**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 19 02:59:56 2008 Oct 19 03:00:04 which one is your fav? Oct 19 03:00:05 my favorite is probably Mega Man X1 for the SNES Oct 19 03:00:15 hell yeah Oct 19 03:00:17 that one rocks Oct 19 03:00:19 i love the X's Oct 19 03:00:24 but there is one i have played most recently that is really great Oct 19 03:00:28 i cant remember which one it was tho Oct 19 03:00:32 its on my PS2 upstairs :) Oct 19 03:00:36 2 and 3 are good as well Oct 19 03:00:42 i have all of them on my xbox. heh Oct 19 03:00:42 X2/3 or regular 2/3? Oct 19 03:00:48 regular 2 and 3 Oct 19 03:00:51 i like X1 2 and 3 Oct 19 03:00:57 but regular 2 and 3 are good as well Oct 19 03:01:07 i hear 9 is pretty good as well Oct 19 03:01:11 but i haven't tried it yet Oct 19 03:01:39 heh Oct 19 03:01:41 i basically only play it when i smoke tho, and i havent smoked in a _long_ time Oct 19 03:02:00 heh, i don't smoke. Oct 19 03:02:04 the issue is really that Mega Man is too easy an adult when you're sober Oct 19 03:02:06 i play when i get bored though Oct 19 03:02:17 but its fun... to get everything at least. Oct 19 03:02:17 so i like to scale back my reaction time to when i was 7 or 8 :) Oct 19 03:02:19 but it is very easy Oct 19 03:02:23 it takes like 2 hours to be X1 Oct 19 03:02:35 jasta: heh Oct 19 03:02:49 beat* Oct 19 03:03:58 do you create your own ActivityName? Oct 19 03:04:51 After_Math: dude, you can figure this out with just the docs. i promise you. Oct 19 03:05:10 ok then I will say yes :) Oct 19 03:07:13 smoking is bad Oct 19 03:07:18 lol Oct 19 03:09:22 wastrel: what kind of smoking? Oct 19 03:09:54 lol yes it is Oct 19 03:10:12 how can I check ants compiler error output log? Oct 19 03:10:16 or where are they located? Oct 19 03:12:44 uhm, just read stdout Oct 19 03:12:50 it should tell you. Oct 19 03:12:53 lol Oct 19 03:13:48 lol Oct 19 03:13:53 jasta: you like the videos? Oct 19 03:13:58 I dont understand it Oct 19 03:14:15 Dougie187: havent looked just yet Oct 19 03:14:17 i will in a sec Oct 19 03:14:26 After_Math: dude, you need to be in #java Oct 19 03:14:27 ok, it will probably take like 10-20 minutes to download. Oct 19 03:14:49 k Oct 19 03:23:54 im out guys. Oct 19 03:23:55 see ya Oct 19 03:38:46 what the fuck, i still seem to be having that issue where pressing back to go to a previous activity in my app doesn't preserve the lists position Oct 19 03:38:56 what the fuck is with that. do you need to use ListActivity to get that behaviour or some crap? Oct 19 03:39:48 I have having the same issue but I am using a ListActivity. Oct 19 03:40:02 I assumed that I would have to deal with it manually. Oct 19 03:40:09 but have not gotten that far. Oct 19 03:40:18 Are you using an Adaptor? Oct 19 03:40:56 yes, i dont get it either. i've asked romain about this a while ago and he claims "it just works" Oct 19 03:41:06 and that his evidence of this is that the ApiDemos app has this behaviour Oct 19 03:41:18 but for some reason i dont get it in any of my activities... or at least not consistently Oct 19 03:41:21 i dont understand Oct 19 03:41:27 it destroys usability, so i have to figure it out Oct 19 03:41:41 are you filling the adapter in oncreate, or another part of the lifecycle? Oct 19 03:41:59 another part of the lifecycle, now that you mention it. Oct 19 03:42:06 and that might be the issue Oct 19 03:42:09 Usually I have to send a notifyDataSetChanged so I thought I would have to manage the selection. Oct 19 03:42:12 yeah it just occurred to me Oct 19 03:42:27 umdk1d3: im gonna check 0.9r1 source to see how this magic works Oct 19 03:42:31 it might destroy it far enough 1/2 the time to need to recreate that datasource Oct 19 03:42:56 and the magic "restoring list posiotion" that romain talked about might happen /before/ the list gets populated Oct 19 03:43:01 when the activity comes back to foreground Oct 19 03:43:10 in those random cases Oct 19 03:43:23 i meant "some of the time" as in some of my activities do this Oct 19 03:43:24 others do not Oct 19 03:43:27 and i think you are right Oct 19 03:43:42 its the activities where i defer setContentView Oct 19 03:43:58 