**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 23 02:59:57 2008 Oct 23 03:00:20 there is a "messages" app Oct 23 03:00:25 but no email app Oct 23 03:00:45 are they the same? Oct 23 03:03:50 scary. Oct 23 03:04:06 so can you disable killswitch? Oct 23 03:04:08 whoops. Oct 23 03:04:27 is the Market app going to be open sourced? Oct 23 03:04:40 assuming not, but wondering what the official answer is Oct 23 03:04:42 But that is what I need access too Oct 23 03:04:53 I need access to my external memory card Oct 23 03:05:18 I need to be able to send documents via email and things Oct 23 03:05:29 RyeBrye: android.kernel.org Oct 23 03:05:47 RyeBrye: err... I might be wrong Oct 23 03:06:46 RyeBrye: what if you do `rm -rf .repo` and then try again? Oct 23 03:07:02 RyeBrye, try running the init again ... do you get the same error? Oct 23 03:07:14 yes ... gdsx has a better suggestion Oct 23 03:08:01 anyone else have problems with repo sync ... i had to try it more than once :-) Oct 23 03:08:14 ? Oct 23 03:09:38 how long's it supposed to take to get Android sources for the first time? Oct 23 03:09:56 it took me over an hour Oct 23 03:10:06 I'm gettin' there Oct 23 03:10:14 i did not time it Oct 23 03:10:22 it a _lotta_ stuff Oct 23 03:10:25 I think I'll just sleep on it :P Oct 23 03:10:26 delinka: it's O(2GB) Oct 23 03:10:33 heh Oct 23 03:10:38 a whole linux kernel ... hmm Oct 23 03:11:09 * delinka plugs in DSL numbers, subtracts wife's torrenting ... carry the 17 ... Oct 23 03:11:16 he he Oct 23 03:11:30 $ du -s -k mydroid/ Oct 23 03:11:31 4056680 mydroid/ Oct 23 03:11:40 that's after a make, though Oct 23 03:11:40 woa a wife who torrents... Oct 23 03:11:56 * delinka is lazy ... -h instead of -k ? :-) Oct 23 03:12:21 $ du -s -h mydroid/ Oct 23 03:12:21 3.9G mydroid/ Oct 23 03:12:29 thx Oct 23 03:12:33 she's my lil pirate ;-) Oct 23 03:12:38 again that's after the make Oct 23 03:12:52 which ... on my sad little box ... took about 35 minutes Oct 23 03:13:09 I think I'll time the make Oct 23 03:13:23 downloaded! 1.5GB Oct 23 03:13:29 gj Oct 23 03:13:42 Hey guys, how the hell do I CLOSE running programs? Oct 23 03:13:52 pfft - forget the case-sensitive filesystem ... tomorrow I guess Oct 23 03:14:24 AlekseyKorzun, Im not sure but I think just going back to home shuts them off Oct 23 03:14:33 or is there a way to close programs? Oct 23 03:14:42 No, when I use task thing it shows EVERYTHING is running Oct 23 03:14:49 I tried doing just that it still in task lisk Oct 23 03:14:56 which is... kinda crazy Oct 23 03:15:52 hm Oct 23 03:16:02 anyone know how to exit apps, Oct 23 03:16:03 http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=87&message.id=4858&query.id=19463#M4858 Oct 23 03:16:16 "As of right now, you can't "Close" any apps. The only things you can close are web windows. The G1 automatically keeps 6 programs opened pretty much all the time unless you haven't opened that many since you booted the phone up. " Oct 23 03:16:19 ..meh FAIL Oct 23 03:16:41 AlekseyKorzun: switch to the program and then hit the back button until you get to the home screen Oct 23 03:16:44 holy thats a major flaw Oct 23 03:16:54 gdsx, that doesnt work mate Oct 23 03:16:58 it still remains running Oct 23 03:17:07 well, it'll be GCed if needed Oct 23 03:17:28 What's GCed? Oct 23 03:17:35 garbage-collected Oct 23 03:18:35 where is that task thing at? Oct 23 03:18:53 AlekseyKorzun: if you want to understand more of what's going on, do `out/host/linux-x86/bin/adb logcat` Oct 23 03:19:01 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:26:38) Oct 23 03:19:03 anyone using slidme already ? Oct 23 03:19:13 whats slideme Oct 23 03:19:35 gdsx, question Oct 23 03:19:39 .. is there SSH client Oct 23 03:19:40 :P Oct 23 03:19:43 and IRC Oct 23 03:19:45 no Oct 23 03:19:47 not yet Oct 23 03:20:42 :'( Oct 23 03:21:02 AlekseyKorzun, where is that task thing located, I cant seem to find it anymore Oct 23 03:21:16 android market Oct 23 03:21:21 oh Oct 23 03:21:21 apps->tools Oct 23 03:21:23 I don't see how someone could stand IRC on such a tiny screen Oct 23 03:21:32 :) I remmber seeing it, I didnt dl it Oct 23 03:21:40 i standed IRC on shittier screens :) Oct 23 03:21:41 IRC = IRC Oct 23 03:22:04 After_Math: IRC tends to be high-volume Oct 23 03:22:23 scrollback :) Oct 23 03:22:43 AlekseyKorzun: yes, but what's the use if you're constantly looking at scrollback? Oct 23 03:23:20 is there an offline webpage viewer? Oct 23 03:23:29 gdsx, not sure what your argument is. I used IRC on winmobile alot in past on tiny screens, can't see Android being much different Oct 23 03:23:51 AlekseyKorzun: my point is that I don't see how you could stand IRC on _any_ phone Oct 23 03:23:57 Well I do :) Oct 23 03:24:00 I certainly wouldn't be able to :o) Oct 23 03:24:08 people irc from iphones, n8xx tablets Oct 23 03:24:10 i'm ircing from Dash right now Oct 23 03:24:14 ho--ho Oct 23 03:24:16 people are crazy and/or fast thumb typists Oct 23 03:24:24 * AlekseyKorzun is lying Oct 23 03:24:24 :P Oct 23 03:24:51 oh by the way, is there no on screen keyboard? Oct 23 03:24:55 is there an ebook reader yet? Oct 23 03:24:58 …‧—‧ Oct 23 03:24:59 no, no onscreen keyboard. Oct 23 03:25:05 for all you non-unicode folks :o) Oct 23 03:25:10 AlekseyKorzun: not yet; it's in the works Oct 23 03:25:13 is there a faq yet ? :] Oct 23 03:26:01 hmm Oct 23 03:26:14 gdsx, i assume future updates will be a breath on platform and FREE Oct 23 03:27:04 AlekseyKorzun: "breath"? Oct 23 03:27:17 you'll get a taste tomorrow Oct 23 03:27:17 Uncomplicated/require full OS flush Oct 23 03:27:35 Tommorows update is nothing major, Amazon MP3? Oct 23 03:27:39 Blah Oct 23 03:28:10 has everyone seen the g1 rap song? Oct 23 03:28:19 i clicked on it expecting it to be incredibly lame.. and its actually awesome Oct 23 03:28:27 url? Oct 23 03:28:30 http://phandroid.com/2008/10/20/android-rap-song-g1-love-video/ Oct 23 03:28:53 has lyrics on the page too ;) Oct 23 03:29:11 they should just put that on TV as the ad Oct 23 03:29:38 i'd be very interested to get the opinion of non techies who dont know a thing about android.. because its incredibly effective at getting the message accross Oct 23 03:30:01 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 23 03:30:22 waldo_: could you turn off your away announcer, please? Oct 23 03:30:49 hrm. Oct 23 03:31:26 called tmobile and the said my web may not be working because it can take up to 48 hours for my account activation to be complete Oct 23 03:31:53 wastrel - can you call and such without the data plan being active? Oct 23 03:31:58 wastrel, when did u get it Oct 23 03:32:02 this morning. Oct 23 03:32:07 hm what location Oct 23 03:32:14 my worked about a hour after i got it Oct 23 03:32:19 i can take & make voice calls, some data works. Oct 23 03:32:25 gmail works Oct 23 03:32:44 Does wifi work without the data plan activated? I'm in a non 3G area - so I'm not sure if I even want to sign up for the data plan... Oct 23 03:32:56 RyeBrye, you need to Oct 23 03:33:09 I had to order if off the web, and when I ordered it, they didn't make me activate the data plan. They just said "be sure to activate the data plan when oyu get it to get the full G1 effect" or something Oct 23 03:33:09 RyeBrye, and it should, theres a built in wifi card Oct 23 03:33:23 i think wifi should work without a data plan Oct 23 03:33:38 RyeBrye, from what Ive heard you cant activate it without getting the data plan Oct 23 03:34:01 What part of it needs to be activated? I already have a SIM Oct 23 03:34:06 Are there any projects working on any console emulators for android? Oct 23 03:34:55 RyeBrye, not sure, before I could even access the phone, you have to put in your gmail account, maybe at some point form there it checks to see if you have the data plan, and I dont think you can use the gmail without the plan Oct 23 03:35:05 Hmm... Interesting. Oct 23 03:35:18 RyeBrye, no point to get the phone without the plan though Oct 23 03:35:35 After_Math - I have wireless everywhere I go, and EDGE chaffes my balls Oct 23 03:35:43 lol Oct 23 03:35:52 but yeah, I'll probably get the data plan anyway Oct 23 03:35:53 you could get the monthly data plan and just cancel after the first month (maybe) Oct 23 03:36:10 Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the data plan is a monthly add-on - it usually has been on every other device I own Oct 23 03:36:23 wastrel, Ya, theres going to be a lot of unknowns for now untill there is some tried and true Oct 23 03:36:38 this isnt any other device though Oct 23 03:36:43 true Oct 23 03:36:55 If I get them to unlock it, I can reflash the whole OS with a new one I build, can't I? Oct 23 03:37:32 I think I remember someone saying that unless the phone was unlocked, I couldn't reflash the OS Oct 23 03:38:10 not sure Oct 23 03:38:11 I've been with T-Mobile for 5 or 6 years and never missed a payment... etc. and haven't unlocked a phone in a couple of years with them so it shouldn't be a big deal to get them to give me the unlock code, from what I hear Oct 23 03:38:16 but im sure that would work Oct 23 03:38:30 I believe they have to Oct 23 03:38:33 after 3 months Oct 23 03:38:55 After_Math: you're a new tmobile customer? Oct 23 03:38:58 I think it's just 3 months per unlock code - so I should be able to get one right away since I've been with them so long Oct 23 03:39:06 anyone here gotten an unlock code yet? Oct 23 03:39:07 wastrel, nope, been with them since 04 Oct 23 03:39:16 After_Math: but you just added on the data plan Oct 23 03:39:22 wastrel, yes Oct 23 03:39:37 wastrel, I used to have one for my berry though Oct 23 03:39:39 meh. i want web to work Oct 23 03:39:48 ah Oct 23 03:39:50 :) Oct 23 03:39:52 its so fast Oct 23 03:39:57 at least where I am Oct 23 03:39:57 For a while, T-zones was the best with blackberrys Oct 23 03:39:58 anyone else have problems with eclipse crashing? Oct 23 03:40:07 it doesn't work on edge or 3g Oct 23 03:40:21 until they started locking down ports - the $5.99 T-zones was just as good as the $20+ blackberry plan Oct 23 03:40:31 RyeBrye, shoot, I used to have my razor give me internet to my laptop from that wap thing, or that tzone network for 5 bucks :) Oct 23 03:40:40 still is in most areas Oct 23 03:40:50 pfft1, how is it crashing Oct 23 03:41:03 when I run the simulator Oct 23 03:41:04 yeah - I tethered with the WAP for a while too Oct 23 03:41:21 pfft1, did you download it from the website? or form a package manager? Oct 23 03:41:38 Actually... I used to tether a Sony Clie to my SE T610 via bluetooth and browse the web to find geocaches while I used another handheld GPS unit Oct 23 03:41:49 having all 3 functions in one device will be an improvement Oct 23 03:41:50 :) Oct 23 03:41:50 from the website Oct 23 03:42:05 After_Math: from the eclipse website Oct 23 03:42:08 pfft1, so Eclipse is crashing the simulator? or when you run the simulator it is crashing? Oct 23 03:42:11 Does the GPS on the G1's work better than the iPhone at least? Oct 23 03:42:27 After_Math: when I run the simulator it is crashing Oct 23 03:42:37 I kept asking before release day if I could use a bluetooth GPS with it likeyou can on just about any Windows Mobile or Symbian device Oct 23 03:42:49 After_Math: I should say ... when I debug as Android application with an app Oct 23 03:43:00 After_Math: it crashes Oct 23 03:43:11 te gps on iphone is emulated Oct 23 03:43:22 On the 3G's even? Oct 23 03:43:24 pfft1,hmm have you checked the net for bugs? you might want to ask in #eclipse Oct 23 03:43:24 damn tmobile 3g kinda sucks Oct 23 03:43:27 I thought it had an AGPS chip in it Oct 23 03:43:29 After_Math: it crashes before the sim window shows up Oct 23 03:43:38 yes even 3g Oct 23 03:43:44 but hearing that it's all simulated doesn't surprise me - considering how badly the GPS on it sucks Oct 23 03:43:48 After_Math: hmm ok ... Oct 23 03:43:55 the G1 isn't simulated - it listens to actual satellites, right? Oct 23 03:44:28 emulated and yes so does iphones, just means its not real gps hardware Oct 23 03:44:29 pfft1, start the simulator first Oct 23 03:45:14 After_Math: how do i do that :-) Oct 23 03:45:15 pfft1, do you have the simulator running before you debug or run the app? Oct 23 03:45:24 pfft1, hehe, you have the sdk right? Oct 23 03:45:39 uh yes Oct 23 03:45:39 So any chance that the G1 will work with an external bluetooth gps unit, or am I going to have to start 'contributing'? Oct 23 03:45:45 i've only ever run the simulator as I said Oct 23 03:46:01 anyone also facing Market-problems ? (That it does not download apps) Oct 23 03:46:04 After_Math: it runs fine for other apps (like Hello WOlrd :-) Oct 23 03:46:08 pfft1, uh well go into the tools dir and run 'simulator' Oct 23 03:46:19 After_Math: ok ... loking now Oct 23 03:46:32 pfft1, k, I would def have it running before trying out apps Oct 23 03:46:33 the GPS is not emulated on the G1 Oct 23 03:46:41 :-D Oct 23 03:46:49 what chipset does the G1 GPS use? Oct 23 03:46:58 it does Assisted GPS to quickly get a coarse location Oct 23 03:47:03 After_Math: but wait that would be running it without debugging, right? Oct 23 03:47:10 but after you get a fix with the satellites, it works just like a normal GPS Oct 23 03:47:17 (which is why it doesn't work inside a building) Oct 23 03:47:23 After_Math: sure ... i could do that , but what would that help with? Oct 23 03:47:33 (which is also why it doesn't work very well if you are between very tall buildings, like downtown Manhattan :) Oct 23 03:47:58 yeah... That's why I was thinking a SiRF III would be nice - it gets good locks in urban canyons Oct 23 03:48:01 I personally had great experience with the GPS on the G1 in various place in California, Utah and Arizona Oct 23 03:48:04 pfft1, no it shouldnt. Eclipse does the debugging not the emulator Oct 23 03:48:18 Oh - that's right - romainguy - I think you were saying you had it working in Zion :) Oct 23 03:48:30 pfft1, you should have the simulator before trying out apps, once you run them, it appears on the sim Oct 23 03:48:40 After_Math: btw its "emulator" not simulator under tools :-) Oct 23 03:48:41 running* Oct 23 03:48:49 pfft1, :) Oct 23 03:48:51 After_Math: and it's running Oct 23 03:48:54 not try Oct 23 03:49:00 After_Math: it runs fine Oct 23 03:49:03 shouldnt eclipse give you errors Oct 23 03:49:14 After_Math: but I want to debug an app in eclipse now Oct 23 03:49:17 what does, the app that was crashing it Oct 23 03:49:19 RyeBrye: it did work great in Zion, but the data connection... :)) Oct 23 03:49:27 I orderd my G1 today... but I still haven't gotten a confirmation email Oct 23 03:49:35 although I was very surprised by where I could get data connectivity Oct 23 03:49:41 like in Capitol Reef Oct 23 03:49:59 Verizon 3G is absolutely bonkers with reception in the middle of nowhere Oct 23 03:50:11 or EVDO rather Oct 23 03:50:38 In the San Rafael Swell, my friends EVDO card had signal when none of our cell phones (T-mobile, Sprint, AT&T) had any signal at all - and Sprint's EVDO card had no signal either... Oct 23 03:51:12 ... hmmm.... I wonder if the USB port could ever be used with an EVDO card ;) Oct 23 03:51:51 when i run the emulator from the tools directory ... why does it find an app that I built from my workspace in eclipse? Oct 23 03:52:31 which directories(?) is my app getting deployed to that the emulator is able to find it? Oct 23 03:52:31 pfft1, maybe it already knows where to look Oct 23 03:52:50 pfft1: ~/.emulator or something like that Oct 23 03:53:06 pfft1: basically, it acts like a normal app, and puts stuff in a dot directory in your homedir Oct 23 03:53:07 After_Math: brilliant!@ Oct 23 03:54:30 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:24:29) Oct 23 03:54:44 After_Math: ~/.android :-) Oct 23 03:54:54 pfft1, :) Oct 23 03:56:12 apparetly eclipse created a new ~/.android/SDK-1.0/userdata-qemu.img that contains information about "some" of the apps that I've been building under eclipse Oct 23 03:56:39 pfft1: it's not eclipse Oct 23 03:56:43 pfft1: it's the emulator Oct 23 03:56:49 and the emulator finds this userdata-qemu.img file ... does that sound right to everyone? Oct 23 03:56:59 pfft1: the emulator creates and uses that directory Oct 23 03:57:08 eclipse has nothing to do with it, other than running the emulator Oct 23 03:57:17 how did the emulator find my workspace directory then? Oct 23 03:57:29 pfft1: your workspace directory? huh? Oct 23 03:57:44 ok look ... Oct 23 03:57:54 if i kill eclipse Oct 23 03:57:58 ... done ... killed Oct 23 03:58:13 the emulator doesn't look for Eclipse Oct 23 03:58:22 and run the emulator ... Oct 23 03:58:30 pfft1: the contents should be the same Oct 23 03:58:42 done ... ok emulator is running Oct 23 03:59:06 why does the emulator see projects that were built by eclipse? Oct 23 03:59:16 pfft1: "userdata_qemu.img" Oct 23 03:59:29 pfft1: the eclipse plugin installs the packages Oct 23 03:59:39 either eclipse deployed the app somewhere or the emulator found the apps ... which is it? Oct 23 04:00:01 pfft1: ok, let's take a step back Oct 23 04:00:05 ok Oct 23 04:00:19 pfft1: userdata-qemu.img is a filesystem image Oct 23 04:00:24 ok Oct 23 04:00:59 pfft1: the eclipse plugin installs packages that you create into the emulator (or a physical device) using adb Oct 23 04:01:12 pfft1: when it installs those packages, the application contents end up on the filesystem Oct 23 04:01:23 ok ... i see Oct 23 04:01:52 so then ... maybe my problem is that eclipse is not installing one of my favorite packages Oct 23 04:02:22 because I only see on app from eclipse's projects Oct 23 04:02:41 pfft1: it's not eclipse's job to install any packages which aren't eclipse projects Oct 23 04:02:55 so the other app that I've been trying to get installed is not installing :-/ Oct 23 04:02:55 pfft1: you can install them from the web-browser, or by using `adb install ` Oct 23 04:03:12 Oh Oct 23 04:03:22 so the apk file is use to do the install Oct 23 04:03:31 pfft1: yes Oct 23 04:03:33 :slaps: self Oct 23 04:03:58 is there password lock for android? Oct 23 04:04:05 the graph thing is way too weak Oct 23 04:04:05 anyway ... this package IS an eclipse project Oct 23 04:04:06 in the settings Oct 23 04:04:10 ah Oct 23 04:04:17 then no, just the graph thing Oct 23 04:04:27 (not that there are more combo with the graph than with a 4 digits password) Oct 23 04:04:30 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 23 04:04:42 AlekseyKorzun: weak in what way? Oct 23 04:04:45 gdsx: Thanks for the info Oct 23 04:04:48 pfft1: np Oct 23 04:05:28 gdsx: so how do i get eclipse (or something) to generate my apk file? Oct 23 04:05:47 pfft1: the apk is generated when you build your application Oct 23 04:05:47 romainguy: ^^^? Oct 23 04:06:05 gdsx: my build did not generate it :-( Oct 23 04:06:07 in Eclipse I mean :) Oct 23 04:06:25 gd someone can trace one by one Oct 23 04:06:33 trial and error Oct 23 04:06:46 unless i make it trace 10123992319 dots which is crazy Oct 23 04:06:46 AlekseyKorzun: you can hit up to 9 dots Oct 23 04:07:00 AlekseyKorzun: and after 5 failed attempts, it starts doing a timeout Oct 23 04:07:06 (I presume there's backoff also) Oct 23 04:07:10 third party devs aren't going to have access to kernel stuff, correct? Oct 23 04:07:11 :| Oct 23 04:07:28 s/aren't going to/don't/ Oct 23 04:07:28 summatusmentis meant: third party devs don't have access to kernel stuff, correct? Oct 23 04:07:37 oh, god Oct 23 04:07:40 * gdsx shoots infobot Oct 23 04:07:51 AlekseyKorzun: what is insecure about this locking mechanism? Oct 23 04:08:10 Limited combinations Oct 23 04:08:14 its 3*3 Oct 23 04:08:17 Dotted board Oct 23 04:08:24 AlekseyKorzun: I told you Oct 23 04:08:25 I prefer passphrase Oct 23 04:08:25 we counted Oct 23 04:08:26 AlekseyKorzun: you can chose any order of dots you want Oct 23 04:08:28 AlekseyKorzun: don't forget you leave behind a smudge mark :) Oct 23 04:08:33 there are far more combinations what with a 4 digits password Oct 23 04:08:37 AlekseyKorzun: so you have 9! patterns Oct 23 04:08:46 (9! - 3!, to be specific) Oct 23 04:09:00 it's a bit more complex than that, but yeah Oct 23 04:09:07 jasta: only if you don't use the screen after unlocking :)) Oct 23 04:09:11 since some have 2 exits, some have 4 Oct 23 04:09:22 can you backtrack? Oct 23 04:09:22 But, I bet if you take some cases alot of humans will use same pattern Oct 23 04:09:24 geist: true Oct 23 04:09:27 geist: no Oct 23 04:09:29 romainguy: hehe, my gf guessed my unlock pattern easily. in practice, that thing is no real measure of security. but then, it isn't supposed to be. Oct 23 04:09:30 AlekseyKorzun: and? Oct 23 04:09:33 Because of convience i guess, but its true for passwords heh Oct 23 04:09:36 my argument fails Oct 23 04:09:37 so it's slightly more limited Oct 23 04:09:37 AlekseyKorzun: people choose stupid passwords also Oct 23 04:09:43 Ok ok Oct 23 04:09:47 jasta: right, but again, you can guess a pattern if you unlock and don't use the screen afterwards Oct 23 04:09:47 it's just a way to keep dweebs away from your phone if you leave it around. it'll work for only a short while Oct 23 04:09:48 hah just saw the first G1 commercial Oct 23 04:09:53 but anyway, i suspect there are at least 10k tracing combinations as well Oct 23 04:10:00 again Oct 23 04:10:02 we counted Oct 23 04:10:07 there are more combo than 4 digits password :p Oct 23 04:10:16 grmbl :p Oct 23 04:10:20 which is why i suspect there are at least 10k combinations Oct 23 04:10:30 there's way more than that :) Oct 23 04:10:35 instinct tells me so, and someone has independently verified it Oct 23 04:10:38 romainguy: i turned it off on my phone. i just keep it in my pocket :) Oct 23 04:10:38 I should find our test Oct 23 04:10:41 but it was above 100k Oct 23 04:11:01 correct, and for the purposes if the argument it only has to be more than 10k to 'beat' the 4 digit thing Oct 23 04:11:07 yep Oct 23 04:11:13 also, the number of combinations doesn't matter much when you consider how unbelievably awkward most of them are to input Oct 23 04:11:15 can someone with a production G1 please msg me, I need to retest something from apps-for-android Oct 23 04:11:30 so i'd bet 95% of folks who use it choose from the same set of maybe 10 patterns :) Oct 23 04:11:40 that would be an interesting test Oct 23 04:11:41 jasta: which, really, is fine :) Oct 23 04:11:55 google probably dumps them all in a database Oct 23 04:12:00 lol Oct 23 04:12:01 various positions and orientations of triangles going right up to the edges is what you'll see :) Oct 23 04:12:01 jt436, what you need? Oct 23 04:12:05 no we don't keep your passwords :p Oct 23 04:12:12 some day a bunch of google scientists will go over them, finding patterns Oct 23 04:12:17 geist: that paranoid about it? read the source :) Oct 23 04:12:22 romainguy: of course, because it's not really a password. cell phone security should be thought of in terms of how likely you are to be pickpocketted. Oct 23 04:12:28 i dont care, as long as they did it anonymously Oct 23 04:12:35 jasta: actually most of the passwords I've seen were NOT that :) Oct 23 04:12:38 of course most folks would freak out, so meh Oct 23 04:12:39 as in, if you're a buffoon that leaves your personal belongings around for people to take, ... Oct 23 04:12:41 geist: we don't Oct 23 04:12:47 yeah, I'm sure you dont Oct 23 04:12:52 romainguy: we don't care :-) Oct 23 04:12:52 after all, you strive to not be evil Oct 23 04:13:03 jasta: yes, if somebody has physical access to your phone, the passlock doesn't really matter Oct 23 04:13:13 but, Trey and I know a few of the androids, and they are all pretty shady folk Oct 23 04:13:17 especially considering the sdcard is not protected at all for instance :)) Oct 23 04:13:22 romainguy: well, to some extent Oct 23 04:13:30 geist: especially the ones called Brian Oct 23 04:13:30 Especially that swetland dude. Oct 23 04:13:33 lol Oct 23 04:13:35 yeah, that swetland guy Oct 23 04:13:42 romainguy: if you hand someone a locked phone, they're not going to own it just by virtue of holding it Oct 23 04:13:50 if they can get it attached to a computer, though, then yeah Oct 23 04:13:59 * geist tries to guess if he knows romainguy Oct 23 04:14:13 gdsx: but you wouldn't hand a lockd phone to an untrusted person right? so your argument is totally moot Oct 23 04:14:25 Maybe this is why noe apk file is generated ... "Conversion to Dalvik format failed: Unable to execute dex: null " Oct 23 04:14:32 noe = no Oct 23 04:14:40 geist: you or swetland? Oct 23 04:14:42 :) Oct 23 04:14:43 romainguy: you wouldn't, no, but if someone finds your phone, it gives you time Oct 23 04:14:52 gdsx: time for what? Oct 23 04:15:01 if someone finds my phone and walks away with it, then what? Oct 23 04:15:01 (not much time, depending on how malicious they are, but some time nonetheless) Oct 23 04:15:02 well, if you're a android person, there's about a 50% chance i've worked with you Oct 23 04:15:03 Remote bricking. Oct 23 04:15:10 geist: I am an Android person Oct 23 04:15:11 romainguy: change password, for one Oct 23 04:15:32 gdsx: I don't really care about that since they would still have all my contacts and all my offline Gmail emails Oct 23 04:15:49 if you were previously dragged through the Be and Danger codemines, then there's almost a 100% chance i've worked with ya Oct 23 04:15:53 aah, true. Oct 23 04:16:14 * jbq waves at geist Oct 23 04:16:15 geist: I presume you know ahaberlacho then :o) Oct 23 04:16:31 oh that guy... roommates with him and swetland for a while Oct 23 04:16:34 geist: then no :) I'm too green to have gone through Be and Danger Oct 23 04:16:35 * geist shudders Oct 23 04:16:45 jbq: hey! Oct 23 04:16:54 blort Oct 23 04:16:59 geist: heh :o) Oct 23 04:17:01 oh god Oct 23 04:17:01 speaking of roommates... Oct 23 04:17:10 this is like a gathering of Danger/Be people Oct 23 04:17:11 Uh oh :-) Oct 23 04:17:15 feels like the office :) Oct 23 04:17:29 Not *all* of us ended up at GOOG. Oct 23 04:17:36 quick, someone rename the channel #beos like in the good old days... Oct 23 04:17:38 thankfully :p Oct 23 04:17:41 TreyB: ... yet Oct 23 04:17:47 yeah, I call android the great singularity that sucked in most of my old cow-orkers Oct 23 04:17:52 I tried. They wouldn't let me work remotely. Oct 23 04:17:54 i managed to resist it's pull Oct 23 04:17:59 at least the Be/Palm people finally released a sucessful product :)) Oct 23 04:18:07 hey, danger did! Oct 23 04:18:11 Aboutn damn time, too. Oct 23 04:18:19 geist: that's why I wrote Be/Palm :)) Oct 23 04:18:21 s/n// Oct 23 04:18:39 * geist looks down at the BeIA shirt he's currently wearing Oct 23 04:18:43 * jbq didn't go the Palm way, though. Oct 23 04:18:47 "we have the technology" Oct 23 04:19:01 i got pulled into the Apple way, did the iphone, then got the hell out Oct 23 04:19:05 I have lots of BeOS T-shirts, but no BeIA shirts, I think. Oct 23 04:19:24 * danfuzz looks down at the giant-squid-attacking-san-francisco t-shirt he's currently wearing Oct 23 04:19:27 TreyB: you didn't come to the september 28,2000 beia picnic i think Oct 23 04:19:37 Nope :-( Oct 23 04:19:38 I have the BeIA picnic shirt somewhere. Oct 23 04:19:40 geist: congratulations, quite a product you guys launched Oct 23 04:20:03 romainguy: he works for the enemy now. Oct 23 04:20:06 romainguy: it was fun. still in an era where you can just sit down and bash out an operating system and a ui on top of it Oct 23 04:20:16 TreyB: which one? :) Oct 23 04:20:30 I'll let him out himself. Oct 23 04:20:35 lol Oct 23 04:20:38 who me? Oct 23 04:20:45 :-) Oct 23 04:20:45 NewOS! Oct 23 04:20:47 hey geist, i hear that Geiselbrecht Heavy Industries is working on a new-new kernel Oct 23 04:20:53 jbq: haiku. that thing self hosts! Oct 23 04:21:17 i am making inroads with swetland to take over android from the inside out Oct 23 04:21:24 I've seen bga a few times Oct 23 04:21:25 Conversion to Dalvik format failed: Unable to execute dex: null Oct 23 04:21:35 add "--debug" to your dx commandline Oct 23 04:21:42 how much access to devs have to kernel? Oct 23 04:21:49 it's trying hard to tell you it got a NullPointerException, almost certainly Oct 23 04:21:53 danfuzz: thanks Oct 23 04:22:04 and it very well might be My Fault Oct 23 04:22:13 danfuzz: I definitely blame ListView though Oct 23 04:22:14 oh that danfuzz guy sure is swell Oct 23 04:22:27 what's a good "where are you" program? one that could be used to find the location of a BB user or WM user. If they have the software Oct 23 04:22:30 danfuzz: but i'm not using the command line ... Oct 23 04:22:32 oh and what did you guys have to do to get dbort on the video? Oct 23 04:22:32 Y'all didn't lift my ListView code, did you? Oct 23 04:22:36 is he drugged? Oct 23 04:22:50 TreyB: if I did, I hate you Oct 23 04:22:54 what would a normal command line be for building an andoroid app/package? Oct 23 04:23:01 he was just so sleepless he didn't realize what was going on. Oct 23 04:23:05 pfft1: afraid i can't help, then... but surely there's an ant task or a something-or-other that passes arguments to dx Oct 23 04:23:16 and surely that something-or-other can be asked nicely to add another one Oct 23 04:23:32 or you can extract the commandline from it and paste it into a shell with mods Oct 23 04:23:37 or something like that Oct 23 04:23:55 danfuzz: there is no build.xml so i don't think "ant" will work ... Oct 23 04:24:00 romainguy: You'd have to have stolen the OutlineListView stuff from BeOS or PalmOS 6. Otherwise blame someone else. Oct 23 04:24:17 yeah, i'm sure it was all done wonderfully in cobalt Oct 23 04:24:24 everything else pales in comparison Oct 23 04:24:34 the commandline equiv would be something like "dx --dex --some-other-options-here directory/name/here" Oct 23 04:24:42 TreyB: I don't hate you then :) Oct 23 04:24:45 geist: just to be sure, you didn't do the Tour de Cupcake, did you? Oct 23 04:24:48 danfuzz: "ant AndroidManifest.xml" maybe? Oct 23 04:24:56 nah, i have no idea what that even is Oct 23 04:25:00 ok Oct 23 04:25:05 no, the manifest file isn't an ant build xml Oct 23 04:25:12 oh hah, yeah i heard about that though Oct 23 04:25:15 didn't think so Oct 23 04:25:17 bunch of folks at work did it Oct 23 04:25:22 so how do you build from the cli Oct 23 04:25:23 my apologies; i didn't work on the app build fu Oct 23 04:25:24 ? Oct 23 04:25:26 geist: it was tons of fun Oct 23 04:25:39 alas i am still trapped in southbay Oct 23 04:25:53 geist: I met a guy there who went to HS with dbort, and whose brother was a roommate with dbort in college, Oct 23 04:26:00 where Nothing Ever Happens Oct 23 04:26:24 pfft1: i never build apps directly; i build the system en masse with "make" Oct 23 04:26:40 hence my gaping lack of knowledge in this territory Oct 23 04:26:43 pfft1: try `mm` Oct 23 04:27:02 danfuzz: you have come to rely on your tools so much you forgot how to build directly? Once the Cleansing happens, you people will be the first to go Oct 23 04:27:03 I'm not sure if the OSS build system has that or not, but it's worth a try Oct 23 04:27:12 gdsx: mm is only for our Makefile based apps, not for apps generated with Eclipse Oct 23 04:27:20 us that can build on the command line will survive, barely Oct 23 04:27:40 geist: pthtt. Oct 23 04:27:41 gdsx: ok ... Oct 23 04:27:44 romainguy: is pfft1 using eclipse? I didn't realize Oct 23 04:27:56 vim+scons forever! Oct 23 04:28:11 gdsx: and he would have had to write his Makefile, which I doubt is the case Oct 23 04:28:15 how do I delete downloaded apps that havent been installed Oct 23 04:28:25 But vim+ant works, too. Oct 23 04:28:36 on the topic of building... is there a way to rebuild framework.jar and test it out without rebuilding the root image, etc. Oct 23 04:28:44 And screen. We've got to have screen. Oct 23 04:28:45 After_Math: don't worry about it; it'll get taken care of Oct 23 04:28:48 ralpht: yes Oct 23 04:29:07 After_Math: (downloads go to a cache partition that is cleared when needed) Oct 23 04:29:12 $ mm Oct 23 04:29:12 bash: mm: command not found :-( Oct 23 04:29:13 ralpht: you can use make framework snod, then adb remount then adb shell stop, then adb sync, then adb shell start Oct 23 04:29:28 pfft1, how did you get into bash? Oct 23 04:29:29 gdsx, ah ok cool thanks Oct 23 04:29:29 if you shake your device enough the uninstalled apps will eventually make their way to the usb port and fall out Oct 23 04:29:43 you have to open the little rubber door though Oct 23 04:29:46 cool, thanks romainguy Oct 23 04:29:55 let me find the alias I use Oct 23 04:29:58 gdsx: i was trying to use eclipse, but i get the error "Conversion to Dalvik format failed: Unable to execute dex: null" Oct 23 04:30:46 gdsx: so now i'd like to just build it from the command line if I can Oct 23 04:31:19 anyone know how to navigate to the "Email" app in the emulator? Oct 23 04:31:20 geist, haha! Oct 23 04:32:22 lemonadedrink, !! Oct 23 04:32:34 ralpht: note that it will work only with the emulator, not a production G1 Oct 23 04:32:35 Is the "Massaging" app in the emulator the same as the "Email" app under mydroid? Oct 23 04:32:40 no Oct 23 04:32:52 After_Math: hi :) Oct 23 04:33:01 Massaging = mEssaging Oct 23 04:33:02 lemonadedrink, get the phone? Oct 23 04:33:16 After_Math: nope heh Oct 23 04:33:28 After_Math: you? Oct 23 04:33:34 sorry, i gotta head out, but should the dx problem not be resolved, please do go ahead and file a bug Oct 23 04:33:36 romainguy: there's no way to replace framework, etc on the G1, right? (except by submitting code back to android and having it be OTA'd some time much later...) Oct 23 04:33:43 nope Oct 23 04:33:52 anyone know how to navigate to the "Email" app in the emulator? Oct 23 04:34:20 ralpht: private message Oct 23 04:34:21 cool, in an hour I've almost gotten the MOS6502 processor architecture mapped into classes Oct 23 04:34:34 Hello. Novice question: How would I get my G1 to turn up in the "adb devices" list? Oct 23 04:34:36 tmccrary: good job! Oct 23 04:34:54 this is a lot easier than I thought it would be Oct 23 04:34:59 what all does the G1 act as over bluetooth? Oct 23 04:36:40 lemonadedrink, ya its so awsome Oct 23 04:36:46 ChrisBrown1: enabled USB debugging in Settings > Applications > Development Oct 23 04:36:51 lemonadedrink, how do you not have the phone yet??!!!?!?! Oct 23 04:37:02 After_Math: teh monies Oct 23 04:37:12 does android have an email app? is it in the emulator? Oct 23 04:37:22 romainguy, Thank you. I have done that. Also this is with Windows SDK and no emulator running. Oct 23 04:37:25 pfft1: yes, no unless you build it from the source and install it Oct 23 04:37:32 ChrisBrown1: you must install the USB drivers Oct 23 04:37:36 (for Windows 32bits only) Oct 23 04:37:40 lemonadedrink, ah, I feel ya, my moms got it for me for xmas and bday :) haha and Im 23 Oct 23 04:37:41 Ah... Where do I find the USB drivers Oct 23 04:37:42 :) Oct 23 04:38:06 After_Math: lucky :) Oct 23 04:38:39 romainguy: does the g1 have an email app? Oct 23 04:38:53 pfft1: I believe he said yes. Oct 23 04:39:24 pfft1: yes it has and it works :) Oct 23 04:39:33 ahh ... i think the light is starting to come on ... slowly ... slowly Oct 23 04:40:24 pfft1: yes Oct 23 04:40:31 lemme guess if it has been built in the mydroid directory here ... i will be able to deploy it with adb install Email.apk? Oct 23 04:41:30 exact Oct 23 04:42:31 lemonadedrink, dude I love it. Best phone ever made Oct 23 04:42:52 cool ! Oct 23 04:43:05 $ adb install Email.apk Oct 23 04:43:05 error: device not found :-( Oct 23 04:43:16 After_Math: go on... :) Oct 23 04:43:48 romainguy, Do you have a link to, or guidance on finding, the Win32 USB drivers? And/Or same question on not finding the G1 from Linux in 'adb devices'? Oct 23 04:44:07 lemonadedrink, hehe its sooo fast too, at least right now. I cant wait till the 3rd party market opens monday :) weeeee Oct 23 04:44:42 After_Math: sounds awesome. you written any apps? Oct 23 04:45:06 lemonadedrink, na not yet, Im a newb with java. Oct 23 04:45:21 After_Math: yeah me too. Oct 23 04:45:46 :) Oct 23 04:46:24 ChrisBrown1: the Win32 driver is available at code.google.com/android Oct 23 04:47:23 pft you need to enable USB in the settings Oct 23 04:47:26 then you can see it with adb Oct 23 04:48:26 so how do i "make" just one package instead of the entire ball of wax? Oct 23 04:48:58 cbeust: i'm just trying to do this in the emulator for right now ... no g1 yet ... thanks for the info though Oct 23 04:49:04 ok I downloaded and installed an ap, but I cant seem to find the icon or app anywhere? Oct 23 04:49:18 romainguy, Thank you. I'd overlooked it the first time through... Link: http://dl.google.com/android/android_usb_windows.zip Oct 23 04:49:24 np Oct 23 04:49:54 romainguy: are you working on any more cool apps for android? Oct 23 04:51:43 adb install out/target/product/generic/system/app/Email.apk Oct 23 04:51:43 error: device not found :-( Oct 23 04:52:03 mo0620: given the reviews I get on Market, not really :)) Oct 23 04:52:11 but I have another app I need to finish Oct 23 04:52:25 the book shelves thingie I showed in one of the Android YouTube videos Oct 23 04:52:43 cool Oct 23 04:52:59 romainguy: wow ... you are the bookshelves guy ... cool Oct 23 04:53:45 what do i search for to view the bookshelves app you talk about? Oct 23 04:53:45 I really want to Open Source it, there's some interesting patterns in the code Oct 23 04:53:58 what is this app you speak of romain? Oct 23 04:54:07 romainguy: url to bookshelf video? Oct 23 04:54:09 seriously how do you install an App and not be able to launch it, there is no ICon Oct 23 04:54:17 mo0620: f00f- : unix_infidel : http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=3LkNlTNHZzE Oct 23 04:54:26 After_Math: ? Oct 23 04:54:47 hahaha dude Oct 23 04:54:52 romain is that your desktop? Oct 23 04:54:54 2 screens?! Oct 23 04:55:00 There was this really cool app on my Sony Ericson P990 - it would use the camera to snap an image of a business card, and it would OCR and auto-parse the card and generate a contact from it Oct 23 04:55:12 f00f-: lol no Oct 23 04:55:21 f00f-: but I do have 2 screens (30" + 24") Oct 23 04:55:42 romainguy, I downloaded an app installed it but no icon for it? Oct 23 04:55:50 which app? Oct 23 04:56:20 Someone needs to build that for Android :) - I'd volunteer, but I'm no OCR expert and I don't know of any good OCR engines for java. I also think that offloading the OCR to a webserver is cheating Oct 23 04:56:24 romain, you're my hero Oct 23 04:56:36 this is the first time i've seen/heard you Oct 23 04:56:45 Wait Oct 23 04:56:46 WTF Oct 23 04:56:47 bookshelves looks cool Oct 23 04:56:54 Alarm doesn't sound if phone is set to silent?? Oct 23 04:56:57 romainguy, its a third party app off the web but here http://www.anddev.org/united_states_constitution_in_your_pocket-t3184.html Oct 23 04:56:58 Jesus Oct 23 04:57:17 AlekseyKorzun: I believe it does actually Oct 23 04:57:18 RyeBrye: the barcode app in market decodes 2d barcodes that have contact info embedded Oct 23 04:57:22 Hmm Oct 23 04:57:27 adb install out/target/product/generic/system/app/Email.apk Oct 23 04:57:28 error: device not found Oct 23 04:57:29 It wouldn't be very silent otherwise. :-) Oct 23 04:57:35 After_Math: oh, I don't know anything about non-Market apps, sorry Oct 23 04:57:48 romainguy, how might I uninstall them then? Oct 23 04:57:59 After_Math: Settings > Applications > Manage Applications Oct 23 04:58:20 romainguy, its not even in there :/ Oct 23 04:58:21 umdk1d3 - that's not bad... but I'm talking about real OCR of just printed text... like a normal business card. I'm positive it can be done and it can be done well on a cell phone processor since I've seen it done before - I'm just not positive if > I < can be the one to make it happen since I'm not an OCR genius :) Oct 23 04:58:27 romainguy: very cool app. love to see amazon book integration. Oct 23 04:58:32 After_Math: look for a package bane Oct 23 04:58:41 unix_infidel: I have two versions of the app actually Oct 23 04:58:47 romainguy - that app reminds me a lot of delicious library for the mac - have you seen that app? Oct 23 04:58:54 unix_infidel: one that uses Amazon and one that uses Google Books Search Oct 23 04:58:58 romainguy, sorry to be ignorant, but Im not sure what you mean. Oct 23 04:58:59 but the amazon version violates the ToS :) Oct 23 04:59:14 RyeBrye: I've been using Delicious Library since the betas of 1.0 :)) Oct 23 04:59:21 romainguy - Ah... I see the inspiration :) Oct 23 04:59:26 definitely :)) Oct 23 04:59:28 Yeah, I like how it uses the iSight to scan barcodes Oct 23 04:59:34 yep Oct 23 04:59:37 After_Math: you can uninstall an app by going into the App market, then go to downloads, from there you may uninstall Oct 23 04:59:45 my app can actually import data exported from Delicious Oct 23 04:59:51 Romainguy - nice :) Oct 23 04:59:52 that's how I filled the list of books Oct 23 05:00:02 romainguy - did you write your own barcode scanning library, or is there a good one out there you tied into? Oct 23 05:00:19 oh no Oct 23 05:00:20 mo0620, oh ok thanks Oct 23 05:00:24 I used the Barcode Scanner app Oct 23 05:00:29 np Oct 23 05:00:31 I just send the intent SCAN and it does the work for me :)) Oct 23 05:00:37 oh, gotcha. Cool. Oct 23 05:00:40 that's what the video is about Oct 23 05:00:51 similarly, my Photostream app uses the RADAR Intent that Mike wrote for his Panoramio app Oct 23 05:00:54 * RyeBrye has a short attention span and just skipped to where he saw the action taking place Oct 23 05:01:03 :) Oct 23 05:01:11 mo0620, the apps that werent installed from the market arent in there Oct 23 05:01:18 is there an ANDROID_HOME env that I'm missing? Oct 23 05:01:31 After_Math: the app you installed might have a weird name like com.stuff.constitution Oct 23 05:01:39 romainguy: curse you and your fr subdomain...now I have to clear out cookies! Oct 23 05:01:55 Is there some kind of package manager for intents? Like if you try to install an application that uses intents that no applications provide functionlity for... does it say "hey, download this" or does it fetch depenencies automatically, or does it just error out? Oct 23 05:01:57 romainguy, Ive combed through my phone completely :( Oct 23 05:02:08 unix_infidel: lol sorry, I don't know why YouTube always sends me to the fr subdomain Oct 23 05:02:14 After_Math: then it's not installed :) Oct 23 05:02:43 romainguy, hm, i installed it.. Oct 23 05:02:44 RyeBrye: an exception will be thrown, it's up to the app to manage it Oct 23 05:02:45 romainguy: maybe because you're in france? Oct 23 05:02:51 unix_infidel: but I'm not Oct 23 05:02:59 romainguy, is it possible it could be malicous and hiding? Oct 23 05:03:03 romainguy: yea tim orielly was tweeting about this earlier. Oct 23 05:03:04 After_Math: no :) Oct 23 05:03:10 this channel sure is picking up Oct 23 05:03:16 romainguy, sorry to ask but why not? Oct 23 05:03:20 google DOESNT recognize his US cookies when he's abaroad. Oct 23 05:03:30 "Total of 215 nicks" Oct 23 05:03:36 Yes, we're up a bit. :-) Oct 23 05:03:41 After_Math: because if it is installed, it shows up in the package manager Oct 23 05:03:42 yes, i think it was like 150 a week ago Oct 23 05:03:50 After_Math: which leads me to believe that it didn't install Oct 23 05:03:52 lets shoot for 500 Oct 23 05:04:01 romainguy, ok Ill take your word for it :) Oct 23 05:04:02 anyway Oct 23 05:04:08 more users = more ppl who get interested in developing = more good stuff for android :) Oct 23 05:04:09 After_Math: you can run adb uninstall com.darkdesign.constitution to uninstall it Oct 23 05:04:15 Does Android support ICQ ? Oct 23 05:04:25 through AIM ?? Oct 23 05:04:25 romainguy (or anyone else): Is it possible to determine form an application which intents it will use or which intents it provides? some kind of "intents reflection"? I can imagine using such information and building a database of it would make it relatively easy to provide an intelligent "intents manger" kind of application that would give you options to fully configure different apps Oct 23 05:04:31 After_Math: I checked the source code, it should have a normal name if installed Oct 23 05:04:33 DarkriftX: meh, there has to be an incentive, so great paid apps are just an extension of great free apps. Oct 23 05:04:34 romainguy, from the phone? Oct 23 05:04:44 plusminus_, i saw an app that had icq support but it didnt work Oct 23 05:04:45 adb install out/target/product/generic/system/app/Email.apkerror: device not found Oct 23 05:04:45 After_Math: from your computer :( Oct 23 05:04:50 RyeBrye: no, but we are thinking about it Oct 23 05:04:55 romainguy, ok maybe it didnt install then, i will try to install again thanks for helping me,I was a bit scared,lol Oct 23 05:05:05 romainguy, hm Oct 23 05:05:08 unix_infidel, there are great free apps for linux that dont have paid counterparts Oct 23 05:05:17 RyeBrye: we would like the manifest to declare the intents the app understands Oct 23 05:05:25 romainguy - is there some kind of manifest where intents could just be listed - and things could declare their dependenies ala OSGI ? Oct 23 05:05:28 Anyone have worked on Android for OM Freerunner? I have Debian installed and to support Andriod apps Oct 23 05:05:37 RyeBrye: not yet, again, we're thinking about it Oct 23 05:05:39 yeah, manifest makes the most sense to me too Oct 23 05:05:42 it can and will happen for android also, and im sure there will be lots of paid apps too, just gives more choice for hte user Oct 23 05:05:59 adb install out/target/product/generic/system/app/Email.apk Oct 23 05:05:59 error: device not found Oct 23 05:06:15 No problem - probably not a launch day priority - but an intent package manager would be pretty cool once there starts to be a need for that kind of thing Oct 23 05:06:40 romainguy, jesus, it says install unsuccessful god!! im so blind Oct 23 05:06:42 definitely Oct 23 05:06:56 RyeBrye: actually we would even like to let you define your intents dependencies at the market level Oct 23 05:06:59 I'm guessing that there aren't any advanced bytecode scanning or manipulating apps... no CGLIB for Dalvik, or anything, right? Oct 23 05:07:09 not from your app :) Oct 23 05:07:19 ask that to fadden or danfuzz :) Oct 23 05:07:54 did dan release his business card app yet? Oct 23 05:08:21 The Dalvik specs just got released two days ago. Stuff will happen in time. Oct 23 05:08:42 fadden0: what about a JIT? Oct 23 05:08:45 * romainguy ducks and covers Oct 23 05:09:12 romainguy: I'm so entering you on the TSA watch list. Oct 23 05:09:24 I'm probably already on it Oct 23 05:09:31 I'm going to port HotSpot to Dalvik ;) Oct 23 05:09:42 maybe i'm missing it, but is there a tool to unpack an apk? Oct 23 05:09:48 yes Oct 23 05:09:50 it's called unzip Oct 23 05:10:14 srsly? Oct 23 05:10:14 ha Oct 23 05:10:15 ok Oct 23 05:10:38 hey Andy :) Oct 23 05:10:51 What are the odds? :-) Oct 23 05:10:57 hey romain Oct 23 05:10:58 I was so sad that 1: T-mobile stores in Utah don't carry the G1 (not in a 3G area) - and 2: after I ordered it online this morning... I STILL haven't gotten any confirmation email from them :( Oct 23 05:11:16 fadden0: management surprises me every day on this team :) Oct 23 05:11:25 arubin: hey Oct 23 05:11:44 oh wow Oct 23 05:12:54 Just out of curiosity - how well do java applications port over to Android, and what's the most complicated application someone's seen ported (not for usability sake - just for a "hmm... wonder if I can do this... sake") - anything on the scale of Tomcat or Hibernate, or any of the big projects? Oct 23 05:13:15 RyeBrye: Jetty was ported Oct 23 05:13:19 it's a servlet container Oct 23 05:13:25 Yeah, Jetty was the next one I was going to ask about Oct 23 05:13:26 OSGi was ported too Oct 23 05:13:38 RyeBrye I got mine here in Utah... by mail. Oct 23 05:13:53 but any app with a lot of GUI code or with bytecode manipulation will not port well :) Oct 23 05:14:16 thank you Oct 23 05:14:17 arubin: are you the Director of Mobile Platforms at Google or is your name just arubin? Oct 23 05:14:18 e.g. Jython Oct 23 05:14:20 Yeah, I didn't think Hibernate woudl do it. I wonder if parts of the Spring Framework woudl work Oct 23 05:14:43 RyeBrye: you know, these frameworks are a bit large for a phone Oct 23 05:14:53 Yes, of course - I'd never build an app using them on the phone Oct 23 05:14:57 cool i got the email app running in the emulator works great! Oct 23 05:15:07 The inner geek in me just likes seeing strange combinations of tech Oct 23 05:15:12 it supports IMAP out of the box ... amazing! Oct 23 05:15:12 i like my g1 Oct 23 05:15:17 mo0620: both! Oct 23 05:15:25 who did the Email app? anyone here? Oct 23 05:15:29 nope Oct 23 05:15:37 I'm the unofficial maintainer though Oct 23 05:15:38 sweet Oct 23 05:15:46 (I still wonder why :) Oct 23 05:15:52 romainguy: really? i'm gonna take a crack at IMAP IDLE support this weekend Oct 23 05:15:53 unoffically maintain me some exchange support Oct 23 05:16:02 romainguy: great job of maintaining, if i do say so myself ... nice app Oct 23 05:16:19 jasta: feel free, I will certainly not do it Oct 23 05:16:26 romainguy: working with google sounds fun Oct 23 05:16:29 i knew google wouldn't :) Oct 23 05:16:34 Google would Oct 23 05:16:40 jasta: are you planning on modifiying the Email app? Oct 23 05:16:44 romainguy: does the Email app currently build clean and install onto the emulator? Oct 23 05:16:50 jasta: yes Oct 23 05:16:53 everything does Oct 23 05:17:00 excellent, then i'll bang that out this weekend for sur e:) Oct 23 05:17:01 you guys have the same source and tools we use internally Oct 23 05:17:12 cool... even the baseband stuff! ;) Oct 23 05:17:12 jasta: i just built it and installed it Oct 23 05:17:25 runs great in the emulator Oct 23 05:17:44 romainguy: do you know any details for the OTA update coming in tomorrow Oct 23 05:17:55 I know nothing about an OTA tomorrow Oct 23 05:17:58 hmm arubin might be legit--etheric appears to be a fancy bay-area network provider, and he has a static ip Oct 23 05:18:01 oh i see Oct 23 05:18:10 <_avatar> i think the update tomorrow fixes an amazonmp3 bug Oct 23 05:18:12 * _avatar hangs his head in shame Oct 23 05:18:19 hehe Oct 23 05:18:22 *fired* Oct 23 05:18:33 jasta: have you done any other android apps? Oct 23 05:18:37 ugh i dont even use amazon,hopefully there will be other bug fixes Oct 23 05:18:39 pfft1: hehe, uhh, yes. Oct 23 05:18:52 jasta: cool which one(s)? Oct 23 05:18:56 umdk1d3 - did you nmap him and figure out what ports he has opened to fingerprint his OS yet ;) Oct 23 05:19:02 can we update the g1 via usb? Oct 23 05:19:09 pfft1: http://five.googlecode.com, mainly. Oct 23 05:19:09 RyeBrye: lol already tried, its closed tight Oct 23 05:19:12 :) Oct 23 05:19:16 * umdk1d3 greps logs Oct 23 05:19:35 Hmm... scan his neighbors then ;) Oct 23 05:19:59 * RyeBrye realizes he needs to probably zip up his local firewall a bit more... Oct 23 05:20:11 jasta: nice! Oct 23 05:20:39 Is there an IRC client for Android yet? Oct 23 05:20:44 romainguy: are you guys using Protocol Buffers in any of the Android apps? Oct 23 05:20:52 pfft1: if you're feeling adventurous, you can build it yourself. the INSTALL file is up-to-date. Oct 23 05:20:52 jasta: releasing it as free? Oct 23 05:20:56 covalentbond_: no idea Oct 23 05:21:05 unix_infidel: it's GPL. Oct 23 05:21:23 RyeBrye: code.google.com/p/androidchat Oct 23 05:21:28 whoops, I should probably the words on my screen now and again. Oct 23 05:21:32 covalendbond: covalend? Oct 23 05:21:44 that's late-night fat fingering Oct 23 05:21:49 If I downloaded a source code for a app, do I just put that in my tools directory and 'ant sourcedir' ? Oct 23 05:22:07 it's a client for inspircd Oct 23 05:22:09 jasta: how long have you been running five on a device? Oct 23 05:22:09 RyeBrye: speaking of irc client Oct 23 05:22:25 RyeBrye: i think they designed the IM client to be plugin-based Oct 23 05:22:29 Cool Oct 23 05:22:32 not sure if irc would fit easily into that paradigm Oct 23 05:22:42 NiZoX: a client for a specific ircd? Oct 23 05:22:47 yep Oct 23 05:22:59 what makes that ircd different? Oct 23 05:23:03 <_avatar> anyone know if there's an easy way to change the shadow color of a ListView? the part that is drawn to indicate there are items off screen? Oct 23 05:23:03 ircd is customized to enable GPS positionning Oct 23 05:23:16 A DCC pluging on the Android IRC maybe for the wArEz pups out there? Oct 23 05:23:32 NiZoX: err... as part of USER or something? Oct 23 05:23:46 * RyeBrye invisions an annoying auto-announcer that someone writes that posts updates such as "RyeBrye: Moved 3 meters north" Oct 23 05:23:48 lol @ dcc-serving phone Oct 23 05:24:01 gdsx: http://code.google.com/p/androidchat/source/browse/trunk/ircd/m_location.cpp Oct 23 05:24:17 I think the LAST thing in the world I'd ever want is people on IRC knowing my location to within 3 meters Oct 23 05:24:27 Well... maybe the next to last thing Oct 23 05:24:35 and GPS drains the battery :) Oct 23 05:24:37 well I have some bad news for you Oct 23 05:24:44 ooh has anyone checked to see if the gps in G1 has altitude? Oct 23 05:24:59 umdk1d3: it does Oct 23 05:25:03 =D Oct 23 05:26:01 Any chance the GPS on the G1 is designed for producing navigation results above 60,000 feet altitude and at 1,000 knots velocity or greater? Oct 23 05:26:04 No reason... ;) Oct 23 05:26:07 * unix_infidel envisions an app where unix_infidel sneaks up on umdk1d3 while debugging and the phone measures his z-axis velocity. Oct 23 05:26:14 ;-) Oct 23 05:26:56 How low-level can you get with the USB if you want to go nuts? For instance... could I hijack the USB and make the thing identify itself as a USB HID device and use the dinky keyboard on the thing as a USB keyboard? Oct 23 05:27:12 ooh excellent question Oct 23 05:27:14 * RyeBrye would do all his code that way. It would rule. Oct 23 05:27:32 also, would it be possible to turn the G1 into a usb host instead of client? Oct 23 05:27:38 umdk1d3: no Oct 23 05:27:46 USB Host isn't in the chipset? Oct 23 05:27:48 :( Oct 23 05:27:49 it seems like its just a kernel usb stac right? Oct 23 05:28:03 my understanding is that there's a missing hardware part Oct 23 05:28:06 I think USB host is typically a feature of the CPU or something Oct 23 05:28:12 there would be /tons/ of fun to hack if that was possible :/ Oct 23 05:28:14 or maybe not CPu Oct 23 05:28:18 otherwise I would have hooked up my Xbox 360 controller already to play Quake :)) Oct 23 05:28:21 usb chipset maybe Oct 23 05:28:29 Can someone tell me how to get the Build.xml file created from a downloaded source? Oct 23 05:28:40 OpenMoko's FreeRunner can act as a USB Host Oct 23 05:30:13 Romainguy - get hacking on the bluetooth support so you can use a Wii controller with it then :) Oct 23 05:30:23 RyeBrye: or the PS3 controller Oct 23 05:31:02 RyeBrye, you know, I actually bet it won't be long before we start seeing that. Oct 23 05:31:26 BHSPitMonkey: hi Oct 23 05:31:26 Considering how commonplace Wiimote+PC bonding has become Oct 23 05:31:28 Is the bluetooth stack complete enough to support all the crazy device profiles? Oct 23 05:31:36 tmzt, hola Oct 23 05:31:52 ps3 is special, pairing is weird Oct 23 05:32:00 but bluez should support it now Oct 23 05:32:04 oh man, godesignate.com tells me I shouldnt buy the G1 :-( Oct 23 05:32:14 porting Bluez -> Android would be an epic win Oct 23 05:32:16 * BHSPitMonkey pushes unix_infidel down the stairs Oct 23 05:32:49 * unix_infidel somehow forgets to add BHSPitMonkey to the manifest.... Oct 23 05:34:18 Using a bluetooth keyboard with the G1 would be pretty sweet. Oct 23 05:34:19 RyeBrye: have you looked at android.git.kernel, they might be using it now Oct 23 05:34:34 There's enough dealbreakers for me to not consider a G1, but I know there will be more, better models to come along with android Oct 23 05:35:14 I might code up a few apps and see if I can make a couple of bucks on the G1 so pay for the next one that comes out that I like better Oct 23 05:35:22 s/so/to Oct 23 05:35:34 heh Oct 23 05:35:38 I guess the G1 cant download from rapidshare Oct 23 05:35:48 it doesn't support http??? Oct 23 05:36:11 hey Dianne :) Oct 23 05:42:33 I can relate; I can't download from rapidshare, either Oct 23 05:42:43 (Just in general, I can't stand doing it.) Oct 23 05:45:01 Does the h264 playback on the G4 playback mp4 files encoded for ipods? Oct 23 05:46:00 oh, the bunnies thing? Oct 23 05:47:53 i'm so glad that android is sooo linux centric out of the box Oct 23 05:48:07 this is really a FIRST for the cell phone industry ... in soo many ways Oct 23 05:48:09 oh shit Oct 23 05:48:19 nuther idea for an app Oct 23 05:48:27 languish: LOL Oct 23 05:49:37 For the Google android Mac OSX page - it says you need to have a Case-Sensitive HFS+ journaled drive - but the problem is that many apps don't function on HFS+ case-sensitive drives - like the adobe creative suite or other things.... it should mention the option of creating a sparse HFS+ case sensitive disk image and mounting and using that for the android building - since it'd be a lot better than reformatting a hard drive or creating a new Oct 23 05:49:37 partitin Oct 23 05:49:55 an local network voip app that when enabled, sets up an "available" flag, and searches for other local available flags.. then uses the camera button like a push to talk/walkie talkie Oct 23 05:50:13 RyeBrye: that's actually what we all do, we use disk images Oct 23 05:50:18 just for like.. chatting with someone in the next room Oct 23 05:50:19 but yeah, the page should mention it Oct 23 05:50:26 instead of yelling through the house Oct 23 05:50:30 unfortunately disk images are also slower Oct 23 05:50:40 on such a huge source base, you can tell the difference Oct 23 05:50:47 so if you can spare a drive or partition... :) Oct 23 05:51:13 RyeBrye: there are apps that don't run on case-sensitive filesystems? wow Oct 23 05:51:24 Yeah. I found that out the hard way Oct 23 05:51:38 Try to install Adobe CS3 on a case sensitive drive and it wont even open the installer Oct 23 05:51:54 you can force it to try to install, but it's too stupid to run Oct 23 05:52:00 Adobe tools were never developed on case-sensitive systems so that's not very surprising :)) Oct 23 05:52:32 Well.... never say never - There WAS a photoshop built for UNIX Oct 23 05:52:45 called gimp Oct 23 05:52:47 :| Oct 23 05:52:59 RyeBrye: oh yes indeed Oct 23 05:53:03 wow :) Oct 23 05:53:05 It was way expensive Oct 23 05:53:06 http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_1995_August_8/ai_17146571 Oct 23 05:53:31 $995 is the price of Photoshop CS4 Extended edition :) Oct 23 05:54:01 True, but that's the reduced price of the UNIX version - it was a lot more than the other platforms at the time Oct 23 05:54:07 ^^ Oct 23 05:54:32 "We depend on Adobe Photoshop software to produce great images for Tony La Russa Baseball 3 and our other games" Oct 23 05:54:47 unix, not just OSX? Oct 23 05:54:54 Yeah, real full on unix - in 1995 Oct 23 05:54:58 and probably earlier Oct 23 05:55:08 like SGI Indy's and stuff Oct 23 05:55:28 or maybe just the SPARCs Oct 23 05:57:28 oh, you mean that is less than the old unix version? too hopeful Oct 23 06:06:55 how in the heck do i get at the SD card slot on this thing Oct 23 06:07:05 I used a chainsaw on mine Oct 23 06:07:10 oh... wait... I don't have mine yet :( Oct 23 06:07:11 jasta: ? Oct 23 06:07:20 romainguy: where is the SD card? :) Oct 23 06:07:33 under the green key Oct 23 06:07:35 open the keyboard Oct 23 06:07:47 on the right side of the keyboard you'll see a little trap door Oct 23 06:07:50 oh yeah :)( Oct 23 06:07:57 thats well obscured Oct 23 06:07:58 or you could read your manual :)) Oct 23 06:17:44 romainguy: you said you bought an 8GB SanDisk card? is it class 4? Oct 23 06:18:35 yes Oct 23 06:18:42 I also have a 8GB class 2 Oct 23 06:18:50 and the class 2 is fast enough for everything I do Oct 23 06:18:59 romainguy - how big of a disk image do you use for your androind build stuff? Oct 23 06:19:00 (I have loaded 6 GB of music and 1 GB of photos on both cards) Oct 23 06:19:17 what is the included storage card, do you know? Oct 23 06:19:35 RyeBrye: let me check Oct 23 06:19:42 jasta: it doesnt' say? Oct 23 06:19:58 romainguy - I set up an 8GB one, should that be enough you think? Oct 23 06:20:04 RyeBrye: barely :) Oct 23 06:20:14 Ok, I might grow it later Oct 23 06:20:24 I use a 20 GB disk image Oct 23 06:20:38 but I have 4 copies of the source tree Oct 23 06:20:54 I have about 13 GB of source+binaries in the image Oct 23 06:21:11 Is the ADT source code in git? Oct 23 06:21:22 romainguy: doesnt seem to Oct 23 06:21:28 but there is very tiny writing on it i cant read Oct 23 06:21:57 the bottom text says made in china Oct 23 06:22:13 ican't make out the line above it Oct 23 06:22:27 and too lazy to look for digicam or mag glass Oct 23 06:22:31 jasta: it's probably a cheap card, so a class 2 or class 4 Oct 23 06:22:43 it's a sandisk Oct 23 06:22:55 at least it's got a brand lol Oct 23 06:23:23 but is it genuine sandisk :) Oct 23 06:23:58 better question is, how does it taste? Oct 23 06:24:07 * languish muncha cruncha Oct 23 06:24:14 like wheaties :/ Oct 23 06:30:19 is there a way to make a wallpaper that was downloaded to go into the wallpaper gallery folder so i do not have to crop the wallpaper? Oct 23 06:31:36 mo0620: no Oct 23 06:31:40 and you can resize the crop area Oct 23 06:32:03 if the downloaded wallpaper is 640x480, then you can select the entire picture Oct 23 06:32:07 really, how do i resize the crop area Oct 23 06:32:14 drag the edges Oct 23 06:32:16 or the corners Oct 23 06:32:21 oh crap im stupid Oct 23 06:32:30 :p Oct 23 06:32:41 lol it worked Oct 23 06:33:03 i always thought im forced to use that crop size Oct 23 06:33:06 i was like wtf Oct 23 06:33:15 hey we're not totally dumb :) Oct 23 06:33:29 but yeah, maybe we should show the icons always on the edges Oct 23 06:33:44 same goes when you create pictures frame on the Home screen btw Oct 23 06:33:49 you can select any area you want Oct 23 06:33:57 the only thing you cannot change when cropping is the ratio Oct 23 06:34:12 ya there are a lot of little tips and tricks for this g1, i just learned that you have to create a folder called ringtones in order for it to appear in the ringtone selection Oct 23 06:34:35 i think when the memory card is formatted it should already create those folders Oct 23 06:35:40 what filesystems does it support on the memory cards? Oct 23 06:35:51 I want XFS straight up! ;) Oct 23 06:39:48 RyeBrye: FAT16 and FAT32 Oct 23 06:39:55 RyeBrye: basically, it's the GCD of the big 3 platforms (would be nice of OS X supported NTFS, but oh well) Oct 23 06:40:15 ntfs is closed so.. Oct 23 06:40:16 NTFS? Yuck. Oct 23 06:40:34 And OSX supports NTFS as well as Linux does - using FUSE Oct 23 06:41:25 has anyone won the race to port android to another platform yet? Oct 23 06:41:35 or device, even Oct 23 06:42:53 not that I know of - but I know people are working on porting it to the Neo FreeRuner - but I think the lack of a software keyboard might be a bit of a deal breaker for usability for the time being Oct 23 06:43:31 anyone have any idea when android hardware is surfacing in europe Oct 23 06:43:36 g1 was release in the us recently wasnt it? Oct 23 06:43:39 i really hope a virtual keyboard comes out for quick text messages. Oct 23 06:43:59 RyeBrye: Linux supports non-FUSE NTFS Oct 23 06:45:01 RyeBrye: though admittedly I didn't realize that ntfs-3g used fuse Oct 23 06:45:11 gdsx - yeah, but... ntfs-3g is fuse :P Oct 23 06:45:14 oops - you beat me to it :) Oct 23 06:45:42 Mac OSX had read support for NTFS out of the box Oct 23 06:45:48 RyeBrye: but NTFS would be a big step up from FAT Oct 23 06:45:55 hmm... Oct 23 06:46:03 ntfs would be a step up Oct 23 06:46:08 ZFS would bea big step :) Oct 23 06:46:13 I think there's some inter-server lag somewhere Oct 23 06:46:18 Yeah. Oct 23 06:46:34 * gdsx nods Oct 23 06:46:45 ZFS would be pretty sweet - but I don't know how long it will be until the petabyte micro-SD cards come out Oct 23 06:46:50 probably at least another year or two ;) Oct 23 06:47:32 I wish ZFS weren't userspace Oct 23 06:47:55 .... I guess the reality is... FUSE on Android would be awesome :) Oct 23 06:48:03 sshfs would be pretty nice Oct 23 06:48:40 if 3G were reliable.... just sshfs mount your music directory of your home server... :) Oct 23 06:48:51 RyeBrye: it'd be a mixed bag. sshfs chokes pretty horribly when the connection has hickups Oct 23 06:49:09 Yeah, I'd probably only want to use something like that in a WiFi area Oct 23 06:50:05 I've not played with sshfs much on crappy connections - but I know SSH itself is pretty robust for bad networks - like I've pulled out the network cable accidently before and plugged it back in a minute or two later and my session wasn't interupted Oct 23 06:50:17 * waldo_ is back (gone 02:45:47) Oct 23 06:50:20 (it was to another machine in my local LAN - so that may have played a big part of it) Oct 23 06:51:01 RyeBrye: it works, but it pauses for a while until TCP gets its head back on straight Oct 23 06:51:49 we need openssh on android so we can skin the phone and customize it! Oct 23 06:52:10 RyeBrye: if you're not sending data over the wire when it has issues, then your fine. if you are (for instance, my irssi counts seconds), then it can take a pretty long while Oct 23 06:52:27 that makes sense Oct 23 06:53:10 mo0620: openssh is pretty big; 800kB for ssh and sshd Oct 23 06:53:26 and you'd need to create keys somehow, also, and all that other stuff Oct 23 06:53:54 oh...... Oct 23 06:54:22 or at least a way to view/change files on the actual phone not just memory card Oct 23 06:54:46 what kind of built in memory does the g1 have? does it support sdhc? Oct 23 06:54:57 it does support sdhc Oct 23 06:55:03 i think it has 256mb onboard Oct 23 06:55:27 ah Oct 23 06:56:39 http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=RaphaelLinux Oct 23 06:56:42 they're not doing too badly Oct 23 07:01:04 outbriber, microSDHC Oct 23 07:02:22 I actually didn't know that existed.. Oct 23 07:03:23 yeah.. t-mobile printed "SD card" many places, and plenty of people went and bought SD cards instead of microSD cards Oct 23 07:03:32 outbriber here are the specs http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html Oct 23 07:09:42 languish, outbriber: note that it does work with 16GB micro-SD cards Oct 23 07:10:11 yep, and if 32GB ever come, may work with them as well Oct 23 07:10:28 Cool. Oct 23 07:13:03 hey guys, i need a little direction. i have an arraylist of objects that i want to populate a view table with, but i can't find good info on how to dynamically create the table as i loop through the array list. any links in mind for me? Oct 23 07:16:45 WOOHOO! PAC-MAN WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oct 23 07:18:31 and the Video Player's available in the Market!!!!!!!!!!!1 Oct 23 07:18:40 Now we're gettin somewhere baby Oct 23 07:18:59 google elves workin into the wee hours 'eh Oct 23 07:25:46 Hey - does the Video Player play back h264 stuff encoded for the iPhone? Oct 23 07:29:17 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 23 07:30:00 hi is anyone able to successfully compile android source code from their repository? Oct 23 07:32:02 anybody there? Oct 23 07:32:28 Could someone tell me how frequently the app Locale is updating the position of the device? (does it drain down the battery life very much? ) Oct 23 07:33:21 languish, is there a way to get apk's from the market? Oct 23 07:33:46  hi is anyone able to successfully compile android source code from their repository? Oct 23 07:34:02 can you use the market on the emulator? Oct 23 07:34:20 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:05:03) Oct 23 07:34:23 philsw: i have the same question Oct 23 07:35:24 hi Oct 23 07:35:29 welcome all!!! Oct 23 07:37:11 covalentbond_: doesn't look like it Oct 23 07:37:30 i like how the webpage tells us to get a device and start working on it Oct 23 07:37:37 pity the device isn't available outside the US! Oct 23 07:38:08 philsw: i've got the app off of the phone, but the filesystem on the emulator is read only Oct 23 07:38:24 give it time Oct 23 07:39:00 if android is ported to another device, will the android market be available on that? Oct 23 07:39:35 should be Oct 23 07:39:42 the market is not g1 specific Oct 23 07:39:51 anyone from android tech. team here? Oct 23 07:40:23 from what i read the apps shown will be determined by the devices capabilities (gps apps will not show on gps'less devices) but that could be a rumor Oct 23 07:41:00 rupeshmg: i'm about to compile it now. going through the process of formatting an external drive to support it (won't compile on a case-insensitive HFS+ filesystem) Oct 23 07:41:47 anyone have jham's url for the video player handy? Oct 23 07:42:02 covalentbond_: i m facing problems while compiling Oct 23 07:42:13 covalentbond_: do tell me ur experience Oct 23 07:42:47 covalentbond_ - you can just create a disk image in dsk utility to do it Oct 23 07:43:19 covalentbond_ - that's a lot easier than reformating, IMO... that's how I'm doing it now. It's probably a little slower performance wise, but it's a lot better convenience wise Oct 23 07:43:38 um, yeah. sure is. Oct 23 07:43:45 much smarter Oct 23 07:44:11 I mentioned earlier that they should REALLY put that on the instructions page - since it'd probably save a lot of people a lot of hassle Oct 23 07:44:14 RyeBrye: r u able to sucessfully compile it? Oct 23 07:44:18 It's compiling now Oct 23 07:44:26 should be able to load it into the emulator, right? Oct 23 07:44:30 once compiled, that is... Oct 23 07:44:40 I would assume so Oct 23 07:45:09 oooh, i hadnt thought of that Oct 23 07:45:14 i need an updated image lol Oct 23 07:45:21 http://dillernet.com/apple/2008/10/22/starting-android-open-source-emulator/ Oct 23 07:45:44 that guy talks about launching the emulator once it's built Oct 23 07:46:22 I also assume that the make isn't parallel by default - so doing make -j4 or so would speed things up if you have multiple cores? Oct 23 07:46:28 hopefully there is a way to get apk files from the market Oct 23 07:46:49 * DarkriftX goes to bed Oct 23 07:46:55 i'm about to find out myself Oct 23 07:46:58 gn all, and happy droidhacking Oct 23 07:47:11 Hmm.... bluez utils looks like it IS being used in Android Oct 23 07:47:19 * RyeBrye smiles Oct 23 07:47:41 damn I hate how long it takes to compile C/C++ stuff Oct 23 07:48:14 It's interesting that they don't force you to build your own cross compilers, which is nice Oct 23 07:51:11 There's some interesting stuff getting compiled in there... dropbear... bluez utils... tcpdump... Oct 23 07:51:35 looks like there should be plenty of stuff to play with :) Oct 23 07:52:31 RyeBrye:: looks u r progressing quiet good on compiling, i m not able to reach that far too Oct 23 07:53:22 facing problem like this:- Oct 23 07:53:23 Checking API: checkapi-last Oct 23 07:53:24 build/core/api/1.xml:273231: error 1: required string: "method" Oct 23 07:53:24 ****************************** Oct 23 07:53:24 You have tried to change the API from what has been previously released in Oct 23 07:53:24 an SDK.  Please fix the errors listed above. Oct 23 07:53:25 ****************************** Oct 23 07:53:27 make: *** [out/target/common/obj/PACKAGING/checkapi-last-timestamp] Error 38 Oct 23 07:53:56 RyeBrye: Any clue on how to resolve it? Oct 23 07:56:20 rye: there are a number of different build configurations. "engineering" builds have a lot of extra goodies that are not standard in "production" builds Oct 23 07:57:19 swetland: i m just clonning it from repository Oct 23 08:00:20 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 23 08:00:53 anyone know where i can find the Maps app in the git source? Oct 23 08:01:23 rupeshmg - hmm... no idea... sorry... I'm just lucky I guess Oct 23 08:01:34 so anyone got the dirt on an VOIP apps coming out? crappy iSkoot still uses voice/data of carrier Oct 23 08:01:50 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:01:30) Oct 23 08:02:19 Heck, I want to run a full-blown Asterisk pbx on this little bitch! ;) Oct 23 08:02:26 (my router can do it, after all) Oct 23 08:02:28 and they won't be allowed in the marketplace, i've heard. Oct 23 08:02:36 I thought they would be allowed Oct 23 08:02:51 voip apps? Oct 23 08:02:55 is what i meant Oct 23 08:02:57 Yeah Oct 23 08:03:05 Where did you hear they wouldn't be allowed? Oct 23 08:03:15 I always heard pretty much anything goes with the market Oct 23 08:03:23 http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/09/three-years-and.html Oct 23 08:03:46 quote: Oct 23 08:03:48 he said he had "worked with Google" to make sure Android couldn't run VOIP. "We want to be open in a way that consumers can rely on, Oct 23 08:04:17 Yeah, let me see if I can find another one I read about that Oct 23 08:05:07 k Oct 23 08:05:43 it does seem like hearsay. but it seems in line. google is taking apps through an 'approval' process, and there is a killswitch. Oct 23 08:06:12 there's an approval process? news to me! Oct 23 08:06:29 Is the killswitch implemented in code that is open source? Oct 23 08:06:36 I'll go comment that shit out Oct 23 08:07:05 well there's a killswitch. how to they know what to kill and what to not kill/ Oct 23 08:07:07 ? Oct 23 08:07:14 there's a process. Oct 23 08:07:50 swajak, the kill switch is only fro apps you get from the market Oct 23 08:08:07 you can load apps from places other than the market, right? Oct 23 08:08:17 if you install from microSD or another website, it doesn't apply Oct 23 08:08:21 yes Oct 23 08:08:24 Good Oct 23 08:08:53 ah, kk. yes, that's why i asked about voip, because i thought even if they don't allow it, it will probably still be available Oct 23 08:09:19 Skype would have to be nuts to not get their crap on there pronto Oct 23 08:10:02 the rest of the industry is watching to see how this goes Oct 23 08:10:04 And I'm kind of surprised this phone doesn't have the Wifi stuff that T-mobile already has in place with some other phones - that will place calls over wifi if it's available Oct 23 08:10:28 anyone know where i can find the Maps app in the git source? if it's even there Oct 23 08:10:46 no, but I'm confident grep could find it for you Oct 23 08:10:58 or find Oct 23 08:11:08 or if it doesn't... it's probably not there? Oct 23 08:11:20 doesn't look that they had released it Oct 23 08:11:35 i am all for ditching my $55+ monthly for a $10/month skype since i'm always in Wifi. Oct 23 08:12:14 maps apps isn't in source, they said Oct 23 08:12:20 anything tieing into googles servers Oct 23 08:12:21 i think Oct 23 08:12:23 if you don't want to take calls - it'd be even cheaper than $10 / month :) Oct 23 08:12:29 yea, i wasn't expecting them too... pretty much a money maker for them.. i just wanted to see its AndroidManifest.xml really Oct 23 08:13:05 oh ok thanks, i didn't see that note Oct 23 08:13:22 If you get the apk file, can't you just unzip it? Oct 23 08:13:51 does apk contains source code? Oct 23 08:14:17 no, but I think it's like a jar file - and in jar files the manifest is just in plain text next to the compiled class files and such Oct 23 08:14:47 or does the AndroidManifest get compiled in? Oct 23 08:15:51 still waiting for first successfull compilation... :( Oct 23 08:16:05 of source, rupeshmg? Oct 23 08:16:07 dont know how many glitches still there :( Oct 23 08:16:10 yup Oct 23 08:16:18 swajak Oct 23 08:16:23 yeah i ran into several missing libraries during mine Oct 23 08:16:24 pain Oct 23 08:16:45 r u able to do it successfully? Oct 23 08:16:49 yeah Oct 23 08:16:53 even loaded up the img into the emulator Oct 23 08:16:57 whats changes that u did? can u share? Oct 23 08:17:27 i didn't change anything, just successfully built and loaded it up... Oct 23 08:17:42 does it say anything when it finishes? Oct 23 08:17:46 waiting on technique for flashing my G1, and then I'll be hacking/testing Oct 23 08:17:48 mine just ended, and i don't see any errors Oct 23 08:18:45 getting following error:- Oct 23 08:18:46 build/core/product_config.mk:229: WARNING: adding test OTA key Oct 23 08:18:46 Checking API: checkapi-last Oct 23 08:18:46 build/core/api/1.xml:273231: error 1: required string: "method" Oct 23 08:18:46 ****************************** Oct 23 08:18:46 You have tried to change the API from what has been previously released in Oct 23 08:18:48 an SDK.  Please fix the errors listed above. Oct 23 08:18:50 ****************************** Oct 23 08:18:52 make: *** [out/target/common/obj/PACKAGING/checkapi-last-timestamp] Error 38 Oct 23 08:18:52 it dumps everything in an 'out' folder... you'll find an image file buried in there somewheres... and you can overwrite the SDK emulator's image with it and load it up Oct 23 08:19:49 what changes did you do, rupeshmg? Oct 23 08:20:00 seems you're conflicting with SDK compatibility Oct 23 08:20:10 no changes.. just followed their instructions Oct 23 08:20:19 on ubuntu? Oct 23 08:20:28 or mac? Oct 23 08:20:28 is it? swajak? nop on fedora Oct 23 08:20:47 and i have installed old version of sdk long time back Oct 23 08:21:13 is it required to unistall old version of android sdk? Oct 23 08:21:24 hmm, i've no clue... i'd guess its the build environment Oct 23 08:21:31 no, sdk doesn't matter (or shouldn't) Oct 23 08:21:53 i compiled mine on Ubuntu, and i didn't get an error like that Oct 23 08:22:15 what version of the jdk? Oct 23 08:22:27 1.5 with latest update Oct 23 08:22:27 I've seen issues with stuff other than recent sun jdk 1.5 Oct 23 08:22:30 off the sun website Oct 23 08:22:44 jdk-1.6.0_10-fcs Oct 23 08:22:58 Java SE Runtime Environment (JRE) 6 Update 10 Oct 23 08:23:01 there u go, swetland got you Oct 23 08:23:13 you need 1.5 Oct 23 08:23:24 Hm... I just got an error " Could not load 'clearsilver-jni' " - and it's late Oct 23 08:23:27 so... I'm off to bed Oct 23 08:23:29 later version wont work? Oct 23 08:23:41 nope Oct 23 08:24:11 that was stated in the directions, i think Oct 23 08:24:16 or i thought Oct 23 08:24:31 ohh i see.. i think they should mention it on their website Oct 23 08:25:01 quote "JDK 5.0, update 12 or higher, which you can download from java.sun.com" from their site Oct 23 08:25:10 lol Oct 23 08:25:16 i see where its confusing Oct 23 08:25:16 "JDK 5.0, update 12 or higher"... last time I checked JDK 6 >= JDK5 - so they have to be a bit more specific Oct 23 08:25:27 "update 12 or higher"... higher refers to update Oct 23 08:25:29 i think Oct 23 08:26:08 could have been better worded Oct 23 08:26:34 so am I required to install 1.5 ? Oct 23 08:26:38 Yeah... like "Java 6 wont work" Oct 23 08:26:50 I'm going to set my java home to 1.5 and let it rebuild... I wonder if I have to do a clean rebuild Oct 23 08:26:55 ... might as well - I'm going to bed now anyway Oct 23 08:27:33 swajak, what do u suggest ? 