**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 14 02:59:57 2008
Oct 14 03:01:08 <summatusmentis> if only
Oct 14 03:01:17 <summatusmentis> then I wouldn't need to work stupid help desk jobs
Oct 14 03:13:01 <dmoffett> Has anyone had luck calling the Google Map app from their program?
Oct 14 03:14:29 <plusminus_> did not yet try, but there is a couple of things it should react on :/
Oct 14 03:14:51 <plusminus_> is there a specific youtube intent or how to show a youtube-video ?
Oct 14 03:15:03 <plusminus_> or just ACTION_VIEW and a youtube url ?
Oct 14 03:16:13 <dmoffett> I am trying to use this Intent.
Oct 14 03:16:15 <dmoffett> Intent intent = new Intent(android.intent.action.VIEW, uri);
Oct 14 03:16:38 <dmoffett> android.intent.action.VIEW is not valid apparently.
Oct 14 03:16:56 <dmoffett> my uri is geo:alat,along
Oct 14 03:17:46 <dmoffett> tried android.content.Intent.ACTION_VIEW
Oct 14 03:17:55 <dmoffett> but that fails with Activity not found.
Oct 14 03:19:10 <plusminus_> maybe that one: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=New+York
Oct 14 03:19:17 <plusminus_> as uri
Oct 14 03:19:40 <jasta> uhm, no.
Oct 14 03:20:05 <jasta> http://code.google.com/android/reference/available-intents.html
Oct 14 03:20:17 <jasta> you use geo
Oct 14 03:20:34 <dmoffett> Yes that is what I trying to use.
Oct 14 03:20:42 <dmoffett> geo:lat,long
Oct 14 03:21:08 <dmoffett> I suspect that I need some kind of permission.
Oct 14 03:21:16 <jasta> yes, check the list of permissions
Oct 14 03:25:57 <jasta> romainguy: is it redundant to call requestLayout and invalidate()?  will requestLayout take care of both?
Oct 14 03:29:53 * plusminus_ *AndNav status update* Google-Routing now works on OSM-Maptiles (looks funny, when you are told to use streets that do not yet exist in the osm tiledata ^^)
Oct 14 03:30:43 <dmoffett> No permission needed.
Oct 14 03:30:44 <dmoffett> Intent intent = new Intent(android.content.Intent.ACTION_VIEW, uri);
Oct 14 03:30:45 <dmoffett> 			ownerActivity.startActivity(intent);
Oct 14 03:31:01 <dmoffett> that does it with a uri geo:lat,long
Oct 14 03:31:10 <dmoffett> not sure why it did not work before.
Oct 14 03:33:25 <umdk1d3> mmm <3 bash scripting
Oct 14 03:33:41 <summatusmentis> I've never done any bash scriptiong
Oct 14 03:33:48 <summatusmentis> scripting*
Oct 14 03:34:05 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: google routing?  doesnt that reintroduce the licensing issues?
Oct 14 03:34:32 <plusminus_> just for testing the correctnes of my projection
Oct 14 03:34:45 <umdk1d3> ahic
Oct 14 03:35:03 <umdk1d3> yea ive noticed that projects like mapnik have adopted google maps projection system alot
Oct 14 03:35:11 <umdk1d3> which makes things alot easier
Oct 14 03:35:32 <plusminus_> yes, its maybe a 1-2 px error I'd say on what I see here
Oct 14 03:36:41 <plusminus_> but that maybe comes from colelcting the data slightly different
Oct 14 03:36:42 <umdk1d3> thats not bad at all  ;)
Oct 14 03:37:05 <wastrel> something about bash
Oct 14 03:38:00 <dmoffett> Depends on how far you are zoomed in.  :-)
Oct 14 03:38:12 <muthu> ahoy
Oct 14 03:38:56 <muthu> anyone tried a gallery inside a list?
Oct 14 03:39:10 <muthu> so you can get horizontal pick
Oct 14 03:40:08 <muthu> lol.. dogbert ceo
Oct 14 03:49:50 <muthu> http://techblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/google-chrome-browser-losing-m.html
Oct 14 03:50:01 <ttuttle> Anyone used Video Player?
Oct 14 03:50:10 <ttuttle> I've put a .mp4 file on my microSD card, but it won't show up.
Oct 14 03:50:32 <umdk1d3> its removed from the usb host
Oct 14 03:50:32 <umdk1d3> ?
Oct 14 03:50:35 <jasta> we don't get the video player
Oct 14 03:50:40 <jasta> do we?
Oct 14 03:50:50 <ttuttle> It's in the public Market right now.
Oct 14 03:50:57 <jasta> there's a public market?
Oct 14 03:51:05 <muthu> public market?
Oct 14 03:51:14 <muthu> there's no public market yet
Oct 14 03:51:14 <gdsx> jasta: for devices
Oct 14 03:51:24 * ttuttle has a G1 and begs to differ.
Oct 14 03:51:31 <jasta> does ttuttle think he's in a google only channel?
Oct 14 03:51:32 <gdsx> jasta: so, for instance, the press folks who have devices can install stuff from Market
Oct 14 03:51:36 <muthu> yeah, but its not *public*
Oct 14 03:51:45 <jasta> yeah what defines that as public? :)
Oct 14 03:51:47 <ttuttle> Well, not *public*, but it's the one that's going to *be* public.
Oct 14 03:51:48 <gdsx> muthu: it is public.  It's not on the emulator
Oct 14 03:51:50 <jasta> if youre exclusive enough to have a device, it's public? :)
Oct 14 03:51:52 <ttuttle> It's not the Google market.
Oct 14 03:52:04 <ttuttle> There's an internal one for testing.  This is the real one.
Oct 14 03:52:18 <muthu> ttuttle: link?
Oct 14 03:52:26 <umdk1d3> ttuttle: do other apps like pictures appear to read from the card?
Oct 14 03:52:27 <ttuttle> muthu: I don't have one.  You need a device, I think.
Oct 14 03:52:31 <gdsx> muthu: it's only available from actual devices
Oct 14 03:52:31 <umdk1d3> muthu: EPIC   =D  rofl
Oct 14 03:52:35 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: Music works.
Oct 14 03:52:43 <muthu> gdsx: oh, so the link is not public
Oct 14 03:52:48 <jasta> hehe
Oct 14 03:52:54 <gdsx> muthu: there is no link; it's not HTTP
Oct 14 03:52:56 <jasta> these guys can't work out the definition of public :)
Oct 14 03:53:01 <muthu> haha
Oct 14 03:53:04 <umdk1d3> hmm its found mp4 and 3gp fine in the past
Oct 14 03:53:09 <muthu> publicly available for devices
Oct 14 03:53:10 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: Hrm.
Oct 14 03:53:16 <jasta> muthu: ...which are not :)
Oct 14 03:53:18 <gdsx> umdk1d3: can you play it with mplayer?
Oct 14 03:53:21 <ttuttle> muthu: The market is publicly available.  The devices to access it are not yet.
Oct 14 03:53:24 <ttuttle> muthu: ;-)
Oct 14 03:53:34 <jasta> ttuttle: so what's the host then?
Oct 14 03:53:37 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: What found it?
Oct 14 03:53:38 <ttuttle> jasta: I don't know.
Oct 14 03:53:44 <ttuttle> jasta: I tap "Market" and some apps show up.  That's it.
Oct 14 03:53:52 <umdk1d3> that video player app
Oct 14 03:53:58 <jasta> sure would love to have that address and do some nmapping ;)
Oct 14 03:54:00 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: What were you running it on?
Oct 14 03:54:13 <ttuttle> jasta: So, it's likely a Google server.
Oct 14 03:54:16 <ahaberlacho> nmapping?
Oct 14 03:54:19 <ttuttle> jasta: They're generally secure, AFAIK.
Oct 14 03:54:20 <gdsx> umdk1d3: err... wrong person :o)
Oct 14 03:54:24 <ahaberlacho> Yeah, it's standard Google infrastructure.
Oct 14 03:54:33 <ahaberlacho> Just nmap google.com and you'll get the same thing.
Oct 14 03:54:33 <muthu> how many apps in market now?
Oct 14 03:54:49 <ttuttle> muthu: /me probably shouldn't say yet.
Oct 14 03:54:53 <muthu> hehe
Oct 14 03:54:58 <ttuttle> muthu: But there are some of the ADC winners, and some other stuff.
Oct 14 03:55:07 <muthu> cool
Oct 14 03:55:12 <jasta> ahaberlacho: so how does it communicate?  do you know?
Oct 14 03:55:14 <muthu> open up the market, i'll put mobeegal in
Oct 14 03:55:30 <gdsx> jasta: TCP :o)
Oct 14 03:55:38 <jasta> gdsx: http?
Oct 14 03:55:46 <gdsx> I said above that it's not http
Oct 14 03:55:49 <jasta> it must be http.  it's google, they don't know any other protocol :)
Oct 14 03:56:04 <muthu> its https ;)
Oct 14 03:56:09 <jasta> lol, oh ;)
Oct 14 03:56:13 <gdsx> anyway, stuff to do
Oct 14 03:57:16 <ahaberlacho> Yeah, RPCs over HTTP/S
Oct 14 03:57:27 <jasta> not http, eh? :)
Oct 14 03:57:32 <ahaberlacho> No surprises.  It's a protocol we're pretty good at by now.  :)
Oct 14 03:57:45 <ahaberlacho> I'm not sure if it is all HTTP or all HTTPS.  There's probably some of each.
Oct 14 03:58:12 <muthu> its google protocol buffer
Oct 14 03:58:31 <jasta> i wonder how google's internal cloud looks
Oct 14 03:58:35 <jasta> that would be a really interesting thing to study
Oct 14 03:59:30 <ahaberlacho> Yes.  Yes it would.  :)
Oct 14 03:59:36 <ahaberlacho> Lots of moving parts.
Oct 14 03:59:50 <jasta> eh?  it breaks often? :)
Oct 14 03:59:52 * ahaberlacho goes to do some "real work" that he didn't get done earlier today.
Oct 14 04:00:03 <ttuttle> jasta: Computers, as a general rule, break often.
Oct 14 04:00:08 <ahaberlacho> Parts of it break all the time.
Oct 14 04:00:22 <romainguy> given the size of it that's kinda expected :))
Oct 14 04:00:54 <muthu> to think of backup, recovery etc., mind boggling
Oct 14 04:00:59 <jasta> i really have to say i'm tickled by how defensive you all get about Google :)
Oct 14 04:01:22 <ahaberlacho> So, my record computer uptime is just shy of two years.  So if you were to take 700 computers, chances are that two of them would be down per day.
Oct 14 04:01:40 <ahaberlacho> I'll let you scale however you want, but trust me: there's a lot of broken stuff at any given time.  :)
Oct 14 04:03:54 <muthu> hey android question
Oct 14 04:04:04 <muthu> need a horizontal scroll in a list item
Oct 14 04:04:19 <muthu> what's the best widget to use as a  list row?
Oct 14 04:04:31 <romainguy> depends on the data you want to display...
Oct 14 04:04:36 <muthu> buttons
Oct 14 04:04:47 <romainguy> try a gallery
Oct 14 04:04:53 <muthu> oomph
Oct 14 04:04:59 <muthu> yeah, but the focus issues is getting me
Oct 14 04:05:06 <muthu> gallery seems to be the best fit
Oct 14 04:05:11 <romainguy> then create your own widget
Oct 14 04:05:23 <muthu> i'm going to use a linear layout
Oct 14 04:05:30 <muthu> and just add buttons with a scroll
Oct 14 04:05:43 <romainguy> then why do you ask? :))
Oct 14 04:05:58 <romainguy> we had the exact same discussion not long ago :p
Oct 14 04:06:02 <muthu> because supposedly you are the android gods ;)
Oct 14 04:06:09 <muthu> hehe
Oct 14 04:06:31 <muthu> since i ventured into this custom component thing
Oct 14 04:06:34 <ahaberlacho> romainguy is the ListView god.  :)
Oct 14 04:06:45 <muthu> my productivity has crashed like wall st
Oct 14 04:07:07 <muthu> now there's a lot of toxic widgets that needs to be rescued
Oct 14 04:07:22 <muthu> ListView needs some work
Oct 14 04:07:30 <muthu> its kinda dumb when you put custom components
Oct 14 04:07:44 <muthu> stealing focus et al
Oct 14 04:08:17 <muthu> is it selected and focused?
Oct 14 04:08:23 <muthu> or focused and selected?
Oct 14 04:09:36 <muthu> have discovered that by butchering the widgets by mashing them together you get some cool weird widgets
Oct 14 04:10:37 <romainguy> muthu: its kinda dumb when you put custom components < or you don't understand it
Oct 14 04:11:03 <muthu> romainguy: agree, my understanding is limited
Oct 14 04:11:08 <muthu> the docs are not very clear
Oct 14 04:11:13 <romainguy> it's pretty simple really
Oct 14 04:11:17 <romainguy> a list item can have focus
Oct 14 04:11:20 <romainguy> or can be selectable
Oct 14 04:11:23 <romainguy> but not both
Oct 14 04:11:46 <muthu> oh ok
Oct 14 04:11:47 <ttuttle> romainguy: Greetings.
Oct 14 04:12:15 <muthu> have a gallery as a list item
Oct 14 04:12:34 <muthu> then why the gallery items are not selected?
Oct 14 04:12:54 <jasta> i wonder if this 220k /system/etc/NOTICE.html file is going to be in the final build :)
Oct 14 04:12:58 <jasta> hehe
Oct 14 04:13:22 <ttuttle> jasta: What is it?
Oct 14 04:13:42 <unix_infidel> jasta: also makes me wonder how updates are going to be handed out...
Oct 14 04:13:52 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: Magic.
Oct 14 04:14:16 <jasta> ttuttle: just a stupid legal agreement
Oct 14 04:14:21 <ttuttle> jasta: Oh.
Oct 14 04:14:30 <ttuttle> jasta: I know what it's there for, I think.
