**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 24 02:59:57 2008 Oct 24 02:59:58 too bad you can't enable that property on a production g1 ^^ Oct 24 03:00:12 (at least not without recompiling Home) Oct 24 03:00:42 romainguy: well you could install a second home app, right? just change all the namespaces awway Oct 24 03:00:50 yep Oct 24 03:00:59 or remove the first home app, then drop replace it with a diff sig? Oct 24 03:01:09 you can't remove it since it's in the read only partition Oct 24 03:01:14 ohhh :/ Oct 24 03:01:33 but yeah, you can just change the package name Oct 24 03:01:34 anyone have one of the actual phones? Oct 24 03:01:44 not just the emu? Oct 24 03:01:58 Plenty of people Oct 24 03:01:58 not until they get 3G here Oct 24 03:02:50 i have one Oct 24 03:03:03 * benley thinks it's kinda weird that tmo refuses to sell in non-3g markets, since his g1 worked perfectly fine before there was 3g coverage here... Oct 24 03:03:06 do you like it Oct 24 03:03:35 aside from the standard complaints i like it. Oct 24 03:04:10 standard complaints being, battery life, lack of onscreen keyboard, not enough apps in the marketplace yet, no headphone jack. Oct 24 03:04:27 i blame google and specifically the android team for not producing absolute perfection Oct 24 03:04:29 give the marketplace a couple of weeks. Oct 24 03:04:31 no headphone jack??? Oct 24 03:04:46 theCarpenter: it's got that damn audio+usb jack that HTC likes to use Oct 24 03:04:49 v. disappointed, disillusioned Oct 24 03:04:50 wastrel: guilty as charged Oct 24 03:05:06 I admit Oct 24 03:05:07 I actually filed a bug for this, "Not perfection" but it got postponed to v1.1 Oct 24 03:05:12 I did sleep for a few hours over the past 18 months Oct 24 03:05:28 no wonder there are bugs Oct 24 03:05:33 romainguy: slacker! Oct 24 03:05:33 I've even seen cbeust_ leave work to go home once Oct 24 03:05:37 :P Oct 24 03:05:44 why would anyone leave the google campus? Oct 24 03:06:00 things like the headphone deal are a little ridiculous ;) Oct 24 03:06:09 yeah and without the invention of laptops, I might even actually have enjoyed my time home without working Oct 24 03:06:12 geist: to once again experience the joy of arriving at work, of course! Oct 24 03:06:16 go complain on #htc :) Oct 24 03:06:19 geist: not everybody works in mountain view, believe it or not Oct 24 03:06:35 muhahah i just got +o on #htc Oct 24 03:06:42 * umdk1d3 rolls eyes Oct 24 03:06:45 yeah, but i've seen the android bivouac Oct 24 03:06:54 monkey boys are definitely in the facility Oct 24 03:07:13 lol Oct 24 03:08:55 one thing i haven't figured is how to select text. yes i am guilty of not reading the manual Oct 24 03:09:05 shift+trackball Oct 24 03:09:09 hold down shift Oct 24 03:09:10 shift+trackball Oct 24 03:09:10 or long press on the text field Oct 24 03:09:19 okay romainguy im open to brainstorming about this home/widget thing Oct 24 03:09:21 It's a test of skill Oct 24 03:09:28 lets create a second homescreen that is /just/ for widgets Oct 24 03:09:34 so they still get option when they hit home Oct 24 03:09:37 Can I do shift + tap/double tap to select the whole line/area? Oct 24 03:09:45 I'm sure Romain will be delighted to work on yet another home screen Oct 24 03:09:48 and keep nasty permissions out of there, so we dont need to wory about them doing malicious things Oct 24 03:09:53 He could do it in his sleep (hell, I'm sure he did) Oct 24 03:10:03 umdk1d3: that's definitely not the way to go :) Oct 24 03:10:04 how many did we end up going through? Oct 24 03:10:11 that I know of Oct 24 03:10:16 4 or 5 Oct 24 03:10:19 so probably more Oct 24 03:10:35 okay, brave folks who want to try a g1 build externally will want to grab http://frotz.net/misc/local_manifest.xml and drop it in their .reop Oct 24 03:10:38 er .repo Oct 24 03:10:50 any way using g1 to detect orientatino of phone relatvei to ground? Oct 24 03:10:51 goodness gracious Oct 24 03:11:00 any gyroscope or anything? Oct 24 03:11:09 theCarpenter: depends on the orientation of the ground Oct 24 03:11:30 accelerometer does that, more or less Oct 24 03:11:31 and on which planet you are doing this on Oct 24 03:11:44 cbeust_: we got that covered with our constants Oct 24 03:11:51 So I saw Oct 24 03:12:04 hmm mars needs a gps satellite constellation Oct 24 03:12:05 I didn't see the gravity constant for Azeroth, though Oct 24 03:12:07 I'll file a bug Oct 24 03:12:36 and you would then need a universal positioning system to tell what planet ur on Oct 24 03:12:39 hmm Oct 24 03:12:49 i wonder if the black gate would screw up reception Oct 24 03:14:42 anyone know if there are some android images that can be used freely for developing community sites and stuff? Oct 24 03:20:22 d03boy: you mean something like this maybe? Oct 24 03:21:19 yup Oct 24 03:21:38 so Oct 24 03:21:42 utilities Oct 24 03:22:03 since the basic unix utilities don't really work, is there a purpose to start porting some of them over? Oct 24 03:22:11 grep, sed, cat, et al f.ex Oct 24 03:22:49 can you ssh on android? Oct 24 03:23:34 theCarpenter: you'd likely want busybox, for one Oct 24 03:23:41 theCarpenter: beyond that, ::shrug:: Oct 24 03:23:49 d03boy: also Oct 24 03:24:01 I don't see myself doing shell stuff on the phone other than as a novelty Oct 24 03:24:22 theCarpenter, are you making a terminal app by chance? Oct 24 03:24:43 * danfuzz looks forward to a self-hosted android dev environment. go go squinty-eyed-emacs! Oct 24 03:25:11 Androidz: That was the plan, but it looks like it'll be easier to throw some tiny GUI on it instead Oct 24 03:26:43 basically just some simple file upload via post program; syntax would be something like: Oct 24 03:26:43 fupload fname myname@mywebsite.com -p mypass Oct 24 03:27:57 theCarpenter, aww :( I was hoping to see a full on terminal Oct 24 03:28:10 Androidz: ooooh lol, no Oct 24 03:29:33 i think people forget that android at the end of the day is a *phone* platform tbh Oct 24 03:29:45 and there's only so much people will care to do on it Oct 24 03:29:49 it's better than my old phone for voice Oct 24 03:30:13 i dont want a phone Oct 24 03:30:15 i already have a phone Oct 24 03:30:18 lol Oct 24 03:30:19 i want an IM Oct 24 03:30:25 and web surfing computer in my pocket Oct 24 03:30:39 ...asus eee? Oct 24 03:30:39 which is why I wish it had the dual touch Oct 24 03:30:50 asus eee hmmm Oct 24 03:31:15 too big lol Oct 24 03:31:58 theCarpenter, I havent forgetten and I think you are undersetimating the phone... Oct 24 03:32:14 thanks you d03boy Oct 24 03:33:50 hm, anyone know of a tutorial for creating a static list view Oct 24 03:34:10 sort of like the API Demos app's list Oct 24 03:37:21 d03boy, I would LOVE to see that irc client for Android hit the market :) Oct 24 03:37:24 wonder how difficult it would be to create an app that saves a whole call Oct 24 03:38:01 working on it :) Oct 24 03:38:13 im surprised you recognized me Oct 24 03:38:24 and then indexes calls by number and date etc, and lets you play them back later Oct 24 03:39:33 d03boy, :) Oct 24 03:39:53 d03boy, I know all the developers in here... well most. Well not KNOW, but know of :0 Oct 24 03:40:00 nice Oct 24 03:40:14 do you develop? Oct 24 03:40:15 I like to know who creates what :) and im stoked for the IRC Oct 24 03:40:36 d03boy, more less. I play around with it Oct 24 03:40:56 d03boy, I started learning, I have just been side tracked Oct 24 03:41:03 i know what you mean Oct 24 03:41:23 i made an app where you throw the handset into the air and catch it and it tells you how long it was in the air Oct 24 03:41:45 wastrel, haha :) Oct 24 03:41:56 haha cool Oct 24 03:41:59 wastrel: didn't that dude from google create that Oct 24 03:42:02 wastrel, does it work nicely? Oct 24 03:42:10 Here is a challenge: use the device so it can tell you your weight Oct 24 03:42:27 I am a newb, but how would I go about creating a terminal for Android? I would love to do that Oct 24 03:42:35 how about my bmi Oct 24 03:43:09 cbeust, maybe by height and dimensions? Oct 24 03:43:24 Androidz: plug your phone in and run adb shell, you'll see why such an app is pointless Oct 24 03:43:27 I don't have an answer, I was just wondering if it's possible Oct 24 03:43:39 the phone's linux space is "locked down" for security purposes. there is hardly any useful operation you could do Oct 24 03:43:41 cbeust, dont think so Oct 24 03:44:11 we'll put you on the end of a long rope of known length Oct 24 03:44:14 jasta, k Oct 24 03:44:32 jasta, ooohhh Oct 24 03:44:39 thats dumb, isnt it open source? Oct 24 03:44:41 :) Oct 24 03:44:47 and on the other end a reference mass of known weight Oct 24 03:44:50 then spin them Oct 24 03:45:04 measure how long it takes to get up to 100rpm Oct 24 03:45:28 jasta, if not a terminal, how about a way of making a small telnet app? Oct 24 03:46:16 cbeust: nice idea Oct 24 03:46:29 but the user's have to stand on top on G1 ;) Oct 24 03:46:35 Androidz, there is already a ssh client you can download - google connectbot Oct 24 03:46:58 gambler, I saw that last night. I didnt know it was ready for dl Oct 24 03:47:28 the G1 has a weight sensor? Oct 24 03:48:56 gambler, no, it was a suggestion Oct 24 03:49:00 to make one :) Oct 24 03:49:59 Androidz: there's an ssh client, connectbot. don't use telnet for any purpose or i will personally kill you Oct 24 03:50:00 I think the chumby has a squeeze sensor Oct 24 03:50:22 aka a large button on the top :P Oct 24 03:50:26 "chumby" Oct 24 03:50:56 I suppose a button is a "squeeze sensor" :) Oct 24 03:50:59 oh its discrete not continuous? thats a little less interesting Oct 24 03:50:59 if i SSH to the g1 what is username and password? Oct 24 03:51:06 just root? with no pass? Oct 24 03:51:08 is there a porting effort for the chumby yet? Oct 24 03:51:26 I had a pre-production one, so I dunno if any hw changes were made, but I doubt it Oct 24 03:51:42 mo0620: think again. you can't access root, there is only a user account which probably has no password that has absolutely no rights to anything useful Oct 24 03:52:17 mo0620: plug your device in and run adb shell. explore as you'd like, but you quickly see how useless it is Oct 24 03:52:31 google rooted my phone Oct 24 03:52:38 hawt Oct 24 03:52:39 ah i see. i did alot of ssh in the iphone jailbreaking days Oct 24 03:53:00 we need Root access! so we can let the customization begin Oct 24 03:53:21 Guys, twitter is already up right? Oct 24 03:53:25 mo0620: well, then find a way to jailbreak it Oct 24 03:53:29 Where in applications is it Oct 24 03:53:31 jasta, lol Oct 24 03:53:41 it is possible, certainly. someone just has to find out where the weakness is. Oct 24 03:53:51 jasta: lol na i would not know how to do that Oct 24 03:54:02 well, then there's your answer :) Oct 24 03:54:17 i just wait for the awesome devs to do it lol Oct 24 03:54:47 in the mean time perhaps you could learn Java and start hacking on something more useful :) Oct 24 03:55:18 jasta: are you sending in patches already? Oct 24 03:55:33 muthu: preparing my first actually Oct 24 03:55:38 cool Oct 24 03:55:47 i'm yet to check it out Oct 24 03:55:50 i'm trying to submit IMAP IDLE support for code review this weekend Oct 24 03:55:57 haven't been to work for some days now ;) Oct 24 03:56:03 and i think Romain might be the reviewer, ohh, exciting ;) Oct 24 03:56:28 jasta, you should install some WTFs first Oct 24 03:56:39 what's WTF? Oct 24 03:56:40 Why do I have my phone NEXT to my wireless AP, and its 2 bars? Oct 24 03:56:41 If there's no sandbox, what limitations to access are there that you'd need root access? Oct 24 03:56:43 WTF! Oct 24 03:56:57 Aleksey, there are deadspots if you're close maybe? Oct 24 03:57:03 why do i have 4 bars of 3g and no web connectivit Oct 24 03:57:04 deadspots? Oct 24 03:57:04 Aleksey: ive noticed that the wi-fi radio is pretty weak in the g1. not excellent service, but certainly better htan you're seeing. Oct 24 03:57:06 y Oct 24 03:57:14 wifi sucks on this thing Oct 24 03:57:26 router is next to me Oct 24 03:57:26 Aleksey, what router doyou use Oct 24 03:57:38 are you going to suggest its my router..? Oct 24 03:57:40 Aleksey: well, certainly your router is to blame as well. Oct 24 03:57:44 Aleksey, certainly Oct 24 03:57:45 umm Oct 24 03:57:48 but yes, the g1's wi-fi radio is weak. Oct 24 03:57:48 My laptop is full bars Oct 24 03:57:51 again, not as weak as you are seeing. Oct 24 03:57:59 Aleksey, do you use broadcom card in your laptop? It can cause interference Oct 24 03:58:04 my 3 year old HP pda is full bars Oct 24 03:58:18 what router? Oct 24 03:58:19 : Oct 24 03:58:22 how does the g1's wifi radio compare to the ipod touch's? anyone know? Oct 24 03:58:29 cisco catalyst Oct 24 03:58:30 WEP or WPA? Oct 24 03:58:33 open. Oct 24 03:58:42 anyone know if there are any devs working on a virtual keyboard? i know in the android roadmap they said possibly q1 of 2009, but i was wondering if there was anything unofficially being worked on Oct 24 03:59:01 sounds like an exercise in redundancy Oct 24 03:59:22 mo0620: i believe that they are. Oct 24 03:59:29 they have commented a couple of times about such a thing Oct 24 03:59:43 apparently yes they are according to the comment on the blog post i read :] Oct 24 03:59:48 that would be sweet! i do not even need auto correction lol, i just want a virtual keyboard Oct 24 03:59:50 100% confirmed in other words Oct 24 03:59:57 wastrel: which blog? Oct 24 04:01:40 heh Oct 24 04:01:44 iphone.facebook.com works Oct 24 04:01:54 http://htcsource.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=407&Itemid=1 Oct 24 04:02:26 thanks Oct 24 04:03:12 sweet connect bot and irssi ;) Oct 24 04:04:08 anyone want to make a logo for IRCell? Oct 24 04:04:50 what you looking for d03boy Oct 24 04:07:52 im starting to think the better strategy for IRC is to just use a bounce and a native IRC client on the phone Oct 24 04:08:07 i originally thought ssh+screen would be the way to go, but after trying it, im not sure Oct 24 04:09:25 people just want to be connected all the time Oct 24 04:09:40 how much are you paying for G1 service monthly? Oct 24 04:09:57 f00f-: me? $50+$25 per month for voice+data. Oct 24 04:10:11 is the $25 an unlimnited plan? Oct 24 04:10:17 unlimited data, 400 sms Oct 24 04:10:22 ok Oct 24 04:10:30 what does the $50 get you? Oct 24 04:10:34 i use e-mail instead of SMS a lot tho, as most of my friends have smartphones Oct 24 04:10:50 600 minutes + unlimited N+W/E + myfaves Oct 24 04:10:50 what are .war files? Oct 24 04:10:55 ah cool Oct 24 04:11:02 Androidz: web application archive Oct 24 04:11:05 make .love not .war Oct 24 04:12:28 * jasta is excited to make his first commit to the android tree :) Oct 24 04:12:44 gratz Oct 24 04:13:10 jasta: now you can make romainguy work :) Oct 24 04:13:25 f00f-, thanks, are they installable on the Android? Oct 24 04:13:49 hrm i should irc from the phone to improve my thumbtyping Oct 24 04:13:53 he'll probably reject my patches just to be ornery. Oct 24 04:15:38 Androidz: umm, they're meant for java app servers Oct 24 04:15:45 i hear there's a port of jetty to android Oct 24 04:15:48 which ain't hard Oct 24 04:15:51 so yeah why not Oct 24 04:16:01 just use your brain and common sense in running a servlet container on a mobile phone Oct 24 04:16:11 Ijetty Oct 24 04:16:56 hmm... I wonder though about that - even if Jetty will run I doubt it would be able to deploy war files because it's not like dalvik can run java class files Oct 24 04:17:19 ok yeah probably not deploy Oct 24 04:17:24 For e-mail client is there an option to only download todays messages? Oct 24 04:17:25 don't even think about it Oct 24 04:17:45 why? Oct 24 04:17:53 I don't even know if it would even run anything that used compiled dependencies - maybe it could compile jsp pages or something - or serve static files Oct 24 04:18:05 but I'd be surprised if it could even serve up JSP pages Oct 24 04:18:43 if you compile everything in Oct 24 04:18:53 with no dynamic/hot deployment Oct 24 04:18:54 sure Oct 24 04:19:55 The G1 has a speakerphone, right? Oct 24 04:20:05 crappy one i hear Oct 24 04:20:06 i hope so, cause i just ordered two Oct 24 04:20:14 :( Oct 24 04:20:18 its on the back and a review said its hard to hear Oct 24 04:20:26 but... you're supposed to set them on a hard surface and they vibrate the surface Oct 24 04:20:28 not sure if he realized that Oct 24 04:20:36 Ah, gotcha Oct 24 04:22:47 whats going on with downloading some .apk's thats arent deploying? Oct 24 04:25:24 T-mobile is seriously pissing me off... I ordered a G1 online two days ago and I still haven't gotten a single confirmation email or anything indicating when I should even expect it Oct 24 04:26:23 I'm guessing it's the batch of the November 10th group - but if I haven't heard anything from them in a day or two I'm going to call them up and cancel it Oct 24 04:27:26 Are they sold out in stores now? Oct 24 04:27:32 anyone familiar with the Android ListView? Oct 24 04:29:20 tweakt - they didn't stock any in stores in my area Oct 24 04:29:23 so suppose i tweak the platform itself - is there some way to reflect those changes in the emulator? Oct 24 04:29:31 like say i modify the package manager f.ex Oct 24 04:29:38 RyeBrye, why not go into the store? Oct 24 04:29:52 RyeBrye, what area? Oct 24 04:29:54 Utah Oct 24 04:30:10 Not a 3G coverage area - and none of the stores in Utah apparently are going to have them Oct 24 04:30:20 ahh Oct 24 04:31:13 RyeBrye: Do you go to BYU by any chance? Oct 24 04:32:26 Anyone try RingDroid yet? Oct 24 04:32:30 pretty sick Oct 24 04:32:41 Androidz: what it do? Oct 24 04:33:05 It's even in the Android Rap Song! Oct 24 04:33:26 muthu, lets you create your own ringtone on the phone with songs Oct 24 04:33:34 hrm Oct 24 04:33:49 Androidz: nice Oct 24 04:36:25 muthu, ya, you can get it from the google code Oct 24 04:38:34 * waldo_ is back (gone 02:27:29) Oct 24 04:39:47 is there a way to download web pages or ebooks to sd for offline reading? Oct 24 04:39:56 some people take the subway to work Oct 24 04:40:10 RyeBrye: I never got any sort of a confirmation that my order went through, just frantically checked the UPS tracking site by reference until my package came up. Oct 24 04:41:12 RyeBrye: the speakerphone works fine Oct 24 04:41:13 androidz what's ringdroid Oct 24 04:42:46 theCarpenter1 - no, but I did Oct 24 04:42:56 Lenolium - when did you place your order, and when did it show up in the tracking system? Oct 24 04:44:59 connectbot has a cute icon Oct 24 04:45:21 waldo_, sorry, it lets you edit songs on Android and and make them ringtones Oct 24 04:45:28 waldo_, you want the link? Oct 24 04:47:08 woo... on my phone Oct 24 04:48:14 RyeBrye: Placed on Oct 2nd, showed up on the 17th. Oct 24 04:48:37 Androidz: how do you edit songs? Oct 24 04:48:45 Lenolium, one sec Oct 24 04:48:55 Has anybody successfully connected to a Wifi AP with a hidden SSID? Oct 24 04:49:44 go here on your phone and download the apk. http://code.google.com/p/ringdroid/downloads/list Oct 24 04:49:47 mo0620: anyone know if there are any devs working on a virtual keyboard? i know in the android roadmap they said possibly q1 of 2009, but i was wondering if there was anything unofficially being worked on <<< you can't really make a good keyboard without adding tons of framework support Oct 24 04:49:56 which is exactly what we're doing right now Oct 24 04:50:39 lies. romain is actually ircing from a beach somewhere Oct 24 04:51:23 I would highly suggest creating a app on the SoulSeek. http://www.slsknet.org shit would be tight Oct 24 04:52:10 Androidz: Ahh, I got rings Extended... Oct 24 04:53:06 androidz-- to chime in on the talk from a few minutes/hours ago-- there IS a telnet client but dont' use telnet Oct 24 04:54:06 Lenolium, oh, is that the same thing? Oct 24 04:54:35 waldo_, whats it called? Ive tried using one out there alrady but did not work Oct 24 04:54:48 chrismurf: hmm... I certainly haven't, and playing around, it seems like it might not work Oct 24 04:55:16 chrismurf: I presume you did "Add a Wi-Fi network," and now when you tap it, the phone asks you if you want to Forget it? Oct 24 04:56:25 damn internet keeps cutting in and out Oct 24 04:57:19 haha, the SSID of one of my neighbors: WHYdoALLofYOUhaveSECUREDnetwork Oct 24 04:57:36 androidz lemme find it Oct 24 04:58:06 caveat-- i have not tried it -- http://www.zatelnet.com/gphone/main.php Oct 24 04:58:44 haha Oct 24 04:58:59 gdsx: I enter it all in, and eventually it shows up as a node that it can see Oct 24 04:59:38 but when I tap it and say "connect" it immediately goes back down the list and says "Not in Range, Remembered" Oct 24 05:00:06 has anyone had any success with hacking the platform itself yet? my main concern right now is trying to simulate modifications to the platform in the emulator... at least to the extent that it's possible Oct 24 05:00:15 so, it sorta sees it, but doesn't seem to be able to connect Oct 24 05:00:22 everthing i'm seeing is about application development, not about platform hacking itself Oct 24 05:01:00 chrismurf: ok Oct 24 05:01:00 theCarpenter1 the source for teh whole platform is out... what to hack? Oct 24 05:01:06 chrismurf: b.android.com :o) Oct 24 05:01:21 :-) Oct 24 05:02:08 waldo_: well yes... i mean i'm trying to modify some parts of the platform itself, namely the package manager Oct 24 05:02:16 gdsx: I'll try logcatting Oct 24 05:02:42 waldo_: and i want to see if there's any way to view or simulate any potential modifications other than actually putting them on a physical phone Oct 24 05:02:47 remote: Compressing objects: 100% (125364/125364), done. Oct 24 05:02:47 fatal: pack has bad object at offset 170301448: inflate returned -3 Oct 24 05:02:47 fatal: index-pack failed Oct 24 05:02:47 error: Cannot fetch kernel/common Oct 24 05:02:51 I think I saw an on-phone logcat at one point -- anybody know the name? Oct 24 05:02:56 what does that mean? oops, sorry about the many lines. Oct 24 05:03:29 hello everyone, anything super cool happen today in the android world? Oct 24 05:03:45 i held my first g1 today (non workign demo at tmobile store) Oct 24 05:04:23 outbriber: everything's been getting slashdotted because of the initial flood of people... just keep doing repo sync every few minutes until it works.. that's what eventually worked for me @_@ Oct 24 05:04:29 chrismurf: there isn't one on production devices, unless you're talking about an app of some sort Oct 24 05:04:48 thought I saw an app someplace Oct 24 05:04:56 chrismurf: dunno then Oct 24 05:05:20 theCarpenter1: okay, thanks man Oct 24 05:09:38 romainguy: for what device? dzo has had virtual keyboard in the kernel for vogue Oct 24 05:11:48 whats the easiest way to add wallpaper to the G1 Oct 24 05:12:06 I've got a question regarding network connectivity and the G1. Oct 24 05:12:44 Say for instance I am able to connect to the internet via EDGE or 3G and 802.11. Oct 24 05:13:12 Does Android allow me to choose how I wish to connect? Oct 24 05:14:47 batteryface, i believe only 3g or your network Oct 24 05:14:58 gdsx: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1041 Oct 24 05:15:06 d03boy, where might I go to learn how to create something like ircell? Oct 24 05:15:23 or can anyone tell me where I might go to learn to code Android? Oct 24 05:15:24 anyone know of an aim app for android besides the built in one? Oct 24 05:15:38 After_Math, I want to know whether I can disable the ability to communicate via 3G. I only want to connect through Wifi as any other way would cost me. Oct 24 05:15:51 newbie question: is there a way to either put a new kernel onto the G1, or get root on it? Oct 24 05:16:06 no. bootloader is locked. :( Oct 24 05:16:17 huh. Oct 24 05:16:19 Google likes it that way, they want to focus on you writing apps at the higher level that will translate to other devices Oct 24 05:16:25 batteryface, I wouldnt say disable 3g, because for the phone to work (for now) you need to have the data plan Oct 24 05:16:39 But for browsing? Oct 24 05:16:45 well, i'm less interested in what Google wants, and more what I want to use my phone for. Oct 24 05:16:48 if you dont' know what a bootloader is, you shouldn't be thinking of putting a new kernel on an embeded device in the first place Oct 24 05:16:51 I'd only like to use Wifi for something like that. Oct 24 05:17:13 batteryface, ya you can. You just enable wireless, it switches from 3g to your wireless connection Oct 24 05:17:16 well, that's very disappointing. Oct 24 05:17:18 Yes, I know Oct 24 05:17:25 when I get mine I'm going to start trying to hack away at it Oct 24 05:17:31 I'm sure others will at all Oct 24 05:18:07 well i have one here, which i bought on the understanding that this was an open phone. Huh. Oct 24 05:18:35 Well, it's open in the sense that the source code for the OS is released Oct 24 05:18:36 welllp, i'm sure it will be cracked, but i'd like to actually have a lawfully open phone Oct 24 05:19:03 yes, but i can't actually *run* that open source code on my own phone. That means the code is open, but the phone is not. Oct 24 05:19:12 Then buy an Open Moko phone - the neo Free Runner Oct 24 05:19:23 After_Math, I wouldn't want my email syncing on the 3G or anything though, as that would cost me. Oct 24 05:19:24 that one IS totally open, and has been out a while Oct 24 05:19:43 is there any way of having wider permissions than the adb shell user account? Oct 24 05:19:54 and I think can almost dial phone numbers and send SMS Oct 24 05:20:06 batteryface, I dont understand what you are saying by "as it would cost me". As far as I have been told, you can use the G1 without the data plan Oct 24 05:21:01 malaclyps, RyeBrye: note Oct 24 05:21:03 23:10:35 < swetland> okay, brave folks who want to try a g1 build externally will want to grab http://frotz.net/misc/local_manifest.xml and drop it in their .reop Oct 24 05:21:58 ? that xml file just has info about the HTC dream ? Oct 24 05:22:15 gdsx: ?? Oct 24 05:22:21 it maps in an additional sub-project that provides a build target for dream Oct 24 05:22:26 chrismurf: hmm? Oct 24 05:22:36 is that for testing the G1 build on eclipse? Oct 24 05:22:40 what's that manifest do Oct 24 05:22:46 ( / allow) Oct 24 05:23:07 chrismurf: see what swetland just said Oct 24 05:23:17 it drops into the android 1.0 tree and allows you to build an image for g1 Oct 24 05:23:39 I see - but you still can't install it on the G1, no? Oct 24 05:23:40 note that production g1s do not have a way for you to flash that image, so it is not perfect Oct 24 05:23:41 i don't see what this has to do with what we were talking about -- can you clarify, gdsx? Oct 24 05:23:44 I see Oct 24 