**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 23 02:59:58 2008
Sep 23 03:05:19 <taaz> jasta: i live in EDT and might do that :)
Sep 23 03:14:40 <umdk1d3> lol i cant stand the suspense tho  :P
Sep 23 03:15:00 <umdk1d3> HELL YEA
Sep 23 03:15:05 <umdk1d3> now thats what IM talking 'bout
Sep 23 03:15:06 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 23 03:15:12 <umdk1d3> i have an AWESOME auto-paging adapter
Sep 23 03:15:20 <jasta> really?
Sep 23 03:15:27 <umdk1d3> when you "hit" the bottom of a list, it fetches the next "page" of results
Sep 23 03:15:31 <umdk1d3> and seamlessly adds them in
Sep 23 03:15:32 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 23 03:15:42 <jasta> how does it handle long network delays?
Sep 23 03:15:52 <umdk1d3> the fetch is done in a thread
Sep 23 03:15:58 <umdk1d3> so the user sits there at the bottom til more loads
Sep 23 03:16:01 <jasta> i mean, is there any feedback?
Sep 23 03:16:11 <umdk1d3> im using a addFooterView to put a nice spinner view at the bottom of the list
Sep 23 03:16:13 <jasta> there should really be feedback that more results are expected and fetching
Sep 23 03:16:17 <jasta> ahh yes, nice :)
Sep 23 03:16:20 <umdk1d3> and when weve loaded them all pages, it hides itself
Sep 23 03:16:42 <jasta> i'm working on lameness at the moment.  working around the miserable MediaPlayer class
Sep 23 03:16:48 <umdk1d3> :(
Sep 23 03:17:01 <umdk1d3> what i cant understand is how its in such poor shape
Sep 23 03:17:05 <jasta> it's so far a 1200 loc work around
Sep 23 03:17:06 <jasta> and counting
Sep 23 03:17:08 <umdk1d3> i mean, they have packetvideo onboard
Sep 23 03:17:17 <umdk1d3> thats *why* they were in the oha
Sep 23 03:17:23 <jasta> apparently packetvideo is a bunch of monkeys
Sep 23 03:17:26 <jasta> can't do anything right
Sep 23 03:17:26 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 03:17:53 <umdk1d3> i mean cmon, it wouldnt be too hard to just patch in opensource codec libs
Sep 23 03:17:54 <taaz> they should fund fluendo to do a proper gstreamer integration with java api
Sep 23 03:17:59 <umdk1d3> however, they need all the licesning stuff i suppose
Sep 23 03:18:10 <umdk1d3> taaz: thats the issue, licensing
Sep 23 03:18:21 <umdk1d3> they cant use opensource media libs because of patent issues, iirc
Sep 23 03:18:23 <jasta> umdk1d3: my work around is probably going to end up around 1800 lines long and that's without seek support
Sep 23 03:18:29 <jasta> with seek support, oh god, ...maybe 2500?
Sep 23 03:18:31 <taaz> fluendo deals with that.  they sell various codecs that are licensed
Sep 23 03:18:34 <umdk1d3> wouch  :/
Sep 23 03:18:42 <jasta> and it's gonna be *slow8
Sep 23 03:18:43 <umdk1d3> taaz: oh interesting, didnt know that
Sep 23 03:18:57 <umdk1d3> jasta: you writing streaming audio?
Sep 23 03:19:27 <jasta> i'm constructing a local http server that intermediates the mediaplayer class to provide caching of streamed content
Sep 23 03:19:39 <jasta> it's atrociously slow, wasteful on I/O and memory
Sep 23 03:19:42 <umdk1d3> ouch
Sep 23 03:19:54 <jasta> but it's the "recommended" work around, and it's a fucking beast to get working
Sep 23 03:19:56 <umdk1d3> why cache tho?
Sep 23 03:20:05 <jasta> seriously?
Sep 23 03:20:08 <umdk1d3> i mean other than for seeking
Sep 23 03:20:12 <jasta> the network is unstable and slow.
Sep 23 03:20:14 <umdk1d3> does youtube cache?
Sep 23 03:20:25 <jasta> five caches permanently.
Sep 23 03:20:32 <umdk1d3> :/
Sep 23 03:20:44 <jasta> each song you listen to permanently caches to disk so network access is not necessary for repeated playback
Sep 23 03:20:44 <umdk1d3> does it cache to the sdcard at least?
Sep 23 03:20:47 <jasta> yes
Sep 23 03:20:58 <umdk1d3> and provide the caches in a meaningful .mp3 format that other players on the system could use?
Sep 23 03:21:04 <jasta> it also preemptively caches the next song
Sep 23 03:21:09 <umdk1d3> ooh
Sep 23 03:21:27 <jasta> which is a whole extra staggering challenge to make work well with this pattern
Sep 23 03:21:35 <jasta> fucking MediaPlayer makes all this so painful you can't even believe it
Sep 23 03:21:36 <umdk1d3> any cache expiration features?  (not-played-since)
Sep 23 03:21:59 <umdk1d3> to help manage disk creep
Sep 23 03:22:13 <jasta> cache expiration is LFU, designed to preserve a minimum percentage free on disk
Sep 23 03:22:21 <umdk1d3> oh sweet  =D
Sep 23 03:22:21 <wastrel> hi hi
Sep 23 03:22:27 <umdk1d3> hey wastrel
Sep 23 03:22:45 * umdk1d3 eats crackers
Sep 23 03:22:56 <jasta> so, deletion of LFU content is triggered when the storage card exceeds a specified percentage of available blocks
Sep 23 03:24:59 <umdk1d3> hmm whats a good restful api that i could use to demonstrate paging
Sep 23 03:25:10 <umdk1d3> restful+json would be best
Sep 23 03:25:56 <muthu_> restlet
Sep 23 03:26:14 <jasta> http://ws.audioscrobbler.com/2.0/?method=library.getartists&user=rj&api_key=b25b959554ed76058ac220b7b2e0a026 -- xml, not json, but...
Sep 23 03:26:37 <jasta> add &page=2, 3, 4, etc.
Sep 23 03:26:47 <umdk1d3> ooh
Sep 23 03:27:02 <philhsmith> has anyone had success starting up and (particularly) tearing down an emulator instance from a build script?
Sep 23 03:27:09 <jasta> but of course, use user=jasta for added awesomeness.
Sep 23 03:27:26 <muthu_> hehe
Sep 23 03:27:43 <umdk1d3> philhsmith: bash scripting?
Sep 23 03:27:56 <jasta> umdk1d3: add some real flare and background fetch those artist images too.
Sep 23 03:28:05 <philhsmith> umdk1d3: bash is fine, ant would be better.
Sep 23 03:28:10 <umdk1d3> jasta: oh for sure
Sep 23 03:28:31 <umdk1d3> philhsmith: hmm not sure about ant.  in bash you might be able to keep track of the launched processid, and kill it later
Sep 23 03:29:30 <philhsmith> umdk1d3: yea.. I was hoping to be able to turn the emulator off from within, or some such...
Sep 23 03:30:06 <philhsmith> there's a 'reboot' available from within the root console, but it doesn't seem to do much (even while watching kernel logs)
Sep 23 03:30:13 <umdk1d3> hmm
Sep 23 03:30:31 <umdk1d3> yea   ./emulator & echo "$pids"  will give you something you could sed and kill later
Sep 23 03:31:08 <umdk1d3> jasta: ive already got a image caching class working  ^.^
Sep 23 03:31:12 <umdk1d3> which will be perfect for album art
Sep 23 03:31:20 <umdk1d3> ive been meaning to write up that example too
Sep 23 03:31:55 <jasta> umdk1d3: this is artist photos, not album art.  for albums, use method=library.getalbums
Sep 23 03:32:10 <jasta> last.fm is too cool ;)
Sep 23 03:32:12 <umdk1d3> ohhhh ic for lastfm
Sep 23 03:32:18 <umdk1d3> <3 lastfm  ^.^
Sep 23 03:32:24 <muthu_> ooh big day
Sep 23 03:32:27 <umdk1d3> ive been scrobbling for years now
Sep 23 03:32:38 <umdk1d3> jasta: i think i have you beat  ;)
Sep 23 03:32:47 <jasta> impossible ;)
Sep 23 03:33:01 <umdk1d3> mmm close, ive got 44k plays
Sep 23 03:33:11 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 23 03:33:12 <umdk1d3> I WIN
Sep 23 03:33:13 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 03:33:34 <jasta> gah :)
Sep 23 03:33:49 <umdk1d3> listening to trance sets has really killed my numbers over the last year tho  :/
Sep 23 03:33:53 <jasta> i cant wait until i get through all this mediaplayer crud and i can start implementing fun features ;)
Sep 23 03:33:57 <jasta> like automatic concert notifications
Sep 23 03:34:07 <umdk1d3> ooh
Sep 23 03:34:17 <jasta> based on your location and top played artists
Sep 23 03:34:24 <jasta> (last.fm is so wonderful)
Sep 23 03:34:33 <muthu_> so five has competitiion now.. gr8
Sep 23 03:34:38 <unix_infidel> jasta: you workin on an app?
Sep 23 03:34:43 <jasta> unix_infidel: yes, five.googlecode.com
Sep 23 03:34:46 <jasta> muthu_: it does?
Sep 23 03:35:01 <muthu_> yeah, umdk1d3
Sep 23 03:35:12 <jasta> no, umdk1d3 is working on another thing.
Sep 23 03:35:14 <umdk1d3> nah nto really
Sep 23 03:35:23 <umdk1d3> im just doing a remote control thing
Sep 23 03:35:29 <muthu_> ohhhh
Sep 23 03:35:32 <umdk1d3> im not even dreaming of touching streaming music from itunes
Sep 23 03:35:35 <umdk1d3> all that fairplay crap  :/
Sep 23 03:35:42 <umdk1d3> even for non-drmed stuff it still adds alot
Sep 23 03:35:54 <muthu_> rite
Sep 23 03:37:45 <jasta> umdk1d3 is, however, contributing a lot of quality code that will make its way into Five ;0
Sep 23 03:37:57 <muthu_> gr8
Sep 23 03:38:06 <jasta> he wrote some gesture example taht i'm definitely going to lift and i will also probably take this paginating adapter code ;)
Sep 23 03:38:16 <muthu_> nice
Sep 23 03:38:20 * jasta is very grateful
Sep 23 03:38:55 <wastrel> hi that phone is being announced tomorrow
Sep 23 03:39:09 <muthu_> yeah
Sep 23 03:40:46 * jasta is in a really good mood the past couple of days
Sep 23 03:40:54 <jasta> i sure needed that vacation :)
Sep 23 03:41:08 <tomgibara> Does anyone know how to accurately measure the amount of (dirty private) memory an app uses?
Sep 23 03:41:31 <tomgibara> Or is all of it accounted for by the heap as reported by DDMS?
Sep 23 03:42:01 <muthu_> jasta take another one ;)
Sep 23 03:42:39 <jasta> tomgibara: ....welll....
Sep 23 03:42:46 <jasta> tomgibara: http://bmaurer.blogspot.com/2006/03/memory-usage-with-smaps.html
Sep 23 03:42:55 <jasta> i stumbled upon that a while ago
Sep 23 03:43:21 <jasta> however, i bet you'd need to build your own android kernel for that support.  not sure, though.
Sep 23 03:43:47 <gdsx> /proc/<pid> should exist, I think (random guess)
Sep 23 03:44:01 <jasta> yes, but smaps may or may not, depending on build
Sep 23 03:44:01 <philhsmith> gdsx: it does
Sep 23 03:44:08 <tomgibara> jasta: Thanks for the pointer
Sep 23 03:44:08 <gdsx> jasta: true
Sep 23 03:45:02 <philhsmith> tomgibara: you might just check the VSIZE off of 'ps' too
Sep 23 03:45:02 <tomgibara> The reason I ask is that even in a fairly trivial app (just a simple Service running) DDMS reports over 1M of heap being allocated
Sep 23 03:45:30 <philhsmith> smaps appears in my (vanilla) /proc/<pid>
Sep 23 03:45:38 <tomgibara> philsmith: thanks, I'll try and give these suggestions a go
Sep 23 03:45:46 <mickrobk> try "adb shell dumpsys meminfo"
Sep 23 03:46:59 <tomgibara> mickrobk: thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to see :)
Sep 23 03:47:08 <mickrobk> cool
Sep 23 03:47:17 <jasta> oh yes, that is a useful little command
Sep 23 03:48:11 <summatusmentis> are there repos for android yet? or something?
Sep 23 03:48:24 <muthu_> apps-for-android in googlecode
Sep 23 03:49:45 <summatusmentis> googlecode? not the sdk
Sep 23 03:49:46 <philhsmith> wow
Sep 23 03:49:54 <philhsmith> dumpsys meminfo is *hot*
Sep 23 03:50:15 <tomgibara> meminfo is pretty depressing reading
Sep 23 03:50:26 <jasta> tomgibara: heavy?
Sep 23 03:51:00 <tomgibara> Yeah, my 'trivial' allocates about 2M of private dirty
Sep 23 03:51:12 <jasta> seriously?  fuck.
Sep 23 03:51:36 <tomgibara> perhaps it's not so trivial? I'll try it with a real trivial...
Sep 23 03:51:42 <jasta> maybe the difference between trivial and non-trivial is not so great, though?
Sep 23 03:52:40 <tomgibara> jasta: That's what I'm worried about
Sep 23 03:52:44 <jasta> your todo list has total 3.2MB priv dirty.
Sep 23 03:53:35 <jasta> and i can make it just grow and gorw by scrolling around...
Sep 23 03:53:53 <tomgibara> I'm writing an app that I just want to be as efficient as possible, and I didn't want the service gobbling up megs of memory every time wakes up
Sep 23 03:54:20 <jasta> its probably not smart to optimize to this level just yet, though.
Sep 23 03:54:34 <jasta> since we don't have any basis for how real equipment is impacted
Sep 23 03:55:00 <jasta> or what sorts of tricks dalvik has
Sep 23 03:55:39 <tomgibara> I would expect that the emulator would be a pretty good guide for Dalvik memory usage
Sep 23 03:55:50 <tomgibara> performance no, but memory usage, yes
Sep 23 03:56:33 <jasta> that's what i meant: we don't know how a real device will be impacted by memory usage.
Sep 23 03:56:54 <jasta> but still yes, if these stats are correct that is concerning
Sep 23 03:58:39 <tomgibara> Well, a new archetypal project created through Eclipse, launched and then 'closed' with the back button reports 1.64MB for me
Sep 23 03:59:42 <tomgibara> ^^(priv dirty): native   dalvik    other    total  --> 408      420      812     1640
Sep 23 04:03:42 <tomgibara> jasta: Tes, if this is representative, then a running a relatively small number of services might have a serious impact on the remaining available memory
Sep 23 04:03:47 <tomgibara> *Yes
Sep 23 04:05:20 <plusminus_> Wrote an OpenStreetMap-Contributor...
Sep 23 04:05:33 <plusminus_> http://www.anddev.org/openstreetmap_android_contributor-t2902.html
Sep 23 04:06:50 <muthu_> plusminus_, wonderful
Sep 23 04:07:00 <plusminus_> thx
Sep 23 04:07:12 <muthu_> man, you are like a non stop coding machine!!
Sep 23 04:07:25 <plusminus_> I hear that often ... :D
Sep 23 04:07:35 <plusminus_> and I even have a social life !!
Sep 23 04:07:41 <muthu_> really? ;)\
Sep 23 04:07:50 <plusminus_> some think thats mutually exclusive ;)
Sep 23 04:07:57 <muthu_> hshs
Sep 23 04:08:01 <muthu_> haha
Sep 23 04:08:05 <unix_infidel> plusminus_: pretty much is.
Sep 23 04:08:44 <muthu_> plusminus_, haven't you gotten any great android offers?
Sep 23 04:09:10 <plusminus_> ?
Sep 23 04:09:21 <muthu_> lot of companies would love to hire you
Sep 23 04:09:34 <plusminus_> :-D Yeah, I receive lots of job-requests
Sep 23 04:09:36 <gambler> ^^ #android post of the week
Sep 23 04:09:40 <gambler> well done plusminus_
Sep 23 04:09:55 <muthu_> plusminus_, are you not taking any?
Sep 23 04:09:59 <plusminus_> but I have to reqject them because I have to do my internship
Sep 23 04:10:15 <muthu_> oh ok
Sep 23 04:10:18 <unix_infidel> plusminus_: even more impressed that you have a social life in D.C
Sep 23 04:10:28 <muthu_> hehe
Sep 23 04:10:39 <gambler> wow this openstreetmap is a great idea
Sep 23 04:10:41 <muthu_> plusminus_, move to the silicone valley
Sep 23 04:10:44 <plusminus_> ^^ girls are freaky here...
Sep 23 04:11:14 <plusminus_> gambler: yeah really nice but needs some more data and I think Android could be a really big push !
Sep 23 04:12:20 <plusminus_> muthu_: I've received a invitation to a idea-workshop of a big mobile-company (not sure how much I can say, but its not Google/HTC/TMobile)
Sep 23 04:12:36 <muthu_> wow!
Sep 23 04:12:45 <plusminus_> hope they'll pay the flight, because internships pay damn bad ^^
Sep 23 04:12:58 <muthu_> if you ask, they'll pay
Sep 23 04:13:03 <plusminus_> hope so
Sep 23 04:13:04 <unix_infidel> heh, that leaves Nokia
Sep 23 04:13:22 <plusminus_> *silence*
Sep 23 04:13:30 <gambler> lol
Sep 23 04:13:31 <muthu_> yeah, Nokia
Sep 23 04:13:33 <unix_infidel> plusminus_: you in college?
Sep 23 04:13:43 <muthu_> nokia is really feeling the heat
Sep 23 04:13:58 <plusminus_> nope, Fraunhofer institute (close to the campus her in College Park)
Sep 23 04:14:13 <unix_infidel> plusminus_: PhD student?
Sep 23 04:14:21 <plusminus_> nope 5th grade
Sep 23 04:14:27 <plusminus_> Fraunhofer Guys are the ones who made mp3
Sep 23 04:14:57 <unix_infidel> lol.
Sep 23 04:15:12 <gambler> <muthu_> plusminus_, move to the silicone valley
Sep 23 04:15:14 <gambler> best slip ever
Sep 23 04:15:18 <muthu_> lol
Sep 23 04:15:21 <plusminus_> I hope *the company* doesn't back out as they see I'm a student :-D
Sep 23 04:15:51 <muthu_> gambler, did they change the name ;)
Sep 23 04:16:01 <plusminus_> :-D
Sep 23 04:16:15 <muthu_> plusminus_, companies love to hire studens
Sep 23 04:16:23 <plusminus_> because we are cheap :(
Sep 23 04:16:34 <muthu_> yeah, and you work like crazy
Sep 23 04:16:43 <plusminus_> yeah thats right
Sep 23 04:16:43 <gambler> im a big fan of all things silicon and silicone
Sep 23 04:16:53 <plusminus_> if sth interests me, I'm a bit crazy
Sep 23 04:17:07 <plusminus_> gambler: who here isn't :-P
Sep 23 04:17:17 <muthu_> plusminus_, make sure its android related
Sep 23 04:17:50 <plusminus_> I'd so love getting an android job
Sep 23 04:17:56 <plusminus_> or maybe become a freelancer
Sep 23 04:18:09 <muthu_> android consulting will be huge
Sep 23 04:18:43 <plusminus_> and it pays better than coding
Sep 23 04:19:12 <muthu_> yeah
Sep 23 04:19:23 <muthu_> its all about making use of your contacts
Sep 23 04:19:25 <dmoffett> plusminus: You are what you negotiate and imo you have leverage.
Sep 23 04:19:42 <muthu_> plusminus_, is an android celebrity
Sep 23 04:19:52 <muthu_> he's like the tom hanks of android :)
Sep 23 04:19:52 <umdk1d3> yay site appears to be live now
Sep 23 04:19:56 * plusminus_ looking up 'leverage'
Sep 23 04:20:01 <umdk1d3> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 04:20:09 <plusminus_> :)
Sep 23 04:20:29 <plusminus_> umdk1d3: all sites lead to that damn popup
Sep 23 04:20:32 <dmoffett> We have a celebrities of various degrees here.
Sep 23 04:20:44 <muthu_> woah, nice.. tmo
Sep 23 04:21:11 <muthu_> who's goin?
Sep 23 04:21:13 <umdk1d3> <!-- Activity Name for this tag is:Kila Learn Blade Page -->
Sep 23 04:21:15 <dmoffett> plusminus: you have the skills they need.  Leverage the advantage.
Sep 23 04:21:23 * umdk1d3 digs deeper into source
Sep 23 04:21:36 <muthu_> dmoffett, yeah.. lots of celebs here
Sep 23 04:22:57 <muthu_> must admit android dev is a real pleasure
Sep 23 04:23:10 <plusminus_> ack
Sep 23 04:23:14 <muthu_> well done, google android team!
Sep 23 04:23:31 <muthu_> its ridiculously easy to do almost anything
Sep 23 04:23:53 <muthu_> android is the php for mobile
Sep 23 04:24:00 <summatusmentis> I want an android phone not on tmobile
Sep 23 04:24:10 <swetland> muthu: is that good or bad? ^^
Sep 23 04:24:17 <summatusmentis> specifically on a cdma provider
Sep 23 04:24:37 <muthu_> swetland, its very good
Sep 23 04:24:46 <plusminus_> btw: I'll place my OpenStreetMap-Contributor to GPS-Activities of my (unfortunately-leightweighted)AndNav. I wonder how many Points all users wil have supplied within one year.
Sep 23 04:25:38 <plusminus_> depending on the momentum between 100.000 and 100.000 with some more zeros behind...
Sep 23 04:27:41 <muthu_> wow, public smoking banned in chennai from oct 2
Sep 23 04:28:01 <plusminus_> completely?
Sep 23 04:28:14 <muthu_> yes, you smoke only in assigned areas
Sep 23 04:28:20 <dmoffett> Wow
Sep 23 04:28:26 <muthu_> you know like in airport smoking chambers
Sep 23 04:28:40 <plusminus_> hm, I'll be making friends... i think its right that way
Sep 23 04:28:43 <muthu_> http://www.deccan.com/chennaichronicle/Chennai%20Chronicle/Chennai%20ChronicleDescription.asp
Sep 23 04:28:44 <plusminus_> :-P
Sep 23 04:28:53 <muthu_> yes
Sep 23 04:34:51 <umdk1d3> interesting
Sep 23 04:34:51 <umdk1d3> "/* -- Form styles (adapted from Whisper page (whisper_styles.css)) -- */"
Sep 23 04:34:51 <umdk1d3> was there a whisper tmobile phone?
Sep 23 04:34:51 <umdk1d3> AHA!!!!!!!
Sep 23 04:34:51 <umdk1d3> JACKPOTS!!!!
Sep 23 04:34:52 <umdk1d3> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/g1_images/google_g1_phone_desktop.jpg
Sep 23 04:34:54 <umdk1d3> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/g1_images/google_g1_phone_maps.jpg
Sep 23 04:34:56 <umdk1d3> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/g1_images/google_g1_phone_group.jpg
Sep 23 04:34:58 <umdk1d3> i see a "myfavs" icon on the desktop
Sep 23 04:35:00 <umdk1d3> and they searched for hiking trails lol
Sep 23 04:35:31 <plusminus_> nice :)
Sep 23 04:35:47 <muthu_> looks great
Sep 23 04:36:42 <plusminus_> yeah, except that trackball... looks strange on these pictires
Sep 23 04:37:47 <umdk1d3> did any of those links go throught?
Sep 23 04:37:52 <umdk1d3> i think my connection dropped
Sep 23 04:38:01 <plusminus_> 3 came through
Sep 23 04:38:12 <plusminus_> umdk1d3: mind if I post them on anddev.org ?
Sep 23 04:38:15 <umdk1d3> yea thats all i found so far  ;)
Sep 23 04:38:20 <umdk1d3> go ahead  :)
Sep 23 04:38:22 <plusminus_> thx
Sep 23 04:38:24 <umdk1d3> DONT attrib to me tho
Sep 23 04:38:27 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 04:38:28 <muthu_> haha
Sep 23 04:38:56 <muthu_> plusminus_, make sure you give credit to umdk1d3
Sep 23 04:38:57 <umdk1d3> bah there isnt much else to tear apart on that site
Sep 23 04:39:07 <umdk1d3> i found those in the css
Sep 23 04:39:19 * umdk1d3 waits til morning
Sep 23 04:39:22 <muthu_> umdk1d3, you're a real hacker
Sep 23 04:39:40 <umdk1d3> my days are switched around, so im workiung nights now, will go to sleep after launch event prolly
Sep 23 04:39:57 <muthu_> umdk1d3, how long are you working nights?
Sep 23 04:40:11 <umdk1d3> mostly i code til im tired and sleep til i wake up lol
Sep 23 04:40:11 <muthu_> i mean.. how many more days?
Sep 23 04:40:20 <umdk1d3> i find i alternate about every 1.3 weeks
Sep 23 04:40:23 <plusminus_> umdk1d3: crazy man
Sep 23 04:40:25 <umdk1d3> from day/night
Sep 23 04:40:29 <muthu_> oh nice
Sep 23 04:40:34 <muthu_> think, its a good idea
Sep 23 04:40:40 <philhsmith> would someone on windows do a dir in android_sdk/tools?  Is 'emulator' an exe or a bat?
Sep 23 04:43:41 <gambler> exe
Sep 23 04:43:52 <plusminus_> muthu_: yeah, I'm giving credits
Sep 23 04:44:11 <philhsmith> gambler: thanks
Sep 23 04:44:23 <umdk1d3> ... lol
Sep 23 04:44:40 <muthu_> haha
Sep 23 04:45:53 <muthu_> umdk1d3, gocart got like 1m funding
Sep 23 04:49:36 <umdk1d3> yay i found something   http://search.twitter.com/search.json?q=android&page=1
Sep 23 04:49:38 <umdk1d3> perfect  :)
Sep 23 04:49:43 * umdk1d3 goes to write example
Sep 23 05:09:55 <plusminus_> unlike umdk1d3 I need to get some sleep now ;)
Sep 23 05:10:07 <plusminus_> cya guys
Sep 23 05:10:23 * plusminus_ is excited for tomorrow
Sep 23 05:28:35 <dmoffett> Have you seen this?
Sep 23 05:28:38 <dmoffett> http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/app-store-is-a.html
Sep 23 05:28:58 <muthu_> WHAT>?
Sep 23 05:29:01 <muthu_> wow
Sep 23 05:29:14 <muthu_> 250k in 2mo
Sep 23 05:29:16 <dmoffett> Seems like Android can expect something like this for developers as well.
Sep 23 05:29:22 <muthu_> ooooh yeah
Sep 23 05:29:45 <muthu_> not sure when paid apps debut
Sep 23 05:29:56 <dmoffett> It will come I am sure.
Sep 23 05:30:48 <muthu_> nice game
Sep 23 05:31:10 <muthu_> 1-10$ apps will do well
Sep 23 05:31:14 <dmoffett> Games are taking over at the Apple app store.
Sep 23 05:31:35 <muthu_> games are the best bet for an indie dev
Sep 23 05:31:37 <dmoffett> This game is number 64 on the top paid list.
Sep 23 05:31:48 <muthu_> hmm.. wonder what number 1 generates
Sep 23 05:32:02 <dmoffett> So if the article is true then some at the top must be doing the money dance.
Sep 23 05:32:08 <muthu_> yup
Sep 23 05:32:19 <muthu_> lot of school students in top 10
Sep 23 05:32:25 <muthu_> they must've retired already
Sep 23 05:33:04 <f00f-> heh
Sep 23 05:33:10 <muthu_> simple cheap apps = $^,^$
Sep 23 05:33:32 <f00f-> werd
Sep 23 05:33:36 <muthu_> f00f-, yo
Sep 23 05:33:38 <f00f-> not reall sustainable though
Sep 23 05:33:41 <f00f-> some other guy comes along
Sep 23 05:33:43 <f00f-> and steals the market
Sep 23 05:33:47 <muthu_> quick money
Sep 23 05:33:50 <dmoffett> In the long run complex games etc will pay off but for the short term simple apps will be the ticket imo.
Sep 23 05:33:52 <f00f-> so you can make quick fast fly-by-the-night bucks
Sep 23 05:33:54 <muthu_> 2 mo, 250k is great
Sep 23 05:34:02 <f00f-> yeah for sure
Sep 23 05:34:20 <dmoffett> Chump change for f00f.  :-)
Sep 23 05:34:23 <f00f-> so apple makes what, 75 grand?
Sep 23 05:34:31 <f00f-> hahaha dmoffett
Sep 23 05:34:31 <dmoffett> 30%
Sep 23 05:34:33 <f00f-> keep saying that
Sep 23 05:34:36 <f00f-> yep
Sep 23 05:35:01 <muthu_> android market is 80/20?
Sep 23 05:35:10 <dmoffett> It's the power of millions of users.
Sep 23 05:35:36 <f00f-> i wonder how free apps will be regulated
Sep 23 05:35:55 <f00f-> not sure about the split, maybe same as apple 70/30
Sep 23 05:35:56 <muthu_> yeah, exciting
Sep 23 05:36:00 <f00f-> as for google's market, no idea
Sep 23 05:36:04 <muthu_> 100k users downloading at 5$
Sep 23 05:36:28 <muthu_> 10$app will make a million
Sep 23 05:36:56 <muthu_> 1000 users/day
Sep 23 05:36:58 <muthu_> 10 days
Sep 23 05:37:01 <snadge> so much for free software
Sep 23 05:37:02 <muthu_> 1m
Sep 23 05:37:06 <muthu_> hehe
Sep 23 05:37:17 <f00f-> haha
Sep 23 05:37:20 <f00f-> that's what everyone says
Sep 23 05:37:29 <f00f-> yeah we'll have 1000% growth in the first six months
Sep 23 05:37:33 <snadge> i thought that was one of the things to get excited about about android.. you know.. the fact that its FREE.. and OPEN SOURCE
Sep 23 05:37:49 <snadge> who gives a crap about a stupid app store that charges money for shareware
Sep 23 05:37:56 <f00f-> you sound more like a user snadge than a businessman :)
Sep 23 05:37:57 <snadge> if you want that, go buy an iphone
Sep 23 05:38:11 <muthu_> users want fun apps
Sep 23 05:38:12 <f00f-> we're in here to make money, that's it
Sep 23 05:38:16 <muthu_> they don't mind paying a few bucks
Sep 23 05:38:19 <dmoffett> I would like to make a modest living doing something I like to do.
Sep 23 05:38:45 <muthu_> yeah
Sep 23 05:39:24 <snadge> so go write iphone apps then, and leave android alone :p j/k
Sep 23 05:40:01 <f00f-> actually i'll probably be doing symbian/java me before iphone
Sep 23 05:40:13 <f00f-> not going to waste time of doing a native client for iphone
Sep 23 05:40:32 <muthu_> google wants you to make money
Sep 23 05:40:34 <muthu_> so do that
Sep 23 05:40:51 <snadge> the main reason im excited about android.. is because im a gnu/linux user
Sep 23 05:41:13 <f00f-> you should get an N810 or openmoko, which are truly open source :P
Sep 23 05:41:14 <snadge> and i would like a phone that mirrors that choice
Sep 23 05:41:34 <snadge> i said i was a linux user.. which is actually rare, as opposed to a linux developer
Sep 23 05:41:35 <muthu_> snadge, there are paid apps for gnu/linux
Sep 23 05:41:55 <dmoffett> snadge: How are you going to pay for the phone?
Sep 23 05:41:55 <muthu_> there's always the choice
Sep 23 05:42:13 <snadge> i dont want to have to recompile my kernel, and then minicom into my modem and run AT commands to make a phone call
Sep 23 05:42:28 <f00f-> man i hope android gives AT access to the GSM modem
Sep 23 05:42:28 <snadge> (openmoko)
Sep 23 05:43:05 <snadge> dmoffett: with money that i get from my job as a linux system administrator
Sep 23 05:43:23 <dmoffett> Until someone pays me to write free software I have a dilemma on how to buy my next Hummer.  :-)
Sep 23 05:43:52 <snadge> thats where you got it wrong.. being a programmer sucks.. theres no money in that, free software has ruined it
Sep 23 05:43:56 <snadge> go get a real job ;)
Sep 23 05:44:04 <snadge> hehe
Sep 23 05:44:53 <muthu_> no free software like android helps developers
Sep 23 05:45:34 <snadge> thats right.. so if i dont have to pay for, and get full access to the code which runs my kernel.. organises my phonebook etc etc
Sep 23 05:45:59 <snadge> why should i pay $5 to download some silly pointless app ;)
Sep 23 05:46:16 <dmoffett> You have that choice.
Sep 23 05:46:49 <muthu_> snadge, you don't have to
Sep 23 05:46:52 <muthu_> that's the beauty of it
Sep 23 05:47:17 <dmoffett> f00f: What in the world are you going to do with AT commands?