Oct 14 04:14:30 <jasta> a big stinkin waste of 220k i say
Oct 14 04:14:37 <ttuttle> jasta: Is it popped up in the setup wizard?
Oct 14 04:14:43 <ttuttle> jasta: Maybe they should at least gzip it?
Oct 14 04:14:44 <jasta> what setup wizard?
Oct 14 04:14:54 <unix_infidel> ttuttle: i think it involes larry and sergey skating around the earth so fast that it reverses time until 24 hours before RTM.
Oct 14 04:17:04 <muthu> how can i make the entire toggle button take the selection color (green in this case)?
Oct 14 04:17:17 <muthu> click a toggle, if its selected, turn green
Oct 14 04:17:30 <romainguy> muthu: change it's background drawable to use your own images
Oct 14 04:17:41 <muthu> am trying to avoid using anything my own
Oct 14 04:17:55 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: heh
Oct 14 04:17:55 <muthu> can i get the toggle's selection as a resource?
Oct 14 04:18:12 <muthu> its not public..
Oct 14 04:18:16 <romainguy> muthu: then you can't make it green
Oct 14 04:18:20 <muthu> hehe
Oct 14 04:18:29 <muthu> hmm.. ok, i'll put my own color
Oct 14 04:19:30 <muthu> unselected toggle will be red, selected will be green.. yoooohooo
Oct 14 04:28:09 <muthu> what you folks think of uploading the app to market without testing it on G1?
Oct 14 04:28:54 <ttuttle> muthu: I think you should test it.
Oct 14 04:29:11 <muthu> isn't the emulator close enough?
Oct 14 04:29:15 <ttuttle> muthu: Eh.
Oct 14 04:29:26 <romainguy> muthu: the problem is the way some apps are designed
Oct 14 04:29:48 <romainguy> for instance some apps are badly designed for landscape even though the G1 requires landscape to have access to the keyboard
Oct 14 04:30:06 <romainguy> or for instance some apps do not stop the GPS correctly, resulting in bad battery performance
Oct 14 04:30:08 <romainguy> etc.
Oct 14 04:30:16 <muthu> got it
Oct 14 04:30:18 <romainguy> there are also apps who tried to make smaller widgets than the default ones
Oct 14 04:30:29 <muthu> haha
Oct 14 04:30:29 <romainguy> and the widgets are thus too small and very annoying to touch
Oct 14 04:30:48 <muthu> what's the approximate scale?
Oct 14 04:30:55 <muthu> is it like 0.6
Oct 14 04:31:06 <muthu> i'm using 0.66 now in emu
Oct 14 04:31:11 <ttuttle> muthu: What does it do?
Oct 14 04:31:20 <muthu> scale it to smaller G1 size
Oct 14 04:31:33 <ttuttle> muthu: No, I mean what does your app do?
Oct 14 04:31:51 <muthu> http://mobeegal.in
Oct 14 04:31:59 <muthu> we do google ;)
Oct 14 04:32:17 <taaz> romainguy: there should be a guidelines doc with a pre-release checklist like that
Oct 14 04:33:18 <muthu> don't think an app would completely fail to start, if its been tested well in emu
Oct 14 04:35:11 <muthu> why do we have this light theme?
Oct 14 04:35:27 <muthu> its never been supported
Oct 14 04:35:34 <muthu> still its there..
Oct 14 04:35:54 <plusminus_> muthu: yes some apps do weird things
Oct 14 04:36:06 <ttuttle> muthu: I could probably give it a try and let you know if it works decently.
Oct 14 04:36:13 <muthu> sure
Oct 14 04:36:15 <plusminus_> s.o. tested an app of mine and it asked for probably every possible Permisson I have ever seen !
Oct 14 04:36:28 <gambler> landscape access requiring keyboard seems really device specific...
Oct 14 04:36:41 <muthu> ttuttle: thx, i'll let you know
Oct 14 04:36:44 <ttuttle> gambler: So, landscape is just generally a good idea.
Oct 14 04:36:49 <ttuttle> gambler: Most devices do not have square screens.
Oct 14 04:36:52 <plusminus_> almost like the CAN_DESTROY_DEVICE - permission
Oct 14 04:36:56 <tomgibara> gambler: actually it's keyboard requires landscape
Oct 14 04:37:03 <romainguy> gambler: that's because there's no soft keyboard yet
Oct 14 04:37:19 <plusminus_> romainguy: 'Not yet' ?
Oct 14 04:37:34 <romainguy> plusminus_: we are writing a mobile OS
Oct 14 04:37:41 <gambler> hrm
Oct 14 04:37:42 <romainguy> our goal is to support as many configurations as possible
Oct 14 04:37:45 <ahaberlacho> ZOMG!!1! FEATURE L33K!
Oct 14 04:37:53 <romainguy> including devices with no keyboards... or with only 12 keys... etc.
Oct 14 04:37:55 <tomgibara> All devices will have device specific characteristics
Oct 14 04:38:02 <romainguy> tomgibara: :))
Oct 14 04:38:03 <plusminus_> ;) I was wondering since m3 why there is no sw keyboard
Oct 14 04:38:04 <ttuttle> ahaberlacho: Android 2.0 is going to have mind control robots!  Better not tell #andro... $#%^@$%^@#$%#$% NO CARRIER
Oct 14 04:38:18 <plusminus_> :D
Oct 14 04:38:19 <muthu> woah!
Oct 14 04:38:39 * ahaberlacho wonders how many people here have actually had a session end in NO CARRIER.
Oct 14 04:38:55 <ttuttle> ahaberlacho: I have.  I used to have <shame>AOL</shame>.
Oct 14 04:39:21 <ahaberlacho> <-- CompuServe.  Back when they charged different rates for 300 and 1200/2400 baud.
Oct 14 04:39:23 <muthu> plusminus_: so the device, asking for new permissions?
Oct 14 04:40:39 <ttuttle> ahaberlacho: wow
Oct 14 04:40:51 <muthu> a bug report direct from G1 wold be nice
Oct 14 04:45:11 <plusminus_> muthu: See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSOiQsYLrEA
Oct 14 04:45:25 * muthu watching
Oct 14 04:46:14 <plusminus_> that is definitely(!) not what the AndroidManifest says @lol
Oct 14 04:46:46 <plusminus_> like SMS , Calls, Systools...
Oct 14 04:47:26 <muthu> arggh.. flash player broken
Oct 14 04:47:45 <muthu> no idea what broke it
Oct 14 04:48:37 <ttuttle> muthu: /me hates Flash player.
Oct 14 04:48:50 <muthu> me too
Oct 14 04:49:11 <plusminus_> i love it.. if it works as it should ;)
Oct 14 04:49:27 <ttuttle> plusminus_: So, I love Microsoft when they write stable software that does what I want.
Oct 14 04:50:08 <plusminus_> :P I'm totally fine with vista (except the search-mechanism is totally crap, like always)
Oct 14 04:51:27 <plusminus_> awesome, I found a street in the OSM-Data that is called "FIXME, FIXME"
Oct 14 04:52:10 <ttuttle> Damnit, the video player is crapping out on my file.
Oct 14 04:52:25 * ttuttle wants, just for ONCE, an embedded device where the video player actually plays any valid file.
Oct 14 04:52:48 <muthu> ttuttle: there's a lot of players working on such mediaplayer for android
Oct 14 04:53:12 <muthu> we'll see some exciting media players soon
Oct 14 04:53:16 <ttuttle> muthu: Yeah, but they're all going to use the same mediaplayer class.
Oct 14 04:53:25 <muthu> might not
Oct 14 04:53:33 <ttuttle> muthu: nah, they'd have to implement it in java.
Oct 14 04:54:05 <muthu> not sure, but heard they are workin g on it
Oct 14 04:54:12 <ttuttle> who?
Oct 14 04:54:15 <muthu> a few
Oct 14 04:54:35 <muthu> in forums etc.,
Oct 14 04:54:39 <muthu> remember seeing it
Oct 14 04:54:41 <ttuttle> hmm
Oct 14 05:05:40 <muthu> android is changing peoples life
Oct 14 05:08:14 <unix_infidel> wow, if the latest spyshots are true, the new macbooks look fugly.
Oct 14 05:09:23 <muthu> apple has only one way to go now
Oct 14 05:12:00 <summatusmentis> unix_infidel: I disagree, I like the latest spyshots much better than my current white plastic macbook
Oct 14 05:19:07 <Adamant> unix_infidel: they look pretty close to a MBP with a MB kb
Oct 14 05:40:03 <jasta> ttuttle: well, you'd need to port mplayer then :)
Oct 14 06:10:07 <living_sword> is there an equivalent api for Java2D animations ?
Oct 14 06:11:56 <living_sword> or do we use OpenGL for 2D animations ?
Oct 14 06:13:40 <romainguy> living_sword: it's called SGL or Skia
Oct 14 06:13:47 <romainguy> you use it with a Canvas object
Oct 14 06:19:17 <living_sword> romainguy: thanx, but nothing about SGL in the docs.
Oct 14 06:27:21 <living_sword> think i got it. is it mentioned at android.graphics ?
Oct 14 06:32:50 <living_sword> romainguy: some classes dont have comments, should i assume these classes are not stable ?
Oct 14 06:33:13 <MrSnowflake> basically, yes!
Oct 14 06:34:43 <living_sword> thanx
Oct 14 06:36:21 <MrSnowflake> np, but no documentation doesn't mean you _can't_ use it!
Oct 14 06:36:31 <MrSnowflake> just take in to account it could be unstable
Oct 14 06:36:53 <living_sword> ok
Oct 14 06:38:05 <muthu> lost count of all these disclaimers
Oct 14 06:38:10 <muthu> no docs but can use it
Oct 14 06:38:20 <muthu> public but will be unstable
Oct 14 06:38:27 <muthu> private but might be made public
Oct 14 06:38:31 <muthu> undocumented, but stable
Oct 14 06:38:37 <muthu> stable, but deprecated
Oct 14 06:38:40 <muthu> ...
Oct 14 06:38:58 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 14 06:39:03 <muthu> :)
Oct 14 06:40:50 <tomgibara> That's rubbish
Oct 14 06:52:18 <rjaym> this is sort of off-topic, does anyone know if I can get a g1 pre-ordered as a non-existing t-mobile customer if I get a junky phone/plan and then order the g1?
Oct 14 06:53:52 <jasta> rjaym: the pre-orders i don't even think are still open.  dude, the thing comes to retail stores in like a week
Oct 14 06:54:18 <rjaym> ya, but it seems like there won't be any on day one
Oct 14 06:54:26 <jasta> yes there will be lots
Oct 14 06:54:29 <rjaym> people will line up like they did for the iphone 3g
Oct 14 06:54:37 <jasta> well then get in line with them
Oct 14 06:54:47 <rjaym> and I sorta need a phone for work, and mine just broke so I'm in this wierd situation
Oct 14 06:55:08 <rjaym> ya just thinking maybe I could beat the line by buying a junky 50$ phone then pre-ordering
Oct 14 06:55:53 <tomgibara> Sorry to be so short, but it's all I had time to type: Google engineers have said nothing about undocumented being unstable, nor (afaik) is any part of the API deprecated
Oct 14 06:56:46 <muthu> oh ok
Oct 14 06:56:59 <muthu> now we know what you meant
Oct 14 06:57:26 <muthu> but if that's what you meant, then its stupid
Oct 14 06:59:22 <MrSnowflake> tomgibara: I remember reading somewhere on some google site, that when come api wasn't documented, it wasn't supposed to be used.
Oct 14 06:59:33 <tomgibara> I agree that there have been many points of 'unclarity' from the first preview release to the 1.0 SDK (excacerbated by the NDA), but the position on 1.0 seems clear
Oct 14 07:01:11 <tomgibara> MrSnowflake: Yes, there were entire tranches of the API which were completely undocumented, and then removed, but that was in the earliest (most raw) releases.
Oct 14 07:01:45 <MrSnowflake> ok
Oct 14 07:01:59 <MrSnowflake> yet SoundPool is undocumented and seems to be very buggy
Oct 14 07:02:10 <MrSnowflake> There's a pattern!!! ;-
Oct 14 07:02:12 <MrSnowflake> *;)
Oct 14 07:02:57 <tomgibara> If they weren't committing to supporting the api (buggy or not), they wouldn't have left it in 1.0
Oct 14 07:04:10 <MrSnowflake> Yes I know the SoundPool will stay, but it is really buggy and not documented, so non-documented code seems to be not really trusthworthy
Oct 14 07:07:23 <tomgibara> Doesn't prove much, MediaPlayer is documented and that's buggy
Oct 14 07:14:09 <MrSnowflake> Yeah, but that's the other way around.
Oct 14 07:14:25 <MrSnowflake> Any way, you are right.
Oct 14 07:14:31 <gdsx> tomgibara, MrSnowflake: If an API is hidden (undocumented), it is liable to change
Oct 14 07:14:40 <gdsx> that doesn't mean it _will_ change, but it might
Oct 14 07:14:51 <MrSnowflake> Is anything known about a r2 release with the release of the G1?
Oct 14 07:15:06 <gdsx> APIs that are documented will, in all foreseeable cases, be supported for a long time
Oct 14 07:15:07 <MrSnowflake> hmm, strange v1 api...
Oct 14 07:15:30 <MrSnowflake> I thought the V1.0 api was suposed to be final
Oct 14 07:15:58 <tomgibara> gdsx: I was using the term undocumented in the sense that it appears in the list of documented classes, but has no comments associated with it.
Oct 14 07:16:24 <gdsx> tomgibara: do you have an example?
Oct 14 07:17:07 <tomgibara> gdsx: MrSnowflake gave the example of SoundPool
Oct 14 07:17:30 <gdsx> MrSnowflake: I'm not sure about that.  The goal is that, whatever 1.0 is, we won't break compatibility with applications using published 1.0 APIs for a very long time (if ever)
Oct 14 07:18:21 <gdsx> tomgibara: dunno, I haven't run across it
Oct 14 07:18:58 <MrSnowflake> gdsx: ok, so if I write an app now, using SoundPool (ie), it will work on say v1.0r9?
