**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 15 02:59:57 2008
Oct 15 03:08:28 <askpriz> man, you guys talk waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much in here.
Oct 15 03:08:35 <askpriz> I can't handle the speed of the scroll
Oct 15 03:08:44 <umdk1d3> lol was that being sarcastic?  :P
Oct 15 03:08:56 <summatusmentis> no, I think he's serious
Oct 15 03:09:12 <umdk1d3> we need to talk alot more
Oct 15 03:09:16 <askpriz> whoa! slow down
Oct 15 03:09:21 <askpriz> I need to read this in detail first
Oct 15 03:09:21 <Disconnect> pot will do that to you sometimes :)
Oct 15 03:09:23 <umdk1d3> i mean the freaking phone is coming out in about a week
Oct 15 03:09:35 <summatusmentis> I'm not buying the phone
Oct 15 03:09:44 <askpriz> who, me? Sarcastic?
Oct 15 03:09:55 <askpriz> :)
Oct 15 03:10:28 <summatusmentis> umdk1d3: I'll buy one when there's a Sprint one :)
Oct 15 03:10:47 <umdk1d3> i wonder how many apps we'll see popping up in market after launch
Oct 15 03:10:58 <askpriz> umdk1d3: quite a few.
Oct 15 03:11:01 <umdk1d3> versus how many ppl are going to wait a few weeks to test on real hardware
Oct 15 03:11:10 <askpriz> from what I can tell
Oct 15 03:11:23 * Disconnect isn't spending weeks writing his (simple) app, its unlikely to take weeks to test
Oct 15 03:11:24 <umdk1d3> thats one thing the iphone store had going for them--devs had already tested on real devices
Oct 15 03:11:27 <askpriz> a few people are waiting until they have hardware in hand to tweak their apps to their liking
Oct 15 03:11:28 <Disconnect> well.. ok not totally unlikely but still
Oct 15 03:11:57 <umdk1d3> im a little nervous about the quality of the apps though
Oct 15 03:11:57 <askpriz> working on my first app with a friend in Japan, once his iPhone game is released and he's taken a break from that.
Oct 15 03:12:13 <umdk1d3> i mean, i look back at what i was writing even a month ago, and it was junk  :/
Oct 15 03:12:24 <umdk1d3> junk meaning i could have written in much more efficiently
Oct 15 03:12:30 <askpriz> umdk: lots of unpolished junk flooding the market?
Oct 15 03:12:44 <umdk1d3> askpriz: well idk, we will see
Oct 15 03:13:00 <umdk1d3> i think the most important thing will be helping with some sort of upgrade process
Oct 15 03:13:19 <askpriz> upgrade?
Oct 15 03:13:34 <umdk1d3> well, if you release a new version of your app, you probably want me to upgrade
Oct 15 03:13:37 <askpriz> the system should have some sort of package manager
Oct 15 03:13:43 <askpriz> which can check for updates
Oct 15 03:14:09 <askpriz> I need to get my order in with our supplier for some 16GB MicroSD's before the launch
Oct 15 03:14:26 <unix_infidel> there were some 8GB microsd deals a while back.
Oct 15 03:14:41 <umdk1d3> will any microsds work? or is there some sort of high-capacity standard to watch out for?
Oct 15 03:14:44 <askpriz> we have Sandisk right now at work
Oct 15 03:14:47 <askpriz> for 8GB
Oct 15 03:15:03 <askpriz> umdk: MicroSD and MicroSDHC will work fine
Oct 15 03:15:09 <askpriz> aim for Class 4 or 6
Oct 15 03:15:16 <askpriz> don't go with cheaper class 2 stuff
Oct 15 03:15:19 <askpriz> we stopped carrying that.
Oct 15 03:15:39 <umdk1d3> kk, yea i picked up an 8gb card for like $40 iirc
Oct 15 03:16:34 <askpriz> http://www.memoryx.net/tf8gbsd.html
Oct 15 03:16:35 <unix_infidel> umdk1d3: seems a bit pricy, 20 seems like the average.
Oct 15 03:16:52 <unix_infidel> (on a good day)
Oct 15 03:17:19 <umdk1d3> yea i picked it up at frys, so i didnt expect too much of a deal
Oct 15 03:17:20 <askpriz> we have 16gb MicroSD's on order which should be on sale for around $65
Oct 15 03:17:28 <askpriz> or rather, I need to put the order in
Oct 15 03:17:49 <unix_infidel> umdk1d3: lol, well obviously 40 bucks is no big thing to someone who expects to profit rather well from their app.
Oct 15 03:18:53 <umdk1d3> :P
Oct 15 03:18:58 <Lenolium> So, should I have my app ready in time how do I go about getting it on the main app marketplace?
Oct 15 03:19:05 <umdk1d3> i dont expect to be profit
Oct 15 03:19:19 <umdk1d3> Lenolium: they havent released details yet
Oct 15 03:19:26 <umdk1d3> but we are getting awfully close to launch
Oct 15 03:19:44 <unix_infidel> notice "they" havent been very active these last two weeks.
Oct 15 03:20:08 <umdk1d3> i have a feeling thats because of all the prep work they have to do for the opensource dump
Oct 15 03:20:19 <unix_infidel> umdk1d3: my point exactly.
Oct 15 03:20:22 <umdk1d3> i mean, whens the last time someone just /dumped/ an entire OS stack lol
Oct 15 03:20:45 <unix_infidel> windows CE?
Oct 15 03:21:01 <Disconnect> symbian is working on it, in the same space even. and with no prior expectation. google went in with the expectation of going OS, its nuts that they weren't ready..
Oct 15 03:21:02 <umdk1d3> well, i mean the source
Oct 15 03:21:17 <umdk1d3> heh, me chuckles at all the market leaks @ http://androidcommunity.com/
Oct 15 03:21:22 <unix_infidel> umdk1d3: well yea.  I mean that CE was so niche i dont think they went through a proper beta.
Oct 15 03:22:04 <umdk1d3> heh yea
Oct 15 03:22:08 <umdk1d3> i had a wince 1.0 device
Oct 15 03:24:17 <unix_infidel> hmm, Touch HD rumors are about and fierce.
Oct 15 03:25:53 <umdk1d3> hmm im itching for somethign to write as we come down to the wire
Oct 15 03:26:59 <unix_infidel> code or blog?
Oct 15 03:30:17 <umdk1d3> code
Oct 15 03:30:30 <umdk1d3> i suppose i have stuff to blog about too
Oct 15 03:30:40 <umdk1d3> but at this point i think apps would have bigger impact
Oct 15 03:34:30 <askpriz> umdk: there are some dumb posters on there.
Oct 15 03:34:44 <askpriz> http://androidcommunity.com/forums/24270-post4.html
Oct 15 03:34:51 <askpriz> Yay all of the apps seem to be free!!!
Oct 15 03:35:32 <askpriz> and it's like no one knows what search is. They just recreate the same topics over and over and over.
Oct 15 03:37:37 <askpriz> maybe I've just been doing this for too long :)
Oct 15 03:41:05 <umdk1d3> lol
Oct 15 03:41:17 <umdk1d3> sadly thats the way most forums are
Oct 15 04:15:18 <plusminus_> is there any way to get the screen-size without a context reference ?
Oct 15 04:15:41 <plusminus_> Display dd = WindowManagerImpl.getDefault().getDefaultDisplay();
Oct 15 04:15:44 <plusminus_> is invalid since 1.0
Oct 15 04:59:07 * jasta raises an eyebrow
Oct 15 04:59:16 <jasta> is Android's long primitive 32 bit?
Oct 15 05:00:37 <romainguy> no
Oct 15 05:00:39 <romainguy> it's 64 bits
Oct 15 05:00:44 <romainguy> just like in regular Java
Oct 15 05:01:16 <romainguy> it's signed though...
Oct 15 05:01:24 <jasta> oh, nevermind, i see what's happening
Oct 15 05:01:36 <jasta> stupid StatFs#getAvailableBlocks is returning an int
Oct 15 05:05:13 <muthu_> joot
Oct 15 05:06:00 <muthu_> http://gizmodo.com/5063349/motorola-working-on-android+based-social-networking-smartphone
Oct 15 05:06:09 <muthu_> android powered SN
Oct 15 05:09:15 <plusminus_> what is a "Social Networking Smartphone" o_O
Oct 15 05:09:46 <gambler> ContactList.java
Oct 15 05:09:51 <muthu_> its like facebook built in your phone
Oct 15 05:09:57 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 15 05:10:14 <muthu_> contacts & strangers.
Oct 15 05:10:28 <ismarc> It sounds like a MySpace junky's needle to me
Oct 15 05:10:42 <muthu_> there are different SN's
Oct 15 05:10:49 <muthu_> to all sorta crowds
Oct 15 05:11:35 <ismarc> so, up until now I've stayed pretty quiet on the Android front, but I've got a simple question that's a huge bag of worms
Oct 15 05:11:40 <plusminus_> I hope they'll still leave a bit of Android ;)
Oct 15 05:11:58 <muthu_> Android can be anything
Oct 15 05:12:19 <muthu_> the platform will enable all kinda of software
Oct 15 05:12:23 <ismarc> Does anyone know of anyone working on an email client, or have any good rumors of Google's client being open sourced?
Oct 15 05:12:52 <gambler> google has an email client?
Oct 15 05:13:04 <ismarc> there's one with the phone
Oct 15 05:13:09 <ismarc> G1 phone
Oct 15 05:15:40 <muthu_> anyone looking at motorola jobs?
Oct 15 05:16:24 <muthu_> most of moto jobs in sunnyvale
Oct 15 05:16:27 <muthu_> nice place
Oct 15 05:16:40 <ismarc> I had a friend who used to work for motorola as a developer and didn't enjoy it
Oct 15 05:16:47 <summatusmentis> plusminus_: honestly, my centro has a facebook client, and the best part about it is being able to call pople's numbers as listed on facebook
Oct 15 05:16:49 <ismarc> he likened the schedules to working for a game developer
Oct 15 05:17:20 <muthu_> yeah, not sure how the moto work culture is
Oct 15 05:20:18 <muthu_> Will  Android provide any APN(Access Point Name) of its own, to enable
Oct 15 05:20:18 <muthu_> users to access WWW.
Oct 15 05:20:18 <muthu_> Or the current APNs defined by the service providers be used?
Oct 15 05:20:38 <plusminus_> gn8 guys
Oct 15 05:41:34 <ismarc> oh yeah, I got all distracted mid-thought
Oct 15 05:41:55 <ismarc> I've been working on an API for MS Exchange integration with their WebDAV and Web Services setup
Oct 15 05:42:15 <ismarc> as well as use of IMAP idle for pseudo push-like behavior
Oct 15 05:42:49 <ismarc> and was wondering on the email client side to make sure it was usable for others so I wouldn't have to write a client myeslf
Oct 15 05:42:52 <ismarc> myself even
Oct 15 05:43:17 <muthu_> doesn't the built in do that
Oct 15 05:43:29 <ismarc> according to all the reports, no built-in exchange support
Oct 15 05:43:59 <muthu_> oh ok
Oct 15 05:44:44 <ismarc> I've been pushing myself to have it done by the 22nd, but if there isn't a client to use it, no real point in that sorta deadline
Oct 15 05:45:22 <muthu_> right
Oct 15 06:01:43 <gdsx> muthu_: what do you mean an APN of its own?
Oct 15 06:02:01 <gdsx> muthu_: I'm not super-familiar with how they work, but from what I understand, APNs are carrier-specific
Oct 15 06:02:13 <muthu_> gdsx: that's a query send to me.. trying to figure what it is
Oct 15 07:01:56 <umdk1d3> ismarc: are you planning to opensource your exchange work?
Oct 15 07:05:33 <ismarc> yeah
Oct 15 07:06:08 <ismarc> sorry if there was a delay, I was usurped for a bit
Oct 15 07:06:49 <ismarc> practically all my free time coding is open source...work is the stuff that isn't
Oct 15 07:07:12 <umdk1d3> oh awesome
Oct 15 07:07:34 <umdk1d3> how finished is your backend, that is, ready for a gui to be wrapped around it?
Oct 15 07:08:11 <ismarc> it's not that far along yet
Oct 15 07:08:27 <ismarc> I've got the framework laid out, and the underlying communications structures in place
Oct 15 07:08:48 <ismarc> going through setting up all the WebDAV and IMAP stuff right now
Oct 15 07:08:57 <umdk1d3> ahic
Oct 15 07:09:12 <umdk1d3> is webdav enalbed out of the box with exchange, or is it another plugin?
Oct 15 07:09:35 <umdk1d3> also, how easy does it make contact/calendar access?
Oct 15 07:09:36 <ismarc> I think it's a feature that's just turned off.  If owa is enabled, webdav has to be
Oct 15 07:09:44 <umdk1d3> ahic
Oct 15 07:10:15 <umdk1d3> i could see it being kickbutt if synced in your outlook contacts
Oct 15 07:10:22 <umdk1d3> that might be possible, not sure
Oct 15 07:10:33 <ismarc> webdav access is, uh, complicated.  For my API, I'm setting it up so you can do something like "searchContactFirstName(String) and get an array of results
Oct 15 07:10:42 <umdk1d3> if there was some way of flagging to tell it not to sync those back against your gmail
Oct 15 07:10:49 <ismarc> or get an index and access that way
Oct 15 07:11:02 <ismarc> yeah, those are all the complications I didn't want to deal with on top of the API :)
Oct 15 07:11:28 <ismarc> design easy to use interfaces for it and let someone focus on the local management portion
Oct 15 07:11:50 <umdk1d3> i remember that someone had opensourced something after the tmob announcement related to exchange support
Oct 15 07:11:55 <umdk1d3> cant remember the specifics about that though
Oct 15 07:12:24 <ismarc> it's funambol, not really exchange support
Oct 15 07:12:26 <umdk1d3> im also trying to understand what benefits a "real" exchange client would give over, say, just using imap
Oct 15 07:12:55 <ismarc> imap with exchange has some synchronization issues, as well as not being able to populate tasks and calendar entries
Oct 15 07:13:13 <ismarc> and imap is less likely to be enabled in exchange than webdav
Oct 15 07:13:32 <umdk1d3> hmm
Oct 15 07:14:30 <ismarc> you can't do push email without activesync though
Oct 15 07:14:53 <ismarc> which has some heavy usage agreements just to see the API, and hefty licensing on top of it
Oct 15 07:15:08 <ismarc> so it's something that can't reasonably be open sourced
Oct 15 07:17:23 <umdk1d3> :(
Oct 15 07:18:22 <ismarc> I've been playing around with imap connections that support "idle" and notifications, but it doesn't behave well on the emulator (randomly closing sockets, random crashes, etc.)
Oct 15 07:18:43 <ismarc> if it worked well, it would appear the same as push
Oct 15 07:22:17 <umdk1d3> hmm
Oct 15 07:22:40 <umdk1d3> i wonder if there was a good way of seeing who dropped those connections
Oct 15 07:22:43 <umdk1d3> server or client end
Oct 15 07:22:51 <umdk1d3> and repeating to see if it was a lower-level timeout
Oct 15 07:23:23 <ismarc> it was definately client side, but I haven't been able to figure out what dropped the actual connection
Oct 15 07:23:31 <umdk1d3> and i think sockets might behave oddly on cell connections
Oct 15 07:23:36 <ismarc> yeah
Oct 15 07:37:44 <ismarc> and it's bedtime for me
Oct 15 07:38:04 <ismarc> night folks, and I'll probably be around frequently now
Oct 15 07:46:59 <umdk1d3> hmm crazy
Oct 15 07:47:08 <umdk1d3> today was 25th aniversery of first cell phone call
Oct 15 07:47:32 <muthu_> krazy
Oct 15 07:47:55 <umdk1d3> ohhmm it was actually on sunday
Oct 15 07:47:57 <umdk1d3> http://www.suntimes.com/technology/1217486,CST-NWS-moto13.article
Oct 15 07:49:32 <umdk1d3> hmm has anyone seen any tmobile commercials for the G1?  i wonder if they are waiting til after it launches
Oct 15 07:50:13 <muthu_> no commercials yet?
Oct 15 07:53:06 <umdk1d3> none that ive seen
Oct 15 07:53:16 <muthu_> surprisin
Oct 15 07:53:23 <umdk1d3> ive mythtv'ed some major primetime stuff and skipped through the commercials
Oct 15 07:53:34 <umdk1d3> they might be targeting 3g areas instead of nationwide
Oct 15 07:53:48 <muthu_> hmm
Oct 15 07:54:55 <cutmasta> umdk1d3,
Oct 15 07:54:57 <cutmasta> http://www.intomobile.com/2008/09/23/first-g1-commercial-pops-up-google-funnerer.html
Oct 15 07:56:26 <umdk1d3> cutmasta: yea that was out right after the announcement
Oct 15 07:56:40 <umdk1d3> it was posted on youtube by someone related to htc iirc
Oct 15 07:56:50 <umdk1d3> but never really confirmed that it was aired
Oct 15 07:57:02 <cutmasta> umdk1d3, ah, ok, dont know any other commercial
Oct 15 08:11:26 <languish> not sure what the protocol is here, but.. I was wondering if there's been any info on the g1 having potential for video output? perhaps through the esbEXT port?
Oct 15 08:11:42 <languish> *usbext
Oct 15 08:11:57 <languish> (and hi)
Oct 15 08:15:15 <umdk1d3> hmm
Oct 15 08:15:19 <umdk1d3> interesting
Oct 15 08:15:33 <umdk1d3> so from our point of view, there isnt anything super special about extusb
Oct 15 08:15:39 <umdk1d3> its normal usb with some audio pins
Oct 15 08:15:53 <umdk1d3> what might be possible is turning the usb port into host mode
Oct 15 08:15:56 <umdk1d3> instead of being a client
Oct 15 08:16:10 <umdk1d3> not sure how easy that is from a kernel perspective
Oct 15 08:16:28 <umdk1d3> then host usb devices off it, like a flash drive, or usb vga adapter
Oct 15 08:16:46 <umdk1d3> all complete speculation, but its linux, so lots of things are possible
Oct 15 08:16:47 <umdk1d3> ;)
Oct 15 08:17:05 <languish> what I'm interested in, is using it with something like a video visor.. similar to what's being sold on woot.com right now
Oct 15 08:17:26 <languish> but that would require a composite and stereo output
Oct 15 08:17:37 <languish> I do it now with a zune
Oct 15 08:17:41 <umdk1d3> right, which the g1 doesnt have
Oct 15 08:17:43 <umdk1d3> afaik
Oct 15 08:18:10 <languish> yeah, zune does it through the 3.5" "stereo" jack, the way some camcorders do
Oct 15 08:18:20 <umdk1d3> and that device on woot only uses usb for charging looks like
Oct 15 08:18:30 <umdk1d3> ohic so mono sound+composite
Oct 15 08:18:48 <languish> well, I'd like stereo sound + composite, lol
Oct 15 08:19:04 <languish> but yeah you get the idea
Oct 15 08:19:46 <languish> i didn't know if perhaps something in the hardware design with the graphics chip/circuit board/usbext port would make it possible
Oct 15 08:20:06 <languish> I've seen some chinese devices that do it
Oct 15 08:22:09 <umdk1d3> yea im not sure
Oct 15 08:22:17 <umdk1d3> i cant wait to see someone take it apart with detailed pics
Oct 15 08:22:23 <umdk1d3> to find out whats under the hood
Oct 15 08:23:51 <languish> I'm suprised that hasn't happened yet with all the devices floating around already
Oct 15 08:24:11 <languish> gotta admire the respect google's commanding on this
Oct 15 08:27:53 <exman> how can i delete sqlite db ?
Oct 15 08:40:35 <illusion_> everybody's sleeping?
Oct 15 08:43:33 <illusion> 'ã……'
Oct 15 08:43:52 <muthu_> illusion: what up
Oct 15 08:44:55 <illusion> good
Oct 15 08:44:58 <illusion> um..
Oct 15 08:45:11 <illusion> i have one question. can u answer it?
Oct 15 08:45:20 <illusion> bout sqlite
Oct 15 08:45:20 <muthu_> shoot
Oct 15 08:45:24 <illusion> cool
Oct 15 08:45:58 <illusion> i did notepad tutorials than now i wanna delete db files but i have no idea with that.
Oct 15 08:46:17 <illusion> i think that should be in data directory
Oct 15 08:46:20 <muthu_> its all files in the data folder
Oct 15 08:46:21 <illusion> but there isnt
Oct 15 08:46:24 <muthu_> so probably delete them as files
Oct 15 08:46:28 <illusion> really?
Oct 15 08:46:38 <illusion> i checked it.
Oct 15 08:46:40 <muthu_> data/data/your.application/databases
Oct 15 08:46:51 <illusion> cool man! thx
Oct 15 08:46:58 <muthu_> np
Oct 15 08:47:00 <illusion> im checking now
Oct 15 08:47:10 <muthu_> it'll be safe there ;)
Oct 15 08:47:58 <illusion> i found it. thx alot
Oct 15 08:48:05 <muthu_> cool
Oct 15 08:50:38 <illusion> muthu: where ru from?
Oct 15 08:50:47 <illusion> im first with irc today.
Oct 15 08:51:02 <muthu_> chennai, india
Oct 15 08:51:18 <illusion> oh, im korean.
Oct 15 08:51:19 <muthu_> wher u from?
Oct 15 08:51:24 <muthu_> gr8
Oct 15 08:51:27 <muthu_> good to have you here
Oct 15 08:51:31 <muthu_> welcome
Oct 15 08:52:08 <illusion> me too. i will bother u, haha
Oct 15 08:52:16 <illusion> with android stuffs.
Oct 15 08:52:31 <muthu_> sure.. search the developer forums first
Oct 15 08:52:40 <muthu_> still not found.. ask here
Oct 15 08:52:47 <muthu_> lot of people ready to help
Oct 15 08:52:55 <illusion> sweet
Oct 15 09:00:22 <illusion> hey guys! somebody wake up?
Oct 15 09:00:47 <illusion> oh sorry type wrong.
