**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 13 02:59:57 2008
Oct 13 03:17:39 <muthu_> don't believe this
Oct 13 03:17:53 <muthu_> HTC[High Tech Computer] the taiwan based mobile phone handset maker has
Oct 13 03:17:54 <muthu_> announced that its going to launch the Android based mobile phones in
Oct 13 03:17:56 <muthu_> India by this December, also at almost same pricing which would be
Oct 13 03:17:57 <muthu_> around Rs8200 while these google phones are sold at 179$.
Oct 13 03:18:24 <gdsx> muthu_: how much is Rs8200?
Oct 13 03:18:28 <muthu_> Rs. 8200 is unbeelievable
Oct 13 03:18:40 <muthu_> its the same dollars - 179
Oct 13 03:18:41 <gdsx> in which direction? :o)
Oct 13 03:18:51 <gdsx> aah, cool
Oct 13 03:18:59 <muthu_> if G1 launches for anything less than 10k in India
Oct 13 03:18:59 <gdsx> source?
Oct 13 03:19:04 <muthu_> it will be BIG
Oct 13 03:19:40 <muthu_> http://www.amitbhawani.com/blog/google-android-phone-india/
Oct 13 03:24:14 <plusminus_> muthu_: what about 3g coverage in india ?
Oct 13 03:24:31 <muthu_> not yet.. coming next year
Oct 13 03:24:58 <muthu_> will be in 2g for now
Oct 13 03:25:41 <plusminus_> germany is damn well covered with 3g :)
Oct 13 03:25:54 <plusminus_> my homeplace is right at the edge :D
Oct 13 03:26:29 <plusminus_> but I still don't know how I'll handle it here in the US :(
Oct 13 03:27:43 <wastrel> i am getting a googlephone
Oct 13 03:31:09 <snadge> what? so india gets the G1
Oct 13 03:31:12 <snadge> but not australia?
Oct 13 03:31:24 <snadge> :P
Oct 13 03:33:09 <plusminus_> wastrel: preorder?
Oct 13 03:33:39 <wastrel> plusminus_: no, don't you have to be a current t-mo customer for that?
Oct 13 03:34:15 <plusminus_> yeah, so you'll be out on 22nd ?
Oct 13 03:35:18 <wastrel> i'll get one whenever they're generally available :]
Oct 13 03:36:38 <snadge> im surprised google even has a search engine presence in australia
Oct 13 03:36:52 <snadge> we're not important enough for android ;)
Oct 13 03:36:54 <plusminus_> ?
Oct 13 03:36:57 <snadge> apparently
Oct 13 03:37:10 <plusminus_> :-D its up to the carriers, manufacturers
Oct 13 03:37:23 <snadge> none of the telcos here are saying anything except "yes.. we know what android is.. but we have no idea, we're clueless"
Oct 13 03:37:34 <snadge> wtf kind of response is that
Oct 13 03:37:46 <muthu_> whoever has 3G will get it soon
Oct 13 03:38:05 <snadge> yes . but someone needs to fix the extraordinary lack of information with regards to australia in particular
Oct 13 03:38:16 <snadge> they need a response more like "yes, android.. its coming soon, we've been talking to google"
Oct 13 03:38:19 <snadge> not "we have no idea"
Oct 13 03:38:19 <muthu_> even India info is more from blogs
Oct 13 03:38:22 <muthu_> not official sources
Oct 13 03:39:19 <muthu_> depends on HTC plans
Oct 13 03:39:38 <muthu_> HTC needs to work with worldwide carriers
Oct 13 03:40:14 <snadge> i guess so.. my plans are to buy an american one whilst im over there in just over a month
Oct 13 03:40:36 <snadge> somehow unlock it, and somehow attempt to use it in australia anyway ;) (we have 3g on a supported frequency)
Oct 13 03:40:58 <snadge> theres not even any unreliable blog information that indicates if that will be possible
Oct 13 03:42:29 <muthu_> it should be possible
Oct 13 03:43:44 <snadge> at the very lest i'll have a toy to play with that i cant actually communicate with ;)
Oct 13 03:44:18 <muthu_> i'll buy since it will definitely work
Oct 13 03:44:28 <muthu_> its only a matter of time for carriers to pick it up
Oct 13 03:44:35 <BBHoss> snadge: i would do a bit of research before you do that
Oct 13 03:44:48 <snadge> BBHoss: i've tried to.. but if i still cant find that information out
Oct 13 03:44:53 <snadge> im still going to risk buying one anyway
Oct 13 03:45:10 <snadge> closer to the date i should be able to find out more.. or if someone else has tried it
Oct 13 03:45:14 <muthu_> can the hardware not work on different 3g freqs?
Oct 13 03:45:19 <BBHoss> the US uses different GSM frequencies than anyone else (this probably includes AU), and also T-Mobile uses a different 3G system than other people
Oct 13 03:45:30 <gdsx> muthu_: the hardware supports two 3G frequencies
Oct 13 03:45:31 <BBHoss> namely ATT here in the us
Oct 13 03:45:35 <snadge> yes but im going on the specs for the HTC dream
Oct 13 03:45:50 <gdsx> muthu_: the freqs are listed on HTC's website for the handset
Oct 13 03:45:51 <snadge> one of the frequencies listed, is the one the majority of 3g providers in australia uses
Oct 13 03:45:58 <muthu_> gdsx: ok
Oct 13 03:46:13 <muthu_> i'm going to wait and buy from local carriers
Oct 13 03:46:18 <muthu_> since india is an hack
Oct 13 03:46:21 <snadge> theres only one nonstandard 3g network in australia.. and its called nextg, and its more for people out in the bush (away from cities)
Oct 13 03:46:32 <snadge> since i live and work in cities.. i dont care ;)
Oct 13 03:46:44 <muthu_> snadge: if its listedn, then buy
Oct 13 03:47:01 <snadge> yes.. we can use either vodaphone, three or optus
Oct 13 03:47:27 <snadge> possibly telstra too, but only in capitals/cities
Oct 13 03:47:53 <snadge> im assuming it can fall back to 2G out of desperation
Oct 13 03:47:54 <BBHoss> snadge: the US uses 850 and 1900 mhz, if the G1 doesnt support anything else than that, i'd venture you'd be out of luck
Oct 13 03:48:05 <snadge> 850 is nextg
Oct 13 03:49:13 <BBHoss> according to wiki, it also supports 900 and 1800mhz too, so you should be alright, assuming you can unlock it
Oct 13 03:49:48 <muthu_> last week before launch.. woohooo
Oct 13 03:50:01 <BBHoss> it does UMTS and HSDPA for 3g
Oct 13 03:51:42 <muthu_> when's the market open?
Oct 13 03:51:49 <muthu_> is it not 'around' yet?
Oct 13 03:52:38 <umdk1d3> muthu_: srsly its only one week?  wow i didnt realize it creeped up on us
Oct 13 03:52:54 <muthu_> yeah, scarrry
Oct 13 03:52:59 <snadge> hmm we also use 900 and 2100
Oct 13 03:53:01 <umdk1d3> heh hasnt even been a year yet
Oct 13 03:53:25 <muthu_> i'm more interested in the apps on 22nd
Oct 13 03:53:34 <muthu_> and what the market does for them
Oct 13 03:53:40 <muthu_> how it compares to appstore etc.,
Oct 13 03:53:45 <muthu_> the success stories
Oct 13 03:53:48 <muthu_> the posterboys
Oct 13 03:53:53 <umdk1d3> yea i have a feeling there is alot of stuff being worked on behind the scenes
Oct 13 03:53:58 <umdk1d3> *ppl developing apps
Oct 13 03:54:09 <umdk1d3> however, i dont think they willbe ready by 22nd to launch
Oct 13 03:54:16 <umdk1d3> i think they want to test with handset first
Oct 13 03:54:24 <snadge> i'd buy shares in google.. on the anticipation that they're going to increase in value, but yeah
Oct 13 03:54:33 <muthu_> yea, but only few apps will be listed on 22
Oct 13 03:54:35 <snadge> just my luck, that would put a curse on the entire project ;)
Oct 13 03:54:43 <umdk1d3> snadge: lol yea how much did they drop in the last week?
Oct 13 03:54:53 <umdk1d3> nows prolly a decent time to buy
Oct 13 03:54:55 <snadge> oh so they're nice and cheap now? :P
Oct 13 03:55:10 <umdk1d3> cheaper  ;)
Oct 13 03:55:32 <muthu_> is it 250 now?
Oct 13 03:55:49 <muthu_> where the hell is that analyst who predicted 3000
Oct 13 03:56:01 <umdk1d3> from $535ish in july down to 328ish now
Oct 13 03:56:21 <umdk1d3> and $714 around new year
Oct 13 03:56:28 <muthu_> woah.. lot of money wiped out
Oct 13 03:56:37 <muthu_> hope some googs sold out last year
Oct 13 03:57:09 <muthu_> whoever joined last year is not so happy
Oct 13 03:57:19 <snadge> thats what happens when you're an r&d company pouring money into a "black hole" .. you'd better hope that black hole provides a return ;)
Oct 13 03:57:53 <muthu_> goog is making the right moves
Oct 13 03:58:20 <muthu_> and their focus now has been mobile.. which is exploding in the next 10 yrs
Oct 13 04:01:29 <muthu_> did a major UI overhaul, and now the app doesn't even start
Oct 13 04:02:15 <muthu_> smart thing is to roll back and not get too attached
Oct 13 04:03:05 <muthu_> umdk1d3: your emu skin doesn't provide dpad buttons
Oct 13 04:03:20 <snadge> you'll do it better next time anyway ;)
Oct 13 04:03:58 <muthu_> snadge: yeah, i hate UI's
Oct 13 04:04:07 <muthu_> can't get anything right there
Oct 13 04:04:58 * plusminus_ has just free AndNav of the complete "com.google.android.maps"-package :)
Oct 13 04:05:03 * plusminus_ Milestone reached
Oct 13 04:06:01 <muthu_> plusminus_: great
Oct 13 04:06:17 <plusminus_> I should reward myself with a break, but no the next weeks are hard times :) (And America wants to be discovered :D )
Oct 13 04:06:26 <muthu_> haha
Oct 13 04:06:35 * plusminus_ New York I'm coming  !!!
Oct 13 04:06:40 <muthu_> man, you are so ahead
Oct 13 04:06:41 <snadge> it all makes sense to me now.. the lower frequencies get more rang.. duh
Oct 13 04:06:55 <snadge> but higher frequencies essentially give you more bandwidth.. so its a tradeoff
Oct 13 04:07:13 <snadge> when you have enormous countries like australia, with remote rural populations.. you're forced to support dual band effectively
Oct 13 04:07:30 <plusminus_> snadge: thats why you can easily send radiowaves over hundres of kilometers
Oct 13 04:07:38 <snadge> high freq for city, low freq for country.. simple
Oct 13 04:07:50 <snadge> places like europe dont care, because theres no such thing as "country" in europe
Oct 13 04:07:58 <snadge> everywhere is effectively a city :P
Oct 13 04:08:04 <plusminus_> just cities close to each other :-D
Oct 13 04:08:21 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: ooh awesome
Oct 13 04:08:25 <umdk1d3> your using OSM right?
Oct 13 04:08:28 <muthu_> europe is facinating
Oct 13 04:08:34 <snadge> in australia you can drive over 850kms.. without even finding a gas statio
Oct 13 04:08:53 <muthu_> snadge: who wins today?