Oct 14 07:19:03 <gdsx> tomgibara: I would say that if you see something that's not documented, ask romainguy.  But likely, if there's not documentation, you should avoid using it if you want to guarantee that your app keeps working when APIs are updated
Oct 14 07:19:11 <MrSnowflake> eventough the soundpool api changed?
Oct 14 07:19:28 <gdsx> MrSnowflake: I don't know, but if soundpool isn't documented, I would probably bet against it
Oct 14 07:19:37 <tomgibara> gdsx: I wasn't worrying about lack of documentation :) It was MrSnowflake
Oct 14 07:19:43 <gdsx> MrSnowflake: I'm not really the best person to talk to about this stuff though, unfortunately
Oct 14 07:19:52 <gdsx> tomgibara: I know.  I'm saying you might want to start worrying
Oct 14 07:20:00 <MrSnowflake> :D
Oct 14 07:20:17 <tomgibara> gdsx: afaik, SoundPool is the only undocumented class in the entire API (I might be wrong though)
Oct 14 07:20:35 <tomgibara> It's certainly the only one I've encountered, and I've used most of them
Oct 14 07:20:59 <MrSnowflake> tomgibara: that's good news then.
Oct 14 07:21:19 <gdsx> tomgibara: ask romainguy, then; he would know
Oct 14 07:26:51 <tomgibara> Actually one example of a class which is entirely undocumented is EGL10, its a good counterexample, because its clearly a core part of the API - presumably is wasn't documented because it's known
Oct 14 07:29:39 <MrSnowflake> Actually there are a lot of undocumented classes.
Oct 14 07:43:27 <tomgibara> MrSnowflake: In the android packages?
Oct 14 07:43:41 <gdsx> tomgibara: not necessarily.  There's no problem with breaking API compatibility internally, because we can fix the API users without anyone finding out
Oct 14 07:44:25 <gdsx> tomgibara: if an external app uses a non-stable API, there's some likelihood that the app will break when the API changes out from under it
Oct 14 07:44:55 <tomgibara> gdsx: I understand that, I'm only referring to the published APIs in this instance
Oct 14 07:45:08 <gdsx> ok, anyway, bed calls.  g'night :o)
Oct 14 07:45:16 <tomgibara> gn
Oct 14 07:50:11 <MrSnowflake> gn
Oct 14 07:50:51 <MrSnowflake> tomgibara: oh the android package, dunno about that.
Oct 14 09:04:07 <muthu> rain rain
Oct 14 09:05:05 <MrSnowflake> not here I believe
Oct 14 09:05:22 <muthu> pouring in chennai
Oct 14 09:05:32 <muthu> nothing beats rain watching :)
Oct 14 09:05:41 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 14 09:05:59 <MrSnowflake> I like thunderstorms, they are awsome to watch :)
Oct 14 09:06:14 <muthu> ha, bit scary
Oct 14 09:06:29 <muthu> especially texas, oklahoma
Oct 14 09:06:55 <MrSnowflake> Hehe yeah, but here in the EU it's pretty safe :)
Oct 14 09:07:08 <muthu> yeah, in india too
Oct 14 09:07:35 <muthu> MrSnowflake: how's your app coming along?
Oct 14 09:09:16 <MrSnowflake> it's on googlecode: snowservices.googlecode.com
Oct 14 09:09:24 <MrSnowflake> Yesterday I was working on DroidGaming
Oct 14 09:09:37 <muthu> snowservices.. hmm
Oct 14 09:09:38 <muthu> checking
Oct 14 09:09:55 <muthu> what it do?
Oct 14 09:10:41 <MrSnowflake> It's a little framework which should make it more easy to develop games using the SurfaceView
Oct 14 09:10:49 <muthu> cool
Oct 14 09:11:07 <MrSnowflake> It's starts a seperate thread and gives you a listener which you should implement to make the game
Oct 14 09:11:15 <MrSnowflake> muthu: I hope :)
Oct 14 09:11:19 <muthu> interesting
Oct 14 09:11:53 <muthu> do you follow java event model?
Oct 14 09:11:55 <MrSnowflake> It's something like Ogro only 1/1000000*10E+23 in size :)
Oct 14 09:12:06 <MrSnowflake> dunno
Oct 14 09:12:11 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 14 09:12:12 <muthu> ok
Oct 14 09:12:23 <muthu> who knows?-)
Oct 14 09:12:54 <MrSnowflake> what's the java event model?
Oct 14 09:13:05 <MrSnowflake> like with the listener interfaces and such? :/
Oct 14 09:13:06 <muthu> java.event package
Oct 14 09:13:09 <muthu> yeah
Oct 14 09:13:14 <muthu> but android seems to avoid that
Oct 14 09:15:09 <MrSnowflake> java.awt.event?
Oct 14 09:15:18 <muthu> yup
Oct 14 09:15:34 <MrSnowflake> then obviously I'm not using it :)
Oct 14 09:16:01 <MrSnowflake> But it has some resemblance I guess. Yet it only has 3 (now 4) methods in the listener
Oct 14 09:16:33 <muthu> right.. the only thing is maintaining the listeners
Oct 14 09:16:44 <MrSnowflake> hehe yeah.. :)
Oct 14 09:16:49 <muthu> and making sure the events are delivered right
Oct 14 09:17:04 <muthu> the java sdk had some support for it
Oct 14 09:17:11 <muthu> not sure if android has built in like that
Oct 14 09:17:13 <MrSnowflake> didn't know.
Oct 14 09:19:37 <MrSnowflake> seeing KeyEvent in Android has Object as its super, I guess android doesn't really do this
Oct 14 09:19:46 <muthu> yup
Oct 14 09:20:01 <muthu> so we need to cook up our own
Oct 14 09:20:08 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 14 09:20:14 <muthu> :(
Oct 14 09:20:17 <muthu> hehe
Oct 14 09:20:36 <muthu> why android doesn't include event support is a mystery
Oct 14 09:21:04 <MrSnowflake> one of the many
Oct 14 09:21:11 <muthu> true
Oct 14 09:24:03 <MrSnowflake> where can I find info about the event delivery stuff you said? (that is where in the docs?)
Oct 14 09:24:17 <muthu> you mean java sdk?
Oct 14 09:24:56 <MrSnowflake> yes
Oct 14 09:25:08 <muthu> let me check
Oct 14 09:25:13 <MrSnowflake> thanks!
Oct 14 09:27:19 <muthu> its in java tutorial in sun website
Oct 14 09:27:27 <muthu> swing/uiswing/events/index.html
Oct 14 09:27:48 <MrSnowflake> ok thanks, but I almost use the same system as that
Oct 14 09:28:04 <muthu> javapassion.com
Oct 14 09:28:10 <muthu> another resource
Oct 14 09:28:56 <MrSnowflake> thanks, I'll have a look
Oct 14 09:29:02 <muthu> guess it comes with swing docs
Oct 14 09:29:20 <muthu> haven't looked it for a while.. but am sure its bundled with jdk docs
Oct 14 09:58:13 <MrSnowflake> I there a way in eclipse to define somekind of #regions like it's possible in Visual Studio
Oct 14 09:58:56 <MrSnowflake> *Is
Oct 14 10:22:38 <MrSnowflake> What java code would be faster? concerning an ArrayList: using the iterator with a while(iterator.hasnext)
Oct 14 10:22:48 <MrSnowflake> of for(int i = 0; i < arraList.size(); ++i)?
Oct 14 10:41:20 <MrSnowflake> k, for the record, the iterator seems to be __BLAZING__ fast
Oct 14 10:41:33 <muthu> really?
Oct 14 10:41:47 <muthu> oh yeah.. its an arraylist
Oct 14 10:41:50 <MrSnowflake> ja
Oct 14 10:41:54 <MrSnowflake> uh hehe yes :)
Oct 14 10:42:26 <muthu> you're reading performance tips & tricks, he? ;)
Oct 14 10:43:05 <MrSnowflake> no, I was just wondering and wrote my own test app :)
Oct 14 10:43:35 <muthu> ya, performance needs to be kept in mind
Oct 14 10:43:45 <MrSnowflake> indeed
Oct 14 10:43:57 <MrSnowflake> I'm rewriting my code to be more event oriented
Oct 14 10:44:04 <muthu> nice
Oct 14 10:44:15 <MrSnowflake> there is an EventObject in the docs
Oct 14 10:44:20 <MrSnowflake> So I'm using that
Oct 14 10:44:27 <muthu> in android?
Oct 14 10:44:29 <MrSnowflake> yes
Oct 14 10:44:34 <MrSnowflake> java.util.EventObejct
Oct 14 10:44:38 <muthu> ha
Oct 14 10:44:41 <muthu> that's the one
Oct 14 10:44:50 <muthu> ok, its in java.util
Oct 14 10:45:08 <MrSnowflake> But as I need to iterate through my listeners, it have to find the quickest way :)
Oct 14 10:45:23 <muthu> look in util
Oct 14 10:45:30 <muthu> there will be more event helpers
Oct 14 10:45:47 <muthu> actually look in java src
Oct 14 10:45:53 <muthu> where they maintain the listeners
Oct 14 10:46:00 <muthu> that's the quickest way
Oct 14 10:47:05 <MrSnowflake> ok, I'll try it out
Oct 14 10:49:53 <MrSnowflake> Ok, the iterator is actually a lot slower :)
Oct 14 10:50:02 <muthu> hehe
Oct 14 10:50:09 <MrSnowflake> found an error in my code :)
Oct 14 10:50:21 <muthu> lol
Oct 14 10:53:39 <pjv> MrSnowflake: you wanna use something like for(Item item: arraList){}, which is the default way since java 1.5, but you'll need to use an ArrayList<Item>(whats tha called again? generics??)
Oct 14 10:54:05 <muthu> generics, yup
Oct 14 10:54:30 <MrSnowflake> pjv: Thanks, but in the Android docs the use of the extended loop is said to be slow with an ArrayList
Oct 14 10:54:59 <pjv> hmm
Oct 14 10:58:06 <MrSnowflake> pjv: http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/performance.html#foreach
Oct 14 11:02:01 <pjv> I remember reading this
Oct 14 11:02:20 <pjv> sounds like something a compiler should optimize
Oct 14 11:02:55 <pjv> anyhow, the balance still tips to the enhanced for loop for me because it's very readable, while the others are faster
Oct 14 11:03:29 <pjv> the clue is to only optimize where it would make a difference, i.e. in a very important and frequent loop
Oct 14 11:03:56 <pjv> not sure if that's the case for you, MrSnowflake
Oct 14 11:05:54 <muthu> pjv: right, optimize only if required
Oct 14 11:06:36 <MrSnowflake> I know optimizing should only be done in the most preformance critical situations
Oct 14 11:06:48 <MrSnowflake> And my situation is the most preformance critical possible :D
Oct 14 12:19:12 <tomgibara> MrSnowflake: If it's extremely performance sensitive consider: using an array or allowing only one listener
Oct 14 12:33:13 <MrSnowflake> tomgibara: Thanks, I thought about both. 1 listener seems to few. But an array could probably do, as the game state won't change 10times a sec, so creating and destroying an array could be viable
Oct 14 12:34:06 <tomgibara> Why create and destroy the array?
Oct 14 12:34:07 <MrSnowflake> Maybe if I make 3 dispatcher classes, using the 3 methods, the user can choose themselfs which strategy to use
Oct 14 12:34:21 <MrSnowflake> because they can remove the listeners too?!
Oct 14 12:35:52 <tomgibara> If you grow the array as necessary, and then keep a count of the number of listeners, the app should typically reach a steady state quickly, where you don't need to do any allocations in response to listener removal.
Oct 14 12:36:57 <tomgibara> A dispatcher class might be a good model, but remember that it adds overhead to every strategy
Oct 14 12:37:49 <MrSnowflake> If I want to grow the array, I need to destoy it (implicitly)
Oct 14 12:38:51 <tomgibara> Only if you want to store more listeners than your array has elements, will you need to grow the array.
Oct 14 12:39:35 <MrSnowflake> ofcourse
Oct 14 12:41:50 <living_sword> is the power consumption more with 2D on Canvas or 2D on OpenGL ?
Oct 14 12:42:34 <tomgibara> living_sword: Doing what? :)
Oct 14 12:42:40 <erus`> depends how often your re-drawing
Oct 14 12:43:28 <living_sword> tomgibara: custom views
Oct 14 12:44:10 <MrSnowflake> living_sword: I suppose 2D canvas, as you don't (ever) need the 3d hardware.
Oct 14 12:44:18 <MrSnowflake> Yet, Canvas isn't hw accellerated
Oct 14 12:44:50 <living_sword> but with OpenGL I bypass the View hierarchy which lends speed.
Oct 14 12:45:26 <MrSnowflake> living_sword: The same can be achived by using a SurfaceView
Oct 14 12:45:33 <tomgibara> living_sword: You can bypass the View hierarchy with a SurfaceView (which is what I assumed you were talking about)
Oct 14 12:46:48 <MrSnowflake> tomgibara: Don't all View's (TextView, ...) use a SurfaceView internally? or are they all software drawn (in draw())
Oct 14 12:47:31 <living_sword> hmm..im going through LunarLander, I believe SurfaceView is halfway between Canvas and OpenGL.
Oct 14 12:48:09 <MrSnowflake> SurfaceView is supposed to be somewhat HW accellerated
Oct 14 12:49:20 <tomgibara> There is (I assume) a Surface onto which all Views render, I doubt if that is provided by a SurfaceView.
Oct 14 12:50:08 <living_sword> setting aside the speed issue, will a SurfaceView eat more power than a Canvas ?
