**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 03 02:59:57 2008
Oct 03 03:00:48 <Adamant> it's like choosing between getting a sucking chest wound and having 4 of your fingers hanging on by the skin, financially.
Oct 03 03:00:58 <Adamant> can't we choose neither>
Oct 03 03:01:00 <Adamant> ?
Oct 03 03:02:29 <f00f-> 21:59 @f00f palin wasn't sure how to pronounce nuclear
Oct 03 03:02:29 <f00f-> 22:00 @f00f i thought i heard her say nuclear once, but mostly nucular
Oct 03 03:36:37 <muthu> is there a toggle preference?
Oct 03 03:36:45 <f00f-> yeah
Oct 03 03:36:50 <f00f->  checkbox
Oct 03 03:36:54 <muthu> no toggle
Oct 03 03:36:58 <f00f-> checkbox?
Oct 03 03:37:03 <muthu> toggle
Oct 03 03:37:20 <muthu> on/off
Oct 03 03:37:29 <f00f-> conceptually that is a checkbox
Oct 03 03:37:39 <muthu> yeah, but toggle looks good
Oct 03 03:37:52 <f00f-> well
Oct 03 03:37:54 <f00f-> yes
Oct 03 03:37:57 <f00f-> there is an on/off
Oct 03 03:37:58 <f00f-> with a green light
Oct 03 03:38:09 <f00f-> dare i pull out the code
Oct 03 03:38:12 * f00f- checks
Oct 03 03:38:19 <muthu> right the same thing
Oct 03 03:38:27 <muthu> can it be used with preferences?
Oct 03 03:38:36 <f00f->     <YesNoPreference
Oct 03 03:38:36 <f00f->             android:key="default_yesno"
Oct 03 03:38:36 <f00f->             android:defaultValue="true"
Oct 03 03:38:36 <f00f->             android:title="@string/title_yesno_preference"
Oct 03 03:38:36 <f00f->             android:summary="@string/summary_yesno_preference"
Oct 03 03:38:38 <f00f->             android:dialogTitle="@string/dialog_title_yesno_preference" />
Oct 03 03:38:42 <muthu> great!!
Oct 03 03:38:50 <muthu> thx bud
Oct 03 03:38:55 <f00f-> you bet
Oct 03 03:38:56 <muthu> let me copy, paste
Oct 03 03:39:20 <muthu> where you get that?
Oct 03 03:39:30 <f00f-> i stole it from ApiDemos
Oct 03 03:39:35 <muthu> i'm checking..
Oct 03 03:39:36 <muthu> not found
Oct 03 03:39:48 <f00f-> i hacked into google.com and stole it?
Oct 03 03:39:51 <f00f-> i don't remember really
Oct 03 03:39:53 <muthu> ha
Oct 03 03:40:14 <f00f-> but it doesn't look all that better iirc
Oct 03 03:40:27 <muthu> hmm
Oct 03 03:40:27 <f00f-> you let me know how it is versus a checkbox
Oct 03 03:40:38 <muthu> its not in apidemos
Oct 03 03:40:42 <muthu> you hacked it
Oct 03 03:41:00 <f00f-> sux4me
Oct 03 03:41:08 <muthu> hey!
Oct 03 03:41:18 <muthu> there's not YesNoPreference class
Oct 03 03:42:01 <f00f-> wtf
Oct 03 03:42:09 <muthu> they removed in 1.0
Oct 03 03:42:30 <muthu> it must be a style attribute for checkbox
Oct 03 03:42:48 <f00f-> yes, that would make more sense
Oct 03 03:43:00 <muthu> not sure which attribute
Oct 03 03:46:44 <muthu> anyone know on/off toggle style for checkbox?
Oct 03 03:47:09 <muthu> f00f-: are you launching 22?
Oct 03 03:47:19 <f00f-> muthu: not at this time
Oct 03 03:47:26 <muthu> why?
Oct 03 03:47:32 <muthu> pednav should be cool
Oct 03 03:47:46 <f00f-> it will be, but i need to get a phone to try it on
Oct 03 03:47:52 <f00f-> not going to release something without real-world testing
Oct 03 03:47:54 <f00f-> no way
Oct 03 03:48:01 <muthu> hmmm
Oct 03 03:48:17 <muthu> blame it on google ;)
Oct 03 03:48:23 <f00f-> already did ;)
Oct 03 03:48:41 <muthu> i'll release it with a disclaimer
Oct 03 03:48:53 <f00f-> we're shooting for a november launch
Oct 03 03:49:08 <muthu> any feedback call: android@google.com
Oct 03 03:49:14 <f00f-> he
Oct 03 03:49:15 <f00f-> h
Oct 03 03:49:18 <muthu> hehe
Oct 03 03:49:35 <muthu> or ask the user to send his device for testing.. lol
Oct 03 03:50:09 <muthu> ha.. should be buttonstyletoogle
Oct 03 03:50:12 <muthu> for checkbox
Oct 03 03:50:24 <f00f-> hm
Oct 03 03:51:17 <muthu> i gave up on o/s
Oct 03 03:51:27 <muthu> and decided to write some code instead
Oct 03 03:51:45 <muthu> fedora and ubuntu.. both screwed me l-r, t-b
Oct 03 03:57:25 <muthu> ok, there's a summaryoff/on
Oct 03 04:01:42 <f00f-> umm okay
Oct 03 04:02:06 <muthu> still not sure, where got yesnopreference
Oct 03 04:02:33 <f00f-> check 0.9 or private builds if you still
Oct 03 04:02:34 <f00f-> have
Oct 03 04:02:44 <f00f-> i'm pretty sure i copied it from a sample
Oct 03 04:02:46 <muthu> ok, might be 0.9
Oct 03 04:03:04 <f00f-> yeah there was a Preferences sample
Oct 03 04:03:06 <f00f-> in ApiDemos
Oct 03 04:03:15 <muthu> right, i'm looking at 1.0
Oct 03 04:03:19 <muthu> and yesno is gone
Oct 03 04:03:27 <f00f-> was it stated in the ChangeLog ?
Oct 03 04:03:33 <muthu> let me look
Oct 03 04:04:14 <muthu> no, they don't write anything about samples
Oct 03 04:04:25 <muthu> summary on/off is cool
Oct 03 04:04:29 <muthu> it does the toggle trick
Oct 03 04:23:10 <muthu_> i'm beginning to like the content provider concept
Oct 03 05:00:30 <f00f-> i still haven't hooked on to it
Oct 03 05:23:19 <muthu> how to check if network is on?
Oct 03 05:24:29 <muthu> from a running emulator can we turn on/off network
Oct 03 05:37:07 <muthu> irc testing.. check.. 1 2 3
Oct 03 05:38:03 <mickrobk> check out connectivityManager
Oct 03 05:38:16 <mickrobk> idk if theres any good way to test in the emulator tho
Oct 03 05:38:17 <muthu> what's the service?
Oct 03 05:38:29 <mickrobk> Context.CONNECTIVITY_SERVICE
Oct 03 05:38:33 <muthu> thx
Oct 03 05:38:36 <mickrobk> np
Oct 03 05:38:43 <muthu> what's up rob?
Oct 03 05:38:50 <mickrobk> notalot
Oct 03 05:38:53 <muthu> ready for Androgeddon?
Oct 03 05:38:58 <mickrobk> :\
Oct 03 05:39:06 <mickrobk> yea
Oct 03 05:39:07 <muthu> hehe\
Oct 03 05:39:09 <mickrobk> lotta work tho
Oct 03 05:39:11 <mickrobk> u?
Oct 03 05:39:16 <muthu> getting ready
Oct 03 05:39:25 <muthu> now that 22 is fixed
Oct 03 05:39:29 <muthu> alteast got some motiv
Oct 03 05:39:35 <mickrobk> ive had to take the week off of android to make sure i dont fail out of school...
Oct 03 05:39:42 <mickrobk> but no i can work on android again
Oct 03 05:39:48 <muthu> good
Oct 03 05:39:51 <mickrobk> :) yea it's good to have a date
Oct 03 05:39:51 <muthu> break helps
Oct 03 05:39:55 <mickrobk> yea
Oct 03 05:40:06 <muthu> date break reely helps
Oct 03 05:40:31 <mickrobk> think ur gonna lauch with the phone?
Oct 03 05:40:38 <muthu> yes
Oct 03 05:40:49 <muthu> if the market is open
Oct 03 05:40:55 <muthu> we open to upload
Oct 03 05:41:08 <mickrobk> hopefully they announce more soon
Oct 03 05:41:21 <muthu> hope hope hope
Oct 03 05:41:40 <mickrobk> ive got to figure out if i want to be on other app stores as well
Oct 03 05:41:41 <muthu> hope goog ships gphone to everyone
Oct 03 05:41:52 <muthu> market will rule
Oct 03 05:41:55 <mickrobk> that would be nice :)
Oct 03 05:41:55 <muthu> and may be one other
Oct 03 05:41:59 <muthu> like handango
Oct 03 05:42:12 <mickrobk> yea
Oct 03 05:42:16 <muthu> since market is free, that's where the crowd would be
Oct 03 05:42:32 <mickrobk> i wonder if many will move to handango just b/c of the free thing
Oct 03 05:42:45 <mickrobk> it would make it hard to exist on both for the first bit anyway
Oct 03 05:42:46 <muthu> yup, paid apps will
Oct 03 05:43:01 <muthu> no you can put a premium on handgo
Oct 03 05:43:03 <muthu> free on market
Oct 03 05:43:10 <mickrobk> i suppose the real question is if the customers will migrate
Oct 03 05:43:20 <muthu> this is great for users
Oct 03 05:43:25 <muthu> they can try free on market
Oct 03 05:43:25 <mickrobk> lite version on AM and full on handango
Oct 03 05:43:31 <muthu> then buy on handango
Oct 03 05:43:51 <muthu> if users happy, they buy
Oct 03 05:43:53 <mickrobk> that wouldn't be to bad
Oct 03 05:43:58 <muthu> put ad driven on market
Oct 03 05:44:03 <mickrobk> u know what handango is changing?