Oct 13 04:08:54 <snadge> we have signs like "last fuel for 900kms" etc
Oct 13 04:08:58 <plusminus_> http://www.t-mobile.de/funkversorgung/inland
Oct 13 04:09:02 <plusminus_> 3G in germany
Oct 13 04:09:24 <snadge> hehe thats beyond the range of a lot of vehicles.. so you have to take jerry cans with fuel :)
Oct 13 04:09:25 <umdk1d3> lower frequencies can difract over/around obsticles'
Oct 13 04:09:58 <muthu_> why would they not put a gas station somewhere in the middle
Oct 13 04:10:01 <muthu_> like every 200k
Oct 13 04:10:02 <plusminus_> there is 3G in any reasonable city (at least they say so :D )
Oct 13 04:10:10 <snadge> muthu_: because its not economically feasible
Oct 13 04:10:31 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: your using OSM right?
Oct 13 04:10:42 <snadge> nobody goes out there.. except trucks, and people with drop tanks, four wheel drives etc.. in a lot of places the roads arn't even sealed.. and impassable when it rains
Oct 13 04:10:57 <muthu_> hmm o
Oct 13 04:11:06 <plusminus_> umdk1d3: right
Oct 13 04:11:06 <muthu_> heard aus is a great place
Oct 13 04:11:13 <muthu_> to hand out and drink beer :)
Oct 13 04:11:14 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: that is /awesome/  =D
Oct 13 04:11:22 <plusminus_> thx
Oct 13 04:11:26 <umdk1d3> you should really consider bundling it up as a nice library to be reused
Oct 13 04:11:50 <snadge> australia is a fantastic place.. the problem is, i've lived here for 27 years (my age) .. and have never been anywhere else (until next month).. so i'm really looking forward to seeing some of the rest of the world :)
Oct 13 04:11:54 <umdk1d3> (or maybe you already designed it that way?)
Oct 13 04:12:05 <plusminus_> umdk1d3: I have.
Oct 13 04:12:20 <plusminus_> at least kindof, not a library but a bunch of sourcecode to download
Oct 13 04:12:26 <plusminus_> soon
Oct 13 04:12:32 <muthu_> snadge: yeah, going around the world is nice
Oct 13 04:12:36 <umdk1d3> =D  awesome  /me cant wait to play with it
Oct 13 04:12:40 <plusminus_> misses soem features like zoomToSpan
Oct 13 04:12:51 <plusminus_> you can download an apk... wait a second
Oct 13 04:13:21 <muthu_> hey, reusable libraries as apk
Oct 13 04:13:21 <plusminus_> http://www.anddev.org/viewtopic.php?p=11165#11165
Oct 13 04:13:24 <muthu_> nice
Oct 13 04:13:49 <plusminus_> erm no i just compiled those sources together with 3-4 sample activities
Oct 13 04:14:08 <muthu_> plusminus_: how much andnav are you selling ;)
Oct 13 04:14:15 <muthu_> have you opened that swiss account yet?
Oct 13 04:14:18 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 13 04:14:18 <unix_infidel> snadge: lol, dont you have a disequilibrium of male to female ratios in the larger cities?
Oct 13 04:16:42 <plusminus_> muthu_: :P first I have to build a reliable backend. Reliable, because I'm working on open data, which is not always 100% relieable.
Oct 13 04:16:59 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: awesome
Oct 13 04:17:19 <umdk1d3> the tiles seem a bit small though--or is the loading block not 1:1 size with a tile
Oct 13 04:17:36 <plusminus_> 256px
Oct 13 04:17:45 <umdk1d3> i wonder how hard it would be to write the zoom animation stuff
Oct 13 04:18:06 <plusminus_> thought of that, but its not on highest todo
Oct 13 04:18:13 <umdk1d3> also, is the image fetching in a separate thread?
Oct 13 04:18:20 <plusminus_> of course
Oct 13 04:18:37 <umdk1d3> hmm it seems to hang a bit when loading imagery though
Oct 13 04:18:38 <plusminus_> on GPRS it would stuck for around 10 seconds ^^
Oct 13 04:19:17 <umdk1d3> stuck, as in waiting for data, or stuck as in UI not responding?
Oct 13 04:19:28 <plusminus_> its a maximum of 5 download threads
Oct 13 04:19:28 <gdsx> in case it helps as a reference, the viking app rocks and can use google, Terraserver, or OpenStreetMap maps
Oct 13 04:19:39 <gdsx> not meant for embedded devices, though
Oct 13 04:20:30 <plusminus_> umdk1d3: its probably loading the MapTiles from the FS to the Memory-Cache
Oct 13 04:20:38 <plusminus_> I should put that to a thread also
Oct 13 04:21:01 <umdk1d3> does the network side of things dump to disk first?
Oct 13 04:21:06 <plusminus_> yes
Oct 13 04:21:12 <umdk1d3> ahh
Oct 13 04:21:26 <umdk1d3> yes, it is quite laggy when loading from disk then
Oct 13 04:21:32 <umdk1d3> the gui freezes for ~500ms
Oct 13 04:21:40 <plusminus_> while zooming?
Oct 13 04:22:00 <umdk1d3> its most noticeable when panning into a new area where it needs to load imagery
Oct 13 04:22:04 <plusminus_> theres a lot of space for tweaks
Oct 13 04:23:01 <umdk1d3> <3 mapnik
Oct 13 04:23:12 <plusminus_> the funny thing is that is more responsive when you slow the connection down to EDGE or GPRS
Oct 13 04:23:13 <umdk1d3> i had a HUGE ordeal with projection systems
Oct 13 04:23:36 <plusminus_> umdk1d3: OH YES !!!
Oct 13 04:23:57 <plusminus_> all that trigonometry
Oct 13 04:24:08 <plusminus_> I went crazy until I drawed a picture
Oct 13 04:24:18 <umdk1d3> i was rendering all my own mapnik tiles to create a "hybrid" view of my own
Oct 13 04:24:23 <umdk1d3> kinda like google maps
Oct 13 04:24:33 <umdk1d3> ive been meaning to contribute that python code back
Oct 13 04:24:42 <umdk1d3> using usgs satellite imagry
Oct 13 04:24:43 <plusminus_> is it public?
Oct 13 04:25:03 <umdk1d3> well, it was kinda for work, but i think i talked my boss into gpl'ing it
Oct 13 04:25:24 <plusminus_> hm satellite imagery would be fine, as OpenAerialMap is only up to zoomLevel ...? (not high ;) )
Oct 13 04:25:32 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: has someone written a good driving directions API using OSM data?
Oct 13 04:25:41 <umdk1d3> *good=available API, not an offline thing
Oct 13 04:25:47 <plusminus_> yes
Oct 13 04:25:49 <umdk1d3> i know getting "good" directions is hard with free data
Oct 13 04:26:01 <plusminus_> Gosmore looks fine: http://www.yournavigation.org/
Oct 13 04:26:13 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: the issue from our side of things was trying to get transparent backgrounds on the mapnik tiles
Oct 13 04:26:17 <plusminus_> This one is really nice: http://www.openrouteservice.org/
Oct 13 04:27:08 <umdk1d3> oh awesome  ^.^
Oct 13 04:27:21 <umdk1d3> having a kick-butt free turnbyturn directions would be awesome
Oct 13 04:27:32 <umdk1d3> free=not restricted by google maps TOS
Oct 13 04:28:04 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: with this port to OSM, how quickly do you think the rest of andnav will fall into place?
Oct 13 04:28:19 <umdk1d3> (do you need any help?  ;)
Oct 13 04:28:26 <umdk1d3> is it svn'ed somewhere btw?
Oct 13 04:28:46 <plusminus_> yes it is but I forgot where ;)
Oct 13 04:29:04 <umdk1d3> wait, your not saving your changes up into svn?  =O
Oct 13 04:29:21 <plusminus_> erm I'll see if I can somehow cooperate with http://www.openrouteservice.org/ they even have turn-descriptions
Oct 13 04:29:35 <plusminus_> of course i do  !!!!!
Oct 13 04:29:42 <plusminus_> just a joke
Oct 13 04:30:02 <umdk1d3> :P lol
Oct 13 04:31:05 <plusminus_> today I started setting up Gosmore ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Gosmore#Cgi_Routing_Interface ) which http://www.yournavigation.org/ uses, that's probably what the next Milestone will use.
Oct 13 04:31:27 <umdk1d3> yay the kinda seemt o have an api
Oct 13 04:31:41 <plusminus_> I haven't seen output of it yet, but afaik it laks indicating turnpoints.
Oct 13 04:32:09 <plusminus_> yeah they have, but I'm not sure if its up to date: http://www.yournavigation.org/gosmore.php?flat=52.552394&flon=-1.818763&tlat=52.563368&tlon=-1.818291&v=motorcar&fast=0&layer=mapnik
Oct 13 04:33:00 <plusminus_> if I can manage to make it indicate turn-points (coordinates) I'm fine with it :)
Oct 13 04:33:15 <plusminus_> oops, its getting late, g2g
Oct 13 04:33:20 <plusminus_> work tomorrow :(
Oct 13 04:33:21 <umdk1d3> kk cya
Oct 13 04:33:23 <plusminus_> damn it
Oct 13 04:33:34 <plusminus_> bye
Oct 13 04:35:39 <jasta> woo, system segfaulted
Oct 13 04:35:41 <jasta> rebooted android
Oct 13 04:40:10 <muthu_> segfault happens often
Oct 13 04:49:27 <muthu_> is there a 3 way toggle?
Oct 13 05:25:46 <romainguy> muthu_: no
Oct 13 05:27:56 <muthu_> thought so
Oct 13 05:29:08 <muthu_> now i'm getting an hang of this whole activity, view, adapter thingy ;)
Oct 13 05:29:55 <muthu_> romainguy: events propogate from parent to child?
Oct 13 05:29:59 <muthu_> or child to parent?
Oct 13 05:30:22 <romainguy> parent to child
Oct 13 05:30:27 <muthu_> ok
Oct 13 05:31:16 <muthu_> created a custom component with toggle, checkbox and radio
Oct 13 05:31:20 <muthu_> looks like shit
Oct 13 05:31:36 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 13 05:40:25 <muthu_> life is krazy
Oct 13 05:40:29 <muthu_> yesterday was death
Oct 13 05:40:34 <muthu_> today was birth
Oct 13 05:42:48 <muthu_> wonder what tomorrow is...
Oct 13 05:57:42 <romainguy> http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/2936662469/in/set-72157607816557599/
Oct 13 06:06:37 <living_sword> oo nice car
Oct 13 06:07:09 <romainguy> rental :)
Oct 13 06:09:04 <living_sword> looks like a jedi force field, lol
Oct 13 06:23:18 <muthu_> why is the car on fire ;)
Oct 13 06:28:40 <muthu> when a view switcher can be used over a new activity?
Oct 13 06:30:36 <muthu> any use case of view switcher?
Oct 13 06:40:59 <muthu> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/12/1-5-million-t-mobile-g1s-already-pre-ordered/
Oct 13 06:41:07 <muthu> 1.5 million customers
Oct 13 06:41:53 <muthu> * 99c
Oct 13 06:42:01 <muthu> = 1.485m
Oct 13 06:42:03 <muthu> woah!
Oct 13 06:43:13 <muthu> now if only my viewflipper works ;)
Oct 13 07:28:09 <muthu> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/12/androids-login-is-cool-but-is-it-secure/
Oct 13 07:28:13 <muthu> interesting
Oct 13 07:43:01 <living_sword> just a storm in a teacup
Oct 13 07:48:41 <muthu> what's the id's for views in view switcher?
Oct 13 07:48:46 <muthu> view1, view2?
Oct 13 08:01:48 <muthu> romainguy: viewswitcher.shownext() shows a blank screen..
Oct 13 08:01:56 <muthu> do i have to refresh or something?
Oct 13 08:05:02 <muthu> not using any anim transitions though
Oct 13 08:09:59 <muthu> guess it works only for simple views
Oct 13 08:21:09 <muthu> argghhh
Oct 13 08:21:15 <muthu> id's..