Oct 14 12:50:23 <MrSnowflake> tomgibara: I believe the SurfaceView allows access to the Surface you describe
Oct 14 12:50:56 <MrSnowflake> tomgibara: be it in a confined region
Oct 14 12:51:10 <tomgibara> It does, but the idea that the framework is rendering views onto a view by default is silly
Oct 14 12:51:39 <tomgibara> A surface is a low-level (poss. hardware supported) buffer of pixel data
Oct 14 12:52:01 <tomgibara> A SurfaceView is a widget
Oct 14 12:52:37 <MrSnowflake> Yeah, I know but the surfaceview gives you access to the surface, doesn't it?
Oct 14 12:52:58 <MrSnowflake> k, nvrmnd
Oct 14 12:53:05 <MrSnowflake> missed you 1ste post
Oct 14 12:53:19 <tomgibara> Yes :) All I'm drawing attention to is that you said "Don't all View's (TextView, ...) use a SurfaceView internally?" - no they don't
Oct 14 12:53:54 <MrSnowflake> k, slipup of words :) sorry :)
Oct 14 12:54:00 <tomgibara> np :)
Oct 14 12:56:28 <MrSnowflake> living_sword: I don't know any of such, I suppose a Surface would be more power efficient, as it _could_ use dma, which, as I assume, uses less power
Oct 14 12:56:50 <tomgibara> I suspect it's going to depend on what you're rendering
Oct 14 12:56:56 <MrSnowflake> living_sword: But those are only speculations on my part. And I'm no hardware guru by anymeans!
Oct 14 12:58:42 <living_sword> some custom views. I guess i'll choose Canvas, unless theres compelling evidence not to. :)
Oct 14 13:00:21 <MrSnowflake> living_sword: I think that's a good idea for custom Views. For games that would be different
Oct 14 13:01:02 <living_sword> thanks for your opinions.
Oct 14 13:01:12 <MrSnowflake> np
Oct 14 13:53:17 <plusminus_> Mornin :)
Oct 14 13:55:47 <plusminus_> Thanks everyone: http://www.anddev.org/andnav_-_how_much_would_you_spend-t3146.html
Oct 14 13:56:12 <MrSnowflake> lo +-
Oct 14 13:57:21 <MrSnowflake> what's the difference between realtime navigation and the one andnav uses?
Oct 14 13:59:52 <plusminus_> the version of andnav that will be out on 22nd won't conatin realtime nav, because of the licensing issues.
Oct 14 14:00:11 <plusminus_> (realtime nav is what you know from like TomTom)
Oct 14 14:00:24 <plusminus_> 'AndNav2' will do that
Oct 14 14:00:42 <tethridge> what map service will you use?
Oct 14 14:00:49 <tethridge> for andnav2?
Oct 14 14:00:53 <plusminus_> but I probably won't get that out until 22nd, especially as realtime nav requires some testing ;)
Oct 14 14:01:02 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 14 14:01:13 <MrSnowflake> I'm able to test if you'd like :)
Oct 14 14:01:31 <plusminus_> tethridge: AndNav1 --> GoogleMaps ; AndNav2 --> OpenStreetMaps
Oct 14 14:01:37 <plusminus_> MrSnowflake: also a G1 ?
Oct 14 14:01:45 <MrSnowflake> Oh you mean real device :)
Oct 14 14:01:50 <plusminus_> yeah
Oct 14 14:01:56 <MrSnowflake> hehe ofcourse stupid of me.. :)
Oct 14 14:02:42 <plusminus_> it works fine in the emulator, but some guys(2) tested it on a G1 and there were big problems getting GPS-position...
Oct 14 14:02:55 <plusminus_> what is kinda trivial o_O
Oct 14 14:03:00 <MrSnowflake> Problem with openstreet maps is, there are very few roads in belgium
Oct 14 14:03:12 <plusminus_> and I have no ida why :'(
Oct 14 14:03:20 <MrSnowflake> strange
Oct 14 14:03:36 <MrSnowflake> prob some small thingy you didn't do according to Androids likings :)
Oct 14 14:04:19 <plusminus_> If you rode a route once, the second time AndNav2 will probably contain the route :) Its self-improving (better to say OSM will get that route (anonymously) and put it to their database, which I build upon))
Oct 14 14:04:56 <MrSnowflake> Oh, I really like that feature! Especially if we could name the streets. I would actively use such a feat
Oct 14 14:05:04 <MrSnowflake> (yeah I'm a sucker :D )
Oct 14 14:05:15 <plusminus_> Hm... while driving ;)
Oct 14 14:05:52 <MrSnowflake> It could detect a new street and ask you to stop to enter the name and number you currently at
Oct 14 14:06:10 <plusminus_> the user will have the possibility to choose a seperate osm-account (not the common andnav one) which he then can modify later on (on the osm/website).
Oct 14 14:06:33 <plusminus_> (... modify the route driven)
Oct 14 14:07:16 <ttuttle> What's AndNav?
Oct 14 14:07:50 <tethridge> plusminus_, is the g1 going to be able to use the gps for navigation based on your initial testing?
Oct 14 14:08:19 <tethridge> I heard that the iphone didn't work that well as a replacement for a tom-tom or garmin gps
Oct 14 14:08:37 <tethridge> I've heard of devs trying to build the same thing you're working on for the iphone
Oct 14 14:08:47 <plusminus_> doesn't the iiphone completely disallow navigation or sth ??
Oct 14 14:08:56 <ttuttle> plusminus_: Yep.
Oct 14 14:09:07 <plusminus_> http://andnav.org
Oct 14 14:09:10 <ttuttle> plusminus_: They want to sell their own navigation software, so you can't write any.  Lovely, isn't it?
Oct 14 14:09:15 <tethridge> I'm not sure of the details.  I thought I read that tom-tom was looking at creating a version for it
Oct 14 14:09:46 <tethridge> plusminus_, so does the g1 hardware work for your app?
Oct 14 14:09:57 <plusminus_> tom-tom probably will, but it will be much more expensive and very probably require continouous map-pack updates
Oct 14 14:10:11 <plusminus_> tethridge: got no G1 but in the emulator it works fine
Oct 14 14:10:36 <tethridge> why don't you get some of these fine google engineers to try it out now?
Oct 14 14:10:37 <tethridge> :-)
Oct 14 14:11:15 <MrSnowflake> plusminus: but your nav thingy always requires internet access
Oct 14 14:11:30 <plusminus_> hm .. yes it does
Oct 14 14:11:35 <plusminus_> for maptiles
Oct 14 14:11:41 <plusminus_> (but they get cached)
Oct 14 14:11:47 <ttuttle> Wow, looks cool.
Oct 14 14:11:48 <plusminus_> and at least once for the route itself
Oct 14 14:12:04 <plusminus_> ttuttle: what you just saw is illegal ;)
Oct 14 14:12:10 <ttuttle> plusminus_: What?
Oct 14 14:12:20 <plusminus_> not allowed by the GoogleMaps ToS
Oct 14 14:12:26 <ttuttle> plusminus_: Oh, that's lame. :-(
Oct 14 14:12:30 <plusminus_> so I had to switch to OSM
Oct 14 14:12:34 <ttuttle> plusminus_: Probably a liability issue.
Oct 14 14:12:42 <MrSnowflake> That's the plus of tomtom: when driving abroad (happens a lot if you live in Belgium) you don't have to pay hard cache :)
Oct 14 14:12:59 <ttuttle> MrSnowflake: ba-da-boom
Oct 14 14:13:45 <plusminus_> MrSnowflake: you could set the cache to 1GB :-P
Oct 14 14:14:03 <plusminus_> so you need to browse just once and have the tiles 'forever'
Oct 14 14:14:27 <MrSnowflake> I just saw you can download xml files from osm, suppose you could optionally use them?
Oct 14 14:14:28 <plusminus_> there always are tradeoffs for thin-clients like andnav
Oct 14 14:14:41 <plusminus_> it will be just about 1Mb in size
Oct 14 14:15:04 <MrSnowflake> In the states such a thing will prob work, as you don't have to roam between states (As is understand)
Oct 14 14:15:10 <MrSnowflake> *I
Oct 14 14:15:26 <plusminus_> that would pump it up to hundreds of megabytes
Oct 14 14:15:40 <plusminus_> and might get painfully slow
Oct 14 14:16:08 <plusminus_> getting the route with a simple http-request can be incredibly fast, especially on 3G
Oct 14 14:16:28 <plusminus_> the data returned is not big, around 50kn
Oct 14 14:16:30 <plusminus_> b
Oct 14 14:16:37 <plusminus_> .. got to work a bit now ;)
Oct 14 14:18:19 <MrSnowflake> +-: but the xml's should be optional
Oct 14 14:20:44 <muthu1> imagebutton shows image + text, right?
Oct 14 14:21:00 <muthu1> icon is shown.. where did the text go?
Oct 14 14:22:00 <MrSnowflake> muthu1: I think imagebuttons don't have text
Oct 14 14:24:02 <muthu1> looks like it
Oct 14 15:13:19 * ttuttle explains to his phone that "silent" does not mean DO NOT TELL ME WHEN SOMEONE IS CALLING ME FOR A PHONE INTERVIEW.
Oct 14 15:13:46 <cbeust_> You should have picked the profile "Silent except if a recruiter calls me"
Oct 14 15:13:57 <ttuttle> cbeust_: Yeah :-\
Oct 14 15:14:10 * ttuttle is also dismayed to find that calling the number back does not work.
Oct 14 15:21:14 <ttuttle> Oh well, I'll try to schedule a new one.
Oct 14 15:21:31 <muthu1> ttuttle: where's the interview?
Oct 14 15:21:46 <ttuttle> muthu1: It was a phone interview.
Oct 14 15:21:57 <ttuttle> muthu1: My trusty G1 obeyed me and remained silent as the recruiter called me twice :-\
Oct 14 15:22:07 <ttuttle> muthu1: I mean, it was a n00b mistake.  I turned off vibrate by accident.
Oct 14 15:22:12 <muthu1> ha
Oct 14 15:22:30 <ttuttle> (The real WTF is that I wasn't sitting in a quiet room waiting for the phone call.)
Oct 14 15:22:53 <muthu1> hmm, he'll catch you..
Oct 14 15:22:55 <ttuttle> (Which, of course, I can blame on Google Calendar for not telepathically figuring out that I needed a reminder.)
Oct 14 15:23:09 <ttuttle> muthu1: Yeah, I assume some percentage of phone interviews are missed connections.
Oct 14 15:24:07 <muthu1> aren't you with google?
Oct 14 15:32:23 <muthu1> http://alsutton.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/where-googles-android-may-have-already-failed/
Oct 14 15:40:53 <muthu1> morrildl: when the market opens?
Oct 14 15:43:32 <SanMehat> Fo' Realz?!
Oct 14 15:43:47 <morrildl> SanMehat: YES.
Oct 14 15:43:53 <morrildl> FO' REALZ, YO
Oct 14 15:44:29 <zer0her0> of course that's the day i leave for a week and won't have internet access
Oct 14 15:47:24 <muthu1> yo morrildl
Oct 14 15:47:31 <muthu1> is the market open for public?
Oct 14 15:48:09 <morrildl> muthu1: not yet
Oct 14 15:48:44 <muthu1> make it open..
Oct 14 15:48:50 <zer0her0> hah
Oct 14 15:48:54 <muthu1> all of the events so far
Oct 14 15:49:04 <muthu1> "open" is only in the "OHA" title
Oct 14 15:49:18 <muthu1> or change OHA to CHA ;)
Oct 14 15:50:08 <muthu1> so far its all about NDA, private, small group, limited, US only
Oct 14 15:50:27 <zhobbs> muthu1: it'll be open, t-mobile and HTC just gotta get their moneys worth with a good launch...after that it should be free reign
Oct 14 15:50:58 <muthu1> hope so
Oct 14 15:52:19 <zer0her0> agreed.
Oct 14 15:52:23 <muthu1> zhobbs: how's tunewiki shaping up?
Oct 14 15:58:45 <muthu1> developers in india are getting ready for android
Oct 14 15:59:28 <michaelnovakjr_> jeez stop changing your name
Oct 14 15:59:53 <michaelnovakjr_> are they putting on their i <3 muthu shirts?
Oct 14 16:00:03 <muthu1> hehe
Oct 14 16:00:16 <muthu1> i <3 android shirts
Oct 14 16:01:51 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_: changing his name?  hehe, you know a while back muthu switched his nick and was in here trolling like a 12 year old
Oct 14 16:02:00 <michaelnovakjr_> haha so i hear
Oct 14 16:02:05 <jasta> it was really pathetic
Oct 14 16:02:12 <michaelnovakjr_> i could only imagine
Oct 14 16:02:27 <muthu1> that'll happen once a month
Oct 14 16:02:35 <muthu1> so hang on for the next session
Oct 14 16:02:44 <michaelnovakjr_> are you serious?
Oct 14 16:02:58 <muthu1> yup
Oct 14 16:03:16 <michaelnovakjr_> why would you do that..... its incredibly stupid
Oct 14 16:03:31 <muthu1> to be incredibly stupid
Oct 14 16:03:48 <michaelnovakjr_> you definitely are a moron
Oct 14 16:03:54 <muthu1> hehe
Oct 14 16:04:01 <michaelnovakjr_> i wasn't joking :)
Oct 14 16:04:09 <muthu1> hehe
Oct 14 16:04:20 <muthu1> who cares about michaelnovakjr
Oct 14 16:05:35 <muthu1> what happened to your random app, michaelnovakjr?
Oct 14 16:05:42 <michaelnovakjr_> random?
Oct 14 16:05:42 <zhobbs> muthu1: tunewiki is coming along pretty well
Oct 14 16:05:56 <muthu1> zhobbs: nice
Oct 14 16:06:11 <michaelnovakjr_> what random app are you talking about?
Oct 14 16:06:21 <muthu1> the one you wrote
Oct 14 16:06:28 <michaelnovakjr_> ?
Oct 14 16:07:32 <jasta> muthu1: i might submit that the measure of a man is not the product he produces.
