**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 16 02:59:58 2008
Oct 16 03:06:31 <ttuttle> jasta: I've got it.
Oct 16 03:06:41 <wastrel> is there a way to ensure i can get a phone on the 22nd
Oct 16 03:06:49 <ttuttle> wastrel: Build a time machine and pre-order one.
Oct 16 03:06:59 <ttuttle> wastrel: Alternatively, find and camp out at your local T-Mobile store.
Oct 16 03:06:59 <wastrel> i'm not a current tmob. custy
Oct 16 03:07:10 <wastrel> i could go back further in time and become one i suppose
Oct 16 03:07:18 <wastrel> or i could just go forward in time, buy one and come back.
Oct 16 03:07:33 <wastrel> really i could skip the g1 if i had a time machine
Oct 16 03:08:52 <ttuttle> wastrel: You could go forward and bring back a device with Android 2.0 and tell us about it!
Oct 16 03:12:40 <wastrel> you really think it'll be necessary to camp the t-mob store?
Oct 16 03:16:14 * jasta grooves
Oct 16 03:16:51 <jasta> o/~ i hope, the weather holds / but you don't need the sun to make you shine / these island towns don't care for city folk / but i think we can starve the city from our minds o/~
Oct 16 03:17:05 <jasta> i'm in a really great mood tonight :)
Oct 16 03:18:01 <yakischloba> must be drunk, that is too lighthearted of you ;)
Oct 16 03:18:21 <jasta> nah, just feelin good
Oct 16 03:18:26 <jasta> coding up playlist support in Five :)
Oct 16 03:18:32 <jasta> listening to Minus The Bear, of course
Oct 16 03:18:38 <jasta> that always puts me in a good mood
Oct 16 03:19:00 <yakischloba> i over-listened them wayyy too far
Oct 16 03:19:09 <jasta> impossible
Oct 16 03:19:33 <yakischloba> then I mustn't have truly loved em
Oct 16 03:20:20 <jasta> o/~ and so i'm swimming, more like floating / and i'll just stay out here, until the night comes crashing down o/~
Oct 16 03:20:24 <jasta> ok, i'll stop
Oct 16 03:20:25 <jasta> ;)
Oct 16 03:20:54 <jasta> that is from my favorite minus the bear song tho.  "I'm Totally Not Down with Rob's Alien"
Oct 16 03:21:02 <yakischloba> "o/~" jasta's emo cave marking
Oct 16 03:21:11 <wastrel> monkey!!! knife!!! fight!!!
Oct 16 03:21:12 <jasta> it's a music note
Oct 16 03:21:22 <yakischloba> heh yes I understood that ;)
Oct 16 03:21:41 <jasta> if you think Minus The Bear is emo you're a freaking retard btw ;)
Oct 16 03:22:13 <dmoffett> jasta: did you finally get laid?
Oct 16 03:22:25 <dmoffett> I remember my first time.  :-)
Oct 16 03:22:33 <yakischloba> oo haterade
Oct 16 03:22:38 <jasta> yeah, that's not cool dude
Oct 16 03:23:26 <yakischloba> i mean he is only like 26 or whatever after all, its not that late ;)
Oct 16 03:24:03 <jasta> this might be a good time to mention that i will almost certainly get drunk and play minus the bear at the halloween party, yakischloba  :)
Oct 16 03:24:04 <dmoffett> Just never seen him so happy that is all.  Something must be up.
Oct 16 03:24:20 <dmoffett> Can't believe it is all over just a phone and a song.  :-)
Oct 16 03:24:22 <jasta> dmoffett: maybe i just don't like you guys?  hehe, ever think about that? :)
Oct 16 03:24:37 <yakischloba> jasta: haha I'll rock out with ya. just because I over-listened doesn't mean I can't enjoy a song every now and again
Oct 16 03:24:53 <jasta> my roommate thinks it's just noise hehe
Oct 16 03:25:15 <dmoffett> jasta: I think you thrive on conflict.  :-)
Oct 16 03:25:49 <jasta> i'm complex
Oct 16 03:25:49 <jasta> lol
Oct 16 03:26:10 <thinair> jasta: the example with the gapping bug is not the panoramio app. Because I have try something similar and I have some problem with the heap... after some 2-3 images load... out of memory..
Oct 16 03:26:35 <jasta> thinair: the gaping bug i was referring to was with regard to the way they cancel the download
Oct 16 03:26:39 <jasta> i hadn't looked at any other part of it
Oct 16 03:27:17 <jasta> the author of the download example believes that interrupt() somehow breaks a thread out of a wait on I/O.  this is false.
Oct 16 03:27:40 <jasta> in fact, interrupt in that context does absolutely nothing at all except set the interrupted flag to eventually be looked at (which they don't ever do)
Oct 16 03:27:47 <jasta> it's completely misleading and wrong
Oct 16 03:28:18 <jasta> the proper approach is to close the socket that you're waiting on from another thread.  this will break the waiting thread out.
Oct 16 03:28:30 <jasta> HttpClient does this with HttpMethodBase#abort()
Oct 16 03:30:00 <thinair> I was just believing perhaps the last thread which download the picture from panoramia was not finished and continue to use memory... (I have not the code in front of me.. now)... and the next one which download a picture would have the same problem.. and so on.. until out of memory..
Oct 16 03:30:26 <jasta> well, it'd take much more than a leaked thread to use up that much memory
Oct 16 03:30:31 <jasta> you'd need to be leaking something big, like the picture itself
Oct 16 03:30:35 <thinair> I believe  then, my problem is more related to dalvik and gc for Bitmap... I will continue to make some tests...
Oct 16 03:31:17 <romainguy> thinair: when does your out of memory error occur?
Oct 16 03:34:03 <thinair> I must look again at the code... I just see that before leaving ...
Oct 16 03:34:32 <romainguy> thinair: I mean, how does it occur when you use the app?
Oct 16 03:35:31 <thinair> with my app I am downloading some pictures from panoramio... but the size medium... to show them full screen in the device...
Oct 16 03:35:46 <thinair> I change the background image every time with an other picture.. (in my view)
Oct 16 03:35:56 <thinair> after some pictures... I occur...
Oct 16 03:36:32 <romainguy> ok the first thing you should do is look at the heap size in DDMS
Oct 16 03:36:43 <romainguy> and force GCs both on your process and the system process from time to time
Oct 16 03:36:59 <romainguy> if the heap content size does not go down, you have a nice leak
Oct 16 03:37:00 <thinair> I was playing with the heap size in DDMS.. and it increase all the time from picture to picture
Oct 16 03:37:12 <romainguy> thinair: try to force GCs too
Oct 16 03:37:15 <romainguy> DDMS lets you do this
Oct 16 03:37:19 <thinair> every time I make a Bitmap b =... I have pub a System.gc() before..
Oct 16 03:37:31 <romainguy> you should not do that
Oct 16 03:37:36 <romainguy> and that won't help in your case
Oct 16 03:37:44 <romainguy> do what I just said, try to GC your process *and* the system process
Oct 16 03:37:56 <thinair> ok... it was a try.. so GC directly in DDMS ? right..
Oct 16 03:38:00 <romainguy> yes
Oct 16 03:38:03 <romainguy> GC your process
Oct 16 03:38:04 <romainguy> then GC system
Oct 16 03:38:07 <romainguy> then GC your process again
Oct 16 03:38:26 <romainguy> (the system process holds onto native references that in turn can hold onto Java objects in your process)
Oct 16 03:38:38 <thinair> ok.. its possible to make a GC process only.. it's the option in DDMS ?
Oct 16 03:38:53 <romainguy> just click on the process in DDMS
Oct 16 03:38:59 <thinair> ok..
Oct 16 03:38:59 <romainguy> then hit the garbage can button
Oct 16 03:39:27 <gdsx> romainguy: you know what they say...
Oct 16 03:39:37 <romainguy> gdsx: actually I don't
Oct 16 03:39:41 <gdsx> "If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution"
Oct 16 03:40:02 <romainguy> good thing we're not Java then
Oct 16 03:40:19 <gdsx> romainguy: I'll let danfuzz know he needs to implement that feature
Oct 16 03:43:07 <thinair> danfuzz is responsible for the dalvik part ?
Oct 16 03:46:33 <thinair> ok I will try tomorrow... thanks ! I let you know then what was the problem...bye
Oct 16 03:49:01 * muthu_ eating upma.. yummy
Oct 16 03:50:52 <muthu_> man booker for aravind adiga
Oct 16 03:51:25 <illusion> hi muthu_
Oct 16 03:51:58 <muthu_> hi illusion
Oct 16 03:52:31 * plusminus_ reduced rendertime of AndNav2 to a tenth :)
Oct 16 03:53:11 <muthu_> plusminus_: impressive
Oct 16 03:53:23 * plusminus_ now faster than AndNav1 with GMaps in the bg
Oct 16 03:53:53 <muthu_> plusminus_: have you put Andnav1 in slideme or andappstore?
Oct 16 03:54:13 <plusminus_> not yet
Oct 16 03:54:26 <muthu_> when you put?
Oct 16 03:54:28 <plusminus_> is it seems not to work on the G1
Oct 16 03:54:30 <plusminus_> as
Oct 16 03:54:36 <muthu_> oh ok
Oct 16 03:54:37 <plusminus_> erm when I can debug it :'(
Oct 16 03:54:58 <muthu_> you are not planning for 22?
Oct 16 03:55:10 <plusminus_> I decided not to put any sensor-relating app on there before having tested it
Oct 16 03:55:14 <plusminus_> yeah it sucks hard :(
Oct 16 03:55:18 <muthu_> ok
Oct 16 03:55:27 <muthu_> i know you have a lotta games ;)
Oct 16 03:55:31 <plusminus_> I have some games
Oct 16 03:55:34 <plusminus_> exactly
Oct 16 03:55:34 <muthu_> how many launching?
Oct 16 03:55:41 <plusminus_> 2 definitely
Oct 16 03:55:48 <muthu_> wonderful
Oct 16 03:55:53 <muthu_> man you are doing it right
Oct 16 03:56:13 <muthu_> you'll be one of the success stories of android
Oct 16 03:56:22 <muthu_> which you already are with anddev :)
Oct 16 03:56:49 <plusminus_> I have 3 other small apps, that I'm not yet sure of if I'll put them on for free
Oct 16 03:56:58 <plusminus_> or for like 50Cent
Oct 16 03:57:06 <plusminus_> is slideme up already ?
Oct 16 03:57:06 <muthu_> 99C
Oct 16 03:57:13 <muthu_> haven't tried
Oct 16 03:57:19 <muthu_> andappstore seems to be ready
Oct 16 03:57:54 <illusion> do we need to buy to put our app there? like apple does
Oct 16 03:58:09 <illusion> buy some license or sth
Oct 16 03:58:12 <muthu_> no, anyone can upload
Oct 16 03:58:20 <plusminus_> lol someone put and oooooold version of AndNav on andappstore, which will painfully crash because it is not even for sdk 1.0
Oct 16 03:58:30 <muthu_> someone?
Oct 16 03:58:36 <plusminus_> dunno
Oct 16 03:58:47 <muthu_> hmm
Oct 16 03:59:11 <illusion> cool i havent known bout that :) is it called andappstore?
Oct 16 03:59:34 <umdk1d3> the question is how many people will install those secondary app stores
Oct 16 03:59:38 <muthu_> andappstore.com, slideme.org
Oct 16 03:59:53 <illusion> thx
Oct 16 04:00:05 <muthu_> umdk1d3:  a lotz
Oct 16 04:00:15 <muthu_> if your app is listed in many stores, better
Oct 16 04:02:27 <umdk1d3> i slightly disagree
Oct 16 04:02:43 <umdk1d3> think about the audience of those 1.5m phones sold
Oct 16 04:03:00 <muthu_> ok, the market is bundled
Oct 16 04:03:05 <umdk1d3> most of them are joe-sixpack, and prolly wont even realize there are other stores
Oct 16 04:03:05 <muthu_> so it has a big advantage
Oct 16 04:03:21 <muthu_> but people will slowly get the hang of it
Oct 16 04:03:28 <muthu_> and looks for other interesting apps
Oct 16 04:03:31 <muthu_> its all about choices
Oct 16 04:04:04 <illusion> is that appstore basicly based on the google phone ? or we should download it every desktop than install it to the phone?
Oct 16 04:04:38 <plusminus_> what category is 'Pipes' ? Is it a puzzle :/
Oct 16 04:04:52 <umdk1d3> muthu_: true, choice is good
Oct 16 04:05:08 <muthu_> illusion: andappstore is a website you visit in your browser
Oct 16 04:05:14 <muthu_> then download the apk and install
Oct 16 04:05:17 <illusion> yea im on it.
Oct 16 04:05:26 <illusion> oh gotcha
Oct 16 04:05:29 <muthu_> it will not work now.. on emulator
Oct 16 04:05:34 <muthu_> you need G1 :(
Oct 16 04:05:36 <illusion> oh thats sad.
Oct 16 04:05:40 <illusion> :(
Oct 16 04:05:47 <muthu_> pretty sad
Oct 16 04:05:50 <illusion> i cant buy so cant test it too..
Oct 16 04:05:53 <illusion> can u
Oct 16 04:05:54 <illusion> ?
Oct 16 04:06:09 <muthu_> market works only with G1
Oct 16 04:06:11 <illusion> will be release in india?
Oct 16 04:06:20 <muthu_> it'll be in dec/jan
Oct 16 04:06:30 <illusion> thats nice.
Oct 16 04:06:34 <muthu_> i'll ask someone to bring from us
Oct 16 04:06:40 <muthu_> once unlocked phones are available
Oct 16 04:06:40 <illusion> we don have anyyyyyyyyyyy plan for that
Oct 16 04:07:09 <illusion> as  u know korea.. even we unlock it, cant use.
Oct 16 04:07:30 <muthu_> why?
Oct 16 04:07:34 <muthu_> you don't have gsm?
Oct 16 04:07:42 <illusion> we have sdma
Oct 16 04:07:44 <illusion> cdma
Oct 16 04:07:47 <muthu_> hmmm
Oct 16 04:07:49 <illusion> but
Oct 16 04:07:56 <illusion> thats different issue
Oct 16 04:08:26 <muthu_> i start the emu.. went back to it after 10 min.. it crashed
Oct 16 04:08:33 <ttuttle> muthu_: lol
Oct 16 04:08:55 <muthu_> guess, its protesting
Oct 16 04:09:24 <unix_infidel> muthu_: different providers have different 3g freqs in india right?
Oct 16 04:09:36 <illusion> korean telecom company locked every single phone... even we cant change our cell phone to other korean company from that i made contract now.
Oct 16 04:09:48 <muthu_> unix_infidel: there's not 3g now
Oct 16 04:09:58 <muthu_> expected to be rolled out dec/jan
Oct 16 04:10:33 <illusion> wer sharing 2g/3g now
Oct 16 04:10:44 <illusion> changing it from 2g to 3g
Oct 16 04:10:45 <muthu_> iphone 3g works on 2g for now
Oct 16 04:11:00 <illusion> i know but we dont even have sim card for 2g
Oct 16 04:11:11 <muthu_> right, you need gsm
Oct 16 04:11:16 <illusion> its kinda built-in cell phone
Oct 16 04:12:00 <illusion> every information in cell phone and cant transfer to ohter cell phone..
Oct 16 04:12:10 <illusion> its really closed market in korea.
Oct 16 04:12:36 <illusion> it sucks!!
Oct 16 04:13:02 <muthu_> closed market sux
Oct 16 04:13:51 * ttuttle <3 Android.
Oct 16 04:14:13 <muthu_> ttuttle: you working on any apps?
Oct 16 04:14:14 <ttuttle> I nearly forgot how much fun it is to code when a simple "ant reinstall" updates your app on the phone, and you can watch logs in realtime.
Oct 16 04:14:19 <ttuttle> muthu_: Yeah, I've got a couple ideas.
Oct 16 04:14:25 <ttuttle> muthu_: Just playing around mostly.
Oct 16 04:14:29 <muthu_> ok
Oct 16 04:15:41 <illusion> muthu_: so what ru doing with android?
Oct 16 04:15:54 <muthu_> http://mobeegal.in
Oct 16 04:15:59 <muthu_> big plans
Oct 16 04:16:38 <illusion> ru planning for android challenge?
Oct 16 04:16:44 <illusion> will be second
Oct 16 04:17:29 <ttuttle> Ooh, I should try for that ;-)
Oct 16 04:17:37 <ttuttle> Maybe I can get some more dreams and or a large pile of money ;-)
Oct 16 04:17:48 <muthu_> yeah challenge 2
Oct 16 04:18:12 <muthu_> who can resist 250k?
Oct 16 04:18:14 <illusion> thats awesome
Oct 16 04:18:24 * ttuttle would like 250k
Oct 16 04:18:35 <ttuttle> Heck, my parents would like 250k, as it would pay for college with a nice chunk left over.
Oct 16 04:18:43 <muthu_> yep
Oct 16 04:19:28 <illusion> when should it be adc2?
Oct 16 04:19:36 <muthu_> 2009
Oct 16 04:19:38 <ttuttle> When is ADC2, and what are the other prizes?
Oct 16 04:19:47 <illusion> no more specific?
Oct 16 04:19:49 <muthu_> its along the lines of adc 1
Oct 16 04:20:01 <muthu_> another 5m on the line :)
Oct 16 04:20:06 <ttuttle> muthu_: Sweet.
Oct 16 04:20:15 <muthu_> ttuttle: can't wait :))
Oct 16 04:20:19 <dmoffett> Maybe they will do one winner takes all!  :-)
Oct 16 04:20:22 <illusion> go for it
Oct 16 04:20:28 <muthu_> dmoffett: oh no
Oct 16 04:20:33 <ttuttle> dmoffett: Nah, I hope not.
Oct 16 04:20:35 <muthu_> the chances are lim
Oct 16 04:20:37 <muthu_> slim
Oct 16 04:20:43 <dmoffett> That would make for some fierce competition.
Oct 16 04:20:43 <illusion> all or noth
Oct 16 04:20:45 <muthu_> 50, then 20 looks good
Oct 16 04:20:51 <ttuttle> dmoffett: I'd rather see a dozen developers get a good prize then one person get all of it.
Oct 16 04:21:05 <muthu_> this time i'm going for 250
Oct 16 04:21:23 <muthu_> nothing less ;)
Oct 16 04:21:52 <muthu_> guess, adc2 will ask for NEW apps
Oct 16 04:21:57 <ttuttle> muthu_: Good luck.
Oct 16 04:22:03 <dmoffett> It would be more fun to go for all the winnings.  :-)
Oct 16 04:22:04 <muthu_> ttuttle: thx, you too
Oct 16 04:22:09 <illusion> idea makes 250k
Oct 16 04:22:22 * ttuttle would be happy to beta test apps, and to let others beta test his (provided they're not working on the same sort of app).
Oct 16 04:22:41 <muthu_> ttuttle: i'll send you an apk, this weekend
Oct 16 04:22:45 <dmoffett> Of course based on past performance I would be doing the congratulating.  :-)
Oct 16 04:22:48 <muthu_> if you can test that on G1, pls
Oct 16 04:22:53 <ttuttle> muthu_: Sure.
Oct 16 04:22:58 <muthu_> ttuttle: thx
Oct 16 04:23:25 <muthu_> dmoffett: lol
Oct 16 04:23:56 * muthu_ plans to form a 5 member team for adc2
Oct 16 04:24:19 <muthu_> and then kickass with kickass app
Oct 16 04:24:38 <illusion> thats alot. i saw the adc1 winners teams. but there was maximum 4 ppl
Oct 16 04:24:56 <muthu_> look at locale.. its a 5 member team
Oct 16 04:24:59 <muthu_> look at gocart
Oct 16 04:25:03 <muthu_> look at cookingcapsules
Oct 16 04:25:06 <muthu_> look at tunewiki
Oct 16 04:25:09 <muthu_> its all big teams
Oct 16 04:25:16 <illusion> great
Oct 16 04:25:22 <ttuttle> Sure.  Programming's easier in groups.
Oct 16 04:25:26 <muthu_> yep
Oct 16 04:25:27 <ttuttle> Especially small ones.
Oct 16 04:25:42 <muthu_> i believe in collaboration
Oct 16 04:25:49 <muthu_> that's the first step to success
Oct 16 04:26:11 <illusion> muthu_: thats the hardest part too.
Oct 16 04:26:17 <muthu_> agree
Oct 16 04:26:44 <muthu_> if you are doing it alone, your chances are slim
Oct 16 04:27:01 <muthu_> a team ensures high success rate
Oct 16 04:27:14 <illusion> but someone good at this have 250k alone!!
Oct 16 04:27:29 <muthu_> there are a few
Oct 16 04:27:33 <illusion> thats the point.
Oct 16 04:27:38 <illusion> yep
Oct 16 04:27:45 <muthu_> that's pretty rare
Oct 16 04:28:03 <muthu_> adc 2 will have to bigger and bolder
Oct 16 04:28:17 <muthu_> would be tough this time
Oct 16 04:28:27 <muthu_> since its going to be all execution, not just ideas
Oct 16 04:28:54 <ttuttle> Is there a list of all ADC1 entries, so I can make sure nobody's tried and failed at my idea?
Oct 16 04:29:15 <muthu_> ttuttle: that list never came
Oct 16 04:29:24 <illusion> u can find it on the web.
Oct 16 04:29:30 <illusion> winners list
Oct 16 04:29:33 <muthu_> top 50 is there in android.com
Oct 16 04:30:13 <illusion> even same idea different intefaces and results!
Oct 16 04:31:43 <muthu_> gocart, and compare everywhere
Oct 16 04:34:28 <plusminus_> First game is up: http://slideme.org/
Oct 16 04:35:22 <ttuttle> plusminus_: Hold on, does that "developer" icon show a guy with a TIE?!
Oct 16 04:35:56 <plusminus_> ?
Oct 16 04:36:01 <ttuttle> plusminus_: on slideme.org
Oct 16 04:36:19 <muthu_> plusminus_: congrats!
Oct 16 04:36:43 <plusminus_> ttuttle: lol, you are right :D
Oct 16 04:36:46 <plusminus_> muthu_:  thx
Oct 16 04:37:05 <muthu_> ttuttle: lol
Oct 16 04:37:11 <muthu_> weird developer
Oct 16 04:37:28 <plusminus_> maybe its a looong beard :)
Oct 16 04:38:57 <languish> it's also grey
Oct 16 04:39:08 <languish> a black suit wearing grey alien dev
Oct 16 04:39:22 <languish> they are among us
Oct 16 04:39:36 <languish> (cue x-files theme music)
Oct 16 04:43:38 <umdk1d3> hey google peeps, anybody around tonight with a g1 with the amazon music store?
Oct 16 04:43:51 <dmoffett> romainguy: When is that white paper coming out that discusses best practices for building portrait and landscape layouts on Android?
Oct 16 04:44:35 <umdk1d3> pm works best i suppose
Oct 16 04:45:25 <romainguy> what white paper?
Oct 16 04:45:41 <jasta> fuck
Oct 16 04:45:42 <dmoffett> wishful thinking I guess.  :-)
Oct 16 04:45:47 <jasta> my friend at t-mobile is getting his phone tomorrow
Oct 16 04:45:56 <muthu_> joot
Oct 16 04:46:06 <muthu_> its already shipping
Oct 16 04:48:02 <plusminus_> #2 http://slideme.org/content/andsudoku
Oct 16 04:49:41 <ttuttle> jasta: Nice.
Oct 16 04:50:00 <ttuttle> jasta: Are they shipping to customers now, or is he getting it early 'cause he works for T-Mo?
Oct 16 04:50:16 <dmoffett> romainguy:   Do you generally recommend doing a separate landscape and portrait layouts?
Oct 16 04:50:36 <ttuttle> dmoffett: (i'm not romainguy, but the answer is likely yes.)
Oct 16 04:50:44 <ttuttle> dmoffett: (unless your layout is so simple that it should be identical)
Oct 16 04:50:52 <plusminus_> muthu_: Any idea where to enter Payment-Information to SlideMe ?
Oct 16 04:51:02 <dmoffett> ttuttle: thank you.
