**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 10 03:00:06 2008
Oct 10 03:20:56 <jasta> hmm, weird
Oct 10 03:21:08 <jasta> musicbrainz seems to be upset by my requests?
Oct 10 03:21:16 <jasta> after about 20 or 30, it starts giving me 503, service unavailable
Oct 10 03:21:28 <jasta> then works again later, like they are mad at my volume/frequency?
Oct 10 03:21:47 <romainguy> looks like it
Oct 10 03:21:49 <jasta> i wouldn't think they'd start calling it abuse until well after 20 or 30 shallow requests
Oct 10 03:22:12 <romainguy> what frequency?
Oct 10 03:22:50 <jasta> i'm just traversing the users collection, firing off a request for each unique album i come across
Oct 10 03:23:24 <romainguy> well maybe that's too fast for them :)
Oct 10 03:23:26 <jasta> i don't see how that'd be too different than any of these other programs
Oct 10 03:23:33 <jasta> they have a program that lets you scan your entire collection
Oct 10 03:23:37 <jasta> and change all the tags
Oct 10 03:23:43 <romainguy> is it theirs?
Oct 10 03:23:46 <jasta> yeah
Oct 10 03:23:58 <jasta> it's open source even, and so is the library they wrote which i'm using
Oct 10 03:23:59 <romainguy> then I guess they have a way to workaround this :)
Oct 10 03:24:34 * jasta ponders if HTTP/1.1 connections aren't being re-used
Oct 10 03:24:37 <jasta> maybe thats the issue
Oct 10 03:26:26 <jasta> looks like their official policy is to wait 1s between requests.
Oct 10 03:27:06 <jasta> that should be easy enough, although i have to block the traversal process for this crap :)
Oct 10 03:27:27 <jasta> i guess i could implement a lazy way to look it up in another thread, but that would be a huge pain to go back through and reverse all the bad database decisions made in that window ;)
Oct 10 03:27:38 <jasta> and ultimately probably slower
Oct 10 03:28:00 <jasta> you'd think their official library would just impose this wait by default
Oct 10 03:28:01 <umdk1d3> jasta: in the past ive just randomly gotten 50x'es from them
Oct 10 03:28:13 <umdk1d3> is it like you hit a solid wall, or just some requests are dead?
Oct 10 03:28:23 <jasta> i hit a solid wall
Oct 10 03:28:30 <umdk1d3> hmm ouch
Oct 10 03:28:47 <jasta> it definitely looks to be that im requesting too fast, i found an official comment from some musicbrainz dev that said you have to wait 1s in between
Oct 10 03:29:08 <jasta> thats not a big deal, i dont care
Oct 10 03:29:25 <jasta> takes just about a second to do all the other work anyway
Oct 10 03:58:27 <muthu1> O
Oct 10 04:07:29 <muthu1> does the list have a horizonal orientation?
Oct 10 04:07:42 <muthu1> horizontal
Oct 10 04:07:46 <romainguy> no
Oct 10 04:07:51 <muthu1> arggh
Oct 10 04:08:02 <muthu1> an horizontal list would be lot useful
Oct 10 04:08:51 <romainguy> why do you need it to be horizontal?
Oct 10 04:09:15 <muthu1> my items are buttons
Oct 10 04:09:24 <wastrel> you can make a horizontal listview yes?
Oct 10 04:09:31 <romainguy> I just said no :)
Oct 10 04:09:35 <muthu1> so i can put them in a horizontal list.. and give the user to scroll the buttons
Oct 10 04:09:36 <romainguy> muthu1: use a LinearLayout
Oct 10 04:09:51 <wastrel> ah that's what i was thinking
Oct 10 04:09:53 <romainguy> and scrolling horizontally really is not the best when the screen orientation is portrait
Oct 10 04:10:02 <romainguy> (which is the case of the vast majority of phones :)
Oct 10 04:10:16 <muthu1> romainguy: want to use the cursor adapter
Oct 10 04:10:22 <muthu1> so the list seems to a good fit
Oct 10 04:10:30 <muthu1> horizontal list + cursor adapter
Oct 10 04:10:35 <romainguy> make your own
Oct 10 04:10:55 <muthu1> yeah, looks like that's what to be done
Oct 10 04:11:15 <romainguy> but I'm really not convinced that a horizontal list of buttons is a good UI :)
Oct 10 04:12:18 <muthu> pidgin sux
Oct 10 04:12:51 <muthu> romainguy; when extending linearlayout, when to fetch the view from the cursor?
Oct 10 04:13:28 <wastrel> pidgin is a bad irc client
Oct 10 04:13:37 <romainguy> muthu: other questions
Oct 10 04:13:40 <romainguy> what exactly are your buttons
Oct 10 04:13:53 <romainguy> do they have to be buttons? (since in a list elements are clickable)
Oct 10 04:14:18 <muthu> its a custom button.. like a checkbox view
Oct 10 04:14:27 <muthu> shows selection/nonselection
Oct 10 04:14:40 <muthu> the user selects the topic
Oct 10 04:14:43 <muthu> then does search
Oct 10 04:14:54 <muthu> i can search for jobs for example
Oct 10 04:14:56 <romainguy> so what's the problem with stacking them vertically?
Oct 10 04:15:22 <muthu> vertical doesn't look like a menu
Oct 10 04:15:46 <muthu> and in landscape its completely not good
Oct 10 04:16:10 <muthu> my main concern is the view/adapter lifecycle
Oct 10 04:16:17 <muthu> i fetch the cursor
Oct 10 04:16:20 <muthu> handover to layout
Oct 10 04:16:26 <romainguy> you'd have to start with AdapterView or AbsListView
Oct 10 04:16:34 <romainguy> they do a lot of stuff already
Oct 10 04:16:37 <muthu> how to plug this into linear layout
Oct 10 04:16:42 <muthu> they work with list
Oct 10 04:16:56 <romainguy> don't use a LinearLayout
Oct 10 04:17:05 <muthu> what else?
Oct 10 04:17:08 <romainguy> Adapter/AbsListView
Oct 10 04:17:10 <romainguy> like I just said
Oct 10 04:17:13 <muthu> oh ok
Oct 10 04:17:29 <muthu> abs list view would be the right thing
Oct 10 04:17:31 <muthu> great
Oct 10 04:18:40 <muthu> stayed away from custom components.. but not for long
Oct 10 04:19:40 <muthu> romainguy: regarding vertical display.. i do that too
Oct 10 04:19:46 <muthu> the user clicks on a + icon
Oct 10 04:19:53 <muthu> then the whole menu will unfold below
Oct 10 04:20:05 <PoohbaLT> y is pidgin a bad irc client?
Oct 10 04:20:35 <muthu> coz it crashes faster than wall street
Oct 10 04:21:01 <romainguy> then use something else :)
Oct 10 04:21:18 <PoohbaLT> it took wall street a long time to crash
Oct 10 04:21:33 <muthu> my pidgin was stable for a long time
Oct 10 04:21:40 <muthu> and once it started.. man!!
Oct 10 04:22:01 <f00f-> use irssi you newb
Oct 10 04:22:44 <muthu> f00f-: is that a command line tool?
Oct 10 04:23:28 <muthu> ha, i see it in yum
Oct 10 04:23:30 * muthu installing
Oct 10 04:24:11 <muthu> irssi.. yoooooo
Oct 10 04:24:26 <romainguy> irssi is like vi and emacs, it's for people who refuse to acknowledge we are now in the 21st century :)
Oct 10 04:24:31 <romainguy> :runrunrun:
Oct 10 04:24:34 <muthu> haha
Oct 10 04:24:47 <muthu> man.. it opened up a mainframe window ;)
Oct 10 04:24:57 <muthu> shit, f00f-y!
Oct 10 04:25:30 <muthu> f00f-: how to join a channel
Oct 10 04:25:41 <romainguy> probably /join #channel
Oct 10 04:26:10 <muthu> but need to connect first
Oct 10 04:26:14 <muthu> no help whatsoever
Oct 10 04:26:34 <muthu> /help
Oct 10 04:26:39 <muthu> does the trick
Oct 10 04:27:32 <living_sword> while retrieving a byte[ ] blob from sqlite db the byte sequence changes, is this a bug ?
Oct 10 04:27:43 <saraneya> woah!
Oct 10 04:28:03 * saraneya test
Oct 10 04:28:35 <saraneya> quit
Oct 10 04:28:47 <wastrel> /connect irc.freenode.net
Oct 10 04:28:52 <wastrel> then /join #android
Oct 10 04:28:59 <muthu> yeah did that, thx
Oct 10 04:30:40 <gdsx> why would you use anything other than irssi for IRC?
Oct 10 04:31:12 <saraneya> leave
Oct 10 04:31:21 <romainguy> gdsx: because it hurts the eyes? :)
Oct 10 04:31:45 * romainguy will stop trolling now
Oct 10 04:31:54 <gdsx> romainguy: irssi is awesome.  Especially the scripts that are available for it
Oct 10 04:31:54 <_muthu> yo
Oct 10 04:32:02 <gdsx> _muthu: oy :o)
Oct 10 04:32:11 <_muthu> gdsx: where's the scripts?
Oct 10 04:32:30 <gdsx> _muthu: if you were to guess, you would guess...
Oct 10 04:32:35 <romainguy> gdsx: frankly, to me, it's just an IRC client, and I couldn't care less about the features of an IRC client beside giving me comfortable way to read a channel :)
Oct 10 04:33:07 <gdsx> romainguy: features like "not having to hunt for a channel" don't matter?
Oct 10 04:33:26 <romainguy> maybe it matters to you
Oct 10 04:33:29 <romainguy> doesn't matter to me
Oct 10 04:33:44 <_muthu> how to enable notifications?
Oct 10 04:33:46 <gdsx> how many channels are you in?
Oct 10 04:33:47 <_muthu> sounds?
Oct 10 04:33:54 <romainguy> gdsx: 6
Oct 10 04:34:03 <gdsx> aah, ok :o)
Oct 10 04:34:08 <romainguy> as I said, I value the comfort of reading over everything else
Oct 10 04:34:13 <romainguy> so I don't give a shit about irssi :)
Oct 10 04:34:22 <swetland> romain is a big irc hater, it is true
Oct 10 04:34:28 <romainguy> well
Oct 10 04:34:32 <swetland> almost as much as he hates terminals
Oct 10 04:34:35 <_muthu> i'm yet to see a good irc client
Oct 10 04:34:36 <gdsx> romainguy: I do to, it's just a lot harder to read 40-odd channels in a client that sucks
Oct 10 04:34:36 <swetland> and text!
Oct 10 04:34:38 <romainguy> having written a couple of IRC clients and a dozen of bots, yes
Oct 10 04:34:47 <romainguy> the IRC protocol has scarred me for life
Oct 10 04:34:54 <gdsx> _muthu: just to be sure, did you try irssi.org?
Oct 10 04:34:58 <gdsx> romainguy: haha
Oct 10 04:34:59 <swetland> the irc protocol is not great
Oct 10 04:35:06 <swetland> but compared to say jabber
Oct 10 04:35:06 <romainguy> implement DCC transfers
Oct 10 04:35:07 <_muthu> gdsx: later
Oct 10 04:35:09 <romainguy> it's moronic
Oct 10 04:35:10 <gdsx> PRIVMSG romainguy :don't forget the colon
Oct 10 04:35:25 <swetland> ye gods, streaming xml should be a firing offense ^^
Oct 10 04:35:34 <romainguy> swetland: that too :)
Oct 10 04:35:42 <_muthu> irssi rocks
Oct 10 04:35:44 <_muthu> nice
Oct 10 04:35:44 <romainguy> the worst with the IRC protocol is those goddam servers
Oct 10 04:35:52 <_muthu> hope this don't crash
Oct 10 04:36:15 <gdsx> romainguy: which servers?
Oct 10 04:36:16 <romainguy> swetland: btw, there was a time when my email client was telnet in a terminal :)
Oct 10 04:36:31 <romainguy> gdsx: all of them, they all behave differently :)
Oct 10 04:36:34 <_muthu> that was 95
Oct 10 04:36:37 <gdsx> well, true
Oct 10 04:36:41 <romainguy> especially the connect part @!#
Oct 10 04:36:54 <gdsx> romainguy: of course, the capabilities stuff helps nowadays
Oct 10 04:37:05 <swetland> I still use mutt as my primary email client.  I haven't found a gui client that quite does what I want yet
Oct 10 04:37:25 <f00f-> _muthu: i've been using irc since about '02 or so
Oct 10 04:37:34 <romainguy> swetland: I'll take mutt over Gmail's web UI anyday :)
Oct 10 04:37:38 <f00f-> first ircii then BitchX then i settled on irssi
Oct 10 04:37:48 <swetland> romain: indeed.
