**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 02:59:57 2008
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 03:14:00 2008

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 03:14:13 2008
Oct 12 04:49:34 <Yurmomma> anyone here know a good place to download android apps? ive found http://helloandroid.com and http://android-dls.com but i cant believe that is the only 2 there are
Oct 12 04:50:29 <Yurmomma> ok..
Oct 12 04:51:15 <cbeust> The Android Market will be available when the device ships...
Oct 12 05:26:20 <muthu> life is short
Oct 12 05:26:33 <cbeust> ... and then you die?
Oct 12 05:26:48 <muthu> yeah, and it comes just like that
Oct 12 05:27:27 <muthu> puts things in perspective though
Oct 12 05:41:30 <plusminus_> wohoooo first part of AndNav is running on OpenStreetMaps.
Oct 12 05:41:56 <plusminus_> only 2 hours of replacing old maps stuff :)
Oct 12 05:42:48 <plusminus_> *DANCE*
Oct 12 05:44:02 <plusminus_> I eat my ass if I completely make it before G1 launches :) (need to seperate routing also :( )
Oct 12 05:44:06 <plusminus_> cya all
Oct 12 05:44:08 <plusminus_> *DANCE*
Oct 12 05:44:33 <gambler> Germans sure have a way with words
Oct 12 05:44:49 <cbeust> I chuckled too
Oct 12 05:45:14 <gambler> I like the emoticon w/ the extra big mouth best
Oct 12 05:46:35 <jota-> I think that's a sad mouth inside parenthesis
Oct 12 06:03:02 <umdk1d3> anybody played much with streaming video into mediaplayer?
Oct 12 06:25:22 <romainguy> umdk1d3: the cooking capsule guys
Oct 12 06:26:20 <umdk1d3> it sounds like rtsp 3gp might work
Oct 12 06:34:55 <umdk1d3> grr it doesnt like amr wideband
Oct 12 07:25:18 <jasta> hmmm
Oct 12 07:25:25 <umdk1d3> mmmh?
Oct 12 07:25:31 <jasta> how do you "unstop" self?
Oct 12 07:27:29 <davidw> jasta, laxatives?
Oct 12 07:27:35 <umdk1d3> =O
Oct 12 07:50:03 <f00f-> umdk1d3: i've seen hopstop before, but they are seriously lacking in coverage. we have 100+ agencies in the sf bay area alone covered =)
Oct 12 07:50:27 <umdk1d3> ah cool, i kinda figured you had more data
Oct 12 07:50:51 <f00f-> if only google would open up their api for transit directions :)
Oct 12 07:50:55 <f00f-> although we'd probably be obsolete then :P
Oct 12 07:51:19 <umdk1d3> i dont see how
Oct 12 07:51:29 <umdk1d3> they might open the api before they can write an android app
Oct 12 07:59:44 <romainguy> it's probably licensed data :)
Oct 12 08:00:20 <f00f-> technically it's free data, but government is clueless
Oct 12 08:00:23 <f00f-> http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/10/12/1-5-million-t-mobile-g1s-already-pre-ordered/
Oct 12 08:00:27 <f00f-> interesting
Oct 12 08:00:31 <umdk1d3> umm yea right
Oct 12 08:00:34 <umdk1d3> @ 1.5mil
Oct 12 08:00:43 <f00f-> 1.5 million - 50 = ~ 1.5 million
Oct 12 08:01:03 <umdk1d3> lol  :P
Oct 12 08:01:12 <f00f-> sorry, but i'm still a bit sore :)
Oct 12 08:01:30 <umdk1d3> i saw that 1.5mil number somehwer else online, and they had an inaccurate source
Oct 12 08:01:42 <umdk1d3> im suprised to see engadget take it up, maybe they found something more solid
Oct 12 08:01:47 <f00f-> yeah i'm having trouble believing 1.5 mil
Oct 12 08:02:09 <f00f-> average consumer hasn't even heard of android
Oct 12 08:02:25 <f00f-> you mean 1.5 million in-the-know tech geeks are in on it