Oct 16 04:51:06 <muthu_> plusminus_: haven't tried
Oct 16 04:51:19 <muthu_> should be in your account
Oct 16 04:51:22 <romainguy> dmoffett: it really depends on your layout :)
Oct 16 04:51:37 <romainguy> but for instance the Home screen's layout files in landscape and portrait are almost the same
Oct 16 04:51:44 <romainguy> I just changed the spacings, paddings, etc.
Oct 16 04:51:46 <romainguy> small details
Oct 16 04:51:47 <plusminus_> muthu_: there is just a (paypal)donate-mail to be entered (optional)
Oct 16 04:51:55 <muthu_> that should be it
Oct 16 04:51:59 <muthu_> oh yeah
Oct 16 04:52:18 <muthu_> guess slidme uses paypal
Oct 16 04:53:24 <dmoffett> romainguy: thank you.
Oct 16 04:53:38 <plusminus_> hm ok I though andappstore was using paypal and slideme sth different...
Oct 16 04:53:42 <muthu_> does G1 throw up a shocker for each permissions in manifest?
Oct 16 04:53:55 <plusminus_> I should contact Shane then...
Oct 16 04:54:00 <muthu_> right
Oct 16 04:54:14 <muthu_> andappstore, doesn't deal with payments afaik
Oct 16 04:54:17 <ttuttle> muthu_: Not really, just a list with little exclamation points for the scary ones.
Oct 16 04:54:29 <muthu_> oh ok
Oct 16 04:54:44 <muthu_> anyways, removing all unwanted permissions
Oct 16 04:54:50 <ttuttle> muthu_: Yeah, good idea.
Oct 16 04:54:53 <muthu_> no use to be greedy with permissions
Oct 16 05:02:49 <plusminus_> omg, everyone seems to have a G1 already... it sucks hard :(
Oct 16 05:03:01 <muthu_> everyone except devs
Oct 16 05:03:11 <plusminus_> most
Oct 16 05:03:27 <plusminus_> jeff sharkey got even his iTunes-Remote up :(
Oct 16 05:03:33 <muthu_> haha
Oct 16 05:03:54 <muthu_> jeff sharkey is the poster boy of android :)
Oct 16 05:04:00 <plusminus_> yeah
Oct 16 05:04:13 <romainguy> there's a bunch of reviews of G1 online
Oct 16 05:04:31 <plusminus_> thats what I meant with 'everyone' :(
Oct 16 05:04:43 <plusminus_> I mean, he can up his leisure-time apps and we don't even know the page to upload them to the market :(
Oct 16 05:04:51 <romainguy> it's funny, some people love the keyboard, other hate it
Oct 16 05:04:57 <romainguy> some people love the camera, other hate it
Oct 16 05:05:00 <romainguy> bah :)
Oct 16 05:05:11 <plusminus_> romainguy as usual
Oct 16 05:05:19 <plusminus_> hate it or love it ;)
Oct 16 05:05:36 <romainguy> I just wished they stopped saying "iPhone" every two words
Oct 16 05:05:43 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 16 05:05:52 <muthu_> iphone comparsion will never die
Oct 16 05:05:56 <umdk1d3> waaat?  who said i could just "upload" apps
Oct 16 05:06:08 <umdk1d3> im waiting for the market announcement just like everyone else  :P
Oct 16 05:06:23 <plusminus_> everyone is waiting, except some :)
Oct 16 05:06:35 <plusminus_> ...privileged ones
Oct 16 05:07:09 <romainguy> ahaha
Oct 16 05:07:09 <plusminus_> I'll get some sleep, so my G1 is one day closer :)
Oct 16 05:07:12 <dmoffett> So the market place will have a few invited developers and some google apps?
Oct 16 05:07:14 <romainguy> David Poguer about our software
Oct 16 05:07:15 <romainguy> "In any case, it?s polished enough to give Windows Mobile an inferiority complex the size of Australia"
Oct 16 05:07:29 <plusminus_> :-D
Oct 16 05:07:45 <plusminus_> romainguy grats :)
Oct 16 05:07:45 <muthu_> android is the best software platform out there, right now.
Oct 16 05:08:13 <muthu_> if only we can get source ;)
Oct 16 05:08:15 <plusminus_> n8 guys
Oct 16 05:08:25 <muthu_> nite plusminus_
Oct 16 05:08:32 <ttuttle> muthu_: It's in the works, don't worry.
Oct 16 05:08:47 <ttuttle> muthu_: The G1 was clearly at the top of the to-do list -)
Oct 16 05:08:49 <ttuttle> * ;-)
Oct 16 05:08:59 <muthu_> ttuttle: yep
Oct 16 05:09:36 <muthu_> one thing android taught me.. don't mess with UI's
Oct 16 05:09:43 <ttuttle> muthu_: heh
Oct 16 05:09:43 <languish> The new Engadget review of the G1 isn't so heartening
Oct 16 05:09:44 <languish> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review-part-1-hardware/
Oct 16 05:09:47 <ttuttle> Wow, Engadget's got a review.
Oct 16 05:09:50 <ttuttle> Just noticed it.
Oct 16 05:10:12 <languish> They key items for a "phone" they touch on, doesn't make it sound like a contender
Oct 16 05:10:14 <languish> *sigh*
Oct 16 05:10:41 <umdk1d3> just after midnight  rofl
Oct 16 05:10:47 <muthu_> languish: nice
Oct 16 05:10:54 <umdk1d3> i wonder if there was something that said they couldnt release reviews until a specific date
Oct 16 05:10:56 <languish> yep, they've had it ready for the moment the NDA is lifted
Oct 16 05:11:13 <languish> ahh crap, forgot about woot
Oct 16 05:11:40 <umdk1d3> wow  "11 hours and 21 minutes of life running the media player on shuffle while connected to a 3G network"
Oct 16 05:12:42 <muthu_> market, im, gmail, messaging
Oct 16 05:12:47 <romainguy> yeah teh battery life is really nice when you don't abuse the sensors (like GPS :))
Oct 16 05:15:01 <muthu_> ha, youtube
Oct 16 05:15:17 <ttuttle> Damn.
Oct 16 05:15:31 * ttuttle should have implemented a long-press menu with a "Delete alarm" option in Alarm Clock.
Oct 16 05:15:36 <ttuttle> Engadget doesn't like the way I did it.
Oct 16 05:16:07 <romainguy> ttuttle: I hate you for this every time I try to delete an alarm :)
Oct 16 05:16:17 <muthu_> "The G1 isn't going to blow anyone's mind right out of the gate."
Oct 16 05:17:31 <romainguy> "with the high quality wallpaper images the resolution and clarity is really shown off well"
Oct 16 05:17:34 <romainguy> that's all I'm saying :))
Oct 16 05:18:13 <muthu_> your wallpapers are the highlights :)
Oct 16 05:20:32 <ttuttle> romainguy: Would you like a patch?
Oct 16 05:20:34 <languish> They complain about spotty 3G connectivity and poor gps connectivity
Oct 16 05:20:36 <languish> bleh
Oct 16 05:20:49 <romainguy> which apparently depends on where you are
Oct 16 05:20:54 <languish> yep
Oct 16 05:20:56 <romainguy> both work great in San Francisco :)
Oct 16 05:21:15 <languish> yeah, it doesn't help the g1 though that android is lambasting it
Oct 16 05:21:20 <languish> err
Oct 16 05:21:26 <languish> that engadget is lambasting it
Oct 16 05:21:37 * ttuttle doesn't care...
Oct 16 05:21:39 * ttuttle <3 his G1.
Oct 16 05:21:40 <romainguy> yeah they don't like us :)
Oct 16 05:21:49 <romainguy> I can bet you that Wired will hate it too
Oct 16 05:22:03 <languish> yeah I saw wireds take on it before, yeesh
Oct 16 05:22:16 <languish> also, I live in NYC.  I'm hoping for a better experience than engadget had
Oct 16 05:22:47 <languish> but them, I also know tmo isn't the best deal for indoor connectivity
Oct 16 05:22:59 <dmoffett> It seems they are fans of that other phone. :-(
Oct 16 05:23:15 <languish> well, they *are* style whores
Oct 16 05:23:28 <illusion> hey guys, what should i put into xml android:orientation="vertical" then other to make wide-view?
Oct 16 05:26:12 <illusion> oh it was "horizontal"..
Oct 16 05:26:24 <languish> Gonna have to get a spotlight belt buckle for poorly illuminated camera shots with the g1
Oct 16 05:26:25 <languish> lulz
Oct 16 05:28:49 <umdk1d3> holy crap reviews crawling out of the woodwork
Oct 16 05:30:47 <romainguy> zdnet has a very extensive and interesting review
Oct 16 05:33:50 <languish> does the contact management on the g1 have fields for a) more than 1 alternate phone #, b) addresse(s) c) full name & nickname ?
Oct 16 05:34:09 <romainguy> I don't remember about nickname but yes to the other questions
Oct 16 05:34:16 <romainguy> you can try it out in the emulator
Oct 16 05:34:53 <languish> nod. I've avoided getting used to the emu mostly so I don't get attached to a method of use that may differ on the phone itself
Oct 16 05:36:37 <languish> depending on how I like the g1, I'll be using it for 6 to 8 months, or until an alternative android device with features I prefer comes along. (the lack of flash for the camera really annoys me as it's from HTC and they have it on the touch pro)
Oct 16 05:37:11 <languish> I'm just hoping what comes next doesn't drop features from the g1, like the compass
Oct 16 05:37:45 <muthu_> it would be a mix and match
Oct 16 05:38:11 <languish> a mix and match of the better features without loss of key features is my hope
Oct 16 05:38:40 <languish> but the industry always seems to manage to make assinine choices in design, leaving one key item out to entice upgrading
Oct 16 05:39:14 <muthu_> yep
Oct 16 05:41:31 <languish> hmm
Oct 16 05:42:20 <languish> My wife's sim card is older than t-mobile in the USA itself. It's still either an omnipoint or voicestream sim card.  Could this be a problem for use with the g1?  transferring her contacts and whatnot...
Oct 16 05:43:11 <languish> I'be found some newer devices require a more recent sim card version
Oct 16 05:48:31 <muthu_> notifications is the best part, according to engadget
Oct 16 05:51:03 <dmoffett> Really it is up to the Google developers and third party developers to make Android a success.  Android has some abilities that are not available on the other comparable phones.  in a long race not a sprint.
Oct 16 05:51:18 <languish> I'm rather suprised they didn't go the anti-cloud google knows everything about you tinhat angle
Oct 16 05:51:44 <languish> The writing looks like it was heading there, but it got cut
Oct 16 05:52:09 <muthu_> we can't emphasize enough: the
Oct 16 05:52:09 <muthu_> pervasive nature of your Google account throughout Android is an
Oct 16 05:52:09 <muthu_> absolute boon,
Oct 16 05:52:40 <languish> nod, plusses of the benefits in modern use outweight the negatives
Oct 16 05:53:16 <languish> though it doesn't change the dangers of dumb terminal computing
Oct 16 05:53:49 <languish> I've already had a pisseed off nutcase at tmo mess with me a few years ago
Oct 16 05:53:59 <muthu_> Android's Gmail client is, for lack of a better word, amazing.
Oct 16 05:58:20 <languish> yeah, I'm looking forward to it
Oct 16 05:58:34 <languish> also looking forward to eventually being able to switch bewteen accounts
Oct 16 05:58:43 <languish> work/home/hobby
Oct 16 06:00:26 <muthu_> Is AmazonMP3 the G1's killer app? Nah, Android itself is the G1's killer
Oct 16 06:00:27 <muthu_> app,
Oct 16 06:01:08 * _avatar likes the AmazonMP3 app, but is biased ;)
Oct 16 06:02:20 <_avatar> and yeah, the gmail app is killer
Oct 16 06:06:13 <muthu_> Perhaps the coolest feature here, though, is the security warning for
Oct 16 06:06:13 <muthu_> each app you download.
Oct 16 06:06:40 <illusion> can i make my app to stay wide-view always whether the phone vertical or horizontal? ive tried landscape orient but its has some warning and doesnt work.
Oct 16 06:07:05 <muthu_> you can control your layout however you want
Oct 16 06:07:08 <illusion> also tried android:orientation="horizontal" with the layout
Oct 16 06:07:32 <illusion> how?
Oct 16 06:07:35 <muthu_> override onConfigurationChange
Oct 16 06:07:40 <muthu_> and then adjust your layout
Oct 16 06:07:52 <illusion> oh thx ill try
Oct 16 06:08:45 <muthu_> you're still buying into one of the most
Oct 16 06:08:45 <muthu_> exiting developments in the mobile world in recent memory.
Oct 16 06:09:28 <muthu_> nice engadget review
Oct 16 06:10:04 * Lenolium shakes his fist at the UPS "Billing Information Received" page
Oct 16 06:24:53 <languish> o.O
Oct 16 06:25:52 <muthu_> 0.o
Oct 16 06:27:26 <illusion> muthu_: i tried my config.orientation = Configuration.ORIENTATION_LANDSCAPE; but still same
Oct 16 06:27:50 <muthu_> illusion: its upto you to draw layouts
Oct 16 06:27:55 <muthu_> as you want
Oct 16 06:28:05 <muthu_> there's no auto layout capabilities
Oct 16 06:28:09 <illusion> i made it also landscape orientation
Oct 16 06:28:20 <muthu_> yeah, now adjust your views
Oct 16 06:28:32 <muthu_> if you don't provide landscape layouts
Oct 16 06:28:37 <muthu_> it will still use portrait ones
Oct 16 06:29:07 <illusion> i has just only landscape layout now
Oct 16 06:29:19 <illusion> and adjusted.
Oct 16 06:29:50 <muthu_> res/layout will be used for portrait
Oct 16 06:29:57 <muthu_> res/layout-land for landscape
Oct 16 06:30:07 <illusion> what i want is when the phone is vetically set, wanna show the screen as landscape.
Oct 16 06:30:22 <muthu_> right, then add a layout file in res/layout-land directory
Oct 16 06:30:23 <illusion> oh
Oct 16 06:30:28 <illusion> thxthx
Oct 16 06:30:30 <muthu_> you can have myview.xml
Oct 16 06:30:32 <illusion> its hard man.
Oct 16 06:30:44 <muthu_> yeah, its easy once you get in
Oct 16 06:31:02 <muthu_> you can have different config files for each configurations
Oct 16 06:31:05 <muthu_> in its own directories
Oct 16 06:31:11 <muthu_> and android auto picks them if available
Oct 16 06:31:24 <illusion> oh .. got it. will try again
Oct 16 06:32:29 <DarkriftX> anyone know some sites with android downloads besides helloandroid?
Oct 16 06:37:55 <muthu_> andappstore.com slideme.org anddev.org
Oct 16 06:40:27 <jasta> speaking of which, i need to think of a design for my player screen in landscape mode
Oct 16 06:40:35 <jasta> thinking like artwork in the middle and controls on the left and right
Oct 16 06:40:40 <jasta> but not sure specifically
Oct 16 06:41:49 <DarkriftX> nice, thx
Oct 16 06:51:47 <illusion> muthu_: i made landscape layout then when onCreate function calls setContentView i tossed landscape layout but then application crashed.
Oct 16 06:52:10 <muthu_> illusion: have the same name
Oct 16 06:52:16 <muthu_> and then pass it to setcontentview
Oct 16 06:52:21 <muthu_> the switch will happen auto
Oct 16 06:52:35 <illusion> ? i supposed to be the filename huh?
Oct 16 06:52:41 <illusion> it
Oct 16 06:52:57 <muthu_> yeah, it will pick the right file
Oct 16 06:52:59 <illusion> oh..
Oct 16 06:53:06 <muthu_> based on the current device configuration
Oct 16 06:53:08 <illusion> same name..
Oct 16 06:53:11 <muthu_> right
Oct 16 06:53:11 <illusion> cool!
Oct 16 06:53:19 <muthu_> layout/myview.xml
Oct 16 06:53:22 <muthu_> layout-land/myview.xml
Oct 16 06:54:27 <illusion> oh i picks vertical one... what should i do with onConfigurationChanged function?
Oct 16 06:54:30 <illusion> it
Oct 16 06:54:35 <illusion> it picks vertical one.
Oct 16 06:54:42 <muthu_> don't do anything
Oct 16 06:54:43 <languish> how does the g1/android handle management of installed apps? does it allow the app to remove itself when you delete/uninstall? or does the os keep track of every element an app installs for later uninstallation?
Oct 16 06:54:59 <illusion> public void onConfigurationChanged(Configuration newConfig)
Oct 16 06:54:59 <illusion>     {
Oct 16 06:54:59 <illusion>     	newConfig.orientation = Configuration.ORIENTATION_LANDSCAPE;
Oct 16 06:54:59 <illusion>     	super.onConfigurationChanged(newConfig);
Oct 16 06:54:59 <illusion>     }
Oct 16 06:55:03 <illusion> i did like this
Oct 16 06:55:09 <illusion> dont do?;
Oct 16 06:55:15 <muthu_> you can do that if you want additonal stuff
Oct 16 06:55:22 <muthu_> but if you are only flipping layouts
Oct 16 06:55:27 <muthu_> android automatically does it
Oct 16 06:55:37 <muthu_> setContentView will take care
Oct 16 06:56:09 <muthu_> languish: guess, when you delete it uninstalls
Oct 16 06:56:12 <illusion> oh.. u misunderstood.
Oct 16 06:57:03 <illusion> i wanna do as vertical cell phone position with landscape mode which means the string gonna be shown as 90 degree of normal one.
Oct 16 06:57:45 <illusion> but thx though i didnt know bout layout-land one
Oct 16 06:58:02 <illusion> do u have any idea with my question?
Oct 16 06:58:11 <muthu_> vertical layout with landscape..
Oct 16 06:58:28 <muthu_> you want a custom layout?
Oct 16 06:58:37 <illusion> kinda
Oct 16 06:58:45 <muthu_> yeah, then put it in your layout
Oct 16 06:58:50 <muthu_> in layout-land folder
Oct 16 06:58:51 <illusion> i mean
Oct 16 06:59:20 <muthu_> oh, only the strings
Oct 16 06:59:32 <muthu_> ok.. you want the text to be vertical
Oct 16 07:00:00 <muthu_> then you'll have to position the textview to be vertical
Oct 16 07:00:13 <illusion> whether it vertical or horizontal i wanna show same layout with same width and height. if one rotates, it will not be changed.
Oct 16 07:00:26 <illusion> no no whole screen
Oct 16 07:00:28 <muthu_> yeah
Oct 16 07:00:31 <illusion> i just test with strings
Oct 16 07:00:33 <muthu_> easy
Oct 16 07:00:37 <illusion> but now
Oct 16 07:00:38 <muthu_> have two xml files
Oct 16 07:00:47 <muthu_> and define your views however you want
Oct 16 07:01:08 <illusion> oh so whole two same vertical layouts?
Oct 16 07:01:10 <muthu_> make sure inside your landscape xml..
Oct 16 07:01:15 <muthu_> you change to whatever
Oct 16 07:01:46 <muthu_> are you not changing the content of your layout-land/myview.xml?
Oct 16 07:01:53 <muthu_> dont put the same xml content
Oct 16 07:01:58 <illusion> no
Oct 16 07:01:58 <muthu_> then it will show the same
Oct 16 07:02:20 <muthu_> inside the layout xml.. change your views to reflect what you want
Oct 16 07:03:28 <umdk1d3> illusion: you mean you want to force your users to always see a landscape or portrait view?
Oct 16 07:03:33 <umdk1d3> regardless of keyboard status?
Oct 16 07:03:56 <illusion> landscape view
Oct 16 07:04:08 <umdk1d3> you can force an orientation using  <activity ... android:screenOrientation="landscape" ...
Oct 16 07:04:12 <illusion> regardless orientation
Oct 16 07:04:13 <umdk1d3> in your manifest
Oct 16 07:04:23 <umdk1d3> that way it will never show portrait view
Oct 16 07:04:37 <muthu_> yeah, but he wants the view to adjust
Oct 16 07:05:40 <illusion> oh umdk1d3 its what i want;
Oct 16 07:05:51 <illusion> thx both
Oct 16 07:06:11 <muthu_> ha, finally :)
Oct 16 07:06:14 <illusion> what i wanted to do was it.
Oct 16 07:06:16 <illusion> and also
Oct 16 07:06:30 <illusion> i got new skills cause of u muthu!!
Oct 16 07:06:37 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 16 07:06:40 <muthu_> hang in here more
Oct 16 07:06:44 <illusion> its so nice to do irc with u guys. haha
Oct 16 07:06:46 <muthu_> umdk1d3: will make you an expert ;)
Oct 16 07:07:03 <illusion> sweet
Oct 16 07:20:39 <muthu_> once a notification is read, does it auto clear?
Oct 16 07:20:44 <muthu_> or do we have to do it manually?
Oct 16 07:20:55 <umdk1d3> there is a persistant flag, otherwise it autoclears
Oct 16 07:20:59 <romainguy> you have to clear it
Oct 16 07:21:06 <muthu_> how to clear?
Oct 16 07:21:22 <romainguy> read the doc :)
Oct 16 07:21:39 <muthu_> the docs are not clear :)
Oct 16 07:22:02 <umdk1d3> NotificationManager.cancel(yourId)
Oct 16 07:22:10 <muthu_> is that it?
Oct 16 07:22:13 <umdk1d3> yes
Oct 16 07:22:18 <muthu_> man, android is koolio
Oct 16 07:22:27 * umdk1d3 shakes head in bewilderment
Oct 16 07:22:30 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 16 07:22:36 <romainguy> umdk1d3: muthu is lazy :)
Oct 16 07:22:44 <muthu_> yep
Oct 16 07:22:55 <muthu_> i'm using zero icons in my app
Oct 16 07:23:00 <umdk1d3> shudder
Oct 16 07:23:02 <muthu_> all borrowed from android
Oct 16 07:23:12 <umdk1d3> i hate apps that dont have icons for their menus
Oct 16 07:23:24 <muthu_> yeah, android has tons
Oct 16 07:23:25 <umdk1d3> its so easy to just borrow something remotely relateed from android.R
Oct 16 07:23:32 <muthu_> yep
Oct 16 07:23:59 <umdk1d3> there was some discussion earlier about the "legality" of pulling non-public icons from other preloaded packages
Oct 16 07:24:16 <muthu_> using only android.R
Oct 16 07:26:00 <languish> android's license should push unfettered freely-licensed use of all icons that are not trademarked logos
Oct 16 07:26:18 <muthu_> why android doesn't clear notification, when the user clicks on it.. is another mystery
Oct 16 07:26:41 <umdk1d3> languish: i think the issue at this point is that they are packaged up, and getting them out involves unpacking their apks, which kinda goes against sdk license
Oct 16 07:26:46 <languish> sometimes an icon one company uses just makes so much sense to use in some other companys application, but you can't
Oct 16 07:26:47 <umdk1d3> that might be cleared up when platform is released, idk
Oct 16 07:27:06 <languish> 'eh screenshot copy, paste
Oct 16 07:27:09 <languish> :|
Oct 16 07:27:27 <umdk1d3> isnt there alpha channel with some of em tho?
Oct 16 07:27:39 * languish clueless
Oct 16 07:27:47 <umdk1d3> also, rumor has it there is a gorgous icon creation guide that will hopefully be released soon
Oct 16 07:28:00 <languish> it's just an issue that's pissed me off in the past on other devices/products
Oct 16 07:28:07 <languish> as an end-user
Oct 16 07:36:40 <umdk1d3> ohbtw dont forget to give android some digg love with all the reviews coming out
Oct 16 07:36:53 <umdk1d3> http://digg.com/search?s=android&submit=Search&section=all&type=both&area=all&sort=new
Oct 16 07:37:47 <android123> hi
Oct 16 07:38:00 <umdk1d3> heythere  :)
Oct 16 07:38:24 <muthu_> hi
Oct 16 07:41:52 <muthu_> what's the broadcast, when user clicks notifcations?
