**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 02 02:59:57 2008
Oct 02 03:13:29 <morrildl> ahh much better
Oct 02 03:13:35 <morrildl> high contrast dark motif ftw
Oct 02 03:21:35 <rwhitby> morrildl: when is this phone going to be released? http://www.techchee.com/tmp/Google%20Android%20Prototype%20181207.jpg
Oct 02 03:25:47 <morrildl> rwhitby: what, the device?
Oct 02 03:26:09 <morrildl> rwhitby: that device is a very early prototype that we used to develop the software framework
Oct 02 03:26:18 <rwhitby> where can I buy one? ;-)
Oct 02 03:26:31 <rwhitby> it's my favourite form factor for a phone
Oct 02 03:26:56 <morrildl> rwhitby: we called that thing the Sooner.  It's not goign to be productized
Oct 02 03:27:29 <rwhitby> hmm - not a good name for googling :-)
Oct 02 03:27:40 <morrildl> There is a significant contingent we refer to as the "Sooner Appreciation Society" that mourns its demise
Oct 02 03:27:42 <illuminum> i'd like a motorola razer that flips out into two identical touchscreens
Oct 02 03:27:46 <morrildl> but it is indeed defunct
Oct 02 03:28:02 <morrildl> I am a member of the society so I feel your pain. :)
Oct 02 03:28:33 <rwhitby> morrildl: I'm hoping another OHA member will productise a device in the same form factor.  Then I might be able to wean myself off my Treo650.
Oct 02 03:29:13 <morrildl> rwhitby: Indeed, another Alliance member might do so, who knows
Oct 02 03:29:26 <morrildl> ...or, once source drops, even some other manufacturer who is not a member of the Alliance
Oct 02 03:29:54 <morrildl> but that particular device was really not even a prototype, it was just development hardware
Oct 02 03:30:47 <rwhitby> I'm getting a second development Treo650, just in case when the source drops there is a chance to run on that.
Oct 02 03:31:11 <morrildl> rwhitby: I know nothing of the specs of the Treos so I couldn't say
Oct 02 03:32:38 <wastrel> are treo's arm?
Oct 02 03:32:45 <wastrel> i have a t|x
Oct 02 03:34:03 <wastrel> i hate that small square screen
Oct 02 03:34:11 <wastrel> lurving the g1
Oct 02 03:34:33 <morrildl> wastrel: the G1 is extremely nice to use.
Oct 02 03:34:38 <rwhitby> morrildl: PXA270, 32M DoC rom, 32MB ram, 320x320 screen, BCM2132 baseband.
Oct 02 03:34:41 <morrildl> wastrel: I won't argue that it's "pretty"
Oct 02 03:34:52 <morrildl> rwhitby: that is probably insufficient RAM
Oct 02 03:34:58 <morrildl> at least, for the whole UI
Oct 02 03:35:09 <morrildl> OTOH the screen is smaller which will help I guess
Oct 02 03:35:42 <rwhitby> morrildl: so does the G1 go down well with the S.A.S ?
Oct 02 03:36:00 <morrildl> rwhitby: I don't really know what you mean
Oct 02 03:36:04 <morrildl> do you mean software as a service?
Oct 02 03:36:08 <rwhitby> (Sooner Appreciation Society)
Oct 02 03:36:11 <morrildl> ahhh
Oct 02 03:36:21 <wastrel> i don't care about pretty i care about screen real estate
Oct 02 03:36:26 <wastrel> and the bigass keyboard doesn't hurt
Oct 02 03:36:46 <rwhitby> i.e. is it a worthy successor to the Sooner?
Oct 02 03:36:52 <morrildl> rwhitby: it plays well, although many of us still long for the Sooner anyway
Oct 02 03:36:56 <morrildl> functionally yes
Oct 02 03:37:23 <wastrel> well i'm ditching palm after close to 10 years
Oct 02 03:37:40 <wastrel> oy really 10 years i am old
Oct 02 03:37:59 <rwhitby> wastrel: over 10 years here ...
Oct 02 03:38:14 <rwhitby> and the Treo650 is still going strong.
Oct 02 03:38:47 <morrildl> but even though I love teh Sooner I have to admit the G1 is a lot more usable really
Oct 02 03:39:28 <rwhitby> morrildl: which phone do you carry?
Oct 02 03:39:37 <morrildl> rwhitby: G1
Oct 02 03:41:22 <wastrel> so did sergey actually throw the phone at the launch event?
Oct 02 03:41:28 <wastrel> or just talk about the app
Oct 02 03:41:35 <morrildl> wastrel: I don't know I was downstairs :P
Oct 02 03:41:42 <morrildl> no one told me they were coming so I missed the whole thing
Oct 02 03:41:50 <morrildl> I came up like 30 seconds after they took off
Oct 02 03:42:07 <wastrel> maybe if you'd been wearing roller blades you could have caught them
Oct 02 03:42:23 <morrildl> wastrel: I can't rollerblade, I would just end up dead
Oct 02 03:42:33 * benley can't keep up with larry on rollerblades
Oct 02 03:43:04 <wastrel> i've never rollerbladed but i can ice skate
Oct 02 03:43:08 <benley> (well, as of 3 years ago)
Oct 02 03:43:36 <benley> morrildl: did I miss something, can you run modern stuff on the sooner again?
Oct 02 03:43:59 <morrildl> benley: nope, the Sooner is over.
Oct 02 03:44:05 <morrildl> woefully out of date
Oct 02 03:44:11 <plusminus_> did the get destroyed ?
Oct 02 03:44:24 <morrildl> more accurately the UI as designed for the G1 does not work on the Sooner.
Oct 02 03:44:32 <plusminus_> or did you put it to a private showcase ?
Oct 02 03:44:54 <benley> I've got a sooner in a box somewhere.
Oct 02 03:44:54 <morrildl> plusminus_: I don't know what happened to them, actually
Oct 02 03:45:04 <plusminus_> It would be so geekish to have one ^^
Oct 02 03:45:07 <plusminus_> hm ok
Oct 02 03:45:13 <benley> afaik they remain in the hands of whoever had them when the software left them behind.
Oct 02 03:46:30 <plusminus_> I'd buy one, even if just m3 works on it ^^
Oct 02 03:47:13 <benley> heh. you can even run m4 :)
Oct 02 03:47:42 <plusminus_> m4 was never public ... :(
Oct 02 03:47:51 <plusminus_> did it have the same UI ?
Oct 02 03:48:06 <morrildl> plusminus_: not really
Oct 02 03:48:21 <morrildl> imagine a UI halfway between M3 and M5 and you have M4 :)
Oct 02 03:48:22 <plusminus_> so really sth between m3 and m5
Oct 02 03:48:23 <benley> m4 had the "home sweet home" ui
Oct 02 03:48:26 <plusminus_> ^^
Oct 02 03:48:34 <benley> (I think)
Oct 02 03:48:38 <plusminus_> I'd love to see a screenshot of that
Oct 02 03:48:40 <morrildl> benley: home sweet home is the M5 Home
Oct 02 03:48:45 <benley> oh, hm
Oct 02 03:48:51 <morrildl> plusminus_: no you wouldn't
Oct 02 03:48:57 <plusminus_> lol
Oct 02 03:49:01 <morrildl> there are reasons why M4 was never public :)
Oct 02 03:49:05 <morrildl> that's all I'm going to say
Oct 02 03:49:14 <plusminus_> ok, I understand ;)
Oct 02 03:49:40 <wastrel> i'm watching dan morrill's tutorial video
Oct 02 03:49:54 <morrildl> wastrel: then you know why I can't rollerblade
Oct 02 03:50:09 <morrildl> we need to update that thing actually
Oct 02 03:50:18 <wastrel> doh i didn't realize
Oct 02 03:50:22 <wastrel> i'm bad at ircnicks
Oct 02 03:50:27 <wastrel> hi dan i like your video :]
Oct 02 03:50:32 <morrildl> wastrel: :)
Oct 02 03:52:58 <morrildl> We spent probably 6 hours on that 7 minute video
Oct 02 03:53:07 <morrildl> video is HARD
Oct 02 03:53:31 <benley> let's go shopping
Oct 02 03:53:43 <morrildl> benley: hahaahhaha
Oct 02 03:53:47 <morrildl> indeed
Oct 02 03:53:59 <wastrel> it's 8 minutes really
Oct 02 03:54:05 <wastrel> my wife is doing video at her job latel
Oct 02 03:54:11 <muthu_> where's the video link?
Oct 02 03:54:14 <wastrel> y.  took all day yesterday
Oct 02 03:54:21 <wastrel> for yeah, something like 10 min
Oct 02 03:54:24 <wastrel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ObTqIiYfE&feature=PlayList&p=586D322B5E2764CF&index=1
Oct 02 03:54:54 <muthu_> thx
Oct 02 03:54:57 <plusminus_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ObTqIiYfE
Oct 02 03:54:58 <plusminus_> argh
Oct 02 03:55:05 <wastrel> lots of videos at android.com
Oct 02 03:55:10 <morrildl> I think we still have the source shots
Oct 02 03:55:13 <plusminus_> yeah I like them
Oct 02 03:55:23 <plusminus_> some things I didn't know up to now ^^
Oct 02 03:55:23 <morrildl> so hypothetically I would just need to record the screencast portions again
Oct 02 03:55:37 <morrildl> but honestly I think we'd be better off just doing a new one
Oct 02 03:55:49 <morrildl> yeah I love those videos
Oct 02 03:56:45 <plusminus_> morrildl: I'm just seeing your video and seezing my Android-shirt I'm wearing :)
Oct 02 03:57:15 <plusminus_> the roid is cult
Oct 02 03:57:17 <plusminus_> droid
Oct 02 03:57:40 <plusminus_> to be honest, I pray to it every evening ;)
Oct 02 03:57:49 <wastrel> i snagged a java book from work... covers java 2
Oct 02 03:59:14 <illuminum> I keep getting "unknown errors" attempting to open up http connections :( unhelpful errors make illuminum cry
Oct 02 04:00:26 <ahaberlach> Do you have the network permission?
Oct 02 04:00:41 <morrildl> ahaberlach: O HAI
Oct 02 04:00:46 <illuminum> i dunno, mebbes--i tought i setup dmz on this dhcp ip
Oct 02 04:00:57 <illuminum> plus i'm not attempting xss, just standard http reqs
Oct 02 04:00:57 <ahaberlach> I SEEZ JOO!
Oct 02 04:02:13 * benley sleeps
Oct 02 04:03:00 <_avatar> illuminum: to access the network your app needs a permission in AndroidManifest.xml, e.g. <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.INTERNET" />
Oct 02 04:03:29 <illuminum> oi thats helpful, where'd you read that bit (/me looks in the sdk)
Oct 02 04:03:50 <morrildl> illuminum: it'll be in the release notes
Oct 02 04:03:54 <unix_infidel> illuminum: it's one of the first things taught, I think it first gets mentioned in the notepad tutorial.
Oct 02 04:04:01 <muthu_> ha, nov 2007
Oct 02 04:04:05 <morrildl> that too :)
Oct 02 04:04:17 <illuminum> don't recall seeing it in the notepad tutorial
Oct 02 04:04:17 <muthu_> pretty old.. but dan is sooo excited
Oct 02 04:04:26 <_avatar> hey dan, long time no talk. how have you been? (this is casey from a2z)
Oct 02 04:04:33 <morrildl> muthu_: dude that was like the 10th take
Oct 02 04:04:33 <unix_infidel> illuminum: permissions are mentioned there.
Oct 02 04:04:42 <muthu_> morrildl: lol
Oct 02 04:04:52 <morrildl> _avatar: !!
