**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 17 02:59:57 2008
Oct 17 03:01:05 <Kontuus> yes
Oct 17 03:02:02 <unix_remote> heh.
Oct 17 03:02:47 <Kontuus> I'm trying to find it..
Oct 17 03:03:27 <wastrel> hi
Oct 17 03:03:42 <Kontuus> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/BroadcastReceiver.html
Oct 17 03:12:23 <muthu_> kill switch is so NOT google
Oct 17 03:12:39 <yakischloba> haha
Oct 17 03:13:01 <yakischloba> I didn't notice - does that only apply to apps distributed through the app store, or everything?
Oct 17 03:13:11 <muthu_> it applies to any apps on the device
Oct 17 03:13:41 <yakischloba> so I take it the apps I have on the device, loaded through app store or otherwise, are reported in huh
Oct 17 03:14:02 <muthu_> yes
Oct 17 03:14:12 <romainguy> muthu_: the kill switch is here for the user's protection
Oct 17 03:14:18 <yakischloba> weak! i'll abandon for openmoko!
Oct 17 03:14:21 <yakischloba> thats what they all say!
Oct 17 03:14:46 <muthu_> romainguy: i know, but it doesn't feel right
Oct 17 03:14:54 <romainguy> ok
Oct 17 03:15:06 <romainguy> let's say there's an app that steals or destroys your data behind your back
Oct 17 03:15:19 <romainguy> and it spread on many devices
Oct 17 03:15:43 <muthu_> you should give that power to the user
Oct 17 03:15:50 <romainguy> the user can also do that
Oct 17 03:15:50 <muthu_> to remove/uninstall/delete etc.,
Oct 17 03:15:57 <xavd> muthu_: where did you see it applies to any app, no matter how they were installed?
Oct 17 03:15:59 <romainguy> but if the app does it in the background without you knowing it
Oct 17 03:16:10 <yakischloba> romainguy: Are there any specific criteria that must be met to use this functionality, or is it up to some overlord to decide?
Oct 17 03:16:35 <muthu_> xavd: read in computerworld
Oct 17 03:16:37 <romainguy> yakischloba: I have no idea
Oct 17 03:16:54 <yakischloba> hmm
Oct 17 03:16:59 <xavd> muthu_: was it an official google quote?
Oct 17 03:17:04 <dmoffett> At least Google told us about it unlike Apple who had the same functionality and failed to mention it.
Oct 17 03:17:06 <romainguy> if you're not happy with it, don't use Market :)
Oct 17 03:17:21 <unix_remote> romainguy: so it doesnt apply to apps not installed using market?
Oct 17 03:17:26 <romainguy> I don't know
Oct 17 03:17:34 <jasta> it probably does, actually, they are all signed :P
Oct 17 03:17:38 <muthu_> android should be about mobile o/s
Oct 17 03:17:41 <muthu_> nothing more
Oct 17 03:17:42 <romainguy> xavd would know
Oct 17 03:18:20 <unix_remote> meh, i buy the argument that it's just an extension of the "do no evil" mantra, but it has to have a certain degree of reciprocity.
Oct 17 03:18:38 <muthu_> if its only the market app that has the kill switch
Oct 17 03:18:42 <romainguy> you guys are totally paranoid
Oct 17 03:19:02 <yakischloba> romainguy: most of us are just asking questions
Oct 17 03:19:08 <unix_remote> romainguy: i'm more paranoid about shelling out a couple hundered bucks on a device when a new one is imminent :-P
Oct 17 03:19:18 <unix_remote> *gives evil eye*
Oct 17 03:19:35 <unix_remote> ;-)
Oct 17 03:19:37 <romainguy> yakischloba: I just explained why there's a kill switch, if you don't like it... well that's your choice :)
Oct 17 03:19:39 <muthu_> none of the reviews mentioned about accelerometer
Oct 17 03:19:46 <muthu_> is it on G1?
Oct 17 03:19:49 <romainguy> yes
Oct 17 03:20:00 <romainguy> unix_remote: ask the phone manufacturers, not us
Oct 17 03:20:01 <muthu_> ok, not sure why the reviews missed them
Oct 17 03:20:05 <yakischloba> romainguy: I could care less, because I expect and accept all of these compromises that come with a business backing a project
Oct 17 03:20:33 <unix_remote> romainguy: ;-)
Oct 17 03:20:46 <unix_remote> yakischloba: businesses*
Oct 17 03:21:02 <yakischloba> I put my fate at the mercy of those who provide services to me every day, this won't be any different
Oct 17 03:21:34 <muthu_> is the market open?
Oct 17 03:22:44 <muthu_> android topic:
Oct 17 03:22:57 <muthu_> how does the activity to activity messaging happen?
Oct 17 03:23:11 <muthu_> do events get passed between activities?
Oct 17 03:28:38 <jasta> muthu_: all messaging is through the binder, how do you not know this by now? hehe
Oct 17 03:28:56 <jasta> its a very specialized system for IPC
Oct 17 03:29:20 <muthu_> apart from IPC..
Oct 17 03:33:02 <yakischloba> dude like
Oct 17 03:33:13 <yakischloba> what if you got on the bus and it took you somewhere you didn't want to go
Oct 17 03:33:14 <yakischloba> or crashed
Oct 17 03:37:20 <muthu_> howdy jasta?
Oct 17 03:37:25 <muthu_> excited for G1?
Oct 17 03:39:47 <plusminus_> muthu_: he gets tired thinking of the G1
Oct 17 03:39:49 <plusminus_> sooo boring
Oct 17 03:39:53 <plusminus_> ;)
Oct 17 03:39:56 <muthu_> :)
Oct 17 03:40:20 <muthu_> jasta is the android stock index ;)
Oct 17 03:40:24 <plusminus_> maybe I can find a G1 in the streets of NY :)
Oct 17 03:40:28 <plusminus_> this weekend
Oct 17 03:40:33 <muthu_> cool
Oct 17 03:40:53 <muthu_> am resgined to the fact, that it'll be a couple more months before i can grab one
Oct 17 03:41:16 <plusminus_> what about ebay?
Oct 17 03:41:25 <muthu_> yeah, will try ebay.in
Oct 17 03:41:30 <muthu_> if available, gr8
Oct 17 03:41:46 <muthu_> htc is launching in dec for sure
Oct 17 03:41:51 <plusminus_> maybe someone can get it here and ship it to you
Oct 17 03:41:59 <muthu_> yep
Oct 17 03:42:08 <plusminus_> would cost some extra bucks :(
Oct 17 03:42:22 <muthu_> after 22 anything is possible ;)
Oct 17 03:42:36 <plusminus_> ;)
Oct 17 03:42:52 <plusminus_> I'll be ill on 22nd :D
Oct 17 03:42:57 <muthu_> hehe
Oct 17 03:43:02 <plusminus_> i just can feel it :P
Oct 17 03:43:13 <muthu_> just work your free apps now
Oct 17 03:43:22 <muthu_> am sure market will open up quickly for paid apps
Oct 17 03:43:30 <muthu_> then you make all your dollahs :)
Oct 17 03:43:34 <plusminus_> hehe
Oct 17 03:43:44 <plusminus_> preparing a demo for AndSudoku...
Oct 17 03:43:50 <muthu_> great
Oct 17 03:44:50 <muthu_> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2008/10/announcing-https-support-for-appspotcom.html
Oct 17 03:44:58 <muthu_> wasn't this available for a long time?
Oct 17 03:48:05 <plusminus_> anyone knows if uninstalling an applicaton can be prevented (by a password or sth). Think of parental control apps.
Oct 17 03:48:46 <muthu_> you can't do that as of now
Oct 17 03:52:58 <jasta> to make a parental controlled android phone you'd really want to reflash the whole thing
Oct 17 04:01:32 <After_Math-747> Woohooo
Oct 17 04:01:42 <After_Math-747> I cant wait to use android
Oct 17 04:03:21 <After_Math-747> how is the room tonight?
Oct 17 04:03:42 <yakischloba> stuffy
Oct 17 04:03:47 <yakischloba> crack the window please
Oct 17 04:26:35 <muthu_> ada da ada da ada da..
Oct 17 04:47:36 <unix_remote> heh, it's so much fun to see how the UI design has evolved in the last 6 months.
Oct 17 04:47:45 * unix_remote is perusing through the GoogleDevelopers videos.
Oct 17 04:50:24 <unix_remote> which I really dont think media coverage has reflected.  I think the more appropriate term would be "nascent" rather than rusty, cartoonish, etc.
Oct 17 04:50:45 <muthu_> the current UI is nice
Oct 17 04:51:37 <muthu_> but need to really feel the G1 to find out ;)
Oct 17 05:02:20 <unix_remote> muthu_: it feels fine and it's only going to get better, I wouldnt worry too much about that.
Oct 17 05:03:17 <unix_remote> there are other variables to concern ourselves with as it becomes fo' realz.
Oct 17 05:05:31 <languish> if anyone's looking for a cheap 4gb microsd, woot.com's selling them right now for $5.99 each, plus $5 ship, limit 3. so $23 for 3 total shipped
Oct 17 05:06:03 <languish> if you don't know about woot.com they sell 1 type of item a day until it sells out, then a new item the next day
Oct 17 05:06:36 <muthu_> woot.. nice
Oct 17 05:06:39 <languish> just figured someone might want some extra micrsd's to mess with
Oct 17 05:08:56 <Adamant> are there any 16GB cards out?
Oct 17 05:09:05 <Adamant> I'm assuming they're an arm and a leg
Oct 17 05:12:13 <languish> Adamant, in australia they've been out for a bit
Oct 17 05:12:19 <languish> prolly where they're test marketing
Oct 17 05:15:13 <languish> Adamant http://www.provantage.com/sandisk-sdsdq-016g-a11m~7SNDK2P3.htm
Oct 17 05:15:19 <DarkriftX> languish, i used a few more of your ideas
Oct 17 05:15:23 <languish> but i don't exactly trust provantage
Oct 17 05:15:37 <languish> DarkriftX, cool man. I hope they work for you
Oct 17 05:15:38 <DarkriftX> made the nav menu at top bolder and 12pt instead of 11pt
Oct 17 05:15:49 <languish> that wasn't my idea :?
Oct 17 05:16:03 <DarkriftX> you said it was small and hard to read
Oct 17 05:16:11 <DarkriftX> and that you didnt notice it because the text was small
Oct 17 05:16:29 <languish> no, i said that it scrolls off the top of the main page and you don't see it, because of the large title image
Oct 17 05:16:35 <DarkriftX> ahh, i c
Oct 17 05:16:50 <languish> you scroll down the page to read the content
Oct 17 05:16:52 <DarkriftX> so you think switching the top nav with the breadcrumbs would fix that?
Oct 17 05:16:54 <languish> and lose the menu at the top
Oct 17 05:17:33 <languish> *just* for the title page, duplicate the menu where it says "home" in the bar under the title image
Oct 17 05:17:43 <languish> the rest of the site the navigation was fine
Oct 17 05:17:55 <DarkriftX> i c
Oct 17 05:18:41 <languish> or figure something else out :)
Oct 17 05:19:15 <languish> i'm a bit inebriated and hung over at the sime time atm
Oct 17 05:19:19 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 17 05:19:35 * languish drink drink water
Oct 17 05:19:38 <DarkriftX> im going to spend a couple hours fixing the descriptions for some of my downloads
Oct 17 05:19:46 <languish> nod
Oct 17 05:23:14 <DarkriftX> its hard to find developer sites for some of this stuff
Oct 17 05:23:22 <DarkriftX> or even decent descriptions
Oct 17 05:25:32 <languish> DarkriftX, many of them are just on google's code site
Oct 17 05:25:41 <DarkriftX> nice
Oct 17 05:25:54 <languish> but yeah, a lot of android devs have been lax in putting up pages
Oct 17 05:25:58 <DarkriftX> im editing my download module to have an authors homepage field built in
Oct 17 05:26:10 <DarkriftX> see, thats why i want them to sign up for my site
Oct 17 05:26:13 <DarkriftX> i could be their page :)
Oct 17 05:26:18 <languish> :)
Oct 17 05:26:18 <DarkriftX> htey could each get their own little mini forum
Oct 17 05:26:27 <DarkriftX> without having to pay hosting :)
Oct 17 05:26:27 <languish> it's not a bad idea, just.. so many want to do iyt
Oct 17 05:26:30 <languish> *it
Oct 17 05:26:37 <DarkriftX> not many are trying very hard though
Oct 17 05:26:41 <languish> nod
Oct 17 05:26:45 <DarkriftX> most ppl have 10-20 downloads, i have almost 60
Oct 17 05:26:53 <unix_remote> are there higher quality versions of some of the videos from the google code page for android?
Oct 17 05:27:13 <taaz> DarkriftX: what's your site?
Oct 17 05:27:24 <DarkriftX> android-dls.com
Oct 17 05:27:33 <DarkriftX> its new
Oct 17 05:27:46 <DarkriftX> still in the works, so descriptions and other stuff is kinda bare
Oct 17 05:28:02 <DarkriftX> im working on getting the developers more credit for each download now
Oct 17 05:31:22 * taaz wonders why so many androids sites are not optimized for android browser
Oct 17 05:33:13 <gambler> because they are SEO noise
Oct 17 05:35:06 <languish> cuz android broser give teh full intarweb experience
Oct 17 05:35:09 <languish> minus flash :/
Oct 17 05:35:14 <DarkriftX> i was thinking that
Oct 17 05:35:15 <languish> and some other unimportant shit
Oct 17 05:35:28 <DarkriftX> from what i can see, its like a normal browsing experience
Oct 17 05:35:38 <DarkriftX> my site displayed pretty nice in the g1 emu skin
Oct 17 05:35:39 <languish> lies and innuendo
Oct 17 05:41:28 <taaz> seriously?  you think a 3 column page looks good on a screen that can only display 1?
Oct 17 05:42:09 <taaz> the only reason most sites are viewable on mobile browsers is that the browser is smart enough to constrain the paragraph width to the screen size
Oct 17 05:42:43 <taaz> notice if you zoom out there is a big empty column
Oct 17 05:43:23 <taaz> maybe it's just a matter of adding some mobile stylesheets to the cms system...
Oct 17 05:47:39 <DarkriftX> also keep in mind, my site is very beta right now
Oct 17 05:47:49 <DarkriftX> im sure ill make a mobile. subdomain soon with completely different css
Oct 17 05:52:55 <languish> yeah, DarkriftX doesn't get the point of a staging site prior to going live
Oct 17 05:52:56 <languish> lol
Oct 17 05:53:10 <languish> but at least he's getting community feedback and working with it
Oct 17 05:53:32 <DarkriftX> closed betas suck~!
Oct 17 05:53:36 <languish> lol
Oct 17 05:54:05 <languish> anyone know where the g1's are shipping from? are they actually shipping outta cali?
Oct 17 06:34:01 <languish> DarkriftX
Oct 17 06:34:06 <DarkriftX> sup
Oct 17 06:34:09 <languish> http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f23/freeware-android-apps-site-2715/
Oct 17 06:34:12 <languish> go read
Oct 17 06:35:08 <DarkriftX> lol, nice
Oct 17 06:36:02 <languish> yeah, I don't like the android-freeware.org site
Oct 17 06:36:14 <languish> bastard barely has it up, and has money ads all over it
Oct 17 06:36:36 <languish> he's just lookin to cash in
Oct 17 06:36:40 <languish> which is fine
Oct 17 06:36:43 <languish> but geeze
Oct 17 06:39:07 <DarkriftX> rich off ads?
Oct 17 06:39:27 <DarkriftX> i couldnt imagine making more then $5/mo on adsense ($4/mo less then my hosting is)
Oct 17 06:39:50 <languish> well, his site does come up will in google searches for freeware android apps
Oct 17 06:39:54 <languish> will/well
Oct 17 06:40:04 <languish> so i can see how he'd make some coin
Oct 17 06:40:19 <languish> off topic.. http://health.yahoo.com/news/reuters/us_phones_rash.html
Oct 17 06:40:20 <DarkriftX> hrmmmmm
Oct 17 06:40:26 <DarkriftX> i wonder...
Oct 17 06:40:41 <languish> I think if people cleaned their damn phones... they might not be getting rashes :|
Oct 17 06:41:01 <languish> or the idiots that press the phone to their faces so hard for so long
Oct 17 06:41:32 <languish> though, it's sort of amusing to see people walking past with imprints of a phone pad on their cheek
Oct 17 06:42:09 <DarkriftX> LOL
Oct 17 06:42:28 <DarkriftX> i once put nail polish on someones red nokia phone and called them
Oct 17 06:42:37 <DarkriftX> i cried...
Oct 17 06:42:45 <DarkriftX> it hurt to laugh after the first few minutes
Oct 17 06:43:26 <languish> :\
Oct 17 06:43:43 <languish> sup yaki
Oct 17 06:53:15 <rjaym> is it true the g1 will only handle headset bluetooth functionality?, like you can't hook up a frogpad to it?
Oct 17 06:54:50 <languish> currently when it's first released that seems to be true
Oct 17 06:55:01 <languish> mroe functionality is likely to come with updates
Oct 17 06:55:03 <languish> *more
Oct 17 06:55:17 <rjaym> hm :/ doesn't sound promising :/
Oct 17 06:55:23 <languish> it's very promising
Oct 17 06:55:45 <languish> we'll get the majority of the functionality we want
Oct 17 06:55:55 <languish> this is just a 1,0 device
Oct 17 06:55:59 <languish> 1.0
Oct 17 06:56:31 <languish> they will be releasing fimrware updates for it, with additional features, functions and improvements
Oct 17 06:56:34 <rjaym> how about a NES emulator
Oct 17 06:56:50 <languish> pretty sure that'll happen eventually
Oct 17 06:57:06 <languish> gotta give the devs time to work
Oct 17 06:57:16 <languish> even the dev kit will be updated
Oct 17 06:57:24 <languish> and give the devs more tools to work with
Oct 17 06:58:37 <rjaym> I was sort of confused with a recent explanation of how the g1 will load independently developed apps, if not through the android marketplace
Oct 17 06:59:17 <rjaym> can I just throw an installation package on an SDHC chip, and just run it? or does it need to go through the market?
Oct 17 06:59:28 <languish> yeah, i'm not clear 100% on that either, but apperently you can load android apps that you download, not just from the marketplace
Oct 17 06:59:44 <languish> it doesn't need to go through the market
Oct 17 06:59:59 * rjaym nodnod
Oct 17 07:06:21 <DarkriftX> finding the developers for all these apps wont be easy :S
Oct 17 07:06:29 <DarkriftX> ive done 6  lol
Oct 17 07:06:35 <languish> heh
Oct 17 07:07:26 <languish> when the apps store is open, it'll be easier
Oct 17 07:07:34 <languish> err
Oct 17 07:07:39 <languish> android market :|
Oct 17 07:09:36 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 17 07:10:11 <DarkriftX> id love to get a developers release setup in the forums where developers each get their own mini forum to their own apps
Oct 17 07:11:36 <jt436> you will have a lot of forums ;)
Oct 17 07:11:54 <DarkriftX> wouldnt be bad
Oct 17 07:12:02 <languish> DarkriftX http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=android&section=projects
Oct 17 07:12:07 <languish> :|
Oct 17 07:12:21 <DarkriftX> a category where each developer gets his own forum and gets moderator in that forum and can control it as they wish
Oct 17 07:13:07 <jt436> as long as you have it an automated creation method, otherwise you'll spend everyday creating new forums
Oct 17 07:13:24 <DarkriftX> nah, devs would have to have a few releases already and would have to apply for it
Oct 17 07:13:31 <DarkriftX> not just anyone who writes a script would get a forum
Oct 17 07:13:41 <jt436> fair enough
Oct 17 07:13:50 <DarkriftX> like for example, the allbinary apps, there are a couple, that person would be a good choice
Oct 17 07:17:11 <muthu_> hierarchyviewer ROCKS
Oct 17 07:18:30 <romainguy> muthu_: if only I had time to finish it :)
Oct 17 07:18:48 <muthu_> do it pls, greatly helpful
Oct 17 07:19:15 <romainguy> unfortunately it's not my priority
Oct 17 07:19:22 <romainguy> and there's another tool I'd like to write first
Oct 17 07:19:26 <muthu_> ooh
Oct 17 07:19:28 <muthu_> what's that?
Oct 17 07:19:37 <languish> prongrabber
Oct 17 07:19:39 <languish> :)
Oct 17 07:19:44 <muthu_> oooh
Oct 17 07:19:47 <muthu_> nice
Oct 17 07:19:51 <languish> lulz
Oct 17 07:20:30 <romainguy> muthu_: I want to write a layout analyzer that would tell you how to change your XML files to make the layout use less views and be more efficient
Oct 17 07:20:44 <muthu_> wonderful
Oct 17 07:20:48 <muthu_> been thinking about that
Oct 17 07:21:08 <muthu_> but in general, we just make it work
Oct 17 07:21:30 <muthu_> am sure, i'm using tons of layout
Oct 17 07:21:41 <muthu_> not efficient at all
Oct 17 07:24:02 <muthu_> expandable list is buggy
Oct 17 07:24:13 <muthu_> its returning child view, for a parent view
Oct 17 07:24:18 <romainguy> uh?
Oct 17 07:24:24 <muthu_>         final TwoLineListItem listItem =
Oct 17 07:24:25 <muthu_>                 (TwoLineListItem) expandableListView.getAdapter()
Oct 17 07:24:25 <muthu_>                         .getView(i, null, null);
Oct 17 07:24:41 <muthu_> overrides onChildClick
Oct 17 07:24:52 <muthu_> 'i' is the group index
Oct 17 07:25:05 <romainguy> did you convert it though?
Oct 17 07:25:08 <muthu_> the cast fails, coz it returns a linearlayout which is achild view
Oct 17 07:25:13 <romainguy> the index has to be converted to a flat index
Oct 17 07:25:21 <muthu_> ha
Oct 17 07:25:21 <romainguy> ExpandableListView definitely works the way it should
Oct 17 07:25:29 <muthu_> ok
Oct 17 07:25:49 <muthu_> that's when i fired up hierarchyviewer and checked the layouts
Oct 17 07:25:56 <muthu_> brought back my sanity a bit ;)
Oct 17 07:40:14 <DarkriftX> languish, you around? opinions needed :)
Oct 17 08:07:06 * umdk1d3 wakes up
Oct 17 08:17:05 <DarkriftX> wb umdk1d3
Oct 17 08:17:17 <DarkriftX> hey, which apps are yours and whats a link to your site?
Oct 17 08:17:40 <DarkriftX> tryign to add author links on all files
Oct 17 08:33:51 <muthu_> yo umdk1d3
Oct 17 08:40:40 <languish> DarkriftX, hrm?
