**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 09 02:59:57 2008 Oct 09 03:34:04 yo mojo Oct 09 03:43:21 any suggestion for kde software Oct 09 03:43:29 am trying kde now Oct 09 03:54:52 muthu: filelight :) Oct 09 03:55:06 what it does? Oct 09 04:00:04 kde 3.5 is better than 4.1 Oct 09 04:01:20 /etc/init.d/WM-DE-Fight start Oct 09 04:01:29 erm, restart.... Oct 09 04:03:18 fights over versions? mk Oct 09 04:04:38 yumex not running in kde Oct 09 04:05:15 it should run...maybe some other process has a lock Oct 09 04:05:34 am having this problem, for a few programs Oct 09 04:05:39 not sure why my kde is broken Oct 09 04:06:13 muthu is it kde 4.x? Its widely regarded as very buggy, even by the kde developers. Oct 09 04:06:23 yup Oct 09 04:06:30 it is buggy Oct 09 04:28:23 4.0 or 4.1 Oct 09 04:28:34 4.1.1 Oct 09 04:53:43 how to set a view id in code? Oct 09 04:55:24 and i don't have an R.id Oct 09 05:13:51 muthu: you looking to create a new R.id? Oct 09 05:14:07 res/values/ids.xml iirc Oct 09 05:14:07 i was trying to Oct 09 05:14:16 instead of having to @+id/something in your layouts Oct 09 05:14:27 ok.. that's what i wanted Oct 09 05:14:32 umdk1d3: actually the file can be named anything you want Oct 09 05:14:54 yep then ... Oct 09 05:14:54 the imagebutton is acting weird Oct 09 05:15:46 suddenly the clicklistener not called Oct 09 05:16:11 romainguy: so im dumping the itunes thing tomorrow ;) Oct 09 05:16:22 a guy at engadget is covering it Oct 09 05:16:47 *dumping=svn+apk+docs all public Oct 09 05:17:00 wow. cool Oct 09 05:17:20 seems to be working mostly well Oct 09 05:17:28 but nobody is sending me bugreports :P Oct 09 05:20:03 umdk1d3: sweeeet Oct 09 05:20:08 umdk1d3: did you fix the UI? :) Oct 09 05:20:18 lol which part? Oct 09 05:20:29 the album art flashing is gone Oct 09 05:20:33 ah good Oct 09 05:20:36 and the default art? Oct 09 05:20:41 that was showing from time to time Oct 09 05:20:41 eh its still black Oct 09 05:20:46 ohhhh lol Oct 09 05:20:50 yep i got rid of that Oct 09 05:20:53 its just black now Oct 09 05:20:58 cool :) Oct 09 05:21:08 also doing more-secure pairing now Oct 09 05:21:18 before was using a static code of 0000000000000001 :P Oct 09 05:21:27 :)) Oct 09 05:31:19 Toast.show? Oct 09 05:31:26 this can go in as a joke Oct 09 05:32:04 Toast.maketext.. why can't this be shown auto? Oct 09 05:32:19 ?? Oct 09 05:32:24 or..Toast.showtext would be ideal Oct 09 05:32:28 because you can create a toast in advance and keep it around Oct 09 05:32:32 and then show it when you need to Oct 09 05:32:34 right Oct 09 05:32:41 note that you can just write Toast.makeText().show() Oct 09 05:32:48 which is an excellent compromise Oct 09 05:32:50 yeah yeah Oct 09 05:33:13 make it easier for us man! Oct 09 05:33:52 hey romainguy, does the alertdialog multiplechoice work with cursor? Oct 09 05:34:10 the selected columns are losing the checks Oct 09 05:34:57 muthu: Toast.makeText().show() is not easy enough? Oct 09 05:35:05 hehe Oct 09 05:35:11 see how spoiled we are ;) Oct 09 05:35:24 no, it just trips me sometimes Oct 09 05:36:02 what's wrong with Toast.showText() ? Oct 09 05:36:15 Toast.show () ? Oct 09 05:36:31 there's nothing wrong with it Oct 09 05:36:35 but it's another API to add Oct 09 05:36:38 clutter in the doc Oct 09 05:36:40 more to support Oct 09 05:36:49 yeah, i know Oct 09 05:36:52 if you really can't type makeText().show(), file a feature request Oct 09 05:36:54 it coulda been Toast.show Oct 09 05:37:11 as I said, you WANT the ability to create a Toast without showing it Oct 09 05:37:28 the most common usecase is to show it off right away Oct 09 05:37:39 hence makeText().show()... Oct 09 05:37:39 i don't see anyone caching their toast Oct 09 05:38:01 make your toast and eat it right there, not later :) Oct 09 05:42:18 mmmm /me considers eating toast Oct 09 05:42:35 umdk1d3: working nights again? Oct 09 05:42:40 lol yea Oct 09 05:42:46 putting together a vid for tmrw Oct 09 05:42:46 hehe Oct 09 05:42:53 nice Oct 09 05:43:05 i suppose its days for you tho :) Oct 09 05:43:15 yup Oct 09 05:43:22 its an holiday season here Oct 09 05:43:27 so everyone's off except me Oct 09 05:44:17 goog dev day is on 18th here in bangalore Oct 09 05:44:46 ooh lucky :) Oct 09 05:44:54 you should grab a device and run Oct 09 05:45:03 yeah, if they let me near it Oct 09 05:45:05 j/k :P Oct 09 05:45:17 hmmm, if I add a toast or a notification in my service I get an app crash Oct 09 05:55:55 gambler: what's the error? Oct 09 06:07:31 the anr traces.txt is all I get. its here: http://pastebin.com/m41a0b3fb Oct 09 06:08:53 i dont really see any of my code mentioned in those stack traces Oct 09 06:11:09 ANR means you are blocking Oct 09 06:11:26 yep, the notification happens right before i go into a blocking loop Oct 09 06:11:39 dont block the main thread Oct 09 06:11:47 this is its own thread Oct 09 06:11:54 it works fine w/o the notification Oct 09 06:12:05 i got rid of a bunch of ANRs yesterday Oct 09 06:12:13 post back using handlers Oct 09 06:12:29 :( ahh ok Oct 09 06:12:53 you mean to the activity rite? Oct 09 06:12:58 yeah Oct 09 06:13:33 i already get my activity to pop-up when its not being used. Oct 09 06:13:38 so whats the point of a notification then Oct 09 06:13:56 notification is recommended from async Oct 09 06:14:03 or you using bind or start? Oct 09 06:14:09 start = async Oct 09 06:14:12 bind = sync Oct 09 06:14:16 both Oct 09 06:14:25 ok.. then do the right thing Oct 09 06:14:31 in start.. use notifications Oct 09 06:14:37 for bind.. use callbacks Oct 09 06:15:45 that thread originates in my ServiceImpls onStart method Oct 09 06:16:11 ohhey it just told me that romainguy_ added new pics lol Oct 09 06:16:20 :)) Oct 09 06:16:36 yosemite valley pic looks very nice--slight hdr on the clouds? Oct 09 06:16:40 no HDR Oct 09 06:17:02 i liked "artist palette" Oct 09 06:17:25 where? Oct 09 06:17:59 photostream (or flickr) Oct 09 06:18:42 ok Oct 09 06:19:44 I have tons of pictures coming up Oct 09 06:19:57 especially from Antelope Canyon Oct 09 06:20:02 and Monument Valley Oct 09 06:27:59 roooooooofl i just got my first at+t bill with data usage Oct 09 06:28:16 its loooooooong Oct 09 06:28:24 I just got my last one :) Oct 09 06:28:37 how much for unlimited? Oct 09 06:29:05 im paying 75/mo for 450min+unlim night/wk+unlim att customers+unlim txt+unlim data Oct 09 06:29:29 shit Oct 09 06:29:33 too many + Oct 09 06:29:45 umdk1d3: ouch Oct 09 06:29:49 that seems like a lot Oct 09 06:30:02 heard its like 40 bucks Oct 09 06:30:08 from spring Oct 09 06:30:11 s/g/t Oct 09 06:30:21 well sure, the data plan is $30/mo, but when you add in all the other stuff Oct 09 06:30:22 umdk1d3: that's what I was paying Oct 09 06:30:24 T-Mobile is cheaper Oct 09 06:30:34 romainguy_: yea but they dont have any freaking APNs here in montana Oct 09 06:30:35 :P Oct 09 06:30:39 I know pay $55 for all that Oct 09 06:30:47 come work here :p Oct 09 06:30:53 lol Oct 09 06:31:11 ooh thankfully i got it without a commitment =D so i can cancel at any time Oct 09 06:31:30 umdk1d3: get the sims from ebay Oct 09 06:31:41 unlimited for 10$ Oct 09 06:32:04 lol those sound... shady :P Oct 09 06:32:13 lots use them Oct 09 06:32:19 feedback is good Oct 09 06:38:20 almost done with this feature \o/ Oct 09 07:05:58 romainguy_: what are you working on? Oct 09 07:09:20 gdsx: photostream Oct 09 07:09:28 apps-for-android.googlecode.com Oct 09 07:09:35 no Oct 09 07:09:38 I'm working on a feature for Home Oct 09 07:09:42 ha! Oct 09 07:09:46 now we know ;) Oct 09 07:09:56 you don't know what it is :p Oct 09 07:10:12 ok.. we'll get it from you next time :p Oct 09 07:11:10 romainguy: internally, who's the goto guy for android UI? Oct 09 07:11:15 is that you? Oct 09 07:13:20 not just me :) Oct 09 07:14:47 ooh! /me hopes its remote views for widgets Oct 09 07:15:23 romainguy_: same feature you mentioned earlier, or something different? Oct 09 07:18:52 mentioned earlier where? Oct 09 07:19:25 gdsx: no, he's working on remote views Oct 09 07:20:04 I'm certainly not :) Oct 09 07:20:12 hehe Oct 09 07:27:52 * anno^da_ is recognizing that the opinion about Android and the G1 is getting and better after having look through the latest