55 there's no doubt goog is rushing to meet Q4 date Sep 02 07:39:08 anno^da_: yeah, i had the same thoughts Sep 02 07:39:42 i think getting a device out there Q4 is the right strategy Sep 02 07:40:31 true open source style.. rush to release something thats half baked Sep 02 07:40:45 its not half baked Sep 02 07:40:46 why would anyone expect anything different? ;) Sep 02 07:41:00 yeah but its not a kitchen sink 1.0 Sep 02 07:41:02 iphone is half baked Sep 02 07:41:23 muthu: The thing is you have to import the device in Q4. From what the HTC guys said at the IFA the G1 will only be released in the US in Q4. Sep 02 07:41:28 no bluetooth api.. no chat api.. no big deal.. but no streaming media ? yikes ;) Sep 02 07:41:36 anno^da_: yeah, sad Sep 02 07:42:01 i will be in the usa in november so im not worried.. i will buy one and take it back to australia, to find out i cant use it Sep 02 07:42:35 :) Sep 02 07:43:17 One thing is pretty clear to me. With the G1 you wont get the "big bang" entering the market. Sep 02 07:43:43 G1 will sell well Sep 02 07:43:59 mayyyybe Sep 02 07:44:03 l ll lll Sep 02 07:44:06 We'll see. really really hope so. :) Sep 02 07:44:41 theres more chance of that, than apple releasing an iphone that doesnt suck... and microsoft releasing a version of winmo that doesnt suck ;) Sep 02 07:45:00 altho im relatively curious as to what v7 will bring Sep 02 07:45:59 G7 will be fantastic Sep 02 07:46:58 Well at the moment I think that we will see a more polished G1 in October. Sep 02 07:47:09 muthu: i think hes talking about winmo v7 ;) Sep 02 07:47:19 It will have the size that we know but much more polished. Sep 02 07:47:43 Since the only official thing we know are the FCC sketches. Sep 02 07:48:05 And romainguy could tell us if we are wrong or right. :-) Sep 02 07:48:09 umdk1d3: ha, was getting ahead ;) Sep 02 07:48:29 anno^da_: yes, it will be polished and nice Sep 02 07:49:52 will winmo7 have eye candy? Sep 02 07:50:03 or is that something microsoft.. has never been, and never will be able to get right ;) Sep 02 07:50:18 i think the issue is that they cant reinvent their platform overnight Sep 02 07:50:20 There are two hearts beating in my chest at the moment. On the one hand I dont believe that we get a prototype looking phone. On the other hand I know that a lot of leaked pictures in the past (from different products) emerged to be true in the end. Sep 02 07:50:57 msft adding an app store is another last-ditch effort to keep people interested Sep 02 07:51:08 i just dont see why its difficult for microsoft to have sliding, bouncing buttons etc Sep 02 07:51:12 they arent doing a major overhaul of their platform (like with .net for the desktop) Sep 02 07:51:14 like the iphone does.. thats the only reason people like the iphone Sep 02 07:51:19 because its "pretty" Sep 02 07:51:53 whereas windows mobile is like windows 3.1 trapped inside a tiny screen Sep 02 07:52:47 asides from that (and my hatred of microsoft) .. i'd rate winmo above iphone Sep 02 08:01:22 snadge: i actually don't find the iphone that "pretty". i just think the app store has some pretty decent apps. Sep 02 08:01:52 no other phone right now has the functionality it has. Sep 02 08:05:04 it has a few gimmicks.. but the way i see it, it lacks functionality Sep 02 08:05:30 iphone pretty but limiting.. winmo ugly but less limiting Sep 02 08:05:34 and no gimmicks Sep 02 08:08:48 have you seen that: http://books.google.com/books?id=8UsqHohwwVYC&printsec=frontcover#PPA15,M1 Sep 02 08:13:51 wow... Sep 02 08:13:54 I wish I had the artistic skills to write a comic just to make a point Sep 02 08:17:05 this is alot longer than I thought Sep 02 08:30:35 It's interesting to see how much architectural cross-over there is between Android and Chrome. Sep 02 08:30:52 tomgibara: yea they even mentioned android in the cartoon Sep 02 08:31:15 and they have gears in both platforms now Sep 02 08:35:33 I wonder if V8 will be appropriate for Android Sep 02 08:36:07 Or even if there could be an even richer crossover between Android and Chrome Sep 02 08:44:48 hi, how can i send sms between 2 emulators ? Sep 02 08:51:19 zenob: you might try the emulator port numbers Sep 02 