Oct 15 09:37:47 * umdk1d3 is somewhat awake
Oct 15 09:38:04 <umdk1d3> yay more legal paperwork to sign  :/
Oct 15 09:38:18 <muthu_> another nda?
Oct 15 09:39:44 <umdk1d3> lol @ topic
Oct 15 09:42:48 <umdk1d3> i wonder what the lead time will be on the market announcement before devices hit the streets
Oct 15 09:43:13 <muthu_> been wondering the same thing for so long
Oct 15 09:43:29 <umdk1d3> i mean, here we are a week away
Oct 15 09:43:54 <muthu_> yeah, and we don't know when market opens
Oct 15 09:43:56 <umdk1d3> if they announce on teh 22nd, there will be alot of scrambling developers
Oct 15 09:44:06 <muthu_> dont think so
Oct 15 09:44:41 <muthu_> even us developers don't have device to test.. so
Oct 15 09:44:51 <umdk1d3> hmm true
Oct 15 09:45:04 <muthu_> only a few apps will hit on 22
Oct 15 09:45:18 <umdk1d3> some apps are already ready, the ones that dont really need mediaplayer or anything special
Oct 15 09:45:38 <muthu_> must be like 10 or so
Oct 15 09:46:10 <umdk1d3> 10 non-special apps?  o.o
Oct 15 09:46:20 <umdk1d3> i mean, you dont really need a device to test a twitter client
Oct 15 09:46:55 <muthu_> yeah, but not many will take that risk
Oct 15 09:47:15 <umdk1d3> getting apps out FAST is critial though
Oct 15 09:47:19 <umdk1d3> you get that many more eyeballs
Oct 15 09:47:27 <muthu_> oh yeah
Oct 15 09:47:29 <muthu_> you get branding
Oct 15 09:47:37 <muthu_> good or bad, you'll know ;)
Oct 15 09:47:42 <umdk1d3> wah?  branding?
Oct 15 09:47:52 <muthu_> yeah
Oct 15 09:48:03 <muthu_> you put a bar code scanner for example
Oct 15 09:48:45 <muthu_> it'll be there until a better one comes along
Oct 15 09:48:46 <umdk1d3> define:branding --> "The process of creating a unique, positive and recognizable identity for a product or service. "
Oct 15 09:48:55 <muthu_> yup
Oct 15 09:48:59 <muthu_> when you are the first
Oct 15 09:49:03 <muthu_> you are the brand
Oct 15 09:49:33 <umdk1d3> true, its hard to overcome that
Oct 15 09:49:46 <umdk1d3> so imho releasing fast is going to be key
Oct 15 09:50:01 <muthu_> that's why the market is not playing fair
Oct 15 09:50:07 <umdk1d3> i would be very curious of the usage patters of the apple app store
Oct 15 09:50:10 <languish> they're having a release party tomorrow in nyc
Oct 15 09:50:12 <umdk1d3> like, how often people go back
Oct 15 09:50:19 <languish> I would say tomorrow or friday
Oct 15 09:50:26 <umdk1d3> languish: orly?  another tmobile event?
Oct 15 09:50:45 <languish> it's a private event appearently
Oct 15 09:50:47 <languish> hang on
Oct 15 09:50:53 <umdk1d3> oh interesting  ^.^
Oct 15 09:50:57 <muthu_> ooh
Oct 15 09:51:03 <umdk1d3> thats crazy though, that all this is happening in NYC
Oct 15 09:51:10 <umdk1d3> when pretty much everyone working on it is on west coast
Oct 15 09:51:15 <muthu_> haha
Oct 15 09:51:21 <umdk1d3> tmobile usa hq is in seattle, google in calif
Oct 15 09:51:30 <muthu_> but users in NY
Oct 15 09:52:07 <umdk1d3> no more users than other 3g areas
Oct 15 09:52:21 <umdk1d3> lots of press is in NY i guess
Oct 15 09:52:41 <muthu_> if you launch something, launch in NY
Oct 15 09:53:12 <muthu_> that's the way it got to be ;)
Oct 15 09:53:20 <umdk1d3> i disagree  :P
Oct 15 09:53:57 <muthu_> where would you launch?
Oct 15 09:58:03 <umdk1d3> dearing, kansa
Oct 15 09:58:11 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 15 09:58:45 <muthu_> G1 launching in Big Apple makes a whole lotta sense
Oct 15 09:59:02 <umdk1d3> but dearing kansas is at the center of google maps
Oct 15 09:59:43 <muthu_> won't mind if they launch in chennai :)
Oct 15 10:00:54 <languish> ah here
Oct 15 10:00:56 <languish> http://blogs.zdnet.com/cell-phones/?p=173
Oct 15 10:01:10 <languish> pribate launch party for the g1
Oct 15 10:01:13 <languish> *rivate
Oct 15 10:01:59 <umdk1d3> grr
Oct 15 10:02:03 <umdk1d3> languish: thanks for that link btw
Oct 15 10:02:05 <muthu_> languish: thx for the news
Oct 15 10:02:08 <languish> np
Oct 15 10:02:15 <muthu_> posting in the forums..
Oct 15 10:02:34 <umdk1d3> if they /are/ sending preorders sooner than 22nd, that might mean that market announcement happens by end of this week?
Oct 15 10:03:11 <languish> it looks like Vincent from androidcommunity will be there, though he doesn't state it outright.. the timing of his being in manhattan.. http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f32/im-in-manhattan-thursday-oct-16th-2305/#post22108
Oct 15 10:04:11 <muthu_> nice
Oct 15 10:05:18 <languish> ahh
Oct 15 10:05:24 <languish> yep ye says it oficially
Oct 15 10:05:49 <languish> ok, typing with my left arm asleep isn't working
Oct 15 11:48:47 <kslater> nice topic
Oct 15 11:48:52 <kslater> :-)
Oct 15 12:59:16 <umdk1d3> rooofl i just realized what else oct 22 is
Oct 15 13:00:44 <umdk1d3> http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/22/happy-international-caps-lock-day/
Oct 15 13:02:26 <living_sword> NICE
Oct 15 13:09:11 <pardom> plusminus_: i noticed your opengl posts on anddev... do you have recomendations for game libraries?
Oct 15 13:09:46 <pardom> engines*
Oct 15 13:16:01 <plusminus_> the only one I know is that 'AllBinary' thing. But the demos they made are not that nice
Oct 15 13:18:40 <pardom> ok i'll check it out
Oct 15 13:19:21 <pardom> does it use opengl es?
Oct 15 13:19:53 <plusminus_> dunno
Oct 15 14:05:09 <umdk1d3> people are awesome  ^.^
Oct 15 14:05:15 <umdk1d3> http://twistori.com/
Oct 15 14:08:25 <Disconnect> neat
Oct 15 14:08:34 <Disconnect> but inane
Oct 15 14:09:10 <umdk1d3> pointless sometimes, but today i needed to just randomly watch it for a few minutes
Oct 15 14:09:18 <umdk1d3> and laugh along with someone, somewhere
Oct 15 14:12:39 * umdk1d3 considers sleeping for awhile
Oct 15 14:22:33 * Disconnect has decided he's never gonna use the app he was writing, which makes writing it kinda pointless.
Oct 15 14:22:41 <Disconnect> but i'll prolly finish it anyway before moving on to the ones i will use
Oct 15 14:24:18 <zer0her0> what app?
Oct 15 14:25:04 <Disconnect> been putting together a flashcard app, might finish it anyway. simple thing, charge next to nothing for it, etc.
Oct 15 14:25:18 <Disconnect> lost some momentum when tea.ch came out tho :) nothing nearly that fancy
Oct 15 14:26:10 <zer0her0> ah gotcha
Oct 15 14:26:12 <zer0her0> yea that never helps
Oct 15 14:27:57 * Disconnect is working on a heavy WAF tho, she made me rewrite half the interface last night
Oct 15 14:29:22 <zer0her0> WAF?
Oct 15 14:30:08 <Disconnect> wife acceptance factor
Oct 15 14:30:45 <Disconnect> (and i caught a buglet - EditText and TextView can be used interchangeably, but its not a Good Thing. doh. code was written for one, xml was using the other..)
Oct 15 14:33:10 <zer0her0> hehe
Oct 15 14:34:02 <Disconnect> its time to get dirty, either with file import/export or with sqlite.
Oct 15 14:34:04 <Disconnect> :(
Oct 15 14:34:33 <zer0her0> :(
Oct 15 14:35:00 <Disconnect> cuz i don't htink anyone wants a flashcard app that just says "This is question 11111111" and "1Answer is 42" or "Hint2 is the best hint ever" :)
Oct 15 14:35:05 <Disconnect> and its only got 4 cards
Oct 15 14:35:57 <zer0her0> i would
Oct 15 14:36:01 <zer0her0> wait probably not
Oct 15 14:36:02 <zer0her0> sorrry.
Oct 15 14:36:49 <Disconnect> yah not even for 50c?
Oct 15 14:37:01 <Disconnect> cuz that part all works great. i can send it right now :)
Oct 15 14:37:06 <zer0her0> haha
Oct 15 14:37:07 <Disconnect> i'll even customize your cards
Oct 15 14:37:14 <Disconnect> up to 8 of them for the same low low price
Oct 15 14:37:53 <Disconnect> oooh and they get categories. like "1Animals" and "category 2" and "A walk in the park sounds like a fun thing to do in the summer"
Oct 15 14:38:01 <Disconnect> (that one didn't fit in portrait, but i want to handle it anyway. gotta decide how)
Oct 15 14:38:28 <zer0her0> man you're a good salesman
Oct 15 14:38:30 <Disconnect> i'll even go so far as to remove the numbers, so you'll never know if it associates the wrong card with the wrong hint :)
Oct 15 14:38:44 <zer0her0> smart
Oct 15 14:46:33 <jasta> yawn
Oct 15 14:46:51 <jasta> i am trying to work out a way to take the 22nd off work :)
Oct 15 14:47:08 <jasta> gonna get up early, buy a phone, and not think of my job again until the next morning :)
Oct 15 14:48:08 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 15 14:48:28 * Disconnect has doc appt and PT in the am anyway, so a work-from-home day is inevitable
Oct 15 14:48:34 <zer0her0> flat tire, stolen car, all your pants are mysteriously gone?!
Oct 15 14:48:41 <Disconnect> random side note, is my.t-mobile.com down for anyone else?
Oct 15 14:49:00 <Disconnect> and fyi people are getting shipment notifications with estimated dates as early as monday (and its possible friday, but i haven't seen one)
Oct 15 14:49:18 <Dougie187> jasta: what if they don't have any phones?
Oct 15 14:49:19 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 15 14:50:11 <jasta> dude i will lose it
Oct 15 14:50:19 <jasta> but still, the topic tells me something else is happening :)
Oct 15 14:50:25 <jasta> maybe source drop?  mmm? :)
Oct 15 14:50:56 <Dougie187> maybe.
Oct 15 14:51:07 <jasta> i can't remember what i have to do to get my number ported
Oct 15 14:51:18 <Dougie187> fill out some papers.
Oct 15 14:51:23 <Dougie187> and wait a couple days or something
Oct 15 14:51:37 <jasta> so do i just get a temp number in the mean time?
Oct 15 14:52:18 <jasta> also, re the device, i'm planning to call around and check wher eavailability is best and go there very early in the morning
Oct 15 14:52:31 <jasta> so barring some sort of disaster situation, i'll have one :)
Oct 15 14:52:38 <jasta> i am _really_ excited :P
Oct 15 14:53:29 <unix_lappy> what would really suck if if i signed a new contract and I had to wait 24 hours after going instore before the phone worked.
Oct 15 14:53:52 <jasta> why would that be the case?
Oct 15 14:53:59 <Disconnect> does it take that long? istr going with a friend to switch tmob to att last year (he wanted an iphone, sigh) and it was something like 30 mins
Oct 15 14:54:12 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: disproportionate demand.
Oct 15 14:54:16 <unix_lappy> new 3g network.
Oct 15 14:54:16 <Disconnect> (and yes, he could have moved his sim, but didn't)
Oct 15 14:54:17 <jasta> yeah thats been my experience
Oct 15 14:54:35 <unix_lappy> yea, last time i did a voice line it was like 15 minutes.
Oct 15 15:00:04 <jasta> *excited* :)
Oct 15 15:00:12 <jasta> i gotta start calling around to find the store that i'm gonna target
Oct 15 15:00:23 <Disconnect> lol
Oct 15 15:00:33 <jasta> the one in the u district will almost certainly be my best bet, but i want to be sure
Oct 15 15:01:47 <unix_lappy> I wonder how much more expensive the Touch HD's successor will be when they release it as an Android phone.
Oct 15 15:04:40 <wastrel> you have to call?
Oct 15 15:05:21 <jasta> i'm planning to find the store with the greatest availability in my area
Oct 15 15:05:22 <jasta> and go there
Oct 15 15:06:28 <yakischloba> jasta: how many 'official' ones are there? i really only know of the one downtown
Oct 15 15:06:49 <jasta> i'm not sure
Oct 15 15:07:00 <jasta> certainly don't want to have to drive downtown early in the morning tho :(
Oct 15 15:07:14 <yakischloba> ah yeah there is certainly one closer to you
Oct 15 15:07:15 <umdk1d3> mmm cant sleep nor code  :/
Oct 15 15:07:29 <unix_lappy> jasta: if you werent so actively developing for the phone would you wait or just buy it anyway?
Oct 15 15:07:33 <wastrel> there's a tmobile store near my apartment
Oct 15 15:07:42 <yakischloba> I hope they don't run out of em or something. I won't be able to get there until like 3:30pm
Oct 15 15:07:46 <umdk1d3> wastrel: infiltrate it the night before  ;)
Oct 15 15:07:48 <jasta> unix_lappy: if i wasnt actively developing, i wouldnt buy one at all
Oct 15 15:08:10 <wastrel> you think it's going to sell out?
Oct 15 15:08:26 <yakischloba> I have no idea, I haven't been paying much attention
Oct 15 15:08:26 <umdk1d3> hmm stores should probably already have them in stock in the backroom, or getting them any day now
Oct 15 15:08:29 <jasta> i do actually think it will sell out the first day, *by design*
Oct 15 15:08:33 <Disconnect> jasta: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Tmonews/~3/421654288/
Oct 15 15:08:36 <yakischloba> heh
Oct 15 15:08:44 <umdk1d3> yea to create more demand i suppose
Oct 15 15:09:13 <unix_lappy> jasta: assume your last smartphone broke :-P
Oct 15 15:10:12 <jasta> unix_lappy: then i would keep AT&T's superior network and buy an iphone.
Oct 15 15:10:14 <umdk1d3> rofl @ "line lead" to keep people entertained
Oct 15 15:12:10 <jasta> so it does look like t-mobile expects a line? :)
Oct 15 15:12:34 <jasta> "G1 'experts' will be on hand to demo the phone as well as pre-qualify Individuals for purchase." -- ?
Oct 15 15:12:37 <jasta> pre-qualify?
Oct 15 15:12:43 <jasta> is this a raffle or something? :)
Oct 15 15:12:51 <umdk1d3> "do you have fingers?"  check
Oct 15 15:12:54 <unix_lappy> jasta: financing.
Oct 15 15:13:05 <unix_lappy> they also run credit checks.
Oct 15 15:13:05 <jasta> oh i see
Oct 15 15:13:10 <wastrel> they want to screen out unattractive people
Oct 15 15:13:18 <umdk1d3> LOL @ wastrel
Oct 15 15:13:27 <wastrel> only hotties can use this phone
Oct 15 15:13:29 <unix_lappy> jasta: assume you refuse to pay att's premium for their network :-P
Oct 15 15:14:21 <jasta> why would i do that?
Oct 15 15:14:31 <jasta> bbl, shower
Oct 15 15:14:49 * unix_lappy never bothered buying a smart phone before, and from what I hear about other platforms, developing for the G1 has been pretty nice.
Oct 15 15:15:20 <jasta> yes that's certainly true, but as i said, if i _wasnt_ developing... :)
Oct 15 15:15:38 <jasta> i am 100% buying this phone as a dev.  i couldn't care less if it even made phone calls :)
Oct 15 15:15:54 <wastrel> i am going to get a phone maybe
Oct 15 15:16:04 <wastrel> thee's a blackberry commercial on the television
Oct 15 15:16:32 <unix_lappy> i'll likely just get it simply because I'm in the market for one....Though will be severely pissed when the next iteration comes out late november.
Oct 15 15:17:01 <umdk1d3> i dont think we would see a next iteration that soon
Oct 15 15:17:09 <umdk1d3> maybe q1 at earliest
Oct 15 15:17:26 <jasta> umdk1d3: pm
Oct 15 15:17:37 <umdk1d3> other manuf want to gauge interest before starting production mabe
Oct 15 15:21:47 <unix_lappy> motorola's interest seems to be piqued.  though they've not been so active in producing a quality touch device.
Oct 15 15:27:17 <wastrel> moto already runs linux eh
Oct 15 15:47:41 <dmoffett> How do you load signed apks onto the G1?  USB cable?  WiFi?
Oct 15 15:48:26 <umdk1d3> adb has a -d flag for sending to devices over usb
Oct 15 15:49:15 <Lenolium> dmoffett: I also noticed that when you tried to download a .apk through the browser it would complain that you needed to set a system setting for this to work.
Oct 15 15:50:28 <dmoffett> One of the google guys would know I guess.
Oct 15 16:40:15 <Lazyworm> hey, any one knows if eclipse can sign android application automaticly? i got only "Exporting the unsigned .apk" in android tool menu
Oct 15 16:46:32 <umdk1d3> you prolly could whip something up, but would you want your signing key password in a script somewhere?
Oct 15 16:49:06 * summatusmentis posts his signing key to the internet, so he doesn't forget it
Oct 15 16:56:34 <windowsrefund> hello
Oct 15 16:57:26 <windowsrefund> does anyone know what phones are due to be released with Android
Oct 15 16:57:28 <windowsrefund> ?
Oct 15 16:58:26 <wastrel> hi it is october 22nd in the us
Oct 15 17:03:37 <windowsrefund> that's the G1 date I believe
Oct 15 17:04:28 <wastrel> ah i read what as when
Oct 15 17:04:38 <wastrel> afaik only the g1 has been announced
Oct 15 17:04:40 <jasta> windowsrefund: there is only the g1 currently
Oct 15 17:04:58 <windowsrefund> yea
Oct 15 17:05:15 <windowsrefund> I'd love to get involved but would hate to have to rely on T-mobile
Oct 15 17:05:41 <windowsrefund> so just trying to get a feel for how long the wait will be before more options (hardware, carriers) are available
Oct 15 17:07:01 <tethridge> rumor is that Sprint will have an android phone out by the end of the year
Oct 15 17:07:07 <tethridge> it's just a rumor at this point
Oct 15 17:07:08 <windowsrefund> ah, I think Motorola may release something in Q1 2009
Oct 15 17:07:10 <windowsrefund> I see
Oct 15 17:07:17 <windowsrefund> i just found androidtalk
Oct 15 17:07:52 <Lenolium> windowsrefund: After 90 days, T-mobile will unlock them for any customer that asks, so you should see a selection of G1's on ebay around then. (Assuming you have a GSM mobile carrier)
Oct 15 17:09:14 <windowsrefund> I see
Oct 15 17:09:26 <dd94300> why 90 days wait time?
Oct 15 17:09:52 <muthu> that's the official unlocked version
Oct 15 17:10:07 <muthu> should see an hacked one within the first week
Oct 15 17:10:52 <dd94300> muthu, of course, but i was thinking T-Mobile going to ship unlocked G1
Oct 15 17:11:15 <muthu> not before 90 days
Oct 15 17:11:30 <dd94300> i did not know that
Oct 15 17:12:07 <muthu> after 90d, unlocked G1 between $400-600
Oct 15 17:12:16 <jasta> romainguy: you there?  i was thinking about what you said about a generalized ViewHolder implementation for ViewBinder...
Oct 15 17:12:44 <muthu> so launch party on 16th huh?
Oct 15 17:12:46 <dd94300> just like iPhone
Oct 15 17:12:54 <jasta> why wouldn't you use either an array or android.util.SparseArray?
Oct 15 17:14:02 <windowsrefund> is Android 100% free software?
Oct 15 17:14:21 <muthu> 100% free as in Apache 2.0
Oct 15 17:15:37 <jasta> currently, it is 0% free ;P
Oct 15 17:16:11 <ttuttle> Hey.
Oct 15 17:16:14 <muthu> if only the sources are released..
Oct 15 17:16:14 <jasta> hello
Oct 15 17:16:21 <ttuttle> So, protip: It's a *bad* idea to try to install every single app in the Market.
Oct 15 17:16:28 <jasta> why's that?
Oct 15 17:16:40 <ttuttle> There are a *lot* of apps.
Oct 15 17:16:45 <muthu> how many?
Oct 15 17:16:45 <ttuttle> (I mean, install them *all at once*.)
Oct 15 17:16:53 <ttuttle> muthu: /me probably shouldn't say.
Oct 15 17:17:02 <dd94300> i would not call it 100% free if they are planning to charge $400-600 for unlocked one.............
Oct 15 17:17:07 <jasta> you shouldn't say a lot of stuff you've already said ttuttle :)
Oct 15 17:17:15 <muthu> haha
Oct 15 17:17:15 <jasta> you're a security risk hehe
Oct 15 17:17:25 <muthu> ttuttle: is in an NDA
Oct 15 17:17:30 <jasta> dd94300: Android's cost != G1's cost
Oct 15 17:17:58 <muthu> ttuttle: user's can uninstall them with a click right?
Oct 15 17:18:13 <tethridge> is the market going to be browsable via any web browser when it launches?
Oct 15 17:18:19 <dd94300> jasta, yes agree
Oct 15 17:18:41 <tethridge> I hate the fact that you can't view iPhone apps without iTunes
Oct 15 17:18:43 <Lazyworm> how can i generate a key pair using jdk keytool that never expired? or i have to assign a stupid large validate number?
Oct 15 17:19:01 <umdk1d3> there are already lists of the market apps circulating on forums
Oct 15 17:19:16 <muthu> which forums?