Android posts at Twitter via the Twitter search Oct 09 07:28:06 anno^da_: spot on Oct 09 07:28:18 its getting better every day Oct 09 07:28:22 yeah Oct 09 07:28:33 G1 is a hit Oct 09 07:28:35 especially when the people got the phone into their hands Oct 09 07:28:48 that's the only crib now Oct 09 07:28:59 it sux to be developing without a device Oct 09 07:29:12 goog must do something about this Oct 09 07:29:18 So romainguy_ has to bring some imported G1s when he comes to Belgium :-) Oct 09 07:31:36 you guys are always begging for more :) Oct 09 07:32:28 muthu: I just wish the emulator provided an easy way to switch between landscape and portrait. That would make testing and developing much easier. Oct 09 07:32:29 i'm just asking for one Oct 09 07:32:44 ctrl f12 Oct 09 07:32:49 haha :-). We're just making sure that you are not running out of work romainguy_ :D Oct 09 07:33:14 oh no worry Oct 09 07:33:20 Lenolium: also i think numpad 7 works too Oct 09 07:34:00 muthu/umdk1d3: Sweet, thanks. Oct 09 07:34:08 And we're just begging for hardware. :-) Oct 09 07:34:27 If I was worthy, I would be begging too. :) Oct 09 07:35:06 But my ui-less netflix app ain't worthy of donations. :) Oct 09 07:35:06 Now with India releasing the G1 before Germany does muthu has to send me one. :-) ( romainguy can take a deep breath :D) Oct 09 07:35:06 i'll write direct to sergey Oct 09 07:35:16 anno^da_: where's the news? Oct 09 07:35:40 haven't seen any concrete news for india Oct 09 07:35:43 mostly looks like rumors Oct 09 07:35:50 http://www.alootechie.com/content/htc-launch-google-android-powered-phone-india-dec-2008 Oct 09 07:35:52 well ok Oct 09 07:36:01 yeah, that's the only one Oct 09 07:36:07 buts its assumptions Oct 09 07:36:21 hmm ok. Oct 09 07:36:30 sergey can give me his.. Oct 09 07:36:39 i'll write a cool app for him Oct 09 07:37:17 when the device is thrown up in the air.. it'll disapper :) Oct 09 07:37:44 hehe.. it would be fun Oct 09 07:37:52 ask sergey to demo his cool app Oct 09 07:37:58 and snatch it and run :)) Oct 09 07:38:04 =O Oct 09 07:38:21 haha Oct 09 07:38:32 how long does it stay in the air.. forever!! Oct 09 07:39:32 wonder what kind of programs sergey and larry write these days Oct 09 07:46:07 man i just clean out my revolution mx Oct 09 07:46:11 good as new! Oct 09 08:54:43 New Release: Android Application Development: Rough Cuts Version Oct 09 08:54:54 Yeah O'reilly is getting something out for Android Oct 09 08:55:11 link? Oct 09 08:56:01 According to the twitter bot it should be there but it isnt accessible atm Oct 09 08:56:01 http://twitter.com/oreillymedia Oct 09 08:56:13 http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596156237/ Oct 09 08:56:18 thats what it will be :-) Oct 09 08:56:50 hmm.. books Oct 09 10:28:46 ooh awesome @ oreilley book Oct 09 10:28:56 is it out? Oct 09 10:29:04 well, the links above Oct 09 10:29:20 ha, its working now Oct 09 10:30:19 umdk1d3: is the alertdialog broken for multichoice items? Oct 09 10:30:34 hmm idk Oct 09 10:31:08 who's the book author? Oct 09 10:33:33 Rick Rogers ...sounds like a superhero alias Oct 09 10:33:34 the most frustrating thing is when the api doesn't work as expected Oct 09 10:33:47 gambler: where's that info? Oct 09 10:34:01 on that webpage anno^da_ pasted Oct 09 10:34:12 gah /me shakes fist at namecheap Oct 09 10:35:15 muthu: report an issue with a small test case, and a Google engineer will be able to tell you Oct 09 10:35:21 probably some time next year Oct 09 10:35:29 haha Oct 09 10:35:59 will file a bug Oct 09 10:36:11 its definitely a bug, afaik Oct 09 10:38:21 now the worst thing is.. need to unpack/pack into a list etc., just for getting the dialog work Oct 09 10:38:55 tomgibara: is there any other option than an alert dialog, for showing multi choice items? Oct 09 10:41:59 as you scroll, the check mark doesn't show Oct 09 10:42:25 if you need it to mimic the exact look of such a dialog, probably not Oct 09 10:42:36 otherwise, you could just create your own activity to do it Oct 09 10:42:51 right, probably create my own Oct 09 10:42:53 good idea Oct 09 10:42:58 with the appropriate styling to make it look like a dialog Oct 09 10:43:11 pwned...they tell you there is a pdf but once you buy it there is no pdf...web only Oct 09 10:43:16 yeah, an activity with a dialog theme Oct 09 10:43:18 cool Oct 09 10:43:55 gambler: the site seems to be work in progress Oct 09 10:44:30 yah thats the rough cuts concept. Oct 09 10:52:00 this book is really really short. maybe 40 pages of content I'd guess atm Oct 09 10:52:13 40? Oct 09 10:52:27 yeah im being generous Oct 09 10:52:32 oh oh Oct 09 10:52:50 there is a source code example that looks like where he spent most of his time i havent checked that out yet. Oct 09 10:53:14 where's he working? Oct 09 10:56:51 it finds jobs in your area and queries a pretend database on the handset. Oct 09 10:56:56 this is the TOC http://pastebin.com/m23a3b5c3 Oct 09 10:57:30 but pretty much everything after section 3.3 or so is empty and has a "To be added" placeholder where the content should go Oct 09 10:58:24 interesting.. Oct 09 10:59:01 yeah I thought it kind of sounded similiar to your idea, but I have a feeling your project is far more advanced then his Oct 09 10:59:59 yup Oct 09 11:00:13 but it's a long journey Oct 09 11:00:21 overall it looks like a decent start but not enough content yet. A little brazen to be selling it this early imo Oct 09 11:00:35 wouldn't buy anything now Oct 09 11:00:56 if the source code is released.. then a lot more can be uncovered Oct 09 11:02:47 my problem with android is im doing some pretty advanced stuff, but then things I think should be simple are confounding me Oct 09 11:03:16 my approach is learn as you go Oct 09 11:03:34 just focus on things your app needs Oct 09 11:04:18 yep thats a good strategy Oct 09 11:04:40 completely ignore stuff that you don't care Oct 09 11:08:19 muthu: bad plan Oct 09 11:08:36 tomgibara: why? Oct 09 11:08:47 because how do you know what you need to know Oct 09 11:08:59 hehe Oct 09 11:09:08 a good example is that yesterday you didn't know the Html helper class existed Oct 09 11:09:20 right Oct 09 11:09:30 but only yesterday, my app required html Oct 09 11:09:35 my approach is to just read every page of documentation, understand it, try to memorize it and then start coding Oct 09 11:09:45 oh no Oct 09 11:09:48 that takes forever Oct 09 11:09:55 haha Oct 09 11:10:22 i'll admit.. i've been wanting to read that intent page for a while Oct 09 11:10:29 never did read that fully yet! Oct 09 11:10:47 I'm dyslexic, reading all of the documentation, including all of the javadocs took me just over a day Oct 09 11:10:48 too much of stuff packed into that intent documentation page Oct 09 11:11:11 tomgibara: you forget them anyways Oct 09 11:11:19 do I? Oct 09 11:11:20 so i just refer when required Oct 09 11:11:26 most people, yes Oct 09 11:11:44 the point is not to memorize everything - it's to map out the terrain Oct 09 11:12:01 to understand what's available and what isn't and how the system is decomposed Oct 09 11:12:08 yeah yeah Oct 09 11:12:17 that way, when you hit a problem, you know where to look Oct 09 11:12:40 tomgibara, how long did it take you to read all that Oct 09 11:12:41 agree, you should know enough so where to look Oct 09 11:12:55 gambler: ^^just over a day Oct 09 11:13:56 am more interested in source code Oct 09 11:14:12 muthu: and again you completely contradict yourself in the space of minutes Oct 09 11:14:20 :) Oct 09 11:14:27 haha Oct 09 11:14:29 really? Oct 09 11:15:12 yes Oct 09 11:15:25 here's a question.. Oct 09 11:15:34 hmmm besides context, intent, activity, intentfilter, broadcastreceiver, service, viewgroup -- what else is important to understand how the system is decomposed? Oct 09 11:15:51 if you need a custom component, do you extend a layout or view? Oct 09 11:16:25 gambler: activity, service, receiver, content Oct 09 11:16:26 muthu: If you'd read the documentation, you'd know :) Oct 09 11:16:27 that's it Oct 09 11:16:35 ha! Oct 09 11:16:47 now i need a custom component!! Oct 09 11:16:53 gambler: don't listen to muthu ;) Oct 09 11:17:35 tomgibara: are you launching other apps on 22? Oct 