**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 20 02:59:57 2008 Oct 20 03:19:51 how should i handle preferences for my application? Oct 20 03:20:07 Context.getPreferences Oct 20 03:20:12 are PreferenceManager settings stored on a per-Activity basis? Oct 20 03:20:26 you give a unique name, and a moe Oct 20 03:20:29 mode Oct 20 03:20:34 it stores in files Oct 20 03:21:04 can i access activity A's prefs from activity B? Oct 20 03:21:53 although perhaps SharedPreferences is just what it implies Oct 20 03:21:55 to be shared among activities Oct 20 03:22:02 right Oct 20 03:22:12 yes, preferences are sharable Oct 20 03:22:30 its a persistent storage mechanism Oct 20 03:22:30 okay i shall test it out Oct 20 03:22:40 yeah i'm already using it in one activity Oct 20 03:22:42 lives as a file Oct 20 03:22:46 and reading the stuff out of it and posting it to static fields Oct 20 03:22:48 which is veyr lame Oct 20 03:22:52 haha Oct 20 03:22:57 just use the api Oct 20 03:23:22 i have a SQLite preference store that i am going to away with Oct 20 03:24:03 no need for a db Oct 20 03:25:09 how to sign the app? Oct 20 03:25:13 now that we are close.. Oct 20 03:25:40 oh right Oct 20 03:25:46 need to get a google maps key, too Oct 20 03:26:17 need to test it too ;) Oct 20 03:26:23 :D Oct 20 03:41:34 romainguy: you use wallpaper, shortcut activities in photostream.. Oct 20 03:41:42 is this not handled by the system for all apps? Oct 20 03:41:56 looks redundant to me Oct 20 03:45:12 muthu_: ? Oct 20 03:45:29 muthu_: what are you talking about? Oct 20 03:46:00 Oct 20 03:46:00 android:targetActivity="LoginActivity" Oct 20 03:46:10 from your photostream app.. Oct 20 03:46:16 ok, what's the problem with this? Oct 20 03:46:35 can the user not be able to create shortcut like this, for any app? Oct 20 03:46:49 i mean, also setting wallpapers Oct 20 03:46:57 have you red the comment? Oct 20 03:46:58 read Oct 20 03:47:10 it's just a way to give an activity two different names Oct 20 03:47:26 ok, haven't checked the code Oct 20 04:19:50 Can the TabWidget be make to have the tabs along the left or right of the screen? Oct 20 04:20:00 made Oct 20 04:49:00 I'm going to get my G1 tomorrow (hopefully).. anyone know of a good IRC client for it? Oct 20 04:49:24 get an ssh client Oct 20 04:49:27 i thought soemone mentioned there was one built in Oct 20 04:49:41 ssh was my 2nd option Oct 20 04:49:52 have it auto connect on disconnections Oct 20 04:50:01 ssh can connect to irc? Oct 20 04:50:03 and execute 'screen -r -x' on login ;) Oct 20 04:50:35 yeah.. there are a few good terminal irc clients Oct 20 04:51:13 so.. as of yet.. no 'native' clients yet Oct 20 04:53:00 DarkriftX: there is not one built in Oct 20 04:53:22 DarkriftX: oh, an ssh client, not an irc client :o) Oct 20 04:53:31 oh, someone made it sound like the default google talk client did irc also Oct 20 04:53:35 or so i missunderstood Oct 20 04:53:45 DarkriftX: no, it doesn't Oct 20 04:54:02 DarkriftX: there are XMPP clients that also do IRC, like Adium and Pidgin Oct 20 04:54:28 (note that XMPP is the technology that google talk is based on) Oct 20 04:57:40 I wonder if mibbit works on the G1 Oct 20 04:57:54 haven't looked in to how mibbit functions Oct 20 05:02:10 Writing an IRC app for Android should take a weekend. I would expect to see one up very quickly. Oct 20 05:02:34 cowmix: tommorrow? why not on the 21st? Oct 20 05:04:14 hey cowmix Oct 20 05:04:15 you there? Oct 20 05:04:29 Just talked to TMobile... 1000 went out to employees Oct 20 05:04:37 quote "I love it!" Oct 20 05:05:44 I guess that answers that question Oct 20 05:06:04 I don't see why mibbit wouldn't work btw Oct 20 05:06:13 nod Oct 20 05:06:21 I could try it on the emulator now I suppose. Oct 20 05:06:38 no need to go out of your way, unless you're curious too Oct 20 05:06:40 of course cowmix's ssh to irc is a good idea too Oct 20 05:06:55 I'm more hungry than curious... i'll give it a shot when I get back Oct 20 05:07:02 that ssh client works pretty well but I wish it supported sshkeys Oct 20 05:07:20 I'm seriosuly too lazy to go back to using RAW commands or even irssi :/ Oct 20 05:07:40 :PRIVMSG Oct 20 05:07:47 I'm just fine with my fbsd and linux use, but mirc has me derangedly spoiled Oct 20 05:07:47 BitchX? Oct 20 05:08:02 no, never liked bitchx Oct 20 05:08:06 even when I used it Oct 20 05:08:15 irssi if anything Oct 20 05:08:20 never used irssi Oct 20 05:08:36 then again I haven't used irc much in a while Oct 20 05:08:42 nod Oct 20 05:09:31 what i want is a good IM client and a good mail client Oct 20 05:09:43 I hear the default IM client uses SMS to send messages..(?) Oct 20 05:09:46 you got gmail and gtalk Oct 20 05:10:01 that's why they have the unlimited sms option Oct 20 05:10:03 gtalk? nah.. something with AIM etc Oct 20 05:10:20 g1 comes with aim functionality Oct 20 05:10:28 but it uses sms Oct 20 05:10:41 I'm cheap, I went for $25 because I assumed there'd be a "real" AIM client Oct 20 05:10:44 that uses the net Oct 20 05:10:49 nod Oct 20 05:10:52 i did the same Oct 20 05:10:55 lol Oct 20 05:11:04 this guy started one http://www.bluesata.com/index.pl?Blog&target=Android%20Test%207%20(Success) Oct 20 05:11:15 I can't believe google let the carriers talk them in to using sms Oct 20 05:11:15 but I don't think he released the code Oct 20 05:11:19 yeah wtf?! Oct 20 05:11:35 Some dude got VOIP going in a client too, which is kind of exciting. SIP Oct 20 05:11:41 or at least don't give us the option of forcing it to use data Oct 20 05:11:41 but hasn't been tested w/o a machine Oct 20 05:11:47 actually Oct 20 05:11:56 does the client work when connected via wifi? Oct 20 05:12:11 with no cell signal Oct 20 05:12:13 I'm expecting to use almost none of bundled sw.. I just hope it can be removed Oct 20 05:12:20 which client Oct 20 05:12:28 the SIP oen? Oct 20 05:12:30 I hoep so Oct 20 05:12:30 the gtalk/aim..etc IM client Oct 20 05:12:33 oh oh Oct 20 05:12:40 yeah I would think so, right? Oct 20 05:12:52 A net-based one would have to Oct 20 05:12:55 If it can, I'm sure there'll be a hack/patch Oct 20 05:12:56 languish: 01:11:15 < languish> I can't believe google let the carriers talk them in to using sms Oct 20 05:13:02 languish: what do you mean? Oct 20 05:13:22 tmobile convinced Google to use SMS for AIM Oct 20 05:13:31 gdsx, the carriers make $ off people using sms instead of Im over data Oct 20 05:13:32 so they can charge per-message fees Oct 20 05:13:50 so, that's only half-true Oct 20 05:14:00 ? Oct 20 05:14:26 what? Oct 20 05:14:26 (1) it's not something we have control over, and (2) the transport isn't SMS Oct 20 05:14:37 (1) yes it is, and (2) what is it? Oct 20 05:14:46 I heard it's text-message based AIM in their client Oct 20 05:15:00 waldo_: It's something called IMPS. Oct 20 05:15:01 gdsx then debunk it Oct 20 05:15:02 instead of using a library like JAIMBOT Oct 20 05:15:11 IMPS? Oct 20 05:15:32 ttuttle, ok, does IMPS get charged as SMS/Text messaging by the carrier? Oct 20 05:15:35 is that the IM over text messaging bridge? Oct 20 05:15:36 waldo_: It's a proxy-ish thing that keeps you connected while your phone goes in and out of range. Oct 20 05:15:40 languish: dunno Oct 20 05:15:57 ttuttle according to tmo reps it does Oct 20 05:15:59 Instant Messaging and Presence Service Oct 20 05:16:09 languish: it does, and that's something the carrier chooses to do or not do Oct 20 05:16:09 languish: okay Oct 20 05:16:24 languish: certainly, feel free to write another client Oct 20 05:16:35 I wish. Oct 20 05:16:40 people are writing new clients Oct 20 05:16:43 languish: Don't worry, someone will. Oct 20 05:16:46 I'm working on learning the basics Oct 20 05:17:05 ttuttle, i know. but I LIKE what I've seen of the built in client Oct 20 05:17:06 see http://www.bluesata.com/index.pl?Blog&target=Android%20Part%201 Oct 20 05:17:18 languish: So wait 'til it's open source, and rewrite the protocol bits. Oct 20 05:17:20 this is where teh guy starts.. Oct 20 05:17:21 Wildcaterpillar: UPS sez that mine is in PHX Oct 20 05:17:22 I'd prefer to have the option of setting it to use tcp/ip over 3g Oct 20 05:17:41 ttuttle: IMPS will not be open-sourced because it contains proprietary AIM/yahoo/MSN code Oct 20 05:17:46 gdsx: awww Oct 20 05:17:51 there is an AIM stack for java called JAIMBOT that he used for this. Oct 20 05:18:02 unfortunately libpurple is C. Oct 20 05:18:15 or package or whatever it's called in java Oct 20 05:19:25 ttuttle, gdsx - so does the default IM client connect via wifi when there's no carrier signal? Oct 20 05:19:34 waldo_: I probably can't say a whole lot more, but I'd encourage you to not trust everything you hear on the internet Oct 20 05:19:35 languish: I assume so. Oct 20 05:19:40 cowmix: wow! are tracking numbers up on t-mobile? Oct 20 05:20:14 languish: When WIFI is brought up, 3G/edge is taken down Oct 20 05:20:16 yeah Oct 20 05:20:21 ah Oct 20 05:20:30 well that bogarts that idea Oct 20 05:21:06 but it does mean the client can operate over standard tcp/ip without the carrier gateway Oct 20 05:21:11 which gives me hope Oct 20 05:21:25 wait...sorry, where are you seeing this? i just logged in...not seeing the shipping info Oct 20 05:21:46 WildCaterpilar: where are you on the site? Oct 20 05:22:09 just on the start page Oct 20 05:22:11 after loggin in Oct 20 05:22:20 I really would prefer not to use a 3rd party client for the IM functions just to get it to sensibly use data over 3g without per message charges (and without having to pay for the unlimited sms) Oct 20 05:22:58 you have to go to: Support -> Order Status Oct 20 05:23:20 data is data is data, and if a message were so important, I'd txt message it which the carrier is welcome to per charge me for Oct 20 05:23:39 in fact go here: http://www.ups.com/WebTracking/reference?loc=en_US%20&WT.svl=SubNav Oct 20 05:23:54 and put your phone number at the "Shipping Reference" Oct 20 05:24:09 WildCaterpillar, remember when you put your phone number in, use the format xxx-xxx-xxxx Oct 20 05:24:20 including the dashes Oct 20 05:24:42 oh wow. arrived in Sac on the 17th Oct 20 05:24:48 so maybe i get it tomorrow Oct 20 05:24:49 languish: what do you put if your phone number doesn't have the same digit in every spot? *g* Oct 20 05:24:58 :D Oct 20 05:25:16 ok smartass ???-???-??? Oct 20 05:25:18 :/ Oct 20 05:25:25 +? Oct 20 05:25:31 T-Mobile is going to be SLAMMED tomorrow. Oct 20 05:25:35 * languish suddenly feels like the riddler Oct 20 05:25:50 cowmix, nah, they've been staggering the deliveries Oct 20 05:26:12 some people got theirs last week Oct 20 05:26:23 languish: if you lurk on AndroidCommunity.. its like EVERYONE is getting their's tomorrow Oct 20 05:26:31 a HUGE bulk of them Oct 20 05:26:32 loll i know Oct 20 05:26:43 normal.. non-TMobile folk Oct 20 05:26:58 yeah, but even then it's many for a forum, not many for a geographically dispersed carrier Oct 20 05:27:09 i'm in a 3G city.. i hope it works right Oct 20 05:27:23 some peopele will still get theirs tues and wed Oct 20 05:28:08 regardless I expect problems. tmo always goes through growing pains every time they do something new Oct 20 05:28:22 i'll be happy if it's all sorted out by dec. Oct 20 05:28:43 I don't want them having issues over the holiday and NYE Oct 20 05:28:59 not that what I or any of us wants matters Oct 20 05:29:16 we'll I gotta git to bed.. if I stay up Santa might not ever get to my house.. :) Oct 20 05:29:26 'night Oct 20 05:30:16 hmm...i think i might have to go to the UPS center and pick it up...looks like scheduled delivery is on 21st Oct 20 05:30:22 but it has arrived in my city Oct 20 05:30:42 Good luck to all waiting to receive their G1s ;-) Oct 20 05:30:44 gdsx, I know I'm not alone in the IM/data carrier charge per message confusion. Would you consider writing up a shot full explaination and posting it somewhere blogtastic? Oct 20 05:30:54 ttuttle lol :) Oct 20 05:31:06 * ttuttle knows what it's like... trust me, it's worth the wait. Oct 20 05:31:08 ttuttle: you already get yours? Oct 20 05:31:17 languish: I can't do that, no. Oct 20 05:31:18 also, I know I come across as an ass. thanks for the help Oct 20 05:31:25 unix_remote: Google sent me one early, for free, as I was an Android intern over the summer. Oct 20 05:31:38 languish: if you want to badger someone, badger T-mobile Oct 20 05:31:41 ah. so you're due for an update :-P Oct 20 05:31:57 gdsx, NDA or job related restriction? if so, do you have a problem with me doing it? Oct 20 05:32:05 gdsx, no no, not to badger them Oct 20 05:32:10 just to clear up the misconceptions Oct 20 05:32:28 "this is how it works" not "hey we're getting charged because" Oct 20 05:33:06 more specifically "this is how the default Im app communicates" Oct 20 05:33:07 languish: a bunch of reasons. Keep in mind that I work on the Android team, and as such, I have access to info that Google, and/or that our partners consider confidential Oct 20 05:33:11 *IM Oct 20 05:33:34 gdsx, right. if anything you told me is confidential, I won't post it Oct 20 05:33:36 hence my asking Oct 20 05:33:58 I'm not looking to cause problems so much as clear up the BS Oct 20 05:34:59 because I know I'm not alone in the assumption the communication is via SMS, as opposed to IMPS, and that many wonder if when WIFI is brought up, 3G/edge is taken down Oct 20 05:35:03 err Oct 20 05:35:26 rather, if the IM client will use wifi, when 3g/edge is unavailable Oct 20 05:36:44 languish: I don't know conclusively how the IM client behaves when cell data is down. Oct 20 05:36:55 'k Oct 20 05:37:13 guess I'll find out tomorrow Oct 20 05:37:31 cool; have fun opening the box and everything :o) Oct 20 05:37:34 it's a pretty box Oct 20 05:37:39 lol i saw :) Oct 20 05:38:36 I wonder how charged it comes, since the battery type likes juice but supposedly doesn't have memory issues Oct 20 05:38:59 languish: it eats up battery REALLY quick. Oct 20 05:39:00 languish: Mine came about 20-30%. Oct 20 05:39:04 languish: You'll want to plug it in. Oct 20 05:39:09 nod Oct 20 05:39:22 yeah, i think it's a minimal charge for shipping purposes Oct 20 05:39:41 I hope there's an easy way to turn 3g on and off. Oct 20 05:39:55 unix_remote, from waht I saw there is Oct 20 05:39:58 *what Oct 20 05:40:29 languish: no i mean right from the home screen. an app that changes icon or something. sort of one-click thing. Oct 20 05:40:38 it's an available option and there are ways the put options like that on the desktop as icons Oct 20 05:40:39 unix_remote: you mean 2G-only, or no-cell, or no-data? Oct 20 05:41:26 someone explained it in here a day or two agao. I'll have to go back over the log to find the method Oct 20 05:41:47 cool. I think that's another one of the major flaws of the iPhone. Oct 20 05:42:44 gdsx, edge/2g only, and no-cell options Oct 20 05:43:09 i know the 2g only option exists Oct 20 05:43:43 yeah Oct 20 05:44:04 languish: how much did you end up paying for service? Oct 20 05:44:05 I know there's definitely a way to do no-cell. I forget specifically how, or if you can get to it with anycut Oct 20 05:44:43 unix_remote, I have a $39.99 calling plan, and the $25 unlimited data + 400 sms Oct 20 05:44:55 well I have that x2, because of my wife Oct 20 05:45:10 languish: oh, you're an existing customer? Oct 20 05:45:15 we may switch to a family plam, which'll save us $25 Oct 20 05:45:24 unix_remote, yes Oct 20 05:45:41 how much does your bill usually end up being after taxes? Oct 20 05:45:41 I'be had an account since before t-mobile was in the area.. Oct 20 05:45:55 I was an omnipoint and a voicestream customer Oct 20 05:46:43 unix_remote, I'd have to go look. My wife saves me the burden of crying over seeing how large our bills are, until she finds a mistake. then she sics me on them Oct 20 05:47:15 I'll be happy to tell you tomorrow Oct 20 05:47:32 heh, cool. thanks. Oct 20 05:47:35 nod Oct 20 05:47:58 just ak me again when you see me chatting after 9am eastern Oct 20 05:48:04 *ask Oct 20 05:48:57 wait Oct 20 05:49:02 actually duh, I can check online Oct 20 05:49:04 silly me Oct 20 05:49:07 hang on Oct 20 05:50:40 we have some additional features, and the total is about $111 for both lines Oct 20 05:51:06 that;s without the additional $25 per line we'll have tacked on next month Oct 20 05:51:26 ahh, yea the math didnt add up there for a second. Oct 20 05:52:24 so it's about $18 in taxes on a about a $92 bill, roughly Oct 20 05:52:58 yea i'm estimating about 80 dollars a month just from T-Mobile. Oct 20 05:53:09 from there, you can figure out what the taxes will be on the additional $25 :/ Oct 20 05:54:21 what really annoys me is this assinine $18 "upgrade fee" Oct 20 05:55:02 don't tell me you're giving me free shipping then charging me %18 for ground shipping Oct 20 05:55:10 $18 Oct 20 05:55:49 Well, I'll be initiating a new contract in-store. So I side-stepped that. Oct 20 05:55:56 nod Oct 20 05:56:04 yeah, they love new customer Oct 20 05:56:05 s Oct 20 05:58:15 heh, I havent quite decided whether or not I'll get a G1 or not. Oct 20 05:58:34 why go tmo if you're not? Oct 20 05:59:10 because I'm betting on one of the other carriers telling me whether or not they'll be ready to release an Android device before December. Oct 20 05:59:37 and because T-Mobile coverage is generally REALLY good in Dallas. Oct 20 06:00:03 i have 2 reasons I didn't jump ship. 1) they have the best signal by my house. It's the ONLY place they really have the best signal based on where I go often. *sigh* and 2) well, been a customer for a dogs age, and my wife doesn't really watch to switch carriers. Oct 20 06:00:25 I was ready to switch to att if they had gotten the touch pro before sprint, but then the G1 came around Oct 20 06:01:19 watch/want Oct 20 06:01:50 just don't expect tmo to love you much after a year or two Oct 20 06:01:58 they'll be polite as heck Oct 20 06:02:15 they just don't have a care in hell about customer loyalty. Oct 20 06:02:38 languish: yup. Had better luck with att giving me a better deal on a device after spending 4 years with them. Oct 20 06:02:58 nod Oct 20 06:03:45 http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2008/tc20081017_238719.htm Oct 20 06:03:47 and it begins :-P Oct 20 06:04:13 one of my clients was a t-mobile master dealer, and in helping his organization, I did a few months doing customer support. I dealt with tmo as one of their 3rd party reps. Oct 20 06:04:57 they hated me, for actually resolving issues for customers to the customers satisfaction, WITHOUT giving away the keys to the car Oct 20 06:05:26 what headaches it was getting simple resolutions Oct 20 06:12:06 any news on market? Oct 20 06:12:36 nope Oct 20 06:12:41 argghh Oct 20 06:17:55 it looks like handango is how Oct 20 06:18:20 omg Oct 20 06:18:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0DmtmmFEVo&feature=bzb302 Oct 20 06:20:02 that is fake wc Oct 20 06:21:07 the shadows are all wrong for oen thing.. and the bad acting Oct 20 06:21:20 agreed but it's amusing even for a fake Oct 20 06:21:27 ya Oct 20 06:21:35 now this is something.