Oct 03 05:44:10 <mickrobk> ive got to email that guy back
Oct 03 05:44:10 <muthu> 50/50
Oct 03 05:44:15 <mickrobk> steep
Oct 03 05:44:18 <muthu> developers.handango.com
Oct 03 05:44:24 <f00f-> sux
Oct 03 05:44:28 <muthu> yeah
Oct 03 05:44:29 <f00f-> not worth it
Oct 03 05:44:35 <muthu> 70/30 over a mil
Oct 03 05:44:43 <muthu> 60/30 over 500k
Oct 03 05:44:49 <muthu> 50/50 for anything less
Oct 03 05:45:11 <mickrobk> interesting
Oct 03 05:45:24 <muthu> so pretty much 50-50
Oct 03 05:45:41 <muthu> registered, but yet to look at TOS
Oct 03 05:45:54 <mickrobk> 500k per annum?
Oct 03 05:46:00 <muthu> sales
Oct 03 05:46:13 <muthu> sorry, revenue
Oct 03 05:46:16 <muthu> you're right
Oct 03 05:46:38 <muthu> register, its free
Oct 03 05:46:45 <muthu> just check it out
Oct 03 05:47:02 <muthu> we have atleast 5 different markets now
Oct 03 05:47:21 <mickrobk> is slideME launching with the phone?
Oct 03 05:47:27 <muthu> yeah
Oct 03 05:47:32 <mickrobk> who other than them and handango
Oct 03 05:47:34 <muthu> they're open 22
Oct 03 05:47:42 <mickrobk> (and the official)
Oct 03 05:47:48 <muthu> market, handagno, slideme
Oct 03 05:47:56 <muthu> then found a few others in forum
Oct 03 05:48:08 <muthu> gibara has some sorta updater
Oct 03 05:48:12 <muthu> not sure if that's market
Oct 03 05:48:42 <mickrobk> on his site?
Oct 03 05:48:49 <muthu> yeah
Oct 03 05:50:09 <illuminum> what's the primary android developer's forum, anddev?
Oct 03 05:50:32 <mickrobk> illuminum: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/topics
Oct 03 05:50:32 <muthu> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers
Oct 03 05:50:37 <mickrobk> beat u
Oct 03 05:50:43 <muthu> hehe
Oct 03 05:51:25 <illuminum> google groups is more like a mailing list
Oct 03 05:51:32 <illuminum> i.e. spam-your-inbox model rather than a discussion forum
Oct 03 05:52:07 <muthu> anddev is also popular
Oct 03 05:52:12 <muthu> androidforums.com
Oct 03 05:52:27 <muthu> friendfeed.com/rooms/android
Oct 03 05:52:42 <f00f-> androidzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Oct 03 05:52:43 <muthu> friendfeed will be perfect
Oct 03 05:52:46 <snadge> obama has an iphone app
Oct 03 05:52:57 <snadge> someone needs to contact whomever made that and port it to android ;)
Oct 03 05:52:58 <mickrobk> its a good idea to just put update reminder as a notification, i was planning on spamming the user with a dialog box everytime they opened it
Oct 03 05:53:25 <muthu> notification is the best
Oct 03 05:55:44 <illuminum> offtopic: work is giving me a free macbook pro and i feel like a dirty whore for accepting
Oct 03 05:56:02 <muthu> yeah you are :)
Oct 03 05:56:23 <muthu> reject it and cleanse yourself ;)
Oct 03 05:56:28 <illuminum> i want to see apple burn to the ground but having a platform that'll run software-hoarders apps might have its advantages since they're not going away overnight
Oct 03 05:56:40 <illuminum> my linux laptop is really slow and old :(
Oct 03 05:56:47 <muthu> linux sucks
Oct 03 05:56:52 <muthu> the last 10 days was hell
Oct 03 05:56:57 <illuminum> what do you expect me to run? the hurd?
Oct 03 05:57:05 <muthu> hehe
Oct 03 05:57:18 <muthu> xp
Oct 03 05:57:27 <illuminum> aye
Oct 03 05:59:37 <illuminum> offtopic again: how can I get into google without a formal cs bachelor's. I've got a bachelor's in accountancy and a masters in accountancy/it management coming up in a semester or so, and I do development and info-sys design/management with NCSA
Oct 03 06:00:33 <muthu> are you friends with sergey?
Oct 03 06:00:39 <illuminum> no
Oct 03 06:00:57 <muthu> hmm.. then prolly need to send your resume
Oct 03 06:01:26 <muthu> labs.google.com
Oct 03 06:06:19 <illuminum> aye I suppose so, I was just intimidated by the pre-req cs requirement--probabl difficult to get a resume seen when the ERP is hard-coded around things like that
Oct 03 06:06:45 <illuminum> but whatever, maybe I'll just stick with NCSA and get another degree in CS while i'm here
Oct 03 06:06:54 <muthu> you can try
Oct 03 06:06:56 <muthu> never know
Oct 03 06:08:45 <Adamant> illuminum: have a EE, CE, or Math bachelors
Oct 03 06:09:41 <Adamant> I'm pretty sure Google will take those in lieu for a CS degree. Also Physics. you just have to have evidence you can code.
Oct 03 06:15:18 <muthu> http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/10/02/locale-app-for-android-phones-wouldnt-even-be-possible-on-the-iphone-says-winner-of-275k-developer-challenge/
Oct 03 06:15:30 <muthu> wow!
Oct 03 06:15:32 <muthu> nice team
Oct 03 06:15:47 <muthu> 3 girls, 2 boys
Oct 03 06:16:37 <muthu> simple idea, great execution
Oct 03 06:17:00 <muthu> jasta: check it out
Oct 03 06:27:00 <f00f-> daym
Oct 03 06:28:04 <f00f-> were any of them at I/o ?
Oct 03 06:29:06 <f00f-> 2nd page muthu
Oct 03 06:29:08 <f00f-> of that interview
Oct 03 06:29:13 <f00f-> look at the ON/OFF boxes
Oct 03 06:29:22 <f00f-> that's waht the Yes/No prefernce was like
Oct 03 06:36:16 <muthu> yup
Oct 03 06:38:27 * kaze has returned.. back again ..[gone/21h 53m 25s]
Oct 03 06:48:53 * umdk1d3 home
Oct 03 06:54:02 * kaze is gone.. autoaway after 15 min ..[cyp(l/on.p/on)]
Oct 03 07:26:41 <muthu_> who's the android architect?
Oct 03 07:54:25 <muthu_> who let the droid out?
Oct 03 07:55:59 <gdsx> "routers everywhere"?
Oct 03 07:58:27 <gdsx> Adamant, illuminum: fwiw, I studied Math and Linguistics
Oct 03 07:58:51 <Adamant> gdsx: you work at Google?
Oct 03 07:58:59 <Adamant> Linguistics is another good one
Oct 03 07:59:00 <gdsx> yup; I'm on the Android team
Oct 03 07:59:42 <Adamant> I wonder how they feel about Philosophers who work in the Logic arena.
Oct 03 08:00:33 <muthu_> android = the best mobile development platform
Oct 03 08:00:47 <muthu_> gdsx: who's the architect?
Oct 03 08:00:55 <Adamant> muthu_: for the developer, you can't dispute that, at all.
Oct 03 08:01:00 <muthu_> oh yeah
Oct 03 08:01:09 <muthu_> un beee leeevable
Oct 03 08:01:14 <Adamant> well, maybe if you like OpenMoko
Oct 03 08:01:27 <muthu_> android is as easy as java
Oct 03 08:01:50 <muthu_> android is the php of mobile
Oct 03 08:02:18 <Adamant> muthu_: heh, don't say that
Oct 03 08:02:32 <muthu_> that gets the point across ;)
Oct 03 08:02:38 <Adamant> php has some good points and a lot of very bad ones
Oct 03 08:03:10 <muthu_> ok
Oct 03 08:03:14 <muthu_> android is the vb of mobile
Oct 03 08:03:15 <gdsx> muthu_: that's like asking who the architect of GNU/Linux is.  It's a team effort, and different people designed different pieces
Oct 03 08:03:34 <muthu_> gdsx: the building blocks are great
Oct 03 08:03:47 <Adamant> muthu_: well I associate PHP with "omg if I run this my database server will be dumped to the RBN"
Oct 03 08:03:48 <muthu_> a few of them.. but just enough
Oct 03 08:04:28 <muthu_> there's activity, service, contentprovider
Oct 03 08:04:30 <muthu_> that's it
Oct 03 08:04:35 <muthu_> nice.
Oct 03 08:07:16 <muthu_> is there an inline edit box preference?
Oct 03 08:13:59 <muthu> re
Oct 03 12:10:54 <Dougie187> so.. whats this new market stuff?
Oct 03 12:20:00 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/02/android-market-will-offer-free-trials-but-not-free-bandwidth/
Oct 03 12:20:01 <Dougie187> ?
Oct 03 12:24:38 <monteslu> The last few sentences were difficult to parse.
Oct 03 12:27:52 <muthu_> what? you offer free apps and tmobile charges you
Oct 03 12:28:19 <muthu_> don't think the free apps can survive
Oct 03 12:32:45 <monteslu> I can't see that sticking
Oct 03 12:42:39 <Dougie187> muthu_: i don't think you understood it..
Oct 03 12:42:44 <Dougie187> its not tmobile charges for free apps.
Oct 03 12:42:57 <Dougie187> its tmobile charges for free apps that use more then 15MB of data per month
Oct 03 12:43:07 <muthu_> let me read again..
Oct 03 12:43:23 <Dougie187> and i think the bandwidth they are trying to limit is in app bandwidth
Oct 03 12:43:24 <monteslu> how do they distinguish its an app instead of the browser using bandwith?
Oct 03 12:43:31 <muthu_> Meanwhile, T-Mobile at least will be levying a $2/month fee on developers of free apps expected to use more than the (somewhat arbitrary) amount of 15MB of data per user per month, though how they'll be keeping track of that data outside of their own content stack is unclear -- our guess is that they can'
Oct 03 12:43:31 <Dougie187> so like turn by turn directions.
Oct 03 12:43:31 <monteslu> and why do they care?