09 11:17:38 gambler: the use of linux's processes as the core security model, the permissions system, process handling (including multiple and remote processes), Oct 09 11:17:46 tomgibara, understood :p Oct 09 11:17:56 gambler: you launch on 22? Oct 09 11:18:05 muthu: no, I won't release an app until I've run it on a device for a while Oct 09 11:18:17 hmm.. Oct 09 11:18:28 Since they aren't available until late Nov here (I think) that means towards the end of December Oct 09 11:18:39 muthu, I might put up one pathetic app just out of curiosity, but my main thing is still awhile away. I need bluetooth. Oct 09 11:18:48 ok Oct 09 11:18:56 yeah, would be fun to put it out on 22 Oct 09 11:19:12 early movers Oct 09 11:19:53 muthu: I'm not sure the early mover advantage is so great Oct 09 11:20:23 not so great, since everything is free Oct 09 11:20:40 really? Oct 09 11:21:08 you can put it on other stores.. Oct 09 11:21:15 market is free for 3mo Oct 09 11:21:23 gambler: yes, how many people will own the phone on the 22nd? Oct 09 11:21:37 tomgibara, yah i agree. Oct 09 11:22:09 i didnt know that google was making their "market" free for 3 months. Oct 09 11:22:22 market....can i put up some bananas on there Oct 09 11:23:31 hehe Oct 09 11:23:36 if you give it for free Oct 09 11:25:12 I will give away the banana..but the peeling apparatus...big cost Oct 09 11:27:10 tomgibara, how much moseycode data in kilobytes could you fit on an A4 sheet of paper Oct 09 11:28:56 gambler: very little :) It's not a high density barcode, it just stores a reference to a manifest that it downloads Oct 09 11:32:31 id love a way to import crypto certs via the camera. OCR i guess Oct 09 11:34:05 do yout think that would be secure enough? Oct 09 11:34:35 yeah i think it would be better than most key exchanges actually. Oct 09 11:35:55 remember that someone could easily take a photo of the barcode... Oct 09 11:36:28 it wouldn't be impossible w/moseycode, part of the design (not yet fully implemented) is to allow for password locked (and even location locked) barcodes Oct 09 11:36:42 you dont have to worry about people knowing that information, only about them promulgating false information (eg MITM attacks) Oct 09 11:37:17 Hmm, I see Oct 09 11:37:38 How large in bytes is a typical cert? Oct 09 11:38:02 4KB would probably be about a minimum standard Oct 09 11:38:56 ASCII is technically better since people could also eyeball verify it but you could have that "also" Oct 09 11:39:30 I think you're right that OCR sounds like an interesting channel Oct 09 11:39:35 I did a little testing with some OCR libs against photos I took with my nokia 1.3 MP phone Oct 09 11:39:48 the results were kinda ...ugh Oct 09 11:40:05 I'm working on a nice moseycode angle which includes OCR acutally ;) Oct 09 11:40:14 but only for small amounts of text Oct 09 11:40:20 like a URL say Oct 09 11:40:40 ah good Oct 09 11:40:41 can be your business card Oct 09 11:40:48 or location info Oct 09 11:41:13 that's the idea Oct 09 11:41:29 juts an easy way to move data to your phone from something that's human readable Oct 09 11:41:55 - and more reliable than straightforward OCR :) Oct 09 11:42:04 nice Oct 09 11:42:46 allrighty time to go home Oct 09 11:43:00 muthu: bye Oct 09 11:43:03 wow u spend all that time on this channel at work? Oct 09 11:43:08 go home muthu :) Oct 09 11:43:14 catch you on the other side Oct 09 11:43:16 bye Oct 09 12:52:51 does anybody know what units android:layout_height/width supports Oct 09 12:53:11 like px, db, sp all of these Oct 09 12:53:13 or just px Oct 09 12:53:23 ive been using dip alot Oct 09 12:53:28 dip=device independant pixels Oct 09 12:53:50 i think its somehow related to the screen pixel density too Oct 09 12:53:51 for android:layout_height and width, right? Oct 09 12:54:04 thanks Oct 09 12:54:28 yep, so ive heard that 66dip is a good size for something you want people to hit easily with their finger Oct 09 12:54:41 the home screen icons are a bit smaller than that iirc tho Oct 09 13:04:55 umdk1d3 : yep Oct 09 13:05:01 and thanks for your response Oct 09 13:12:46 does anybody know any method which does the layout_weight, height and width runtime Oct 09 13:12:55 like setWeight() or something Oct 09 13:13:30 setlayoutparams Oct 09 13:24:11 does anyone know if anyone is publicly working on some sort of turn-by-turn directions application? Oct 09 13:25:24 plusminus works on that Oct 09 13:25:27 anddev.org Oct 09 14:37:28 yawn Oct 09 14:38:27 yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Oct 09 14:38:40 no kidding Oct 09 14:41:53 http://antisocial.demozoo.org/tool.html Oct 09 14:46:09 is it supposed to do anything? Oct 09 14:48:55 ahh in safari it works Oct 09 14:57:48 i bought becky Live at KEXP Volume 4 for her bday Oct 09 14:57:53 listening to it, damn fine collection :) Oct 09 14:58:07 i really like Arther and Yu's track on there :) Oct 09 15:00:15 o/~ I'm gonna pull your strings and play against your heart o/~ Oct 09 15:00:17 * jasta grooves Oct 09 15:31:38 Does anyone know if WebView.loadUrl automatically runs in it's own thread? Oct 09 15:39:34 android.widget.CheckedTextView - any concrete implementation example? Oct 09 16:29:28 hmm, there seems to be no way to submit user-generated meta data to last.fm :\ Oct 09 16:29:32 like submit an album it doesn't have Oct 09 16:29:37 i guess if i just scrobble it a bunch it'll show up Oct 09 16:31:22 the api doesn't support/ Oct 09 16:31:24 ? Oct 09 16:33:08 no i mean on the web site Oct 09 16:33:26 i just bought Live at KEXP Volume 4 and they don't have any data about it. so i wanted to create it and upload the album artwork and stuff Oct 09 16:34:35 oh ok Oct 09 16:49:18 for anyone who was asking why you would possibly want to use mplayer (or vlc or..) to get codecs into android: http://androidcommunity.com/first-t-mobile-g1-user-review-20081009/ (check the cons list) Oct 09 16:55:36 how is progress muthu Oct 09 16:56:00 slow.. Oct 09 16:56:03 and steady... Oct 09 16:56:14 not sure, if ready. Oct 09 16:56:22 but we'll glow. Oct 09 16:57:15 how's yours f00f-y Oct 09 16:58:04 slowing down Oct 09 16:58:08 have some backend algo issues Oct 09 16:58:34 hmm Oct 09 16:59:00 would be fun to release without testing in G1 Oct 09 16:59:19 the con of a memory leak doesn't sound good Oct 09 16:59:20 it'd be suicidal Oct 09 16:59:43 don't think so Oct 09 16:59:47 its early preview Oct 09 17:00:07 and we'll blame google and android for not giving G1 Oct 09 17:02:40 amen Oct 09 17:03:38 the key is to label it 'alpha' Oct 09 17:07:32 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list?can=1&q=reporter%3Ajasta00&colspec=ID+Type+Version+Security+Status+Owner+Summary&cells=tiles Oct 09 17:07:35 lol, look at my rap sheet :) Oct 09 17:07:42 hi i like you dudes Oct 09 17:09:31 well muthu, i don't want to pre something that's not stable Oct 09 17:09:34 since users will get it Oct 09 17:09:37 and badmouth it if it sucks Oct 09 17:09:53 thus lower ratings, stars, etc. Oct 09 17:11:02 user's knows its alpha Oct 09 17:11:08 and they know not everyone has G1 Oct 09 17:11:57 users are stupid, i think Oct 09 17:12:15 they are smart Oct 09 17:12:20 jasta: impressive Oct 09 17:12:28 as i see it, we only get one chance to launch Oct 09 17:12:44 not really Oct 09 17:12:46 if you send me one i will give it good reviews Oct 09 17:12:58 wastrel: you mean G1? Oct 09 17:13:21 does anyone know about the thread safety of MediaPlayer? Oct 09 17:13:36 should i assume it can only be called from my main thread? Oct 09 17:27:13 muthu: sure! Oct 09 17:27:37 if you have one send it to me :P Oct 09 17:30:10 f00f-: I aggree with you. You are not the only one that fears that. Oct 09 17:30:35 I think its REALLY riscy to let devs throw apps to the market without giving them the chance to test them. Oct 09 17:30:43 :/ Oct 09 17:30:49 DEVs first !!! Oct 09 17:31:08 goog sees no risk here Oct 09 17:31:16 ......................................... Oct 09 17:31:22 Oct 09 17:31:28 haha Oct 09 17:31:43 if goog is willing to risk.. i'm willing to risk too.. Oct 09 17:31:57 I got my Navigation App tested on another users G1 and it crashed half of the time :/ Oct 09 17:32:06 don't blindly follow google ;) Oct 09 17:32:07 where its working perfectlz in the emulator Oct 09 17:32:27 really? Oct 09 17:32:28 Releasing without testing on real hardware is bound to be painful. Oct 09 17:32:30 SHIT Oct 09 17:32:47 IS Oct 09 17:32:48 THIS Oct 09 17:32:57 ack :'( Oct 09 17:33:09 I also don't want to piss users... Oct 09 17:33:10 plusminus_: so how do fix the crash? Oct 09 17:33:18 muthu: NO IDEA !!! Oct 09 17:33:27 probably sth with gps... Oct 09 17:33:36 oh ok Oct 09 17:34:55 plusminus_: how is your app? Oct 09 17:35:08 Hello, does anyone know if there is GPS receiver on upcomming HTC Dream? Oct 09 17:35:20 cjambe: zes there is Oct 09 17:35:29 thank you! Oct 09 17:35:47 I'll start to replace MapView with OpenStreetMapView soon, as soon as I have the current version stable on the G1 Oct 09 17:35:56 oh dude Oct 09 17:35:59 you're making an OSM View? Oct 09 17:36:09 its pretty done Oct 09 17:36:13 sweet Oct 09 17:36:18 wonderful Oct 09 17:36:18 mom... Oct 09 17:36:20 i was just proposing that the other day Oct 09 17:36:32 http://www.anddev.org/openstreetmap_mapview_for_android-t2967.html Oct 09 17:37:26 see page 2 for itemized overlay Oct 09 17:38:03 k lemme see Oct 09 17:38:20 also I'll have to set up a routing-server absed on osm or use an existing one. Oct 09 17:38:37 I'm considering http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Pyroutelib2 Oct 09 17:39:05 which would be perfect :) Oct 09 17:39:17 turn by turn nav would be perfect Oct 09 17:39:21 i want one Oct 09 17:39:34 I have one but its illegal ^^ Oct 09 17:39:48 * plusminus_ biting into anything that comes close... Oct 09 17:40:26 where you bought? Oct 09 17:40:58 hello all Oct 09 17:41:15 bought? Oct 09 17:41:26 G1? Oct 09 17:41:33 oh, you don't have one Oct 09 17:42:02 what's the performance like plusminus Oct 09 17:42:11 do you have your own tile server? Oct 09 17:43:38 nope not yet, currently using the existing ones Oct 09 17:43:45 I have this layout, http://pastebin.com/m51d40f06 for some reason I cannot see the layout with buttons. Why? Oct 09 17:43:47 but there will have to be some Oct 09 17:44:25 okay Oct 09 17:44:29 jeld: because you have # android:layout_width="fill_parent" # android:layout_height="fill_parent" Oct 09 17:44:32 int he outermost tags Oct 09 17:44:33 yeah i have the 90 GB planet here, i want to do some renders Oct 09 17:44:46 offline, of course Oct 09 17:45:06 f00f-: I'd need someone who is a bit deeper within OSM, who could manage the TileServerStuff and the routingpart Oct 09 17:45:19 plusminus_, hmm... I only have that in the outer layout Oct 09 17:45:41 use: android:layout_height="wrap_content" Oct 09 17:45:59 plusminus_, where? I have that in both inner layouts Oct 09 17:46:08 f00f-: Does pyroutlib work with planet.osm ? Oct 09 17:46:29 f00f-: are you down with OSM ? or maybe know someone? Oct 09 17:46:48 plusminus_, I just tried, but this way I still don't see buttons and the outer layout doesn't stretch to fill the screen Oct 09 17:47:24 plusminus_: not yet, i just have the data so far, i want to try getting some tiles generated, since osm.org is too slow for me Oct 09 17:47:30 i'm planning on doing some pedestrian routing eventually Oct 09 17:48:14 f00f-: you can use the google maps, no? Oct 09 17:48:29 i'm still looking into licensing Oct 09 17:48:46 gmaps costs money ;) Oct 09 17:48:55 oooh Oct 09 17:48:59 if you read the license Oct 09 17:49:05 nope Oct 09 17:49:10 no time Oct 09 17:49:17 commercial if its anything with realtime :( Oct 09 17:49:43 why can't you add like a 10 sec delay Oct 09 17:49:51 :-D Oct 09 17:50:06 hehe Oct 09 17:50:12 'sensorbased' is also not allowed Oct 09 17:51:03 thats why I had to cripple Andnav down to not much more than the Android-own Maps-DrivingDirections with little more features. Oct 09 17:51:40 well, not just realtime Oct 09 17:51:50 you cant use their geocoder without showing a google maps tile Oct 09 17:52:02 hmm Oct 09 17:52:16 why don't you show the tile? Oct 09 17:53:05 sometimes you don't want to Oct 09 17:53:18 it doesn't make UI sense Oct 09 17:53:39 f00f-: "- you cant use their geocoder without showing a google maps tile" Really ?| Oct 09 17:53:46 it works with me Oct 09 17:53:47 if you return a geocode with 5 results, you'd need to show at least 5 tiles Oct 09 17:53:55 plusminus_: i'm talking legally ;) Oct 09 17:54:27 ok but I'm still hoping that I at least can use the GeoCoder (as it is not in the Maps-Package) Oct 09 17:54:47 ... without going to jail :( Oct 09 17:54:54 haha Oct 09 17:55:01 not funny Oct 09 17:55:05 its sad Oct 09 17:55:17 sad o sad Oct 09 18:00:11 wow just learned a trick in eclipse Oct 09 18:00:14 ctrl-d to delete current line Oct 09 18:00:32 eclipse is god!! it can do everything Oct 09 18:00:47 yeah i'm plaing with flex builder right now Oct 09 18:01:07 CTRL + SHIFT + X to convert selection to UpperCase Oct 09 18:01:41 CTRL + SHIFT + Y to convert selection to lOWERcASE Oct 09 18:01:56 nice Oct 09 18:02:36 I've been doing that 100 times accidentially until someday I could stop my fingers on that keys ^^ Oct 09 18:02:37 the only shortcut to know in Eclipse is Ctrl-1 (or Cmd-1 on Mac) :) Oct 09 18:02:48 ahhahaha Oct 09 18:02:49 CTRL + SPACE Oct 09 18:02:50 do you know how to change the theme to a dark background? Oct 09 18:03:05 ctrl-1 and ctrl-space ftw Oct 09 18:03:07 setTheme(R.i.have.fogrotten); Oct 09 18:03:17 lol Oct 09 18:03:19 plusminus_: do it in XML Oct 09 18:03:22 and the default theme is dark Oct 09 18:03:22 the eclipse theme i mean Oct 09 18:03:27 or that wa Oct 09 18:03:29 y Oct 09 18:03:48 android:theme="also forgotten" Oct 09 18:04:05 ./afk Oct 09 18:04:35 no one on the interwebs seems to know how to change eclipse theme other than just change every freaking color by hand, which would take days. Oct 09 18:05:33 taaz: it's a known and unfortunate limitation of eclipse Oct 09 18:05:59 there's no xml persistence format for theme colors? Oct 09 18:08:44 well it's persisted in the workspace somewhere Oct 09 18:09:24 f00f-: maybe, but i've never seen anyone with a file i could import Oct 09 18:10:30 right Oct 09 18:11:56 is there a batch update? Oct 09 18:12:48 what? Oct 09 18:13:01 updating db Oct 09 18:13:22 sorry dont follow Oct 09 18:13:27 sqlite Oct 09 18:13:32 batch update? Oct 09 18:13:40 UPDATE Oct 09 18:13:47 YEAH Oct 09 18:14:04 just use UPDATE... Oct 09 18:14:15 maybe in a transaction Oct 09 18:14:26 lemme look Oct 09 18:14:53 methinks you want speed Oct 09 18:15:06 if you could lockthe sqlite db, and disable autocommit Oct 09 18:15:13 haven't tried myself Oct 09 18:15:24 have like 100 rows to update Oct 09 18:27:39 http://geekswithblogs.net/jith/archive/2007/01/14/103559.aspx did it by pulling the affected rows out (and delete-from), change them in ram, and put them back. seems excessive. Oct 09 18:28:48 thx.. checking Oct 09 18:30:33 depends on the objective Oct 09 18:30:37 maybe you shouldnt update 100 rows ;) Oct 09 18:31:08 why? Oct 09 18:39:12 romainguy: how's it going? Oct 09 18:39:31 good Oct 09 18:39:59 romainguy: cool Oct 09 18:50:58 can anyone help me with a threading issue regarding MediaPlayer? Oct 09 18:51:29 i need to know if MediaPlayer attempts to be thread-safe? it seems to be that you can deadlock it under certain circumstances i don't fully understand Oct 09 18:53:38 jasta: seems like you can touch media player from any thread...I usually am hitting it from UI thread so haven't noticed any deadlock Oct 09 18:54:00 also can it be used from threads other than the main one? will i need to synchronize it myself or will it try itself? Oct 09 18:54:09 zhobbs: right, i initially thought it attempted to be thread-safe all on its own Oct 09 18:54:35 but then looking at the API, i don't see how it could be really. and i'm also running into cases now where it can hang indefinitely Oct 09 18:54:47 so that would suggest it is trying to be thread-safe, but is buggy maybe? Oct 09 18:55:04 without the code i can't do much to figure this out Oct 09 18:55:10 or without someone that can look at the code :) Oct 09 18:55:24 zhobbs: you don't have a service utilizing the mediaplayer? Oct 09 18:55:41 f00f-: you said earlier that you can't use Geocoder without showing a map tile, where does it say