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm1IfqVofNA Oct 20 06:21:41 (safe for work) Oct 20 06:21:52 i like the little nod from teh best man like "oh yeah.. my turn to give you the ring, right? total fake Oct 20 06:22:40 (insert "I bet he was givin her more thna just the ring nyuk nyuk joke here) Oct 20 06:25:21 well he did make her wet Oct 20 06:26:54 clap clap clap clapclap clap clapclapclapclapclapclapclap Oct 20 06:35:17 if anyone wants a $15 plantronics bluetooth headset (or 3 for $11.66 each) for your G1, woot.com is selling them now Oct 20 06:35:26 * languish loves woot Oct 20 06:35:58 note: they're new, but still only have a 90 day warranty Oct 20 06:37:26 is that a good headset Oct 20 06:37:27 ? Oct 20 06:37:36 waldo_: They're all pretty much the same. Oct 20 06:37:45 gotcha Oct 20 06:37:59 never actually had one Oct 20 06:38:20 www.woot.com has 9.99 for plantronics.. hmm Oct 20 06:38:27 languish: anyone who lives in us Oct 20 06:39:00 so I was thinking of android malware the other day Oct 20 06:39:19 and I realized that "spam" may start coming from compromised phones Oct 20 06:39:22 and how mcuh that would suck Oct 20 06:39:31 waldo_: Yeah, that would suck. Oct 20 06:39:34 because it will affect non-android users.. they'll get viagra calls at 3am Oct 20 06:40:05 thx for the idea Oct 20 06:40:20 yeah I should patent it Oct 20 06:41:07 languish: anyone who lives in us they ship shirt.woot.com items internationally. I don't know about woot.com's Oct 20 06:41:11 "Software that automates the calling of 1900 numbers" Oct 20 06:41:30 hehe Oct 20 06:41:55 that would be bad too. Oct 20 06:42:56 "Sir, someone in posession of your handset dialed that number which you are now being charged $2,672, and are responsible for." "but..but.. A GHOSt DID IT AAAHHHHHHHHHHH" Oct 20 06:43:23 t-mobile getting calls about haunted phones Oct 20 06:43:26 omg Oct 20 06:43:27 I'm actually suprised it doesn't exist already Oct 20 06:43:31 and with halloween coming up Oct 20 06:43:35 I guess it is a bit more difficult to get software on mobiles Oct 20 06:43:35 i bet they will too Oct 20 06:43:54 nah, people are dumb as dirt Oct 20 06:43:58 it'll happen Oct 20 06:44:01 yeah totally Oct 20 06:44:08 this is how it will happen Oct 20 06:44:49 peoples G1's are gonna suddenly blast porn music and shouts of "I DOWNLOAD GAY PORN" with accompanying screen images Oct 20 06:44:57 lol Oct 20 06:44:57 languish: /me starts coding. Oct 20 06:45:03 lawl Oct 20 06:45:14 regular spam w/ link --> .apk file --> stupid person says yes to giving dialing rights to "nude lindsay lohan pixx viewer" --> dominos pizza stealth wardialing 24/7 Oct 20 06:45:19 does android even let you dial a number via code? Oct 20 06:45:30 duey yeah if you give it priviliges too Oct 20 06:45:32 o Oct 20 06:45:33 to Oct 20 06:45:33 if it doesn't now, it will Oct 20 06:45:40 if to it you give priviliges Oct 20 06:45:41 open source baby Oct 20 06:45:46 shit I can't spell Oct 20 06:45:49 thats somewaht dumb Oct 20 06:45:52 well Oct 20 06:45:59 apps should be able to populate the number field Oct 20 06:46:05 if there's a mispelled prank app, we know who wrote it Oct 20 06:46:05 but the user should have to press a button Oct 20 06:46:18 duey it can do it all Oct 20 06:46:42 rooofl stealth dominoes Oct 20 06:46:44 duey, it'll hide the button under another keypress Oct 20 06:46:58 like save the tactile data Oct 20 06:47:08 then use it again later Oct 20 06:47:21 :/ Oct 20 06:47:26 the input event routing doesn't exactly work like that ^^ Oct 20 06:47:50 swetland, in a whatchamacallit mode.. to test the screen it would Oct 20 06:47:52 i think it just sends an intent to the dialer Oct 20 06:48:01 and the dialing will come up and it'll go. Oct 20 06:48:06 * languish brain soggy Oct 20 06:48:18 I haven't looked into how dialing works Oct 20 06:48:29 seems like a bit of a security problem to me Oct 20 06:48:31 you put your finger to the numbers in the correct order Oct 20 06:48:33 having apps auto dialing Oct 20 06:48:39 I didn't think there was a "dial-this-number" with no confirmation intent available to apps Oct 20 06:48:45 dude Oct 20 06:48:48 oh man Oct 20 06:48:50 voice doialing Oct 20 06:48:51 swetland, if so then good :) Oct 20 06:48:57 joke mp's dialing by voice Oct 20 06:48:58 but I don't work on the framework or apps level stuff ^^ Oct 20 06:49:01 *mp3's Oct 20 06:49:05 swetland: greetings Oct 20 06:49:08 but y'all can read up on it here: http://www.androidjavadoc.com/1.0_r1/index.html Oct 20 06:49:09 'evening Oct 20 06:49:29 swetland really? Oct 20 06:49:33 no dialthis#? Oct 20 06:49:34 hm Oct 20 06:50:01 AH Oct 20 06:50:06 diagnostic mode Oct 20 06:50:10 there's gotta be one Oct 20 06:50:10 looking Oct 20 06:50:21 dial a number while the phones in users pocket Oct 20 06:50:28 wait for accidently confirmation? Oct 20 06:50:33 lol Oct 20 06:50:36 acutally lol my phone did that tonite Oct 20 06:50:43 my phone does it all the time Oct 20 06:50:46 ended up leaving creepy 4 minute message on someones answering machine Oct 20 06:50:49 while i was at concert Oct 20 06:50:58 musta bumped it weird Oct 20 06:51:04 lookat at android.telephony and I see how to get dialing info but not how to dial Oct 20 06:51:21 dude, create a sex app, that makes the phone vibrate, to arouse a woman.. Oct 20 06:51:34 hahaha Oct 20 06:51:36 accompanying erotic audio Oct 20 06:51:48 * duey creates new app on iphone store Oct 20 06:51:51 iVibrate Oct 20 06:51:55 and under it.. while it's running and providing tactile feedback, have it autodial Oct 20 06:52:24 clitdial 0.69 Oct 20 06:52:52 hmm Oct 20 06:52:54 Intent mIntent = new Intent ("android.intent.action.CALL", Oct 20 06:52:54 Uri.parse("tel:123123123")); Oct 20 06:52:54 startActivity (mIntent); Oct 20 06:52:56 there ya go. Oct 20 06:53:16 or maybe it's android.intent.action.DIAL Oct 20 06:53:34 CALL is "actually call", DIAL is "enter the number but don't hit send". Oct 20 06:53:39 you realize if my phone ever gets infected with one of these ideas, I'm gonna hunt you all down and buy you a beer Oct 20 06:53:52 lol Oct 20 06:53:57 ah Oct 20 06:54:03 ttuttle thanks! Oct 20 06:54:04 so it is possible Oct 20 06:54:07 waldo_: np Oct 20 06:54:09 yup looks that way Oct 20 06:54:34 tmp support reps won't see what's coming Oct 20 06:54:42 but it's gonna be hilarious Oct 20 06:54:51 fucked up as all hell Oct 20 06:54:55 but hilarious Oct 20 06:55:35 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Intent.html Oct 20 06:55:37 no call intent Oct 20 06:55:38 ? Oct 20 06:55:42 btw, it'll be really weak cheap beer, because there's a lotta you in here Oct 20 06:56:03 nm Oct 20 06:56:06 missed it Oct 20 06:56:22 duey Oct 20 06:56:22 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Intent.html#ACTION_CALL Oct 20 06:56:24 Note: there will be restrictions on which applications can initiate a call; most applications should use the ACTION_DIAL. Oct 20 06:56:55 yes I see that Oct 20 06:57:11 I wonder if you'll be able to get around it Oct 20 06:58:33 make a test app Oct 20 06:58:34 as long as voice dial exists, it'll happen Oct 20 06:58:56 granted, it likely will only call whoevers in the contact list Oct 20 06:59:04 i wonder also an application that modifies the contacts to dial 1900 numbers Oct 20 06:59:07 and then play an mp3 Oct 20 06:59:31 well there you go Oct 20 07:00:02 it would be cool to have like a feature called random_dial -- where you join a group of "russian roulette dialers" who want to talk to random people by area/location/etc Oct 20 07:00:09 interest/gender/age all that Oct 20 07:00:21 and you spin the wheel and get hooked up with someone in your neighborhood who's signed up for it Oct 20 07:00:36 that would likely work Oct 20 07:00:52 like flash dating by phone Oct 20 07:00:53 waldo_: can't imagine who you would get on line.. lol Oct 20 07:00:59 you enter your little profile Oct 20 07:01:02 interesting thought though Oct 20 07:01:16 say I'm looking for a girl within 5 years of my age... to call me when I'm within 1/2 mile of her Oct 20 07:01:25 get some russian prostitution ring to back it Oct 20 07:01:30 perfect! Oct 20 07:02:09 the most interesting thing in my opinion I've seen is the guy who ported SIP over... Oct 20 07:02:35 we ain't seen nothin yet Oct 20 07:02:38 ooohhh hay Oct 20 07:02:42 we ain't seen nothin yet Oct 20 07:02:55 some android promo should use that song Oct 20 07:03:06 b-b-baby Oct 20 07:13:19 lol Oct 20 07:14:31 catching up on backlog Dark? Oct 20 07:14:33 :() Oct 20 07:18:43 yeah Oct 20 07:20:36 how to enable icons in context menu? Oct 20 07:26:37 wow asia ended up way high today on the stock market.. Oct 20 07:27:18 asia is confused on mondays Oct 20 07:27:24 euroep is slightly up Oct 20 07:27:26 europe Oct 20 07:27:29 heh Oct 20 08:23:44 West the best android community online atm? Oct 20 08:24:06 anddev.org Oct 20 08:24:21 ah, looks good. Oct 20 08:24:25 Oh, even a book. Oct 20 08:24:31 Gracias for that link my friend. Oct 20 08:24:36 cool Oct 20 08:24:45 there's a lot of new communities coming up Oct 20 08:24:49 all exciting.. Oct 20 08:25:02 helloandroid.com Oct 20 08:25:07 is another good one Oct 20 08:25:27 if you are looking for market Oct 20 08:25:39 slideme.org , andappstore.com Oct 20 08:27:31 awesome Oct 20 08:27:35 hopefully my G1 comes earlty Oct 20 08:27:37 early* Oct 20 08:27:54 great Oct 20 08:29:42 yeah i got the environment setup, (i suck) at java but it's not a hard language from what i've seen, I do a lot of perl/python already so it shouldn't be too hard to pick up. Oct 20 08:29:56 Well I should say, I've avoided it intentionally up until now haha. Oct 20 08:30:12 yeah, easy to pickup Oct 20 08:31:43 welp night time for me 1:30 am Oct 20 08:43:32 Sup Oct 20 08:44:05 Wonder if anyone already started developing an irc client? Oct 20 08:45:26 we had that convo earlier tonight Oct 20 08:46:10 no conclusive result, but then, we dunno what's in the app store yet, and those who do, aren't saying Oct 20 08:55:10 True Oct 20 08:55:20 I love that you're active Oct 20 08:56:05 But we will see a lot more once the device is in peoples hands Oct 20 09:01:40 wut Oct 20 09:02:36 when the nda ends? Oct 20 09:03:49 if i knew, i couldn't tell you Oct 20 09:03:51 :/ Oct 20 09:04:05 ha sucks Oct 20 09:04:08 lol Oct 20 10:04:17 are the applications for android free? Oct 20 10:04:33 Well not all apps are free Oct 20 10:04:48 At the moment all the apps offered in the android market are free Oct 20 10:04:57 but in the future they dont have to be free Kontuus Oct 20 10:05:24 (free like free beer) Oct 20 10:10:02 Kontuus, basically right now they don't have a way to charge for them, so you get them without paying. Some will be fully functional, some might be crippled, so you upgrade later for full functionality Oct 20 10:10:06 (and pay) Oct 20 10:10:14 does a calendar (task manager) for android exists? Oct 20 10:10:24 yes Oct 20 10:10:34 Well the Google Calender exists Oct 20 10:10:42 it integrates with google calender and there's also a 3rd party app Oct 20 10:10:46 and will be more Oct 20 10:11:13 How good is the 3rd party app ? Oct 20 10:11:20 I haven't used it. Oct 20 10:11:26 ok Oct 20 10:11:31 actually Oct 20 10:11:43 Android also runs on motorola A780 i have seen the demo ! Oct 20 10:11:57 yang, yes, but that's not "oficiialy" Oct 20 10:11:59 err Oct 20 10:12:01 yep Oct 20 10:12:03 officially Oct 20 10:12:12 it runs on a number of hardware devices Oct 20 10:12:16 it's linux Oct 20 10:12:22 I just think the motorola EZX doesnt have calling support yet Oct 20 10:13:03 it'll also need carrier support for full functionality Oct 20 10:13:27 like with t-mobile, if you don't have a particular account type enabled for your account, you cannot get 3g data Oct 20 10:14:12 Well outside of the us you can use it with non t-mobile sim cards including 3G Oct 20 10:14:31 Our country doesn't have T-mobile Oct 20 10:14:46 duly noted Oct 20 10:15:06 point being, you'll need carrier support, whatever carrier it is :) Oct 20 10:15:22 thats true Oct 20 10:15:44 but it can all be coded that way to "unlock" the phone from T-mobile to another provider Oct 20 10:16:15 as i have seen the frequencies span in 800/900/1800/1900 range Oct 20 10:16:47 well, you may just be able to compile it for your device after the the source code is released Oct 20 10:17:09 rather than having to unlock a device from tmo Oct 20 10:22:54 ok Oct 20 10:29:36 FAIL Oct 20 10:35:37 ? Oct 20 10:58:12 lol Oct 20 10:58:14 iPhone Oct 20 10:58:28 i dont even know if i want the G1 anymore ..its such a chore Oct 20 10:58:30 lol Oct 20 11:44:59 Has anyone seen the home application render 'oddly' during changes in orientation? Oct 20 11:50:15 taken just after a switch to landscape mode: http://www.tomgibara.com/tmp/home-bad.png Oct 20 11:51:57 It stays in that state for a little less than second before my application re-appears. Oct 20 12:04:25 http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/20/motorolas-android-slider-getting-social-in-q2-2009/ Oct 20 12:12:48 tomgibara: never seen it Oct 20 12:13:13 Does the 'take screenshot' button of the ddms perspective also work on devices? Oct 20 12:22:45 MrSnowflake: Good question, I don't know, but I'd guess yes Oct 20 12:39:00 how often does MediaScanner scan the memory ? Oct 20 13:14:23 for VideoView, is there a difference speed-wise between setVideoPath() and setVideoUri() ? Oct 20 14:07:53 ok androild.locationmanager does not have getCurrentlocation in sdk1.0, it used to be there in previous versions Oct 20 14:08:27 correct Oct 20 14:08:31 getLastKnownLocation(String provider) Oct 20 14:08:42 that's the one you are looking for now Oct 20 14:09:04 ok Oct 20 14:23:16 my phone sat in louisville for 3 days and finally started moving late last night :( but maybe it'll get into MD in time for me to just pick it up tonight :) Oct 20 14:23:45 (and i still hate the layout methods but thats more an issue with wrapping my head around it better than anything else I suspect.) Oct 20 14:29:15 i wouldnt be suprised if tmobile worked closely with ups to meet a target delivery date Oct 20 14:29:40 instead of letting a good number of them be delivered early Oct 20 14:33:26 umdk1d3: not surprising, all of them were sent at different shipping levels. Oct 20 14:33:43 regardless of what was selected at checkout. Oct 20 14:34:38 did they charge more for certain shipping rates? Oct 20 14:38:45 not afaik, or at least i don't think i had an option Oct 20 14:39:02 since it was a preorder Oct 20 14:42:41 has anyone gotten their G1 pre-order yet? Oct 20 14:43:41 doh! I wish Oct 20 14:43:48 i'm waiting for motorola's Oct 20 14:43:50 it's about 40 minutes away from me Oct 20 14:43:59 sitting in a UPS distribution center Oct 20 14:44:05 raid! Oct 20 14:44:06 :P Oct 20 14:44:22 kslater: you might be able to convince them to let you pick it up there, if they have any sort of customer-facing counter there. just gotta call before it goes on a truck. Oct 20 14:44:26 or just wait for tomorrow :) Oct 20 14:44:40 well, at least I got my answer. Most carriers wont deliver for atleast another 6 months. Oct 20 14:44:55 its worth the wait Oct 20 14:44:56 kslater: yeah, I've picked stuff up at the local UPS warehouse Oct 20 14:44:59 i don't like HTC phones Oct 20 14:45:02 hello Oct 20 14:45:06 i'm at work Oct 20 14:45:19 michaelnovakjr_: what would you prefer? Oct 20 14:45:30 i am curious to see the motorola a Oct 20 14:45:34 android phone Oct 20 14:45:54 not that i am giving up on my iPhone :) Oct 20 14:46:50 been hearing quite a lot of that actually. people are quite content with their iPhone. Oct 20 14:46:58 oh yea Oct 20 14:47:01 its amazing Oct 20 14:47:18 i don't have an iphone Oct 20 14:47:26 I want to write what I want to write for my phone. It's not about polish for me. Oct 20 14:47:27 i don't like HTC's proprietary connector Oct 20 14:47:41 its lame and annoying Oct 20 14:47:45 it's a USB port Oct 20 14:47:46 michaelnovakjr_: Neither do I. I bent (didn't break yet) the USB connector on my earphones :-( Oct 20 14:47:46 yeah, that I don't like either, although it's just mini usb Oct 20 14:48:01 wastrel, except you need a connector Oct 20 14:48:06 Surprisingly, I hear a lot of that too. Though most people I talk to dont actually use their iPhone for music unless they are in their car. Oct 20 14:48:08 you're talking for earphones Oct 20 14:48:19 i use my iPhone on the subway Oct 20 14:48:26 wastrel, :) yea it sucks Oct 20 14:48:29 would rather it had either: 1) mini stereo jack or 2) bluetooth stereo profiel Oct 20 14:48:34 i don't listen to music so meh. Oct 20 14:48:55 i can listen to music and answer calls on my iPhone with the same headphones Oct 20 14:49:02 michaelnovakj_: trying to sell the iPhone in here? Oct 20 14:49:08 are you an apple rep now too? Oct 20 14:49:09 lol Oct 20 14:49:12 haha Oct 20 14:49:14 hehe Oct 20 14:49:22 its a great device Oct 20 14:49:31 depends who you are. Oct 20 14:49:36 some people don't care for it Oct 20 14:49:38 whats an iPhone? : \ Oct 20 14:49:39 <---- like me Oct 20 14:49:55 but thats good you like it Oct 20 14:49:57 if you used one for a week, you wouldn't give it back Oct 20 14:50:05 i hate the keyboard Oct 20 14:50:27 i haven't used much more than the keyboard actually... but i absolutely hate the keyboard Oct 20 14:51:07 michaelnovakjr_: i used one for a month, sold it at cost just to get rid of it. some things were great (multitouch) some were ok (browsing was on par with my e90) and some things sucked (camera, lack of kb/onscreen kb, etc) Oct 20 14:51:28 w00t finally found out the name of the singer i was looking for, gotta love google Oct 20 14:51:33 wrong channel... Oct 20 14:51:34 lol Oct 20 14:52:36 why does bindService return false, while the service is getting connected? Oct 20 14:53:58 MrSnowflake: its async Oct 20 14:55:04 are the romours on a today market-news reasonable? Oct 20 14:55:30 ? Oct 20 14:55:34 what do you mean? Oct 20 14:56:03 if its not announced today.. then its too late Oct 20 14:58:27 Dougie187: Announcing the website, where we can put our apps to, so they can be loaded from within the market. Oct 20 14:58:46 where are the rumors? Oct 20 14:59:10 plusminus_: is starting it right now ;) Oct 20 14:59:14 lol Oct 20 15:00:26 ? Oct 20 15:00:33 where? Oct 20 15:00:52 that's ok, muthu, i got the joke Oct 20 15:01:01 xD Oct 20 15:01:05 plusminus_: you asked if the rumors were reasonable, so what rumors are you referring to? Oct 20 15:01:10 I'd love to see more information about how to upload apps to the market place etc. but I don't see why today (or tomorrow) forms any sort of deadline Oct 20 15:01:26 tomgibara: i guess thats what im getting at. Oct 20 15:01:38 because maybe users would like to see some apps in the market :) Oct 20 15:01:44 ... from the first day on Oct 20 15:01:53 plusminus_: but where are you getting the rumors from? Oct 20 15:02:00 plusminus_: or is it something you are just making up? Oct 20 15:02:05 read it somewhen in here.. dunno Oct 20 15:02:12 Well, the reviews I've read say that there are more than 30 apps available already Oct 20 15:02:40 tomgibara: yes but is 30 