Oct 10 04:37:55 <muthu> f00f-: yeah nice
Oct 10 04:38:13 <gdsx> romainguy: what did you write bots for?
Oct 10 04:38:27 <swetland> romain: we should be careful lest we be rounded up and sent to webapp reeducation camp ^^
Oct 10 04:38:39 <romainguy> gdsx: mostly useless/fun stuff
Oct 10 04:38:52 <gdsx> ::nod::
Oct 10 04:39:01 <romainguy> but I had one for instance that was used to quote Java files
Oct 10 04:39:07 <romainguy> it was handy for development
Oct 10 04:39:36 <gdsx> weird.  sort of like lxr?
Oct 10 04:39:44 <romainguy> never heard of lxr
Oct 10 04:39:59 <romainguy> remember, only 6 channels
Oct 10 04:40:02 <romainguy> I'm a fake geek :)
Oct 10 04:40:05 <swetland> <mrw> groobot: don't crash.
Oct 10 04:40:05 <swetland> *** Signoff: Groobot (EOF From client)
Oct 10 04:40:05 <swetland> <mrw> he can't follow instructions yet.
Oct 10 04:40:16 <gdsx> haha
Oct 10 04:40:21 <romainguy> that said
Oct 10 04:40:30 <romainguy> I had fun writing a bot in Python using as few lines of code as I could
Oct 10 04:40:46 <gdsx> romainguy: lxr is an interface to the linux kernel source that's pretty handy on #kernelnewbies (oftc)
Oct 10 04:40:54 <romainguy> I think it ended up with 10 lines
Oct 10 04:41:11 <romainguy> the entire IRC protocol was encoded in 2 regex
Oct 10 04:41:15 <romainguy> that was painful to debug :)
Oct 10 04:41:16 <gdsx> oh god
Oct 10 04:41:29 <romainguy> and it contained an identd server :)
Oct 10 04:41:40 <gdsx> romainguy: did it respond to pings from the... err... oh my
Oct 10 04:42:17 <muthu> 10 lines?
Oct 10 04:42:22 <f00f-> hahah nice
Oct 10 04:42:43 <romainguy> gdsx: let's just say that sometimes the bot would not connect, for some reason :)
Oct 10 04:42:46 <f00f-> i hope you supported \001ACTION
Oct 10 04:43:13 <romainguy> anyway
Oct 10 04:43:20 <romainguy> all I'm saying is that the DCC protocol sucks :p
Oct 10 04:43:49 * gdsx has done everything other than CTCP (which, I guess, is "the easy stuff")
Oct 10 04:44:06 <f00f-> CTCP is in-band
Oct 10 04:44:10 <f00f-> DCC is a bitch
Oct 10 04:44:16 <f00f-> but no one uses it anymore , i hope
Oct 10 04:44:29 <romainguy> it never works anyway :)
Oct 10 04:44:34 <gdsx> f00f-: it's not the case that people don't use it any more :o)
Oct 10 04:44:48 <gdsx> f00f-: go to EFnet and join a random channel :o)
Oct 10 04:44:50 <romainguy> I did one other thing in Python that I found way worse though
Oct 10 04:44:53 <f00f-> i remember fserv's
Oct 10 04:44:57 <romainguy> an Outlook Express -> mbox converter
Oct 10 04:44:58 <f00f-> i'm on efnet and rarely see them anymore
Oct 10 04:45:06 <gdsx> romainguy: ...
Oct 10 04:45:11 <romainguy> god, Microsoft is king to invent the most fucked file formats ever
Oct 10 04:45:24 <gdsx> f00f-: aah, interesting
Oct 10 04:45:37 <romainguy> your email is encoded as a fucking tree of blobs of 512 bytes of data
Oct 10 04:45:49 <romainguy> in one single file
Oct 10 04:45:55 <romainguy> it's just disgusting
Oct 10 04:46:00 <f00f-> rofl
Oct 10 04:46:07 <f00f-> that's very disturbing
Oct 10 04:46:24 <f00f-> even in DOS days 512 bytes would have felt too little
Oct 10 04:47:02 <gdsx> f00f-: 640K is too much, though
Oct 10 04:47:08 <f00f-> :D
Oct 10 04:50:59 <gdsx> http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.os.minix/2008-06/msg00015.html
Oct 10 04:54:14 <muthu> anyone run minix?
Oct 10 04:55:09 <f00f-> i hope you're joking
Oct 10 04:56:56 <muthu> minix is a joke?
Oct 10 04:57:55 <muthu> windows 3.1 runs in 2m
Oct 10 05:06:59 <f00f-> 3.0 was sweet, i ran it in real mode
Oct 10 05:07:34 <wastrel> i'm learning java - what should i concentrate on to be effective working on the android platform?
Oct 10 05:08:39 <muthu> wastrel: just start coding in android
Oct 10 05:08:46 <muthu> that's the best way to learn android
Oct 10 05:08:50 <wastrel> i suppose
Oct 10 05:09:06 <wastrel> there's a lot of java out there
Oct 10 05:09:19 <f00f-> hello, world bro
Oct 10 05:09:21 <muthu> android uses only a minimal subset
Oct 10 05:09:27 <muthu> so just focus on android
Oct 10 05:09:32 <wastrel> did the hello world.
Oct 10 05:10:00 <muthu> wastrel: what's the app you building?
Oct 10 05:10:26 <wastrel> nothing exciting, just a little thing with system info
Oct 10 05:10:46 <muthu> yeah, develop it
Oct 10 05:11:53 <wastrel> then i want to do a little sliding numbers game
Oct 10 05:11:56 <wastrel> to get into a bit of graphics
Oct 10 05:15:53 <f00f-> PedNav is technically derived from Hello world android app
Oct 10 05:15:55 <f00f-> no joke
Oct 10 06:33:40 <muthu> now i know what to do
Oct 10 06:34:35 <muthu> need to write a fully customized component using compound component controls and tweaking an existing component thereby going forth and componentizing!
Oct 10 06:42:28 <muthu> is there a popup window control?
Oct 10 06:42:37 <romainguy__> it's called PopupWindow
Oct 10 06:42:46 <muthu> ok
Oct 10 06:43:21 <muthu> romainguy__: alert dialog with cursor (multiple choice) is broken
Oct 10 06:43:33 <romainguy__> how so?
Oct 10 06:43:49 <muthu> the checked shows up only for items on screen
Oct 10 06:43:59 <muthu> as you scroll down, the check mark is gone
Oct 10 06:44:17 <muthu> have tried in land/port
Oct 10 06:44:23 <romainguy__> how do you setup the multiple choice?
Oct 10 06:44:35 <muthu> using the cursor constructor
Oct 10 06:44:47 <romainguy__> what cursor constructor?
Oct 10 06:44:53 <muthu> arghh
Oct 10 06:45:28 <muthu> public AlertDialog.Builder  setMultiChoiceItems(Cursor cursor, String isCheckedColumn, String labelColumn, DialogInterface.OnMultiChoiceClickListener listener)
Oct 10 06:45:58 <muthu> and this bug triggered me into custom components
Oct 10 06:46:18 <romainguy__> it's probably because you need to update the database
Oct 10 06:46:28 <romainguy__> since apparently the check value comes from a column name
Oct 10 06:46:31 <muthu> romainguy__: database is on for all items
Oct 10 06:46:39 <romainguy__> what does that mean?
Oct 10 06:46:52 <muthu> the column contains "1"
Oct 10 06:46:55 <muthu> which means checked
Oct 10 06:46:58 <muthu> for all rows
Oct 10 06:47:15 <muthu> but the dialog only shows checked for the visible items
Oct 10 06:47:27 <muthu> you scroll down.. the other items are shown "not checked"
Oct 10 06:47:32 <romainguy__> ok
Oct 10 06:47:34 <romainguy__> file a bug
Oct 10 06:47:43 <muthu> ok
Oct 10 06:57:11 <muthu> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=955
Oct 10 07:04:15 <muthu> G1 is a great name
Oct 10 07:04:21 <muthu> short and sweet
Oct 10 07:04:26 <muthu> definitely beats iphone
Oct 10 07:04:56 <muthu> +1 for marketing G1
Oct 10 07:06:33 <Adamant_> iPhone sounds better
Oct 10 07:06:36 <Adamant_> honestly
Oct 10 07:06:44 <muthu> ha come on
Oct 10 07:06:53 <romainguy__> G1 is just one Android phone
Oct 10 07:06:54 <muthu> iphone sounded better before G1
Oct 10 07:06:55 <romainguy__> there will be many more
Oct 10 07:07:03 <romainguy__> so, who cares? :)
Oct 10 07:07:11 <muthu> yeah, but tmo really nailed it with G1
Oct 10 07:07:14 <muthu> cool name
Oct 10 07:07:48 <muthu> motorola come up with fancy names
Oct 10 07:07:54 <muthu> wonder what they have for android
Oct 10 07:08:18 <Adamant_> romainguy: true
Oct 10 07:08:19 <romainguy__> probably Androidr
Oct 10 07:08:32 <romainguy__> or Andrdr
Oct 10 07:08:44 <Adamant_> TheseAreTheDroidsYou'reLookingFor
Oct 10 07:08:56 <muthu> ando
Oct 10 07:11:24 <Adamant_> that sounds good
Oct 10 07:11:27 <Adamant_> Ando
Oct 10 07:11:35 <Adamant_> nice and friendly
Oct 10 07:12:03 <muthu> Ando rocks
Oct 10 08:39:53 <muthu> romainguy__: have a doubt in photostream usersadapter
Oct 10 08:40:16 <muthu> usersadpaters starts pulling data from the cursor in the constructor
Oct 10 08:40:28 <muthu> is the cursor moved to first position?
Oct 10 08:41:57 <romainguy> er what?
Oct 10 08:42:00 <romainguy> it doesn't pull data
Oct 10 08:42:47 <muthu> oh got it
Oct 10 08:42:50 <muthu> my cursor must be empty
Oct 10 08:43:30 <muthu> was in general wondered if the cursor was initialized correctly in adapter constructor
Oct 10 08:44:43 <muthu> now i get a new one
Oct 10 08:44:46 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  445): Caused by: android.database.sqlite.SQLiteException: bind or column index out of range: handle 0x1e9890
Oct 10 08:49:41 <anno^da_> good morning guys
Oct 10 08:49:52 <anno^da_> http://pulse2.com/2008/10/10/google-android-15-million-t-mobile-htc-g1s-have-been-pre-sold/  <- can this be true ? 1.5 million pre sold devices ?
Oct 10 08:50:23 <muthu> that's huge
Oct 10 08:51:21 <romainguy> I think they are mistaking the pre-order devices and the number of devices HTC said they wanted to manufacture
Oct 10 08:51:25 <romainguy> it's not the same thing
Oct 10 08:52:56 <anno^da_> Yeah thats what came to my mind as well.
Oct 10 08:53:41 <muthu> big news
Oct 10 08:53:50 <muthu> this is more than iphone
Oct 10 08:55:16 <anno^da_> romainguy: have you tested the iTunes remote control: http://dacp.jsharkey.org/ ?
Oct 10 08:55:21 <anno^da_> for Android
Oct 10 08:59:36 <jasta> jeffrey's such a pimp :)
Oct 10 08:59:47 <jasta> i didnt realize he reverse engineered that stuff hehe
Oct 10 08:59:51 <anno^da_> :-D
Oct 10 09:03:59 <anno^da_> A lot mac users will love that app :-)
Oct 10 09:04:02 * umdk1d3 wakes up, doing odd hours again
Oct 10 09:04:18 <umdk1d3> its snowing ^.^
Oct 10 09:05:05 <jasta> hmm, does minHeight work?
Oct 10 09:06:52 <muthu> snow?
Oct 10 09:06:58 <muthu> in SF?
Oct 10 09:07:09 <jasta> oh yes, it does.  it's just goofy :)
Oct 10 09:07:40 <muthu> jasta: any idea on the sqliteexception
Oct 10 09:07:52 <muthu> android.database.sqlite.SQLiteException: bind or column index out of range
Oct 10 09:08:14 <jasta> whats the line that fired it?  (uhh, are you using a column index out of range?)
Oct 10 09:10:30 <muthu> why would it be out of range
Oct 10 09:10:33 <muthu> its a regular query
Oct 10 09:10:44 <jasta> just show me the line
Oct 10 09:11:52 <muthu>             Cursor cur = getContentResolver().query(
Oct 10 09:11:53 <muthu>                     com.mobeegal.android.content.Catalogs.ItemType.CONTENT_URI,
Oct 10 09:11:53 <muthu>                     itemTypeProjection, sel, selArgs, null);
Oct 10 09:12:11 <jasta> and which frame throws that exception?