Sep 23 05:47:46 <dmoffett> Ahh I remember you are a man of self inflicted pain.
Sep 23 05:48:06 <dmoffett> I guess that comes with living in the Bay area.  :-)
Sep 23 05:48:32 <snadge> i think i can see the point actually .. i strongly believe that all operating systems and development tools should be free software
Sep 23 05:49:35 <snadge> but im not against the notion of proprietary software entirely.. for example, i think that model applies best (at the moment) to games.. and i guess other things which arn't a joy to write, but provide benefit to people.. aka "boring" apps
Sep 23 05:50:29 <dmoffett> ``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of ``free'' as in ``free speech,'' not as in ``free beer.''
Sep 23 05:50:34 <snadge> following that logic though.. its hard to see why anyone gives any code away for free.. or works on any free software project
Sep 23 05:51:05 <f00f-> yes yes dmoffett, you know me all too well :D
Sep 23 05:51:20 <snadge> thats right.. with games for example, theres no real reason why they cant be open sourced.. and the artwork contains the proprietary license
Sep 23 05:52:08 <f00f-> that's what all the other pro-copyleft/floss trolls say
Sep 23 05:52:13 <snadge> then it comes back to the argument of not wanting to help competitors.. its obvious that they see more value in keeping the code from the public, than opening it up
Sep 23 05:52:29 <f00f-> you need to accept the fact that someone may work hard to produce IP and not want to share it with the rest of the world
Sep 23 05:53:18 <snadge> most of the free software falls into the scratching an itch category
Sep 23 05:53:40 <snadge> plus lazy people who dont feel like maintaining something all by themselves.. and dont want to see it die
Sep 23 05:54:46 <f00f-> right
Sep 23 05:54:55 <f00f-> in those instances, i'd encourage FLOSS'ing it
Sep 23 05:57:18 <snadge> i personally want to see more programmers being paid to write free software
Sep 23 05:57:37 <snadge> and companies recognising the value in doing that, and attitudes towards intellectual property changing
Sep 23 05:57:42 <f00f-> join google or ibm or other companies
Sep 23 05:57:45 <dmoffett> that works for me.  It seems though you think programmers are not worth paying?
Sep 23 05:58:10 <snadge> on the contrary.. programmers should be paid according to their experience etc like any other profession
Sep 23 05:58:46 <snadge> you pay a plumber to come in, fix your pipes etc.. you pay him for his time
Sep 23 05:58:59 <dmoffett> Guess you lost me at the part where you said for me to go get a real job.
Sep 23 05:59:00 <snadge> you dont then pay him a royalty for all the water that flows through the pipes.. or have him on a retainer
Sep 23 05:59:33 <muthu_> there's tons of money programmers make
Sep 23 05:59:50 <snadge> programmers expect this license to print money for some reason.. have this fantasy idea that they can lock themselves up in a room for 2 weeks.. make some fancy program, and live off it like a cash cow for the rest of their life
Sep 23 06:00:26 <muthu_> oh yeah
Sep 23 06:00:27 <snadge> the problem is.. programmers see things like microsoft.. and think this is normal, or that this is okay ;)
Sep 23 06:00:45 <f00f-> hahaha
Sep 23 06:01:21 <dmoffett> Another generalization:  System admins like to sit in a room for years with a surely attitude and screw up most anything you ask them to do.  :-)
Sep 23 06:01:33 <snadge> programming is very hard work.. if you want things to be easy.. be a dish pick, or a console operator
Sep 23 06:01:49 <snadge> or a linux system admin ;)
Sep 23 06:01:58 <umdk1d3> snadge: programming is smart work, like how you would hire a physicist
Sep 23 06:02:03 <umdk1d3> not fixing your plumbing
Sep 23 06:02:08 <f00f-> i used to want to be a pilot or train driver (conductor?) or a truck driver
Sep 23 06:02:13 <umdk1d3> plumbing would be analagous to geek squad
Sep 23 06:02:43 <snadge> plumbing requires skills, knowledge and equipment
Sep 23 06:02:49 <snadge> just like programming does
Sep 23 06:03:03 <snadge> not everyone has those skills, not everyone can easily obtain them
Sep 23 06:03:12 <muthu_> programming sucks when your code is broken
Sep 23 06:03:18 <snadge> therefore we pay other people to do it.. pretty simple stuff ;)
Sep 23 06:03:19 <muthu_> shit, i hate it now
Sep 23 06:03:19 <f00f-> which for muthu, is always
Sep 23 06:03:26 <muthu_> hehe
Sep 23 06:03:39 <snadge> but programmers think they're special for some reason
Sep 23 06:03:47 <umdk1d3> okay
Sep 23 06:03:49 <muthu_> programmers are GOD
Sep 23 06:03:49 <dmoffett> We are special.
Sep 23 06:04:09 <snadge> dont get me wrong.. i enjoy coding.. i used to even code for fun
Sep 23 06:04:12 <umdk1d3> i think were talking about a blue/white collar division
Sep 23 06:04:28 <snadge> i guess what im trying to say is.. that programming is kind of blue collar
Sep 23 06:04:33 <f00f-> yeah
Sep 23 06:04:36 <dmoffett> System Admin == some one who wishes they were a programmer.  :-)
Sep 23 06:04:36 <f00f-> architecting is white collar
Sep 23 06:04:43 <umdk1d3> f00f-: exactly
Sep 23 06:04:52 <f00f-> i'm trying to get into that
Sep 23 06:04:58 <muthu_> haha
Sep 23 06:05:01 <f00f-> well i'm doing that already for this android stuff
Sep 23 06:05:02 <snadge> actually no.. system admin == someone who used to be a programmer
Sep 23 06:05:02 <f00f-> but you know
Sep 23 06:05:19 <snadge> i get paid 4 times as much, for doing a quarter of the work i used to.. when i was a coder
Sep 23 06:05:26 <snadge> hehe
Sep 23 06:05:41 <snadge> and because they're linux systems.. i dont actually have to do anything
Sep 23 06:05:51 <snadge> (much)
Sep 23 06:05:56 <muthu_> almost everyone gets paid that way
Sep 23 06:06:05 <muthu_> you just sit in your cube and read dilbert
Sep 23 06:06:08 <umdk1d3> lol sysadmins script everything in their lives  :P
Sep 23 06:06:12 <snadge> back when i was a programmer.. i used to have to work really hard.. it sucked
Sep 23 06:06:24 <snadge> and if i had a slack day.. someone would ride me hard about it
Sep 23 06:07:16 <umdk1d3> mmmm 8.5hrs away
Sep 23 06:07:25 <muthu_> sysadmins actually have a full time job elsewhere
Sep 23 06:07:53 <dmoffett> snadge: So you brag about make 4 times as much and doing a 1/4 of the work and gripe about a programmer wanting to cash out on very hard work?
Sep 23 06:08:13 <f00f-> chowned
Sep 23 06:08:17 <muthu_> most sysadmin as day traders
Sep 23 06:08:33 <gambler> my makefiles are getting out of control here
Sep 23 06:08:33 <snadge> dmoffett: i went from a particularly poorly paying programming job
Sep 23 06:08:56 <snadge> to a well paying sysadmin job.. hectic conditions.. to much more favourable ones
Sep 23 06:09:00 <dmoffett> Nothing personal just reviewing your arguments.  :-)
Sep 23 06:09:07 <umdk1d3> yay countdown timer   http://tinyurl.com/3p5q86
Sep 23 06:09:09 <snadge> there are programming jobs which would pay 10 times what i get now
Sep 23 06:09:18 <snadge> eg.. if you were writing games for the playstation 3
Sep 23 06:09:26 <snadge> you can easily get 250k on a salary
Sep 23 06:09:39 <f00f-> not bad
Sep 23 06:09:40 <snadge> but good luck.. your brain needs to be the size of the planet
Sep 23 06:09:48 <f00f-> well
Sep 23 06:09:53 <f00f-> they do what they did in the 2000's
Sep 23 06:09:54 <f00f-> fresh grads
Sep 23 06:10:01 <f00f-> give them lots of cash
Sep 23 06:10:07 <f00f-> work them hard for 4-5 years
Sep 23 06:10:11 <muthu_> and your brain gets used to it
Sep 23 06:10:11 <f00f-> and *poof* they're out
Sep 23 06:10:13 <f00f-> burnout
Sep 23 06:10:24 <muthu_> and retire
Sep 23 06:10:29 <snadge> or you can be a php programmer for a crappy small company.. and work heaps hard and get stuff all for it (like i was0
Sep 23 06:10:30 <f00f-> barely
Sep 23 06:11:01 <f00f-> some php devs make $15/hr
Sep 23 06:11:16 <snadge> now im sysadmin for an online casino company.. which is almost like south african diamond money
Sep 23 06:11:30 <snadge> yeah i was on about $12 an hour
Sep 23 06:11:38 <f00f-> wtf
Sep 23 06:11:41 <f00f-> blood diamonds, basically
Sep 23 06:11:48 <f00f-> how can you be a gnu/linux user and support that
Sep 23 06:11:49 <f00f-> :P
Sep 23 06:12:17 <snadge> the company uses gnu/linux as its entire infrastructure
Sep 23 06:12:29 <snadge> i guess it must be the most efficient choice for liberating people of their money ;)
Sep 23 06:12:57 <muthu_> you use free software to make money
Sep 23 06:13:00 <muthu_> that's the way it works
Sep 23 06:13:20 <f00f-> lots of android jobs/gigs popping up
Sep 23 06:13:42 <dmoffett> Really I have not seen much?
Sep 23 06:13:49 <snadge> i just want an android phone because of mainly my views on software
Sep 23 06:13:52 <dmoffett> Not really looked hard though.
Sep 23 06:14:02 <snadge> and really, its because the iphone and winmo suck balls
Sep 23 06:14:07 <f00f-> i just craigslisted that right now
Sep 23 06:14:16 <f00f-> motorola is hiring
Sep 23 06:14:17 <dmoffett> nice
Sep 23 06:14:18 <snadge> and so does symbian.. so it leaves me with this vague hope that google can actually do something with this android thing
Sep 23 06:14:42 <muthu_> android jobs - gr88
Sep 23 06:14:43 <dmoffett> snage: why does the iPhone suck?
Sep 23 06:14:50 <f00f-> i feell like applying
Sep 23 06:14:58 <snadge> dmoffett: its too simple.. and restrictive
Sep 23 06:14:58 <muthu_> go for it
Sep 23 06:15:08 <snadge> when i heard it couldn't even send mms messages.. i couldn't believe it
Sep 23 06:15:15 <dmoffett> f00f: you should and then give me a good recommendation.  :-)
Sep 23 06:15:17 <f00f-> i'm afraid i get it, then it'll be a confilct of interest for my own stuff
Sep 23 06:15:25 <f00f-> of course :)
Sep 23 06:15:49 <snadge> its almost as if .. you know how children have those fake phones that are just toys.. and you push buttons on them and they flash, and make noises etc.. and the idea is the child pretends to play with this and gets joy/entertainment from it?
Sep 23 06:16:06 <snadge> to me, an iphone is basically one of those.. for adults
Sep 23 06:16:42 <snadge> thats basically how i feel about all apple products
Sep 23 06:17:04 <snadge> lowest common denominator .. aka flashy flashy things for morons ;)
Sep 23 06:17:23 <muthu_> iphone sucks
Sep 23 06:17:48 <snadge> indeed.. then when i found out they actually restrict what you can put and cant put on your phone
Sep 23 06:17:50 <muthu_> can you inflate a context menu?
Sep 23 06:17:51 <dmoffett> snadge:  The iPhone is not ideal for sure but don't make the mistake of underestimating it.  I did that for years.  I knew windows was crap and NeXT would crush them.
Sep 23 06:17:59 <muthu_> the oncontextmenu is not getting fired
Sep 23 06:18:12 <muthu_> dmoffett, good point
Sep 23 06:18:15 <f00f-> lol
Sep 23 06:18:28 <snadge> yeah but NeXT isnt free software
Sep 23 06:18:34 <snadge> and android is :P
Sep 23 06:18:41 <muthu_> snadge, good point
Sep 23 06:18:46 <snadge> maybe it would have caught on.. if jobbs decided to give it away for free
Sep 23 06:18:46 <dmoffett> It was about as free as you could get in the 90s.
Sep 23 06:19:10 <snadge> in fact.. its not as if NeXT was a waste of time.. apparently a lot of that stuff is in MacOS X
Sep 23 06:19:12 <taaz> dmoffett: hey what's up?  check your msgs
Sep 23 06:19:22 <snadge> people mistakenly believe that OSX = BSD .. but its not even close
Sep 23 06:19:23 <dmoffett> OSX ~= NeXT.
Sep 23 06:19:31 <snadge> they have "parts" of the BSD kernel.. and thats it
Sep 23 06:19:36 <snadge> not even the useful parts ;)
Sep 23 06:20:03 <muthu_> weird, onmenuitemselected is called for a context menu selection
Sep 23 06:20:18 <muthu_> instead of oncontextmenuselected
Sep 23 06:20:20 <dmoffett> taaz: Hello, Sorry you lost me.
Sep 23 06:20:59 <muthu_>         MenuInflater inflater = getMenuInflater();
Sep 23 06:20:59 <muthu_>         inflater.inflate(R.menu.results_context, menu);
Sep 23 06:20:59 <muthu_>         super.onCreateContextMenu(menu, v, menuInfo);
Sep 23 06:21:16 <muthu_> i do that oncreatecontextmenu
Sep 23 06:21:21 <taaz> dmoffett: you're dmoffett who worked at dyncorp right?
Sep 23 06:21:31 <dmoffett> Yes I am.
Sep 23 06:21:32 <umdk1d3> ooh i didnt know you could xml'ize menus
Sep 23 06:21:33 <snadge> so is this G1 really being released tomorrow?
Sep 23 06:21:34 <dmoffett> David?
Sep 23 06:21:37 <snadge> or is slashdot on drugs
Sep 23 06:21:59 <taaz> dmoffett: yup.  just thought i'd say hi.
Sep 23 06:22:03 <muthu_> umdk1d3, oh yeah
Sep 23 06:22:11 <muthu_> it works for options menu
Sep 23 06:22:26 <dmoffett> Yeah Wow that is very cool.  What are you up to these days?
Sep 23 06:22:34 <muthu_> but context menu.. take the options menu behavior which sucks
Sep 23 06:22:53 <taaz> i think it's funny you are still talking up NeXT :)  you got me hooked on that os back in the day
Sep 23 06:23:03 <dmoffett> lol
Sep 23 06:23:18 <dmoffett> still the same old fart I guess.  :-)
Sep 23 06:23:48 <snadge> apple will never be truly successful.. say, the way microsoft enjoys
Sep 23 06:23:58 <snadge> because they are even more restrictive than microsoft
Sep 23 06:24:02 <taaz> dmoffett: yeah i just ran saw your name here and in the Stocker code or whatever its called and figured it was you
Sep 23 06:24:28 <snadge> it doesnt matter how brilliant NeXT is or was.. it was/is always going to fail because of apple
Sep 23 06:24:36 <taaz> man... sleepy. can't even write proper sentences :)
Sep 23 06:24:39 <dmoffett> I will fire off an email to you.
Sep 23 06:24:59 <dmoffett> Man really good to hear from you.
Sep 23 06:25:05 <taaz> snadge: yeah but GNUstep will live on!
Sep 23 06:25:28 * taaz says while typing on a powerbook
Sep 23 06:26:13 <snadge> damn straight.. i cant wait until android is ported to the pc
Sep 23 06:26:21 <snadge> and netbooks.. and everything else :P (wristwatches etc)
Sep 23 06:26:49 <muthu_> suddenly context menu behaves like an options menu
Sep 23 06:26:56 <muthu_> WTF!
Sep 23 06:27:52 <taaz> so i imagine a bunch of you will be getting a g1?
Sep 23 06:28:08 <muthu_> if available in india, yes
Sep 23 06:30:00 <snadge> if i can unlock it and use it in australia, yes :p
Sep 23 06:30:20 <muthu_> context menu gets confused, if options menu is present
Sep 23 06:30:43 <snadge> i will be in usa in november.. so theres no question if i can physically purchase one whilst there.. the question is whether it will be useful to me when i bring it back home on the plane
Sep 23 06:30:56 <muthu_> snadge, get me one :)
Sep 23 06:31:05 <taaz> my current phone is a nokia shorty pre-paid piece of junk.  i'm not sure i could handle the upgrade.
Sep 23 06:31:14 <snadge> we dont have a t-mobile here in aus .. so if i cant unlock it.. it will be like an expensive flashy paperweight
Sep 23 06:31:18 <taaz> i mean really, since when did phones have color screens? :)
Sep 23 06:31:45 <muthu_> haha.. me too. i have a old brick.
Sep 23 06:31:59 <snadge> my old brick had its screen smashed in.. so i borrowed someone elses old brick :p
Sep 23 06:32:25 <snadge> i did that by throwing it at the cat
Sep 23 06:32:32 <snadge> missed, and cracked on the corner of my bed
Sep 23 06:32:50 <dmoffett> I am scared to say that I have an iPhone and it is pretty damn sweet.
Sep 23 06:33:04 <snadge> a g1 or an iphone.. i probably wouldn't peg at my cat in anger
Sep 23 06:33:07 <snadge> hehe
Sep 23 06:34:52 <dmoffett> The Rotten Tomatoes app alone is worth the price of admission.
Sep 23 06:35:10 <dmoffett> Got me out of seeing a chick flick last week end.  :-)
Sep 23 06:35:23 <umdk1d3> i think that android will benefit from apps like that
Sep 23 06:35:32 <umdk1d3> because theyve already gotten companies to "think mobile"
Sep 23 06:35:42 <umdk1d3> and design/build the mobile backends needed
Sep 23 06:35:53 <umdk1d3> "porting" their apps to another device is easy for them
Sep 23 06:35:58 <taaz> i imagine people will just look at top iphone app sellers and clone them to android
Sep 23 06:36:09 <dmoffett> Already working on it.  :-)
Sep 23 06:37:08 <taaz> i may try that idea too.  but i only just did android hello world this weekend.  i've got some catching up to do.
Sep 23 06:37:30 <dmoffett> You will pick it up quick.
Sep 23 06:38:33 <f00f-> oh no dmoffett
Sep 23 06:38:37 <taaz> i hope so.  i also hava forgotten java.  python is just too much fun.
Sep 23 06:38:38 <f00f-> you're fired.
Sep 23 06:39:08 <f00f-> i'm rewriting our backend from php to java. it's a joy.... deployment is so much easier for server-side apps in java
Sep 23 06:39:25 <f00f-> a jar and a war, done/done
Sep 23 06:39:26 <dmoffett> What did I say, I am always doing that?
Sep 23 06:39:42 <dmoffett> taaz: Have you checked out Ruby?
Sep 23 06:39:57 <dmoffett> Ruby is one better than Python in that everything is an object.
Sep 23 06:40:02 <dmoffett> Ruby is slower though.
Sep 23 06:40:46 <taaz> dmoffett: did some tutorials years ago but haven't done any projects with it.  just some capistrano scripts lately.
Sep 23 06:41:21 <dmoffett> I was dragged from Python kicking and screaming but now I like it better.
Sep 23 06:41:46 <taaz> javascript is kinda fun.  except for lack of a common namespace sort of thing.
Sep 23 06:41:56 <dmoffett> Back doing OSX development now though.
Sep 23 06:42:38 <dmoffett> taaz: you and f00f must get together.  You both seem to like pain.  :-)
Sep 23 06:43:07 <muthu_> taaz, & f00f-
Sep 23 06:43:31 <taaz> pain?  how about at work we converted a huge java project into c++.
Sep 23 06:43:46 <muthu_> f00f-, really, switching to java?
Sep 23 06:44:04 <f00f-> muthu_: yeah
Sep 23 06:44:09 <f00f-> PHP is garbage for algorithms
Sep 23 06:44:18 <dmoffett> taaz: you will have to refresh my memory more.
Sep 23 06:44:30 <muthu_> f00f-, try python
Sep 23 06:44:49 <taaz> dmoffett: eh?  current thing i'm doing.  not something from long ago.
Sep 23 06:44:50 <f00f-> although doing remote web service stuff is painful in java (PHP equivalent of $xml = simplexml_load_string(file_get_contents("http://...")))
Sep 23 06:45:10 <f00f-> i need something maintainable
Sep 23 06:45:11 <muthu_> java is a pain with frameworks
Sep 23 06:45:27 <f00f-> python is not really deployable nicely
Sep 23 06:45:30 <dmoffett> Yeah C++ is very painful and a horrible language.
Sep 23 06:45:34 <f00f-> with the whole site being installed in /usr
Sep 23 06:45:42 <f00f-> and you have to fake the site path, etc.
Sep 23 06:45:45 <f00f-> similar ot perl's issues
Sep 23 06:45:50 <f00f-> and php's php.ini and pear installation
Sep 23 06:45:55 <f00f-> java is self-contained
Sep 23 06:45:59 <f00f-> i need a jvm, and my .jar and i'm set
Sep 23 06:46:00 <muthu_> seam is good
Sep 23 06:46:07 <taaz> i'm really curious how fast android is being in java.  my recent experience is that C is crazy faster.  so much so that i'm wondering if our java code was just outright written totally wrong.
Sep 23 06:46:16 <f00f-> no JIT in android 1.0
Sep 23 06:46:46 <dmoffett> I wonder that myself.  Java uses lots of memory and can be slow.
Sep 23 06:47:02 <f00f-> google talk servers are written in java5 using JNI
Sep 23 06:47:03 <f00f-> er
Sep 23 06:47:08 <f00f-> using nio for network communication
Sep 23 06:47:16 <f00f-> not python ;)
Sep 23 06:56:44 <f00f-> conversation killer
Sep 23 06:57:18 <dmoffett> People are tired since you shut everyone down with that weak assed argument.
Sep 23 06:58:28 <f00f-> :D
Sep 23 06:59:22 <dmoffett> The argument begs the question where the decision makers java programmers or was there a technical reason?
Sep 23 06:59:44 <f00f-> i think they were java programmers for sure
Sep 23 07:00:31 <f00f-> i dont see any downsides really with either
Sep 23 07:00:31 <f00f-> as long as you can get people to maintain it
Sep 23 07:00:43 <f00f-> i know some airline booking sites
Sep 23 07:00:48 <f00f-> well not a site
Sep 23 07:00:54 <f00f-> but a major booking/agent company
Sep 23 07:01:03 <f00f-> prototyped their reservation system in python
Sep 23 07:01:12 <f00f-> then rewrote it in java once they solidified the design
Sep 23 07:02:49 <f00f-> but yeah i have it setup quite nicely here
Sep 23 07:02:59 <f00f-> i develop/debug/test in eclipse
Sep 23 07:03:06 <f00f-> and i have a nice ant script that i can use to deploy
Sep 23 07:03:13 <f00f-> and create two files that need to be deployed to production
Sep 23 07:03:48 <dmoffett> Probably not a bad approach.   Really most programs have critical regions that need to be very fast.  Outside of those regions even bad code can be fast enough.  The trick is finding those areas.
Sep 23 07:04:04 <dmoffett> Nice
Sep 23 07:06:56 <dmoffett> f00f: When do you think your app will be ready for end users?  Are you planning a public release soon after the phone is out?
Sep 23 07:10:51 <f00f-> i'd give it a couple of months more
Sep 23 07:11:08 <f00f-> rewriting the backend
Sep 23 07:11:16 <f00f-> the current one is in PHP and would work, but wouldn't be optimal
Sep 23 07:11:37 <f00f-> hopefully before the end of the year
Sep 23 08:34:22 <umdk1d3> mmm /me considers dozing off for a few hours
Sep 23 08:35:20 <muthu_> good luck
Sep 23 08:39:48 <muthu_> shit, i've been overloading onmenuitemselected
Sep 23 08:39:54 <muthu_> instead of onoptionsitemselected
Sep 23 08:40:06 <muthu_> that's the reason for the contextmenu conflict
Sep 23 10:02:09 <davidw> so... the big day approaches, eh?
Sep 23 10:02:23 <muthu_> BIG day
Sep 23 10:04:56 <davidw> anyone got ahold of one of those phones yet?
Sep 23 10:05:09 * davidw has been more or less offline in what passes for "rural" Italy
Sep 23 10:05:30 <muthu_> some phones were shipped for the winners
Sep 23 10:05:33 <muthu_> i didn't get any
Sep 23 10:09:39 <Acsia> gm
Sep 23 10:09:51 <Acsia> has anybody managed to play around with the syncontentprovider?
Sep 23 10:09:55 <Acsia> chomchom?
Sep 23 10:17:56 <davidw> muthu_, no? that's lame
Sep 23 10:18:05 <davidw> that would have been a really nice thing to do for various people
Sep 23 10:18:51 <muthu_> they prbly send it out to every winner
Sep 23 10:19:01 <muthu_> one per team
Sep 23 10:29:27 <ligi> muthu_: devices?
Sep 23 10:29:47 <muthu_> for testing..
Sep 23 10:30:06 <muthu_> didn't get any
Sep 23 10:30:27 <ligi> dam
Sep 23 10:30:31 <ligi> want one too
Sep 23 10:30:56 <ligi> its somehow unfair for adc 2
Sep 23 10:31:09 <muthu_> why?
Sep 23 10:31:19 <tric> yeah, they should send devices for everyone!
Sep 23 10:31:38 <muthu_> adc 2 is a long way to go
Sep 23 10:31:48 <ligi> muthu_: cuz the ones who have phones now can start earlyer
Sep 23 10:32:17 <muthu_> haha.. hopefully they are working on their winning apps
Sep 23 10:32:52 <muthu_> yeah, good to have though
Sep 23 12:37:32 <muthu_> வணக்கம்
Sep 23 12:55:42 <yakischloba> not long now ladies
Sep 23 12:56:54 <plusminus_> so glad that my workspace has a flashplayer :-D
Sep 23 12:57:15 <yakischloba> guess i'd better set that up
Sep 23 12:57:17 <yakischloba> whats the link again?
Sep 23 12:58:26 <dmoffett> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 12:58:47 <yakischloba> thanks.
Sep 23 12:59:25 <yakischloba> oh. i guess i have it already. weird
Sep 23 13:09:07 <plusminus_> EDT is GMT-5, right?
Sep 23 13:09:18 <plusminus_> so it should start in 20 minutes, right?
Sep 23 13:09:38 <spykid> 1 hour and 20 mintues
Sep 23 13:09:49 <tric> its utc-4
Sep 23 13:10:18 <muthu_> is it live?
Sep 23 13:11:26 <tric> no, was recorded some weeks ago and everyone was kindly asked not to talk about it.
Sep 23 13:11:39 <muthu_> oh ok
Sep 23 13:20:41 <yakischloba> lol
Sep 23 13:20:56 <yakischloba> morning Dougie187
Sep 23 13:21:02 <Dougie187> Morning
Sep 23 13:21:06 <Dougie187> Hows it going?
Sep 23 13:21:17 <yakischloba> pretty good and yourself?
Sep 23 13:21:26 <Dougie187> pretty good
Sep 23 13:21:33 <Dougie187> the amazon mp3 thing is pretty cool for the G1
Sep 23 13:21:46 <yakischloba> huh?
Sep 23 13:22:11 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/amazon-6-million-drm-free-songs-on-t-mobile-g1/
Sep 23 13:22:36 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/22/meet-the-t-mobile-g1/
Sep 23 13:22:39 <yakischloba> hmm no shit
Sep 23 13:23:04 <slango> Android is Linux-based? Has it always been?
Sep 23 13:23:13 <muthu_> wow
Sep 23 13:23:17 <muthu_> that's tunewiki
Sep 23 13:23:20 <Dougie187> no prepay
Sep 23 13:23:25 <Dougie187> slango: yes
Sep 23 13:23:36 <Dougie187> it requires a data plan.
Sep 23 13:23:42 <slango> hmm... when it first came out, I thought that I had heard that it wasn't
Sep 23 13:23:51 <Dougie187> slango: you heard wrong?
Sep 23 13:23:55 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 23 13:24:18 <Dougie187> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/#
Sep 23 13:24:25 <slango> Dougie187: hmm, I guess so.
Sep 23 13:25:00 <slango> and AT&T hasn't even glanced in Android's direction yet, have they?
Sep 23 13:25:33 <Dougie187> not as far as i know.
Sep 23 13:25:36 <Dougie187> they aren't part of the OHA
Sep 23 13:25:53 <Dougie187> only sprint and tmobile have devices that will be out by the end of the year from what i have heard
Sep 23 13:26:52 <spykid> Dougie187: And T-Mobile operates in 13 countries ;)
Sep 23 13:27:02 <Dougie187> True
Sep 23 13:27:12 <Dougie187> but the phone requires a data plan.
Sep 23 13:27:18 <spykid> So what?
Sep 23 13:27:21 <Dougie187> so probably no unlocked. at least at first.
Sep 23 13:27:32 <Dougie187> and it won't be sold outside of a 3G markets
Sep 23 13:27:41 <yakischloba> there are people that will be working on unlocking it within hours of its release
Sep 23 13:27:41 <muthu_> oh
Sep 23 13:27:47 <yakischloba> there always are
Sep 23 13:27:52 <Dougie187> "Available in some locations directly outside of the 3G boundary area due to the fact that some customers who live in the 3G boundary area shop within a 2 - 5 mile radius and the store they would go to is outside of the 3G boundary area."
Sep 23 13:27:54 <spykid> In germany T-Mobile is selling the iphone and they drop the cheapest plan for it at october 1st :D
Sep 23 13:28:40 <spykid> Dougie187: T-Mobile has an incredile 3G network in germany 99%
Sep 23 13:28:55 <Dougie187> Well, maybe you will see it in germany next month then.
Sep 23 13:29:03 <Dougie187> maybe they will say what networks are going to get it later today.
Sep 23 13:29:10 <spykid> Of course, I know it ;)
Sep 23 13:29:26 <gambler> I have this funky class the Android Verifier has a problem with. It compiles ok but throws a VFY: rejecting opcode 0x71 at 0x0007
Sep 23 13:29:32 <gambler> The class is: http://pastebin.com/m42133152
Sep 23 13:30:43 <gambler> not sure the best way to proceed
Sep 23 13:31:13 <pjv> I'm hoping HTC will make its own anouncement later today on its website
Sep 23 13:32:03 <pjv> hoping it will be available without contract as well in some countries (where phone+contract is prohibited by law)
Sep 23 13:33:29 <Dougie187> who knows. we will see though.
Sep 23 13:33:46 <yakischloba> wow
Sep 23 13:33:56 <yakischloba> i just discovered there are 2 commodore amigas in my data center
Sep 23 13:34:02 <yakischloba> wtf
Sep 23 13:34:40 <yakischloba> someone pays to have them colo hosted..
Sep 23 13:35:15 <yakischloba> http://oldcomputers.net/amiga2000.html
Sep 23 13:37:38 <Dougie187> thats pretty awesome
Sep 23 13:37:56 <yakischloba> along with some ancient ppc mac
Sep 23 13:38:05 <yakischloba> i duno if its worth whatever we  charge for colo lol
Sep 23 13:40:56 <Dougie187> ppc's are awesome though
Sep 23 13:41:00 <muthu_> gambler, it might be using unsupported libraries
Sep 23 13:41:53 <gambler> muthu_, as far as I can tell its not...im just trying to use this without patching his code too much.
Sep 23 13:42:16 <gambler> im actually using the Sun Provider now but its really ugly and I want to change
Sep 23 13:42:30 <muthu_> hmm
Sep 23 13:43:34 <tric> gambker: maybe remove this java version check first. not needed on android
Sep 23 13:43:41 <tric> or add an android check ;)
Sep 23 13:47:12 <gambler> tric, yeah Ive tried a few quick hacks like that but the deps start to go nuts
Sep 23 13:49:54 <tric> and please, dont tell me Java14 and Java13 are implementations of JavaImpl
Sep 23 13:51:39 <gambler> what else would they be? ...my rename of Java14 to JavaImpl didnt work because of all the     public static RuntimeException newRuntimeException(Exception cause) {
Sep 23 13:51:39 <gambler>         return HANDLER.buildRuntimeException(cause);
Sep 23 13:51:39 <gambler>     }
Sep 23 13:52:59 <gambler> so all the method names are a little off
Sep 23 13:53:32 <tric> uhm? do you know java at all? this code sucks big time. redesign it first.
Sep 23 13:54:00 <tric> there is a awfull dependency cycle
Sep 23 13:54:48 <plusminus_> it looks like a crazy workaround for sth weird...
Sep 23 13:55:19 <tric> prolly its supposed to break ;)
Sep 23 13:55:25 <gambler> the performance of this implementation is pretty good..and the design for 3rd parties is nice too
Sep 23 13:56:49 <tric> you call cycles a good design?
