**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 21 02:59:57 2008 Oct 21 03:02:19 summatusmentis, I am so sorry - I was an unhappy Sprint PCS customer for many years. Oct 21 03:02:51 The customer service with T-Mobile is worlds different Oct 21 03:04:03 m-c-: I really like sprints service, works well where I need it, and their customer service is apparently ranked #1 right now, but we don't get pretty new phones :) Oct 21 03:04:20 summatusmentis: well you will. it's just 6-8 months out. Oct 21 03:04:43 unix_lappy: yeah... but I want it now! :-P Oct 21 03:04:49 summatusmentis, I just got the feeling every person I talked to in their call center was thinking as hard as they could: "I don't care." Oct 21 03:05:10 m-c-: they've done pretty extensive re-vamp, apparently Oct 21 03:05:12 summatusmentis, T-Mobile people are always asking what more they can do, to the point of embarrassment Oct 21 03:05:25 summatusmentis, isn't sprint getting the htc touch pro? Oct 21 03:05:36 languish: yeah, and win mo Oct 21 03:05:39 nod Oct 21 03:05:55 The T-Mobile Internet network is also wide open (in terms of blocked ports) with no bandwidth caps Oct 21 03:06:01 I'm not a winmo hater. I just appreciate there may be something better Oct 21 03:06:19 m-c-, tmo indeed has caps Oct 21 03:06:37 though for now, they're going to rate limit when you hit the cap instead of cutting us off Oct 21 03:06:39 Sorry, but I have never seen them Oct 21 03:06:47 m-c-: I can't use winmo, OS X Oct 21 03:06:51 at least for 3g Oct 21 03:06:57 I read through the contracts pretty carefully Oct 21 03:07:01 m-c-: also, tmo doesn't have SERO :0D Oct 21 03:07:03 :-D Oct 21 03:07:38 The tmo rep that assisted me with getting my wofes phone working specifically stated after 10GB they'll impose the rate limiting Oct 21 03:07:43 *wifes Oct 21 03:08:29 m-c-: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/10/20/sprints-csr-response-time-skyrockets-to-first-in-recent-survey/ Oct 21 03:08:37 If you say so, but it was not in my contract Oct 21 03:09:40 summatusmentis, that's just response time.. meaning they pick up the phone quickly :/ Oct 21 03:09:48 that doesn't indicate good service Oct 21 03:09:50 summatusmentis, They may have improved, but it will be a cold day in hell before they ever get me back as a customer Oct 21 03:09:56 same here Oct 21 03:10:01 languish: well, yes, but I've had good service recently (when I need to call them) Oct 21 03:10:06 why? that bitter? Oct 21 03:10:08 sprint will never see my business again Oct 21 03:10:31 summatusmentis, multiple accounts they screwed up billing on significantly, on a regular basis Oct 21 03:10:38 not a one shot deal Oct 21 03:10:43 summatusmentis, yes, it was terrible - some of my most stressed out moments were on the phone trying to get decent service Oct 21 03:10:49 but different accounts I opened for business and relatives Oct 21 03:10:59 when I'm no longer a poor college student, and I can afford contracts with the big 2, then I'll consider them Oct 21 03:11:06 and they were all inaccurately billed by hundreds of $ Oct 21 03:11:06 and I am one cool customer, typically Oct 21 03:11:29 holy cow Oct 21 03:11:29 new problems with the billing from sprint came up every few months Oct 21 03:11:38 I have yet to run into a billing issue Oct 21 03:11:44 they seem to have changed Oct 21 03:11:48 I got tired of it, especially after they kept trying to dodge the issue Oct 21 03:12:01 that's reasonable Oct 21 03:12:11 "we know it's a problem, and it's inaccurate, I'm not sure why we can't adjust it" Oct 21 03:12:21 heard that a few dozen times Oct 21 03:12:44 sprint can die in an economic implosion Oct 21 03:12:50 wow... SERO does what I want for now Oct 21 03:13:18 yeah, we had problems with service, but not too many.. the actual service was ok Oct 21 03:13:36 the recurring billing nightmares though... Oct 21 03:13:52 anyway Oct 21 03:13:55 back to the G1 Oct 21 03:13:59 "SERO is a heavily discounted plan for friends and family of Sprint employees" Oct 21 03:14:04 understandable. I'm in an area where cdma is really the only usable option, sorry. didn't meant to start a sprint hate fest Oct 21 03:14:20 m-c-, just about anyone can get SERO from sprint nowdays Oct 21 03:14:27 if you have a clue, you get it Oct 21 03:14:36 well, not anymore, they cancelled it Oct 21 03:14:41 ahh did they Oct 21 03:14:51 they upped the prices, and made it so you need an employee id number now Oct 21 03:14:55 sure they don't have a backchannel grandfathered dealio going on Oct 21 03:14:57 still easy to get, but not nearly as appealing Oct 21 03:15:18 http://wiki.howardforums.com/index.php/SPRINT_SERO#What_is_SERO.3F Oct 21 03:15:19 I'm grandfathered in, but I new subscribers can't get it Oct 21 03:15:27 nod Oct 21 03:15:45 hi Oct 21 03:15:50 G1 talk yay Oct 21 03:15:50 hi Dialekt Oct 21 03:15:59 whoa hey summatusmentis Oct 21 03:16:00 :) Oct 21 03:16:04 lol get yours yet? Oct 21 03:16:11 using mine now Oct 21 03:16:16 getting used to it Oct 21 03:16:36 also suffering food coma Oct 21 03:16:39 is it nice? Oct 21 03:16:46 I have mixed feelings really Oct 21 03:16:53 :( sorry languish Oct 21 03:16:54 I may appreciate it more as more apps I want come out Oct 21 03:17:03 i knew it! Oct 21 03:17:12 that's the ONLY reason why I don't want one Oct 21 03:17:19 because its immature at the moment in terms of apps Oct 21 03:17:19 I don't dislike it Oct 21 03:17:31 I'm not happy about the camera at all Oct 21 03:17:58 I feel like the cross between the touchscreen and the trackball is weird Oct 21 03:18:30 but I've never touched one Oct 21 03:19:03 Android... well.. it responds quickly, it works. I'm still getting used to how it works. some parts of it work well, and intuitively. But much of it, isn't very intuitive Oct 21 03:19:17 it's a learning curve, not a steep one, but just annoy that little things can be annoying Oct 21 03:19:19 same with the iPhone Oct 21 03:19:27 intuitive but not really Oct 21 03:19:28 *annoying Oct 21 03:19:31 err Oct 21 03:19:33 enough Oct 21 03:19:37 enough what? Oct 21 03:19:42 nevermind Oct 21 03:19:51 :( iphone talk got you down? Oct 21 03:19:59 is it really bad to compare its competitior Oct 21 03:20:01 my brain is suffering loss of oxygen with all the blood in my stomach digesting Oct 21 03:20:02 or any for that matter? Oct 21 03:20:09 oh whoa.. Im sorry Oct 21 03:20:16 sleep/rest? Oct 21 03:20:18 you're digesting bloo? Oct 21 03:20:24 nah, just wait till food coma passes Oct 21 03:20:27 blood* Oct 21 03:21:14 nah, chinese food Oct 21 03:21:18 a bit too much of it Oct 21 03:21:38 neither of us wanted to cook to have more time messing with the g1 Oct 21 03:21:51 'us' ? Oct 21 03:22:03 my wife and I. we each got 1 Oct 21 03:22:12 ooh... geekchick? Oct 21 03:22:20 yea Oct 21 03:22:21 :) Oct 21 03:22:37 awesome :) my girlfriend doesn't like technology at all Oct 21 03:22:53 mine likes portables/handheld games/gadets Oct 21 03:23:17 mine likes animals (bio-chem major) Oct 21 03:23:25 so you win :) Oct 21 03:23:34 yeah, my condolences on your future managerie Oct 21 03:23:56 haha, just a college student, I'm not making any future plans Oct 21 03:24:32 heh Oct 21 03:24:38 OK for the Android google guys Oct 21 03:25:05 an option for the google search widget to auto clear the search field Oct 21 03:25:13 I don't want my last search sitting there Oct 21 03:26:59 getting flooded yet? anyone know what the vid player in market is named? exists? Oct 21 03:28:59 illuminum, it may not be there right now. A bunch of apps are being refreshed after the market was updated today Oct 21 03:29:04 @languish cooking taster= cooking and messing with g1 Oct 21 03:29:40 mib_afd69rxi I know.. I suggested it, but she was too obsessed with going through all the configs... Oct 21 03:30:16 any details on how to get an app into the 'android market'? Oct 21 03:30:25 none yet Oct 21 03:31:08 i went to my tmob store today. played with a mock-up unit. hoping to see the real thing on Wednesday Oct 21 03:31:35 donomo, the mock up unit wasn't functional? Oct 21 03:31:52 Ask one of the reps. They are highly likely to have a working unit in store to play with Oct 21 03:31:56 languish: it was a toy to get a feel for the dimentons Oct 21 03:31:58 even if it's not on display yet Oct 21 03:32:01 dimensions, even. Oct 21 03:32:10 most of the tmo stores here have them Oct 21 03:32:17 they're just behind the counter Oct 21 03:32:20 here? (im in portland or) Oct 21 03:32:27 here = nyc Oct 21 03:33:25 i hope the politics of the mobile telecom market doesn't make google become evil Oct 21 03:33:32 i bet it will though :-/ Oct 21 03:33:40 read about the killswitch on slashdot the other day Oct 21 03:33:41 I wish HTC had stuck the ~ on the letter a or something and given me a longer spacebar Oct 21 03:34:07 the killswitch isn't such a big deal as long as they stick to their own terms Oct 21 03:34:16 aye Oct 21 03:34:35 I appreciate that the killswitch is publicly known also Oct 21 03:34:35 it's supposdly only a killswitch for android market apps. not 3rd party apps you get from non market sites Oct 21 03:34:49 well that's fair Oct 21 03:34:56 if that's indeed the case Oct 21 03:35:00 It is Oct 21 03:35:57 so then what's the point? all that does is push devs to provide the apps not through the market Oct 21 03:36:27 no not really, the point then is to protect users of market from unwittingly installing or using malware Oct 21 03:37:04 ok, now I need a blogger app Oct 21 03:37:10 :| Oct 21 03:37:33 languish: the internet isn't good enough? Oct 21 03:37:53 summatusmentis, it is. but an app would be tailored to the interface better Oct 21 03:38:00 i need a media player so i can watch hentai in the bathroom Oct 21 03:38:13 illuminum: more info than needed Oct 21 03:38:24 geeze dude, just mount an old wifi pda on the wall with a touchscreen on the wall across from the toilet Oct 21 03:38:37 rather Oct 21 03:38:42 make that voice command Oct 21 03:38:50 bathroom touch screen, eww Oct 21 03:39:00 I've got an old zaurus I'll sell you Oct 21 03:39:37 I have like 3 axim x30 high's Oct 21 03:39:40 err 4 Oct 21 03:39:55 de Oct 21 03:40:14 was using them to test some home automation stuff Oct 21 03:40:28 its going to be so nice to be able to sync my phone after battling crapple crapphone on linux Oct 21 03:40:51 all i need is ssh/a terminal and a media player Oct 21 03:40:58 gvim would be nice too Oct 21 03:41:06 yeah, I need to start making my apps list Oct 21 03:41:14 delete this myspace crapp Oct 21 03:41:23 yo Oct 21 03:41:25 ? Oct 21 03:41:30 what myspace crap? Oct 21 03:41:34 pre loaded on g1? Oct 21 03:41:37 there's a myspace app on the g1 Oct 21 03:41:39 yes Oct 21 03:41:49 what? gross Oct 21 03:41:54 srsly Oct 21 03:41:56 not mine Oct 21 03:41:58 its in market Oct 21 03:42:14 oh Oct 21 03:42:20 my wife d/l'd it to my phone Oct 21 03:42:23 *sigh* Oct 21 03:42:31 she downloaeed every app in the market Oct 21 03:42:38 when does google cron the market Oct 21 03:42:46 cron? Oct 21 03:42:48 myspace on the g1? for the loose. Oct 21 03:43:02 refresh (i'm pretending to be leet) Oct 21 03:43:07 hehe Oct 21 03:43:50 lol Oct 21 03:43:56 myspace is decent Oct 21 03:43:59 if used properly Oct 21 03:44:04 but facebook = less bloated Oct 21 03:52:40 romainguy: how efficient is the compositing of a listview with a background image in the activity? Oct 21 03:53:33 facebook also has considerably less spam Oct 21 03:54:29 umdk1d3: slow, it takes about 4ms to draw the full screen, without compositing Oct 21 03:54:45 kk good to know Oct 21 03:54:48 hence the cache color hint Oct 21 03:55:10 ill leave the background out then Oct 21 04:16:29 strange dude that m-c- Oct 21 04:19:30 languish: little do you know that his favorite tool is a hammer Oct 21 04:20:40 and he likes to kill time with it? Oct 21 04:20:43 :/ Oct 21 04:21:30 hrm.. trackball is a little too sensitive Oct 21 04:21:34 for me Oct 21 04:21:40 * languish funblefingers Oct 21 04:22:07 languish: put more dust in it Oct 21 04:22:08 but I like how it works in conjuction with keyboard/touchscreen Oct 21 04:22:20 summatusmentis, in that case, it's self adjusting with time Oct 21 04:22:31 haha, yes? :-P Oct 21 04:22:41 :) Oct 21 04:23:22 a trackball seems superfluous when there's a touchscreen Oct 21 04:24:03 it's surprisingly not Oct 21 04:24:08 summatusmentis, no.. this seems to work nicely. It has functionality in documents Oct 21 04:24:13 why woudl it be superfluous Oct 21 04:24:16 the trackball is actually, imo, very nice to scroll through links Oct 21 04:24:18 or through lists Oct 21 04:24:27 I mange my email almost entirely with the trackball Oct 21 04:24:32 DannyB: if only because the touchscreen could do the same scrolling Oct 21 04:24:32 I find this easier Oct 21 04:24:37 you can use it to block (highlight) text..etc without readjusting grip Oct 21 04:24:38 (especiall with one hand) Oct 21 04:24:41 romainguy__: granted, I haven't actually tried it Oct 21 04:25:07 summatusmentis, read the manual for the G1, it'll make more sense to you Oct 21 04:25:21 (the trackball useage) Oct 21 04:25:31 I need to finish reading it myself Oct 21 04:25:40 languish: is the manual online? Oct 21 04:25:49 yeah.. it's floating around as a pdf Oct 21 04:25:51 * summatusmentis won't be partaking in G1 happiness Oct 21 04:25:54 a brake pedal is superfluous because you could simply let go of the accelerator Oct 21 04:26:07 DannyB: also true :) Oct 21 04:26:19 i think 'll keep my brake pedal though Oct 21 04:26:20 :) Oct 21 04:26:25 nah, overrated Oct 21 04:26:59 ugh Oct 21 04:27:14 grandcentral.com doesn't work well with the G1 browser Oct 21 04:27:55 I have a voicemail alert in my gmail, but when I use the link to listen to the grandcentral voicemail the site doesn't render properly Oct 21 04:28:14 google, plz2integrate bettar Oct 21 04:42:53 sup languish Oct 21 04:44:13 heya dark Oct 21 04:44:20 oh yeah, I should check your site on the g1 Oct 21 04:46:09 how do you like it so far? Oct 21 04:46:14 i went to android-dls.com it didn't take me to the mobile version automatically Oct 21 04:46:27 lots of new users registered today Oct 21 04:46:34 thats odd. it did in the emulator Oct 21 04:46:44 DarkriftX, mixed feelings. I'm still getting used to it. Things I like a lot. Others, not so much. Oct 21 04:46:46 try adding the ?template=pda to the end and see if it stays Oct 21 04:47:59 i think im going to get banned from androidcommunity soon. they removed your topic with my link in it and pm'd me not to have links on their site, then someone else keeps posting it and they keep removing it (i see posts in my analytics but htey are deleted before i can see them). there is a link to my site on thier g1 wiki that hasnt been deleted yet Oct 21 04:48:00 DarkriftX: U are the admin of android-dls.com ? Oct 21 04:48:05 yes Oct 21 04:48:26 i want to see who keeps linking to my site but i cant view the posts after they are deleted Oct 21 04:48:32 o.O Oct 21 04:48:36 well Oct 21 04:48:38 do you post everything that ends with .apk ? Oct 21 04:48:48 plusminus_, for now, yes Oct 21 04:48:58 have you given feedback on what doesnt work? Oct 21 04:49:08 DarkriftX, plusminus runs a site too Oct 21 04:49:21 * languish wonders if plusminus_'s question was sarcastic or not Oct 21 04:49:25 when i get feedback on it, if it doestn work it gets removed Oct 21 04:49:45 ive removed 5 apps now that were reported as bad apps or not working apk files Oct 21 04:49:51 DarkriftX: You have added (at least) one of my apps without asking and didn't even check if there is any chance that it might run on a device ... Oct 21 04:50:16 everything i found was available for download on other sites Oct 21 04:50:17 * languish now knows, yes, it was rhetorically sarcastic Oct 21 04:50:20 :) Oct 21 04:52:27 I actually have issues with how androidcommunity.com works. I like their fourms, but.. the way they're trying to sell shit that wasn't tested to work with the G1, as G1 compatible is just scummy Oct 21 04:53:24 they give the impression of being run for profit with little actual community emphasis Oct 21 04:53:30 im not trying to make money off it Oct 21 04:53:43 yeah, I'm talking about them Oct 21 04:53:43 im not even expecting adsense to cover the hosting cost Oct 21 04:54:00 i see lots of sites are, but mine is more of a hobby Oct 21 04:54:01 DarkriftX, you just need to work on respecting the devs a bit more ;) Oct 21 04:54:17 realize some of them are protective of their apps, even if they are allowing them to be freely disseminated Oct 21 04:54:22 if devs files get released on other sites and i find it, its not my fault Oct 21 04:54:32 if htey want it removed, they just have to contact me Oct 21 04:54:43 if you find an illegal file its still illegal o_O Oct 21 04:54:53 have you been checking the licence that comes with the apps? Oct 21 04:55:07 which is why copyrighted items generally get reported for the admin to remove Oct 21 04:55:10 that might be a good field to add Oct 21 04:55:19 most apps i find dont even have author sites Oct 21 04:55:24 because most authors dont even have a site Oct 21 04:55:37 its a moot point Oct 21 04:55:43 if i have an app of yours you dont want me serving Oct 21 04:55:45 tell me! Oct 21 04:56:08 or make it so that it doesnt get spread across the internet before i get to it Oct 21 04:56:33 im not going out of my way looking for unreleased apps to add. an author in here wrote an app called pinpoint and told me not to host it, so i didnt Oct 21 04:56:52 be back in about an hour Oct 21 04:58:06 you have learn young jedi... Oct 21 04:58:31 have grammer master jedi Oct 21 04:58:33 :P Oct 21 04:58:34 learn you have to young jedi... Oct 21 04:58:48 ;) Oct 21 04:58:49 ok, now bbl Oct 21 04:59:14 yoda speaks strange ;) Oct 21 04:59:41 DarkriftX: Remove AndNav, because it won't work anyway. Oct 21 05:01:44 do you have a working version you would like a link to? Oct 21 05:02:16 nope Oct 21 05:02:26 need a G1 for stable testing Oct 21 05:02:43 plusminus_, would you like me to test a little later? Oct 21 05:03:53 ahh nevermind, the testing you need done is likely beyond me for the moment Oct 21 05:04:07 * languish saw the other convo Oct 21 05:06:20 languish: currently there is not much to test for you expect some exceptions probably ;) Oct 21 05:06:55 do you own andnav.org ? Oct 21 05:07:29 plusminus_ lol :) good luck getting it running smooth Oct 21 05:08:21 Authors Site: http://www.andnav.org *I think Oct 21 05:08:21 Download: REMOVED PER AUTHOR REQUEST Oct 21 05:08:30 DarkriftX: yes Oct 21 05:09:05 languish: in the emulator it works pretty fine, but so tested it on a G1 and there was one showstopper after another... Oct 21 05:09:18 most apps will be that way Oct 21 05:09:22 but without testing how will you know? Oct 21 05:09:38 i have a "vote" feature to find out if they work, and im hoping ppl will give feedback Oct 21 05:09:50 i'll test it but for proper etsting i need my G1 Oct 21 05:10:22 well i hope you get it soon because other than a good file manager, that seems like a top of the list app Oct 21 05:10:35 file managers /o\ Oct 21 05:12:22 languish, when you get a moment, can you test to make sure the direct links from my forum will actually install (hoping my htaccess in the root is covering the whole hosting) Oct 21 05:12:32 DarkriftX: what's your web site? Oct 21 05:12:41 android-dls.com Oct 21 05:13:11 DarkriftX: what's dls? Oct 21 05:13:18 you have to register to see the downloads?? Oct 21 05:13:21 dl Oct 21 05:13:21 download sproperly Oct 21 05:13:25 only in the forums Oct 21 05:13:39 the main downloads will be public, but they wont work on device right now Oct 21 05:14:03 seems the device needs hard links and the download component i have doenst support that so i temp moved them to forums Oct 21 05:15:00 romainguy__: Any hints when there might be an SDK update? Oct 21 05:15:13 'night all Oct 21 05:15:27 i.e. your workaround on 'Improper call to JPEG-library' didn't solve them all :( Oct 21 05:15:29 plusminus_: why do you want an update? Oct 21 05:15:50 plusminus_: probably when the topic is below one, but not zero :-) Oct 21 05:16:47 grr Oct 21 05:17:07 so i have a listactivity, but it doesnt want to listen to the trackball Oct 21 05:17:18 i have to "tap" to get it into touch mode, then the trackball works Oct 21 05:17:36 for scrolling through list items Oct 21 05:17:50 umdk1d3: List might need initial focus Oct 21 05:17:51 weird Oct 21 05:17:58 are you messing up with focus and/or touch mode? Oct 21 05:18:15 btw the adapter was empty, then i notifyDataSetChanged once stuff comes in Oct 21 05:18:38 any developers think this is unreasonable? (asking for opinions, not to start a fight.. I want to know) http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=17&t=80&rb_v=viewtopic Oct 21 05:18:48 im not programatically playing with focus/touch modes afaik Oct 21 05:19:17 also, the list has a footerview attached Oct 21 05:19:36 DarkriftX: why do you want people to register to just read it? Oct 21 05:19:39 but naturally, with the original adapter empty, it assumes the entire list is empty, and displays the textview id.empty behind it Oct 21 05:19:55 umdk1d3: maybe the focus stays on the empty view or something Oct 21 05:20:02 DarkriftX: keep it open for reading Oct 21 05:20:03 I haven't seen this bug in months Oct 21 05:20:09 no one will register to read forums Oct 21 05:20:11 I wouldn't be surprised if it's a framework bug though Oct 21 05:20:25 hmm /me tries forcing selected when it comes in Oct 21 05:21:02 oh, sorry romain, ill move it up a level so you can read it Oct 21 05:21:34 the register part is because they are direct links to hosted files and i dont want crawler bots scraping the files from my hosting Oct 21 05:21:47 DarkriftX: thats what robots.txt is for :P Oct 21 05:21:57 the bots im worried about dont read that Oct 21 05:22:04 the post says the following Oct 21 05:22:05 If you are the author of a file I host here and you wish it to be removed please either email me at admin at android-dls dot com from the domain where your app development is done, or with a link to where you say you do not want the file released. This is not done to make your life harder but so that someone that does not like an app cannot pretend to be the author and get it removed. If you are unable to do either, let me know and I w Oct 21 05:22:05 ill temp remove the app until I can find out more. Oct 21 05:22:54 romainguy__: i kinda fixed it Oct 21 05:23:08 odd, but doing a setSelection(0) after the adapter is filled fixes it Oct 21 05:23:10 as developers, do you find that request unreasonable? Oct 21 05:23:21 umdk1d3: file a bug with a simple repro case :) Oct 21 05:23:22 even though its still in touch mode at that point in time Oct 21 05:24:03 wait wtf now it doesnt work :/ Oct 21 05:24:13 DarkriftX: speaking as an IP Lawyer. Censoring in that manner can cause you legal pain Oct 21 05:24:14 try a requestFocus() :p Oct 21 05:24:28 censoring? Oct 21 05:24:28 DarkriftX: you are better offf simply honoring DMCA requests that come in and doing *nothing else* Oct 21 05:25:02 DarkriftX: taking down files without proper legal notice = censoring to most people. call it whatever you like :) Oct 21 05:25:24 meaning i shouldnt take them down if someone requests it? Oct 21 05:25:34 DannyB: but sadly most devs dont understand how to even do a proper dmca c+d Oct 21 05:25:35 im not trying to piss off every author Oct 21 05:25:46 DarkriftX: the point is the laws (at least in the US) that grant you safe harbor only if you refuse to exercise control outside honoring requests Oct 21 05:25:56 DarkriftX: i handle most of code.google.com Oct 21 05:26:01 in terms of legal notices Oct 21 05:26:11 romainguy__: yay requestFocus did the trick ^.^ Oct 21 05:26:14 I've pissed off plenty of authors :) Oct 21 05:26:36 The ones who won't go through the process are generally the ones who are going to be a pain in your ass anyway Oct 21 05:26:46 DarkriftX: if its public, guess you have the right to host it Oct 21 05:26:53 hrmmmm Oct 21 05:26:57 i disagree Oct 21 05:26:59 muthu_: strongly disagree Oct 21 05:27:39 that's how google works Oct 21 05:27:40 i think they have the right to ask for it removed, but i also dont think that anyone willing to register to say "take my app down" should be listened to because they might just not like that app Oct 21 05:27:40 some gentoo packages cant be put into the portage tree because of the license they are under Oct 21 05:27:44 muthu_: no, not really Oct 21 05:28:16 for example, sun really likes being the /only/ source online for jdk stuff Oct 21 05:28:18 DarkriftX: making the choice about why and when you should take down an app is legally very dangerous. Hence my suggrestion you simply honor DMCA requests and ignore the rest Oct 21 05:28:31 what you do is of course your choice :) Oct 21 05:28:47 I'm just telling yo if your site becomes popular you may find yourself on the wrong end of a lawsuit for trying to do the right thing Oct 21 05:28:51 and you'll lose Oct 21 05:29:04 and it will cost you many thousands while losing :( Oct 21 05:29:09 sad but true Oct 21 05:29:11 DarkriftX: if your trying to help devs, you might provide a simple example of a dmca c+d they should send you Oct 21 05:29:21 are you talking about someone sueing me because i DID take down an app? Oct 21 05:29:25 there is really just that one clause they need to include verbatim Oct 21 05:29:35 you'll get sued for taking down Oct 21 05:29:38 you'll get sued for not taking down Oct 21 05:29:48 haha Oct 21 05:30:11 the best thing to be is always bankrupt Oct 21 05:30:15 lol Oct 21 05:30:18 * DarkriftX puts on his rambo headband and says BRING EM ON! Oct 21 05:30:26 muthu_, it would be a great excuse! Oct 21 05:30:28 DarkriftX: yes, most start out feeling that way Oct 21 05:30:32 then they get deposed 8 or 9 times Oct 21 05:30:35 and decide it's not worth it Oct 21 05:30:44 * umdk1d3 has delt with far too many dmca notices in his lifetime Oct 21 05:31:44 i'm not trying to depress you (i'm in fact, a very vigorous fair use person, and do a lot for the cause). I'm simply telling you the realities of running a popular forum that will host applications :) Oct 21 05:32:13 the users can sue you too Oct 21 05:32:18 if the app steals their data Oct 21 05:32:20 Lawsuits are inveitable, even if you have done nothing wrong. The real question is whether you will win without having to spend 7 years fighting it nor not Oct 21 05:32:33 anyhoo, bedtime for me Oct 21 05:33:09 night Oct 21 05:33:11 I should go too Oct 21 05:33:17 stupid presentation at 7am tomorrow @!# Oct 21 05:34:22 lol Oct 21 05:34:35 nito Oct 21 05:34:52 gn Oct 21 05:36:57 Just wrote my first Android & Java program! ! and it works woohooo! Oct 21 05:37:21 nice Oct 21 05:37:47 yeah Oct 21 05:38:16 I'm pretty awesome Oct 21 05:38:17 :) Oct 21 05:38:27 and it's not "Hello, world!" Oct 21 05:38:32 it's a functioning text-game! Oct 21 05:41:47 romainguy__: presentation? lol, what? Oct 21 05:42:41 some Google Developer Day stuff Oct 21 05:42:44 romainguy: is pitching his revolutionary UI stuff to sergey ;) Oct 21 05:43:09 multitouch!! Oct 21 05:45:10 lol, nice Oct 21 05:45:43 muthu_: did you ever get confirmation that the capacitive screen is multitouch capable but it's a software limitation. Oct 21 05:45:54 or that there are infact multiple electrodes under the hood. Oct 21 05:46:02 unix_infidel: its just software afaik Oct 21 05:46:38 hopefully some good willed hacker does a tear down. Oct 21 05:47:27 lot of good stuff happen once android open sourced Oct 21 05:47:59 * unix_infidel thinks that alone will bring many converts. Oct 21 05:48:09 unix_infidel: what? multi-touch? Oct 21 05:48:21 romainguy__: yes'm Oct 21 05:48:25 ah Oct 21 05:49:04 strange.. whenever I change orientation on the emulator my app "restarts" (I think it reruns OnStart()) Oct 21 05:49:05 romainguy__: people are still looking to be wowed and voodoo'd into buying things. american consumerism didn't go anywhere... Oct 21 05:49:12 waldo_: that's normal Oct 21 05:49:34 unix_infidel: things are not always as simple as they seem Oct 21 05:49:41 romainguy__ weird. what if I want the application to just change orientation and continue? My views are "stretchable" Oct 21 05:49:58 waldo_: that's what the application does, it saves its state and keeps running Oct 21 05:50:05 waldo_: all the application bundled in the system do that Oct 21 05:50:16 it does? it seems to re-start for me... Oct 21 05:50:25 they restart Oct 21 05:50:30 but it doesn't look like they restart Oct 21 05:50:35 because they save/restore their state Oct 21 05:50:39 wait... "keeps running" and "restarts" isn't teh same Oct 21 05:50:40 oh I see Oct 21 05:50:54 maybe it's cuz I never used that icicle thing Oct 21 05:50:57 * unix_infidel can only imagine. Oct 21 05:51:06 that's related to saving/loading states right? Oct 21 05:51:26 unix_infidel: apparently not :) Oct 21 05:52:12 romainguy__: was being facetious. I cant even begin to fathom the awesomeness that is the source tree you fellas are about to unleash. Oct 21 05:52:47 ok back Oct 21 05:53:20 DarkriftX Oct 21 05:53:24 sup Oct 21 05:53:59 romainguy__ why when it "restarts" on orientation change does it rerun onStart()? And doesn't "restore" the screen's previous contents Oct 21 05:54:05 on the mobile version look at "Moving Downlaods To Forums" Oct 21 05:54:15 (yes I spelled it the same way you did) Oct 21 05:54:21 lol Oct 21 05:54:23 :D Oct 21 05:55:08 DarkriftX, btw.. unless you live outside the US in some country with no IP laws of consequence.. I suggest you take Mr. B's advice there Oct 21 05:55:40 you ppl are confusing Oct 21 05:55:43 lol Oct 21 05:57:00 fixed typo Oct 21 05:58:00 hmm Oct 21 05:58:37 languish, could you test one or 2 of the forum downloads and let me know if the direct links to the apk files are allowing them to install from the browser? Oct 21 05:58:58 it was confirmed by someone but someone else just told me that a forum link was just offering to download the file not install it Oct 21 05:59:51 does it require an account to log in to the forum ? Oct 21 06:00:01 * languish lazy Oct 21 06:00:04 lol Oct 21 06:00:09 register and ill approve you Oct 21 06:00:13 without having to check email Oct 21 06:00:15 well duh Oct 21 06:00:16 lol Oct 21 06:00:32 *groan* *grumble* Oct 21 06:00:45 lol Oct 21 06:01:15 what was trhat site again? .. now where's my browser.. dangnabbit.. darn browser's always hidin itself from me these days Oct 21 06:03:23 android-dls.com Oct 21 06:03:29 i know Oct 21 06:03:31 i was kidding.. Oct 21 06:03:36 activated Oct 21 06:03:37 ok registered Oct 21 06:03:40 'k Oct 21 06:04:20 i originally wasnt going to require reg for downloads, but with direct links it could be a bad idea to let that open to anyone Oct 21 06:04:25 buddy Oct 21 06:04:35 I just tried logging in to the forum downloads section Oct 21 06:04:41 and it sploded Oct 21 06:04:43 its either that or make a captcha for downloads which would still be a problem installing on device Oct 21 06:04:51 Warning: JForum::require_once(distribution/.php) [function.JForum-require-once]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/content/d/a/r/darkrift411/html/android/forum/includes/application.php on line 144 Oct 21 06:04:55 wtf Oct 21 06:05:27 oh, probably because i manually activated your account Oct 21 06:05:34 go to home and it should work Oct 21 06:05:49 * languish gets in the car Oct 21 06:05:50 anyone know offhand how to install an .apk to the emulator for the console? Oct 21 06:05:59 adb install name.apk Oct 21 06:06:03 ah adb! Oct 21 06:06:03 thanks Oct 21 06:06:48 DarkriftX, what app you want me to try Oct 21 06:06:56 any Oct 21 06:07:03 i just want to know if the direct linking works Oct 21 06:07:23 hmm device not found Oct 21 06:07:37 you have to load the emulatore first i think Oct 21 06:07:42 oh gotcha Oct 21 06:09:26 argh.. unsigned Oct 21 06:10:49 hey I think -f forced it! Oct 21 06:10:55 lol Oct 21 06:11:03 good ole -f Oct 21 06:12:14 lol, jChat eh languish? Oct 21 06:12:15 seems to work... Oct 21 06:12:17 love the -f Oct 21 06:12:22 not in --help either Oct 21 06:12:26 nice Oct 21 06:12:31 good to know :) Oct 21 06:12:39 I could be wrong but I THINK it worked :) Oct 21 06:12:50 it might have been an old one in there aleady.. definitely didnt' get an error tho Oct 21 06:13:29 you will see it appear in your list if so Oct 21 06:13:29 languish, did jchat not work? Oct 21 06:13:35 it was already in there Oct 21 06:13:41 a previous version anyway Oct 21 06:13:45 DarkriftX, i fifn't install jchat, I grabbed the flashlight app instead Oct 21 06:13:51 it downloaded, installed, works Oct 21 06:14:01 nice! Oct 21 06:14:16 could you please rate it on that topic for me lol Oct 21 06:14:25 and now that i know my direct links work, im happy Oct 21 06:14:37 I'm trying to Oct 21 06:15:01 the android browser won;'t allow me to select the poll response Oct 21 06:15:07 it highlights it Oct 21 06:15:11 ouch, thats not good Oct 21 06:15:13 but I can't "check" it Oct 21 06:15:15 try space while its highlited Oct 21 06:15:36 no Oct 21 06:15:55 thats definately not a good thing for a browser to not work with Oct 21 06:15:56 it's possible it's checked but I don't SEE that it is Oct 21 06:16:02 oh, i c Oct 21 06:16:08 click submit and see if it works Oct 21 06:16:30 will adb work with the actual phones tomorrow? Oct 21 06:16:30 vote seems to have worked Oct 21 06:16:53 k Oct 21 06:16:58 wait Oct 21 06:17:01 maybe not Oct 21 06:17:03 waldo_: yes Oct 21 06:17:07 was there 1 vote on that app anyway? Oct 21 06:17:10 unless you use Windows, you will need the USB driver Oct 21 06:17:18 I don't know when this will be made available Oct 21 06:17:22 but probably very soon Oct 21 06:17:24 cool Oct 21 06:17:30 with Linux or Mac OS X it works right away Oct 21 06:17:39 I just tried flashlight... works different than the iPhone version... Oct 21 06:17:40 :) Oct 21 06:17:44 heh Oct 21 06:17:53 what's different about it? Oct 21 06:18:08 hmm Oct 21 06:18:10 the iPhone one lets you run your finger across the white block and it scrolls to different flashlight "colors" Oct 21 06:18:16 blue, red, etc. Oct 21 06:18:25 I odn't like not being able to close the browser, as it leaves the last page I wa on up. Oct 21 06:18:28 don't konw what that's about.. I think thre are some other features if you scroll the other dirction Oct 21 06:18:34 what are the tradeoffs between BitmapFactory.decodeStream and decodeByteArray? Oct 21 06:18:34 like brightness or soemthing Oct 21 06:18:44 ahh Oct 21 06:18:51 I'm sure more functionality will come with time Oct 21 06:18:57 or some other app Oct 21 06:18:58 lol Oct 21 06:18:59 i see Photostream has some flag that is forcing decodeByteArray Oct 21 06:19:12 for network resources at least Oct 21 06:19:41 I'd like to knock whoever applied the screen protector at the factory, upside the head Oct 21 06:19:49 they did it croocked Oct 21 06:20:02 I was gonna leave it on and tear the little tab off Oct 21 06:20:03 lol Oct 21 06:20:06 i hate that crap Oct 21 06:20:10 but the tab came off anyway Oct 21 06:20:13 i used to spend like an hour putting mine on Oct 21 06:20:14 and it's still crooked Oct 21 06:20:23 this isn't just a little crooked Oct 21 06:20:25 it's bad Oct 21 06:20:34 poor QA at the factory Oct 21 06:20:52 I say that for other reasons too Oct 21 06:21:03 lol Oct 21 06:21:08 inside of the back case was scratched Oct 21 06:21:17 I mean, it doesn't show.. so not a big deal Oct 21 06:21:28 but still... a new device shouldn't have *any* scratched Oct 21 06:21:32 *scratches Oct 21 06:21:50 probably rushing them out due to demand lol Oct 21 06:21:54 yeah Oct 21 06:22:33 I'm gonna grab my jewlers kit and make sure all the little screws are properly firm Oct 21 06:22:47 two of them look loose Oct 21 06:23:17 ouch Oct 21 06:23:40 taaz: what are the tradeoffs between BitmapFactory.decodeStream and decodeByteArray? << decodeStream has a bug, it doesn't work over slow connections to decode images from the web Oct 21 06:23:40 thx a lot for testing for me. helps a lot Oct 21 06:23:52 (we fixed it, it will be part of a future update) Oct 21 06:24:25 romainguy: how does that bug work? Oct 21 06:24:26 languish: you don't really need the screen protector Oct 21 06:24:45 romainguy, you don't see how I treat screens :/ Oct 21 06:24:47 jasta: a skip() that fails if the input stream buffer is not filled enough Oct 21 06:24:51 WTF Oct 21 06:24:53 ahh Oct 21 06:24:53 romainguy: ah. thanks. i hadn't run the code yet to find that out. is the idea that decodeStream should be the prefered way to do that? Oct 21 06:24:58 languish: this screen is pretty tough :) Oct 21 06:25:02 this is getting ridiculous Oct 21 06:25:03 taaz: yes Oct 21 06:25:16 I removed the screen protector to reapply it straight Oct 21 06:25:25 there's a fucking fat old fingerprint under it Oct 21 06:25:34 and it's not mine :/ Oct 21 06:25:38 languish: also I'm not sure if that protection (which is probably not meant to be used with the phone anyway) doesn't interfere with the touch screen :) Oct 21 06:25:51 languish: i totally understand your frustration. when