**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 03 02:59:57 2008
Sep 03 03:01:58 <squeakypants> it works :D thanks again
Sep 03 03:14:21 <jasta> romainguy_: this is really weird.  somehow my instrumented tests are nuking the tested process, then restarting it in some busted state.
Sep 03 03:14:38 <jasta> no idea why
Sep 03 03:16:12 <romainguy> I know that the instrumented tests we use (instrumented activities) restart the activity for each test
Sep 03 03:16:21 <romainguy> (test == one test method)
Sep 03 03:16:38 <jasta> yeah but i think this is different.  i created a simple test case which works with callbacks properly
Sep 03 03:16:44 <jasta> and the log output looks something like:
Sep 03 03:16:51 <jasta> D/ActivityManager(   49): Uninstalling process org.devtcg.demo.instrumentationbug
Sep 03 03:16:54 <jasta> I/ActivityManager(   49): Start proc org.devtcg.demo.instrumentationbug for added application org.devtcg.demo.instrumentationbug: pid=618 uid=10014 gids={}
Sep 03 03:17:13 <jasta> but then with my non-demo code, i get a lot more log activity including a line that says the app crashed
Sep 03 03:17:21 <jasta> and another that looks to be evidence of the real problem:
Sep 03 03:17:26 <jasta> D/ActivityManager(   49): Received spurious death notification for thread android.os.BinderProxy@4340a508
Sep 03 03:17:36 <jasta> this is all before the tests even start
Sep 03 03:18:00 <jasta> then when they do, they seem to run just fine service side except that callbacks aren't firing.
Sep 03 03:19:32 <jasta> it really seems to be a problem that happens way before my code even runs.  my first thought was maybe some package/scoping confusion somewhere but i don't think that's the case.
Sep 03 03:20:30 <jasta> i posted all these details to the groups so hopefully somebody that knows about all this magic will perk up when they see a SIGKILL being fired :)
Sep 03 03:20:40 <muthu> yo yo
Sep 03 03:22:22 <muthu> is chrome out?
Sep 03 03:22:28 <romainguy> yes
Sep 03 03:22:34 <muthu> oooh
Sep 03 03:22:54 * muthu goes to download chrome
Sep 03 03:23:15 <muthu> romainguy: what's your take on it?
Sep 03 03:23:17 <muthu> likey?
Sep 03 03:23:22 <romainguy> Chrome?
Sep 03 03:23:24 <romainguy> yes I like it
Sep 03 03:23:27 <romainguy> very simple UI
Sep 03 03:23:32 <romainguy> no unnecessary features
Sep 03 03:23:33 <muthu> wonderful
Sep 03 03:23:35 <romainguy> and it's very very fast
Sep 03 03:23:39 <muthu> wow!
Sep 03 03:23:45 <muthu> that's exactly what i want
Sep 03 03:23:53 <duey> its what i have been wanting for ages
Sep 03 03:23:55 <duey> <3
Sep 03 03:23:57 <jasta> it tickles me how we're seeing this revival of software developers actually writing efficient code again :)
Sep 03 03:24:06 <muthu> yup
Sep 03 03:24:14 <muthu> now we are going back to the basics again ;)
Sep 03 03:24:38 <jasta> i have never been a fan of designing software which tasks itself with lots of unnecessary side effects.
Sep 03 03:24:45 <muthu> jasta: gimme your feedbak on chrome man!
Sep 03 03:24:47 <duey> as long as chrome stays lightweight it will be good
Sep 03 03:24:53 <jasta> muthu: i haven't run it yet, for it is Windows only apparently.
Sep 03 03:24:54 <duey> firefox used to be lightweight
Sep 03 03:24:54 <romainguy> duey: it probably will
Sep 03 03:25:04 <duey> yeah im hoping it will
Sep 03 03:25:07 <muthu> WHATWHAT?
Sep 03 03:25:11 <muthu> windows only?
Sep 03 03:25:15 <muthu> SHTI!
Sep 03 03:25:15 <romainguy> muthu: a Linux version is in the works
Sep 03 03:25:20 <romainguy> a Mac OS X version too
Sep 03 03:25:29 <romainguy> I think the source code with compile steps for linux is already available
Sep 03 03:25:30 <muthu> i hate goog for this
Sep 03 03:25:31 <duey> who would use the mac version ?
Sep 03 03:25:35 <romainguy> duey: I would
Sep 03 03:25:39 <muthu> they release windows first, always
Sep 03 03:25:42 <duey> dont like safari?
Sep 03 03:25:54 <romainguy> muthu: maybe because most of our users run Windows?
Sep 03 03:26:01 <romainguy> duey: I really like Safari, but Chrome is faster
Sep 03 03:26:07 <muthu> i know, that's why wasn't too excited about downloading
Sep 03 03:26:18 <muthu> figured out would be windows first
Sep 03 03:26:25 <duey> chrome will run my parasitic javascript more efficiently :)
Sep 03 03:27:13 <muthu> google is definitely moving ahead
Sep 03 03:27:20 <muthu> android, now chrome
Sep 03 03:27:55 <snadge> i cant find the chrome source code or linux build scripts
Sep 03 03:27:58 <duey> I like how chrome is fixing how javascript is run
Sep 03 03:28:03 <duey> different threads etc
Sep 03 03:28:19 <snadge> all i can find is that "chrome for linux is not available yet"
Sep 03 03:28:39 <muthu> bummer
Sep 03 03:28:42 <snadge> lame .. shouldn't it have been a source dump first? tease people by making them compile it themselves
Sep 03 03:28:53 <snadge> :P
Sep 03 03:29:10 <muthu> it shoulda been linux first
Sep 03 03:29:15 <duey> why
Sep 03 03:29:17 <romainguy> snadge: http://code.google.com/chromium/
Sep 03 03:29:31 <muthu> make all the windows users wait in anticipation
Sep 03 03:29:34 <jasta> muthu: you picked the wrong operating system, man :)
Sep 03 03:29:34 <romainguy> source code over there: http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved
Sep 03 03:29:42 <muthu> jasta: hehe
Sep 03 03:29:49 <muthu> fedora 9 rules
Sep 03 03:30:06 <muthu> in fact i'm getting lightweight myself
Sep 03 03:30:40 <muthu> fedora 9 + gnome + only required stuff
Sep 03 03:31:00 <muthu> lightweight os = fast
Sep 03 03:31:33 <muthu> will get rid of flock, if chrome is available
Sep 03 03:31:38 <snadge> oh thats interesting.. you CAN download the source code and build it for linux :)
Sep 03 03:31:46 <romainguy> told you
Sep 03 03:31:52 <snadge> except it doesnt have a gui.. it just builds an executable that says "all tests pass"
Sep 03 03:31:56 <snadge> fantastic ;)
Sep 03 03:32:00 <duey> Note: There is no working Chromium-based browser on Linux. Although many Chromium submodules build under Linux and a few unit tests pass, all that runs is a command-line "all tests pass" executable.