Oct 12 08:02:32 <umdk1d3> hmm this seems like a legit source tho:   http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2008/10/09/google-were-fresh-out-of-androids.aspx
Oct 12 08:02:38 <umdk1d3> following the trail back
Oct 12 08:03:19 <umdk1d3> hmm maybe it isnt so far fetched
Oct 12 08:03:29 <umdk1d3> iphone sold 1mil in first 3 days
Oct 12 08:04:21 <romainguy> the original story is fuzzy
Oct 12 08:04:31 <f00f-> but that's after a big announcement
Oct 12 08:04:41 <romainguy> they never say the number of original pre-orders
Oct 12 08:05:11 <umdk1d3> i seriously doubt that tmobile had 1.5 million people on month 11/12 or 22/24
Oct 12 08:05:38 <romainguy> http://jext.free.fr/The%20Photographer.jpg << a photo of my friend I took during our road trip
Oct 12 08:05:53 <umdk1d3> "28 million[9] customers"
Oct 12 08:05:59 <umdk1d3> from wikipedia, in USA
Oct 12 08:06:17 <umdk1d3> and assuming that they are 50% distributed between 1 and 2 yr contracts
Oct 12 08:06:25 <umdk1d3> and uniform distribution
Oct 12 08:06:29 <f00f-> i love it romain, where is this?
Oct 12 08:06:38 <f00f-> umdk1d3: i wonder how they *advertised* to their existing customers
Oct 12 08:06:48 <romainguy> f00f-: in Page, Arizona
Oct 12 08:07:03 <umdk1d3> there are approximately 2.3mil tmobile customers eligible for this
Oct 12 08:07:38 <umdk1d3> so i guess it kinda is possible
Oct 12 09:17:48 <rabelais> is the G1's microsd card an sdio slot?
Oct 12 10:15:10 <kunthecronos> bye
Oct 12 16:04:00 <ttuttle> romainguy: ping
Oct 12 17:39:18 <jasta> zhobbs: you tehre?
Oct 12 17:40:48 <jasta> i'm curious how you stop your player service...
Oct 12 17:41:11 <jasta> the only way i can think of to do this is to count calls to onBind and onUnbind and stopSelf() when in onUnbind the count reaches 0.
Oct 12 17:41:20 <jasta> (if the music playback is off)
Oct 12 17:41:31 <jasta> then, when the music stops, if the count is 0, also stopSelf
Oct 12 17:41:42 <jasta> but that sure does seem clumsy
Oct 12 17:45:54 <jasta> oh, onUnbind seems to be that referencing counting already...
Oct 12 17:50:06 <jasta> it looks like you'll have to do some onUnbind/onRebind ticking...
Oct 12 19:07:32 <PocketBrain> heated discussion, or 110 lurkers?
Oct 12 19:08:43 <zhobbs> jasta: hmm, actually don't stopSelf() in the service...need to do that though
Oct 12 19:11:16 <jasta> yeah i just went to implement it and realized that its a bit clumsy...
Oct 12 19:11:37 <zhobbs> yeah, we need an isBinded() or something
Oct 12 19:12:01 <zhobbs> is there anyway to check if there's still a reference to your IBinder?
Oct 12 19:12:03 <jasta> i'm just tracking it between onUnbind and onRebind
Oct 12 19:12:13 <jasta> onUnbind is apparently called whne all references are gone
Oct 12 19:12:23 <zhobbs> ohh, ok
Oct 12 19:12:29 <jasta> and onRebind is called after onUnbind (but not onBind?  it's weird.)
Oct 12 19:12:33 <zhobbs> that makes it easy
Oct 12 19:14:23 <jasta> also, for some reason, calling MediaPlayer#reset or release causes a lockup
Oct 12 19:15:24 <jasta> err oh wait no, i remember this problem
Oct 12 19:15:45 <jasta> calling reset or release before setDataSoruce/prepare will cause it to wait idnefinitely
Oct 12 19:15:53 <jasta> piece of crap ;)
Oct 12 20:56:14 <plusminus_> anyone bought a G1 from ebay?