Oct 10 09:12:12 <mickrobk_> snow??
Oct 10 09:12:22 * mickrobk_ is excited for the ski season
Oct 10 09:12:27 <umdk1d3> =D
Oct 10 09:12:37 <umdk1d3> mickrobk_: were getting 6-10" in town, and up to 20" in mountains
Oct 10 09:12:58 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  259): Caused by: android.database.sqlite.SQLiteException: bind or column index out of range: handle 0x1a6650
Oct 10 09:13:01 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  259):        at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteProgram.native_bind_string(Native Method)
Oct 10 09:13:04 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  259):        at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteProgram.bindString(SQLiteProgram.java:178)
Oct 10 09:13:07 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  259):        at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteQuery.bindString(SQLiteQuery.java:174)
Oct 10 09:13:10 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  259):        at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteDirectCursorDriver.query(SQLiteDirectCursorDriver.java:55)
Oct 10 09:13:13 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  259):        at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteDatabase.rawQueryWithFactory(SQLiteDatabase.java:1017)
Oct 10 09:13:15 <umdk1d3> muthu: also you should do some SEO, cuz mobeegal should be at the top of its google page  ;)
Oct 10 09:13:17 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  259):        at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteQueryBuilder.query(SQLiteQueryBuilder.java:312)
Oct 10 09:13:20 <muthu> E/AndroidRuntime(  259):        at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteQueryBuilder.query(SQLiteQueryBuilder.java:262)
Oct 10 09:13:26 <jasta> ugh
Oct 10 09:13:35 <muthu> umdk1d3: yeah, first need to build it
Oct 10 09:13:40 <mickrobk_> umdk1d3: \o/ damn!! it dropped to 40 here today, no snow yet though, im jealous
Oct 10 09:13:41 <muthu> this query was working
Oct 10 09:13:46 <muthu> i copy paste into another activity
Oct 10 09:13:48 <muthu> it fails
Oct 10 09:14:22 <jasta> i meant the frame in your application space that generated it...surely it must be in your content provider
Oct 10 09:14:50 <muthu> jasta: its the query statement
Oct 10 09:15:03 <muthu> in the content provider
Oct 10 09:15:10 <jasta> *ugh*
Oct 10 09:16:02 <jasta> would you like me to look at your problem or not?
Oct 10 09:22:56 <muthu> the same query works elsewhere
Oct 10 09:22:57 <muthu> wierd
Oct 10 09:23:04 <muthu> weird
Oct 10 10:35:10 <muthu> OMG
Oct 10 12:52:11 <muthu> Android iTunes Remote Control: SWEET!
Oct 10 12:52:19 <muthu> http://phandroid.com/2008/10/09/android-itunes-remote-control-sweet/
Oct 10 12:52:32 <muthu> da mon jeff
Oct 10 12:52:58 <Disconnect> nice
Oct 10 13:06:41 <anno^da_> get a Mac *cough*
Oct 10 13:06:43 <anno^da_> ;)
Oct 10 13:09:48 * Disconnect has a mac, but that says it works on windows too
Oct 10 13:09:53 <Disconnect> (which i don't have, so..)
Oct 10 13:10:21 <Disconnect> well.. i guess technically i've still got an xp vm around somewhere. and i don't think i deleted the vista vmware-fusion vm i was playing with a while back. but...
Oct 10 13:12:26 <anno^da_> I adore the look of this video: http://vimeo.com/1154024
Oct 10 13:14:33 <Disconnect> nice. hv30?
Oct 10 13:14:42 * Disconnect wants to meet katie :P
Oct 10 13:14:48 <anno^da_> haha :-)
Oct 10 13:14:53 <anno^da_> yeah it is a hv30
Oct 10 13:15:21 <anno^da_> but with the Breavis 35
Oct 10 13:15:34 <anno^da_> -a
Oct 10 13:16:33 * Disconnect had to look that up - need a nice camcorder, have yet to get one
Oct 10 13:17:33 <anno^da_> Haha you had the same thoughts I had after watching that video
Oct 10 13:17:42 <anno^da_> and the HV30 is not that expensive
Oct 10 13:17:57 <anno^da_> Together with Final Cut Express you have a decent combination :-)
Oct 10 13:19:48 <Disconnect> yah
Oct 10 13:20:15 <Disconnect> random side note (ooh, an on-topic question! :) ..) does the g1 sync/save sms's to gmail?
Oct 10 13:21:28 <anno^da_> A good question that i dont know :-)
Oct 10 13:25:02 <Disconnect> anyone got a g1 ?
Oct 10 13:25:15 * Disconnect knows it'll be a few hours before googlers come to work
Oct 10 13:25:36 <anno^da_> :-)
Oct 10 13:26:33 <anno^da_> I hate waiting for a device. I waited 1 year for the Neo Freeruner to realize that it wouldn't fit my needs with Openmoko. And now I'm waiting again :-)
Oct 10 13:28:15 <Disconnect> lol
Oct 10 13:30:31 <Disconnect> waiting gives me time to learn java :) (well, relearn, but .. it was 1998ish)
Oct 10 13:31:07 <anno^da_> well at the moment it gives me time to read some books about multithreading and patterns
Oct 10 13:31:29 <anno^da_> http://www.google.com/books?id=k4_7uAJrwkEC&pg=PA1&dq=Entwurfsmuster+von+Kopf&hl=de&sig=EkuNIumkuhTU4igUJ2fK8UhpZ2I#PPA62,M1  <- I love this one about patterns. It is so different to other books in that area.
Oct 10 13:32:11 <Disconnect> ...different as in german? :)
Oct 10 13:32:26 <Disconnect> ah its a headfirst book. yah thats the java one i'm reading :)
Oct 10 13:32:45 <Disconnect> http://www.google.com/books?id=5VTBuvfZDyoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=head+first+java&hl=de&sig=ACfU3U2SjW-o83Y3TgOVlWRnWtBJnFcbvA
Oct 10 13:32:54 <plusminus_> I know someone with a g1 and I'm sooooo jealous :( ( http://www.anddev.org/get_your_android_application_tested_on_a_g1_-t3063.html )
Oct 10 13:33:24 <anno^da_> Disconnect: great it seems to be similar to my pattern book
Oct 10 13:33:26 <Disconnect> plusminus_: can you ask him if sms's are saved to the cloud?
Oct 10 13:33:30 <anno^da_> I must have a look at it :D
Oct 10 13:33:44 <plusminus_> Disconnect: You can ask him yourself :P
Oct 10 13:33:47 <Disconnect> anno^da_: yah actually the guy next to me @ work (actual programmers - i'm the only sysadmin) is reading it
Oct 10 13:34:13 <anno^da_> Disconnect: Great so I have the next book to bookmark :-)
Oct 10 13:34:24 <Disconnect> reading the design book that is
Oct 10 13:34:35 <plusminus_> Last Activity: 09 Oct 2008 @ 09:34am
Oct 10 13:35:02 <Disconnect> oreilly offers it as part of their online reader but not in pdf/ebook :/ i have a scanned version tho, its ok for reading onscreen but terrible for portable devices (was hoping to read it on my cybook)
Oct 10 13:35:59 <anno^da_> I like this kind of books
Oct 10 13:36:12 <anno^da_> I dont know they are more practical and not only theorie
Oct 10 13:36:42 <anno^da_> -ie +y
Oct 10 13:37:07 <Disconnect> its basically the same research that went into the dummies books, only with actual advanced technical content
Oct 10 13:37:58 <anno^da_> Oh great it is available here in german :-D
Oct 10 13:38:02 <Disconnect> cool
Oct 10 13:38:13 <anno^da_> But they are expensive :D
Oct 10 13:38:14 * Disconnect has the scanned -english- version. 
Oct 10 13:38:35 <anno^da_> Yeah it is just annoying to read everything on screen
Oct 10 13:38:53 <anno^da_> Without the 1500 dpi of normal paper
Oct 10 13:39:18 <Disconnect> ugh. was hoping to get some coding done this weekend but .. tinyurl.com/firkin and then rennfest.com (forgot its 2nd-to-last-weekend, we do a big party sat night)
Oct 10 13:48:05 <bnovc> what windowing system does android use? is it custom?
Oct 10 13:49:50 <Disconnect> custom
Oct 10 13:50:16 <Disconnect> grr it doesn't look like anddev does retries on the activation email :( stupid non-standard forum mailers
Oct 10 13:54:19 * Disconnect can't ask cuz anddev mailer doesn't follow rfcs
Oct 10 13:54:28 <Disconnect> so .. can someone else ask if sms's are saved to gmail? :)
Oct 10 13:56:01 <muthu> hmm nice
Oct 10 13:56:06 <muthu> if it gets save to gmail
Oct 10 13:57:10 <Disconnect> otherwise its a serious lack in the "we don't need a sync" philosophy
Oct 10 13:57:25 <Disconnect> hmm. is there a backup/restore app?
Oct 10 13:58:46 <Disconnect> for that matter, the security doc doesn't really address what you can do to get root access (eg for backups, syncing, etc)
Oct 10 13:58:57 <Disconnect> obviously it would need big huge user warnings but..
Oct 10 14:31:21 <muthu> if buttons are added to a list, how to get the focus to the buttons, instead of list?
Oct 10 14:31:45 <muthu> forgot how i did this before..
Oct 10 14:38:06 <muthu> guess disable the list focus
Oct 10 14:46:47 <thinair> Hi, I d'like to communicate with a remote server using web-services. I should send picture/ and receive picture. What would you recommanded to use rest/soap/xml-rpc for android SDK 1. I find on anndev an rpc-xml sample (actually I did'nt try it.
Oct 10 14:50:57 <jasta> are you controlling the server?
Oct 10 14:51:04 <thinair> yes
Oct 10 14:51:36 <thinair> and unfortunately it should be a .NET server...
Oct 10 14:51:39 <jasta> i would use a RESTful API which, if you must use XML, encoded using WbXML
Oct 10 14:52:43 <jasta> please do realize that mobile devices are typically an order of magnitude slower, and what you might have thought to be relatively light and fast before could turn out to be far too heavy
Oct 10 14:52:44 <thinair> RestFul will allow me to send picture to and back ? right ?
Oct 10 14:52:57 <jasta> XML parsing, for instance, is enormously inefficient
Oct 10 14:53:23 <muthu> you can't send picture with REST
Oct 10 14:53:27 <thinair> ok, so I should try to avoid xml..
Oct 10 14:53:44 <jasta> REST is just a design philosophy of a service in which calls correspond to isolated HTTP requests and responses.
Oct 10 14:53:47 <thinair> and use as much as possible the simpliest implementation..
Oct 10 14:55:18 <jasta> thinair: yes, one strategy that i prefer is to have your server support both XML (perhaps for testing) and WbXML for your production implementation
Oct 10 14:55:31 <jasta> being that they are mostly interchangable, this works well for those transitioning from the XML model
Oct 10 14:55:42 <thinair> Could somebody point my at an rest api, which was already use in an android project ? I didn't find anything in the documentation of android about rest..
Oct 10 14:55:46 <jasta> also, Android includes kxml2 2.2.2, which has a WbXML parser
Oct 10 14:56:06 <jasta> thinair: as I said, REST is a design philosophy and not a technology.
Oct 10 14:56:12 <thinair> ok..
Oct 10 14:56:48 <jasta> and contrary to what muthu said earlier, a RESTful design could trivially support submitting and receiving images in a variety of ways.
Oct 10 14:57:06 <thinair> android allow a network storage as provider.. could we imagine that behind this.. a restfull implementation is done with a remote server ?
Oct 10 14:57:09 <jasta> in the case of binary data such as this, do realize that XML should be avoided conceptually.  It isn't what you're after...
Oct 10 14:57:29 <jasta> thinair: uhm, i'm really not sure why you're not getting this...
Oct 10 14:57:39 <thinair> i would like to send metadata at the same moment (with the picture)
Oct 10 14:58:21 <Disconnect> any anddev admins here? need my confirmation email resent (or, better, for you to fix the non-standard mailer to do retries like rfc requires :) ..)
Oct 10 14:59:04 <thinair> jasta : I didn't understand, why I am not getting what ?
Oct 10 14:59:22 <jasta> thinair: "a restful impl is done with a remote server?"
Oct 10 14:59:55 <jasta> of course it would be done with a remote server.  you would not implement this type of communication with local processes.  for that, you'd use Android's binder.
Oct 10 15:00:17 <thinair> jasta : on andev there is a code sample using xml-rpc ? you would recommand not to use it ? and try with rest..
