**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 26 02:59:57 2008
Oct 26 03:00:04 * jasta scratches his head
Oct 26 03:00:10 <jasta> really, where does android.jar come from? :)
Oct 26 03:00:37 <duey> buildbot
Oct 26 03:00:42 <wastrel> trout mask replica <3
Oct 26 03:01:44 <pfft1> is there an app that comes with the G1 that just shows GPS information?
Oct 26 03:02:57 <pfft1> which g1 app just show GPS information?
Oct 26 03:03:08 <pfft1> shows
Oct 26 03:03:27 <umdk1d3> pfft1: you mean like google maps?  just tap my my location
Oct 26 03:03:35 <umdk1d3> it shows accuracy radius, and tap on it for exact lat/lon
Oct 26 03:03:38 <wastrel> menu > my location
Oct 26 03:04:53 <pfft1> Maps was not release open source? was it?
Oct 26 03:05:08 <pfft1> released
Oct 26 03:05:26 <tmccrary> mines always accurate to about a 3 mile radius
Oct 26 03:05:28 <tmccrary> which is a bummer
Oct 26 03:05:33 <tmccrary> not really impressive to show people
Oct 26 03:05:34 <DarkriftX> ouch
Oct 26 03:05:41 <DarkriftX> is that using cell towers?
Oct 26 03:05:43 <DarkriftX> or the gps
Oct 26 03:05:45 <tmccrary> not sure
Oct 26 03:05:49 <DarkriftX> that cannot be gps
Oct 26 03:05:50 <ttuttle> DarkriftX: That's gotta be cell towers.
Oct 26 03:05:50 <jasta> ttuttle: *poke*
Oct 26 03:05:50 <tmccrary> I'd assume cell towers though
Oct 26 03:05:53 <ttuttle> jasta: *poke*
Oct 26 03:05:58 <pfft1> the maps application was NOT release open source was it?
Oct 26 03:05:59 <DarkriftX> and even cell towers are like 3-5 blocks
Oct 26 03:06:03 <languish> tmccrary, enable the gps, and stand outside with the phone for awhile so it can aquire a list of satellites
Oct 26 03:06:05 <ttuttle> DarkriftX: Depends on the area.
Oct 26 03:06:08 <tweakt> I'm trying to use a custom layout with ListActivity, what exactly should my ListView's id be? I've got "@+id/list" but it's not liking that...
Oct 26 03:06:21 <ttuttle> jasta: what's up?
Oct 26 03:06:24 <umdk1d3> tweakt: android:id/list
Oct 26 03:06:25 <jasta> ttuttle: how the heck do you setup a build environment to work in the Android tree?
Oct 26 03:06:31 <tmccrary> lol
Oct 26 03:06:34 <tmccrary> I'm such a newb
Oct 26 03:06:34 <umdk1d3>  "@android:id/list"  rather
Oct 26 03:06:36 <ttuttle> jasta: So, do you have it checked out using repo?
Oct 26 03:06:39 <tmccrary> I've never enabled the gps before :(
Oct 26 03:06:41 <languish> tmccrary, the gps needs to have a clear view of the sky for awhile to get sat/gps functionality
Oct 26 03:06:45 <jasta> first off, apps are not building against standard android.jar (missing packages)
Oct 26 03:06:47 <languish> haha
Oct 26 03:06:49 <jasta> ttuttle: yes
Oct 26 03:06:50 <tmccrary> I guess that solves that problem, thanks guys :)
Oct 26 03:07:01 <ttuttle> jasta: Okay, then export ANDROID_JAVA_HOME=$JAVA_HOME
Oct 26 03:07:13 <pfft1> jasta: http://source.android.com/
Oct 26 03:07:15 <jasta> ttuttle: i can build it fine with make
Oct 26 03:07:17 <tweakt> umdk1d3, tnx
Oct 26 03:07:21 <ttuttle> jasta; Oh.
Oct 26 03:07:22 <jasta> ttuttle: thats not what i'm asking :)
Oct 26 03:07:38 <ttuttle> jasta: You want to build against it?
Oct 26 03:07:41 <jasta> ttuttle: i mean how the hell do i get a build environment to just build certain apps ;)
Oct 26 03:07:53 <ttuttle> jasta: Hold on, lemme try.
Oct 26 03:07:58 <tmccrary> closer, about one mile now
Oct 26 03:08:02 <jasta> the Email app, for instance, uses a package not in my 1.0r1 android.jar
Oct 26 03:08:07 <ttuttle> jasta: Hmm.
Oct 26 03:08:08 <tmccrary> but I haven't tried the previous suggestions yet either
Oct 26 03:08:19 <pfft1> jasta: if you follow the instructions on http://source.android.com/ you'll get just what you want
Oct 26 03:08:20 <ttuttle> jasta: Honestly I don't know.  I'm just building against the 1.0 SDK.
Oct 26 03:08:22 <jasta> and it also is using apache's LogFactory, which i'm unsure if i should provide third party or whate.
Oct 26 03:08:34 <ttuttle> jasta: It should be pulled in by repo if you need it.
Oct 26 03:08:51 <jasta> ttuttle: it is, but i'm trying to develop within eclipse.
Oct 26 03:08:55 <tweakt> umdk1d3, I get a parser error "String types not allowed (at 'id' with value 'android:id/list')
Oct 26 03:08:57 <pfft1> the maps application was NOT release open source was it?
Oct 26 03:09:06 <ttuttle> pfft1: Check for yourself!  You can get the source.
Oct 26 03:09:06 <umdk1d3> tweakt: yea sry that shoulwd be prefixed with "@"
Oct 26 03:09:20 <tweakt> umdk1d3, cool, got it
Oct 26 03:09:22 <DarkriftX> anyone know if there are images built that are more like a g1 and less like the old emulator images?
Oct 26 03:09:36 <DarkriftX> something that would be accurate when testing apps to see if they would work on a g2
Oct 26 03:09:37 <DarkriftX> g1*
Oct 26 03:09:39 <ttuttle> DarkriftX: No, but I imagine someone could make one out of a g1 ;-)
Oct 26 03:09:44 <jasta> ttuttle: so, do you see what i'm getting at? :)
Oct 26 03:09:53 <pfft1> ttuttle: i've been looking at the source for a few days, and I'm still finding things that are not obvious
Oct 26 03:09:53 <DarkriftX> hrmmm
Oct 26 03:09:54 <ttuttle> jasta: Yeah, and I don't know how to debug it. :-\
Oct 26 03:10:14 <pfft1> ttuttle: i cannot tell if the maps app is there or not ... i dont think it is, but you never know
Oct 26 03:10:15 <ttuttle> jasta: I'm only used to Google's build tree, where everything "just works".  I haven't used the public source tree much.
Oct 26 03:10:21 <jasta> i mean, do devs at google really make the world every time they tweak some tiny piece?
Oct 26 03:10:51 <ttuttle> jasta: No, not quite.
Oct 26 03:10:52 <tmccrary> no, that's what the gnomes are for
Oct 26 03:10:56 <pfft1> jasta: you dont have to build it all
Oct 26 03:11:00 <ttuttle> jasta: It rebuilds the Java components that were changed.
Oct 26 03:11:01 <pfft1> jasta: at the same time
Oct 26 03:11:03 <duey> jasta, interns!
Oct 26 03:11:12 <ttuttle> duey: Actually, fast computers.
Oct 26 03:11:14 <jasta> ttuttle: the top-level make?
Oct 26 03:11:23 <ttuttle> duey: I was not employed to hand-compile Java code ;-)
Oct 26 03:11:27 <ttuttle> jasta: No, it's recursive.
Oct 26 03:11:27 <duey> lol
Oct 26 03:11:28 <pfft1> jasta: try "make Email"
Oct 26 03:11:39 <duey> perfect job for interns
Oct 26 03:11:47 <jasta> ttuttle: i don't think you're understanding me
Oct 26 03:11:48 <ttuttle> jasta: I'm not sure what delineates the modules it rebuilds together.
Oct 26 03:12:13 <jasta> pfft1: do i expect that will work or are you just inventing things?
Oct 26 03:12:54 <jasta> it seems strange that "Email" would be a target at the top-level, but hmm, it seems to be
Oct 26 03:13:06 <ttuttle> jasta: I think it's basically a set of android packages.
Oct 26 03:13:10 <jasta> still, i'd like to be able to use Eclipse to develop against this :\
Oct 26 03:13:11 <pfft1> jasta: ok ... if you dont believe me, then just ignore me
Oct 26 03:13:17 <tweakt> umdk1d3, hmm. now my list items are not showing up (I have a custom adapter)
Oct 26 03:13:17 <Ramblurr> anyone familar with the services in android?
Oct 26 03:13:31 <tweakt> umdk1d3, they were with the default, built in listview
Oct 26 03:14:01 <umdk1d3> tweakt: are you using setListAdapter()?
Oct 26 03:14:20 * ttuttle -> sleep.
Oct 26 03:14:27 <jasta> pfft1: that just won't help me build with Eclipse.
Oct 26 03:14:31 <umdk1d3> ListActivity.setListAdapter() should pick out the @android:id/list correctly
Oct 26 03:14:46 <umdk1d3> also be sure that youve set the layout params right so that the ListView grows to be seen
Oct 26 03:14:50 <pfft1> jasta: you never told me you wanted to build with eclipse
Oct 26 03:14:52 <tweakt> umdk1d3, yes, and if I remove the setContentView() call, it works, but I want to add stuff around my list (column headers, other UI)
Oct 26 03:14:53 <umdk1d3> *grows or is big enough
Oct 26 03:15:06 <tweakt> ahh
Oct 26 03:15:19 <umdk1d3> tweakt: sure, then you can customize the .xml layout you have that listview in
Oct 26 03:15:29 <pfft1> jasta: anyway, if you will only build things with eclipse, you dont want my help
Oct 26 03:15:36 <umdk1d3> you might use android:weight="1" so that it sucks up any remaining space in the window
Oct 26 03:15:55 <jasta> pfft1: im just trying to work on the Email app specifically, but it has deps that i'm not sure how to provide for Eclipse
Oct 26 03:16:14 <umdk1d3> so  <LinearLayout (vertical)/>  <TextView/> <ListView android:gravity="1"/>  <Button/> </LinearLayout>
Oct 26 03:16:18 <tweakt> umdk1d3, I've got a vert. LinearLayout. inside of that a horiz LinearLayout, and my column headers (TextViews), then my list view. All are "fill_parent"
Oct 26 03:16:23 <jasta> for instance, i'd need the android.jar as the source would produce.  but i don't see that it gets produced.