Oct 15 17:19:22 <muthu> there's andappstore.com
Oct 15 17:19:23 <umdk1d3> Lazyworm: i would say set it pretty high, like >25 years
Oct 15 17:19:53 <umdk1d3> (when is the unix epoch rollover?)
Oct 15 17:20:17 <umdk1d3> 2038  ^.^
Oct 15 17:20:22 <Lazyworm> umdk1d3: :O thanks
Oct 15 17:20:28 <umdk1d3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem
Oct 15 17:21:12 <muthu> guess there'll be like 20 apps
Oct 15 17:21:20 <jasta> well uhh
Oct 15 17:21:37 <muthu> on 22nd that is
Oct 15 17:22:30 <jasta> umdk1d3: most unixes can simulate 64-bit integers, and would just make time_t that, like they have done with off_t.
Oct 15 17:22:39 <jasta> this problem is going to be very, very easy to fix :)
Oct 15 17:22:58 <umdk1d3> true, it was more just a curiocity for me tho
Oct 15 17:23:09 <jasta> just thought i'd add ;)
Oct 15 17:23:25 <languish> has anyone come across an android/g1 "stateful backup" to a single file, type app yet?
Oct 15 17:23:33 <umdk1d3> ttuttle: i agree with jasta, you are a security risk  :P
Oct 15 17:23:56 <languish> something like ghost for android
Oct 15 17:24:31 <umdk1d3> languish: it would be easier to roll up apps settings i think, instead of an entire binary package
Oct 15 17:24:37 <umdk1d3> we dont know what the bootloader will look like yet
Oct 15 17:25:06 <umdk1d3> but you could easily have a script adb install a pile of preset apps
Oct 15 17:25:22 <umdk1d3> then (maybe) copy over the existing settings, resetting unix groups where needed
Oct 15 17:25:29 <languish> hrm
Oct 15 17:25:54 <umdk1d3> that might not work from userspace tho, depends on the final user permissions on devices
Oct 15 17:26:45 <languish> the reason I ask, is that as an end user, I'd like to be able to "image" the phone before and after testing new apps.  Or reset the g1 so others can look at it without seeing my personal info, then reimage my stuff back on (not just sync contacts and such with google)
Oct 15 17:27:10 <umdk1d3> ohic, kinda like multi-user phone?
Oct 15 17:27:14 <languish> yes
Oct 15 17:27:17 <Disconnect> muthu: ttuttle isn't just in an nda, he's mentioned by name :)
Oct 15 17:27:24 <languish> because I'm going to be showing the g1 around to many people
Oct 15 17:27:40 <languish> and just don't want them going through all my personal info
Oct 15 17:28:01 <umdk1d3> hmm
Oct 15 17:28:24 <umdk1d3> most of the "personal info" from the g-apps side of things can be synced down from the cloud upon a device reset
Oct 15 17:28:36 <umdk1d3> and you could automate installing of wanted apps
Oct 15 17:28:44 <umdk1d3> but probably not the unfolding of apps data
Oct 15 17:28:48 <Gennaro> Does anyone know when Motorola will release an Android phone
Oct 15 17:28:48 <languish> I'm including personal notations and pics and such
Oct 15 17:28:55 <umdk1d3> Gennaro: tomorrow  ;)
Oct 15 17:28:57 <umdk1d3> LOL
Oct 15 17:28:59 <muthu> Disconnect: hope goog spares ttuttle :)
Oct 15 17:29:06 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 15 17:29:15 <Gennaro> Always tomorrow...
Oct 15 17:29:30 <umdk1d3> j/k nobody around here prolly knows
Oct 15 17:29:48 <languish> so anyone here going to the launch party in nyc tomorrow?
Oct 15 17:29:56 <Gennaro> I saw the /. article regarding Motorola hiring 350 Android developers.
Oct 15 17:30:11 <muthu> yeah, moto developing SN powered G1
Oct 15 17:30:17 <muthu> called Ando
Oct 15 17:30:20 <languish> SN?
Oct 15 17:30:25 <Gennaro> I would love to go. I am in Washington D.C. and have to work though.
Oct 15 17:30:36 <languish> Gennaro, did you get an invite?
Oct 15 17:30:38 <muthu> SN = Social Networking
Oct 15 17:30:44 <languish> muthu, ahh thanks
Oct 15 17:30:52 <umdk1d3> ando?  o.o  didnt see that anywhere
Oct 15 17:30:57 <Gennaro> Naaah. So another words I am out right?
Oct 15 17:30:57 <muthu> hehe
Oct 15 17:31:06 <umdk1d3> yea it was invite only event  :/
Oct 15 17:31:10 <languish> Gennaro, lol yeah :(
Oct 15 17:31:15 <muthu> Ando is something i came up with ;)
Oct 15 17:31:36 <languish> I'm hoping to find someone that'll be willing to let me go as their guest
Oct 15 17:31:44 <languish> sorry, not female or gay :/
Oct 15 17:31:57 <umdk1d3> LOL
Oct 15 17:32:02 <umdk1d3> you could pretend  :P
Oct 15 17:32:07 <muthu> haha
Oct 15 17:32:18 <languish> I wouldn't be very good at it... wife 'n all
Oct 15 17:32:21 <Gennaro> You guys wanna good laugh. I am a *nix admin and like to learn new things. So one of the supervisors at work bought me a Macbook Pro and a Developers Kit License to develop for the iPhone/iPod
Oct 15 17:32:31 <Gennaro> Objective C!!! No Thanks
Oct 15 17:32:37 <umdk1d3> lol :P
Oct 15 17:32:45 <languish> Hey, I don't care if the person with the invitation is gay, no prejudice here. I just couldn't pull it off.
Oct 15 17:33:06 <umdk1d3> Gennaro: were they gonna pay you to learn tho?
Oct 15 17:33:40 <Gennaro> Yeah send me to training too. Been to intro programming courses and C
Oct 15 17:33:49 <languish> heh
Oct 15 17:33:51 <Gennaro> Next stop was Objective C
Oct 15 17:34:21 <Gennaro> Have to admit kinda sidetracked when I took an intro programming course that had Java
Oct 15 17:34:35 <tethridge> muthu, why a moto G1?  I'm confused.  Do you mean the hardware design would be the same?
Oct 15 17:34:43 <Gennaro> Always been a fan (8+ years) of Linux and Open Source
Oct 15 17:34:55 <haxi> great.
Oct 15 17:35:14 <muthu> tethridge: its just a rumor.. moto doing their own stuff, and details are not known now
Oct 15 17:35:30 <tethridge> Gennaro, tell your supervisor to send your MBP back and get the latest version if it hasn't been 30 days yet.
Oct 15 17:35:37 <Dougie187> from what i heard moto just started working with android after the "announcement"
Oct 15 17:35:55 <muthu> all we know is, they are building this social network powered android phone
Oct 15 17:35:59 <tethridge> so there is an announcement party coming from moto tomorrow?
Oct 15 17:36:02 <Gennaro> ten years ago I worked for Motorola in a production facility in South Florida manufacturing iDen phones before I got into IT
Oct 15 17:36:15 <Gennaro> Ever since then had a thing for telecomm
Oct 15 17:36:29 <Dougie187> muthu: you "know" or is that the rumor?
Oct 15 17:36:30 <Gennaro> Too bad I work for a county governent
Oct 15 17:36:53 <Gennaro> Yeah been almost 60 days now.
Oct 15 17:36:58 <Gennaro> Neat laptop
Oct 15 17:37:10 <Gennaro> Like the *nix underpinnings
Oct 15 17:37:15 <muthu> Dougie187: that's something published in their job requirements
Oct 15 17:37:45 <Gennaro> what is? muthu
Oct 15 17:37:59 <Dougie187> muthu: their job requirements say "We are creating a social networking android phone" ?
Oct 15 17:37:59 <Gennaro> Oh social networking
Oct 15 17:38:27 <Gennaro> Have to admit I am 40 years old and am suspicious maybe to a negative degree of social networking sites.
Oct 15 17:38:32 <Dougie187> heh
Oct 15 17:38:33 <muthu> http://gizmodo.com/5063349/motorola-working-on-android
Oct 15 17:38:37 <Dougie187> who doesn't Gennaro
Oct 15 17:38:42 <Dougie187> Social networking is garbage.
Oct 15 17:39:13 <dmoffett> Yeah I can't imagine people getting online and chatting.  :-)
Oct 15 17:39:13 <muthu> Interaction Designer "responsible for leading and actively participating
Oct 15 17:39:13 <muthu>  in the concept, design, documentation and development of user interfaces
Oct 15 17:39:13 <muthu>  for our mobile products including our new Android Social Networking
Oct 15 17:39:13 <muthu>  SmartPhone."
Oct 15 17:39:33 <muthu> lol
Oct 15 17:39:36 <Gennaro> The way I see it is and my spam e-mail usually confirms it.. The more people know you exist the more they want to bombard you with scams
Oct 15 17:39:54 <muthu> irc is socialnetworking at its best
Oct 15 17:39:59 <Gennaro> That was a great line dmoffett
Oct 15 17:40:28 <Gennaro> Don't know if I would even classify chat the same as social networking in the web 2.0 world
Oct 15 17:40:38 <Dougie187> Gennaro: i'm 100% with you.
Oct 15 17:40:54 <Dougie187> imo, irc is not (in general) social networking.
Oct 15 17:42:05 <Dougie187> muthu: that job isn't even posted. their sources link to a nonexistent site.
Oct 15 17:42:26 <Gennaro> Yeah all I know is there are some people out there with weird names like mine. Yet I won't know age gender or photo and home address as well as interests unless the decide to share. Even then who knows how much of that is true. It is not validated by a community of people who may actually have first hand knowledge of the person chatting
Oct 15 17:43:35 * Disconnect does social networking for a living (well, we're switching focus to social publishing from sitebuilding)
Oct 15 17:44:17 <Gennaro> Oh and the stuff that makes me look twice is when you can see where I am Location Based Services. Anyone ever called in sick to go to the DMV or get something done they had put off to the last minute?
Oct 15 17:44:55 * Gennaro raises my hand
Oct 15 17:45:50 <Disconnect> there's a reason i don't post that sort of stuff to linkedin
Oct 15 17:45:59 <Gennaro> I second that
Oct 15 17:46:27 <Gennaro> So anyone here pre order the T-Mobile HTC Android phone>
Oct 15 17:46:37 <Disconnect> (or twitter/etc since a couple of coworkers have that info) .. mostly i do the microblogging cuz i got tired of trying to remember who i should spam with updates about my knee (summary: 4 surgeries since jan, bunch of infections, etc. now pt until feb)
Oct 15 17:46:42 <Disconnect> but it means i have to think twice about what i post there
Oct 15 17:46:47 <Dougie187> I think Social networking in a basic form is a decent idea and can be useful when used for strictly social networking, but social networking as it is today has gone way beyond useful into the realm of totally useless. Its more about entertainment then Social networking.
Oct 15 17:47:30 <Gennaro> ***ouch*** <--------regarding the knee!
Oct 15 17:47:48 <dmoffett> Gennaro do you only listen to classic rock as well?  :-) Really, just like anything that is quite new will take a while to flush out and may never make sense to those of us over 40.
Oct 15 17:47:54 <Gennaro> I would take that maybe even a step farther. True Story...
Oct 15 17:47:54 <Disconnect> ..social networking -is- entertainment. thats why it took off. not even talking about facebook games and all that crud (which we did for a while, then spun them off into their own company)
Oct 15 17:48:02 <Gennaro> I have a 20 year old son
Oct 15 17:48:43 <MrSnowflake> lo
Oct 15 17:49:05 <Gennaro> He is dating this girl a year and meets her "best friend". A guy. So he gets upset and goes to this guys myspace page and finds he has many photos of his "best friend" on his page and a statement that he finds her attractive
Oct 15 17:49:13 <Dougie187> Disconnect: im just saying, social networking shouldn't be entertainment. I mean just look at what the words mean... It should be to create a social network of contacts. not to be entertained by creepily stalking people on the internet.
Oct 15 17:49:47 <Gennaro> So my son (proof that he is still immature) gives her an ultimatum... Stop hanging with this guy or it's over
Oct 15 17:49:56 <Disconnect> Dougie187: you are confusing networking ("here's a business card and contact info") with social networking - the social is important.
Oct 15 17:50:02 <Gennaro> next thing you know he is calling me upset because she sent him packing
Oct 15 17:50:03 <Gennaro> lol
Oct 15 17:50:14 <Disconnect> Gennaro: ok, so true story, your son is an idiot. :)
Oct 15 17:50:18 <Dougie187> Disconnect: i understand the Social aspect. but Social does not imply entertainment.
Oct 15 17:50:18 <Disconnect> but seriously
Oct 15 17:50:21 <muthu> the real world is online :)
Oct 15 17:50:49 <Gennaro> He said, "But Dad how would I look if I didn't do something?" I said, "How do you look now? Like an Idiot!!!"
Oct 15 17:50:49 <Disconnect> the same thing could have happened if he'd bumped into the guy in the halls @ HS 20 years ago. or his friend heard from a friend, etc..
Oct 15 17:51:34 <Gennaro> Really stupid thing is they had dated a year and moved into together and she had been friends with the other guy for 6 years.
Oct 15 17:52:22 <Gennaro> I tell my kid... So what now that she met you all of a sudden after 6 years he will start looking like a deal. If that is the case you got bigger issues to deal with my friend
Oct 15 17:52:31 <Gennaro> I agree
Oct 15 17:53:09 <Gennaro> in this case he pulled a detective stunt and went online to check this guy out. I said see... That is why you don't post crap on myspace
Oct 15 17:53:57 <Disconnect> hell, no social networking at all - had to explain recently to a 25 year old (female) friend that she knows her (28yo) bf is jealous, and specifically of this one other (male) friend, so having a romantic evening with movies and so forth until 4am wasn't the best idea, even though nobody involved thinks anything happened...
Oct 15 17:54:18 <Disconnect> stupidity doesn't need myspace
Oct 15 17:54:45 <Gennaro> I am not totally against social networking. I think there are safe ways to use it. Devices like the android hopefully will help us think more carefully in that regard
Oct 15 17:54:59 <Disconnect> (the kicker for that was that the bf had been trying to reach her cuz of cancelled work, to do dinner etc.. but no coverage @ her friend's place. doh.)
Oct 15 17:55:14 <Disconnect> nokia has been pushing location-based social networking for a year or so now on their newer handsets
Oct 15 17:55:23 <Gennaro> lol@Disconnect
Oct 15 17:55:36 <Gennaro> technology can be a real gift sometimes.
Oct 15 17:56:04 <Disconnect> but everyone there had the option to be all freakazoid, instead they were just angry all around (and so she was asking for perspective, we've known him for almost 15 years..)
Oct 15 17:58:01 <Gennaro> Isn't it great how when people are caught screwing up they, "ask for perspective?" which might as well be reworded to read validation? It's almost like a last ditch effort to justify a wrong that was commited
Oct 15 17:58:44 <Gennaro> I myself will get a android hopefully in person at a store. When is it November 22
Oct 15 17:59:02 <Gennaro> Anyone here already own a phone by HTC
Oct 15 17:59:11 <Gennaro> I don't know much about them
Oct 15 17:59:19 <Disconnect> she was mostly looking for understanding as to why he was mad. she just went to a friend's for a movie. but one of the things we pointed out was compromise - she knew that would upset him, which means she needed to think about that as a compromise. (and we got into some of the things that he needed to deal with as well, in his behavior/actions)
Oct 15 17:59:39 <Gennaro> Agreed Disconnect
Oct 15 17:59:41 <Disconnect> Gennaro: friend of mine has been a long-time htc fan, loved them. but he's got an iphone now, and loves that, so...
Oct 15 17:59:54 <Gennaro> I have an iPod touch
Oct 15 17:59:58 <Gennaro> it's alright
Oct 15 18:00:29 <Gennaro> honestly don't use it much since I am in front of several PC's all day I can listen to whatever I want.
Oct 15 18:00:43 <Gennaro> I find that I am wayyy out of touch with todays music
Oct 15 18:00:56 <Gennaro> So I try when possible to listen to radio streams
Oct 15 18:01:07 <muthu> what do you listen?
Oct 15 18:02:21 <Gennaro> I like a bunch of stuff. I grew up in Miami, FL after being born in upstate NY and it is interesting how those two facts influenced my taste in music. Lately I have gone back to late 70's and early 80's
Oct 15 18:02:38 <Gennaro> Supertramp, Def Leppard, Guns N' Roses
Oct 15 18:03:19 <Gennaro> I also like a style of Music that became popular in the mid 80's in Florida. Freestyle kind of latin Pop Club music
Oct 15 18:03:39 <Gennaro> LIke some trance
Oct 15 18:03:46 <Gennaro> Club Mixes
Oct 15 18:03:55 <Gennaro> Just depends on what I am working on.
Oct 15 18:04:03 <muthu> cool
Oct 15 18:04:08 <Gennaro> Disconnect... Do you write code?
Oct 15 18:04:35 <Disconnect> i do (again) - stopped coding almost 10 years ago for money, ran off to be an admin. relearning java and such to do some android apps.
Oct 15 18:04:51 <Gennaro> That is where I am drawn as well.
Oct 15 18:04:56 <Disconnect> and random side note, xm radio 'the system' and rantradio.com
Oct 15 18:04:57 <muthu> great stories
Oct 15 18:05:08 <muthu> android has really pulling all sorta developers
Oct 15 18:05:15 <Disconnect> stopped coding for money that is, still did utils and such for work and some little things for home
Oct 15 18:05:19 <Disconnect> and tivo hacking
Oct 15 18:05:28 <Gennaro> Gets frustrating when you realize that not only do you have to learn to code but also learn an IDE and a versioning system
Oct 15 18:05:43 * Disconnect has a moderately suspicious distrust of OOP :P
Oct 15 18:05:45 <Dougie187> Gennaro: who said you had to learn all that?
Oct 15 18:06:15 * Disconnect is learning eclipse along with it, but its not necessary. and svn (or -anything-) is your friend, honest...
Oct 15 18:06:26 <Disconnect> but its not required either. (I should start a repo for my apps)
Oct 15 18:06:41 <Gennaro> I was on the android site early on and I see the guy using Eclipse and thought if you want to get your feet wet with helping on a project for android it seems you need to be proficient with Eclipse.
Oct 15 18:07:18 <romainguy_> well you don't have to use Eclipse
Oct 15 18:07:55 <muthu> but if you have not used any other IDE, then better to start with Eclipse for Android
Oct 15 18:08:03 * Disconnect isn't proficient with it, only (so far) using the top 5 or 10 commands.. "run history" to run it in the emu (same for debugging), ctrl-space completion (lifesaver) and so forth
Oct 15 18:08:19 <romainguy_> Disconnect: you should learn Ctrl-1 too :)
Oct 15 18:08:24 <Gennaro> I agree that I could not imagine having a basic understanding of subversion of what developing an app within a community would be like without version contril
Oct 15 18:08:26 <Gennaro> control
Oct 15 18:08:29 <Disconnect> oh yah, autofix is a Good Thing
Oct 15 18:09:02 <Dougie187> muthu: i think the point was you don't need any ide to program.
Oct 15 18:09:12 <Dougie187> Gennaro: if you want, you can wrote your android app in notepad.
Oct 15 18:09:29 <Dougie187> it might be more difficult then eclipse... but if you want to you can.
Oct 15 18:10:06 <muthu> Dougie187: that's the most useless thing anyone can do.. to write apps in notepad
Oct 15 18:10:16 <romainguy_> muthu: how so?
Oct 15 18:10:37 <muthu> why would a beginner want to use notepad? when you have a free IDE called Eclipse with an Android plugin?
Oct 15 18:10:58 <Dougie187> muthu: maybe they don't want to spend time learning how to use an IDE.
Oct 15 18:11:00 <romainguy_> because using Notepad makes you learn the language and the platform in a much better way
Oct 15 18:11:13 <Dougie187> thanks romainguy_
Oct 15 18:11:15 <romainguy_> I've seen way too  many IDE users who have no idea of what a classpath is for instance
Oct 15 18:11:33 <Gennaro> My daily system is a Dell Latitude C640 P4 1.7Ghz 1GB RAM 100GB HD 32MB ATI 7500 xubuntu 8.04
Oct 15 18:11:46 <Disconnect> unrelated note, anyone want to buy a used nokia e90? :) moderately unhappy (i busted the headset speaker, like the one you use for normal phone stuff - ringer/speakerphone works, bt headsets or wired headset both work...)
Oct 15 18:12:00 <Dougie187> hell yeah. there is this java class on campus here. and all of the students are complete morons, and all they have to do to write code is use eclipse. but they can't do anything like find a classpath or anything.
Oct 15 18:12:02 <Cedric2> romainguy: soon, knowing what a classpath is for will be just as useful as knowing what a BSS is
Oct 15 18:12:45 <romainguy> Cedric2: yes, but now, you still need to know what it is :)
Oct 15 18:12:55 <romainguy> I'm all of the use of IDE
Oct 15 18:13:04 * Disconnect wants to get a netbook to do coding on metro (17" mbp is a little much to haul out) but gotta sell stuff first
Oct 15 18:13:13 <Gennaro> I watched in wonder at the videos on the android site and thought to myself. That certainly looks doable.
Oct 15 18:13:16 <romainguy> I find it sad to see so many programmers in companies still rely on things like vi and emacs :)
Oct 15 18:13:29 <romainguy> but to learn a language, I don't think IDEs are the best way to go :)
Oct 15 18:13:39 <Dougie187> romainguy its all preference though.
Oct 15 18:13:50 <ismarc> I'm a big vi and emacs guy
Oct 15 18:13:55 <Dougie187> some people just don't like IDEs and prefer something like vi or emacs.
Oct 15 18:13:58 <Dougie187> ismarc: me too.