Oct 17 08:41:21 <DarkriftX> lol, your link is getting lots of attention
Oct 17 08:41:55 <DarkriftX> and i was looking for your input: http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=16&rb_v=viewforum
Oct 17 08:44:32 <languish> change the title of the post
Oct 17 08:45:05 <DarkriftX> suggestion?
Oct 17 08:45:05 <languish> "Developers, do you want your own forum for your app here?"
Oct 17 08:45:08 <DarkriftX> ahh
Oct 17 08:45:33 <languish> something like that
Oct 17 08:45:37 <languish> my brain is shutting down
Oct 17 08:47:29 <languish> DarkriftX, you really need to work on those run on sentence.
Oct 17 08:47:38 <languish> in your blogishes
Oct 17 08:47:42 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 17 08:47:52 <DarkriftX> thats my problem, i type how i talk
Oct 17 08:47:54 <languish> *sentences
Oct 17 08:48:00 <DarkriftX> and i can spit a lot in one sentance lol
Oct 17 08:48:01 <languish> most people do
Oct 17 08:48:06 <languish> :)
Oct 17 08:48:13 <DarkriftX> ppl look at me like "breath!"
Oct 17 08:48:26 <tomgibara> Can anyone confirm why getWallpaper() is on Context?
Oct 17 08:48:28 <tomgibara> Is it because applications are anticipated to theme themselves with it?
Oct 17 08:48:30 <languish> type it all up, then revise it into shorter chunks
Oct 17 08:49:12 <DarkriftX> thx for that link btw, im getting tons of visits from it :)
Oct 17 08:49:25 <DarkriftX> 50 since midnight (almsot 2 hours ago)
Oct 17 08:49:45 <languish> heh
Oct 17 09:37:52 <tomgibara> The theming that can be applied prior to launching an activity has some severe shortcomings :(
Oct 17 09:38:33 <romainguy> tomgibara: ??
Oct 17 09:40:15 <tomgibara> First a prelim. question: are applications anticipated to use Context.getWallpaper() for matching the user's graphical preferences?
Oct 17 09:40:50 <romainguy> er
Oct 17 09:40:55 <romainguy> depends if you want to show the wallpaper?
Oct 17 09:42:30 <tomgibara> Well, I'm writing an app that I wanted to be "super-lite" and useful (an exercise for myself in keeping things small and simple), and I thought that one way of making feel 'light' was to use the user's preferred background.
Oct 17 09:42:38 <tomgibara> Is this not sensible?
Oct 17 09:43:03 <romainguy> I don't see how it gives the feeling of lightness but sure :)
Oct 17 09:43:11 <romainguy> note that doing so has a drawback though
Oct 17 09:43:21 <romainguy> loading the wallpaper takes time
Oct 17 09:43:29 <romainguy> it's actually where Home spends most of its startup time
Oct 17 09:43:42 <tomgibara> Ah, I wondered where the delay was coming from
Oct 17 09:43:58 <romainguy> yeah, it's a big bitmap :)
Oct 17 09:44:39 <tomgibara> Okay, well assuming this is a valid idea - there appears to be no way of sensibly using android:windowBackground if you do this
Oct 17 09:44:49 <romainguy> actually
Oct 17 09:45:02 <romainguy> there is an attribute to tell the system you want to use the wallpaper as you window's background
Oct 17 09:45:14 <tomgibara> damn, I missed that
Oct 17 09:45:38 <romainguy> now there's a huge drawback to this
Oct 17 09:45:45 <tomgibara> which is :)
Oct 17 09:45:53 <romainguy> this feature was implemented at a time where wallpapers were the size of the screen
Oct 17 09:45:55 <romainguy> they are now large
Oct 17 09:45:56 <romainguy> larger
Oct 17 09:46:08 <romainguy> which means the wallpaper will be shrunk to fit the screen
Oct 17 09:46:19 <romainguy> I have yet to add an option to fix that
Oct 17 09:46:28 <romainguy> this opens a whole new can of worms though
Oct 17 09:46:33 <tomgibara> yuk :( Not really usable then
Oct 17 09:46:40 <romainguy> and slow to draw
Oct 17 09:46:50 <romainguy> because you probably want the wallpaper to be translated just like on the Home screen
Oct 17 09:46:58 <romainguy> which means Home needs to report the current visible part
Oct 17 09:47:03 <romainguy> which increases complexity
Oct 17 09:47:10 <romainguy> and makes Home replacements harder to write
Oct 17 09:47:11 <tomgibara> (what would be useful is if the context also exposed a  'preferred transform' for the wallpaper
Oct 17 09:47:36 <romainguy> so I'm not convinced about what to do yet :)
Oct 17 09:47:54 <tomgibara> yeah, I can see it's complicated
Oct 17 09:48:14 <romainguy> anyway
Oct 17 09:48:45 <tomgibara> Okay, so as I read the situation, there's no solution to my problem (yet)
Oct 17 09:49:20 <romainguy> well there is
Oct 17 09:49:23 <umdk1d3> well cant you use the dialog theme for your activity, similar to the voice dialer app?
Oct 17 09:49:23 <romainguy> don't use the wallpaper
Oct 17 09:49:24 <romainguy> or
Oct 17 09:49:31 <romainguy> set your window background to be totally transparent
Oct 17 09:49:35 <umdk1d3> that keeps it lightweight showing through to the desktop behind
Oct 17 09:49:41 <romainguy> and then set the wallpaper yourself
Oct 17 09:50:40 <tomgibara> I'd considered that and rejected it for some reason that's lost on me now - probably stupidity - I'lll give that a shit
Oct 17 09:50:44 <tomgibara> *shot!
Oct 17 09:50:49 <umdk1d3> here we go  tomgibara:  http://jkontherun.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/10/15/g1voicedial.jpg
Oct 17 09:50:51 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 17 09:51:22 <muthu_> hey nice
Oct 17 09:51:28 <muthu_> transparent background
Oct 17 09:51:34 <tomgibara> The second gripe I have is that the android:windowTitleStyle attribute ignores gravity
Oct 17 09:51:39 <romainguy> yeah but it also look like a dialog and not a raly app
Oct 17 09:52:01 <romainguy> -raly+real
Oct 17 09:52:22 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: Thanks for that, but I need it more app like
Oct 17 09:52:34 <muthu_> the dialog theme looks cool
Oct 17 09:52:50 <umdk1d3> yea, it all depends on what your going for
Oct 17 09:52:55 <tomgibara> That dialog does look very nice
Oct 17 09:53:44 * muthu_ changes everything to dialog now
Oct 17 09:54:31 <tomgibara> romainguy: I remember now, I set the window background to @color/transparent (#00000000) and it simply displayed a black background during the transition - did I do something wrong?
Oct 17 09:54:43 <umdk1d3> muthu_: it has its place, so dont go overboard with it
Oct 17 09:54:55 <muthu_> why? dialog looks nice
Oct 17 09:55:06 <muthu_> better than the opaque stuff
Oct 17 09:55:10 <romainguy> muthu_: but they look like *dialogs* not applications
Oct 17 09:55:19 <romainguy> and they make the screen look cluttered
Oct 17 09:55:23 <muthu_> yeah, that gives a lightweight feel
Oct 17 09:55:24 <umdk1d3> muthu_: regardless, you should fit into the UI pattern of other apps on the device
Oct 17 09:55:28 <romainguy> they are useful but as  umdk1d3 said, don't overuse them
Oct 17 09:55:33 <umdk1d3> so that people arent confused when they use your app
Oct 17 09:55:33 <romainguy> no, it doesn't give a lightweight feeling
Oct 17 09:55:40 <romainguy> it gives a false impression about your app
Oct 17 09:55:47 <muthu_> hmm
Oct 17 09:55:54 * muthu_ changes everything to default again
Oct 17 09:56:07 <romainguy> tomgibara: ah I remember running into this too, you need to use the Theme.Transparent or something like that
Oct 17 09:56:28 <tomgibara> muthu_: For what it's worth, this is what the app currently looks like: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/pinpoint/
Oct 17 09:56:54 <tomgibara> romainguy: Thanks for that tip - then the documentation is misleading since it implies that's set for you
Oct 17 09:57:26 <DarkriftX> wow, great idea
Oct 17 09:57:30 <tomgibara> romainguy: Any suggestion for the title gravity? Or is that something that's off limits?
Oct 17 09:57:34 <muthu_> tomgibara: looks nice
Oct 17 09:57:52 <romainguy> tomgibara: I don't remember what the style applies to
Oct 17 09:58:00 <romainguy> it could just be because the TextView is wrap_content
Oct 17 09:58:08 <romainguy> try using a layout_gravity instead
Oct 17 09:58:08 <DarkriftX> do you mind if i put it on my android downloads site tomgibara ?
Oct 17 09:58:16 <tomgibara> muthu_: I think it needs a bit of work :) That text box is not the best design.
Oct 17 09:58:19 <DarkriftX> ill put a link back to your site
Oct 17 09:58:53 <muthu_> tomgibara: like your new simplistic approach
Oct 17 09:59:01 <muthu_> smaller, simple apps
Oct 17 09:59:15 <tomgibara> DrakriftX: If that site is targetted at phone users, then no, please don't, since it isn't a tested or supported app (yet)
Oct 17 09:59:42 <tomgibara> romainguy: Thanks a lot for your insights (as ever)
Oct 17 09:59:50 <romainguy> no pb
Oct 17 09:59:54 <romainguy> sorry for these issues :)
Oct 17 10:00:03 <DarkriftX> its android in general and lots of apps are beta, but ill check back in a week or so to see how its coming
Oct 17 10:00:26 <DarkriftX> great idea for an app....
Oct 17 10:00:44 <tomgibara> romainguy: polishing takes a lot of effort and a long time :)
Oct 17 10:00:52 <romainguy> yeah, that it does
Oct 17 10:02:14 <tomgibara> DarkriftX: I tried to think of the smallest, simplest application that would be useful to me, and that's what I came up with - I'm quite absent minded and likely to misplace my G1 (when I have one)
Oct 17 10:02:53 <DarkriftX> what about adding a way to email it and get location? incase you cannot find someone with text messaging around
Oct 17 10:03:19 <DarkriftX> thats gonna be great when i get a g1
Oct 17 10:03:30 <DarkriftX> ill let the wife barrow it sometimes and spook her later telling her where she was
Oct 17 10:03:35 <DarkriftX> borrow*
Oct 17 10:04:10 <tomgibara> The application used to be much bigger and had those functions and I basically stripped everything out, including that :)
Oct 17 10:04:16 <DarkriftX> i c
Oct 17 10:04:59 <tomgibara> I may add features back in, but unless I keep it very small initially, I won't have time to give it the attention it needs to make it suitable for mass distribution.
Oct 17 10:05:19 <DarkriftX> true
Oct 17 10:05:46 <DarkriftX> question, if you text message it with your pin, does the person with the phone see the pin?
Oct 17 10:05:47 <tomgibara> Also, as designed, it doesn't do anything in the background - it's entirely passive until an SMS comes in
Oct 17 10:05:56 <DarkriftX> or does the app intercept and remove/hide it
Oct 17 10:06:03 <tomgibara> yes, they see the pin
Oct 17 10:06:10 <muthu_> tomgibara: looks like a killer app to me
Oct 17 10:06:12 <muthu_> very useful
Oct 17 10:06:16 <DarkriftX> hell yeah
Oct 17 10:06:28 <tomgibara> The SMS is treated just as any other SMS.
Oct 17 10:07:15 <tomgibara> The person sending the SMS can send you a message _and_ include the "locate pin" anywhere inside the message
Oct 17 10:07:28 <DarkriftX> oh, nice
Oct 17 10:08:25 <DarkriftX> do they need to be together? eg: hey, where are you, ive been trying to locate you all day, im at <pin> n 3rd street, come pick me up
Oct 17 10:08:52 <tomgibara> yes, they need to be adjacent
Oct 17 10:09:00 <tomgibara> but the number spaces between can vary
Oct 17 10:10:11 <tomgibara> in principle it will respond to the word for "locate" in the phone user's locale's language - but I haven't got any language in there other than English.
Oct 17 10:10:29 <DarkriftX> nice
Oct 17 10:10:55 <DarkriftX> ill keep checking your site for when its completed so i can add it to my site
Oct 17 10:11:10 <DarkriftX> trying to create the most complete android downloads site i can
Oct 17 10:11:34 <tomgibara> DarkriftX: Well, I haven't decided anything about distribution yet.
Oct 17 10:11:37 <tomgibara> For example:
Oct 17 10:12:07 <praveend> hi
Oct 17 10:12:16 <tomgibara> It uses Intents for receiving SMS messages that were removed from the 1.0 SDK but still work
Oct 17 10:13:01 <DarkriftX> i c
Oct 17 10:13:01 <praveend> any one working on porting android to samsung processors
Oct 17 10:13:12 <tomgibara> Until I have a hint from Google that they intend to support that functionality in the future (whether it's the same API or not), I'm unlikely to release it.
Oct 17 10:16:00 <tomgibara> Also, I might try selling the app - I just haven't decided :)
Oct 17 10:17:09 <tomgibara> muthu_: how is mobeegal progressing?
Oct 17 10:17:25 <muthu_> still early stages
Oct 17 10:17:33 <muthu_> but planning to put something on 22
Oct 17 10:17:45 <muthu_> mobeegal is huge.. takes a long time
Oct 17 10:17:55 <muthu_> so approaching step by step
Oct 17 10:18:02 <muthu_> me and tu are working on it
Oct 17 10:18:28 <muthu_> right now we are focusing on search
Oct 17 10:18:32 <tomgibara> I'm in a similar position with moseycode big -> slow
Oct 17 10:18:41 <muthu_> exactly
Oct 17 10:18:50 <tomgibara> That's why I wanted something at the other end of the spectrum :)
Oct 17 10:19:10 <muthu_> yeah, either one of the approaches would be fine
Oct 17 10:19:28 <muthu_> i'm taking the bigger vision path
Oct 17 10:19:59 <muthu_> honestly it'll take atleast a year to figure it out
Oct 17 10:20:24 <tomgibara> so the 22nd you mentioned above is 22/10/2009?
Oct 17 10:20:25 <muthu_> tomgibara: what's up for adc2?
Oct 17 10:20:26 <tomgibara> :)
Oct 17 10:20:39 <muthu_> yep :))
Oct 17 10:20:48 <tomgibara> muthu_: You mean me personally for the adc2?
Oct 17 10:20:59 <muthu_> yeah, planning something for adc2?
Oct 17 10:21:28 <muthu_> 250k on the line ;)
Oct 17 10:21:31 <tomgibara> Not until I see the terms, but I doubt if it could be anything other than moseycode, it's all I'd have time for!
Oct 17 10:21:53 <muthu_> am sure, adc2 will require apps not in market or published
Oct 17 10:21:54 <tomgibara> It might be 100,000 $50 prizes, who knows?
Oct 17 10:22:10 <muthu_> the terms would be similar
Oct 17 10:22:23 <tomgibara> I don't see a basis for that
Oct 17 10:22:33 <muthu_> since goog will be comfortable handling the same pattern now
Oct 17 10:23:11 <tomgibara> Anyway, I'm constantly working on different angles on moseycode - I came up with this at the weekend: http://www.tomgibara.com/computer-vision/rotary.pdf
Oct 17 10:23:21 <tomgibara> (don't really expect you to read that)
Oct 17 10:23:26 <muthu_> haha
Oct 17 10:23:31 <muthu_> will take a look when free
Oct 17 10:23:45 <tomgibara> I'm planning on combining it with OCR
Oct 17 10:23:59 <tomgibara> muthu_: I wouldn't bother, just look at the pictures
Oct 17 10:24:01 <umdk1d3> tomgibara: latex  =D
Oct 17 10:24:11 <umdk1d3> are you thinking about publishing?
Oct 17 10:24:28 <tomgibara> no, I use it for all my mathematical documentation
Oct 17 10:24:39 <umdk1d3> <3 latex
Oct 17 10:25:05 <tomgibara> Though I'm excited to say, that there is nothing in literature that I can find, so it might be genuinely new
Oct 17 10:25:29 <tomgibara> but who's going to publish it?
Oct 17 10:25:30 <umdk1d3> do you have access to acm/ieee journals?
Oct 17 10:25:38 <tomgibara> no :(
Oct 17 10:25:44 <umdk1d3> thats the one thing driving me nuts about scholar.google.com
Oct 17 10:25:52 <tomgibara> Obviously the abstracts come up on searches.
Oct 17 10:26:04 <umdk1d3> i had to hack together a greasemonkey script to  proxy through an edu account i still have
Oct 17 10:26:26 <tomgibara> I totally agree with you about scholar.google.com
Oct 17 10:26:57 <umdk1d3> at least it does fulltext searching tho  ^.^
Oct 17 10:27:24 <tomgibara> To be fair, I'm not a scholar, I'm a programmer.
Oct 17 10:30:18 <umdk1d3> tomgibara: when you mention "loss", is there some redunancy/error detection in the coding?
Oct 17 10:31:44 <tomgibara> There's no error detection, but there are (possibly - not demonstrated any yet) some larger sets of patterns that have the same properties
Oct 17 10:32:32 <tomgibara> You want to use the largest set of patterns since each pattern allows you to store a single value
Oct 17 10:33:08 <tomgibara> What I did was use an informal argument (which I strongly suspect is correct) to establish how big a 'perfect' set could be
Oct 17 10:33:41 <umdk1d3> hmm
Oct 17 10:33:43 <tomgibara> the efficiency/loss quoted is in relation to that
Oct 17 10:34:01 <umdk1d3> ohh ic
Oct 17 10:35:14 <umdk1d3> youve talked with dan @ google in the past, right?
Oct 17 10:35:20 <umdk1d3> he might be interested in this
Oct 17 10:35:24 <tomgibara> I'm afraid the document is hastily written - it's more documentation for me than anything else, but I post them because someone else might just find them useful.
Oct 17 10:35:48 <tomgibara> Dan Morrill?
Oct 17 10:35:55 <umdk1d3> sry daniel s.
Oct 17 10:36:14 <umdk1d3> worked on zxing
Oct 17 10:36:42 <tomgibara> Yes, I think I've had brief email correspondence iirc.
Oct 17 11:07:36 <Kizoomer121> hey all. How would i delete all rows from a TableLayout? Do i have to iterate through?
Oct 17 11:12:17 <Kizoomer121> ahhh, perhaps removeAllViewsInLayout
Oct 17 13:44:29 <zhobbs> I wonder how much slower moving through a Cursor is compared to an ArrayList...
Oct 17 13:45:22 <umdk1d3> Cursor is just an interface  ;)
Oct 17 13:45:29 <umdk1d3> it could be arraylist backed
Oct 17 13:45:39 <zhobbs> sorry, SqlLiteCursor
Oct 17 13:45:42 <umdk1d3> but i know what you mean--when its backed by sqlite
Oct 17 13:46:15 <zhobbs> or SQLiteCursor
Oct 17 13:46:34 <umdk1d3> well i think the cursor exists in memory, because its an already-run query
Oct 17 13:46:43 <umdk1d3> so it should be pretty fast
Oct 17 13:47:41 <jasta> umdk1d3: actually, sqlite3 doesn't hold the result set in memory
Oct 17 13:48:17 <jasta> it is more a reference to the result set, but stepping through a statement will be performing reads normally.
Oct 17 13:48:23 <umdk1d3> oh interesting
Oct 17 13:48:32 <umdk1d3> makes sense for larger queries
Oct 17 13:48:37 <jasta> (and this is how most engines work)
Oct 17 13:48:40 <zhobbs> yeah, I was assuming it wasn't in memory
Oct 17 13:49:01 <jasta> zhobbs: so, in that sense, stepping has the overhead of disk I/O, which is *WAY* heavier than memory I/O :)
Oct 17 13:49:02 <tomgibara> jasta: I have no evidence for this, but I'm assuming that internally it pages results
Oct 17 13:49:39 <jasta> tomgibara: yes, it does.  but its algorithm is pretty inefficient at dealing with alrge result sets, which is why they recommend you not store large BLOBs.
Oct 17 13:50:59 <jasta> bbl, more sleep :)
Oct 17 13:51:22 <jasta> tomgibara: rather, imeant at large result rows.  the set size is irrelevant
Oct 17 13:51:39 <tomgibara> I understood what you meant :)
Oct 17 15:06:43 <Disconnect> neat. the j2me 'microemulator' for android can run opera mini
Oct 17 15:07:34 <wastrel> finally a decent browser
Oct 17 15:07:55 <unix_lappy> meh, it's friday, if rumors are true people should start chiming in about unboxing their new toys.
Oct 17 15:08:57 <zhobbs> yeah, wonder if that'll happen
Oct 17 15:11:02 <Disconnect> mine still says "shipping info" :(
Oct 17 15:11:40 <summatusmentis> wastrel: did you order one?
Oct 17 15:12:01 <wastrel> summatusmentis: i'm not an existing t-mob customer
Oct 17 15:12:10 <wastrel> have to wait til 22nd & stand in line
Oct 17 15:14:37 <summatusmentis> oh, that's annoying
Oct 17 15:16:01 <umdk1d3> ooh there appears to be an unknown <manifest> attribs that helps describe your app across the system
Oct 17 15:17:31 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: such as?
Oct 17 15:19:19 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: i dont know yet, lol
Oct 17 15:19:22 <umdk1d3> there is only one app using it
Oct 17 15:19:28 * umdk1d3 digs into apk manifest
Oct 17 15:21:36 <umdk1d3> grr wbxml2xml isnt happy with androids custom format
Oct 17 15:21:49 <umdk1d3> anyone else have a good xml decoder for taht stuff?
Oct 17 15:21:56 <umdk1d3> i thought i saw somewhere that it was wbxml
Oct 17 15:22:15 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: jasta wrote one
Oct 17 15:23:16 * umdk1d3 pokes jasta 
Oct 17 15:23:26 <umdk1d3> it /looks/ like android:description
Oct 17 15:23:48 <umdk1d3> and it then shows up in settings -> applications -> manage list
Oct 17 15:23:56 <michaelnovakjr_> http://code.google.com/p/android-random
Oct 17 15:24:02 <zhobbs> http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/tool-to-read-android-binary-xml-files.html
Oct 17 15:24:09 <umdk1d3> yay  axml2xml.pl
Oct 17 15:24:13 <michaelnovakjr_> umdk1d3: http://code.google.com/p/android-random/downloads/list
Oct 17 15:24:16 <michaelnovakjr_> download is there
Oct 17 15:24:29 <umdk1d3> awesome michaelnovakjr_ thx  :)
Oct 17 15:24:34 <michaelnovakjr_> no problem
Oct 17 15:26:49 <umdk1d3> o.o  Out of memory during array extend at ../axml2xml.pl line 314, <> chunk 1.
