**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 19 02:59:57 2008 Sep 19 03:00:16 so many countries I never knew about o_O Sep 19 03:02:24 surely there's a library that has stuff like that? Sep 19 03:03:12 nope, not with name,countryocde,DrawableFlagID and boolean of drivingdirections are available Sep 19 03:04:15 please allow me to apologize Sep 19 03:05:23 i do ;) Sep 19 03:12:00 "SOUTH GEORGIA AND THE SOUTH SANDWICH ISLANDS " :-D Sep 19 03:12:02 OMG Sep 19 03:12:35 yeah.. that place goes off ;) check it on wikipedia Sep 19 03:16:53 the article is longer than the one about Andorid :-D Sep 19 03:19:06 apps-for-android is great Sep 19 03:38:12 in a gridview, when you traverse list items.. what's the event getting fired? Sep 19 03:38:23 muthu_: yeah, some nice examples Sep 19 03:38:37 plusminus_, photostream is great Sep 19 03:42:11 llol, there is even a town in the US called "Sandwich" Sep 19 03:46:18 can anyone upload apk's to google appstore? Sep 19 03:46:30 errr market Sep 19 04:29:04 muthu: is there more information about the market place than was put out a few weeks ago? Sep 19 05:03:44 dmoffett_, the rumored market date is oct 17 Sep 19 05:04:08 Cool, how reliable do you thinkk that is? Sep 19 05:04:27 since the launch is happening sep 23 Sep 19 05:04:32 guess that date looks good Sep 19 05:05:41 The build up is so different from the iPhone. Sep 19 05:06:24 yeah, exciting Sep 19 05:06:41 i'm just glad there's still some time left to build stuff Sep 19 05:07:34 Hopefully we can get our hands on devices to test. Sep 19 05:08:14 there's this tmobile program that you can enroll Sep 19 05:08:24 but that's for tmo stores Sep 19 05:08:25 Also I wonder what kind of apps will ship with the device. Sep 19 05:08:37 depends on TMo Sep 19 05:08:43 I signed up for that already. Sep 19 05:08:52 cool Sep 19 05:09:06 How is your app coming along? Sep 19 05:09:16 coming out great Sep 19 05:09:35 should be good to go oct 17 Sep 19 05:14:00 Good to hear. Sep 19 05:14:09 I think you have your work cut out for you. Sep 19 05:14:18 oh yeah Sep 19 05:14:45 being outside us is a disadvantage Sep 19 05:14:56 How so? Sep 19 05:15:01 devices? Sep 19 05:15:11 Not so far you won ADC I. :-) Sep 19 05:15:24 Hard to feel to sorry for you! :-) Sep 19 05:15:30 haha Sep 19 05:15:38 yeah, the devices Sep 19 05:15:44 and the network Sep 19 05:15:52 worried about testing..etc., Sep 19 05:16:04 Testing is going to be a real problem. Sep 19 05:16:34 yup Sep 19 05:17:00 If you happen to be with T-Mobile I guess it will be ok. Sep 19 05:17:11 right, probably contact them once its ready Sep 19 05:17:15 showcase and see if they like Sep 19 05:23:32 how's your app coming along? Sep 19 05:47:01 has anyone played with having the emulator open listening sockets? does it actually work, and what ip would you use to connect to it? Sep 19 05:49:30 it seems to listen just fine Sep 19 05:49:35 but is NAT' Sep 19 05:49:37 ed Sep 19 05:54:46 yay adb forward tcp:6100 tcp:6100 Sep 19 05:55:17 doh but looks like tcp only Sep 19 05:56:49 ooh. udp forwarding is a good idea, given that the SLIRP networking stuff in qemu can't handle udp Sep 19 05:57:26 of course I'm unsure how many production carrier networks will be udp friendly, given how heavily nat'd and filtered they tend to be Sep 19 05:57:48 in my case im looking to get a bonjour client working on android Sep 19 05:57:57 so only local wifi nets prolly Sep 19 05:59:10 specifically to get an itunes remote written for android ;) Sep 19 05:59:20 ive spent my night so far digging through packet logs Sep 19 05:59:26 and ive got a pretty good idea how its working Sep 19 05:59:29 except for one missing md5sum Sep 19 05:59:47 figured id check if i could run a bonjour server on android before i went any further Sep 19 