Oct 15 18:14:00 <Gennaro> I use vi explicitly as a Linux/Unix admin
Oct 15 18:14:02 <romainguy__> that's my point
Oct 15 18:14:12 <ismarc> with emacs, I have power over the environment, power over the build process
Oct 15 18:14:20 <Dougie187> people who use vi or emacs might say they think its crazy people actually use IDEs
Oct 15 18:14:20 <romainguy__> every time I open a source code file I can tell whether the file was written using an IDE or not
Oct 15 18:14:31 <Cedric2> Developers coding Java in emacs or vi should certainly be ashamed of themselves
Oct 15 18:14:33 <Gennaro> I have yet to find the need to dabble in emacs although I have had some heated debates of which is more useful.
Oct 15 18:14:47 <Gennaro> I have used vi fo 10 years and it has served me well
Oct 15 18:14:50 <romainguy__> for instance, non-IDE written files are often full of unused variables, methods and bugs that only IDEs find
Oct 15 18:14:57 <romainguy__> I'm not saying vi and emacs are bad tools, far from it
Oct 15 18:15:05 * Cedric2 used an assembler for 10 years and it served him well too
Oct 15 18:15:06 <romainguy__> I just don't find them adapted to today's large scale projects
Oct 15 18:15:15 * Disconnect learned to code in an IDE (turbo c.. yes, that long ago) and then did the most productive work with vi/vim, and now ide's are pretty much essential
Oct 15 18:15:20 <ismarc> Cedric2: why? Eclipse is a waste of 300mb and processing power just to have a pretty wrapper around what I've already got setup with emacs
Oct 15 18:15:40 <Cedric2> ismarc: no matter how fast you are with emacs, you will be much more productive with an IDE
Oct 15 18:15:42 <romainguy__> the waste is to have a 3 Ghz CPU and not use it :)
Oct 15 18:15:54 <Disconnect> i can get as much thin coverage of an API in a week of actually writing productive code with google and eclipse as i got in a week (or more) training class 10 years ago.
Oct 15 18:16:04 <fadden_> Did I just hear an emacs user complain about the size of something?
Oct 15 18:16:09 <Disconnect> ismarc: ..cuz emacs isn't a waste of 300 megs or anything :)
Oct 15 18:16:51 <ismarc> I actually normally use a stripped down laptop with barely anything, I think it's got a 500mhz processor
Oct 15 18:17:07 <ismarc> and run everything remote off of servers set up at home
Oct 15 18:17:38 <jasta> so, romainguy__, i was thinking more about our conversation yesterday about the ViewHolder pattern with SimpleCursorAdapter...
Oct 15 18:17:39 <Gennaro> As a bit of a parallel I remember reading an article where the author explained how he at the NYTimes always got great feedback for the uniform look of the site. He said that at the NYTimes they always coded the site by hand didn't use dreamweaver or some such app to develop/maintain their site
Oct 15 18:17:40 <ismarc> minimal emacs build, no desktop environment, etc.  IDE = impossible to use
Oct 15 18:17:49 <romainguy__> jasta: yeah I read that
Oct 15 18:17:56 <jasta> and it occurred to me there owuld be no mapping or autoboxing at all
Oct 15 18:18:00 <jasta> no, i mean i thought about it *again* :)
Oct 15 18:18:09 <ttuttle> Hey, I'm bored.
Oct 15 18:18:13 <jasta> you'd just need a View[] as your tag
Oct 15 18:18:16 <ttuttle> Someone suggest an Android app for me to write.
Oct 15 18:18:20 <Cedric2> ismarc: using lightweight tools on undergeared computers makes sense, but I bet you use emacs on fast machines too
Oct 15 18:18:25 <Cedric2> and that's where I think you're losing a lot
Oct 15 18:18:40 <Dougie187> ttuttle: write a fax receiver
Oct 15 18:18:40 <jasta> so you'd just run for (int i = 0; i < mTo.length; i++) { View v = holder[i]; ...
Oct 15 18:18:44 <Cedric2> not mentioning checking out poor code with unused variables, imports and various things written manually
Oct 15 18:18:45 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Why?!
Oct 15 18:18:54 <Dougie187> ttuttle: to receive faxes
Oct 15 18:19:03 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Is that possible with the API?
Oct 15 18:19:07 <Dougie187> ionno
Oct 15 18:19:11 <Cedric2> When I edit a Java file, I can tell right away if the previous author was using an IDE or emacs
Oct 15 18:19:11 <Dougie187> but write something to make it possible.
Oct 15 18:19:16 <Dougie187> i don't think it is possible with the api though
Oct 15 18:19:17 <Disconnect> ttuttle: terminal/shell app
Oct 15 18:19:23 <jasta> romainguy__: it seems like it'd be a really simple change?  am i missing something?
Oct 15 18:19:23 <Cedric2> because the code usually sucks if it comes from emacs/vi :)
Oct 15 18:19:28 <Dougie187> i don't think the api supports JTAPI
Oct 15 18:19:29 <ttuttle> Dougie187: I don't believe it's possible to monitor the incoming call audio.
Oct 15 18:19:38 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Yeah, I've been thinking about that.
Oct 15 18:19:39 <ismarc> Cedric2: I blame that on folks who don't know how to setup emacs for what they're working on
Oct 15 18:19:58 <Cedric2> No ismarc, there is no way you can configure emacs to keep up with what an IDE can do
Oct 15 18:20:01 <Cedric2> No way.
Oct 15 18:20:02 <Dougie187> ttuttle: it wouldn't monitor the call audio... it would answer a call from a specific phone number a different way.
Oct 15 18:20:21 <ttuttle> Dougie187: What do you mean "a different way"?
Oct 15 18:20:27 <Dougie187> like a fax machine.
Oct 15 18:20:42 <romainguy__> Cedric2: especially on a project the size of Android for instance :)
Oct 15 18:20:58 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Er, being a fax machine requires that you have the audio from the phone line.  That's not possible in the current API.
Oct 15 18:21:04 <muthu> don't think emacs/vi can match up to a modern IDE these days
Oct 15 18:21:10 <ttuttle> muthu: I disagree.
Oct 15 18:21:18 <Dougie187> well. you could figure out how to do it then. Mr. NDA
Oct 15 18:21:29 <JoeBrain__> what's the benefits of emacs/vi again?
Oct 15 18:21:30 <ttuttle> Dougie187: So, I don't work for Google anymore.
Oct 15 18:21:31 <Dougie187> muthu: I disagree as well.
Oct 15 18:21:34 <ttuttle> JoeBrain__: Faster.
Oct 15 18:21:39 <Dougie187> ttuttle: but you have friends there.
Oct 15 18:21:43 <Dougie187> ttuttle: get them to do it.
Oct 15 18:21:43 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Sure.
Oct 15 18:21:47 <ttuttle> Dougie187: I could suggest it.
Oct 15 18:21:47 <JoeBrain> What's faster about it? you mean UI updates?
Oct 15 18:22:00 <ismarc> Cedric2: You can, to an extent.  There's a lot of convenience factors in IDEs, but that convenience also slows the user down.
Oct 15 18:22:09 <fadden> Mouse-free line-oriented editing works very well for C and asm.
Oct 15 18:22:20 <Cedric2> Refactoring Java on emacs is nonexistent, pretty much
Oct 15 18:22:22 <fadden> If I did lots of Java, I'd use an IDE.
Oct 15 18:22:26 <JoeBrain> If it's a factor of hotkeys, can't you just setup settings in favorite text editor?
Oct 15 18:22:31 <Cedric2> so I see a lot more code rot from Java emacs programmers than IDE users
Oct 15 18:22:43 <jasta> *cough* eclim *cough*
Oct 15 18:23:00 <ttuttle> JoeBrain: vi loads in about 1 second, tops.  eclipse takes about 15-20.
Oct 15 18:23:13 <Cedric2> ttuttle: who cares, I fire Eclipse maybe once a week
Oct 15 18:23:17 <fadden> I used Visual Studio for C++/C# GUI stuff on Windows.  Worked okay for C++, was fairly brilliant for C#.
Oct 15 18:23:52 <Gennaro> I would think and excuse me if this is an ignorant comment... I would think that if you learned to code straight away in an IDE you would have trouble maintaining or debugging code without access to the same
Oct 15 18:23:55 <JoeBrain> ok so overhead load time; which matters, but I think people may use vi for stuff that they dont use eclipse for
Oct 15 18:24:37 <Cedric2> Gennaro: Java is Java, you will understand it no matter what you use. emacs/vi will make it harder for you to navigate through the code base, though
Oct 15 18:25:19 <JoeBrain> if you're editing like your etc/host file you'll probably not use eclipse; so the 15-20sec time would kill you, but you might use vi
Oct 15 18:25:22 <Cedric2> I use emacs and vi every day, by the way, I love them for editing a lot of files. But not Java.
Oct 15 18:25:24 <Gennaro> Yeah but doesn't ease of navigation get addressed by proper comment and indentation?
Oct 15 18:25:39 <muthu> editors can't be compared with IDE
Oct 15 18:25:55 <JoeBrain> I like IDEs for project organization
Oct 15 18:25:57 <Dougie187> muthu: how so? an IDE is just a glorified editor.
Oct 15 18:26:09 <muthu> Dougie187: its much more than editing
Oct 15 18:26:15 <jasta> Cedric2: again, *ahem*, eclim.
Oct 15 18:26:19 <JoeBrain> I also like IDEs for autocomplete
Oct 15 18:26:25 <fadden> IDEs are a big win when you have to dig through a massive pile of other people's code.
Oct 15 18:26:27 <Gennaro> I go nuts when I look at code and I am by no means a professional that has next to no comments and the guy who wrote it didn't take the time to line things up in a way that would save me from having to do it so I could better read it
Oct 15 18:26:33 <Cedric2> Dougie18: not even close
Oct 15 18:27:37 <jasta> romainguy__: http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-client/src/org/devtcg/five/widget/EfficientCursorAdapter.java
Oct 15 18:27:41 <jasta> this seems to work exactly as expected
Oct 15 18:27:52 <jasta> but uses the ViewHolder pattern
Oct 15 18:28:29 <Gennaro> I guess the point I want to make is shouldn't you learn to code in a simple editor before moving on to create code/debug/maintain code in an IDE?
Oct 15 18:28:46 <Cedric2> Gennaro: I don't think so
Oct 15 18:28:57 <muthu> Gennaro: that's old style and outdated
Oct 15 18:28:58 <Disconnect> Gennaro: use 'indent' on it
Oct 15 18:29:19 <muthu> move on to modern programming practices
Oct 15 18:29:22 <Cedric2> IDE's have a bad reputation because of the early Microsoft VIsual Studios, that were masking a lot of the complexities
Oct 15 18:29:25 <Cedric2> we're way past that now
Oct 15 18:29:34 <Cedric2> IDE's don't hide the complexity, they make it more palatable
Oct 15 18:29:50 <muthu> Cedric2: you used idea, right?
Oct 15 18:30:01 <Cedric2> No, Eclipse, but same thing, they're both excellent
Oct 15 18:30:08 <muthu> yup
Oct 15 18:30:08 <Gennaro> Well... I guess I do show my age. It's a new day. I fully intend to learn Eclipse and use it to create/contribute to a android project.
Oct 15 18:30:17 <Cedric2> Great to hear, Gennaro
Oct 15 18:30:23 <Cedric2> as for age, I'm probably older than you :)
Oct 15 18:30:27 <muthu> Gennaro: start with eclipse
Oct 15 18:30:33 <muthu> its a lot better, easier and productive
Oct 15 18:30:47 <Cedric2> I won't enter the eclipse/idea debate, I would just recommend starting with Eclipse too
Oct 15 18:30:52 <Cedric2> but if you don't like it, try IDEA
Oct 15 18:30:57 <muthu> haha
Oct 15 18:31:15 <muthu> IDEA is commercial though
Oct 15 18:31:30 <Cedric2> Yes, that's why I suggest starting with Eclipse (market share is another reason)
Oct 15 18:31:39 <Gennaro> Yeah I will. Like I said earlier I pay my bills as a sysadmin but I am a hobbyist programmer C and javascript looking to use android to move me along to java
Oct 15 18:32:23 <Gennaro> Eclipse seems a natural choice given that it is free and is already widely used in the community
Oct 15 18:33:30 <Gennaro> Being that I work for a county government I do at least for the time being given the economy have access to a large number of resources such as enterprise licenses for software and new hardware
Oct 15 18:34:58 <Gennaro> Is HTC the same company that makes the "wing" that T-mobile sells?
Oct 15 18:35:44 <zer0her0> Gennaro: i believe so
Oct 15 18:36:02 <Gennaro> That phone looked well built.
Oct 15 18:36:15 <Gennaro> Good to knmow zer0her0
Oct 15 18:36:18 <Gennaro> thx
Oct 15 18:36:27 <zer0her0> yea HTC is pretty good, i've had a couple phones by them
Oct 15 18:36:29 <zer0her0> all very rugged
Oct 15 18:36:54 <Gennaro> I have always liked the Motorola iDen phones. AKA Nextel phones
Oct 15 18:37:20 <Gennaro> Would love to see Motorola do something like release android on that platform.
Oct 15 18:37:43 <zer0her0> i'm actually more interested in non-phone handhelds and devices.
Oct 15 18:37:53 <Gennaro> Since the Nextel Sprint merger Sprint seems to be doing whatever they can to marginalize the iDen network
Oct 15 18:38:13 <zer0her0> i know nothing about sprint/nextel networks and handhelds
Oct 15 18:38:20 <zer0her0> and very little bout verizon.
Oct 15 18:38:28 <muthu> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/10/15/htc-g1-already-shipping-many-to-be-delivered-by-friday/
Oct 15 18:39:03 <Gennaro> I love the Palm OS devices. But want to see something that integrates more modern features into the deive like Bluetooth 2.o
Oct 15 18:39:33 <JoeBrain> I tried the first gen Centro & was unimpressed, but I loved my Treo 700 or whatever
Oct 15 18:39:40 <Gennaro> It made me wonder what Palm was thinking with the Treo smartphone when they didn't include GPS or Bluetooth 2.0
Oct 15 18:40:35 <JoeBrain> muthu, is that true?
Oct 15 18:40:44 <muthu> yup
Oct 15 18:40:47 <Gennaro> I had a Treo 650 and loved it too. Java is the right way to go and Palm seems dead. Makes it hard to want to invest my time in learning to code for a Palm device
Oct 15 18:40:51 <JoeBrain> nifty :)
Oct 15 18:40:54 <muthu> check your ups tracking
Oct 15 18:41:03 <Gennaro> OMG!
Oct 15 18:41:14 <Gennaro> Now I regret not pre ordering
Oct 15 18:41:25 <JoeBrain> Dittos
Oct 15 18:41:34 <Cedric2> Bah, this web site is always wrong with rumors
Oct 15 18:41:34 <Gennaro> I figured the pre orders would go out first just not this early
Oct 15 18:41:46 <muthu> http://phandroid.com/2008/10/15/pre-ordered-g1s-could-arrive-as-early-as-17th/
Oct 15 18:41:59 <Gennaro> Over a month early!!!
Oct 15 18:42:21 <Gennaro> Well earlier than a guy like me standing inline at a store.
Oct 15 18:43:26 <Gennaro> I feel like a kid at Christmas... I purposely went with T-Mobile and left AT&T and did not get an iPhone when it was clarified that we would see an android device in the 4th Qtr of this year.
Oct 15 18:43:43 <umdk1d3> wow its chatty today
Oct 15 18:43:56 <JoeBrain> hehe it's good :)
Oct 15 18:44:21 <Gennaro> Apple has neat hardware but they piss me off with the way the lock everything up and dictate and bully.
Oct 15 18:44:35 <unix_lappy> Gennaro: but you will be enranged when / if there is a better Android Device with Spring early Q1
Oct 15 18:44:38 <JoeBrain> Yeah pisses me off too, but sometimes I can see the advantages
Oct 15 18:45:05 <unix_lappy> /s/with/coming.
Oct 15 18:45:21 <ttuttle> Gennaro: Yay.
Oct 15 18:45:27 <ttuttle> Gennaro: /me likes people who like Android ;-)
Oct 15 18:45:49 <Gennaro> umdkld3: Sorry... I have been on a caffeine binge today. Last night was maintenance night and we did firmware upgrades on our SAN devices. I didn't get to sleep until 2 a.m. and was back at 6 a.m.
Oct 15 18:46:33 <Gennaro> unix_lappy: you bet I will especially if it is discounted at 50% what I payed for the first model.
Oct 15 18:46:51 <JoeBrain> it'll be worth the excitement
Oct 15 18:47:06 <Gennaro> Yep...
Oct 15 18:47:24 <JoeBrain> you're paying for not being unhappy when people have something that you really want :)
Oct 15 18:47:24 <unix_lappy> Gennaro: well more likely scenario is that your current device will be discounted 50% or retail.
Oct 15 18:47:36 <unix_lappy> of*
Oct 15 18:48:20 <Gennaro> I see the Apple fanboy comparisons to the already existing iPhone G3 and the yet to be released Android and the snubbing of the android and I could care less. I prefer to hold the power. To me technology isn't a beauty contest.
Oct 15 18:49:46 <Gennaro> Although I will be interested to see just how much access to network services T-Mobile will allow android apps to have and at what cost to the customer.
Oct 15 18:49:57 <JoeBrain> I just want low-level access .
Oct 15 18:50:05 <muthu> lately its all about android
Oct 15 18:50:09 <Cedric2> Gennaro: full access from my experience
Oct 15 18:50:10 <Gennaro> JoeBrain: Amen!!!
Oct 15 18:50:14 <Cedric2> 3G for $20
Oct 15 18:52:04 <Gennaro> Some of you may be too young to remember this but, believe it or not there was a time in this country where privacy was not the exception and the customer was "ALWAYS" right.
Oct 15 18:52:07 <unix_lappy> muthu: no, it's all about android in here, most people havent heard extensively about what android offers.
Oct 15 18:52:54 <muthu> unix_lappy: agree, but i get a feeling its gonna get better by the day
Oct 15 18:53:10 <Gennaro> I work in an IT shop and only about 30% of the people I work with have heard about android. Work gives us or should I say enslaves us with Blackberry Phones (8820)
Oct 15 18:53:43 <unix_lappy> muthu: there hasnt been a marketing push by the carrier or google.
Oct 15 18:53:49 <Gennaro> They pay the bills too so most people here don't have a personal cell
Oct 15 18:54:28 <JoeBrain> I think if it was feasible, it would have been 100 times better for marketing if Google "made" the hardware too
Oct 15 18:54:32 <muthu> unix_lappy: the platform speaks for itself
Oct 15 18:54:42 <Gennaro> I think there has been some restraint in getting the work out by the hardware vendors. Maybe not wanting to just appear as backgroung noise in the iPhone hype
Oct 15 18:55:02 <muthu> but the carriers need to do a better job taking it to the end users
Oct 15 18:55:18 <muthu> 1.5m sales is not bad
Oct 15 18:55:43 <Gennaro> JoeBrain: Either way it is all made in China/Taiwan. Those folks can reverse engineer and remanufacture anything up to and including a hardon
Oct 15 18:55:49 <JoeBrain> Rg
Oct 15 18:56:12 <JoeBrain> But you've got too many names in the bundle, T-Mobile, HTC, Google
Oct 15 18:56:28 <Gennaro> Competition is a good thing
Oct 15 18:56:33 <JoeBrain> I think people get confused on how it ties together & where the Google comes into it
Oct 15 18:57:14 <JoeBrain> Which is what people would get excited about; noone cares about TMo or HTC
Oct 15 18:57:50 <Gennaro> look what happens when there is none. Just think back to a billing dispute with Verizon for local phone service or one of the Bell subsidies. Same thing. Who else is there. So basically your concerns are met with a condescendin, "piss off!" from the customer service reps.
Oct 15 18:58:15 <JoeBrain> Lol I still get that pretty much :P
Oct 15 18:58:25 <Gennaro> I think some people are worried that now Google really will have all their data
Oct 15 18:58:27 <JoeBrain> except indirect, roundabout blah blah blahs
Oct 15 18:59:20 <JoeBrain> True, though personally I'd rather have Google have my data than Apple; seems like more transparency regardless of if they are or not
Oct 15 18:59:24 <Gennaro> So yeah Blah Blah Blah is just piss off in phone rep talk. Kinda of like two cervezas por favor in Mexico means two beers please!
Oct 15 18:59:39 <JoeBrain> lol yea
Oct 15 18:59:40 <Gennaro> JoeBrain: I agree
Oct 15 19:00:00 <Gennaro> Ahhh I love latin women
Oct 15 19:00:10 <Gennaro> but that is for another channel. lol
Oct 15 19:00:16 <JoeBrain> lol #latin-women?
Oct 15 19:01:11 <zer0her0> haha
Oct 15 19:01:16 <Gennaro> We could do that! Right? I mean my wife is from El Salvador. And if it wasn't for the 70,000 gang members down there I would have just moved there.
Oct 15 19:01:20 <zer0her0> #<3-latin-women
Oct 15 19:01:21 <zer0her0> ;)
Oct 15 19:01:26 <Gennaro> But alas I digress
Oct 15 19:01:56 <Gennaro> My God!!! I need to get home ;-)
Oct 15 19:01:59 <JoeBrain> lol
Oct 15 19:02:14 <JoeBrain> All work & no play makes Jack a dull boy
Oct 15 19:02:31 <Gennaro> My friends who are not in IT always teaze me that she will leave me if I don't stop spending so much time on the PC
Oct 15 19:03:01 <JoeBrain> lol
Oct 15 19:03:30 <JoeBrain> better to have low-level access on your wife than a phone
Oct 15 19:03:31 <Gennaro> You got that right! -----> Besides who knows when the cable guy will decide to stop by or some stiff prick selling magazines. You always gotta be on your game.
Oct 15 19:03:47 <Gennaro> JoeBrain: You are wise beyond your years!!!
Oct 15 19:03:50 <JoeBrain> lol
Oct 15 19:04:25 <Gennaro> See the Android is already bringing us closer together!
Oct 15 19:04:30 <JoeBrain> maybe.. I still think getting married is a bad idea
Oct 15 19:04:42 <Gennaro> Kinda like National Lampoons Vegas Vacation
Oct 15 19:04:47 <JoeBrain> you going to buy one for your wife too?