a lot or damn few ? Oct 20 15:03:05 do you expect to find everything you want within 30 apps ? Oct 20 15:03:08 I would think thats quite a few for a new system. Oct 20 15:03:09 not me Oct 20 15:03:13 all about how good they are and what gaps they fill i think Oct 20 15:03:20 No, but does it matter? A user could entertain themselves until the market place becomes fully active. Oct 20 15:03:20 plusminus_: do you expect to find everything you want within a month of getting a phone? Oct 20 15:03:29 dougie: android isnt new. its almost a year since first launch Oct 20 15:03:41 plusminus_: they are trying to play quality control, i think. only official apps they have used and tested are going to be in at launch. Oct 20 15:03:44 Dougie187: at least a lot more than within these 30 Oct 20 15:03:56 remember, there were nearly 1800 entrants to ADC Oct 20 15:04:02 30 seems...paltry Oct 20 15:04:02 plusminus_: but thats just my guess. seems reasonable Oct 20 15:04:09 commonsguy: think about how many of those were worth using. Oct 20 15:04:19 commonsguy: and had teams that continued to develop after they lost. Oct 20 15:04:23 30 doesn't seem too bad anymre Oct 20 15:04:25 anymore* Oct 20 15:04:27 More apps at launch will not increase customer satisfaction Oct 20 15:04:29 jasta: yes, but its poor. I feel betrayed once again Oct 20 15:04:31 better apps will Oct 20 15:04:49 plusminus_: lol, well, i guess i would too if my app was ready Oct 20 15:04:50 the market needs to be open Oct 20 15:04:56 no point in discussing quality here Oct 20 15:04:59 :-D Oct 20 15:05:01 I know that's frustrating for people who are sitting on better apps Oct 20 15:05:17 tomgibara: problem is, it's easier to measure quantity than quality, so the media will leap on the "only 30 apps" issue Oct 20 15:05:27 but google staff probably don't want to be playing gatekeeper Oct 20 15:05:50 plusminus_: if you really want to get angry, Google offered devices to ADC winners and the opportunity to work with their Market team to get their apps launched early/on-time. So, if you didn't win the ADC, Google thinks you suck :) Oct 20 15:05:56 commonsguy: true, but at the same time, you don't want thousands of people telling the press : All the apps are crap Oct 20 15:05:58 30 apps? that's it? Oct 20 15:06:23 30 would be a joke Oct 20 15:06:31 tomgibara: true, but i think there's a happier medium between 30 nice apps and 1800 pieces o' crap Oct 20 15:06:43 i doubt there will be anything productive either Oct 20 15:06:50 commonsguy: Only if some one chooses the apps Oct 20 15:06:51 commonsguy: do you want 30 nice apps and 20 pieces of crap? Oct 20 15:06:58 If google did that there would be a huge complaint Oct 20 15:07:02 i wasn't impressed by much of what was in the ADC Oct 20 15:07:12 michaelnovakj_: who was? Oct 20 15:07:14 commonsguy: well, there isn't, actually. if you opened it up, everyone would submit, and there would be hardly any review process to weed out bad ones or give first-time customers a way to pick just the quality apps Oct 20 15:07:34 but all you're doing is delaying matters by, what, days? Oct 20 15:07:37 what they really should have is a cooker repo so you can configure your market app to have access to crappy/unstable/new apps and review them Oct 20 15:07:38 jasta: there can always be featured sections Oct 20 15:07:39 God, I've managed to start a rumour that there are 30 apps: I distinctly remember at least one reviewer making about that estimate, that's all. IT IS NOT A FACT that there are 30 launch apps. Oct 20 15:07:45 then they can go out of cooker and into the main repo after some time Oct 20 15:07:55 (imagine that, just like Debian, RedHat, etc *grin*) Oct 20 15:08:06 tomgibara: heh, rumors spread like wildfire. Oct 20 15:08:35 if the market doesn't open, it would be less than 30 Oct 20 15:08:38 There are probably at least 50 or so, if the ADC winners got help getting in. Oct 20 15:08:42 tomgibara: actually, ttuttle -- google's weakest link -- was in here the other day telling us there were "lots", so many in fact that installing them all took forever. Oct 20 15:08:48 muthu: why do you say this? Oct 20 15:09:23 I don't think it is a big issue if the market doesn't come out until wednesday personally. Oct 20 15:09:24 Rumour: Android Market was just a joke. It will be never open !!! Oct 20 15:09:32 jasta: I can well believe that Oct 20 15:09:45 muthu: if the market is "open", featured sections would be based on user feedback, not google's opinion. so, that wouldnt really work :) Oct 20 15:09:55 :) Oct 20 15:10:07 lol it'd be like youtube where you get 10 soft core porn videos. Oct 20 15:10:39 yeah, i'm actually of the opinion that the market should probably wait until Wed, to guard against bad initial reviews. but hey, i also think they should split the repo so that new apps can be tested by less lame people first Oct 20 15:10:58 jasta: that is an interesting model Oct 20 15:11:03 why should you be able to post an app to the market if you don't even know if it works on a real device? Oct 20 15:11:12 anyone knows if there will be a new sdk before wednesday? There are still some bugs that might be useful not to have them... Like not being able to load some Jpegs ... WTF ?!?!? Oct 20 15:11:16 jasta: but you are going to have muthu reviewing all the apps... Oct 20 15:11:19 zhobbs: why should you care? Oct 20 15:11:21 commonsguy: it's just common sense. everybody that has packages pushed down to "regular users" does it this way. Oct 20 15:11:23 commonsguy: It's pretty standard for incubating OS libraries. Oct 20 15:11:43 muthu: wait, why should you care if your application runs on a real device? isn't that the whole point of having an application? Oct 20 15:11:45 no kidding -- which is why I said it's interesting Oct 20 15:11:46 muthu: if you don't who is going to use your app? Oct 20 15:11:49 muthu: you should zhobbs: thats another point :) we should have devices before... Oct 20 15:11:58 that's the point Oct 20 15:11:58 Dougie187: i don't even necessarily mean that reviews will make or break the app, but just offering devs a chance to do "limited" releases to people who think of themselves as more adventurous computing users. Oct 20 15:12:06 ok, I just arrived. is it me, or are there a few new apps in the market and most of the original ones *missing*? Oct 20 15:12:17 so they can get feedback and refine before they target the greater community Oct 20 15:12:26 commonsguy: But it requires an authority to 'move' the apps into the mainstream, that's why it won't work here Oct 20 15:12:39 again, this is very much like how Linux distros work. Debian has experimental, unstable, and stable for this very reason. Oct 20 15:12:46 jasta: true. im just saying, it might be a bit better to wait for that until the dev community grows a bit. Oct 20 15:12:56 tomgibara: maybe they move up based on ratings? Oct 20 15:13:10 google should say, market is not open yet Oct 20 15:13:15 and its open only to a few Oct 20 15:13:20 muthu: can't you just assume that? Oct 20 15:13:23 I am seeing the "lifestyle" section, for example, only having 3 apps. Oct 20 15:13:24 commonsguy: ratings from a pool of hardened testers who won't be scared when their phone locks up? Oct 20 15:13:35 muthu: why does it need to be said. I mean you can't use the market yet, so you know its not open. Oct 20 15:13:49 Dougie187: they had said, it would be open to all developers around launch Oct 20 15:13:51 tomgibara: more directly, ratings by whoever plays in "test" or "sandbox" or whatever the pre-Market is Oct 20 15:14:02 tomgibara: you don't actually need an authority to do this. you can rely on the developer's intuition to do it. force them to launch to the cooker repo first for a minimum of a week or something, then let them choose to push it to the main repo Oct 20 15:14:15 so if they push it too early and there are no reviews, it will just sit at the bottom and no one will find it Oct 20 15:14:18 :) Oct 20 15:14:23 muthu: so, around launch is when it will be open. you will know when it is open. and you even know that it will be open before launch. you just know around launch. Oct 20 15:15:00 you don't even know before launch. Oct 20 15:15:02 sorry thats what i meant. Oct 20 15:15:13 jasta: I like the idea, it's a model I'm comfortable with, I'm just trying to see how it would work in practice (whether there are any flaws). Oct 20 15:15:50 tomgibara: well, every design has flaws. this one is better than just letting devs push immediately to a main repository with no ability to test on a limited release first Oct 20 15:16:03 and also, you're pushing into the main repo with *no* reviews, and that makes it harder to get an uptake. Oct 20 15:16:22 pushing into a smaller repo of unstable/testing software will help you get exposure and some traction when you push into the main one too Oct 20 15:16:44 because any good market app is based on user feedback. if google fucks that up i will kill him Oct 20 15:16:47 kill them* :P Oct 20 15:16:51 no, i'll just kill sergey Oct 20 15:17:10 jasta: That's a bad idea. Oct 20 15:17:16 lol Oct 20 15:17:21 user feedback? Oct 20 15:17:23 killing sergey or his market idea? Oct 20 15:17:30 Dougie187: killing sergey is a bad idea. Oct 20 15:17:35 oh ok. Oct 20 15:17:57 Dougie187: (the repo thing sounds interesting. an "experimental" or "beta" tag for the regular market might be nice.) Oct 20 15:18:18 ttuttle: yes, and the default configuration of the market would be to exclude such apps Oct 20 15:18:20 jasta: you should work for google. Oct 20 15:18:28 whereas geekier folks could open up their market app to it Oct 20 15:18:28 well we all know google throws beta in front of everything Oct 20 15:18:31 and see whats out there Oct 20 15:18:44 Dougie187: you're right, then i could get even closer to Sergey *grin* Oct 20 15:18:50 lol Oct 20 15:18:59 definitely should mention that in your interview Oct 20 15:20:02 "So, why are you applying for a job at google?" Oct 20 15:20:22 "because I have a crush on Sergey, obviously!" Oct 20 15:20:27 of course, none of this matters if the market is based on user feedback and not google's opinion. Oct 20 15:20:52 if you recall, that was my condition which allowed Sergey to live :) Oct 20 15:20:58 lol Oct 20 15:21:26 the market app is full of user reviews and ratings. What's the question about it? Oct 20 15:21:52 benley: it wasn't a question really. we were just talking and i mentioned a model that assumed user reviews. Oct 20 15:21:55 the market you see when you run the emulator is not the 'real thing' exactly Oct 20 15:22:01 because, it is obvious. if you dont have user reviews then you suck Oct 20 15:22:10 benley: we dont see any market, btw. Oct 20 15:22:16 oh, lol Oct 20 15:22:38 perhaps I shouldn't discuss it :-P Oct 20 15:22:47 but while i have you, does google have a mechanism to arbitrarily spotlight certain apps that they like (independant of the community's opinion)? Oct 20 15:22:51 looks like benley is an nda clown. Oct 20 15:22:55 :) Oct 20 15:23:03 independent* Oct 20 15:23:17 I believe we should get a new emu, because a lot of apps like the market aren't on it Oct 20 15:24:03 benley: because that would be _bad_. nobody wants google abusing its partner relationships to force feed users apps when free/better alternatives can be found. Oct 20 15:24:06 jasta: there's 'featured' apps when I launch the market, no idea who decides that Oct 20 15:24:28 in fact, the very idea is infuriating and counters all claims of openness Oct 20 15:24:41 fork Oct 20 15:24:57 its just constant reassurance that if you try to topple one of their (or their partners') apps, you will be stopped. Oct 20 15:25:24 * benley doesn't know enough to give a useful answer Oct 20 15:25:26 hey, exactly like Apple's terms! Oct 20 15:25:32 unless you fork and offer a better device!! Oct 20 15:25:57 do it up Oct 20 15:26:40 jasta: isn't that what the kill switch is for? Oct 20 15:26:59 Dougie187: well, we don't know what the kill switch is for because we dont know the terms Oct 20 15:27:23 true Oct 20 15:27:34 seriously, if google pulls an apple, ...... Oct 20 15:27:45 yup, i'll just have to do it. i will kill sergey Oct 20 15:27:46 the carriers will force them to Oct 20 15:27:49 jasta, its obvious they will Oct 20 15:28:05 android might not live up to expectation Oct 20 15:28:21 the thing that strikes me as miserably stupid for them to copy Apple's poor decisions is that... Oct 20 15:28:32 I'm glad they fitted a kill switch, I think it's a sensible policy. We will see in time the terms they allow themselves to use it under. Oct 20 15:28:35 they dont have as good a product as apple. so they need to set themselves apart by better legalese Oct 20 15:28:40 Here are the term: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZDSVZUWpgo Oct 20 15:28:48 jasta, couldn't agree more Oct 20 15:29:04 tomgibara: it's a sensible feature, but it all depends on how sensible their terms are. Apple's are not sensible. Will Google copy them? Oct 20 15:29:20 why can't they just type them? Oct 20 15:29:40 jasta: I'm in agreement - I'm just not worrying until I see something to worry about in the terms Oct 20 15:29:42 good one Oct 20 15:29:42 Yeah, they are reading them, why not copy them. Copyright on the terms maybe :p Oct 20 15:29:51 yikes, i gotta get ready for work Oct 20 15:29:56 hehe Oct 20 15:30:06 The problem is that lawyers always like to enlarge the scope of clauses when it's in their client's favour. Oct 20 15:32:00 wtf Oct 20 15:32:10 you can't install 3rd party apps on a micro card? Oct 20 15:32:14 what good is that? Oct 20 15:32:27 michaelnovakjr_: kinda makes sense tho Oct 20 15:32:33 why Oct 20 15:32:34 if you swap cards, you lose apps? Oct 20 15:32:38 or they appear to break Oct 20 15:32:56 128mb onboard though? Oct 20 15:32:56 Yeah, but on internal memory you can install only so much apps. Oct 20 15:33:08 I have a lot of apps on my sd with my wimo device Oct 20 15:33:10 i thought it was 192? idk /me looks somewhere Oct 20 15:33:18 tell me why this is still an issue Oct 20 15:33:24 makes a very good case case for getting a 16GB card. Oct 20 15:33:31 apple has a hard drive in the iPhone..... why has no one else done this yet? Oct 20 15:33:35 muthu: just saw a video-review of your cookign capsules :) http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=W7KoU9OudPg N1 !!! Oct 20 15:33:38 im seeing 256 internal, 192mb ram Oct 20 15:33:39 because on my wimo device I have not enough internal memory to install apps to Oct 20 15:33:54 @ here http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html Oct 20 15:34:14 still 256 is not THAT much. Oct 20 15:34:15 they say rom, but its prolly flash if they do OTA updates Oct 20 15:34:16 You need to be memory/storage sensitive when designing your apps. Oct 20 15:34:25 plusminus_: how's it? Oct 20 15:34:25 * jasta waves his arms wildly Oct 20 15:34:27 no you dont :) Oct 20 15:34:40 lol @ flailing jasta Oct 20 15:34:51 jasta: Get to work! Oct 20 15:34:55 :) Oct 20 15:34:56 yes yes Oct 20 15:35:02 as I understand it, apps are in part protected by permissions bits on the filesystem... which you don't get on fat Oct 20 15:35:13 blount: excellent point Oct 20 15:35:18 i feel so ashamed i took wed off work. ill be so excited by android that i cant perform my daily function :) Oct 20 15:35:23 heh Oct 20 15:35:37 jasta: what excuse did you use? Oct 20 15:35:42 i was out sick last week for 3 days so don't feel i can take wed. off Oct 20 15:35:46 umdk1d3: i kinda told them the truth Oct 20 15:35:46 jasta: really? what the hell are you going to do the whole day ;) Oct 20 15:35:48 otherwise i'd have done so as well Oct 20 15:35:58 muthu: uhm, program most likely. Oct 20 15:36:07 jasta: What exactly were you waving your arms at? Oct 20 15:36:21 tomgibara: i designed my app to abuse the hell out of storage :) Oct 20 15:36:22 muthu: I like the video-thing ! Oct 20 15:36:25 blount: you can overlay permissions with bind mounts, userspace filesystems, etc. there's plenty of ways to run apps off fat. Oct 20 15:36:27 tomgibara: thats part of its feature set :) Oct 20 15:36:32 SD card storage yes Oct 20 15:36:36 plusminus_: glad you liked Oct 20 15:36:41 I think I have another must-have app :) Oct 20 15:37:02 ya, but you also want to be able to mount the filesystem directly off a pc Oct 20 15:37:10 video should load a lot faster than the review-guy said, when you are at home with wifi. Oct 20 15:37:26 I'm talking about the fact that (afaict) your apk get stored, plus your app uses memory, plus it may need to store additional sensitive data that can't go on the SDCard Oct 20 15:37:31 muthu: btw, is it free ? Oct 20 15:37:43 like ad-supported maybe? Oct 20 15:37:58 plusminus_: no idea, i'm not really active after p2 Oct 20 15:38:04 You need to consider all of these aspects in your design so that you don't squander the user's phone memory Oct 20 15:39:00 except how many actually did? Oct 20 15:39:42 I have Oct 20 15:39:45 not me man. Five really abuses ;) Oct 20 15:39:50 in all my apps Oct 20 15:39:59 * unix_lappy waits to find out whether the capacitive screen has multiple electrodes or only one under the hood... Oct 20 15:40:42 It's simple really, the user will be forced to choose: Do I have this one app, or four apps which are four times smaller? Oct 20 15:40:43 what does it mean? Oct 20 15:41:05 They will install larger apps, as long as they are good enough, or important enough. Oct 20 15:41:18 some games would have to be large Oct 20 15:41:25 jasta: I'd say a good music player will fall into that category Oct 20 15:41:26 i still can't believe they can't use a damn hard drive Oct 20 15:41:36 hard drive is bad Oct 20 15:41:42 I'm assuming its for speed of launching Oct 20 15:41:44 uhhh. Oct 20 15:41:47 an sdcard is better? Oct 20 15:41:55 ssd is better Oct 20 15:42:05 Can't have moving parts Oct 20 15:42:10 much faster access-times Oct 20 15:42:20 * tomgibara doesn't know much about the performance of phone hardware Oct 20 15:42:39 cbeust_: much less chance of destroying the storage when dropping your phone Oct 20 15:42:40 It's not just that, it's also for reliability Oct 20 15:42:41 battery Oct 20 15:42:46 (o)--(o) / -- \ \________/ _/ -- \_ / | | \ \/|\ /|\/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oct 20 15:42:51 fail Oct 20 15:42:57 lol Oct 20 15:42:58 ^^ Oct 20 15:42:59 Ok that was stupid, Terd Oct 20 15:43:05 Nobody can read that on irc Oct 20 15:43:15 we could if he did it right Oct 20 15:43:40 some irc-clients are intelligent enough to replace '\n' with multiple-sends Oct 20 15:43:45 Lol.. you could but my irc client sucks... Oct 20 15:43:46 ... some not Oct 20 15:43:57 Not for people who use proportional fonts, i.e. most clients Oct 20 15:44:10 lets see some ascii art :) Oct 20 15:44:31 anyone got ascii android ? Oct 20 15:44:47 muthu: was think the same... Oct 20 15:45:02 jeeze Oct 20 15:45:14 good clients use fixed-width fonts :] Oct 20 15:45:27 and waste horizontal space? no thanks Oct 20 15:46:38 do we ever talk about android development in here? Oct 20 15:46:51 what's android? Oct 20 15:46:52 ;) Oct 