Oct 13 11:41:20 <umdk1d3> GAH this is driving me nuts, i cant find this trance song from its lyrics
Oct 13 12:14:43 <MrSnowflake> Hi guys
Oct 13 12:14:52 <plusminus_> hi
Oct 13 12:14:59 <MrSnowflake> hehe hi :)
Oct 13 12:15:36 <ligi> hi plusminus_
Oct 13 12:15:51 <ligi> plusminus_: great work ur OSM app !-)
Oct 13 12:16:03 <MrSnowflake> does anyone know how to define a view id, so I'd have to define it like with a ListActivity (android:id="@id/viewname" instead of "android:id="@+id/viewname")
Oct 13 12:21:29 <plusminus_> ligi: hx
Oct 13 12:22:10 <plusminus_> MrSnowflake: just "@id" is when you refer to another view
Oct 13 12:22:33 <plusminus_> like android:alignLeftOf="@id/neighbourview"
Oct 13 12:24:15 <MrSnowflake> Yeah I know, but I want others to use my predefined id
Oct 13 12:25:02 <plusminus_> don't know if that is possivle :/
Oct 13 12:25:36 <MrSnowflake> I'm making a jar from which I need/want to findViewById() on a particular ID in the content view set by the user
Oct 13 12:26:23 <MrSnowflake> The way arround could be having the user pass the id of the view, but that's a little less nice, i believe
Oct 13 12:26:23 <plusminus_> I asked a similar question some days ago for my OSMapView and the answer was to give the raw source xD
Oct 13 12:26:34 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 13 12:26:36 <plusminus_> g2g work starts in 5 minutes ^^
Oct 13 12:26:44 <MrSnowflake> hehe, have fun
Oct 13 12:28:20 <umdk1d3> MrSnowflake: so you want to pre-create an id?
Oct 13 12:28:58 <MrSnowflake> yes
Oct 13 12:29:35 <umdk1d3> 23:12 res/values/ids.xml  iirc
Oct 13 12:29:35 <umdk1d3> 23:13 yep then  <resources><item type="id" name="yay" /> ...
Oct 13 12:29:49 <MrSnowflake> thanks.
Oct 13 12:30:18 <MrSnowflake> And is it possible to add that xml to a jar, or should it first be compiled?
Oct 13 12:30:59 <umdk1d3> it needs to go through the android resource compiler to be put into R.java
Oct 13 12:31:19 <umdk1d3> you should add it in eclipse, alongside strings.xml, etc
Oct 13 12:31:29 <umdk1d3> it will auto-include on the resource compiler pass
Oct 13 12:32:04 <MrSnowflake> I tried that, but then I get an error from the Manifest, as I don't have an activity in my project. It's going to be a lib
Oct 13 12:32:44 <umdk1d3> oh hmm
Oct 13 12:32:59 <umdk1d3> using cross-project id's can be a little messy iirc
Oct 13 12:33:36 <MrSnowflake> hmmm... to bad..
Oct 13 12:33:41 <umdk1d3> im not sure how ids provided by libs are handled
Oct 13 12:34:02 <umdk1d3> someone else around here might, its worth idling about
Oct 13 12:35:41 <MrSnowflake> thanks man, now I atleast know it's not that easy.
Oct 13 12:35:48 <MrSnowflake> I'll use the workaround
Oct 13 13:26:56 <michaelnovakjr_> howdy Dougie187
Oct 13 13:27:50 <Dougie187> hey michaelnovakjr_
Oct 13 13:27:53 <Dougie187> hows it going?
Oct 13 13:28:04 <michaelnovakjr_> eh, been insanely busy
Oct 13 13:28:24 <Dougie187> yeah it happens.
Oct 13 13:28:30 <Dougie187> you still like your iphone?
Oct 13 13:28:37 <michaelnovakjr_> love it
Oct 13 13:29:15 <Dougie187> well thats good
Oct 13 13:29:23 <Dougie187> only like 9 days until the G1 comes out
Oct 13 13:29:25 <michaelnovakjr_> getting the android phone?
Oct 13 13:29:45 <Dougie187> im not going to. not yet at least.
Oct 13 13:29:52 <Dougie187> im keeping sprint. so i have to wait for it to come out on sprint
Oct 13 13:29:58 <michaelnovakjr_> cool
Oct 13 13:31:42 <Dougie187> you still writing android apps?
Oct 13 13:31:44 <Dougie187> or no?
Oct 13 13:31:55 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm actually going to help out on five
Oct 13 13:31:59 <yakischloba> well look who it is
Oct 13 13:32:00 <Dougie187> nice
Oct 13 13:32:11 <yakischloba> michael
Oct 13 13:32:14 <yakischloba> come back from the dead
Oct 13 13:32:16 <michaelnovakjr_> how's it going?
Oct 13 13:32:22 <michaelnovakjr_> more like from the mercy of my work
Oct 13 13:32:26 <yakischloba> ouch
Oct 13 13:32:31 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Oct 13 13:33:10 <yakischloba> I hope there isn't some rediculous line to get the phone
Oct 13 13:33:17 <michaelnovakjr_> i wouldn't think so
Oct 13 13:33:20 <yakischloba> I don't like that nonsense
Oct 13 13:33:28 <yakischloba> me either, but with all the supposed pre-orders
Oct 13 13:33:47 <michaelnovakjr_> is there a dev program where you can just get a handset?
Oct 13 13:34:02 <umdk1d3> not atm  :/
Oct 13 13:34:09 <michaelnovakjr_> lame
Oct 13 13:34:15 <yakischloba> I doubt anyone would have gone out of their way to be so accommodating :/
Oct 13 13:34:21 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Oct 13 13:34:23 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 13 13:34:29 <Dougie187> well 1.5 million have already been preordered.
Oct 13 13:34:41 <Dougie187> its probably going to be kinda hard to get one in a store on the 22nd
Oct 13 13:35:15 <michaelnovakjr_> tmobile jacked up the data plan for the phone huh
Oct 13 13:35:17 <michaelnovakjr_> 25 bucks
Oct 13 13:35:31 <Dougie187> from what i hear you can get away with the 20/month one.
Oct 13 13:35:35 <yakischloba> yeah. I can't do anything like camp out either. I'll get there around 3pm.
Oct 13 13:35:45 <yakischloba> (and I _wouldn't_ camp out FYI ;) )
Oct 13 13:35:48 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Oct 13 13:35:53 <Dougie187> I don't remember where I read it, but i read it somewhere.
Oct 13 13:35:54 <michaelnovakjr_> i camped out for an iPhone
Oct 13 13:35:58 <Dougie187> ...
Oct 13 13:35:59 <yakischloba> dork ;)
Oct 13 13:36:00 <michaelnovakjr_> i showered on fifth avenue
Oct 13 13:36:02 <Dougie187> yeah thats lame.
Oct 13 13:36:04 <michaelnovakjr_> in the street
Oct 13 13:36:06 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Oct 13 13:36:08 <Dougie187> and gross
Oct 13 13:36:09 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm kidding
Oct 13 13:36:25 <michaelnovakjr_> i got the phone about three weeks or so after it came out
Oct 13 13:36:39 <Dougie187> i thought you got the phone like 3 weeks ago.
Oct 13 13:36:46 <Dougie187> maybe a little more than that.
Oct 13 13:37:22 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, actually it was like 4 weeks ago
Oct 13 13:37:31 <michaelnovakjr_> so not three weeks after, more than that
Oct 13 13:40:20 <michaelnovakjr_> i popped in here last night, and got caught in the middle of muthu babbling
Oct 13 13:40:26 <michaelnovakjr_> he doesn't take a break huh
Oct 13 13:40:41 <Dougie187> what do you think?
Oct 13 13:40:48 <michaelnovakjr_> guess not
Oct 13 13:40:58 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 13 13:41:01 <Dougie187> did he ever?
Oct 13 13:41:10 <michaelnovakjr_> haha unfortunately not
Oct 13 13:41:31 <Dougie187> he even went as far as to get a different screen name and harass  people in the channel one day.
Oct 13 13:41:48 <michaelnovakjr_> you're kidding right?
Oct 13 13:41:49 <umdk1d3> =O
Oct 13 13:42:08 <Dougie187> he changed his name to something like saraneya or something and starting telling everyone they were idiots and didn't know anything about android
Oct 13 13:42:17 <Dougie187> and saying noone was helpful and stuff
Oct 13 13:42:27 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, he's a loser
Oct 13 13:42:31 <umdk1d3> that doesnt sound like muthu tho
Oct 13 13:42:38 <Dougie187> then the next day I noticed him changing his name around and I was like.. wtf are you doing that for muthu.
Oct 13 13:42:45 <Dougie187> and hes like "haha, it was pretty funny huh?"
Oct 13 13:43:00 <Dougie187> i said "what? you being a total douche?"
Oct 13 13:43:06 <michaelnovakjr_> hah
Oct 13 13:43:10 <Dougie187> and hes like yeah, everyone is a douche sometimes.
Oct 13 13:43:18 <Dougie187> it was retarded.
Oct 13 13:43:21 <michaelnovakjr_> except he is all the time
Oct 13 13:43:33 <Dougie187> i said, noone is ever intentionally a douche though.
Oct 13 13:43:40 <Dougie187> except him.
Oct 13 13:43:41 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Oct 13 13:43:43 <Dougie187> or if you hate someone.
Oct 13 13:43:50 <Dougie187> you might be a douche to them.
Oct 13 13:44:17 <michaelnovakjr_> Dougie187: how much did you get your thinkpad for?
Oct 13 13:44:22 <Dougie187> like 850
Oct 13 13:44:34 <michaelnovakjr_> i've been putting off getting a new one... but its definitely time
Oct 13 13:44:39 <Dougie187> heh
Oct 13 13:44:41 <michaelnovakjr_> how do you like it?
Oct 13 13:44:45 <Dougie187> i don't know if they are as cheap as they were.
Oct 13 13:44:46 <Dougie187> but i love it.
Oct 13 13:44:48 <Dougie187> its awesome
Oct 13 13:44:56 <michaelnovakjr_> nice
Oct 13 13:44:58 <Dougie187> way better than my old one.
Oct 13 13:45:01 <Dougie187> it never gets hot.
Oct 13 13:45:16 <Dougie187> sometimes it gets semi warm, but not even when im playing games.
Oct 13 13:45:16 <michaelnovakjr_> that's awesome
Oct 13 13:45:27 <michaelnovakjr_> you have win and linux on it?
Oct 13 13:45:31 <Dougie187> no win.
Oct 13 13:45:32 <Dougie187> just linux
Oct 13 13:45:36 <michaelnovakjr_> sweet
Oct 13 13:45:38 <Dougie187> straight up ubuntu.
Oct 13 13:45:44 <michaelnovakjr_> no centos?
Oct 13 13:45:47 <Dougie187> i even dumped the recovery partition.
Oct 13 13:45:52 <Dougie187> don't joke like that.
Oct 13 13:46:06 <Dougie187> i would shoot myself in the face if I had centos on my laptop.
Oct 13 13:46:27 <cutmasta> lol
Oct 13 13:46:44 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Oct 13 13:47:07 <Dougie187> the new t series laptops have a cool feature though, supposedly you can swap your graphics card on the fly.
Oct 13 13:47:14 <Dougie187> but i dont know if it works in linux or not.
Oct 13 13:47:23 <michaelnovakjr_> what graphics do you have in there now?
Oct 13 13:47:29 <Dougie187> an nvidia one.
Oct 13 13:47:34 <michaelnovakjr_> nice
Oct 13 13:47:36 <Dougie187> nvida nvs140m something like that
Oct 13 13:47:39 <yakischloba> ubuntu sucks :(
Oct 13 13:47:45 <Dougie187> yakischloba: your face sucks.