Oct 16 07:42:00 <muthu_> want to cancel it, right after click
Oct 16 07:42:36 <romainguy> it broadcasts whatever intent you set on the notification
Oct 16 07:42:55 <muthu_> right, but don't to want to handle in the activity
Oct 16 07:43:08 <romainguy> then create a BroadcastReceiver
Oct 16 07:43:15 <muthu_> filter?
Oct 16 07:43:28 <muthu_> arghghh
Oct 16 07:43:49 <muthu_> doesn't the system broadcast, notificationclick intent or something
Oct 16 07:43:55 <romainguy> I just told you
Oct 16 07:43:59 <romainguy> it broadcasts the intent you want
Oct 16 07:44:12 <muthu_> hmm
Oct 16 07:44:46 <umdk1d3> PendingIntent
Oct 16 07:45:03 <umdk1d3> you could send a BroadcastIntent in whatever handles the pending intent i guess
Oct 16 07:45:09 <muthu_> oh right
Oct 16 07:45:29 <muthu_> register a reciever for the pending intent on top of the activity
Oct 16 07:45:30 <muthu_> cool
Oct 16 07:48:33 * muthu_ writes the first receiver
Oct 16 07:48:42 * muthu_ copy the photostream stuff
Oct 16 07:49:28 <languish> hrm
Oct 16 07:50:02 <android123> anyone working on android porting
Oct 16 07:50:50 <languish> does the g1 browser have encrypted proxy connection capability?
Oct 16 07:51:33 <languish> I'd prefer not to have tmobile watching some of my business interaction, including urls (which ssl doesn't hide)
Oct 16 07:51:42 <languish> https rather
Oct 16 07:51:44 <languish> but yeah..
Oct 16 07:59:15 <umdk1d3> roooooofl
Oct 16 07:59:22 <umdk1d3> muthu_: review of cooking capsules
Oct 16 07:59:25 <umdk1d3> "Somehow the pot with steamed brocolli had something flammable on it and I turned around and FLAMES EVERYWHERE"
Oct 16 07:59:33 <muthu_> haha
Oct 16 07:59:44 <muthu_> where's the review?
Oct 16 07:59:47 <umdk1d3> you *did* put an eula on that right?  :P
Oct 16 07:59:53 <muthu_> lol
Oct 16 07:59:55 <umdk1d3> http://phandroid.com/2008/10/16/application-review-cooking-capsules/
Oct 16 08:00:25 <muthu_> hope no one drops their G1 in the pot ;)
Oct 16 08:01:55 <languish> oh man
Oct 16 08:02:01 <languish> my wife's gonna love that app
Oct 16 08:02:13 <DarkriftX> what do you guys think about an android download site that actually offers downloads?
Oct 16 08:02:15 <languish> any little device that has cooking instructions, she's there
Oct 16 08:02:44 <languish> DarkriftX, they don't exist yet?
Oct 16 08:02:49 <DarkriftX> barely
Oct 16 08:03:03 <DarkriftX> i have to do a LOT of searching to find stuff....
Oct 16 08:03:08 <languish> are you talking about just apps, or?
Oct 16 08:03:15 <DarkriftX> i started one, just wanted opinions on the idea
Oct 16 08:03:18 <DarkriftX> apps, games etc
Oct 16 08:03:55 <languish> as I see it, there're gonna be plenty. equivalent to freeware download sites
Oct 16 08:03:56 <DarkriftX> soem sites offer a couple downloads but you have to hit like 10 sites to get any selection, so ive been scouring and gathering whatever i can to serve in one location
Oct 16 08:04:16 <languish> the more the merrier
Oct 16 08:04:25 <languish> hopefully yours is the one everyone will love, right?
Oct 16 08:04:31 <DarkriftX> im hoping
Oct 16 08:04:33 <languish> :)
Oct 16 08:04:45 <DarkriftX> from what i can tell, i already have more choice then all the others ive found
Oct 16 08:05:14 <languish> i suggest...
Oct 16 08:05:35 <languish> you dev an app, that you put in the android store... that lets users browse your selection
Oct 16 08:05:40 <languish> :|
Oct 16 08:05:48 <languish> y helo redundancy that makes sense
Oct 16 08:05:54 <DarkriftX> im listed in about 160th place for "android downloads" but the 159 sites before me have almost nothing.
Oct 16 08:06:06 <DarkriftX> i dont code very well, but i like choice when it comes to apps
Oct 16 08:06:17 <languish> ok, since you haven't spammed it, which I appreciate
Oct 16 08:06:28 <languish> what site is it, since obviously you'd like to get to that
Oct 16 08:06:36 <DarkriftX> i spent hours trying to find decent stuff to try in the emulator and someone in here told me to try helloandroid, which has more then any other site i found
Oct 16 08:07:01 <DarkriftX> heh, spamming a channel with 108 users wont help me at all, im more worried about what you guys think of the idea then my site
Oct 16 08:07:09 <languish> I also suggest a newegg.coms style user review option
Oct 16 08:07:11 <languish> and rating
Oct 16 08:07:23 <languish> ah
Oct 16 08:07:31 <languish> the domain with a dash in it is likely doomed
Oct 16 08:07:36 <languish> :(
Oct 16 08:07:44 <DarkriftX> nah, dashes are better in search engines
Oct 16 08:07:49 <umdk1d3> o.o interesting, there is a myspace app on the side of the g1 box
Oct 16 08:07:58 <languish> hahaha
Oct 16 08:07:59 <umdk1d3> http://phandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/cimg06111.jpg
Oct 16 08:08:22 <languish> that makes sense, but is scary
Oct 16 08:08:22 <romainguy> there's also my photo ^^
Oct 16 08:08:31 <languish> romainguy, which?
Oct 16 08:08:48 <languish> the one to the left of the myspace?
Oct 16 08:08:53 <romainguy> no, at the bottom
Oct 16 08:08:54 <romainguy> the sunset
Oct 16 08:09:03 <languish> ahh
Oct 16 08:09:09 <languish> right, someone mentioned your backgrounds
Oct 16 08:09:13 <languish> cool :)
Oct 16 08:11:30 <languish> DarkriftX, I know you have a navigation menu on the left, but.. the bar where it says "home" i suggest you put links there too
Oct 16 08:11:47 <languish> i instinctively looked for that first
Oct 16 08:12:07 <languish> links/buttons
Oct 16 08:12:08 <muthu_> nice package
Oct 16 08:13:42 <languish> DarkriftX, also.. you don't have links in the downloads section descriptions, back to the websites of the original developers.
Oct 16 08:13:47 <languish> I would like to see that
Oct 16 08:13:49 <DarkriftX> languish, that is the breadcrumbs
Oct 16 08:13:54 <DarkriftX> there is a nav at very top also
Oct 16 08:14:58 <DarkriftX> languish, i dont like my download component, but when i get it all fixed, it will have better descriptions, author links and screenshots
Oct 16 08:15:09 <DarkriftX> right now im working on getting the most selection available
Oct 16 08:15:22 <languish> DarkriftX, yeahm I saw it after. (the top menu).  It scrolled off the screen on the home page when I was looking at content.
Oct 16 08:15:37 <languish> The title image is so large, it makes the home screen top nav menu easy to miss
Oct 16 08:15:53 <DarkriftX> yeah
Oct 16 08:16:48 <languish> just making my observations, sorry :)
Oct 16 08:17:03 <DarkriftX> no prob, thats what im looking for
Oct 16 08:18:29 <languish> DarkriftX, on the device info..
Oct 16 08:18:30 <languish> Storage: 1gb built in with MicroSD slot for expansion
Oct 16 08:18:33 <languish> is not correct
Oct 16 08:18:57 <languish> it comes with a 1 gig microSD card. that's not 1gig built in
Oct 16 08:19:13 <DarkriftX> ahhh, got that from tmobile site :S
Oct 16 08:19:16 <languish> haha
Oct 16 08:19:19 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 16 08:19:25 <DarkriftX> guess i shouldnt trust them
Oct 16 08:19:27 <languish> yeah, even in the manual and other places, lots of inaccuracies
Oct 16 08:19:45 <languish> like calling the slot an "SD" slot, without mentioning it's microSD
Oct 16 08:19:53 <DarkriftX> ouch
Oct 16 08:19:55 <languish> a lot of people are going to be confused by that
Oct 16 08:20:06 <languish> and it's typical t-mobile
Oct 16 08:20:07 <DarkriftX> i feel for the poor ppl that purchase huge sd cards from no name companies after reading that
Oct 16 08:20:15 <languish> yep
Oct 16 08:21:05 <DarkriftX> Storage: MicroSD slot for expansion with 1gb MicroSD card included <--- better?
Oct 16 08:21:16 <languish> yessir
Oct 16 08:24:10 <DarkriftX> im hoping to make it more of a "user submitted" download site, and i set the forum up for that purpose
Oct 16 08:24:28 <DarkriftX> i want members to submit new downloads, they will get checked and added to the downloads after
Oct 16 08:24:48 <languish> ah
Oct 16 08:25:00 <languish> that much isn't obvious from what I see
Oct 16 08:25:02 <DarkriftX> i integrated forum into site so it only needs 1 login for both
Oct 16 08:25:32 <languish> "submit app/game" button would be good
Oct 16 08:25:55 <DarkriftX> good idea... ill make a page with information and a link to the forum
Oct 16 08:27:08 <languish> make a honkin big button where the "who's online" box is on the front page
Oct 16 08:27:58 <languish> "Submit/Add your app/game"
Oct 16 08:28:33 <DarkriftX> thats doable
Oct 16 08:53:12 <sujith> hey anyone working on android porting?
Oct 16 08:55:40 <DarkriftX> go look now languish
Oct 16 08:56:28 <sujith> i just wanna ask one question that if a hardware which already supports linux kernel, and if we apply the latest patch to it, will it work fine?
Oct 16 08:57:33 <sujith> what are the things that we should keep in mind while applying the patch ?
Oct 16 08:58:47 <umdk1d3> sujith: you prolly want to make sure that you start with the same base kernel version
Oct 16 08:58:54 <umdk1d3> vanilla, that is, from kernel.org
Oct 16 08:59:09 <umdk1d3> im not sure, but there should be an entire git tree fork for android
Oct 16 08:59:32 <umdk1d3> sujith: http://git.android.com/
Oct 16 09:00:00 <umdk1d3> remember that alot of those patches are just adding drivers
Oct 16 09:00:10 <umdk1d3> specifically the framebuffer driver
Oct 16 09:00:27 <umdk1d3> and iirc, if that framebuffer isnt loaded then the rest of the binary android stack isnt happy
Oct 16 09:00:39 <muthu_> is it a good idea to start an activity from a receiver?
Oct 16 09:00:40 <umdk1d3> at least thats what i ran into on my nokia n810
Oct 16 09:01:38 <DarkriftX> you still around languish?
Oct 16 09:02:51 <sujith> umdk1d3: as you said that kernel version should be same
Oct 16 09:03:22 <sujith> now the current android is released based on kernel 2.6.25
Oct 16 09:04:29 <sujith> but i want the patch to be applied on kernel 2.6.23
Oct 16 09:04:38 <sujith> then will it create any problem?
Oct 16 09:04:54 <umdk1d3> patch is pretty robust, and should let you know of any really bad things it runs into
Oct 16 09:05:05 <umdk1d3> *patch, the cmd line utility
Oct 16 09:05:41 <umdk1d3> i wouldnt be suprised if it didnt patch entirely, or if even if it did succeed if the compile then borked
Oct 16 09:06:04 <languish> DarkriftX  yes
Oct 16 09:06:11 <sujith> no no don't take in that manner
Oct 16 09:06:24 <DarkriftX> look again
Oct 16 09:06:29 <DarkriftX> i added a BIG button lol
Oct 16 09:06:41 <sujith> see i got the patch by applying a diff in same linux kernel versions
Oct 16 09:06:42 <sujith> ok
Oct 16 09:06:52 <languish> DarkriftX, that's a nice big button buddy. But you should say "Submit an app or game" not just submit a file
Oct 16 09:07:14 <languish> remember, many devs aren't native english speakers
Oct 16 09:07:17 <sujith> and now i want that patch to be applied on lower version
Oct 16 09:07:32 <umdk1d3> sujith: right, its not that easy  :/
Oct 16 09:07:35 <languish> you need to give them very obvious language, and options for comprehension
Oct 16 09:07:45 <muthu_> DarkriftX: what's the repo you talking about?
Oct 16 09:07:48 <languish> so "Add/Submit an App/Game"
Oct 16 09:07:55 <DarkriftX> repo?
Oct 16 09:08:06 <muthu_> add/submit apps?
Oct 16 09:08:24 <languish> DarkriftX, remember you didn't paste the url in the channel
Oct 16 09:08:27 <DarkriftX> oh
Oct 16 09:08:31 <languish> so they dunno what we're talking about
Oct 16 09:08:34 <DarkriftX> its a site i made for android downloads
Oct 16 09:08:38 <DarkriftX> didnt want to spam channel
Oct 16 09:08:39 <muthu_> which one?
Oct 16 09:08:49 <DarkriftX> sent you a notice
Oct 16 09:08:55 <muthu_> ok
Oct 16 09:09:00 <muthu_> is it android-dls.com?
Oct 16 09:09:05 <languish> haha
Oct 16 09:09:10 <languish> yes muthu_
Oct 16 09:09:14 <muthu_> cool
Oct 16 09:09:28 <sujith> umdk1d3: so you meant to say that by taking a patch from the diff of kernel 2.6.25 and android and applying that patch to kernel version 2.6.23 will create problems?
Oct 16 09:09:47 <sujith> see the code is compiled just fine without any probs
Oct 16 09:10:00 <sujith> but need to be checked on the hardware
Oct 16 09:10:07 <umdk1d3> oh interesting
Oct 16 09:10:24 <umdk1d3> i would expect there to be some issues moving multiple kernel steps like that
Oct 16 09:10:38 <sujith> so i am asking this because any one of you would have done the same things
Oct 16 09:10:43 <umdk1d3> i guess the android changes werent tied into anyhting that changed between 23 and 25
Oct 16 09:10:53 <sujith> yup true
Oct 16 09:10:56 <sujith> you are right
Oct 16 09:11:07 <umdk1d3> is there a specific reason you need it .23 based?
Oct 16 09:11:20 <sujith> not like that
Oct 16 09:11:33 <DarkriftX> ok languish changed text to say "Submit App Or Game"
Oct 16 09:11:34 <muthu_> lot of downloads available.. nice
Oct 16 09:11:43 <sujith> but i thought of doing this to check the backward compatibilty
Oct 16 09:11:55 <DarkriftX> thats my goal, got tired of searching for hours for apps to test in the emulator
Oct 16 09:12:15 <languish> DarkriftX, lower case o in Or, otherwise, good'nuff :)
Oct 16 09:12:19 <DarkriftX> heh
Oct 16 09:12:20 <sujith> if it not works, then its no different from microsoft's other softwares :)
Oct 16 09:13:38 <languish> DarkriftX, ok, after clicking the submit button.. in the text.. (even though you'd think it's obvious) indicate you want them to submit ANDROID apps/games
Oct 16 09:13:47 <languish> or you'll have people submitting all kinds of unrelated crap
Oct 16 09:13:48 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 16 09:14:09 <languish> With a brief explaination of what Android is
Oct 16 09:14:20 <muthu_> haha.. dont want people to submit iphone apps
Oct 16 09:14:26 <languish> :)
Oct 16 09:14:32 <muthu_> may be android will run them :)
Oct 16 09:14:36 <umdk1d3> DarkriftX: i would tread carefully--especially since you dont link back to the sources
Oct 16 09:14:47 <umdk1d3> the biggest problem being that you become liable for bad apps
Oct 16 09:14:59 <languish> umdk1d3, yeah, I mentioned linking back to the original devs to him
Oct 16 09:15:06 <umdk1d3> someone could come back and blame you for a bad app, when it really wasnt your fault
Oct 16 09:15:17 <DarkriftX> umdk1d3, that will be done soon
Oct 16 09:15:26 <DarkriftX> its still new and im working out the kinks
Oct 16 09:15:32 <umdk1d3> also, as a developer seeing some of my apps on there, it boils the blood a little bit
Oct 16 09:15:40 <umdk1d3> i dont like sending dmca notices  :/
Oct 16 09:16:00 <languish> DarkriftX, I suggest you lock the site down, until it's ready to go live
Oct 16 09:16:02 <umdk1d3> but i suppose i cant do much when i opensouced them
Oct 16 09:16:21 <languish> give people you want to review it a p/w
Oct 16 09:16:24 <DarkriftX> everything on there was downloaded from other sites and i tried to make sure none were non freeware
Oct 16 09:16:25 <muthu_> yeah, but closed apps will be a problem
Oct 16 09:16:34 <DarkriftX> i wont be offering those
Oct 16 09:16:44 <languish> open source != freeware
Oct 16 09:16:48 <languish> beware that misconception
Oct 16 09:16:55 <umdk1d3> DarkriftX: another issue would be versioning
Oct 16 09:17:09 <umdk1d3> its going to be a mess for you to keep up on versions released in other places
Oct 16 09:17:21 <umdk1d3> if you add apps that developers dont "claim"
Oct 16 09:17:25 <umdk1d3> then you end up with stale content
Oct 16 09:17:57 <muthu_> unless a bot constantly checks for updates
Oct 16 09:18:10 <DarkriftX> like i said, my goal is to have most of it user submitted (devs would be great sources)
Oct 16 09:18:40 <DarkriftX> i will be checking to see if the developers offer downloads without paying, not creating a warez site with it
Oct 16 09:18:40 <muthu_> DarkriftX: if you list free apps, it shouldn't be a problem
Oct 16 09:18:54 <DarkriftX> all of those were on sites claiming they were free
Oct 16 09:19:11 <muthu_> good, since a free android download site is required
Oct 16 09:19:21 <muthu_> most of the markets now claim both free and paid
Oct 16 09:19:37 <muthu_> a complete free market will be in great demand
Oct 16 09:19:42 <DarkriftX> exactly
Oct 16 09:19:53 <DarkriftX> paying should be done to developers not hosts
Oct 16 09:20:04 <languish> heads up http://www.android-freeware.org/
Oct 16 09:20:15 <languish> someone out there is trying it too
Oct 16 09:20:18 <muthu_> great
Oct 16 09:20:32 <DarkriftX> yeah, they have like 20 downloads though
Oct 16 09:20:35 <DarkriftX> i have 56
Oct 16 09:20:38 <languish> and they have balls
Oct 16 09:20:41 <languish> "Welcome to the one and only Open Directory of Android freeware! "
Oct 16 09:20:46 <languish> :|
Oct 16 09:20:46 <DarkriftX> and my sites a little over a week old
Oct 16 09:20:47 <umdk1d3> sigh i fear this will all be a mute point in a few weeks
Oct 16 09:20:53 <languish> umdk1d3, agreed
Oct 16 09:21:08 <languish> very few will bother with anything but android market
Oct 16 09:21:32 <umdk1d3> unless market turns out to be restrictive somehow
Oct 16 09:21:42 <languish> it will eventually have to be
Oct 16 09:21:44 <umdk1d3> in a way that a third party "market" could step in and help
Oct 16 09:22:13 <umdk1d3> but that would become obvious only after we see how the original market holds up
Oct 16 09:22:25 <muthu_> market cannot hold everything
Oct 16 09:22:30 <umdk1d3> i could see there becoming an "elite" type market
Oct 16 09:22:45 <umdk1d3> i looked through the ipod app store and it was all... junk
Oct 16 09:22:50 <languish> well, product type dedicated markets
Oct 16 09:22:57 <languish> business apps specific
Oct 16 09:23:03 <languish> games specific
Oct 16 09:23:07 <umdk1d3> languish: sure, excatly
Oct 16 09:23:20 <umdk1d3> like geared towards sysadmins, versus social networking, etc
Oct 16 09:23:24 <languish> nod
Oct 16 09:23:36 <languish> it'll be a fun ride
Oct 16 09:23:41 <umdk1d3> and the key would be *not* taking just any apps
Oct 16 09:23:49 <umdk1d3> only letting quality stuff in, and keeping it simple
Oct 16 09:24:09 <umdk1d3> maybe like a bundle type think
Oct 16 09:24:12 <muthu_> who decides quality?
Oct 16 09:24:24 <umdk1d3> but you could kinda offer bundles even using market i suppose
Oct 16 09:24:37 <umdk1d3> because i assume there will be intents to launch into a specific app
Oct 16 09:24:48 <umdk1d3> *specific app's entry in market
Oct 16 09:25:18 <languish> muthu_, there will be some glaring differences between quality apps and non
Oct 16 09:25:30 <muthu_> how?
Oct 16 09:25:38 <languish> over time, user reviews will determin the wash outs
Oct 16 09:25:50 <languish> well for example, apps that cause conflicts
Oct 16 09:25:52 <muthu_> hmm
Oct 16 09:25:57 <languish> apps with poor UI
Oct 16 09:26:05 <languish> wouldn't be quality
Oct 16 09:26:06 <umdk1d3> but i think the user ratings can only help so much
Oct 16 09:26:17 <languish> umdk1d3, that's why i said, over time
Oct 16 09:26:35 <muthu_> if there's 1000's of apps
Oct 16 09:26:35 <languish> initally apps would be judged based on the individual sites review process
Oct 16 09:26:36 <umdk1d3> well, i mean seprate from that, good-rated apps can become stale over time
Oct 16 09:26:43 <umdk1d3> i could see something like digg maybe
Oct 16 09:26:45 <muthu_> wonder how an user can find what's good or bad
Oct 16 09:27:03 <languish> eventually, there will be sites a user will trust
Oct 16 09:27:08 <muthu_> yeah, market is digg like
Oct 16 09:27:12 <languish> it'll take time for those to wash out
Oct 16 09:27:31 <muthu_> latest, popular, favorites
Oct 16 09:27:34 <muthu_> featured
Oct 16 09:27:53 <muthu_> so for example popular, featured etc., might have some limits
Oct 16 09:27:54 <languish> does google have some type of certification process/program for apps?
Oct 16 09:28:00 <DarkriftX> featured implies "the author paid me $50 to post this on front page" type of deal
Oct 16 09:28:02 <umdk1d3> languish: nope
Oct 16 09:28:10 <languish> I'm sure certification groups will pop up
Oct 16 09:28:14 <muthu_> DarkriftX: exactly
Oct 16 09:28:18 <muthu_> kinda sponsored
Oct 16 09:28:20 <DarkriftX> i want to stay away from that
Oct 16 09:28:34 <DarkriftX> then it becomes a bid way, not ratings
Oct 16 09:28:38 <DarkriftX> bid war*
Oct 16 09:28:40 <languish> nod
Oct 16 09:28:49 <languish> that's part of the vetting process for sites
Oct 16 09:28:56 <muthu_> yeah, and market will make money
Oct 16 09:29:06 <DarkriftX> i want users to be able to come, find the apps they want and download them. not have to search 12 different sites
Oct 16 09:29:27 <languish> if someone's taking money to push apps, instead of an honest review process. and the app they push is crap.. the site will lose user confidence
Oct 16 09:29:57 <DarkriftX> featured apps on my site would be apps that get massive attention in a forum post or something close
Oct 16 09:30:02 <languish> like, engadget is fun to read.. and I love the site.. but I take anything they say with a a dumptruck of salt
Oct 16 09:30:25 <languish> they're just a bit too apple-loving for me
Oct 16 09:30:58 <DarkriftX> and umdk1d3 let me know which apps of yours you want removed
Oct 16 09:31:02 <languish> and they don't correct all the inaccuracies of their articles at times
Oct 16 09:31:02 <DarkriftX> or edited
Oct 16 09:31:33 <DarkriftX> i dont mind links to authors sites, I just havent had time... i copied and pasted what i could find for basic descriptions for now
Oct 16 09:31:36 <languish> DarkriftX, put up a section that lists but doesn't host, apps that have been requested for removal.
Oct 16 09:31:51 <languish> that way you remain a source for info
Oct 16 09:31:58 <languish> without pissing off those devs
Oct 16 09:32:04 <umdk1d3> also
Oct 16 09:32:29 <umdk1d3> DarkriftX: are most of the apks you have signed correctly by their original devs?