that? Oct 09 18:55:41 jasta: I do Oct 09 18:55:58 jasta: so, good point, when an activity hits my service I guess those calls aren't from the main service thread Oct 09 18:56:30 nope, theyre from a binder thread Oct 09 18:56:48 as are mine, i wasn't attempting to synchronize them at first, but now i am getting skeptical about what the hell its doing under the hood Oct 09 18:56:51 yeah, so i guess I use the media player outside the main thread a lot Oct 09 18:57:12 zhobbs: me too, and now i have a corner case where calling reset() at apparently the wrong time will cause it to halt the thread that called it Oct 09 18:57:23 which causes the whole service to come crashing down (it halts indefinitely in MediaPlayer#reset) Oct 09 18:57:26 hmm, interesting Oct 09 18:57:46 so i'm trying to decide what the proper solution is: to synchronize it myself, or to assume it is completely broken and require usage in the main thread Oct 09 18:58:04 but the latter will be really hard to code, because of calls like getPlaybackPosition() in the service Oct 09 18:58:57 logically seeing the interface, i can't imagine it's thread-safe Oct 09 18:59:09 jasta: yeah, I haven't run into that case Oct 09 18:59:26 even though I am calling reset() via the binder thread Oct 09 18:59:27 the API doesn't look like it could be thread-safe with just crude synchronization, hmm Oct 09 18:59:44 zhobbs: i found it initially by a bug where i called stop and then reset in rapid succession from two different threads Oct 09 19:00:03 a bug in my service logic i mean, but this woke me up to the fact that there may be a deeper bug lingering Oct 09 19:00:20 im just looking for confirmation about the MediaPlayer's thread safety to determine that :) Oct 09 19:00:54 jasta: fyi, I found an interesting memory leak in my app related to async service listeners Oct 09 19:01:24 really, how so? Oct 09 19:01:44 i mean, what's the case that does this? Oct 09 19:02:14 it would leak the whole music playing activity because it would keep the reference to my listener even if I set it to null...but the strange part is that it only does it if I have the service running in a separate process Oct 09 19:02:32 I changed it to a local service and the leak was gone Oct 09 19:03:24 why would it keep the reference? in onStop you should unregister your listeners Oct 09 19:03:27 then disconnect the service Oct 09 19:03:34 I do Oct 09 19:03:35 zhobbs: I'm still suspicious that it could be a symptom of the reference counting between processes Oct 09 19:03:51 but I just don't have the brainpower to analyze it atm Oct 09 19:03:57 zhobbs: i dont understand how it could still leak then? Oct 09 19:04:30 don't know...might be a binder bug, or might be something else I'm doing....I need to create a small project to demonstrate it Oct 09 19:05:05 it's just suspicious that it doesn't leak if it's a local, and does if it's a remote Oct 09 19:05:45 yeah i would really be interested in a small activity that could demonstrate this Oct 09 19:05:48 that seems very serious Oct 09 19:05:59 (too serious) Oct 09 19:06:07 yes Oct 09 19:06:24 I've been really busy, but I'll try to recreate in a small project Oct 09 19:07:01 are you using RemoteCallbackList? it could be a bug there as well... Oct 09 19:07:09 not everyone can maintain the bug reporting rate that jasta achieves ;) Oct 09 19:07:09 no Oct 09 19:07:25 just curious, but any particular reason? Oct 09 19:07:46 just a single listener (only have one activity that is interested), probably should use a list though Oct 09 19:08:38 oh Oct 09 19:08:42 jasta: I assume you're using a remote service right? Oct 09 19:08:52 no Oct 09 19:08:55 why would i? Oct 09 19:10:21 the only reason you would is if you wanted to isolate your process space so you could let your activities die while your service runs neatly isolated from them Oct 09 19:10:39 but that wouldnt be useful unless you had an apk exposing services for other apps to use, really Oct 09 19:10:49 otehrwise it's just a performance hit. Oct 09 19:11:26 well, I think it'd be good if the music continued to play even if your activities were killed for it's resources Oct 09 19:13:15 yeah, I think its a great idea Oct 09 19:21:04 interestingly, google's media player doesn't take that approach Oct 09 19:21:06 zhobbs: yeah, but they can't be. Oct 09 19:21:31 services make the process unkillable. likewise, bound activities to services make the activities unkillable. Oct 09 19:22:00 jasta: Not unkillable, just less likely to be killed. In an extreme low memory situation, it may kill them. Oct 09 19:22:08 well of course Oct 09 19:22:42 it's as unkillable as third party apps can be :) Oct 09 19:22:59 I've had instances where my process was killed (using local service) because I was pulling up the browser/maps/other apps and it's weird to have the music just stop Oct 09 19:23:24 jasta: That's not true is it? Oct 09 19:24:42 As I understand it zhobbs's service would rate a 3 as per the lifecycle documentation Oct 09 19:25:01 jasta: so you think if an activity is bound to a service is less likely to be killed? Oct 09 19:25:28 zhobbs: i know that if you bind to a service, the activity becomes equal to the service in terms of its ability to live. Oct 09 19:25:43 hmmmm Oct 09 19:25:46 interesting Oct 09 19:25:52 That's only one different from an activity that's hidden from the user Oct 09 19:25:55 the oom killer will choose processes with no services first. i can prove this with documentation, hang on. Oct 09 19:26:11 jasta, you want:file:///C:/development/android/1.0_r1/docs/intro/lifecycle.html Oct 09 19:26:17 yeah, I'd be interested to see the docs on it Oct 09 19:26:20 er, maybe not :) Oct 09 19:26:26 # Oct 09 19:26:27 # A service process is one holding a Service that has been started with the startService() method. Though these processes are not directly visible to the user, they are generally doing things that the user cares about (such as background mp3 playback or background network data upload or download), so the system will always keep such processes running unless there is not enough memory to retain all foreground and visible process. Oct 09 19:26:39 *a* service, not exclusiving services. Oct 09 19:26:50 this means your entire process will be favored, even your activities. Oct 09 19:27:01 http://code.google.com/android/intro/lifecycle.html Oct 09 19:27:02 which is proper since your activities will all bind to it anyway, and that would give them that same level of privilege in any event Oct 09 19:27:45 i was wrong about service being the least killable, though. visible process and forground processes are higher Oct 09 19:27:50 jasta: the point is that you *want* the system to reclaim your activities Oct 09 19:28:51 It's definitely the right design imo Oct 09 19:28:59 of course, in general, but if you think about the way your music app is interacting with your music service you'd realize that you are levels 1, 2, and 3 all at the same time. Oct 09 19:29:00 Except that it increases memory usage Oct 09 19:29:26 (but it's a good trade off) Oct 09 19:29:50 i agree in general, but in this case it makes no functional difference. your service and your activities would have the same scheduled priority in either event. Oct 09 19:29:56 seems to me your activity would either be 1 or 4, and your services would be 3 Oct 09 19:29:57 I don't see that... Oct 09 19:30:03 because your activities *only* bind to the service. Oct 09 19:30:37 you don't have any activity which could be killed without also necessarily killing the service. Oct 09 19:30:49 that's just a side effect of this particular type of design: a music player. Oct 09 19:31:07 every activity cares about the service, and so it is iether foreground/active, or it is bound to a service and therefore as high priority as the service. Oct 09 19:31:37 I haven't got the advantage of having written a music player, but this doesn't seem true Oct 09 19:31:42 that said, the system can and would still kill your service if necessary. Oct 09 19:31:53 but it would do that whether it was isolated in its own process or not Oct 09 19:32:17 jasta: I don't see where it says that a binded activity shares the same priority as a service? Oct 09 19:32:29 nor do I Oct 09 19:32:38 hang on, i'll find it... Oct 09 19:32:46 A process's priority may also be increased based on other dependencies a process has to it. For example, if process A has bound to a Service with the Context.BIND_AUTO_CREATE flag or is using a ContentProvider in process B, then process B's classification will always be at least as important as process A's. Oct 09 19:33:02 oh i guess that's saying the opposite technically Oct 09 19:33:08 my mistake :) Oct 09 19:33:10 precisely Oct 09 19:33:19 :) Oct 09 19:33:25 i hadn't read that line in a long time hehe, so i just remembered it wrong, sorry Oct 09 19:33:43 ok, cool...then I need to try to get back to the remote service Oct 09 19:33:48 tomgibara: it was in the license agreement Oct 09 19:33:50 yes, in that case :) Oct 09 19:33:56 nevermind what i said about process isolation hehe Oct 09 19:33:58 so I'll try to recreate that leak...maybe tonight Oct 09 19:34:04 f00f:- thanks, the main one for the SDK?