Oct 10 15:00:25 <jasta> as for storage, sure, whatever, but i would implement some type of caching.  mobile internet connections are sucky and slow
Oct 10 15:00:44 <jasta> thinair: i would strongly advise you not use XML at all, and ESPECIALLY not XML-RPC.
Oct 10 15:00:47 <Disconnect> jasta: no, no, they're blindingly fast and always available. haven't you watched at&t's 3g-network ads? :)
Oct 10 15:01:13 <jasta> the only reason to use XML-RPC would be when you don't control the service you want to use, and some bonehead programmer gave you no other choice
Oct 10 15:03:40 <jasta> thinair: it's not hard to see why.  sniff some packets for a completely trivial server and you'll realize there is a terrible signal-to-noise ratio, and also there is a ridiculous document structure for the phone to choke on
Oct 10 15:04:11 <jasta> really, you must get it through your head that phones are _SLOW_ and on a limited battery
Oct 10 15:04:19 <jasta> you want them not do anything wasteful
Oct 10 15:12:47 <muthu> how to pass a parent event to a child in a view?
Oct 10 15:12:55 <muthu> like a keystroke
Oct 10 15:13:30 <cbeust_> Events go the other way
Oct 10 15:13:52 <muthu> oh ok
Oct 10 15:14:04 <muthu> then prolly i'm not handling in the child
Oct 10 15:14:10 <muthu> lemme check
Oct 10 15:15:13 <thinair> jasta: thank you ! I will try the restAPI now..
Oct 10 15:15:46 <jasta> REST isn't an API
Oct 10 15:27:06 <ttuttle> =D
Oct 10 15:28:02 <jasta> hello
Oct 10 15:29:16 <ttuttle> good morning jasta
Oct 10 15:30:43 <summatusmentis> I wish I had more time to play with Android
Oct 10 15:31:22 <jasta> ditto
Oct 10 15:31:44 <jasta> i wish i had more vacation.  i would love to take 2 weeks off to work on this.
Oct 10 15:32:19 <ttuttle> jasta: Oh, how is Five going?
Oct 10 15:32:41 <jasta> Great, it's all building and running with the old UI
Oct 10 15:32:50 <jasta> i'm polishing up some internal logic then i'll attack building a new UI
Oct 10 15:32:59 <ttuttle> jasta: Nice.
Oct 10 15:33:17 <jasta> There may or may not be a few Googlers roaming around San Francisco rocking out with it ;)
Oct 10 15:33:51 <ttuttle> jasta: Heh.
Oct 10 15:33:58 <ttuttle> jasta: It'd be cool if Google bought it.
Oct 10 15:33:59 <summatusmentis> what is Five?
Oct 10 15:34:04 <summatusmentis> I assume it's an app
Oct 10 15:34:15 <ttuttle> summatusmentis: Five is magic.
Oct 10 15:34:27 <summatusmentis> I like magic
Oct 10 15:34:34 <jasta> ttuttle: Why would they buy an open source project? :)
Oct 10 15:34:43 <ttuttle> jasta: Well, pay you to work on it.
Oct 10 15:34:45 <jasta> It would be cooler if they just bought up all the developers
Oct 10 15:34:48 <jasta> i.e. ME! :P
Oct 10 15:34:54 <ttuttle> jasta: Yeah.
Oct 10 15:34:56 <summatusmentis> they might not, they might just hire the main dev
Oct 10 15:34:57 <summatusmentis> :)
Oct 10 15:35:04 <summatusmentis> I'm slow at typing
Oct 10 15:35:09 <ttuttle> summatusmentis: That's okay.
Oct 10 15:35:29 <summatusmentis> http://codespeak.net/z3/five/ this five?
Oct 10 15:35:46 <jasta> no, this five: five.googlecode.com
Oct 10 15:37:56 <jasta> ttuttle: you're more than welcome to try it out if you'd like, i'd love the feedback :P
Oct 10 15:38:30 <jasta> though do realize that the UI is just slopped together from the old crap.  it's at its core what it will be for the production release but lots of screens are not quite what they should be.
Oct 10 15:40:18 <ttuttle> jasta: So, my expectations for Android UIs is not very high yet.
Oct 10 15:40:57 <jasta> well that's great, because mine sucks
Oct 10 15:40:59 * ttuttle glares at whoever STANDARDIZED ON "OK" AND "CANCEL" BUTTONS IN CONFIRMATION DIALOGS!
Oct 10 15:43:01 <jasta> ttuttle: well anyway it's usable now if you have a media server with Linux on it somewhere...
Oct 10 15:43:32 <ttuttle> jasta: My laptop can do that ;-)
Oct 10 15:44:02 <jasta> it's not that difficult to set up either.  the INSTALL instructions are updated and correct to build the whole thing (server included)
Oct 10 15:44:11 <jasta> the server is dead simple, with a GTK setup GUI at first
Oct 10 15:44:27 <jasta> and the client is pretty obvious too.  install both five-client and five-music, then run Five Sync and fill in your server address.
Oct 10 15:44:34 <jasta> that's basically it
Oct 10 15:44:52 <ttuttle> jasta: nice
Oct 10 15:44:57 <ttuttle> jasta: I assume it works well over WiFi?
Oct 10 15:45:03 <jasta> of course though the server claims to support UPnP, it currently does not.  So you'll have to make arrangements to get the connection from your router to your server.
Oct 10 15:45:12 <ttuttle> jasta: (I don't want to push all the junk over EDGE.)
Oct 10 15:45:19 <jasta> it works best over Wi-Fi of course.  but 3G and EDGE work just fine
Oct 10 15:45:24 <ttuttle> jasta: Cool.
Oct 10 15:46:28 <summatusmentis> jasta: so it's a way to stream media, as compared to keeping a local copy on the phone
Oct 10 15:46:46 <jasta> well, it does keep a cache on the phone
Oct 10 15:47:00 <summatusmentis> what's the backend technology?
Oct 10 15:47:09 <jasta> i wrote the server using libsyncml
Oct 10 15:47:18 <summatusmentis> I see
Oct 10 15:47:34 <summatusmentis> it sounds sort of like AFS, but obviously isn't
Oct 10 15:48:03 <ttuttle> AFS?!
Oct 10 15:48:07 <ttuttle> You mean Andrew File System?
Oct 10 15:48:09 <jasta> it is nothing like AFS
Oct 10 15:48:13 <summatusmentis> ttuttle: yeah
Oct 10 15:48:19 <jasta> extremely different from any type of remote file system, in fact
Oct 10 15:48:29 <ttuttle> It's like AFS in that it has a cache.  That's the only similarity.
Oct 10 15:48:34 <jasta> the point is that it streams/caches only media, never meta data.
Oct 10 15:48:34 <summatusmentis> jasta: well, the caching locally, etc sounded like AFS
Oct 10 15:48:39 <jasta> meta data is always locally present
Oct 10 15:48:45 <jasta> which makes it nothing like a generalized file system
Oct 10 15:48:48 <summatusmentis> right
Oct 10 15:48:59 <jasta> and also way more useful on a phone with a crap connection
Oct 10 15:49:06 <summatusmentis> so meta data is synced to the phone, and the media itself comes from streaming?
Oct 10 15:49:50 <jasta> yes.
Oct 10 15:50:05 <jasta> so scrolling around looking for music is all local data, as provided by the server
Oct 10 15:50:15 <jasta> playing music will use cache or stream when necessary
Oct 10 15:50:28 <jasta> and it will prefetch and all kinds of other goodness to ensure a good user experience
Oct 10 15:51:21 <gambi> hi, i'm just starting with the sdk and i cant use eclipse. how do i refresh with aapt my R.java file? i tried this: aapt p -M AndroidManifest.xml -I ~/Frameworks/android-sdk-mac_x86-1.0_r1/android.jar -S . but something is missing... what do i need to change?
Oct 10 15:58:43 <gambi> hm, looks like everybody is using eclipse :(
Oct 10 16:00:11 <romainguy> there's no need to invoke aapt yourself
Oct 10 16:00:24 <romainguy> even if you don't use Eclipse, you can use the build.xml file for Ant generated by the activitycreator tool
Oct 10 16:00:40 <summatusmentis> jasta: that looks really cool :)
Oct 10 16:01:18 <gambi> romainguy: thanks :)
Oct 10 16:01:51 <muthu> romainguy: when a gallery is added to a list.. the gallery doesn't scroll to right/left
Oct 10 16:01:57 <romainguy> it does
Oct 10 16:02:03 <muthu> hmm
Oct 10 16:02:06 <romainguy> our Market app does it :)
Oct 10 16:02:30 <muthu> yeah working out similar view
Oct 10 16:02:42 <muthu> how about grid?
Oct 10 16:03:37 <muthu> is there a way to pass the keydown event to the gallery?
Oct 10 16:03:45 <muthu> from whatever parent view
Oct 10 16:03:52 <romainguy> there is no need to do such a thing
Oct 10 16:04:09 <romainguy> but your adapter needs to tell ListView that its elements are focusable
Oct 10 16:04:18 <muthu> how?
Oct 10 16:04:26 <romainguy> look at the Adapter API
Oct 10 16:04:31 <muthu> ok
Oct 10 16:04:38 <romainguy> anyway, off to work
Oct 10 16:04:47 <muthu> the events docs need some work
Oct 10 16:04:51 <muthu> not really clear
Oct 10 16:05:12 <ttuttle> muthu: Many docs need work.
Oct 10 16:05:20 <romainguy__> muthu: file bugs
Oct 10 16:06:08 <muthu> allrighty
Oct 10 16:47:51 <jasta> there are so many people posting to android-developers these days that are just asking people to teach them Java basically
Oct 10 16:48:11 <jasta> "how do i download a file with Android?" like it's any different...
Oct 10 16:49:07 <f00f-> also this channel needs a FAQ
Oct 10 16:49:11 <anno^da_> :-)
Oct 10 16:49:18 <f00f-> in the topic for newbs
Oct 10 16:49:50 * anno^da_ ist hinking about his noobish questions to jasta :-)
Oct 10 16:50:35 <jasta> f00f-: agreed
Oct 10 16:51:17 <muthu> this focus thing is pretty annoying
Oct 10 16:51:44 <anno^da_> Well but I think that it is great to see even beginners starting to developer for Android
Oct 10 16:51:49 <anno^da_> -r
Oct 10 16:53:00 <muthu> that's the beauty of android
Oct 10 16:53:02 <jasta> i...don't think that's great.
Oct 10 16:53:16 <jasta> anno^da_: there will be a lot of really crappy, unstable, and slow software on Android as a result :)
Oct 10 16:53:37 <muthu> yeah, and there's will be great ones too
Oct 10 16:53:47 <muthu> the market will take care of that
Oct 10 16:54:00 <jasta> and the great ones won't be produced by helpness newbies :)
Oct 10 16:54:19 <ttuttle> So I'd like to see some sort of developer certification, so developers who write really good professional software can get a tag on the market that says that.
Oct 10 16:54:23 <muthu> a platform needs to attract everyone
Oct 10 16:54:24 <anno^da_> jasta: But they will get better ;). I dont think that only the "advanced" developers should have the chance to develope.
Oct 10 16:54:30 <ttuttle> Without locking the newbie developers out either.
Oct 10 16:54:42 <jasta> ttuttle: meh, if the market is any good the user reviews and popularity of the app should determine that well enough
Oct 10 16:54:43 <anno^da_> That would be some elite thing that I dont like.
Oct 10 16:54:53 <f00f-> yeah, i hate certifications
Oct 10 16:54:54 <muthu> android is the visual basic of mobile development
Oct 10 16:55:06 <f00f-> muthu: not quite, but almost ;)
Oct 10 16:55:17 <jasta> anno^da_: "the chance"?  everyone gets a chance to do anything, it's just that there's a high probability of failure for idiots :)
Oct 10 16:55:28 * Disconnect wonders where he counts - 15 years as a dev, 8 years as an admin, relearning java..
Oct 10 16:55:33 <jasta> or, in certain industries, a high probability of success hehe
Oct 10 16:55:36 <anno^da_> Well but what would be your solution for that ?
Oct 10 16:55:42 <ttuttle> muthu: NO!
Oct 10 16:55:47 <ttuttle> muthu: It's nowhere near that bad!
Oct 10 16:55:52 <muthu> hehe
Oct 10 16:55:55 <Disconnect> do i get a fancy badge or am i considered on par with a 13 year old cut-and-paste kid?
Oct 10 16:56:00 <jasta> anno^da_: none, i'm not saying it like it's a solvable problem.  it's just gonna exist, for sure :)
Oct 10 16:56:02 <anno^da_> I dont see the point. You have to start at some point.
