**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 05 02:59:57 2008
Oct 05 03:00:02 <wastrel> i don't have an iphone
Oct 05 03:00:09 <unix_infidel> romainguy_: didnt say anything to the contrary.
Oct 05 03:00:19 <romainguy_> I didn't say you said the contrary :))
Oct 05 03:00:33 <unix_infidel> romainguy_: you probably saved more than that in terms of monthly costs + taxes.
Oct 05 03:01:08 <romainguy_> definitely
Oct 05 03:01:22 <romainguy_> especially since I switched my girlfriend's plan with m ine
Oct 05 03:01:57 <unix_infidel> heh, well you live in SF, so you're over paying for basically everything already.
Oct 05 03:02:06 <romainguy_> that's true :)
Oct 05 03:02:09 <romainguy_> like gas and rent ^^
Oct 05 03:02:27 <romainguy_> I was surprised to see how much more expensive gas is in SF compared to say, Arizona and Utah :)
Oct 05 03:04:06 <romainguy_> the T-Mobile employees in the store were pretty surprised to see a couple of G1 :))
Oct 05 03:04:28 <yakischloba> hah i bet
Oct 05 03:04:30 <wastrel> did you make them sign an NDA?
Oct 05 03:04:35 <romainguy_> lol
Oct 05 03:04:47 <romainguy_> well now the phone has been announced, so I don't have to hide it when I use it anymore :)
Oct 05 03:04:48 <unix_infidel> well AZ and SLC dont have a 7 billion dollar State defecit.
Oct 05 03:05:22 <unix_infidel> well AZ and UT...
Oct 05 03:52:00 * ahaberlach yawns.
Oct 05 03:52:07 <muthu1> http://drop.io/androidbackgrounds
Oct 05 03:54:38 <cbeust> These backgrounds are 1280x1024...  Bit silly
Oct 05 03:54:46 <cbeust> why not offer them in the correct resolution?
Oct 05 03:55:06 <muthu1> not sure why he had only that res
Oct 05 03:55:49 <muthu1> guess its his desktop background
Oct 05 03:56:26 <muthu1> got the android walking in snow.. looks nice
Oct 05 03:58:31 <muthu1> cbeust: do you use linux?
Oct 05 03:58:46 * ahaberlach spends some time working on Steve-bot 1.0
Oct 05 03:58:49 <cbeust> Yes, and also Mac and Windows
Oct 05 03:58:58 <muthu1> which linux distro is the best?
Oct 05 03:59:14 <cbeust> No clue :)
Oct 05 03:59:26 <muthu1> hehe
Oct 05 03:59:30 <cbeust> I use Linux as little as I can. We use Ubuntu at Google, I hear it's good
Oct 05 03:59:36 <ahaberlach> Are we _trying_ to start a distro war in here?  :)
Oct 05 03:59:43 <muthu1> ubuntu breaks at the first update
Oct 05 03:59:45 <cbeust> but basicall, I use an XTerm, Eclipse and Emacs, that's it
Oct 05 03:59:56 * ahaberlach likes Ubuntu.  used Redhat before that, Debian before that.
Oct 05 04:00:12 <muthu1> ubuntu seems to the popular one
Oct 05 04:00:32 <cbeust> In a related news, "Linux laptops returned 4x as often as Windows"
Oct 05 04:00:47 * ahaberlach shrugs.  Right now my main service computer is an Ubuntu slice at http://slicehost.com.  My work machine is a Google-tweaked Ubuntu, but really all I do is run Firefox, Terminal windows, and Eclipse.  :)
Oct 05 04:01:13 <muthu1> linux cannot be mainstream
Oct 05 04:01:20 <muthu1> with so much of little nagging issues
Oct 05 04:01:24 <cbeust> No argument there.
Oct 05 04:01:54 <cbeust> G1 emulator: http://tmobile.modeaondemand.com/htc/g1/
Oct 05 04:02:09 <cbeust> Adam, can you update the topic to point to the emulator?
Oct 05 04:02:25 <muthu1> cbeust: what's that?