20 15:47:00 not surprised you don't know Oct 20 15:47:07 lol Oct 20 15:47:09 its only rumors in here Oct 20 15:47:11 michaelnovakjr_: im not much into robatics, nothanks Oct 20 15:47:16 haha Oct 20 15:47:21 robotics* Oct 20 15:49:47 hi Oct 20 15:52:24 when the emulator is startet out of eclipse, i always have to restart the emulator when im changing my program? Oct 20 15:52:44 nope Oct 20 15:52:57 just run it again Oct 20 15:53:12 from the emulator? Oct 20 15:53:23 eclipse Oct 20 15:54:02 when unit testing is there a way to automate user input? Oct 20 15:54:42 unix_lappy: you are prolly looking for acceptence tasting? android topic instrumentations Oct 20 15:54:49 MrSnowflake: oh, thats easy ;) thanks Oct 20 15:57:50 tric: looking at the description it's just a class to handle monitoring? Oct 20 15:59:01 unix_lappy: isn't that what the monkey is for? Oct 20 15:59:30 http://code.google.com/android/reference/monkey.html Oct 20 16:00:14 mrsnowfalke: well thats kinda brute force and no automated testing like unit tests Oct 20 16:00:23 ok Oct 20 16:02:28 Does FrameLayout support margins on multiple children? Oct 20 16:03:49 unix_lappy: maybe http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/08/android-instrumentation-example.html helps Oct 20 16:05:53 * jasta grins Oct 20 16:06:31 jasta: one of the first hits on a google search ;) Oct 20 16:07:16 ironically, i stopped using instrumentation because of serious bugs with it Oct 20 16:07:37 i have one case isolated (and a bug filed, which was ignored) which can reliably segfault my instrumentation process, thus aborting all my tests Oct 20 16:07:53 also, the MediaPlayer can't run in an instrumented context it seems Oct 20 16:07:58 so i cant test that stuff either Oct 20 16:09:46 tric: you've reminded me to update my blog :) Oct 20 16:09:54 i need to post about my StreamMediaPlayer class and StatefulListView as well Oct 20 16:10:14 the latter of which is a staple throughout Five :) Oct 20 16:15:20 jasta: what's the StreamMediaPlayer class? Oct 20 16:20:50 http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/20/retail-t-mobile-g1s-showing-up-in-loving-customers-hands/ Oct 20 16:22:01 where i can read something about playing own audiosamples on android? Oct 20 16:22:19 for a sequenzer application Oct 20 16:27:03 in manifest, we specify android:versionCode="1" Oct 20 16:27:16 how to get hold of this in code? Oct 20 16:27:27 muthu_: I was wondering that also Oct 20 16:28:26 yeah, looks like its not accessible Oct 20 16:29:06 ooh! rom dump http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=437703 Oct 20 16:29:51 jasta, someone's looking for klondike Oct 20 16:33:19 holy crap Oct 20 16:33:29 android could have XSS attacks Oct 20 16:33:42 i just realized im parsing stuff coming in through intent extras Oct 20 16:33:48 * umdk1d3 gets paranoid Oct 20 16:34:59 SanMehat: well for some lucky people its zero :P Oct 20 16:35:03 ups isnt perfect Oct 20 16:35:08 ;) Oct 20 16:39:15 moto's phone will have a slide out keyboard too: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2008/tc20081017_238719.htm Oct 20 16:39:23 lame Oct 20 16:42:47 yawn Oct 20 16:43:12 umdk1d3: ??? Oct 20 16:43:17 the noob at the xda link was looking for a klondike game jasta Oct 20 16:43:56 zhobbs: it's an encapsulated class which works out numerous MediaPlayer bugs and also exposes a new method setDataSource(RandomAccessStream) for arbitrarily feeding the MediaPlayer Oct 20 16:44:12 neat Oct 20 16:44:14 zhobbs: it neatly encapsulates my LocalHttpServer to do this. Oct 20 16:44:21 when are they going to announce the iphone style android phone. I don't care about moto's g1 clone. :-) Oct 20 16:44:34 jasta: how well does the local http server solution work? Oct 20 16:44:36 I want the sleek touch screen hardware Oct 20 16:44:44 zhobbs: well, i would say terribly because i'm a purist Oct 20 16:44:51 but practically, it performs just fine :) Oct 20 16:45:08 from the user's perspective it's fine then I guess? Oct 20 16:45:23 the real issue with the work-around that i have to use is that you get a lot of I/O. the mediaplayer itself has a read-ahead cache when streaming, and i am writing/reading on the sd card Oct 20 16:45:35 so it's a ton of I/O to choke on. devices, as it turns out, handle this pretty efficiently however. Oct 20 16:45:42 yeah, the user won't notice Oct 20 16:45:58 except that switching tracks is a little slower than you might expect Oct 20 16:46:06 (when they arent in the cache, that is) Oct 20 16:46:27 michaelnovakjr_: hehe, great. but mine isn't really usable yet :) Oct 20 16:47:10 zhobbs: http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/#svn/trunk/five-music/src/org/devtcg/five/music/util/streaming -- that's all the gist of how Five does its magic. Oct 20 16:47:28 http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-music/src/org/devtcg/five/music/activity/StreamMediaPlayerTest.java -- and here is my demo of this class working. Oct 20 16:48:05 nice Oct 20 16:48:29 it's pretty miserably inefficient by design, but i'm pleased with how tidy the API is at lesat. Oct 20 16:48:47 my hope was taht if someday magically the MediaPlayer stopped sucking so much i could just fit my StreamMediaPlayer to it nicely Oct 20 16:53:10 zhobbs: do note that my usage ignores the buffer listener, because it is useless Oct 20 16:55:07 jasta, not using gzip? Oct 20 16:55:18 uhm, for media files? Oct 20 16:59:42 jasta, that was a quick observation...save the files as gzip and then serve using Content-Encoding: gzip (saves disk space) Oct 20 17:00:11 You sure about that? :) Oct 20 17:00:40 andyross, like i said, haven't thought it thru :) i barely glanced at the code and something popped into my head Oct 20 17:01:00 Media formats are already compressed. They don't shrink when you gzip them. Oct 20 17:01:48 got it! Oct 20 17:02:06 jasta, can five stream across the internet? Do I have to be on my home network? Oct 20 17:02:49 Jasta, if Five the final name? Oct 20 17:03:29 jasta, why "five"? Oct 20 17:03:43 I meant to ask you that a while back Oct 20 17:05:45 jasta must have stepped out for a late lunch Oct 20 17:05:53 ? Oct 20 17:05:58 its only morning there :) Oct 20 17:06:09 evening here Oct 20 17:06:20 night here Oct 20 17:07:56 1am here Oct 20 17:10:12 1am is 1300 right? Oct 20 17:10:23 no Oct 20 17:10:31 0100 Oct 20 17:10:31 1300 is 1pm Oct 20 17:10:38 ok Oct 20 17:10:49 I always mix them up. We don't use them Oct 20 17:12:38 sorry, i was afk Oct 20 17:13:11 tethridge: uhm, five exclusively streams across the internet... Oct 20 17:13:24 that would be totally stupid if you had to be physically near all your music to get it ;) Oct 20 17:13:48 Cedric2: you don't like it? :) Oct 20 17:14:04 I agree, but I got that impression when I read the brief info you had on the google code site. Oct 20 17:14:15 well, maybe not stupid, but of little use. :-) Oct 20 17:14:45 jasta, so why did you pick "five"? Oct 20 17:15:02 i named it Five after the 80s classic film Short Circuit Oct 20 17:15:20 there's a scene in one of the movies in the series where Johnny Five is listening to music and trying to dance around... Oct 20 17:15:31 good movie Oct 20 17:16:21 well, it's _a_ movie. :) Oct 20 17:16:32 I was a kid when I watched it, so I loved it Oct 20 17:16:33 my gf had made me watch the original one days before i had heard about Android Oct 20 17:16:56 my five year old son loves it too. he's a big robot fan Oct 20 17:17:07 wanted to be "Asimo" for Halloween Oct 20 17:17:36 I had my wife talk him out of that. Building that costume gave me nightmares Oct 20 17:18:03 dims: also, you should realize that good compression is very expensive, so much so that it would instantly become a bottleneck of your design on a mobile device. Oct 20 17:18:25 gotcha! Oct 20 17:18:28 dims: generalized compression algorithms like gzip or pkzip will actually impose more overhead than just letting the radio download uncompressed data. Oct 20 17:19:05 this is why designs that involved, for example, compressed XML are laughably inefficient. i'd be surprised if you could even make that work at all on a mobile phone :) Oct 20 17:19:05 jasta what is the largest collection of music you have tested with? Oct 20 17:19:24 tethridge: my personal 75GB collection. Oct 20 17:19:38 how did it handle it? I have 125GB Oct 20 17:19:42 just fine Oct 20 17:19:44 thats its job Oct 20 17:19:52 it does work really well Oct 20 17:20:04 it takes ages and ages to do the initial sync right now because of a number of silly reasons i shall fix shortly Oct 20 17:20:05 well, I've yet to find a player for linux that doesn't choke a bit on that much music Oct 20 17:20:12 but other than that, it won't care how big your collection is Oct 20 17:20:22 amarok does ok with mysql as a backend. Oct 20 17:20:59 tethridge: 125GB is not that big. for instance, the most likely query you've got going on is to lookup artists and albums by id. Oct 20 17:21:37 the problem for me is searching Oct 20 17:21:40 so how many artists/albums do you suppose are unique in that collection? Oct 20 17:21:54 on most desktop clients, they try to do real time searching like itunes, but they don't use threading Oct 20 17:22:02 so it blocks after a few characters are typed Oct 20 17:22:08 ahh, well, Five is just gonna search by running a narrowed query Oct 20 17:22:17 and because ListView is so tidy, this will be quite efficient. Oct 20 17:22:31 a binary search of several thousand records is not too slow for even a phone. Oct 20 17:22:41 have you uploaded any new changed jasta? Oct 20 17:22:53 Dougie187: lots. playlist support is in, tons of UI changes (added menu buttons on a lot of screens) Oct 20 17:23:02 nice. Oct 20 17:23:05 i may have to check it out Oct 20 17:23:52 tethridge: but as i said, right now the initial sync process is terribly slow. i have a couple of plans to fix this, but i just odnt have the energy for it right now. Oct 20 17:24:11 one of the biggest problems with sync that i've identified recently, however, is the pathetic ContentProvider abstraction. it simply cannot be used during sync. Oct 20 17:24:20 well, it sounds like I'll definitely be using it as soon as I get an android phone Oct 20 17:24:23 so i need to figure out another way to get direct access to my sqlite3 db to build it during sync Oct 20 17:25:04 I had planned to use my web front end to stream my music to my phone via jinzora Oct 20 17:25:19 five will certainly do a lot better than that Oct 20 17:25:35 tethridge: five copies all your music meta data to a local database. it only has to access the network to stream. Oct 20 17:25:56 so in this way, the UI is very responsive. you're never waiting on network traffic. Oct 20 17:26:00 how large is your metadata for 75GB of music? Oct 20 17:26:23 the sqlite3 db is about 2MB (which contains only text), the cached album artowkr is...erm, about 150MB Oct 20 17:26:26 on the sdcard Oct 20 17:26:52 i havent loaded up the full collection in a little while, admittedly. i use a 6GB collection for testing Oct 20 17:27:06 jasta: wouldnt it be easier to just setup a local webserver on the box with the collection to grab artwork? Oct 20 17:27:27 unix_lappy: five is a webserver, and it does serve artwork. Oct 20 17:27:37 ahhh. now it makes sense. Oct 20 17:28:04 i thought it was a simple iTunes remove. Oct 20 17:28:06 remote* Oct 20 17:28:10 five is broken into two parts, one is a server you run on your home PC. it does all the heavy lifting for the database and serving content. you then install the android client and connect it over the internet. Oct 20 17:28:37 the android client syncs with the server periodically to get updates to content (only updates are sent). but this is only for meta data. Oct 20 17:28:47 when you want to play audio, it streams and cached to the phones sdcard Oct 20 17:28:51 i haven't tested this, but how difficult is it for a home user to setup their own server and add music to it? Oct 20 17:28:53 so, ideally, Five would gobble up all the space on your SD card. Oct 20 17:28:59 to become more efficient at playback Oct 20 17:29:20 Dougie187: very easy, they just point the server at the folder(s) they want to use. five-server watches them for changes automagically Oct 20 17:29:21 languish, get your G1? Oct 20 17:29:32 cool Oct 20 17:30:05 it needs more work though, the UI should have some more options and UPnP isnt supported yet Oct 20 17:30:11 working on it :) Oct 20 17:30:12 UPnP is a big deal to support for 1.0 Oct 20 17:30:26 michaelnovakjr_: hmm? Oct 20 17:30:38 at least the ports for now Oct 20 17:30:47 ahh, well, UPnP needs to be in there too hehe Oct 20 17:30:52 indeed Oct 20 17:31:01 that is on my list of things to do Oct 20 17:31:45 excellent. a small suggestion, i think we should use libupnp if it's portable. Oct 20 17:32:04 Android Rap Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bk9aImCTqE Oct 20 17:32:17 it's a pretty robust library written by Intel Oct 20 17:32:36 yea, that is what i plan to use Oct 20 17:33:31 heh Oct 20 17:36:48 lol Oct 20 17:37:00 wow, that android rap song, as cheasy as it is sounds like someone put lots of work into it Oct 20 17:38:18 that rap song was pretty good Oct 20 17:49:13 i did it Oct 20 17:49:15 ;) Oct 20 17:49:18 hehe Oct 20 17:49:23 it was very cheesy Oct 20 17:49:33 it was just supposed to be entertaining, funny and laughable Oct 20 17:49:50 Rob-cs, FTW! Oct 20 17:49:53 its funny how many people take it too seriously and tell me I'm "never going to make it big" and stuff haha Oct 20 17:50:10 anyways, glad you guys liked it Oct 20 17:50:17 if it made you smirk, it did its work Oct 20 17:52:36 Rob-cs: hahaha nice Oct 20 17:52:53 Rob-cs: hahaha nice Oct 20 17:54:26 so how many of you have the G1? Oct 20 17:54:41 aside of the OS, how's the phone itself? Oct 20 17:56:01 i love it Oct 20 17:56:09 you can see a crap load of reviews i have done on it Oct 20 17:56:17 http://youtube.com/mobileroar Oct 20 17:56:33 the combination of the keyboard, trackball and touchscreen is just so freaking flexible Oct 20 17:56:42 not having an onscreen qwerty can be irritating sometimes Oct 20 17:56:49 but i think the phone is pretty darn amazing Oct 20 17:57:16 Speaking of rap, it seems that there are also opportunities for android developers who can show off some dance moves: http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=76140423&JobTitle=Software+Engineer+-+Google+Android+Applications&q=android+motorola&brd=1&cy=US&vw=b&AVSDM=2008-09-26+15%3a53%3a00&pg=1&seq=1 Oct 20 17:57:26 Rob-cs: i hope they do develop an osk at some point soon Oct 20 17:58:02 * Disconnect is gonna have to whip up a numeric input method before this app is gonna be useful (at least for me) :( Oct 20 17:58:13 there are 2-3 screens where its just not worthwhile to open the phone Oct 20 17:58:22 stadlero: no longer available. Oct 20 17:58:39 yeah... Oct 20 17:58:44 if you're searching for "dog" on google Oct 20 17:58:49 Wow. My apologies. That seems to have been pulled down about 1 minute ago. Oct 20 17:58:50 Rob-cs: how often does that nav panel get in the way of the keyboard? Oct 20 17:58:52 or trying to type in your username/password Oct 20 17:59:00 the nav panel never gets in my way Oct 20 17:59:03 i don't see why people complain Oct 20 17:59:10 what nav panel? Oct 20 17:59:17 he means the chin Oct 20 17:59:20 the "chin" Oct 20 17:59:23 oh Oct 20 17:59:24 Rob-cs: it gets in the way if you have headphones/usb plugged in Oct 20 17:59:32 i dont have huge hands either Oct 20 17:59:33 make a general purpose keyboard app that other apps can call Oct 20 17:59:39 so you can just call the generic keyboard activity Oct 20 17:59:42 there should be an intent maybe Oct 20 17:59:46 and the keyboard isnt as big as the voyager, which i have now and love Oct 20 17:59:59 but i'll gladly give up a little keyboard real estate to fit in those dedicated keys Oct 20 18:00:13 zhobbs: argh, we need A2DP! :) Oct 20 18:00:13 its all a trade off and i think the G1 offers a very nice balance and flexibility Oct 20 18:00:14 G1 is getting more and more attractive as new details come in. Oct 20 18:00:38 wastrel: thats what i'm thinking i'll have to do. haven't gotten deep into it yet tho. if i code it it'll just be a Label: TextEdit on top, 0-9 [.] [<-] below Oct 20 18:01:01 jasta: none of these will actually work right? http://store.androidcommunity.com/content/accessories/73-136.htm Oct 20 18:01:07 * Disconnect would rather someone else dealt with it :) Oct 20 18:01:30 zhobbs: that store is such a joke Oct 20 18:01:33 zhobbs: no. Oct 20 18:01:53 "look its a huge list of random phone accessories. FOR THE G1! (except when they aren't)" Oct 20 18:01:58 zhobbs: A2DP is the stereo bluetooth profile, and it is not supported because Android 1.0 doesn't have software support for it Oct 20 18:01:59 wastrel: the problem with having an intent to do that is the application will have to invoke it manually...it really should be Android that decides when it's necassary.... Oct 20 18:02:02 vincent nguyen runs that site Oct 20 18:02:11 he has been a real dick to me in the past for no reason Oct 20 18:02:15 man... they are going to get lots of complaints come wednesday Oct 20 18:02:19 wastrel: so we need to mod the framework's TextView to get it to work globally Oct 20 18:03:03 man, this channel is going to change radically in 2 days time :) Oct 20 18:03:07 who wants to write a guest post on phandroid on how android community's accessories won't work with your G1? hahahahaha Oct 20 18:03:15 yeah it will Oct 20 18:03:16 so the choice is, make app developers support it or make users patch Oct 20 18:03:19 :] Oct 20 18:03:21 you all should plan a new, secret channel Oct 20 18:03:27 to escape the newbs who pour in Oct 20 18:03:29 hehe Oct 20 18:03:40 jasta: you're going to be the first to come out with a2dp support/ Oct 20 18:03:42 i'm sure you'll leave me in the dust too.. which is okay and i understand :) Oct 20 18:04:05 maybe there should be an #android-dev channel as well, it'll really be too bad, i learn from just reading the logs in this channel right now Oct 20 18:04:08 someone did. ##tmobile-g1 .. its full of (well, 5) non-coders who just got the news a few days ago :) Oct 20 18:04:21 jasta, like the channel hasn't already :) Oct 20 18:04:38 and there was #android-dev as well. and there was only like 5 people in there for 3 days and then noone went anymore Oct 20 18:04:42 or android-devs Oct 20 18:04:46 i don't even remember Oct 20 18:05:09 :/ Oct 20 18:05:12 michaelnovakj_: it depends on who your talking to at any given time. Oct 20 18:05:17 sometimes its not bat. Oct 20 18:05:19 bad* Oct 20 18:05:36 who all got their g1 today? Oct 20 18:05:40 I think we'll see some new projects popup once linux geeks start buying the G1 Oct 20 18:05:41 we need a channel homepage witha list of regulars/lunatics Oct 20 18:06:00 lol f00f- Oct 20 18:06:00 and regular lunatics. Oct 20 18:06:21 or channel idiots. Oct 20 18:06:31 and people we should ban Oct 20 18:06:39 * DarkriftX hides Oct 20 18:06:51 michaelnovakj_: that list would just be the union of the idots and the