Sep 23 13:57:08 <yakischloba> i learned a long time ago not to paste my code in here ;)
Sep 23 13:57:11 <gambler> i think the reason thats in there is there was some big change in java 1.3 and 1.4 related to crypto providers
Sep 23 13:58:00 <tric> so? no reason for a design like that
Sep 23 13:59:00 <tric> yakischloba: well, you can paste, but this is an abstract class, so its not the reason for his problem.
Sep 23 13:59:36 <gambler> yakischloba, yah but i get seduced by the lure of the never coming magic bullet
Sep 23 13:59:49 <yakischloba> ;)
Sep 23 14:00:29 <gambler> i think i will probably hire the kid who wrote this to fix it...Im scared if I get it working I will have to maintain it
Sep 23 14:01:13 <gambler> not that its that bad im just really lazy
Sep 23 14:01:56 <tric> no, the kid doesnt know how to write good java code, i wouldnt hire it. hire someone who knows
Sep 23 14:02:56 <Dougie187> aka tric
Sep 23 14:03:05 <yakischloba> I nominate dougie.
Sep 23 14:03:30 <Dougie187> yeah, but i tend to be lazy too.. unless its for a decent amount of money.
Sep 23 14:03:31 <gambler> I havent tested it but I'll bet you $1000 that it runs faster than the Sun provider...
Sep 23 14:03:34 <Dougie187> then i get motivated.
Sep 23 14:03:53 <yakischloba> heh
Sep 23 14:03:59 <Dougie187> hey tric, you should take him up on that bet.
Sep 23 14:04:02 <yakischloba> i want an android phone NOW.
Sep 23 14:04:04 <Dougie187> its like a free $1000
Sep 23 14:04:10 <Dougie187> heh yakischloba do you have tmobile?
Sep 23 14:04:18 <yakischloba> no. i'll be having to switch.
Sep 23 14:04:21 <km-> I'm very confused by the news stories
Sep 23 14:04:22 <Dougie187> from?
Sep 23 14:04:25 <km-> some people say it's coming out today
Sep 23 14:04:25 <yakischloba> verizon
Sep 23 14:04:31 <Dougie187> km-: its not coming out today
Sep 23 14:04:32 <km-> some people say it's being announced today, coming out next month
Sep 23 14:04:33 <gambler> tell me in the next 2 mins or so if you accept the bet...
Sep 23 14:04:40 <Dougie187> km-: its being announced today
Sep 23 14:04:45 <Dougie187> km-: its coming out next month
Sep 23 14:04:50 <Dougie187> on like the 13th or something
Sep 23 14:05:12 <km-> says you, cnet seemed to think otherwise, as did a bunch of other sites, but then again, all news sites seem to get their news from blogs which means collectively nobody knows anything concrete :)
Sep 23 14:05:17 <davidw> gambler, are you more in favor of holding them or folding them/
Sep 23 14:05:27 <Dougie187> km-: keep in mind, some people are also stupid.
Sep 23 14:05:31 <km-> I hope TMO has demo units in the stores so I can fiddle with it before I buy it
Sep 23 14:05:39 <tric> dougie: hehe, no, i dont have time ;)
Sep 23 14:05:53 <Dougie187> from 90% of what ive read, its going to be announced today and released next month.
Sep 23 14:05:55 <gambler> davidw, hmmm...i dont know if its a good bet or not
Sep 23 14:06:05 <gambler> davidw, w/e ill take his action :p
Sep 23 14:06:33 <Dougie187> km-: they will have one in stores too
Sep 23 14:06:45 <loke_> So has tbobile paid for its development?
Sep 23 14:06:51 <Dougie187> http://tmonews.com/2008/09/info-leaks/
Sep 23 14:06:54 * davidw wonders what they'll do about europe
Sep 23 14:07:01 <Dougie187> davidw: im curious too.
Sep 23 14:07:01 <loke_> I mean, is this a tmobile product, or an HTC product that is sold by tmbobile?
Sep 23 14:07:03 <yakischloba> no shit
Sep 23 14:07:09 <Dougie187> not because it affects me, just because it would be interesting.
Sep 23 14:07:11 <yakischloba> my announcment page started buzzing
Sep 23 14:07:30 <Dougie187> loke_: what do you think?
Sep 23 14:07:36 <Dougie187> loke_: i mean it is called the HTC G1
Sep 23 14:07:47 <loke_> Dougie187: well, that's what I would hope/think too
Sep 23 14:07:47 <Dougie187> i'll leave the rest up to you to figure out.
Sep 23 14:07:55 <loke_> Dougie187: ...which is good, since then I
Sep 23 14:08:09 <loke_> Dougie187: ...which is good, since then I'll be able to buy it without any opertor involvement :-)
Sep 23 14:08:16 <loke_> (like I buy all my phones)
Sep 23 14:08:18 <Dougie187> maye.
Sep 23 14:08:24 <km-> WHY NO STEREO BLUETOOTH??? QQ.
Sep 23 14:08:28 <Dougie187> maybe. we don't know if they will be selling it like that yet.
Sep 23 14:08:53 <loke_> Dougie187: why not? if tmobile iddn't actually pay for its development, why would HTC stop themsolves from selling its product?
Sep 23 14:09:07 <loke_> "themselves"
Sep 23 14:09:17 <tric> loke: because of contracts
Sep 23 14:09:22 <loke_> (I really do know how to spell, my fingers are just not agreeing with me today)
Sep 23 14:09:54 <loke_> tric: yes, and why would HTC sign such a contract unles they gets something for it? (i.e. tmobile paid for (at least part of) it)
Sep 23 14:10:37 <Dougie187> just wait and see.
Sep 23 14:10:42 <Dougie187> im not saying htc won't sell the device.
Sep 23 14:10:42 <loke_> I will
Sep 23 14:10:46 <Dougie187> im just saying noone knows yet.
Sep 23 14:10:53 <loke_> Dougie187: that's very true
Sep 23 14:10:53 <Dougie187> it's not released that they will
Sep 23 14:11:01 <loke_> I'll be waiting for a press release from HTC :-)
Sep 23 14:11:07 <Dougie187> the only things i have heard so far is the tmobile will be selling the phone.
Sep 23 14:11:14 <Dougie187> lol if they ever have one.
Sep 23 14:11:20 <nemik> selling to 3G only areas? wow that's dumb
Sep 23 14:11:37 <Dougie187> nemik: they are only selling "in store" in 3G areas.
Sep 23 14:11:39 <loke_> Dougie187: eactly, which is what makes me confused. HTC is known for selling and marketing their phones quite heavily
Sep 23 14:11:41 <Dougie187> you can buy it online from other places.
Sep 23 14:11:51 <loke_> they certainly market their phones much more than any other manufacturer over here
Sep 23 14:12:10 <Dougie187> over here?
Sep 23 14:12:29 <tric> .o(in china)
Sep 23 14:12:36 <Dougie187> nemik: it says you can buy it online for use in a 2G network.
Sep 23 14:12:40 <loke_> I've always liked their hardware designs, but their love for putting Windows on them (like all the other chinese/taiwanese) manufacturers always stopped me from even looking at them
Sep 23 14:12:46 <nemik> Dougie187: ah ok
Sep 23 14:12:48 <loke_> Dougie187: I'm not in China
Sep 23 14:13:07 <Dougie187> where does over here reference then?
Sep 23 14:13:25 <loke_> well, Singapore... but I thought it was quite visibile from my domain
Sep 23 14:13:35 <loke_> visibile
Sep 23 14:13:36 <loke_> argh
Sep 23 14:13:38 <loke_> visible
Sep 23 14:13:39 <Dougie187> lol im not going to waste my time by looking at that.
Sep 23 14:13:42 <yakischloba> music
Sep 23 14:13:43 <Dougie187> i can just ask you.
Sep 23 14:13:44 <tric> LOL
Sep 23 14:13:44 <yakischloba> hmm
Sep 23 14:13:53 <loke_> Dougie187: ok, ok... Lazyness is a virtue
Sep 23 14:13:57 <Dougie187> true.
Sep 23 14:14:11 <Dougie187> nokia doesn't advertise over there a lot?
Sep 23 14:14:33 <loke_> Dougie187: they do
Sep 23 14:14:51 <loke_> Dougie187: mainly the E61 (when it came out, I have that one right now), the N95 and now the E71
Sep 23 14:14:54 <km-> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 14:14:56 <km-> video streaming
Sep 23 14:15:08 <loke_> the high-end models are the ones that people are interested in here
Sep 23 14:15:21 <loke_> people just don't carry the simpler phones
Sep 23 14:15:44 <Dougie187> cool
Sep 23 14:15:51 <davidw> km-, doesn''t seem like it's really streaming much
Sep 23 14:15:54 <km-> well
Sep 23 14:15:57 <km-> it's the standby screen
Sep 23 14:15:59 <davidw> I feel like I'm on hold
Sep 23 14:16:02 <Dougie187> davidw: it hasnt even started yet.
Sep 23 14:16:04 <km-> when the presentation starts it'll start up.
Sep 23 14:16:06 <Dougie187> it starts in 15 minutes.
Sep 23 14:16:21 <km-> so yeah, you are on hold :)
Sep 23 14:16:34 <km-> just imagine it's a 3g video call.
Sep 23 14:16:38 <km-> which android wont support ;)
Sep 23 14:16:46 <davidw> ehehehhe
Sep 23 14:17:32 <km-> nice
Sep 23 14:17:35 <km-> it sounds like s3m music
Sep 23 14:17:35 <km-> heh
Sep 23 14:17:39 <km-> go demoscene!
Sep 23 14:19:27 <loke_> no video call supoport?
Sep 23 14:21:48 <yakischloba> hmm
Sep 23 14:22:33 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobile-g1-first-hands-on/
Sep 23 14:22:35 <davidw> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/puffbox/hyperpuff/audiovideo/technology/wide_av_hyper/7631173.stm
Sep 23 14:23:45 <summatusmentis> I want cdma android :)
Sep 23 14:23:59 <Dougie187> its pretty sweet looking
Sep 23 14:24:02 <Dougie187> i like the black version too
Sep 23 14:25:11 * davidw want
Sep 23 14:25:12 <km-> oooooo
Sep 23 14:25:16 <km-> sound checks
Sep 23 14:25:41 <Dougie187> heh
Sep 23 14:25:43 <Dougie187> 5 minutes
Sep 23 14:26:13 <umdk1d3> yay sound
Sep 23 14:27:32 <muthu_> is it audible?
Sep 23 14:27:46 <umdk1d3> yep
Sep 23 14:27:56 <muthu_> oh
Sep 23 14:28:18 <plusminus_> omg...
Sep 23 14:28:24 <umdk1d3> some crazy drum stuff
Sep 23 14:28:43 * umdk1d3 debates starting to cook food, but fears he would miss something
Sep 23 14:28:51 <Dougie187> crank up the sound
Sep 23 14:29:01 <Dougie187> the longer you wait the more likely you will miss something
Sep 23 14:29:07 <plusminus_> you hear that from the stream?
Sep 23 14:29:08 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 14:29:10 <Dougie187> its not very likely that the beginning will have the best stuff
Sep 23 14:29:25 <umdk1d3> truez
Sep 23 14:30:01 <muthu_> some tabla stuff
Sep 23 14:30:04 <umdk1d3> eek! here we goaz
Sep 23 14:30:05 <muthu_> barely audible
Sep 23 14:30:15 <umdk1d3> silence
Sep 23 14:30:35 <km-> think it's about to begin
Sep 23 14:30:39 <plusminus_> damn I see/hear nothing :(
Sep 23 14:30:46 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 23 14:30:50 <yakischloba> uh oh
Sep 23 14:30:58 <yakischloba> rockin out
Sep 23 14:31:40 <jasta> hehe, its on ;)
Sep 23 14:31:45 <yakischloba> you got up huh
Sep 23 14:31:53 <yakischloba> i knew you couldnt resist
Sep 23 14:32:05 <jasta> well, i just woke up anyway
Sep 23 14:32:10 <yakischloba> ;)
Sep 23 14:32:50 <umdk1d3> yay andy
Sep 23 14:33:06 <umdk1d3> HTC!!!!! =D
Sep 23 14:33:28 <pjv> a german yay
Sep 23 14:33:45 <plusminus_> I fucking cant see it ... life sucks !!
Sep 23 14:33:51 <umdk1d3> waaaaat?
Sep 23 14:33:51 <jasta> why not?
Sep 23 14:34:05 <unix_infidel> yikes, exclusive partnership....that's not good.
Sep 23 14:34:12 <km-> europe 4tw
Sep 23 14:34:15 <gambler> plusminus_, oohh hes s hot
Sep 23 14:34:18 <umdk1d3> btw mad props for them having a nice CDN ready and wroking,nto sure how many watchers they have
Sep 23 14:34:19 <gambler> u r missing out
Sep 23 14:34:21 <muthu_> is it at 04:30
Sep 23 14:34:28 <plusminus_> that damn loading screen...
Sep 23 14:35:01 * plusminus_ trying another browser
Sep 23 14:35:06 <umdk1d3> mmm
Sep 23 14:35:12 <muthu_> plusminus_, needs flash 9
Sep 23 14:35:15 * umdk1d3 wants to hear nuclear vessels
Sep 23 14:35:16 <plusminus_> aww crap same
Sep 23 14:35:24 <km-> haha
Sep 23 14:35:30 <km-> he's austrian, not russian
Sep 23 14:35:42 <plusminus_> got 9.0
Sep 23 14:35:44 <davidw> ahahahah I was going to say, he sounds like Ahnuld
Sep 23 14:35:50 <davidw> who is it?
Sep 23 14:35:51 <umdk1d3> aha true
Sep 23 14:36:03 <umdk1d3> deutche telecom higher-up guy
Sep 23 14:36:05 <km-> he's the development manager from deutcshe telekom I think
Sep 23 14:36:10 <pjv> what is he talking about, there isn't even a T-Mobile in my country
Sep 23 14:36:32 <jasta> just show the damn phone! ugh :)
Sep 23 14:36:36 <umdk1d3> lol!
Sep 23 14:36:37 <umdk1d3> same here
Sep 23 14:36:38 <jasta> i dont care about this retard
Sep 23 14:36:39 <yakischloba> yeah honestly
Sep 23 14:36:39 <davidw> "blah blah blah"
Sep 23 14:36:41 <km-> hahaha
Sep 23 14:36:42 <km-> yeah
Sep 23 14:36:43 <yakischloba> fuck this guy
Sep 23 14:36:45 <umdk1d3> hes talking about money
Sep 23 14:36:47 <km-> that was my liveblog in the other irc channel
Sep 23 14:36:49 <km-> "blah blah blah"
Sep 23 14:36:54 <Dougie187> jasta http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobile-g1-first-hands-on/
Sep 23 14:37:02 <km-> woot
Sep 23 14:37:09 <umdk1d3> people who have other rooms should point people this way too  ;)
Sep 23 14:37:12 <umdk1d3> ANDY  =D
Sep 23 14:37:18 <pjv> hes quite ok, just that Tmo wont serve everybody
Sep 23 14:37:32 <tric> pjv: is there a google in your country?
Sep 23 14:37:34 <davidw> I wonder if I can get one in Austria
Sep 23 14:37:44 <muthu_> wow, open mobile internet
Sep 23 14:37:52 <davidw> open?  when, dude
Sep 23 14:38:01 <davidw> nice...kept it short
Sep 23 14:38:25 <km-> is HE going to show us features?
Sep 23 14:38:30 <pjv> tric, there is
Sep 23 14:38:42 <yakischloba> haha
Sep 23 14:38:44 <unix_infidel> HAHA, his name is Andy the Anroid Man!
Sep 23 14:38:49 <km-> haha
Sep 23 14:38:59 <yakischloba> my vote is for morrildl
Sep 23 14:39:15 <gambler> Ill take bachelor #2
Sep 23 14:39:16 <umdk1d3> i think i saw jason chen a few mins ago
Sep 23 14:39:29 <km-> I wonder is SanMehat is there
Sep 23 14:39:39 <umdk1d3> "practical, relevant, and fun"
Sep 23 14:39:40 * yakischloba ping SanMehat 
Sep 23 14:40:03 <mikez5> I'm pretty sure San is in Mountain View
Sep 23 14:40:07 <km-> I'd love to see the numbers on how many people are streaming
Sep 23 14:40:26 <umdk1d3> stream works on linux, so mad props for that lol
Sep 23 14:40:31 <plusminus_> km- subtract me :(
Sep 23 14:40:32 <davidw> Lo Pan: And now, my beloved disciples. The moment of truth... the needle of love.
Sep 23 14:40:39 <ligi> whats the stream url?
Sep 23 14:40:39 <km-> hah
Sep 23 14:40:45 <km-> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 14:40:53 <umdk1d3> "nimble, flexible, powerful" -- on android
Sep 23 14:40:54 <gambler> plusminus_, nothing interesting
Sep 23 14:40:57 <plusminus_> doesnt work with me
Sep 23 14:41:11 <km-> I'm sure the 20 people watching this will liveblog what's happening
Sep 23 14:41:12 <blamannh> Flash Player 10 does not show anything for me
Sep 23 14:41:20 <km-> (20 people in this channel, I mean)
Sep 23 14:41:31 <jasta> so far it has been exclusively rhetoric
Sep 23 14:41:33 * davidw wonders how "liveblogging!!!" is different from "writing about"
Sep 23 14:41:35 <km-> yep
Sep 23 14:41:42 <jasta> nothing at all worth listening to
Sep 23 14:41:46 <yakischloba> haha
Sep 23 14:41:50 <km-> liveblogging is short bites as it happens
Sep 23 14:41:53 <plusminus_> jasta: phew :)
Sep 23 14:41:56 <ligi> km-: thanx
Sep 23 14:42:02 <km-> ligi: np.
Sep 23 14:42:06 <yakischloba> wow
Sep 23 14:42:07 <gambler> lol
Sep 23 14:42:07 <yakischloba> disgusting
Sep 23 14:42:08 <gyudon7> km-: thanx
Sep 23 14:42:16 <yakischloba> overconsume everything lol
Sep 23 14:42:20 <gambler> yakischloba, storyofstuff.com
Sep 23 14:42:34 <muthu_> how long is this?
Sep 23 14:42:34 <loke_> davidw: HEY! don't you know that blogging is very different from writing. Blogging is nothing at all like writing. NOTHING, i tell you NOTHING!
Sep 23 14:42:45 <km-> well, for one thing
Sep 23 14:42:53 <km-> bloggers often don't have to write *proper* english.
Sep 23 14:43:03 <loke_> how could bloggers be cool if they were just mere "writers"? pffft. you people
Sep 23 14:43:06 <km-> lots of personal input, not official writing
Sep 23 14:43:09 <davidw> "blah blah blah"
Sep 23 14:43:11 <km-> YES
Sep 23 14:43:12 <km-> SHOW IT
Sep 23 14:43:14 <yakischloba> ok
Sep 23 14:43:14 <yakischloba> yeah
Sep 23 14:43:15 <km-> YOU MOTHER !@()*%!)*@%()&%
Sep 23 14:43:17 <km-> COME ON.
Sep 23 14:43:19 <jasta> oh, here it is
Sep 23 14:43:21 <bjartek> here it commes
Sep 23 14:43:23 <yakischloba> LOL
Sep 23 14:43:24 <yakischloba> HAHAHA
Sep 23 14:43:24 <jasta> showing stuff
Sep 23 14:43:25 <umdk1d3> NO MORE =D
Sep 23 14:43:26 <blamannh> Blogging is using a Mac to write on the net
Sep 23 14:43:27 <km-> MUAHAHAHAHAHA
Sep 23 14:43:27 <loke_> km: see? you're becoming a blogger already
Sep 23 14:43:30 <plusminus_> :'(
Sep 23 14:43:33 * km- ejaculates.
Sep 23 14:43:41 <km-> wait.  You could stage this
Sep 23 14:43:43 <gambler> oh it has pacman...im buying it
Sep 23 14:43:44 <km-> show someone using it
Sep 23 14:43:45 <loke_> km: just add some stories about your boy/girlfriend and you're all set
Sep 23 14:43:47 <umdk1d3> AMAZON MP3
Sep 23 14:43:47 <gyudon7> wow
Sep 23 14:43:47 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 23 14:43:49 <davidw> did they have to FF it to make it seem fast?
Sep 23 14:44:00 <umdk1d3> AMAZON MP3
Sep 23 14:44:01 <umdk1d3> AMAZON MP3
Sep 23 14:44:10 <loke_> umdk1d3: enough. we read you first time
Sep 23 14:44:14 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 14:44:15 <umdk1d3> :P
Sep 23 14:44:16 <loke_> besides, it's only for us anyway
Sep 23 14:44:19 <loke_> us=US
Sep 23 14:44:32 <loke_> i.e. totally uninteresting
Sep 23 14:44:39 <jasta> hmm
Sep 23 14:44:41 <km-> yes
Sep 23 14:44:44 <km-> everyone take photos
Sep 23 14:44:44 <jasta> this is an awkward moment
Sep 23 14:44:44 <yakischloba> zzz
Sep 23 14:44:47 <yakischloba> yeah
Sep 23 14:44:50 <km-> ok people
Sep 23 14:44:54 <km-> BACK TO GIVING ME PHONEPR0N
Sep 23 14:45:13 <umdk1d3> aww the phones fell asleep lol
Sep 23 14:45:17 <jasta> well, its black at least, ugh :)
Sep 23 14:45:39 <gyudon7> great
Sep 23 14:45:41 <gambler> who wants to take pictures of 4 grown men, 2 of whom look like they have irritable bowel syndrome
Sep 23 14:45:44 <pjv> too many phonecameras now
Sep 23 14:45:47 <davidw> ahahah
Sep 23 14:46:21 <davidw> who's this guy with the CEO hair?
Sep 23 14:46:28 <gambler> the ceo
Sep 23 14:46:33 <km-> CTO I think of tmobile
Sep 23 14:46:40 <jasta> oh lord
Sep 23 14:46:48 <davidw> a GREAT touchscreen
Sep 23 14:46:50 <davidw> cooooool
Sep 23 14:46:55 <davidw> wow, you can looong press
Sep 23 14:47:04 <davidw> this is cheese-o-rific
Sep 23 14:47:04 <km-> I really want multitouch though.
Sep 23 14:47:11 <loke_> km: do you really?
Sep 23 14:47:14 <km-> yeah.
Sep 23 14:47:20 <loke_> km: for what"
Sep 23 14:47:22 <km-> there's no reason why it shouldn't have multitouch
Sep 23 14:47:22 <loke_> ?
Sep 23 14:47:26 <loke_> two-finger scroll I can see
Sep 23 14:47:34 <loke_> but the squeeze on the iphone is just a gimmic
Sep 23 14:47:36 <davidw> km-, patents.
Sep 23 14:47:37 <km-> because it's already implemented in it's competitor
Sep 23 14:47:37 <loke_> not to mention the rotate
Sep 23 14:47:47 <jasta> oh my god, the music player in 0.9r1 is the real player!?
Sep 23 14:47:53 <jasta> *what!?*
Sep 23 14:47:54 <km-> :(
Sep 23 14:48:08 <loke_> jasta: write a better one :-)
Sep 23 14:48:08 <gambler> ding...all those mediaplayers problems were just to keep you behind jasta
Sep 23 14:48:17 * yakischloba holds jasta back from jumping off aurora bridge
Sep 23 14:48:19 <loke_> I give it one week before the first better replacement comes out
Sep 23 14:48:27 <km-> you cant really
Sep 23 14:48:33 <km-> mediaplayer class is pretty limited I think
Sep 23 14:48:48 <loke_> as long as you can play an mp3 you should be set, no?
Sep 23 14:48:52 <loke_> what else do you need?
Sep 23 14:49:01 <jasta> loke_: i did, but it won't work ;)
Sep 23 14:49:06 <km-> I though the MediaPlayer class instantiated that crappy interface
Sep 23 14:49:18 <umdk1d3> wheres the clapping?  :(
Sep 23 14:49:19 <km-> wait, street view works with the accelerometer? hot.
Sep 23 14:49:19 <unix_infidel> i think i just pissed my pants with compass mode.
Sep 23 14:49:28 <km-> yeah
Sep 23 14:49:48 <wastrel> gooooooooooooglephone
Sep 23 14:49:49 <plusminus_> streetview with accelerometer??
Sep 23 14:49:57 <km-> the streetview moves as you move
Sep 23 14:49:59 <km-> turning the picture.
Sep 23 14:50:25 <jasta> im sort of not that impressed actually
Sep 23 14:50:37 <km-> well, it's kinda neat.
Sep 23 14:50:39 <davidw> so when are these things going to come out in europe:-/
Sep 23 14:50:48 <km-> davidw: they said simultaneous release in europe
Sep 23 14:50:49 <jasta> ohh, market
Sep 23 14:50:56 <jasta> thats pretty cool
Sep 23 14:50:59 <davidw> km-, oh...cool, missed that
Sep 23 14:51:08 <loke_> jasta: what do you mean? is there no class to simply play some mp3 audio?
Sep 23 14:51:12 <km-> cmon, show more cool shit
Sep 23 14:51:17 <km-> I have a conference call in 10 mins
Sep 23 14:51:20 <gambler> km-, thats all theyve got
Sep 23 14:51:21 <umdk1d3> yay claps
Sep 23 14:51:24 <jasta> loke_: of course there is, i was scoffing at their music player app in 0.9r1
Sep 23 14:51:28 <jasta> it's not really that good
Sep 23 14:51:36 <jasta> it's usable, but...far cry from the iphone
Sep 23 14:51:40 <umdk1d3> 30mis playing pacman? o.o  /me doubts
Sep 23 14:51:57 <davidw> umdk1d3, sounds better than 'watching pay per view porn'
Sep 23 14:52:00 <gambler> yah that was a joke from his speechwriters
Sep 23 14:52:03 <loke_> jasta: yeah, but my point was that it won't be long until someone makes a killer replacement
Sep 23 14:52:07 <gambler> davidw rofl
Sep 23 14:52:25 <muthu_> nice
Sep 23 14:52:28 <jasta> loke_: well TuneWiki at least looks better than this already
Sep 23 14:52:28 <km-> ok, date please.
Sep 23 14:52:40 <unix_infidel> any word on a 3.5mm jack with req microphone?
Sep 23 14:52:44 <jasta> but if the default is that bad, users will end up just thinking the android phone sucks for media.
Sep 23 14:52:57 <davidw> developer community
Sep 23 14:52:58 <davidw> that's us
Sep 23 14:52:59 <loke_> jasta: is tunewiki available for testing?
Sep 23 14:53:08 <jasta> loke_: i don't think so.
Sep 23 14:53:16 <km-> who's in the video?  Raise their /me!
Sep 23 14:53:19 <jasta> lol, Jeffrey Sharkey?
Sep 23 14:53:26 <umdk1d3> im not in flipping billings  :P
Sep 23 14:53:37 <km-> Gary Pong?
Sep 23 14:53:38 <km-> nice name.
Sep 23 14:53:51 <jasta> these guys are retards
Sep 23 14:54:02 <davidw> km-, wonder what the odds would be that in China, he marries a Mrs Ping
Sep 23 14:54:13 <km-> HAHAHAHA
Sep 23 14:54:18 <km-> Gary Ping-Pong
Sep 23 14:54:26 <km-> or Mrs. Ping-Pong.
Sep 23 14:54:33 <wastrel> so what should i do as an end user to get a feel for whether i want to buy the htc dream?
Sep 23 14:54:35 <umdk1d3> aww be nice  :P
Sep 23 14:54:36 <davidw> km-, would the Ping Pong party please take their seats
Sep 23 14:54:40 <loke_> i have one collegue names Yue Ping
Sep 23 14:54:42 <loke_> named
Sep 23 14:54:45 <loke_> but he's a guy
Sep 23 14:54:56 <davidw> that's ok in california
Sep 23 14:54:56 <km-> Fu King
Sep 23 14:54:58 <gambler> nice
Sep 23 14:55:17 <loke_> there is a hotel here called Tai Hoe Hotel
Sep 23 14:55:18 <km-> ok, following some guy to a car
Sep 23 14:55:24 <bricode> The shroud of secrecy... cute.
Sep 23 14:55:24 <km-> waste.
Sep 23 14:55:29 <jasta> that was really stupid
Sep 23 14:55:30 <loke_> iirc
Sep 23 14:55:56 <davidw> argh...carbon footprint thing?
Sep 23 14:56:06 <davidw> I mean, nice, but...
Sep 23 14:56:11 <km-> ok, carbon footprint, lets talk about HTC's manufacturing plants
Sep 23 14:56:43 <davidw> km-, wonder if the phone comes with its manufacturing and shipping footprint already set
Sep 23 14:56:44 <bricode> km-: You mean, aside from shipping these phones to US and Europe in massive container ships?
Sep 23 14:56:59 <km-> hahaha
Sep 23 14:57:01 <km-> that'd be funny.
Sep 23 14:57:03 <yakischloba> lol
Sep 23 14:57:07 <km-> WAIT
Sep 23 14:57:10 <muthu_> oh, this is gocart
Sep 23 14:57:12 <gdsx> bricode: ships don't have feet, so we're fine on that account
Sep 23 14:57:13 <umdk1d3> whos this guy!?!?
Sep 23 14:57:17 <davidw> bricode, that's actually fairly efficient, all things considered
Sep 23 14:57:18 <km-> GIVE ME A RELEASE DATE YOU MOTHER FUCKERS
Sep 23 14:57:19 <km-> UGH.
Sep 23 14:57:26 <yakischloba> I want to know how much it costs and when I can get it
Sep 23 14:57:28 <davidw> dilbert
Sep 23 14:57:30 <gambler> Its MUBUTU
Sep 23 14:57:31 <yakischloba> i don't  care about the rest of this shit
Sep 23 14:57:33 <jasta> im bored with this nonsense
Sep 23 14:57:35 <yakischloba> there we go
Sep 23 14:57:36 <gdsx> boom
Sep 23 14:57:37 <umdk1d3> PRICING  =D
Sep 23 14:57:40 <km-> woot
Sep 23 14:57:41 <yakischloba> NICE
Sep 23 14:57:42 <davidw> 179
Sep 23 14:57:43 <umdk1d3> $179 =D
Sep 23 14:57:45 <km-> OOH
Sep 23 14:57:47 <km-> order online
Sep 23 14:57:47 <davidw> sweet
Sep 23 14:57:51 * km- orgasms
Sep 23 14:57:59 <km-> BOO
Sep 23 14:58:00 <umdk1d3> OCT 22
Sep 23 14:58:00 <km-> october 22nd
Sep 23 14:58:12 <davidw> so are they locked to t-mobile or what?
Sep 23 14:58:15 <km-> probably
Sep 23 14:58:30 <yakischloba> nice
Sep 23 14:58:34 <km-> 35$ unlimited messaging and web good for me
Sep 23 14:58:34 <umdk1d3> two data plans, $25/mo unlim web+limited msg,  $35/mo unlim web+msging
Sep 23 14:58:44 <km-> ok, I have a conference call
Sep 23 14:58:46 <km-> enjoy guys
Sep 23 14:58:57 <jasta> umdk1d3: that's more expensive than t-mobile's normal pricing, btw.
Sep 23 14:59:03 <umdk1d3> ouch  :/
Sep 23 14:59:06 <yakischloba> lol
Sep 23 14:59:15 <jasta> and just about as expensive as the iphone.  more expensive than other devices on other carriers.
Sep 23 14:59:15 <loke_> is unlimited really "unlimiterd"?
Sep 23 14:59:20 <muthu_> did he say market is oct 23
Sep 23 14:59:21 <umdk1d3> EUROPE
Sep 23 14:59:40 <umdk1d3> UK EARLY NOVEMBER
Sep 23 14:59:41 <davidw> fuck
Sep 23 14:59:41 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 23 14:59:42 * bricode wonders how much/when it will arrive in Canuckistan
Sep 23 14:59:42 <jasta> UK, early Nov, across Europe, Q1 2009
Sep 23 14:59:48 <davidw> europe, first quarter 2009
Sep 23 14:59:59 <davidw> open source in november? did I hear that right?
Sep 23 15:00:10 * km- goes to t-mobile.com to see if he can preorder
Sep 23 15:00:15 <tethridge> I thought he said october
Sep 23 15:00:33 <aliases123> hat do you mean open source in november
Sep 23 15:00:39 <pjv> Q1 2009 sounds great for me
Sep 23 15:00:44 <muthu_> opensource in october
Sep 23 15:00:49 <aliases123> isn't there a few gpl licenses to respect.
Sep 23 15:01:10 <davidw> aliases123, no.  search the web for that old debate.
Sep 23 15:01:17 <pjv> I was expecting 1.0 today though (and opensource over a few days)
Sep 23 15:01:21 <umdk1d3> "will it function as teathered mobem, and possible for just data plan"
Sep 23 15:01:21 <jasta> ohh nice, ask about tethered modems
Sep 23 15:01:23 <aliases123> davidw: are you kidding me ? what is the given reason ?