Oct 05 04:02:31 <cbeust> Try it
Oct 05 04:02:33 <cbeust> Flash emulator
Oct 05 04:02:35 <cbeust> Very neat
Oct 05 04:02:38 <muthu1> oh
Oct 05 04:03:44 <ahaberlach> Sure
Oct 05 04:04:23 <ahaberlach> Hmm.  Looks like I cannot.
Oct 05 04:04:31 <cbeust> I'm so disappointed in you.
Oct 05 04:04:32 <ahaberlach> http://tmobile.modeaondemand.com/htc/g1/
Oct 05 04:04:50 <ahaberlach> Steve-bot LIVES!
Oct 05 04:05:11 * ahaberlach can now programattically cause a servo to hit the menu button, in order to repeatedly wake a device and see what that does to battery life.
Oct 05 04:05:32 <cbeust> You weren't kidding when you said "bit"
Oct 05 04:05:34 <cbeust> bot*
Oct 05 04:05:35 <muthu1> nice.. G1
Oct 05 04:06:31 <muthu1> gives a feel for G1
Oct 05 04:06:51 <wastrel> i use ubuntu
Oct 05 04:07:05 <muthu1> fedora seems to be stable
Oct 05 04:08:25 <cbeust> Can't help laughing when I see my friends still trying to get Linux to support proper sound and hibernation
Oct 05 04:08:32 <cbeust> One release it works, the next it doesn't
Oct 05 04:09:07 <wastrel> i like linux
Oct 05 04:09:27 <muthu1> cbeust: true
Oct 05 04:10:04 <muthu1> sound will be on/off for no reason when running emualtor
Oct 05 04:10:07 <muthu1> gave up on that
Oct 05 04:10:15 <ahaberlach> Oh yeah, don't bother with Linux for sound.  I hear that it's ok on laptops but hibernation is a pain.
Oct 05 04:10:19 <muthu1> wastrel: linux is good
Oct 05 04:10:29 <ahaberlach> I'm fine with an OSX laptop and Linux on my servers.
Oct 05 04:10:45 <cbeust> I like Linux like I would like a chainsaw
Oct 05 04:10:47 <ahaberlach> The Linux workstation at work has a rather large team of people making it work, so it's not so bad.  :)
Oct 05 04:46:29 <f00f-> questionable mechanism
Oct 05 04:46:55 <ahaberlach> I now have a "robot" set up that will, every 30 seconds, push a button on a phone for battery-life measurement reasons.
Oct 05 04:47:20 <ahaberlach> Go me.
Oct 05 04:51:34 <wastrel> robot
Oct 05 04:54:53 <umdk1d3> GAH
Oct 05 04:55:05 <umdk1d3> why are threads not dying when i tell them to .stop() during onStop()
Oct 05 04:56:29 <romainguy_> because stop() is not reliable
Oct 05 04:56:32 <romainguy_> that's not how you stop threads
Oct 05 04:56:36 <romainguy_> it's even deprectaed
Oct 05 04:58:09 <romainguy_> wow
Oct 05 04:58:16 <romainguy_> that St André packs a punch
Oct 05 05:04:51 <umdk1d3> romainguy_: you ready for a very alpha apk?
Oct 05 05:04:54 <umdk1d3> ;)
Oct 05 05:04:59 <romainguy_> shoot :)
Oct 05 05:05:20 * umdk1d3 wipes and checks one more time to be sure
Oct 05 05:09:57 <hamdroid> umdk1d3: Post a message to a handler tied to the background threads asking them to quit
Oct 05 05:10:27 <romainguy_> hamdroid: there's no reason to use a Handler
Oct 05 07:23:27 <anno^da> Is the usage of this drawables in my own app allowed? http://www.screaming-penguin.com/info/android_drawables/android_drawables.html
Oct 05 07:24:13 <romainguy_> only if they are in android.R.drawable
Oct 05 07:24:21 <romainguy_> if not, they are considered private APIs and you should not use them
Oct 05 07:24:41 <romainguy_> also, it's a bad idea to manually copy them in your app because you might get out of sync with our updates :)
Oct 05 07:25:07 <romainguy_> and some of these drawables are actually outdated/unused
Oct 05 07:32:47 <anno^da> Ok. Thank you romainguy_ .
Oct 05 07:32:57 <anno^da> Just found this site in some news about Android.