Oct 16 09:32:40 <umdk1d3> remember that the devices are going to be much more picky about signatures
Oct 16 09:32:53 <umdk1d3> most of those apks prolly still have dev sigs, which will expire in the next year
Oct 16 09:33:08 <DarkriftX> im hoping they will all be updated by then
Oct 16 09:33:27 <languish> that might be a good field to add
Oct 16 09:33:33 <languish> "signature confirmed"
Oct 16 09:33:35 <DarkriftX> im not creating an archive, just the latest version of each download
Oct 16 09:33:37 <DarkriftX> yes
Oct 16 09:34:12 <languish> later on it may not be so necessary, but in the first year of android it will
Oct 16 09:34:17 <DarkriftX> yeah
Oct 16 09:34:32 <DarkriftX> im still waiting on users to download, comment etc on what works and what doesnt
Oct 16 09:34:58 <DarkriftX> im trying to make myself wait a while to get an android device, but i might splurge soon for the g1
Oct 16 09:35:06 <DarkriftX> so for now it will be user tested
Oct 16 09:35:10 <languish> nod
Oct 16 09:35:15 <DarkriftX> and emu of course
Oct 16 09:36:30 <DarkriftX> i want to add fields to each download to rate specifics of each, like: installation, ease of use, features all with a 1-5 star rating
Oct 16 09:36:52 <DarkriftX> install 4/5 ease of use 5/5, features 1/5 etc
Oct 16 09:39:31 <DarkriftX> ill make a form where devs can request removal, only thing i would require is email reply from domain that app comes from, or link to something on their site saying they dont want their files hosted elsewhere. would that be acceptable for most devs?
Oct 16 09:40:36 <languish> dark, indicate the email should come from the contact address on the devs site
Oct 16 09:40:47 <languish> and when you get it, check the headers
Oct 16 09:40:52 <languish> make sure it's not spoofed
Oct 16 09:41:20 <DarkriftX> what id do is send an email to the address at that domain and require a reply
Oct 16 09:41:30 <DarkriftX> that would prove they can recieve email there
Oct 16 09:41:30 <languish> nod
Oct 16 09:41:38 <umdk1d3> or just a link with random md5 or something
Oct 16 09:41:49 <umdk1d3> automation makes the world spin  ;)
Oct 16 09:41:52 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 16 09:41:57 <umdk1d3> grr im starving, /me goes to store
Oct 16 09:42:05 <DarkriftX> later
Oct 16 09:42:08 <DarkriftX> almost bed time for me
Oct 16 09:42:14 <umdk1d3> heh 4am here
Oct 16 09:42:24 <DarkriftX> feel free to register and comment on my forum ;)
Oct 16 09:42:37 <DarkriftX> id love to have some developer released apps
Oct 16 09:43:27 <languish> l8r
Oct 16 09:43:35 <languish> hrm
Oct 16 09:43:36 <languish> food
Oct 16 09:43:39 <languish> damn you
Oct 16 09:45:18 <languish> DarkriftX
Oct 16 09:45:23 <DarkriftX> ?
Oct 16 09:45:25 <languish> you spelled submit as sumbit
Oct 16 09:45:42 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 16 09:45:44 <languish> over the button :)
Oct 16 09:45:56 <DarkriftX> fixed
Oct 16 09:46:30 <languish> :)
Oct 16 09:46:42 <DarkriftX> good catch lol
Oct 16 09:49:20 <DarkriftX> ok, its bedtime
Oct 16 09:49:23 <DarkriftX> thx for the input guys
Oct 16 09:49:33 <languish> l8r man, good luck with the site
Oct 16 09:49:34 <DarkriftX> ill let you know how its going in a week or 2
Oct 16 09:49:36 <DarkriftX> thx
Oct 16 09:51:30 <languish> ah crap
Oct 16 09:51:54 <languish> I did register my usual nick on freenode, and have no idea what email address I registered it with
Oct 16 09:52:01 * languish ungenius
Oct 16 09:55:30 <DarkriftX> an oper can tell you
Oct 16 09:57:03 <languish> nod, I may end up having to ask
Oct 16 09:57:09 <languish> thanks
Oct 16 10:14:22 <umdk1d3> well wbxml officially sucks
Oct 16 10:14:33 <umdk1d3> at least libwbxml
Oct 16 10:38:13 <umdk1d3> loool im sshing at a stoplite
Oct 16 10:38:27 <muthu_> nice
Oct 16 10:38:34 <umdk1d3> yay gprs
Oct 16 10:38:39 <languish> heh
Oct 16 10:38:41 <muthu_> look for any nearby patrols ;)
Oct 16 10:39:05 <languish> now to ssh from a stop light using txt2voice and voice commands
Oct 16 10:39:08 <languish> :|
Oct 16 10:39:11 <umdk1d3> thats why ya got cruise ctl
Oct 16 10:39:36 <umdk1d3> lol im txting an dringng 3
Oct 16 10:39:36 <umdk1d3> 25mph
Oct 16 11:51:07 <JoeBrain> hrmmm read that as you're txting & drinking; not a good idea either
Oct 16 11:51:41 <languish> google txt goggles :/
Oct 16 12:15:54 <umdk1d3> it was driving :P
Oct 16 12:40:46 <dd94300> PC Word G1 Review: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/152339/the_g1_is_no_iphone_but_android_has_promise.html
Oct 16 12:43:45 <Dougie187> theres one at engadget too
Oct 16 12:45:14 <languish> likely not news in here, but engadged's saying there's a google controlled remote application kil switch
Oct 16 12:45:16 <languish> *kill
Oct 16 12:45:46 <languish> now, does google alone control it, or does t-mobile have that ability too
Oct 16 12:46:05 <languish> and if tmo doesn't want an app on their network.. like say.. skype...
Oct 16 12:46:16 <languish> can they enforce a remote kill
Oct 16 12:46:29 * languish not happy about this news
Oct 16 12:47:52 <dd94300> sorry but what is kill switch?
Oct 16 12:48:56 <tric> languish: and this is proven by? any source? or just a rumor?
Oct 16 12:53:46 <Dougie187> languish: google said they would use it if an app on your phone violated the developer agreement.
Oct 16 12:54:08 <Dougie187> so basically if you had an app that was against the ts and cs of the SDK i would assume.
Oct 16 12:54:23 <Dougie187> it also said that they would try to get your money back for your phone
Oct 16 12:54:43 <Dougie187> and they mentioned that with the app store, you can "return" any app within 24 hours for a full refund.
Oct 16 12:55:12 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/google-implemented-an-android-kill-switch-those-rascals/
Oct 16 12:58:54 <languish> Dougie187, if a kill switch exists, some company is going to attempt legal action at some point to get google to use it beyond currently stated intent
Oct 16 12:59:17 <Dougie187> I don't think it will be easy to do though.
Oct 16 12:59:26 <languish> also, does the kill switch work on apps NOT purchased from the *google* apple store?
Oct 16 12:59:30 <Dougie187> and i can't imagine google doing that a lot.
Oct 16 12:59:46 <languish> Dougie187, easy or not, the path shouldn't exist.
Oct 16 12:59:54 <languish> no, not a lot
Oct 16 13:00:12 <languish> but if it happens one time inappropriately, that's one time too often
Oct 16 13:00:50 <Dougie187> languish: i guess its something you'd have to live with.
Oct 16 13:00:52 <Dougie187> its not a huge deal
Oct 16 13:01:06 <Dougie187> I can't imagine google just using it for anything.
Oct 16 13:01:17 <Dougie187> having some company request the use of it or whatever.
Oct 16 13:01:17 <languish> I disagree. I think it is a big deal.
Oct 16 13:01:24 <languish> And google is a corporation
Oct 16 13:01:35 <Dougie187> I don't especially since they are going to help try to get your money back for your phone.
Oct 16 13:01:45 <Dougie187> they are just saying, don't use things your not supposed to.
Oct 16 13:01:53 <languish> I don't assume what they'll do. I assume if they have the power to do it, they may be forced to use it
Oct 16 13:01:58 <Dougie187> Apple has one, and they are far less nice about how it works.
Oct 16 13:02:01 <languish> look at how google operates in other countries
Oct 16 13:02:15 <languish> i don't care about apple
Oct 16 13:02:19 <languish> I don't like apple much
Oct 16 13:02:21 <Dougie187> other countries like what?
Oct 16 13:02:25 <Dougie187> Lol i don't like apple eihter.
Oct 16 13:02:27 <Dougie187> either*
Oct 16 13:03:01 <languish> I do like google's services, but I do not like a remote kill capability for applications on my device
Oct 16 13:03:13 <Dougie187> i don't think its for applications.
Oct 16 13:03:16 <Dougie187> i think its for your phone.
Oct 16 13:03:17 <languish> the carrier can disconnect service. but they should not have remote access to anything on my device
Oct 16 13:03:23 <Dougie187> from my understanding.. it basically bricks your phone.
Oct 16 13:03:29 <languish> no
Oct 16 13:03:39 <Dougie187> why would they have to get your money back for your phone then?
Oct 16 13:03:42 <languish> it's not a kill switch for the phone
Oct 16 13:03:51 <languish> it's a kill switch for an individual application on the phone
Oct 16 13:04:10 <languish> not for your phone, for an application you buy through the google market
Oct 16 13:04:18 <Dougie187> oh ok. so they give you the price back for your application.
Oct 16 13:04:25 <Dougie187> well then its probably just for applications bought from the app store.
Oct 16 13:04:26 <languish> no
Oct 16 13:04:39 <Dougie187> Google then claims that it will make "reasonable efforts to recover the purchase price of the product ... from the original developer on your behalf."
Oct 16 13:04:40 <languish> they *try* to get your money back from the developer
Oct 16 13:04:47 <Dougie187> sure.
Oct 16 13:04:52 <languish> they don't automatically refund your money if they kill an app on you
Oct 16 13:05:04 <Dougie187> yeah, but they try to get your money back.
Oct 16 13:05:08 <Dougie187> thats better than nothing.
Oct 16 13:05:09 <languish> so what?
Oct 16 13:05:17 <languish> They have the ability to kill apps on my device.
Oct 16 13:05:28 <Dougie187> an app that isn't supposed to be there.
Oct 16 13:05:34 <Dougie187> I would assume its only apps from the app store though.
Oct 16 13:05:36 <languish> I'd like to know if they can kill apps that are NOT purchased through the google app market
Oct 16 13:05:51 <Dougie187> I would assume not. personally.
Oct 16 13:05:58 <languish> if they have remote access to my hardware, I'm not happy
Oct 16 13:06:10 <ttuttle> http://kankky.apina.biz:8003/9400.jpg
Oct 16 13:06:15 <languish> beyond what I explicitly allow that is
Oct 16 13:06:34 <tric> and i wonder if its legal in all countries
Oct 16 13:06:43 <Dougie187> i think its for a case like this. Lets say some developer makes an app that violates their developer agreement. Then they dump it into the app store, and 20000 people download it. Then google realizes that it violates the developer agreement, rips it from the store, and kills the app on everyones phones.
Oct 16 13:07:18 <languish> ttuttle, well, when you buy a mac, you're really paying for the next 3 or 4 macs you return and they replace on the spot
Oct 16 13:07:24 <languish> :|
Oct 16 13:07:30 <ttuttle> languish: heh
Oct 16 13:07:40 <ttuttle> languish: I presume you've had a less-than-reliable experience with one?
Oct 16 13:07:58 <ttuttle> languish: (We have a lab here with some Macs approaching 3 years old, and the failure rate is 3-5% per WEEK.)
Oct 16 13:08:10 <languish> personally, no. Have I helped others with their less than reliable expeiriences, yes.
Oct 16 13:08:15 <languish> *experiences
Oct 16 13:08:33 <languish> ttuttle, lol
Oct 16 13:08:45 <ttuttle> languish: ah
Oct 16 13:09:49 <Dougie187> languish: either way, i personally don't think its a huge deal. and i think in using one of the phones you are allowing that access to your phone.
Oct 16 13:10:28 <languish> Dougie187, yes, I assume that's how it works. However, having that capability, say some patent troll company whines to the courts about an app that violates their patent, and even though it's an "obvious" idea, and should never have been covered by a patent, the court issues the C&D
Oct 16 13:11:05 <languish> does that mean the app that's completely legitimate, will get killed over an inappropriate application of the law?
Oct 16 13:11:13 <ttuttle> Yeah, the trouble with having that feature is that it may get used in bad ways.
Oct 16 13:11:19 <languish> or worse, google determins an app is "immoral"
Oct 16 13:11:21 <ttuttle> I hope Google reserves it only for truly malicious apps.
Oct 16 13:11:22 <languish> and they kill it
Oct 16 13:11:35 <languish> google may not have a choice
Oct 16 13:11:37 <Dougie187> ttuttle: it is my understanding that they will, but who knows.
Oct 16 13:11:39 <languish> that's my point
Oct 16 13:11:41 <tric> well, is there such a feature, or is it only in those legal statements?
Oct 16 13:11:58 <languish> tric, supposedly there is such a feature.
Oct 16 13:12:24 <languish> it's unlikely google would publish said legal statements without one
Oct 16 13:13:08 <ttuttle> languish: Have you seen some legal statements?
Oct 16 13:13:09 <Dougie187> tric there is a feature.
Oct 16 13:13:28 <ttuttle> languish: When I signed up with American Airlines, they required me to agree that I wouldn't upload viruses using their frequent-flier program site. WTF?
Oct 16 13:13:49 <Dougie187> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=Software&articleId=9117279&taxonomyId=18&pageNumber=1
Oct 16 13:13:56 <dd94300> that is funny................
Oct 16 13:14:55 <Dougie187> ttuttle: my opinion of it, is that it will not very likely get used in a "bad way" because that would make it hard for google to maintain a good reputation with the user community.
Oct 16 13:15:08 <Dougie187> if they went around killing every app they felt like, noone would want an android phone.
Oct 16 13:15:33 <Dougie187> also, i would assume they could only tell what apps you have bought from the app store, so it would then be restricted to those apps.
Oct 16 13:16:16 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Yeah.  They very specifically want to avoid looking like Apple with the "Gee we do not like your app.  *ZAP*"
Oct 16 13:16:24 <Dougie187> yeah
Oct 16 13:16:31 <Dougie187> i think thats why they are going to try to get your money back and stuff.
Oct 16 13:16:39 <languish> There's another consideration. If the app is something you use to store important personal/business information...
Oct 16 13:16:42 <Dougie187> and you can get a full refund within 24 hours.
Oct 16 13:16:44 <languish> and google remote kills it
Oct 16 13:16:53 <languish> who cares about the refund
Oct 16 13:16:58 <tric> dougie: well, your link only assumes that there is one, because of this legal statement
Oct 16 13:16:59 <languish> what about the data
Oct 16 13:17:05 <ttuttle> languish: /me mutters something about the cloud.
Oct 16 13:17:20 <languish> the cloud doesn't back up everything
Oct 16 13:17:31 <ttuttle> languish: It should ;-)
Oct 16 13:17:47 <tric> i wonder if this "kill switch" will be open sourced ;)
Oct 16 13:17:54 <snadge> and what happens when someone decides to turn off your cloud.. or manipulate the contents of it to frame you for a crime you didnt commit
Oct 16 13:18:02 <languish> backups should be made as a stateful device image to my storage card
Oct 16 13:18:09 * snadge pats his tin foil hat
Oct 16 13:18:10 <ttuttle> snadge: Um...
Oct 16 13:18:23 <ttuttle> snadge: You are emphatically NOT the tarket market for the G1 then. ;-)
Oct 16 13:18:25 <Dougie187> snadge: lol.
Oct 16 13:18:33 <languish> "target
Oct 16 13:18:39 <languish> being the key word there
Oct 16 13:18:42 <ttuttle> languish: yeah
Oct 16 13:19:12 <languish> anywya, I've had 2 experiences where google has failed in the "do no evil" mantra
Oct 16 13:19:32 <languish> personal experiences
Oct 16 13:19:44 <Dougie187> languish: please elaborate.
Oct 16 13:19:47 <languish> sure
Oct 16 13:20:34 * ttuttle beta China and AdSense.
Oct 16 13:20:36 <snadge> i'll be getting a g1 phone.. just i won't be storing all of my personal data in the "cloud" .. im sure i'll be keeping local copies of my data, and not putting anything too sensitive on the net
Oct 16 13:20:53 <ttuttle> snadge: You can do that, but there's no other (provided) way to back it up.
Oct 16 13:21:16 <languish> I made a purchase with an online vendor, using google checkout.  The vendor claimed that because I used google checkout, the advertised price could not be met. Google Checkout help, was no help. They didn't understand the issue at all (some offshore support plebe I assume).
Oct 16 13:21:21 <snadge> but someone will write one surely.. or i could
Oct 16 13:21:40 <ttuttle> snadge: Yeah.  A SyncML client would probably be useful.
Oct 16 13:21:43 <snadge> should be able to back up to sd card, or usb, or whatever
Oct 16 13:21:55 <ttuttle> languish: Um, that's the vendor's fault.
Oct 16 13:22:15 <languish> Anyway, after repeatedly trying to have google address the issue, to no avail. I finally just used my business connections to get an exec at the online vendor to call me and settle it
Oct 16 13:22:46 <ttuttle> languish: Was it a "minimum price" thing, or they just didn't feel like giving you the lowest price for some reason?
Oct 16 13:22:49 <languish> ttuttle, yes it is the vendors fault, but I google checkout was my payment method and their excuse for not honoring the price.
Oct 16 13:23:10 <languish> ttuttle, they just didn't seem to like to have to accept google checkout
Oct 16 13:23:33 <Dougie187> thats pretty dumb, but i wouldn't fault google for that.
Oct 16 13:23:35 <languish> which is baffling as they offered it as a method of payment
Oct 16 13:23:44 <Dougie187> it is baffling.
Oct 16 13:24:01 <languish> well, in order to get my money back for the purchase, the vendor said I had to go through google checkout.
Oct 16 13:24:12 <languish> and google checkout claimed I had to go through the vendor
Oct 16 13:24:22 <languish> neither wanted to deal with the process of the refund
Oct 16 13:24:32 <languish> and google checkout DOES have policies addressing it
Oct 16 13:24:37 <languish> and they didn't follow their own policies
Oct 16 13:24:42 <languish> anyway
Oct 16 13:24:48 <languish> I got it settled.
Oct 16 13:24:52 <Dougie187> thats good.
Oct 16 13:24:59 <languish> and never used google checkout with that vendor again
Oct 16 13:25:08 <languish> secondly...
Oct 16 13:25:53 <languish> froogle (google shopping/product search) was being used to screw kids out of $
Oct 16 13:26:05 <languish> it was a scam a fake vendor was using
Oct 16 13:26:17 <languish> claiming to sell them low cost xboxs
Oct 16 13:26:25 <Dougie187> ok
Oct 16 13:26:55 <Dougie187> did you try to buy one?
Oct 16 13:27:12 <languish> I contacted google about it, and they really weren't interested. After working to get *someone* at google to even listen to the issue (emails were ignored), I finally got someone in PR to look in to it
Oct 16 13:27:17 <languish> they determined I was correct
Oct 16 13:27:23 <languish> no, I did not
Oct 16 13:27:31 <languish> I knew it was a scam, it was pretty obvious
Oct 16 13:27:40 <languish> but I knew kids that had fallen for it
Oct 16 13:28:18 <languish> the hassle, to get anyone at google to deal with google's services being misused for fraud was... well, that's evil in my book.
Oct 16 13:28:43 <languish> plus the pr guy offered me a t-shirt and hat for my effort, asked my size, and never sent them :|
Oct 16 13:28:53 <languish> bastard.
Oct 16 13:28:54 <languish> :D
Oct 16 13:29:19 <Dougie187> true, they should be more interested in fixing issues like that. and that does suck that you never received your shirt and hat.
Oct 16 13:29:35 <languish> anyway, google is just like any other company
Oct 16 13:29:47 <languish> and the longer they operate, the more they'll reflect it
Oct 16 13:29:49 <Dougie187> but keep in mind too, you were probably talking to some punk bottom feeder at google who doesn't care about his job at all.
Oct 16 13:30:08 <languish> Dougie187, incorrect
Oct 16 13:30:10 <tethridge> either that or he was in a hurry to go get some free food
Oct 16 13:30:17 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 16 13:30:32 <Dougie187> not the shirt guy. i mean the people who ignored you.
Oct 16 13:30:56 <languish> I was dealing with someone that handled...what's the term for wealthy stock investors...
Oct 16 13:31:01 <languish> ahh yeah
Oct 16 13:31:41 <Dougie187> either way.
Oct 16 13:31:42 <languish> well I made multiple attempts.. including contacting the corp offices and emailing various dept heads
Oct 16 13:32:05 <Dougie187> yeah but the dept heads emails probably get screened by someone else.
Oct 16 13:32:18 <languish> likely, but so many of them ignoring it?
Oct 16 13:32:31 <umdk1d3> hmm ars technica review was a tough read
Oct 16 13:32:46 <languish> sounds like they just don't have time or inclination to deal with anything negative with respects to google products
Oct 16 13:33:01 <languish> anyway
Oct 16 13:33:25 <languish> this is why I have no faith in their handling of this application kill switch
Oct 16 13:33:26 <Dougie187> my wife was actually just upset by youTube's top 10 videos.
Oct 16 13:33:54 <Dougie187> i guess they are basically soft-core porn. and she added the "Fun Bundle" to her google reader that contained them.
Oct 16 13:34:07 <Dougie187> but she didn't know it had them. and was upset when she saw what it was.
Oct 16 13:34:13 <languish> lol
Oct 16 13:34:27 <languish> there's nothing illegal about legal porn :|
Oct 16 13:34:38 <languish> at least in the US
Oct 16 13:34:49 <Dougie187> true, but some people don't like it, and most people expect some sort of disclosure of material.
Oct 16 13:34:49 <tethridge> that does sound like a "fun bundle"
Oct 16 13:35:07 <languish> Dougie187, so she never went to a news stand?
Oct 16 13:35:12 <Dougie187> tethridge: lol not when the other contents include Daily show clips and Colbert Report clips.
Oct 16 13:35:16 <Dougie187> languish: no.
Oct 16 13:35:17 <languish> No Playboy on the stand? or maxim?
Oct 16 13:35:25 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: it is not at all uncommon to find such media on mainstream internet sites
Oct 16 13:35:25 <Dougie187> languish: we don't have news stands here.
Oct 16 13:35:35 <languish> o.O
Oct 16 13:35:36 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: myspace for example, is full of shit like that
Oct 16 13:35:54 <Dougie187> yakischloba: lol one of the many reasons i don't use myspace.
Oct 16 13:35:55 <languish> heck, cnn sometimes has a racy shot or two
Oct 16 13:35:57 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: and honestly my mother might be offended but I'd expect anyone younger to be accustomed to it by now ;)
Oct 16 13:36:20 <Dougie187> yakischloba_: lol. well not everyone who is younger appreciates it like some of the other people.
Oct 16 13:36:32 * languish senses a religious individual
Oct 16 13:36:36 <Dougie187> lol nope.
Oct 16 13:36:39 <languish> lies
Oct 16 13:36:49 <Dougie187> not religious at all. hah I would never have married her if she was.
Oct 16 13:36:55 <tethridge> Dougie187, be sure to warn her to stay off redtube.com.  NSFW!
Oct 16 13:37:03 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: I don't "appreciate" it, I just try to passively ignore it and I accept it as a consequence of services provided to me for free
Oct 16 13:37:07 <languish> man, she must hate her email
Oct 16 13:37:28 <Dougie187> yakischloba_: as do i. i think she just expected something saying that you might want to be over 18 to add it.
Oct 16 13:37:38 <languish> then againm, google's pretty good at filtering spam
Oct 16 13:37:44 <Dougie187> especially from google.
Oct 16 13:38:04 <languish> were the chicks in it actually nude?
Oct 16 13:38:12 <languish> or just scantily clad and being sexy?
Oct 16 13:38:25 <Dougie187> i have no idea.
Oct 16 13:38:28 <languish> because youtube does have adult content controls
Oct 16 13:38:34 <Dougie187> i don't even think she knows either.
Oct 16 13:38:45 <Dougie187> i think she just saw the "Preview image" and got freaked out.