Oct 26 03:16:52 <pfft1> jasta: you could do your changes in eclipse and then just run "make Email" outside of eclipse ... i promise it wont kill you to do that
Oct 26 03:16:54 <tweakt> what does "layout_weight" do?
Oct 26 03:17:08 <umdk1d3> tweakt: all of the layotu_heights should be wrap_content
Oct 26 03:17:15 <umdk1d3> and the listview weight="1'
Oct 26 03:17:24 <jasta> pfft1: i suppose, but i just dont get why the source wouldn't produce something that is distributed with the SDK?  it seems to produce every other file except this one
Oct 26 03:17:30 <umdk1d3> weight tells the layout manager to fill the rest of the space with this control
Oct 26 03:17:42 <pfft1> the source and the SDK are TOTALLY separate
Oct 26 03:17:47 <umdk1d3> tweakt: except the overall LinearLayout at the top of the tree should have its layout_height="fill_parent"
Oct 26 03:17:50 <tweakt> gravity: integer types not allowed?
Oct 26 03:17:59 <pfft1> jasta: the SDK has been out for months
Oct 26 03:18:01 <umdk1d3> oh grr /me looks
Oct 26 03:18:11 <pfft1> jasta: the source has been out for a few days
Oct 26 03:18:17 <umdk1d3> tweakt:   android:layout_weight="1"   sorry  ;)
Oct 26 03:18:30 <tweakt> ok, I had that, lemme test
Oct 26 03:18:43 <jasta> pfft1: ok?  so, at some point it will produce android.jar? :)
Oct 26 03:19:02 <pfft1> jasta: ok ... i just ran "make Email" and I got this message
Oct 26 03:19:09 <pfft1> jasta: "Install: out/target/product/generic/system/app/Email.apk"
Oct 26 03:19:13 <umdk1d3> tweakt:   http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/source/browse/trunk/connectbot/res/layout/act_hostlist.xml
Oct 26 03:19:22 <Ramblurr> mhua finally got my service to bind
Oct 26 03:19:28 <pfft1> jasta: so it ran perfectly using the latest code
Oct 26 03:19:30 <greenman> I have a question.  Thought I would ask here.
Oct 26 03:19:34 <ivantis> can someone tell me how to just write a program for android?
Oct 26 03:19:43 <ivantis> so that i can run it with the emulator
Oct 26 03:19:43 <pfft1> ivantis: no
Oct 26 03:19:44 <jasta> pfft1: right, but that is because Email is not building against the SDK's android.jar.  It would fail if you tried.
Oct 26 03:19:46 <greenman> So there are lots of g1 wallpapers already, I have a question on using them
Oct 26 03:19:51 <jasta> Email is using features not in 1.0r1
Oct 26 03:19:53 <tweakt> umdk1d3, ok, my list is there, filling the area I expect. just no items inside it
Oct 26 03:20:01 <greenman> They are 640X480, but when you try to use it, it crops them
Oct 26 03:20:04 <umdk1d3> what kind of adapter are you using?
Oct 26 03:20:11 <ivantis> meanie
Oct 26 03:20:12 <greenman> which takes a smaller section then magnifies it.
Oct 26 03:20:16 <pfft1> ivantis: you'll need to read and learn from the web pages first
Oct 26 03:20:23 <greenman> Wouldn't it be smarter to just take the image?
Oct 26 03:20:25 <Ramblurr> greenman:  that orange square is scalable.. drag it
Oct 26 03:20:34 <ivantis> but i cant use eclipse
Oct 26 03:20:36 <pfft1> ivantis: then someone may help you
Oct 26 03:20:39 <greenman> Ramblurr: ah, thanks, I'll try that
Oct 26 03:20:39 <ivantis> it does something stupid
Oct 26 03:20:44 <Ramblurr> greenman: and make it bigger so it includes the whole image
Oct 26 03:21:18 <Ramblurr> greenman: i had the same problem heh, i only discovered it was scalable when i got frustrated and started poking at the screen heh
Oct 26 03:21:28 <greenman> heh
Oct 26 03:21:44 <ivantis> can someone send me a program file?
Oct 26 03:21:48 <ivantis> files i mean
Oct 26 03:21:58 <greenman> saved me from having to do that.  Some images still seem a little pixelly, maybe the box isn't getting to full size
Oct 26 03:22:40 <ivantis> ?!?!
Oct 26 03:22:42 <ivantis> well?
Oct 26 03:25:15 <tweakt> umdk1d3, nevermind, it was an unrelated issue ;-)
Oct 26 03:33:41 <wastrel> ok what is with the "raw and uncut" wallpaper?
Oct 26 03:33:42 <gambler> jasta, such as?
Oct 26 03:34:30 <jasta> hmm?
Oct 26 03:34:37 <ivantis> how do i run a program with the emulator?
Oct 26 03:34:45 <ivantis> i just put it in a .java file
Oct 26 03:35:13 <romainguy> wastrel: don't tell me about it
Oct 26 03:35:30 <ivantis> ??
Oct 26 03:35:31 <tmccrary> you mean the last wallpaper on the phone?
Oct 26 03:35:33 <ivantis> hmm?
Oct 26 03:35:41 <romainguy> tmccrary: yes
Oct 26 03:35:41 <wastrel> tmccrary: yah
Oct 26 03:35:53 <tmccrary> lol, I was like wtf is this
Oct 26 03:36:06 <tmccrary> I thought some hiphopper was using my phone before they shipped it to me or something
Oct 26 03:36:17 <tmccrary> it doesn't seem to fit with the rest
Oct 26 03:36:37 <wastrel> it's 60% more batshit crazy than the others
Oct 26 03:36:58 <romainguy> wastrel: I hate this wallpaper :)
Oct 26 03:37:08 <wastrel> i'm still on the default
Oct 26 03:37:12 <wastrel> being uncreative :]
Oct 26 03:37:14 <jcanfield_> urban ninja.
Oct 26 03:37:14 <romainguy> thanks :)
Oct 26 03:37:24 <gambler> jasta, what features is email using that isnt in 1.0r1
Oct 26 03:37:32 <tmccrary> I'm using the crazy multicolored one
Oct 26 03:37:36 <romainguy> wastrel: http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/sets/72157607462733219/
Oct 26 03:37:39 <tmccrary> looks like an undersea scene on acid
Oct 26 03:38:06 <jasta> gambler: just trivial stuff, android.text.util.Regex, and some DomainNameMatcher or something
Oct 26 03:38:13 <jcanfield_> tmccrary, :the belagio ceiling...but you can't see your icons.
Oct 26 03:38:24 <romainguy> jasta: these are probably hidden APIs
Oct 26 03:38:28 <romainguy> in which case, it should be fixed
Oct 26 03:38:28 <tmccrary> I can :)
Oct 26 03:38:37 <jcanfield_> ha
Oct 26 03:38:44 <wastrel> romainguy: what's that bunny on your flickr icon?
Oct 26 03:38:53 <romainguy> Max from the game Sam and Max
Oct 26 03:39:28 <romainguy> a psychotic lagomorph of some sort
Oct 26 03:40:09 <wastrel> ok i switched to "Rice Fields"
Oct 26 03:40:50 <wastrel> this is why i want something to automatically rotate them, i like new ones but i rarely think to change them
Oct 26 03:41:02 <romainguy> well you can write an app that does it
Oct 26 03:41:13 <romainguy> since there's a public setWallpaper() method on Activity
Oct 26 03:41:19 <romainguy> and Home picks up the change automatically
Oct 26 03:41:20 <wastrel> well i just might do that except i won't
Oct 26 03:41:35 <wastrel> what species is that jellyfish
Oct 26 03:43:55 <wastrel> i like the time & date screen when you wake the display
Oct 26 03:44:58 <ivantis> how do i run a program with the emulator?
Oct 26 03:45:00 <tmccrary> Ever since I've gotten my android, Dr. Dre wakes me up in the morning!
Oct 26 03:45:10 <wastrel> saucy
Oct 26 03:45:12 <ivantis> how do i run a program with the emulator?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Oct 26 03:45:18 <wastrel> ivantis: using eclipse?
Oct 26 03:45:22 <ivantis> no
Oct 26 03:45:32 <tmccrary> You create an activity and run it
Oct 26 03:45:42 <ivantis> i just used activitycreator
Oct 26 03:45:47 <tmccrary> There is documentation on this
Oct 26 03:45:49 <tmccrary> one sec
Oct 26 03:45:49 <ivantis> in the SDK for linux
Oct 26 03:46:02 <tmccrary> http://code.google.com/android/intro/hello-android.html
Oct 26 03:46:04 <tmccrary> There you go
Oct 26 03:46:07 <ivantis> yes
Oct 26 03:46:13 <ivantis> exactly what i was reading
Oct 26 03:46:17 <ivantis> i used that example
Oct 26 03:46:22 <tmccrary> Well, read it again
Oct 26 03:46:23 <ivantis> but, i can not use eclipse
Oct 26 03:46:29 <ivantis> it did something gay to my computer
Oct 26 03:46:42 <tmccrary> I doubt that, Eclipse is one hell of a tool
Oct 26 03:47:01 <tmccrary> I assume you must be a windows user, yes?
Oct 26 03:47:04 <ivantis> no
Oct 26 03:47:05 <ivantis> ubuntu
Oct 26 03:47:38 <romainguy> tmccrary: I assume you must be a windows user, yes? << windows users are not necessarily the least technical :)
Oct 26 03:47:48 <tmccrary> I wouldn't go that far
Oct 26 03:48:01 <languish> He's more of a.. windowsCE guy
Oct 26 03:48:04 <languish> lol
Oct 26 03:48:05 <ivantis> windows users are usually noobs
Oct 26 03:48:06 <tmccrary> I would say, "There is a remote chance that the window user has some level of technical knowledge"
Oct 26 03:48:22 <ivantis> a level called zero
Oct 26 03:49:46 <jcanfield_> imeem is a crappy pandora knock-off.
Oct 26 03:52:14 <wastrel> windows
Oct 26 03:52:42 <wastrel> speaking of which, is there an organizer/todo list/productivity type app out yet?
Oct 26 03:52:52 <wastrel> besides quicklist
Oct 26 03:53:00 <DarkriftX> languish, when you got a minute read my new topic under general
Oct 26 03:53:16 <jcanfield_> DarkriftX, Quicklist.
Oct 26 03:53:27 <jcanfield_> oops wastrel
Oct 26 03:53:28 <DarkriftX> ?
Oct 26 03:53:32 <DarkriftX> oh lol
Oct 26 03:53:46 <tmccrary> man I love that phone
Oct 26 03:53:51 <tmccrary> its more than a phone
Oct 26 03:54:27 <ivantis> how do i run a program with the emulator?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Oct 26 03:54:32 <jcanfield_> I hope someone is working on a terminal client.