Sep 03 03:32:09 <romainguy> then build the UI :))
Sep 03 03:32:09 <duey> http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/build-instructions-linux
Sep 03 03:32:32 <snadge> i guess that answers what tool kit chromium uses then
Sep 03 03:32:33 <snadge> none
Sep 03 03:34:07 <snadge> oh well.. i guess firefox 3 will remain my default browser for quite some time ;)
Sep 03 03:35:38 <muthu> just got firefox 3
Sep 03 03:39:10 <snadge> already got it.. was hoping i could replace it though since its unstbale
Sep 03 03:39:15 <snadge> unstable even
Sep 03 03:39:46 <snadge> i love how you can kill flash in chrome.. thats its single biggest feature.. if firefox added that ability, i would continue to use it :P
Sep 03 03:41:00 <snadge> but as it stands.. there is no gui for linux, i can only take google's word that devs are working on it.. or, since i love open source so much, i could write my own gui .. cos its that easy of course
Sep 03 03:43:08 <snadge> if work on it hasnt even started yet.. its a bit rich to say that it will be "available soon"
Sep 03 03:43:50 <snadge> thats called getting peoples hopes up ;)
Sep 03 03:45:21 <romainguy> yay
Sep 03 03:45:26 <romainguy> just got 2 photos published in a book
Sep 03 03:45:26 <romainguy> http://www.experiencethetreasures.co.uk/display.asp?k=9781847320681&TAG=&CID=
Sep 03 03:50:50 <duey> nice
Sep 03 03:50:51 <snadge> wowsers.. limited to 32 bit, and x86 .. starts to suck more and more, the more you read into the fine print ;)
Sep 03 03:51:50 <muthu> that's it, enough of flock.. uninstall
Sep 03 03:52:18 <muthu> romainguy: you can make your living as a photographer
Sep 03 03:52:29 <romainguy> I doubt I could
Sep 03 03:53:06 <muthu> your photos looks professional
Sep 03 03:53:10 <romainguy> thanks
Sep 03 03:53:19 <romainguy> but it's apparently hard to make a living as a photographer
Sep 03 03:53:29 <snadge> i can only see a book about china
Sep 03 03:53:30 <muthu> yeah, it depends
Sep 03 03:53:31 <romainguy> that is, when you want to take the kind of pictures I take
Sep 03 03:53:45 <muthu> right
Sep 03 03:53:49 <duey> you could be a paparazzi
Sep 03 03:53:55 <muthu> hehe
Sep 03 03:53:56 <snadge> oh thats the book, not the photos
Sep 03 03:53:59 <romainguy> that would not be a very interesting job :)
Sep 03 03:54:04 <duey> lol
Sep 03 03:54:17 <romainguy> snadge: the photos are at http://flickr.com/people/romainguy
Sep 03 03:54:23 <romainguy> er
Sep 03 03:54:29 <romainguy> http://flickr.com/photos/romainguy
Sep 03 03:54:37 <snadge> romainguy: you could be a user interface developer for experimental web browsers released by google
Sep 03 03:54:41 <snadge> :P
Sep 03 03:54:44 <romainguy> lol
Sep 03 03:54:51 <romainguy> and write C++ code? no way :p
Sep 03 03:55:04 <muthu> haha.. people
Sep 03 03:55:04 <snadge> yeah... that is pretty gross
Sep 03 03:55:05 <duey> why dont you use picasa :P
Sep 03 03:55:13 <romainguy> duey: because I prefer Flickr
Sep 03 03:55:20 <romainguy> and because I was already using Flickr :)
Sep 03 03:55:25 <duey> lol
Sep 03 03:56:08 <squeakypants> romainguy: why don't you like c++?
Sep 03 03:56:15 <romainguy> I just like the language
Sep 03 03:56:21 <romainguy> nor the tools
Sep 03 03:56:24 <snadge> c++ is a bit old and crufty ;)
Sep 03 03:56:31 <snadge> but it does the job
Sep 03 03:56:31 <romainguy> I like C though
Sep 03 03:56:35 <romainguy> yeah it does
Sep 03 03:56:41 <snadge> i prefer straight C also
Sep 03 03:56:45 <squeakypants> stdlib is meh, but that's my only complaint
Sep 03 03:56:58 <squeakypants> java is bawww though :P
Sep 03 03:57:18 <romainguy> well I like Java for instance :)
Sep 03 03:57:23 <squeakypants> lol
Sep 03 03:57:29 <squeakypants> try python, you'll fall in love :P
Sep 03 03:57:33 <squeakypants> it's everything java wanted to be
Sep 03 03:57:34 <romainguy> I like Python too
Sep 03 03:57:37 <romainguy> no it's not
Sep 03 03:57:47 <romainguy> and Python has many many quirks of its own :))
Sep 03 03:57:51 <squeakypants> ture
Sep 03 03:57:54 <squeakypants> *true
Sep 03 03:58:01 <squeakypants> but they make sense :P
Sep 03 03:58:05 <plusminus_> romainguy damn nice photos ! http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1178/1112903867_1c8edc0a94_o.jpg
Sep 03 03:58:12 <romainguy> thanks plusminus_
Sep 03 03:59:05 <plusminus_> If i had a 2500px × 976px screen, that would be my wallpaper ;)
Sep 03 03:59:21 <romainguy> lol
Sep 03 04:00:07 <duey> photoshopped
Sep 03 04:01:54 <duey> http://flickr.com/photos/romainguy/2652312294/in/set-72057594062844128/
Sep 03 04:02:02 <duey> do you make those sort of effects in lightroom?
Sep 03 04:02:30 <romainguy> this is a circular polarizer + a neutral gradient + a tobacco gradient filters
Sep 03 04:02:39 <romainguy> and some desaturation in lightroom
Sep 03 04:03:00 <duey>  <romainguy> this is a circular polarizer + a neutral gradient + a tobacco gradient filters
Sep 03 04:03:06 <duey> are those done in lightroom or the camera?
Sep 03 04:03:25 <romainguy> it optical filters you put on the lens
Sep 03 04:03:32 <duey> cool
Sep 03 04:18:29 <plusminus_> can the system be asked to pick a contact (via an intent)?
Sep 03 04:18:41 <plusminus_> so I would not need to implement a Contacts-Browser
Sep 03 04:19:24 <plusminus_> is that what the PICK Action is there for ?
Sep 03 04:19:35 <romainguy> yes you can do that
Sep 03 04:20:23 <plusminus_> like. "Intent { action=android.intent.action.PICK data=content://contacts/people }"  ?
Sep 03 07:15:13 <duey> chrome haha
Sep 03 07:15:22 <duey> tried it on my parasitic javascript
Sep 03 07:15:30 <duey> completes 1000 work units in a minute
Sep 03 07:15:39 <duey> other browsers are like 20-40
Sep 03 07:15:43 <muthu> wow!
Sep 03 07:16:03 <muthu> hope chrome is out on linux soon
Sep 03 07:17:05 <snadge> dont hold your breath
Sep 03 07:17:20 <muthu> snadge: why, me thinks it would come soon
Sep 03 07:17:32 <snadge> not even knowing how the gui is going to work on linux
Sep 03 07:17:45 <snadge> is miles away from an actual working linux chrome with a gui
Sep 03 07:18:05 <muthu> all i need is browsing
Sep 03 07:18:09 <muthu> lightweight
Sep 03 07:18:16 <snadge> i think its irresponsible for them to say the linux and mac versions are "coming soon"
Sep 03 07:18:27 <muthu> why is it irresponsible?
Sep 03 07:18:33 <snadge> because its not true
Sep 03 07:18:33 <muthu> they might be releasing it soon
Sep 03 07:18:50 <muthu> we don't know that
Sep 03 07:18:58 <snadge> you've seen the chromium dev site.. they dont even have one line of gui code for mac or linux
Sep 03 07:19:08 * anno^da_ waits for TabMixPlus/NoScript and Adblock for Chrome. :)
Sep 03 07:19:37 <muthu> don't understand goog logic of releasing everything for windows first
Sep 03 07:20:00 <snadge> because you have to focus on one platform first
Sep 03 07:20:12 <snadge> keep the others in mind sure.. but its logical as to why windows was chosen first
Sep 03 07:20:28 <anno^da_> Well it is the biggest market.