Oct 12 20:58:51 <ttuttle> plusminus_: You can buy them?
Oct 12 20:59:57 <jasta> you can preorder them that way
Oct 12 21:00:07 <jasta> people are just reselling their preorders
Oct 12 21:00:12 <ttuttle> jasta: Ah.
Oct 12 21:02:53 <swetland> that seems pretty silly
Oct 12 21:06:03 <jasta> well, in this case it does, but they are trying to capitalize on the device if it becomes so popular no one can find one to buy
Oct 12 21:06:14 <jasta> then people will be willing to pay way more money to get it from some guy on ebay
Oct 12 21:06:17 <jasta> jsut like the wii
Oct 12 21:06:31 <jasta> if not, then oh well :)
Oct 12 21:07:28 <swetland> oh it makes plenty of sense for the seller
Oct 12 21:07:39 <ttuttle> swetland: oh hey!
Oct 12 21:08:00 <swetland> yo
Oct 12 21:09:05 <jasta> lol
Oct 12 21:09:09 <jasta> oh MediaPlayer class
Oct 12 21:09:11 <jasta> how i loathe you
Oct 12 21:09:33 <jasta> (new MediaPlayer()).release() or reset() will deadlock it :)
Oct 12 21:12:33 <ttuttle> jasta: ...so don't do that?
Oct 12 21:12:41 <plusminus_> I'll buy one on ebay, as it doesn't seem like I'll get a review one =/
Oct 12 21:12:53 <ttuttle> plusminus_: What would you be reviewing it for?
Oct 12 21:13:01 <jasta> ttuttle: you mean don't initialize it in onCreate and destroy it in onDestroy?
Oct 12 21:13:05 <plusminus_> from the dev side
Oct 12 21:13:17 <plusminus_> how various apps perform
Oct 12 21:13:18 <ttuttle> jasta: Ah.
Oct 12 21:13:33 <jasta> if the user odesn't make use of it, it shoudln't crash.  no class should be design this stupid
Oct 12 21:13:40 <ttuttle> plusminus_: I mean for what site/periodical/etc... would you be reviewing it?
Oct 12 21:13:48 <swetland> I suspect there will not be some horrible shortage of devices at launch
Oct 12 21:13:49 <plusminus_> anddev.org
Oct 12 21:13:54 <ttuttle> plusminus_: Ah.
Oct 12 21:14:00 <ttuttle> swetland: That's too bad.
Oct 12 21:14:09 <ttuttle> swetland: Engadget thinks there are already 1.5M devices pre-ordered.
Oct 12 21:14:32 <plusminus_> I relied on getting one and I relied wrong (at least it feels so)
Oct 12 21:15:10 <plusminus_> and the not preordered ones will be out later (~2-3 weeks if I remember right=
Oct 12 21:15:11 <plusminus_> )
Oct 12 21:19:08 <jasta> ttuttle: also there's this cute bug i found yesterday where if you call setDataSource before start (prepareAsync, then the user cancels this playback before buffering finishes), setDataSoruce will throw IllegalStateExcpetion.
Oct 12 21:19:17 <jasta> the work-around is to just ignroe the thrown exception and call setDataSource again.
Oct 12 21:19:22 <jasta> what a pathetic piece of crap
Oct 12 21:19:40 <plusminus_> workarounds are great
Oct 12 21:19:57 <jasta> i have a now pretty bloated class which encapsulates all the MediaPlayer's broken beahviour
Oct 12 21:22:27 <jasta> i think i currently have 6 open bugs about the mediaplayer.  3 of which are critical.
Oct 12 21:22:57 <jasta> oh yeah, excellent work not supporting Ogg vorbis streaming.  i don't even know how that's possible, considering how the libvorbis library works
Oct 12 21:23:12 <plusminus_> ^^
Oct 12 21:24:38 <swetland> I'm sure they did it specifically to annoy you
Oct 12 21:25:37 <jasta> that seems to be a pretty popular quip to excuse google's lack of QA.
Oct 12 21:25:51 <swetland> it is true. we have no QA at all.