Oct 03 12:43:44 <Dougie187> monteslu: thats what they said they don't think they can do that.
Oct 03 12:43:52 <muthu_> per user per month
Oct 03 12:43:55 <muthu_> woah!
Oct 03 12:43:56 <monteslu> very confusing article
Oct 03 12:44:08 <monteslu> "fee on developers"
Oct 03 12:44:12 <Dougie187> monteslu: probably because they get some commission from apps.
Oct 03 12:44:33 <Dougie187> i still think its a cap for in app use.
Oct 03 12:44:45 <Dougie187> not from people downloading free apps from the store.
Oct 03 12:44:46 <Dougie187> but ionno
Oct 03 12:44:50 <Dougie187> it is a very confusing article
Oct 03 12:44:54 <muthu_> this is basically saying, dont give apps for free
Oct 03 12:45:15 <monteslu> maybe they mean 15mb worth of their bandwith in distributing the free apps
Oct 03 12:45:21 <tomgibara> That article is totally without sources - I'll wait until there's some actual news to read.
Oct 03 12:45:41 <monteslu> I'm liking engadet less and less every article I see
Oct 03 12:45:43 <Dougie187> one of the comments below it says that they only charge for apps bought from tmobiles app store.
Oct 03 12:45:46 <Dougie187> not android, but ionno
Oct 03 12:46:10 <Dougie187> "Whether T-Mobile's bandwidth charge is enforceable or not is irrelevant for Android developers. The charge applies only to applications sold via T-Mobile's Applications Store and that store doesn't contain any Android applications - they are specifically excluded! For Android applications, go to other places, such as Google's Android Market. Therefore, no Android developers should be subject to T-Mobile's $2 bandwidth charge - at least for now. E
Oct 03 12:47:15 <muthu_> oh ok
Oct 03 12:47:22 <muthu_> tmobile store will feature only paid apps
Oct 03 12:47:35 <monteslu> I didnt realise there were two stores
Oct 03 12:47:54 <monteslu> I'll make a guess at which one will actually have usage
Oct 03 12:47:57 <monteslu> :)
Oct 03 12:52:11 <muthu_> android market and one more
Oct 03 12:52:16 <muthu_> not sure about the second one
Oct 03 12:53:49 <muthu_> tomgibara: moseycode on 22?
Oct 03 12:55:16 <tomgibara> muthu_: Moseycode late december (earliest)
Oct 03 12:55:49 <muthu_> cool
Oct 03 12:56:36 <muthu_> the non availability of device is pushing the release dates for a lot of apps
Oct 03 12:56:56 <gambler> all us chumps who are going to be peddling or giving away apps should create our own app store
Oct 03 12:58:38 <tomgibara> muthu_: that's true, but how much does that matter?
Oct 03 12:58:48 <tomgibara> It might matter more to the OHA, than us.
Oct 03 12:58:50 <muthu_> it matters in the media
Oct 03 12:59:11 <muthu_> the look at all kinda numbers
Oct 03 12:59:57 <tomgibara> I think the Google/OHA can spin a perfectly reasonable story that you can't judge the success of the platform by the number of apps that are available in the first month
Oct 03 13:01:10 <muthu_> the constant comparison with iphone
Oct 03 13:01:58 <tomgibara> muthu_: People are shortsighted about that... as soon as there are 3/4 phones with android, people won't obsess about that.
Oct 03 13:02:22 <davidw> looking forward to lots of phones being out there
Oct 03 13:02:42 <muthu_> me too
Oct 03 13:03:19 <muthu_> davidw: how's your app coming along?
Oct 03 13:03:23 <pardom> any suggestions on how to search for a contact by number programatically?
Oct 03 13:03:48 <davidw> I just updated Hecl to 1.0 yesterday
Oct 03 13:03:52 <davidw> haven't done a lot otherwise
Oct 03 13:03:58 <muthu_> ok
Oct 03 13:04:50 <muthu_> the user ratings.. can that be scammed?
Oct 03 13:05:08 <muthu_> in the market that is
Oct 03 13:05:10 <tomgibara> why, are you planning to?
Oct 03 13:05:14 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 03 13:05:37 <muthu_> my plan is to first release ;)
Oct 03 13:06:35 <tomgibara> Google have lots of experience with rating systems (amazingly trick in my experience) I hope they can produce a good system.
Oct 03 13:07:11 <tomgibara> *tricky
Oct 03 13:07:13 <muthu_> yeah, but their captchas etc., have been broken
Oct 03 13:07:27 <tomgibara> what's that got to do with it?
Oct 03 13:07:59 <muthu_> hackers will break whatever good system there is
Oct 03 13:08:54 <muthu_> 111111AAAAAAA-mobeegal
Oct 03 13:09:03 <tomgibara> Those are different things, gaming a system is different from hacking a system
Oct 03 13:09:18 <muthu_> yup
Oct 03 13:09:21 <muthu_> would be interesting
Oct 03 13:11:20 <gambler> tomgibara, I just read your moseycode webpage.
Oct 03 13:11:48 <gambler> I think you are describing DNS for objects
Oct 03 13:14:19 <tomgibara> gambler: It's certainly true that the barcode isn't the meat - it's the candy :)
Oct 03 13:14:44 <tomgibara> Yes, the repository of chambers that define the content of the barcodes is key
Oct 03 13:15:09 <yakischloba> i personally found it too abstract to grasp when i glanced at it a few months ago ;)
Oct 03 13:15:09 <gambler> well i hope you take it further. I think alot of app developers would appreciate a well managed alternative to DNS
Oct 03 13:15:21 <tomgibara> It provides much stronger semantics than barcode typically do (limited to URLs, contact details etc.)
Oct 03 13:15:33 <gambler> that fetches a little more than just ip-addresses and MX records
Oct 03 13:15:51 <tomgibara> The good news is that companies are already looking to adopt it
Oct 03 13:16:33 <gambler> thats good. Is it a global namespace?
Oct 03 13:16:41 <tomgibara> It is abstract, but it needs to be, it's basically an infrastructure project
Oct 03 13:17:50 <tomgibara> gambler: It's based on the idea that a developer/individual registers a chamber id, then within that chamber, they can allocate (trillions) of their own ids.
Oct 03 13:20:28 <tomgibara> I have a few android apps to release before moseycode though (much smaller thankfully)
Oct 03 13:20:59 <gambler> i think you could make it attractive to developers if you also added in support for RFID lookups within the same chamberspace
Oct 03 13:22:16 <tomgibara> gambler: Yes, there are many potential mappings that I can layer in, unfortunately, they'll have to wait a little while - since my focus will be returning to the android client-side
Oct 03 13:25:00 <gambler> ive had similiar but more wild ideas...I think youve picked a good niche though.
Oct 03 13:28:09 <muthu_> is there an email example anywhere?
Oct 03 13:28:52 <gambler> hotmail.com?
Oct 03 13:28:56 <gambler> muthu_, what are you looking for
Oct 03 13:31:02 <muthu_> email from android
Oct 03 13:32:36 <gambler> muthu_, google javamail...there is at least one really good GPL+w/classpath exception implementation
Oct 03 13:32:55 <muthu_> there must be an android api
Oct 03 13:34:58 <tomgibara> muthu_: android.intent.action.SEND
Oct 03 13:36:50 <muthu_> tomgibara: thx
Oct 03 13:36:55 <muthu_> checking out SEND
Oct 03 13:41:33 <muthu_> ACTION_ATTACH_DATA looks interesting
Oct 03 13:43:41 <muthu_> don't think its for email attachemnts
Oct 03 13:47:47 <gambler> does anyone by any chance know what BT chipset the G1 is using?
Oct 03 13:58:43 <gambler> Obama has released an iphone app.
Oct 03 13:59:02 <gambler> I guess apple thought it would be a little too Jim Crow for them to censor that...
Oct 03 14:00:19 <gambler> in related news Sarah Palin has released a beauty accessory kit
Oct 03 14:02:08 <muthu_> nice
Oct 03 14:14:12 <monteslu> obama made a comment that sarah's app used too much memory, calling it somewhat of a pig
Oct 03 14:14:21 <monteslu> of course the right wing took it wrong
Oct 03 14:14:24 <zhobbs> ouch
Oct 03 15:05:55 <mohbana> hi, is t-mobile that will ship android in the uk?
Oct 03 15:06:46 <ttuttle> You mean the G1?
Oct 03 15:08:34 <mohbana> ttuttle: is that the htc phone?  will anything else be available?
Oct 03 15:09:51 <SanMehat> morning
Oct 03 15:13:16 <summatusmentis> hi SanMehat
Oct 03 15:13:56 <summatusmentis> congratulations, btw
Oct 03 15:14:15 <ttuttle> SanMehat: morning
Oct 03 15:14:28 <ttuttle> mohbana: the G1 is the only Android phone that has been announced to date.
Oct 03 15:14:45 <ttuttle> mohbana: There will hopefully be more.
Oct 03 15:14:47 <mohbana> ttuttle: ok then ... so g1
Oct 03 15:15:01 <mohbana> only t-mobile will ship that right?
Oct 03 15:15:09 <ttuttle> mohbana: I don't know.
Oct 03 15:15:35 <summatusmentis> mohbana: for the time being t-mobile/g1 are the only android phone/provider
Oct 03 15:15:41 <summatusmentis> afaik
Oct 03 15:15:59 <summatusmentis> motorola just hired a bunch of devs, so they'll probably be releasing an android phone at some point
Oct 03 15:16:21 <summatusmentis> rumor has it there will be an android phone on sprint in 2009
Oct 03 15:16:29 <summatusmentis> or possibly before the end of 2008
Oct 03 15:16:44 <mohbana> i;'m asking about the carrier in the UK
Oct 03 15:16:57 <mohbana> it's not going to be capped like apple did with the iphone is it?
Oct 03 15:17:12 <summatusmentis> oh, UK... that I don't know
Oct 03 15:28:57 <Disconnect> thats a question for your carrier more than for the platform developers. like asking microsoft who is going to produce the next winmob phone - even if they know they can't say, and chances are they dont even know
Oct 03 15:31:22 <Disconnect> so anyone know if you can have different google accounts for mail/contacts and calendar on the g1?