Oct 14 16:08:39 <muthu1> jasta: why the heck are you talking about measure of a man now?
Oct 14 16:08:51 <muthu1> makes no sense
Oct 14 16:09:00 <jasta> you did, you suggested we not care about michaelnovakjr.
Oct 14 16:12:54 <muthu1> if you care about someone who's serious about calling others morons, then you have a real problem
Oct 14 16:21:19 <michaelnovakjr_> muthu1, you are a moron
Oct 14 16:21:24 <michaelnovakjr_> you have proven it
Oct 14 16:21:28 <michaelnovakjr_> its not an opinion
Oct 14 16:21:35 <michaelnovakjr_> its based on your actions
Oct 14 16:21:52 <muthu1> feel free
Oct 14 16:22:19 <jasta> better quiet down lest the moderators disagree with you :)
Oct 14 16:22:29 <muthu1> hehe
Oct 14 16:22:39 <muthu1> jasta: bet you
Oct 14 16:22:49 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta, disagree with me?
Oct 14 16:22:54 <jasta> yeah
Oct 14 16:23:10 <SanMehat> guys...
Oct 14 16:23:10 <michaelnovakjr_> someone trolling around like a 12 year old isn't a moron?
Oct 14 16:23:40 <michaelnovakjr_> i don't have patience for morons
Oct 14 16:24:20 <jasta> why can't there be fist fights on irc?  aww ;)
Oct 14 16:24:29 <yakischloba> i think you guys should compare your android dicks and see who's is biggest
Oct 14 16:24:57 <zhobbs> haha
Oct 14 16:29:04 <bricode> Guess people are bored waiting for the actual hardware to be available...
Oct 14 16:29:33 <_moron> hey, how's it going?
Oct 14 16:29:44 <bricode> Can anyone confirm that the audio subsystem is based on ALSA?
Oct 14 16:35:19 <androidrocks> how to do a checked menu item?
Oct 14 16:36:05 <SanMehat> bricode: the audio system is not based on alsa
Oct 14 16:36:31 <bricode> SanMehat: OSS?
Oct 14 16:36:33 <jeld> guys, sorry for a rather stupid question. I am trying to get a button click to change something on the same screen, all I need to do is call some methods from my main Activity class, but how do I get my activity instance from inside the OnClickListener ?
Oct 14 16:36:35 <windowsrefund> hello
Oct 14 16:37:01 <windowsrefund> is android 100% free software?
Oct 14 16:37:31 <androidrocks> jeld: get the context
Oct 14 16:37:43 <androidrocks> or use "Activity".class
Oct 14 16:37:53 <androidrocks> err.. "Activity".this
Oct 14 16:38:41 <jeld> androidrocks, what?
Oct 14 16:38:58 <rayado> jeld:  is your OnClickListener an inner class of your Activity?
Oct 14 16:39:12 <jeld> androidrocks, where do I get the context from, it seems like I get passed a View in the onClick, and I guess the View is the Button that got pressed
Oct 14 16:39:23 <jeld> rayado, yes
Oct 14 16:39:35 <jeld> rayado, I define the onclick methods inside the onCreate
Oct 14 16:39:42 <rayado> in that case, YourActivity.this will be your activity
Oct 14 16:39:49 <jeld> rayado, heh
Oct 14 16:39:53 <jeld> rayado, lemme try
Oct 14 16:45:14 <jeld> how do I log messages to the logcat?
Oct 14 16:46:55 <androidrocks> Log.i
Oct 14 16:51:02 <Disconnect> jeld: http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html#logging (i happened to be on that page anyway :) ..)
Oct 14 16:51:23 <jeld> Disconnect, thanx
Oct 14 16:51:27 <jeld> androidrocks, thanx
Oct 14 16:53:23 <windowsrefund> does a pdf reader exist for android?
Oct 14 16:53:53 <Hai-Fai> if one creates such a thing
Oct 14 16:54:53 <jeld> freaky, all I have is a List called results bound to a ListView via ArrayAdapter. When I call results.clear() I get UnsupportedOperation
Oct 14 16:58:48 <Disconnect> wow the eclipse layout editor is a huge memory hog
Oct 14 16:58:54 <Disconnect> gigs and gigs
Oct 14 16:59:53 <jeld> Disconnect, looks like it starts eating too much once in a while, I am running it and it takes maybe a couple hundred megs, but once or twice a day it will go and gobble up all the memory on the system
Oct 14 16:59:57 <androidrocks> looks like the checked menu item can only be shown in a group
Oct 14 17:00:21 <Disconnect> yah - triggered by doing text edits mostly i think. looks like its trying to update the layout display even when it knows its broken.
Oct 14 17:02:29 <jeld> Disconnect, yes, I noticed that it mostly happened to me when editing layouts
Oct 14 17:04:09 <jasta> yawn
Oct 14 17:04:24 <jasta> Disconnect: that thing has never even worked for me
Oct 14 17:04:27 <jasta> it always freaks out
Oct 14 17:04:29 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 14 17:04:35 <jasta> but i dont really see the point so, meh :)
Oct 14 17:05:34 <Disconnect> looking at http://code.google.com/android/devel/ui/layout.html .. looks like i can say linear, fill_parent, then set sizes to 0 and a weight (eg '10' and '20') to split up the screen, right? (if i want the '20' child be 2x the size of the '10') but thats not working for me.
Oct 14 17:05:38 <Disconnect> am i misreading that?
Oct 14 17:08:21 <Disconnect> (assuming i want a display like their right-hand example i might say "Review" size 0 weight 5, "Add" same, ... and hten Comments-textbox size 0 weight 20?)
Oct 14 17:08:34 <jasta> that is how it should work, but only the dimensions you want to stretch would be set to 0px
Oct 14 17:08:34 <jasta> the orientation matters
Oct 14 17:09:20 <Disconnect> ok i think that makes more sense.
Oct 14 17:09:36 <jasta> and the 0px thing is just an optimization
Oct 14 17:10:00 <jasta> it just tells the layout to not bother computing the potential size during the initial pass, but rather, go back and fill it in exactly with the available space from the rest of the layout
Oct 14 17:11:22 <Disconnect> yah it works now. :)
Oct 14 17:13:23 <jasta> weight requirse a two pass measure btw
Oct 14 17:15:15 <Disconnect> ?
Oct 14 17:17:38 <jasta> using weight is somewhat expensive
Oct 14 17:18:34 <Disconnect> ah. yah. fortunately its a static view (content changes but not layout) except on orientation change. so hopefully it won't matter
Oct 14 17:18:37 <jasta> just keep that in mind as your layouts become complex
Oct 14 17:19:43 <Disconnect> yah definitely
Oct 14 17:20:03 <Disconnect> is there another decent way to do a layout like that, without just coding it for current-size screens?
Oct 14 17:20:54 <jasta> no, not really
Oct 14 17:21:10 <jasta> im not recommending you avoid using weight, i'm just telling you to think about it :)
Oct 14 17:21:11 <Disconnect> (the basic "these objects at content size, then {1-3 objects} split the rest" layout)
Oct 14 17:21:14 <Disconnect> heh yah fair enough
Oct 14 17:21:21 <Disconnect> was just looking for other ways to do it
Oct 14 17:24:20 <jasta> also, something to keep in mind that you can write custom layouts which are permitted to make further assumptions about your layouts.  for example, if you find that you have a very deeply nested layout structure it might be a good idea to create your own layout that gives you the same level of flexibility but without the deep layout/measure pass
Oct 14 17:30:52 <plusminus_> Is there a list of tmobile stores that ar selling the G1 on October 22nd
Oct 14 17:30:54 <plusminus_> ?
Oct 14 17:31:09 <plusminus_> my local one does not *CHEER*
Oct 14 17:33:10 <jasta> im sure you can call t-mobile and get that info
Oct 14 17:34:57 <morrildl> jasta: but he's looking to buy a phone
Oct 14 17:35:10 <morrildl> are you suggesting that he might already have one? ;)
Oct 14 17:35:27 <jasta> no, i'm suggesting that he can call t-mobile and ask what stores will be getting a shipment of G1's on the 22nd.
Oct 14 17:35:30 <jasta> which they would know
Oct 14 17:35:54 <MrSnowflake> morrildl: he can use the emulator
Oct 14 17:38:38 * jasta pokes umdk1d3 
Oct 14 17:48:00 <ttuttle> greetings
Oct 14 17:51:24 <jasta> am i just being dense?  what is the milestone column for in google code issue list?
Oct 14 17:51:40 <jasta> is that for which release the bug belongs to, or which release the bug will be fixed in?
Oct 14 17:53:19 <jasta> hey dougie
Oct 14 17:57:52 <plusminus_> morrildl: no I got non. if you've got two ... :P
Oct 14 17:58:18 <Dougie187> hey jasta hows it going?
Oct 14 18:00:28 <jasta> great, getting excited to run Five on a real phone :)
Oct 14 18:00:48 <jasta> working on some last minute things i really need it to have hehe
Oct 14 18:01:07 <jasta> btw, if anyone is interested in helping out:
Oct 14 18:01:11 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/five/issues/list -- everything Medium and over is release critical
Oct 14 18:01:15 <jasta> :P
Oct 14 18:02:17 <plusminus_> MrSnowflake: I'd be fine, if the GPS in the emulator would work similar to GPS on the G1... something seems to be dlightly different
Oct 14 18:02:24 <plusminus_> or I am missing something
Oct 14 18:02:31 <zhobbs> jasta: nice of you to leave 4 issues as optional
Oct 14 18:02:32 <plusminus_> jasta: 22nd is close :)
Oct 14 18:02:38 <zhobbs> :)
Oct 14 18:02:48 <jasta> zhobbs: hmm?>
Oct 14 18:03:08 <zhobbs> jasta: only 4 issues are below medium :)
Oct 14 18:03:18 <jasta> well there are lots more optional things i just didnt have the energy to add them
Oct 14 18:03:23 <zhobbs> ah
Oct 14 18:03:24 <jasta> i created that as a kind of checklist to release hehe
Oct 14 18:04:56 <jasta> realistically, i'd say all this work will let me have a Jan or Feb release.
Oct 14 18:06:20 <zhobbs> jasta: yeah, that's a lot of work
Oct 14 18:06:53 <jasta> i'm ok with it tho.  i didn't do squat for like 5 months after the ADC round 1
Oct 14 18:08:50 <jasta> still, it will be usable when i get my phone on the 22nd ;P
Oct 14 18:09:14 <jasta> i plan to have playlist support done by then, which is one of the last usability issues i personally need worked out :)
Oct 14 18:10:30 <jasta> hey check out my new player screen
Oct 14 18:11:20 <jasta> http://five.googlecode.com/files/player-really-new.png
Oct 14 18:15:40 <jasonlee> so is this 1.5 million pre-order number legit?
Oct 14 18:16:31 <zhobbs> seems high to me
Oct 14 18:17:33 <jasta> yeah, i dont buy it.
Oct 14 18:17:39 <jasta> i bet its more like 100-200k
Oct 14 18:17:40 <jasta> if that
Oct 14 18:17:47 <jasta> for pre-order, i mean
Oct 14 18:17:50 <zhobbs> jasta: I agree
Oct 14 18:18:05 <jasta> the iphone sold what, 1 million in a week?  do you guys really think android will outsell it in presale alone?  no way.
Oct 14 18:18:31 <zhobbs> no one I know has even heard of it (outside me)
Oct 14 18:19:43 <f00f-> nice jasta, although i fear the buttons are too small
Oct 14 18:21:01 <zhobbs> yeah, they probably are too small
Oct 14 18:21:23 <zhobbs> play with the -scale argument to get it down to the size of an iphone
Oct 14 18:21:35 <muthu1> -scale 0.6
Oct 14 18:21:49 <zhobbs> depends on your monitor/resolution
Oct 14 18:24:30 <jasta> f00f-: yeah, i'm actually increasing them by smushing the top bar (making more room at the bottom)
Oct 14 18:26:54 <jasta> and then scale the buttons of course
Oct 14 18:27:03 <jasta> zhobbs: i've been testing with real devices, actually
Oct 14 18:27:25 <zhobbs> jasta: nice, a G1?
Oct 14 18:27:26 <jasta> friendly googlers and t-mobile employees hehe
Oct 14 18:27:27 <jasta> yes
Oct 14 18:27:31 <zhobbs> cool
Oct 14 18:27:58 <unix_lappy> maybe not the first day, but probably be able to say you've sold more android devices than Apple.
Oct 14 18:28:23 <JoeBrain> How do you like the G1?
Oct 14 18:29:56 <plusminus_> self testing or getting it tested ?
Oct 14 18:30:12 <plusminus_> .. @ jasta
Oct 14 18:30:18 <Acsia> have you seen this: rjdj.me?
Oct 14 18:30:28 <Acsia> augmented reality within your iphone
Oct 14 18:30:31 <Acsia> very cool idea
Oct 14 18:31:11 <JoeBrain> what is reality augmented with?
Oct 14 18:31:17 <unix_lappy> JoeBrain: it's fine, some people dont like it though, citing lack of multitouch, lack of 3.5mm, screen bezel is too big, the overall design and color scheme is lacking.
Oct 14 18:31:31 <jasta> plusminus_: getting it tested
Oct 14 18:31:47 <JoeBrain> hrmm those don't bug me too much, you have any pet peeves besides those unix_lappy?
Oct 14 18:31:55 <Acsia> JoeBrain: you basically program a scene with puredata which can react on the movement of your phone, external sound etc...
Oct 14 18:31:55 <zhobbs> lack of 3.5mm jack is weak
Oct 14 18:32:10 <jasta> zhobbs: yeah, and combined with lack of stereo bluetooth is a really big problem
Oct 14 18:32:19 <zhobbs> super weak
Oct 14 18:32:25 <jasta> agreed, i was so disappointed by that
Oct 14 18:32:28 <JoeBrain> I do admit I've been putting myself to sleep w/ a pair of headphones at night attached to iPhone :)
Oct 14 18:32:29 <unix_lappy> it's a practical portable device.  it's not designed to be an iphone....