# Oct 09 19:34:07 tomgibara: i think there was some clarification from dsm at one point Oct 09 19:34:30 tomgibara: yes either that, OR the Google Maps license Oct 09 19:34:32 zhobbs: yeah please do, that would be great to demonstrate. especially if the bug really exists in the binder, it would need a reproducable case to fix Oct 09 19:34:54 yes...seems like it couldn't really be a bug...too obvious :) Oct 09 19:35:04 well, obvious at this layer maybe Oct 09 19:35:09 but the binder is deep and complex, actually Oct 09 19:35:14 yeah, I'll let you know my findings Oct 09 19:35:38 and the Java side of the Binder exposes only very little of what you can do with it Oct 09 19:36:19 http://www.osnews.com/story/13674 << very interesting presentation of the Binder by Dianne Oct 09 19:36:40 (well, the OpenBinder) Oct 09 19:36:52 i've heard OpenBinder and Android's binder differ tremendously at this point Oct 09 19:37:02 i can't remember who told me that though, maybe San Oct 09 19:37:11 they do Oct 09 19:37:21 but a lot of the ideas and concepts are pretty much the same Oct 09 19:37:28 still worth the read :) Oct 09 19:39:55 f00f-: found it and I think I'm in a legal grey area with the geocoder :( Oct 09 19:40:25 probably just on the wrong side as well *sigh* Oct 09 19:40:42 but tomgibara Oct 09 19:40:47 there is an 'enterprise' google maps Oct 09 19:40:50 that i want to look into Oct 09 19:40:56 that may free us of that clause in the license Oct 09 19:42:07 I'm assuming that will cost, and whatever I charge for the app (if I even do) wouldn't pay for it Oct 09 19:42:44 I'm using the geocoder service to find the name of a location, and then sending that, together with a link to google maps via SMS Oct 09 19:43:13 the clause says: You may use the Maps API geocoder solely to obtain and display points on map images provided through the Service. Oct 09 19:43:23 it might be cheaper, who knows Oct 09 19:43:56 i'm facing off between MapQuest / GMaps Enterprise / OSM do-it-yourself Oct 09 19:44:04 tomgibara: will the app proceeds all go to a defense lawyer? :-) Oct 09 19:44:12 if Google maps provided a URL parameter for me to specify a "map pin", then I'd be okay I think Oct 09 19:45:16 Instead of developing tonight I will be reading the license. :-( Oct 09 19:45:21 dmoffett: perhaps, its more the principle that I should keep to the licence agreement I have with Google Oct 09 19:45:56 I was just jerking your chain. Sad we even have to worry about such things. Oct 09 19:45:56 I know I'd read it, but at the time iirc, android didn't have a geocoder, so I must have disregarded that clause Oct 09 19:51:58 romainguy: any tips on how to theme the menu? can't seem to find any docs on it Oct 09 19:52:16 even if just changing the background Oct 09 19:53:09 tomgibara: "the clause says: You may use the Maps API geocoder solely to obtain and display points on map images provided through the Service." Oct 09 19:53:32 so GeoCoder only and ever to put pins on a map o_O Oct 09 19:56:34 seems so Oct 09 20:05:49 ok, so I guess I'm breaking yet another rule :( Oct 09 20:06:22 but if thats true, probably every android app is illegal :/ Oct 09 20:07:06 I wouldn't assume that every android app is using the geocoder :) Oct 09 20:07:48 every app that has to do with location stuff Oct 09 20:07:54 like compareeverywhere Oct 09 20:08:18 like getting closest stores Oct 09 20:09:42 its crappy, that my Emulator doesn't get GPS at all :( not even the android maps app Oct 09 20:10:18 Which version of Eclipse are you using? Oct 09 20:10:31 Ganymede Oct 09 20:10:34 3.4 Oct 09 20:10:56 doen"t say its not supported o_O Oct 09 20:11:04 no that is what I am using. Oct 09 20:11:07 on OSX. Oct 09 20:12:07 it also can be don with adb, right? Oct 09 20:12:17 plusminus_: i've not used the app, but compareeverywhere is probably in compliance, since it will probably show you the store location on the map Oct 09 20:12:34 who's to say/know what geocoder one is using :) Oct 09 20:12:51 adb geo fix {doublelatitude} {doublelongitude} Oct 09 20:13:14 Geocoder works awesome, why not using it :/ Oct 09 20:13:23 ok before it worked I had one myself Oct 09 20:13:26 well Oct 09 20:13:33 but why not pushing the responsaility tto google :P Oct 09 20:13:39 i push my stuff to the server Oct 09 20:13:44 so my android app doesnt know the backend Oct 09 20:13:48 it just knows my own API Oct 09 20:13:53 the server figures out the geocoder to use Oct 09 20:14:02 so that we can change geocoder without reinstalling user apps Oct 09 20:14:06 in case one gets sued, etc. Oct 09 20:14:37 how is performance with MANY users ? Oct 09 20:15:49 We could write a GAE geocode system and share it. :-) Oct 09 20:15:49 define MANY Oct 09 20:16:03 well it's a sacrifice i have to make Oct 09 20:16:12 the server is the place where i can change things easily Oct 09 20:18:19 f00f what are you using for gecode alternatives? Oct 09 20:18:59 but i've tested with about 100 geocodes/sec Oct 09 20:19:04 mapquest Oct 09 20:20:47 it is "free" ? Oct 09 20:21:04 *.dev.mapquest.com Oct 09 20:21:07 free for prototyping Oct 09 20:21:45 maps, geocoder, reverse geocoder, routing, etc. Oct 09 20:22:09 advantage api, i think it's called Oct 09 20:22:55 but really i'd be interested in doing the geocoder or at least the reverse geocoder myself, provided i had the data Oct 09 20:22:59 dont know if OSM is good enough Oct 09 20:23:06 and what legal implications it may have Oct 09 20:38:35 f00f: Have you priced any of the geocode services? Oct 09 20:38:47 not yet dave Oct 09 20:38:55 i'd be quite curious Oct 09 20:41:32 f00f-: has anyone written an algorithm that uses OSM data? Oct 09 20:41:46 if i had time, id love to help write stuff related to that <3 OSM Oct 09 20:43:12 umdk1d3: i think so, lots of stuff in the OSM wiki Oct 09 20:43:43 some stuff in pyroute2 Oct 09 20:45:06 http://geocoder.us/ Oct 09 20:45:10 for the us only Oct 09 20:45:21 20k lookups for $50. Oct 09 20:47:49 that's not bad dave, US only? Oct 09 20:47:57 I think so. Oct 09 20:48:59 wonder how good the data might be and where the site is getting the data. Oct 09 20:51:28 If you have a backend you could save money by geocoding locations and saving the data locally. Oct 09 20:57:01 well david Oct 09 20:57:12 true Oct 09 20:57:17 but if you use gmaps geocoder for example Oct 09 20:57:23 you are not allowed to cache results of geocodes Oct 09 21:01:03 Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Oct 09 21:17:53 ralf, how's chief wiggum? ;) Oct 09 21:56:12 I'm just wondering if I add a jar file to my project, can it contain any resources and so references to it R.java ? Oct 09 21:56:26 hmm, can you just unpack it? Oct 09 21:56:32 plusminus_: where are you? i thought .de Oct 09 21:56:48 hes in the US :-) Oct 09 21:56:57 where? Oct 09 21:57:12 its actually my code I'll be using in different projects and thought it might be better to copy the jar file instead of code ... Oct 09 21:57:16 College Park, MD Oct 09 21:58:03 plusminus_: R.java is dynamically generated, so I would think not - if it does work i would suspect it breaking if u add resources items starting with "a" Oct 09 21:58:17 but i have no concrete basis for saying that Oct 09 21:58:33 mickrobk_: how's