i got my gold crown there was some dust on the diamonds. Oct 21 06:25:52 romainguy, it's been working just fine Oct 21 06:26:15 taaz, was that sarcasm? Oct 21 06:26:17 please use tags Oct 21 06:26:28 languish: just a bit, yes Oct 21 06:27:08 LOL Oct 21 06:27:18 taaz, I don't have any tolerance for poor quality assurance from established co's like HTC Oct 21 06:27:37 go easy on them, they probably outsourced their labor to the US :S Oct 21 06:27:38 * DarkriftX hides Oct 21 06:27:46 languish: but you're talking about the little plastic film that's supposed to be removed right? :) Oct 21 06:27:48 we have two G1's, my wife's is fine. mine came put together by a 3yr old Oct 21 06:27:59 romainguy, and two loose screws Oct 21 06:28:08 that's a real problem :) Oct 21 06:28:17 return it Oct 21 06:28:19 and some scratches on the inside of the back cover Oct 21 06:28:29 maybe in his confusion he accidentally put 2x the ram in it! lol Oct 21 06:28:36 no, they're not problems per se (the loose screws could have been if I hadn't noticed them) Oct 21 06:29:13 languish: loose screws and a potentially damaged shell are issues; a crooked screen protection is not :) Oct 21 06:29:18 but when you get a new toy, you like it to be all nice and shiney and well.. in perfect condition Oct 21 06:29:34 You wouldn't want to get a new comic, and find out page 8 had creases Oct 21 06:29:41 sure, you could still read it Oct 21 06:29:43 but... Oct 21 06:29:52 anyone here try that "invisible shield" pseudo-case? Oct 21 06:29:52 languish, if you find a *working* file manager anywhere (and the author doesnt say not to release it) please let me knpow Oct 21 06:29:54 I just agreed with you Oct 21 06:29:58 ppl are looking for them everywhere Oct 21 06:30:05 instead of venting here you should do something about it :) Oct 21 06:30:11 romainguy, a fat finger print UNDER the screen protection is uncool though Oct 21 06:30:26 romainguy, and give up my new G1 for a refurb? Oct 21 06:30:31 :| Oct 21 06:30:41 i wonder if they have refurbs yet :S Oct 21 06:30:42 languish: I *personally* don't think so because I always remove the "screen protections" Oct 21 06:31:11 languish: it's probably too early to get refurbs :) Oct 21 06:31:42 (that said, after a year living with prototypes of phones, I don't really care any more about that kind of issue, so my pov is biased :) Oct 21 06:32:06 I mean, my G1 has 5 of 6 gigantic serial numbers carved in it ^^ Oct 21 06:32:06 ok ouch, can't check alerts while on a call? Oct 21 06:32:13 ouch Oct 21 06:32:46 my ouch was directed at that gigantic serial number comment, i can just imagine lol Oct 21 06:32:49 languish: press Home, then you can Oct 21 06:33:10 the reasoning is that you don't want to accidentally press anything while on a call Oct 21 06:33:15 nod Oct 21 06:33:17 so it has to be user initiated Oct 21 06:33:19 makes sense Oct 21 06:33:32 it's a bit awkward but that's the best solution without having proximity sensors Oct 21 06:33:41 (so far) Oct 21 06:33:43 anyway Oct 21 06:33:46 good night Oct 21 06:33:54 phone OSs that make sense... what is the world coming to? Oct 21 06:33:59 gn Oct 21 06:34:08 'night romain Oct 21 06:34:12 and thanks for your input Oct 21 06:34:31 which you're likely to hear again :) Oct 21 06:37:14 i have a progress dialog view, using the example apis. it's initiated with showDialog(id) with an onclick listener. how do i then hide clear the progress bar? Oct 21 06:44:25 Being the cheap and petty bastard that I am, I hope T-Mobile decides to *give* all the pre-order customers the 3.5mm headphone jack adaptor. Oct 21 06:44:45 I'd be willing to drop by a tmo store to pick it up Oct 21 06:51:35 anyone working on android porting? Oct 21 06:53:42 praveend: I imagine that mostly happens in various more hardware-oriented forums; I haven't seen (m)any folks discussing porting hardware in here Oct 21 06:54:37 do u know any forums or irc channels related to android porting? Oct 21 06:55:02 not offhand, no Oct 21 06:55:23 I presume you've tried searching for "android hardware ports" and things like that? Oct 21 06:55:54 hey guys.. learning more tonight, so bear with the nub questions. i'm trying to get my app to sleep for testing, Thread.currentThread().sleep(5000); doesn't seem to work. What should i use? Oct 21 06:56:06 praveend google for "porting android to" Oct 21 06:56:11 include the quotes Oct 21 07:06:12 anyone awake? Oct 21 07:07:07 anyone notice the search applet 404s? Oct 21 07:09:15 yes Oct 21 07:09:24 but thats on google maps in australia.. unrelated i think Oct 21 07:10:00 i was very quick to blame ubuntu.. then realised google maps in australia isnt actually working ;) Oct 21 07:10:02 it seems to search to ap_index Oct 21 07:10:07 which 404s on google.com Oct 21 07:10:35 I have seen google fail before..but it usally isnt an all day thing Oct 21 07:11:39 how about all those people who couldn't access gmail ;) Oct 21 07:12:48 the last time that happened I think it was a disk failure Oct 21 07:12:55 or nas failure. Oct 21 07:13:21 funny thing.. same thing happend at apple during the mobileme launch Oct 21 07:21:25 Traveler2: is it working for you now? Oct 21 07:21:42 Traveler2: I tried once and it failed, then I tried ~2 minutes later and it seems to be working for me Oct 21 07:23:27 wow Oct 21 07:23:31 and mean wow Oct 21 07:23:55 I can't believe tmo published and shipped that pdf manual Oct 21 07:24:09 languish: haha :o) Oct 21 07:24:27 gdsx, I'm in... dude Oct 21 07:24:32 no I'm not in a dude Oct 21 07:24:32 just Oct 21 07:24:33 DUDE Oct 21 07:24:58 haha, DannyB doesn't wanna hear it :oP Oct 21 07:25:02 hahaha Oct 21 07:25:23 This is like the epitomy of having no pride in your work Oct 21 07:25:41 it's awesome how there's humor in some of the warnings anf such Oct 21 07:25:51 but the irc-level typos... Oct 21 07:31:51 naw the search widget hasnt worked once for me today Oct 21 07:32:02 always a 404 for ap_index Oct 21 07:32:16 hmm Oct 21 07:32:36 Traveler2: you got your device today? Oct 21 07:32:40 yes Oct 21 07:32:47 showed up at 10am Oct 21 07:33:10 Traveler2: when you start typing something in the search widget, do you get any suggestions? Oct 21 07:33:16 yes Oct 21 07:33:23 it seems to 404 after a few redirects Oct 21 07:33:32 I guess I could sniff the wifi Oct 21 07:33:44 but that sounds like work Oct 21 07:33:44 ok. If you hit the search button from the browser, does it work? Oct 21 07:33:57 does it work when you you're using edge/3g not wifi? Oct 21 07:34:08 yeah, that's another good thing to check Oct 21 07:34:36 searhc widget and the search box in the browser both 404 on ap_index Oct 21 07:34:49 3g, and wifi the same Oct 21 07:35:11 does it do it when you use the browser not th widget too? Oct 21 07:35:18 both fail Oct 21 07:35:20 oh, gdsx asked that Oct 21 07:35:30 Traveler2, reset the device from scratch Oct 21 07:35:36 its after a few redirects Oct 21 07:35:40 hmm... Oct 21 07:35:42 so its gotta be on the app end at google Oct 21 07:36:06 I should drive down the street and make a rucus in their cafe Oct 21 07:36:14 haha Oct 21 07:36:24 'Hey look at this BUggy Google software' Oct 21 07:36:34 Traveler2: it could be a TMO issue Oct 21 07:36:37 'what kinda moron 302s me to a 404' Oct 21 07:36:40 1G2C ? Oct 21 07:36:42 naw.. its gotta be google Oct 21 07:36:42 :/ Oct 21 07:37:13 it's not tmo if he's using wifi Oct 21 07:37:21 and it's happening on the wifi Oct 21 07:37:57 though, you may have something cached on the phone that's breaking something Oct 21 07:37:58 its google.. its their server that sends a bad 302 Oct 21 07:38:28 I doubt search results are marked cacheable in the headers Oct 21 07:38:36 Traveler2: the thing is, I'm not seeing it here Oct 21 07:38:46 yeah, it works fine for me Oct 21 07:38:48 where ya at? Oct 21 07:38:57 Traveler2: MV/sunnyvale Oct 21 07:39:00 hm. Oct 21 07:39:02 nyc Oct 21 07:39:25 It was dead in South san jose... also at work on tasman/great america Oct 21 07:39:34 on 3g Oct 21 07:39:46 Traveler2: what was? Oct 21 07:39:52 the search Oct 21 07:40:09 Traveler2, did you do so much with the phone config already that you're not up for a full reset? (not just removing the battery) Oct 21 07:40:15 doing it fixed a ton of problems for me Oct 21 07:40:23 naw.. I havnt removed the battery yet Oct 21 07:40:29 ok don't remove the battery Oct 21 07:40:33 just do this instead... Oct 21 07:41:08 to reset the G1 completely: 1) turn off the phone. 2) press and hold the HOME and POWER buttons for at least 20 seconds until you see an image with a triangular icon 3) open the keyboard 4) press alt l (that's an L) 5) press alt w 6) when the process completes on the screen press and hold HOME and BACK keys for a couple of seconds. Oct 21 07:41:19 ugh.. I need to write an app to quickly swich the audio settings. Oct 21 07:41:48 Traveler2: from what to what? Oct 21 07:41:52 digging deep for mute is a pita Oct 21 07:42:07 Traveler2: hold the power button Oct 21 07:42:12 Traveler2: or hold the volume-down button Oct 21 07:42:39 languish: you're not joking are you Oct 21 07:42:45 I was told you don't need to keep power pressed, just hold the home key for the 20 secs, and you don't need to hit alt -L either. but I did the process the way I described Oct 21 07:42:48 thats seriously the reset procedure? Oct 21 07:42:58 hehe Oct 21 07:43:13 naw.. its just a test to see if you can produce the claw hand Oct 21 07:43:30 there seem to be different levels of reset :) Oct 21 07:43:33 stand on one foot.. align yourself so that your nose is facing jupiter.. recite the alphabet backwards.. ring your next of kin and ask their permission.. enter the 62 digit sequence .. followed by the square root of 56781 Oct 21 07:43:43 this one is what t-mobile tells people to do when they're out of ideas Oct 21 07:43:51 heh Oct 21 07:43:56 I bet thats often Oct 21 07:43:57 :D Oct 21 07:43:57 and it worked Oct 21 07:44:10 they should just start with it Oct 21 07:44:12 :| Oct 21 07:44:27 i feel for the t-mobile people.. i'd imagine the vast majority of G1 adopters are young techies Oct 21 07:44:41 but i used to do tech support for general public.. including 80 year olds etc Oct 21 07:45:12 people have a real G1 already that don't work for the Big G? Oct 21 07:45:18 "whats that luv? can you speak a bit louder?" .. "slow down a bit.. huh ? i wish my nephew was here... " Oct 21 07:45:18 yeah, I was cordial, even nice to the guy, he turned out to do a decent job and got the issues fixed Oct 21 07:45:41 I thought the drop date was the 22nd Oct 21 07:45:52 tomorrow is the big day hey Oct 21 07:45:55 languish, have you tried any other apps out? Oct 21 07:45:56 Adamant, they're staggering the pre-order deliveries Oct 21 07:46:05 DarkriftX, from your site, not yet Oct 21 07:46:13 languish: nice! congrats on picking on up! Oct 21 07:46:17 *one Oct 21 07:46:22 Adamant, make that 2 :) Oct 21 07:46:26 got one for my wife too Oct 21 07:46:26 mine showed up today.. I dont work for google Oct 21 07:46:34 wow, that would have actually been insulting if I hadn't corrected it Oct 21 07:46:36 :( Oct 21 07:46:44 actually, she was the one that insisted, even before I had decided between a G1 or a touch pro Oct 21 07:47:10 alrigth lemme try this reset Oct 21 07:47:31 you'll need to reinitialize the phone with your gmail addy after Oct 21 07:47:41 which I suspect you already suspect Oct 21 07:48:16 after the reset, give your data connection a minute before using it Oct 21 07:50:53 in those instrauctions.. the last is "when the process completes" Oct 21 07:51:02 6) when the process completes on the screen press and hold HOME and BACK keys for a couple of seconds. Oct 21 07:51:02 [03:41] ugh.. I need to write an app to quickly swich the audio settings. Oct 21 07:51:03 how does one know its done Oct 21 07:51:15 it'll be onvious Oct 21 07:51:54 if it's not obvious, it doesn't take long.. when it doesn't do anything anymore for 30 seconds, it's done Oct 21 07:54:42 ok.. booting it up.. signing in again Oct 21 07:55:26 nope.. still broke Oct 21 07:55:35 www.google.com/ap_index does not exist Oct 21 07:59:48 :/ Oct 21 07:59:55 sorry to put ya through that for nothing man Oct 21 08:00:25 ya.. not so bad.. just gota download everything again Oct 21 08:01:52 have you installed any non market apps? Oct 21 08:02:00 no Oct 21 08:04:45 wtf google wtf Oct 21 08:05:12 once I get everything sorted out again.. Ill try and take a pacekt trace Oct 21 08:05:19 I get different results for the same search between the mobile version of google (in browser) and on the dekstop Oct 21 08:05:25 and the mobile versions resuklts suck Oct 21 08:05:43 maybe they only return mobile brwoser friendly results? Oct 21 08:05:52 that would be annoying Oct 21 08:05:54 avoid stuff thats all flash or something Oct 21 08:06:01 prolly like the smut filter Oct 21 08:06:06 bet you can turn it off Oct 21 08:06:31 what about searching vai the browser/page instead of the search tool/widget Oct 21 08:06:47 that's what I just did Oct 21 08:06:51 huh Oct 21 08:07:12 that sux Oct 21 08:07:16 wait Oct 21 08:07:20 suddenly it's working right Oct 21 08:07:23 wtf Oct 21 08:07:24 do some comparison between what is missing Oct 21 08:07:27 oh :S Oct 21 08:07:39 i went in to settings, didn't change anything, hit the back button on the G1 Oct 21 08:07:44 and now getting proper results Oct 21 08:07:47 at least my contacts are in the cloud.. tanks jebus for small favors Oct 21 08:07:47 :| Oct 21 08:10:07 wow, my analytics shows if the visitor was in landscape or portrait mode :) Oct 21 08:10:16 320x480 vs 480x320 Oct 21 08:10:36 DarkriftX: Is that Google analytics or something else? Oct 21 08:10:43 woopra Oct 21 08:10:48 much better and real time Oct 21 08:10:59 beta is closing very soon, if you want to try it, sign up NOW Oct 21 08:11:21 anyways, i see i had a visitor on a g1 running opera :S Oct 21 08:11:23 so it must work Oct 21 08:12:47 getting 218KB/s Oct 21 08:12:50 on 3g Oct 21 08:13:09 two different testing sites, about the same Oct 21 08:13:10 nice Oct 21 08:13:21 thats better then some dsl Oct 21 08:13:25 nod Oct 21 08:13:40 did you guys read that article about 4g? Oct 21 08:13:50 yeha Oct 21 08:13:54 *shrug* Oct 21 08:13:57 wasnt much, but sounds like something to look forward to Oct 21 08:14:04 sure, in canada Oct 21 08:14:07 :| Oct 21 08:14:18 we won't be getting it for a looooong while Oct 21 08:14:28 3g is better then some dsl Oct 21 08:14:33 though, wimax may make everyone just not care Oct 21 08:14:47 isnt 4g wimax or LTE Oct 21 08:15:00 what i read said 4g was related to wimax Oct 21 08:15:13 unless i read it wrong Oct 21 08:15:18 there's some difference, I forget what it was Oct 21 08:15:27 at leats from the carriers perspective Oct 21 08:15:29 *least Oct 21 08:15:42 which is why they don't advertise it as 4g Oct 21 08:18:42 still no luck on a working file manager Oct 21 08:18:55 ive searched all over, keep finding the same 3 that dont work Oct 21 08:21:28 hey do you have any more insde key info Oct 21 08:21:42 looking at the apps in 'manage apps' there are a few that dont seem to have shortcuts Oct 21 08:21:50 bugreport Oct 21 08:22:35 or field test Oct 21 08:24:23 they're not supposed to have shortcuts Oct 21 08:24:33 yet anyway Oct 21 08:29:55 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 21 08:41:19 ugh.. I need tcpdump in the firmware Oct 21 08:55:52 ok Oct 21 08:55:55 NOW I'm pissed Oct 21 08:56:01 pacman's not in the market Oct 21 08:56:04 BASTARDS Oct 21 08:56:07 :| Oct 21 08:58:52 they rebooted the maket ..its damn near empty Oct 21 08:59:29 hahaha the barcode for the G1 doesn't result in a product in shopsavvy Oct 21 08:59:36 +hit Oct 21 09:00:06 you'd think they'd put in some data or an easter egg for the G1 barcode Oct 21 09:01:58 lol Oct 21 09:06:57 ppl get to my site from google with soem of the oddest searches, such as "android transparent background logo" Oct 21 09:11:27 hrm Oct 21 09:11:43 I really don't like how the vertical scrolling works Oct 21 09:13:19 the edges of the screen don't detect the gesture to scroll up/down so I have to swipe up/down where pressable items are Oct 21 09:13:36 which means sometimes they get activated Oct 21 09:14:18 and I still get the wrong visual que from the scroll bars Oct 21 09:14:50 I do like how the dock works though Oct 21 09:14:59 and the icon management Oct 21 09:15:54 Though when I rename a new folder, it'd be nice to not have to delete the word "Folder" then type the new foldername Oct 21 09:16:10 lol Oct 21 09:16:13 hello pjv Oct 21 09:16:42 have you heard anything about androids fortune on the g1? Oct 21 09:16:52 ? Oct 21 09:17:29 ehm, no, what's there to hear? Oct 21 09:17:35 if it works Oct 21 09:17:52 well, doesn't it work? Oct 21 09:17:55 trying to get feedback on non market apps Oct 21 09:18:07 i wouldnt know.... no g1 here :( Oct 21 09:18:20 neither here :-( Oct 21 09:18:36 I haven't heard any feedback yet Oct 21 09:18:52 I am interested in getting feedback though Oct 21 09:18:57 ? Oct 21 09:19:18 well keep an eye on my forum because i setup each app with a poll for ppl who test it Oct 21 09:19:33 * DarkriftX wonders what the ? is for Oct 21 09:19:48 was wondering what he wanted tested Oct 21 09:19:56 androids fortune Oct 21 09:20:04 but i didnt want to keep bugging you to test stuff Oct 21 09:20:11 i know you are enjoying your toy :) Oct 21 09:20:17 fuck Oct 21 09:20:22 talk to me Oct 21 09:20:22 sup Dialekt Oct 21 09:20:26 lol Oct 21 09:20:28 sup Oct 21 09:20:54 DarkriftX, if I could do the poll from the device I'd be happy to Oct 21 09:21:00 I don;t think it worked Oct 21 09:21:08 it did Oct 21 09:21:10 when I did the poll, there was already 1 vote on that item Oct 21 09:21:18 when I checked, it didn't show 2 votes Oct 21 09:21:20 yours, and i voted for it also Oct 21 09:21:29 since you said it worked Oct 21 09:21:48 I just took breakfast with a local newspaper with the first news item on the G1 Oct 21 09:21:55 can you see exactly who voted for it? Oct 21 09:21:57 ... and it contained at least a dozen errors Oct 21 09:21:58 as admin.. Oct 21 09:22:00 :-( Oct 21 09:22:19 pjv, yeah.. a lot of that going around Oct 21 09:22:29 Installs and works on device 100% 100% [ 2 ] x Oct 21 09:22:34 I've been talking to t-mobile reps who are misinformed Oct 21 09:22:38 STORM Oct 21 09:22:49 DarkriftX, I know.. but can you see WHO voted. Oct 21 09:22:50 not sure languish but it had 0 when i voted Oct 21 09:22:56 ah Oct 21 09:22:59 ok hmm Oct 21 09:23:00 then you voted and it was 2 Oct 21 09:23:07 maybe it did take my vote then Oct 21 09:23:11 i voted when you were telling me you couldnt check the box Oct 21 09:23:17 ah Oct 21 09:23:20 ok that makes more sense Oct 21 09:23:32 i knew I saw a vote there before I got my vote through Oct 21 09:23:37 so browser bug, radio buttons dont show well Oct 21 09:23:41 nod Oct 21 09:24:03 maybe try a different type of radio button Oct 21 09:24:13 selectable checkbox Oct 21 09:24:18 its a built in php functions Oct 21 09:24:23 phpbb* Oct 21 09:24:28 it's php, it can be changed :) Oct 21 09:25:00 just don't ask me how "/ Oct 21 09:25:05 lol Oct 21 09:28:05 is there some location for custome ring tones? Oct 21 09:29:02 just load your mp3 in Oct 21 09:29:12 and long press it or menu it or something Oct 21 09:29:20 my wife figured it out and did it on hers Oct 21 09:29:34 I think maybe she did it from the music app Oct 21 09:31:39 it's be massively lame if i used a Mortal Kombat ringtone huh Oct 21 09:31:42 *it'd Oct 21 09:37:12 thinking about using goldfrapp's strict machine for my G1 ringtone Oct 21 09:39:13 anyone a monster @ photoshop? Oct 21 09:47:30 ok this is kinda funny Oct 21 09:47:53 search google images for t-mobile g1 and the first image is an iphone Oct 21 09:47:54 :| Oct 21 09:48:42 it's not Oct 21 09:49:23 LOL Oct 21 09:49:38 its a G1 in disguise Oct 21 09:49:52 sneaking in like a trojan horse to take over apple! Oct 21 09:50:15 im getting 'Not granting permission' for MOUNT_UNMOUNT_FILESYSTEMS. are developers not allowed to do that ? Oct 21 09:54:19 * DarkriftX goes to bed Oct 21 09:54:22 goodnight everyone Oct 21 09:54:27 have fun with your new toys Oct 21 09:56:17 o/ Oct 21 10:03:53 I wonder if any of the motorola devs are around Oct 21 10:11:15 sup vicki Oct 21 10:33:48 yay /me wakes up Oct 21 10:35:40 hmmmm hierarchyviewer is pretty handy for the ui Oct 21 10:37:05 fghdhdfhdfghdfghdfh Oct 21 10:37:24 ugh. my g1 is being shuffled around all the local ups offices. except not to the tiny one locally unfortunately. (there's a tiny ups depot 10-15 mins away. but our packages always come from 45 mins out. or .. fedex, which has a big facility 5 mins out thats open later :) ..) Oct 21 10:38:10 * gambler codes Oct 21 12:12:18 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?&Item=N82E16820134445&CMP=AFC-C8Junction Oct 21 12:12:23 anyone need a cheap sd card? Oct 21 12:39:36 thats hardly cheap for a 2g sd card Oct 21 12:39:53 4 bucks? Oct 21 12:39:57 with free shipping? Oct 21 12:40:06 didn't woot just do a pair of 2g microsd for $5/pair plus $5 shipping (for up to 3 pairs) .. Oct 21 12:40:27 yeah, but that deal isn't up anymore. Oct 21 12:40:48 i actually just got a paid of 2 gig microsd cards from buy.com for 11 bucks total with free shipping too Oct 21 12:40:51 and an adapter. Oct 21 12:40:56 pair* Oct 21 12:41:19 but 2 2gig sd cards here is 8 bucks with free shipping Oct 21 12:41:34 thats cheaper than either of the two microsd card deals we are talking about Oct 21 12:43:24 depends on how many 2g cards you need, esp since tey don't fit the g1 :) Oct 21 12:43:36 * Disconnect has a 4g microsd thats moving out of the e90 as soon as the g1 gets here Oct 21 12:44:50 true Oct 21 12:44:54 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134665 btw :) Oct 21 12:44:54 but they work in cameras and such Oct 21 12:45:08 there ya go. Oct 21 12:45:11 thats pretty cheap Oct 21 12:45:22 30 cents more and it fits both devices :) Oct 21 12:45:25 but not free shipping Oct 21 12:45:39 shipping kills that one, at 7 bucks Oct 21 12:46:19 yah didn't see the shipping Oct 21 12:46:21 but that woot deal was pretty good the other day Oct 21 12:46:34 either way, who wants anything smaller than 4g these days? :) Oct 21 12:46:43 for cameras its usefull Oct 21 12:47:30 mornin Oct 21 12:48:26 good morning michaelnovakjr_ Oct 21 12:48:31 here to sell your iphone again? Oct 21 12:48:32 heh Oct 21 12:48:35 :) Oct 21 12:49:00 i'm still doing android stuff, just not interested in the devices Oct 21 12:49:23 you mean, the device. since there is only one right now. Oct 21 12:49:28 true Oct 21 12:49:34 maybe some later one will make you want it more. Oct 21 12:49:50 heh, how soon to be Russia :) Oct 21 12:50:00 what? Oct 21 12:50:54 that was random Oct 21 12:56:52 And do not know when he will appear in Russia? Oct 21 12:57:35 what are you talking about? Oct 21 12:57:36 who is he? Oct 21 12:57:48 Gphone Oct 21 12:58:11 oh, i don't know. Oct 21 12:58:12 uh... Oct 21 12:58:14 i don't know if anyone knows. Oct 21 12:58:25 i haven't seen release dates for anywhere outside of eurpoe Oct 21 12:58:30 europe or us. Oct 21 13:04:14 russia is europe Oct 21 13:04:19 ... Oct 21 13:04:21 your dumb Oct 21 13:04:41 Russia is for a part in Europe Oct 21 13:04:58 Russia is in asia Oct 21 13:05:10 for the most part. Moskou is still in Europe Oct 21 13:05:14 in soviet russia, gfone buys YOU Oct 21 13:05:33 either way, i haven't seen any release dates for russia. Oct 21 13:05:44 only countries in europe and the US Oct 21 13:05:48 blount: in soviet russia the gphone falls appart when you look at it Oct 21 13:05:55 heh Oct 21 13:07:45 in post-soviet russia the gphone is just a weight and a red led that blinks "out of power" Oct 21 13:08:54 Oct 21 13:08:55 and he has appeared on ebay? Oct 21 13:09:12 why are you calling it he? Oct 21 13:09:15 i don't know, but you can check. Oct 21 13:09:39 michaelnovakjr_: is a male phone, didn't you see its adams apple? Oct 21 13:09:41 Yes, we have polar bears running around on the red square and have a black briefcase with a red button))) Oct 21 13:09:51 what? Oct 21 13:11:30 its only got one nub, that doesn't sound very male Oct 21 13:12:01 the nub is its adams apple. Oct 21 13:12:06 but it is on its chin... Oct 21 13:12:09 thats a tad high. Oct 21 13:12:34 Oct 21 13:12:35 and the correct interpretation is not Soviet Russia, but Russia. Soviet long it is not. :) Oct 21 13:13:08 nub is kinda on the bottom of the phone, unless you are holding it upside-down. (that could explain the audio quality problems ;) ..) Oct 21 13:13:19 lol Oct 21 13:14:26 Disconnect: In post-soviet russia the gphone is actually a p-phone, which has a constant connection to Putin. Oct 21 13:15:11 :) Oct 21 13:15:20 m-phone, medvedev) Oct 21 13:16:08 We now have: Medvedev. Putin did not hurt) Oct 21 13:21:14 (sounds like fun Oct 21 13:21:22 hi Dougie187 Oct 21 13:21:27 hey yakischloba Oct 21 13:21:29 hows it going? Oct 21 13:21:34 pretty good Oct 21 13:21:44 nice. Oct 21 13:21:44 getting excited for tomorrow..i hope i can get one before they sell out Oct 21 13:21:46 you get a phone yet? Oct 21 13:21:47 heh Oct 21 13:21:52 tomorrows the day huh? Oct 21 13:21:56 you are jasta gonna go together? Oct 21 13:22:10 nah, he already has his plan scoped out heh Oct 21 13:22:20 i wont be able to go til afternoon :( Oct 21 13:22:40 I would be like 3-4 hours late for work if I went to get it in the morning Oct 21 13:23:49 lol Oct 21 13:23:51 thats too bad Oct 21 13:23:55 yeah Oct 21 13:23:57 just say "OMG I TOTALLY OVER SLEPT!" Oct 21 13:24:02 kind of takes some of the excitement out of it heh Oct 21 13:24:06 (and woke up with a G1) Oct 21 13:24:08 the american banking system is the most shittiest i've ever seen Oct 21 13:24:11 i don't think they will be selling out though you should be good Oct 21 13:24:18 yeah unfortunately I can't do that, since I'm the only person here this early in the mornings Oct 21 13:24:27 thats too bad as well. Oct 21 13:24:42 it would mean the poor night guy would have to wait 4 extra hours ;) Oct 21 13:24:51 lol Oct 21 13:24:56 you could bribe him Oct 21 13:25:01 well jasta said of all the stores he called, the one with the most phones was getting 90. that doesn't seem like a whole lot Oct 21 13:25:01 with free breakfast/dinner Oct 21 13:25:25 but thats assuming 90 people know that the phone is coming out tomorrow and are going to rush to get it. Oct 21 13:25:30 (at the store alone) Oct 21 13:25:34 ouch only 90? :/ Oct 21 13:25:46 he called smaller stores closer to him though Oct 21 13:25:53 i guess im gonna try the downtown store Oct 21 13:26:01 i assume they'll be getting the most phones, but also the busiest, so it's a gamble Oct 21 13:26:07 ill call them later today Oct 21 13:27:30 i think you should be able to get one tomorrow Oct 21 13:27:39 yeah Oct 21 13:27:50 i don't really feel like google and tmobile have pushed it as much as apple and att pushed the iphone Oct 21 13:27:57 yeah totally Oct 21 13:28:06 have ther been /any/ tv spots? Oct 21 13:28:07 so i don't think its going to be insane at the stores tomorrow Oct 21 13:28:13 the majority of people who know about it are devs Oct 21 13:28:18 and there aren't even a ton of them Oct 21 13:28:25 umdk1d3: im not sure, but i haven't seen any. Oct 21 13:28:26 I don't pay any attention to media really, don't watch TV or read many magazines, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned anywhere outside of slashdot or engadget Oct 21 13:28:51 no big advertisements on the side of buses or anything Oct 21 13:28:52 i saw one about the motorola phone on businessweek yesterday Oct 21 13:28:54 but that was it Oct 21 13:29:03 it was just an article saying it wasn't going to be out until next year Oct 21 13:30:30 i don't think this will be as big as everyone thinks Oct 21 13:30:35 it hasn't been pushed Oct 21 13:30:46 thats what i think as well Oct 21 13:30:53 yeah. most people (even a lot of geeks) that I talk to, don't even know what android is Oct 21 13:30:55 i haven't seen any crazy ads about it or anything Oct 21 13:30:59 exactally Oct 21 13:31:00 there's virtually no ad campaign whatsoever Oct 21 13:31:09 thats why its going to be a slow growth Oct 21 13:31:14 oh yea Oct 21 13:31:14 and god knows why not Oct 21 13:31:15 but its better that way anyways Oct 21 13:31:26 yea its still immature Oct 21 13:31:27 because if you put up a bunch of ads, people _will_ buy it Oct 21 13:31:31 yakischloba: probably beacuse its not 100% up to par with everything else Oct 21 13:31:39 if a bunch of people buy it, then there are more negatives. Oct 21 13:31:51 you will get a lot worse press on the phone if it sells out now. Oct 21 13:31:59 heh. that takes us back to square one (phone was rushed) Oct 21 13:32:09 :) Oct 21 13:32:20 this way, devs can buy up the phones, make a ton of cool apps, and google can polish all the loose ends of the os before the public goes nuts for it Oct 21 13:32:41 whatever. I'll stick with it. It's better than my moto q ;) Oct 21 13:32:55 that way they don't get a bunch of tech idiots getting their hands on the phone and just complaining about everything its missing Oct 21 13:33:00 maybe I'll even finish my app once I get re-excited by the handset Oct 21 13:33:07 Dougie187: you don't think that will happen? Oct 21 13:33:17 it already has happened lol Oct 21 13:33:26 michaelnovakjr_: to some extent, but i think it will happen less then it would if they pushed ads hardcore. Oct 21 13:33:42 very true Oct 21 13:33:52 i mean the press for it so far hasn't been great. but if they had a huge ad campaign and were trying to make the phone fly off the shelves it would happen a lot more. Oct 21 13:34:25 yea Oct 21 13:34:38 also this way, they don't get like 5 million things they have to fix at once. they will roll in slowly because the people who buy them right now have similar needs. Oct 21 13:35:12 one other issue with that though, is i think it will make the app store grow slowly as well. Oct 21 13:36:19 jasta, ping Oct 21 13:36:37 i wouldn't think he is awake yet. Oct 21 13:36:38 lol Oct 21 13:36:39 jasta is not usually up this early ;) Oct 21 13:36:47 wait about an hour or so. Oct 21 13:36:49 is he on the west coast? Oct 21 13:36:50 i sure wouldn't be if I had more choice in the matter. Oct 21 13:36:51 yes Oct 21 13:36:55 oh Oct 21 13:36:56 thanks Oct 21 13:37:06 its when i usually wake up Oct 21 13:37:09 6:30. Oct 21 13:37:22 hmm. i usually wake up around 8 if left to my own devices Oct 21 13:37:34 i usually wake up around 7:30-8 without a clock Oct 21 13:37:44 i'm up at 7 every morning Oct 21 13:37:44 but during the week i wake up at 6:30 Oct 21 13:37:45 though I like being up in the early morning so I usually set an alarm for around 6-7 on the weekends Oct 21 13:38:06 not to mention I need to maintain my early sleep schedule Oct 21 13:38:10 yeha Oct 21 13:38:19 sucks...can't go out much even on the weekend Oct 21 13:38:23 its a pain when on the weekends you stay up til midnight and wake up at 10 am Oct 21 13:38:24 lol Oct 21 13:38:33 Friday night: sorry guys, 8pm, gotta go home.. Oct 21 13:38:37 then it takes you a week to get back into your schedule. Oct 21 13:38:41 heh Oct 21 13:38:42 yup Oct 21 13:38:51 and then your out late again, so you never feel rested. Oct 21 13:39:00 keeps me out of trouble anyway Oct 21 13:39:05 yeah Oct 21 13:39:18 barely have time to spend my money too, so that has been accumulating ;) Oct 21 13:39:25 heh Oct 21 13:39:27 thats always nice Oct 21 13:40:57 what is this tmobile plan going to cost anyway, i havent looked Oct 21 13:41:05 60? Oct 21 13:41:09 maybe 80 Oct 21 13:41:17 something in that range from what i heard Oct 21 13:41:18 hmm. I need to check and see how many minutes I use. Oct 21 13:41:41 i can't wait to hear if its easy to get android on a touch diamond. Oct 21 13:41:43 or a touch pro Oct 21 13:41:54 i guess a touch diamond won't work Oct 21 13:41:56 since theres not osk Oct 21 13:41:58 no* Oct 21 13:42:06 I'm sure people will be hacking it up quite soon. Oct 21 13:42:11 true Oct 21 13:42:31 i just love my sprint plan, so i don't want to have to change that Oct 21 13:43:03 it must be good for as much as I've heard you talk about it Oct 21 13:43:08 lol Oct 21 13:43:10 well its super cheap Oct 21 13:43:18 thats the best part. Oct 21 13:43:26 nice. Oct 21 13:43:28 yeah Oct 21 13:43:40 30 bucks a month for 500 minutes + unlimited text and data Oct 21 13:43:48 and picture mail Oct 21 13:43:51 doesn't get much better than that Oct 21 13:43:56 free nights and weekends at 7pm Oct 21 13:44:00 and free mobile to mobile Oct 21 13:44:11 nice Oct 21 13:44:13 yeah Oct 21 13:51:21 Dougie187, do you have some kind of discount? Oct 21 13:51:40 if not, then what is your plan called? Oct 21 14:05:26 * waldo_ is back (gone 05:35:31) Oct 21 14:05:32 tethridge: no its called the sero plan. but it doesn't exist as i described for new customers anymore Oct 21 14:05:54 its now called something like the Sprint Referral Everything Plus plan Oct 21 14:06:10 can you share that plan? Oct 21 14:06:13 its basically like I described but it costs 60 bucks now. Oct 21 14:06:20 ah Oct 21 14:06:21 with more lines? Oct 21 14:06:34 well, I have the same thing, but I share a line with my wife Oct 21 14:06:48 http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/expired-deals/680568 Oct 21 14:06:48 I get a 25% discount and it's about $70 a month Oct 21 14:06:51 nice Oct 21 14:06:59 but she doesn't get the data plan Oct 21 14:07:07 you can't share lines with this, so my wife and I each have our own lines and its $60 a month Oct 21 14:07:18 nice Oct 21 14:07:20 yeah Oct 21 14:07:46 it's $70 after the 25% discount, so you got a really good deal Oct 21 14:08:01 my plan is almost two years old though, so the rates are probably cheaper now Oct 21 14:08:13 possibly Oct 21 14:08:26 did you see they ranked 1st in customer service response times in a recent survey? Oct 21 14:08:33 they were dead last 2 years ago Oct 21 14:08:34 yea i was $25 more than new customers at sprint Oct 21 14:08:46 with the same plan Oct 21 14:08:52 yeah, I saw that Oct 21 14:08:55 its nice that they tell you this Oct 21 14:09:04 if they could just get me a nice android phone, I'd stay with them Oct 21 14:09:15 otherwise, I'm jumping ship come Feb Oct 21 14:09:16 yeah, soon enough they will Oct 21 14:10:01 supposedly before the end of the year sprint is going to have an android phone as well Oct 21 14:10:10 is it a simple matter to find the users location (country) ? Oct 21 14:11:46 still going on about the country huh? Oct 21 14:12:35 im not sure if there is an easy way, but couldn't you just check the area code of the phone number? Oct 21 14:12:59 michaelnovakjr_: yeah :D I've admitted defeat about finding their registered country, so im having to ask the user for it, i now want to check to see if the user is in a different country Oct 21 14:13:39 Dougie187: was thinking more along the lines of the phones current location, i.e when travelling Oct 21 14:13:49 oh ok Oct 21 14:14:55 VickiWong: gps Oct 21 14:15:26 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 21 14:15:51 michaelnovakjr_: yeah thats right by gps, is it relatively easy to fetch current location (country) ? Oct 21 14:16:44 you should be able to determine by coordinates Oct 21 14:27:04 eclipse->DDMS->logcat just gives me minimal output but debug is set Oct 21 14:28:22 logcat acts funny in eclipse for me all the time Oct 21 14:28:42 sometimes restarting eclipse helps me Oct 21 14:31:16 oinkboink: you should set verbose Oct 21 14:31:39 the same... Oct 21 14:31:45 i try to restart... Oct 21 14:33:41 I always use logcat on cli Oct 21 14:34:24 * Disconnect might be old-fashioned but i miss xgdb. simple, clicky-edit backtraces, etc. no need to cut/paste them just to get a clickable link.. Oct 21 14:34:38 does anyone know where an app exists that'll let me jump into a shell from within android? Oct 21 14:34:51 http://androidcommunity.com/android-source-code-released-google-keep-open-source-promise-20081021/ Oct 21 14:35:26 cool Oct 21 14:36:07 course, "sign in with a different account" doesn't actually -work- but.. Oct 21 14:36:44 Sorry, foobeefoobefoo@gmail.com does not have permission to view this page. Please verify you are using the correct account, or contact the site owners. Oct 21 14:36:53 wtf is a android account? Oct 21 14:36:57 so unless you have an android.com account... Oct 21 14:37:01 no idea and there's no signup link Oct 21 14:37:48 fuckers Oct 21 14:37:49 so i still need an activation email resend for androidcommunity - anyone know who can do that? getting tired of using the admin email address and not getting a response :( Oct 21 14:38:12 michaelnovakjr_: meh. it prolly just means someone jumped the gun on the press release Oct 21 14:38:23 :) Oct 21 14:38:27 probably Oct 21 14:38:32 its pretty early in cali still Oct 21 14:41:13 probably PR was told "release this in the morning" and the techies either weren't told at all or were thinking "10am" not "7:30am" :) Oct 21 14:41:15 we'll probably need an android account for the market Oct 21 14:49:07 Just downloaded the SDK, exported the PATH, as