lunatics Oct 20 18:06:56 :) Oct 20 18:06:59 :D Oct 20 18:09:31 time for me to get ready for lab. Oct 20 18:09:41 talk to you guys later. have fun setting up a banned list. Oct 20 18:11:58 The Android team hard at work: http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000499.html Oct 20 18:16:03 jasta: the channel already changed alot since last month. there was alot more talk about developing. same with those google groups. Oct 20 18:16:29 http://www.digthewig08.com/ Oct 20 18:16:51 tric: well before that there was no talk of developing, because the SDK was private. Oct 20 18:16:56 and we were all fucking pissed Oct 20 18:17:41 Cedric2: haha, jason's like, "HEY! i madez miz a rob0tz!" Oct 20 18:17:49 http://picasaweb.google.com/cbeust/AndroidRobotAtGoogle#5259295322987555986 Oct 20 18:18:47 nice droid Oct 20 18:19:05 i'm using one of the android wallpapers on my computer :] Oct 20 18:19:20 tric, what irc channel are you in? Oct 20 18:19:29 there's very little development talk in here Oct 20 18:20:07 well i sometimes talk Oct 20 18:20:08 :) Oct 20 18:20:12 :) Oct 20 18:20:53 yeah...used to be a dev channel...now we just talk about touchscreens, headphone jacks and application distribution Oct 20 18:21:18 and lemonade and coffee sometimes Oct 20 18:21:34 you could change that by talking about dev stuff isntead of talking about what everyone talks about Oct 20 18:21:36 lol Oct 20 18:21:50 hardly Oct 20 18:22:55 i'm trying to stream video with vlc and wath with android through multicast Oct 20 18:23:15 someone can help me? Oct 20 18:23:28 why is TuneWiki starting up on boot?? Oct 20 18:23:38 haha Oct 20 18:24:09 romainguy_: it receives the MediaStore's SCAN_COMPLETE intent... Oct 20 18:24:25 ah ok then :) Oct 20 18:24:53 yeah, I guess MediaStore scans on boot Oct 20 18:25:00 it does Oct 20 18:25:09 romainguy_: I came across this today... in between my app changing orientation, the home app becomes visible and looks like this: http://www.tomgibara.com/tmp/home-bad.png Oct 20 18:26:21 yikes. a ping background, that is bad. Oct 20 18:26:37 unix_infidel: don't go there... Oct 20 18:26:51 * Disconnect was wondering about hte pink too Oct 20 18:26:55 tomgibara: why are you using the wallpaper you hate? Oct 20 18:26:59 http://picasaweb.google.com/burke.eric/AndroidG2# Oct 20 18:26:59 I want to make sure my app suits all tastes Oct 20 18:27:19 I just happened to be testing it against the pink at that time Oct 20 18:27:40 don't ask, don't tell. :-) Oct 20 18:28:25 Actually, I was working on a mac last night, and I conceed that the pink looked more pleasant (a little) Oct 20 18:28:33 Cedric2: http://picasaweb.google.com/cbeust/AndroidRobotAtGoogle Oct 20 18:28:45 Cedric2: nevermind, that was stupid to paste Oct 20 18:28:54 * benley got that url from this channel to begin with! Oct 20 18:29:05 lol Oct 20 18:29:12 benley: you have too much time :) Oct 20 18:29:38 if I wasn't twiddering around on irc all day I'd be deficient in my job duties :) Oct 20 18:29:47 hehe Oct 20 18:29:56 (srsly, my team uses irc pretty heavily) Oct 20 18:30:45 Sorry I thought I had pasted the direct link to the album Oct 20 18:30:50 thanks for reposting it Oct 20 18:31:01 I didn't mean to do blogspamming :) Oct 20 18:31:28 romainguy_: So is that a known bug, or do I need to hunt out a testcase? Oct 20 18:31:56 no idea Oct 20 18:31:59 file a bug Oct 20 18:34:12 I also ran into a problem that *might* be associated with TransitionDrawable... Oct 20 18:34:32 This is my app with focus on the textbox: http://www.tomgibara.com/tmp/before.png Oct 20 18:35:04 then I press up to move focus to the image view above: http://www.tomgibara.com/tmp/after.png Oct 20 18:35:20 That black rectangle isn't mine Oct 20 18:35:35 I'm guessing it's something to do with the drawing cache Oct 20 18:37:20 (a TransitionDrawable was added to the translucent box containing the text, prior to me spotting this bug, I don't know if it's related) Oct 20 18:44:46 Hey, anyone get their G1 yet? Oct 20 18:45:30 mine sat in KY for 4 days, and is finally driving cross-country (in PA at the moment) .. if it gets to MD in time I'll prolly have ups hold it and just pick it up after work Oct 20 18:52:30 * benley looks forward to seeing people use these thing ostentatiously in bars and such Oct 20 18:52:34 heh Oct 20 18:52:36 bnovc: heh Oct 20 18:52:36 er Oct 20 18:52:37 benley: heh Oct 20 18:52:43 benley: I'm on it ;-) Oct 20 18:52:46 heh Oct 20 18:52:55 * ttuttle switches to SSHING FROM HIS AWESOME T-MOBILE G1. Oct 20 18:52:59 * Disconnect is famous for doing that @ duclaw.com (but its e90, n800, etc rather than iphone etc..) Oct 20 18:53:01 NOTE THE KEYBOARD, iPHONE LUSERS! Oct 20 18:53:15 Note: the above was (mostly) sarcastic. Oct 20 18:53:19 ttuttle: don't need a keyboard :) Oct 20 18:53:20 wow it even has a capslock key. that'll raise the stupid bar.. Oct 20 18:53:23 its onscreen Oct 20 18:53:43 and i can type just as fast on it as a physical keyboard Oct 20 18:53:46 :) Oct 20 18:53:50 Disconnect: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL! Oct 20 18:53:51 an onscreen capslock key? win! Oct 20 18:54:11 benley: fail Oct 20 18:54:14 ttuttle: :\ Oct 20 18:54:14 capslock isn't new guys Oct 20 18:54:19 :) Oct 20 18:54:27 but capslock on a cellphone? you could patent that shit! Oct 20 18:54:35 uh, i can do it on my phone :) Oct 20 18:54:43 "X has been around for 20 years. This patent is for X *ON A CELLPHONE!*" Oct 20 18:54:45 and just about every phone i've every had with a keyboard Oct 20 18:54:52 ever* Oct 20 18:54:59 * bnovc added capslock to the cell phone keyboard he was coding on last month Oct 20 18:55:04 * andyross wonders how long it will be until someone posts a hack for mapping the G1's capslock key to ctrl. Oct 20 18:55:26 * benley looks at the g1 keyboard and wonders what key andyross thinks is capslock Oct 20 18:55:39 It was a joke. Oct 20 18:55:40 andyross: capslock = shift, shift Oct 20 18:55:42 heh Oct 20 18:55:49 :) Oct 20 18:55:58 * unix_infidel wonders how many people are irc-ing on their android phone. Oct 20 18:56:06 oh, so i resurrected an old DEC workstation yesterday. Oct 20 18:56:16 Alpha processors are fast! Oct 20 18:56:16 ttuttle: wow, you really do have too much free time Oct 20 18:56:35 is it an ev67? Oct 20 18:56:35 benley: i have a kernel to writw, but i was bored Oct 20 18:56:43 benley: nah, ev56 Oct 20 18:56:54 * Disconnect has an old decstation with netbsd on it. ports 'make index' was on day 35 when the power went out and i didn't have the heart to start over. Oct 20 18:57:12 it's a digital personal workstation 433au. 768mb ram! Oct 20 18:57:16 woo hoo Oct 20 18:57:18 Disconnect: :-( Oct 20 18:57:23 want it? Oct 20 18:57:35 you need to change your name from disconnect Oct 20 18:57:43 every time you talk i think my computer effed up Oct 20 18:57:45 Disconnect: if you're in pittsburgh, let me know. Oct 20 18:57:48 /nick +++ATH Oct 20 18:57:57 benley++ Oct 20 18:58:15 brb Oct 20 18:59:36 ttuttle: just outside DC Oct 20 19:00:47 Disconnect: hmm. i don't have much space in my apartment at school, and my parents will kill me if i bring more boxen home. Oct 20 19:01:04 ttuttle: solution: get space in some lab at school :) Oct 20 19:01:13 but lemme know if you are at all interested, otherwise it goes out for recycling next week. (buddy has a pickup and makes a few bucks off filling it with crap. i have crap like 20" fixed-freq sun CRTs and a decstation and such. win-win. :) ..) Oct 20 19:01:27 lol set it up in the mac lab, see who notices Oct 20 19:01:30 do you ship Oct 20 19:03:51 not willingly Oct 20 19:04:06 small stuff sure, but its not worth the effort to ship a 30-40lb monitor Oct 20 19:23:22 somebody worked with muticast? Oct 20 19:23:44 cute. http://androidcommunity.com/google-removes-applications-just-before-launch-20081020/ Oct 20 19:29:17 Disconnect: yikes. I know some guys who are going to be PISSED. Oct 20 19:29:45 you mean like everyone? :) Oct 20 19:29:58 lol yea and those guys. Oct 20 19:31:32 its official, i won't get mine till tomorrow. left new scranton at 3pm for what google maps calls a 4 hour drive. pickup @ the destination ends at 7. so .. ohwell. Oct 20 19:35:33 most of the apps didn't have the proper meta-data or were signed with the debug key still.. Oct 20 19:40:38 jasonlee: sorry to hear :-( Oct 20 19:41:03 seems like that will be easy to fix and re-add. Oct 20 19:44:00 why i cant start this application on the emulator? http://nopaste.org/p/aObCTZYNeb Oct 20 19:45:37 the Application Test has stopped unexpectedly... Oct 20 19:45:48 check the log Oct 20 19:45:55 in eclipse? Oct 20 19:45:57 Oh Oct 20 19:46:08 ediaPlayer mp = MediaPlayer.create(THIS, R.raw.sound) Oct 20 19:46:31 An activity is also a context. Oct 20 19:46:42 tryed that also... Oct 20 19:46:52 then check the logcat, that's what it's for Oct 20 19:47:02 you should pastebin your logcat if its runtime Oct 20 19:47:25 dmoffet: yeah, we just re-submitted ShopSavvy.. Oct 20 19:49:31 oinkboink: you should pastebin your logcat if its a runtime issue Oct 20 19:51:19 FileNotFoundException Oct 20 19:52:21 its a .wav file located in res/raw/ Oct 20 19:54:27 can you pastebin the logcat? Oct 20 19:57:18 Anyone with a G1 know if ANDROID_ID is reliably set? Oct 20 19:58:09 http://nopaste.org/p/a8fvN7ucn Oct 20 19:58:10 .... Oct 20 19:58:39 oinkboink: it doesn't like your file Oct 20 19:59:04 it doesnt like .wav generally? Oct 20 19:59:06 what's this? File res/raw/sound from drawable resource ID Oct 20 19:59:10 howdy, is the emulator worky to query a real server of my own? Oct 20 19:59:14 drawable != raw! Oct 20 19:59:45 where do you see a drawable? Oct 20 20:00:15 E/AndroidRuntime( 296): java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to start activity Co Oct 20 20:00:15 mponentInfo{org.test/org.test.Test}: android.content.res.Resources$NotFoundExcep Oct 20 20:00:15 tion: File res/raw/sound from drawable resource ID #0x7f040000 Oct 20 20:00:26 maybe i have to set permissions in the xml-file? Oct 20 20:01:15 * greudin is sad Oct 20 20:02:39 http://gizmodo.com/5063778/mophie-juice-pack-for-iphone-3g-lightning-review-it-doubles-the-power Oct 20 20:02:56 hopefully they come out with one for the G1. Oct 20 20:04:00 oinkboink: why not try playing a file Oct 20 20:04:31 i haven't messed with the MediaPlayer, but from reading docs it seems to be another way Oct 20 20:04:51 * greudin is sad Oct 20 20:05:00 greudin: you said that already Oct 20 20:05:18 Disconnect, thank you Oct 20 20:06:24 Disconnect: He must be very sad. Oct 20 20:06:33 clearly Oct 20 20:06:38 * vinse comforts greudin Oct 20 20:07:31 btw. theres a way to use adb out of eclipse? Oct 20 20:07:43 yes there is: tools\adb logcat Oct 20 20:08:03 oinkboink: yes Oct 20 20:08:46 howdy, is the emulator worky to query a real server of my own? Oct 20 20:09:03 what do you mean by real server? Oct 20 20:09:13 what is worky? Oct 20 20:09:28 if you mean connect to a server somewhere then yes Oct 20 20:09:30 ... :s Oct 20 20:10:10 a server Oct 20 20:10:24 what kind of server? what are you trying to achieve? Oct 20 20:10:25 ok it means emulator can reach a server Oct 20 20:10:45 you can surf on the emu, so why not connect to another non http server?! Oct 20 20:10:47 just asking Oct 20 20:11:11 * greudin did only the hello world app Oct 20 20:11:17 i've written an app that communicates with an app server Oct 20 20:11:43 it is possible Oct 20 20:13:53 andyross: capslock = shift, shift Oct 20 20:13:55 ok Oct 20 20:14:04 * languish wonder how many people will see that and hold down BOTH shift keys Oct 20 20:14:08 :/ Oct 20 20:14:12 +s Oct 20 20:17:21 and what that means? ...File res/raw/sound from drawable resource ID #0x7f040000 Oct 20 20:19:44 oinkboink: try playing a file Oct 20 20:19:47 setDataSource Oct 20 20:26:27 How can an activity discover the dimensions of a view, after it's layed-out but before it's visible? Oct 20 20:26:31 Is it even possible? Oct 20 20:26:51 yes Oct 20 20:26:55 you can use onSizeChanged Oct 20 20:27:00 or a ViewTreeListener Oct 20 20:27:21 I don't remember if onStart() is called before draw or before layout Oct 20 20:27:28 I tried to get a ViewTreeListener in onCreate and thought I got null back Oct 20 20:28:01 in 1.0?? Oct 20 20:28:32 yes, but looking at my code, maybe I've got the wrong thing: I tried: overlay.getViewTreeObserver() Oct 20 20:28:39 (overlay is my view) Oct 20 20:28:56 argh yes ViewTreeObserver, not listener Oct 20 20:30:53 does setImageResource "cache" the resources it loads? Oct 20 20:31:12 what you mean by cache? Oct 20 20:31:30 my listview is chunky, and im wondering if its becasue i do that in getView() Oct 20 20:31:33 romainguy__: sorry, my bug Oct 20 20:31:40 umdk1d3: it doesn't cache Oct 20 20:31:43 umdk1d3: your fault :) Oct 20 20:31:54 lol Oct 20 20:32:08 wow, people are really spazzing out in these comments: http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/426743584/google-takes-down-applications-from-marketplace-world-gets-weird-deja-vu Oct 20 20:35:00 yay its fast now ^.^ Oct 20 20:36:43 13 apps o_O Oct 20 20:36:48 I'd be disappointed Oct 20 20:38:03 plusminus_: the market isnt open for developers yet tho Oct 20 20:38:32 umdk1d3: that's a real good excuse... There are customer who received their G1 already Oct 20 20:39:26 but the official launch date isn't until the 22nd Oct 20 20:39:33 some people are just lucky Oct 20 20:40:29 also not working http://nopaste.org/p/adtK3icwnb Oct 20 20:40:51 oinkboink: you dont get "C:\" Oct 20 20:41:01 rofl Oct 20 20:41:04 might look at putting the wav in your res/raw folder Oct 20 20:41:10 plusminus_: 43 apps here: http://andappstore.com/AndroidPhoneApplications/apps/!list Oct 20 20:41:11 then opening via resource stream Oct 20 20:41:21 yes Oct 20 20:41:26 c:/ will definitely not work Oct 20 20:41:31 jt436: I know, but their Android experience has started already Oct 20 20:41:35 muthu_: maybe 1% is aware of andappstore and slidme.org ;( Oct 20 20:41:44 yea plusminus_ agreed Oct 20 20:41:53 its be a bit of a rocky launch Oct 20 20:41:58 with this whole pre-order business Oct 20 20:42:01 plusminus_: yeah, wonder how many are trying andappstore and slideme Oct 20 20:42:11 probably not many Oct 20 20:42:16 hmm Oct 20 20:42:32 we'll see :/ Oct 20 20:42:36 g2g bye guys Oct 20 20:43:06 I think G1 users will know about slidme and such, because the early adaptors for android are most likely a bit tech savvy Oct 20 20:43:40 Question, how to factory reset G1? Oct 20 20:43:43 lala Oct 20 20:43:58 languish: isn't it in the manual? Oct 20 20:44:00 you guys mean slideme.org not slidme right? Oct 20 20:44:13 seen 3 people say slidme so far Oct 20 20:44:14 ys Oct 20 20:44:21 romainguy, it may be, I haven't got the manual with me atm, let alone my G1. Oct 20 20:44:24 i don't even know slidme, I had a typo going on Oct 20 20:53:19 Arrrgghh Oct 20 20:53:22 G1 arrived, but promised wife I would wait for her to open them Oct 20 20:53:35 having a geekchic is awesome, except in these circumstance :| Oct 20 20:53:41 hahahahah Oct 20 20:53:41 haha Oct 20 20:53:45 +s Oct 20 20:54:06 i put in my order today, let's see how it goes Oct 20 20:54:12 lol Oct 20 20:54:31 why didn't you just hit up a tmo store manager to get one on wed? Oct 20 20:54:53 or you mean backchannel order as a dev Oct 20 20:55:35 friend is saying his boss is raking in the cash accepting bribes to hold g1's for people Oct 20 20:55:53 he's up 2 grand Oct 20 20:55:55 :| Oct 20 20:56:16 wtf? Oct 20 20:56:50 knowing his boss, he won;t even bother to hold them Oct 20 20:57:03 "the truck never came" Oct 20 20:57:04 heh, for exactly that reason :P Oct 20 20:57:05 hmm, is motorola is releasing an Android phone q2 fiscal or calendar year 09? Oct 20 20:57:12 f00f-, lol Oct 20 20:57:38 f00f-, this guy is an exceptional scumbag, even for a sales guy Oct 20 20:59:08 unix_infidel, a companies fiscal year can wifely vary, so it's likely calendar year, though don't expect them to hit the target date Oct 20 20:59:19 *wdely vary Oct 20 20:59:21 ugh Oct 20 21:00:45 languish: yea, giving me more and more incentive to get a G1. Oct 20 21:00:50 :D Oct 20 21:01:22 well, I see the G1 as a temp device anyway. 6 to 8 months and I'll be picking up something new. likely a new android device, but we'll see what's out then. Oct 20 21:01:48 I'm hpoing for a revision to the touch pro, android style Oct 20 21:02:19 Greetings. Will Android be supporting Adobe's Flash Player client, at least on the upcoming T-Mobile G1? Oct 20 21:02:41 meh, I've deduced the Touch Pro has a lot of the same flaws as the G1, just looks prettier. Oct 20 21:02:46 and costs more. Oct 20 21:03:06 unix_infidel, yep. but it has a "flash" such as it is, and I like the keyboard better Oct 20 21:03:16 and so pretty, so very very pretty Oct 20 21:03:18 :| Oct 20 21:04:20 the lack of led flash for the G1 really throws me off Oct 20 21:05:14 any cellphone camera throws me off, with or without led Oct 20 21:05:20 I am wondering if Android will be supporting Flash Player content, and, if not, then what will Google be doing to make their every-popular YouTube content available to those platforms. Oct 20 21:05:36 m-c-: they don't need flash for it Oct 20 21:05:50 i wouldn't worry about youtube support Oct 20 21:05:53 How does google not need flash for it? Oct 20 21:05:56 m-c-, there is a youtube video player already Oct 20 21:06:02 for the G1 Oct 20 21:06:03 look at the iPhone Oct 20 21:06:07 it has a playe Oct 20 21:06:07 r Oct 20 21:06:17 My understanding is the iPhone does not have flash player support. Oct 20 21:06:21 Youtube just serves static files. You need a player for VP6 and a parser for the .flv format. You don't need the actual flash applet. Oct 20 21:06:30 dude, it has youtube support, not flash Oct 20 21:06:35 youtube != flash Oct 20 21:06:48 okay .... I get that much, but how is it made accessible? Oct 20 21:06:59 with an app Oct 20 21:07:00 (To be fair: in discussions about "killer applications" on the web, youtube most certainly == flash. But that's about a different subject) Oct 20 21:07:20 Is it a Totem media player type interface that accesses the FLV file directly? Oct 20 21:07:20 how does youtube == flash? Oct 20 21:07:40 calm down Oct 20 21:07:42 andyross, not really. I use vlc player to view youtube flv's Oct 20 21:08:05 well, most youtube content is accessible over RTSP streams Oct 20 21:08:12 The point being that to first approximation, the only reason anyone bothers with flash is for youtube videos. It's the killer application that took a cute (but terribly overused) interactive graphics format and turned it into a must have for modern web surfing. Oct 20 21:08:26 that's how the youtube for java me client works, i thought Oct 20 21:08:36 i was dependent on flash long before youtube came around Oct 20 21:08:45 (just saying) Oct 20 21:08:49 andyross, that approximation is flawed Oct 20 21:09:01 flash was well received for a variety of things before youtube Oct 20 21:09:18 yawn Oct 20 21:09:22 Movie sites. Meh. Not an argument worth having. Oct 20 21:09:31 So since this is a Google developed platform, I