**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 26 02:59:56 2008
Sep 26 03:00:10 <wastrel> does it require wifi?
Sep 26 03:00:11 <Adamant> people also still buy iPods and will continue to buy them
Sep 26 03:00:17 <Adamant> wastrel: not sure
Sep 26 03:00:24 <illuminum> amazon is going to establish a market leadership position very quickly, and its service value propositions and brand value propositions are going to solidify its state for a long time
Sep 26 03:00:36 <wastrel> drm is bad
Sep 26 03:00:45 <illuminum> adamant they will continue but that is myopic
Sep 26 03:00:45 <benley> it's not like people are going to stop using itunes because this exists
Sep 26 03:00:49 <illuminum> over time they won't
Sep 26 03:00:51 <benley> amazonmp3 has been around for a long time already
Sep 26 03:00:54 <illuminum> because vendor lock-in is bad
Sep 26 03:00:59 <illuminum> and people will realize that sooner or later
Sep 26 03:00:59 <benley> itunes has some drm-free stuff available
Sep 26 03:01:06 <rufus5> wow that amazon service looks nice
Sep 26 03:01:09 <Adamant> I would be more interested as to Amazon's prospects with the Kindle and stuff like AWS
Sep 26 03:01:22 <_avatar> benley: true, but amazon has more DRM free music, and its generally cheaper
Sep 26 03:01:30 <illuminum> i think we'll see a lot of android apps that leverage amazon web services
Sep 26 03:01:30 <benley> yeah, seems to be
Sep 26 03:01:33 <wastrel> yeah it's nice that amazon has drm free music it's too  bad their ebooks are drm'd
Sep 26 03:01:39 <illuminum> and i think that amazon is going to take its kindle platform to the android too
Sep 26 03:01:42 <benley> illuminum: that would be cool
Sep 26 03:01:45 <benley> both of those
Sep 26 03:01:47 <illuminum> amazon is going to be the #1 brand name on the android platform
Sep 26 03:01:48 <Adamant> illuminum: I would be surprised
Sep 26 03:01:48 <dmoffett> I use iTune to find music and then but it on Amazon.
Sep 26 03:01:49 <illuminum> i guarantee it
Sep 26 03:02:10 <illuminum> i'm studying amazon right now, I'm both an accountant and a gnu fan boy
Sep 26 03:02:14 <Adamant> dmoffett: you'll do that until iTunes has all DRM-free music
Sep 26 03:02:22 <Adamant> then there's no reason to use Amazon
Sep 26 03:02:28 <wastrel> do you use gnucash?
Sep 26 03:02:29 <dmoffett> You are right the is the real reason.
Sep 26 03:02:46 <wastrel> i don't use itunes because i have linux
Sep 26 03:02:51 <wastrel> also i don't listen to music
Sep 26 03:03:11 <illuminum> adamant you are wrong 1000 times over
Sep 26 03:03:17 <illuminum> but only time will prove who is right
Sep 26 03:03:21 <illuminum> just mark my words
Sep 26 03:03:33 <Adamant> right now the majors are trying to punish Apple by licensing DRM free stuff to other companies and trying to let other companies get more marketshare
Sep 26 03:03:56 <Adamant> but if Apple can force or pressure the majors to also give them DRM free music
Sep 26 03:04:06 <Adamant> why buy from Amazon?
Sep 26 03:04:09 <illuminum> the world is flat adamant, any company that uses drm or closed systems is bound to fail
Sep 26 03:04:09 <dmoffett> Still Apple has gained market share.
Sep 26 03:04:23 <Adamant> illuminum: Amazon uses DRM for it's books
Sep 26 03:04:42 <_avatar> Adamant: iTunes doesn't have variable pricing. ;)
Sep 26 03:04:51 <Adamant> Apple can at least use the argument the majors have pushed it to use DRM
Sep 26 03:05:06 <Adamant> Amazon built Kindle from the bottom up and it has DRM
Sep 26 03:05:26 <wastrel> publishers want drm
Sep 26 03:05:30 <illuminum> hmmm
Sep 26 03:05:52 <illuminum> so the challenge is in convincing publishers to drop drm before open sharing kills them
Sep 26 03:06:20 <illuminum> i think amazon as a company has its head in the right place but as you said the publishers/vendors are another issue
Sep 26 03:07:54 <Adamant> also, drop the GNU fanboy stuff if you're going to be a investor. the truth is socially nasty business models make money all the time, otherwise "sin" stocks wouldn't do so well overall. You can not invest in companies that you think are evil, but don't assume their "evil" competitors won't eat their lunch.
Sep 26 03:08:18 <illuminum> i think a lot of the infrastructure for the killer apps that will evolve on the android is going to be supported by amazon web-service/infrastructure
Sep 26 03:08:30 <Adamant> illuminum: why not GAE?
Sep 26 03:08:42 <Adamant> I'm sure Google will push that and even put hooks in for it?
Sep 26 03:08:42 <wastrel> what's gae?
Sep 26 03:08:45 <wastrel> ah
Sep 26 03:08:50 <Adamant> Google App Engine
Sep 26 03:09:00 <illuminum> that's where i feel you're wrong adamant
Sep 26 03:09:14 <illuminum> i think we're simply in transition
Sep 26 03:09:37 <illuminum> companies that used the lockout strategies before or trying desperately to salvage their markets
Sep 26 03:09:54 <illuminum> but they will fail when open platforms hit the critical mass point where there is no reversal
Sep 26 03:10:03 <illuminum> which is inevitable
Sep 26 03:10:06 <Adamant> except Apple's stock price is doing great based on such a strategy.
Sep 26 03:10:31 <illuminum> well what percentage of people still use windows--people are stupid but the inevitable will happen
Sep 26 03:10:38 <illuminum> and it will happen sooner rather than later
Sep 26 03:11:00 <wastrel> windows is bad
Sep 26 03:11:06 <Adamant> the markets can stay "irrational" longer than you can stay solvent.
Sep 26 03:12:13 <illuminum> ok well we'll see
Sep 26 03:15:16 <wastrel> i'm writing my first java program
Sep 26 03:15:16 <illuminum> i hope they stay irrational long enough for me to invest more in IT companies that will dominate the next generation
Sep 26 03:15:16 <wastrel> hello android :]
Sep 26 03:17:15 <muthu> jambalaga
Sep 26 03:22:14 <wastrel> i like the peole who complain that the android logo isn't humanoid enough to be classified an android
Sep 26 03:22:18 <wastrel> it's a robo
Sep 26 03:22:20 <wastrel> t
Sep 26 03:22:28 <wastrel> hey my hello android worked!
Sep 26 03:22:38 <wastrel> i can follow detailed instructions
Sep 26 03:22:54 <gdsx> wastrel: did it break after it started working? ;o)
Sep 26 03:27:18 <muthu> i want my G1
Sep 26 03:33:10 <muthu> can someone fedex?
Sep 26 03:37:16 <wastrel> you send me $1000 USD
Sep 26 03:37:26 <wastrel> i will get you a g1 - might take a little while
Sep 26 03:37:44 <muthu> if i have 1000D i'll buy it myself
Sep 26 03:38:10 <muthu> hehe
Sep 26 03:39:20 <ulmen> i can fedex you a g1 right now, but you have to pay upfront
Sep 26 03:39:28 <muthu> sure
Sep 26 03:39:43 <ulmen> also i can get you viagra and a longer penis
Sep 26 03:39:48 <muthu> SHIT
Sep 26 03:39:55 <muthu> get me that!!!!
Sep 26 03:40:08 <muthu> who cares about G1?
Sep 26 03:40:26 <muthu> ulmen: how many have you sold?
Sep 26 03:40:27 <muthu> lol
Sep 26 03:41:09 <ulmen> oh i just came up with the idea, so you could be customer #1
Sep 26 03:41:10 <DannyB> if you sent me 10000
Sep 26 03:41:14 <DannyB> i'll send you a g1
Sep 26 03:41:43 <muthu> shit, money talks
Sep 26 03:42:48 <muthu> US is a flight away.. dudes.. chillax
Sep 26 03:52:31 <ulmen> theese taxes i'd have to pay for importing one kind of kill the great euro->usd exchange rates
Sep 26 03:53:47 <muthu> the wall st fiasco is scaring people away from banks
Sep 26 04:07:02 <ulmen> i hope the $400 unlocked offer is not a pain to actually purcase in the end, so i can get my grandpa to send me one
Sep 26 04:07:16 <ulmen> somehow i never thought about importing one until you came up with it =)
Sep 26 04:07:26 <muthu> yeah, its a good option
Sep 26 04:32:53 <umdk1d3> mmmm
Sep 26 04:33:00 * umdk1d3 rolls into channel
Sep 26 04:35:40 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: greetings
Sep 26 04:36:29 <umdk1d3> =D
Sep 26 04:36:36 * umdk1d3 reads up on android blogs
Sep 26 04:37:00 <wastrel> $400 unlocked eh
Sep 26 04:37:03 <wastrel> you could just use it as a pda
Sep 26 04:37:54 <wastrel> palm tx is $300 new
Sep 26 04:38:27 <donomo> wastrel: im seriously considering that.
Sep 26 04:38:30 <donomo> wifi still works
Sep 26 04:39:37 <ttuttle> The Palm TX should be cheaper.
Sep 26 04:40:51 <ulmen> gsm would also work with any other carrier in the us, wouldn't it?
Sep 26 04:41:29 <swetland> well any other gsm based carrier
Sep 26 04:41:46 <swetland> not gonna get you very far on sprint, for example
Sep 26 04:42:08 <muthu> if its unlocked, you can use any sim
Sep 26 04:42:18 <swetland> note: G1 will do gprs/edge on ATT, but not 3G (different bands)
Sep 26 04:42:59 <wastrel> i'm on verizon right now.
Sep 26 04:43:06 <summatusmentis> ugh
Sep 26 04:43:14 * summatusmentis is never going back to VZW
Sep 26 04:49:14 <ttuttle> swetland: hey!
Sep 26 04:49:26 <ttuttle> wastrel: oh, I'm sorry.
Sep 26 04:50:21 <swetland> heya
Sep 26 04:50:24 <swetland> how goes?
Sep 26 04:50:28 <ttuttle> swetland: awesome
Sep 26 04:50:40 <ttuttle> swetland: I'm taking operating systems.  It's a lot of fun.
Sep 26 04:52:20 <summatusmentis> I wish my school offered an operating systems course
Sep 26 04:54:03 <wastrel> i should have been a cs major :p
Sep 26 04:54:24 <muthu> i should have been a hollywood major!
Sep 26 04:54:55 <summatusmentis> wastrel: what's your major? or what was your major?
Sep 26 04:55:02 <wastrel> biology
Sep 26 04:55:18 <summatusmentis> I guess my school does offer a generic systems course, so might be sort of the same thing
Sep 26 04:55:23 <summatusmentis> wastrel: ah
Sep 26 04:56:12 <umdk1d3> muthu: i saw mary ann earlie today
Sep 26 04:56:20 <umdk1d3> had a question for ya  ;)
Sep 26 04:56:20 <muthu> where?
Sep 26 04:56:28 <umdk1d3> somewhere lol  ;)
Sep 26 04:56:31 <muthu> haha
Sep 26 04:56:49 <umdk1d3> but yea was wondering if you were doing anything special to get local store locations
Sep 26 04:56:57 <umdk1d3> or if it was just a single database somewhere
Sep 26 04:57:18 <muthu> that's the challenging part..
Sep 26 04:57:36 <muthu> where to get content and how is still something i'm looking at
Sep 26 04:57:42 <muthu> there's always google local
Sep 26 04:58:05 <muthu> but not sure, if google TOS lets us use that info
Sep 26 04:58:13 <muthu> commercially that is
Sep 26 04:58:17 <umdk1d3> :(
Sep 26 04:58:26 <muthu> on the long run..
Sep 26 04:58:34 <muthu> the ideal thing would be to maintain your own db
Sep 26 04:58:47 <muthu> so we don't run into legal issues
Sep 26 04:58:59 <muthu> in the short run..
Sep 26 04:59:05 <muthu> planning to use google
Sep 26 04:59:24 <umdk1d3> okay cool
Sep 26 04:59:33 <umdk1d3> i ended up building my own db
Sep 26 04:59:39 <muthu> that's the right thing
Sep 26 04:59:42 <umdk1d3> some of their stuff might work tho
Sep 26 04:59:49 <umdk1d3> "groceries near x,y"
Sep 26 04:59:52 <muthu> yeah, mix n match
Sep 26 05:00:02 <muthu> but generate content and put it in your db
Sep 26 05:00:42 <muthu> umdk1d3: how come you lost to shopsavvy ;)
Sep 26 05:57:06 * ttuttle -> sleep.
Sep 26 06:00:48 <monteslu> what's the difference between g1 black, and "with google(TM) black" ?
Sep 26 06:00:56 <monteslu> about to order
Sep 26 06:04:56 <tric> gdsx: thanks for asking and the reply. seems like the 1.0 emu has several bugs. :(
Sep 26 06:06:00 <gdsx> tric: np
Sep 26 06:06:06 <monteslu> anyone? If I don't order now, tmobile's site is likely to go tits up again
Sep 26 06:09:58 <romainguy_> monteslu: I have a black g1
Sep 26 06:10:03 <romainguy_> it says "with Google" on the back
Sep 26 06:10:10 <romainguy_> so I have no idea what you're talking about :)
Sep 26 06:11:35 <summatusmentis> romainguy_: I don't suppose you can say anything about the sprint device with android can you?
Sep 26 06:11:40 <monteslu> romainguy_, there's two different black ones available on the tmobile site
Sep 26 06:11:45 <summatusmentis> (slap me :))
Sep 26 06:11:51 <romainguy_> summatusmentis: I honestly don't know anything about a Sprint Android device
Sep 26 06:11:51 <monteslu> both are black, and only show the front of the phone
Sep 26 06:11:59 <summatusmentis> romainguy_: haha, ok
Sep 26 06:12:01 <monteslu> i guess the "with google" means the logo on the back?
Sep 26 06:12:06 <romainguy_> I guess
Sep 26 06:12:56 <monteslu> you'd think they'd mention that somewhere
Sep 26 06:13:08 <summatusmentis> romainguy_: I suppose as a dev, you only need a device, doesn't matter who it's with
Sep 26 06:13:34 <muthu> i'll get google black
Sep 26 06:14:00 <monteslu> muthu, I think so too. And just in case it means there's another feature, they cost the same :)
Sep 26 06:14:08 <muthu> yeah
Sep 26 06:14:19 <umdk1d3> avail in 200% more colors than the iphone!!  <OHSNAP>
Sep 26 06:14:42 <summatusmentis> umdk1d3: uhh... no?
Sep 26 06:14:43 <monteslu> yeah, even a zune matching color :)
Sep 26 06:14:50 <summatusmentis> iPhone you can get in black and white?
Sep 26 06:15:00 <umdk1d3> orly?  i didnt know they had more than one
Sep 26 06:15:05 <f00f-> will they have it in brown *shudder*
Sep 26 06:15:06 <monteslu> they have 3
Sep 26 06:15:14 <umdk1d3> monteslu: its not the horrid zune brown tho
Sep 26 06:15:22 <umdk1d3> its more of a dark tan
Sep 26 06:15:26 <summatusmentis> or, they're supposed to be able to get it in white
Sep 26 06:15:33 <monteslu> black, brown, and "with google(TM) black"
Sep 26 06:15:45 <monteslu> no white listed on the site right now
Sep 26 06:16:00 <umdk1d3> hmm the default activity background color isnt exactly #000
Sep 26 06:16:00 <monteslu> the brown looks like it has a white keyboard
Sep 26 06:16:07 <umdk1d3> that must be google(tm) black  ;)
Sep 26 06:16:30 <monteslu> cool, #111 is way cooler than #000
Sep 26 06:16:35 <monteslu> I've always said that
Sep 26 06:16:40 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: it's #ff191919
Sep 26 06:16:47 <tric> romainguy: are you _sure_ all retail devices have development support like adb access, or is yours maybe some cool pre retail google device?