explained in the installation document. I don't see further instructions on running android. Where are they? Oct 21 14:49:26 Sigh. Does anyone else have their G1 yet? If so, has anyone else been able to use ADB via USB? Oct 21 14:49:39 vol : make sure you enable usb debugging in the settings Oct 21 14:49:40 I've been installing my apps by putting them on my website and downloading them : ( Oct 21 14:49:44 I have Oct 21 14:50:01 vol : do you see your device when you run adb devices? Oct 21 14:50:03 vol: I know some people have to run adb as root when starting adb Oct 21 14:50:19 zhobbs: true, i have to do that Oct 21 14:50:20 no, I don't see my device Oct 21 14:50:31 hmm. Oct 21 14:50:34 vol: what platform are you on? Oct 21 14:50:36 I'm trying adb on my windows machine right now. Oct 21 14:50:37 I don't Oct 21 14:50:41 I tried it on linux last night Oct 21 14:50:42 but wasn't root Oct 21 14:50:47 it did automount the device Oct 21 14:50:49 as a filesystem Oct 21 14:50:49 vol: windows requires a driver Oct 21 14:50:53 where is the driver Oct 21 14:50:56 I'm on ubuntu 8.10 now and it works as non root Oct 21 14:50:59 don't know Oct 21 14:51:08 blargh. Oct 21 14:51:13 Well, tried on ubuntu 8.10 last night Oct 21 14:51:16 vol: should be available with the source (read it somewhere) Oct 21 14:51:25 adb devices didn't show anything Oct 21 14:51:49 vol: Ow sorry vol, maybe adb needs to be root when connecting to real device Oct 21 14:52:01 ADB does not require root if you configure the system to create the /dev entry with the correct permissions. Oct 21 14:52:12 vol: did you unclick "use for USB storage" on the sd card settings on device? Oct 21 14:52:13 * fadden0 looks for the doc... Oct 21 14:52:28 I did today, but not yesterday, which may have been it. Oct 21 14:52:51 when i place a file in the folder following message appears: [2008-10-21 16:51:48 - Android] res\raw\Dylan: Invalid file name: must contain only [a-z0-9_.] Oct 21 14:53:12 Is the SDK what I need to download if I want to try out the Android OS (in a virtual machine on my Macbook Pro)? Oct 21 14:53:21 yes Oct 21 14:53:24 but its just called "Dylan"! Oct 21 14:53:29 the sdk contains the emulator Oct 21 14:53:34 a-z Oct 21 14:53:37 lowercase it dude Oct 21 14:53:46 oh ;) Oct 21 14:53:58 Using adb on windows requires installing a driver. Oct 21 14:54:13 which I think will be released soon... Oct 21 14:54:29 oh jeez the driver isn't even out yet? Oct 21 14:54:33 motherfuck. Oct 21 14:54:50 alright, I'll try it again on my linux machine when I get home, hopefully it was just because I had use for usb storage ticked Oct 21 14:55:11 On Linux, you can run adb as non-root if you set up a file in /etc/udev/rules.d/ to set up the permissions. Oct 21 14:55:22 hmm Oct 21 14:55:23 There should be some docs available on that soon. Oct 21 14:55:34 vol: were you responding to my question with "yes"? Oct 21 14:55:48 yes Oct 21 14:55:49 vol: ok, I see. How does one run the emulator? Oct 21 14:56:02 unzip the sdk, set your paths to point to the android/bin directory Oct 21 14:56:18 if you have eclipse, and you use the plugin, things work mostly automagically Oct 21 14:56:29 vol: I have a tools directory, but not a bin directory. Oct 21 14:56:44 er Oct 21 14:56:45 that might be it Oct 21 14:56:52 yea Oct 21 14:56:54 its tools Oct 21 14:56:57 bah has anyone had luck with mashing together alpha+translation animations in xml? Oct 21 14:56:57 yes :< Oct 21 14:56:59 vol: how can I run the emulator without eclipse? Oct 21 14:57:00 it's tools Oct 21 14:57:07 run the emulator binary in tools Oct 21 14:57:10 just from the command line Oct 21 14:57:16 sgeigerbot: emulator Oct 21 14:57:18 vol: what's the name? Oct 21 14:57:20 it will pop open the emulator, which takes a couple of minutes to boot up Oct 21 14:57:21 assuming its in your path Oct 21 14:57:21 ok Oct 21 14:57:22 "emulator" Oct 21 14:57:43 so either set your path to include android/tools, or just run android/tools/emulator Oct 21 14:57:50 (android being the actual path) Oct 21 14:57:53 vol: neat-o! Oct 21 14:58:34 is there any way to change the locale? i'd like to test some i18n stuff.. Oct 21 14:59:14 there is even a not-bad g1 skin for it floating around the interwebs Oct 21 14:59:34 actually, here's another question Oct 21 14:59:41 is there a way to change the orientation of the emulator while it's running? Oct 21 14:59:50 or do you pretty much have to start another emulator to do it Oct 21 15:00:23 vol : on my system is fn + numkey 7 or numkey 9 Oct 21 15:00:54 vol: err, actually just try the numpad.. i think the fn thing is for my laptop since it doesn't have a real numpad Oct 21 15:03:01 Source code release. is it really available or just a fake news on some blogs ? Oct 21 15:04:36 How can I get to a command line interface within Android's emulator? Oct 21 15:05:45 sgeigerbot: you can run "adb shell" Oct 21 15:05:58 http://androidcommunity.com/android-source-code-released-google-keep-open-source-promise-20081021/ Oct 21 15:06:08 anno^da_: already was posted Oct 21 15:06:15 zhobbs: How can the emulator itself yield a terminal? Oct 21 15:06:16 Try it again. Oct 21 15:06:17 sgeigerbot: run adb shell in a new terminal window Oct 21 15:06:41 i don't believe there's a released terminal.apk yet for the emulator itself Oct 21 15:07:16 michaelnovakjr_: I'm surprised. Where are all the ssh geeks? Oct 21 15:07:28 there is one, but it hasn't been released Oct 21 15:07:33 mostly not needed yet Oct 21 15:07:36 spearce: there's an ssh client Oct 21 15:07:42 since you can run it right from the terminal Oct 21 15:07:44 but on the emulator just use adb shell Oct 21 15:07:54 The source code is released Oct 21 15:07:58 dude we know Oct 21 15:08:02 its been posted :) Oct 21 15:08:10 haha Oct 21 15:08:21 I'm just using the emulator to get the feel for what i would have if I had a phone. I am also wondering whether I can run python on the emulator. Oct 21 15:08:35 not sure if its been done yet Oct 21 15:08:43 its not a fully featured shell Oct 21 15:08:54 psst Oct 21 15:09:00 ? Oct 21 15:09:18 when should I unbind a service? Oct 21 15:09:26 when you're done with it Oct 21 15:09:53 Hmm Oct 21 15:09:53 wait, there's an ssh client already? Oct 21 15:09:55 where the hell is it : ( Oct 21 15:10:01 http://source.android.com Oct 21 15:10:02 Lessee... Oct 21 15:10:03 search for it Oct 21 15:10:04 I want to place it on my phone and gently caress it Oct 21 15:10:14 All y'all prolly want to look at that: ^^ Oct 21 15:10:18 =) Oct 21 15:10:34 YAY SRC =D Oct 21 15:10:40 behold teh surce Oct 21 15:10:57 My name is Ozymandias, king of androids: look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair! Oct 21 15:10:59 woot..shopsavvy hits 1k downloads Oct 21 15:11:05 Anyone here named Luke? Oct 21 15:11:14 Skywalker? Oct 21 15:11:20 Right. =) Oct 21 15:11:20 yea, that's me Oct 21 15:11:23 "use the source, Luke" ? Oct 21 15:11:31 michaelnovakjr_: USE THE SOURCE, LUKE! Oct 21 15:11:33 There we go. Oct 21 15:11:37 I'm out of bad jokes for the morning. Oct 21 15:11:42 Oh good. :-) Oct 21 15:11:45 me too Oct 21 15:11:45 yawn Oct 21 15:11:53 morning jeff Oct 21 15:11:59 Heya Danny! Oct 21 15:12:03 How's the bunny? Oct 21 15:12:05 Did someone mention the terminal app? http://android.kernel.org/?p=platform/development.git;a=tree;f=apps/Term;h=4257b516cc7f115c1e31b2d18add510744c92bad;hb=HEAD Oct 21 15:12:14 yes Oct 21 15:12:55 shit is fancy guys Oct 21 15:12:58 review server... Oct 21 15:13:21 open source ftw Oct 21 15:13:38 cool they fixed it Oct 21 15:13:40 michaelnovakjr_: I may have to quote that as the first Open Source review. =) Oct 21 15:14:15 its a nice way of handling it Oct 21 15:15:01 mikez5: I want to touch my dong on this. Oct 21 15:15:07 dude Oct 21 15:15:17 Here's something the iPhone has trouble with (from what I can tell): It can't download a PDF (of the subway map in NY) and then read the PDF from the filesystem directly when you are offline. The iPhone tries to get a new copy of the PDF every time. I'd like to be able to use the subway map even when I'm offline (in the subway). Oct 21 15:15:33 download the app that has it :) Oct 21 15:15:51 michaelnovakjr_: are you talking to me? Oct 21 15:15:56 indeed Oct 21 15:16:01 there's an app for it Oct 21 15:16:19 michaelnovakjr_: Is there no way to save files on a filesystem and them open them with a generic pdf reader? Oct 21 15:16:38 (using the UI of android) Oct 21 15:16:55 you can save stuff to the sd card Oct 21 15:17:02 yes Oct 21 15:17:05 you can save to it Oct 21 15:17:15 i have a file browser i whipped up that does that Oct 21 15:17:21 it was for the old sdk though Oct 21 15:17:34 and it was for the vogue Oct 21 15:17:41 http://android-random.googlecode.com Oct 21 15:17:51 source is available if you want to check it out Oct 21 15:17:56 most should still be relevant Oct 21 15:21:19 thanks for the tour, guys Oct 21 15:23:46 boo, ssh client doesn't work : ( Oct 21 15:24:33 vol: which one? Oct 21 15:25:08 connectbot Oct 21 15:25:12 hi, anyone knows if it's possible to connect the emulator to a GPS antenna? Oct 21 15:25:30 omegatest: probably. You can also create your own gps tracks and use those. Oct 21 15:26:02 yes, I know it Oct 21 15:26:22 vol: are you using SVN build? Oct 21 15:26:43 no, just the apk posted Oct 21 15:27:07 but I would like to test an app in a "realistic context", and using an antenna would be nice Oct 21 15:27:24 vol: yea thats buggy and old Oct 21 15:27:27 build from the latest svn Oct 21 15:29:01 umdk1d3: alright, when I get home I'll try Oct 21 15:29:05 umdk1d3: do you know if they put a ctrl key function into a menu for connectbot? Oct 21 15:29:57 jasonchen: nice! Oct 21 15:30:35 kslater: not yet Oct 21 15:31:00 the other terminal app uses the trackball-down + key as ctrl +key Oct 21 15:31:02 great news Oct 21 15:31:06 well done droids Oct 21 15:31:26 umdk1d3: are you involved with the project? Oct 21 15:31:30 now we can unveil all the magic Oct 21 15:32:03 now you know the secret Oct 21 15:32:05 there is no god Oct 21 15:33:20 yay Oct 21 15:36:35 YAY apk ready ^.^ Oct 21 15:36:38 now muthu is going to write a dumb sappy annoying post about the source Oct 21 15:36:38 Cannot import platform/external/iptables: checksum mismatch: 7226fd9f7f7ebada706f9d040b39245ee8123faa Oct 21 15:36:39 * umdk1d3 sends to eric+jason Oct 21 15:36:40 Pay no attention to the source code behind the curtain... damn. Oct 21 15:36:50 bricode: Heya, we're just fixing that. Oct 21 15:37:07 jbailey: Excellent. Oct 21 15:37:24 bricode: hi brian, how are you? Oct 21 15:37:26 jbailey: Could you let me know when it's a go? Oct 21 15:37:35 lh: Doing well. Looks like the whole gang is here :) Oct 21 15:37:42 bricode: indeed. Oct 21 15:37:44 the "/project" page has a broken link "Project layout" goes to /projects-deprecated Oct 21 15:39:56 greetings. Oct 21 15:40:31 taaz: Thanks. Oct 21 15:40:42 taaz: Is that on source.android.com? Oct 21 15:41:15 yeah Oct 21 15:43:33 taaz: Thanks, fixed. Oct 21 15:43:53 so I was just informed the source was released today \o/ Oct 21 15:44:16 ^^ topic ^^ Oct 21 15:45:30 * taaz will now claim to be an android contributor :) Oct 21 15:45:39 hardly Oct 21 15:45:50 michaelnovakjr_: I haven't been paying attention to the internetz Oct 21 15:46:05 i pointed to the topic because its the link to it Oct 21 15:47:46 * jasta faints Oct 21 15:49:19 michaelnovakjr_: someone in another channel pointed me, but thanks :) Oct 21 15:49:24 bricode: do you have a moment? Oct 21 15:49:36 haylo Oct 21 15:49:48 lh: For you? Of course. Oct 21 15:50:21 bricode: actually, it's for docpaul. remember the open source doctors saving the world? that's him. i think you two should talk. may i suggest /msg? Oct 21 15:50:39 damnit, requires a git version newer than is in debian stable Oct 21 15:50:56 Never happy are you, Jasta? Oct 21 15:51:14 well i'm just gonna check it out at work now, i'm on ubuntu there Oct 21 15:52:49 heya Oct 21 15:52:52 did they fix the permission problem? Oct 21 15:53:03 has there been a port for the nokia e71 to android? Oct 21 15:53:27 Assid: I think people aren't quite that quick. =) Oct 21 15:53:37 hrmm Oct 21 15:53:47 was hoping it was already there :| Oct 21 15:53:56 nokia's latest move kinda annoys me Oct 21 15:54:03 Assid: Well, it was only open sourced 53 minutes ago. =) Oct 21 15:54:10 really? Oct 21 15:54:11 !! Oct 21 15:54:14 jasta, I downloaded the source for five last night, but when I imported the client, I got errors because it expected the package to be src.org... instead of org... Oct 21 15:54:19 i thought it was always open sourced Oct 21 15:54:27 congrats to the android team on the release! Oct 21 15:54:30 tethridge: you built it incorrectly with Eclipse, methinks Oct 21 15:54:51 jasta, I didn't build it. I just imported the project Oct 21 15:54:54 have you tried that? Oct 21 15:55:23 well, of course, it builds automatically, but my point is that the import doesn't set the source path correctly Oct 21 15:55:23 i don't have Eclipse project files in subversion because i dont build it that way Oct 21 15:55:37 right Oct 21 15:55:44 I'm referring to the android project files Oct 21 15:55:46 but if you want to, you'll need to construct the project properly to use the src/ build dir and such Oct 21 15:56:05 hang on, i'm like super late for work :) Oct 21 15:56:15 ok Oct 21 16:00:01 tethridge: ill just commit eclipse project files here pretty soon Oct 21 16:00:04 no reason not to have them i guess Oct 21 16:00:17 jasta, are you at work already? Oct 21 16:00:32 no, rushing to get there Oct 21 16:01:57 jasta, you should try importing the source. The android plugin recognizes the android project files and suggests that you import the source. That is what I did, but it didn't set the source up correctly. Oct 21 16:02:40 i know why it wouldnt, as i said, i dont use eclipse to build :) Oct 21 16:03:21 when im booting up android-emulator out of eclipse the following messages appear in logcat http://nopaste.org/p/aOZZk1Izbb Oct 21 16:04:18 that looks normal, since those are device-specific things it's looking for, not present on the emulator Oct 21 16:04:38 anyone know anything about doing sim unlocking? does the source help us at all? Oct 21 16:04:48 mh ok, because the emulator acting strange Oct 21 16:05:07 jasta: what do you use? Oct 21 16:05:07 sometimes a programm runs sometimes not... Oct 21 16:05:26 * waldo_ is back (gone 01:50:00) Oct 21 16:07:25 well, you guys made me very excited :) Congrats android team! Oct 21 16:08:15 because i get http://nopaste.org/p/atmbsNgDI Oct 21 16:09:09 the programm does not run, i have to click it my self... Oct 21 16:15:26 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 21 16:20:11 lh: Thanks for that connection. Oct 21 16:22:05 yay ive got snow everywhere ^.^ Oct 21 16:22:42 bricode: any time, you take good care of them. Oct 21 16:23:00 lh: Will do. Awesome project. Oct 21 16:23:13 bricode: i thought so too. i keep a close eye on them. Oct 21 16:23:43 * umdk1d3 watches server logs crawl by at frantic pace Oct 21 16:24:55 now anyone dare ask this is official android channel ;) Oct 21 16:25:00 umdk1d3: Snow? Oct 21 16:25:11 jbailey: yep =D got a few inches overnight in town Oct 21 16:25:16 umdk1d3: Neat. Where? Oct 21 16:25:23 montanta ^.^ Oct 21 16:25:49 * jbailey wonders if it snowed back home in Montreal Oct 21 16:25:59 jbailey: eh? Oct 21 16:26:02 a new admin? Oct 21 16:26:56 jbailey is from our open source programs office Oct 21 16:26:59 good guy Oct 21 16:27:01 (tm) Oct 21 16:27:29 thats cool Oct 21 16:27:35 =) Oct 21 16:28:07 SanMehat: congrats on the launch dude Oct 21 16:28:11 umdk1d3: i just have greyness and cold :( Oct 21 16:28:14 jbailey: you too Oct 21 16:28:16 lh: dake :) Oct 21 16:28:16 spearce: you too Oct 21 16:28:18 er danke Oct 21 16:28:32 jasonchen: you too too Oct 21 16:28:37 SanMehat: break when you feel like it? Oct 21 16:28:46 lh: ok. Oct 21 16:29:16 unix_lappy: i typically build/deploy with Maven Oct 21 16:29:30 Congratulations on the launch to all Oct 21 16:29:37 Thanks a lot Oct 21 16:29:51 lets see how long until its on an arbitrary phone Oct 21 16:30:21 bbl Oct 21 16:30:58 thanks :) Oct 21 16:31:22 Is there any way to easily rip out the external repos to avoid repo sync isssues/ Oct 21 16:32:29 SanMehat: Hey! Oct 21 16:32:45 ttuttle: yo Oct 21 16:32:47 :) Oct 21 16:32:55 SanMehat: Congrats! Oct 21 16:33:02 yayyy ;) Oct 21 16:33:15 SanMehat: Are things quieting down a bit? Oct 21 16:33:40 jasta: hmm, interesting. Oct 21 16:33:46 bricode: Without the external repo and the patches, you won't be able to build. Oct 21 16:33:54 unix_lappy: i'm working on getting you an eclipse build environment.... Oct 21 16:33:58 in subversion Oct 21 16:34:01 ttuttle: are you crazy? its going even faster now :) Oct 21 16:34:08 bricode: The longer term idea is to get these patches upstream. But hey, we wanted to open source this decade ;) Oct 21 16:34:33 jasta: can't you just do file->new android project->from existing source in eclipse to load it? Oct 21 16:34:53 zhobbs: well, sure, but then you have to set up deps and the right build path Oct 21 16:35:06 which is clearly not what tethridge is looking for :) Oct 21 16:35:24 lol, probably more busy with their team trying to get more devices supported :-P Oct 21 16:35:35 jasta: hawt. thanks. Oct 21 16:35:41 SanMehat: Heh. Oct 21 16:35:55 yo Oct 21 16:36:22 romainguy_: You're missing all the fun Oct 21 16:36:40 jham__: where are you? Oct 21 16:37:04 hi, has anyone heard if htc touch will be the next that will ship with android? Oct 21 16:37:09 jham__: I just got in MTV Oct 21 16:37:20 also, what's the task on the carrier, will only t-mobile ship android? Oct 21 16:37:23 romainguy_: Upstairs Oct 21 16:37:29 * ttuttle repo sync. Oct 21 16:37:53 anyway, hope you guys are happy now Oct 21 16:38:13 How much bandwidth does repo sync use the first time? Oct 21 16:38:39 The tree is 2.1Gb Oct 21 16:38:48 holy crap @ 2.1gb tree Oct 21 16:38:49 You will need 6Gb to build Oct 21 16:39:05 how many industrial sinks did they throw in there!?! :P Oct 21 16:39:08 umdk1d3: when we said it was a big project, we weren't lying :)) Oct 21 16:39:10 how long does it take on a quad core with 4b of ram? Oct 21 16:39:26 mohbana: about 25 minutes for me Oct 21 16:39:29 on Mac OS X Oct 21 16:39:40 We have seen build times varying between 30mn and one hour across the team Oct 21 16:39:49 one hour being on MacBook Pro laptops Oct 21 16:39:59 Or, y'know, 6 hours the time I tried it on a shared xen instance on NFS. Oct 21 16:40:03 But that wasn't my brightest idea. =) Oct 21 16:40:05 the lowest numbers I've seen were around 12 minutes Oct 21 16:40:22 * umdk1d3 throws on 8-core xeon box Oct 21 16:40:41 umdk1d3: you don't gain much beyond 4 cores Oct 21 16:40:50 using ant for buildscripts? Oct 21 16:41:19 make Oct 21 16:41:28 -j is your best friend Oct 21 16:41:39 the open source tree, default/generic target takes 15.5 minutes cold on a quad core mac pro running ubuntu, make -j8 Oct 21 16:41:51 so stupid question, but is it possible to build a flashable g1 image? Oct 21 16:41:58 disconnect: almost! Oct 21 16:42:08 cool. thats a lot better than i was expecting. :) Oct 21 16:42:18 I'm working on some additional packages to fill in the blanks Oct 21 16:43:00 there are a handful of proprietary binary components from htc and qualcomm. worst case these could be adb pull'd from a production device and dropped into the build, but ideally htc would have a "download the bits you need to build for g1" thing online. Oct 21 16:43:10 swetland: and flashing is allowed? or is that up to the handset/carrier? Oct 21 16:43:25 congrats guys! Oct 21 16:43:49 stock tmo g1 does not have an engineering bootloader (fastboot tool won't work) and requires signed updates for the recovery update mechanism Oct 21 16:44:19 meaning that it won't flash? Oct 21 16:44:22 he had the mozilla guys come down to your uni yesterday, they presented their new mobile browser, what really appealed to me as the ability to have everything in syn with my browser at home. anyhow, i wanted to know if it will be possible to actually run it on android Oct 21 16:44:35 i presume you can't since developers only have access to the java layer Oct 21 16:44:37 we're investigating possibilities for making generic "developer" hardware available with engineering bootloaders, etc. no details available yet. Oct 21 16:44:57 swetland: that'd be cool Oct 21 16:44:57 hot damn Oct 21 16:45:01 never thought I'd see the day Oct 21 16:45:08 told you to be patient :p Oct 21 16:45:16 :) Oct 21 16:45:24 hmm what the hell is this Oct 21 16:45:32 error: Cannot import platform/external/libpcap: checksum mismatch: 29b0e71b7913664617f142fdbf22e3a5a0434f4b expected, 7d4227ea78579803a5562f03e4b63790292caac3 imported Oct 21 16:45:41 jasta: See the known-issues page, please. Oct 21 16:45:45 swetland: but generally, hacksumers won't be able to do a roll-your-own thing on a consumer device? Oct 21 16:45:51 oo, swetland and romainguy_ are here now Oct 21 16:46:00 lh: hmmm? Oct 21 16:46:02 jasta: http://source.android.com/known-issues Oct 21 16:46:11 hmm, ok. Oct 21 16:46:12 jasonchen: nothing, just didn't see them before. Oct 21 16:46:21 i'll just siwtch to python2.4 Oct 21 16:46:28 there wasnt this info last time i went ther e:) Oct 21 16:46:36 s: on a g1, right now, no. that may change in the future. other devices on other carriers may be different as well. I'm pushing for more open as much as possible. carriers are slow to change Oct 21 16:46:37 jasta: That should do the trick for now Oct 21 16:47:01 at least there's the emulator to test changes ^^ Oct 21 16:47:08 swetland: duly noted. :-D Oct 21 16:47:09 is anyone actually getting my questions? Oct 21 16:47:27 mohbana: Yes. Oct 21 16:47:48 SanMehat: I'm having trouble fetching platform/external/libpcap -- repo is giving me a checksum error. Halp? Oct 21 16:48:11 ttuttle: jham__: jasta: http://source.android.com/known-issues Oct 21 16:48:15 * romainguy_ slaps ttuttle Oct 21 16:48:17 pay attention :p Oct 21 16:48:26 haha Oct 21 16:48:30 hahaha Oct 21 16:48:41 rooooooofl only one known issue Oct 21 16:48:47 the sole Known Issue Oct 21 16:48:56 ohwait there are two ^.^ Oct 21 16:48:56 its early... :)0 Oct 21 16:49:05 that guy's dangly earing is distracting Oct 21 16:49:24 jasta: you around Oct 21 16:49:25 * ttuttle whimpers. Oct 21 16:49:52 ~130 as of last night to 170 now. Oct 21 16:51:33 romainguy_: Thank you. Oct 21 16:51:58 * jasta waits patiently as he sips coffee Oct 21 16:52:13 a jump of 40 in a day.. Oct 21 16:52:17 i saw the lsit of apps released open source... Oct 21 16:52:17 * davidw prepares to saturate the hotel wireless network Oct 21 16:52:20 that really made me happy :) Oct 21 16:52:21 quite a long list Oct 21 16:52:38 jasta: which one you like? Oct 21 16:53:06 jasta, where's the link to that list? Oct 21 16:53:25 jasta can now finally fix all of his grumbles ;) Oct 21 16:55:05 * umdk1d3 starving Oct 21 16:55:10 havent slept since sunday Oct 21 16:56:04 so one has an answer to my question(s)? Oct 21 16:56:26 hrm...tweaked the script to call 2.4, but no go Oct 21 16:57:08 mohbana: Please understand this about IRC: If someone has an answer, they will tell you. Oct 21 16:58:01 will the SDK ever be licensed under Apache? Oct 21 16:58:22 the entire source tree is apache Oct 21 16:58:28 download it and build the sdk Oct 21 16:58:36 (I simplify, some bits are bsd licensed, etc) Oct 21 16:58:53 the sdk is part of the 2 gig download? Oct 21 16:59:17 mib_zgbycs: "make sdk" Oct 21 16:59:22 why is there a sdk agreement then on code.google.com Oct 21 16:59:42 URL? Oct 21 16:59:56 http://code.google.com/android/download.html Oct 21 17:00:07 Android Software Development Kit License Agreement Oct 21 17:00:09 "repo sync" takes a long time Oct 21 17:00:18 zhobbs: there's 2.1 GB of data Oct 21 17:00:22 the sdk is a full distribution for a pre-built sdk Oct 21 17:00:23 oh, wow Oct 21 17:00:48 slightly different terms. though it's possible some of the sdk agreement language is a bit stale due to it being originally for the preview release of the sdk Oct 21 17:00:50 got it Oct 21 17:00:59 2.1 GB -- ouch. Oct 21 17:01:03 the source.android.com has the tell tell sign that it was made with google pages Oct 21 17:01:09 mib_zgbycs: I've passed the question to legal about getting rid of that. Oct 21 17:01:12 My wireless quota is 750 MB per day. Luckily it's averaged over five days. Oct 21 17:02:45 * davidw says: Go Apache:-) Oct 21 17:03:13 ttuttle: Isn't that what your neighbour's wireless is... mmm. NM Oct 21 17:03:36 jbailey: Yeah. Oct 21 17:03:39 jbailey: But I'm on campus. Oct 21 17:04:10 jbailey: I can finish it later off campus, where I have a 2GB/day wired quota, and my WRT54G bridges me to the Ethernet network. Oct 21 17:04:17 Is there anyway to get the Java portions, just the SDK? Don't really want to build all of Android just look around. Oct 21 17:04:48 dmoffett: the framework is made out of many different parts Oct 21 17:04:58 there are some of the apps, the framework, some of the tools, etc. Oct 21 17:04:59 romainguy_: This is so exciting. Oct 21 17:05:16 ttuttle: is your 'top' app in there somewhere? ;) Oct 21 17:05:19 it's a little anticlimactic waiting the hours and hours it'll take to download lal of this :) Oct 21 17:05:19 I see. Oct 21 17:05:21 you can always look at the Git repository browser Oct 21 17:05:30 yakischloba: Yeah, in system/bin/toolbox, if that exists. Oct 21 17:05:31 and look directly at what interests you Oct 21 17:05:38 ttuttle: time for you to shine :) Oct 21 17:05:41 yakischloba: ;-) Oct 21 17:06:01 Yeah I am getting the checksum error. Oct 21 17:06:21 ohh, n wonder this is going so slow Oct 21 17:06:27 it's going over our T1 not our Cable circuit :) Oct 21 17:07:00 so now that the source is released can i get my own hardware device and flash it with android firmware? Oct 21 17:07:45 * jasta adds port 9418 to the list going over the cable modem Oct 21 17:09:22 damn. knew i went to lunch too early. "can we build a flashable image" "sure if you have a nonstandard phone that is only available to g1 team" :/ Oct 21 17:10:18 * Disconnect isn't worried about proprietary radio/etc drivers - either they'll work with multiple kernels or g1 team will build a gpl/apache2 shim so we can start playing with new kernels. Oct 21 17:10:19 Disconnect: "sure if you have a nonstandard phone that is only available to the g1 team, currently. possibly in the future there will be a dev machine, but there's no plans now" Oct 21 17:10:27 yah Oct 21 17:10:28 DrmProvider. What's that used for? Oct 21 17:10:34 still, thats not a flashable g1 image is it? :) Oct 21 17:10:35 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:55:09) Oct 21 17:10:42 tethridge: DRM content Oct 21 17:10:52 its a flashable g1-dev image (and/or a flashable dev phone image) Oct 21 17:11:03 Disconnect: not officially. There are clever hackers out there, it's possible we'll see someone figure out a way to hack it Oct 21 17:11:03 I knew somebody would say DRM. I mean, what kind of content uses DRM? Oct 21 17:11:22 tethridge: ringtones, wallpapers, whatever carriers usually sell Oct 21 17:11:23 presumably wma/wmv, etc. Oct 21 17:11:29 and ftr i'm not saying google/etc will -have- to build the shim. just that if new kernels become popular enough it'll save time and support effort :) Oct 21 17:11:46 summatusmentis: fair enough. whats the tmob/htc/google policy on unbricking? Oct 21 17:12:04 I'm not sure how carriers are going to sell ring tones with the easy capability to just use your own music as ring tones Oct 21 17:12:20 * Disconnect isn't above telling a retail shop it "just quit working" :) Oct 21 17:12:28 Disconnect: not sure, just an avid fan :) Oct 21 17:12:34 tethridge: Who cares? Selling ringtones is stupid! Oct 21 17:12:39 I agree Oct 21 17:12:41 any reason why you guys chose git? Oct 21 17:12:44 tethridge: Why should I pay $1 for 30 seconds of a song I can get for $1? Oct 21 17:12:46 because of kernel? Oct 21 17:12:46 Once I download all of this using the prescribed method, can I just tar up the directory structure and copy it to another machine ok? Oct 21 17:13:29 mohbana: @ my 9-5 half the devs are switching to git, even though the main repo is svn Oct 21 17:13:53 it seems fairly popular/workable for large teams (or frequently-branching teams, which is what my guys are doing) Oct 21 17:14:08 *oh yeah* there we go, over cable getting 1MB/s ;) Oct 21 17:14:20 mohbana: what Disconnect said Oct 21 17:14:44 jasta: I'm downloading it to my machine here at work...then I plan on pulled it down at home, from here, since I have a 10mbit port ;) Oct 21 17:15:19 jasta: you are welcome to use it later if you want Oct 21 17:15:20 * Disconnect has a pretty fat home pipe (business fios) and can host a mirror (for about 45 seconds, until its saturated) if needed :P Oct 21 17:15:40 i haven't started the pull yet - is the production build tagged? Oct 21 17:16:21 and can someone please go tell my ups driver to get off his ass and arrive? i'm only 30 mins away and he's been 'out for delivery' for 5 hours now :( Oct 21 17:16:28 I must say that it made me smile when I saw that the only platform not supported at this time was Windows. :-) Oct 21 17:16:34 heh Oct 21 17:16:37 take that, chrome! Oct 21 17:16:38 yeah git is badass, very lightweight too Oct 21 17:16:39 i meant, why didn't you guys chose mercurial Oct 21 17:17:21 git, mercurial, bazaar... ... I'm just glad it's a distributed source control system Oct 21 17:17:26 mohbana, to piss off mercurial users Oct 21 17:17:58 maybe cuz most code hackers already have either git or svn (or both) and at least an opening familiarity with it. Oct 21 17:18:06 we use git for kernel development Oct 21 17:18:13 kidding:-) probably because git is good enough for what they do Oct 21 17:19:08 From git://android.kernel.org/platform/system/wlan/ti Oct 21 17:19:08 * [new tag] android-1.0 -> android-1.0 Oct 21 17:19:08 fatal: offset beyond end of packfile (truncated pack?) Oct 21 17:19:08 Traceback (most recent call last): Oct 21 17:19:08 File "/home/zach/workspace/android-git/.repo/repo/main.py", line 198, in ? Oct 21 17:19:09 _Main(sys.argv[1:]) Oct 21 17:19:19 repo died on me Oct 21 17:19:32 hi Oct 21 17:19:47 zhobbs, feels like one of those things where you probably just need to restart it a few times Oct 21 17:19:48 zhobbs: -> remote: fatal: unable to read 5b6e6f7f3fefc44fb9remote: 8e7fec61b5ab9069bc5513 Oct 21 17:19:53 for me on iptables Oct 21 17:20:04 BabelO: try to use python2.4 Oct 21 17:20:14 BabelO: http://source.android.com/known-issues Oct 21 17:21:16 davidw: restart via "repo sync", cause it gives the "unable to read 536e1a2c18eb6e222326512fc30bc0f6daf11fcc" when I try to restart it Oct 21 17:21:20 very old version. i know, i see the requirement, bad news Oct 21 17:21:32 BabelO: I'm sure they'll fix it Oct 21 17:21:41 zhobbs: Are accept patches to fix it. =) Oct 21 17:21:43 s/Are/Or/ Oct 21 17:21:44 jbailey meant: zhobbs: Or accept patches to fix it. =) Oct 21 17:21:54 infobot: Creepy. Oct 21 17:23:46 kernel.org is getting pounded :) Oct 21 17:24:11 jasta: kernel.org can handle it, I'm pretty sure Oct 21 17:24:22 they have fat pipes and big iron behind 'em Oct 21 17:24:23 wonder what they are using to host the git, smaller outfits use git-daemon, but github uses a custom erlang-based git server Oct 21 17:24:37 gdsx: well, maybe they can, the bandwidth is fluctuating wildly :) Oct 21 17:24:46 BBHoss: oh, we wrote our server in LOLCode Oct 21 17:24:56 heh Oct 21 17:25:21 Guys, why didn't you do that a few monts earlier?! I almost stopped hoping this would be a real open source projest, and that we would get a .zip source dump at most. Oct 21 17:25:27 Dumb question on the source release. My understanding is that the emulator is a qemu instance, so cpu-level changes can presumably be built and tested there. Is there any official mechanism for getting it onto the G1? Or do we have to wait for someone to reverse engineer the bootloader? Oct 21 17:25:55 andyross: for getting what onto the G1? Oct 21 17:26:07 any details on the cpu-type etc of the G1? Oct 21 17:26:17 Modified source code, e.g. hacks to dalvik, etc... Oct 21 17:26:24 BBHoss: ARM Oct 21 17:26:30 BBHoss: HTC's website might have more info Oct 21 17:26:36 reverse engineering is evidently needed Oct 21 17:26:38 And not it all looks to be done so right, I'm almost unable to resist the temptation to grab it and start sending patches. Oct 21 17:26:50 Holy crap they've open sourced EVERYTHING Oct 21 17:27:10 waldo_: it's sort of what we said we'd do... Oct 21 17:27:26 http://android.kernel.org/?p=platform/dalvik.git;a=tree;f=docs;h=f2fb051b2c110fc536a21d8c43f1cd0726294e27;hb=HEAD should be interesting to those interested in Dalvik. Oct 21 17:27:27 gdsx: Not only did they, they did it the right way! Oct 21 17:27:37 gdsx but- but... no one believed you :) Wow.. this is so awesome Oct 21 17:27:42 Like, it's almost impossible how they actually got it all right! Oct 21 17:27:55 The Qualcomm MSM7000 series is an ARMv6 core. Note that "ARM" is a more confusing space than even x86 these days. Oct 21 17:27:57 gdsx-- it's like you guys "get it" Oct 21 17:28:00 can i suggest a new topic? "START HERE: Known Issues: http://source.android.com/known-issues | Get the Source: http://source.android.com/ | No flashing production G1 YET." Oct 21 17:28:08 Of course, you need to download html/css pairs or the formatting is all tweaked on half the HTML files. Oct 21 17:28:29 he had the mozilla guys come down to your uni yesterday, they presented their new mobile browser, what really appealed to me as the ability to have everything in syn with my browser at home. anyhow, i wanted to know if it will be possible to actually run it on android. i presume you can't since developers only have access to the java layer Oct 21 17:28:51 I am totally blown away. Oct 21 17:29:01 even the applications. Oct 21 17:29:38 Disconnect: thats a good topic, /me seconds Oct 21 17:29:50 * ttuttle is getting "remote: aborting due to possible repository corruption on the remote side." "fatal: protocol error: bad pack header". Oct 21 17:29:59 wow Oct 21 17:30:00 I'm having trouble finding the online viewer for projects. Can somebody point me to that? Oct 21 17:30:01 that's known too Oct 21 17:30:16 I only see one email program listed here.. I heard there were two... gmail and a generic client Oct 21 17:30:36 The gmail app is not open sourced Oct 21 17:30:38 waldo_: GMail has proprietary code Oct 21 17:30:41 the Gmail client is not open sourced Oct 21 17:30:44 waldo_: I think gmail is just a WebView anyway Oct 21 17:30:59 zhobbs: that's incorrect Oct 21 17:31:00 you 3 need to work on your timing, romainguy was a little late. Oct 21 17:31:01 gdsx ahh. Is there a list of what is not opensourced, just for comparison? Oct 21 17:31:01 No, the gmail app on G1 is a real app. Oct 21 17:31:03 Right, a big html view Oct 21 17:31:09 hi :) Oct 21 17:31:09 gdsx if it was a webview it would probably be opened. Oct 21 17:31:20 istr its -very- similar to the j2me version -- probably shares at least some codebase Oct 21 17:31:36 gdsx: I know it's not "just" a WebView, but it's web based isn't it? Oct 21 17:31:40 (ok just to clear up confusion, Gmail is not a WebView) Oct 21 17:31:41 zhobbs: no Oct 21 17:31:58 zhobbs: it only uses a WebView to display conversations, the rest is all Views Oct 21 17:32:08 question-- can ANY application be removed-- if I want to use an enhanced email client, say, can I chuck the existing ones? Or do they provide essential services or are unremovable for some other reason? Oct 21 17:32:11 waldo_: I don't know everything, but gmail and IMPS are among the big ones Oct 21 17:32:43 the only obstacle to replacing built-in apps is that the file system is mounted read-only Oct 21 17:32:58 adb remount Oct 21 17:32:59 gdsx- if I switch to a network-based IM client (instead of text or IMPS or whateve rit's called) I can chuck built-in apps Oct 21 17:33:00 ? Oct 21 17:33:07 enf-- oh really? Oct 21 17:33:15 enf: adb remount Oct 21 17:33:40 ttuttle: you can't adb remount on production devices Oct 21 17:33:49 ...yet Oct 21 17:33:54 well, yes, yet Oct 21 17:34:07 Cedric2: ahh, ok...just checked it out with hierarchyviewer Oct 21 17:34:12 I wonder if you kill those apps whether you lose the services they provide that the OS depends on.. (?) Oct 21 17:34:13 t-mobile has deployed IMPS??!! Oct 21 17:34:24 Cedric2: the ListView looks like a WebView Oct 21 17:34:43 waldo_: if you kill a process that is providing a service, the system will try to restart it to get the service going again Oct 21 17:35:00 * Disconnect is gonna wait for jni (or whatever) before focusing on .. device security. :) Oct 21 17:35:06 enf I'm talking about removing it entirely Oct 21 17:35:19 zhobbs: not sure what you mean Oct 21 17:35:20 waldo_: can't flash production phones Oct 21 17:35:29 * Disconnect points to the topic where it doesn't say that right now :) Oct 21 17:35:30 Disc-- yet :) Oct 21 17:35:32 yah Oct 21 17:35:39 waldo_: yes, if you remove an important app, things that depend on that