**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 21 02:59:57 2008
Sep 21 03:27:54 <gambler> oops just created fork bomb
Sep 21 03:37:35 <unix_infidel> jasonlee: what else would we be doing
Sep 21 03:37:36 <unix_infidel> ?
Sep 21 03:38:19 <mickrobk> umdk1d3: all done :?
Sep 21 04:30:52 <umdk1d3> yay no more netsplit
Sep 21 04:31:12 <umdk1d3> mickrobk: still a long way to go
Sep 21 04:31:15 <umdk1d3> ive got the protocol figured out
Sep 21 04:31:22 <umdk1d3> now ive gotta write a sexy android frontend  ;)
Sep 21 04:31:30 <umdk1d3> and ive got some ideas that will kick the butt of the apple remote  ;)
Sep 21 04:31:33 <umdk1d3> beat em at theri own game lol
Sep 21 04:52:35 <gambler> umdk1d3, check this out too http://www.jsharkey.org/blog/2008/08/20/amarok-14-remote-in-android-using-dcoppython/
Sep 21 04:52:58 <gambler> while your at it plz make it so I can hack your code to work with XBMC and MCE
Sep 21 04:55:12 <umdk1d3> has anyone played with the protocols XBMC/MCE use under the hood?
Sep 21 04:55:17 <umdk1d3> do they offer tcp/ip remote control?
Sep 21 04:56:39 <gambler> MCE uses a weird USB driver
Sep 21 04:56:44 <umdk1d3> :/
Sep 21 04:56:54 <gambler> i think its pretty extendable platform toh
Sep 21 04:57:29 <umdk1d3> the way its looking, this app will be tied pretty tightly to itunes
Sep 21 04:57:35 <umdk1d3> because of the protocol and structure
Sep 21 04:57:43 <umdk1d3> and abstracting everything might be a project for later
Sep 21 04:57:44 <umdk1d3> imho
Sep 21 04:58:00 <gambler> ah yep...figured as much
Sep 21 04:58:01 <umdk1d3> at this point we are only a few weeks away from real devices, so its crunch time
Sep 21 05:53:06 <meoblast001> so what was chromes incognite mode made for?
Sep 21 05:53:07 <meoblast001> O_o
Sep 21 05:53:25 <Kraln> http://www.kraln.com/demo.swf
Sep 21 05:53:35 <Kraln> :-)
Sep 21 05:54:23 <meoblast001> Kraln: nice
Sep 21 05:54:30 <plusminus_> hm the 'face' acts pretty passive ^^
Sep 21 05:55:18 <plusminus_> but i like the background-animation! looks really space-alike
Sep 21 05:55:19 <Kraln> he's just a placeholder to show that my sprites work =p
Sep 21 05:55:28 <Kraln> it looks tons better at 60fps :-D
Sep 21 05:55:42 <plusminus_> 60fps in the emulator?
Sep 21 05:55:54 <Kraln> yuh
Sep 21 05:56:02 <plusminus_> hm nice
Sep 21 06:16:12 <summatusmentis> I downloaded the sdk, is there a way to get the emulator to run so I can play with Android without writning a program?
Sep 21 06:19:14 <unix_infidel> summatusmentis: just launch emulator.exe
Sep 21 06:20:27 <summatusmentis> oh... :)
Sep 21 06:20:41 <plusminus_> cya guys
Sep 21 06:38:18 <umdk1d3> gah
Sep 21 06:38:34 <umdk1d3> anybody around with itunes running on two computers?
Sep 21 06:38:34 <summatusmentis> umdk1d3: gah?
Sep 21 06:38:50 <umdk1d3> and would they be willing to send a packet capture of "sharing" an mp3 between them?
Sep 21 06:39:12 <umdk1d3> this would be kick butt if we could get it working
Sep 21 06:39:19 <summatusmentis> none of my housemates have sharing setup :)
Sep 21 06:39:20 <umdk1d3> double tap on the album cover to download onto your android phone  =D
Sep 21 06:39:41 <umdk1d3> and its there in the older versions of DAAP
Sep 21 06:39:48 <umdk1d3> but i cant seem to make it work
Sep 21 06:39:55 <umdk1d3> *streaming mp3s
Sep 21 06:40:10 <umdk1d3> Request: daap://server/databases/<dbid>/items/<songid>.mp3?session-id=session
Sep 21 06:40:17 <summatusmentis> I could setup iTunes in a vm if you want
Sep 21 06:40:56 <umdk1d3> if youve got the time that would be awesome
Sep 21 06:41:05 <umdk1d3> because i only have one windows vm right now
Sep 21 06:41:19 <umdk1d3> and it only allows one bridge to local network
Sep 21 06:41:35 <umdk1d3> or maybe i could do a local network in virtualbox
Sep 21 06:41:47 <umdk1d3> i havent had a "windows" computer in years lol
Sep 21 06:41:53 <summatusmentis> I'm running OS X, so I can network to a windows vm, yes?