1.5 will solve problem? Oct 23 08:28:00 i'd think that's your best bet Oct 23 08:28:07 i did it with 1.5 update 16 i think Oct 23 08:28:33 all rite, let me check out. thanks swajak Oct 23 08:28:39 np Oct 23 08:29:40 err Oct 23 08:29:50 whats version no. from sun java site? Oct 23 08:29:57 hmm, will there be any new build at least of the emulator any time soon? Oct 23 08:30:34 sry i've been saying 1.5 when i mean 5.0 Oct 23 08:30:50 JDK 5.0 Update 16 Oct 23 08:30:55 i cant find JDK 5.0 at http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp Oct 23 08:31:04 where can i get it? Oct 23 08:31:11 http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index_jdk5.jsp Oct 23 08:31:21 its under previous releases on that page Oct 23 08:31:28 that page you linked* Oct 23 08:32:23 k. thanks Oct 23 08:33:23 im out too, i gotta study for a test, and then go on a farcry 2 binge Oct 23 08:33:32 g'night Oct 23 08:34:11 Hello, World! Oct 23 08:36:43 good night swajak, and all the best Oct 23 08:43:24 Hey I have a silly question Oct 23 08:43:57 does anybody know if there is a way to get the sources of the Java framework only Oct 23 08:44:11 without having to get the "whole deal" Oct 23 08:44:30 and if not, is there any plan to make that available somewhere Oct 23 08:44:45 since I suspect 99% of developpers will only care about that Oct 23 08:46:02 (not that I don't like git and all) Oct 23 08:46:43 u can clone that specific git Oct 23 08:47:06 (but a simple android-1.0-sources.jar download somewhere would have been a bit easier) Oct 23 08:48:28 yup u can get it from git... Oct 23 08:48:38 go to that particular git Oct 23 08:48:44 aand click on snapshot Oct 23 08:49:01 oh? Oct 23 08:49:02 u can receive it as a single tar ball Oct 23 08:49:06 yup... Oct 23 08:49:06 ahhh Oct 23 08:49:18 nice! I'll have a look Oct 23 08:49:22 http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/external/emma.git;a=snapshot;h=a0c5294bd396e480cbf850bde283a94042526698;sf=tgz Oct 23 08:49:32 try above just as a example Oct 23 08:50:18 seems to be empty Oct 23 08:51:50 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 23 08:52:33 ok it works! thanks a lot Oct 23 08:53:46 welcome Oct 23 09:04:25 anyone tried to build android source on fedora 9? Oct 23 09:04:43 some of the required lib files are not in yum.. Oct 23 09:06:31 hi all Oct 23 09:06:43 is it true that Android is now opensource ? Oct 23 09:06:52 yep Oct 23 09:06:58 look at the title Oct 23 09:07:00 I mean all the code ... and we can modify it as we want ? Oct 23 09:07:08 yeah Oct 23 09:07:37 aLeSD_, there will still be some unreleased code.. but android base code itself is open Oct 23 09:07:46 wow ... that's a really good news Oct 23 09:08:02 languish: what code ? Oct 23 09:08:08 security code ? Oct 23 09:08:25 ... let's see ... Oct 23 09:08:28 an example Oct 23 09:08:33 whatever proprietary stuff corps don't want to share, like the gchat stuff Oct 23 09:08:37 can I compile and use isrcrack ? Oct 23 09:08:41 aircrack ? Oct 23 09:08:48 dunno Oct 23 09:08:55 * languish not a dev Oct 23 09:08:58 on g1? Oct 23 09:09:06 on an Android system Oct 23 09:09:14 what device? Oct 23 09:09:22 in general ... I don't mind on the hw Oct 23 09:09:41 it's only to know if I could use it Oct 23 09:09:44 it would depend on the wifi driver Oct 23 09:10:01 or the unreleased parts will proibe me to Oct 23 09:10:14 but you would have to make a frontend for android Oct 23 09:10:17 tmzf you answered to my answer Oct 23 09:10:26 or you could just run a different linux Oct 23 09:10:26 that a rellay good news Oct 23 09:10:59 wifi driver was released, ti.git Oct 23 09:11:07 It's time to earn money to buy a android based mobil Oct 23 09:13:18 muthu__: Haven't tried myself, but there were some patches fixing header includes aimed at getting things compiling on Fedora 9 Oct 23 09:13:45 hamdroid: yeah, searching the web ;) Oct 23 09:18:32 hi, everyone android noob here now that it is open source has anyone compiled it in 64bit? Oct 23 09:18:55 seeya all Oct 23 09:20:01 anyone managed to unlock the tmobile g1? Oct 23 09:20:47 snid, give it another 72 minutes and we'll get right on that for ya Oct 23 09:20:54 jercia, which parts of android do you hope will benefit from "64 bit"? Do you mean x64? Oct 23 09:21:14 languish: ?? Oct 23 09:21:28 yeah the x64, the emulator. Oct 23 09:21:46 so I don't have to do multilib or chroot to try it out. Oct 23 09:21:50 languish: you're joking or seriously looking into it? Oct 23 09:21:56 o.O Oct 23 09:21:58 jercia, so you want the emulator compiled for x64? Oct 23 09:22:06 ok.. let's put it this way... Oct 23 09:22:21 snid, give it another 72 minutes and we'll get right on that for ya Oct 23 09:22:36 mkay, im gonna start trying now Oct 23 09:22:50 snid, t-mobile is going to unlock the phones for all of their customers after 60 days or so. Oct 23 09:22:57 90 days Oct 23 09:23:00 lol Oct 23 09:23:03 jercia: you dont have to chroot the emulator, you only need some 32bit libs maybe. im using it since months on a x64 debian Oct 23 09:23:03 whatever Oct 23 09:23:04 impatient bugger Oct 23 09:23:09 at least he has a goal Oct 23 09:23:11 yeah, Maybe someone has already tried it. I was planning to make a package for it for archlinux. Oct 23 09:23:15 beat tmo to unlocking Oct 23 09:23:24 the cheapest plan is 30 a month Oct 23 09:23:25 wtf Oct 23 09:23:33 i dont have that kind of cash Oct 23 09:23:44 then you can't afford a cell phone Oct 23 09:23:45 plus the data plan Oct 23 09:23:54 i was willing to pay 399 if i didnt get any plan at all Oct 23 09:24:05 what on earth for? Oct 23 09:24:27 so he could be the 58th canadian with a g1 on the block Oct 23 09:24:37 :\ Oct 23 09:24:37 I've also successfully installed it using a 32bit chroot but if I can go all 64bit that would be better. Oct 23 09:24:42 qemu will build on x86_64, don't know if the patches broke that Oct 23 09:24:48 no.. so i can use it outside of tmobile coverage Oct 23 09:25:03 you can easily buy a linux box with no networking for under $399 Oct 23 09:25:25 OK, maybe it would take a little effort Oct 23 09:25:25 they were telling me the 3g coverage is a special frequency thats in the hardware and cant be changed by software Oct 23 09:25:48 snid, nice troll Oct 23 09:26:27 i think it can prob be changed Oct 23 09:26:35 encontrado, what.. ? you took him seriously? Oct 23 09:26:46 :| Oct 23 09:26:58 also will we see a python interpreter for android? maybe JPython? I'm no java hacker and i've never tried jpython though. Oct 23 09:27:13 snid, it can already be used outside the US Oct 23 09:27:20 languish, only as someone to abuse remorselessly until I pass out Oct 23 09:27:33 but even that's a fail :( Oct 23 09:27:34 tmzt: I have the i386 emu running on x86_64 linux Oct 23 09:27:39 indeed Oct 23 09:27:40 i want it unlocked.. even if that means no 3g Oct 23 09:27:58 unlocked you can do Oct 23 09:28:08 buy it with a plan and tell them you're travelling to europe Oct 23 09:28:14 ding, unlock Oct 23 09:28:44 MrSnowflake: of course there is no reason it won't work with the right libs, I guess Oct 23 09:29:04 in ubuntu 8.10 it works out of the box Oct 23 09:29:34 not sure if you were talking about linux though :) Oct 23 09:29:39 yeah Oct 23 09:31:13 so how do you get a root shell on the tmobile g1 Oct 23 09:32:11 local priv escalation for <=2.6.25 ? Oct 23 09:33:15 is rootfs signed too? Oct 23 09:34:06 and, uh, tell me where to get a pda with a keyboard that fits in your pocket Oct 23 09:34:12 other than sl5500/sl6000 Oct 23 09:34:20 tytn 2 Oct 23 09:34:37 that's a phone, was responding to something earlier Oct 23 09:34:50 k, sorry :) Oct 23 09:35:13 why someone would get a smartphone and no plan Oct 23 09:35:26 kaiser? Oct 23 09:36:44 define "keyboard" Oct 23 09:37:18 snid: there was config file for init in the only image I saw for sdk, I think it could be made to start a shell Oct 23 09:37:30 init.goldfish.sh? Oct 23 09:37:33 can someone get /proc/config.gz? Oct 23 09:37:37 the G1 falls well short of the pc 104-key standard Oct 23 09:38:08 no, but its better than most in number of keys Oct 23 09:38:53 I don't accept a priori the idea of "more keys is better" Oct 23 09:39:20 i need to feel the touch pro keyboard again Oct 23 09:39:32 encontrado: for text messages on mobile devices it's true though Oct 23 09:39:41 I need to feel the touch of another human being again, before I die. Oct 23 09:39:48 see how much difference i notice now that i've been using the g1 Oct 23 09:39:53 but that's not germaine Oct 23 09:40:10 encontrado, my response would be too inappropriate for this channel Oct 23 09:40:11 :| Oct 23 09:40:27 tmzt: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=commit;h=c092738e01ab845dc7406dc1b53589b1f9edebbc Oct 23 09:40:43 MrSnowflake, I don't feel your unsupported assertion merits consideration. Oct 23 09:41:34 encontrado: I find it a lot easier to type text messages (or mails) on a 'full' keyboard device instead of a 12 button device Oct 23 09:41:52 As with the 'full' keyboard you (at least me) are a lot faster. Oct 23 09:41:57 /system/etc/init.conf Oct 23 09:42:09 I have a simple solution to this problem Oct 23 09:42:13 do not reply to txt messages. Oct 23 09:42:16 the end Oct 23 09:42:33 duey: doesn't work if your girl sends them to you... Oct 23 09:42:46 call Oct 23 09:42:48 tell her to only send picture messages Oct 23 09:42:52 ^^++ Oct 23 09:42:58 swetland: ok, you are saying its defconfig? Oct 23 09:43:04 MrSnowflake, then either you haven't used the right 12-button device, or you haven't acclimated yourself to a well-thought-out 12-button device. See: 20 years worth of research in "wearable" computers Oct 23 09:43:04 hehe, but those are more expensive! Oct 23 09:43:21 MrSnowflake, so? bitch better get a job Oct 23 09:43:22 MrSnowflake, not really, you can say more in a minute than you can with 20 txt messages Oct 23 09:43:23 :| Oct 23 09:43:30 8-button device, even Oct 23 09:43:48 1-button, learn morse code Oct 23 09:43:49 encontrado: I had 6 12button devices and all aren't as good as my 'full' keyboard htc wizard Oct 23 09:44:04 but he said pc-104, the number means something Oct 23 09:44:23 yeah, he's an elitist full sized keyboard snob Oct 23 09:44:24 MrSnowflake, so either you've had 6 crappy 12-button devices, or you're really bad at learning new input systems. Oct 23 09:44:26 :) Oct 23 09:44:46 tmzt is actually on to something, there Oct 23 09:44:58 that, or he can press teh teeeeny weeeny wittle bwutton one. at. a. time. Oct 23 09:45:03 could be, but I still beat my friends using the 12 button devices, with or without t9 Oct 23 09:45:29 compare your input rate with a G1 to a trained, no-longer-existing telegraph operator Oct 23 09:45:47 oh they'[re rapid fire mofos Oct 23 09:46:17 I was comparing the G1 and a 12 button keyboard, not a I don't know how many buttons typewriter/ pc keyboard Oct 23 09:46:45 You were comparing apples and ostriches Oct 23 09:46:59 i think the morse code record was like 70+wpm Oct 23 09:47:10 than what were you doing? Oct 23 09:47:43 this really is a pointless convo, though I'm sure you both have excellent points Oct 23 09:48:05 hmm, yeah Oct 23 09:48:18 together not apart Oct 23 09:48:28 tmzt: we configure the kernel with make msm_defconfig Oct 23 09:48:33 it's not like the g1's gonna proud a buncha new keys Oct 23 09:48:41 *sprout Oct 23 09:49:01 tmzt: if you want to be absolutely sure, check out the android-msm-htc-2.6.25 branch and do that (ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-eabi) and the .config should match production Oct 23 09:49:18 so anyway, anyone have jham's url for the video player handy? Oct 23 09:50:32 CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y Oct 23 09:51:02 no UINPUT, odd Oct 23 09:51:52 setland: is there any news on binary snapshot releases the next weeks? Oct 23 09:52:31 I'm hoping to have the goodies to do a basic build for dream together tomorrow afternoon Oct 23 09:53:05 there's also the thing where the G1 keyboard is just, well, a keyboard, and not the Standard Android Keyboard Oct 23 09:53:07 there's a lot of misery involved in distributing the proprietary qct/htc pieces, so we're probably going to go the "have a script to adb pull them off of a device" route Oct 23 09:53:48 I guess it's the standard until some other manufacturer gets off their duff, though, eh Oct 23 09:57:05 CONFIG_HEY_WHAT_ABOUT_BLIND_DUDES=1 Oct 23 09:58:09 that's braile support, not configured but there's no serial port anyway Oct 23 09:58:48 all these tools you guys are looking for to port to android, even though they're c code, they exist for linux cli Oct 23 09:59:28 YEAH, TAKE THAT, BLIND DUDES Oct 23 09:59:39 EVERYTHING IS ALREADY THERE, RIGHT IN PLAIN SIGHT Oct 23 09:59:58 ugh Oct 23 10:00:04 and it's begun Oct 23 10:00:15 hehe Oct 23 10:00:18 I'm sorry Oct 23 10:00:18 some idiot spamming #andywarez on another network Oct 23 10:00:20 it's late Oct 23 10:00:29 oh, I thought you meant me Oct 23 10:00:35 who're you? Oct 23 10:00:43 o.O Oct 23 10:00:54 who, indeed? Oct 23 10:00:59 who are any of us? Oct 23 10:01:09 anyone know where the sim unlock code is in the android source? Oct 23 10:01:47 I do. Oct 23 10:02:06 how much are you willing to pay? Oct 23 10:02:21 nothing Oct 23 10:02:27 python, is there a python interpreter for android Oct 23 10:02:28 you dont know Oct 23 10:02:32 then no sim unlock code for you, skippy. Oct 23 10:03:12 jercia asked Oct 23 10:03:13 tmzt, which layer of android are you talking about? Oct 23 10:04:17 that was a question asked earlier in this channel Oct 23 10:04:30 as well as aircrack, but that needs driver support too Oct 23 10:10:01 jercia: you still here? Oct 23 10:10:42 Q: is there for this here java platform? Oct 23 10:10:49 A: ... Oct 23 10:11:15 ok, you asked about layers, what did you mean? Oct 23 10:11:32 because I see a java platform (davlik), and a linux platform Oct 23 10:12:16 the capitalized stuff was configs from the linux kernel configuration .config Oct 23 10:12:42 it means a feature was enabled in the g1 kernel if it is same as production as swetland (from google) said Oct 23 10:13:03 in this case, framebuffer console and virtual terminals are there Oct 23 10:13:35 if init runs as root and it can be configured then a terminal could be launched like any other linux device Oct 23 10:13:50 unless davlik ignores chvt Oct 23 10:14:19 let's play "count the ifs" Oct 23 10:14:23 there is security to prevent processes from sending things on the network without permission Oct 23 10:15:46 I think I've got 5 of them in your reasoning, there Oct 23 10:16:39 p->q Oct 23 10:17:20 whats zygote? Oct 23 10:17:26 858 # CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE is not set Oct 23 10:17:34 oh Oct 23 10:18:01 zygote is the secret software bundle that gives you root access to any G1 phone, anyhere. Oct 23 10:18:16 that was the msm_defconfig in the commit you pasted Oct 23 10:18:20 859 Oct 23 10:18:25 we yanked fbcon after wasting time debugging the Nth race/deadlock we encountered related to console switching and suspend/resume Oct 23 10:18:37 yes Oct 23 10:18:53 makes sense for a device like this, Oct 23 10:19:08 X has to deal with this for now, but that should go away with kms Oct 23 10:19:08 considering we never use the text console it was easier just to turn the silly thing off Oct 23 10:19:24 fun, so jni to a pty? Oct 23 10:19:40 and the guy on my team who was the one big textconsole fan was on vacation that week Oct 23 10:19:49 heh Oct 23 10:21:59 the thing is, your text-console fan can likely still do all of his work in text consoles, even when he's working on a system that doesn't support them anymore Oct 23 10:22:41 I know a guy at MS who's been on the kernel team for over 15 years who still spends his entire day in a linux text console Oct 23 10:23:31 debugging third-party drivers, mostly Oct 23 10:24:10 often without source Oct 23 10:25:08 swetland: i tried installing JDK 5.0 Update 16, but still unable to build android from sources. Oct 23 10:25:39 error :- Oct 23 10:25:40 Install: out/host/linux-x86/framework/apicheck.jar Oct 23 10:25:40 Copy: apicheck (out/host/linux-x86/obj/EXECUTABLES/apicheck_intermediates/apicheck) Oct 23 10:25:40 Install: out/host/linux-x86/bin/apicheck Oct 23 10:25:40 Checking API: checkapi-last Oct 23 10:25:40 build/core/api/1.xml:273231: error 1: required string: "method" Oct 23 10:25:42 ****************************** Oct 23 10:25:44 You have tried to change the API from what has been previously released in Oct 23 10:25:46 an SDK. Please fix the errors listed above. Oct 23 10:25:48 ****************************** Oct 23 10:25:50 make: *** [out/target/common/obj/PACKAGING/checkapi-last-timestamp] Error 38 Oct 23 10:25:54 no idea. Oct 23 10:28:20 * encontrado makes small offering to Teh Gods in thanks of no longer being in charge of a Large Software Build Oct 23 10:28:42 where is com.android.phone.SimProvider ? Oct 23 10:29:03 snid, it's on your SIM card. Oct 23 10:29:06 just clone it. Oct 23 10:29:15 more lies Oct 23 10:29:24 encontrado: thats only thing i can do :( Oct 23 10:29:41 rupeshmg, you have my utmost sympathy Oct 23 10:30:35 rupeshmg: I also have about the same error Oct 23 10:30:39 I can't imagine going back to my days of "I had no idea a makefile could do that, let alone do that without anyone realizing what it was up to" Oct 23 10:31:21 Wander_w : wow... so I got the company :) Oct 23 10:31:25 Install: out/host/linux-x86/bin/apicheck Oct 23 10:31:25 Checking API: checkapi-last Oct 23 10:31:25 (unknown): error 17: Field android.hardware.SensorManager.LIGHT_NO_MOON has changed value from 0.0010f to 0.001f Oct 23 10:31:25 ****************************** Oct 23 10:31:25 You have tried to change the API from what has been previously released in Oct 23 10:31:27 an SDK. Please fix the errors listed above. Oct 23 10:31:29 ****************************** Oct 23 10:31:41 snid, you keep on barfing up the "I want to hack your phones" crap, and I'll keep on barfing up the lies. Oct 23 10:31:44 Deal? Oct 23 10:32:03 is android.hardware even in the public api? Oct 23 10:32:03 Wander_w : welcome Wander_w to my party Oct 23 10:32:09 i dont want to hack your phones Oct 23 10:32:13 i want to hack my phone Oct 23 10:32:17 oh, no, of course not. Oct 23 10:32:37 rupeshmg: my plan is to wait until tonight and try again, hopeing some other developer has solved it in the meantime Oct 23 10:32:42 snid, if you want to hack your own phone, then you're in the wrong channel Oct 23 10:32:50 this channel is about android-based phones Oct 23 10:32:54 and you don't own one. Oct 23 10:33:00 i have a tmobile g1 Oct 23 10:33:12 I sincerely doubt that. Oct 23 10:33:16 got it today Oct 23 10:33:34 how would you like me to prove it to you? Oct 23 10:33:48 im running adb to get a shell as uid 2000 Oct 23 10:33:54 If you'd really got it today, you'd still be messing around with it, figuring out how everything works Oct 23 10:34:01 ya i did that already Oct 23 10:34:21 i think there needs to be a way to reach the setup wizard again... so you can use more than 1 google account Oct 23 10:34:23 ya Oct 23 10:34:27 I can see my house!!! ok, done. Oct 23 10:34:37 snid, there is Oct 23 10:34:39 Wander_w :all rite, lets hope it gets resolved Oct 23 10:34:42 i had to reset to defaults Oct 23 10:34:45 so how? Oct 23 10:34:46 reset to factory defaults Oct 23 10:34:50 ya thats lame Oct 23 10:35:09 why cant you just change google accounts/profiles or something Oct 23 10:35:21 Wander_w: in between can u also send it to android-platform mailing list? Oct 23 10:35:32 so you still dont believe i have a tmobile g1? Oct 23 10:35:44 no. Oct 23 10:35:45 rupeshmg: no, not really... I'm supposed to do my real job ;) Oct 23 10:35:59 i had already posted it. so that google ppl will come out of sleep... and provide some fix.. Oct 23 10:36:02 you want to see the boot log? from adb logcat? Oct 23 10:36:21 rnis, the things you're bitching about are all over every message board on the interweb Oct 23 10:36:28 there is a decorator that says if the api is supposed to be used by an app Oct 23 10:36:37 yeah, that's a python term, sorry Oct 23 10:36:43 snid: why do you care if he believe you or not...? Oct 23 10:36:50 heh Oct 23 10:37:09 just asking him Oct 23 10:37:33 if you're asking, you care. Oct 23 10:37:41 the sales person who sold me it told me about 80k phones were sold so far Oct 23 10:38:23 so do you believe me or not? Oct 23 10:38:33 why do you care? Oct 23 10:38:45 you think that 80k figure isn't on some blog somewhere? Oct 23 10:39:04 i duno Oct 23 10:39:15 if I don't believe you have a G1, what difference does it make? Oct 23 10:39:31 you were saying i wanted to hack your phone Oct 23 10:39:31 just make a picture of yourself with the phone, a newspaper of today and the current time Oct 23 10:39:39 ha no Oct 23 10:39:53 Do you think you'll have better luck finding help to violate your terms of service in this channel, if I believe you? Oct 23 10:39:59 no Oct 23 10:40:03 im not trying to Oct 23 10:40:19 i just trying to learn more about the android platform on the g1 Oct 23 10:40:23 Wander_w: good stuff Oct 23 10:40:40 snid, then download the api, and the emulator Oct 23 10:40:50 write some non-service-violating apps Oct 23 10:41:18 like how to go from uid 2000 to uid 1001 Oct 23 10:41:24 it will teach you a lot more than you're going to learn fishing for crackz in an irc channel Oct 23 10:41:39 or 0 Oct 23 10:41:51 1 step at a time Oct 23 10:42:04 anyway, the phone chipset is divided into two cores Oct 23 10:42:11 yeah, but you're trying to take the 10,000,000th step first. Oct 23 10:42:17 tmzt: four ^^ Oct 23 10:42:20 but all the android source is available right? so where can i read com.android.phone.SimProvider ? Oct 23 10:42:32 one runs the secure amss microkernel form qualcomm and can be used to do evil things with the baseband Oct 23 10:43:02 back to trolling Oct 23 10:43:03 it is protected from the other one which runs the operating system (such as linux) and the applications (such as davlik and the android .jar) Oct 23 10:43:16 snid, it's on your SIM card. Oct 23 10:43:22 swetland: yeah, true. trying to simplify here. Oct 23 10:43:40 there is a shared memory interface between the two Oct 23 10:43:47 encontrado: serious? so why does it load when i use a different sim card? Oct 23 10:44:04 and a fake serial port implementing the AT command set from your old hayes modem with some enhancements Oct 23 10:44:14 snid, oh, it's on the other SIM card, too Oct 23 10:44:16 ~/android$ find | grep -i sim | wc -l Oct 23 10:44:16 583 Oct 23 10:44:18 you can also walk into t-mobile and get a card to plug into your computer Oct 23 10:44:34 which emulates a few usb serial ports Oct 23 10:44:34 encontrado: why would it be on a cingular sim card? Oct 23 10:45:03 snid, it's a mapping, not a hard-coding. Oct 23 10:45:06 you can send any at command you want to to that card that it supports Oct 23 10:45:35 you can even connect to the internet and setup a ppp session on one of those serial ports Oct 23 10:45:40 package com.android.phone; Oct 23 10:45:40 /** Oct 23 10:45:40 * SIM address book content provider. Oct 23 10:45:40 */ Oct 23 10:45:40 public class SimProvider extends com.android.internal.telephony.gsm.SimProvider { Oct 23 10:45:41 public SimProvider() { Oct 23 10:45:41 the same is true of the g1 Oct 23 10:45:43 super(); Oct 23 10:45:45 } Oct 23 10:45:47 } Oct 23 10:45:49 lol Oct 23 10:45:53 snid: abd shell getprop ro.build.fingerprint Oct 23 10:46:28 swetland, don't confuse him Oct 23 10:46:38 [gsm.sim.state]: [NETWORK_LOCKED] Oct 23 10:46:43 he's only read blog comments whining about it Oct 23 10:46:51 anyone know if it would be POSSIBLE (not easy) to cross-compile for a Intel XScale PXA272 chip? It's ARM5 but it doesn't have the Jazelle enhancement i don't think Oct 23 10:47:00 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree;f=telephony/java/com/android/internal/telephony;h=b7a25777c9f3aa010e0a91580e49d597a9ba216d;hb=master Oct 23 10:48:02 swetland: [ro.build.fingerprint]: [tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC19/109652:user/ota-rel-keys,release-keys] Oct 23 10:48:59 BBHoss: swetland said yesterday they don't use that. Oct 23 10:49:14 jazelle Oct 23 10:49:18 ok good Oct 23 10:49:45 i have a spare BB 8830 that will never be used again, i'd like to start some experiments on it Oct 23 10:49:57 i have no idea how the bootloader or firmware on it works though Oct 23 10:50:02 might be signed by BB Oct 23 10:50:30 so android reads the network provider name from the sim?.... so id need to change that value on my sim using smartcard/jcop or something? Oct 23 10:50:33 another way might to build .cod from android source?? Oct 23 10:51:38 tmzt: we don't support cod out of the box. we've run on trout, halibut, goldfish, and sardine though Oct 23 10:52:08 would be a huge project, replacing all the jni stuff, writing a graphics provider(or whatever) Oct 23 10:52:55 oh, fish. I think this is most similar to what rim did though, except they went from JVM to executable I think Oct 23 10:56:41 wow, the n95 page actually updated Oct 23 10:58:24 this right ? public void supplyNetworkDepersonalization (String pin, Message onComplete) Oct 23 11:35:31 hi, do any of the developers use fedora for development? Oct 23 11:35:38 or is it strictly unbuntu? Oct 23 11:38:42 can someone show me where in the android source that it asks for "sim network unlock pin" ? Oct 23 11:49:29 mohbana: i use fedora Oct 23 11:49:40 haven't tried to build android yet Oct 23 11:52:59 and what editor do you guys use? Oct 23 11:58:38 I use vi Oct 23 11:58:58 and it starts... Oct 23 11:59:36 hello, androids and human. How do I get rootfs for one partition with right permissions, after I built android? Oct 23 12:10:00 Hi all. Oct 23 12:11:20 Good morning VVerner Oct 23 12:12:05 Goodafternoon (from my timezone) Dougie187 Oct 23 12:16:41 mohbana: i use it... and it sucks.... :( Oct 23 12:17:01 planning to switch ubuntu soon Oct 23 12:17:45 rupeshmg: There's going to be a new version released this month Oct 23 12:18:23 it would help if the checkout showed the percentage remaining Oct 23 12:18:46 yup.. might to dist-upgrade once it is stabilised Oct 23 12:19:08 mohbana: i think it does Oct 23 12:19:23 rupeshmg: huh? I thought you were going to switch to ubuntu? Oct 23 12:19:52 Wander_w : yup u heard rite Oct 23 12:20:15 will go for currently available ubuntu version Oct 23 12:20:36 and will later do dist upgrade after a month Oct 23 12:20:54 ah... that's possible as well Oct 23 12:21:46 rupeshmg: what do you use? Oct 23 12:21:48 now. Oct 23 12:22:05 fedora 7.... way old...... Oct 23 12:22:17 lol yeah... Oct 23 12:22:23 that is pretty old. Oct 23 12:22:24 need some time to reformat system Oct 23 12:30:05 only 7 days for a new ubuntu though. Oct 23 12:30:45 i guess OOo 3.0 didn't make it into the release. Oct 23 12:30:46 :( Oct 23 12:37:02 i ran repo init in my home dir instead of in mydroid. how do i reset it? Oct 23 12:38:47 mohbana: rm -fr bionic bootloader build dalvik development external frameworks hardware kernel Makefile out packages prebuilt recovery system Oct 23 12:49:40 is setting ANDROID_JAVA_HOME or/and JAVA_HOME required for unbuntu 8.04? Oct 23 12:52:09 I didn't Oct 23 12:52:32 but then again... I am a java developer Oct 23 12:52:33 I set it, but only because it was mentioned in the docs. Not sure if it makes a difference. Oct 23 12:53:35 mohbana: no need if java/javac is in path Oct 23 12:53:54 mohbana, you'll need sun jdk not ibm Oct 23 12:54:15 i also needed a "sudo apt-get install ncurses-dev" Oct 23 12:54:40 * dims 's build is still chugging along Oct 23 12:54:47 <`vip> aby idea if there is plans for an Internet Sharing app for android any time soon ? Oct 23 12:54:54 <`vip> er any Oct 23 12:57:29 what do you mean Oct 23 12:57:39 adb seems to provide wireless tethering Oct 23 12:59:28 <`vip> hrm the employees on the Tmobile forum this morning said it's not possible Oct 23 13:01:32 well, I haven't tried it yet. Oct 23 13:19:54 Does anyone know: if you're .apk has a different name, but contains the same package/signature, will it replace the old version of your application? Oct 23 13:19:59 your* Oct 23 13:21:01 hello boys and girls, who did already a build, using the android build system (i call it ABS) Oct 23 13:21:04 ? Oct 23 13:26:09 does anyone know how to put an image in a Toast message? Oct 23 13:33:20 any one here using the Android Open Sourced builds on a Mac? Oct 23 13:33:37 I can't get wireless to start- wondering how you are supposed to access the network with this build. Oct 23 13:34:02 massiveRobot: I dont use it on mac, but I use :-) Oct 23 13:34:22 massiveRobot: did you build, using their build system Oct 23 13:34:25 massiveRobot: ? Oct 23 13:34:30 hi yeah Oct 23 13:34:50 massiveRobot: for which device? Oct 23 13:34:55 I pulled the new sources and built it here, according to their directions. Oct 23 13:34:56 I Oct 23 13:35:16 I can start the emulator, but it won't connect to the network here, so it's not much use. Oct 23 13:35:31 Can you pick different devices? Oct 23 13:36:00 I chose the generic product for the '-system' Oct 23 13:36:47 massiveRobot: ok, I thought you use the rootfs for a real device Oct 23 13:37:14 massiveRobot: afaik, there's only one target atm: generic Oct 23 13:38:51 Yeah, the SDK emulator can access the network, I'm wondering what you have to do for this new build. Oct 23 13:42:28 wow. so this whole time they just needed my account password for verizon Oct 23 13:42:32 useless Oct 23 13:43:43 Does anyone know where the ADT source code is? The git repository is only for the kernel code...I think? Oct 23 13:44:21 rcjsuen: you mean the mighty android repo? Oct 23 13:44:21 git is not only for the kernel Oct 23 13:44:27 it built all the apps for me Oct 23 13:44:37 git at source.android.com builds everything available Oct 23 13:44:38 starting the emulator, I see the apps just like on a G1. Oct 23 13:44:48 http://source.android.com/download Oct 23 13:45:12 * waldo_ is back (gone 04:53:21) Oct 23 13:45:38 Well, I do see it in project layout anyway http://source.android.com/projects Oct 23 13:45:38 massiveRobot: I use it on real device and figure out, creating rootfs, with no initrd Oct 23 13:46:49 rcjsuen: did you download the repo already, using their repo script? Oct 23 13:47:07 szsoftware: No, I didn't, I was going to surf around through the web interface first. Oct 23 13:47:25 rcjsuen: ok Oct 23 13:47:55 although since i'm not familiar with DVCSes, this web interface seems quite difficult to tame for me Oct 23 13:48:14 rcjsuen: my build took a whole night long, and the java-compiler took the system bloody down ^^ Oct 23 13:48:23 rcjsuen: but now it's built :-) Oct 23 13:48:51 rcjsuen: DVCSesß Oct 23 13:48:56 rcjsuen: ? Oct 23 13:50:06 how the hell do I delete an account in Email Oct 23 13:50:20 massiveRobot, what do you do after you run "make"? (to start the emulator) Oct 23 13:50:27 ah hah Oct 23 13:50:59 dims: ah yeah, that was a struggle..... Oct 23 13:51:05 dims: --> $ out/host/darwin-x86/bin/emulator -system out/target/product/generic -kernel prebuilt/android-arm/kernel/kernel-qemu Oct 23 13:51:21 ah cool! thanks. let me try that Oct 23 13:51:25 szsoftware: Decentralized Version Control System Oct 23 13:51:32 rcjsuen: ?? Oct 23 13:51:39 distributed Oct 23 13:51:46 massiveRobot: oh that information is useful for me too Oct 23 13:52:16 yeah, that took about 20min of hunting for a kernal..... Oct 23 13:52:22 rcjsuen: git is a distributed version control system Oct 23 13:52:33 i don't think it builds one on the mac, at least, I can't find it. Oct 23 13:52:58 michaelnovakjr: right, decentralized/distributed, I've used them interchangeably myself anyway :o Oct 23 13:53:14 massiveRobot, thanks! works! Oct 23 13:54:26 rcjsuen: the best way to understand git is that every copy is its own repository Oct 23 13:54:43 you commit locally and push to a remote repo Oct 23 13:55:05 its a great system Oct 23 13:55:25 michaelnovakjr: I've never used one but I have heard good things about git/mercurial/bzr, yeah Oct 23 13:55:38 i prefer it Oct 23 13:56:23 in any case, that's not what's on my plate right now, I just want to find the ADT tree through the web interface ;) Oct 23 13:57:01 anyone know what the log names are? Oct 23 13:57:41 Trying to view logs, and the adb command logcat wants a 'filter-spec' - is that asking for the name of a logfile on the emulator? Oct 23 13:57:52 rcjsuen: you can also just download it Oct 23 13:58:08 michaelnovakjr: you mean as a tarball? yeah but i don't wanna do that :) Oct 23 13:58:59 They've had the ADT tarball for a while but I've always wanted to just surf around the source code online and then get it from the repository if I so desired. And now it's finally in a repository according to you folks so I want to find it. Oct 23 13:59:17 ah nevermind Oct 23 13:59:33 you can start shell using ADB from the SDK. Oct 23 14:14:16 <`vip> question, what's the difference between the Total Internet add-on I have with my Wing ... and the data package I have to get for the G1 ? Oct 23 14:14:20 anyone having any success debugging a shared library c++ code on using gbd? Oct 23 14:15:08 I am using remote debugging using localhost:1234 and it stops in c++ code after the shared library has been loaded but if I set the breakpoints, none of them is getting hit Oct 23 14:17:44 igorv: make sure the lib is compiled with debug symbols. Oct 23 14:18:13 `vip: did you look up the G1 data package? Oct 23 14:18:43 <`vip> not yet, just got off the phone Oct 23 14:18:50 Why does android require hint tracks for progressive downloaded movie streams? Oct 23 14:19:04 -g I think. Oct 23 14:21:18 dmoffett: yes, I tried, -g and also -ggdb, the execution stops in the lib code when I do gdb but then none of the breakpoints are getting hit. Also, step or next have the same effect as just hitting continue Oct 23 14:21:35 `vip: the total internet add-on only add's data, where as the g1 data package is data+messaging. Oct 23 14:22:37 <`vip> ok Dougie187 ... so why would I have to cancel what I have ... I already have unlim messaging and Total Internet Oct 23 14:22:48 <`vip> and the tech said it's the same price ... so why have a special plan ? Oct 23 14:22:54 because you have to use the g1 data package to use the g1. Oct 23 14:23:08 ..because you need to call 611 and ask them Oct 23 14:23:22 im converting an app from M3 to 1.0, It has UIThreadUtilities.runOnUiThread() calls everywhere Oct 23 14:23:34 gambler: oh shit Oct 23 14:23:38 m3 to 1.0?? Oct 23 14:23:42 just start over :) Oct 23 14:23:45 `vip: we aren't tmobile representatives. i don't think there are any in here either. so if you want a clear answer you should probably just call the, Oct 23 14:23:47 them* Oct 23 14:23:57 hehe Oct 23 14:24:10 `vip: Dial 611 and press 3 3 2 Oct 23 14:24:11 Dougie187: my phone works now! it kicks ass! Oct 23 14:24:13 gambler: the overall strategy your looking for is using Handler and sendMessages Oct 23 14:24:23 yakischloba: oh yeah? you in love with it too? Oct 23 14:24:41 yakischloba: whats your favorite part? Oct 23 14:24:44 Dougie187: yeah its pretty awesome. of course I just got it running about 30 minutes ago so I'm thrilled Oct 23 14:25:02 oh I duno the whole thing is fairly sexy Oct 23 14:25:22 well thats good. i remember the discussions of how "un-sexy" it looked before it came out. Oct 23 14:25:44 eh. The hardware design could be better but I won't complain unless it breaks Oct 23 14:25:48 heh Oct 23 14:26:05 but you love the software? Oct 23 14:26:11 yeah its pretty rad Oct 23 14:26:20 thats good Oct 23 14:26:25 rad, huh? Oct 23 14:26:27 glad to hear you finally got it working too Oct 23 14:26:32 i haven't heard that in a while Oct 23 14:26:37 just settling in to spend the rest of my live entangled with google services. adding all my contacts to my gmail account etc Oct 23 14:26:38 michaelnovakjr: people on the west coast say that a lot more then you would think Oct 23 14:26:39 i love the 5 hour battery life and the frequent crashes and hangs, its been awesome so far. not to mention the refusal to connect or stay connected to any secured wireless networks. Oct 23 14:26:50 Hmm. I'm making an app with a game board and I'm making a custom view. The only requirement is that the view is square, and takes up as much space as possible. Is it possible to write something like this? Oct 23 14:26:55 no wonder everyone said its half-useless without 3g - its on edge the whole time Oct 23 14:26:56 Disconnect: isn't there an update today? Oct 23 14:27:08 Dougie187, yeah it was stupid. the number port was just waiting on my verizon account password, which they neglected to ask me for at the tmobile store and didn't contact me about needing afterwards Oct 23 14:27:11 Dougie187: there's a staggered rollout starting today Oct 23 14:27:17 Dougie187, apparently you have to call them to take care of it Oct 23 14:27:25 although if any tmob types want to push me to the first wave i'd love to give it a try, see if it gets better Oct 23 14:27:28 Disconnect: well hope you get on it first and it fixes all your issues. Oct 23 14:27:35 what? I thought that the ota update was for everyone Oct 23 14:27:42 vol: but not all at once Oct 23 14:27:56 yakischloba: that sucks. at least you got it fixed though. Oct 23 14:27:58 over the next week or so Oct 23 14:28:04 vol: it is for everyone. just staggered. Oct 23 14:28:12 Dougie187, yeah. Now I wish I could have two gmail accounts under the 'gmail' application Oct 23 14:28:23 yakischloba: maybe the update will add that? Oct 23 14:28:27 ah. But if your request the OTA update, you'll be one of the first. Oct 23 14:28:30 who knows ;) Oct 23 14:28:41 yakischloba: but you could always specify the account in your gmail account. Oct 23 14:28:45 and have gmail pull the emails for you. Oct 23 14:29:04 vol: who knows? Oct 23 14:29:12 I've got 3G service here and teh device is quite nice Oct 23 14:29:25 im excited for the sprint release. Oct 23 14:29:28 yeah. I think I'll have to use the 'email' app anyway though, so I'll probably just add it there (i have my person address, and two work emails :/ ) Oct 23 14:29:34 even if its a different phone. Oct 23 14:29:48 Dougie187, is there news about the sprint release? Oct 23 14:29:52 yakischloba: thats too bad. Oct 23 14:29:58 tethridge: no.. but its supposed to be out by the end of the year. Oct 23 14:30:09 tethridge: im just waiting.... Oct 23 14:30:12 :-( I was hoping for some news Oct 23 14:30:17 me too Oct 23 14:30:23 Dougie187: that is if sprint is still around... Oct 23 14:30:26 slip in some big news under the radar of the g1 release. Oct 23 14:30:44 michaelnovakjr: im sure they will be. They just placed 1st in the country for customer service response times. Oct 23 14:30:48 Sweet. My wide and I have our google calendars setup up in different domains, but to update eachothers calendar when we make changes on our own Oct 23 14:30:48 the 3g coverage in my area is kind of sporadic, but I knew that going in Oct 23 14:30:53 and it's nice if you have wifi around you Oct 23 14:30:54 michaelnovakjr, supposedly they have the best customer support now. They are trying to make improvements it seems Oct 23 14:30:54 *wife Oct 23 14:30:59 Dougie187: is that because they have less customers? Oct 23 14:31:02 :) Oct 23 14:31:11 michaelnovakjr: possibly. but thats always a good place to start getting more customers. Oct 23 14:31:19 true Oct 23 14:31:20 tmo customer service has always been great for me Oct 23 14:31:28 michaelnovakjr: regardless of their customer support (which i have had horrible experiences with) i like their mobile service. Oct 23 14:31:41 hello guys, who did make a rootfs from the android build (built with repo) ? Oct 23 14:31:43 i just didn't like the cell service, i couldn't get a signal in most places Oct 23 14:31:49 att i get signal every where Oct 23 14:31:53 i can't find a place where i don't get a signal Oct 23 14:32:02 att does win on being able to get a signal everywhere Oct 23 14:32:04 att placed last in customer service, just so you know. Oct 23 14:32:16 but the speeds available on att vary widely Oct 23 14:32:21 they oversell their network quite heavily Oct 23 14:32:25 Dougie187: good thing this iPhone kicks ass and i don't need customer service...... Oct 23 14:32:28 heh Oct 23 14:32:31 because then it would suck :) Oct 23 14:32:42 at least in my area (Dallas/Fort Worth) Oct 23 14:32:44 at my old school, the ATT towers would be down for weeks on end constantly Oct 23 14:32:59 i had friends on att, and they couldn't use their phones at all for whole weeks. Oct 23 14:33:01 it was terrible Oct 23 14:33:04 i get excellent 3G coverage in NY Oct 23 14:33:14 im sure, because that is a huge area Oct 23 14:33:16 Sprint lost me as a customer forever due to their blatant persistent billing errors on multiple accounts and complete lack of interest in working to fix them even after admitting they were significant errors Oct 23 14:33:20 streaming last.fm is awesome Oct 23 14:33:38 languish: yeah, they screwed me up bad 8 years ago Oct 23 14:33:38 languish: i found emailing their