app being there will probably break in strange ways Oct 21 17:35:49 so, what's the relationship between gerrit and rietveld? Oct 21 17:35:50 if you mess around with a G1 phone you bought would that invalidate your service agreement with them? Oct 21 17:35:58 rdmltrs9: not if you don't tell them Oct 21 17:36:03 but you can install a similar app that responds to the same Intents Oct 21 17:36:16 enf I just wanna get rid of "dead weight" apps if I'm going to be using a replacement IM client, email client, etc... Oct 21 17:36:19 so don't change the bootup graphic until after there is a pretty gui app to do it :) Oct 21 17:36:27 strange, my bandwidth to android.kernel.org has slowed to a trickle. Oct 21 17:36:32 ...Comcast evils? Oct 21 17:36:38 prana: 'gerrit' is for people who can't pronounce 'rietveld' :) Oct 21 17:36:47 jasta: that or it just got slashdotted. :-) Oct 21 17:36:48 jasta: perhaps Oct 21 17:36:56 prana: they're the first and last name of the same person :o) Oct 21 17:37:00 wow. linux devices just jumped on the 1.5mil phones bandwagon Oct 21 17:37:16 I wish it'd work for me...even with python2.4 it died and now won't pick up where if left off Oct 21 17:37:16 waldo_: i don't think any other apps really depend upon Email or IM being there. Oct 21 17:37:20 awesome /. frontpage =D Oct 21 17:37:35 gdsx: i googled as much :-) i guess they're based on the same source at some point in the past? Oct 21 17:37:36 great, now i'll never get this finished :) Oct 21 17:37:37 enf: r u sure about this?..if you kill a process that is providing a service, the system will try to restart it to get the service going again Oct 21 17:37:41 yikes Oct 21 17:37:43 30k/s Oct 21 17:37:46 prana: yeah Oct 21 17:37:48 zhobbs: you may have to rm -rf and redo the whole init+sync process. we rewrote some of the externals to try and get around the python2.4 vs. 2.5 issues Oct 21 17:37:50 (bits) Oct 21 17:37:50 Linux phones have been selling pretty well already. The Motorola ROKR and RAZR2 are linux. A bunch of phones in Japan whose names I forget. It's not at all uncommon. Oct 21 17:38:04 * gdsx wonders where the cool kenrel.org bandwidth graphs went to Oct 21 17:38:05 dipen: yes. although if it dies again, there is a backoff to keep it from thrashing too much Oct 21 17:38:30 are you seeing your service not getting restarted when it should be? Oct 21 17:38:44 wouldn't it start the service only? Oct 21 17:39:04 OK, browsing the dalvik interpreter. Am I right that I'm seeing elaborate and extensive use of inline assembly for the arm target, yet ... no JIT? Should I be looking somewhere else? Oct 21 17:39:14 anyone hear anything about syncing w/mac's addressbook, ical & itunes? I haven't even begun to look into this Oct 21 17:39:14 spearce: thanks Oct 21 17:39:15 I mean, if you're going to be going platform specific anyway... Oct 21 17:39:49 dipen: oh yes... it will just restart the process and the service, not an application activity that happened to be in the same process Oct 21 17:39:55 so no x86 version for a while then? Oct 21 17:39:58 andyross: you're in the right place, Dalvik is a fast interpreter, not a JIT Oct 21 17:40:16 ali12341: There's a C version for x86 Oct 21 17:40:36 Right. But again, if you're working at the level of ARM assembly anyway, the added complication from generating code directly isn't that high. I'm just stunned that they bothered. Oct 21 17:40:56 Maybe I should just write a dalvik JIT myself. Think google would buy it? :) Oct 21 17:41:46 has google posted details about publishing apps on the market yet? Oct 21 17:41:49 andyross: you're welcome to write it and open-source it Oct 21 17:42:27 andyross: the assembly isn't inlined; it's one large blob assembled from individual pieces to make interpreter development easier (you can have some pieces written in C and some in asm) Oct 21 17:43:07 andyross: if you could write a JIT that doesn't use any additional memory and securely shares the generated code between processes, that would be great. Oct 21 17:43:21 :-) Oct 21 17:43:38 None of us will ever finish the download at this rate :) Oct 21 17:44:04 clearly, someone needs to combine git with bittorrent Oct 21 17:44:08 maybe nightlies (or at least 1.0) on bt Oct 21 17:44:10 heh Oct 21 17:44:37 oh man Oct 21 17:44:39 GITTORRENT! Oct 21 17:44:40 Maybe someone already has the complete download and wants to help out with that :) Oct 21 17:44:42 LOL Oct 21 17:44:45 The second requirement can be done via shared mappings and a central "code server" or whatnot. The first is obviously a non-starter if you're talking about storage, although RAM needn't have both versions there. But I'm broadly serious here: the lack of a fast VM is going to make lots of stuff (games) decidedly clunkier on Android when compared with Windows Mobile or the iPhone. Oct 21 17:45:23 andyross: there's a saying around google: "sounds like a great 20% project" Oct 21 17:45:26 andyross: we know Oct 21 17:45:38 gdsx: hmmm, i thought that was a joke...but: http://gittorrent.utsl.gen.nz/ Oct 21 17:45:38 Well, the iPhone. I have no particular experience with the .NET VM on ARM, although I vaguely remember someone posting a set of benchmarks once. Oct 21 17:45:47 You have to draw the line somewhere for 1.0. Oct 21 17:45:52 where's the source for MediaScanner? Oct 21 17:45:54 strawberrypi: it was a joke... wow... Oct 21 17:45:56 * gdsx looks Oct 21 17:45:57 specificlaly, the MediaScanner class Oct 21 17:46:08 the git sync is too slow so i can't just find/grep Oct 21 17:46:24 1 KiB/s Oct 21 17:46:24 http://gittorrent.utsl.gen.nz/rfc.html specifically Oct 21 17:46:26 wooo Oct 21 17:46:32 yakischloba: yeah, me too Oct 21 17:46:37 stupid kernel.org, why is this not mirrored? Oct 21 17:46:44 It's working for me. Oct 21 17:46:49 I was hoping to pull it down to my work server at least, before this happened. Oct 21 17:46:52 Now it's hopeless :) Oct 21 17:47:02 jasta: frameworks/base/media/java/android/media/MediaScanner.java ? Oct 21 17:47:09 jasta: it's in frameworks/base/media/java/etc. Oct 21 17:47:12 actually.... Oct 21 17:47:15 ok thx Oct 21 17:47:16 fadden0: I know. It's not the lack of a JIT specifically that surprises me. It's that time was spent doing low-level optimization of the interpreter *instead* of writing a JIT. Having a little experience at that level, I guess I'm surprised. Once you uncork the ISA-specific stuff, generating code isn't that hard (and ARM is a *really* simple architecture) Oct 21 17:47:16 * gdsx tries a kernel.org mirror Oct 21 17:47:18 andyross: I think it's also a bit of a simplification to say "the lack of a fast VM". The VM is actually quite fast; JIT is not a complete panacea, and involves tradeoffs of its own. Oct 21 17:47:18 er, just was fadden said Oct 21 17:47:54 andyross: And we definitely look forward to your input and patches here. Oct 21 17:48:01 jasta: might be here: http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/packages/providers/MediaProvider.git;a=tree Oct 21 17:48:13 wow source is released and i didnt even notice :D Oct 21 17:48:18 no its in the frameworks path for sure Oct 21 17:48:22 maybe i'm lucky but i'm over 1M/s Oct 21 17:48:25 stadlero: If there's a piece of code doing an inspection of each instruction in the stream, that's a factor of 3-4 right there. I'm not (exactly) telling you guys how to write your code. Just that I'm not sure I agree with the prioritization here. Oct 21 17:48:25 andyross: doing a JIT is a lot more work than the asm interpreter was. Oct 21 17:48:31 Disconnect: stop stealing my bandwidth! Oct 21 17:48:35 i'm curious how they are doing this efficiently. they must be avoiding contentproviders or something Oct 21 17:48:38 i'll sell it back to you later. Oct 21 17:49:07 http://android.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/providers/MediaProvider.git;a=summary Oct 21 17:49:18 dipen: no, not there :) Oct 21 17:49:19 andyross: and yet the VM we have is fast enough for all the apps we wanted to write so far Oct 21 17:49:42 Dang it, I have to leave just as the conversation was getting interesting. :-) Oct 21 17:50:11 remote: Counting objects: 430435 -- does this take a while? Oct 21 17:50:24 ahh speeding back up Oct 21 17:50:42 remote: aborting due to possible repository corruption on the remote side. Oct 21 17:50:55 wow, so there is no optimization here during the scanner to use prepared statements or transactions? Oct 21 17:50:57 anyone else having problems with webkit stage of repo sync? /me thinks git.webkit.org is slashdotted. slowed to a crawl, now apparently stopped.. Oct 21 17:51:09 jasta: fyi, it goes into an SQL database in /data/data/com.android.providers.media , pulling that db up with sqlite3 was helpful for me Oct 21 17:51:13 yeah i had problems with that Oct 21 17:51:13 i've been talking to some sqlite3 developers lately who have screamed bloody murder at this usage Oct 21 17:51:15 romainguy_: Sure sure. But again: games in obj-C for the iPhone or .NET for Windows Mobile are going to have a *lot* more CPU time available. That's a decidedly non-trivial disadvantage for android. You can make the system fast for a video player, for example, by making the codecs native code. External developers don't have that advantage. Oct 21 17:51:21 mwrobot: yes, everyone is Oct 21 17:51:26 zhobbs: i'm not interestedi n the database, but how it gets populated. Oct 21 17:51:31 andyross: *we know* Oct 21 17:51:31 gotcha Oct 21 17:51:33 gdsx: ok, great :) Oct 21 17:52:19 My repo sync is stuck on "Initializing project platform/external/webkit ..." Oct 21 17:52:20 Should I restart it? Oct 21 17:52:22 andyross: you're 3 weeks (5 weeks?) late to the debate here. but it might be worth filing a bug on. give them something to hang the JNI (or equiv) support off of. Oct 21 17:52:26 jasta: are you still looking for MediaScanner? http://android.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob_plain;f=media/java/android/media/MediaScanner.java;hb=HEAD Oct 21 17:52:32 ttuttle: mine too :( Oct 21 17:52:38 * ttuttle restarts. Oct 21 17:52:38 ttuttle: afaict that won't help, webkit's git appears to be overloaded imo Oct 21 17:52:39 enf: i found it, thx Oct 21 17:52:44 hey ttuttle Oct 21 17:52:55 Damn. Oct 21 17:52:59 steventroughtons: hey Oct 21 17:53:03 steventroughtons: What's up? Oct 21 17:53:05 yeah mine is stuck on the same Oct 21 17:53:13 was working earlier Oct 21 17:53:13 steventroughtons: :( Oct 21 17:53:23 but then i had the hash mismatch bug Oct 21 17:53:35 so i reinited, now trying to pull the lot Oct 21 17:54:00 Does Android have some kind of automatic update/reflash feature when google does a system update? I'm assuming it does... Oct 21 17:54:06 waldo_: Yes. Oct 21 17:54:18 how automatic is it? :( Oct 21 17:54:21 I thought updates were left up to the carrier? Oct 21 17:54:28 or has that changed :P Oct 21 17:54:32 steventroughtons: Oh, maybe. Oct 21 17:54:48 the next few days are going to be interesting... Oct 21 17:54:58 if we want to reflash to another "provider"... I'm assuming we can.. Oct 21 17:54:59 that they are. Oct 21 17:55:03 esp for whoever has to admin the webkit repo :) Oct 21 17:55:05 the project site mentioned that google wont provide 'updates' to existing devices, just the updated code to the carriers for them to send out Oct 21 17:55:08 if they send it out Oct 21 17:55:13 waldo_: Oh no, unlocking is not that easy. ;-) Oct 21 17:55:37 * steventroughtons pokes platform/external/webkit… Oct 21 17:55:39 I want Android on N770....get to work minions! Oct 21 17:55:39 hey, i just noticed a slight trick in here Oct 21 17:55:40 what's the point of having the source if you can't put a new Android on your phone...? Oct 21 17:55:47 getContentResolver().acquireProvider("...")? Oct 21 17:55:52 is this a pretty significant optimization to use? Oct 21 17:55:54 yeah.. repo is dead for me right now Oct 21 17:55:55 waldo_: You could put it on a device that someone else did not partially pay for. Oct 21 17:55:55 can i suggest a new topic again? "START HERE: Known Issues: http://source.android.com/known-issues | Get the Source: http://source.android.com/ | No flashing production G1 YET." Oct 21 17:55:59 so the webkit source is like 1/3 of the total size? ;) Oct 21 17:56:22 tuttle-- I paid 100% for it. Even if tmobile was a proxy in that Oct 21 17:56:32 waldo_: You paid $400? Oct 21 17:56:37 I will. Oct 21 17:56:49 I might pay the $400 as well Oct 21 17:56:50 i dont think the source includes any of the apps like mail, IM, or does it? Oct 21 17:56:52 I'm not worried tmobile is losing moning Oct 21 17:56:54 waldo_: Then I guess you should talk to them about getting it unlocked. Oct 21 17:56:58 steventroughtons: it does Oct 21 17:57:04 oho, very nice Oct 21 17:57:07 steventroughtons: there is a site that describes apps that are in there. Oct 21 17:57:10 I can stick them in the emulator then :D Oct 21 17:57:24 Ttuttle-- Are we talking about unlocking the simcard or unlocking the firmware? They'll do the former. Oct 21 17:57:49 hrm...repo thing seems hung on webkit Oct 21 17:57:57 * steventroughtons snoozes while waiting for webkit repo Oct 21 17:58:12 so when is google code going to support git? Oct 21 17:58:28 waldo_: never mind Oct 21 17:58:35 hmm Oct 21 17:58:35 steventroughtons: http://source.android.com/projects Oct 21 17:59:17 I dont see the android marketplace there, that left out? Oct 21 17:59:29 its probably not open sourced. Oct 21 17:59:33 aha Oct 21 17:59:34 I trust google w/firmware updates... I have a feeling they'll release often. Tmobile...? Are they really gonna stay on top of it. Oct 21 17:59:37 remember not all the google branded apps are open sourced. Oct 21 17:59:43 i was just thinking about pimping out my emulator with the real stuff Oct 21 17:59:56 i need to get a device Oct 21 18:00:00 since I'll have to wait a million years for the G1 in Ireland :P Oct 21 18:00:03 Strictly, marketplace is a service anyway. The fact that there's an application associated with it isn't all that interesting IMHO. Oct 21 18:00:09 'I want aqua walls throughout the house and pink/purple for the kitchen' wtf? Oct 21 18:00:12 nokia preferably and get android running on it Oct 21 18:00:19 hey wait a minute. ContentResolver#acquireProvider isn't in the 1.0 SD? Oct 21 18:00:24 SDK* Oct 21 18:00:52 then it's not a public API Oct 21 18:01:07 I wonder if there are any easter egg comments in the sourcecode? ;) Oct 21 18:01:22 anyone grep it for cursing? Oct 21 18:01:32 I would if webkit started pinging :P Oct 21 18:01:33 romainguy_: so is this a common thing that you guys are doing? using private/unpublished APIs? Oct 21 18:01:43 jasta: there are some Oct 21 18:01:55 they are noted in the code with @hide Oct 21 18:02:08 it's usually stuff that's not ready to be a public API Oct 21 18:02:21 or sometimes a way to have "friends" in Java Oct 21 18:02:21 it's not cheating to have the library have its own internal APIs... it's only cheating if apps call them Oct 21 18:02:23 Or deprecated things that will be going away shortly Oct 21 18:02:34 hmm, in this case it seems pretty obvious you'd want to provide it as an optimization. Oct 21 18:02:39 that's how the MediaScanner is using it i think Oct 21 18:02:47 do i sometimes have to restart sync from scratch? Oct 21 18:02:50 can it get in a bad state? Oct 21 18:02:56 although i am still quite confused how the MediaScanner achieves decent performance. Oct 21 18:03:11 it runs outside of a transaction and doesn't use prepared statements... Oct 21 18:03:12 what we're getting now is the same branch google people are working from, or something older? Oct 21 18:03:14 who says its performance is decent? ;) Oct 21 18:03:30 right, ok, :) Oct 21 18:03:33 strawberrypi: you're getting what's in the G1 Oct 21 18:03:43 * strawberrypi is new to git :). ok. Oct 21 18:03:44 jasta: in my experience it takes quite a long time to scan a big collection.... Oct 21 18:03:47 marcone: i'm thinkin' it's probably not :) Oct 21 18:03:50 jasta: you mean instead of using ContentResolver.insert(), to avoid having to have ContentResolver.insert() do its own acquireProvider() call each time? Oct 21 18:04:01 enf: yes Oct 21 18:04:16 it could be relevant when you have thousands of calls to make Oct 21 18:04:21 jasta: also, what do you think takes more time, opening the media files on the sd card and getting their metadata (e.g. id3 tags), or inserting that data in to the database? Oct 21 18:04:51 marcone: well that's not what i'm worried about actually. i was hoping to discover a ebtter algorithm here to use in my code Oct 21 18:04:57 and found the same slow crap i'm using ;) Oct 21 18:04:57 adding transactions and whatnot to the media provider isn't going to improve its speed much Oct 21 18:05:00 dammit Oct 21 18:05:09 marcone: in my usage, i don't do any scanning, i just download tag data and toss it into a database Oct 21 18:05:11 fatal: read error (Connection reset by peer) Oct 21 18:05:11 error: Cannot fetch platform/external/webkit Oct 21 18:05:11 anyone happy yet? Oct 21 18:05:20 not having transactions or prepared statements _is_ a bottleneck for me. Oct 21 18:05:20 steventroughtons: :( Oct 21 18:05:21 * steventroughtons pokes webkit again Oct 21 18:05:42 steventroughtons: yeah, apple hates us Oct 21 18:05:46 jasta: in that case, try doing a bulkInsert() Oct 21 18:05:47 Haha Oct 21 18:05:49 also, sqlite3 is really inefficient without transactions. every UPDATE/INSERT/DELETE is automatically wrapped in its own transaction if you dont use it Oct 21 18:05:55 steventroughtons: which is, to say, they're probably not sufficiently provisioned for this Oct 21 18:06:07 marcone: well i can't use bulkInsert either, because i'm downloading this data. buffering large quantities would be very wasteful Oct 21 18:06:27 marcone: what i'm looking at doing is trying to bypass the contentprovider mechanism entirely and just open the database separately in the sync process Oct 21 18:06:31 oh so its the standard webkit tree from apple? we can download from a mirror? Oct 21 18:06:43 jasta: That's typical of all databases. They don't return from a query until the resulting state can be guaranteed. If you don't specify a transaction, it assumes you want verification of all queries. Oct 21 18:06:49 but i'm not sure if that design can work because of SQLite3 limitations (can the provider and the sync engine both have it open for writes?) Oct 21 18:07:02 Howdy marcone. Can I still get a SoundPlay license? ;-) Oct 21 18:07:03 steventroughtons: you might be able to modify the manifest somehow; I don't know Oct 21 18:07:06 Not sure, but I'm sure there's some mode where you can get sqlite into a buffered/unverified mode. Oct 21 18:07:07 andyross: right, i know that, i'm just pointing it out because you NEED to be using a transaction here. Oct 21 18:07:10 trey! Oct 21 18:07:11 yeah the manifest is easy to edit Oct 21 18:07:16 swetland! Oct 21 18:07:18 TreyB: sure! Oct 21 18:07:20 been a while Oct 21 18:07:25 swetland: how's it goingG? Oct 21 18:07:27 *going? Oct 21 18:07:38 git://git.webkit.org/WebKit.git Oct 21 18:07:39 damn, everyone is coming out of the woodworks today Oct 21 18:07:42 busy Oct 21 18:07:42 thats whats timing out Oct 21 18:07:44 * jbq waves at TreyB Oct 21 18:07:45 jasta: they can in theory, but your app would have to have permission to open the database directly, which it probably doesn't. Oct 21 18:07:55 I thought I saw you in the foam-bot raising pictures, swetland. Oct 21 18:08:07 * TreyB waves back to jbq. Oct 21 18:08:09 marcone: of course it does, it's my database Oct 21 18:08:34 swetland: You should consider mirroring webkit. They're probably crying in their server room right now. Oct 21 18:08:41 haha Oct 21 18:08:44 yea Oct 21 18:08:45 jasta: oh, I thought you were talking about putting data in a system database Oct 21 18:08:47 right i'm modding the manifest to download the rest before attempting webkit Oct 21 18:09:10 marcone: no, i have my own meta database that i maintain separately from MediaStore. i collect tags for that database from SyncML to my server Oct 21 18:09:30 so i'm just receiving database operations and performing them locally. Oct 21 18:09:39 is there a way to skip webkit, and download it after? Oct 21 18:09:39 database performance is critical to this operation, and right now its VERY slow Oct 21 18:09:44 topeira: yes Oct 21 18:09:53 edit the manifest.xml in .repo Oct 21 18:10:04 but i can imagine it might break things badly later on =) Oct 21 18:10:09 marcone: i then expose that meta database through a provider to other parts of my system to use Oct 21 18:10:24 steventroughtons: thanks Oct 21 18:10:25 since nothing else needs quite the same level of performance as the sync process, i want that code to open the db file directly and open a transaction Oct 21 18:10:36 there are a lot of reasons for a transaction there actually. if it fails, it should roll back completely Oct 21 18:10:43 and while it syncs, other systems shouldnt see any new data Oct 21 18:10:47 jasta: It looks like "pragma synchronous = OFF;" is what you want: http://sqlite.org/pragma.html Oct 21 18:10:55 andyross: yes, i already need that too :) Oct 21 18:11:09 No, you just need that. It disables the per-statement autocommit. Oct 21 18:11:19 i'm planning to set synchronous = OFF while syncing in a transaction, then turn it back on when i commit Oct 21 18:11:21 has anyone here used that "invisible sheild)"(@zagg.com) and is it worth it or a scam>? Oct 21 18:11:38 has anyone gotten through the webkit git? Oct 21 18:11:48 andyross: except that i lose the logical benefit of having transactions, and i still waste cycles preparing statements Oct 21 18:11:56 jasta: No need. Use either transactions or that. Transactions are a better choice; don't use unsafe I/O if you are willing to eat the complexity anyway./ Oct 21 18:12:06 preparing statements is actually probably quite heavy when you're talking about thousands of statements coming together with lots of fields. Oct 21 18:12:20 But if you just want fast buffered I/O with a SQL interface, that pragma will work for you. Oct 21 18:12:42 TreyB: Howdy Oct 21 18:12:45 jasta: is there a reason you couldn't just open the database as a file and do whatever you wanted to it instead of going through the content provider interface? Oct 21 18:12:50 jasta: possibly dumb idea - can you flag rows inserted by the sync code as provisional, and then execute an update to clear the flag when you finished (and in the content provider exclude flagged rows) Oct 21 18:13:01 I'm not sure if that helps at all tbh Oct 21 18:13:06 enf: that's the concern, i'm not sure if the contentprovider is getting an exclusive lock or anything like that Oct 21 18:13:17 because i also need the contentprovider to give this data to other apks Oct 21 18:13:33 tomgibara: that wouldn't do anything to help performance Oct 21 18:14:00 enf: i was going to experiment with that, but i was hoping the MediaScanner just did it already so i could see that this design works with android :) Oct 21 18:14:01 jasta: I know, but it might allow you to commit provisional rows in batches Oct 21 18:14:02 in any case, unless you're bottlenecked by database insert speed, and are actually downloading the data faster than you can insert it in to the database (even when using bulkInsert), I wouldn't worry about it too much. Oct 21 18:14:34 marcone: i have benchmarked this, the greatest cpu time is in database ops. Oct 21 18:15:12 i even loved the new picture, http://code.google.com/ Oct 21 18:15:23 but the greatest time is in network I/O, still, no reason to hammer the processor/disk. Oct 21 18:15:46 again, have you tried bulkInsert? It really helped a LOT when I started using that for playlist-creation. Oct 21 18:16:08 IIRC, the time it took to create a playlist of all files improved by a factor of 15 or so Oct 21 18:16:09 marcone: i don't want to do the buffering, it's not optimal Oct 21 18:16:32 i'd rather just design this part of my application correctly if you don't mind :) Oct 21 18:17:03 Be my guest. Oct 21 18:17:05 i am just going to confirm for myself that i can open my database on disk while the contentprovider has it open Oct 21 18:17:11 sqlite3 should support this i think Oct 21 18:17:15 it does Oct 21 18:17:27 FWIW the following workaround was successful: ln -s /usr/bin/python2.4 /home/tmarble/bin/python Oct 21 18:17:34 it actually will be simpler this way. less fussing with the contentproviders goofy semantics Oct 21 18:18:36 also note that even if you're exposing this to other apps using a content provider interface, there's no real need to use a database at all. If you can think of a better/faster way to store your data, just use that. Oct 21 18:18:56 jasta: You can do that, however it isn't well tested and you may hit timeouts if one process is holding the database lock for a long time Oct 21 18:19:37 I want Android on my iphone :( Oct 21 18:20:55 jham__: if the sync operation is entirely in a transaction, the lock should only be held during COMMIT right? Oct 21 18:21:16 * jasta reads some sqlite3 documentation Oct 21 18:21:37 jasta: http://sqlite.org/lang_transaction.html Oct 21 18:21:44 jasta: if that's the case, then that means that sqlite3 is doing the buffering for you, isn't it? Which means it's "not optimal" :) Oct 21 18:21:53 jasta: I think the default is an exclusive transaction Oct 21 18:22:49 marcone: well someone has to do buffering, i was saying its not optimal for both of us to do the buffering. Oct 21 18:23:18 cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-m32" ; make: *** [out/host/linux-x86/obj/EXECUTABLES/acp_intermediates/acp.o] Error 1 Oct 21 18:23:22 Thoughts? Oct 21 18:23:28 bricode: what OS? Oct 21 18:23:36 how do you skip webkit in the repo sync? now the webkit git server is not syn/acking new tcp connections. Oct 21 18:23:37 bricode: easy answer, "use GCC" Oct 21 18:23:44 gdsx: Ubuntu Oct 21 18:23:50 bricode: Which Ubuntu? Oct 21 18:23:57 Modern ones should respect -m32. Oct 21 18:23:58 bricode, you got webkit after all? Oct 21 18:24:08 That's a gcc option that causes a 64 bit gcc to generate 32 bit code. It's not a noop on a 32 bit platform, I think, just an error. Oct 21 18:24:09 bricode: what does `gcc --version` say? Oct 21 18:24:10 bricode: looks like your compiler is not gcc, or at best some version of gcc that doesn't know about -m32 Oct 21 18:24:15 bodhian: It helps when you've got a server sitting on a fat pipe :) Oct 21 18:24:29 gcc (GCC) 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7) Oct 21 18:24:58 andyross: I just tried; I think you may be mistaken Oct 21 18:25:20 bricode: Are you in i386 or amd64? Oct 21 18:25:22 Could be. I don't have a 32 bit box handy. But the error is clearly from gcc./ Oct 21 18:25:29 bricode: echo 'int main(){return 0;}' > foo.c; gcc -m32 -o foo foo.c Oct 21 18:25:30 bricode: Like, you're not sitting on a PPC box or something? Oct 21 18:25:33 bricode: does that line work? Oct 21 18:25:53 gdsx: Yep. Compiles. Oct 21 18:26:06 * ttuttle has an Alpha if anyone wants to try. Oct 21 18:26:21 i386 Oct 21 18:26:23 bricode: hmm... is it possible you have an old version of some compiler hanging around in /usr/local or somewhere? Oct 21 18:27:21 gdsx: don't think so... Oct 21 18:27:34 it's a fresh VM install. Oct 21 18:28:01 64 bit compile does NOT work. need to have a 32bit chroot env Oct 21 18:28:14 klierman: shit, really? Oct 21 18:28:16 bricode: `locate -r '/cc1$'` Oct 21 18:28:18 yup Oct 21 18:28:19 klierman: I've got 64-bit :( Oct 21 18:28:24 it's a 32 bit vm Oct 21 18:28:24 klierman: what doesn't work? Oct 21 18:28:27 me too... and a chroot ;) Oct 21 18:28:29 bricode: if you just type "gcc -m32 test.cpp", what does it say? Oct 21 18:28:32 so what is the count of people who have told us we need a JIT Oct 21 18:28:39 marcone: it works; see above Oct 21 18:28:46 without any performance numbers, memory numbers, etc Oct 21 18:28:49 you need a JITT++ Oct 21 18:28:57 the precompiled stuff doesn't support 64-bit Oct 21 18:29:19 klierman: but it should run if you've got ia32libs or equivalent Oct 21 18:30:01 klierman: on my x86-64 machine running Debian, I can run 32-bit apps just fine Oct 21 18:30:05 Where is the compiler set/picked up? Oct 21 18:30:39 at some point i messed with the -m32 switches, removed them, etc... still fails later in qemu stuff for the emulator, etc. not saying it couldn't work, but it didn't work well a while back Oct 21 18:30:39 bricode: can you try the `locate` line I gave you above? Oct 21 18:30:42 DannyB: please don't. CPU time is still a serious issue for a lot of apps, and even if a JIT does nothing but avoid the indirection on opcode, it's saving about 3-400% overhead. Apple has a TV ad in heavy rotation as we speak that shows beautiful games that may very well not be possible on the G1. It's OK you don't have it now, but don't pretend you don't need it. Oct 21 18:30:54 klierman: how long ago is "a while back"? Oct 21 18:31:02 andyross: nummmmmmberrrrrrs Oct 21 18:31:10 not sure i can say ;) Oct 21 18:31:14 prooooooooooooooveeeeeeeeeeee ittttttttttt Oct 21 18:31:28 DannyB: one letter per letter, please. Oct 21 18:31:34 thank you :) Oct 21 18:31:37 ;) Oct 21 18:31:49 klierman: essentially, the question is "is this with the source that was opened this morning"? Oct 21 18:32:14 are there any alternatives to retrieve webkit? Oct 21 18:32:30 bricode, can you share your git ;) Oct 21 18:32:32 bodhian, I heard Google is setting up a mule train to pack out the sources Oct 21 18:32:33 You can't seriously be a google employee, can you? Seriously dude, show some professionalism. If you want me to write you a benchmark, I will as soon as I get the phone. But don't pretend that your VM gets JIT-like performance, that's just dumb. Oct 21 18:32:39 davidw: hahaha Oct 21 18:32:50 andyross: You assume you need a JIT to produce good games Oct 21 18:32:55 which is a very false assumption Oct 21 18:33:13 DannyB, no, what he said is that you need speed for a certain category of games Oct 21 18:33:16 andyross: So let me get this straight. You have no phone, have developed no apps, and yet pretend to know what the performance problems are. Yes this is very professional and sane Oct 21 18:33:26 you can certainly produce lots of great games that have no speed requirements Oct 21 18:33:35 mattl: hey! Oct 21 18:33:37 Depends on the game. The 3D stuff has an acceleration API. The game logic and simulation stuff doesn't. I've written both, and trust me I know what I'm talking about. And stop your ridiculous flaming, you're only hurting the platform. We can discuss this like adults, right? Oct 21 18:33:40 davidw: or you can do what most sane people do on phones and write native code for your games Oct 21 18:33:41 but there is certainly a category of games that requires it Oct 21 18:33:47 * ttuttle tries webkit again. Oct 21 18:33:51 lh: hey. robin and i are sick :( Oct 21 18:33:53 DannyB, 'native code'? Oct 21 18:33:58 mirror webkit! Oct 21 18:34:04 Let's all agree to stop downloading webkit for a little while :) Oct 21 18:34:11 Except me. Oct 21 18:34:12 just skip webkit Oct 21 18:34:13 Then I'll mirror it. Oct 21 18:34:21 I'll mirror too! Oct 21 18:34:22 ttuttle: great thinking :) Oct 21 18:34:24 trying to pull down the new android source. I ran the repo -u init command and it asked for me to register my name by running git config --global, etc. I did that and then when I try to re-run the repo -u init git command it says the repo already exists. Oct 21 18:34:28 gdsx: locate wasn't installed. Give me a second. Oct 21 18:34:33 Example; I wrote the YASim engine in FlightGear. No way will that work running on a ~600 MHz ARM with interpreted bytecode, even those the box it was written on was objectively slower. Oct 21 18:34:39 cyrus__: delete .repo/ Oct 21 18:34:55 yakischloba - I do and then it asks for me to run the git config --global again to identify myself Oct 21 18:34:57 andyross: i write jits and compilers for a living. A JIT is not going to help your games in any real manner. JNI would. Oct 21 18:35:06 The fact that repo fails when some external git is down seems to be a bit of misingeneering.. Oct 21 18:35:09 andyross: and if you take a look, you'd see it's not that hard to write JNI code for android Oct 21 18:35:21 xl0: Well, if it can't check it out, it can't check it out! Oct 21 18:35:22 andyross: So if you want to claim you need a JIT for some class of games, please produce the games Oct 21 18:35:34 cyrus__: Hrm. That's strange. Oct 21 18:35:39 andyross: instead of sitting here with no data telling people who have written games for the G1 that perform just fine, that it can't be done! Oct 21 18:35:42 OK, actually you sold me. The market downloadable stuff can include shared libraries? I thought I'd been told differently. If that API is available to the public, then I withdraw my argument. Oct 21 18:35:51 ttuttle: Should be able to skip the external remote and proceed with the andpoid one. Oct 21 18:35:54 yakischloba - ya...so I am stuck in this loop I can't get out of Oct 21 18:35:59 xl0: Oh, I see. Oct 21 18:36:16 See? You don't have to tell me I'm an idiot to win your arguments. All you need to do is tell me nice things about the platform. No nuuuummmmbbbberrrrrs required. Oct 21 18:36:25 andyross: If you google around you'll see people have already figured out how to produce JNI linking stuff for android. We haven't provided an official kit AFAIK Oct 21 18:36:26 The andpoid one is anyway the one that is goind to be built. Oct 21 18:36:54 bricode: I've got to run, but good luck Oct 21 18:36:57 gdsx: My bad. Oct 21 18:37:04 * waldo_ climbs out from behind the wagon wheel.. is it over? Oct 21 18:37:07 gdsx: There was an older toolchain. It's gone now. Oct 21 18:37:11 gdsx: Thanks for the help. Oct 21 18:37:13 np Oct 21 18:37:26 DannyB: my question was whether user-downloadable stuff from the market would be able to include native code, though. I think (though I can't remember where) that I was told that it wasn't. Obviously the existing source drop allows us to build that code. But can we get it onto a user's phone? Oct 21 18:37:51 andyross: not yet; we're working on a native code devkit Oct 21 18:37:57 * gdsx disappears Oct 21 18:37:58 andyross: If we didn't let that happen, how would we produce games? Oct 21 18:38:02 ;) Oct 21 18:38:16 I'm guessing the holdup is related to security? Oct 21 18:39:17 It's mostly about getting the tools ready Oct 21 18:39:26 Then I'm not sure how this helps the argument. The requirement is for fast CPU access. Native code would work great, JIT would work great. The 1.0 release apparently has neither, and yet you're flaming people instead of admitting it's a known issue and saying you're working on it? Guys, you really need to get a few PR folks on this channel. Oct 21 18:39:31 * bricode watches the beauty of a parallel build. Oct 21 18:39:56 I just wish mommy and daddy would stop fighting. Oct 21 18:40:42 andyross: but a jit won't work actually. It really doesn't solve the problem you are after Oct 21 18:40:47 it really really doesn't Oct 21 18:40:56 a JIT ? just in time? Oct 21 18:41:06 How do I remove a remote from the repo? If I comment it out from the .git config, repo adds it again.. Oct 21 18:41:10 DannyB, they why is everyone and their mother building one? Mono, Java, even Javascript from what I understand Oct 21 18:41:14 a JIT on a memory constrained CPU time constrained device like a phone can't do the kinds of optimizations necessary to make your game code real fast anyway Oct 21 18:41:16 milluminu, yeah Oct 21 18:41:21 davidw: becuase they are for desktops? Oct 21 18:41:31 xl0: remove it from manifest.xml Oct 21 18:41:32 andyross, I'm confused about the performance question. I've seen them demo doom on the handset. Why would you think the performance isn't good enough using the java application layer? Oct 21 18:41:42 topeira: Thanks. Oct 21 18:41:45 DannyB, good point Oct 21 18:41:49 DannyB: that's just wrong, sorry. CPU cycles are comparatively *more* important on an box where cache latencies are lower in cycle count. Oct 21 18:42:11 this is a dumb question-- but doom isn't written in java, so how did they get it working? Oct 21 18:42:23 PFM Oct 21 18:42:28 andyross: Dude, i do compiler algorithms for a living. I maintain several areas of GCC, LLVM, and have contributed to a ton of JIT's. I'm telling you the algorithms necessary to do good optimization just don't run fast enough on phones Oct 21 18:42:41 prison fellowship ministries? Oct 21 18:42:50 You are 100x better off using native code facilities then trying to get a JIT that can create fast enough code Oct 21 18:42:54 not quite Oct 21 18:42:56 on a desktop it's wildly different Oct 21 18:43:11 Pure F*%&^% Magic Oct 21 18:43:12 DannyB: Absolutely agree. I'd prefer native code too. But we don't have that yet either. Oct 21 18:43:15 * tmarble grumbles that aidl seems to be missing some includes Oct 21 18:43:33 actually someone wrote doom in java.. never mind Oct 21 18:43:59 And guys: doom ran just fine on a 33Mhz 80486. Not really the best test. Oct 21 18:44:22 all this JIT talk is fascinating...but the key point is...hurry up and port Android to