Sep 21 06:42:08 <umdk1d3> hmm maybe
Sep 21 06:42:12 <umdk1d3> i havent played with osx before
Sep 21 06:42:19 <umdk1d3> what kind of vm?
Sep 21 06:42:33 <summatusmentis> VMWare
Sep 21 06:42:46 <umdk1d3> it would probably work
Sep 21 06:42:51 <umdk1d3> worth a shot if youre bored tonight  ;)
Sep 21 06:42:56 <umdk1d3> otherwise i can prolly figure something out
Sep 21 06:42:56 <summatusmentis> alright, sharing which way?
Sep 21 06:43:03 <umdk1d3> it shouldnt matter
Sep 21 06:43:08 <summatusmentis> actually, I can only share it one way :)
Sep 21 06:43:09 <umdk1d3> as long as the itunes versions are newer
Sep 21 06:43:11 <umdk1d3> oh?
Sep 21 06:43:32 <summatusmentis> well, there's no music in the windows machine
Sep 21 06:43:32 <umdk1d3> prolly run wireshark in the vm, unless you have a packet capture for osx
Sep 21 06:43:35 <umdk1d3> oh lol
Sep 21 06:43:40 <summatusmentis> yeah, they'll both be version 8 iTunes
Sep 21 06:43:56 <umdk1d3> okay cool   :)
Sep 21 06:44:06 <umdk1d3> i know it wont work with DRM'ed stuff, but thats by design
Sep 21 06:44:10 <summatusmentis> I've got wireshark for OS X
Sep 21 06:44:14 <summatusmentis> and I don't do DRM
Sep 21 06:44:36 <summatusmentis> gonna have to download iTunes for windows, give me a few minutes
Sep 21 06:44:47 <umdk1d3> it keeps giving me HTTP 400 Bad Request when im following the older DAAP protocol guide
Sep 21 06:45:10 <umdk1d3> although im using the Remote's session-id instead of creating a new session id for sharing
Sep 21 06:45:25 * umdk1d3 wonders if its a session id problem
Sep 21 06:45:32 <umdk1d3> in either case, a packet dump would tell us  :)
Sep 21 06:47:41 <summatusmentis> kk, let me finish downloading iTunes
Sep 21 06:49:04 <umdk1d3> yea it appears that a "normal" session-id is still giving me HTTP 400
Sep 21 06:54:57 * umdk1d3 drinks more coffee
Sep 21 06:55:47 <summatusmentis> ok, iTunes downloaded, installing now
Sep 21 06:59:19 <summatusmentis> do you want a password set for sharing?
Sep 21 06:59:30 <umdk1d3> lets leave a password off for now
Sep 21 06:59:35 <umdk1d3> i think the auth is the same as before
Sep 21 06:59:36 <summatusmentis> ok
Sep 21 06:59:45 <umdk1d3> base64-encoded http header iirc
Sep 21 07:01:37 <summatusmentis> what do you want me to do, open a sharing, and play a song?
Sep 21 07:01:49 <umdk1d3> yea, if thats how it works
Sep 21 07:01:57 <umdk1d3> idk what it looks like
Sep 21 07:02:01 <umdk1d3> but just start a stream playing
Sep 21 07:02:03 <umdk1d3> should be enough
Sep 21 07:02:10 <umdk1d3> we dont need all the packets of the song
Sep 21 07:02:20 <umdk1d3> only like the first few seconds are prolly enough
Sep 21 07:02:29 <summatusmentis> right, but a stream between computers, not a web stream
Sep 21 07:02:40 <umdk1d3> oh deffy between two computers
Sep 21 07:02:46 <umdk1d3> (there are web streams?  o.o lol)
Sep 21 07:03:34 <summatusmentis> yeah, for like online radio stations, etc.
Sep 21 07:03:49 <umdk1d3> yea we want one from the shared library on another itunes
Sep 21 07:03:55 <summatusmentis> ok
Sep 21 07:11:07 <summatusmentis> umdk1d3: where should I send this?
Sep 21 07:11:15 <umdk1d3> how big is it?
Sep 21 07:11:25 <umdk1d3> if you have a dumpsite somwhere, or rapidshare
Sep 21 07:11:42 <summatusmentis> 1.7 MB
Sep 21 07:11:51 <umdk1d3> either way, whatever works best for you
Sep 21 07:16:24 <summatusmentis> umdk1d3: http://summatusmentis.tproa.net/itunes_dump.pcap
Sep 21 07:16:30 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 21 07:17:04 <summatusmentis> there's a lot of other traffic there, sorry
Sep 21 07:17:13 <summatusmentis> it was everything I was doing at the time
Sep 21 07:17:34 <umdk1d3> eh its okay
Sep 21 07:17:38 <umdk1d3> ill dig through it
Sep 21 07:17:42 <umdk1d3> thanks btw  ^.^
Sep 21 07:17:45 <summatusmentis> cool, hope this helps
Sep 21 07:17:58 <umdk1d3> yea i was kinda stuck without having a second windows box
Sep 21 07:18:10 <summatusmentis> that's reasonable
Sep 21 07:18:42 <summatusmentis> alright, I'm sleeping now, enjoy your packet dump :)
Sep 21 07:27:22 <umdk1d3> aha
Sep 21 07:27:23 <umdk1d3> "The Client-DAAP-Validation header is the primary way an iTunes server checks to see if the current client attempt looks like legitimate Apple software."