Oct 12 21:26:01 <jasta> or i suppose, QA supervision, as this is almost certainly PacketVideo's fault
Oct 12 21:26:10 <jasta> actually, that's also a popular quip in response.
Oct 12 21:27:10 <jasta> but the reality is, nobody has gave a damn about the MediaPlayer, and it is part of the official 1.0 API, so to me that says there was a QA problem.
Oct 12 21:30:02 <jasta> but thankful so far i've been able to work around every bug except 2.  it's just unfortunate that those 2 bugs affect the usability of my program.
Oct 12 21:31:11 <jasta> (no listener to observe buffer fill percentage, and a broken estimation of frame locations within a stream, even for constnat bitrate mp3s)
Oct 12 21:31:16 <plusminus_> when do you plan to test it on a real device?
Oct 12 21:31:27 <jasta> hopefully on the 22nd, when i wait my ass in line to get one
Oct 12 21:31:29 <jasta> i'm so excited hehe
Oct 12 21:31:44 <jasta> although technically, i've been testing on a device for a little while now
Oct 12 21:31:48 <jasta> i just don't personally own it
Oct 12 21:31:53 <plusminus_> there will be sold some on 22nd ?
Oct 12 21:32:04 <jasta> that's my understanding
Oct 12 21:32:10 <plusminus_> some preorders were delayed after that date :/
Oct 12 21:32:13 <jasta> the pre-orders aren't the only patch they made
Oct 12 21:32:19 <jasta> they made the lion's share to go to retailers
Oct 12 21:32:32 <jasta> and those will be available on the 22nd.  again, that's my understanding.
Oct 12 21:32:48 <plusminus_> so why preordering one if one can buy it (ok there is a small chance of getting none in the shops)
Oct 12 21:33:26 <jasta> mainly because buying it in person is probably going to be sucky.  they will run out and some stores won't have it, etc.
Oct 12 21:33:39 <jasta> so preordering would just be more convenient, but only a certain group could preorder
Oct 12 21:33:53 <plusminus_> yeah right...
Oct 12 21:34:02 <jasta> plusminus_: only those that have t-mobile accounts for quite a long time could pre-order.  it would not make sense for them to only cater to that group, since the make the least revenue from them
Oct 12 21:34:21 <jasta> they make*
Oct 12 21:34:55 <plusminus_> yeah right
Oct 12 21:35:41 <jasta> i'm just gonna show up early on the 22nd and try to snag one.  possibly even go a couple hours before the store opens just to make sure there's no line or anything silly like that
Oct 12 21:35:54 <plusminus_> its just the fear that might make me buy one ^^
Oct 12 21:36:04 <plusminus_> I need to visit the local store...
Oct 12 21:36:05 <jasta> what fear?
Oct 12 21:36:10 <plusminus_> to ask if they'll have one
Oct 12 21:36:38 <plusminus_> getting none and having to wait for apps-on-the-device-tests for another week or two
Oct 12 21:38:25 <jasta> oh yeah that would be lame
Oct 12 21:38:36 <jasta> *sigh*
Oct 12 21:38:52 <jasta> i seriously can't believe the bugs that remain in this thing
Oct 12 21:39:10 <jasta> my process just seg faulted
Oct 12 21:39:20 <ttuttle> jasta: What are you doing?
Oct 12 21:39:29 <plusminus_> ^^ after working with the MediaPlayer for so long you are probably the most experienced person with it ^^
Oct 12 21:39:53 <jasta> i am experienced with it enough to know that it is without a doubt the buggiest piece of production quality code i have ever used.
Oct 12 21:41:14 <jasta> E/dalvikvm(  925): HeapWorker is wedged: 231418ms spent inside Lorg/devtcg/five/music/util/streaming/StreamMediaPlayer;.finalize()V
Oct 12 21:41:17 <jasta> hmm
Oct 12 21:41:20 <jasta> then it segfaulted
Oct 12 21:41:36 <ttuttle> jasta: Sounds like a bug.
Oct 12 21:41:41 <jasta> you don't say
Oct 12 21:42:50 <jasta> let's see if i can reproduce this
Oct 12 21:45:49 <jasta> nope, not reproducible...