Oct 03 15:32:18 <summatusmentis> Disconnect: I'm pretty sure it has to all be one account
Oct 03 15:35:27 <Disconnect> damn. i've got some integration to do then :(
Oct 03 15:36:02 <summatusmentis> I think you can reset the device to get to a different google account, but...
Oct 03 15:36:21 <ttuttle> summatusmentis: There's no easy "switch accounts" option.  It really is intended for a single account.
Oct 03 15:36:37 <Disconnect> thats gonna be inconvenient when switching between my calendar (and the spam-filled disaster of the account there) and my personal email..
Oct 03 15:36:39 <muthu_> this single google account requirement will be a big pain
Oct 03 15:36:46 <Disconnect> yah.
Oct 03 15:36:50 <ttuttle> Disconnect: move your calendar?
Oct 03 15:36:55 <ttuttle> Oh.
Oct 03 15:37:04 <ttuttle> You can use other email accounts with Email (not Gmail).
Oct 03 15:37:15 * anno^da is waiting for a totally different google independent PIM for Android :D
Oct 03 15:37:37 <zhobbs> can't you get your gmail via imap?
Oct 03 15:37:44 <ttuttle> anno^da: I'm actually interested in what happens.  I hope someone makes an Exchange client, as then corporate users will be potential Android users.
Oct 03 15:37:47 <Disconnect> ttuttle: moving the calendar is great except for the invites, sharing permissions, etc etc that are all set in the formerly-main account (basically everything except email)
Oct 03 15:38:05 <ttuttle> zhobbs: Yeah, but then you're not using the Gmail interface.
Oct 03 15:38:18 <ttuttle> romainguy__: greetings
Oct 03 15:42:05 <Disconnect> hmm. is google login supposed to be busted on the emulator? allows for username input but i can't select hte password field
Oct 03 15:42:18 <zhobbs> I'd really like to know what app_thumbnails is in my app's data folder (/data/data/<package>/app_thumbnails)...it's getting huge, and I'm not the one writing to it
Oct 03 15:43:13 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Where's the login field?
Oct 03 15:43:29 <Disconnect> dev tools -> google login service
Oct 03 15:43:43 <ttuttle> ok
Oct 03 15:43:51 <Disconnect> clear, require google, it prompts
Oct 03 15:44:05 <ttuttle> works for me
Oct 03 15:44:07 <ttuttle> press the down arrow
Oct 03 15:44:13 <ttuttle> wow
Oct 03 15:44:18 <ttuttle> i was just about to type my password into irc
Oct 03 15:44:21 <Disconnect> ahhh. i tried tab, i tried clicking, etc.
Oct 03 15:44:22 <Disconnect> lol
Oct 03 15:44:26 <Disconnect> that'd be pretty funny
Oct 03 15:44:40 <ttuttle> Yeah, on the G1, I'd use the trackball.
Oct 03 15:45:06 <Disconnect> tapping should prolly work too, at least if thats a prompt that is shipping on the device somewhere :)
Oct 03 15:45:17 <ttuttle> Disconnect: I'm pretty sure it works.
Oct 03 15:45:21 <ttuttle> Disconnect: (on the device)
Oct 03 15:46:24 <Disconnect> cool
Oct 03 16:24:02 <herriojr> so, as it turns out, they have no current plan on supporting plain xml for creating an AttributeSet
Oct 03 16:35:49 <muthu_> herriojr: how do you specify attributeset now?
Oct 03 16:36:40 <herriojr> what do you mean by that?
Oct 03 16:37:02 <herriojr> I filed a bug and that's what they told me...I was trying to create a view from plain xml
Oct 03 16:37:21 <muthu_> right, was wondering if you are work around with code
Oct 03 16:37:59 <herriojr> Essentially, I did the following: http://pastebin.ca/1218162
Oct 03 16:38:11 <herriojr> oh, yeah, I'm going to do a work-a-round
Oct 03 16:38:16 <herriojr> it's possible to do it
Oct 03 16:38:30 <herriojr> I just have to build the view via java code instead of precompiled xml
Oct 03 16:38:31 <muthu_> checking..
Oct 03 16:39:06 <zhobbs> herriojr: it's an interesting idea...are these views going to be interactive in any way?  how will that be handled?
Oct 03 16:40:00 <herriojr> yeah, I was going to try and figure that out...I was going to maybe make a service that I could handle it, but I can't have multiple programs with the same service
Oct 03 16:40:42 <zhobbs> you can have multiple activities connected to the same service
Oct 03 16:40:59 <herriojr> no, I want a single activity connected to multiple of the same service
Oct 03 16:41:07 <herriojr> which I can't do :)
Oct 03 16:41:29 <herriojr> basically, I am trying to make it so my program allows addins
Oct 03 16:42:11 <herriojr> without having to support a scripting language
Oct 03 16:42:19 <muthu_> doesn't bind let you do multiple?
Oct 03 16:42:48 <herriojr> so, lets say I have multiple of the same aidl files in different apk's
Oct 03 16:43:00 <herriojr> and I have one program that wants to access them all
Oct 03 16:43:14 <herriojr> so they all have a common interface in which to interact
Oct 03 16:43:24 <muthu_> hmm
Oct 03 16:43:32 <herriojr> that's what I'm trying to figure out next
Oct 03 16:44:49 <herriojr> I might just have to have a subset of actions that may be performed to start with
Oct 03 16:45:00 <herriojr> and just call the activity directly
Oct 03 16:45:17 <herriojr> so on a button click, go to so-and-so activity
Oct 03 16:45:22 <herriojr> in another apk
Oct 03 16:46:59 <muthu_> you mean through an intent?
Oct 03 16:47:25 <herriojr> yeah, I don't know android all that well, I'm just trying to see if I can do what I want before I start :)
Oct 03 16:48:12 <herriojr> so I just create really simple test applications to start
Oct 03 16:48:33 <muthu_> i don't think you can interoperate with apks
Oct 03 16:48:59 <herriojr> you can't start another application from your own?
Oct 03 16:49:48 <muthu_> you can only raise an intent to do something
Oct 03 16:49:49 <herriojr> I think you can, because their permission architecture seems to allow it
Oct 03 16:49:56 <herriojr> yeah, that's fine
Oct 03 16:50:10 <herriojr> I can create my own intents, correct?
Oct 03 16:50:22 <muthu_> right
Oct 03 16:51:08 <herriojr> yeah, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem
Oct 03 16:52:09 <muthu_> but you can't be sharing aidl
Oct 03 16:52:36 <herriojr> what do you mean by that?
Oct 03 16:52:49 <herriojr> you mean multiple with the same aidl implemented?
Oct 03 16:54:00 <herriojr> I was expecting I couldn't do that
Oct 03 16:54:11 <muthu_> are you saying you'll have multiple services running in different apks?
Oct 03 16:54:35 <herriojr> I was thinking about doing it that way, but I found out that they don't seem to have any support for that
Oct 03 16:54:46 <muthu_> why would you do that?
Oct 03 16:55:59 <herriojr> so, from my main program, I obtain an xml description of the view which may have different actions that may be performed on that view
Oct 03 16:56:12 <herriojr> so I would have those other apk handle that
Oct 03 16:56:21 <herriojr> and the view comes from one of the other apk's
Oct 03 16:56:36 <herriojr> I'd have to have a common interface for all the apk "addins" in order to do this
Oct 03 16:56:39 <herriojr> but it isn't possible
Oct 03 16:56:52 <herriojr> so each addin would have implemented the same service
Oct 03 16:57:50 <herriojr> basically, I'm trying to allow an apk to run in my main apk
Oct 03 16:58:21 <muthu_> hmmmmm
Oct 03 16:58:22 <herriojr> which as far as I know, android doesn't support, so I have to hack a way around it
Oct 03 16:58:42 <herriojr> so it might not be the most ideal solution, but I'll use whatever works at this point
Oct 03 16:59:05 <muthu_> why do you want to run an apk inside an apk?
Oct 03 16:59:46 <herriojr> so, lets say I have a very basic mail program that just sends and receives emails and allows you to read and write them
Oct 03 17:00:00 <herriojr> now lets say I want to allow anyone to write a filter that my program will use
Oct 03 17:00:12 <herriojr> and I want the mail program to allow multiple filters
Oct 03 17:00:52 <herriojr> or any other type of feature you may want someone else to be able to implement
Oct 03 17:00:58 <herriojr> without having access to your code
Oct 03 17:01:07 <zhobbs> herriojr: yeah, I'd like to come up with a good system to allow people to write plugins...
Oct 03 17:01:19 <herriojr> that's what I'm trying to create at the moment
Oct 03 17:01:26 <herriojr> it might be hackish, but if it works, it works
Oct 03 17:01:35 <herriojr> I guess plugin would be a better term for it :)
Oct 03 17:02:24 <herriojr> Even BREW allows you to do this in some respects :)
Oct 03 17:03:46 <herriojr> I can easily create a program to allow plugins in BREW....it's not hard at all
Oct 03 17:04:53 <ttuttle> herriojr: Blasphemy!
Oct 03 17:05:03 <herriojr> lol
Oct 03 17:05:33 <wastrel> what's BREW?
Oct 03 17:05:42 <herriojr> http://brew.qualcomm.com/
Oct 03 17:05:51 <herriojr> it's what verizon uses on its phones for programming
Oct 03 17:06:06 <herriojr> cingular uses j2me
Oct 03 17:06:12 <herriojr> BREW is an API written in C
Oct 03 17:07:20 <wastrel> so you want to be able to have a richer interface between the plugin and your program than you would have if the plugin were just another activity?
Oct 03 17:08:11 <muthu_> service already lets you bing by interfaces
Oct 03 17:08:25 <herriojr> I want my plugin to be able to be inserted into another activity
Oct 03 17:08:37 <herriojr> so if I want to display a list of activities, I could
Oct 03 17:08:51 <herriojr> *list of plugins
Oct 03 17:09:25 <muthu_> you write an activity
Oct 03 17:09:33 <muthu_> and make it available through intents
Oct 03 17:09:45 <herriojr> so an activity can be placed inside another activity?