Sep 26 06:16:58 <romainguy_> mine is a retail device
Sep 26 06:17:07 <romainguy_> but again, you're not root
Sep 26 06:17:21 <monteslu> does anyone knoe if the SDK's browser has the same javascript interepreter as whats on the g1?
Sep 26 06:17:24 <monteslu> and renderer
Sep 26 06:17:26 <romainguy_> for instance in DDMS you cannot see the list of processes, only the processes that have debug enabled in the manifest
Sep 26 06:17:36 <umdk1d3> romainguy_: looool so *thats* Google(tm) black
Sep 26 06:17:43 <monteslu> I'm curious if the browser can handle dojo and svg
Sep 26 06:17:46 <romainguy_> monteslu: the SDK ships the same bits as the device
Sep 26 06:17:48 <tric> np, i dont need root, but adb install would help alot. and wow, even debugging on real device.
Sep 26 06:17:54 <monteslu> romainguy_, awesome. thanks
Sep 26 06:18:08 <romainguy_> tric: some debugging tools might not work
Sep 26 06:18:15 <romainguy_> for instance hierarchyviewer won't :(
Sep 26 06:18:23 <tric> romainguy: you connect it via usb and have to configure adb and tools somehow, will it be or is it documented somewhere?
Sep 26 06:18:36 <romainguy_> there's nothing to configure
Sep 26 06:18:45 <romainguy_> you go in settings, enable development over USB
Sep 26 06:18:51 <romainguy_> the plug it in and start adb or DDMS
Sep 26 06:18:52 <romainguy_> that's it
Sep 26 06:19:01 <tric> oh, ok
Sep 26 06:19:07 <monteslu> ordered
Sep 26 06:19:26 <tric> i think ill ask some us guy to order it aswell ;)
Sep 26 06:19:28 * umdk1d3 wonders what their order counter looks like
Sep 26 06:19:39 <umdk1d3> they are still taking preorders i guess
Sep 26 06:20:41 <tric> we really need a .eu "dev" version. this us market thing first sucks
Sep 26 06:21:31 <romainguy_> it does suck
Sep 26 06:21:42 <romainguy_> but it's not as simple as just selling the device in europe
Sep 26 06:21:52 <romainguy_> putting a cell phone onto the market is a lot of work
Sep 26 06:21:58 <romainguy_> and I'm not talking about engineering
Sep 26 06:22:22 <tric> hehe, for me (and devs) it is. we only need the device and prolly dont care about contracts
Sep 26 06:22:36 <romainguy_> it's not just about contracts
Sep 26 06:22:41 <f00f-> market is a fickle
Sep 26 06:22:53 <romainguy_> a device needs to be approved to use the radio waves for instance
Sep 26 06:23:06 <f00f-> lol
Sep 26 06:23:08 <tric> ok, disable the radio! i really dont need it, hehe
Sep 26 06:23:27 <romainguy_> still need approval if the radio chips is inside :)
Sep 26 06:23:29 <f00f-> the god of RF grants you permission
Sep 26 06:43:45 <monteslu> does the android browser not support SVG?
Sep 26 06:43:53 <monteslu> i can't get dojo to draw with it
Sep 26 06:46:35 <buster> why dont you browse to some .svg file on the web and find out? :o
Sep 26 06:46:48 <buster> wikimedia has some svgs
Sep 26 06:48:00 <romainguy_> monteslu: it doesn't
Sep 26 06:48:32 <romainguy_> it might support the Canvas API though
Sep 26 06:49:32 <monteslu> it doesn't
Sep 26 06:49:35 <monteslu> this sucks
Sep 26 06:49:38 <buster> btw. i'm trying to find out how to power some j2me app to android. is someone familiar with this? i have a request, some JSRs thatshould work but no clue of j2me and those JSRs
Sep 26 06:49:42 <monteslu> i shoulda checked before ordering :(
Sep 26 06:49:57 <romainguy_> monteslu: why don't you write a native app instead? :)
Sep 26 06:50:05 <romainguy_> or wirte an SVG viewer
Sep 26 06:50:16 <monteslu> romainguy_, no way. It should be built into the browser
Sep 26 06:50:25 <monteslu> seriously. iphone can handle it
Sep 26 06:50:43 <romainguy_> ah
Sep 26 06:50:54 <romainguy_> honestly, SVG was not a priority for 1.0
Sep 26 06:50:55 <buster> iphone != android ;)
Sep 26 06:50:58 <monteslu> i want to just write crossplatform webapps
Sep 26 06:51:24 <monteslu> buster, i realise that
Sep 26 06:51:34 <umdk1d3> hmm
Sep 26 06:51:53 <monteslu> dojo with svg output has some huge potential
Sep 26 06:52:00 <umdk1d3> whats the best way to opena  raw resource?
Sep 26 06:52:07 <monteslu> its like java.awt in javascript
Sep 26 06:52:21 <romainguy_> monteslu: no, the Canvas API is like java.awt in JavaScript :p
Sep 26 06:52:22 <monteslu> gui toolkit and an event model
Sep 26 06:52:32 <romainguy_> ah
Sep 26 06:52:34 <romainguy_> yes that :)))
Sep 26 06:52:41 <umdk1d3> im using   Uri uri = Uri.parse("android.resource://com.example.myapp/raw/my_resource");  but it doesnt like me
Sep 26 06:52:51 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: look at Context.getResources()
Sep 26 06:52:59 <romainguy_> there are methods to open raw resources
Sep 26 06:53:19 <monteslu> romainguy_, you are refereing to the dojox gfx canvas?
Sep 26 06:53:29 <romainguy_> no I'm referring to <canvas/>
Sep 26 06:55:03 <monteslu> there's some IP controversy with that
Sep 26 06:55:14 <romainguy_> how so?
Sep 26 06:55:41 <monteslu> apple claims ownership
Sep 26 06:55:58 <romainguy_> I should have figured that out :))
Sep 26 06:56:10 <monteslu> it might not be an issue
Sep 26 06:56:20 <monteslu> but SVGs are an open standard
Sep 26 06:56:36 <romainguy_> and it's quite different from <canvas/>
Sep 26 06:56:41 <monteslu> yeah
Sep 26 06:56:49 <romainguy_> SVG has its own share of issues
Sep 26 06:56:57 <umdk1d3> ooh ouch, only uncompresses up to 1mb
Sep 26 06:56:59 <monteslu> though each would potentially solve the issues I'm looking at
Sep 26 06:56:59 <romainguy_> and never really took off
Sep 26 06:57:06 <umdk1d3> 09-26 06:47:28.499: DEBUG/asset(353): Data exceeds UNCOMPRESS_DATA_MAX (3757803 vs 1048576)
Sep 26 06:57:11 <monteslu> SVG is doing ok
Sep 26 06:57:15 * umdk1d3 goes to split up files
Sep 26 06:57:25 <monteslu> it works on all popular desktop browsers
Sep 26 06:57:26 <romainguy_> monteslu: I can't even remember the last time I saw a web site that was using SVG :)
Sep 26 06:57:43 <monteslu> romainguy_, you just didnt notice the cool stuff is using it :)
Sep 26 06:57:53 <romainguy_> yeah right :)
Sep 26 06:58:20 <monteslu> seriously
Sep 26 06:58:29 <romainguy_> I am serious
Sep 26 06:58:34 <monteslu> its not like the browsers bark svg alert at you
Sep 26 06:58:38 <monteslu> they just render the stuff
Sep 26 06:59:42 <monteslu> heck, even good desktop managers like kde use it now
Sep 26 07:00:22 <romainguy_> don't they just render the SVG into bitmaps and then just use the bitmaps?
Sep 26 07:00:26 <romainguy_> and isn't it just for icons?
Sep 26 07:00:30 <romainguy_> and isn't it just KDE?
Sep 26 07:01:30 <monteslu> osx too :)
Sep 26 07:01:55 <monteslu> the implemenation might just be converting them to bitmaps
Sep 26 07:02:00 <monteslu> on the browsers i mean
Sep 26 07:02:42 <romainguy_> where does Mac OS X use SVG?
Sep 26 07:03:08 <monteslu> doesn't it use it for icons?
Sep 26 07:03:12 <romainguy_> not at all
Sep 26 07:03:13 <monteslu> I'm not an osx guy
Sep 26 07:03:15 <monteslu> really?
Sep 26 07:03:20 <monteslu> they're bitmaps?
Sep 26 07:03:20 <romainguy_> they use a set of bitmaps
Sep 26 07:03:28 <romainguy_> an icon is made of several bitmaps:
Sep 26 07:03:38 <romainguy_> 16x16, 32x32, 48x48, 96x96, etc.
Sep 26 07:03:40 <monteslu> how do they scale so cleanly?
Sep 26 07:03:43 <romainguy_> up to 512x512
Sep 26 07:03:45 <monteslu> the fishey stuff
Sep 26 07:03:48 <romainguy_> they just pick the closest one
Sep 26 07:03:52 <romainguy_> and scale that guy
Sep 26 07:03:58 <monteslu> that's kinda hackish
Sep 26 07:04:03 <romainguy_> if you scale by less than a factor of 2, the quality is great
Sep 26 07:04:05 <romainguy_> no it's not
Sep 26 07:04:11 <romainguy_> it's called mipmapping in games :)
Sep 26 07:04:26 <monteslu> sure, but not raster logo type stuff should all be math
Sep 26 07:04:30 <romainguy_> and it actually gives you much better results than scaling vectors (like SVG) at small sizes
Sep 26 07:06:22 <monteslu> I still dont see the reason to exclude it from the android browser
Sep 26 07:06:36 <romainguy_> we just didn't have time
Sep 26 07:06:49 <f00f-> os x uses postscript for their display or something
Sep 26 07:06:52 <monteslu> but isn't the code in chrome?
Sep 26 07:06:55 <f00f-> some vector stuff
Sep 26 07:06:59 <f00f-> svg or not, same thing
Sep 26 07:07:00 <romainguy_> especially given how little SVG there is on the web
Sep 26 07:07:09 <romainguy_> f00f-: er, no, that's different
Sep 26 07:07:18 <f00f-> resolution independence
Sep 26 07:07:22 <romainguy_> monteslu: Android's browser is not Chrome
Sep 26 07:07:23 <umdk1d3> hmm i wonder if there is a way to open a raw file as a sqlitedb
Sep 26 07:07:30 <romainguy_> f00f-: Mac OS X is not fully resolution independent yet
Sep 26 07:07:33 <romainguy_> they are still struggling with it
Sep 26 07:07:38 <romainguy_> it's a difficult task :((
Sep 26 07:07:39 <f00f-> oh
Sep 26 07:07:54 <monteslu> romainguy_, i know, but i understand they share a great deal of code
Sep 26 07:08:03 <romainguy_> no, just WebKit
Sep 26 07:08:16 <umdk1d3> might have to copy it to an actual file outside of apk first, but that makes sense because you mgith want to openWritable
Sep 26 07:10:08 <f00f-> you could always bundle the sqlite driver
Sep 26 07:10:14 <f00f-> but would probably be slower than the built-in sqlite
Sep 26 07:10:19 <f00f-> which i *hope* is native-optimized
Sep 26 07:10:54 <romainguy_> it is
Sep 26 07:11:11 <f00f-> yay for JNI?
Sep 26 07:11:18 <romainguy_> :)
Sep 26 07:11:48 <monteslu> romainguy_, so any chance that svg could be on the map for a 1.1 ?
Sep 26 07:12:00 <romainguy_> I highly doubt it
Sep 26 07:12:05 <romainguy_> but I have no insight on this :)
Sep 26 07:12:12 <monteslu> that's very unfortunate
Sep 26 07:12:13 <monteslu> both cases
Sep 26 07:12:41 <monteslu> is there a suggestion box,  or  something like that?
Sep 26 07:12:49 <romainguy_> the bug tracker
Sep 26 07:12:54 <romainguy_> but there's already a RFE for SVG support
Sep 26 07:13:09 <monteslu> cool. So i could just add stuff and plead my case on that?
Sep 26 07:13:15 <romainguy_> if you wish
Sep 26 07:13:20 <monteslu> i do
Sep 26 07:13:31 <swetland> also, it'll all be open source, so somebody could go ahead and implement it and then push for it to be part of the base platform
Sep 26 07:14:14 <monteslu> chrome will be too right?
Sep 26 07:14:29 <monteslu> i could take the code from one and try and wedge it into the other?
Sep 26 07:15:07 <swetland> chrome already is
Sep 26 07:15:57 <monteslu> ahh, thought it was still coming. Cool
Sep 26 07:18:12 <monteslu> just tested my dojox gfx stuff in chrome. Works fast on an AMD X2 6000+ :)
Sep 26 07:18:26 <monteslu> would probably run fast on a g1 too
Sep 26 07:28:20 <monteslu> romainguy_, if you need something to read to help you get to sleep
Sep 26 07:28:30 <monteslu> oops, cut and paste
Sep 26 07:29:25 <monteslu> http://svgopen.org/2008/papers/63-How_Ajax_Changes_the_Game_for_SVG/
Sep 26 07:31:32 <monteslu> android is even mentioned in that
Sep 26 07:33:32 <monteslu> Don't get me wrong, I love writing in Java. I think I'll be writing a few android-specific apps myself, but I also want to do some cross platform ajax apps with rich GUIs
Sep 26 07:33:41 <monteslu> and there's no way I'm touching flash to do that
Sep 26 08:33:27 <anno^da_> Oh I like the Android G1 experience. Even in the starter guide are typing errors. :/
Sep 26 08:38:11 <buster> did you ever see manuals for taiwanese phones with proper translations? :p
Sep 26 08:41:19 <anno^da_> :D
Sep 26 08:42:31 <anno^da_> Well ok but it is another proof for a not real professionel start. I dont know. The press conference, the trailers. Nothing really good and what I would expect from a shiney start.
Sep 26 08:43:01 <anno^da_> Does anybody know if you can share data between Android and other phones via Bluetooth ?
Sep 26 08:50:00 <buster> not yet
Sep 26 08:50:33 <buster> they postponed the bluetooth api because of some design issues witht he bluetooth stack, iirc
Sep 26 08:51:06 <tomgibara> Should we avoid calling commit() on an preference Editor from the UI thread?
Sep 26 08:53:37 <anno^da_> Hmm I've done it several times tomgibara but I dont really know if we should avoid it.
Sep 26 08:54:08 <tomgibara> Me too, but it's only just occured to me that it's probably doing IO
Sep 26 08:54:36 <tomgibara> The question is whether the framework does the dirty work of moving the writes in commit off the calling thread
Sep 26 08:55:09 <tomgibara> we need the source - I can't wait
Sep 26 08:56:31 <anno^da_> Yeah that would be interesting.
Sep 26 08:56:40 <anno^da_> Hmm well you have to wait :-)
Sep 26 08:56:50 <anno^da_> Or directly get it out of the UI thread.
Sep 26 08:57:11 <tomgibara> There are just so many questions you can answer yourself when you have the source
Sep 26 08:57:37 <anno^da_> Yeah I know.
Sep 26 08:57:48 <anno^da_> What was the expected date? Q4?
Sep 26 08:57:55 <tomgibara> yeah
Sep 26 08:58:05 <anno^da_> Q4 2008 - Source code released .. ok
Sep 26 08:58:33 <anno^da_> Have you ported your app to 0.9 / 1.0 tomgibara?