N770...slow people Oct 21 18:44:55 I would love android on the NITs :) Oct 21 18:45:05 lol Oct 21 18:45:15 can someone port android to my toaster? Oct 21 18:45:21 Android for everything! I want it on my alarm clock and toothbrush! Oct 21 18:45:23 waldo_: possibly Oct 21 18:45:31 hello there Oct 21 18:45:36 You've had the code for like a couple of hours now, really how hard can it be? dot some t's cross some i's Oct 21 18:45:48 so have you Oct 21 18:45:54 get cracking Oct 21 18:45:58 michaelnovakjr_: oh shuhs :D Oct 21 18:46:01 shush* Oct 21 18:46:17 any Tilt / Kaiser owners here? Oct 21 18:46:21 there was a hacked early version running a while back, it's possible Oct 21 18:46:30 Wow, we've really destroyed webkit. Oct 21 18:46:34 <- can't wait to run it on my iopener Oct 21 18:46:42 ttuttle: :) Oct 21 18:46:53 waldo_: Android on iPhone = win Oct 21 18:47:01 ttuttle: forgot to give them a heads up? Oct 21 18:47:22 michaelnovakjr_: I'm not sure. Oct 21 18:47:27 michaelnovakjr_: I believe they knew about it. Oct 21 18:47:32 vicki yeah that woudl be neat-o. Oct 21 18:47:51 ttuttle: i guess during that time a mirror would have been a good choice :) Oct 21 18:48:13 michaelnovakjr_: I'll put one up if someone sends me a copy of the repo. Oct 21 18:48:24 ttuttle +1 Oct 21 18:48:28 ooh. just editing ~/mydroid/.repo/manifest.xml and removing the one webkit container seems to work Oct 21 18:48:28 +2 Oct 21 18:48:35 ttuttle: i'm working on it Oct 21 18:48:45 i'll have something up at androidnerds as well Oct 21 18:49:07 I have a VPS I can use. Oct 21 18:49:22 i've got unlimited bandwidth :) Oct 21 18:49:29 michaelnovakjr_: I don't. Oct 21 18:49:29 I work at a data center ;) Oct 21 18:49:30 ssshhh Oct 21 18:49:55 yakischloba: less chatting, more mirroring ;) Oct 21 18:50:08 mattl: have the repo? send to me! ;) Oct 21 18:50:08 hola Oct 21 18:50:09 Does *anyone* here have a checked-out copy of webkit? Oct 21 18:50:14 mattl: Or me. Oct 21 18:50:27 We need a BitTorrent backend for git! Oct 21 18:50:28 I take it the source repo got slashdotted? Oct 21 18:50:29 ok now it looks like the checksum error is fixed, but now after deleting tree and starting again, and getting farther i get "read error (connectionr eset by pear) error cannont fetch platform/external/webkit" Oct 21 18:50:36 ttuttle: It seems I would have gotten it if I'd started about 3 minute earlier, and I didn't start until about an hour after the release so someone must. Oct 21 18:50:38 sixbit: Yeah. We killed webkit's server. Oct 21 18:50:47 and then killed it some more Oct 21 18:50:47 yakischloba: damn. Oct 21 18:50:48 ok :-) Oct 21 18:50:52 sixbit: edit ~/mydroid/.repo/manifest.xml Oct 21 18:51:03 and retry :) Oct 21 18:51:08 strawberrypi: nice tip on skipping the WebKit d/l...I'm back in business :) Oct 21 18:51:38 ttuttle: if they partially paid for it then i can get out of my contract free, right? Oct 21 18:51:38 the easter egg is that webkit doesn't really exist :) Oct 21 18:51:40 if you dont mind some noob questions...now that android is open source, is it still limited to Java apps? Oct 21 18:51:41 wait, how do I skip Webkit? Oct 21 18:52:04 noodlesgc: Comment it out in .repo/manifest.xml Oct 21 18:52:04 noodlesgc comment it out in .repo/manifest.xml Oct 21 18:52:11 ttuttle: Lol Oct 21 18:52:48 ttuttle: I think Google is affecting people's brains. Oct 21 18:52:57 xl0: Yeah. Oct 21 18:53:01 and servers Oct 21 18:53:33 Hmm. I'm getting "make: *** No rule to make target `run-java-tool', needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'. Stop." Oct 21 18:53:42 Has anyone here done any work with JNI on android? In particular, has anyone got a decent idea about how to debug misbehaving shared libs? Oct 21 18:54:06 additionally, are there differences in the pthread implementation or anything? Oct 21 18:54:07 funny you should ask vol Oct 21 18:54:15 ha! Oct 21 18:54:23 brb Oct 21 18:54:47 there was a long discussion about JNI a few minutes ago... Oct 21 18:55:02 yeah, I missed it, it seemed to involve a lot of flaming. Oct 21 18:55:08 that would be correct Oct 21 18:55:11 yea, read the scrollback Oct 21 18:55:32 ttuttle: I have a fix for the run-java-tool problem Oct 21 18:55:52 was there anything that involved what I asked, or was it mostly "hurr needs more jit" Oct 21 18:55:53 export ANDROID_JAVA_HOME=$JAVA_HOME Oct 21 18:56:02 should fix the run-java-tool thing Oct 21 18:56:17 work around :_) Oct 21 18:56:21 The "getting sources" page is missing "zip" in the what-to-apt-get section. Oct 21 18:56:22 I put that in to work around problem building on gentoo Oct 21 18:56:38 * strawberrypi wonders why linus would use xml in git. it seems anti-linus somehow. (sorry for the OT) Oct 21 18:56:53 do we need just the general webkit? Oct 21 18:57:19 strawberrypi: the xml is repo, which is a layer over kit, and linus had nothing to do with it, or its use of xml Oct 21 18:57:33 * Disconnect wonders if anyone still uses bitkeeper Oct 21 18:57:35 spearce: ahh.... Oct 21 18:57:42 because I'm scrolling back and it seems like it's mostly wishing for fishes Oct 21 18:57:46 vol-- here was the key statement: " andyross: If you google around you'll see people have already figured out how to produce JNI linking stuff for android. We haven't provided an official kit AFAIK" Oct 21 18:57:48 mattl: its webkit with android specific patches. the bulk of webkit comes from git.webkit.org as people noticed, but the android patches are available on the android.kernel.org location Oct 21 18:58:12 what about svn.webkit.org ? that seems to be up. Oct 21 18:58:38 mattl: does it serve webkit sources over the git:// protocol? Oct 21 18:58:47 waldo_: yeah, we've figured out how to create and run with our own shared libs Oct 21 18:58:56 the issue is that we have a crash somewhere, that seems to be thread related Oct 21 18:59:01 and, uh..... no debugger? Oct 21 18:59:02 vol do you have a link for that? Oct 21 18:59:02 Actually, the real key was: (11:37:33 AM) gdsx: andyross: not yet; we're working on a native code devkit Oct 21 18:59:02 There's a plan for it, but no product yet. Oct 21 18:59:19 a link for what, the non-working code? Oct 21 18:59:30 * strawberrypi has a complete checkout (well minus webkit) and is happy :) Oct 21 18:59:33 well a link for the discussion if there is one Oct 21 18:59:33 spearce: dunno. try it :) Oct 21 18:59:44 ok so random question, with all these external git repos.. is the source tagged to a specific rev of each project? Oct 21 18:59:56 Why does Android claim to be the "first"? Clearly there were other projects working on free software stacks for phones at the same time, many of whom released source code before Android did. Why try to pin that "honor" on Android specifically? Oct 21 19:00:00 you mean on groups? No, I don't think so. Oct 21 19:00:10 RyanPrior: Name one that's commercially implemented Oct 21 19:00:22 specifically one that has dialing working correctly, so don't say freerunner Oct 21 19:00:27 vol: Qtopia. Oct 21 19:00:30 Disconnect: no, repo more follows codelines (branches over the entire set of repositories) than it does a specific version of each repository. Oct 21 19:00:43 vol: The website doesn't say "first commercially implemented" or "first with a number of bugs less than X" Oct 21 19:00:43 .... very well, you win this round. Oct 21 19:00:52 frameworks/base/location/java/com/android/internal/location/LocationMasfClient.java:5: package com.google.common does not exist Oct 21 19:00:52 import com.google.common.Config; Oct 21 19:00:53 spearce: so there is in reality no way to point at sources and say "this is what was released"? Oct 21 19:01:20 Meh. That's just marketing. Certainly it's the first open phone you can get subsidized from a major US carrier. I guess that counts for something. Oct 21 19:01:50 andyross: I wish they would say that, rather than "first free, open source, and fully customizable mobile platform" Oct 21 19:01:50 anyway, waldo, I'm not actually working on android, but a coworker is. He's busy trying to distill this down to a good example codeset. Oct 21 19:02:08 Disconnect: so we have android-1.0 pointing to the initial release. before the next release is tagged repo will be supporting a modified manifest.xml that supports pinning everything to a specific tag. most of the code is there but it hasn't been as tested as well as just following along the active codeline branch. Oct 21 19:02:09 the issue appears to be from one thread respecting a block command, and another ignoring it Oct 21 19:02:13 the first open phone was likely some crazy kid in a dorm room somewhere getting kernel + busybox working on and posting it to his blog a hundred years ago Oct 21 19:02:26 Disconnect: that's not the way the industry rolls, though. Manufacturers like to control their own stacks, and no doubt the G1 has plenty of proprietary code (the GSM stack, at least, and probably the bootloader and a few HTC or TMO "enhancements") that will never be released. Oct 21 19:02:28 Someone ported Linux to the sidekick Oct 21 19:02:44 DannyB: Precisely. With so much prior art out there, why does Google think it has the right to claim "first"? Oct 21 19:02:57 andyross, that's not strickly true. On some phones, the GSM stack is not handled by the OS, but over hardware. Oct 21 19:03:03 s/over/in/g Oct 21 19:03:03 NCommander meant: andyross, that's not strickly true. On some phones, the GSM stack is not handled by the OS, but in hardware. Oct 21 19:03:11 O_o; Oct 21 19:03:20 Thats uh .... a unique bot Oct 21 19:03:41 NCommander: Right. The A780 works like that, with a separate CPU for GSM. Still, though, even though Motorola released a kernel, there was no driver for the device. Oct 21 19:03:58 andyross, on the HTC Wizard, the GSM part was exposed as a modem Oct 21 19:04:04 It even took Hayes commands :-/ Oct 21 19:04:16 lol Oct 21 19:04:18 So it varies from device to device Oct 21 19:04:19 s/lol/wut/g Oct 21 19:04:20 NCommander: The G1 is similar. Oct 21 19:04:20 RyanPrior meant: wut Oct 21 19:04:31 infobot++ Oct 21 19:04:33 Mmm, botabuse. Oct 21 19:04:44 ttuttle, I won't be suprised if the wizard and the G1 used GSM chips from the same company Oct 21 19:04:52 The real point being that I doubt, GPL or no, that there will ever be a buildable "G1 v1.0" snapshot anywhere. Oct 21 19:04:55 * NCommander would have a G1 but is having an ENOMONEY crisis Oct 21 19:05:04 NCommander: Steal money. It's worth it. Oct 21 19:05:12 NCommander: isn't it -ENOMONEY? most errors are <0 Oct 21 19:05:19 I'm a criminal justice student Oct 21 19:05:20 hi Oct 21 19:05:21 andyross: by this do you mean being able to build exactly what is on the phone? Oct 21 19:05:25 Including all apps, etc Oct 21 19:05:26 Those sorta things look bad on ones record Oct 21 19:05:36 Or build the *system* that is on the phone, including all the open sourced apps, etc Oct 21 19:05:37 DannyB, he wants to build the image from scratch Oct 21 19:05:39 More the kernel and boot environment, but yeah. Oct 21 19:05:56 sigh, can't checkout from kernel.org anymore Oct 21 19:05:58 totally dead :) Oct 21 19:05:58 Again, the exact image, including vendor apps, or just one that works Oct 21 19:05:59 :) Oct 21 19:06:03 jasta: Oh? Oct 21 19:06:08 (and includes all the apps we've shipped as open sourced) Oct 21 19:06:09 jasta: I could mirror that. Oct 21 19:06:13 ttuttle: it's been agonizingly slow and now can't even connect Oct 21 19:06:26 Well, the source release got slashdotted Oct 21 19:06:29 I wasn't asking for anything this time. Just pointing out that the requirement for a single "G1" version wasn't likely to be met because of the way the industry works. Oct 21 19:06:35 whoever said kernel.org could handle it: i told you so :) Oct 21 19:06:38 so did it occur to anyone to bt a blank snapshot? :) Oct 21 19:06:40 Slashdot: A roaming DDoS that every server administrator greatly fears Oct 21 19:06:44 andyross: Oh, yes, that's certainly true Oct 21 19:06:46 er, not blank but complete. doh Oct 21 19:06:58 jasta, kernel.org isn't a vast datacenter. mirrors.kernel.org is. Oct 21 19:07:11 NCommander: i know that, whoever said otherwise did not. Oct 21 19:07:22 oh, ah :-) Oct 21 19:07:22 andyross: However, you certainly should be able to (eventually, if not now) build an image of the system that would run on your G1 (if you could get it onto your G1) and have everything we've open sourced Oct 21 19:07:30 and it would function fine as a phone Oct 21 19:07:42 Will there be developer phones with unlocked (i.e., flashable) bootloaders? Oct 21 19:07:44 IE equivalent to what you have in the G1 if you deleted a bunch of apps Oct 21 19:07:45 * NCommander personally would like to see android on a PDA or something Oct 21 19:07:54 * Disconnect misses working at an ISP - we once set a downstream newserver on fire by turning on the torrent that was alt.*. (evidently it had a dusty fan and bad cpu fan.. but it really did catch fire when we turned on the feed, we felt kinda bad) Oct 21 19:08:13 o_o; Oct 21 19:08:15 NCommander: n810 can run it sorta right now, and porting is ongoing Oct 21 19:08:22 I'm a firefighter, that kinda disturbs me Oct 21 19:08:31 Is there a way to perform a verbose build? Oct 21 19:08:40 NCommander: N770 + Android would be good Oct 21 19:08:41 they wandered in to find out why it was so slow (thermal throttling) and then fire came out. Oct 21 19:08:42 xl0: It's not verbose enough? Oct 21 19:08:50 xl0: yeah, there is an env variable somewhere Oct 21 19:08:55 they called us after the fact to tell us about it Oct 21 19:08:56 xl0: if you grep around you can find it Oct 21 19:09:06 and lower their newsgroup count :) Oct 21 19:09:12 Is the JVM architecture specific Oct 21 19:09:14 DannyB: Already grepped a bit, will do more, thanks. Oct 21 19:09:19 Or could I say get it to build for PowerPC or MIPS? Oct 21 19:09:22 xl0: let me see if i can find it Oct 21 19:09:27 or SH4 Oct 21 19:09:45 * NCommander would like to see a Windows CE -> Android chainloader Oct 21 19:09:58 Although getting Linux to run as a Windows CE process might be hellish Oct 21 19:10:09 (although coLinux proves the concept is fessible) Oct 21 19:10:21 how can I specify the source location for the "Android Library" in eclipse? It won't let me when I right click and hit properties Oct 21 19:10:24 so then do it Oct 21 19:11:07 NCommander: not at all, build a qemu instance and virtualize an x86 box on the windows phone. Oct 21 19:11:28 andyross, virtualizing x86 on ARM Oct 21 19:11:29 ... Oct 21 19:11:33 Yeah, THAT will work real well ;-) Oct 21 19:11:33 It was a joke. :) Oct 21 19:11:38 timotimo_: It fails on 64-bit debian, want to see why. Oct 21 19:11:39 One hopes. Oct 21 19:11:41 * NCommander is a debian m68k porter Oct 21 19:11:51 I saw someone run pearpc and BOOT Mac OS X on m68k Oct 21 19:12:09 I think it took a week or so to actually come up to the logon screen Oct 21 19:12:14 LOL Oct 21 19:12:20 s/timotimo_ /ttuttle/ Oct 21 19:12:40 xl0: It works on 64-bit Hardy for me, so it shouldn't be anything fundamental. Oct 21 19:13:10 maybe we should get Android SDK packages into Debian/Ubuntu Oct 21 19:13:13 * NCommander would help to do that Oct 21 19:13:17 jbailey: Fails on not finding the right libstdc++, probably some 32-64 bit issie. Oct 21 19:13:34 xl0, make sure you install ia32-libs-deb Oct 21 19:13:37 *dev Oct 21 19:13:50 er Oct 21 19:13:54 ia32-libs actually should all be you need Oct 21 19:14:52 NCommander: Still no ice. Oct 21 19:15:07 Specific error? Oct 21 19:15:10 /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.3.2/libstdc++.so when searching for -lstdc++ Oct 21 19:15:14 O_o; Oct 21 19:15:16 amd64? Oct 21 19:15:21 Oh Oct 21 19:15:25 try gcc-multilibs Oct 21 19:15:29 er Oct 21 19:15:38 multilib Oct 21 19:15:40 That should do it Oct 21 19:15:52 THat installs the x86 backend to GCC, which is needed in some rare cases Oct 21 19:15:56 frameworks/base/location/java/com/android/internal/location/LocationMasfClient.java:5: package com.google.common does not exist Oct 21 19:16:06 Out of curiosity, what's the component that won't build on x86_64? Oct 21 19:16:16 * NCommander can port it to x86_64 Oct 21 19:16:20 I know amd64 ASM :-) Oct 21 19:16:26 NCommander: I think it's already installed. Let me try. Oct 21 19:17:06 Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 10,453,659 Oct 21 19:17:13 withou webkit Oct 21 19:17:16 cool :D Oct 21 19:17:27 does that include the kernel? Oct 21 19:17:29 NCommander: Yes, it was installed. Oct 21 19:17:41 damn it Oct 21 19:17:58 It sounds like the android SDK is i386 based, right? Oct 21 19:18:02 hey i check-out all except webkit and the kernel, how can I just get those now? Oct 21 19:18:12 That's probably Debian's fault, not providing 32-bit version of libstdc++. Oct 21 19:18:38 spearce: yes Oct 21 19:18:48 x10: g++-multilib Oct 21 19:18:51 er, xl0 g++-multilib Oct 21 19:18:53 I'm an idiot Oct 21 19:19:01 I thought gcc-multilib would pull in g++-multilib Oct 21 19:19:31 (that should pull in g++-4.3-multilib) Oct 21 19:19:38 ubuntu packages +1 Oct 21 19:19:49 although it probably makes sense to wait until it calms down a bit Oct 21 19:19:49 damned fedex. Oct 21 19:19:49 xl0, that should work on both Debian and Ubuntu Oct 21 19:20:13 heard a truck pull up, thought "huh, wonder if thats my g1 or just another school bus" .. doorbell. went up, its fedex and he goes "oops, i'm sorry, i'm at the wrong house" Oct 21 19:20:37 ha Oct 21 19:20:40 NCommander: For some reason it wasn't! Oct 21 19:20:46 i think he's just taunting me. (ups has the phone) Oct 21 19:20:56 xl0, I'm running intrepid, so I'm a little dated Oct 21 19:21:41 I the promo video, that guy says there's a speech recognition engine. What's used for that? Oct 21 19:21:44 In* Oct 21 19:21:50 Why isn't the website organized as a wiki?! Oct 21 19:22:03 topeira: the voice dialer Oct 21 19:22:29 topeira: dial by voice. (aka my sworn enemy that keeps causing my phones and headsets to call random addressbook entries) Oct 21 19:22:37 marcone: I meant, the software used for voice recognition Oct 21 19:22:40 hey anyone know if that can be turned off? Oct 21 19:22:40 Android getting up on digg.com again :-) Oct 21 19:22:48 Disconnect: you could've had it this morning if you had decided to pick it up. Oct 21 19:22:59 xl0, any luck? Oct 21 19:23:01 topeira: it's the Nuance engine Oct 21 19:23:09 damn...I want one too Oct 21 19:23:16 NCommander: It worked, but now fails with incompatible libz. Oct 21 19:23:21 so, that part is not opensource, right? Oct 21 19:23:29 unix_lappy: it got into "local" depot at 1;30, went straight on a truck and out (didn't update until it was out) and i can't drive anyway w/ my knee still jacked up. would have had to make the wif take a day from work to run me over - not gonna go over well :) Oct 21 19:23:46 xl0, you can manually compile that, although libz should be in ia32-libs :-/ Oct 21 19:24:03 topeira: yes it is. Oct 21 19:24:10 Disconnect, if you already have health problems, being run over doesn't sound like it would help, indeed Oct 21 19:24:15 marcone: great! Oct 21 19:24:19 heh Oct 21 19:24:24 (1:30am that is btw) Oct 21 19:24:37 of course it is, the other one is 13:30 Oct 21 19:24:38 xl0, lib32z1 Oct 21 19:24:39 Try that Oct 21 19:24:47 * NCommander loves play install the package Oct 21 19:25:12 NCommander: Thanks, that's it. Oct 21 19:25:23 oooh fun. repo is crashing in new not-known-issues ways now. Oct 21 19:25:24 \o/ Oct 21 19:25:27 no errors, just a backtrace Oct 21 19:25:35 Err, wait. It was already at the latest version. Oct 21 19:25:39 xl0, that probably should be noted somewhere. (its buried on the Ubuntu wiki specially) Oct 21 19:25:41 xl0, ? Oct 21 19:25:51 Finally a Debian bug it seems. Oct 21 19:26:04 xl0, what was the backtrace message? Oct 21 19:27:03 Disconnect: makes me wonder what kind of luck I can expect tomorrow at the T-Mobile store. Oct 21 19:27:32 unix_lappy: depends on how asshole the manager is and if he's taken bribes to hold them all for people Oct 21 19:27:40 If i know java will i be able to play around with the sdk and build small apps for fun? Oct 21 19:27:50 oh AWESOME http://www.breakitdownblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/andy-rubin-giant-foam-android-lawn-statue.jpg lol Oct 21 19:27:50 marcone: could you point me to the tts engine in the source code? Oct 21 19:28:06 I think it's under external/srec Oct 21 19:28:23 umdk1d3: it's not really foam. it's make from the remains of prototype devices recycled Oct 21 19:28:29 also Oct 21 19:28:33 Disconnect: Is this when we should introduce the bug tracker? =) Oct 21 19:28:36 umdk1d3: yah welcome to last night :) Oct 21 19:28:38 it weights 8 billion pounds Oct 21 19:28:42 and eats people Oct 21 19:28:46 Disconnect: sry lol :P Oct 21 19:28:50 :) Oct 21 19:28:59 NCommander: Sec, I think I broke my internetz. Oct 21 19:29:04 marcone: thanks Oct 21 19:29:14 jbailey: prolly a repo bug. "repo sync " blows up. "repo sync" (no project) just hates webkit. Oct 21 19:29:33 umdk1d3: D'oh, the balloons aren't floating anymore! Oct 21 19:29:59 most things hate webkit Oct 21 19:30:04 NCommander: http://zaytsev.su/message.txt Oct 21 19:30:31 xl0: ypou aren't linking with -m32 Oct 21 19:30:49 so it searches the wrong paths Oct 21 19:31:15 xl0, try compiling with the -m32 flag, to force it to build to 32-bit Oct 21 19:31:29 DannyB: That's why I wanted a verbose build! ;) Oct 21 19:32:23 xl0: make showcommands Oct 21 19:32:41 NCommander: lib32z1-dev is what was missing. I got lib32z1 installed, but not -dev. ;) Oct 21 19:32:44 enf: Thanks. Oct 21 19:33:03 xl0, ah, I wasn't quite sure what you were doing. Glad I could help Oct 21 19:33:47 NCommander: Well, now it fails again of course. ;) Oct 21 19:34:14 But this time a c++ error. I think I need to use an older gcc here. Oct 21 19:34:51 Hi, may I ask in which project I can find the source of the Maps app? Oct 21 19:35:02 i don't believe maps was open sourced Oct 21 19:35:10 :-( Oct 21 19:35:15 thanks Oct 21 19:35:29 there are sadly annoying reasns we couldn't, iirc Oct 21 19:35:50 are there other community tutorials other than the ones in the sdk docs? Oct 21 19:36:00 i do believe the mapview code is open sourced though Oct 21 19:36:02 i could be wrong Oct 21 19:36:07 I'd like to start routing from my app Oct 21 19:36:17 from point A to point B Oct 21 19:36:24 xl0, you just can't win ;-) Oct 21 19:36:30 those don't look like balloons. I thought the android was taking a crap Oct 21 19:36:35 xl0: give me the error, i'll tell you whaqt's up Oct 21 19:36:41 (I'm a gcc hacker :P) Oct 21 19:36:54 DannyB: I'll give you a patch in a few seconds. Oct 21 19:37:02 I, for one, have done the right thing and stopped trying to download webkit ;) Oct 21 19:37:13 out of morbid curiosity Oct 21 19:37:15 *snicker* Oct 21 19:37:18 has anyone gone to #webkit and chatted with them? Oct 21 19:37:19 is there any way to use the webkit mirror on git.android.org instead of git.webkit.org (which is dead)? Oct 21 19:37:20 about this? Oct 21 19:37:28 * davidw will try again tomorrow Oct 21 19:37:29 You just say that so the others will stop and you'll get some bandwidth, yakischloba. Oct 21 19:37:31 on android.kernel.org... Oct 21 19:37:31 yakischloba, how did you do that? Oct 21 19:37:50 aissen, CTRL + C Oct 21 19:37:54 TreyB :) Oct 21 19:38:01 that’s cheating Oct 21 19:38:06 you can comment webkit out in repo/manifest.xml and run repo sync again Oct 21 19:38:09 ralpht: is webkit mirrored on android.kernel.org? I believe the goal was to avoid hosting source from other projects Oct 21 19:38:11 hmm, manifest just got kicked Oct 21 19:38:27 webkit still fails though... :( Oct 21 19:38:32 http://android.kernel.org/?p=platform/external/webkit.git;a=summary Oct 21 19:38:36 seems to be mirrored Oct 21 19:38:43 * aissen is editing manifest.xml Oct 21 19:39:04 i was unable to get repo to check out from the mirror, not sure what i need in manifest.xml. Oct 21 19:39:34 ralpht: just comment out the WebKit section Oct 21 19:39:44 probably just need to change the url to point to that, and set the appropriate commit hash Oct 21 19:40:39 Anybody here know what the London Mobile software engineer team work on? Oct 21 19:40:41 if i could get webkit, i could put up a mirror Oct 21 19:40:44 so i did comment out the webkit section, but then i didn't get anything (except for .repo) in my working directory. Oct 21 19:41:44 and a warning from repo: "warn: [manifests] commit (or discard) uncommitted changes before sync". not sure if they're related Oct 21 19:41:52 what is egit for? Oct 21 19:42:02 aww shoot, i pointed at the android.kernel.org webkit mirror and get a corrupt pull Oct 21 19:42:23 DannyB: Should I just do repo upload after I commited the changes locally? Oct 21 19:42:27 whats with the mirrors being corrupt ? Oct 21 19:42:33 yeah, the remote mirror is totally clobbered Oct 21 19:42:40 webkit is hosed Oct 21 19:42:43 well, scratch that idea Oct 21 19:45:21 I know someone in here got the full deal Oct 21 19:45:27 lets start passing it around for fucks sake ;) Oct 21 19:45:38 watching the source video.. speech recog and "a bunch of av codecs" are listed as open :) (although I don't think 3 is "a bunch" :/ ..) Oct 21 19:45:43 lines of code breakdown (minus WebKit): http://android.pastebin.com/m4f859cd4 Oct 21 19:45:50 yakischloba: i agree Oct 21 19:46:14 the Shazam app... awesome Oct 21 19:46:30 someone put up a .torrent Oct 21 19:46:37 geist: do you get anything in cwd after repo sync with webkit commented out? Oct 21 19:47:26 languish: you think you'd use that app very much? I always thought those apps were really cool technology, just not sure when I would use it Oct 21 19:47:48 please someone post a .torrent, so we can get mirrors going Oct 21 19:48:04 I have a lot of bandwidth at my disposal, I'd be happy to pitch in. unfortunately it's useless if I can't get it from anyone. Oct 21 19:48:17 same here Oct 21 19:48:27 i've got lots of bandwidth on my git setup Oct 21 19:49:14 * Disconnect can certainly contribute from the upper end of medium-business-level bandwidth Oct 21 19:49:16 zhobbs: i have serious doubts there is MUMPS code in there Oct 21 19:49:18 but no webkit here either Oct 21 19:49:21 ;) Oct 21 19:50:27 zhobbs, yes, I'm not a big music person, but I'm always wondering what such and such a song is randomly Oct 21 19:50:41 so I would totally use it Oct 21 19:50:54 that's cool Oct 21 19:51:12 and the fact it identified a REMIX of golfrapps strict machine, after only hearing the percussion intro... I'm sold Oct 21 19:51:42 There's a guy who ported Android to HTC Touch before the source code was release. Things will be easier now... :D Oct 21 19:51:51 languish: yeah, it's pretty amazing that it can id songs so quickly Oct 21 19:52:16 topeira: not having a hardware keyboard will be extremely tough Oct 21 19:52:21 i'd like to see it get tagging capabilities Oct 21 19:52:30 any fix to the WebKit git timeout yet? Oct 21 19:52:34 then be able to sample my on-phone music Oct 21 19:52:39 and properly tag them Oct 21 19:52:50 michaelnovakjr_: you might be interested in the article from eWeek about Android today :) Oct 21 19:53:05 i'm going to check it out romainguy_ Oct 21 19:53:10 ralpht: dunno, but i dont think you do anyway Oct 21 19:53:14 romainguy_ good? Oct 21 19:53:22 i think with the repo thing you have to pull down a project and hack on it, or something Oct 21 19:53:22 I successfully built the android os without webkit, and it made the three .img files to use in the emulator, however they wont boot to the desktop? (adb shell works tho) Oct 21 19:53:44 steventroughtons, that was quick :) Oct 21 19:53:45 I think I'm having problems sending the patch... Oct 21 19:53:50 steventroughtons: check adb lolcat Oct 21 19:53:58 aissen: it didnt take long to compile Oct 21 19:54:04 only whatever time i've been absent :P Oct 21 19:54:13 what station do you have? Oct 21 19:54:13 an hour or so Oct 21 19:54:13 The system says I'm not authosized, while in fact I should be now. Oct 21 19:54:18 macbook air, 1.6 Oct 21 19:54:28 ok Oct 21 19:54:36 And of course http://review.source.android.com/hello 404s. Oct 21 19:55:19 Where can I get the com.google.common java libs? Oct 21 19:55:32 romainguy_: there is no lolcat? :P Oct 21 19:55:33 xl0: what is your login name Oct 21 19:55:39 yo may in fact, not be authorized Oct 21 19:55:40 :) Oct 21 19:55:45 steventroughtons: adb lolcat works though Oct 21 19:55:57 DannyB: alexey.zaytsev@gmail.com Oct 21 19:56:00 * fish__ is wonderingn when Android will hit Europe Oct 21 19:56:01 oh so it does Oct 21 19:56:17 I/dalvikvm( 54): Unable to dlopen(/system/lib/libwebcore.so): Cannot find library Oct 21 19:56:17 W/dalvikvm( 54): Exception Ljava/lang/UnsatisfiedLinkError; thrown during Landroid/webkit/WebViewCore;. Oct 21 19:56:17 E/Zygote ( 54): Class not found for preloading: android.webkit.WebViewCore Oct 21 19:56:18 hehehe Oct 21 19:56:25 Just create an android contributor's account. Oct 21 19:56:28 *created Oct 21 19:56:29 I'll have to compile in webkit when its back up Oct 21 19:56:34 steventroughtons: :) Oct 21 19:56:45 Anybody here know what the London Mobile software engineer team work on? Oct 21 19:56:47 am getting a million GC printouts Oct 21 19:56:55 bleh. I give up. I'll try to download it again in a week or whenever someone tells me it is accessible again Oct 21 19:57:01 stevecrozz, it’s a shame, can’t you skip webcore loading? Oct 21 19:57:18 steventroughtons: you might be able to by removing the webkit classes from base/preloaded-classes. Oct 21 19:57:28 fatal: read error (Connection reset by peer) Oct 21 19:57:28 error: Cannot fetch platform/external/webkit Oct 21 19:57:31 anyone got that? Oct 21 19:57:39 stevecrozz: everyone :) Oct 21 19:57:44 yeah it keeps looping at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AndroidRuntime START <<<<<<<<<<<<<< until it hits webkit Oct 21 19:57:56 we should put in the topic... we killed webkit Oct 21 19:58:00 ok is there nobody here who can change the topic? Oct 21 19:58:04 mattl: thanks, i didn't see it on the "known issues" Oct 21 19:58:19 stevecrozz: it's just slashdotted. Oct 21 19:58:20 why do you need to provide your real name to send in patches? Oct 21 19:58:24 known issues @ the front (not back) and dead webkit and "no you can't build an image for your g1" all need to be there.. Oct 21 19:58:29 is there a way to run the UI without webkit? Oct 21 19:58:30 :D Oct 21 19:58:45 aissen: i'm treating it as "a name" not "real name" (just a unique identifier) Oct 21 19:58:45 oh i know! I can pull in the webkit from the sdk! Oct 21 19:58:47 yay for hacks Oct 21 19:59:22 Disconnect, alright, i thought it was a legal problem with copyrights/etc. Oct 21 19:59:41 steventroughtons, good luck with that :) Oct 21 19:59:52 should be easy :) Oct 21 19:59:58 i just need libwebcore.so Oct 21 19:59:59 15:16 -!- lh [n=lhawthor@nat/google/x-305f053f6930689e] has quit ["running around"] Oct 21 20:00:08 depends on the locality i suspect, but at least in the US 'disconnect' is in fact a legal alias (used in official capacity, more than X years, etc etc.. and yes, most people IRL call me 'dis') Oct 21 20:00:43 I know I dumped the sdk's filesystem somewhere… Oct 21 20:00:46 now to find it! Oct 21 20:00:57 Disconnect: your name appears in every router firmware i've used. Oct 21 20:01:07 yah i've done a lot of embedded work Oct 21 20:01:19 haha Oct 21 20:01:38 * Disconnect will bbl. it may not be g1 time but at least its beer oclock. Oct 21 20:01:53 gdsx: I don't suppose you're a guru on the java part of the build process? Oct 21 20:03:27 So i guess, there’s no htc stack (libhtc-ril.so ?), a few apps missing, but what else is missing to build a g1 image? are the images signed? Oct 21 20:05:05 #lazy how do I pull a file using adb? Oct 21 20:05:10 (if we don’t want 3g/2g connectivity, and skip using the baseband) Oct 21 20:05:19 adb pull file Oct 21 20:05:24 easy, cheers Oct 21 20:06:22 hello all, I have a textview which is a child of a scrollview. How can make the scrollview or textview scroll down? obj.scrollTo throws an exception and kills my app Oct 21 20:06:52 g1 don't have a soft keyboard, right? Oct 21 20:06:57 aissen: yah they're signed Oct 21 20:07:01 bricode: nope, though ask away Oct 21 20:07:04 an_dev1: no, no touchscreen input except for phone dialing Oct 21 20:07:25 actually, textview.scrollTo doesnt work at all Oct 21 20:07:25 * Disconnect pokes jasonchen and jbailey and SanMehat and hopes someone will update the topic :) Oct 21 20:07:27 ARGH Oct 21 20:07:28 failed to copy '/libwebcore.so' to '/system/lib/libwebcore.so': Read-only file system Oct 21 20:07:35 can you mount -uw / ? Oct 21 20:07:40 steventroughtons: try adb remount Oct 21 20:07:46 gdsx: frameworks/base/location/java/com/android/internal/location/LocationMasfClient.java:5: package com.google.common does not exist Oct 21 20:07:52 woo, checking out files (except webkit). i had to fast forward to the latest manifest.xml, comment out webkit again, and now repo sync is actually checking stuff out into cwd. Oct 21 20:08:00 Disconnect: is there a standards touchscreen keyboard in the APIs? Oct 21 20:08:00 excellent! i have webcore on it now Oct 21 20:08:03 lets see if it boots Oct 21 20:08:10 IT BOOTED :D Oct 21 20:08:11 bricode: hmm... dunno Oct 21 20:08:12 gdsx: It errors on the import. Oct 21 20:08:12 JoeBrain, check the roadmap Oct 21 20:08:21 t-mob says i should be @ the store before 8am if i want to get a phone Oct 21 20:08:21 nope Oct 21 20:08:24 JoeBrain, looks like it’s planned in 2009 Oct 21 20:08:27 ah Oct 21 20:08:29 thx Oct 21 20:08:45 romainguy_: thanks, i'm watching the pulsating loading logo now Oct 21 20:08:46 ... they open at 8 Oct 21 20:08:49 wastrel, good luck for that Oct 21 20:08:51 lets hope it gets there Oct 21 20:08:54 thx :] Oct 21 20:09:20 Disconnect: what were you hoping to have in the subject? Oct 21 20:09:26 and were up! Oct 21 20:09:48 steventroughtons, congrats Oct 21 20:10:06 lol there's a snake game included :P Oct 21 20:10:31 wastrel: did he say when they expect to get stock refreshed? Oct 21 20:10:48 didn't ask Oct 21 20:11:42 the chat app doesnt show it's main menu. ergh Oct 21 20:12:08 steventroughtons, try rotating the screen with [7] on the keypad ? Oct 21 20:12:11 Will there be a translation service for Android? Like the translation service at launchpad.net for Ubuntu? Oct 21 20:12:26 So everyone can help translating Oct 21 20:13:14 @aissen I dont have a keypad =o) Oct 21 20:13:27 steventroughtons: what kind of phone are you using? Oct 21 20:13:36 i'm running on the emulator Oct 21 20:13:37 steventroughtons, no [Fn] on Macbook air? Oct 21 20:13:41 aha Oct 21 20:13:53 aissen yes, there's Fn, but numkeys have been removed since 07 Oct 21 20:13:55 :/ Oct 21 20:13:56 Hey - is Alexey here? Oct 21 20:14:22 * xl0 . Oct 21 20:14:31 that's xl0 Oct 21 20:14:46 xl0: Congrats on the first uploaded patch. =) Oct 21 20:14:53 Thanks. ;) Oct 21 20:15:05 There's was a moment of "Hey! Hot damn!" here. =) Oct 21 20:15:27 xl0: can you torrent webkit? Oct 21 20:16:12 @everyone, you can steal libwebcore.so from the SDK and compile the rest of android without webkit Oct 21 20:16:21 http://twitpic.com/hghr Oct 21 20:16:25 :D Oct 21 20:16:35 michaelnovakjr_: Just comment the apple git from the manifest.xml Oct 21 20:17:02 xl0, i am trying to mirror for download since webkit is down Oct 21 20:17:20 anyone bugging the people on the webkit irc? Oct 21 20:17:32 someone should go smack hyatt for effect Oct 21 20:17:45 michaelnovakjr_: you don't need it to build te android. The andpoid remote is still there, only the origin is gone. Oct 21 20:18:05 i understand that, i am trying to provide a FULL mirror Oct 21 20:18:08 did you build it? Oct 21 20:18:14 steventroughtons, did you try rotating with F11/F12? Oct 21 20:18:22 aissen: no! I shall try now Oct 21 20:18:55 michaelnovakjr_: It builds just fine, as the andpoid remote is the one with the patchesd webkit, and the origin is provided only for reference and to ease rebasing. Oct 21 20:19:16 so xl0, you have the webkit that was hanging? Oct 21 20:19:25 @aissen f11 and f12 do nothing here Oct 21 20:19:50 aissen: I'll reboot the emulator in landscape mode, to test IM Oct 21 20:19:52 michaelnovakjr_: just remove the apple remote from the manifest, it was the one that was preventing repo ti fetch it. Oct 21 20:20:10 i know, i asked if you did that, or if you successfully pulled it? Oct 21 20:20:28 does anyone know how to autoscroll a view? Oct 21 20:20:32 or to force a scroll? Oct 21 20:20:39 michaelnovakjr_: Yes, with only the androin remote, it worked fine. Oct 21 20:20:48 Gamara: fala Oct 21 20:20:51 hi Oct 21 20:20:59 anyone know how to add a toggle button to a menu in XML? Oct 21 20:21:05 xl0: so you didn't get the webkit pulled? Oct 21 20:21:38 rob---: use scrollTo/scrollBy if it's a ScrollView or a TextView with scrolling enabled Oct 21 20:21:57 i have tried textview.scrollTo, but it doesnt do anything Oct 21 20:22:02 michaelnovakjr_: The repository that is used by android is hosted by google, and it was always there. The original repo hosted by apple is missing, but you don't need it. Oct 21 20:22:08 and doing that with a scrollview throws an exception Oct 21 20:22:09 rob---: also ScrollView.requestRectangleOnScreen() Oct 21 20:22:14 rob---: what is the exception? Oct 21 20:22:26 null pointer Oct 21 20:22:27 yay phone is here Oct 21 20:22:31 xl0: I know that!! i am not stupid, i am asking you what you pulled down! Oct 21 20:22:49 custom built android pic = http://twitpic.com/hgjb Oct 21 20:22:50 =) Oct 21 20:22:58 this is exciting! Oct 21 20:22:59 haha Oct 21 20:23:02 trying to do repo sync but get... Oct 21 20:23:02 fatal: read error (Connection reset by peer) Oct 21 20:23:02 error: Cannot fetch platform/external/webkit Oct 21 20:23:07 rob---: can you show the full stack trace? Oct 21 20:23:11 wolfmanjm: read the known issues Oct 21 20:23:13 yeah, sec Oct 21 20:23:15 webkit is down Oct 21 20:23:28 Woot! Oct 21 20:23:37 I just did, nothing on there about it yet, but thanks Oct 21 20:23:40 jbailey: stick something in the topic about webkit, plz Oct 21 20:24:05 steventroughtons, nice :) now where is you name in there ? =P Oct 21 20:24:15 'where' ? or why? ;) Oct 21 20:24:26 its in the build number Oct 21 20:24:27 lol Oct 21 20:24:46 michaelnovakjr_: Wait, I think that's me stupid. I actually commented webkit out alltogether. ;) Oct 21 20:24:47 damn i wish I had a blank device I could just write the FS image onto :D Oct 21 20:25:03 woot! first patch submitted Oct 21 20:25:16 romainguy_ : http://paste2.org/p/90248 Oct 21 20:25:48 xl0: :) that is what i was getting at.... if you had the webkit pulled or not Oct 21 20:25:51 the maps app isn't included in the source, (rightly), but can I pull an entire apk install from one system and push it onto another? Oct 21 20:25:54 rob---: that's not the stack trace of the exception :) Oct 21 20:26:02 mattl: Should be in "known issues" shortly. Oct 21 20:26:12 http://android.