05:23:50 Oct 24 05:23:50 that's the entire contents of that file... ? Oct 24 05:23:55 yes Oct 24 05:23:57 malaclyps: oh, you're still talking about the bootloader? Oct 24 05:24:01 it allows you to generate an image for the G1 Oct 24 05:24:05 Good things come in small XML files. Oct 24 05:24:08 we just have no way to get it on the G1 yet :-) Oct 24 05:24:10 it adds a mapping for an additional repository Oct 24 05:24:14 which repo sync will pull down Oct 24 05:24:18 fadden0: aww man... it should be java Oct 24 05:24:20 which has more stuff in it Oct 24 05:24:27 Ahhh - gotcha Oct 24 05:24:30 fadden: nothing good comes of xml files Oct 24 05:24:33 Ok, now things make more sense :) Oct 24 05:24:39 fadden: but I grit my teeth and make the best of it ^^ Oct 24 05:26:14 gdsx: just to summarise, this would let you pull down extra files that would allow you to build a full kernel and system for the G1 Oct 24 05:26:25 malaclyps: it should Oct 24 05:26:32 and you put the XML file... Oct 24 05:26:32 gdsx: but there's no known way to actually flash that onto the G1 itself Oct 24 05:26:44 gdsx: is this a GIT file? or something else? Oct 24 05:27:02 in the repo... Oct 24 05:27:08 malaclyps: it goes in .repo/manifests/, I think Oct 24 05:27:18 or maybe just .repo/ Oct 24 05:27:26 I'm guessing the bootloader is probably cryptographically signed, no? Oct 24 05:27:30 any knowledge about that? Oct 24 05:27:43 malaclyps: true, there's no way (yet?) to flash the thing wholesale Oct 24 05:27:53 ~/.repoconfig Oct 24 05:28:01 just in .repo Oct 24 05:28:34 swetland: ooh, we should start calling .repo/manifest.xml "the repoman" Oct 24 05:29:09 I hacked my camera's firmware manually by using an exploit to cause it to execute arbitrary code - and then blinking out the entire firmware in 0's and 1's on the autofocus LED - read in by a photo transistor attached to a sound cable plugged into my microphone port - and then put back into 0's and 1's... Oct 24 05:29:25 Then disassembled the ARM9 code in it and worked on porting CHDK to it... Oct 24 05:29:34 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 24 05:29:35 I'm pretty sure having a whole OS at my disposal should make this a lot easier Oct 24 05:29:45 RyeBrye: I really hope you're kidding Oct 24 05:29:48 rye: one of my favorite tricks along those lines was how they extracted the rom from the GBA Oct 24 05:29:49 No, I really did that Oct 24 05:30:21 RyeBrye: that's going in my quotefile :o) Oct 24 05:30:23 Although I think that Google engineers are probably smarter than Canon engineers - and probably have more incentive to protect the parts you aren't supposed to get access to Oct 24 05:30:25 could not directly read it, but used the swi call for audio dma to dma the contents into readable memory Oct 24 05:30:27 gdsx :) Oct 24 05:30:42 swetland - that's cool Oct 24 05:30:44 RyeBrye: the bootloader isn't ours Oct 24 05:31:14 Ahh... well I don't think HTC is all that bright, so maybe there is hope Oct 24 05:31:57 somebody will crack it, I'm sure Oct 24 05:32:41 there's a lot of code running on the critter. you only need to screw up once. mind you, we certainly try our best to get it right and usually aren't total idiots. ^^ Oct 24 05:32:42 Are there any take-apart image series of the guts of the G1 out yet? Or do people just do that for apple products? Oct 24 05:32:59 I totally want to see teardowns for G1 Oct 24 05:33:09 I would like to start developing apps for android, but unclear on where to go from the hello world page on the google android website. Can anyone point me in the right direction?Not sure where to go from here Oct 24 05:33:12 I'm mostly interested in how easy it is to take apart / poot back together Oct 24 05:33:15 err put Oct 24 05:33:17 man, just for once i'd like to have a phone where you didn't have to find buffer overflows to run your own code Oct 24 05:33:18 I mean, I could take some pictures, but that's totally cheating ^^ Oct 24 05:33:39 No, not cheating! :) Oct 24 05:34:15 hey can i quote you on the blog piece I'm going to write on this, RyeBrye --- anonymously, if you want :) Oct 24 05:34:37 Sure, if you want... quoting the firmware dumping piece? Oct 24 05:34:42 yeah! Oct 24 05:34:46 RyeBrye: yeah :o) Oct 24 05:35:25 I can point you to the CHDK wikia pieces that talk about it in detail... It took about 6 hours to blink the 4 megabyte firmware IIRC - it was going at a really slow bitrate to get very visible '0's' and '1's on the audio Oct 24 05:35:27 RyeBrye: so, how do you find a buffer overflow on a camera? Oct 24 05:35:54 gdsx - if only it were that hard... Oct 24 05:36:10 should i attribute it to RyeBrye, or not? Oct 24 05:36:16 If you want, fine Oct 24 05:36:19 gdsx, i take it you don't want attribution :) Oct 24 05:36:41 gdsx - the canons have a magic mode on them - if you write 'BOOTABLE' on byte 40 of the disk partition, then it will be a 'bootable' SD card - and it will boot off of that Oct 24 05:36:44 malaclyps: likely not Oct 24 05:37:01 RyeBrye: ::nod:: Oct 24 05:37:04 and it will read and execute a binary file called "diskboot.bin" (but only if the SD card is locked) Oct 24 05:37:10 anyway, I'm hoping well see developer devices available in the not too distant future Oct 24 05:37:11 malaclyps: what about, though? Oct 24 05:37:17 s/well/we'll/ Oct 24 05:37:18 swetland meant: anyway, I'm hoping we'll see developer devices available in the not too distant future Oct 24 05:37:33 * gdsx shoots infobot again Oct 24 05:37:52 RyeBrye: cool, you ever think about using rockbox kernel on those? Oct 24 05:38:03 So at that point, it's just a matter of finding the memory address that maps to an LED blinking function - which involves scanning a lot of memory regions and writing a 1 on those Oct 24 05:38:12 no subsidy, but no lockdown sorta deal. apps developers have what they need, but open source purists, hobbiests, and system hackers obviously want to be able to blow away everything and replace with their own build Oct 24 05:38:30 tmzt - I thought about it - and it would be doable - but to get it to work as a camera still woudl be tough. CHDK works by loading patches to system functions in memory at boot time. Oct 24 05:39:05 so the it just latches on to the camera's existing firmware kind of like Venom and Spiderman Oct 24 05:39:12 only a bit more altruistically I suppose :) Oct 24 05:39:16 haha Oct 24 05:39:21 yeah, and I know their mission statement. more of a someday thing when all phones are truely open Oct 24 05:40:20 I may have been one of the last "LED blinkers" - since shortly afterwards some people found some magic functions they could scan for that would write the firmware to an SD card directly - which is obviously a much faster way of doing it... but much less street cred IMO :) Oct 24 05:42:00 alright - I'm enjoying the war stories, but need to sleep Oct 24 05:42:07 gnight all ;-) Oct 24 05:42:10 night Oct 24 05:42:14 night Oct 24 05:42:15 I have never blinked an led in anger Oct 24 05:42:18 :) Oct 24 05:42:43 hahahahaha Oct 24 05:43:10 Although - in case you are wondering - flashing the LED on a camera a few thousand times in a second exceeds some hardware limits... makes a loud noise... and burns the bulb out... dont' ask how I know... :/ Oct 24 05:43:21 Err - not the LED - the Flash I mean Oct 24 05:43:42 interesting... dose the android emulator not simulate the package manager's operation? Oct 24 05:44:47 malaclyps: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Porting_the_CHDK describes the LED blinking process that was probably used / perfected over the process of dumping the firmware of about two dozen cameras or so Oct 24 05:45:04 theCarpenter1: if by "package manager" you mean "Market", then no, not currently Oct 24 05:52:31 Any word on a Process Manager? Oct 24 05:53:33 After_Math: Why do you want one of those? Apps just get killed magically when you run out of ram. Oct 24 05:54:16 I thought I read a review that some background apps will suck down battery and the only way to kill them is to hard reboot the phone Oct 24 05:57:13 Lenolium, to close any running apps Oct 24 05:57:34 Lenolium, even thought they dont use any battery power in the background, i would still like to close them Oct 24 06:02:03 swetland: so is there any path from the HTC dream build back onto the physical device? Oct 24 06:02:30 hey morrildl Oct 24 06:03:42 rwhitby: not on current production tmo g1 devices Oct 24 06:04:07 bootloader only loads signed code I expect ... Oct 24 06:04:09 though I'm sure people are hard at work trying to hack things Oct 24 06:04:53 swetland: does buildspec.mk go at the top-level or in the build subdir? Oct 24 06:05:47 top level Oct 24 06:06:11 we'll be getting this into a more official project soon, with some more organized notes Oct 24 06:06:24 nah, this way is more fun :-) Oct 24 06:06:26 one of the purposes of it is to show how to configure builds for different bards Oct 24 06:06:30 er boards Oct 24 06:06:48 * rwhitby imagines shakespeare running Android ... Oct 24 06:06:50 which should be helpful for folks working on ports to other devices Oct 24 06:07:07 top-level Oct 24 06:07:26 dont listen to jham_'s lies Oct 24 06:08:02 geist: I'm not lying, just late :-P Oct 24 06:37:57 i wrote a little about the lack of root on the G1: let me know if this doesn't sound right to folks: http://www.oblomovka.com/wp/2008/10/23/the-t-mobile-g1-nice-phone-not-totally-open/ Oct 24 06:38:33 i hope it's fair Oct 24 06:39:50 depends what you're looking for really Oct 24 06:40:11 "So, as is so often the case, those who want to use their own code on their own phone" << that depends on what code you're talking about Oct 24 06:40:16 you can install your apps :) Oct 24 06:40:18 if you want unrestricted app installation out of the box without having to thwart some security, I think the G1 has an advantage ^^ Oct 24 06:40:39 it also depends on what you mean by "open" Oct 24 06:40:43 if you want root access and to muck about with the filesystem, hacked iphones have the current advantage Oct 24 06:40:48 I for one am certainly glad my phone has no root access ^^ Oct 24 06:41:05 or hey, that neo freerunner thing Oct 24 06:41:05 nah.. i want root :) Oct 24 06:41:18 i will hack my G1 .. somehow, someone will ;) Oct 24 06:41:28 root access is a must Oct 24 06:42:02 why should a mobile device be any different than a pc? Oct 24 06:42:06 does the g1 require USB 2.0 for Debugging and SD card access? Oct 24 06:42:40 swetland: it's true! Oct 24 06:42:45 systm: I don't think so Oct 24 06:43:12 romainguy: the apps are in a sandbox, so that's a bit like saying you can run any app you want on this internet browser booth Oct 24 06:43:24 er ok Oct 24 06:43:26 whatever :) Oct 24 06:43:29 :) Oct 24 06:43:32 I'm curious to see if somebody actually finds a useful bootloader or local root exploit before developer devices are available. always fun to watch. Oct 24 06:43:50 swetland: the race is on Oct 24 06:43:52 gdsx: any particular driver i need for linux kernel config? Oct 24 06:43:54 * romainguy wants a chan of users who develop apps, not of über geeks :p Oct 24 06:44:04 anyway Oct 24 06:44:06 good night Oct 24 06:44:11 systm: not really Oct 24 06:44:24 gdsx its not showing up in lspci Oct 24 06:44:37 systm: hmm... what kernel version? Oct 24 06:45:09 systm: actually, you might need usbserial Oct 24 06:45:21 gdsx: damn i thought i had everything compiled Oct 24 06:45:58 systm: actually, no, it doesn't look like usbserial does anything Oct 24 06:46:00 2.6.25-gentoo-r8 Oct 24 06:46:11 (I have a couple random USB thingies, so I forget which wants what) Oct 24 06:47:01 gdsx i will check my config Oct 24 06:47:05 systm: oh, wait Oct 24 06:47:10 systm: does it show up in `lsusb`? Oct 24 06:47:18 dont have Oct 24 06:47:29 systm: cat /proc/bus/usb/devices Oct 24 06:47:58 romainguy_ try #android-dev ;) Oct 24 06:48:12 muthu: he's gone Oct 24 06:48:38 gdsx: he doesn't sleep :) Oct 24 06:48:59 gdsx: oh it shows up Oct 24 06:49:23 gdsx: i want to mount the sd card, so how do i figure out where it is in /dev/ Oct 24 06:49:48 systm: make sure you enable "Settings->Applications->Development->USB debugging" if you want to use adb Oct 24 06:49:57 systm: `dmesg` Oct 24 06:49:57 gdsx: i did Oct 24 06:50:58 ok.. on /dev/sda1 Oct 24 06:51:49 swetland: it's a good point about the Davlik apps, though, I'll add that Oct 24 06:56:17 gdsx: do i need to configure the android.rules file? Oct 24 06:57:33 systm: depends on permissions, but likely Oct 24 06:57:56 gdsx Oct 24 06:57:59 er Oct 24 06:58:00 ok Oct 24 07:58:58 anyone gotten this? Oct 24 07:58:58 The selected wizard could not be started. Oct 24 07:58:58 Plug-in com.android.ide.eclipse.adt was unable to load class com.android.ide.eclipse.adt.project.internal.NewProjectWizard. Oct 24 07:58:58 com/android/ide/eclipse/adt/project/internal/NewProjectWizard (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0) Oct 24 08:03:50 systm: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/8a89f65e6a4d6c93?pli=1 Oct 24 08:04:23 i actually am dumb and forgot to google, but thank you snp_ Oct 24 08:30:08 * waldo_ is back (gone 03:00:34) Oct 24 08:48:29 snp_, i think i know you from somewhere Oct 24 08:48:56 DarkriftX: you do? Oct 24 08:49:09 you on any other nets? Oct 24 08:49:18 not in many years Oct 24 08:49:21 oh Oct 24 08:49:31 someone else has your exact nick, with the _ and all Oct 24 08:50:04 I usually don't use snp_, but is at work now and don't bother to change to "snp" Oct 24 08:50:13 i c Oct 24 08:50:38 well i guess a 3 letter nick cannot be all that rare Oct 24 08:50:44 * DarkriftX thinks he needs sleep Oct 24 08:51:15 sleep, then work, then a weekend of scouring through android downloads, oh the joy! Oct 24 09:18:21 DarkriftX: how's the site doin? Oct 24 09:18:52 are you getting flooded by hits ;) Oct 24 09:19:08 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 24 09:52:08 i'm getting and unrecognized option : 99999 on make any ideas? Oct 24 09:59:06 landslide http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/os/Process.html Oct 24 10:32:46 languish: this is an error during platform make. Oct 24 10:33:13 it's like "host Java: clearsliver (out/host/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/clearsilver_intermediates/classes) Oct 24 10:33:20 Unrecognized option : 99999999 Oct 24 10:33:43 make: *** [out/host/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/clearsilver_intermediates/javalib.jar] Error 41 Oct 24 10:34:21 landslide, hang out a while longer, someone with more clue than myself will show up eventually Oct 24 10:34:38 i'm building on ubuntu 8.04 Oct 24 10:35:00 i've got JDK 6 too.. not sure if that's a problem. Oct 24 10:35:03 no worries. Oct 24 10:59:24 ah worked it out Oct 24 10:59:46 i just discovered ubuntu's update-alternatives --config java Oct 24 10:59:50 also needs javac Oct 24 11:00:07 i had like 5 versions of java installed, it was trying to build android with eclipse's Oct 24 11:00:53 the java sdk handling in linux is a mess Oct 24 11:01:47 why you think so? Oct 24 11:01:50 muthu: And in Windows, is it any better? Oct 24 11:01:56 agreed Oct 24 11:02:26 there's a lot of people getting stumped by the /etc/alternates/java Oct 24 11:03:37 we need a jdk settings panel :) Oct 24 11:03:52 there's update-alternatives Oct 24 11:04:13 ok, then there it is Oct 24 11:04:13 which indeed doesn't have a GUI, but it's close in functionality to a settings panel Oct 24 11:04:15 hehe Oct 24 11:04:41 wander: oh, and then theres ln -s to set them Oct 24 11:05:00 tric: there's like 20 of these links Oct 24 11:05:43 hmm.. what the hell is git? Oct 24 11:05:56 thought everyone used svn.. hehe Oct 24 11:06:10 yeah i've just discovered there is a whole bunch. Oct 24 11:06:23 plus i'm a java n00b.. so that has a little to do with it ;) Oct 24 11:06:43 landslide: its a common trap Oct 24 11:09:24 muthu: git == linus solution for developing the linux kernel Oct 24 11:09:40 i guess google is using it cause they had to for the kernel part anyway Oct 24 11:09:41 tric: ha, right Oct 24 11:09:59 ok, makes sense Oct 24 11:11:08 can i build android with jdk 6? Oct 24 11:11:16 yes Oct 24 11:11:42 lastly is there a way to force all the /etc/alternatives for java to JDK 6? Oct 24 11:11:52 or do I need to do it individually? Oct 24 11:12:08 step by step Oct 24 11:12:11 afaik Oct 24 11:12:38 that's why i was saying about jdk settings panel Oct 24 11:13:38 yeah it's a PITA. ;) Oct 24 11:13:41 muthu: but you need alternatives for other things aswell. so you really want a jdk, a editor a ... panel? please dont. Oct 24 11:13:52 i've just done ls /etc/alternatives/j* -l Oct 24 11:14:00 and did update-alternatives for each Oct 24 11:14:08 android seems to be building now. Oct 24 11:15:13 congratulations, I hope you have a decent amount of memory installed :) Oct 24 11:15:18 is there a git gui for linux? Oct 24 11:15:26 muthu: probably not Oct 24 11:15:31 muthu: gitk Oct 24 11:15:31 ok Oct 24 11:15:35 since Git is rather new Oct 24 11:15:35 it's ubuntu 32 on esxi. Oct 24 11:15:38 quad core... Oct 24 11:15:40 bull Oct 24 11:15:44 only 1gb allocated though ;) Oct 24 11:15:49 git even comes with a web interface built into the client Oct 24 11:16:06 yeah, gitk Oct 24 11:16:08 landslide: well.. 1GB is tight... better close firefox Oct 24 11:16:19 there's something called gitweb Oct 24 11:16:23 if you have the lighthttpd server installed, you can do git instaweb and a web server will launch Oct 24 11:16:27 BBHoss: oh, things have improved then :) Oct 24 11:16:34 it's at 34% utilization now.. so i'll just monitor it.. how long does the build usually take? Oct 24 11:16:42 couple of hours Oct 24 11:16:56 landslide: do you have a multi-cpu machine? Oct 24 11:17:02 yeah. Oct 24 11:17:04 sorry, quad core :) Oct 24 11:17:24 stop your build and do "make -j 5" instead of just "make" Oct 24 11:17:27 only 2 of them are really used.. Oct 24 11:17:45 it doesn't look like the make does anything in parallel Oct 24 11:17:50 visual studio's pretty cool like that. Oct 24 11:17:58 that will run 5 jobs at the same time Oct 24 11:18:04 ah nice ! ;) Oct 24 11:18:18 but keep an eye on your memory Oct 24 11:18:24 yeah ;) Oct 24 11:19:13 holy sheesh, that did the treat.. 100% on all cores. Oct 24 11:19:15 hehehe Oct 24 11:19:43 yeah, that'll give your machine something to work on :) Oct 24 11:20:06 does the build also put qemu together? Oct 24 11:20:16 dunno Oct 24 11:20:42 i have some windowsce hardware I want to try and port it to.. that's the bigger goal ;) Oct 24 11:21:02 landslide: yeah, it does seem qemu gets build as well Oct 24 11:21:07 nice. Oct 24 11:25:57 thank's for you help guys... ;) Oct 24 11:26:17 is it done? Oct 24 11:29:41 git-gui.. nice Oct 24 11:43:38 landslide: which windows-mobile/ce device are you trying to port to? Oct 24 11:53:14 yeah just finished i think Oct 24 11:53:16 wow that was fast Oct 24 11:53:28 it's actually my companies own hardware. Oct 24 11:53:49 company's i mean .. it's late ;) Oct 24 11:54:30 hi, Buidnign the Android Open Source, I ran into this error: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lX11 Oct 24 11:55:00 but I already have libX11-dev installed on my AMD64 bit system Oct 24 11:57:49 so I saw /usr/lib32/libX11.so.6 is there. Oct 24 11:58:14 landslide: thats cool, i'm working on a getting it running on a blackberry, the only one i have is the 8830 world-phone, but it has a PXA272 ARM processor that SHOULD be able to run Android, especially at 624Mhz Oct 24 11:58:37 anyone know how big the flash file is? Oct 24 12:01:57 -rw------- 1 wander wander 47M 2008-10-23 21:35 system.img Oct 24 12:01:57 -rw------- 1 wander wander 2.0M 2008-10-23 21:31 userdata.img Oct 24 12:02:02 -rw-r--r-- 1 wander wander 134K 2008-10-23 21:32 ramdisk.img Oct 24 12:02:37 so a bit under 60 MB Oct 24 12:03:39 ok kool, it should fit pretty well on the 64MB flash on the phone Oct 24 12:04:10 for now, yes Oct 24 12:04:29 but the G1 has 256 MB reserver for the OS iirc Oct 24 12:04:35 hmm Oct 24 12:04:46 i could probably load it off of an sd card though Oct 24 12:05:46 that might even be able to load the image directly into the memory, but i don't know what kind of protection RIM has on that Oct 24 12:06:10 kind of like how they do it on the HTC phones that have been ported Oct 24 12:06:31 the remote boot thing Oct 24 12:28:50 hi guys, anyone knows how to debug shared library on android? Oct 24 12:32:29 g'day Oct 24 12:46:40 hey guys, I'm trying to hit a webservice when a call comes in... it works on 3g but not edge. Any suggestions? Oct 24 12:47:29 hi * Oct 24 12:47:56 In GSM, that can only be done in base 3G (UMTS), but neither in 2.5G (GPRS/EDGE) nor in higher 3G (HSDPA/HSUPA). Oct 24 12:49:41 even with dtm? Oct 24 12:49:50 i have it working in GPRS, not edge Oct 24 12:50:22 EGPRS fails Oct 24 12:50:35 stupid question: is there any way to re-flash the G-1. I have only just started looking at the Android source. Are there things missing that are needed to re-build the G-1 firmware? Oct 24 12:50:59 At this point I wouldn't count on DTM. Oct 24 12:51:43 why would it work in GPRS but not EGPRS? Oct 24 12:53:31 I'll give a vague answer, of course, "because either the device or the tower doesn't support it with EDGE" - but that's exactly why I wouldn't count on DTM. Oct 24 12:54:06 blah Oct 24 12:54:19 so 3G is the only way to guarantee it works? Oct 24 12:56:50 nope, because in HSDPA it won't (and it won't work on 1xEVDO either, which is cdmaOne 3G). Oct 24 12:59:32 so dtm is hit and miss is what you're saying? Oct 24 12:59:38 yes Oct 24 12:59:42 that sucks Oct 24 12:59:52 yes Oct 24 13:00:12 the only reliable way to do voice+data is to have data go over wifi. Oct 24 13:00:42 (but then you take a double-hit in battery life) Oct 24 13:00:54 yea... that's one way i got my app to work Oct 24 13:02:11 mpardo: what are you doing, making adding something to a web app when someone calls? Is there not a way to do it after the call is finished? Oct 24 13:02:14 that emulator is tricky though because it worked in all casses Oct 24 13:04:23 hi all, i am interested in testing android on an ARM platform. Anyone could recommend a development kit (hardware/board) that I can purchase? Oct 24 13:04:46 t_ubuntu: OMAP Oct 24 13:05:28 OMAP. Thanks, is there a web link to that or should I just Google for OMAP? Oct 24 13:05:35 t_ubuntu: http://elinux.org/Android_on_OMAP#Real_hardware Oct 24 13:06:03 now most of that was written BEFORE the source was released, but if the SDK would run on it i'm sure that you can compile for it :) Oct 24 13:07:35 BBHoss: is this http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tmdxevm3503.html sounds OK? Oct 24 13:08:23 t_ubuntu: i couldn't tell you, i just remember seeing that page the other day Oct 24 13:08:37 although it SHOULD be able to RUN on most archs that run linux Oct 24 13:10:09 BBHoss: thanks for the info. now I need to find $1500 somewhere :) to get this. Oct 24 13:10:12 t_ubuntu: right now i am attempting to load it onto a spare blackberry i have Oct 24 13:10:17 t_ubuntu: just get a G1 Oct 24 13:10:22 much cheaper Oct 24 13:10:55 Can you flash a G1 with custom OS updates? Oct 24 13:11:09 TreyB: no Oct 24 13:11:20 TreyB: eventually with wince? Oct 24 13:11:28 szsoftware: :-) Oct 24 13:11:29 TreyB: not yet Oct 24 13:11:43 you just need to get the bootloader if memory serves me Oct 24 13:11:44 I suspected as much. It depends on what t_ubuntu wants to do. If he just wants real hardware to test his app, the G1 makes sense. Oct 24 13:11:59 oh, actually I am not really thinking of mobile phone. I am looking to build a "general purpose" hand held device with android platform Oct 24 13:12:11 t_ubuntu: the n810 is running it too Oct 24 13:12:13 what for? Oct 24 13:12:32 for general purpose there's other platforms available that also make sense Oct 24 13:12:34 speed probably, android seems faster than maemo Oct 24 13:13:23 Something like the iPod Touch running Android has a certain utility to it, but perhaps not much of a market. Oct 24 13:14:49 hmm iPod touch, good idea. Oct 24 13:14:51 ping kennyz Oct 24 13:15:16 yeah i looked at the touch, there are nearly NO specs for the HW Oct 24 13:15:20 t_ubuntu: well have fun porting android there Oct 24 13:15:30 it IS ARM though, but its a custom apple design, so who knows Oct 24 13:15:55 I meant more as a form-factor/class rather than an actual target. Oct 24 13:16:13 A capable touch device without phone hardware. Oct 24 13:16:57 Is it known that the G1 isn't locked-down against user-created OS updates? Oct 24 13:17:28 Too...many...negatives. Oct 24 13:17:37 linuxstb: I believe it is know that is is locked down. Oct 24 13:18:24 locked how? just "flash procedure currently unknown" or something more deliberate? Oct 24 13:18:27 They open-sourced the stack for hardware vendors, no Joe-the-Programmer. Oct 24 13:18:36 I am looking for an affordable way to have a "practice"/development hardware platform. This is to sharpen up my kernel and cross compiling skill more than anything. Oct 24 13:18:37 Zagor: i think thats accurate Oct 24 13:19:31 TreyB: Wrong. The stack is open, just this particular hardware is not. Oct 24 13:19:35 unless they tivoized it (encrypted) I wouldn't call that "locked down" Oct 24 13:19:44 t_ubuntu: Quite a few ARM gumstick-type systems exist for far less than $1500. Oct 24 13:20:15 Zagor: I haven't seen it yet, but people say the boot loader required signed kernels to boot. Oct 24 13:21:17 xl0: You can certainly put the stack on any hardware you have the specs for, but not many devices with phohe radios with specs available exist. Oct 24 13:21:38 TreyB: is there any particular one that you would recommend? Oct 24 13:21:41 xl0: that is still not a problem unless the bootloader itself is encrypted Oct 24 13:21:53 TreyB: Freerunner. And even if there we no such phones, you hardly could blame Google for it. Oct 24 13:22:03 tomtom's are linux, have bluetooth, and tomtom has a crosscompiler available for their devices Oct 24 13:22:39 http://www.tomtom.com/gpl Oct 24 13:22:55 and www.opentom.org Oct 24 13:25:41 motorola's phones run linux, but not sure how accessible it is Oct 24 13:25:52 thanks all. I think I have enough to go through the whole week end now. Oct 24 13:28:43 t_ubuntu: no recommendations, as I haven't actually used any of them. LinuxDevices.com reviews them from time to time, though. Oct 24 13:29:19 hi, anyone knows how to debug shared library (.so)? Oct 24 13:29:55 ramzez_uk: build it, link it statically and gdb it? Oct 24 13:30:04 xl0: I don't blame Google. I just meant to say that as a practical matter, only (mostly) hardware vendors will change the stack components. Oct 24 13:30:16 Dougie187: around? Oct 