Sep 26 08:59:26 <tomgibara> Moseycode, not yet - I've done most of the work, but changes in the camera apis have convinced me that there's nothing useful left to do now on the client until I own a device
Sep 26 08:59:48 <tomgibara> I've been producing several other apps too though
Sep 26 09:00:10 <anno^da_> Ok yeah thats true. At the moment you just get that useless data stream from the cam right ?
Sep 26 09:00:24 <anno^da_> (the nice google guy picture :-) )
Sep 26 09:00:45 <tomgibara> I never used it, because I wrote some code to bypass it with a webcam and TCP/IP
Sep 26 09:00:53 <anno^da_> What are you working on? If I'm allowed to ask.
Sep 26 09:01:45 <tomgibara> I've been producing a game called "Daisy Chase" to practice using View animations mainly (you can be much more over the top in Game UIs) - nothing terrific, just a simple
Sep 26 09:02:23 <tomgibara> And I've been working on an app where I've focused on keeping things ultra simple
Sep 26 09:03:04 <tomgibara> My aim was to produce the smallest useful app I could think of, I'm keeping quiet on that because I might decide to sell it
Sep 26 09:03:36 <tomgibara> I've also been helping to get the Cooking Capsules application ready
Sep 26 09:04:06 <anno^da_> Ah great.
Sep 26 09:04:19 <anno^da_> I'm curious about the ultra simple app :-)
Sep 26 09:05:02 <tomgibara> Well it's not earth shattering, but since I'm planning to open source Moseycode, and give away the game, I thought I'd try selling something too!
Sep 26 09:05:45 <anno^da_> Yeah I thought about that too. I will mix up things. Something free and something paid. (and perhaps later on open source it)
Sep 26 09:05:58 <buster> mh, if i want to start some game for android (i have some freetime and boredom this weekend :p ). how would i start? use a <view> or <surfaceview> in the layout.xml or do i append my custom view class to the existing somehow? :F
Sep 26 09:06:27 <tomgibara> I recommend a surface view and then a thread to render to it
Sep 26 09:06:45 <tomgibara> But you may want to use an OpenGL surface for better performance
Sep 26 09:07:05 <buster> mh, probably..
Sep 26 09:07:17 <tomgibara> I couldn't because I was using Path rendering, but if the performance is too poor I may need to change things.
Sep 26 09:08:20 <buster> how do i get an opengl surface?
Sep 26 09:08:44 <tomgibara> Just look at the sample activities
Sep 26 09:09:59 <buster> ah, the apps-for-android stuff?
Sep 26 09:10:33 <tomgibara> buster: No the API Demos that come with the SDK
Sep 26 09:10:59 <buster> oh yes :)
Sep 26 09:11:00 <buster> thanks
Sep 26 09:13:13 <buster> http://pics.nase-bohren.de/macmini.jpg :P
Sep 26 09:23:07 <anno^da_> http://www.biggu.com/ <- this app grows more and more even the UI looks polished now.
Sep 26 09:24:45 <buster> yep <3
Sep 26 09:27:22 <anno^da_> Thats one of my most have apps :D
Sep 26 09:27:31 <anno^da_> -most +must :D
Sep 26 09:38:48 <anno^da_> Someone from Google her that can address this issue: http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/browse_thread/thread/4b3e7a099931beb9#
Sep 26 09:46:27 <tric> anno^da: well, google dev in here said a) we can set g1 to dev mode and even use adb install and remote debugging using most usual tools
Sep 26 09:47:00 <tric> and b) there is a setting in g1 (which is missing in emulator, bug is filed) to allow install from different websites
Sep 26 09:47:14 <anno^da_> ah ok.
Sep 26 09:47:46 <tric> BUT, maybe even if they claim they own a retail phone, ours will be more retail (restricted). who knows
Sep 26 09:48:15 <tric> the dev mode would be cool, i really wanna have one to try and test
Sep 26 09:49:39 <anno^da_> Well I wouldnt buy a phone where I am not able to test. So I don't think they will restrict it so much. But ok we know the carriers. :-)
Sep 26 09:49:52 <tric> well: 08:17:00 < fn~romainguy_> monteslu: the SDK ships the same bits as the device
Sep 26 09:50:14 <tric> this cannot be true, cause when you press settings in current 1.0 emu, there is no settings activity
Sep 26 09:50:39 <tric> i really doubt htc/tmobile will ship the device with this bug.
Sep 26 09:53:10 <anno^da_> The next interesting thing will be the availability of hardware looking at the upcoming ADC II
Sep 26 09:54:04 <swetland> the SDK ships *nearly* the same bits as the device
Sep 26 09:54:11 <swetland> probably 95% overlap
Sep 26 09:54:29 <anno^da_> It would be an unfair challenge. Devs with hardware competing against developers without hardware. I dont know.
Sep 26 09:54:46 <swetland> on the production TMO G1 devices, app install via web and via adb / eclipse plugin are support.  They must first be enabled via settings.
Sep 26 09:55:23 <anno^da_> swetland: Perhaps some Google Dev advocat could confirm that in the Groups.
Sep 26 09:55:27 <swetland> the development tools you use with the emulator work with real hardware pretty much identically
Sep 26 09:55:44 <anno^da_> Because there are now 3 threads with rumours about that topic.
Sep 26 09:56:22 <swetland> I tried to reply to that thread.  Not entirely sure where my post went.
Sep 26 09:56:31 <swetland> I'm sure somebody will clear it up in any event
Sep 26 09:57:26 <tric> anno: i would more trust a tmobile documentation telling me i can install from everywhere and supporting dev before spending 400$
Sep 26 09:57:31 <anno^da_> Ah great. Because rumours are not that good. Especially if they make it to the first blogs. :-)
Sep 26 09:58:13 <tric> swetland: 100% cant be true, cause romainguy told use we are unable to get a root shell on g1, sadly
Sep 26 09:59:03 <swetland> as I said, "pretty much identically".  There are some minor differences.
Sep 26 09:59:24 <swetland> But at the end of the day, you can install and debug apps, etc, in the same way you can with the emulator
Sep 26 09:59:42 <swetland> most of the tools for that predated the existence of the emulator.  adb originally *only* talked to real hardware
Sep 26 10:00:48 <tric> well, when i plugin a real device and of course have emu and sdk installed, where will adb install <apk> put my apk? ;)
Sep 26 10:01:05 <swetland> it will give you an error
Sep 26 10:01:13 <swetland> because you didn't specify which to talk to
Sep 26 10:01:31 <swetland> same thing if you have multiple devices plugged in at once
Sep 26 10:02:19 <tric> ah, never noticed the "-s <serial number>" flag ;)
Sep 26 10:02:22 <swetland> you can specify device (-d) or emulator (-e) or a specific target by serial number (-s ...)
Sep 26 10:02:40 <swetland> -d and -e cover the common case where you only have one of each
Sep 26 10:03:44 <tric> .o(ok, so finally someone get me one device now! ;))
Sep 26 10:04:33 <anno^da_> Well tric import one for me as well ;)
Sep 26 10:05:02 <tric> hehe, well. we have a .us guy, i only need someone who pays, and ill have to wait till end of october :(
Sep 26 10:06:00 <anno^da_> Great so here we have the main importer for G1s in Germany :-)
Sep 26 10:07:56 <tric> haha
Sep 26 10:12:15 <anno^da_> Is there some profile management in the default android os? (havent installed 1.0 for some reasons at the moment)
Sep 26 10:12:45 <tric> profile for?
Sep 26 10:12:58 <anno^da_> Well profiles for settings like: office, home, etc
Sep 26 10:13:06 <anno^da_> like in every phone os we know :P
Sep 26 10:13:09 <tric> not that i discovered, as i said, there are no settings but the development settings available
Sep 26 10:13:27 <tric> seems like they missed to include it into emu
Sep 26 10:13:48 <anno^da_> Well I havent seen it in the videos from the G1 covering the settings menue
Sep 26 10:15:57 <anno^da_> Because if that isnt available we have the next thing about normal consumers will complain. Since this is a feature my 8 years old Nokia 3330 has :-)
Sep 26 10:16:43 <anno^da_> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_3310  <- haha history :)
Sep 26 10:19:25 <swetland> http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/app.html?id=25
Sep 26 10:20:11 <swetland> given that they can do that, I suspect one could build any number of fancy settings profile things
Sep 26 10:20:37 <tric> hmm, but there is no simple default included?
Sep 26 10:21:15 <tric> given i have to tell my mom how to install apps, dont think she will ever do such thing as install ;)
Sep 26 10:21:24 <swetland> I don't think there's a profiles thing in 1.0 (kinda unfortunate, I really liked the time-based settings we had in hiptop)
Sep 26 10:21:45 <tric> oh. normal consumers will complain
Sep 26 10:21:55 <swetland> people will complain about any number of things
Sep 26 10:22:07 <swetland> and some set of those things will be fixed in future releases
Sep 26 10:22:21 <swetland> and some set of those things will be addressed by third parties
Sep 26 10:22:49 <anno^da_> swetland: The point is that a normal consumer will never pay for a feature every cheap phone os has.
Sep 26 10:23:17 <anno^da_> I know that there is Locale but basic profile management is such a basic thing.
Sep 26 10:24:24 <anno^da_> It is ok to leave features for third parties but not the most basic ones.
Sep 26 10:24:29 <swetland> 1.0 is what it is.  There are things there that I wouldn't have expected in the first release and certainly there will be things not there that people want.
Sep 26 10:24:40 <anno^da_> True.
Sep 26 10:25:17 <swetland> at some point you have to ship and take care of stuff in follow-on versions or with third party apps
Sep 26 10:25:21 <swetland> otherwise you never ship
Sep 26 10:26:43 <anno^da_> Yeah thats true. But customers wont forget that the os is missing some of the most basic features they know from their handsets. (profiles, video playback/recording, data exchange via BT)
Sep 26 10:27:02 <anno^da_> They are used to them since 10 years.
Sep 26 10:27:24 <anno^da_> Ok 10 years is too much.
Sep 26 10:28:20 <anno^da_> I understand what you mean but I'm curious if the customers will accept that.
Sep 26 10:29:05 <swetland> I think there will be many factors that decide if this product or the platform is successful
Sep 26 10:29:20 <swetland> I'd be surprised if lack of settings profiles in 1.0 would be the thing that killed it ^^
Sep 26 10:29:56 <swetland> but hey, I'm a kernel engineer, I am hardly an expert on what average phone buyers (or average smartphone buyers) want or what they consider a deal breaker
Sep 26 10:30:01 <tomgibara> Personally I hate profiles
Sep 26 10:30:38 <tomgibara> I think they are a feature that has been copied from phone to phone without thinking about their actual practical utility
Sep 26 10:35:04 <anno^da_> Well tomgibara but a lot of people are used to them. I know that this features wont kill the platform. I'm just curious about some of these features missing.
Sep 26 10:36:07 <anno^da_> It is just the experience I'm getting after reading through thousands of comments throughout the whole blogs, news pages etc. A lot of the people are complaining about these things.
Sep 26 10:36:41 <tomgibara> I acknowledge that my dislike of profiles is quite personal: I just keep forgetting to switch them back. I half had an idea that perhaps everyone was as forgetful as me.
Sep 26 10:37:22 <anno^da_> :D
Sep 26 10:37:33 <anno^da_> So Locale is the thing for you :-)
Sep 26 10:37:52 <anno^da_> Switching profiles automatically based on your location.
Sep 26 10:37:59 <tomgibara> I've always been skeptical of that... for a start GPS is a power drain and secondly IBM have a patent on it
Sep 26 10:38:07 <anno^da_> Thats true.
Sep 26 10:38:26 <anno^da_> The power drain is the the thing I'm worried about.
Sep 26 10:39:00 <anno^da_> There are a lot of GPS enabled apps that come to my mind but they will suck the phones battery to zero in quite a countable time.
Sep 26 10:39:00 <tomgibara> I'm not clear on how apps access the GPS if it isn't active.
Sep 26 10:39:14 <anno^da_> You can get the last known location.
Sep 26 10:39:36 <tomgibara> Does the app have to explicitly switch it on, or does it come on when an app requests location updates
Sep 26 10:39:43 <anno^da_> Or you can ask for your current location. Which takes some time. And you get a callback after it is available.
Sep 26 10:40:28 <anno^da_> If the GPS is available already it wont take that long to get the current location.
Sep 26 10:40:41 <anno^da_> If it is not available it will take some time to get it on.
Sep 26 10:40:56 <tomgibara> I know, I've used the APIs quite a bit, what I'm not clear on is does an application or user need to enable the GPS first
Sep 26 10:41:37 <anno^da_> Thats a good question. I would expect him not to have it enabled.
Sep 26 10:42:52 <anno^da_> But well yeah I'm not sure about that.
Sep 26 10:43:09 <anno^da_> I've also just used the API in 0.9
Sep 26 12:38:34 <Dougie187> Anyone check this out yet?
Sep 26 12:38:35 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/t-mobile-g1-manual-leaks-out/
Sep 26 12:43:01 <tric> info about dev support is missing! ;)
Sep 26 12:44:09 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 26 12:44:11 <Dougie187> true
Sep 26 12:44:23 <Dougie187> its not very entertaining to read if you don't have the phone too.
Sep 26 12:45:51 <tric> even with the phone its boring
Sep 26 12:46:00 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 26 12:46:05 <Dougie187> well, it is rather short
Sep 26 12:46:13 <Dougie187> but i typically enjoy going through the manual with a new phone
Sep 26 12:47:12 <tric> its a quick startup manual
Sep 26 12:47:23 <tric> i usually dont use manuals ;)
Sep 26 12:47:24 <Dougie187> yeah,
Sep 26 12:47:32 <Dougie187> I think its fun to play with the manual
Sep 26 12:47:35 <Dougie187> then you learn everything.
Sep 26 12:47:46 <Dougie187> even the "hidden" obscure features.
Sep 26 13:00:11 <Dougie187> hows it going yakischloba?
Sep 26 13:01:04 <yakischloba> alright..except I own stock in wamu lol
Sep 26 13:01:55 <tric> haha
Sep 26 13:02:02 <yakischloba> fuck
Sep 26 13:02:50 <yakischloba> not to mention I'm the only one on shift for the entire day, and I have some management bitch coming from headquarters to bother me
Sep 26 13:02:55 <yakischloba> i've had better friday mornings :)
Sep 26 13:05:12 <Dougie187> thats no good.
Sep 26 13:07:57 <yakischloba> anyway. how are you? any cool android news this morning?
Sep 26 13:08:03 <Dougie187> eh, not really
Sep 26 13:08:06 <Dougie187> but im good.
Sep 26 13:08:12 <yakischloba> cool
Sep 26 13:08:24 <Dougie187> writing a finite difference code for the 2d Poisson's equation
Sep 26 13:08:41 <Dougie187> and extending that to model heat diffusion on a fin
Sep 26 13:08:46 <yakischloba> thrilling. If I'd made it past the 9th grade I might know what that is ;)
Sep 26 13:08:54 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 26 13:10:00 <Dougie187> i read through the G1 Manual though
Sep 26 13:10:04 <Dougie187> (quick start manual)
Sep 26 13:10:07 <Dougie187> its rather boring
Sep 26 13:10:10 <yakischloba> I bet.
Sep 26 13:10:23 <yakischloba> I don't imagine it will be too hard to figure out.
Sep 26 13:22:13 <ttuttle> Good morning.
Sep 26 13:23:48 <yakischloba> I wonder how I have previously neglected to recognize this delicacy - dipping a banana in yogurt
Sep 26 13:24:43 <Dougie187> dip it in yogurt and then granola.
Sep 26 13:24:50 <yakischloba> ahh thats even better
Sep 26 13:24:56 <yakischloba> wish i had some here.