Oct 12 21:48:05 <plusminus_> anyone with Eclipse 3.4 (Ganymede) and Geo-Stuff not working.
Oct 12 21:48:22 <plusminus_> I can't pass a single Geo_pos
Oct 12 21:48:25 <plusminus_> :(
Oct 12 21:48:55 <ttuttle> Hey, has anyone written a PDF viewer for Android?
Oct 12 21:50:08 <plusminus_> I think one can view pdfs (maybe not in the emulator)
Oct 12 21:51:44 * ttuttle tries.
Oct 12 21:52:32 <plusminus_> ttuttle: http://www.anddev.org/live_-_hot_g1_infos_from_t-mobile_announcement-t2907.html
Oct 12 21:52:39 <plusminus_> search for 'pdf'
Oct 12 21:53:10 <ttuttle> "Cannot download. The content being downloaded is not supported on the phone."
Oct 12 21:53:33 <plusminus_> ttuttle: G1 or emulator ?
Oct 12 21:53:48 <ttuttle> plusminus_: G1
Oct 12 21:53:56 <plusminus_> *grrrr*
Oct 12 21:54:02 <plusminus_> strange ... :/
Oct 12 21:54:06 <ttuttle> Yeah.
Oct 12 21:54:14 <ttuttle> Of course, it's not ship day yet.
Oct 12 21:54:28 <plusminus_> we'll see
Oct 12 21:54:31 <ttuttle> Yeah.
Oct 12 21:54:38 * ttuttle assumes they will make good on that by or soon after ship.
Oct 12 21:54:44 <ttuttle> I mean, I have no reason to think they won't.
Oct 12 22:00:21 <plusminus_> 1.5 million G1 pre-orders estimated o_O
Oct 12 22:00:35 <plusminus_> -->1.5 million customers
Oct 12 22:01:17 <jasta> i dont think thats a real figure
Oct 12 22:05:17 <plusminus_> estimated
Oct 12 22:07:23 <jasta> i mean, i think its complete nonsense :)
Oct 12 22:14:39 <jasta> man i like google's issue list.
Oct 12 22:14:42 <jasta> it's nice a tidy
Oct 12 22:14:45 <jasta> google code i mean
Oct 12 22:33:32 <mohbana_> is there a standard headphone jack in the g1
Oct 12 22:36:32 <plusminus_> mohbana_: no
Oct 12 22:37:13 <mohbana_> how stupid
Oct 12 22:42:33 <jasta> no argument here
Oct 12 22:42:41 <jasta> worse still, no stereo bluetooth :(
Oct 12 22:49:00 <plusminus_> anyone got a snippet on how to directly invoke the menu (to be specific one of its submenus)
Oct 12 22:54:35 <plusminus_> this.getWindow().openPanel(Window.FEATURE_OPTIONS_PANEL, new KeyEvent(KeyEvent.ACTION_DOWN, KeyEvent.KEYCODE_MENU));
Oct 12 22:56:59 <plusminus_> I do not want to inject a KeyEvent :(
Oct 12 23:00:47 <jasta> sorry dude, i dont know :)
Oct 12 23:00:57 <jasta> why would you want to trigger the menu up anyway?
Oct 12 23:05:19 <plusminus_> because I do not want to duplicate code (I have the same functionality from a ui button and from the menu)
Oct 12 23:05:52 <jasta> why would you need to duplicate code?  just generalize it into a function that could be invoked any number of ways by the user
Oct 12 23:06:00 <plusminus_> I could kinda paste the code to a SubActivity
Oct 12 23:06:14 <plusminus_> the logic is generalized
Oct 12 23:06:33 <plusminus_> I would just need to create a listActivity with the same entries than in the SubMenu
Oct 12 23:06:41 <jasta> oh i see
Oct 12 23:22:29 <ttuttle> greetings (again)
Oct 12 23:27:52 <BBHoss> hi all, when the source is released what does that mean for us?
Oct 12 23:28:28 <BBHoss> can we compile our own firmware and flash it?