Sep 23 15:01:32 <davidw> aliases123, because they wrote the code.
Sep 23 15:01:36 <jasta> _NO_ tethering support.
Sep 23 15:01:38 <aliases123> which part ?
Sep 23 15:01:41 <yakischloba> we'll hack tethering
Sep 23 15:01:42 <aliases123> the linux kernel no.
Sep 23 15:01:51 <jham_> aliases123: It's available at http://code.google.com/p/android/downloads/list
Sep 23 15:01:53 <jasta> good questions :)
Sep 23 15:01:56 <davidw> aliases123, you can get the kernel sources...stfw, dude:-)
Sep 23 15:02:04 <aliases123> ok i'm happy.
Sep 23 15:02:09 <umdk1d3> ouch no exchabnge  :/
Sep 23 15:02:17 <yakischloba> locking....?
Sep 23 15:02:20 <jasta> of course no exchange
Sep 23 15:02:24 <yakischloba> hah
Sep 23 15:02:25 <yakischloba> yes
Sep 23 15:02:27 <davidw> simlocked
Sep 23 15:02:28 <umdk1d3> it will be simlocked  :/
Sep 23 15:02:29 <yakischloba> locked to tmobile
Sep 23 15:02:31 <davidw> fuck
Sep 23 15:02:36 <jasta> are any of you surprised?  really?
Sep 23 15:02:41 <aliases123> jham_: why not ? doesn't evolution have support for that.
Sep 23 15:03:03 <gambler> these are decent questions
Sep 23 15:03:06 <davidw> jasta, no, but still... one can hope
Sep 23 15:03:07 <jasta> people in the audience are asking awesome questions
Sep 23 15:03:11 <davidw> maybe someone will be able to hack it
Sep 23 15:03:32 <jasta> so, no desktop program to do syncing.  that seems weird.  how the hell do you put music on it?
Sep 23 15:03:42 <jasta> maybe its just a usb mass storage?
Sep 23 15:03:45 <umdk1d3> WIFI  =D
Sep 23 15:03:57 <gambler> so simlocking means I cant use it in australia is that right?
Sep 23 15:04:05 <aliases123> oh damn i don't have flash.
Sep 23 15:04:08 <km-> there'll be a hack I'm sure.
Sep 23 15:04:10 <tethridge> usb mass storage would be nice
Sep 23 15:04:11 <km-> pwnagetool :)
Sep 23 15:04:17 <aliases123> gambler: eta on hack 3 days.
Sep 23 15:04:39 <umdk1d3> hahahaha
Sep 23 15:04:45 <umdk1d3> he said "with the device you mentioned"
Sep 23 15:04:48 <aliases123> etaoh 3days. (estimated time arrival of hack)
Sep 23 15:04:50 <umdk1d3> the word iphone is taboo  rofl
Sep 23 15:04:59 <yakischloba> yeah
Sep 23 15:05:13 <aliases123> some one want to vlc cast it to those without flash ?
Sep 23 15:05:25 <tethridge> you don't have flash?
Sep 23 15:05:34 <aliases123> its non-free
Sep 23 15:05:36 <aliases123> so no.
Sep 23 15:05:52 <tethridge> gnash
Sep 23 15:06:12 <aliases123> swf-dec actually which site is this atm ?
Sep 23 15:06:23 <umdk1d3> ouch no a2dp  :/
Sep 23 15:06:26 <aliases123> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 15:06:29 <aliases123> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 15:06:32 <aliases123> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 15:06:35 <aliases123> http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 15:06:36 <jasta> shut up
Sep 23 15:06:39 <umdk1d3> ...
Sep 23 15:06:39 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 15:06:51 <aliases123> it didn't work before oh oops sorry
Sep 23 15:07:08 <jasta> lots and lots of good questions, im very surprised
Sep 23 15:07:09 <aliases123> i was scrolling up and didn't think it was copying. really really sorry about that.
Sep 23 15:08:07 <jasta> this thing is gonna need massive third party work.
Sep 23 15:08:13 <jasta> *massive*
Sep 23 15:08:36 <jasta> they failed on a lot of basic deliverables here...
Sep 23 15:08:56 <plusminus_> go five !
Sep 23 15:09:16 <jasta> yeah right, five won't even be coming out for quite some time.  the packetvideo core is entirely too fucked up
Sep 23 15:09:18 <umdk1d3> "does it work with itunes"
Sep 23 15:09:21 <umdk1d3> lol, theres my cue  ;)
Sep 23 15:09:36 <umdk1d3> answer the drm question
Sep 23 15:09:40 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 23 15:09:49 <umdk1d3> has to be non-drm music
Sep 23 15:10:07 <wastrel> hi
Sep 23 15:10:13 <wastrel> so it's a trainwreck eh
Sep 23 15:10:31 <umdk1d3> sergey
Sep 23 15:10:33 <aliases123> nar. hardly. its just a prototype. the google maps sounds mad.
Sep 23 15:10:55 <tethridge> rich bastards!! :-)
Sep 23 15:11:04 <muthu_> lol
Sep 23 15:11:13 <tethridge> ya think
Sep 23 15:11:20 <tethridge> a little bit of a geek
Sep 23 15:11:43 <wastrel> when's US availability?
Sep 23 15:11:48 <jasta> oct 22
Sep 23 15:11:48 <fluteflute> google transit launch on the same day - presumably so android can use the new service
Sep 23 15:11:51 <ligi> "for a while now" ^^
Sep 23 15:12:03 <loke_> we still haven't heard anything on it being available from HTC without going through a carrier. Although I strongly doubt that tmobile would announce that on their event :-)
Sep 23 15:12:19 <jasta> thats a funny app :)
Sep 23 15:12:27 <jasta> test how high you can throw your phone to get high scores
Sep 23 15:12:29 <wastrel> what's google transit?
Sep 23 15:12:37 <jasta> if you networked it with online high scores, oh man :)
Sep 23 15:12:45 <cathyal> accelerometer?
Sep 23 15:12:46 <cathyal> hah
Sep 23 15:12:48 <cathyal> thts a nice one
Sep 23 15:13:14 <cathyal> yeah jasonchen
Sep 23 15:13:16 <cathyal> jasta
Sep 23 15:13:16 <cathyal> heh
Sep 23 15:13:29 <fluteflute> wastrel: public transport directions
Sep 23 15:13:59 <tethridge> some jerk with an iphone will pop up and say I'm done
Sep 23 15:13:59 <cathyal> whats with large page and sergei on rollerskates
Sep 23 15:14:02 <cathyal> thats a big lol
Sep 23 15:14:03 <wastrel> oh fancy.  i have the subway map on my palm tx
Sep 23 15:14:31 <cathyal> larry*
Sep 23 15:15:19 <wastrel> i want to sync with my computer
Sep 23 15:15:39 <fluteflute> transit fits into schedules as well
Sep 23 15:15:39 <jasta> well then dont buy an android phone :P
Sep 23 15:15:44 <muthu_> cool guys
Sep 23 15:15:47 <wastrel> or write a sync app :p
Sep 23 15:15:59 <umdk1d3> nobody asked how you would connect to internal storage
Sep 23 15:16:16 <zhobbs> sync'ing is so 1990
Sep 23 15:16:19 <umdk1d3> aww its over  :/
Sep 23 15:16:30 <wastrel> palm tx :]
Sep 23 15:16:31 <aliases123> wastrel: neat subway map
Sep 23 15:16:33 <umdk1d3> "do you need a ramp or do you need stairs?"
Sep 23 15:16:33 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 15:16:34 <muthu_> done!
Sep 23 15:16:40 <zhobbs> I don't want to sync, I want to be in sync always
Sep 23 15:16:41 <gambler> meh
Sep 23 15:17:01 <gambler> good comment zhobbs
Sep 23 15:17:15 <jasta> zhobbs: well, what about loading music onto the phone?  what if you want to load some flacs on there and have the sync program just automagically convert them for you?
Sep 23 15:17:16 <aliases123> 3g + rsync
Sep 23 15:17:21 * umdk1d3 pounds server to see new pages
Sep 23 15:17:29 <wastrel> always in sync but locked in to certain interfaces to your data
Sep 23 15:17:35 <muthu_> zhobbs, is tunewiki the default player?
Sep 23 15:17:50 <wastrel> how about pdf support?
Sep 23 15:17:51 <zhobbs> muthu_: no
Sep 23 15:18:02 <jasta> wastrel: he said pdf support and word doc viewing was in there.
Sep 23 15:18:34 <umdk1d3> that might have been through google docs tho
Sep 23 15:18:40 <umdk1d3> he didnt say if it was an onboard app
Sep 23 15:18:44 <wastrel> word feh
Sep 23 15:18:50 <aliases123> jasta: no writing ?
Sep 23 15:19:03 <jasta> no
Sep 23 15:19:07 <aliases123> pft my phone can do that.
Sep 23 15:19:20 <wastrel> i'm getting the idea they want to push stuff over the data channel as much as possible
Sep 23 15:19:21 <zhobbs> jasta: I'm sure there's cases that make sense, but I doubt I'll run into any
Sep 23 15:19:25 <umdk1d3> well /me goes to make foodage
Sep 23 15:19:30 <wastrel> rather than having things go via cable or wifi
Sep 23 15:19:30 <plusminus_> stream is over now ?
Sep 23 15:19:35 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: yea
Sep 23 15:19:47 <umdk1d3> waiting for full site to be uploaded and go live
Sep 23 15:20:15 <aliases123> mmmm wget munchies
Sep 23 15:20:18 <jasta> zhobbs: well, what about simplifying the experience of loading music for regular jo users?  they won't know that they need to drag and drop them into the storage card from a usb mass storage interface on their machine
Sep 23 15:20:19 <aliases123> wget -r anyone ?
Sep 23 15:20:56 <zhobbs> jasta: yeah, that's what people keep telling me...but I always thought it'd be easier to drag/drop than use itunes
Sep 23 15:21:21 <jasta> zhobbs: i think this is a bad move on Google's part.  users have never seen anything like this before for syncing music to devices.
Sep 23 15:21:30 <jasta> and it's gonna feel like a big step back for them, i assure you
Sep 23 15:22:03 <zhobbs> jasta: we're considering a songbird plugin
Sep 23 15:22:26 <gambler> the entire interface is very nerd oriented...android will appeal to tinkerers moreso than regular joes
Sep 23 15:22:51 <jasta> gambler: yeah, i have that same conclusion at this point
Sep 23 15:23:01 <jasta> the "last 10%" just isn't there...
Sep 23 15:23:20 <jasta> but wahtever, no new surprises revealed here today
Sep 23 15:23:22 <jasta> im off to work
Sep 23 15:23:24 <zhobbs> I'm excited, I think it's going to be a good product
Sep 23 15:23:35 <aliases123> jasta: that's not true
Sep 23 15:23:41 <plusminus_> no real specs revealed, right?
Sep 23 15:23:55 <wastrel> i am not a tinkerer as such but i like to do things that regular people don't
Sep 23 15:23:56 <aliases123> there have been tons of players that are just drag and drop.
Sep 23 15:23:58 <zhobbs> plusminus_: yeah, a pretty poor press conference
Sep 23 15:24:03 <wastrel> i don't need music playing for instance
Sep 23 15:24:12 <wastrel> but i do want to be able to ssh
Sep 23 15:24:13 <loke_> ugh... HTC us site shows "tmobile exclusive". No mention on it on the taiwanese nor the singapore sites
Sep 23 15:24:19 <loke_> doesn't look good :-(
Sep 23 15:27:26 <aliases123> pft looks fine. just give it some time.
Sep 23 15:27:43 <loke_> I hope you're right
Sep 23 15:29:48 <umdk1d3> lol pcjjman
Sep 23 15:29:53 <umdk1d3> sneaky  :P
Sep 23 15:29:59 <plusminus_> htc also shows nothign about gps...
Sep 23 15:30:08 <yakischloba> oh yeah
Sep 23 15:30:10 <yakischloba> is there no gps?..
Sep 23 15:30:12 <umdk1d3> we see a gps icon in the latest panoramio app tho
Sep 23 15:30:15 <plusminus_> why are they all hiding???
Sep 23 15:30:55 <umdk1d3> doh failsite fails at providing details  :/
Sep 23 15:31:24 <plusminus_> ^^
Sep 23 15:32:36 <ulmen> i think i'll hold my cheers for some other android handset, no with contract only/simlock/other crap for me
Sep 23 15:33:13 <umdk1d3> well you look at wow factors, and there arent many left that a hardware manuf coudl take advantage of
Sep 23 15:33:17 <umdk1d3> compass was the last big one
Sep 23 15:33:29 <umdk1d3> and the sdk doesnt reall yprovide multitouch events
Sep 23 15:33:40 <umdk1d3> so even if someone licensed it, it might be hard to hack into 1.0
Sep 23 15:34:06 <pjv> hm, all the live stuff has stopped, whats going on?, we home viewers are in the dark here
Sep 23 15:34:13 <umdk1d3> pjv: yea same here
Sep 23 15:34:27 <umdk1d3> i think someone needs to make the call that says "go live with full site"
Sep 23 15:34:57 <muthu_> multitouch is the biggest letdown
Sep 23 15:36:54 <spykid> 1.0 SDK :D
Sep 23 15:37:04 <spykid> http://www.android.com/timeline.html
Sep 23 15:37:41 <muthu_> woah!
Sep 23 15:37:50 <pjv> as I understand it the microSD slot can't take anything >8GB?, so we will never have 16GB
Sep 23 15:38:01 <plusminus_> :-D
Sep 23 15:38:16 <umdk1d3> ooh!  pretty new site
Sep 23 15:38:26 <cbeust> Some of us use 16GB cards without any problem
Sep 23 15:38:39 <pjv> heh the timeline says October 22
Sep 23 15:39:04 <mikez5> It has only been tested with 8 gig, but it supports SDHC so it should work with larger cards too.
Sep 23 15:39:09 <muthu_> today is sdk1.0?
Sep 23 15:39:12 <plusminus_> where is the sdk 1.0 :(
Sep 23 15:39:15 <plusminus_> ^^
Sep 23 15:39:21 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 15:39:26 <umdk1d3> yea they linked to it
Sep 23 15:39:42 <spykid> it's not up yet, but there is a date and a link
Sep 23 15:39:58 <spykid> oh and they say compatible :D
Sep 23 15:40:42 <pjv> oh I see: SD 2.0 == SDHC
Sep 23 15:41:31 <SanMehat> morning
Sep 23 15:42:12 <umdk1d3> morn SanMehat
Sep 23 15:42:27 * umdk1d3 kicks tmob to get their site live
Sep 23 15:43:02 <spykid> http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/overview.html
Sep 23 15:43:11 <pjv> hmm I prefer the white one: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628
Sep 23 15:44:53 <umdk1d3> wtf?
Sep 23 15:44:54 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 15:44:59 <aliases123> get your linux ready, cuz here comes andriod !
Sep 23 15:45:18 <umdk1d3> "the friendly feel of Google, only funnerer, smarterer, and connecteder"
Sep 23 15:45:24 <umdk1d3> slide 5 on the htc page
Sep 23 15:45:39 <wastrel> i have linux
Sep 23 15:46:02 <aliases123> is it $179 locked on a plan this phone ?
Sep 23 15:46:07 <yakischloba> i'm sure it is
Sep 23 15:46:47 <aliases123> bah. i have to paid for it to be hacked or some one in australia to release it then.
Sep 23 15:48:20 <jasta> t-mobile's network, btw, is the worst in the US.  for anyone who didn't already know ;)
Sep 23 15:48:29 <umdk1d3> ...
Sep 23 15:48:44 <yakischloba> heh
Sep 23 15:48:46 <umdk1d3> what makes it "worst" iyho?
Sep 23 15:48:56 <SanMehat> wow jasta is back
Sep 23 15:48:57 <yakischloba> hurray for living in metropolitan seattle
Sep 23 15:49:00 <jasta> umdk1d3: it has the weakest coverage across the US.  this is a fact ;)
Sep 23 15:49:11 <umdk1d3> jasta: is that tmobiles fault, or gsm in general?
Sep 23 15:49:29 <pjv> thank god, it has GPS
Sep 23 15:49:31 <jasta> umdk1d3: t-mobile.  the roaming agreements are not what you think they are :)
Sep 23 15:49:37 <aliases123> rofl of course it has gps.
Sep 23 15:49:55 <jasta> umdk1d3: i use at&t, which is operated over gsm.
Sep 23 15:51:03 <jasta> people only sign up with t-mobile when they want to save money rather than be able to use their phone reliably :)
Sep 23 15:51:07 <aliases123> but does it have xmpp ?
Sep 23 15:51:37 <umdk1d3> jasta: i also have sucky at=t
Sep 23 15:51:44 * umdk1d3 shudders
Sep 23 15:52:16 <umdk1d3> ooh nice pdf manual  http://www.talkandroid.com/android-forums/t-mobile/180-t-mobile-g1-product-service-guide.html
Sep 23 15:52:52 <umdk1d3> 1gb card included
Sep 23 15:53:16 <umdk1d3> ummmm why did they checkmark the iphone 3g as having vidoe capture?
Sep 23 15:54:31 <gambler> no video capture :(
Sep 23 15:55:43 <gdsx> you all might be interested in: http://walt.allthingsd.com/
Sep 23 15:55:59 <unix_infidel> is voice required?
Sep 23 15:56:18 <gyudon7> caputure image uploaded :) http://businessmanstudent.wordpress.com/
Sep 23 15:57:35 <umdk1d3> unix_infidel: yea voice service plan is reqd
Sep 23 15:58:28 <umdk1d3> interesting
Sep 23 15:58:29 <umdk1d3> "Billing for Android Market applications is
Sep 23 15:58:29 <umdk1d3> handled through the site and not T-Mobile.
Sep 23 15:58:40 <umdk1d3> so it wont be billed to customers plans  :/   @ Market apps
Sep 23 15:58:49 <umdk1d3> i suppose they link up their google checkout account tho
Sep 23 15:59:04 <pjv> I find the HTC site really great
Sep 23 15:59:30 <unix_infidel> yea, it looks like there are a hundered ways this could go bad.  probably not enough for me to not buy one of the phones coming out.
Sep 23 16:00:17 <umdk1d3> yay site is live http://t-mobileg1.com/
Sep 23 16:06:33 <tethridge> I'm curious if you can set any song to be a ring tone
Sep 23 16:06:57 <SanMehat> tethridge: yes you can.
Sep 23 16:07:10 <tethridge> that's nice
Sep 23 16:07:16 <tethridge> ring tones are such a rip off
Sep 23 16:08:05 <umdk1d3> everybody dont forget to digg it up  http://digg.com/search/page?s=android&area=dig&type=both&search-buried=0&sort=new&section=all
Sep 23 16:10:02 <Miek> i wonder if it's possible to just have a ringtone that rings :p
Sep 23 16:10:14 <SanMehat> Miek: Yes it is :)
Sep 23 16:10:57 <umdk1d3> lol /me reminded of xkcd
Sep 23 16:12:51 <unix_infidel> i wonder if there's a shell / ssh application by default :-P
Sep 23 16:13:30 <Miek> there's http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/
Sep 23 16:13:53 <unix_infidel> yea, was expecting 3rd party.
Sep 23 16:13:58 <umdk1d3> lol market is in "beta" in engadget screenshots
Sep 23 16:14:45 <unix_infidel> lol, first screenshot of connectbot is irssi connected to #android.
Sep 23 16:15:25 <umdk1d3> ^.^
Sep 23 16:17:31 <heat> yawn
Sep 23 16:17:51 <muthu_> shopsavvy is gocart?
Sep 23 16:18:09 <unix_infidel> yea, rylan, jason, and alex were in the announcement video this morning.
Sep 23 16:18:13 <muthu_> only breadcrumbz and ecorio got into android market
Sep 23 16:18:32 <muthu_> ok then gocart
Sep 23 16:18:51 <tethridge> is there a link to android market where you can browse?
Sep 23 16:18:53 <umdk1d3> they used the zxing logo  :P
Sep 23 16:19:08 <umdk1d3> tethridge: i think were sholder surfing some of the gallerys
Sep 23 16:19:42 <unix_infidel> http://flickr.com/photos/alexmuse/2879389577/
Sep 23 16:19:48 <unix_infidel> potentially new logo.
Sep 23 16:19:58 <jasta> i must admit i really like the 3mp camera feature.  having a good camera is really nice
Sep 23 16:20:36 <loke__> jasta: question is... is the optics good?
Sep 23 16:20:43 <jasta> probably not
Sep 23 16:20:45 <jasta> :\
Sep 23 16:20:52 <loke__> the 5 mp camera in the N95 has remarkably good optics for a mobile phone
Sep 23 16:20:56 <umdk1d3> gah cmon 1.0 sdk
Sep 23 16:21:13 <umdk1d3> jasta: i saw somewhere it said focus builtin
Sep 23 16:21:25 <umdk1d3> so should be better quality than fixed-focus cameras
Sep 23 16:21:26 <loke__> umdk1d3: that's pretty cool
Sep 23 16:21:47 <umdk1d3> deffy not a dslr tho lol
Sep 23 16:22:01 * umdk1d3 thumps refresh on android-developers blog
Sep 23 16:22:08 <muthu_> tethridge, android.com
Sep 23 16:22:23 <loke__> Doesn't stop the iphone... http://www.tuaw.com/2008/08/18/give-your-iphone-3g-a-telephoto-lens/
Sep 23 16:22:36 <jasta> at least seattle is being covered by t-mobile's 3g expansion :(
Sep 23 16:22:43 <umdk1d3> loke__: roooooofl
Sep 23 16:22:44 <jasta> err :\
Sep 23 16:22:47 <yakischloba> hurrah.
Sep 23 16:23:02 <umdk1d3> lol @ SanMehat   =D
Sep 23 16:23:06 <SanMehat> :)
Sep 23 16:23:25 * umdk1d3 wonders what yummy things 1.0 will give us axx to
Sep 23 16:23:35 <jasta> uhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Sep 23 16:23:36 <jasta> guys
Sep 23 16:23:41 <umdk1d3> one thing not on the timeline is when they will open the market setup
Sep 23 16:23:43 <jasta> http://t-mobileg1.com/3G.aspx
Sep 23 16:23:53 <jasta> read the footnote at the bottom.
Sep 23 16:24:05 <umdk1d3> wtf!?!?!  "If your total data usage in any billing cycle is more than 1GB, your data throughput for the remainder of that cycle may be reduced to 50 kbps or less."
Sep 23 16:24:05 <yakischloba> that sucks balls
Sep 23 16:24:15 <umdk1d3> well it does say *may*
Sep 23 16:24:29 <umdk1d3> "Some downloads, such as movies, music, and games, not included. "
Sep 23 16:24:38 <jasta> umdk1d3: not only that, but if your usage is deemed to interfere with their network, then you can be shut off completely
Sep 23 16:24:40 <umdk1d3> which means you can use their walled garden stuff without worry  :/
Sep 23 16:24:47 <yakischloba> well
Sep 23 16:24:53 <yakischloba> we're just waiting for someone to unlock it
Sep 23 16:24:56 <heat> have you guys read verizon's "unlimited" data footnote?
Sep 23 16:24:56 <yakischloba> how hard can it be
Sep 23 16:25:03 <yakischloba> heat, yes :/
Sep 23 16:25:04 <umdk1d3> at least verizon is 5gb right?
Sep 23 16:25:12 <heat> yeah, that's for their data card
Sep 23 16:25:13 <yakischloba> yeah other carriers are 5gb..
Sep 23 16:25:15 <heat> for phones, its less
Sep 23 16:25:15 <jasta> yeah, 1GB is a practical ceiling.
Sep 23 16:25:25 <jasta> ive hit over 2GB on AT&T several times
Sep 23 16:25:33 <umdk1d3> jasta: with an iphone, or older device?
Sep 23 16:25:37 <jasta> older device
Sep 23 16:25:40 <heat> with phone or data card?
Sep 23 16:25:43 <jasta> phone
Sep 23 16:25:53 <umdk1d3> which prolly means power users on a newer device could eat more
Sep 23 16:25:55 <heat> heh.. stop watching porn you pervert
Sep 23 16:25:59 <umdk1d3> =O
Sep 23 16:26:01 <jasta> i download my music over the web a lot, just like what five is supposed to do
Sep 23 16:26:04 <umdk1d3> its not bad cuz it has wifi
Sep 23 16:26:05 <heat> trues
Sep 23 16:26:16 <jasta> let's see how many songs i am limited to a month now...
Sep 23 16:26:28 <umdk1d3> i will say one thing
Sep 23 16:26:36 <heat> i wonder if its going to be enforced
Sep 23 16:26:36 <umdk1d3> i was blown away excited to see amazon mp3 store
Sep 23 16:26:38 <jasta> at 4MB files, i get 250 songs a month.
Sep 23 16:26:47 <umdk1d3> giving users easy access to drm-free mp3  =D
Sep 23 16:26:49 <yakischloba> unlock that shit
Sep 23 16:26:50 <jasta> excluding other services
Sep 23 16:27:04 <heat> or if they just throw it up there so that they can do it for serious "abusers"
Sep 23 16:27:23 <jasta> umdk1d3: my concern is that the files downloaded through amazon will be drm'd.
Sep 23 16:27:25 <umdk1d3> ouch yea live-video is gonna be tough  :/
Sep 23 16:27:38 <umdk1d3> jasta: howso, their entire store is drm-free and prides itself on that
Sep 23 16:27:40 <heat> jasta: amazon sells straight laced mp3s doesn't it?
Sep 23 16:27:42 <_avatar> jasta: no, they are drm free
Sep 23 16:27:45 <SanMehat> jasta: its DRM free.
Sep 23 16:27:46 <SanMehat> relax.
Sep 23 16:27:52 <tethridge> copy & paste.  nice
Sep 23 16:27:55 <umdk1d3> <3 drm-free yumminess
Sep 23 16:27:58 <jasta> SanMehat: so it just writes an mp3 to the storage card?
Sep 23 16:28:02 <SanMehat> yup
Sep 23 16:28:03 <heat> <nod>
Sep 23 16:28:05 <_avatar> jasta: yup
Sep 23 16:28:06 <jasta> that's pretty cool.  five could use that, then.
Sep 23 16:28:21 <umdk1d3> looks like there are intents to launch into other music providers too
Sep 23 16:28:23 <jasta> does it have id3 data in it?  is it easily absorbed elsewhere?
Sep 23 16:28:24 <umdk1d3> *from the onboard player
Sep 23 16:28:26 <heat> five is outdated.. I hear ten is the new rave
Sep 23 16:28:30 <umdk1d3> jasta: yep id3
Sep 23 16:28:32 <_avatar> jasta: good id3 data, also album art
Sep 23 16:28:37 <jham_> DRM free music direct to the phone rocks
Sep 23 16:28:39 <jasta> nice.  ok, well that's really cool
Sep 23 16:28:58 * jasta has plans to make Five aware of "existing" music files on the storage card
Sep 23 16:29:05 <jasta> traditional content
Sep 23 16:29:18 <yakischloba> ruh roh
Sep 23 16:29:29 <umdk1d3> lol one more "."
Sep 23 16:29:42 <tethridge> jasta, download their "amazon downloader" client.  They give you a free song.  You can see the quality.
Sep 23 16:29:45 <umdk1d3> who brokez teh build??  :P
Sep 23 16:29:48 <mikez5> The amazon MP3s will be accessible in the media content provider
Sep 23 16:29:48 <heat> SanMehat is probably constipated and is waiting to take a crap
Sep 23 16:30:05 <umdk1d3> mikez5: niiiiiiice
Sep 23 16:30:52 <jham_> Demos: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8D19D01A9F4AA199
Sep 23 16:31:05 * umdk1d3 goes to prep eclipse for upgrade
Sep 23 16:31:28 <umdk1d3> jham_: excellent find  ^.^
Sep 23 16:32:40 * umdk1d3 adds another "." to topic
Sep 23 16:33:36 <unix_infidel> "One thing I like about Android... Copy & Paste. Watch Android team members talk about their favorite features."
Sep 23 16:35:10 <jham_> Demos for developers: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=611F8C5DBF49CEC6
Sep 23 16:37:19 <muthu_> liked the way sergey and larry just let others do the talking
Sep 23 16:38:18 <erus`> wers the damn 1.0 sdkl?
Sep 23 16:38:18 <unix_infidel> lol
Sep 23 16:38:25 <umdk1d3> :P
Sep 23 16:38:39 <jham_> erus`: See the topic
Sep 23 16:39:04 <erus`> is there an svn for sdk
Sep 23 16:39:16 <erus`> i dont like having to keep deleting the folder and replacing
Sep 23 16:44:07 <dmoffett> Just use sym links.
Sep 23 16:46:21 <umdk1d3> gah, my 2tb raid is full  :'(
Sep 23 16:46:38 <umdk1d3> mythtv isnt cleaning stuff up like it should
Sep 23 16:46:52 <jasta> umdk1d3: //apollo/data         1.1T  788G  331G  71% /data
Sep 23 16:46:53 <jasta> ;)
Sep 23 16:49:30 <umdk1d3> jasta: is that samba?
Sep 23 16:49:34 * umdk1d3 uses nfs
Sep 23 16:52:27 <jasta> i use samba, yes.
Sep 23 16:52:32 <jasta> nfs is tragically insecure
Sep 23 16:52:43 <jasta> and not featureful, useful, or efficient :)
Sep 23 16:53:06 <SanMehat> uh huh.
Sep 23 16:53:13 <umdk1d3> ooh!!
Sep 23 16:53:17 <lesceil> jasta: but ubiquitous
Sep 23 16:53:18 <umdk1d3> new eclipse plugin  https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml
Sep 23 16:53:51 <umdk1d3> i agree on the insecure, but isnt it faster than samba in some cases?
Sep 23 16:53:53 <lesceil> jasta: and likely more tested in multi-TB environments than samba
Sep 23 16:54:04 <lesceil> which means less likelyhood of data corruption
Sep 23 16:55:13 <umdk1d3> looool @ topic
Sep 23 16:55:51 <umdk1d3> AHA!!!!
Sep 23 16:55:52 <umdk1d3> http://dl.google.com/android/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1.zip
Sep 23 16:55:56 * umdk1d3 WINZ  =D
Sep 23 16:56:03 <erus`> finaly
Sep 23 16:56:18 <umdk1d3> its not publicly announced yet
Sep 23 16:56:26 * umdk1d3 guessed at url ;)
Sep 23 16:56:41 <erus`> lol
Sep 23 16:57:13 <umdk1d3> wget 20% done  ^.^
Sep 23 16:57:30 <ANTRat> 50
Sep 23 16:57:38 <umdk1d3> doh  :P
Sep 23 16:57:42 <tethridge> is romainguy in this video?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aUjukCdPyQ&feature=PlayList&p=611F8C5DBF49CEC6&index=0
Sep 23 16:57:49 <umdk1d3> tethridge: i think it is
Sep 23 16:57:53 <tethridge> I've seen two demos where they mention him
Sep 23 16:57:54 <umdk1d3> hes showing off his bookshelf app
Sep 23 16:58:05 <tethridge> that's a cool app
Sep 23 16:58:16 <tethridge> plus I like the ring tone picker extension
Sep 23 16:58:19 <erus`> im porting a nes emulator
Sep 23 16:58:25 <tethridge> I wonder if they will include those in the market place
Sep 23 16:58:29 <erus`> gameboy*
Sep 23 16:58:53 * umdk1d3 eeks to 50% done
Sep 23 16:59:08 <erus`>  market place isnt the only way to get software onto phone right?
Sep 23 16:59:15 <erus`> 52%
Sep 23 16:59:18 <SanMehat> erus`: correct
Sep 23 16:59:21 <umdk1d3> erus`: you can still adb install it i suppose
Sep 23 16:59:31 <umdk1d3> SanMehat: i found ur linkz  ^.^
Sep 23 16:59:51 <erus`> cani ssh into my g1?
Sep 23 16:59:54 <SanMehat> umdk1d3: i just write codez.. i'm nawt teh web guy
Sep 23 16:59:56 <SanMehat> :)
Sep 23 16:59:59 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 17:00:00 <erus`> can i ssh into emulator?
Sep 23 17:00:09 <umdk1d3> erus`: you can adb shell into the emulator
Sep 23 17:00:16 <umdk1d3> however i think they /wont/ give you root axx on a device
Sep 23 17:00:36 <ANTRat> silly release_notes.txt, telling me to go to the website, which still has 0.9
Sep 23 17:00:47 <erus`> lol < 1 day before thats cracked
Sep 23 17:00:47 <umdk1d3> :P
Sep 23 17:01:53 <umdk1d3> yay 1.0 sdk downloaded /me goes to install  =D
Sep 23 17:01:54 <erus`> is there an updated eclipse plugin?