Oct 03 17:09:49 <herriojr> from another apk?
Oct 03 17:10:21 <wastrel> like you can call the maps app from within your activity and get a location back
Oct 03 17:10:22 <herriojr> I thought activities take up the whole screen
Oct 03 17:10:24 <wastrel> i think there's a tutorial
Oct 03 17:10:41 <wastrel> no you can have non-fullscreen activities. there's also a multiple activity activity i forget the name.
Oct 03 17:10:46 <wastrel> subclass of activity
Oct 03 17:10:53 <ttuttle> wastrel: Tabs?
Oct 03 17:11:06 <herriojr> I thought the maps stuff is a API
Oct 03 17:11:14 <wastrel> activitygroup
Oct 03 17:11:18 <zhobbs> ActivityGroup lets you embed them
Oct 03 17:11:27 <zhobbs> though not sure if you can embed them from another package
Oct 03 17:11:54 <herriojr> yeah, if I can't embed them from another package, it can't really be considered a plugin, I'd have to bake them into my app
Oct 03 17:13:11 <muthu_> plugins are provided by intents
Oct 03 17:14:13 <zhobbs> muthu_: that just launches an activity though
Oct 03 17:14:25 <kslater> does anyone know if you can somehow key in a ctrl+key code into the emulator?
Oct 03 17:15:16 <herriojr> muthu: I don't want it to launch an activity in another apk, but instead display its activity inside my activity
Oct 03 17:16:02 <muthu_> android doesn't support that
Oct 03 17:16:16 <zhobbs> herriojr: might want to try ActivityGroup
Oct 03 17:16:28 <zhobbs> it might work across packages...who knows
Oct 03 17:17:41 <herriojr> ok, I'll try taht
Oct 03 17:17:53 <herriojr> *that
Oct 03 17:18:16 <zhobbs> here's some code, just change the intent to one in another package:
Oct 03 17:18:18 <zhobbs> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=879
Oct 03 17:24:19 <herriojr> well, if it works, our plugin problem should disappear :)
Oct 03 17:25:08 <herriojr> well, somewhat
Oct 03 17:25:28 <muthu_> android system is full of plugins
Oct 03 17:25:56 <muthu_> for example: openintents is all about plugins
Oct 03 17:34:52 <herriojr> awesome, great link muthu
Oct 03 17:44:39 <herriojr> muthu: this definately looks to be what I was looking for
Oct 03 18:03:37 <an_dev> can anybody tell me, for testing purpose can i chnage the language, like from english to spanish, in emulator?
Oct 03 18:03:42 <an_dev> and if yes, then how?
Oct 03 18:03:52 <zhobbs> you can't yes
Oct 03 18:03:55 <zhobbs> yet*
Oct 03 18:04:46 <pjv> tomgibara: ping
Oct 03 18:05:22 <zhobbs> an_dev: http://code.google.com/android/devel/resources-i18n.html#i18n
Oct 03 18:06:04 <an_dev> thanks a lot zhobbs
Oct 03 18:06:29 <an_dev> but i saw the language folder in my sdk folder :“\android-sdk-windows-1.0_r1\tools\lib\res\default”
Oct 03 18:06:35 <an_dev> under this directory
Oct 03 18:06:39 <tomgibara> pjv: here
Oct 03 18:06:48 <an_dev> why is this folders are there if they don't support it
Oct 03 18:07:07 <zhobbs> an_dev: I'm sure they will soon
Oct 03 18:07:13 <pjv> tomgibara, I'm looking to use veecheck in my app
Oct 03 18:07:15 <romainguy> an_dev: they are supported
Oct 03 18:07:22 <romainguy> the system can be built with a locale for instance
Oct 03 18:07:33 <pjv> the sample app zip you made seems to miss veecheck.util
Oct 03 18:07:54 <tomgibara> miss how?
Oct 03 18:08:30 <an_dev> romainguy:really?
Oct 03 18:08:32 <an_dev> how?
Oct 03 18:08:41 <pjv> ah I see now, they belong to the jar
Oct 03 18:08:46 <tomgibara> (it's quite possible I missed something, when I zipped it all together - I haven't put together a publish script)
Oct 03 18:09:31 <tomgibara> pjv: Yes, maybe I should make that clear - the sample app depends on the veecheck library
Oct 03 18:10:26 <tomgibara> Also I realized that I forgot to inform potential users that they can register for boot completed events (to make sure the polling starts on a device restart)
Oct 03 18:10:43 <pjv> also, I'm somewhat confused about the roles of the VeecheckReceiver and the VeecheckService
Oct 03 18:11:14 <herriojr> muthu: actually, it may not be what I'm looking for
Oct 03 18:11:16 <pjv> at least the createSettings() and createNotifier() methods aren't well-chosen (as names)
Oct 03 18:11:28 <tomgibara> why?
Oct 03 18:11:31 <pjv> maybe rename them createVeecheckSettings() etc?
Oct 03 18:12:03 <jasta> whats Veecheck?
Oct 03 18:12:10 <tomgibara> well a method called createSettings on a VeecheckReceiver class that returns a VeecheckSettings object doesn't need another Veecheck does it :)
Oct 03 18:12:37 <pjv> see, I'm confused because SampleService doesn't contain a great deal of code
Oct 03 18:12:43 <tomgibara> jasta: just this: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/
Oct 03 18:12:57 <pjv> it just implements the createNotifier method and returns a notifier that is already another class
Oct 03 18:13:22 <jasta> neat, but hopefully android provides this mechanism itself
Oct 03 18:13:22 <tomgibara> pjv: It contains only the code the needs to be done on the main thread
Oct 03 18:13:23 <pjv> SampleNotifier which extends BaseNotifier
Oct 03 18:13:33 <jasta> i hate when application developers have to fuss with distribution
Oct 03 18:14:04 <pjv> my gut feeling here is that you could save a lot of these inheritances
Oct 03 18:14:17 <pjv> but then again I should look into it deeper ;-)
Oct 03 18:14:20 * tomgibara back soon
Oct 03 18:14:25 <pjv> sure
Oct 03 18:31:11 <chouman82> quick question regarding the map functions in android
Oct 03 18:31:32 <chouman82> is there a method in map that searches for business around a certain location?
Oct 03 18:44:15 <tomgibara> pjv: I was going to say that producing a java library like this for android strikes me as a bit tricky - creation of the components is delegated, but there's no mechanism (eg. JNDI or IOC) for customizing them at the Java object level.
Oct 03 18:44:54 <pjv> ok
Oct 03 18:45:06 <pjv> I see what you mean
Oct 03 18:45:44 <pjv> the package is of very good quality actually (as well as the docs)
Oct 03 18:45:58 <pjv> it's also a 'good' black box
Oct 03 18:46:06 <tomgibara> tricky is a relative term here - this library was very easy to write quickly, but it is lacking in its API. I couldn't quickly see a clean way to make it customizable and clean
Oct 03 18:46:19 <pjv> just that the interfacing with it could be a little smaller
Oct 03 18:46:47 <pjv> well, what do I want for version checking in my app?
Oct 03 18:47:13 <pjv> I suppose I want to have a way to tell your lib to do a version check (an intent can do that)
Oct 03 18:47:17 <pjv> second..
Oct 03 18:47:32 <pjv> I want to tell it what to check and where -> via the preferences
Oct 03 18:47:52 <pjv> and thridly I might want to supply a message for the notification
Oct 03 18:47:58 <pjv> but thats it
Oct 03 18:48:07 <tomgibara> pjv: and that's just what I provide for isn't it?
Oct 03 18:48:12 <pjv> your lib is capable of much more (thats also a good thing)
Oct 03 18:48:39 <pjv> well, do *I* need to provide the BroadcastReceiver for this?
Oct 03 18:49:15 <tomgibara> yes, if you want periodic background checking
Oct 03 18:49:33 <tomgibara> if you don't, you don't, you can just use the service
Oct 03 18:50:00 <pjv> ok, I'm starting to see the why's now:
Oct 03 18:50:03 <chouman82> hey u guys know if there is a map related service that i can search for business around a certain geolocation?
Oct 03 18:50:20 <pjv> you couldn't put the BroadcastReceiver in the lib because of android?
Oct 03 18:51:10 <tomgibara> The base class for the BroadcastReceiver is in the lib, but my only option for allowing the client code to customize its settings is by allowing them to extend it
Oct 03 18:52:01 <pjv> so I don't need to extend into a SampleRetriever?
Oct 03 18:53:00 <tomgibara> Yes you do, because you need to supply an implementation of createSettings. I could have implemented that to return a PrefSettings by default, but I decided not to in the end
Oct 03 18:53:03 <tomgibara> It was a close call
Oct 03 18:54:24 <pjv> I'm not going to fight your call because I lack the insights for good judgement atm
Oct 03 18:54:27 <tomgibara> My reasoning was that: I can't avoid extending the service (so the API will involve some extending anyway), the default implementation makes it less clear what is required of the extended class and since you need to register the receiver in the Manifest anyway, it seems cleaner that you are only registering your own components
Oct 03 18:55:50 <jasta> hmm, i just had a novel thought
Oct 03 18:55:55 <tomgibara> This library was written at great haste - and I may regret some of the judgements, most were just based on intuition gained by practice.
Oct 03 18:56:00 <jasta> i'm going to prototype a few UIs before i actually functionally implement one
Oct 03 18:56:05 <jasta> that will save lots of time :)
Oct 03 18:56:35 <pjv> the docs say: createSettings: Supplies the settings that govern the operation of this BroadcastReceiver within the given context.
Oct 03 18:56:40 <pjv> that's not at all clear
Oct 03 18:56:52 <tomgibara> What should it say?
Oct 03 18:57:12 <pjv> and then the implementation is "return new PrefSettings(context);", and I don't even *have* to know about PrefSettings
Oct 03 18:57:52 <tomgibara> pjv: which class's docs are you looking at?
Oct 03 18:57:58 <pjv> I have no idea, I haven't figured out what it does (or allows to do) yet, I would just copy this
Oct 03 18:58:11 <chouman82> anyone know what function i should use if i want to search for businesses around a certain location?