so perhaps for that usage i do need to manage this myself Oct 19 03:44:14 but i want to figure out how ListView handles this normally, so i can tap into whatever its doing Oct 19 03:44:57 ListView.SavedState, i bet that's got somethin to do with it ;P Oct 19 03:45:27 oh actually it probably doesnt. Oct 19 03:47:54 ahh, AbsListView.SavedState is relevant ;) Oct 19 03:50:32 hmm, this could be very tricky. Oct 19 03:51:02 apparently deferring setContentView like this isn't a great strategy. perhaps i should just setContentView early but hide it all Oct 19 03:52:26 sweeeet Oct 19 03:52:36 I can do it now :) Oct 19 03:52:37 woohoo Oct 19 03:53:00 no thanks to jasta ;) Oct 19 03:54:22 public Parcelable onSaveInstanceState() seems to work pretty well for me. Oct 19 03:55:07 dmoffett: well that is what's supposed to be doing it for the ListView Oct 19 03:55:27 so somehow with my usage (deferred setContentView i bet) it's not working properly Oct 19 03:56:06 Hmmm... I am keeping and setting the Parcelable using the onRestoreInstanceState. Oct 19 03:56:16 I could be way off though. Just trying it out now. Oct 19 03:56:30 seems to work but without a lot of testing. Oct 19 03:56:40 you mean your list state? but what is your usage of ListView? Oct 19 03:57:16 i think how we're setting the adapter or when we're posting the ListView is the issue. i'm checking when onRestoreInstanceState is called right now Oct 19 03:57:45 Basically I fill the list from a custom adaptor and usually edit the list in another activity and return. Oct 19 03:58:07 oh i think i know what my issue is actually Oct 19 03:58:23 Prior to using the methods the list just went back the initial state. Oct 19 03:58:26 Cool Oct 19 03:58:30 so i saw some mailing list postings from a while back that said that Android itself is not opensource (yet)? is this still the case? Oct 19 03:58:42 in onStop(), i am calling setContentView(new View(this)) just as a dummy way to unset. i need to rework how i'm managing this. Oct 19 03:58:52 theCarpenter: yes Oct 19 03:59:07 Apparently the source will be release after the phone. Oct 19 03:59:15 at Google discretiion. Oct 19 04:01:05 Understood. If not the whole platform, have any subcomponents of the platform been yet? I'm wondering about the package manager in particular. Oct 19 04:01:07 theCarpenter == Jesus? Oct 19 04:01:40 no idea. Oct 19 04:01:43 theCarpenter: no, nothing. Oct 19 04:01:52 (Except the kernel *grin*) Oct 19 04:01:54 Guess I would want to know if I were talking to God. Oct 19 04:02:01 his 2nd coming was in #android? wow Oct 19 04:02:08 dmoffett: Well, i do have a thing for wine... Oct 19 04:04:08 Wait, the kernel sources have been released? Oct 19 04:04:29 oh Oct 19 04:05:07 yes, they would have to be. otherwise it would be a gpl violation Oct 19 04:07:04 theCarpenter: I don't know if they have been already, but they will be Oct 19 04:07:10 theCarpenter: Market will not be open-sourced Oct 19 04:07:41 theCarpenter: there's stuff on the device that actually installs the .apk packages, and I believe that will be, though Oct 19 04:07:48 (not specifically sure what you mean by "package manager") Oct 19 04:09:34 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/pm/PackageManager.html Oct 19 04:10:01 I believe that's the interface to it Oct 19 04:11:06 theCarpenter: oh, I believe that will be open-sourced Oct 19 04:11:26 I wanted to hook into the package manager directly, but i suppose my particular application will have to wait Oct 19 04:26:51 What's an application token? http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/Manifest.permission.html#MANAGE_APP_TOKENS Oct 19 04:27:14 if i kill an app token in the window manager, will it kill the app entirely, or just kill its window? Oct 19 04:50:06 Is there any way for one application to restart another currently running application? Oct 19 04:50:12 or shutdown? Oct 19 04:50:51 you can only request intents Oct 19 04:52:40 theCarpenter: can you give us a hint as to what youre trying to accomplish? it may be redundant or unnecessary on android Oct 19 04:53:01 Parental monitoring and package installation monitoring. Oct 19 