Sep 26 13:25:27 <yakischloba> i have this banana and yogurt almost every morning but i've never done this before
Sep 26 13:25:29 <yakischloba> silly me
Sep 26 13:25:43 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 26 13:25:56 <Dougie187> or you could even mix your granola in your yogurt and then dip your banana in it
Sep 26 13:26:10 <yakischloba> i've done that, without the banana
Sep 26 13:26:19 <Dougie187> and its awesome.
Sep 26 13:26:25 <yakischloba> yup
Sep 26 13:56:56 <Assid> heya
Sep 26 14:02:33 <Assid> anyone?
Sep 26 14:02:37 <Dougie187> hola
Sep 26 14:03:07 <Assid> how come google decided to tie up with htc for g1 and make it like the iphone and not off trhe shelf gsm (unlocked)
Sep 26 14:03:30 <Dougie187> because thats what they decided to do?
Sep 26 14:03:53 <Assid> for a company thats referring to open source OS and tryingtoget more people on it, specially the developers, this doesnt really sound like a "for everyone" situation
Sep 26 14:04:12 <Dougie187> ok
Sep 26 14:04:14 <tale_> Assid, that may happen in the future
Sep 26 14:04:22 <monteslu> because americans won't spend 400 bucks in one shot, but we'll spend 200 and sign a huge contract any time
Sep 26 14:04:22 <tale_> who knows
Sep 26 14:04:30 <monteslu> look at our current economic crises for details
Sep 26 14:05:13 <Assid> well considering htc can sell them windows mobile for 300 odd.. and still pay ms their licensign fees, dont see why theycant keep those rates and give free os
Sep 26 14:06:04 <Assid> and if nokia can sell e71 - off the shelf for 400 bucks.. i dont see why they couldnt have a dual purchase method..
Sep 26 14:06:15 <Assid> people who want to buy it outright.. for 350-400
Sep 26 14:06:38 <monteslu> Assid, you're right. Not sure why the option isn't there
Sep 26 14:06:52 <monteslu> I would have rather not been locked into another 25 a month for the data plan
Sep 26 14:07:11 <Dougie187> but the option is there, its just through tmobile.
Sep 26 14:07:18 <monteslu> I'm usually near a wifi spot, and 2g/edge would be fine otherwise
Sep 26 14:07:21 <Dougie187> its like 400 for the phone without a contract.
Sep 26 14:07:26 <Assid> bah
Sep 26 14:07:30 <Assid> i hate the timing of this
Sep 26 14:07:32 <Dougie187> then you can unlock it
Sep 26 14:07:32 <Assid> i just bought a e71
Sep 26 14:07:50 <monteslu> return it :)
Sep 26 14:07:57 <Assid> too little too late
Sep 26 14:08:00 <Assid> and im in asia
Sep 26 14:08:06 <Assid> india to be precise
Sep 26 14:08:12 <Assid> theres a huge cell phone market here
Sep 26 14:08:28 <monteslu> then resell, take the hit and get g1
Sep 26 14:08:39 <Dougie187> the phone isnt even going to be available in india for over a month
Sep 26 14:08:48 <Dougie187> i don't even remember then stating a release date for india
Sep 26 14:08:57 <monteslu> well, i wont be actually getting mine for a almost a month
Sep 26 14:08:59 <Assid> yeah, thats why i went ahead with it
Sep 26 14:09:27 <Dougie187> but tmobile is going to sell the g1 without a contract for 400 bucks and you can unlock it without them complaining, (though they want you to wait 90 days)
Sep 26 14:10:08 <Assid> see thats another thing.. they shouldnt have that
Sep 26 14:10:17 <Assid> they should just allow overt the counter
Sep 26 14:10:28 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-g1-gets-release-date-and-pricing/
Sep 26 14:10:39 <Dougie187> call the up and try to fight them on it.,
Sep 26 14:10:44 <Assid> asia is a super big market for cell phones
Sep 26 14:10:47 <Dougie187> it seems like a decent business move to me.
Sep 26 14:10:49 <Assid> and i mean super huge
Sep 26 14:10:57 <monteslu> should be, there's a billion of you guys :)
Sep 26 14:11:23 <Assid> every friend of mine before the iphone switch, changed their phone between 6-18 months
Sep 26 14:11:24 <Assid> thats it
Sep 26 14:11:30 <Dougie187> Assid: you have to admit, its better then not having a contract free phone at all.
Sep 26 14:12:08 <Assid> Dougie187: see.. im not saying dont sell without contract
Sep 26 14:12:13 <Assid> but dual contract it
Sep 26 14:12:20 <monteslu> Thing is, I'm not sure I could do much better for a data plan than what tmobile is offering anyway if I got the thing for 400 instead of the 179 i paid
Sep 26 14:12:22 <Assid> err.. dual price it
Sep 26 14:12:22 <Dougie187> what do you mean?
Sep 26 14:12:26 <Dougie187> dual price it?
Sep 26 14:12:39 <Assid> over the counter X amt.. and contract Y amount
Sep 26 14:12:49 <Dougie187> ...
Sep 26 14:12:51 <Dougie187> thats what it is...
Sep 26 14:12:55 <Dougie187> 179 with a contract
Sep 26 14:12:58 <Dougie187> 400 over the counter
Sep 26 14:12:58 <Assid> right but through t-mobile
Sep 26 14:13:04 <Dougie187> sure.
Sep 26 14:13:08 <monteslu> i don't like being locked in though
Sep 26 14:13:10 <Dougie187> tmobile wants to make money on the deal.
Sep 26 14:13:12 <Assid> they should have had htc take care of the ovr the counter
Sep 26 14:13:18 <Assid> means they can sell everywhere..
Sep 26 14:13:23 <Dougie187> thats up to htc though.
Sep 26 14:13:24 <Assid> asia/ australia / europe
Sep 26 14:13:34 <Dougie187> why not just wait for other android phones to come out
Sep 26 14:13:38 <Dougie187> im sure you will get that whole situation
Sep 26 14:13:42 <Assid> i am gonna
Sep 26 14:13:45 <Dougie187> this one is just the first, so they are doing this stuff.
Sep 26 14:13:53 <Dougie187> at least they give you some options.
Sep 26 14:13:56 <Assid> i dont know if i will choose to change immediately anwyays
Sep 26 14:14:05 <Dougie187> and i mean, even if HTC was going to sell it, you don't know it would be available in asia.
Sep 26 14:14:07 <Assid> third party apps etc.. still to grow
Sep 26 14:14:19 <Assid> err. htc has a strong presence here
Sep 26 14:14:26 <Assid> most windows mobile phones here are htc
Sep 26 14:14:31 <Dougie187> sure, but that doesn't mean they would release this phone there.
Sep 26 14:14:38 <Assid> yeah
Sep 26 14:14:50 <Assid> i know.. thats why im crossed
Sep 26 14:15:00 <Dougie187> its sort of like how all the germans use to argue.
Sep 26 14:15:15 <Dougie187> they said the phone was for sure going to be released in germany the same day as US because tmobile is huge in germany.
Sep 26 14:15:26 <Dougie187> and i said, you don't know that. hell we don't even know it will be released in the US first.
Sep 26 14:15:34 <Dougie187> and look at what happened.
Sep 26 14:15:39 <Dougie187> germany comes later.
Sep 26 14:15:43 <ligi_> Dougie187: its wat we hope
Sep 26 14:15:53 <Dougie187> ligi_: i know. but some people stated it as fact.
Sep 26 14:16:35 <ligi_> Dougie187: auto suggestion ^^
Sep 26 14:16:46 <Dougie187> ?
Sep 26 14:16:57 <Assid> another cool thing, would be to get something liek a force flash foor nokia phones
Sep 26 14:17:00 <ligi_> "it _will_ come the same day as in us"
Sep 26 14:17:05 <Assid> push my e71 -> android
Sep 26 14:17:09 <ligi_> *repeating 100 times*
Sep 26 14:17:32 <Dougie187> Assid: i will be willing to bet that google will not release something like that.
Sep 26 14:17:41 <Assid> yeah i know
Sep 26 14:17:54 <Dougie187> you might (probably will at some point) get some 3rd party developer who comes up with something similar to that.
Sep 26 14:20:24 <Assid> would be sweet if they do
Sep 26 14:20:34 <Assid> get more people flash over
Sep 26 14:20:42 <Dougie187> it might take some time for nokias though
Sep 26 14:20:56 <Dougie187> because i doubt android will have built in support for nokia hardware.
Sep 26 14:20:57 <Dougie187> but ionno.
Sep 26 14:21:03 <Dougie187> we shall see
Sep 26 14:22:44 <Assid> hrmm
Sep 26 14:22:55 <Assid> i think the support for other windows mobile might come first
Sep 26 14:22:58 <Assid> since htc makes it
Sep 26 14:24:08 <Dougie187> i agree
Sep 26 14:24:25 <Dougie187> but only htc devices.
Sep 26 14:24:31 <Dougie187> then probably other carrier phones.
Sep 26 14:24:38 <Dougie187> err.. oha manufacturer phones
Sep 26 14:24:40 <Dougie187> like samsung
Sep 26 14:24:49 <Dougie187> LG i think
Sep 26 14:25:04 <Dougie187> and motorola
Sep 26 14:25:58 <Assid> lets see..
Sep 26 14:26:05 <Assid> i wouldnt mind loading it on the nokia
Sep 26 14:26:38 <Assid> they really should find people to do it
Sep 26 14:26:46 <Assid> atleast for older phones.. like the e61
Sep 26 14:27:02 <Dougie187> well noone can even get started until it actually comes out.
Sep 26 14:27:17 * Assid throws a fit.. cmon already!
Sep 26 14:27:56 <Assid> some reviews i read suggest that its slower than the iphone tho
Sep 26 14:28:47 <Dougie187> i have heard that about the browser.
Sep 26 14:32:18 <Assid> hope they streamline eveyrhting
Sep 26 14:32:29 <Assid> alrite bbl.. gonna watch some tv.. and get ready
Sep 26 14:49:10 <jasta> yawn
Sep 26 14:51:23 <yakischloba> tell me about it.
Sep 26 14:52:22 <wastrel> phones are thingy
Sep 26 14:52:25 <wastrel> useful
Sep 26 15:07:49 <slux> hi
Sep 26 15:08:02 <slux> someone have allready a G1 t-mobile phone?
Sep 26 15:08:20 <jasta> plenty of people, but no one outside of the OHA
Sep 26 15:09:03 <tale_> I'd love to have android on this: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/samsung-spits-out-second-8-megapixel-mobile-christens-it-pixon/
Sep 26 15:09:32 <tale_> the lack of buttons would probably be a problem
Sep 26 15:09:48 <wastrel> what's oha
Sep 26 15:10:05 <tale_> open handset alliance
Sep 26 15:10:38 <wastrel> it's interesting that phones are turning into pda's
Sep 26 15:10:47 <wastrel> that thing looks like my t|x
Sep 26 15:11:05 <wastrel> after all the pda's turned into blackberrys
Sep 26 15:16:57 <tale_> no wifi, so maybe I don't want it after all
Sep 26 15:19:13 <Dougie187> wastrel: your argument is rather circular
Sep 26 15:20:28 <benley> SO IS YOUR MOM LOL KEKEKEKEKE
Sep 26 15:21:26 <Dougie187> thank you for bringing out the 12 year old in all of us.
Sep 26 15:21:37 <Dougie187> and reminding us of starcraft.
Sep 26 15:21:41 <wastrel> i'm just talking about looks
Sep 26 15:22:01 <ttuttle> benley: ...
Sep 26 15:22:04 <Dougie187> im just saying how you said phones are turning into pdas now, but its funny how the pda turned into the blackberry
Sep 26 15:22:25 <Dougie187> if pdas were blackberries, that would imply that phones are turning into blackberries.
Sep 26 15:22:29 <wastrel> right - apple newton, palm pilot, palm  - tablets - big touchscreens.
Sep 26 15:22:41 <Dougie187> yeah
Sep 26 15:22:47 <wastrel> then blackberry and smartphones took over and everything had a small square screen and a keyboard
Sep 26 15:22:57 <wastrel> now iphone is turning everything into the tablet agani.
Sep 26 15:23:26 <wastrel> g1 is best of both worlds, big tablet screen and a nice keypad.
Sep 26 15:23:33 <Dougie187> yeah
Sep 26 15:23:36 <Dougie187> like the touch pro
Sep 26 15:23:45 <Dougie187> that is a sweet looking phone too, but its pretty fat
Sep 26 15:23:45 <wastrel> it has a couple of deficiencies hardware wise but i'm very happy with it.
Sep 26 15:23:54 <wastrel> meh i have a palm tx in my pocket.
Sep 26 15:24:01 <wastrel> and a crappy flipphone in the other
Sep 26 15:47:13 <SanMehat> morning
Sep 26 15:48:16 <cbeust_> yo
Sep 26 15:49:31 <SanMehat> hey cbeust_ whats shaking
Sep 26 15:49:53 <jasta> strange that some apps use the white theme and others use the dark theme
Sep 26 15:49:55 <jasta> i dont like that
Sep 26 15:50:15 <SanMehat> i like cheese
Sep 26 15:50:27 <cbeust_> What a small world, I like cheese too.
Sep 26 15:50:32 <SanMehat> wow!
Sep 26 16:35:10 <jasta> http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm30235.pdf -- this gives the most information about apps we've seen to date :)
Sep 26 16:38:38 <jasta> so i've noticed there's no visual voicemail :(
Sep 26 16:38:48 <benley> didn't apple patent the shit out of that or something?
Sep 26 16:38:57 <jasta> let me guess, AT&T/Apple has a patent?
Sep 26 16:39:04 * benley lunches
Sep 26 16:39:30 <summatusmentis> VZW is supposed to be implementing visual voicemail too
Sep 26 16:39:59 <ttuttle> jasta: I believe it's patented, yes.
Sep 26 16:40:02 <jasta> why dont thye at least offer voicemail as e-mail, that aint patented
Sep 26 16:40:12 <jasta> then we can write an app to manage them all the same
Sep 26 16:41:20 <romainguy_> jasta: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=45756&topic=1565&hl=en
Sep 26 16:41:25 <romainguy_> here's some part of it :)
Sep 26 16:41:52 <ttuttle> Nice.
Sep 26 16:45:46 <jasta> well, how does this work with your t-mobile voicemail?
Sep 26 16:45:54 <jasta> and is this supported in Android?
Sep 26 16:46:10 <ttuttle> jasta: Does T-Mobile == Google Talk?
Sep 26 16:47:18 <jasta> well then how is that even helpful?
Sep 26 16:47:32 <ttuttle> jasta: It's not, for T-Mobile voicemail.
Sep 26 16:48:01 <summatusmentis> just that the technology is already sort of there
Sep 26 16:48:01 <jasta> romainguy_: so, there you have it, that's not helpful :)
Sep 26 16:48:14 <romainguy_> that's why I said "here's some part of it"
Sep 26 16:49:43 <jasonlee> romainguy_: you're on vacation aren't you?
Sep 26 16:49:54 <romainguy_> I am
Sep 26 16:50:07 <jasonlee> everytime i make it out to google your on vacation =(
Sep 26 16:50:22 <romainguy_> )
Sep 26 16:50:30 <Cedric2> That can't be a coincidence
Sep 26 16:51:30 <jasonlee> cedric: i suspect it's not, everytime i'm at google it's for some kind of event or conference..
Sep 26 16:52:13 <f00f-> 10th anniversary celebrations eh?
Sep 26 16:55:09 <ttuttle> romainguy_: Oh man, this is so exciting.
Sep 26 17:01:04 <chouman82> quick question, a service dies when the activity's (that started the service) onFinish() is called right?
Sep 26 17:01:37 <ttuttle> chouman82: I don't think so.  The service keeps running in the background -- that's the point.