Oct 13 13:47:47 <Dougie187> hah
Oct 13 13:47:49 <michaelnovakjr_> yakischloba: and what do you prefer?
Oct 13 13:47:52 <umdk1d3> <3 gentoo
Oct 13 13:47:57 <yakischloba> I prefer MacOS lol
Oct 13 13:48:03 <yakischloba> I use ubuntu here at work and it crashes all the time
Oct 13 13:48:04 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Oct 13 13:48:06 <Dougie187> im not a big fan of macos.
Oct 13 13:48:11 <Dougie187> and ubuntu never crashes on me.
Oct 13 13:48:15 <yakischloba> lucky you
Oct 13 13:48:18 <Dougie187> :)
Oct 13 13:48:25 <Dougie187> what machine do you use it on?
Oct 13 13:48:26 <michaelnovakjr_> yakischloba: do you have crappy hardware at work? it sounds like it?
Oct 13 13:48:36 <yakischloba> seems like a pretty solid machine to me
Oct 13 13:48:43 <yakischloba> best I can figure is that the dual monitor thing makes it crash
Oct 13 13:48:46 <Dougie187> solid as it, its made out of lead?
Oct 13 13:48:57 <michaelnovakjr_> yakischloba: nvidia graphics?
Oct 13 13:49:01 <Dougie187> s\as it\as in\g
Oct 13 13:49:04 <yakischloba> michaelnovakjr_: ati
Oct 13 13:49:27 <yakischloba> Dougie187: nah its uhh..dual 3.0ghz with 3gb ram or something
Oct 13 13:49:30 <michaelnovakjr_> dual monitor setup is pretty straightforward.... just don't use the separate x as an option
Oct 13 13:49:36 <michaelnovakjr_> that will crash it
Oct 13 13:49:40 <Dougie187> yeah seperate x sucks.
Oct 13 13:49:42 <yakischloba> I don't think I did that
Oct 13 13:49:48 <yakischloba> im using like the
Oct 13 13:49:53 <yakischloba> large monitor emulation or whatever
Oct 13 13:49:54 <Dougie187> doesn't ati have a control center for it too?
Oct 13 13:49:58 <yakischloba> where it treats both displays as one big one
Oct 13 13:49:59 <Dougie187> so its all guied or whatever.
Oct 13 13:50:06 <michaelnovakjr_> i believe so
Oct 13 13:50:12 <Dougie187> i know nvidia does.
Oct 13 13:50:18 <michaelnovakjr_> yep
Oct 13 13:50:20 <Dougie187> makes it really easy to hook my laptop up to the tv.
Oct 13 13:50:32 <Dougie187> yakischloba: do you have the right driver?
Oct 13 13:50:54 <yakischloba> I've tried two different drivers
Oct 13 13:51:21 <yakischloba> I think theres an OSS one and the one that ATI distributes
Oct 13 13:51:21 <Dougie187> and neither of them fixed the crashing issue?
Oct 13 13:51:37 <Dougie187> do you ever try to figure out what is making your machine crash?
Oct 13 13:51:39 <yakischloba> Nope. I'm not certain the crashing issue is related
Oct 13 13:51:40 <yakischloba> heh
Oct 13 13:51:40 <yakischloba> no
Oct 13 13:51:44 <yakischloba> I'm always too busy when it happens
Oct 13 13:51:51 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 13 13:51:56 <Dougie187> well, then you shouldn't complain about it.
Oct 13 13:51:56 <yakischloba> on the phone etc, have to reboot and get on with everything
Oct 13 13:52:11 <yakischloba> shrug. I know my Mac doesn't crash :)
Oct 13 13:52:23 <Dougie187> i have a friend who just got a mac.
Oct 13 13:52:33 <Dougie187> and he loved it for like a day or two
Oct 13 13:52:36 <michaelnovakjr_> i have a mac
Oct 13 13:52:42 <michaelnovakjr_> i like it every once in a while
Oct 13 13:52:45 <Dougie187> while he was playing with the multitouch and whatnot.
Oct 13 13:52:50 <michaelnovakjr_> i actually prefer windows over it
Oct 13 13:52:55 <yakischloba> ahh. mine doesn't have multitouch
Oct 13 13:53:03 <yakischloba> my mac is the best thing i've ever bought on impulse
Oct 13 13:53:10 <Dougie187> then he tried to develop stuff on it, and now all he does is complain about how hard it is to get everything to work.
Oct 13 13:53:20 <Dougie187> hes like "man i wish it had a good package manager or something, like apt"
Oct 13 13:53:27 <michaelnovakjr_> development is actually easy.... i just don't care much for the UI anymore
Oct 13 13:53:32 <yakischloba> heh
Oct 13 13:53:37 <yakischloba> I've had no problems with development
Oct 13 13:53:41 <michaelnovakjr_> like i said... i prefer windows over mac
Oct 13 13:53:53 <Dougie187> i also don't like how apple distrubutes out of date compilers.
Oct 13 13:53:54 <Dougie187> like gcc.
Oct 13 13:53:57 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Oct 13 13:54:02 <Dougie187> their gcc doesn't even support openmp
Oct 13 13:54:02 <michaelnovakjr_> yes... that is annoying
Oct 13 13:55:14 <yakischloba> anyway I just use it here at work because its the next best thing IMO. it just doesn't seem as far along as I had expected
Oct 13 13:55:38 <michaelnovakjr_> are you using 8.04
Oct 13 13:55:48 <yakischloba> yeah
Oct 13 13:56:07 <umdk1d3> bah i hate the EDGE provider in my town
Oct 13 13:56:12 <umdk1d3> freaks me out everytime i ssh back into a box
Oct 13 13:56:19 <michaelnovakjr_> i will say you do have to customize it greatly to get all you want.... but if you setup the OS right it'll be awesome
Oct 13 13:56:22 <umdk1d3> they lease IPs from *everywhere* seems like
Oct 13 13:56:38 <yakischloba> hmm. seems like it has quite a large following
Oct 13 13:56:54 <michaelnovakjr_> its the easiest to get up and running
Oct 13 13:56:55 <yakischloba> which is why I expected it to be spectabulous right out of the iso
Oct 13 13:57:00 <michaelnovakjr_> you don't have to do much to get online with it
Oct 13 13:57:10 <yakischloba> yeah i'll give it that
Oct 13 13:57:13 <yakischloba> very easy install
Oct 13 13:57:25 <michaelnovakjr_> its one of its attractive features
Oct 13 13:57:37 <michaelnovakjr_> you can use amazon mp3 downloader with it
Oct 13 13:57:43 <michaelnovakjr_> limewire, etc.
Oct 13 13:57:48 <michaelnovakjr_> the basics
Oct 13 13:58:33 <yakischloba> hmm
Oct 13 13:58:44 <yakischloba> i don't particularly care for the package-centric design either
Oct 13 13:58:50 <michaelnovakjr_> i hate kde with a passion
Oct 13 13:59:03 <michaelnovakjr_> amarok is getting re-written in ruby
Oct 13 13:59:08 <michaelnovakjr_> that spells lame
Oct 13 13:59:44 <yakischloba> I'm used to building software from source. I don't like futzing around trying to find the right package name that contains whatever libs i need etc
Oct 13 14:00:00 <michaelnovakjr_> i used to, but then i got lazy
Oct 13 14:00:11 <michaelnovakjr_> for music players and email programs i don't care if its a package
Oct 13 14:00:24 <yakischloba> hmm weird. As much as I love ruby, I don't think I would try to write a music player in it
Oct 13 14:00:27 <michaelnovakjr_> other stuff like eclipse i download outside the package manager
Oct 13 14:00:33 <yakischloba> yeah I'm talking about devel stuff
Oct 13 14:00:43 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, the dev settings can get funky
Oct 13 14:02:14 <yakischloba> and of course the only thing I hate more than package managers is control panels
Oct 13 14:03:29 <michaelnovakjr_> certain control panels are helpful... others suck
Oct 13 14:04:10 <yakischloba> we resell control panels to our customers for their dedicated servers and I have to deal with bullshit problems with em all day
Oct 13 14:04:44 <yakischloba> if you _need_ a control panel and can't troubleshoot it yourself when it fucks up, you have no business administering a server
Oct 13 14:05:16 <yakischloba> </job rant>
Oct 13 14:05:45 <umdk1d3> control panels are for wimps  ^.^
Oct 13 14:09:00 <umdk1d3> mmm caffiene kicking in  =D
Oct 13 14:10:47 <unix_lappy> lol, true laziness is when you're too lazy to get coffee in the morning (much less breakfast...)
Oct 13 14:13:40 <michaelnovakjr_> never too lazy for coffee
Oct 13 14:13:44 <michaelnovakjr_> i can't function without it
Oct 13 14:17:05 <Dougie187> lol i don't like coffee
Oct 13 14:18:07 <snadge> since i bought a new bed, i dont need to drink coffee in the morning.. bizarre
Oct 13 14:18:28 <snadge> when i wake up now.. im actually awake
Oct 13 14:19:17 <michaelnovakjr_> weird
Oct 13 14:19:24 <michaelnovakjr_> does that mean your new bed sucks?
Oct 13 14:19:39 <michaelnovakjr_> cause my bed is comfortable and i hate getting up in the morning :)
Oct 13 14:19:58 <snadge> not sure.. i had a really uncomfortable bed for about a year before this one
Oct 13 14:20:10 <snadge> oh and i used to chronically smoke weed
Oct 13 14:20:26 <michaelnovakjr_> ah so the truth comes out
Oct 13 14:21:36 <unix_lappy> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/12/androids-login-is-cool-but-is-it-secure/
Oct 13 14:22:06 <snadge> you think that was more the problem than the bed? :P
Oct 13 14:22:07 <unix_lappy> le sigh @ arrington.
Oct 13 14:22:28 <michaelnovakjr_> i would be interested in going to the launch event
Oct 13 14:23:55 <snadge> "Android is dead anyway, so who cares?"
Oct 13 14:24:06 <snadge> lol that was one of the comments.. why would somebody say that?
Oct 13 14:24:22 <snadge> steve ballmer maybe?
Oct 13 14:24:44 * snadge ducks a flying chair
Oct 13 14:26:02 <zhobbs> so most people even put a password on their phone?
Oct 13 14:26:07 <zhobbs> do*
Oct 13 14:26:12 <michaelnovakjr_> not really
Oct 13 14:26:21 <michaelnovakjr_> apple had some trouble with that too
Oct 13 14:26:34 <umdk1d3> i think they havent up til this point because it hasnt been easy
Oct 13 14:26:38 <michaelnovakjr_> i find it annoying that everytime you unlock it you have to put in a password
Oct 13 14:26:40 <umdk1d3> the unlock pattern opens it to more people
Oct 13 14:26:52 <MrSnowflake> Yes, but only 9 points is really restrictive
Oct 13 14:27:02 <MrSnowflake> 16 points would be a lot better
Oct 13 14:27:27 <kslater> can you re-trace your steps on the pattern?
Oct 13 14:27:37 <umdk1d3> kslater: nope  :/
Oct 13 14:27:44 <kslater> ok, that's bad
Oct 13 14:27:54 <umdk1d3> once you go through a point, you cant revisit it
Oct 13 14:28:00 <umdk1d3> im sure someone could add that feature tho
Oct 13 14:28:15 <MrSnowflake> that makes 9 point very useless
Oct 13 14:28:24 <MrSnowflake> every1 is going to make the 'G' :D
Oct 13 14:28:28 <Disconnect> so top-left across center to bottom right, then over to center and up to top-center wouldn't work? what is this, tron?