Oct 02 04:04:57 <morrildl> _avatar: hello there
Oct 02 04:05:05 <_avatar> hey ;)
Oct 02 04:05:17 <unix_infidel> lol @ 10th take.  I bet that was a productive use of an afternoon.
Oct 02 04:05:17 <wastrel> i should do the notepad tutorial
Oct 02 04:05:39 <morrildl> If any of you heard of the Amazon MP3 client app that is shipping with the G1, _avatar is the engineer responsible
Oct 02 04:05:52 <illuminum> is that right avatar?
Oct 02 04:06:03 <illuminum> :o
Oct 02 04:06:06 <ahaberlach> Cool!
Oct 02 04:06:17 <morrildl> I love that app
Oct 02 04:06:17 <wastrel> interesting
Oct 02 04:06:30 <_avatar> :) thanks
Oct 02 04:06:34 <unix_infidel> rock on!
Oct 02 04:06:44 <ahaberlach> If anyone finds any bugs, I was the engineering who was irresponsible.  :)
Oct 02 04:06:45 <unix_infidel> now, can you engineer a 3.5mm jack?
Oct 02 04:06:52 <morrildl> My own contribution was that I think I was the very first person to buy anything using it ;)
Oct 02 04:07:06 <unix_infidel> ;-)
Oct 02 04:07:06 <morrildl> unix_infidel: ask HTC, it's their device :)
Oct 02 04:07:54 <plusminus_> just 20 days left guys :(
Oct 02 04:08:13 <f00f-> great, i'm taking names :)
Oct 02 04:08:18 <PoohbaLT> lol... is this really a countdown?
Oct 02 04:08:34 <PoohbaLT> like its Y2K ... hahahaha
Oct 02 04:08:54 <plusminus_> I have a calendar and I'm striking through the days....  21... 20...
Oct 02 04:08:56 <muthu_> shit, my ubuntu is effed up
Oct 02 04:09:00 * plusminus_ just kidding
Oct 02 04:09:14 <wastrel> ubuntu has been annoying me lately
Oct 02 04:09:23 <muthu_> switched from fedora 9
Oct 02 04:09:27 <muthu_> now its been a mess
Oct 02 04:09:28 <morrildl> I wish Ubuntu used RPM, then it would be perfect
Oct 02 04:09:48 <wastrel> heresy
Oct 02 04:10:27 <f00f-> i don't think i've ever heard anyone say they like RPM, until now!
Oct 02 04:11:30 <snadge> the problem with ubuntu is.. 90% of the world needs to use it
Oct 02 04:11:36 <snadge> for that development method to be truly successful
Oct 02 04:11:41 <snadge> its too far ahead of its time :p
Oct 02 04:12:10 <snadge> theres not enough oversight of the development
Oct 02 04:12:17 <f00f-> huh?
Oct 02 04:12:18 <snadge> not enough testing, bug reporting and fixing
Oct 02 04:12:19 <f00f-> it's based on debian
Oct 02 04:12:22 <f00f-> debian is rock solid
Oct 02 04:12:24 <illuminum> woot I just got my first http connection, parsing xml from within the android sdk. well on my way to creative new fronts now. :)
Oct 02 04:12:27 <f00f-> they release once every 2 years
Oct 02 04:12:28 <morrildl> .deb is a joke as a file format
Oct 02 04:12:35 <snadge> ubuntu releases every 6 months
Oct 02 04:12:39 <morrildl> apt-get is admittedly better than say yum, even today
Oct 02 04:12:41 <wastrel> what's the significance of the . at the beginning of .Notepadv1 in the Activity Name in the eclipse plugin?
Oct 02 04:12:43 <morrildl> but rpm beats .deb hands down
Oct 02 04:12:45 <snadge> and follows a different release schedule to debian
Oct 02 04:12:48 <f00f-> ah, i haven't had much interaction with the formats
Oct 02 04:12:52 <illuminum> whats the most popular distro at gentoo
Oct 02 04:12:55 <PoohbaLT> hahahaha... if ubuntu used rpms it'd be fedora.  hahaha
Oct 02 04:12:55 <illuminum> at google i mean
Oct 02 04:12:56 <f00f-> is .rpm zip or gz based?
Oct 02 04:12:56 <illuminum> heh
Oct 02 04:13:09 <morrildl> f00f-: cpio
Oct 02 04:13:13 <f00f-> ah cpio, right
Oct 02 04:13:18 <f00f-> mc can easily open them
Oct 02 04:13:20 <unix_infidel> deb is probably more extensible, rpm tends to just be more solid all around.
Oct 02 04:13:31 <unix_infidel> and it's more ubiquitous.
Oct 02 04:13:31 <morrildl> wastrel: it means that it's a child of the package defined for the application
Oct 02 04:13:48 <f00f-> yeah i totally hate the rpm/yum paackage manaegers
Oct 02 04:13:56 <morrildl> wastrel: in that case the . is optional, but you can also have subpackages.  e.g. you could use something like ".subpackage.SomeClass"
Oct 02 04:14:16 <morrildl> unix_infidel: exactly
Oct 02 04:15:29 <unix_infidel> i think the logic being that if you can extend all the thinking out of it, it's better for the user.
Oct 02 04:15:32 <unix_infidel> *shrug*
Oct 02 04:17:11 <morrildl> still I can't fault ubuntu for remaining compatible with the upstream distro repos
Oct 02 04:20:11 <morrildl> rwhitby: 117 users.  had 121 earlier today.  Your IRC bot is making a comeback
Oct 02 04:22:38 <rwhitby> morrildl: I've been too busy to keep creating dummy users - that's why it hasn't peaked higher ...
Oct 02 04:22:56 <morrildl> ;)
Oct 02 04:36:06 <muthu_> i'm rooting for motorola
Oct 02 04:44:06 <morrildl> does anyone know if there si a java port of scummvm?
Oct 02 04:44:23 <morrildl> I need to be able to play Secret of Monkey Island on my G1
Oct 02 04:49:57 <morrildl> apparently not :(
Oct 02 04:51:37 <ttuttle> morrildl: get coding
Oct 02 05:11:02 <minerale> ok, I'll just come out and say this.. but the web browser on the emulator seems slow
Oct 02 05:11:13 <minerale> at least compared to the iphone emulator
Oct 02 05:11:42 <minerale> and I'm running it on a 2.4 core2duo MBP.. with 4 gigs of ram
Oct 02 05:14:23 <minerale> there, i've said it ...
Oct 02 05:16:51 <plusminus_> anyone got the GPS-mock-providing via DDMS working?
Oct 02 05:26:50 <dmoffett> plusminus: I have been trying to get that to work with no luck.
Oct 02 05:27:06 <dmoffett> about to go to your site for some help.  :-)
Oct 02 05:33:29 <poetic_folly|G5> anyone have experience with mod_log_sql?
Oct 02 06:40:17 <f00f-> muthu_: http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2008/09/guy-in-mumbai.html
Oct 02 06:40:52 <f00f-> it's funny the sign says santa cruz
Oct 02 06:40:57 <f00f-> obviously that's not *our* santa cruz
Oct 02 06:42:55 <muthu_> let me check
Oct 02 06:43:11 <muthu_> haha
Oct 02 06:43:25 <muthu_> its *your* santacruz afaik
Oct 02 06:43:52 <f00f-> not the one in bolivia?
Oct 02 06:44:44 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 02 06:44:50 <muthu_> guy rocks
Oct 02 06:44:55 <muthu_> cool guy
Oct 02 06:46:37 <muthu_> tmobile is hiring huh
Oct 02 06:46:46 <f00f-> for shore
Oct 02 06:46:52 <f00f-> but who isn't
Oct 02 06:46:58 <snadge> do they need lazy linux system administrators?
Oct 02 06:47:02 <f00f-> motorola big hiring spree
Oct 02 06:47:10 <f00f-> nokia is hinting at something
Oct 02 06:47:14 <f00f-> samsung will be hiring if not already
Oct 02 06:47:15 <f00f-> so will lg
Oct 02 06:47:21 <muthu_> yooohoo
Oct 02 06:47:23 <snadge> why, because they're all switching to android?
Oct 02 06:47:26 <f00f-> not to talk about verizon
Oct 02 06:47:31 <f00f-> and spring once they get out of the red
Oct 02 06:47:41 <muthu_> vodafone/airtel/hutch
Oct 02 06:47:43 <f00f-> part of it
Oct 02 06:47:47 <muthu_> reliance/tata
Oct 02 06:47:51 <muthu_> china mobile
Oct 02 06:47:52 <f00f-> man did you see the CEO compensation the alltel folks got?
Oct 02 06:47:54 <f00f-> it's astounding
Oct 02 06:48:04 <f00f-> up there pimping with the level of goldman sachs et al.
Oct 02 06:48:07 <muthu_> woah
Oct 02 06:48:54 <f00f-> it's on money.cnn.com
Oct 02 06:49:35 <f00f-> http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0809/gallery.women_men_highest_pay.fortune/
Oct 02 06:49:55 <snadge> i think google should loan the money to wall street
Oct 02 06:50:00 <jasta> the US has got to change this crap
Oct 02 06:50:16 <snadge> and in turn, google should get to own and control america
Oct 02 06:50:20 <snadge> :P
Oct 02 06:50:34 <jasta> i fear they'd rename it America Beta
Oct 02 06:50:44 <muthu_> lol
Oct 02 06:50:45 <f00f-> !evil
Oct 02 06:51:03 <muthu_> they own EArth
Oct 02 06:51:12 <snadge> thats right.. after all.. it is Google's Earth
Oct 02 06:51:22 <snadge> and its their moon too ;)
Oct 02 06:51:28 <muthu_> and mars
Oct 02 06:51:44 <snadge> then why cant we vote google?
Oct 02 06:51:48 <snadge> instead of democrat, or republican etc
Oct 02 06:52:06 * umdk1d3 subliminally whispers ronpaul
Oct 02 06:52:28 <muthu_> ronpaul is liberatarian?
Oct 02 06:52:35 <snadge> i like ron paul.. i think the man has heart, but he cant really suggest anything other than get rid of the federal reserve
Oct 02 06:52:37 <umdk1d3> ronpaul is my friend ^.^
Oct 02 06:52:43 <snadge> yeah ron paul is a librarian :p
Oct 02 06:52:48 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 02 06:53:08 <muthu_> anyone running in dems seat will win
Oct 02 06:53:16 <muthu_> no chance for mccain
Oct 02 06:53:27 <umdk1d3> lol muthu_ you dont even live here  :P
Oct 02 06:53:31 <snadge> you kidding.. half the country still uses diebolds electronic voting systems
Oct 02 06:53:38 <snadge> so this election should be another nail biting one
Oct 02 06:53:43 <snadge> with the republicans winning by 5 votes
Oct 02 06:53:51 <muthu_> umdk1d3: so what i say must be true ;)
Oct 02 06:53:51 <snadge> :P
Oct 02 06:54:40 <gambler> ron paul is nuts...its so sick that he would have made the best president out of the 3
Oct 02 06:55:10 <umdk1d3> i was kinda hoping that pallin would backfire so that ron would be in the running again
Oct 02 06:55:28 <gambler> mmmm palin vpilf.com
Oct 02 06:55:40 <muthu_> palin effect would be interesting
Oct 02 06:55:43 <snadge> if palin was intelligent.. i'd want to sex her
Oct 02 06:55:54 <muthu_> hmm..