Sep 23 17:02:14 <ANTRat> docs/RELEASENOTES.html has 1.0 info tho
Sep 23 17:02:26 <umdk1d3> erus`: it appears to already be live on the remote site
Sep 23 17:02:30 <umdk1d3> https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml
Sep 23 17:02:35 <nizox> 1.0 released ?
Sep 23 17:02:35 <umdk1d3> eclipse should pick it up
Sep 23 17:02:40 <umdk1d3> nizox: not officially yet  ;)
Sep 23 17:02:42 <ANTRat> nizox: not officaly
Sep 23 17:02:43 <nizox> ok
Sep 23 17:02:44 <erus`> ah cool
Sep 23 17:02:48 <umdk1d3> but there are links that work  :P
Sep 23 17:03:09 <nizox> there are a lot of android videos on youtube
Sep 23 17:03:50 * umdk1d3 changes topic to:  http://dl.google.com/android/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1.zip
Sep 23 17:03:53 <umdk1d3> ;)
Sep 23 17:04:32 <yakischloba> hahaha
Sep 23 17:05:00 <erus`> http://dl.google.com/android/android-sdk-windows-1.0_r1.zip
Sep 23 17:05:22 <umdk1d3> :(  Cannot create data directory: /home/jsharkey/.android/SDK-1.0
Sep 23 17:05:24 <umdk1d3> crap
Sep 23 17:05:26 <erus`> for thows  on win
Sep 23 17:05:27 <ulmen> ha! bug! it won't create the .android folder on itself
Sep 23 17:06:18 * umdk1d3 boots emulator
Sep 23 17:06:24 <ulmen> and on the first boot it shows me "The process android.process.acore has stopped unexpectedly. Please try again."
Sep 23 17:06:40 <erus`> oh
Sep 23 17:10:23 <pjv> mine runs fine here
Sep 23 17:11:15 <umdk1d3> ooh sporting a new blutooth and 3g logo in emulator now
Sep 23 17:11:36 <km-> boo.
Sep 23 17:11:38 <km-> no a2dp?
Sep 23 17:11:39 <km-> so sad.
Sep 23 17:11:52 <umdk1d3> ouch i just crashewd my emulator  :(
Sep 23 17:11:59 <umdk1d3> segmentation fault
Sep 23 17:12:02 <umdk1d3> never done that before
Sep 23 17:12:20 <km-> rut ro
Sep 23 17:12:54 <plusminus_> onyone sighted Text2Speech ?
Sep 23 17:13:08 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: i think i saw it in marketplace on some screenshots this morning
Sep 23 17:13:16 <umdk1d3> also btw the 1.0 emulator still doestn have market
Sep 23 17:13:20 <erus`> yer
Sep 23 17:13:33 <plusminus_> yeah in the market, thats right. But any API...
Sep 23 17:13:34 <umdk1d3> nor amazon mp3 app
Sep 23 17:13:48 <umdk1d3> there isnt anything market related in the 0.9-1.0 changes documentation
Sep 23 17:14:06 <summatusmentis> so... who's all buying it?
Sep 23 17:14:07 <loke__> hmm
Sep 23 17:14:18 <loke__> emulator still crashes on the macmini core duo
Sep 23 17:14:22 <summatusmentis> if there were gsm/HSDAP in my area that worked, I would
Sep 23 17:14:29 <loke__> segmentation fault right at start
Sep 23 17:14:35 <loke__> 0.9 did the same
Sep 23 17:15:02 <heat> loke: tiger or leopard?
Sep 23 17:15:02 <muthu__> where's 1.0?
Sep 23 17:15:10 <umdk1d3> muthu__: http://dl.google.com/android/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1.zip
Sep 23 17:15:16 <muthu__> great
Sep 23 17:15:16 <umdk1d3> hasnt been "officailly" released yet  ;)
Sep 23 17:15:20 <muthu__> haha
Sep 23 17:15:27 <muthu__> umdk1d3, you find it first!
Sep 23 17:15:33 <umdk1d3> yea it did  ;)
Sep 23 17:15:41 <umdk1d3> i guessed at the url
Sep 23 17:15:47 <muthu__> thx
Sep 23 17:15:51 <pjv> api demos not included this time
Sep 23 17:15:54 <umdk1d3> :P
Sep 23 17:16:07 <umdk1d3> pjv: i have the api demos on mine
Sep 23 17:16:07 <erus`> lol
Sep 23 17:16:17 <pjv> hmm
Sep 23 17:16:43 <umdk1d3> still dont have a settings app  :/
Sep 23 17:17:02 <ulmen> i managed to make the menu key not work anymore ...
Sep 23 17:18:14 <ulmen> yeah, a phone you have to reboot from time to time! =) i have one of thoose already.
Sep 23 17:18:42 <plusminus_> just wondering if all parts of my G1 would work in europe, if I buy it here ???
Sep 23 17:18:57 <plusminus_> like 3G especially
Sep 23 17:19:12 <summatusmentis> depends on the frequencies used in europe
Sep 23 17:19:35 <umdk1d3> they said dualband 3g and quadband gsm
Sep 23 17:19:46 <plusminus_> so no ?
Sep 23 17:19:56 <plusminus_> because its just dualband 3g ?
Sep 23 17:20:01 <umdk1d3> idk, but that seems like they are covering their bases
Sep 23 17:20:05 <umdk1d3> is there more than 2 3g bands?
Sep 23 17:20:49 <plusminus_> I need to find that out, before ordering
Sep 23 17:21:05 <plusminus_> and I need to find out if I get a device for review from somehwere
Sep 23 17:21:39 <pardom> what other developer resources are there other than the google samples?
Sep 23 17:21:44 <erus`> iphone just sems rubbish now
Sep 23 17:21:45 <pjv> didnt they say 1700/2100 for us and 2100 for europe? I suppose itll work since T-Mobile is german
Sep 23 17:21:45 <Prez00> hello
Sep 23 17:21:53 <erus`> i mean for a developer
Sep 23 17:21:55 <Prez00> so what's the initial word on the phone?
Sep 23 17:21:56 <pardom> i can't get eclipse to effin' run them
Sep 23 17:22:49 <umdk1d3> there doesnt appear to be many changes 0.9-1.0
Sep 23 17:22:57 <umdk1d3> *from a developer API perspective
Sep 23 17:23:04 <umdk1d3> which we kinda knew stuff was stable
Sep 23 17:23:08 <muthu__> good
Sep 23 17:23:15 <erus`> OMG
Sep 23 17:23:17 <umdk1d3> so the port from 0.9 seems painless
Sep 23 17:23:22 <erus`> hoe screen button is orange!
Sep 23 17:23:38 <umdk1d3> erus`: its only because its selected  :P
Sep 23 17:23:51 <davidw> I wonder if any other handsets will come out
Sep 23 17:24:00 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: your missing out on the 1.0 fun  ;)
Sep 23 17:24:22 <erus`> was the dev tools there before?
Sep 23 17:24:51 <ulmen> yes it was, but it has some new options imho
Sep 23 17:25:13 <plusminus_> damn, I want Text2Speech
Sep 23 17:25:47 <erus`> there b no file system explorer
Sep 23 17:25:51 <plusminus_> it exists, open the API !! *grrr*
Sep 23 17:26:36 <umdk1d3> yay amazon press release  http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1199842&highlight=
Sep 23 17:27:45 <muthu__> nice deal with amzn
Sep 23 17:28:34 <plusminus_> 0,89 is nto much
Sep 23 17:28:46 <fluteflute> i wonder if amazon mp3 will be available outside the us? or perhaps the internation amazon launch will coincide with adroid interenational launch?
Sep 23 17:28:47 <plusminus_> but it will probably be 1 Euro each :(
Sep 23 17:29:01 <plusminus_> which is about 1,40 $
Sep 23 17:29:10 <plusminus_> fluteflute: I think so
Sep 23 17:29:32 <Prez00> so what is consensus among developers here, android thumbs up or thumbs down?
Sep 23 17:29:36 <Prez00> for the long term?
Sep 23 17:29:43 <fluteflute> plusminus_: i hope so
Sep 23 17:30:14 <muthu__> 2 thumbs up
Sep 23 17:30:55 <muthu__> this is exciting
Sep 23 17:30:59 <muthu__> finally we have a roadmap
Sep 23 17:31:01 <Terdhex> Hate the HTC verssion, love the Software... Looking forward to Foxconn's incarnation...
Sep 23 17:31:02 <umdk1d3> lol wow still no 1.0 website
Sep 23 17:31:23 <Prez00> muthu__: where can I take a look at roadmap?
Sep 23 17:31:25 <pardom> anyone know what the inbound call intent is?
Sep 23 17:31:41 <pardom> or if there is one?
Sep 23 17:31:42 <pjv> sure, thumbs up
Sep 23 17:31:58 <SanMehat> 3 thumbs up!
Sep 23 17:32:02 <Prez00> wow...
Sep 23 17:32:36 <muthu__> Prez00, android.com
Sep 23 17:32:55 <kingkung> hello
Sep 23 17:33:19 <umdk1d3> okay im officially bored now  :P
Sep 23 17:33:30 <umdk1d3> coverage moves so slowly
Sep 23 17:33:44 <kingkung> had a quick question
Sep 23 17:33:46 <umdk1d3> thats why i prefer irc, much faster pace and breaking
Sep 23 17:33:50 <umdk1d3> kingkung: sup?
Sep 23 17:34:16 <kingkung> is there a way to switch between two activities in android
Sep 23 17:34:23 <umdk1d3> hold down the home button
Sep 23 17:34:33 <umdk1d3> will show all running apps, like alt-tab
Sep 23 17:35:00 <kingkung> ah
Sep 23 17:35:07 <kingkung> that's good to know
Sep 23 17:35:17 <tethridge> is the lock app in the sdk now?
Sep 23 17:35:17 <kingkung> i actually meant switching between two activities within the same app
Sep 23 17:35:27 <umdk1d3> tethridge: nope  :/
Sep 23 17:35:36 <umdk1d3> i think thats under settings, which we dont have axx to yet
Sep 23 17:36:05 <umdk1d3> kingkung: hmm not sure
Sep 23 17:36:07 * Miek high-fives umdk1d3 
Sep 23 17:36:30 <umdk1d3> Miek: the 1.0 leek link?  ;)
Sep 23 17:36:38 <Miek> yep :>
Sep 23 17:36:44 <umdk1d3> its been 40mins since i found it lol
Sep 23 17:36:52 <Miek> i was at dinner :p
Sep 23 17:37:39 <kingkung> android 1.0 leaked link??
Sep 23 17:37:46 <umdk1d3> kingkung: lol kinda  ;)
Sep 23 17:37:52 <umdk1d3> what platform do you use?
Sep 23 17:38:06 <ralfwinz> kingkung, just try Activty.startActivity(new Intent(this, OtherActivityClass.class));
Sep 23 17:38:20 <kingkung> that's starting an activity
Sep 23 17:38:24 <pardom> question: how to i send a call to the emulator?
Sep 23 17:38:31 <pardom> from terminal?
Sep 23 17:38:33 <ralfwinz> kingkung, starting an activity = switching to it
Sep 23 17:38:34 <Hai-Fai> yay, android 1.0 @ http://www.brothersoft.com/android-18014.html
Sep 23 17:38:47 <kingkung> i meant reverting back to a previous activity while keeping its state in tact
Sep 23 17:39:23 <ralfwinz> kingkung, to go back to the previous activity, just finish() the current one. It works like a stack, you don't switch.
Sep 23 17:39:43 <umdk1d3> kingkung: users use the "back" button, and you can save state in onPause()
Sep 23 17:39:48 <ralfwinz> kingkung, if you start activity B using startActivityWithResult() from A, you can go back to A with some state
Sep 23 17:39:50 <umdk1d3> *onSaveInstanceState(Bundle)
Sep 23 17:40:03 <umdk1d3> Hai-Fai: wrong 1.0  :P
Sep 23 17:40:32 <kingkung> so that when you go back to B, you can reload that state?
Sep 23 17:40:49 <umdk1d3> kingkung: in B's onCreate() you could look for saved state info
Sep 23 17:40:57 <ralfwinz> you can passe the state as a Bundle in startActivity, and with the "withResult" one you can give state back.
Sep 23 17:41:02 <umdk1d3> "its onCreate(Bundle) method will be called with the savedInstanceState it had previously supplied in onSaveInstanceState(Bundle) so that it can restart itself in the same state as the user last left it. "
Sep 23 17:41:22 <ralfwinz> with you call startActivity(new Intent...) you can add extra infos to the intent.
Sep 23 17:42:04 <ralfwinz> kingkung, there should be some APIDemos example that use these calls
Sep 23 17:42:04 <kingkung> cool
Sep 23 17:42:08 <kingkung> okay
Sep 23 17:43:28 <DD94300> group, How do I include home key also part of onKeyDown event?
Sep 23 17:44:31 <unix_infidel> wow, confirmed no 3.5mm jack.
Sep 23 17:44:38 <unix_infidel> hopefully they come out with another supported handset.
Sep 23 17:44:57 <jjshoe> unix_infidel does it have stereo bluetooth or no?
Sep 23 17:45:01 <tethridge> no
Sep 23 17:45:02 <unix_infidel> no
Sep 23 17:45:05 <loke__> no
Sep 23 17:45:09 <jjshoe> O.o
Sep 23 17:45:18 <tethridge> so how are you supposed to listen to your music?
Sep 23 17:45:22 <tethridge> speakerphone?
Sep 23 17:45:31 <unix_infidel> proprietary headset.
Sep 23 17:45:35 <tethridge> oh
Sep 23 17:45:35 <jjshoe> how on earth does that sound when paired with a bluetooth headset?
Sep 23 17:46:05 <Miek> is it htc's usual propietary usb jack?
Sep 23 17:46:29 <jjshoe> proprietary?
Sep 23 17:46:32 <jjshoe> it's a standard usb jack
Sep 23 17:46:33 <jjshoe> lol
Sep 23 17:46:53 <tethridge> htc has a 3.5mm jack on the hd touch
Sep 23 17:46:56 <Miek> my kaiser's usb jack also has pins for the headset
Sep 23 17:47:03 <muthu__> sj would make some crazy announcement tommorrow
Sep 23 17:47:16 <Miek> i bought an adapter off amazon for a couple of quid which has a 3.5mm jack on it
Sep 23 17:47:56 <loke__> Miek: you actually want to carry such an adapter in your pocket?
Sep 23 17:48:04 <loke__> those are usually quite big
Sep 23 17:49:05 <Miek> i don't have much choice, but it's not really that bad
Sep 23 17:49:09 <Miek> it's just this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000UUQGEY
Sep 23 17:49:22 <AttractiveApe> yeah, I have that one for my Vogue
Sep 23 17:49:23 <AttractiveApe> Works fine.
Sep 23 17:55:11 <Miek> the g1 does have htc's "extusb" port, so one option is adapters like the one above
Sep 23 17:57:44 <jasonchen> we're live now w/ Android 1.0 SDK: http://code.google.com/android/download.html
Sep 23 17:57:55 <muthu__> great!
Sep 23 17:58:01 <nizox> \o/
Sep 23 17:58:02 <umdk1d3> lol finally  ;)
Sep 23 17:58:03 <yakischloba> woohoozzy
Sep 23 17:58:21 <umdk1d3> an hour after leeked links  ;)
Sep 23 17:58:56 <jasonchen> umdk1d3: from now on, we're going to obfuscate our download links
Sep 23 17:59:01 <umdk1d3> awww  :(
Sep 23 17:59:09 <muthu__> nooo
Sep 23 17:59:23 <yakischloba> umdk1d3: thanks for ruining it for us! keep it on the downlow next time.
Sep 23 17:59:26 * jasonchen kids
Sep 23 17:59:27 <muthu__> umdk1d3, if only you had searched for it yesterday
Sep 23 17:59:30 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 23 17:59:34 * umdk1d3 tries 2.0_rc3   :P
Sep 23 17:59:38 <nizox> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/net/wifi/package-summary.html
Sep 23 17:59:39 <nizox> :))
Sep 23 18:00:07 <muthu__> haha.. 1.0_final
Sep 23 18:00:18 <jasonchen> and, of course, the obligatory blog post: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/09/announcing-android-10-sdk-release-1.html
Sep 23 18:00:38 <umdk1d3> lol @ topic
Sep 23 18:00:40 <muthu__> jasonchen, when the market launch?
Sep 23 18:00:45 <SanMehat> umdk1d3: shaddap :P
Sep 23 18:00:46 <SanMehat> :)
Sep 23 18:00:49 <umdk1d3> muthu__: good question /me seconds
Sep 23 18:01:12 <erus`> download still is 0.9
Sep 23 18:01:17 <umdk1d3> 65 minutes later  ;)
Sep 23 18:03:10 <jasonchen> muthu__: it's not launched yet, but will be available around when G1's hit the street
Sep 23 18:03:19 <muthu__> great
Sep 23 18:03:25 <plusminus_> why not a day or two before ? (for devs)
Sep 23 18:03:27 <umdk1d3> jasonchen: what about before then so developers can get some apps in the store?
Sep 23 18:03:29 <umdk1d3> yea
Sep 23 18:03:35 <jasonchen> plusminus_: i said _around_
Sep 23 18:03:36 <plusminus_> ha first :P
Sep 23 18:03:39 <umdk1d3> lol  ;)
Sep 23 18:03:44 <plusminus_> ok fine
Sep 23 18:03:48 <muthu__> prolly a week before
Sep 23 18:04:47 <plusminus_> is there anything about revenue-share ?
Sep 23 18:04:56 <plusminus_> will it be below 100% ;)
Sep 23 18:05:13 <muthu__> 80/20
Sep 23 18:05:16 <umdk1d3> wasnt it rumored somewhere that market would be free-only at launch?
Sep 23 18:05:25 <muthu__> yup
Sep 23 18:05:28 <umdk1d3> those revenue share numbers were from tmob store, which iirc is separate
Sep 23 18:05:33 <plusminus_> yeah but thats been some tiem ago
Sep 23 18:05:33 <Dougie187> Are the germany people sad?
Sep 23 18:05:42 <plusminus_> ... some
Sep 23 18:05:43 <jasonchen> only details we have to share right now re: Market are here: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/08/android-market-user-driven-content.html
Sep 23 18:05:45 <umdk1d3> google market rev share hasnt been anncd yet afaik
Sep 23 18:05:46 <Dougie187> heh
Sep 23 18:06:12 <muthu__> thinks google might just go with a free market
Sep 23 18:06:29 <muthu__> and the carriers would take up the paid market
Sep 23 18:06:40 <umdk1d3> mmm
Sep 23 18:07:15 <jasonchen> muthu__: from the blog post: "Developers can expect the first handsets to be enabled with a beta version of Android Market. Some decisions are still being made, but at a minimum you can expect support for free (unpaid) applications. Soon after launch an update will be provided that supports download of paid content and more features such as versioning, multiple device profile support, analytics, etc."
Sep 23 18:07:29 <muthu__> thanks
Sep 23 18:07:34 <muthu__> forgot about that
Sep 23 18:07:38 <plusminus_> Just seen Romain in that one video about "apps are equal". I ever thought he was about 35 or sth, because he seemed to know just everything. But he's like ~26 or sth. *impressed*
Sep 23 18:08:17 <muthu__> there's only a few oldies left behind
Sep 23 18:08:38 <cbeust> Romain is actually 12, we just had to use a lot of make-up
Sep 23 18:08:44 <fadden> Whippersnappers.
Sep 23 18:08:44 <plusminus_> so I've got 5 years to beat him :-P
Sep 23 18:08:46 <muthu__> haha
Sep 23 18:08:50 <plusminus_> :-D
Sep 23 18:09:11 <nizox> is romain french?
Sep 23 18:09:35 <muthu__> yup
Sep 23 18:09:42 <cbeust> Yup, 2 French in the same office
Sep 23 18:09:46 <cbeust> we hardly speak French there though
Sep 23 18:10:04 <jasonchen> what you didn't know is that the team starts the day by yelling at kids to get off the lawn.
Sep 23 18:10:45 <muthu__> jasonchen, do they let family in
Sep 23 18:10:47 <muthu__> ?
Sep 23 18:10:53 <fadden> Not on the lawn.
Sep 23 18:11:01 <muthu__> hehe
Sep 23 18:12:03 <jasta> the 1.0 changes seem pretty minimal, actually.  nice to see android.test made it in.
Sep 23 18:12:12 <jasta> hopefully my SIGKILL bug was fixed :)
Sep 23 18:12:15 <jasta> but probably not hehe
Sep 23 18:12:59 <muthu__> android.test cool
Sep 23 18:13:49 <milluminu> I just downloaded the sdk, joined the google group, and preordered :) iphone goes on craigslist
Sep 23 18:13:54 <umdk1d3> well /me heads of to sleep for awhile
Sep 23 18:14:21 <jjshoe> so is the g1 "locked" to tmobile?
Sep 23 18:14:33 <nizox> jjshoe: it seems ..
Sep 23 18:14:35 <umdk1d3> jjshoe: when bought through their contract, the answer was yes
Sep 23 18:14:44 <umdk1d3> i assume you could buy an unlocked handset later
Sep 23 18:14:44 <jjshoe> I'm not asking about the contract.
Sep 23 18:14:49 <jjshoe> I'm asking about the device
Sep 23 18:14:54 <jjshoe> is it locked in any sort of fashion?
Sep 23 18:15:01 <jjshoe> has anyone put another sim card in it yet?
Sep 23 18:15:13 <umdk1d3> i doubt the hardware is hard-locked to them
Sep 23 18:15:24 <umdk1d3> wouldnt make sense from htc's perspective
Sep 23 18:15:29 <yakischloba> it was unveiled about 3 hours ago. hackers don't have a phone yet.
Sep 23 18:15:32 <umdk1d3> they are interested in selling as many as they can
Sep 23 18:15:41 <jjshoe> yakischloba how is trying another sim card hacking?
Sep 23 18:15:42 <jjshoe> lol
Sep 23 18:15:55 <yakischloba> jjshoe: you understood what I was getting at
Sep 23 18:16:00 <milluminu> does anyone know hardware specs for the g1?
Sep 23 18:16:12 <umdk1d3> let me put it this way
Sep 23 18:16:13 <erus`> whos gonna help me port javaboy to android then?
Sep 23 18:16:23 <umdk1d3> ive seen android traffic from both tmobile and cingular wireless networks
Sep 23 18:16:46 <jjshoe> erus` javaboy?
Sep 23 18:16:59 <jjshoe> getting an android without a contract will be easy in la
Sep 23 18:16:59 <erus`> portable java gameboy emulator
Sep 23 18:17:10 <umdk1d3> so that makes me assume somewhere, somehow, people have switched out simcards and are using other providers
Sep 23 18:17:29 <milluminu> is android essentially a mobile interface x windows on a jvm?
Sep 23 18:17:41 <jjshoe> erus` hrm, pretty small source, shouldn't be too bad
Sep 23 18:17:46 <umdk1d3> milluminu: no, its not on a single jvm
Sep 23 18:17:55 <umdk1d3> its several thin dalvak jvms
Sep 23 18:18:06 <erus`> i still dont know enough about android dev
Sep 23 18:18:18 <umdk1d3> jvm sandboxes for each app
Sep 23 18:18:19 <erus`> intents and all that
Sep 23 18:18:50 <jjshoe> but yeah, I'll be able to drive into the ghetto here, and give the kid behind the counter $50 to get the g1 without the contract :P
Sep 23 18:18:56 <unix_infidel> erus`: i just started on monday.
Sep 23 18:19:08 <umdk1d3> lol @ ghetto
Sep 23 18:19:08 <unix_infidel> the paradigms and base classes arent that hard, you just gotta set aside a couple hours.
Sep 23 18:19:28 <f00f-> jjshoe hook it up
Sep 23 18:19:50 <jjshoe> f00f- I'll probably try to get as many units as I can :)
Sep 23 18:20:39 <umdk1d3> jjshoe: not sure how well that would work
Sep 23 18:20:57 <jjshoe> umdk1d3 it works.
Sep 23 18:21:03 <f00f-> i'm sure you could try talking to htc's wholesale department
Sep 23 18:21:06 <umdk1d3> not sure if the software tries tieing to your tmob account for ringtone billing, etc
Sep 23 18:21:10 <f00f-> become a fly-by-the-night distributor
Sep 23 18:21:14 <umdk1d3> ooh
Sep 23 18:21:19 <milluminu> do all the dependencies for an app have to run in the jvms too? for example could you port ffmpeg/mplayer or does the thing have to be rewritten from scratch in java or do i have a bad understanding?
Sep 23 18:21:24 <umdk1d3> once its opensource i suppose you could just do a custom build
Sep 23 18:21:29 <umdk1d3> that doesnt require a gmail login
Sep 23 18:21:36 <jjshoe> umdk1d3 exactly
Sep 23 18:21:58 <plusminus_> I like the full gApp-Syncing (Calendar, Contacts, etc... !)
Sep 23 18:22:04 <Dougie187> me too
Sep 23 18:22:05 <Dougie187> its awesome
Sep 23 18:22:18 <jjshoe> it's a shame it doesn't do outlook
Sep 23 18:22:22 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 23 18:22:23 <umdk1d3> milluminu: your thinking of JNI native code, which rumor has it wont work on final devices
Sep 23 18:22:29 <Dougie187> who cares about outlook?
Sep 23 18:22:29 <muthu__> no outlook.. nice
Sep 23 18:22:40 <jjshoe> Dougie187 everyone in the buisness word who uses outlook?
Sep 23 18:22:47 <milluminu> yeah srsly who cares about proprietary crapware
Sep 23 18:22:51 <umdk1d3> milluminu: makes sense tho, you want to keep native code to a minimum
Sep 23 18:22:52 <Dougie187> You don't need your phone to use outlook.
Sep 23 18:22:59 <Dougie187> you can get into outlook with gmail still
Sep 23 18:23:01 <pardom> anyone know a good example of PhoneStateListener and listening for incoming calls?
Sep 23 18:23:02 <plusminus_> jjshoe: some comapnies do that
Sep 23 18:23:09 <umdk1d3> video libs should already be provided by packetvideo, if they get their act together
Sep 23 18:23:17 <plusminus_> I've made a tut on that but that was on m3
Sep 23 18:23:22 <umdk1d3> i wonder if they held out most codecs in the emulator because of licensing costs
Sep 23 18:23:23 <plusminus_> pardom: ,--
Sep 23 18:23:38 <pardom> m3?
Sep 23 18:23:42 <erus`> i dont have android.pim or android.opengl.Object3D :(
Sep 23 18:23:50 <umdk1d3> its much easier to include codec licesing costs in a handset price
Sep 23 18:24:13 <umdk1d3> i wouldnt be suprised if the opensource android doesnt have too much in the way of codecs
Sep 23 18:24:15 <milluminu> eh codecs, i'll take xvid and ogm for free
Sep 23 18:24:21 <plusminus_> pardom: old sdk ( http://www.anddev.org/viewtopic.php?p=231#231 )
Sep 23 18:24:30 <umdk1d3> milluminu: right, but "normal" people wont get those codecs
Sep 23 18:24:35 <pardom> ah, yeah i saw that
Sep 23 18:24:40 <milluminu> i dont really care about how much android comes with out of the box because i know opensource is going to drive it
Sep 23 18:24:41 <pardom> uses the old stuff though
Sep 23 18:24:46 <umdk1d3> milluminu: very true
Sep 23 18:24:52 <pardom> doesn't seem to translate easy into the new stuff
Sep 23 18:24:55 <jjshoe> I'd like to know if the phone can be un-spun of all the google apps
Sep 23 18:24:59 <umdk1d3> however, keep in mind that most people are going to get it and just use it out of the box
Sep 23 18:25:02 <plusminus_> pardom: yeah sorry
Sep 23 18:25:08 <Dougie187> lol there is a sudden influx of people into the room today.
Sep 23 18:25:11 <umdk1d3> i would argue that <1/2 iphone ppl jailbroke their phones
Sep 23 18:25:17 <umdk1d3> just because they dont care
Sep 23 18:25:20 <plusminus_> it would take me weeks to translate all the tuts to 1.0 now :(
Sep 23 18:25:23 <umdk1d3> it works for them
Sep 23 18:25:44 <Dougie187> jjshoe: i guess i don't see why anyone would complain that your phone doesn't work with outlook.
Sep 23 18:26:03 <pardom> has anyone done a tutorial on catching incoming calls? google's docs are cumbersome and their samples dont compile
Sep 23 18:26:04 <Dougie187> mainly because the google apps work with outlook.. and your phone actively syncs with the google apps.
Sep 23 18:26:15 <jjshoe> Dougie187 you can't see why anyone would want to sync their calendars, tasks, notes, etc?
Sep 23 18:26:19 <erus`> webview is well cool
Sep 23 18:26:25 <erus`> javascipts :)
Sep 23 18:26:31 <Dougie187> It does all the stuff for you if you have it set up correctly.
Sep 23 18:26:38 <jjshoe> Dougie187 so it does work with outlook?
Sep 23 18:27:05 <Dougie187> if you sync your outlook with google apps then yes.
Sep 23 18:27:17 * umdk1d3 falls over asleep
Sep 23 18:27:22 <Dougie187> something a sys admin could set up.
Sep 23 18:27:24 <jjshoe> Dougie187 yuck. so it doesn't work.
Sep 23 18:27:40 <Dougie187> its easier then stupid windows mobile and outlook in my opinion.
Sep 23 18:27:42 <jjshoe> the g1 doesn't sync with outlook.
Sep 23 18:27:58 <ulmen> the world falls apart!
Sep 23 18:28:17 <Dougie187> jjshoe: if your that worried about outlook, you might just stick with windows mobile.
Sep 23 18:28:31 <umdk1d3> dont forget to give android some digg love  http://digg.com/search?s=android&submit=Search&section=all&type=both&area=dig&sort=new
Sep 23 18:28:34 <jjshoe> Dougie187 planning on it, until someone comes up with something that will sync with outlook.
Sep 23 18:28:51 <jjshoe> and I see that the device can have all the google crap removed
Sep 23 18:28:55 <muthu__> there'll be tons of outlook clients for g1
Sep 23 18:28:57 <Dougie187> Lol
Sep 23 18:29:12 <jjshoe> muthu__ yeah, it has an imap client supposidly, which is a rough start :\
Sep 23 18:29:12 <Dougie187> Personally, I would rather it be loaded to shit with google crap then have any outlook stuff on it.
Sep 23 18:29:32 <Dougie187> you can set up your gmail account to pull email from another account too.
Sep 23 18:29:37 <Dougie187> and you have to have a gmail account to use the G1
Sep 23 18:29:58 <umdk1d3> ooh sexy android advert  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZHgZr3SXCA
Sep 23 18:30:09 <Dougie187> i still stand by my opinion that its easier to sync stuff with outlook than windows mobile.
Sep 23 18:30:13 <jjshoe> google mail is over-rated
Sep 23 18:30:17 <Dougie187> hah
Sep 23 18:30:28 <Dougie187> you don't know what your talking about.
Sep 23 18:30:53 <Dougie187> gmail is over rated, and thats why companies are starting to use it for the email servers? and schools the same?
Sep 23 18:30:58 <nemik> so how will android be in terms of changing kernels, apps for ARM, etc?
Sep 23 18:31:06 <Dougie187> and people send their email through it just to clear out extra spam?
Sep 23 18:31:27 <jjshoe> Dougie187 do you have trouble understanding the concept of an opinion?
Sep 23 18:31:40 <SanMehat> guys.. chill.
Sep 23 18:31:51 <Dougie187> you didn't say it was an opinion, or imply that it was an opinion.
Sep 23 18:31:58 <jjshoe> Dougie187 and?
Sep 23 18:32:07 <yakischloba> I think we should make an android-dev channel where this nonsense talk isn't permitted
Sep 23 18:32:27 <Dougie187> agreed.
Sep 23 18:32:40 <pardom> do it
Sep 23 18:32:58 <Dougie187> jjshoe: i think it is you who does not understand the concept of an opinion.
Sep 23 18:33:08 <Dougie187> you have to specify something as an opinion for it to count as one.
Sep 23 18:33:09 <jjshoe> yakischloba I agree.
Sep 23 18:33:10 <yakischloba> I was hoping someone else will step up and do it ;)
Sep 23 18:33:18 <jjshoe> Dougie187 no i don't.
Sep 23 18:33:21 <Dougie187> otherwise it sounds like your saying something is a fact, and it just makes you sound dumb
Sep 23 18:33:31 <jjshoe> Dougie187 I don't agree with you *shrug*
Sep 23 18:33:40 <Dougie187> yakischloba: there is the old NDA room...
Sep 23 18:33:42 <Dougie187> if its still up..
Sep 23 18:33:48 <jjshoe> I think you're dumb for over analyzing my comment as fact and making everyone in here listen to your blather
Sep 23 18:34:01 <yakischloba> I'm not familiar with it.