Oct 26 03:54:48 <ivantis> man i need that phone
Oct 26 03:54:51 <tmccrary> there already is one
Oct 26 03:54:54 <tmccrary> I have it installed
Oct 26 03:55:02 <jcanfield_> tmccrary, really?
Oct 26 03:55:03 <tmccrary> well, its an ssh client, so I guess its not general purpose :(
Oct 26 03:55:12 <ivantis> i run an SSH server
Oct 26 03:55:13 <jcanfield_> ...that's all i need.
Oct 26 03:55:15 <tmccrary> but it works awesome
Oct 26 03:55:21 <tmccrary> yeah, one sec, I forget the name
Oct 26 03:55:22 <ivantis> great
Oct 26 03:55:24 <wastrel> connectbot
Oct 26 03:55:26 <ivantis> i use SSH a lot
Oct 26 03:55:29 <tmccrary> thats it
Oct 26 03:55:40 <ivantis> ill download that when i get my G1
Oct 26 03:55:47 <tmccrary> the only thing I'm missing is openvpn
Oct 26 03:55:47 <jcanfield_> I can work from anywhere if I have ssh. :)
Oct 26 03:55:57 <tmccrary> so I can connect to the various places
Oct 26 03:56:00 <ivantis> they blocked port 22 at my school, so i cant work from there
Oct 26 03:56:11 <ivantis> it used to work, now its blocked
Oct 26 03:56:14 <ivantis> those jerks
Oct 26 03:56:52 <jcanfield_> ivantis,  just run a ss server on port 80 somewhere and tunnel through it.
Oct 26 03:57:09 <tmccrary> yeah or stunnel
Oct 26 03:57:10 <ivantis> but thats what i use for my web server
Oct 26 03:57:23 <jcanfield_> 443 then?
Oct 26 03:57:23 <ivantis> space-lab.us is my domain
Oct 26 03:57:27 <ivantis> 443?
Oct 26 03:57:30 <ivantis> what runs there?
Oct 26 03:57:31 <tmccrary> use a subinterface
Oct 26 03:57:47 <tmccrary> if you have enough address space
Oct 26 03:58:00 <ivantis> i think my school only allows 80, 8080, 88, 8888, some mail ports, etc
Oct 26 03:58:08 <tmccrary> probably ssl too
Oct 26 03:58:10 <ivantis> they get all uptight about security
Oct 26 03:58:12 <tmccrary> which is 443
Oct 26 03:58:17 <ivantis> righto
Oct 26 03:58:37 <umdk1d3> well actually tmccrary connectbot just got port forwarding earlier tonight  ;)
Oct 26 03:58:38 <ivantis> i dont have an ssl server, so ill do it on 443
Oct 26 03:59:11 <tmccrary> I used to stunnel to proxy through a corporate network overseas before
Oct 26 03:59:27 <tmccrary> worked well, the other companies IT dept. were amazed, they said it wouldn't work
Oct 26 03:59:32 <tmccrary> the network was too locked down
Oct 26 03:59:33 <tmccrary> :)
Oct 26 03:59:40 <languish> DarkriftX, read and replied to
Oct 26 03:59:52 <DarkriftX> k
Oct 26 04:00:07 <tmccrary> umdk1d3: that's cool! :)
Oct 26 04:00:19 <OpenVirus> is there a way to email friends apps that you have downloaded?
Oct 26 04:00:50 * DarkriftX just noticed he didnt have connectbot on his site
Oct 26 04:00:56 <DarkriftX> i used to have it
Oct 26 04:03:38 <umdk1d3> DarkriftX: PLEASE dont add it
Oct 26 04:03:46 <DarkriftX> oh
Oct 26 04:03:49 <DarkriftX> ok....
Oct 26 04:03:49 <umdk1d3> were doing heavy work this weekend
Oct 26 04:03:55 <PoohbaLT> is there a way to get stereo bluetooth headphones to work?
Oct 26 04:04:01 <umdk1d3> and to be honest, sites like yours are causing more of a headache for users  :/
Oct 26 04:04:11 <umdk1d3> they install an app without realizing its horridly old
Oct 26 04:04:13 <languish> Poohba, in mono yes, not stereo until they update the bluetooth profiles
Oct 26 04:04:20 <umdk1d3> and then complain about it not working
Oct 26 04:04:36 <umdk1d3> for some of these projects, its almost best to just have one single source for everything
Oct 26 04:04:40 <DarkriftX> no, sites like the others are causing problems like that. I have notices all over my site that most of the stuff is old and untested
Oct 26 04:04:43 <PoohbaLT> languish: how do i get, music and video to play thru my headphones?
Oct 26 04:04:46 <umdk1d3> if there is a way you could link, but not post an APK, that would be awesome
Oct 26 04:04:53 <languish> umdk1d3, google code annoyed me that way. it's not really updated or indicated some apps are dead in the water
Oct 26 04:04:58 <umdk1d3> *dont even link to an APK
Oct 26 04:05:13 <languish> PoohbaLT, use wired headphones for now.
Oct 26 04:05:32 <wastrel> heh i haven't tried music yet
Oct 26 04:05:52 <PoohbaLT> oh.  i thought u were saying i could use the stereo heaphones but it would be in mono.  ok.  i will use the wired... once i unpack it.  :)
Oct 26 04:06:11 <PoohbaLT> the video from youtube is not that good.
Oct 26 04:06:18 <PoohbaLT> quite bad actually
Oct 26 04:06:25 <languish> musics just fine, though the max volume levels for the included earbuds is too low for me to use on the subway
Oct 26 04:06:32 <umdk1d3> DarkriftX: didnt meant to chew you out for what others are causing
Oct 26 04:06:32 <languish> PoohbaLT, it'll improve
Oct 26 04:06:42 <thoraxe> has anyone figured out a way to make imap folders re-sync?
Oct 26 04:06:42 <languish> umdk1d3, chew him out, he needs it
Oct 26 04:06:44 <languish> :)
Oct 26 04:06:48 <umdk1d3> DarkriftX: feel free to link to the google code page, but dont include links to APKs
Oct 26 04:06:49 <gdsx> PoohbaLT: the quality differs depending on whether you're on WIFI or cell data
Oct 26 04:06:52 <PoohbaLT> i'm sure
Oct 26 04:07:09 <PoohbaLT> oh.  so if i'm on wifi it would be better than when in 3G
Oct 26 04:07:15 <gdsx> PoohbaLT: (for Youtube, that is)
Oct 26 04:07:45 <PoohbaLT> does this need to be rebooted daily?
Oct 26 04:07:56 <umdk1d3> DarkriftX: to give you an idea, weve had about 8 new apks in the last day.  its hard enough keeping google code updated, let alone a dozen other sites
Oct 26 04:08:04 <jcanfield_> tmccrary, where did you get the ssh client?
Oct 26 04:08:08 <DarkriftX> i understand
Oct 26 04:08:09 <PoohbaLT> my timeout is set to 2min and it all of a sudden stopped timing out.  also the sounds for email and txt msg stopped
Oct 26 04:08:33 <languish> PoohbaLT, my wife's has not needed to be rebooted daily. Mine.. has.  But mine may have a distinct hardware issue.. manufacturing..
Oct 26 04:08:54 <PoohbaLT> languish: is ur manufactured by someone else?
Oct 26 04:08:57 <languish> no
Oct 26 04:09:08 <languish> just when devices are mass produced, there will be a few lemons
Oct 26 04:09:20 <languish> most G1's seem to work well
Oct 26 04:09:45 <jcanfield_> wtf...my contacts doubled!  NOoo!!
Oct 26 04:09:47 <languish> PoohbaLT, also, have you installed any apps that were NOT from the Market ?
Oct 26 04:09:54 <DarkriftX> I have no problem with someone not wanting me to link to/host their app, its the classification that ticked me off. i started my site because those other ones were a joke and I spend quite a bit of time going through user comments and removing links to non working apps
Oct 26 04:10:08 <languish> jcanfield_, out.. BUT.. there's an app put there that fixes duplicated contacts
Oct 26 04:10:18 <gdsx> PoohbaLT: sorry, "yes" to your question about WIFI vs. 3G
Oct 26 04:10:22 <PoohbaLT> when i first got my Dash i had to reboot it often, then it just started working right.  i haven't had any "freezes" yet but i for some reason haven't used it as much
Oct 26 04:10:23 <jcanfield_> languish, please point me to it.
Oct 26 04:10:28 <languish> jcanfield_ I either saw it on slideme or andappstore
Oct 26 04:10:31 <PoohbaLT> i really like the ssh though.  i need to do a lot of that
Oct 26 04:10:34 <languish> i forget which
Oct 26 04:10:47 <languish> jcanfield_ I didn't test it.. :/
Oct 26 04:10:52 <languish> I didn't have the need
Oct 26 04:11:03 <gdsx> PoohbaLT: you shouldn't have to reboot your phone, no
Oct 26 04:11:06 <umdk1d3>  DarkriftX yea sorry about that, i did classify you along with those other sites  :(
Oct 26 04:11:14 <jcanfield_> landslide, this sucks.  Wonder if they are doubled in google apps now too? ..checking.
Oct 26 04:11:16 <DarkriftX> i also understand that there are lots that offer downlaods and telling them apart might be difficult, so I guess its not even that big of a deal
Oct 26 04:11:31 <thoraxe> PoohbaLT: connectbot ??
Oct 26 04:11:38 <languish> umdk1d3, he was like those other sites, until he got yelled at in here by plusminus... the feedback is good, he can use it :)
Oct 26 04:11:38 <ivantis> yeah, eclipse did screw up my computer
Oct 26 04:11:51 <PoohbaLT> wanting to get into developing.  i loaded eclipse and all on linux and windows.  the helloAndroid program worked perfect on windows but not on linux.  is there known issues or is there something else that is needed to install with linux?
Oct 26 04:12:11 <DarkriftX> languish, i was like the other sites because i had no users to give feedback yet
Oct 26 04:12:11 <gambler> what other good open source apps are there besides connectbot?
Oct 26 04:12:18 <jcanfield_> crap - google apps is doubled as well.
Oct 26 04:12:25 <DarkriftX> once i started getting feedback, the failed apps started going byebye
Oct 26 04:12:28 <gdsx> PoohbaLT: what exactly didn't work?
Oct 26 04:12:38 <umdk1d3> gambler: check out five--it streams your entire home music collection to your phone anywhere http://code.google.com/p/five/
Oct 26 04:12:45 <PoohbaLT> i'm getting errors in the console
Oct 26 04:12:47 <gambler> I know about that one
Oct 26 04:12:54 <gdsx> PoohbaLT: those errors being...