04:53:11 ahh Oct 19 04:53:17 well, yeah, you are not going to get far with that Oct 19 04:53:27 in fact, for the love of god do not buy your child an android phone :) Oct 19 04:53:32 lol Oct 19 04:53:39 hah Oct 19 04:53:41 htc would not like to hear that Oct 19 04:53:43 heh Oct 19 04:54:07 So there's no way to hook into the package manager at all to white or blacklist apps? Oct 19 04:54:13 theCarpenter: once you have source, your best bet is almost certainly going to be creating your own "parental" firmware Oct 19 04:54:19 that lets your app become part of the system Oct 19 04:54:27 and thus unremovable and much more overarching for the system Oct 19 04:54:50 Jesus would approve. Oct 19 04:54:56 Well I'm unmarried and childless, but I do thank you for the advice ;) Oct 19 04:55:01 theCarpenter: probably not, but the bigger point is that Android is one of (if not the) most flexible platforms out there Oct 19 04:55:04 theCarpenter, arent you worried about the kid surfing to evil websites? Oct 19 04:55:07 until your kid flashes the phone with their own fake-parental firmware Oct 19 04:55:08 giving that to a child is a _REALLY_ terrible idea Oct 19 04:55:31 i thought children were the primary users of new phones? seriously. last weekend i was in bestbuy and i was the only one over 15 looking at phones. Oct 19 04:55:34 you couldn't possibly blacklist every app you dont want them to have Oct 19 04:55:44 teens are the major revenue Oct 19 04:55:50 and they will surely be clever enough to work around the thin layer you provide for them (again, Android is really flexible and is not meant to be inhibited in any way) Oct 19 04:55:55 what about the good apps, like the ones that let you know where they are in case they get kidnapped? Oct 19 04:56:08 taaz, most adults knwo best buy is a ripoff and find better deals elsewhere. Oct 19 04:56:17 :| Oct 19 04:56:21 gambler: what about the bad ones, like that let you broadcast your location to strangers on facebook? :) Oct 19 04:56:46 the power is with the users.. Oct 19 04:56:46 theCarpenter: my advice to you is to wait until source code comes out to see what you can accomplish, and to think _WAY_ beyond managing what can and cannot be installed. Oct 19 04:56:58 hmmm, well I plan on having boys instead of girls :p Oct 19 04:56:58 muthu: right, which is why you don't give it to small children Oct 19 04:57:07 Let me clarify a few things: 1) I don't have kids of my own Oct 19 04:57:08 jasta, teenage girls lay on beaches with their phone numbers zinc-oxided on their backs.. .you really think pervs need to go out of their way to find them? Oct 19 04:57:13 yeah, but they are the one who want them badly Oct 19 04:57:24 languish: lol Oct 19 04:57:30 2) I think there might be a market for something like this especially if the Android GamePhone or KidPhone or something is released down the rode Oct 19 04:57:32 *road Oct 19 04:57:43 languish: maybe. but at least you can check out the size and feel of the fake phones. i was just asking if they would have the g1 but apparently don't even carry contract t-mobile stuff. Oct 19 04:57:51 whatever, i give up Oct 19 04:57:53 3) I recognize that it's difficult to get really comprehensive coverage, but you have to start somewhere Oct 19 04:58:17 theCarpenter: you can't start without the source, i'm telling you that right now ;) Oct 19 04:58:29 And by comprehensive coverage, i mean it's difficult to 100% childproof something like Android Oct 19 04:58:33 you will almost certainly need a custom firmware Oct 19 04:58:35 to do anything useful at all Oct 19 04:58:36 your app has 0 control over other apps Oct 19 04:58:52 and even then, i dont recommend you target android for this type of thing Oct 19 04:59:16 besides, kids can jailbreak anything you can make Oct 19 04:59:16 again, android is _VERY_ powerful. you don't want to give children that power under the guise of your pathetically trivial parental controls Oct 19 04:59:44 if you were going to tackle a project like this, it would be _huge_ and would need to be a very elaborate custom firmware Oct 19 04:59:59 in addition.. Oct 19 05:00:10 you'd need a deal with the carrier