customer support gets far better responses than calling the people. Oct 23 14:33:42 with billing issues Oct 23 14:33:59 languish: when you call, they are idiots and can't help you at all. but if you email they fix your problem right away Oct 23 14:34:19 Death_Syn: i've found Tmobiles 3G coverage here in DFW to be exceptional. Oct 23 14:34:35 Anyone having trouble getting apps to download? Oct 23 14:34:40 Death_Syn: also check the topic re: AndroidDevCamp here in Dallas ;-) Oct 23 14:34:42 I haven't had one app install successfully yet Oct 23 14:35:08 unix_lappy: I'm slightly on the edge here at my office, I get 2 bars on a 3G tower and there's an edge tower 2 miles away that's giving me 4 bars Oct 23 14:35:16 i get 3g depending on how I orient my phone Oct 23 14:35:17 Death_Syn, yeah.. I had to go to corporate through my business connections to get the issues resloved *each time* which was turning in to every 3 to 4 months, with sudden discrepancies of over $1000, and the accounts getting suspended when they had CREDIT overpayment from previous corrections Oct 23 14:35:20 at home I get 3g all the time, though Oct 23 14:36:15 just e-mailing or phoning results in a recognition of the problem, not a correction of it Oct 23 14:36:19 Death_Syn: what speeds are you usually getting? Oct 23 14:37:30 http://www.dslreports.com/stest Oct 23 14:37:41 (non flash) Oct 23 14:37:47 So.. android runs on dalvik. The entire phone isn't open. I'm buying a G1 on friday if I can. But... android's telephony provider seems to puil in .. a telephony provider? What I;m getting at is.. this seems a lot like what Apple did. "It's open! (but only a little bit of it)" Oct 23 14:37:56 unix_lappy: let's find out! Oct 23 14:38:04 Do I really get access to the lower levels of the device? Can I? Oct 23 14:38:19 I mean without jumping through serious reverse engineering hoops Oct 23 14:38:27 weilawei: i take it you haven't been around the android community for a while? Oct 23 14:38:48 Dougie187: nope. Just started looking and my initial impression from scanning the source was that something was missing Oct 23 14:39:19 eh, i think the only thing missing from the source are some google branded apps and some proprietary hardware drivers Oct 23 14:39:23 afaik Oct 23 14:39:38 and htc's bootloader? Oct 23 14:39:40 would it be possible to write new hardware drivers? Oct 23 14:39:49 unix_lappy: 168kbit/sec on edge, working to get on the 3g real quick to test that one Oct 23 14:39:49 weilawei: why not? Oct 23 14:39:50 languish: bootloader should be up there.. Oct 23 14:40:20 hmm Oct 23 14:41:13 Death_Syn: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1116168/ Oct 23 14:42:10 Dougie187: is there an FS browser available yet? I heard (in a review of the G1) that there was no way to access files directly. Oct 23 14:42:16 hmm Oct 23 14:42:33 i got 723k/s with 2 bars of 3G Oct 23 14:43:05 weilawei: i don't think so. Oct 23 14:43:12 but i'm not sure. Oct 23 14:43:26 i have one i can update weilawei Oct 23 14:43:40 i wrote it on an earlier sdk Oct 23 14:43:50 definitely broken :) Oct 23 14:44:07 does rotation of phone to horizontal position count as landscape mode or is it when the keyboard is visible ? Oct 23 14:44:22 neerhaj: i think its just when the keyboard is open Oct 23 14:44:34 neerhaj: but someone with a g1 might be able to clarify Oct 23 14:44:43 err.. confirm Oct 23 14:44:53 so there is no file manager for the phone then? Oct 23 14:44:54 anyways. Oct 23 14:44:55 class time! Oct 23 14:44:58 see ya Oct 23 14:45:04 later Oct 23 14:45:13 michaelnovakjr: good to know.. i may hit you up to help with that when I buy one and settle down to develop for it Oct 23 14:45:22 aka tomorrow if they aren't sold out Oct 23 14:45:40 sure weilawei, it'll be straight forward to update the existing code Oct 23 14:45:46 i hope :) Oct 23 14:48:07 i saw Android and my first thought was.. maybe we can finally have a phone that can be reasonably tailored to match what a person wants. although im slightly more skeptical about that now but I want to see about the nitty gritty of device drivers and interacting with the carriers network. i hope it isnt something like calls from signed code using the carriers key to authenticate >_< Oct 23 14:48:26 open firmware is what i'd like to see Oct 23 14:50:35 weilawei: good luck with that Oct 23 14:51:01 weilawei: it's certainly unlikely to happen in the US because of FCC restrictions Oct 23 14:52:41 weilawei: don't hold your breath on the device drivers :) Oct 23 14:52:47 the thing is.. Oct 23 14:52:58 don't expect it to happen anytime soon Oct 23 14:53:04 if a carrier's security relies on validating the source of the input, not the content of the input Oct 23 14:53:07 it's got a huge flaw Oct 23 14:53:12 get an openmoko and enjoy using the CLI to dial a number Oct 23 14:53:14 (maybe) Oct 23 14:53:23 weilawei: they obviously aren't going to release that if its the case Oct 23 14:53:30 thats a no brainer Oct 23 14:56:41 weilawei: one of the problems is that the companies that get FCC approval are responsible for ensuring that their devices remain compliant with FCC specs, even given people who want to do things like crank the radio up if they have a bad signal Oct 23 14:57:39 weilawei: and if a bunch of handsets get misused because random folks don't read the FCC specs, that's the company's fault (At least in part) Oct 23 14:58:21 The firmware that does all the telephony stuff runs on a separate core than android. Oct 23 14:58:36 mikez5: that's not what we're talking about Oct 23 14:59:00 >: Oct 23 14:59:22 mikez5: thanks, good to know Oct 23 14:59:52 hey all any news on the update.. anyone get it yet? Oct 23 15:03:16 gdsx: http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2007/fcc-sdr-whitepaper.html Oct 23 15:03:20 check it out Oct 23 15:03:29 it basically says Oct 23 15:03:37 they have to provide security around their software defined radio Oct 23 15:03:46 but an independent party, on his own time, can do whatever he wants Oct 23 15:03:47 of course Oct 23 15:03:59 he still has to stay legally compliant Oct 23 15:03:59 no firmware update yet for me. but a number of problems were fixed lastnight Oct 23 15:04:17 but it does leave open the possibility of changing your cellphone to be say.. a ham radio. (if its physically possible) Oct 23 15:04:20 what problems lang? Oct 23 15:04:28 you just cant market it without re-certification Oct 23 15:05:55 waldo_, pac-man download was being blocked as nit having been paid for (yes it was supposed to be free, and is, but that was the error), 3g signal was fluctuating wildly for the past 2 days, it's become far more stable now. Oct 23 15:06:00 *not Oct 23 15:06:08 weilawei: cool Oct 23 15:06:09 languish-- I d/l'd pacman no problem last night Oct 23 15:06:13 it's great incidentally Oct 23 15:06:30 waldo_, I know, not everyone could. That's been rectified. And yes, it's awesome Oct 23 15:06:47 weilawei: though I still wonder how likely it is that random folks would crank up their radios without knowing the tradeoffs or consequences Oct 23 15:06:50 i can't believe it was written in java Oct 23 15:06:50 My wife was able to d/l, but many I, and many others couldn't Oct 23 15:06:57 now we can :) Oct 23 15:07:01 gdsx: probably likely if it was easy enough. Oct 23 15:07:06 languish well that's an improvement Oct 23 15:07:17 but it really grates that I'm being offered a toy and can't tinker ;) Oct 23 15:07:23 waldo_, it's just nice to see problems are being addressed steadily Oct 23 15:07:25 one thing I haven't figured out yet-- how do you remove an APK? I can't find any delete under Settings/Applications or under Settings Oct 23 15:07:28 languish yup Oct 23 15:07:36 Is update pushed yet Oct 23 15:07:38 weilawei: "no user-servicable parts" Oct 23 15:07:49 xD i'm not a user. im a developer >_> Oct 23 15:08:04 or rather, i wear two hats ;) Oct 23 15:08:09 weilawei: yeah Oct 23 15:08:09 morning Oct 23 15:08:14 weilawei: are you a ham? Oct 23 15:08:22 SanMehat: buenas Oct 23 15:08:26 weilawei could you develop a nice ssh port that works with sshkeys? ;) Oct 23 15:08:30 fadden0++ Oct 23 15:08:30 gdsx: hola man Oct 23 15:08:42 gdsx: im not a ham, but my best friend is crazy into it. so im often dragged into that subject area Oct 23 15:08:55 i prefer neural nets and statistics >_> Oct 23 15:09:05 weilawei: aah, cool Oct 23 15:09:23 waldo_: could and will are two different things. are you telling me theres no SSH on the phone? Oct 23 15:09:26 the G1 Oct 23 15:09:46 there's connectbot but it only supports passwords.. Oct 23 15:09:48 I'm looking forward to a method to switch to different android configurations, like switching primary users on the device. Oct 23 15:09:55 http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/downloads/list Oct 23 15:09:56 waldo_: Settings/Applications/Manage Applications Oct 23 15:10:00 vol thanks Oct 23 15:10:04 you kind of have to know which one you want :P Oct 23 15:10:05 vol I tried that Oct 23 15:10:12 otherwise, adb shell and rm it? :\ Oct 23 15:10:40 waldo_: have you gotten ctrl keys working in connectbot Oct 23 15:10:53 hooray, connectbot works? Oct 23 15:10:57 :> Oct 23 15:11:01 * vol downloads furious Oct 23 15:11:04 ly Oct 23 15:11:40 anyone doing dev work on connectbot lemme know Oct 23 15:11:52 ill be spending most of today fixing bugs in it Oct 23 15:12:18 compbrain I haven't tried connectbot on the actual g1 only teh emulator... I have the g1 here just havent' installed it. incidentally a 1.0 version came out 24 hours ago. Oct 23 15:12:36 I'm going to see if I can get it working on the actual device Oct 23 15:12:46 though I dunno if anything will even work with GPRS speeds (office is quite the dead zone) Oct 23 15:12:50 there are still some buffer issues Oct 23 15:13:07 .9 worked fine on the emulator.. dunno what's new in this 1.0 Oct 23 15:13:08 vol: you have an actual G1 already? Oct 23 15:13:14 I got mine on monday Oct 23 15:13:15 <- has actual g1 Oct 23 15:13:17 nice :) Oct 23 15:13:23 how fast did they ship? Oct 23 15:13:27 im ordering mine tomorrow Oct 23 15:13:34 I had preordered but there was one left at the t-mobile store ;) Oct 23 15:13:38 try the stores Oct 23 15:13:38 not sure, I preordered Oct 23 15:13:39 aha Oct 23 15:13:47 i dont have a tmobile store locally Oct 23 15:13:52 I canceled my preorder and walked out with it... Oct 23 15:13:56 even though they have good coverage Oct 23 15:14:00 also, is there a way to see a numeric indicator of battery life? Oct 23 15:14:01 otherwise I would have been waiting till nov 10 Oct 23 15:14:14 vol I think there is something under settings/about this phone Oct 23 15:14:21 something like that where it tells you numerically the charge Oct 23 15:14:30 in joules! Oct 23 15:14:31 but there's lots of chatter about shitty battery Oct 23 15:14:39 in calories, amazingly enough Oct 23 15:14:42 ;) Oct 23 15:14:46 ogod xD Oct 23 15:14:55 hows the battery though? Oct 23 15:15:04 well... I haven't had it long enough literally to know Oct 23 15:15:09 im pretty committed but if theres a huge flaw i dont know about >_> Oct 23 15:15:10 but there's a thread here kinda ripping i.. Oct 23 15:15:27 Would love a longer battery life Oct 23 15:15:39 using conectbot, trying to authenticate... Oct 23 15:15:44 (should take an hour w/ gprs) Oct 23 15:15:46 http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=87&thread.id=107 Oct 23 15:15:51 that's the battery discussion Oct 23 15:16:02 vol password only right? Oct 23 15:16:09 ? Oct 23 15:16:14 no, sorry Oct 23 15:16:16 I meant the handshake Oct 23 15:16:43 it just told me that the key is unknow, accepting for now.... and then the next line is "trying to authenticate" Oct 23 15:17:32 I can't convince my phone to download an app, no matter what network I'm on. Anyone else have this issue? Oct 23 15:17:33 vol hmm i guess I can go try it on my end.... but all my ssh servers use sshkey.. hmm Oct 23 15:17:48 is there a network I should try? Oct 23 15:17:52 covalentbond... did you turn on "accept unknown APKs" or whaever Oct 23 15:18:01 covalentbond: from the market or from the webwebs Oct 23 15:18:09 from Market Oct 23 15:18:13 the app Oct 23 15:18:17 hmm. Oct 23 15:18:31 There's a known issue of downloads stalling when switching networks (3g to evdo) if I recall Oct 23 15:18:35 i get the message that the app is queued to download and to check notifications, but then they never install Oct 23 15:18:45 this happens on wifi or 3g Oct 23 15:18:51 consistently Oct 23 15:19:01 call t-momo Oct 23 15:19:07 i haven't been able to download a single app yet no matter what config i use Oct 23 15:19:27 are they trained enough to be able to debug this kind of thing? Oct 23 15:19:31 covalentbond: do you see folks in gtalk? Oct 23 15:19:34 no, but they can probably send you to someone who is Oct 23 15:20:22 gsdx: doesn't look like i can. Oct 23 15:20:45 vol: there might be a buffer issue Oct 23 15:20:51 when you see "trying to authenticate" Oct 23 15:20:54 ok Oct 23 15:20:56 try hitting enter a few times Oct 23 15:21:01 also, sshkeys arent written in yet Oct 23 15:21:06 but hopefully coming by monday Oct 23 15:21:17 covalentbond: if you go to Settings->Sync, has it synced recently? Oct 23 15:21:24 gsdx: i see my contacts list but everyone is offline Oct 23 15:21:35 ok, I'll try that Oct 23 15:21:55 covalentbond: ::nod:: Oct 23 15:22:08 gsdx: wow - now apps are downloading Oct 23 15:22:20 gsdx: selecting gchat did something Oct 23 15:22:40 covalentbond: cool Oct 23 15:22:50 umdkld3 are you the author? Oct 23 15:22:53 gsdx: lots of queued download icons just appeared in the status bar Oct 23 15:23:00 bizarre Oct 23 15:23:05 ok, that got me a password prompt, but now it does not accept my password. Oct 23 15:23:11 covalentbond: drag the bar down; are they making progress?' Oct 23 15:23:11 I am prettu sure I'm typing it right Oct 23 15:23:16 ( a local echo would be nice ) Oct 23 15:23:24 gsdx: yes Oct 23 15:23:36 gsdx: they weren't even there previously Oct 23 15:23:42 covalentbond: ::nod:: Oct 23 15:24:18 covalentbond: basically, there is some notification stuff involved. So that probably got wedged in a way that opening gchat was able to unwedge it Oct 23 15:24:33 gsdx: funky, good to know Oct 23 15:24:34 Can I not have a signature in the Email app? Oct 23 15:24:42 umdk1d3: is there a jailed shell somewhere that you know works that I can test against? Oct 23 15:24:56 vol: lemme create one somewhere on a vps Oct 23 15:25:13 ive tested against my home debian box, but i know ppl have had issues with other openssh hosts Oct 23 15:25:20 still need to debug all of that Oct 23 15:25:25 * umdk1d3 sets aside most of today Oct 23 15:25:32 also need to get custom kbd shortcuts working Oct 23 15:25:35 umdk1d3: i'm so jealous of your copious free time :) Oct 23 15:25:41 for example, mapping the serch key to ctrl+a Oct 23 15:25:44 jasta: lol :) Oct 23 15:25:50 covalentbond: do you have the source tree compiled, or an SDK handy? Oct 23 15:26:02 gsdx: yes to both Oct 23 15:26:03 ...and sshkeys! Don't forget the keys! :) Oct 23 15:26:27 waldo_: i use sshkeys everywhere, so its high on my list too Oct 23 15:26:34 awesome Oct 23 15:27:09 umk1d3-- who are you guys-- involved with Android/Google directly? Oct 23 15:27:20 lol no im just a random dev Oct 23 15:27:30 covalentbond: cool, can you plug your handset in, then run `.../out/hopst//bin/adb logcat| tee foo.log`, then just ^C it when it stops and send me the logfile? Oct 23 15:27:41 well seriously-- ssh is so fundimental... it should be included w/the bare g1 imo ;) Oct 23 15:27:53 covalentbond: actually, you can try `...adb bugreport` also; I'm not sure if it'll work Oct 23 15:27:57 waldo_: tbh it is on mine i think Oct 23 15:32:14 Has someone written a ping utility or is there one included anywhere? Oct 23 15:32:51 yakischloba... interestingly I haven't seen anything. But if someone does ping maybe they should do a bunch of common network tools-- ping/traceroute/nc... nmap :) Oct 23 15:32:59 yeah Oct 23 15:33:20 waldo_: you forgot wireshark :o) Oct 23 15:33:30 oh yeah wiresharek too but that needs x11 Oct 23 15:33:42 so we'll need to rewrite x11 in java too Oct 23 15:34:29 * ttuttle punches HTC. Oct 23 15:34:34 aww why Oct 23 15:34:34 wireshark mobile would be worth at least a small part of one of my kidneys Oct 23 15:34:41 waldo_: just do it with the text frontend Oct 23 15:34:41 * languish agrees with ttuttle Oct 23 15:34:42 Their @#%^! stupid ExtUSB jack just broke my @$%^ headphones. Oct 23 15:34:47 lol Oct 23 15:34:47 :( Oct 23 15:34:52 ttuttle, wut? Oct 23 15:34:54 not lol mean, just .. that thing is such a terrible idea Oct 23 15:34:57 :( Oct 23 15:34:58 does wireshark have a text front end? Oct 23 15:35:01 WARNING: Do *not* put your G1 in your pocket with headphones unless you are wearing baggy pants. Oct 23 15:35:06 Disconnect: It breaks! Oct 23 15:35:10 haha Oct 23 15:35:19 :( Oct 23 15:35:20 ttuttle... i hope you meant the headphones break. Oct 23 15:35:20 Disconnect: It bent a couple of times, and now it just broke completely. Oct 23 15:35:21 ttuttle toit pants syndrome Oct 23 15:35:24 waldo_: yeah Oct 23 15:35:28 languish: lol Oct 23 15:35:34 languish: these aren't even particularly tight pants. Oct 23 15:35:48 the issue with wireshark is that it requires lowlevel net stack access, which isnt possible without adding a native lib Oct 23 15:36:01 yeah, the headphone jack being on the bottom of the device is just poor design Oct 23 15:36:11 languish: That, and it not being a headphone jack. Oct 23 15:36:13 yes Oct 23 15:36:18 that most certainly Oct 23 15:36:20 michaelnovakjr: are you around? Oct 23 15:36:31 given that the thing can't even stay on a (solid, stable, strong) wireless network for more than 90 seconds, i'm not sure wireshark will be that useful. Oct 23 15:36:34 umdk1d3 yeah you're right. Oct 23 15:36:35 rob-cs, I think he's aoval Oct 23 15:36:54 Disconnect: that's not really true Oct 23 15:36:54 perhals aellipsoid Oct 23 15:36:59 *perhaps Oct 23 15:37:15 Disconnect: it does take wireless down 2 minutes after the screen turns off, though (for power-saving) Oct 23 15:37:38 gdsx: i literally just told it "connect to the wep network @ work" and it did. then i opened the browser and mywoot.net and .. back on edge. this is, i'll point out, sitting no more than 8" from the laptop i'm currently on that same network with. Oct 23 15:38:24 ok so thats part of my problem - it'd be really nice if it hung on in low-power mode for more than 2 minutes. wifi has a low-power mode for just such a reason. 1sec or more beacons is not a big deal. Oct 23 15:38:31 *sigh* I really should connect my G1 to my wifi, but I'm too lazy to dig up the wpa2 key I used Oct 23 15:38:44 I don't know how reliable the wireless bars are, but I was like 2 feet from the router and it was saying "weak"... but I did have a signal so I'm not really complaining Oct 23 15:38:57 rob-cs: yep Oct 23 15:39:19 waldo_: hmm... that doesn't sound right Oct 23 15:39:39 gdsx... Well this was when I first got it... maybe I was reading it wrong or something... Oct 23 15:39:43 rob-cs: what's up? Oct 23 15:40:00 gdsx I haven't had it long enough to really be making any kind of definative evaluation on anything... Oct 23 15:40:07 ditto. at home i have a WAP downstairs that covers 3/4 of the house. when i'm in the room with it, it'll connect. when i go into the kitchen (1 wall away, everything else gives at least 38mbps) it just goes ...oops, edge again. Oct 23 15:40:17 thats no more than 15 feet and 1 wall Oct 23 15:40:31 waldo, I had a problem with a wifi router sitting on a high shelf, about 3.5' from me, with poor signal. It turned out.. the problem was the shelf was totally scattering the signal Oct 23 15:40:38 (not even a proper drywall-wall, its a lovely painted fake wood panelling wall left from the old owners :/ Oct 23 15:40:44 Disconnect: well, I've got to run Oct 23 15:40:51 lang metal shelf or wood? Oct 23 15:40:57 Disconnect: but walking around with `adb logcat` running should be informative Oct 23 15:41:02 note that i can hit that same AP with my e90 from the far side of the house (3 more walls, about anohter 50 feet or more, and at a slant through some long walls) Oct 23 15:41:13 ...nothing but net? Oct 23 15:41:13 Disconnect: if you see things that still seem squirrely, let us know Oct 23 15:41:18 will do Oct 23 15:41:19 waldo_, it looked like composite board, but turned out to have a metal mesh in it Oct 23 15:41:24 ah... Oct 23 15:41:27 quick q, where's the bugtracker? got a bunch to put in from yesterday Oct 23 15:41:37 damn faraday cages Oct 23 15:41:41 srsly Oct 23 15:41:41 * Disconnect looks at the topic.. nope, no faq, no bugtracker links Oct 23 15:41:42 Disconnect: code.google.com/p/android ? Oct 23 15:41:46 b.android.com? Oct 23 15:41:47 issues Oct 23 15:42:01 /b/droid ? oh noez... Oct 23 15:42:21 Disconnect:http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list Oct 23 15:42:46 michaelnovakjr: thanks, that looks a lot more like a bugtracker than the resources/members page did... Oct 23 15:42:46 hey I am trying notepadv1 and it crashes in the emulator Oct 23 15:42:52 so I've been giving XMPP a lot of thought Oct 23 15:43:03 is there something done I am not doin Oct 23 15:44:01 if XMPP were working not only could you do phone to phone messaging & RPCs, but run many of the clients like IM and email off the phone and save a whole butt-ton of battery.... Oct 23 15:44:21 this is probably obvious but i'm slow. Oct 23 15:45:03 I'm talking 3rd party obviously... since google does this already.. would apply also well for calendar updates... Oct 23 15:45:31 waldo_: note that if you move from XML to a binary protocol, you save on bandwidth _and_ CPU Oct 23 15:46:03 well maybe a compressed xmpp then :) Oct 23 15:46:18 I did read some threads about how google was kind of tweaking it Oct 23 15:46:32 but yeah, it would be great to have this as a standard feature.. Oct 23 15:47:49 waldo_: well, there is a phone-to-phone messaging API that we dropped for 0.9 and 1.0, but folks are working on bringing it back Oct 23 15:48:01 waldo_: it just wasn't ready for launch, though Oct 23 15:48:06 anyway, I'm off Oct 23 15:48:26 gdsx k... Oct 23 15:50:55 umdk1d3: have an account I can test against? Oct 23 15:51:20 ohsry got distracted holdon Oct 23 15:51:52 thx :> Oct 23 15:52:26 actually, I'm about to head out to lunch Oct 23 15:52:36 umdk1d3: got more app for testing? :) Oct 23 15:52:37 I'd test it on the road, but I'd need ssh to get to my irc shell Oct 23 15:52:39 and, well.... Oct 23 15:52:44 Disconnect: lol not yet sigh lol Oct 23 15:52:48 going thru issue tracker now Oct 23 15:53:00 then will spend restof day coding on it ;) Oct 23 15:53:25 cool Oct 23 15:54:18 so, how are individual application updates handled? Oct 23 15:54:32 from an end user perspective Oct 23 15:54:51 languish: your app can launch an intent over into market, but its up to you to do version checks Oct 23 15:54:54 see also: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/ Oct 23 15:55:04 nod, thanks Oct 23 15:55:24 some apps I'd like to see automatic updates. It would make sense Oct 23 15:55:25 but from user POV, they arent notified or anything. Oct 23 15:55:39 in market it shows "update" when one is avail and looking at app details Oct 23 15:55:39 like the video player's addition of codecs Oct 23 15:55:51 but it doesnt check or alert you Oct 23 15:55:57 hrm Oct 23 15:56:14 I understand why.. if the users happy, why bother them Oct 23 15:56:22 if they're not, they'll look Oct 23 15:56:35 dfwnb Oct 23 15:58:19 hrm, need to get f00f and romainguy on the same sife of these splits as us Oct 23 15:58:24 *side Oct 23 16:05:17 so whats the best place to get help with the tutorials google groups? Oct 23 16:06:04 mlester, have you hit any of the forums like anddev ? Oct 23 16:06:57 mlester http://www.anddev.org/ Oct 23 16:07:15 so how is installing on the device Oct 23 16:07:31 do you have to have signed apk's? can you get them outside the market? Oct 23 16:08:04 ok no I haven't I'll try it out Oct 23 16:10:59 Am I right that an APK is stored zipped on the device, it's not unpacked into files? Oct 23 16:11:13 andyross: its unpacked somewhat Oct 23 16:11:19 i think the dex is moved somewhere central Oct 23 16:11:39 but other stuff remains zipped until used (res/raw in particular) Oct 23 16:11:40 OK, but, say, a shared library is left in the archive? Oct 23 16:12:18 * andyross is still trying to figure out what should be the canonical native code paradigm. Oct 23 16:12:24 andyross: the full contents of the APK remain, and can be accessed like a Java JAR through the "get resource" calls Oct 23 16:12:44 Right, but not mmaped and executed. :) Oct 23 16:12:48 andyross: whatever you come up with will probably be replaced with the official version once the official version is made official Oct 23 16:13:23 You would want to extract native .so files from the archive before attempting to execute code in them. Oct 23 16:13:53 Yeah, that's what I figured. Is there a standard path where output files go? The API doesn't allow a full path, just a name. I suppose I could just look for it myself... Oct 23 16:14:02 Which API? Oct 23 16:14:30 Context.fileOutputWhatever(), I think. Gotta check the docs... Oct 23 16:14:48 Yes: Context.openFileOutput() Oct 23 16:15:08 oh man... Oct 23 16:15:28 michaelnovakjr: You have to jailbreak the device first. Which involves going to a system setting and checking a box labeled "Allow installations of apps from outside the market", which the installer will point you to if you attempt to install an app from outside of the marketplace. Oct 23 16:15:43 Lenolium: It is not jailbreaking! Oct 23 16:15:47 haha Oct 23 16:15:50 Lenolium: There is no jail, and you are not breaking out of it! Oct 23 16:15:54 doesn't sound like jailbreaking :) Oct 23 16:16:01 Why did my Email account disappear? I didn't delete it Oct 23 16:16:07 ttuttle: its got jail, but yah, thats not breaking out Oct 23 16:16:09 It's almost as hard as getting custom ringtones on the device. Oct 23 16:16:23 lol that jail was pretty easy to break out of Oct 23 16:16:23 Heh, I was just about to say the same thing. If it's a checkbox in the UI, it's not much of a jail. :) A jailbreak would be something like a root shell or ability to reflash the main filesystem. Oct 23 16:16:36 I upgraded from 0.10 to 0.11, now everybody seems to be having troubles staying logged in, after a few clicks the system logs them out Oct 23 16:16:36 You have to go to a song, bring up the menu and select "Set as Ringtone" Oct 23 16:16:42 oops Oct 23 16:16:45 wrong channel Oct 23 16:17:00 my damn email account just disappeared Oct 23 16:17:02 wtf Oct 23 16:17:05 I was just thinking about the augmented reality games.. such as parallelkingdom. And, how something like a simplified HMD would work with them, perhaps connected via wifi/BT to stream visual overlay data to the HMD/video glasses. Oct 23 16:17:29 languish: Don't forget the barcode scanner, GPS, and wifi. Oct 23 16:17:31 Has anyone done any work with horizontal scrolling? Is there built-in functionality, and/or libraries that people have built? Oct 23 16:17:44 languish: I predicted over the summer that Android would become the best platform for alternative reality games. Oct 23 16:18:06 I'm going for something similar to the Android home screen. Oct 23 16:18:07 ttuttle, well the augmented reality games use gps and the video camera Oct 23 16:18:29 along with google mapping, such as parallel kingdom is doing Oct 23 16:18:33 yawn Oct 23 16:18:54 jasta: ... Oct 23 16:19:11 but the addition of a lightweight set of glasses to overlay the visuals... Oct 23 16:19:18 And fadden0: while I'm sure the official SDK will be better, it won't actually work on (as of right now) 100% of shipping devices without a reflash. Once stuff is in the field in the wireless world, it's kinda too late to add features; native code on G1's needing some level of hackery seems inevitable to me. Oct 23 16:19:31 hour and three minutes to compile ... will android build happily with distcc? Oct 23 16:19:36 ttuttle: yes? Oct 23 16:20:23 Has anyone else had an account disappear from Email? Oct 23 16:22:17 Well, that's annoying. I hope it doesn't happen again ;( Oct 23 16:23:24 yakischloba, check your build number Oct 23 16:23:28 maybe your phone updated Oct 23 16:23:34 jasta: oh, you were just yawning. Oct 23 16:23:37 look for the letters RC Oct 23 16:23:40 Ah. Would that clear everything out?.. Oct 23 16:23:50 if it says 23 next to it, maybe that was it Oct 23 16:23:57 * ttuttle has 28 ;-) Oct 23 16:23:59 Are OTA updates evident to the user? I didn't notice anything Oct 23 16:24:01 if it's a lower number (19?) then likely not Oct 23 16:24:04 ttuttle hush you Oct 23 16:24:19 Where do I check the build number Oct 23 16:24:20 yakischloba, dunno.. go look, and maybe we'll find out Oct 23 16:24:31 ttuttle provide the path please? Oct 23 16:24:58 (you can unhush now) Oct 23 16:25:01 :D Oct 23 16:25:14 1.0 TC4-RC19 109652 Oct 23 16:25:26 ok so it wasn't the update Oct 23 16:25:34 * jasta reads about how to contribute to the android tree Oct 23 16:25:38 languish: Path to what? Oct 23 16:25:45 ttuttle, n/m he found it Oct 23 16:26:37 well that blows. hopefully i get the OTA update and it fixes ;) Oct 23 16:26:38 yakischloba: you will get a prompt that will quite obviously be asking to update Oct 23 16:26:42 Oh. ok Oct 23 16:26:58 yakischloba: patience Oct 23 16:26:58 if you ignore it long enough (e.g. if it happens overnight) then it will eventually just update and reboot anyway Oct 23 16:27:00 How do you find the version number? Oct 23 16:27:08 yakischloba: it doesn't prompt you until it's done downloading anyway Oct 23 16:27:13 morrildl: have you heard anything about that issue? (Account being removed from Email) Oct 23 16:27:32 Lenolium: Home>Menu>Settings>About phone>Build number Oct 23 16:27:53 yakischloba: hmm, no Oct 23 16:28:03 yakischloba: what do you mean "disappear"? Oct 23 16:28:16 morrildl: Cool, thanks. Oct 23 16:28:23 I setup my account, played around with it for a few minutes. Then I closed the phone for a while, and when I opened it back up and opened the Email app, I was back at the setup screen Oct 23 16:28:39 yakischloba: no Oct 23 16:28:42 yakischloba: that's a new one Oct 23 16:29:12 Can we have a way to vote off dumbass reviews in the Market? Oct 23 16:29:34 yakischloba: if it happens again let me know, that's kind of disturbing Oct 23 16:29:34 Is there a prebuilt arm-eabi bionic anywhere? I'm trying to get the toolchain up, but there's no distributed crt0.o that I can find. Oct 23 16:29:35 a "confidence" vote would be cool Oct 23 16:29:46 Like the "I am an idiot I can't use this app" sort of reviews. Oct 23 16:29:52 ttuttle: No, think of 5 stars as an asymptotic goal :) Oct 23 16:29:54 morrildl: indeed. My phone also just took about 7 presses of the button to 'wake up'. that is also disturbing Oct 23 16:30:09 yakischloba: also abnormal. Which button? Oct 23 16:30:16 Hmm, Market says Video Player is not correctly signed. Oct 23 16:30:17 mine does that occassionally too Oct 23 16:30:21 it doesnt seem to wake up right away always Oct 23 16:30:26 i just hit the menu button until it comes up Oct 23 16:30:46 How/where do we submit market reviews anyway? Oct 23 16:30:51 languish: In the Market. Oct 23 16:30:53 looks like ive got sip-communicator ported to 1.0 ... Oct 23 16:30:58 gambler: Link! Oct 23 16:30:59 morrildl, red button Oct 23 16:31:44 ttuttle, its massive Oct 23 16:31:49 gambler: :( Oct 23 16:31:56 build system is all ^&*UH@# Oct 23 16:32:08 time to go 2 sleep now Oct 23 16:32:56 hi! i finished the repo sync, now making... Oct 23 16:33:19 but where to point to use an arm cross compiler Oct 23 16:33:25 and where to tune the CFLAGS Oct 23 16:33:29 for all projects? Oct 23 16:34:11 solca: There's a prebuilt arm-eabi toolchain in the git tree. I'm currently trying to figure out how to use it without doing a full platform build, though. Oct 23 16:34:29 ttuttle: did you have a previous copy installed? Oct 23 16:34:43 andyross: where it is? and how to activate it so it build for arm? Oct 23 16:34:59 morrildl: Yeah. Oct 23 16:35:03 morrildl: Why? Do I need to uninstall? Oct 23 16:35:04 ahh nan, I'm such a bonehead. I was scrolling down right past the review option immediately Oct 23 16:35:04 ttuttle: uninstall it Oct 23 16:35:13 ttuttle: the key for the Market changed Oct 23 16:35:15 morrildl: Okay. Oct 23 16:35:16 morrildl: Ah. Oct 23 16:35:31 so the device is saying "B is trying to replace A, but B was not signed with the same key as A" Oct 23 16:35:41 morrildl: gotcha Oct 23 16:35:57 solca: in platform/prebuilt.git. There are pre-built toolchains (just gcc and binutils -- no libc unfortunately) there for linux and OS X, targetting "arm-eabi". Are you familiar with how gcc cross compilers work? Oct 23 16:36:46 morrildl: so i had heard some rumor about a OTA update today? Oct 23 16:36:56 andyross: thx!.. btw i'm familiar with cross-compilers, what do you want to do? Oct 23 16:37:43 jasta: there is an update pending, but I am not familiar with its timeline, etc. Oct 23 16:37:55 Build "int main(){return 0;}" at the moment. The libc on the device (obviously) doesn't have the crt.o startup code, so I need to build bionic. I'm bouncing around trying to figure out how to do that without waiting for a whole platform buid. Oct 23 16:38:00 will be nice to see that system flex its muscle so soon :) Oct 23 16:38:19 jasta: you can be that it will be flexed EXTREMELY conservatively this first time though :) Oct 23 16:38:36 i hear we can thank _avatar for this :) Oct 23 16:39:29 andyross: let me check the bionic build process Oct 23 16:40:09 I wasn't actually asking for help -- I included the question to see if I needed to explain that "just gcc and binutils" meant. :) But please do let me know if you get bionic building in isolation. :) Oct 23 16:41:43 ok, I'll let you know, now back to build the whole thing for arm Oct 23 16:41:55 <_avatar> jasta: yeah, i *think* it fixes a bug in our app, but i'm not entirely sure. i also heard there are a couple other small updates (again, could be wrong) Oct 23 16:42:02 Just out of annoyed curiosity: why is it that the build process requires a 2 year old version of python *and* a bleeding edge git? :) Oct 23 16:42:31 * jasta eyeballs FastScrollView in the contacts app Oct 23 16:44:06 there ought to be a wikipedia widget like the google search thing Oct 23 16:44:35 yakischloba: that is wikipedia had decent search. Oct 23 16:44:46 if wikipedia* Oct 23 16:46:12 there's decent search for wikipedia: go to www.google.com, search on site:en.wikipedia.org Oct 23 16:47:31 ok there is something seriously wrong here. (filed a bug #1017) .. i picked the local public wifi ("PUBLIC", good connection, no encryption) .. it connects, gets an IP pretty quick. {Home}-Browser .. it starts reloading mywoot.net for about 5 seconds, then drops back to edge and reloads. Oct 23 16:47:45 is there something in that list of actions that is incorrect? :( Oct 23 16:50:23 Disconnect: no, that shoudl work fine Oct 23 16:50:29 might be interesting to see logcat Oct 23 16:50:36 yah rebooting, then logcatting Oct 23 16:50:56 ive noticed that sometimes the wifi indicator doesnt "really" mean there is a dhcp lease under the hood Oct 23 16:51:06 * Disconnect thinks the 2min timeout is ridiculous, but this was even worse - never idle more than 10 seconds Oct 23 16:51:14 yah i watched it to make sure it got an address Oct 23 16:51:17 specifically regarding WPA handshaking Oct 23 16:52:09 hmm. that might explain probs at home, but the corp wlan is wep (sigh) and the public is.. well.. publick Oct 23 16:52:12 er, public. Oct 23 16:53:29 my g1 just arrived! Oct 23 16:54:19 When I try to do my build on my Mac, I get an error: "Could not load 'clearsilver-jni'" - a few lines leading up to the error are here: http://pastebin.com/m7118f229 Oct 23 16:54:23 Any idea what's wrong? Oct 23 16:54:36 ttuttle: Hmm, Market says Video Player is not correctly signed. << uninstall it first if you already installed it before Oct 23 16:54:53 (other than the obvious answer: it can't load clearsilver-jni....) - I guess the question is - how can I fix it so it can load clearsilver-jni ? Oct 23 16:55:14 <_avatar> i asked this last night, but going to ask again because there are different people around... Oct 23 16:55:53 <_avatar> anyone know if there's an easy way to change the shadow color of a ListView? the part that is drawn to indicate there are items off screen? Oct 23 16:56:05 _avatar: its done in photostream Oct 23 16:56:06 it's not a shadow Oct 23 16:56:25 it fades automatically with the background Oct 23 16:56:37 (at least when the cacheColorHint is 0 :) Oct 23 16:56:43 (otherwise, change the cacheColorHint) Oct 23 16:57:13 <_avatar> nice, thanks, let me try :) Oct 23 16:58:33 logcat is added to the bug report Oct 23 16:59:59 umdk1d3: Dumb terminology question: "photostream" ? Oct 23 17:00:20 andyross: its romainguys application in apps-for-android Oct 23 17:00:21 andyross: http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/#svn/trunk/Photostream Oct 23 17:00:59 Oh, OK. I read that as meaning it was an alternative API or whatnot. Oct 23 17:02:04 <_avatar> romainguy: colorCacheHint worked, thanks! Oct 23 17:05:13 _avatar: if your background is not a solid color (like in Photostream), use cacheCholorHint=0 Oct 23 17:05:26 that will go through the more expensive but more generic code path for the fade Oct 23 17:06:12 is it me or does the phone not last long when browsing on the internet Oct 23 17:06:24 tmo store down the block didn't have a working demo Oct 23 17:06:28 but did have handsets Oct 23 17:07:50 <_avatar> romainguy: in my case the background is a solid color, but thanks for the heads up Oct 23 17:07:59 michaelnovakjr: buzz != cash on the table. Oct 23 17:08:09 haha Oct 23 17:08:27 keyboard is a bit low Oct 23 17:09:28 umdk1d3: you there? Oct 23 17:09:33 sup Oct 23 17:10:39 umdk1d3: have you played with the contacts app? it has a neat alphabet indexed list effect that i really like. i'm digging through the design right now and it's quite tidy. Oct 23 17:10:53 i havent lookat that yet Oct 23 17:11:00 its part of the source drop, right? Oct 23 17:11:09 the actual widget doing this is a FrameLayout which contains only a ListView. it then gets the index by an interface which the adapter must implement Oct 23 17:11:17 are there any news about any android phones becoming available any time soon which does not have some exclusivety contract connected with it? (i.e. one that I'd be able to actually use) Oct 23 17:11:20 and they've generalized all the cursor magic in AlphabetIndexe Oct 23 17:11:23 very nicely put together Oct 23 17:11:25 umdk1d3: yeah Oct 23 17:11:29 they had that accelerated scroller in 0.9 somewhere, but then it disappeared Oct 23 17:11:36 i'm looking at lifting this for Five. i like the way it looks and is coded Oct 23 17:11:46 oh cool Oct 23 17:12:01 is it a shared class, or would you have to borrow code? Oct 23 17:12:06 it gives me a few ideas how to redesign some of my other widgets as well Oct 23 17:12:23 i had never really thought to interact with a ListView by just wrapping it in a FrameLayout Oct 23 17:12:26 rather than extending ListView Oct 23 17:12:34 umdk1d3: i'd have to borrow code Oct 23 17:12:46 loke: I read somewhere somewhen (maybe here?) that someone had found a $350US price from T-Mobile for a bare phone. No idea if that's real or not. Note that subsidized phones are just the way the industry works. Oct 23 17:13:01 well thats how that crossing-items thing works--it wraps listview in aa custom framelayout Oct 23 17:13:11 i was told $450 Oct 23 17:13:15 i was just at a store Oct 23 17:13:25 andyross: true, but so far only iphone and the G1 have been _only_ subsidised (i.e. not available normally) Oct 23 17:13:43 Or here's one for $550 you can buy right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/BROWN-T-MOBILE-G1-GOOGLE-ANDROID-PHONE-NO-CONTRACT_W0QQitemZ160294117677QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160294117677&_trkparms=72%3A1240|39%3A1|66%3A4|65%3A12|240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 Oct 23 17:14:01 androoid: the ones that are out now are not operator locked? Oct 23 17:14:18 I thought they were locked, but you could get an unlock code after ~2 months Oct 23 17:14:22 No idea if there's a lock or not. I only have a T-Mobile SIM. Oct 23 17:14:27 (once they show up here though they won't be locked, since it's illegal to operator-lock phones here) Oct 23 17:14:36 but... they haven Oct 23 17:14:41 but... they haven't shown up here yet :-( Oct 23 17:15:20 morrildl, jasonchen, SanMehat: Guys, may we maybe have an official android-dev channel? Oct 23 17:15:53 umdk1d3: ahh, well, you had a much more sensible approach than i :) Oct 23 17:16:23 Ah, sorry, you got it already. Wan't there yesterday. ;) Oct 23 17:16:30 jasta: There are plans to roll that fast scroll stuff into the platform, but feel free to use that code from contacts for now :-) Oct 23 17:17:57 umdk1d3: they solve problems in a pretty interesting way. i'm really enjoying looking at this source :) Oct 23 17:18:46 same here--some of this stuff is pure gold ^.