24 13:30:27 whee, its gonna be a bug-filin day Oct 24 13:30:41 zagor, no plugin for eclipse to auto switch yet? Oct 24 13:31:10 or maybe xcode? Oct 24 13:31:12 TreyB: I'd say, the only thing that would require significant changes is the Linux kernel. And it is GPL'ed, si they have to open their sources. Oct 24 13:31:35 xl0: what sources? Oct 24 13:31:42 they can allway go NVidia-style on the kernel Oct 24 13:31:51 michaelnovakjr: Their Linux patches. Oct 24 13:32:05 And require signed kernels for flashing the device. Oct 24 13:32:07 Wander_w: You can't add platform support in this way. Oct 24 13:32:12 xl0: who's linux patches? Oct 24 13:32:34 michaelnovakjr: ^^ TreyB> xl0: I don't blame Google. I just meant to say that as a practical matter, only (mostly) hardware vendors will change the stack components. Oct 24 13:32:50 xl0: well, platform patches aren't that interesting.. GSM radio's, wifi and all that sort of things are Oct 24 13:32:51 TreyB: This is a completely unrelated matter. Oct 24 13:32:56 xl0: hardware won't be opened.... and it doesn't have to either Oct 24 13:33:16 yeah the radio will probably never be opened Oct 24 13:33:31 michaelnovakjr: That's what I was talking about. Theese are two unrelated things. Oct 24 13:33:36 the radio is in hardware Oct 24 13:33:49 Not any more. Oct 24 13:33:59 Zagor: right, but you have to have the software to control it Oct 24 13:33:59 Rather, not always. Oct 24 13:34:36 BBHoss: radio interface layer is in git. is it missing something? Oct 24 13:34:58 Zagor: what does it interface to though, the G1's radio? Oct 24 13:35:34 Generally, the RIL presents a standard API for any radio. Oct 24 13:35:58 The radio firmware guys implement the API. Oct 24 13:36:45 I'm not sure about other hardware, but I've heard that the freerunner's gsm chip is operated with AT commands over a serial interface... Oct 24 13:38:32 xl0: that might work Oct 24 13:39:07 as I understand it, the g1's radio stack runs on a separate arm-9 core. it runs qualcomm proprietary code. the android stack talks to it through a shared memory rpc mechanism Oct 24 13:39:40 heh sounds dangerous Oct 24 13:39:44 blount: sounds likely Oct 24 13:40:06 BBHoss: THat's how all modern phones work, actually. Oct 24 13:40:18 there ya go :-) Oct 24 13:40:37 well if everything is AT commands, that should work flawlessly Oct 24 13:40:52 ooh, tethertime! Oct 24 13:41:18 i forget if tmobile's ToS allows for tethering Oct 24 13:41:46 they're usually pretty liberal about what they allow you to do Oct 24 13:42:02 usually they require GSM's CMUX... to support both command and data simultaneously. Oct 24 13:42:15 does RIL do CMUX? Oct 24 13:42:44 I suspect the RIL hides the CMUX details from the rest of the platform. Oct 24 13:43:28 The WinMo RIL does this. Oct 24 13:43:43 yes, ril is pretty high-level. RIL_REQUEST_SEND_SMS etc. Oct 24 13:43:51 Hi, I downloaded a file on the android emulator through my web browser. How do I open it? Oct 24 13:44:47 famast: double-click it Oct 24 13:45:00 how do i get android to build the emulator target? Oct 24 13:45:37 double click it.. I don't know where it is! Oct 24 13:46:00 in the web browser's downloads Oct 24 13:46:06 i cleared that list Oct 24 13:46:34 its still on the sd card though, I see it on the eclipse file browser Oct 24 13:47:01 oh, hmm Oct 24 13:47:03 dunno then Oct 24 13:47:08 sorry Oct 24 13:47:18 thanks for trying! Oct 24 13:47:19 i'm still rather new at this myself Oct 24 13:47:20 hi guys Oct 24 13:47:32 i saw a post about u on boingboing Oct 24 13:47:55 reference-ril/atchannel.c deals with AT commands Oct 24 13:51:39 zeebee, what's 'u' ? Oct 24 13:51:52 is that a successor to the g1? Oct 24 13:52:25 u == #android Oct 24 13:52:34 ?? Oct 24 13:52:40 what about #android??? Oct 24 13:52:51 http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/24/hackers-working-on-c.html Oct 24 13:52:51 I tend to avoid variable names with one letter except for i and j in loops Oct 24 13:53:50 i think that's a load of crap Oct 24 13:53:52 bugs bugs bugs.,. wheeeee bugs. Oct 24 13:54:41 i wasn't here when RyeBrye made his claim but i saw what he said leading in that direction... and i hope it works :) Oct 24 13:56:59 I say find the signature checking code and work from there Oct 24 13:57:14 if there even is one enabled Oct 24 13:57:26 yeah Oct 24 13:58:07 any leads on an OSC library for android? Oct 24 13:59:31 osc? Oct 24 13:59:44 jalola Oct 24 14:00:42 yes. Oct 24 14:01:45 Open Sound Control: http://opensoundcontrol.org/introduction-osc Oct 24 14:06:12 can we already upload apps to the market o_O Oct 24 14:06:39 no, the market opens on Monday Oct 24 14:06:57 See: http://www.anddev.org/viewtopic.php?p=12093#12093 Oct 24 14:07:02 then check the market-games... Oct 24 14:11:27 he got it in o_O Oct 24 14:11:49 what sort of appsa re being developed right nwo Oct 24 14:12:54 dan_winckler: if there are linux implementations I don't see anything stopping running it on an android target, once we can update the lower layers Oct 24 14:14:41 thanks, Zagor :) Oct 24 14:14:46 I assume doing it in java might not produce the timing accuracy you are looking for? Oct 24 14:15:08 does the g1 have the same capiblities like the iphone Oct 24 14:15:13 will there be like NES emulators and such Oct 24 14:15:15 i'm not sure -- i haven't done any Java dev yet Oct 24 14:15:39 zeebee: a coworker is working on NES emulator Oct 24 14:15:57 coool Oct 24 14:16:04 will they be uploaded the market place Oct 24 14:16:14 or will it be on private websites Oct 24 14:16:22 i don't know if he plans to put it on the market or not Oct 24 14:17:01 Zagor: i'm working on a port of Mrmr (http://createdigitalmotion.com/2007/10/29/mrmr-iphone-105-quartz-composer-wireless-vj-nirvana/) Oct 24 14:21:28 dan_winckler: that doesn't sound very timing critical. go for java, I'd say Oct 24 14:21:47 plusminus_: where can I find andnav? Oct 24 14:22:12 thanks! :) i just found a Java OSC lib, though the site's down at the moment Oct 24 14:22:30 zhobbs: not yet, needs some final debugging Oct 24 14:23:12 can multiple items be selected in a listview ? Oct 24 14:23:14 zhobbs: anyway I've been walking around in the streets yesterday and I was pretty satisfied Oct 24 14:23:14 * waldo_ is back (gone 05:04:06) Oct 24 14:25:47 plusminus_: cool, looking forward to it Oct 24 14:25:56 me too :) Oct 24 14:29:40 still on RC19 :/ Oct 24 14:29:47 * languish continues to wait Oct 24 14:31:00 languish: me too but at least my wifi works now :) Oct 24 14:31:31 lol Oct 24 14:31:39 what was the problem? Oct 24 14:32:12 tmob hotspot finder trashes it Oct 24 14:32:23 ok coffee and breakfast time Oct 24 14:32:26 o.O Oct 24 14:32:34 enjoy Oct 24 14:45:04 is it possible to return my own type with setResult() Oct 24 14:45:14 well, i obviously can Oct 24 14:45:45 can't with setResult, because an Intent only takes a String as an "action" but i'd like to pass a user defined type from one Activity to another Oct 24 14:47:46 maybe you can set it as a public static field somewhere? Oct 24 14:48:07 (which is the (very) ugly way to do it) Oct 24 14:49:07 rmblr: use the the Intent extras Oct 24 14:49:12 yea Oct 24 14:49:27 the intent extras are the best way to work between Activities Oct 24 14:50:02 using a Bundle? Oct 24 14:50:19 Greetings. Oct 24 14:50:23 The extras are a Bundle, put in there with under a key Oct 24 14:50:53 then pull it out with the same key when you get the result back Oct 24 14:52:04 tomgibara: do i need to subclass bundle and provide my own "putCustomObject(key, object) ? Oct 24 14:52:46 What 'sort' of object are you trying to pass back? Oct 24 14:53:28 What I'm getting at is that some objects just don't lend themselves to being persisted in the way that the Intent mechanism requires. Oct 24 14:54:21 tomgibara: it's a custom type.. Oct 24 14:54:45 rmblr: What sort of state does it contain, eg. is it like a struct? Oct 24 14:55:04 struct? we are still talking about java right? Oct 24 14:55:09 anyone have even rumors about the next phone to support android? i'm not fond of the g1 but i have an oppurtunity to get a new phone Oct 24 14:55:11 tomgibara:not one of the primitives (short, int string, etc) Oct 24 14:55:32 tomgibara: i don't have any idea what the structure of it is.. it's a type from a library i am using Oct 24 14:55:45 that represents a "Session" for an authenticated user Oct 24 14:55:51 Wander_w: I said "like" a struct - it's not a simple distinction I'm trying to make. Oct 24 14:55:55 it probably contains some string values Oct 24 14:56:44 rmblr: Is this an actual session (that contains the state for the user), or a key for the session? Oct 24 14:57:16 a key, hashed user credentials, a timestamp maybe Oct 24 14:57:33 Does it implement Serializable? Oct 24 14:57:49 ah Oct 24 14:57:55 let me check, i doubt it Oct 24 14:58:53 tomgibara: no it doesn't Oct 24 14:59:04 Is this a third party library? Oct 24 14:59:31 yea, but open source. all of this type's members are strings or bools, so i could make it serializable Oct 24 14:59:58 but i'd rather not.. it sort of defeats the purpose of using a canned library heh Oct 24 15:00:33 rmblr: If you are going to change the source, and don't mind inserting a dependency on Android, you'd ideally make it Parcellable Oct 24 15:00:43 Otherwise Serializable would do. Oct 24 15:00:58 Does it have a public constructor? Oct 24 15:01:12 hm Oct 24 15:01:27 i could use android.app.Application Oct 24 15:01:57 since this session will be used all over the place it seems appropriate to make it a "global" application member Oct 24 15:02:25 Bodging state that should flow between activities into global storage will cause you pain. Oct 24 15:03:45 For that approach to work, the Application would need to have the capacity reconstruct the Session object. Oct 24 15:04:05 what about "A HashMap of WeakReferences to Objects" ? Oct 24 15:04:25 and using the intent extras there Oct 24 15:04:26 morning Oct 24 15:04:47 rmblr: I think you need to study the documentation on the Activity lifecycle to understand why these approaches won't be fruitful. Oct 24 15:04:52 jasta, check out http://pastebin.com/d3328a20e Oct 24 15:05:21 tomgibara: yea i just found the documentation.. i'm beginning to see why. android can kill/start an app in the background Oct 24 15:06:16 rmblr: yes, that's right, so it needs to persist the Intents (and all the state the contain) so that it can resurrect the app and its activities Oct 24 15:07:01 That's the reason for the restrictions that apply to the values that can be 'bundled' with an Intent. Oct 24 15:12:12 umk1d3 you around? Oct 24 15:12:25 'lo Oct 24 15:12:31 yo Oct 24 15:12:50 heh was in the wrong channel but hi ;) Oct 24 15:13:06 oh, so you didn't even mean it.. Oct 24 15:13:16 I meant it, just not for you. :P Oct 24 15:13:34 you can have the hi, the 'lo is reserved sir. Oct 24 15:14:02 alright I'll take it. Oct 24 15:14:16 most excellent Oct 24 15:14:21 I'm sure you'll enjoy it Oct 24 15:15:21 Is that an Open Source hi? Can I see the source, please? Oct 24 15:16:37 chatroom.say("'lo."); // insincere greeting Oct 24 15:16:58 romainguy_: does / will Photostream handle uploads? Oct 24 15:19:53 a‚ Oct 24 15:19:57 :/ Oct 24 15:29:31 Touch pro is coming out this next week. Oct 24 15:29:38 word Oct 24 15:29:53 that will be an exciting piece of tech for android Oct 24 15:29:55 on sprint :/ Oct 24 15:30:02 is it multi-touch capable? Oct 24 15:30:13 I doubt its gonna be multi-touch Oct 24 15:30:14 but ionno Oct 24 15:30:15 VZW allows all devices on their network, if i recall Oct 24 15:30:27 http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchpro/overview.html Oct 24 15:30:29 touch pro doesn't have the capacitive touch screen, it uses another technology. It doesn't have the compass... Oct 24 15:30:34 pmac: not yet it doesn't Oct 24 15:30:41 so yeah, it's be cool with android because android's cool Oct 24 15:30:51 but it's be missing some of the functionality of the g1 Oct 24 15:31:15 languish: thats not a big deal though, some people don't need all of the features the G1 has, like the compass. Oct 24 15:31:35 i'd rather see a touch pro 2 android extravaganza blitz ball extreme happy happy fun time version Oct 24 15:31:41 is the compass a specific item of tech? Oct 24 15:31:46 touch pro won't have android, unless the community makes it, yes? Oct 24 15:31:58 summatusmentis: yes. Oct 24 15:32:03 Speaking of the compass, anyone aware of an app that displays a traditional compass face? Oct 24 15:32:07 has anyone taking the g1 apart to see if the touchscreen is multi capable yet? Oct 24 15:32:12 summatusmentis: but theres a decent shot of it working since they are both HTC. Oct 24 15:32:13 i thought it was just a part of the ... Oct 24 15:32:23 accelerometers Oct 24 15:32:31 Dougie187: well, we'd need a way to flash it Oct 24 15:32:36 summatusmentis: yeah. Oct 24 15:32:45 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/08/20/htcs-touch-diamond-pro-are-multi-touch-gods-just-not-how-you/ Oct 24 15:32:47 jcw, there was one... it wass demo'd by some peeops @google but I haven't seen the app available Oct 24 15:32:49 Dougie187: i ordered the XPS 13 inch finally Oct 24 15:33:02 languish, thanks Oct 24 15:33:03 michaelnovakjr: oh yeah? what made you decide on that one? Oct 24 15:33:06 i was considering a lenovo 13.3 Oct 24 15:33:16 Dougie187: other laptop crapped out Oct 24 15:33:25 michaelnovakjr: too bad. but no thinkpad for you? Oct 24 15:33:46 i was thinking about it, i like the specs of the xps and the design is nice Oct 24 15:33:48 urgh... windows laptops :) Oct 24 15:33:59 the macbooks are just too pricey for me Oct 24 15:34:02 summatusmentis: actually linux :) Oct 24 15:34:06 michaelnovakjr: true. Oct 24 15:34:09 michaelnovakjr: ok, slightly better Oct 24 15:34:21 summatusmentis: whats best in your opinion? Oct 24 15:34:22 pmac: worth every cent though :) Oct 24 15:34:31 i have heard good things about the hardware Oct 24 15:34:40 Dougie187: I'm a relatively recent OS X convert Oct 24 15:34:41 summatusmentis: lol. depends who you are talking to. that is 100% subjective. Oct 24 15:34:52 but I wouldnt get a "brick" one until they get the kinks worked out Oct 24 15:35:07 I've yet to find a better OS for a laptop than OS X Oct 24 15:35:13 * Disconnect is a fan of his mbp, but then again we got -wicked- distributor discounts Oct 24 15:35:14 hmm Oct 24 15:35:25 so who has a g1? Oct 24 15:35:31 Dougie187: i know it is, but I'm right :) Oct 24 15:35:32 they wanted us to sell a bunch of clusters to gov't.. Oct 24 15:35:39 whoops, meeting. bbl. Oct 24 15:35:42 summatusmentis: lol, well i don't care much for osx or macs. Oct 24 15:35:48 but that is my opinion. Oct 24 15:35:56 Dougie187: i agree, even though OS X is nice Oct 24 15:36:02 Linux is better Oct 24 15:36:12 For many things, it is. Oct 24 15:36:14 Not all things. Oct 24 15:36:14 michaelnovakjr: yeah totally. OS X > Windows. but Linux > OS X Oct 24 15:36:27 i have to disagree... Oct 24 15:36:33 OS X > Linux > Windows Oct 24 15:36:41 see? 100% subjective. Oct 24 15:36:44 :) Oct 24 15:36:46 its all what you want out of it. Oct 24 15:36:48 there's not much you can do in linux you can't do in os x... but the reverse isn't true Oct 24 15:36:49 to be fair * > Windows :) Oct 24 15:36:55 nobody with a g1 on the Android irc? Oct 24 15:36:56 summatusmentis: true. Oct 24 15:36:57 sheesh Oct 24 15:36:58 oh, that's just bullshit. Oct 24 15:37:02 pmac we all have 'em Oct 24 15:37:12 waldo_: I don't :-D Oct 24 15:37:12 waldo_: i don't Oct 24 15:37:13 i don't Oct 24 15:37:15 I have a g1 :> Oct 24 15:37:15 lol Oct 24 15:37:21 pmac: what's up Oct 24 15:37:36 what's bullshit jcw Oct 24 15:37:46 This X > Y > Z stuff. Oct 24 15:37:56 Somethings Windows is better at. Something Linux is better at. Oct 24 15:37:59 I can't speak to OSX. Oct 24 15:38:13 jcw are you trying to be fair and evenhanded? Oct 24 15:38:24 Oh, right. That's not the IRC way, is it... Oct 24 15:38:24 vol: i was just curious if I should buy one out of contract to play with Oct 24 15:38:30 I tend to agree with waldo_, OS X can do most things Linux can Oct 24 15:38:49 put it this way-- os x can run windows... not vice-versa Oct 24 15:38:50 with a prettier interface >_> Oct 24 15:39:23 os x can run windows and GNOME and intermingle thier windows.. you can't do that with either windows or linux Oct 24 15:39:51 is there a way to set the timeout for the keys' backlight? Oct 24 15:39:58 seems too short Oct 24 15:40:02 on g1 or mac? Oct 24 15:40:03 jcw: you're on irc, pick a platform and defend it to the bitter end, no matter its faults Oct 24 15:40:14 pmac: I like mine, you might not like yours. Oct 24 15:40:22 I'm not dissing OSX, but I had a G400 with 10.2 (I think). I basically liked it, but it was just dissimiliar enough from KDE to cause me headaches switching around. Oct 24 15:40:25 I'm not sure if it's worth $600 or whatever, but then again I'm an incredible miser Oct 24 15:40:47 jcw-- 10.2 was a long time ago Oct 24 15:40:47 and my pricing system is stuck in the mid 90s Oct 24 15:40:51 you had a G400? Oct 24 15:40:56 jcw give it another shot... Oct 24 15:40:56 * vol curses the price of Oct 24 15:41:01 vol, CP/M rules. All your fancy windows-based graphical systems such. Give me a Z80 with 64K, 2 1.2MB 8" flops, and a ADM-3A terminal, any day. Oct 24 15:41:10 vol I think it's $400 Oct 24 15:41:11 Oh yea, and a papertape punch for backups. Oct 24 15:41:23 jcw: no way. cp/m can suck it. altair all the way Oct 24 15:41:28 jcw ah, cp/m Oct 24 15:41:39 apple ii forever? Oct 24 15:41:50 Yes, but do you still have one? *I* have an IMSAI in my basement, that's currently powered up and running. Oct 24 15:41:57 Abacus rul_ez Oct 24 15:42:15 Along with two Processor Technology SOL-20's with those new-fangled 5.25" 720K floppies :( Oct 24 15:42:40 Man I wish I had a basement. Oct 24 15:43:04 basement? ha! I hope you like flooding! I keep my old equipment in a rusty shed in the backyard! Oct 24 15:43:14 I live in a tree and eat moss Oct 24 15:43:24 I live in a giant bucket Oct 24 15:43:26 i wish I had moss Oct 24 15:43:29 What I really want is a PDP/11 Oct 24 15:43:39 kate moss? Oct 24 15:43:43 i live in new york city, my basement was invaded by rats Oct 24 15:43:43 hell no Oct 24 15:44:04 I'm dead and have been for at least 100 years. Oct 24 15:44:19 In fact, I never existed. Oct 24 15:44:21 kate moss used to take the bus near my friends house, standing there chain smoking at getting on the bus with the cig and cursing people out when they told her to put it out Oct 24 15:44:27 Unfortunately, PDP/11's go for decent money nowadays. Oct 24 15:44:28 and yes, she did it almost every time Oct 24 15:44:47 Someone has a PDP/11 for sale? Oct 24 15:44:56 They come up now and then. Oct 24 15:45:08 VMS = best operating system Oct 24 15:45:09 Some people luck out and find a company disposing of one, and cart it off for free. Oct 24 15:45:16 I am not one of those lucky people. Oct 24 15:45:17 michaelnovakjr, you live in NYC, your basement invaded the rats territory... Oct 24 15:45:23 * languish nyc too Oct 24 15:45:29 ;0 Oct 24 15:46:37 G1 hardware question: is there any documentation on the DSP core? The qdsp5 directory in the kernel seems to do just command handling. I presume the GL library uses it, anything else? Oct 24 15:47:20 I heard the core was nougat. Oct 24 15:47:49 sorry, kernel questions make my head asplode. Oct 24 15:48:22 Actually more a hardware question than a kernel question, FWIW :) Oct 24 15:48:32 andyross, I don't know if this helps, but the htc dream: Special_Features: Harvard architecture, 26/32-bit addressing, Jazelle DBX, DSP instruction extensions Oct 24 15:49:39 Yeah, that's about the level of documentation I've found too. It's a SoC thing with the ARM11 core we see, the baseband CPU (also an ARM, I believe, and re: this channel yesterday on the same DRAM bus), and the "DSP" core, about which I know zilch other than that wikipedia claims it can do "4M triangles/sec". Oct 24 15:50:22 thats alot of triangles. Oct 24 15:51:34 Not in the desktop world, certainly. The original Geforce 256 in 1999 (? - thereabouts) topped out at 25M/s. I'm not even sure where it lands among contemporary mobile "GPUs", thus the question. Oct 24 15:51:58 I'm more interested in pentagrams per second. Oct 24 15:53:28 andyross ARM9 coprocessor, Embedded QDSP4000 and QDSP5000 DSP Oct 24 15:53:45 from the htc specs Oct 24 15:54:01 http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7201a Oct 24 15:54:48 Yeah, the ARM9 will be the baseband cpu. But a product name for the DSP isn't really what I'm looking for. More along the lines of a datasheet: is it a vector FPU that the CPU seeds with data, or a separate CPU with its own firmware, etc? Oct 24 15:55:43 yawn Oct 24 15:56:46 as long as I can play ut3 on it, I don't care about the details. Oct 24 15:59:08 hey how do I customize my G1's desktop is there a webpage or basic tutorial anywhere Oct 24 15:59:29 customize it in what way? Oct 24 15:59:43 add icons, change background, remove the clock Oct 24 16:00:12 long-press on the clock then drag it to the trash to remove it Oct 24 16:00:28 use menu -> wallpaper to change the background Oct 24 16:00:58 to add icons to the desktop, just long press and drag them there Oct 24 16:01:11 * jasta is coming around about the desktop/icon system Oct 24 16:01:18 this could work out pretty well if applications take advantage of it Oct 24 16:01:28 i'm gonna add support to Five to let you put playlists on there Oct 24 16:01:37 jasta: its pretty easy Oct 24 16:01:39 and maybe even artists/albums Oct 24 16:01:44 umdk1d3: i know Oct 24 16:02:02 ooh and for the ssh app Oct 24 16:02:07 it really does use the typical ssh uris Oct 24 16:02:13 nice :) Oct 24 16:02:16 ssh://user@host:port/#nickname Oct 24 16:02:36 i had problems getting your ssh client to connect through my port forwarding scheme for some reason Oct 24 16:02:55 it just hung saying trying to authenticate when i'd connect Oct 24 16:03:05 yea there are still issues Oct 24 16:03:11 never did get any real work done yesterday Oct 24 16:03:13 Dumb java question: seems like a lot of the API is split between "android" packages and "com.android" packages. Is there any meaning to the distinction? Oct 24 16:03:24 jasta: does your guys' remote logcat work on G1? Oct 24 16:03:41 andyross: com.android generally represents things layered atop the platform, whereas android. is the base package space for the platform itself Oct 24 16:03:47 jasta: or is that way outdated Oct 24 16:03:52 yakischloba: never tried it. not much reason, as you can just plug it in via usb :) Oct 24 16:04:07 so heres an issue that im seeing Oct 24 16:04:14 also its not very resilient, if the connection breaks i think it just gives up (stupid) Oct 24 16:04:15 /lots/ of users will be getting crashes Oct 24 16:04:23 and they dont know jack about adb or getting logcat dumps Oct 24 16:04:32 it would be awesome if we had one single background app service they could install Oct 24 16:04:40 that watches logcat on the device (if that permission exists) Oct 24 16:05:00 and greps out exceptions from your program Oct 24 16:05:00 then launches a special intent towards your app with the erorr info Oct 24 16:05:01 jasta: yeah I know. My problem is I have a recurring bug and I want to make sure I get it recorded, ie, my logcat buffer doesn't get overwritten by the time I get to a computer. and I don't want to just not use the phone or whatever ;) Oct 24 16:05:06 that you could then report back online or something, handle however you choose Oct 24 16:05:21 yakischloba: ah, well... Oct 24 16:05:34 i think what you want is a way to save a snapshot of the logcat Oct 24 16:05:45 well, the logcat contains personal info Oct 24 16:05:55 which is why you want to grep out just your app's stuff Oct 24 16:05:56 romain tried to tell me that you chould use some key combo to write the current logcat buffer to the SD card, but someone else corrected him saying that was only in debug builds, which I think is a goddamn shame because that's exactly what I need Oct 24 16:06:02 yakischloba: i have a package that did that, you could probably modify it pretty easily Oct 24 16:06:04 >:/ Oct 24 16:06:05 but who knows if apps can read logcat Oct 24 16:06:07 POST the logs to a web server? Seems like the simplest solution given the platform.. Oct 24 16:06:25 andyross: heres the issue--we wouldnt want to give internet permission to this service Oct 24 16:06:30 to keep it secure Oct 24 16:06:36 we would deliver the log back in an intent to your app Oct 24 16:06:40 and you handle however you like Oct 24 16:06:43 hi all, newb question, don't laugh: I just finished building the Android Open Source from git. I got ramdisk.img, system.img, and userdata.img under out/target/product/generic folder. So what is next? Oct 24 16:06:52 Dunno. But if it's just a log... What's the harm in e.g. submitting it to a pastebin and emailing the link somewhere? Oct 24 16:07:05 t_ubuntu: you cant flash it onto the G1 device :( Oct 24 16:07:22 andyross: sometimes ti contains email address tickles for gmail, etc Oct 24 16:07:30 and privacy info like what other apps are running Oct 24 16:07:49 we can pull out only the logs from a specific processid, which removes that issue Oct 24 16:09:11 But isn't the intent that users are going to submit these logs anyway? I mean, if you don't want sensitive information in them, isn't the proper solution to not log sensitive information in the first place? This is a debugging feature after all -- the point is simplicity, not robustness vs. attack. Oct 24 16:09:26 I do not have a G1 and even if I do I would not flash it (yet). until I know what I am doing first. The question I guess is can I build it into a different target? Say a x86 platform Oct 24 16:10:17 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 24 16:10:47 andyross: right, but two problems--they dont know how to enable usb debugging and install adb or something, second they dont know to remove any personal info from the logcat dumps Oct 24 16:11:26 Maybe I'm just confused. My real question was why logs that you intend the user to submit have sensitive information in them at all? Oct 24 16:11:53 the personal info is two thigns: 1) their gmail address, and 2) other apps they might be running Oct 24 16:12:45 But if you don't trust "the internet" with that information, why should the users trust *you* with that information? Again, security promises work both ways. It strikes me that you're adding complexity to try to solve something that can't be solved this way. Oct 24 16:13:15 andyross: the issue is that logcat includes /everything/ from the platform Oct 24 16:13:23 