Oct 13 14:28:31 <umdk1d3> :P  lol
Oct 13 14:28:35 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 13 14:28:49 <jasta> *yawn*
Oct 13 14:28:52 <MrSnowflake> Ow, sorry didn't see the revisit
Oct 13 14:29:01 <Disconnect> (over to bottom-center that is, then up through already-hit center to top-center)
Oct 13 14:29:11 <MrSnowflake> But hey, as google will open up that too, we can make it 256 point
Oct 13 14:29:17 <MrSnowflake> try to hack that :D
Oct 13 14:29:17 <zhobbs> Disconnect: I think that would work
Oct 13 14:29:26 <michaelnovakjr_> what's up jasta, do you see my pm?
Oct 13 14:29:34 <umdk1d3> i think the point isnt to make it incredibly secure
Oct 13 14:29:40 <umdk1d3> its to get more people to use simple security
Oct 13 14:29:42 <umdk1d3> instead of none at all
Oct 13 14:29:55 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_: yeah, just kind opening my eyes for the first time this morning tho :)
Oct 13 14:29:56 <zhobbs> I don't think I'd use it
Oct 13 14:30:09 <MrSnowflake> still 16 dots woudln't be that hard I guess.
Oct 13 14:30:12 <zhobbs> I'd rather have a remote bricking features
Oct 13 14:30:15 <michaelnovakjr_> :) sometimes my client doesn't authenticate properly
Oct 13 14:30:18 <zhobbs> feature*
Oct 13 14:30:25 <MrSnowflake> and the finger smudges on the screen won't be as visible I think
Oct 13 14:30:26 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: i leave my crap all over the place, so its nice to know its somewhat secured
Oct 13 14:30:41 <Disconnect> zhobbs: i'd really rather us cell providers did imei-banning on stolen phones, but thats just me..
Oct 13 14:30:50 <umdk1d3> MrSnowflake: agreed, the finger smudges for the passwrod prolly couldnt be told apart from normal screne actions
Oct 13 14:31:07 <MrSnowflake> zhobbs: there's a permission.BRICK, so go ahead and write your service :p
Oct 13 14:31:40 <Disconnect> umdk1d3: i'd say - having not used one - that there are prolly 3 kinds of smudges. taps, scroll (mostly on one side) and password, which is distinctive because its all one 'zorro' swipe instead of the cumulation of a bunch of littler ones
Oct 13 14:31:53 <zhobbs> MrSnowflake: I saw that, was wondering about that one
Oct 13 14:31:57 <MrSnowflake> true
Oct 13 14:32:23 <MrSnowflake> zhobbs: I believe those Google guys have too much spare time :). Like the GRAVITY_DEATH_STAR AND GRAVITY_THE_ISLAND
Oct 13 14:32:25 <MrSnowflake> :
Oct 13 14:32:26 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 13 14:32:27 <umdk1d3> Disconnect: hmm that is true
Oct 13 14:32:44 <umdk1d3> GRAVITY_YOUR_MOTHER   =O
Oct 13 14:33:11 <MrSnowflake> GRAVITY_YOUR_MOTHER #inf#
Oct 13 14:33:39 <umdk1d3> insert "yo momma so fat" jokes here, where she has her own gravitational pull
Oct 13 14:34:01 <MrSnowflake> hehe :)
Oct 13 14:34:23 <MrSnowflake> umdk1d3: But now you can use your android phone to prove your "yo momma so fat" jokes :D
Oct 13 14:35:03 <Disconnect> anyone want to look at their phone in the light and see if the zorro swipe is readable? (esp after its been used for a few mins and relocked - the zorro might not be 'on top' so it might be rubbed out a bit)
Oct 13 14:36:10 <MrSnowflake> If you scroll a couple time through a webpage, the smudges aren't 'readable' anymore
Oct 13 14:36:17 <MrSnowflake> on my wimo device that is.
Oct 13 14:48:21 <Disconnect> cool
Oct 13 14:48:40 <MrSnowflake> ?
Oct 13 15:03:35 <DubLo7> I have an application which makes extensive use of bluetooth serial... is there any chance I can roll the 0.8 or 0.9 bluetooth libraries into my application?
Oct 13 15:04:27 <MrSnowflake> 0.9 doesn't have a bluetooth lib afaik
Oct 13 15:04:44 <MrSnowflake> I think you have to wait till a future version
Oct 13 15:05:01 <DubLo7> Crud... I was hoping to get away from windows mobile
Oct 13 15:05:32 <MrSnowflake> Heh, yeah me too, but you have to wait a little longer :).
Oct 13 15:06:16 <DubLo7> Version 1.0 already kicks WM version 6 butt.  I'm not worried, just impatient.  :)
Oct 13 15:06:40 <MrSnowflake> I think every1 here is :D
Oct 13 15:07:15 <Foxdie> :)
Oct 13 15:07:18 <Foxdie> seconded
Oct 13 15:07:32 <Foxdie> can I ask G1 questions in here btw?
Oct 13 15:09:33 <summatusmentis> I suppose you can ask, not sure what the policy is on answering them though :)
Oct 13 15:09:43 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 13 15:09:45 <wastrel> you can ask anything here
Oct 13 15:09:51 <wastrel> we will answer to the best of our googling ability
Oct 13 15:10:04 <Foxdie> heh :)
Oct 13 15:10:23 <DubLo7> dilution of trademark
Oct 13 15:10:41 <wastrel> web search with popular web search engine
Oct 13 15:10:45 <Foxdie> A channel full of googlers, I'm not sure whether this is comparable to slices of buttered toast strapped to the back of a cat and then dropped ;)
Oct 13 15:10:45 <wastrel> ing ability
Oct 13 15:10:48 <DubLo7> lol there ya go
Oct 13 15:11:02 <Foxdie> my question is this, and is admittedly quite geeky;
Oct 13 15:11:16 <Foxdie> has anyone thought about making a wrist strap case for the G1?
Oct 13 15:11:23 <Foxdie> so essentially you wear the G1 on your wrist
Oct 13 15:11:34 <DubLo7> I've got a bike mount
Oct 13 15:12:22 <wastrel> wrist computer eh
Oct 13 15:12:40 <Foxdie> indeed
Oct 13 15:12:46 <MrSnowflake> hehe :)
Oct 13 15:13:00 <MrSnowflake> oh, like a watch 'braclet' thingy?
Oct 13 15:13:00 <DubLo7> I like the wrist idea... there are some roller blade wrist guards that would look pretty cool modded to hold one
Oct 13 15:13:17 <Foxdie> what I'm surprised is google image searching for "htc wrist case" and similar searches, no one seems to have done it for any of the HTC devices
Oct 13 15:13:31 <MrSnowflake> Hehe if the phone could control your other peripherals it would be awsome :)
Oct 13 15:13:41 <DubLo7> btw, where's the best place to order a G1?
Oct 13 15:13:48 <DubLo7> looks like everywhere is out
Oct 13 15:13:53 <MrSnowflake> Foxdie: Maybe u're the geekiest of them all :p
Oct 13 15:13:56 <Foxdie> ^_^
Oct 13 15:14:03 <MrSnowflake> "One Geek to rule them all"
Oct 13 15:14:04 <Foxdie> thought about doing it with my HTC Artemis
Oct 13 15:14:18 <Foxdie> but then the artemis is smaller than the G1 by a lot, but no built in keyboard
Oct 13 15:14:19 <MrSnowflake> But that's wimo, so very uncool :p
Oct 13 15:14:25 <Foxdie> indeed lol
Oct 13 15:14:36 <Foxdie> lets just say it doesn't run the default winmo shell :)
Oct 13 15:14:52 * Foxdie wish it ran android or linux
Oct 13 15:14:57 <dd94300> is it possible to have java class that contains only service?
Oct 13 15:15:48 <MrSnowflake> dd94300: why wouldn't it?
Oct 13 15:16:24 <pardom> dd94300: do you mean this? public void MyService extends Service
Oct 13 15:16:40 <dd94300> pardom, yes
Oct 13 15:16:59 <pardom> yup
Oct 13 15:18:50 <dd94300> pardom: so it would be possible to start a service when android boots up or any other application, rt?
Oct 13 15:21:14 <MrSnowflake> Yes, buth then you need an IntentReceiver on BOOT_COMPLETE and the permission.BOOT_COMPLETE (not actuall names)
Oct 13 15:22:42 <dd94300> ok thanks MrSnowflake and pardom
Oct 13 15:22:46 <MrSnowflake> np
Oct 13 15:32:21 <zhobbs> you also need to declare the permission for BOOT_COMPLETE
Oct 13 15:32:45 <MrSnowflake> hehe yups: <MrSnowflake> Yes, buth then you need an IntentReceiver on BOOT_COMPLETE and the permission.BOOT_COMPLETE (not actuall names)
Oct 13 15:33:16 <zhobbs> :)
Oct 13 15:41:52 <jasta> zhobbs: have you ever run into crap like if you reset/release a MediaPlayer object that wasn't used it hangs?
Oct 13 15:42:05 <zhobbs> jasta: nope
Oct 13 15:42:12 <jasta> do you ever release it?
Oct 13 15:42:38 <zhobbs> onDestroy() I do
Oct 13 15:42:45 <jasta> but you mentioned you never stop your service
Oct 13 15:43:14 <zhobbs> very true :)
Oct 13 15:43:26 <jasta> hehe
Oct 13 15:45:24 <zhobbs> though, that's going to change...I need to stop my service when it's done
Oct 13 15:45:44 <jasta> well, look out for this, because i'm pretty sure i'm not doing anything wrong here...
Oct 13 15:45:49 <zhobbs> ok
Oct 13 15:45:53 <jasta> i construct my MediaPlayer object in onCreate and destroy in onDestroy
Oct 13 15:46:15 <jasta> if for some reason between the two the object was never used (setDataSource and play), it will lock up the thread that calls release
Oct 13 15:46:26 <jasta> which is your main thread in onDestroy
Oct 13 15:46:48 <zhobbs> strange
Oct 13 15:47:09 <jasta> either reste or release on an unused mediaplaye rwill do this
Oct 13 15:47:58 <jasta> likewise, if you call setDataSource, prepareAsync, but then call reset+setDataSource before start(), setDataSource will throw IllegalStateException
Oct 13 15:48:26 <zhobbs> hmmm
Oct 13 15:48:34 <jasta> but if you catch this exception and call reset+setDataSource again, it will work lol
Oct 13 15:48:58 <jasta> you should take a look at my StreamMediaPlayer class.  it encapsulates work arounds for these things
Oct 13 15:49:05 <jasta> so my server need not care about MediaPlayer bugs
Oct 13 15:49:09 <jasta> service*
Oct 13 15:51:05 <jasta> and i know that you do streaming media in yours, so you especially have to watch out for that lame prepareAsync/start problem.  if the user was to cancel before bufferring finishes, but then you attempt to reuse the mediaplayer object, it would freak
Oct 13 15:51:55 <DubLo7>   Could someone direct me to somewhere I can get development hardware for Android?  G1 or otherwise.  T-mobile won't sell me one because I'm not in their coverage area.
Oct 13 15:52:25 <jasta> there is no special developer program that i know of.  this is not unlike all other mobile platforms...
Oct 13 15:52:26 <cbeust_> Dublo: That's surprising, but can't you order one online?
Oct 13 15:52:33 <jasta> only huge companies get dev pricing
Oct 13 15:52:56 <DubLo7> when I put in my zip code it says I'm outside of the service area
Oct 13 15:53:23 <jasta> well, if you can't get t-mobile service, maybe you don't want a G1? :)
Oct 13 15:53:34 <jasta> unless you do get AT&T coverage, in which case you should see how you can buy an unlocked phone
Oct 13 15:53:39 <jasta> perhaps through ebay when they are available
Oct 13 15:53:53 <summatusmentis> I want a G2 (or whatever they're going to call the rumored Sprint version)
Oct 13 15:54:18 <DubLo7> I have AT&T and another GSM provider.  I just need something to test on.  I've got about 12 phones
Oct 13 15:54:40 <benley> DubLo7: I'm sure it will be possible to get one unlocked in a month or so
Oct 13 15:54:53 <jasta> well then when the phones are available, google around for unlocked ones.