Oct 03 18:58:11 <pjv> VeecheckReceiver
Oct 03 18:58:33 <chouman82> how can i do that with map activity?
Oct 03 18:58:43 <pjv> and the implementation in SampleRetriever (should that be "receiver" btw?)
Oct 03 18:59:08 <tomgibara> pjv: yes ideally for consistency it should, I changed the name at one point
Oct 03 18:59:18 <jasta> hehe, the demo of TuneWiki shows a god awful music collection :)
Oct 03 18:59:31 <jasta> i hope that was just a made up set for the video.  blech.
Oct 03 18:59:34 <pjv> tomgibara, I really can't tell it was written at haste, there are good prospects for it, just some rough edges since it's just released
Oct 03 18:59:45 <tomgibara> pjv: I'm not clear what you expect the documentation of the createSettings method to tell you
Oct 03 19:00:34 <tomgibara> pjv: :) don't worry about providing criticisms, those rough edges demonstrate how hasty it was
Oct 03 19:00:55 <pjv> let's see
Oct 03 19:01:19 <pjv> PrefSettings implements VeecheckSettings (which is a package down??)
Oct 03 19:02:36 <pjv> ah ok
Oct 03 19:02:36 <tomgibara> does that confuse you? (btw the package structure in Java nominally heierarchial, but technically flat)
Oct 03 19:03:19 <pjv> (it does confuse)
Oct 03 19:03:35 <tomgibara> It's a pretty standard idiom in java library design
Oct 03 19:03:47 <pjv> ok, I see in createSettings() I can somewhat provide my proper source of preferences
Oct 03 19:05:04 <pjv> it's not packages by themselves that confuse me, but I would expect the interface and the implementation class in the same package, at least for a simple lib like this
Oct 03 19:05:34 <pjv> what's "util" about PrefSettings, that's not "util" about VeecheckSettings?
Oct 03 19:05:58 <pjv> I think they are both util
Oct 03 19:06:09 <tomgibara> As I said it's idomatic java - the util package is providing you with helper classes that the main library doesn't require
Oct 03 19:06:19 <pjv> ah ok
Oct 03 19:06:25 <tomgibara> In that sense they are strictly utilitarian
Oct 03 19:07:06 <pjv> back to the createSettings()
Oct 03 19:07:28 <pjv> suppose in my app I already have a PreferencesActivity and a source/file for preferences
Oct 03 19:07:53 <pjv> then I would need to implement VeecheckSettings?
Oct 03 19:07:59 <tomgibara> yes
Oct 03 19:08:52 <pjv> and then I would supply that to the receiver
Oct 03 19:09:09 <tomgibara> by extending it, yes.
Oct 03 19:09:17 <pjv> yes
Oct 03 19:09:31 <pjv> isn't there an easier way? like..
Oct 03 19:09:47 <pjv> like just passing on the name of the preferences file?
Oct 03 19:10:14 <tomgibara> If you want to force the library to use a preferences file, yes, you could do that.
Oct 03 19:10:33 <tomgibara> (I mean a SharedPreferences)
Oct 03 19:10:50 <pjv> that would save me from 1) extending the receiver 2) implementing VeecheckSettings and somewhat 7 methods 3) probably some more stuff
Oct 03 19:11:16 <pjv> any disadvantages with this?
Oct 03 19:11:49 <pjv> 1) impossibility to save preferences in a "manual" way
Oct 03 19:12:30 <tomgibara> pjv: you could argue that it's an error to assume in the implementation of PrefSettings, a particular name (though I think I've made the right call there), but I don't agree that its a good trade off
Oct 03 19:12:50 <tomgibara> You have forever constrained the library design for what?
Oct 03 19:13:24 <pjv> if you're making a black box you're always constraining at some level
Oct 03 19:13:58 <pjv> when developing for android it would be reasonable to expect that people save their preferences in a SharedPreference
Oct 03 19:14:00 <tomgibara> pjv: Yes, in principle the least constrained library is the one that does nothing - not a helpful argument :)
Oct 03 19:14:57 <tomgibara> These aren't entirely user preferences - and in some apps they may not be expressed as preferences at all.
Oct 03 19:15:32 <pjv> hmm, ok, fair argument
Oct 03 19:16:12 <tomgibara> One could regard storing the CHECK_URI in the preferences as an abuse of the preferences - it's belongs in the application 'domain', not preferences.
Oct 03 19:16:34 <tomgibara> again it's a convenient trade off, but I don't want to force it onto the client code
Oct 03 19:17:35 <pjv> true
Oct 03 19:19:04 <pjv> and I suppose this discussion can be repeated for the notifications in the service?: rather than constraining to just the message of a notification, the lib currently allows to do *any* form of notification
Oct 03 19:19:42 <tomgibara> pjv: Yes, though the need to customize the notification programmatically is more pressing
Oct 03 19:20:17 <pjv> tomgibara, I would just stick with this design then
Oct 03 19:20:25 <tomgibara> :)
Oct 03 19:20:31 <pjv> but maybe you could add some of this reasoning to the documentation?
Oct 03 19:20:39 <pjv> difficult to put in the api doc
Oct 03 19:20:47 <pjv> but maybe in the sample app comments?
Oct 03 19:21:12 <pjv> because it's just not clear from the docs
Oct 03 19:21:26 <pjv> it's quite clear to me now because of your effort (thx btw)
Oct 03 19:22:05 <pjv> docs often fail in the "what do they expect of me?" (regular behaviour) part
Oct 03 19:22:21 <pjv> at least the android docs do fail there too sometimes
Oct 03 19:22:25 <tomgibara> pjv: Gauss: "no self-respecting architect leaves the scaffolding in place after completing the building"
Oct 03 19:23:22 <tomgibara> (I quote ironically)
Oct 03 19:25:02 <pjv> thus far my feedback ;-)
Oct 03 19:25:46 <pjv> thanks for your explanations, hope it was still useful
Oct 03 19:26:10 <tomgibara> np, sure
Oct 03 19:26:53 <pjv> oh, and I'm pretty sure Gauss didn't draw or build buildings ;-)
Oct 03 19:28:20 <tomgibara> pjv: He had eyes and knew the scaffolding got removed when buildings were finished :)
Oct 03 19:54:50 <ishmal2> hi all
Oct 03 19:55:08 <ishmal2> hey, im looking all over the site, and cant find any post-1.0 roadmap
Oct 03 19:57:04 <zhobbs> ishmal2: this is the only one afaik http://www.android.com/timeline.html
Oct 03 19:57:25 <herriojr> is it possible to return an activity from an intent?
Oct 03 19:58:20 <zhobbs> herriojr: don't think so, unless you're using a LocalActivityManager
Oct 03 19:58:29 <herriojr> hmm, ok
Oct 03 19:58:42 <herriojr> I don't think the link mushu gave me earlier will work
Oct 03 19:59:00 <herriojr> I think it's just a package with a bunch of pre-defined GUI structures, so you don't have to build them
Oct 03 19:59:37 <herriojr> I don't think it allows for other application activities to be displayed in my activity group
Oct 03 19:59:46 <ishmal2> wondering when in the future i can dig up my app's code that used the GtalkService, and port it to whatever replaces it in the future
Oct 03 20:04:37 <jasta> i'm really glad i avoided the gtalkservice ;)
Oct 03 20:05:34 <ishmal2> i know i can do it with a tcpip xmpp client, but the always-on part was the charm,
Oct 03 20:05:46 <ishmal2> and not impacting the user's monthly bandwidth
Oct 03 20:05:56 <jasta> the "always-on" part was just that it was a service that tried to stay connected forever.
Oct 03 20:06:13 <jasta> which you could write yourself
Oct 03 20:10:26 <ishmal2> i've done a couple of xmpp clients.   also, Smack works wonders
Oct 03 20:10:34 <ishmal2> but i'll wait
Oct 03 20:11:25 * Disconnect is a fan of openfire actually, but havne't worked with smack (except as part of spark, which is .. meh..)
Oct 03 20:11:34 <ishmal2> they said "don't despair,"   so i won't   :-)
Oct 03 20:15:55 <ishmal2> the only thing i dont like about Smack, is that the api for extending <message>s is kinda clumsy
Oct 03 20:20:33 <ishmal2> well, not "don't like"  .   just it could be better
Oct 03 20:40:51 <pjv> tomgibara, I incorporated it into my app, and I think I covered everything, yet I see no notifications
Oct 03 20:41:11 <pjv> any pointers on debugging this? (like: how can I check if it fetches the xml?)
Oct 03 20:43:02 <wastrel> what does the m in front of some variable names in the Notepad tutorial mean?
Oct 03 20:43:04 <tomgibara> pjv: two things
Oct 03 20:43:13 <wastrel> for example    private final Context mCtx;
Oct 03 20:44:14 <tomgibara> I forgot to cover in the documentation that the receiver can be registered for the BOOT_COMPLETED intent - that will kick off the scheduling of checks when the device boots
Oct 03 20:45:15 <gdsx> wastrel: (guess) it's a class member variable
Oct 03 20:45:24 <pjv> ok, to narrow things down I have the follwoing in my main activity's onCreate(): sendBroadcast(new Intent(VersioncheckBroadcastReceiver.ACTION_CONSIDER_CHECK));
Oct 03 20:45:49 <pjv> so a check should be made at the start of my app
Oct 03 20:46:10 <pjv> and I am starting it
Oct 03 20:46:56 <pjv> the SampleNotifier was complete wasn't it?
Oct 03 20:48:15 <wastrel> gdsx: ok that makes sense.  m(ember)
Oct 03 20:48:28 <wastrel> and the exampels i have are all declared private
Oct 03 20:48:38 <pjv> ok tried the different entry point, got an exception now, let's see
Oct 03 20:50:22 <tomgibara> the other thing is that there is debug under the "veecheck" tag
Oct 03 20:50:40 <pjv> thats useful
Oct 03 20:50:50 <tomgibara> (I forgot to check loggability before making verbose calls - that's another rough edge)
Oct 03 20:54:07 <dd94300> can i modify string.xml from my java code?
Oct 03 21:01:03 <Trevel> hi
Oct 03 21:01:52 <f00f-> Disconnect: i used to get lots of crashes (VM deaths) with openfire until recently.