Sep 23 18:34:07 <nemik> ok #android-dev is alive. just go there for non-fanboy talk
Sep 23 18:34:09 <Dougie187> yakischloba: i think its #adc1
Sep 23 18:34:23 <Dougie187> it had a password though
Sep 23 18:34:45 <Dougie187> i like how today.. the room rate jumped like 20.
Sep 23 18:35:24 <SanMehat> I'll speak to Dan about possibly breaking things out
Sep 23 18:35:35 <Dougie187> SanMehat: is the adc1 room still up?
Sep 23 18:35:39 <yakischloba> SanMehat: awesome.
Sep 23 18:36:01 <pardom> #android-dev
Sep 23 18:36:05 <SanMehat> Dougie187: I'm not sure, I'm an engineer, not an official advocate
Sep 23 18:36:12 <Dougie187> heh
Sep 23 18:36:14 <SanMehat> I'll speak to Dan though.
Sep 23 18:36:17 <Dougie187> isnt dan that as well though?
Sep 23 18:36:28 <Dougie187> or is he an official advocate + engineer?
Sep 23 18:37:15 <SanMehat> Dan is an official Advocate that does occasionally sling code :)
Sep 23 18:37:20 <Dougie187> hah
Sep 23 18:37:29 <Dougie187> i'm sure he would appreciate that as well.
Sep 23 18:37:57 <tethridge> are the example apps, like the bar code scanner and book library going to be released on the market place?
Sep 23 18:37:57 <Dougie187> hell, he does the "Hello World" video walkthough.
Sep 23 18:38:14 <pjv> whats the deal with the "funnerer, smarterer, connecteder" in the htc ads? is that even funny to native english speakers?
Sep 23 18:38:31 <tethridge> SanMehat, u know?
Sep 23 18:38:32 <jjshoe> pjv no.
Sep 23 18:38:39 <plusminus_> pjv: i think its not too bad
Sep 23 18:38:56 <SanMehat> tethridge: I'm sorry I don't know. I will check with Dan though, otherwise perhaps jasonchen can answer you're question
Sep 23 18:39:03 <tethridge> I liked how the search text was typed into the search applet without the keyboard being visible in the commercial
Sep 23 18:39:20 <tethridge> marketing magic
Sep 23 18:40:11 <tethridge> jasonchen, do you know about the sample apps we saw in some android videos today?
Sep 23 18:43:32 <zhobbs> neat, 1.0
Sep 23 18:43:51 <Dougie187> comon zhobbs 1.0 is where the parties at.
Sep 23 18:44:14 <zhobbs> Dougie187: I'm late to the party
Sep 23 18:44:20 <umdk1d3> lol @ "nda room"
Sep 23 18:44:27 <Dougie187> heh
Sep 23 18:44:41 <whatever> Hi guys any reviews on 1.0 ?
Sep 23 18:44:43 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: what's nda room?
Sep 23 18:44:43 <f00f-> 1.0 is out?
Sep 23 18:44:51 <zhobbs> f00f-: yep
Sep 23 18:44:57 <pardom> where?
Sep 23 18:44:58 <umdk1d3> f00f-: yea i leaked it 65 mins before it was official  ;)  rooofl
Sep 23 18:45:02 <zhobbs> see topic
Sep 23 18:45:14 <pardom> umdk1d3: link
Sep 23 18:45:15 <f00f-> nice
Sep 23 18:45:23 <umdk1d3> pardom: topic  :P
Sep 23 18:45:28 <pardom> ah k
Sep 23 18:45:37 <milluminu> what time was android 10 released
Sep 23 18:45:39 <milluminu> 1.0
Sep 23 18:46:05 * umdk1d3 looks at logs
Sep 23 18:46:08 <zhobbs> no source for 1.0 though right?
Sep 23 18:46:52 <umdk1d3> leeked at 10:55am, official at 11:57am
Sep 23 18:46:55 <umdk1d3> no source yet
Sep 23 18:47:05 <pardom> eclipse adt still compatible?
Sep 23 18:47:15 <umdk1d3> there is a new eclipse plugin upgrade
Sep 23 18:47:27 <pardom> on the download page?
Sep 23 18:47:36 <umdk1d3> pardom: just use the update feature in eclipse
Sep 23 18:47:48 <umdk1d3> it will auto upgrade to newest version
Sep 23 18:47:56 <pardom> https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ is down tho
Sep 23 18:48:03 <pardom> 404
Sep 23 18:48:20 <umdk1d3> pardom: no its not
Sep 23 18:48:21 <umdk1d3> https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml
Sep 23 18:48:27 <umdk1d3> that dir page is 404 on purpose
Sep 23 18:48:28 <pardom> ok kl
Sep 23 18:48:30 <umdk1d3> but will still work in eclipse
Sep 23 18:48:40 <pardom> i couldnt get it to work last week
Sep 23 18:50:13 <pardom> umdk1d3: gay question but have you used PhoneServiceListener to listen for an incoming call?
Sep 23 18:50:51 <umdk1d3> pardom: nope i havent tried listening for incoming calls yet  :/
Sep 23 18:50:57 <pardom> balh
Sep 23 18:50:59 <pardom> blah*
Sep 23 18:51:12 <pardom> nobody knows how apparently
Sep 23 18:53:04 <zhobbs> pardom: I'm working on that right now...about to test it actually :)
Sep 23 18:53:22 <pardom> zhobbs: can you hook me up after?
Sep 23 18:53:33 <zhobbs> sure, I think PhoneStateListener is the route to take
Sep 23 18:53:56 <pardom> k that's what i thought, it seemed the most similar to PhoneStateIntentReciever
Sep 23 18:55:39 <Dougie187> umdk1d3: were you in the nda room?
Sep 23 18:55:47 <erus`> would it be a good idea to implement my gameboy emulator as a cutom view?
Sep 23 18:56:17 <erus`> or just canvas?
Sep 23 18:56:18 <unix_lappy> odd, eclipse / the emulator makes my CPU temp go up by about 5-8C even when not running.
Sep 23 18:56:49 <ulmen> unix_lappy: define "not running"?
Sep 23 18:56:53 <zhobbs> Dougie187: what's the nda room?
Sep 23 18:57:00 <Dougie187> remember? from adc1?
Sep 23 18:57:01 <unix_lappy> ulmen: no active windows.
Sep 23 18:57:11 <zhobbs> oh, is that room still alive?
Sep 23 18:57:15 <Dougie187> ionno
Sep 23 18:57:22 <Dougie187> thats what im trying to find out
Sep 23 18:57:37 <zhobbs> don't know why it would be...
Sep 23 18:57:54 <Dougie187> because isnt the nda still active?
Sep 23 18:58:07 <pardom> why is it that i can never get the google samples to import into eclipse correctly?
Sep 23 18:58:15 <pardom> is there a trick to it?
Sep 23 18:58:28 <zhobbs> Dougie187: yeah, but nothing to really talk about, 1.0 is the latest sdk
Sep 23 18:58:34 <zhobbs> and we can talk about that
Sep 23 18:58:37 <Dougie187> well now...
Sep 23 18:58:42 <Dougie187> but yesterday?
Sep 23 18:58:49 <Dougie187> didn't they have 1.0
Sep 23 18:58:50 <Dougie187> ?
Sep 23 18:58:51 <umdk1d3> Dougie187: that nda is active for next 2.5yrs iirc  >:/
Sep 23 18:58:58 <Dougie187> heh
Sep 23 18:59:00 <Dougie187> are you in the nda?
Sep 23 19:00:01 <unix_lappy> to upgrade, just download 1.0 and delete the folder containing .9
Sep 23 19:00:03 <unix_lappy> ?
Sep 23 19:00:04 <umdk1d3> =D  /me goes to watch bill nye teh science guy
Sep 23 19:00:13 <unix_lappy> or do i also have to update run configs?
Sep 23 19:00:16 <Dougie187> can you not say if your in the nda?
Sep 23 19:00:49 <muthu_> Dougie187, don't think that room is active anymore
Sep 23 19:00:54 <Dougie187> ok
Sep 23 19:00:59 <Dougie187> thats all i was looking for.
Sep 23 19:00:59 <Dougie187> heh
Sep 23 19:01:11 <zhobbs> Dougie187: all top 50 signed an nda
Sep 23 19:01:18 <Dougie187> i know
Sep 23 19:01:26 <Dougie187> i just don't remember who the f was in it.
Sep 23 19:01:32 <Dougie187> i guess i could go look at the gallery though
Sep 23 19:01:51 <muthu_> only a few came there
Sep 23 19:01:52 <unix_lappy> anyone?
Sep 23 19:01:58 <Terdhex2> dir
Sep 23 19:02:06 <Dougie187> true. muthu_ it wasnt official either was it?
Sep 23 19:02:18 <muthu_> not official
Sep 23 19:03:25 <f00f-> i don't get what's so special
Sep 23 19:03:29 <Dougie187> about?
Sep 23 19:03:30 <f00f-> ADC 1 is hitory
Sep 23 19:03:32 <anno^da_> Oh guys I hate the "sim locked" answer from the press conference. I hope this will change for the devices in Europe.
Sep 23 19:03:33 <f00f-> move on
Sep 23 19:03:45 <Dougie187> no f00f-, there was a point to me asking about it.
Sep 23 19:04:09 <Dougie187> it was because people were asking for a private room to talk developer stuff instead of fanboy stuff
Sep 23 19:04:21 <Dougie187> so i was saying if the nda room was still up it would work for that
Sep 23 19:04:31 <f00f-> i think they meant #android-dev
Sep 23 19:04:37 <f00f-> yeah it's still up, but no one in there
Sep 23 19:04:46 <f00f-> i'll shut it down soon
Sep 23 19:04:53 <Dougie187> ohh its your room.
Sep 23 19:04:53 <Dougie187> ok
Sep 23 19:05:18 <pjv> anno^da_, I second that
Sep 23 19:05:51 <anno^da_> pjv: Well and the best joke is "we want to give an opportunity to the customer...thats why we locked it"
Sep 23 19:06:02 <anno^da_> they havent learned anything :/
Sep 23 19:06:12 <anno^da_> (the carriers :) )
Sep 23 19:06:34 <anno^da_> Now we will have the same un lock race in the future like we know it from the iPhone
Sep 23 19:06:40 <pjv> thats not exactly what I was thinking, they can simlock all they want in the US because it is accepted there
Sep 23 19:07:05 <anno^da_> Well in the US yeah
Sep 23 19:07:09 <jasta> my biggest concern is not simlocking, but actually locking out devs from the linux underpinnings.
Sep 23 19:07:33 <Dougie187> hows it going jasta?
Sep 23 19:07:52 <jasta> but i actually don't care to worry about that too much until i actually get my grimey hands on one.  at this point, with a launch in a month, might as wel just wait :)
Sep 23 19:08:00 <jasta> Dougie187: good ;)
Sep 23 19:08:02 <f00f-> so you're getting one then jasta
Sep 23 19:08:12 <jasta> well of course im getting one, did i say i wasn't?
Sep 23 19:08:27 <anno^da_> And now I have to say something about the trailers. :-) They look soooooo raw in contrast to the polished videos we know from other HTC devices or Apple press conferences. :D
Sep 23 19:08:41 <wastrel> hi
Sep 23 19:08:54 <wastrel> reading gizmodo.  what does it mean "if you download an app on your desktop"
Sep 23 19:08:57 <wastrel> is that like google desktop?
Sep 23 19:09:09 <pjv> anno^da_, did you see the htc ad on youtube?
Sep 23 19:10:02 <nemik> jasta: that's what i'm worried about too. so debating android or openmoko
Sep 23 19:10:02 <anno^da_> oh pjv havent seen that. Just reffered to the press conf at the moment.
Sep 23 19:10:30 <jasta> nemik: well, just be patient.  let the first hackers see what it can do :)
Sep 23 19:10:33 <jasta> then make your decision
Sep 23 19:10:38 <nemik> yea, exactly
Sep 23 19:10:51 <jasta> i'm also planning to wait a week or two to see if unlocking is trivial.
Sep 23 19:10:55 <jasta> i dont want to use t-mobile
Sep 23 19:11:00 <anno^da_> But another concern is that they left out the desktop syncing. From my point of view this is an important point.
Sep 23 19:11:12 <nemik> though i think i'd still go with openmoko. this whole thing is too tied to advertising and usual crap google pulls
Sep 23 19:11:36 <pjv> anno^da_, it was pasted here before: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8PMcvYTZo&feature=related
Sep 23 19:11:38 <anno^da_> jasta	i'm also planning to wait a week or two to see if unlocking is trivial.  <-- this is what I hate about the sim lock. Now we have to think about unlocking. :-)
Sep 23 19:11:42 <yakischloba> jasta: what method do you have of obtaining a phone though, even if you can use it with another carrier? pay the fee to break out of the contract?
Sep 23 19:11:52 <pjv> oops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZHgZr3SXCA
Sep 23 19:11:53 <unix_lappy> on average how large would the average app be?
Sep 23 19:11:59 <yakischloba> or just hope they'll show up on ebay or something?
Sep 23 19:12:20 <jasta> yakischloba: yeah, im hoping unlocked phones will be sold internationally
Sep 23 19:12:24 <jasta> just like the current market
Sep 23 19:12:45 <jasta> sim locking in the US is also really easy.  you just call up the carrier and say "unlock my phone."
Sep 23 19:12:47 <anno^da_> Like the iPhones on eBay
Sep 23 19:12:49 <jasta> they dont argue with you
Sep 23 19:13:03 <nemik> jasta: except ATT/iphone
Sep 23 19:13:15 <jasta> i guess, i dont have any experience with that
Sep 23 19:13:22 <jasta> but ive unlocked lots of windows mobile smartphones by just calling at&t
Sep 23 19:13:25 <nemik> but yea t-mobile is cool about it. then again, they're the only other GSM provider in the USA
Sep 23 19:13:28 <jasta> including my current one, when i went to ireland
Sep 23 19:13:48 <jasta> nemik: uhm, no, AT&T is also GSM.
Sep 23 19:13:51 <yakischloba> maybe t-mobile isn't as cool. they probably know that no one wants to use their network.
Sep 23 19:14:01 <nemik> jasta: only OTHER
Sep 23 19:14:04 <jasta> oh
Sep 23 19:14:08 <jasta> yes ;)
Sep 23 19:16:02 <anno^da_> I can hear the customers crying for A2DP BT profile :D
Sep 23 19:18:03 <fariseo> ehm, 'clunky' :) http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobile-g1-video-hands-on/
Sep 23 19:23:30 <zhobbs> anno^da_: yeah, especially cause it doesn't have a headphone jack
Sep 23 19:24:00 <f00f-> it'll come
Sep 23 19:25:01 <fariseo> is multitouch an apple pattent now? or why is there no multitouch capability with dream?
Sep 23 19:25:24 <Miek> agh! simple adapter for a couple of quid, it's not that bad
Sep 23 19:26:57 <erus`> o god creating a custom view is such a pain
Sep 23 19:27:15 <plusminus_> erus`: no. at least it depends
Sep 23 19:27:16 <erus`> doesnt even give reason for crash
Sep 23 19:27:36 <erus`> give me good old pure code interfaces
Sep 23 19:27:41 <erus`> no more xml
Sep 23 19:28:40 <zhobbs> erus`: binary xml error?
Sep 23 19:28:48 <zhobbs> I hate those
Sep 23 19:28:53 <erus`> i dont even know the error
Sep 23 19:28:56 <erus`> it wont say
Sep 23 19:29:09 <zhobbs> logcat?
Sep 23 19:32:21 <erus`> just got rid of xml layout
Sep 23 19:32:24 <erus`> dont need it
Sep 23 19:33:04 <plusminus_> your choice.............................................
Sep 23 19:33:36 <erus`> i dont i just had 1 custom view
Sep 23 19:35:47 <anno^da_> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobile-g1-video-hands-on/  <- Well that will be the comparisons we will see in the future on and on. :-)
Sep 23 19:43:04 <umdk1d3> okay, much needed code example on how to accurately detect and orient screen based on accelerometer
Sep 23 19:43:19 <umdk1d3> someone with a device really needs to write+release something like this
Sep 23 19:43:30 <umdk1d3> i saw it demoed with a video app on an engadget video
Sep 23 19:51:16 <unix_lappy> hmm, so the SDK doesnt include multitouch gestures?
Sep 23 19:51:35 <ralfwinz> unix_lappy, there is no multitouch support
Sep 23 19:52:02 <Terdhex> Does anyone if G1 is ressistive or capacitive?
Sep 23 19:52:11 <unix_lappy> ralfwinz: i get that, from what I heard on the video. it's not a hardware limitation.
Sep 23 19:52:52 <ralfwinz> unix_lappy, I believe it's not in the first hardware, ymmv
Sep 23 19:52:54 <umdk1d3> Terdhex: from all the vids it totally looks capacitive
Sep 23 19:53:22 <unix_lappy> ralfwinz: you mean in the Dream?
Sep 23 19:53:37 <ralfwinz> unix_lappy, is there any other hardware?
Sep 23 19:54:07 <unix_lappy> ralfwinz: i'm making the assumption that there will be support when more devices are introduced with multitouch.
Sep 23 19:54:10 <umdk1d3> ralfwinz: unix_lappy i heard a tmob guy in a video say no-multitouch was an IP-issue
Sep 23 19:54:39 <umdk1d3> i dont think the current touch apis support multitouch tho, /me chex
Sep 23 19:55:37 <umdk1d3> MotionEvent only has x,y,pressure,size currently
Sep 23 19:55:44 <gilead> umdk1d3: what does resistive/capacitive mean?
Sep 23 19:55:55 <unix_lappy> no, that was part of the question, is it a hardware issue, a software issue, an IP issue.
Sep 23 19:56:03 <gilead> never heard it in relation to cell phones :)
Sep 23 19:56:03 <umdk1d3> resistive is the touch screens everthing has had up to this point, like the n810 for example
Sep 23 19:56:03 <unix_lappy> it was a list of things, they were asking the rep.
Sep 23 19:56:13 <umdk1d3> or pretty much all winmo devices have resistive
Sep 23 19:56:26 <umdk1d3> iphone/ipod touch is first popular capacative device
Sep 23 19:56:27 <unix_lappy> the iphone is capacitive.
Sep 23 19:56:48 <unix_lappy> wait, removeable battery?
Sep 23 19:56:55 <umdk1d3> it really offers a real "touch" experience, because you dont need to apply force to trigger, like you do with a resistive screen
Sep 23 19:56:59 <mikez5> yes, removable battery
Sep 23 19:57:50 <gilead> umdk1d3: ah, you mean how the touch screen is built? Operated with stylus vs fingers?
Sep 23 19:58:12 <umdk1d3> kinda
Sep 23 19:58:19 <umdk1d3> stylus wouldnt work with capacitive
Sep 23 19:58:29 <gilead> cool, thanks :)
Sep 23 19:58:45 <ralfwinz> umdk1d3, apparently there are some capacitive-sepcific stylus(es?) out there
Sep 23 19:59:14 <erus`> i saw a stylus with a button on the side
Sep 23 19:59:22 <umdk1d3> oh nice @ ralfwinz wasnt aware of those
Sep 23 19:59:31 <erus`> and it was like right click if u touch while the button is pressed
Sep 23 20:00:27 <zhobbs> styluses are a pain
Sep 23 20:00:40 <jimmygoon> Did anyone else notice the latest videos on Android's homepage @ google ... seem politically inclined...
Sep 23 20:01:53 <unix_lappy> lol so that brings back multitouch, not currently available in the SDK, but not a hardware limitation or an IP limitation.
Sep 23 20:01:56 <unix_lappy> ?
Sep 23 20:03:15 <zhobbs> I assumed IP problem
Sep 23 20:04:18 <unix_lappy> dont think so, windows mobile doesnt seem to have that issue on the HD.
Sep 23 20:06:23 <unix_lappy> erm, HTC Touch HD.
Sep 23 20:08:04 <jimmygoon> Is android going to be supported on the HTC touch HD"?
Sep 23 20:09:21 <zhobbs> jimmygoon: similar chipset, so wouldn't be surprised if someone figures it out
Sep 23 20:14:07 <Dougie187> i wonder if there are going to be as many people in here tomrrow.
Sep 23 20:14:12 <umdk1d3> ooh nice /me buys   http://www.semsons.com/2miusband3st.html   extusb to headphone adapter
Sep 23 20:14:22 <umdk1d3> Dougie187: more or less?
Sep 23 20:14:27 <Dougie187> less
Sep 23 20:14:30 <Dougie187> after the hype dies off
Sep 23 20:15:04 <Dougie187> i assume a lot of the extra people are in here just because of the press release
Sep 23 20:15:13 <yakischloba> annoying
Sep 23 20:15:25 <Miek> umdk1d3: that's huge D:
Sep 23 20:15:36 <Dougie187> true yakischloba
Sep 23 20:17:08 <Dougie187> yakischloba: are you pleased with the results of today?
Sep 23 20:17:39 <Dougie187> (as in details of the phone and such)
Sep 23 20:18:06 <erus`> anyone know why invalidate might not be working?
Sep 23 20:19:16 <jimmygoon> 3.5 adapter + 1gb softcap + web scrolling render are a few downsides so far
Sep 23 20:19:19 <Dougie187> sad panda, only 1gb
Sep 23 20:19:23 <Dougie187> totally
Sep 23 20:19:27 <Dougie187> i just saw the 1gb cap
Sep 23 20:20:09 <jimmygoon> now... this: http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/09/fuzzyhd1.jpg with android = bliss
Sep 23 20:20:14 <yakischloba> Dougie187: i have mixed feelings about it
Sep 23 20:20:22 <unix_lappy> 1gb softcap?
Sep 23 20:20:33 <Dougie187> whats your downside yakischloba?
Sep 23 20:20:35 <unix_lappy> oh, bandwidth?  yea, major drag.
Sep 23 20:21:10 <Dougie187> jimmygoon: but it doesnt have wifi.
Sep 23 20:21:40 <umdk1d3> Dougie187: it does have wifi
Sep 23 20:21:41 <plusminus_> yeah, I assume that i switches to wifi-internet if possible...
Sep 23 20:21:54 <Dougie187> I thought the HD didn't have wifi.
Sep 23 20:21:55 <umdk1d3> oh wait
Sep 23 20:22:00 <umdk1d3> nvm different phone
Sep 23 20:22:03 <Dougie187> heh
Sep 23 20:22:16 <yakischloba> Dougie187: uhm...a little more propriety that I was hoping for. the 1GB thing is pretty absurd too.
Sep 23 20:22:31 <yakischloba> Dougie187: hopefully it'll get unlocked
Sep 23 20:22:52 <Dougie187> it probably will.
Sep 23 20:22:56 * unix_lappy has new found respect for the iphone.  
Sep 23 20:23:00 <umdk1d3> you cant even watch youtube on 50kbps  :/
Sep 23 20:23:09 * umdk1d3 wonders if youtube will be considered inside the walled garden tho
Sep 23 20:23:13 <Dougie187> thats another reason why tmobile blows.
Sep 23 20:23:15 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 23 20:23:32 <yakischloba> unfortunately other providers have ~5Gb caps too. Not that I think I'd use that much but..
Sep 23 20:23:43 <yakischloba> I duno. we'll have to see how it pans out.
Sep 23 20:24:04 <Dougie187> i think you would have a hard time to go over 5gb on a phone
Sep 23 20:24:06 <Dougie187> without tethering
Sep 23 20:24:06 <yakischloba> I hope people start doing 3rd party releases that don't have all the bullshit integrated (amazon for isntance)
Sep 23 20:24:16 <yakischloba> well I'll want to tether as well probably.
Sep 23 20:24:29 <Dougie187> me too, but most plans require another plan for tethering
Sep 23 20:24:32 <yakischloba> if ALL the source is really going to be open, they won't be able to prevent that
Sep 23 20:24:38 <yakischloba> (i don't think)
Sep 23 20:24:38 <jimmygoon> tethering would be cool, but its definetly not a deal maker/breaker for me
Sep 23 20:24:56 <anno^da_> Jabber/XMPP is a must for me
Sep 23 20:24:58 <jimmygoon> the HD not having wifi is a good point - I need that
Sep 23 20:25:00 <Dougie187> with a 1gb cap and tethering i think you would go over pretty quick.
Sep 23 20:25:05 <umdk1d3> teathering is less of an issue because the market is so open
Sep 23 20:25:17 <umdk1d3> people wanted to teather their iphones to get around all the apps that couldnt be included in the phone
Sep 23 20:25:21 <umdk1d3> *in the iphone app store
Sep 23 20:25:27 <jjshoe> on an old utstarcom I could toggle a setting so the telco couldn't tell I was teathering
Sep 23 20:26:14 <jjshoe> it was tough calling verizon when I'd hit 100gb and couldn't make a data connection :d
Sep 23 20:26:24 <Dougie187> hah
Sep 23 20:26:29 <jimmygoon> how exactly can they preven tit?
Sep 23 20:26:41 <erus`> android really is a pain to develop for
Sep 23 20:26:43 <Dougie187> well you usually have to put your phone into a mode.
Sep 23 20:26:43 <erus`> ...
Sep 23 20:27:09 <Dougie187> then they detect the PAM mode. and bill seperately for it.
Sep 23 20:27:41 <jimmygoon> oh
Sep 23 20:27:49 <unix_lappy> Dougie187: you didnt use it as a bt modem?
Sep 23 20:27:54 <jimmygoon> erus`, in what sense? I thought it seemed fairly straightforward?
Sep 23 20:28:08 <anno^da_> erus`: If you think so dont develope for Android.
Sep 23 20:28:16 <Dougie187> unix_lappy: what if your phone doesnt have bt?
Sep 23 20:28:26 <Dougie187> tethering has been around since before bt if i remember correctly.
Sep 23 20:29:29 <erus`> in the sense that stuff is going wrong and i have no idea whats causing it
Sep 23 20:29:40 <erus`> theres not enough info on the web about how to track issues
Sep 23 20:30:00 <jjshoe> erus` last I looked a lot of the docs were out of date, *shrug*
Sep 23 20:30:08 <jjshoe> sucks that the documentation doesn't get more love :\
Sep 23 20:30:13 <Prez00> erus: what other OSes have you developed for?  Just as a reference..
Sep 23 20:30:26 <erus`> windows, linux, windows mobile
Sep 23 20:30:45 <Prez00> erus`: and android is toughest?
Sep 23 20:30:50 <erus`> using C++, java and .net
Sep 23 20:30:54 <erus`> yes by far
Sep 23 20:30:59 <erus`> not the API as such
Sep 23 20:30:59 <tethridge> I'm surprised that the touch hd doesn't have wifi.  Why would they make such a kick-ass phone and then leave that out?
Sep 23 20:31:08 <erus`> the build environment and tools
Sep 23 20:31:14 <tethridge> you must not have used MFC
Sep 23 20:31:27 <zhobbs> tethridge: huh!?! I was excited about the HD too....
Sep 23 20:31:35 <tethridge> android is a lot more intuitive
Sep 23 20:32:00 <tethridge> zhobbs, I may be wrong, but I was reading what somebody else had written above.  I checked the specs and I can't find a mention of it
Sep 23 20:32:19 <erus`> when  my app starts it says that its not responding.... i set a break point on the onCreate function and its being called TWICE!?
Sep 23 20:32:22 <erus`> stuff like this
Sep 23 20:32:30 <tethridge> zhobbs, hey
Sep 23 20:32:31 <tethridge> it does
Sep 23 20:32:35 <tethridge> I found it
Sep 23 20:32:42 <tethridge> 802.11 b/g
Sep 23 20:32:43 <zhobbs> ok, cool
Sep 23 20:33:11 <tethridge> now the question is if they can keep the cool form factor and put android on it
Sep 23 20:33:23 <tethridge> I'm not sure if they require the extra buttons
Sep 23 20:33:24 <unix_lappy> and add a keyboard.
Sep 23 20:33:38 <tethridge> we don't need no stinkin' keyboard.  :-)
Sep 23 20:33:48 <zhobbs> they need a soft keyboard
Sep 23 20:34:02 <tethridge> yeah, but that's all I want
Sep 23 20:34:04 <zhobbs> even with the G1 seems like you'd want a soft keyboard as well
Sep 23 20:34:09 <tethridge> I can do without the dedicated keyboard
Sep 23 20:34:33 <harnir> G1 has no Esc, has it? anyway, can you run terminal on it?
Sep 23 20:37:55 <tethridge> how much memory does the g1 have?
Sep 23 20:38:04 <tethridge> it's expandable, but how much is built in?
Sep 23 20:38:07 <harnir> 128 MB RAM
Sep 23 20:38:18 <tethridge> what about for storage
Sep 23 20:38:53 <zhobbs> tethridge: http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html
Sep 23 20:39:08 <tethridge> thanks
Sep 23 20:39:33 <harnir> zhobbs: 404?
Sep 23 20:39:51 <zhobbs> harnir: hmm, works for me
Sep 23 20:40:05 <plusminus_> 192MB Ram
Sep 23 20:40:11 <plusminus_> 256 ROM
Sep 23 20:40:31 <harnir> zhobbs: I'm in Poland, maybe they lock their pages based on viewer's location? seem silly, but G1 is locked to US rgight now, so...
Sep 23 20:40:53 <Miek> i see it, in the uk
Sep 23 20:41:26 <harnir> wget says: 404: Not Found
Sep 23 20:41:31 <plusminus_> harnir:  proxy ?
Sep 23 20:41:32 <harnir> I'll try on different server
Sep 23 20:41:36 <harnir> plusminus_: no proxy
Sep 23 20:41:42 <plusminus_> use one ;)
Sep 23 20:42:02 * Miek breaks out wget -r
Sep 23 20:42:12 <harnir> why should I? I've heard that Android is an open platform, with no need for proxies...
Sep 23 20:42:27 <harnir> also 404 from Amsterdam...
Sep 23 20:42:45 <ulmen> works for me from germany
Sep 23 20:43:12 <harnir> I'll try from the us
Sep 23 20:43:13 <anno^da_> works for me from germany as well
Sep 23 20:43:29 <harnir> well, it's Deusche Telecom. duh.
Sep 23 20:44:17 <Miek> wtf
Sep 23 20:44:21 <Miek> curl works, wget doesn't
Sep 23 20:44:26 <harnir> hmm
Sep 23 20:44:42 <harnir> yeah, curl works...
Sep 23 20:44:51 <harnir> maybe they block User Agent?
Sep 23 20:44:57 <harnir> anyone with opera?
Sep 23 20:44:59 <harnir> or fx3?
Sep 23 20:45:01 <zhobbs> yeah, maybe
Sep 23 20:45:11 <zhobbs> works in opera for me
Sep 23 20:45:37 <harnir> well, very good first impressions so far, anyway.
Sep 23 20:45:50 <harnir> I wonder when G1 will be pwned
Sep 23 20:46:08 <jjshoe> http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html
Sep 23 20:46:09 <harnir> anyone bets for shorter time than the iPhone was?
Sep 23 20:46:11 <jjshoe> 404 not found in the us
Sep 23 20:46:12 <jjshoe> on ie7
Sep 23 20:46:24 <harnir> jjshoe: it's getting funnier by the minute :)
Sep 23 20:46:36 <harnir> ie7 blocked, fx3 blocked, wget blocked...
Sep 23 20:47:02 <zhobbs> maybe it's a load balancing thing and one of the servers hasn't picked up the latest...
Sep 23 20:47:04 <Miek> fx3 works fine for me
Sep 23 20:47:10 <Miek> i can't get it working faking the useragent with wget though
Sep 23 20:47:31 <Miek> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; sv-SE; rv:1.9.0.2) Gecko/2008090512 Firefox/3.0.2
Sep 23 20:47:35 <Miek> oops
Sep 23 20:47:48 <jjshoe> 404 for me in ff3
Sep 23 20:50:44 <erus`> when i override onkeydown in a view it seems to called called constantly and lock the application :O
Sep 23 20:51:41 <Miek> ah, it seems to just be the dns entry
Sep 23 20:51:51 <jjshoe> yeah, their dns looks fubar
Sep 23 20:51:59 <jjshoe> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
Sep 23 20:51:59 <jjshoe> www.htc.com.            43200   IN      CNAME   www.htc.com.edgesuite.net.
Sep 23 20:52:04 <Miek> 82.112.115.41 is the working one
Sep 23 20:52:05 <jjshoe> missed a period somewhere
Sep 23 20:52:21 <harnir> so much for a telephone company... and I thought Google would help them with spreading the word out ;-)
Sep 23 20:52:22 <Miek> my server resolves to 91.103.32.76 and fails
Sep 23 20:52:30 <f00f-> this candy tastes like it has melanin in it
Sep 23 20:53:34 <jasta> so, the browser seemed really slow when zoomed out on a web page
Sep 23 20:53:38 <jasta> did anyone else catch that?
Sep 23 20:55:03 <anno^da_> Yeah
Sep 23 20:55:09 <anno^da_> saw that on some demo videos
Sep 23 20:55:23 <anno^da_> But the experience in the emulator wasnt that well either for me
Sep 23 20:55:34 <anno^da_> (from the browser)
Sep 23 20:55:35 <jasta> so im wondering...
