**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 07 02:59:57 2008 Oct 07 03:06:24 oy Oct 07 03:30:53 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/06/dziuba_android/ Oct 07 03:39:38 dziuba trolls and gets paid to do it via the Register. Oct 07 03:42:35 good to be paid ;) Oct 07 03:44:44 why is that trolling? Oct 07 03:45:38 it seems like an article, for the most part.. is positive about android, the only negativity i can see.. is saying that it might not succeed because the economy is bad ? Oct 07 03:46:42 ahh i see, it contains profanity Oct 07 03:46:51 i didnt actually notice until i read the comments about it.. lol Oct 07 03:47:00 americans are funny Oct 07 03:47:46 In any event, Google's if-you-build-it-they-will-come approach is probably no match for a slowing economy. The phone will be priced at $179, but Google and T-Mobile will likely be able to flood the market and start eating Apple's lunch if they accept collateralized debt objects in lieu of cash Oct 07 03:48:37 snadge: I didn't read the article, I just have read previous dziuba articles, most of which are trolling Oct 07 03:49:01 The first part of the tutorial is a Hello, World. Once I get beyond that, I want to do something neat. The second part of the tutorial is a notepad application. Notepad? It's a cell phone with all sorts of gizmos. Show me how to make it beep and shit. Oct 07 03:49:10 lol Oct 07 03:49:11 I don't give the Reg my clicks. Oct 07 03:50:02 Sergey Brin wrote a game changing, disruptive application that detects how long the phone stays in the air when you throw it. Fascinating. Oct 07 03:50:07 haha Oct 07 03:50:24 i think its a cool neat idea Oct 07 03:50:44 throw up in the air and do some fascinating stuff Oct 07 03:51:00 as some was saying, exchange your contacts Oct 07 03:51:03 etc., Oct 07 03:51:34 you could do that by throwing your phone at someone Oct 07 03:51:39 here have my contacts *piff* :p Oct 07 03:51:56 hehe Oct 07 03:52:20 here's some profanity - WARNING Oct 07 03:52:27 PG 18 Oct 07 03:52:43 or remove someones contacts by shoving it up their ass Oct 07 03:52:50 lol Oct 07 03:52:57 people read the article as if he was complaining about android Oct 07 03:53:19 hes just writes in a very rough, casual style.. like a lazy programmer would talk to his mates at the pub Oct 07 03:53:26 its good to read that for a change Oct 07 03:53:51 guess its british humor Oct 07 03:53:54 saying that he wants to make the phone "beep and shit" instead of the notepad example or whatever.. isn't really even a criticism Oct 07 03:53:59 its more of a commentary Oct 07 03:54:41 and saying the phone should give him some kind of reason why he is coding for it instead of sitting on the couch drinking beer.. is also a valid point Oct 07 03:55:09 again, i dont think thats criticism.. i can relate to that.. im a lazy nerd Oct 07 03:55:24 i don't think sergey said it was game changing or disruptive Oct 07 03:55:25 the app Oct 07 03:55:39 i think that was a sarcastic form of humour Oct 07 03:55:49 rather than a genuine stab at sergey Oct 07 03:56:15 being australian, thats how i interpreted it Oct 07 03:58:04 living_sword: oh there it is Oct 07 03:58:30 yeah Oct 07 03:59:42 hey ppl, anything interesting been posted in the channel in the last few days? I've been offline. Oct 07 04:00:08 i think its funny all these people got upset about the profanity and posted in the defense of android Oct 07 04:00:40 when the article is clearly a tounge in cheek style .. take it or leave it piece, designed to cause the type of discussion that is happening now Oct 07 04:01:09 snadge: nobody is upset Oct 07 04:01:13 at least I'm not Oct 07 04:01:31 i'd even say that it was a pro android article.. and only those offended by "potty mouths" and interpret things the wrong way could see