Oct 10 16:56:13 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Nah, you'd be able to pick it up fairly quickly and get the cert, if there was one.,
Oct 10 16:56:15 <anno^da_> Ok thats true. :-)
Oct 10 16:56:16 <jasta> Android and Java being so _apparently_ simple will attract lots of folks who oversimplify and can't write good apps
Oct 10 16:56:47 <muthu> there's a reason google picked java
Oct 10 16:56:49 <Disconnect> jasta: that happened with everything from (in modern times) html to iphone. cream floats.
Oct 10 16:57:03 <ttuttle> muthu: It's fairly feature-rich, and easy to code in?
Oct 10 16:57:08 <ttuttle> muthu: Oh, and don't forget the VM.
Oct 10 16:57:26 <muthu> ooh yeah
Oct 10 16:57:46 <jasta> i didn't mean to start a big discussion about it hehe
Oct 10 16:58:01 <ttuttle> jasta: #android has nothing better to do ;-)
Oct 10 16:58:10 <jasta> i was just commenting that proper development in Java (and/or on Android) is not without its complexities...
Oct 10 16:58:39 <jasta> i have found that i've put tremendous energy into nuances of my project, making things work efficiently, stable, and correct.
Oct 10 16:59:03 <ttuttle> jasta: Good.
Oct 10 16:59:09 <jasta> a pleasant environment, absolutely, but nothing that any retard will pick up and develop proper apps for
Oct 10 16:59:24 <ttuttle> jasta: I don't think proper (as in high-quality, not just "working") software development is "simple" on *any* platform.
Oct 10 16:59:46 <anno^da_> Well but thats not the point. For sure the beginners wont be able to develope an app like Five.
Oct 10 16:59:47 <jasta> yeah, absolutely.  correctness takes a long time to understand.
Oct 10 17:00:27 <jasta> hehe, my roommate was asking me some questions about C last night...
Oct 10 17:01:00 <jasta> and i responded with the answer but added, "honestly though i can't remember how i know that."
Oct 10 17:01:22 <jasta> his reply, "Well, that's because you're basically a C compiler, Josh."
Oct 10 17:01:22 <jasta> hehe
Oct 10 17:01:31 <muthu> hehe
Oct 10 17:01:35 <anno^da_> Thats it :D
Oct 10 17:01:52 <anno^da_> Do you remember the times you started coding ? :-)
Oct 10 17:02:22 <jasta> yeah
Oct 10 17:04:56 <jasta> well, that depends on what you mean hehe
Oct 10 17:05:11 <jasta> i was writing BASIC at 11, but i dont count that really
Oct 10 17:05:20 <jasta> i learned C when i was 13, and wrote Gnapster when i was 15.
Oct 10 17:05:30 * Disconnect learned turboC at around 8 or so
Oct 10 17:06:00 <gdsx> jasta: have you seen The Italian Job?
Oct 10 17:07:17 <jasta> no
Oct 10 17:07:22 <jasta> man, we have this reader board at work
Oct 10 17:07:27 <anno^da_> Oh god I'm afraid of you :D.
Oct 10 17:07:28 <jasta> and we use Firefox fullscreened with some shitty HTML on it
Oct 10 17:07:39 <jasta> i want to put Android on it now
Oct 10 17:07:44 <jasta> and rewrite the reader board code ;)
Oct 10 17:07:47 <Disconnect> wow i can't even find anything earlier than turbo c 2.0.1 online. funny. i've prolly still got the floppies upstairs.
Oct 10 17:07:49 <jasta> that would be slick
Oct 10 17:08:05 <jasta> anno^da_: hmm?
Oct 10 17:08:15 <Disconnect> jasta: reader? eink dealy?
Oct 10 17:08:39 <jasta> it's just a plasma mounted on the wall for folks that come into the office
Oct 10 17:08:51 <anno^da_> jasta: It is just that I dont see myself learning this ever. :-)
Oct 10 17:09:00 <jasta> that has some custom software i slapped together to let us basically write on it and say things like "Welcome to our foobar training event"
Oct 10 17:09:15 <jasta> anno^da_: well, then you won't.
Oct 10 17:09:25 <wastrel> learning what?
Oct 10 17:11:02 <Disconnect> ah ok
Oct 10 17:11:08 <anno^da_> jasta: That is true. But I think there is a boarder when it comes to talent. Dont you think so ?
Oct 10 17:11:16 <gdsx> anno^da_: no
Oct 10 17:11:21 <jasta> err, not really
Oct 10 17:11:36 <jasta> there is certainly a point where you'll give up if you're not that interested.
Oct 10 17:11:42 <gdsx> there's a limit when it comes to motivation, though
Oct 10 17:11:45 <anno^da_> Well I know it from sports. Some people will never get over some point.
Oct 10 17:11:45 * gdsx nods at jasta 
Oct 10 17:11:50 <jasta> as einstein says, "i have no special talents, i am only passionately curious"
Oct 10 17:12:14 <gdsx> anno^da_: in most cases, I think it's because those people don't work hard enough
Oct 10 17:12:14 <wastrel> i have no special talents, i am just addicted to IRC
Oct 10 17:12:20 <jasta> anno^da_: those people are just quitters.  they should take steroids ;)
Oct 10 17:12:34 <anno^da_> Great. Then I will go on learning it :D
Oct 10 17:12:54 <jasta> unless you have a mental handicap of some kind, you should be able to figure this out :)
Oct 10 17:13:19 <jasta> programming is really quite simple.  it's about collecting a large set of rules and abstracting them as patterns.  then, arranging those familiar patterns.
Oct 10 17:13:24 <anno^da_> Great. I'm just having a handicap with math. :D
Oct 10 17:13:42 <gdsx> anno^da_: do you enjoy math at all?
Oct 10 17:13:58 <anno^da_> gdsx: Hmm to be honest not really.
Oct 10 17:14:10 <gdsx> anno^da_: well, there's your problem :o)
Oct 10 17:14:30 <jasta> well, i don't know about that generalization
Oct 10 17:14:52 <jasta> i mean, id o like math so i'm no counter-example, but i think math and programming share something in common, but they are not necessarily mutually supportive
Oct 10 17:15:48 <gdsx> jasta: No, anno^da_ mentioned "not being good at math".  I was just generalizing from above -- If you're not interested in learning about something, in most cases you won't learn about it
Oct 10 17:15:58 <jasta> oh yes, ok then
Oct 10 17:17:09 <anno^da_> gdsx: definetly. I just got the fact that I dont like math very much but like to learn programming always in the back of my head. And well I'm afraid that this problem just leads me to a dead-end street. (I dont know if thats proper english :-) )
Oct 10 17:17:54 <gdsx> anno^da_: math is fun, though; check out some problems on projecteuler
Oct 10 17:18:53 <anno^da_> projecteuler?
Oct 10 17:19:07 <anno^da_> (I dont get the meaning of it :-) )
Oct 10 17:19:18 <gdsx> google it
Oct 10 17:19:37 <anno^da_> ah Euler :-)
Oct 10 17:34:13 <jasta> i actually remember feeling really discouraged when i was in my early teens
Oct 10 17:34:20 <jasta> like that it was hopeless
Oct 10 17:34:33 <jasta> but then i was told myself to stop being such a whiny emo loser and buck up :)
Oct 10 17:34:36 <jasta> -was
Oct 10 17:43:16 <jasta> E/MediaPlayer(  707): setDataSource called in state 0
Oct 10 17:43:19 <jasta> what's state 0?
Oct 10 17:43:21 <jasta> i keep wondering about this
Oct 10 17:45:17 <jasta> what state 0 and 1?
Oct 10 17:46:40 <tethridge> I read the "first" user review yesterday and it mentioned that the g1 needed to be restarted regularly to keep it running correctly.  Anybody else here have access to a g1 that can comment on this issue?  A problem with memory leaks has me somewhat concerned.
Oct 10 17:46:59 <romainguy_> tethridge: I don't know what he did with his phone but that's definitely not my experience
Oct 10 17:47:43 <romainguy_> the phone I have in my pocket has been running for more than 10 days now
Oct 10 17:48:07 <tethridge> romainguy, the other issue he mentioned was occasional studdering of apps when starting applications.  What about that?
Oct 10 17:48:27 <tethridge> he didn't mention what apps he had running so that could have been a factor
Oct 10 17:49:09 <YanivC> afternoon folks
Oct 10 17:49:14 <YanivC> hello Rayado
Oct 10 17:49:36 <YanivC> question please.... how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Oct 10 17:50:04 <YanivC> next on the agenda.... does android have a simple alert? Ive gone onto the code blog and theres no direct answer
Oct 10 17:50:20 <romainguy_> YanivC: what do you mean by "simple alert"?
Oct 10 17:50:31 <YanivC> like an alert box (message box)
Oct 10 17:50:45 <romainguy_> you have Dialog and AlertDialog
Oct 10 17:50:50 <YanivC> i.e. javascript : alert('wheres the dang alert box');
Oct 10 17:50:56 <romainguy_> you can also use a Toast
Oct 10 17:51:11 <YanivC> no thanks just ate... alert dialog u say?
Oct 10 17:51:25 <wastrel> you're not supposed to use those i thought
Oct 10 17:51:26 <romainguy_> or Toast :)
Oct 10 17:51:30 <YanivC> lol
Oct 10 17:51:30 <romainguy_> wastrel: ??
Oct 10 17:51:32 <wastrel> the notification area for info
Oct 10 17:51:51 <YanivC> can someone hint at the recommended method for alerting?
Oct 10 17:52:06 <romainguy_> YanivC: AlertDialog or Toast :)
Oct 10 17:52:11 <jasta> actually, this has me perked up too...
Oct 10 17:52:15 <YanivC> ok cool
Oct 10 17:52:28 <jasta> romainguy_: i'd like to pick your brain a bit on five with regard to alerts...
Oct 10 17:52:44 <jasta> how do you think it should be handled when for whatever reason streaming can't happen (no network, server dead, etc)?
Oct 10 17:53:00 <jasta> i was thinking a notification when the server responds broken, and an alert when the server never responds (no network)
Oct 10 17:53:16 <YanivC> i see most of the time tho people hand alerts on thier own, i.e. instantiating an alertdialog class
Oct 10 17:53:29 <YanivC> wouldnt a generic void be best for something like that?
Oct 10 17:53:41 <romainguy_> jasta: I would personally stay away from dialogs and other forms of popups as much as possible
Oct 10 17:53:51 <YanivC> ya but sometimes you HAVE to
Oct 10 17:54:17 <romainguy_> not really
Oct 10 17:54:37 <jasta> romainguy_: so notifications even when the network stops responding?
Oct 10 17:54:56 <romainguy_> what do you mean by notifications? notifications in the status bar?
Oct 10 17:55:01 <jasta> yes
Oct 10 17:55:10 <YanivC> romainguy_... so ure saying just have a textview to display the notification?
Oct 10 17:55:11 <romainguy_> I was definitely *not* advocating this :)
Oct 10 17:55:20 <jasta> i could have an icon that is the player icon with a bang on it, when playback is busted
Oct 10 17:55:48 <jasta> romainguy_: you dont advocate using a Notification?
Oct 10 17:56:07 <romainguy_> the status bar space is scarce
Oct 10 17:56:24 <romainguy_> it's not cool to crowd it with stuff that doesn't really require your attention
Oct 10 17:56:29 <romainguy_> but if you update your play icon, that's fine
Oct 10 17:56:36 <romainguy_> just don't put a second icon
Oct 10 17:56:47 <jasta> right, my player uses an icon to indicate playback and a notif that shows whats playing
Oct 10 17:57:05 <jasta> so i could just change that anytime the song is choking or busted to just a player icon with a "!" on it or somethin
Oct 10 17:57:21 <jasta> and text that explains whats up
Oct 10 17:57:45 <jasta> i should actually use an icon too to indicate buffering, but i can't because the mediaplayer ;)
Oct 10 17:57:50 <romainguy_> then you'd have to try this feature on a device to see if it doesn't get annoying when the phone loses connection in bad reception areas :)
Oct 10 17:58:06 <jasta> well, the icon would only throw up when playback has been halted totally beacuse of this error
Oct 10 17:58:33 <jasta> then the system is supposed to go into offline mode (doesn't yet)
Oct 10 17:58:51 <jasta> but still, there's lots of caching/prefetching, so the notification would only come up when playback can't proceed
Oct 10 18:01:29 <YanivC> OMG this is so much fun :)
Oct 10 18:01:40 <YanivC> i think im falling in love lol
Oct 10 18:05:15 <Disconnect> with android?