writing personal info to logs is bad idea Oct 24 16:13:30 Exactly. :) Oct 24 16:13:32 if jasta decided to dump IMEI numbers into his logcat for some reason, then that would go over the logs Oct 24 16:13:40 :P Oct 24 16:15:59 Well, yeah. But if jasta did that, then *any* log submission mechanism is insecure by definition. The place to protect against private information in submitted data is in the *data*, not the submission mechanism. Oct 24 16:16:36 http://shop4.frys.com/product/5707342 Oct 24 16:17:00 not that you NEED a decent deal on a microSD card if you ended up getting a G1. Oct 24 16:17:02 Again, don't assume that a 100% secure transfer (say, via non-network personal exchange of media) to *you* is secure. The users don't (or shouldn't) trust you any more than you trust them. Oct 24 16:17:59 is a branch always required to work with git repos? Oct 24 16:18:05 do you guys think a firmware upgrade will change the battery life? Oct 24 16:18:17 or that a longer life batter y is require Oct 24 16:18:25 A git repository kinda *is* a branch by definition. Oct 24 16:18:29 unix_lappy that is a great deal on a microsd card Oct 24 16:19:02 pmac: i did 2 training sessions on it (run it until it turns off, turn it on, repeat until it won't turn on, then charge 8+ hours straight) and its -much- better now. (well i did that and turned off 3g) Oct 24 16:22:13 rofl google bought a fighter jet Oct 24 16:22:33 is there an RSS reader yet? Oct 24 16:22:40 disconnect: thanks for the data Oct 24 16:24:04 Yes, there is an RSS reader. Oct 24 16:24:10 OI-News or something like that. Oct 24 16:24:20 or just google reader :) Oct 24 16:24:27 By Open Intent Oct 24 16:25:47 hey guys, did you read the "I got my G1 firmware by blinking the camera LCD" story? Tell me it is bullshit :) Oct 24 16:26:08 Link? Oct 24 16:26:13 i didnt see the story Oct 24 16:26:15 got a link? Oct 24 16:26:39 http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/24/hackers-working-on-c.html Oct 24 16:26:40 Je ne suis pas là mais je serai de retour bientot ! Oct 24 16:26:53 RyeBrye was in here talking about it early AM, like 1:00 Oct 24 16:26:54 Je ne suis pas là mais je serai de retour bientot ! Oct 24 16:27:30 was that g1 firmware he got or was that his camera and how he's fighting with the g1? i thought it was "i got my camera firmware, how hard coudl this be" Oct 24 16:27:38 bstock, I know, I am trying to establish if he was serious or kidding Oct 24 16:27:50 seemed serious Oct 24 16:28:18 And where's the autofocus LED on the G1? Oct 24 16:28:31 i love it when blogs quote an irc channel Oct 24 16:28:35 its total crap Oct 24 16:29:05 michaelnovakjr: wheres that at? lol Oct 24 16:29:09 And why a microphone port? Clearly the right solution would have been to cable the output of the phototransistor to a level converter and use rs232. Clearly. Oct 24 16:29:23 umdk1d3: the boingboing link above Oct 24 16:29:30 jcw: It's in software. Oct 24 16:29:33 jcw: Try the camera. Oct 24 16:29:39 That's my point. Oct 24 16:29:46 There's no autofocus LED to blink the code out of. Oct 24 16:29:53 That I'm aware of, at any rate. Oct 24 16:29:58 jcw: Oh. Oct 24 16:30:04 michaelnovakjr: rooooofl wtf? Oct 24 16:30:09 haha Oct 24 16:30:12 i know Oct 24 16:30:13 * ttuttle is happy. He has an 8 GB microSD card waiting for him at the mailroom! Oct 24 16:30:21 thats... just epic Oct 24 16:30:21 Where's your mailroom? Oct 24 16:30:26 jcw: University Center. Oct 24 16:30:27 I'll pick it up for you :) Oct 24 16:30:30 jcw: (I'm a college student.) Oct 24 16:30:34 jcw: You'll need my CMU ID. Oct 24 16:30:43 Oh a Colt .45 1911A Oct 24 16:30:45 Can I borrow it? Oct 24 16:30:47 oR* Oct 24 16:30:52 ttuttle: he used the microphone port to scan and copy your ID Oct 24 16:30:54 * andyross the time required for a serial transmission of a ~256M firmware image run through an analog translation and sampled with a 48KHz ADC is left as an exercise for the reader. Oct 24 16:30:58 michaelnovakjr: oic Oct 24 16:31:02 :) Oct 24 16:31:04 well, actually my first thought was, yes, firmware is closed source, but there got to be a way to dump firmware using adb Oct 24 16:31:28 so blinking megabytes of data using some non-existent LED seems silly Oct 24 16:31:47 andyross, I think they used the microphone port for the previous project to apply filters to the waveform. That was used even earlier where someone beeped the code out of a PSP or Game Boy or something that didn't have a LED. Oct 24 16:31:51 andyross: you might want some overhead in there too Oct 24 16:32:16 But I agree, it's not the way I'd do it. Oct 24 16:32:17 for checksums Oct 24 16:32:22 The "shell" user available through adb can't, the permissions are locked down. Clearly the "install" features do more, but probably by talking to privileged software on the box. You'd need to find an exploit. I'm sure that as-designed, adb can't touch the bare hardware. Oct 24 16:32:52 Checksums!? Real men use ECC. Clearly. Oct 24 16:33:04 lol Oct 24 16:33:23 re: installing new firmware, i think it might be signature related Oct 24 16:33:36 those .imgs compiled above would need to be signed with correct key to replace whats on the G1 Oct 24 16:34:02 similar to the way upgraded apps behave in market Oct 24 16:34:13 yawn Oct 24 16:36:18 wow, this link http://images.frys.com/art/rebates_pdf/5291727_101508.pdf is a $15 rebate for this $25 8GB MicroSDHC Card http://shop1.frys.com/product/5291727 Oct 24 16:36:19 I wonder what dumpsys and dumpstate commands do in adb Oct 24 16:36:37 $10 after rebate Oct 24 16:36:52 jeld: dumpsys is quite useful, for instance, try dumpsys meminfo Oct 24 16:36:59 * Disconnect is holding out for 16g Oct 24 16:37:01 I wish I could take that back, it is just SD not MicroSD Oct 24 16:37:06 sorry guys Oct 24 16:37:17 I am not gonna brick my phone doing that, am I? ;) Oct 24 16:37:23 * jasta already has his 8GB card on its way :) Oct 24 16:37:43 although five's been doing pretty good so far on the default 1GB Oct 24 16:37:47 pfff, 8GB. That's so 2 weeks ago... Oct 24 16:37:52 8 GB is cheap. Oct 24 16:38:02 i dont need much more than 8GB, considering Five should manage this sophistication automatically Oct 24 16:38:17 the size of the card is merely an optimization ;) Oct 24 16:38:50 i suppose if you were inclined to stream the music over your network it would be ok Oct 24 16:38:59 and the lack of a headphone jack isn't helping... Oct 24 16:39:03 where's the 16gb? Oct 24 16:39:08 Don't get me started on the headphone jack. Oct 24 16:39:09 pmac: http://five.googlecode.com Oct 24 16:39:31 ttuttle: ugh, no kidding. no headphone jack + no a2dp = shit music phone :( Oct 24 16:39:41 that's HTC :) Oct 24 16:39:46 jasta: /me already broke his earphones' plug. Oct 24 16:39:56 jasta: Luckily I'm getting another pair from Google, but everyone can't do that :-\ Oct 24 16:40:05 im more upset by the lack of a2dp, since i didnt plan to even use corded earphones Oct 24 16:40:16 wireless headphones all the way. better sound, even if i look dorkier. Oct 24 16:40:55 how do you figure that wireless headphones sound better? Oct 24 16:41:13 jasta, what is Five? Oct 24 16:41:21 jasta, oops, sorry Oct 24 16:41:48 They don't get pulled out or tugged on, for one. Other than that, I doubt sound quality is a big differentiator. Don't argue about headphone preferences. No two people think the same about audio hardware. Oct 24 16:41:58 Is there any contribution agreement that I need to sign or any copyright reassignment I need to do to contribute code? Oct 24 16:42:07 jasta, heh, your name is in the screenshot :) Oct 24 16:42:09 marcone: i dont know why i just typed that actually. i meant, more convenient hehe Oct 24 16:42:23 jeld: ? Oct 24 16:42:50 oh yes, through the title i see. Oct 24 16:42:57 jasta, :) Oct 24 16:43:02 well, it's no secret, my name is also on the right under "Project Owner" :) Oct 24 16:43:29 Lenolium: yes, there is. see source.android.com Oct 24 16:43:45 'USB debugging' is selected in the G1 settings and its connected to the laptop with a usb cable. 'adb devices' shows no devices. any idea? Oct 24 16:44:01 five is sweet. Cool. Keep up the good work Oct 24 16:44:11 donomo: mac, windows or linux? Oct 24 16:44:29 mikez5: ubuntu linux Oct 24 16:45:00 donomo, when first running adb, run it as root Oct 24 16:45:07 adb probably does not have permission to talk to the USB driver. You need to add something to /etc/udev/rules.d/ Oct 24 16:45:11 donomo, the adb server has to run as root Oct 24 16:45:19 jeld: ah ok Oct 24 16:45:23 Check permissions on the device, or run adb as root to verify. There's a udev hint floating around you can use to automatically set the permissions. Also: the first time I plugged my phone into my Gutsy box, the (host) kernel oopsed and I needed to reboot before adb would work. Oct 24 16:45:33 donomo, that is after you added the udev rule as the good book says Oct 24 16:45:35 no, you shouldn't need to run it as root. let me look up the docs... Oct 24 16:45:59 the daemon is running as root now Oct 24 16:46:04 adb devices shows the device Oct 24 16:46:10 I doubt that someone will get around to fixing issue 1056 for me, so I'll probably have to do it myself. Oct 24 16:46:18 jasta: Do I need the Python dev package for libsexy, or just libsexy itself? Oct 24 16:46:27 Lenolium: you want something done, do it yourself Oct 24 16:46:32 just libsexy itself, i do not use python in the server Oct 24 16:46:33 that is my personal stance on thigns :) Oct 24 16:46:35 jasta: okay Oct 24 16:46:36 http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware Oct 24 16:46:37 i should add the udev rule so it doesnt have to run as root, but this works for now thx Oct 24 16:46:41 ttuttle: check the INSTALL file, it is pretty helpful for debian/ubuntu users Oct 24 16:46:42 mikez5, well, I couldn't find any other way, I guess it is all in some sort of root only ioctl() Oct 24 16:47:04 mikez5, I know, I have that rule and the adb server still has to run as root Oct 24 16:47:05 jasta: I'm using Gentoo :-\ Oct 24 16:47:05 ttuttle: also, check the issue list if you get confused. there are a lot of TODO's ;) Oct 24 16:47:21 ttuttle: gento can build it, but you need to rebuild a few packages as the gentoo package defaults are miserably stupid Oct 24 16:47:31 for instance, libsqlite3 builds without column name support, which i require. Oct 24 16:47:43 gentoo*, i meant Oct 24 16:47:59 jasta: /me has a Debian etch box too. Would that suffice? Oct 24 16:48:13 jasta: Oh, it doesn't have a GUI though... Oct 24 16:48:27 jeld: strange, one of the two approaches should work. Maybe you need to restart udev Oct 24 16:48:51 mikez5, tried that Oct 24 16:49:49 is there a place I can check out devices that people have been successful in uploading Android to? Oct 24 16:49:53 jasta: Will libmusicbrainz4 work? Oct 24 16:49:56 ttuttle: it will build on Gentoo, umdk1d3 has it working. Oct 24 16:50:13 jasta: Debian's easier, I think. Oct 24 16:50:14 ttuttle: no, libmusicbrainz4 is actually a misnomer, it's musicbrainz 2 Oct 24 16:50:26 jasta: Oh. Oct 24 16:50:31 jasta: Damn. Oct 24 16:50:35 jeld: you could also try adding yourself to the "usb" group (if your linux distro has that) Oct 24 16:50:35 and debian/ubuntu bundle a broken version of libmusicbrainz3 (3.0.0), you need 3.0.2 Oct 24 16:50:39 jasta: How do I get 3? It's not listed. Oct 24 16:50:47 ttuttle: if you're interested in a quick demonstration, i can just give you my demo server Oct 24 16:50:55 Actually, it looks like that is what I needed to do on my gentoo machine :-) Oct 24 16:50:57 jasta: Yeah, but I want to try it with my music ;-) Oct 24 16:51:12 hehe, ok, well, building the server certainly is tricky, but the INSTALL docs are pretty helpful Oct 24 16:51:19 * ttuttle forgot his Portage tree at home. (It's on a RAID0 across four 1 GB USB disks.) Oct 24 16:51:24 the server is sophisticated, and has lots of parts to build :) Oct 24 16:51:38 for now... Oct 24 16:52:31 server install will become easy :) Oct 24 16:54:11 well, building the server is tricky, of course at some point it will be built for you :) Oct 24 16:54:17 by debian, ubuntu, etc :) Oct 24 16:54:31 jasta: You should offer it as a LiveCD ;-) Oct 24 16:54:37 no, i shouldn't. Oct 24 16:54:50 jeld: having permissions issues accessing the device? Oct 24 16:54:53 jasta: Someone should. Oct 24 16:54:59 i'm not one of those developers who likes to waste my time doing a job someone else can do better. in this case, packaging and distribution. Oct 24 16:55:18 jasta: Let me rephrase: It should be made into a LiveCD by someone other than you. Oct 24 16:55:31 gdsx, not really, I just had to run the adb server as root Oct 24 16:55:51 ttuttle: ok, cool ;P Oct 24 16:55:52 andyross Oct 24 16:55:57 languish Oct 24 16:56:01 ttuttle: but ultimately, i expect it to be as simple as apt-get install five-server Oct 24 16:56:02 jeld: not ideal, but ok :o) Oct 24 16:56:06 jasta: It'd be cool if you could pop a CD and a USB HDD full of music into a box. Oct 24 16:56:20 andyross see if you can reference this book somewhere (library or.. lulz..) http://www.linleygroup.com/pdf/Handsetv3_excerpt.pdf Oct 24 16:56:24 ttuttle: server _setup_ is not hard, although right now UPnP isnt supported so you'll need to punch through your firewall to access it from the public internet Oct 24 16:56:28 for the details you were seeking earlier Oct 24 16:56:36 jasta: Pfft, UPnP is a security hole. Oct 24 16:56:51 of course it is, i dont freaking have it on on my network Oct 24 16:56:57 jasta: Heh. Oct 24 16:56:57 If you're in NYC, the main branch might have it Oct 24 16:57:01 but joe idiot does, and joe idiot is exactly who it should be made easy for Oct 24 16:58:14 That looks nice, thanks. I've partially puzzled this out. All the DSP interaction, it seems, goes through the libhgl.so library (a Qualcomm product, I think -- not part of the android source), called by the OpenGLES implementation, called by the "skia" 2D graphics library which is wrapped via JNI in android.graphics. Oct 24 16:58:51 :| Oct 24 16:58:52 But the hardware is all in the qualcomm library. Here's an OpenGL parameter dump I found for almost identical hardware in another phone: http://www.glbenchmark.com/resultdetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro&resultid=6392206&D=LG KS20 Oct 24 16:59:13 ttuttle: there are a few bugs im squashing this week that i noticed when using a device as well, so keep that in mind Oct 24 16:59:29 for instance, the UI sometimes doesnt present itself properly for the rotated screen (d'oh) Oct 24 16:59:31 Anyway, it looks like there's no software exposure of this part at all, not even to google (except maybe as a source dump -- someone had to build it for the android libc). They're just calling a library qualcomm wrote. Oct 24 16:59:32 jasta: Okay. I'm not up to installing it quite yet (I'm in class). Oct 24 16:59:43 and also, failed streaming downloads don't retry or detect choking, which was just me being stupid Oct 24 16:59:48 of course they'll fail all the time :) Oct 24 17:00:01 although thats an easy fix, resume/partial caches is already supported Oct 24 17:00:20 Is there any support from google for putting small bits of adsense text in applications? Oct 24 17:00:21 i just havent had much dev time yet. this weekend, for sure :) Oct 24 17:01:12 tmccrary: Surely you could hack that together via the appropriate HTTP and HTML display, no? Oct 24 17:01:29 yeah, good point, I just thought there might be some sort of built in api or something Oct 24 17:01:32 Although maybe that violates the adsense contract, if it's supposed to be page-specific. No idea. Oct 24 17:02:05 andyross: yeah, you can't hack adsense like that afaik Oct 24 17:03:16 tmccrary: you got to wait until google supports adsense in android Oct 24 17:03:51 hmm... there seems to be a su command included in the android source... Oct 24 17:04:32 But no su installed on the device that I can see. Having the source doesn't allow you to set the suid bit you need. Oct 24 17:05:24 The sad thing is that google did this *right*. The security domains on the box are really tight, every app runs in its own account, etc... Nothing has root access for command issue. Sigh... Oct 24 17:06:05 can you get root for anything else? (eg an openvpn wrapper would require openvpn to run as root, but the gui can happily continue being user) Oct 24 17:06:09 andyross, yes. good to see SOMEONE implement security well Oct 24 17:06:40 Except that the security model views the owner as a threat, but yeah. Oct 24 17:06:43 or s/openvpn/* vpn/ (thats the 2nd most common question i'm getting @ work and similar places - does it do vpn) Oct 24 17:06:45 Disconnect: I hope google or someone will get openvpn working soon, it's would be really convenient Oct 24 17:06:54 andyross, looking at the ps output, there are some userspace processes running as root Oct 24 17:07:13 jeld: fun ones or just the usual suspects? Oct 24 17:07:15 * Disconnect hasn't looked Oct 24 17:07:50 Disconnect, that depends who are your usual suspects, root 26 1 724 144 c0127154 afe0b50c S /system/bin/sh Oct 24 17:07:58 oooh neat Oct 24 17:08:00 Yes, but they aren't shells. And downloaded code gets its own uid, nothing gets to elevate in the model as far as I can see. We need an exploit for one of those root processes, or a flash/bootloader hack. Oct 24 17:08:02 Disconnect: That would be implemented as a system service, and, yeah, it could have root. Oct 24 17:08:11 andyross: thats a shell :) Oct 24 17:08:21 andyross, yes, I noticed, just don't be so pessimistic :) Oct 24 17:08:48 root 29 1 652 132 c0196bf8 afe0c0bc S /system/bin/debuggerd Oct 24 17:08:57 Oh, I'm not pessimistic exactly. I have confidence that this will be cracked at some point. Oct 24 17:09:10 and hedgehog cannot be debuggerd at all! Oct 24 17:09:36 andyross, I am just poking around looking at things :) Oct 24 17:09:47 so the basic model is "the user can't be trusted with their own device, thats why its so open"? :( the other in-model option is to pull some capabilities back down (add routes, virt network devices, etc) and make everyone rewrite their apps Oct 24 17:10:21 The security model is more about preventing one downloaded app from compromising user data, or the device. The fact that the shell user is gimped is a side effect, I'm sure. Oct 24 17:10:24 * Disconnect isn't gonna trust an openvpn daemon he had to write tho.. better to use upstream security software :) Oct 24 17:10:38 Disconnect, well, they COULD have provided root access (they just didn't) Oct 24 17:10:54 andyross: so allow suid+chroot only. or go the (ugh) selinux route.. Oct 24 17:11:29 But then they'd have to write an authentication layer, to prevent someone from just plugging in a USB cable and rooting your phone. I don't blame them, there's no upside in it. And carriers don't like the idea either, I'm sure. Oct 24 17:11:33 "this app is perfectly ok to use stuff it brings with it and nothing else" memory protection isn't too hard (well, dunno on arm..) so it can only see it's own process space and it's own files. its a bit bulkier that way but.. Oct 24 17:11:56 er, should be "nothing else". period. new sentence: memory :) Oct 24 17:12:28 languish & any other NYC ppl. - can you confirm for me that you've had zero trouble browsing the web? Oct 24 17:12:32 with 3g Oct 24 17:12:47 zero trouble? no of course not. Oct 24 17:12:54 sorry but it's functional Oct 24 17:12:55 but it works for the most part Oct 24 17:12:57 ok Oct 24 17:13:07 Not in NYC, but I think you have to qualify that "zero". In portland, I see it drop to EDGE every once in a while. Oct 24 17:13:11 zero trouble compared to "it doesn't and has never worked not even once" Oct 24 17:13:22 don't care about portland, they said there are towers out in the city and that's why i can't get on Oct 24 17:13:22 even on edge I don't have too much trouble Oct 24 17:13:35 wastrel: make sure the tmob hotspot app (and the hotspot it installs) are uninstalled Oct 24 17:13:39 when i was standing next to someone yesterday with a g1 and he could browse, i couldn't. Oct 24 17:14:20 wastrel, did you go to settings -> Wireless contreols -> Mobile Networks -> Operator selection. Oct 24 17:14:20 it'll search, then choose Select Automatically Oct 24 17:14:20 also, enable data roaming Oct 24 17:14:24 Disconnect: i did a factory reset Oct 24 17:14:39 yes i've tried edge & 3g no web but email works Oct 24 17:14:48 Check T-Mobile and verify that your plan is set up properly? Certainly the carrier can block you if they want, I have no idea what policies are. Oct 24 17:14:56 wastrel, that sounds like a dns issue Oct 24 17:15:34 As stated, if you're getting email, you're getting data. It's not a hardware problem. Oct 24 17:16:03 yes that's what i said on Wed. when i called. they said wait 48 hours for the account setup to complete. Oct 24 17:16:06 and yesterday Oct 24 17:16:13 wastrel: what kind of email are you getting--the gmail email? Oct 24 17:16:39 wastrel, do what I said there. then open the browser and go to www.google.com INCLUDE the www. don't just put the domain Oct 24 17:16:39 Poor service from a phone company? Shocking, truly. Oct 24 17:16:39 gmail yeah Oct 24 17:17:26 languish: it's on their end, it's not the handset. Oct 24 17:18:03 wastrel, i get it, but try that anyway Oct 24 17:19:10 languish yeah, it's the same as always ... 4 bars of 3g, see data go up, some come back, the progress bar is about 1/10th filled, the spinner is spinning Oct 24 17:19:13 no web Oct 24 17:19:36 if i leave it long enough it'll time out and i'll get "web page not available." Oct 24 17:19:49 with a cute upside-down android logo Oct 24 17:20:16 wastrel, change the APN setting to port 8080, or one of the alternative tmo servers Oct 24 17:20:28 you can dig those up on howardforums.com Oct 24 17:23:15 kk, changed to 8080, still Oct 24 17:24:04 ahh well, change back, wait for tmo to get their shit together Oct 24 17:24:33 I'm suprised you can't access the edge network though Oct 24 17:24:42 or rather, it doesn't work with Oct 24 17:24:44 i can access edge Oct 24 17:24:56 yeah i think they're blocking me in their gateway or proxy or whatever it is. Oct 24 17:24:59 iono. Oct 24 17:25:12 i have zero understanding of how mobile internet works Oct 24 17:25:35 Heh, as much as I might grouse about the hidden DSP, wince users apparently have it worse: http://htcclassaction.org/ -- broadly identical hardware to the G1. But they didn't bother to ship the GL drivers? Oct 24 17:26:15 nope they didnt Oct 24 17:26:23 and they were a bitch to hack together. Oct 24 17:26:42 that was the reason I didn't get the kaiser Oct 24 17:26:47 and man was I pissed Oct 24 17:26:55 like everyone else. Oct 24 17:27:16 hey now im here Oct 24 17:27:23 Found that site while searching for what docs exist on the MSM7x00 DSP Oct 24 17:27:28 is it still only possible to use java for android apps, or is c++ now also possible? Oct 24 17:27:37 thanks chainfire for your great work Oct 24 17:28:26 Chainfire: the SDK supports only java, but you can hand-load a JNI library, and the toolchain in the source drop seems to work. I'm trying to piece together a framework for doing that right now. Oct 24 17:29:46 The trick seems to be to write out a physical file from the package on first start (because package resources aren't stored unpacked in the filesystem) and load it via JNI. The C/C++ library set seems reasonably robust, specifically the GL library looks like it will interoperate just fine. Oct 24 17:30:01 ok Oct 24 17:30:06 so its not officially supported Oct 24 17:30:37 btw anyone know if a G1 will work on 'proper' HSDPA networks, or just the T-Mobile ones? (I need one here in Europe) Oct 24 17:30:42 No. fadden here mentioned that there will be a native SDK at some point in the future. Not sure if that will be supported on the G1 (with or without flash update) or not. Oct 24 17:30:55 Chainfire: voice and edge should work everywhere. 