Oct 26 04:12:54 <gambler> how could i not :/
Oct 26 04:13:01 <umdk1d3> gambler: lol
Oct 26 04:13:06 <languish> DarkriftX, I know man.. but.. the site should have been staged before going live, with a select group of testers. It's ok, you're getting there :)
Oct 26 04:13:28 <umdk1d3> languish: i kindof understand why they are all pushing right now tho
Oct 26 04:13:35 <PoohbaLT> i'm getting in there now
Oct 26 04:13:59 <languish> umdk1d3, oh, I appreciate that they are.. I realize some apps will be old versions, I like seeing them anyway
Oct 26 04:14:14 <languish> I just know the genpop doesn't get it
Oct 26 04:15:03 <umdk1d3> languish: im pumped for market on monday, sounds like there are quite a few apps peeking from under the carpet that we will see for the first time
Oct 26 04:15:17 <languish> umdk1d3 YES!
Oct 26 04:15:19 <languish> :)
Oct 26 04:15:21 <thoraxe> man i'm glad the phone is open source.  hopefully a lot of these bugs will get fixed
Oct 26 04:15:30 <wastrel> there's bugs?
Oct 26 04:15:46 <languish> in the floorboards :/
Oct 26 04:15:58 <languish> He's waiting for a carrot..
Oct 26 04:15:58 <thoraxe> wastrel: i consider failure to properly sync imap folders a bug :)
Oct 26 04:16:25 <DarkriftX> thoraxe, i cant even get my desktop to properly sync imap lol
Oct 26 04:16:35 <thoraxe> DarkriftX: hahaha
Oct 26 04:16:50 <DarkriftX> with thunderbird or kmail :S
Oct 26 04:16:50 <thoraxe> DarkriftX: outlook is pretty bad at it too.  i wonder if someone will port thunderbird to android ahaha
Oct 26 04:16:58 <thoraxe> oh, thunderbird works good for me with imap at work
Oct 26 04:17:03 * DarkriftX doesnt touch outlook
Oct 26 04:17:06 <thoraxe> outlook at home disconnects all the time
Oct 26 04:17:10 <DarkriftX> i have to tech it all day at work as it is
Oct 26 04:17:15 <thoraxe> but outlook is still one of the best PIMs
Oct 26 04:17:22 <thoraxe> so i haven't bothered to switch yet
Oct 26 04:17:34 <thoraxe> the AIM client on android is jacked too... it's not displaying all of my buddies
Oct 26 04:17:34 <wastrel> i haven't tried imap
Oct 26 04:17:57 <gdsx> thoraxe: is it just taking a while, or is it not showing them at all?
Oct 26 04:17:59 <DarkriftX> i heard that thoraxe some members on my forum were asking me to find a newer one, but no luck cept a paid one
Oct 26 04:18:04 <wastrel> outlook is horrible with imap
Oct 26 04:18:06 <DarkriftX> $20, but from what i hear it might be worth it
Oct 26 04:18:07 <thoraxe> gdsx: it is showing folders that i've deleted
Oct 26 04:18:19 <thoraxe> DarkriftX: newer what?
Oct 26 04:18:24 <michaelnovakjr__> DarkriftX: a $20 AIM Client?
Oct 26 04:18:25 <wastrel> i found a bug in the gmail app :]
Oct 26 04:18:28 <DarkriftX> aim app
Oct 26 04:18:30 <DarkriftX> yeah :S
Oct 26 04:18:31 <gdsx> thoraxe: err... AIM?
Oct 26 04:18:41 <michaelnovakjr__> dude, i write a better free open source one
Oct 26 04:18:41 <DarkriftX> seemed a bit much for me, but he/she said they were going to use it
Oct 26 04:18:45 <michaelnovakjr__> $20 is a rip off
Oct 26 04:18:57 <thoraxe> gdsx: oh sorry, AIM frequently disconnects, doesn't tell me it disconnected, doesn't bother to re-connect...and now it appears to be taking forever to display all buddies
Oct 26 04:19:02 <DarkriftX> i think if authors charged less for their apps they would sell more and eventually make more
Oct 26 04:19:17 <michaelnovakjr__> DarkriftX: i'll write the open source one :)
Oct 26 04:19:18 <DarkriftX> i saw a demo of an android app that the author was selling for like $2
Oct 26 04:19:24 <michaelnovakjr__> no charge
Oct 26 04:19:34 <gdsx> thoraxe: b.android.com :o)
Oct 26 04:19:42 <trigatch4> michaelnovakjr - got time to chat?
Oct 26 04:19:42 <DarkriftX> i think lots more ppl would pay $2 then $20, and im sure it would be more then 10x the amount
Oct 26 04:19:47 <languish> if devs start charging $20+ for apps, when the G1 itself doesn't have cartain basic functionalities people expect yet, the mass market is going to go cold on it fast
Oct 26 04:20:00 <languish> *certain
Oct 26 04:20:02 <thoraxe> gdsx: i guess i should file a bug?
Oct 26 04:20:03 <gdsx> thoraxe: I think it's known that it can be _really slow_ at times, but it shouldn't disconnect and stuff
Oct 26 04:20:06 <gdsx> thoraxe: yeah
Oct 26 04:20:15 <michaelnovakjr__> someone start a list :) get some open source developers to help out
Oct 26 04:20:22 <DarkriftX> languish, exactly, which is why i will push demo's on my site if the author is selling them cheap
Oct 26 04:20:25 <michaelnovakjr__> i've got no problem writing software for free
Oct 26 04:20:49 <thoraxe> gdsx: yeah... it definitely disconnects frequently.  i'll wait a bit before filing a bug
Oct 26 04:20:57 <thoraxe> imap is more important at this point
Oct 26 04:20:58 <languish> michaelnovakjr, bwt did waldo contact you earlier?
Oct 26 04:21:08 <michaelnovakjr__> nope, what about?
Oct 26 04:21:20 <languish> michaelnovakjr, that file viewer you worked on
Oct 26 04:21:20 <DarkriftX> would suck to pay $20 for an aim client and find out it barely works and the author doesnt ofer refunds lol
Oct 26 04:21:25 <jcanfield_> okay, going back in the browser is easy. (back button)..how the heck do you go forward?
Oct 26 04:21:35 <thoraxe> is the android AIM sms based or data based?
Oct 26 04:21:36 <languish> michaelnovakjr err.. file browser
Oct 26 04:21:45 <michaelnovakjr__> ah yes
Oct 26 04:21:49 <romainguy> thoraxe: both
Oct 26 04:21:53 <DarkriftX> ooooh, you wrote a file browser?
Oct 26 04:21:56 <Ramblurr> toast is sweet
Oct 26 04:21:57 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Oct 26 04:22:02 <romainguy> thoraxe: it uses data but T-Mobile makes you pay for SMS
Oct 26 04:22:02 <DarkriftX> i have topics all over the internet looking for one that works
Oct 26 04:22:05 <michaelnovakjr__> but not sure it will work on the device
Oct 26 04:22:15 * DarkriftX offers languish as a tester
Oct 26 04:22:16 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 26 04:22:19 <michaelnovakjr__> according to romainguy device file system is locked down
Oct 26 04:22:24 <languish> heh
Oct 26 04:22:36 * DarkriftX pushes languish forward
Oct 26 04:22:52 <languish> michaelnovakjr, yeah I'm fine with testing on the hardware if you need it
Oct 26 04:23:10 <thoraxe> i will have to futz with the IMAP folders to see if I can reproduce it every time
Oct 26 04:23:14 <michaelnovakjr__> sure, i'll upgrade it from m5 and send the link out
Oct 26 04:23:16 <thoraxe> if I can i'll file a bug
Oct 26 04:23:20 <thoraxe> thanks for the link
Oct 26 04:23:21 * DarkriftX goes to smoke
Oct 26 04:23:26 <languish> I've factory reset mine so many times already it thinks it believes in reincarnation now
Oct 26 04:23:33 <jcanfield_> ahhh forward is MENU+k
Oct 26 04:23:42 <michaelnovakjr__> be back in a few
Oct 26 04:23:56 <thoraxe> i'm VERY happy with the phone so far though
Oct 26 04:24:06 <thoraxe> i was out and about today and maps + my location + gps + search was teh awezoms
Oct 26 04:24:32 <thoraxe> i need to get a bluetooth headeset
Oct 26 04:24:49 <gdsx> jcanfield_: cool; how'd you figure that out?
Oct 26 04:25:05 <Ramblurr> hm a cool bartending/drinkmixer app would be cool
Oct 26 04:25:24 <thoraxe> hahaha
Oct 26 04:25:25 <Ramblurr> input your ingredients and get back some drinks
Oct 26 04:25:28 <jcanfield_> gdsx, more option under the menu, it's lowlighted there.
Oct 26 04:25:30 <umdk1d3> Ramblurr: there was one at some point
Oct 26 04:25:34 <thoraxe> i would not want to mix alcohol and my phone
Oct 26 04:25:34 <umdk1d3> i think it disappeared from market tho
Oct 26 04:25:43 <gdsx> jcanfield_: aah, yeah.  cool
Oct 26 04:25:44 <umdk1d3> you could tell it "this is what i have" and it would suggest things
Oct 26 04:25:50 <romainguy> note: to find out the menu shortcuts, open the menu, then while the menu is open press and maintain pressed the Menu key
Oct 26 04:25:55 <romainguy> the shortcuts will blink
Oct 26 04:26:16 <jcanfield_> gdsx, i'd prefer a back button though.
Oct 26 04:26:30 <gdsx> jcanfield_: I'm confused
Oct 26 04:26:37 <DarkriftX> i cant wait for a good speach recognition for android that works with phone/maps/search
Oct 26 04:26:39 <gdsx> jcanfield_: you mean a forward button?
Oct 26 04:26:39 <umdk1d3> romainguy: wow thats pretty obscure, but good to know its there
Oct 26 04:26:40 <muthu> romainguy: why the shortcuts are not visible on menu right away?
Oct 26 04:26:51 <jcanfield_> gdsx, yes, sorry.
Oct 26 04:26:52 <Ramblurr> umdk1d3: why  didid itsapaper?
Oct 26 04:26:53 <DarkriftX> "android call home" "Dialing home"
Oct 26 04:26:58 <romainguy> muthu: no room
Oct 26 04:27:01 <romainguy> you can also read the manual
Oct 26 04:27:11 <Ramblurr> wow ui lagged there...  umdk1d3 why did it disappear? *
Oct 26 04:27:17 <Ramblurr> romainguy: cool tip, thanks
Oct 26 04:27:19 <swetland> the manual! nobody reads that ^^
Oct 26 04:27:27 <DarkriftX> "android locate walmart" "Plotting course to nearest Walmart now..."