Oct 17 15:32:39 <zhobbs> 4GB micro sd $11: http://www.woot.com/
Oct 17 15:35:22 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: after shipping>?
Oct 17 15:35:37 <umdk1d3> ooh yes, $11 total  =D
Oct 17 15:36:09 <michaelnovakjr_> not bad
Oct 17 15:37:40 <summatusmentis> I'm still decided if I should
Oct 17 15:39:20 <ttuttle> Hey.
Oct 17 15:44:56 <wastrel> ah the woot i was thinking of getting that
Oct 17 15:45:02 <wastrel> i have a 250MB micro sd
Oct 17 15:45:13 <Disconnect> $4 each for up to 3 of them, flat $5 shipping
Oct 17 15:45:26 <Disconnect> but i've got 2 4g microsd already so..
Oct 17 15:45:43 <jasonchen> umdk1d3: if you want to read the AndroidManifest.xml file in an existing .apk, you can just use aapt
Oct 17 15:46:22 <umdk1d3> ooh /me tries
Oct 17 15:47:12 <jasonchen> aapt dump xmltree filename.apk AndroidManifest.xml
Oct 17 15:47:32 <umdk1d3> aha there we go, so if you put android:description  into your <application> tag, it will be helpful to users in other places on the system
Oct 17 15:47:51 <umdk1d3> ive only seen *one* other app doing this so far
Oct 17 15:48:48 <umdk1d3> specifically in "manage applications", where people are deciding what to put on the chopping block  ;)
Oct 17 15:50:17 <unix_lappy> jasonchen: was watching your Android 101 talk from IO last night, major props ;-)
Oct 17 15:53:33 <jasonchen> unix_lappy: thanks!
Oct 17 15:53:55 <unix_lappy> "thank you mac os" :-P
Oct 17 15:54:18 <jasonchen> unix_lappy: haha.  you're referring to my other talk where the laptop crashes?
Oct 17 15:56:42 * ttuttle purchased an 8 GB Transcend microSDHC from Newegg for a little over $30 shipped.
Oct 17 15:56:55 <unix_lappy> haha, yea.
Oct 17 15:57:34 <unix_lappy> definitely one of those coding under pressure moments that we all enjoy.
Oct 17 15:59:06 <ttuttle> Question:
Oct 17 15:59:19 <ttuttle> Is it a bad idea to do qb.appendWhere("id=" + uri.getPathSegments().get(1))/
Oct 17 15:59:28 <ttuttle> Could someone sneak in an SQL injection attach?
Oct 17 15:59:45 <umdk1d3> ideally you would check for the injection on the server side?
Oct 17 15:59:59 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: This is on the device, in a ContentProvider.
Oct 17 16:00:01 <michaelnovakjr_> you should scrub any data going into a db
Oct 17 16:00:48 <umdk1d3> doesnt the query builder automatically escape stuff if you use it correctly?  (with "?" in the string, then filled later with String[])
Oct 17 16:01:03 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: Ooh, that sounds useful.  Lemme try it.
Oct 17 16:01:09 <ttuttle> Oh, duh.
Oct 17 16:01:13 <ttuttle> Use Integer.parseInt first.
Oct 17 16:01:44 <umdk1d3> sqlitedatabase.query() takes String[]
Oct 17 16:02:20 <umdk1d3> i dont see it talking about any injection prevention, but it seems like the pattern they would use to provide it
Oct 17 16:05:37 <ttuttle> Hey.
Oct 17 16:05:49 <ttuttle> Is there any reason I couldn't build a ContentProvider that is backed by a web service instead of a database?
Oct 17 16:06:08 <wastrel> can't use your app in the subway
Oct 17 16:06:21 <ttuttle> True.
Oct 17 16:06:35 <ttuttle> This wouldn't replace the database one.
Oct 17 16:06:48 <ttuttle> It would be instead of just a regular boring class to query the web interface.
Oct 17 16:08:54 <unix_lappy> ttuttle: I hope you can do that, been meaning to try that out today.
Oct 17 16:14:21 <ttuttle> unix_lappy: What do you mean?
Oct 17 16:25:03 <ttuttle> Why does query take both a uri and the selection stuff
Oct 17 16:25:04 <ttuttle> ?
Oct 17 16:26:31 <jasta> because its a leaky abstraction
Oct 17 16:26:45 <ttuttle> Yeah, it seems so.
Oct 17 16:27:00 <ttuttle> I can't really imagine using a ContentProvider for anything but an SQL database.
Oct 17 16:27:52 <jasta> imo it's a _very_ weak point of Android's otherwise very elegant design
Oct 17 16:29:26 <ttuttle> Hopefully it'll be redesigned for 2.0.
Oct 17 16:31:20 <jasta> fortunately android will be open source which will make investigating contentproviders much easier :)
Oct 17 16:31:52 <jasta> documenting a contentprovider is essentially impossible short of simply showing developers what query is being performed.  the abstractions are way too flimsy for anything else
Oct 17 16:36:20 <ttuttle> Yeah, I feel like accepting arguments that are snippets of SQL and returning a Cursor is pretty much giving up on allowing non-SQLite queryproviders ;-)
Oct 17 16:37:54 <muthu_> it don't have to be snippets of sql
Oct 17 16:38:03 <muthu_> you can do whatever behind the scenes
Oct 17 16:38:40 <muthu_> if its a web service, then you would not deal with sql
Oct 17 16:38:49 <ttuttle> muthu_: Hmm.
Oct 17 16:38:58 <ttuttle> muthu_: So what format is the "selection" argument to query?
Oct 17 16:39:20 <cbeust> Whatever the content provider understands
Oct 17 16:39:29 <cbeust> as muthu says, it doesn't have to be an SQL fragment
Oct 17 16:39:33 <ttuttle> Hrm, okay.
Oct 17 16:39:35 <cbeust> although most probably will
Oct 17 16:39:49 <ttuttle> Hrm.
Oct 17 16:40:59 <muthu_> yeah mostly content providers are for db
Oct 17 16:45:31 <ttuttle> ContentProviders are annoying.
Oct 17 16:45:45 <ttuttle> They're just "SQL situps".
Oct 17 16:46:40 <zhobbs> romainguy___: if I add a View to my Activity via the WindowManager should I have to do anything different as far as View.startAnimation?  It's not animating for some reason...
Oct 17 16:46:48 <muthu_> ttuttle: not really, as you said you can use it with a webservice
Oct 17 16:46:57 <ttuttle> muthu_: Yeah, but they're not designed for that.
Oct 17 16:48:39 * ttuttle should try writing a contentprovider for isbndb.com.
Oct 17 16:57:45 <jasta> ttuttle: that's precisely why the abstraction is so bad :)
Oct 17 16:58:39 <cbeust> jasta: I agree, it's a leaky abstraction, you are welcome to suggest something better...
Oct 17 16:59:15 <cbeust> I didn't really like it when the design started going down that road, but I was never able to come up with something better
Oct 17 16:59:29 <jasta> well it's a tricky problem space.  you want to generalize access to data, but such an obtuse generalization will surely be impossible to use and horribly inefficient
Oct 17 16:59:39 <cbeust> Exactly.
Oct 17 16:59:47 <ttuttle> cbeust: So, I feel like ContentValues is good, but the selection arguments are lame.
Oct 17 16:59:59 <cbeust> And RDBMS can take you very far in this direction, so it seems like a decent foundation for an abstraction, no matter how leaky
Oct 17 17:00:27 <jasta> i think there is an improvement waiting to come out there, i just haven't given enough thought to what might be a better strategy
Oct 17 17:00:38 <jasta> in the mean time, however, the documentation *ON* contentproviders is absolutely essential
Oct 17 17:00:45 <jasta> without knowing the schema and queries underneath it, it is UNUSABLE
Oct 17 17:01:03 <jasta> so, if you're going to support your own leaky abstraction you at least need to make your documentation equally leaky
Oct 17 17:03:59 <jasta> even my own contentproviders i find i constantly need to go back and examine what in the hell the queries are actually doing
Oct 17 17:04:59 <muthu_> will there be a hibernate for android?
Oct 17 17:05:00 <jasta> also, the support tools you guys use to tidy up this generalization aren't especially consistent.  for example, the projectionmap should be applicable to selection and orderby columns
Oct 17 17:05:19 <cbeust> muthu_: seems a bit overkill, but who knows
Oct 17 17:05:30 <muthu_> yeah, hibernate is neat
Oct 17 17:05:35 <muthu_> might be heavy
Oct 17 17:05:36 <jasta> so if i have a query for some contenturi and i want to sort it a different way or where something else out of it, i need to use the name of the table to disambiguate
Oct 17 17:05:39 <michaelnovakjr_> hibernate??
Oct 17 17:05:41 <michaelnovakjr_> why
Oct 17 17:05:51 <cbeust> Make ORM a bit easier
Oct 17 17:06:03 <michaelnovakjr_> at the cost of performance though
Oct 17 17:06:07 <cbeust> I have a lot of manual SELECTS and stuff in my code, might be nice to have a thin layer of abstraction
Oct 17 17:06:13 <jasta> so like resolver.query(uri, ..., "a.track_num ASC");  -- the projection map knows track_num => a.track_num, so why can't i just ask for it that way?
Oct 17 17:06:16 <cbeust> just wondering if performance and memory won't suffer too much
Oct 17 17:06:17 <michaelnovakjr_> you could easily write it better
Oct 17 17:06:36 <michaelnovakjr_> separate db stuff in its own classes
Oct 17 17:06:45 <cbeust> Since we support annotations in Android, a thin layer is not out of the question
Oct 17 17:07:00 <muthu_> yeah, hibernate lite
Oct 17 17:07:23 <michaelnovakjr_> ?
Oct 17 17:07:41 <muthu_> michaelnovakjr_: currently orm is non existent in android
Oct 17 17:07:56 <muthu_> so something along those lines would be nice
Oct 17 17:08:01 <michaelnovakjr_> not really
Oct 17 17:08:06 <michaelnovakjr_> its just not handed to you
Oct 17 17:08:30 <michaelnovakjr_> if you write the same query more than once you are doing something wrong
Oct 17 17:09:06 * jasta raises his hand and says "guilty"
Oct 17 17:09:38 <jasta> my database management is tragically specialized.  part of me wants to believe its because generalized abstractions are going to be too inefficient
Oct 17 17:09:39 <michaelnovakjr_> i use db classes in my apps.... whether people agree with it or not.... it keeps things nice and neat
Oct 17 17:09:42 <jasta> but really i'm just being lame :)
Oct 17 17:10:12 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm sure my stuff can be optimized but it is at least neat
Oct 17 17:11:22 <cbeust> Speaking of which, new Android post on our blog:  http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2008/10/google-on-android-gmail-and-contacts.html
Oct 17 17:11:55 <michaelnovakjr_> my Messages app i wrote for the vogue uses methods in a class that run queries.... so in the other parts of the app i can use method calls instead of writing queries
Oct 17 17:12:36 <jasta> cbeust: "We envisioned a world where your various computers and phones would always be in sync without needing discipline, USB cables, Bluetooth, and synchronization software."
Oct 17 17:12:50 <jasta> this statement really embodies why i created Five
Oct 17 17:12:50 <cbeust> Like that? :)
Oct 17 17:13:30 <jasta> i'd like to think i'm taking the concept much further :)
Oct 17 17:14:47 <Disconnect> damnit. now i remember why i stopped coding for a living. eats my brain and my time and my life :/ i've already got a list of about 10 utils and 3-4 proper apps that i need to write for android. except i have a wif and a house and a (fairly demanding) job and all that.. doh
Oct 17 17:15:15 <Disconnect> but i think i'm gonna orphan my flashcard app for now, let tea.ch run unopposed (instead of just effectively unopposed :) ..)
Oct 17 17:15:20 <jasta> Disconnect: yeah, its a bitch.  pick 1 project and do it well.  then quit your job and get someone to pay you to write the rest of them :)
Oct 17 17:15:45 <Disconnect> yah tempting. some of the utils will be worth $1-$5, most will be free, and the apps.. i'm not sure i want to get deep into that mess again but i might :)
Oct 17 17:15:57 <cbeust> Disconnect:  I have a wife, a house, a dog and a World of Warcraft addiction. The only solution is to sleep less :)
Oct 17 17:16:35 <jasta> i'm not sure how WoW and wife are compatible.  all the WoW people i know are desperately alone :)
Oct 17 17:17:06 <jasta> but i do occassionally get sucked into games.  Dougie187 and I were playing Diablo II like every day while I waited for the next SDK to drop :)
Oct 17 17:17:29 <Disconnect> cbeust: i already do that. but lets look at a random week (last week).. sun ended at 2am, mon stated at 5:30-6am. work until get to PT at 7, then home at 8. 30 mins for a beer and a chill on the couch, then dinner, brief tv/rss catchup time, then 1 hour of coding, bed by 1. repeat until fri. (dinner guest wed so 2:30am instead of 1am..)
Oct 17 17:18:28 <Disconnect> cbeust: friday, basically the same. sat, up early, clean house, rennfest (rennfest.com is right up the road), 7:30pm half the world comes over for food/drink/hottub. that ended at 6am. up for skins game (don't want to talk about it) at 1030. then post-faire people again until 1. repeat @ monday..
Oct 17 17:18:44 <Disconnect> overall i get about 3 hours a week to spend coding. gonna try to get a netbook and up that (metro time) but .. ugh.
Oct 17 17:19:09 <zhobbs> seems like it'd be hard to code on the metro
Oct 17 17:19:23 <invain> hi
Oct 17 17:19:36 <invain> knock..
Oct 17 17:19:37 <Disconnect> nah its pretty simple. but i'm not whipping out and juggling a 17" mbp :)
Oct 17 17:19:42 <jasta> Disconnect: i get about 4-5 hours a week on normal week, but this past month i have been asking for *lots* more time from my gf
Oct 17 17:19:48 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 17 17:19:55 <jasta> for instance, she's leaving tonight at 8 and coming back Sunday at 10pm :)
Oct 17 17:20:03 <jasta> and all my housemates are going to portland
Oct 17 17:20:05 <jasta> so i can really focus :)
Oct 17 17:20:05 <Disconnect> nice
Oct 17 17:20:10 <jasta> trying to get ready for Wed :)
Oct 17 17:20:14 <jasta> (which i took off work *grin*)
Oct 17 17:20:33 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 17 17:20:38 <Disconnect> thats right, you're doing hte in-line thing
Oct 17 17:20:41 <herriojr> how do I inform a content observer of what row was modified without having an observer for each and every row?
Oct 17 17:21:27 <herriojr> can I have the listener listen to content://com.something.object/# and that will do it?
Oct 17 17:22:33 <jasta> i was wondering about this myself
Oct 17 17:22:40 <jasta> the observer framework feels very superficial
Oct 17 17:29:21 <herriojr> I see that you can listen for a specific row, but I don't want to create a listener for each and every row
Oct 17 17:44:07 * Disconnect would have more time for coding if he spent less time reloading the ups tracking page :)
Oct 17 17:44:31 <blount> hahaha
Oct 17 17:44:31 <DarkriftX> LOL
Oct 17 17:44:44 <DarkriftX> waiting on your G1?
Oct 17 17:46:38 <Lenolium> Disconnect: I'm 100% with you on that one.
Oct 17 17:46:44 <zhobbs> Disconnect: when you supposed to get it?
Oct 17 17:47:02 <herriojr> I should have mine today or monday I think
Oct 17 17:48:30 * Disconnect is still at "received billing info" 
Oct 17 17:48:39 <Disconnect> so chances are good its still palletized on a truck headed for atlanta :/
Oct 17 17:48:55 <Disconnect> once i've gotten a ground shipment delivered before it got listead as unpalletized/existing but only once..
Oct 17 17:49:08 <DarkriftX> every time you do /me i think i was "disconnected"
Oct 17 17:49:19 <Disconnect> so far, for the record, it has taken longer from printing (10/15) to delivery (sometime after the weekend) than any of my 3 orders from brando in hong kong...
Oct 17 17:49:21 <wastrel> i'm hoping there's not a line at the t-mob store on wed. :/
Oct 17 17:49:22 <DarkriftX> it shows up like my system messages do
Oct 17 17:49:45 * Disconnect ed by peer.
Oct 17 17:49:52 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 17 17:50:18 * Disconnect ed for excess idle. Enter nickserv password to reconnect: 
Oct 17 17:50:48 <muthu_> g123
Oct 17 17:51:00 <zhobbs> is there a way to get the versionName from your <manifest> ?
Oct 17 17:51:17 <zhobbs> (in code)
Oct 17 17:51:25 <DarkriftX> who here is going to be doing reviews on their g1 when they get it?
Oct 17 17:51:54 <herriojr> not I
Oct 17 17:51:55 <plusminus_> I planned to, but I was gone over with the review-devices :)
Oct 17 17:51:59 <herriojr> too busy coding :)
Oct 17 17:52:14 <DarkriftX> heh, thats not a bad thing herriojr
Oct 17 17:52:33 * Disconnect will prolly do some microblogging on it but nothing major
Oct 17 17:53:17 <Disconnect> whats the (effective) standard these days - controls at the top of the screen or at the bottom?
Oct 17 17:53:39 * Disconnect is thinking bottom, since the menu can cover it so its not doubley-wastful
Oct 17 17:53:40 <DarkriftX> what kind of controls?
Oct 17 17:53:41 <Disconnect> wasteful
Oct 17 17:54:07 <Disconnect> most-used buttons (eg - for the flashcard app - "next card" "last card" "hint" .. things that don't belong behind a menu)
Oct 17 17:54:22 <Lenolium> Disconnect: Bah, just use gestures.
Oct 17 17:54:32 <wastrel> gestures too
Oct 17 17:55:12 <Lenolium> Disconnect: Mine moved from "Billing Information Received" to "Delivery Rescheduled" today. It made me so happy.
Oct 17 17:56:43 <Disconnect> Lenolium: cool
Oct 17 17:56:50 <Disconnect> when is the resched? :)
Oct 17 17:56:56 <Lenolium> Disconnect: the 21st
Oct 17 17:57:07 <DarkriftX> ouch
Oct 17 17:57:08 <Disconnect> and gestures are all well and good (and i intend to take advantage) but sometimes you need a button :)
Oct 17 17:57:26 <Disconnect> Lenolium: if you call them up you may be able to get hold-for-pickup at the local dist center, get it today/tomorrow
Oct 17 17:57:27 <DarkriftX> id be going nuts waiting right now
Oct 17 17:57:35 <DarkriftX> thats what i do lol
Oct 17 17:57:43 <DarkriftX> "you are slow, where is it, ill get it myself"
Oct 17 17:57:54 * Disconnect is going with bottom.. this (unlike flashcards) is an app i'll use a lot, so if that sucks it'll get moved :)
Oct 17 17:58:03 <Lenolium> Disconnect: Oh, it's rescheduled because the billing information was received so long ago and had a scheduled delivery date of the 17th.
Oct 17 17:58:14 <DarkriftX> did you write the flashcards app?
Oct 17 17:59:25 <Disconnect> DarkriftX: not tea.ch, i was writing a quickie one to get back into java with. just not worth releasing it :) although for only 25c you too can have a flashcard app with pre-determined flashcards. i'll even edit them for you so they don't say things like "1front of card is looooooooooooooooooooooooong long front 111111" and so forth :)
Oct 17 17:59:48 <DarkriftX> LOL
Oct 17 18:00:04 <DarkriftX> i was just wondering because im trying to find developer info for the apps i have on my site
Oct 17 18:00:22 <DarkriftX> putting "Authors Site:" on each one, but not all authors are easy to track down
Oct 17 18:01:49 <herriojr> ok, I can see how a contentobserver can be called when descendents are acted upon, but I can't find a way for the contentobserver to know exactly which row was modified
Oct 17 18:02:51 <herriojr> has anyone else had experience with contentobservers?
Oct 17 18:03:45 <jasta> sigh, stinkin' mediaplayer
Oct 17 18:03:55 <jasta> it's relaly disappointing that ogg streaming wasnt implemented
Oct 17 18:05:00 <pjv> DarkriftX: Which is your site again?
Oct 17 18:09:36 <zhobbs> anyone here interested in helping on HelloAndroid.com....I pretty much have no time, and now that my job is Android it's even harder to get motivated
Oct 17 18:10:09 <zhobbs> s/.../? /
Oct 17 18:10:09 <infobot> zhobbs meant: anyone here interested in helping on HelloAndroid.com? .I pretty much have no time, and now that my job is Android it's even harder to get motivated
Oct 17 18:11:47 <pjv> zhobbs: help in what way? what kind of commitment?
Oct 17 18:12:59 <zhobbs> pjv: no commitment...just would like to move it from "my" site to be the community's site instead
Oct 17 18:13:05 <zhobbs> targeted at developers
Oct 17 18:13:19 <wastrel> omfg
Oct 17 18:13:25 <wastrel> this is a foo statement
Oct 17 18:13:28 <wastrel> s/foo//
Oct 17 18:13:28 <infobot> wastrel meant: this is a  statement
Oct 17 18:13:30 <zhobbs> so...developer news, tutorials, tech articles, etc
Oct 17 18:14:19 <wastrel> android eh
Oct 17 18:14:23 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: i'm sure you could get nice coin for the domain...
Oct 17 18:14:42 <zhobbs> hmm, I wonder
Oct 17 18:14:54 <wastrel> no commitment, i can commit to that
Oct 17 18:16:24 <zhobbs> hehe, helloiphone.com is taken!
Oct 17 18:16:30 <zhobbs> should have grabbed that too
Oct 17 18:16:39 <michaelnovakjr_> androidnerds.com
Oct 17 18:16:47 <michaelnovakjr_> still trying to figure out what to do with it
Oct 17 18:16:49 <pjv> maybe, you and plusminus should sit together and unite forces (just a suggestion)?
Oct 17 18:17:04 <pjv> he's great at forums and tutorials
Oct 17 18:17:09 <zhobbs> yep
Oct 17 18:17:23 <pjv> while you have the app db and the ideas tracker and some better presented tutorials
Oct 17 18:17:48 <zhobbs> app db will probably go away because of Market
Oct 17 18:17:50 <pjv> I'm sure 1 big site would be better than 2 small
Oct 17 18:18:01 <pjv> (also in ads revenu)
Oct 17 18:18:26 <pjv> app db go away? please no, I would really not like that
Oct 17 18:18:36 <zhobbs> :)
Oct 17 18:18:57 <pjv> see, I'm not sure if open source stuff would have its place on the Market
Oct 17 18:19:10 <michaelnovakjr_> well then that is what i'll support
Oct 17 18:19:25 <pjv> also, I'm sure you or the community could filter apps, which will be much harder on the Market
Oct 17 18:19:32 <zhobbs> I actually had an offer from someone to build a HelloAnroid app store for me for free
Oct 17 18:19:34 <michaelnovakjr_> androidnerds.com will support open source apps
Oct 17 18:19:41 <michaelnovakjr_> hosting, etc.