3g is tmob-usa only Oct 24 17:31:10 (well, for reasonable definitions of everywhere :) ..) Oct 24 17:31:21 romainguy: you there? i've got some concerns about how to implement IMAP IDLE given the way the app is designed right now. Oct 24 17:31:21 3g should work in europe also Oct 24 17:31:33 bah, really cant wait til they release EU version. i know my competition in the US is already cracking... Oct 24 17:31:48 is it simlocked, then? Oct 24 17:31:54 UMTS/W-CDMA is (I thought) reasonably standard, no? Is T-Mobile US running a weird version? Oct 24 17:31:56 romainguy: in particular, the listener system depends on the service running in the same process as the activity, which means that with IMAP IDLE the entire email app process would need to persist indefinitely. Oct 24 17:32:16 romainguy: i dont think in practice it will be a big deal, but i dont want to submit patches that get rejected for this reason... Oct 24 17:32:34 "The G1 operates on UMTS channels I and IV. Channel I is commonly used Europe, Africa, and Asia. Channel IV is really only used by T-Mobile in the US. AT&T uses channels II and V for their UMTS network." Oct 24 17:32:35 Chainfire: yep simlock although (haven't tried g1) tmob is generally good at providing codes, either after 90 days or (if you are a long-term good customer) immediately upon request Oct 24 17:32:35 Have anyone heard any word on those promised updates? Did they do them transparently or did they put them on hold? Oct 24 17:32:36 andyross> T-Mobile is the only HSDPA operator in the world using the 1700 mhz frequency.. this isnt supported by many phones out of the box. the question is if this G1 supports the 'proper' frequencies Oct 24 17:33:15 i should say UMTS operator Oct 24 17:33:40 hey thanks zhobbs... that'd mean I may get it to work here Oct 24 17:34:06 andyross: skia does not use OpenGL ES Oct 24 17:34:08 just gotta find out which channel dutch T-Mobile uses... if I can't get it 'unlocked' that would be an issue, though Oct 24 17:34:19 andyross: there's preliminary support for that, but it's not enabled and doesn't work, so it's not used Oct 24 17:34:23 Chainfire: HTC's website has a list of freqs that the handset supports Oct 24 17:34:47 Oh. So the 2D graphics is all software then? I saw the SkGLDevice stuff and assumed that was the native implementation. Oct 24 17:35:04 it's all software Oct 24 17:35:08 Maybe that explains the videos showing the choppier scrolling vs. the iPhone then. Oct 24 17:35:19 that's not just about the software rendering Oct 24 17:35:24 we also run at only 385 Mhz :) Oct 24 17:35:30 we started working on a GL implementation of Skia Oct 24 17:35:41 but OpenGL ES 1.0 makes it very hard if we want to be feature complete Oct 24 17:35:56 (like gradients, paths transformations, shaders, etc.) Oct 24 17:35:58 So the $64k question then, is does the GL implementation actually ... work? Does anything on the device use it? Oct 24 17:36:13 we removed the public APIs to enable it in 1.0 Oct 24 17:36:17 it was available in 0.9 Oct 24 17:36:19 Home runs fine with it Oct 24 17:36:26 but there are performance and stability issues Oct 24 17:36:33 then there are drivers problems Oct 24 17:36:39 only one GL context can exist at a time Oct 24 17:36:43 makes things a lot more difficult Oct 24 17:37:02 I can still hear mathias banging his head on his desk. Oct 24 17:37:04 That's a little upsetting. Oct 24 17:37:06 so we are punting on this until we have OpenGL ES 2.0 Oct 24 17:37:17 so that we can at least have a 1:1 mapping of Skia features to OpenGL Oct 24 17:38:17 Hello. Oct 24 17:38:35 so G1 won't have 3D acceleration at all Oct 24 17:39:38 f00f-: except it does Oct 24 17:39:43 for OpenGL Oct 24 17:40:05 heh Oct 24 17:40:08 for public applications? Oct 24 17:40:13 er yes Oct 24 17:40:14 G1 has OpenGL and Skia APIs. Skia != OpenGL. Oct 24 17:41:35 f00f-: the opengl samples in ApiDemos work pretty well on the device Oct 24 17:41:53 ok great Oct 24 17:42:21 Question wasn't about the APIs, though, but about layering. So GL sits on the hardware acceleration, but doesn't actually get exercised by much (which worries me, along with the fact that libhgl.so looks like a binary blob from Qualcomm). It's starting to sound more like a checklist feature than a well-integrated part of the core. Oct 24 17:42:35 the Translucent GLSurfaceView is pretty neat actually, could do some cool stuff with something like that Oct 24 17:43:00 andyross: it is well integrated, certainly not a checklist feature Oct 24 17:43:08 andyross: SurfaceFlinger for instance uses OpenGL Oct 24 17:43:42 and there is 2D hardware acceleration performed by SurfaceFlinger Oct 24 17:44:05 OpenGL ES 1 is very limited and it's not practical to hardware accelerate a complex API like Skia with it Oct 24 17:44:32 romainguy_: what's holding us back from OpenGL ES 2.0? Oct 24 17:44:50 hardware Oct 24 17:44:51 drivers Oct 24 17:44:55 :) Oct 24 17:45:04 ok, so the G1 hardware won't support it Oct 24 17:45:05 Rather than try to puzzle this out, I'll just ask the dumb question: SurfaceFlinger is the touch scrolling API? Oct 24 17:45:09 OpenGL ES 2.0 is very different from OpenGL ES 1.0 Oct 24 17:45:13 especially because of shaders Oct 24 17:45:20 it requires a shaders compiler for instance Oct 24 17:45:25 andyross: not at all Oct 24 17:45:56 andyross: it's the low-level graphics buffer manager if you will Oct 24 17:46:22 it does the compositing of the windows for instance Oct 24 17:46:52 what the hell is qemu doing inside my G1 I wonder Oct 24 17:47:11 You have qemu running on your G1? Oct 24 17:48:26 fadden, hmm... I was sure I saw a process named qemud just a few minutes ago, but I guess I was wrong Oct 24 17:48:59 jeld: it's the first step toward self-hosted development Oct 24 17:49:15 gdsx, ? Oct 24 17:49:16 jeld: we can't run our apps on the real handsets yet, so we have to test on the emulator Oct 24 17:49:30 jeld: it's more realistic when the emulator is running on the handset, though Oct 24 17:49:49 gdsx, :) :) :) Oct 24 17:50:06 :o) Oct 24 17:50:22 jeld: do you have an emulator running? Oct 24 17:50:42 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/23/google-android-apps Oct 24 17:51:15 xavd, no Oct 24 17:51:21 never mind, guess I was mistaken Oct 24 17:51:38 muthu: you have the power to fix that :-) Oct 24 17:51:55 jeld: I ask because the emulator has a qemud process Oct 24 17:52:36 * ttuttle is filling up his 8 GB microSD card. It's nice. Oct 24 17:52:42 xavd, no, I thought I saw that on an actual G1 and wondered about it Oct 24 17:52:43 fadden: yep, am sure lot of great apps are being worked at Oct 24 17:53:23 well, I have to say that lack of common apps on the default install is mildly annoying Oct 24 17:53:28 jeld: It's in the image but it doesn't run. Oct 24 17:55:05 jasonparekh, morrildl: greetings Oct 24 17:55:18 OK, so more GL questions then. So SurfaceFlinger is the broad X server equivalent, and composites the windows onto the actual display using an GL context. So how do I square this with "there can be only one context" from earlier. Does that mean that apps need to disable it somehow before using it? Oct 24 17:55:51 using "it" == their own GL context, if that wasn't clear Oct 24 17:56:12 SurfaceFlinger doesn't use OpenGL for everything Oct 24 17:56:17 I wasn't clear before Oct 24 17:56:24 howdy, tu Oct 24 17:56:31 ttuttle even :) Oct 24 17:56:33 Hey, everyone, I played with the G1 yesterday -- awesome work! Oct 24 17:56:33 it's SurfaceFlinger who talks to the OpenGL drivers and provide the GL context, etc. Oct 24 17:56:51 Has anyone caught wind of Android running on iPhone yet? Oct 24 17:56:55 I can't wait to flash mine. Oct 24 17:56:57 OK, so it manages the single shared context or whatnot, then? That makes sense. Oct 24 17:57:30 lack of file manager is also annoying as hell, anyone knows of a good one? Oct 24 17:57:50 djsiegel: there's probably easier targets than the iphone Oct 24 17:58:12 jeld: http://code.google.com/p/android-random/ Oct 24 17:58:12 well, that's what I'm working with... Oct 24 17:58:23 jeld: it won't be of much use except to look at your sdcard Oct 24 17:58:33 jeld: not sure if those apk's are for 1.0 though Oct 24 17:58:40 yeah, plus the G1 is locked down :( Oct 24 17:58:47 If I answer a call on my bluetooth speaker phone, and then transfer the call back to my phone...android doesn't recognize that the usb headset is plugged in. I have to unplug and replug my usb headset to get it to work. Oct 24 17:58:51 I'd really like to figure out how to enable root Oct 24 17:59:02 romainguy, that would be the point, if you clear the downloads list the only way to deal with files on the SD is using a computer Oct 24 17:59:59 romainguy, or if you copy stuff to SD from your computer Oct 24 18:00:53 people that download free stuff are so demanding Oct 24 18:00:54 zhobbs: well that is the challenge, isn't it? Oct 24 18:01:08 (we have a betting pool on how long it will take) Oct 24 18:01:29 Yeah, I'm with jeld here. I know that the modern notion is that users don't use "file managers" any more, they use per-application data and manage it with the application. Except that enormously complicates what should be simple tasks like "grab this picture and make it your desktop background", or "put this song on your friend's flash drive". Oct 24 18:01:42 We think we did a pretty good job of securing the phone, but this being reality, nothing is impregnable. Oct 24 18:01:53 This isn't a ding against android specifically, most devices have the same disease. It's a groupthink issue more htan a bug. Oct 24 18:02:12 "grab this picture and make it your desktop background" << that's not true in our case :) Oct 24 18:02:20 andyross: sounds like an exciting third-party app development opportunity Oct 24 18:03:03 I meant of your desktop computer, actually. And yes, a third party file manager would be very well received. I'm just grousing at what I think is a misfeature on modern devices. It's OK to simplify, but it can be taken too far. Oct 24 18:03:10 "grab this picture and make it your desktop background" is pretty easy on android, no file manager needed. Oct 24 18:03:57 marcone: the file manager would be useful for exploring your sd card Oct 24 18:04:07 but im sure someone in the community will produce that Oct 24 18:04:11 its an obvious project Oct 24 18:04:14 marcone, not if you download a wallpaper using your computer and copy it to G1 over USB Oct 24 18:04:14 and a file manager is fine for users like people on this channel Oct 24 18:04:36 but you can at least admit that a file manager is just a user un-friendly way to display the data Oct 24 18:04:44 does anyone know of a soft keyboard app that works yet? Oct 24 18:04:47 marcone, G1 only allows to set wallpaper from the camera storage directory or from the "Picture Gallery" whatever that is Oct 24 18:04:51 jeld: after you copy it on to your card, it will show up in the "pictures" app, and from there you can set it as your wallpaper Oct 24 18:04:51 users are bad Oct 24 18:04:56 I really don't think the target customers of the G1 need to know about /data, /system etc. Oct 24 18:05:04 jeld: long-press on the desktop Oct 24 18:05:09 marcone, even if I put it in an arbitrary location? Oct 24 18:05:13 jeld: you can set wallpaper from any image-provider Oct 24 18:05:13 jeld: yes Oct 24 18:05:14 yes Oct 24 18:05:21 Here's a good example (pretty sure I have the details right here): go to settings and change you ring tone. You only get a few choices, so blah, I guess you can't have a song as a ring tone. Except that if you then browse to a song in the audio player, you can choose "use as ringtone". Which is insane, and a misfeature caused by the fact that there's no single place to go to look at the song. Oct 24 18:05:28 hold on, I gotta try this Oct 24 18:06:33 It's true... Oct 24 18:06:35 andyross: that's a usability bug, but this has nothing to do with a file manager Oct 24 18:07:03 andyross: nothing to do with managing file, and easily addressed by using "Rings Extended" instead of the standard ringtone settings. Oct 24 18:07:04 well, no, it doesn't work Oct 24 18:07:10 Some data types are inherently multilingual, they need to "belong" to more than one app. But inevitably those apps have different UIs for dealing with them, and users get confused by what should be simple tasks. Non-file UIs make the simplest tasks simple, but have problems with slightly-less-simple-but-still-simple tasks. I'm not sure that's a good tradeoff. Oct 24 18:07:52 mkdir /media/G1/XXX cp image.jpg /media/G1/XXX, unplugged my phone and I couldn't set that picture as wallpaper Oct 24 18:08:07 marcone/romainguy_: yes, but that's a per-application-per-data-type hack. You can do that if you're careful, but you certainly don't get it for free like you do with a file metaphor. Oct 24 18:08:17 jeld: out of curiosity, did you unmount first? Oct 24 18:08:19 andyross, you can get the replacement ringtone management app Oct 24 18:08:30 gdsx, oops, no :) Oct 24 18:08:44 gdsx, stupid me Oct 24 18:08:47 jeld: are you sure the picture exists on your phone? "unplugged my phone" sounds like it might not have made it on to the card Oct 24 18:08:59 marcone, yes, I know, trying again Oct 24 18:09:07 Damn. I'm starting to regret having ordered my G1 now. Hope someone's figured out how to hack it by the time it arrives. Oct 24 18:09:15 Meh. OK, enough said. It's a deeper point than just android features anyway. But "the way everyone does it today" doesn't equate in my mind with the best way to do it. I think a lot of folks here are defending the apps they know instead of worrying about the right UI decisions. Oct 24 18:09:35 ExpiredPopsicle: "hack it" in what way? What do you want to be able to do? Oct 24 18:09:53 ok it's been an hour since t-mob said they'd call me back in 10 min, shall i give a try calling again? :] Oct 24 18:10:13 andyross: I think it was a decision between "do what folks are used to" and "try to improve the experience, though it might be uncomfortable at first" Oct 24 18:10:16 Okay, arguably this is all because of the seemingly ambiguous spectre of T-Mobile's "lockdown" on it which I'm not entirely clear on yet... Oct 24 18:10:50 But I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed root access on my own hardware. Oct 24 18:10:51 andyross: I think ContentProviders are a better way of doing things Oct 24 18:11:10 Actually, I do see why, but it all ends in "profit for T-Mobile". Oct 24 18:11:23 OK, works Oct 24 18:11:38 freaking magic Oct 24 18:11:42 does anyone know of a soft keyboard app that works yet? Oct 24 18:12:01 ExpiredPopsicle: do you think tmobile's profits would be decreased by allowing root access on the device? not sure I see how they tie in Oct 24 18:12:42 just wreakin havoc on the networks Oct 24 18:12:51 ExpiredPopsicle: not having root access on the device is the security model, it has nothing to do with the carrier or locked devices Oct 24 18:13:32 Hmm... point taken. Oct 24 18:13:48 But still, can someone clarify this "T-Mobile lockdown" for me? Oct 24 18:14:11 what exactly is locked down on the android? Oct 24 18:14:17 simple: the phone will only work with a T-Mobile SIM Oct 24 18:14:47 Oh. That's it? Do developers still have access to all the cool features like GPS and things? Oct 24 18:14:54 marcone: from what i hear it doesn't have to be an activated sim though... Oct 24 18:15:01 ExpiredPopsicle: yes Oct 24 18:15:18 ExpiredPopsicle: and you can install any app you want from any source you wnt Oct 24 18:15:20 Dougie187: but without an activated sim, you won't be able to make calls. What good is a phone that can't make calls? Oct 24 18:15:39 its good for those of us not on TMo Oct 24 18:15:40 marcone: its like an MID Oct 24 18:15:41 Has anyone called T-Mobile about getting their phone unlocked? I know that with other carriers and devices, they're usually not too sticky about it -- just explain that you're travelling, etc... Oct 24 18:15:42 Because I had a couple of Sidekick phones that, even with a developer key, you couldn't access a lot of the cool hardware features on. Oct 24 18:15:44 you can use wifi still Oct 24 18:16:16 Well, explain that you're travelling, and make sure it's somewhere they don't have service. :) Oct 24 18:16:18 http://www.g1depot.com/body-glove-rhythm-universal-horizontal-pouch/4A120A1158.htm Anyone else think that's *NOT* a G1 there? Oct 24 18:16:51 its a bb Oct 24 18:16:58 what's a bb? Oct 24 18:16:59 or a treo. something like that Oct 24 18:17:02 I *know* that. Oct 24 18:17:06 I was being faceitious. Oct 24 18:17:19 have you seen any "REAL" G1 accessories? Oct 24 18:17:27 Stupid companies can't put real products in product photos suck. Oct 24 18:17:42 have the headphone adaptors come out yet? Oct 24 18:17:59 http://www.g1depot.com/smartphone-experts-mini-usb-stereo-adapter/12A45A2373.htm Oct 24 18:18:00 Ike150: it's just the usual HTC standard adapter, you can find them online pretty easily Oct 24 18:18:01 Like that one? Oct 24 18:18:03 There were headphone adapters even before there was the G1 Oct 24 18:18:03 they've been out for ages Oct 24 18:18:09 talk about "the stupidest" design feature htc could have thought of... Oct 24 18:18:16 andyross: according to T-Mobile they are instructed to do it without question in 90 days. Oct 24 18:18:22 not sure if you do it now. Oct 24 18:18:40 * ttuttle grumbles about the adapter. Oct 24 18:18:47 OK, so there's a waiting period to prevent gray market reselling, I guess. Oct 24 18:18:50 unix_lappy: t-mobile actually does it for you? and isn't that only for non-contracted phones? Oct 24 18:19:24 Okay. Here's another question. What is included in the T-Mobile G1 service that's not in the Internet Unlimited plan? And is it possible to use the G1 with the latter? Sorry for the weird questions. I'm just curious. Oct 24 18:19:35 does anyone know of a soft keyboard that works yet? Oct 24 18:19:40 And I can't wait for my phone to arrive to find out. ;] Oct 24 18:19:43 ExpiredPopsicle: its listed on their website. Oct 24 18:19:46 eTiger13: It is not possible to make a soft keyboard yet. Oct 24 18:20:10 Where on the site? Oct 24 18:20:11 Carriers are stingy, but they're not insane. They know you're just going to use a local phone in out-of-service areas and won't be paying the roaming anyway. Doing "nice" things for customers like this is a classic way to build cheap customer loyalty. Oct 24 18:20:36 Sounds like this place is getting a bit more popular :) Oct 24 18:20:53 Dougie187: yes. no. Oct 24 18:20:57 in that order. Oct 24 18:21:00 ttuttle: why not? Oct 24 18:21:21 eTiger13: the SDK doesn't support it as input Oct 24 18:21:45 michaelnovakjr: doesnt or cant? Oct 24 18:22:00 currently it supports the slide out on;y Oct 24 18:22:00 JoeBrain: yeah the channel was posted on slashdot.org this morning...that's how i found out about it Oct 24 18:22:14 there's no need for a soft keyboard Oct 24 18:22:58 There are those who disagree with you. Oct 24 18:23:05 And one is supposed to be out in Q1 '09 Oct 24 18:23:38 I think he meant for the G1 specifically Oct 24 18:23:42 not the Android platform Oct 24 18:23:54 there is a need for one. what about devices with no hardware keyboard? or for those who want to enter something quickly without sliding out the keyboard? Oct 24 18:24:14 Even the G1 needs one now and then. Oct 24 18:24:14 currently android is only on the G1 :) Oct 24 18:24:18 where do I search for and file bugs ? Oct 24 18:24:22 maybe at some point there will be support Oct 24 18:24:35 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list osmosis Oct 24 18:24:51 http://www.pdablast.com/articles/2008/10/20081023-G1-to-get-virtual.html Oct 24 18:24:57 I dunno, I haven't played w/ my G1 all that much yet Oct 24 18:25:29 michaelnovakjr: you would be mistaken about android only on the g1 Oct 24 18:25:37 But I dont believe it'd make it more 1-hand friendly; just less sliding it around Oct 24 18:25:38 eTiger13: officially? Oct 24 18:25:50 michaelnovakjr: officially it is open source Oct 24 18:26:04 how do i write an image into a contentprovider? Oct 24 18:26:05 which means it can be on any device and is and has been since april Oct 24 18:26:11 uh yes, but that doesn't mean its not only available officially on the g1 :) Oct 24 18:26:22 i wish a non trouchscreen 'dumb' phone with candybar form-factor had android/linux on it Oct 24 18:26:27 i'm getting an unsupportedOperationException when I attempt to do so Oct 24 18:26:33 is there a way to do this? Oct 24 18:26:34 eTiger13: you do realize not everything is open sourced? Oct 24 18:26:40 or is this illegal in Android 1.0? Oct 24 18:26:42 JoeBrain: Oct 24 18:26:55 this shouldn't be a very difficult probley Oct 24 18:26:57 problem. Oct 24 18:27:00 kingkung: image in a content prodiver? Oct 24 18:27:01 http://androidcommunity.com/android-coming-to-the-htc-touch-hd-20081007/ Oct 24 18:27:02 michaelnovakjr: like what isnt? Oct 24 18:27:06 yes Oct 24 18:27:11 image in a contentprovider Oct 24 18:27:13 eTiger13: hardware level code Oct 24 18:27:17 nemik: I'd figure we'll get our pick of a big litter in 2009-2010 Oct 24 18:27:17 or even image in the file system Oct 24 18:27:19 eTiger13: go look it up Oct 24 18:27:26 i don't get it Oct 24 18:27:36 JoeBrain: yea hopefully Oct 24 18:27:37 kingkung: do you have a code example, pastebin? Oct 24 18:27:47 i do, what's pastebin? Oct 24 18:27:55 google it Oct 24 18:28:07 michaelnovakjr: i thought the whole project was open sourced? Oct 24 18:28:08 Ike150: not a big fan of rumors without timeframes. Oct 24 18:28:17 eTiger13: not everything is Oct 24 18:28:50 aww. romainguy is picking on me and closing my bugs. :P Oct 24 18:28:51 especially when it's a terrible rumor to begin with. Oct 24 18:28:58 okay i see it Oct 24 18:29:00 pastebin.com Oct 24 18:29:04 how do i hook it up to mirc Oct 24 18:29:05 michaelnovakjr: how do you figure that? looks like everything open source to me according to android.com Oct 24 18:29:25 eTiger13: device level code is not Oct 24 18:29:34 Ike150: that would need a soft keyboard as well Oct 24 18:29:38 kingkung: paste something there, then copy/paste the URL to mirc. instead of pasting all the text. Oct 24 18:29:46 kingkung: paste the url Oct 24 18:29:48 okay Oct 24 18:30:43 o.o did gmail's web composer get a facelift? Oct 24 18:30:49 michaelnovakjr: http://pastebin.com/m281020 Oct 24 18:31:10 Is the G2 a slide keyboard? Oct 24 18:31:10 simple, direct code Oct 24 18:31:32 JoeBrain: what's a "G2" ? Oct 24 18:31:52 meh URL above; basically HTC Touch HD but w/ droid on it Oct 24 18:32:22 kingkung: what is cv? Oct 24 18:32:24 michaelnovakjr: thats not part of the platform according to wikipedia. how did we get on this topic again? Oct 24 18:32:29 contentvalues Oct 24 18:32:33 don't worry about that last line Oct 24 18:32:35 eTiger13: i have no idea Oct 24 18:32:37 JoeBrain: no. it would have to be a soft keyboard Oct 24 18:32:39 it's the insertImage that's throwing the error Oct 24 18:32:58 ok Oct 24 18:33:08 couldn't tell by pictures.. HTC seems to looove sliding keyboards Oct 24 18:33:12 if you look at the code for the various drivers on git there's nothing that really gives you hints on what hardware would be ready to go EARLY q1 09. Oct 24 18:33:15 just wish everyone would stop calling it an 'open phone' Oct 24 18:34:01 so open source except for things not part of the platform :) Oct 24 18:34:16 kingkung: you are passing a bitmap Oct 24 18:34:22 kingkung: not the path Oct 24 18:34:25 yeah Oct 24 18:34:34 kingkung: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/provider/MediaStore.Images.Media.html Oct 24 18:34:40 that is the docs on the method you are calling Oct 24 18:34:52 there's two functions Oct 24 18:34:59 one takes in a String as arg1, one takes in a Bitmap Oct 24 18:35:04 otherwise my code wouldn't compile :) Oct 24 18:36:03 does anyone here know how to correctly store an image into a contentprovider/file system? Oct 24 18:36:41 kingkung: if you are getting a runtime error post your logcat to pastebin Oct 24 18:39:57 http://pastebin.com/m10b4dd1d Oct 24 18:40:27 romainguy_: so should i just keep reopening that bug until i get the fix, since its a closed platform? Oct 24 18:41:33 kingkung: your URI is wrong Oct 24 18:42:37 romainguy_: (obviously i wouldn't do that :) but i did add a comment to #1050 because its not just a missing-notifications thing.. it really doesn't have an updated message list) Oct 24 18:44:19 disconnect: why is it a closed platform? Oct 24 18:44:36 i don't even declare a uri, the uri is automatically referenced through the insertImage() call. Oct 24 18:44:39 hmm, lots of new phones coming to verizon. Oct 24 18:44:53 is this function just entirely useless? Oct 24 18:45:40 tric: #1050 is closed-fixed because its been fixed in source. but i can't fix it on my device.. Oct 24 18:45:56 hehe Oct 24 18:46:01 wow. so the bot will do stupid s/1/2/3 replacements but it won't resolve bugreports to urls.. thats ... classy. Oct 24 18:46:08 well, its a open _platform_ Oct 24 18:46:19 and the issues are not for the g1/hardware afaik Oct 24 18:46:22 so... what's the correct URI? Oct 24 18:46:56 tric: yes and no.. when the google apps only use published apis, then you can get closer to 'open platform' thing.. but yah, i meant 'hardware platform' when i said that. Oct 24 18:47:21 what good is an 'open platform' if you can't put the changes you made to the platform on your device? Oct 24 18:47:28 does anyone here know how to correctly store an image into a contentprovider/file system? Oct 24 18:47:31 nemik: ..right. Oct 24 18:47:40 thats the point a lot of people are making. Oct 24 18:47:48 nemik: its good for hardware sellers ;) Oct 24 18:48:11 technically i can rename the email app to com.foo.email and such and install a second copy (into the very limited onboard storage) and then just tell the system to always use the new app.. Oct 24 18:48:23 but thats rather a pita and not really a 'solution' Oct 24 18:51:58 hi, i was wondering if anyone here knows how to store an file into a contentprovider or the file system Oct 24 18:55:36 * waldo_ is back (gone 02:45:19) Oct 24 19:00:23 so whens the second android device going to be out? :) Oct 24 19:00:43 I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess next year Oct 24 19:00:47 lol Oct 24 19:00:52 damn, eclipse tells me that I spelled "fucked up" wrong :) Oct 24 19:02:16 naw...hopefull right before christmas! Oct 24 19:03:11 Do I center a textview via the ui or java code? Oct 24 19:04:09 kingkung: did you look at the way the camera app does it yet? Oct 24 19:04:44 looks like I found it Oct 24 19:05:36 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 24 19:16:29 does anyone know of an example of a singleton class that wraps an Application object? Oct 24 19:17:04 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:11:28) Oct 24 19:17:18 Apparently my G1 order never actually went through. Blargh. Oct 24 19:17:26 ha Oct 24 19:18:17 T-Mobile's phone upgrade system went down around the time I hit "submit" apparently a couple of days ago. Or something. Oct 24 19:18:50 Apparently they were having volume problems at one point. You didn't get a confirmation? Oct 24 19:19:28 On that subject, is anyone privy to sales or production numbers? How many G1's are there so far? I've noticed T-Mobile advertising on TV (good ad, FWIW), so one assumes they're actively pushing it... Oct 24 19:19:35 just cancel and go pick up one up in store, there are plenty. Oct 24 19:20:30 ExpiredPopsicle if you live near an TMO store you can probably get a phone instantly. Oct 24 19:22:30 anyone know if UK price plans have been released forG1? Oct 24 19:27:13 marcone: no, i have windows Oct 24 19:27:39 how can we start a service without an application Oct 24 19:29:30 when i do a factory reset the phone comes back up to an error icon and it's unresponsive to button or touchscreen Oct 24 19:29:45 triangle ! icon Oct 24 19:29:52 have to pull battery then i'll boot Oct 24 19:30:32 ah alt-w will boot it Oct 24 19:30:40 fun i should read the manual this weekend. Oct 24 19:30:59 The locked bootloader really makes the "open OS" functionaly useless for me. Oct 24 19:31:01 does anyone know where I can report bugs in the calculator app? (it's not clear that the android bug list at: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/ is the place for application-level bugs..) Oct 24 19:31:02 Lets say that I find a bug in something on Linux - I usually track it down, figure out the nature of the bug, fix it, and submit a patch to the appropriate project - but until the patch gets applied (if ever) I'm fine because I can just use my locally patched version Oct 24 19:31:11 hello, any android experts here? Oct 24 19:31:35 i'm trying to store an image into a contentprovider or in the file system Oct 24 19:31:52 But on the T-mobile G1, I'd have to find the bug, fix it, test it in the emulator only (since I can't test it on my phone) - submit a patch - and then wait for 2 things... 