Oct 26 04:27:30 <romainguy> shows you should :))
Oct 26 04:27:31 <umdk1d3> where is this manual?!?
Oct 26 04:27:33 <umdk1d3> :P
Oct 26 04:28:04 <umdk1d3> oh it would be /awesome/ if they did the manual in latex and opensourced it =D
Oct 26 04:28:06 <romainguy> swetland: so I'm playing Mr. Last Minute tomorrow again? :)
Oct 26 04:28:23 <swetland> I'd say "it's not my fault"
Oct 26 04:28:24 <swetland> but it is
Oct 26 04:28:32 <romainguy> lol
Oct 26 04:28:46 <swetland> however, chris told me today, 1 hour before his talk that he wanted me to come talk about the kernel
Oct 26 04:28:50 <swetland> so, it could have been worse ^^
Oct 26 04:29:26 <swetland> http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm30234.pdf <- g1 manual
Oct 26 04:29:38 * umdk1d3 gobbles up
Oct 26 04:29:42 <swetland> some people have a knowledgebase... tmo apparently has a knowbase
Oct 26 04:29:50 <umdk1d3> see, i never got one of these manuals
Oct 26 04:30:05 <DarkriftX> swetland, you imposter, how dare you show your face here again!
Oct 26 04:30:14 <romainguy> swetland: at least you guys are not like the GDD people, asking for slides 4 days before the event but telling you about the event 2 days before the event :)
Oct 26 04:30:15 <swetland> dark: ohnoes!
Oct 26 04:30:21 <gdsx> swetland: I guess since they have knowbase, that means they can't rebase
Oct 26 04:30:42 <languish> swetland, that g1 manual was hysterical
Oct 26 04:30:43 <swetland> gdsx, that was awful.
Oct 26 04:30:43 <thoraxe> i can't wait for a gps app that speaks
Oct 26 04:30:48 <languish> between the humor and the typos..
Oct 26 04:30:50 <thoraxe> alright guys, gnite
Oct 26 04:30:51 <Ramblurr> anyone gotten audio output to work in the emulator on linux?
Oct 26 04:30:51 <languish> i lmfao
Oct 26 04:31:04 <thoraxe> ipsec vpn client too :P
Oct 26 04:31:55 <jcanfield_> ...and map directions that can begin with "current location" instead of having to type in the start address.
Oct 26 04:32:27 <jcanfield_> GPS is very cool by the way.
Oct 26 04:32:48 <languish> jcanfield_, yes.. until they find you. :|
Oct 26 04:33:08 <DarkriftX> when your on the run, turn your damned phone off lol
Oct 26 04:33:09 <jcanfield_> languish,  it's only on when i want it...right?
Oct 26 04:33:39 <languish> jcanfield_, technically yes.
Oct 26 04:33:41 <thoraxe> jcanfield_: you can do map directions beginnign with current location
Oct 26 04:33:50 <jcanfield_> thor...how?
Oct 26 04:33:57 <jcanfield_> I was trying this afternoon.
Oct 26 04:34:02 <thoraxe> jcanfield_: go to map, click "my location" or whatever... then search for something
Oct 26 04:34:09 <thoraxe> then click that on the map
Oct 26 04:34:15 <thoraxe> click "get directions" and it should start with "my location"
Oct 26 04:34:24 <wastrel> languish: you said something yesterday i think about google docs
Oct 26 04:34:26 <jcanfield_> hmmm..gotta check again.
Oct 26 04:34:33 <languish> wastrel, hrm?
Oct 26 04:35:12 <pfft1> trying to run the Email app from eclipse ... i get the error "Could not find AndroidMail.apk!"
Oct 26 04:35:34 <wastrel> guess it wasn't you
Oct 26 04:35:48 <pfft1> it looks like the AndroidMail.apk is not getting generated by the build ... but there are no build errors ... any ideas why?
Oct 26 04:36:19 <thoraxe> jcanfield_: yeah, just did it.  maps -> menu -> "my location" -> search -> enter a place -> click place on map -> directions to thid address
Oct 26 04:36:27 <thoraxe> jcanfield_: and "my location" should automatically be the start
Oct 26 04:36:29 <jcanfield_> thoraxe, that shoed me the destination, but not directions?
Oct 26 04:36:45 <thoraxe> after you find the dest you have to touch it on the map
Oct 26 04:36:51 <jcanfield_> awww.
Oct 26 04:36:57 <thoraxe> which brings up another menu, where you can touch "directions to this address"
Oct 26 04:37:08 <thoraxe> which then brings up the two addresses, for which the start address is "my location"
Oct 26 04:37:12 <jcanfield_> go tit.
Oct 26 04:37:17 <jcanfield_> oops. IT
Oct 26 04:37:21 <thoraxe> yay! i can helped!
Oct 26 04:37:27 <thoraxe> lol ok i'm really going to bed now
Oct 26 04:37:29 <thoraxe> enjoy!
Oct 26 04:38:07 <pfft1> it looks like my AndroidMail.apk is not getting generated by the eclipse build ... but there are no build errors ... any ideas why?
Oct 26 04:38:20 <jcanfield_> thoraxe, interesting, now when i select directions is auto populated the my location field.
Oct 26 04:39:21 <jcanfield_> very cool!
Oct 26 04:39:34 <pfft1> it looks like my AndroidMail.apk is not getting generated by the eclipse build ... but there are no build errors ... any ideas where i could read up on this sort of thing?
Oct 26 04:39:40 <PoohbaLT> someone beat me to it already but if i wanted to build an AndroidBMI calculator.  where would I start?  any page to start me off with getting calculations down first and then the gui of it all?
Oct 26 04:41:28 <wastrel> wikipedia should have the formula it's just height/weight or vice versa isn't it?
Oct 26 04:42:08 <PoohbaLT> and a lil more
Oct 26 04:42:21 <PoohbaLT> but i just need to know how to do some calculations
Oct 26 04:42:46 <PoohbaLT> and then something on making the gui.  just four fields
Oct 26 04:47:15 <languish> I wonder if anyone created an app to upload images to sites like tinypic from the G1
Oct 26 04:48:17 <languish> not just flickr :/
Oct 26 04:48:35 <stearns> twitdroid supposedly does
Oct 26 04:48:51 <stearns> (uploads to twitpic, and I assume, captions the image in a tweet)
Oct 26 04:49:12 <languish> ugh
Oct 26 04:55:29 <Ramblurr> bah
Oct 26 04:55:40 * Ramblurr can't get the sound to work in the emulator
Oct 26 04:56:08 <umdk1d3> Ramblurr: your not alone
Oct 26 04:56:17 <umdk1d3> i spent a good chunk of time trying everything under the sun
Oct 26 04:56:39 <romainguy> linux? :)
Oct 26 04:56:47 <umdk1d3> yea  :/
Oct 26 04:57:06 <romainguy> glad to see that some things never change :)
Oct 26 04:57:33 <umdk1d3> sigh im too tired to write a comeback
Oct 26 04:57:46 <romainguy> :p
Oct 26 04:58:23 <Ramblurr> yea
Oct 26 04:58:54 <jasta> uhm, actually
Oct 26 04:58:57 <tparkin> your mom never changes
Oct 26 04:58:59 <tparkin> there you go
Oct 26 04:59:09 <Ramblurr> i'm surprised i didnt have to compile my own alsa driver when i got my G1 ;)
Oct 26 04:59:14 <jasta> the problem i had with sound on the emulator was that the emulator _incorrectly_ requests exclusive access from ALSA
Oct 26 04:59:34 <jasta> the simple workaround is to use aoss (which properly requests shared access) and ask the emulator to use OSS
Oct 26 04:59:46 <jasta> as in aoss emulator -audio-out oss
Oct 26 04:59:50 <umdk1d3> ohhhh ic
Oct 26 04:59:55 <umdk1d3> i only tried esd and alsa
Oct 26 05:00:05 <jasta> this is, of course, a bug in the emulator, despite romain's generally negative sentiment toward Linux :)
Oct 26 05:00:20 <romainguy> it's not negative sentiment
Oct 26 05:00:23 <romainguy> it's experience :)
Oct 26 05:00:26 <jasta> umdk1d3: the aoss wrapper is important, as OSS doesn't actually support software shared access
Oct 26 05:00:31 <romainguy> I remember sound being a mess a few years ago
Oct 26 05:00:34 <romainguy> seems like it hasn't changed :)
Oct 26 05:00:36 <geist> i winrar is linux
Oct 26 05:00:40 <jasta> and of course your system almost certainly is using ALSA for everything else
Oct 26 05:00:50 <jasta> romainguy: it has definitely, definitely changed.
Oct 26 05:01:02 <romainguy> why is there still esd, alsa, oss...?
Oct 26 05:01:07 <romainguy> (genuine question)
Oct 26 05:01:17 <jasta> well, OSS is sheer legacy, absolutely nothing new should use it
Oct 26 05:01:21 <DarkriftX> my sound works great
Oct 26 05:01:22 <romainguy> ok
Oct 26 05:01:28 <geist> my sound works terribly!
Oct 26 05:01:34 <DarkriftX> dont even know what driver its using
Oct 26 05:01:36 <geist> never got it to work right on this damn ubuntu box
Oct 26 05:01:46 <geist> and betteryet, my 8 core mac can't play a mp3 without stuttering
Oct 26 05:01:49 <umdk1d3> romainguy: alsa works great for everything else in my life, except that emulator
Oct 26 05:01:52 <DarkriftX> my wifi was a pain, but sound worke dout of the box on kubuntu 7.10
Oct 26 05:01:54 <jasta> romainguy: ESD is somewhat legacy, it was built as a crutch to early ALSA and current OSS to support software mixing of multiple sound inputs
Oct 26 05:02:08 <jasta> but today, ALSA supports software mixing in most cards, and so ESD is redundant for those systems (but not for all systems)
Oct 26 05:02:11 <umdk1d3> everyone should install JACK ^.^
Oct 26 05:02:24 <geist> jasta: what about usb audio?
Oct 26 05:02:30 <romainguy> geist: don't go there :)
Oct 26 05:02:32 <Ramblurr> huzza, i have sound
Oct 26 05:02:54 <geist> end up with pulseaudio to solve that
Oct 26 05:02:54 <jcanfield_> when we are done with the audio, I need help with my xorg.conf   :P
Oct 26 05:02:58 <geist> which has it's own set of issues
Oct 26 05:03:12 <romainguy> (reboot)
Oct 26 05:03:12 <jasta> romainguy: it's a layering issue.  ALSA and OSS are siblings, at the lower level and ALSA is much more modern, superior, and is default on any Linux install I've seen of late.  ESD is a higher layer, trying to collect multiple inputs and software mix them for _either_ ALSA or OSS
Oct 26 05:03:14 * geist has some first hand experience with pulseaudio.... *shiver*
Oct 26 05:03:29 <pfft1> it looks like my AndroidMail.apk is not getting generated by the eclipse build ... but there are no build errors ... any ideas why?