your app doing? Oct 09 21:58:41 did you fix the bug i found ;) Oct 09 21:58:48 plusminus_: you're at UoM? Oct 09 21:58:49 pretty good..... Oct 09 21:58:53 and yep :) Oct 09 21:59:10 (i think) it was a memory issue.... Oct 09 21:59:20 How's the weather on the east coast? Oct 09 21:59:41 how about urs? r u going to be able to launch in Oct? Oct 09 22:00:44 today was pretty hot Oct 09 22:01:03 mickrobk_: aiming for november at the earliest. some issues on the backend atm. Oct 09 22:01:07 unix_lappy: no, but close to that at the Fraunhofer Center Oct 09 22:02:03 plusminus_: oh, that's right, impressive. Oct 09 22:02:42 how many years out of undergrad? Oct 09 22:06:06 undergrad = ? (bachelor?) Oct 09 22:06:15 this is my 5th semester Oct 09 22:07:20 ahh. cool. Oct 09 22:19:15 * plusminus_ watching my pc working out on refractoring the root package of AndNav............... Oct 09 22:20:27 oh nooz, i fu**ed it up ... xD Oct 09 22:37:12 hmm, i added an entyr to musicbrainz, but its xml service doesn't show it yet Oct 09 22:37:21 i wonder if tehre's a lag :\ Oct 09 23:38:27 umdk1d3: http://gizmodo.com/5061371/itunes-remote-app-for-android-looks-fantastic ? Oct 09 23:38:30 is that you? Oct 09 23:38:39 yes :) Oct 09 23:39:06 * summatusmentis applauds Oct 09 23:40:43 umdk1d3: can you get the current songs progress? Oct 09 23:43:09 ahh, yeah, I see the progress indicator now Oct 09 23:43:18 hey guys did any of you work with phoneStateListener? Oct 09 23:43:25 chouman82: yeah Oct 09 23:59:20 lol Oct 09 23:59:32 there's my alphabet bar ;P Oct 09 23:59:47 looks like it :) Oct 09 23:59:56 it is, for sure, he extended it :) Oct 10 00:00:35 video would be cooler if it was a physical device :) Oct 10 00:00:35 bbl, heading home. Oct 10 00:00:41 gonna work on MusicBrainz smartness tonight :) Oct 10 00:01:07 like the interface tho :) Oct 10 00:04:01 welllll Oct 10 00:06:57 i would have loved to show it on an actual device Oct 10 00:07:12 still not allowed yet? Oct 10 00:07:44 isn't it coming out in a couple weeks? :\ Oct 10 00:07:57 umdk1d3: too bad you did the manual add, the stupid comments think you cannot do autodiscovery :) Oct 10 00:09:15 still have to enter pairing code? Oct 10 00:09:39 its all magic if you use a real device Oct 10 00:09:48 yeah it works great on a real device Oct 10 00:09:56 but the emulator doesnt have UDP, so the pairing process needs to be done manually Oct 10 00:10:11 umdk1d3: you seem to have latency though when you press a button, I don't know if you're blocking the UI thread or if it's just waiting for a network op Oct 10 00:10:29 right, i actually think that might be at the network stack layer Oct 10 00:10:40 for each command i spawn a new thread to handle it Oct 10 00:10:46 maybe i should be using a threadpool or something Oct 10 00:10:49 would UDP be less latency too or negligible? Oct 10 00:10:57 umdk1d3: it's ok then Oct 10 00:11:03 have it sleep til someone interrupts it Oct 10 00:11:20 JoeBrain: the pairing process is the only thing that uses udp Oct 10 00:11:37 ah ic Oct 10 00:14:45 yeah, there is some latency with the UI Oct 10 00:15:27 latency from when the ui event happens to when it actually changes in itunes? Oct 10 00:15:30 but it's cool, and I'm glad you documented the protocol.. Oct 10 00:16:24 umdk1d3: latency when I press on the album art to bring up the controls and stuff Oct 10 00:16:29 it's cool though, good job :) Oct 10 00:16:31 oh yea Oct 10 00:16:44 although i think that might be related to a dead thread at some point Oct 10 00:16:51 *if the animation appears laggy Oct 10 00:16:56 still trying to track that down Oct 10 00:17:11 so do you guys have actual devices to test on or is simulator the only thing available? Oct 10 00:17:26 JoeBrain: its been tested thoroughly on real devices ^.^ Oct 10 00:17:56 ah nifty difty, was wondering b/c I clicked the link for CompareEverywhere & was wonderin how ya tested barcode :D Oct 10 00:18:04 zhobbs: how hard was it to get avahi and everything up? i didnt document that very thoroughly Oct 10 00:18:13 JoeBrain: http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ Oct 10 00:18:47 well I suppose i was more concerned about camera hardware being able to read the bars Oct 10 00:19:04 umdk1d3: the avahi? Oct 10 00:19:17 JoeBrain: the team writing that library at google has had real hardware for months now, and decodig barcodes works great Oct 10 00:19:31 exciting, I've always thought that was a great idea Oct 10 00:19:42 ohwait lol Oct 10 00:19:59 sry i thought you were using an emulator Oct 10 00:20:10 umdk1d3: I am Oct 10 00:25:14 how long does the process of applying & signing NDAs to get a development device take? Oct 10 00:29:12 or is it shut down until we're allowed to buy production devices? Oct 10 00:34:15 LOL here come more job offers... Oct 10 00:34:26 lol nah I just want more toys Oct 10 00:34:39 but if I have to pay you to get one ..... :P Oct 10 00:34:55 umdk1d3: well ignore them Oct 10 00:35:05 ah you meant PMs Oct 10 00:35:41 JoeBrain: there isnt a general developer-device program yet afaik Oct 10 00:35:52 ah so are all you guys official? Oct 10 00:36:03 * umdk1d3 is just some random guy lol Oct 10 00:36:10 so then how'd you get one? :P Oct 10 00:36:18 he won the ADC :) Oct 10 00:36:19 i didnt say i had one Oct 10 00:36:26 ah Oct 10 00:36:36 i said people with devices have tested it Oct 10 00:36:37 ;) Oct 10 00:36:40 ahhhh... Oct 10 00:36:50 so you developed a barcode reader w/out hardware? ballsy... Oct 10 00:37:01 JoeBrain: yea i did lol, had a horrid hack goign on in the emulator Oct 10 00:37:13 lol I can imagine Oct 10 00:37:29 well I guess that warrants ADC :) Oct 10 00:38:47 well the Chumby wasn't all I hoped for lol so I'm hoping Android lets me play around more Oct 10 00:39:12 jasta: ill credit you on alphabar when i blogpost about it ;) Oct 10 00:39:15 this was more just a codedump Oct 10 00:39:32 now i get to write up the tutorials about doing auto-paging lists an stuff Oct 10 00:43:21 umdk1d3 well well arent you media savvy today Oct 10 00:44:06 umdk1d3, i think I read you can fwd udp somewhere w/o nc...try the manual for this: http://www.hsc.com/resourceCenter/resource.aspx Oct 10 00:45:07 gambler: we dont need udp ont he cell network tho, only wifi Oct 10 00:45:38 and the only issue is that the emulator only supports tcp port forwarding Oct 10 00:46:06 ah rite.. Oct 10 00:53:55 umdk1d3: your simple-yet-effective player UI is starting to grow on me Oct 10 00:53:59 i might steal it. Oct 10 00:54:04 lol :) Oct 10 00:54:09 i just like looking at pretty art Oct 10 00:54:13 you know, ever since we both started playing with android, we have somehow managed to gravitate toward each other's code :) Oct 10 00:54:20 hehe :) Oct 10 00:54:31 ohbtw i optimized the alphabar for HGUE lists Oct 10 00:54:36 is surprised there isnt a gallery of android apps available. Oct 10 00:54:45 yeah, that's a big part of the reason why i abandoned it Oct 10 00:54:46 that's really what gets developers interested anyway, screenshots :-P Oct 10 00:54:46 it "guesses" the location in the list instead of starting at index=0 Oct 10 00:54:48 how'd you accomplish this effect? Oct 10 00:54:54 and works it way forwards/backwards as needed Oct 10 00:55:12 it guesses that M is going to be halfway thru the list Oct 10 00:55:19 MUCH more efficient Oct 10 00:55:29 was over at a friends house with thousdands of artists ;) Oct 10 00:55:29 that algorithm could use a lot of heuristic improvements tho Oct 10 00:55:42 sure, you know the values are coming in sorted Oct 10 00:55:43 you should generate an index based on the dictionary to discover more likely targets ;) Oct 10 00:55:53 precompute and store the indexes for each new letter Oct 10 00:56:08 i meant for your "guess" Oct 10 00:56:08 O(1) solution ;) Oct 10 00:56:21 a dictionary index would make your guess much more accurate hehe Oct 10 00:56:45 funny anecdote... Oct 10 00:57:04 the Linux project Samba got its name by the author writing a script to search for pronouncable words which had the letters S, M, and B in that order. Oct 10 00:57:18 SMB being the underlying protocol it implements Oct 10 00:57:21 new int[26]; then table[char]=.size() Oct 10 00:57:41 jasta: script