06:00:07 it wouldnt be too hard to actually offload the bonjour as a lightweight app that runs alongside itunes Sep 19 06:00:26 * umdk1d3 doesnt like itunes, but its what people use i guess Sep 19 06:01:19 1.0 doesn't officially support native apps (it's a big can of worms -- we know people want it, but we're not ready yet), *but* you probably can kick something off in the background Sep 19 06:01:59 right, but the emulator seems to have no problem listening on a udp port Sep 19 06:02:00 also, you might be able to just bundle the service with your app that needs it Sep 19 06:02:01 it wouldnt need to be native Sep 19 06:02:37 oh yeah, udp should work fine on actual devices, provided it gets passed through the network, and if you're talking local wifi you should be good Sep 19 06:03:04 okay cool ^.^ Sep 19 06:03:09 do you need to do broadcast udp or just point to point? been ages since I've looked at the this stuff Sep 19 06:03:23 its looking like multicast udp Sep 19 06:03:30 MDNS specifically, on port 5353 Sep 19 07:11:46 are you using jmdns or something else Sep 19 07:13:07 idk yet Sep 19 07:13:16 was really just playing around with it before getting started Sep 19 07:17:14 well the udp thing is the only stopper that i can see Sep 19 07:17:38 thats really only needed for bonjour and the device pairing Sep 19 07:17:50 so we could have a helper script "fake" it Sep 19 07:18:08 we might only need it once at pairing Sep 19 10:15:11 hello, i want run build-in android image viewer with picture located at local file system "files/picture.jpg" Sep 19 10:15:25 anybody know how to do that / Sep 19 10:16:13 ? Sep 19 12:06:07 someone there ? Sep 19 12:06:29 Can someone tell me where the local userdata-qemu.img on Vista is located ? Sep 19 12:12:58 anno: use vista file search. isnt it in the user dir? Sep 19 12:14:47 yeah found it Sep 19 12:14:54 the search didnt find it :-) Sep 19 13:25:21 T-Mobile Germany is using Twitter to make people in Germany aware of the Android launch :) Sep 19 15:07:49 in wich mobile can i run android well Sep 19 15:08:59 tmobile Sep 19 15:09:38 witch country? Sep 19 15:12:01 muthu: is it nokia,or what? Sep 19 15:12:09 htc Sep 19 15:12:52 bravvve: and supposedly sprint soon, in the US Sep 19 15:13:02 "soon" Sep 19 15:14:15 and LG is androd work on it Sep 19 15:14:37 As far as I know there are no LG phones with Android coming Sep 19 15:15:26 no not with it,a LG phone that i can install android on it Sep 19 15:16:18 I don't know of any phones that can run android except for the G1 that will be on t-mobile Sep 19 15:17:40 muthu:??? Sep 19 15:18:24 bravvve: as far as I know, you would have to do a lot of work to get android running on a different phone. Sep 19 15:21:12 summatusmentis:work,what work? Sep 19 15:21:43 writing drivers, etc. in order to get it so the OS could boot and function on the new deivce Sep 19 15:21:46 device* Sep 19 15:23:13 summatusmentis:i gess that we cant get drivers easy Sep 19 15:24:44 you'd have to write them yourself Sep 19 15:24:58 it can be done, but it won't be easy Sep 19 15:26:08 what do u need? Sep 19 15:27:34 summatusmentis: what do u need? Sep 19 15:28:01 to write the drivers? do you have any programming experience at all? Sep 19 15:29:09 bravvve: http://code.google.com/android/ check that out, it'll help you get started, I think Sep 19 15:29:16 I don't actually do any android dev Sep 19 15:29:16 c ,java php asm Sep 19 15:29:21 ok Sep 19 15:29:29 thanku Sep 19 15:29:50 it's gonna be kernel stuff that you'll need to be doing Sep 19 15:35:36 can anyone from the US explain to me the phone company system over there? Every time I hear about a phone in the US, they seem to mention the carrier that "has" it. How does that work? Do carriers prevent people from running other phones on