Oct 10 18:05:51 <YanivC> ya :)
Oct 10 18:07:01 <YanivC> now if they would just build a better IDE i would switch to JAVA at least like... 50% :)
Oct 10 18:11:26 <jasta> how the heck do i use adb logcat filterspecs?  i've never been able to figure this out
Oct 10 18:11:51 <romainguy_> tagname:level
Oct 10 18:12:01 <jasta> but it always prints everything
Oct 10 18:12:05 <romainguy_> for instance adb lolcat Email:d for the Debug level and the Email tag
Oct 10 18:12:09 <romainguy_> oh and I forgot
Oct 10 18:12:13 <romainguy_> you want to add *:s too
Oct 10 18:12:17 <romainguy_> to silence everything else
Oct 10 18:12:34 <fadden_> I think it goes left to right, so you'd want the "*:s" first.
Oct 10 18:13:46 <wastrel> lolcat app
Oct 10 18:13:48 <wastrel> that would be good
Oct 10 18:13:51 <jasta> the docs suck, i wouldve never figured that out
Oct 10 18:15:46 <romainguy_> wastrel: adb lolcat works :)
Oct 10 18:15:56 <jasta> ahh, adb logcat -s Foo works
Oct 10 18:17:03 <jasta> *yargh*
Oct 10 18:17:10 <jasta> seriously, what the hell is state 0 of the MediaPlayer?
Oct 10 18:17:33 <wastrel> adb lolcat eh.  i'm at work unfortunately :]
Oct 10 18:17:39 <jeld> how does layout_weight property works?
Oct 10 18:18:11 <YanivC> i think its sort of like z-index ca. css
Oct 10 18:18:42 <jeld> I was looking for a way to equally distribute controls in a layout and width="0dip" weight="1" did the magic trick, now I want to find out how the magic works :)
Oct 10 18:18:46 <romainguy_> jeld: it indicates how much of the remaining empty space you want to allocate to the widget
Oct 10 18:19:06 <romainguy_> in this case if all your controls have the same weight, the remaining space will be equally distributed
Oct 10 18:19:22 <romainguy_> and by setting them all to a width of 0, the remaining space == the total available space
Oct 10 18:19:25 <jeld> romainguy, why didn't it work the same by default?
Oct 10 18:19:29 <romainguy_> (using width=0 also triggers an optimization)
Oct 10 18:20:08 <jeld> what optimization?
Oct 10 18:20:32 <romainguy_> it's faster
Oct 10 18:20:38 <jeld> OK
Oct 10 18:27:07 <jeld> romainguy, thanks
Oct 10 18:30:48 <jasta> ok, this has got to be a bug
Oct 10 18:30:49 <jasta> what the hell
Oct 10 18:31:25 <jasta> all i'm doing is calling setDataSource, prepareAsync, then stop (before start), reset, and setDataSource again
Oct 10 18:31:32 <jasta> and that causes an illegalstateexception
Oct 10 18:31:40 <jasta> it only works if after prepareAsync is a start first
Oct 10 18:32:05 <jasta> so apparently the MediaPlayer can't be reset and tossed before it starts playing?  that's ridiculous, playback of a stream doesn't begin until after the buffer fills
Oct 10 18:32:15 <jasta> surely the user may wish to cancel their stream before that happens
Oct 10 18:32:27 <jasta> i guess i could go back to stupidly recycling the MediaPlayer object
Oct 10 18:42:23 <dmoffett> did you try reset?
Oct 10 18:42:47 <dmoffett> Resets the MediaPlayer to its uninitialized state.
Oct 10 18:43:05 <YanivC> whats with the crazy ass naming convention here? No uppercase letter for xml file name?
Oct 10 18:43:18 <wastrel> hi
Oct 10 18:52:41 <jasta> dmoffett: yes, my series of calls (as i just logged) is:
Oct 10 18:52:52 <jasta> D/StreamMediaPlayer( 1101): stop
Oct 10 18:52:52 <jasta> D/StreamMediaPlayer( 1101): reset
Oct 10 18:52:52 <jasta> D/StreamMediaPlayer( 1101): setDataSource
Oct 10 18:52:52 <jasta> D/StreamMediaPlayer( 1101): prepareAsync
Oct 10 18:52:52 <jasta> D/StreamMediaPlayer( 1101): stop
Oct 10 18:52:55 <jasta> D/StreamMediaPlayer( 1101): reset
Oct 10 18:52:57 <jasta> D/StreamMediaPlayer( 1101): setDataSource
Oct 10 18:53:14 <jasta> the second setDataSource throws IllegalStateException.  the reason it does so is because play() was never called.  If play() is called, it won't do this
Oct 10 18:53:25 <dmoffett> I see.
Oct 10 18:54:06 <dmoffett> seems like a bug to me.
Oct 10 18:55:24 <dmoffett> so you are calling stop?
Oct 10 18:55:57 <dmoffett> why are you calling stop if you have not started play?
Oct 10 19:00:46 <jasta> dmoffett: well, normally i do not
Oct 10 19:00:51 <jasta> i added it because thats what i thought was broken :)
Oct 10 19:01:02 <jasta> i originally just called reset, setDataSource
Oct 10 19:01:16 <jasta> the bug is that between prepareAsync and play(), the MediaPlayer is in a state which cannot be manipulated it seems
Oct 10 19:01:28 <jasta> but after my failure to call setDataSource, i can call it again and have it work
Oct 10 19:01:58 <dmoffett> I see, interested since my app may face a similar issue.
Oct 10 19:03:34 <jasta> if i call play (if i wait until prepared listener fires, then trigger this code), it works
Oct 10 19:03:58 <dmoffett> Cool, thanks.
Oct 10 19:04:05 <jasta> i'm gonna try working around it by catching the illegalstateexception and trying one more time before throwing
Oct 10 19:04:13 <jasta> i filed issue 957
Oct 10 19:07:02 <Disconnect> hmm. my upset at anddev mailer daemon might be incorrect, looks like my mailserver was moderately broken. kinda.. well.. refusing all mail.
Oct 10 19:07:24 <tomgibara> How are all of the android application stores that are springing-up preventing people from downloading the apks and then redistributing them?
Oct 10 19:07:26 <Disconnect> we'l see if it does retries tho :)
Oct 10 19:08:20 <YanivC> so has anyone written a virtual portrait keyboard for android yet?
Oct 10 19:08:29 <YanivC> like a suretype keyboard
Oct 10 19:09:22 <tomgibara> YanivC: I might, if/when I see the API Google provide for it
Oct 10 19:09:37 <YanivC> its supposed tobe out soon isnt it?
Oct 10 19:10:00 <YanivC> hey is there a preferred method in using either menu items or buttons?
Oct 10 19:11:32 <tomgibara> YanivC: do you mean new APIs?
Oct 10 19:12:02 <YanivC> well i mean the WHOLE sdk
Oct 10 19:12:29 <tomgibara> The 1.0 SDK is available now
Oct 10 19:13:31 <YanivC> no ya i know that... but I remember reading online just a few days ago that there are parts of the sdk that arent yet released, or something to that effect
Oct 10 19:14:33 <tomgibara> Various significant parts of the SDK source code are to be released around the time that phones become available on the 22nd of this month. Maybe that's what you read.
Oct 10 19:21:19 <YanivC> ummmm pray tell ye gurus of android.... how doeseth one placeth an image onto wherein the menu item?
Oct 10 19:21:57 <YanivC> tomgibara prolly
Oct 10 19:24:29 <tomgibara> YanivC: That's very poor Elizabethan English. Try MenuItem.setIcon()
Oct 10 19:25:09 <YanivC> tomgibara :) sorry.... Im rusty on my Victorian English
Oct 10 19:25:17 <YanivC> or Elizabethian
Oct 10 19:26:58 <YanivC> ok got it... so instantion menu item (MenuItem M) and then setIcon... cool beans
Oct 10 19:30:54 <YanivC> wow... Im really impressed with how is it is to pick up android so far
Oct 10 19:31:00 <YanivC> how easy it is
Oct 10 19:42:30 <dmoffett> We are passing into positive territory.  Dow up +101.3.  It would be nice if we have a strong recovery for the release of Android.
Oct 10 19:42:40 * Disconnect aims to turn his first java app this century into a simple little android app (for $1) tonight. with a ready-for-testers version mondayish hopefully :)
Oct 10 19:42:43 <Disconnect> lol
Oct 10 19:44:26 <Disconnect> i don't think the phone has much to do with the down
Oct 10 19:44:28 <Disconnect> er, dow
Oct 10 19:44:40 <jeld> I want to bind a List<String> to a ListView. Do I create and set SimpleAdapter? Is there a sample code somewhere?
Oct 10 19:45:45 <dmoffett> The success of Android depends on people spending money.  If they see they have lost a lot their current phone may seem like a prudent choice.
Oct 10 19:46:59 <jeld> dmoffett, http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gHs5OM3gFG_DytQQZFbWfgPT08MAD93NLU480
Oct 10 19:48:20 <dmoffett> My expectations are certainly lower, so I would be happy if the DOW closes in positive territory.  :-)
Oct 10 19:48:25 <Hero-> I wonder what nokia does to counter android, I read somehting about making symbian easier
Oct 10 19:49:30 <unix_lappy> well they own majority market share.
Oct 10 19:49:52 <unix_lappy> so as more people buy smartphones, it makes sense to get communities involved and excited about their platform.
Oct 10 19:51:17 <Hero-> I wonder if symbian can be 'cleaned' so it will offer a more joyous programming environment
Oct 10 19:52:02 <Disconnect> i used to think palm was the worst small-device bastardazation of a standard language i'd ever see. then i saw symbian. (i still have nightmares.)
Oct 10 19:52:23 <Disconnect> series 80 tho, dunno if s60 was better.
Oct 10 19:54:25 <Hero-> there is some new nokia 'iphone'(UI)like coming out, wonder if it be on symbian
Oct 10 19:54:45 <Hero-> guessing major rewite if so
Oct 10 20:00:21 <unix_lappy> well it's essentially a bunch of layers, though no one besides nokia knows how integrated they are and whether their new UI will essentially be an Windows Mobile 6.1 like debauchery
Oct 10 20:01:00 <unix_lappy> i've heard that without question it's not the most enjoyable web platform to play with.
Oct 10 20:20:12 <jasta> dmoffett: you there?
Oct 10 20:20:22 <dmoffett> yes
Oct 10 20:21:31 <jasta> i think i might have a work around, but then i broke it with stupid shit
Oct 10 20:21:34 <jasta> so nm, hang on again :)
Oct 10 20:27:41 <jasta> dmoffett: my solution works.  catch IllegalStateException, call reset(), then setDataSource agian.
Oct 10 20:27:44 <jasta> and that will work
Oct 10 20:28:33 <dmoffett> Nice
Oct 10 20:29:15 <dmoffett> Well maybe not nice but a work around.  Thank you.
Oct 10 20:29:20 <jasta> mp.reset();
Oct 10 20:29:20 <jasta> try { mp.setDataSource(url);
Oct 10 20:29:20 <jasta> } catch (IllegalStateException e) { mp.reset(); mp.setDataSource(url);
Oct 10 20:29:20 <jasta> }
Oct 10 20:29:22 <jasta> mp.prepareAsync();
Oct 10 20:29:29 <jasta> that didnt paste well, but you get the idea
Oct 10 20:29:31 <jasta> that works
Oct 10 20:29:38 <dmoffett> Cool, thanks
Oct 10 20:30:41 <jasta> but of course you need way more code there to make it work
Oct 10 20:30:45 <jasta> because you need to reset all your listeners
Oct 10 20:31:01 <jasta> but i've wrapped the class so i can hide this bug completely
Oct 10 20:34:47 <dmoffett> What is the name of your class?  I assume I can check it out from Five?
Oct 10 20:35:07 <dmoffett> Not that I would peek or anything.  :-)
Oct 10 20:35:14 <jasta> StreamMediaPlayer
Oct 10 20:35:29 <jasta> but there's a lot of supporting code, LocalHttpServer, TailStream, etc.
Oct 10 20:35:45 <jasta> it's essentially my encapsulated class to work around all the sucky evils of the MediaPlayer
Oct 10 20:35:52 <jasta> but it doesn't work around all of them
Oct 10 20:35:59 <jasta> just all the ones i care about :)
Oct 10 20:36:46 <dmoffett> do you think changes are on the way or Google is satisfied with the current level of functionality?
Oct 10 20:37:06 <jasta> honestly, i dont know.  i hope they are open to contributors because i would love nothing more than to fix this miserable piece of crap class
Oct 10 20:37:32 <jasta> i havent committed my work around yet btw, if you go look
Oct 10 20:37:34 <jasta> i will in just a second
Oct 10 20:37:44 <wastrel> commit what now?