Oct 12 23:33:18 <summatusmentis> I'm not sure anyone knows that yet BBHoss
Oct 12 23:34:43 <plusminus_> anyone is familiar with t-mobiles phone plans ?
Oct 12 23:34:59 <plusminus_> do they always have a 2-year contract?
Oct 12 23:35:36 <ttuttle> plusminus_: No.
Oct 12 23:35:42 <ttuttle> plusminus_: They can have 1-year contracts too.
Oct 12 23:35:50 <ttuttle> plusminus_: But I think you pay more for the phone.
Oct 12 23:36:12 <ttuttle> plusminus_: (I know this because they allow you to preorder a G1 if you've got 1 month left on a 12-month contract, or 2 months left on a 24-month contract.)
Oct 12 23:36:12 <plusminus_> i'm asking because I'm only for 5 more months in the US
Oct 12 23:36:23 <ttuttle> plusminus_: ah
Oct 12 23:36:35 <plusminus_> so I'd need a maximum of 6 months contract :/
Oct 12 23:37:04 <plusminus_> plus T-Mobile is the only  carrier I can go to because they seem to 'lock' it for 90 days
Oct 12 23:43:10 <plusminus_> http://androidcommunity.com/t-mobile-releasing-month-to-month-payment-option-20081007/
Oct 12 23:43:26 <plusminus_> what is that "month to month payment option" ?
Oct 12 23:43:40 <plusminus_> does that mean the 'contract' is always just 1 month long?
Oct 12 23:46:01 <ttuttle> plusminus_: Dunno.
Oct 12 23:47:42 <f00f-> uhh
Oct 12 23:47:44 <f00f-> that article seems wrong
Oct 12 23:47:50 <plusminus_> ?
Oct 12 23:47:51 <f00f-> postpaid is what contracts are
Oct 12 23:48:14 <f00f-> prepaid is what month-to-month really is unless it's a sequence of 1-month postpaid contracts
Oct 12 23:49:03 <f00f-> they really need to come out with a prepaid offer
Oct 12 23:49:22 <plusminus_> its like FlexPay?
Oct 12 23:49:46 <plusminus_> I'd need that when I buy a contract free G1
Oct 12 23:50:18 <plusminus_> (because a 2y contract is to long, as I' staying only 5 more months)
Oct 12 23:50:47 <plusminus_> So I'm wondering if the cheapest, is to buy a G1 with contract on Oct 22nd and buy out after 5 months :/
Oct 12 23:51:04 <plusminus_> or to buy an unlocked one and get that flexpay thing ...
Oct 13 00:00:36 * ttuttle is happy.
Oct 13 00:00:49 <ttuttle> My parents pay my phone bill, and I got my G1 from Google ;-)
Oct 13 00:00:54 <ttuttle> (/me is in college.)
Oct 13 00:03:45 <unix_infidel> ttuttle: you mean you preordered.
Oct 13 00:03:51 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: No.
Oct 13 00:04:02 <unix_infidel> lol, then...?
Oct 13 00:04:20 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: They sent me one.  (I worked for them over the summer, so I got one to test before they ship.)
Oct 13 00:04:25 <unix_infidel> cool!
Oct 13 00:04:28 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: Yeah, it's nice.
Oct 13 00:04:39 <unix_infidel> only 10 more days till general release :-)
Oct 13 00:04:43 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: Wow, that little?
Oct 13 00:04:45 * jasta can't figure out how hte hell he made this reflection effect work
Oct 13 00:04:46 <ttuttle> Yeah, you're right.
Oct 13 00:04:52 <jasta> i have my code right in front of me, and i can't figure out what it does ;)
Oct 13 00:05:13 <ttuttle> jasta: Does it work?
Oct 13 00:05:14 <jasta> i am rewriting it (because it's terribly inefficient and broken), but i can't get canvas.scale(1, -1) to flip the image anymore
Oct 13 00:05:18 <ttuttle> jasta: Oh.
Oct 13 00:05:25 <jasta> ttuttle: yeah, but seemingly by pure luck
Oct 13 00:06:05 <jasta> oh wait, i might have an idea...