figured they would not exclude access to YouTube (their own video sharing site). I am very curious how they make it accessible without Flash Player. Oct 20 21:10:02 m-c-: there's a YouTube application Oct 20 21:10:07 m-c it could be another format that they serve to antroid phones that connect with the correct device ID Oct 20 21:10:08 I would love to see Android compel Google to make YouTube videos available in a more open format, specifiically Ogg/Theora. Oct 20 21:10:10 and when you click a YouTube link, you can open it in the YouTube app instead of the browser Oct 20 21:10:16 m-c-: Again, it's not hard. Even if you don't have access to youtube's internal metadata, just parse the HTML page, find the FLV parameter (there are hacks on the web to let you do this), and download the file and play it. Oct 20 21:10:28 indeed Oct 20 21:11:13 m-c-, put it this way.. flash is used as a viewing application for youtube videos. Other applications can do the same. the G1 has one of those. Oct 20 21:12:19 andyross, Yes, agreed that it is not hard to directly link to the FLV file within the YouTube page. Firefox plugins like VideoDownloader make that obvious. But much of the YouTube service is the web information that surrounds the video (recommendations, login, preferences, and ADVERTISING). Surely Google will not be eliminating all this in favor for directly accessing the FLV in a media player? Oct 20 21:12:45 of course Oct 20 21:12:51 it's in their best interest to keep the associated features Oct 20 21:13:07 absolutely Oct 20 21:13:12 the ADVERTISING IS KEY Oct 20 21:13:20 without that.... youtube is..... Oct 20 21:13:54 has anyone played with the youtube application on the device yet? I did not see any ads on the demo version i was playing with today Oct 20 21:14:02 m-c-: But all that information is, likewise, on the page. Even if you weren't google (and youtube *is* google) you'd be able to write that application. Oct 20 21:15:03 andyross, so, you suspect (or know) that Android will have an application to view YouTube content that will include the web services that are also on the YouTube web pages? Oct 20 21:15:41 No me, certainly. My phone doesn't get delivered until tomorrow. But certainly if you want to follow the comments on a video or whatever, you can do that with the existing browser. Oct 20 21:15:52 m-c-: there is a YouTube application Oct 20 21:16:26 romainguy, but will that YouTube Application support the rest of the YouTube.com web services, that I listed above? Oct 20 21:17:58 wow, talk about one track mind. Oct 20 21:18:05 haha Oct 20 21:18:07 m-c-, go to a t-mobile store and see for yourself Oct 20 21:18:52 or come back here later on, and I'll tell you Oct 20 21:19:06 to go to a t-mobile store and see for yourself. Oct 20 21:19:30 Are G1's in stores yet? I thought it was still early-access only. Oct 20 21:19:51 store reps have them, and demo's should be out Oct 20 21:20:08 22nd Oct 20 21:20:10 wednesday Oct 20 21:20:13 is the retail sales day Oct 20 21:20:33 languish, i demo'd the handset in store today and they did have a player (that didn't make use of the accelerometer on this device) but it was very basic. no features but find and play. sorta sucks to have to use two different programs to make a comment or view the video Oct 20 21:20:38 I am really not very concerned whether I will be able to access YouTube content, rather I am more interested in how obvious it is to Android developers that it is detrimental to have their single video distribution service based on a closed technology - which is licensed and controlled by a competitor. Oct 20 21:21:03 m-c-, SamuraiHack just answered you Oct 20 21:21:06 SamuraiHack, thanks Oct 20 21:21:44 Competitor? Uh, youtube is a google subsidiary.... Oct 20 21:21:44 romainguy_: Is there a way of instantaneously switching a TransitionDrawable to the second layer? Oct 20 21:21:47 I tried t.startTransition(0) in the onCreate method, but the first state was still momentarily visible Oct 20 21:21:49 m-c-, have you considered that devs can create their own video distrobution service? Oct 20 21:22:16 m-c-, the device will allow youtube competitors Oct 20 21:22:23 it's not a big deal Oct 20 21:22:43 We'll see. Oct 20 21:22:45 there will be .wmv players Oct 20 21:23:09 the iPhone gives a bit more Oct 20 21:23:10 so go create your own Ogg/theora video streaming service Oct 20 21:23:32 gives related videos, ability to bookmark, share, and gives the metadata for the video clip Oct 20 21:23:36 actually, don't, because android doesnt support ogg streaming ) Oct 20 21:23:38 erm :) Oct 20 21:23:41 and 16GB HCSDmicro cards (not sure if the patch is pre-installed or if it has to be downloaded after retial) Oct 20 21:23:43 :) Oct 20 21:23:47 jasta, lol Oct 20 21:23:51 Indeed. The codec and playback API is documented in the SDK. You can write any video distribution service that you want with the tools in the box. Oct 20 21:24:08 yea yo so get to work :) Oct 20 21:24:22 SamuraiHack: you demo'd a phone today!? Oct 20 21:24:22 languish, like BLIP.tv, Theora Sea, TinyVid, V2V, or Wikimedia Commons? Oct 20 21:24:32 m-c-, yes. Oct 20 21:24:39 Okay, I'll get right on it. Oct 20 21:24:52 andyross: come again? it most certainly is not in 1.0r1 Oct 20 21:24:57 Pretty sure I read that the G1 *does* support 16G SDHC cards, no? If not, I ordered one for nought... Oct 20 21:24:58 jasta, yes. it's cool! Oct 20 21:25:06 SamuraiHack: how the fuck? could you buy it? Oct 20 21:25:10 no Oct 20 21:25:14 just a store demo Oct 20 21:25:21 but they just have them sitting there? that's nuts. i will steal one Oct 20 21:25:26 haha Oct 20 21:25:28 i went to one of the stores and a clerk pulled it out of the back Oct 20 21:25:33 andyross, the G1 does work with at least 1 16GB microsdhc card sucessfully. Oct 20 21:25:37 lol Oct 20 21:26:12 jasta: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/media/package-summary.html I haven't written any code mind, you, just skimmed the docs. But what's there looks like a media framework to me... Oct 20 21:26:17 it's a live display model (won't accept microSD for security reasons), but everything else worked (except the 3g isn't live in the area yet, so didn't get to test full data, just EDGE) Oct 20 21:26:31 andyross: lol Oct 20 21:26:42 yeah, all the t-mobile stores around me have a working G1 in the store for the reps to test out, and demo for customers that ask Oct 20 21:26:54 languish: that's great, will they let you install apps on it? Oct 20 21:27:01 jasta, yes Oct 20 21:27:06 languish. yeah, you bet i asked to see it :D Oct 20 21:27:11 SamuraiHack :) Oct 20 21:27:16 andyross: that system is most certainly NOT flexible. and it's buggier than hell. ogg vorbis streaming is not supported. Oct 20 21:27:36 jasta, 'eh, it will be at some point Oct 20 21:27:44 OK, but that's rather a different level of support than "most certainly not". :) Oct 20 21:28:02 languish: judging from informed commenters, not for a long time. the code is in bad shape Oct 20 21:28:08 :( Oct 20 21:28:17 _very_ bad. Oct 20 21:28:18 And by streaming not supported, you mean by the builtins? Surely you could load and buffer it yourself, no? Oct 20 21:28:28 andyross: *LOL*!!!! Oct 20 21:28:34 oh my god i am dying laughing right now Oct 20 21:28:49 andyross: you go ahead and try writing code against any of those packages. you just try :) Oct 20 21:29:05 I swear. Some day I'm going to learn that asking sane questions of the 13 years olds on IRC just isn't worth it. Oct 20 21:29:13 * andyross puts jasta on ignore Oct 20 21:29:15 btw I forget, when does G plan on open sourcing android? Oct 20 21:29:24 rather, releasing the sourc Oct 20 21:29:24 e Oct 20 21:29:32 andyross: lol, 13 year olds? Try an engineer who has wrestled with the broken MediaPlayer for the last 10 months. Oct 20 21:29:38 languish, should be launch day Oct 20 21:29:45 but i'm not sure Oct 20 21:29:51 just a rumor i heard Oct 20 21:29:55 languish: definitely not launch day Oct 20 21:30:03 its going to be a bit i assume Oct 20 21:30:16 yeah, I know it won't be launch day. I heard late november Oct 20 21:30:25 but that's just rumor until they do it Oct 20 21:30:33 :) Oct 20 21:30:37 Strictly: T-Mobile is one the hook for the GPL parts of the source code the instant they ship the device. It won't be long before people start getting restless. Oct 20 21:30:45 * SamuraiHack churns the rumor mill Oct 20 21:31:09 andyross: the GPL parts are already available Oct 20 21:31:26 For the G1? I looked but couldn't find anything. You have a link? Oct 20 21:31:36 romainguy_ the java layer isn't though correct? just the kernel? Oct 20 21:31:38 andyross: you didnt look very hard. there is a git tree with everything. Oct 20 21:31:45 michaelnovakjr_: there's no GPL code on the java layers Oct 20 21:31:51 andyross, should be interesting whether technologies surrounding SIM chips and cell frequencies are open sourced Oct 20 21:31:51 its Apache correct? Oct 20 21:32:09 jasta: will your hacks or the native mediaplayer play raw audio feeds of some sort? Oct 20 21:32:28 taaz: my hacks can only play what the MediaPlayer supports over HTTP, so, no :) Oct 20 21:32:40 so far from what i can tell, the MediaPlayer actually only supports MP3s Oct 20 21:32:43 m-c-: They won't be. At most, the hardware interface will be documented. The SIM consortium requires an NDA. I have a kernel for my A780 that works like that. romainguy_: link/pointer to the G1 kernel code? Oct 20 21:32:46 it's the most miserable, broken pile of CRAP i have ever used. Oct 20 21:32:56 jasta: what about wav? Oct 20 21:33:03 or something simple like that Oct 20 21:33:05 taaz: wav should work, though i haven't tested it. Oct 20 21:33:29 for my usage, wav is irrelevant. it would be very easy to try tho. check this out: Oct 20 21:33:40 b Oct 20 21:33:45 c Oct 20 21:33:47 oops Oct 20 21:33:54 taaz: http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-music/src/org/devtcg/five/music/activity/StreamMediaPlayerTest.java Oct 20 21:33:55 That was me attempting to build on the wrong machine Oct 20 21:33:58 an interesting hack might be to try using cortado to do java decode of vorbis and stream that locally to the mediaplayer Oct 20 21:33:58 here is some sample code utilizing my work-arounds Oct 20 21:34:01 :) Oct 20 21:34:03 http://www.flumotion.net/cortado/ Oct 20 21:34:05 so if you modify STREAM_URI here, you can easily test what it can do :) Oct 20 21:34:13 Can anyone confirm romainguy_'s assertion that the GPL source is available? I'm seriously interested, but can't find any references that say this has actually been released. Oct 20 21:34:26 taaz: well that would be pointless. the mediaplayer plays oggs locally. it "supports" them. Oct 20 21:34:30 it just can't stream them over HTTP Oct 20 21:34:41 andyross: http://code.google.com/p/android/downloads/list Oct 20 21:34:53 andyross, hmm! thanks for your insight Oct 20 21:34:55 andyross: yes, as i just said, there is a git tree. Oct 20 21:35:01 + the git tree Oct 20 21:35:06 just what jasta said Oct 20 21:35:09 That's the SDK though. Not the G1 sources. I wanted the device-specific kernel. Oct 20 21:35:19 what a tard Oct 20 21:35:28 wow Oct 20 21:35:28 http://git.android.com/ Oct 20 21:35:30 dude Oct 20 21:35:30 andyross: that's the device's kernel... Oct 20 21:35:38 jasta: ok. i'm just bothered that i won't be able to use five as easily with my music collection. looking for a workaround :) Oct 20 21:35:40 the kernel is available, sdk isn't Oct 20 21:35:44 taaz: oh you will :) Oct 20 21:35:54 Five is going to [very soon] support transcoding. Oct 20 21:36:01 For the T-Mobile G1? That's not what it says. There's a difference between a kernel to compile on the emulator and the one (with drivers!) that's actually shipping on the device. Oct 20 21:36:03 on the server-side i hope Oct 20 21:36:03 the feature was designed to support FLACs, but is easily adapted to Ogg Oct 20 21:36:04 jasta: what kind of access do you do to the files? Oct 20 21:36:15 on the server side Oct 20 21:36:34 andyross: it is the same kernel Oct 20 21:36:36 "The kernel.git repository currently contains generic Android patches Oct 20 21:36:37 what do you mean? the server just is pointed at a path and it traverses/watches it for audio files it supports Oct 20 21:36:40 (supporting the Android SDK Emulator "goldfish" platform) and Oct 20 21:36:44 support for the Qualcomm MSM7K family of devices. Oct 20 21:36:49 " Oct 20 21:38:11 jasta: i was wondering what kind of access it does to the files. does it need to read out all the metadata? Oct 20 21:38:36 fadden: where's that quote from? This is looking like a dead-end to me. Support for the CPU doesn't get you much, sadly. Oct 20 21:38:40 taaz: it does read out meta data yes. Oct 20 21:38:40 there are cute tricks like gstfs which is a fuse fs that transcodes all files on the fly. but if you hit each one for metadata it's probably rather inefficient Oct 20 21:38:47 taaz: and to support transcoding, it would have to read the entire file of course Oct 20 21:38:54 andyross: from the URL I pasted about a minute ago: http://git.android.com/ Oct 20 21:39:05 taaz: oh, transcoding will be simple really. no need for such a complex layer. Oct 20 21:39:36 taaz: i'll just build with libflac and libvorbis... Oct 20 21:40:12 it's just not at the current top of my priority list just yet. it's moving there soon though since most of my collection is ogg/flac Oct 20 21:41:28 jasta: will five do local files too or just server side streaming? Oct 20 21:42:30 yes: http://code.google.com/p/five/issues/detail?id=36 Oct 20 21:43:54 right now i'm focusing on hardening the sync process (it has a couple of esoteric corner cases that can break it) Oct 20 21:44:07 then it's back to a few UI touchups, then probably ogg/flac support. Oct 20 21:44:13 if you were curious for my roadmap :) Oct 20 21:46:14 i'd care more if i had any expectation of actually being able to buy a g1 in the next month Oct 20 21:46:40 well, that's for the better, Five won't be ready for most users until about a month :) Oct 20 21:46:55 err rather, even geeky users ;) Oct 20 21:46:58 Bin hearing all this talk about "android"! Is it some type of opensource phone ,? Oct 20 21:47:00 most users, eh, a few months Oct 20 21:47:25 hey has anyone noticed android.com has changed a lot? Oct 20 21:47:31 and i suppose i'd think a streaming player was much more awsome if it was smart enough to pick a local server before a remote one Oct 20 21:48:20 taaz: what? Oct 20 21:48:22 seems kind of silly to stream media from home when i could just copy the files to the local box to play them Oct 20 21:48:35 well you could once i support it Oct 20 21:48:38 but thats hardly the point Oct 20 21:48:40 err... i'm not making sense, sorry :) Oct 20 21:48:52 i think you dont understand what five does maybe Oct 20 21:48:56 :) Oct 20 21:49:00 or something Oct 20 21:49:23 but yes, it is a planned feature to integrate with media already on the phone. so if you wanted to bulk copy a bunch of files to your sdcard, fine, it will eventually deal with this Oct 20 21:49:58 How much is g1 going for in US? Oct 20 21:50:08 $179 w/ 2 year t-mobile contract Oct 20 21:50:20 or ~$350 off contract Oct 20 21:50:40 Are they selling it w/o contracts? Oct 20 21:50:50 andyross: they say they will; they currently are not. Oct 20 21:50:57 according to the T-Mo CTO Oct 20 21:51:00 Wpeeeew, wow thats a lil extream Oct 20 21:51:12 we'll find out in a few days Oct 20 21:51:15 radio_Activv: its like any other smartphone. please don't troll. Oct 20 21:51:27 Wonder who you have to find to buy one. Right now all they're advertising is the $179 deal for existing subscribers Oct 20 21:51:55 andyross, that should apply to new customers as well Oct 20 21:52:02 (plz don't quote me) Oct 20 21:52:43 & is the android in it beta? Or is it stable Oct 20 21:52:45 Already ordered mine anyway. Only reason to get one off contract would be to ebay it I guess, and I'm sure more enterprising people would beat me to that. Oct 20 21:53:08 radio_Activv: depends who you ask. it is currently running on a consumer device launching Wed. Oct 20 21:53:45 radio_Activv: google around, there are plenty of reviews for your to read. and info all over. Oct 20 21:53:54 for you to* Oct 20 21:55:07 jasta: 1question, is it opensource Oct 20 21:55:13 andyross: or if T-mo screwed you. i bought my last phone 20 months ago, when the upgrades were allowed every 18 months, and they are saying i cannot renew till january. so i'm buying off contract and looking at other providers to move to as a possibility. i think they are all as bad on the upgrade time though Oct 20 21:55:27 Well, yeah. "Phone company". Enough said. Oct 20 21:56:08 radio_Activv: currently, no. soon, yes. Oct 20 21:57:24 what's a good way to design a list that has the typical icon + some text but lazy loads the content and icons as you scroll? Oct 20 21:57:59 taaz: TunesRemote has a good example of this Oct 20 21:58:07 so whats all the excitement about, it sounds like another symbian/windows mobile type of thing, unless its more customizable Oct 20 21:58:20 radio_Activv: please, don't troll. we aren't interested in it. Oct 20 21:58:42 radio_Activv: it's an open iPhone, basically. That's the hook. Right now it appeals mostly to developers. Oct 20 21:58:45 you clearly don't care to learn what truly is different about it, and so you've no business whipping up a discussion you aren't interested in. Oct 20 21:58:46 radio_activ.. there's plenty of info online Oct 20 21:59:07 can we have the op kill the troll? :D Oct 20 21:59:49 * radio_Activv slaps SamuraiHack Oct 20 21:59:50 is thre an #androiddevelopers type channel in her? Oct 20 21:59:50 * radio_Activv hops on a jet and flies away Oct 20 22:00:02 here Oct 20 22:00:18 waldo_, i think this is it for now Oct 20 22:00:37 there's always /list Oct 20 22:00:46 hmm.. we need an android-dev or something... cuz the place is gonna fill up with people- - tried /list android* didn't seea nything Oct 20 22:01:28 honestly, once this thing gets out there, i might just part here :) Oct 20 22:01:36 it will become such drivel Oct 20 22:01:41 lol Oct 20 22:01:53 jasta exactly Oct 20 22:01:56 jasta, have you typed /join #ubuntu lately? Oct 20 22:02:03 he he he Oct 20 22:03:15 jasta: we need a #android-devs or something :P Oct 20 22:04:01 is there a linux ported to cellphones? Its strange coz searches dont show any details Oct 20 22:04:32 radio_Activv: tons and tons of examples. you just can't search because you're an idiot. Oct 20 22:04:36 now please just go away Oct 20 22:04:48 jasta, plz dn't feed the trolz Oct 20 22:05:04 sigh. Oct 20 22:05:07 if you starve him, he'll go away Oct 20 22:05:17 Its cool, am out Oct 20 22:05:21 we all just have to ignore him Oct 20 22:05:23 ooh trolls =D Oct 20 22:05:30 woot! Oct 20 22:05:41 i need to go around tonight and make sure the t-mobile store by my house has plenty of stock :) Oct 20 22:05:49 * SamuraiHack queues up "Ding dong, the witch is dead" Oct 20 22:06:20 umdk1d3, thats a good idea. A lower traffic channel with a higher signal to noise ratio. Oct 