otherwise Oct 07 04:02:36 I'm just pointing out that Dzibua spends most of his time trolling for the Register, who likes to employ columnists who troll as it's the only way they can keep up getting clicks. Oct 07 04:02:43 kind of reflects poorly on the register.. but oh well Oct 07 04:03:03 for Brit-style tech news I like The Inquirer better Oct 07 04:03:14 exactly .. and thats something that will either make you read the article anyway.. or boycott the register in disgust Oct 07 04:03:47 i found it humorous and got entertainment value from it Oct 07 04:03:54 hey, more power to ya Oct 07 04:04:23 gambler_: you missed the big news Oct 07 04:04:35 muthu, lay it on me Oct 07 04:04:47 G1 on Oct 22!!!! Oct 07 04:04:52 yay Oct 07 04:05:07 haha Oct 07 04:06:55 ok so...If my Service executes a callback into my Activity when its not in the foreground, I am getting a stacktrace. Oct 07 04:07:17 Is there a preferred idiom for how to wake up my activity? sure is a hell of alot of boilerplate to do a little IPC Oct 07 04:08:32 handler Oct 07 04:08:46 gambler: to wake up the activity you would fire an intent. Oct 07 04:08:55 and do notifications from service Oct 07 04:09:15 notifications is the recommended practice Oct 07 04:09:19 and when the activity is closed, the IPC is severed. it is your error that your activity didn't unregister any listeners. Oct 07 04:09:38 yes, muthu is right. you need to consider why you arent to wake up an activity this way Oct 07 04:09:57 what if, for example, the user is in the middle of a call? they will not appreciate you slapping them with your activity Oct 07 04:10:04 correct Oct 07 04:10:14 why you want to*, i meant Oct 07 04:10:53 the call wont terminate though would it, it will just be a different screen. Oct 07 04:11:03 it will be an annoying screen on top of the call Oct 07 04:11:10 in this situation notification isnt enough Oct 07 04:11:16 that you've designed your UI this way indicates to me that it is wrong Oct 07 04:11:37 if the user has left your activity they have told you something: they aren't interested in it anymore. Oct 07 04:11:48 jasta: its based on context awareness...the UI fits the geography Oct 07 04:12:06 so why is a notification not good enough? Oct 07 04:12:32 because then they would have to navigate to the app every time. If its running they want to receive the activity not just a notification. Oct 07 04:12:37 (that said, you *can* wake up an activity) Oct 07 04:12:52 you do so through an intent, as i said before Oct 07 04:13:37 right...ok I can do that, just making sure that was the right way. It seems like errors could occur if there is any lag / ordering problems Oct 07 04:13:44 you'd use an intent-filter actually, which would be the thing that opens your activity Oct 07 04:14:04 you can't use your custom IPC for this, though. Oct 07 04:14:22 i mean, your activity registering listeners won't do any good once the activity is closed. Oct 07 04:14:28 and, actually, it's expected to unregister those listeners in onStop Oct 07 04:16:13 hmm ok Oct 07 04:16:58 use callbacks only when binding Oct 07 04:17:06 else use notifications Oct 07 04:26:59 * muthu testing Oct 07 04:27:13 muthu: not working Oct 07 04:27:27 * muthu not able to see gdsx Oct 07 04:27:55 pidgin is crap Oct 07 04:28:01 suddenly crashes Oct 07 04:28:44 how many apps will be featured on oct 22? Oct 07 04:28:51 raise your hand Oct 07 04:28:56 * muthu raises hand Oct 07 04:29:28 100? Oct 07 04:29:51 hi what is your app? Oct 07 04:31:00 http://mobeegal.in Oct 07 04:31:09 hmm.. slideme launches oct 28 Oct 07 04:31:26 market launches 22nd Oct 07 04:31:48 but the paid apps will go to slideme Oct 07 04:31:52 or handango Oct 07 04:38:31 photostream seems to be most popular in apps-for-android Oct 07 04:40:23 I added a cool new feature btw