Oct 26 05:03:48 <jasta> i do
Oct 26 05:04:27 <umdk1d3> wait wtf?  romainguy_ and his wonderful mac just had to reboot??
Oct 26 05:04:31 * umdk1d3 chuckles in irony
Oct 26 05:04:40 <umdk1d3>  22:04:35 up 217 days, 18:51,  5 users,  load average: 1.01, 1.07, 0.86
Oct 26 05:04:53 <jasta> umdk1d3: do you know a while ago Linus originally had this idea that Linux 2.6 would be able to support kernel upgrades while running
Oct 26 05:05:01 <jasta> but he never got around to it.  a shame, really, that's ultimate bragging rights.
Oct 26 05:05:07 <jasta> i hope the next series supports this
Oct 26 05:05:12 <umdk1d3> cant you do it if you go down to a really low runlevel?
Oct 26 05:05:17 <geist> umdk1d3: you pay the power bill?
Oct 26 05:05:17 <spikebike> there are linux kernels that do support that
Oct 26 05:05:28 <umdk1d3> ohwait, thats part of the init system, which is way after kernel
Oct 26 05:05:28 <spikebike> it's just not in the mainline
Oct 26 05:05:28 <jasta> spikebike: oh really?
Oct 26 05:05:37 <umdk1d3> ive heard that its possible tho
Oct 26 05:05:39 <jasta> ah, right.
Oct 26 05:05:48 <spikebike> i'ts pretty common in the telecom area
Oct 26 05:06:11 <spikebike> theres even the ability to patch kernels while running
Oct 26 05:06:14 <geist> you're not talking about the kexec stuff?
Oct 26 05:06:19 <geist> in theory that works fine
Oct 26 05:07:12 <DarkriftX> wb romainguy
Oct 26 05:07:13 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 26 05:07:17 <geist> romainguy: dude, you got dissed
Oct 26 05:07:39 <geist> your need to reboot was commented on and ridiculed
Oct 26 05:08:00 <romainguy_> I saw that
Oct 26 05:08:19 <geist> haha, snap
Oct 26 05:08:37 <romainguy_> that's what happens on a Mac sometimes when you have to update system stuff
Oct 26 05:08:48 <OpenVirus> is there much of a difference from Java and Android if any?
Oct 26 05:09:00 <romainguy_> OpenVirus: Android uses the Java language
Oct 26 05:09:11 <umdk1d3> OpenVirus: the major difference is the entire GUI stack--its completely different than swing or awt
Oct 26 05:09:11 <romainguy_> some of the core APIs are the same (java.net, java.io, java.net, java.lang, etc.)
Oct 26 05:09:30 <romainguy_> but eh VM, the GC, the application framework and the GUI toolkit are different
Oct 26 05:09:32 <OpenVirus> oh ok
Oct 26 05:09:41 <OpenVirus> ah
Oct 26 05:09:59 <jasta> some of the core APIs?  i would say the overwhelming majority of core APIs are the same.
Oct 26 05:10:06 <spikebike> google I/O has a good dalvik talk for an overview (and the video is available)
Oct 26 05:10:11 <OpenVirus> Because I am learning Java right now for Android, but wanted to make sure if I was going to do double the work if there was a slight difference
Oct 26 05:10:44 <tparkin> OpenVirus: learning a "language" is different then learning to "develop for a platform"
Oct 26 05:11:00 <tparkin> learning Java will get you both, but you will need to learn slightly extra to do each
Oct 26 05:11:28 <OpenVirus> ok, but I need to know Java first before anything though right
Oct 26 05:11:37 <tparkin> you need to be familiar with it
Oct 26 05:11:52 <tparkin> hard to answer that question, depends on your programming background
Oct 26 05:12:55 <OpenVirus> eh know a small amount of C++, and as for Java, started learning it today and made a simple calculator so far
Oct 26 05:13:49 <tparkin> you should be fine with following the example code and scouring the docs, it's quick to pick up..especially with all the open source to peek at
Oct 26 05:14:39 * spikebike is pondering writing an RPN calc
Oct 26 05:14:55 <spikebike> not sure how many buttons are practical or if I should just wait for someone to do an p48 emulator
Oct 26 05:16:52 <OpenVirus> ya there is alot out there
Oct 26 05:19:41 <Ramblurr> romainguy_: do you have any suggestions on a speedy xml parsing toolkit to use?
Oct 26 05:22:37 <languish> is there any particular .apk out now that best demonstrates the G1's 3D capability?
Oct 26 05:22:50 <spikebike> seems gross to emaulate an old saturn cpu
Oct 26 05:22:59 <pfft1> it looks like my AndroidMail.apk is not getting generated by the eclipse build ... but there are no build errors ... any ideas why?
Oct 26 05:29:51 * waldo_ is back (gone 03:27:09)
Oct 26 05:30:40 * spikebike wonders if tmo @ home will work with the g1 in the future
Oct 26 05:31:46 <BruteSource> sorry about last night everyone i was way to drunk, even know thats no excuses for trolling.
Oct 26 05:31:51 <BruteSource> sorry swetland
Oct 26 05:34:52 <DarkriftX> heh, its ok, it was fun
Oct 26 05:35:07 <swetland> was wondering what got into you at the end. you totally went off the deep end ^^
Oct 26 05:35:48 <BruteSource> ya i consumed an entire 5th of crown royal
Oct 26 05:35:57 <AmericanM> no unlocking yet?
Oct 26 05:36:00 <BruteSource> i dont know wtf i was rambling about
Oct 26 05:36:28 <BruteSource> i was vommiting and reading the logs this morning
Oct 26 05:37:42 * jasta raises an eyebrow
Oct 26 05:37:54 <jasta> the Email app never closes connections
Oct 26 05:38:04 <jasta> it just chooses to close them implicitly when Android kills the process?
Oct 26 05:38:55 <BruteSource> anyways if anyone is willing to help me after I was such an ass I have a problem
Oct 26 05:39:13 <DarkriftX> ask away
Oct 26 05:39:22 <DarkriftX> im sure if someone knows the answer they will tell you
Oct 26 05:39:35 <OpenVirus> would it be hard to create a p2p app?
Oct 26 05:39:53 <DarkriftX> someone created a torrent downloader already, so thats a step
Oct 26 05:39:54 <jasta> OpenVirus: it wouldn't work over the cellular data connection
Oct 26 05:40:12 <loke> jasta: why not?
Oct 26 05:40:12 <jasta> or rather, it would work, but would be terribly slow and drain the battery like you wouldnt believe
Oct 26 05:40:17 <loke> ah
Oct 26 05:40:22 <loke> that makes more sense :-)
Oct 26 05:40:42 <OpenVirus> jasta, really? How so, just to download music? Something like Amazon
Oct 26 05:40:50 <jasta> multiplexing lots of connections like that with high throughput will be agonizing for the radio and cpu.
Oct 26 05:41:03 <jasta> OpenVirus: amazon is not peer-to-peer.
Oct 26 05:41:10 <jasta> it's in fact quite centralized.
Oct 26 05:41:14 <loke> the solution would be to create a two-tiered p2p downloader... A master server at your home that handles everything and then streams the result to your phone
Oct 26 05:41:26 <OpenVirus> a
Oct 26 05:41:28 <jasta> yeah that solution would be much smarter
Oct 26 05:41:28 <OpenVirus> ya*
Oct 26 05:41:34 <trigatch4> DarkriftX: whats the torrent app?
Oct 26 05:41:43 <jasta> however, thats by definition centralized :)
Oct 26 05:41:45 <trigatch4> jasta: how is five coming?
Oct 26 05:41:45 <DarkriftX> dont remember, i know it didnt work on g1
Oct 26 05:41:54 <jasta> trigatch4: great, although at the moment i'm hacking the e-mail app
Oct 26 05:42:03 <jasta> trigatch4: adding push support
Oct 26 05:42:15 <jasta> i need it for my work email
Oct 26 05:42:39 <trigatch4> when there is somethign i can demo/test lemme know and i'll video up a review, make a post and let potential devs know how they can contact you to offer help and whatnot
Oct 26 05:42:43 <trigatch4> if that is still of interest
Oct 26 05:42:52 <jasta> yes, it is.  i appreciate it.
Oct 26 05:43:03 <BruteSource> the person testing android on the excalibur seems to be getting date time probs and android_power errors
Oct 26 05:43:29 <DarkriftX> date/time problems? meaning x hours off of the timezone?
Oct 26 05:43:40 <DarkriftX> if so, thats standard for devices meant for windows but running linux
Oct 26 05:44:10 <pfft1> anyone else here find that you have to run eclipse with a 1.5Gigabyte vm just to get the normal apps to build?
Oct 26 05:44:15 <loke> are there any winodws phones that runs android more or less "properly"?
Oct 26 05:44:53 <BruteSource> no meaning it keeps reseting to 1970 (0 unix time) even know rtc is enabled
Oct 26 05:45:08 <DarkriftX> odd
Oct 26 05:45:14 <swetland> bs: that's weird. at boot or after booted?
Oct 26 05:45:42 <BruteSource> windows phones? isnt that like calling a dell a windows pc just because thats what came preinstalled on it?
Oct 26 05:45:47 <swetland> generally, I believe, the system will boot with time=0, then read the rtc at some point and ajust
Oct 26 05:46:21 <BruteSource> i guess ours wont read rtc for some reason
Oct 26 05:46:22 <DarkriftX> any device with windows mobile on it was designed for winmo, so yes, its a windows phone
Oct 26 05:46:30 <DarkriftX> not saying that shouldnt change, thats just a fact
Oct 26 05:46:33 <swetland> http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/  seems to be one of the furthest-along android-to-winmo-phone ports
Oct 26 05:46:55 <BruteSource> thats still like calling any pc preinstalled with windows a windows pc
Oct 26 05:47:00 <swetland> I suspect he'll be investigating building from the full source release
Oct 26 05:47:01 <DarkriftX> i personally cant wait to see android installable on almost any winmo device
Oct 26 05:47:32 <DarkriftX> BruteSource, no, its like calling a computer built by apple a mac computer
Oct 26 05:47:35 <swetland> bs: may be an issue with integration or lack thereof of the alarm driver
Oct 26 05:47:38 <BruteSource> remember the designed for winxp stickers?