Oct 17 18:20:14 <Disconnect> random side note, bestest package tracker ever (and not my effort) isnoop.net/tracking .. one of the earlier google maps mashups
Oct 17 18:20:16 <pjv> michaelnovakjr_: no hosting, just filtering, categorising, small reviews, updates, news
Oct 17 18:20:34 <pjv> I'm pretty sure there are already lots of platforms (google code, launchpad, ...)
Oct 17 18:21:17 <michaelnovakjr_> eh, not a bad idea
Oct 17 18:21:26 <pjv> zhobbs: also, face it, anddevs color scheme isn't exactly perfect ;-)
Oct 17 18:21:27 <michaelnovakjr_> sometimes googlecode sucks though
Oct 17 18:21:36 <michaelnovakjr_> its slwo
Oct 17 18:22:03 <pjv> slow, but standardized
Oct 17 18:22:10 <zhobbs> pjv: yeah, I think the presentation of tutorials is better on HA, but the community and quantity of tutorials at andev is awesome
Oct 17 18:22:20 <pjv> launchpad is usually slow only if a page has changed (i think they cache it somehow)
Oct 17 18:22:28 <pjv> zhobbs: exactly
Oct 17 18:23:27 <DarkriftX> pjv, android-dls.com
Oct 17 18:23:54 <pjv> one bigger site would also lend itself to community members taking up some level of responsibility/commitment (plusminus already asked for help in here too)
Oct 17 18:25:02 <pjv> I mean: I'd like to contribute something substantial, but only once not 10x
Oct 17 18:25:23 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm open to idea
Oct 17 18:25:24 <michaelnovakjr_> s
Oct 17 18:25:45 <michaelnovakjr_> i'd like to do something with androidnerds.com just haven't settled on something
Oct 17 18:31:28 <Disconnect> anyone know if google is ever gonna fix the disaster that is gmail contacts on the web?
Oct 17 18:31:47 <Disconnect> (not just the - now toggleable, yay - auto creation but the whole interface.. its so... web1.0)
Oct 17 19:10:49 <VickiWong> killswitch? fail
Oct 17 19:13:51 <Disconnect> killswitch to remove spyware and allow applications to be returned - win. killswitch to prevent voip - fail. but .. meh. could be worse. tmob phones are generally so locked down that -nothing- works (eg gmail app can't get to the net, etc etc) so....
Oct 17 19:16:00 <VickiWong> i dont want anyone touching my handset's contents, wether it be to remove spyware or not
Oct 17 19:16:32 <cbeust> Easy: turn off data :)
Oct 17 19:16:34 <umdk1d3> idk if they will be able to remove apps installed outside of market
Oct 17 19:16:57 <umdk1d3> ya know, i wonder if they even have it implemented yet
Oct 17 19:17:09 <umdk1d3> right now its just in the legal terms
Oct 17 19:18:41 <VickiWong> cbeust: im assuming that'd effect more then just killswitch
Oct 17 19:19:24 <Disconnect> VickiWong: so wait for the source and see if its possible to rebuild it without the switch. (or, more to the point, see if they did anything evil with the images to prevent you from flashing custom versions)
Oct 17 19:19:35 <plusminus_> New York, New York ... tam tam tatatam...
Oct 17 19:19:49 <Disconnect> but i'd bet the "return an app for free w/in 24 hours" option will go away as soon as you disable that switch..
Oct 17 19:20:18 <VickiWong> Disconnect: good point, once source is revealed things like this will be clearer
Oct 17 19:20:57 <Disconnect> anyone from google want to comment briefly/generally on how the 24 hour app returns work?
Oct 17 19:21:02 * Disconnect is curious
Oct 17 19:21:42 <umdk1d3> i dont think they would release market open sourced
Oct 17 19:22:07 <umdk1d3> same reason why they wouldnt release youtube or the streetview app
Oct 17 19:22:11 <Disconnect> no but once i have an apk installed, i can go to the market and say "um, i hate it, gimme my cash" .. how do they prevent me from just reinstalling it?
Oct 17 19:22:33 <umdk1d3> Disconnect: it would be tied with your google account probably
Oct 17 19:22:48 <umdk1d3> they prolly force you to associate a g-account to use market
Oct 17 19:22:54 <Disconnect> (there's lots of 'probably'/'maybe', thats why i'm wondering :) ..)
Oct 17 19:23:00 <umdk1d3> true lol
Oct 17 19:24:54 <MrKeuner> hi all, is it true that tracherous computing made its way into android ?
Oct 17 19:25:38 <Disconnect> whats a tracherous?
Oct 17 19:26:34 <umdk1d3> it would be interesting how they would handle this "automatic uninstall"
Oct 17 19:26:35 <MrKeuner> can google or somebody else remove any programs on my device without asking me
Oct 17 19:26:57 <umdk1d3> if its package-name-based, why couldnt i name my app something already taken by a legitimate app?
Oct 17 19:27:19 <cbeust> We put code in Android that will steal your morning cereal and siphon off the gas in your tank while you sleep
Oct 17 19:27:26 <VickiWong> MrKeuner: talking about the killswitch? if so then seems so
Oct 17 19:27:29 <umdk1d3> malicious app is called com.google.photostream or something
Oct 17 19:27:31 <VickiWong> cbeust: I knew it!
Oct 17 19:27:50 <JoeBrain> They're always after me Lucky Charms...
Oct 17 19:27:53 <cbeust> VickiWong: black ops have been dispatched to your location
Oct 17 19:28:09 <VickiWong> cbeust: u no can haz my crunchy nut ><
Oct 17 19:28:10 <cbeust> expect helicopters and ninjas coming down your balcony any minute
Oct 17 19:28:12 <MrKeuner> VickiWong: that is really sad, I was one of your users otherwise
Oct 17 19:28:26 <VickiWong> MrKeuner: one of my users?
Oct 17 19:28:32 <JoeBrain> lol
Oct 17 19:28:43 <cbeust> MrKeuner: yes, VickiWong is the enemy, well done
Oct 17 19:28:44 <VickiWong> MrKeuner: only my bf gets to use me ><
Oct 17 19:29:07 <VickiWong> you can keep your sticky hands to yerself
Oct 17 19:29:24 <VickiWong> cbeust: enemy? : (
Oct 17 19:29:35 <Disconnect> ...my hands are clean, what about me?
Oct 17 19:29:46 <umdk1d3> ". in such an instance, Google retains the right to remotely remove those applications from your device at its sole discretion"
Oct 17 19:29:48 <muthu> when the market opens?
Oct 17 19:29:48 <VickiWong> Disconnect: touche
Oct 17 19:29:57 <umdk1d3> the key phase being "retains the right"
Oct 17 19:29:57 <Disconnect> :)
Oct 17 19:30:01 <Disconnect> s/e//
Oct 17 19:30:08 <umdk1d3> at this stage, i doubt theyve actually implemented it yet
Oct 17 19:30:14 <Disconnect> (or is that s/t/d/ instead :) ..)
Oct 17 19:30:55 <MrKeuner> android license must be a non-free licence then
Oct 17 19:31:18 <umdk1d3> huh MrKeuner?
Oct 17 19:31:26 <Disconnect> ..android license is apache. marketplace license is whatever they choose.
Oct 17 19:31:45 <Disconnect> i think you are totally unclear on what you are talking about.
Oct 17 19:32:07 <MrKeuner> marketplace is the application that installs remove software on android?
Oct 17 19:32:10 <Disconnect> (i know, shocking coming from me, eh? but there's a difference between unclear and unable to articulate. i usually fall in the latter :) ..)
Oct 17 19:32:11 <muthu> ha, the king of good times
Oct 17 19:32:23 <Disconnect> MrKeuner: yep.
Oct 17 19:32:36 <Disconnect> MrKeuner: it exists to remove software and molest your relatives.
Oct 17 19:32:39 <MrKeuner> is it possible not to use marketplace?
Oct 17 19:32:50 <cbeust> And steal cereal, don't forget that part
Oct 17 19:32:52 <umdk1d3> i think that most stuff on the emulator (minus maps) will be opensourced
Oct 17 19:32:54 <muthu> there'll be many markets
Oct 17 19:32:57 <Disconnect> oh yah, steal cereal
Oct 17 19:33:14 <VickiWong> why everyone wanting my crunchy nut
Oct 17 19:33:14 <umdk1d3> MrKeuner: sure, you can install stuff from anywhere
Oct 17 19:33:45 <MrKeuner> if application is not installed using marketplace, can't google remove the application at their discretion?
Oct 17 19:33:48 <VickiWong> cbeust: your ninja army was foiled by my pirate guards, cereal is mine
Oct 17 19:34:13 <umdk1d3> MrKeuner: right, if i install something outside of marketplace, that clause doesnt(shouldnt) apply
Oct 17 19:34:34 <MrKeuner> at least that's good to hear
Oct 17 19:34:49 <muthu> but i think its an overreach
Oct 17 19:34:53 <Disconnect> hey random oop question. say i've got an object that can either stand alone (Box) or be bundled with other like types (say, Pallet contains ArrayList<Box>) .. whats the best OOP way to represent that? esp given that I need a master list of Boxes anyway (CerealCompany contains AL<Box> AllOurBoxesEver and AL<Pallet> Pallets)
Oct 17 19:35:45 <umdk1d3> how often would you need to look over AllOurBoxesEver?
Oct 17 19:35:48 <Disconnect> and i think google will apply that clause anyway. tmob (and other carriers) will insist on it. voip apps, for example, are verboten. i think the killswitch will have to go beyond marketplace for that to mean anything..
Oct 17 19:36:06 <Disconnect> its the primary interface. sometimes you'll look at all pallets instead, and drill down, but most of the time its box-oriented
Oct 17 19:36:09 <muthu> killswitch must be killed
Oct 17 19:36:38 <Disconnect> and when a new Box is created, sometimes its part of a pallet, sometimes not, and sometimes you go back later to make or break that association
Oct 17 19:36:44 <MrKeuner> I am not using android
Oct 17 19:36:53 <umdk1d3> if its all pointer based, then it shouldnt be an issue to keep both AL's
Oct 17 19:36:58 <Disconnect> MrKeuner: try #maemo, nice open mobile platform with no killswitch
Oct 17 19:37:08 <jasta> i think the kill switch is in somewhat poor taste, however if the kill switch has no ability to reach into the phone nad uninstall non-market apps, i don't really care
Oct 17 19:37:15 <Disconnect> umdk1d3: yah. it just feels all tangled up tho
Oct 17 19:37:26 <jasta> the point is that there should be SOME friendly way for users to install apps that can't be remotely killed.
Oct 17 19:37:41 <umdk1d3> Disconnect: well, the other way would be for class Box { Pallet parent; }
Oct 17 19:37:49 <umdk1d3> if you dont need to use it that often
Oct 17 19:38:08 <muthu> the user makes the decision to kill or not
Oct 17 19:38:14 <Disconnect> hmmmm. actually, that might make more sense. esp since a Box only gets 1 Pallet. (and it translates to sqlite better too)
Oct 17 19:38:18 <muthu> market mustn't dictate that
Oct 17 19:38:43 <Disconnect> the Pallet.add(Box) { box.setParent(this) } feels weird to me but its not as tangled up.
Oct 17 19:39:07 <covalentbond> Anyone know if there's any sort of unique device id available other than the IMEI?
Oct 17 19:39:16 <Disconnect> covalentbond: mac address
Oct 17 19:39:22 <Disconnect> covalentbond: either wifi or bt
Oct 17 19:39:49 <covalentbond> available via SDK?
Oct 17 19:40:42 <abc[g]> yes
Oct 17 19:41:47 <covalentbond> nice. any idea what the call is to get it?
Oct 17 19:41:52 <covalentbond> it doesn't appear in the java docs for android's flavor of java
Oct 17 19:42:30 <abc[g]> :)
Oct 17 19:43:23 <VickiWong> If anyone finds a way to fetch the user'ss google account information (specifically their registered location) give us a shout, still cant find a way mentioned anywhere
Oct 17 19:43:28 <Disconnect> umdk1d3: i guess an that model the company would then hold AL<Pallet> ourPallets and AL<Box> ourBoxes .. dunno, my embedded xp and OOP learnings are both screaming 'run away' :) but i think it'll work. and if not.. well.. thats what refactoring is for. and/or v2.0 :)
Oct 17 19:44:21 <umdk1d3> Disconnect: that pattern might get rid of the need for a Pallet to have an AL<Box>
Oct 17 19:44:42 <umdk1d3> its a tradeoff, depending on how you need to reference stuff
Oct 17 19:45:13 <Disconnect> yah. i need to be able to get a list of pallets in a company, or a list of boxes in a company. (if i need a list of all boxes everywhere .. well.. thats too bad, at least for right now :) ..)
Oct 17 19:45:50 <Disconnect> i'm gonna need a better way to instantiate all this anyway, the more i think about it the more i see OOM errors in my future.
Oct 17 19:46:50 <Disconnect> Box is small, and Pallet is just a name and a list of Boxes, but .. hmm. if i was procedural i'd just take a list of Pallets when i needed it (with no associated boxes) and a list of the last 'n' boxes for the master display and not worry about the rest..
Oct 17 19:47:29 <Disconnect> but doing it that way is not even a little OOP..
Oct 17 19:48:07 <umdk1d3> mmm /me throws in an interface Forklift{} and knock Box'es all over the floor
Oct 17 19:48:23 <Disconnect> lol
Oct 17 19:48:31 <Disconnect> isn't that an exception?
Oct 17 19:48:42 <umdk1d3> BoxKnockedOverException  ;)
Oct 17 19:48:43 <Disconnect> if not we need a new Forklift.driver
Oct 17 19:49:43 <Disconnect> if pallets wait till later, its easy. company has boxes, boxes have names and values. done.
Oct 17 19:49:55 <Disconnect> sounds like i just established a roadmap for 2.0 :)
Oct 17 19:54:17 <VickiWong> is MenuItem  add(int groupId, int itemId, int order, CharSequence title) the standard way of adding buttons to the phone menu?
Oct 17 19:55:07 <muthu1> you can load from xml
Oct 17 19:57:14 <VickiWong> muthu1: thats what i was aiming for :)
Oct 17 19:57:40 <muthu1> pretty easy, look at api demos
Oct 17 19:57:50 <VickiWong> muthu1: checking them out now :)
Oct 17 19:57:55 <muthu1> cool
Oct 17 20:00:50 <muthu> how's the viewgroup.layoutparams different from linearlayout.layoutparams?
Oct 17 20:02:03 <jasta> the latter extends ViewGroup.LayoutParams to add layout parameters specific to LinearLayout's.
Oct 17 20:02:24 <muthu1> its one of the annoying things
Oct 17 20:02:32 <jasta> btw, do you know how to open up documentation?  these past few days you've asked ridiculous questions well covered in android's docs.
Oct 17 20:02:42 <muthu1> yo
Oct 17 20:03:54 <Disconnect> jasta: who?
Oct 17 20:04:00 <jasta> muthu
Oct 17 20:04:23 <muthu> jasta
Oct 17 20:04:35 <Disconnect> just checking :)
Oct 17 20:04:46 <muthu> haha
Oct 17 20:05:41 <muthu> jasta: i've seen you asking the ridiculous of the ridiculous.. so what gives?
Oct 17 20:08:07 <jasta> no, you haven't.
Oct 17 20:08:30 <muthu1> hehe
Oct 17 20:08:57 <Dougie187> damn, there are two muthus? the world must be ending
Oct 17 20:09:15 <muthu1> what's up Dougie187
Oct 17 20:09:33 <Dougie187> doing homework.
Oct 17 20:09:34 <muthu1> how's your app coming along?
Oct 17 20:09:52 <muthu1> arggggh home work..
Oct 17 20:10:31 <Dougie187> app?
Oct 17 20:10:53 <Dougie187> I wish i had time for an app
Oct 17 20:10:57 <muthu> hmmm
Oct 17 20:11:05 <Dougie187> but first comes homework. then comes research, and after that possibly comes an app
Oct 17 20:11:19 <muthu> it can be parallel
Oct 17 20:11:55 <muthu> 1.5 mil phones sold
Oct 17 20:12:11 <zhobbs> muthu: we'll see about that
Oct 17 20:12:11 <Dougie187> thats a lie.
Oct 17 20:12:13 <jasta> isn't that just an estimate based on nothing?
Oct 17 20:12:28 <JoeAFK> funny maths
Oct 17 20:12:33 <muthu> Dougie187: not a lie, maths
Oct 17 20:12:36 <Dougie187> its a lie
Oct 17 20:12:44 <muthu> stats
Oct 17 20:12:49 <Dougie187> no.
Oct 17 20:12:50 <Dougie187> lie
Oct 17 20:12:51 <jasta> god just shut up muthu
Oct 17 20:12:55 <JoeAFK> lol
Oct 17 20:12:56 <muthu> probabality
Oct 17 20:13:07 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobiles-g1-presales-arent-even-close-to-1-5m/
Oct 17 20:13:29 <Dougie187> a.k.a. lie
Oct 17 20:13:38 <muthu> http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.readwriteweb.com%2Farchives%2F15_million_g1_mobile_phones_pre-sold.php&ei=6vH4SOzqH4686gOEp4GHDw&usg=AFQjCNGc7qnzMM5-hZlgD6-Vfk1WMxtUWQ&sig2=EN5xoQmlaYt093A2RGu1ZQ
Oct 17 20:13:52 <Dougie187> mine is more recent.
Oct 17 20:13:59 <Dougie187> biotch
Oct 17 20:14:05 <JoeAFK> Lol muthu that cites Engadget as its source..
Oct 17 20:14:19 <JoeAFK> atleast for pre-order #s
Oct 17 20:14:19 <muthu> lol
Oct 17 20:14:44 <JoeAFK> Believe everything you read... especially in IRC :P
Oct 17 20:14:47 <muthu> android has mostly got good reviews
Oct 17 20:14:56 <jasta> and so he changes the subject hehe
Oct 17 20:15:09 <jasta> to something also not true.  android has mostly gotten mediocre reviews.
Oct 17 20:15:10 <muthu1> jasta: don't you wish its 15 mil?
Oct 17 20:15:29 <jasta> do i wish completely absurd things were reality?  no.
Oct 17 20:15:33 <Dougie187> jasta: yeah. most reviews say "its decent, but has a long way to come"
Oct 17 20:15:35 <muthu1> imagine.. how many people will use 5?
Oct 17 20:15:41 <JoeAFK> I wish I were hooked up w/ a supermodel...
Oct 17 20:15:56 <Dougie187> there ya go JoeAFK, thinking like muthu
Oct 17 20:16:01 <Dougie187> except he believes he is.
Oct 17 20:16:05 <JoeAFK> :)
Oct 17 20:16:08 <jasta> no, thinking like muthu would be saying that he WILL hook up with a supermodel :)
Oct 17 20:16:08 <fadden> http://i-want-a-pony.com/
Oct 17 20:16:13 <muthu1> haha
Oct 17 20:16:20 <jasta> or has already :)
Oct 17 20:16:27 <muthu1> its not that difficult ;)
Oct 17 20:16:44 <JoeAFK> I think the G1 reviews will be mostly irrelevant anyways; not like there wont be another Android phone out soon enough
Oct 17 20:16:46 <jasta> an american supermodel, how about that? :)
Oct 17 20:16:49 <unix_lappy> icanhazpony.com
Oct 17 20:16:52 <muthu1> he
Oct 17 20:17:15 <muthu1> supermodels are from europe
Oct 17 20:17:21 <muthu1> what's an american supermodel?
Oct 17 20:17:23 <jasta> i wonder how long i'd actually go to jail if i punch muthu in the face next time i see him
Oct 17 20:17:28 <Dougie187> JoeAFK: The relevant information from the G1 reviews is the direct information regarding Android, not the hardware
Oct 17 20:17:33 * jasta contacts legal council
Oct 17 20:17:37 <muthu1> lol
Oct 17 20:17:38 <Dougie187> jasta: probably like 1 day.
Oct 17 20:17:39 <JoeAFK> Righto
Oct 17 20:18:07 <muthu1> jasta: are you coming for next IO? :)
Oct 17 20:18:17 <JoeAFK> Was there a first time you saw him jasta? And you didnt punch him then? :)
Oct 17 20:18:18 <Dougie187> JoeAFK: thats where people need to focus to make android better. so it can some day be a competition to the iPhone and winmo.
Oct 17 20:18:43 <Dougie187> i think most people would take the opportunity now.
Oct 17 20:18:47 <JoeAFK> Right but I get the feeling everyone wants to compare something to the iPhone; so they'll focus on it as a whole
Oct 17 20:19:04 <muthu1> ok, lets be honest
Oct 17 20:19:13 <Dougie187> true, but if the software blows the iPhones software out of the water, the hardware won't matter as much.
Oct 17 20:19:15 <muthu1> why you folks are so pessimist about android?
Oct 17 20:19:30 <JoeAFK> Not pessimistic, just not a fanboy
Oct 17 20:19:38 <Dougie187> muthu1: you just think we are pessimistic because we are realistic and you are retardedly optimistic.
Oct 17 20:19:41 <JoeAFK> lol
Oct 17 20:19:43 <muthu1> its got good reviews, reasonable preorders etc.,
Oct 17 20:19:55 <JoeAFK> It does; but when you spout 1.5M...
Oct 17 20:20:02 <muthu1> not me
Oct 17 20:20:09 <muthu1> the blogosphere says 1.5m
Oct 17 20:20:09 <Dougie187> muthu1 it has got *DECENT* reviews. and reasonable preorders.
Oct 17 20:20:26 <Dougie187> omg, the internet is always right isn't it muthu1?
Oct 17 20:20:37 <muthu> Dougie187: its not one source
Oct 17 20:20:39 <muthu> its many
Oct 17 20:20:47 <Dougie187> what would you do if I wrote a blog that said android sucks and the g1 is garbage, and tmobile has -1.8trillion preorders?
Oct 17 20:20:49 <JoeAFK> "muthu: 1.5 mil phones sold"
Oct 17 20:20:59 <Dougie187> muthu: all of those sources get their info from the same place.
Oct 17 20:21:12 <Dougie187> you can't read 20 articles that site the same source and say they are all different articles.
Oct 17 20:21:35 <muthu1> all i'm saying is..
Oct 17 20:21:40 <muthu1> ANDROID ROCKS
Oct 17 20:21:49 <JoeAFK> then you shoulda just said that instead
Oct 17 20:22:03 <Dougie187> all im saying is Android could rock.