20 22:06:26 they don't have stock here... since the 3g network isn't ready yet. you walk into the store, order it, and they overnight you one (according to the rep) Oct 20 22:07:05 The existence of radio waves in the air prevents them from offering physical boxes in a store ... ? Oct 20 22:07:11 SanMehat: depends on where, the 3g network is just fine here Oct 20 22:07:13 Trying to figure that out. Oct 20 22:07:32 jasta: what theme you use, and is that emerald? Oct 20 22:07:46 results should be different for a city with an active network already in place Oct 20 22:07:48 * jasonchen wonders if everyone on #android has seen the giant Bugdroid delivered to Google today Oct 20 22:07:57 we saw it Oct 20 22:08:00 no one cares jason :) Oct 20 22:08:14 jasta: of course not. they're all waiting for their phones. Oct 20 22:08:19 :-P Oct 20 22:08:21 yes Oct 20 22:08:40 bring on the phones. ok. i'm done making noise. Oct 20 22:09:27 MrSnowflake: erm, i think so. Oct 20 22:10:10 jasta: and what theme (on the screen on five.googlecode.com Oct 20 22:10:27 me likes Oct 20 22:10:29 i think it's just the default black whatever one Oct 20 22:10:35 its got black in the name, part of the default set Oct 20 22:10:41 i cant remember :) Oct 20 22:10:47 :), ubuntu? Oct 20 22:11:04 i use compiz, so i guess you could associate that with ubuntu if you want Oct 20 22:11:20 yeah, but the default themes could be different Oct 20 22:11:35 i dont think so actually, i use it on debian and ubuntu and they were teh same Oct 20 22:11:54 jasta: thanks. looks like that tunesremote code is just about what i was looking for. or at least a good base for what i need. Oct 20 22:11:56 it's called scaled black mod Oct 20 22:12:24 thanks man! Oct 20 22:14:12 lol, i'm so gonna get my t-mobile service shut off Oct 20 22:14:25 just sitting here at work listening to Stars i downloaded like 300MB :) Oct 20 22:20:08 i guess i would be on wi-fi here normally Oct 20 22:34:17 yeah I'd say sooner than later someone's going to start #android-dev Oct 20 22:34:34 plenty of people get their phones on wed? Oct 20 22:34:56 Irc client? Oct 20 22:35:48 wtf Oct 20 22:36:13 ?? Oct 20 22:36:17 "This account cannot be used on the phone because it is missing the following applications: cl, talk." Oct 20 22:36:29 * iDialekt__ stares at languish Oct 20 22:36:37 wtf google wtf Oct 20 22:36:39 WTF Oct 20 22:36:41 wat? Oct 20 22:37:04 Man the g1 came out too early Oct 20 22:37:06 that's the error I get when signing in for the first time Oct 20 22:37:13 languish: did you try logging in to calendar? Oct 20 22:37:14 what email address are you entering? Oct 20 22:37:17 online. Oct 20 22:37:26 or are those apps that the phone is missing? Oct 20 22:37:43 if any of you have actually got a retail phone, I'm curious to hear what OS build they're coming with Oct 20 22:38:16 (menu->settings->about phone->Build number) Oct 20 22:39:45 oh great, and my wife's account doesn't have the 3g data plan activated on it yet Oct 20 22:39:57 even though we ordered them at the same time, and received them together Oct 20 22:40:00 wtf t-mobile wtf Oct 20 22:40:05 give them a call Oct 20 22:40:12 yeah doing so Oct 20 22:40:28 hows the phone feeling so far though? Oct 20 22:40:32 pretty nice? Oct 20 22:41:21 wtf Oct 20 22:41:40 ok Oct 20 22:41:43 I see how this works Oct 20 22:42:44 I'm using a GAFYD account. I have to go in to the domain management, and add talk and calendar services, then use the sub-account I'm syncing with the phone, to log in to them first, THEN initialize the phone with that account Oct 20 22:43:01 GAFYD = google Apps For Your Domain Oct 20 22:43:34 I guess that makes sense, even if it's a pita Oct 20 22:43:51 i think it makes sense. Oct 20 22:43:55 yeah, it does Oct 20 22:43:58 all their apps are seperate. Oct 20 22:44:29 but the phone shouldn't deny you the ability to initialize if you don't have ALL apps enabled for your account Oct 20 22:45:02 what if the domain admin doesn't want to enable talk on the GAFYD Oct 20 22:45:05 well, i think its just because you need to have all the apps for the functionality to work.. But i would agree the error message could be a little more clear Oct 20 22:45:31 yeah, cryptic error messages I'm used to Oct 20 22:45:59 they should have said something like "The account you are trying to use has not been tethered to a Calendar or Talk account yet. Please do so online and try again" Oct 20 22:46:01 but I'm convinced this is not a 1.0 release. Google should have just called it a beta like everything else Oct 20 22:46:12 because that error message could be pertaining to the phone software as well Oct 20 22:46:17 yes Oct 20 22:46:20 and then you would think you got a bad phone Oct 20 22:46:36 my phone did come in questionable condition, lol Oct 20 22:46:40 lol Oct 20 22:46:43 how did it come? Oct 20 22:47:08 the protective plastic was skewed (not slide.. it was obviously placed crookedly) and some scratched on the inside of the back cover Oct 20 22:47:13 Man weak Oct 20 22:47:16 slide/slid Oct 20 22:47:29 that sucks Oct 20 22:47:36 but hey, at least you got one? Oct 20 22:47:47 You're scaring the hell outta me! Oct 20 22:48:15 do you like it so far though? Oct 20 22:48:58 and the market only has 13 apps in it? Oct 20 22:59:51 I'll give more info as soon as we get my wife's initialized Oct 20 23:00:05 i'm signed in Oct 20 23:00:11 and google apps accounts work Oct 20 23:00:11 hey guys, what Buffersize is optimal for IO-Operations like loading images from the web/filesystem. I've seen a couple of official example where inda random 4k and 8k buffers are used :/ Oct 20 23:00:43 I have mixed feelings about the hardware, but it does feel good in my hand Oct 20 23:01:00 * plusminus_ jealous to languish Oct 20 23:01:22 question: can you send and receive data while a call is coming in? Oct 20 23:01:35 mpardo: depends on the network Oct 20 23:01:38 on 3g, yes Oct 20 23:01:50 but edge, by design limitation, no Oct 20 23:01:56 hmm k Oct 20 23:02:03 thanks Oct 20 23:02:07 *design limitation is in EDGE, regardless of phone Oct 20 23:02:30 tmob runs on 3g, edge and what else? Oct 20 23:02:39 pure sexuality Oct 20 23:02:44 avian carrier Oct 20 23:03:36 call quality is clear. Oct 20 23:03:46 lol Oct 20 23:04:53 italkiing to tmo Oct 20 23:04:56 err Oct 20 23:04:58 *taloking Oct 20 23:05:00 wtf Oct 20 23:05:54 * languish can't chew gum and walk today Oct 20 23:09:39 romainguy are you out there, I have a question on the 'Improper call to JPEG Library#-Bug Oct 20 23:10:02 it's starting to look like my wife's sim card, which is still from our old voicestream account, may be the issue Oct 20 23:10:13 it's an old sim version or some shit Oct 20 23:10:17 but not confirmed yet Oct 20 23:10:43 she's not getting *any* signal, while I get perfect signal Oct 20 23:11:14 I wonder if there is a built-in PDF viewer of some sort? Oct 20 23:11:23 on the G1? there is not. Oct 20 23:11:38 gmail can convert a pdf for viewing Oct 20 23:11:45 but it's *converted* Oct 20 23:11:55 languish, yeah, I know, conversion is lousy though Oct 20 23:11:57 not the original pfd. There'll be a 3rd party app to view pdf's Oct 20 23:12:00 that's one of the rather stunning omissions :( Oct 20 23:12:15 well, it's obvious the g1 1,0 isn't a business device Oct 20 23:12:19 *1.0 Oct 20 23:12:22 umdk1d3, So T-Mobile will not be using their EDGE network? Oct 20 23:12:32 m-c-, they do use their edge network. Oct 20 23:12:44 Ah, misread Oct 20 23:12:45 m-c-, my wife's device is just having problems. Mine is not Oct 20 23:12:52 likely due to the age of her sim card Oct 20 23:12:56 m-c-: mpardo was asking about using both data+voice at the same time Oct 20 23:13:01 ah! there is FBreader for android :) Oct 20 23:13:12 we had GSM service with the two companies prior to t-mobile buying them out Oct 20 23:13:19 and still have their old SIM card Oct 20 23:13:27 Strictly: sorta. The G1 is a 3G device intended to run on their new-fangled UMTS network, of which EDGE (and GPRS) is a still-supported, slower subprotocol. Oct 20 23:14:05 if my wife's G1 is busted, I hope we can swap at a tmo store Oct 20 23:14:12 Add to that that UMTS is just a rebranding of existing W-CDMA hardware, and the fact that W-CDMA is a GSM follow-on that has nothing to do with classic CDMA and you have a true alphabet soup of confusion. Oct 20 23:14:45 andyross: what's your story? you do dev? Oct 20 23:14:51 andyross: how on earth did w-cdma manage to end up with the cdma name in it if it's completely unrelated? Oct 20 23:15:06 andyross, Thank you for your insight Oct 20 23:15:34 http://www.helloandroid.com/node/659 Oct 20 23:15:45 and what about hsdpa vs umts? Oct 20 23:16:08 Because it's a code division protocol, not timesliced like GSM/TDMA was. Originally CDMA referred to the kind of technology, not the protocol. Everything makes sense if you squint hard enough. And f00f-: I used to do wireless work professionally, but not any longer. I don't have anything to do at all with android other than having ordered a phone and downloaded the SDK Oct 20 23:16:42 * benley stabs ConnectBot and throws it in the lake Oct 20 23:16:54 == benley Oct 20 23:17:25 * benley fires up adb and injects a dropbear ssh client Oct 20 23:17:34 benley: can has? Oct 20 23:17:47 interestig Oct 20 23:17:52 dropbear ftw Oct 20 23:17:54 well Oct 20 23:18:03 ttuttle: if I get it working, sure Oct 20 23:18:07 benley: cool Oct 20 23:18:19 * andyross has to check wikipedia to make sure he has his story straight on HSDPA, which is the name for the data technology of the overall network that's called UMTS. It's kinda/sorta like the split between "ethernet" and "IP". Kinda. Doesn't mean much. Oct 20 23:18:37 UMTS is the umbrella for the spec i think Oct 20 23:18:43 andyross: so hsdpa:umts :: gprs:gsm ? Oct 20 23:18:57 I think so, yes. Oct 20 23:19:08 ok, sensible enough Oct 20 23:20:39 ok wtf Oct 20 23:21:03 call dropped from tmo tech service, and now no 3g Oct 20 23:21:16 go t-mobile! Oct 20 23:21:16 *sigh* Oct 20 23:21:30 she said she was going to "refresh" my wife's phone Oct 20 23:21:34 I think she refreshed mine Oct 20 23:21:39 t-mobile's network runs on windows, go figure Oct 20 23:21:39 and broke it :| Oct 20 23:21:44 yay tmo Oct 20 23:21:49 and she's not even calling me back Oct 20 23:23:08 hell YEA my app looks sexy Oct 20 23:23:08 lol Oct 20 23:23:19 I'm over the g1 Oct 20 23:23:27 Scaring me Oct 20 23:23:33 iDialekt___: wtf? Oct 20 23:23:34 * umdk1d3 rewrote entire thing since thursday Oct 20 23:23:46 says something about the scope of your app :P Oct 20 23:23:54 hey now :P Oct 20 23:23:58 hehe Oct 20 23:24:26 LOL Oct 20 23:24:35 still have a few features to wrap up, but should have them done later tonight Oct 20 23:24:51 Like maybe it's too early to grab one ??? Oct 20 23:25:22 Umdk.. Irc app? Oct 20 23:30:14 ok it's official. t-mobile is seriously fucking ip Oct 20 23:30:15 up Oct 20 23:30:49 we generally have 5 bars here. tonight, the signals all over the place Oct 20 23:31:37 went from 5 bars and 3g, to 4 bars, no 3g, to 1 bar, and 2 dropped calls along the way Oct 20 23:31:47 Well I'm inspired Oct 20 23:32:53 t-mobile's service is just plain bad ;) Oct 20 23:32:56 all over the US Oct 20 23:33:28 sigh dont be a h8r :P Oct 20 23:33:30 well i expected problems Oct 20 23:33:35 for at least 2 months Oct 20 23:33:42 that's usual with big tmo changes Oct 20 23:33:51 umdk1d3: it's not speculation. i mean, it simply is an inferior network. Oct 20 23:33:52 but I didn't expect it 2 days before the launch Oct 20 23:33:53 apk files are compiled binaries right? Oct 20 23:33:57 technically it's not launched yet Oct 20 23:34:10 nah, launch day is gonna be a mess Oct 20 23:34:12 mpardo: yes, in a sense. it's really just a zip file with stuff in it. Oct 20 23:34:17 blah Oct 20 23:34:21 mpardo: compiled stuff, usually, but there's also images and crud Oct 20 23:34:44 k so if i send someone my apk to try out they can't scam my code Oct 20 23:34:59 of course they could Oct 20 23:35:06 they can just disassemble it like any other code Oct 20 23:35:17 in this case, they'd need a dalvik disassembler (and javap/jad) Oct 20 23:35:26 hmmm Oct 20 23:35:27 one doesnt exist yet, but will of course be produced trivially soon enough Oct 20 23:35:42 mpardo: if you are concerned about this, you've been living with a false sense of security for a long time. Oct 20 23:35:42 "dexdump -d" ? Oct 20 23:35:44 so there's no great way of protecting my code then right? Oct 20 23:35:51 fadden: oh well, there you have it :) Oct 20 23:36:02 ProGuard? Oct 20 23:36:06 mpardo: there are obfuscation programs out there, and they have them for Java as well Oct 20 23:36:14 i'm not sure if proguard is necessary for android Oct 20 23:36:20 isn't it all dummied down to .dex files? Oct 20 23:36:22 but i dont recommend them Oct 20 23:36:31 jasta, disassembled code is obfuscated enough :) Oct 20 23:36:37 ProGuard can do some optimizations as well as obfuscation. Oct 20 23:36:39 does .dex still have original symbols? Oct 20 23:36:44 jeld: there are programs that obfuscate much, much further, sometimes at the cost of performance. Oct 20 23:36:55 it does if you specify "-g" on the Java command line to include debug info. Oct 20 23:36:56 i wonder if those optimizations would work for/against dalvik Oct 20 23:37:11 mpardo: i don't know why you think you need this, however. are you just some paranoid fool that thinks your code is interesting/unique? or is your code actually interesting/unique? Oct 20 23:37:27 lol it actually is Oct 20 23:37:46 heh Oct 20 23:37:46 for example, proprietary industry secrets are often covered by patents and not obfuscation techniques. Oct 20 23:37:53 any IP is best stuffed behind a proprietary web service Oct 20 23:38:25 makes sense Oct 20 23:38:40 bbl Oct 20 23:38:43 i'm just giving someone my apk to try out Oct 20 23:39:27 the receiving party will be purchasing the application Oct 20 23:39:49 put in some time bombs Oct 20 23:39:50 Or not! Oct 20 23:39:51 or whatnot Oct 20 23:39:52 :) Oct 20 23:40:15 i guess it's no big deal Oct 20 23:40:20 spend 10 minutes securing it, but that's it Oct 20 23:40:50 if we should be so lucky as to have our .apk's pirated! Oct 20 23:45:07 heh... i could care less about pirating... the app will be free Oct 20 23:45:08 .apk phone home .apk phone home Oct 20 23:45:14 elllliot Oct 20 23:45:50 be more concerned about someone distro'ing a haxed/joke.non-working version of your app Oct 20 23:46:16 just to be malicious? Oct 20 23:46:27 yeah Oct 20 23:46:29 and to profit Oct 20 23:46:46 The apps are signed. Oct 20 23:47:10 They could, of course, upload it as fOOf rather than f00f and fool people. Oct 20 23:48:01 :/ Oct 20 23:55:36 ah fuck Oct 20 23:55:50 pressing menu on my wife's phone (the one with no signal) gives an APN list Oct 20 23:57:13 languish: is that a bad thing? Oct 21 00:01:27 it's interesting. and it's not good for the average user to see Oct 21 00:01:40 that's why it's in the menu Oct 21 00:01:55 it's also very useful if, like you, you experience issues with data connectivity Oct 21 00:02:02 since you need data to pass the setup stage Oct 21 00:02:03 languish: Sounds like your wife may need a new SIM card. Oct 21 00:02:18 languish: Have you tried your SIM in her phone? Oct 21 00:03:58 long press or not Oct 21 00:04:10 you probably need a 3G SIM Oct 21 00:04:22 if it's a non t-mo or old sim, that may be the case Oct 21 00:04:33 although my attws sim from 2003 was 3G ready back then Oct 21 00:05:03 technically a USIM Oct 21 00:08:33 wife's phone is working, I'll explain how soon Oct 21 00:09:07 Wow you got the worst of the batch? Oct 21 00:09:14 no Oct 21 00:09:53 ? Oct 21 00:09:59 wife's phone required a full reset Oct 21 00:10:07 Working pretty good now? Oct 21 00:10:08 not just a power down and battery removal Oct 21 00:10:10 yes Oct 21 00:10:18 here's how Oct 21 00:10:44 Huh. Wacky. Oct 21 00:10:49 Nice. What are most peoples gripes with gmail contact sync ? Oct 21 00:11:01 iDialekt____, none. Oct 21 00:11:48 Then maybe you don't work in an office with meeting requests etc? Oct 21 00:12:14 you said GMAIL contact sync Oct 21 00:12:25 Sorry Oct 21 00:13:11 I meant does gmail pull every contact and entry and support company directory lookup? Oct 21 00:13:35 i'm looking forward to doing quite a bit of refactoring this week Oct 21 00:14:01 ??? Oct 21 00:14:37 what's so confusing? Oct 21 00:15:06 Refactoring of what? I hate the iPhone Oct 21 00:15:20 It's just weird to type sometimes. Oct 21 00:16:09 my code Oct 21 00:17:58 Oh . Sorry I'm a bit late. I wonder how crappy I'm gonna feel if I get the g1 and then realize there is no irc client yet? Oct 21 00:19:21 dont feel crappy :P Oct 21 00:19:38 you should feel like shit for all those underscores Oct 21 00:19:42 Aim at least? Oct 21 00:20:01 Yeah I should. Thanks to the iBone Oct 21 00:20:06 :( Oct 21 00:20:53 Im dying to get away from this thing but it's like the prettiest thing available to me at the moment. Oct 21 00:21:27 The blackberry curve bores me with it's baby screen Oct 21 00:22:02 ok back Oct 21 00:22:04 btw Oct 21 00:22:51 Tactile feedback ok keyboard? Oct 21 00:24:14 to reset the G1 completely: 1) turn off the phone. 