Oct 05 07:41:01 <Dovid> any1 have a list of phones that r android compatable
Oct 05 07:52:34 <romainguy_> T-Mobile G1 :)
Oct 05 07:53:23 <mazzen> hehe
Oct 05 07:56:13 <Dovid> i have an existing Samsung phone that i wan convert over ;)
Oct 05 07:57:12 <romainguy_> well
Oct 05 07:57:18 <romainguy_> if the hardware meets the requirements
Oct 05 07:57:22 <romainguy_> and if you have all the drivers
Oct 05 07:57:27 <romainguy_> then sure :)
Oct 05 07:57:37 <romainguy_> (and if you have a way to reflash your phone :)
Oct 05 07:58:51 <mazzen> hm... but this is an interesting question... is there any basic procedure?
Oct 05 08:00:24 <mazzen> a kind of: first do this, and than do that?
Oct 05 08:00:43 <romainguy_> no, there's no such official procedure
Oct 05 08:01:33 <Dovid> :(
Oct 05 08:01:37 <Dovid> i dont mind flashin it
Oct 05 08:02:33 <romainguy_> as I said, your hardware must meet the basic requirements of Android
Oct 05 08:02:37 <romainguy_> and you need the appropriate drivers
Oct 05 08:03:09 <mazzen> romainguy_: nothing official, but something with more explanatory notes than just "take this patch and patch the kernel and flash it"
Oct 05 08:03:24 <romainguy_> I have no idea
Oct 05 08:03:31 <romainguy_> I know how to flash a G1 and that's about it ^^
Oct 05 08:03:50 <mazzen> ok :-)
Oct 05 08:05:45 <mickrobk> ok, how do u reflash a G1?
Oct 05 08:06:18 <romainguy_> with the flashing tool :)
Oct 05 08:07:06 <mickrobk> lol :'|
Oct 05 08:26:42 <anno^da> Talking about the IM app. Is there one contact list for all the messengers or do I have to step through the different accounts and their connected buddy lists ?
Oct 05 10:56:41 <Acsia> hello everybody
Oct 05 10:59:35 <pjv> hello Acsia
Oct 05 11:00:11 <Acsia> hi pjv, anybody working on instrumentation?
Oct 05 11:02:33 <pjv> don't know, but: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Instrumentation.html
Oct 05 11:03:45 <Acsia> I ve been trying to set that up
Oct 05 11:03:56 <Acsia> the onDestroy or onStart does not seem to be called
Oct 05 11:04:03 <Acsia> while onCreate yes
Oct 05 11:04:35 <pjv> can't help you, sorry
Oct 05 11:04:59 <Acsia> no worries
Oct 05 11:05:13 <Acsia> been breaking my head on testing and instrumentation
Oct 05 11:23:12 <damienix> witam
Oct 05 11:23:39 <damienix> hi
Oct 05 11:24:09 <Acsia> I wish I was
Oct 05 11:24:53 <damienix> is there sb who can programming on Android?
Oct 05 11:25:34 <Acsia> yes
Oct 05 11:26:19 <anno^da> Does anybod now if Android contains some mechanism to protect private data if the phone is stolen or you lost it some different way ?
Oct 05 11:26:51 <damienix> isn't it too hard?
Oct 05 11:27:02 <anno^da> I dont know we carry more and more private things around but dont really protect them. Some encryption would be nice.
Oct 05 11:27:26 <Acsia> well there is this kind of login mechanism to the phone which is quite cool
Oct 05 11:27:31 <Acsia> gesture recognition
Oct 05 11:27:34 <anno^da> yeah I know that bzt well
Oct 05 11:27:48 <Acsia> not sure about encryption
Oct 05 11:27:51 <anno^da> But thats no real security :P
Oct 05 11:28:02 <anno^da> That like the PIN on normal mobiles.
Oct 05 11:28:17 <Acsia> you know there is this app which would give you the location if you send an sms
Oct 05 11:28:42 <Acsia> you could do further by destroying your data
Oct 05 11:28:53 <anno^da> Yeah I know this kind of mechanisms. Just wanted to know if there is something integrated already :-)
Oct 05 11:29:08 <Acsia> not as far as I know
Oct 05 11:29:21 <anno^da> Just thought about this. We add mail, instant messaging, addresse, calendar etc etc on our upcoming devices.