Oct 19 05:00:16 yes ;) Oct 19 05:00:43 So there would be absolutely no way to create an android software application that allows even partial coverage? Oct 19 05:00:44 how about a WWJD app instead... Oct 19 05:00:58 "Dear Jesus, should I use a condom?" - Jesus: No, Abstain. Oct 19 05:01:07 theCarpenter: yes, there would be, but it would be a lot of work and would be at a level you dont have access to now (firmware + source) Oct 19 05:01:09 Even like say, having a whitelist for apps or something Oct 19 05:01:23 oh man, a magic WWJD 8-ball app Oct 19 05:01:25 jasta: Understood, and as you said, the sources for the package manager aren't available yet... Oct 19 05:01:25 lawl Oct 19 05:01:45 theCarpenter: so wait for them. do not pursue this project until you have a broader picture. Oct 19 05:01:59 you will fail and it will be really hard to admit that i was totally right :) Oct 19 05:02:02 you don't want that Oct 19 05:02:11 Understood :) Oct 19 05:02:33 btw, Disney has a kid phone. it really sucks (and that's the point) Oct 19 05:02:46 "Jesus, should I allow this man to touch me?" (shake G1) Result: My palms itch, ask again later Oct 19 05:02:57 your job would be to take android and make it really suck. there's a lot of cool there :) Oct 19 05:03:32 any news on market? Oct 19 05:03:35 G1? Oct 19 05:03:37 In the meantime, is there anything I can at least play around with as far as monitoring anything? Even something like, say, detecting whether a particular application has or has not yet been installed and simply popping up a dialogue box if it has. Oct 19 05:03:45 muthu yes "it's coming" Oct 19 05:03:47 :| Oct 19 05:03:51 For my own curiosity purposes say :) Oct 19 05:03:54 :|| Oct 19 05:04:01 you go ahead and waste all the time you want theCarpenter. Oct 19 05:04:06 jasta: do you do anything in five to handle long artist or title names? Oct 19 05:04:14 taaz: such as? Oct 19 05:04:45 woot time Oct 19 05:04:51 something to make it look better Oct 19 05:04:53 most of the interface just makes TextViews that are bounded either single line or double line. other than that, i dont know what you mean. Oct 19 05:05:25 but i try to keep that to a minimum, especially for song titles. people like to read their song titles. Oct 19 05:05:33 esp since the really long ones tend to be funny to them Oct 19 05:05:40 jasta: You're great X-D... okay then, let me ask this. Lets set aside the parental monitoring thing for a second. Oct 19 05:06:14 The PackageManager class: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/pm/PackageManager.html Will that at least let me *detect* if a particular application is installed at a given point in time? Oct 19 05:06:35 well... i was thinking of a widget that truncated and added "..." or whatever. maybe even did title scrolling. i dunno. Oct 19 05:06:47 taaz: uhh, TextView does that now Oct 19 05:06:59 it does? i must be using it wrong. Oct 19 05:07:03 In other words, is an application at least allowed to check for the existence of another application? I'm seeing permissions for viewing other packages' size; what about an existence check? Oct 19 05:07:03 set android:singleLine=true and stare in awe. Oct 19 05:07:58 theCarpenter: well sure, look at the interface. Oct 19 05:08:49 wait. oyg! theCarpenter - a reference to....*gasp* jesus? Oct 19 05:09:12 jasta: no, you have to add android:ellipsize="end" Oct 19 05:09:24 languish: As I said before, I do have a thing for Wine... ;) Oct 19 05:09:26 (and use singleLine) Oct 19 05:09:39 theCarpenter as in, you like to? Oct 19 05:09:42 :\ Oct 19 05:10:13 romainguy: really, because i get that effect on all my TextViews in 1.0 and i didnt do anything. Oct 19 05:10:23 perhaps the textAppearanceMedium/Large styles include ellipsize Oct 19 05:10:52 stop trying to make lockdown apps for android, it's the antithesis of "open", even if a buncha wackadoodle right wingers will pay you for the illusion of security Oct 19 05:11:24 I dont understand the Location Provider concept. Oct 19 05:11:24 It seems like there should be a single class that uses the best heuristics it can manage to get a location fix. Oct 19 05:11:34 languish: Damn, FOSS fanatic much? Oct 19 05:11:39 romainguy: hey i have a question if you have a second. i realized my deferred setContentView approach had a pretty big flaw in that ListView positions weren't preserved between onStop/onRestart Oct 19 05:11:41 textview has some nice features.. ellipsize, linkify et al Oct 19 05:12:02 theCarpenter, only in the face of mediocraty Oct 19 05:12:02 so i started reworking this pattern i use to setContentView only once, then hide/show getWindow().getDecorView() when i need them Oct 19 05:12:31 romainguy: but there is a very slight delay between when the UI is shown to when my player state is shown on it. Oct 19 05:13:29 do you know what might be causing this? i'm basically invoking getDecorView().setVisibility(View.VISIBLE); ViewSwitcher#showNext(); Oct 19 05:13:43 but what seems to happen is an immediate draw with the viewswitcher on the old view, then very quickly updates to show it switched Oct 19 05:14:50 changing the visibility of the decor view seems like a bad idea to me Oct 19 05:14:58 the framework relies on decor view Oct 19 05:14:59 yeah me too Oct 19 05:15:07 and it might make assumptions about its visibility Oct 19 05:15:32 do you have any other suggestion for how i might tidy this drawing? Oct 19 05:15:44 i don't want my UI to present to the user then suddenly flip to display the service's state. Oct 19 05:16:08 i thought i had a clean solution for this but my solution has other bad problems so i scrapped it Oct 19 05:16:41 i can show you the code if you think that would be helpful Oct 19 05:19:24 actually, reviewing my own code i think this could be a logic error Oct 19 05:19:24 jasta, romainguy: thanks. that worked well. Oct 19 05:19:56 taaz: yeah i was pleased when i just updated my project and that effect was taken care of :) Oct 19 05:20:39 sigh, nope, that logic bug was related to something else. Oct 19 05:21:48 romainguy: i actually thought that the decor view was simply the top-most view that i give in setContentView tho Oct 19 05:26:49 so, my view to control however i want. is that not true? Oct 19 05:30:44 romainguy: is there a way for an app to get root privs? (double-checking before I respond to the port email) Oct 19 05:31:57 I/global ( 304): INFO: Default buffer size used in BufferedReader constructor. It would be better to be explicit if a 8k-char buffer is required. Oct 19 05:32:06 that keeps showing up in logcat Oct 19 05:32:10 muthu: so, specify a buffer size. Oct 19 05:32:30 they're warning you that an 8k buffer might be a big high for a mobile device, but that is the default harmony is using. Oct 19 05:32:42 hmm Oct 19 05:32:58 you probably want a smaller buffer size, like 1 or 2k, depending on what you're doing. Oct 19 05:33:28 is that the internal views using it? Oct 19 05:33:48 it says 'global' Oct 19 05:33:55 it came from harmony, i'm sure. Oct 19 05:34:09 yeah, but the system uses it that way Oct 19 05:34:37 what are you babbling about? Oct 19 05:35:12 i'm not using a BufferedReader anywhere Oct 19 05:35:18 somebody is. Oct 19 05:35:28 if you're sure it's not you, then ignore it Oct 19 05:35:29 yeah, that somebody happens to be android Oct 19 05:35:40 tho i have never seen that message anywhere except my own usage Oct 19 05:37:21 romainguy: whoops. my assumption was incorrect, thanks for the tip. my top-level view is the first child of the decor view. any recommendation for locating that? obviously getChildAt(0) is not a good idea. Oct 19 05:38:15 this solution i have is an abstraction, so it's not really workable to just give an id to my top-level view in setContentView Oct 19 05:41:45 you can get it by 'id' Oct 19 05:41:52 sry, by tag Oct 19 05:42:55 how would i tag it without being able to locate it? :) Oct 19 05:51:26 tag then when creating the views Oct 19 05:51:33 *them Oct 19 05:51:39 i'm not creating them. setContentView is. Oct 19 06:04:51 ooh it says there are new photos Oct 19 06:06:32 new photos of what? Oct 19 06:06:52 photostream said that romainguy posted new stuff Oct 19 06:07:04 automagically? Oct 19 06:07:06 * umdk1d3 wonders how often it checks Oct 19 06:07:09 yep Oct 19 06:07:13 slick :) Oct 19 06:08:05 umdk1d3: the apparent feature set for Five is ramping up fast :) Oct 19 06:08:09 i got a lot done tonight Oct 19 06:08:14 oh cool :) Oct 19 06:08:28 working right now on the ability to do shuffled playback of an album/playlist/whatever Oct 19 06:08:54 ive been rewriting my backend ^.