Oct 14 18:33:08 <zhobbs> if you want to charge and listen you gotta have something like this: http://store.mobilitytoday.com/content/accessories/73-75--3571.htm
Oct 14 18:33:17 <unix_lappy> now, you throw together all the iphone hardware, with android and throw in a keyboard...all under 200 and you've got a winner.  but that's not what the first iteration was designed to be like.
Oct 14 18:33:34 <JoeBrain> G1 is sub-200 USD?
Oct 14 18:33:36 <unix_lappy> nor would it be cost effective imho.
Oct 14 18:33:46 <zhobbs> JoeBrain: yeah, $179 + contract
Oct 14 18:34:01 <JoeBrain> ah damn is it locked to T-Mo?
Oct 14 18:34:10 <unix_lappy> JoeBrain: in the US you assume contract.  other countries flat out price for a device in it's class is about 400-600
Oct 14 18:34:30 <JoeBrain> ah so I could probably import one for about 500 hrmmm
Oct 14 18:34:33 <jasta> zhobbs: yeah, and that really sucks for music playback
Oct 14 18:34:41 <jasta> because a lot of times people use it in the car and stuff
Oct 14 18:34:57 <jasta> i'll need some lame dongle off my aux jack in my car
Oct 14 18:35:05 <jasta> and another one for power
Oct 14 18:35:20 <zhobbs> yep
Oct 14 18:35:26 <jasta> and the worst part about the dongle is that it doesn't fit well
Oct 14 18:35:41 <jasta> i've used one of these before, and the stupid thing is so back heavy that it flops out of the phone a lot
Oct 14 18:35:49 <jasta> terrible design, argh
Oct 14 18:36:10 <JoeBrain> so no A2DP either huh
Oct 14 18:36:11 <zhobbs> ohh well, we'll see some more android phones next year
Oct 14 18:36:13 <unix_lappy> I wish they had the mainstream consumer in mind when designing the device.
Oct 14 18:36:14 <jasta> JoeBrain: nope
Oct 14 18:36:23 <jasta> zhobbs: i want A2DP so i can hook up something to use that in my car :)
Oct 14 18:36:24 <unix_lappy> in the tradition of the PMP
Oct 14 18:36:26 <jasta> that would be slick
Oct 14 18:36:28 <zhobbs> we waited a year for this, can wait a bit longer I guess
Oct 14 18:36:42 <plusminus_> zhobbs: no :)
Oct 14 18:36:45 <plusminus_> i want it now
Oct 14 18:36:46 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: the big question is how much longer.
Oct 14 18:36:49 <zhobbs> hehe
Oct 14 18:36:55 <JoeBrain> it'll be great when you do development work & it works or is easily portable across multiple devices
Oct 14 18:36:57 <jasta> unix_lappy: actually i think they had google services in mind, and music isn't part of any google services ;)
Oct 14 18:36:58 <unix_lappy> and how much better is the new device going to be.
Oct 14 18:37:07 <zhobbs> yeah, we'll all have contracts with t-mobile, so we'll be stuck when the next device is badass
Oct 14 18:37:08 <plusminus_> better to say... i need it, because I need to debug :(
Oct 14 18:37:29 <JoeBrain> what's due date for G1?
Oct 14 18:37:34 <Disconnect> supposedly its all about the platform. which means you can run it on the n810 and make google fix any g1 bugs :)
Oct 14 18:37:36 <unix_lappy> JoeBrain: topic ^
Oct 14 18:37:40 <JoeBrain> I'm blind
Oct 14 18:37:42 <JoeBrain> thanks :)
Oct 14 18:38:03 <plusminus_> I'll keep my first Android Device forever ^^ (just because its nerdish :) )
Oct 14 18:38:20 <JoeBrain> Pretty cool, only a week away
Oct 14 18:38:22 <jeld> amazingly, but my first (very silly) android program actually works
Oct 14 18:38:57 <JoeBrain> I guess I'll have to wait for a handset mfr to make one for ATT if I want cell signal :|
Oct 14 18:39:36 <unix_lappy> jasta: agreed. though I'm not a big fan of music on the go.  I'll likely buy an ipod touch to go along with my G1.
Oct 14 18:39:49 <jasta> but think about why you're not...
Oct 14 18:39:55 <jasta> because your phone typically sucks at it :)
Oct 14 18:40:04 <jasta> if it didn't suck at it, why on earth would you prefer carrying two devices?
Oct 14 18:40:17 <JoeBrain> like stuffing your pants w/ socks, right?
Oct 14 18:40:39 <unix_lappy> jasta: that and most usable / portable headphones suck.
Oct 14 18:41:02 <jasta> unix_lappy: how is your ipod touch gonna be different? wherever you carry it you'd need to carry headphones hehe
Oct 14 18:41:21 <zhobbs> unix_lappy: why get a touch? just get a 16 GB sd card
Oct 14 18:41:34 <JoeBrain> More toys = better
Oct 14 18:41:37 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: that's a given.
Oct 14 18:42:27 <unix_lappy> it'll be interesting to see how decent transfer speeds.
Oct 14 18:42:46 <unix_lappy> and along those same lines how updates are handled and how fast they are.
Oct 14 18:43:19 <herriojr> how far away is it?
Oct 14 18:44:30 <herriojr> well, it is closer to the train station
Oct 14 18:45:00 <herriojr> mt
Oct 14 18:51:31 <Disconnect> JoeBrain: fyi at&t and tmob both do gsm. so you just need one unlocked.
Oct 14 18:52:00 <JoeBrain> Right, but don't you usually need to be w/ a carrier for 2 yrs to unlock or something?
Oct 14 18:52:19 <Disconnect> tmob will do it after 90 days for most everyone (sooner for long-term customers)
Oct 14 18:52:22 <JoeBrain> or do you think eBay will have unlocked ones off the bat?
Oct 14 18:52:23 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: fyi, att & tmobile operate on two different 3g freqs
Oct 14 18:52:35 <Disconnect> 3g sure
Oct 14 18:53:12 <Disconnect> but 99.9% of tmob's coverage is 2g anyway
Oct 14 18:56:45 <unix_lappy> today, yes.
Oct 14 19:03:24 * Disconnect thinks worrying about tmob's 3g network tomorrow is about as productive as rushing out to get a wimax device - sure, someday it'll exist, but someday will probably also come with new, better, possibly cheaper devices..
Oct 14 19:04:47 <JoeBrain> Not sure if ATT is expanding 3G, but I'm starting to get the 3G symbol on my iPhone in a lot more places
Oct 14 19:05:33 <jasta> AT&T is growing their 3G network, yes
Oct 14 19:05:39 <jasta> they all are
Oct 14 19:07:37 <zhobbs> I have a feeling it'll be a long time before I see a 3G symbol after I get a G1
Oct 14 19:09:25 <MrSnowflake> Same here, well, I could get 3G almost anywhere here but that would cost some limbs...
Oct 14 19:09:29 <Disconnect> not me. but thats only cuz i drink in baltimore a couple times a year. :/
Oct 14 19:10:13 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: there are so many things that could go wrong with this release because there are a hundered undisclosed variables.
Oct 14 19:11:08 <Disconnect> i do think its moderately hilarious that one hand is screaming "its a platform!" while the other keeps going "sorry, no <code, agreements, marketplace, docs, ..> until the phone is out."
Oct 14 19:11:37 <salviaz0r_tested> hello.
Oct 14 19:14:14 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: i'm cautiously optimistic it will work out.
Oct 14 19:15:06 <dmoffett> I wonder if it would not just be better to let the phone come out with the standard Google apps.  Make sure developers get their hands on devices.  Developers then have a chance to test.  Then have the stores open for business.  It would not be good to have a bunch of untested apps show up on the phone and give users a really crappy experience.
Oct 14 19:15:08 <Disconnect> i think they have a huge opportunity to pull a moko and fizzle
Oct 14 19:15:22 <unix_lappy> but when 3 companies with 3 different bottom lines with 3 different investors to cater to stand on a stage and start talking about openess and cooperation....
Oct 14 19:15:48 <unix_lappy> i'm skeptical, but cautiously optimistic.
Oct 14 19:17:03 <f00f-> heh
Oct 14 19:17:24 <f00f-> too late for that dave
Oct 14 19:17:38 <dmoffett> I know I don't want to release with out testing on real hardware but if I see a competitor on the market there will be pressure.
Oct 14 19:17:50 <f00f-> you can still wait ;D
Oct 14 19:17:57 <dmoffett> Guess so, smarter people than I are in charge.  :-)
Oct 14 19:18:02 <dmoffett> I plan to.
Oct 14 19:18:16 <Disconnect> did they kick phones to the adc winners at least? (noo... so their "wild awesome new best-of-show" multiple-hundred-thousand-dollar winner apps .. will blow sky high as soon as someone waves a phone at them
Oct 14 19:19:02 <jasta> some of them got phones
Oct 14 19:19:18 <Disconnect> it'd be different if the emulator and phone really did work identically but i haven't heard from anyone yet who's managed to get it run on a phone and had it work out of the box as expected.. (but then again, maybe those people aren't loudly posting going "dag nabbit google you f'd up my app!" so.. :) ..)
Oct 14 19:19:29 <JoeBrain> really? without finagling it from friends like unix_lap?
Oct 14 19:19:41 <benley> any of you guys played with the itunes remote app?
Oct 14 19:20:18 <unix_lappy> JoeBrain: ?
Oct 14 19:20:29 <JoeBrain> he was saying that some ADC winners got devices
Oct 14 19:20:54 <JoeBrain> and I mixed your name w/ jasta's
Oct 14 19:21:21 <Disconnect> jasta: i was going by the published faq (says "cash only no strings")
Oct 14 19:21:25 <unix_lappy> a lot of non ADC winners, non google employees, etc have played with the phone, afaik.
Oct 14 19:21:55 <JoeBrain> Any clue where you'd get one?
Oct 14 19:21:55 <haxi> excuse me, are the official release of android planned yet?
Oct 14 19:21:59 <Disconnect> "played with" .. sure. tons of tmob managers are hauling it around as well :)
Oct 14 19:22:19 <Disconnect> haxi: the official release is 1.0r1 (ooh its a platform) but the phone comes out next week on t-mobile usa
Oct 14 19:22:37 <JoeBrain> ah dern it, I don't have any friends that work for TMo
Oct 14 19:22:54 <zhobbs> wow...can't believe it's next week...I better get back to work
Oct 14 19:23:04 <benley> sweet, it really is just a week off
Oct 14 19:23:06 <haxi> next week on USA mh.. Do you think the HTC Dream G1 will be "ported" to france?
Oct 14 19:23:19 <benley> haxi: officially or greymarket?
Oct 14 19:23:26 <benley> greymarket is inevitable
Oct 14 19:23:42 <haxi> officially.
Oct 14 19:23:58 <haxi> Well, it will depend when it will be out ;P
Oct 14 19:24:23 <zhobbs> anyone here pre-order one?
Oct 14 19:24:33 * Disconnect did 
Oct 14 19:24:38 <haxi> I hope this phone will simply rock.
Oct 14 19:25:24 <Disconnect> haxi: http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg282/rizzy811/iphonevsstone.jpg
Oct 14 19:25:46 <dmoffett> Over time Android will be fine, but I suspect there will be some bumps.  Even Apple, who has a press lighting rod, had some bumps.
Oct 14 19:25:52 <haxi> yes? mh...
Oct 14 19:26:11 <zhobbs> Disconnect: lol
Oct 14 19:28:06 <haxi> Disconnect: I'm not a iPhone addict, but my actual phone is gonna be outdated soon (W850i), and I'm looking for a new one. Since I'm a free human being (debian), I'd love to use an android phone. I'm actually looking around new LG's and Samsung's.
Oct 14 19:29:23 <Disconnect> ooh 'free human being' i gotta say, while i'm all for freedom, that amuses me. i'm afraid you won't find a "free" phone. gsm chipsets are heavily proprietary and protected...
Oct 14 19:30:43 <JoeBrain> No MMS does bug me, but only because viewmymessage.com blows chunkies
Oct 14 19:30:44 <Disconnect> barring that, openmoko is a better bet - the device and software are both open (istr thats the one that published plans, bootloaders, etc) and its already out.
Oct 14 19:30:54 <JoeBrain> OpenMoko has no camera?
Oct 14 19:31:51 <jasta> the neo freerunner will be a great android target when source is out
Oct 14 19:31:55 <jasta> i'm so excited about that :)
Oct 14 19:32:02 <jasta> i will totally buy one if they get it up stable
Oct 14 19:32:09 <Disconnect> but i'm not sure you can read this anyway, since the bios, monitor firmware, graphics chip firmware, NIC firmware (ooh don't forget disk controller) and so forth are all non-free :)
Oct 14 19:34:32 <haxi> Disconnect: Yep, i know that some parts are not opensource, but I'd be glad to have an open-source system on my phone ;D
Oct 14 19:34:54 <haxi> I hope I'll see htc dream G1 ass around here in france soon.
Oct 14 19:36:09 <zhobbs> if you get multiple intents broadcasted to a BroadcastReceiver will it create multiple instances, or just call onReceive() again on an existing instance?
Oct 14 19:36:16 * Disconnect isn't holding his breath on a complete free-and-really-actually-free android source tree until it appears.. it may well do that, which is great, but..
Oct 14 19:36:44 <jasta> Disconnect: i think enough will come out to port it elsewhere, even if that excludes tons of google apps
Oct 14 19:36:46 <haxi> You're one of the android dev?
Oct 14 19:36:56 <haxi> google apps rocks, yes.
Oct 14 19:37:03 <Disconnect> jasta: i hope so.