Sep 03 07:20:57 <snadge> yeah.. but its a beta product that nobody but geeky techheads are going to give a shit about
Sep 03 07:21:04 <snadge> and they all run linux and mac
Sep 03 07:21:09 <muthu> yeah
Sep 03 07:21:09 <snadge> irony ;)
Sep 03 07:21:37 <muthu> i would first release in linux
Sep 03 07:21:54 <anno^da_> Well geeky techheads dont care about chrome.
Sep 03 07:22:00 <snadge> but by choosing linux first.. you first must have a qt vs gtk flamewar that lasts 20 years
Sep 03 07:22:11 <anno^da_> Why should I care about a browser that doesnt have simple tab settings
Sep 03 07:22:19 <anno^da_> Thats esential for me. :)
Sep 03 07:22:27 <gambler> the reason google releases everything for windows is because that is the massively dominant platform for regular people
Sep 03 07:22:35 <anno^da_> thats it
Sep 03 07:22:48 <muthu> regular people don't want chrome now
Sep 03 07:22:53 <muthu> they are happy with IE
Sep 03 07:23:21 <muthu> any stats on the number of downloads?
Sep 03 07:23:28 <anno^da_> Well but they wont take opera or ff either
Sep 03 07:23:50 <muthu> yes
Sep 03 07:23:51 <anno^da_> And I promise you that enough "normal" people will download chrome.
Sep 03 07:23:52 <gambler> they will when it satisfies some tiny little feature they want like automatically reminding them to get a haircut
Sep 03 07:23:57 <gambler> from their google calendar ofc
Sep 03 07:24:05 <anno^da_> haha yeah
Sep 03 07:24:17 <romainguy> muthu: don't understand goog logic of releasing everything for windows first << because Windows is 90% of the market
Sep 03 07:24:35 * anno^da_ hates sharing private information with companies.
Sep 03 07:24:38 <muthu> romainguy: understand, but are you planning to keep it that way?
Sep 03 07:25:02 <romainguy> muthu: to keep Windows dominant on the market?
Sep 03 07:25:07 <muthu> yeah
Sep 03 07:25:24 <muthu> may b windows works for goog now
Sep 03 07:25:25 <romainguy> I will speak personally here but why would Google care?
Sep 03 07:25:32 <muthu> agree
Sep 03 07:25:33 <romainguy> our platform is the web
Sep 03 07:25:44 <muthu> i know you are going to say that ;)
Sep 03 07:26:04 <romainguy> then why do you ask the question?
Sep 03 07:26:10 <muthu> haha
Sep 03 07:26:26 <muthu> good to get confirmation from you googs
Sep 03 07:26:40 <romainguy> it's not a confirmation
Sep 03 07:26:42 <romainguy> it's my take on it
Sep 03 07:26:52 <muthu> right
Sep 03 07:27:00 <muthu> that's good enough for me
Sep 03 07:27:19 <anno^da_> Well but I understand romainguy in that point. Why should a company care about the dispersion of Linux or other systems.
Sep 03 07:27:50 <anno^da_> They care about bringing their product to the market. And the biggest market is Windows at the moment.
Sep 03 07:27:59 <muthu> but i don't understand why goog took a different stand when it comes to mobile!
Sep 03 07:28:08 <romainguy> what different stand?
Sep 03 07:28:16 <muthu> why you need android?
Sep 03 07:28:32 <romainguy> because the mobile world is not open enough and not good enough for browsing the web
Sep 03 07:28:43 <anno^da_> What has Android to do with the desktop market? (windows/Linux/OSX)
Sep 03 07:29:10 <muthu> ha! i get it
Sep 03 07:29:11 <romainguy> besides, Google specifically said in the comic that Chrome is meant to help improve every browser
Sep 03 07:29:18 <romainguy> not create a new product
Sep 03 07:29:24 <zenob> hi guys
Sep 03 07:29:35 <zenob> how can i get current gps position ?
Sep 03 07:29:41 <muthu> so chrome is not a replacement for FF or IE?
Sep 03 07:29:48 <romainguy> it can be if you choose so
Sep 03 07:29:59 <anno^da_> muthu: It is all about choice.
Sep 03 07:30:04 <muthu> then how does it help improve other browsers?
Sep 03 07:30:08 <romainguy> but what we really want is all the browsers out there to have super fast Javascript and super fast rendering and respect the standards
Sep 03 07:30:17 <romainguy> because that's good for our apps, and for everybody's apps
Sep 03 07:30:43 <romainguy> if you use Gmail, it doesn't matter if you are using Firefox or IE or Chrome
Sep 03 07:31:01 <muthu> i know what you are saying..
Sep 03 07:31:21 <muthu> but in future if you decide windows o/s is not really supporting the web platform as goog likes..
Sep 03 07:31:29 <muthu> then would goog write a desktop o/s?
Sep 03 07:31:36 <sztanpet> omg
Sep 03 07:31:57 <muthu> OMG!
Sep 03 07:31:57 <snadge> google has already stated in the past that they have no interest in creating a web browser
Sep 03 07:32:15 <snadge> they have also stated in the past they have no interest in creating an operating system
Sep 03 07:32:23 <snadge> so i'll let you figure out what the most likely outcome is
Sep 03 07:32:24 <snadge> ;)
Sep 03 07:32:31 <muthu> snadge: haha
Sep 03 07:32:33 <gambler> muthu's OMG is Oh My Ganesha
Sep 03 07:32:38 <muthu> lol
Sep 03 07:32:44 <muthu> gambler: rofl
Sep 03 07:32:46 <tomgibara> The reasons for google to create chrome, and android for that matter, seem transparent to me
Sep 03 07:32:48 <NiZoX> uh
Sep 03 07:32:50 <muthu> today is ganesha festival!!
Sep 03 07:32:53 <gambler> :p
Sep 03 07:33:52 <snadge> just like whatever goog's reasons would be for creating an OS ;)
Sep 03 07:34:15 <gambler> maybe I'll get Indian for dinner tonight...In Ganesha's honour ofc
Sep 03 07:34:24 <muthu> hehe
Sep 03 07:34:54 <tomgibara> They have the best services in the market, so they want to compete on merit
Sep 03 07:35:01 <tomgibara> closed platforms are a threat to them because they can throttle user's access to their services
Sep 03 07:35:16 <tomgibara> Google are simply eliminating threats to their business
Sep 03 07:35:26 <snadge> so microsoft was right to be scared of google from the beginning
Sep 03 07:35:34 <tomgibara> (in a positive way too)
Sep 03 07:36:14 <snadge> android is an operating system.. granted it is for mobile phones.. for now!
Sep 03 07:36:14 <muthu> i'm surprised it took so long for goog to come out with a browser
Sep 03 07:36:36 <muthu> i'm sure GoogOS is on the cards..
Sep 03 07:36:42 <snadge> hell.. you could even argue chrome is an operating system
Sep 03 07:36:49 <snadge> it has a built in task manager
Sep 03 07:36:58 <muthu> chrome is the web o/s
Sep 03 07:37:02 <tomgibara> muthu: Perhaps they expected more progress? Or perhaps it's taken a very long time.
Sep 03 07:37:20 <muthu> tomgibara: yeah, guess the time has come now
Sep 03 07:37:21 <romainguy> or perhaps there was no need before
Sep 03 07:37:31 <romainguy> it's also not a simple endeavor :)
Sep 03 07:37:35 <snadge> so what happens when people decide that windows is redundant.. and they want the most basic system, to be able to run google applications from
Sep 03 07:38:09 <snadge> maybe they dont wish to pay for windows.. since all they do is run google mail, and google earth
Sep 03 07:38:14 <tomgibara> romainguy: When you said no need before, why is there a need now?