2) press and hold the HOME and POWER buttons for at least 20 seconds until you see an image with a triangular icon 3) open the keyboard 4) press alt l (that's an L) 5) press alt w 6) when the process completes on the screen press and hold HOME and BACK keys for a couple of seconds. Oct 21 00:24:30 * languish had to go through that to get the wife's G1 working Oct 21 00:24:37 Second note: Oct 21 00:24:44 languish where did you find this info Oct 21 00:25:17 f00f-, I just got it from a t-mobile rep that was helping me troubleshoot Oct 21 00:25:56 you actually don't need to keep power pressed Oct 21 00:26:00 just the Hoe key Oct 21 00:26:02 Home Oct 21 00:26:06 Anyone have any gripes with googles management of contacts? Oct 21 00:26:07 as soon as the phone turns on Oct 21 00:26:14 Second Note: If you have a grandfathered TXT messaging plan, for example, 300 txt messages for $2.99 it can conflict on t-mobiles side with the new G1 plan in their system and cause wacky data issues. Oct 21 00:26:25 and you don't need the Alt-L part either :) Oct 21 00:26:38 romainguy, heh, just went through the steps he gave me :/ Oct 21 00:26:39 romain, please compile a list of magic key sequences :) Oct 21 00:26:47 yes, it would be much appreciated Oct 21 00:26:47 why do you hate meoblast001 Oct 21 00:26:49 WHY Oct 21 00:26:59 languish: I know, I'm just making it easier :) Oct 21 00:27:11 romainguy, and we appreciate ot :) Oct 21 00:27:14 *it Oct 21 00:27:23 (and soft reboot is green+menu+red) Oct 21 00:27:28 cool Oct 21 00:27:36 what is this channel about Oct 21 00:27:44 I wanna hear raging compliments on the g1!! Oct 21 00:27:51 LOL Oct 21 00:28:18 don't make me ctcp version the channel Oct 21 00:28:25 I'll do it! Oct 21 00:28:49 Huh Oct 21 00:29:25 ... Oct 21 00:29:48 criso, don't kill the synergy dude Oct 21 00:29:48 Do it!! Oct 21 00:30:04 what is the topic here Oct 21 00:30:06 Lol. My iPhone already beat himn Oct 21 00:30:15 criso, you're clouding my cache man Oct 21 00:30:24 the topic is: Two. Oct 21 00:30:28 I'll cache you! Oct 21 00:30:33 2 days!! Oct 21 00:30:42 hmm Oct 21 00:30:42 Until the retail release of the G1 Oct 21 00:30:44 Game over Oct 21 00:30:53 somebody named meoblast001 says you guys hate him Oct 21 00:30:58 and we also hate him in #reactos Oct 21 00:31:07 so I was desirous to compare notes Oct 21 00:31:13 neoblast001 sounds like an emo teenager Oct 21 00:31:20 we have no time for him, hate or love Oct 21 00:31:21 wtf? Oct 21 00:31:23 maybe we can hate him more effectively if we collaborate on this Oct 21 00:31:30 im not an emo Oct 21 00:31:35 hey meo Oct 21 00:31:37 LOL Oct 21 00:31:40 meoblast001, are you being adequately trolled by criso? Oct 21 00:31:47 ok enough of this. ignore them all. Oct 21 00:31:52 ;D Oct 21 00:31:55 what the hell has happened to this channel? Oct 21 00:32:00 idk Oct 21 00:32:06 G1 comes out and it goes into havoc Oct 21 00:32:07 Who the hell made lol in all caps !!??? Oct 21 00:32:09 i mean... Oct 21 00:32:13 ttuttle, it got closer to retail launch. Oct 21 00:32:14 G1 is announced Oct 21 00:32:16 instead of gpl trolls, we have *this*?! Oct 21 00:32:24 Who tf thought of that ?!! Oct 21 00:32:26 this channel is now officially a cesspit Oct 21 00:32:35 mmm ya know, wednesday is caps lock day =D Oct 21 00:32:42 * ttuttle should start a new channel. Oct 21 00:32:43 Apple finally heard about this channel and sent criso Oct 21 00:32:53 Hahaha Oct 21 00:32:53 languish: lol Oct 21 00:32:54 I'm being paid by the hour Oct 21 00:33:12 criso, what you do on camera with your penis is of no concern to us Oct 21 00:33:15 criso: nice work if you can get it Oct 21 00:33:35 ok, I'm going back to playing with my G1 Oct 21 00:33:48 languish: enjoying it? Oct 21 00:33:53 I shoulda brought my blackberry to lunch instead of this stupid iPhone Oct 21 00:34:01 well Oct 21 00:34:03 ttuttle not yet. I'll let you know. Oct 21 00:34:21 I can't leave this screen or I'll get disconnected Oct 21 00:34:34 No bg processing cespit Oct 21 00:34:46 the plan was to impersonate users while they are sleeping, making them look stupid Oct 21 00:34:57 but it looks like you dullards have beaten me at my own game Oct 21 00:35:17 g'day ;) Oct 21 00:35:22 iDialekt____: maybe you shouldnt have bought one or the other in the first place. Oct 21 00:35:41 I bought both Oct 21 00:36:12 I buy every device except dumbphones and windows mobile Oct 21 00:36:39 Although iphone is the dumbest thus far Oct 21 00:44:32 Ok, so far I like the responsiveness of the G1 Oct 21 00:44:42 it's (ugh hate this term but it fits) "snappy" Oct 21 00:45:15 I don't like the scroll bar on the right, when I see it, I get the impression I have to scroll in the other direction Oct 21 00:45:51 it looks as if it's a counterweight to me, as opposed to a an indicator of what direction I can scroll for more options. granted, I'll likely get used to it Oct 21 00:46:57 The camera is practically useless in my indoor lighting Oct 21 00:50:58 Ok, when putting in say.. passwords.. it asterisks them out, but before it does.. you have a moment where the character you input is visible. I don't like that. Either show it, or completly asterisk it out Oct 21 00:52:04 languish: try settings > Security & Location : Show password as you type. Oct 21 00:52:08 languish: certain operators require that Oct 21 00:52:12 but you can configure it Oct 21 00:52:14 languish: which one has that behav? i know its indispensible with onscreen keyboards Oct 21 00:52:23 asterisking it out is intended to hide what you type on-screen. Oct 21 00:52:36 showing it for a moment defeats the purpose :/ Oct 21 00:53:08 Disconnect, noticed it when setting up the gmail account to initialize the G1 Oct 21 00:53:28 :( Oct 21 00:53:34 hrm Oct 21 00:53:44 unless its got a magic never-before-mentioned onscreen keyboard :) Oct 21 00:53:49 touching the power indicator doesn't shoe me more details Oct 21 00:54:09 Disconnect, :) no.. Oct 21 00:55:12 *sigh* my first non-tech support call on the G1 is going to order chinese food delivery Oct 21 00:55:18 languish: it's actually not that much of a risk Oct 21 00:55:25 Certain operators actually require to show the password in full Oct 21 00:55:26 languish: iphone does the same for password field, for whatever that's worth Oct 21 00:55:33 cbeust_, with the people around me, it is Oct 21 00:55:36 the idea is that it's pretty easy to hide what you're typing on a phone, as opposed to a computer Oct 21 00:55:55 vinse, heh Oct 21 00:56:02 Other operators will tell you that even the fugitive view of the letter is too risky Oct 21 00:56:11 Bottom line is: we made it configurable Oct 21 00:56:13 note, I'm not super-bitching. I'm giving my opinions as they come to me Oct 21 00:56:26 That's fine, keep them coming, we have a thick skin :) Oct 21 00:56:28 cbeust_, cool, I'm still going through the settings Oct 21 00:56:34 :) Oct 21 00:56:53 I'm just an asshole, so I come across as complaining Oct 21 00:57:06 something devs should be used to Oct 21 00:57:07 :D Oct 21 00:57:15 cbeust_: after erecting that big android i'm sure you have some nice callouses too :-P Oct 21 00:58:39 languish: showing it for a moment defeats the purpose < you can disable this feature Oct 21 00:58:48 I don't, I was taking the pictures :) Oct 21 01:03:00 lol Oct 21 01:11:12 so what do i need to know/have when i go to the store to buy my goooooglephone? Oct 21 01:11:33 assuming there's not a line around the block Oct 21 01:13:18 My guess is, good credit, your ID... knowing what calling and data plan you want... Oct 21 01:13:26 and what color G1 you want Oct 21 01:13:38 plus lots of patience Oct 21 01:13:43 cell phone bill to port my number? Oct 21 01:13:47 i can do that right? Oct 21 01:13:54 one would assume yes Oct 21 01:14:03 but I don't know if they're doing ports or not Oct 21 01:14:17 You may need to sign up, get a #, and port once it's working Oct 21 01:14:22 I don't know. Oct 21 01:14:47 i want a black on Oct 21 01:14:48 e Oct 21 01:15:04 that's what she said Oct 21 01:15:08 :| Oct 21 01:15:21 my co-worker does that a lot Oct 21 01:15:35 it's gotten to the point where i set it up on purpose Oct 21 01:15:58 "woah, this one is too long" (looking for an extension cord) Oct 21 01:16:15 "that'll never fit" (moving furniture) Oct 21 01:16:16 etc. Oct 21 01:16:19 it's amusing. Oct 21 01:23:19 i hate sqlite Oct 21 01:24:15 Disconnect: why's that? Oct 21 01:24:44 it's a perfectly reasonable solution for a portable environment like this imho. Oct 21 01:24:54 its throwing no-such-column errors for a totally fine query Oct 21 01:25:28 select a.name, f.foo from atable a, footable f where a.foo_id=f._id; .. its objecting to f._id Oct 21 01:26:02 My wife hit the market, and started downloading everything in sight, and the downloads just ground to a halt Oct 21 01:26:03 lol Oct 21 01:26:24 (my g1 made it to the local-ish dist center 30 mins after they closed for pickups :( ..) Oct 21 01:26:31 :( Oct 21 01:27:42 hey, talked to a Tmobile reseller store today, they seemed to think the G1 is only available for $179 if I sign up for the $40 voice plan or higher... is this at all true? Oct 21 01:28:07 isn't that the min price for the combined plan? Oct 21 01:28:14 but yah, its got its own plans and one is required Oct 21 01:28:33 not sure. I that it was whatever + $25 something or $35 data plan Oct 21 01:29:05 cheaper is better Oct 21 01:29:11 find the least expensive one and let me know :] Oct 21 01:29:11 they have a $30 voice plan, thats enough for me Oct 21 01:29:18 "you do the math, so i don't have to" Oct 21 01:29:22 they told me it would cost more for the phone if I got that Oct 21 01:30:23 tweakt: did you escalate the call? Oct 21 01:30:40 or talk to a Tmobile direct store? Oct 21 01:31:13 no, I decided I'd just go to a direct store on Wednesday to avoid any confusion Oct 21 01:31:23 plus they said they might get like _3_ ... haha Oct 21 01:31:32 3? Oct 21 01:31:42 phones Oct 21 01:32:25 bummer. Oct 21 01:33:52 hrm really? Oct 21 01:33:58 there's two other tmobile direct stores nearby, so i'm going there instead Oct 21 01:33:58 my local tmob store didn't say how many Oct 21 01:34:10 this was a franchise place Oct 21 01:34:26 my other local one isn't getting any in until nov 3 Oct 21 01:35:24 The data plans are $25 for unlimited data and 400 SMS, and $35 for unlimited data and unlimited SMS. The $39 / month plan is their 300-minute-with-MyFaves plan, and it is plausible that they would require that as a minimum voice plan, although I don't remember exactly if they do. Oct 21 01:35:31 plus they said they might get like _3_ ... haha <- manager's likely got a dozen reserved for other people Oct 21 01:36:08 T-mobile also has a non-myfaves plan that's 1000 minutes with free nights (9pm) and weekends Oct 21 01:36:13 for $39.99 Oct 21 01:36:23 or $39.95, I never remember which Oct 21 01:36:31 That's the one I got Oct 21 01:36:36 without MyFaves Oct 21 01:36:43 oh, thats good to know, the $30 plan was only free weekends Oct 21 01:36:54 yawn Oct 21 01:36:56 languish: it's actually $39.999... Oct 21 01:36:57 just looked up where to buy mine Oct 21 01:37:00 lol, they have miserable availability :) Oct 21 01:37:08 the most i could find was a shipment of 90 coming to a really popular store Oct 21 01:37:09 so OOP question. i want to get a new FooThing() but if there are no FooThings in the db it should punt to the create-a-foo-thing screen. So do I handle that in the FooThing constructor (and return what? Hopefully the new foothing but..) or do I check for FooThings outside that? Oct 21 01:37:12 languish: T-mobile leaves it as an exercise to the viewer to prove that that's less than $40 :o) Oct 21 01:37:13 most other stores are getting only 15 or 30 in Oct 21 01:37:36 jasta: did you call or is that info online? Oct 21 01:37:54 i just called several stores around here Oct 21 01:38:07 gdsx lol Oct 21 01:38:10 Disconnect: don't use new, use a factory Oct 21 01:38:42 (there will only ever be one FooThing instantiated at a time, fyi) Oct 21 01:39:15 gonna go eat, then go back to playing with G1 Oct 21 01:39:25 later on I'll be up for testing peoples apps Oct 21 01:39:48 jt436 and DarkriftX get first dibs Oct 21 01:40:46 i dont understand why you'd even chose the 350 plan, for 10 dollars more a month you get 250 more minutes. Oct 21 01:41:01 Because I hardly use voice on the phone Oct 21 01:41:17 uhh, I just don't talk that much Oct 21 01:41:24 * Disconnect is annoyed - not finding quick refs to factories in the java books :/ any suggestions? Oct 21 01:41:42 I hope they get that VOIP running... Oct 21 01:41:59 Disconnect: "Design Patterns" Oct 21 01:42:07 on AT&T now and I rarely talk at night/weekends. I capped out my rollover minutes on only the 200min plan Oct 21 01:42:17 I have a few thousand easy Oct 21 01:42:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_factory_pattern Oct 21 01:42:31 cbeust_: damn - might have that pdf but i've only got headfirst java and java-nutshell in dead tree :/ Oct 21 01:42:32 ah cool Oct 21 01:42:41 It's overly complex in this entry but you'll get the idea Oct 21 01:45:38 yah it made my head spin a couple times :) how is this wildly different from subclassing? i don't need "fancyFooThing" and "modernFooThing" I just need "get a foothing from the db, or create one and save it there" Oct 21 01:46:39 just use new for now. it's not evil, but can be inflexible. just know there's better ways if it becomes more complicated. Oct 21 01:47:24 fair enough :) Oct 21 01:47:45 the good news is, at least in this example, fooThing is just a name and a db id :) Oct 21 01:48:28 I would use a constant id, like -1 to represent a new thing. that way you know not to bother looking in the db for it. -1 means new and unsaved. Oct 21 01:48:30 * Disconnect doesn't think he has anything else that -must- exist before the app runs. hmm. ... maybe is time to push fooThing into v2 and just assume fooThing.id=1 :) Oct 21 01:49:09 then once you save it, you give it a real id Oct 21 01:49:11 Disconnect: it's just more flexible to use a method to create an object instead of a constructor Oct 21 01:49:20 because a constructor cannot return instances of subclasses Oct 21 01:49:21 the case i'm working is first-launch of the app. but i can stick one in with name="New FooThing" as part of db creation and let them hit the edit page if they care Oct 21 01:49:26 rather than confusing new() Oct 21 01:49:30 er, new fooThing() Oct 21 02:00:36 ttuttle: I got a working ssh binary on the device now, but it currently requires you to have one with an unlocked bootloader Oct 21 02:02:04 yo Oct 21 02:02:12 yo Oct 21 02:02:15 yo Oct 21 02:05:37 so... Oct 21 02:06:17 benley: sshd? Oct 21 02:06:50 ahh, the hacks begin Oct 21 02:07:29 Disconnect: ssh client. Oct 21 02:07:41 ah Oct 21 02:07:47 SanMehat: before you completely disappear into the real world just wanted to wish you well with the upcoming hoopla ;-) Oct 21 02:07:58 mikal_: yo Oct 21 02:08:10 g1's pretty nice Oct 21 02:08:28 benley: hi Oct 21 02:08:29 * Disconnect isn't gonna pull all that "free human" crap but i doubt it'll be long before root access is hacked in Oct 21 02:08:34 mikal_: fix it! Oct 21 02:08:55 * benley has root on his device and is still having issues :-P Oct 21 02:08:58 unix_lappy: haha thanks :) Oct 21 02:09:07 heh Oct 21 02:09:13 unix_lappy: theres *this* hoopla and then my *wedding* hoopla in 2 weeks :) Oct 21 02:09:58 is there a simple way to turn an enum to/from a long? or should i just use the string methods? Oct 21 02:10:00 SanMehat: i meant the latter, of course :-) Oct 21 02:10:12 hahaha thanks :) we're both very stoked Oct 21 02:11:51 Disconnect, ordinal() but that can break if the enum values are reordered in the source file Oct 21 02:12:26 tweakt: i saw the ordinal doc but i didn't see anything to go the other way. although yah, i guess the strings are way more future-proof and harder to break.. strings it is :) Oct 21 02:12:27 tunewiki is AWESOME Oct 21 02:12:53 to those of you who have received your new G1....did you need a new SIM card? Oct 21 02:13:12 WildCaterpillar: in what sense? Oct 21 02:13:25 Disconnect, yeah toString()/name() and valueOf()... valueOf throws IllegalArgumentAcception if there's no matching enum value Oct 21 02:13:33 i saw someone mentioned something about 3G sim cards...not sure what this is Oct 21 02:13:40 *Exception er... i'm tired tonight Oct 21 02:14:04 oh, dunno Oct 21 02:14:17 yah but that just means i can't shrink the list. thats fine :) Oct 21 02:14:32 benley, there is an android SSH client in development you know, right? Look for "connectbot" Oct 21 02:14:36 (or rather, I can't shrink the list without doing a db ver update that fixes it) Oct 21 02:14:36 at any rate, when you put your SIM card in...how were existing contacts handled? were they sync'd to the gmail account or just added to the phone Oct 21 02:15:04 WildCaterpillar: there's a thingie in Settings that lets you import your contacts from the sim Oct 21 02:15:10 WildCaterpillar: which will add them to the gmail account Oct 21 02:16:16 so are there differences in capacity of SIM cards (yes i know most people will store on the phone anyway) Oct 21 02:16:39 but i notice that i can't seem to store many messages in my inbox Oct 21 02:18:38 tweakt: connectbot is currently awful Oct 21 02:19:02 tweakt: dropbear in the devtools terminal client is better :) Oct 21 02:26:14 I need to learn to use git Oct 21 02:26:22 morrildl: you and me both dude :) Oct 21 02:26:33 Are there any major projects that use git, I wonder? Oct 21 02:26:39 besides Linux I mean Oct 21 02:26:50 no idea Oct 21 02:27:07 i honestly have to admit i have no f'ing clue how to use git Oct 21 02:27:24 i struggled for quite a while to even get the hang of checking out/updating the android git tree Oct 21 02:27:35 morrildl: I think either KDE or GNOME is switching Oct 21 02:28:02 Google still uses Oct 21 02:28:09 Perforce IIRC Oct 21 02:28:22 but they have major integration with it Oct 21 02:29:36 Adamant: we do for internal projects, yes Oct 21 02:30:14 morrildl: depends on what you call 'major' Oct 21 02:30:34 morrildl: lol, didn't know you worked for Larry and Sergei Server Farm. Oct 21 02:30:45 sorry to lecture you Oct 21 02:32:49 GHC is switching from Darcs to git Oct 21 02:32:58 it's a pretty large project Oct 21 02:33:06 GHC? Oct 21 02:33:11 im using a 6 or 7 year old sim, so that's not a problem Oct 21 02:33:19 romainguy: glasgow haskell compiler Oct 21 02:33:25 that's what I feared :p Oct 21 02:33:28 Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compiler Oct 21 02:33:35 large, but major? :) Oct 21 02:34:10 well, given that it used to use darcs, which came before git and is written in Haskell..... Oct 21 02:34:18 I'd say it says something Oct 21 02:34:31 "Yes, darcs basically has two features. One of them is interactive commit. The other one is suddenly becoming permanently unusable." --glasser Oct 21 02:37:41 hah Oct 21 02:40:25 haskell's crazy Oct 21 02:42:18 morrild: RoR switched to git a year ago Oct 21 02:42:24 that's the only one I have ever heard of Oct 21 02:42:28 not sure I'd call RoR major, though Oct 21 02:42:37 so is svn passe? Oct 21 02:42:44 not really Oct 21 02:42:52 svn is 'common denominator' Oct 21 02:42:56 stuff like hg and git are 'new hotness' Oct 21 02:42:57 ok Oct 21 02:43:02 git is everywhere now Oct 21 02:43:25 It's gaining some momentum, but I wouldn't say everywhere Oct 21 02:43:38 not cross platform enough Oct 21 02:43:53 us who have to use windows for our jobs still use svn Oct 21 02:44:00 every other day keep hearing about git Oct 21 02:44:51 the big problem with git is that distribution makes synchronization a nightmare. So there are some things that "traditional" VCSes do trivially that are impossible with git Oct 21 02:46:00 svn seems to be fine Oct 21 02:46:30 i don't think there is integration between git and eclipse or netbeans Oct 21 02:46:51 i think there is Oct 21 02:46:56 I would be surprised if there wasn't Oct 21 02:47:15 git is pretty mainstream in some populations Oct 21 02:47:42 netbeans doesn't support it... unless there's a plugin Oct 21 02:48:30 That doesn't matter too much, what does is that neither Eclipse nor IDEA support it Oct 21 02:49:03 cbeust_: there isn't a plugin for it? Oct 21 02:49:15 Not that I know Oct 21 02:49:51 http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/EclipsePlugin albeit looking a little unrefined Oct 21 02:52:46 morrildl: Samba uses git. Oct 21 02:54:34 well, i,m on irc from my g1 Oct 21 02:54:43 yay? Oct 21 02:54:51 screen + irssi Oct 21 02:54:52 ? Oct 21 02:55:03 I thought there was no terminal client Oct 21 02:55:05 ? Oct 21 02:55:06 no. mibbit lol Oct 21 02:55:21 web client Oct 21 02:55:31 ah Oct 21 02:55:49 * summatusmentis is jealous of every single G1 owner Oct 21 02:57:21 hmm Oct 21 02:58:02 I'm on sprin Oct 21 02:58:06 sprint :( Oct 21 02:59:10 this isn't optimal :| Oct 21 02:59:13 bbl **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 21 02:59:57 2008