their network? Or is it just that all phones that are sold in the US are carrier-locked? Sep 19 15:37:23 it's sort of dependent on the type of carrier Sep 19 15:37:29 we have cdma and gsm carriers Sep 19 15:37:42 on top of that, we have contracts that you almost have to sign Sep 19 15:38:19 so, in exchange for signing away two years of your life, you get subsidization on phones. Often times carriers get exclusive deals on a certain phone, like the iPhone, or the upcoming G1 Sep 19 15:39:09 cdma carriers don't allow phones from other carriers on their networks, gsm carriers don't much have a choice, but afaik, all phones sold on gsm carriers are locked to the carrier, so you have to unlock the phone before you can put it on a different carrier Sep 19 15:40:11 loke_: does that help? Sep 19 15:41:43 ooh Sep 19 15:41:55 so you're saying that there is an exclusivity deal for the Dream? Sep 19 15:42:35 as far as I know, Google has an exclusive deal with T-Mobile for the Dream(I assume we're talking about the same phone, htc slider running android) Sep 19 15:42:45 summatusmentis: ya Sep 19 15:42:51 Now, the dream may not be carrier locked, but I'd be willing to bed that it is Sep 19 15:42:57 bet* Sep 19 15:43:14 summatusmentis: although, there was an exclusivity deal for the Iphone too, but that didn't prevent them from being sold all over the place Sep 19 15:43:33 the exclusivity deal really only holds for the US Sep 19 15:43:40 oh Sep 19 15:44:01 and in the US, carriers are allowed to lock to their network, whereas in France, for instance, they don't allow locked handsets to be sold Sep 19 15:44:29 on top of all of that, customers get charged ~$200 to break their contract, and go to another carrier Sep 19 15:44:47 most phones (except the Iphone) is available off-the-shelf without any operator lock though... Unless HTC signed a worldwide exclusiverty deal (sounds stupid, but what do I know) then what is to prevent anyone from importing the off-the-shelf units and selling in the us? Sep 19 15:44:49 hopefully we can outright buy the phone Sep 19 15:45:13 Hey guys I have a question regarding "Driving Directions" on verssion 0.9 Sep 19 15:45:37 I believe that here, it's not legal to sell operator-locked phones... given the fact that the iphone isn't locked when sold here Sep 19 15:45:51 anyone thought about porting a java gameboy/snes emulator Sep 19 15:45:54 I haven't actually checked the regulation though Sep 19 15:45:54 ? Sep 19 15:45:58 loke_: there's nothing really stopping anyone from importing off-the-shelf units, unless there's an exclusivity contract in place, then I could see T-Mobile doing everything in their power to get taht person shut down Sep 19 15:46:03 Terdhex: they're not supported anymore...and I think it's against the terms of google maps Sep 19 15:46:11 summatusmentis: how would they do that? Sep 19 15:46:37 i built a NES emulator for my IPOD :) (iPod linux) Sep 19 15:46:38 summatusmentis: are there laws agaist side-importing in the us? Sep 19 15:46:52 not that I'm aware of Sep 19 15:47:24 T-Mobile does technically have an exclusivity contract (I think) on the dream, so they'd be royally pissed if someone else were selling them Sep 19 15:47:39 probably through the court system, I'm not quite sure how it'd work Sep 19 15:47:41 summatusmentis: yeah, pissed... but could they stop it? Sep 19 15:47:45 ah ok Sep 19 15:47:48 they could sue Sep 19 15:48:22 the other option, sometimes, as zhobbs pointed out, is to buy the phone outright, thereby getting rid of the contract issue Sep 19 15:48:45 although, I _think_ phones are still generally locked when you do that Sep 19 15:49:07 summatusmentis: but that would be US... Sep 19 15:49:14 yes Sep 19 15:49:51 summatusmentis: bascially, the only thing that worries me is