Sep 26 17:01:45 <ttuttle> chouman82: You'd have to explicitly stop it, I think.
Sep 26 17:02:10 <chouman82> oh ok
Sep 26 17:02:16 <chouman82> so if the activity is done
Sep 26 17:02:39 <chouman82> we'll have to start the activity again and then stoped the service from there?
Sep 26 17:03:29 <ttuttle> chouman82: Yes.
Sep 26 17:03:35 <chouman82> alright i'll try it oug
Sep 26 17:03:37 <chouman82> out
Sep 26 17:03:38 <chouman82> thanks
Sep 26 17:03:42 <ttuttle> chouman82: It might help if you explain what you're trying to do -- what the activity and service are for.
Sep 26 17:06:56 <chouman82> well i wanted to have a customized InCallScreen
Sep 26 17:09:30 <ttuttle> chouman82: Good luck ;-)
Sep 26 17:09:34 <chouman82> haha yea
Sep 26 17:09:45 <ttuttle> chouman82: I don't think that's possible right now.
Sep 26 17:09:56 <chouman82> yea i know
Sep 26 17:10:20 <chouman82> that's why i was thinking that i'll use a service to have the PhoneStateListener
Sep 26 17:10:34 <chouman82> and then just have another screen that pops up on top of the regular screen
Sep 26 17:10:34 <ttuttle> chouman82: So you'll just monitor the phone state and display it?
Sep 26 17:10:40 <chouman82> yea
Sep 26 17:10:40 <ttuttle> chouman82: What's it going to show?
Sep 26 17:10:56 <chouman82> just a screen with more info about the caller perhaps
Sep 26 17:11:08 <ttuttle> chouman82: Ah.
Sep 26 17:11:23 <ttuttle> chouman82: Lemme check something.
Sep 26 17:11:25 <chouman82> still working on the idea but just want to figure out if it's possible
Sep 26 17:12:45 <ttuttle> This gives me an idea.
Sep 26 17:12:52 <chouman82> ?
Sep 26 17:13:03 <chouman82> wat is it?
Sep 26 17:36:37 <jasta> chouman82: this is not a good idea what you're trying to do here
Sep 26 17:37:11 <jasta> you want to wait until android has this functionality properly supported
Sep 26 17:37:44 <jasta> or, actually, until you have an unlocked phone and you can just hack a replacement call screen apk
Sep 26 17:42:26 <saraneya> progress bar is not working as expected
Sep 26 17:44:48 <jasta> can you elaborate?
Sep 26 17:45:10 <summatusmentis> not showing progress >_>
Sep 26 17:45:24 <jasta> ProgressBar definitely does that.
Sep 26 17:45:33 <jasta> perhaps you need to set it to a determinate state.
Sep 26 17:46:53 <saraneya> progress bar doesn't show immediately
Sep 26 17:47:09 <saraneya> there's this blank screen shown..
Sep 26 17:47:32 <jasta> this is not a fun game we're playing here.
Sep 26 17:48:04 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 26 17:48:18 <kingkung> saraneya, you have to make sure the invisibility property is set to "off"
Sep 26 17:48:32 <kingkung> i think it's defaulted to "on"
Sep 26 17:48:48 <jasta> kingkung: no you don't, its default visible.
Sep 26 17:48:54 <jasta> it's*
Sep 26 17:49:14 <jasta> saraneya: perhaps you didn't call setContentView, but that's the only guess i'm willing to make.  show us code, explain more, or bugger off.
Sep 26 17:50:44 <kingkung> jasta: okay, but i'm going with my invisibility theory
Sep 26 17:52:12 <saraneya> nope
Sep 26 17:52:20 <saraneya> its about threads
Sep 26 17:52:53 <saraneya> setcontentview is called
Sep 26 17:52:57 <saraneya> then a service
Sep 26 17:53:00 <jasta> we can't help you without more information or code.  period.
Sep 26 17:53:55 <saraneya> ok.. let me download eclipse
Sep 26 17:54:37 <jasta> what does that have to do with your problem?
Sep 26 17:55:35 <saraneya> why a progress bar is not shown?
Sep 26 17:55:38 <kingkung> cuz he hasn't written any code yet
Sep 26 17:55:47 <kingkung> so he needs to download eclipse to do so
Sep 26 17:56:09 <saraneya> its showing only after the service returns
Sep 26 17:57:15 <jasta> saraneya: are you actually looking for help or just talking to yourself?
Sep 26 17:57:54 <saraneya> jasta: heard you are the android king
Sep 26 17:58:32 <saraneya> i call setcontentview and progress bar in create
Sep 26 17:58:35 <yakischloba> lolcano
Sep 26 17:58:41 <jasta> oh my god, i'm going to strangle this guy
Sep 26 17:58:47 <saraneya> but it doesn't show up until the service returns
Sep 26 17:58:57 <jasta> bbl, lunch
Sep 26 17:59:03 <yakischloba> perfect
Sep 26 17:59:08 <kingkung> i think u should download eclipse first
Sep 26 17:59:55 <saraneya> good idea
Sep 26 18:00:06 <saraneya> kingkung: what ide you use?
Sep 26 18:02:06 <benley> vim!
Sep 26 18:06:38 <lesceil> jasta: LOL
Sep 26 18:13:41 <saraneya> benley: get a life
Sep 26 18:14:12 <saraneya> if you are programming in vim you are effed up
Sep 26 18:14:51 <Cedric2> vi is a radioactive editor: you should never use it for more than a few minutes at a time or it will damage your brain forever
Sep 26 18:15:17 <benley> saraneya: I am programming in vim
Sep 26 18:15:50 <saraneya> benley: do you want to repeat what i said?
Sep 26 18:15:55 <Cedric2> I consider myself a vi power user and I use a lot of shortcuts that probably very few vi users use, but nobody should be editing Java in it
Sep 26 18:15:56 <f00f-> i swear by vim, but i'll only allow it for quick edits
Sep 26 18:16:00 <f00f-> do not write products using it
Sep 26 18:16:09 <Cedric2> foof++
Sep 26 18:16:10 <benley> I've been using it for a decade or so, I'm too brainscarred to use any other editor anymore
Sep 26 18:16:38 <saraneya> vi and emacs are fine
Sep 26 18:16:42 <jasta> i use Eclim, if anyone is curious
Sep 26 18:16:43 <saraneya> but come on!
Sep 26 18:17:28 <saraneya> eclime?
Sep 26 18:17:29 <jasta> saraneya: also, here you are unable to muster up a sensible dialog telling us what we, established engineers, should be using.
Sep 26 18:17:45 <saraneya> where the hell are you living jasta ?
Sep 26 18:18:01 <saraneya> in a cave?
Sep 26 18:18:10 <Cedric2> It's simple, really: no matter how productive you think you are in Java with emacs or vi, Eclipse or IDEA will make you more productive
Sep 26 18:18:18 <jasta> actually, in a major center of software development in the US.
Sep 26 18:18:35 <jasta> Cedric2: Again, I use Eclim.
Sep 26 18:18:48 <saraneya> jasta: loser!
Sep 26 18:18:53 <saraneya> try a real ide
Sep 26 18:19:10 <jasta> lol, who is this guy?
Sep 26 18:19:27 <yakischloba> har
Sep 26 18:19:31 <ralfz> jasta, who are you?
Sep 26 18:19:55 <saraneya> major center of software development in the US
Sep 26 18:19:59 <saraneya> hahahahahaha
Sep 26 18:20:29 <jasta> ralfz: well, in this ocntext, one of the major active members of the Android community.
Sep 26 18:20:44 <Cedric2> jasta, you forgot "... irc channel"
Sep 26 18:21:04 <jasta> did i?
Sep 26 18:21:09 <ralfz> jasta, what's your app?
Sep 26 18:21:10 <saraneya> jasta: did you participate in adc?
Sep 26 18:21:13 <jasta> ralfz: five.googlecode.com
Sep 26 18:21:19 <saraneya> WHAT?
Sep 26 18:21:29 <saraneya> fiftyfive?
Sep 26 18:21:49 <saraneya> don't you have a better name?
Sep 26 18:21:54 <fadden> Houston, we have a troll.
Sep 26 18:21:55 <ralfz> jasta, "Five is currently for M5" ??!
Sep 26 18:22:11 <jasta> ralfz: i'm rewriting it to 1.0
Sep 26 18:22:19 <saraneya> jasta:
Sep 26 18:22:22 <jasta> lots of stuff has cahnged which fundamentally changed my strategy for release
Sep 26 18:22:24 <saraneya> jasta: WTF is 5?
Sep 26 18:22:56 <saraneya> name it as 5B
Sep 26 18:23:32 <saraneya> 5 bozos!
Sep 26 18:24:16 <saraneya> checking out 55..
Sep 26 18:24:32 <jasta> ralfz: the MediaPlayer class, for example, is _very_ broken.  To the point that it is unlikely specialized streaming apps like mine will be possible.
Sep 26 18:24:48 <saraneya> SHIT!!
Sep 26 18:24:55 <jasta> the workarounds necessary are staggering, and even they don't solve all the problems.
Sep 26 18:25:07 <ralfz> jasta, there's a mediaplayer class? (just trolling :-p)
Sep 26 18:25:14 <saraneya> jasta: WTF is this?
Sep 26 18:25:40 <saraneya> WTH is 5?
Sep 26 18:25:43 <saraneya> does it work??
Sep 26 18:27:10 <saraneya> i knew it wouldn't work.. coz you couldn't answer a simple question
Sep 26 18:29:32 <saraneya> jasta>	ralfz: well, in this ocntext, one of the major active members of the Android community.
Sep 26 18:29:37 <saraneya> rofl
Sep 26 18:31:32 <Dougie187> saraneya: can you read?
Sep 26 18:32:28 <saraneya> Dougie187: can you write?
Sep 26 18:32:35 <saraneya> jasta>	saraneya: also, here you are unable to muster up a sensible dialog telling us what we, established engineers, should be using.
Sep 26 18:32:47 <saraneya> OMG!!
Sep 26 18:33:00 <saraneya> effin funny!
Sep 26 18:33:12 <saraneya> established??
Sep 26 18:33:12 <AttractiveApe> jasta has his moments.
Sep 26 18:33:23 <saraneya> lol
Sep 26 18:34:40 <Dougie187> ...
Sep 26 18:35:27 <saraneya> Doggie: are you brave enough to say something?
Sep 26 18:35:39 <pawalls> Wow.. some impressive trolling here today.
Sep 26 18:35:46 <Dougie187> totally.
Sep 26 18:36:14 <ulmen> just don't feed him anymore
Sep 26 18:36:22 <Dougie187> lol deal.
Sep 26 18:37:01 <saraneya> ulmen: who the F are you?
Sep 26 18:37:11 <ralfz> bah noise... :)
Sep 26 18:37:13 <Dougie187> the number of trolls grows proportionally to the public knowledge of the product.
Sep 26 18:37:43 <saraneya> ulmen: have you contributed anything?
Sep 26 18:37:47 <saraneya> anything at all?
Sep 26 18:38:45 <hagna> so anyway I'm trying the button example and it crashes, but where is the reason for the crash?  Pardon my newbness please.
Sep 26 18:39:08 <hagna> this is on eclipse and the example is the one listed in the API docs
Sep 26 18:39:20 <benley> saraneya: have you?
Sep 26 18:39:36 <Dougie187> benley: ... dont even start...
Sep 26 18:39:38 <ulmen> benley: just don't respond...
Sep 26 18:39:39 <benley> hehehe
Sep 26 18:39:45 <saraneya> hohoho
Sep 26 18:39:54 <Dougie187> take it into a pm...
Sep 26 18:40:07 <saraneya> benley: if you are capable, answer hagna
Sep 26 18:40:33 <hagna> uh
Sep 26 18:40:45 <saraneya> hu
Sep 26 18:40:53 <rabelais> is there an accelerometer on the G1? I have found speculation about this, but not a clear spec about it
Sep 26 18:41:11 <saraneya> rabelais: yes, compass and accelerometer
Sep 26 18:41:11 <summatusmentis> there was a video of someone showing an app that used it, so I assume so
Sep 26 18:41:17 <Cedric2> rabelais: Yes there is
Sep 26 18:41:17 <AttractiveApe> rabelais: there is, however none of the current apps utilize it..
Sep 26 18:41:30 <rabelais> thank you    :)
Sep 26 18:41:35 <saraneya> doggie jasta and ulment
Sep 26 18:41:35 <AttractiveApe> I think the compass integration is awesome.
Sep 26 18:41:41 <saraneya> get the hell out of here
Sep 26 18:41:47 <Dougie187> In the london dev day they showed it
Sep 26 18:41:53 <Dougie187> the guy wrote that app with the blue dot.
Sep 26 18:42:09 <AttractiveApe> SanMehat: could you step up, please?
Sep 26 18:42:16 <saraneya> ok doggie seem to be responding
Sep 26 18:43:06 <jasta> hehe, my brother's kids came into the office today and have shattered productivity :)
Sep 26 18:43:09 <AttractiveApe> Nevermind, I just ignored him.
Sep 26 18:43:23 <AttractiveApe> jasta: hah. Of you, or everyone?
Sep 26 18:43:25 <AttractiveApe> How old?
Sep 26 18:43:28 <Dougie187> i think thats what most people did.
Sep 26 18:43:34 <jasta> AttractiveApe: 2 and a new born
Sep 26 18:43:42 <AttractiveApe> Heh, fun.
Sep 26 18:43:45 <jasta> AttractiveApe: of everyone :)
Sep 26 18:43:47 <saraneya> kids are fun
Sep 26 18:43:54 <jasta> every girl on the second floor is over there hehe
Sep 26 18:43:59 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 26 18:44:14 <Dougie187> too bad you have a girlfriend then.
Sep 26 18:44:25 <Dougie187> snag one of them and take a walk through the park.
Sep 26 18:44:31 <jasta> no, that's not too bad.
Sep 26 18:44:33 <Dougie187> its like a puppy but 100 times better..
Sep 26 18:44:34 <jasta> trust me :)
Sep 26 18:44:42 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 26 18:44:48 <Dougie187> i guess not.
Sep 26 18:44:52 <Dougie187> you could be in my brother's boat.
Sep 26 18:44:59 <saraneya> WTF is this?
Sep 26 18:44:59 <Dougie187> he can't find a girl to save his life.
Sep 26 18:45:05 <Dougie187> but then again, its probably his own fault.
Sep 26 18:45:07 <AttractiveApe> jasta needs the current girlfriend, otherwise he'll just go to jail. :P
Sep 26 18:45:09 <saraneya> is this android channel?
Sep 26 18:45:25 <saraneya> Why the heck is jasta talking about his gf here?
Sep 26 18:45:30 <Dougie187> or move to ireland.
Sep 26 18:46:06 <saraneya> ireland?
Sep 26 18:46:13 <saraneya> no shit!@
Sep 26 18:46:29 <jasta> bbl, goin to lunch with the little ones
Sep 26 18:46:57 <saraneya> jasta: how many lunch you eat?
Sep 26 18:50:14 <saraneya> good..
Sep 26 18:50:17 <saraneya> the trolls are off
Sep 26 18:50:47 <saraneya> i'm trying to show a progress bar.. but its not visible immediately
Sep 26 18:51:25 <saraneya> only after the service returns.. the progress bar shows
Sep 26 18:51:54 <saraneya> there's this blank black screen until the service returns
Sep 26 18:51:58 <saraneya> any ideas?
Sep 26 18:54:12 <saraneya> hmmm
Sep 26 18:54:18 <saraneya> so this is the losers channel?.
Sep 26 18:54:35 <saraneya> no one knows anything about android here?
Sep 26 18:54:42 <benley> nobody but you, obviously
Sep 26 18:55:04 <saraneya> benley: can you even comprehend my problem/
Sep 26 18:55:08 <ulmen> benley: don't respond.