Oct 07 04:41:43 yeah, i check it out everyday Oct 07 04:42:28 you should try to open a flickr URL (like http://flickr.com/photos/romainguy) and see what happens Oct 07 04:42:42 that's what Maps does as well Oct 07 04:43:01 let me see.. Oct 07 04:43:19 by opening, I don't mean typing it in the browser Oct 07 04:43:37 you would need to click this URL in a web page, an email, as a home shortcut, etc. Oct 07 04:46:15 If all I want is a bitmap that I can write to/from, do I want to extend surfaceview, or canvas? Oct 07 04:46:32 (complete n00b to android, porting older java App.) Oct 07 04:47:26 ah, nice Oct 07 04:47:31 like the progress bar and updates Oct 07 04:47:38 still haven't tried the url Oct 07 04:48:12 chrismurf: use a Canvas Oct 07 04:48:20 first create the Bitmap, then a Canvas tied to that Bitmap Oct 07 04:48:34 romainguy, thanks -- Why canvas instead of SurfaceView? Oct 07 04:48:43 because that's not SurfaceView's purpose Oct 07 04:49:15 SurfaceView gives you a special surface (or window if you prefer) on which you can draw natively or with special APIs like OpenGL Oct 07 04:50:38 Okay - I'm just confused by the docs, it seems like Canvas is a SurfaceView extended to have a bunch of drawArc / drawRect / drawWhatever methods, no? Oct 07 04:50:45 not at all Oct 07 04:50:53 Canvas is not a SurfaceView Oct 07 04:51:02 forget about SurfaceView for now, just use Canvas :) Oct 07 04:51:26 Okay - noted :-) Oct 07 04:51:52 Realizing I'm contradicting myself a bit, will I regret it later if I target Canvas and want things to scale when I rotate the screen? Oct 07 04:52:01 (I realize that's sort of a limitation of bitmaps...) Oct 07 04:52:01 romainguy: so photostream hijacks the flickr url ;) Oct 07 04:52:14 chrismurf: SurfaceView would not help you more Oct 07 04:52:19 what are you trying to do exactly? Oct 07 04:52:41 muthu: that's actually a nice way to expand web site and enrich them :) Oct 07 04:53:00 agreed Oct 07 04:53:11 users would love these Oct 07 04:53:31 basically port a java-based emulator. Oct 07 04:53:42 NES emulator? Oct 07 04:53:54 Don't want to give everything away ;-) Oct 07 04:53:55 but no Oct 07 04:53:58 :) Oct 07 04:53:59 I'll dig into Canvas - thanks for the help Oct 07 04:54:04 ok, so you're not who you think you could have been :p Oct 07 04:54:12 for an emulator you want SurfaceView Oct 07 04:54:19 haha Oct 07 04:54:41 the key difference is that with SurfaceView you have to create a thread that refreshes the screen in a loop Oct 07 04:54:42 okay - it's significantly higher performance? Oct 07 04:54:47 just like the way games are usually writtent Oct 07 04:54:48 -t Oct 07 04:54:59 with a regular Canvas/View approach, you need to use invalidate() calls Oct 07 04:55:07 I see Oct 07 04:55:08 that are expensive (about 4ms per frame) Oct 07 04:55:14 ouch - yeah Oct 07 04:55:18 because it's meant to refresh a full View hierarchy Oct 07 04:55:19 I just want to basically have a framebuffer Oct 07 04:55:22 and it supports animations, etc. Oct 07 04:55:48 okay - SurfaceView it is Oct 07 04:55:53 pain, here I come :-) Oct 07 04:55:57 Thanks for the help Oct 07 04:56:04 SurfaceView is not difficult to use Oct 07 04:56:11 go take a look at the sample called LunarLander in the SDK Oct 07 04:56:18 it shows how to use SurfaceView for a game Oct 07 04:56:21 just what you want :) Oct 07 04:56:28 oh how wonderful, one of the tut's actually is useful :-) Oct 07 04:56:37 * romainguy slaps chrismurf Oct 07 04:56:38 :o Oct 07 04:56:41 haha Oct 07 04:56:44 that's fair Oct 07 04:57:01 fwiw, I work on Android :) Oct 07 04:57:03 * chrismurf should have read those first Oct 07 04:57:19 oh - I'll have to beware disparaging comments then Oct 07 04:57:22 :-P Oct 07 04:57:23 lol Oct 07 04:57:29 i was busy installing ubuntu & couldn't work on my