Oct 17 20:22:17 <muthu1> 1.5m preorders is big deal
Oct 17 20:22:23 <muthu1> that's why the blogs reported
Oct 17 20:22:23 <Dougie187> there he goes again.
Oct 17 20:22:25 <Dougie187> you don't even get it.
Oct 17 20:22:30 <muthu1> and you folks don't want to believe it
Oct 17 20:22:31 <Dougie187> you arn't reading anything im writing.
Oct 17 20:22:47 <Dougie187> so i will just stop. your brain is too thick for the internet.
Oct 17 20:22:53 <muthu1> lol
Oct 17 20:23:02 <muthu1> i'm open
Oct 17 20:23:07 <muthu1> you folks are closed
Oct 17 20:23:09 <Dougie187> no you're not.
Oct 17 20:23:10 <Disconnect> muthu1: the blogs made it up. someone heard that tmob ordered 500,000 units. then sold out and tripled their order. HOWEVER...
Oct 17 20:23:12 <Dougie187> you won't listen.
Oct 17 20:23:20 <JoeAFK> Gullible != Open
Oct 17 20:23:23 <muthu1> right, so there's this news
Oct 17 20:23:27 <muthu1> which is all over the place
Oct 17 20:23:36 <muthu1> and no one knows what's true
Oct 17 20:23:42 <Dougie187> muthu1: all of that news came from the same f'ing place.
Oct 17 20:23:45 <Disconnect> muthu1: chances are the 500,000 units were preorder, sale and probably even the whole quarter. (the actual preorder might have been 100,000, later upped to 3x whatever it was)
Oct 17 20:23:52 <JoeAFK> So you act like a bird & follow the rest instead of thinking for yourself
Oct 17 20:24:12 <muthu1> the only problem is..
Oct 17 20:24:17 <JoeAFK> Motley Fool is clearly no longer a reputable source
Oct 17 20:24:19 <muthu1> there's something called world.. outside US
Oct 17 20:24:27 <muthu1> and you are thinking about those numbers
Oct 17 20:24:28 <Dougie187> omg...
Oct 17 20:24:41 <Disconnect> here's the only actual source - http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/10/12/1-5-million-t-mobile-g1s-already-pre-ordered/ .. everyone else is quoting him. and he has no actual info.
Oct 17 20:24:42 <muthu1> the 1.5m number is allover the world
Oct 17 20:24:51 <Disconnect> ...no, its not.
Oct 17 20:25:00 <Dougie187> Disconnect: AND! After that they reverted that post.
Oct 17 20:25:06 <Dougie187> Can anyone outside of the US even preorder yet?
Oct 17 20:25:15 <muthu1> yeah, in UK
Oct 17 20:25:19 <JoeAFK> muthu, now everyone's saying that 1.5M is wrong, so why wont you believe all the sources again?
Oct 17 20:25:20 <Dougie187> not reverted...  retracted.
Oct 17 20:25:31 <tomgibara> muthu1: no you can't preorder in the UK yet
Oct 17 20:25:40 <muthu1> haha
Oct 17 20:25:47 <Dougie187> looks like muthu1 doesn't know what hes talking about.
Oct 17 20:25:59 <muthu1> tomgibara: did you read the forums?
Oct 17 20:26:05 <JoeAFK> Actually the source is here: http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2008/10/09/google-were-fresh-out-of-androids.aspx
Oct 17 20:26:11 <tomgibara> muthu1: which ones?
Oct 17 20:26:23 <JoeAFK> The Eng. post just didnt seem to cite the source
Oct 17 20:26:28 <muthu1> where Al talked about the preorders
Oct 17 20:26:35 <muthu1> the google forums
Oct 17 20:26:46 <Disconnect> here it is. http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-pre-order-numbers-way-too-astronomical/
Oct 17 20:26:56 <tomgibara> I may have done, but I would instantly choose to ignore and forget it
Oct 17 20:27:03 <Disconnect> JoeAFK: yah i hit the wrong link :)
Oct 17 20:27:08 <tomgibara> As I've said before, I ignore most of that stuff
Oct 17 20:27:10 <JoeAFK> :)
Oct 17 20:27:15 <Disconnect> the last link is where the #s came from (boygenius)
Oct 17 20:27:24 <Disconnect> rather, explains where they came from
Oct 17 20:27:32 <muthu1> boygenius - is he from engadget?
Oct 17 20:27:38 <JoeAFK> Every reputable blog is now making excuses for the lousy fool.com article
Oct 17 20:28:07 <Dougie187> muthu1 doesn't get it...
Oct 17 20:28:12 <Dougie187> its not worth anyones time...
Oct 17 20:28:16 <muthu1> Dougie187: its not about getting it
Oct 17 20:28:17 <Disconnect> yah it took apple 20 countries and a -huge- media push to get 1mil in a weekend. tmob has neither of those things.
Oct 17 20:28:52 <JoeAFK> lol clearly 'understanding' is not your primary concern muthu
Oct 17 20:29:02 <muthu1> gphone will sell more than iphone
Oct 17 20:29:19 <JoeAFK> Androids in total maybe, but probably not the G1
Oct 17 20:29:21 <Dougie187> muthu1 you had no idea about that.
Oct 17 20:29:28 <muthu1> no one has any ideas
Oct 17 20:29:33 <Dougie187> you are just making up crap now.
Oct 17 20:29:36 <tomgibara> muthu1: And what exactly is a gphone?
Oct 17 20:29:40 <Dougie187> don't say thing you can't back up.
Oct 17 20:29:50 <Dougie187> things*
Oct 17 20:29:56 <muthu1> whatever i've said so far has been proven true
Oct 17 20:30:09 <Dougie187> nothing you have said so far has been proven true.
Oct 17 20:30:13 <Dougie187> actually..
Oct 17 20:30:15 <umdk1d3> lol
Oct 17 20:30:19 <JoeAFK> lol
Oct 17 20:30:20 <Dougie187> most things you have said so far have been proven false.
Oct 17 20:30:27 <muthu1> negative
Oct 17 20:30:37 <Dougie187> what is one thing that you have said that has been proven true?
Oct 17 20:30:48 <JoeAFK> circular argument, he just lives in a different reality
Oct 17 20:30:59 <muthu1> i said android will get positive reviews inspite of phone
Oct 17 20:31:20 <muthu1> i've said android is the next vb for mobile phones
Oct 17 20:31:25 <tomgibara> muthu1: I think you'd be best to drop this, it's not worth the abuse
Oct 17 20:31:33 <muthu1> haha
Oct 17 20:31:38 <muthu1> abuse is a motivator!
Oct 17 20:31:41 <Dougie187> muthu1: where is a positive review?
Oct 17 20:31:52 <tomgibara> Okay, prepare for a lot of motivation
Oct 17 20:31:56 <muthu1> lol
Oct 17 20:32:09 <muthu1> Dougie187: where were you hiding?
Oct 17 20:32:24 <muthu1> haven't you read no positive reviews so far?
Oct 17 20:32:34 <Dougie187> muthu1: i have read quite a few of the reviews. were you on shrooms when you read these? or on acid or sometihng?
Oct 17 20:33:48 <Dougie187> Have you noticed how there isn't even one person in here backing you up?
Oct 17 20:33:57 <Dougie187> doesn't that make you think you might be wrong?
Oct 17 20:34:13 <JoeAFK> thinking is not his forte
Oct 17 20:34:19 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 17 20:34:20 <Dougie187> true.
Oct 17 20:34:27 <muthu1> back..
Oct 17 20:34:37 <VickiWong> wow claws really are coming out today
Oct 17 20:34:50 <JoeAFK> ugh IRC makes it too easy to procrastinate
Oct 17 20:35:03 <muthu1> everyone is in agreement..
Oct 17 20:35:04 <JoeAFK> If I wasn't @ work, I'dve probably have just muted this whole convo :)
Oct 17 20:35:11 <VickiWong> and this used to be such a civilised place
Oct 17 20:35:27 <muthu1> VickiWong: welcome to android ;)
Oct 17 20:35:37 <JoeAFK> I didnt think anywhere on IRC was civilized
Oct 17 20:36:01 <muthu1> if its civilized, we won't be here.. lol
Oct 17 20:36:02 <Dougie187> well im out now. time to pick up my wife. muthu1 i expect to have a 100% positive review of android from someone other than you from a reputable site when i can back up.
Oct 17 20:36:04 <VickiWong> JoeAFK: i have my own private channel, very civilized in there :)
Oct 17 20:36:08 <JoeAFK> lol
Oct 17 20:36:13 <muthu1> Dougie187: hang on
Oct 17 20:36:16 <muthu1> let me cite the source
Oct 17 20:36:26 <Dougie187> give it to me later.
Oct 17 20:36:28 <Dougie187> i can't read it now.
Oct 17 20:36:36 <VickiWong> Dougie187: 100% in order to be considered a positive review? so your saying they are all 100% negative?
Oct 17 20:37:18 <muthu> he doesn't understand there's no 100%
Oct 17 20:37:29 * VickiWong realizes she is talking to a plastic plant and tht Dougie has already left...
Oct 17 20:37:38 <muthu> hehe
Oct 17 20:37:59 <muthu> wow, time flies here
Oct 17 20:38:01 <VickiWong> muthu: I know, i love that argument 'if there is no 100% positive review then there are NO positive reviews' :D
Oct 17 20:38:13 <muthu> lol
Oct 17 20:38:44 <JoeAFK> actually I'm sure you can find a 100% positive review on some idiots blog
Oct 17 20:38:47 <muthu1> android is the next best thing, since sliced bread
Oct 17 20:39:00 <VickiWong> sliced bread wasnt so great
Oct 17 20:39:04 <languish> sliced bread isn't such a great thing
Oct 17 20:39:13 <VickiWong> languish: beat ya to the punch :D
Oct 17 20:39:14 <languish> it causes bread to mold faster
Oct 17 20:39:18 <languish> :)
Oct 17 20:39:23 <muthu1> android is the next best thing, since big mac
Oct 17 20:39:26 <VickiWong> great minds..
Oct 17 20:39:30 <languish> heh
Oct 17 20:39:35 <umdk1d3> android makes people fat?  o.o
Oct 17 20:39:39 <muthu1> lol
Oct 17 20:39:49 <JoeAFK> bacon and android sandwich
Oct 17 20:40:03 <languish> muthu, android is the next best thing to google spam filtering
Oct 17 20:40:11 <languish> :)
Oct 17 20:40:16 <muthu1> :)
Oct 17 20:40:26 <muthu1> allright people, go back to work ;)
Oct 17 20:40:45 <VickiWong> Is inflating XML the only way to define menu buttons using XML?
Oct 17 20:41:03 <muthu1> yes
Oct 17 20:41:34 <VickiWong> muthu1: dangnabbit that was a waisted search :D
Oct 17 20:42:13 <muthu> VickiWong: where you from?
Oct 17 20:42:24 <VickiWong> muthu: Hong Kong
Oct 17 20:42:31 <muthu> great
Oct 17 20:42:48 <VickiWong> muthu: why? and how about yourself, UK?
Oct 17 20:43:00 <muthu> India
Oct 17 20:43:15 <VickiWong> wow i missed by quite a distance :D
Oct 17 20:43:22 <muthu> haha
Oct 17 20:43:28 <muthu> visit US for business
Oct 17 20:43:43 <muthu> am planning to come china, hongkong
Oct 17 20:43:46 <VickiWong> I study in UK
Oct 17 20:43:51 <muthu> cool
Oct 17 20:43:52 <VickiWong> 'when' im studying
Oct 17 20:44:00 <muthu> what you do now?
Oct 17 20:44:03 <VickiWong> cool when you coming to HK?
Oct 17 20:44:15 <muthu> sometime next year
Oct 17 20:44:18 <VickiWong> Im on a BSc degree course at moment
Oct 17 20:44:29 <muthu> what brought you to android?
Oct 17 20:44:35 <VickiWong> currently looking for a job for my work placement year
Oct 17 20:45:03 <VickiWong> been doing mobile development for past 2 years, in Java. Big fan of Google and love the ideals behind Android :)
Oct 17 20:45:03 <muthu> heard hongkong is wonderful
Oct 17 20:45:12 <muthu> nice
Oct 17 20:45:21 <VickiWong> how about yourself?
Oct 17 20:45:41 <muthu> http://linkedin.com/in/tellibitz
Oct 17 20:45:46 <muthu> http://mobeegal.in
Oct 17 20:46:05 <muthu> that's my story
Oct 17 20:47:01 <VickiWong> cool
Oct 17 20:49:37 <languish> hmm
Oct 17 20:49:48 <languish> Does this channel have a website?
Oct 17 20:49:59 <stadlero> code.google.com/android  :)
Oct 17 20:50:00 <muthu> android.com
Oct 17 20:50:04 <VickiWong> :D
Oct 17 20:50:22 <f00f-> muthu when is your content up for mbgl
Oct 17 20:50:48 <languish> I think it might be a good idea to have a site dedicated to this channe, to list links we discuss, and reference projects of the regulars..etc
Oct 17 20:50:55 <languish> +l
Oct 17 20:51:03 <f00f-> languish agree. lots of newb questions, so we need a faq.
Oct 17 20:51:03 <jasta> languish: i agree, a wiki would be good for that
Oct 17 20:51:18 <languish> Well I'm not doing it.
Oct 17 20:51:26 <languish> But I think it's a god idea :)
Oct 17 20:51:29 <languish> *good
Oct 17 20:51:51 <muthu> f00f-: oyyo
Oct 17 20:51:58 <muthu> what's up f00f- y!
Oct 17 20:52:04 <languish> mostly because I don't have the time to dedicate to it, or the skills to make it sufficiently presentable
Oct 17 20:52:18 <f00f-> muthu: not much. i've already got a feature request for pednav ;)
Oct 17 20:52:27 <muthu> nice
Oct 17 20:52:30 <f00f-> muthu: some guy mailed us, heard about it in some top 15 article
Oct 17 20:52:31 <muthu> pednav rocks
Oct 17 20:52:38 <languish> cool
Oct 17 20:52:40 <muthu> wonderful
Oct 17 20:52:52 <f00f-> now if i can just finish coding it then we can actually rock something ;)
Oct 17 20:52:59 <f00f-> hopefully i can get a phone before they run out
Oct 17 20:53:02 <muthu> just do it
Oct 17 20:53:07 <jasta> f00f-: you trying to get one on day 1?
Oct 17 20:53:26 <f00f-> jasta: i'm trying to work the business angle, failing that, go into the store
Oct 17 20:53:39 <jasta> the business angle?  bribing t-mobile reps? :)
Oct 17 20:53:48 <jasta> i already thought of that, didn't work hehe
Oct 17 20:53:52 <f00f-> no, just trying to set up biz service
Oct 17 20:53:57 <languish> f00f-, just connect with a store manager
Oct 17 20:54:12 <muthu> not sure, why f00f- did not get a G1
Oct 17 20:54:22 <jasta> i'm gonna head into the t-mobile store i plan to go to on Wed and talk to the manager actually.  make sure they are expecting a big shipment
Oct 17 20:54:37 <jasta> f00f-: that probably will get you one later, actually
Oct 17 20:54:42 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta, i can send my cousin vinny for you
Oct 17 20:54:47 <jasta> f00f-: they don't prioritize business customers like that...
Oct 17 20:54:49 <michaelnovakjr_> he's good with people
Oct 17 20:55:04 <jasta> yeah? :)
Oct 17 20:55:08 <f00f-> okay, i'll call the guy and see what he says
Oct 17 20:55:10 <jasta> hehe, i have a friend that is actually like that.
Oct 17 20:55:14 <michaelnovakjr_> vinny from brooklyn
Oct 17 20:55:22 <jasta> crazy Russian named Dmitri
Oct 17 20:55:28 <michaelnovakjr_> they are good too
Oct 17 20:55:46 <jasta> oh, and my friend Scott is a large black man with 2 black belts ;)
Oct 17 20:55:53 <michaelnovakjr_> haH
Oct 17 20:55:53 <jasta> he sure is scary
Oct 17 20:56:02 <languish> jasta, that explains your gaping.. n/m
Oct 17 20:56:11 <f00f-> hahaha
Oct 17 20:56:24 <jasta> lol, we're going as The A-Team for halloween.  he will make an excellent B.A. Baracus
Oct 17 20:58:02 <languish> heh
Oct 17 20:59:38 <jasta> i gotta find some way to temporarily die my hair gray/white.  i'm gonna be hannibal
Oct 17 20:59:56 <jasta> get a cigar and stuff
Oct 17 21:00:11 <VickiWong> anyone know of an example of inflating xml for creating a menu that doesnt use apis.R?
Oct 17 21:00:17 <jasta> man i love halloween as an adult.  drink like crazy around a bunch of half dressed girls
Oct 17 21:00:34 <jasta> VickiWong: what exactly are you trying to do?
Oct 17 21:00:35 <VickiWong> jasta: -_-
Oct 17 21:00:57 <VickiWong> jasta: trying to add menu buttons via xml
Oct 17 21:01:02 <jasta> ok, so do it ;)
Oct 17 21:01:22 <jasta> have you looked at ApiDemos?  it does a lot of this.
Oct 17 21:01:38 <VickiWong> yeah I looked up their example
Oct 17 21:01:43 <VickiWong> it uses apis.R
Oct 17 21:01:49 <stadlero> ApiDemos/.../app/MenuInflateFromXml.java
Oct 17 21:02:01 <VickiWong> stadlero: thats the one im looking at :)
Oct 17 21:02:19 <jasta> VickiWong: uhm, apis.R is just their _LOCAL_ packages R.java
Oct 17 21:02:22 <VickiWong> uses R.menu.blah
Oct 17 21:02:23 <jasta> you have one too, generated for you.
Oct 17 21:02:44 <jasta> you would make a menu/foo.xml file, then R.java would get generated to include R.menu.foo
Oct 17 21:02:51 <jasta> thta's how all resources work
Oct 17 21:03:13 <VickiWong> jasta: as I figured, but it's giving me issues, although im using res/layout/menu.xml
Oct 17 21:03:19 <jasta> well, don't do that.
Oct 17 21:03:25 <dmoffett> RelativeLayout cellLayout = (RelativeLayout) inflater.inflate(R.layout.recording_cell, null);
Oct 17 21:03:36 <dmoffett> Is that what you are looking for?
Oct 17 21:04:35 <jasta> dmoffett: i think he's just struggling with the basic notion of how to interact with resources...
Oct 17 21:04:46 <dmoffett> I see.
Oct 17 21:05:36 <VickiWong> jasta: i put the xml file in the wrong folder *facepalm*
Oct 17 21:06:08 <jasta> facepalm?
Oct 17 21:06:14 <jasta> sounds like a drink
Oct 17 21:06:33 <VickiWong> jasta: http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/facepalm.jpg
Oct 17 21:07:06 <jasta> i'm so excited for this weekend
Oct 17 21:07:11 <jasta> 100% android coding :)
Oct 17 21:07:14 <VickiWong> jasta: oh and it's 'she' :)
Oct 17 21:07:16 <jasta> no distractions
Oct 17 21:07:24 <jasta> VickiWong: don't be ridiculous ;)
Oct 17 21:07:47 <VickiWong> jasta: -_-
Oct 17 21:08:26 <zhobbs> jasta: I can't wait for this weekend, 0% android programming!!! haven't taken a whole weekend off in a while
Oct 17 21:08:41 <jasta> i took like 5 months off :)
Oct 17 21:09:08 <jasta> i'm gearing up for the opposite :)
Oct 17 21:09:38 <stadlero> By the way Vicki, the tool that compiles your resources doesn't actually care which directory they're in.  Putting the layouts in res/layout and the menus in res/menu is just a convention.  You could put everything in res/xml if you wanted.  The difference would just be in the naming in your R file
Oct 17 21:09:59 <stadlero> e.g. if your menu.xml file is in res/layout, you can probably find it in R.layout.foo
Oct 17 21:10:13 <jasta> well, that's not entirely true is it?
Oct 17 21:10:17 <stadlero> (Note, it's recommended to stick with the conventions, of course)
Oct 17 21:10:18 <VickiWong> stadlero: but when i had menu.cml in res/layout i got errors, when i moved it to res/menu error vanished
Oct 17 21:10:28 <jasta> for example, res/layout-land is magical
Oct 17 21:10:33 <VickiWong> stadlero: ahh with editing the R file :)
Oct 17 21:10:57 <jasta> VickiWong: don't edit R.java, it's autogenerated.
Oct 17 21:11:04 <VickiWong> jasta: im not :)
Oct 17 21:11:34 <stadlero> jasta: as a matter of fact you can also have menu-land and so forth
Oct 17 21:11:52 <jasta> stadlero: but xml/land? :)
Oct 17 21:12:16 <stadlero> xml-land, yep
Oct 17 21:12:21 <jasta> really?  that's pretty weird.
Oct 17 21:12:28 <jasta> i guess it's useful though
Oct 17 21:12:53 <jasta> i'm not a big fan of how that's organized though.  very large projects will have just a ton of files all in one folder
Oct 17 21:13:33 <stadlero> We
Oct 17 21:13:40 <zhobbs> subfolders would be nice
Oct 17 21:14:23 <zhobbs> actually, I would just be happy with a tool that would find/delete all my unused resources
Oct 17 21:14:49 <jasta> zhobbs: won't eclipse technically do taht?  wouldn't R.java build with warnings? :)
Oct 17 21:19:56 <languish> shit
Oct 17 21:20:07 <languish> looks like our g1's won't be delivered until after the weekend
Oct 17 21:20:23 <unix_lappy> languish: try and schedule a pickup.
Oct 17 21:20:30 <jeld> languish, of course, the release is set to 22nd :)
Oct 17 21:20:37 <languish> unix_lappy, yeah, I don't think it's even in my state yet
Oct 17 21:20:57 <languish> jeld, no.. quite  few have received theirs already
Oct 17 21:21:11 <languish> +a
Oct 17 21:21:42 <jeld> heh, interesting
Oct 17 21:21:52 <languish> I still don't get why some were shipped 3-day and others ground, when the option to upgrade shipping wasn't given during the order process
Oct 17 21:22:18 <jeld> languish, yup
Oct 17 21:22:20 <jeld> :(
Oct 17 21:23:01 <jeld> and on top of that there was no option to give them alternative shipping address, now I have to wait for UPS to attempt to deliver before I can reroute it
Oct 17 21:23:24 <languish> well that much I sort of understand
Oct 17 21:23:48 <languish> I'm glad they didn't go by the tmo billing addy alone.