1: Google to accept the patch, and 2: T-mobile to decide that they want to push out an update Oct 24 19:32:23 One of the main benefits of having an open source device is completely gone since I can't replace the OS with one that I patch myself. Oct 24 19:32:47 RyeBrye: this is probably not much consolation, but you could likely get around all this by building Android for the OpenMoko Freerunner (I believe this is now possible...) Oct 24 19:33:09 Yeah, I was telling people who had the same complaint that same thing Oct 24 19:33:16 since the FreeRunner is, truly, an open device. Oct 24 19:33:17 but since there is no software keyboard, that's not really an option Oct 24 19:33:18 ah.. Oct 24 19:33:22 :) Oct 24 19:33:32 I suppose I could lug around a USB keyboard :) Oct 24 19:33:41 hm.. there *are* software keyboards out there, but I don't know how well they would work on such a device Oct 24 19:33:45 since The FreeRunner also supports USB host Oct 24 19:34:10 I thought the software keyboard for Android wasn't slated until Q2 or Q3 of 09? Oct 24 19:34:25 Ick. Oct 24 19:34:27 hi, i was wondering if anyone knows how to store an image in the contentprovider Oct 24 19:34:28 RyeBrye: if its an app bug you can rename the app and build/install it as a new app. Oct 24 19:34:29 oh, of course -- sorry, I was thinking about plain X keyboards Oct 24 19:34:39 it'll happily ask which one you want to use (and accepts the 'always use this' button) Oct 24 19:34:47 not ideal but.. Oct 24 19:35:13 Disconnect: do you know where I can find bugtrackers for the packaged applications? Oct 24 19:35:29 afaik its all part of the master android bugtracker Oct 24 19:35:34 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list?sort=-id Oct 24 19:36:05 ah, ok Oct 24 19:36:22 I didn't see any app-specific bugs in my initial scan, and didn't want to push something to that tracker if it was the wrong place Oct 24 19:36:52 largos: i created a couple Oct 24 19:37:05 jasta: ok, cool Oct 24 19:37:44 (fwiw, the calculator's parser seems a little *too* lenient.. eg: 9(+2) = 12 Oct 24 19:37:55 er, sorry 9(+2)=18 ;) Oct 24 19:38:15 Too lenient or too not what you were expecting? Oct 24 19:38:30 Wait are you saying 9(+2) comes out 18 on the calculator or comes out 12? Oct 24 19:38:36 * Disconnect created a bunch and they've all been handled as correctly-filed (ie nobody said "dumbass that goes over here" :) ..) Oct 24 19:38:40 if it comes out 12, then someone who wrote it failed HS algebra Oct 24 19:38:45 RyeBrye: it comes out 18 Oct 24 19:38:49 It should be 18 Oct 24 19:38:55 it's doing implicit multiplication and unary addition Oct 24 19:39:22 9(+2) = 18 last time I checked... did they reorder the number line on me again? Oct 24 19:39:24 sorry, another test I was using was coming out 12, and I had a brain-fart typing Oct 24 19:39:56 RyeBrye: they re-order it weekly, to fit the Fed's requirements. Oct 24 19:40:06 :) Oct 24 19:40:12 it this about google android? Oct 24 19:40:22 IMO, unary addition is a bad idea on a device like this Oct 24 19:40:26 It's about the character Data on star trek Oct 24 19:40:42 ok :) any idea what the google android channel is? Oct 24 19:40:43 We're all Spiner Femmes. Oct 24 19:40:55 what does "Cannot make a static reference to the non-static method getSystemService(String) from the type Activity" mean? Oct 24 19:40:56 admin7106_318: try #freenode Oct 24 19:41:16 but, if that's the way people want the calc. then I can always tweak my own build :) Oct 24 19:41:18 Play nice, children. Oct 24 19:41:18 Don't forget to check the "topic" line when you get there. Oct 24 19:41:27 androoid - it means you need to learn Java :P Oct 24 19:41:55 * fadden recommends Eckel's _Thinking in Java_, currently in 4th edition Oct 24 19:42:03 androod - or you need ot use the getSystemService(String) method on an instance of the Activity not on the ACtivity class istself - since the method isn't static Oct 24 19:42:08 3rd edition was available for free online last I looked Oct 24 19:42:54 wow that was awesome Oct 24 19:42:57 thanks RyeBrye Oct 24 19:42:59 androoid: you have to create an instance of the class that implements that method, using the new operator Oct 24 19:43:06 yea learn java androoid Oct 24 19:43:13 yeah i should Oct 24 19:43:15 :D Oct 24 19:43:18 look up static references regarding java Oct 24 19:43:27 its really not that hard Oct 24 19:43:29 androoid - the second comment or the first one where I was being an asshole? if you would like, I can be more of an ass ;) Oct 24 19:43:59 Yeah, but learning Java take up precious resources you could use for something *really* useful. Oct 24 19:44:08 copy and paste code FTW Oct 24 19:44:27 Is this the Googel Android Channel? Oct 24 19:44:32 LOL Oct 24 19:44:41 android robots Oct 24 19:44:56 * donomo moves his arms about in a robot-like fashion Oct 24 19:45:03 no kidding, guys, is it? Oct 24 19:45:09 yes it is Oct 24 19:45:10 admin5015_275: check the topic Oct 24 19:45:12 Look at the topic ;-) Oct 24 19:45:19 admin5015_275 : if you have to ask, the answer wouldn't help you Oct 24 19:45:25 true Oct 24 19:45:30 RyeBrye: thats so zen Oct 24 19:45:32 admin5015_275: i really can't tell, based on the conversations Oct 24 19:45:43 how 'bout them mets? Oct 24 19:45:50 donomo: I'm working up to be a truly legendary Ass of IRC. I've learned from some of the best Oct 24 19:46:03 LOL Oct 24 19:46:03 Disconnect: told you, it's been fixed Oct 24 19:46:10 kingkung: seems fine to me Oct 24 19:46:19 Where is this admin generator coming from? Oct 24 19:46:41 ok, if this is the Google Android Channel, I like to ask something. Where can I downloads that r not on the android market? Oct 24 19:46:59 danfuzz: I think I might have done one of the interviews with you (back when I thought about joining GOOG). Did you previously live on the east coast? Oct 24 19:47:02 i.e.: http://www.slideme.org Oct 24 19:47:08 google.com filename: .apk Oct 24 19:47:13 romainguy_: you said notifications were fixed, but this wasn't a notifications bug.. if its all been fixed thats great.. (and as I said, i was kidding about opening bugs about it until its actually installable.. well mostly kidding anyway :) ..) Oct 24 19:47:24 TreyB: i did Oct 24 19:47:30 Disconnect: it's fixed :p Oct 24 19:47:32 (grew up in florida) Oct 24 19:47:36 heay great, thx! Oct 24 19:47:41 t-mob's given me a ticket number and assured me that i'll be contacted within 1-5 days about my problem :p Oct 24 19:48:14 danfuzz: I seem to recall a New York office or some such, but one forgets after a couple of years :-) Oct 24 19:48:19 What's your problem? Oct 24 19:48:25 no internet Oct 24 19:48:35 no. i've only ever worked for goog in mountain view Oct 24 19:48:38 gmail works, contacts sync. no internet. Oct 24 19:48:38 is there no mechanism that T-mobile uses to push updates to the phone other than over the air? Oct 24 19:48:41 i've visited the nyc office though Oct 24 19:49:07 wastrel: oh, I think I had that problem on Wed. Oct 24 19:49:08 romainguy_: maybe i should open a dozen or so tickets with tmob about it being broken, since its a tmob app (well, or so most people would think :) ..) Oct 24 19:49:08 and i went to college in the suburb of ny known as "rhode island" Oct 24 19:49:27 wastrel: I had a lot of trouble doing google searches, for example, but the non-web services worked fine Oct 24 19:49:49 wastrel: I connected to a wifi AP, and everything has worked since then (even when just using g3) Oct 24 19:50:11 danfuzz: The interviewer had interesting ARM performance questions and asked my opinion about security in VMs. Oct 24 19:50:15 RyeBrye: I'm sure that if you sent the phone back they could do it via USB. Oct 24 19:50:49 very well could have been me! Oct 24 19:50:50 largos: i've never been able to get internet with edge or g3. wifi works fine Oct 24 19:50:57 vol: but they will likely never send out a USB udpater in the wild... Oct 24 19:51:05 wastrel: ah, strange :( Oct 24 19:51:07 largos: and maps, yahoo, marketplace, don't work either. Oct 24 19:51:14 no, very much doubt they would. Oct 24 19:51:33 indeed Oct 24 19:51:52 I'm guessing the whole OTA thing is for security? i.e. they want security through obscurity by not letting people sniff any update process any other way? Oct 24 19:52:14 RyeBrye: the phone can be updated via the sdcard Oct 24 19:52:23 but OTA is just the best way to ensure everybody gets it Oct 24 19:52:26 er, yahoo=youtube Oct 24 19:52:28 rye it's probably for convenience Oct 24 19:52:29 and without having to use a computer Oct 24 19:52:30 Ahhhh - gotcha Oct 24 19:52:40 And any OTA update architecture would need to buffer the files somewhere. It's not hard to stop it in the process and see what's happening. Oct 24 19:52:45 yeah, updates are signed by a private key, so the security doesn't in fact rely on obscurity Oct 24 19:53:02 (other than the obscurity of the private key :-) ) Oct 24 19:53:07 Just on the PKI implementation no the device, which judging from history is weaker than obscurity :) Oct 24 19:53:09 has anyone here used "the invisible shield" from http://www.zagg.com/ ? Oct 24 19:53:14 and if so is it worth it? Oct 24 19:53:46 noobie question.... just run 'repo sync' then 'make' ... how do i run the android now? Oct 24 19:54:25 should i be concerned that my G1 hasnt got the update Oct 24 19:54:50 Mine has no update either, unless it was silent. Oct 24 19:55:45 Is the update mechanism that T-mobile uses for G1 in the android code that's been released? Oct 24 19:56:02 yes Oct 24 19:56:49 Poke around in the "recovery" directory. Oct 24 19:56:56 will do, thanks Oct 24 19:58:29 i'm having trouble inserting images into a content provider Oct 24 19:58:50 can somebody help me out? Oct 24 19:58:52 kingkung: don't use BLOB columns in sqlite3. Oct 24 19:58:57 i'm not Oct 24 19:59:00 i'm using Media.images Oct 24 19:59:08 Images.Media Oct 24 19:59:11 .insertImage Oct 24 19:59:17 and it's throwing an unsupportedOperationException Oct 24 19:59:28 not sure about that specifically, i havent used that code Oct 24 19:59:40 you might try checking the source code now thats its available, could give you an idea Oct 24 19:59:45 how about just storing an image in a file system? Oct 24 19:59:49 yeah, i have windows though Oct 24 20:00:03 donomo: according to the faq, no. and no and no and still no and even after a week, no.. Oct 24 20:02:47 hey guys Oct 24 20:02:53 does anybody know how to store an image in a contentprovider? Oct 24 20:03:05 or have none of you ever, ever had to do that in any of your apps? Oct 24 20:03:22 of course we have Oct 24 20:03:38 but the contentprovider you're looking at is code already written by google. it expects certain input that you clearly are not providing Oct 24 20:03:48 that's why i suggested you look at the source, to see what it expects you to do. Oct 24 20:03:54 hmm, gitweb doesnt have syntax highlighting? Oct 24 20:04:00 the documentation may also help, but quite frankly i bet it's out of date. Oct 24 20:04:03 really stupid question: I assume that it doesn't just want a signed update image - it wants one signed by a trusted party, correct? Oct 24 20:04:40 jasta: http://pastebin.com/m7764679c if this helps Oct 24 20:05:03 jasta: i would if i had a mac osx/unix box Oct 24 20:05:22 RyeBrye: production devices will not accept updates that aren't signed with the right key Oct 24 20:05:48 fadden: ok, I figured as much... but had to ask :) Oct 24 20:05:54 kingkung: browser the gitweb Oct 24 20:05:54 current version: kila-user 1.0 TC4-RC19 109652 ota-rel-keys,release-keys Oct 24 20:07:39 so no one has experience w/this "invisible shield" thing then? Oct 24 20:07:55 hmm...i guess maybe I'll give it a shot.. Oct 24 20:09:35 waldo_: i love mine Oct 24 20:09:44 want to help me out? order from www.gotontheinter.net associate link :) Oct 24 20:09:49 disconnect oh okay great that's all I needed to hear :) Oct 24 20:09:50 * Disconnect has it on the mbp and had it on the e90 Oct 24 20:09:59 and the wif stuck it on her bb screen but not the rest Oct 24 20:10:13 and it works nicely? Oct 24 20:10:13 its hit or miss how you'll like it on a touchscreen but its awesome as a case protector Oct 24 20:10:16 difficult to put on? or take off? Oct 24 20:10:30 what's the "miss" part on the touch screen? Oct 24 20:10:35 its slightly easier to put on than most screen protectors but only slightly. so you'll need a dust-free area nad patience Oct 24 20:10:38 texture Oct 24 20:10:56 i liked it well enough on most things (eg n800) but not so much on my mbp trackpad Oct 24 20:11:05 really? Does it make it harder to use? Oct 24 20:11:23 it's 100% transparant yah? Oct 24 20:11:23 ah... Oct 24 20:11:24 wonder how it would work on the g1? Any thoughts? Oct 24 20:11:36 i'm gonna put it on and if i don't like it, it comes right off Oct 24 20:11:38 * Disconnect preordered Oct 24 20:12:00 hard to remove? It has some kind of spray or something that makes it stick? What is that and how do you take it off? Oct 24 20:13:17 it just peels off, or the spray to make it easier (peeling might stretch it) Oct 24 20:13:25 afaict the spray is 90% water. might even be 100% water .. Oct 24 20:13:31 hmm okay... Oct 24 20:13:31 brb tho work Oct 24 20:13:35 thanks Oct 24 20:13:36 ordering. Oct 24 20:22:17 In theory - say the chip of the G1 was flashed outside of the device by some means to have the flash image replaced with one that was built from the source but not signed by T-mobile - would it boot, or does it only run signed code (in addition to only applying signed updates) Oct 24 20:22:27 back now (sorry, i broke an entire production subsystem. stupid typos.) Oct 24 20:23:13 I suppose I can dig throug the code now to find my own answer - but I figured I'd ask Oct 24 20:23:19 RyeBrye: if they're smart, it won't boot. but the google guys seem to expect it to get broken fairly easily/quickly, so my bet is that either you can subvert the bootloader more easily than reflashing the OS (and then just flash an unsigned image) or that it doesn't check signing Oct 24 20:23:20 Disconnect: "kill -1 9" and "kill -9 1" can produce very different results. Oct 24 20:23:32 heh Oct 24 20:23:35 fadden: so can forgetting to tell apache which mod_jk worker set to use.. Oct 24 20:23:52 lol Oct 24 20:23:59 (oops) Oct 24 20:24:06 I am having troubles taking pictures using the 1.0 SDK Oct 24 20:24:18 use a camera instead Oct 24 20:24:21 *rimshot* Oct 24 20:24:26 * Disconnect probably only impacted what, 5,000 live users? :( Oct 24 20:24:26 how's the callback for takePicture supposed to work... Oct 24 20:24:47 Regarding the term "Android," does google care if you put the word in your app's name? Oct 24 20:26:02 Anyone has some sample of saving picture to the phone using camera.. Oct 24 20:26:05 ? Oct 24 20:26:11 I hope not. I'm planning on naming my application GoogleGmailFroogle_iGoogleAndroidAdsenseBloggerCitizenTubeYouTubeFeedburnerFeedflareicassaPanoramioOpenSocialOrkutZingku helper Oct 24 20:26:12 sample? Oct 24 20:27:03 http://www.google.com/permissions/guidelines.html has their list of ways they will let you and not let you use their trademarks Oct 24 20:27:11 probably wont let you put it in the program name, but that's just a guess Oct 24 20:30:24 * mib_fdu9ex is confused Oct 24 20:30:54 oh god Oct 24 20:30:55 the name Oct 24 20:30:57 so long D: Oct 24 20:30:59 * vol explodes Oct 24 20:31:29 why would you want to? Oct 24 20:32:03 remember how windows 3.1 apps would all start with 'win'? winpoker windraw. it was lame :) Oct 24 20:32:04 I like it! (: Oct 24 20:32:18 donomo: or gnu Oct 24 20:32:22 One thing I love about google is the legalese in their trademark policies: "One of the conditions for all uses is that you can't mess around with our marks." Oct 24 20:32:24 that's awesome Oct 24 20:32:24 I found a better answer Oct 24 20:32:30 http://www.android.com/branding.html Oct 24 20:32:55 mib_fdu9ex, what are you wanting? To see a picture taken with a G1? Oct 24 20:32:57 yeah that's pretty clear :) Oct 24 20:32:58 so the answer is, yet they will release the hounds if you use android in your title, unless it's "For Android(tm)" Oct 24 20:33:09 The funny thing is that they don't want you to use their font Oct 24 20:33:09 lol Oct 24 20:33:27 tmccrary: they spell norad with their font.. funny Oct 24 20:33:42 I can see the android thing, but the font "restriction" is stupid. Oct 24 20:34:31 tmarble: it's branding Oct 24 20:35:04 android-ish words seem popular. TwitterDroid. Oct 24 20:35:47 The page should read: "The custom typeface may not used. If you WANT to use the typeface, you have bad taste in fonts and should stick to 'comic sans' - which is inevitably your second choice" Oct 24 20:36:10 romainguy_: hey that branding page tmccrary links to has a typo. the hex color is A4C639 Oct 24 20:36:20 yeah we're on it already Oct 24 20:36:23 linked* Oct 24 20:36:24 we cant use the typeface? ouch :( Oct 24 20:36:34 VickiWong: the typeface of the android logo Oct 24 20:36:37 not the Droid font Oct 24 20:36:43 umdk1d3: lemme know when you get a new connectbot for testing Oct 24 20:36:45 We have top men searching for the missing 6. Oct 24 20:36:55 But it's interesting that you can do whatever the hell you want to the droid logo - poor guy. Oct 24 20:36:57 getting there :) Oct 24 20:37:10 btw.. has anyone here managed to save image from camera to phone? Oct 24 20:37:19 cool Oct 24 20:37:39 disconnect there's a new one this morning Oct 24 20:37:41 fadden: What kind of men? Oct 24 20:37:49 mib_fdu9ex: packages/apps/Camera ? Oct 24 20:37:55 tmarble: the top kind Oct 24 20:37:57 tmccrary: top. menu. Oct 24 20:38:03 s/menu/men/ Oct 24 20:38:03 lol Oct 24 20:38:04 fadden meant: tmccrary: top. men. Oct 24 20:38:05 :) Oct 24 20:38:09 (I hate it when I step on silly jokes) Oct 24 20:38:10 waldo_: ahh ok i'm behind then :) Oct 24 20:38:32 fadden: I had been looking at it.. the source from source.android.com ... seems like that's the best choice Oct 24 20:39:19 disconnect I think it fixes the install probelm but I haven't tried it.. only one line changed in the manifest Oct 24 20:39:28 mib_fdu9ex, your question, to me, isn't making sense. Are you talking in software? Simply saving a picture so you can do seomthing with ir, or what? Oct 24 20:39:30 ah well it installed fine yesterday :/ Oct 24 20:39:36 disconnect oh it didn't for me Oct 24 20:39:39 not the svn version Oct 24 20:39:49 i've been running whatever umdk1d3 posts Oct 24 20:40:06 "similar to ‘Android’, e.g., 'Droid', may not be used in a name" words similar to android may not be used? that seems like it may be a bit hard to enforce no? Oct 24 20:40:14 jcw: I had a working code in m5 that took a picture from camera and saved to a location in phone.. Oct 24 20:40:33 OK, so you're asking about a software method to do it. Sorry, can't help you there. Oct 24 20:40:43 VickiWong: enforcement of trademark infringement is not a new problem. Oct 24 20:40:53 jcw: isn't this dev group? Oct 24 20:41:12 Yes, but it doesn't mean I know how to do that. Oct 24 20:41:43 hmm Oct 24 20:41:59 VickiWong: yeah trying to protect 'droid' seems like a stretch Oct 24 20:42:20 donomo: yeah, excluding names 'similar Oct 24 20:42:26 seems a stretch Oct 24 20:42:33 My wife's benn telling me every time she exits an area with no signal (elevators..) her G1 doesn't reaquire a carrier (t-mobile) Oct 24 20:42:37 *been Oct 24 20:43:16 Disconnect: btw there are ppl idling in #connectbot for updates Oct 24 20:43:26 * donomo prays the update gods will send a blessing down to my G1 Oct 24 20:43:27 cool Oct 24 20:43:33 what is #connectbot? Oct 24 20:44:51 salve @ll Oct 24 20:44:55 RyeBrye: ssh client Oct 24 20:45:02 I hope they have something to entertain them, because TM says updates will be running through the 31st. Oct 24 20:46:26 are there release notes? Oct 24 20:46:27 umdk1d3 -- newest svn63 or whatever it was also does not install successfully over 1.0 Oct 24 20:46:38 connectbot is the ssh client Oct 24 20:53:04 waldo: I built r62 of connectbot and it installs and runs fine Oct 24 20:53:43 :\ Oct 24 20:54:13 Dalvik's implementation of the org.w3c.dom doesn't include a method to grab the content of a Node Oct 24 20:54:39 i.e., getTextContent() Oct 24 20:54:41 * Disconnect got r62 off the web, it installs fine (not over the old one but remove the other one and then install) at least via adb. but it doesn't connect :( Oct 24 20:55:23 Can't speak to the r62 build off the web Oct 24 20:55:54 are short and long the only durations you can set for Toast messages? Oct 24 20:55:55 can you set a custom duration? Oct 24 20:56:43 LENGTH_SUPER_LONG? Oct 24 20:56:47 lol Oct 24 20:57:01 UNCOMFORTABLY_LONG Oct 24 20:57:07 really Oct 24 20:57:21 PAINFULLY_LONG Oct 24 20:57:30 LONG_CAT_LONG Oct 24 20:57:46 IRC_JOKE_CARRIED_TOO_FAR_LONG Oct 24 20:57:58 really what i need is the toast to show and cancel when i tell it to Oct 24 20:58:37 ECAPSLOCK Oct 24 20:59:29 i think you guys missed national caps lock day by a smidge. Oct 24 20:59:56 lol Oct 24 20:59:59 Everyday is national caps lock day when you have an AOL account. Oct 24 21:00:09 ha Oct 24 21:00:35 do most googlers use git internally as well? Oct 24 21:01:04 we use a variety of tools Oct 24 21:02:00 mpardo: if you want to control its visibility, you're better off creating a Dialog using the background of a Toast. Oct 24 21:02:27 jbq: i assumed, looking for a spread essentially. "I would say most of us use SVN, a lot of new projects have moved to git...becuz itz the new hawtness" Oct 24 21:02:31 something along those lines... Oct 24 21:03:07 What? No Visual Source Safe? Oct 24 21:03:50 ogad D: Oct 24 21:03:54 don't say the word VSS Oct 24 21:03:57 I used it at my last job Oct 24 21:04:27 I wouldn't take a job if they wanted me to use VSS - and fortunately the market is hot enough that you can make decisions based on stuff like that Oct 24 21:07:40 I wonder why speech recognition is not in the reference documentation... Oct 24 21:08:07 Is it true speech recognition - or just like most phones do and it's matching noises to pre-recorded sounds? Oct 24 21:08:37 RyeBrye, I don't know, I just found it in the sources Oct 24 21:08:39 (i.e. you record the noise "padoummmabbooom" to call home and whenever you say somethign close to that it does your action regardless of what word you are trying to do) Oct 24 21:08:43 jeld - interesting Oct 24 21:08:57 RyeBrye, voice dialing uses it, so I went out looking for docs Oct 24 21:09:11 RyeBrye, and found that it is nowhere in the reference Oct 24 21:09:19 That is strange Oct 24 21:09:29 For voice dialing - you do have to record a sound first before you can say that word, right? Oct 24 21:09:36 RyeBrye: no Oct 24 21:09:45 Oh... really? it does actual voice recognition? Oct 24 21:09:48 under the source home it is in frameworks/base/core/java/android/speech/recognition Oct 24 21:09:59 That IS pretty sweet Oct 24 21:10:39 RyeBrye, judging from the file names it might actually be real recognition :) Oct 24 21:10:40 Of course, why wouldn't it have that... I'm sure the phone is typing up everything it hears you say and sending it to Google so they can better serve adwords to you :) Oct 24 21:10:43 ;) Oct 24 21:11:07 Version 2 of Android will have a screen with suggestions for you: Oct 24 21:11:16 RyeBrye, a question, did you really do the whole "get firmware by blinking LED" trick? What did you use to execute the code? Oct 24 21:11:34 RyeBrye: as a linguist, I'm offended that they didn't use Unicode IPA symbols :o) Oct 24 21:11:47 you cunning linguist you Oct 24 21:11:52 :/ Oct 24 21:12:05 * languish goes back to his hole Oct 24 21:12:08 gdsx, Unicode Indian Pale Ale? Oct 24 21:12:11 languish: I'm also quite masterful and fishing and baiting Oct 24 21:12:25 jeld: international phonetic alphabet Oct 24 21:12:33 gdsx, just kidding Oct 24 21:12:36 :o) Oct 24 21:12:42 jeld - Yes, I really did that. The real trick was that the Canon cameras have a recovery kind of feature where it will run compiled code off of a "bootable" SD card from a file with a special name - usually Diskboot.bin - so it was just a matter of cross compiling a simple C program that scans through to find the memory address of the different LEDs - and then once you find the memory addresses you want to use, using a another program to blink out Oct 24 21:12:42 the firmware Oct 24 21:13:13 so it was more of a feature than a crack :) Oct 24 21:13:27 I guess you could say that Oct 24 21:13:34 hahaha Oct 24 21:13:45 RyeBrye, there seems to be quite a bit of misinformation floating around, people seem to think you got the G1 firmware that way Oct 24 21:13:52 Oh - I didn't get teh G1 firmware - no Oct 24 21:13:56 That's hilarious Oct 24 21:14:05 hahaha Oct 24 21:14:08 RyeBrye, yes, that would involve installing a focus LED first :) Oct 24 21:14:16 I don't even have a G1 yet Oct 24 21:14:24 so... no, I most definitely have NOT extracted the G1 firmware yet Oct 24 21:14:25 RyeBrye, and buying a G1 :) Oct 24 21:14:28 I bought one Oct 24 21:14:29 people need to learn that reading is fundamental, but reading comprehension is essential Oct 24 21:14:35 T-mobile just hasn't told me when they are sending it to me yet Oct 24 21:14:41 languish, you said it Oct 24 21:14:53 RyeBrye, easier to go to a store I guess Oct 24 21:14:53 RyeBrye: watch out; you might become the Paul Bunyan of the 90's children Oct 24 21:15:24 or worse, the shoemaker... Oct 24 21:15:24 Yeah, but they don't have stores that sell them in Utah :( Oct 24 21:15:38 who killed 7 G's with 1 blow Oct 24 21:16:07 RyeBrye you realize how ironic it is that they don't sell G1's in Utah? Oct 24 21:16:39 Particularly with the tmo upper echelons being devout mormons Oct 24 21:16:42 --> AndNav Live-Photos: http://www.andnav.org/ Oct 24 21:17:04 sweet Oct 24 21:17:09 Yeah, that is sad Oct 24 21:17:25 RyeBrye, I find it to be hilarious Oct 24 21:17:43 plusminus_: what data set is this? Oct 24 21:17:45 though you have my empathy Oct 24 21:18:15 Yeah, it was a canon camera that I blinked the firmware - and given an entire OS with source code I think that using a blinking light would be a bit ludicrous considering the thing probably has a lot faster ways to get the firmware out of it Oct 24 21:19:30 Even if the production firmware doesn't have debug symbols in it - I imagine reverse engineering it and doing function signature scanning would be pretty damn easy considering the source code is all released Oct 24 21:19:58 romainguy this is still GoogleMaps-Data but it is NO realtime turn-by-turn navigation BUT static, just like the Android-Maps app. Oct 24 21:20:03 Yeah, we could just consult the "intersect" and send Chuck to retrieve it all from HTC :| Oct 24 21:20:50 IDA pro is wonderful for scanning an unknown binary chunk of ARM instructions and searching for known method signatures, and then labeling them for you Oct 24 21:21:07 plusminus_: but the Google logo doesn't appear :) Oct 24 21:21:21 ? Oct 24 21:21:32 the ToS says that the Google logo in the bottom left corner must remain visible Oct 24 21:21:37 aw it does Oct 24 21:21:37 you're hiding it Oct 24 21:21:42 ah that.. Oct 24 21:21:47 wait a second.. Oct 24 21:22:05 no waiting Oct 24 21:22:08 the helicopters are there now Oct 24 21:22:19 omg I'm gonna die... Oct 24 21:22:20 ironically, they used a beta version of your application to find you Oct 24 21:23:27 Good beta, 'eh? You like? Oct 24 21:23:41 the andnav? looks cool Oct 24 21:23:46 v. annoyed that t-mob can't manage to provide me with internet for my internet phone. Oct 24 21:25:34 wastrel - I'm annoyed that tmobile wont even tell me when to expect my phone Oct 24 21:25:34 i want to know how to write mini chat application between adnroid mobilephones in a p2p, can i use xmpp or it's not supported currently based on android ? Oct 24 21:25:49 http://uploads.mibbit.com/up/RIb3yQWi.jpg Oct 24 21:26:07 lol Oct 24 21:26:20 plusminus_, mayhap some transparency Oct 24 21:26:35 romainguy That GoogleMaps "Logo" appears when the Maps-App starts... Oct 24 21:26:49 ? Oct 24 21:26:57 plusminus_: but the ToS says it has to remain visible on the map itself Oct 24 21:27:37 http://waynepan.