Oct 16 13:38:46 <languish> then she may be wanking over nothing
Oct 16 13:39:14 <Dougie187> oh, it also wasn't the top 10 videos on youtube it was the top viewed videos on youtube.
Oct 16 13:39:15 <yakischloba_> I can't even find a top 10 videos section on youtube
Oct 16 13:39:16 <languish> this nation is uptight enough as it is
Oct 16 13:39:18 <yakischloba_> oh
Oct 16 13:39:18 <yakischloba_> ok
Oct 16 13:39:34 <Dougie187> and it was what google reader picked up for those
Oct 16 13:39:40 <languish> getting uppset over the human body is just nuts
Oct 16 13:40:02 <Dougie187> lol languish some people might say getting upset over an android application kill switch is just nuts.
Oct 16 13:40:24 <languish> and android kill switch is a potential inhibition to my freedoms
Oct 16 13:40:26 <languish> *an
Oct 16 13:40:37 <languish> not to mention, it threatens use of my device as I wish
Oct 16 13:40:41 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 16 13:40:45 <languish> someone seeing bare flesh doesn't
Oct 16 13:40:47 <Dougie187> everyone has their reasons.
Oct 16 13:40:52 <yakischloba_> lets not have this discussion. everyone has their personal views about sexuality and they are best left outside of here because they are not relevant
Oct 16 13:41:04 <Dougie187> yakischloba_ i think thats my point.
Oct 16 13:41:17 <languish> yakischloba, where do you think the concept of open source comes from?
Oct 16 13:41:21 <Dougie187> everyone offended by different things, so you can't really say "you dumb for being offended by that"
Oct 16 13:41:23 <languish> support of our freedoms
Oct 16 13:41:31 <zer0her0> Dougie187: you're dumb for saying that
Oct 16 13:41:32 <zer0her0> :-D
Oct 16 13:41:41 <Dougie187> zer0her0: thank you.
Oct 16 13:41:43 <yakischloba_> but on the same note I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that youtube has any responsibility to shield or censor content like that
Oct 16 13:41:48 <zer0her0> glad to be of service
Oct 16 13:41:50 * zer0her0 tips hat
Oct 16 13:42:05 <yakischloba_> the Internet is a crazy place and not for the feint of heart ;)
Oct 16 13:42:08 <languish> yakischloba, they do. and they do censor what they're required to
Oct 16 13:42:13 <languish> or at least they try
Oct 16 13:42:24 <Dougie187> yakischloba_: true.
Oct 16 13:42:35 <Dougie187> languish: i think it was she wanted more info through google reader about it.
Oct 16 13:42:48 <languish> heh
Oct 16 13:43:06 <yakischloba_> shrug. I'm not the guy either who writes a letter to his local grocery store demanding that they  carry product XYZ and thinking that they have some obligation to do what I want
Oct 16 13:43:33 <yakischloba_> The way I look at it, organizations or people offer services and I can take them or leave them
Oct 16 13:43:43 <Dougie187> yakischloba_ true.
Oct 16 13:43:50 <yakischloba_> and they don't have any responsibility to conform to my whim
Oct 16 13:43:57 <languish> 'eh, some thinks are so in your face, it becomes intolerable.  youtube however, not so
Oct 16 13:44:03 <languish> *things
Oct 16 13:44:51 <Dougie187> either way.
Oct 16 13:44:51 <languish> I don't like the guys standing on street corners shoving porn postcards in my face
Oct 16 13:45:02 <windowsrefund> languish, the term "Open Source" comes from an attempt to exploit the momentum of the Free Software movement without discussing the ethics
Oct 16 13:45:03 <Dougie187> yeah. like they do everywhere in vegas.
Oct 16 13:45:06 <Dougie187> they had that shit to kids.
Oct 16 13:45:23 <languish> who determins ethics?
Oct 16 13:45:31 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 16 13:45:34 <windowsrefund> as it relates to software?
Oct 16 13:45:38 <languish> morality, ethics...
Oct 16 13:45:40 <Dougie187> i like how thats the word you picked out of that.
Oct 16 13:45:44 <languish> as it relates to anything
Oct 16 13:45:56 <languish> I know how ethics get defined
Oct 16 13:45:59 <Dougie187> ethics is 100% subjective.
Oct 16 13:46:03 <windowsrefund> as it relates to software, the Free Software movement has very clearly defined freedoms 0-3
Oct 16 13:46:10 <languish> right
Oct 16 13:46:24 <languish> and who are the free software movement?
Oct 16 13:46:56 <windowsrefund> languish, see that's the shame of it all. The fact that you speak about "Open Source", yet have no idea what the Free Software movement is
Oct 16 13:46:58 <windowsrefund> fsf.org
Oct 16 13:47:01 <windowsrefund> gnu.org
Oct 16 13:47:02 <windowsrefund> GPL
Oct 16 13:47:04 <windowsrefund> RMS
Oct 16 13:47:05 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 16 13:47:14 <ttuttle> Oh god, not this.
Oct 16 13:47:18 <languish> it's like asking who the steering commitee for postgresql is
Oct 16 13:47:30 <Dougie187> ttuttle: you working on any new apps yet?
Oct 16 13:47:34 <ttuttle> Dougie187: yep
Oct 16 13:47:36 <Dougie187> you get started on that fax receiver?
Oct 16 13:47:50 <languish> it's a few nice guys who just want to dev their code. and a few other guys who are complete assholes who want to make money
Oct 16 13:47:57 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: i'm excited for next week :)
Oct 16 13:48:05 <Dougie187> yakischloba_: you getting a new phone?
Oct 16 13:48:06 <umdk1d3> RMS \o/
Oct 16 13:48:11 <ttuttle> Dougie187: I told you, it's not possible with the current SDK.
Oct 16 13:48:11 <yakischloba_> yeah
Oct 16 13:48:15 <yakischloba_> a certain type in particular
Oct 16 13:48:21 <Dougie187> ttuttle: try to get them to add this. http://java.sun.com/products/jtapi/
Oct 16 13:48:21 <yakischloba_> some google thing
Oct 16 13:48:28 <umdk1d3> RMS is my homeboy
Oct 16 13:48:30 <Dougie187> yakischloba_: i haven't head about it. what is it?
Oct 16 13:48:40 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: droid something or other
Oct 16 13:48:44 <ttuttle> RMS is a jerk.  I've met him in person, and he's perhaps one of the worst spokespeople ever.
Oct 16 13:48:47 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: supposed to be the hot new shit
Oct 16 13:48:53 <Dougie187> yakischloba_: ohh. sounds interesting. please go on.
Oct 16 13:49:05 <Dougie187> I'm getting a new digital camera for my birthday.
Oct 16 13:49:07 <ttuttle> He's got cool ideas, and I'm happy he started the free software movement, but he doesn't know how to talk with people in a reasonable manner.
Oct 16 13:49:08 <Dougie187> it comes next week.
Oct 16 13:49:09 <windowsrefund> many of us have met RMS. He's a living legend that deserves much respect
Oct 16 13:49:10 <ttuttle> Dougie187: yay
Oct 16 13:49:16 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: hehe. I just hope they don't sell out or something, i wont be able to get there til afternoon
Oct 16 13:49:27 <Dougie187> yakischloba_: you know they will.
Oct 16 13:49:40 <Dougie187> they will probably only have like 10 per store.
Oct 16 13:49:42 <languish> Something I've found about living legends. Most deserve their reputations. both good, and bad.
Oct 16 13:49:50 <Dougie187> since 1.5 million have already sold.
Oct 16 13:49:50 <yakischloba_> Dougie187: hopefully perhaps they will have some the next day or something..I'll have Thursday off, so I can go hunting if need be
Oct 16 13:49:51 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: So, I respect him for his work in free software, but I feel that in interacting with people, he does the movement a disservice.
Oct 16 13:49:58 <windowsrefund> ttuttle, wrong
Oct 16 13:50:03 <languish> lol
Oct 16 13:50:07 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: Well, right, for at least one person.
Oct 16 13:50:08 <umdk1d3> aww but hes so cute  ^.^   loool
Oct 16 13:50:16 <windowsrefund> ttuttle, if he makes a person think about the issue, he's doing his job
Oct 16 13:50:21 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: Um, wrong.
Oct 16 13:50:33 <yakischloba_> ttuttle, don't feed this fire ;)
Oct 16 13:50:44 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: He didn't make them think about the issue, he made them walk away because he started yelling at them for saying "freeware" by mistake.  (Yeah, I know it was wrong, but he was a total ass about correcting her.)
Oct 16 13:50:46 <Dougie187> ttuttle: have you heard about this new droid whatchamacallit?
Oct 16 13:50:47 <windowsrefund> the free software movement isn't about making buddies. We've got facebook for that
Oct 16 13:50:50 <umdk1d3> yay flamewar!  =D
Oct 16 13:50:59 <windowsrefund> FS is about freedoms 0-3
Oct 16 13:51:03 <languish> windowsrefund, there's getting someone to think about an issue, and getting someone to think negatively about the issue because your position is being presented offensively.
Oct 16 13:51:39 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: Sure, I know that.  But if you guys presented it in a less fanatical fashion, you'd actually get more supporters.
Oct 16 13:51:58 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: Saying "we don't want to make buddies" is a great way to ensure nobody cares after a while.
Oct 16 13:52:04 <Dougie187> its like the guy on the corner who throws bibles at you because you sin.
Oct 16 13:52:10 <ttuttle> Dougie187: exactly
Oct 16 13:52:18 <windowsrefund> ttuttle, sounds like the "Open Source" movement would be a better fit for you
Oct 16 13:52:20 <Dougie187> and he has the bull horn and pours holy water on you.
Oct 16 13:52:34 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: No, I do know the difference, and I like the idea of free software.
Oct 16 13:52:40 <Disconnect> my phone finally has a tracking #
Oct 16 13:52:43 <Disconnect> :)
Oct 16 13:52:46 <languish> windowsrefund, put it this way.. when you're fanatical about the issue, we see you as being just like those xbox fanatics, or apple iphone fanatics that just offend everyone that doesn't *already* agree with them
Oct 16 13:52:49 <Dougie187> Disconnect: you pre-ordered?
Oct 16 13:52:54 <ttuttle> Disconnect: congrats
Oct 16 13:53:09 <languish> hrm
Oct 16 13:53:10 <windowsrefund> fanatical is just a silly word. We could easily replace it with "conviction"
Oct 16 13:53:12 * languish hits ups.com
Oct 16 13:53:36 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: So, define "fanatical" as "so enthusiastic that most people who interact with them find it disturbing".
Oct 16 13:53:47 <languish> windowsrefund, there's a reason the word fantatcism exists, and convictionism doesn't.
Oct 16 13:54:06 <languish> *fanaticism
Oct 16 13:55:16 <windowsrefund> tuttle, do you support freedoms 0-3?
Oct 16 13:55:22 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: Yes.
Oct 16 13:55:26 <windowsrefund> ok then
Oct 16 13:55:31 <windowsrefund> you're part of the solution
Oct 16 13:56:09 <languish> that type of talk is nazism
Oct 16 13:56:14 <yakischloba_> spare us
Oct 16 13:56:17 <yakischloba_> it's too early for this shit
Oct 16 13:56:28 <windowsrefund> no
Oct 16 13:56:39 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 16 13:56:43 <windowsrefund> the only question is whether or not it's too late
Oct 16 13:56:45 <windowsrefund> :)
Oct 16 13:56:52 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: It's too late.
Oct 16 13:56:54 <languish> What the fanatics do, is annoy everyone that's not like them, until they all leave
Oct 16 13:56:59 <Dougie187> i think i just got freedoms 0-3 thrown at my face.
Oct 16 13:57:00 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: Everyone and their dog runs Windows.
Oct 16 13:57:11 <languish> so what I'm going to do now is employ /ignore windowsrefund
Oct 16 13:57:16 <ttuttle> windowsrefund: It's tragic, but likely irreversible.
Oct 16 13:57:18 <languish> done.
Oct 16 13:57:32 <windowsrefund> ttuttle, it's not about "windows"
Oct 16 13:57:33 <Dougie187> soon ttuttle is going to have to join that list unfortunately.
Oct 16 13:57:39 <ttuttle> Dougie187: nonono please don't
Oct 16 13:57:42 <windowsrefund> there's a bigger war being fought
Oct 16 13:57:42 * ttuttle stops.
Oct 16 13:57:45 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 16 13:58:06 <languish> anyway, I have grave concerns and more questions about this application kill switch. Particularly, can they kill apps that weren't downloaded from the google app store.
Oct 16 13:58:19 <Dougie187> languish: i said i don't think so.
Oct 16 13:58:27 <Dougie187> im not sure though.
Oct 16 13:58:31 <languish> Dougie187, what you *think* is immaterial to a solid answer
Oct 16 13:58:41 <Dougie187> but from my understanding no, especially since it is in the Terms of service of the app store.
Oct 16 13:58:45 <Dougie187> not the phone.
Oct 16 13:58:52 <languish> I'm not seeking guesswork. I'm seeking a factual answer.
Oct 16 13:59:03 <ttuttle> languish: Nobody has one yet.
Oct 16 13:59:10 <languish> ttuttle, incorrect
Oct 16 13:59:16 <Dougie187> and it has to violate the developer distribution agreement with the app store.
Oct 16 13:59:21 <ttuttle> languish: Well, nobody here is willing to share it, then.
Oct 16 13:59:22 <languish> quite a number of people have g1's
Oct 16 13:59:27 <Dougie187> so if you don't use the app store you are not required to abide by those.
Oct 16 13:59:35 <Dougie187> thus, they are not allowed to kill an app
Oct 16 13:59:36 <ttuttle> languish: I do.  How do I know if it can kill random apps?
Oct 16 13:59:52 <languish> ttuttle, i don't know. But we have some google devs in the channel.
Oct 16 14:00:00 <languish> Hopefully they'll be able to tell us.
Oct 16 14:00:05 <Dougie187> languish: ttuttle was one.
Oct 16 14:00:07 <ttuttle> languish: Sure, but until Google says anything public, they're probalby not allowed to say.
Oct 16 14:00:11 <languish> "was"
Oct 16 14:00:12 <languish> ?
Oct 16 14:00:16 <ttuttle> languish: intern
Oct 16 14:00:20 <languish> ahh
Oct 16 14:00:27 <ttuttle> languish: I have no knowledge of the kill switch other than its existence.
Oct 16 14:00:28 <Dougie187> languish: just look up the app store terms of service.
Oct 16 14:00:32 <languish> ttuttle, nod
Oct 16 14:00:37 <ttuttle> Also, %s/app store/market/g
Oct 16 14:00:54 <languish> lol
Oct 16 14:01:05 <ttuttle> It's a prettier name ;-)
Oct 16 14:01:10 <languish> agreed
Oct 16 14:01:10 <Dougie187> ttuttle: don't muthu me.
Oct 16 14:01:19 <ttuttle> Dougie187: ?
Oct 16 14:01:24 <Dougie187> thats something he would do.
Oct 16 14:01:27 <ttuttle> Oh.  Sorry.
Oct 16 14:01:31 <Dougie187> np
Oct 16 14:01:45 <Dougie187> where can we get the TS for the market?
Oct 16 14:01:53 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Dunno.
Oct 16 14:01:58 <languish> then again, Dougie187 refers to open source software as "freeware"
Oct 16 14:02:02 <languish> lulz
Oct 16 14:02:04 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Get a G1, turn it on, tap "Market".
Oct 16 14:02:06 <Foxdie> <--- excited ^_^
Oct 16 14:02:12 <ttuttle> Foxdie: Getting a G1?
Oct 16 14:02:18 <languish> Foxdie, me too buddy
Oct 16 14:02:20 <Dougie187> ttuttle: are the terms of service in there?
Oct 16 14:02:23 <Foxdie> Hopefully
Oct 16 14:02:30 <ttuttle> Dougie187: There's a click-through agreement of sorts.
Oct 16 14:02:33 <ttuttle> Dougie187: I don't know if it covers that.
Oct 16 14:02:35 <ttuttle> Foxdie: Nice!
Oct 16 14:02:39 <Dougie187> read it.
Oct 16 14:02:40 <ttuttle> Foxdie: /me hopes you like it ;-)
Oct 16 14:02:51 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Hrm, I've clicked through already (several days ago).
Oct 16 14:02:55 * ttuttle really has to go.
Oct 16 14:02:57 <ttuttle> Be back later.
Oct 16 14:03:01 <Dougie187> ok
Oct 16 14:03:01 <Foxdie> I've always been up with mobile computing and technology, especially since I used to work for Vodafone, but I don't think I've eagerly anticipated a handset more than the G1
Oct 16 14:03:11 <Foxdie> take care ttuttle
Oct 16 14:03:35 <languish> l8r
Oct 16 14:05:26 <Foxdie> can someone explain to me how android works behind the scenes?
Oct 16 14:05:38 <Foxdie> is it essentially a embedded linux system?
Oct 16 14:05:47 <Disconnect> there's a ton of highlevel docs, but i can give a brief version :)
Oct 16 14:06:04 <Disconnect> embedded linux, framebuffer, custom daemons, custom java jvm.
Oct 16 14:06:12 <Foxdie> will it come with a console to acces lower functionality, will there be an ssh client / server etc? :)
Oct 16 14:06:53 <Disconnect> "come with" ..? no. and the jury is still out on whether (eg) adb shell from the sdk works
Oct 16 14:07:19 <Disconnect> people have already written ssh clients and such
Oct 16 14:09:21 <Foxdie> awesome, one of the things I'd like to use android / G1 for is to administer a series of linux servers when I'm on the road
Oct 16 14:09:34 <Foxdie> but it'd be nice to have a local, usable sshd as well
Oct 16 14:09:49 <Foxdie> build software for it too if possible with a cross compiler
Oct 16 14:10:14 <dd94300> does anybody know how to get fancy buttons like in calculator application?
Oct 16 14:17:50 <zhobbs> dd94300: I was wondering the same thing
Oct 16 14:21:17 <dd94300> seems like they are using APNG framing after onClick event
Oct 16 14:21:45 <languish> hrm
Oct 16 14:21:47 <languish> actually
Oct 16 14:21:55 <languish> being able to ssh IN to my g1 would be nice
Oct 16 14:22:21 <languish> especially if I can access certain functionality through it
Oct 16 14:22:29 <languish> then again, ssh hijacking, not so fun
Oct 16 14:22:32 <languish> :\
Oct 16 14:22:40 <languish> we need an ssh3
Oct 16 14:23:04 <languish> oh shit
Oct 16 14:23:24 <languish> static ip's on a g1 would make me so happy. damn you limited cell carriers
Oct 16 14:23:40 <pi31415> is it easy to use an android device as a pda without paying a monthly phone fee?
Oct 16 14:23:55 <languish> pi31415, not yet.
Oct 16 14:24:02 <Foxdie> One thing I've found is T-Mo in the UK allow VPN connections over their GPRS / 3G network
Oct 16 14:24:10 <languish> after some pda style apps are dev'd, perhaps
Oct 16 14:24:13 <muthu_> hey, did someone say my name?
Oct 16 14:24:20 <Dougie187> nope
Oct 16 14:24:22 <muthu_> haha
Oct 16 14:24:30 <Foxdie> so if there was a VPN client on a G1, you could say, tunnel to a server and have a 1:1 NAT mapping, and have your own IP address :)
Oct 16 14:24:35 <muthu_> i'm going home now.. come back and talk to you :)
Oct 16 14:24:37 <languish> muthu_, unfortunately for you, it was only Dougie187. so when you say "someone" no, not really
Oct 16 14:24:46 <languish> l8r
Oct 16 14:24:49 <muthu_> l8r
Oct 16 14:24:52 <Foxdie> Anyone know if there's a VPN client for Android?
Oct 16 14:25:04 <pi31415> languish: my brother used his pda to check email and look things up on the web
Oct 16 14:25:11 <pi31415> languish: can android do webmail?
Oct 16 14:25:15 <languish> yes
Oct 16 14:25:33 <Foxdie> pi31415, no offense, he should really get one of the gazillion other devices out there that have wifi
Oct 16 14:25:34 <languish> pi31415, there are reviews of the g1, and android...
Oct 16 14:25:44 <Foxdie> tell him to look at the Asus EEE PC laptops
Oct 16 14:25:55 <pi31415> foxdie: you mean like a Dell mini instead of a Google android?
Oct 16 14:25:57 <Dougie187> pi31415: you should really go read some stuff about android.
Oct 16 14:26:02 <Foxdie> they're cheap, and will do most regular things
Oct 16 14:26:19 <Foxdie> surfing, music, email
Oct 16 14:26:44 <Dougie187> Foxdie: do you know if they have sd card slots on any of them?
Oct 16 14:26:52 <Foxdie> there isn't much point getting an android handset if you're not gonna get a data service with it, thats my impression anyway
Oct 16 14:26:57 <Foxdie> Dougie187, most do
Oct 16 14:27:01 <Foxdie> SDHC slots
Oct 16 14:27:11 <Dougie187> Foxdie: cool. thats helpful for the hdd size issues
Oct 16 14:27:14 <pi31415> Foxdie: my brother would check his email free wifi at the coffee shop
Oct 16 14:27:20 <wastrel> supposedly you'll be able to buy the hardware without a cell plan, for $400ish
Oct 16 14:27:22 <pi31415> Foxdie: does that count as data service?
Oct 16 14:27:31 <Dougie187> pi31415: look up an MID or a Netbook.
Oct 16 14:27:33 <Foxdie> pi31415, dell mini / eee pc come with built in wifi
Oct 16 14:27:36 <Dougie187> tell him to get an n810
Oct 16 14:27:52 <Foxdie> and the theory is you can buy a G1 with wifi and use that for the net connection
Oct 16 14:28:00 <Foxdie> but its a waste imho
Oct 16 14:28:06 <Dougie187> Foxdie: a total waste.
Oct 16 14:28:21 <pi31415> he doesn't need anything, i am just tossing it out as an example non-cell-plan use
Oct 16 14:28:35 <Dougie187> pi31415: look up n770 n800 or n810 if you want  something small
Oct 16 14:28:37 <Dougie187> or any MIDs
Oct 16 14:28:46 <Dougie187> or any UMPC
Oct 16 14:28:50 <Dougie187> err..
Oct 16 14:28:51 <languish> were all g1's supposed to be shipped 3-day?
Oct 16 14:28:54 <Dougie187> UPMCs?
Oct 16 14:28:59 <languish> because min was shipped ground
Oct 16 14:29:00 <Foxdie> pi31415, eee pc is about half the size of a normal laptop, has a good cpu in it, wifi, SD slot, it'll do everything he needs, can even run xp / vista if he needs it badly
Oct 16 14:29:02 <languish> *mine
Oct 16 14:29:06 <Dougie187> languish: well they are supposed to be here by wednesday
Oct 16 14:29:15 <Foxdie> umpc's are $rofl
Oct 16 14:29:18 <Foxdie> expensive
Oct 16 14:29:22 <pi31415> thank you for your time
Oct 16 14:29:23 <Dougie187> true.
Oct 16 14:29:40 <Dougie187> but they are tiny as hell
Oct 16 14:29:42 <languish> Dougie187, I know. but some people are getting 3-day shipping, and will have theirs by tomorrow/monday
Oct 16 14:29:48 <Foxdie> mind you, I admit I got a semi hearing about the sony UX series modded to have a ULV Core2Duo chip in it :)
Oct 16 14:29:54 <Dougie187> languish: some have shipped earlier than today though
Oct 16 14:30:08 <languish> I'm wondering what makes the difference between those who got 3-day, and those who got ground delivery
Oct 16 14:30:21 <Dougie187> Foxdie: that is pretty sweet.
Oct 16 14:30:32 <Dougie187> languish: maybe they paid for it?
Oct 16 14:30:37 <Foxdie> can't wait until the netbooks get the dual core atoms next year
Oct 16 14:30:43 <Foxdie> I might actually buy one
Oct 16 14:30:44 <languish> Dougie187, yes, but how. We were't given the option.
Oct 16 14:30:45 <Dougie187> hell yeah.
Oct 16 14:30:49 <Foxdie> but my next investment simply has to be a G1 :)
Oct 16 14:30:55 <languish> heh
Oct 16 14:31:01 <Dougie187> no G1 here...