Oct 10 20:38:17 <dmoffett> I am in Objective C land now.  Android land tonight so no worries.
Oct 10 20:38:37 <wastrel> iphone
Oct 10 20:39:07 <dmoffett> In this case OSX applications.
Oct 10 20:39:58 <jasta> dmoffett: btw, my StreamMediaPlayer essentially adds setDataSource(RandomAccessStream)
Oct 10 20:40:12 <jasta> uses an HTTP server to do this, but its implementation is pretty well isolated from that
Oct 10 20:41:20 <Terdhex> has anybody gotten an EMAIL application to work on android 1.0?
Oct 10 20:41:36 <wastrel> doesn't it come with an imap client?
Oct 10 20:42:12 <Terdhex> I was looking into SMTP'ing something out
Oct 10 20:43:44 <dmoffett> jasta: It will not hurt to study some code.  Coding in isolation f tends to create a narrow view of things.
Oct 10 20:43:55 <dmoffett> I would like to look at your HTTP server as well.
Oct 10 20:44:18 <jasta> actually, i'm rewriting the http server next.  i used httpcore for the initial implementation, but i am not happy with how heavy it is
Oct 10 20:44:31 <jasta> i will reimplement it all myself (the subset of http i implement is very trivial)
Oct 10 20:46:56 <dmoffett> Cool, I wrote one years ago in Java but I am sure it was pretty lame.   Can't think of to many lines of code that I would not go back an re-write.  :-)
Oct 10 20:52:50 <jasta> fixing logic/synchronization bugs now tho :)
Oct 10 21:04:14 <herriojr> hey, is it possible to restrict what applications can read from a provider based on userID?
Oct 10 21:04:36 <herriojr> so I can make it so only my userID can access it?
Oct 10 21:35:29 <alexsaproshin> hm
Oct 10 21:41:04 <abc[android]> why quite?
Oct 10 21:45:23 <mohbana> Android coming to the HTC Touch HD?  someone please tell me this is true, i'd hate to guy the G1 to discover that a better phone will ship android
Oct 10 22:12:16 <umdk1d3> mohbana: of course there will be better phones lol
Oct 10 22:13:20 <umdk1d3> and to be honest i can see tmob holding back supply to create insane demand over next few months, so it might be very hard for developers to get their hands on g1s
Oct 10 22:13:29 <umdk1d3> (all imho)
Oct 10 22:14:46 <jasta> umdk1d3: i am going to stand in fuckin line
Oct 10 22:14:54 <jasta> it's unacceptable that i not get one immediately
Oct 10 22:15:20 <ttuttle> jasta: ...
Oct 10 22:15:33 <jasta> ttuttle: ?
Oct 10 22:16:05 <ttuttle> jasta: "<jasta> it's unacceptable that i not get one immediately"?
Oct 10 22:16:09 <taaz> i hope they sell them in non-3g areas so i can stand in line
Oct 10 22:18:50 <taaz> what does it cost to upgrade a tower to 3g?
Oct 10 22:23:36 <umdk1d3> jasta: ouch thats right they only sell them in 3g areas
Oct 10 22:26:48 <jasta> ttuttle: well, isn't it?
Oct 10 22:26:56 <jasta> umdk1d3: that's fine for me, i'm in Seattle
Oct 10 22:27:08 <jasta> i just want to be able to got o a store very early in the morning and buy one
Oct 10 22:27:11 <jasta> i dont see how that won't work
Oct 10 22:27:25 <umdk1d3> is the release day in middle of week or a monday?
Oct 10 22:27:37 <umdk1d3> i would srsly get in line the night before
Oct 10 22:27:50 <umdk1d3> ohyea last black friday i stood in line 26 hours at best buy for 5 laptops ^.^
Oct 10 22:27:57 <jasta> ttuttle: i'm not going to sit on some wait list for weeks so fanboys can get one before me.  i'll go to the store and buy one the very first day theyre out
Oct 10 22:28:31 <jasta> umdk1d3: lol, maybe.  i don't know if that'll be necessary or not
Oct 10 22:29:26 <jasta> once it starts getting closer i'll do some research about how much volume which stores are expecting to get in
Oct 10 22:29:30 <jasta> and judge accordingly
Oct 10 22:32:48 <jasta> maybe i'm totally wrong about how theyre planning to launch this thing though
Oct 10 22:33:01 <umdk1d3> hm?
Oct 10 22:33:09 <jasta> they could be pulling some supply stunt so they basically release none on the launch date
Oct 10 22:33:15 <umdk1d3> i doubt that
Oct 10 22:33:17 <jasta> making everyone feel like they must buy one immediately
Oct 10 22:33:25 <umdk1d3> look at how tight their prebuy restrictions are
Oct 10 22:33:32 <umdk1d3> 11/12th or 22/24th month of contract
Oct 10 22:33:44 <jasta> what are those dates?
Oct 10 22:34:18 <umdk1d3> to prebuy you had to be in 11th month of your 1yr contract, etc
Oct 10 22:34:33 <umdk1d3> iirc
Oct 10 22:34:43 <ttuttle> or 22nd of 2yr.
Oct 10 22:34:49 <umdk1d3> yep
Oct 10 22:35:06 <jasta> that's standard though.  if you want the discounted phone price, you need to be close to end of your contract
Oct 10 22:35:23 <umdk1d3> well right, but those are the *only* ppl who can prebuy
Oct 10 22:35:31 <jasta> oh, that's pretty silly
Oct 10 22:35:48 <umdk1d3> exactly, so i think they will still have a big launch
Oct 10 22:36:07 <jasta> me too, which is why i think i should be able to get one on the first day no problem
Oct 10 22:36:10 <jasta> just show up early, and wait in line
Oct 10 22:36:21 <jasta> i'm thinking like an hour before the store opens, but again i'm planning to call ahead
Oct 10 22:36:21 <AttractiveApe> maybe
Oct 10 22:36:34 <jasta> find out about volumes and crap
Oct 10 22:36:36 <umdk1d3> jasta: yea drive by the night before just to be sure
Oct 10 22:36:49 <jasta> i will hehe
Oct 10 22:37:01 <AttractiveApe> in canada, I renewed my 2 year contract, 15 months in.
Oct 10 22:37:15 <umdk1d3> AttractiveApe: for this specific phone?
Oct 10 22:37:26 <AttractiveApe> no
Oct 10 22:45:47 <dragonball_> anyone know t-mobile's g1 phone will be sold as unlocked handset?
Oct 10 22:46:51 <umdk1d3> dragonball_: i highly doubt that it will be sold directly unlocked
Oct 10 22:47:04 <umdk1d3> but youve heard that after 30 (or 90?) days they will unlock it for customers in good standing
Oct 10 22:47:26 <f00f-> sadly probably 90 days!
Oct 10 22:47:28 * f00f- lines up at store
Oct 10 22:49:10 <umdk1d3> hmm i wonder if people with devices already would go line up at the store
Oct 10 22:49:17 <f00f-> no wai
Oct 10 22:49:17 <umdk1d3> to show it off
Oct 10 22:49:22 <f00f-> ooh
Oct 10 22:49:23 <f00f-> do it
Oct 10 22:49:28 <umdk1d3> well, then they would totally get mugged
Oct 10 22:49:29 <umdk1d3> :P
Oct 10 22:49:52 <f00f-> be careful
Oct 10 22:50:14 <jasta> absolutely
Oct 10 22:50:19 <jasta> i'll be in the U District picking mine up
Oct 10 22:50:26 <jasta> so if they run out of supply, i'm causing a riot
Oct 10 22:50:40 <umdk1d3> #include "riot.h"
Oct 10 22:50:41 <jasta> they love riots there
Oct 10 22:51:28 <ttuttle> jasta: yay
Oct 10 22:51:31 <ttuttle> jasta: riots are fun
Oct 10 22:53:14 <dmoffett> do you think you will be able to walk in and buy one?
Oct 10 22:53:23 <jasta> why wouldn't i?
Oct 10 22:53:27 <dmoffett> I am going to have to get a relative to get one?
Oct 10 22:53:37 <dmoffett> I am wondering about supply?
Oct 10 22:53:46 <jasta> well if you just show up early
Oct 10 22:54:10 <dmoffett> I can't ask a relative to stand in lines like they had for the iPhone.
Oct 10 22:54:18 <ttuttle> heh
Oct 10 22:54:30 <f00f-> they are just hoarding supply
Oct 10 22:54:36 <f00f-> to create demand
Oct 10 22:55:04 <umdk1d3> f00f-: its what they are best at--all cell companies have had years of experience doing it too
Oct 10 22:55:16 <umdk1d3> *creating demand
Oct 10 22:55:43 <umdk1d3> which btw has anyone seen g1 commercials?!?
Oct 10 22:56:11 <umdk1d3> ive had my mythbox recording random primetime stuff and inverting the mythtv commercial cuts to just watch through the commercials  ;)
Oct 10 22:56:36 <jasta> for real? :)
Oct 10 22:56:37 <jasta> oh man
Oct 10 22:56:52 <umdk1d3> well i wrote the script to invert the cutlists, but havent run it on any of em yet lol
Oct 10 22:57:05 <umdk1d3> was thinking about having it take png snapshots every 5 sec or something durnig the commrecials
Oct 10 22:57:08 <umdk1d3> to quick-browse
Oct 10 22:57:16 <dmoffett> Will the phone work outside of 3G areas?
Oct 10 22:57:27 <gdsx> dmoffett: yes
Oct 10 22:58:00 <dmoffett> Full functionality outside of 3G of course?
Oct 10 22:58:01 <unix_lappy> i think this whole wont be sold in stores where 3g isnt available will confuse people and they wont see the desired market penetration.
Oct 10 22:58:22 <umdk1d3> ooh jasta did i tell ya about my other idea?
Oct 10 22:58:31 <jasta> no?
Oct 10 22:58:36 <umdk1d3> auto-login to wifi networks that have legal agreements  ;)
Oct 10 22:58:46 <umdk1d3> build a heuristic to look for "i agree" buttons
Oct 10 22:58:57 <umdk1d3> or have the user teach the phone how to login to wifi networks
Oct 10 22:59:00 <dmoffett> Some these decision makers should be penetrated.
Oct 10 22:59:37 <umdk1d3> then the service sits in the background, and auto-logs in when in the area of the network
Oct 10 22:59:42 <umdk1d3> instead of having to load it in browser
Oct 10 22:59:49 <dmoffett> I don't think there will be a single place in Colorado to buy a G1.
Oct 10 23:00:00 <umdk1d3> that way gmail or whatever needs to sync with web just starts working
Oct 10 23:00:36 <umdk1d3> instead of just pounding at the local eula redir screen
Oct 10 23:00:46 <jasta> umdk1d3: i dont know what youre talking about
Oct 10 23:00:58 <jasta> not a clue :)
Oct 10 23:01:13 <umdk1d3> okay so hotel that makes you click "i agree" to a pile of legal crap before using wifi
Oct 10 23:01:23 <umdk1d3> or public wifi captive portals
Oct 10 23:04:30 <jasta> i dont ever encounter those, but then i dont use wi-fi much
Oct 10 23:05:20 <jasta> but then most hotels/captive portals i have seen are non-free
Oct 10 23:06:13 <umdk1d3> well you could "teach" it how to login to, say, the captive portal at your workplace
Oct 10 23:06:52 <jasta> are captive portals really that popular?  i think the whole idea is f'n stupid
Oct 10 23:07:14 <jasta> my wi-fi network at work gives open access to the internet
Oct 10 23:07:20 <jasta> and every wi-fi network i've ever set up
Oct 10 23:07:37 * umdk1d3 waits for jasta to get v&  =D
Oct 10 23:07:44 <jasta> v&?
Oct 10 23:07:57 <umdk1d3> v&=van'ed=partyvan'ed
Oct 10 23:08:19 <jasta> i don't know what that is, but regardless, the networks are extremely well secured.
Oct 10 23:08:35 <jasta> i just happen to know a lot about netfilter and tc, and use openwrt routers ;)
Oct 10 23:09:00 <umdk1d3> sure, but you offer internet to anyone driving by yes?
Oct 10 23:09:17 <jasta> yes, after netfilter and tc gets its hands on it
Oct 10 23:10:43 <jasta> what is partyvan'ed?