Oct 03 21:02:06 <pjv> tomgibara, ok getting something at system startup:
Oct 03 21:02:10 <pjv> 10-03 23:00:01.164: DEBUG/veecheck(158): Receiver called
Oct 03 21:02:26 <pjv> 10-03 23:00:01.184: VERBOSE/veecheck(158): Receiver called with action: android.intent.action.BOOT_COMPLETED
Oct 03 21:02:32 <pjv> 10-03 23:00:01.184: DEBUG/veecheck(158): Registering checks with alarm service
Oct 03 21:02:37 <pjv> 10-03 23:00:03.534: VERBOSE/veecheck(158): Check period is 1000ms starting from Fri Oct 03 23:00:02 GMT+02:00 2008
Oct 03 21:03:04 <pjv> but no notifications
Oct 03 21:05:14 <pjv> I should be getting a notification (in the status bar) every second now right (since the xml file I uploaded specifies the same version and an intent for it)?
Oct 03 21:06:52 <herriojr> zhobbs: I got a reply back about creating plugins
Oct 03 21:07:10 <herriojr> zhobbs: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=937
Oct 03 21:12:49 <zhobbs> herriojr: looks like that's using an ActivityGroup, getLocalActivity() is a method of ActivityGroup
Oct 03 21:12:59 <zhobbs> getLocalActivityManager() I mean
Oct 03 21:19:31 <herriojr> yeah, which I'm excited about
Oct 03 21:20:09 <herriojr> I'm glad I can actually do it without doing some hocus pocus
Oct 03 21:20:20 <herriojr> now I'll actually start building my app :)
Oct 03 21:39:53 <mohbana> so the android isn't going to restricted to only t-mobile?
Oct 03 21:40:39 <anno^da> Why should it be restricted to T-Mobile ?
Oct 03 21:40:39 <jasonlee> android no, the G1, maybe..
Oct 03 21:40:54 <anno^da> Even the G1 is not.
Oct 03 21:41:01 <jasta> well, in the US it basically is
Oct 03 21:41:16 <jasta> if you want 3G anyway, and even still it could only go unlocked to AT&T (sans 3G)
Oct 03 21:41:33 <jasta> the issue of locked-in control is largely hardware compatibility, in my mind.
Oct 03 21:41:44 <mohbana> i'm talking about in UK
Oct 03 21:41:45 <jasta> it's so much easier to lock consumers in when the devices largely are not interoperable
Oct 03 21:42:38 <jasta> mohbana: well, who knows.  the t-mobile CTO claims unlocked phones will be available, but it was not officially announced as an option so i dont know how to interpret that
Oct 03 21:43:11 <jasta> doesn't much matter for me tho, my gf's brother is a low-level executive at T-Mobile with just enough power to get me unlocked and sometimes free devices ;)
Oct 03 21:43:26 <jasonlee> i was pretty sure the t-mobile said the G1s were locked to t-mobile?
Oct 03 21:44:00 <gdsx> what I've heard is that T-mobile will give you an unlock code after 90 days if you request it
Oct 03 21:44:03 <jasta> jasonlee: and they are, but then the CTO is quoted the day of that announcement as saying that unlocked phones will be available.
Oct 03 21:44:03 <anno^da> Well the CTO mentioned that unlocked phones will be available for 399
Oct 03 21:44:09 <jasta> and that consumers can unlock them themselves after so much time
Oct 03 21:44:26 <jasonlee> ahh
Oct 03 21:44:36 <jasta> but its really hard to interpret because he might have just been uninformed or something
Oct 03 21:44:48 <anno^da> Yeah. And for people in Europe this would be perfect beacuse it is no problem to get sim cards here without a contract and with the possibility to use 3G
Oct 03 21:47:45 <anno^da> But jasta is right we dont really know anything official.
Oct 03 21:47:59 <anno^da> But well eBay will have lots of unlocked phones. ;)
Oct 03 21:48:10 <jasta> well they have to come from somewhere to be on eBay
Oct 03 21:48:25 <jasta> so that will depend on who can get unlocked phones and how? :)
Oct 03 21:48:28 <zhobbs> ebay already has lots of g1's on there
Oct 03 21:49:58 <jasta> zhobbs: theyre not unlocked tho, theyre just selling the presale ones
Oct 03 21:50:04 <zhobbs> yeah
Oct 03 21:50:08 <jasta> and theyre "no contract" but not unlocked
Oct 03 21:50:12 <jasta> a really huge difference
Oct 03 21:52:19 <jasta> i wonder what HTC's cost is on this device.
Oct 03 21:54:24 <anno^da> I would assume that it is cheaper than the iPhone
Oct 03 21:54:37 <unix_lappy> well it's certainly not as well built as the iphone
Oct 03 21:55:37 <unix_lappy> and i've been hearing really bad things about the G1's battery life, about equivalent to the iphone 3g
Oct 03 21:55:51 <zhobbs> unix_lappy: at least it's replaceable
Oct 03 21:55:55 <jasta> yeah, it has less battery than my current winmo phone, and that thing dies all the time
Oct 03 21:56:24 <benley> the g1's battery is less godawful than what was in my last winmo device
Oct 03 21:56:25 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: well it'll obviously be easier to turn 3g on and off on the android phone.
Oct 03 21:57:34 <gdsx> jasta: note that pre-production and production G1s will likely differ as far as battery lifespan (and, thus battery life) goes, due to some issues that were ironed out
Oct 03 21:58:20 <jasta> gdsx: i just meant in terms of the mAh of the battery
Oct 03 21:58:26 <jasta> so its a smaller battery than my current phone, at least
Oct 03 21:58:32 <jasta> whether it is more efficient i dont know.  probably is :)
Oct 03 21:58:40 <gdsx> jasta: aah, ::nod::
Oct 03 21:59:02 <gdsx> jasta: basically, the capacity of pre-production devices will drop faster than that of the production devices
Oct 03 22:01:20 <unix_lappy> well the g1 and the iphone are about 1400mAH.  though the iPhone is underclocked.
Oct 03 22:02:09 <unix_lappy> not sure how to compare power management though across devices.
Oct 03 22:02:12 <dmoffett> In an effort to make it easy to change text, back ground colors etc in my app.  All the color definitions are in a string file.  These colors are referenced in the code to but when referenced in layouts I get a crash at runtime.  Does anyone know if this concept is possible?
Oct 03 22:02:12 <dmoffett> Example:
Oct 03 22:02:12 <dmoffett>     <string name="cell_text_color">#FFF56505</string>
Oct 03 22:02:12 <dmoffett>          android:textColor="@string/cell_text_color"
Oct 03 22:02:15 <jasta> unix_lappy: uhh, i read 1150mAh
Oct 03 22:03:00 <f00f-> yes
Oct 03 22:03:02 <zhobbs> dmoffett: why not use <color /> ?
Oct 03 22:03:58 <unix_lappy> jasta: whoops, yea the iphone is around 1400, the G1 is around 1200
Oct 03 22:04:12 <dmoffett> zhobbs: you mean in the layout?
Oct 03 22:05:35 * unix_lappy honestly thinks that coming out with the Touch HD and the G1 simultaneously as Android Devices would've garnered a much better release.
Oct 03 22:06:00 <romainguy> unix_lappy: g1 is underclocked as well (the CPU is)
Oct 03 22:06:05 <zhobbs> dmoffett: <resources><drawable name="black">#FF000000</drawable></resources>
Oct 03 22:06:37 <zhobbs> android:textColor="@drawable/black"
Oct 03 22:06:46 <dmoffett> zhobbs:  thank you. I iwll study that for a bit.
Oct 03 22:06:59 <zhobbs> but I think there is <color> / @color also
Oct 03 22:07:10 <romainguy> there is
Oct 03 22:07:17 <zhobbs> I define those in res/values/colors.xml
Oct 03 22:10:40 <dmoffett> these xml files can make your life easier if you know what the hell you doing.  :-)
Oct 03 22:12:21 <unix_lappy> romainguy: from 528mhz to?
Oct 03 22:12:30 <romainguy> swetland can give you the real number
Oct 03 22:12:39 <unix_lappy> heh.
Oct 03 22:13:57 <romainguy> unix_lappy: but it's something like 384 Mhz
Oct 03 22:14:05 <benley> that low?
Oct 03 22:14:19 <romainguy> it's not that low :)
Oct 03 22:14:24 <romainguy> it's just a phone after all
Oct 03 22:14:45 <unix_lappy> meh, it's likely on par with the iPhone.
Oct 03 22:15:19 <zhobbs> it's underclocked for power consumption?
Oct 03 22:15:32 <romainguy> yes
Oct 03 22:16:01 <romainguy> the CPU is also throttled dynamically
Oct 03 22:16:06 <romainguy> but again swetland knows that stuff :))
Oct 03 22:19:05 <swetland> yeah, we run at 245-384MHz. 528 draws a good bit more power for not a huge performance gain.
Oct 03 22:19:33 <swetland> we're working on improving the dynamic cpu scaling stuff and may boost the top speed once we're happy with the power/performance tradeoffs
Oct 03 22:22:12 <romainguy> so, again:
Oct 03 22:22:14 <romainguy> dumb GC
Oct 03 22:22:17 <romainguy> interpreted VM
Oct 03 22:22:25 <romainguy> non-hw accelerated graphics rendering
Oct 03 22:22:31 <romainguy> 384 Mhz
Oct 03 22:22:41 <romainguy> there's room for improvement in future versions of Android :)
Oct 03 22:22:58 <romainguy> it's actually pretty cool to see how fast our stuff run
Oct 03 22:27:14 <jasta> romainguy: i love that, seeing huge opt potential and yet, reasonable performance
Oct 03 22:27:19 <jasta> but don't get complacent ;)
Oct 03 22:27:52 <romainguy> we don't
Oct 03 22:29:27 <jasta> how do you mean by interpreted VM?  no JIT?
Oct 03 22:32:00 <jasta> hey, does the IMAP client support IMAP IDLE?
Oct 03 22:32:14 <jasta> for push e-mail?