Oct 17 21:24:04 <jeld> actually they did I think
Oct 17 21:24:15 <languish> coulda ended up addressed to my PObox, which USB doesn't deliver to
Oct 17 21:24:22 <languish> *UPS
Oct 17 21:24:25 <jeld> that is why they are shipping to my home
Oct 17 21:24:46 <languish> Ah, it did let me send it to my home
Oct 17 21:24:56 <languish> since it rejected the pobox
Oct 17 21:24:58 <languish> lol
Oct 17 21:25:02 <languish> i guess that was the trick
Oct 17 21:32:03 <VickiWong> oh the android menu is it possible to have a toggle button? or just standard buttons
Oct 17 21:32:17 <f00f-> how much is the unlimted data on t-mobile for the g1?
Oct 17 21:32:42 <VickiWong> the only way i have found so far is to alternate the button to represent current state (as in swapping 'turned on' button with 'turned off' button
Oct 17 21:33:35 <muthu_> VickiWong: is that a checkbox?
Oct 17 21:34:29 <romainguy___> VickiWong: yes you can have toggle buttons
Oct 17 21:34:59 <muthu_> romainguy: you can have toggle buttons in menu?
Oct 17 21:35:20 <Lenolium> f00f-: $25/mo with 400 txt messages, $35/mo with unlimited txt.
Oct 17 21:35:28 <romainguy> the phone app has toggle buttons in its menu
Oct 17 21:35:31 <romainguy> so, yes
Oct 17 21:35:33 <Lenolium> f00f-: But that's on top of whatever plan you have.
Oct 17 21:35:36 <muthu_> hmm
Oct 17 21:35:38 <f00f-> Lenolium: is it stated somewhere on their site?
Oct 17 21:35:53 <muthu_> can you load a toggle from xml
Oct 17 21:35:55 <muthu_> ?
Oct 17 21:36:21 <unix_infidel> Lenolium: still cheaper than at&t,  55/month base. (*cough* + tax)
Oct 17 21:36:35 <VickiWong> muthu: was hoping more for an 'on' 'off' type toggle
Oct 17 21:36:55 <muthu_> VickiWong: check box exists
Oct 17 21:36:55 <romainguy> unix_infidel: I switched our 2 phones from Verizon/AT&T and T-Mobile is definitely cheaper for
Oct 17 21:36:57 <romainguy> +us
Oct 17 21:37:03 <muthu_> but haven't seen any toggle button menu example
Oct 17 21:37:04 <romainguy> and we get more stuff out of the plan
Oct 17 21:37:13 <VickiWong> romainguy___: is there a sample of how to implement toggle buttons into the menu? i cant find one in the api demos
Oct 17 21:37:20 <wastrel> wait the $25/mo is on top of another plan?
Oct 17 21:37:23 <wastrel> i thought that was the plan
Oct 17 21:37:27 <unix_infidel> romainguy: they roll out the 3g yet?
Oct 17 21:38:02 <languish> f00f-, it was stated during the ordering process
Oct 17 21:38:09 <f00f-> i pay 55/mo with att, for 450 anytime, unlmited N&W, M-M, data. would cost 65/mo at t-mo from what i can see
Oct 17 21:38:10 <languish> nfi if it's info on the site yet
Oct 17 21:38:25 <unix_infidel> f00f-: w/ the iphone?
Oct 17 21:38:30 <f00f-> nope. with my N95 :D
Oct 17 21:38:34 <romainguy> unix_infidel: yes, it's be on for a few weeks in SF
Oct 17 21:38:51 <Lenolium> Yeah, $25/mo is on top of your voice plan.
Oct 17 21:38:55 <languish> technically, you can get the data for only $20/mo on tmo
Oct 17 21:39:03 <romainguy> languish: that's the one I have
Oct 17 21:39:03 <languish> plus your voice plan
Oct 17 21:39:09 <unix_infidel> f00f-: yea I think that's an apt point, the G1 doesnt compete with the iPhone.
Oct 17 21:39:18 <f00f-> languish: what's the name of the $20 data plan?
Oct 17 21:39:31 <languish> f00f-, it's just tmo's normal data plan
Oct 17 21:39:41 <Lenolium> I used to have the $6/month data plan on my e61, and that worked just fine (just had some serious port restrictions)
Oct 17 21:39:47 <f00f-> dont see it on their site
Oct 17 21:39:47 <languish> they combined text and data plans for the g1
Oct 17 21:40:12 <romainguy> f00f-: T-Mobile Total Internet or something like this
Oct 17 21:40:27 <romainguy> but it's for Sidekick and Blackberry
Oct 17 21:40:32 <f00f-> romainguy: that one is $40
Oct 17 21:40:34 <romainguy> they probably won't let you get it with a G1
Oct 17 21:40:36 <f00f-> ah
Oct 17 21:40:58 <languish> f00f- http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/addons/services/information.aspx?oscid=16110380-8E6A-42BF-B6DD-4806D8032CD0&PAsset=InternetEmail&tp=Svc_Tab_Smartphones&WT.mc_n=InternetandEmailTmophones_categorytile4WT.mc_t=OnsiteAd
Oct 17 21:41:24 <languish> T-Mobile Total Internet Add-on
Oct 17 21:41:24 <languish>  $19.99 per month
Oct 17 21:41:41 <f00f-> nice, i will try to work that
Oct 17 21:41:45 <f00f-> on top of voice plan
Oct 17 21:41:51 <wastrel> so what's the voice plan?
Oct 17 21:41:51 <unix_infidel> anyone now of a way to auto minimize panes in eclipse?
Oct 17 21:42:06 <wastrel> meh
Oct 17 21:42:15 <languish> I have the $39.99 1000 minutes + nights & weekends
Oct 17 21:42:24 <languish> so my data will be on top of that
Oct 17 21:42:47 <languish> one thing that annoys me about the g1, is how they cow-towed to the carriers and didn't make all messaging data.
Oct 17 21:42:49 <languish> fuckers
Oct 17 21:43:25 <languish> there's absolutely no reason beyond sheer greed to charge more for sms/txt
Oct 17 21:43:44 <umdk1d3> there kinda is
Oct 17 21:43:51 <umdk1d3> sms isnt internet
Oct 17 21:44:10 <umdk1d3> sms is in the signaling band of GSM, not IP based
Oct 17 21:44:26 <romainguy_> which means it works pretty much everywhere you can get a tiny bit of signal
Oct 17 21:44:31 <wastrel> so $60/mo total for voice & data eh
Oct 17 21:44:33 <jasta> yeah actually if anything SMS should be more expensive than it is; it's totally abused.
Oct 17 21:44:43 <jasta> SMS should be replaced by an IP switched network.
Oct 17 21:44:44 <VickiWong> romainguy: Is there anything in the api demo that uses a toggle in a menu? or is it just in the dialer on the G1
Oct 17 21:44:52 <languish> more expensive than $0.20/message?
Oct 17 21:44:52 <jasta> or at least, should be made transparent to operate over either
Oct 17 21:44:54 <f00f-> it will be
Oct 17 21:44:54 <romainguy_> VickiWong: I hav eno idea
Oct 17 21:44:56 <unix_infidel> heh, as opposed to totally cheating with "fastview"
Oct 17 21:45:11 <VickiWong> romainguy: thanks anyway :) at least now i know it is possible somehow
Oct 17 21:45:20 <languish> sms rates are sheer rape
Oct 17 21:45:22 <wastrel> my cable internet & phone is less than that
Oct 17 21:45:34 <umdk1d3> VickiWong:  MenuItem.setCheckable(boolean checkable) maybe?
Oct 17 21:45:45 <muthu_> that gives a checkbox
Oct 17 21:45:48 <muthu_> not a toggle
Oct 17 21:45:58 <languish> <wastrel> so $60/mo total for voice & data eh
Oct 17 21:46:00 <languish> yeah x2
Oct 17 21:46:03 <languish> one for my wife
Oct 17 21:46:04 <VickiWong> what muthu said ^
Oct 17 21:46:06 <languish> plus the taxes
Oct 17 21:46:10 <romainguy_> muthu: it probably shows a toggle in the main menu
Oct 17 21:46:19 <muthu_> oooh
Oct 17 21:46:19 <romainguy_> languish: no, because you can use the family plans
Oct 17 21:46:20 <umdk1d3> oh hmm  :/
Oct 17 21:46:38 <romainguy_> languish: $59 for 2 lines with unlimited nights & weekends + 5 unlimited numbers per line
Oct 17 21:46:39 <languish> romainguy, we get more minutes per dollar not using the family plan
Oct 17 21:47:55 <languish> we use about 850mins/month on average, and like having the extra 150 minutes in case we have an ecessive month
Oct 17 21:47:57 <languish> each
Oct 17 21:48:12 <languish> that's primetime minutes, not nights/weekends
Oct 17 21:48:36 <unix_infidel> anyone on my earlier question?  auto-minimize panels in eclipse?
Oct 17 21:48:46 <languish> if tmo would drop nights back to 7pm like it was when we first signed up, it would be a different story
Oct 17 21:49:04 <jasta> i should probably pay attention to this
Oct 17 21:49:09 <jasta> because ill be a brand new t-mobile customer
Oct 17 21:49:21 <jasta> AT&T pricing seems rpetty good, but i bet T-Mobile's is gonna be better so that's nice
Oct 17 21:49:28 <languish> heh
Oct 17 21:49:47 <jasta> with AT&T I get 900 minutes + rollover + N/WE for $60/mo, with $30/mo for data+sms
Oct 17 21:49:51 <languish> there are tradeoffs
Oct 17 21:50:08 <languish> att's connectivity is better
Oct 17 21:50:43 <romainguy_> depends where
Oct 17 21:50:50 <romainguy_> T-Mobile was surprisingly better for me here
Oct 17 21:50:55 <languish> true
Oct 17 21:51:21 <languish> in my neighborhood, tmo's connectivity is better, but alnost everywhere else I go, att is better
Oct 17 21:51:37 <languish> also, tmo's signal sucks indoors in most places in manhattan
Oct 17 21:51:39 <umdk1d3> in urban areas there might be a difference, but in most rural areas everyone uses the same towers  :/
Oct 17 21:51:52 <languish> it's not just about the towers
Oct 17 21:52:09 <languish> it's about how they modulate the signal and all this other crap.. how well it penetrates walls
Oct 17 21:53:23 <languish> I can't get tmo signal in my park avenue lawyers office, but att and verizon work just fine there
Oct 17 21:53:50 <languish> when I go there, they hand me an office phone during the time I'm there
Oct 17 21:54:20 <umdk1d3> right, thats in an urban area tho
Oct 17 21:54:36 <languish> it's new york city
Oct 17 21:54:40 <languish> 10 million people
Oct 17 21:54:51 <languish> you think they'd work better indoors by now
Oct 17 21:55:24 <umdk1d3> the majority of the country is serviced by typically just one GSM provider, and the non-native carriers have roaming agreements
Oct 17 21:55:48 <languish> nod
Oct 17 21:55:48 <languish> "not my problem" except that it is
Oct 17 21:55:49 <f00f-> umdk1d3: hey dude.. congrats on the latest press about your itunes thing ;)
Oct 17 21:55:57 <JoeAFK> I need to get a roaming agreement with my gf
Oct 17 21:56:06 <umdk1d3> oh thanks lol, was happy it actually worked for him
Oct 17 21:56:10 <muthu_> powercut at 3am
Oct 17 21:56:19 <languish> JoeAFK, you'll likely need to upgrade your model for that
Oct 17 21:56:31 <umdk1d3> lol @ JoeAFK
Oct 17 21:56:54 <JoeAFK> hah
Oct 17 21:56:59 <languish> :)
Oct 17 22:01:01 <taaz> umdk1d3: i just gave up on the remote app.  didn't feel like debugging network crap.
Oct 17 22:01:43 <umdk1d3> taaz: you have a device?
Oct 17 22:01:49 <taaz> i probably just missed the itunes "Allow Android apps" checkbox
Oct 17 22:01:58 <taaz> nope
Oct 17 22:02:13 <umdk1d3> it should be a *lot* easier on the real device
Oct 17 22:02:23 <taaz> yeah.  i'll try again then.
Oct 17 22:03:03 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: it is
Oct 17 22:03:07 <languish> if anything ruins android, it'll be the carriers :|
Oct 17 22:05:53 <muthu_> agree
Oct 17 22:06:10 <muthu_> carriers will piss off the users
Oct 17 22:06:30 <JoeAFK> I blame carriers for the state of all handsets in general
Oct 17 22:08:53 <languish> I'm glad the g1 doesn't have a physical sliding lock switch
Oct 17 22:09:06 <languish> I always forget about the damn thing on the zune
Oct 17 22:09:22 <languish> sometimes it gets slid to lock while the device is off
Oct 17 22:09:46 <languish> takes me a minute to remember the damn switch, and not that the zine is dead
Oct 17 22:09:50 <languish> *zune
Oct 17 22:10:14 <languish> yes, sometimes, I cam an idiot. that's a given
Oct 17 22:12:59 <languish> I'm curious to see how well my US G1 will perform in the .uk
Oct 17 22:13:27 <JoeAFK> in terms of cellphone usage?
Oct 17 22:13:31 <JoeAFK> Is it quadband?
Oct 17 22:13:39 <jasta> it's quad GSM, dual UMTS
Oct 17 22:13:51 <jasta> UMTS2100 which is standard across most of Europe
Oct 17 22:14:06 <languish> well, it supports both HSUPA and HSDPA
Oct 17 22:15:01 <languish> so I'd like to see how my connectivity will be, if it's a seemless transition
Oct 17 22:15:30 <jasta> hehe, ive been using my app (through the emu) to listen to music at work for weeks now
Oct 17 22:15:33 <jasta> it's so great :)
Oct 17 22:15:46 <languish> :)
Oct 17 22:16:21 <jasta> reinforces how much nicer my approach is than traditional media players
Oct 17 22:16:28 <languish> lol
Oct 17 22:16:31 <jasta> got some new album yesterday even, came into work, and bam :)
Oct 17 22:16:40 <JoeAFK> can i ask what your app is called jasta?
Oct 17 22:16:48 <jasta> JoeAFK: http://five.googlecode.com
Oct 17 22:16:53 <JoeAFK> thanks
Oct 17 22:16:54 <languish> the tmo internal issues with bandwidth usage worries me
Oct 17 22:17:04 <jasta> JoeAFK: the screenshots there are outdated, i'm gonna update them this weekend
Oct 17 22:17:16 <JoeAFK> ah k
Oct 17 22:17:57 <languish> streaming music all day, most of the week, plus my regular data usage, plus some streaming video, plus eventually some RDP action...
Oct 17 22:18:17 <JoeAFK> internal issues?
Oct 17 22:18:23 <languish> without any p2p traffic or "abuse" just regular usage
Oct 17 22:18:37 <jasta> languish: oh im sure there will be some contention...
Oct 17 22:18:47 <languish> JoeAFK, yeah, they have a stick up their asses about "regular" data usage in areas like mine
Oct 17 22:18:49 <jasta> but thats impossible to predict
Oct 17 22:19:15 <JoeAFK> I'm already capped on my home broadband
Oct 17 22:19:21 <languish> their whole 1Gb data use BS before is an obvious indicator of it
Oct 17 22:19:27 <f00f-> issues list link' on main page is broekn jasta
Oct 17 22:19:36 <JoeAFK> ironic
Oct 17 22:19:39 <jasta> f00f-: i just noticed that actually
Oct 17 22:19:44 <jasta> fixed it right as you typed that
Oct 17 22:19:52 <languish> jasta, it's t-mobile, it's quite easy to predict.
Oct 17 22:20:10 <languish> I'll hit 2.5 Gb and my service will die
Oct 17 22:20:14 <jasta> f00f-: just links to the projects Issues tab th
Oct 17 22:20:15 <jasta> tho*
Oct 17 22:20:44 <JoeAFK> Wont they rape you with charges over limit first languish?  Even if you have an unlimited plan?
Oct 17 22:20:48 <languish> I mean, casual all day use will hit about 1gb inside 10 days
Oct 17 22:20:54 <languish> JoeAFK, no
Oct 17 22:21:06 <jasta> JoeAFK: that isn't in the contract.
Oct 17 22:21:09 <jasta> (so no)
Oct 17 22:21:11 <languish> JoeAFK, they'll start by limiting the data rate to 50KB
Oct 17 22:21:26 <languish> everything will get dial-up slow
Oct 17 22:21:49 <jasta> if i get my G1 on Wed, i will hit that by Wed night ;)
Oct 17 22:21:55 <languish> heh
Oct 17 22:21:59 <jasta> i won't be able to put the stupid thing down i'm sure
Oct 17 22:22:12 <languish> yeah, so when your connectivity turns to shit, you'll know why
Oct 17 22:22:15 <languish> rather
Oct 17 22:22:20 <languish> your transfer rate
Oct 17 22:22:49 <jasta> f00f-: there are a lot, that's the important part ;)
Oct 17 22:22:55 <unix_lappy> well this isnt a blackberry or an iphone or one of those heavily mass marketed devices.
Oct 17 22:22:57 <languish> tmo's always been very good about moderate use.. they'll let you get away with all kinds of shit under moderate bandwidth use
Oct 17 22:23:00 <unix_lappy> this is a pretty geeky device.
Oct 17 22:23:09 <languish> but they're total nazi's with "regular" data usage
Oct 17 22:23:35 <languish> and they still have the outdated concepts about what data use should be
Oct 17 22:25:08 <f00f-> yeah i'm looking at them jasta. no new commiters eh?
Oct 17 22:25:17 <jasta> f00f-: unfortunately, no. :\
Oct 17 22:25:33 <jasta> there are a few people who have expressed some interest and are pining through the code
Oct 17 22:25:38 <jasta> but so far no one has contributed directly
Oct 17 22:25:53 <jasta> that said, i'm gonna try a little PR on Monday to fix that
Oct 17 22:26:22 <jasta> record a new video after this weekend when i've got some issues ironed out, and post it to planetandroid.com
Oct 17 22:26:44 <f00f-> yeah a video would be swell
Oct 17 22:26:56 <jasta> gonna try to sell the idea to get some developers interested in helping me tidy up for 1.0
Oct 17 22:27:13 <jasta> the issues remaining represent about 3 months worth of work for me personally.  with a larger team, i could see it happening inside of 2 months.
Oct 17 22:29:04 <f00f-> not bad, but are the core media player functions usable?
Oct 17 22:29:11 <jasta> absolutely
Oct 17 22:29:13 <f00f-> if you just had local files
Oct 17 22:29:14 <f00f-> ok
Oct 17 22:29:15 <jasta> fully tested on real hardware
Oct 17 22:29:29 <jasta> oh no, the mediaplayer stuff works for even stream/caching too
Oct 17 22:29:35 <jasta> the basic concept here is totally working
Oct 17 22:29:44 <f00f-> i'd say that's beta quality then :D
Oct 17 22:29:45 <jasta> you install a server, it scans crap, you sync with it, then you get all your music streaming to you
Oct 17 22:29:55 <taaz> does ogg streaming work?
Oct 17 22:29:59 <jasta> the issue is that there are a lot of little dark corners about "oops, doesn't do this." :)
Oct 17 22:30:07 <jasta> taaz: no, because of the fucking piece of crap MediaPlayer
Oct 17 22:30:19 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/five/issues/detail?id=31
Oct 17 22:30:23 <taaz> unfortunate that my entire music collection is in ogg eh?
Oct 17 22:30:35 <jasta> taaz: well, the server is going to include a [lame] work-around.
Oct 17 22:30:46 <jasta> see that issue :)
Oct 17 22:31:46 <jasta> f00f-: for instance, i am just now working on getting playlist synchronization done :)
Oct 17 22:31:46 <languish> *sigh*
Oct 17 22:32:02 <jasta> it'll be finsihed this weekend for sure.  that's my highest priority task right now
Oct 17 22:32:06 <languish> I'm really going to have to carry some kind of flashlight/led light with my g1
Oct 17 22:32:14 <jasta> ?
Oct 17 22:32:17 <languish> just to take pictures
Oct 17 22:32:33 <jasta> every mobile phone ive ever used is bad at that
Oct 17 22:32:39 <languish> led spotlight belt buckle :/
Oct 17 22:32:56 <f00f-> ah cool
Oct 17 22:32:58 <jasta> f00f-: my StreamMediaPlayer class is uber.  works around lots of MediaPlayer issues...
Oct 17 22:33:06 <languish> jasta, point being.. the other device I wanted, the touch pro.. from the same manufacturer.. has an led light
Oct 17 22:33:13 <f00f-> jasta btw did you ever find an elegant solution to cancelling active http requests using HttpClient ?
Oct 17 22:33:22 <languish> pisses me off they didn't include it
Oct 17 22:33:30 <jasta> f00f-: yes, i found it it's just that the HttpCore version included with Android at the time (M5) was busted.
Oct 17 22:33:42 <jasta> the version in 0.9r1 and 1.0r1 is not busted, and so the solution works without any modification.
Oct 17 22:33:50 <jasta> f00f-: i use it all over Five and other projects...
Oct 17 22:34:11 <jasta> in fact, my LocalHttpServer hack to do the streaming synchronizes all its threads just to make sure :)
Oct 17 22:34:22 <f00f-> hehe
Oct 17 22:34:26 <languish> as long as I can watch my 350mb eztv .avi's
Oct 17 22:34:32 <languish> then I'll be ok
Oct 17 22:34:37 <languish> :\
Oct 17 22:35:39 <muthu_> jasta: will 5 work as a regular media player?
Oct 17 22:36:05 <jasta> yes
Oct 17 22:36:22 <jasta> forgot to add that issue actually, 1 sec
Oct 17 22:36:29 <languish> lol
Oct 17 22:36:50 <jasta> f00f-: i mean synchronizes as in, when you say shutdown/abort, it waits for the thread to die before returning to you.  so any issues with the graceful cleanup would be noticed in the UI
Oct 17 22:36:50 <languish> muthu you said "will" not "does" :)
Oct 17 22:37:13 <jasta> oh wait no, i do have that issue :)
Oct 17 22:37:20 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/five/issues/detail?id=36
Oct 17 22:37:20 <jasta> :)
Oct 17 22:37:25 <languish> lol
Oct 17 22:37:25 <muthu_> cool
Oct 17 22:37:43 <languish> microsd card access
Oct 17 22:37:50 <jasta> every issue listed there Medium or higher is release critical for 1.0...
Oct 17 22:37:50 <languish> and away!
Oct 17 22:38:19 <languish> until it breaks with some android firmware update :/
Oct 17 22:38:29 <languish> I'm so looking forward to those
Oct 17 22:38:55 <languish> I don't think my wife groks that concept
Oct 17 22:39:24 <romainguy__> languish: why would it break?
Oct 17 22:39:34 <romainguy__> if you stick to public APIs... :)
Oct 17 22:39:35 <languish> romainguy, nature of the beast
Oct 17 22:41:51 <languish> I know googles working hard to avoid that
Oct 17 22:42:02 <languish> they'll likely do a better job than apple did
Oct 17 22:42:06 <languish> but it'll happen
Oct 17 22:46:13 <jasta> romainguy__: well, at some point you will find flaws in your API...