Oct 02 06:56:02 <snadge> but watching her interviews on cbs.. my manhood retreated inside my body in horror
Oct 02 06:56:04 <gambler> put it back in your pants snadge... i was kidding
Oct 02 06:56:13 <muthu_> haha
Oct 02 06:56:19 <umdk1d3> =O
Oct 02 06:56:34 <umdk1d3> yall saw the head of skate trailer?
Oct 02 06:56:46 <muthu_> where's it?
Oct 02 06:56:52 <snadge> there is one thing palin is really good at.. and thats giving a completely incomprehensible answer, that doesnt even come close to answering the question asked.. but sounds good if you're stupid
Oct 02 06:57:21 <snadge> so my guess is after the debates on thursday.. 90% of each party, will think that they won the debate
Oct 02 06:57:31 <snadge> the other 10% are confused statistical anomalies
Oct 02 06:58:19 <muthu_> mccain won round 1
Oct 02 06:58:28 <snadge> according to the media, obama did
Oct 02 06:58:42 <snadge> according to each party.. their party did
Oct 02 06:58:45 <umdk1d3> the media is just nuts here
Oct 02 06:59:17 <umdk1d3> i used to watch fox news for a good laugh, now all of it is just sad
Oct 02 06:59:24 <snadge> if you read the liberal media like i do.. the msnbc, huffington post etc
Oct 02 06:59:28 <umdk1d3> to watch how they rip stuff apart with no redeeming value
Oct 02 06:59:28 <gambler> yep...all the analysis on the analysis. I feel so sad for my american friends who still vote
Oct 02 06:59:58 <snadge> obama leads in key areas where it matters .. otherwise its still close
Oct 02 07:00:10 <muthu_> there's no way mccain can win
Oct 02 07:00:12 <snadge> he also leads polls in florida and ohio
Oct 02 07:00:27 * umdk1d3 backs away from politics
Oct 02 07:00:36 <gambler> i love how flip flopping has become the ultimate evil....
Oct 02 07:00:41 <gambler> revising your opinion under new evidence is a sign of intelligence
Oct 02 07:00:46 <gambler> but one you will pay dearly for
Oct 02 07:01:03 <snadge> it depends how quickly you flip flop.. and for what reasons
Oct 02 07:01:19 <muthu_> yeah, not like every 2 days
Oct 02 07:01:22 <gambler> no it doesnt...any flip flopping is punished
Oct 02 07:01:37 <snadge> changing your mind once.. after 2 years.. is one thing
Oct 02 07:01:47 <snadge> changing your position after 2 days.. and then back again
Oct 02 07:02:03 <snadge> deserves crucifixion
Oct 02 07:03:15 <gambler> meh the smartest ppl i have ever met are all huge flip floppers
Oct 02 07:06:59 <gambler> I hope Bill Gates runs for president or some other rich patriotic dude
Oct 02 07:07:04 <gambler> on a 3rd party ticket
Oct 02 07:09:28 <muthu_> rich fellows dont do politics
Oct 02 07:10:38 <gambler> bloomberg wants it...
Oct 02 07:17:46 <snadge> america should just tank, and the rest of the world loot and pillage anything of value thats left ;)
Oct 02 07:17:57 <snadge> im joking.. haha
Oct 02 07:18:37 <snadge> the rest of the world seems to be very interested in the american economy though
Oct 02 07:18:52 <snadge> like our prime minister.. begging for the reforms to go through congress
Oct 02 07:19:18 <snadge> which incidentally have been passed for anyone still living under a rock ;)
Oct 02 07:19:47 <snadge> by reforms i actually meant 700B bailout plan
Oct 02 07:23:31 <jasta> sigh, working on threaded code late at night.  i sure hope i didn't code in a dead lock somewhere ;)
Oct 02 07:34:16 <muthu_> oh its passed
Oct 02 07:34:20 <muthu_> great
Oct 02 07:34:51 <muthu_> jasta: don't hit on sleep too many times ;)
Oct 02 07:37:38 <tric> oh, nice, native sdk announced.
Oct 02 07:38:16 <jasta> uhh, really?
Oct 02 07:38:52 <isaac> uh, where? what?
Oct 02 07:39:47 <jasta> hmm, my shenanigans just caused the adb server to crash?
Oct 02 07:40:05 <tric> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/9c7ffe8c2b0b12e2
Oct 02 07:40:34 <gambler> wow...
Oct 02 07:41:01 <jasta> that's great news
Oct 02 07:42:08 <duey> wouldn't you have to recompile your stuff for every device :\
Oct 02 07:42:48 <jasta> well, for every unique binary incompatible architecture, just like all Linux distros do with hordes of software.
Oct 02 07:43:07 <jasta> (enter build system...)
Oct 02 07:43:12 <tric> yeah. of course. but there are reasons not to port stuff to java/dalvik
Oct 02 07:43:17 <duey> ya just a pain for users
Oct 02 07:44:17 <tric> and i guess they are adding it cause ppl will use jni even without the native official support, cause it works (for the most)
Oct 02 07:44:29 <gambler> is ARM code portable among different ARMs? it seems like the dominant mobile plaform
Oct 02 07:44:40 <jasta> duey: not really, if they offer you a sane distribution mechanism.
Oct 02 07:44:59 <jasta> one which allows you to package your software to include all of the supported archs and let their package manager work out the installation
Oct 02 07:45:29 <tric> maybe a multi platform apk would be cool, just like the apple way of ppc and x86 executable in one binary
Oct 02 07:45:32 <jasta> gambler: there are families that are compatible.
Oct 02 07:45:41 <jasta> but not every ARM processor is compatible, no.
Oct 02 07:46:01 <tric> but android isnt ported to other than one plattform anyway
Oct 02 07:48:14 <jasta> i dont see this as an unmanagable problem at all.  in fact, i see it as a well solved problem space that Google should be more than capable of managing well.
Oct 02 07:48:31 <jasta> and i'm glad they're officially recognizing that fact :)
Oct 02 07:55:00 <jasta> holy crap.  my huge and complex MediaPlayer workaround is finally starting to work :)
Oct 02 07:57:05 <tric> jasta: i guess enough devs are using jni or asking for it.
Oct 02 08:05:08 <f00f-> didn't pass the houseyet folks
Oct 02 08:07:32 <jasta> i am so ecstatic that i got this shit working
Oct 02 08:07:50 <jasta> this is huge.  i should post this to devtcg.org
Oct 02 08:08:35 <jasta> i should probably finish seek support first, though :)
Oct 02 08:08:44 <jasta> i guess that's the real impressive part of this design
Oct 02 08:14:43 <f00f-> can i use five as a music player only?
Oct 02 08:14:45 <f00f-> with local mp3 files
Oct 02 08:14:56 <jasta> not currently, but i'm working on that next
Oct 02 08:14:58 <anno^da> does that mean that it would be possible to use libraries like the "libpurple" to create great instant messaging apps?
Oct 02 08:15:09 <jasta> i'm going to include some sophistication to let Five "consume" raw files on your SD card
Oct 02 08:15:19 <f00f-> very nice
Oct 02 08:15:31 <jasta> that is, try to detect (from the tags) whether they are files in your online collection and, if they are, move them into Five's cache system to be managed like all the others
Oct 02 08:15:32 <f00f-> i'll be looking for crossfading support, too, fyi :)
Oct 02 08:15:36 <anno^da> jasta: I'm looking for FLAC support in your app ;)
Oct 02 08:15:41 <jasta> so this would allow users of Five to bulk copy some or all of their mp3s to "start"
Oct 02 08:15:59 <jasta> anno^da: already has it (sorta).  the server can transcode FLACs to OGG on the fly
Oct 02 08:16:18 <jasta> f00f-: yes, well, cross-fading is tricky because the MediaPlayer would really need that sophistication.
Oct 02 08:16:20 <anno^da> ah havent looked closer into your app
Oct 02 08:16:42 <anno^da> http://digg.com/gadgets/Google_working_on_official_support_for_JNI_in_Android_SDK
Oct 02 08:17:20 <jasta> anno^da: there are quite a few little pieces that need to be assembled together before it can be mass distributed, but i'm sure they'll fall into place soon enough.
Oct 02 08:17:52 <tric> anno^da: well, will be a long way to see phones with this native app/lib support.
Oct 02 08:17:52 <anno^da> ah sounds great.
Oct 02 08:18:02 <jasta> the suckiest part though, is that Five can't be distributed by the app store except as a demo (which i plan to do if i can secure good enough server bandwidth)
Oct 02 08:18:34 <jasta> because the Android part of Five is not especially useful without the server software installed onto your PC.
Oct 02 08:18:34 <muthu_> brasero in ubuntu is not able to write a dvd
Oct 02 08:18:42 <muthu_> any dvd writers for ubuntu?
Oct 02 08:19:03 <anno^da> jasta: Well ok I would install the server software. :-)
Oct 02 08:19:04 <tric> k3b
Oct 02 08:19:16 <muthu_> any gnome stuff?
Oct 02 08:19:19 <jasta> hmm, have you guys seen this -scale option in the emulator?
Oct 02 08:19:22 <jasta> this is sweet
Oct 02 08:19:55 <muthu_> scale 0.6 is what i use to get real device effect
Oct 02 08:20:29 <tric> gnome-baker?
Oct 02 08:20:30 <jasta> i'd need a tape measure to tell ;)
Oct 02 08:20:31 <tric> gnomebaker
Oct 02 08:20:36 <jasta> -scale auto seemed to work reasonably well for me
Oct 02 08:21:01 <muthu_> tric: thx
Oct 02 08:21:38 <tric> muthu: what about apt-cache search burn dvd
Oct 02 08:22:09 <muthu_> am new to this whole apt stuff
Oct 02 08:22:25 <jasta> muthu_: apt-get moo
Oct 02 08:22:28 <muthu_> migrated from fedora, but ubuntu has its own mess
Oct 02 08:22:46 <muthu_> jasta: thx.. will try
Oct 02 08:22:56 <jasta> hehe
Oct 02 08:23:05 <jasta> also, apt-get --help | tail -1
Oct 02 08:23:15 <jasta> Debian loves bovines.
Oct 02 08:26:16 <muthu_> 10 days back.. got stuck in fedora
Oct 02 08:26:26 <muthu_> still trying to get back into some sorta coding shape
Oct 02 08:28:20 <fearphage> jasta: were you still going to point me to the chipset information?
Oct 02 08:28:30 <fearphage> for the g1
Oct 02 08:28:55 <jasta> uhh, wasn't planning on it
Oct 02 08:29:13 <jasta> in fact, i was thinking i might just go to bed
Oct 02 08:29:40 <fearphage> ok, i asked a question you asked me to clarify and then nothing else happened
Oct 02 08:29:46 <fearphage> i was mistaken. sorry
Oct 02 08:29:52 <jasta> i might have wandered off
Oct 02 08:30:29 <fearphage> can anyone tell me where i can find detailed hardware information about the g1? details like hardware make/model and the wifi chipset
Oct 02 08:30:45 <fearphage> mobo make/model*
Oct 02 08:32:31 <tric> ask google devs or tmobile or htc ;)
Oct 02 08:36:17 <jasta> or just check the git tree ;)
Oct 02 08:39:55 <jasta> night folks
Oct 02 08:44:53 * kaze is gone.. autoaway after 15 min ..[cyp(l/on.p/on)]
Oct 02 09:37:39 <BBHoss> anything in android to read QR codes?
Oct 02 09:40:38 <schmylan> google for zxing
Oct 02 10:33:37 <muthu> http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2008/10/google-on-android-search.html
Oct 02 13:15:37 <pardom> is there an intent to open up the "add to contacts" activity?
Oct 02 13:39:01 <pardom> android question: is there an intent to open up the "add to contacts" activity?