Oct 10 23:10:51 <jasta> i'm curious, though not concerned in the least
Oct 10 23:11:01 <gdsx> jasta: it's a special collaborative version of `ed`
Oct 10 23:11:29 <gdsx> jasta: you know it's 21st century material because it uses unicode question marks
Oct 10 23:12:13 <umdk1d3> lool
Oct 10 23:12:45 <umdk1d3> jasta:   http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/lolznerd/Motivation/Partyvan.jpg
Oct 10 23:13:43 <jasta> sfw?
Oct 10 23:13:46 <umdk1d3> yes
Oct 10 23:14:07 <jasta> lol, what?
Oct 10 23:15:15 <umdk1d3> open wifi networks can quickly lead to being v&  :P  not by anything you did, but by what others might do
Oct 10 23:15:27 <jasta> why would i care about that?
Oct 10 23:23:04 <jasta> i mean really?  so someone uses my network to do something "bad", how does that affect me?
Oct 10 23:24:28 <gdsx> jasta: I think the insinuation is that if someone commits a felony from your access point, the Feds will be knocking on your door
Oct 10 23:26:41 <jasta> so?
Oct 10 23:27:35 <jasta> it's like if someone commits murder in the alley behind my house
Oct 10 23:27:42 <jasta> i imagine the cops would also come knocking at my door
Oct 10 23:27:59 <jasta> am i guilty of murder?  no.  am i concerned of being found guilty of murder?  no.
Oct 10 23:28:51 <jasta> i am not liable for what folks do on my publicly provided internet access, just like my ISP is not liable, and just like starbucks is not liable, or hotels, ...
Oct 10 23:29:10 <jasta> that's a miserably stupid argument to use against providing limited Internet access to your neighbors
Oct 10 23:29:47 <jasta> if you really think that our law has crumbled so badly that unknowingly aiding criminals is a criminal offense then we have much bigger problems.
Oct 10 23:31:51 <snadge> damn straight
Oct 10 23:33:44 <lresende> I have this in my AndroidManifest.xml
Oct 10 23:33:46 <lresende>     <application android:label="@string/app_name">
Oct 10 23:34:35 <lresende> and I keep getting a strange error in eclipse : ERROR Error: No resource found that matches the given name (at 'label' with value '@string/app_name').
Oct 10 23:34:38 <lresende> any ideas ?
Oct 10 23:35:25 <romainguy_> did you define app_name in strings.xml?
Oct 10 23:44:58 <ttuttle> romainguy_: =D
Oct 11 00:19:14 <jasta> umdk1d3: you there?  for your music player did you just scale the album art to cover the whole window, ignoring aspect ratio?
Oct 11 00:32:37 <jasta> romainguy_: how do you specify a null drawable implicitly?  like in XML to unset the thumb drawable?
Oct 11 00:33:20 <romainguy_> @null
Oct 11 00:33:27 <romainguy_> or @android:color/transparent
Oct 11 00:34:51 <jasta> ahh, excellent
Oct 11 00:34:51 <jasta> thanks
Oct 11 00:35:56 <jasta> hmm, the progress_horizontal style uses gradient colors?
Oct 11 00:36:28 <jasta> how does that work?  it looks solid to me
Oct 11 00:42:16 <jasta> oh i get it.  the gray actually is a gradeitn pretty clearly
Oct 11 00:56:20 <umdk1d3> jasta: yep i scale to fit height, altho its all handled by view.setScaleType(ImageView.ScaleType.CENTER_CROP);
Oct 11 00:58:23 <jasta> that sucks tho, because you basically make every album look wrong
Oct 11 00:58:31 <jasta> you are clipping like 20-30% of the cover.
Oct 11 00:58:51 <jasta> that's clearly why the iPhone designers thought to use a reflection
Oct 11 00:58:57 <jasta> because the ratio is too weird
Oct 11 01:02:03 <umdk1d3> jasta: i was being artsey  ;)
Oct 11 01:06:03 <umdk1d3> wow you know its friday night wehn there are only 2 of my 300 friends active on facebook  lol
Oct 11 01:06:41 <taaz> hmm.  tunes remote not working for me.  entering 0000 code in itunes just clears the code and asks again.
Oct 11 01:06:59 <umdk1d3> taaz: using the python pairing server?
Oct 11 01:07:38 <taaz> umdk1d3: yeah
Oct 11 01:07:57 <umdk1d3> do you see itunes hitting the python server?  it should dump out an apache-like hit log on stdout
Oct 11 01:08:13 <umdk1d3> and the python server is running on the same box as avahi?
Oct 11 01:08:43 <umdk1d3> sometimes itunes doesnt like being paired multiple times.  restarting itunes might make it happy
Oct 11 01:08:54 <taaz> didn't see any log.  yes on same box.  restarting stuff now.
Oct 11 01:09:10 <umdk1d3> thats odd that your not seeing the hits in python
Oct 11 01:09:20 <umdk1d3> its using the same port defined in avahi conifg?
Oct 11 01:09:53 <taaz> i think so... give me a sec to check all this and retry
Oct 11 01:10:35 <umdk1d3> remember that none of the avahi/python stuff is needed if you have a real device
Oct 11 01:16:57 <taaz> still not working.  what ports does it need open on the emu box?
Oct 11 01:17:16 <umdk1d3> so this pairing side of the process doesnt need to use android yet
Oct 11 01:17:25 <umdk1d3> it should just be between itunes+avahi+python
Oct 11 01:17:37 <umdk1d3> to get the pre-known GUID into itunes internal list of approved devices
Oct 11 01:18:09 <umdk1d3> the only real "port" being used is 1024, which is what the python server tries listening on
Oct 11 01:18:22 <umdk1d3> that port is also defined in the avahi definition
Oct 11 01:18:44 <umdk1d3> after typing the 4-digit pin in itunes, it tries opening a http connection on that port to chat with the python server
Oct 11 01:19:13 <umdk1d3> since we arent seeing any access logs print out from the python script, it means that somehow itunes isnt connecting with it
Oct 11 01:19:20 <taaz> clearly :)
Oct 11 01:19:36 <taaz> itunes is saying verifying, then beeps, and clears the code
Oct 11 01:19:46 <umdk1d3> ideally avahi+python should be run on the same box
Oct 11 01:19:55 <taaz> i can telnet to the port on the emu box though.  which will log something.
Oct 11 01:20:22 <umdk1d3> avahi might be latching onto an earlier eth* entry?
Oct 11 01:20:28 <taaz> i guess i have to start dumping net traffic
Oct 11 01:20:37 <umdk1d3> yea wireshark is awesome  :)
Oct 11 01:21:03 <taaz> how do i know which iface avahi is using?
Oct 11 01:21:12 <umdk1d3> mmm not sure  :/
Oct 11 01:21:21 <umdk1d3> but you could tell by looking at the mdns packet dumps
Oct 11 01:21:27 <umdk1d3> to see what ip its reporting
Oct 11 01:22:04 <taaz> actually... nevermind.  i forgot this box only has one net connection now
Oct 11 01:23:52 <umdk1d3> was that the issue?  its working somewhat, especially if itunes was able to add the device to its menu
Oct 11 01:24:34 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: interestingly with your latest version, when I paired with iTunes, I entered a bogus PIN and it worked
Oct 11 01:24:41 <romainguy_> (maybe it's supposed to work that way :)
Oct 11 01:25:13 <umdk1d3> romainguy_: yep its supposta work   :P
Oct 11 01:25:18 <romainguy_> ok good :)
Oct 11 01:25:25 <umdk1d3> we dont know the md5 that itunes throws back at us
Oct 11 01:25:34 <umdk1d3> so we naievly accept all the time
Oct 11 01:33:39 <gdsx> taaz: avahi is supposed to broadcast on all interfaces, I think (unless you manually configure it not to)
Oct 11 01:35:28 <taaz> looks like itunes is just not sending out any data when i type in that code
Oct 11 01:35:41 <umdk1d3> it doesnt even try opening a connection anywhere?
Oct 11 01:35:55 <umdk1d3> what did the avahi packets have as the A record for its service?
Oct 11 01:35:57 <taaz> not if tcpdump is correct
Oct 11 01:42:11 <jasta> does anyone else notice that it takes much longer to deploy apks to the phone?
Oct 11 01:42:13 <jasta> its really slow now
Oct 11 01:42:36 <umdk1d3> jasta: even after reboot?
Oct 11 01:42:53 <umdk1d3> might turn on cpu usage bars in dev tools
Oct 11 01:44:05 * jasta is having a hell of a time figuring out why this shit won't center...
Oct 11 01:44:24 <jasta> oh wait, there we go
Oct 11 01:44:35 <jasta> i needed layout_width=fill_parent and gravity=center_horizontal.  this shit is still voodoo to me :)
Oct 11 01:44:57 <umdk1d3> for a textview?
Oct 11 01:45:08 <jasta> nah in this case it was nested linearlayouts and images
Oct 11 01:45:24 <umdk1d3> gravity applys to text in a textview, otherwise the gravity needs to be assigned in parent iirc
Oct 11 01:45:52 <romainguy_> no
Oct 11 01:45:59 <romainguy_> gravity in general applies to the content
Oct 11 01:46:10 <romainguy_> and layout_gravity is applied by the parent on the View itself
Oct 11 01:46:14 <jasta> i think the trick with gravity is that you have to give it something to center.  if you use wrap_content on the dimension you are wanting to center within it won't do what you think
Oct 11 01:46:17 <umdk1d3> right, so if you wanted your button to be centered, you would set the gravtiy in the parent
Oct 11 01:46:34 <umdk1d3> ohhhhh layout_gravity
Oct 11 01:46:36 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: no, you could use layout_gravity :)
Oct 11 01:46:39 <romainguy_> *but*
Oct 11 01:46:45 <romainguy_> in LinearLayout it depends on the orientation
Oct 11 01:47:02 <romainguy_> for instance, in a horizontal layout, gravity can only be left/right/center_horizontal
Oct 11 01:47:12 <umdk1d3> ahh ic
Oct 11 01:47:15 <romainguy_> and layout_gravity can only be top/bottom/center_vertical
Oct 11 01:47:21 <romainguy_> and it's the opposite with vertical linear layouts
Oct 11 01:48:38 <umdk1d3> romainguy_: is there a decending list of which layoutgroups are least expensive?  similar to http://www.flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/2533874713/
Oct 11 01:49:05 <romainguy_> it depends :)
Oct 11 01:49:15 <romainguy_> basically the lest expensive always is FrameLayout
Oct 11 01:49:24 <romainguy_> RelativeLayout can be cheap or expensive
Oct 11 01:49:37 <romainguy_> LinearLayout is cheap when vertical with no use of layout_weight
Oct 11 01:49:44 <romainguy_> a little bit expensive when you use weight
Oct 11 01:49:53 <romainguy_> kinda cheap in horizontal and no weight
Oct 11 01:49:59 <umdk1d3> for example, is it better to use weight on a linearlayout versus relativelayout layoutparentBottom?
Oct 11 01:50:03 <romainguy_> and more expensive with weight and horizontal
Oct 11 01:50:07 <romainguy_> anyway
Oct 11 01:50:14 <romainguy_> really the difference are way too small to matter
Oct 11 01:50:19 <umdk1d3> ah okay
Oct 11 01:50:30 <romainguy_> what's costly is weight because it requires several measure passes
Oct 11 01:50:39 <romainguy_> that's why we like the 0dip trick
Oct 11 01:50:41 <umdk1d3> the biggest thing is reducing the levels of the view tree, right?
Oct 11 01:50:43 <romainguy_> because it avoids some extra work
Oct 11 01:50:45 <romainguy_> yes
Oct 11 01:50:48 <romainguy_> that matters a lot
Oct 11 01:50:53 <romainguy_> it reduces inflation time
Oct 11 01:50:59 <romainguy_> and greatly improves drawing/layout times
Oct 11 01:51:04 <umdk1d3> and traversal time for findViewById?
Oct 11 01:51:08 <romainguy_> yes
Oct 11 01:51:13 <romainguy_> although that's not too bad
Oct 11 01:51:19 <romainguy_> the hierarchy has to do a lot of bookkeeping in draw/layout
Oct 11 01:51:28 <romainguy_> so each extra level is (relatively) painful
Oct 11 01:51:29 <umdk1d3> ah ic
Oct 11 01:51:46 <romainguy_> it also reduces memory :)
Oct 11 01:52:05 <dmoffett> romainguy: 0dip trick?
Oct 11 01:52:12 <romainguy_> and you have less risks to trigger stack overflows :)
Oct 11 01:52:23 <romainguy_> dmoffett: width=0dip weight=1
Oct 11 01:52:31 <dmoffett> Ok thanks.
Oct 11 01:52:31 <romainguy_> (1 or anything else for that matter)
Oct 11 01:52:34 <dmoffett> I will study that.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 11 02:59:57 2008