Oct 05 11:30:00 <anno^da> Just about everything private. So it should be protected effectifly protected.
Oct 05 11:30:06 <anno^da> -protected
Oct 05 11:30:06 <Acsia> I agree
Oct 05 11:30:30 <damienix> is there a version of android that can be installed on some existing phone besides g1?
Oct 05 11:30:39 <anno^da> Perhaps romainguy_ knows something about that point.
Oct 05 11:30:58 <Acsia> the sms idea is not to bad
Oct 05 11:31:16 <Acsia> as soon you realize your phone is gone, you could potentially completely lock it down
Oct 05 11:31:44 <Acsia> especially that you would receive the sms as soon as you turn the phone on
Oct 05 11:32:26 <Acsia> it s quite painful to enter passwords each time as well
Oct 05 11:32:33 <Acsia> especially if there is no keyboard
Oct 05 11:32:42 <Acsia> so users will tend to save it
Oct 05 11:38:17 <anno^da> Yeah thats true
Oct 05 11:39:51 <anno^da> I would prefer some mechanism that encrypts the system after locking the screen. I dont bother about entering a password. But I think that encrypting the whole system would be too slow at the moment.
Oct 05 11:51:26 <loke_> anno^da: wouldn't using an ecrypted filesystem be a better idea?
Oct 05 11:51:39 <anno^da> Yeah sure.
Oct 05 11:51:48 <anno^da> That would be nice.
Oct 05 16:59:07 <dob1> hi, i am trying to run the  helloworld example from android sdk, but i am not able to do this, i get this "Error generating final archive: keystore was tampered or password incorrect" from eclipse
Oct 05 16:59:11 <dob1> how can i resolve this?
Oct 05 17:10:47 <dob1> in 2 days after at least 20 hours here nobody answer me, is this just a parking channel?
Oct 05 17:22:59 <ahaberlach> dob1: Hmm -- that's strange.
Oct 05 17:23:04 <ahaberlach> Is this on Windows, OSX, or Linux?
Oct 05 17:23:38 <ahaberlach> The "keystore" in question is used to sign your .apks.  When the Eclipse plug-in is first run, it should generate some sample keys to use, and they're valid for a while (and if they had expired, you'd get a different message).
Oct 05 17:23:52 <ahaberlach> I'm not sure why the system is having trouble reading the keystore, though.
Oct 05 17:27:45 <dob1> ahaberlach: i tried to reinstall all yesterday, now i found some info on a forum, the problems is (i think) the debug.keystore
Oct 05 17:27:51 <dob1> i deleted it and nothing works
Oct 05 17:27:57 <dob1> now i delete the project too
Oct 05 17:28:01 <dob1> and seems working
Oct 05 17:28:24 <dob1> but it's not good if i have to recreate the project on eclipse to get it working
Oct 05 17:29:13 <ahaberlach> Yeah, that's kind of sucky.
Oct 05 17:29:22 <ahaberlach> Although I'd like to know how you ended up with an invalid keystore.
Oct 05 17:29:45 <ahaberlach> xavd would probably know best, but I'm not sure how active he is on the channel.
Oct 05 17:30:00 <dob1> if i read correct, but i am not sure of this, can be because i had gcj installed too, and it used it to create the keystore(?)
Oct 05 17:30:03 <dob1> can be?
Oct 05 17:30:38 <ahaberlach> Possibly -- I only know the general stuff, but it sounds plausible that gcj's cert creating/signing stuff doesn't work cleanly with Eclipse.
Oct 05 17:31:10 <dob1> now seems working, but i am just a beginner, i don't know how to test it correct
Oct 05 17:47:36 <anno^da> Does someone know if there is a possibility in Bazaar (bzr) to exclude some files from a branch?
Oct 05 17:47:46 <anno^da> (like the R.java :) )
Oct 05 17:55:39 <taaz> bzr ignore --help
Oct 05 18:00:14 <anno^da> great thank you :-)
Oct 05 18:03:35 <ttuttle> Greetings.
Oct 05 19:00:01 <gary|> hello, does anyone know how to make a textview autoscroll when the data goes past the last line?