Oct 02 13:39:57 <pardom> or do i just put it in there via uri
Oct 02 13:41:15 <muthu_> you should use a content uri
Oct 02 13:58:29 <pardom> k
Oct 02 13:59:17 <pardom> i just didnt wanna jam data in there, but i guess the user can edit contacts so it doesnt matter
Oct 02 14:19:26 <muthu_> anyone using netbeans?
Oct 02 14:19:48 <muthu_> heard its pretty good ide
Oct 02 14:22:13 <cutmasta> my favorite
Oct 02 14:22:35 <muthu_> cutmasta: does it support android?
Oct 02 14:22:48 <cutmasta> no idea
Oct 02 14:22:50 <cutmasta> for android
Oct 02 14:22:53 <cutmasta> i use eclipse
Oct 02 14:22:58 <cutmasta> with the android plugin
Oct 02 14:23:09 <muthu_> ok
Oct 02 14:29:36 <jasonlee> yeah, i wish there was a netbeans plugin for android too
Oct 02 14:31:33 <muthu_> we'll see some once 1.0 is out
Oct 02 14:36:33 <Dougie187> muthu_: someone was saying undroid is an android plugin for netbeans
Oct 02 14:36:41 <Dougie187> ionno know
Oct 02 14:36:44 <Dougie187> though*
Oct 02 14:36:59 <muthu_> Dougie187: yeah, but seems outdated
Oct 02 14:37:01 <jasonlee> yeah, i read the website, doesn't look like it was more than a weekend project
Oct 02 14:49:29 <pardom> how do i stop/exit an activity?
Oct 02 14:50:25 <living_sword> system manages that.
Oct 02 14:50:41 <pardom> yes but i need to manage it lol
Oct 02 14:51:15 <living_sword> u can use finish()
Oct 02 14:51:19 <pardom> k thx
Oct 02 14:59:10 <SanMehat> morning
Oct 02 15:38:45 <muthu_> handango, market, slideme, tmobile.. wow!
Oct 02 15:42:59 <dd94300> Can somebody tell me which application can be replaced in SDK 1.0? Or point me to right place....
Oct 02 15:43:37 <jasta> can you be more specific perhaps?
Oct 02 15:43:51 <dd94300> like Dialer
Oct 02 15:44:00 <dd94300> is it possible to replace it
Oct 02 15:44:07 <jasta> yes
Oct 02 15:45:02 <dd94300> does this apply to other apps, such as contacts?
Oct 02 15:45:16 <jasta> contacts can be replaced too, yes
Oct 02 15:45:35 <jasta> moreover, you'd implement your own app that does everything the contacts app does
Oct 02 15:45:36 <dd94300> thanks jasta, one more question
Oct 02 15:45:39 <jasta> and registers all the right intent-filters
Oct 02 15:45:50 <jasta> however, you can do nothing to remove the Contacts app from the applications menu
Oct 02 15:46:03 <jasta> and that is true of most apps that will be shipped with the phone.
Oct 02 15:47:05 <jasta> with sufficient skill, you could reflash your own device to include your apps instead of the default ones, however.
Oct 02 15:47:34 <dd94300> could you tell me where i can find these information?
Oct 02 15:47:45 <jasta> what information?
Oct 02 15:48:15 <dd94300> like anything that Google have mentioned in their docs
Oct 02 15:48:32 <jasta> not following.
Oct 02 15:49:43 <dd94300> I am looking for comments or documents that is provided by google
Oct 02 15:49:51 <jasta> ...on what topic?
Oct 02 15:50:09 <dd94300> on replacing Default apps
Oct 02 15:50:22 <jasta> i dont know that theyve written anything so explicit
Oct 02 15:51:34 <dd94300> jasta , thanks for the info. I am not well skilled, yet but i will still do little research on reflashing my device
Oct 02 15:53:31 <jasta> dd94300: i didn't intend to imply that reflashing is officially supported.
Oct 02 15:53:59 <jasta> quite the opposite, and my comment about "sufficient skill" meant that if you don't know what i'm talking about, it likely won't be possible for you for quite some time.
Oct 02 15:59:30 <dd94300> jasta, thanks for the note. I am just going to little research on it, I am not planning to do it.
Oct 02 16:01:38 <Disconnect> any official word yet about whether google will work to keep everyone in the sandbox?
Oct 02 16:02:31 <jasta> i dont think you really have to worry about Google
Oct 02 16:02:36 <jasta> worry about T-Mobile and HTC :)
Oct 02 16:03:09 <jasta> but even then, i don't think any amount of energy expended by any OHA member will be enough to stop the open source community from ripping this thing apart
Oct 02 16:04:18 <ttuttle> greetings
Oct 02 16:05:41 <pjv> hi all, I posted a wishlist bug report on launchpad.net earlier about translations for Android, but it got a rather negative reply: https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/275290
Oct 02 16:06:47 <pjv> what do you guys think? anybody thinking of using launchpad?
Oct 02 16:06:56 <ttuttle> no
Oct 02 16:10:04 <muthu_> can apps be submitted simultaneously to multiple markets like handango, tmobile etc.,?
Oct 02 16:10:26 <Cedric2> Depends on the TOS of each individual market
Oct 02 16:10:40 <Cedric2> I would certainly not update my app to a market asking me for exclusivity
Oct 02 16:11:06 <muthu_> ok, thx
Oct 02 16:11:14 <muthu_> "non-exclusivity" is the key
Oct 02 16:11:20 <muthu_> got it
Oct 02 16:12:12 <muthu_> guess handango is non exclusive worldwide
Oct 02 16:12:31 <muthu_> android market shouldn't be an issue
Oct 02 16:12:42 <muthu_> tmobile - no idea!
Oct 02 16:12:44 <Cedric2> Yeah we are not evil, remember?
Oct 02 16:12:54 <ttuttle> romainguy: hey
Oct 02 16:13:13 <muthu_> i can trust google anyday
Oct 02 16:15:02 <muthu_> its the 3rd party markets that we need to really read the TOS
Oct 02 16:15:15 <muthu_> but mostly it looks fine
Oct 02 16:18:17 <Disconnect> jasta: thats kinda my thought (sorry, my net connection blew up so i was afk earlier) but it really comes down to google and tmob in this case. wondering if (for example) they are gonna try to cripple jni or encrypt the flasher images, etc..
Oct 02 16:18:55 * Disconnect has yet to find a field-upgradable linux box that couldn't be broken, generally without too much trouble, but you never know.
Oct 02 16:53:14 <herriojr> I'm curious, what does android do if I have two services from two different apps with the same name/interface?
Oct 02 16:53:29 <herriojr> how does it know which to call
Oct 02 16:55:49 <muthu_> it might present a dialog to choose
Oct 02 16:58:39 <jasta> any folks around with devices that would be willing to help me test something?
Oct 02 17:11:03 <Proteus> quick question - does android have any support for SVG?
Oct 02 17:11:12 <Disconnect> nope
Oct 02 17:11:26 <Proteus> damn
Oct 02 17:11:34 <Proteus> any similar alternatives?
Oct 02 17:12:49 <Proteus_> whoops, connection error  - are there any alternatives to svg available?
Oct 02 17:14:37 <jasta> Proteus_: well, it supports nine-patch bitmaps which can be used to achieve similar effects in certain situations.
Oct 02 17:16:20 <Proteus_> jasta, I'm not familiar with nine-patch bitmaps
Oct 02 17:18:17 <Proteus_> is android compatable with OGL ES 1.1 or just 1.0?
Oct 02 17:18:26 <jasta> no idea.
Oct 02 17:19:17 <fadden> http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/opengl.html
Oct 02 17:20:33 <Proteus_> yah, it's just been a while since I checked in here and I'd heard that 1.1 support was forthcomming
Oct 02 17:26:25 <muthu_> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/228201/nokia-unimpressed-by-android.html
Oct 02 17:30:12 <Dipen> Does anybody know if HTC G1 comes with video/flash player?
Oct 02 17:30:49 <monteslu> as in adobe flash?
Oct 02 17:30:53 <montamer> hi is there a way to unlock screen from console / start any application ? ...... Im trying to run android on a arm board .... android starts but by default the screen locks .... i still have no  gpio driver
Oct 02 17:31:00 <Dipen> yes
Oct 02 17:31:05 <monteslu> doubt it
Oct 02 17:31:17 <monteslu> not one in the sdk
Oct 02 17:31:47 <Dipen> no, i am talking about actual HTC G1
Oct 02 17:32:00 <monteslu> Dipen, supposed to be the exact same bits
Oct 02 17:33:24 <zhobbs> Dipen: no flash, but there is video capabilities
Oct 02 17:34:00 <Dipen> ok thanks zhobbs...monteslu
Oct 02 17:34:05 <monteslu> yeah, just use SVG...
Oct 02 17:34:12 <monteslu> oh wait, there's no SVG :)
Oct 02 17:34:43 <jasta> zhobbs: what is Adobe's fucking problem by the way?
Oct 02 17:35:24 <monteslu> incompitence?
Oct 02 17:35:40 <zhobbs> jasta: don't know, what'd they do?
Oct 02 17:36:05 <monteslu> not put any resources into a 64 bit flash player
Oct 02 17:36:12 <monteslu> or photoshop for linux
Oct 02 17:36:38 <monteslu> or 64bit photoshop for linux :)
Oct 02 17:37:30 <Proteus_> I love their ancient pdf reader for linux. Nearly unusable, ugly as hell, and completely out of date.
Oct 02 17:39:02 <benley> fortunately there are 9000 other pdf readers that work fine
Oct 02 17:39:17 <benley> (except with PDFs generated by adobe's ridiculous 'features')
Oct 02 17:39:52 <Proteus_> right. xpdf and kpdf are more pleasant to use than adobe's own windows products
Oct 02 17:40:08 <benley> they probably won't release a new acroread for linux because they can't figure out how to wrap it in 47 layers of installers and downloader apps and other obfuscation
Oct 02 17:40:11 <jasta> zhobbs: i'm referring to their attitude toward mobile web browsers
Oct 02 17:40:43 <jasta> i've heard they have just very recently decided to create a FLASH player for iPhone, but then no plans to support any other platform?  why hasn't this been a no-brainer for them since day 1?!
Oct 02 17:41:30 <f00f-> Proteus_: acrobat for linux isn't that old
Oct 02 17:42:01 <f00f-> not sure what thou smoketh
Oct 02 17:42:10 * Disconnect has flash on his e90 and 9300i. its not the latest but it works well enough.
Oct 02 17:42:11 <Proteus_> it's been a while since i tried it, perhaps they've updated it. It's a moot point though considering the quality of the alternatives
Oct 02 17:42:24 <f00f-> the alternatives totally suck imho
Oct 02 17:42:29 <Proteus_> really?
Oct 02 17:42:31 <zhobbs> I like kpdf
Oct 02 17:42:35 <Proteus_> yah
Oct 02 17:42:40 <Proteus_> I second kpdf
Oct 02 17:42:50 <jasta> yeah i dont find the alternatives bad at all
Oct 02 17:42:53 <f00f-> i havent used kpdf, but the other ones are pretty basic in terms of navigating a TOC in a PDF
Oct 02 17:42:55 <jasta> evince and kpdf are both quite nice
Oct 02 17:43:10 <jasta> evince is GNOME-esque so totally simple and not enough features for me
Oct 02 17:43:11 <f00f-> evince is very bare, i use it when i have no choice
Oct 02 17:43:13 <jasta> but kpdf is what you'd expect
Oct 02 17:43:37 <jasta> anyway, i don't get why FLASH sin't ported to mobile browsers
Oct 02 17:43:45 <jasta> it makes absolutely no sense, and i want to know what the hell Adobe is thinking
Oct 02 17:43:54 <f00f-> jasta: they're pushing Flash Lite
Oct 02 17:44:09 <muthu_> jasta: flash is not welcome
Oct 02 17:44:25 <Proteus_> is ms pushing their flash takeoff in the mobile world?