Sep 23 20:55:48 <jasta> maybe its just gonna be slow for 1.0
Sep 23 20:55:49 <jasta> sucky
Sep 23 20:56:35 <erus`> can anyone experienced help me with a problem?
Sep 23 20:56:48 <erus`> o its working now :)
Sep 23 20:56:48 <jasta> erus`: possibly, just ask
Sep 23 20:57:02 <erus`> but it still says not responding when it first starts
Sep 23 20:57:33 <zhobbs> erus`: you can't do work in the UI thread
Sep 23 20:57:35 <ulmen> i hope opera provides an updated package sometime
Sep 23 20:57:39 <erus`> could it be an artifact of dynamicly allocating my view on app start
Sep 23 20:57:58 <jasta> erus`: don't block in your UI thread, as zhobbs said.
Sep 23 20:58:02 <chomchom> Does anyone know either of the guys that developed Enkin?
Sep 23 20:58:26 <erus`> setContentView(new myView(this)); //thats the only line that would block
Sep 23 20:58:47 <jasta> well maybe it does.  attach to a debugger.
Sep 23 20:59:15 <chomchom> I'm going to be in Japan in Japan next month and if anyone could get me a hook up it would be appreciated, may as well chat with them if I'm there.
Sep 23 20:59:19 <anno^da_> When asked about what T-Mobile's reaction would be to users creating tethering or unlocking apps for the phone, he was surprisingly even-keeled, noting that while the company didn't encourage the practice, they wouldn't lock down the OS or update the software to break those applications.  <- Have you read that. Sounds good. (I just dont believe that :D)
Sep 23 20:59:31 <anno^da_> Source: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/#
Sep 23 20:59:53 <Miek> i also read the bit after it :p
Sep 23 21:00:02 <anno^da_> :-)
Sep 23 21:00:40 <umdk1d3> yay
Sep 23 21:00:42 <umdk1d3> unlocked phonez
Sep 23 21:00:44 <umdk1d3> "More interestingly, buyers would be able to have access to a "contract free" G1 (with a price point of $399), and could unlock the device with T-Mobile's blessing after 90 days."
Sep 23 21:00:48 <umdk1d3> --accd to that article above
Sep 23 21:01:13 <anno^da_> Yeah that sounds nice if it turns out to be true.
Sep 23 21:01:35 <jjshoe> More interestingly, buyers would be able to have access to a "contract free" G1 (with a price point of $399), and could unlock the device with T-Mobile's blessing after 90 days. Brodman also said that the company's policy of unlocking phones for customers in good standing wouldn't change for this phone.
Sep 23 21:01:41 <Miek> though i just want android on the phone i already have :>
Sep 23 21:01:42 <jjshoe> now who in here said I couldn't get one unlocked?
Sep 23 21:01:42 <jjshoe> lol
Sep 23 21:01:58 <anno^da_> Why didnt they say that in the conference. They would have avoided bad press. :-)
Sep 23 21:02:31 <umdk1d3> i think they wanted to avoid the larger price point
Sep 23 21:02:35 <umdk1d3> might confuse people
Sep 23 21:02:48 <anno^da_> Well ok.
Sep 23 21:04:34 <jjshoe> f00f-
Sep 23 21:04:50 <jjshoe> f00f- http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/# unlocked for $400
Sep 23 21:04:51 <anno^da_> But the missing headphone jack sucks to hell. I hate that proprietary connectors. :/
Sep 23 21:05:11 <Miek> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000UUQGEY
Sep 23 21:05:16 <jimmygoon> you can buy 11pin to 3.5 mm jacks on amazon for 4 or 5 dollars
Sep 23 21:05:44 <f00f-> nice
Sep 23 21:05:51 <zhobbs> jimmygoon: yeah, but you can't listen and charge unless you have another adapter
Sep 23 21:06:02 <anno^da_> True. But then you have another connector sticking out of your phone ...
Sep 23 21:06:06 <jimmygoon> zhobbs, ugh, good point
Sep 23 21:06:12 <anno^da_> It looks just crappy.
Sep 23 21:06:17 <Miek> zhobbs: is that a big issue?
Sep 23 21:06:22 <f00f-> just hack it
Sep 23 21:06:24 <f00f-> firmware mod it
Sep 23 21:06:29 <f00f-> and give it A2DP
Sep 23 21:06:36 <Miek> i listen to music on a mobile device when i'm... mobile
Sep 23 21:06:36 <zhobbs> you can listen and charge with this: http://store.mobilitytoday.com/content/accessories/73-177--3571.htm
Sep 23 21:06:40 <jimmygoon> anno^da_, yeah, I am trying to rationalize it by saying that its going to be a cord one way or another... it will just be two cords connected, its lame but... eh
Sep 23 21:06:55 <zhobbs> Miek: might be good for work or library, etc
Sep 23 21:07:05 <anno^da_> jimmygoon: Sure I have to live with that point. It just sucks. :-)
Sep 23 21:07:31 <Miek> hmm, true
Sep 23 21:07:37 <jimmygoon> I just want it so I can go ahead and hack some adapters into my car
Sep 23 21:07:44 <Miek> i dunno, i haven't had any issue with using it for my kaiser
Sep 23 21:08:21 <lesceil> so is google going to help t-mobile get more coverage? Because I am in the middle of san francisco where a lot of businesses are, and I still don't have a signal inside of my building
Sep 23 21:08:29 <zhobbs> jimmygoon: yeah, we need a dock for the car with charger, aux out, fm modulator, and good turn by turn gps software
Sep 23 21:08:31 <lesceil> I hate having to take a walk for a phonecall
Sep 23 21:08:49 <jimmygoon> :D that would be cool, I want to actually hack an AUX connection into my honda htough
Sep 23 21:08:50 <anno^da_> The thing is that this is not the experience I expect from a great hardware.
Sep 23 21:09:02 <jimmygoon> but having a "dock" would be awesome for hte gps software
Sep 23 21:09:02 <f00f-> it supports headset and handsfree profiles i thought?
Sep 23 21:09:18 <jimmygoon> no a2dp
Sep 23 21:09:19 <f00f-> doesnt support remote sim afaik
Sep 23 21:09:19 <anno^da_> No A2DP
Sep 23 21:09:33 <lesceil> a2dp is gonna be there tho
Sep 23 21:09:36 <lesceil> it
Sep 23 21:09:40 <lesceil> it's just not part of the 1.0 release
Sep 23 21:09:45 <jimmygoon> hopefully when they get the bt module updated
Sep 23 21:09:57 <f00f-> video capture is BS too
Sep 23 21:10:04 <f00f-> but that's a technical challenge
Sep 23 21:10:16 <f00f-> since video capture chip actually has 2 modes in hardware
Sep 23 21:10:20 <f00f-> still vs motion
Sep 23 21:10:28 <lesceil> maybe I should wait for the G2... just like the iphone needed a second generation to be worth adopting
Sep 23 21:10:41 <jimmygoon> well, I'm stuck waiting for verizon anyway
Sep 23 21:10:48 <anno^da_> Well the good point is that we can wait for other phones to appear with Android ;)
Sep 23 21:10:54 <f00f-> good luck jimmy, it'll be years
Sep 23 21:10:58 <zhobbs> lesceil: hopefully we'll see a handful of phones from other oem's too
Sep 23 21:11:04 <f00f-> yeah watch out for samsung, lg, and motorola
Sep 23 21:11:11 <lesceil> I would not be too surprised if palm is going to surprise us with that
Sep 23 21:11:14 <jimmygoon> How do you know????
Sep 23 21:11:22 <f00f-> seeing job offers for a motorola division already
Sep 23 21:11:24 <f00f-> for android dev
Sep 23 21:11:29 <Miek> the touch hd would be rather nice
Sep 23 21:11:43 <jimmygoon> It better not be years. I've literally been waiting 2 years to get a new mp3 player and phone  waiting for basically this pohne
Sep 23 21:11:55 <jimmygoon> Miek, no wifi though, otherwise it seems nicer than the g1
Sep 23 21:12:11 <jjshoe> f00f- really?
Sep 23 21:12:19 <lesceil> jimmygoon: hehe... I had a generation 1  iphone for a week and then went back to my treo 680 waiting for an android alternative
Sep 23 21:12:25 <Miek> but it does have wifi
Sep 23 21:12:31 <Miek> i dunno where this rumour came from
Sep 23 21:12:46 <jimmygoon> Miek, it DOES? Then why is that not the Android launch device???/
Sep 23 21:12:50 <Miek> http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=64796
Sep 23 21:13:52 <jimmygoon> I'm on that exact page :P and I don't see wifi to be honest
Sep 23 21:14:04 <jimmygoon> oop, I see it
Sep 23 21:14:04 <Miek> Connectivity 	Bluetooth� 2.0 with Enhanced Data Rate and A2DP for wireless stereo headsets
Sep 23 21:14:04 <Miek> Wi-Fi�: IEEE 802.11 b/g
Sep 23 21:14:05 <Miek> HTC ExtUSB. (11-pin mini-USB 2.0)
Sep 23 21:14:09 <Miek> :>
Sep 23 21:14:34 <Miek> even has the 3.5mm jack!
Sep 23 21:14:37 <jimmygoon> wowie wow. that phone is like better than the g1 in almost all ways
Sep 23 21:14:50 <jimmygoon> 3.5mm + thinner
Sep 23 21:15:01 <f00f-> jjshoe: yeah, just search for `android` on job sites
Sep 23 21:15:06 <f00f-> you can get an idea
Sep 23 21:15:10 <f00f-> of who's doing what
Sep 23 21:15:31 <Miek> it seems like they've made it with android in mind, it's got the right buttons instead of the winmo specific ones they usually have
Sep 23 21:16:22 <jimmygoon> still gsm though, I need cdma!!!
Sep 23 21:16:38 <lesceil> so whats the deal with amazon audible?
Sep 23 21:16:50 * Miek huggles hsdpa
Sep 23 21:17:38 <Miek> lesceil: ?
Sep 23 21:17:44 * jimmygoon punches verizon
Sep 23 21:18:26 <jimmygoon> I guess I could pay for my own cell phone plan, but for now my mom is nice enough to keep me on her plan so I *try* to complain less
Sep 23 21:19:10 <jasta> if i cant unlock the g1, i might just buy one and have a t-mobile contract to "try" for a year
Sep 23 21:19:15 <jasta> and possibly just carry around both phones
Sep 23 21:19:31 <jasta> cancel AT&T if its good enough service with compelling features on android
Sep 23 21:19:35 <jasta> otehrwise, the g1 will just be my dev phone
Sep 23 21:19:55 <jasta> my work already pays for my personal phone, so ... :)
Sep 23 21:20:27 <f00f-> no 3G on AT&T though
Sep 23 21:20:28 <jjshoe> jasta you can get one for $400 supposidly.
Sep 23 21:21:14 <jasta> f00f-: why not?
Sep 23 21:21:26 <f00f-> unless it has UMTS 850 or UMTS 1900
Sep 23 21:21:29 <f00f-> T-Mobile uses different frequencies
Sep 23 21:21:41 <f00f-> notably 1700 MHz iirc
Sep 23 21:21:48 <jasta> i know, but they said its dual band 3G.  i thought there were only 2 bands?
Sep 23 21:22:01 <erus`> OpenGLContext <-- eclipse cant find it :( any  idead?
Sep 23 21:22:08 <erus`> tryed autofix imports
Sep 23 21:22:21 <f00f-> UMTS 2100 is most widely deployed, in your ireland for example
Sep 23 21:22:33 <f00f-> yeah i dont know what "dual band" they meant
Sep 23 21:22:39 <f00f-> perhaps a 1700/2100 combination
Sep 23 21:22:42 <jasta> ahh, i didnt realize.
Sep 23 21:22:50 <f00f-> hopefully, making it usable overseas at least
Sep 23 21:23:16 <jasta> are there no details on the frequencies?
Sep 23 21:23:25 <jasta> used by the g1, i mean
Sep 23 21:23:37 <f00f-> wow, i didn't know the iPhone supports 850/1900/2100
Sep 23 21:23:42 <f00f-> for 3G
Sep 23 21:23:54 <f00f-> hmm, i haven't seen a spec sheet floating around
Sep 23 21:24:54 <erus`> anyone get opengl to work in here?
Sep 23 21:27:56 <lesceil> another surprise: HTC has also been unable to implement multi-touch due to Apple's patents.
Sep 23 21:30:05 <AttractiveApe> fucking patents.
Sep 23 21:30:57 <jimmygoon> I can hardly even believe that something like that can even be patented
Sep 23 21:32:19 <dmoffett> Yeah that really sucks.  How can that be?  After Apple ripped off the mouse from Xerox park.
Sep 23 21:32:37 <f00f-> i'm not fundamentally against patents, just against excessive royalties
Sep 23 21:32:40 <umdk1d3> ooh im going to be in mountainview tomorrow
Sep 23 21:32:52 <umdk1d3> anybody up for grabbing food in the evening?
Sep 23 21:32:57 <SanMehat> I'm down.
Sep 23 21:32:58 <f00f-> umdk1d3: ?!!
Sep 23 21:33:04 <Terdhex> anyvody in Miami?
Sep 23 21:33:06 <f00f-> yeah for sure
Sep 23 21:33:48 <unix_lappy> re one account per phone, meaning you cant access content from your other accounts?
Sep 23 21:34:20 <f00f-> Terdhex: no, i wish
Sep 23 21:36:05 <anno^da_> unix_lappy: Where did you read that ?
Sep 23 21:36:18 <dmoffett> f00f: but a gesture?  I can understand somewhat if you patent an idea that cost a lot of money to develop.
Sep 23 21:36:59 <f00f-> patents are a way to protect things
Sep 23 21:37:10 <unix_lappy> http://gizmodo.com/5053747/android-and-t+mobile-g1s-five-most-obnoxious-flaws
Sep 23 21:37:11 <f00f-> agreed, only good guys should patent things and then either give them for free or at reasonable royalty rates
Sep 23 21:37:14 <unix_lappy> anno^da_: ^^
Sep 23 21:38:04 <unix_lappy> which patents?
Sep 23 21:38:17 <f00f-> like the iphone multi-touch one
Sep 23 21:38:19 <f00f-> for instance
Sep 23 21:38:30 <jasta> so...
Sep 23 21:38:31 <f00f-> usually they're stuck for a little time
Sep 23 21:38:32 <jasta> whats the consensus on GPS?
Sep 23 21:38:35 <f00f-> until someone figures out another way to do it
Sep 23 21:38:43 <jasta> i havent seen confirmation anywhere official that says GPS support is there?
Sep 23 21:39:09 <jimmygoon> most of the things in that article are extremely petty and are things that will be fixed
Sep 23 21:39:39 <anno^da_> jasta. AGPS support is there
Sep 23 21:39:51 <jimmygoon> what exactly does the android java editor do differently from the default eclipse java editor/
Sep 23 21:40:10 <jasta> anno^da_: how do we know?
Sep 23 21:40:30 <anno^da_> http://androidcommunity.com/778-20080923/
Sep 23 21:40:34 <illuminum> so am I going to be able to get into the linux subsystem on my gphone like i can get into the bsd subsystem on my iphone?
Sep 23 21:41:02 <illuminum> i want to frollick on the shell with toolchains and gcc and ssh and such you know?
Sep 23 21:41:13 <jimmygoon> illuminum, if the app exists...
Sep 23 21:41:21 <anno^da_> @jasta: 	GPS navigation capability with built-in GPS receiver and map software
Sep 23 21:41:26 <illuminum> the app?
Sep 23 21:41:29 <illuminum> you mean bash?
Sep 23 21:41:29 <anno^da_> Source: http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html
Sep 23 21:41:33 <illuminum> bash ported to android?
Sep 23 21:41:34 <jimmygoon> I can access the subsystem in the emulator when its attached to the debugger in eclipse
Sep 23 21:41:41 <jasta> anno^da_: i get a 404 on that page
Sep 23 21:41:45 <jimmygoon> illuminum, sure
Sep 23 21:41:49 <illuminum> does gcc need to get ported to android too?
Sep 23 21:42:05 <illuminum> wouldn't that be insanely difficult?
Sep 23 21:42:08 <jimmygoon> not sure, the android apps are java based
Sep 23 21:42:20 <jasta> why on earth would you port gcc to android?  gcc happily can cross compile to android.
Sep 23 21:42:35 <jasta> i mean, not that it would be hard.  you'd just cross compile gcc itself to port it.
Sep 23 21:42:35 <illuminum> yeah but all the pre-existing linux apps compile with gcc
Sep 23 21:42:39 <jasta> but im just saying, why would you?
Sep 23 21:42:50 <jasta> illuminum: do you have any idea what youre talking about?  me thinks not.
Sep 23 21:42:58 <illuminum> so that you can port projects like vlc and mplayer
Sep 23 21:43:00 <zhobbs> illuminum: you can get a shell
Sep 23 21:43:03 <illuminum> no jasta not really, i'm asking
Sep 23 21:43:12 <illuminum> i don't have too much of a clue thats why i ask
Sep 23 21:43:14 <anno^da_> @jasta: http://img.skitch.com/20080923-gqbj8yc27tn8k1y1cep4bgsnai.jpg
Sep 23 21:43:22 <lesceil>  I just loaded 'helloactivity' into eclipse and ran it. I am surprised how long it takes me to find out where the string is defined... maybe I should read the docs? :)
Sep 23 21:43:33 <lesceil> res/values/strings aha
Sep 23 21:43:41 <illuminum> i ask because i'm concerned about projects like mplayer and vlc
Sep 23 21:44:00 <illuminum> i wonder how feasible it would be to port opensource projects like mplayer and vlc or apache to the android platform
Sep 23 21:44:00 <jasta> illuminum: projects like mplayer won't be ported for lots of reasons.  way too heavy, and android has its own windowing and drawing system on top of linux fb, which mplayer would need to be made aware of to work well.
Sep 23 21:44:08 <jasta> this won't happen because the work involved is staggering and pointless
Sep 23 21:44:22 <illuminum> well what about other opensource projects in general, like apache or ruby
Sep 23 21:44:22 <jimmygoon> Try values/strings.xml
Sep 23 21:44:26 <jasta> other projects which dont need the framebuffer, like apache as you mention, can be compiled right now to android with a cross compiler.
Sep 23 21:44:27 <jimmygoon> Makes sense to me :)
Sep 23 21:44:59 <jimmygoon> why one would want apache on a phone is beyond me
Sep 23 21:45:08 <jasta> gcc is a cross compiler, it can be used to build binaries for target hosts other than the building host.
Sep 23 21:45:31 <jasta> you just download the arm cross compiling binaries (google for native android apps, you'll find howtos)
Sep 23 21:45:44 <illuminum> thanks jasta
Sep 23 21:46:06 <jasta> this has nothing to do with "porting to android", however, as Android runs Linux and has a compliant C library.
Sep 23 21:46:08 <SanMehat> ginge: did you get the new sdcc driver?
Sep 23 21:46:13 <jasta> so anything that depends on either of those two will work just fine.
Sep 23 21:46:20 <SanMehat> doh wrong channel
Sep 23 21:46:22 <jasta> i mean, on both of those two ;)
Sep 23 21:46:30 <illuminum> thats good
Sep 23 21:46:39 <jasta> illuminum: there's nothing magical about android, is what i'm trying to sya.
Sep 23 21:47:20 <illuminum> well yeah, the reason i preordered today was because i was under the impression what i was really buying was an opensource linux phone
Sep 23 21:47:35 <unix_lappy> actually, most of the gripes have been hardware related things as well as things beyond googles reach.
Sep 23 21:47:38 <ulmen> on a real device running native apps might be a little bit more challenging ... i guess they won't have the adb shell command =)
Sep 23 21:47:39 <illuminum> then i started to get worried thinking that everything would necessarily have to be abstracted around the android sdk
Sep 23 21:48:07 <jasta> illuminum: you are not buying an open source linux phone.  that was a mistake if that was your goal.
Sep 23 21:48:13 <illuminum> how so?
Sep 23 21:48:47 <jasta> there is no pledge of genuine hacker openness by any member of the OHA, including Google.  no one will guarantee you the ability to freely interact with the low level pieces of your phone, and no one guarantees that you will have the necessary tools to do that conveniently.
Sep 23 21:49:01 <jasta> this is totally unlike, for instance, OpenMoko.
Sep 23 21:49:02 <unix_lappy> so i'm still quite impressed, but surprised that someone would issue a patent for some of the multi touch things apple has going on.
Sep 23 21:49:04 <SanMehat> jasta: are you back from ireland *already*?
Sep 23 21:49:15 <SanMehat> :)
Sep 23 21:49:16 <illuminum> what? the linux kernel is open source
Sep 23 21:49:18 <SanMehat> (welcome back btw)
Sep 23 21:49:32 <illuminum> is the software not open source at the lowest level?
Sep 23 21:49:43 <jasta> illuminum: the linux kernel has nothing to do with it.  stop being so dense.
Sep 23 21:49:51 <illuminum> how does the linux kernel have nothing to do with it?
Sep 23 21:49:55 <ulmen> illuminum: think of flashing the phone with your own image
Sep 23 21:50:09 <harnir> I wonder if I can install different Linux distribution on G1 than Android...
Sep 23 21:50:38 <jasta> illuminum: as ulmen pointed out, what if the tool to build lfashable images isnt available?  or the build environemnt doesnt package everyhting you need?  then what do you do?  what if you can't get a shell via usb?  what if <insert other horribly evils here>?
Sep 23 21:51:17 <illuminum> but thats not going to happen
Sep 23 21:51:21 <jasta> the point is, these things may be there, but they aren't part of the package you're buying.  they aren't being guaranteed, so if you bought something expecting them as a given you are likely to be quite surprised by the OHA's policies.
Sep 23 21:51:22 <illuminum> as long as you can flash it you can write a new kernel
Sep 23 21:51:25 <illuminum> is that right or wrong?
Sep 23 21:51:38 <harnir> illuminum: so, you know that you can flash it?
Sep 23 21:51:54 <illuminum> yeah i'm 98.6% sure you can
Sep 23 21:52:06 <jasta> illuminum: no, you're not.
Sep 23 21:52:09 <harnir> and what's with those 1.4%?
Sep 23 21:52:13 <jasta> you're making an assumption based on information you were not given.
Sep 23 21:52:23 <jasta> you're being a fool.
Sep 23 21:52:24 <illuminum> i'm subjectively gauging probability
Sep 23 21:52:35 * lesceil really wants a netbook running linux, having say verizon 3G and voip like skype and full root access
Sep 23 21:52:41 <illuminum> i think if you don't weigh magnitude and frequency of risks and gauge the probability of things you're a fool
Sep 23 21:52:45 <harnir> well, we will see anyway when first phones start to hit the street
Sep 23 21:52:59 <illuminum> seriously why is google going to pull a 180 and lock their shit left and right like apple and microsoft?
Sep 23 21:53:03 <illuminum> does that make sense to you?
Sep 23 21:53:18 <jasta> illuminum: they aren't pulling a 180, as early as march it was known that the phone would be locked.
Sep 23 21:53:40 <jjshoe> jasta you can get it unlocked for $400, I sent you the link.
Sep 23 21:53:45 <jasta> and yes, it does make sense to me.  google doesn't call the shots here.
Sep 23 21:53:45 <illuminum> to an extent it's locked because that's how the industry works, phone companies have to make some subsidies back
Sep 23 21:53:48 <harnir> illuminum: AFAIK Android is not released as of yet as an open source os?
Sep 23 21:54:03 <jasta> harnir: that is true.
Sep 23 21:54:10 <lesceil> so will openmoko ever happen? Or is it another case of hurd
Sep 23 21:54:26 <illuminum> it would be a strategic blunder for google to do anything short of releasing the code completely open source
Sep 23 21:54:26 <harnir> lesceil: if not openmoko, then Debian - works already
Sep 23 21:54:29 <jasta> jjshoe: SIM unlocked is not the issue we're discussing here.
Sep 23 21:54:39 <illuminum> how would google get the support of open source developers if they didnt?
Sep 23 21:54:58 <unix_lappy> you can sim unlock 90 days after.
Sep 23 21:55:09 <jjshoe> lesceil technically it has "happened" no?
Sep 23 21:55:09 <jimmygoon> how would google get the support of phone companies if they did
Sep 23 21:55:21 <illuminum> well apparently they did
Sep 23 21:55:22 <erus`> i want something as small as a phone but unfolds into a fully fledged laptop when i need to do propper computer stuff
Sep 23 21:55:30 <lesceil> jjshoe: really? where can I get it
Sep 23 21:55:32 <SanMehat> i want a teleporter
Sep 23 21:55:33 <illuminum> thats what the open handset alliance is about -- the inevitability of the thing
Sep 23 21:55:34 <jjshoe> erus` I agree.
Sep 23 21:55:36 <jjshoe> lesceil google.
Sep 23 21:55:36 <AttractiveApe> erus`: keep dreaming.
Sep 23 21:55:43 <erus`> give it 20 years
Sep 23 21:55:47 <jasta> illuminum: are you new to this community, by the way?  there have been atrocious evils committed by google over the past 9 months ;)
Sep 23 21:55:49 <harnir> lesceil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions
Sep 23 21:55:51 <illuminum> embracing the inevitable change rather than continuing to fight it as your company becomes extinct
Sep 23 21:56:06 <jjshoe> lesceil http://www.openmoko.com/product.html
Sep 23 21:56:17 <AttractiveApe> erus`: good argument.
Sep 23 21:56:19 <illuminum> yeah i'm new to this community, i was under the impression google was a bunch of linux geeks with noble goals
Sep 23 21:56:21 <illuminum> maybe i'm wrong
Sep 23 21:56:32 <umdk1d3> wtf dollar rent a car doesnt support linux useragent strings
Sep 23 21:56:36 <jasta> illuminum: you are wrong.
Sep 23 21:56:37 <SanMehat> illuminum: we are, and we do :)
Sep 23 21:56:37 <jimmygoon> heh
Sep 23 21:56:38 <AttractiveApe> the people working there, maybe.  Their managers?  No.
Sep 23 21:56:59 <lesceil> jjshoe: The requested URL /distributors-america.html was not found on this server.
Sep 23 21:57:23 <jimmygoon> Is the "atrocious" errors including the limited release SDK?
Sep 23 21:57:23 <jasta> illuminum: google is under pressure and with obligations that you or i are not privy to.  leave it at that.
Sep 23 21:57:25 <gambler> It looks like bouncy castle has been removed from 1.0?
Sep 23 21:57:44 <illuminum> i think if anyone could exert pressure its google
Sep 23 21:57:45 <jasta> jimmygoon: the NDA'd release, yes.
Sep 23 21:57:45 <lesceil> ah I found it.
Sep 23 21:58:02 <jasta> illuminum: unlikely.  wireless carriers are more powerful collectively than google.
Sep 23 21:58:22 <jasta> they, combined with manufacturers, own every bit of this industry, and control entry exclusively.
Sep 23 21:58:24 <illuminum> the power of network-effects under peer-production and the size of google's network has gone well beyond critical mass
Sep 23 21:58:42 <illuminum> google is like a huge massive object in space pulling everything around it with its gravity
Sep 23 21:58:48 <jasta> illuminum: let me pose this argument to you: why so far are only the two smallest US carriers on board?
Sep 23 21:58:48 <jimmygoon> jasta, that was pretty lame but it sees fairly minor
Sep 23 21:58:53 <erus`> android doesn't treat Rect's width and height as proportional to x and y
Sep 23 21:58:58 <erus`> thats not very standard!
Sep 23 21:59:07 <ulmen> if openmokos freerunner handset wasn't that bad, i'd buy one of thoose. because porting the android stack to openmoko actually is something the android opensource-ness (almost) guarantees to be possible
Sep 23 21:59:09 <illuminum> because the big ones are evil and want to play divide and conquer jasta
Sep 23 21:59:15 <illuminum> just like microsoft and apple
Sep 23 21:59:20 <illuminum> they're dinosaurs going extinct
Sep 23 21:59:27 <jasta> and the small ones are intrinsicly not evil?
Sep 23 21:59:42 <lesceil> mhm, $400 for a gsm phone without 3G?
Sep 23 21:59:45 <jasta> intrinsically*
Sep 23 21:59:54 <illuminum> the small ones realize that there competitive advantage lies with embracing peer-production/foss
Sep 23 22:00:03 <jimmygoon> um, we just have the sdk, not the stack, how exactly would the "community" port it to openmoko's phone?
Sep 23 22:00:16 <jimmygoon> or has google released the stack
Sep 23 22:00:29 <harnir> jimmygoon: we have to wait until google releases the sources
Sep 23 22:00:30 <ulmen> not yet, but this is something promised
Sep 23 22:00:42 <jimmygoon> harnir, are they still saying "we will .... eventually"
Sep 23 22:00:49 <SanMehat> jimmygoon: we will.
Sep 23 22:00:52 <jjshoe> lesceil worked for me without an issue, found a distrbutor in long beach, ca.
Sep 23 22:00:55 <jasta> jimmygoon: they are saying Q4.
Sep 23 22:01:06 <jimmygoon> SanMehat, hello.
Sep 23 22:01:12 <SanMehat> jimmygoon: hi
Sep 23 22:01:13 <jasta> and the source is likely to include just the stack, not necessarily any proprietary drivers or apps (like google maps, etc)
Sep 23 22:01:23 <jimmygoon> jasta, sure, that seems reasonable
Sep 23 22:01:24 <jasta> so don't be too surprised by that ;)
Sep 23 22:01:35 <harnir> jasta: like Darwin? ;-)
Sep 23 22:01:37 <jasta> jimmygoon: agreed, and fortunately with OpenMoko's case you wouldn't need any drivers from them
Sep 23 22:01:47 <harnir> just the console mode, no graphics? ;-)
Sep 23 22:01:51 <jimmygoon> damn, debian on openmoko has an impressive list of stuff it supports
Sep 23 22:02:14 <SanMehat> jimmygoon: all kernel drivers will come with source. In fact, we've been constantly pushing base msm driver support to http://git.android.com
Sep 23 22:02:19 <jasta> harnir: no no, nothing like that.  the full stack is going to get released, im certain of that.
Sep 23 22:02:47 <jasta> SanMehat: well, currently that is the case.  you can't speak to all the members of the OHA, can you?
Sep 23 22:03:13 <harnir> going asleep, good night
Sep 23 22:03:13 <SanMehat> jasta: I may be bald, but my head is *not* a crystal ball. Is yours?
Sep 23 22:03:20 <_avatar> ugh. this is getting ridiculous to listen to.
Sep 23 22:03:29 <f00f-> welcome to #android
Sep 23 22:03:40 <jasta> SanMehat: well you said all kernel drivers will come with source.  do you mean the G1 exclusively?
Sep 23 22:03:45 * jimmygoon rolls his eyes
Sep 23 22:03:55 <SanMehat> jasta: No i obviously meant every kernel driver *ever* in the history of kernel drivers.
Sep 23 22:03:58 <_avatar> google is obviously pushing as hard as they can to release the sources to as much as they can. what more do you want?
Sep 23 22:04:13 <jjshoe> a road map?
Sep 23 22:04:14 <jjshoe> and a pony
Sep 23 22:04:16 <jjshoe> I'd like a pony
Sep 23 22:04:22 <jasta> SanMehat: i'm not trying to be philosophical, i'm just trying to understand what you actually just said.
Sep 23 22:04:23 <SanMehat> I can only talk about the hardware I know, and yes.. all the G1 kernel drivers will be released in the source
Sep 23 22:04:29 <SanMehat> jjshoe: I also want a pony.
Sep 23 22:04:46 <jimmygoon> I just want android on the hd touch
Sep 23 22:04:55 <jimmygoon> :) more fun than a pony
Sep 23 22:04:57 <jasta> jimmygoon: good luck.  the hardware is probably totally different.
Sep 23 22:05:25 <SanMehat> really?
Sep 23 22:05:27 <jasta> SanMehat: that's certainly impressive.  i actually thought all aong that git repository was coincidentally for the G1, and really more for your prototype
Sep 23 22:05:51 <SanMehat> jasta: Nope. As we brought up parts of the chipset we released them
Sep 23 22:05:58 <jasta> Qualcomm's stepping it up, eh? :)
Sep 23 22:06:20 <jasta> well actually how does that work, it isn't even there code?  did google just volunteer to implement their drivers for free in exchange for the right to distribute them open source?
Sep 23 22:06:26 <jasta> their*
Sep 23 22:06:26 <SanMehat> We've worked very hard with the vendors to impress upon them the need for open sourcing components...