that they signed some kind of world-wide exclusivety contract... although I somehow doubt a taiwanese company woudld do that? Sep 19 15:50:13 loke_: I've never heard of a world wide exclusivity contract Sep 19 15:50:22 mostly because there are different carriers all over the world Sep 19 15:50:36 well, that's good then Sep 19 15:50:44 that means unlocked off-the-shelf access for me :-) Sep 19 15:50:55 for instance, Apply has exclusivity contracts with different carriers in different parts of the world, but AT&T doesn't have the worldwide exclusive contract Sep 19 15:51:08 loke_: assuming it gets launched world-wide Sep 19 15:51:19 it's also possible it only gets launched in the US Sep 19 15:51:27 summatusmentis: sounds illogical Sep 19 15:51:37 it's a UMTS phone, works everywhere Sep 19 15:51:50 doesn't mean it'll get launched everywhere Sep 19 15:51:51 made by a taiwanese company that has a HUGE prescence in asia Sep 19 15:52:19 made specifically for a US company Sep 19 15:52:33 just sounds weird they'd shut themselves out of a major part of their market Sep 19 15:52:51 I'm not saying they will, but Apple did, at least for the first iteration Sep 19 15:53:23 yes, but apple is a different kind of company... they have an agenda that is more than just producing a good phone Sep 19 15:53:37 HTC has nothing to gain by not sell to anyone, yes? Sep 19 15:53:51 right, because Google isn't looking to figure out a way to target ads at all android users :) Sep 19 15:54:57 summatusmentis: well true, but google is not the one who has anything to gain by limiting access either. the only one who could possibly gain the is US carrier... So if it's only available there, then it's the carrier that made it happen Sep 19 15:55:07 loke_: well, yes, but the device was explicitly designed to be an android device, so I assume google said they'd 'buy' the devices, and then take on responsibility for selling them Sep 19 15:55:25 the carriers have huge amounts of control over the system in the US Sep 19 15:55:28 summatusmentis: really? Sep 19 15:55:39 yes Sep 19 15:55:44 summatusmentis: In the us, yes. But I'm talking about the rest of the world Sep 19 15:55:50 T-Mobile maybe not as much Sep 19 15:56:01 I do agree that we can be reasonably certain it'll be heavily locked-down in the us Sep 19 15:56:28 right, and it wouldn't surprise me, at least at first, if it were only available in the US Sep 19 15:56:29 (maybe even disabled BT tranfer that I heard about happen to some other phones... not that was true ridiculousness) Sep 19 15:56:55 loke_: that's totally true, generally more on Verizon, but also the iPhone Sep 19 15:57:10 disabling bt means you have to buy ringtones from the carrier Sep 19 15:57:11 loke_ are u from france? Sep 19 15:57:15 and they get to charge you data! Sep 19 15:57:42 loke_ :are u from france? Sep 19 15:57:59 Oh btw... The story is that apple is preventing voip apps on ihphone because of the carriers... Now, I'm running skype voice (Fring) on my Nokia and it works fine with my unlimited data plan... If I take my phone to the us, put in a SIM card for a US carrier with unlimited data plane... Wouldn't it work? Sep 19 15:58:03 bravvve: Singapore Sep 19 15:58:14 (well, not originally from Singapore, but I live here) Sep 19 15:58:25 loke_:ok Sep 19 15:58:35 loke_: it'll work, but it's like that the unlimited data plan is capped at 5G Sep 19 15:58:41 oh Sep 19 15:58:42 they can't actually stop an app from working Sep 19 15:58:44 i am looking forward to getting a googlephone Sep 19 15:58:56 wastrel: you're everywhere Sep 19 15:58:58 capped? that's not really unlimited, is it? Sep 19 15:59:01 silence Sep 19 15:59:10 loke_: no, it's not, but they can say it is Sep 19 15:59:14 hah. ok Sep 19 15:59:20 I have trye unlimited here Sep 