Oct 26 05:48:08 <swetland> which is what we use for rtc-based wakeup and other stuff, and I *think* for rtc access from userspace, but I'd have to poke around the code to see
Oct 26 05:48:23 <BruteSource> ok thx
Oct 26 05:49:25 <swetland> our early prototypes were omap850 based devices very similar to excalibur. one of the guys on the team has been threatening to dust off that somewhat bit-rotted kernel tree and get it booting again
Oct 26 05:49:42 <DarkriftX> nice
Oct 26 05:49:46 <BruteSource> microsoft doesnt build htc devices though is all i am saying
Oct 26 05:49:58 <DarkriftX> would have loved to have android on my old wizard
Oct 26 05:50:00 <CryptixVirus> excalibur is the dash no?
Oct 26 05:50:02 <swetland> if he does, we'll look into tidying it up and publishing it
Oct 26 05:50:12 <BruteSource> swetland were can we get that kernel?
Oct 26 05:50:13 <spikebike> I believe teh treo pro and even the iphone are very close to the g1 hardware
Oct 26 05:50:22 <BruteSource> oh its not vailible
Oct 26 05:50:40 <BruteSource> the iphone is not even msm
Oct 26 05:50:42 <swetland> bs: we haven't published that stuff yet. it's probably still 2.6.19 based and pretty stale
Oct 26 05:50:53 <BruteSource> i dont think anyways could be wrong
Oct 26 05:50:54 <swetland> it's been over a year since we were building it
Oct 26 05:51:09 <swetland> iphone is not msm based
Oct 26 05:51:28 <swetland> uses a samsung cpu (custom for apple). don't recall the modem vendor
Oct 26 05:51:28 <spikebike> well I checked out the treo pro myself, I was taking someone elses word on the iphone
Oct 26 05:51:28 <BruteSource> well we have a kernel working pretty well anyways just not with the userspace lol
Oct 26 05:51:37 <spikebike> same qualcom cpu which includes most of the functionality of the phone
Oct 26 05:51:47 <swetland> do you have the log driver working and logcat running?
Oct 26 05:51:59 <BruteSource> the treo is xscale i believe
Oct 26 05:52:21 <BruteSource> or maybe thats the centro
Oct 26 05:52:23 <spikebike> treo pro was the identical qualcom 7201 I believe
Oct 26 05:52:23 <swetland> bs: depends on which treo. they've used a few different cpus over the years.
Oct 26 05:52:29 <spikebike> or whatever it is
Oct 26 05:52:31 <swetland> I think some of the winmo treos are 7201 based, yah
Oct 26 05:52:33 <BruteSource> swetland i sked him i am waiting
Oct 26 05:53:02 <spikebike> I wanted to track down the htc touch HD specs, but didn't
Oct 26 05:53:15 <spikebike> I'd trade a compass for a bigger screen and more ram any day
Oct 26 05:53:41 <swetland> g1 is pretty good on ram
Oct 26 05:53:47 <swetland> I wish we had gone with more on-board flash
Oct 26 05:54:34 <BruteSource> well the dream is only the frst android device
Oct 26 05:54:39 <swetland> if I could go back and change anything about the hw design, it'd be: remove the trackball and put a dpad on the keyboard plane and bump up to 512MB or 1GB onboard flash
Oct 26 05:54:43 <swetland> yup
Oct 26 05:54:48 <BruteSource> i hear motorola is next
Oct 26 05:54:55 <swetland> hopefully we'll see a variety of devices in 09
Oct 26 05:55:14 <swetland> and with the whole thing open sourced, I can't wait to see the first device I have never heard about ship
Oct 26 05:55:18 <BruteSource> and a better keyboard
Oct 26 05:55:42 <BruteSource> one with some real physical feedback
Oct 26 05:57:46 <languish> oh crap
Oct 26 05:57:48 <languish> wtf
Oct 26 05:58:02 <BruteSource> does logcat start automaticly if the log driver is compiled in?
Oct 26 05:58:05 <BruteSource> swetlan
Oct 26 05:58:09 <BruteSource> swetland
Oct 26 05:58:27 <languish> the damn e-mail app on the g1 was [sending] WHILE I was composing
Oct 26 05:58:32 <languish> wtf
Oct 26 05:58:41 <spikebike> drafts?
Oct 26 05:58:42 <BruteSource> weird
Oct 26 05:58:43 <languish> it send this guy 8 damn drafts
Oct 26 05:58:44 <languish> yes
Oct 26 05:58:49 <geist> nice
Oct 26 05:58:52 <geist> imap?
Oct 26 05:58:55 <languish> yes
Oct 26 05:58:59 <spikebike> oh
Oct 26 05:59:00 <languish> *sent
Oct 26 05:59:02 <geist> the imap bits seem o have serious issues
Oct 26 05:59:06 <languish> no shit
Oct 26 05:59:13 <geist> against my server doesn't seem to be able to push anything ack
Oct 26 05:59:20 <geist> no deletes, no drafts, no sent
Oct 26 05:59:28 <BruteSource> canyou get push if you use pop?
Oct 26 05:59:29 <languish> I'm afraid to compose another email on this thing now
Oct 26 05:59:39 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 26 05:59:44 <geist> haven't seen that but i should test it now that you mentioned it
Oct 26 05:59:45 <DarkriftX> use pop
Oct 26 05:59:48 <geist> i only sent a test email or two
Oct 26 06:00:05 <DarkriftX> or, write the email before you fill in the "to" part
Oct 26 06:00:10 <languish> It's a second gmail address I use. I set it up in the E-mail not the gmail app
Oct 26 06:00:39 <languish> I just logged in to gmail to see 8 damn copies of the shit were sent to him
Oct 26 06:01:27 <languish> thankfully this wasn't business related
Oct 26 06:02:03 <gambler> Has anyone used Amazons EC2 to host their website?
Oct 26 06:02:04 <swetland> bs: logcat is run to read the log contents out of the driver
Oct 26 06:02:26 <BruteSource> aw i see
Oct 26 06:02:51 <swetland> you'll need serial or serial/net over usb or whatnot
Oct 26 06:03:25 <BruteSource> ya he is using that
Oct 26 06:03:29 <BruteSource> usb
Oct 26 06:03:41 <geist> could be your imap server is using some sort of auto-send-on-sent-folder-move feature
Oct 26 06:03:46 <geist> i think i've heard of such a thing
Oct 26 06:04:04 <geist> and if the client is dumping temporary copies of the draft as you're writing it...
Oct 26 06:04:10 <BruteSource> all this and we have no working radio drivers for when we get it working
Oct 26 06:04:33 <languish> geist, it's a G1 and google mail, but using the g1's "email" app, not gmail app
Oct 26 06:04:46 <geist> ah
Oct 26 06:04:51 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 26 06:05:19 <languish> since the gmail app doesn't allow a second address
Oct 26 06:05:32 <geist> ah, was wondering about that
Oct 26 06:05:40 <BruteSource> swetland that old stale kernel you guys had for omap850 does it happen to have radio support?
Oct 26 06:06:11 <geist> oh, so BruteSource admits that swetland works at google now?
Oct 26 06:06:23 <BruteSource> i deserve that
Oct 26 06:06:37 <languish> you're so deserving..
Oct 26 06:06:47 <languish> ..so very..deserving...
Oct 26 06:07:21 <BruteSource> sigh... i apologized, but i guess i will be getting some grief.
Oct 26 06:07:38 <languish> I'm just wondering what you were on
Oct 26 06:08:11 <languish> wait
Oct 26 06:08:12 <geist> i'll let you in on a little secret. he's mostly a manager
Oct 26 06:08:18 <geist> so it's not like he actually 'works'
Oct 26 06:08:19 <BruteSource> crown royal, you can read the whole stry in the scroll ack
Oct 26 06:08:25 <languish> BruteSource admitting he was wrong and apologizing?  .. IMPOSTER
Oct 26 06:08:28 <nice_burger> anyone, how does one start eclipse?
Oct 26 06:08:31 <BruteSource> anyways
Oct 26 06:08:33 <geist> haha
Oct 26 06:09:34 <BruteSource> swetland if you can find working omap radio stuff you would be my god
Oct 26 06:09:51 <geist> omap850. *shudder*
Oct 26 06:09:59 <geist> dealt with that a bit in my day
Oct 26 06:10:02 <geist> that was a bear
Oct 26 06:10:26 <BruteSource> easest device i have ever put linux on besides a pc lol
Oct 26 06:10:33 <BruteSource> easier than msm
Oct 26 06:10:40 <geist> yeah, when i was screwing with it it was a custom OS
Oct 26 06:10:43 <BruteSource> easiest
Oct 26 06:10:47 <geist> so ground up, the omap1 stuff was a bit gnarly
Oct 26 06:10:55 <geist> documentation was pretty crappy at the time
Oct 26 06:11:00 <geist> since then TI has cleaned up their act a bit
Oct 26 06:11:03 <geist> omap3 isn't so bad
Oct 26 06:11:50 <BruteSource> why am i watching grease?
Oct 26 06:13:14 <BruteSource> i think i might try psp linux on my slim
Oct 26 06:13:18 <loke> BruteSource: becaus it's a decent movie?
Oct 26 06:13:34 <loke> there is psp linux?
Oct 26 06:13:54 <BruteSource> ya i know alot of people who like it, me personally am not big on musicals
Oct 26 06:14:11 <BruteSource> besides of course rhps
Oct 26 06:14:15 <loke> BruteSource: to be fair, it must be 20 years since I saw it :-)
Oct 26 06:14:26 <loke> rhps?
Oct 26 06:14:43 <BruteSource> rocky horror picture show
Oct 26 06:14:47 <loke> oh
Oct 26 06:14:51 <loke> I never saw
Oct 26 06:15:09 <BruteSource> oh try sometime if you can
Oct 26 06:15:29 <loke> good?
Oct 26 06:15:33 <nice_burger> it's just a step to the left...
Oct 26 06:15:35 <loke> (I expetcty ou to say yes)
Oct 26 06:15:53 <BruteSource> yes
Oct 26 06:16:01 <BruteSource> a step to the left?
Oct 26 06:16:13 <BruteSource> its more liberal?
Oct 26 06:17:16 <BruteSource> what happened to swetland?
Oct 26 06:17:33 <DarkriftX> life probably called
Oct 26 06:17:49 <BruteSource> ya i wish i had that problem
Oct 26 06:19:16 <BruteSource> aparently my logs say i was also drunken trolling ##linux and #defocus as well last night
Oct 26 06:19:49 <DarkriftX> did you see linus and say he was fake while you were at it?