^ Oct 23 17:18:52 in a good interesting way jasta? Oct 23 17:19:14 i'd never used this AsyncQueryHandler either, but it looks like i should start Oct 23 17:19:28 michaelnovakjr: yes, definintely Oct 23 17:19:34 :) Oct 23 17:19:35 AsyncQueryHandler is your friend Oct 23 17:19:41 this code is very nice to have. Oct 23 17:21:04 it would have been hard to know about any of these things, considering no public code used it until 2 days ago :) Oct 23 17:21:19 the source drop opened up a whole new world here. very exciting. Oct 23 17:21:35 jasta: youve seen UserTask, right? Oct 23 17:21:48 anyone know if the calendar app can pull in other calendars i've created under my google account? Oct 23 17:22:00 it's only pulling in the default calendar. Oct 23 17:22:02 any good place to catch up on developments etc since code release? long #android logs are looong Oct 23 17:22:05 yes, i saw that. i appreciate the elegance of the design, but i think the abstractions are a bit heavy for my usage. Oct 23 17:24:00 I am still giggling at the whole Amazon MP3 store on a phone without stereo playback thingie, hopefully that will get fixed soon Oct 23 17:24:01 anyone know if the calendar app can pull in other calendars i've created under my google account? Oct 23 17:24:02 yes Oct 23 17:24:13 languish: how? Oct 23 17:24:32 Ramblurr, you have to set it to show in your calandar settings on the website, then wait a bit.. it takes some time to sync up Oct 23 17:24:37 umdk1d3: are there any good IRC/SSH apps yet? Oct 23 17:25:31 http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/ Oct 23 17:25:43 My wife and I each have custom google apps for your domains hosted with google apps. Our calendars are on different domains (purposeful repetition there). We have them set up, so we can each see and edit eachothers calendars, and it works on our g1's Oct 23 17:25:43 Ramblurr: You can go to Calendar > menu > more > My Calendars Oct 23 17:25:46 (ssh - I haven't tried it so I can't attest to the "good" part) Oct 23 17:25:50 I said good, not written by Jeffrey :) Oct 23 17:26:03 Ramblurr: Then menu > Add Calendars Oct 23 17:26:03 * jasta hides Oct 23 17:26:04 ohsnap =O Oct 23 17:26:09 lol Oct 23 17:26:22 hah Oct 23 17:26:24 hamdroid: ah thanks, i didnt think of hitting the menu key on that screen Oct 23 17:26:30 hey! what 'target thumn' means? Oct 23 17:26:40 jasta: i havent looked around much for irc apps tho Oct 23 17:26:48 s/target thumn/target thumb Oct 23 17:26:50 umdk1d3: hows ConnectBot work? Oct 23 17:26:53 was wondering out loud earlier today if they might fit into the IM plugin pattery Oct 23 17:26:54 hamdroid: what about pulling in gmail/calendars from other google accounts? Oct 23 17:26:59 ohh you screen irssi, thats exactly what i wanted to do Oct 23 17:27:10 yep, i live in screen+irssi ^.^ Oct 23 17:27:15 solca: It's compiling c/c++ code for the Thumb instruction set Oct 23 17:27:22 so connectbot works pretty good for that case? :) Oct 23 17:27:29 lol its getting there :/ Oct 23 17:27:33 Ramblurr, you can do it. you need to configure them on the website to show in your calendar Oct 23 17:27:35 all the terminal emulation stuff works decently well Oct 23 17:27:42 hamdroid: for ARM? I though it was compiling for x86 Oct 23 17:27:43 but there are still some connection issues to sort out Oct 23 17:27:47 well, so far the connectbot connected succesfully to 2 out of 3 hosts I tried Oct 23 17:27:51 during the loginprocess Oct 23 17:27:53 solca: More recent ARM CPUs have the 32bit ARM instruction set as well as the 16bit Thumb instrcution set Oct 23 17:28:07 solca: The target means it's compiling for a phone/emulator Oct 23 17:28:14 umdk1d3: one thing that must be supported: the ability to run a series of commands after connection Oct 23 17:28:22 ooh Oct 23 17:28:28 yes Oct 23 17:28:29 auto-typing or something Oct 23 17:28:29 so you can setup a profile to simply ssh foo screen -dr Oct 23 17:28:31 solca: If it says host <...> then it's compiling for your desktop Oct 23 17:28:41 click a button and sign onto irc, that type of thing Oct 23 17:28:43 ooh jasta we have desktop shortcuts working ^.^ Oct 23 17:28:48 jasta, definitely Oct 23 17:28:50 hamdroid: by default make it compiles for both x86 and arm qemu? Oct 23 17:29:06 umdk1d3: bleh, i'm just gonna install this. should i build myself or install ConnectBot-10.apk? Oct 23 17:29:09 100* Oct 23 17:29:16 heh Oct 23 17:29:34 jasta: 100 is pretty stable Oct 23 17:29:52 its not happy with wierd passwords tho Oct 23 17:29:56 that contain symbols Oct 23 17:29:57 solca: It compiles some tools and qemu itself for x86, and most of the rest of the code for ARM/Thumb Oct 23 17:29:59 at least from some reports Oct 23 17:30:06 umdk1d3: define weird passwords Oct 23 17:30:46 Thumb is a joke. It's only worth it if (1) you have a *lot* of binary code to store and (2) don't mind the lower performance (and battery life). And maybe somewhere there's an algorithm that can run from L1 icache using thumb but not arm. Maybe. Oct 23 17:30:52 idk i havent experienced any issues, but ive only used a test acct with lowercase+numbs Oct 23 17:31:19 does this happen to anyone else: when changing the orientation using numpad 7, it restarts the app? Oct 23 17:31:33 Every ISA has some level of insanity, this is ARMs. "Hey, I have an idea! Let's take this tiny core designed for embedded use and add a second instruction decode unit to it! Yes! Go with that!" Oct 23 17:31:39 andyross: it saves space on flash storage, and requires fewer pages to be mapped Oct 23 17:31:51 andyross: It depends. Often times the instruction stream gets smaller, which means less time spent reading instructions from flash, which tends to be slow Oct 23 17:32:07 Just barely though. When I was doing this stuff, the savings was about 20% or so. Oct 23 17:32:21 20% of 10MB is not something to sneeze at Oct 23 17:32:45 Assuming, of course, that you find sneezing an appropriate way to express yourself in the first place. Oct 23 17:32:48 hamdroid: and what if I want to compile for ARMv6 with CFLAGS like '-Os -funit-at-a-time' and compiler gcc-4.2.4 binutils-2.18? Oct 23 17:32:54 Remember that it's not free though. Again, you're looking at battery power to drive all those extra cycles. Oct 23 17:32:55 where I overide that? Oct 23 17:33:20 solca: I'm not certain which file, but it's certainly in build/... somewhere Oct 23 17:33:30 andyross: look at dalvik/vm/Android.mk Oct 23 17:33:42 solca: Note that the emulator (qemu) we're using only supports ARMv5T Oct 23 17:33:55 LOCAL_SRC_FILES has the list of .c files. Note that some of them have ".arm" appended. Oct 23 17:34:10 We use this to build the stuff that needs to be fast (or must be ARM for some other reason) in ARM. Everything else is THUMB. Oct 23 17:34:29 The idea is to get the performance benefits of ARM and the size reduction of THUMB all at once. Oct 23 17:34:56 andyross: I think the argument about extra cycles doesn't quite hold water. The Thumb instruction set was designed around the most-used instructions. Put another way, a lot of the instructions you lose are in the "never used" category. They did *a lot* of code analysis when they were designing the Thumb opcodes. Oct 23 17:35:07 hamdroid: I want to run it on a different qemu but I'm not familiar with the dir layout yet Oct 23 17:35:21 Sure, if you're willing to do all the benchmarking. I'm not saying "never use thumb". I'm saying that the feature was a mistake, it shouldn't be on the core, and those transistors should be used for something more useful (like cache). Oct 23 17:35:31 heh, why is onCreate called again when changing orientation? Oct 23 17:36:03 rob---: because your activity is restarted Oct 23 17:36:03 hamdroid: maybe with the env vars TARGET_ARCH & TARGET_OS? Oct 23 17:36:17 andyross: Jazelle was a mistake. THUMB has its uses. Oct 23 17:36:32 is there anyway to just change the layout without calling oncreate again? Oct 23 17:36:46 Al Sutton out there ? Oct 23 17:36:52 and modifying build/core/combo/linux-arm.mk ? Oct 23 17:36:56 stadlero: thumb is a 2 operand instruction set, arm is 3. thumb has 8 (well, 7), arm has 16 (er, 15). The limited scope of thumb means that you're spending more time copying temporaries and spilling/filling registers to memory. Those are all wasted cycles. It's not about which instructions are fast or slow. Oct 23 17:37:04 rob---: no, and you should really stick to this, it's not an issue; all the system Android apps do this Oct 23 17:37:17 rob---: this guarantees that you will get the resources that correspond to the current configuration Oct 23 17:37:27 And yes, Jazelle is clearly a bigger mistake. But I don't know anything about it because they don't actually document it, so I can't flame as convincingly. Oct 23 17:37:29 so a factory wipe will take out all my info (obviously) and installed apps. what about sms's? will they be pulled from google or are they local to the device? Oct 23 17:37:29 problem is it starts a new thread and a connection to the server Oct 23 17:37:34 Ok, I think I found the solution to my problem. Perhaps it might make a good addition to "known issues" - I was getting this error: http://pastebin.com/m572b642b - and even though I had my ANDROID_JAVA_HOME pointing to Java 1.5 - it looks like it was pulling javac straight out of my PATH - because once I changed the javac in my path from java 1.6 to java 1.5 this error went away Oct 23 17:38:00 rob---: these are things you should stop in onDestroy() or pass to your future self to keep a reference to them Oct 23 17:38:14 rob---: when your activit is restarted, the savedInstance Bundle is != null Oct 23 17:38:23 oh i see Oct 23 17:38:23 rob---: you can use this to avoid reloading things you already have Oct 23 17:38:31 cool, thanks Oct 23 17:39:05 The easiest way to get Java 1.5 to be used by default on the mac is to use the "Java Preferences" installed by default at /Applications/Utilities/Java/ - and dragging J2SE5 (64-bit) up to the top of the "Java Application Runtime Settings" - and then confirming it's working by executing `javac -version` and seeing that it's reporting 1.5 Oct 23 17:39:33 I thought that it would pull javac from ANDROID_JAVA_HOME, but I thought wrong (obviously) Oct 23 17:39:47 solca: Look for TARGET_GLOBAL_CFLAGS and TARGET_GLOBAL_CPPFLAGS in build/config.mk Oct 23 17:40:23 This is a minor build issue - I could put a check for it in the makefile to confirm that javac is a 1.5 version and give a warning if it isn't - but would such a patch be deemed valuable? Oct 23 17:41:06 RyeBrye: this is weird, because the build works with Java 1.6 Oct 23 17:41:10 might depend on the verison of Java 1.6 Oct 23 17:41:14 Interesting Oct 23 17:41:15 window show 3 Oct 23 17:41:26 andyross: I think the point about Thumb is that "make code faster" is not always the primary constraint in small system design. I'm sorry you don't agree with the design of Thumb, but a lot of system designers do, and the feature has been generally well-received. You're welcome to compile all of your code in ARM (that choice is one of the nice aspects of the design, in my opinion). Oct 23 17:41:32 RyeBrye: you could try with javac 1.6 and the flags -source 1.5 -target 1.5 Oct 23 17:41:39 romainguy: I THOUGHT it should work with Java 6 - but last night someone told me it was only java 1.5 Oct 23 17:41:51 RyeBrye: if possible, use 1.5 Oct 23 17:41:57 i was using 1.6 but its a pain Oct 23 17:42:05 because of certain things Oct 23 17:42:11 romainguy: I've been too lazy to install the latest apple update for java Oct 23 17:42:12 i went back to 1.5 Oct 23 17:42:22 RyeBrye: ah Apple... Apple's Java suck :) Oct 23 17:42:32 Yes, yes they do Oct 23 17:42:40 besides, our code base is Java 1.5, and Java 1.6 has a language change that we don't want to see in the code Oct 23 17:42:50 so it's best to use Java 1.5 just to make sure this change doesn't slip in :) Oct 23 17:43:02 romainguy_ which change are you referring to? Oct 23 17:43:03 hamdroid: thx! looking... but it seems to me the wrong file to edit, build/combo/linux-arm.mk seems better though Oct 23 17:43:13 RyeBrye: @Override on interface implementations Oct 23 17:43:26 romainguy_ - gotcha. Oct 23 17:43:52 solca: Ah, yes, that one does look like a better place to make that kind of change :-) Oct 23 17:44:36 Did Java 1.6 change something at the .class file level? I thought it was all compiler-side modifications, no? Oct 23 17:44:44 The classfile format changed. Oct 23 17:44:53 you need the @override in 1.6 Oct 23 17:45:02 you don't need it no Oct 23 17:45:11 it throws an error doesn't it? Oct 23 17:45:12 solca: I don't know our build system very well, but if you're interested in getting thigns building for ARMv6 and submitting the patch I suspect it would be best to add somethign new like linux-armv6.mk in there Oct 23 17:45:28 solca: And then getting the build system to use that one instead, though honestly I don't know how to do that Oct 23 17:45:36 michaelnovakjr: @override is always optional Oct 23 17:45:41 Ugh, guys. Could you probably remplace "To build the Android source under Linux, you will need Ubuntu." on the "get sources" page with something more neutral? Oct 23 17:45:46 michaelnovakjr: but if you use it on interface implementations it won't compile with 1.5 Oct 23 17:45:53 solca: You could try mailing the android-platform mailing list, I think some of the build system maintainers are on that list Oct 23 17:45:53 that is what it was Oct 23 17:45:58 i remember having issues with that Oct 23 17:46:25 hamdroid: I was thinking the same, to add a new file, I just searching how to override the TARGET_OS and TARGET_ARCH without touching too many things Oct 23 17:46:32 @override on interface implementations that aren't inherited? that seems stupid Oct 23 17:46:44 Like, "We have tested it wuth Ubuntu, but probably any sufficiently recent Linux distribution would do". Oct 23 17:47:17 xl0: When that was written it didn't compile on other distros ;-) Seriously though, I'll ask someone to update it Oct 23 17:47:18 RyeBrye: it actually makes a lot of sense Oct 23 17:47:27 solca: have you seen http://benno.id.au/blog/ ? Oct 23 17:47:53 You have to be careful; The less specific about the build environment, the more lost time spent by people whos distro didn't, in fact, work. Oct 23 17:48:26 I would appreciate some blatant anti-windows jabs on hte "get source" page Oct 23 17:48:39 fadden: last time I checked that blog was when the guy tried to build for the neo Oct 23 17:48:54 fadden: it seems there is the info I need Oct 23 17:49:00 fadden: thx!! Oct 23 17:49:40 hamdroid: Thanks. Oct 23 17:50:08 Things that are outright insulting to windows users would be wonderful - like "Android source is not available on windows platform at this point. This is because anyone who chooses to develop on windows is clearly a _________ with ________ and would not be capable of _______ _______ ______." Oct 23 17:50:14 ;) Oct 23 17:50:20 answers many questions ;-) Oct 23 17:50:21 http://source.android.com/roadmap Oct 23 17:51:07 Does the G1 require a new SIM card for t-mobile, or will existing ones work? Oct 23 17:51:24 It worked with my existing card that I've been using for 3.5 years now. Oct 23 17:51:25 RyeBrye++ Oct 23 17:51:34 RyeBrye: Works with my AT&T SIM ;-) Oct 23 17:51:50 the second wave of G1's should be hitting around november 10th? Oct 23 17:51:52 I guess that answers the "are they locked?" question too, then. Oct 23 17:52:04 ttuttle - does it really? Oct 23 17:52:19 RyeBrye: he has an engineering device Oct 23 17:52:23 Ah, gotcha Oct 23 17:53:07 romainguy__ so where can we get those :) Oct 23 17:53:07 aside from being unlocked - are there any other differences between the engineering and production ones? Oct 23 17:53:42 you can't Oct 23 17:54:04 RyeBrye: yes, most of our engineering devices are crappy prototypes with hardwares bugs :) Oct 23 17:54:10 I wouldn't want a G1 engineering device anyway... Oct 23 17:54:16 and with huge laser-etched serial numbers everywhere Oct 23 17:54:20 i wouldn't mind :) Oct 23 17:54:23 RyeBrye: Yeah, but I've got an unlocked one ;-) Oct 23 17:54:26 I'd want an engineering device for some new phone that they can't talk about because it's under NDA Oct 23 17:54:27 but ttuttle's is the same as the production G1 Oct 23 17:54:33 :) Oct 23 17:54:34 romainguy__: Nah, mine doesn't have the etched numbers. Oct 23 17:54:49 ttuttle: I said "most" not "all" Oct 23 17:54:54 romainguy__: It's a real production one, just with an unlocked radio and bootloader. Oct 23 17:54:57 romainguy__: Oh, I didn't see that bit. Oct 23 17:55:01 I know what it is ttuttle Oct 23 17:55:12 romainguy__: Okay! Oct 23 17:55:17 Is the bootloader locked too on the G1?! Oct 23 17:55:22 * ttuttle scampers away. Oct 23 17:55:26 hmmmmmmm..... unlocked radio? Oct 23 17:55:28 haha Oct 23 17:55:29 :) Oct 23 17:55:36 RyeBrye: Yeah, as in lets you use any SIM. Oct 23 17:55:40 xl0: you can't flash your custom build Oct 23 17:55:43 RyeBrye: By "radio" I mean the cell chip. Oct 23 17:55:50 ttuttle: that is slick Oct 23 17:55:52 RyeBrye: It can't transmit on any frequency I choose ;-) Oct 23 17:55:52 There are two separate locks Oct 23 17:55:54 romainguy__: That sucks. Oct 23 17:56:01 michaelnovakjr: Yeah, it's nice. Oct 23 17:56:02 romainguy__: How is it enforced? Oct 23 17:56:05 yeah, I wasn't thinking FM radio or anything - I was thinking you could turn it into a pretty sweet GSM sniffer Oct 23 17:56:08 One in the bootloader (for reflashing) and one in the radio FW (for SIM lock) Oct 23 17:56:12 ttuttle: i just want a device to develop with Oct 23 17:56:23 xl0: no idea, I'm a UI guy, ask swetland Oct 23 17:56:25 RyeBrye: Nah, you'd have to reverse-engineer Qualcomm's firmware to do that. Oct 23 17:56:29 The two locks are completely independent of each other Oct 23 17:56:29 Hi all, I'm having trouble getting the ApiDemo sample app to run on the G1. It seems to work fine under the emulator. Is this the right channel for that kind of question? Oct 23 17:56:40 n3rdboi: what is your issue? Oct 23 17:57:02 swetland: Would you tell us how to break the G1 lockdown mechanism? Oct 23 17:57:10 xl0: :-P Oct 23 17:57:11 Hmm... So in order to reflash our T-mobile G1's with custom builds, we'll have to hack it first... Oct 23 17:57:13 oh well... Oct 23 17:57:15 Doable Oct 23 17:57:15 xl0: swetland probably wants to keep his job. Oct 23 17:57:33 haha xl0 you actually asked haha Oct 23 17:57:40 lol Oct 23 17:57:41 michaelnovakjr: Never hurts to ask. Oct 23 17:57:44 true Oct 23 17:57:49 Hi, romainguy_ when I run "ant install" to install to the device, I get a single app icon instead of a folder and when I tap it, it just prints hello world. Oct 23 17:57:54 he could say yea sure :) Oct 23 17:58:03 n3rdboi: then it works :) Oct 23 17:58:09 ??? Oct 23 17:58:15 hello world is the demo :) Oct 23 17:58:19 n3rdboi: more seriously, where are you typing ant install? Oct 23 17:58:19 he could report him directly to the DMCA and MPAA and RIA and whoever else is enforcing the thought police these days though! ;) Oct 23 17:58:31 n3rdboi: it seems like you're installing the default Eclipse project Oct 23 17:58:45 Under the emulator I get a folder that allows me to select a whole bunch of different subapps. Oct 23 17:58:52 michaelnovakjr: I'm sure we will get unlocked G1's quite soon anyway... Oct 23 17:58:54 What kind of bootloader does the G1 use? or is that not released? Oct 23 17:58:58 n3rdboi: the build and install steps should be identical for device & emulator Oct 23 17:59:02 n3rdboi: where are you typing ant install? Oct 23 17:59:19 xl0 - sounds like there are 2 locks though - the sim lock and the bootloader lock... so even 'unlocked' G1's might not really be 'unlocked' Oct 23 17:59:20 I just used the activitycreator script from the command line (x86 gentoo). Oct 23 17:59:20 AL SUTTON ? Oct 23 17:59:22 PM ME !! Oct 23 17:59:28 "ant install" Oct 23 17:59:43 n3rdboi: what directory were you in Oct 23 17:59:51 All you guys who hav gotten your own copy, hows the phone Oct 23 18:00:07 * n3rdboi is checking... Oct 23 18:00:18 RyeBrye: carriers and manufacturers never release docs on things like bootloaders. Google may not even have written it. What you need to hope for is for someone to crack it a la the iPhone jailbreak stuff. Oct 23 18:00:25 I guess I'm going to get an iPhone. The roadmap states that the input method framework won't be worked on until Q1 2009. I assume that that also means no sexy HTC hardware without a physical keyboard until about Q2 or Q3 Oct 23 18:01:14 I did: Oct 23 18:01:18 activitycreator --out ApiDemos ../android_tools/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1/samples/ApiDemos/AndroidManifest.xml Oct 23 18:01:18 andyross - I'm not surprised that they haven't released it - just curious if they said "it uses redboot on x" - anyone taken one apart to see if it has jtag headers on it? Oct 23 18:01:43 Not me certainly. Reverse engineering makes my eyes cross. No doubt someone will, though. Oct 23 18:01:47 to create build.xml, then ran "ant install" from the same dir that had build.xml in it. Oct 23 18:02:02 andyross - and I'm not probably going to wait for 'someone' to do it... The second I get my phone I'll be starting my quest Oct 23 18:02:05 RyeBrye: the 2 stage unlock is why iphone types talk about 'jailbreak' and 'unlocked' Oct 23 18:03:57 ok Oct 23 18:04:03 Disconnect - kind of - but 'jailbreak' is more of a software level thing which isn't necessary on the G1 AFAIK - and 'unlocked' is a SIM level thing - which on the iPhone can be done via either a hardware sim modification (i.e a sim piggy-back thing) or at the device level AFTER the phone is 'pwned' and the bootloader / baseband can be flashed Oct 23 18:04:07 n3rdboi: The build steps should be the same for emulator & device, and the output should be ApiDemos.apk. I don't use "ant install", but I do use "adb install path-to-apk" and maybe you can try that. (Protip: Use adb -d for device, adb -e for emulator.) Oct 23 18:04:09 got into 3G land at lunch, got 829kbps on bbr speedtest Oct 23 18:04:18 So in Android terms - we want Pwn'ed not jailbreak so we can flash our own crap on it Oct 23 18:04:44 tethridge: I've been back and forth....to the jest of many here ;-) Oct 23 18:06:16 has anyone delt with making a contentprovider return a file through a helper function? Oct 23 18:06:24 marcone: Marco should go through /lastlog jasonchen Oct 23 18:06:30 whoops Oct 23 18:06:34 stupid buffer Oct 23 18:07:19 was update pushed yet Oct 23 18:08:04 hmmm... do I need to be building release. "ant" -> builds ApiDemos-debug.apk. "ant release" ->ApiDemos-unsigned.apk, and I get a warning that it will need to be signed. Oct 23 18:08:20 that's fine Oct 23 18:08:24 it needs to be signed if you distribute it Oct 23 18:11:02 * jasta analyzes Email app code... Oct 23 18:11:04 The unsigned .apk doesn't install on the device: Oct 23 18:11:08 adb -d install bin/ApiDemos-unsigned.apk Oct 23 18:11:08 53 KB/s (2899 bytes in 0.052s) Oct 23 18:11:08 pkg: /data/local/tmp/ApiDemos-unsigned.apk Oct 23 18:11:08 Failure [INSTALL_PARSE_FAILED_NO_CERTIFICATES] Oct 23 18:11:26 n3rdboi: umm right, you need to sign it lol Oct 23 18:11:29 or sign it with debug cert Oct 23 18:11:51 the -debug.apk should be signed with your debug cert Oct 23 18:12:08 oh yeah sorry, install the -debug.apk Oct 23 18:13:07 romainguy__: the app code here is very well documented. nice job ;) Oct 23 18:13:16 i mean, nice job google hehe Oct 23 18:13:37 really? Oct 23 18:13:40 have you read Home's code?? Oct 23 18:13:48 well i didnt read any of _your_ code yet. Oct 23 18:13:49 ;) Oct 23 18:13:54 I think he's reading email Oct 23 18:14:05 Right, the -debug.apk installs fine but behaves differently on the device than the emulator. i.e. I get a single icon which when clicked prints "Hello World, ApiDemos" on the device, but shows a folder of subapps on the emulator. Oct 23 18:14:07 i'm digging through the Email app and there is a broad overview of the entire system design in here Oct 23 18:14:19 and an overview of how it synchronizes, how it deals with IMAP versus POP, etc. Oct 23 18:14:21 very detailed Oct 23 18:14:24 n3rdboi: then you didn't build ApiDemos, but a Hello World of some sort Oct 23 18:14:32 aww we didnt get the new Home in the source dump? Oct 23 18:14:38 jasta: ah yes, the guy who wrote Email is really goood Oct 23 18:14:41 umdk1d3: yes you did Oct 23 18:14:47 jasta, the contractor wrote that code Oct 23 18:14:57 n3rdboi: I know that this is a bit of a sidetrack, but is there any reason you're not using the Eclipse SDK to build & install? It automates more of these requirements. Oct 23 18:15:16 Eclipse is bloated and annoying. Oct 23 18:15:21 romainguy__: unfortunately to support IMAP IDLE, i will need to tear down some of these abstractions Oct 23 18:15:29 Not knowing eclipse is kind of a handicap, though. Oct 23 18:15:31 well don't tear down too much Oct 23 18:15:33 what ttuttle said. Oct 23 18:15:38 the problem with generalizing IMAP and POP3 as the same system is that one is much better than the other Oct 23 18:15:44 have you noticed that the IMAP part of the email app doesn't sync changes back to the server? Oct 23 18:15:46 n3rdboi: your choice. I was just asking. Oct 23 18:15:53 so you cant generalize perfectly. for instance, IMAP IDLE will need an entirely different execution model to work than POP3. Oct 23 18:16:00 deletes or marking as read dont get pushed back for me Oct 23 18:16:03 romainguy__: im not seeing the new Home on http://git.source.android.com/ was it renamed to something else? Oct 23 18:16:04 umdk1d3: http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/packages/apps/Launcher.git;a=summary Oct 23 18:16:10 ahh its launcher now :) Oct 23 18:16:18 anyone know of a weather widget? Oct 23 18:16:23 romainguy__: of course not, but i will need to break up the MessagingController a bit to not consider an IMAP IDLE sync as a "command" to execute. Oct 23 18:16:35 Ramblurr: Aren't there some weather apps in the market? Oct 23 18:16:47 yea, but as far as i can tell none of them come with widgets Oct 23 18:16:51 Ramblurr: you might use tango desktop icons for weather http://tango.freedesktop.org/Image:Tango-feet.png Oct 23 18:16:59 What exactly would a weather widget do? Oct 23 18:17:00 the service also will need to break up how it deals with checking for new mail for IMAP. i suppose we can schedule commands on the boundary of the IDLE wait. but still, the design will be less general once i'm done here. Oct 23 18:17:03 Ramblurr: You cannot develop custom widgets yet. Oct 23 18:17:04 oh by widgets you mean desktop widges Oct 23 18:17:26 stadlero: show me sun and the temp if it's hot.. or a rain cloud and temp if it's raining.. etc. Oct 23 18:17:35 desktop widgets are built in Launcher/home Oct 23 18:17:37 ttuttle: ah, limitation of the sdk? Oct 23 18:17:42 Ramblurr: isn't that what a window is for? Oct 23 18:17:43 Ramblurr: Yeah. Oct 23 18:17:53 we have plans for that but it requires extensive changes and news features in the framework Oct 23 18:17:53 romainguy__: the biggest change is that the service will no longer be woken up to run, it will always run when there are IMAP IDLE-supporting accounts. Oct 23 18:17:56 You meant desktop widgets, yes? Sorry, I thought you meant UI widgets in the SDK. Oct 23 18:17:57 Ramblurr: It's difficult to display parts of one app in another app. Oct 23 18:19:01 ah Oct 23 18:19:15 which would explain why a 3rd party touch screen keyboard Oct 23 18:19:18 would be hard to make Oct 23 18:19:53 the problem with soft keyboards is that the framework lacks support for them Oct 23 18:20:04 and I'm not talking about displaying a keyboard and sending events to TextViews Oct 23 18:20:11 will be interesting to see some of the 3rd party stuff that comes out of IME. Oct 23 18:20:26 I'm talking about how to deal with resizing the application to make room for the keyboard Oct 23 18:20:30 etc. Oct 23 18:20:41 anyway, we're working on IMF, our support for IME Oct 23 18:21:10 romainguy, have you guys already started on IMF? Oct 23 18:21:29 yes Oct 23 18:21:34 great Oct 23 18:21:53 you're giving me hope Oct 23 18:21:55 hmmm... so it looks like there's something messed up in my build environment. The ApiDemo app should work the same on the emulator and the device. I'll dig into my build setup. Thanks for your help. Oct 23 18:22:31 romainguy__: it kinda does support software keyboards, for accented chars, but yea doesnt adjust the activity size Oct 23 18:22:46 umdk1d3: no, the accented chars are not a soft keyboard at all Oct 23 18:22:50 it's just a trick in TextView Oct 23 18:23:04 ohh ic Oct 23 18:23:33 it's just a Dialog Oct 23 18:23:40 * ttuttle wants a Facebook client for Android. Oct 23 18:23:48 ttuttle: ..... Oct 23 18:23:54 ttuttle: same here, altho theyve pretty much said they dont like android Oct 23 18:23:59 umdk1d3: They're jerks. Oct 23 18:24:01 will have to be thirdparty Oct 23 18:24:03 good. who likes facebook? Oct 23 18:24:08 facebook is stupid. Oct 23 18:24:08 i do Oct 23 18:24:10 i do Oct 23 18:24:11 Dougie187: Many of my friends happen to use it. Oct 23 18:24:18 i use facebook Oct 23 18:24:18 same here, but its stupid still Oct 23 18:24:20 all social networking is pretty much on the same level of failure Oct 23 18:24:21 its better than myspace Oct 23 18:24:22 * BBHoss wants someone to send this broke startup-developer a G1 so he can develop on real hardware Oct 23 18:24:23 Dougie187: Frankly I'd prefer if they all just used email, but it's a necessity of college life. Oct 23 18:24:26 they're just probably apple fanboys Oct 23 18:24:27 all anyone does on facebook is stalk people. Oct 23 18:24:44 Dougie187: who + finger + Facebook = scary Oct 23 18:24:47 Commooon I need a client for IRC, SSH, Facebook, Twitter. Oct 23 18:24:59 i vote for client for irc Oct 23 18:25:01 Penguin2: there's a shitty ssh client Oct 23 18:25:03 Dougie187: but you must admit that its useful for that Oct 23 18:25:06 Dougie187: See someone at a computer, find out their username, look up their real name, find them on Facebook, suddenly you know everything about them. Oct 23 18:25:08 Penguin2: connectbot Oct 23 18:25:13 muiro: oh be nice :P Oct 23 18:25:13 androoid: Yeah, I'd prefer IRC to Facebook. Oct 23 18:25:14 how shitty Oct 23 18:25:16 androoid: I use IRC more. Oct 23 18:25:30 i've never been a big fan of irc on a phone though Oct 23 18:25:32 ttuttle: yeah, thats why i think its stupid. Oct 23 18:25:41 umdk1d3, Penguin2: ok, not "shitty", but "poor" and "featureless" Oct 23 18:25:46 muiro: if you want a better ssh client, feel free to jump in Oct 23 18:25:49 does it support ssh keys Oct 23 18:25:53 umdk1d3: I intend to Oct 23 18:26:02 Penguin2: it actualy looks like it does, but Ihaven't bothered t otry Oct 23 18:26:09 irssi will end up on android Oct 23 18:26:10 ttuttle: its dumb that its so easy for people to stalk the crap out of you, and thats what most people use it for. if you look at the uses of facebook hardly any of it is for actually social networking, most of it is creepy stalking Oct 23 18:26:12 muiro: Penguin2 it doesnt atm, but coming soon Oct 23 18:26:16 it ended up on the sidekick Oct 23 18:26:21 Dougie187: So, the problem is that most people post stupid shit. Oct 23 18:26:21 umdk1d3: you're the dev? Oct 23 18:26:30 ttuttle: yeah. exactly. Oct 23 18:26:36 Dougie187: Eh, I'd disagree. I've never had any trouble with stalking, and none of my friends have ever mentioned it. Oct 23 18:26:41 umdk1d3, hurry up :) Oct 23 18:26:47 ttuttle: would you tell people if you stalked people? Oct 23 18:26:52 Dougie187: I'd say I don't care about over half of the stuff I see, but it's still useful to find stuff. Oct 23 18:26:56 * vol is watching you masturbate Oct 23 18:27:05 ttuttle: would you go home to you friends and say, "Hey, i stalked these girls last night. it was awesome" Oct 23 18:27:11 Dougie187: If somsone posts personal stuff, and others read it without saying anything... who cares? Oct 23 18:27:27 Dougie187, that sounds like half of EFnet Oct 23 18:27:27 Dougie187: Facebook stalking only works if someone "asks to be stalked". Oct 23 18:27:29 ttuttle: i just think its dumb. thats all. Oct 23 18:27:44 Dougie187: Eh. I don't really mind. I don't put stuff up I don't want to share. Oct 23 18:27:56 speaking of which, here's jerkface03 Oct 23 18:28:07 ...? Oct 23 18:28:15 ttuttle: me either, but imo its significantly different then what it should be. Oct 23 18:28:24 facebook vs. social networking Oct 23 18:28:30 Dougie187: How would you change it? Oct 23 18:28:38 take it back a couple years. Oct 23 18:28:40 Dougie187: Anything done to "limit stalking" would also limit legitimate use. Oct 23 18:28:42 jerkface03 is a bot, for what purpose I don't know.. logging or spamming It's on efnet too Oct 23 18:28:53 before everyone started making retarded apps and when only college students could get accts. Oct 23 18:29:05 Dougie187: Oh, yeah, get rid of apps. I agree. Oct 23 18:29:12 Dougie187: Also, I'd like college and high school to be separated. Oct 23 18:29:15 poetic_folly?! Oct 23 18:29:30 Dougie187: Actually, I'm not sure. I find it useful to communicate with my friends who are still in high school. Oct 23 18:29:34 umdk1d3: hope I didn't hurt your feelings Oct 23 18:29:35 The difference between "stalking" and "social networking" is about intent, not software. The same actions done by two people mean very different things. You can't fix that like a bug. Oct 23 18:29:44 ttuttle: totally. i wish you were by default restricted in the networks you could join. or had some basis that you were required to have to join. Oct 23 18:29:44 == andyross Oct 23 18:30:04 ttuttle: but you could be in the network for your town or something to talk to them. you don't need to see all of the other highschoolers. Oct 23 18:30:05 Dougie187: Yes. That was the big thing that made Facebook not suck. You were representing some group (school, college, employer). Oct 23 18:30:20 Dougie187: True, but location networks creep me out. Oct 23 18:31:11 ttuttle: i was actually having a similar discussion with the lover of all SN a while ago about this, i think SN shouldn't be so much about entertaining people, it should be more about networking. Oct 23 18:31:19 ttuttle: but most people disagree with me about that i gues. Oct 23 18:31:20 lol Oct 23 18:31:21 guess* Oct 23 18:31:23 Dougie187: I totally agree. Oct 23 18:31:26 on connectbot Oct 23 18:31:47 Dougie187: so use linkedin and ignore the rest Oct 23 18:31:48 Dougie187: I mean, I'd rather use Facebook to talk to friends than play games or do stupid shit. Oct 23 18:31:58 Disconnect: yeah, i hear thats a good one for it. Oct 23 18:32:09 Disconnect: LinkedIn is bad because it's not free for many uses. Oct 23 18:32:27 ttuttle: yeah, or use facebook to keep track of them (contact info) and email to talk to them. Oct 23 18:32:33 Dougie187: Yeah. Oct 23 18:32:47 ttuttle: like facebook as an online address book. Oct 23 18:32:51 Dougie187: Other bits are useful, though, like Groups. Oct 23 18:33:00 damn. this ssh client aint too bad Oct 23 18:33:00 Dougie187: And, again, you *could* do that elsewhere, but it's less spontaneous. Oct 23 18:33:06 jasta: ConnectBot? Oct 23 18:33:11 yeah Oct 23 18:33:15 ttuttle: yeah, but there are quite a few stupid and useless groups on there. Oct 23 18:33:18 jasta: Does it support ctrl/alt+keys, or pgup? Oct 23 18:33:25 ttuttle: like, "I can pee in two directions at the same time" Oct 23 18:33:25 some rough edges, but its doable Oct 23 18:33:30 Dougie187: Yeah. I created the "Anything But x86 Fan Club" the other day. Oct 23 18:33:35 Dougie187: Yeah, but that will happen anywhere. Oct 23 18:33:43 Dougie187: Have you looked at the jokes people send by email lately? Oct 23 18:33:46 jasta wasn't it you who was busting my chops about doing ssh on the g1? Oct 23 18:33:51 so how is the phone? Oct 23 18:33:53 no Oct 23 18:33:57 ttuttle: yeah. thats what happens when stupid people get online. no i have not see the jokes. Oct 23 18:34:00 hey kslater :) Oct 23 18:34:02 Hey guys, i've been looking around online, maybe someone here can answer my question. Oct 23 18:34:07 Ooh, good point: has someone hacked up an ssh client for the G1 yet? Oct 23 18:34:09 romain Oct 23 18:34:22 andyross yes Oct 23 18:34:23 Is there a way to access the linux shell while using the g1 Oct 23 18:34:31 ITechJunkie: Not on a production device yet. Oct 23 18:34:32 andyross, yes they have Oct 23 18:34:45 Link? :) Didn't see it in the market, but maybe that stuff would never appear. Oct 23 18:34:46 ITechJunkie: (I think.) Oct 23 18:34:53 ttuttle: adb shell works :) Oct 23 18:34:58 andyross, google connect bot Oct 23 18:35:01 romainguy__: Oh, true. Oct 23 18:35:11 romainguy__: That's not doable without a computer though. Oct 23 18:35:16 andyross, "connectbot" Oct 23 18:35:20 ITechJunkie: Did you mean on the device, or with a computer attached? Oct 23 18:35:27 romainguy_: I grabbed your flickr app, but I'm not sure I grok it Oct 23 18:35:36 adb shell? Oct 23 18:35:42 kslater: how so? Oct 23 18:35:44 ttuttle, on the device Oct 23 18:35:46 or was it more just test bed for ui effects? Oct 23 18:35:50 ITechJunkie: Yeah, adb shell won't do that. Oct 23 18:35:59 umdk1d3: dude...use a wakelock.... Oct 23 18:36:01 ttuttle, bummer Oct 23 18:36:05 kslater: it's a very simple viewer and a sample for UI code and visual effects :)) Oct 23 18:36:10 ITechJunkie: adb is a tool that comes with the SDK. "adb shell" opens a shell on the device, but you use the computer to access it. Oct 23 18:36:47 adb shell works on the device, too Oct 23 18:36:49 iirc Oct 23 18:36:54 unless I'm mistaken : ( Oct 23 18:36:59 it does Oct 23 18:37:05 How do you launch it? Oct 23 18:37:08 but it does noithing useful Oct 23 18:37:08 works on the device? Oct 23 18:37:10 uh Oct 23 18:37:14 I mean, it works on a device, but you can't type into the shell on the device. Oct 23 18:37:15 "adb shell" Oct 23 18:37:20 oh Oct 23 18:37:22 I meant device vs. PC, not device vs. emulator. Oct 23 18:37:24 you mean a program to load the shell Oct 23 18:37:27 on the device itself Oct 23 18:37:32 yeah, I dunno about that one Oct 23 18:37:41 I'm sure one is coming, I thought I heard someone making a project like that Oct 23 18:37:58 wow. so the j2me gmail app can do stuff that teh huge googlephone can't (like 2 gmail accounts) :( http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/OfficialGoogleMobileBlog/~3/429810590/introducing-gmail-for-mobile-20.html Oct 23 18:38:13 Meh. Oct 23 18:38:38 Disconnect: but the offline support is very limited Oct 23 18:38:55 thats all well and good, but the multiple account thing is huge Oct 23 18:39:18 I'm sure someone will mod the program to where you can do that soon. Oct 23 18:39:28 they cant Oct 23 18:39:33 its not open Oct 23 18:40:09 ITechJunkie: it's no trivial matter