19 15:59:22 true Sep 19 16:00:05 loke_: you hear about voip apps being blocked by the carriers, that's the carriers exerting their control. AT&T told apple "no voip apps", and apple had to oblige, or not get a deal with AT&T Sep 19 16:00:15 the US infrastructure is horrible when compared to other parts of the world Sep 19 16:00:17 and that subscription also gives me free WLAN access at high speed (otherwise you get slow speed), and the WLAN hotspots are liteally everywhere Sep 19 16:01:08 AT&T and T-Mobile do that sort of thing here Sep 19 16:01:14 but cap their unlimited data plans Sep 19 16:01:17 oh Sep 19 16:01:27 and I heard about... was it comcast? Sep 19 16:01:36 they limited to some ridiculously low amount? Sep 19 16:01:52 comcast is an ISP, and yeah, they're capping it too, but FCC told them they couldn't Sep 19 16:01:57 now it's going to be appealed Sep 19 16:02:41 Hey guys... can anyone help me with a "driving directions" application I was implementing on m5 and now I'm trying to port to 0.9 Sep 19 16:03:23 summatusmentis: ok... sounds like the network situation in the US is pretty sad though Sep 19 16:04:52 loke_: the network situation derived from the telephone situation. We used to have a huge monopoly in the telecoms, until it was broken up. Many of those companies are not cell providers or ISPs, and are all about control, and care very little about their customers (beyond locking the customers into their network, and then giving them all these rules they have to follow) Sep 19 16:05:17 hmm... so it's not regulated at all? Sep 19 16:05:40 not really Sep 19 16:06:05 here they also try to lock you into long-term contracts, but they do that by giving lots of perks if you choose to sign up... for example, sign up for a 3-year contract with the ISP for broadband and they'll give you a macbook air Sep 19 16:06:09 for exaxmple Sep 19 16:06:15 we're all about laissez-faire here, until things start collapsing, then we give bail-outs Sep 19 16:07:01 taxation and tight regulation or the alternative. no one is right, no one knows anything. Sep 19 16:07:02 loke_: we don't have anything that extreme. Sign-up for a two year contract for your phone, and you get a phone that still costs $300!! Sep 19 16:07:18 (which is better than $500, but still) Sep 19 16:07:26 and people do that? Sep 19 16:07:31 all the time Sep 19 16:07:39 I can understand the macbook air thing... I might have done it myself if I didn't already have one :-) Sep 19 16:07:53 that is, most people don't buy PDA phones, so you can get phones for $50, or whatever Sep 19 16:07:54 but saving 200 USD off a phone to be in the clutches for 2 years? no thanks Sep 19 16:08:07 but the phones without the contract are like $200 Sep 19 16:08:14 yes? Sep 19 16:08:22 not all Sep 19 16:08:28 200 USD off a phone, and then it's locked to the network Sep 19 16:08:33 there are lots of simpler phones that are like 50 USD without a contract Sep 19 16:08:57 those are generally offered free with a contract Sep 19 16:09:05 or not available in the US Sep 19 16:09:05 summatusmentis: here you sign for a 2-year contract for example, they give you a really high-end phone for basically free and the phone is never locked :-) Sep 19 16:09:34 no, we Americans like having things forcibly shoved up our rear-ends, apparently Sep 19 16:10:14 There is a whole business around selling your phone after singing up for a contract. The unlocked, expensive, phone can now be sold slightly less than over-the-counter price at smaller stores Sep 19 16:10:48 I do believe you can just walk in to a store here and buy an unlocked iphone Sep 19 16:11:01 that would surprise me Sep 19 16:11:23 summatusmentis: not really. read above Sep 19 16:11:38 but then the concept of free high-end phones is foreign to me Sep 