Oct 05 20:15:00 <ahaberlach> gary| : Do you have it wrapped in a ScrollView?
Oct 05 20:15:09 <gary|> yes
Oct 05 20:15:10 * ahaberlach really has no idea, but wanted to say something.  :)
Oct 05 20:15:18 <gary|> heh
Oct 05 20:15:41 <gary|> i tried different methods, scrollTo(), new Scroller, then scrollTo
Oct 05 20:16:03 <gary|> with Scroller, it cuts of the text I scrolled from and I can't get back up
Oct 05 20:16:19 <gary|> s/get/scroll
Oct 05 20:17:47 <ahaberlach> No idea, off the top of my head, and I'm not sure where to check for an example.
Oct 05 20:19:40 <f00f-> you want text to scroll though
Oct 05 20:19:43 <f00f-> is this a list item?
Oct 05 20:19:52 <f00f-> you probably need to connect an onselected listener
Oct 05 20:19:55 <f00f-> and tell it to scroll
Oct 05 20:20:24 <f00f-> tell the child TextView to scroll
Oct 05 20:20:27 <gary|> it's a textview
Oct 05 20:22:40 <jasta> sigh, didnt get any dev done yesterday because my PC was broken :(
Oct 05 20:22:45 <jasta> SATA controller died :(
Oct 05 20:23:56 <unix_infidel> RAID?
Oct 05 20:24:12 <jasta> nope
Oct 05 20:26:00 <gary|> mmm, enough for today me thinks
Oct 05 20:26:48 <gary|> laters
Oct 05 20:27:38 <unix_infidel> heh, been thinking about doing RAID, reminds me I need to pull out the 500GB drive for backups.
Oct 05 20:27:48 <jasta> i do raid on an external server
Oct 05 20:28:16 <jasta> 5 300GB drives
Oct 05 20:28:40 <jasta> hardware raid, with hot-swappable drives
Oct 05 20:28:49 <unix_infidel> ya, I would consider that, but it'd only be useful for an outward facing server, but my upload speeds are terrible.
Oct 05 20:29:12 <jasta> i live in a house with 4 guys, so it's a community server
Oct 05 20:29:16 <jasta> though i own it
Oct 05 20:29:22 <unix_infidel> also a viable scenario.
Oct 05 20:33:20 <ahaberlach> I host my stuff at http://slicehost.com but maintain a local Samba server.
Oct 05 20:33:39 <ahaberlach> I used to do a bunch of software RAID, but it was PITA so now I use rsnapshot to roll backups onto an external drive.
Oct 05 20:33:59 <ahaberlach> http://www.rsnapshot.org/
Oct 05 20:34:38 <tomgibara> is there any guidance on the recommended key alg. or key size for signing android apps?
Oct 05 20:45:10 <umdk1d3> tomgibara: ive just used keytool+jarsign with defaults and it seemed to work
Oct 05 20:47:20 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: :) just working isn't good enough
Oct 05 20:48:14 <tomgibara> I want to know that I'm making the best choices, certificates and keys live a long time
Oct 05 20:48:58 <tomgibara> for example, what is the baseline compatibility for android devices?
Oct 05 20:50:48 <zhobbs> tomgibara: hmm, I didn't think about it either, but you're probably right...my cert expires in 6 months...does that mean that I'll have to change my cert in 6 months and the user will lose their data on updating my app
Oct 05 20:52:18 <tomgibara> zhobbs: It *might* mean that the user can't upgrade from the old version to the new one - that even though they have the same package, they will be regarded as incompatible apps (because the signature on the apk determines the process UID)
Oct 05 20:52:44 <zhobbs> yeah, that's scary....
Oct 05 20:52:57 <tomgibara> I think it's probable
Oct 05 20:55:19 <zhobbs> so can you make them never expire?
Oct 05 20:56:12 <tomgibara> I don't know
Oct 05 20:56:16 <tomgibara> The one I'm using personally for my own small apps is set to expire in 30yrs, that should be long enough.