Sep 03 07:38:45 <snadge> logic would dictate that something like android, could be created for personal computers.. laptops etc
Sep 03 07:38:46 <romainguy> tomgibara: I said "perhaps", I'm just throwing an hypothesis here
Sep 03 07:38:52 <tomgibara> yes
Sep 03 07:39:00 <muthu> snadge: good point
Sep 03 07:39:04 <romainguy> tomgibara: maybe the complexity of modern web apps is too much for current browsers
Sep 03 07:39:29 <tomgibara> What I meant before is that things seem to be improving in the browser market, but perhaps when the project was started, they had no hope that would happen
Sep 03 07:40:02 <tomgibara> Either way I was excited to see a large architectural overlap with Android
Sep 03 07:40:12 <romainguy> :)
Sep 03 07:40:24 <snadge> i just dont believe that android and chrome are what they appear to be on the surface
Sep 03 07:40:26 <gambler> google is probably making everything WINE compatible...One day they will just post an ISO with all their software running off a Linux kernel and regular joes dont know the difference
Sep 03 07:40:27 <tomgibara> And it runs very well, I've been road testing it since it was released.
Sep 03 07:40:40 <romainguy> it's interesting to see that we now have 2 very interesting VMs built at Google
Sep 03 07:40:42 <snadge> and that its actually a direct assault at microsoft
Sep 03 07:41:18 <romainguy> snadge: there are probably easier and cheaper ways to do so :))
Sep 03 07:41:39 <snadge> romainguy: okay then.. perhaps its an unintended consequence
Sep 03 07:41:46 <snadge> that for google to succeed, microsoft must fail
Sep 03 07:41:56 <romainguy> all I know is that in the Android team, we just try to make the mobile world better :)
Sep 03 07:42:30 <snadge> google is the only company in the world.. that makes steve ballmer throw chairs
Sep 03 07:42:36 <tomgibara> romainguy <- faithful footsoldier of progress
Sep 03 07:43:14 <romainguy> tomgibara: :)
Sep 03 07:43:27 <tomgibara> :)
Sep 03 07:44:10 <snadge> portable devices is the key to unlocking the monopoly on the desktop.. everyone knows this
Sep 03 07:44:47 <snadge> if android takes market share away from winmo .. things will get interesting in the desktop space
Sep 03 07:45:20 <muthu> how windows loses its desktop share would be interesting to watch, if it happens
Sep 03 07:46:26 <muthu> one thing which i don't get is..
Sep 03 07:46:59 <muthu> goog seems to be so gaurded in making their objectives clear
Sep 03 07:58:20 <muthu> The browser wars are back on - Microsoft now faces competition from Google's new browser
Sep 03 07:58:26 <muthu> that's from my local paper
Sep 03 08:01:30 <anno^da_> http://multitouch.fieryferret.com/  <- I have to built that table after my thesis.
Sep 03 08:05:27 <snadge> lol i love the media
Sep 03 08:05:47 <snadge> interpreting the release of chromium as a direct attack at microsoft
Sep 03 08:06:07 <cutmasta> mornin
Sep 03 08:07:59 <anno^da_> snadge: haha yeah. Well they called Android to be dead and two days later it was the biggest challenger for the iPhone :-)
Sep 03 08:08:21 <anno^da_> So I don't believe trust anything which is shown in the media.
Sep 03 08:08:48 <romainguy> anno^da_: they just have very very very short memory and very very very little shame :)
Sep 03 08:09:14 <anno^da_> Definetly. :-)
Sep 03 08:09:28 <anno^da_> It is all about the big headlines.
Sep 03 08:09:44 <anno^da_> If they are true or not isn't the most important thing.
Sep 03 09:36:29 <EQU> hello, it's possible to play sound during phone talk ?
Sep 03 09:38:23 <EQU> for example: I'am talking with friend by phone, and I want he, hear new mp3
Sep 03 09:38:37 <EQU> android can do that ?
Sep 03 09:54:27 <zenob> how can i enable / disable gps,or any other provider in android ?
Sep 03 11:13:19 <anno^da_> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/03/sony-ericsson-releases-sdk-for-xperia-x1-panel-interface/  <- Look at this video. It makes me love when I see the man trying to scroll down with that tiny scroll bar. That must be "real" touch experience :D
Sep 03 11:13:37 * anno^da_ notices that this must be irony :)
Sep 03 11:14:13 <muthu> anno^da_: what o/s is that?
Sep 03 11:15:01 <cutmasta> anno^da_, include <irony></irony> ;)
Sep 03 11:16:04 <anno^da_> windows mobile
Sep 03 11:16:11 <anno^da_> @ muthu
Sep 03 11:16:20 <muthu> thx
Sep 03 11:17:01 <muthu> anyone know if qt required for gnome?
Sep 03 11:17:18 <muthu> can i safely remove that from fedora 9?
Sep 03 11:18:20 <muthu> qt is required only for kde, right?
Sep 03 11:19:33 <anno^da_> If no application uses QT on your desktop you can remove it
Sep 03 11:19:54 <muthu> i see only kde apps use it
Sep 03 11:20:03 <anno^da_> But the package management should inform you about dependencies.
Sep 03 11:20:16 <anno^da_> Yeah ok then it should be no problem if you are not using KDE anymore.
Sep 03 11:20:31 <muthu> 23 deps to be removed
Sep 03 11:21:03 <muthu> arts, qt3, pyqt, k3b.. etc.,
Sep 03 11:21:27 <muthu> i'm just trying to slim down my linux system
Sep 03 11:21:32 <muthu> fedora9 + gnomre
Sep 03 11:21:34 <muthu> that's it
Sep 03 11:21:43 <anno^da_> why dont you just remove KDE. So your QT stuff should be gone as well.
Sep 03 11:21:55 <muthu> i did
Sep 03 11:21:59 <anno^da_> Ah ok
Sep 03 11:22:04 <muthu> but guess, some of them are still left
Sep 03 11:22:27 <anno^da_> (I just know that from Ubuntu where you can remove QT by removing KDE)
Sep 03 11:22:32 <muthu> i might have partially remove kde
Sep 03 11:22:50 <muthu> kdelibs are still left..
Sep 03 11:23:27 <anno^da_> lol what is this page: http://htcdream.com/
Sep 03 11:23:32 <anno^da_> Does someone know it ?
Sep 03 11:23:36 <cutmasta> fake
Sep 03 11:23:39 <cutmasta> nothing more
Sep 03 11:23:43 <anno^da_> It was linked at heise online haha
Sep 03 11:23:54 <cutmasta> heise
Sep 03 11:23:55 <cutmasta> tzz
Sep 03 11:23:56 <cutmasta> ;)
Sep 03 11:23:58 <anno^da_> :D
Sep 03 11:24:14 <anno^da_> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Android-Programmierwettbewerb-ist-beendet--/meldung/115369
Sep 03 11:24:15 <cutmasta> egistrant:
Sep 03 11:24:15 <cutmasta>    Rob Jackson
Sep 03 11:24:15 <cutmasta>    4624 Willow Grove Drive
Sep 03 11:24:15 <cutmasta>    Ellicott City, MD  21042
Sep 03 11:24:15 <cutmasta>    US
Sep 03 11:24:28 <cutmasta> IF it would be a "official" site
Sep 03 11:24:33 <cutmasta> then htc would have registered it
Sep 03 11:24:38 <cutmasta> and not "Rob JAckson"
Sep 03 11:24:54 <anno^da_> The best is "Dream 100"
Sep 03 11:24:56 <muthu> rob might be working for htc ;)
Sep 03 11:24:59 <cutmasta> lol
Sep 03 11:25:17 <cutmasta> <nelson>haha</nelson>
Sep 03 11:25:22 <anno^da_> We all know that HTC has registered G1 for Trademark :P
Sep 03 11:25:40 <cutmasta> not "g-unit" ;)
Sep 03 11:25:41 <anno^da_> But "Dream 100" sounds nice as well :D
Sep 03 11:27:13 <anno^da_> Large touchscreen with haptic feedbac  <- that would be nice even if it is fake
Sep 03 11:29:57 <muthu> if i get logged out.. my linux crashed!