19 16:12:01 they actually came with a contract, but the buyer sold it off at a profit (if you're about to renew anyway, you take the cheap phone and sell it) Sep 19 16:12:33 sure Sep 19 16:12:42 you can't go into the big retail stores to get those phones of course, but you can get it in the smaller stores. thanks to this they even give you the warranty card and everything Sep 19 16:13:04 I'm pretty sure my E61 I bought a couple of years ago was sold like that Sep 19 16:13:20 when it was brand new, it was sold out in all the major retailer stores, but the smaller ones had it :-) Sep 19 16:13:56 I wish the US were more like that Sep 19 16:14:02 and that it had better gsm proliferation Sep 19 16:15:01 android phone only to be released (on 29th) in the US of A? Sep 19 16:15:25 I'm not sure if it'll be released worldwide or not Sep 19 16:15:47 erus`: we'll know then, I guess :-) Sep 19 16:15:58 summatusmentis: well yeah, there are some good things about this place Sep 19 16:16:15 also, if McCain wins the election, I'm leaving Sep 19 16:16:17 (other things, not so much. cars are in-fucking-sanely expensive for example) Sep 19 16:16:31 summatusmentis: why don't you leave now? :-) Sep 19 16:16:38 I left my sucky old country Sep 19 16:16:48 I'm going to school for cheap, and I'm hoping Obama wins Sep 19 16:18:30 summatusmentis: I'm hoping the same Sep 19 16:18:49 the prospect of the other guy winning frankly scares me Sep 19 16:19:10 me too, I'm going to Costa Rica if he wins Sep 19 16:19:18 or someplace Sep 19 16:19:55 summatusmentis: come here :-) nice weather, excellent food, and the world;s safest country Sep 19 16:20:04 where is here? Sep 19 16:20:18 (of course, all countries have bad sides. don't let anyone tell you otherwise) Sep 19 16:20:40 http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/places/images/photos/photo_lg_singapore_cntry.jpg Sep 19 16:21:07 oh, singapore, you said that Sep 19 16:21:43 Singapore is in Malaysia right? Sep 19 16:21:48 ummmm Sep 19 16:21:53 SIngapore is a country, dude :-) Sep 19 16:22:13 * summatusmentis head desk Sep 19 16:22:46 it's right next to malaysia though, and you can be somewhat excused because for a while in the 50's it actually was part of malaysia Sep 19 16:23:02 Why is Singapore very safe? Sep 19 16:23:10 on the tip of malaysia right? Sep 19 16:23:16 summatusmentis: yep Sep 19 16:23:31 ok, for some reason I thought it was just a city Sep 19 16:23:44 dmoffett_: good question... It can't be just the policing, since many other countries does that too, and they still have lots of violence and crime Sep 19 16:23:48 summatusmentis: it is Sep 19 16:24:10 singapore is great for startups. Sep 19 16:24:10 haha, oh Sep 19 16:24:14 Are most people weathly? Sep 19 16:24:24 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=sv&geocode=&q=singapore&ie=UTF8&ll=1.353252,103.798828&spn=0.492186,0.353622&t=h&z=11 Sep 19 16:24:30 that's the entire country Sep 19 16:24:32 yeah, I'm looking at it now Sep 19 16:24:46 dmoffett_: well, no Sep 19 16:24:49 what language do they speak there? Sep 19 16:25:11 dmoffett_: but there is not much real "poverty". For example, you don't see homeless people Sep 19 16:25:22 summatusmentis: English is the main language Sep 19 16:25:37 summatusmentis: but Chinese is widely spoken, as is Malay and Tamil Sep 19 16:25:41 do they arrest all the homeless people? I've definitely heard of cities doing that here Sep 19 16:25:58 Seems like remember a public beating for vandalism. Which the guy deserved imo. Sep 19 16:25:59 summatusmentis: well, if they did, where would they put them? :-) Sep 19 16:26:14 in jail for a while Sep 19 16:26:18 dmoffett_: that's true, and he did deserve it. That doesn't mean I agree with capital punishment htough Sep 19 16:26:24 summatusmentis: and then? Sep 19 16:26:42 or some cities will schlep their homeless people over the state border and give them $50 Sep 19 16:26:48 summatusmentis: they do have shelters and projects for supporting homeless people and such Sep 19 16:26:53 sure Sep 19 16:27:10 summatusmentis: they can't really do that here, since the country is so small and quite crowded Sep 19 16:27:17 Are personal freedoms protected in Singapore? Sep 19 16:27:31 dmoffett_: what freedoms are that? Sep 19 16:27:45 Right to privacy etc. Sep 19 16:27:55 dmoffett_: not really, no Sep 19 16:28:11 Which are I might point out are eroding in the US. Sep 19 16:29:12 and will continue until morale improves Sep 19 16:29:20 dmoffett_: well, the thing is, that if people have it well off and are happy, then it's much easier for the government to keep control Sep 19 16:30:09 Imagine if crime suddenly came down to singapore levels in the US... don't you think that much less people would complain about the domestic spying for example? Sep 19 16:30:13 man that ape is attractive Sep 19 16:30:27 that, of course, doesn't mean that domestic spying helps one bit to fight crime :-) Sep 19 16:31:34 being able to walk anywhere you want at any time without having to worry is really quite nice Sep 19 16:31:38 Hard to say since there are so many variables but it seems that harsh punishment deters crime. Sep 19 16:31:57 dmoffett_: it deters certain crime... Sep 19 16:32:36 loke_: compared to the US what's cost of living like?> Sep 19 16:32:48 dmoffett_: however, it also escalates violence levels... For example, in states in the us that has the three-strikes rule, murder rates go up since now a two-striker are more likely to kill hiss robbery-victim for example to get rid of the witness Sep 19 16:33:20 unix_infidel: pretty cheap, except for housing, which is expensive Sep 19 16:33:42 unix_infidel: mainly because land is scarce Sep 19 16:34:07 a 3 bedrrom condo outside the main city will cost you around 1 million SGD and up Sep 19 16:34:28 a house will run you at least 2 million Sep 19 16:35:17 I really want to buy a house with a garden, but the likelyhood of me ever being able to afford one is slim to none... I'll probably just buy a house in malaysia when I retire :-) Sep 19 16:38:38 Imagine if crime suddenly came down to singapore levels in the US... don't you think that much less people would complain about the domestic spying for example? <---- NO!!!!!!! Sep 19 16:39:38 zhobbs: well I believe they did... pampered people get less critisizing Sep 19 16:39:44 did=would Sep 19 16:39:48 "people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" -Thomas Jefferson Sep 19 16:41:17 zhobbs: yep. true Sep 19 16:42:23 but it'll probably happen....the US is slowly going to be like the UK as far as privacy goes Sep 19 16:42:37 Take a close look at how Rome came to have emperors, by slowly eroding personal freedoms. Sep 19 16:42:57 zhobbs: bit what I'm sayin gis not actually directly related. I'm not say people feel they need the reductions in freedom to get security... I'm saying that secure people feel less need to even think about it. Sep 19 16:43:06 well yeah. I think it's pretty clear where the us is heading Sep 19 16:43:40 Jefferson also had a quote a about a good revolution every once in a while. Sep 19 16:43:44 historically, I think it's pretty rare to see a couple giving out MORE freedoms, except through some kind of uphevil Sep 19 16:44:06 couple=country Sep 19 16:44:10 damn I spell like shit :-) Sep 19 16:44:35 yeah, governments usually don't give out more freedom, and the writers of the us constitution realized that, so they tried to build in as much as possible Sep 19 16:45:17 Wait, you did actually get some freedoms back after the communist scares in the... hmm... was it 