Oct 02 17:44:50 <muthu_> adobe's best bet is android
Oct 02 17:45:23 <jasta> muthu_: it's not "welcome"?
Oct 02 17:45:38 <Proteus_> muthu_, that's a strong statement - what leads you to that conclusion?
Oct 02 17:45:47 <zhobbs> romainguy_: so you think I can get jhat working with those heap dumps?
Oct 02 17:45:47 <jasta> f00f-: but isn't Flash Lite not really a browser component but just some lame UI toolkit layered on top of mobile platforms?
Oct 02 17:46:09 <muthu_> i meant, the mobile o/s so far might not have given them a red carpet welcome to roll out flash
Oct 02 17:46:15 <tethridge> Last night I played around with the emulator surfing some web pages and I have to say that the default behavior is very frustrating.  I don't know why they didn't zoom out and show the whole page by default.
Oct 02 17:46:27 <tethridge> I hope there will soon be a setting to correct that
Oct 02 17:46:36 <f00f-> jasta: it's Flash *for* mobile platforms, same citizenship status as Java ME on a phone, for example
Oct 02 17:46:37 <zhobbs> flash is pretty annoying on a large screen with lots of CPU power, seems like it'd be even more annoying on a small screen/slow CPU
Oct 02 17:47:09 <f00f-> i'm pretty sure the Flash supported in the S60 browser is Flash Lite
Oct 02 17:47:33 <Proteus_> zhobbs, just a few flash ads brings some of my systems to a crawl
Oct 02 17:49:03 <Proteus_> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/f31003bbed8bf7a9/     has anyone else managed to get c++ apps running?
Oct 02 17:49:40 <jasta> Proteus_: yes, lots of people
Oct 02 17:49:50 <Proteus_> how do I go about doing that?
Oct 02 17:49:55 <jasta> but being not supported, you shouldn't spend a lot of energy developing a real app this way until the native SDK is released.
Oct 02 17:50:04 <Proteus_> ah
Oct 02 17:50:35 <Proteus_> a native sdk would be nice - are you aware of any release dates for this?
Oct 02 17:50:50 <jasta> no, it was only very recently mentioned.
Oct 02 17:50:54 <jasta> but it is allegedly in the works
Oct 02 17:51:46 <Proteus_> interesting
Oct 02 17:53:32 <f00f-> does anyone know of any interesting android-related open-source projects not revolving around multimedia?
Oct 02 17:53:41 <jasta> lol
Oct 02 17:53:52 <jasta> you're just sick of hearing me talk, aren't you? :)
Oct 02 17:54:46 <jasta> f00f-: i wrote a solitaire engine, but it needs some work before it can be released
Oct 02 17:54:58 <jasta> freecell and klondike are supported at the moment...
Oct 02 17:56:38 <pjv> f00f, sure I'm working on several open source projects, address me privately if you want to know more
Oct 02 17:57:25 <f00f-> yeah i'm just exploring some non-game/non-media/non-fun apps/concepts
Oct 02 17:57:25 <jasta> pjv: link?
Oct 02 17:58:17 <pjv> jasta, heh Is it ok if I give you the link tomorrow? I think I'll have one app at a decent state then
Oct 02 17:58:37 <jasta> well, i just want to explore
Oct 02 17:59:07 <jasta> what are they at least?
Oct 02 17:59:39 <pjv> long-term open-source projects
Oct 02 18:00:03 <pjv> more supportive than apps by themselves
Oct 02 18:00:33 <pjv> also more like domain objects or reusable components
Oct 02 18:00:52 <pjv> rather than using multimedia or maps or whatever (well they will have a ui of their own)
Oct 02 18:02:10 <jasta> but...what. are. they? :)
Oct 02 18:02:29 <pjv> :) tomorrow
Oct 02 18:02:47 <jasta> is your open source project a secret? :)
Oct 02 18:03:13 <pjv> actually no, they have public project pages, so you should be able to google them ;-)
Oct 02 18:03:39 <pjv> it's just, that they are in the idea state, and it's just myself who has started them
Oct 02 18:03:48 <pjv> so they are by no means "living" projects yet
Oct 02 18:03:55 <f00f-> okay understood
Oct 02 18:04:08 <f00f-> do you see value in a slippy map that's not backed by google maps data?
Oct 02 18:04:56 <pjv> I'm not keeping them a secret, I'm just keeping them to myself as I don't think they are worth your time to "explore" (at least not if you are not offering to join in)
Oct 02 18:05:04 <pjv> atm that is
Oct 02 18:05:22 <pjv> f00f, whats slippy?
Oct 02 18:05:56 <f00f-> like Maps on android
Oct 02 18:05:57 <wastrel> like google maps
Oct 02 18:06:04 <wastrel> you can slide them in all directions
Oct 02 18:06:07 <wastrel> <3 slippy maps
Oct 02 18:06:37 <pjv> f00f, sure, but seems like a hell of a commitment if you have no guarantees as to providing the map data
Oct 02 18:06:50 <f00f-> OpenStreetMap
Oct 02 18:08:09 <greudin> OMG JOO STOLE MY IDEA
Oct 02 18:08:12 <greudin> :)
Oct 02 18:08:15 <pjv> it certainly is a "good" idea
Oct 02 18:08:37 <f00f-> but?
Oct 02 18:08:37 <f00f-> :)
Oct 02 18:08:43 <pjv> but how feasible?
Oct 02 18:09:10 <pjv> I'm thinking several months of work just to get the basics and more than one person
Oct 02 18:09:20 <pjv> but then again I don't know much about the maps
Oct 02 18:09:36 <greudin> north south east west : thats all
Oct 02 18:10:16 <f00f-> tile loading, caching, slippyness, that's basically it
Oct 02 18:10:26 <f00f-> not like Maps, just a basic MapView
Oct 02 18:10:36 <pjv> hmm, I already finished an Android project some months ago that used the maps quite intensively and things were certainly not as easy as they seemed
Oct 02 18:10:39 <herriojr> where can I view the logs of this chat?
Oct 02 18:11:10 <f00f-> google for jasta, muthu, f00f-, etc.
Oct 02 18:11:30 <pjv> if you want to supply positions, you'll have to provide an ellipsoid model for instance
Oct 02 18:11:46 <greudin> ellipsoid model ?
Oct 02 18:11:58 <f00f-> positions of?
Oct 02 18:12:13 <f00f-> you will need geo coordinates to screen coordinates mapping, of course
Oct 02 18:12:37 <herriojr> ah, today's logs aren't up yet
Oct 02 18:14:21 <Proteus_> my understanding is that Dalvik doesn't use JIT - what functions are hardest hit in terms of performance? Anecdotal evidence is fine, but a list with some charts would be great
Oct 02 18:15:00 <f00f-> agreed. i suspect MapView is a native implementation
Oct 02 18:15:38 <pjv> WGS84 ellipsoid I think is used by google maps (used to be in the android docs, but cant find it right now)
Oct 02 18:16:37 <pjv> ...and even MapView is at the limits of the phone's performance sometimes
Oct 02 18:16:50 <f00f-> oh right WGS84,  yes definitely it is a must
Oct 02 18:17:11 <pjv> not to discourage you, f00f, just to let you know it's more than just a matter of N-E-S-W
Oct 02 18:17:23 <f00f-> i'm pretty happy with MapView's performance both on emulator and in real-life from what i've seen
Oct 02 18:17:28 <pjv> then again, I could be wrong ;-)
Oct 02 18:18:00 <f00f-> yeah, it's totally more than cardinal directions ;)
Oct 02 18:18:37 * summatusmentis should find an app that would be cool on Android
Oct 02 18:20:38 <pjv> I would use it though, and in my developing I would at least leave the choice between Google and OpenStreetMap if possible
Oct 02 18:21:36 <muthu_> anddev has some openstreemap integration
Oct 02 18:23:14 <f00f-> although at the same time, i'm not sure if there would be a reason to use OSM data since Google gives android apps free/nice access to Maps data
Oct 02 18:23:24 <f00f-> not too bad licensing
Oct 02 18:23:53 <Disconnect> summatusmentis: bash / xterm
Oct 02 18:29:17 <summatusmentis> Disconnect: is there no terminal app?
Oct 02 18:29:29 <Disconnect> nope
Oct 02 18:29:41 <Disconnect> and jni isn't supported yet (although reports are that it works)
Oct 02 18:29:44 <summatusmentis> really? and noone is working on one?
Oct 02 18:29:47 <summatusmentis> jni?
Oct 02 18:29:58 <wastrel> java native something :]
Oct 02 18:30:02 <f00f-> interface
Oct 02 18:30:07 <summatusmentis> oh
Oct 02 18:30:30 <f00f-> it'll be JNI-esque i think
Oct 02 18:30:33 <summatusmentis> so I wouldn't be intruding on anyone's work, or anything like that?
Oct 02 18:30:56 * Disconnect is prolly gonna work on it but my last java adventure was 1998ish so.. if its enough to get dropbear sshd started i'll consider that a win
Oct 02 18:32:03 <summatusmentis> hmm
Oct 02 18:32:12 <summatusmentis> I have some Java experience
Oct 02 18:32:21 * summatusmentis 's school forces Java down our throats
Oct 02 18:33:00 <f00f-> i believe romain is the one who leaked JNI news ;)
Oct 02 18:33:10 * Disconnect has modern java books OTW from amazon (..erm, and maybe a couple of torrents)
Oct 02 18:33:19 <f00f-> romainguy: is com.google.maps.whatever.MapView a native app?
Oct 02 18:33:30 <romainguy> MapView is not a native widget
Oct 02 18:33:31 <f00f-> native-backed i mean
Oct 02 18:33:38 <f00f-> okay, great!
Oct 02 18:34:39 <pjv> great!
Oct 02 18:34:49 <summatusmentis> is android dev difficult?
Oct 02 18:35:10 <Disconnect> nearly impossible
Oct 02 18:35:32 <summatusmentis> *rolls eyes* I've not got a lot of dev experience
Oct 02 18:35:34 <summatusmentis> that's all :)
Oct 02 18:36:19 <pjv> summatusmentis, on open-source projects you can alway help out by translating...
Oct 02 18:37:02 <summatusmentis> pjv: I only sort of speak one language worth translating
Oct 02 18:37:35 <pjv> most people do, but chances are many projects would need translating into that language
Oct 02 18:37:36 <summatusmentis> I guess what I'm asking, is the learning curve pretty steep? I did some kernel dev for GSoC this summer, and it kicked my butt, literally all the time
Oct 02 18:37:45 <tomgibara> about the poor quality of Adobe's PDF readers: I understand that the key reason they provide free readers (as MS does for Word) is that it's a requirement by the US Gov. for use as a government document format.
Oct 02 18:37:52 <tomgibara> The requirement is that a free reader is available, not that it's good.
Oct 02 18:37:58 <Disconnect> this is only a virtual android, so the chances of it being able to assault your posterior are low
Oct 02 18:38:21 <Cedric2> Disconnect: nice
Oct 02 18:43:17 * greudin is now playing: Beastie Boys - Alive
Oct 02 18:44:04 <Disconnect> ..thats nice for you?