Oct 13 15:55:11 <benley> DubLo7: (at least, that's what I expect.  it took like 5 seconds for unlocked iphones to show up on ebay when they were launched, right?)
Oct 13 15:55:15 <DubLo7> OK.  So is this developer challenge just using the emulator so far?
Oct 13 15:55:20 <jasta> but do realize AT&T won't be able to support the 3G portion of the phone.  I doubt you live in 3G coverage tho :)
Oct 13 15:55:36 <DubLo7> I have an HTC advantage that gets 3G.
Oct 13 15:55:36 <jasta> DubLo7: the ADC is long over, but yes, it was exclusively on the emulator
Oct 13 15:55:58 <jasta> DubLo7: well then you won't get 3G with the G1 in your area.  it uses a different frequency.
Oct 13 15:55:58 <DubLo7> A friend gets 3G all the time after he complained to AT&T and mentioned the class action lawsuit
Oct 13 15:56:18 <jasta> DubLo7: 3G isn't something that AT&T just "turns on" for you.  i think you are confused.
Oct 13 15:56:30 <DubLo7> jasta: That's just what he tells me and he is often confused
Oct 13 15:56:41 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 13 15:57:11 <jasta> 3G is a separate band that phones can operate on, supported by a faster data network.  If the phone's radio doesn't support the carriers 3G band, then it simply will not work.  If it does, it simply will work :)
Oct 13 15:57:44 <jasta> The G1 does not support AT&T's 3G band.  It supports T-Mobile's, and the much more popular global 2100 band.
Oct 13 15:57:51 <DubLo7> jasta: The htc advantage has 3G and I can get online for about 1 minute or so before it drops to hspa(?) or edge
Oct 13 15:58:06 <DubLo7> jasta: In last vegas we tethered it and tried bittorrent and it worked ok
Oct 13 15:58:20 <jasta> well, you don't seem to be listening to me so nevermind
Oct 13 15:58:28 <cbeust_> No reason why 3G would drop unless you lose coverage
Oct 13 15:58:37 <cbeust_> I certainly have 3G hours in a row at a time
Oct 13 15:58:58 <DubLo7> jasta: No... I am listening.  I'll just have to deal with whatever hardware I can get.  Rest assured I am cataloging the information.  :)
Oct 13 16:02:04 <umdk1d3> DubLo7: there is a second ADC coming up that will be announced soon, which will happen using real devices
Oct 13 16:03:17 <DubLo7> umdk1d3: Thanks.  I'll watch for it in the RSS of the android blog
Oct 13 16:21:39 <muthu> yor
Oct 13 16:26:18 <muthu> WOW!
Oct 13 16:26:20 <muthu> http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/paul-krugman-wins-economics-nobel/?hp
Oct 13 16:26:49 <muthu> love him
Oct 13 16:27:14 <michaelnovakjr_> WOW!
Oct 13 16:27:19 <michaelnovakjr_> definitely ignoring you now
Oct 13 16:28:31 <muthu> hey michaelnovakjr_
Oct 13 16:28:44 <muthu> what's happenin dud
Oct 13 16:37:03 <Rob-cs> anyone around?
Oct 13 16:37:20 <muthu> hey Rob-cs
Oct 13 16:37:37 <Rob-cs> how are your projects going muthu?
Oct 13 16:37:40 <jasta> romainguy: is it basically a no-op to do drawing outside the canvas' clipped bounds?  i am noticing that because i have a seekbar layered on top of my reflectionlayout the reflectionlayout gets a dispatchDraw call each time the seek bar moves...
Oct 13 16:38:07 <jasta> but i'm wondering if that's actually not wasting any cycles because the reflection won't really draw since the clip bounds are outside of anywhere it would need to display
Oct 13 16:38:08 <muthu> Rob-cs: goin good, if i can grab a G1 it would be great
Oct 13 16:38:47 <Rob-cs> muthu: what are you working on now?
Oct 13 16:38:57 <muthu> http://mobeegal.in
Oct 13 16:39:16 <michaelnovakjr_> Rob-cs: annoying people
Oct 13 16:40:56 <Rob-cs> haha who is? me?
Oct 13 16:41:01 <michaelnovakjr_> no muthu
Oct 13 16:41:27 <wastrel> hi folks
Oct 13 16:41:28 <Rob-cs> uh oh, haha its like a playground fight every time i come in here
Oct 13 16:41:32 <Rob-cs> whattup wastrel?
Oct 13 16:42:19 <wastrel> i am at work.
Oct 13 16:42:22 <Rob-cs> Anyone in here know anyone developers who have a little time for paid work?
Oct 13 16:43:36 <muthu> Rob-cs: try the android developers forum
Oct 13 16:43:48 <muthu> if you post it there.. you might find someone
Oct 13 16:51:48 <Rob-cs> you mean the google group?
Oct 13 16:51:57 <muthu> yup
Oct 13 16:56:16 <muthu> G1 demand is greater than expected
Oct 13 16:56:25 <muthu> and now all those nay sayers are eating their words
Oct 13 16:58:25 <jasta> zhobbs: just also discovered that if you call stop() on an uninitialized MediaPlayer, then setDataSource will hang.
Oct 13 16:59:05 <jasta> by uninitialized i mean one that has never been used to start playback
Oct 13 16:59:21 <zhobbs> well, that should at least throw an ISE
Oct 13 16:59:40 <jasta> sure, but instead it blocks the calling thread indefinitely :)
Oct 13 17:01:14 <zhobbs> I generally always check isPlaying() before most calls like that
Oct 13 17:01:34 <jasta> i don't because isPlaying() has broken semantics
Oct 13 17:01:56 <jasta> the time between prepareAsync and start() will register isPlaying() == false, and yet, mp.stop() will actually change its behaviour (it will disconnect the stream)
Oct 13 17:03:53 <jasta> instead i have my StreamMediaPlayer class track the state of the underlying MediaPlayer and choose to ignore certain calls under certain situations
Oct 13 17:03:57 <jasta> or ignore certain exceptions
Oct 13 17:04:05 <jasta> the class has to be babysat :)
Oct 13 17:04:53 <zhobbs> my biggest problem is when the media player encounters an error with streaming stuff sometimes it just calls onCompletionListener and claims to be done
Oct 13 17:05:13 <zhobbs> so for the user it just goes to the next item randomly
Oct 13 17:05:25 <_avatar> i've worked with the media player a bit, i've found that for best results just create a new MediaPlayer instance every time you want to play something. recycling old ones cause instability
Oct 13 17:10:34 <jasta> zhobbs: really?  i have not seen that, however i have seen that the seek estimation is so broken that if the user seeks just a little bit too far forward, it will request a range that makes no sense and call onCompletion
Oct 13 17:12:33 <zhobbs> it's very finicky...I'm sure everyone gets different results
Oct 13 17:13:02 <jasta> yes, it has numerous serious bugs
Oct 13 17:13:21 <jasta> how do you guys even do streaming?  surely you're not just pointing it at a URL and letting its do its thing?
Oct 13 17:13:24 <jasta> it do its*
Oct 13 17:14:30 <_avatar> sure, that's what i do
Oct 13 17:14:35 <zhobbs> that's exactly what it is :)
Oct 13 17:14:43 <jasta> really?  so how do you get buffer progress?
Oct 13 17:14:53 <jasta> oh you must not be using rtsp
Oct 13 17:14:56 <jasta> err not be using http
Oct 13 17:14:56 <zhobbs> there's a buffer status listener
Oct 13 17:15:03 <jasta> zhobbs: yeah, but it doesn't do squat.
Oct 13 17:15:22 <jasta> for HTTP, the buffer listener tells you total download progress (it counts up 0 to 100 until the download is done)
Oct 13 17:15:27 <zhobbs> right
Oct 13 17:15:34 <zhobbs> I just start() in onPrepared()
Oct 13 17:15:35 <michaelnovakjr_> that isn't progressive then?
Oct 13 17:15:47 <_avatar> yeah, i'm using http. our samples are only 30 seconds, and optimized for streaming, so we just display an indeterminate progress bar until onPrepared
Oct 13 17:15:48 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_: that's progress, but it advertises the interface as "buffer fill percentage" changes
Oct 13 17:16:58 <_avatar> and, again, i get around a lot of stability issues by not recycling old MediaPlayer objects. once i've called setDataSource() on a MediaPlayer i don't reuse it.
Oct 13 17:18:28 <zhobbs> jasta: it is tricky to check if the video has stalled due to buffering
Oct 13 17:18:56 <zhobbs> but not really....if (isPlaying() && progressNow == progressLastTime)
Oct 13 17:38:58 <humbolt> can I put android on a x86 netbook?
Oct 13 17:40:08 <MrSnowflake> Emu or real, with real _you_ probably can't.
Oct 13 17:40:43 <humbolt> real
Oct 13 17:41:04 <humbolt> if it is opensource I should be able to compile it for x86, not?
Oct 13 17:41:21 <zhobbs> I heard a rumor about a "native sdk" coming out eventually
Oct 13 17:41:44 <MrSnowflake> It's not just a mather of compiling to x86 code. There are a lot of Kernel modules to be written, a lot of device specific code has to be ported to x86
Oct 13 17:48:58 <Disconnect> zhobbs: native sdk or just an approved jni (or jni-style) way to run native code?
Oct 13 17:50:13 <zhobbs> Disconnect: a way to run dalvik vm without qemu I guess
Oct 13 17:50:39 <Disconnect> ah a native dev env. i was thinking native sdk as in an sdk for native code...
Oct 13 17:52:03 * Disconnect wants his phone already. chances are good (well, about even anyway) that its already boxed and crated and palletized and waiting for fedex/ups/eagle/dhl/whomever to pick it up and start delivering :(
Oct 13 18:04:53 <f00f-> boo
Oct 13 18:05:09 <muthu> baa
Oct 13 18:07:26 <f00f-> was goin on muthu
Oct 13 18:07:40 <f00f-> excited about g1 in your hometown?
Oct 13 18:07:46 <muthu> ooh yeah
Oct 13 18:07:56 <muthu> in dec, hopefully
Oct 13 18:08:12 <muthu> less than 10k
Oct 13 18:08:20 <muthu> joot
Oct 13 18:08:39 <f00f-> unsubsidized?
Oct 13 18:08:53 <muthu> guess so
Oct 13 18:08:59 <muthu> its always unlocked here
Oct 13 18:09:01 <muthu> mostly
Oct 13 18:09:04 <f00f-> okay
Oct 13 18:09:08 <f00f-> well that's a steal then
Oct 13 18:09:17 <f00f-> any difference from EU model?
Oct 13 18:09:27 <muthu> should be the same
Oct 13 18:09:47 <MrSnowflake> Where you from?
Oct 13 18:10:17 <muthu> chennai, india
Oct 13 18:10:21 <muthu> madras
Oct 13 18:10:40 <muthu> near bangalore
Oct 13 18:10:50 <MrSnowflake> and f00f?
Oct 13 18:11:22 <f00f-> snowflake, i'm from california
Oct 13 18:11:48 <muthu> and mr snow?
Oct 13 18:11:49 <MrSnowflake> So, where does the EU model come from? Any info on that then? (I'm from Belgium, so)
Oct 13 18:12:27 <f00f-> HTC probably ;)
Oct 13 18:12:46 <f00f-> i think it drops the US 3G frequency, that's probably it?
Oct 13 18:13:17 <MrSnowflake> I don't know, as the US 3G frequency would make it an ordinary quad-band doesn't it?