Sep 03 13:07:54 <gambler> Is anyone out there using JSR-82 or some other BT setup?
Sep 03 15:11:13 <cutmasta> bye all
Sep 03 15:22:22 <jasta> hmm
Sep 03 15:22:32 <jasta> so, i'm thinking about rescheduling my ireland trip for the spring
Sep 03 15:28:02 <jasta> because my idiot friend couldn't get his passport in order
Sep 03 15:49:30 <yakischloba> useless
Sep 03 15:49:54 <jasta> or we might try to push the trip out by 4 days as best case scenario that would get him there on time
Sep 03 15:53:58 <SanMehat> morning
Sep 03 15:54:05 <jasta> morning
Sep 03 15:54:06 <DJTachyon> hello
Sep 03 15:54:44 <DJTachyon> so there is no way to even generate a tone?
Sep 03 15:54:54 <DJTachyon> well .. i know about the built in ones
Sep 03 15:55:58 <DJTachyon> i figured i could decode an mp3 into wave, read the raw binary, and output to tones directly :P
Sep 03 15:56:12 <DJTachyon> bah .. how did those sequencer applications get created
Sep 03 15:58:04 <DJTachyon> http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/app.html?id=36
Sep 03 15:59:32 <zhobbs> midi support? not sure...
Sep 03 16:02:25 <DJTachyon> thats the only thing I can think of ... is real-time midi stuff..
Sep 03 16:02:37 <DJTachyon> which is useless for what I need..
Sep 03 16:02:56 <DJTachyon> bah ill have to wait til the hardware audio APIs open up or something
Sep 03 16:03:05 <zhobbs> me too....
Sep 03 16:13:11 <SanMehat> ginge: around?
Sep 03 16:43:40 <zhobbs> jasta: does Five play last.fm streams or just report songs played?
Sep 03 17:10:13 <jasta> zhobbs: i'd like it to eventually play the streams, but i am not going to look into that until the MediaPlayer stops being such a pile of crap
Sep 03 17:12:56 <jasta> and actuallyt he reporting songs code is currently gone as i massively redesign the player service
Sep 03 17:13:14 <jasta> the code is in flux right now
Sep 03 17:33:09 <zhobbs> so looks like tabs have been neutered in 0.9?
Sep 03 17:33:59 <zhobbs> for no good reason
Sep 03 17:34:08 <km-> does anyone know if anyone's writing a voip client for android?
Sep 03 17:34:20 <zhobbs> km-: I've seen some
Sep 03 17:34:26 <zhobbs> km-: just a working demo
Sep 03 17:34:44 <km-> pondering whether or not I want to write one
Sep 03 17:34:56 <km-> if there's one already written then no need for me to reinvent the wheel
Sep 03 17:36:05 <romainguy_> zhobbs: how were they neutered?
Sep 03 17:36:21 <muthu> i thought they added an example for tabs
Sep 03 17:37:56 <km-> I wonder if the dialer application can be extended
Sep 03 17:38:01 <zhobbs> romainguy_: you used to be able to setIndicator(View)
Sep 03 17:38:11 <anno^da_> http://androidcommunity.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/htc_dream_render.jpg  <- I would take this render phone. :-) It looks more finished in the details. (just dreaming :D)
Sep 03 17:39:26 <zhobbs> romainguy_: or am I missing how to set the indicator?
Sep 03 17:40:57 <SanMehat> km-: The dialer app can be replaced I believe
Sep 03 17:41:21 <km-> I'd like to extend it to make you be able to click a tab to say "call via voip" or something.
Sep 03 17:41:32 <km-> why reinvent the wheel if there's already a good dialer app that I can jack into.
Sep 03 17:41:57 <km-> (hopefully)
Sep 03 17:42:54 <km->  Intent mIntent = new Intent ("android.intent.action.CALL",
Sep 03 17:42:55 <km-> Uri.parse("tel:123123123"));
Sep 03 17:43:00 <km-> hmmm.....
Sep 03 17:43:07 <squeakypants> hey peoples
Sep 03 17:43:31 <squeakypants> how do i access the source code?
Sep 03 17:44:09 <zhobbs> squeakypants: wait or decompile
Sep 03 17:44:23 <squeakypants> i see
Sep 03 17:44:33 <km-> That Uri.parse line makes me curious -- if you can extend the call event, you could pass it a voip uri and voila.
Sep 03 17:44:34 <zhobbs> squeakypants: when phones come out supposedly so will the source
Sep 03 17:44:55 <squeakypants> zhobbs: okay cool, so october 13? :)
Sep 03 17:45:19 <zhobbs> km-: you should be able to setup an IntentFilter to handle tel: urls, then the user will be prompted when an app tries to call
Sep 03 17:45:25 <squeakypants> i wanted to check out the messenger app, I only can find methods to send messages, not to receive them
Sep 03 17:45:31 <zhobbs> km-: but action.CALL may be a special case...don't know
Sep 03 17:46:00 <zhobbs> squeakypants: if you run ddms (or emulator control view in eclipse) you can send SMS's to the emulator
Sep 03 17:46:33 <squeakypants> zhobbs: no I mean, I want to make an app that receives SMS's
Sep 03 17:46:58 <squeakypants> zhobbs: or, more importantly, receives SMS's from a certain address
Sep 03 17:47:00 <zhobbs> squeakypants: http://www.helloandroid.com/node/159
Sep 03 17:47:21 <zhobbs> the code is for M5, but the concept is the same
Sep 03 17:47:21 <squeakypants> zhobbs: holy crap, thanks! :)
Sep 03 17:47:29 <squeakypants> M5?
Sep 03 17:47:42 <zhobbs> squeakypants: the old SDK version
Sep 03 17:47:47 <squeakypants> aha
Sep 03 17:48:11 <zhobbs> IntentReceiver has been renamed...
Sep 03 17:48:29 <zhobbs> BroadcastReceiver
Sep 03 17:55:58 <km-> When a telephone call comes in or an sms comes in
Sep 03 17:56:11 <km-> is an Intent generated that triggers the phone app?
Sep 03 17:56:40 <zhobbs> km-: probably
Sep 03 17:56:52 <zhobbs> km-: you mean the built in messenger app?
Sep 03 17:57:48 <km-> well, I'm just trying to understand the life cycle of an incoming call
Sep 03 17:58:09 <km-> because I'd like to make an app glue that makes a voip client use the same channels as a phone call would
Sep 03 17:58:26 <zhobbs> km-: calls are different, not sure that there is an intent for incoming calls or not
Sep 03 17:58:31 <km-> yeah.
Sep 03 17:58:38 <km-> That's the deep magic I'm curious about.