Oct 17 22:46:26 <romainguy__> and we'll deal with them
Oct 17 22:46:31 <romainguy__> we won't break binary compatibility
Oct 17 22:46:51 <languish> we need a quote bot in here
Oct 17 22:46:53 <languish> lol
Oct 17 22:47:01 <romainguy__> well unless the said API can destroy the universe :)
Oct 17 22:47:05 <jasta> i guess i'm talking out of my ass.  i don't know much about how java maintains binary compat.  adding method signatures i assume does not disrupt that?
Oct 17 22:47:08 <languish> :)
Oct 17 22:47:14 <romainguy__> no it doesn't
Oct 17 22:47:26 <romainguy__> for instance, a Java 1.0.2 app still works on Java SE 1.6 without recompiling
Oct 17 22:47:36 <romainguy__> now maybe the behavior is a little different
Oct 17 22:47:40 <romainguy__> but the binaries are not  broken :)
Oct 17 22:47:50 <jasta> interesting, yeah i guess that would be easy to provide...
Oct 17 22:47:53 <muthu> you can't madly change interfaces (contracts) though
Oct 17 22:47:56 <romainguy__> we might break source compatibility
Oct 17 22:47:59 <romainguy__> but not binary compatibility
Oct 17 22:48:17 <romainguy__> muthu: you can, it only breaks source compatibility, not binary compatibility
Oct 17 22:48:25 <romainguy__> (as long as you don't call the new methods on old implementers)
Oct 17 22:48:26 <jasta> romainguy__: i always wondered how you would go about building your project to suit older versions of things...
Oct 17 22:48:39 <jasta> i don't know what techniques are available in general for Java developers
Oct 17 22:48:40 <muthu> romainguy: right
Oct 17 22:49:08 <romainguy__> jasta: dynamic class loading (doesn't work for now), factories based on platform version number of reflection
Oct 17 22:49:19 <romainguy__> or you just stop supporting old versions of the platform
Oct 17 22:49:23 <jasta> ahh, right.  that makes sense.
Oct 17 22:49:39 <jasta> does that introduce significant performance overhead in most VMs?
Oct 17 22:49:49 <romainguy__> the use of factories is common in Java SE desktop apps to support Linux/Windows/MacOSX
Oct 17 22:49:54 <romainguy__> reflection? yes
Oct 17 22:50:00 <romainguy__> fadden can tell you all about it :p
Oct 17 22:50:18 <jasta> why?  what does fadden work on?
Oct 17 22:50:30 <romainguy__> Android stuff
Oct 17 22:50:48 <jasta> but what specifically can he tell me about? :)
Oct 17 22:50:56 <romainguy__> reflection
Oct 17 22:51:13 <romainguy__> fadden: *poke*
Oct 17 22:52:45 <jasta> what sort of techniques are there to limit this performance overhead?  like what if the MediaPlayer class gets all kinds of new features that i want to utilize, but poor old 1.0 users should still be supported with my lame hacks for a little while
Oct 17 22:53:01 <jasta> i wouldn't want significant performance overhead interacting with it just to support backwards compat...
Oct 17 22:53:31 <romainguy__> I like a factory approach in this case
Oct 17 22:53:32 <dmoffett> Do what apple does make them buy new hardware.  :-)
Oct 17 22:53:40 <muthu_> jasta: the platform takes care of backwards compat
Oct 17 22:54:50 <jasta> romainguy__: do you have any examples of something like this?  i'd like to look.
Oct 17 22:55:47 <jasta> romainguy__: i haven't been writing Java for long so admittedly i don't know much about solutions to practical issues like this
Oct 17 22:56:08 <romainguy__> it's nothing really complex
Oct 17 22:56:17 <romainguy__> you just create a base class or interface with your own API
Oct 17 22:56:21 <romainguy__> then two implementations
Oct 17 22:56:30 <romainguy__> one for Android 1.0, one for Android 1.1
Oct 17 22:56:45 <romainguy__> and you just instantiate one of the two depending on the platform version
Oct 17 22:56:52 <romainguy__> so it adds a layer
Oct 17 22:56:55 <jasta> but that would be through reflection, yes?
Oct 17 22:56:58 <romainguy__> no
Oct 17 22:57:18 <romainguy__> let's say you have a StreamMediaPlayer interface
Oct 17 22:57:26 <jasta> oh i see what you mean.  because you're building an APK with newer method signatures but because android remains backwards compat it won't be an issue
Oct 17 22:57:34 <romainguy__> yes
Oct 17 22:57:57 <romainguy__> as long as you don't executed the newer code on old versions of the platform, everything's fine
Oct 17 22:58:01 <jasta> so you've just got some extra crufty code that will flip out at runtime if the code path runs on Android 1.0, but you guarantee it wont.  ok, that's pretty elegant.
Oct 17 22:58:08 <romainguy__> unless dalvik's verifier does stuff with it
Oct 17 22:58:11 <romainguy__> again fadden would know
Oct 17 23:00:57 <muthu_> 5am
Oct 17 23:01:10 <muthu_> 4:31am
Oct 17 23:02:26 <jasta> a lot of my MediaPlayer issues havent been responded to.  i wonder what's going on there :)
Oct 17 23:02:49 <jasta> i'm hearing from some folks that the MediaPlayer class internally is in really, really bad shape hehe
Oct 17 23:05:23 <f00f-> muthu is doign a major release next week?
Oct 17 23:05:37 <muthu_> 22
Oct 17 23:05:45 <jasta> major release of what?
Oct 17 23:05:49 <muthu_> lot of things broken as of now
Oct 17 23:10:03 <Disconnect> for the record, i hate the layout tool. or possibly the layout xml. either way, turning the paper map into the code is not working for me :)
Oct 17 23:10:13 <Disconnect> oh but i finally got tracking info. my g1 is in louisville.
Oct 17 23:10:17 <Disconnect> eta tues :(
Oct 17 23:11:12 <jasta> Disconnect: i haven't even loaded that thing up yet hehe
Oct 17 23:11:36 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 17 23:11:44 <jasta> no really, i haven't even seen what it looks like :)
Oct 17 23:11:45 <Disconnect> when its not eating all my ram its fairly useful.
Oct 17 23:11:56 <jasta> i edit all my XML through vim because Eclipse drove me mad
Oct 17 23:11:58 <Lenolium> Disconnect: Mine's shipping from the same place as yours, same ETA for arrivial.
Oct 17 23:12:25 <jasta> that reminds me, i should get an order in for one of those HTC ExtUSB dongle thingies
Oct 17 23:12:26 <Disconnect> mine is going to wash dc.. (basically)
Oct 17 23:12:30 <jasta> so i can actually listen to music
Oct 17 23:12:46 <Disconnect> yah :( buddy of mine was a huge htc fan for years. and 3 weeks ago he donated all his old adapters and phones. doh!
Oct 17 23:13:02 <jasta> hey, does the G1 have a decently loud speaker so you could just listen to music with it sitting on your desk?
Oct 17 23:13:09 <romainguy__> didn't T-Mobile said they would put the adapter with the G1
Oct 17 23:13:11 <Disconnect> jasta: according to reviews, sorta.
Oct 17 23:13:13 <romainguy__> but not in the first batch?
Oct 17 23:13:16 <Disconnect> romainguy__: right
Oct 17 23:13:16 <jasta> Disconnect: ?
Oct 17 23:13:22 <romainguy__> jasta: yes, it's loud
Oct 17 23:13:29 <romainguy__> it's actually the loudest phone speaker I've heard
Oct 17 23:13:32 <Disconnect> jasta: yes, loud enough to listen. no, not on the desk - muffles it too much.
Oct 17 23:13:39 <jasta> ahh
Oct 17 23:13:51 <romainguy__> Disconnect: flip it the other way :)
Oct 17 23:13:54 <jasta> what if you just flip the phone over? :)  isnt the speaker on the bottom back?
Oct 17 23:13:56 <Disconnect> eh
Oct 17 23:13:58 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 17 23:14:05 * jasta looks at romain
Oct 17 23:14:05 <romainguy__> but it depends on your environment I guess
Oct 17 23:14:11 <romainguy__> I don't find it too muffled on my desk
Oct 17 23:14:11 <Disconnect> i am looking forward to the itunes/amarok remotes mostly.
Oct 17 23:14:34 <jasta> i would like to see a nice general purpose home automation framework integrated
Oct 17 23:14:37 <Disconnect> but first, its beer oclock before i regroup on this xml mess.
Oct 17 23:14:46 <jasta> a really slick home remote, music, lights, etc
Oct 17 23:15:27 <jasta> of course it probably wont be open source, and itll cost $20, and won't support anything i use.
Oct 17 23:15:30 <jasta> Sigh. :)
Oct 17 23:15:31 <JoeAFK> homemade rave party?
Oct 17 23:15:47 <languish> Ahs anyone that's been beta testing the g1's done a performance comparison with different microSD cards?
Oct 17 23:16:18 <jasta> languish: i was wondering this as well.  i was cautioned by my roommate not to get a poor performing storage card, but he didnt have much useful info on how to make sure you get a good one
Oct 17 23:16:43 <languish> jasta, start by going with a known name brand and class 6 or class 8
Oct 17 23:16:48 <romainguy> I just grabbed a SanDisk 8 GB
Oct 17 23:16:50 <romainguy> works fine
Oct 17 23:16:52 <andyross> Not sure, but isn't SD clocked from the host?  Are different manufacturer's cards even allowed to be different speeds?
Oct 17 23:17:02 <languish> romainguy, what class is it?
Oct 17 23:17:31 <romainguy> no idea :)
Oct 17 23:17:39 <jasta> yeah i didnt know that was even a metric of sd cards?
Oct 17 23:17:49 <ttuttle> Alright, this is going in version control.
Oct 17 23:17:50 <romainguy> and given what I do with it that doesn't really matter
Oct 17 23:17:53 <ttuttle> I just blew away one of my files. :-(
Oct 17 23:18:03 <languish> andyross, seems to be a difference between the responsiveness of a device, and the rated 'speed" of i/o
Oct 17 23:18:16 <jasta> romainguy__: it will matter a lot for my app, because of the way i work around some mediaplayer issues i abuse the SD card a bit
Oct 17 23:18:56 <andyross> But "responsiveness" isn't an electrical parameter.  Like I said, not being an expert: I believe SD is hard-clocked from the host.  There isn't a query/response kind of thing where a device could add its own delays.  I think.
Oct 17 23:19:21 <languish> here'sd an example... http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2008/09/sandisk-ultra-8gb-microsd-better.html
Oct 17 23:19:55 <languish> I've heard this from tech reviewers I know here in NY a number of times
Oct 17 23:20:30 <languish> but no one's really gone out on a limb to compare decisively, and most don't even know where to start because of the lack of oversight on SD card manufacturing
Oct 17 23:20:52 <andyross> Note that there are different revs of the standard (SDHC, etc...) that specify different speeds, of course.  Somewhere there's a datasheet that will answer this conclusively.
Oct 17 23:21:50 <languish> andyross, I think it's more complicated than that
Oct 17 23:22:14 <languish> I believe it's an issue of the individual devices SD slot/controller implimentation
Oct 17 23:22:37 <languish> because the same card, on different devices, appears to have more or less impact, based on which device
Oct 17 23:22:38 <andyross> The controller, yes.  But not the card.
Oct 17 23:23:11 <romainguy> languish: the URL you posted, that's the card I use
Oct 17 23:23:25 <languish> Well, as there's no manufacturing oversight for SD cards, we can end up getting class 6 labled cards, that are actually class 2/4
Oct 17 23:23:28 <romainguy> but which class...
Oct 17 23:23:55 <romainguy> ah wait
Oct 17 23:23:58 <romainguy> it's a class 8
Oct 17 23:24:09 <languish> so you have the best current card
Oct 17 23:24:09 <ttuttle> Wait, they make class 8?
Oct 17 23:24:12 <languish> yes
Oct 17 23:24:13 <ttuttle> Mine's only a class 4 :-(
Oct 17 23:24:22 <ttuttle> I mean, it should work fine, but...
Oct 17 23:24:42 <romainguy> you can get class 2 for very cheap too :)
Oct 17 23:24:47 <ttuttle> romainguy: Oh yeah.
Oct 17 23:25:14 <languish> yeah, from what I've seen, based on what your task is.. a lesser performing card causes obvious delays in the interaction with the device
Oct 17 23:26:22 <languish> romainguy, would you have the full part number from the packaging handy for that card?
Oct 17 23:26:33 <languish> ..or at your leisure
Oct 17 23:26:45 <romainguy__> I don't have the packaging
Oct 17 23:26:49 <languish> nod
Oct 17 23:27:07 <romainguy__> argh
Oct 17 23:27:13 <romainguy__> tunewiki is putting images on the sdcard
Oct 17 23:27:20 <romainguy__> that are picked up by the media scanner
Oct 17 23:27:23 <romainguy__> booooo TuneWiki
Oct 17 23:27:26 <languish> o.O
Oct 17 23:31:35 <umdk1d3> romainguy__: isnt that where you're caching your book covers tho?  :P
Oct 17 23:32:58 <romainguy__> yes
Oct 17 23:33:07 <romainguy__> but I made sure they would not be picked up by the media scanner
Oct 17 23:33:12 <romainguy__> you just need to remove the file extension
Oct 17 23:33:20 <romainguy__> or name the directory .something
Oct 17 23:33:26 <romainguy__> or add a special empty file in the directory
Oct 17 23:33:51 * umdk1d3 flails arms--and where is this documented?  :P
Oct 17 23:34:00 <umdk1d3> lol
Oct 17 23:34:09 <romainguy__> don't ask questions :)
Oct 17 23:34:20 <Disconnect> empty file is the Right Answer (of those listed) but yah, thats a huge issue on maemo also - its impossible to tell the media indexer not to index dirs
Oct 17 23:34:22 <JoeAFK> :O
Oct 17 23:34:46 <f00f-> touch .noindex <-- should be as easy as that
Oct 17 23:34:55 <romainguy__> here you go
Oct 17 23:35:27 <romainguy__> Disconnect: I actually like the no file extension approach
Oct 17 23:36:25 <Disconnect> yuck. file extensions exist by common convention to id filetypes.. why break that, esp to prevent an indexer from indexing stuff thats none of it's business anyway?
Oct 17 23:36:28 <umdk1d3> well romainguy__ that prevents easy file identification tho
Oct 17 23:37:07 <romainguy__> umdk1d3: and I'm fine with it :)
Oct 17 23:37:31 <romainguy__> Disconnect: because it's just a cache so there's no reason to identify the files in there
Oct 17 23:37:46 <Disconnect> how often does it expire?
Oct 17 23:38:13 <romainguy__> it doesn't for now
Oct 17 23:41:06 <VickiWong> does Android access current date/time same way as any Java app?
Oct 17 23:42:29 <VickiWong> sorry that was worded wrongly..
Oct 17 23:42:42 <VickiWong> can I access current date/time in my android app the same way as any Java app?
Oct 17 23:43:37 <commonsguy> if you mean by new Date() and kin, yes
Oct 17 23:44:47 <VickiWong> commonsguy: great :)
Oct 17 23:45:22 <VickiWong> so tricky trying to code in J2ME one day and in Android the next...
Oct 17 23:45:24 <VickiWong> for me anyway
Oct 17 23:45:29 <Disconnect> ok this is seriously not funny. eclipse takes up 2+ gigs of ram because i am typing into the xml entry in the layout editor.
Oct 17 23:45:54 <Disconnect> VickiWong: just do j2me and let the applet runner translate :)
Oct 17 23:46:20 <commonsguy> VickiWong: I did find I needed to set the timezone in the emulator via -timezone "America/New_York", otherwise it seemed to default to UTC
Oct 17 23:46:44 <VickiWong> commonsguy: thanks for the tip :)
Oct 17 23:46:57 <VickiWong> Disconnect: meh thats not at 100% from what i remember
Oct 17 23:47:10 <Disconnect> enough for opera mini, beyond that i dunno
Oct 17 23:51:37 <Disconnect> any good cheat sheet for the various layout types? (found the layouts list, looking for one that lists all the types with 1-liner summaries)
Oct 17 23:54:38 <Disconnect> actually.. i might be looking for a listview. basic drop-down list selector..?
Oct 18 00:00:36 <ttuttle> Hmm.
Oct 18 00:01:02 * Disconnect isn't finding it :(
Oct 18 00:01:20 <romainguy__> what are you looking for?
Oct 18 00:01:28 <Disconnect> a basic drop-down text list
Oct 18 00:01:37 <romainguy__> it's called Spinner
Oct 18 00:01:40 <Disconnect> ahhhhhh cool
Oct 18 00:01:49 <Disconnect> thanks :)
Oct 18 00:09:59 <ttuttle> romainguy__: Is there a list of all the system drawables and such somewhere?
Oct 18 00:10:36 <ttuttle> romainguy__: Oh, it's just under android.R.*;
Oct 18 00:29:10 <VickiWong> Wow, i have a button that 'should' be parsing in a reaosnable sized XML file from the net, counting certain tags etc and printing out values using System.out
Oct 18 00:29:23 <VickiWong> I have a bunch of catch exceptions with output if anything goes wrong
Oct 18 00:29:32 <VickiWong> but when clicking the button i get .... nothing
Oct 18 00:29:51 <VickiWong> the app doesnt even freeze, it just does nothing
Oct 18 00:30:56 <f00f-> did you connect it?
Oct 18 00:31:23 <VickiWong> did i connect?
Oct 18 00:31:57 <VickiWong> connect what
Oct 18 00:32:16 <f00f-> myButton.setOnClickListener(..)
Oct 18 00:32:57 <VickiWong> ahh yes it's a menu button, and i have it presenting a Toast as well before running my parseXML method
Oct 18 00:33:01 <VickiWong> and the toast shows up fine
Oct 18 00:33:20 <VickiWong> in onOptionsItemSelected
Oct 18 00:34:20 <f00f-> add some debugging or show some code
Oct 18 00:34:52 <f00f-> are you doing it in the toast's callback method?
Oct 18 00:35:13 <f00f-> a toast might be destroyed without.... let me see
Oct 18 00:35:47 <VickiWong> i have catchs for SAXParseException, SAXException and Throwable when trying the XML parsing
Oct 18 00:35:49 <f00f-> no, i'm thinking about an alert
Oct 18 00:36:08 <f00f-> how are you getting it from the network?
Oct 18 00:36:10 <VickiWong> ill move the toast to after the method call, make sure the app is making it through the call
Oct 18 00:37:21 <VickiWong> and here is my parseXML method http://pastebin.com/m2910f315
Oct 18 00:38:02 <VickiWong> im simply printing out some info from the xml file, to make sure i got everything working before i do anything meaningful with the data
Oct 18 00:38:35 <f00f-> umm
Oct 18 00:38:41 <f00f-> does docBuilder.parse actually fetch the URL ?
Oct 18 00:38:50 <f00f-> i thought it takes in a string of xml
Oct 18 00:39:40 <VickiWong> i got the docbuilder code from a tut so it could be bad code
Oct 18 00:39:45 <f00f-> i would use XmlPullParser though, if it's just rss
Oct 18 00:39:51 <f00f-> but that's secondary
Oct 18 00:39:53 <romainguy> hmm
Oct 18 00:40:04 <romainguy> I don't remember if we redirect System.out.println
Oct 18 00:40:18 <f00f-> i know .err is redirected
Oct 18 00:40:23 <romainguy> yes
Oct 18 00:40:28 <VickiWong> I tried displayign the toast afetr call parseXML and the toast displayed fine again
Oct 18 00:40:44 <romainguy> I would replace the System.out.println by Log.d instead
Oct 18 00:40:55 <romainguy> and where are you looking for the results you print?
Oct 18 00:41:10 <VickiWong> but it seems to be flying through the method call, perhaps im not parsing the URL properly like you suggested
Oct 18 00:41:17 <VickiWong> romainguy: Eclipse console output
Oct 18 00:41:29 <romainguy> you need to look in the Logcat view
Oct 18 00:41:35 <romainguy> the console output will not show anything
Oct 18 00:42:11 <f00f-> i personally prefer opening up the terminal running 'adb logcat' -- way easier to copy/paste/debug
Oct 18 00:42:17 <romainguy__> works too
Oct 18 00:42:22 <romainguy__> but definitely not the Eclipse console
Oct 18 00:42:28 <f00f-> the logcat view needs some work imo
Oct 18 00:42:47 <romainguy__> feel free to fix it when it's open source
Oct 18 00:43:30 <VickiWong> romainguy: ahh ok, so ill replace system.out with Log.d and I now have the Logcat window added :)
Oct 18 00:43:35 <f00f-> yeah :D
Oct 18 00:44:41 <VickiWong> gotta add tags too :)
Oct 18 00:48:58 <VickiWong> f00f-: parse does accept a URI  public Document  parse(String uri)
Oct 18 00:50:56 <VickiWong> romainguy: I tried making the system outs Log.d, and i have the logcat window open but im seeing nothing : \
Oct 18 01:01:57 <VickiWong> the code seems so simple as well, and im not getting any errors or exceptions being thrown that i can see
Oct 18 01:02:00 <VickiWong> http://pastebin.com/m7543ead6
Oct 18 01:04:21 <f00f-> put a log statement right after try {
Oct 18 01:05:46 <f00f-> wtf
Oct 18 01:05:51 <f00f-> why does CTRL-F12 stop working
Oct 18 01:07:08 <f00f-> romainguy
Oct 18 01:07:16 <f00f-> what should screenOrientation be set to in the manifest for my activities?
Oct 18 01:07:27 <f00f-> i want it to be based on if the device is open or not
Oct 18 01:07:29 <f00f-> so 'user' ?
Oct 18 01:08:02 <VickiWong> f00f-: dammit needed to restart Eclipse after adding Logcat window
Oct 18 01:08:22 <f00f-> shouldnt need to...
Oct 18 01:09:01 <VickiWong> f00f-: im getting 'Parsing error uri null, InputSource needs either stream or read' from on of the catch  statements
Oct 18 01:09:08 <VickiWong> SAXParseException
Oct 18 01:09:29 <VickiWong> well i restarted Eclipse and the logcat is running fine :) before it wasnt displaying anything
Oct 18 01:10:28 <VickiWong> So i need to build an inputstream for the URL, and then parse that
Oct 18 01:10:35 * plusminus_ AndNav2-Status: Now routing on OSM-data *DANCE*
Oct 18 01:11:36 <VickiWong> plusminus_: awesome, I have been following AndNav1/2, especially through your forum :)
Oct 18 01:12:09 <f00f-> VickiWong: new URL("http://bleh").openStream()
Oct 18 01:12:14 <f00f-> for a very inelegant solution
Oct 18 01:12:49 <f00f-> plusminus_: what do you use to route on the backend?