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/android-streetview1.png << the logo that appears in the bottom left corner Oct 24 21:27:43 they basically want a station ID visible at all times Oct 24 21:28:30 then we can use an app that removes the station id during use :D Oct 24 21:28:34 I can see why Oct 24 21:28:50 otherwise people will think you bought your own satellite system to create a mapping thing Oct 24 21:28:57 romainguy xD maybe I can print that Google-String to another location, maybe vertical on the left side? Oct 24 21:28:57 though we love google, so we'd never ever do such a thing Oct 24 21:29:17 plusminus_ is it going to be open source? Oct 24 21:29:27 parts of it yes Oct 24 21:29:33 ...they are already Oct 24 21:29:42 plusminus_ - just put the logo on there... but comment out the line that makes it display without the logo Oct 24 21:29:49 ... problem solved! :) Oct 24 21:29:51 ppl any comment ? Oct 24 21:29:58 jasta: I heard you had some 2g/3g interaction problems ? Oct 24 21:29:59 all those who violate the TOS do so at their own peril Oct 24 21:30:03 plusminus_: check with the advocates Oct 24 21:30:15 romainguy JasonChen ? Oct 24 21:30:20 sure Oct 24 21:30:25 thx Oct 24 21:30:43 * tmarble would like turn-by-turn navigation :) Oct 24 21:31:56 romainguy_: slt... ça va bien? is it normal that different -dpi-device settings do *not* result in the icons showing up as different shapes in the emulator? Oct 24 21:32:07 tmarble: Your bathroom is up from your chair, down the hall, and to the left. Oct 24 21:32:17 tmarble: Further directions not available on maps ;) Oct 24 21:32:20 tmarble: different shapes? Oct 24 21:32:20 jbailey: hahahaha Oct 24 21:32:51 romainguy_: first of all, kudos for all the work on resolution independence!!! I remember discussions of that dream from the good ol' days! Oct 24 21:33:03 we're not quite there yet though :) Oct 24 21:33:35 romainguy_: i was sort of expecting that high dpi would result in bigger logos and text in the emulator..... I'm experimenting with *really large* emulation screens Oct 24 21:34:44 it should have the same physical size Oct 24 21:34:55 at least the text Oct 24 21:35:25 ok, so iiuc, on a 100dpi device 100px = 1 inch, on a 200dpi device 200px = 1 inch, right? Oct 24 21:35:54 that's right Oct 24 21:35:56 tmarble: Right, but your bitmap images suddenly get way smaller. Oct 24 21:36:13 jbailey: which is why we try to use ninepatches and dip instead of px dimensions wherever we can Oct 24 21:36:19 but Home is not fully there Oct 24 21:36:29 for instance it makes all icons 48x48px, not 48x48dip Oct 24 21:36:43 that's where it's useful to use alternate resource directories Oct 24 21:36:53 like drawable-whatever/ Oct 24 21:37:15 so i've launched the emulator with -dpi-device 100 / -dpi-device 200 / -dpi-device 300 but the icons are the same Oct 24 21:37:25 donc voila! 48px <-- that's why! Oct 24 21:37:31 yep Oct 24 21:37:56 i want to know how to write mini chat application between adnroid mobilephones in a p2p, can i use xmpp or it's not supported currently based on android ? Oct 24 21:38:00 is that an easy hack -- or are icons really tricky? Oct 24 21:38:23 it's tricky Oct 24 21:38:42 and the quality of the result will vary greatly on the resolution of the original bitmap Oct 24 21:39:08 if your icon is 48x48px in a PNG file but we need to stretch it to 96x96 to keep the same physical resolution, we're in trouble Oct 24 21:39:14 romainguy_: how hard would it be for me to make a Home replacement with dip icons, no status bar, and a "folder" metaphor instead of a "pull tab"??? Oct 24 21:39:36 tmarble: look at the SDK samples, there's the code of the M5 Home screen Oct 24 21:39:44 the status bar is not part of Home Oct 24 21:39:46 in my case I can make big icons (then scaling down isn't a problem) Oct 24 21:39:50 yes Oct 24 21:39:56 but scaling down has issues Oct 24 21:40:00 it takes a lot of memory Oct 24 21:40:08 which doesn't help with lots of apps installed Oct 24 21:40:14 and it slows down startup by a lot Oct 24 21:40:21 Home has to do quite a lot of work when it starts Oct 24 21:40:22 right, but i'm dreaming of a device with more memory than the G1 Oct 24 21:40:31 still Oct 24 21:40:45 you will still be generating tons of garbage and triggering GCs that will slow down things even more Oct 24 21:41:05 "no work" is always faster than "not much work" Oct 24 21:41:06 that's why, again, it's better to use resource directories adapter to various config Oct 24 21:41:11 so I pay a startup tax... got it.... once the DVM is hot then I'm good, right? Oct 24 21:41:19 er, no Oct 24 21:41:43 the DVM doesn't get "hot" Oct 24 21:41:51 ah Oct 24 21:41:56 there's also another issue Oct 24 21:42:09 if you scale an icon by more than half its size, the result will be crappy Oct 24 21:42:22 so again, you really want to use specific resources Oct 24 21:42:34 so when do you support SVG icons? Oct 24 21:42:37 * tmarble hides Oct 24 21:42:42 that doesn't help either Oct 24 21:42:46 * fadden was beaten to the punch by tmarble Oct 24 21:42:48 it's actually probably worse :) Oct 24 21:42:57 I don't know if you can do it, but I hope can just create drawable directories for various dpis Oct 24 21:43:03 like drawable-200dpi Oct 24 21:43:14 and you have several versions of your icon Oct 24 21:43:15 i see -- with *.png icons for each? Oct 24 21:43:18 * fadden owes romainguy_ for a JIT remark. We all have our 3-letter acronym burdens. Oct 24 21:43:19 right Oct 24 21:43:34 but then you increase the size of the .apk :)) Oct 24 21:43:47 got it... now can i get rid of the status bar and/or have a "full screen" activity? Oct 24 21:43:58 fadden: I'm gonna cry next time someone asks me if Skia is vector-based :) Oct 24 21:44:09 tmarble: use the theme Theme.NoTitleBar.Fullscreen Oct 24 21:44:33 romainguy_: merci! I'll rtfm Oct 24 21:45:10 I hear Skia uses a JIT to convert SVG to OpenGL 2.0 textures! Oct 24 21:45:50 fadden: we use generational mark-and-sweep-compact SVG textures actually Oct 24 21:46:16 jaikumar: yes, but i found the DownloadProvider you guys have and got quite a few ideas of how to improve my interaction with the [unstable] network Oct 24 21:46:48 jaikumar: in particular, i'm pulling back my read timeouts to just 15s and triggering a retry when that fails. this way the system can switch networks pretty easily if something isn't working optimally Oct 24 21:47:23 jaikumar: but it does seem to be that if you frequently switch between 2G/3G, network connections will just stall rather than automatically pick up on the new frequency Oct 24 21:48:14 so when does this happen .. when u r downloading something or when u browsing the web ? Oct 24 21:48:57 when my application is downloading a file over HTTP. Oct 24 21:49:56 or u switching b/w 2g and 3g on ur own or is it the tmobile network thats doing it ? Oct 24 21:50:25 it's t-mobile doing it because the 3G signal is lost Oct 24 21:50:34 and then suddenly reappearing. service is terrible in my house. Oct 24 21:51:04 i was just testing it walking around my house with large downloads and they would inevitably stall Oct 24 21:51:25 my read timeouts were high, though, so it wouldn't restart itself until the timeout was reached and the connection was retried from scratch Oct 24 21:51:46 wow 1 MB/s only to transfer Oct 24 21:53:09 jaikumar: is this not supposed to happen? should the radio handle this automatically? Oct 24 21:56:41 jasta: well 3g / 2g should transition seamlessly.. Oct 24 21:56:58 it might take time depending on how good the signal is Oct 24 21:57:17 (never) Oct 24 21:57:32 jaikumar: transparent to the OS or the user? Oct 24 21:57:33 Seamless? I'd expect that at least there'd be a new DHCP negotiation done on the new network, which would down the interface on the phone and cause the existing sockets to drop (although that wouldn't explain a hang....) Oct 24 21:57:38 jaikumar: well, how much time? because i waited for minutes Oct 24 21:57:44 transparent to the user.. Oct 24 21:58:12 i'm guessing transition on other devices is handled via increasing the TCP window? Oct 24 21:58:14 jaikumar: this behaviour is pretty easy to reproduce in my house. just walking around will do this... Oct 24 21:58:34 Which is likely done using some 3rd party software, that way it's totally transparent to the OS. Oct 24 21:58:34 I'd file a bug against jasta's house Oct 24 21:58:59 Assign it to Ty Pennington and the extreme makeover team? Oct 24 21:59:36 jaikumar: i can hack up a simple downloader app and ask it to download something huge then walk around to try to debug if you'd like. in the meantime, i'm adjusting my code to reel in read timeouts so that it can detect this case at the network layer Oct 24 22:00:50 jasta: thanks .. it works for me right now .. so let me look into it .. will get back to you Oct 24 22:03:26 jaikumar: do you have something that tests this i can load onto my phone? Oct 24 22:03:40 So the G1 has h264 accelerated playback I've read - but never heard yet if it will like files that are created for the iPod or AppleTV Oct 24 22:03:47 (i.e. encoding formats, bitrates... etc) Oct 24 22:04:04 QARRRRGGHHH Oct 24 22:04:14 Email App crashed Oct 24 22:04:32 check "adb logcat" ? Oct 24 22:04:48 I don't have it set up Oct 24 22:05:04 RyeBrye: It can't play DRMed files, no Oct 24 22:05:12 RyeBrye: beyond that, I'm not really sure Oct 24 22:05:49 I received a fall while writing, it saved as draft, I took the call, went back to continue, finished the email, hit send.. and process com.android.mail stopped unexpectedly error Oct 24 22:05:50 gdsx - I wasn't thinking of DRM'ed files... just wondering what kind of bitrates and such it likes since I already have encoded a bunch of stuff using handbrake's "ipod High Rez" setting Oct 24 22:06:04 fall/call Oct 24 22:06:34 jasta: one more question: When the device transitions b.w 2g and 3g, does the download never restart and restarts after a long long time ? Oct 24 22:06:34 RyeBrye: I'd say "try it and see" Oct 24 22:06:39 howdy Oct 24 22:06:43 this was a google e-mail addy, but in the e-mail not gmail client Oct 24 22:06:50 anyone have any word on the sprint phone? Oct 24 22:06:51 * RyeBrye thinks the word 'unexpectedly' should be be banned from use in exceptions Oct 24 22:06:56 RyeBrye: (I can't remember if the media player's in the SDK, but it might be) Oct 24 22:07:05 I'll check and see Oct 24 22:07:11 RyeBrye: haha Oct 24 22:07:14 RyeBrye: unfortunately there are expected exceptions, e.g. during class loading Oct 24 22:07:22 jaikumar: well, of course my socket eventually times out and then my application logic triggers a new connection Oct 24 22:07:40 but the timeout is HttpClient default, which is really high. 2 minutes or something. Oct 24 22:08:09 gdsx: it is. Oct 24 22:08:19 fadden - point taken... but it should at least be removed from the display :) It's like "Oh, you weren't expecting to crash right now? That's refreshing" Oct 24 22:08:32 RyeBrye: look at external/opencore Oct 24 22:08:46 jasta - for the media player? Oct 24 22:08:55 yes, thats where the PVPlayer is. Oct 24 22:09:02 thanks Oct 24 22:09:20 i show that it supports avc h264 and m4v h263 just by a quick ls :) Oct 24 22:11:07 I know it supports those formats - but it no doubt has limitations on what it can playback... i.e. It obviously can't play back a 720p 13.5 megabit h264 videoclip Oct 24 22:11:46 because if it could, it would be better than most desktop computers out right now Oct 24 22:11:48 oh no, it's DannyB Oct 24 22:12:20 * donomo pictures a G1 over each eye for 3D vision Oct 24 22:12:35 hi! Oct 24 22:13:55 * waldo_ is away: eating Oct 24 22:16:28 Curses, no bookmarklet support in the Android browser. Oct 24 22:18:51 Heh, I'd settle for a better bookmark UI first, much less active stuff. Oct 24 22:20:23 romainguy_: i've been reading about (the lack of) an on screen keyboard, also issue #578 ... do you know if there is any effort to have an OSK which will work for any app (i.e. not it's own activity, but could provide input to any activity)? Oct 24 22:21:27 1Q 2009 Oct 24 22:21:44 hey question: is it possible, based on the SDK, to make an application that only uses the locking feature on an App-By-App, user selected basis? Oct 24 22:21:48 Laz: any more pointers? Oct 24 22:21:53 tmarble: it's due out with the IMF due out in early 2009 Oct 24 22:22:09 tmarble: we're working on it Oct 24 22:22:25 excellent! Oct 24 22:29:12 16gb micro sd will work yes? Oct 24 22:29:44 yes Oct 24 22:29:47 If you can find one, I believe the answer is yes. I have one on order, but no direct experience. Oct 24 22:30:00 I'm in messaging, reviewing messages on the sim card. I choose one, press and select copy to phone memory.. go to the browser, or the Quiklist app, and try menu-v to paste, and it doesn't work... Oct 24 22:31:24 ah, it copies to the messaging app Oct 24 22:32:00 question about market and android system software updates--it seems market has no built in display of when an app was last updated, so this brings the question to light--does the system notify you when updates to apps or updates to android itself are available? Oct 24 22:36:25 "select copy to phone memory" << that's not copy to the clipboard Oct 24 22:37:27 romainguy, nod. I've come to realize it Oct 24 22:38:32 at least once in memory, I can get the url in that message to open in the browser Oct 24 22:38:42 which was what I was attempting to accomplish Oct 24 22:46:59 jbailey: where's the right place to ask why even a binary, closed com.google.android.maps is not included in the repo? romainguy_ made it clear that it's closed http://ub0.cc/9b/C so how do we get to the mash ups... scavenge bits from the SDK/android.jar? Oct 24 22:47:49 tmarble: I can't recommend that, since I think that violates the clickthrough. I'd ask on-list. Oct 24 22:47:51 you won't find it in android.jar from the SDK Oct 24 22:49:04 jar tvf android.jar | grep -i maps shows com/google/android/maps/MapActivity.class Oct 24 22:49:57 jbailey: on android-platform? Oct 24 22:50:19 int timeInterval = settings.getInt("timeInterval", 1); intervalTimeSpinner.setSelection(timeInterval); shouldn't this work? Oct 24 22:50:24 where is android.jar? Oct 24 22:50:33 E/MapActivity( 5239): Couldn't get connection factory client Oct 24 22:50:35 android.jar just contains stubs Oct 24 22:50:41 gotcha Oct 24 22:50:51 any idea how to fix that? itsa MapActivity that was working fine in the emulator. Oct 24 22:50:53 tmarble: Yep Oct 24 22:50:54 so disassembling it wouldn't even matter anyway Oct 24 22:51:08 hmm so i have a textview with autoLink and it discolors the non-linked text--is this a bug, or is there a good way to fix it? Oct 24 22:51:24 * jbailey thinks that this is a good time to look at another windows. =) Oct 24 22:52:00 androoid: yup, it doesn't set the selected item? Oct 24 22:52:16 it's throwing a exception Oct 24 22:52:36 umdl1d3: discolors in what way? Oct 24 22:52:50 illuminum: there's some work underway to provide a mechanism to get updated when there's a update available for a Market app. Oct 24 22:53:15 and to set the settings... editor.putInt("timeInterval", ((Spinner)findViewById(R.id.timeIntervalSpinner)).getSelectedItemPosition()); Oct 24 22:53:33 jbailey: you are right... clause 3.3 says you cannot modify the SDK.... (and it's stubs anyway) all-righty Oct 24 22:53:47 you're missing a .commit() on the end of your editor... line Oct 24 22:54:25 i have it after that Oct 24 22:54:29 didn't want to paste the full code Oct 24 22:54:55 androoid: k, what exception are you seeing? Oct 24 22:55:15 let me try to pull it up Oct 24 22:55:43 can't copy and paste from logcat :/ Oct 24 22:56:47 androoid: what's the type of the exception? Oct 24 22:56:48 java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to start activity ComponentInfo{com.company/com.class.class}: java.lang.String Oct 24 22:57:00 hmm Oct 24 22:57:09 there should be another chained exception Oct 24 22:57:13 that's more meaningful Oct 24 22:57:20 there we go Oct 24 22:57:30 do i need a gmaps key of some sort? the mapactivity shows a map in the emulator, but a blank grey grid on the G1 Oct 24 22:57:34 Caused by: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String Oct 24 22:57:56 at android.app.ApplicationContext$SharedPreferencesImpl.getInt(ApplicationContext.java) Oct 24 22:58:16 interesting Oct 24 22:58:25 try clearing your data.. looks like you had a string value for that key previously Oct 24 22:58:30 oh! Oct 24 22:58:31 (that app's data I mean) Oct 24 22:58:44 that is right Oct 24 22:59:49 nooo it's doing it again Oct 24 23:00:26 i think this method is brokens Oct 24 23:00:38 does a podcast reader exist for android yet? Oct 24 23:01:06 androoid: the SharedPreferences.get/putInt are used by others without the exception you're seeing Oct 24 23:01:07 or podcast subscriber or whatever...? Oct 24 23:01:08 podcast viewer? Oct 24 23:01:19 androoid: are you sure you're not writing a strign value to it somewhere else in yoru code? Oct 24 23:01:41 androoid: try getString("timeInterval") and see what value it returns Oct 24 23:02:31 romainguy_: i think i do have a getSTring("timeInterval") somewhere Oct 24 23:02:43 I was using editbox before i found out how to use spinner Oct 24 23:02:48 hi Oct 24 23:02:54 i jsut landed here Oct 24 23:03:06 hm, should i be creating a new activity for every screen of my app? Oct 24 23:03:15 I am the anbdroid called TAmpert Oct 24 23:03:23 lol Oct 24 23:03:27 or minimizing the # of activities and just use setcontextview() more often Oct 24 23:03:38 technical room ? Oct 24 23:03:44 routing ? Oct 24 23:04:02 must be sree ya Oct 24 23:04:08 Ramblurr: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/8e02e69419ebbe56 Oct 24 23:04:27 i happened to read about it earlier Oct 24 23:04:56 androoid: ah thanks :) Oct 24 23:06:05 where do I search for and file bugs ? Oct 24 23:06:07 If I answer a call on my bluetooth speaker phone, and then transfer the call back to my phone...android doesn't recognize that the usb headset is plugged in. I have to unplug and replug my usb headset to get it to work. Oct 24 23:06:26 osmosis: http://source.android.com/ Oct 24 23:06:44 i just did Oct 24 23:06:45 String timeInterval = settings.getString("timeInterval", ""); Oct 24 23:06:53 and it gave me 60, instead of the int position Oct 24 23:16:18 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 24 23:22:55 enf: with white text on dark background, touching "normal" non-linked text causes it to go dark grey Oct 24 23:23:26 could it be because im setting android:textAppearance to ...Small? Oct 24 23:23:34 *android:textAppearance="?android:attr/textAppearanceSmall" Oct 24 23:27:52 umdk1d3: yes, it's because of the textAppearance... unfortunately in the default styles, small implies dim Oct 24 23:28:14 ahh :/ Oct 24 23:28:47 gmap key fixed the problem. :) Oct 24 23:31:25 I've compiled android and am running the emulator on a linux box. However, there is no networking for the emulated android. I know I saw something about this yesterday on the net, but now I can't find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Oct 24 23:32:02 sounds like qemu might not be NAT'ing correctly Oct 24 23:33:19 does android support svg graphics? Oct 24 23:33:59 Pretty sure webkit does svg, so my guess is yes. Haven't tested that in the browser though. Oct 24 23:34:21 if i bring up the terminal and issue an ifconfig, there is no info Oct 24 23:34:27 i was thinking for for ImageView Oct 24 23:34:51 So, I'm not certain that it is even recognizing any sort of network device. Oct 24 23:34:51 so i could use icons, buttons, etc, made from SVGs that i could resize on the fly Oct 24 23:35:03 to fit various resolutions Oct 24 23:35:06 It is also difficult to parse files as using grep results in an error Oct 24 23:36:33 Ramblurr: I see that the source to calculator includes an svg file, so one would presume the answer is yes. Oct 24 23:36:35 oh! there is no greg or less command Oct 24 23:36:55 andyross: cool.. i'll play around with it Oct 24 23:43:16 hmm Oct 24 23:43:45 enf: so im trying to track down the exact definition of textAppearanceSmall Oct 24 23:44:08 ive found the framework base.git, but dont really see the xml definitions in there of android.R.attr Oct 24 23:45:04 wait i think im getting warmer now Oct 24 23:45:33 aha! i found the attr definition, but now need to find the style itself Oct 24 23:46:30 yay i found it! =D Oct 24 23:46:50 line 443 of core/res/res/values/styles.xml; Oct 24 23:47:10 anyone working on porting python or ruby to android? Oct 24 23:48:15 does jython work Oct 24 23:50:39 is the widget ToggleButton still there? Oct 24 23:51:10 oops Oct 24 23:53:01 umdk1d3: yeah, sorry, you have to bounce back and forth between styles.xml and themes.xml Oct 24 23:53:24 grr so aparently some of these colors are private :/ Oct 24 23:53:42 so i cant copy over core/res/res/color/secondary_text_dark.xml to make slight tweaks in my app Oct 24 23:54:39 is that the expected behavior though? "pressing" something makes it go inverse? Oct 24 23:54:51 i suppose if these styles are also used by buttons maybe? Oct 24 23:55:10 yeah, the buttons are where the color changes really make sense Oct 24 23:56:49 hmm is is possible to have some sort of inheritance with styles? so i could inherit and override just the pressed to be non-inverted? Oct 24 23:57:57 well, with styles proper it is, so if you have one named Foo.Bar.Baz, it is supposed to inherit the styles from Foo.Bar Oct 24 23:58:05 but color resources don't have any inheritance Oct 24 23:59:22 (like the way Widget.Button.Small inherits from Widget.Button in styles.xml) Oct 24 23:59:37 hmm Oct 24 23:59:51 but i still would need a complete color definition, which i cant get access to some of those private colors Oct 25 00:00:09 Does the Androidchat .apk from googlecode work for anyone directly downloaded from the site? http://androidchat.googlecode.com/files/androidChat.apk Oct 25 00:00:09 *get access to, meaning cant borrow them in a user app Oct 25 00:01:07 umd1d3: well, you have the source now... you can copy the colors xml file and change it however you want Oct 25 00:01:22 enf: right :/ but its always better to reference in case something changes Oct 25 00:01:32 For me, it downloads, and I can choose to install it, but nothing occurs when I do. (androidchat) Oct 25 00:01:42 languish: that apk was created back in april--i think its still back in m5 days Oct 25 00:01:53 Just wondering if it's another device specific quirk Oct 25 00:02:08 umdk1d3: true... but i don't think there's a better way to do it in this case Oct 25 00:02:24 umdk1d3, ahh ok thanks Oct 25 00:02:25 resource inheritance is just kind of a mess Oct 25 00:02:35 its somewhat cool though :) Oct 25 00:02:44 keeps people from reinventing the wheel Oct 25 00:14:26 I thought that Android would drop the price of phones? Oct 25 00:14:39 $399 retail does not seem like much of a reduction Oct 25 00:14:48 iphone was 500 retail, yes? Oct 25 00:14:48 for the G1 Oct 25 00:15:02 Well thats Mac, and they are Elite Oct 25 00:15:12 and their hardware is superior to G1's Oct 25 00:15:25 After_Math: thats not too bad... for an unlocked phone. Oct 25 00:15:28 your face is superior to my fist Oct 25 00:15:30 OHSNAp Oct 25 00:15:30 lol Oct 25 00:15:33 j/k Oct 25 00:15:41 umdk1d3: ... wouldn't your fist be superior to his face? Oct 25 00:15:45 yea yea Oct 25 00:15:47 i just read it Oct 25 00:15:50 LOL haha Oct 25 00:15:56 yeah, and how little sense you made? Oct 25 00:15:56 heh Oct 25 00:16:07 umdk1d3, you dont want to break your fist on my face bro Oct 25 00:16:09 it was a horrible comeback :P Oct 25 00:16:13 in the world of foot, fist, face, foot and fist always win against face. Oct 25 00:16:16 yeah it was. Oct 25 00:16:40 yeah. its like rock paper scissors when you replace paper with wet paper. Oct 25 00:17:21 I dont know, I really dont know what to think of Android and the G1 right now Oct 25 00:17:38 what do you want to think of it? Oct 25 00:17:38 let's go smoke a dougie! Oct 25 00:17:39 carefully separate the software and hardware Oct 25 00:17:46 well, i'm kind of excited. i should be getting my G1 on monday! Oct 25 00:17:58 f00f-: you didnt get one yet? :( Oct 25 00:18:08 nope Oct 25 00:18:10 f00f-: did you like just order it? Oct 25 00:18:12 Dougie187, well It seemed way more hyped then what it seem to be Oct 25 00:18:18 it shipped out today Oct 25 00:18:19 (or it will) Oct 25 00:18:26 yeah, got two Oct 25 00:18:33 !! Oct 25 00:18:34 After_Math: it seemed hyped to you? I feel quite the opposite. I think it was not very hyped at all... Oct 25 00:18:44 f00f-: thats pretty sweet. Oct 25 00:18:46 Dougie187, commercially no it wasnt Oct 25 00:18:47 Dougie187: he's not the masses. Oct 25 00:19:29 unix_infidel, no I am not but considering myself as a geek, I intend to be shocked if google thinks its going to come to a new market Oct 25 00:19:40 so any stats on app downloads yet? Oct 25 00:19:48 but I will say they havent opened up the 3rd party market yet Oct 25 00:19:50 i saw 50k somewhere Oct 25 00:19:54 there are rough stats in the market Oct 25 00:19:58 for each app Oct 25 00:20:02 f00f-: most people are downloading things, but staying away from muthu's apps. Oct 25 00:20:05 lol Oct 25 00:20:07 hahahahahahahaha Oct 25 00:20:12 lol muthu Oct 25 00:20:23 umdk1d3: you can see the stats on market? where? Oct 25 00:20:33 ralfz: its in the header bar Oct 25 00:20:37 umdk1d3: so what's your total guesstimate? Oct 25 00:20:50 ulmen: oh.. i though it was on the web Oct 25 00:20:54 the OEM apps are basic.... Oct 25 00:21:05 no app has broken 50,000 yet, from what i can see Oct 25 00:21:14 I expected more control Oct 25 00:21:22 weather channel is most popular right not, and they have 10-50k it says Oct 25 00:21:23 best apps? Oct 25 00:21:32 nice, that's a good household name Oct 25 00:21:38 f00f-: there is some magic app that i really wanna hack Oct 25 00:21:49 its an app that automagically gives your phone free wifi at tmobile hotspots Oct 25 00:22:09 umdk1d3: slurp the .apk and let the fun begin :) Oct 25 00:22:11 umdk1d3, what would you do with it? Oct 25 00:22:16 umdk1d3: isnt' there already a t-mo wifi finder Oct 25 00:22:19 well, first, you prolly cant reverse engineer Oct 25 00:22:20 * waldo_ is back (gone 01:06:00) Oct 25 00:22:27 so i would sniff wifi traffic Oct 25 00:22:47 i dont think its as simple as the att user agent string hack Oct 25 00:23:02 yeah set up your lappy as an AP and transparently proxy it to a nearby T-Mobile hotspot Oct 25 00:23:09 best done in a coffee shop? Oct 25 00:23:29 i guess they have tmobile here in town at kinko, so i was gonna head over there at some point Oct 25 00:23:47 well, its just wifi, so promiscious packet sniff Oct 25 00:24:27 * umdk1d3 wonders what the least popular app is Oct 25 00:24:28 Hey guys. Do XML files have the same type of function as a CSS style? Basically for defining properties of elements in the source? Oct 25 00:25:08 ITechJunkie: in a way, yes Oct 25 00:25:22 they can define all sorts of stuff Oct 25 00:25:23 Okay, time to drink champagne and play Mega Man 9 Oct 25 00:26:17 umdk1d3, I'm only new to programming and want to develop for Android. Can you give me a brief comparison of the two so I can understand a little of the differences? Oct 25 00:26:25 ouch lol ecorio is 3rd from last in popularity, and thats with tmobile promoting them in stores Oct 25 00:27:04 the first xml youll probably encounter in android is in /layouts/ folder Oct 25 00:27:23 its more like xhtml for your gui. you define the controls/widgets you want to put on your screen Oct 25 00:27:59 for most people, thats good enough. but you could also abstract some of the settings, like colors and font sizes,etc, but that is fairly advanced Oct 25 00:31:38 umdk1d3, thanks man. Makes sense. Oct 25 00:52:20 jasta: you around? wondering how you resolved that issue with the installer signature issue Oct 25 00:55:48 So does anyone know if Bash has been ported over to the G1 yet? Oct 25 00:58:16 if i want to make an activty that has some widgets (like an EditText) above a ListView.. does it have to implement ListActivty? Oct 25 00:59:17 Ramblurr: nope, not at all Oct 25 00:59:36 should i ? Oct 25 01:01:45 up to you. ListActivity makes something easiers, but not much. If you do inherit from ListActivity, your custom layout should have a ListView with id="@android:id/list" (the ListActivity will reference that ListView) Oct 25 01:02:33 hmm Oct 25 01:03:17 is there a hack out yet to see linux boot, initializing system services and such Oct 25 01:03:22 instead of a stupid robot Oct 25 01:04:23 the robot is cool Oct 25 01:04:34 its not stupid robot. its Android. >.