Sep 03 17:59:03 <km-> makes me wish I worked for google :)
Sep 03 17:59:09 <zhobbs> yeah, it'd be nice if anytime a call is dialed you just had an option for voip or cell
Sep 03 17:59:10 <km-> gotta wait for the source for android to be released I guess
Sep 03 17:59:34 <km-> yeah.  my vision is that as well as, have voip and regular telephone calls come in looking similar
Sep 03 17:59:38 <km-> using the same interfaces
Sep 03 17:59:59 <km-> joe shmoe hits dialer, dials 12345 and then hits menu and presses the Call Via Voip button
Sep 03 18:00:10 <km-> call is processed with the voip glue instead of the radio
Sep 03 18:00:45 <km-> alternately, when a voip call comes in, the normal android "incoming call from 12345" box pops up with the normal hold/conference/etc buttons which I would map to their voip equivilents in a voip call
Sep 03 18:01:27 <zhobbs> km-: that'd be tricker than the outgoing I think
Sep 03 18:01:44 <km-> yeah, it depends on how the apps are written and what calls it
Sep 03 18:02:04 <km-> I mean, if there's somewhere in the android source code that master-maps what activities to generate based on intents
Sep 03 18:02:09 <km-> or if that's dynamically changeable
Sep 03 18:02:19 <km-> then this can be done really by extending all of those classes to have the voip glue
Sep 03 18:03:23 <km-> hmm, interesting aside -- i wonder if the G1 will have UMA for tmobile
Sep 03 18:03:43 <km-> and if so, I'm really curious how that would be implemented
Sep 03 18:03:51 <km-> since that would be EXACTLY what I'm talking about, really.
Sep 03 18:04:07 <km-> an independent glue that jacks into the existing calling paradigm that simply makes the call go voip rather than radio
Sep 03 18:05:24 <zhobbs> but for incoming calls the call is already coming to you over the cell networks...so is there a mechanism to hand and existing incoming call to a voip service?
Sep 03 18:05:40 <km-> with UMA the call comes in via data
Sep 03 18:06:05 <km-> when your phone links up with UMA the calls come in as wifi, or if they don't, they come in as EDGE and get promoted to UMA real quick-like
Sep 03 18:06:18 <km-> either way, there's gotta be some kind of handoff to the app to make the call become data oriented
Sep 03 18:08:01 <km-> hmm
Sep 03 18:08:09 <km-> the G1 apparently will not have UMA
Sep 03 18:09:25 <km-> I have to believe it is probable to easy to make this work in software - if tmo was a member of OHA they had to have been whispering in someone's ear at google that at some point they'd want to have UMA available.
Sep 03 18:55:12 <cutmasta> re
Sep 03 18:57:49 <zhobbs> romainguy_: any idea why they killed custom tab indicators?
Sep 03 19:10:22 <jasta> zhobbs: you could probably still just extend TabWidget to do it.
Sep 03 19:10:26 <jasta> TabWidget isn't that magical.
Sep 03 19:10:59 <zhobbs> jasta: yeah, just hacked a fix...the problem is everything is done in TabSpec.mIndicatorStrategy which is private
Sep 03 19:11:38 <zhobbs> mt fix just overrides TabWidget.addView() to only call super.addView when I pass it a view, not when TabHost does
Sep 03 19:11:44 <zhobbs> s/mt/my
Sep 03 19:12:23 <zhobbs> but you still have to use reflection to change a couple drawables in TabHost
Sep 03 19:12:30 <zhobbs> or TabWidget that is
Sep 03 19:12:49 <jasta> eww
Sep 03 19:13:02 <zhobbs> yeah.....
Sep 03 19:13:04 <jasta> i had thought they removed tab indicators in favor of extending it to do that
Sep 03 19:13:26 <jasta> you know, the widget itself is actually trivial though.  it would possibly be even simpler still to just construct it from scratch
Sep 03 19:13:30 <jasta> for your purposes
Sep 03 19:13:38 <zhobbs> I have to use reflection to set mBottomLeftStrip, mBottomRightStrip to empty drawables
Sep 03 19:13:51 <zhobbs> jasta: yeah, I've thought about doing that
Sep 03 19:16:05 <tomgibara> zhobbs: reflection? won't a cast do?
Sep 03 19:16:34 <zhobbs> tomgibara: don't know, using reflection because they are Private
Sep 03 19:17:31 <tomgibara> zhobbs: What class are you reflecting on?
Sep 03 19:17:39 <zhobbs> TabWidget
Sep 03 19:18:05 <zhobbs> Field f1 = TabWidget.class.getDeclaredField("mBottomLeftStrip");
Sep 03 19:18:05 <zhobbs> 			f1.setAccessible(true);
Sep 03 19:18:05 <zhobbs> 	    	f1.set(tw, this.getResources().getDrawable(R.drawable.empty));
Sep 03 19:20:06 <tomgibara> In 'vanilla java' reflection doesn't allow you to circumvent declared member access when there is a security manager present.
Sep 03 19:20:40 <tomgibara> In a desktop Java app, there is no SecurityManager by default
Sep 03 19:20:55 <tomgibara> So I'm not that surpised that Android permits this
Sep 03 19:21:15 <tomgibara> I'm interested though in how one could use it... hmm
Sep 03 19:22:15 <zhobbs> yeah, it's interesting...
Sep 03 19:22:48 <tomgibara> If I understood the video of the Dalvik I/O talk correctly, there is some sort of 'shared heap' between the first zygote process and it's forks
Sep 03 19:23:47 <tomgibara> This sounds too risky to me, there must be something I'm not seeing
Sep 03 19:26:03 <fadden> After a fork(), parent and child share physical pages.  Any changes cause a copy-on-write, so changing data in one process does not affect what the other process has.
Sep 03 19:30:32 <romainguy_> zhobbs: you can still set indicators
Sep 03 19:30:57 <tomgibara> fadden: Yes, I understand that, so now I'm confused :) I need to see that part of the talk again
Sep 03 19:33:30 <jasta> romainguy_: how?
Sep 03 19:37:04 <zhobbs> romainguy_: yeah, I can't figure out how either
Sep 03 19:38:25 <tomgibara> fadden: Thanks for that, it cleared up a misunderstanding I've carried since I watched the talk on YouTube.
Sep 03 19:39:12 <romainguy_> zhobbs: what about the setIndicator(CharSequence, Drawable) method?
Sep 03 19:39:23 <jasta> romainguy_: we mean custom indicators, as you could with M5.
Sep 03 19:39:44 <romainguy_> how is that not custom?
Sep 03 19:39:46 <jasta> M5 had an indicator strategy which let you just plop a view on there.
Sep 03 19:39:48 <romainguy_> what do you mean by custom?
Sep 03 19:39:49 <romainguy_> ah
Sep 03 19:39:51 <romainguy_> any view
Sep 03 19:39:54 <romainguy_> yeah, that's gone
Sep 03 19:40:49 <zhobbs> what can you customize?  just the icon/text ?
Sep 03 19:41:37 <tomgibara> zhobbs: If you're desperate, you can construct the TabWidget,  add it to the view hierarchy and then walk the hierarchy to make modifications (carefully)
Sep 03 19:42:18 <zhobbs> tomgibara: I extended TabWidget and overrided addView()...and I only add the view if it has an ImageView with a specific id...
Sep 03 19:42:56 <zhobbs> so then I TabHost.addTab() (and TabHost calls TabWidget.addView(), which is ignored), and manually call TabWidget.addView()
Sep 03 19:43:14 <tomgibara> zhobbs: I'm being a goldfish - you explained that that above.
Sep 03 19:43:27 <romainguy_> zhobbs: what exactly are you trying to achieve?
Sep 03 19:43:49 <zhobbs> romainguy_: customizing the look of the tab indicators
Sep 03 19:43:57 <romainguy_> yeah I gathered that
Sep 03 19:44:03 <romainguy_> but what are you trying to do exactly?
Sep 03 19:44:09 <romainguy_> what can't you do with label + icon
Sep 03 19:44:40 <zhobbs> achieve the design given to me by our designer
Sep 03 19:44:57 <romainguy_> which is?