Oct 18 01:13:01 <plusminus_> openrouteservice
Oct 18 01:13:02 <plusminus_> .org
Oct 18 01:13:36 <plusminus_> VickiWong: It'll take maybe about a week testing when I get my G1, so I hope to be up with an AndNav2-Beta in around 2 weeks from now :)
Oct 18 01:13:51 <f00f-> are they scalable?
Oct 18 01:13:58 <VickiWong> plusminus_: wish we had G1's over hear i oculd play with it on :D
Oct 18 01:14:11 <VickiWong> here*
Oct 18 01:14:19 <plusminus_> I'm currently in the US so I can get one :-P
Oct 18 01:14:28 <VickiWong> ahh, we have no such luck in hong kong
Oct 18 01:15:01 <Disconnect> yah but you have brando
Oct 18 01:15:08 <Disconnect> for whatever thats worth :)
Oct 18 01:15:15 <VickiWong> hopefully when the source is released it'll get ported quick to a device i can actually get hold of
Oct 18 01:15:27 <plusminus_> lets hope os :)
Oct 18 01:15:34 <winrefund> hello
Oct 18 01:15:46 <VickiWong> Disconnect: lol, good site
Oct 18 01:16:05 <Disconnect> doesn't he still have a storefront?
Oct 18 01:16:30 <VickiWong> i believe so
Oct 18 01:17:09 <VickiWong> not much of a brando fan
Oct 18 01:17:53 <Disconnect> some is good, some is weird, lots is crap :)
Oct 18 01:18:48 <VickiWong> plus it's expensive
Oct 18 01:19:07 <Disconnect> depends. got my old c760 for $250 less than expansys so...
Oct 18 01:19:17 <VickiWong> expensive for locals :)
Oct 18 01:19:21 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 18 01:19:28 <Disconnect> well must be nice for you.. :P
Oct 18 01:19:35 <winrefund> I'm thinking that this kill switch functionality is not in the spirit of the free software community
Oct 18 01:19:41 <VickiWong> well our wages reflect costs so not really :D
Oct 18 01:19:57 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 18 01:20:00 <VickiWong> winrefund: lol they are getting a lot of stick for it dont worry
Oct 18 01:20:03 <Disconnect> thats frequently the problem
Oct 18 01:20:25 <VickiWong> Disconnect: great for me though, when i bring back GBP i earn in uk :)
Oct 18 01:20:28 <Disconnect> winrefund: when you can afford to start a wireless carrier, you can subsidize platforms that eat all your profits. until then.....
Oct 18 01:20:28 <f00f-> who's to say they will liberally use it?
Oct 18 01:20:33 <Disconnect> VickiWong: lol
Oct 18 01:20:53 <Disconnect> gbp is a great thing to earn anywhere these days
Oct 18 01:20:56 <VickiWong> f00f-: for many it's not the fear of it being used, just that it exists i think
Oct 18 01:20:58 <winrefund> Disconnect, I don't understand your comment
Oct 18 01:21:08 <f00f-> most consumers won't give a damn about it
Oct 18 01:21:37 <winrefund> f00f-, the "if" doesn't matter. The problem is that the power is in the hands of a 3rd party rather than the user
Oct 18 01:21:39 <Disconnect> winrefund: it exists to enforce the ToS (both marketplace and t-mob) - things like no voip and no trashing the network.
Oct 18 01:22:01 <VickiWong> f00f-: when trying Document doc = docBuilder.parse(new URL("http://blah.com/my.xml").openStream()); i am gettign unknown socket errors : \
Oct 18 01:22:02 <f00f-> yeah, if this was a truly open *phone* then i would expect something different
Oct 18 01:22:11 <f00f-> but keep in mind it's still an operator dominated and controlled market/phone
Oct 18 01:22:13 <VickiWong> docketexception errors *
Oct 18 01:22:36 <f00f-> i've no idea what that means
Oct 18 01:22:53 <VickiWong> socketexception error* god it's 9:22am and i cant type at all :(
Oct 18 01:23:01 <winrefund> Disconnect, the justification offered is not more important than the user's freedom
Oct 18 01:23:18 <Disconnect> winrefund: then clearly you aren't interested in android. nice talking to you, have a good one somewhere else..
Oct 18 01:23:45 <winrefund> I am interested in free software
Oct 18 01:23:52 <winrefund> and that's the problem
Oct 18 01:23:52 <Disconnect> and you think this isn't. cya!
Oct 18 01:24:03 * f00f- hugs all the free software liberals
Oct 18 01:24:27 <winrefund> Android is free software due to it's kernel and user space apps that are licensed under the APL but this kill switch seems to be at odds
Oct 18 01:24:27 <VickiWong> winrefund: it is free software, it's the carrier/hardware people who ask for this stuff
Oct 18 01:24:30 <winrefund> that's a problem
Oct 18 01:24:43 <Disconnect> besides, its apache licensed. isn't that (effectively) similar to bsd? it allows commercial spinoffs. oops. you should be in #handhelds or #maemo instead.
Oct 18 01:24:47 <winrefund> it's a contradiction
Oct 18 01:24:57 <winrefund> oh no
Oct 18 01:24:59 <f00f-> not really
Oct 18 01:25:18 <winrefund> did you just say "commerical" to describe "non free"?
Oct 18 01:25:23 <winrefund> please don't do that
Oct 18 01:25:38 <f00f-> they're building on *top* of the platform which doesn't require them to open source their efforts
Oct 18 01:26:07 <winrefund> f00f-, I'm pointing out that the kill switch is not in the spirit of free software
Oct 18 01:26:25 <winrefund> if you don't see that, then you don't understand what free software tries to accomplish
Oct 18 01:26:42 <Disconnect> ..you all realize he's just hear to troll, right? specializes in it in fact. one of these days he's gonna practice what he preaches by only subscribing to open-source power generation on fully open hardware (oops, no firmware, no bios, no FPGAs...) with fully open network equipment to a fully open internet.
Oct 18 01:26:55 <f00f-> it may be true winrefund, but i don't think t-mobile or htc care about free software
Oct 18 01:26:58 <f00f-> they're in it for the money
Oct 18 01:26:59 <Disconnect> winrefund: you pointed it out repeatly. what you aren't hearing is nobody here cares.
Oct 18 01:27:02 <f00f-> if OSS helps, that's great
Oct 18 01:27:28 <f00f-> mmm this is some good stew
Oct 18 01:27:29 <winrefund> ok, nobody cares
Oct 18 01:27:31 <f00f-> although it's a bit dry
Oct 18 01:27:31 <JoeAFK> in perspective, I think the carriers chances of wiretapping you are probably greater than their chances of killing an application that you're running :P
Oct 18 01:27:32 <winrefund> that's one thing
Oct 18 01:27:45 <Disconnect> it would be, quite literally, illegal for the officers of any of the aforementioned companies to do something because its right rather than because it benefits the company and stockholders.
Oct 18 01:27:57 <f00f-> umm you people do realize that kill switch is only applicable to android market apps right?
Oct 18 01:28:08 <winrefund> if you don't care about your freedom, that's your choice but don't start trying to dismiss me when I point out the contradiction
Oct 18 01:28:40 <JoeAFK> I'm sure this isn't the only nor biggest contradiction to point out
Oct 18 01:28:41 <xavd> winrefund: your freedom is to not use Android if you don't like it?
Oct 18 01:28:45 <Disconnect> winrefund: you pointed it out this afternoon. you aren't buying a device, you aren't developing for a device, you aren't saying anything new, you aren't listening. that is the -classic- example of a troll.
Oct 18 01:28:56 <winrefund> xavd, I'm talking about freedoms 0-3
Oct 18 01:29:08 <winrefund> not the millions of other freedoms that can be discussed
Oct 18 01:29:15 <xavd> 0-3?
Oct 18 01:29:19 <winrefund> yea
Oct 18 01:29:30 * Disconnect is gonna go back to coding. if you stop pissing in winrefund's mouth he'll eventually get bored and leave.
Oct 18 01:29:40 <winrefund> read about them before attempting to add your $0.2 xavd
Oct 18 01:29:44 <winrefund> sorry
Oct 18 01:29:46 <winrefund> 0.02
Oct 18 01:30:23 <JoeAFK> trolls be rampant!
Oct 18 01:30:24 * JoeAFK runs away
Oct 18 01:30:54 <f00f-> let's get along
Oct 18 01:30:56 <winrefund> Disconnect, take your ignorant attitude and shove it buddy. All you needed to say was "I don't care" instead of trying to make your ridiculous point
Oct 18 01:33:56 <gambler> <f00f-> umm you people do realize that kill switch is only applicable to android market apps right?
Oct 18 01:34:10 <f00f-> what's going on gambler
Oct 18 01:34:12 <gambler> does this mean it's possible for regular users to turn off the kill switch?
Oct 18 01:34:25 <f00f-> gambler: download an .apk from my site directly
Oct 18 01:34:28 <f00f-> how does a kill switch apply
Oct 18 01:34:34 <f00f-> unless they track .apk signatures, etc.
Oct 18 01:34:36 <f00f-> and have a blacklist
Oct 18 01:34:49 <f00f-> kind of like a CRL in X.509
Oct 18 01:35:00 <f00f-> but lots of ways around that, too
Oct 18 01:35:03 <gambler> right or OCSP ... just wondering how the kill switch works
Oct 18 01:36:35 <JoeAFK> I tend to feel that maybe I'm the only one that sees the kill switch as a feature?
Oct 18 01:36:47 <f00f-> joe it is a feature
Oct 18 01:36:52 <winrefund> no it is not
Oct 18 01:36:52 <f00f-> intended to protect consumers #1
Oct 18 01:36:56 <JoeAFK> Make someone with a reputation to lose do the tedious work for me...
Oct 18 01:37:04 <winrefund> the user should have that power
Oct 18 01:37:06 <f00f-> but as baggage, operators can control apps based on their internal agenda too :)
Oct 18 01:37:07 <winrefund> not a 3rd party
Oct 18 01:37:09 <f00f-> so it's a mixed bag of tricks :D
Oct 18 01:37:19 <gambler> yeah I agree its a feature for unsophisticated consumers.
Oct 18 01:37:20 <JoeAFK> The user has the power to kill tasks does he not? :)
Oct 18 01:37:36 <winrefund> does the user have the power to kill the kill switch?
Oct 18 01:37:37 <winrefund> no
Oct 18 01:37:43 <JoeAFK> unsophisticated ... or people that dont have time to research or keep up with malicious Android app list
Oct 18 01:37:49 <winrefund> so the user does not have control over the phone
Oct 18 01:37:51 <f00f-> we do NOT know enough about it to make judgements at this point
Oct 18 01:38:16 <f00f-> as jasta would say, you are an ignorant fool to judge the feature based on the limited amount of information available about it
Oct 18 01:39:22 <gambler> part of my app is designed to make ppl at the telco rip their hair out, so thats my slight worry
Oct 18 01:39:40 <JoeAFK> lol
Oct 18 01:40:33 <Disconnect> is there a simple way to get the dialpad to pop up for numeric-field input in portrait mode?
Oct 18 01:41:06 <JoeAFK> The Google Marketplace thingo is not carrier-specific though right? (besides the fact for now there's only 1 carrier that its locked to)
Oct 18 01:41:07 <f00f-> presss green call button and hit dialer
Oct 18 01:41:15 <Disconnect> i mean for application input
Oct 18 01:41:35 <Disconnect> to feed a numeric edittext
Oct 18 01:41:39 <f00f-> not sure if it has an intent that'll return
Oct 18 01:42:46 <gdsx> Disconnect: 1.0 doesn't have a framework for adding input methods.  It's in the pipeline
Oct 18 01:44:06 <Disconnect> hmm. anyone know if a simple 0-9 . and backspace has been written yet? :) if not i'll have to do it (suck) but i'll publish it. too useful to keep :)
Oct 18 01:44:37 <gdsx> anyway, /me is off
Oct 18 01:45:30 <Disconnect> cya
Oct 18 01:47:30 <Disconnect> anyone got the url for the java layout builder? eclipse is not agreeing with me today..
Oct 18 01:47:37 <f00f-> umm
Oct 18 01:47:48 * Disconnect bookmarked it but can't find it now :(
Oct 18 01:47:48 <f00f-> the piece of shit drag and drop garbage?
Oct 18 01:47:58 <xavd> http://droiddraw.org/
Oct 18 01:48:14 <xavd> what's the problem with eclipse?
Oct 18 01:48:22 <Disconnect> wow seems like half of everyone is super-negative today. weird.
Oct 18 01:48:35 <JoeAFK> angry their G1s havent come yet
Oct 18 01:48:39 <f00f-> wasted lots of time with droiddraw
Oct 18 01:48:41 <Disconnect> xavd: typing on the xml side results in it taking >2 gigs of ram and swapping the hell out of my mbp.
Oct 18 01:48:44 <f00f-> better do the XML layhout yourself
Oct 18 01:48:45 <f00f-> trust me
Oct 18 01:48:55 <xavd> Disconnect: :(
Oct 18 01:49:00 <f00f-> don't use the xml editor, just the plain text editor
Oct 18 01:49:03 <xavd> how big is your XML?
Oct 18 01:49:11 <Disconnect> under 30 lines. 5-6 items.
Oct 18 01:49:14 <Disconnect> (so far)
Oct 18 01:49:34 <xavd> have you done a lot of modification since you opened the editor, or does it happen right away?
Oct 18 01:50:16 <Disconnect> goes either way. after errors or if i partially type a tag and wander off (eg to do source editing) and come back that seems to make it more likely. but overall its kind of "how can you not see this" more than it is "i found a bad use-case" :/
Oct 18 01:51:33 <xavd> what version/distrib of Eclipse? I'll try to repro on my mbp
Oct 18 01:52:42 <Disconnect> Build id: 1.6.1.v20080919-1135 .. 3.4.1, lemme look @ the web page again and see which ver it is. (unless i'm missing it in the about box)
Oct 18 01:52:58 <jasta> f00f-: as jasta would say? :)
Oct 18 01:53:19 <f00f-> i know you used that line once :P
Oct 18 01:53:23 <f00f-> i felt it was appropriate
Oct 18 01:53:37 <jasta> well, sure.
Oct 18 01:53:48 <xavd> Disconnect: what's th title of the about box? mine says Eclipse SDK cause I downloaded the SDK version. There are so many packages that I want to be sure I try with the same plugins on
Oct 18 01:53:56 <Disconnect> ah eclipse platform
Oct 18 01:53:57 <jasta> i am so f'ing excited for Wed :)
Oct 18 01:54:08 <f00f-> yeah :D
Oct 18 01:54:11 <Disconnect> jasta: i'm aiming for monday (i'm hoping for tomorrow but..)
Oct 18 01:54:17 <Disconnect> latest tues it'll be here, so..
Oct 18 01:54:26 <f00f-> i called my t-mo rep, they said they would ship out on wednesday and get to me on friday
Oct 18 01:54:29 <f00f-> let's see if it happens
Oct 18 01:54:32 <Disconnect> cool
Oct 18 01:56:36 <Disconnect> xavd: its not 100% reproducible yet (as in i have no map for you) but it is fairly frequent. basically working between the gui(ish) and xml views in layout causes it to get very upset. then it starts thrashing swap and if i get lucky i can save and quit before it gets too bad..
Oct 18 01:57:05 <xavd> ok
Oct 18 01:57:53 <Disconnect> i know it seems more frequent with lots of typos/errors are entered and then fixed (maybe related to trying to render them? i flip back and forth fairly frequently, and half the objects are added from the toolbar and half by hand) but its -really- small layouts
Oct 18 01:58:30 <Disconnect> most recently it was a simple nested linear with 4 textviews (basic "foo: bar" "baz: bam" row)
Oct 18 01:58:39 <xavd> it shouldn't try to render until you switch back to the layout page
Oct 18 01:58:49 <languish> I wonder if someone's going to start a service helping devs customize their UI to look more "androidish" and standardized (to give a consistent experience to users)
Oct 18 01:58:51 <xavd> it may have to do with the content assist in the xml page
Oct 18 01:59:21 <Disconnect> fwiw autocomplete has failed me completely on that page today. not sure why. it pops nothingness
Oct 18 01:59:43 <xavd> hmm I'm thinking there is something there.
Oct 18 01:59:47 <Disconnect> ....ok i lied. annoying. its back now :)
Oct 18 01:59:55 <xavd> hmm
Oct 18 02:00:20 <Disconnect> it was popping the # default namespace (etc) even after "android:layout_" (you can see it with "android:{ctrl-space}")
Oct 18 02:00:21 <jasta> f00f-: i'm planning to get one Wed morning if all goes well
Oct 18 02:00:28 <xavd> the content assist "framework" in Eclipse is not exactly great. Lots of hacks to make it work :(
Oct 18 02:00:30 <jasta> if not, as i said earlier, i will burn that mother down
Oct 18 02:00:34 * Disconnect last tried it a couple restarts ago
Oct 18 02:00:39 <f00f-> <3
Oct 18 02:00:43 <f00f-> do you have more than one store on your list?
Oct 18 02:00:49 <f00f-> i'm sure you could drive to bellevue
Oct 18 02:00:54 <jasta> well, not yet, but im gonna calla round to check availability
Oct 18 02:00:55 <f00f-> there's a store right by the t-mo campus
Oct 18 02:01:08 <f00f-> and this great sushi place there too
Oct 18 02:01:18 <f00f-> (the only thing i know about bellevue) :D
Oct 18 02:01:20 <Disconnect> awesome combo
Oct 18 02:01:33 <Disconnect> esp if hte sushi place has exposed plugs for charging your new phone while eating sushi :)
Oct 18 02:01:44 <languish> jasta, just make contact with store managers
Oct 18 02:01:47 <languish> before wed
Oct 18 02:02:00 <languish> pass 'em a $20 to hold a g1 for you
Oct 18 02:02:14 <Disconnect> anyone know if tmob stores will have the stupid headset adaptors this week? i don't remember if tmob had any htc phones before this. (hmm. at&t did didn't they?)
Oct 18 02:02:16 <Disconnect> heh
Oct 18 02:02:32 <languish> well, a $20 might be too cheap
Oct 18 02:02:52 <f00f-> dude, just wait it out
Oct 18 02:03:02 <f00f-> give it a day or two
Oct 18 02:03:13 <f00f-> i seriously doubt there'll be a rush
Oct 18 02:03:27 <f00f-> perception is still that t-mobile sucks.
Oct 18 02:03:43 <languish> I'm thinking a push, to have tmo give g1 pre- order owners a usbext adaptor free, is in order
Oct 18 02:03:59 <languish> f00f-, perception is sometimes correct
Oct 18 02:04:10 <Disconnect> xavd: when it blows up again, anything in particular you want me to do? (bearing in mind that my laptop will be swapping hard. and if i wait too long/do too much it'll start eating my disk with swapfiles :( ..)
Oct 18 02:04:16 <languish> as long as dotson runs tmo usa, it always will
Oct 18 02:04:27 <languish> +be
Oct 18 02:04:51 <xavd> Disconnect: not really, I'm playing with it now and the content assist is having serious issues :(
Oct 18 02:04:52 <f00f-> heh
Oct 18 02:05:02 <Disconnect> fair enough
Oct 18 02:05:20 <xavd> *sigh*
Oct 18 02:05:40 * Disconnect was planning to build views to help solidify the objects.. but it looks like it'll have to be written the other way round (yes, i know objects first is more correct anyway :) ..)
Oct 18 02:05:50 <languish>  <f00f-> i seriously doubt there'll be a rush
Oct 18 02:06:10 <languish> seriously, most people I know, have no clue what android/htc or the G1 are
Oct 18 02:06:52 <Disconnect> languish: but don't you know? a cell company with 10mil or so customers sold a whopping 1.5 million of them in 3 days!
Oct 18 02:07:02 * Disconnect knows that # is bullshit, don't bother, its a joke :)
Oct 18 02:07:02 <languish> most news agencies are just treating it like a sideline note "oh yeah, this exists"  along the lines of "you should just be aware of this name, in case your kids mention it"
Oct 18 02:07:16 <f00f-> it's great press for them
Oct 18 02:07:17 <Disconnect> i was surprised that the sis-in-law wanted one. she's not tmob tho
Oct 18 02:07:19 <f00f-> it's a very smart move on their part
Oct 18 02:07:32 <f00f-> but with no press release from t-mobile we can't really be sure
Oct 18 02:07:47 <languish> yeah, someone did say tmo denied the numbers
Oct 18 02:08:01 <languish> forgot where I was reading
Oct 18 02:08:14 <languish> but they claimed it didn't even come close
Oct 18 02:08:30 <languish> to actual sales that is.  They may have ordered that many phones for the future
Oct 18 02:08:38 <Disconnect> info week (iirc) debunked it finally. http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-pre-order-numbers-way-too-astronomical/ has the quotes.
Oct 18 02:09:21 <languish> anyone see the pics of boygenius at the tmo g1 launch party lastnight?
Oct 18 02:09:33 <Disconnect> no
Oct 18 02:09:34 <languish> dude walks around like he's a celeb in hiding
Oct 18 02:09:38 <Disconnect> lol funny
Oct 18 02:10:17 <gambler> does he do the vince mcmahon power walk? that rocks
Oct 18 02:11:19 <f00f-> hah
Oct 18 02:12:07 <languish> http://androidcommunity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=900&stc=1&d=1224216598
Oct 18 02:12:08 <languish> there
Oct 18 02:18:36 <Disconnect> yah i can't get the stupid activation email resent so i can't see any of that stuff
Oct 18 02:18:42 <Disconnect> mailing admins doesn't help
Oct 18 02:18:47 <Disconnect> pita
Oct 18 02:19:49 <Disconnect> and random side note, i found exactly what i was looking for earlier :) http://www.droiddraw.org/widgetguide.html
Oct 18 02:36:46 * gdsx wonders why it's so hard for some people to take a non-sucky photo of the G1
Oct 18 02:44:39 <Dougie187> man noones around anymore.
Oct 18 02:47:33 <HappyFunBall> I had 2 lunarlander samples on my emulator, and used "adb uninstall com.example.android.lunarlander" to get rid of one.  The other's still there but I dont know its name. How can I list packages to pick one to remove?
Oct 18 02:48:30 <Disconnect> anyone know if you can tell the eclipse layout renderererer to rotate?
Oct 18 02:48:48 <Dougie187> i hate crank nicolson
Oct 18 02:49:10 <Disconnect> oh. duh. nevermind. dropdown top-right. :)
Oct 18 02:50:11 <Disconnect> but if anyone is hacking on it, it'd be nice if it produced clean line-broken code
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 18 02:59:56 2008