Oct 13 00:06:25 <jasta> i need to actually offset the clipped rect to the bottom portion of the image after i scale
Oct 13 00:06:46 <jasta> because i think what i'm doing now is clipping a part that is not going to be shown after the flip, then flipping it so it becomes invisible
Oct 13 00:07:52 <jasta> well, maybe not.  *stumped*
Oct 13 00:09:40 <jasta> just doing scale(1, -1); drawBitmap(bmp, null, rect, paint); draws nothing
Oct 13 00:09:43 <jasta> taking scale out, draws the bitmap
Oct 13 00:11:10 * jasta studies his old code
Oct 13 00:11:41 <plusminus_> did you think of that it might draw it offscreen?
Oct 13 00:11:51 <plusminus_> maybe you also have to translate it
Oct 13 00:12:07 <jasta> oh yeah, that is what's going on i think
Oct 13 00:12:10 <jasta> i translate twice as far as necessary
Oct 13 00:12:22 <plusminus_> :)
Oct 13 00:12:45 <jasta> thank you, that owrked :)
Oct 13 00:12:56 <plusminus_> you're welcome :)
Oct 13 00:13:30 * plusminus_ pushed Five to be released 5 minutes earlier *WOHOO*
Oct 13 00:14:29 <donomo> whats the current best-practice way to do testing for an android app? android.test? p-unit?
Oct 13 00:17:35 <duey> assume there are no bugs
Oct 13 00:20:00 <jasta> donomo: i use android.test, though i wouldn't necessarily call it best practices
Oct 13 00:20:16 <jasta> honestly, android is so new and "beta" that there's a lot of gray area in how to do proper development cycles
Oct 13 00:24:45 <duey> has adc2 been announced?
Oct 13 00:27:41 <jasta> no, Q4 they say
Oct 13 00:40:55 <jasta> grr, stupid BitmapShader doesn't stretch
Oct 13 00:52:02 <gdsx> jasta, donomo: most of the actual android apps use junit, I believe
Oct 13 00:52:17 <gdsx> certainly all the ones I've looked at
Oct 13 00:52:24 <gdsx> (which isn't all of them :o)
Oct 13 00:55:23 <jasta> android.test is an extension of junit to allow you to instrument android components as well
Oct 13 00:59:00 <romainguy> jasta: just doing scale(1, -1); drawBitmap(bmp, null, rect, paint); draws nothing << you have to translate
Oct 13 00:59:37 <jasta> yeah, i got it
Oct 13 01:00:39 <jasta> so, the order of canvas operations matters, right?  as in, if i scale it by a particular factor now suddenly all the units i specify for things like clipRect/translate will be affected by that factor?  but prior to scale, they would not have been?
Oct 13 01:00:45 <romainguy> er yes it does
Oct 13 01:01:23 <romainguy> otherwise that would make operations like scale and rotation either almost useless or damn annoying to use :)
Oct 13 01:01:32 <jasta> right, of course
Oct 13 01:01:38 <romainguy> that's also why you usually do save()/restore() around these operations
Oct 13 01:02:22 <umdk1d3> wait wtf @ google sending last years interns devices!?!
Oct 13 01:02:47 <umdk1d3> ttuttle that is
Oct 13 01:04:50 <romainguy> to shut him up
Oct 13 01:05:19 <jasta> actually, google sent a LOT of people devices that probably didnt deserve them
Oct 13 01:06:13 <jasta> especially when there is this so-called "shortage"
Oct 13 01:06:43 <romainguy> there is a shortage
Oct 13 01:07:00 <romainguy> many people in the team still don't have the latest rev of the hardware :))
Oct 13 01:07:18 <jasta> yes, but it's hard to call it a shortage when people who have no entitlement to the devices are getting them
Oct 13 01:07:33 <romainguy> it depends how you define the entitlement
Oct 13 01:07:53 <jasta> not really, there are googlers who aren't working on android who have them
Oct 13 01:08:04 <romainguy> yes, so?