Sep 03 19:45:23 <zhobbs> which is tabs that don't look like android's tabs
Sep 03 19:45:43 <romainguy_> I can't help you if you don't describe your problem clearly
Sep 03 19:45:43 <romainguy_> sorry
Sep 03 19:45:56 <zhobbs> romainguy_: hold on, I'll show a screen
Sep 03 19:46:36 <zhobbs> romainguy_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G30K-ZuX3E
Sep 03 19:46:43 <zhobbs> the buttons on the bottom are actually tabs
Sep 03 19:47:07 <zhobbs> worked up until 0.9 because I could just do TabSpec.setIndicator(View v)
Sep 03 19:47:35 <tomgibara> zhobbs: What's wrong with a drawable for each?
Sep 03 19:48:26 <zhobbs> they look like the tabs in the contacts app
Sep 03 19:48:38 <tomgibara> I see what you mean
Sep 03 19:49:02 <tomgibara> Don't use the tabs component would be my approach
Sep 03 19:49:44 <zhobbs> yeah, I need to just create my own Tabs using ActivityGroup
Sep 03 19:49:48 <romainguy_> zhobbs: ok, so why can't you do that with just a drawable?
Sep 03 19:50:13 <zhobbs> romainguy_: I can show what they look like if I just use a drawable
Sep 03 19:50:28 <romainguy_> you would probably need to change the tabs background
Sep 03 19:50:59 <tomgibara> romainguy_: can you do that with a style?
Sep 03 19:52:23 <romainguy_> you should be able to
Sep 03 20:23:44 <anno^da_> Chrome says: 10.2 You may not (and you may not permit anyone else to) copy, modify, create a derivative work of, reverse engineer, decompile or otherwise attempt to extract the source code of the Software or any part thereof, unless this is expressly permitted or required by law, or unless you have been specifically told that you may do so by Google, in writing.  - Open Source? Oh I like it.
Sep 03 20:24:55 <Dougie187> isnt it under the BSD license?
Sep 03 20:25:20 <tomgibara> anno^da_: I think the licence under which the source code is published would be deemed to provide "express permission"
Sep 03 20:25:46 <anno^da_> tomgibara: Well the project behind Chrome is chromium but Chrome is not Chromium.
Sep 03 20:26:06 <Dougie187> and Chromium is open sourced? but chrome is not?
Sep 03 20:26:14 <anno^da_> Thats it. :-)
Sep 03 20:26:22 <tomgibara> That seems sensible
Sep 03 20:27:34 <zhobbs> source hasn't been released for chrome yet?
Sep 03 20:28:04 <anno^da_> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/
Sep 03 20:30:11 <anno^da_> and thats from the groups: Google Chrome is built with open source code from Chromium.
Sep 03 20:33:00 <tomgibara> Chome|Chromium is a practical, and probably necessary, dichotomy
Sep 03 20:38:46 <anno^da-> well it is for me the same like webkit and Safari. I can built a working browser from the sources but it is not the same like the real browser called Chrome.
Sep 03 20:43:08 <tomgibara> anno^da-: That's only the same if chromium only supplies the browser engine, which I don't believe is the case
Sep 03 20:43:42 <anno^da-> well you right with that.
Sep 03 20:44:12 <anno^da-> but calling chrome open source would mean that I am able to download the code of this beta version
Sep 03 20:44:43 <anno^da-> everything else is well I dont know "industry" open source. :-)
Sep 03 20:46:38 <tomgibara> I agree that calling Chrome "open source" is an elision
Sep 03 20:47:27 <tomgibara> but I wouldn't have expected anything else
Sep 03 20:47:55 <anno^da-> true. But the media mixing that up: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2008/09/02/google-unveils-chrome-source-code-and-linux-port
Sep 03 20:48:09 <zhobbs> if it's open source I should be able to download it and build it
Sep 03 20:48:27 <anno^da-> On the one hand they talk about chrome. Several lines later they talk about Chromium and back.
Sep 03 20:49:00 <cutmasta> bye all
Sep 03 20:50:10 <tomgibara> I don't think the article has necessarily made any errors
Sep 03 20:50:40 <tomgibara> "Chrome source available under a permissive BSD license" << This is true if chromium contains all of the source for the chrome browser
Sep 03 20:51:49 <anno^da-> And thats sth we dont know.
Sep 03 20:52:31 <anno^da-> We cant know since chrome is closed. The situation is pretty wired. :)
Sep 03 20:53:25 <anno^da-> and thats from the groups: Google Chrome is built with open source code from Chromium.  <- thats the essential sentence. "built ... with code FROM"
Sep 03 20:55:30 <tomgibara> I agree that the article has probably erred in its wording and has probably not said what it intends. It should have said "Chromium" instead of "Chrome source"
Sep 03 20:56:00 <tomgibara> People in the media make these mistakes all the time.
Sep 03 20:56:36 <tomgibara> Programmers often talk loosely like this too
Sep 03 21:20:09 <tomgibara> Has anyone tried using Path.FillType.WINDING?
Sep 03 21:33:25 <squeakypants> hey
Sep 03 21:33:50 <squeakypants> I made an app that receives SMSes from a certain address, but they still go to the messenger too
Sep 03 21:34:02 <squeakypants> is there a way I can block them from going to the messenging app?
Sep 03 21:56:46 <f00f-> use ports
Sep 03 21:56:58 <f00f-> or whatever the android equivsalent of that is, squeakypants
Sep 03 22:02:35 <squeakypants> f00f: ports?
Sep 03 22:02:48 <f00f-> S60 has the notion of ports for SMS
Sep 03 22:03:08 <f00f-> so you can send an SMS with a port number to another device
Sep 03 22:03:11 <f00f-> and an application will catch it
Sep 03 22:03:18 <herriojr> hey, so in m5, I was able to run a jar compiled in the apk file, but in 0.9 it is dying due to opcode fload_0
Sep 03 22:03:24 <f00f-> not sure if 'ports' are part of the SMS APi or just a platform thing
Sep 03 22:03:48 <herriojr> as far as I know, fload_0 is loading into a floating point register 0
Sep 03 22:03:55 <f00f-> squeaky, i'd be quite curious to the answer though
Sep 03 22:04:05 <herriojr> so, did they at one point have float support but discontinued it?
Sep 03 22:04:37 <zhobbs> there is still support for float's
Sep 03 22:06:35 <herriojr> why would the verifier fail it due to an fload_0 opcode then?
Sep 03 22:06:39 <herriojr> is it just a 0.9 bug?
Sep 03 22:09:47 <herriojr> http://pastebin.ca/1193081
Sep 03 22:10:03 <herriojr> it happens when I try to use java.beans.PropertyDescriptor
Sep 03 22:12:43 <fadden> It's not able to find java.beans.PropertyDescriptor.  Note that opcode 0x22 is float_0 in Java bytecode; it means something else in Dalvik bytecode.
Sep 03 22:13:02 <herriojr> ah ok, does anyone have the bytecodes for dalvik?
Sep 03 22:13:16 <herriojr> and their meaning?
Sep 03 22:14:10 <fadden> "unable to resolve new-instance" indicates it's trying to create a new instance of the specified class.
Sep 03 22:14:29 <herriojr> yeah, but it could potentially fail because of an invalid byte code
Sep 03 22:14:40 <dmoffett> herriojr: did you use a jar or something not compiled for Dalvik?
Sep 03 22:14:41 <herriojr> and hence, it might still throw the same error, right?
Sep 03 22:14:50 <herriojr> yes, how do I compile it for dalvik?
Sep 03 22:14:54 <herriojr> it worked on m5 though
Sep 03 22:15:20 <dmoffett> Can't speak to why it worked before.
Sep 03 22:16:19 <dmoffett> I guess if you have the source you can include in your project?  Sorry I have not tried that yet.