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/master Oct 21 20:26:22 after the error in logcat, it says wrote stack to /data/anr/traces.txt Oct 21 20:26:42 who submitted first patch? Oct 21 20:26:53 anyone working on an Openmoko/Neo Freerunner port yet? Oct 21 20:26:55 rob---: I'm interested in the error, not the anr Oct 21 20:26:59 steventroughtons, i’m not sure how would that work with the need for signing apps | btw, i missed your name the first time :) Oct 21 20:27:03 aha, DOH! didn't realize that remount only made the fs writable for the one session :P Oct 21 20:27:04 VickiWong, it’s xl0 Oct 21 20:27:18 nice Oct 21 20:27:27 I gotta say, the IM app refuses to run properly Oct 21 20:27:56 xl0: you get this? http://www.imagebam.com/image/8e09f316371035 Oct 21 20:28:40 romainguy_: http://paste2.org/p/90252 Oct 21 20:28:54 steventroughtons: I don't get anything, I've not jet built it all, and I've got no emulator running anyway. Oct 21 20:28:57 rob---: this has nothing to do with scrollTo Oct 21 20:29:04 rob---: you are calling a method on a null object Oct 21 20:29:09 like 32 in your file myapp.java Oct 21 20:29:11 xl0: oh, my mistake! Oct 21 20:29:25 line 32 = sv.scrollTo(tv.getHeight(), tv.getWidth()); Oct 21 20:29:26 the phone is much smaller/lighter than i was expecting Oct 21 20:29:31 sv isnt null Oct 21 20:29:35 rob---: then tv is null Oct 21 20:29:39 :) Oct 21 20:29:43 cant be, i can append text to it Oct 21 20:29:51 rob---: well that's what the exception says Oct 21 20:30:35 Hey - I get a hang at 'repo init -u git://android.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git' Oct 21 20:31:51 wolfmanjm: I'm working on one. Oct 21 20:31:59 Disconnect, yeah? Oct 21 20:32:15 platform/frameworks/base.git Oct 21 20:32:19 whoops. Oct 21 20:32:52 "repo init" worked OK 2 minutes before Oct 21 20:32:53 bricode: cool I just started on one, do you have a branch setup yet? Oct 21 20:32:58 yah i thought the iphone was bricklike when i had it (1st gen) and since its supposed to be about that same size.. it feels smaller. Oct 21 20:33:15 Thinking maybe it was a firewall issue... Any ideas? Oct 21 20:33:17 wolfmanjm: working on it. Trying to get a clean compile. Oct 21 20:33:19 (not objecting to bricks - old phone is e90, made of 90% lead :) ..) but Oct 21 20:33:26 wolfmanjm: I already have a patched kernel. Oct 21 20:34:01 igravious: true, it uses git:// protocol to download the source Oct 21 20:34:17 ok that usb connector could not have been in a worse place for typing :( Oct 21 20:34:50 spearce: not port 80 or something nice? can I configure git to use http? Oct 21 20:34:55 Disconnect It could have come out of the screen. Oct 21 20:34:57 just sayin. Oct 21 20:35:04 that would still have been better for typing Oct 21 20:35:07 just harder for reading Oct 21 20:35:11 spearce: or is that moronic. I've only ever really use svn. Oct 21 20:35:25 igravious: git is *much* more efficient over its git:// protocol than over http Oct 21 20:35:39 anyone know why webkit download is failing? Oct 21 20:35:50 massiveRobot, it’s a know issue Oct 21 20:35:52 I'm sync'ing and I hit a roadblock at: error: Cannot fetch platform/external/webkit Oct 21 20:35:55 massiveRobot: we killed it Oct 21 20:35:58 bricode: excellent can you post to this thread? I think there are many who are interested in helping... http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-October/034069.html Oct 21 20:36:06 Too many people pounding their server? Oct 21 20:36:12 ah :) Oct 21 20:36:18 spearce: http is infinitely more efficient than 0 bytes per second and we got big pipes here Oct 21 20:36:30 looks like Apple is trying to sabotage Android ;o) Oct 21 20:36:46 "latency" heh Oct 21 20:36:56 more like lack of network connection period Oct 21 20:36:57 this is great, however, we are looking to use android for a prototype SetTopBox Oct 21 20:37:05 I'm eager to get this up and start playing with it. Oct 21 20:38:02 chill Oct 21 20:39:15 Hmm. Repo fails at sync after upload. Oct 21 20:39:48 And at status too. Not sure if it's related to the upload. Oct 21 20:39:53 wolfmanjm: Will gladly follow up on the thread. Oct 21 20:40:10 xl0: backtrace/error messages in a pastebin? Oct 21 20:41:42 jbailey: repo upload says Unauthorized user. Visit http://review.source.android.com/hello to sign up... but I did that already. Is there anything else I have to do to submit a change? Oct 21 20:42:45 bricode: thanks, contact me if you need help, I'm still trying to sync, but I'll work on the Java side if needed Oct 21 20:43:34 ralpht: one sec Oct 21 20:43:37 let me test something Oct 21 20:44:10 ralpht: try now Oct 21 20:44:27 DannyB: awesome! it went through. Oct 21 20:44:32 okay Oct 21 20:44:32 so Oct 21 20:44:37 DannyB: Unaccepted CLA? Oct 21 20:44:39 change 581 Oct 21 20:44:40 yes Oct 21 20:44:45 joeo is disabling that Oct 21 20:44:58 we don't need to *verify the info* on non-corporate CLA's Oct 21 20:45:02 only verify that they have actually accepted it Oct 21 20:45:03 spearce: Seems like I've got a broken proxy, it fails at HTTP POST, or whatever pastebin uses. Oct 21 20:45:09 Would anyone be interested if i put up a blog post explaining how to build without webkit? Oct 21 20:45:10 spearce: Here it is: http://zaytsev.su/repo-errors.txt Oct 21 20:45:12 IE that they clicked the right button Oct 21 20:45:21 so there is no need for the extra verify step right now Oct 21 20:45:24 xl0: thanks, i'm looking at it Oct 21 20:45:26 for individual CLA's Oct 21 20:45:39 we can see a pattern here Oct 21 20:45:58 aidl developers inserted bugs in their source to encourage contributions Oct 21 20:46:02 lol Oct 21 20:46:17 and still, ones that are simple to solve :) Oct 21 20:46:20 :) Oct 21 20:48:06 xl0: what version of git are you running? Oct 21 20:48:23 spearce: 1.5.6.5 Oct 21 20:49:11 For anyone still having problems: http://steventroughtonsmith.blogspot.com/2008/10/android-10-source-release-notes.html Oct 21 20:53:47 steventroughtons: Thanks for that its downloading again :) Oct 21 20:53:58 steventroughtons: So you compiled the whole thingy. Could you up an emulator image we can use, when webkit is available Oct 21 20:53:59 ? Oct 21 20:54:13 emulator image? yeah, sure, uhh, let me see how big it is Oct 21 20:54:52 27mb, anyone got hosting? Oct 21 20:55:03 yea Oct 21 20:55:04 me Oct 21 20:55:05 dreamhost? :P Oct 21 20:55:22 steventroughtons: you have scp? Oct 21 20:55:22 where would i host it so you can all have it? Oct 21 20:55:27 so is there a mirror to get the source? Oct 21 20:55:29 scp always Oct 21 20:55:31 I've got hosting. Oct 21 20:55:45 jasta, no Oct 21 20:55:47 i still cant pull the thing down Oct 21 20:55:50 not with webkit Oct 21 20:56:00 how can i just exclude webkit? Oct 21 20:56:01 you can skip it Oct 21 20:56:05 Hmm. Are the SDK sources also available? Oct 21 20:56:08 http://steventroughtonsmith.blogspot.com/2008/10/android-10-source-release-notes.html Oct 21 20:56:14 jasta ^^ Oct 21 20:56:34 ttuttle: Gtalk much? Oct 21 20:56:35 lol Oct 21 20:56:41 i was already editing manifest.xml :) Oct 21 20:56:44 i had just guessed Oct 21 20:56:49 :) Oct 21 20:57:28 steventroughtons: to comment :) Oct 21 20:57:37 did anybody get an apicheck error on LIGHT_NO_MOON? Oct 21 20:57:50 steventroughtons: as a fellow irishman, can you tell me how to proxy git:// i can't figure it :( Oct 21 20:57:53 ok hold everyone i'm upping a zip of the system.img and libwebcore.so Oct 21 20:58:00 I *think* thats all you'll need for the emu Oct 21 20:58:44 isn't the libwebcore.so going to be OS specific? Oct 21 20:59:08 mattl: yes, built for the ARM processor that the emulator runs. Oct 21 20:59:20 igravious: you working on commandline? bash? 'export http_proxy=10.0.1.2:8080' ? Oct 21 20:59:32 he had the mozilla guys come down to your uni yesterday, they presented their new mobile browser, what really appealed to me as the ability to have everything in syn with my browser at home. anyhow, i wanted to know if it will be possible to actually run it on android. i presume you can't since developers only have access to the java layer Oct 21 20:59:33 5 mins remaining uploading here Oct 21 20:59:35 jasta: okay, awesome. Oct 21 21:00:09 mohbana: you already said that several times Oct 21 21:00:15 haha Oct 21 21:00:46 lol Oct 21 21:00:51 i thought i'd the perfect time to ask since most people are want help tp build the code Oct 21 21:00:54 hi cbeust Oct 21 21:00:59 are going to want Oct 21 21:01:04 someone i know from twitter, crazy world! Oct 21 21:01:07 :P Oct 21 21:01:44 romainguy: you don't know the answer even tho you work for google? Oct 21 21:01:48 steventroughtons: thanks, i'll try that. yep, using ubuntu hardy, i'm at work... i'd be afraid to compile 2 gig of sources on my laptop at home :) Oct 21 21:02:08 igravious: sure, I use the http proxy method at uni, only found it out recently Oct 21 21:02:30 works for anything commandline i think Oct 21 21:02:36 mohbana: I'm sure you can't run it on android, or else we'd hear about it more Oct 21 21:02:47 if you port it to android, you can run it on android Oct 21 21:03:13 hi Oct 21 21:03:17 haha, it and the rest of GTK or whatever they use for it =) Oct 21 21:03:23 right Oct 21 21:03:28 i mean, it's like asking if you can run it on the iphone Oct 21 21:03:35 theoretically possible, requires a ton of porting Oct 21 21:03:56 I can't find the libc in the repository.. is it already there? Oct 21 21:04:16 and of course on both platforms not acceptable, (non java code, c libraries, etc?) Oct 21 21:04:16 what happens if my network connections fails on the huge checkout of the repo? Oct 21 21:04:31 mohbana: you can run "repo sync" again Oct 21 21:04:36 and it may recover Oct 21 21:04:44 30 seconds until system.img is live Oct 21 21:05:01 cool, where? Oct 21 21:05:06 1 sec Oct 21 21:05:18 uri? Oct 21 21:05:19 will it resume from where it left of or will it clone it from stratch Oct 21 21:05:32 http://mobilestack.googlecode.com/svn/android-1.0-system-img+webcore.zip There, But you NEED to read http://steventroughtonsmith.blogspot.com/2008/10/android-10-source-release-notes.html Oct 21 21:05:38 its a compile without webcore Oct 21 21:05:44 so you need to push in webcore before it will boot Oct 21 21:05:56 (couldn't be bothered fixing it until the webkit tree is back up) Oct 21 21:05:58 mohbana: it should only grab entries that aren't synced I think Oct 21 21:06:47 please tell me if the system.img doesn't work for you, as it's running here Oct 21 21:09:40 i cant believe tomorrow is the day we can all get our phones :) Oct 21 21:09:51 *grin* Oct 21 21:09:56 what was the ip to refer the localhost on the host machine? Oct 21 21:10:01 all except me! Being Irish and all =) Oct 21 21:10:06 jasta: all depends on how many each store will get. Oct 21 21:10:13 can someone working for google please confirm if the next phone will be the HTC touch? Oct 21 21:10:17 the store i'm targetting will get 90, and im showing up very early Oct 21 21:10:25 jasta: how do you know? Oct 21 21:10:39 actually i called around a lot, and availability is quite low. if they sell out of every phone initially shipped to t-mobile stores, i dont think they will have even sold that many phones :) Oct 21 21:10:46 unix_lappy: you can just call them, the store managers know everything Oct 21 21:10:53 mohbana: nobody at google can confirm or deny details about HTC products, google employees don't work for HTC. :-) Oct 21 21:11:02 i even figured out roughly how early i should show up. the store is scheduling employees to start 1 hour before normal Oct 21 21:11:28 so time for plan B jasta? :) Oct 21 21:11:43 jasta: do you have t-mobile already? Oct 21 21:11:50 f00f-: why plan B? Oct 21 21:11:56 don't they come locked to t-mobile by default, and need an unlock? Oct 21 21:12:04 vol: no, but that's not a problem. i am signing up. Oct 21 21:12:41 steventroughtons: nah, i keep getting android.kernel.org[0: 199.6.1.176]: errno=Connection timed out Oct 21 21:12:43 ah. Oct 21 21:12:55 good evening Oct 21 21:13:03 you have checked whether you have 3G in the area already, right? Oct 21 21:13:04 igravious: there are more, try 'export proxy=' instead of http_proxy Oct 21 21:13:11 could anyone please share webkit repo? Oct 21 21:13:11 vol: of course Oct 21 21:13:57 jasta, are you happy now :)? Oct 21 21:14:12 If you are, send a picture so we believe you. Oct 21 21:14:12 yes this is very exciting Oct 21 21:14:34 hi plusminus, thanks on the forum Oct 21 21:14:45 i think you guys have the wrong impression about me, really. Oct 21 21:14:51 steventroughtons: loading takes a damn while... :) Oct 21 21:14:52 Very likely. :-) Oct 21 21:14:57 hehe Oct 21 21:15:08 i wouldn't have written apps for this platform if i thought it was junk Oct 21 21:15:24 jasta: we're glad you're here. Oct 21 21:15:27 i'm just unwilling to call it perfect, as seems popular. Oct 21 21:16:02 and it just so happens a large portion of its flaws are oriented against my project :) Oct 21 21:16:20 conspiracy Oct 21 21:16:22 Jasta: it was a deliberate decision aimed at you Oct 21 21:16:32 Cedric2++ Oct 21 21:16:35 and o fcourse, the deficient google employee attitude doesn't help Oct 21 21:16:37 The conspiracy revealed! Oct 21 21:16:48 You mean "inspired"? Oct 21 21:16:53 i hate being deficient Oct 21 21:16:54 anyone know if you can run the disk image creation process by itself? Oct 21 21:16:58 'make bootimage' ? Oct 21 21:17:04 jasta: deficient? I think we have plenty of attitude. Oct 21 21:17:05 wanna package webcore into it Oct 21 21:17:05 Somehow, I feel complimented Oct 21 21:17:27 fadden: well, take Cedric2's comment for instance. do you have any idea how often i hear that comment in response to "there are bugs that make my project really hard to build." Oct 21 21:17:59 what do you want him to say? Oct 21 21:18:03 it's either every googler has the same terrible sense of humor or they are unwilling to have an objective conversation about real limitations. Oct 21 21:18:22 Seriously, what do you want him to say Oct 21 21:18:23 Cedric2 is french. Those guys have no sense of humor of which we are aware. Oct 21 21:18:25 DannyB: perhaps, "really, like which? let's discuss." Oct 21 21:18:40 jasta: you do realize if he did this for the hunreds of people that ask him all the time Oct 21 21:18:42 Our sense of humor goes largely misunderstood by non-French, that much is true Oct 21 21:18:44 he would have no time to do real work? Oct 21 21:19:06 and that most discussions about limitations are not going to translate into anything useful? Oct 21 21:19:09 Cedric2: I totally agree Oct 21 21:19:14 by the way, no one has once reached out to me to explain or clarify some of the most critical technical issues i've faced with android. all of my info came through side conversations with friends of mine at google who were willing to dig up helpful information. Oct 21 21:19:14 scratch the above, i got it Oct 21 21:19:31 jasta: prior to today, they couldn't for starters Oct 21 21:19:38 Jasta: a lot is happening in the world besides your personal problems Oct 21 21:19:40 jasta: Consider the amount of work it would take to provide the level of support that you expect for every developer. Oct 21 21:19:41 jasta: did you expect personal support on every issue you were facing? Oct 21 21:19:45 right Oct 21 21:19:53 I noticed in eclipse the "Android Library" says that the sources for android.jar should be in $SDK_PATH/sources ...any idea what type of dir structure eclipse is looking for? I've tried a few things but eclipse isn't seeing it Oct 21 21:19:55 you seem to expect personal support for your project and it's just not going to happen Oct 21 21:19:57 jasta: The SDK wasn't even done until recently, and they were shipping a phone. Oct 21 21:19:59 ttuttle: how about just documenting your system's known weaknesses, then? Oct 21 21:20:00 DOG PILE ON JASTA Oct 21 21:20:09 Jasta: maybe you will have better luck with Apple employees on the #iphone irc channel Oct 21 21:20:12 jasta: Why? They had better things to do, like fix the ones they could, and ship. Oct 21 21:20:16 actually, i don't know why i said anything Oct 21 21:20:19 jasta: They file bug reports and move on Oct 21 21:20:22 this is the response google has given in absolutely every case. Oct 21 21:20:25 and fix the higher priority bug reports Oct 21 21:20:29 zhobbs: are you trying to bring up an eclipse java project? Oct 21 21:20:30 steventroughtons: is it normal the boot takes ages? Oct 21 21:20:36 why discuss the real tehcnical faults when you can just point out exactly why google doesn't care to entertain them Oct 21 21:20:43 zhobbs: in the SDK or with the open source release? Oct 21 21:20:43 yo don't get it Oct 21 21:20:44 MrSnowflake: it wont boot without pushing in WebCore mate Oct 21 21:20:46 you really don't get it Oct 21 21:20:48 it's not Oct 21 21:20:48 as I mentioned in the blog post Oct 21 21:20:49 about Oct 21 21:20:50 you Oct 21 21:20:52 == DannyB Oct 21 21:20:54 DO NOT FEED THE TROLL Oct 21 21:21:03 steventroughtons: hehe, I thought I should do it after booting, sorry mis read Oct 21 21:21:06 mattl: Awww, and I just paid my $0.25 for troll food. Oct 21 21:21:11 DannyB: why do you even need to address me, then? what about addressing your published APIs? Oct 21 21:21:19 stadlero: I'd like to be able to step into the framwork source code while working/debugging my app Oct 21 21:21:27 mattl: We should put in a troll food machine that charges $0.25, and donate the profits to some OSS groups. Oct 21 21:21:31 Ouch. Oct 21 21:21:31 jasta: so you think they sit around doing nothing? Oct 21 21:21:51 DannyB: no, i think they sit around privately discussing information that is not considered useful to bother writing in a public place. Oct 21 21:21:57 prior Oct 21 21:21:57 ttuttle: you should see what we have in #gnu man. it's legendary. Oct 21 21:21:57 to Oct 21 21:21:58 today Oct 21 21:22:03 mattl: Heh. Oct 21 21:22:04 they coulnd't write it in a public place Oct 21 21:22:09 what part of that are you having trouble understanding Oct 21 21:22:15 DannyB: Stop trying to win an unwinnable discussion. Oct 21 21:22:22 DannyB: so you couldn't tell me that the MediaPlayer wouldn't support ogg streaming? was that confidential? Oct 21 21:22:28 jasta: yes, actually Oct 21 21:22:31 !? Oct 21 21:22:57 SanMehat: Greetings. Oct 21 21:23:05 SanMehat: I strongly suggest you turn back now. There is a gigantic flamewar. Oct 21 21:23:06 jasta: A very simple thing you have to note is that the G1 is *not* a Google product, it's a T-Mobile product. Many of the "which features will the device have" questions are not Google's to answer. Oct 21 21:23:29 stadlero: except that google did answer: the mediaplayer officially has ogg support Oct 21 21:23:38 ttuttle: hey Oct 21 21:23:39 it does not, however, support ogg streaming. well that would have been a useful footnote MAYBE! Oct 21 21:23:48 SanMehat: can we get a kick on jasta plz Oct 21 21:24:01 uhm Oct 21 21:24:04 mattl: bt he's kinda fun to watch Oct 21 21:24:05 excuse me? Oct 21 21:24:06 jasta: or try #tmobile and ask the TMobile employees, they know and if they don't tell you, it's clearly a conspiracy against you Oct 21 21:24:15 * SanMehat is away - meeting Oct 21 21:24:19 google should put on the google.com front page that G1 doesn't support Ogg/Vorbis!!! Oct 21 21:24:24 zhobbs: that is probably doable, but it isn't simple, because you'll be stepping outside of the SDK in order to do it. I am working on a classpath for eclipse that lets you import the framework sources, but it's primarily useful for smart editing, etc. You still have to *build* the framework in the command line. Oct 21 21:24:24 SanMehat: nice duck Oct 21 21:24:41 * jasonchen puts his hand on the Op console Oct 21 21:24:45 notsupported.html Oct 21 21:24:52 Just list everything *not* in the SDK and *not* in the API Oct 21 21:25:01 we'll get that right up for you Oct 21 21:25:09 of course, 99% of the people who bought it needs Ogg/Vorbis... Oct 21 21:25:09 does anyone here do android development without eclipse Oct 21 21:25:10 btw, has anyone tried to fix idea-android plugin? Oct 21 21:25:11 why is this the attitude that you guys give? i really don't get it. Oct 21 21:25:18 is that helpful? Oct 21 21:25:19 mattl: as a 3rd party observer, there are clearly more people contributing to this argument Oct 21 21:25:39 DannyB: well, we did point out that dot matrix printers aren't supported... Oct 21 21:25:43 jasta: becase you seem to think that all of the problems oy have had are life threatening problems that affect all applicationd evelopers and obviously should have been called out in big bold letter Oct 21 21:25:44 s Oct 21 21:25:48 jasonchen: they're not?! Oct 21 21:25:59 refund plz Oct 21 21:26:01 mib_f09da0: I prefer writing code in IDEA but unfortunately plugin is brocken now :( Oct 21 21:26:02 and it trns out you are simply wrong, and believe what you are doing is much more widely used and important than it atually is Oct 21 21:26:04 hth Oct 21 21:26:13 DannyB: but google documented tons and tons of bugs Oct 21 21:26:17 and responded meaningfully to loads of them Oct 21 21:26:17 mattl: me too Oct 21 21:26:18 mattl: i think we had to leave out support 5.25" floppies too Oct 21 21:26:22 so it was clearly the policy to do so Oct 21 21:26:28 jasta: You blasted them all summer for not spending their time giving you code so you could bother them while they were shipping a phone. You've spent months complaining that Google isn't catering to your every whim. I suspect they take a kinder position with people who are more cooperative and less needy. Oct 21 21:26:58 I thought that google guys would call me back, and answer all the questions I had about G1/Android... Oct 21 21:27:06 lol, this is ridiculous Oct 21 21:27:12 * ttuttle expected Sergey to deliver my phone personally! Oct 21 21:27:16 If it's not true, I want my money back! Oct 21 21:27:20 topeira: we did dude, you didn't check your voicemail Oct 21 21:27:27 jasonchen: why bother releasing it then? next you'll be telling me there's no support for bang path email, UUCP, acoustic couplers, cassette tapes, or the CueCat... Oct 21 21:27:30 DannyB: :D Oct 21 21:27:36 ttuttle: let me ask you something, did you find that building tools at Google, you had resources available within the company to discuss technical issues? Oct 21 21:27:41 jasta: Yes. Oct 21 21:27:46 ttuttle: did I? Oct 21 21:27:51 jasta: No. Oct 21 21:27:54 (other than romain, who was excellent) Oct 21 21:28:04 romainguy +1 Oct 21 21:28:27 stadlero: hmmm, I actually just got it to work in a non-android project by zipping up the sources for android.* and specifying it as the source location for android.jar...now just gotta figure out what "Android Library" is looking for Oct 21 21:28:37 jasta is great for relaxing between compilations Oct 21 21:28:37 ttuttle: OK. I was trying to support the platform exactly as you were. Oct 21 21:28:38 jasta: But there's a good reason for that -- turning Android into a polished product and shipping it was a higher priority than helping people code apps for it, for the simple reason that it's better to have a good phone and few apps than a shitty or nonexistent phone with tons of apps. Oct 21 21:28:52 ttuttle: you wrote top Oct 21 21:28:55 btw. Oct 21 21:29:04 jasta: ...except I was doing jobs that the Android team told me to do, and they were paying me for that. Oct 21 21:29:04 so them spending time helping you probably wasn't all that useful to the bottom line Oct 21 21:29:21 jasta: So those tools were all requested by someone. Oct 21 21:29:38 jasta, we wanted top for a long long time to help debug the system Oct 21 21:29:40 jasta: It turns out top (and the other utilities I wrote) are fairly useful to developers. Oct 21 21:29:54 ah, forgot to say: blame it on google that webkit repository is gone! Oct 21 21:29:59 == topeira Oct 21 21:30:05 * ttuttle really thinks Google should've mirrored :-\ Oct 21 21:30:17 ttuttle: I was joking :D Oct 21 21:30:19 webkit repo seems to be working now Oct 21 21:30:24 slowly, but working Oct 21 21:30:27 * ttuttle syncs. Oct 21 21:30:36 topeira: You shouldn't have said anything -- now everyone will try again. Oct 21 21:30:42 stop!!! Oct 21 21:30:45 don't do it yet Oct 21 21:30:46 lol Oct 21 21:30:49 Too late. Oct 21 21:30:54 let someone get it and mirror it Oct 21 21:30:58 It is running, albeit slowly. Oct 21 21:31:04 that way if its down again we'll be good Oct 21 21:31:10 * ttuttle will mirror once it's downloaded. Oct 21 21:31:12 :) Oct 21 21:31:15 jasta: I'm not clear what your core complaints are regarding google's approach to supporting android developers. Oct 21 21:31:18 btw I know simple 'hack' to skip webkit and download main core first ;) Oct 21 21:31:29 its not really a hack :) Oct 21 21:31:29 thevery: Yeah, comment it out in manifest.xml. Oct 21 21:31:36 It's a feature. Oct 21 21:31:45 ttuttle: yeah, you know it Oct 21 21:32:08 sorry, had to take a work call Oct 21 21:32:11 jasta: just use an iPhone; it's a much more open arch :D Oct 21 21:32:13 lol, i occassionally have a day job :) Oct 21 21:32:21 * gdsx looks oddly at topeira Oct 21 21:32:25 jasta: Why are they paying you to IRC? Oct 21 21:32:34 jasta: Or do you actually have lots of free time? Oct 21 21:32:36 jasta: And I'm sure they will send you all the source code you need Oct 21 21:32:39 jasta: btw, i expect to see a massive number of documentation patches from you soon, right? Oct 21 21:32:40 i'm a sysadmin, they pay me to do lots of things not administrating systems ;) Oct 21 21:32:49 DannyB: precisely. Oct 21 21:33:06 well, that depends...where's the MediaPlayer? :) Oct 21 21:33:25 gdsx: It was a joke Oct 21 21:33:34 first things first, i need to talk to some engineers about this, if that's possible. i assume there are critical concerns with the internals that need to be understood before i can proceed Oct 21 21:33:36 but I won't feed the troll anymore Oct 21 21:34:02 damn, do you still have to download a google earth kml file to simulate gps on android sdk Oct 21 21:34:21 I'm pretty sure I'm drowning in haterade Oct 21 21:34:58 * fadden learns the word "haterade", decides he likes it Oct 21 21:34:59 DannyB: i actually started this conversation by just saying that i think you guys had the wrong idea about me, and i think that you do. Oct 21 21:35:22 my trials with Android over the past 11 months have not been overwhelmingly positive, however i do not believe i have made the wrong choice. Oct 21 21:35:43 amjad: GPX files work too Oct 21 21:35:44 interestingly enough, new folks around here have absolutely no idea of the sheer volume of effort i've put into this so far. Oct 21 21:35:57 jasta, I know you're an ungrateful bastard, what's you're point? :-) Oct 21 21:35:59 such as yourself, clearly, criticizing my lack of commitment. Oct 21 21:36:23 as my first priority once i get a stable release of Five is to fix this MediaPlayer to whatever ability I can Oct 21 21:37:01 I think they are just giving you crap. Nobody is questioning your commitment. At least, I don't think they should be. Oct 21 21:37:27 I noticed a lot of Google people show up in here recently that I've never seen before. Oct 21 21:37:38 yakischloba: yea Oct 21 21:37:40 jasta: didn't you once complain there was no way to turn JNI checking off? Oct 21 21:37:41 yep Oct 21 21:37:42 yakischloba: it's because we finally stopped working nights & weekends Oct 21 21:37:48 romainguy_: heh Oct 21 21:38:11 romainguy_: not questioning why, just pointing out ;) Oct 21 21:38:37 jasta is as committed as any one of people working here Oct 21 21:39:10 This isn't intended to be derogatory, but committed to what? Oct 21 21:39:26 The word "committed" on it's own is meaningless Oct 21 21:39:29 making android succeed and helping new users/devs, from what i've seen Oct 21 21:39:35 and his pet project of course :) Oct 21 21:40:18 Disconnect: And the nights+weekends worked by Google engineers is probably a greater individual commitment still. Oct 21 21:40:40 has anyone tried building on fedora? Oct 21 21:40:51 tomgibara: paid, however *shrug* Oct 21 21:40:58 So it must be pretty irritating for the people who actually work on Android, when jasta criticises them Oct 21 21:41:00 so? not to get involved in this mess, but how does google employees doing their jobs translate to nobody else having a worthwhile "commitment" or contribution? Oct 21 21:41:05 who uses fedora? :-) Oct 21 21:41:10 me Oct 21 21:41:10 Irrespective of his individual commitment Oct 21 21:41:24 i think this whole conversation is quite retarded and irrelevant Oct 21 21:41:34 hey, I just crashed Android Oct 21 21:41:39 attempts to measure an intangible such as "commitment" are awfully likely to fail to produce anything substantive Oct 21 21:41:39 we've grown to 209 people and still the same old crap Oct 21 21:41:51 If you ignore the tone and see the problem being reported, the criticism is worthwhile. Oct 21 21:41:54 tomgibara: i'm not criticizing anything any engineer has done, however. Oct 21 21:41:58 (the steventroughton build) Oct 21 21:42:12 Like noticing that there's no way to turn JNI checking off in the emulator. Oct 21 21:42:16 well, except whoever wrote the MediaPlayer :P Oct 21 21:42:24 that would be me Oct 21 21:42:30 so how about that local sports team? Oct 21 21:42:31 * ttuttle grabs some popcorn. Oct 21 21:42:33 tethridge: i have a couple of changes to make it compile on fedora here, but they're not good yet... http://review.source.android.com/581 http://review.source.android.com/588 http://review.source.android.com/771 Oct 21 21:42:34 marcone: !? Oct 21 21:42:36 *Now* it's one. Oct 21 21:42:39 s/one/on/ Oct 21 21:42:39 fadden meant: *Now* it's on. Oct 21 21:42:44 so unrelated note, it'd be nice if "this app will replace some existing software" said something useful. like what existing software it thinks its replacing :) Oct 21 21:42:50 marcone: i thought you wrote the _app_ that plays media. Oct 21 21:42:54 tethridge: easy stuff, though. Oct 21 21:42:55 (itunes remote brought up that) Oct 21 21:43:04 i'm talking about the MediaPlayer in the framework. Oct 21 21:43:27 Anyone who can't rise above the shit is no better than the person who is annoying him. All of us, including Google folks, have /ignore at their disposal :/ Oct 21 21:43:30 ralpht: Which functions were undefined that you needed malloc.h for? Oct 21 21:43:54 jasta: that was more of a joint effort, but I'll take blame for that too. What's wrong with it? Oct 21 21:44:08 (well, I know what's wrong with it, what do *you* think is wrong with it) Oct 21 21:44:13 marcone: are you kidding? Oct 21 21:44:23 ok, let me collect my issues, hang on Oct 21 21:44:23 jham___: malloc Oct 21 21:44:44 I have troubles compiling on ubuntu 7.10 AMD64, /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++ Oct 21 21:44:46 ralpht: The SUSv3 defines that in stdlib.h, not malloc.h Oct 21 21:44:49 marcone: privmsg Oct 21 21:44:50 jham___: i sent you mail; i couldn't seem to post a comment on the review site; not sure which fields i need to fill out. Oct 21 21:45:00 jham___: yeah, stdlib.h would have been a better choice Oct 21 21:45:01 --wow--. why does itunes remote want a blanket allow on my phone? too much time reading apple eula's i bet. uck, no way. :( Oct 21 21:45:17 Disconnect: I don't think iTunes Remote was written by Apple. Oct 21 21:45:28 yah hence "reading" eulas not "writing" them Oct 21 21:45:29 jham___: i can try and change the patch set to use stdlib.h. Oct 21 21:45:38 ttuttle, Disconnect: iTunes remote was written by umdk1d3 Oct 21 21:45:53 ralpht: That should work everywhere, hopefully Oct 21 21:46:01 miso: do you have libstdc++6-dev package installed? Oct 21 21:46:10 miso: better yet, install build-essential Oct 21 21:46:14 umdk1d3: you'se got some 'splainin to do.. :) whats with the security list? Oct 21 21:46:20 jham___: ok. is the change good apart from malloc.h? Oct 21 21:46:28 ralpht: Yep Oct 21 21:46:40 ralpht: i think you probably want to squash those three changes together into one commit using "git rebase -i HEAD~3" or some such command and then upload the new patch with "repo upload". unfortunately gerrit doesn't support replacement patchsets yet so its going to make a whole new change Oct 21 21:46:47 do we need the SDK to actually use the stuff checked out from git? Oct 21 21:46:53 ralpht: Did theese three patches get you to compile the full source tree on fedora? Oct 21 21:47:11 mattl: Nope, the git stuff stands alone Oct 21 21:47:16 yes, I've with apt-cache serach searche for all libstdc packages, most of them also installed, no success Oct 21 21:47:22 I'm solving same problems on Debian, and I've got quite more changes here. Oct 21 21:47:28 And still cimpiling. Oct 21 21:47:36 jham___: do you know if that includes some kind of emulator? Oct 21 21:47:36 jham___: nearly, there was another change to emulator and one to another external library. Oct 21 21:47:59 mattl: The git sources build the emulator Oct 21 21:48:01 miso: do you have libstdc++6-dev installed? Oct 21 21:48:15 yes Oct 21 21:48:24 spearce: ok, i'll have a go at that. this is my first time using git :). Oct 21 21:48:35 Hmm, seems it got built finally. Oct 21 21:48:36 ralpht: Mine too ;-) Oct 21 21:49:02 spearce: Any luch with repo? Oct 21 21:49:13 *luck Oct 21 21:49:27 xl0: i think i pushed the fix. repo sync should automatically upgrade itself to the v1.0.2 release Oct 21 21:49:42 xl0: there was a minor change to tools/thirdparty/OpenFst. Oct 21 21:49:46 xl0: as well Oct 21 21:49:51 miso: does this work? echo 'int main(){return 0;}' > foo.cpp; g++ -o foo foo.cpp -lstdc++ Oct 21 21:50:23 aha I managed to build a system rootfs image with webcore Oct 21 21:50:27 ralpht: Let me update repo and I'll pos the diffstat so we can compare which files needed changes. Oct 21 21:50:44 xl0: ok. Oct 21 21:51:27 could someone please explain to me why i'm getting these messages with 'repo init' before i go insane? thx. android.kernel.org[0: 199.6.1.176]: errno=Connection timed out Oct 21 21:51:30 gdsx: it compiles well Oct 21 21:51:37 /Volumes/Android/out/host/darwin-x86/bin/mkyaffs2image /Volumes/Android/out/target/product/generic/root /Volumes/Android/out/target/product/generic/system_compiled.img Oct 21 21:51:41 Is git dead again? Oct 21 21:51:44 i get build/core/host_java_library.mk:28: *** multiple target patterns. Stop. Oct 21 21:51:46 s/git/webkit git/; Oct 21 21:51:49 eck, bad paste Oct 21 21:51:52 (Yes.) Oct 21 21:51:57 igravious: firewall preventing you from getting to kernel.org using git:// is my guess Oct 21 21:51:58 ttuttle: looks like it Oct 21 21:52:03 Damn. Oct 21 21:53:18 haha there's a terminal emulator now :D Oct 21 21:53:30 steventroughtons: Where? Oct 21 21:53:30 * sramv23 wonders if there's an irc client for android yet. Oct 21 21:53:32 I was bitching on about that like a month ago :P Oct 21 21:53:36 ralpht: http://zaytsev.su/more-headers.patch Oct 21 21:53:38 sramv23: yes Oct 21 21:53:39 it's inside the developer stuff Oct 21 21:53:39 spearce: and how *pray* do i sneak around the evil evil firewall? Oct 21 21:53:43 bottom of the list Oct 21 21:53:52 steventroughtons: Oh, in there. Oct 21 21:53:59 igravious: port forwarding with ssh. Oct 21 21:54:08 ralpht: That's besides the aidl fixes that got already merged. Oct 21 