Sep 26 18:55:14 <saraneya> oh oh
Sep 26 18:55:23 <saraneya> ulmen: where the hell are you hiding?
Sep 26 18:55:30 <saraneya> and suddenly popup
Sep 26 18:55:31 <Cedric2> saraneya: are you posting the update on a Handler?
Sep 26 18:55:53 <saraneya> Cedric2: no, its a regular activity
Sep 26 18:56:04 <saraneya> i do the progress update oncreate
Sep 26 18:56:23 <saraneya> onresume, i bind to the service
Sep 26 18:57:04 <saraneya> it looks like the progress update thread never catches up with the main thread
Sep 26 18:58:03 <saraneya> when i start the activity.. the blank screen shows up until the service returns
Sep 26 18:58:11 <saraneya> then all the ui stuff shows up
Sep 26 18:59:25 <saraneya> i tried with a callback..
Sep 26 19:00:10 <saraneya> but the dumb blank screen always shows up until the service returns
Sep 26 19:03:13 <Cedric2> saraneya: that's why I was asking you about Handler
Sep 26 19:03:23 <Cedric2> if you're not familiar with this class, look at its doc
Sep 26 19:03:31 <saraneya> thx
Sep 26 19:03:42 <saraneya> i know romain had this usertask..
Sep 26 19:03:50 <Cedric2> you typically want to post UI updates with mHandler.post(... Runnable)
Sep 26 19:04:03 <saraneya> may be that should do the trick..
Sep 26 19:04:14 <Cedric2> Yes you can use this too, you can find it in the PhotoStream source
Sep 26 19:04:25 <saraneya> ok
Sep 26 19:04:58 <saraneya> i'm surprise oncreate doesn't draw the view immediately
Sep 26 19:05:54 <f00f-> it has to exit
Sep 26 19:06:21 <saraneya> f00f-: what? who has to exit?
Sep 26 19:07:09 <Cedric2> You want onCreate to run fast
Sep 26 19:07:21 <hagna> so when I comment out button.setOnClickListenenr(new clicker()); the program runs, but when it's uncommented it dies with "program not responding" force quit?
Sep 26 19:07:21 <Cedric2> and you want UI updates to happen exclusively on the EDT
Sep 26 19:08:32 <SanMehat> AttractiveApe: ping
Sep 26 19:08:59 <saraneya> the main thread is the EDT
Sep 26 19:09:03 <saraneya> so what's the problem?
Sep 26 19:09:31 <AttractiveApe> SanMehat: pong.
Sep 26 19:11:55 <saraneya> jasta: doggie: and uglymen
Sep 26 19:11:59 <saraneya> good night
Sep 26 19:15:56 <mpardo> can you attach contextual data to a Notify object?
Sep 26 19:16:11 <mpardo> for consumption later by an activity
Sep 26 19:17:03 <hagna> just following the simple button example is not working well.  here's the code http://rafb.net/p/qJSc0Y46.html
Sep 26 19:17:53 <mpardo> hanga: that link for me???
Sep 26 19:18:14 <hagna> mpardo: well if you want to help it is.  I didn't have an answer for you though sorry
Sep 26 19:18:23 <mpardo> ah ok
Sep 26 19:18:31 <mpardo> what do you need help with
Sep 26 19:18:42 <Cedric2> No reason this code should crash, what is the exception exactly?
Sep 26 19:18:52 <Cedric2> is button null by any chance?
Sep 26 19:18:56 <hagna> Cedric2: oh good
Sep 26 19:19:32 <mpardo> well if the resource is not in ur main.xml then yes
Sep 26 19:19:55 <Cedric2> Hence my question, it's the only thing I can think of
Sep 26 19:20:03 <Cedric2> findByViewID is not finding your button
Sep 26 19:20:26 <hagna> Cedric2: The application hell there has stopped unexpectedly. Please try again.
Sep 26 19:20:46 <hagna> eclipse autocompleted R.id.ok
Sep 26 19:20:50 <Cedric2> Yes but the logcat Yes but what does logcat say?
Sep 26 19:20:55 <Cedric2> but what*
Sep 26 19:21:17 <hagna> is that some window in my perspective?
Sep 26 19:21:42 <mpardo> you need to debug, not run
Sep 26 19:22:13 <mpardo> F11 for pc
Sep 26 19:22:22 <mpardo> command + F11 for mac
Sep 26 19:22:53 <mpardo> if you don't see log cat then add the view in eclipse
Sep 26 19:22:58 <mpardo> logcat*
Sep 26 19:24:41 <hagna> yeah I see it
Sep 26 19:25:28 <mpardo> when your app crashes scroll all the way down in the message window to see the exception
Sep 26 19:25:41 <hagna> 09-26 19:24:37.695: WARN/WindowManager(53): Continuing to wait for key to be dispatched
Sep 26 19:26:04 <hagna> argh it's like it hit a breakpoint but I don't see any
Sep 26 19:27:16 <hagna> oh ok I clicked resume twice and now it exited with the error and there is a traceback sweet
Sep 26 19:28:23 <hagna> in /data/anr/traces.txt
Sep 26 19:28:26 <mpardo> does anyone know if it's possible to attach an object to a Notify object?
Sep 26 19:29:04 <jasta> back
Sep 26 19:29:49 <hagna> Cedric2: yep NullPointerException
Sep 26 19:29:59 <mpardo> or could i extend the Notify object to allow custom fields?
Sep 26 19:30:02 <jasta> mpardo: come again?
Sep 26 19:30:06 <jasta> what Notify object?
Sep 26 19:30:33 <hagna> Cedric2: but <Button id="@+id/ok"  is in main.xml
Sep 26 19:30:33 <mpardo> i meant Notification object
Sep 26 19:30:57 <jasta> mpardo: what would you want to store in it?  Notification objects are just to describe to the manager what sort of notification you wish to have.
Sep 26 19:31:18 <mpardo> i want to have some sort of contextual menu
Sep 26 19:32:03 <mpardo> for example, if the notification was your current lat & long... you could click on the Notiifcation and then click "see on map"
Sep 26 19:32:40 <Cedric2> hagna: post your main.xml on your site
Sep 26 19:33:03 <mpardo> or it might take you directly to the map, whatever you want it to do really
Sep 26 19:33:14 <hagna> Cedric2: http://rafb.net/p/nR3q2418.html
Sep 26 19:34:48 <jasta> mpardo: i don't recommend that from an interview standpoint, but still you can use a custom view completely for this
Sep 26 19:34:53 <jasta> err, from an interface standpoint*
Sep 26 19:34:59 <Cedric2> Use android:id
Sep 26 19:35:02 <Cedric2> instead of id:
Sep 26 19:35:02 <jasta> see Notification.contentView
Sep 26 19:35:54 <SanMehat> AttractiveApe: back :)
Sep 26 19:36:03 <hagna> Cedric2: I got that xml from http://code.google.com/android/devel/ui/xml.html is it out of date?
Sep 26 19:36:08 <jasta> SanMehat: i think he was trying to get your attention to ban some troll :)
Sep 26 19:36:27 <jasta> hagna: it is, yes.  a bug should be filed, i suppose.
Sep 26 19:37:15 <SanMehat> jasta: ah, sorry i missed that - I was in meetings
Sep 26 19:37:20 <hagna> jasta: bugs.android.com
Sep 26 19:37:26 <mpardo> jasta: ok, but can i pass arguments to the view from that?
Sep 26 19:37:30 <hagna> ?
Sep 26 19:39:23 <User568> hallo
Sep 26 19:39:48 <jasta> mpardo: such as?
Sep 26 19:39:56 <mpardo> lat and long
Sep 26 19:40:07 <Cedric2> hagna: did this fix your problem?
Sep 26 19:40:08 <User568> simple question, just downloaded the newest SDK and eclispe.... runnin it on a dual amd laptop, anyone run into REALLY REALLY slow emulator?
Sep 26 19:40:37 <hagna> Cedric2: yes that did it thanks
Sep 26 19:40:41 <jasta> mpardo: well, you would just initialize the click listeners, however you raise an interesting point here.  you need to use RemoteViews, which obviously would not allow you to specify stuff like that
Sep 26 19:40:41 <mpardo> or any arguments i want
Sep 26 19:40:46 <hagna> Cedric2: now I need to file a bug
Sep 26 19:40:54 <Cedric2> hagna: I'm taking care of that
Sep 26 19:41:00 <Cedric2> Sorry for the trouble
Sep 26 19:41:04 <jasta> so it looks like you definitely could not do as you want.
Sep 26 19:41:27 <User568> anyone?
Sep 26 19:41:32 <jasta> you can merely have a single intent fired when the user clicks the notification.  no more sophistication is possible, then.  bummer.
Sep 26 19:41:34 <User568> slow emulator? anyone?
Sep 26 19:41:43 <jasta> but again, i think your UI would have been cluttered and bad here.
Sep 26 19:41:53 <Dougie187> User568: define slow
Sep 26 19:42:04 <jasta> User568: the emulator is generally very slow, but we don't really have a scale so we can't qualify your question
Sep 26 19:42:13 <User568> 3 minutes to boot up, 4 second delay on any click
Sep 26 19:42:24 <hagna> Cedric2: thanks
Sep 26 19:42:35 <Cedric2> Welcome.
Sep 26 19:42:37 <Dougie187> the boot time seems close, maybe a little long. but the 4 second delay shouldn't be there
Sep 26 19:42:39 <User568> and alot of errors tryin to load certain classes
Sep 26 19:42:43 <Cedric2> I filed a bug to have this fixed
Sep 26 19:42:54 <jasta> User568: when you upgraded, did you run -wipe-data?
Sep 26 19:42:56 <mpardo> maybe i didn't explain the UI well. For example: every 1 minute i get a notification with my current lat and long. these pile up in the notification area...
Sep 26 19:42:59 <jasta> well actually, 1.0 wouldn't matter, so nevermind
Sep 26 19:42:59 <hagna> Cedric2: does that mean the bug tracker is not public?
Sep 26 19:43:11 <mpardo> when i expand the notification area i can click on a notification
Sep 26 19:43:15 <Cedric2> Yes I filed it on our internal bug tracker, it will be fixed faster this way :)
Sep 26 19:43:15 <User568> run -wipe-date?
Sep 26 19:43:24 <mpardo> this would take my to my inteded activity
Sep 26 19:43:28 <mpardo> intended*
Sep 26 19:43:33 <mpardo> where i would then have some options
Sep 26 19:43:34 <jasta> User568: nevermind, that's an old suggestion
Sep 26 19:43:57 <User568> so then this is a known issue?
Sep 26 19:44:03 <jasta> User568: i can't say what would cause such a severe lag.  perhaps you could post your adb logcat output?
Sep 26 19:44:15 <User568> lemme see
Sep 26 19:44:21 <jasta> User568: long boot up times are generally observed, but from there the emulator is reasonably (!) responsive.
Sep 26 19:44:29 <hagna> Cedric2: hehe
Sep 26 19:44:35 <jasta> your delays are hard to qualify without seeing them first hand, however
Sep 26 19:44:49 <jasta> is your machine old?  or otherwise slow?
Sep 26 19:44:56 <User568> im gettin severly slow boot and slow response.... plus its gettin lotsa errors
Sep 26 19:45:04 <jasta> also, can you elaborate on the errors you see?
Sep 26 19:45:06 <User568> no not really. 1 yr old
Sep 26 19:45:14 <jasta> mpardo: yes, that can be done.  and btw, you should cancel old notifications so your user doesn't want to kill you
Sep 26 19:45:15 <User568> ya one sec lemme re open
Sep 26 19:45:39 <mpardo> lol yes i would kill old ones
Sep 26 19:45:54 <jasta> mpardo: the notification lets you define an intent to fire when the user clicks on yours.
Sep 26 19:45:54 <User568> sorry but im used to VS 2008 lol so this is new to me :) ..... I usually workl with C# :)
Sep 26 19:46:04 <mpardo> i have everything working so far... it takes me to the intended activity, but i need to pass some information along to that activity
Sep 26 19:46:05 <jasta> you just can't do *more* than that.
Sep 26 19:46:17 <mpardo> i'm using a PendingIntent
Sep 26 19:46:22 <jasta> mpardo: intents can carry information
Sep 26 19:46:27 <jasta> and that is what you should use.
Sep 26 19:46:31 <mpardo> woot! how
Sep 26 19:46:40 <jasta> look at the javadoc, it'll be pretty obvious i think :)
Sep 26 19:46:45 <mpardo> k
Sep 26 19:47:31 <jasta> actually, the docs are pretty bloated.  generally, you would use putExtra
Sep 26 19:47:52 <tomgibara> I asked this question earlier today, but no-one had an answer, so I'll give it another shot...
Sep 26 19:47:53 <jasta> setData is generally used for most intents, but its not generalized data, merely a Uri.
Sep 26 19:47:58 <User568> ok just opened emulator at 3:46:56
Sep 26 19:47:58 <jasta> so you'd need a Uri scheme to make sense of it.
Sep 26 19:47:59 <tomgibara> Is it safe to commit a shared preferences editor on the UI thread given that it may be performing IO?
Sep 26 19:48:24 <mpardo> k lemme take a look at the the Intent methods
Sep 26 19:48:29 <jasta> tomgibara: how could it be performing I/O simultaneously?
Sep 26 19:48:33 <hagna> Cedric2: and speaking of doc issues http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/lbs.html says you can spoof nmea and fixed location data with tools/geo, but I have no such tool in linux_x86-1.0_r1
Sep 26 19:48:52 <User568> K now its giving me the android logo
Sep 26 19:48:56 <tomgibara> What I mean is, no IO on the UI thread, that's the golden rule, so is the commit method doiing IO?
Sep 26 19:49:00 <User568> (that was almost a full minute)
Sep 26 19:49:30 <jasta> tomgibara: the rule is to not do anything that can block arbitrarily long, or unacceptably long.  network I/O is the classic example, but there is no general rule about I/O.
Sep 26 19:49:38 <User568> ok here we go.... errors
Sep 26 19:49:45 <User568> Process system is not responding
Sep 26 19:50:06 <User568> click on the menu, took almost 5 seconds to show
Sep 26 19:50:44 <tomgibara> jasta: Of course I'm simplifying, but any IO operation can in theory block for an arbitrarily long time
Sep 26 19:50:58 <jeffb> run top from the terminal to see what's taking up the resources
Sep 26 19:51:15 <jasta> tomgibara: any operation period can block for an arbitrarily long time.
Sep 26 19:51:20 <User568> jeff talkin to me?
Sep 26 19:51:25 <tomgibara> jasta: er, no
Sep 26 19:51:31 <jeffb> yes
Sep 26 19:51:37 <jasta> tomgibara: er, yes.
Sep 26 19:51:57 <User568> jeff where do I do that?
Sep 26 19:52:12 <jeffb> adb shell
Sep 26 19:52:27 <jasta> floating point math for example is terribly slow on most mobile processors.  that doesn't mean you should have a general rule constructed to defer it from the main thread.
Sep 26 19:52:28 <mpardo> sweet i just watched a chimp pepper sprayed
Sep 26 19:52:36 <User568> im lookin at the logcat and seeing a lot of system tags
Sep 26 19:52:45 <User568> ailure Starting core services
Sep 26 19:52:51 <jasta> tomgibara: also, do realize that the Linux kernel isn't going to sync the writes to disk before returning to the caller.
Sep 26 19:52:54 <User568> Failure Starting StatusBar
Sep 26 19:53:02 <jasta> it's almost certainly going to internally buffer this very small amount of data
Sep 26 19:53:14 <User568> No Kernel log File
Sep 26 19:53:31 <jasta> and i think you'd be sane to rely on that for small writes.