Sep 03 22:16:54 <herriojr> the jar is included in the project, and I have the source, so I can hopefully just recompile it for dalvik
Sep 03 22:17:06 <herriojr> I'd still like to keep it as a separate jar
Sep 03 22:19:57 <herriojr> so, the dx tool is supposed to convert a .jar file into .dex, so I'm assuming building through eclipse would do this
Sep 03 22:20:18 <herriojr> so maybe the dx tool is broken?
Sep 03 22:20:24 <herriojr> with the new SDK
Sep 03 22:21:16 <harryjr> hello, have anybody created an app like NetShare for iPhone? it should be pretty easy, but would be very neat if it was done
Sep 03 22:22:15 <jasta> harryjr: it actually wouldn't be that easy.  you'd quite probably need a JNI layer to make it work as Android doesn't give you access to the bluetooth or USB stacks.
Sep 03 22:22:40 <jasta> and distributing a native component is currently very uncertain.  we don't know that it will even be possible for end users to do easily.
Sep 03 22:22:43 <jasta> (probably not)
Sep 03 22:23:00 <bricode> let alone the carriers being able for you to do that.
Sep 03 22:23:20 <jasta> actually, the carriers couldn't do squat about it if you just hacked a native layer.  Linux can do it just fine.
Sep 03 22:23:21 <bricode> err, s/being able/allowing
Sep 03 22:23:35 <jasta> in fact, Linux can already do it.  your native layer would just be to open up the netfilter stack and hook up usbnet
Sep 03 22:23:35 <harryjr> why would you want the bluetooth or usb stack? if the phone has wifi, that's it.
Sep 03 22:23:43 <harryjr> and if you have access to the linux shell, it is pretty easy.
Sep 03 22:23:51 <jasta> harryjr: the wi-fi stack also isn't available.
Sep 03 22:24:10 <jasta> harryjr: you are missing one very important detail about Android.  the entire userland is in Java.  the native layer is likely going to be concealed completely.
Sep 03 22:24:35 <jasta> and all the system commands will not be possible to invoke from Java, if they even remain in the final firmware.
Sep 03 22:24:39 <harryjr> so, i wouldn't be able to open a shell or ssh into it or something?
Sep 03 22:24:47 <jasta> highly, highly unlikely.
Sep 03 22:25:04 <bricode> certain phones will allow it ;)
Sep 03 22:25:07 <jasta> the android team rightly considers that a gross security violation.
Sep 03 22:25:34 <harryjr> .. and here i'm all about the android over iphone because i'm supposed to have freedom.
Sep 03 22:25:43 <jasta> now, hooking up adb shell via usb may certainly be possible.  and with that you can probably go very far to install the proper components to your phone.
Sep 03 22:25:52 <jasta> possibly even a new kernel, but this is entirely speculation.
Sep 03 22:26:01 <jasta> what we do know is that Android isn't going to make this accessible to normal users.
Sep 03 22:27:17 <jasta> harryjr: if you are excited about Android simply because you falsely assumed that Linux means hackability, you are likely to be very disappointed.
Sep 03 22:27:37 <jasta> The end user experience on Android is not going to play up the fact that you've got Linux underneath, and teh Java middleware is a good example of that.
Sep 03 22:27:55 <harryjr> i'll probally just stick with my nokia 3310, it seems.
Sep 03 22:30:53 <f00f-> lollers
Sep 03 22:30:57 <jasta> just wait until it comes out.  i'm sure some clever hackers will be able to work through all the proprietary crud and do cool things still.
Sep 03 22:31:06 <f00f-> i wouldnt call it all proprietary
Sep 03 22:31:12 <jasta> but it will take the work of others to do that, i doubt very much that any of Google, T-Mobile, or HTC will want you tinkering too much
Sep 03 22:32:17 <jasta> f00f-: you wouldn't call the bootloader or firmware formats HTC uses proprietary?
Sep 03 22:32:43 <jasta> the linux kernel is not modular, so it's highly unlikely to be built with anything useful like advanced netfilter controls, usb host networking, etc.
Sep 03 22:33:06 <jasta> and the userland will probably be a bit of a maze to get through to make this work with just adb.
Sep 03 22:34:03 <f00f-> do you have an actual device with you jasta? ;)
Sep 03 22:34:12 <jasta> with access to the kernel, you could do this SO easy.  wouldn't even need to write code, just build a kernel that can do all this magic and toss it up to your device.  but how you do that will go through normally proprietary mechanisms.
Sep 03 22:34:31 <jasta> f00f-: do i have HTC devices?  yes, a lot of them.  do they use proprietary firmware images and toolchains?  yes, they do.
Sep 03 22:34:59 <jasta> but as i told harryjr, we don't know what the phones will be capable of "out of the box".
Sep 03 22:35:08 <f00f-> aye
Sep 03 22:36:01 <harryjr> i put my trust into the genious people out there. it would be a very sweet feature. 3g/hsdpa -> phone -> wifi -> computers.
Sep 03 22:36:05 <harryjr> jasta: thanks for the info, anyways.
Sep 03 22:36:56 <f00f-> jasta is such an android advocate ;P
Sep 03 22:36:59 <jasta> harryjr: as i said, i'm sure some very smart hackers will end up doing lots of cool things hacking open the phones
Sep 03 22:37:09 <jasta> harryjr: but i just doubt very much that HTC will drop an "open" phone on us out of the box.
Sep 03 22:37:13 <jasta> that just is so counter to the whole industry
Sep 03 22:37:44 <jasta> and Android in particular officially supports only the java userland, which is not capable of implementing the feature you desire.
Sep 03 22:38:29 <Dougie187> sounds like a fun conversation
Sep 03 22:40:29 <f00f-> harryjr: you want to give other devices access thru the android device's network connection?
Sep 03 22:40:47 <f00f-> a simple proxy server will work
Sep 03 22:40:55 <f00f-> just expose it over wifi
Sep 03 22:41:17 <jasta> f00f-: and where is the wifi stack?
Sep 03 22:41:24 <harryjr> ;)
Sep 03 22:41:30 <f00f-> it's coming
Sep 03 22:41:39 <jasta> f00f-: so, what you're reallying saying is "we don't know if this will work"
Sep 03 22:47:23 <jasta> f00f-: i am an android advocate, it's just that i don't like to lie to people.
Sep 03 22:49:04 <jasta> i also don't think Android is some silver bullet that will fix everything overnight.  and neither should you.
Sep 03 22:54:11 <Dougie187> that's muthu's job.
Sep 03 22:54:13 <Dougie187> ;)
Sep 03 23:11:57 <herriojr> has anyone else had problems instantiating java.beans.PropertyDescriptor?
Sep 04 00:35:33 <trigatch4> hi folks
Sep 04 00:41:47 <gambler> hi
Sep 04 00:42:18 <gambler> werent you supposed to tell me the secrets of running a good forum
Sep 04 02:30:55 <plusminus_> how to get the phone number of a contact?
Sep 04 02:31:45 <plusminus_> there is a android.provider.Contacts.People.Phones.CONTENT_DIRECTORY which is said to be a "SubTable" ??? Up to now I only knew Tables. Shouldn't there also be a CONTENT_URI ??
Sep 04 02:33:15 <plusminus_> like: People.CONTENT_URI.buildUpon().appendPath(People.Phones.CONTENT_DIRECTORY).build()
Sep 04 02:39:46 <jerkface03> anyone tried out chrome yet?
Sep 04 02:39:56 <jerkface03> i think it was a bad decision for them to skin it by default
Sep 04 02:55:32 <trigatch4> jerkface03
Sep 04 02:55:33 <trigatch4> you there?
Sep 04 02:59:00 <jerkface03> ya
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 04 02:59:57 2008