Sep 21 07:40:38 <umdk1d3> bah
Sep 21 07:40:53 <umdk1d3> it appears that even to talk about non-drm'ed stuff they do a two-way handshake
Sep 21 07:41:04 <umdk1d3> they exchange fairplay certificates
Sep 21 07:42:20 <umdk1d3> ouch its an ugly mess :(
Sep 21 07:42:35 <umdk1d3> they clearly have beefed up security around that
Sep 21 10:22:28 <snadge> is there any more news about htc dream and tmobile?
Sep 21 15:19:17 <kristian-m> Can you use the android widgetset from C++?
Sep 21 15:28:38 <jasta> kristian-m: no.
Sep 21 15:40:20 <kristian-m> But I can access the Framebuffer, right?
Sep 21 15:41:43 <kristian-m> jasta And you could interface a java adapter from C++?
Sep 21 15:44:37 <jasta> yes and no
Sep 21 15:45:48 <jasta> you could wrap the entire UI framework (which is absolutely massive), but that wouldn't be feasible to do until source is released as you don't know how to make those calls through dalvik from C
Sep 21 15:46:21 <jasta> but the greater challenge i'd say would be distribution and invocation of your application.  it would be a huge project to integrate this correctly
Sep 21 15:46:32 <jasta> work that google is certainly not going to do in the near future
Sep 21 15:47:10 <jasta> i would find such a project to be a foolish waste of time even.  if you need to write portions of your project in C/C++, use JNI from Java, but don't wrap the entire Java framework in C just because you prefer the language.
Sep 21 15:48:16 <kristian-m> hmm, you'd have to interface the Dalvik based API somehow, and build a toolchain for multiple architectures...
Sep 21 15:48:37 <kristian-m> jasta well it would help using other programming langages as wel
Sep 21 15:48:57 <kristian-m> there is still no Python support, right?
Sep 21 15:49:21 * kristian-m is curious today ;-)
Sep 21 15:54:30 <kristian-m> Does Dalvik have any marchaling functionality?
Sep 21 19:39:37 <jasta> godo to be back home :)
Sep 21 19:47:07 <summatusmentis> umdk1d3: did that dump help at all?
Sep 21 22:56:19 <umdk1d3> hell yea this android gui is looking awesome  ^.^
Sep 21 22:56:47 <summatusmentis> umdk1d3: which one? the one in the sdk?
Sep 21 22:56:54 <summatusmentis> and did that dump help at all?
Sep 21 22:57:29 <umdk1d3> summatusmentis: yea the dump did help me find out that theyve really got that locked down now  :/
Sep 21 22:57:40 <umdk1d3> there is a certificate exchange between the two itunes
Sep 21 22:57:44 <summatusmentis> that's what I was sort of worried about
Sep 21 22:57:49 <umdk1d3> even though it was drm-free
Sep 21 22:58:08 <umdk1d3> and there is some super long hash that goes in the http headers when requesting the stream
Sep 21 22:58:11 <summatusmentis> so you'd have to find the algo for the certificate creation, etc.
Sep 21 22:58:34 <umdk1d3> creation shouldnt be too hard, might do a replay attack
Sep 21 22:58:41 <umdk1d3> however, i wonder if it has a short expiration time, like one day
Sep 21 22:59:20 <umdk1d3> also this thing needs a cool name  ;)
Sep 21 22:59:26 <umdk1d3> *itunes remote control
Sep 21 23:00:11 <summatusmentis> remote control vs. remote streaming is different
Sep 21 23:00:59 <ulmen> youTunes
Sep 21 23:01:46 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 21 23:01:49 <umdk1d3> hmm
Sep 22 02:43:27 <maek> what "set" of eclipse to I want to use for andriod dev? Eclipse IDE for Java Developers (84 MB). thanks.
Sep 22 02:43:55 <summatusmentis> is that a question?
Sep 22 02:44:17 <maek> yeah, sorry for the off phrasing.
Sep 22 02:48:46 <summatusmentis> I downloaded Eclipse IDE for Java Developers
Sep 22 02:48:53 <summatusmentis> the other one is for JEE developers
Sep 22 02:49:06 <maek> thanks
Sep 22 02:49:09 <maek> this is all knew to me
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 22 02:59:57 2008