< Oct 25 01:04:47 yeah but linux is more cool Oct 25 01:04:54 logos are for windows Oct 25 01:05:01 O.o Oct 25 01:05:54 also i'm still fiending for a terminal to get to a shell and a port of vim :-/, wish i had the time to do what it takes to code these things Oct 25 01:06:42 I'm almost certain they've ported vim for debian-arm. Oct 25 01:06:55 iphone yes Oct 25 01:07:17 agvim would be nice (android graphical vim) Oct 25 01:07:40 illuminum: iphone? Oct 25 01:07:53 oh i thought you said darwin Oct 25 01:08:24 Anyone had to reformat their SD card yet? Either Windows or the G1 totally hosed my SD card when I was syncing MP3s to it. Oct 25 01:08:34 I just got my 16GB microSDHC card in today Oct 25 01:08:43 copied files over on the desktop, popped it in, golden. Oct 25 01:08:56 probably windows Oct 25 01:09:03 probably decided it didn't like utf and made it iso Oct 25 01:09:15 i'm guessing, pulling that guess out of my ass but it's probably not far off Oct 25 01:09:36 I've been using it for a couple days. Oct 25 01:09:38 is there a good app for saving a day's trip data from the gps? Oct 25 01:09:46 Haven't had a problem until just today. Oct 25 01:09:54 I'm aware of ecorio, but it ate my battery as far as I can tell Oct 25 01:10:02 also, stupid question: how do I uninstall an app? Oct 25 01:10:30 i think thats somewhere in settings jadams Oct 25 01:10:34 applications i think Oct 25 01:10:45 didnt know that you could uninstall an app unless it was installed from marketplace. Oct 25 01:10:50 jadams: easiest is Market > My downloads > [app] -> Uninstall Oct 25 01:10:53 oh yeah Oct 25 01:10:55 I forgot Oct 25 01:11:00 my problem is that ecorio doesn't sho wup in the list Oct 25 01:11:10 jasonchen, thanks Oct 25 01:11:53 it shows up in the market list of apps, just not from settings Oct 25 01:12:14 jadams: it's probably in Settings also, just under the package name since they must not have provided a label for the in the manifst Oct 25 01:12:29 how about closing an app? Oct 25 01:12:41 it gets sluggish sometimes, and some apps don't offer the ability to close them Oct 25 01:12:57 jadams: just press back, this will finish the app Oct 25 01:13:38 romainguy, sometimes they're still available if I hold down the home button, in the list Oct 25 01:13:43 romainguy, err, most of the time Oct 25 01:13:44 how do i align an image to the bottom of a view? Oct 25 01:13:50 aye, as soon as a terminal client comes out (i'm assuming android has /bin/sh or something of the sort already on it) we can just ps aux and kill -9 Oct 25 01:13:51 i have fill_parent Oct 25 01:13:56 then what? Oct 25 01:14:00 jadams: that doesn't mean the app is running Oct 25 01:14:02 I installed an app, then installed a newer version and now the new one crashes due to leftovers of the previous. Anyone have a solution for this? I way to clear out the old one completely - even after it says its uninstalled? Oct 25 01:14:10 jadams: it's the list of apps recently launched Oct 25 01:14:15 adb uninstall com.app.name Oct 25 01:14:16 jadams: let the system handle this :) Oct 25 01:14:32 mpardo, I did that but it fails saying its not there, but some of it is apparently Oct 25 01:14:35 romainguy, alright, I only ask because sometimes the system gets unbearably slow Oct 25 01:14:40 illuminum: no, because you cannot be root Oct 25 01:14:43 romainguy, that is, it fails to handle it to my satisfaction Oct 25 01:14:48 haha what romain? Oct 25 01:14:59 did you clean your project? Oct 25 01:15:07 If anyone asks about video for the G1/Video Player give them this url http://forums.tmonews.com/index.php?topic=3261.0 Oct 25 01:15:07 illuminum: if you had a terminal application, you could not be root so you could not kill processes Oct 25 01:15:20 debug and see where it breaks Oct 25 01:15:24 romainguy, don't think anyone will figure out how to become root? With physical access? Oct 25 01:15:25 what does the system run as? Oct 25 01:15:31 user android or something? Oct 25 01:15:36 mpardo me? Oct 25 01:15:41 yes Oct 25 01:15:44 jadams: maybe, but that's not out of the box Oct 25 01:15:45 tparkin yes u Oct 25 01:15:48 I'm using apks, not my app Oct 25 01:15:51 does whatever user runs the system have su? Oct 25 01:17:04 illuminum: there's no su Oct 25 01:17:19 t-mob fixed my internet Oct 25 01:18:25 hmm, guess i'll just wait for the hackers to make enough mods and port enough tools to provide a proper linux subsystem Oct 25 01:20:39 is there a channel for the G1? or are g1-related questions ok in here? Oct 25 01:21:02 thoraxe, no one has killed me yet for asking Oct 25 01:21:03 wastrel, did they tell you what the issue was? Oct 25 01:21:16 wastrel (and congrats!, welcome to the party :) Oct 25 01:21:20 so i connected to my home wifi but then no webpages would come up... that seems.. odd :) Oct 25 01:21:43 How long does it take for 3G activation? I still don't have 3G. Oct 25 01:22:04 SamSerious_, be sure your area is covered by 3g, not areas are. Oct 25 01:22:10 Yes I am Oct 25 01:22:13 languish: no i haven't spoken to anyone since the ticket was put in to lvl 3 support. i just checked and it's fixed . i presume they'll call on monday for a followup so they can close the ticket Oct 25 01:22:47 SamSerious_, call t-mobile to make sure it's enabled on your account. Even if you think it is, they've had some accounts it needed to be enabled. Oct 25 01:23:08 SamSerious_, when you call 611, just say "g1" Oct 25 01:23:20 (to the AVR) Oct 25 01:23:24 OK, Calling right away. Thanks for the info :) Oct 25 01:23:29 no prob :) Oct 25 01:23:43 wastrel, cool. Oct 25 01:25:35 anyone know how to align a widget to the bottom of a liner layout? Oct 25 01:25:38 linear* Oct 25 01:29:51 are there any vpn clients yet? Oct 25 01:31:23 woo market application crashed :] Oct 25 01:31:36 haha Oct 25 01:33:39 with the anroid stack, how do i get it to build the emulator image? Oct 25 01:33:49 by default it builds a generic image. Oct 25 01:36:32 landslide you're using eclipse? Oct 25 01:38:04 nah, i'm talking about the stack Oct 25 01:38:07 not the SDK Oct 25 01:38:11 oh Oct 25 01:44:21 hi! Oct 25 01:44:56 Well no 3G yet in my area. Rep said its gonna take some 48 hrs to expand 3G coverage in my area.. I called twice. One said I already have 3g near my area & another said just opposite.. lol Oct 25 01:45:00 i'm trying to get .apk files to work on the emulator. i'm a n00b. Oct 25 01:45:15 is there a list of .apk that work with the latest release? Oct 25 01:45:48 SamSerious_, give it 3 weeks.. it's t-mobile... Oct 25 01:46:14 til then you always have wifi :) Oct 25 01:46:31 dunno.. Im new tmobile customer. thanks to G1.. :p Oct 25 01:46:40 lol you poor bastard Oct 25 01:46:53 languish: i totally couldn't go to any webpages but google when i had wifi on Oct 25 01:47:03 get on over to the howardforums.com t-mobile forums to see what you'll be dealing with, good and bad. Oct 25 01:47:22 )with regards to t-mobile itself) Oct 25 01:47:30 lol Oct 25 01:47:34 thoraxe, strange Oct 25 01:47:43 thoraxe, you were connected to your own wifi? Oct 25 01:48:08 thoraxe, or is the issue fixed now? Oct 25 01:48:13 picsay is a good program Oct 25 01:48:27 i was connected to my hoem wifi. i disconnected Oct 25 01:48:30 i'll try again later Oct 25 01:48:37 i can't wait till they come out with a vpn client Oct 25 01:48:41 Whats the battery stat. for you guys? Oct 25 01:48:43 i downloaded connectbot :) Oct 25 01:48:54 there's a ssh program Oct 25 01:48:54 SamSerious_, it varries wildly Oct 25 01:48:58 yeah Oct 25 01:49:04 wastrel: i need vpn to access my work email Oct 25 01:49:05 SamSerious_, don Oct 25 01:49:08 is there a list of .apk that work with the latest release? Oct 25 01:49:08 err Oct 25 01:49:13 I cant wait till a irc client which runs at background like gtalk.. Oct 25 01:49:23 i wanted to try some programs on the emulator... Oct 25 01:49:47 SamSerious_, don't leave your 3g/wifi/gps enabled all day long when not using it, and the battery WILL last all day long Oct 25 01:50:34 3g uses extra battery???? Oct 25 01:50:38 yes Oct 25 01:50:45 i turned on gps and the location got worse lol Oct 25 01:50:47 there's a setting to just use 2g Oct 25 01:50:51 but i was inside Oct 25 01:50:54 Well for me, first run was like 4 hrs with 3 hrs awake time (mostly online over edge) Oct 25 01:51:12 languish: yeah. everything is turned off Oct 25 01:51:40 thoraxe, you have to be outside, and give the GPS time (even up to a couple of hours sometimes) to locate satellites. since it's aGPS it should take less time, but you still need to be by a window.. clear view of the sky.. for the GPS to work properly Oct 25 01:51:59 SamSerious_, yes, when I'm using everything, I get about 4 hours. Oct 25 01:52:08 languish: that's what i figured Oct 25 01:52:16 languish: i'm in a major metro so i probably won't need the real gps too often Oct 25 01:52:19 is eclipse different on linux? i can't follow the instructions on creating getting started. start a new android project is not an option Oct 25 01:52:34 when I manage, and use moderately.. I get about 8 hours, and with meager use.. it'll last me a couple of days Oct 25 01:52:42 thoraxe, nod Oct 25 01:52:58 languish: No that was after unboxing with default charge (some 60-70%) Oct 25 01:53:00 but I doubt I'll ever do meager use Oct 25 01:53:08 SamSerious_, cool Oct 25 01:53:34 also.. with the G1's battery.. small recharges throughout the day are best.. don't drain and full up, drain and full up Oct 25 01:54:14 you can drain it once in awhile, and full up.. just so it has proper battery life calibration.. once a month or less often Oct 25 01:54:51 just carry the USB cable with ya.. since it charges the G1 Oct 25 01:55:08 and randomly scare people by plugging in to their laptops Oct 25 01:55:13 >:) Oct 25 01:55:49 I dont do much talking.. may be some 10 min in a day. weekend may be 30 min max.. lol. All i want is data.. :D Oct 25 01:56:47 yeap d-d-d-date is the word, the word that you heard, it's got cool.. it's got meaning Oct 25 01:56:49 Now its 30%, 11h:22m up; 2h:35m awake Oct 25 01:56:51 err Oct 25 01:56:56 *data :/ Oct 25 01:57:04 what's the difference between the android simulator and android emulator? Oct 25 01:57:23 landslide, a simulator is just a fake representation that's not functional Oct 25 01:57:38 for demonstration of the interface Oct 25 01:57:40 is there any way to procedurally check if a service is running? Oct 25 01:57:55 ahh i see Oct 25 01:59:01 no? :O Oct 25 01:59:56 mpardo be patient, wait for one of the clueful devs to be aware of your question :) Oct 25 02:00:13 it's dinner time for most of them Oct 25 02:00:18 lol i'm an impatient american Oct 25 02:00:25 lol Oct 25 02:00:25 me too buddy me too Oct 25 02:00:29 no but srsly i've asked a million times Oct 25 02:00:35 :( Oct 25 02:00:53 perhaps you need to ask during another time of day.. lol Oct 25 02:00:58 mpardo: what do you mean by "service"? Oct 25 02:01:04 like ALL day :| Oct 25 02:01:05 and yeah, it's sort of friday night in MTV Oct 25 02:01:18 i extended PhoneStateListener Oct 25 02:01:31 er wait Oct 25 02:01:40 ocrap, todays friday? Oct 25 02:01:46 yea... lol and then i put it in a service Oct 25 02:01:49 * languish heads out Oct 25 02:02:00 i want to check and see if it's still running Oct 25 02:02:50 ok just kidding. i'm a married guy. i don't need to hit the scene to get laid. life is good, it's cold out. i'm stayin home. Oct 25 02:03:27 cold!! where? Oct 25 02:03:35 i'm gettin married next saturday :| Oct 25 02:03:55 mpardo: dunno, sorry Oct 25 02:03:59 wow congratulation mpardo :D Oct 25 02:04:08 i just had a medium pizza some beer and a cigar... gotta rebel real quick lol Oct 25 02:04:23 mpardo, I'm very haqppily married but man.. my condolences.....err congrats :) Oct 25 02:04:29 haha Oct 25 02:04:34 im having some mexican rice, chips n coke..lol Oct 25 02:04:42 SamSerious_, nyc Oct 25 02:05:09 it's not freezing but it's uncomfortably chilly Oct 25 02:05:09 mi here... cooooold too Oct 25 02:05:57 i miss cold weather... Oct 25 02:06:27 SamSrious_ until you total your call cuz of black ice Oct 25 02:06:27 what is the best link to use for a speed test on the android? Oct 25 02:06:35 car* Oct 25 02:07:17 PoohbaLT http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed?jisok=1 Oct 25 02:07:18 huh mpardo ? Oct 25 02:07:25 er nvm Oct 25 02:07:38 I got it mpardo Oct 25 02:07:48 black ice sucks when you're on a bike Oct 25 02:07:57 i might not get some of your american jokes since im not american..lol Oct 25 02:07:59 Oklahoma had a bad case of black ice last year Oct 25 02:08:02 gsdx and drunk Oct 25 02:08:11 Poohba, click 100k then click choose a larger file Oct 25 02:08:14 :o) Oct 25 02:08:25 then click 1MB Oct 25 02:08:49 ok Oct 25 02:09:29 I get around 218k on it on i Oct 25 02:09:35 err Oct 25 02:09:39 yeah. Oct 25 02:09:53 912 Oct 25 02:10:59 how often does it sync the imap folders Oct 25 02:11:07 cuz i've got some folders i deleted in an email account that are still showing Oct 25 02:11:23 i really hate that you can't hit the delete key in the gmail app to directly delete an email hehe Oct 25 02:11:37 how do i separate gmail contacts from phone contacts? Oct 25 02:11:46 649k, 604k, 698k Oct 25 02:11:52 i don't think you can? Oct 25 02:12:34 is there a way to get a 5min screen timeout? Oct 25 02:12:43 PoohbaLT: you mean screen blank? Oct 25 02:12:57 Ah. thats bad. I have like 200 useless contacts in my gmail account. Oct 25 02:12:57 yeah Oct 25 02:13:12 i started fresh with a new gmail account :] Oct 25 02:13:15 ohhh... don't think so Oct 25 02:14:08 PoohbaLT, go in to settings, sound & display, scroll all the way down to screen timeout Oct 25 02:14:17 man i'm having some problems right aligning an image view in a horizontal linearlayout Oct 25 02:14:52 can i change who i'm sending mail as, like I can in gmail on the computer? Oct 25 02:14:54 ah, it jumps from 2 minutes to 10 minutes, no 5 minutes Oct 25 02:15:01 languish: right Oct 25 02:15:53 on windows at work i was able to do the hello program but at home on windows i cannot. i can't get eclipse to have the "New Android Project" why is that? Oct 25 02:16:08 and are ther any other good tutorials that you guys know of? Oct 25 02:16:16 i'm new to java too Oct 25 02:16:26 anyone know why the image view in this ui isn't right aligned at runtime? http://rafb.net/p/TDn0nI56.html Oct 25 02:16:31 new to java you say Oct 25 02:16:57 yes. doesn't it use java? Oct 25 02:17:17 hmm is there a good way of forcing z-order when you have stuff overlapping? Oct 25 02:17:37 PoohbaLT http://www.anddev.org/index.php?c=2 Oct 25 02:17:41 Ah got it. I can put all the gmail contacts in a group and then unselect that group from syncing.. Oct 25 02:17:52 oh i think i figured it out--its based on the xml order. i thought it wasnt working there for a second Oct 25 02:21:32 so, you can get a G1 at costco? Oct 25 02:21:48 orly? Oct 25 02:21:50 $350 Mid contract. Oct 25 02:21:59 http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/872941/ Oct 25 02:22:18 anyone know of any community tutorials? Oct 25 02:22:27 err $229 mid contract. Oct 25 02:22:29 (in store) Oct 25 02:22:55 unix_infidel community tutorials? besides what's here? http://www.anddev.org/index.php?c=2 Oct 25 02:23:14 hmm, anddev seems to have really grown since last week. Oct 25 02:23:22 lol Oct 25 02:25:06 maybe not the most polished site :-P Oct 25 02:26:40 1 Oct 25 02:26:56 is there a cannonical list of open source apps out there? Oct 25 02:27:47 umdk1d3: you gonna order another one? Oct 25 02:28:09 languish: what program is this using to create programs? It doesn't look like Eclipse Oct 25 02:28:21 wastrel, I don't think there's a single authoritative list or archive yet. Oct 25 02:28:48 anyone done a camerabutton+power on boot and got the serial to work yet? Oct 25 02:28:58 PoohbaLT, ask the devs in the channel :) Oct 25 02:30:55 ..and I wonder if there's serial running on a few pf the connector pins at that point? Oct 25 02:31:00 Dougie187: dont know :/ Oct 25 02:31:06 i would if i could get it w/o contract Oct 25 02:31:25 or get it under an at+t contract Oct 25 02:31:34 tmobile data doesnt work at all in this town Oct 25 02:31:53 or mabe a better question is, where are the g1 hackers at? :) Oct 25 02:32:52 yay! Oct 25 02:34:46 umdk1d3: it says you can get it while in a contract for 229. Oct 25 02:35:12 so maybe wait a bit and you can get a new g1 Oct 25 02:36:17 Now how do you get it out of serial boot mode? Power key doesn't seem to work. Take out the battery? Oct 25 02:36:50 I'd buy a G1 if I didn't have to commit to T-Mobile contract :D Oct 25 02:37:08 eggy: you can... Oct 25 02:37:26 Dougie187: oh, so you can pick up multiple G1s under the same contract =D Oct 25 02:37:36 umdk1d3: i would assume so? Oct 25 02:37:57 yeah, but its like $350 or something, right Oct 25 02:38:17 eggy: yeah. 400 Oct 25 02:38:28 thought I heard something about 90 days too? Oct 25 02:38:47 eggy: 90 days until they unlock it for you. but the contract is a month by month thing. Oct 25 02:38:58 so just do it one month, wait 60 days, get it unlocked and your good Oct 25 02:39:24 And I can get a cheep plan for a month? Heh Oct 25 02:39:33 yeah, even better. Oct 25 02:39:38 I use AT&T as my primary. Oct 25 02:39:50 I don't really want to switch, but I like the ideas behind the G1 a lot. Oct 25 02:40:00 Well, Andriod in genearl Oct 25 02:40:07 well, after the contract breaks, you can't use the phone. just use wifi or something Oct 25 02:40:11 and use it to develop Oct 25 02:40:26 Yeah, well that's exataly what I'd use it for Oct 25 02:40:35 I don't care about the provider stuff Oct 25 02:40:40 you can use it as a mid and developer handset Oct 25 02:40:50 but if you reset it or anything you will need to borrow an activated sim card. Oct 25 02:41:08 unless they'd unlock it Oct 25 02:41:23 true, this is just what i hear is the easiest way to do it now. Oct 25 02:41:29 what are the typical early termination fees? or will tmob let you get it with month-to-month contract? Oct 25 02:41:35 Which is why I'm probably going to wait and see if they'll actually unlock them after 90 days. From what I can tell, its merely hersay Oct 25 02:41:39 umdk1d3: the month to month g1 costs more. Oct 25 02:41:58 eggy: well, it is of course hearsay right now because it has only been out for 2 days. Oct 25 02:42:09 ahic Oct 25 02:42:19 Yeah, I know that :) Oct 25 02:42:32 umdk1d3: but etf for most other carriers as i know are 150 Oct 25 02:42:33 T-Mobile has a good track record for unlocks, however. Oct 25 02:42:53 allrite -- thats good to know Oct 25 02:43:37 Plus, I wouldn't think the concept behind Android and having an "open handset" would promote provider locking for very long. Oct 25 02:43:54 true, and i bet users will find a way to unlock them yourselfs. Oct 25 02:43:57 yourselves. Oct 25 02:44:11 I suspect that's true too. Oct 25 02:44:15 Locking and open source have nothing to do with each other. Oct 25 02:44:21 but thats that whole activated sim thing. Oct 25 02:44:43 if you pop an activated sim card in a g1, add a gmail acct, and swap back to an unactivated sim card you're basically unlocked. Oct 25 02:44:52 you just can't make calls, but you can use the phone for everything else. Oct 25 02:44:56 (on wifi) Oct 25 02:45:14 You mean, T-Mobile activated SIM? Oct 25 02:45:17 yeah Oct 25 02:45:45 hrm - there's a T-Moible store not too far from here Oct 25 02:45:50 wonder if they have any G1s Oct 25 02:45:51 heh Oct 25 02:45:53 heh Oct 25 02:45:59 you have to buy it with a plan from what i know. Oct 25 02:46:03 Dougie187: unlocked in the sense that you dont need a t-mobile sim, but you cant use it on any other carrier. Oct 25 02:46:06 If you get one, don't get the bronze one. Oct 25 02:46:14 hahaha Oct 25 02:46:19 unix_infidel: true, but can you unlock it in that sense ever? Oct 25 02:46:32 i was on the phone with my t-mobile guy Oct 25 02:46:36 Dougie187: meh, maybe. Oct 25 02:46:37 we only had a choice between brown and black Oct 25 02:46:43 Seriously, the keyboard backlighting is much poorer than the black. Oct 25 02:46:50 I'd like a different device to salivate over unlocking though. Oct 25 02:46:50 Brown ... bronze... same thing. Oct 25 02:46:51 unix_infidel: i thought the data frequencies of the phone were not supported by other us carriers Oct 25 02:47:17 Well, I'm in no rush to buy a G1 at this point in time :-) Oct 25 02:47:30 iirc one of the development G1's were able to get on AT&T Oct 25 02:47:54 Dougie187: it's a quad band phone. it'll work on any gsm carrier Oct 25 02:48:06 it's operator locked though Oct 25 02:48:10 but you can just get the sim card hack Oct 25 02:48:12 very easy Oct 25 02:48:26 mmattice: he's talking about the 3G freqs. Oct 25 02:48:32 f00f-: or if tmobile unlocks it after 90 days you don't have to worry about it. Oct 25 02:48:33 btw, is it just me or is the Maps application missing from the open source Android? Oct 25 02:48:42 yes, that'll work too Oct 25 02:48:46 and yeah unix_infidel thats right. Oct 25 02:48:46 probably that is your best, stress-free bet Oct 25 02:49:02 unlocking it is pointless since you lose 3G Oct 25 02:49:04 f00f-, is your handle derived from the Intel F00F related CPU bug? Oct 25 02:49:30 k4jcw: yeah, i get a lot of heat for the F0 0F bug Oct 25 02:49:36 k4jcw: what class are you? Oct 25 02:49:40 Extra Oct 25 02:50:14 nice, i'm tech. Oct 25 02:50:46 (ham?) Oct 25 02:50:55 ah, cool. What's your call? Oct 25 02:51:14 umdk1d3, yes, we're hams :) Oct 25 02:51:19 * yakischloba digs around for his license, not remembering Oct 25 02:51:35 i don't take advantage of my license at all Oct 25 02:51:38 ah, "Technician" Oct 25 02:51:52 wow. I got this in 2000 Oct 25 02:51:54 i have this yaesu handheld Oct 25 02:52:33 jeez i was like 13 or 14 Oct 25 02:52:57 All I remember is after I got it I stopped participating Oct 25 02:53:24 Bummer. Amateur radio is fun. Oct 25 02:53:41 Yeah I had a blast while I was learning it and doing projects with the club. I don't know why I lost interest Oct 25 02:53:43 So many things to do. HF, satellite, digital modes, emergency services work... Oct 25 02:54:34 Amaeur Radio has allways looked fun to me, its been one of those things I've never gotten around to persuing Oct 25 02:54:45 ah its way fun Oct 25 02:55:50 perhaps one day, I'll have enough inerest to study and take the test Oct 25 02:55:56 hey folks how is everyone? Oct 25 02:55:58 happy weekend! Oct 25 02:56:21 Indeed, I'm happy the weekend is finally here. Oct 25 02:56:39 i studied maybe a week for my license and got it Oct 25 02:56:42 bought radios Oct 25 02:56:45 used it for maybe 2 weeks Oct 25 02:56:49 then moved onto something new Oct 25 02:56:52 :/ Oct 25 02:57:41 a bunch of people happened to join the local club at the same time I did, so they held a weekly class for a month or two for us all Oct 25 02:57:46 anyone know exactly where i can find Icon Images in the SDK or elsewhere? Such as... Dialer Icon, Maps Icon, Email Icon, etc... as seen on the G1? Oct 25 02:57:55 cool, i never had a club to go to Oct 25 02:58:06 ah man, that was 90% of the fun Oct 25 02:58:21 yakischloba: makes sense, i only got 10% of the joy Oct 25 02:58:27 it pretty much sucked Oct 25 02:58:35 i talked to one ham on accident Oct 25 02:58:38 i was trying to use his repeater Oct 25 02:58:39 and he came on Oct 25 02:58:50 and said "your signal is too weak, try another repeater" Oct 25 02:59:03 heh. When you join up with a club there are always projects to do, we worked with the local fire and police departments on their systems etc Oct 25 02:59:49 trigatch4: \tools\lib\res\default\drawable **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 25 02:59:57 2008