lol, it was grep :P Oct 10 00:57:55 i call one-liners script all the same Oct 10 00:58:11 true, its all bash Oct 10 00:59:35 alright, i only have 2 hours to code before becky gets home, and i'm gonna use it :) Oct 10 00:59:48 adding MusicBrainz support to my server so that it can better figure things out like compilation CDs Oct 10 01:00:55 <3 musicbrainz Oct 10 01:02:58 do something with xbmc...its a great base for a media center/home automation type framework Oct 10 01:03:19 :p Oct 10 01:05:45 umdk1d3: i'm really frustrated that i'm writing this code to support this new album i just got, Live at KEXP, Volume 4 Oct 10 01:05:57 so i submitted it to musicbrainz earlier today Oct 10 01:05:59 but its still not showing up Oct 10 01:06:08 and last.fm does't know about it either so i can't upload album artwork Oct 10 01:06:12 and i dont even know how to submit to last.fm Oct 10 01:06:14 *grumble* Oct 10 01:06:14 :( Oct 10 01:06:59 hi, all. Oct 10 01:08:35 hmmmmmm.....can't seem to figure out how to theme the menus... Oct 10 01:10:30 any tips for a ruby developer starting android development? Oct 10 01:11:48 you should learn java Oct 10 01:12:37 That might help. Oct 10 01:12:54 i don't have any useful tips however Oct 10 01:13:02 wastrel: yeah that was my first clue, but i really have no need for java other than android, so i figured i'd just target the environment Oct 10 01:14:33 i mean i played with java in high-school, and i've looked at the android docs, it doesn't look that much radically different than ruby, other than being static-typed Oct 10 01:14:46 just jump in...do the official tutorial to get a feel for what an activity/view is, read some docs, come up with a project you want on your phone and make it Oct 10 01:15:45 study some api examples, find some tutorials, etc,etc Oct 10 01:15:48 zhobbs: oh boy i have a project for it, i just need to write the code :) Oct 10 01:16:00 start writing Oct 10 01:16:12 is it a good project? Oct 10 01:16:22 could the economic crisis benefit the android platform? .. i've heard commentary, no.. its bad for everyone.. but relative to proprietary solutions which cost money .. *scratches chin* Oct 10 01:16:27 I'm starting with Hello World. On Ubuntu 8.4. This means my eclipse is too old for the plugin, but I don't mind. I'm a vi & make sort of guy anyway. Oct 10 01:16:47 romainguy__: I think you told me that theming a menu is possible...any hints? Oct 10 01:16:51 wastrel: yeah, it integrates and consumes data from a rails app i'm writing for emergency management Oct 10 01:17:23 wastrel: any idea how i can consume RESTful data? my only other option is AMQP, which doesn't have a library for android, altough it does for java Oct 10 01:17:29 could the crisis be a boost for free software in general.. we shall see Oct 10 01:18:09 CardinalFang: it's easy to install the current eclipse Oct 10 01:18:18 just extract the tarball and run the binary Oct 10 01:18:54 BBHoss: i don't know anythign about webapps/restful programming Oct 10 01:19:08 systems administrator- C and scripting. :] Oct 10 01:19:12 learning java and OO Oct 10 01:19:23 wastrel: well its basically a http read, and then parse xml Oct 10 01:19:41 wastrel: i know android is java, but give ruby a serious look, i love it Oct 10 01:19:52 too slow for mobile devices though Oct 10 01:19:55 we have ruby coders at work Oct 10 01:20:06 So, I created an activity ("activitycreator ...") to make a skeleton tree. When I run "ant", it fails to build. "compile" is fine. The "dex" stage says "trouble processing" and "invalid constant pool index 0000", "processing ...Foo.class"... Oct 10 01:20:10 BBHoss: Android has the SAX libraries for XML parsing Oct 10 01:20:31 zhobbs: ever seen REST parsing done in java? Oct 10 01:20:39 CardinalFang: do yourself a favor - i'm a vi guy too... but get the current eclipse & the plugin. Oct 10 01:20:42 CardinalFang: do you have gcj installed? Oct 10 01:21:31 wastrel, AIUI, the eclipse plugin does these very steps. Oct 10 01:23:43 i understand that the process-model is quite revolutionary in android, for a large application, should I split my different major features into different packages altogether? Oct 10 01:24:08 xavd, no. "dpkg -l" says "un" and "which gcj" is nothing. I'm trying to get "ant" to show me what it's running. Oct 10 01:24:33 the brackets at the front say "javac", but that may mean nothing. /me looks. Oct 10 01:25:27 gcj is the gnu java compler, you're supposed to be using sun java for android Oct 10 01:25:54 yah. I'm pretty sure I am, but I'm sparing no assumptions. Verifying... Oct 10 01:27:47 yeah, you need sun java it says so on the download page Oct 10 01:32:23 lemme ask this to the channel, would it be feasible to use a SIP stack to place calls on instead of the GSM/CDMA? I know there are intents to make calls using the radio, but how hard would it be to change that functionality Oct 10 01:32:46 maybe a switch that lets you run SIP instead of gsm? Oct 10 01:35:05 damn pragprog needs to hurry up and write the LBS chapter already Oct 10 01:35:48 xavd, BBHoss, wastrel, one further tidbit to put in your basket of ideas: One must not have gij-* installed either (at least so it's earlier in the path). I found it by turning on process accounting, "accton", then using "lastcomm" to see what programs ant is running. I saw "java" (not "javac"), and found it's provided by gij. I removed. Now it builds. Oct 10 01:36:18 CardinalFang: wow, great work :) Oct 10 01:36:53 CardinalFang: yeah you basically need to make sure the javac and keytool symlinks in /usr/bin links to the sun version, and not the gnu version Oct 10 01:37:12 Thanks for asking the right question, guys. Oct 10 01:37:58 Lots of linux users are seeing this problem. I guess mentioning the sun jdk requirements in the doc isn't enougj Oct 10 01:38:09 maybe we should add "properly configured sun JDK" ;) Oct 10 01:40:39 xavd, Or at least not say "[javac] Using modern compiler" in the build output if running gij. (That may be an ant-ism. It's the first time I've used it.) Oct 10 01:40:59 CardinalFang: that's ant saying this Oct 10 01:41:43 hmm I never noticed (I use eclipse) Oct 10 01:45:47 xavd, maybe smarter to say "Sun java *first*, and if you jave problems, Sun java *only*." It's not enough to say "have Sun java" when the very existence of others will influence the results. Oct 10 01:46:19 true Oct 10 01:46:36 I've had sun java forever. I saw the requirements and said "yep. Fine." Oct 10 01:46:57 Thanks all. G'night. Oct 10 01:47:07 night Oct 10 01:55:26 YAY SNOW =D getting 11" over next few days Oct 10 01:57:00 lucky :) Oct 10 01:57:08 i bought a seasons pass to Stevens this year. i'm so pumped :) Oct 10 01:57:20 i plan to go after work at least once a week ;) Oct 10 01:57:31 niiiiice Oct 10 01:57:51 if i move, im really gonna miss skiing here Oct 10 01:58:05 three nice places all about an hour away Oct 10 02:00:26 we have 3 nice places all about 2 hours away Oct 10 02:00:28 but... Oct 10 02:00:43 we have 2 *really* fucking incredible places about 4 and 7 hours away :) Oct 10 02:00:55 oh, 3, there's also Mt Hood about 4 hours away Oct 10 02:01:33 we've got Mt. Baker, Mt. Hood, Whistler/Blackcomb for the big ones Oct 10 02:01:52 and Stevens, Crystal, and Snoqualmie for the littler ones (still the shit, tho) Oct 10 02:02:55 me and my buddies rented a cabin at Tahoe last winter. it was incredible ;) Oct 10 02:50:41 hmm if i moved to bay area i would be very interested in something fios-like Oct 10 02:55:22 im interested in structuring my housing search around finding fiber lol Oct 10 02:55:28 or soemthing fiber-like Oct 10 02:55:39 fios? Oct 10 02:55:52 cbeust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS Oct 10 02:55:58 why do you need so much bandwidth? :) Oct 10 02:56:53 Ah I thought we were talking dietary fibers Oct 10 02:57:05 having several colo boxes rsync back to your home raid is messy ;) Oct 10 02:57:13 its a mess of php scripts right now Oct 10 02:57:37 I used to have a home server on a static IP, hardly see the point these days Oct 10 02:59:29 i would love fios because afaik it still offers clear qam cable **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 10 03:00:06 2008