Oct 23 18:40:11 ask Cedric2 :) Oct 23 18:40:13 and istr it uses the 'master' google account info. so even if you convinced it to install under a diff't name it would still pull auth from teh same place :( Oct 23 18:40:41 ah Oct 23 18:41:59 well. being the optimistic person I am. I'm still not gonna lose hope that someone can change something, whether it be in android's source or whatever, that will fix that problem. Oct 23 18:42:21 ITechJunkie: THERE IS NO HOPE Oct 23 18:42:23 ITechJunkie: :-P Oct 23 18:42:28 Disconnect: it's easier for the JavaME app Oct 23 18:42:35 since having multiple accounts only impacts that app Oct 23 18:42:43 having multiple accounts on the G1 impacts the entire stack Oct 23 18:43:21 having multiple -master- accounts impacts the entire stack. multiple accounts in general is no worse than the current setup, where gmail uses 1 account for mail/cal/contacts/etc and email uses ohters for just mail, which may or may not be gmail accounts Oct 23 18:43:33 Think about it for a second, Disconnect Oct 23 18:43:44 if you can have multiple accounts just in Gmail, people will start wondering what it means to calendar Oct 23 18:43:45 and talk Oct 23 18:43:46 etc... Oct 23 18:43:55 hey, has ConnectBot made it up onto the app Market? Oct 23 18:43:58 How much power does the public have over making changes to android itself? How hard would it be to actually make changes to the stack? Oct 23 18:44:11 Cedric2: not if you have one master account like hes saying. Oct 23 18:44:11 well, android just got open sourced Oct 23 18:44:14 kslater, I don't think so Oct 23 18:44:15 ITechJunkie: its very easy. its running the changes thats hard. Oct 23 18:44:16 ITechJunkie: suffice to say it's not trivial :) Oct 23 18:44:23 it doesn't compile to a version that will run on the G1 yet Oct 23 18:44:26 You guys crack me up Oct 23 18:44:30 but that will be fixed iirc shortly Oct 23 18:44:45 yeah, just checked Oct 23 18:44:58 vol, I'm using it on my G1 already Oct 23 18:45:00 hey, i just had a fun thought.... Oct 23 18:45:03 orly? Oct 23 18:45:09 sir yes sir Oct 23 18:45:13 nice Oct 23 18:45:17 connectbot-100.apk Oct 23 18:45:23 can we post modified apps to the market? Oct 23 18:45:38 modified stock apps? doubtful Oct 23 18:45:45 as in, modify one of the base apps like email Oct 23 18:45:47 jasta: as long as it doesn't violate the developer agreement? Oct 23 18:46:02 i haven't read through it yet, so ionno.... Oct 23 18:46:07 * Disconnect suspects it'll run aground of copyright before it gets posted. iceweasel-style. Oct 23 18:46:08 well it might. whats the agreement? Oct 23 18:46:21 ionno. Oct 23 18:46:36 Maybe this? Oct 23 18:46:37 how can i check to see if a particular service (foo) is running? Oct 23 18:46:37 http://code.google.com/android/download.html Oct 23 18:46:50 Disconnect: (IANAL) sure; note that the vast majority of the open-source stuff is Apache 2-licensed Oct 23 18:47:09 jasta: im talking about the agreement that google has the "kill-switch" for. Oct 23 18:47:18 i know Oct 23 18:47:20 procedurally Oct 23 18:47:26 Dougie187: Disconnect : you modify the stock apps Oct 23 18:47:29 we welcome patches Oct 23 18:47:39 gdsx: so is firefox. its still gotta be called 'iceweasel' and such if you make changes - nothing to do with the source license, everything to do with the copyright on images/icons/text/etc. Oct 23 18:47:46 im modifying email as we speak...would be cool if i could upload to market Oct 23 18:47:54 jasta: you can't Oct 23 18:48:02 just patch it Oct 23 18:48:03 Disconnect: what graphics are there in the stock apps? Oct 23 18:48:04 jasta: because the package name will be the same as the installed app Oct 23 18:48:14 jasta: so you will get a conflict at install time Oct 23 18:48:15 jasta: plus you have to pay $25 Oct 23 18:48:19 jasta: what are you changing in the email app? Oct 23 18:48:22 (and the signing key will be different) Oct 23 18:48:26 well not if i just pp during build Oct 23 18:48:35 gdsx: dozens of icons for one Oct 23 18:48:52 @Disconnect: You may modify the source Oct 23 18:49:00 zhobbs: right now, imap idle Oct 23 18:49:05 without having to rename it to iceweasel Oct 23 18:49:16 daniell: you can't distribute it without renaming it Oct 23 18:49:20 Disconnect: true, I guess, though they're used infrequently Oct 23 18:49:30 jasta: nice, I think I'll need to set that up on my IMAP server Oct 23 18:49:40 unlikely Oct 23 18:49:45 Disconnect: btw, doesn't firefox use the MPL? Oct 23 18:49:51 all major imap server vendors support it Oct 23 18:50:16 by default Oct 23 18:50:25 so does ubuntu Oct 23 18:50:26 jasta: awesome Oct 23 18:50:35 I'm using dovecot Oct 23 18:51:13 jasta: make that feature a setting btw :) Oct 23 18:51:17 * Disconnect doesn't get why so many 'mobile' email implementations skip imap idle Oct 23 18:51:42 its bad with things like seven beta (server-side push) but it just wastes effort on their servers. its terrible for things like cellphones.. Oct 23 18:52:24 Are boot times on an actual device faster than in the emulator? Oct 23 18:52:28 hi guys what's up? Oct 23 18:52:38 :) what's up Oct 23 18:52:39 @RyeBrye: yes Oct 23 18:52:41 RyeBrye: depends on what machine hosts the emulator Oct 23 18:52:44 Probably because it's not in the IMAP RFC itself. IMAP has a lot of design-by-committee in it, and a lot of the important parts are technically peripheral. Oct 23 18:53:02 I'm on a Core2Duo at 2.33 Ghz Oct 23 18:53:39 Boot time seems to be about the same as emulator for me Oct 23 18:53:56 To be fair: the G1 doesn't boot terribly fast. Felt like something like 45-60 seconds to me, although I didn't time it. My old A780 (linux phone, 2.4.something kernel and Qt-based UI) boots in about 15. Oct 23 18:54:04 UGH Oct 23 18:54:20 RyeBrye: does it matter that much? how often are you going to be powering down your phone and powering it back up? Oct 23 18:54:37 You'd be surprised Oct 23 18:54:38 I haven't had to reboot it since I got it Tuesday (the G1) Oct 23 18:54:39 androoid: it can greatly vary from boot to boot Oct 23 18:54:49 andyross: it can greatly vary from boot to boot Oct 23 18:54:56 Whenever you change the SIM or the battery. For some people, that's not uncommon. But yes, for typical usage boot time is not what you want to optimize first. Oct 23 18:55:00 andyross: its as much of an 'official' rfc as most everything else is. and older than a lot of stuff (1997 according to the header) Oct 23 18:55:01 andyross: on the first boot, the system does tons of stuff Oct 23 18:55:24 eburnette: how's the book going? Oct 23 18:55:30 great Oct 23 18:55:49 if by staying up till 4am doing final edits you mean great :) Oct 23 18:55:58 I know what it's like :) Oct 23 18:55:58 hm, i can't figure out where to copy pictures to make them show up in the Pictures app Oct 23 18:56:07 Ramblurr: anywhere on the sdcard Oct 23 18:56:33 romainguy__, have the developers considered an android level sleep concept that would shutoff any multimedia after a period of time so that it doesn't kill the battery? That way each app wouldn't have to implement the sleep functionality and there would be one central place to set the sleep timer. Oct 23 18:56:34 Q: has anybody done a file explorer that runs on device yet? Oct 23 18:56:43 eburnette: finsihing it now :) Oct 23 18:56:50 updating from another version of the sdk Oct 23 18:56:51 romainguy__: sure, it'll be a part of the "how often to check" setting Oct 23 18:57:07 eburnette: it's pretty much useless since an app can read only its own data directory and that's all Oct 23 18:57:10 jasta: ok cool Oct 23 18:57:13 Disconnect: I know, that was kind of my point. There's nowhere to look up what "IMAP" means. You need to know the way the standard grew and how it's used in the market to write a good implementation. It's big and complicated. Oct 23 18:57:38 romainguy__: I thought that you were allowed to read outside of that directory if you were given permissions. Oct 23 18:57:40 andyross: ahh. but if you don't know imap idle is a Good Thing, maybe you shouldn't be speccing out an email client :) Oct 23 18:58:08 vol: you can read the sdcard but that's about it Oct 23 18:58:14 Ramblurr, they'll show up after you disconnect your device from the computer or you disable the storage option in the settings Oct 23 18:58:24 Disconnect: i suspect they didnt implement IMAP IDLE on purpose. if google didnt have Gmail, their Email client would have supported IMAP IDLE. Oct 23 18:58:26 Isn't the discussion here that the builtin Android client does not support idle, though? I agree, that it'd be nice to have experts do everything right the first time. But in the real world, it sometimes helps to have sane standards to help the novices along. Oct 23 18:58:44 jasta: I think it's more about time than anything else Oct 23 18:59:03 ITechJunkie: ah yea, i had to d/c the device first Oct 23 18:59:07 jasta: it has nothing to do with Gmail being there or not Oct 23 18:59:20 Ramblurr: when the sdcard is mounted on your computer, applications don't have access to it Oct 23 18:59:32 makes sense Oct 23 18:59:44 Not sure how much time it would take to implement -- it's not a completely separate feature, just a different code path for receiving a message on a socket you're already listening on. I'm sorta with Disconnect that this is something you really want to get right the first time. Oct 23 18:59:48 romainguy__: well, fair enough, but had they not spent so much time on Gmail, they would've had time for one of the most obvious features for a mobile IMAP client :) Oct 23 19:00:06 this argument has lots of facets, no point having it :) Oct 23 19:00:08 http://www.imap.org/biblio.html is in fact a long, ugly mess. but.... (fwiw it looks like apple did it right in their mobile imap, with idle and such done out of the box) Oct 23 19:00:24 but then again, they did that in mail too (recently? don't recall) so it was already on the radar -soemwhere- internall Oct 23 19:00:25 y Oct 23 19:00:49 What's the break key in the terminal emulator on the emulator? Oct 23 19:00:53 jasta: but that's totally different teams, so what you're saying is meaningless :) Oct 23 19:01:34 Disconnect: Apple's Mail app drives me nuts, it updates the server very infrequently Oct 23 19:01:38 it's freaking annoying Oct 23 19:01:51 romainguy__ still using an iPhone? Oct 23 19:02:02 no Oct 23 19:02:07 romainguy__: well, IMAP IDLE doesn't "update frequently". it's just like how Gmail works. Oct 23 19:02:08 yah but at least it updates - fwiw all the messages i deleted last night on my phone were just marked read this morning when i got to work (sigh) Oct 23 19:02:08 it's gathering dust on my desk Oct 23 19:02:10 done already? Oct 23 19:02:19 nm. I found it Oct 23 19:03:04 imap idle isn't for updating the server, its for notifying the client. i think he was talking about infrequently sending local changes to the server. Oct 23 19:03:36 Q: My sound example isn't working right, can somebody help? I thought it was just an emulator problem, but no. See http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=869 . Oct 23 19:03:40 Disconnect: correct Oct 23 19:03:52 oh, sorry, i was popping in and out of the conversation Oct 23 19:04:02 so, when creating a contentprovider, I don't understand how I implement the openInputStream which the content resolver calls... Oct 23 19:04:13 herriojr: you implement openFile() Oct 23 19:04:21 openInputStream/openOutputStream Oct 23 19:04:27 ok Oct 23 19:04:29 now that android is open source, you'll have plenty of examples ;) Oct 23 19:04:46 oh yeah, I forgot to download and look at that Oct 23 19:04:50 @jasta if you can get the source Oct 23 19:04:54 I'll look at the phonebook implementation Oct 23 19:05:39 eburnette: you can now :) Oct 23 19:05:57 eburnette: if? Oct 23 19:06:39 @michael can't get it if you have Windows Oct 23 19:07:02 well what would you do with it on windows anyway? you can't double-click it :) Oct 23 19:07:04 I'm restaging an ubuntu machine now so I can look at it Oct 23 19:07:05 * jasta hides Oct 23 19:07:08 eburnette: git and repo don't work in Cygwin?? Oct 23 19:07:15 eburnette: you could still browse it from the web interface, even if you can't download the whole thing Oct 23 19:07:24 @enf one file at a time, eek Oct 23 19:07:45 ok, good point Oct 23 19:08:13 eburnette: have you tried in Cygwin? Oct 23 19:08:19 romainguy_ or a vm. Oct 23 19:08:21 @romainguy might work under cygwin, haven't tried Oct 23 19:08:32 eburnette: here you go :) Oct 23 19:08:44 should work on cygwin, my cube mate managed to get it. need to have cygwin in binary mode though Oct 23 19:10:14 I started to try on msys, then ran into python requirement, figured it'd be less hassle to just find an ubuntu machine Oct 23 19:10:57 no one has put up a tarball of the source yet? would probably be convenient for people who just want to peek around in it Oct 23 19:11:26 it's official now, android rocks Oct 23 19:11:36 tmccrary: i'm loving it so far Oct 23 19:11:45 had it just a bit over a day Oct 23 19:11:50 me too, very nice. I just got mine 2 hours ago Oct 23 19:11:59 I prefer it to the iphone immensely Oct 23 19:12:01 want to add FLAC support to the media player and get a working irc client going, though Oct 23 19:12:18 i'm having to transcode my tunes into ogg to play here Oct 23 19:12:25 check this out: I'm installing the android source on this machine Eric built: http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/03/15/android-construction/ Oct 23 19:12:43 Death_Syn: what's the FLAC decode CPU cost? expensive? Oct 23 19:13:14 gdsx: my treo 600 could do it, barely. the 700p doesn't have trouble doing it, and palm os doesn't even multitask well Oct 23 19:14:23 is there a openstreetmap based application already? Oct 23 19:14:55 Has anyone found a B&M store that sells 3.5mm headphone->extusb adapters? Oct 23 19:15:06 Death_Syn: you may be interested in my project, which will automatically transcode FLAC... Oct 23 19:15:10 Death_Syn: http://five.googlecode.com Oct 23 19:15:45 CompBrain: Ordered one from g1portal.com, but no, no physical source that I'm aware of. Oct 23 19:16:19 What was htc thinking when they designed that headset? Oct 23 19:16:29 You'd think people would stock them, since other devices use that connector too. Oct 23 19:16:33 CompBrain: the local mall should have one. Oct 23 19:16:58 B&M will be at a premium regardless. Mall, Radioshack, Fry's / Microcenter, etc. Oct 23 19:17:01 eburnette: My thought too. Not pleasant at all. The huge brick at the chin is just ... yuck. Oct 23 19:17:05 unix_lappy: T-Mo doesn't seem to list them as accessories for any of their devices Oct 23 19:17:12 Ratshack doesn't list it online Oct 23 19:17:21 CompBrain: they are standard HTC mini-usb to 3.5 converters. Oct 23 19:17:40 CompBrain: some/many at&t stores carry them. Oct 23 19:18:01 I don't mind the design of the G1...not elegant (at all), but seems functional Oct 23 19:18:05 unix_lappy: Yeah, I was just having issues finding them online -- not indexed as extusb perhaps? Oct 23 19:19:28 The phone is fine. The keyboard is really nice. A lot of the peripheral details are pretty iffy. The covers for the extusb and sd card seem like they're going to snap off within a month. As mentioned, the headset is just plain awful. And the sd card itself is frustratingly hard to get out without a pen or other tool. Oct 23 19:19:43 CompBrain: well i said mini-usb, they arent really mini-usb in the sense that they arent usb-a Oct 23 19:20:28 andyross: ohh, the headphones? those are really bad Oct 23 19:20:37 Wonder if this works: http://www.g1depot.com/htc-3-in-1-usb-adapter/11A176A3571.htm "This all-in-one adapter allows you to connect a 3.5mm headphone, a HTC EMU headset and a sync and charge cable. Sync data, charge and use a headset all at the same time!" Oct 23 19:20:44 I had to look this up after getting confused when the power adapter didn't seem to fit the port: the name of the port is "extusb", and it's reasonably standard on HTC phones. Oct 23 19:20:52 andyross: they are really testing my will with this device. I know I SHOULDN'T just go and get an iPhone, but the G1 as a device makes it really tempting. Oct 23 19:20:54 unix_lappy: Yeah. I tried "(htc|extusb) adapter" with no results Oct 23 19:20:54 eburnette: it does, I have one Oct 23 19:20:55 eburnette: people at the office use similar splitters Oct 23 19:21:19 andyross: I've been using my usb cover for 2 months, probably opening it and closing it more than a normal user would, and it's been fine Oct 23 19:22:07 To be truthful, that's the stuff Apple is always going to do better than other vendors. The iPhone would never have shipped with that headset, or those snap-off parts. I'm sure they're fine under typical usage, but all it takes is for one to get hooked up on a keychain or whatever and it's gone. Oct 23 19:22:47 * ttuttle has already broken his earphones' plug. Oct 23 19:22:49 http://cnn.cn/shop/audio-adapter-extusb-with-handy-strap-p-2104.html - extusb to 3.5mm Oct 23 19:22:55 jasta: ooh, thanks Oct 23 19:23:04 andyross: apple makes great hardware Oct 23 19:23:04 andyross: there's a big advantage to using a standard connector, though Oct 23 19:23:24 eburnette: i found some good stuff on buy.com to adapt to extusb Oct 23 19:23:33 (I mean, apple gets away with nonstandard connectors because they sell such high volume) Oct 23 19:23:34 Standard in the way that USB and 3.5mm audio ... isn't? :) Oct 23 19:23:48 andyross: I'm talking about USB Oct 23 19:23:50 Google, while I am *logged out*: "Customized for Pittsburgh metro area, US. More details" Oct 23 19:24:05 Wow, that's creepy. Oct 23 19:24:19 andyross: you can use any old USB cable to connect to the handset; it's just that the functionality is overloaded if you have the special cable Oct 23 19:24:32 andyross: which is a creative way to go about things, IMO Oct 23 19:24:49 I haven't gotten a chance to use the headset that comes with the Android. Is it decent? Oct 23 19:24:56 Oh, you mean that the iPhone doesn't have an actual USB plug. Yes, I agree. The extusb thing isn't much of a complaint. Oct 23 19:24:57 yeah, good enough Oct 23 19:24:57 *with the G1 Oct 23 19:25:07 the headset isn't special but it's good enough Oct 23 19:25:32 vol, decent sound quality/ Oct 23 19:25:34 ITechJunkie: I use it and it's decent. I prefer real headphones to earbuds any day, though Oct 23 19:25:43 I guess? I'm not really an audiophile Oct 23 19:25:43 Anybody know if the G1 extusb supports video out? (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2610305&postcount=19) Oct 23 19:25:50 I could understand the person on the other end at any rate Oct 23 19:25:53 The lack of an actual plug for audio, though, is I think more of a disadvantage. Everyone has favorite headphones, it's a hugely personal decision. None of those headphones work on the G1 without tracking down an obscure adapter. Oct 23 19:25:54 FYI: Android Market vs. iPhone App Store: The First 24 Hours: http://tinyurl.com/5hq6da Oct 23 19:25:59 gdsx, agreed Oct 23 19:26:09 andyross: Oh boy, yet more fucking holes and peripherals Oct 23 19:26:20 Let me track down power adapter #3724b Oct 23 19:26:28 oops, lost it when I moved, guess I can't use this. Oct 23 19:26:39 hi Oct 23 19:26:52 i already compile android Oct 23 19:26:59 vol: That's why you can charge the G1 with any miniUSB cable or charger! Oct 23 19:27:01 All of which might have been OK if HC had shipped a top-shelf headset instead of the clunker that was in the box. It's all about overall experience. A user unboxing this thing and intending to use it as an audio player is going to be really disappointed vs. even midrange stuff like the ROKR. Oct 23 19:27:05 now there is some easy command to run the emulator? Oct 23 19:27:16 solca: "emulator". It's in tools. Oct 23 19:27:18 michaelnovakjr: you still there? Oct 23 19:27:21 yea Oct 23 19:27:26 andyross: yeah, not having to use an adapter would be nice. Oct 23 19:28:04 andyross: honestly, I don't even know people who use headsets. Oct 23 19:28:14 When compared with the iPhone "feel" as an audio player, it's really not even close. And a lot of the details are really simple things like choice of plugs and headset OEMs. Oct 23 19:28:18 everyone I know either has a bluetooth headset or just goes without Oct 23 19:28:18 vol: I did, until it broke. It was nice. Oct 23 19:28:32 ttuttle, well, not any miniUSB charger will work well, you need one with right output Oct 23 19:28:49 ttuttle: can't find it Oct 23 19:28:50 jeld: I think the point is that they all work, however Oct 23 19:28:54 solca: hmm Oct 23 19:28:56 ttuttle, and there are some rumors that not every miniUSB cable works Oct 23 19:29:05 jeld: USB provides a minimum of 500ma, and the phone will charge off of that. Oct 23 19:29:16 jeld: uhh... that rumor is (almost definitely) false Oct 23 19:29:18 jeld: all the USB cables I've used so far (about 10 different) worked Oct 23 19:29:33 jeld: the handset is a USB device just like a digital camera is a USB device Oct 23 19:29:35 thats good, I used 2 different ones with no problem Oct 23 19:29:37 jeld: Certainly any y cable will work. Oct 23 19:29:46 jeld: A significantly underpowered charger may not. Oct 23 19:29:53 FWIW, the charging hardware seems really robust to me. I've spent the last three years with an A780 that, when dead, can't charge of an actual USB port and needs to be plugged into the wall. Oct 23 19:30:04 andyross: Wow, that's dumb. Oct 23 19:30:38 No doubt it's because the bootstrap charger tries to draw more current than the USB spec allows, or somesuch. Once the software-controlled charger is live, it's fine. Oct 23 19:33:43 ttuttle, I cannot seem to locate the link, but I read yesterday, that some of the common miniUSB chargers ouput something like 50% of what G1 charger does Oct 23 19:34:02 jeld: That's okay. Oct 23 19:34:13 jeld: The G1 charger probably outputs more than is required so the phone can charge faster. Oct 23 19:34:19 ttuttle, I am not sure I will ever use the charger anyway Oct 23 19:34:41 jeld: I only use it at home. I just keep the miniUSB cable with me and plug the phone into my computer when I'm using the computer. Oct 23 19:35:01 ttuttle, charger output supposed to play a big role in battery lifetime Oct 23 19:35:12 jeld: What do you mean? Oct 23 19:35:34 jeld: If anything, I would assume charging more slowly would be gentler on the battery. Oct 23 19:35:44 ttuttle, supposedly charging the battery with wrong output (even if it is less then spec) will reduce battery life Oct 23 19:36:00 jeld: Where did you hear this? Oct 23 19:36:21 A lot of the "battery lifetime" vooodoo is just that. LiON cells don't have the kind of weird chemistry that people remember from the days of NiCd or NiMH. The only thing that's known to reduce your battery's lifetime is using it. Oct 23 19:36:40 ttuttle: i find it: ./host/linux-x86/bin/emulator and runs fine, thx! Oct 23 19:36:49 solca: Cool! Oct 23 19:36:51 i'm using a wall charger from a HTC PPC6800 on my g1 and it works fine Oct 23 19:36:57 haven't tried usb charge from pc yet Oct 23 19:36:59 need to do that Oct 23 19:37:07 wow. 5 hour delay in outgoing gmail from my phone. thats -nice-. Oct 23 19:37:10 Death_Syn: It should work, albeit more slowly. Oct 23 19:37:13 Disconnect: nice Oct 23 19:37:25 I haven't even tried the wall charger yet, just been using PC USB connection Oct 23 19:37:26 ttuttle: nothing new to me. treos do the same thing Oct 23 19:37:27 and no, its not on my end :) Oct 23 19:37:32 andyross - LiONs reduce battery lifetime gradually over time -starting the day they are manufactured and regardless of if they are used or not Oct 23 19:37:46 BBs are able to turn themselves up Oct 23 19:37:47 (I mean capacity, not lifetime) Oct 23 19:37:52 or ask the computer to do so Oct 23 19:38:16 Not sure I've read that one, but I'm not a battery chemist. Lithium cells *do* leak charge more rapidly when stored relative to other technologies. Are you sure that's not what you're thinking of? Oct 23 19:38:16 http://pastebin.com/m7e9c2863 Oct 23 19:38:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery#Disadvantages_of_traditional_Li-ion_technology Oct 23 19:38:52 wonder what spare batteries are going to cost when the time comes Oct 23 19:39:09 andyross: first sentence under disadvantages: "A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in capacity. " Oct 23 19:39:30 So... If you are buying a new battery for your cell phone - always check the datestamp on it.... Oct 23 19:41:00 but you are right about the lack of memory thing - they don't have a memory effect and don't require you to use any kind of strange battery-life voodoo where you alter your normal charging behavior to try to benefit the life of the battery Oct 23 19:41:15 unless of course you are normally charging your battery in an oven or something Oct 23 19:42:24 late to the party, but they do have - if not memory - 'bad training' wherein the charging circuit can be convinced the capacity is much lower than it really is Oct 23 19:42:57 RyeBrye: amusingly, I actually followed the reference for that toe the buchmann.ca site. The only support I can find for that statement is one throwaway sentence in an unrelated paragraph: "A typical life of a lithium-ion is 300-500 discharge/charge cycles or about three years from time of manufacturing." I'm not saying it's wrong, exactly, just maybe over-interpreted by the wiki author. Oct 23 19:44:41 speaking of which, what's the word on the battery life? Is the OTA update going to do anything about that? Oct 23 19:44:49 hi, does anyone know if the natural language parsing engine google calendar uses was built in-house? Oct 23 19:45:11 which kernel version is the latest release of android built on? Oct 23 19:45:47 G1 /proc/version reports: Linux version 2.6.25-01828-g18ac882 (android-build@apa27.mtv.corp.google.com) (gcc version 4.2.1) #1 PREEMPT Thu Sep 11 23:18:27 PDT 2008 Oct 23 19:45:57 ty Oct 23 19:46:32 so u got the G1 phone? how is it? Oct 23 19:46:48 cyrus__: It is the best phone ever. <-- Probably not true. Oct 23 19:46:52 cyrus__: It is awesome though. Oct 23 19:47:04 i'm going to wait for the htc touch Oct 23 19:47:19 cool Oct 23 19:47:28 i want to port android over to the n810 Oct 23 19:47:46 cyrus__: let us know when you get it to work. Oct 23 19:47:55 cyrus__: im sure a bunch of people want it. Oct 23 19:48:10 damn Oct 23 19:48:12 I want one:-) Oct 23 19:48:22 I really want to see how Hecl runs on a real one Oct 23 19:48:28 davidw: whats that? and n810 with android? or a g1? Oct 23 19:48:36 an* Oct 23 19:48:37 Any idea what next (non-bugfix) version of SDK will be called and when it will be out? Oct 23 19:48:38 a real phone Oct 23 19:48:50 why not go get one? Oct 23 19:48:59 does anything need to be done to trigger grabbing the 1.1 update? Oct 23 19:49:06 eburnette: Sdk 1.1? Oct 23 19:49:07 Huh, and while I'm in /proc on the device. Specs floating around on the web say the box has 192M of DRAM, yet I see only 101M available. Where's the rest? Much too big for a framebuffer. Flash cache or something? Or are the public specs wrong? Oct 23 19:49:21 * davidw is on 2.1 already Oct 23 19:49:38 davidw: you're a punk. Oct 23 19:49:48 andyross: ask swetland :) Oct 23 19:50:45 andyross: probably for the baseband Oct 23 19:50:57 Dougie187: What's the time frame for sdk 1.1, any guesses? Oct 23 19:51:06 ralpht: a large chunk of RAM is allocated to the baseband Oct 23 19:51:13 They're on the same memory bus? I guess I always thought that the other cores had their own memory. Oct 23 19:51:21 eburnette: some time before november 2009. Oct 23 19:51:34 Dougie187: :)) Oct 23 19:51:38 ? Oct 23 19:51:40 91M is pretty beefy for something that's basically just a router. :) Oct 23 19:51:41 um, thanks Oct 23 19:51:45 eburnette: google likes to keep you guessing Oct 23 19:52:42 Am I alone in thinking the G1 has far too little internal flash for applications? Oct 23 19:53:02 eburnette: probably? Oct 23 19:53:31 Dougie187: really? I ran out the first day Oct 23 19:53:40 i don't know. Oct 23 19:53:54 i don't even have a g1 Oct 23 19:54:08 so <--- is probably not the right person to be answering your questions. Oct 23 19:54:09 eburnette: no Oct 23 19:55:06 Hrm, indeed. The .apk files all seem to live in /system/app, whose filesystem has only 5M available on my phone. Is there an alternative installation location? Oct 23 19:55:33 andyross: /system/app is the firmware, it's not for external apps Oct 23 19:55:36 Or, no, that's an RO filesystem. Must be somewhere under /data Oct 23 19:55:40 apps you install from Market or with adb go in /data Oct 23 19:55:46 /data/app Oct 23 19:55:49 eburnette, andyross: short answer, it's being worked on Oct 23 19:55:52 Which is --x to the shell user, sadly :( Oct 23 19:56:10 anyone else have a 48 hour wait before their web will work over 3g? Oct 23 19:56:12 gdsx: worked on how? bootstrap from sd card perhaps? Oct 23 19:56:13 who wants a RBOC from woot?! Oct 23 19:56:16 32% left. Oct 23 19:56:24 andyross: you don't need +r to access stuff under the directory Oct 23 19:56:34 andyross: that's why you've got +x :o) Oct 23 19:56:41 the cust. svc rep said my web won't work because it can be 48 hours before the account is fully activated Oct 23 19:56:45 (gmail works.) Oct 23 19:56:45 I do to list it, though. Can't discover what I can't see. Oct 23 19:56:46 eburnette: don't know, and probably couldn't go into it anyway Oct 23 19:57:05 andyross: well, yeah. that's sort of the point, though :o) Oct 23 19:57:25 I know, which is sad. Someone will crack it though, I have faith. Oct 23 19:58:43 So is the statement that T-mobile worked with Google to make sure that the G1 "wouldn't be able to do VOIP" a lie? Oct 23 19:59:20 Dougie187: you have to shout out earlier Oct 23 19:59:30 yeah. its all gone now. Oct 23 19:59:37 their servers already crashed as well. Oct 23 19:59:51 did you get anything? Oct 23 20:00:45 nope.. Oct 23 20:00:47 ' When I talked to Cole Brodman, the CTO of T-Mobile, after the event about what would stop something like Skype from designing a program that could run on the phone, negating the need for a massive voice plan, he said he had "worked with Google" to make sure Android couldn't run VOIP. ' - what kind of work would this involve? Oct 23 20:00:50 i clicked buy and the site broke. Oct 23 20:00:53 then it came back sold out. Oct 23 20:00:54 :( Oct 23 20:02:17 RyeBrye - what does that make iSkoot? Oct 23 20:03:06 Yeah, I'm aware of iSkoot - I'm just baffled by WTF the CTO of T-mobile could be referring ti Oct 23 20:03:07 err ot Oct 23 20:03:12 err TO Oct 23 20:03:40 I guess I haven't actually used it yet so maybe it doesn't work. ;-) Oct 23 20:03:43 is anyone else having severe wifi problems? pondering a reset to factory :( Oct 23 20:03:57 Disconnect: what sort of problems? Oct 23 20:04:12 won't stay hooked up for more than 10-15 seconds Oct 23 20:04:13 like wifi hotspot that should show up don't? Oct 23 20:04:17 no exaggeration :( Oct 23 20:04:33 been getting progressively worse, pondering a reset-to-factory and more careful control over which apps i use Oct 23 20:04:57 did you install the T-Mobile Hotspot app? Oct 23 20:05:14 Disconnect, I ran into that problem with 2 networks within range that were both setup. If this is the case with you try 'forgetting' one of the networks Oct 23 20:05:17 I have been seeing some funkiness with wifi. there's a t-mo hotspot just out of range, kept picking that rather than my own local one Oct 23 20:05:41 the T-Mobile Hotspot app will try to always connect to a tmobile spot if there's one nearby Oct 23 20:05:45 no matter what the signal strength is Oct 23 20:05:46 It seems to have some issues with just picking one and sticking with it, especially the 'strong' one Oct 23 20:05:51 couldn't make the t-mo hotspot stop from connecting. so I did what romainguy_ suggested and nuke t-mo connect Oct 23 20:05:54 romainguy_: i did, but then i removed it Oct 23 20:06:04 hmm, there's an iskoot for skype app in the android market Oct 23 20:06:37 seems to be better now that I dumped that app Disconnect. FWIW Oct 23 20:06:47 i forgot to dump the AP it added. Oct 23 20:07:22 is it actually needed to connect to t-mo hotspots? Oct 23 20:07:31 hope not :) Oct 23 20:07:39 but i can always install over edge, use tmob, then remove. Oct 23 20:07:59 me too. I'll ping my bud that's on the way up to Canada since he was going to be making use of that quite a bit Oct 23 20:08:12 awesome btw, that seems to have ixed it (so far) Oct 23 20:08:22 Disconnect: check this out http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/introducing-gmail-for-mobile-20.html Oct 23 20:08:45 Dougie187: posted that earlier, thats why i wanted a primary and secondary/email-only option in the g1 Oct 23 20:08:48 oh ok Oct 23 20:08:54 since a 5 year old blackberry can do it :) Oct 23 20:08:55 i just got to it in my reader. Oct 23 20:09:08 brb Oct 23 20:10:07 Dougie187: what's the appeal of the RBOC? Oct 23 20:10:42 its Random crap. Oct 23 20:10:49 you could get awesome stuff. Oct 23 20:10:52 you could just get... well... crap Oct 23 20:10:58 could end up getting something really great though Oct 23 20:11:06 like a monitor or a tv Oct 23 20:11:28 hmmm Oct 23 20:11:28 or an ipod. Oct 23 20:11:31 anything like that. Oct 23 20:11:38 or you could get a thumb drive and 5 condoms. Oct 23 20:11:40 somebody needs to write a crap alert for android then :) Oct 23 20:11:41 whatever they have left over Oct 23 20:11:49 hehe Oct 23 20:11:55 crash the servers even faster Oct 23 20:12:16 im sure someone will write a woot notifier Oct 23 20:12:31 maybe it could auto-buy for you Oct 23 20:12:33 hi, does anyone know if the natural language parsing engine google calendar uses was built in-house? Oct 23 20:12:35 the description was especially funny. Oct 23 20:12:42 eburnette: i don't think they support google checkout Oct 23 20:13:09 if you could talk them into that then you could probably get it done pretty easy. Oct 23 20:13:12 that gmail for mobile is better than gmail on the g1 Oct 23 20:13:14 :( Oct 23 20:13:18 anyone used ZAGG on a device? thinking about buying it for my G1 Oct 23 20:13:19 languish: thats the point. Oct 23 20:13:39 * languish is sad Oct 23 20:13:50 languish: so is the rest of the world who has G1's Oct 23 20:14:06 well i can return my g1 within 30 days or some shit Oct 23 20:14:10 maybe 14 Oct 23 20:14:26 go for it, but don't be surprised to see that functionality make it to andriod Oct 23 20:14:28 google just ruined my excitement Oct 23 20:14:51 kslater, it shoulda been exclusive to android for a month or two Oct 23 20:14:54 :| Oct 23 20:15:02 languish: 14 days Oct 23 20:15:11 or at least available in android. Oct 23 20:15:15 + $10 restocking fee. Oct 23 20:15:18 that 3 Oct 23 20:15:30 what isn't available? Oct 23 20:15:32 they can restock a brick of shit Oct 23 20:15:37 gmail mobile 2.0 Oct 23 20:15:47 oh Oct 23 20:16:02 isnt there a j2me emulator? Oct 23 20:16:04 That's funny. Oct 23 20:16:07 isn't there a j2me env? Oct 23 20:16:10 gmta: unix_lappy Oct 23 20:16:12 google I lobe you, but you've made me despondant Oct 23 20:16:14 * kslater is pleased with his new Android overlord Oct 23 20:16:15 im going to install it on my Katana! Oct 23 20:16:16 lol Oct 23 20:16:43 languish: are you more sad now? Oct 23 20:16:52 i get gmail 2.0, but you don't. and i have a shitty sanyo katana. Oct 23 20:16:55 v1 Oct 23 20:16:56 i was all happy being able to show off my supuerb google integrattion to pplz without g1's Oct 23 20:17:04 but now they're gonna have bettar shitz Oct 23 20:17:04 yeah true. Oct 23 20:17:17 I doubt they will all install it right off the bat Oct 23 20:17:21 eh, id on't have multiple google accounts yet, so I'll be okay Oct 23 20:17:31 I do, but they are all forwarded to one. Oct 23 20:17:44 plz, get sailboat, i cry u a river Oct 23 20:17:59 * Death_Syn boards the failboat Oct 23 20:18:25 i'm just happy to have a mobile browser better than Blazer at this stage Oct 23 20:18:40 mobile IE and the BB browser weren't even THAT good Oct 23 20:19:14 but i havet o say Oct 23 20:19:21 yay. gmail 2.0 on my katana! Oct 23 20:19:25 the google calendar setup my wife and i have is elite Oct 23 20:19:41 Death_Syn: you do tend to have a lot of devices... Oct 23 20:19:43 Oh. iSkoot is NOT really VoIP - http://androidguys.com/?p=2316 it uses airtime minutes to call into a gateway that it then uses to VOIP out from there Oct 23 20:19:45 what a piece of shit Oct 23 20:19:53 RyeBrye, indeed Oct 23 20:20:04 RyeBrye, it saves long distance Oct 23 20:20:05 unix_lappy: eh, i"ve had a few in my current job Oct 23 20:20:12 by using minutes Oct 23 20:20:13 i got to be the early adopter of a lot of gear Oct 23 20:20:19 im out. see ya later! Oct 23 20:20:29 something wrong with that kid Oct 23 20:20:35 i always wound up going back to treos because while they can't multi-task, they were quite reliable Oct 23 20:20:37 I guess you could make the number it dials one of your fave 5's - but still... Oct 23 20:20:39 That's a bit strange Oct 23 20:20:54 RyeBrye, that's what people do Oct 23 20:21:04 Although.... now that I think about it... I should just set up my own voice dialing gateway that does the same thing Oct 23 20:21:22 yep Oct 23 20:21:36 So is non-wifi android skype possible or not? Oct 23 20:21:52 Plus I can spoof my own caller ID so my outbound calls are still free (or one of my "fives") and look like they come from my cell phone Oct 23 20:22:11 RyeBrye: that sounds like a lot of fun Oct 23 20:22:29 It's pretty trivial to do Oct 23 20:22:57 RyeBrye, How would you do that? Oct 23 20:23:28 fun with asterisk Oct 23 20:24:00 mmm, asterisk Oct 23 20:24:08 that's going to be a significant part of my next job Oct 23 20:25:00 Looks cool Oct 23 20:25:27 What kind of connection speeds would you need for that? Oct 23 20:25:45 cable modem would be fine Oct 23 20:26:33 the voip stuff uses different codecs - and you can run astserisk on pretty low-powered stuff for simple applications like this. I could run it on my router if I really wanted to Oct 23 20:26:33 i'm running a 1.5Mbs at my house I think. Just the cheap $20 cox stuff Oct 23 20:26:41 Death_Syn: expensive title early adopter is. Oct 23 20:26:54 Basically... If you can do skype out - you have proven that you can do voip over your line Oct 23 20:27:27 RyeBrye, I see. Is that different from skype to skype voip? Oct 23 20:27:44 Probably not Oct 23 20:28:03 unix_lappy: it can be. Oct 23 20:28:07 Is there any way to block sms reciving by build-in service ? Oct 23 20:28:50 what's the proper way to sync files to android? i tried mounting the drive and copying mp3s to the music folder but only one of them showed up in the playlist, the rest were magically erased when i remounted to inspect if the files were there Oct 23 20:29:10 i.e. i'm on linux, this was just a straight mount -o iocharset=utf8 /dev/sdd1 /sdd1 Oct 23 20:29:15 I wonder if DDT-WRT will include some asterisk stuff Oct 23 20:29:16 Although how cool would this setup be... - Have 4 or 5 numbers set up that you assign all your contacts to route to one of those piles - and then have them set up as your Fave 5's - they dial into your gateway which redirects them to your cell phone number using one of those 4 numbers based on a category (so you can see if it's a family member, coworker... etc. calling) and then every inbound call becomes one of your fave 5's Oct 23 20:29:18 cp -R thisdir thatdir Oct 23 20:29:40 RyeBrye: Against the rules. Oct 23 20:29:45 RyeBrye: Fave Fives must be actual people. Oct 23 20:29:49 ttuttle - ahh, I figured they'd thought of that Oct 23 20:29:52 RyeBrye: (Unfortunately.) Oct 23 20:30:05 ttuttle - so everyone setting up iSkoot as a fave 5 is violating TOS Oct 23 20:30:11 and will be easily detected Oct 23 20:30:32 anyone know Oct 23 20:30:54 I'm surprised that T-mobile doesn't allow for wifi hotspot dialing with the G1 like they do with many of their other phones Oct 23 20:31:52 RyeBrye: It's complicated. I assume it will come out in a later Android version. Oct 23 20:32:03 RyeBrye: It's basically 2x the telephony