tutorial today Oct 07 04:57:30 so far I'm very impressed with the SDK as a whole Oct 07 04:57:34 romainguy: you've given me some ideas Oct 07 04:57:35 glad to hear that Oct 07 04:57:41 muthu: like what? Oct 07 04:57:45 and I appreciate that I can get help at 1a in IRC from a Dev Oct 07 04:57:45 btw, I tried Cooking Capsuls Oct 07 04:57:46 so, thanks :-) Oct 07 04:57:47 Capsules Oct 07 04:57:48 planning to hack the built in search.. just like you did for photos Oct 07 04:58:01 romainguy: really, how's it? Oct 07 04:58:03 muthu: I didn't hack the built in search? Oct 07 04:58:07 muthu: I like the UI :)) Oct 07 04:58:17 mary ann did a fantastic job Oct 07 04:58:29 that's the first thing everyone says - UI rocks Oct 07 05:02:51 argh Oct 07 05:02:58 just saw a couple of comments about Photostream on Market Oct 07 05:03:03 stupid users :( Oct 07 05:03:47 hehe Oct 07 05:03:53 is it public? Oct 07 05:04:16 yeah Oct 07 05:04:26 they gave very bad ratings because they couldn't add their account Oct 07 05:04:57 because apparently they don't know their own user name Oct 07 05:05:22 haha Oct 07 05:05:45 while ur there check out fingerpaint /blatent plug :P Oct 07 05:05:55 I did Oct 07 05:05:59 where's the link? Oct 07 05:06:21 how'd u like it? Oct 07 05:06:27 I liked it Oct 07 05:06:34 the tools are a bit difficult to use the first time Oct 07 05:07:09 romainguy: the user name is a bit awkward Oct 07 05:07:09 any ideas for making the color chooser more obvious? Oct 07 05:07:19 muthu: not my fault unfortunately :(( Oct 07 05:07:30 muthu: it's the only option Flickr gives me Oct 07 05:07:36 you can only find by user name Oct 07 05:07:37 oh ok Oct 07 05:07:41 u mean translating icons -> what it will do? Oct 07 05:07:42 which is, for many people, not their login name Oct 07 05:07:44 its nice.. once it works Oct 07 05:07:49 mickrobk: yes Oct 07 05:08:38 mickrobk: where's your app? Oct 07 05:08:44 fingerpaint Oct 07 05:08:51 unfortunatly about to renamed tho.... Oct 07 05:08:54 i see only like 5 apps Oct 07 05:09:49 * mickrobk has been trying to figure out how to make it easier to learn on the first run for like 11 months now :/ Oct 07 05:10:12 the market is not public yet, right? Oct 07 05:11:30 oh ok.. the 50 apps will be featured Oct 07 05:11:55 romainguy, since you asked, I'm curious - has somebody already done an NES Emulator? (I'm not doing one, but I'll want one :-) ) Oct 07 05:12:26 I know of someone who's porting one Oct 07 05:13:16 fantastic Oct 07 05:14:34 where are these apps? Oct 07 05:14:46 wastrel: on the Market, if you have a device Oct 07 05:14:52 ooooooh Oct 07 05:14:58 can't get there from the emulator? Oct 07 05:15:01 no Oct 07 05:15:11 at least not for now Oct 07 05:15:37 22nd will be open to everyone, right? Oct 07 05:15:49 I don't know Oct 07 05:15:55 hmm Oct 07 05:15:55 it will be on the phones, that's for sure Oct 07 05:16:13 i mean, to put the apps on the market Oct 07 05:16:17 I don't know Oct 07 05:16:36 ok Oct 07 05:20:33 romainguy what's the best app so far in market? Oct 07 05:21:02 how do u keep serialization working if you rename classes? Oct 07 05:21:03 my favorites are not public yet :p Oct 07 05:21:04 shit, it sucks to be out of loop Oct 07 05:21:12 now i know how jasta felt! Oct 07 05:21:49 would be interesting to watch the early android apps Oct 07 05:46:34 hahaha muthu Oct 07 05:46:35 sup Oct 07 05:46:46 f00f-: yo Oct 07 05:47:04 send me your device Oct 07 05:47:10 chillen, just had a glass of red wine Oct 07 05:47:13 i wish i had one man Oct 07 05:47:29 you coulda got one Oct 07 05:47:48 let's put the past behind us Oct 07 05:47:54 yeah, depressing Oct 07 05:48:01 probably my biggest regret in the past year Oct 07 05:48:07 hehe Oct 07 05:48:12 mmm, just finished reinstalling eclipse & the sdk and running hello android :] Oct 07 05:48:12 * jasta raises an eyebrow Oct 07 05:48:25 wastrel: just finished reinstalling Oct 07 05:48:27 f00f-: you regret winning $25k? :) Oct 07 05:48:52 actually, maybe not the biggest one :P Oct 07 05:48:54 no jasta, not at all Oct 07 05:49:09 i just hope i can get a device on or after the 22nd Oct 07 05:49:18 you didn't get one from the challenge? Oct 07 05:49:57 no way Oct 07 05:50:02 i got a t-shirt :) Oct 07 05:50:16 lol, that seems like a terrible runner's up prize ;) Oct 07 05:50:21 hell, i got a lousy t-shirt Oct 07 05:50:27 :/ Oct 07 05:50:34 Was it the pirate Android shirt? Those ones rock Oct 07 05:50:39 i hope ADC II is conducted much better Oct 07 05:50:44 it was a skateboarder Oct 07 05:50:47 i got the skateboarder Oct 07 05:50:48 f00f-: was given a choice, and he chose tshirt ;) Oct 07 05:53:03 lol I <3 f00f- for choosing the tshirt.... Oct 07 05:53:08 100 points for style, 0 points for planning ahead Oct 07 06:10:27 hi,anybody who knows how to buy a HTC g1 not from T-Mobile? Oct 07 06:10:49 i want the phone,i don't want T-Mobile's service Oct 07 06:11:19 http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=t-mobile+g1&_sacat=See-All-Categories Oct 07 06:13:21 https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ Oct 07 06:13:32 this is the plugin download site right? Oct 07 06:13:52 yup Oct 07 06:14:09 existence of https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml confirms it Oct 07 06:14:22 eclipse can't connect Oct 07 06:20:52 i had problems a few weeks ago when i reinstalled my OS Oct 07 06:20:58 try http://... Oct 07 06:21:22 ok Oct 07 06:22:18 i've reinstalled linux like 10 times with varying degree of problems Oct 07 06:22:57 muthu: welcome :) Oct 07 06:23:31 f00f-: how's the wine? Oct 07 06:23:44 * f00f- checks stomach Oct 07 06:23:47 seems to be doing fine Oct 07 06:23:58 hehe Oct 07 06:24:01 it's some cheap $7 garbage i use for cooking Oct 07 06:24:04 top it up Oct 07 06:24:05 but the cork is torn so it's leaking away Oct 07 06:24:10 i best drink it before it worsens Oct 07 06:24:19 ha, good choice Oct 07 06:27:14 good to be in pubs these days Oct 07 06:27:20 with smoking banned Oct 07 06:27:41 gambler: http works, thx Oct 07 06:55:15 romainguy, woo - got a bitmap rendering on a surfaceview. Oct 07 06:55:21 :) Oct 07 06:55:24 one small step... Oct 07 07:03:53 how to check if db exists? Oct 07 07:16:00 do we just check if the file.db exists? Oct 07 07:17:05 ha, there's a databaselist method in app Oct 07 07:18:20 looks like context is the goto plae Oct 07 07:18:29 s/plae/place Oct 07 07:19:50 So, are there any good tutorials out there on getting a Android UI going? I have the I/O parts of the app written, and now I need to start building UI... but I'm stumped. Oct 07 07:30:38 Hey Oct 07 07:52:32 muthu: To check for the existence of a db I used context.getDatabasePath(dbName).exists() Oct 07 07:54:35 tomgibara: thx Oct 07 07:55:44 Lenolium: ApiDemos, apps-for-android.googlecode.com Oct 07 07:55:57 hmm Oct 07 07:56:06 jasta: sup Oct 07 07:56:15 (new MediaPlayer()).reset(); seems to freeze the main thread Oct 07 07:56:25 or rather, it just never returns Oct 07 07:56:30 arghhhh... media player is a big mess Oct 07 07:56:53 yup, that's definitely what does it Oct 07 07:58:37 or maybe its more complex than that...maybe calling reset() twice does it Oct 07 07:58:40 my logic isn't quite pure ;) Oct 07 08:07:43 does ListView#getItemIdAtPosition() identical to ListView#getAdapter().getItemId()? Oct 07 08:07:56 err, is* Oct 07 08:08:40 it should be Oct 07 08:10:07 hehe, i'm going back through all my old UI code and revising/rewriting it Oct 07 08:10:21 a lot of goofy stuff has been revealed so far ;) Oct 07 08:18:48 hey Oct 07 08:33:18 * umdk1d3 rolls into town Oct 07 08:33:31 jasta: where did