Oct 02 18:50:27 <f00f-> kernel development is great for your ego
Oct 02 18:50:38 <f00f-> android development will get you more glory in the real world
Oct 02 18:51:07 <f00f-> no offense of course :)
Oct 02 18:51:13 <summatusmentis> f00f-: kernel dev was horrible for my ego, I was really bad at it :)
Oct 02 18:51:49 <f00f-> i remember doing a couple of hello, world kernel modules
Oct 02 18:52:00 <f00f-> the kernel programming howto/cookbook was great
Oct 02 18:52:27 <summatusmentis> I was doing file system stuff, and I didn't have enouch experience
Oct 02 18:55:27 <wastrel> summatusmentis: i'll work on an app with you
Oct 02 18:55:52 <summatusmentis> wastrel: my biggest issue is visualizing a cool app
Oct 02 18:56:05 <f00f-> visualizing?
Oct 02 18:56:07 <f00f-> in your head?
Oct 02 18:56:10 <wastrel> think of 5 things you'd like an app to do -- or 5 apps you like,
Oct 02 18:56:14 <wastrel> then put them all together!
Oct 02 18:56:22 <summatusmentis> I'm kind of a hands on person, and I have difficulty seeing what a device could to without playing with the device, etc.
Oct 02 18:56:28 <summatusmentis> f00f-: yeah, see above
Oct 02 18:56:40 <wastrel> we'll make a horrible huge monster of an app that does a little bit of everything
Oct 02 18:57:17 <summatusmentis> but then noone will use it :)
Oct 02 18:57:38 <f00f-> wastrel: do it. i'll fund you with comments.
Oct 02 18:58:20 <wastrel> first i have to finish the notepad tutorial
Oct 02 18:58:27 <wastrel> summatusmentis: did you do the notepad tutorial?
Oct 02 18:58:47 <summatusmentis> wastrel: I haven't done anything, I downloaded the SDK for the emulator >_>
Oct 02 18:59:20 <summatusmentis> the same reason I had openmoko setup :)
Oct 02 18:59:44 * greudin is now playing: NTM - Le Monde de demain
Oct 02 19:00:15 <wastrel> summatusmentis: do the hello world tutorial then the notepad tutorial
Oct 02 19:00:22 <wastrel> then we'll whip up an irc client :]
Oct 02 19:00:39 <summatusmentis> wastrel: haha, or a terminal app, and ssh into irssi :)
Oct 02 19:02:28 <summatusmentis> there are some cool accelerometer apps that people are doing with openmoko
Oct 02 19:03:00 <wastrel> one of my co-workers got the iphone light saber app and some external speakers
Oct 02 19:03:13 <wastrel> and was jedi-fighting all around.  within a week all the iphone users had the app
Oct 02 19:03:42 <f00f-> nice
Oct 02 19:03:55 <greudin> :)
Oct 02 19:03:55 <summatusmentis> well, like, ope
Oct 02 19:04:13 <summatusmentis> I hit enter in the wrong window
Oct 02 19:04:50 <summatusmentis> no, openmoko has ideas where you can put the phone facedown on the table to put it on silent, for instance
Oct 02 19:04:57 <summatusmentis> or location based ringers
Oct 02 19:05:18 <wastrel> ah that's cool
Oct 02 19:06:00 <summatusmentis> or shaking the phone to hear a sloshing sound that tells you how much batter is left
Oct 02 19:06:13 <summatusmentis> or marbles in a tin can as to how many unread text messages
Oct 02 19:07:15 <wastrel> those are kuhl
Oct 02 19:07:28 <f00f-> summatusmentis: samir had that
Oct 02 19:07:29 <f00f-> for symbian
Oct 02 19:07:31 <f00f-> using accelerometer
Oct 02 19:07:34 <f00f-> already works on N95
Oct 02 19:07:38 <f00f-> for past few months
Oct 02 19:07:48 <summatusmentis> I don't think it's a new idea, it's still cool
Oct 02 19:08:06 <summatusmentis> the accelerometer really interests me
Oct 02 19:09:20 <wastrel> write a hack that will let me go into landscape without opening the keyboard
Oct 02 19:09:22 <wastrel> :]
Oct 02 19:09:42 <summatusmentis> it can't do taht?
Oct 02 19:09:44 <summatusmentis> that*
Oct 02 19:10:09 <f00f-> wastrel: i was really expecting that
Oct 02 19:10:27 <summatusmentis> is there a listing anywhere of what people are working on, what the phone can/can't don?
Oct 02 19:10:31 <summatusmentis> do*
Oct 02 19:10:40 <summatusmentis> s/phone/android/
Oct 02 19:10:45 <f00f-> no
Oct 02 19:10:51 <f00f-> this channel -->
Oct 02 19:10:55 <f00f-> has everything
Oct 02 19:11:03 <summatusmentis> I see
Oct 02 19:11:06 <f00f-> all the important people, projects, etc.
Oct 02 19:11:16 <f00f-> i'd check anddev.org
Oct 02 19:11:18 <summatusmentis> and the useless people like me
Oct 02 19:11:30 <f00f-> and there's a bunch of fanboi sites that list android projects
Oct 02 19:11:42 <summatusmentis> I see
Oct 02 19:11:55 <wastrel> marketplace
Oct 02 19:12:10 <monteslu> can you get to the markeplace with the sdk?
Oct 02 19:12:19 <summatusmentis> not that I know of...
Oct 02 19:12:34 <monteslu> would be cool to pull free stuff down with it
Oct 02 19:12:36 <f00f-> summatusmentis: expect more info about apps in late october
Oct 02 19:12:44 <f00f-> i have a feeling many will release like mad
Oct 02 19:12:58 <Cedric2> summatusmentis: Market is still white list only, but you won't have much more to wait
Oct 02 19:12:59 <summatusmentis> I assume so, but not accessible from emulator, I don't think
Oct 02 19:13:33 * summatusmentis is not buying a G1
Oct 02 19:14:07 <monteslu> why not?
Oct 02 19:14:30 <monteslu> I'm getting one even though there's not SVG support
Oct 02 19:14:59 <summatusmentis> I'm in a contract with Sprint, I'm a poor college student, gsm doesn't work very well where I live, etc. etc.
Oct 02 19:15:15 <wastrel> i'm totally getting one <3
Oct 02 19:15:32 <summatusmentis> I'm waiting on the Sprint android device before I buy
Oct 02 19:15:40 <summatusmentis> if gsm worked, I would, probably
Oct 02 19:16:49 <monteslu> i was already a tmobile customer, linux user, and java developer... all worked out perfectly :)
Oct 02 19:16:51 <amjad> i am a poor graduate summatusmentis
Oct 02 19:17:22 <summatusmentis> monteslu: I'm not that lucky
Oct 02 19:17:40 <summatusmentis> amjad: I just can't justify it, particularly not with all the other factors
Oct 02 19:17:43 <ttuttle> Grumble.
Oct 02 19:17:47 <wastrel> i'm getting one and when the next good android phone comes out i'm giving my wife the g1 and i get the new toy :]
Oct 02 19:17:52 <ttuttle> The wifi in this classroom is sooooo bad that I've switched to WWAN.
Oct 02 19:17:59 <amjad> i am a linux developer, t-mobile customer and was a java developer in my previous life
Oct 02 19:18:26 <amjad> but java and linux are not good friends really
Oct 02 19:19:35 <summatusmentis> now, if someone were to fund it for me... then I'd have no issue buying it :)
Oct 02 19:19:42 <Disconnect> that'd hardly be buying it
Oct 02 19:19:46 <summatusmentis> haha, touche
Oct 02 19:20:32 <monteslu> amjad, huh?
Oct 02 19:20:41 <monteslu> linux and java have been working together well for a long time
Oct 02 19:20:44 <wastrel> i'm learning java
Oct 02 19:20:59 <amjad> java is not open source until openjdk came along
Oct 02 19:21:07 <monteslu> amjad, gcj?
Oct 02 19:21:18 <monteslu> that was available in what '99 ?
Oct 02 19:21:24 <kingkung> hello
Oct 02 19:21:26 <amjad> gcj is evil, i can not get it compile on my gcc ppc
Oct 02 19:21:30 <monteslu> not to mention a handful of other vms
Oct 02 19:21:30 <Cedric2> monteslu: I wouldn't say "well"
Oct 02 19:21:39 <monteslu> give me a break
Oct 02 19:21:46 <monteslu> as well as it did on windows for years
Oct 02 19:21:49 <Cedric2> Nope
Oct 02 19:21:53 <monteslu> how so?
Oct 02 19:21:57 <kingkung> anyone have any experience with in constructing views by passing attributeSets ?
Oct 02 19:22:00 <Cedric2> Java has always worked better and been released earlier on Windows than anywhere else
Oct 02 19:22:07 <Cedric2> I still remember the Blackdown disaster
Oct 02 19:22:07 <Disconnect> solaris
Oct 02 19:22:16 <monteslu> Disconnect++
Oct 02 19:22:17 <kingkung> i.e. using the View(Context context, AttributeSet attrs) constructor
Oct 02 19:23:49 <fadden> Cedric2: Java worked better on Windows than Solaris?
Oct 02 19:24:22 <Cedric2> Always been better integrated to the desktop, Swing/AWT (ok that's a low bar)
Oct 02 19:24:30 <Cedric2> Hotspot came out on Windows and Solaris at the same time too
Oct 02 19:24:44 <kingkung> AttributeSet error
Oct 02 19:24:50 <Cedric2> I'm not 100% positive but I don't think the JDK ever came out on Solaris first and Windows second
Oct 02 19:24:55 <Cedric2> at least Sun got that part right
Oct 02 19:25:05 <kingkung> java.lang.ClassCastException: android.util.XmlPullAttributes
Oct 02 19:25:10 <monteslu> They've been simultaenous since 1.4
Oct 02 19:25:30 <monteslu> your'e thinking of flash or something
Oct 02 19:25:48 <monteslu> or UnrealTournment 3 which I'm still waiting on as promised :)
Oct 02 19:36:05 <Disconnect> lol. "read the faq, its frequently updated" "Will Android run on <insert phone here>? No. There is currently only an Android SDK for the Windows, Mac OS X(intel), and Linux(i386) platforms. The SDK includes a software emulator on which you can test Android applications." ... not that frequently updated after all it seems.
Oct 02 19:41:08 <stadler> Which part of that seems out-of-date?
Oct 02 19:43:46 <Disconnect> the part about it being wrong. "will android run on <insert phone here>?" "yes, for some values of phone. Currently only the G1 from T-mobile can use Android. <Sdk info>"
Oct 02 19:45:19 <kingkung> lol
Oct 02 19:45:46 <tomgibara> I've just published a small open source java library for performing periodic checks for new versions of an application:
Oct 02 19:45:49 <tomgibara> http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/
Oct 02 19:45:49 <jasonlee> huh, is AndroidHttpClient not in android.jar?
Oct 02 19:46:12 <tomgibara> It's no great shakes, and is a bit rushed, but might be useful to others
Oct 02 19:46:16 <kingkung> who knows
Oct 02 19:46:26 <kingkung> hey tom
Oct 02 19:47:09 <tomgibara> kingkung: hi
Oct 02 19:47:14 <kingkung> i have a question about the View(context,attributeSet) constructor
Oct 02 19:47:20 <kingkung> dunno if u can help
Oct 02 19:47:36 <kingkung> i'm trying to understand how to use it
Oct 02 19:47:53 <tomgibara> I've not used it, but if you ask, someone else might be able to help
Oct 02 19:48:01 <tomgibara> Its rare that you would call it yourself
Oct 02 19:48:25 <kingkung> i want to call it to create views from external xmls (leveraging the logic used by the layoutinflater)
Oct 02 19:49:02 <tomgibara> what do you mean by external xmls? You mean retrieved over the network say?