Oct 05 20:56:33 <tomgibara> 1024bit RSA, fairly standard imo
Oct 05 20:56:33 <zhobbs> yeah
Oct 05 20:56:52 <tomgibara> I chose something basic on the assumption that it will be supported
Oct 05 20:57:36 <tomgibara> the problem is that I don't know enough to make good choices on my own, I need some guidance
Oct 05 20:57:48 <tomgibara> (and I speak as someone who's actually implemented some of these algorithms)
Oct 05 21:07:34 <tomgibara> I just tried it out, installing the same application with a consistent package and different cert is rejected (by the emulator anyway)
Oct 05 21:07:56 <umdk1d3> i assume that market would show the error to a user, and allow them to uninstall the old version before reinstalling again
Oct 05 21:08:19 <umdk1d3> (it might show "upgrade"/"uninstall" buttons)
Oct 05 21:08:36 <tomgibara> Perhaps, but the issue is with apps that persist state for that user, that state becomes inaccessible
Oct 05 21:08:52 <umdk1d3> well in the case of an uninstall its wiped
Oct 05 21:09:00 <tomgibara> that's what I mean
Oct 05 21:10:20 <umdk1d3> ive wondered about this:  how many developers would find it useful to have a simple storage service (key->value pairs) that was synced to the cloud?  automatically tied to the persons google acct
Oct 05 21:10:52 <umdk1d3> as long as that data is lightweight, it seems like it would be valuable with minimal cost
Oct 05 21:11:38 <tomgibara> Yes something as simple as the SharedPreferences API would be enough
Oct 05 21:12:54 <umdk1d3> and if they extended SharedPreferences under the hood, it could handle syncing logic without devs having to see it
Oct 05 21:12:56 <tomgibara> Several of these ideas are only really feasible when either its available as part of the standard libraries, or the apk infrastructure is good enough to support dependencies etc.
Oct 05 21:13:21 <umdk1d3> standard libraries for sure
Oct 05 21:13:43 <umdk1d3> another thing we had considered writing was a error dump helper
Oct 05 21:13:44 <tomgibara> The semantics of the SharedPreferences api are already consistent with asynchronous updates
Oct 05 21:14:14 <umdk1d3> watching logcat for deadly errors from your app, then sending the log back to your app in a special intent
Oct 05 21:14:15 <tomgibara> You can't just throw everything into the standard libraries of the platform :)
Oct 05 21:14:31 <umdk1d3> right, this second idea would be a separate package maybe
Oct 05 21:14:41 <umdk1d3> it would just handle stack traces or soemthing
Oct 05 21:14:54 <umdk1d3> i havent looked to see if an app can get full access to logcat data tho
Oct 05 21:16:04 <umdk1d3> "slightly private information about what is happening on the device, but should never contain the user's private information. "
Oct 05 21:16:19 <umdk1d3> and as long as we filter by PID or something it should be decent
Oct 05 21:18:05 <tomgibara> I haven't looked into that sort of possibility at all.
Oct 05 21:20:58 <zhobbs> I need some heap analysis tools...android's heap dumps don't work with jhat, jprobe, etc
Oct 05 21:21:36 <tomgibara> zhobbs: Still hunting?
Oct 05 21:21:44 <zhobbs> yeah
Oct 05 21:25:28 <tomgibara> http://www.tomgibara.com/android/pinpoint/
Oct 05 21:25:58 <tomgibara> ^^ I'd be grateful if anyone with a device could tell me if actually works
Oct 05 21:26:07 <zhobbs> you're busy!
Oct 05 21:26:19 <tomgibara> :) just one of many
Oct 05 21:26:34 <tomgibara> I'm only just finding a bit of time to publish some of my work
Oct 05 21:27:02 <tomgibara> this one was an experiment in minimalism, so it's only small
Oct 05 21:29:30 <kingkung> hello?
Oct 05 21:29:54 <kingkung> anybody home?
Oct 05 21:46:18 * ahaberlach installs pinpoint.
Oct 05 21:47:49 * tomgibara thanks ahaberlach but reminds that SMSs may cost money to send and receive
Oct 05 21:51:35 <ahaberlach> Hmm.  No sign that the incoming SMS was handled by anything related to PinPoint.  No GPS in-use indicator on.
Oct 05 21:55:52 <tomgibara> :( Not having a device, I'm not sure I can do anything until I do. But thanks for trying it
Oct 05 21:56:19 <ahaberlach> I'll poke at it.  Do you know if the 'locate' in the incoming SMS is case-sensitive?