Oct 16 14:31:02 <Dougie187> :(
Oct 16 14:31:06 <Dougie187> not until it's out on sprint.
Oct 16 14:31:14 <Foxdie> I hope they fix A2DP on it though, I have bluetooth stereo on my cars headunit, would be nice to not have lots of wires in my car
Oct 16 14:31:24 <benley> a2dp will show up sooner or later
Oct 16 14:31:38 <Foxdie> oh I have fait in that benley
Oct 16 14:31:43 <Foxdie> I just hope sooner :)
Oct 16 14:32:02 <Foxdie> G1's make-or-break will be its ability to self-update
Oct 16 14:32:07 <dd94300> zhobbs: did u find anything helpful?
Oct 16 14:32:33 <Foxdie> I like the idea that I don't need to reflash rom's to fix bugs
Oct 16 14:32:55 <zhobbs> dd94300: no
Oct 16 14:33:04 <zhobbs> dd94300: haven't really looked
Oct 16 14:33:07 * Foxdie has come from a WinMo background, has flashed too many cooked roms in his life x.x
Oct 16 14:33:08 <languish> Shipped/Billed On:  10/15/2008
Oct 16 14:33:16 <languish> well at least that's something
Oct 16 14:33:44 <Foxdie> I'm slightly jealous of those getting their G1's now, I can't until the end of the month when they're released in the UK
Oct 16 14:33:59 <Foxdie> but I wish those who get one that they enjoy it :)
Oct 16 14:34:03 <languish> Foxdie, but in the .uk, you get them free :|
Oct 16 14:34:15 <Foxdie> yeah, if you get a $80/month contract
Oct 16 14:34:22 <languish> heh
Oct 16 14:34:30 <languish> same here too
Oct 16 14:34:30 <Foxdie> and the contracts here are 18 months on average, 24 months in some cases
Oct 16 14:34:33 <languish> PLUS we have to pay
Oct 16 14:35:00 <dd94300> may be plusminus cab help, but he is not here yet
Oct 16 14:35:02 <languish> yes, 24 momnth contract and minimum $25 data, PLUS a calling plan
Oct 16 14:35:11 <unix_lappy> plus taxes on top of 80/month.
Oct 16 14:35:15 <Foxdie> I'd happily pay for a G1 providing it wasn't kidney-black-market territory
Oct 16 14:35:23 <languish> though, I understand you can get a 20$ per month data plan
Oct 16 14:35:33 <Foxdie> I think I paid £300 for my HTC Universal sim-free
Oct 16 14:35:39 <VickiWong> Foxdie: G1's are on a 40 quid contract? :-o
Oct 16 14:35:40 <Foxdie> ($600 US)
Oct 16 14:35:44 <benley> Foxdie: fwiw the self-update stuff works just fine from what I've seen
Oct 16 14:35:46 <languish> Foxdie, let's see if my wife even likes hers
Oct 16 14:35:57 <Foxdie> VickiWong, yep, £40 contract and you get it free
Oct 16 14:35:57 <languish> :/
Oct 16 14:35:59 <benley> Foxdie: they've tested the hell out of the OTA update method
Oct 16 14:36:17 <Foxdie> languish, she better, no one likes an ungrateful wife :)
Oct 16 14:36:31 <Foxdie> that being said, no one likes an ungrateful husband either
Oct 16 14:36:34 <unix_lappy> no one likes a husband who doesnt like their tech either :-P
Oct 16 14:36:35 <languish> nah, it was her idea in the first place to get 'em
Oct 16 14:36:36 <VickiWong> Foxdie: and the unlimited data plan is an extra 10 a month right?
Oct 16 14:36:43 <unix_lappy> 20
Oct 16 14:36:44 <Foxdie> nah, I think its 40 quid all in
Oct 16 14:36:47 <languish> I was languishing over the htc touch pro's
Oct 16 14:36:58 <unix_lappy> funny ;-)
Oct 16 14:37:02 <languish> :D
Oct 16 14:37:06 <Foxdie> my contract for FlexT 35 + web'n'walk was something like 42.50 a month
Oct 16 14:37:18 <Foxdie> for my htc universal
Oct 16 14:37:20 <VickiWong> Foxdie: thats more acceptable then :D
Oct 16 14:37:27 <languish> anyway, she wanted a g1, and I took a hard look at what was available about it
Oct 16 14:37:29 <languish> and got one too
Oct 16 14:37:37 <Foxdie> I have no intention of paying that much.
Oct 16 14:37:48 <Dougie187> I like the touch pro more then the g1 personally.
Oct 16 14:37:50 <Foxdie> I've got 2 phones with t-mo
Oct 16 14:37:53 <VickiWong> i just wish the G1 was a lil prettier of a device
Oct 16 14:38:08 <Dougie187> but i think the g1 is pretty sweet still
Oct 16 14:38:13 <Foxdie> number 1, which is due for an upgrade, is on a £25 a month contract with web'n' walk
Oct 16 14:38:24 <Foxdie> number 2 is web'n'walk on discount, 12.50 a month
Oct 16 14:38:38 <languish> what I want, is a touch pro design with a few of the g1 extras (like the compass) running android
Oct 16 14:38:38 <Foxdie> I'm gonna upgrade number 1 and try and keep the 25 quid month contract, and stick the sim from number 2 in it
Oct 16 14:38:48 <VickiWong> Foxdie: im currently using a PAYG k550i, cost me 30 quid and got 20 credit with it :D
Oct 16 14:39:07 <Foxdie> heh :)
Oct 16 14:39:19 <Dougie187> well it's time for class.
Oct 16 14:39:20 <Dougie187> im out
Oct 16 14:39:22 <Dougie187> see ya
Oct 16 14:39:23 <Foxdie> where you from vicki? you're clearly british
Oct 16 14:39:23 <VickiWong> so these monthly contracts seem daunting to me
Oct 16 14:39:38 <languish> i figure, i'll have the g1 for 6 to 8 months before t-mobile gives us the MDA Vario IV, or some new better device comes along
Oct 16 14:39:49 <VickiWong> Foxdie: actually im chinese, live in HK :) but i studied in uk the past 4 years, south coast (chichester/bournemouth) yourself?
Oct 16 14:40:14 <VickiWong> im hoping we will have a lot of choice for devices by mid-09 for android
Oct 16 14:40:23 <languish> heh, vicki you must have an awesome accent
Oct 16 14:40:36 <languish> btw this isn't a come-on
Oct 16 14:40:45 <Foxdie> Birmingham :)
Oct 16 14:40:58 <languish> I just love the accent the asian women get when they live in the .uk for awhile
Oct 16 14:41:05 <Foxdie> and it must be cool living in HK, I would love to visit
Oct 16 14:41:12 <VickiWong> Foxdie: I went to a Cadbury village up near birmingham once..
Oct 16 14:41:18 <Foxdie> no kidding
Oct 16 14:41:24 <Foxdie> I live about 4 miles from there
Oct 16 14:41:29 <Foxdie> and drive past it every day I go to work
Oct 16 14:41:37 <languish> though for some reason, I don't appreciate the .uk women's accent after living in asian countries for awhile
Oct 16 14:41:41 <VickiWong> Foxdie: wow, nice bit of england up there :) very different from south coast
Oct 16 14:41:42 <languish> funny how that goes
Oct 16 14:41:50 <VickiWong> languish: lol, you live in asia?
Oct 16 14:41:56 <Foxdie> personally I think the area I live in is dull and run down :)
Oct 16 14:41:57 <languish> vicki, haha no.. NYC
Oct 16 14:42:00 <Foxdie> birmingham as a whole that is
Oct 16 14:42:11 <languish> I deal with many people from all over however
Oct 16 14:42:24 <VickiWong> languish: lucky you :) I loved NYC when i visited
Oct 16 14:42:30 <languish> :D  me too
Oct 16 14:42:40 <jasta> *whoa*
Oct 16 14:42:42 <languish> I've tried to move away. I always come back
Oct 16 14:42:44 <jasta> i'm way too tired
Oct 16 14:42:56 <languish> jasta, lol... what'd you misread/
Oct 16 14:42:57 <dd94300> yeah, what is going on?
Oct 16 14:43:02 <VickiWong> Foxdie: i like the UK overall, minus the chav culture of course
Oct 16 14:43:12 <Foxdie> ugh, don't remind me
Oct 16 14:43:15 <languish> damn rudeboys
Oct 16 14:43:18 <Foxdie> we have chavs next door
Oct 16 14:43:45 <Foxdie> last weekend they came home from clubbing at 6am, were really noisy, then decided to play drum and bass really loud
Oct 16 14:43:51 <VickiWong> i lived next door to drug dealing, weed smoking 12 year olds, dog fighting in backyard chavs in bournemouth ><
Oct 16 14:44:08 <Foxdie> sounds a lot like my neighbours
Oct 16 14:44:08 <zhobbs> seems to me that a lot of this stuff isn't going to work with the G1: http://store.androidcommunity.com/android-bluetooth.htm
Oct 16 14:44:35 <Foxdie> although their dog just barks a lot, we (me and my boyfriend) think its because they don't take the dog for a walk
Oct 16 14:44:49 <languish> zhobbs, haha yeah
Oct 16 14:44:55 <Foxdie> and although we've smelt weed, never actually seen them selling it to others
Oct 16 14:45:18 <dd94300> zhobbs , did u read the reviews?
Oct 16 14:45:30 <Foxdie> mind you, weed isn't bad, its the coke thats making a heavy comeback in the UK
Oct 16 14:45:50 <zhobbs> dd94300: reviews of the G1?
Oct 16 14:45:56 <dd94300> yes
Oct 16 14:45:57 <Foxdie> weed isn't bad because it calms you down, sedates you. coke however, pumps you up and makes you an uberwanker
Oct 16 14:46:07 <Foxdie> but alas, thats a discussion for another time and channel :)
Oct 16 14:46:30 <VickiWong> :D
Oct 16 14:46:48 <Foxdie> I guess I shouldn't complain, our neighbours aren't too bad :)
Oct 16 14:47:09 <Foxdie> and I'm glad you had at least some positive experience when you were here vicki
Oct 16 14:47:27 <dd94300> zhobbs: yes
Oct 16 14:47:38 <VickiWong> Foxdie: oh yeah chavs aside i like UK :) will be back at someitme to finish my degree
Oct 16 14:48:18 <zhobbs> dd94300: I skimmed them....what's the verdict? unfinished?
Oct 16 14:48:26 <Foxdie> what were you studying?
Oct 16 14:49:27 <VickiWong> Foxdie: BSc Software Engineering
Oct 16 14:49:33 <Foxdie> ooh fancy :)
Oct 16 14:50:12 <VickiWong> trying to find a work placement currently
Oct 16 14:50:13 <Foxdie> Most I got was a national diploma in comp sci, couldn't afford uni, just started working straight after
Oct 16 14:50:37 <dd94300> zhobbs: Android is good, hardware is not
Oct 16 14:50:51 <VickiWong> Foxdie: lol i can tafford uni either, I pay 9k a year for being international (rather then the 3k rate for uk students)
Oct 16 14:50:51 <Foxdie> If you like bournville (where cadbury world is), there's a major IT contractor there called "Serco", maybe ask them? :)
Oct 16 14:51:01 <zhobbs> dd94300: that's good news actually....much better than if android sucked and hardware was good
Oct 16 14:51:29 <VickiWong> zhobbs: a bit worried about what it'll make the general populus htink abotu android thugh
Oct 16 14:51:53 <VickiWong> Foxdie: didnt know Serco were based there, thanks for the tip :)
Oct 16 14:52:12 <Foxdie> the hardware on the G1 isn't all that bad is it?
Oct 16 14:52:27 <Foxdie> I know the camera isn't latest spec, but if I wanted high quality photos I'd buy a digital camera
Oct 16 14:53:09 <Foxdie> VickiWong, funny story, they used to be the IT dept of Cadbury world, then grew exponentially, they're office is right behind cadbury world
Oct 16 14:53:41 <zhobbs> VickiWong: as long as the OEM's adopt it the public will come around (whether they know it or not)
Oct 16 14:54:04 <VickiWong> Foxdie: wow
Oct 16 14:54:13 <VickiWong> zhobbs: true
Oct 16 14:54:13 <dd94300> zhobbs: exactly
Oct 16 14:54:59 <Foxdie> My thinking is, people haven't experienced a phone like the G1 before
Oct 16 14:55:09 <Foxdie> they're still using symbian based handsets
Oct 16 14:55:30 <Foxdie> so even if we're being overly picky about the G1's specs, to the average person it'll be a major improvement in functionality
Oct 16 14:56:19 <unix_lappy> anyone here looked at the specs on the screen?
Oct 16 14:56:56 <Foxdie> 480x240 transreflective screen with capacitive touchscreen isn't it?
Oct 16 14:57:09 <Foxdie> 480 or 420, one of the wtwo
Oct 16 14:57:10 <Foxdie> *two
Oct 16 14:57:20 <unix_lappy> we all know it's capacitive, and it's being touted as non "multi-touch" is that because HTC used only couple electrodes or because IP law is still fuzzy on the patents pending for multitouch interface application?
Oct 16 14:57:39 <Foxdie> I reckon it'll have the functionality there but isn't coded in software
Oct 16 14:57:56 <Foxdie> but I could (and probably am) wrong
Oct 16 14:58:03 <Foxdie> *could be
Oct 16 14:58:20 <unix_lappy> Currently a lot of new media attention on the lack of multi-touch.  Generally tech media is good about due-dilligence.
Oct 16 14:58:30 <Foxdie> it makes sense to add it now and possibly be able to activate it in future if IP can be arranged
Oct 16 14:58:42 <unix_lappy> But in this case the details are still fuzzy.  Most capacitive screens are only marginally more expensive to make them multitouch.
Oct 16 15:00:24 <VickiWong> anhyone know what call quality is like on the G1?
Oct 16 15:00:48 <VickiWong> i cant find a review where they got to test it
Oct 16 15:01:13 <unix_lappy> Which really gives credence to the notion that a more "involved" device will be available late FY08 Q1 or early FY09 Q2
Oct 16 15:01:19 <cbeust_> With all the reviews out there (check out techmeme.com), you would probably have heard if the call quality was not good....
Oct 16 15:02:20 <VickiWong> cbeust_: nice answer :)
Oct 16 15:02:47 <cbeust_> See how I refrained from saying "the call quality is the best I have seen in a cell phone in fifty years"
Oct 16 15:03:43 <Foxdie> someone actuall said something similar
Oct 16 15:03:53 <Foxdie> tthat the call quality was great
Oct 16 15:04:06 <Foxdie> read it someplace on androidcommunity.com
Oct 16 15:04:07 <unix_lappy> As far as hardware is concerned the major gripes are bezel, nav panel, sub par camera (and no video), keyboard isnt raised, lack of multitouch (pending), battery life is abysmal (but standard for it's class)...
Oct 16 15:04:13 <VickiWong> cbeust_: yes i did like how subtle you were ;)
Oct 16 15:04:31 <languish> engadget gave the call quality a decent but middling review
Oct 16 15:04:34 <unix_lappy> re nav panel: getting in the way of typing.
Oct 16 15:04:52 <Foxdie> video will be added, battery life is better than the iphone
Oct 16 15:05:05 <Foxdie> plus 3rd party double capacity batteries will spring up soon
Oct 16 15:05:19 <Foxdie> at least with the G1 you can replace the battery :)
Oct 16 15:05:40 <languish> and yes, google reps at an event stated that the hardware and android itself was multitouch capable.. but hinted that IP issues were the reason it wasn't implimented
Oct 16 15:06:06 <languish> if you absolutely need the reference I can find it
Oct 16 15:06:17 <languish> it's in a video up on g1tube
Oct 16 15:06:32 <languish> but don't make me just outta random curiosity
Oct 16 15:07:12 <unix_lappy> iirc, when asked if there was multitouch / multitouch gestsures, their response was patent issues.
Oct 16 15:07:28 <michaelnovakjr_> romainguy, around?
Oct 16 15:08:03 <languish> mike, was your dad a global studies/history teacher?
Oct 16 15:08:10 <michaelnovakjr_> me?
Oct 16 15:08:13 <languish> yeah
Oct 16 15:08:15 <michaelnovakjr_> nope
Oct 16 15:08:17 <languish> 'k
Oct 16 15:09:38 <unix_lappy> meh, all in good time, i'm sure the source tree will have some hints that it's coming ;-)
Oct 16 15:10:26 <zhobbs> yeah, maybe we can pirate multitouch into android
Oct 16 15:10:39 <VickiWong> 'Google Maps on G-1 feels like a poor cousin of the iPhone-based Google Maps and Microsoft Maps on Windows Mobile'
Oct 16 15:10:42 <VickiWong> thats suprising to hear
Oct 16 15:10:55 <languish> just don't put your pirate stuff on the android market
Oct 16 15:11:06 <languish> phear teh google kill switch
Oct 16 15:11:09 <languish> :/
Oct 16 15:11:26 <languish> VickiWong, sounds like whoever was using it, was on edge
Oct 16 15:11:37 <languish> or didn't have a good 3g signal
Oct 16 15:12:06 <VickiWong> languish: thats what i figured, other google map reviews seem to be positive
Oct 16 15:12:10 <languish> nod
Oct 16 15:12:37 <languish> basically the majority of negative reviews have been from people with no, edge, or poor signal
Oct 16 15:12:53 <languish> and the positive ones, while mixed, were mostly from those with solid 3g
Oct 16 15:13:07 <languish> go figure
Oct 16 15:14:02 <Disconnect> course, the majority of users are gonna be on edge until tmob gets their rollout done.
Oct 16 15:14:07 <Disconnect> which i'm not holding my breath for...
Oct 16 15:14:26 <languish> it'll be interesting to see if the radio in the g1 is firmware reprogrammable and if google gets their wish for use of the white space in 2009, will the device as old as the g1 by then, get an update to use it for whatever google has in mind
Oct 16 15:14:47 <languish> Disconnect, uhh, the majority of the phones were sold to people in 3g regions
Oct 16 15:14:49 <languish> some edge sure
Oct 16 15:14:59 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: i was hinting at some interesting multitouch being in the codebase, but if there's only a couple electrodes on the conductive layer of the screen then there's not much to be hacked.
Oct 16 15:15:07 <unix_lappy> (for future devices)
Oct 16 15:15:09 <languish> and only tmo stores in 3g areas are supposed to have the phones
Oct 16 15:15:19 <Disconnect> languish: is that actual numbers or is that because of the stores?
Oct 16 15:15:39 <languish> Disconnect, it's from comments by tmo reps
Oct 16 15:15:51 <languish> and alsop because of the distrobution to the stores
Oct 16 15:16:25 <Disconnect> so might be actual numbers :) but then again, i've been considered "baltimore region" because of where I live (basically in the triangle between b'more, annapolis and dc) but 99% of my time is dc metro
Oct 16 15:16:27 <languish> it'd be pretty stupid for non developers in non 3g areas to get the g1 anyway.
Oct 16 15:16:41 <languish> granted, unless they plan to spend a lot of time in a 3g area
Oct 16 15:16:56 <languish> Disconnect, nod
Oct 16 15:17:08 <Disconnect> is it -that- bad on edge? :/
Oct 16 15:17:26 <languish> from what I've seen, people get frustrated with some of the apps on edge
Oct 16 15:17:59 <languish> particularly google maps
Oct 16 15:18:02 <Disconnect> hmm. damn. well.. it does have a j2me runner, right? so worst case is that i load the j2me gmail/maps apps - they work fine on my e90 in edge, so i won't expect that to be too different on the g1
Oct 16 15:18:17 <languish> heh
Oct 16 15:18:53 <languish> yeah, it's not about people being reasonable at this point
Oct 16 15:19:09 <cbeust_> There is no Java ME runner
Oct 16 15:19:13 <languish> there's hype and they want in, then get in, but they're put out
Oct 16 15:19:49 <languish> yeah, I was just looking for info on j2me for android
Oct 16 15:20:21 <Disconnect> http://www.netmite.com/android/userguide.htm
Oct 16 15:21:49 <languish> :/
Oct 16 15:21:58 <languish> it needs some more time in the oven
Oct 16 15:22:00 <languish> but cool
Oct 16 15:23:55 <Disconnect> yah i saw a brief mention of it on the list, didn't follow the thread deeply enough to realize it wasn't part of the sdk already :/
Oct 16 15:25:17 <languish> I wonder if the g1 is going to get product placement in tv shows/movies
Oct 16 15:25:44 <languish> it really doesn't seem to be sexy enough, other than maybe some geek reference to some cool app or teen show with a kid pounding away on it
Oct 16 15:26:17 <languish> it's not ugly in my opinion, but it's not sleek
Oct 16 15:26:37 <languish> I can see it in an ep of Eureka
Oct 16 15:26:48 <languish> and maybe Chuck
Oct 16 15:30:14 <cbeust_> languish: :)
Oct 16 15:30:26 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 16 15:31:51 <jasta> hehe
Oct 16 15:32:17 <Disconnect> doesn't nokia have chuck all locked up?
Oct 16 15:36:29 <languish> 'eh
Oct 16 15:36:38 <languish> producers love better offers
Oct 16 15:42:21 <henri> hi all! What can I use to develop applications on android, C# and/or Java?
Oct 16 15:42:54 <wastrel> java
Oct 16 15:43:08 <wastrel> download the sdk it's easy, code.google.com
Oct 16 15:43:20 <wastrel> er, code.google.com/android
Oct 16 15:44:16 <henri> thx
Oct 16 15:46:04 <VickiWong> need to get Exchange on there soonish i think
Oct 16 15:50:33 <tethridge> I'm confused by one of walt mossberg's statements in his review.  He says, "It also doesn’t automatically change the orientation of the screen from portrait to landscape simply by turning the phone."  If the g1 has an accelerometer then why doesn't it switch from landscape to portrait when you tilt the phone.  My canon point and shoot can do that.
Oct 16 15:51:02 <wastrel> i read somewhere that people didn't like it during user testing
Oct 16 15:51:10 <wastrel> but don't take my word for it :]
Oct 16 15:51:20 <wastrel> it's something i'd like to see enabled if possible.
Oct 16 15:51:30 <tethridge> that's strange I've never heard anybody complain of that feature
Oct 16 15:51:55 <wastrel> well i just read it on a web site somewhere - no idea if it's true :]
Oct 16 15:52:16 <mgc_> what happens one the 22nd?
Oct 16 15:52:35 <Cedric2> tethridge: because it's annoying
Oct 16 15:52:49 <languish> on the 22nd, t-mobile stores within 3g areas start selling the T-mobile G1
Oct 16 15:52:51 <Cedric2> anyone who's played a bit with automatic screen rotation knows that it's very unreliable
Oct 16 15:53:14 <Cedric2> It tends to rotate when you don't want to
Oct 16 15:53:19 <languish> also on the 22nd, the sun rises, reaches its zenith, and sets
Oct 16 15:53:23 <Cedric2> or behave just erratically on horizontal surfaces or near big monitors
Oct 16 15:53:34 <VickiWong> languish: i heard thats just a rumor...
Oct 16 15:53:41 <languish> yeah, I hate auto screen rotation on digial cameras
Oct 16 15:54:16 <languish> VickiWong, yeah.. it is. The truth is the sun doesn't go anywhere, we just sit and spin.
Oct 16 15:54:22 <languish> :/
Oct 16 15:54:41 <VickiWong> languish: good catch :D
Oct 16 15:54:44 <languish> :)
Oct 16 15:57:22 <living_sword> how much of the internal memory is available for the apps ?
Oct 16 15:57:33 <VickiWong> anyone noticed on review videos the G1 seems to take quite some time booting up?
Oct 16 15:57:49 <Cedric2> VickiWong: it's true for the very first times, it goes faster after that
Oct 16 15:57:55 <Cedric2> s/times/time
Oct 16 15:58:12 <VickiWong> Cedric2: ahh cool was going to ask if it got better
Oct 16 15:59:24 <VickiWong> I wonder how many people are going to use the 'big g' unlock pattern
Oct 16 16:00:37 <mgc_> big g unlock`?