Oct 02 19:49:05 <zhobbs> kingkung: yeah, you can pull info from the xml layout using that AttributeSet
Oct 02 19:49:07 <kingkung> or a service
Oct 02 19:49:07 <kingkung> yes
Oct 02 19:49:19 <zhobbs> ohh...l
Oct 02 19:49:27 <zhobbs> I thought you meant from layout files
Oct 02 19:49:35 <kingkung> i keep getting a ClassCastException error on xml.asAttributeSet()
Oct 02 19:49:58 <kingkung> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/dd182573b0883804
Oct 02 19:50:32 <kingkung> don't understand what i'm doing, if i'm doing anything wrong
Oct 02 19:50:46 <kingkung> it's looking for a class called XmlPullAttributes
Oct 02 19:50:57 <kingkung> but that class looks deprecated from the 0.9 diffs
Oct 02 19:51:10 <kingkung> but i'm not sure if that's the problem or not
Oct 02 19:51:22 * tomgibara reading
Oct 02 19:51:22 <gary|> hey all, im trying to connect to a server using a socket, but it keeps on throwing an unknownHostException. It works fine if I run the socket code normally, any ideas why?
Oct 02 19:53:17 <tomgibara> kingkung: What exactly is throwing the exception? The asAttributeSet method?
Oct 02 19:53:20 <kingkung> yes
Oct 02 19:54:05 <pjv> tomgibara, thanks for publishing the veecheck thing, your site isn't loading atm here, but I'm sure it could be useful for many apps
Oct 02 19:54:18 <pjv> is it Android specific?
Oct 02 19:54:30 <tomgibara> pjv: Odd it is for me - yes android specific
Oct 02 19:55:10 <pjv> could it cope with different sdk versions?
Oct 02 19:55:57 <pjv> so that when 1.1 comes out, it lets you know this app was written for 1.0 (don't think Android does that in a clear way atm)
Oct 02 19:56:30 <tomgibara> pjv: Yes, it can filter on the build id, model and device, in addition to the app. version info
Oct 02 19:56:45 <pjv> I have your site now
Oct 02 19:56:51 <jasta> gary|: how do you mean "run normally"?
Oct 02 19:57:29 * tomgibara writing a quick test app for XmlPullParser
Oct 02 19:57:39 <jasta> i have some XmlPullParser code around
Oct 02 19:57:58 <jasta> though i dont think i was using attributes at all, so nevermind :)
Oct 02 19:58:00 <pjv> well thx tomgibara, sure it'll come in handy
Oct 02 20:07:05 <gary|> sorry jasta, was afk. By normal I mean in a normal java vm, not in the emulator
Oct 02 20:07:30 <jasta> gary|: do you have special proxy or DNS considerations?
Oct 02 20:07:44 <gary|> nope, nothing special
Oct 02 20:07:46 <jasta> UnknownHostException is a DNS failure
Oct 02 20:07:51 * kingkung thanks tomgibara
Oct 02 20:07:56 <gary|> i know, but it works fine in the java vm
Oct 02 20:07:57 <jasta> or more generally, a name resolution failure
Oct 02 20:08:04 <gary|> it just doesnt resolve in the emulator
Oct 02 20:08:28 <jasta> gary|: try to hit the address in the browser
Oct 02 20:08:36 <jasta> to confirm that its the emulators network stack thats causing the issue
Oct 02 20:10:07 <gary|> the thing is it's not a http/s connection, an irc one
Oct 02 20:12:05 <tomgibara> kingkung: I'm definitely seeing some
Oct 02 20:12:10 <tomgibara> thing odd
Oct 02 20:12:28 <tomgibara> but your code doesn't make sense to me either
Oct 02 20:12:45 <jasta> gary|: so, the host resolution has to happen all the same
Oct 02 20:12:58 <tomgibara> kingkung: you are pulling the whole document in, and then trying to obtain attributes from it
Oct 02 20:13:08 <gary|> btw, it cant even connect to port 80 via the socket in the emulator
Oct 02 20:13:33 <fadden> Does your app have the INTERNET permission?
Oct 02 20:14:13 <tomgibara> kingkung: I would anticipate that it is failing because the END_DOCUMENT event has no attributes.
Oct 02 20:14:47 <gary|> oh damn, forgot about that
Oct 02 20:18:55 <jasta> ahh yes, fadden has a point
Oct 02 20:18:58 <jasta> gary|: check adb logcat ;)
Oct 02 20:20:28 <kingkung> well i actually tried creating the view in each event iteration
Oct 02 20:20:59 <kingkung> (put the try-catch block into the while loop)
Oct 02 20:21:04 <kingkung> and it threw an exception every time
Oct 02 20:21:18 <kingkung> even when the attribute count was 4 (on event=START_TAG)
Oct 02 20:21:57 <tomgibara> kingkung: As I anticipated, it's not the call to asAttributeSet which is throwing the cast exception (what made you think it was?) its the call to the view constructor
Oct 02 20:22:41 <kingkung> tomgibara: yeah, i said that wrong
Oct 02 20:22:53 <kingkung> tomgibara: but did you get it to successfully create a view?
Oct 02 20:23:13 <kingkung> tomgibara: the constructor seems to be throwing an exception no matter what
Oct 02 20:28:05 <tomgibara> kingkung: Since Google have stubbed out the methods and I can't see the bytecode, I don't know why the View constructor is complaining, but you are aware that this code would only ever construct vanilla View objects?
Oct 02 20:28:36 <kingkung> vanilla view objects as in without listeners/handlers?
Oct 02 20:28:50 <jasta> tomgibara: just look at 0.9r1, it's pretty similar :)
Oct 02 20:29:13 <kingkung> cuz textviews can have text in the xml
Oct 02 20:29:43 <kingkung> and images can be passed through
Oct 02 20:31:42 <tomgibara> jasta: good point!
Oct 02 20:32:15 <wastrel> stub
Oct 02 20:32:23 <tomgibara> kingkung: I mean that it will only construct View views, not ImageViews or TextViews or anything else.
Oct 02 20:33:07 <kingkung> yeah, this isn't final code
Oct 02 20:33:23 <kingkung> i will have a switch statement that calls the correct constructor
Oct 02 20:35:07 <jasta> tomgibara: thats what ive been doing :)
Oct 02 20:37:43 <ttuttle> greetings
Oct 02 20:39:45 <gary|> gah, this still isnt work. I added the permission to the manifest, now it just sits there and the log says activity timed out
Oct 02 20:52:31 * umdk1d3 hangs out in sjc airport
Oct 02 20:53:08 <Disconnect> with a g1?
Oct 02 20:54:05 <umdk1d3> with a laptop
Oct 02 20:55:00 <Disconnect> :(
Oct 02 20:57:35 <gary|> any ideas why trying to open a socket connection freezes my app :(
Oct 02 20:57:47 <gary|> i added the uses-permission and now it does that
Oct 02 20:57:56 <gary|> before it would just say unknown host
Oct 02 20:58:03 <jasta> gary|: did you add uses-permission before <application> (outside of it)
Oct 02 20:58:10 <jasta> thats a really common mistake because its so poorly documented
Oct 02 20:58:10 <gary|> yeah
Oct 02 20:58:12 <romainguy> gary|: are you blocking the UI thread?
Oct 02 20:58:34 <jasta> oh yes, obviously, romainguy is right.  you can't starve the main thread.
Oct 02 20:58:36 <gary|> layout is set before i open the connection
Oct 02 20:58:45 <jasta> doesn't matter, you can't ever starve the main thread.
Oct 02 20:58:57 <gary|> so i need to open the socket as another thread?
Oct 02 20:59:01 <romainguy> that's right
Oct 02 20:59:31 <jasta> gary|: there are lots of examples of this in ApiDemos and android-apps
Oct 02 20:59:36 <fadden> You might be able to swing a non-blocking connect, but it's easier to use a "worker" thread all things considered.
Oct 02 21:01:46 <romainguy> http://mrdoob.com/lab/youtube/superHD/ \o/
Oct 02 21:03:41 <umdk1d3> ROFL @ utube
Oct 02 21:09:15 <jasta> romainguy: i noticed you used thread priority in your Photostream app, do you know if that's implemented well on Android's kernel?
Oct 02 21:10:27 <romainguy> it is, if you use the Process.setThreadPriority() API
Oct 02 21:10:36 <pjv> how can I change a preference's summary (in a PreferenceActivity) after onCreate()?
Oct 02 21:10:57 <pjv> I am doing pref.setSummary(...) but nothing changes in the UI
Oct 02 21:22:49 <pjv> The only thing I can find is the AdvancedPreferences sample, but they use the two summaries of a CheckBoxPreference to switch
Oct 02 21:28:28 <jasta> i have a stupid Java question...
Oct 02 21:29:06 <jasta> is it legal and wise to store an exception from a catch block to be thrown later outside that block?
Oct 02 21:29:23 <Cedric2> You mean wrapping exceptions?
Oct 02 21:29:26 <jasta> no
Oct 02 21:29:51 <jasta> i am attempting to bind to a port within a range, but i just keep trying until i exhaust every port in the range
Oct 02 21:29:59 <jasta> if i exhaust, i throw the last bind exception i got
Oct 02 21:30:22 <jasta> so it would be a look where i catch the exception and store it to last, then outside the loop throw last;
Oct 02 21:30:30 <Cedric2> This particular situation sounds reasonable, the overall idea... not
Oct 02 21:30:47 <jasta> how do you mean?
Oct 02 21:31:11 <Cedric2> When you catch an exception and you don't want to throw it, you usually wrap it and bubble up a higher level exception
Oct 02 21:31:22 <Cedric2> you usually never throw the deep exception further down
Oct 02 21:32:27 <jasta> well if my situation sounds reasonable, how should i accomplish this?
Oct 02 21:32:33 <jasta> syntactically it seems legal.
Oct 02 21:32:46 <jasta> at least, javac seems to think so
Oct 02 21:33:00 <Cedric2> Store the latest exception you had and after a certain number, throw it
Oct 02 21:33:04 <fadden> It's legal; it's just a little funky to see an exception stack trace that isn't from the point of the throw.
Oct 02 21:33:30 <Cedric2> Even in your situation, you might want to throw a higher level exception
Oct 02 21:33:37 <jasta> Cedric2: i could implement the tail part of my loop in the catch block
Oct 02 21:33:40 <Cedric2> such as "Couldn't find a free port between 8000 and 8800"
Oct 02 21:34:00 <jasta> yes, possibly a better idea
Oct 02 21:35:30 <Cedric2> Typically, exception wrapping is performed at the boundaries of domains
Oct 02 21:35:39 <jasta> i think i have a better strategy anyway
Oct 02 21:36:30 <Cedric2> Note that you can create a ServerSocket on port 0 and the JDK will find a free port for you
Oct 02 21:36:37 <jasta> i know that
Oct 02 21:36:49 <jasta> i want a predictable range on purpose
Oct 02 21:37:01 <Cedric2> Ok
Oct 02 21:37:22 <jasta> i think there is a particular exception for address already in use
Oct 02 21:37:46 <jasta> and i could just catch that so that any unexpected exception will abort execution immediately
Oct 02 21:37:51 <jasta> so no need to try a bunch of ports that all wont work
Oct 02 21:38:09 <pjv> found a bug about the preferences I was talking about above
Oct 02 21:38:10 <jasta> then if that fails, use a special exception that just says "Address in use for all ports between x and y"
Oct 02 21:38:59 <pjv> some unreliable behaviour with PreferenceScreen.setSummary(..)
Oct 02 21:42:05 <Terdhex> Hi All, dos anybody have an email sample application for 0.9 or 1.0?