work, plus extra to integrate the two. Oct 23 20:32:06 ttuttle - although going back to that scenario - technically the fave 5 numbers could still be actual people - that all inbound calls happen to get trunked on Oct 23 20:32:30 yeah, I'm sure it'd violate TOS Oct 23 20:33:08 i could trunk my landline that way, certainly Oct 23 20:33:24 is it possible to run a server on android listening on a port waiting for lets say http packets? Oct 23 20:33:36 like jetty? Oct 23 20:35:19 well its easy to program your own minimal web-server... Oct 23 20:35:38 I've heard someone got jetty to run on android Oct 23 20:35:54 not sure if it was on an actual device or just the emulator Oct 23 20:35:57 Isn't the 1.1 release of Jetty already out? Oct 23 20:36:13 I've downloaded it onto my device but I haven't installed it yet Oct 23 20:36:28 So I don't know how functional it is Oct 23 20:36:59 but im not sure if the client-packets will be forwarded to the android-server by the provider... Oct 23 20:37:34 oinkboink, thats what i'm trying to figure out as well Oct 23 20:38:11 seems like the android server would have to use some sort of proxy to forward packets between the two. Oct 23 20:38:13 you mean OTA? Oct 23 20:38:32 I imagine your phone is behind some kind of gigantic NAT Oct 23 20:38:40 I don't know enough about Jetty either. But i don't see how it would work on say Edge Oct 23 20:38:56 just built my maiden android build.do i hv access to the uncompressed target filesystem?something that i could attach using nfs? Oct 23 20:40:33 romainguy__: is there any way to sms messages keep beeping until i read them? Oct 23 20:40:51 to have* Oct 23 20:40:53 Sundar: only if you have YAFFS built into your desktop kernel Oct 23 20:41:25 jasta: nope Oct 23 20:41:58 romainguy: hmm, by design or should i submit this as a feature request? Oct 23 20:42:16 no iea Oct 23 20:42:16 iPhone beeps i think two times Oct 23 20:42:18 idea Oct 23 20:42:22 probably by design Oct 23 20:42:26 sms messages are typically more important than my e-mails, and i like to answer them quickly. but if my phone only beeps once i'll forget them Oct 23 20:42:34 yea Oct 23 20:42:41 like maybe every 10 minutes or so remind me until i do Oct 23 20:42:43 so if someone ports Android to another device can they just slap the Market/Gmail apk's from the G1 onto the other device? Oct 23 20:42:49 well i think NAT is the problem, maybe theres no way to send data directly between two mobile phones??? Oct 23 20:43:00 oinkboink: definitely not Oct 23 20:43:15 damn ;) Oct 23 20:43:16 no carrier network i've seen will let you bind an arbitrary port on a phone and receive connections on it Oct 23 20:43:30 maybe in the future? Oct 23 20:43:37 jasta - you can do outbound though, can't you? Oct 23 20:44:05 if ssh is installed, you just need a computer you control on the outside to do allow you to set up remote port forwarding Oct 23 20:44:21 RyeBrye: yes, of course. but that was not his question. Oct 23 20:44:27 oinkboink: no, certainly not. they do this by design. Oct 23 20:44:27 you can use sockets to connect to a server on a port Oct 23 20:44:30 you'r right Oct 23 20:44:52 oinkboink: phones are both protected by NAT and intentionally firewalled to discriminate certain types of communication. Oct 23 20:45:06 so its highly unlikely a carrier will change this design in the future. Oct 23 20:46:32 well but were talking bout gsm/umts right? mphone <- wifi -> mphone will work?! Oct 23 20:46:56 oinkboink: uhm, obviously the carriers do not have any control over your wi-fi network. Oct 23 20:48:58 hmmm Oct 23 20:49:03 i can't get my head around this Oct 23 20:49:15 how would i save a thread which maintains a server connection :/ Oct 23 20:49:50 so all the blocking is done on the provider-gateway (umts<>internet) ?! the phone itself has nothing to do with that Oct 23 20:51:30 i'd like something like this for my google contacts/g1 http://www.wooters.us/minimal/woot Oct 23 20:51:32 err Oct 23 20:51:38 wrong url Oct 23 20:51:39 woot.com Oct 23 20:51:43 the current item Oct 23 20:52:06 an android co-branding for some products would make sense to me Oct 23 20:53:16 note, woot changes items, so the if this item sells out, it may bot be the same item later Oct 23 20:53:39 languish: the scanner? Oct 23 20:54:02 well, a system for scanning and importing business card contacts Oct 23 20:55:06 My Sony Ericsson P990 did OCR'ed business cards on the phone itself Oct 23 20:55:09 that type of scanner just makes it easier. but any scanner will do Oct 23 20:55:09 with amazing accuracy Oct 23 20:55:28 RyeBrye, yeah, that would work Oct 23 20:55:38 why does it take so long for g1 camera to focus on barcodes? Oct 23 20:55:39 seems like you should be able to use the camera Oct 23 20:55:51 eburnette: seems like the camera kinda sucks Oct 23 20:55:58 eburnette which barcode app are you using? Oct 23 20:56:11 shopsavvy focused on barcodes for me rather quickly Oct 23 20:56:18 Do you need the barcode app for shopsavvy to work? Oct 23 20:56:19 as long as I had the right angle and lighting Oct 23 20:56:19 the scanning part in all of them is the same though right? Oct 23 20:56:21 eburnette: it depends on the light and the distance to the barcode Oct 23 20:56:26 tmccrary: no Oct 23 20:56:27 tried shopsavvy, compareeverywhere, and the generic barcode reader one Oct 23 20:56:30 I have no trouble with scanning barcode Oct 23 20:56:37 ok cool, it seemed superfluous Oct 23 20:56:45 and stood on one foot, whistled dixie while patting my belly and rubbing my genita...head Oct 23 20:57:27 but yeah, it worked just fine, and rather quickly for me with shopsavvy Oct 23 20:57:39 afaik, they all use the same scanning engine Oct 23 20:57:42 (they might not want me endorsing them now) Oct 23 20:57:43 (ZXing) Oct 23 20:58:20 OCR'ing business cards would be a killer android app - I think that feature single-handedly sold most of the P990's that were sold Oct 23 20:58:21 woh. android dev camp... right down teh street. Oct 23 20:58:24 did not know this! Oct 23 20:58:55 and its official, removing the stupid tmob app resulted in wifi working again :) time to enter a review in appmark Oct 23 20:59:23 hey so... i'm probably the 800th person to ask these questions in the last few days... G1, unlockable? How hard? Codes easily available? Oct 23 20:59:30 Any gotchas with making it run on like, AT&T? Oct 23 20:59:54 the major gotcha being that the 3G wont work because the networks use different frequencies Oct 23 21:00:01 thoguht tiw as tri band Oct 23 21:00:05 in theory tmob unlocks phones for good customers after 90 days. in practice, they do it sooner lots of the time (esp for long-term customers). in reality, i don't think anyone has gotten their production g1 unlocked yet Oct 23 21:00:12 but i'll prolly try it this weekend just for S&G Oct 23 21:00:18 (it helps to tell them you are going overseas, etc) Oct 23 21:00:33 hola Oct 23 21:00:37 wasabi: tri-band for voice, 3g tmob-usa != 3g att-usa != 3g eu != (iirc) 3g ja Oct 23 21:00:55 oh. thought it was hsdpa now. Oct 23 21:00:59 and that that was the same thing Oct 23 21:01:01 oo new connectbot to try.. Oct 23 21:01:04 yeah, it'd be handy Oct 23 21:01:16 slashdot is running a story on how the g1 is a failure Oct 23 21:01:20 F them. Oct 23 21:01:34 the g1 is fail. android isn't Oct 23 21:01:43 >:/ @ /. Oct 23 21:01:57 there was no hype like the iphone. google did not promote it in any fashion related to their own services. Oct 23 21:01:58 how is the g1 a failure? Oct 23 21:02:06 but it's a great phone so far Oct 23 21:02:16 I dont think anyone discounts the platform. Oct 23 21:02:33 platform aside, the g1 sold out at the t-mobile store near me... Oct 23 21:02:40 no lines around the block but still Oct 23 21:02:50 is there anyway to make tabs appear at the bottom of the screen? the styleable doc is missing stuff for tabs Oct 23 21:02:59 waldo_, sorry, but when you stick a headphone jack where my hand is supposed to support itself to type, and then put a "chin" on the phone so my right thumb is uncomfortable, then have all these great camera based apps coming our way and put a crappy camera and no flash/led light... Oct 23 21:02:59 so, what are the technical specifies on this? 3G == What, umts, hsdpa? Oct 23 21:03:10 the g1 has some nice features Oct 23 21:03:28 t-mobile/google don't seem good at marketting...that press conference for the launch was embarrassing Oct 23 21:03:33 but as a total design for general audiences without android bolstering it.. it's a fil design Oct 23 21:03:34 seemed unprofessional Oct 23 21:04:27 wasabi http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html Oct 23 21:05:19 So it's quad band gsm, hspa on 1700/2100 Oct 23 21:05:25 i like the screen, I like the touch/keyboard/trackball integration, I really like the screen slide up mechanism Oct 23 21:05:27 so ... who's gonna build a hardware clone of the iPhone (plus the features it lacks) running Android? Oct 23 21:05:48 china Oct 23 21:05:53 hehe Oct 23 21:06:03 I've already seen hardware clones of iphones...not running android though Oct 23 21:06:03 * delinka signs up to import it Oct 23 21:06:06 but if this hardware had winmo/symbian..etc, it'd get horrible reviews and die Oct 23 21:06:21 that's because it would be horrible Oct 23 21:06:26 yes it would Oct 23 21:06:30 that's usually a clincher Oct 23 21:06:43 Hmm. So the HSPA frequencies are just for t-mobile. Oh well that sucks. Oct 23 21:06:46 ok, even if it had the iphone os Oct 23 21:06:51 :\ Oct 23 21:07:17 Any chance connectionbot will support port forwarding? Cuz that would be great. Oct 23 21:07:28 yeah, so far I like the G1 waaaaaaaaaay better than the iphone Oct 23 21:07:32 I see that #andriod was credited on the ircell page, anyone in here working on it? Oct 23 21:07:45 tmccrary, you know what? me too Oct 23 21:07:54 I don't like the iphone in the first place Oct 23 21:08:02 me either, huge let down Oct 23 21:08:06 apple haters Oct 23 21:08:13 antifanbois Oct 23 21:08:13 it has a lot of cool features, but apple just bungled it some how Oct 23 21:08:22 how? Oct 23 21:08:34 apple didn't bungle it, it sells like hotcakes Oct 23 21:08:44 mmm... Oct 23 21:08:45 that's the point. revenue Oct 23 21:08:48 * gdsx wants some hotcakes Oct 23 21:08:53 they can't create a device to suit everyone...but it is certainly pleasing many Oct 23 21:09:01 i love my iPhone Oct 23 21:09:02 I see this kind of stuff lots "I don't like Linux", "I hate Windows", "OS X sucks", "I'm never owning an iPod", etc ... and no one explains why Oct 23 21:09:05 none of the apps are really worthwhile, it's locked down (thus old school) like a verizon phone Oct 23 21:09:16 all the really good apps that are useful, you have to jailbreak for Oct 23 21:09:23 which is annoying as hell to have to deal with Oct 23 21:09:24 like... Oct 23 21:09:24 I can explain exactly why i don't like the iphone Oct 23 21:09:29 terminal app Oct 23 21:09:39 nes emulator Oct 23 21:09:40 i have an SSH client Oct 23 21:09:45 so tmccrary's complaints are all software-based Oct 23 21:09:52 mainly, its hardware is nice Oct 23 21:09:55 that's part of the let down Oct 23 21:09:58 tmccrary, the iphone has some decent apps Oct 23 21:10:05 If Android supported ical/itunes/Address Book syncing... that would be a good argument for current iphone users to switch.. but maybe by the time their current phones wear down that will be available. Oct 23 21:10:06 poor software on great hardware Oct 23 21:10:11 poor software? Oct 23 21:10:11 i like the polyhedral dice rolling app the iphone has Oct 23 21:10:11 wtf? Oct 23 21:10:16 :) Oct 23 21:10:19 waldo_: excellent third party opportunity :) Oct 23 21:10:21 poor software is the shit thats on my nokia Oct 23 21:10:27 or my blackberry Oct 23 21:10:38 waldo_: not to mention the current two-year contract lock-in ;-) Oct 23 21:10:39 okay, that's true. The iphone is better than those Oct 23 21:10:54 anyway, sorry, i didn't mean for this to become yet another meaningless off topic discussion of other devices Oct 23 21:10:55 but it still just doesn't live up to its potential, due to bungling Oct 23 21:10:56 delinka yeah.. Oct 23 21:10:58 there's that Oct 23 21:11:06 and to be quite honest at this stage, if i had to pick between android and iphone i'd be picking iphone Oct 23 21:11:06 plyhedral dice rolling? wtf ... Oct 23 21:11:10 let's praise or bitch about the g1 Oct 23 21:11:15 duey-- it's very early still Oct 23 21:11:22 I hate AT&T which is why I don't have one. Oct 23 21:11:23 delinka, "role playing dice" Oct 23 21:11:30 waldo_, thats why i said "at this stage" :) Oct 23 21:11:31 duey, have you had both? Oct 23 21:11:39 I mean actually had one Oct 23 21:11:42 languish: what? just so I don't have to carry dice around in my pocket? Oct 23 21:11:42 duey I think android holds more potential... Oct 23 21:11:46 * languish forgets he shouldn't use big words Oct 23 21:11:47 waldo_, probably Oct 23 21:11:55 tmccrary, I haven't used android on a device Oct 23 21:11:58 duey *IF* developers start to use it Oct 23 21:12:03 ok yeah, you don't know what you're talking about Oct 23 21:12:04 :) Oct 23 21:12:20 delinka, no.. so when the rules of the game get out of hand and require 20 varied dice rolls, you don't make the group wait for you to sit there and do it Oct 23 21:12:39 tmccrary, I am well aware it is better on the device Oct 23 21:12:44 and I take that into consideration Oct 23 21:12:59 languish: I see a ripe opportunity for cheating Oct 23 21:13:01 romainguy__: haha, the reviewer comments on "Shutter Speed" are funny....bunch of morons :) Oct 23 21:13:18 zhobbs: yeah... stupid users :) Oct 23 21:13:30 lol Oct 23 21:13:36 my favorite comments are the one who accuse the app of breaking the Camera button Oct 23 21:13:36 delinka, i play with people I trust, who appreciate the luck fo the draw and random consequences Oct 23 21:13:57 and if someone cheats consistently, it eventually becomes appearent Oct 23 21:14:11 pick your RNG wisely Oct 23 21:14:47 cooperative dice rolling-- I'd trust that Oct 23 21:14:59 delinka: http://xkcd.com/221/ Oct 23 21:15:10 but I digress from channel topic ... Oct 23 21:15:30 Meh. Isn't one of the joys of tabletop play the visceral die-rolling experience? Not sure that it'd be as much fun if I had to click on my phone... Oct 23 21:15:44 yeah it's not intended for every roll Oct 23 21:16:17 Mind you, a VoIP-enabled RPG virtual tabletop client would be a *great* app. But a lot more work. Oct 23 21:16:20 only when you're sitting there and dealing with 3 clerics doling out turn undead to 18 hit dice each Oct 23 21:16:30 it gets messy Oct 23 21:16:53 * andyross admits he hasn't played an actual D&D game in 15-20 years. But he reads rules now and again. Oct 23 21:16:59 I remember a version of monopoly that ran in DOS on your 386 - dull as hell to play because the computer did everything for you except decide to buy property. forced you to play by The Rules *every time* Oct 23 21:17:21 yeah, last year i encountered some people that play and after 15+ years got back in to a game Oct 23 21:17:28 half the fun is your opponent not noticing you're sitting on his property with a hotel Oct 23 21:18:00 delinka, agreed, and i remember that Oct 23 21:18:24 the tools are there when you need them, not to replace your every decision Oct 23 21:20:47 hi Oct 23 21:27:09 why does the Term app fail to compile because it can't find android.os.Exec? is that a private vs public API thing? Oct 23 21:27:46 anybody know of any emulators (any platform) that are already ported to Android? Looking for some amusing games beyond what's in the Market so far. Oct 23 21:28:27 also, where's quake? Oct 23 21:28:47 who needs quake Oct 23 21:28:51 * jt436 has something better ;P Oct 23 21:29:02 oh? :-) Oct 23 21:29:18 . Oct 23 21:29:24 I have a partially working NES emulator Oct 23 21:29:25 :) Oct 23 21:29:26 jt436: duke nukkem forever? Oct 23 21:29:31 lol Oct 23 21:29:36 haha Oct 23 21:29:49 you have to wait Oct 23 21:29:56 yeah, nes emulator would be awesome Oct 23 21:30:02 haha - it IS duke nukem forever Oct 23 21:30:05 What's the story with quake on android? Oct 23 21:30:09 heaven knows we have to wait there... Oct 23 21:30:14 They showed it off like a year ago Oct 23 21:30:26 has anyone here got view.scrollTo/By to work? Oct 23 21:30:45 tmccrary: partially working? Oct 23 21:30:48 rob---: yes Oct 23 21:31:02 romainguy__: this problem is driving me nuts Oct 23 21:31:03 chrismurf: it works just fine, we even played deathmatches I believe with it Oct 23 21:31:11 i have a scrollview which has a textview child Oct 23 21:31:14 chrismurf: yes, I have most of the cpu implemented and part of the PPU Oct 23 21:31:20 romainguy__: where's the apk? :) Oct 23 21:31:23 but no matter what I do, I cant get it to scroll down Oct 23 21:31:32 yes, where is the quake apk? :) Oct 23 21:31:47 rob---: can you show your XML? Oct 23 21:31:54 sure, sec Oct 23 21:32:26 tmccrary: nice - mind sharing an APK, or isn't it quite there yet :-) Oct 23 21:32:33 certainly looking forward to that one Oct 23 21:33:20 romainguy__: http://paste2.org/p/91384 Oct 23 21:33:22 chrismurf: it really only executes code now, more work needs to be done with the PPU Oct 23 21:33:34 it's like the "video card" for the nes Oct 23 21:33:42 right - fair enough Oct 23 21:33:46 the textview id TV is the problem one Oct 23 21:33:47 handles rendering tiles Oct 23 21:33:52 shouldn't be too long though Oct 23 21:33:58 anyplace I can track progress, or is this the place? :-) Oct 23 21:33:59 rob---: the geight of your TV textview should be wrap_content, not fill_parent Oct 23 21:34:18 rob---: then you should be able to call scrollTo/By with no problem Oct 23 21:34:46 yeah for now this is the place, I'll be putting some stuff on our website before long though Oct 23 21:34:54 our goal is a kind of "virtual console" app Oct 23 21:35:02 is there a good place to check up on android ports? Oct 23 21:35:03 cool - which site's that? Oct 23 21:35:05 with a few different emulators Oct 23 21:35:08 should I call the method on the scrollview or the textview? Oct 23 21:35:12 I'll keep you informed :) Oct 23 21:35:15 jasta: does the Email app use any private API calls? Oct 23 21:35:24 no Oct 23 21:35:26 fair enough :-) Oct 23 21:36:06 rob---: TextView.scrollBy() will scroll the text within the TextVIew, which is probably not what you want unless you have more text than it can show at once. ScrollView.scrollBy() is what to call to bring the TextView into view Oct 23 21:36:13 rob---: on the scrollview Oct 23 21:36:54 hmm, ok, still not working Oct 23 21:37:09 this is the line: sv.scrollBy(0, tv.getHeight()); Oct 23 21:37:28 that won't work Oct 23 21:37:32 you're scrolling by too much Oct 23 21:37:49 grr, Ubuntu fail. they just pushed me gcc 4.2.4 but gave me a kernel built with 4.2.3 Oct 23 21:38:14 eek anybody have that link handy for usb-debugging instructions on google code? Oct 23 21:38:20 * umdk1d3 greps scrollback Oct 23 21:38:54 http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware Oct 23 21:39:06 yay! thanks ^.^ Oct 23 21:40:19 Anyone know why that's required? Shouldn't the sane policy be to allow access to the USB bus to the user logged into the console by default? Oct 23 21:40:24 sweet, it works! cheers romainguy__. You won't believe how much headache that has been for me >.< Oct 23 21:40:32 :) Oct 23 21:41:51 get a mac, is does usb logging by default ;) Oct 23 21:41:54 waldo_, anyone knows of a good file manager for android? Oct 23 21:41:54 it Oct 23 21:41:58 oops Oct 23 21:42:02 anyone knows of a good file manager for android? Oct 23 21:42:08 fadden: nice link Oct 23 21:42:32 I debug on the device all the time and I don't have android:debuggable="true" in my Manifest Oct 23 21:43:23 romainguy__: is the normal issue list a good place for end-user defects? Oct 23 21:43:40 probably Oct 23 21:43:52 zhobbs: "on the device" meaning G1, or on an emulator? Oct 23 21:44:02 fadden: G1 Oct 23 21:44:12 same here Oct 23 21:44:18 back to my original question, any good games ready which aren't on the Market? :-) Oct 23 21:44:47 who knows ;p Oct 23 21:45:01 zhobbs: what debugging are you actually doing? Oct 23 21:45:10 jt436: you are quite cryptic today Oct 23 21:45:20 * jt436 is tired Oct 23 21:45:29 i need a stiff drink Oct 23 21:45:52 xavd: just attaching a debugger in eclipse adding breakpoints/watch expressions, etc Oct 23 21:46:33 hmm Oct 23 21:46:38 zhobbs: that shouldn't work on production devices without debuggable="true". Perhaps eclipse set that for you by default? Oct 23 21:46:58 its diff for prod devices vs eng devices? Oct 23 21:46:58 zhobbs: can you debug the system_server process? Oct 23 21:47:00 mikez5: EClipse doesn't change the manifest automatically Oct 23 21:47:22 (system_process) Oct 23 21:49:02 any connectbot developers here? Oct 23 21:49:14 jeld_ no sorry Oct 23 21:49:14 waldo_: yes :) Oct 23 21:49:21 sup? Oct 23 21:49:27 umk1d3 ah, there you are-- the latest .apk isn't installing Oct 23 21:49:41 right, because whoever made it didnt sign it correctly or something Oct 23 21:49:45 the svn right? Oct 23 21:49:58 yup Oct 23 21:50:06 there isnt too much new in that svn Oct 23 21:50:23 umdk1d3: who is the keyholder for connectbot? Oct 23 21:50:29 zhobbs: lol dont go there Oct 23 21:50:33 were still trying to figure out that mess Oct 23 21:52:16 umdk1d3- btw-- you said sshkeys monday... any chance of port forwarding (ideally where if it drops it'll auto-reconnect) which I need for secure POP... (don't ask) Oct 23 21:52:49 lol port fwding isnt really on my list, but if you want it, feel free to write and submit a patch that we'll include :) Oct 23 21:53:18 *merge into the svn tree Oct 23 21:53:18 okay... that means rolling up my sleeves... I only wrote my first simple little android app like 3 days ago. Oct 23 21:53:24 hehe :) Oct 23 21:53:25 actually Oct 23 21:53:33 waldo_: i would highly recommend looking for other examples Oct 23 21:53:37 were using a well-known ssh library Oct 23 21:53:46 so others might have already written some of the code to make it happen Oct 23 21:53:57 how to launch HTML viwer? Oct 23 21:53:58 really its just the GUI side of things that we need to figure out Oct 23 21:54:01 yeah... I checked into the library you were using Oct 23 21:54:07 oh actually Oct 23 21:54:18 waldo_: if you have time, ive been meaning to do a diff against the trusted sources Oct 23 21:54:20 also how to check if the connection drops and reconnect... i don't onw how that works Oct 23 21:54:34 just to be sure we're working with pure sources Oct 23 21:54:43 umdk1d3-- why wouldn't you be? Oct 23 21:54:51 umk1d3 I saw you updated to the latest last month Oct 23 21:55:07 there is one other dev on the project. i trust him, but would be good to have third party verification Oct 23 21:55:31 mmmm... salt & vinegar chiiiiipss Oct 23 21:55:46 umk1d3 hmmm Oct 23 21:56:02 umk1d3 yeah it would be bad to go to market w/a trojaned app Oct 23 21:56:08 exaclty Oct 23 21:56:09 umdk1d3: sounds like a fun project management Oct 23 21:56:22 i didnt add anything malish, but it doesnt hurt to check Oct 23 21:56:32 lol yea Oct 23 21:56:35 languish: that's cruel dude. Oct 23 21:56:40 it's late afternoon in the US. Oct 23 21:56:50 and not all of us work at google. Oct 23 21:56:53 :-P Oct 23 21:56:58 waldo_: also, i did add ~12 lines of code to make PTY resizing work, but that should be pretty easily verifiable Oct 23 21:57:04 I don't work at google Oct 23 21:57:05 umk1d3 hmm Oct 23 21:57:13 umk1d3 let me see how hard it is to do this :) Oct 23 21:57:19 languish: meaning we dont have easy access to snackage. Oct 23 21:57:34 I just plan ahead. It's called shopping. Oct 23 21:57:42 pulling source from svn... Oct 23 21:57:57 umdk1d3 how well do you know your co-developer? Oct 23 21:58:28 waldo_: not at all outside of this project Oct 23 21:58:30 I heard umdk1d3 is logging all the hosts/passwords :) Oct 23 21:58:32 cannot seem to get G1 recoghnized by adb on my Fedora 9 system :( Oct 23 21:58:58 sigh zhobbs :P Oct 23 21:59:30 waldo_: none of the code in org.theb is being used anymore afaik Oct 23 21:59:37 umdk1d3 I wish there was a recursive diff... Oct 23 21:59:45 I've got the two src directories side by side here.. Oct 23 21:59:52 find with sed? Oct 23 21:59:57 jeld: are you root? Oct 23 22:00:06 you need to start the adb server as root Oct 23 22:00:07 but that's not to say there couldn't be bad code anywhere else capturing pw input or whatever but let me look at least at these directories.... Oct 23 22:00:08 vol, nope Oct 23 22:00:11 or something something /etc/something Oct 23 22:00:16 I forget the other step to do it as a normal user Oct 23 22:00:20 adb kill-server Oct 23 22:00:23 sudo adb start-server Oct 23 22:00:27 waldo_: patch!!!! Oct 23 22:00:34 patch is kinda like recursive diff Oct 23 22:00:49 patch applies diffs (?) Oct 23 22:00:56 it can also create them iirc Oct 23 22:01:00 checking manpage Oct 23 22:01:11 jeld: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware Oct 23 22:01:12 vol, thanx Oct 23 22:01:20 oh hmm, i guess patch only applys them Oct 23 22:01:27 theres gotta be a way to create them recursively tho Oct 23 22:01:33 everybodys doin it lol Oct 23 22:01:33 maybe a little script Oct 23 22:01:37 there's some ubuntu specific usb permissions info on there...not sure if any of it applies to fedora Oct 23 22:02:43 Always start with "lsusb" to make sure the device is being seen by the computer. Oct 23 22:02:56 After that it's a software fight. Oct 23 22:03:10 umdk1d3: diff -r will create recursive diffs Oct 23 22:03:57 Ok, I downloaded some source for a app from a website, and I am pretty new to Android and java, but was wondering if there is not any build.xml file with the source, How do I go about creating it for that certain source? Oct 23 22:04:08 enf your'e right Oct 23 22:04:11 I asked for it and there it is Oct 23 22:04:24 Androidz: the author probably expects you use Eclipse and the android plugin Oct 23 22:04:46 Androidz: download the SDK and read the getting started documentation to, well, get started. Oct 23 22:05:13 i just downloaded source and created new images, and I do not see some of the application; such as HTML viewer. But i do see it under settings-applications- manage application. So how do i launch it? Oct 23 22:05:28 Androidz: you can call activityCreator from the SDK and give it the AndroidManifest.xml as a parameter and it'll create build.xml for you Oct 23 22:05:34 jasta, I see. Well I have Eclipse and the plugin, and have created simple apps such as the hell world app, but I wanted to try this app and im kind of stuck. Oct 23 22:06:07 xavd, ok, and does it matter what the --out folder is called? Oct 23 22:06:17 Androidz: ok with eclispe, create a new Android project using the option to specify the source folder and select the folder of the app. it'll just create a folder for them Oct 23 22:06:30 err it'll create project for them Oct 23 22:06:50 actually the option is called "create project from existing source" :) Oct 23 22:07:05 ./activityCreator.py --out myproject your.package.name.ActivityName Oct 23 22:07:23 if you use activity creator I think you should use --out with the actual folder of the app Oct 23 22:07:44 I see Oct 23 22:07:58 I will try the Eclipse option that you stated, seems easier Oct 23 22:08:00 use the "activitycreator --out outdir [--ide intellij] path/to/AndroidManifest.xml" version Oct 23 22:08:09 or Eclipse :) Oct 23 22:08:10 jasta: could u help? i just downloaded source and created new images, and I do not see some of the application; such as HTML viewer. But i do see it under settings-applications- manage application. So how do i launch it? Oct 23 22:08:19 xavd, thaks :) Oct 23 22:08:23 what's a good pasteboard web site? Oct 23 22:08:56 http://pastebin.ubuntu.com Oct 23 22:09:06 http://paste.ubuntu.com that actually Oct 23 22:10:17 umdk1d3 -- here's a diff of the ssh2 directories from the source to your version: http://paste.ubuntu.com/61729/ Oct 23 22:10:37 obviously the .svn's can be ignored.. Oct 23 22:11:48 I don't see anything obviously evil. Oct 23 22:12:57 xavd, hm cant seem to find the project name, cant build the projeect wihtout it Oct 23 22:14:22 with Eclipse? Oct 23 22:14:28 ya Oct 23 22:14:35 * davidw wonders when the *next* batch of phones will come out Oct 23 22:14:40 you chose the folder containing the manifest file? Oct 23 22:14:47 ya Oct 23 22:14:51 sleep time though Oct 23 22:15:09 so in the wizard it failed to fill the fields at the bottom? Oct 23 22:15:16 was there an error message at the top? Oct 23 22:15:27 waldo_: awesome ^.^ Oct 23 22:15:33 thats a load off my mind :) Oct 23 22:15:45 the resizepty stuff should be contributed upstream at some point Oct 23 22:15:50 xavd, it filled in the package name on the bottom, but that was the only field filled in Oct 23 22:16:12 Will the capability for applications to observe incoming SMS messages be restored in future releases? There's a permission, but no public API. Oct 23 22:16:23 probably your app has no activity. We fixed it for the next plugin :\ Oct 23 22:16:27 if there is something missing on http://source.android.com/download should I file a bug about it, or contact someone about it? Oct 23 22:16:37 xavd, actually when I try to give it a Poject name, it gives an error about the Activity name Oct 23 22:17:00 xavd: you are working on userspace issues? Oct 23 22:17:00 xavd, ouch, Command line should still work right? Oct 23 22:17:11 Yeah that's the problem. The current wizard requires project name, activity name. Oct 23 22:17:15 yes command line will work Oct 23 22:17:20 sorry :( Oct 23 22:17:31 k I will give that a try thank you:) no worries :):) Oct 23 22:17:58 is getLine1Number working for anyone? Oct 23 22:18:31 it works in the emulator but does not work on my g1 device Oct 23 22:22:31 umdk1d3 glad to help in my small way :) Oct 23 22:23:47 xavd, what could this possibly mean? ERROR: Too many arguments: intellij] Oct 23 22:24:06 just don't use the intellij option (unless you use it) Oct 23 22:24:13 k Oct 23 22:24:27 activityCreator --out Oct 23 22:25:23 xavd, if I have the folder in the tools dir, would it work doing thing ' activitycreator --out NetworkTest NetworkTest/AndroidManifest.xml Oct 23 22:25:45 yeah it should work Oct 23 22:26:13 I get this ERROR: missing in 'NetworkTest/AndroidManifest.xml' Oct 23 22:26:23 thats something with the source? Oct 23 22:26:47 what source is that? I'm guessing this is an old source that use a different attribute name (it used to be label in older SDKs) Oct 23 22:27:00 one sec Oct 23 22:27:16 oh, there's a lot of google people here, I see that now Oct 23 22:27:37 xavd, http://www.anddev.org/telnet-client_for_android-t91.html Oct 23 22:27:39 well, nn people. Oct 23 22:27:41 can't see HSAH without somekind of secure link between a9 and wifi/sdio Oct 23 22:28:11 Androidz: hm it was posted 10 days after the very first SDK was released Oct 23 22:28:22 a LOT of APIs have changed since then. Oct 23 22:28:24 xavd, ya it has android:labal= in the source Oct 23 22:28:31 lol Oct 23 22:28:33 :) Oct 23 22:28:47 Ok, I guess I have to get some of the newer source for apps then :) Oct 23 22:28:54 gah /me not getting any real work done today Oct 23 22:28:55 you could create an empty project with eclipse, and then just copy the sources/resources/manifest into the new project Oct 23 22:29:04 then spend some time fixing all the API/XML changes :) Oct 23 22:30:35 haha ya, but Im sure there will be more like this coming out. Any word of terminal apps coming? Oct 23 22:34:15 GAHHHHHH Oct 23 22:34:22 * umdk1d3 whines about competition Oct 23 22:34:27 its always about one-upping the other guy Oct 23 22:34:37 goign to waste my night now adding new features Oct 23 22:37:21 how do I sign my app, so I can debug it on a phone? Oct 23 22:37:55 are you able to debug it on the emulator? Oct 23 22:38:10 yeah, just like I normally do Oct 23 22:38:17 herriojr: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware Oct 23 22:38:22 might need that flag in the Manifest Oct 23 22:38:23 cool thanks Oct 23 22:38:29 then it's signed with the debug key and you have nothing special to do to debug it on the device Oct 23 22:38:45 (zhobbs link is correct, I was only talking about signing) Oct 23 22:42:00 oh crap Oct 23 22:42:12 i figured out why the phone died lastnight Oct 23 22:42:39 frequent opening/closing of the screen makes the batter shake loose Oct 23 22:42:41 ok thanks Oct 23 22:42:43 O.O Oct 23 22:42:52 languish: wtf? I've never had that happen Oct 23 22:42:59 languish: is your back cover on wrong? Oct 23 22:43:02 no Oct 23 22:43:45 back cover's secure, battery is snug in its slot, but it's got just a bit of give Oct 23 22:43:57 when I shake the phone with my hand it doesn't come loose Oct 23 22:43:59 someone made a telnet client for android? Do people still use telnet? Oct 23 22:44:20 sure, I telnet to port 80 on www.cnn.com all the time Oct 23 22:44:33 not everything has a video driver Oct 23 22:44:34 but when i open/close the screen a number of times.. snapping it open/closed.. it seems to just barely lose contact Oct 23 22:44:35 how can eclipse add apps to an actual G1? Oct 23 22:44:44 umdk1d3: weren't you working on an amarok remote? Oct 23 22:45:28 now i wonder if I really should return this one for a new one. I'll have to test this on my wife's later Oct 23 22:45:28 languish: frequent opening/closing of the screen makes the batter shake loose << Oo wow, I play with the hinge a lot (I open/close it a hundred time a day) and it never happened Oct 23 22:45:29 it kinda works Oct 23 22:45:34 I was pointed at ConnectBot earlier: http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/ It's an ssh client, and appears to work amazingly well. Unfortunately a little after my first login I discovered the lack of either Ctrl or Esc on the G1's keyboard, so I need to figure out what to use for an editor... Oct 23 22:45:35 Androidz: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware Oct 23 22:45:37 marcone you must be a fan of raw http Oct 23 22:45:37 would really prefer to write a DACP server for amarok tho Oct 23 22:45:47 xavd, thanks Oct 23 22:45:57 anyross I think you can use the trackball button for either escape or control I forget which Oct 23 22:46:05 has someone buied a G1 ? Oct 23 22:46:09 how is it ? Oct 23 22:46:13 buiuiuuiieeeeed? Oct 23 22:46:14 Oh? Maybe that's documented somewhere, I should look. Oct 23 22:46:15 hi all ... fisrt Oct 23 22:46:16 i can has g1? Oct 23 22:46:17 :) Oct 23 22:46:51 andyross yeah there are workarounds and sshkey will be supported by monday I hear... from umdk1d3 here, who's one of the two developers Oct 23 22:47:10 is the google phone worth the money? :D Oct 23 22:47:15 meeso i think so Oct 23 22:47:26 romainguy, yeah, I was.. uh... doing it absentmindedly while thinking... Oct 23 22:47:29 *sigh* Oct 23 22:47:37 umdk1d3: ok, found the amarok tarball...going to try it out Oct 23 22:47:47 languish: I'm doing the same all day long :) Oct 23 22:47:51 zhobbs: youll need the python server running on the desktop too tho Oct 23 22:47:51 :) Oct 23 22:47:58 umdk1d3: yeah, I saw that Oct 23 22:47:59 yeah, I'll see if it happens on my wife's Oct 23 22:48:10 zhobbs: also, it doesnt give you library access to pick songs Oct 23 22:48:12 only basic controls Oct 23 22:48:14 andyross (or anybody else): you using the 100 or the svn r61? One better than the other atm? Oct 23 22:48:16 might just be something about my unit that seems to get all the wonky shit Oct 23 22:48:23 umdk1d3: isn't there a web remote control plugin for amarok? Oct 23 22:48:26 svn doesn't install Oct 23 22:48:35 The devel version that was on the site as of a few hours ago. I forget the version Oct 23 22:48:36 someone gets hit by a car every 8 seconds. i'm that guy. Oct 23 22:48:37 so, if my computer already recognizes it as a mass storage device (on Windows), how do I get it to use the android driver for debugging? Oct 23 22:48:46 andyross: chrismurf the svn only has like 1 or 2 new tiny changes Oct 23 22:48:51 and it isnt signed correctly afaik Oct 23 22:48:54 herriojr: that should not matter Oct 23 22:48:56 umdk1d3: thanks - I'll stick with 100 then ;-) Oct 23 22:49:02 herriojr: you can use USB mass storage and USB debugging at the same time Oct 23 22:49:03 Meeso_OS, hell ya Oct 23 22:49:14 It installed, so I presume it's signed adequately. Or maybe I clicked something off while browsing the settings? Oct 23 22:49:43 hmm andyross svn installed for you? Oct 23 22:49:51 i havent tried here, but lots of ppl have said no Oct 23 22:50:03 didn't install for me. Oct 23 22:50:21 svn installed for me too Oct 23 22:50:26 FWIW, if you want bug reports: there's some "noise" pixels along the bottom of the screen that I can't figure out. (Yes, the svn APK file installed just fine with adb, but I *think* I remember clicking on some debug/devel options in the settings -- maybe one of those elides signature checking?) Oct 23 22:50:27 flagg0204: ah good to know Oct 23 22:50:30 romainguy: the issue is that it isn't saying that I need a driver Oct 23 22:50:59 andyross oh you used adb-- i tried straight from the web Oct 23 22:51:03 herriojr: well did you install the adb driver? Oct 23 22:51:37 has android an usbether driver ? Oct 23 22:51:37 no, I figured it out, I'm retarded Oct 23 22:52:33 I mean could I connect by an usb cable and find an ethernet interface and a ssh server ? Oct 23 22:52:45 aLeSD: not out of the box, AFAIK. I wouldn't mind finding such a thing either, or better still a modem-like gadget that runs over bluetooth. Oct 23 22:53:08 it can't find the driver, and I specified the unzipped android_usb_windows.zip Oct 23 22:53:21 which contains the .inf .sys and .dll Oct 23 22:53:35 That's one of the nice things I liked about my old A780. You plugged it in, and not only were the VFAT drives available as storage devices, there was a network interface available with a samba server running. Oct 23 22:53:46 andyross: i don't understand a thing? is Android a linux based ? Oct 23 22:53:57 time to try a new build... seems like I'll need to do a "repo sync", can it handle now python2.5 as the default? (I can tell from the backlog I better use Java 1.5 and not 1.6) Oct 23 22:53:59 so all the driver in the linux kernel works Oct 23 22:53:59 aLeSD: yes Oct 23 22:54:19 so ... I could connect every device linux recognizes Oct 23 22:54:39 it depends on what drivers are built into the kernel Oct 23 22:54:40 and ... if I want install a CORBA framework Oct 23 22:54:41 aLeSD: probably not. Oct 23 22:54:46 The G1 doesn't have a interface exposed to modify the kernel, unfortunately. You can get a shell with a limited UID, but not load kernel modules nor reflash the device. Oct 23 22:55:29 and use an Android terminal to control the ... don't know .... something of searius Oct 23 22:56:36 I mean has Android the same potencial of linux? no? Oct 23 22:56:37 man Oct 23 22:56:44 i just had my first real experience with the browser on the g1 Oct 23 22:56:52 works great Oct 23 22:56:53 jasta: first real experience? Oct 23 22:56:56 lol Oct 23 22:56:56 seems very fast Oct 23 22:56:59 aLeSD: no? Oct 23 22:57:04 Dougie187: i mean, i had to go to some web page that i needed to get something from Oct 23 22:57:10 romainguy: yeah, it doesn't detect the driver when going through the Found New Hardware Wizard Oct 23 22:57:12 i used to to do more than just tinker :) Oct 23 22:57:22 herriojr: the driver is available at code.google.com/android Oct 23 22:57:24 herriojr: OS? Oct 23 22:57:42 windows Oct 23 22:58:01 ok ... one easy thing ... like an ssh terminal ? Oct 23 22:58:10 oh for some reason I thought you were on linux. Oct 23 22:58:16 I downloaded this one: http://dl.google.com/android/android_usb_windows.zip Oct 23 22:58:17 did you follow the steps: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware Oct 23 22:58:26 I wish I was, but I have to do a lot of BREW development as well Oct 23 22:58:32 sorry ... uf I'm silly ... I'm only tring to understand what Android is Oct 23 22:58:50 xavd: yes Oct 23 22:58:53 the emulator