Oct 13 01:08:06 <gdsx> jasta: that's part of the point
Oct 13 01:08:07 <jasta> who aren't even anything to do with android
Oct 13 01:08:08 <unix_infidel> meh, i avoided buying an iphone 3g because I knew they couldnt ramp up production and do decent QA and I was right.
Oct 13 01:08:20 <unix_infidel> i'm hoping HTC doesnt make the same mistake with the G1
Oct 13 01:08:30 <romainguy> jasta: it's called testing...
Oct 13 01:08:52 <romainguy> unix_infidel: that's why we don't have the latest devices on the team, because we send many devices for testing to users
Oct 13 01:09:17 <romainguy> which is much more important than us having the latest rev
Oct 13 01:09:18 <jasta> well that's a fair argument at least
Oct 13 01:09:19 <taaz> let us define entitlement as anyone who has read #android for at least a few weeks :)
Oct 13 01:09:30 <jasta> still it's hard to justify why ttuttle has one :)
Oct 13 01:09:38 <unix_infidel> romainguy: oh, i have no problem with people with a not so great case of entitlement getting a G1
Oct 13 01:10:07 <jasta> romainguy: i wonder how you guys picked testers anyway.  because i know quite a few googlers asking themselves "why the hell did i get one?"
Oct 13 01:10:09 <unix_infidel> there are just so many things that can go wrong when you're trying to push a platform and you get unusually bad press because of things you cant control.
Oct 13 01:10:48 <taaz> i'm guessing i'm screwed as far as getting a device anytime soon.  i'm 6h from closest t-mobile 3G area and 2g from closest real t-mobile store.
Oct 13 01:11:02 <taaz> s/2g/2h/
Oct 13 01:11:03 <infobot> taaz meant: i'm guessing i'm screwed as far as getting a device anytime soon.  i'm 6h from closest t-mobile 3G area and 2h from closest real t-mobile store.
Oct 13 01:11:06 <unix_infidel> which makes the things apple did, in hindsight....
Oct 13 01:11:16 <gdsx> that bot is incredibly annoying
Oct 13 01:12:32 <snadge> its okay.. the usa is the only backwards nation that doesnt have proper 3g coverage yet ;)
Oct 13 01:12:33 <taaz> and i'm guessing real stores will get devices before places like walmart.  they only carry a few devices and say they don't know when they will get new ones until the day they show up.
Oct 13 01:12:49 <snadge> the real question is when more advanced cultures such as europe and australia get these devices ;)
Oct 13 01:13:04 <unix_infidel> heh, or if they end up with better ones.
Oct 13 01:13:26 <snadge> google should have targeted everywhere except the usa first
Oct 13 01:13:28 <unix_infidel> and how soon after late october....a question which drives me mad.
Oct 13 01:13:30 <taaz> but hey, i'm not sad.  i've got a fine emulator to keep me happy.
Oct 13 01:13:33 <snadge> thats the mistake they made ;)
Oct 13 01:45:04 <jasta> yay, got my reflectionlayout working much nicer :)
Oct 13 01:45:14 <jasta> way cleaner code hehe
Oct 13 01:45:57 <wastrel> reflection code
Oct 13 01:46:00 <wastrel> er. layout
Oct 13 01:46:05 <wastrel> hi jasta
Oct 13 01:46:11 <wastrel> your project is open source?
Oct 13 01:46:19 <jasta> yes
Oct 13 01:47:07 <jasta> havent committed this code just yet tho :)
Oct 13 01:47:12 <jasta> gotta run to dinner, then finish it up
Oct 13 02:40:15 <michaelnovakjr> yawn... jasta around?
Oct 13 02:44:24 <donomo> whats the correct command line to install a package on a second running emulator? ./adb devices lists 'emulator-5554' and 'emulator-5556', but this command fails: ./adb install -r -s emulator-5556 my_app.apk (error: more than one device and emulator)
Oct 13 02:55:00 <romainguy> try adding -e
Oct 13 02:58:08 <donomo> ok i'll try once i get home (leaving the cafe now). thx
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 13 02:59:57 2008