Oct 02 21:52:32 * pjv is terrible at filing bug reports
Oct 02 21:53:55 * Disconnect is good at it, you should send me a g1 and tell me what the bug is, i'll file it.
Oct 02 21:54:40 * benley fishes out a g1 that can't run the current os anymore and wonders what to do with it
Oct 02 21:54:40 * jasta has an embarrassingly long rap sheet on the issue list :)
Oct 02 21:58:22 <Disconnect> benley: older hw rev?
Oct 02 21:58:27 <benley> yeah.
Oct 02 21:58:47 <Disconnect> save it a few years, then donate it to a museum. (no, seriously.) or ebay it for $1k+.
Oct 02 21:59:01 <Disconnect> or port android over to the old hw
Oct 02 21:59:19 <f00f-> benley: you have a Sooner?
Oct 02 21:59:33 <benley> yeah
Oct 02 21:59:50 <f00f-> it reminds me of the blackberry bold
Oct 02 21:59:56 <f00f-> abusrdly tiny screen!
Oct 02 22:00:01 <f00f-> 320x240 ?
Oct 02 22:00:04 <benley> I'm not selling any of these, I'm pretty sure that would be a rather direct violation of some sort of rules
Oct 02 22:00:37 <Disconnect> prolly
Oct 02 22:01:55 <Disconnect> doesn't run the new os like its not ported, or like its just got some serious compatibility issue? (too low-res, or no reasonable input method, etc)
Oct 02 22:02:12 <benley> not enough ram, etc
Oct 02 22:02:47 <Disconnect> ah :(
Oct 02 22:08:25 <gary|> nn
Oct 02 22:27:04 <herriojr> kingkung: there are two different parsers that are used android.content.res.XmlBlock$Parser and KXmlParser
Oct 02 22:28:01 <herriojr> KXmlParser is the default you get from XmlPullParserFactory.newInstance()
Oct 02 22:28:26 <herriojr> and the primer is from getResources.getLayout()
Oct 02 22:28:48 <f00f-> interesting
Oct 02 22:28:58 <f00f-> not using MXPP1
Oct 02 22:29:00 <romainguy> benley fishes out a g1 that can't run the current os anymore and wonders what to do with it << I have a bunch of those ^^
Oct 02 22:29:07 <f00f-> kxml isn't bad from the benches i've seen
Oct 02 22:29:16 <jasta> romainguy: why can't it run the current OS?
Oct 02 22:29:43 <romainguy> bunch of reasons :)
Oct 02 22:30:03 <jasta> like what? :)
Oct 02 22:30:41 <chouman82> quick question
Oct 02 22:30:43 <benley> old hardware.
Oct 02 22:30:58 <chouman82> if i want to open a brwoser to a specific url within an activity
Oct 02 22:31:06 <herriojr> so it seems that kxml is doing some type of illegal cast when you pass it into Xml.asAttributeSet()
Oct 02 22:31:27 <herriojr> what are the xml parsers that implement the XmlPullParser interface?
Oct 02 22:31:27 <chouman82> don't i just do Intent(Intent.ACTION_WEV_SEARCH, "http:www.google.com")?
Oct 02 22:31:35 <chouman82> and then start the activity with the intent?
Oct 02 22:31:35 <f00f-> http://www.google.com/
Oct 02 22:31:42 <jasta> chouman82: no, just fire an intent with data http://www.wherever.com/
Oct 02 22:31:46 <jasta> no need to make it a search
Oct 02 22:31:50 <romainguy> ACTION_VIEW
Oct 02 22:31:54 <chouman82> oh ok
Oct 02 22:31:55 <romainguy> not WEB_SEARCH
Oct 02 22:31:57 <chouman82> wat's the web search for then
Oct 02 22:32:04 <jasta> chouman82: for doing web searches
Oct 02 22:32:10 <chouman82> haha
Oct 02 22:32:11 <chouman82> ok
Oct 02 22:34:50 <herriojr> hence the error java.lang.ClassCastException: android.util.XmlPullAttributes
Oct 02 22:41:38 <herriojr> so some how the two different pull parsers are incompatible when converting to an attributeset, and it has to do with kxml using a deprecated class
Oct 02 22:41:45 <herriojr> was this meant to not work?
Oct 02 22:41:58 <Cedric2> It's pretty common for XML parsers to cause classloading problems when they are on the classpath
Oct 02 22:43:18 <herriojr> how would I go about removing it from the classpath?  It isn't something I implement
Oct 02 22:44:43 <herriojr> I'm assuming XmlPullAttributes is incompatible being cast to an AttributesSet, which is the only thing I can think of
Oct 02 22:45:35 <herriojr> *AttributeSet
Oct 02 22:47:29 <herriojr> did Google purposely not want views to be created from XML not stored in the res/layout directory?
Oct 02 22:47:31 <tomgibara> romainguy: The documentation states that a URL can be passed to WEB_SEARCH to open the site
Oct 02 22:47:42 <tomgibara> I tried it and the browser died with a NPE
Oct 02 22:47:49 <romainguy> then the documentation is wrong :)
Oct 02 22:48:54 <tomgibara> :) Yeah I guessed that when it died - perhaps it was only half decommisioned
Oct 02 22:49:19 <herriojr> well, nvm, there's always the round-about-way of building it yourself from xml
Oct 02 22:49:30 <herriojr> it's just a pain to reinvent the wheel :)
Oct 02 22:56:27 <herriojr> where do I submit bugs?
Oct 02 22:56:46 <f00f-> issue tracker
Oct 02 23:02:37 <chouman82> did they take out LocationManager.getCurrentLocation?
Oct 02 23:05:02 <cbeust_> No, you get the location manager differently now
Oct 02 23:05:08 <cbeust_> don't have the API handy though
Oct 02 23:05:20 <pjv> heat, http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
Oct 02 23:05:22 <f00f-> getSystemService(LOCATION_SERVICE)
Oct 02 23:05:23 <zhobbs> chouman82: yes, you need to register a location listener now
Oct 02 23:05:24 <f00f-> or something
Oct 02 23:05:29 <cbeust_> There you go
Oct 02 23:06:03 <pjv> *heat -> herriojr
Oct 02 23:07:13 <chouman82> what provider would i use with the requestUpdatlocation?
Oct 02 23:08:05 <zhobbs> whichever one you want
Oct 02 23:14:00 <jasta> ironically, using aoss emulator -audio-out oss is the most reliable way i've found to use audio with the emulator :)
Oct 02 23:14:26 <jasta> forcing it to use OSS then emulating OSS with an ALSA wrapper
Oct 02 23:14:53 <jasta> for some reason -audio-out alsa does not work well.  if any other program is using alsa at the time it won't open.  if the emulator opens first, no other player can open it.
Oct 02 23:14:57 <jasta> it gets an exclusive lock for some reason
Oct 02 23:15:02 <jasta> with aoss it can't
Oct 02 23:49:50 <jasta> hey Dougie187
Oct 02 23:50:55 <Dougie187> hey jas
Oct 02 23:51:01 <Dougie187> jasta:
Oct 02 23:51:02 <Dougie187> ...
Oct 02 23:51:08 <Dougie187> hows it going?
Oct 02 23:54:47 <zhobbs> what is the folder /data/data/<package>/app_thumbnails for?
Oct 02 23:59:21 <jasta> good ;)
Oct 03 01:10:22 <umdk1d3> yay /me snags wifi in seatac
Oct 03 01:11:23 <wastrel> what's seatac?
Oct 03 01:11:33 <jasta> umdk1d3: you're in seattle?
Oct 03 01:11:52 <umdk1d3> jasta: yea for like an hour or so
Oct 03 01:12:07 <jasta> oh, crazy.  were you here or just connecting?
Oct 03 01:12:13 <umdk1d3> connecting
Oct 03 01:12:32 <unix_infidel> umdk1d3: on your way back from mountain view?
Oct 03 01:12:35 <jasta> i live in Seattle, if you didnt know :)
Oct 03 01:13:10 <jasta> what flight connects at Seatac i wonder?
Oct 03 01:16:10 <umdk1d3> so yea the at+t guy gave me all sorts of grief when i added unlim data to my nokia 6xxx series crapphone
Oct 03 01:16:54 <bricode> jasta: SJC->SEA
Oct 03 01:20:53 <ttuttle> hey, does anyone have a closed-captioned feed of the debate?
Oct 03 01:20:59 <ttuttle> er, wrong channel
Oct 03 01:22:32 <wastrel> are you deaf?
Oct 03 01:22:46 <ttuttle> No.
Oct 03 01:22:50 <ttuttle> I'm in a quiet computer lab.
Oct 03 01:22:53 <wastrel> ah
Oct 03 01:22:58 <ttuttle> Yeah.
Oct 03 01:23:11 <ttuttle> Most of the students want to watch it, but the other TAs complained.
Oct 03 01:23:32 <wastrel> don't you people have tv lounges?
Oct 03 01:23:51 <ttuttle> Yes, but most of the students want to watch the debate as they code on the lab machines.
Oct 03 01:24:07 <wastrel> codon
Oct 03 01:28:54 <swetland> I have nonfunctional audio on this box
Oct 03 01:28:59 <swetland> so a cc feed would be nifty
Oct 03 01:30:24 <wastrel> those would have to be some pro typists to be transcribing on the fly
Oct 03 01:31:39 <wastrel> maybe get like 10 people typing and choose the consensus output as they type
Oct 03 02:13:50 <minerale> god, answer the frickin question, Palin
Oct 03 02:13:59 <minerale> stop shouting out to middle schools
Oct 03 02:22:47 <muthu> oyyo
Oct 03 02:23:12 <muthu> idly yummm
Oct 03 02:30:39 * benley finds the vp debates difficult to listen to
Oct 03 02:31:02 <wastrel> all debates
Oct 03 02:31:14 <benley> this one is particularly obnoxious
Oct 03 02:31:22 <wastrel> lie, lie, pander, pander, america, lie, pander, america
Oct 03 02:31:26 <benley> (I tivod it and am an hour delayed)
Oct 03 02:31:34 <muthu> how's palin doing?
Oct 03 02:31:53 <benley> she sounds like a character from Fargo
Oct 03 02:32:11 <muthu> hmm
Oct 03 02:54:17 <Adamant> wastrel: they're all pretty much that way.
Oct 03 02:55:04 <benley> omgwtf.  palin says "Nukular"
Oct 03 02:55:15 <wastrel> so does bush
Oct 03 02:55:19 <wastrel> i think all republicans do
Oct 03 02:55:33 <Adamant> McCain doesn't
Oct 03 02:55:42 <wastrel> maverick
Oct 03 02:55:53 <Adamant> Change and Hope and Especially Change
Oct 03 02:56:02 <Adamant> did I mention change?
Oct 03 02:56:56 <Adamant> anyway. it is too much to ask for a US presidential candidate in favor of a balanced budget?
Oct 03 02:56:58 * ttuttle will Change Everything (TM).  TTUTTLE FOR PRESIDENT!
Oct 03 02:57:23 <ttuttle> (Also I will outlaw Windows Mobile.)
Oct 03 02:57:25 <wastrel> clinton balanced the budget
Oct 03 02:57:29 <Adamant> or that will start paying down the insane debt we've been racking up?
Oct 03 02:58:13 <Adamant> wastrel: both Obama's and McCain's proposed budgets will increase the debt
Oct 03 02:58:34 <Adamant> Obama's by 3.5 trillion, McCain's by ~1 trillion
Oct 03 02:58:50 <wastrel> i saw different numbers
Oct 03 02:59:17 <Adamant> do these numbers say that either will balance the budget?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 03 02:59:57 2008