Oct 16 16:01:47 <languish> I wonder how many people are gonna whine about needing their phone reset because they can't remember their lock pattern
Oct 16 16:01:48 <languish> :|
Oct 16 16:01:57 <languish> or is there a password back up
Oct 16 16:02:04 <Cedric2> There is not
Oct 16 16:02:09 <languish> which of course, they won't remember anyway
Oct 16 16:02:29 <Cedric2> You don't solve people the problem of people forgetting something by asking them to remember a second thing
Oct 16 16:03:15 <languish> right, you just shoot them in the head. Like I deserve for forgetting which email address I used to register my nick on freenode back in '06
Oct 16 16:04:30 <SanMehat> morning
Oct 16 16:04:31 <wastrel> 06 eh, newbie
Oct 16 16:04:49 <languish> wastrel, no, just oldschool elsewhere
Oct 16 16:04:50 <languish> :)
Oct 16 16:05:08 <SanMehat> languish: on furnet? :)
Oct 16 16:05:12 <languish> hellz no
Oct 16 16:05:14 <SanMehat> (sorry i couldn't resist)
Oct 16 16:05:15 <SanMehat> hahaha
Oct 16 16:05:23 * languish yiffs SanMehat
Oct 16 16:05:27 <SanMehat> bahahaha
Oct 16 16:05:27 <languish> :|
Oct 16 16:05:33 * SanMehat runs for the hills
Oct 16 16:05:58 <languish> so you run TO where there's more furry creatures?
Oct 16 16:06:01 <languish> o.O
Oct 16 16:07:22 <SanMehat> touche
Oct 16 16:09:06 <languish> so, has anyone dev'd or come across a polyhedral dice rolling app for android/g1?
Oct 16 16:11:27 <muthu_> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review/
Oct 16 16:11:32 <muthu_> some critical reviews there
Oct 16 16:12:10 <Cedric2> languish: there is actually such an application on Market :)
Oct 16 16:24:13 <languish> Cedric2 cool
Oct 16 16:24:19 <languish> i figured there would be
Oct 16 16:24:26 <languish> bit better to ask :)
Oct 16 16:24:59 <Cedric2> It's called TableTop, try it when you get your phone
Oct 16 16:26:29 <languish> nod
Oct 16 16:26:33 <languish> likely will
Oct 16 16:48:31 <jasta> so when do we get details on just how to put apps on the market?
Oct 16 16:51:38 <muthu_> it has to come this week
Oct 16 16:53:46 <jasta> i would think so, but then...i have no idea
Oct 16 16:53:57 <jasta> you'd think they'd release documentation early so folks could get ready
Oct 16 16:54:05 <jasta> so you'd be all ready to go
Oct 16 16:54:18 <muthu_> but so far everything is a surprise
Oct 16 16:54:28 <muthu_> so on friday market arrives ;)
Oct 16 16:56:47 <jasta> hey does anyone at google know if there are some performance benchmarks on SparseArray versus HashMap?
Oct 16 16:57:24 <jasta> does it contain any magic i wouldn't expect or is it just a binary search tree?
Oct 16 16:59:49 <Cedric2> jasta: how about doing a google search? :)
Oct 16 17:00:34 <SanMehat> a what search? :)
Oct 16 17:01:23 <tethridge> did you guys see the article talking about the unlock program may be easily defeated if the user has an oily finger?
Oct 16 17:01:50 <tethridge> make sure you wipe your screen before you leave it.
Oct 16 17:01:59 <tethridge> :-)
Oct 16 17:02:40 <muthu_> if that's the case indians can't use it :))
Oct 16 17:02:46 <muthu_> lol
Oct 16 17:03:11 <muthu_> pass the G1 here and steal our passwords ;)
Oct 16 17:12:42 <jasta> Cedric2: Your search - sparearray versus hashmap - did not match any documents. ? :)
Oct 16 17:12:47 <jasta> err typo :)
Oct 16 17:13:07 <jasta> but i'm not looking for a general comparison of the idea of a SparseArray
Oct 16 17:13:20 <jasta> i want to know what it's android.util.SparseArray, specifically it running under Dalvik
Oct 16 17:13:51 <romainguy> what abotu SparseArray?
Oct 16 17:13:58 <romainguy> ah
Oct 16 17:14:11 <romainguy> SparseArray performance is on par with HashMap
Oct 16 17:14:16 <romainguy> sometimes better
Oct 16 17:15:44 <zhobbs> romainguy: should this work? <TableRow android:background="@android:drawable/list_selector_background" android:selectable="true" android:focusable="true"> ... </TableRow>
Oct 16 17:16:00 <zhobbs> I want the whole row to give visual feedback when touched
Oct 16 17:16:08 <romainguy> android:selectable doesn't exist afaik
Oct 16 17:16:27 <romainguy> other than that, yes it should work
Oct 16 17:16:32 <romainguy> I know several people have done it already
Oct 16 17:17:56 <jeld> hello all
Oct 16 17:18:36 <jeld> anybody knows whassup with the eclipse plugin repository?
Oct 16 17:18:58 <jasta> ?
Oct 16 17:19:24 <jeld> jasta, get a "Not Found"
Oct 16 17:19:31 <jeld> https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/
Oct 16 17:19:32 <jasta> maybe theyre updating to a new version soon?
Oct 16 17:19:39 <jeld> jasta, ?
Oct 16 17:19:46 <zhobbs> it's always given a 404 in the browser
Oct 16 17:19:49 <zhobbs> but works in eclipse
Oct 16 17:20:10 <umdk1d3> https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml
Oct 16 17:20:14 <jeld> zhobbs, eclipse tells me there is no repository on this URL
Oct 16 17:20:15 <umdk1d3> yea its working fine
Oct 16 17:20:34 <jeld> weird
Oct 16 17:24:28 <ttuttle> Hey, if I want to do an HTTP request in the background, do I just spawn another thread?
Oct 16 17:24:41 <muthu_> yes
Oct 16 17:24:51 <ttuttle> Anything special to do?
Oct 16 17:24:56 <muthu_> no
Oct 16 17:24:59 <ttuttle> Okay.
Oct 16 17:25:03 <muthu_> k
Oct 16 17:25:47 <muthu_> jeld: try http
Oct 16 17:25:59 <muthu_> https fails for some weirdo reasons
Oct 16 17:26:22 <zhobbs> romainguy: my TableRow has an ImageView and a TextView in it, and using that selector as a background for the ImageView or TextView works, but not on the TableRow
Oct 16 17:41:18 <muthu_> zhobbs: there's this selection/focus problems, that no one understands
Oct 16 17:51:06 <romainguy> muthu_: it's simple, no selection/focus in touch mode
Oct 16 17:51:29 <romainguy> zhobbs: you have two solutions
Oct 16 17:51:54 <romainguy> 1. set the row focusable/clickable and set its children non focusable
Oct 16 17:51:55 <romainguy> or
Oct 16 17:52:01 <romainguy> 2. keep everything the way it is
Oct 16 17:52:04 <romainguy> and add a new attribute on the row
Oct 16 17:53:15 <romainguy> android:addStatesFromChildren="true"
Oct 16 18:00:45 <zhobbs> romainguy: great, thanks!  I'll have to remember that "addStatesFromChildren" attribute
Oct 16 18:01:06 <romainguy___> there's the opposite as well
Oct 16 18:01:10 <romainguy___> duplicateStateFromParent
Oct 16 18:02:08 <zhobbs> ok, good to know
Oct 16 18:08:48 <umdk1d3> yay got thinkpad back from repair
Oct 16 18:09:03 * umdk1d3 settles down to a nice afternoon of gentooing
Oct 16 18:09:25 <f00f-> not working umdk1d3 ?
Oct 16 18:09:39 <umdk1d3> well i can multitask  ;)
Oct 16 18:09:44 <f00f-> oh hahaha
Oct 16 18:19:01 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: I used to do the source based distros....just don't have time anymore
Oct 16 18:19:16 <zhobbs> might have to go back to it though
Oct 16 18:23:00 <umdk1d3> i did debian for the longest time, but really got fed up with breaking my repos
Oct 16 18:23:12 <umdk1d3> always seemed to get horridly stuck with some unworkable config
Oct 16 18:23:21 <umdk1d3> and any time you needed to really get under the hood, it was hard
Oct 16 18:23:28 <zhobbs> it seems like a pain to compile stuff from source in ubuntu...maybe I just don't know enough about ubuntu
Oct 16 18:23:47 <umdk1d3> like a custom kernel option, or compiling a package with a patch
Oct 16 18:23:56 <umdk1d3> isnt there apt-src or something?
Oct 16 18:25:04 <zhobbs> don't really know...ubuntu doesn't force you do do anything under the hood, so I feel like I never learn the internals
Oct 16 18:25:36 * gdsx has a very strong dislike for ubuntu
Oct 16 18:25:52 <gdsx> it tries to hard to be helpful and gets in the way while doing so
Oct 16 18:25:57 <gdsx> too*
Oct 16 18:27:00 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: yea ubuntu is awesome if you just need linux
Oct 16 18:27:34 <f00f-> just tar zxvf ; make bleh
Oct 16 18:27:38 <f00f-> override the .deb
Oct 16 18:27:47 <f00f-> i think you can install some metapackage
Oct 16 18:27:52 <gdsx> equivs
Oct 16 18:27:53 <f00f-> to have it ignore kernel updates from repo's
Oct 16 18:28:20 <gdsx> oh, for kernels? I just remove all the kernel packages and do things myself, yeah
Oct 16 18:30:35 <VickiWong> does android store the users home country? and are we able to get at that info
Oct 16 18:30:57 <gdsx> VickiWong: what do you mean by "home country"?
Oct 16 18:31:03 <michaelnovakjr_> what's up with the kill switch?
Oct 16 18:31:19 <VickiWong> gdsx: the users home country, the ocuntry where they live
Oct 16 18:31:44 <VickiWong> gdsx: basically im trying to look out for when the user leaves their home country
Oct 16 18:32:14 <VickiWong> ie travelling abriad
Oct 16 18:32:16 <gdsx> VickiWong: I could see a SIM having a home country (in which case, I don't know), but I don't think a phone would.  If you're actually asking "can I tell when the phone is roaming?", then I don't know
Oct 16 18:32:17 <VickiWong> abroad*
Oct 16 18:32:39 <VickiWong> gdsx: ahh thought maybe they might have rehistered a country when making an account
Oct 16 18:32:45 <VickiWong> registered*
Oct 16 18:33:13 <romainguy___> michaelnovakjr_: imagine there's a bad application out there that destroys or steals people's data
Oct 16 18:33:29 <michaelnovakjr_> understandable
Oct 16 18:34:14 <michaelnovakjr_> amazon mp3 is slick
Oct 16 18:34:26 <jasta> hey michaelnovakjr_
Oct 16 18:34:30 <michaelnovakjr_> hey
Oct 16 18:34:33 <michaelnovakjr_> how's it going?
Oct 16 18:34:58 <jasta> great, almost got playlist sync support in
Oct 16 18:35:04 <michaelnovakjr_> nice
Oct 16 18:35:13 <michaelnovakjr_> i've been plugging away at the win server
Oct 16 18:35:36 <jasta> excellent, i think that umdk1d3 may be interested in your work
Oct 16 18:35:50 <jasta> although he is apparently totally insane so i'm not sure if he will be able to help at all :)
Oct 16 18:35:51 <michaelnovakjr_> he needs a win server?
Oct 16 18:35:59 <jasta> he wanted to work on that too, i think
Oct 16 18:36:05 <michaelnovakjr_> ah
Oct 16 18:36:17 * jasta looks over at umdk1d3 for a moment
Oct 16 18:36:28 <MrSnowflake> how can i make a view grow with an animation and keep it's size like it is after the animation
Oct 16 18:37:25 <VickiWong> is the google account you have to register when using android just a standard google account?
Oct 16 18:37:44 <Dougie187> afiak its a gmail account
Oct 16 18:37:58 <Dougie187> i believe i read that somewhere
Oct 16 18:38:22 <VickiWong> if thats the case then the user does enter a lcoation country, just need to find out how to access that info now :)
Oct 16 18:38:23 <Disconnect> all google accounts are gmail accounts, basically.
Oct 16 18:38:42 <VickiWong> Disconnect: good news :)
Oct 16 18:38:59 <Dougie187> Disconnect: what if you just setup an account with google calendar.
Oct 16 18:39:08 <VickiWong> anyone know if we are able to access this data in our apps or not?
Oct 16 18:39:34 <Disconnect> i'm sad tho - can't move my google reader stuff over to my other account. and i'm with (gizmodo reviewer maybe?) on the need to integrate multiple google accounts for (eg) personal and work
Oct 16 18:40:25 <Disconnect> Dougie187: its still foohead@gmail.com and gets email
Oct 16 18:40:52 <Dougie187> well you don't need a gmail account to setup a google calendar account
Oct 16 18:41:02 <Dougie187> so your google calendar account might not be foohead@gmail.com
Oct 16 18:41:04 <michaelnovakjr_> Dougie187: and vice versa
Oct 16 18:41:08 <michaelnovakjr_> it is actually
Oct 16 18:41:12 <unix_lappy> obviously someone has thought of that and decided against it for this iteration.
Oct 16 18:41:29 <Dougie187> michaelnovakj_: what if you use a campus email or hotmail account to setup a google calendar account?
Oct 16 18:41:36 <Dougie187> or even yahoo.
Oct 16 18:41:41 <unix_lappy> though, i'd be surprised if no more than a couple people have multiple gmail accounts.
Oct 16 18:42:16 <Dougie187> unix_lappy: heh yeah. i mean i have 3 of them... and my wife has 2.
Oct 16 18:43:40 <wastrel> i have 1
Oct 16 18:43:45 <_avatar> michaelnovakjr_: out of curiosity, where did you try amazonmp3? do you have a device?
Oct 16 18:43:59 <michaelnovakjr_> i didn't try it, i saw the app in screenshots .... zdnet review
Oct 16 18:44:03 <_avatar> ah ok
Oct 16 18:44:54 <michaelnovakjr_> awesome idea
Oct 16 18:45:00 <michaelnovakjr_> i prefer amazon mp3
Oct 16 18:45:12 <_avatar> me too.
Oct 16 18:45:17 <_avatar> but i wrote the app so i'm biased :P
Oct 16 18:45:39 <michaelnovakjr_> you wrote the amazon mp3 app for android?
Oct 16 18:45:44 <_avatar> yeah
Oct 16 18:45:49 <michaelnovakjr_> who do you work for?
Oct 16 18:45:55 <_avatar> amazonmp3
Oct 16 18:45:57 <morrildl> VickiWong: You can use a gmail account, or a Google Apps for Your Domain account
Oct 16 18:45:59 <michaelnovakjr_> ah cool
Oct 16 18:46:21 <_avatar> hey morrildl, how goes? :)
Oct 16 18:46:24 <morrildl> VickiWong: for instance, I use mine with my @google.com account
Oct 16 18:46:31 <morrildl> Busy as hell this week, _avatar  :)
Oct 16 18:46:42 <VickiWong> morrildl: ahh cool, do you know if we can get the users google account? ie their registered location
Oct 16 18:46:45 <_avatar> i'll bet!
Oct 16 18:46:54 <VickiWong> morrildl: ahh cool, do you know if we can get the users google account? ie their registered location
Oct 16 18:46:57 <VickiWong> woops
Oct 16 18:47:39 <muthu_> morrildl: when's the market launch?
Oct 16 18:47:56 <morrildl> VickiWong: I'm not following what you want to do, can you explain in more detail?
Oct 16 18:48:02 <morrildl> muthu_: soon
Oct 16 18:48:19 <muthu_> this week?
Oct 16 18:48:39 <VickiWong> morrildl: yeah sorry that was pretty bad (late here :D) I am trying to get hold of the user's home location(country). I know when a user registers a google account for the phone they input their location
Oct 16 18:48:51 <VickiWong> morrildl: im wanting to find out the users registered location
Oct 16 18:49:32 <morrildl> VickiWong: Ahhh, I see.  I don't believe that information is available via API
Oct 16 18:49:56 <VickiWong> morrildl: i was worried about that :( would have saved the trouble of asking the user to input it again for my app
Oct 16 18:50:02 <morrildl> VickiWong: yeah :(
Oct 16 18:50:14 <VickiWong> morrildl: thanks anyway ;)
Oct 16 18:50:31 <morrildl> VickiWong: np
Oct 16 18:54:32 <umdk1d3> ooh!
Oct 16 18:54:36 * umdk1d3 goes to pester _avatar   ;)
Oct 16 18:54:53 <umdk1d3> _avatar: ive been trying to find someone at amazon to figure out what intents your app responds to
Oct 16 18:55:08 <umdk1d3> say, for instance, we wanted to send someone over your way to find a perticular artist or album
Oct 16 18:56:07 <umdk1d3> i found one instance of someone launching an intent that your app /might/ be picking up:
Oct 16 18:56:13 <umdk1d3> { http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%22Business%20Time%22%20and%20%22Flight%20Of%20The%20Conchords%22 }
Oct 16 18:57:50 <_avatar> umdk1d3: i'm not sure what i can and can't say at this point (NDA's are fun!), but if you go poking around you may be able to find an intent to invoke searching ;)
Oct 16 18:58:29 <umdk1d3> :/
Oct 16 18:58:32 <romainguy___> umdk1d3: adb shell dumpsys might list all the intents
Oct 16 18:58:35 <romainguy___> I'm not sure though
Oct 16 18:58:49 <umdk1d3> i dont even have the mp3 app  >:/
Oct 16 18:59:38 <morrildl> romainguy___: yes, the amazonmp3 is only on the G1 system image :)
Oct 16 18:59:51 <morrildl> Stop taunting our developers! :)
Oct 16 18:59:53 * umdk1d3 kicks eng builds
Oct 16 18:59:55 <romainguy___> I thought umdk1d3 had a G1 :)
Oct 16 19:00:10 <romainguy___> ah doh
Oct 16 19:00:11 <romainguy___> yes
Oct 16 19:00:14 <romainguy___> eng build :p
Oct 16 19:00:54 <umdk1d3> someone /could/ pass me an apk tho  ;)
Oct 16 19:03:02 <|Rob> hi, is there anyway to listen for the enter button to be pressed with a edittext? I'm not sure which listener would do the trick
Oct 16 19:04:49 * unix_lappy wonders if umdk1d3 got an extra special PM ;-)
Oct 16 19:05:38 <VickiWong> this is probably a dum bquestion, but is there a way to get two buttons side by side to fill the parent? fill_parent works fine for one button
Oct 16 19:05:55 <VickiWong> but when using two buttons sidebyside seems i can only give it definate sizes
Oct 16 19:06:04 <VickiWong> give it = give them
Oct 16 19:06:47 <wastrel> giving them weights doesn't work?
Oct 16 19:06:53 <romainguy___> VickiWong: give them both a width of 0dip and layout_weight="1.0"
Oct 16 19:06:59 <romainguy___> if you are using a LinearLayout that is
Oct 16 19:07:23 <VickiWong> romainguy___: using a relative
Oct 16 19:07:36 <romainguy___> you can't really do that with a RelativeLayout
Oct 16 19:07:52 <VickiWong> yeah thats the conclusion i reached to, was hoping i missed something :D
Oct 16 19:09:08 * VickiWong goes off to look into linear layouts
Oct 16 19:17:10 <|rob> hmm
Oct 16 19:17:23 <|rob> tried a onkeylistener, but now I cant enter any text
Oct 16 19:17:54 <MrSnowflake> |rob: I tried calling view.onKey... in the onKeyListener, but it crashed my program.. :s
Oct 16 19:19:37 <VickiWong> anyone else find the emu takes forever to get past the booting phase? or is this laptop not powerful enough
Oct 16 19:20:15 <MrSnowflake> @VickiWong: it takes a while but not that long (@1.5ghz c2d)
Oct 16 19:20:15 <|rob> mine fails on the first try but loads like a champ on the 2nd go
Oct 16 19:20:17 <umdk1d3> VickiWong: the first time ive noticed that, as its unpacking the system image
Oct 16 19:20:26 <|rob> it always happens, since I tried it heh
Oct 16 19:20:31 <unix_lappy> VickiWong: it's about 10 seconds.
Oct 16 19:20:50 <unix_lappy> (on a 2.4 ghz c2d w/ plenty of memory)
Oct 16 19:21:06 <MrSnowflake> unix_lappy: showoff :p
Oct 16 19:21:06 <|rob> yay, setOnKeyListener did the trick
Oct 16 19:21:25 <MrSnowflake> ?
Oct 16 19:21:31 <|rob> for my edittext issue
Oct 16 19:21:55 <MrSnowflake> when you do setonkeylistener?
Oct 16 19:22:31 <|rob> view foo = (view) r.find.byid(some_resource); foo.setonkeyListener....
Oct 16 19:22:50 <MrSnowflake> k
Oct 16 19:23:39 <VickiWong> takes around 22 seconds for me, and i have only changed a buttons width since last running the emu, (AMD turion X2 TL-58 and 2GB ram)
Oct 16 19:24:07 <unix_lappy> MrSnowflake: 50 bucks in processing power does not a show off make.
Oct 16 19:24:42 <unix_lappy> i like my 1.7 ghz T42 a lot better than this T61 anyhow :-P
Oct 16 19:25:22 <tomgibara> hi all
Oct 16 19:26:00 <zhobbs> hi tomgibara
Oct 16 19:27:39 <VickiWong> romainguy___: I tried adding (android:layout_width="0dip" and android:layout_weight="1.0") to both buttons in a LinearLayout however that makes both buttons vanish : \
Oct 16 19:29:56 <jasta> can we see the full layout?
Oct 16 19:31:24 <VickiWong> jasta: let me just put it on a pastebin site
Oct 16 19:31:56 <jasta> k, great
Oct 16 19:32:30 <|rob> :s, if I use TextView.append(someText + "\n"), I can't add anymore text to it
Oct 16 19:32:39 <|rob> the \n causes problems, any ideas why?
Oct 16 19:33:33 <VickiWong> http://pastebin.com/m29796bed
Oct 16 19:34:06 <VickiWong> i probably borked something transitioning from Relative to Linear layouts
Oct 16 19:34:06 <jasta> VickiWong: well, obviously, this is a vertical LinearLayout
Oct 16 19:34:12 <romainguy___> VickiWong: is the layout horizontal?
Oct 16 19:34:17 <jasta> so what you think weight is going to do for the horizontal dimension i dont know
Oct 16 19:35:19 <jasta> weight is to take up available space along the orientation of the parent.  since the orientation of this parent is vertical, weight would only be applicable to height.
Oct 16 19:35:26 <jasta> if you want the button to be as wide as the parent, use width=fill_parent
Oct 16 19:36:52 <VickiWong> one second
Oct 16 19:38:32 <VickiWong> here's what im aiming for the app to look like http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=hulzkz&s=4 but with two buttons side by side where the 'Convert
Oct 16 19:38:37 <VickiWong> button is
Oct 16 19:38:56 <VickiWong> and for them to toegtehr fill the screen (so 50% each)
Oct 16 19:39:32 <jasta> so next a horizontal linearlayout there
Oct 16 19:39:33 <VickiWong> I figured it owuld be a relative layout as apposed to a linear one
Oct 16 19:39:38 <jasta> and pack two buttons with weight=1 width=0
Oct 16 19:39:48 <jasta> err, nest, not next
Oct 16 19:40:05 <VickiWong> jasta: mah nesting layouts, now theres an idea.... lol
Oct 16 19:40:07 <jasta> do realize that you can nest layouts to achieve more sophisticated effects.
Oct 16 19:40:21 <VickiWong> sorry it's 3:40am, my mind isnt exactly workign at it's peak
Oct 16 19:40:28 <jasta> and in fact, it is absolutely necessary to do for a good portion of your UI :)
Oct 16 19:40:29 <VickiWong> working*
Oct 16 19:40:30 <michaelnovakjr_> i thought only birds lived in nests?
Oct 16 19:40:52 <|rob> anyone have any clue about my \n problem?
Oct 16 19:41:00 <VickiWong> thanks jasta & romainguy___ :)
Oct 16 19:43:19 <romainguy> |rob: how is your TextView defined?