doesnt work on windows Oct 23 22:58:54 :/ Oct 23 22:58:59 I tried to launch it Oct 23 22:59:00 Meeso_OS: yes it does Oct 23 22:59:03 :O Oct 23 22:59:05 how? Oct 23 22:59:09 I double click Oct 23 22:59:13 my emulator works as well Oct 23 22:59:13 Meeso_OS: good reason to pass to linux Oct 23 22:59:15 and it doesnt do anything Oct 23 22:59:19 I hav elinux :D Oct 23 22:59:25 *have linux Oct 23 22:59:35 kubuntu to be exact :D Oct 23 22:59:45 herriojr: so the wizard does not find it when you give it the folder you unarchived? Oct 23 22:59:45 good choise Oct 23 22:59:52 :D Oct 23 22:59:55 but I will use gentoo Oct 23 22:59:56 xavd: correct Oct 23 22:59:59 Meeso_OS: to be honest I never click it, always launch from a command line Oct 23 23:00:05 to crosscompile sw for the Android kernel Oct 23 23:00:13 Meeso_OS: also "emulator -verbose" might show you why it fails to launch Oct 23 23:00:17 is the usb driver open source? Oct 23 23:00:24 herriojr: what version of windows? Oct 23 23:00:40 XP SP3 Oct 23 23:01:01 32-bit windows running on 64-bit hardware Oct 23 23:01:10 hmm that's strange Oct 23 23:01:23 intel core 2 herriojr ? Oct 23 23:01:52 Intel Xeon CPU 3.00GHz....2.99GHz, 3.00GB RAM Oct 23 23:02:23 herriojr: I have no idea. source here: http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/development.git;a=tree;f=host/windows/usb;hb=HEAD Oct 23 23:03:54 ok, thanks, I'll try that Oct 23 23:06:18 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 23 23:06:40 http://code.google.com/android/kb/general.html says C/C++ aren't supported, but http://code.google.com/android/what-is-android.html says "Android includes a set of C/C++ libraries used by various components of the Android system. These capabilities are exposed to developers through the Android application framework." so whast Oct 23 23:06:55 so what's the deal? Oct 23 23:07:14 lemonadedrink: they are exposed in Java Oct 23 23:07:53 libc is exposed throught Java? Oct 23 23:08:52 *through Oct 23 23:16:14 ok, someone with an identical computer could do it...I'm just going to try the old windows method of resarting and trying again :-/ Oct 23 23:16:42 hey Oct 23 23:17:06 should it be in the faq that you need "sudo easy_install readline" on os x before "repo" will work ? Oct 23 23:18:04 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:11:46) Oct 23 23:19:28 is it possible to have 2 google accounts associated with your android phone? Oct 23 23:19:36 i'd like to read email from 2 accounts Oct 23 23:19:57 you can use the 'email' app for your 2nd and other accounts Oct 23 23:21:33 hello Oct 23 23:21:48 anybody home? Oct 23 23:22:28 umdk1d3: what's taking so long for those requests on that amarok app? is the dcop slow or something? Oct 23 23:22:45 or that python web server or something Oct 23 23:22:47 hi, i have a question about inserting images into the Images ContentProvider Oct 23 23:22:57 namely... how do you do it? Oct 23 23:23:24 I tried Images.Media.insertImage(), but that gives me an UnsupporedOperationException Oct 23 23:25:00 yello? Oct 23 23:26:31 did you check to see how the camera application does it? Oct 23 23:26:48 where is that code? Oct 23 23:27:24 packages/apps/Camera Oct 23 23:29:44 'k 1 sec Oct 23 23:31:15 in the android open source? Oct 23 23:31:59 kingkung: you called that on the class? Oct 23 23:32:52 let me check Oct 23 23:33:12 String displayIconUri = Images.Media.insertImage(getContentResolver(), b, "Twitter Display Icon", null); Oct 23 23:38:04 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 23 23:39:16 does anyone dual-boot windows 64bit and windows 32 bit? Oct 23 23:39:47 I'm trying to eliminate some variables as to why I can't get the driver installed Oct 23 23:43:40 hi, any one see this (after download the source from git and "make"? external/clearsilver/cgi/cgi.c:22:18: error: zlib.h: No such file or directory Oct 23 23:44:03 Do you have /usr/include/zlib.h ? Oct 23 23:44:57 (or do we use external/zlib/zlib.h for that part of the build...?) Oct 23 23:46:08 clearsilver is a host tool, so it probably wants the host OS to have the zlib headers Oct 23 23:46:48 well I did not. I do now and it is going again. Should have look there first. thanks Oct 23 23:46:49 I don't see it including the external/zlib copy, but we do build our own HOST_STATIC_LIBRARY copy of zlib. Oct 23 23:47:08 Oh wait, I misread that. Oct 23 23:47:20 We build libunz both ways, not libz. Oct 23 23:50:27 on my ubuntu: apt-get install zlib1g-dev Oct 23 23:55:18 hey guys Oct 23 23:55:27 anyone have a G1 yet? Oct 23 23:55:49 kingkung: lots of us do now Oct 23 23:55:59 cool Oct 23 23:56:06 i imported my gmail contacts to my g1 Oct 23 23:56:15 but i accessed the people contentprovider Oct 23 23:56:25 and it looks like all of my "suggested contacts" (all 309 of them) Oct 23 23:56:28 were added as well Oct 23 23:56:31 anyone else have that problem? Oct 23 23:58:08 does anyone know what package curl-config is in....my install with libcurl3 doesn't seem to have it Oct 23 23:59:13 ok. I got further. now I am stuck at: Checking API: checkapi-current. (unknow): error 5: Added public field android.content.Intent.ACTION_POWER_CONNECTED Oct 24 00:04:48 The program 'curl-config' can be found in the following packages: * libcurl4-gnutls-dev * libcurl4-openssl-dev Oct 24 00:05:03 (so says Ubuntu 7.10) Oct 24 00:05:17 yeah, I got it, thanks Oct 24 00:05:22 I don't have it installed, apparently. Oct 24 00:06:37 having other issues....I'm having to build a newer version of git for ubuntu 7.10 as the most recent is 1.5.2 Oct 24 00:07:28 how would I connect to a http website? Oct 24 00:08:06 androoid: what exactly do you mean...like through a socket? Oct 24 00:08:19 just as if I went to a URL through my FireFox Oct 24 00:08:37 like http://host/index.aspx?imei=12412424 Oct 24 00:08:38 so you want to know how to use the browser? Oct 24 00:08:50 I want to know how to connect to http Oct 24 00:08:56 but dont have to read the content or anything Oct 24 00:09:13 http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/twitter-client-for-android-how-to-make-xml-over-http-calls/ Oct 24 00:09:19 I have something like Oct 24 00:09:41 URL myURL = new URL("website/default.aspx?imei=" + imei); HttpURLConnection urlConn = (HttpURLConnection) myURL.openConnection(); urlConn.connect(); Oct 24 00:10:02 I wouldn't completely know, I haven't used that before Oct 24 00:10:11 try the link I sent I guess Oct 24 00:11:54 I am just trying to do something http://www.anddev.org/getting_data_from_the_web_urlconnection_via_http-t351.html Oct 24 00:14:09 does anyone happen to have the android source without having to get it through git? I can't get the correct git version installed Oct 24 00:14:58 herriojr: you're on windows? Oct 24 00:15:14 well, I was trying to do it on vmware with my ubuntu 7.10 partition Oct 24 00:15:41 I don't need to build it, I just want the source so I can finger through it Oct 24 00:16:18 7.10's current version of git is 1.5.2, so I'd have to build 1.5.4, which when I try, it says it is missing some header files, which aren't there Oct 24 00:16:32 so in effect, I've given up on trying that Oct 24 00:17:53 is there a way to send someone a contact? Oct 24 00:17:59 form g1 to g1? Oct 24 00:18:02 *from Oct 24 00:23:38 damnit Oct 24 00:23:48 my Email account got deleted again Oct 24 00:23:48 languish: there is one that uses QR codes (and then you read it with the barcode scanner. It hasn't been released publically yet (I don't think), but I would imagine it will be fairly soonish Oct 24 00:23:53 yakischloba: eh? Oct 24 00:24:39 I can't believe some people are complaining about the $25 marketplace fee Oct 24 00:24:45 gdsx: I told morrildl about this earlier...My account keeps getting deleted from the Email app. I setup an account, read some messages, do something else with the phone, and then come back to it later and I'm seeing the original setup screen again, and the account I setup is no where to be found Oct 24 00:24:59 gdsx: it has happened 2x Oct 24 00:28:59 gdsx: dan said he hadn't heard of that happening before Oct 24 00:29:03 any ideas?.. Oct 24 00:29:37 <_avatar> yakischloba: have you tried to do a factory data reset? Oct 24 00:29:39 yakischloba: not really, though if you can check the log output, it might help Oct 24 00:29:49 yakischloba: (adb logcat) Oct 24 00:29:53 _avatar: I have not...should I? Oct 24 00:29:58 gdsx: is that available after the fact, ie, now? Oct 24 00:30:19 <_avatar> yakischloba: not sure, but if it keeps happening and you can't figure it out, it may be worth a shot Oct 24 00:30:21 <`vip> hrm any idea when internet sharing will be an option for the G1?? Oct 24 00:30:49 Hmm. I'm using the gmail imap servers for the account if that bears any significance Oct 24 00:31:22 err Oct 24 00:31:27 mail servers, both imap and smtp Oct 24 00:32:29 yakischloba: it's basically a circular buffer of some size that I forget Oct 24 00:32:36 yakischloba: so it's worth a shot Oct 24 00:32:49 ok. Oct 24 00:33:07 can I do that with the adb that is in the 1.0 SDK or do I need something else? Oct 24 00:33:17 I haven't gotten around to plugging my phone in to the computer yet Oct 24 00:33:24 so I'm a little clueless there Oct 24 00:35:43 omg, I'm the only one I see on the internet having the driver issues I'm having Oct 24 00:36:09 - I'm having Oct 24 00:36:25 yakischloba: you can use the SDK one Oct 24 00:36:51 yakischloba: you need to turn on adb on the handset first, though Oct 24 00:36:57 doh Oct 24 00:37:01 Settings-> Applications -> Development -> USB debugging Oct 24 00:37:02 no wonder not workee ;) Oct 24 00:39:30 Anyone know if there's development homepage for the Homes app? I see from the about screen Dmitri Plotnikov is the developer and Google has revealed to me that he works for Google -- Perhaps he's even in this channel.... I'd like to suggest some features :) Oct 24 00:39:41 gdsx: once you run adb logcat, does it clear the 'circular buffer' Oct 24 00:39:46 ? Oct 24 00:40:12 wub_: send him an email Oct 24 00:40:25 Unfortunately, Googling things like "homes android application" is giving me a lot of talk about the home button, etc... Oct 24 00:40:32 the homes app? Oct 24 00:40:32 Ooh, from the Market screen! Oct 24 00:40:36 wub_: yes :) Oct 24 00:40:37 like the homes screen? Oct 24 00:40:40 no Oct 24 00:40:41 Thanks. :) Oct 24 00:40:48 * wub_ forgot about that. Oct 24 00:40:49 it's an app to look for houses and apts to buy/rent Oct 24 00:41:01 ...are you kidding? Oct 24 00:41:07 It's cool -- I'm using it and I'd like to ues it to monitor places available in certain areas. Oct 24 00:41:11 Dougie187: no, why? Oct 24 00:41:15 it's actually a nice and useful app Oct 24 00:41:19 Dougie187: it's useful. Oct 24 00:41:26 I used it today, I'm looking for a new place Oct 24 00:41:35 is it google branded? Oct 24 00:41:36 you can look for places in a certain radius around your current location Oct 24 00:41:58 Dougie187: I'm actually using it and want to suggest features I'd like... or even get involved in development if I can. It doesn't seem like a big app but I'd love to work on something. Oct 24 00:42:24 Hmm. I'm creating a custom view. I've set onTouchEvent, which works fine, but key events and trackball events aren't responding. Do I have to modify focusableInTouchMode? Oct 24 00:42:24 i don't doubt its useful Oct 24 00:42:55 wub_: use the "email developer" link from the Market Oct 24 00:42:58 vol: no Oct 24 00:43:01 Yep, doing that now. Oct 24 00:43:10 vol: you will get key events when the view is focused Oct 24 00:43:30 yakischloba: no (sorry, switching back and forth between workspaces) Oct 24 00:43:33 hmph. Oct 24 00:43:53 yakischloba: running `adb logcat` is approx. equivalent to running `dmesg` on a linux machine Oct 24 00:43:58 vol: use setFocusable(true); for your view Oct 24 00:44:00 My layout consists of a linearLayout, and my custom layout inside Oct 24 00:44:08 gdsx: np. I just ran it once, then ^C out of it, then I ran it again and it gave no output. that's why I asked. replugging the phone solved it. Oct 24 00:44:27 yakischloba: weird Oct 24 00:45:14 Well, it seems to go to a generic e-mail address but I will provide feedback. :) Oct 24 00:45:26 gdsx: http://pastebin.com/m3e43a223 if you care to look Oct 24 00:45:27 Thanks jt436 Oct 24 00:45:31 that was the problem Oct 24 00:45:41 ;) Oct 24 00:45:54 gdsx: I don't see anything obvious but I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Oct 24 00:50:05 yakischloba: no, it doesn't look like Email logs anything useful Oct 24 00:50:17 gdsx: yeah. spectacularz Oct 24 00:50:28 yakischloba: I'd say go ahead and open a ticket on b.android.com Oct 24 00:50:35 you can enable the debug mode in Email Oct 24 00:50:38 to add more logs Oct 24 00:50:49 * waldo_ is back (gone 01:12:45) Oct 24 00:50:52 ok Oct 24 00:50:52 in the list of accounts, type debug on the keyboard Oct 24 00:50:55 then check the boxes Oct 24 00:50:56 romainguy: does that do more than protocol logs? Oct 24 00:51:10 gdsx: I don't know, but it might :) Oct 24 00:51:14 I will, once I get my damn account setup again :) Oct 24 00:51:17 there are 2 checkboxes Oct 24 00:51:22 I don't remember what they do Oct 24 00:51:31 one is debug, the other includes passwords and stuff Oct 24 00:51:56 How come the line1Number method is returning null? Oct 24 00:52:03 It was working in the emulator Oct 24 00:53:26 didn't jasta or michaelnovakjr write a remote logcat utility or something?.. Oct 24 00:53:44 that would be useful so I could like..capture this without having to be plugged into my computer all day Oct 24 00:54:06 when you run into an issue you can press Shift-Menu Oct 24 00:54:12 it dumps a full adb bugreport on the sdcard Oct 24 00:54:16 including the logcat Oct 24 00:54:24 nice Oct 24 00:54:25 so you can analyze it when you're near a computer Oct 24 00:54:48 I totally forgot I had an SD card until I was poking around in the phone info or wherever it lists the capacity Oct 24 00:55:47 lol Oct 24 00:55:49 I think the email app..when you are setting up an account and you type foo@bar.com, it should check mx for bar.com and see if the mail service is hosted by google, so then it can auto-configure Oct 24 00:56:13 i keep having to type imap/smtp.gmail.com and configure ssl etc Oct 24 00:56:25 romainguy: no, Shift+Menu doesn't work on non-debug builds Oct 24 00:56:39 gdsx: why did we disable this? Oct 24 00:56:43 or even just a "This account hosted by Gmail" button Oct 24 00:58:38 Is there a place to submit minor feature requests like that, or is it best to contact the particular developer of for instance, the Email app? Oct 24 00:59:09 yakischloba: Email is a system app, so you can probably just submit another ticket with "feature request" type or something like that Oct 24 00:59:15 does anyone else have both windows 64-bit and 32-bit on their machine? Oct 24 00:59:21 yakischloba: file a bug in the issue tracker Oct 24 00:59:32 Okay, even if it is not a bug eh Oct 24 00:59:36 sure Oct 24 00:59:57 yakischloba: for Type, you can likely do "Feature Request" Oct 24 01:00:04 Gotcha. Oct 24 01:00:30 I still can't get the damn driver installed Oct 24 01:01:22 romainguy__, gdsx: Is there anything potentially useful in the 'sensitive information' logging, or should I not bother? Oct 24 01:01:33 yakischloba: no Oct 24 01:01:45 k Oct 24 01:01:52 yakischloba: primarily, it doesn't omit your IMAP/SMTP passwords Oct 24 01:02:00 yeah Oct 24 01:03:52 anyone know how to get locationmanager to output the gps into GPRS format? Oct 24 01:05:23 romainguy__: so since your trick is evidently not in the retail build, should I just pursue the remote logcat deal? Oct 24 01:07:48 Yes! i've got the g1 today. posting from it :) Oct 24 01:08:29 mibbit works huh? Oct 24 01:08:36 let me try Oct 24 01:10:43 not good, cant see anything without zooming out. hope someone comes up with irc client soon Oct 24 01:10:58 not bad Oct 24 01:11:31 k its pretty bad Oct 24 01:12:12 romainguy, did you see this yet? http://classicsapp.com/ and http://blog.cocoia.com/2008/10/23/designing-classics/ Oct 24 01:12:41 ahah nice UI Oct 24 01:12:47 ooh Oct 24 01:12:48 Flatland Oct 24 01:12:49 awesome book Oct 24 01:13:11 I'm pretty sure the page turning animation would drive me nuts Oct 24 01:13:20 you have to make it happen for android. These guys say their program is iPhone only Oct 24 01:14:01 well let's just bombard them with scotch tape x-rays until they relent Oct 24 01:14:06 e someone comes up with irc client soon Oct 24 01:14:06 [21:10] not bad Oct 24 01:14:06 [21:11] * tethridge_ (n=tale@cpe-075-177-151-223.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #android Oct 24 01:14:06 [21:11] k its pretty bad Oct 24 01:14:06 [21:12] romainguy, did you see this yet? http://classicsapp.com/ and http://blog.cocoia.com/2008/10/23/designing-classics/ Oct 24 01:14:08 [21:12] ahah nice UI Oct 24 01:14:10 [21:12] ooh Oct 24 01:14:12 [21:12] Flatland Oct 24 01:14:14 [21:12] awesome book Oct 24 01:14:16 wtf Oct 24 01:14:18 my bad Oct 24 01:14:25 meant.. http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/23/scotch-tape-surprises-everyone-by-producing-x-rays/ Oct 24 01:14:27 romainguy: so since your trick is evidently not in the retail build, should I just pursue the remote logcat? Oct 24 01:14:41 what was the link to the android windows driver source again? Oct 24 01:14:42 yakischloba: sure Oct 24 01:15:08 romainguy: well, that seems like my best/only sure approach. Do you agree? Oct 24 01:15:28 I don't agree on anything, you do what you want :)) Oct 24 01:15:35 of course not. Oct 24 01:17:13 the ultimate reason for market failure Oct 24 01:17:17 i tried to use flash media players and it didn't work, youtube works with a specific application, but I was trying to do youporn.com .... Oct 24 01:17:32 :| Oct 24 01:18:03 yeah I tried to get on some porn vids too, slightly disappointed. That is the first novelty I had to try to show off to my coworkers, and it failed ;) Oct 24 01:18:16 I can't sign in into freaking AIM client for days, it says.. NETWORK ISSUE Oct 24 01:18:25 I can't use GPS for days, it says... NETWORK PROBLEM Oct 24 01:18:27 JEsus Oct 24 01:18:47 Aleksey, I'm in nyc too. it works for me Oct 24 01:18:59 want a hand figuring it out Oct 24 01:19:09 What is there to figure out tho? AIM should work Oct 24 01:19:21 There are no settings for it i assume? Oct 24 01:19:25 so if I try and force-install drivers, I get a fatal error Oct 24 01:19:33 first, were you using wifi or 3g when logging in to aim? Oct 24 01:19:41 3g Oct 24 01:19:51 did you *try* with wifi? Oct 24 01:20:02 yeah Oct 24 01:20:09 same issue or did it work? Oct 24 01:20:17 wifi signal is really low by the way, my laptop gets 5, phone gets 3 bars Oct 24 01:20:19 yup Oct 24 01:20:35 yup what Oct 24 01:20:39 i can sign in google just fine Oct 24 01:20:41 same issue Oct 24 01:20:41 it worked on wifi or no Oct 24 01:20:44 ok Oct 24 01:20:47 Hmm. Oct 24 01:20:56 so it's likely either your account, or the phone Oct 24 01:21:16 did you try logging in to aim via a desktop pc, using the web based aim client? Oct 24 01:21:27 Ok, I'm using onTrackBallEvent, but like it mentions, the values are normalized. I only want to get 1x at a time. Is this possible? Oct 24 01:22:21 i tried entering fake accounts Oct 24 01:22:24 always network issue Oct 24 01:22:44 yeah.. i can login from desktop man Oct 24 01:22:56 vol: you get a motionevent, just grab the info you need Oct 24 01:23:09 ok, try a soft reset of the phone soft reboot is green+menu+red Oct 24 01:23:23 if that doesn;t work.. I would suggest a full reset Oct 24 01:23:40 it worked for me and my wife's g1's to clear up a number of issues Oct 24 01:23:52 willl i loose my data Oct 24 01:23:58 what data? Oct 24 01:24:08 phone numbers Oct 24 01:24:11 configured email accounts Oct 24 01:24:12 your google contacts are saved to the cloud Oct 24 01:24:29 it'll take you less than 15 minutes to set up whatever you had befoe Oct 24 01:25:04 how do i do hard reset Oct 24 01:25:19 jt436: yeah, I just want to "save it" until I have >= 1 for x or y Oct 24 01:25:29 Aleksey, to reset the G1 completely: 1) turn off the phone. 2) press and hold the HOME and Oct 24 01:25:30 POWER - may only need the HOME- buttons for at least 20 seconds until you see an Oct 24 01:25:30 image with a triangular icon 3) open the keyboard 4) press alt l (that's an L, Oct 24 01:25:30 may not need this step) 5) press alt w 6) when the process completes on the Oct 24 01:25:30 screen press and hold HOME and BACK keys for a couple of seconds. Oct 24 01:26:13 then you'll have to reinitialize your phone Oct 24 01:26:16 Do you want to reboot your phone or reset it? Oct 24 01:26:20 when i got my phone yesterday i had 'welcome to android, enter google name etc' does that mean it was hard reseted before that? Oct 24 01:26:28 If so, what is the point to do it again Oct 24 01:26:28 cbeust_, i suggested he reboot it first Oct 24 01:26:33 he asked how to hard reset Oct 24 01:26:38 ok Oct 24 01:26:45 Hard reset: Settings / SD Card / Factory reset Oct 24 01:26:49 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 24 01:26:54 Should rephrase that "factory reset" Oct 24 01:27:22 cbeust_, factory reset for some reason, didn't succeed where then roundabout method did on my wife's g1 Oct 24 01:27:41 nfi what the difference is, of if just doing it twice was the diff Oct 24 01:27:47 of/or Oct 24 01:27:51 can anyone make sense of this windows driver install log? http://pastebin.ca/1235263 Oct 24 01:31:32 herriojr: you said you use XP SP3 right? Oct 24 01:31:42 yes Oct 24 01:31:56 I'm going to file a bug internally with your log Oct 24 01:32:40 actually you should file it yourself on http://code.google.com/p/android/downloads/list Oct 24 01:32:44 that way you can track it Oct 24 01:33:11 ok Oct 24 01:34:20 hi/win 2 Oct 24 01:34:24 hrm Oct 24 01:37:53 Hi all! Any ideas if android challenge round 2 will start soon and thereby will be available only to tmobile customers? (considering the fact that only tmobile has device). if it doesn't start quite soon it is somewhat behind the schedule. Oct 24 01:38:34 I haven't heard any other telecom announcing android-supported phone and if it would come out in november it would very likely be already announced.. Oct 24 01:39:18 AhtiK: You're obviously still able to develop using the emulator. Seems like most developers had no trouble doing that, and then only a little polishing on the device. Oct 24 01:39:58 yakischloba, that's true. yet round 2 starting criteria from google was that it starts whenever first devices hit the market :) Oct 24 01:40:20 yakischloba, we participated in round 1 but didn't get lucky to win :( Oct 24 01:40:26 devices plural? Oct 24 01:40:35 languish, I hope so, at least :D Oct 24 01:40:42 languish, for plural Oct 24 01:40:57 supposedly another device is coming out this year Oct 24 01:41:20 and the G1 did just launch, they may be a bit busy Oct 24 01:41:36 languish, "The Android Developer Challenge II will launch after the first handsets built on the platform become available in the second half of 2008." Oct 24 01:41:51 eh. well, it has been about a day. patience ;) Oct 24 01:42:00 I wish something looking as sleek as ericsson xperia would be android-based. Oct 24 01:42:01 AhtiK: it just says "after", it doesn't say when :) Oct 24 01:42:39 romainguy____, true ;) these "after something" statements are always funny as they promise only that it wont start "before" .p Oct 24 01:45:10 $ uptime Oct 24 01:45:10 uptime: permission denied Oct 24 01:45:11 :( Oct 24 01:45:26 you can see the uptime in the settings Oct 24 01:45:31 heh yeah I know. Oct 24 01:50:37 does the g1 tack bandwidth usage? Oct 24 01:50:40 *track Oct 24 01:50:50 specifically 2/3g Oct 24 01:52:22 speaking of that - did we get confirmation about the 400 message limit including google talk and email as well as text messages? Oct 24 01:52:49 Google Talk and Email don't count towards your SMS Oct 24 01:53:01 but AIM/Yahoo/Live Messenger do Oct 24 01:53:23 Is this a bug? I touch my view via touchscreen, then click the trackball. The click isn't handled until the trackball moves. Oct 24 01:53:34 romainguy____: thanks Oct 24 01:53:44 vol: no, that's because your view doesn't have focus Oct 24 01:53:51 you need to move the trackball first to give it focus Oct 24 01:53:58 hmm. Oct 24 01:53:59 if you write a game, make it focusbale in touch mode Oct 24 01:54:01 otherwise, leave it alone Oct 24 01:54:18 ha, I just wrote setFocusableInTouchMode(true) as you wrote that : ) Oct 24 01:54:22 yes, I'm writing a game Oct 24 01:54:23 i still don't have web access :p Oct 24 01:54:25 oh, AIM does use SMS? sigh Oct 24 01:54:26 (implementing a Go client) Oct 24 01:57:23 Hmm, and now the return button doesn't work, from setFocusableInTouchMode :( Oct 24 01:57:29 blargh Oct 24 01:58:07 what is the connection open to google server while my phone doesnt appear to be doing anything? Oct 24 01:58:18 o_O Oct 24 01:58:37 72.14.247.188:5228 ESTABLISHED Oct 24 01:58:52 capture dem packets Oct 24 01:59:45 yakischloba: Gmail or Gtalk or OTA updates checker or Calendar, etc. Oct 24 01:59:54 yeah i figured as much Oct 24 02:01:05 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:34:15) Oct 24 02:01:33 oh good, i was wondering where you were Oct 24 02:01:35 :) Oct 24 02:02:07 So, why is it that whenever I click the debug or run button in eclipse, it always tries to run anything BUT the android run configuration? :\ Oct 24 02:02:21 (just launched unit tests by accident. again.) Oct 24 02:02:42 because the project is both an android project and a java project so eclipse does not know how to launch it Oct 24 02:02:42 Say I have a poor 3G signal - do I get a power consumption advantage by using WiFi if it is abundant? Oct 24 02:03:00 yakischloba: no Oct 24 02:03:01 I suggest going in the settings and changing the behavior of the button to launch the previously launched configuration Oct 24 02:03:06 SanMehat: wifi always more eh Oct 24 02:03:17 yakischloba: yeah Oct 24 02:03:23 xavd: argh, I thought that was the default? :\ Oct 24 02:03:25 yakischloba: the transmitter is expensive Oct 24 02:03:34 SanMehat: gotcha Oct 24 02:03:48 vol: this changed in 3.3. Go in the prefs in Run/Debug > Launching, at the bottom of the page Oct 24 02:04:02 choose "always launch the previously launched application" Oct 24 02:04:10 aha Oct 24 02:04:13 thanks Oct 24 02:04:16 found it Oct 24 02:06:59 does android have support for Java? I tried using a java web based irc client, but it said I didnt have java. But my device says its enabled? Oct 24 02:07:40 also, does having those 6 back apps running all time kill the battery faster???? Oct 24 02:07:52 Just so I know I'm not accidentally deleting the Email account - the only way to do that is to hold down on the account and select "Remove Account", right? Oct 24 02:07:53 Androidz: no, background apps do not kill the battery.. Oct 24 02:08:10 yakischloba: sorry i don't know man. that makes sense though. Oct 24 02:08:30 Androidz: applications that are in 'the background' do not actually get any resources. Oct 24 02:08:46 SanMehat: that is the only way I can find to delete them. I will be watching my logcat next time it disappears then. Oct 24 02:09:07 SanMehat, ok, so the battery life for the G1 just planely sucks Oct 24 02:09:14 yakischloba: yeah, I'm pretty sure you'd know if you were deleting them Oct 24 02:09:19 Androidz: how long does it last for you? Oct 24 02:09:21 gdsx: that's what I figured. Oct 24 02:09:29 not long at all Oct 24 02:09:39 Androidz: are you running applications which use GPS or wifi? those are quite good at chewing through battery Oct 24 02:09:39 Androidz: that doesn't really mean anything Oct 24 02:09:45 Androidz: do you have an approximate number? Oct 24 02:09:52 gdsx, I had it fully charged around 4, and it is now 7 with 38 % left Oct 24 02:10:03 gdsx: I know I had the phone in my hand a couple time without the screen being locked, but there's no way it could have happened *twice* like that. Oct 24 02:10:29 yakischloba: if that happens to you please take a bugreport. Oct 24 02:10:39 maybe more around 3 but still, barely 4 hrs Oct 24 02:11:05 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 24 02:11:05 SanMehat: yeah I am going to try to get a log before I submit it. romain explained how to enable the 'extra' debugging for the Email app, so I'm prepared with that. Oct 24 02:11:07 Androidz: do you have any apps installed that might try to track where you're going or anything like that? Oct 24 02:11:28 gdsx, where google maps, I do have locale and lifeaware installed Oct 24 02:12:06 well google maps* Oct 24 02:12:08 Androidz: I haven't used them, but I'd suggest to try uninstalling locale and lifeaware. I don't know if that will help, but it might Oct 24 02:12:32 Androidz: google maps doesn't use GPS when you're not interacting with it Oct 24 02:12:38 gdsx, eh, I still would assume they would come out with a better battery I mean come on, this is supposed to be on the net Oct 24 02:12:52 Androidz: GPS is very battery-expensive Oct 24 02:13:03 AND my brightness is down all the way Oct 24 02:13:17 Still This phone was made for the net and GPS Oct 24 02:13:33 Androidz: it wasn't made for continuous GPS use, though Oct 24 02:13:35 they need to fix this , I am very unimpressed with the life Oct 24 02:13:41 doesnt matter Oct 24 02:13:53 and how can you say its not Oct 24 02:13:57 Androidz: are you even listening to me? I'm trying to help Oct 24 02:14:14 Androidz: maybe you could contribute some magical power management patches that all the engineers couldn't figure out how to write. Oct 24 02:14:22 ya I am gdsx , and I know you are. I am just telling you where I come from as a consumer Oct 24 02:14:33 Androidz: we're continually making improvements to the power management infrastructure. Oct 24 02:14:51 Androidz: one of the great things about the G1, is it updates itself OTA... Oct 24 02:15:19 yakischloba, SanMehat I am not blaming the developers, bad coding could be a part of it, BUT the major problem has to do with the batt itself Oct 24 02:15:24 Androidz: the bottom line is that the battery stores a certain amount of energy. The GPS uses that energy at a rather high rate, which means your battery dies a lot faster than it would if the GPS weren't on continuously Oct 24 02:15:52 Androidz: I mean, even dedicated GPS units don't last incredibly long under continuous use Oct 24 02:15:56 Androidz: maybe you could invent a new kind of battery then. It isn't like this is a battery somehow inferior to others in standard use Oct 24 02:15:59 gdsx, Ya I know, I am aware of the GPS drainage, all in all its a typical battery Oct 24 02:16:05 in an UNtypical phone :) Oct 24 02:16:32 Iphone gets better battery life Oct 24 02:16:53 and such are the problems of creating something like this. Take it back then, it isn't like no one knows it needs improvement Oct 24 02:16:59 it's totally unfair that batteries suck so badly Oct 24 02:17:13 wastrel: :o) Oct 24 02:17:33 no need to get defensive yall Oct 24 02:17:33 Androidz: regardless, I'd suggest you uninstall locale and lifeaware and see if your battery life improves Oct 24 02:17:46 gdsx, I will probably do that, I havent used them Oct 24 02:18:00 although locale is nice to turn off my ringer when I cam at school Oct 24 02:19:12 Androidz: yeah, it's tough to find a good compromise, especially since the handset is so new (and the ADC folks didn't have handsets when they were designing their apps, so it was tough to see these problems beforehand) Oct 24 02:19:57 gdsx, ya I know. I still it's more of battery issue itself rather then any code Oct 24 02:20:23 right.. Oct 24 02:20:30 how did the big release work out? Oct 24 02:20:56 Androidz: I'm not sure I agree, but this discussion isn't going to go anywhere :o) Oct 24 02:21:13 gdsx, ^^ your right, only time will tell eh? Oct 24 02:21:15 anyway Oct 24 02:21:27 anyone know where I might pick up some third party source? Oct 24 02:21:40 OK, finally getting around to trying to build the tree so I can get a bionic library set. Is there any way to get this building on x86_64 natively, or an I SOL? Oct 24 02:22:12 Alternatively, is there a way to build just the bionic subdirectory using the prebuilt toolchains? Oct 24 02:22:14 ls Oct 24 02:23:10 anyone agree that eclipse is about 3x as slow as it used to be 2 years ago? Oct 24 02:24:29 so.. did anyone get the phone? Oct 24 02:26:07 andyross: to build on x86_64, you type `make`. Possibly `make -j N` Oct 24 02:28:15 andyross: of course, you could mean something totally different to how I parsed that, in which case, sorry Oct 24 02:29:39 When attempting to build "host Executable: acp", presumably via a custom ld command? (I can't tell because the make is hiding the commands), it's dying with a "can't find -lstdc++" error. But a g++ -m32 works fine on this box. Oct 24 02:30:08 andyross: does `make showcommands` dtrt? Oct 24 02:31:07 andyross: if it's building it as 32-bit, though, you likely need the 32-bit libstdc++-(version stuff)-dev Oct 24 02:31:54 andyross: hmm... this machine doesn't have the 32-bit one on it, though Oct 24 02:31:59 andyross: what gcc version? Oct 24 02:32:29 4.1.2, it's an Ubuntu gutsy box. Oct 24 02:33:05 andyross: also, did `make showcommands` show the commands? Oct 24 02:33:20 Sorry, in a separate window. Same deal. Oct 24 02:35:13 andyross: hmm... you don't have a newer gcc you can try, perhaps? I've built it successfully with gcc 4.2.3 and 4.3.2 (on x86_64) Oct 24 02:35:42 andyross: also, I'm not sure I was clear. does `make showcommands` show you the command that's failing? Oct 24 02:35:48 No, it fails to build. Oct 24 02:36:03 andyross: reread the question, please Oct 24 02:36:34 The build fails at the same point: it's the same "acp" prereq. Oct 24 02:36:46 andyross: "does it show you the command that is failing?" Oct 24 02:37:27 OK, now my turn to get snippy: I told you up above that, no, it does *not* show the command that is failing. If you're going to snipe at your users, read more carefully. Oct 24 02:38:50 andyross: sorry. Regardless, did you try `make showcommands`? (I can't tell whether you have or haven't from what you've told me) Oct 24 02:38:53 such hostility Oct 24 02:41:00 Yes. "make showcommands" fails at exactly the same step as the default make target. Apparently "acp" is a prereq of whatever showcommands needs to do. Oct 24 02:42:09 andyross: I guess it's not working, then. On our internal tree, `make showcommands` shows you what commands make is running before it runs them Oct 24 02:42:40 Oh, OK. I thought that was a separate target. Let me look more carefully. Oct 24 02:43:24 yakischloba: not really. IRC breeds miscommunication/misunderstandings, which cause people to get frustrated Oct 24 02:43:27 it happens Oct 24 02:43:32 ;) Oct 24 02:44:20 And indeed, yes: it's a g++ -m32 command. No 32 bit -lgcc. Oct 24 02:44:27 Has there been any talk of Google utilizing it's live stock quotes on Android? Oct 24 02:44:47 speaking of quotes Oct 24 02:45:03 hmm... Oct 24 02:45:05 one sec Oct 24 02:45:08 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1018 does anybody understand what this user wants? :) Oct 24 02:45:37 So backing up a few steps, is there any way to get a build of bionic only, using just the prebuilt toolchains (which I've already verified run just fine)? I really don't want to build the whole platform, I'm just trying to get a native toolchain up and running. Oct 24 02:45:52 romainguy: he obviously wants "streeming" Oct 24 02:46:15 andyross: at a guess, `make -C bionic`? Oct 24 02:46:41 No makefile there, though. Just an Android.mk which gets pulled into something else. Oct 24 02:46:46 romainguy: I'd imagine that it opens up a second window or something, that needs to be open in unison with another to be useful Oct 24 02:47:03 sounds like a bug that will get a Decline :) Oct 24 02:47:07 Yeah. Oct 24 02:47:09 andyross: yeah... umm... Oct 24 02:48:53 hey, dont be squelching the minority that need their streeming Oct 24 02:49:01 remember the little people Oct 24 02:49:15 boo Oct 24 02:49:27 romainguy: I just checked it on my scottrade account. the streaming quotes run in java applets in about 5 different windows. decline ;) Oct 24 02:49:27 geist: I'm French, so I'm supposed to be arrogant and mean Oct 24 02:49:35 yakischloba: lol ok Oct 24 02:49:40 i bet deep down inside dalvik always supported streeming Oct 24 02:50:02 we on the Dalveek teem are pro-streeming Oct 24 02:50:35 andyross: looks like `make bionic` DTRT Oct 24 02:50:47 it might not, though :o) Oct 24 02:51:25 andyross: yeah, looks like it should do the right thing Oct 24 02:51:55 I take it that this Bank of America online banking thing was developed in strong coordination with BOA? Oct 24 02:52:30 the publisher is listed as "bank of america" i believe Oct 24 02:52:41 ah ok Oct 24 02:52:43 i missed that Oct 24 02:53:09 It would be nice if other banks would do that :) Oct 24 02:53:11 bank of america app yeah. the reviews all say to just use the website Oct 24 02:53:19 haha really Oct 24 02:53:20 that sucks Oct 24 02:53:37 wastrel: that works? cool Oct 24 02:53:40 (it didn't used to) Oct 24 02:53:57 does the g1 have Flash? Oct 24 02:53:59 i didn't try the app or the website so :] Oct 24 02:54:00 What I think would be nice is a home screen widget that updates every hour or something Oct 24 02:54:09 with the account balances Oct 24 02:54:27 i want the wallpaper of the home app to randomly rotate Oct 24 02:54:35 also: i want to make screen widgets Oct 24 02:55:07 you can't do #2 Oct 24 02:55:16 it's gonna take a while before we do this Oct 24 02:55:20 :( Oct 24 02:55:25 I mean Oct 24 02:55:30 it's gonna take a while to implement Oct 24 02:55:36 ooh! Oct 24 02:55:38 thats an idea Oct 24 02:55:53 doing widgets using a service that updates the background pic Oct 24 02:56:02 yeah we thought about that Oct 24 02:56:02 you cant interact Oct 24 02:56:07 but it sucks :) Oct 24 02:56:09 and its a total hack atm Oct 24 02:56:21 I check my bank balance once a day or so anyway, so I think that would be nice to have it handy at all times Oct 24 02:56:27 actually I already have a feature for 1.1 that allows to create sort of widgets :)) Oct 24 02:56:30 how soon would we see desktop widgets tho, like in prolly 3-6 months down the road? Oct 24 02:56:45 but to have real widgets, we will need a lot of work in the framework Oct 24 02:56:56 basically we need a way to display in Home a View that runs in another process Oct 24 02:57:05 am i noticing a magic parallax effect with the background picture when i switch between the desktops on the home app? Oct 24 02:57:06 we certainly don't want external code to run in Home Oct 24 02:57:10 (Home has permissions) Oct 24 02:57:10 that pesky security Oct 24 02:57:14 also could they do some buttons in a notification view? for example, it would be awsome to play/pause music from ongoing notif box Oct 24 02:57:17 wastrel: yup :o) Oct 24 02:57:20 wastrel: yes :) Oct 24 02:57:53 that's hella cool. is it a special image format or are you guys somehow distinguishing the foreground and background of the pic? Oct 24 02:58:09 there's no distortion of the image. Oct 24 02:58:14 wastrel: the background isn't quite as wide as the virtual desktop Oct 24 02:58:15 it's just the icons sliding at a different rate. Oct 24 02:58:20 think nintendo NES ;) Oct 24 02:58:28 ahhh Oct 24 02:58:34 also I had a custom version of Home that was using 3 wallpapers Oct 24 02:58:43 to get even more parallax magic ^^ Oct 24 02:58:48 Heh. Oct 24 02:58:52 MEGALLAX Oct 24 02:58:53 the icons are parallax but the image isn't Oct 24 02:59:14 (speaking of Home, you should look at the source code of Launcher.java to learn about the magic property that enables the use of motion sensors to switch between screens) Oct 24 02:59:35 wait whaaaaaaat? Oct 24 02:59:37 romainguy: wait, you mean like the accelerometer? Oct 24 02:59:42 yes Oct 24 02:59:45 sweet Oct 24 02:59:50 =D its disabled right now then? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 24 02:59:57 2008