Oct 15 19:05:02 <Gennaro> Funny how that sentiment continues to grow
Oct 15 19:05:14 <JoeBrain> :D
Oct 15 19:05:33 <Gennaro> Kidding me... I have to teach her English first. I don't think she can send e-mail.
Oct 15 19:05:51 * Gennaro scratches his head...
Oct 15 19:05:59 <JoeBrain> hahaha
Oct 15 19:06:00 <Gennaro> well at least I don't think she can
Oct 15 19:06:22 <Disconnect> i'd bet (although not a lot) that the base apps are localized at least a bit.
Oct 15 19:06:26 <JoeBrain> yeah, hang on to her now that she's got her green card
Oct 15 19:06:42 <Gennaro> I am a gringo and while the whole spanish thing is cool for a while. After 3 years of marriage I would love to have an english conversation at home.
Oct 15 19:06:59 <Gennaro> that didn't have as it's so content yes... or no...
Oct 15 19:07:07 <JoeBrain> Well if you live in Cali, it aint all that abnormal :)
Oct 15 19:08:05 <Gennaro> I have had many chances to go to medelline and can't figure a way to get my wife to let me go. After she knows that what happens in latin america doesn't stay in latin america
Oct 15 19:08:38 <JoeBrain> bring her with you
Oct 15 19:08:57 <Gennaro> She has no green card. The US Govt gave her something called TPS after she was evacuated because her town was destroyed in an earthquake
Oct 15 19:09:08 <JoeBrain> ah gotcha
Oct 15 19:09:18 <Gennaro> Latin woman are homicidally jealous
Oct 15 19:09:42 <JoeBrain> eek
Oct 15 19:10:01 <Gennaro> We are trying to get her permanent residence now. These days marrying an American citizen doesn't even get you a handshake.
Oct 15 19:10:07 <Disconnect> i know a sicilian she'd get along fabulously with (see earlier true story :) ..)
Oct 15 19:10:10 <muthu> haha
Oct 15 19:10:23 <muthu> true, the immigration laws are tightened up a lot
Oct 15 19:10:27 <Gennaro> You hear of Lorena Bobbit? She was from El Salvador. I say kill me now!!!
Oct 15 19:10:39 <Gennaro> lol
Oct 15 19:11:08 <Gennaro> The alternative is just too painful to consider
Oct 15 19:11:46 <JoeBrain> lol didnt realize that
Oct 15 19:12:07 <JoeBrain> but I did scroll up looking for Disconn's story & saw the story about your son instead
Oct 15 19:13:58 <JoeBrain> well there's only 1 thing left to keep me procrastinating then...
Oct 15 19:14:04 * JoeBrain goes to get coffee
Oct 15 19:17:17 * Disconnect was living in the nasty apartment complex across the street from the famous field (empty lot) they found .. anyway. yah. 
Oct 15 19:17:27 <Disconnect> there was an open pit bbq there for a few years after that (wtf??)
Oct 15 19:25:39 <BBHoss> what does unable to resolve superclass mean?  I'm trying to do a MapActivity with a MapView, and it keeps crashing and giving me this error:  http://pasternak.superalloy.nl/pastes/923
Oct 15 19:26:12 <BBHoss> here is my code: http://pasternak.superalloy.nl/pastes/924
Oct 15 19:27:32 <jasta> grr, Subclipse really drives me nuts sometimes
Oct 15 19:27:54 <jasta> it uses format 9 (which is like uber bleeding edge) and so busts my repository whenever i delete or move files
Oct 15 19:27:59 <jasta> then i cant use svn from ubuntu
Oct 15 19:27:59 <JoeBrain_> subversion drives me nuts sometimes
Oct 15 19:28:28 <languish> [14:56] <JoeBrain> I think people get confused on how it ties together & where the Google comes into it
Oct 15 19:28:28 <languish> [14:57] <JoeBrain> Which is what people would get excited about; noone cares about TMo or HTC
Oct 15 19:28:44 <JoeBrain_> I'm not allowed to do a svn co on a file, only directories?
Oct 15 19:28:44 <languish> Wait until we see "Motorola Android K7 with yahoo"
Oct 15 19:28:50 <JoeBrain_> lol
Oct 15 19:28:51 <languish> :|
Oct 15 19:29:56 <languish> "Sony Ericcsson Android XTC-69 with Dogpile"
Oct 15 19:29:59 <languish> :|
Oct 15 19:30:18 <JoeBrain_> Never heard of Dogpile, but sounds like....
Oct 15 19:30:27 <languish> and wait for it...
Oct 15 19:30:34 <JoeBrain_> doo doo
Oct 15 19:31:02 <languish> "Microsoft Windows Android Mobile Live 360 Platinum Ultimate Happy Joy Luck Good Time Edition"
Oct 15 19:31:18 <languish> aka MS WAM
Oct 15 19:31:30 <JoeBrain_> disturbing
Oct 15 19:31:37 <languish> isn't it though..
Oct 15 19:31:50 <JoeBrain_> well Windows Mobile is disturbing enough to me
Oct 15 19:32:11 <MrSnowflake> I have this keylistener which I set to an EditText. But I only want to know whether a key got pressed, so I want to call EditText.onKeyxxx(keyCode, event), but it throws, how come?
Oct 15 19:32:15 <JoeBrain_> Honestly I don't understand a mobile UI that basically requires a stylus :P
Oct 15 19:32:24 <Disconnect> languish: ms wam will be super-popular in korea
Oct 15 19:32:26 <languish> fat fingers
Oct 15 19:32:34 <languish> some people have issues with screentouch
Oct 15 19:32:40 <languish> I've seen it
Oct 15 19:32:43 <JoeBrain_> I've got skinny fingers & I still couldnt fiddle with WinMo
Oct 15 19:32:53 <languish> it's not pretty watching them hamfist iphones and other devices
Oct 15 19:33:15 <languish> so I understand the desire for stylus
Oct 15 19:33:39 <languish> and though I don't have that problem, I would have liked one with the g1, just to keep fingerprints off the screen at times
Oct 15 19:33:52 <languish> like when I want to use it while eating lunch
Oct 15 19:33:53 <JoeBrain_> Maybe the idea is that top guys that use WinMo use a secretary instead of a stylus :P
Oct 15 19:34:13 <languish> Dude, when you use a secretary, you don't do PDA
Oct 15 19:34:19 <languish> the wife might not appreciate it
Oct 15 19:34:20 <JoeBrain_> She does the PDA
Oct 15 19:34:23 <JoeBrain_> ah ic
Oct 15 19:34:24 <languish> :|
Oct 15 19:34:31 <JoeBrain_> :P
Oct 15 19:34:32 <umdk1d3> PDA... double entendre
Oct 15 19:34:36 <languish> ^_^
Oct 15 19:34:56 <languish> I just feel good that I didn't make the reference in vain.
Oct 15 19:35:06 <JoeBrain_> PDA is an oldcronym
Oct 15 19:35:21 <languish> yes, but there are some people that will just never get it
Oct 15 19:35:42 <JoeBrain_> Do they still make Palm devices that arent phones?
Oct 15 19:35:56 <languish> theys till make palm devices?
Oct 15 19:36:00 <languish> :\
Oct 15 19:36:01 <JoeBrain_> hahaha
Oct 15 19:36:32 <JoeBrain_> I heard the Centro2 was better than the first gen one, but it's impossible for it to be worse
Oct 15 19:36:52 <languish> Unless they go back to making the first one
Oct 15 19:36:56 <languish> and call it the centro 3
Oct 15 19:37:03 <languish> now in new colors
Oct 15 19:37:22 <JoeBrain_> I think they already tried the "new color" scheme
Oct 15 19:38:18 <JoeBrain_> "my phone still sucks, but hey... atleast it's red" ?
Oct 15 19:38:35 <languish> I was sort of suprised the g1 wasn't going to come in google colors, but it's understandable that they don't want it being pegged as a toy
Oct 15 19:39:17 <languish> but I'd totally go for a blue
Oct 15 19:39:18 <JoeBrain_> There's not even any Google branding on the device itself?
Oct 15 19:39:27 <languish> there is on the back
Oct 15 19:39:30 <JoeBrain_> ah k
Oct 15 19:39:41 <romainguy___> languish: the G1 is not a "Google phone"
Oct 15 19:39:49 <languish> romainguy, I'm aware
Oct 15 19:39:53 <romainguy___> Google participates in the making of the Android software
Oct 15 19:39:57 <romainguy___> that's it
Oct 15 19:39:58 <romainguy___> :)
Oct 15 19:40:01 <languish> but it's the google name selling it for now
Oct 15 19:40:12 <unix_lappy> i'm pretty sure there was a colorful discussion of who's name went where and how big it was, and what color, blah blah blah.
Oct 15 19:40:18 <languish> tmo or htc on their own would not have gotten this out the door
Oct 15 19:40:41 <JoeBrain_> yea, well tbh I'd be worried if they didn't want to put their name on it :)
Oct 15 19:40:47 <languish> heh
Oct 15 19:41:02 <languish> I just feel bad for HTC, as they were really hoping to get their own name branding out a bit more
Oct 15 19:41:31 <JoeBrain_> HTC needs to rebrand imo
Oct 15 19:41:36 <languish> It's obnoxious for carriers to rename their devices, like tmo naming the htc touch pro the "MDA Vario IV"
Oct 15 19:41:43 <unix_lappy> which is why when I hear fred wilson talk about "controlling the shelves" it really speaks to how well collaboration and synergy go in the tech world.
Oct 15 19:41:56 <JoeBrain_> Except when a device sucks... nobody knows :)
Oct 15 19:42:51 <languish> But then, it does help that they get different names, as the carriers have the devices customized, even in hardware
Oct 15 19:43:11 <languish> but "tmo touch pro" would have done the job
Oct 15 19:44:03 <JoeBrain> Sprint Mogul I think stayed teh same?
Oct 15 19:44:14 <Disconnect> romainguy___: if its not a google phone then why is google holding the sources until release? the -platform- came out weeks ago.......
Oct 15 19:44:16 <languish> Looking forward to a touch pro *style* device with some of the G1's features, running android
Oct 15 19:44:17 <JoeBrain> Though I thought that device was heinous.
Oct 15 19:44:47 <languish> Disconnect, to ensure appropriate security in the code
Oct 15 19:45:04 <languish> which is a smart move that benefits the consumer
Oct 15 19:45:05 <romainguy___> Disconnect: how is that related to it being a google phone or not?
Oct 15 19:45:31 <languish> he/she/it's indicating that google still has control of what runs the phone
Oct 15 19:45:49 <Disconnect> google is tying the sources to the phone by releasing together. "its a platform, honest, but you can't have sources until the phone is out. but its not really about the phone.. um.. except when it is."
Oct 15 19:46:03 <romainguy___> lol
Oct 15 19:46:13 <romainguy___> it's just that the source is not ready to be released :)
Oct 15 19:46:23 <Disconnect> here's the thing tho...
Oct 15 19:46:33 <languish> yes, they haven't thought up enough clever quips to put in to the comments yet
Oct 15 19:46:43 <Disconnect> if the source isn't ready, and you release the bins, then edit the source and release later, its -not- open source anymore...
Oct 15 19:47:01 <languish> it's technically, not open source "yet"
Oct 15 19:47:13 <romainguy___> Disconnect: we're not changing the source code
Oct 15 19:47:13 <Disconnect> 1.0r1 will never be open source because the sources are undergoing a ton of edits. 1.0r2 might be, remains to be seen, but..
Oct 15 19:47:22 <romainguy___> what are you talking about?
Oct 15 19:47:41 <languish> carriers will change the source code moreso than end users
Oct 15 19:47:46 <languish> or end devs
Oct 15 19:48:07 <languish> though I guess some people will work on the OS itself
Oct 15 19:48:18 <languish> should be interesting when it gets to that point
Oct 15 19:48:21 <romainguy___> Disconnect: we are going to release the source that was used to build the phones, period
Oct 15 19:48:41 <Disconnect> romainguy___: then i'm confused by what is happening this month. "languish(3:44pm) Disconnect, to ensure appropriate security in the code" .. how is that done without making changes? print it out and build a fort in your cube? :)
Oct 15 19:48:53 <romainguy___> did I say anything about security?
Oct 15 19:48:56 * Disconnect may be assuming languish knows more than he actually does
Oct 15 19:48:58 <languish> I said it
Oct 15 19:49:00 <romainguy___> does languish know anything about our source base?
Oct 15 19:49:01 <languish> :/
Oct 15 19:49:12 <languish> not a damn thing :)
Oct 15 19:49:28 <languish> but that's what's been going around as rumor
Oct 15 19:49:47 <romainguy___> and we all know how exact rumors usually are...
Oct 15 19:50:05 <languish> later source release to ensure nothing major was overlooked that would jeapardize user data security
Oct 15 19:50:27 <Disconnect> so - other than making sure that the google apps aren't included, which isn't too hard (or the ones that shouldn't be, you take my meaning) what does the delay do for google, tmob, htc and the android coalition other than deepening the feel that android is not a platform but rather a phone?
Oct 15 19:50:53 <languish> Disconnect, what does it matter if you end up getting the source at some point anyway?
Oct 15 19:51:00 <JoeBrain> If a tree calls a no op and source code isn't released yet, is it still open source?
Oct 15 19:51:05 <romainguy___> Disconnect: it looks like you haven't the slightest idea of how huge and complex the source tree of a project like Android can be :)
Oct 15 19:51:05 * Disconnect hasn't seen anything - marketing or otherwise - that says more than "it'll be out when the phone is out"
Oct 15 19:51:51 <Disconnect> firefox manages it.. even tivo manages it. and they have -way- more detangling to do than you (custom kernel modules, half open half closed userspace, disparate licenses, etc)
Oct 15 19:52:01 <umdk1d3> waaaat?
Oct 15 19:52:10 <umdk1d3> they have way -less- detangling
Oct 15 19:52:21 <romainguy___> Disconnect: you really have no idea what you're talking about :)
Oct 15 19:52:21 <VickiWong> Anyone know of an example for parsing some simple values from XML from the net that works with the new SDK, all the examples I can find give errors with things like GetChildNode
Oct 15 19:52:25 <romainguy___> just be patient, you'll get the source code
Oct 15 19:52:26 <umdk1d3> think about it, if you have a phone, half of the sourcecode might be coming from chipset manufacturers
Oct 15 19:52:36 <umdk1d3> *well not half, but a good chunk of it
Oct 15 19:53:32 <umdk1d3> ooh /me hopes for dexdump source  ^.^
Oct 15 19:53:51 <Disconnect> you are acting like someone woke up in sept and went "hey, wait! I know! lets release this as open source when it comes out next month!" ... this was planned from teh beginning, wasn't that the whole point of android?
Oct 15 19:54:25 <umdk1d3> sigh /ignore +Disconnect
Oct 15 19:55:08 <Disconnect> (the source release was, obviously i can't speak to when it was decided to tie it to the hw date)
Oct 15 19:57:53 <JoeBrain> gahhhh: "Subversion does not support checkout of a single file, it only supports checkout of directory structures."
Oct 15 19:58:09 * JoeBrain did not realize
Oct 15 19:58:12 <Disconnect> why would you want to?
Oct 15 19:58:20 <JoeBrain> random scripts
Oct 15 19:58:28 <jasta> yes, you are misusing subversion if you need this :)
Oct 15 19:58:40 <JoeBrain> I don't want them all & I'm not the author
Oct 15 19:59:25 <JoeBrain> so what method should I be using to keep the one-off script updated? & don't say USB :P
Oct 15 19:59:36 <JoeBrain> mailing-list?
Oct 15 19:59:39 <unix_lappy> seems like a reasonable feature to me.
Oct 15 20:00:10 <unix_lappy> git?
Oct 15 20:00:21 <JoeBrain> lol yeah I've been peeking @ git every now & again
Oct 15 20:00:33 <fadden> umdk1d3: why settle for dexdump source when you can have the entire VM?
Oct 15 20:00:56 <jasta> btw, i never did get an answer to my question earlier.  does anyone know how to peek at what the GC is actually collecting?
Oct 15 20:01:09 <jasta> D/dalvikvm( 1250): GC freed 834 objects / 71000 bytes in 78ms
Oct 15 20:01:14 <jasta> trying to figure out what those 834 objects might be...
Oct 15 20:01:21 <JoeBrain> unix_lappy: you use git?
Oct 15 20:01:26 <fadden> jasta: you can get "last N objects allocated" info out of DDMS
Oct 15 20:01:28 <jasta> it causes a stutter as i scroll, but im not sure where i would be allocating
Oct 15 20:01:33 <umdk1d3> jasta: i think ddms outside of eclipse offered a more-detailed view of GC'ing
Oct 15 20:01:40 <jasta> oh really?
Oct 15 20:01:45 <fadden> "allocation tracker" tab
Oct 15 20:02:08 <umdk1d3> it was weird that it /had/ to be outside of eclipse
Oct 15 20:02:14 <fadden> It's a sliding window; last 512 allocations.
Oct 15 20:02:27 <jasta> let me fire that up, hang on
Oct 15 20:07:19 <romainguy___> jasta: trying to figure out what those 834 objects might be... < easy, use DDMS
Oct 15 20:07:21 <romainguy___> outside of Eclipse
Oct 15 20:07:25 <romainguy___> it has an allocation tracker
Oct 15 20:07:30 <jasta> thats what they just said :)
Oct 15 20:07:34 <romainguy___> oops fadden already said it ^^
Oct 15 20:07:47 <SanMehat> 3hey jasta, you might want to use DDMS to figure out what all those objects are
Oct 15 20:07:49 <SanMehat> :)
Oct 15 20:08:28 <romainguy___> jasta: just in case, String.format is an allocations whore
Oct 15 20:09:40 <languish> man, the operator exclusive android app war coming up...
Oct 15 20:10:22 <languish> that's going to be both interesting to watch and frustrating to deal with
Oct 15 20:11:15 <jasta> ddms is much nicer outside of eclipse, wow
Oct 15 20:11:18 <jasta> i havent fired this up in ages
Oct 15 20:11:42 <VickiWong> anybody know of a simple example of parsing XML that works on current SDK?
Oct 15 20:11:50 <VickiWong> most examples I can find no longer work
Oct 15 20:12:08 <languish> romainguy___, is there any word you can share about Japanese language input for US android devices?
Oct 15 20:12:55 <umdk1d3> VickiWong: have you peeked at photostream source?  iirc it parses xml from flickr
Oct 15 20:13:26 <MrSnowflake> What should we use for displaying a menu with 6 options? A listview or just button?
Oct 15 20:14:27 <VickiWong> umdk1d3: I havent no, ill go look it up thanks :)
Oct 15 20:14:32 <umdk1d3> menu has a "more" option right?  kinda like how it works in browser
Oct 15 20:14:58 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: yeah, but it can show 6 without a more
Oct 15 20:15:20 <MrSnowflake> umdk1d3: Thanks, but that's not what I mean
Oct 15 20:15:31 <umdk1d3> VickiWong:  http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/trunk/Photostream/src/com/google/android/photostream/Flickr.java
Oct 15 20:16:07 <MrSnowflake> I have this app with 5 different things a user can do, and I do not want it in the real menu
Oct 15 20:16:15 <VickiWong> umdk1d3: thanks for the link, is this sample app included in the SDK? I dont recognise it
Oct 15 20:16:17 <umdk1d3> MrSnowflake: in that case i would use a scrollview with buttons, might be easier to handle onclick events explicitly
Oct 15 20:16:37 <umdk1d3> VickiWong: not with the sdk directly, but its more examples written by google folks
Oct 15 20:16:47 <VickiWong> umdk1d3: ahh nice
Oct 15 20:16:52 <MrSnowflake> k, thanks
Oct 15 20:17:16 <umdk1d3> MrSnowflake: you might do custom formatting on your buttons too, so they dont "look" like buttons
Oct 15 20:17:28 <umdk1d3> and use leftDrawable to get some icons in there
Oct 15 20:17:46 <umdk1d3> *drawableLeft
Oct 15 20:17:55 <MrSnowflake> Yes true, but I'm not really good with graphic design... :)
Oct 15 20:18:16 <umdk1d3> there are some good icons already provided
Oct 15 20:18:30 <zhobbs> there used to be like a ListDialog or something right?
Oct 15 20:19:20 <MrSnowflake> umdk1d3: I talking about the button itself :).
Oct 15 20:20:03 <umdk1d3> ohic
Oct 15 20:20:24 <zhobbs> MrSnowflake: look in APIDemos -> App -> Dialog -> List dialog
Oct 15 20:22:39 <Lenolium> So, I want to build a sortable list. I was thinking that you would click and hold to zoom in one row and then you could drag it around to where you wanted to put it. Is there anything prebuilt for this?
Oct 15 20:23:03 <MrSnowflake> thanks zhobbs, but I know those demo's I constantly look at them.
Oct 15 20:23:36 <MrSnowflake> and that's not really what I need
Oct 15 20:23:46 <zhobbs> ok
Oct 15 20:32:30 <VickiWong> For price conversion (when abroad for example) im trying to decide if using the barcode scanner to get the price, then converting it would be a good idea, or if it just simpler for people to type in the value
Oct 15 20:33:22 <zhobbs> VickiWong: how would you be able to get the price for that item in the store you are in?
Oct 15 20:34:26 <VickiWong> zhobbs: thats what im takling about, either scanning the barcode via camera preview, then decoding the price......or just letting the user type it in
Oct 15 20:34:30 <unix_lappy> especially abroad.
Oct 15 20:34:50 <VickiWong> barcode scanning has been achieved already on Android
Oct 15 20:35:00 <unix_lappy> VickiWong: no one is disputing that.
Oct 15 20:35:26 <zhobbs> VickiWong: yeah, but you can get the UPC....but who knows what the price is for that product in the mom-pop french drug store
Oct 15 20:35:47 <zhobbs> the price is not stored in the barcode
Oct 15 20:35:50 <unix_lappy> 2 dimensional barcode scanning is yet to be seen.