Oct 16 19:43:58 <|rob> http://pastebin.com/m2e275701
Oct 16 19:44:45 <|rob> another problem i have is it's inside a scrollview, but i cant get it to scroll down
Oct 16 19:44:57 <romainguy> because you use a specific height
Oct 16 19:45:06 <romainguy> the height should be wrap_content
Oct 16 19:45:19 <jasta> blech
Oct 16 19:45:31 <jasta> |rob: never hardcode dimensions like this unless you really know what you're doing
Oct 16 19:45:33 <romainguy> the width should be fill_parent too
Oct 16 19:45:43 <romainguy> and the layout_x and layout_y are useless in a scroll view
Oct 16 19:45:52 <|rob> i'm using a absolutelayout, and it seems to need them
Oct 16 19:46:03 <ttuttle> Is there any advantage to using a ContentProvider as opposed to my own specialized "view" class?
Oct 16 19:46:05 <jasta> don't use an absolutelayout either
Oct 16 19:46:07 <romainguy> you just said TextVew was in a ScrolView?
Oct 16 19:46:31 <jasta> ttuttle: a content provider allows other apps to access your data.
Oct 16 19:46:36 <jasta> ttuttle: any other solution does not
Oct 16 19:46:55 <jasta> except, i suppose, storing your data in a public way but that would be very clumsy
Oct 16 19:46:56 <ttuttle> jasta: Hmm.
Oct 16 19:47:03 <romainguy> that plus it gives you a framework for data manipulation
Oct 16 19:47:12 <romainguy> and several APIs can take advantage of it
Oct 16 19:47:19 <ttuttle> Okay.
Oct 16 19:47:21 <romainguy> like the ContentObserver
Oct 16 19:47:21 <jasta> yes, such as ImageView which is convenient
Oct 16 19:47:48 <MrSnowflake> guys, I want to scale an ImageView but I want to keep it's size after the animation the same, how should I do this?
Oct 16 19:48:29 <romainguy> MrSnowflake: set fillAfter to true on the animation
Oct 16 19:48:34 <jasta> ttuttle: i use ContentProviders even if i don't expect my data will be of interest to anyone
Oct 16 19:48:40 <jasta> just to have that option without a redesign is nice
Oct 16 19:48:51 <MrSnowflake> Romainguy: I believe I tried that..., I try again for u :)
Oct 16 19:49:07 <jasta> hehe "for u" romain :)
Oct 16 19:49:13 <ttuttle> romainguy: Should I wrap it in my own class that returns things in a more convenient form?
Oct 16 19:49:19 <romainguy> ContentProviders are also really nice for possible future integration
Oct 16 19:49:58 <jasta> the major disadvantage of ContentProviders, however, is that they are very clumsy to implement generally.
Oct 16 19:50:13 <romainguy> I didn't find so
Oct 16 19:50:20 <romainguy> at least when you have a database behind
Oct 16 19:50:28 <romainguy> but you can always rely on ArrayListCursor for instance
Oct 16 19:50:58 <jasta> well, in my case, i have loads of stupid specialized content uris to get various degrees of efficiency out of my queries
Oct 16 19:51:50 <jasta> for example, there is a way to query songs, but sometimes you want a query that left joins songs to artist and album tables to get all the info at once
Oct 16 19:51:54 <jasta> same with playlists
Oct 16 19:52:21 <jasta> but you dont want the general query to do this join.  so you have to conditionalize the hell out of things either based on lots of contenturis or by checking the "where" clause and figuring out what columns were requested
Oct 16 19:52:43 <MrSnowflake> hmm strange, it did work (obviously as romain said it), I'm pretty sure I tried something like that.
Oct 16 19:52:57 <MrSnowflake> but the something wasn't good enough aparently...
Oct 16 19:53:09 <|rob> jasta: what layout would you recommend?
Oct 16 19:53:27 <jasta> i use LinearLayout almost exclusively throughout my applications.
Oct 16 19:53:38 <romainguy> RelativeLayout is also very useful sometimes
Oct 16 19:53:41 <jasta> RelativeLayout ocassionally, and subclasses of FrameLayout when i need fancier things
Oct 16 19:53:45 <romainguy> to flatten a hierarchy
Oct 16 19:56:16 <jasta> most every type of intuitive layout can be thought of in terms of LinearLayout, and so that's a great place to start.
Oct 16 19:57:01 <jasta> but christ, do not use AbsoluteLayout for non-static layouts.  that should only be used when you truly wish to restrict the dimensions and positions of logical items, such as images or something when you dont want stretching
Oct 16 19:58:43 <|rob> the reason im using it is because the layout is static, it wont change, but the text will scroll
Oct 16 19:59:15 <|rob> gah, when i press enter, the event gets sent twice to the system
Oct 16 19:59:55 <jasta> no, you're wrong
Oct 16 20:00:23 <jasta> if i get a phone with a screen twice as wide, should your app sit in a small corner of my screen?
Oct 16 20:00:33 <jasta> likewise, if i get a phone with half the screen width, should your app be unusable?
Oct 16 20:01:13 <jasta> this is why static layouts are a terrible idea.  you are binding your app to very particular screen configurations, and users will kill you when the crop of android devices becomes more diverse
Oct 16 20:01:17 <zhobbs> I like RelativeLayouts a lot
Oct 16 20:01:50 <umdk1d3> here goes  /me crosses fingers for getting kernel right on first try
Oct 16 20:03:45 <umdk1d3> yay panic free, and most everything appears to be working  ^.^
Oct 16 20:06:41 <Disconnect> anyone want to answer a g1 question? wondering if sms's are backed up to gmail or not.
Oct 16 20:07:12 <jasta> god i hope not :()
Oct 16 20:07:14 <jasta> erm :(
Oct 16 20:07:17 <|rob> jasta: good point, I didn't think of that >.<
Oct 16 20:08:03 <Disconnect> alternately, does it ship with a backup/restore app? cuz if not.. thats a big gap
Oct 16 20:08:34 <umdk1d3> if they implemented sms stuff as a contentprovider, it wouldnt be hard to write a backup app
Oct 16 20:09:30 <Disconnect> for backup/restore i'm thinking everything, not just sms. the basic standard "i'm going to format you and then expect to come back where i left off" backup app..
Oct 16 20:09:33 <Terdhex> Does anybody has a sample email application for android?
Oct 16 20:10:39 <tomgibara> Regarding layouts, I find you can go a really long way with one linear layout and judicious use of padding, margins and gravity
Oct 16 20:11:13 <jasta> Terdhex: google wrote one, you'll see it when you get the phone :)
Oct 16 20:12:04 <Cedric2> 2 actually
Oct 16 20:13:44 <jasta> Cedric2: so, i've bene trying to find out if your e-mail app either supports IMAP IDLE or is open source
Oct 16 20:13:49 <jasta> do you know either? :)
Oct 16 20:14:05 <jasta> Exchange supports IMAP IDLE, and i can't figure out why no one bothers for that quick fix to support push e-mail from exchnage
Oct 16 20:14:59 <jasta> i feel like every smartphone in existence refuses to support IMAP IDLE solely to sell whatever other branded e-mail they have
Oct 16 20:15:29 <jasta> Windows Mobile doesnt support it so they can claim only Exchange can do push, Blackberries make you use their crummy centralized system, ...
Oct 16 20:15:58 <tomgibara> romainguy: When you drag an icon over the 'thumb' to prompt a trashcan, the red fade animates in upwards, it looks slick, how did you approach that?
Oct 16 20:15:58 <jasta> ...is Google different? :)
Oct 16 20:16:58 <jasta> tomgibara: looks to me like its an animation involving a gradient centered in the middle
Oct 16 20:17:28 <jasta> maybe im wrong though.  it does look cool, i hadn't noticed it before really
Oct 16 20:17:32 <jasta> looks like an alarm siren somehow
Oct 16 20:17:36 <romainguy___> tomgibara: what are you interested in? the fade or the translate up?
Oct 16 20:17:43 <romainguy___> and actually if you look closely
Oct 16 20:18:02 <romainguy___> if you take the cursor out of the thumb, the animations plays in reverse, but it picks up where it stopped
Oct 16 20:18:10 <romainguy___> changing the duration of the fade out accordingly
Oct 16 20:18:29 <tomgibara> I had noticed :) (messy to do that with animations, I've found)
Oct 16 20:18:39 <romainguy___> actually it's in the framework
Oct 16 20:18:43 <romainguy___> but for one specific animation
Oct 16 20:18:48 <romainguy___> I plan on adding this for all animations later on
Oct 16 20:18:51 <romainguy___> anyway
Oct 16 20:18:52 <jasta> yeah, that's actually a disappointing problem with thxte framework
Oct 16 20:19:00 <tomgibara> I suppose I wanted to know if you'd used an animation, or a fancy sort of drawable in the background
Oct 16 20:19:05 <romainguy___> there are 3 things going on:
Oct 16 20:19:16 <romainguy___> - the All Apps thumb translates down with an alpha fade out
Oct 16 20:19:18 <jasta> the*
Oct 16 20:19:25 <romainguy___> - the "delete zone" translates up with an alpha fade in
Oct 16 20:19:38 <romainguy___> - the "delete zone" animates its background drawable
Oct 16 20:19:47 <romainguy___> the background drawable is a TransitionDrawable
Oct 16 20:20:26 <tomgibara> ha, that's what I didn't know about
Oct 16 20:20:38 <romainguy___> <transition xmlns:android="http://schemas.android.com/apk/res/android">
Oct 16 20:20:38 <romainguy___>     <item android:drawable="@drawable/delete_handle_normal"  />
Oct 16 20:20:38 <romainguy___>     <item android:drawable="@drawable/delete_handle"  />
Oct 16 20:20:38 <romainguy___> </transition>
Oct 16 20:20:51 <romainguy___> oops
Oct 16 20:21:02 <romainguy___> anyway
Oct 16 20:21:10 <romainguy___> that's an android.graphics.drawable.TransitionDrawable
Oct 16 20:21:22 <tomgibara> Thanks for that, somehow I'd totally missed that class
Oct 16 20:21:24 <romainguy___> you can call things like startTransition() or reverseTransition() on it
Oct 16 20:21:50 <zhobbs> is that how the calculator buttons are done?
Oct 16 20:22:00 <tomgibara> So you use that for making the list items glow on a long click too?
Oct 16 20:22:49 <romainguy___> that's correct
Oct 16 20:22:56 <jasta> a transitiondrawable?  i'd never seen that either
Oct 16 20:22:58 <romainguy___> zhobbs: no :)
Oct 16 20:23:11 <tomgibara> romainguy___: :) mystery solved, thanks
Oct 16 20:23:17 <romainguy___> I also used that transition drawable in my yet to be released bookshelf application
Oct 16 20:23:23 <romainguy___> when you scroll I show dummy covers
Oct 16 20:23:26 <jasta> so i wanted to run something by you romain...
Oct 16 20:23:30 <romainguy___> when the scroll stops I transition to the real cover
Oct 16 20:23:41 <jasta> in my stream progress bar, i have the secondary progress bar "fade out" when the download is done
Oct 16 20:24:05 <jasta> i accomplish this with a ViewSwitcher and two identical ProgressBars, except the bottom one has no secondary progress, then switch with fade_out/fade_in.
Oct 16 20:24:19 <jasta> but that seemed pretty aggressive to me, is there a simpler way i could accomplish this?
Oct 16 20:24:34 <romainguy___> yes
Oct 16 20:24:38 <romainguy___> let me check something
Oct 16 20:25:20 <romainguy___> yeah so you could just create your own progress drawable
Oct 16 20:25:25 <romainguy___> it's a layer-list of drawables
Oct 16 20:25:29 <jasta> i already have, actually
Oct 16 20:25:46 <romainguy___> then you could just fade out the drawable that represents the secondary progress
Oct 16 20:26:29 <jasta> hmm.  i created the drawable using XML
Oct 16 20:26:40 <jasta> it's just a <shape>?  would i need to subclass ProgressBar to get at the drawable to fade it?
Oct 16 20:27:00 <romainguy___> the layer drawable, if I recall correctly, lets you find a drawable by id
Oct 16 20:27:10 <romainguy___> so you could just grab it without subclassing ProgressBar
Oct 16 20:27:26 <jasta> hang on, let me play with the API for a minute to get a handle on what youre saying :)
Oct 16 20:27:41 <romainguy___> it's after all what ProgressBar does
Oct 16 20:27:49 <romainguy___> it finds the sub-drawables to change their levels
Oct 16 20:28:52 <ttuttle> romainguy___: /me wants wireless adb so I can listen to music on my Dream while I develop.
Oct 16 20:29:06 <romainguy> ttuttle: just buy a USB splitter
Oct 16 20:29:12 <ttuttle> romainguy: Yeah, I should.
Oct 16 20:29:19 <romainguy> or better yet
Oct 16 20:29:26 <ttuttle> Implement wireless adb?
Oct 16 20:29:29 <romainguy> enable USB mass storage
Oct 16 20:29:39 <ttuttle> romainguy: Yeah but I don't have headphones for my computer, just the HTC headphones.
Oct 16 20:29:40 <romainguy> and listen to the G1's MP3 from your computer...
Oct 16 20:29:51 <ttuttle> s/HTC headphones/HTC earphones/;
Oct 16 20:30:06 <|rob> Eclipse seems to have a bad memory leak, ram usage went from 100MB to 1.2GB, and still on the same project
Oct 16 20:30:38 <jasta> oh, duh
Oct 16 20:30:44 <jasta> getCurrentDrawable()
Oct 16 20:31:28 <ttuttle> |rob: Funny, vim, bash, and ant don't do that :-)
Oct 16 20:32:09 <VickiWong> +1 for vim
Oct 16 20:32:17 <ttuttle> vim rocks.
Oct 16 20:33:25 * ttuttle is really enjoying hacking on his laptop with his ##### G1 attached by USB.  It's a great workflow.
Oct 16 20:33:42 <VickiWong> bleh @ G1 owners
Oct 16 20:33:50 <VickiWong> when do we get the G1 in HK :D
Oct 16 20:33:55 <ttuttle> VickiWong: Oh, be patient.
Oct 16 20:33:59 <ttuttle> VickiWong: Or get someone to mail you one.
Oct 16 20:34:07 <ttuttle> VickiWong: You know how often the US has to wait for cool gadgets?
Oct 16 20:34:47 <VickiWong> ttuttle: meh i dont think we are even going to get the G1 out here
Oct 16 20:35:12 <wastrel> well i don't even know if i'm going to be able to get one :]
Oct 16 20:35:24 <wastrel> the guy at the store said the open at 8 and he expects to sell out
Oct 16 20:35:32 <unix_lappy> VickiWong: in all liklihood you'll get a better device :-P
Oct 16 20:35:40 <unix_lappy> we'll get stuck with the G1, heh.
Oct 16 20:35:44 <VickiWong> unix_lappy: muahaha thats the hope :D
Oct 16 20:36:03 <VickiWong> once China Mobile get their act into gear
Oct 16 20:36:48 <Lenolium> ttuttle: Hey, can you point me to some docs on how to get ant going for these android projects, I'm an emacs guy so eclipse is really bothering me, and I've never done any real java before so ant is very foreign to me.
Oct 16 20:37:50 <jasta> romainguy: how can i leverage the existing AlphaAnimation class to make a drawable animate?  I'm looking at AnimationDrawable here as a reference and it seems like a lot of work to build this up?
Oct 16 20:38:14 <jasta> i'd have to schedule each frame of my drawables animation myself?
Oct 16 20:42:21 <ttuttle> Hmm.
Oct 16 20:42:46 <ttuttle> I'm looking at the Notepad example on how to create a ContentProvider, and I'm confused at the QueryBuilder stuff.  In particular, what is the use of the "projection map"?
Oct 16 20:44:40 <morrildl> ttuttle: it defines the query projection
Oct 16 20:45:11 <tomgibara> tuttle: as in the relational calculus
Oct 16 20:45:25 <morrildl> tomgibara: I thought it was "relational algebra"
Oct 16 20:45:36 <morrildl> WikiPedia will tell us!
Oct 16 20:46:11 <jasta> ttuttle: it's a lame way to translate what column was requested of the contentprovider to what column the contentprovider should request of the database.
Oct 16 20:46:32 <morrildl> tomgibara: hmm, wikipedia has entries on both and I can't parse either, right now :)
Oct 16 20:46:37 <VickiWong> is there a way to give an EditText a default value in XML? i oculdnt find an obvious property
Oct 16 20:46:53 <unix_lappy> almost 4PM, most of our brains are fried at this point.
Oct 16 20:46:57 <unix_lappy> ;-P
Oct 16 20:47:01 <morrildl> VickiWong: android:text="..."
Oct 16 20:47:07 <jasta> for example, "SELECT foo FROM a LEFT JOIN b ON ..." might be ambgiuous if both a and b contain foo, but the ContentProvider has to somehow give a response for "foo", regardless of this ambiguity.  so a projection map lets you say that "foo" => "a.foo"
Oct 16 20:47:18 <tomgibara> morrildl: Google tells us: "relational algebra" wins over "relational calculus" by 53,000 to 143,000
Oct 16 20:47:34 <jasta> it's just a super lame way to "flatten" a relational database to match the ContentProviders design
Oct 16 20:47:40 <tomgibara> (er numbers wrong way round)
Oct 16 20:47:46 <VickiWong> morrildl: see i was looking for android:value :D
Oct 16 20:47:54 <morrildl> VickiWong: heh
Oct 16 20:49:39 <|rob> anyone here about this remote app disabling google has in their app store?
Oct 16 20:49:43 <|rob> s/here/hear
Oct 16 20:49:56 <VickiWong> morrildl: youll know this, when setting an edittext with android:numeric="decimal" are we able to set how many decimal places are allowed, in xml? I have done it in code but wanted to move it to the layout
Oct 16 20:50:00 * unix_lappy resolves to get some more android work in today!
Oct 16 20:50:26 <VickiWong> unix_lappy: good news :)
Oct 16 20:51:34 <unix_lappy> yea, gotta try out zxing tonight, lot of ideas ;-)
Oct 16 20:53:36 <tomgibara> jasta: Isn't the projection map's primary functionality in this context to ensure that only the data that's required is retrieved?
Oct 16 20:53:49 <tomgibara> I think it's very harsh to call it "super lame"
Oct 16 20:54:12 <jasta> it is super lame, god the whole idea of the contentprovider squishing relational data drives me nuts
Oct 16 20:55:05 <jasta> tomgibara: why would it need to be a map for that? :)
Oct 16 20:55:55 <tomgibara> I need to reacquaint myself with the API, I haven't written a ContentProvider for absolutely ages
Oct 16 20:58:59 <tomgibara> jasta: Okay, my mistake, I was thinking of the projection array that's passed in to the buildQuery method
Oct 16 20:59:44 <tomgibara> I'm confusing my abstractions (that is what a projection map does within the relational algebra)
Oct 16 21:08:57 <morrildl> jasta: uh, no
Oct 16 21:09:13 <morrildl> jasta: it's a way to let the developer pick which fields he wants out of a query to a CP
Oct 16 21:09:20 <morrildl> at least, if you're talking about hte method I think yuo are
Oct 16 21:17:38 <|rob> im having a slight issue with this layout, I have a relativelayout with a scrollview inside it. The scrollview has a textview child. I tried to set the set android:layout_alignRight to align it with another element, but it gives an error.
Oct 16 21:18:07 <|rob> "ERROR Error: No resource found that matches the given name (at 'layout_alignRight' with value '@id/sv2')."
Oct 16 21:18:32 <|rob> the other element definitely has the id sv2
Oct 16 21:19:03 <|rob> atm, the scrollview extends over the other element
Oct 16 21:23:58 <VickiWong> wth's a G2? :D
Oct 16 21:24:24 <VickiWong> im hopign a joke http://twitter.com/cpurdy
Oct 16 21:30:19 <|rob> course it is, see his profile: " am a famous actor, world renound singer, CEO of a fortune-100 company, jet-setting playboy, and all around fake. But I can code."
Oct 16 21:30:56 <VickiWong> good spot
Oct 16 21:31:07 <unix_lappy> anyone remember the links to the Tmobile data + voice pricing plans for their new 3g network?
Oct 16 21:31:16 <VickiWong> anyone know of an XML parsing example in the API Demos? Im not sure there is one
Oct 16 21:35:22 <VickiWong> nope i dont think there is one, nevermind :D
Oct 16 21:37:08 <Lenolium> VickiWong: The XML libraries are just standard java XML libraries, so you can use any XML tutorial out there. (I know I did)
Oct 16 21:37:41 <VickiWong> Lenolium: see I tried that, and ran into issues with current sdk
Oct 16 21:37:50 <unix_lappy> hmm, looks like 3g coverage in texas is going to be spectacular.
Oct 16 21:38:13 <unix_lappy> (as to compete with at&t)
Oct 16 21:39:14 <VickiWong> Lenolium: I have toruble with getElementsByTagName and getChildNodes if I remember correctly
Oct 16 21:45:39 <morrildl> 129 members, 131 earlier today
Oct 16 21:45:49 <morrildl> I wonder how big this channel will get when source is released
Oct 16 21:46:34 <VickiWong> anyone else have this issue when tryign to parse xml? The method getChildNodes() is undefined for the type Element
Oct 16 21:46:56 <VickiWong> happens with every XML parsing example i can find, mind you i have only tried 5 or 6
Oct 16 21:46:58 <jasta> morrildl: No, it's not.  If it were, it wouldn't be a map of String to String.  If you didn't have this ability it would be Very, Very Broken (TM) to use contentproviders and joined tables.
Oct 16 21:47:36 <VickiWong> same with getElementsByTagName(String
Oct 16 21:48:10 <Lenolium> VickiWong: But the Document element has those.
Oct 16 21:48:45 <VickiWong> Lenolium: as in  doc.getDocumentElement ().normalize (); ?
Oct 16 21:49:19 <Lenolium> VickiWong: Just doc.getElementsByTagName(string);
Oct 16 21:50:50 <VickiWong> Lenolium: most of the Java examples I can find seem to be trying to use it with plain Elements as well as the document element, strange
Oct 16 21:52:11 <morrildl> VickiLong are you importing the right Element?  There is android.sax.Element, which is different from org.w3c.dom.Element
Oct 16 21:52:28 <morrildl> Oops, that was for VickiWong
Oct 16 21:53:00 <jasta> romainguy: i'm pretty confused about how to fade out a Drawable without essentially reimplementing all the abstractions of AlphaAnimation?
Oct 16 21:54:08 <VickiWong> morrildl: im importing both android.sax.Element and org.w3c.dom.*
Oct 16 21:54:15 <VickiWong> morrildl: could this be causing the issue
Oct 16 21:54:34 <morrildl> VickiWong: Yes
Oct 16 21:54:48 <morrildl> VickiWong: the more specific import will mask the wildcard
Oct 16 21:55:05 <morrildl> and indeed, android.sax.Element has no getElementsByTagName(String), etc.
Oct 16 21:55:29 <VickiWong> see and  i have my imports collapsed so i never spot things like that
Oct 16 21:55:58 <morrildl> I'm going to guess you are doing a cast to (Element) from somewhere
Oct 16 21:56:43 <VickiWong> yeah
Oct 16 22:42:38 <donomo> anyone have an example of parsing JSON in an android app? the package documentation is lacking. http://code.google.com/android/reference/org/json/package-summary.html
Oct 16 22:52:59 <dmoffett> donomo:  This is all I had to do to parse a buffer from an input stream
Oct 16 22:53:08 <dmoffett> try {
Oct 16 22:53:08 <dmoffett> 				JSONObject jobj = new JSONObject(strBuf.toString());
Oct 16 22:53:09 <dmoffett> 				return jobj;
Oct 16 22:53:09 <dmoffett> 			} catch(JSONException x){
Oct 16 22:53:09 <dmoffett> 				Log.e(TAG, x.getMessage());
Oct 16 22:53:09 <dmoffett> 			}
Oct 17 02:44:06 <jasta> is there some convenience in Android to do something like pause playback when a call comes in?
Oct 17 02:44:17 <jasta> any kind of generic "PLEASE_SHUT_UP" intent? :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 17 02:59:57 2008