21:54:13 igravious: i don't have a work around off hand for you other than port forwarding as mattl suggests Oct 21 21:54:42 http://www.imagebam.com/image/39a96116377139 Oct 21 21:55:02 spearce: Btw, thanks for the fast fix. And the self-update-before-doing-anything-else feature is really well-thought. ;) Oct 21 21:55:25 xl0: its also pgp signed and stuff so its pretty paranoid Oct 21 21:55:30 xl0: that looks about right Oct 21 21:55:32 mattl: if i ask you really really nicely... you make it sound soooo easy... ssh -L right ?? Oct 21 21:55:45 * ahaberlacho yawns. Anything happening today? Oct 21 21:56:08 xl0: although my build hasn't finished yet Oct 21 21:56:13 igravious: off the top of my head SSH -L fooport:mattl@barhost:fooport Oct 21 21:56:40 ahaberlacho: I hear MonsterDroid is starting to wake from his eternal slumber Oct 21 21:56:53 spearce: how do i see changes that i already git committed? Oct 21 21:57:32 mattl: thrilling, yet at the same time edifying :) Oct 21 21:57:49 ralpht: "git log", or if you want to see only your commits on the current branch, "git log m/master.." Oct 21 21:58:04 ralpht: add -p flag if you want to see the diffs too Oct 21 21:58:21 spearce: thanks Oct 21 21:58:29 umdk1d3: you awake today? its the big day.. :) and peolpe are wondering why itunes remote wants to reformat their dog and run off with their wives... Oct 21 21:58:43 Im uploading a system.img with webcore built in, so you can just drop it in to your sdk images dir and use it Oct 21 21:58:46 be 4 mins Oct 21 22:00:23 what can be added to emulator from the release? Oct 21 22:00:47 IM (isnt working anyway), Settings app, Mail? Oct 21 22:00:48 ralpht: Ok, uploading then. Please pull is something fails. Oct 21 22:00:51 (is mail in the sdk?) Oct 21 22:00:58 xl0: cool Oct 21 22:01:02 thanks :) Oct 21 22:01:39 no prob VickiWong Oct 21 22:01:41 xl0: did you have any problems with apicheck? Oct 21 22:02:02 well, i hope ye all have a swell time playing with it: maybe somebody can put up a doc explaining how those behind firewalls may play with the android enchantress Oct 21 22:02:29 igravious: did portforwarding not work? Oct 21 22:02:41 igravious: its most likely you need to talk to IT at your work to get it allowed Oct 21 22:03:02 ralpht: Don't think so. Oct 21 22:03:23 mattl: the devil is in the details, which ports and what host do i ssh into :( Oct 21 22:03:33 xl0: did you get anywhere with getting things compiling on debian? Oct 21 22:03:55 xl0: ok, i filed a bug on it; apicheck was complaining that 0.0010f and 0.001f were different values. Oct 21 22:04:00 igravious: i don't know the gitport off hand, but google does. and you will need a GNU/Linux machine or similar to ssh into. Oct 21 22:04:05 steventroughtons: it's not as easy as "can you punch a hole in the firewall for git for me pretty please, ya know".... Oct 21 22:04:26 igravious know ;) but that's likely the only way to get it to work Oct 21 22:04:32 i know* Oct 21 22:04:34 mattl: I've got a build without errors, but ran make clean, and am rebuilding now. Just to be sure. Oct 21 22:04:56 xl0: what java stuff do you have installed? Oct 21 22:05:09 steventroughtons: we corkmen aren't as smart as ye dubliners ya know ;) Oct 21 22:05:09 i'm installing openjdk-6-jdk now. Oct 21 22:05:27 mattl: righty-ho Oct 21 22:05:29 igravious: you stalking me now? Cork? ;) You work at apple? Oct 21 22:05:45 mattl: I installed sun-java5-jdk, I think it's from the non-free section. Oct 21 22:05:58 irc client, bottom of the list <- sorry, where? (what list?) :) Oct 21 22:06:09 xl0: okay. not an option for me... but things are going okay with the openjdk. Oct 21 22:06:12 languish: ???? Oct 21 22:06:43 oh my bad Oct 21 22:06:49 it was michaelnovakj2 Oct 21 22:06:55 http://mobilestack.googlecode.com/svn/android-1.0.steven.20081021.192406.system.img.zip Oct 21 22:06:56 there! Oct 21 22:06:56 mattl: i had the apicheck error with openjdk-6 on fedora 9. Oct 21 22:06:58 steventroughtons: hey you know i spent 2 weeks in Ireland in September? :) Oct 21 22:06:59 go play, webcore built in Oct 21 22:07:16 jasta: congrats, did the sun shine at all? :P Oct 21 22:07:21 once, briefly Oct 21 22:07:22 hehe Oct 21 22:07:26 but i dont mind, i'm from seattle Oct 21 22:07:26 hehe Oct 21 22:07:31 our ewather here is nearly identical Oct 21 22:07:32 steventroughtons: is the webkit git back up? Oct 21 22:07:36 zhobbs: no Oct 21 22:07:39 i went to seattle once. it rained. Oct 21 22:07:43 zhobbs: No, I stole webcore from the SDK Oct 21 22:08:01 i had a great time though. the dolphin in dingle was cool :) Oct 21 22:08:13 jasta: Fungi? our gay dolphin? :P\ Oct 21 22:08:16 I went to Seattle once and it was sunny and beautiful for the 4 days I was there...the locals said it was a fluke Oct 21 22:08:22 yeah him Oct 21 22:08:22 the icon of kerry, ahaha Oct 21 22:08:42 ah, googles finally returning hits aplenty for android irc client searches Oct 21 22:08:57 steventroughtons: our first day there was in Kilkenny on the 6th or whatever when they played the hurling final :) Oct 21 22:08:59 amazing what one days difference makes Oct 21 22:09:05 that was a lot of fun Oct 21 22:10:07 is SDK = source code? Oct 21 22:10:10 steventroughtons: what county are you in btw? Oct 21 22:10:18 dublin :P Oct 21 22:10:23 dd94300: Software Development Kit. You don't need that. Oct 21 22:10:25 dd94300: no Oct 21 22:10:33 you need the SDK to run the built image :) Oct 21 22:10:47 you do? i thought the emulator was in git? Oct 21 22:10:57 oh you're right! Oct 21 22:11:00 phew. Oct 21 22:11:09 BUT using the SDK keeps my user data from before Oct 21 22:11:11 cause the SDK has a weird license on it. Oct 21 22:11:14 The emulator is GPL, and has been out for a while. Oct 21 22:11:24 xl0: how come there are no changes for aidl in your set. did those already get submitted? Oct 21 22:11:29 fadden: you're a mindreader ;) Oct 21 22:11:48 GPL = weird. I'll remember that :D Oct 21 22:11:50 haha Oct 21 22:11:51 steventroughtons: just from yer blog dude, to which you posted a link, and chill, i'm in sunny barça, _heh_ Oct 21 22:12:04 steventroughtons: shut it ;) Oct 21 22:12:06 Replace "weird" with "incompatible with Apache 2". Oct 21 22:12:14 ralpht: I sent the aidl changes earlier, they are already merged. Oct 21 22:12:15 steventroughtons: anyhow, i'm gonna try this from home :) Oct 21 22:12:21 steventroughtons: ta Oct 21 22:12:22 er.. Apache 2 is GPL compatible. Oct 21 22:12:24 mattl: ta Oct 21 22:12:27 igravious: yeah, home is best i think Oct 21 22:12:54 git.webkit.org[0: 74.86.47.130]: errno=Connection refused Oct 21 22:13:00 mattl: The FSF considers it not to be. We'll generally respect their wishes on that fact. Oct 21 22:13:07 xl0: ok Oct 21 22:13:24 Is there a way to pull a non-reviewd user branch? Oct 21 22:13:42 did you also submit atree? Oct 21 22:14:11 It appears you can do just about anything with git, if you can only figure out how to make it work. :-) Oct 21 22:14:16 jbailey: heh, i work at the FSF ;) -- GPLv3 compatible, but not GPLv2. Oct 21 22:14:37 mattl: *lol* Awesome. =) Oct 21 22:14:51 mattl: I'm tired, I saw the two and thought GPLv2. =) Oct 21 22:15:09 I feel such an outcast being an iPhone developer :P no open source for me! Oct 21 22:15:15 jbailey: its okay. i'm sick today, i had to check.. but when I see GPL i assume v3. Oct 21 22:15:28 ralpht: I submitted everyting I've got, I think you can see them here: http://review.source.android.com/all Oct 21 22:15:35 steventroughtons: too right. maybe you'll become a free software developer now :) Oct 21 22:16:05 mattl: with the money from the App Store it's not likely ;) But I want to support Android in every way I can Oct 21 22:16:09 git.webkit.org[0: 74.86.47.130]: errno=Connection refused Oct 21 22:16:20 xl0: ok, those are all the ones i had to change. Oct 21 22:16:22 hopefully someday someone will take pity on me and send me an Android-running device O:) Oct 21 22:16:46 steventroughtons: and then i hope they take pity on me Oct 21 22:16:51 xl0: i'll delete my changes Oct 21 22:17:05 t_ubuntu: known problem: http://source.android.com/known-issues Oct 21 22:18:15 masounds: does it have a know work around? or just wait? Oct 21 22:18:23 jham: May I ask, what do the "No score. claim the change" messages mean? Oct 21 22:18:49 weird. Oct 21 22:18:58 xl0: is that what you got? (unknown): error 17: Field android.hardware.SensorManager.LIGHT_NO_MOON has changed value from 0.0010f to 0.001f Oct 21 22:19:13 Ohh Commits already? Oct 21 22:19:15 thats cool Oct 21 22:19:32 mattl: Never seen that. Let the clean build finish and I'll grep the log for it. Oct 21 22:19:36 mattl: i got that error Oct 21 22:19:46 xl0: I claimed the change to review and test it Oct 21 22:19:48 ok maybe i'm missing something.. in slideme where is the "install this" button? :/ Oct 21 22:19:51 ralpht: meh. Oct 21 22:20:19 mattl: No, it never happens here. Oct 21 22:20:47 mattl: i wrote a bug: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=983&q=apicheck&colspec=ID Type Version Security Status Owner Summary Oct 21 22:21:51 mattl, whoah, is that used to auto-adjust the backlight or something? Oct 21 22:22:08 no idea Oct 21 22:22:20 ralpht: what did you do to hack around it? Oct 21 22:22:20 mattl: whatever generates the file for apicheck is broken, apicheck is a pretty simple tool that just compares two xml files. Oct 21 22:22:58 mattl: changed the two files in build/core/api/ Oct 21 22:23:43 gotcha. Oct 21 22:24:59 reposting the link for anyone who missed it : compiled Android system image here : http://mobilestack.googlecode.com/svn/android-1.0.steven.20081021.192406.system.img.zip Oct 21 22:25:13 looks like droiddoc makes the xml file. Oct 21 22:26:07 seems like webkit git repository is fubared Oct 21 22:26:28 jeld: yep Oct 21 22:27:42 ralpht: external/srec/tools/thirdparty/OpenFst/fst/lib/../../fst/lib/vector-fst.h:412: error: ‘memcpy’ was not declared in this scope Oct 21 22:27:45 make: *** [out/host/linux-x86/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libfst_intermediates/fst.o] Error 1 Oct 21 22:28:07 anyone know if Treo 700p is a viable target for Android? (128MB RAM, XScale PXA270 - ARMv5TE) Oct 21 22:28:07 jham: What's the right wat to correct a commit still being reviewed? Oct 21 22:28:30 does it support thumb? Oct 21 22:28:35 mattl: i think xl0 fixed that in his change Oct 21 22:28:43 mattl: http://review.source.android.com/all contains the four patches intended to fix this and a few similar caces. Oct 21 22:28:52 I believe so. Oct 21 22:28:59 xl0: git sync will bring those down? (git n00b) Oct 21 22:29:11 mattl: I've already pushed them. Oct 21 22:29:21 what does that mean, sorry? Oct 21 22:29:26 Android docs say "ARM5vT or better". Oct 21 22:29:29 mib_iq2axm: yes, ARMv5TE is supported (it's the minium CPU requirement at the moment) Oct 21 22:29:31 Published, I'd say. Oct 21 22:29:44 I am rashly assuming that ARMv5TE is better purely by virtue of having an extra letter :) Oct 21 22:30:05 digit_: cool Oct 21 22:30:12 I believe it's also the first release that supports automatic ARM/THUMB transitions. Oct 21 22:30:32 * fadden looks that up Oct 21 22:30:35 hello all Oct 21 22:30:46 got my G1 yesterday, pretty addicted to it Oct 21 22:30:56 ah sorry, ARMv5T is the effective minimum. But the Treo is fine with regards to the CPU Oct 21 22:30:58 jham: Should I just remove the commit, reset the git and push a new one? Oct 21 22:31:16 Remove in the webapp, I mean. Oct 21 22:31:41 xl0: so, how do i get your changes? Oct 21 22:32:10 hey guys, anyone have a g1? Oct 21 22:32:14 lol Oct 21 22:32:15 yes Oct 21 22:32:15 vitriolix: Yes. Oct 21 22:32:18 hehe Oct 21 22:32:19 lots of people have g1s Oct 21 22:32:21 vitriolix: You can't have it. Oct 21 22:32:30 too bad, already do Oct 21 22:32:31 vitriolix: But I'll test your app if you like. Oct 21 22:32:35 vitriolix: Oh, congrats! Oct 21 22:32:37 hehe Oct 21 22:32:38 woot Oct 21 22:32:41 question about the sd card Oct 21 22:32:42 my friend got to play with one at the wired office the other day, thats as close as Ive been Oct 21 22:32:46 mattl: Wait a short time, the previous patch was reviewed in less then half an hour, and theese four are already being reviewed. Oct 21 22:32:49 vitriolix: Sure. Oct 21 22:32:50 for some reason its not showing up to the browser Oct 21 22:32:54 vitriolix: Browser? Oct 21 22:32:56 vitriolix: Why would it? Oct 21 22:33:06 xl0: okay :) time for more cold medicine Oct 21 22:33:09 vitriolix: I believe file:// URLs are explicitly disabled for security reasons. Oct 21 22:33:11 yeah, i'm trying to download the ssh app and when i click the apk it says "yoiu need an sd card" Oct 21 22:33:15 vitriolix: Oh. Oct 21 22:33:20 vitriolix: Is it plugged in over USB? Oct 21 22:33:23 no Oct 21 22:33:26 vitriolix: Okay. Oct 21 22:33:27 it was at first Oct 21 22:33:30 byt i removed that Oct 21 22:33:35 poped out hte card, reinserted Oct 21 22:33:42 vitriolix: did you close the cover? Oct 21 22:33:52 and in the setting panel fro sd, the "unmount" option is greyed out Oct 21 22:34:05 yeah Oct 21 22:34:15 how do you restart the device? Oct 21 22:34:20 vitriolix: That's odd. Try reseating the card and rebooting. Oct 21 22:34:23 vitriolix: hold the power button Oct 21 22:34:25 vitriolix: Hold End, tap "Power off" then "OK". Oct 21 22:34:39 duh, haha Oct 21 22:34:40 tnx Oct 21 22:34:43 vitriolix: np Oct 21 22:35:02 so far this thing rocks Oct 21 22:35:05 i'm more than impressed Oct 21 22:35:08 vitriolix: good, tell your friends! Oct 21 22:35:23 anyone found a screen keyboard yet? Oct 21 22:35:31 vitriolix: Nope. I don't think they're possible right now. Oct 21 22:35:41 oh, it appears I'm ever more confused than I though about these ARM architectures thing... ARMv5TE is really needed Oct 21 22:35:59 digit_: Seriously... it's like a zoo. There are so many versions. Oct 21 22:36:08 digit_: it's at least a recompile Oct 21 22:36:24 digit_: I don't think the VM requires it, but some of the other stuff might. Oct 21 22:36:31 thats exciting: sim card full Oct 21 22:36:32 wtf Oct 21 22:36:32 haha Oct 21 22:36:38 compared to ARMv5, it adds thumb interworking and the CLZ instruction... Yes, it's like a zoo, or an alphabet primordial soup where features battle each others for survival (Jazelle 1 didn't quite make it it seems :-)) Oct 21 22:36:47 It looks like I'm unable to comment about my own commit. Is that expected? Oct 21 22:38:21 oh, my last phone kept all its sms on the sim, lame Oct 21 22:39:08 I believe the GL stuff requires the CLZ CPU instruction, but that can be trivially changed with a #define somewhere Oct 21 22:39:51 On the other hand, I'm unsure we can build an all-ARM or all-Thumb system image that works properly at the moment... Oct 21 22:40:05 hey digit_ :)) Oct 21 22:40:12 digit_: Are you saying that ARMv5TE has CLZ and ARMv5T doesn't? Oct 21 22:40:16 (all-ARM is too big for the device, and all-thumb cannot link to some assembly code we have in various parts) Oct 21 22:40:31 ttuttle: interesting, clearing up room on the sim card makes the sd card work now Oct 21 22:40:33 digit_: the compiler-generated interwork should handle that, no? Oct 21 22:40:41 I believe ARMv5T doesn't have CLZ, let me know if I'm wrong because it's incredibly difficult to find correct info on this topic Oct 21 22:40:57 digit_: 'cos it looks to me that the treo has a TE, so we should be golden. Oct 21 22:41:56 this is probably a really stupid questions, but what is a commit? Oct 21 22:43:04 according to wikipedia, all Intel XScale CPUs (including the PXA27x) are based on the ARMv5TE, sans floating point instructions. Oct 21 22:44:08 mattl: i've nearly got a fix for droiddoc to avoid the apicheck error. Oct 21 22:44:46 Dumb question: how did we get on ARMv5 and XScale? MSM7K is a Qualcomm part implementing ARMv6, no? Oct 21 22:45:06 andyross: people are interested in porting the other direction. Oct 21 22:45:47 I'm working on the Apple II port. Currently 0.00001% complete. Oct 21 22:46:31 fadden: what's your confidence interval for that? Oct 21 22:46:56 gdsx: I'm confident I can get it working on the Apple II. Oct 21 22:47:07 Very confident. Oct 21 22:47:21 ah, found and dug through the ARMv5 reference manual, ARMv5T has CLZ. On the other hand it doesn't have the cache prefect instruction PLD, which we use in certain places. There are other tiny differences. Oct 21 22:47:24 Step 1: write an ARMv6 emulator for the Apple II. Oct 21 22:47:53 digit_: does it NOP the PLDs or throw something nasty? Oct 21 22:47:58 haha, let's write an ARMv6 emulator in applesoft basic shall we? :P Oct 21 22:48:24 If it ignores them we're good (which I think it does). Oct 21 22:48:43 steventroughtons: you can always peek and poke binary code into memory for execution. =) Oct 21 22:48:55 I'm still reading the docs :-) I would assume it would throw something though. Oct 21 22:49:06 jbailey: almost sounds rude! Oct 21 22:50:00 right, night all, i'm off Oct 21 22:50:36 Ill link http://mobilestack.googlecode.com/svn/android-1.0.steven.20081021.192406.system.img.zip again for good measure ;) Oct 21 22:51:52 so is everyone just having latency issues with the webkit git server? because i'm getting connection refused Oct 21 22:52:04 refused, apple's pulling a stunt :P Oct 21 22:53:09 andyross: the reason is mostly historical/practical. The first Android prototypes were ARMv5 and the emulator still doesn't implement anything over ARMv5TE. The latter is going to change soon; hopefully :-p Oct 21 22:53:17 oh super Oct 21 22:53:52 Is that a qemu limitation? Remind me of the differences: ARMv5TE lacks the vector FPU stuff, right? Oct 21 22:55:09 Some atomic ops like STREX/LDREX got added. Oct 21 22:55:33 andyross: yes, a QEMU limitation, ARMv5TE has the fancy DSP stuff though. Oct 21 22:55:52 jham: ping-ping. Oct 21 22:55:52 PLD is ARMv5TE, PLI is ARMv7. Oct 21 22:56:08 And the physically tagged cache went in there somewhere, right (although I guess that's a ARM11 core thing, not the ARMv6 spec). I know that the XScale I've played with has dog slow context switches. Is that better on the G1? Oct 21 22:56:10 fadden: STREX/LDREX are ARMv6 only. They'll be very useful to speed our pthread implementation by the way :-) Oct 21 22:56:52 andyross: yes Oct 21 22:57:03 The CPU in my A780 takes 20kcycles to get a byte through a pipe, I believe. Oct 21 22:57:05 andyross: I can't comment on that; I remember some of our engineers telling us that context switches were really slow Oct 21 22:57:26 but that was with a previous prototype; not the G1 Oct 21 22:57:43 Traditionally ARM had a virtually tagged cache, so you had to flush it every time you did a syscall. I think they fixed that, but not with which rev of the core. Oct 21 22:58:04 andyross: fairly sure ARM9 has virtual, ARM11 has physical. Oct 21 22:58:31 The round-robin cache replacement on ARM9 was also pretty special. Oct 21 22:58:47 (or whatever the hell it was) Oct 21 22:58:51 Easy enough to test, once someone posts how to jailbreak a G1. Not something I'm really up for; reverse engineering gives me hives. Oct 21 22:59:00 mmmmm... round robin Oct 21 22:59:01 Why do you need to jailbreak it? Oct 21 22:59:15 To test the syscall performance. But just to play with it generally. Oct 21 22:59:15 source of many awesome performance charts! Oct 21 22:59:32 You need root for that? Oct 21 22:59:35 yes, I remember it was round-robin, a.k.a. the fugliest cache replacement policy you can have (even random does better) Oct 21 23:00:00 You need to be able to run C code for that, at least. Not something that works with the G1, right? Or am I wrong and you can get a native app onto the phone? Oct 21 23:00:16 andyross: just call getpid() in a loop, that's probably the fastest syscall you can have. Oct 21 23:00:29 andyross: build something in the ARM tool chain, and "adb push" it to the device. Oct 21 23:00:30 is_computer_on() Oct 21 23:00:32 Actually getpid() isn't a syscall anymore, at least on x86. It just reads TLS data. Oct 21 23:00:37 You don't need (or want!) the rest of the app infrastructure. Oct 21 23:00:43 (or rather, the syscall is still there, but glibc doesn't use it) Oct 21 23:00:46 andyross: vDSO data rather than TLS. Oct 21 23:00:52 Right right. :) Oct 21 23:01:04 it is a syscall in Android Oct 21 23:01:38 fadden: Cool. My phone is still sitting in a box at home for another hour. I've been unclear which of the features would be supported on the physical hardware. Oct 21 23:01:41 is_computer_on() and is_computer_on_fire() were syscalls in BeOS specifically for latency profiling. :) Oct 21 23:01:52 andyross: just make sure you run your benchmarks while the screen is on -- otherwise it drops the CPU speed to save power. Oct 21 23:01:54 digit_: Android does use dynamic ELF binaries does it? Oct 21 23:02:00 ralpht: awesome. Oct 21 23:02:02 doesn't* Oct 21 23:02:15 Really? That's cool. What are the frequencies? Oct 21 23:02:33 jbailey: yes it does, but we have a custom prelinking tool, and a custom dynamic linker Oct 21 23:02:43 quick noob question: does this mean we're going to get a gcc target for android? Oct 21 23:02:59 or a gcc target for certain hw android runs on? Oct 21 23:03:05 andyross: I can't remember the values offhand. Checking to see if I have them somewhere... Oct 21 23:03:11 Who is the person to bug about the webapp problems? Oct 21 23:03:48 digit_: Ah, neat. I don't know how vDSOs work with prelinking. Interesting thought. Oct 21 23:04:48 andyross: can't find it, and don't want to give out bogus misremembered numbers. :-( Oct 21 23:05:01 No biggie. Easy enough to test for too, for that matter. Oct 21 23:05:41 And the toolchain question just came up: will a reasonably standard ARM linux binutils/gcc build work? Oct 21 23:05:42 mattl: it's more of a pain than i thought. it looks like the behavior of printing 0.001 changed between java 5 and 6. I think 0.001 has no exact floating point representation. Oct 21 23:06:37 jbailey: the vDSOs has a fixed address is memory; which is the same for all processes. So it's hardly a problem for prelinking :-) Oct 21 23:06:48 andyross: prebuilt//toolchain/* is probably best Oct 21 23:06:54 digit_: Cool. Oct 21 23:07:17 andyross: no, you should really use the android-provided toolchain, as well as the Android build system Oct 21 23:07:37 Wait, now I'm just being dumb: is there a toolchain already built somewhere? Is that a path in the git souces? Oct 21 23:07:50 Yes (see above). Oct 21 23:08:01 in particular, do not try to build a program against GLibc and uCLibc, and hope that it will run appropriately. Apart from "hello world", your efforts will be doomed Oct 21 23:08:17 digit_: "hello world" works? Wow. :-) Oct 21 23:08:37 Which libc did you start with? Oct 21 23:08:51 for the record, our dynamic linker doesn't support all the relocation types generated by other ARM gnu toolchain, some people had difficulty generating JNI libraries due to this. Now that we distribute the appropriate toolchain, things should be much better for them :-) Oct 21 23:10:13 andyross: our C library is called Bionic, because it's half BSD and half Linux. More seriously, it has a lot of code coming from the BSDs, plus a rather important amount of code coming from our own efforts to handle things that couldn't be easily ported (e.g. threads, signals) Oct 21 23:10:50 Heh, not dietlibc or klibc but yet another. :) Whatever works, I guess. Seems like no one can find a "small libc" that works for everyone. Oct 21 23:11:31 Please tell me at least that you left the ANSI locale stuff on the floor. Oct 21 23:11:40 yes Oct 21 23:11:44 I love it already Oct 21 23:11:57 at least, wchar related stuff Oct 21 23:12:27 my knowledge is 6 months old here though, the last ime i dealt with it was to port libstdc++ and it bitched and moaned about this stuff Oct 21 23:12:37 it could be someone added all this stuff when i wasn't looking Oct 21 23:13:54 andyross: I remember we tried klibc some loong time ago. It was unfortunately buggy, and lacked a *lot* of features we needed. dietlibc is GPL, so this is a no-go for a project like Android Oct 21 23:14:37 any one got this problem ? http://pastebin.com/m7395a054 Oct 21 23:16:02 andyross: no, we don't support locales in Bionic for very specific reasons. And wchar.h exists but contains stubs to 8-bit functions Oct 21 23:16:32 andyross: If you're doing something mainstreamish that needs a small libc, also take a look at http://eglibc.org/ Oct 21 23:16:33 ICU does a so much better job that there is no point in duplicating this in the C library. Besides, any application that depends on wchar_t is essentially broken and/or non-portable Oct 21 23:16:39 Locales were a mistake. I'm not complaining. Oct 21 23:17:10 "Hey, why does 'ls' take 5x as long as it used to?" Oct 21 23:17:17 -- former Red Hat FAQ Oct 21 23:17:50 there is eglibc Oct 21 23:17:50 yeah Oct 21 23:17:51 andyross: One of the tweaks the eglibc folks made was adding a i18n/l10n twiddle. Oct 21 23:18:14 but eglibc exists more becuse of the inability to get patches past Uli than it does because they needed a separate embedded libc Oct 21 23:18:29 it's a "polite fork" than everyone pretends is not a form Oct 21 23:18:32 fork Oct 21 23:18:48 DannyB: do you mean, like uClibc ? Oct 21 23:18:50 DannyB: Just because they'd really like it to become the default glibc on Debian and Ubuntu... Oct 21 23:19:11 It's true that glibc has some edge case problems. Last I played with initrd stuff, gcc -static against glibc produced 500k binaries for a single line main(). Oct 21 23:19:32 jbailey: you know why this is. Inability to get fixes and patches in :) Oct 21 23:19:41 and not horrible ugly patches, sane patches Oct 21 23:19:42 DannyB: Better than most, I suspect. =/ Oct 21 23:20:10 digit_: uclibc was done for very different reasons Oct 21 23:20:33 please tell me, I dig software archeology :-) Oct 21 23:20:33 and by people who honestly, don't have as much support as they really need to run an OSS project Oct 21 23:20:51 it seems to get contributions mainly from corporations that do hit and run OSS Oct 21 23:21:26 I'd like to hack eglibc a bit to see how close I can get it to being small enough for Android. I suspect it won't quite make it, but it would be fun hacking. Oct 21 23:21:56 whereas eglibc was started by code sourcery, mips, montavista, etc. People who have been contributing for years Oct 21 23:22:03 jbailey: not sure it would ever be the defalt Oct 21 23:22:06 +ibm Oct 21 23:22:30 DannyB: For Android? I doubt it would be. But if it were actually small enough to be a contender, it would make a huge difference int he embedded space. Oct 21 23:22:32 jbailey: really, android likes "less restricted" code for good reasons Oct 21 23:22:46 (carriers being very nervous, etc) Oct 21 23:26:34 anyone got a mirror up for git.webkit.org ? Oct 21 23:29:05 rwhitby: if you grab data from /dev/urandom, you'll get it eventually Oct 21 23:29:24 poor old webkit got "androtted" Oct 21 23:29:41 * rwhitby claims copyright on that new word he just invented. Oct 21 23:30:09 * jasta prepares for his first patch ;) Oct 21 23:31:01 i'm embedding the VorbisPlayer code into opencore/fileformats to crudely support ogg streaming for now Oct 21 23:31:21 * rwhitby wonders if repo.or.cz has a webkit mirror Oct 21 23:32:17 so, i'm hearing folks are having a hard time booting fresh builds in the emulator? can anyone confirm/deny? Oct 21 23:32:24 rwhitby: keep me posted if you find one Oct 21 23:32:37 http://repo.or.cz/w/webkit.git looks promising Oct 21 23:32:52 vi ./.repo/manifests/default.xml Oct 21 23:33:11 jasta, you still around? Oct 21 23:33:17 yup, hacking on Android already :) Oct 21 23:33:31 but i need to make sure i can boot this in the emu so i can test it of course Oct 21 23:33:42 I'm trying to compile libsyncml and I'm getting some errors. Let me pastebin it. Oct 21 23:34:04 k Oct 21 23:34:26 rwhitby, wont that strategy go topsyturvy with the .git SHA hashes? Oct 21 23:34:27 http://pastebin.com/d791f8f91 Oct 21 23:34:39 having same prob here btw Oct 21 23:34:46 gambler: if repo.oz.cz is a true mirror it shouldn't. Oct 21 23:34:57 ah yep Oct 21 23:34:58 and it says that it is Oct 21 23:37:02 aborting due to possible repository corruption on the remote side. Oct 21 23:37:20 that's from the repo.or.cz mirror Oct 21 23:37:46 same here Oct 21 23:38:01 greetings. Oct 21 23:38:20 has someone already got a checkout of the real webkit repo that they can put up on a http site somewhere? Oct 21 23:38:38 (since any git checkout is also a serveable mirror) Oct 21 23:38:51 rwhitby: i don't think anyone does. if i manage to get one i'll mirror it. Oct 21 23:39:23 Well, I can connect to my G1 via adb when I'm root Oct 21 23:39:23 hahaha Oct 21 23:39:26 still trying to get the source?! Oct 21 23:39:32 unfortunately, I can't seem to run programs w/ debugging Oct 21 23:39:35 the debugger does not attach Oct 21 23:39:39 although it does push the apk :D Oct 21 23:39:48 so, 2 steps forward, 1 step backwards Oct 21 23:39:51 vol: there is a checkbox to check Oct 21 23:39:53 is there something special I need to do with eclipse? Oct 21 23:39:54 yes Oct 21 23:39:55 I've checked it Oct 21 23:39:57 thanks Oct 21 23:40:00 on the phone? Oct 21 23:40:03 yes Oct 21 23:40:04 enable usb debugging? Oct 21 23:40:06 okay Oct 21 23:40:07 yes Oct 21 23:40:11 sorry Oct 21 23:40:21 I just keep getting that : \ Oct 21 23:40:26 when you say "doesn't work with debugging" do you mean doesn't work with eclipse Oct 21 23:40:37 or doesn't work if you use the right adb commands to start it with the debugger Oct 21 23:40:42 IE if you try it manually Oct 21 23:40:44 vol: you need to make your app debuggable in the manifest (application node) Oct 21 23:40:48 Actually, stupid me, I should try that. Oct 21 23:41:01 xavd: oh? Let me see, I may not have done that. Oct 21 23:41:06 oh, that too :) Oct 21 23:41:11 Would it still pause on "waiting for debugger" on the phone if that were the case? Oct 21 23:41:27 vol: interesting question Oct 21 23:41:34 rwhitby: I've got webkit. Let me know where I can dump it. Oct 21 23:41:55 thepiratebay Oct 21 23:41:57 vol: yes the VM will pause even if the app is non debuggable Oct 21 23:42:11 xavd: that sounds like a bug Oct 21 23:42:18 fadden: agreed Oct 21 23:42:19 rwhitby: try: git://repo.or.cz/webkit.git Oct 21 23:42:27 it seems to be working on this port Oct 21 23:42:58 Yup... anybody who wants to play along at home: see dvmDbgIsDebuggerConnected() in dalvik/vm/Debugger.c Oct 21 23:43:24 Just returns gDvm.debuggerActive without checking to see if the JDWP thread is running. Oct 21 23:43:35 * fadden files a bug Oct 21 23:43:52 gobias: i think you might be right Oct 21 23:43:59 Success! Oct 21 23:44:04 looks like it's trying to work Oct 21 23:44:07 I didn't even realize that that flag was there in the manifest Oct 21 23:44:10 thank you both Oct 21 23:44:13 that's what i get too Oct 21 23:44:22 it's just really slow.... Oct 21 23:44:28 yes, yes it is Oct 21 23:45:00 bricode: if the repo.or.cz works, then we won't need it. if it doesn't, then anywhere with a git:// or http:// URL would be fine. Oct 21 23:45:30 vol: next version fo the plugin will detect that the device requires it and warn you Oct 21 23:45:38 actually i'm getting a solid 600kb/s out of it Oct 21 23:45:42 so i'll know in a few minutes here Oct 21 23:45:44 gobias: awesome... looks like it's gonna work Oct 21 23:45:46 me too Oct 21 23:45:53 thanks Oct 21 23:45:53 evidently the webkit source is huge haha Oct 21 23:46:35 wonderful Oct 21 23:46:46 I'm really glad that android's development is as nice as it is Oct 21 23:47:09 we're trying to port our C libraries for use on android at work, and we have a threading issue and no way to accurately debug it Oct 21 23:47:20 and our industry contacts responses are basically "rewrite it for java! :D" Oct 21 23:47:30 You're porting C to Java, or porting it to the ARM native toolchain? Oct 21 23:47:36 toolchain Oct 21 23:47:44 sorry, bbl, dinner Oct 21 23:50:02 16% and 150mb.. that doesn't seem right Oct 21 23:50:22 vol: Out of curiosity, having no specific android experience but a bit with dealing with subtle threading issues on tool-poor systems: what's the symptom? Simple fprintfs to (autoflushed!) log files are usually enough to figure stuf fout Oct 21 23:51:32 is anyone working on Zfone style encrypted calling for Android? Oct 21 23:51:54 you mean ZRTP or just encrypted calling? Oct 21 23:52:09 mc: seriously... I've got 33% at 220MiB - 600MB of source? that's pretty damn big. Oct 21 23:52:11 either, the goal is no snooping Oct 21 23:52:31 i'll say Oct 21 23:52:46 * andyross is amazed at how many people are actually downloading the full platform stuff instead of just reading the git browser... Oct 21 23:52:53 ivan, its an interest of mine, im not working directly on it at the moment though. Oct 21 23:53:11 andyross: for me, it's to see whether it's a buildable system or not Oct 21 23:53:16 ivan, #sip-communicator is where I sometimes hang out Oct 21 23:53:20 andyross: sometimes a "find | grep" or charging through with an IDE is convenient. Oct 21 23:53:31 Especially when you're not sure where things are yet. Oct 21 23:53:32 gambler: cool Oct 21 23:53:38 andyross: cause changing it is not useful until you can build it Oct 21 23:53:51 No doubt. But still, you have to weigh it against a gigabyte download. I'm willing to bet that latencies would be better to just back off and wait for someone to put up a torrent :) Oct 21 23:54:20 I pay for uploads, so torrents aren't that helpful for me :-) Oct 21 23:54:22 there's always GitTorrent Oct 21 23:55:08 not functional, i would guess Oct 21 23:55:43 ivan, what does gittorrent do Oct 21 23:56:11 some attempt to send git packs over bittorrent Oct 21 23:56:32 Has anybody been able to electronically sign the individual contributor license grant yet? Oct 21 23:57:04 cakoose: what sort of failure are you seeing? Oct 21 23:57:39 fadden: I must be doing something stupid because I can't even see the form. Oct 21 23:57:55 What do you see instead? Oct 21 23:59:04 I see the intro, Google's address, and an ASCII-art form (green text on a light grey background) and the 8-part agreement. Oct 21 23:59:28 Do I need to be logged in or something? Oct 22 00:00:19 cakoose: that's the agreement -- print, sign, snail-mail or e-mail a PDF Oct 22 00:00:27 hey - it downloaded! Oct 22 00:00:45 andyross: I'm not entirely sure. Someone else is handling android stuff for now; I'm stuck on another project for the next week. It seems like a thread may not be respecting a blocking function of some sort Oct 22 00:00:58 in any event, it's just crashing, and since it's done through JNI we can't use gdb Oct 22 00:01:12 this is from a rather mature codebase, so... Oct 22 00:01:15 ralpht: let me see if i can get a free java 5. Oct 22 00:01:28 fadden: The page says I can either send it by snail-mail, e-mail, fax, or sign it electronicaly. Oct 22 00:01:42 vol: gdb can be used on the device, though it's tricky (client/server setup) Oct 22 00:01:44 we do have a logger, except that it runs as another thread, so using it may mask other concurrency issues (and didn't really help us with this issue so far) Oct 22 00:01:47 fadden: I asked on the mailing list and someone said there is a form where you type "I agree" into a text box and submit. Oct 22 00:02:22 cakoose: can't help you there; maybe someone else knows. Oct 22 00:02:47 fadden: is gdb usable via JNI? I wouldn't think so. Oct 22 00:02:53 Does anyone know how the cpu performance with the G1 is? Oct 22 00:03:12 vol: I'm not sure what you mean by "usable via JNI" Oct 22 00:03:15 would we pretty much have to create a static executable, and do gdb that way, and just pretend like we wouldn't be using jni? Oct 22 00:03:45 You run gdbserver against the appropriate binary on the device, then use the "gdbclient" alias on the workstation side. Oct 22 00:03:54 Android runs purely in interpreted mode on the G1 with android right? Oct 22 00:03:58 no JIT or anything? Oct 22 00:04:04 tmccrary: no JIT at this time Oct 22 00:04:16 is it possible to launch binaries from the menu? I thought you pretty much had to have SOME java in there Oct 22 00:04:23 also, there's no framebuffer access Oct 22 00:04:30 fadden: thanks Oct 22 00:04:36 vol: app binary is "app_process" Oct 22 00:04:44 orly? Oct 22 00:04:51 How is floating point performance on the G1? Any kind of benchmark like "Pentium 90" or ? Oct 22 00:04:53 we believe "the webkit issue" has been resolved by rewriting the webkit import to be based upon a nightly build tarball Oct 22 00:04:54 As in /system/bin/app_process Oct 22 00:05:09 tmccrary: floating point is done in software, so it's fairly miserable. Oct 22 00:05:11 fadden: is there any documentation you can point me towards? Oct 22 00:05:40 vol: not that I'm aware of -- native stuff wasn't officially supported, so it's not officially documented. Oct 22 00:05:43 However... Oct 22 00:05:46 yeah, that's what I figured Oct 22 00:06:00 "adb forward tcp:5039 tcp:5039" sets up port forwarding Oct 22 00:06:15 "adb shell gdbserver :5039 --attach " sets up the device side Oct 22 00:06:43 and, in theory, after you ". build/envsetup.sh && lunch 1", you can just "gdbclient" to kick things off. Oct 22 00:07:08 It's entirely possible none of this works right now, since it depends upon the existence of gdbserver on your device and some configuration stuff on the workstation side. Oct 22 00:07:12 But there's hope. :-) Oct 22 00:07:14 fadden: do you work for google and/or htc? Oct 22 00:07:47 vol: yes. Of course, my views are my own and don't necessarily represent thos of my employer, blah blah blah. Oct 22 00:08:05 I know, but we're trying to actually find an engineer to talk to us who isn't going to talk down to us and tell us to rewrite everything in java Oct 22 00:08:42 I've just spent several hours dipping in and just browsing the source code here and there before downloading it... it's simply beautiful. Oct 22 00:08:43 I do think Dalvik is wonderful, but I'm somewhat biased in that regard. Oct 22 00:08:44 fadden: doh, thanks for the info. Looks like software skinning for models is out :( Oct 22 00:08:50 oh, I do too :) Oct 22 00:09:00 I've found developing for it delightful, what little I've actually done Oct 22 00:09:20 however, my company has a pretty mature mobile app that we'd like to try and keep as intact as possible Oct 22 00:09:38 so if we can actually port it to android without spending 6 months rewriting the UI... Oct 22 00:09:47 * fadden drops a note on somebody about something Oct 22 00:09:55 xl0: Do you have everything building locally yet? Oct 22 00:10:21 vol: so spend all your time making a C to dalvik converter :) Oct 22 00:10:38 vol, support for native code is something that will happen hopefully later than sooner Oct 22 00:10:38 DannyB: there is a very painful, thedailywtf.com worthy story behind words like that. Oct 22 00:10:50 so the question is, can I write C for android devices yet? Oct 22 00:11:01 suffice to say my company has been soured on java for a very good reason. Oct 22 00:11:08 because it's java? Oct 22 00:11:09 however, because -all- of the frameworks are written in java, it will really only be useful for purely computational tasks Oct 22 00:11:14 ewon, not yet Oct 22 00:11:23 * ewon is a games dev, and hasn't written any java since college Oct 22 00:11:45 no, because we basically hired someone to try and port our C app to Java, and they did that by more or less copy/pasting everything and tweaking it until it compiled Oct 22 00:11:55 haha ha Oct 22 00:12:03 2 years later, a tremendous turd was still being polished before the plug was pulled Oct 22 00:12:04 to write an android app, you will need to have java code that is there to interact with the platform Oct 22 00:12:11 vol: I imagine you could replace the individual with a sufficiently motivated tool. Oct 22 00:12:19 wow, you sounds like a company with AMAZING management Oct 22 00:12:30 fadden: well, the individual was released Oct 22 00:12:32 back into the wild Oct 22 00:12:42 once it became apparent that he really wasn't cutting it Oct 22 00:12:49 heh Oct 22 00:12:53 Android has process isolation, so it shouldn't be too hard to support native code apps. Oct 22 00:12:58 yeah, that must have made it crystal clear: cover our ass and blame the tools Oct 22 00:13:05 It's what any good workman would do Oct 22 00:13:15 cakoose, that is certainly part of the design :) Oct 22 00:13:19 vol: catch and release eh Oct 22 00:14:32 6.9 million iPhones... Oct 22 00:14:40 in any event, we decided that rather than spend years trying to port our codebase, and have to deal with two seperate trunks, it's just simpler to keep one codebase that gets maintained Oct 22 00:15:08 the trunk works for WinCE, Symbian, Windows, Linux/Unix, why bother changing the language Oct 22 00:15:39 so, we want to create a port for android, except that we don't want to spend 6 months rewriting UI code and such, especially since we've made pretty heavy improvements to our UI in the last year or so Oct 22 00:15:55 vol: UI is framebuffer based? Oct 22 00:15:56 hackbod: Any reason why native code isn't supported yet? I guess binary compatibility is more painful with native code... Oct 22 00:15:56 it is unlikely you will b able to really write UI code from C/C++ in android son Oct 22 00:16:00 fadden: yes Oct 22 00:16:07 yeah, therein lies the problem. Oct 22 00:16:10 simply becaues the framework is all in java Oct 22 00:16:19 cakoose, yeah binary compatibility is the biggest issue Oct 22 00:16:36 the idea was that we either try and get framebuffer stuff working, or maybe draw to a canvas and pass it back to the java app Oct 22 00:16:42 our effort for 1.0 had to be entirely on the Java SDK, we didn't have time for anything else Oct 22 00:17:00 the company is just frankly too small to worry about making another codebase Oct 22 00:17:56 anyway, it'd be nice to have a java product, but that's frankly unlikely to happen Oct 22 00:17:58 vol: making a framebuffer UI render to something in java shoudn't be that hard Oct 22 00:18:11 DannyB: no, it shouldn't. Framerate may be an issue Oct 22 00:18:30 it's pretty well accelerated if you aren't doing wild math to make your ui :) Oct 22 00:18:37 er... Oct 22 00:18:40 * vol whistles Oct 22 00:18:47 it's not really wild Oct 22 00:18:54 but, it's not trivial Oct 22 00:19:11 So long as you don't use floating point or, well, divide integers, you're good. :-) Oct 22 00:19:13 anyway, fadden, thank you for the gdbserver suggestion Oct 22 00:19:36 I'm always happy to provide false hope. :-) Oct 22 00:19:55 so doing things like power of two divide optimizations probably make sense with android? Oct 22 00:20:20 tmccrary: I'm pretty sure javac will do those for you if you're dividing by a constant. Oct 22 00:20:53 Actually... maybe not. Oct 22 00:21:29 * enf is pretty sure it won't, since it doesn't work right on negative numbers Oct 22 00:21:42 Oh, right. Oct 22 00:21:46 we're currently planning porting our game engine over and retargeting our eclipse tools to support android Oct 22 00:21:59 So yes, divide-with-shift is a good plan. Oct 22 00:30:04 Are the contributor instructions on the website complete? I tried doing a "repo upload" and was asked for a password. I'm not sure what password it's asking for. Oct 22 00:31:02 cakoose: the password for your google account, whose email address matches the email address you configured when you ran "repo init" Oct 22 00:31:45 Oh wow. After I went to 'http://review.source.android.com/' and signed in, everything started working for me. Oct 22 00:32:27 spearce: The instructions should probably be updated to tell people to go to review.source.android.com. Oct 22 00:32:50 spearce: This also fixed my problem with not being able to sign the contributor agreement online. Oct 22 00:33:22 cakoose: noted. we'll try to get the documentation site clarified soon. Oct 22 00:36:20 * rwhitby works out how to git reset --hard HEAD in .repo/manifests to pick up the webkit fix ... Oct 22 00:36:29 OK, unboxing my phone. Problem #1 is that the phone has a non-standard interconnect (!@#!, but a flame war for a different day) and the charger in the box is a vanilla mini-USB plug that is worthless without an adapter. I can charge off a PC USB port for now, but has anyone else had this problem and managed to get a working charger? Oct 22 00:36:53 Huh? Oct 22 00:36:57 Huh? Oct 22 00:37:02 The charger plug doesn't fit the phone. Oct 22 00:37:10 Double-Huh? Oct 22 00:37:13 Turn it the other way? Seriously, it should fit. Oct 22 00:37:35 My wife is currently using a charger from a Motorola RAZR (long story). Oct 22 00:37:49 On a G1? It's a nonstandard plug... Oct 22 00:38:08 andyross: The port on the phone will accept mini-USB chargers Oct 22 00:38:10 andyross: it should work Oct 22 00:38:15 Think of it as USB++. It's got some additional wires and features, but plain old min-USB should work. Oct 22 00:38:42 ahaberlacho: is that the same as ++USB? Oct 22 00:38:57 depends when you read it Oct 22 00:39:03 gdsx : Depends on when you read the value. Oct 22 00:39:18 ahaberlacho: snap Oct 22 00:40:09 ahaberlacho: well, when should I use the USB++ adapter, and when should I use the ++USB one? I mean, an assembly line is sort of like a for loop. Which one do you think HTC is using? Oct 22 00:42:47 * rwhitby type "make" on the android source to see whether it will build without any errors. Oct 22 00:43:01 s/type/types/ Oct 22 00:43:17 spearce: thx for the webkit fix Oct 22 00:43:43 rwhitby: so that worked for you? Oct 22 00:44:11 On a multi-core machine, "make -jN" might be a good idea. Oct 22 00:44:14 spearce: repo sync completed, so I expect so Oct 22 00:44:18 (pick a nice value for N) Oct 22 00:44:41 * rwhitby only has a single 2.6G P4 to throw at it at the moment. Oct 22 00:44:46 rwhitby: good. repo sync has pretty decent error checking, so its either successful, or it dies with nasty messages Oct 22 00:45:18 build/core/find-jdk-tools-jar.sh: line 5: [: too many arguments Oct 22 00:45:18 build/core/host_java_library.mk:28: *** multiple target patterns. Stop. Oct 22 00:45:20 Hmm. Oct 22 00:45:35 * rwhitby goes Makefile spelunking Oct 22 00:46:21 aha, no error checking on a missing javac. Oct 22 00:46:50 Has any non-Google person been able to get 'repo upload' working? Oct 22 00:47:19 cakoose: xl0 submitted some patches Oct 22 00:47:56 (winning a place in history) Oct 22 00:48:24 * rwhitby has a patch ready for find-jdk-tools-jar.sh for a useful error message ... Oct 22 00:51:14 When I try "repo upload" I get a "Login failure" message. Oct 22 00:51:50 I'm able to browse the Gerrit site with that username/password, though. Oct 22 00:54:30 is it a googleapps/domains account? Oct 22 00:54:39 (not an @gmail.com account) Oct 22 00:56:33 rwhitby: http://source.android.com/known-issues now has your missing-javac note Oct 22 00:56:52 * rwhitby edits find-jdk-tools-jar.sh to cause a better error message:make: *** No rule to make target `Please-install-JDK-5.0,-update-12-or-higher,-which-you-can-download-from-java.sun.com', needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'. Stop. Oct 22 00:57:05 fadden: want the patch? Oct 22 00:57:54 * rwhitby works out how to contribute a patch ... Oct 22 00:59:41 Has the webkit onslaught subsided yet? Oct 22 00:59:48 yakischloba: there's a fix Oct 22 01:00:16 Ahh. I see in the topic now. My client cuts off after the first line by default ;) Oct 22 01:00:59 yakischloba: the topic needs to be updated, actually Oct 22 01:01:07 jbailey: *poke* Oct 22 01:02:08 yakischloba: if you look at the known-issues doc, though, it tells you how to get webkit now Oct 22 01:02:18 gdsx: yeah I saw, thanks. Oct 22 01:02:21 cool Oct 22 01:02:22 the topic might also mention that personal builds cant be flashed to the G1 right now Oct 22 01:02:28 rofl Oct 22 01:02:37 I don't know why everyone comes in here thinking that they can Oct 22 01:02:50 or even wondering Oct 22 01:03:28 so how many porting efforts have been announced? Oct 22 01:03:31 any of you guys familiar with maven? Oct 22 01:03:39 I'm trying to install five into the emulator Oct 22 01:03:41 http://pastebin.com/d6f169d9 Oct 22 01:03:49 I'm getting that error Oct 22 01:04:50 Five uses Maven to build?!? Oct 22 01:06:13 is JIT compilation something that is planned for the near future? Oct 22 01:06:15 tethridge: did you add it to tools/lib/framework.aidl ? Oct 22 01:06:27 "parcelable org.devtcg.five.service.CachePolicy; Oct 22 01:06:53 yes. let me verify it is still there Oct 22 01:07:18 does it need to be in a specific position? Oct 22 01:07:35 tethridge: what are you running into with installing it in the eumlator? Oct 22 01:07:52 check out my pastebin above Oct 22 01:07:52 tethridge: i added it to the end. Oct 22 01:07:53 i dont think order matters, mine is at the bottom Oct 22 01:08:00 mine was at the bottom Oct 22 01:08:27 one sec Oct 22 01:08:35 .i think this might be the issue i was getting before but im not sure. Oct 22 01:08:37 anyone had any success building on java 6? Oct 22 01:08:57 Java 6 should work -- we explicitly --target 1.5 in the build system. Oct 22 01:09:20 Java 6 works. I'm using it on Hardy. Oct 22 01:09:21 tethridge: what shell are you in? Oct 22 01:09:28 marcone: openjdk? Oct 22 01:09:29 bash Oct 22 01:09:34 I'm using ubuntu 8.04 Oct 22 01:09:45 ok, i think you have to have the ANDROID_SDK variable set in sh. Oct 22 01:09:48 try this. Oct 22 01:09:54 well.. go into sh. Oct 22 01:10:02 then do export ANDROID_SDK=... Oct 22 01:10:05 and try it again. Oct 22 01:10:10 You have to be careful with Java 6 though, since it differs slightly in the way @Override is handled. We've had a few build breakages because of that in the past. Oct 22 01:10:24 hi Dougie187. Pretty loco in here today :( Oct 22 01:10:25 swetland: (Sorry, afk) Yeah, it's a googleapps/domains account. Oct 22 01:10:27 Can anyone with a phone tell me whether you can use launch applications during an incoming phone call without unlocking the device? Oct 22 01:10:36 yakischloba: hey, yeah i know. source does that to people Oct 22 01:10:37 Dougie187: is this to get it to compile using OpenJDK? Oct 22 01:10:51 mattl: no? Oct 22 01:10:52 Dougie187: can't wait til it dies down (or I find that this becomes too much and leave) Oct 22 01:11:05 cakoose: swetland is offline right now. we know "repo upload" doesn't like a googleapps/domains account right now, so as a work-around until we get it fixed we are suggesting that people open a gmail.com address or use a non googleapps/domains account. Oct 22 01:11:17 its high on the priority list to work on this week Oct 22 01:11:18 yakischloba: it'll die down Oct 22 01:11:20 yakischloba: heh yeah, it will eventually die down. Inital buzz is everything. Remember back when the G1 was announced? Oct 22 01:11:32 Dougie187, ls $ANDROID_SDK shows the contents of the sdk directory Oct 22 01:11:37 yeah. Unfortunately a lot of those people stayed :/ Oct 22 01:11:44 tethridge: in sh or in bash? Oct 22 01:11:57 fadden: hm. make: *** No rule to make target `build/core/api/current.xml', needed by `out/target/common/obj/PACKAGING/checkapi-last-timestamp'. Stop. Oct 22 01:12:08 oh, let me go to sh Oct 22 01:12:12 I was still in bash Oct 22 01:12:24 spearce: Ah, ok. I can wait. Oct 22 01:12:29 tethridge: im also not sure this is your issue, thats just what i ran into. Oct 22 01:13:13 mattl: dunno Oct 22 01:13:17 yakischloba: true, but most of them left. and the ones who stayed are mostly quiet. heh Oct 22 01:13:32 Dougie187, I'm getting the same error Oct 22 01:13:58 Dougie187: bleh. we'll see. Isn't quite as homely as it used to be. Oct 22 01:14:32 tethridge: you still in sh? Oct 22 01:15:07 yes Oct 22 01:15:20 and your $ANDROID_SDK is set right? Oct 22 01:15:24 yes Oct 22 01:15:29 hmm. Oct 22 01:16:00 aidl works right? Oct 22 01:16:12 http://pastebin.com/d56e7af63 Oct 22 01:16:32 I'm not familiar with how to use aidl Oct 22 01:17:03 well you can just type it to see if it works. Oct 22 01:17:03 I've added the line to the bottom of the framework.aidl as the install docs state though Oct 22 01:17:17 can you post the last bit of that framework file? Oct 22 01:17:24 sure Oct 22 01:17:25 just the last couple lines. Oct 22 01:18:36 Dougie187, http://pastebin.com/d32bf086f Oct 22 01:19:39 what happens if you run the command from five-read-only instead of five-music? Oct 22 01:19:47 err. five-client Oct 22 01:21:46 it seems to be doing more Oct 22 01:21:57 is it still going? Oct 22 01:21:59 or did it break? Oct 22 01:22:00 yes Oct 22 01:22:20 it gave the same error Oct 22 01:22:24 let me pastebin Oct 22 01:22:27 ok Oct 22 01:22:56 and you did all the other stuff in his INSTALL right? Oct 22 01:22:59 http://pastebin.com/d4bbd12e3 Oct 22 01:23:03 yes Oct 22 01:23:13 I'm not completely clear on the stuff with masa and maven Oct 22 01:24:08 I downloaded masa-project-1.0 Oct 22 01:24:16 yeah, ionno. i just installed it the other day. Oct 22 01:24:39 then I ran the mvn install Oct 22 01:24:44 it said it was successful Oct 22 01:24:50 the long one? Oct 22 01:24:54 or just mvn install? Oct 22 01:25:01 the long one Oct 22 01:25:01 tethridge: success is relative ;o) Oct 22 01:25:06 tethridge: (ignore me :o) Oct 22 01:25:13 then I cd'ed into mas and ran mvn install Oct 22 01:25:23 gdsx, will do. :-) Oct 22 01:25:30 did you just check out his source? Oct 22 01:25:39 that said it was also successful Oct 22 01:26:27 I read the readme in masa and it said to run the install script included in the maven-android project Oct 22 01:26:32 I'm not sure where that script is Oct 22 01:26:33 yeah Oct 22 01:26:42 oh. did you check out the masa source? Oct 22 01:26:49 yes Oct 22 01:26:58 that readme is in the root dir Oct 22 01:27:00 then you go into masa-read-only and do ./install.sh Oct 22 01:27:19 http://code.google.com/p/masa/wiki/GettingStarted Oct 22 01:27:24 you wanna follow that until step 5 Oct 22 01:27:32 ok, maybe that is the problem Oct 22 01:27:38 I don't see install.sh Oct 22 01:27:42 just install.bat Oct 22 01:27:51 let me look over that wiki Oct 22 01:28:01 http://masa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk Oct 22 01:28:07 thats what you checked out right? Oct 22 01:28:18 I don't think so Oct 22 01:28:28 http://masa.googlecode.com/svn/tags/masa-project-1.0/ Oct 22 01:28:31 ok, well i think thats what yo uwant. Oct 22 01:28:39 let me do that Oct 22 01:28:41 svn checkout http://masa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ masa-read-only Oct 22 01:28:42 here Oct 22 01:29:26 do I need to run the install as root? Oct 22 01:29:39 no Oct 22 01:29:42 just ./install.sh Oct 22 01:29:44 then mvn install Oct 22 01:30:37 ok, it says build successful Oct 22 01:30:41 ok. Oct 22 01:30:45 then go into five. Oct 22 01:31:05 then run your emulator Oct 22 01:31:16 and do the mvn -Dmasa.debug=true install Oct 22 01:31:53 Anyone know how to change the email address given to repo init ? Oct 22 01:32:00 damn. same error Oct 22 01:33:45 MojoExecutionException. What a great exception Oct 22 01:33:57 oh noes, my mojo Oct 22 01:34:28 sorry tethridge my comp froze. Oct 22 01:34:30 did that work? Oct 22 01:34:37 hey you aren't Dougie187 Oct 22 01:34:42 yeah i know.. Oct 22 01:34:45 nope, same error Oct 22 01:34:45 :) Oct 22 01:34:50 what's up tethridge Oct 22 01:34:56 bust. Oct 22 01:34:57 nothing much. u? Oct 22 01:35:02 nada Oct 22 01:35:05 hes trying to get five compiled michaelnovakjr Oct 22 01:35:09 give him a hand. Oct 22 01:35:11 im going to bed Oct 22 01:35:16 hm, what error are you getting? Oct 22 01:35:26 ill talk to you guys later. Oct 22 01:35:29 have a good night. Oct 22 01:35:31 good luck tethridge Oct 22 01:35:32 I've got the server working, but I'm getting a mojo error. Let me pastebin Oct 22 01:35:34 thanks Oct 22 01:35:39 np Oct 22 01:35:40 see ya Oct 22 01:35:50 sure Oct 22 01:36:03 http://pastebin.com/d21c4a9d6 Oct 22 01:37:52 michaelnovakjr, what do you think is wrong? Oct 22 01:38:30 looking at it now Oct 22 01:39:33 i'm rebuilding my copy Oct 22 01:39:46 Stopped by a T-Mobile store today and talked to a manager. Said he's gotten little to no interest in the G1 so far. Oct 22 01:40:11 unix_infidel, where is that at? Oct 22 01:40:17 texas. Oct 22 01:40:35 do you guys have 3g in your market? Oct 22 01:40:52 damn, the sabres just be the bruins Oct 22 01:40:54 tethridge: you kiddin' me. AT&T has it's headquarters here. Oct 22 01:41:10 T-Mobile made a huge 3G push here to compete. Oct 22 01:41:18 well, tmo doesn't have a lot of 3g areas Oct 22 01:41:27 I'm surprised that they don't have 3g in the raleigh, nc area Oct 22 01:41:44 tethridge: check out 3G coverage in texas, it's in virtually every major city. Oct 22 01:41:52 how good is the G1 wihtout 3G, Oct 22 01:42:08 soduko, it will work at edge speeds Oct 22 01:42:15 soduko: it works pretty well, just slow Oct 22 01:42:48 of course, it still does wifi Oct 22 01:42:52 I hope somebody comes out with an updated browser. Maybe opera will release a version for android Oct 22 01:42:59 there is no 3G in my area, and teh signal strength test based on zipcode shows avg of 2 bars Oct 22 01:43:09 without 3G any data phone kinda sucks Oct 22 01:43:15 I can't stand the zoomed in by default. I really wish it would zoom out when it initially loads the page Oct 22 01:43:18 try using the iPhone without 3G, its slow as hell Oct 22 01:43:37 michaelnovakjr: most iPhone users are non 3G users. Oct 22 01:43:50 btw, iPhone 3G sales this quarter are 6.9 million Oct 22 01:44:03 it's slow. My buddy has an iPhone and for most things it takes forever Oct 22 01:44:08 for those of you using Maps with your app, be advised: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-android-maps-api-terms-of-service.html Oct 22 01:44:14 he has the non-3g version Oct 22 01:44:36 yea Oct 22 01:44:49 i do most without 3G, but some things like last.fm are really only good on 3G Oct 22 01:44:55 which is really fast Oct 22 01:45:11 tethridge: did you run the mvn install first? Oct 22 01:45:49 yes. I did the long mvn install string from the install file and then I did it for the masa source Oct 22 01:46:21 of course 3G is faster and nice to have. But remember, the iPhone was hailed as the most innovative device of the 21st century (so far) without 3G speeds. Oct 22 01:46:33 * rwhitby finds ~/.gerrit_cookies is a good file to remove if you want to change the email you use for repo upload. The email itself is in ~/.gitconfig as normal. Oct 22 01:46:59 yea, git controls the email and name Oct 22 01:47:01 its standard Oct 22 01:47:14 you should be able to run the git command to update it Oct 22 01:47:24 tethridge: do you have an emulator running? Oct 22 01:47:29 yes Oct 22 01:47:39 I ran it from the command line using "emulator" Oct 22 01:47:46 fadden: I can't seem to repo upload, even typing I AGREE in to http://review.source.android.com/hello for two different non-google-apps-for-domains addresses (one of which is a @gmail.com address) Oct 22 01:48:04 ok, bare with me, i have to update all my stuff, i haven't been working from this machine Oct 22 01:48:09 i want to see if i can reproduce this Oct 22 01:48:14 fadden: is this a known problem? I only saw above a problem for google apps for domains addresses Oct 22 01:48:17 i am at a new revision than before Oct 22 01:48:23 ok Oct 22 01:48:31 I'll go get another beer. :-) Oct 22 01:48:37 tethridge: contributing code? Oct 22 01:49:30 incidentally, is this a good place to recruit developers for a Free[ libre] app ? Oct 22 01:49:34 rwhitby: I don't know. One of the advocates (jasonchen) or gitophiles (spearce) may know. Oct 22 01:49:59 soduko: what kind of app? Oct 22 01:50:33 holy crap /me watches server melt Oct 22 01:50:43 what server? Oct 22 01:50:44 fadden: here is the patch: http://pastebin.ca/1233389 Oct 22 01:51:26 CBT, computer based training.. think of it as impress+quiz at its core. the final app has many more uses. but this is the core Oct 22 01:51:42 michaelnovakjr, maybe. I have a huge music collection. 125GB. I told jasta I would help test. Oct 22 01:52:03 cool, i'm in the process of porting the server over to windows Oct 22 01:52:12 and then mac Oct 22 01:52:19 Hi, anybody else getting "java.lang.RuntimeException: Couldn't find doclet DroidDoc" when compiling the framework docs? Oct 22 01:52:23 I may make some changes so that it doesn't require the gui Oct 22 01:52:25 rwhitby: known problem Oct 22 01:52:34 tethridge: the server? Oct 22 01:52:38 yes Oct 22 01:52:45 impress is the Open Office equivalent of PowerPoint.. just in case it needs to be told Oct 22 01:52:47 jasta said it would require some minor changes Oct 22 01:52:51 yrea Oct 22 01:52:53 rwhitby: it needs to go through the machinery. If the machinery isn't working we need to fix that first. Oct 22 01:52:56 nothing overkill Oct 22 01:52:58 gdsx: yes, I know it's a known problem - it's attributed to me on the known problems page. This is a patch to fix the known problem. Oct 22 01:53:01 michaelnovakjr: interested? Oct 22 01:53:02 I don't have X installed on my server Oct 22 01:53:07 tethridge: is that so you can start it from the command line? Oct 22 01:53:11 I'll ping somebody. Oct 22 01:53:12 fadden: fair enough Oct 22 01:53:15 rwhitby: aah, oops :o) Oct 22 01:53:16 yes Oct 22 01:53:42 tethridge: interesting, not a bad idea Oct 22 01:53:53 soduko: don't really have too much time Oct 22 01:53:59 soduko: working on a few projects Oct 22 01:54:02 :)thanks Oct 22 01:54:29 fadden: the email address I am using for repo upload is in the signed-off-by in the patch if that helps track down the problem. Oct 22 01:54:51 and the @gmail.com account can be guessed from my first and last name with a dot between. Oct 22 01:54:59 both fail on repo upload. Oct 22 01:55:38 ok Oct 22 01:57:23 jasonchen: I can't create a navigation system using the Maps API? Oct 22 01:58:12 jasonchen: but if I create a 'friend finder' application, can I have this 'friend finder' help me get to the location of the friend? Oct 22 01:58:59 is the Android Market open to developers for uploading apps ? Oct 22 02:00:49 .... so.. what was the first commit? :) Oct 22 02:01:24 /* ZOMFG Phonez!!!!!11 */ Oct 22 02:01:40 typo Oct 22 02:01:41 waldo_: #include fixes Oct 22 02:01:43 in a comment Oct 22 02:01:48 :) Oct 22 02:01:52 ah... cool Oct 22 02:01:59 just kidding Oct 22 02:02:01 didn't read the log Oct 22 02:02:06 spelling error? ;) Oct 22 02:05:32 waldo_: no. #include fixes Oct 22 02:05:40 waldo_: this was one of them: http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/external/srec.git;a=commitdiff;h=05dfb904c5be6385a3a6f8a271659d68341d267f Oct 22 02:05:43 gdsx yeah yeah I got it I was joking Oct 22 02:06:46 ah this must've come out of people having problems compiling in different OSes huh Oct 22 02:09:22 Wooo compiling 2gb Oct 22 02:09:36 anyone else finding that they keep on hitting the end button to quit an application? Oct 22 02:10:11 anybody want to get out of their sprint contract? http://gizmodo.com/5066750/sprint-finally-pro+rating-early-termination-fees Oct 22 02:10:16 nice Oct 22 02:14:06 mine expired in july :) :) :) Oct 22 02:14:26 I don't hate sprint though, if they had a Android variant I'd stay with them Oct 22 02:14:36 tmc: isn't that in the works? Oct 22 02:14:51 i was hoping some might have some insight into that very topic Oct 22 02:15:22 tmccrary: I like my sprint contract :) Oct 22 02:15:29 The only thing I've found out is that they're part of the android industry group Oct 22 02:15:44 but then again, pretty much every company in technology is Oct 22 02:15:46 tmccrary: rumor has it there will be one by Q1 of next year? I think? Oct 22 02:15:57 yeah I read that, but can't find anything to back it up Oct 22 02:16:09 So I'm learning everything I can here about Android... I don't see anything about cron... if you wanted to write an alarm clock or have Activities launch/killed/etc. at a particular time... how's that done? Oct 22 02:16:09 it would kind of suck to switch and then a month later have sprint come up with something Oct 22 02:16:18 especially since sprint has the better network, at least for my area Oct 22 02:16:34 tmccrary: me too. That and SERO is why I'm with them :) Oct 22 02:16:42 out here its verizon, tmob, att Oct 22 02:17:02 in the detroit area, it's verizon and sprint Oct 22 02:17:15 verizon is atrocious, sprint is okay though Oct 22 02:17:31 like all mobile phone companies, they are fucking terrible Oct 22 02:17:35 HEh. Oct 22 02:17:41 I saw on engadet that they are supposed to have an android phone out by the end of 2008 Oct 22 02:17:42 All phone companies suck, some just suck less. Oct 22 02:17:45 yep Oct 22 02:17:59 verizon even works underground on metro here (DC) got an exclusive a LONG time ago and kept it Oct 22 02:18:04 you basically pick the best of the worst Oct 22 02:18:17 http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/17/t-mobile-g1-said-to-be-landing-october-17th-sprint-android-phon/ Oct 22 02:18:37 tethridge: they don't really say where they got that though Oct 22 02:18:40 Any news on WebKit? Oct 22 02:19:24 I know Oct 22 02:19:29 I'm hoping Oct 22 02:19:36 ttuttle: I got farther with the terminal-based ssh client Oct 22 02:19:41 I'm just gonna bite the bullet and switch Oct 22 02:19:48 if I have to pay a termination fee later, so be it Oct 22 02:19:48 ttuttle: need to rebuild the terminal app with Internet permission, which I can actually do now that I have the source :) Oct 22 02:19:59 benley: when you do post it up Oct 22 02:20:01 benley: Nice. Oct 22 02:20:03 i'll host if you need :) Oct 22 02:20:13 Disconnect: I'm sure he can host it. Oct 22 02:20:18 cool, a terminal, that's first on my list when I get my G1 :) Oct 22 02:20:25 is there an ssh implementation for android? Oct 22 02:20:31 I guess I should google first Oct 22 02:20:39 yes Oct 22 02:20:41 benley: So are you just installing dropbear? Oct 22 02:20:46 they included openssh Oct 22 02:20:58 hell yes Oct 22 02:21:04 my beat is correct Oct 22 02:21:25 Socceroos: sorry, just looking at my lastlog--what did you want to know? Oct 22 02:22:18 benley: Or are you writing an ssh implementation for Java? Oct 22 02:22:32 ttuttle: just installing dropbear Oct 22 02:22:48 benley: will this work for everyone? Oct 22 02:22:54 benley: like can you make an apk? Oct 22 02:23:05 ttuttle: I doubt it, since it relies on native code Oct 22 02:23:08 benley: Awww. Oct 22 02:23:14 ttuttle: i.e. you'll have to have an unlocked bootloader Oct 22 02:23:14 benley: Someone needs to write a really good Java SSH client. Oct 22 02:23:18 benley: /me <3 his G1. Oct 22 02:23:27 benley: Deep in my heart, I hope someone figures out how to unlock them. Oct 22 02:23:28 ttuttle: or at least the ability to write arbitrary executables to /data, which should suffice Oct 22 02:23:39 ttuttle: me too :) Oct 22 02:23:48 Tmobile is the least evil imo. Oct 22 02:24:04 waldo_: Yeah. Worst network on average though. Oct 22 02:24:13 they unlock your phones, they weren't involved in that screwed up FISA domestic spying stuff like AT&T was Oct 22 02:24:26 ttuttle well they're relatively new. Oct 22 02:24:29 waldo_: Yeah. Oct 22 02:24:38 * yakischloba is glad to live in metro seattle where service should be good Oct 22 02:24:41 they have GREAT customer service too Oct 22 02:24:46 benley: uhh... what? Oct 22 02:24:59 and hell, they're also debuting the g1! Oct 22 02:25:11 so no cron on android huh? Oct 22 02:25:21 hey guys, it is possible to upload native binaries or libraries to android and write a client that use it from the UI? Oct 22 02:25:41 tmccrary-- you asked about ssh-- there is definitely an ssh client... runs fine on the emluator.. let me find the link Oct 22 02:25:43 solca: not yet; folks are actively working on a native app development kit Oct 22 02:25:46 or everything has to be bytecodes Oct 22 02:25:50 java Oct 22 02:25:53 wait swajak-- openssh is built-in? Oct 22 02:26:28 gdsx: but what about when you need some functionality that is not present in the SDK? Oct 22 02:26:29 developers mentioned it in video... probably not built-in, they took from it, at least Oct 22 02:26:32 benley: native code doesn't have anything to do with the bootloader. you basically install it like any other app (which isn't actually supported right now, since there's as yet no good way to figure out what hardware a native package is for) Oct 22 02:26:48 solca: I'm confused Oct 22 02:27:01 gdsx: oh that's it? I thought there wasn't a good way to get a binary someplace you can execute it without being root. Oct 22 02:27:02 solca: do you have a more specific example of what you mean? Oct 22 02:27:04 swajak I used the one called "Connectbot" Oct 22 02:27:06 gdsx: ok, I can do this then :) Oct 22 02:27:18 so yeah, I can whip up an apk Oct 22 02:27:19 benley: again, it's not supported, yet, but it should work Oct 22 02:27:22 youtube videos only play widesreen? Oct 22 02:27:36 unix_infidel: if you mean "landscape", then yes Oct 22 02:27:43 swajak: check out http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/ -- the code runs fine in the emulator, but it does not support sshkeys Oct 22 02:28:03 gdsx: lets say that I want to write a aircrack-ng client, I need the binaries that run on bare metal but with a nice gui Oct 22 02:28:10 connectbot is pretty weak right now - if you slide the screen closed, it drops your connection Oct 22 02:28:12 i don't like this "lip". makes it hard to type Oct 22 02:28:27 benley is there an alternative? Oct 22 02:28:28 obviously the binaries have to put the wifi in monitor mode Oct 22 02:28:43 benley I need sshkeys anyway... i hate passwords blah Oct 22 02:28:44 waldo_: not that I know of, aside from my in-progress dropbear ssh hack Oct 22 02:29:03 walkdo oops, openssl was the one i heard. my bad. Oct 22 02:29:08 waldo_* Oct 22 02:29:19 solca: basically, one problem (there are likely others I'm not aware of) is that currently, there's no way to tell which device(s) a native app supports Oct 22 02:29:29 benley dropbear is in c, ya? Oct 22 02:29:35 waldo_: yes Oct 22 02:29:51 benley so what UI does it run in? Oct 22 02:29:59 waldo_: the terminal client from ze dev tools Oct 22 02:30:04 solca: so it should work, as long as you can get it to work. It is, however, not supported right now, and future changes may break progress that you make working on native stuff right now Oct 22 02:30:19 waldo_: I just need to get the terminal app rebuilt with "Internet" permissions, which it normally lacks Oct 22 02:30:29 benley I didn't realize there was a terminal client... shows how much I've paid attention... Oct 22 02:30:39 connectbot never prompts me for password :( Oct 22 02:30:46 benley: regular ssh works for me with ze dev tools. Oct 22 02:30:53 gdsx: but if I used armv4 that should not break future devices (as long as they are arm) Oct 22 02:31:28 ttuttle: you are clearly not running the normal user image :-P Oct 22 02:31:41 benley: Nope. San sent me an eng build ;-) Oct 22 02:31:46 ttuttle: webkit has been fixed in the manifest Oct 22 02:31:48 ttuttle: yeah, that's where I took the ssh binary Oct 22 02:32:02 rwhitby: Yay. Can you tell me the new URL or whatever? Oct 22 02:32:09 solca: but how is anything to know that you've only used armv4 instructions? Oct 22 02:32:28 ttuttle: repo sync should get an updated manifest and then use a tarball mirror Oct 22 02:32:29 (and if the connectbot author is looking, you prolly already noticed that the 'cancel' and 'save' edit host buttons are offscreen in landscape mode) Oct 22 02:32:53 or go into .repo/manifests and "git pull" Oct 22 02:33:00 benley: see other irc Oct 22 02:33:11 ttuttle: http://source.android.com/known-issues Oct 22 02:33:25 * benley suspects he's going to be scolded now Oct 22 02:33:26 what is "ze dev tools"? Oct 22 02:33:47 benley: agreed. stop teasing us with the shit only you guys have ;) Oct 22 02:34:15 gdsx: if my app targets arv4 that would be safe, I think even armv6 is the minimum for android Oct 22 02:34:28 only like four references to "ze dev tools" on google.. hmm Oct 22 02:34:28 average compile time for the 2gb source, anyone? Oct 22 02:34:33 yakischloba: heh, they've been teasing us for about 6 months now :-P Oct 22 02:34:43 gdsx: but yeah I see the point, there is now way to tell Oct 22 02:35:28 anyone? ze dev tools? huh? Oct 22 02:36:26 solca: ::nod:: Oct 22 02:36:29 waldo_: its probably "the dev tools" Oct 22 02:36:42 solca: there are folks working on the problem, though Oct 22 02:36:55 bedtime out here tho, PT at ungodly oclock. ttyl! Oct 22 02:37:09 disconnect: if that's the case.. I don't see any standalone terminal in the sdk tools directory... hmmm... I know the emulator has some kind of console output.... but you couldn't run SSH in there... Oct 22 02:37:59 gdsx: excellent! hopefully their solution will be blessed by google though Oct 22 02:38:11 solca: no, by "folks" I mean "folks on the team" Oct 22 02:38:52 gdsx: folks in the upstream android team? Oct 22 02:39:36 how do i update repo? I get a message "A new version of repo is available" on repo sync. Oct 22 02:40:03 hmm Oct 22 02:40:50 solca: yes, Google engineers Oct 22 02:41:05 ralpht: cp .repo/repo/repo ~/path/to/repo Oct 22 02:51:17 gdsx: wasn't it, but cd .repo/repo; git pull seemed to update repo (thought i'd tried that...) Oct 22 02:52:13 ralpht: hmm... it should auto-update itself when you do `repo sync` Oct 22 02:52:49 gdsx: i may have had a change on one of its files (i modified one just now trying to fix it and then checked it out again -- but i thought i did repo sync before then...). Oct 22 02:53:00 ::shrug:: Oct 22 02:53:08 anyway, I'm off. good luck Oct 22 02:53:18 ralpht: git reset --hard HEAD in the right repo can fix that Oct 22 02:54:45 rwhitby: thanks, i'm learning git today it seems :). Oct 22 02:54:49 romainguy: you around? ;) Oct 22 02:55:25 ralpht: yes, it will be interesting to see the effect Android has on git developer skills Oct 22 02:56:10 jham: Yes, it builds fine now. Oct 22 02:56:20 rwhitby: it's something i've always meant to look at, but never had the motivation to do until today. Oct 22 02:59:02 git developer skills? Oct 22 02:59:46 ya like nunchuck skills Oct 22 02:59:51 also, Oct 22 02:59:52 * benley sleeps **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 22 02:59:57 2008