you hear no ogg support? Oct 07 08:34:55 hear? no. i confirmed :) Oct 07 08:35:24 srsly? >:/ that sucks Oct 07 08:35:33 i had been telling people that it supported ogg Oct 07 08:35:41 which was a BIG deal to me Oct 07 08:35:50 well, you were lying! :P Oct 07 08:36:05 no, actually, it supports local playback of oggs, but for some bizarre parallel universe reason it can't stream oggs Oct 07 08:36:15 oh whew Oct 07 08:36:22 (it's never been able to, actually) Oct 07 08:36:36 but to Five, that means it doesn't support oggs ;) Oct 07 08:36:51 i'll need to have the server transcode them on the fly *lame* Oct 07 08:36:52 yea i was gonna say because i thought some of the ringtones were ogg Oct 07 08:37:11 this one really makes no sense. ogg is a streamable format, so how you could support it reading from disk and not reading from a url makes no sense to me Oct 07 08:38:11 i get the feeling that a group at google will be assigned to rewrite media player Oct 07 08:38:21 *rather, the codec implementations under the hood Oct 07 08:38:36 hopefully, it's apparently in bad shape Oct 07 08:39:02 im wondering how it will handle youtube uploading (assuming that will be supported at some point) Oct 07 08:39:15 it wouldnt try encoding mp4 on the phone (would it?) Oct 07 08:39:28 maybe upload low-cpu versions like mjpeg or mpeg1 Oct 07 09:18:01 I think it would be folly to throw away an implementation that's as far progressed as the MediaPlayer is- you would just be swapping one set of bugs for another. Oct 07 09:22:09 i agree in principle, but it seems to be that it is so terribly put together than just sitting down and figuring out what went wrong and largely rebuilding it would help Oct 07 09:22:25 rewriting code is often a lot less work than it was to write it in the first place, remember. Oct 07 09:22:36 re-using the bits that aren't awful, and just refactoring the hell out of it Oct 07 09:22:46 and above all else, testing it this time. Oct 07 09:23:00 the MediaPlayer clearly suffered from a terrible set of test cases, if tehre were even any at all Oct 07 09:23:39 also, the underlying audio mechanism should be exposed to guard against critical limitations of a future design Oct 07 09:24:25 this is ocming from someone who has spent a *lot* of time wrestling with MediaPlayer. trust me, it's very, very broken :) Oct 07 09:29:09 agree.. that's one reason video recording is absent Oct 07 09:29:17 I trust you that it's very broken! I wasn't including 're-using bits' and 'largely rebuilding it' when I said "throw away" - I call that salvaging. Oct 07 09:29:28 muthu: You don't know that Oct 07 09:29:42 ok well in that case, yes i think salvaging it is certainly sensible Oct 07 09:30:02 we don't know.. but looking at the current media player woes.. looks like the android team is behind in terms of video Oct 07 09:30:03 but still, a major effort is necessary to get it in decent shape Oct 07 09:30:29 muthu: It's possible, but perhaps the G1 doesn't have the hardware capacity, or the processor speed (i don't know what's required) Oct 07 09:31:34 jasta: probably, it's the apparent lack of robustness that concerns me: it's very hard to put robustness into a project that never had it Oct 07 09:32:15 well, it's biggest problem is that it's a black box design. robustness exists inside of it, but it doesn't make it out Oct 07 09:32:19 it's clearly very sophisticated Oct 07 09:32:23 it's just designed wrong Oct 07 09:33:28 black boxes buy you time to get your implementation correct Oct 07 09:34:36 that was not what happened here, clearly. Oct 07 09:35:00 the stupid thing doesn't even *work*. it doesn't fulfill it's own very simple contract. Oct 07 09:35:09 hardly any part of it behaves correctly Oct 07 09:36:40 that it behaves badly is a good reason to keep it as a blackbox, if