08:51:24 i know that works for phone calls Sep 02 08:51:31 the port number should be in the title bar of the emulator Sep 02 09:01:04 http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/01/multitouch-oy-demos-cell-multitouch-display/ Sep 02 09:01:27 the fist multi touch display being really smooth Sep 02 09:01:39 while using Sep 02 09:02:12 why android doesn't support MT, no one knows Sep 02 09:02:49 well I think the loveley patent issues Sep 02 09:03:07 hmm Sep 02 09:05:55 with MT you can lift and drop :) Sep 02 09:13:48 the android team has done a great job Sep 02 09:13:58 with the APIDemos Sep 02 09:14:06 anything you want, its there Sep 02 09:38:57 google starts its own browser? Sep 02 09:39:12 oh my god, next browser someone has to support for his webapp Sep 02 10:27:00 hi, i'm trying to send sms from emulator but SmsManager.getDefault().sendTextMessage(address.getText().toString(), null, message.getText().toString(), null, null) throws some parcel exception :/ Sep 02 10:27:23 anobody know why ? Sep 02 10:31:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GDl2r0RxpE Sep 02 10:31:45 this looks awesome Sep 02 10:31:46 :) Sep 02 10:31:51 *blingbling* Sep 02 10:35:54 something like this I would have expected :) Sep 02 10:39:36 guerilla marketing i like it Sep 02 11:27:02 is chrome or opera in Android? Sep 02 11:43:00 DJTachyon, neither Sep 02 11:43:11 just uses webit Sep 02 11:43:13 webkit Sep 02 12:06:32 chrome is awesome :P Sep 02 12:07:13 i wonder if it will be able to run flash :/ Sep 02 12:08:00 sure it will, it can run plugins Sep 02 12:08:23 so i can give firefox 3.0.1 the boot on my linux boxes? :P Sep 02 12:08:28 its been crashing a bit lately Sep 02 12:09:10 if you dont custimize it much then what does it matter what you use Sep 02 12:09:17 i think its flash related.. but it takes out the entire browser, which is really annoying.. sometimes i have one of those moments where you click the opposite to what you meant to click, and end up with a blank browser window and no tabs.. doh ;) Sep 02 12:10:13 i like this process isolation idea Sep 02 12:11:35 Well I dont think that chrome can compete with FF 3 including all my add ons Sep 02 12:11:52 thats not the point of it tho Sep 02 12:12:06 to raise the bar, and get its ideas across Sep 02 12:12:08 i dont use that many add ons.. and it is open source, so presumably these people could make chrome plugins Sep 02 12:12:29 if its faster than firefox 3.. and doesnt crash.. im converted already ;) Sep 02 12:12:35 well they could :) But how long did it take since all the plugins for FF existed. Sep 02 12:13:00 Well FF hasnt crashed for 20 days now so I can't argue about that. :) Sep 02 12:13:05 well they're both open source .. it becomes a question of, are these plugins really worth it Sep 02 12:13:30 Well some are. For example Tab Mix Plus. I cant live without it. Sep 02 12:13:30 ff has an addon interface, chrome does not, just plugins Sep 02 12:13:31 it has generally been excellent for me.. but firefox 3.0.1 and flash has a known issue (i think) Sep 02 12:13:37 or no info about that anyway Sep 02 12:13:53 It gives me all the tab possibilities other "new" browser claim to have. Sep 02 12:14:43 i look forward to checking it out anyway Sep 02 12:14:49 So we will see what happens in the future. Sep 02 12:14:56 absolutely Sep 02 12:15:50 what toolkit does chrome use? will there be a linux release tomorrow? Sep 02 12:16:18 As long as chrome doesnt have a valuable feed reader integrated I wont change the browser. :) I got used to it having the feed reader inside the browser. Sep 02 12:16:27 no linux release. Sep 02 12:16:53 It is windows only at the moment. Sep 02 12:33:18 doh fail @ no linux chrome Sep 02 13:03:17 what is webkit and how does it relate to chrome? Sep 02 13:03:31 seeing as webkit's website is b0rked Sep 02 13:04:03 webkit is a rendering engine, like gecko Sep 02 13:04:07 oh Sep 02 13:04:17 so chrome and the android browser both use it? Sep 02 13:04:23 yep Sep 02 13:04:30 oh wikkid Sep 02 13:04:31 webkit was originally written for safari Sep 02 13:04:35 by apple, then opensourced Sep 02 13:04:37 o_O .. really? Sep 02 13:04:56 doesn't iphone use safari .. or did safari fork from webkit? Sep 02 13:05:14 -or Sep 02 13:05:15 its not necessarily a fork Sep 02 13:05:39 webkit is the rendering engine under the hood--iphone, android, safari, chrome all use it, almost like a library Sep 02 13:06:03 firefox uses gecko under its hood Sep 02 13:06:10 Actually Apple started with kHTML (the KDE browser engine) for Safari Sep 02 13:06:22 oh cool i didnt know that Sep 02 13:06:33 They released WebKit as open source, and Nokia got it running on the S60 phone. Sep 02 13:06:41 i remember khtml being a pretty decent engine for its time Sep 02 13:06:49 And now Google is using it for android and Chrome Sep 02 13:07:26 well good .. at least there is some consensus ... Sep 02 13:08:03 I was surprised that Apple was so nonchalant about Android, but if they are all using the same code, then I'm not surprised. Sep 02 13:08:14 android and Chrome are similar in the sense that they both use processes to keep one bad app (android) or web page or plugin (Chrome) from crashing the whole thing. Sep 02 13:08:47 cool :) Sep 02 13:11:38 lol incognito mode ... Sep 02 13:12:11 DJTachyon, "porn mode" Sep 02 13:12:13 ;) Sep 02 13:12:25 anyone tried IE 8? Sep 02 13:12:31 baaa Sep 02 13:12:41 does it run on linux? :P Sep 02 13:12:44 so no option Sep 02 13:12:45 indeed ... Sep 02 13:12:45 for me Sep 02 13:13:18 me too.. the last one i ran is IE 5 Sep 02 13:21:33 all IE's suck. Sep 02 13:21:33 lol Sep 02 13:56:59 can a view be built in a separate thread and then merged back to main thread when done? Sep 02 15:00:59 woo, i am super tired Sep 02 15:42:43 is chrome out yet? Sep 02 15:43:14 that's it.. msft is done! Sep 02 15:47:43 are you predicting the demise of Microsoft based on competition in a segment where they are giving away their product for free? Sep 02 15:48:05 yes Sep 02 15:48:26 my follow-up question is then, are you an idiot? Sep 02 15:48:43 lol Sep 02 15:49:18 only idiots ask other such a thing ;) Sep 02 15:55:53 hope chrome comes out with a linux version Sep 02 15:57:37 you will be quite disappointed methinks, google chrome wont change the world and its not revolutionary Sep 02 15:57:55 I've never heard of it Sep 02 15:58:12 we need to wait and see Sep 02 16:00:26 judging by android standards.. chrome would be fantastic! Sep 02 16:00:36 because android standards are low? Sep 02 16:00:56 jasta: why is the android standard low? Sep 02 16:01:12 its the best mobile development platform available as of today Sep 02 16:01:21 well, the way you phrased that made no sense Sep 02 16:01:53 if you say judging by , will be great! you are implying that has a low bar set, so will easily beat it. otherwise, you wouldn't make the comparison. Sep 02 16:02:17 ha, again you picking on the grammar Sep 02 16:02:21 that's not i meant Sep 02 16:02:27 Jeez Jasta, can you chill out? Sep 02 16:02:28 this isn't grammar, actually, it's just how you think Sep 02 16:03:18 Cedric2: chill out? i'm not really wound up. Sep 02 16:03:25 I took it as muthu intended it, android is fantastic, so you can assume that chrome will be Sep 02 16:03:33 yup Sep 02 16:03:46 jasta is weird and crazy Sep 02 16:04:01 I know, but there is no need to be so confrontational with everyone Sep 02 16:04:03 attack of the fanbois Sep 02 16:04:10 haha Sep 02 16:04:29 sztanphet: i'm anything but a fanboy. Sep 02 16:04:46 yes, i didnt mean you Sep 02 16:05:00 jasta: he meant the attack is on you Sep 02 16:05:15 from us fanbois :)) Sep 02 16:05:35 ahh yes, well in that case you certainly are. Sep 02 16:07:55 hey muthu, do they still have the caste system in India? i mean, is it still a strong social force? Sep 02 16:08:20 the caste system is still there.. yes Sep 02 16:08:36 and which were you born into? Sep 02 16:08:37 however things are changing slowly Sep 02 16:09:47 there's religion.. then caste.. then subcaste.. then groups within them.. then subgroups Sep 02 16:09:53 and so on and on and on.. Sep 02 16:10:18 well, i'm curious where you fit into it. Sep 02 16:10:31 just like the many languages and dialects Sep 02 16:10:52 jasta: what do you know about the caste system? Sep 02 16:10:56 Is there any plan to have Android move to kernel 2.6.26? Sep 02 16:11:06