Sep 26 19:53:45 <User568> Android runtime thread failed
Sep 26 19:54:01 <jeffb> did you run the restore cd?
Sep 26 19:54:04 <jasta> User568: i don't know.  your best bet would be to run adb bugreport and post the results to the android issue list.
Sep 26 19:54:22 <User568> i think its starting to work now
Sep 26 19:54:23 <jeffb> did you unplug it from everything, wait 30 seconds, and plug it back in?
Sep 26 19:54:47 <User568> now the lag between button presses is like 2 seconds
Sep 26 19:54:53 <tomgibara> jasta: How can you say that any operation can block? incrementing an integer??
Sep 26 19:55:21 <User568> ya seems to be working now... just really slowly
Sep 26 19:55:24 <User568> wow
Sep 26 19:55:32 <jasta> because of the definition of arbitrary.  the processor will take longer to do certain operations than others, and you don't immediately know how long.  i was being intentionally obtuse.
Sep 26 19:55:37 <User568> what a difference between my laptop any work box
Sep 26 19:55:56 <jasta> tomgibara: but that wasn't the main point i was trying to make, just a quip at you.
Sep 26 19:56:03 <jasta> sorry :)
Sep 26 19:56:41 <User568> thanks guys
Sep 26 19:56:54 <jasta> i would think it unreasonable to construct a general rule that I/O should happen outside the main thread, as you will micromanage yourself into a condition where the overhead of object creation, thread scheduling, etc will outweigh your very trivial buffered writes to local media
Sep 26 19:56:59 <tomgibara> jasta: Fair enough, I'll take your point about the operation of the Linux Kernel though - I just wanted to be sure
Sep 26 19:57:43 <jasta> tomgibara: but this is the challenge of the developer of course: you need to look at the scope of what you're doing and judge for yourself.  generally you can assume small writes to local media will not occupy unreasonable time.
Sep 26 19:57:58 <User568> heh eclipse checks spelling of string literals?
Sep 26 19:58:02 <User568> funny
Sep 26 19:58:18 <jasta> of course it is a good idea to make a general rule about network I/O.
Sep 26 19:58:34 <tomgibara> jasta: yes, I'm just not confident of developing on mobile devices, I don't have the intuition I do in other contexts
Sep 26 19:58:57 <jasta> the intuition remains the same, really.  in fact, write performance to storage should be quite good.
Sep 26 19:59:15 <jasta> better even than movable hard drives in some cases
Sep 26 19:59:56 <jasta> still, your head is in the right area to question performance, i just think in this particular case of small writes to lcoal media, you shouldn't bother with the details too much.
Sep 26 20:00:07 <jasta> the overhead of the alternative will defeat any reasonable advantages you'd get.
Sep 26 20:00:44 <jasta> especially for a system that is anything but imaginary: we know the kernel and the media type, and we know that both will behave quite well in this case.
Sep 26 20:01:36 <tomgibara> jasta: did you mean that write performance is better than movable drives relative to the processing speed, or absolutely?
Sep 26 20:02:06 <tomgibara> *may be better
Sep 26 20:03:40 <mpardo> jasta: is there documentation on how to correctly form my Uri to be passed with the intent?
Sep 26 20:03:52 <jasta> i mean that solid state storage drives typically beat hard drive seek times, which can improve the write performance drastically in certain cases.
Sep 26 20:04:31 <jasta> mpardo: you don't necessarily have to use a data Uri, but the general rule is new Uri("content://your.package.space/whatever-the-hell-you-want");
Sep 26 20:04:44 <jasta> for your simple case of passing lat/long, there may be an existing content uri you can use/parse, like a geo uri
Sep 26 20:04:54 <jasta> or you can just use putExtra("lat", ...); and pull that out on the other side
Sep 26 20:05:09 <jasta> quite a few options here, depending on how generalized you want to get
Sep 26 20:05:52 <jasta> there is a geo intent actually, but keep in mind that intents are meant to loosely bind to a particular activity
Sep 26 20:06:07 <jasta> so normally, an intent fired at geo:<lat>,<long> will open google maps.
Sep 26 20:06:38 <jasta> but Intents are very flexible, you can set the "data" (the uri) to whatever you want and specifically set the class that the intent will bind to.
Sep 26 20:07:29 <jasta> the simplest solution would be to just use putExtra, the most flexible would be to define a proper intent-filter and use the geo uri scheme and then just differentiate however it makes sense for your app
Sep 26 20:07:33 <jasta> thats a pretty sophisticated topic though :)
Sep 26 20:15:08 <phocus> hey guys, i have a guy here who got android running on my  ppc 6900 phone, it was looking nice with the desktop that i saw in the G1 demo. but then the 1.0 sdk came out, he moved to it, and now i have the old desktop again with the "all programs button" on the right.  how do i change what the interface looks like, i want the desktop back
Sep 26 20:24:15 <plusminus_> anyone knows on which TV-channel the presidential debate will be on tonight ??
Sep 26 20:24:53 <Versed> probably all of them
Sep 26 20:25:23 <jasta> plusminus_: youtube.
Sep 26 20:25:24 <jasta> :)
Sep 26 20:27:02 <benley> live streaming on youtube?
Sep 26 20:27:27 <plusminus_> jasta: they do ?
Sep 26 20:27:38 <plusminus_> what time(+zone) ?
Sep 26 20:28:04 <plusminus_> i've heard something of 8pm but no idea what tiemzone
Sep 26 20:28:23 <jasta> probably not life streaming, but who cares.  im sure itll be up there at some point soon :)
Sep 26 20:35:17 <hagna> can I get an ACK?  speaking of doc issues http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/lbs.html says you can spoof nmea and fixed location data with tools/geo, but I have no such tool in linux_x86-1.0_r1
Sep 26 20:37:01 <xavd> geo is a command of the emulator console
Sep 26 20:37:16 <xavd> in the title bar of the emulator there's a port number (usually 5554).
Sep 26 20:37:25 <xavd> telnet to that port (telnet localhost 5554)
Sep 26 20:37:29 <xavd> then type help
Sep 26 20:38:11 <hagna> xavd: oh ok thanks
Sep 26 20:57:14 <hagna> xavd: using geo it only ever follows my new location once do you know why?
Sep 26 20:58:46 <chouman82> hey plusminus are you still there?
Sep 26 20:59:26 <chouman82> having problem starting registering a broadcastReceiver
Sep 26 21:00:00 <chouman82> anyone has a clue about the BroadcastReceiver?
Sep 26 21:00:14 <tomgibara> chouman82: some clues
Sep 26 21:00:52 <chouman82> so in my manifest i added the receiver tag
Sep 26 21:00:59 <chouman82> with an intent-filter
Sep 26 21:01:17 <chouman82> that has the action android.intent.action.BOOT_COMPLETED
Sep 26 21:01:40 <chouman82> and then i have a StartServicesAtStartUp extends BroadcastReceiver
Sep 26 21:01:50 <chouman82> and some system.out statment in there
Sep 26 21:01:55 <chouman82> but it's never printed out
Sep 26 21:01:58 <tomgibara> okay, I can see where this going
Sep 26 21:01:58 <chouman82> when i load the app
Sep 26 21:02:01 <jasta> system.out traditionally was not printed, btw.
Sep 26 21:02:05 <jasta> use Log.d()
Sep 26 21:02:23 <jasta> but it now has stdout connected to the log, but still :)
Sep 26 21:02:23 <chouman82> even in logcat it's not printed out?
Sep 26 21:02:24 <tomgibara> You need a permission to receive BOOT_COMPLETED
Sep 26 21:02:32 <fadden> It shows up under the System.out tag now.
Sep 26 21:02:52 <chouman82> i added android.permission.RECEIVE_BOOT_COMPLETED
Sep 26 21:02:53 <jasta> fadden: yeah i know, its just still not a good way to do debugging :)
Sep 26 21:03:13 <chouman82> but still see nothing
Sep 26 21:03:41 <tomgibara> silly question, did you reboot the emulator?
Sep 26 21:04:10 <chouman82> umm would that be the same as just reloading the app?
Sep 26 21:04:16 <tomgibara> no :)
Sep 26 21:04:16 <chouman82> from eclipse
Sep 26 21:04:29 <chouman82> how can i reboot from adb?
Sep 26 21:04:44 <tomgibara> The only thing I know to do is close the emulator and restart it
Sep 26 21:05:20 <tomgibara> The only boot code I wrote worked first time, so I've never needed to investigate further
Sep 26 21:05:30 <chouman82> i see
Sep 26 21:05:53 <chouman82> ok well let me try to restart it
Sep 26 21:06:59 <Terdhex> does anyone know how to modify th file init.rc?
Sep 26 21:07:21 <jasta> Terdhex: modify the system image, then boot the emulator
Sep 26 21:07:59 <Terdhex> where in the system image can I find init.rc
Sep 26 21:09:20 <jasta> tools/lib/images/system.img
Sep 26 21:09:31 <jasta> err, thats not what you asked :)
Sep 26 21:09:48 <jasta> init on android is /system/init, iirc.
Sep 26 21:09:55 <Terdhex> ok. cool
Sep 26 21:10:01 <Terdhex> thanks
Sep 26 21:10:01 <jasta> just open it up and look.  you'll find it.
Sep 26 21:10:04 <Terdhex> let me do that
Sep 26 21:14:51 <chouman82> msg tomgibara still don't see my logging statements
Sep 26 21:14:57 <chouman82> ooops
Sep 26 21:15:31 <tomgibara> did you select the emulator within the DDMS perspective?
Sep 26 21:22:27 <chouman82> yup
Sep 26 21:23:39 <tomgibara> chouman82: Then I don't have any more suggestions
Sep 26 21:30:22 <mpardo> what's the maps intent?
Sep 26 21:30:54 <mpardo> jasta: you probably know
Sep 26 21:34:14 <jasta> what do you mean by "maps intent"?
Sep 26 21:34:34 <mpardo> i want to start the google map activity
Sep 26 21:34:45 <mpardo> and send it an address to lookup
Sep 26 21:35:12 <jasta> http://code.google.com/android/reference/available-intents.html
Sep 26 21:35:13 <jasta> see geo
Sep 26 21:35:16 <mpardo> k thx
Sep 26 21:35:55 <wastrel> so the g1 doesn't have an accelerometer like the iphone is that correct?
Sep 26 21:36:12 <monteslu> id does
Sep 26 21:36:20 <monteslu> didn't you see larry tossing it up in the air?
Sep 26 21:36:23 <wastrel> no
Sep 26 21:36:26 <wastrel> ok good to know
Sep 26 21:36:34 <wastrel> so we'll get some lighter apps for it eh
Sep 26 21:36:43 <monteslu> look at the video on the g1 site
Sep 26 21:36:51 <monteslu> that demo is near the end
Sep 26 21:48:24 <Terdhex> Does anybody know how the mechanics of the certificates is going to work with google?
Sep 26 21:48:35 <Terdhex> who certifies the APK's? is there an authority?
Sep 26 21:49:45 <jasta> no idea, although it has been said that self-signed APKs can be loaded freely onto a device
Sep 26 21:50:02 <jasta> so id gues that signing will be done officially by google for apps on the market
Sep 26 21:50:44 <Biren2> sd
Sep 26 21:51:26 <Bfxp> hello
Sep 26 21:53:14 <Terdhex> Hi there
Sep 26 21:53:27 <Bfxp> cool
Sep 26 21:53:32 <Terdhex> or private
Sep 26 22:01:31 <hagna> http://code.google.com/android/samples/ApiDemos/src/com/example/android/apis/view/ImageButton1.html any chance of seeing the layout file for that?
Sep 26 22:02:04 <Cedric2> I can find it in ApiDemos
Sep 26 22:02:13 <hagna> Cedric2: lucky
Sep 26 22:02:37 <xavd> look in <sdk>/samples/ApiDemos/res/layout/image_button_1.xml
Sep 26 22:02:45 <hagna> oh ah I see it
Sep 26 22:02:49 <hagna> thanks
Sep 26 22:03:18 <hagna> also on that geo command it only follows my new fixed coordinate once is that normal behavior?
Sep 26 22:05:18 <xavd> Did you create a location listener? (I don't really know that API so I'm not sure)
Sep 26 22:05:41 <hagna> xavd: this happens in google maps not my app
Sep 26 22:05:47 <hagna> or panoramio
Sep 26 22:06:05 <xavd> then I'd say it's not normal
Sep 26 22:06:24 <hagna> ok then I'm doing this
Sep 26 22:06:34 <hagna> open emulator telnet to the shell
Sep 26 22:06:42 <hagna> geo fix 23 -123.34
Sep 26 22:06:46 <hagna> observe it moves
Sep 26 22:06:51 <hagna> geo fix 24 24
Sep 26 22:06:54 <hagna> observe it does not move
Sep 26 22:07:06 <hagna> s/it/blue dot/
Sep 26 22:07:06 <infobot> hagna meant: observe blue dot does not move
Sep 26 22:07:15 <xavd> let me try
Sep 26 22:07:22 <hagna> thanks
Sep 26 22:08:35 <hagna> ahhh curses it's working
Sep 26 22:09:05 <hagna> well it wasn't working before
Sep 26 22:11:24 <hagna> xavd: huh it works in panoramio too
Sep 26 22:11:36 <hagna> there's a bug in my steps to dup
Sep 26 22:12:46 <xavd> hmm
Sep 26 22:14:42 <xavd> oh, "geo fix 23 -123" is not going to work because its longitude first
Sep 26 22:14:54 <xavd> it seems giving -123 as a latitude breaks things
Sep 26 22:15:45 <hagna> huh ok
Sep 26 22:22:58 <chouman82> i am having some problem using the callstatelistener
Sep 26 22:23:02 <chouman82> i meant
Sep 26 22:23:03 <chouman82> sorry
Sep 26 22:23:08 <chouman82> PhoneStateListener
Sep 26 22:23:32 <chouman82> anyone worked with that before?
Sep 26 22:26:27 <kingkung> hey guys
Sep 26 22:26:31 <kingkung> is anyone there?
Sep 26 22:26:33 <kingkung> had a quick question
Sep 26 22:29:28 <plusminus_> http://picpaste.com/osm_firsttile_success.png
Sep 26 22:30:03 <plusminus_> avaibale and open source soon
Sep 26 22:30:23 <plusminus_> http://picpaste.com/thumbs/osm_firsttile_success.1222468155.png
Sep 26 22:30:43 <jasta> kingkung: just ask
Sep 26 22:32:17 <chouman82> i am having a little problem with the onCallStateChanged in PhoneStateListener
Sep 26 22:32:29 <chouman82> i extended the PhoneStateListener
Sep 26 22:32:35 <chouman82> and then overwrite the onCallStateChanged
Sep 26 22:32:42 <chouman82> and have some logging statement in there
Sep 26 22:33:02 <kingkung> hey guys
Sep 26 22:33:03 <chouman82> but they never show up when i use telnet to emulate a call to the emulator
Sep 26 22:33:19 <kingkung> it looks like they put the sms/mms storage into a database
Sep 26 22:33:22 <kingkung> smsmms.db
Sep 26 22:33:34 <kingkung> com.android.providers.db
Sep 26 22:33:53 <kingkung> instead of in a content provider, where it was in 0.9
Sep 26 22:34:17 <kingkung> how do i access a .db file... just type in the path name into openOrCreateDatabase()?
Sep 26 22:35:32 <jasta> kingkung: you almost certainly do not have access to that database
Sep 26 22:35:45 <jasta> (android uses unix permissions a lot to isolate applications from each other)
Sep 26 22:36:02 <kingkung> so that data is now private??