Oct 13 18:15:04 <f00f-> we really shouldn't be talking about frequencies in here
Oct 13 18:15:24 <f00f-> that issue has been beaten to a bloody pulp
Oct 13 18:15:28 <f00f-> with no definite conclusions drawn
Oct 13 18:16:09 <MrSnowflake> I actually don't care about frequencies, so long it comes to EU ASAP :-)
Oct 13 18:17:28 <f00f-> you'll get it pretty soon
Oct 13 18:17:37 <f00f-> some weeks after US
Oct 13 18:21:46 <MrSnowflake> That's the UK
Oct 13 18:21:51 <MrSnowflake> UK != EU :D
Oct 13 18:22:02 <MrSnowflake> Though UK version will work in Flanders
Oct 13 18:23:19 <MrSnowflake> Though I hope it's not going to be too expensive as my gf will KILL me :)
Oct 13 18:23:29 <MrSnowflake> Physically kill me
Oct 13 18:23:30 <MrSnowflake> ;)
Oct 13 18:28:06 <f00f-> actually yes there will be an EU version
Oct 13 18:28:12 <f00f-> very close to UK
Oct 13 18:28:19 <f00f-> probably simultaneous or a week or two later
Oct 13 18:28:27 <f00f-> expect t-mobile deutschland to launch something quickly
Oct 13 18:28:51 <f00f-> there were a string of rumor-announcements
Oct 13 18:30:04 <MrSnowflake> Hmm, the only thing I heard was a januari release in Holland (and thus the Benelux, in which Belgium belongs)
Oct 13 18:31:20 <f00f-> <3 benelux
Oct 13 18:32:40 <MrSnowflake> you know it?
Oct 13 18:32:49 <MrSnowflake> that's imposible :)
Oct 13 18:40:53 <f00f-> i've been to bruxelles
Oct 13 18:41:05 <f00f-> belgians are nice people
Oct 13 18:41:15 <f00f-> very friendly
Oct 13 18:41:25 <MrSnowflake> Could be :).
Oct 13 18:41:41 <MrSnowflake> I hope you tried some trapists?!!
Oct 13 18:42:32 <f00f-> what's that?
Oct 13 18:42:40 <f00f-> i had some 'belgian waffles'
Oct 13 18:42:41 <MrSnowflake> Beers
Oct 13 18:42:42 <f00f-> (sorry i had to indulge)
Oct 13 18:42:50 <f00f-> oh i was too young for that when i visited
Oct 13 18:42:56 <MrSnowflake> hehe too bad :)
Oct 13 18:43:11 <MrSnowflake> you can drink here if you're 16 you know :)
Oct 13 18:43:25 <f00f-> oh.. hmm, whoops :D
Oct 13 18:43:47 <cutmasta> MrSnowflake, europe is great regarding beer and so on :)
Oct 13 18:44:14 * cutmasta was in rotterdam last weekend
Oct 13 18:44:19 <cutmasta> also nice :)
Oct 13 18:44:20 <MrSnowflake> Europe is just great, well actually I only know Belgium and Holland good enough to make statements about that :)
Oct 13 18:44:43 <MrSnowflake> Sure, but the beers are not so good in Holland.
Oct 13 18:44:43 <cutmasta> MrSnowflake, i live in germany, and was in spain,italy,netherland,belgium,denmark :)
Oct 13 18:44:54 <cutmasta> and of course
Oct 13 18:44:58 <cutmasta> best beer comes from germany :)
Oct 13 18:45:05 <MrSnowflake> WAAAahahahahaha :)
Oct 13 18:45:12 <MrSnowflake> funny guy, funny guy... :p
Oct 13 18:45:22 <cutmasta> jjust kidding
Oct 13 18:45:33 <MrSnowflake> Actually I don't know a lot of German beers.
Oct 13 18:45:36 <cutmasta> you cannot discuss taste of drinks
Oct 13 18:45:37 <cutmasta> hehe
Oct 13 18:45:43 <MrSnowflake> true!
Oct 13 18:45:45 <DubLo7> Check this awesome spam subject I just got - "Make her scream 'oh webmaster!'"
Oct 13 18:45:51 <cutmasta> loooooooooool
Oct 13 18:45:54 <MrSnowflake> hehe :)
Oct 13 18:46:00 <f00f-> hahahaha
Oct 13 18:46:11 <DubLo7> to the webmaster account of course.  lol
Oct 13 18:46:24 <cutmasta> hehe
Oct 13 18:47:17 <MrSnowflake> "My name is Master, ... Web Master"
Oct 13 18:47:25 <zhobbs> why are there so many people trying to compete with the Android Market?
Oct 13 18:47:38 <MrSnowflake> Because the are crazy?!
Oct 13 18:47:39 <f00f-> zhobbs: aren't you one of them? ;)
Oct 13 18:47:44 <zhobbs> lol
Oct 13 18:47:52 <MrSnowflake> *they
Oct 13 18:48:01 <zhobbs> yeah, probably will kill the app section on HelloAndroid, not sure though
Oct 13 18:48:15 <MrSnowflake> What market alt you have?
Oct 13 18:48:39 <zhobbs> helloandroid.com/apps
Oct 13 18:48:56 <MrSnowflake> say guys, I've got a Javadoc problem, it says : tag @see can't find someFunction() in someClass. but it's definately there
Oct 13 18:49:08 <DubLo7> 1.5 million devices pre-ordered from t-mobile alone.  Sounds good to me.
Oct 13 18:49:32 <romainguy_> MrSnowflake: the format is @see #methodName()
Oct 13 18:49:39 <romainguy_> and the signature (with parameters) must match
Oct 13 18:50:04 <MrSnowflake> yeah, but it's in a inner class so: id do @see innerClass#method()
Oct 13 18:50:19 <romainguy_> try with the fully qualified name of the inner class
Oct 13 18:50:45 <rayado> if you put the (), the parameters have to match
Oct 13 18:51:02 <rayado> if you do it without the (), e.g. #someMethod, then if it's not overloaded, then it will work
Oct 13 18:51:09 <MrSnowflake> same!
Oct 13 18:51:33 <romainguy_> is your inner class static ?
Oct 13 18:51:38 <MrSnowflake> I have the correct signature, at least that's what I think, does a final param has to be declared?
Oct 13 18:51:43 <MrSnowflake> Romainguy: no
Oct 13 18:51:51 <romainguy_> that's why then
Oct 13 18:51:57 <MrSnowflake> ?
Oct 13 18:52:12 <MrSnowflake> actually it's a interface :)
Oct 13 18:52:15 <jasta> hmm, is Handler#hasMessages O(n)?
Oct 13 18:53:16 <MrSnowflake> ok, it does work without params, well, it's good enough for now
Oct 13 18:53:18 <MrSnowflake> thanks!
Oct 13 18:54:05 <rayado> jasta:  in some cases
Oct 13 18:54:14 <jasta> which ones? :)
Oct 13 18:54:22 <rayado> I take that back
Oct 13 18:54:23 <rayado> yes
Oct 13 18:54:38 <rayado> each looper has one queue
Oct 13 18:54:51 <rayado> and hasMessages looks through it for messages targeted for it
Oct 13 18:54:58 <jasta> maybe removeMessages() should be modified to return the number of messages removed then
Oct 13 18:56:00 <jasta> or a boolean matching hasMessages
Oct 13 18:56:14 <rayado> it does return a boolean matching hasMessages
Oct 13 18:56:20 <jasta> i show void
Oct 13 18:56:30 <rayado> omg
Oct 13 18:56:31 <rayado> sorry
Oct 13 18:56:37 <rayado> LAME
Oct 13 18:56:54 <rayado> they're both implemented in terms of the same method, which returns the boolean
Oct 13 18:56:58 <jasta> yup :)
Oct 13 18:56:59 <rayado> but the remove doesn't
Oct 13 18:57:10 <rayado> return anything
Oct 13 18:57:11 <rayado>     public final void removeMessages(int what) {
Oct 13 18:57:12 <rayado>         mQueue.removeMessages(this, what, null, true);
Oct 13 18:57:12 <rayado>     }
Oct 13 18:57:19 <rayado>     public final boolean hasMessages(int what) {
Oct 13 18:57:19 <rayado>         return mQueue.removeMessages(this, what, null, false);
Oct 13 18:57:19 <rayado>     }
Oct 13 18:57:25 <jasta> hehe
Oct 13 18:57:41 <rayado> the last param to mQueue.removeMessages is a boolean whether to actually do the remove
Oct 13 18:58:02 <jasta> i take it the API is frozen? :)
Oct 13 18:58:10 <Disconnect> anyone got a g1 and can speak to whether the sms's are stored in the google cloud or not?
Oct 13 18:58:22 <jasta> Disconnect: ****what****?
Oct 13 18:58:46 <MrSnowflake> Disconnect sees SMSes in the clouds
Oct 13 18:58:55 <cutmasta> :)
Oct 13 18:58:57 <rayado> jasta:  yeah, it's frozen
Oct 13 18:59:02 <jasta> rayado: nuts :)
Oct 13 18:59:22 <jasta> maybe i'll just override sendMessage and track whether i've got unhandled messages of the type i'm interested
Oct 13 18:59:28 <jasta> so i dont have to run O(n) twic e:)
Oct 13 18:59:48 <romainguy_> maybe before doing this you should see how many messages are typically in the queue
Oct 13 18:59:57 <romainguy_> if it's just a few...
Oct 13 18:59:57 <jasta> btw i sure hope that hasMessages() has an opt to stop checking when it finds one
Oct 13 19:00:05 <rayado> itdoes
Oct 13 19:00:10 <rayado> that's why I said sometimes
Oct 13 19:00:25 <rayado> but I didn't see that it was looping through everything for the looper
Oct 13 19:00:43 <jasta> oh well
Oct 13 19:00:52 <rayado> also that means that if you're going to do if (h.hasMessages()) h.removeMessages(), you might as well just do h.removeMessages().
Oct 13 19:01:09 <MrSnowflake> for the signature in the javadoc, does it have to have the parameter's names?
Oct 13 19:01:48 <jasta> rayado: i do the if because i do something in the event that there are messages :)
Oct 13 19:01:59 <jasta> really its not a big deal.
Oct 13 19:33:23 <tretle_> anyone know whether the g1 geotags photos out of the box?
Oct 13 19:33:39 <zhobbs> tretle_: I think it does
Oct 13 19:33:47 <jasta> geotagging is great ;)
Oct 13 19:33:48 <tretle_> nice
Oct 13 19:34:16 <tretle_> now all I need is an android enabled handset for sale in ireland
Oct 13 19:34:18 <tretle_> :D
Oct 13 19:36:42 <jasta> tretle_: you're in Ireland?
Oct 13 19:36:54 <tretle_> yup
Oct 13 19:36:56 <jasta> i just got back from 2 weeks there
Oct 13 19:37:08 <tretle_> cool, where did you go?
Oct 13 19:37:41 <jasta> all over.  flew into dublin, drove down to kilkenny, waterford, cork, kenmare, up to dingle, galway, westport, then back to dublin
Oct 13 19:38:18 <jasta> kilkenny was my favorite.  i got there the day they were playing the senior hurling finals :)
Oct 13 19:38:32 <jasta> then went to waterford the next day.  *ouch* :)
Oct 13 19:39:49 <tretle_> waterford isnt that bad :D
Oct 13 19:39:54 <tretle_> from clare myself
Oct 13 19:40:05 <jasta> well, i mean they got dominated by the Kilkenny team, so the town wasn't exactly cheery :)
Oct 13 19:40:29 <jasta> you live in Dublin now?