Sep 23 22:06:38 <jjshoe> well, I've been a bit of a dick on what I think of the g1, but one things for sure
Sep 23 22:06:52 <jjshoe> it looks like a great starting point, and it lets many of us play with our phones in a way we couldn't before
Sep 23 22:06:58 <jjshoe> so on that note, I will say thank you to the google team
Sep 23 22:07:09 <SanMehat> On behalf of the team.. thanks :)
Sep 23 22:07:12 <SanMehat> Dan :)
Sep 23 22:07:12 <morrildl> 103 users
Sep 23 22:07:14 <jasta> SanMehat: and yes, i'm back from Ireland *already* :)
Sep 23 22:07:14 <SanMehat> hows NYC?
Sep 23 22:07:19 <f00f-> uh oh, morrildl is sporting vzw!
Sep 23 22:07:20 <morrildl> We must be doing something right
Sep 23 22:07:30 <yakischloba> morrildl, yeah bulldoze some of them out of here
Sep 23 22:07:32 <morrildl> hahahahahaha
Sep 23 22:07:34 <SanMehat> morrildl: I was offering free naked pics of you.. it brought a lot of people in.
Sep 23 22:07:35 <morrildl> It's my corporate 3G laptop card
Sep 23 22:07:39 <yakischloba> treason
Sep 23 22:07:42 <morrildl> don't start any rumors, f00f-
Sep 23 22:07:50 <f00f-> k :)
Sep 23 22:07:56 <morrildl> ;)
Sep 23 22:08:25 <illuminum> i pre-ordered at 11:00 am this morning. my crApple spyPhone is going to craigslist
Sep 23 22:08:36 <illuminum> it's not about form and sexy curves, its about open source
Sep 23 22:09:11 <jimmygoon> SanMehat, you all in talks with Verizon?
Sep 23 22:11:53 <kingkung> hey guys
Sep 23 22:12:10 <kingkung> android question (sorry i'm not contributing to launch talk)
Sep 23 22:12:18 <jasta> go for it
Sep 23 22:12:34 <kingkung> so i have an activity A that starts an activity B.
Sep 23 22:12:46 <kingkung> is there any way to preserve the state of activity B so that
Sep 23 22:13:07 <kingkung> if i back out into activity A and go back into B, my state (in this case my IM conversation) will still be present
Sep 23 22:13:16 <SanMehat> jimmygoon: Sorry man, I cannot discuss any business relationship oriented stuff
Sep 23 22:13:20 <jasta> yes, although im not sure exactly what you mean.
Sep 23 22:13:33 <jasta> if activity A starts B, backing out of B goes back to A.  you cant back out of A and not B.
Sep 23 22:13:34 <jimmygoon> SanMehat, I figured as much. But I can hope :)
Sep 23 22:13:39 <SanMehat> jimmygoon: :)
Sep 23 22:13:42 <kingkung> sorry
Sep 23 22:13:48 <kingkung> i meant back out of activity B and go into A
Sep 23 22:13:59 <jasta> kingkung: the state would be preserved normally in that case.
Sep 23 22:14:04 <jasta> you would not need to do anything special
Sep 23 22:14:32 <kingkung> i don't think i'm explaining this clearly
Sep 23 22:14:41 <jasta> the case where you have to consider saving state is when your activity is stopped (so you back out of A as well in this case).  you have the opportunity to persist data and present it again when your activity is started or created again
Sep 23 22:15:04 <kingkung> but when i hit the "BACK" button on activity B
Sep 23 22:15:22 <kingkung> i'm assuming that everything i did in activity B is lost (assuming i didn't save anything to DB)
Sep 23 22:16:05 <kingkung> and if i re-launch B from A, it'll create a new instance of activity B
Sep 23 22:16:29 <jasta> yes, that's true.
Sep 23 22:16:40 <unix_lappy> I wonder, if Google was still a private company would it have been able to do this.
Sep 23 22:16:42 <jasta> what i meant is that you have the opportunity to save state yourself in onStop or onPause
Sep 23 22:16:53 <kingkung> ah okay
Sep 23 22:16:54 <unix_lappy> even more importantly would it have not made the 1billion dollar mistake of purchasing youtube :-P
Sep 23 22:16:56 <jasta> and then to reload that state in onStart() or onCreate(), as you see fit.
Sep 23 22:17:07 <kingkung> sure
Sep 23 22:17:08 <jasta> kingkung: look at the activity life cycle and think very critically about how your state works and how it should be preserved.
Sep 23 22:17:23 <jjshoe> unix_lappy at least they didn't buy skype
Sep 23 22:17:25 <kingkung> sure
Sep 23 22:17:42 <jasta> for example, if you had a card game, you would probably want to save state in onStop(), and in onCreate(), reload your state if it exists.
Sep 23 22:18:07 <jasta> just make sure to save state *quickly*.  avoid using Serializable, for example.
Sep 23 22:18:47 <jasta> you can use shared preferences to save (an android facility), although in most cases it makes sense for you to just define your own binary flat file format.
Sep 23 22:19:03 <jasta> this is really where most Java users break down and prefer more general but slower approaches.  Think like a C programmer here ;)
Sep 23 22:19:15 <zhobbs> if you save in onStop() then you need to use persistent storage
Sep 23 22:19:50 <jasta> kingkung: you can use a database for storing your data, but do make sure that a database is an appropriate mechanism.  dont just choose it because it is available.
Sep 23 22:20:08 <jasta> back to my card game example, it wouldnt make sense to save your game in a database.  that has overhead you don't need or want.
Sep 23 22:20:22 <lesceil> Is there a way to communicate between two G1 phones easily?
Sep 23 22:20:25 <jasta> whereas a simple binary flat file format can describe the index of cards very efficiently.
Sep 23 22:20:50 <jasta> lesceil: not really, no.  gtalk was removed which was going to fill this gap.  you'd need to somehow provide your own message delivery network
Sep 23 22:20:57 <lesceil> say I want to write a game where two people play against each other
Sep 23 22:21:05 <jasta> a centralized server is one easy approach, although hard to scale of course.
Sep 23 22:21:17 <unix_lappy> theres a place where bugs go, theres a place where new projects go...
Sep 23 22:21:23 <lesceil> jasta: yeah, I was thinking so too. Does the phone know its gps position?
Sep 23 22:21:30 <unix_lappy> but is there a place where ideas, usability improvements, etc go
Sep 23 22:21:30 <umdk1d3> hmm im getting some sporadic errors
Sep 23 22:21:35 <jasta> lesceil: in a sense.
Sep 23 22:21:44 <umdk1d3> 09-23 22:20:22.218: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(15238): android.content.ActivityNotFoundException: Unable to find explicit activity class {com.myprog/com.myprog.ListActivity}; have you declared this activity in your AndroidManifest.xml?
Sep 23 22:21:49 <umdk1d3> it happens about 50% of the time
Sep 23 22:21:54 <umdk1d3> other 50% it works fine
Sep 23 22:22:05 <umdk1d3> when launching new Intent(this, ListActivity.class);
Sep 23 22:22:18 <umdk1d3> it might be happening during the build process
Sep 23 22:22:57 <zhobbs> unix_lappy: you can add feature requests on the android bug tracker
Sep 23 22:23:06 <lesceil> jasta: what does that mean
Sep 23 22:23:40 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: but can you add illustrations, is there a framework for that sort of stuff?
Sep 23 22:23:54 <zhobbs> unix_lappy: you can add attachments
Sep 23 22:23:59 <unix_lappy> for instance if i wanted to prototype something using javascript...
Sep 23 22:24:09 <jasta> lesceil: it doesn't just constnatly poll gps or tower locations.  that would be quite inefficient.
Sep 23 22:24:26 <jasta> lesceil: it will get its location if somebody asks for it, and there is a complex set of parameters there.
Sep 23 22:24:31 <jasta> it may or may not remember its last known position as well
Sep 23 22:24:34 <jasta> for efficient recall
Sep 23 22:25:01 <zhobbs> lesceil: gps only works if your phone can see the sky also
Sep 23 22:25:09 <jasta> AGPS, of course, is more flexible.
Sep 23 22:25:21 <zhobbs> and users can disable it in the settings
Sep 23 22:25:25 <lesceil> zhobbs: meaning it does not work within buildings or when driving bart
Sep 23 22:25:25 <jasta> cell triangulation is also more flexible.
Sep 23 22:25:35 <zhobbs> lesceil: right
Sep 23 22:25:50 <lesceil> mhm. what was gtalk about?
Sep 23 22:25:57 <jasta> lesceil: its a complex topic within Android, look at the docs regarding location management.
Sep 23 22:26:03 <lesceil> jasta: ok.
Sep 23 22:26:10 <jasta> lesceil: gtalk was their great p2p idea for messaging over google's servers.  it was scrapped for 1.0.
Sep 23 22:26:27 <lesceil> jasta: it's on the backburner or scrapped for good?
Sep 23 22:26:27 <AttractiveApe> jasta: do you know if they're still working on including it?
Sep 23 22:26:35 <jasta> lesceil: backburner, to be redesigned i believe.
Sep 23 22:26:42 <AttractiveApe> ah, cool.
Sep 23 22:26:44 <f00f-> apparently it's supported in the contacts
Sep 23 22:26:45 <zhobbs> AttractiveApe: I think they are, they said security was the problem
Sep 23 22:26:51 <f00f-> since andy was talking about presence in the contact list
Sep 23 22:26:54 <jasta> but thats just my feeling.  they cited security concerns initially (read: they designed it poorly)
Sep 23 22:26:59 <f00f-> so some hidden API most likely
Sep 23 22:27:00 <AttractiveApe> That was one of my complaints about BlackBerry's PIN system
Sep 23 22:27:10 <zhobbs> f00f-: isn't that for IM?
Sep 23 22:27:12 <SanMehat> jasta: re: (they designed it poorly). It happens.
Sep 23 22:27:12 <AttractiveApe> Great for everyone with a blackberry, I guess.  Useless for those that don't.
Sep 23 22:27:22 <jasta> f00f-: yeah but gtalk from a human perspective is much unlike their gtalk idea in android initially
Sep 23 22:27:25 <f00f-> yeah probably
Sep 23 22:27:28 <f00f-> yeah
Sep 23 23:13:13 <dmoffett> Has anyone seen a complete list of the apps that Google provides as a default?
Sep 23 23:13:21 <dmoffett> on the G1 phone.
Sep 23 23:15:39 <erus`> not i
Sep 23 23:24:41 <umdk1d3>    /me goes to piece together from screwenshots
Sep 23 23:26:22 <umdk1d3> youtube, gmail, im, calendar
Sep 23 23:29:34 <umdk1d3> myfavs
Sep 23 23:30:44 <umdk1d3> looks like theres a normal "mail" clieint besides gmail
Sep 23 23:30:54 <umdk1d3> amazon mp3 store
Sep 23 23:32:41 <unix_infidel> i wonder if microsoft will put out a exchange client.
Sep 23 23:33:04 <umdk1d3> why?  they would let a partner prolly
Sep 23 23:33:41 <unix_infidel> well obviously there's demand for it.  someone's going to do it, might as well be them.
Sep 23 23:33:56 <umdk1d3> personally i think they might ignore it
Sep 23 23:33:57 <clyde> so is there no way to sync to outlook on my desktop?
Sep 23 23:34:03 <umdk1d3> if they create a client, they admit that its serious competition
Sep 23 23:34:20 <jimmygoon> what is myfavs?
Sep 23 23:34:27 <umdk1d3> jimmygoon: its a tmobiel thing i guess
Sep 23 23:34:32 <unix_infidel> umdk1d3: obviously there's someone looking into it.
Sep 23 23:34:51 <unix_infidel> at microsoft, whether they do it is the question.
Sep 23 23:36:59 <jasta> microsoft's internal policy is to ignore android
Sep 23 23:37:00 <jjshoe> clyde apparently if you don't mind you can through gmail, which is crappy if you ask me
Sep 23 23:37:18 <jasta> i know this because i know several members of the windows mobile team :)
Sep 23 23:37:33 <yakischloba> jasta: gl to them ;)
Sep 23 23:37:52 <jasta> well i dont know, i dont think the G1 is gonna light up like the iPhone did
Sep 23 23:37:58 <jasta> maybe a slow onslaught
Sep 23 23:38:07 <erus`> .NET compact framework is kinda cool tho
Sep 23 23:38:19 <jasta> erus`: you clearly haven't actually used it.
Sep 23 23:38:36 <clyde> lol
Sep 23 23:38:43 <erus`> i actauly have tho
Sep 23 23:38:55 <erus`> even managed directX mobile
Sep 23 23:39:07 <jasta> i hated .net cf.  it's useless.
Sep 23 23:39:11 <fadden> Try it on WinCE.
Sep 23 23:39:18 <yakischloba> honestly how often does your irc client crash..
Sep 23 23:39:21 <erus`> jasta why?
Sep 23 23:39:21 <jasta> the widget toolkit is pathetic
Sep 23 23:39:23 <jasta> layout is pathetic
Sep 23 23:39:41 <jasta> trying to support multiple types of devices is unfathomably difficult.
Sep 23 23:40:03 <jimmygoon> you mean like android seeks to do :)
Sep 23 23:40:24 <jasta> jimmygoon: android already is good at that.
Sep 23 23:42:46 <unix_infidel> jasta: lol, that's been the microsoft way.
Sep 23 23:42:52 <clyde> well theoretically
Sep 23 23:43:02 <unix_infidel> stretch yourself out reaaaaally thin and support as many manuf as possible.
Sep 23 23:43:14 <unix_infidel> even if it means poor quality and shaky support.
Sep 23 23:43:33 <jimmygoon> Android is going to have a problem if there is a split where only some apps run on certain devices, etc
Sep 23 23:43:57 <unix_infidel> jimmygoon: that's expected.
Sep 23 23:44:00 <jasta> jimmygoon: no, it's not.
Sep 23 23:44:16 <jimmygoon> :/ hm
Sep 23 23:44:20 <jasta> android has well abstracted functionality that may not be available, and changing hardware parameters.
Sep 23 23:44:29 <jasta> this is evident all over the platform.
Sep 23 23:45:49 <jimmygoon> well, yeah, I guess I kinda knew that. I just am thinking of those who get a g1, and then are left behind when the next android phone comes out, has a better proc, and then everyone develops for it... and leaves the g1 behind
Sep 23 23:46:10 <unix_infidel> have they released an unlocked price for the g1?
Sep 23 23:46:17 <erus`> im gonna wait awile before jumping on board. but i will
Sep 23 23:46:32 <erus`> let all the teething problems get sorted
Sep 23 23:46:33 <yakischloba> jimmygoon: in all likelyhood, the next android phone won't have a whole lot of anything that this one doesn't have
Sep 23 23:46:58 <jasta> erus`: if this platform is any good, that "teething" phase will never end.
Sep 23 23:47:15 <jimmygoon> unix_infidel, I've heard/read 400
Sep 23 23:47:31 <jasta> for instance, Windows Mobile is relatively stable now, with few changes from release to release.  It subsequently is aging and out of touch.
Sep 23 23:47:37 <jasta> Palm is the same.
Sep 23 23:47:40 <jimmygoon> jasta, won't that separate it from the iphone?
Sep 23 23:47:41 <jasta> and recently, Blackberry.
Sep 23 23:47:46 <jjshoe> unix_infidel yes.
Sep 23 23:47:55 <jasta> android is setting up to be a progressive, long term strategy.  very unlikely its competitors.
Sep 23 23:47:59 <jasta> so, the "teething" phase will be constant.
Sep 23 23:48:32 * jimmygoon curses the wifi that keeps going out
Sep 23 23:48:46 <jasta> but that's not to say that it must be painful for developers
Sep 23 23:48:52 <erus`> anyone know if the G1 has 3d hardware or fast software driver?
Sep 23 23:49:03 <jasta> there are strategies to design your system to be growable and flexible as parameters change
Sep 23 23:49:07 <jasta> hopefully google has done that
Sep 23 23:49:13 <jasta> its my opinion that they have, but we'll see :)
Sep 23 23:49:44 <jasta> good Linux distributions deal with this daily.  the platform is very organic.
Sep 23 23:49:51 <erus`> and when are they gonna release source for that jake port (quake) ? :)
Sep 23 23:50:17 <jasta> you mean that mpeg they watch of quake rendered at the android resolution? :)
Sep 23 23:50:55 <jasta> bbl, heading home
Sep 23 23:50:55 <jjshoe> jasta :D
Sep 23 23:51:01 <erus`> they would have done crysis if it was a video :)
Sep 23 23:51:30 <jasta> yakischloba: woo, 99 looks nice right now ;)
Sep 23 23:51:51 <jimmygoon> surely that wasn't really a video... was it?
Sep 23 23:52:15 <yakischloba> jasta: hah. I still manage to avoid traffic at my new job. I take Airport way to the south end of boeing field, then cut over to east marginal. pretty quiet.
Sep 23 23:53:13 * erus` is inspired to remake crysis in java now
Sep 23 23:53:30 <f00f-> oh you're also a seattler yaki?
Sep 23 23:54:14 <yakischloba> yeah
Sep 23 23:56:00 <yakischloba> jasta and I are frequently in very close proximity but haven't gotten around to hanging out yet
Sep 24 00:00:13 <f00f-> ah ok
Sep 24 00:02:54 <yakischloba> anyone have a successful method of finding a project partner?
Sep 24 00:03:18 <gambler> 1.0 is much more aggressive at killing off services
Sep 24 00:03:30 <yakischloba> ah fuck i forgot i have to get the new sdk
Sep 24 00:04:54 <unix_infidel> yakischloba: heh, yea, svn would be really nice :-P
Sep 24 00:06:07 <gambler> I register a HandShakeCompletedEventListener that works ok in java SE...but fails silently on android...why
Sep 24 00:15:55 <yakischloba> because you didn't buy the diamond studded elliptical.
Sep 24 00:16:29 <gambler> the world is against me
Sep 24 00:16:39 <gambler> that gets fixed tommorow
Sep 24 00:16:40 <yakischloba> yeah, today anyway it seems lol
Sep 24 00:18:58 <yakischloba> so what do I have to do to upgrade again? just load the new eclipse plugin and configure the new sdk dir in it?
Sep 24 00:19:19 <gambler> yep
Sep 24 00:20:32 <yakischloba> k
Sep 24 00:25:59 <yakischloba> rad
Sep 24 00:26:03 <yakischloba> no eclipse won't start back up
Sep 24 00:26:11 <yakischloba> s/no/now
Sep 24 00:26:29 <yakischloba> i knew i shouldnt have trusted a gambler
Sep 24 00:26:37 <yakischloba> hh there we go
Sep 24 00:26:52 <gambler> wise words
Sep 24 00:27:40 <gambler> i hope your not writing any services because they all seem to get cleanup 2 seconds later after they get started now
Sep 24 00:27:47 <yakischloba> no I'm not ;)
Sep 24 00:28:00 <f00f-> gambler, for real?
Sep 24 00:28:03 <f00f-> what does your service do
Sep 24 00:28:52 <gambler> f00f-, listens on a socket waiting for a little message to come in that says "bluetooth RFCOMM has been implemented"
Sep 24 00:29:29 <f00f-> ltns
Sep 24 00:29:46 <f00f-> there is rfcomm support?
Sep 24 00:29:58 <f00f-> thought they removed it
Sep 24 00:30:35 <gambler> yah i mean my service wont do anything useful until that is implemented
Sep 24 00:34:07 <gambler> hmm scratch that, maybe its not getting cleaned up really fast.
Sep 24 00:34:17 <gambler> its hard to tell at the moment
Sep 24 00:35:09 <f00f-> your judgement is cloudy
Sep 24 00:35:20 <jasta> yawn
Sep 24 00:37:06 <jasta> so, i have a question...
Sep 24 00:37:54 <jasta> how does Java handle API changes?  say, android 1.5 came out and changed the MediaPlayer class, how would you write an app which supports both the 1.0 api and that new one?
Sep 24 00:38:23 <jasta> in C of course its easy, you just #ifdef on some helpful condition the API creator gives you.
Sep 24 00:38:56 <jasta> would you just use reflection to test for the presence of methods you are interested in?
Sep 24 00:39:13 <f00f-> annotate the old one with @Deprecated and never remove it
Sep 24 00:39:17 <f00f-> that's how sun does it ;)
Sep 24 00:39:24 <gambler> f00f-, i dont disagree but my code is behaving more differently than i expected
Sep 24 00:40:29 <f00f-> probably reflection would be better jasta, but i don't think excessive use of reflection is good since it can be slow
Sep 24 00:40:35 * dcordes_ lurks
Sep 24 00:41:03 <jasta> f00f-: well what if it's just straight additions of functionality
Sep 24 00:41:32 <f00f-> there is not android version constant?
Sep 24 00:42:18 <jasta> but how would that help you conditionalize using new APIs?  you can't conditionalize the code you feed to the compiler like you can with C
Sep 24 00:42:23 <yakischloba> hey I don't think I've asked about this recently: is there anything like WinMo's "owner details" in android yet?
Sep 24 00:45:57 <jasta> lol, for real
Sep 24 00:46:03 <jasta> i just booted android and the home screen crashed
Sep 24 00:46:07 <jasta> the whole thing just reset itself
Sep 24 00:46:10 <yakischloba> nice
Sep 24 00:46:13 <yakischloba> 1.0! :)
Sep 24 00:46:42 <jasta> E/System  (  200): Failure starting core service
Sep 24 00:46:43 <jasta> E/System  (  200): java.lang.SecurityException
Sep 24 00:46:44 <jasta> hmm
Sep 24 00:46:44 <erus`> 10 hours  late
Sep 24 00:46:47 <yakischloba> I haven't tried booting 1.0 yet.
Sep 24 00:46:50 <_avatar> ouch.
Sep 24 00:47:08 <xavd_> 1.0 only means compatible with 1.0 API
Sep 24 00:47:10 <f00f-> -wipe-data
Sep 24 00:47:14 <_avatar> maybe try a factory data reset
Sep 24 00:47:21 <jasta> i did -wipe-data
Sep 24 00:47:27 <f00f-> rm -rf ~/.android
Sep 24 00:47:29 <yakischloba> xavd_: teasing ;)
Sep 24 00:47:32 <f00f-> i never trusted -wipe-data in the early days
Sep 24 00:47:48 <xavd_> the emulator does not include everything the device does, which has some side effects :(
Sep 24 00:47:51 <jasta> f00f-: what does rm -rf do that -wipe-data doesn't except clear my storage card?
Sep 24 00:48:09 <jasta> E/AndroidRuntime(  147): java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to start activity ComponentInfo{com.android.contacts/com.android.contacts.DialtactsActivity}: java.lang.RuntimeException: Package manager has died
Sep 24 00:48:14 <jasta> lol
Sep 24 00:48:23 <yakischloba> har
Sep 24 00:48:26 <xavd_> btw there's no point in doing wipe-data the first time as we are saving the user data in a different folder this time
Sep 24 00:48:28 <jasta> I/ServiceManager(   18): service 'power' died
Sep 24 00:48:36 <jasta> E/AndroidRuntime(   56): *** EXCEPTION IN SYSTEM PROCESS.  System will crash.
Sep 24 00:48:37 <xavd_> jasta: ouch, what did you try to do?
Sep 24 00:48:38 <jasta> lol
Sep 24 00:48:41 <jasta> xavd_: boot it.
Sep 24 00:48:51 <xavd_> hmm wow
Sep 24 00:48:59 <_avatar> impressive crash
Sep 24 00:49:03 <jasta> it happily reset itself and now works, but shit...what the hell happened there?  some weird corner case?
Sep 24 00:49:03 <xavd_> indeed
Sep 24 00:49:21 <xavd_> I don't know. do you have a full log output?
Sep 24 00:49:31 <jasta> sure do
Sep 24 00:49:37 <gambler> I think the scheduler is tightened its belt up a little
Sep 24 00:50:21 <xavd_> can you give it to me through pastebin or similar?
Sep 24 00:51:00 <jasta> i'll create an issue
Sep 24 00:51:05 <xavd_> thanks
Sep 24 00:51:13 <jasta> the root of it all seems to be:
Sep 24 00:51:16 <jasta> 09-23 17:44:42.835 E/System  (   56): Failure starting core service
Sep 24 00:51:16 <jasta> 09-23 17:44:42.835 E/System  (   56): java.lang.SecurityException
Sep 24 00:51:20 <jasta> after that it all goes to hell ;)
Sep 24 00:52:45 <xavd_> interestingly I have the same lines in my log, but that does not crash my emulator
Sep 24 00:54:14 <jasta> i also get a failure starting statusbarservice
Sep 24 00:54:15 <jasta> NPE
Sep 24 00:54:24 <jasta> but the real calamity is some lines later:
Sep 24 00:54:26 <xavd_> me too, not sure what that's about :\
Sep 24 00:54:37 <jasta> 09-23 17:45:01.837 E/AndroidRuntime(   56): Uncaught handler: thread Thread-36 exiting due to uncaught exception
Sep 24 00:54:40 <jasta> 09-23 17:45:01.837 E/AndroidRuntime(   56): *** EXCEPTION IN SYSTEM PROCESS.  System will crash.
Sep 24 00:54:43 <jasta> 09-23 17:45:01.837 E/AndroidRuntime(   56): java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Service not registered: android.accounts.AccountMonitor@434bf230
Sep 24 00:54:50 <jasta> i just posted issue 901
Sep 24 00:54:55 <jasta> the adb bugreport output is there
Sep 24 00:54:58 <xavd_> thanks
Sep 24 00:55:12 <jasta> but do realize it restarted itself and did startup successfully.  so both a crash and successful startup are in the log
Sep 24 00:55:22 <xavd_> ok
Sep 24 00:57:27 <gambler> How do I go about debugging a HandShakeCompletedEventListener that works fine in java SE but not android...
Sep 24 00:58:10 <gambler> It wont call my handshakeCompleted(HandshakeCompletedEvent event) callback
Sep 24 00:58:34 <gambler> or is this probably a bug?
Sep 24 01:17:48 <yakischloba> has anyone had to make decisions about whether to include the ability for non-US folks to use their app or not? I'm using a bunch of 'measurement' data (weight, length, volume) and it seems like it would be a major pain in the ass to make it work right for both US and metric systems
Sep 24 01:18:57 <wastrel> sigh the us is so backwards
Sep 24 01:19:37 <yakischloba> yeah. I would figure that the major user base will be the US anyways...hmm
Sep 24 01:20:04 <gambler> yakischloba, introduce a layer of abstraction. it wont be much work
Sep 24 01:20:42 <yakischloba> I've been trying to think of a clean way to do it
Sep 24 01:21:32 <yakischloba> obviously not thinking hard enough
Sep 24 01:23:02 <gambler> what would a typical measurement be for?
Sep 24 01:23:54 <yakischloba> now that I think about it, I don't know if I should even be considering support outside the US
Sep 24 01:23:55 <yakischloba> well
Sep 24 01:24:00 <yakischloba> food items
Sep 24 01:24:06 <yakischloba> so serving size and shit
Sep 24 01:25:22 <yakischloba> forget it ;)
Sep 24 01:25:22 <tcameron> anyone know if the android phone from t-mobile will have a cisco vpn client?
Sep 24 01:25:55 <yakischloba> tcameron: something tells me that hasn't been developed yet.
Sep 24 01:26:16 <yakischloba> (could be completely wrong)
Sep 24 01:26:27 <tcameron> anyone heard of cisco working on/with android community for that functionality?
Sep 24 01:26:31 <f00f-> tcameron: not in your wildest dreams
Sep 24 01:26:54 <tcameron> I'm *so* ready to dump my Palm and go with an android phone, but I need that capability
Sep 24 01:27:03 * tcameron wonders if vpnc will work on android...?
Sep 24 01:27:07 <yakischloba> write it
Sep 24 01:27:20 <tcameron> heh - would that I were capable of doing so...
Sep 24 01:27:27 <f00f-> i'm pretty sure there is a TAP/TUN device
Sep 24 01:27:35 <f00f-> so openvpn or any other will work
Sep 24 01:27:52 <f00f-> just need to get the native binary on there
Sep 24 01:32:16 <snadge> you could probably use openswan
Sep 24 01:33:02 <snadge> i use that to make an ipsec tunnel vpn connection
Sep 24 01:33:24 <snadge> and i'll need that to work with android too ;)
Sep 24 01:39:52 <tcameron> interesting - cisco and google:  http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/24941
Sep 24 01:45:57 <plusminus_> hm, how to get distance between two GeoPoints in sdk 1.0 ? MapPoint.distanceSquared(MapPoint) is gone :(
Sep 24 02:14:12 <wastrel> hrm amazon mp3s what about amazon ebooks
Sep 24 02:14:14 <wastrel> i'd go for that
Sep 24 02:14:21 <wastrel> like the kindle
Sep 24 02:15:03 <_avatar> android's screen size is probably not optimal for reading novels ;)
Sep 24 02:15:15 <_avatar> er, sorry, the G1
Sep 24 02:15:17 <_avatar> long day
Sep 24 02:15:22 <wastrel> i've been reading novels on palm since 1998
Sep 24 02:15:43 <wastrel> people read novels on their blackberry
Sep 24 02:15:55 <wastrel> it's perfect for prose
Sep 24 02:16:04 <wastrel> i want an epaper device for technical docs and pdf
Sep 24 02:16:10 <wastrel> but it's just fine for prose
Sep 24 02:16:48 <_avatar> amazon may also see it as a waste of time to reinvent the wheel / develop a product that directly competes with another of its products. ;)
Sep 24 02:16:53 <wastrel> problem with the ebook industry is the drm it's bad
Sep 24 02:17:05 <wastrel> drm free pls ebook ppl
Sep 24 02:18:17 <Elijah> Android. The iPhone killer!
Sep 24 02:19:28 <wastrel> hi hi
Sep 24 02:21:27 <Elijah> wastrel: hi
Sep 24 02:23:49 <wastrel> anyway _avatar selling ebooks is amazon's business not selling kindles
Sep 24 02:23:59 <wastrel> more platforms more sales.
Sep 24 02:24:03 <wastrel> the drm is a problem tho
Sep 24 02:27:01 <_avatar> wastrel: yes and no, in response to "selling ebooks is amazon's business not selling kindles
Sep 24 02:27:05 <_avatar> "
Sep 24 02:27:26 <_avatar> and yes, DRM is also a big problem
Sep 24 02:27:33 <Elijah> isn't Amazons main business "selling anything"
Sep 24 02:28:35 <wastrel> drm is bad
Sep 24 02:28:45 <wastrel> repeal dmca and we can rip out drm with impunity :p
Sep 24 02:29:05 <_avatar> drm free music is a good first step :)
Sep 24 02:31:59 <umdk1d3> jasta: that error was interesting
Sep 24 02:32:06 <umdk1d3> Unable to start activity ComponentInfo{com.android.contacts/com.android.contacts.DialtactsActivity}:
Sep 24 02:32:19 <umdk1d3> notice how it seems to double-up the classpath?
Sep 24 02:32:26 <umdk1d3> i saw the same thing happening with my apps intermittently
Sep 24 02:32:55 <ralfz> umdk1d3, the usual syntax namespace/.class is actually a shortcut. This is the "full" string.
Sep 24 02:33:35 <ralfz> when you write "com.blah/.MyClass" it is actually interpreted as "com.blah/com.blah.MyClass"
Sep 24 02:33:53 <umdk1d3> oh okay cool
Sep 24 02:34:13 <umdk1d3> so its not any classpath issues causing that error
Sep 24 02:34:57 <ralfz> it just means the activity name is unknown. maybe a typo?
Sep 24 02:35:17 <ralfz> what's "Dialtacts" anyway?
Sep 24 02:35:18 <umdk1d3> ralfz: but in their contacts app? o.o
Sep 24 02:35:32 <ralfz> oh I though it was code of yours... sorry missed the beginning
Sep 24 02:35:34 <umdk1d3> dialer/contacts
Sep 24 02:35:45 <umdk1d3> and i also was seeing the same error in my own apps
Sep 24 02:35:48 <umdk1d3> *in 1.0
Sep 24 02:35:56 <ralfz> is that the emulator? maybe it lacks some activity...
Sep 24 02:36:14 <umdk1d3> rebuilding the eclipse project seemed to always fix it for me
Sep 24 02:36:20 <umdk1d3> but it would still randomly come back
Sep 24 02:36:20 <ralfz> huh?
Sep 24 02:36:25 <umdk1d3> even without touching the manifest
Sep 24 02:36:37 <ralfz> maybe it's unrelated? how do you reproduce it?
Sep 24 02:36:38 <umdk1d3> it /might/ have been old .class files somehow
Sep 24 02:48:26 <jasta> hmm, cute
Sep 24 02:48:40 <jasta> error on lin1 of all my aidl files now says "bad type"
Sep 24 02:48:58 <jasta> line 1*
Sep 24 02:51:03 <jasta> hmm, what the hell
Sep 24 02:51:06 <jasta> i really cant figure this out
Sep 24 02:53:22 <plusminus_> *argh* Mock-Location-Proving changed once again
Sep 24 02:56:03 <jasta> ugh
Sep 24 02:56:07 <jasta> why does android insist on being so broken
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 24 02:59:57 2008