Oct 14 19:37:29 <zhobbs> I agree...we'll see it ported
Oct 14 19:38:28 <jasta> i also want to see a free app repo open up
Oct 14 19:38:39 <jasta> libre, that is
Oct 14 19:39:11 <jasta> stupid english
Oct 14 19:40:13 <haxi> libre, yes. ;)
Oct 14 19:43:32 <haxi> Do anyone has a good picture of this "htc dream g1"?
Oct 14 19:44:07 <haxi> or there is no designs yet?
Oct 14 19:44:48 <Disconnect> t-mobileg1.com
Oct 14 19:44:59 <Disconnect> dream is the in-development codename
Oct 14 19:46:04 <zhobbs> haxi: http://tmobile.modeaondemand.com/htc/g1/
Oct 14 19:46:26 <haxi> thanks.
Oct 14 19:47:46 <SanMehat> haxi: welcome to earth
Oct 14 19:49:42 <haxi> berk. the design is NOT ok.
Oct 14 19:50:29 <benley> ?
Oct 14 19:52:13 <haxi> this slide is.. not for me :P
Oct 14 19:52:30 <SanMehat> haxi: thats too bad...
Oct 14 19:52:54 <SanMehat> haxi: maybe another future android device will meet your requirements
Oct 14 19:53:38 <dmoffett> I think haxi might be an indictor why there may not be 1.5M units pre sold.  :-)
Oct 14 19:53:46 <ttuttle> So, here's the thing:
Oct 14 19:54:21 <haxi> ; D
Oct 14 19:54:26 <ttuttle> Most of my really technical friends pick up the dream and are somewhere between disgusted and indifferent.  They start poking at it and get annoyed about little details.
Oct 14 19:54:26 <tethridge> so did they debunk the rumor that 1.5 units were sold?
Oct 14 19:54:48 <ttuttle> But most of my non-technical friends pick it up and like the keyboard, and think it's cool.
Oct 14 19:55:03 <ttuttle> So don't take the attitudes of people here as anything like the attitudes of the population at large.
Oct 14 19:55:48 <Disconnect> dmoffett: because he's not in the us and can't buy one? :P)
Oct 14 19:55:49 <Disconnect> :)
Oct 14 19:56:12 <dmoffett> Because he did not even know a unit existed.
Oct 14 19:56:35 <tethridge> so they did sell 1.5 million already?
Oct 14 19:56:50 * ttuttle does not know, but thinks it would be really awesome.
Oct 14 19:57:12 <tethridge> I guess we'll see
Oct 14 19:57:19 <tethridge> tmo would brag about that
Oct 14 19:58:04 <tethridge> if they have sold that many, imagine what would sell if the hardware was like the touch hd specs...
Oct 14 19:58:07 <JoeBrain> tech people will never be happy with anything ttuttle :)
Oct 14 20:00:50 <haxi> tech people always want more :)
Oct 14 20:00:58 <haxi> like dragon ball z, you see.
Oct 14 20:02:51 <JoeBrain> hrmm no i dont really see, but ok
Oct 14 20:02:52 <jeld> I wonder, how would you go about changing a keyboard map on android device?
Oct 14 20:03:12 <jeld> for example if I want to type in different language
Oct 14 20:08:57 <haxi> jeld: Maybe you could submit that feature (if it's not implemented yet) to android's devs?
Oct 14 20:09:11 <jasta> it would be pretty embarrassing if it didn't exist yet and wasn't known
Oct 14 20:09:28 <jasta> i mean, that's the realization that english isn't the only language humans write in :)
Oct 14 20:09:42 <Disconnect> thats like the realization that the usa isn't the only place with developers :)
Oct 14 20:10:02 <JoeBrain> thats the realization we all need to start learning Esperanto!
Oct 14 20:10:33 <haxi> oshi-. ;]
Oct 14 20:10:48 <wastrel> ni hao
Oct 14 20:42:34 <Disconnect> maybe i haven't looked very hard :) but does anyone know off teh top of their head what the license on the sample code in the api docs is?
Oct 14 20:42:44 <Disconnect> cuz that is prolly gonna matter a lot when people start writing commercial apps :/
Oct 14 20:43:36 <jasta> I believe it's Apache 2.0
Oct 14 20:44:16 <jasta> romainguy_: hey, i think i just broke the home app
Oct 14 20:44:27 <MrSnowflake> cool
Oct 14 20:44:28 <jasta> it will no longer slide left to right, or open the long press menu
Oct 14 20:44:34 <jasta> but the drawer at the bottom opens fine
Oct 14 20:44:54 <jasta> can't click on any icons on the home screen either, only the ones in the drawer that open
Oct 14 20:48:14 <Disconnect> jasta: there is an sdk license ("everyhing ours is ours, the risks are all yours" sort of thing) and then the "open source" license. but i wasn't able to find anything concerning the docs.
Oct 14 20:48:49 <Disconnect> (and by extension, the code samples)
Oct 14 20:49:07 <Lenolium> Disconnect: Most of the sample code has explicit Apache 2.0 licenses at the top of it.
Oct 14 20:49:39 <jasta> yes, the code samples are def. apache 2.0
Oct 14 20:50:21 <MrSnowflake> Aren't the docs common creators?
Oct 14 20:53:05 <Disconnect> not talking about the notepad demo and such, but (for random example) http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html#alerts .. maybe its stated somewhere obvious and i missed it (it happens)
Oct 14 20:55:32 <taaz> why would anyone on any platform make example code in docs anything but public domain?
Oct 14 20:56:54 <Disconnect> you'd be surprised (i was - few years back, on an embedded platform, turned out the totally-broken-anyway zigbee examples they shipped were burn-before-reading nda crap.)
Oct 14 21:02:14 <romainguy_> jasta: yeah, known bug, kill the process or reboot the device
Oct 14 21:05:19 <Disconnect> that does answer my question tho, stated or otherwise its apache 2.0 :) (rather than the locked-up hash in the SDK terms)
Oct 14 21:07:36 <Martyn> Hey all ..
Oct 14 21:07:49 * Martyn *waves* to San, hey man, LTNS
Oct 14 21:08:07 <JoeBrain> Hello Martyn
Oct 14 21:08:39 <Martyn> android.widget.CheckBox ---
Oct 14 21:09:05 <Martyn> If you set an item in the Checkbox with setchecked(true) .. the UI should immediately reflect the change, correct?
Oct 14 21:14:59 <tomgibara> romainguy_: regarding the home app on the emulator: if you drag the drawer open, then shut (without releasing the mouse), it still springs open - that irritates me occasionally when I have second thoughts about opening it.
Oct 14 21:15:09 <Martyn> ping?
Oct 14 21:15:43 <romainguy_> tomgibara: doesn't happen for me
Oct 14 21:15:53 <romainguy_> ah I see
Oct 14 21:16:02 <romainguy_> yes it happens if you release the mouse outside of the device
Oct 14 21:16:27 <romainguy_> it's actually difficult to do with a finger
Oct 14 21:16:42 <tomgibara> I guessed that might be the case
Oct 14 21:18:58 <tomgibara> Martyn: My understanding is that, assuming you call it on the UI thread, it will cause the CheckBox to be invalidated, which will in-turn post a later call on the UI thread to repaint the view.
Oct 14 21:19:21 <tomgibara> bit garbled - hope it makes sense
Oct 14 21:23:31 * plusminus_ just fugured out where to get a G1 on 22nd :)
Oct 14 21:23:33 <plusminus_> i
Oct 14 21:23:50 <zhobbs> plusminus_: how?
Oct 14 21:25:05 <plusminus_> in a t-mmobile store ?
Oct 14 21:25:11 <JoeBrain> lol
Oct 14 21:25:27 <plusminus_> the closest 10 got none, but in Baltimore they have :)
Oct 14 21:25:59 <JoeBrain> they're accepting preorders?
Oct 14 21:26:23 <plusminus_> i didn't say that, and I hope no. I've heard of FCFS :)
Oct 14 21:26:28 <plusminus_> so I have to eb early :D
Oct 14 21:26:38 <zhobbs> plusminus_: you just call them, or call corporate?
Oct 14 21:26:54 <plusminus_> went to a local store and they called there
Oct 14 21:27:20 <JoeBrain> yuckkkk so you're going to camp out? :)
Oct 14 21:27:59 <plusminus_> no, but 'll be there about an hour earlier wearing a Android shirt :)
Oct 14 21:28:41 <plusminus_> so everybody knows I'm going to kill for a G1 :P
Oct 14 21:29:11 <JoeBrain> lol
Oct 14 21:30:27 <MrSnowflake> Is there a way for a thread to wait for vblank on a Surface(View)?
Oct 14 21:33:37 <romainguy_> MrSnowflake: it's done for you
Oct 14 21:34:24 <MrSnowflake> through the lockCanvas and unlockCanvasAndPost ?
Oct 14 21:34:28 <romainguy_> yes
Oct 14 21:34:35 <MrSnowflake> thanks.
Oct 14 21:34:45 <MrSnowflake> Is there a way to avoid this behaviour?
Oct 14 21:35:15 <romainguy_> you *don't* want vsync?
Oct 14 21:35:51 <MrSnowflake> for preformance testing. If I have say 100fps left, I still have a lot of power I don't use!
Oct 14 21:36:07 <romainguy_> I don't think we have ways to not do vsync
Oct 14 21:36:23 <MrSnowflake> ok, no biggie. Thanks for the info!
Oct 14 21:37:45 <MrSnowflake> Oh, what's the "average" fps we should aim at? 60, or is it device dependant?
Oct 14 21:38:33 <romainguy_> if you want something that looks smooth, 40+ fps
Oct 14 21:39:24 <MrSnowflake> I know, but screen wise, what's the refresh rate?
Oct 14 21:39:46 <romainguy_> on G1 I think it's 50 Hz
Oct 14 21:40:06 <MrSnowflake> thanks again
Oct 14 21:57:26 <jasta> romainguy_: i had some complaints that my artist/album view is slow on a real device...
Oct 14 21:57:33 <jasta> do you have any recommendations for how to debug/optimize this?
Oct 14 21:57:39 <romainguy_> use traceview :)
Oct 14 21:57:50 <romainguy_> what is this view, a list?
Oct 14 21:57:58 <jasta> yeah
Oct 14 21:58:05 <romainguy_> look in the ApiDemos sample
Oct 14 21:58:15 <romainguy_> there's a ListView demo called Efficient Adapter or something like that
Oct 14 21:58:20 <romainguy_> it shows a couple of tricks
Oct 14 21:58:37 <romainguy_> also, where do you get the images from when you bind data to a list item?
Oct 14 21:58:45 <jasta> i'm pretty sure i've read that before but i'll take a look
Oct 14 21:58:58 <jasta> i use a SimpleCursorAdapter to bind columns which are Uri strings
Oct 14 21:59:06 <jasta> that map to my content provider
Oct 14 21:59:14 <romainguy_> and where does the provider get the images from?
Oct 14 21:59:16 <jasta> i'm checking my ContentProvider's code right now to check that openFile() isnt slow somehow
Oct 14 21:59:20 <jasta> from the sd card
Oct 14 21:59:23 <romainguy_> here you go
Oct 14 21:59:30 <romainguy_> you want to have an in-memory cache
Oct 14 21:59:47 <romainguy_> if you use a Map of SoftReference you can keep about 2 MB of arts in memory
Oct 14 21:59:52 <romainguy_> that's what we do in our Music app
Oct 14 21:59:56 <jasta> doesn't ListView have all that drawing cache stuff for itself?
Oct 14 21:59:58 <romainguy_> that helps a lot
Oct 14 22:00:01 <romainguy_> that's different
Oct 14 22:00:14 <romainguy_> in your case you are reading from the sdcard every time you bind an item
Oct 14 22:00:19 <jasta> ok, so would I hold a reference to the Bitmap itself or the ImageView?
Oct 14 22:00:22 <romainguy_> ListView takes over caching after binding
Oct 14 22:00:28 <romainguy_> a reference to the Bitmap
Oct 14 22:00:38 <romainguy_> next, what size in pixels are these bitmaps?
Oct 14 22:00:42 <jasta> ok, should be simple to implement
Oct 14 22:00:44 <romainguy_> and at what size do you display them?
Oct 14 22:00:45 <jasta> 64x64
Oct 14 22:00:49 <jasta> and 64x64 :)
Oct 14 22:00:55 <romainguy_> good :)
Oct 14 22:01:09 <romainguy_> getting read of sdcard reads will help *a lot*
Oct 14 22:01:17 <jasta> in particular, i use width=64px, height=fill_parent, scaleType=center
Oct 14 22:01:25 <romainguy_> perfect
Oct 14 22:01:40 <romainguy_> also, you can use a new API on TextView that lets you bind text with 0 allocation
Oct 14 22:02:59 <romainguy_> it's Cursor.copyStringToBuffer()
Oct 14 22:03:24 <romainguy_> and overall avoid all possible allocations
Oct 14 22:03:31 <romainguy_> cache as much as you can (using the ViewHolder pattern for instance)
Oct 14 22:03:43 <romainguy_> a good list adapter is a no-op adapter ^^
Oct 14 22:03:58 <jasta> what's the ViewHolder patterN?
Oct 14 22:04:14 <romainguy_> it's explained in the ApiDemo I was referring to
Oct 14 22:04:19 <jasta> ok, hang on, ill read it again
Oct 14 22:04:21 <romainguy_> it avoids all the findViewById
Oct 14 22:06:01 <jasta> ahh yes, i do remember that
Oct 14 22:06:25 <jasta> thanks for the info, i'll get started on a memory cache
Oct 14 22:06:30 <romainguy_> sure
Oct 14 22:14:46 <chouman82> does sms just not work on the sdk 1.0?
Oct 14 22:15:48 <chouman82> anyone has an idea?
Oct 14 22:17:58 <jasta> romainguy_: so, does SimpleCursorAdapter use a ViewHolder pattern for me?
Oct 14 22:18:14 <romainguy_> nope
Oct 14 22:18:21 <jasta> so i should not use a viewbinder if i want this opt?