Oct 13 19:40:45 <tretle_> would recommend bunratty castle
Oct 13 19:40:49 <tretle_> no clare
Oct 13 19:41:07 <tretle_> Just outside shannon, close enough to bunratty
Oct 13 19:41:09 <jasta> oh, still.  most techy people i know from there end up heading into Dublin and going to work for The Man :)
Oct 13 19:41:22 <jasta> that is, Microsoft or Google :)
Oct 13 19:41:54 <tretle_> Hmm.... long term plans after college would be to work for an opensource company or create a startup
Oct 13 19:42:03 <jasta> yeah we were in clare for a while.  i missed bunratty castle tho.  i wish i had gone, someone recommended it but i just spaced it
Oct 13 19:42:07 <tretle_> wouldnt mind moving to another country in order to do so
Oct 13 19:43:11 <tretle_> great resteraunts and pubs in bunratty, also nice scenery and loads of things to do
Oct 13 19:43:35 <jasta> I liked Dingle a lot (i know, i'm a tourist)
Oct 13 19:43:52 <tretle_> :d
Oct 13 19:43:54 <tretle_> :D
Oct 13 19:44:11 <jasta> i headed into this bar there kinda outside the main area and ran into some fun locals.  mostly chatted up the bartender hehe
Oct 13 19:44:20 <jasta> also, Fungie is great
Oct 13 19:44:22 <jasta> so :)
Oct 13 19:44:29 <tretle_> http://www.gnome.org/~csaavedra/news-2008-10.html#D13 , why geotagging in android would be great now :D
Oct 13 19:47:33 <jasta> bbl, gotta finish up this little project before lunch
Oct 13 19:48:02 <jeld> my app crashes on start, and I cannot seem to figure it out, what am I doing wrong? http://pastebin.com/m5104f572
Oct 13 19:49:30 <tretle_> well from glancing at that I can see two { but only one }
Oct 13 19:50:51 <tretle_> Im no expert but Im assuming you need to close it
Oct 13 19:51:11 <tretle_> jeld?
Oct 13 19:51:29 <jeld> tretle_, yup
Oct 13 19:51:57 <jeld> tretle_, oh, sorry, I didn't paste some of the commented out code, so I forgot the closing }
Oct 13 19:52:04 <tretle_> ah
Oct 13 19:52:17 <jeld> it builds, just crashes on start
Oct 13 19:54:44 <jasta> well
Oct 13 19:55:01 <jasta> findViewById searches the view hierarchy for a view.  if it doesnt find it, it returns null...
Oct 13 19:55:19 <jasta> setContentView sets the view hierarchy.  so calling findViewById before setContentView would of course always return null
Oct 13 19:55:38 <jasta> you'd then access it (results_view.setAdapter) which would throw NullPointerException, and your app would to start up.
Oct 13 19:55:50 <jasta> so, call setContentView first, right after onCreate :)
Oct 13 19:55:57 <jasta> erm, right after super.onCreate
Oct 13 19:57:36 <jasta> also, take a look at the result of the adb logcat command.  it can be really useful when your app dies like this
Oct 13 20:02:39 <jeld> jasta, thanks, lemme try that
Oct 13 20:05:23 <jeld> jasta, still fails, seems like there is some sort of casting problem related to TextView
Oct 13 20:05:37 <jeld> jasta, from what I can tell from logcat
Oct 13 20:05:57 <jasta> what is the type of the view from main.xml that has the android:id os "results"?
Oct 13 20:06:01 <jasta> of*
Oct 13 20:06:10 <jasta> ...is it, a TextView? :)
Oct 13 20:14:08 <jeld> ListView
Oct 13 20:14:22 <jeld> oops
Oct 13 20:14:26 <jeld> sorry TextView
Oct 13 20:14:37 <jeld> Why the heck is it textview?! :)
Oct 13 20:14:42 <jasta> because you made it one, i don't know
Oct 13 20:17:01 <tomgibara> I resumed work on moseycode this weekend, feels good!
Oct 13 20:17:13 <jasta> agreed, i'm glad to be back developing :)
Oct 13 20:17:23 <jeld> jasta, with ListView it still fails with a java.lang.NullPointerException
Oct 13 20:17:52 <jasta> paste the contents of your main.xml, i'm sure it's all screwed up :)
Oct 13 20:17:53 <jeld> jasta, I added a value to results, just in case ListView didn't like to be bound to an empty list
Oct 13 20:17:57 <tomgibara> In the process I discovered a new way of encoding integers as circular dot patterns, it's beautiful :)
Oct 13 20:18:35 <jeld> http://pastebin.com/d170446b2
Oct 13 20:18:56 <tomgibara> I was so pleased with it that I spent today writing an outline description.
Oct 13 20:19:13 <tomgibara> Valuable development hours gone, but worth it.
Oct 13 20:19:21 <wastrel> what's moseycoe?
Oct 13 20:19:21 <jasta> jeld: ok, and paste your revised code again please
Oct 13 20:19:24 <wastrel> code
Oct 13 20:19:39 <jasta> and make sure to include the line that NPE fired from (adb logcat will show you)
Oct 13 20:19:47 <tomgibara> wastrel: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/moseycode/
Oct 13 20:20:02 <jeld> http://pastebin.com/d13d50a4e
Oct 13 20:20:18 <tomgibara> (not yet operational on the 1.0 SDK)
Oct 13 20:20:19 <jasta> jeld: what do you suppose results is at line 19?
Oct 13 20:20:34 <wastrel> cool
Oct 13 20:21:02 <wastrel> tomgibara: what about this circular dot pattern neat thing?
Oct 13 20:21:18 <wastrel> nvm found it on your homepage
Oct 13 20:21:21 <jeld> jasta, let me guess, still empty?
Oct 13 20:21:26 <jasta> jeld: it's null.
Oct 13 20:21:48 <tomgibara> wastrel: You'll need some mathematical background to appreciate it
Oct 13 20:22:03 <jeld> jasta, hmm... I do declare it a List...
Oct 13 20:22:09 <jasta> yes, and its type is List<String>
Oct 13 20:22:16 <jasta> its value, however, is null.
Oct 13 20:22:18 <wastrel> ah bad for me :[
Oct 13 20:22:59 <jasta> jeld:  i think you probably want private final List<String> results = new List<String>();
Oct 13 20:23:07 <jeld> jasta, ah!
Oct 13 20:23:14 <Cedric2> new List() won't work though
Oct 13 20:23:19 <cutmasta> bye all
Oct 13 20:23:51 <tomgibara> wastrel: Yeah, it's beautiful in the sense where nice bit of mathematics leads to a tight solution in software
Oct 13 20:24:38 <tomgibara> (I think it's genuinely new - I've not been able to find any references to it)
Oct 13 20:27:52 <jeld> List<String> results = Arrays.asList("No Results");
Oct 13 20:31:47 <umdk1d3> gah is there a decent android rss feed reader out there?
Oct 13 20:32:22 <umdk1d3> there is one on google code thats been updated recently, but its still... unpolished
Oct 13 22:02:53 <jasta> mmm, minHeight is very convenient :)
Oct 13 22:12:01 <ttuttle> swetland: ping
Oct 14 00:53:07 <Disconnect> ok i'm feeling dumb. following the docs online, I can't manage to get the object out of the xml layout. (eg "TextView .. id="@+id/tv1" .. how do i get that programatically to - eg - change the text..?) trying to follow http://code.google.com/android/reference/available-resources.html#layoutresources
Oct 14 00:53:24 <jasta> uhh
Oct 14 00:53:36 <jasta> can you rephrase?  i can't parse that :)
Oct 14 00:54:06 <Disconnect> sorry :/ really tired. basically i'm creating a layout in xml, with (among other things) a textview and an edittext.
Oct 14 00:54:20 <Disconnect> how do i get a hold of those programatically in order to manipulate them?
Oct 14 00:55:04 <Disconnect> or should i just ignore the xml layout and do it all programatically from the start?
Oct 14 00:55:04 <jasta> findViewById()?
Oct 14 00:55:17 <jasta> no, definitely don't do it all on your own.  it's always a good idea to use XML layouts
Oct 14 00:55:27 <jasta> do you mean how to inflate an XML layout and attach it?
Oct 14 00:56:01 <Disconnect> I've got it displaying, I think its findViewById I was missing. gotta figure out what the int is that it wants tho.
Oct 14 00:56:38 <jasta> it wants R.id.foo
Oct 14 00:56:42 <jasta> from your package
Oct 14 00:56:44 <Disconnect> cool :) R.id.tvfield
Oct 14 00:56:55 <Disconnect> yah thats what i was missing i think. thanks :)
Oct 14 01:11:42 <Disconnect> so on the actual device, will the clocks give the same time? :)
Oct 14 01:12:04 <romainguy> they do
Oct 14 01:16:39 <Disconnect> just wondering :)
Oct 14 01:51:18 <Disconnect> random side note, the code on http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html#addmenuitems is outdated
Oct 14 01:51:26 <Disconnect> not that hard to figure out but..
Oct 14 01:54:53 <jasta> you should report this type of stuff to the issue list
Oct 14 01:54:57 <jasta> that way someone will actually fix it :P
Oct 14 02:02:06 <Disconnect> i should, true.
Oct 14 02:02:26 * Disconnect will, but not tonight. tongiht its bedtime, too tired to see straight anymore (it was a busy/long weekend)
Oct 14 02:02:56 <wastrel> i am at home
Oct 14 02:23:51 <umdk1d3> gosh darnit i just had a nightmare about being in new york city, and everyone had "not here" signs in their windows, because everyone was trying to get theri paws on phones
Oct 14 02:24:25 <wastrel> i live in nyc
Oct 14 02:31:15 <umdk1d3> lol @ http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg282/rizzy811/iphonevsstone.jpg
Oct 14 02:32:08 <summatusmentis> umdk1d3: d'you have an iPod Touch?
Oct 14 02:32:29 <umdk1d3> kinda, not with me atm
Oct 14 02:33:08 <wastrel> my friend has one
Oct 14 02:33:11 <wastrel> it is very thin
Oct 14 02:33:34 <summatusmentis> I want one
Oct 14 02:35:53 <umdk1d3> it became very apparent over time how "walled garden" it was
Oct 14 02:36:04 <umdk1d3> it *is* sexy, including the UIs
Oct 14 02:37:25 <summatusmentis> yeah, the "walled garden" thing bugs me, but I need a new iPod, and my 810 isn't used enough to justify it
Oct 14 02:39:24 <umdk1d3> i cant stand going back to my n810 now  :/
Oct 14 02:40:25 <summatusmentis> really? after using which? Touch? or Android?
Oct 14 02:41:00 <umdk1d3> both  :(  the 810s one redeeming feature is native bash+ssh though  ^.^
Oct 14 02:41:14 <umdk1d3> but its firefox is horridly slow
Oct 14 02:41:53 <summatusmentis> it really really is
Oct 14 02:42:02 <summatusmentis> I want bluetooth
Oct 14 02:48:00 <SanMehat> yo
Oct 14 02:49:49 <summatusmentis> hi SanMehat :)
Oct 14 02:50:35 <SanMehat> hahaha
Oct 14 02:50:38 <SanMehat> hey
Oct 14 02:52:08 <summatusmentis> >_> not trying to be creepy
Oct 14 02:53:48 <wastrel> creepy what now?
Oct 14 02:55:18 <summatusmentis> wastrel: I run into the same people over and over again in multiple channels
Oct 14 02:55:41 <wastrel> weird
Oct 14 02:55:48 <wastrel> never happens to me
Oct 14 02:56:08 <summatusmentis> haha
Oct 14 02:57:21 <summatusmentis> no, SanMehat just said hi in #gsoc and here
Oct 14 02:57:53 <summatusmentis> and I creepily responded to both
Oct 14 02:57:55 <umdk1d3> shouldnt it be #gfoc or gwoc now?  :P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 14 02:59:57 2008