Sep 26 22:36:18 <jasta> i dont know what they did with the SMS inbox in 1.0 though.  you'll want to ask on the groups
Sep 26 22:36:29 <kingkung> i already did
Sep 26 22:36:47 <kingkung> that's the response that i got (the smsmms.db file)
Sep 26 22:37:34 <kingkung> why is android turning into j2me
Sep 26 22:39:30 <jasta> uhh, hardly
Sep 26 22:39:42 <jasta> google's having a little growing pains as it branches out into a type of project never handled by the company before
Sep 26 22:39:47 <jasta> but it's hardly a j2me
Sep 26 22:40:21 <jasta> they are backpedaling a lot of features as they near their deadline, but that's not to say they won't appear in sooner-than-you-think future versions
Sep 26 22:43:06 <kingkung> i've seen no documentation nor release notes about this issue, nor in the APIDiffs
Sep 26 22:44:03 <kingkung> how did they go from completely open platform to not being able to access SMSs?
Sep 26 22:44:27 <kingkung> isn't that like basic functionality for mobile phones?
Sep 26 22:48:07 <kingkung> i know winmo allows you to do that
Sep 26 22:50:05 <jasta> there's a lot of things i'd call "basic" that they missed.
Sep 26 22:50:15 <jasta> but again, i do think you're overreacting some :)
Sep 26 22:50:24 <jasta> here's for 1.1
Sep 26 22:55:31 <chouman82> hey jasta, have you worked with phoneStateListener
Sep 26 22:55:32 <chouman82> ?
Sep 26 23:06:12 <chouman82> anyone has worked on PhoneStateListener?
Sep 26 23:07:30 <f00f-> once long ago chouman82
Sep 26 23:08:14 <f00f-> here's a basic one that'll work best on actual devices:
Sep 26 23:08:20 <f00f-> protected PhoneStateListener psl = new PhoneStateListener() {
Sep 26 23:08:20 <f00f->     @Override
Sep 26 23:08:20 <f00f->     public void onCellLocationChanged(CellLocation location) {
Sep 26 23:08:20 <f00f->       super.onCellLocationChanged(location);
Sep 26 23:08:20 <f00f->     }
Sep 26 23:08:22 <f00f->   };
Sep 26 23:08:59 <f00f-> i miss android coding
Sep 26 23:17:33 <chouman82> ummm what about onCallStateChanged?
Sep 26 23:18:05 <chouman82> i can't get it to work right
Sep 26 23:18:05 <chouman82> i overwrite it
Sep 26 23:18:05 <chouman82> and entered some logging statemtn
Sep 26 23:18:05 <chouman82> but nothing is been printed
Sep 26 23:19:13 <f00f-> do you have the permission
Sep 26 23:19:31 <f00f-> although i don't know if permissions are checked like that
Sep 26 23:19:58 <f00f-> a la ACCESS_NETWORK_STATE
Sep 26 23:20:02 <f00f-> but for ^^
Sep 26 23:22:36 <chouman82> yea it's kinda weird
Sep 26 23:29:56 <jasta> yawn
Sep 26 23:34:30 <jasta> chouman82: call state changes look like they are for outgoing call monitoring
Sep 26 23:34:32 <jasta> not incoming calls
Sep 26 23:34:51 <jasta> (sorry if that's off topic, i only briefly glanced at the backlog)
Sep 26 23:47:27 <chouman82> oh reall?
Sep 26 23:47:40 <chouman82> no it's not off topic at all
Sep 26 23:47:45 <jasta> well yes, look at the possible changes it can undergo.  what do those tell you?
Sep 26 23:47:49 <chouman82> i am looking to get both incoming and out going call
Sep 26 23:48:18 <jasta> incoming call would be a broadcast intent, i'd bet.
Sep 26 23:48:21 <chouman82> well from the logcat, i see that both when u pick up an incoming phone call or make an outgoing phone call
Sep 26 23:48:31 <ttuttle> Ooh, ooh, I know!
Sep 26 23:48:38 <jasta> well, it was just a guess.  i haven't attempted what you're doing yet.
Sep 26 23:48:46 <ttuttle> For outgoing calls, catch the OUTGOING_CALL broadcast intent.
Sep 26 23:48:49 <chouman82> i see the emulator prints out call state ringing
Sep 26 23:48:58 <ttuttle> Or maybe it's NEW_OUTGOING_CALL.
Sep 26 23:49:07 <chouman82> wat about incoming?
Sep 26 23:49:21 <chouman82> i thought we can just use the onCallStateChanged in PhoneStateListener
Sep 26 23:49:46 <chouman82> because in there there are 3 states (CALL_STATE_IDLE, CALL_STATE_OFFHOOK, CALL_SATE_RINGING)
Sep 26 23:50:18 <chouman82> and i see that CALL_STATE_OFFHOOK "supposedly called" both when answer incoming or making outgoing call
Sep 26 23:50:23 <chouman82> at least that's wat i see from logcat
Sep 26 23:53:54 <chouman82> wat's the url thats used to paste code?
Sep 26 23:55:06 <ttuttle> pastebin.com
Sep 26 23:55:06 <jasta> pastebin?
Sep 26 23:55:08 <ttuttle> or dpaste.com
Sep 26 23:55:14 <chouman82> pastebin
Sep 26 23:55:15 <chouman82> thanks
Sep 26 23:55:17 <chouman82> alright hold on
Sep 26 23:59:21 <chouman82> http://pastebin.com/m5a821fff
Sep 26 23:59:29 <chouman82> that's the log that i gor from logcat
Sep 27 00:00:07 <chouman82> so on line 8 it identifies it as an incoming call
Sep 27 00:01:27 <chouman82> actually sorry go down to line 144
Sep 27 00:01:41 <chouman82> there it identifies the state as incoming
Sep 27 00:02:22 <chouman82> and then on line 215 u can see taht onPhoneStateChagned()
Sep 27 00:02:50 <chouman82> and then again on line 233 you see that onPhoneStateChanged: OFF HOOK
Sep 27 00:03:47 <chouman82> but then yea i dont' see my code been called
Sep 27 00:05:58 <jasta> have you checked on the groups?
Sep 27 00:06:08 <jasta> i cant actually spend the time to dive into this too deeply
Sep 27 00:07:38 <umdk1d3> mmmmm
Sep 27 00:07:54 <jasta> whats up?
Sep 27 00:08:01 <umdk1d3> wherez teh f00g?
Sep 27 00:08:03 <umdk1d3> *FOOF
Sep 27 00:08:19 <chouman82> yea i checked on the group also posted something on there
Sep 27 00:08:26 <jasta> chouman82: no one responded?
Sep 27 00:08:27 <chouman82> but just wanted to see if anyone would know here
Sep 27 00:08:34 <chouman82> kinda stuck at this point
Sep 27 00:08:36 <chouman82> not yet
Sep 27 00:08:44 <jasta> hmm, dont know what to tell you :)
Sep 27 00:08:58 <chouman82> o well guess i'll just have to sit on my hands for now
Sep 27 00:19:31 <jasta> lol, for 1.0 they stubbed out android.jar so it contains none of the actual code ;)
Sep 27 00:19:59 <jasta> i guess that would at least reduce the SDK download size, but that sucks now because 1.0 is the only release we can't decompile :)
Sep 27 00:20:10 <ttuttle> jasta: heh
Sep 27 00:20:22 <ttuttle> jasta: I sat next to a guy who worked on generating the stubs file.
Sep 27 00:20:28 <ttuttle> jasta: And yeah, it was for size.
Sep 27 00:21:01 <jasta> ttuttle: hey, do you know what test class i should extend to implement a MediaPlayer test?  do i even need an android context here?
Sep 27 00:21:13 <ttuttle> jasta: Nah, never worked on MediaPlayer.
Sep 27 00:21:33 <jasta> i was thinking AndroidTestCase, but then I don't think the MediaPlayer needs a context to operate.
Sep 27 00:21:48 <jasta> oh wait, yes it does, it connects to a service.
Sep 27 00:21:57 <ttuttle> jasta: Yeah.
Sep 27 00:23:18 * jasta scratches his head
Sep 27 00:23:21 <jasta> hmm, how to set up this test
Sep 27 00:25:02 <jasta> maybe i should use applicationtestcase
Sep 27 00:26:12 <jasta> no, that cant be right
Sep 27 00:27:15 <Dougie187> hows it going jasta?
Sep 27 00:27:29 <jasta> good, working on my StreamMediaPlayer implementation
Sep 27 00:27:39 <Dougie187> nice
Sep 27 00:27:41 <Dougie187> sounds like fun
Sep 27 00:27:44 <jasta> its not
Sep 27 00:28:01 <jasta> its really, really complicated actually hehe
Sep 27 00:29:45 <Dougie187> thats too bad
Sep 27 00:29:50 <Dougie187> complicated always takes a lot of time
Sep 27 00:30:21 <jasta> i'm overcomplicating it, i guess.  i'm trying for a strategy that is reasonably efficient, which maybe isnt smart when youre designing a hack
Sep 27 00:30:51 <jasta> but at the same time i already know that performance is critical in this area, so i have no choice if i want to use the code to get a good sense of practical bottlenecks for five
Sep 27 00:31:17 <illuminum> together with my mobile android phone in hand and my jetpack fixed wing set i will be FUTAR MAN
Sep 27 00:31:26 <SanMehat> lol
Sep 27 00:38:16 <Dougie187> SanMehat: do you get a lot more stupid questions then you did prior to the announcement on tuesday?
Sep 27 00:38:24 <Dougie187> (aside from that last one)
Sep 27 00:39:07 <illuminum> arrogant people suck
Sep 27 00:39:11 <illuminum> arrogant people should use windows
Sep 27 00:39:13 <illuminum> or mac
Sep 27 00:39:18 <illuminum> and stay away from linux
Sep 27 00:39:19 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 27 00:39:36 <Dougie187> true dat
Sep 27 00:54:03 <mpardo> jmcw: wat up
Sep 27 00:58:18 <mpardo> android question: how do i kill a listener?
Sep 27 00:58:23 <mpardo> listener = null?
Sep 27 01:02:25 <monteslu> mpardo, that does'nt sound right and I know very little abou the sdk :)
Sep 27 01:02:30 <mpardo> jasta: i instantiated a listener inside a service. when i stop the service the listener is not destroyed. how do i destroy it?
Sep 27 01:02:44 <monteslu> is there no unregister method?
Sep 27 01:02:49 <mpardo> nope
Sep 27 01:03:24 <monteslu> setting anything = null in java just kill that reference, the object is still around if anything else has a handle on it
Sep 27 01:03:31 <mpardo> ah
Sep 27 01:03:47 <monteslu> garbage collection picks up when nothing else has a reference
Sep 27 01:04:00 <monteslu> so there has to be some way to remove the listener
Sep 27 01:04:25 <mpardo> the listener lives inside the service
Sep 27 01:04:33 <monteslu> was the listener anonymous?
Sep 27 01:04:35 <mpardo> when i destroy the service shouldn't the listener stop?
Sep 27 01:04:51 <monteslu> not sure, I'm new too :)
Sep 27 01:04:57 <mpardo> k
Sep 27 01:05:03 <monteslu> but I've been doing regular java for a long time
Sep 27 01:05:43 <mpardo> do you write in C# too?
Sep 27 01:14:12 <mpardo> nvm i figured it out
Sep 27 01:15:30 <SanMehat> Dougie187: Lot more questions.. not necessarily stupid ones :)
Sep 27 01:19:38 <illuminum> i want to make an opensource hentai game platform for android that runs off user created story-plugins
Sep 27 01:19:42 <illuminum> does that sound awesome or what
Sep 27 01:19:49 <mpardo> no
Sep 27 01:19:51 <illuminum> people can role play hentai games in the bathroom and wank
Sep 27 01:19:55 <illuminum> on their android phones
Sep 27 01:23:08 <illuminum> is there a such thing as open collaboration i.e. like wiki-style where essentially everyone would have commit access
Sep 27 01:23:15 <illuminum> has such a thing ever been successful?
Sep 27 01:23:45 <illuminum> i guess the decentralized nature of git addresses that need without risking anything
Sep 27 01:24:28 <illuminum> but for an opensource platform to be successful it needs centralization at some level to facilitate a common ground for collaboration yes?
Sep 27 01:24:33 <illuminum> hontoni? ne?
Sep 27 01:43:41 <Adamant> illuminum: obvious problems are embedding "rm -rf" equivalents and such in the code
Sep 27 01:44:05 <Adamant> basically the whole class of purposedly created security bugs, some of which can be quite subtle
Sep 27 01:45:02 <Adamant> with maintainers, you don't have anyone to sue anymore than with proprietary software, but you do have someone to blame for not seeing it
Sep 27 01:46:35 <Adamant> it's already been tried in the current environment - there was an attempt to add an intentional but somewhat subtle bug to the Linux kernel that would be useful for security breaking, it was caught by maintainers.
Sep 27 01:47:15 <Adamant> of course that's no guarantee of anything.
Sep 27 02:01:48 <dcode> good evening, all
Sep 27 02:02:34 <dcode> I'm porting someone else's code to the 1.0 r1 API.  I've resolved the compilation issues, but upon startup I get an exception thrown
Sep 27 02:02:41 <dcode> the message I get is: "System services not available to Activities before onCreate()"
Sep 27 02:02:58 <cbeust_> You're probably doing this in a constructor
Sep 27 02:03:25 <dcode> now...the only thing that happens before OnCreate...AFAIK is I have the following in the class definition:
Sep 27 02:03:26 <dcode> private ProgressDialog activeProgress = new ProgressDialog(this);
Sep 27 02:03:40 <cbeust_> Yup, move this to onCreate()
Sep 27 02:03:41 <dcode> is a ProgressDialog considered a System Service?
Sep 27 02:03:45 <dcode> cool
Sep 27 02:04:22 <dcode> it's been a long time since I've coded Java (been mostly doing C/C++ last couple of years) and I'm learning the Android API...it's fun...but I run into quirks like this and get confused
Sep 27 02:04:35 <cbeust_> Understandable
Sep 27 02:05:53 <dcode> thanks cbeust_
Sep 27 02:06:04 <cbeust_> You can call me Cedric :)
Sep 27 02:08:32 <dcode> Cedric3: so are you an Android developer?
Sep 27 02:08:37 <dcode> core dev?
Sep 27 02:08:49 <Cedric3> Yup
Sep 27 02:08:52 <dcode> sweet
Sep 27 02:09:05 <dcode> I preordered a G1 last week
Sep 27 02:09:08 <dcode> I'm pretty stoked
Sep 27 02:09:13 <Cedric3> Fantastic
Sep 27 02:09:17 <wastrel> is there a lighter app yet?
Sep 27 02:09:25 <illuminum> me 2 me 2
Sep 27 02:09:29 <dcode> :D
Sep 27 02:09:34 <Cedric3> No but we're secretly working on a fart application
Sep 27 02:09:50 <illuminum> lol those are the kind of apps that make it into crapple's crapstore
Sep 27 02:09:51 <Cedric3> Oops no longer secret I guess
Sep 27 02:10:46 <SanMehat> haha
Sep 27 02:11:17 <dcode> what diaglog/mechanism would one use to give an error alert?
Sep 27 02:11:22 <dcode> like a network timeout or such
Sep 27 02:12:10 <dcode> nevermind
Sep 27 02:13:27 <dcode> did AlertDialog replace showAlert( string, int, string, string, bool)?
Sep 27 02:19:15 <illuminum> hey sanmehat
Sep 27 02:19:19 <illuminum> you work at google right
Sep 27 02:19:58 <illuminum> does chromium have a linux devel following yet?
Sep 27 02:30:58 <Dougie187> illuminum: http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/waterfall/
Sep 27 02:31:41 <Dougie187> not sure if that helps any.
Sep 27 02:31:45 <Dougie187> but thats all i got
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 27 02:59:57 2008