^ getting ready for who-knows-how-many-million people next week Oct 19 06:09:19 dude, this is not a good time to be _rewriting_ things Oct 19 06:09:24 lol :P Oct 19 06:09:28 are you mad? Oct 19 06:09:32 ive been neglecting it Oct 19 06:09:41 and its going really well actually Oct 19 06:09:49 * umdk1d3 is last minute guy Oct 19 06:10:21 whatever you say Oct 19 06:11:18 to launch it on market the first day would be v.cool Oct 19 06:11:26 i suppose now is not a good time to bog you down with the trivial details of my UI? :) Oct 19 06:11:33 yo never did tell me what apps were yours umdk1d3 Oct 19 06:11:46 DarkriftX: lol dont worry about it Oct 19 06:12:03 oh right, umdk1d3 thinks he's "stealthy" Oct 19 06:12:08 like no one knows who he is Oct 19 06:12:09 hehe Oct 19 06:12:10 lol Oct 19 06:12:11 :/ Oct 19 06:12:16 i bet i could do a simple google search and figure it out Oct 19 06:12:28 outside of this chan ive kept this nick pretty well isolated Oct 19 06:13:11 why do you think there is value in that btw? Oct 19 06:13:29 yeah didnt muthu post in the channel at one stage that he wanted to have your baby? Oct 19 06:13:40 wtf!? Oct 19 06:13:54 umdk1d3: hey, guess what, i found you with an i'm feeling lucky google search Oct 19 06:14:16 yea well, dont spread it in here :/ Oct 19 06:14:23 meh /me throws hands in air Oct 19 06:14:28 i just dont see what the value is. i won't, but i mean... Oct 19 06:14:37 lolza Oct 19 06:14:52 i intentionally connect my alias to my name so that i have a persistent identity Oct 19 06:15:15 i would prefer just being some random guy on irc tho Oct 19 06:15:56 are you afraid groupies will attack you in the super market? Oct 19 06:16:00 hehe Oct 19 06:16:42 i was only wondering because you made the comment about having authors links in file descriptions Oct 19 06:18:24 it will be very interesting to watch how the whole market thing pans out Oct 19 06:18:31 agreed Oct 19 06:18:44 its either going to be one, or dozens Oct 19 06:18:55 i'm even thinking of ways that Five can participate. i might put together a "demo" to put up there that connects to a copyright-free demo repository i host Oct 19 06:19:17 and then like a little button you push to say "i want to install it on my PC" and it tells you what to do Oct 19 06:19:20 jasta: there may be issues with linking to repo-like things from market-hosted apps Oct 19 06:19:31 jasta: just put it up as a regular app. ppl will pay Oct 19 06:19:36 umdk1d3: what? really? Oct 19 06:19:43 gambler: i'm not talking about a trial version Oct 19 06:19:58 yea, but i didnt say anything Oct 19 06:20:55 looks like market would have a lot of restrictions Oct 19 06:28:05 * unix_infidel wonders if the topic is UTC. Oct 19 06:29:00 or UTC -8 :-P Oct 19 06:43:28 I really hope there ends up being a method very soon to either have an alternate user profile on the g1, or a way to "image/save state" the g1 to SD. Oct 19 06:43:43 *microSD of course Oct 19 06:45:19 it would be excellent for testing apps, and if there's a problem, remove or revert back to previous saved state. and also, it would be great for having a "clean" profile/image without personal data like contacts.. for showing the G1 to others Oct 19 06:46:25 can you not sign in with different accounts? Oct 19 06:46:33 is there like a unit testing automation plugin for ADT that alows you to automaticlaly do user input and gestures? Oct 19 06:46:38 (like Xcode) Oct 19 06:47:59 muthu, you initialize the G1 with 1 gmail account. that doesn't change. You'd have to create a second gmail account (wasteful), and go through resetting and reinitializing the G1 to "switch accounts" as far as I know. Oct 19 06:48:27 that's an ugly and problematic method Oct 19 06:48:54 multi profile is turned on? Oct 19 06:49:04 no idea Oct 19 06:49:10 I'll knwo monday :/ Oct 19 06:49:22 ok, atleast if you can seamlessly