Oct 05 21:56:32 <tomgibara> no, it's not case sensitive
Oct 05 21:56:32 <ahaberlach> It's also possible I just didn't wait long enough, since it should be trying to get a GPS fix, and that takes a bit.
Oct 05 21:56:47 <ahaberlach> (And this particular device was waiting to reboot for an update anyway)
Oct 05 21:57:14 <tomgibara> that should still show the GPS signal icon though, if it was trying to obtain the location?
Oct 05 21:57:55 <tomgibara> it does debug logging, under the tag "pinpoint"
Oct 05 21:58:18 <ahaberlach> D/pinpoint(  327): Got SMS, continuing
Oct 05 21:58:18 <ahaberlach> D/pinpoint(  327): Enabled, continuing
Oct 05 21:58:18 <ahaberlach> D/pinpoint(  327): Pin set, continuing
Oct 05 21:58:37 <tomgibara> and it ends there?
Oct 05 21:58:49 <ahaberlach> Ah, I didn't have the GPS turned on for this device (it's off by default)
Oct 05 21:59:27 <tomgibara> It should check for that and fall back to network triangulation
Oct 05 21:59:53 <tomgibara> is that supported on the devices?
Oct 05 22:00:07 <ahaberlach> Yep
Oct 05 22:00:24 <tomgibara> basically it should process the list of location providers based on the user preferences, until it finds one thats enabled
Oct 05 22:00:27 <ahaberlach> Although T-Mobile's 3G network is so new that we don't have it yet in all locations.
Oct 05 22:00:54 <tomgibara> It could might be a bug, the emulator only emulates GPS - it's never been tested with anything else
Oct 05 22:05:13 <tomgibara> ahaberlach: if the log doesn't contain "Locate found, continuing" it means that the "locate *PIN*" wasn't located in the SMS
Oct 05 22:06:13 <ahaberlach> Ah, I never saw that, then.
Oct 05 22:06:23 <ahaberlach> I'll double-check my PIN and resend.
Oct 05 22:06:30 <tomgibara> It's possible that receiving SMS messages isn't available to apps on the devices
Oct 05 22:06:58 <tomgibara> it works in the emulator, but the intent constants were pulled, so it's not clear if it's supported or not.
Oct 05 22:07:32 <tomgibara> it got the intent though...
Oct 05 22:08:01 <ahaberlach> D/pinpoint(  327): Got SMS, continuing
Oct 05 22:08:01 <ahaberlach> D/pinpoint(  327): Enabled, continuing
Oct 05 22:08:01 <ahaberlach> D/pinpoint(  327): Pin set, continuing
Oct 05 22:08:01 <ahaberlach> D/pinpoint(  327): Locate found, continuing
Oct 05 22:08:01 <ahaberlach> D/pinpoint(  327): Origin present, continuing
Oct 05 22:08:09 <ahaberlach> Aha!  And the GPS indicator is now on.
Oct 05 22:08:21 <tomgibara> great!
Oct 05 22:08:34 <ahaberlach> Either I mis-set my PIN or something got confused there.
Oct 05 22:09:54 <tomgibara> I think what's happened is that I've made a stupid error :)
Oct 05 22:10:03 <tomgibara> had you restarted the device?
Oct 05 22:10:20 <ahaberlach> Yeah, I think so
Oct 05 22:10:44 <ahaberlach> Ok, i just got a reply SMS saying "location unknown: Failed to obtain a location."
Oct 05 22:11:18 <ahaberlach> The GPS, at least on my not-final-production device, is pretty unreliable indoors.  You may want to arrange a fallback to network-based location, since it's much more reliable (if usually much less accurate)
Oct 05 22:11:20 <tomgibara> how long does it take to get a 'lock on' with GPS?
Oct 05 22:11:34 <ahaberlach> 30-40 seconds when standing under a blue sky.
Oct 05 22:12:29 <tomgibara> Okay, I have decent timeout on getting the location, but I think I'm not falling back when obtaining a location fails, only when the provider is not enabled.
Oct 05 22:13:07 <tomgibara> thanks, that was really useful, I'll make some adjustments
Oct 05 22:13:35 <ahaberlach> No problem
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