Oct 15 20:35:58 <umdk1d3> umm
Oct 15 20:36:04 <umdk1d3> the zxing lib does 2d barcode too
Oct 15 20:36:14 <umdk1d3> they demo it in their youtube vid
Oct 15 20:36:21 <Cedric2> unix_lappy: the barcode application parses 1D and 2D barcodes without any problem
Oct 15 20:36:49 <unix_lappy> awesome!  I really need to get back into the swing of things...been weeks.
Oct 15 20:38:17 <VickiWong> manual input it is :D
Oct 15 20:42:25 <unix_lappy> VickiWong: if your application was to sayyyy....track prices into a central database with some sort of validation then that would be pretty sweet.
Oct 15 20:42:55 <tethridge> is anybody working on OCR for android?
Oct 15 20:43:18 <unix_lappy> tethridge: I was just about to say that would require either OCR or manual curation.
Oct 15 20:43:25 <unix_lappy> ;-)
Oct 15 20:43:29 <VickiWong> unix_lappy: it would be, im focusing on currency conversion systems at moment though :D but nice thought
Oct 15 20:43:53 <tethridge> yeah, I'd love to have an app that would help me track nutrition values so when I'm training I can easily log it
Oct 15 20:44:24 <tethridge> I'd have it take a picture of the nutrition facts label and scan it using ocr to get the calories, etc.
Oct 15 20:44:29 <unix_lappy> tethridge: in a world where pretty high end scanners cant do OCR...chances are the media you need to detect wont be usable enough.
Oct 15 20:44:34 <tethridge> that is the most tedious part for me
Oct 15 20:44:51 <VickiWong> I want to see more media orientated apps, ala Canola
Oct 15 20:44:53 <tethridge> well, for a nutrition label, they are all about the same
Oct 15 20:44:57 <jasta> anyone else notice what happens if you press ALT+RIGHT or LEFT in the emu? :)
Oct 15 20:45:19 <tethridge> that's to swap your apps, right?
Oct 15 20:45:40 <jasta> is it?
Oct 15 20:45:42 <jasta> i have no idea
Oct 15 20:45:56 <jasta> it switches to the bootloader animation for me
Oct 15 20:46:16 <umdk1d3> i think that alt is different from the device alt key
Oct 15 20:46:20 <unix_lappy> how many bytes can a standard 2d barcode store?
Oct 15 20:46:27 <umdk1d3> also, its switching between virtual consoles seems like
Oct 15 20:46:30 <tethridge> oh, I'm not sure.  I remember them talking about being able to switch between apps using a combination like that
Oct 15 20:46:52 <unix_lappy> breadcruuuumb!
Oct 15 20:47:03 <umdk1d3> you can hold down the home button for a few seconds to show something like alt+tab
Oct 15 20:47:10 <umdk1d3> of all your running apps
Oct 15 20:48:49 <Disconnect> tethridge: fyi re nutrition values you can scan the upc and look online. i'd bet there's a service/db out there somewhere (if not.. easy enough to create one)
Oct 15 20:49:10 <tethridge> I had thought the same thing
Oct 15 20:49:12 <unix_lappy> there's a db out there without a doubt, but likely no API.
Oct 15 20:49:32 <tethridge> I looked, there is a nutritiondb.com, but they want you to pay to access their info
Oct 15 20:49:40 <tethridge> I'm not sure they have upc codes anyway
Oct 15 20:50:02 <tethridge> guess I need to start opennutritiondb.org.  :-)
Oct 15 20:51:57 <unix_lappy> tethridge: meh, certain products cater to certain demographics, those companies decide whether the principle of "naked conversations" and new media is an effective use of capital.
Oct 15 20:52:32 <unix_lappy> for instance, altria would have very stringent rules for how to use new media and access to information.
Oct 15 20:52:59 <zhobbs> when would you have access to the UPC and not the nutritional stats?
Oct 15 20:53:10 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: very good point  :)
Oct 15 20:53:12 <tethridge> well, judging by the iPhone apps out there, there is a lot of interest in a portable nutrition log app
Oct 15 20:53:41 <tethridge> at a restaurant
Oct 15 20:53:43 <zhobbs> tethridge: I agree it would be good for restaurants
Oct 15 20:53:43 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: after you've consumed the product.
Oct 15 20:54:03 <umdk1d3> his point is that the barcode is usually right next to the nutrition facts on the label
Oct 15 20:54:32 <unix_lappy> and my point is that information isnt relevant for the app at POS, it's more relevant afterwards.
Oct 15 20:57:59 <zhobbs> actually, barcode would make sense....you could scan every item you ate all day to track your intake
Oct 15 20:58:21 <jasta> well, except when you eat out or cook
Oct 15 20:58:26 <zhobbs> yeah
Oct 15 20:58:33 <jasta> you'd need to have a meal builder type templating system
Oct 15 20:58:38 <zhobbs> yeah
Oct 15 20:58:41 <tethridge> when you cook, you could just scan the ingredients
Oct 15 20:58:56 <tethridge> you would need to be able to search too
Oct 15 20:58:57 <jasta> tethridge: and meticulously key in units?
Oct 15 20:59:10 <tethridge> well, that's where the open database comes in
Oct 15 20:59:11 <zhobbs> would be better off having a recipe database of healthy meals
Oct 15 20:59:15 <jasta> 1 tbs. salt, etc.
Oct 15 20:59:28 <tethridge> if you could just scan the UPC it would be fast
Oct 15 20:59:31 <jasta> yes it would be better to include your own recipes, then let users add their own
Oct 15 20:59:42 <jasta> such an app would take a lot of energy to build properly
Oct 15 20:59:46 <tethridge> scan and then it shows you the food facts and asks how many servings
Oct 15 20:59:48 <zhobbs> apps like these should really be subscription based by like weight watchers or something
Oct 15 20:59:50 <jasta> lots of nuances
Oct 15 21:00:14 <dmoffett> Maybe you could also use the accelerometer to measure how many calories you burn as well.
Oct 15 21:00:15 <unix_lappy> or...you could just stop stuffing your face and go play some proper sport like...football :-)
Oct 15 21:00:51 <zhobbs> unix_lappy: I'd rather use my accelerometer and get credit for the 25 ft walk from the office to the car, etc
Oct 15 21:01:27 <tethridge> well, when I'm training for triathlons it helps when you have a somewhat realistic log of what you eaten.  Otherwise you're just guessing whether or not you have had enough protein for the day.
Oct 15 21:01:43 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: the accelerometer as a pedometer is a decent idea, but nutrition tracking is a terrible way to enforce healthy eating.
Oct 15 21:01:51 <tethridge> it does seem like you could use it as a pedometer
Oct 15 21:01:54 <unix_lappy> especially when technology is concerned.
Oct 15 21:02:05 <tethridge> it works for some
Oct 15 21:02:06 <umdk1d3> yay its wednesday, new zeropunctuation
Oct 15 21:02:11 <tethridge> that is all that weight watchers is
Oct 15 21:02:23 <tethridge> that and social gatherings each week to keep you on track
Oct 15 21:02:24 <unix_lappy> especially when unhealthy eatings underlying causes arent lack of proper documentation.
Oct 15 21:02:31 <jasta> actually tethridge is generally right.
Oct 15 21:02:39 <tethridge> they just simplify the nutrition information by having "points"
Oct 15 21:02:44 <tethridge> which are calulated
Oct 15 21:02:56 <tethridge> based on calories, fat, protein, etc
Oct 15 21:03:14 <unix_lappy> meh, it seems like a reasonable endeavor if you've got a profit model tied to a nutrition service...but not as a standalone app.
Oct 15 21:03:35 <zhobbs> yeah, sell it to weight watchers
Oct 15 21:03:41 <tethridge> I'm not in it for a profit
Oct 15 21:03:49 <tethridge> I want the app so that I can use it
Oct 15 21:03:57 <tethridge> open source the app
Oct 15 21:03:58 <zhobbs> I think there's a lot of opportunity out there for mobile software consulting....
Oct 15 21:04:09 <f00f-> i think so too, zach
Oct 15 21:04:24 <unix_lappy> well, it fits their demographic, fat people with disposable income.
Oct 15 21:05:15 <f00f-> heh
Oct 15 21:05:26 <zhobbs> hey f00f-, any news with PedNav?
Oct 15 21:05:45 <tethridge> unix_lappy, don't talk about my mom!  :-)
Oct 15 21:05:56 <zhobbs> hehe
Oct 15 21:07:10 <languish> I wonder if between the bluetooth, the camera, and the accelerometer.. the g1 can be used like a wiimote
Oct 15 21:07:14 <unix_lappy> anyway, i think mobile applications that involve mobile manual curation are fascinating...
Oct 15 21:07:28 <f00f-> zhobbs: not really, just finishing things up. no definite date yet.
Oct 15 21:08:35 <unix_lappy> f00f-: looks like a cool app, that's routeme2 build on?
Oct 15 21:09:13 <unix_lappy> erm, what's*
Oct 15 21:09:19 <f00f-> yes..
Oct 15 21:09:22 <f00f-> oh?
Oct 15 21:09:27 <f00f-> android?
Oct 15 21:09:37 <unix_lappy> website.
Oct 15 21:10:00 <f00f-> the web site? plain old HTML.
Oct 15 21:10:20 <f00f-> it's pretty ugly
Oct 15 21:10:47 <unix_lappy> so is vorty.com
Oct 15 21:11:01 <unix_lappy> ;-)
Oct 15 21:11:58 <f00f-> haven't even updated the screenshots
Oct 15 21:12:05 <f00f-> but yeah the app needs quite a bit more polish
Oct 15 21:15:42 <unix_lappy> novel idea though, along the same lines as the adaptivepath demo.
Oct 15 21:17:31 <mkitzman> w00t!
Oct 15 21:17:47 <mkitzman> did anybody else here pre-order a G1?
Oct 15 21:18:08 <zhobbs> you get yours?
Oct 15 21:18:15 <mkitzman> not yet....
Oct 15 21:18:48 <mkitzman> I can't wait though!!!
Oct 15 21:18:56 <jasta> i didnt, i wasnt eligible as far as i know
Oct 15 21:19:50 <mkitzman> I didn't qualify for an upgrade, I have only been with T-Mobile for a few months now, but I couldn't resist
Oct 15 21:20:09 <jasta> right, but i thought you had to have been with t-mobile to preorder
Oct 15 21:20:16 <jasta> oh well, i'm gonna go stand in line on the first day
Oct 15 21:20:17 <jasta> i'll get one :P
Oct 15 21:20:28 <f00f-> nice
Oct 15 21:20:30 <jasta> if i don't get one, i will burn that mother fucking store down
Oct 15 21:20:31 <mkitzman> ah, perhaps that is the case.
Oct 15 21:20:32 <zhobbs> I need to find out where they are around here....
Oct 15 21:20:58 <dmoffett> None in DC or Denver.
Oct 15 21:21:06 <mkitzman> really?
Oct 15 21:21:14 <mkitzman> Denver CO?
Oct 15 21:21:14 <dmoffett> I am trying to get one from St. Petersburg, FL.
Oct 15 21:21:30 <tethridge> they don't have 3g in Raleigh, NC so I wouldn't even consider tmo
Oct 15 21:21:41 <dmoffett> I called the store in Denver and they said not until 3G arrives.
Oct 15 21:21:50 <dmoffett> Surprised about DC though.
Oct 15 21:22:19 <dmoffett> Baltimore apparently have them but you will have to race up 95 to beat Plusminus.
Oct 15 21:22:21 <f00f-> hahahah
Oct 15 21:22:26 <f00f-> jasta i love your enthusiasm
Oct 15 21:22:30 <mkitzman> interesting, because I live in a small town in western Colorado called Grand Junction, and I went to the kiosk in our one and only mall, and they told me that they would have it in...
Oct 15 21:22:43 <dmoffett> no shit I am in Montrose.
Oct 15 21:22:52 <mkitzman> yeah
Oct 15 21:23:08 <dmoffett> We should form the Western Slope Android group.  Two guys and a pickup truck.
Oct 15 21:23:16 <mkitzman> that is what they told me, but they could be liars
Oct 15 21:23:43 <dmoffett> So Grand Junction has #g?
Oct 15 21:23:47 <dmoffett> 3G.
Oct 15 21:23:49 <mkitzman> nope
Oct 15 21:24:02 <mkitzman> not from t-mobile anyway
Oct 15 21:24:16 <jasta> f00f-: ugh :)
Oct 15 21:25:27 <dmoffett> I would be surprised if they are in GJ but I would like to get one locally for sure.
Oct 15 21:25:33 <mkitzman> as far as I can tell from the map, they have the EDGE network out here.
Oct 15 21:26:06 <mkitzman> You might give the kiosk in Mesa Mall a jingle just to confirm.
Oct 15 21:26:22 <mkitzman> about the EDGE network and the arrival of G1's
Oct 15 21:26:34 <dmoffett> Please let me know.
Oct 15 21:26:42 <dmoffett> Save me a lot of hassle.
Oct 15 21:27:01 <VickiWong> Anyone know of a simple xml parsing sample that works with current sdk?
Oct 15 21:27:21 <VickiWong> anyone else think the G1 looks ugly?
Oct 15 21:27:39 <jasta> yes, i do
Oct 15 21:27:40 <jasta> really ugly
Oct 15 21:27:40 <mkitzman> it's what is inside that counts.
Oct 15 21:27:46 <jasta> but im still buying one ;)
Oct 15 21:28:01 <jasta> and it has a ton of stuff missing that it shouldn't, but i'll still buy one :)
Oct 15 21:28:02 <VickiWong> we need a decent looking device
Oct 15 21:28:05 <dmoffett> Not as sleek as the iPhone but the keyboard is essential.
Oct 15 21:28:11 * jasta bets it doesn't have IMAP IDLE support either
Oct 15 21:28:20 <jasta> tho i hope the e-mail app is open source so we can add support quickly
Oct 15 21:28:55 <VickiWong> something along the lines of N810 would be quite nice I think, has keyboard
Oct 15 21:29:46 <jasta> well, nothing you can do about it now
Oct 15 21:29:47 <jasta> so :)
Oct 15 21:30:07 <jasta> i just want the damn thing so bad :)
Oct 15 21:30:11 <jasta> five is "ready" hehe
Oct 15 21:30:19 <jasta> and i want to start using it
Oct 15 21:30:26 <unix_lappy> jasta: well aside from 3.5mm, a2dp, a multitouch screen, what else hardware wise is missing?
Oct 15 21:31:08 <jasta> i dont care about multitouch actually
Oct 15 21:31:15 <jasta> but, it's ugly, that's what's wrong with it hardware wise.
Oct 15 21:31:16 <romainguy> multitouch is really overrated imo
Oct 15 21:31:17 <jasta> software wise, oh boy.
Oct 15 21:31:24 <jasta> software wise... a lot ;)
Oct 15 21:31:26 <JoeBrain> yeah multitouch isnt a "must"
Oct 15 21:31:32 <tethridge> I think jasta meant that simple stuff like video playback is missing
Oct 15 21:31:47 <languish> video playback's not missing
Oct 15 21:31:52 <VickiWong> i think it's generally a crappy device, we need some other releases soon
Oct 15 21:31:54 <unix_lappy> tethridge: you mean flash video?
Oct 15 21:31:57 <languish> it's just 3rd party available
Oct 15 21:32:00 <zhobbs> multi-touch for zooming is nice because it's continuous, verses stepping to different zoom levels
Oct 15 21:32:07 <tethridge> no I mean mp4
Oct 15 21:32:12 <tethridge> it's a separate app
Oct 15 21:32:15 <tethridge> it shouldn't be
Oct 15 21:32:16 <unix_lappy> is flash built for chrome?
Oct 15 21:32:20 <JoeBrain> what about a slider zhobbs?
Oct 15 21:32:21 <languish> why shouldn't it be?
Oct 15 21:32:23 <unix_lappy> erm, webkit.
Oct 15 21:32:24 <romainguy> zhobbs: I found that it doesn't work that well actually
Oct 15 21:32:30 <romainguy> but that's just my personal experience
Oct 15 21:32:31 <tethridge> I mean should
Oct 15 21:32:33 <tethridge> sorry
Oct 15 21:32:40 <unix_lappy> erm, for the android browser.
Oct 15 21:32:55 <JoeBrain> multitouch works well for me, but I only use it on websites (occasionally photos)
Oct 15 21:32:59 <tethridge> it should be built in so that users can load videos without having to hit the app store
Oct 15 21:33:08 <zhobbs> romainguy: have only played with iphones, haven't used one extensively
Oct 15 21:33:35 <languish> is there any definitive word about Japanese language input for US android devices?
Oct 15 21:33:42 <tethridge> I think the browser is going to drive me nuts
Oct 15 21:33:59 <unix_lappy> hmm, no flash support on android as of yet....
Oct 15 21:34:01 <jasta> yeah, i dont like the browser actually.  i never used the iphones tho, but i bet it similarly sucks
Oct 15 21:34:09 <tethridge> I think the way the iphone loads the page and zooms out is much better than just showing a full size piece of the top left
Oct 15 21:34:12 <jasta> mobile web is sucky, honestly.  it's too hard a problem to solve right :)
Oct 15 21:34:19 <romainguy> zhobbs: the HUGE drawback of multitouch zoom is that there's no way you can use it with one hand and still hold the device :))
Oct 15 21:34:29 <jasta> thats wy android can be better: _LESS_ web apps :)
Oct 15 21:34:39 <jasta> native apps are so much nicer for so many reasons
Oct 15 21:34:51 <zhobbs> romainguy: yeah, I like the idea of being able to do anything with one hand if I need to
Oct 15 21:34:52 <jasta> google gears is such a crutch :)
Oct 15 21:35:03 <zhobbs> romainguy: that's why we need a soft keyboard option with the G1
Oct 15 21:35:03 <languish> except type :/
Oct 15 21:35:05 <f00f-> but then we need to write more code :/
Oct 15 21:35:06 <languish> heh
Oct 15 21:35:21 <languish> You know..
Oct 15 21:35:28 <jasta> f00f-: writing more code to make better apps isn't a bad thing.
Oct 15 21:35:36 <jasta> i mean, rather than writing less code making worse apps :)
Oct 15 21:35:38 <languish> I just had a pretty interesting idea for using the g1 with navigation aids
Oct 15 21:35:43 <Cedric2> Ship date in two weeks or (ship dates in six months with a soft keyboard). Pick one.
Oct 15 21:35:44 <languish> f00f-, you have a sec?
Oct 15 21:36:03 <f00f-> so i'll have an app on android, symbian, java me, iphone
Oct 15 21:36:07 <romainguy> Cedric2: 22nd is in one week :p
Oct 15 21:36:10 <f00f-> languish: yeah what's up?
Oct 15 21:36:39 <tethridge> I find it hard to believe that a on-screen keyboard would take six months
Oct 15 21:37:21 <tethridge> I'm sure that an on-screen keyboard is already coded
Oct 15 21:41:01 <jasta> probably...
Oct 15 21:41:04 <jasta> but it probably also sucks :)
Oct 15 21:41:25 <Cedric2> tethridge: you're missing the point
Oct 15 21:42:16 <tethridge> I think the g1 is a good first android phone
Oct 15 21:42:38 <tethridge> we don't have to worry about the apple fans yelling that google is just copying the iphone
Oct 15 21:42:49 <Cedric2> Oh but they will
Oct 15 21:42:54 <Cedric2> they already do actually
Oct 15 21:42:59 <tethridge> but, I really think for it to take off, they are going to need some sexy hardware
Oct 15 21:43:36 <tethridge> 1.5 million geeks are going to be locked into tmo for two years, so they'll have to branch out and get some other types.  :-)
Oct 15 21:47:00 <MrSnowflake> I really don't get why they didn't make something like the touch hd
Oct 15 21:47:18 <VickiWong> anyone know the Youtube video showcasing a Home replacement?
Oct 15 21:47:24 <VickiWong> for android
Oct 15 21:47:37 <romainguy> what about it?
Oct 15 21:48:06 <VickiWong> anyoen know the link/video name?
Oct 15 21:48:09 <VickiWong> sorry :D
Oct 15 21:48:28 <romainguy> http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=3aUjukCdPyQ
Oct 15 21:48:39 <romainguy> you can find the links to all the other videos on code.google.com/android
Oct 15 21:48:52 <VickiWong> romainguy: thats the one, thnaks :)
Oct 15 21:48:56 <VickiWong> thanks*
Oct 15 21:50:40 <VickiWong> The difference between the home screen seen on G1 and the mulator, is that an alternative home screen? (with the dock-like feature at the bottom of the screen)
Oct 15 21:50:40 <tethridge> romainguy, explain your shirt, please
Oct 15 21:50:52 <romainguy___> it's pretty self-explanatory :)
Oct 15 21:51:05 <tethridge> I must be slow
Oct 15 21:51:13 <tethridge> shit head?
Oct 15 21:51:30 <romainguy___> tethridge: http://store.valvesoftware.com/productpages/apparel/product_HL2DMShirt.html
Oct 15 21:52:05 <VickiWong> romainguy: oh your the engineer on the video?
Oct 15 21:52:19 <romainguy___> one of them yes
Oct 15 21:52:20 <fadden> We actually fired all the other engineers.  He's the only one now.
Oct 15 21:52:26 <fadden> I sell soap.
Oct 15 21:52:26 <romainguy___> lol
Oct 15 21:52:34 <VickiWong> with the way dev is going i assumed there was only one
Oct 15 21:52:36 <VickiWong> ...
Oct 15 21:52:55 <tethridge> romainguy, is your book app going to be available?
Oct 15 21:52:58 <fadden> OTOH, you will notice he is very clean.
Oct 15 21:53:05 <romainguy___> tethridge: when I'm done with it, yes
Oct 15 21:53:27 <tethridge> is it for books only or does it work like delicious monster?
Oct 15 21:53:30 <romainguy___> fadden: that can't be, I'm French, am I not supposed to be filthy?