you expose a lot of unproven code via a set of APIs, you're creating a lot of pain for the implementors and the consumers. Oct 07 09:36:49 can't stream ogg vorbis files, seeking forward doesn't properly estimate stream byte offsets, buffer fill percent listeners are implemented as download progress listeners, there's no way to feed it with an arbitrary stream, its errors are undocumented and useless, ... Oct 07 09:36:53 i could even go on! Oct 07 09:37:17 tomgibara: what i'm saying is that it wasn't being paid attention to. it has hardly received attention since M3. Oct 07 09:37:56 oh and my new favorite, calling stop/reset multiple times causes it to block indefinitely Oct 07 09:38:39 there has been little progress, perhaps it received attention and sucked up development hours due to some bad weaknesses Oct 07 09:39:20 at least the only problem with the main API is that it doesn't accept arbitrary input streams Oct 07 09:39:55 everything else at some point could conceivably be fixed Oct 07 09:40:04 just sad to see a 1.0 release with this thing so broken Oct 07 09:40:14 though as they go, a media player that's fussy about its input stream isn't good Oct 07 09:40:17 but hey, i've worked around nearly every issue so far Oct 07 09:40:34 at great time cost to you and a loss in efficiency Oct 07 09:40:46 yup Oct 07 09:40:56 not what you want from a core API Oct 07 09:41:30 What is particularly irritating about the media player is that it's one of the few APIs that you can't sidestep Oct 07 09:41:54 pjv: I didn't get a chance to say thanks yesterday: thanks Oct 07 09:42:58 oh hi, np Oct 07 09:43:42 here's to 1.1 :\ Oct 07 09:45:09 honestly though, i am happy i was able to make my work arounds fit :) Oct 07 09:45:21 i was concerned that it wouldn't even be possible Oct 07 09:45:36 and there are still some big issues, but... Oct 07 09:45:47 seeking forward being broken is particularly annoying :( Oct 07 09:47:16 that seems like a common problem with alot of codecs. Their wacky compression schemes make random access really difficult Oct 07 09:48:02 well, that's why most implement key frames and an index... Oct 07 09:48:12 but in the case of mp3, it's obvious they're not even trying. Oct 07 09:48:19 jasta: do the android apis allow for sparse files? are RandomAccessFiles necessarily sparse? Oct 07 09:48:21 you can feed it constant bitrate files and it still won't get it right. Oct 07 09:49:07 tomgibara: not sure how you mean. Linux supports sparse files, and FileChannel/RandomAccessFile won't clobber that support. Oct 07 09:49:20 pretty strange there is no api to multiplex the speaker. Oct 07 09:49:23 but all that translates to is just seek(). Oct 07 09:50:09 just wondered - I might need to do something similar w/ media player in the future (cache&stream) Oct 07 09:50:41 tomgibara: well, all my code is quite generalized Oct 07 09:50:41 I was thinking that I would use ranges to pull data in and just write them to a file Oct 07 09:50:56 in fact, i have demo code that is totally generalized Oct 07 09:50:59 gah, this probably wouldn't be open source :( Oct 07 09:51:09 then you can't use my code, suckah. Oct 07 09:52:04 anyway, that's my first thought Oct 07 09:52:19 then maintain an index file recording which bits have been downloaded Oct 07 09:52:45 i don't go quite so far for my usage. in particular, i don't support forward seeking Oct 07 09:53:07 the MediaPlayer, however, does have a "short range" forward seek capability because it maintains a read-ahead cache Oct 07 09:53:34 and i support forward seeking anywhere into the received portion of the stream Oct 07 09:53:42 but not beyond, because i don't care to implement yet another hack Oct 07 09:54:56 its a total waste of time hacking all this.. coz they will fix this eventually Oct 07 09:55:07