Oct 03 22:32:58 <herriojr> I can't seem to get permissions to work properly, how do I set it up so I can start another apk?
Oct 03 22:33:09 <gdsx> jasta: that's not really "push"
Oct 03 22:33:16 <herriojr> I tried creating my own permission, but that doesn't seem to work
Oct 03 22:33:20 <gdsx> jasta: that's just using the IDLE as a poll
Oct 03 22:33:43 <gdsx> (unless the server can send an IDLE, I guess)
Oct 03 22:34:18 <romainguy> jasta: yeah, no JIT
Oct 03 22:34:23 <herriojr> in the calling package, I do <uses-permission android:name="com.mycompany.MYPERMISSION" />
Oct 03 22:34:31 <jasta> gdsx: how does that compare with "real" push?
Oct 03 22:34:38 <romainguy> herriojr: did you declare the permission in your manifest?
Oct 03 22:34:50 <romainguy> something like this:
Oct 03 22:34:51 <romainguy>     <permission android:name="com.android.launcher.permission.INSTALL_SHORTCUT"
Oct 03 22:34:51 <romainguy>                 android:permissionGroup="android.permission-group.SYSTEM_TOOLS"
Oct 03 22:34:51 <romainguy>                 android:protectionLevel="normal"
Oct 03 22:34:51 <romainguy>                 android:label="@string/permlab_install_shortcut"
Oct 03 22:34:51 <romainguy>                 android:description="@string/permdesc_install_shortcut"/>
Oct 03 22:34:52 <jasta> i understood push e-mail to be just a really light connection that is maintained to the server, which reacts when new mail arrives
Oct 03 22:35:20 <herriojr> romainguy: yes
Oct 03 22:35:53 <gdsx> jasta: in "real" push, the server sends a notification packet without the device polling for it
Oct 03 22:36:19 <gdsx> jasta: afaik, the mail itself is never actually pushed, so it's sort of a misnomer in that sense
Oct 03 22:36:40 <herriojr> <permission android:name="com.mycompany.MYPERMISSION" android:protectionLevel="normal" android:label="com.mycompany.MYPERMISSION" />
Oct 03 22:36:41 <gdsx> jasta: but it does mean that the device doesn't have to poll (as long as it has some method to make sure the connection is up)
Oct 03 22:37:01 <jasta> gdsx: i don't see the difference between IMAP IDLE and this.
Oct 03 22:37:54 <gdsx> jasta: does the server send IDLEs to the clients?
Oct 03 22:38:44 <herriojr> I still get java.lang.SecurityException: Requesting code from com.mycompany.android.plugin (with uid 10018) to be run in process androidtest.test (with uid 10017)
Oct 03 22:38:51 <jasta> gdsx: it is a client-side command that instructs the server to leave the connection open indefinitely (permitting small keep-alives).  the server will respond when a new message arrives.
Oct 03 22:38:57 <herriojr> romainguy: is there another permission I need to include to run another app?
Oct 03 22:39:22 <jasta> the client thus can make a connection, set it idle, and just wait indefinitely for the server to say something.  the overhead involved is merely that of maintaining a TCP connection to a remote peer
Oct 03 22:39:44 <gdsx> jasta: yeah, ok; I didn't realize it worked that way
Oct 03 22:39:47 <jasta> i understood this to be push e-mail.
Oct 03 22:39:52 <jasta> that basic strategy, i mean
Oct 03 22:39:58 <gdsx> jasta: yeah
Oct 03 22:40:06 <jasta> gdsx: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2177.html -- look at the "Example:"...
Oct 03 22:40:21 <gdsx> haha; not feeling like RFCs right now :o)
Oct 03 22:40:24 <jasta> so, i ask again, does the G1's IMAP client support this? :)
Oct 03 22:40:34 <jasta> gdsx: it's just a simple command session, it will make it obvious how it works
Oct 03 22:40:35 <gdsx> jasta: I don't know
Oct 03 22:41:13 <jasta> IMAP IDLE is supported by Exchange, so that would be a really quick win to support users who are forced to use Exchange mail
Oct 03 22:41:22 <jasta> without having to do polling
Oct 03 22:41:55 <zhobbs> polling IMAP isn't a big concern for me really....
Oct 03 22:42:07 <jasta> IMAP IDLE is really simple too.  it's just an extra IMAP command tacked onto the protocol.
Oct 03 22:42:13 <gdsx> zhobbs: polling costs battery
Oct 03 22:42:15 <jasta> zhobbs: it's much worse for battery life.
Oct 03 22:42:19 <zhobbs> yeah
Oct 03 22:42:31 <zhobbs> I guess if it's set to do it every 5 mins that probably adds up quick
Oct 03 22:42:52 <jasta> even 30 minutes will have a measurable impact on battery life versus IMAP IDLE with infrequently received mail
Oct 03 22:42:55 <gdsx> zhobbs: the problem is that, without push, you have to balance battery life and mail delivery latency
Oct 03 22:43:13 <jasta> that would be super lame for Google to skip such an obvious feature :(
Oct 03 22:43:16 <jasta> iPhone's mail app did :(
Oct 03 22:43:28 <jasta> IMAP IDLE is supported by like every IMAP server i've ever encountered
Oct 03 22:43:47 <gdsx> zhobbs: so if you poll every 30 minutes, and someone sends an email right after the window starts, you wait 29 minutes rather than hearing about it when it gets there
Oct 03 22:43:49 <jasta> hell i mean the RFC that added it was published in 1997
Oct 03 22:43:52 <zhobbs> I think Android's IMAP client will be open source at least
Oct 03 22:44:12 <jasta> zhobbs: really?  i would've thought not, actually
Oct 03 22:45:11 <zhobbs> my understanding is that "google" apps won't be (gmail,youtube, maps), but android apps will be (email, alarm clock, etc)
Oct 03 22:45:25 <zhobbs> but I could be wrong
Oct 03 22:45:30 <jasta> zhobbs: will email and gmail actually be that different?
Oct 03 22:45:42 <jasta> in that they are two truly separate apps?
Oct 03 22:45:53 <wastrel> push
Oct 03 22:46:05 <gdsx> jasta: they are two separate apps
Oct 03 22:46:10 <jasta> interesting
Oct 03 22:46:19 <jasta> well, that would be great if its open source then.  IMAP IDLE should be a sync to add.
Oct 03 22:46:23 <jasta> err, i meant sinch :)
Oct 03 22:46:31 <gdsx> heh
Oct 03 22:46:33 <wastrel> cinch
Oct 03 22:46:38 <jasta> *whatever*
Oct 03 22:46:50 <wastrel> we report - you decide
Oct 03 22:48:52 <herriojr> romainguy: here's what my manifest files look like http://pastebin.ca/1218488
Oct 03 22:49:06 <herriojr> the first is the application being called, and the second is the calling application
Oct 03 23:10:43 <herriojr> I can't find an example at all
Oct 03 23:23:53 <herriojr> what permissions do I need to run an activity with a different uid?
Oct 03 23:25:33 <pjv> can I cheer up somebody's day with a little Android's Fortune?: https://launchpad.net/androidsfortune/0.1.0/0.1.0
Oct 03 23:26:10 <herriojr> only if it tells me what permissions I need to start another app's activity :)
Oct 03 23:26:12 <pjv> more explicitly this is a project (the well-known fortune program) I have been working on for some time
Oct 03 23:26:30 <herriojr> have any screen shots?
Oct 03 23:26:43 <pjv> herriojr, ehm you don't need permissions to do that afaik
Oct 03 23:26:52 <pjv> sure just a sec
Oct 03 23:27:17 <herriojr> I keep getting permission error when I try to display it as part of a ActivityGroup
Oct 03 23:28:59 <herriojr> but it doesn't inform me of what permission I need
Oct 03 23:29:01 <gdsx> herriojr: I believe the answer is "you can't"
Oct 03 23:29:22 <gdsx> or, not without being a system process
Oct 03 23:29:30 <gdsx> I might be completely wrong, though
Oct 03 23:29:30 <pjv> http://launchpad.net/androidsfortune/0.1.0/0.1.0/+download/001.png
Oct 03 23:29:49 <herriojr> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=937
Oct 03 23:30:40 <gdsx> herriojr: yeah, the upshot is that you can get the different bits to run under the _same_ uid
Oct 03 23:31:04 <herriojr> can I make multiple applications have the same UID then?
Oct 03 23:31:20 <pjv> jasta, I said I would have more information today
Oct 03 23:31:23 <gdsx> yes, I forget exactly how, though :o)
Oct 03 23:32:13 <gdsx> herriojr: I know it involves them being signed with the same dev key, and you have to do something in the manifest also
Oct 03 23:32:22 <pjv> :-)
Oct 03 23:35:12 <herriojr> ok, I found that thing
Oct 03 23:35:27 <herriojr> so how can I give third party developers the ability to sign with my dev key?
Oct 03 23:36:13 <gdsx> herriojr: I'm not sure, but I believe the plugin thing is something we're still working out (in that you wouldn't want other folks to be able to sign with your dev key)
Oct 03 23:36:22 <gdsx> herriojr: romainguy likely has more info
Oct 03 23:37:12 <herriojr> maybe they can ship me their package, and I can sign it for them?
Oct 03 23:37:31 <herriojr> so they can't just sign anything with my dev key
Oct 03 23:38:14 <gdsx> herriojr: that's still not good
Oct 03 23:38:43 <gdsx> herriojr: if something bad happens (bug/malicious), it's Your Problem
Oct 03 23:38:59 <herriojr> yeah, I know, but there should be some way to allow me to include other applications' views in my application if they give me permission
Oct 03 23:39:22 <gdsx> herriojr: again, I'm not really the person to talk to about this
Oct 03 23:39:27 <herriojr> ok :)
Oct 03 23:39:36 <herriojr> well, anytime romainguy wants to jump in :)
Oct 04 02:56:22 <unix_infidel> do i need to have the guest additions installed to get my virtual NIC working?
Oct 04 02:56:52 <unix_infidel> (ubuntu guest, windows host)
Oct 04 02:58:13 <unix_infidel> whoops, wrong chan.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 04 02:59:57 2008