Oct 15 21:53:39 <romainguy___> tethridge: books only
Oct 15 21:53:42 <fadden> romainguy__: you're thinking of the Irish
Oct 15 21:53:53 <romainguy> :)
Oct 15 21:54:03 <VickiWong> romainguy: are you US based? finding it hard to find info on Google's London office and their involvment with android, I thought they had a large mobile team there
Oct 15 21:55:01 <Cedric2> They do, but we're mostly based in Mountain View
Oct 15 21:55:19 <Cedric2> (hope nobody from the other offices in the US are reading this)
Oct 15 21:56:33 <VickiWong> just that a firend of mine was looking to do an internship placement at Google london, but he was only really interested in Android dev (when it comes to Goole anyway)
Oct 15 21:57:57 <VickiWong> Cedric2: yeah i thought most of android related stuff was done in the US too
Oct 15 21:58:40 <unix_lappy> hah, 2x24" vertical, nice.
Oct 15 21:59:15 <dmoffett> mkitzman: Any word about G1 in GJ?
Oct 15 22:02:14 <MrSnowflake> How do you get to work at Google anyway? I mean, don't all software developers want to work there?
Oct 15 22:02:28 <Cedric2> You apply, take the interview, nothing out of the ordinary
Oct 15 22:02:33 <zhobbs> MrSnowflake: I interviewed there....got worked in the interview
Oct 15 22:02:33 <MrSnowflake> Maybe their admision exam is to prove N=NP
Oct 15 22:02:41 <zhobbs> just a phone interview actually
Oct 15 22:02:46 <fadden> Or start a company doing something interesting and get acquired.
Oct 15 22:02:47 <MrSnowflake> cool
Oct 15 22:02:54 <Cedric2> MrSnowflake: yup, that was one of the questions I was asked, I had 10mn to solve it.
Oct 15 22:02:59 <MrSnowflake> Hehe
Oct 15 22:03:04 <Cedric2> it was the easiest of the interview, though
Oct 15 22:03:12 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 15 22:03:18 <f00f-> heh
Oct 15 22:03:21 <JoeBrain> I'm slow on IRC, but me likely the dual 24"  monitors side-by-side portrait mode
Oct 15 22:03:24 <f00f-> total CS stuff
Oct 15 22:03:25 <fadden> P=NP would be much easier.
Oct 15 22:03:28 <VickiWong> MrSnowflake: this is as a student work placement, a bit different
Oct 15 22:04:23 <zhobbs> JoeBrain: I agree, pretty nice rig
Oct 15 22:04:36 <JoeBrain> it just shouts sexy work efficiency
Oct 15 22:05:19 <JoeBrain> like a hot german chick
Oct 15 22:05:49 <zhobbs> I have a 28" monitor, but it can't go portrait...or I'd get another
Oct 15 22:06:19 <JoeBrain> I've tried 30" & it was too hard to track my mouse & my neck hurt; ok for videos
Oct 15 22:06:26 <JoeBrain> or photoshop
Oct 15 22:06:37 <VickiWong> i have a 12" laptop screen
Oct 15 22:06:41 <MrSnowflake> hehe :)
Oct 15 22:06:43 <VickiWong> and 15" pc monitor
Oct 15 22:06:44 <VickiWong> beat that
Oct 15 22:07:03 <JoeBrain> 12" laptop screen! do you have to hunch wayyy down to type?
Oct 15 22:07:09 <JoeBrain> must be a tiny keyboard :(
Oct 15 22:07:35 <VickiWong> JoeBrain: I have it on a high table, sitting on low chair :D
Oct 15 22:07:50 <languish> one of my co-workers uses a video visor :/
Oct 15 22:07:52 <VickiWong> im sitting on a low chair*
Oct 15 22:07:52 <JoeBrain> :) USB/BT keyboard too I hope
Oct 15 22:08:07 <VickiWong> JoeBrain: USB keyboard + mouse lol
Oct 15 22:08:13 <languish> no screen on his desk
Oct 15 22:08:13 <JoeBrain> lol even for ergonomic benefits, I'm not sure I could bring myself to use a video visor...
Oct 15 22:08:30 <JoeBrain> I mean I'm alone in my cube most of the time, but still..
Oct 15 22:08:34 <MrSnowflake> depends how much strain it puts on your eyes
Oct 15 22:08:47 <languish> he likes to recline when he works
Oct 15 22:08:56 <languish> sometimes difficult to tell when he's reading or sleeping
Oct 15 22:09:03 <languish> :|
Oct 15 22:09:09 <MrSnowflake> or watching movies :)
Oct 15 22:09:10 <VickiWong> languish: thats the real reason for using it methinks
Oct 15 22:09:11 <JoeBrain> hahaha
Oct 15 22:09:19 <JoeBrain> I'm starting to rethink using a video visor
Oct 15 22:09:23 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 15 22:09:25 <languish> MrSnowflake, no.. I think he heads to the restroom for that :/
Oct 15 22:09:26 <VickiWong> 'increased productivity' my arse
Oct 15 22:09:30 <MrSnowflake> hahaha
Oct 15 22:09:46 <MrSnowflake> using the video visor he can look at his code in 3d!
Oct 15 22:10:13 <VickiWong> MrSnowflake: could you think of a more headache inducing scene? 2d code is bad enough
Oct 15 22:10:42 <MrSnowflake> But the 3D code could be something like the 'unix' in Jurasic Park 1
Oct 15 22:10:55 <MrSnowflake> some magic is involed though
Oct 15 22:11:03 <VickiWong> lol
Oct 15 22:11:18 <JoeBrain> or it could just be Jurassic Park 1
Oct 15 22:11:54 <languish> nah, but he does output individual *nix windows to the visors display, swapping between them
Oct 15 22:12:04 <languish> the lcd's in those things aren't the highest rez
Oct 15 22:12:30 <languish> but the ones he uses are better than 320x240
Oct 15 22:12:38 <JoeBrain> major nerd points either way
Oct 15 22:12:57 <MrSnowflake> :)
Oct 15 22:13:33 <MrSnowflake> Actually with such visors you could view 2 source files at the same time! Learn 1 handed dvorak and you have some speedy development going on
Oct 15 22:14:26 <languish> haha
Oct 15 22:14:46 <languish> I'm just glad he gets his work done
Oct 15 22:14:50 <MrSnowflake> hehe
Oct 15 22:14:52 <ismarc> I think I'll send them an email later today or tomorrow.  I had forgotten about the new "openness" of microsoft this year.
Oct 15 22:15:02 <ismarc> or I can forget to mash /msg in front of that
Oct 15 22:15:18 <languish> that reminds me
Oct 15 22:15:38 <languish> Anyone heading to the NYC G1 launch tomorrow, and have an open spot as your +1 guest?
Oct 15 22:16:06 <MrSnowflake> I would go if I wasn't like 6000 km away
Oct 15 22:16:17 <languish> You received an invite?
Oct 15 22:16:24 <languish> It's a private shindig appearently
Oct 15 22:16:36 <MrSnowflake> I would crash the party
Oct 15 22:16:39 <languish> lol
Oct 15 22:17:09 <JoeBrain> Thursday party? :(
Oct 15 22:17:13 <languish> yeah
Oct 15 22:18:33 <JoeBrain> meh I probably wouldnt know anyone there anyways
Oct 15 22:18:48 <languish> 'eh, get to meet your favorite bloggers
Oct 15 22:18:49 <languish> lol
Oct 15 22:19:00 <JoeBrain> hahah
Oct 15 22:19:06 <languish> I know a few, but their +1's are filled
Oct 15 22:19:22 <JoeBrain> I'm a fan, but not yet a groupie :D
Oct 15 22:19:39 <languish> 'eh, I just know them through work and other activities
Oct 15 22:19:52 <languish> can't say I'm any individuals fan
Oct 15 22:19:59 <languish> cept my wife
Oct 15 22:20:03 <JoeBrain> hahaha
Oct 15 22:20:07 <unix_lappy> lol @ n=np was easiest.
Oct 15 22:20:08 <languish> :D
Oct 15 22:21:54 <gdsx> unix_lappy: n=np? huh?
Oct 15 22:24:32 <languish> Ah nice, just stumbled across a guy dev'ing a video recording app for android
Oct 15 22:24:46 <MrSnowflake> nice
Oct 15 22:24:55 <languish> sweetness, thy name is open development
Oct 15 22:25:03 <languish> http://sadko.mobi/camline/screen.html
Oct 15 22:25:05 <JoeBrain> Not sure why video apps are so big news?
Oct 15 22:25:21 <languish> joe, because the g1 is launching without video recording
Oct 15 22:25:42 <languish> and it's a very handy thing to have in a portable device
Oct 15 22:26:46 <MrSnowflake> JoeBrain: how is it implemented? directly capture from the Canvas?
Oct 15 22:27:17 <JoeBrain> hrmm I guess I'm not active enough on soc. networking sites to want vid. recording :)
Oct 15 22:27:31 * languish doesn't do socnet sites either
Oct 15 22:27:46 <languish> irc is as social as my online networking gets
Oct 15 22:28:24 <languish> but living in NYC, I often capture the most awesome/outrageous/funny/scary/weird shit on video
Oct 15 22:28:27 <jasta> ...irc is pretty darn social
Oct 15 22:28:56 <f00f-> i agree, i occasionally like to make video documentaries
Oct 15 22:28:59 <JoeBrain> is social networking redundant?
Oct 15 22:29:04 <languish> no
Oct 15 22:29:08 <ismarc> jasta: yes, but it's social in the anonymous kind of way, opposite the social networking sites which are geared towards advertising who you are
Oct 15 22:29:08 <snadge> the more things the G1 can do.. the less reason there is to pay it out for being crap.. see iPhone as an example of what im talking about ;)
Oct 15 22:29:41 <languish> irc isn't as anonymous as so many would like to think lol
Oct 15 22:29:43 <JoeBrain> everyone will find a way to pay it out if it's worth anything
Oct 15 22:29:59 <Cedric2> Little joke from 10mn ago
Oct 15 22:30:08 <languish> then again, I'm an efnet whore
Oct 15 22:30:12 <languish> *shrug*
Oct 15 22:30:21 <snadge> i think you're missing the point though.. the people i know dont pay out the iPhone because its worth something.. its because of its lack of worth.. most people i know, refuse to buy an iPhone for intelligent reasons
Oct 15 22:31:07 <snadge> most of the time, the lack of features is the #1 concern .. the second problem is its very restrictive nature
Oct 15 22:31:22 <languish> snadge, the iphone is notably an attractive device. if it were ugly, it wouldn't have been popular, lack or worth or otherwise
Oct 15 22:31:38 <MrSnowflake> snadge: for me it's having to pay €100 to run my own apps, and I don't have a mac :)
Oct 15 22:31:42 <languish> and I didn't buy one because it didn't have a physical keyboard
Oct 15 22:31:42 <languish> lol
Oct 15 22:31:44 <snadge> if it were that attractive.. i, and my friends, would want one
Oct 15 22:32:03 <MrSnowflake> languish: also very important, love it on my htc wizard
Oct 15 22:32:07 <languish> when the iphone first launched, it was what considered sleek
Oct 15 22:32:11 <ismarc> languish: same reason I don't have one...I have to work with iPhones and the onscreen keyboard doesn't work well for folks with big stubby fingers
Oct 15 22:32:14 <snadge> exactly.. this isnt exactly a non bias forum to bring up this point.. but all im hearing is negative things about it ;)
Oct 15 22:32:17 <languish> now it's a bit long in the tooth
Oct 15 22:32:34 <MrSnowflake> snadge: why would you want a sleek device, which already every1 has?
Oct 15 22:32:42 <ttuttle> Hey, question:
Oct 15 22:32:53 <Cedric2> "Think different: buy a G1"
Oct 15 22:32:53 <languish> snadge, I agree with not liking the iphone, but I'm not going to deny it has positive points. They just don't overcome it's negatives for me
Oct 15 22:33:04 <languish> *its
Oct 15 22:33:05 <snadge> what do you mean every1? NONE of my friends have an iPhone.. I only know one person who has one.. and I insult him for buying one, and it doesnt impress me :P
Oct 15 22:33:20 <snadge> languish: i think thats exactly my point ;)
Oct 15 22:33:38 <Cedric2> No need to insult unbelievers, although I do feel a bit like McCain appeasing his supporters while saying that
Oct 15 22:33:41 <JoeBrain> they overcome the negatives of most other phones for me, which is the important part
Oct 15 22:33:43 <languish> The majority of people I know that have iphones, are in *gag* marketing, or some form of social business position..sales..
Oct 15 22:33:50 <ttuttle> languish: heh
Oct 15 22:34:00 <snadge> i know way more people who have winmo phones like the htc tytn ii
Oct 15 22:34:02 <languish> status symbol
Oct 15 22:34:09 <snadge> now thats scary
Oct 15 22:34:13 <languish> heh
Oct 15 22:34:15 <JoeBrain> I tried the HTC Mogul & hated it
Oct 15 22:34:32 <snadge> at least winmo is actually useful though.. features++
Oct 15 22:34:32 <ttuttle> JoeBrain: Was it the OS, or the phone?
Oct 15 22:34:37 <JoeBrain> Both actually
Oct 15 22:34:42 <languish> ost people I know, have the Q, razr, or a crackberry
Oct 15 22:34:52 <JoeBrain> Why have a touchscreen if you have to use the stylus? (I have skinny fingers)
Oct 15 22:34:53 <MrSnowflake> languish: Having an iPhone for status symbol makes you a douch.
Oct 15 22:35:10 <unix_lappy> whoops, p = np
Oct 15 22:35:14 <JoeBrain> having anything for status symbol makes you a douche :)
Oct 15 22:35:15 <unix_lappy> yikes, in need of caffeine.
Oct 15 22:35:36 * snadge has a 2G phone still
Oct 15 22:35:42 <dmoffett> Except a hot girl friend or wife.  :-)
Oct 15 22:35:43 <languish> MrSnowflake, I disagree it makes people douches by default for having it as a status symbol. As some have to do so for their job. But, if they do it for themselves and their own ego.. I completely agree
Oct 15 22:35:43 <snadge> im waiting for G1 to appear in my neck of the woods
Oct 15 22:35:49 <JoeBrain> well that's not just for ... status :)
Oct 15 22:35:57 <MrSnowflake> haha
Oct 15 22:36:21 <MrSnowflake> enterainment and relaxation are very important!
Oct 15 22:36:24 <snadge> i read somewhere that apparently it will be in the UK in november.. so will I :)
Oct 15 22:36:45 <languish> seems the G1 woll be free to tmo customers in the .uk with a contract
Oct 15 22:36:49 <languish> *will
Oct 15 22:36:53 <MrSnowflake> I read today it will be released in the UK the 30th of octobre, but that'll probably be rubbish
Oct 15 22:37:06 <languish> bastards rape us for $179 + signup fee
Oct 15 22:37:24 <snadge> will there be an outright purchase price in the UK?
Oct 15 22:37:28 <MrSnowflake> Languish: We always have to pay FULL prices, because of Belgian regulation
Oct 15 22:37:36 <languish> :\
Oct 15 22:37:37 <snadge> since i will be an aussie whos on holiday in the UK.. i dont think going on a contract is an option
Oct 15 22:37:38 <JoeBrain> atleast they make nice chocolate
Oct 15 22:38:04 <MrSnowflake> snadge: You could steal some1's id
Oct 15 22:38:07 <snadge> i suppose i could sign up on a contract and then skip the country ;)
Oct 15 22:38:10 <snadge> lol yes
Oct 15 22:38:10 * unix_lappy notices that he didnt hear much complaining when the iPhone came out.
Oct 15 22:38:16 <MrSnowflake> JoeBrain: And more important Beer!
Oct 15 22:38:23 <JoeBrain> dunno I heard a lot of complaining after iPhone came out
Oct 15 22:38:25 <languish> I'm actually really pissed about the tmo $18 tax
Oct 15 22:38:33 <MrSnowflake> unix_lappy: I did
Oct 15 22:38:37 <JoeBrain> MrSnowflake: I only drink Guinness
Oct 15 22:38:39 <languish> they should have just included it in the price
Oct 15 22:38:44 <MrSnowflake> joebrain: boooh!
Oct 15 22:38:45 <MrSnowflake>  :p
Oct 15 22:38:48 <JoeBrain> lol
Oct 15 22:38:55 <languish> instead of saying the phones $179 and "oh yeah, you have to pay an extra $18 to buy it"
Oct 15 22:38:56 <JoeBrain> well Murphys et al
Oct 15 22:39:02 <MrSnowflake> JoeBrain: that's like pisswasser :)
Oct 15 22:39:13 <JoeBrain> hah! tasty piss water :)
Oct 15 22:39:19 <ttuttle> languish: That's standard procedure for upgrades.  Everyone does it.
Oct 15 22:39:24 <languish> then again, $179 for the device is cheap at launch. I'm happy with it, just not with tmo's choices
Oct 15 22:39:29 <languish> ttuttle, BS
Oct 15 22:39:35 <languish> I never paid for an upgrade with tmo
Oct 15 22:39:37 <languish> ever
Oct 15 22:39:37 <ttuttle> languish: AT&T charges $36 activation and $18 upgrade fees too.
Oct 15 22:39:46 <ttuttle> languish: Hmm.  That sucks then.
Oct 15 22:39:47 <languish> idgaf what att does
Oct 15 22:39:56 <languish> it's part of the reason I'm not on att
Oct 15 22:39:58 <languish> :D
Oct 15 22:40:17 <MrSnowflake> I'm gonna race a little before I go to bed, see you all tomorow, good night/day
Oct 15 22:40:23 <f00f-> 179 + contract? not super cheap imo.
Oct 15 22:40:25 <languish> I've been a customer of tmo, since before they were tmo here in nyc.. voicestream and omnipoint
Oct 15 22:40:26 <ttuttle> languish: Oh, I just figured if AT&T does it, maybe other carriers do.
Oct 15 22:40:40 <ttuttle> languish: Oh man, I remember them... they had the ads with the parrot, right?
Oct 15 22:40:41 <languish> f00f-, 'eh, contracts are very easy to get out of
Oct 15 22:40:45 <JoeBrain> Android on TMo, iPhone on ATT Blackberry on Verizon .... Sprint is getting molested.
Oct 15 22:40:47 <languish> hah yeah
Oct 15 22:41:03 <languish> Sprint can die in a fire
Oct 15 22:41:10 <JoeBrain> yeah I switched from Sprint
Oct 15 22:41:26 <languish> I had gotten sprint for an old g/f some years back
Oct 15 22:41:33 <languish> holy crap what headaches
Oct 15 22:41:37 <languish> sprint, not the g/f
Oct 15 22:41:44 <JoeBrain> lol but is that why you guys broke up?
Oct 15 22:41:52 <languish> hahaha nah
Oct 15 22:42:05 <languish> saying why would be rude, crude and inappropriate in here most likely
Oct 15 22:42:13 <languish> :D
Oct 15 22:42:20 <JoeBrain> I thought that's what IRC was for, but yeah
Oct 15 22:42:40 <JoeBrain> I'm sure this place will get tons of noise post-launch
Oct 15 22:42:55 <languish> seems pretty decent as it is
Oct 15 22:43:02 <JoeBrain> yeah calm before the storm
Oct 15 22:43:06 <languish> nod
Oct 15 22:43:27 <JoeBrain> I guess Sprint backed the wrong horse (Moto) ? :)
Oct 15 22:44:02 <fadden> Sprint is an OHA member.
Oct 15 22:44:40 <languish> OHA's loss :/
Oct 15 22:44:42 <ttuttle> fadden: Really?!
Oct 15 22:44:44 <JoeBrain> Have they announced an Android phone yet?
Oct 15 22:44:44 <ttuttle> fadden: Wow.
Oct 15 22:44:49 <fadden> http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html
Oct 15 22:45:01 <languish> Sprint will only tarnish android
Oct 15 22:45:27 <languish> people will get their device and then have months of billing headaches
Oct 15 22:45:27 <f00f-> sprint is running with titan, last i heard
Oct 15 22:45:31 <JoeBrain> :|
Oct 15 22:45:52 <JoeBrain> not a new device? :\
Oct 15 22:46:06 <f00f-> new devices all the time
Oct 15 22:46:16 <ttuttle> Hey, has anyone here written an app with barcode scanning?
Oct 15 22:46:18 <f00f-> just they're pushing titan instead of anything else
Oct 15 22:46:25 <JoeBrain> yea
Oct 15 22:46:26 <romainguy___> ttuttle: there's a video that shows you can do it
Oct 15 22:46:29 <JoeBrain> odd
Oct 15 22:46:41 <ttuttle> romainguy___: Shows the app, or the code to scan barcodes?
Oct 15 22:46:48 <ttuttle> romainguy___: (I thought of an Android app that I think nobody else has yet ;-)
Oct 15 22:46:49 <romainguy___> the former
Oct 15 22:47:07 <ttuttle> romainguy___: Oh.  Well I know that works, I've done it ;-)
Oct 15 22:47:19 <romainguy___> then why are you asking? :)
Oct 15 22:47:32 <ttuttle> romainguy___: I want to write an app that scans barcodes.
Oct 15 22:47:40 <JoeBrain> lol
Oct 15 22:47:47 <romainguy___> you just said you've done it...
Oct 15 22:47:49 <JoeBrain> I think the convo ate its own tail
Oct 15 22:47:51 <gdsx> ttuttle: http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ might help
Oct 15 22:47:55 <ttuttle> gdsx: yeah
Oct 15 22:48:00 <ttuttle> romainguy___: Sorry, I was unclear.
Oct 15 22:48:02 <romainguy___> anyway, here is how to invoke the Intent:
Oct 15 22:48:03 <romainguy___>     private void startScan(int code) {
Oct 15 22:48:03 <romainguy___>         try {
Oct 15 22:48:03 <romainguy___>             final Intent intent = new Intent(INTENT_ACTION_SCAN);
Oct 15 22:48:04 <romainguy___>             intent.putExtra(INTENT_EXTRA_SCAN_MODE, INTENT_EXTRA_PRODUCT_MODE);
Oct 15 22:48:04 <romainguy___>             startActivityForResult(intent, code);
Oct 15 22:48:05 <romainguy___>         } catch (ActivityNotFoundException e) {
Oct 15 22:48:07 <romainguy___>             showToast(R.string.error_missing_barcode_scanner, true);
Oct 15 22:48:08 <ttuttle> romainguy___: I've seen the standalone barcode scanner.