50's or 60's? Sep 19 16:45:32 McKarty? Sep 19 16:45:38 McCarthy Sep 19 16:45:43 close enough :-) Sep 19 16:45:48 haha Sep 19 16:45:49 yeah, and after 9/11 Sep 19 16:45:51 "Every generation needs a new revolution." Thomas Jefferson Sep 19 16:46:09 we didn't get any freedoms back after 9/11 ? Sep 19 16:46:25 summatusmentis: sorry, misread that... Sep 19 16:46:29 or, they started taking them away after 9/11 Sep 19 16:46:32 summatusmentis: we gave freedoms up Sep 19 16:46:35 right Sep 19 16:47:13 dmoffett_: I'm all for a type of revolution, but then they'll just lock me up and send me to gitmo Sep 19 16:47:20 freedom is spelled "google phone" Sep 19 16:47:24 I'm sure you heard about the RNC protests Sep 19 16:47:43 nope Sep 19 16:47:47 never heard Sep 19 16:48:22 read through http://www.minnesotaindependent.com/category/rnc Sep 19 16:48:51 oh "unlawful assembly" Sep 19 16:48:57 that's a very nice blanket law Sep 19 16:49:01 they have it here too... Sep 19 16:49:14 generic law that applies to any gorup of people more than 7 people I think Sep 19 16:49:25 and rioting, and arresting journalists, excessive force, pre-emptive raids Sep 19 16:49:29 it was like a police state Sep 19 17:27:05 http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/19/t-mobile-g1-or-whatever-its-called-takes-in-some-fresh-air/ Sep 19 17:27:05 ? Sep 19 17:53:15 I'm confused. Sep 19 17:53:24 the blogger in that link says the release date is 9/23 Sep 19 17:53:42 the 9/23 was supposed to be the unveiling, right, but not necessarily general availability? Sep 19 17:54:00 Or is it really going to be available for purchase at my local tmobile on 9/23? Sep 19 18:01:17 yeah its the unveiling. Sep 19 18:01:18 afaik Sep 19 18:01:26 i think he just miss understood the reports. Sep 19 18:01:28 but ionno Sep 19 18:54:19 km-: its rediculous. the annoucement has been pre-announced Sep 19 18:55:34 get ready for when we tell you to get ready for this other date! Sep 19 18:56:45 haha, yeah, really. Sep 19 18:56:52 I'm freaking vibrating I'm so excited about it Sep 19 18:56:58 lol Sep 19 18:57:14 I'm afraid it wont compare to my curve Sep 19 18:57:22 the 'G1' is kind of dorky looking. Sep 19 18:57:30 but my wife said I could have the curve back and she'd take the G1 if I just hated it Sep 19 18:57:34 comared to iphone and xperia Sep 19 18:58:22 im hoping i can get one with less than the 2-year deal. (i'll pay more for the phone) Sep 19 18:58:57 donomo: who knows about android right now? mostly dorks... so it appeals to the mass it is meant for, at least until it gets wildly popular Sep 19 18:59:07 sitting down and seriously looking at the sdk. Sep 19 18:59:14 not as easy as I thought it was going to be :-P Sep 19 19:00:07 Dougie187: i think HTC is not giving 100% here. the last couple HTC phones are awesome looking. this looks like a design from a few year ago. Sep 19 19:00:22 that pasty white thing on engadget isn't really what it will look like right? Sep 19 19:00:37 i think its pretty cool looking. Sep 19 19:00:37 Dougie187: as a Neo Freerunner owner, i know what you mean about the geek target market Sep 19 19:00:45 yeah. even if you look at htc button designs they're much better than that preview thing Sep 19 19:01:14 I'm getting the black one Sep 19 19:01:18 the white one is not particularly flattering Sep 19 19:01:22 but the black will be ok. Sep 19 19:01:26 http://www.techdigest.tv/htc-diamond-apple-iphone.jpg Sep 19 19:01:42 the diamond is sexy. the G1 is kind of fisher-price, but oh well. Sep 19 19:01:48 im getting one no matter what Sep 19 19:02:28 i think the g1 looks cool, especially if it comes in different colors. Sep 19 19:02:35 its nice and simple Sep 19 19:02:49 im looking forward to the keyboard and finding out for sure if it has GPS Sep 19 19:03:47