switch between gmail accounts.. Oct 19 06:49:33 you can't as far as i know. Oct 19 06:49:38 hmm Oct 19 06:49:40 though I may be wrong Oct 19 06:49:55 heh, yea i'll likely end up buying it on friday. Oct 19 06:50:05 because by then virtuall every single question that we've come up with will be answered. Oct 19 06:50:06 friday? Oct 19 06:50:20 good luck finding one by friday Oct 19 06:50:37 they come out in the stores tuesday Oct 19 06:50:51 languish: i'm sure someone will verify that they have a 2GB cap by then. Oct 19 06:51:11 unix_infidel, the cap issue has been addressed Oct 19 06:51:38 it's a 10GB cap so long as it's not excessive use 24/7 in a short period Oct 19 06:51:39 languish: they are a carrier, they should be able to reinstitute whatever they want. Oct 19 06:52:02 link to 10GB? Oct 19 06:52:14 after the 10GB cap, they drop you down to around 50kbps Oct 19 06:52:45 unix_infidel, it's been posted on the t-mobile forums for android by t-mobile employees Oct 19 06:52:59 meh, i'll wait till friday. Oct 19 06:53:02 lol Oct 19 06:53:14 if not I can always get an iPhone. Oct 19 06:53:23 I assume there will be problems the first couple of months Oct 19 06:53:41 'eh, get a touch pro instead Oct 19 06:53:43 like... Oct 19 06:54:10 like... balancing the network usage and regional user density Oct 19 06:55:31 every time t-mobile has turned up a network service to all customers, there have been hiccups Oct 19 06:56:10 though, this may not be as bad, as the total customer base won't be switching over all at once Oct 19 06:56:39 just the pre-orders that actually received their devices Oct 19 06:56:46 and it'll be staggered over a few days Oct 19 06:57:09 people have been receiving their devices already, and more will on monday Oct 19 06:57:31 so tmo will have some of the load already managed by the big launch on tues Oct 19 06:58:01 which is the smartest thing I've ever seen tmo do. working with google has been good for them Oct 19 06:58:36 i'm a little surprised people who access to the android phone are using their iphone full time. Oct 19 06:58:38 tmo has become smart working with google Oct 19 06:58:50 muthu, i doubt this Oct 19 06:58:53 :) Oct 19 06:58:56 hope it doesn't go the other way ;) Oct 19 06:59:20 I would say, tmo has gotten good advice from google on this venture. Oct 19 06:59:31 we'll see what tmo has learned over the next few years Oct 19 07:00:00 man, I would love to see google get fed up and buy tmo outright Oct 19 07:00:23 granted that's unlikely to ever occur with wimax coming down the pipe Oct 19 07:00:38 google must go all out on mobile Oct 19 07:00:54 android API is ridculously comprehensive.. holy crap Oct 19 07:00:55 it's massive Oct 19 07:01:09 google's still making a play for national free wireless data broadband Oct 19 07:02:30 ohhh rumors Oct 19 07:02:30 odd, even your ident changed Oct 19 07:02:33 will you never cease :) Oct 19 07:02:50 theCarpenter, it's not a rumor. they've made it very clear Oct 19 07:03:06 google isn't looking to build it out themselves right now Oct 19 07:03:09 nope Oct 19 07:03:12 but they're paving the way for someone to do it Oct 19 07:03:45 or for everyone to eventually get cloud devices Oct 19 07:08:36 its not all that hard to believe if you think about it from their point of view Oct 19 07:08:48 if you arent online, you cant see thier ads, and they cant make money off you Oct 19 07:09:09 tv used to not be available to everyone, that changed fast lol Oct 19 07:09:20 any advice for xml preferences? I've copied one in the apis demo, but in my class that extends PreferenceActivity, R.xml.preferences is invalid. Oct 19 07:09:23 and by tv i mean broadcast, not the actual device Oct 19 07:09:30 umdk1d3 wonders how often it checks << every 24 hours Oct 19 07:09:46 umdk1d3: it checks only the beginning of the Flickr RSS feed Oct 19 07:10:30 coder1: add a 'preferences' xml file Oct 19 07:11:05 muthu_: i added a new folder /res/xml , then a new file in it named preferences.xml Oct 19 07:11:08 hey, romainguy you got a minute you could spare me? Oct 19 07:11:22 muthu_: after doing that, should R.xml autocomplete in eclipse? Oct 19 07:11:34