Oct 14 22:18:45 <romainguy_> you can use a ViewBinder
Oct 14 22:19:04 <romainguy_> actually ViewBinder is the only way to use the ViewHolder pattern with SimpleCursorAdapter without subclassing SimpleCursorAdapter
Oct 14 22:19:24 <jasta> i can't see how.  the view binder is doing the findViewById for me
Oct 14 22:19:45 <jasta> it passes the view it finds, based on the id i supplied to the SimpleCursorAdapter constructor
Oct 14 22:19:51 <romainguy_> oh yeah it does
Oct 14 22:19:52 <romainguy_> sorry
Oct 14 22:19:55 <romainguy_> I'm confused :)
Oct 14 22:20:07 <romainguy_> you're screwed then :)
Oct 14 22:20:30 <Martyn> Back
Oct 14 22:20:39 <Martyn> I may have missed the reply
Oct 14 22:20:41 <zhobbs> romainguy_: how do I save/restore the scrolled state in a ListView?
Oct 14 22:20:54 <romainguy_> zhobbs: to do what/when?
Oct 14 22:21:04 <romainguy_> it's supposed to do it for you automatically
Oct 14 22:21:09 <romainguy_> (if the listivew has an id)
Oct 14 22:21:18 <zhobbs> romainguy_: yeah, it doesn't because I'm in an ActivityGroup
Oct 14 22:21:54 <zhobbs> I tried getScrollY() and scrollTo()
Oct 14 22:21:59 <Martyn> in CheckedTextView, if you use setChecked(true) ... should the UI show the checkbox as checked as soon as you call setChecked()?
Oct 14 22:21:59 <zhobbs> didn't seem to work
Oct 14 22:22:08 <romainguy_> then just call onSaveInstanceState()/onRestoreInstanceState()
Oct 14 22:22:34 <zhobbs> Ahhh, on the ListView
Oct 14 22:22:34 <romainguy_> ListView does not use scrollY
Oct 14 22:22:45 <romainguy_> Martyn: yes it should
Oct 14 22:22:56 <zhobbs> what kind of key does a View use in that Bundle?
Oct 14 22:23:08 <Martyn> romainguy : In the simulator, it fails to do so.
Oct 14 22:23:08 <jasta> romainguy_: well, really, for a simple view (as i have), the findViewById would be quite fast.
Oct 14 22:23:25 <romainguy_> jasta: yes, but on a fling they add up really quickly
Oct 14 22:23:29 <chouman82> hey guys, any experts on the sms?
Oct 14 22:23:38 <jasta> romainguy_: the ViewBinder *should* implement ViewHolder, don't you think?
Oct 14 22:23:39 <romainguy_> on "simple" items I got up to 5/10 more fps by applying ViewHolder
Oct 14 22:23:47 <jasta> i mean, what prevents a general optimization here?
Oct 14 22:23:51 <romainguy_> jasta: time
Oct 14 22:23:57 <romainguy_> as usual
Oct 14 22:24:27 <jasta> oh ok
Oct 14 22:24:36 <jasta> well, then i'm not gonna hassle with it too much at first
Oct 14 22:24:42 <romainguy_> zhobbs: it doesn't use keys
Oct 14 22:24:43 <jasta> and hope that at some point magically ViewBinders get optimized :)
Oct 14 22:24:57 <jasta> or perhaps i will subclass SimpleCursorAdapter with a ViewHeldBinder :)
Oct 14 22:25:03 <zhobbs> romainguy_: really? how can you store data in a Bundle without a key?
Oct 14 22:25:14 <romainguy_> the problem is that because of the way SimpleCursorAdapter works, doing a generic ViewHolder might be almost as bad as the current implementation ^^
Oct 14 22:25:32 <romainguy_> because we would need a map of int->View
Oct 14 22:25:41 <romainguy_> which means autoboxing/unboxing
Oct 14 22:25:44 <romainguy_> which means GCs
Oct 14 22:25:46 <jasta> oh, right, i see what you mean
Oct 14 22:25:48 <romainguy_> which means poor perfs
Oct 14 22:26:01 <romainguy_> there are ways to do it, just not as simple as it may seem at first :(
Oct 14 22:26:04 <jasta> the ViewHolder is really a compile-time map
Oct 14 22:26:14 <jasta> hadn't thought about that at first
Oct 14 22:26:17 <romainguy_> zhobbs: it's not a Bundle, it's a Parcelable
Oct 14 22:26:49 <zhobbs> Ohh....I see
Oct 14 22:49:50 <jasta> wow
Oct 14 22:49:57 <jasta> romainguy_: that mem cache makes a _big_ difference on perf :)
Oct 14 22:50:11 <romainguy_> :)
Oct 14 22:50:54 <MrSnowflake> I'm trying findViewById() on a view in a layout xml, which isn't set as contentView, is it normal it returns null?
Oct 14 22:52:53 <romainguy_> MrSnowflake: are you writing findViewById(R.layout.mystuff)?
Oct 14 22:53:36 <MrSnowflake> nopy findViewById(R.id.bla), but the layout didn't seem to work either
Oct 14 22:53:51 <romainguy_> but you never inflated the layout?
Oct 14 22:53:56 <romainguy_> if so, that's normal :)
Oct 14 22:53:56 <MrSnowflake> now
Oct 14 22:53:58 <MrSnowflake> *no
Oct 14 22:54:02 <MrSnowflake> ah :)
Oct 14 22:54:15 <romainguy_> if the View doesn't exist, you surely can't find it :)
Oct 14 22:54:26 <MrSnowflake> ok. then how should I use a ViewSwitcher? only with programmically made views?
Oct 14 22:54:35 <romainguy_> no
Oct 14 22:54:39 <romainguy_> just inflate the XML file
Oct 14 22:54:43 <romainguy_> either with setContentView()
Oct 14 22:54:46 <MrSnowflake> ok
Oct 14 22:54:47 <romainguy_> or with the LayoutInflater class
Oct 14 22:55:01 <romainguy_> or with View.inflate()
Oct 14 22:55:15 <MrSnowflake> and then inflate the layout?
Oct 14 22:55:24 <romainguy_> these will inflate the layout
Oct 14 22:55:27 <romainguy_> and give you a View back
Oct 14 22:55:33 <MrSnowflake> ok, thanks
Oct 14 22:55:34 <romainguy_> then you can call inflatedView.findViewByid()
Oct 14 22:56:45 <MrSnowflake> thanks again.
Oct 14 22:56:54 <MrSnowflake> another question, but not for me.
Oct 14 22:57:03 <MrSnowflake> I've seen this before but can't find it again.
Oct 14 22:57:17 <MrSnowflake> How to set in an Activity it should rotate with gravity?
Oct 14 22:58:05 <KenBW2> any idea whether a more low-cost android phone is on the way?
Oct 14 22:58:47 <plusminus_> http://www.anddev.org/handycalc_031_for_sdk_10_released_free-t3150.html
Oct 14 22:58:54 <plusminus_> I love that calculator :)
Oct 14 22:59:07 <MrSnowflake> that's awsome news +-
Oct 14 23:01:00 <chouman82> is there something similar to the port directed sms in android?
Oct 14 23:01:25 <chouman82> like using sms to start an app
Oct 14 23:01:26 <plusminus_> KenBW2: Maybe the zzzPhone :/
Oct 14 23:02:00 <plusminus_> data sms currently do not work :( (or do they already ?)
Oct 14 23:02:10 <plusminus_> so its text-parsing :)
Oct 14 23:02:18 <plusminus_> should be pretty simple
Oct 14 23:02:48 <chouman82> how do i simulate an out going sms?
Oct 14 23:03:03 <plusminus_> SMSManager
Oct 14 23:03:09 <plusminus_> search anddev.org for that
Oct 14 23:03:24 <tomgibara> plusminus_: That is one app, that's definitely going to go onto my phone
Oct 14 23:03:53 <plusminus_> if (sms.getBody().startWith('Intent:')){ startActivity(ACTION_VIEW, sms.getBody().split(":")[1]); }
Oct 14 23:03:57 <plusminus_> tomgibara: full ACK :)
Oct 14 23:04:20 <plusminus_> I had to ping the author 3 times until he started porting it to 1.0 :-D
Oct 14 23:04:43 <tomgibara> If only it wasn't buggy on orientation changes - hopefully that will get fixed
Oct 14 23:04:55 <plusminus_> he seems busy :/
Oct 14 23:05:25 <plusminus_> (he said that)
Oct 14 23:06:27 <plusminus_> tomgibara: mmin18 /at/ gmail \dot\ com
Oct 14 23:06:34 <plusminus_> thats the author
Oct 14 23:06:52 <tomgibara> plusminus_: Thanks
Oct 14 23:08:19 <plusminus_> np
Oct 14 23:15:54 * jasta plays with flicking albums now
Oct 14 23:16:02 <jasta> damn, what else can i throw a memcache at ;)
Oct 14 23:17:07 <romainguy_> as long as you use SoftReferences... :)
Oct 14 23:17:14 <_avatar> what's a memcache? i assume its in the backscroll I just cleared
Oct 14 23:18:06 <_avatar> (I think I saw discussion about it a little while ago when I wasn't paying attention)
Oct 14 23:19:08 <jasta> romainguy_: so, is hardware-assisted drawing coming at some point?  i'm wondering because of my reflection effect...
Oct 14 23:19:25 <jasta> hardware assisted drawing would presumably make scaling, rotation, and alpha blending _much_ faster, right?
Oct 14 23:19:25 <romainguy_> we still want to do it
Oct 14 23:19:31 <romainguy_> but not roadmap for this yet
Oct 14 23:19:38 <romainguy_> but in your case that doesn't matter
Oct 14 23:19:43 <jasta> no?
Oct 14 23:19:55 <romainguy_> because you don't need high perf fps
Oct 14 23:20:01 <romainguy_> and you could easily cache the result in a bitmap
Oct 14 23:21:04 <jasta> i plan to at some point
Oct 14 23:21:15 <jasta> but the reason i don't now, actually, is because i'm still revising the look of that screen
Oct 14 23:21:35 <jasta> and if i made a cache system everytime i want to tweak it i'd have to clear and rebuild it
Oct 14 23:21:53 <jasta> (the cache system would do this at the time the album artwork comes in from the server, not on demand)
Oct 14 23:33:07 <_avatar> just read the logs, i thought you guys were referring to some memory cache object or mechanism. nevermind, stupid question.
Oct 14 23:34:49 <Martyn> Would someone mind testing the current emulator to see if setChekced(true) is doing the right thing in a CheckedTextView?
Oct 14 23:35:15 <Martyn> I just -can't- get it to set the checkbox on .. and I'd like to have a preset default checked in the interface...
Oct 14 23:35:40 <Martyn> Checking the value to console, I can clearly see isChecked is true.
Oct 14 23:36:00 <Martyn> But the UI doesn't reflect it ... neither does it work when loaded on the hardware.
Oct 14 23:37:07 <romainguy_> did you set the check mark drawable?
Oct 14 23:37:25 <plusminus_> romainguy do you have an idea, what could be wrong with my SDK/ADT/eclipse setup when the only way to get gps-info is via  telnet  and 'geo fix lat lon' ?
Oct 14 23:37:48 <plusminus_> (so its not working via DDMS :( )
Oct 14 23:38:06 <plusminus_> (completely !)
Oct 14 23:38:06 <tomgibara> Martyn: Best to check the basic things... are you sure you're looking at the checkbox you're calling the method on?
Oct 14 23:38:06 <romainguy_> no idea, I never used the GPS stuff
Oct 14 23:38:12 <plusminus_> kk
Oct 14 23:38:24 <romainguy_> Martyn: the CheckedTextView works fine for me
Oct 14 23:38:38 <Martyn> tomgibara : Yes, definitely.
Oct 14 23:38:56 <Martyn> roamain : Good, that means it's an issue with my build, and not with the emulator.  Thanks.
Oct 14 23:39:30 <plusminus_> romainguy did you do that photo? ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/2936662469/sizes/l/ )
Oct 14 23:39:33 <plusminus_> I damn love it !!!
Oct 14 23:39:38 <romainguy_> plusminus_: I did
Oct 14 23:40:26 <plusminus_> its awesome !
Oct 14 23:40:55 <romainguy_> glad you like it :)_)
Oct 14 23:41:23 <_avatar> did you use an orange/warm filter for that?
Oct 14 23:42:03 <plusminus_> I like all your photos. i hope this one is not to dark as a G1-wallpaper ;)
Oct 14 23:42:19 <romainguy_> _avatar: I didn't use any filter on this one I think
Oct 14 23:42:24 <romainguy_> plusminus_: lol
Oct 14 23:45:22 <Martyn> If it is, you can pre-process it in Gimp to the right gamma
Oct 14 23:50:37 <gdsx> romainguy: that's pretty sweet
Oct 15 00:03:32 <chouman82> is sms recieve a broacast intent? meaning i won't be able to send a port directed that's specifcly for a certain applicaiton as in j2me?
Oct 15 00:06:24 <gdsx> chouman82: I wasn't able to parse that question (not that I'd know the answer)
Oct 15 00:09:51 <chouman82> oh cuz in like j2me you can send a port directed sms
Oct 15 00:10:24 <chouman82> what that does is, once the phone received the port directed sms then the application that was registered to the port will automatically start up
Oct 15 00:43:06 <jasta> sorry, i'm not especially familiar with sophisticated debugging in java...
Oct 15 00:43:27 <duey> I have never had the need to use a debugger
Oct 15 00:43:29 <jasta> but what would be a good strategy to figuring out what objects are being collected in a GC pass?
Oct 15 00:43:52 <jasta> trying to optimize some allocations occurring when i fling, but i'm not sure what they would be...
Oct 15 00:52:38 <gambler> there is the finalize() method
Oct 15 02:01:33 * umdk1d3 hops up and down
Oct 15 02:12:25 <taaz> I left my emu running all day and it tells me "Romain Guy has updated photos".  interesting to see that photostream code actually works. :)  nice pics.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 15 02:59:57 2008