Oct 15 22:48:09 <romainguy___>         }
Oct 15 22:48:11 <romainguy___>     }
Oct 15 22:48:13 <ttuttle> romainguy___: Oh, wow.  Thanks!
Oct 15 22:48:13 <romainguy___> with:
Oct 15 22:48:15 <romainguy___>     private static final String INTENT_ACTION_SCAN = "com.android.barcodes.SCAN";
Oct 15 22:48:17 <romainguy___>     private static final String INTENT_EXTRA_SCAN_MODE = "SCAN_MODE";
Oct 15 22:48:19 <romainguy___>     private static final String INTENT_EXTRA_PRODUCT_MODE = "PRODUCT_MODE";
Oct 15 22:48:36 <romainguy___> and the result is in the extra called SCAN_RESULT
Oct 15 22:48:37 <jasta> wow
Oct 15 22:48:41 <jasta> what is all this?
Oct 15 22:48:49 <ttuttle> jasta: Barcode scanning.
Oct 15 22:49:01 <JoeBrain> IRC is scanning for barcodes
Oct 15 22:49:17 <ttuttle> | | ||| || || |||  || || | | |  || || || || || |
Oct 15 22:49:22 <jasta> romainguy___: hey, i did file an issue about SimpleCursorAdapter and SimpleAdapter using the ViewHolder pattern...
Oct 15 22:49:26 <cbeust__> ttuttle:  that's rude
Oct 15 22:49:27 <romainguy___> jasta: ah
Oct 15 22:49:35 <ttuttle> cbeust__: What?
Oct 15 22:49:40 <jasta> i think it's a pretty straight forward thing that really should be implemented there.  do you agree?
Oct 15 22:49:49 <romainguy___> sure
Oct 15 22:50:00 <jasta> it just adds an array... :)
Oct 15 22:53:26 * ttuttle begins coding his Android app.
Oct 15 22:56:15 <VickiWong> romainguy: are you based in the US?
Oct 15 22:57:15 <jasta> whats your app?
Oct 15 22:57:17 <cbeust__> He is
Oct 15 22:57:34 <VickiWong> anyone know if they do an Android work at Google's London offices? I have a kid (not my kid) who wants to do an intern placement working on Android but he is UK based
Oct 15 22:57:50 <cbeust__> I believe we answered this question earlier
Oct 15 22:57:50 <VickiWong> I only seem to see the US offices being mentioned
Oct 15 22:57:53 <ttuttle> VickiWong: I don't know of anyone doing Android stuff there, personally.
Oct 15 22:58:07 <cbeust__> No, there is no Android work in London
Oct 15 22:58:18 <VickiWong> cbeust__ : nope, someone earlier said they think a lot of work is done in MV :)
Oct 15 22:58:32 <VickiWong> cbeust__ : ahh ok thanks :)
Oct 15 22:58:40 <VickiWong> ttuttle: thanks anyway :)
Oct 15 22:58:42 <ttuttle> VickiWong: So, if you look at the total number of people in MV versus other places, it's not surprising.
Oct 15 22:59:07 <ttuttle> VickiWong: /me puts in a good word for the Cambridge, MA office.  It's small enough that you can get to know many of the people, and Cambridge (and Boston) is a nice place.
Oct 15 22:59:09 <languish> VickiWong, send the kid to japan.
Oct 15 22:59:10 <VickiWong> ttuttle: yeah, just I head that Google had a reasonable sized mobile team in London
Oct 15 22:59:31 <ttuttle> VickiWong: Honestly, if you're interning for Google, Mountain View is where a ton of the action is.
Oct 15 22:59:32 <VickiWong> ttuttle: it's also a US place :D
Oct 15 22:59:43 <VickiWong> languish: lol he wishes :D
Oct 15 22:59:45 <ttuttle> VickiWong: True.
Oct 15 22:59:48 <languish> :D
Oct 15 23:00:36 <VickiWong> although Los Gatos is not too far from MV right?
Oct 15 23:00:58 <cbeust__> Yup
Oct 15 23:01:05 <VickiWong> Los Gatos is his only 'in' into doing a work placement in the US
Oct 15 23:01:36 <VickiWong> dunno wether he'd have a shot at a student placement in MV though, competition must be fierce :D
Oct 15 23:02:26 * VickiWong mumbes something about stupid UK degree courses requiring industry placements...
Oct 15 23:02:29 <VickiWong> mumbles*
Oct 15 23:02:49 <cbeust__> Not a bad requirement...
Oct 15 23:03:44 <VickiWong> he's finding it a pain to find a decent company thats taking paid student placements, especially programming related
Oct 15 23:03:54 <VickiWong> may just be the bad employment situation in the UK at moment
Oct 15 23:04:43 <languish> One thing I'm going to love about the G1..
Oct 15 23:05:07 <languish> My wife's getting one too. Which means, when she goes someplace I want something from, I can pre-set an alert for her based on location
Oct 15 23:05:13 <languish> and I don't have to remind her myself
Oct 15 23:05:15 <languish> :D
Oct 15 23:08:12 <schmylan_> Is there a key combo that snaps a screenshot of the current screen?
Oct 15 23:09:30 <MrSnowflake> ctrl-printscreen? :p
Oct 15 23:09:54 <schmylan_> ha, would be funny if true!
Oct 15 23:10:24 <BBHoss> what do i need to do to make a mapview scrollable by touch?
Oct 15 23:20:19 <plusminus_> BBHoss: maybe: android:clickable="true"
Oct 15 23:20:37 <BBHoss> plusminus_: is there no way to do it in code?
Oct 15 23:20:48 <plusminus_> setClickable(true)
Oct 15 23:20:51 <plusminus_> :)
Oct 15 23:21:03 <BBHoss> myMapView.setClickable(true);
Oct 15 23:26:50 <BBHoss> plusminus_: thanks, works like a charm, i'll be moving to a xml-based layout soon, i was just following your tutorial on the forums :)
Oct 15 23:50:02 <jasta> alright, heading home
Oct 15 23:51:26 <plusminus_> BBHoss: you're welcome
Oct 16 00:20:40 <SanMehat> ls
Oct 16 00:20:42 <SanMehat> shit
Oct 16 00:21:01 <zhobbs> wrong window? :)
Oct 16 00:21:12 <SanMehat> yesh :)
Oct 16 00:23:46 <ttuttle> SanMehat: how's it going?
Oct 16 00:29:17 <SanMehat> good
Oct 16 00:33:08 <ttuttle> SanMehat: cool
Oct 16 00:34:38 * ttuttle is running around campus searching for his G1's USB cable.
Oct 16 00:36:26 <JoeBrain> not proprietary cable right?
Oct 16 00:37:18 <ttuttle> the usb cable does not work with other miniusb devices, but the phone takes a miniusb cable.
Oct 16 00:37:39 <JoeBrain> how about other miniusb cables?
Oct 16 00:38:05 <romainguy___> any miniusb cable works fine with the G1
Oct 16 00:38:15 <wastrel> my bonus came in <3
Oct 16 00:38:15 <ttuttle> JoeBrain: yeah, theplug accepts miniusb or htc's proprietary cable.
Oct 16 00:38:19 <wastrel> i'm gonna get a goooooooooooooooglephone
Oct 16 00:38:21 <romainguy___> I use a Logitech car charger
Oct 16 00:38:26 <romainguy___> and a Motorola wall charger :)
Oct 16 00:38:46 <ttuttle> lol
Oct 16 00:39:00 <JoeBrain> I thought moto had proprietary cables for charging their damn phones
Oct 16 00:39:02 <ttuttle> ^ not me typing
Oct 16 00:39:17 <Lazyworm> hey, any one can tell me how to select text in android? i know i can long click and select all, but how to select one word?
Oct 16 00:39:44 <romainguy___> shift-arrows
Oct 16 00:40:20 <Lazyworm> :O, can't do that without keybord?
Oct 16 00:40:36 <ttuttle> romainguy___: oh, is there a keyboard shortcut for cut/copy/paste?
Oct 16 00:40:50 <romainguy___> alt-c/v/x
Oct 16 00:40:51 <ttuttle> Lazyworm: um, that is keyboard.
Oct 16 00:41:09 <ttuttle> romainguy___: really? that didn't seem to work.
Oct 16 00:42:27 <wastrel> moto's latest use usb
Oct 16 00:42:32 <wastrel> at least my wife's does
Oct 16 00:52:25 <wastrel> hi
Oct 16 01:55:13 <kslater> does anyone know how to insert a ctrl key on the G1?
Oct 16 01:55:33 <jasta> why do you need this?
Oct 16 01:55:38 <kslater> as in ctrl-z to background a process
Oct 16 01:55:45 <jasta> try again
Oct 16 01:55:48 <gdsx> kslater: get a knife and a soldering iron
Oct 16 01:55:50 <kslater> ssh terminal client
Oct 16 01:56:07 <jasta> kslater: there isn't a way with that keyboard.  your approach is wrong.
Oct 16 01:56:07 <kslater> sorta one of those keys you end up using a good bit
Oct 16 01:56:21 <jasta> lol
Oct 16 01:56:25 <jasta> have you used a cell phone before?
Oct 16 01:56:26 <gdsx> kslater: this device isn't really intended to be a terminal
Oct 16 01:56:42 <kslater> doesn't matter what it's intended to be
Oct 16 01:56:57 <jasta> yes it most certainly does
Oct 16 01:57:00 <kslater> ConnectBot - there's already an ssh client
Oct 16 01:57:10 <jasta> if you want to _send_ a ctrl key, just do so.  implement it in a menu or whatever.
Oct 16 01:57:16 <kslater> I'm just trying to see if there's a way to get the most out of it.
Oct 16 01:57:17 <ttuttle> Or use the search key.
Oct 16 01:57:28 <jasta> yeah, that's pretty clever
Oct 16 01:57:28 <ttuttle> A terminal doesn't need search anyway.
Oct 16 01:57:36 <kslater> true enough
Oct 16 01:57:43 <ttuttle> and it's a decent place to put it.
Oct 16 01:58:00 <jasta> but really, i think you should still have it in a menu or somehow invoked another way
Oct 16 01:58:09 <ttuttle> jasta: Why, if you have an extra keyboard key?
Oct 16 01:58:35 <jasta> ttuttle: because that way you can have both for people who don't want to set their phone on a table to awkwardly push control sequences
Oct 16 01:58:42 <ttuttle> Um...
Oct 16 01:58:46 <kslater> and jasta to your point, it matters somewhat what the device was "intended" to be. but smart phones are a move towards a more general purpose device in your pocket
Oct 16 01:58:47 <ttuttle> Alt is right next to it.
Oct 16 01:59:00 <ttuttle> If it's awkward to use search for ctrl, then it's awkward to use Alt, period.
Oct 16 01:59:13 <ttuttle> You'd probably want it to be sticky, like Alt and Shift.
Oct 16 01:59:57 <kslater> thanks for the input guys
Oct 16 02:00:11 <jasta> ttuttle: btw, you are the only one of us who has actually used a phone, so... ;)
Oct 16 02:00:17 <ttuttle> jasta: ;-)
Oct 16 02:00:26 <ttuttle> Oh, yeah, if you're looking for advice on input or stuff, you can ask ;-)
Oct 16 02:00:53 * ttuttle <3 "ant reinstall".
Oct 16 02:01:09 * benley dislikes holding down search and hitting anything on the left half of the keyboard
Oct 16 02:01:12 <yakischloba> I've used ssh on a phone before but I certainly didn't do it thinking I was gonna be able to use ctrl, alt etc
Oct 16 02:01:41 <benley> yakischloba: terminals that provide no way of entering ctrl and alt and various punctuation are fucking maddening
Oct 16 02:01:48 <benley> the hiptop ssh client got that right at least
Oct 16 02:01:57 <yakischloba> benley: yeah, so is using ssh on a phone in general IMO ;)
Oct 16 02:01:57 <benley> the android terminal does an acceptable job as well
Oct 16 02:01:58 <jasta> so there you have it ttuttle :)
Oct 16 02:02:08 <benley> yakischloba: it doesn't have to be unusable though
Oct 16 02:02:26 <ttuttle> benley: Am I allowed to tell jasta how Dev Tools' terminal implements Ctrl?
Oct 16 02:02:28 <yakischloba> eh sure. I guess the approach I would go for is a little menu
Oct 16 02:02:37 <yakischloba> "Apply CTRL hold to next key press"
Oct 16 02:02:48 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Yeah, so why not use the Search key to do that?
Oct 16 02:02:59 <benley> ttuttle: hold down the trackball?
Oct 16 02:03:06 <ttuttle> benley: Yeah.
Oct 16 02:03:16 <benley> ttuttle: I don't see why that should be secret :-P
Oct 16 02:03:18 <ttuttle> jasta: So, the "Dev Tools" terminal uses the trackball as Ctrl.
Oct 16 02:03:27 <jasta> you don't say?
Oct 16 02:03:27 <ttuttle> benley: Well, I don't want to anger anyone.
Oct 16 02:03:31 <jasta> you're an odd fella ttuttle
Oct 16 02:03:43 <yakischloba> ttuttle: I wholeheartedly encourage any efforts to make ssh more usable on the phone. God knows I'll probably end up using it :)
Oct 16 02:04:00 <jasta> i plan to use it a lot for irc ;)
Oct 16 02:04:18 <ttuttle> jasta: Well, I don't want to get in trouble for giving out secrets.
Oct 16 02:04:27 <jasta> beyond the ones you've already given out? :)
Oct 16 02:04:30 <kslater> I plan to use it for when I'm out and have to do some admin
Oct 16 02:04:30 <ttuttle> jasta: And some people's definitions of secrets includes things I wouldn't consider secret, so I figure it's best to check.
Oct 16 02:04:34 <ttuttle> jasta: Yeah.
Oct 16 02:04:43 <ttuttle> Oh, and that G1's are secretly robots that will unite to take over the world.
Oct 16 02:04:47 <benley> if I ever finish my irc thingie for android it may actually be nicer than using ssh
Oct 16 02:04:54 <ttuttle> benley: I'd hope so :-P
Oct 16 02:05:20 <jasta> benley: i wouldn't use a direct ssh client.  i don't like the idea of having lots of different nicks online.  i guess i could use a bounce...
Oct 16 02:05:24 <jasta> but i'd rather just use ssh ;P
Oct 16 02:05:36 <jasta> err direct irc client
Oct 16 02:05:46 <ttuttle> jasta: Yeah, I want a good ssh client too.
Oct 16 02:05:51 * ttuttle nmaps his phone.
Oct 16 02:06:44 <yakischloba> yeah so whats up with my secret info being sent to Google and receiving shady automatic updates? I haven't heard any talk about that recently
Oct 16 02:06:46 <benley> ttuttle: I guess someone sent you a g1 at some point?
Oct 16 02:06:53 <ttuttle> benley: Yeah, San did last Friday.
Oct 16 02:06:57 <benley> cool.
Oct 16 02:07:00 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Um, like most products it receives software updates.
Oct 16 02:07:11 <jasta> back to hacking
Oct 16 02:07:13 <yakischloba> ttuttle: Do I have an opportunity to opt-out?
Oct 16 02:07:15 <ttuttle> yakischloba: To the best of my knowledge it does not send your secret info back to Google.
Oct 16 02:07:18 <ttuttle> yakischloba: I do not know.
Oct 16 02:07:29 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Well, I have been prompted in the past with a choice.
Oct 16 02:08:02 <benley> yakischloba: you can click no to the OTA updates from what I've seen so far
Oct 16 02:08:10 <benley> yakischloba: just like on every other mobile device I've used
Oct 16 02:08:27 <yakischloba> ttuttle: Hmm. I took a peek into an older SDK a long time ago and found that it was sending in crash reports (I believe without my knowledge)
Oct 16 02:08:33 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Hrm.
Oct 16 02:08:50 <ttuttle> yakischloba: So, I wouldn't be surprised (or offended) if it sends back crash reports for Google apps.
Oct 16 02:08:51 <yakischloba> ttuttle: which included IMEI and a few other things IIRC
Oct 16 02:08:56 <ttuttle> yakischloba: They are, I am sure, properly anonymized.
Oct 16 02:09:00 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Oh, IMEI? :-(
Oct 16 02:09:24 <benley> that's valid cause for concern but I'm not sure the older SDKs are reflective of what actually ships :-P
Oct 16 02:09:32 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Try the current SDK.
Oct 16 02:09:49 <yakischloba> ttuttle: I don't _actually_ care. I'm not important enough for anyone to be bothering with my private information, just was a curious finding ;)
Oct 16 02:10:08 <yakischloba> benley: yeah, I haven't looked at anything recent
Oct 16 02:10:10 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Yeah, but there's a whole pile of people itching to say Google's trying to steal their secrets.
Oct 16 02:10:36 <yakischloba> yeah I know. I think it will be unfortunate it someone finds that this crash reporter is still in place and makes a big deal out of it
Oct 16 02:10:48 <yakischloba> I could give a shit, but someone will be sensational about it
Oct 16 02:11:05 * benley turns off the goddamn debate
Oct 16 02:12:22 <ttuttle> yakischloba++
Oct 16 02:13:03 <benley> what data does the crash reporter send?
Oct 16 02:13:20 <yakischloba> I really can't imagine people who's private business is so important that it would be catastrophic if they were revealed, but happen to be using gmail or google calendar
Oct 16 02:13:38 <ttuttle> romainguy___: Hey, the barcode scanning is working.  And the 1.0 SDK works great!
Oct 16 02:13:41 <ttuttle> romainguy___: Thanks for the help!
Oct 16 02:13:56 <yakischloba> Anyone who really needs to keep things secret will use a proper system that is suited to their needs
Oct 16 02:13:56 * ttuttle embarks on the glorious journey to becoming a real Android app developer.
Oct 16 02:14:06 <yakischloba> for the rest of us, theres Google
Oct 16 02:14:51 <benley> yakischloba: oh, like paris hilton?
Oct 16 02:15:04 <yakischloba> benley: :)
Oct 16 02:15:26 <benley> (I'm sure you remember the OMG LOL PARIS HILTON SIDECAK HAXORD story)
Oct 16 02:15:37 <yakischloba> yeah
Oct 16 02:15:50 <ttuttle> benley: Ooh, can we add a feature for that?
Oct 16 02:16:28 <benley> ttuttle: if (user == "Paris Fucking Hilton") { self.security.disable(); };
Oct 16 02:16:46 <ttuttle> benley: Yep!
Oct 16 02:16:59 <yakischloba> someone save me from perl pls :(
Oct 16 02:17:13 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Oh, what's the problem?
Oct 16 02:17:15 <benley> yakischloba: here, have a Python book.  *thunk*
Oct 16 02:17:16 <ttuttle> yakischloba: I don't mind Perl.
Oct 16 02:17:18 <yakischloba> heh
Oct 16 02:17:28 <yakischloba> "Here, write this that does that. It must be written in Perl, sorry."
Oct 16 02:17:37 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Oh, what's it for?
Oct 16 02:17:45 <benley> system("python2.4 do-stuff.py")
Oct 16 02:18:08 <yakischloba> ttuttle: oh, just a bunch of systems monitoring junk for internal servers.
Oct 16 02:18:31 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Ah.
Oct 16 02:18:42 <yakischloba> ttuttle: checking RAID, making sure certain services are not consuming more resources than they should. god awfully boring business.
Oct 16 02:18:50 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Meh.  Nice to have though.
Oct 16 02:19:00 <yakischloba> Someone has got to do it, I suppose :/
Oct 16 02:19:51 <yakischloba> I don't think I'll ever like Perl though. So whacky imo
Oct 16 02:20:06 <benley> yakischloba: heh, that's basically what my primary project is
Oct 16 02:20:19 <benley> "monitoring stuff"
Oct 16 02:20:23 <benley> only I don't have to do it in perl :)
Oct 16 02:20:24 <yakischloba> haha
Oct 16 02:20:27 <yakischloba> must be nice
Oct 16 02:20:48 <yakischloba> "Sorry dude, we can't install Ruby on every server."
Oct 16 02:20:59 <ttuttle> yakischloba: Python, at least?
Oct 16 02:21:17 <yakischloba> I remember taking a quick look at Perl about 5 years ago and deciding I wanted nothing to do with it
Oct 16 02:21:57 <yakischloba> ttuttle: They want it to be maintainable by others in the future. Evidently Perl is the be-all-end-all of systems administration languages and must be used as the standard.
Oct 16 02:22:02 <ttuttle> Ah.
Oct 16 02:22:37 <benley> I am glad that someone at google decided to use python for that back in the day instead of perl
Oct 16 02:22:53 <yakischloba> I guess the one upside is that I find it so clumsy, I am forced to write more simple and clear code.
Oct 16 02:23:13 <yakischloba> else I forget what the hell I'm doing when I look back up the page
Oct 16 02:24:13 * benley detaches
Oct 16 02:24:17 <yakischloba> same
Oct 16 02:24:19 <yakischloba> back to perl misery
Oct 16 02:24:24 <ttuttle> What's the right way to do HTTP requests?
Oct 16 02:24:31 <ttuttle> org.apache.http.client.impl.DefaultHttpClient?
Oct 16 02:49:26 <jasta> ttuttle: yes, httpclient 4.x.
Oct 16 02:49:40 <jasta> i have constructed a pretty good example of this usage, actually... hang on
Oct 16 02:51:28 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/android-random/source/browse/#svn/trunk/CancelHttpGet/src/org/devtcg/demo/cancelhttpget
Oct 16 02:51:35 <jasta> this shows how you can properly stop the download thread as well
Oct 16 02:51:57 <jasta> there's an example in android-apps that has a gaping bug in its attempt to do so.
Oct 16 02:52:03 <jasta> so i dont recommend you look at that
Oct 16 02:52:27 <jasta> you also could implement my example a bit simpler but i just wanted to be very explicit as to whats going on
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 16 02:59:58 2008