Oct 26 06:20:41 <BruteSource> lmao no i was arguing how stallman deserves more credit for the opensource movement than linus though
Oct 26 06:20:42 <BruteSource> lmao
Oct 26 06:21:00 <umdk1d3> mmm i see some credibility there
Oct 26 06:21:18 <DarkriftX> screw that
Oct 26 06:21:22 <BruteSource> ya me to since he created fsf
Oct 26 06:21:24 <DarkriftX> al gore invented open source you morons
Oct 26 06:21:58 <BruteSource> and linus had to be talked into even making the linux kernel opensource
Oct 26 06:22:11 <umdk1d3> he was around alot earlier than linus, and already had an entire toolchain developed
Oct 26 06:22:26 <umdk1d3> linus was able to stand on their sholders
Oct 26 06:22:39 * umdk1d3 is advocate for calling it GNU/Linux
Oct 26 06:22:43 <BruteSource> yes and a nice set of tools
Oct 26 06:22:56 <BruteSource> very important tools
Oct 26 06:23:31 <BruteSource> the funny thing about stallman is that he stil develops "gnu os" which is useless to the world
Oct 26 06:24:33 <BruteSource> but the logs say i was really bad arguing posix compliance importance
Oct 26 06:24:50 <BruteSource> all sorts of retarded things
Oct 26 06:25:28 <BruteSource> i also started a distro war
Oct 26 06:26:20 <BruteSource> the point is no more drinking and irc'n for me
Oct 26 06:26:33 <loke> BruteSource: what do you mean with "and linus had to be talked into even making the linux kernel opensource"
Oct 26 06:26:34 <loke> ?
Oct 26 06:27:02 <loke> I actually remember reading the first famous usenet posts when they happened (I was into the Minix community back then)
Oct 26 06:27:18 <umdk1d3> BruteSource: need irc-goggles?  ;)
Oct 26 06:27:44 <languish> <BruteSource> the point is no more drinking and irc'n for me
Oct 26 06:27:53 <languish> ... until the next time!
Oct 26 06:28:34 <BruteSource> i read that linus's first minix replacemnt was not open, and he didnt want to share the source
Oct 26 06:29:18 <languish> sometimes, people learn from their mistakes.
Oct 26 06:29:22 <BruteSource> i hink i read that in the wiki article about linux kernel
Oct 26 06:29:32 <BruteSource> think
Oct 26 06:30:02 <loke> BruteSource: i think you're wrong. let me google
Oct 26 06:30:24 <BruteSource> like i said i might be wrong lol
Oct 26 06:30:42 <loke> http://kerneltrap.org/node/14002
Oct 26 06:31:01 <loke> Kernel 0.01:
Oct 26 06:31:02 <loke> "This kernel is (C) 1991 Linus Torvalds, but all or part of it may be
Oct 26 06:31:02 <loke> redistributed provided you do the following:
Oct 26 06:31:02 <loke> 	- Full source must be available (and free), if not with the
Oct 26 06:31:02 <loke> 	  distribution then at least on asking for it."
Oct 26 06:31:32 <loke> this was before he chose the GPL for the kernel, I believe
Oct 26 06:31:44 <DarkriftX> anyone here able to build me an image that is more like the g1 and less like the emulator version?
Oct 26 06:32:04 <DarkriftX> i need soemthign I can test apps in for g1 compatibility
Oct 26 06:33:44 <romainguy> the G1 is the same as the emulator, with just a few more apps
Oct 26 06:33:48 <romainguy> that should not be affecting your app :)
Oct 26 06:33:56 <romainguy> (unless you talk to these "missing" apps)
Oct 26 06:34:11 <DarkriftX> well i know tons of apps worked fine on the emu, but failed on the g1
Oct 26 06:34:17 <romainguy> sure
Oct 26 06:34:20 <DarkriftX> soemone in here said that was because the image was a lot different
Oct 26 06:34:23 <DarkriftX> was taht wrong?
Oct 26 06:34:23 <romainguy> but I highly doubt it's because of the extra apps
Oct 26 06:34:27 <DarkriftX> oh
Oct 26 06:34:31 <romainguy> the image is not very different
Oct 26 06:34:43 <romainguy> just a bunch of apps
Oct 26 06:34:44 <BruteSource> if you read the wiki article it just says it wasnt gpl'd from the beginning it did have a differentlicence at the beginning
Oct 26 06:34:50 <romainguy> but the code is the same on the Java layer
Oct 26 06:35:16 <DarkriftX> so testing needs to be done on the device and there is no way around that
Oct 26 06:35:20 <BruteSource> 0.1 is not necesarily the first linux
Oct 26 06:35:28 <romainguy> DarkriftX: depends on you rapp
Oct 26 06:35:53 <romainguy> DarkriftX: for instance my two apps ShutterSpeed and Photostream worked just the same on the emulator and the device
Oct 26 06:35:59 <romainguy> but that's because I don't use hardware APIs
Oct 26 06:36:11 <DarkriftX> it will be a lot of apps, so i need accuracy
Oct 26 06:36:25 <romainguy> get a G1 :)
Oct 26 06:36:30 <DarkriftX> heh
Oct 26 06:36:32 <DarkriftX> i want to
Oct 26 06:36:45 <DarkriftX> seriously thinking about it
Oct 26 06:37:20 <BruteSource> i would buy one if i culd without some crazy ebay markup
Oct 26 06:37:30 <BruteSource> could
Oct 26 06:38:42 <BruteSource> guess i will have to wait for them to sell it full retail
Oct 26 06:38:49 <loke> I'm waiting for a proper android phone (i.e, not telco-sponsored)
Oct 26 06:39:11 <BruteSource> good luck, might a well port it
Oct 26 06:39:29 <BruteSource> plus the dream is a beautiful device even without android
Oct 26 06:39:29 <loke> I'm just annoyed that HTC couldn't put android on one of their really beautify designs ike the diamond
Oct 26 06:39:32 <Runt> the tmobile sponshorship is -$20
Oct 26 06:39:33 <BruteSource> the hw alone
Oct 26 06:39:48 <romainguy> Runt: ?
Oct 26 06:39:51 <loke> or the touch pro
Oct 26 06:40:06 <BruteSource> i just wish it had multi touch and more flash
Oct 26 06:40:14 <BruteSource> or the jade
Oct 26 06:40:34 <Runt> $220 discount for a 2 year contract, with a $200 fee for breaking the contract
Oct 26 06:40:45 <romainguy> ah :)
Oct 26 06:41:25 <BruteSource> there is always an etf no matter the phone, what doesthat have to do with sponsership?
Oct 26 06:41:26 <Runt> or something :)
Oct 26 06:43:18 <BruteSource> i want to know when google is going to release a pc os
Oct 26 06:43:25 <BruteSource> or if they will
Oct 26 06:43:37 <BruteSource> maybe buy sunos and fix it
Oct 26 06:46:19 <BruteSource> he is trying to use logcat to see why after android goes into suspend it wont come back, unfortunetly the suspend stops a bunch of procceses including usb
Oct 26 06:46:39 <BruteSource> so cant get the logcat output :(
Oct 26 06:47:13 <swetland> you might want to disable suspend/resume until everything else is working. that stuff is a nightmare to debug
Oct 26 06:47:33 <BruteSource> ya how?
Oct 26 06:47:43 <BruteSource> cant find it in the userspace
Oct 26 06:48:12 * swetland takes a look
Oct 26 06:48:26 <BruteSource> thanks
Oct 26 06:48:43 <DarkriftX> download spree eh languish?
Oct 26 06:49:33 <BruteSource> well that explains our problem suspend is also stoppig the sd mount
Oct 26 06:50:01 <swetland> suspend will pretty much stop everything
Oct 26 06:50:44 <BruteSource> ya well stopping mount is fatal
Oct 26 06:51:09 <BruteSource> so if you know how to disable it that would be great
Oct 26 06:51:16 <swetland> here we go
Oct 26 06:51:25 <swetland> hardware/libhardware/power/power.c
Oct 26 06:51:51 <BruteSource> thanks
Oct 26 06:52:11 <swetland> make set_screen_on() a no-op
Oct 26 06:52:16 <swetland> and I think that should do the trick
Oct 26 06:52:23 <swetland> er set_screen_state()
Oct 26 06:53:02 <swetland> basically, when the screen timeout happens we request that the system go to standby, expecting that wakelocks will keep it awake when there's pending events, etc
Oct 26 06:53:34 <swetland> if the wakelock stuff is not rigged up on your platform or suspend/resume are not working right, you'll not likely survive the first attempt to suspend
Oct 26 06:54:15 <BruteSource> ya we havent been lol
Oct 26 06:55:36 <BruteSource> no we can get at the real issues, like the time one first of al
Oct 26 06:55:39 <BruteSource> all
Oct 26 06:57:11 * swetland nods. pm is best left for last. once you're all excited that everything works, you can spend weeks tearing your hair out trying to get pm to work, battery life to be reasonable, etc ^^
Oct 26 06:58:07 <languish> speaking of battery life.. does the backlight for the keyboard on the G1 really use so much battery it had to bet set to turn off as quickly as it does?
Oct 26 06:58:15 <BruteSource> ya well radio drivers would be nice
Oct 26 06:58:16 <languish> -t
Oct 26 06:58:23 <DarkriftX> ouch! my forum categories look like shit on the emulator browser. too much text on them
Oct 26 06:58:32 <swetland> yes, the keyboard backlight is fairly expensive
Oct 26 06:58:41 <swetland> not as bad as the lcd backlight, but not cheap
Oct 26 06:58:42 <languish> damn
Oct 26 06:59:00 <languish> nod
Oct 26 06:59:30 <BruteSource> wow penguinz has been in here the whole time i have been relaying him all the information via im
Oct 26 06:59:43 <languish> heh
Oct 26 07:00:01 <BruteSource> and i dont even have copy paste abilities
Oct 26 07:00:18 <BruteSource> lol oh wel i guess i deserve it for being a tard last night
Oct 26 07:01:51 <BruteSource> penguinz meet swetland he is a very nice helpful guy :)
Oct 26 07:02:31 <geist> dont be so hasty
Oct 26 07:02:43 <geist> he stole my snes game and never gave it back
Oct 26 07:02:43 <penguinz> Yes, thanks for the assistance.
Oct 26 07:02:53 <geist> all in the name of progress
Oct 26 07:02:58 <swetland> geist: for science!
Oct 26 07:03:06 <swetland> I'll find that cart one of these days
Oct 26 07:03:11 <penguinz> which game did he steal?
Oct 26 07:03:18 <BruteSource> your like a spy penguinz especially when i have no chan user list
Oct 26 07:03:20 * geist was left with just an empty husk of a game
Oct 26 07:03:27 <geist> penguinz: super mario all stars
Oct 26 07:03:39 <BruteSource> yes best snes game
Oct 26 07:03:39 <penguinz> ooh, pretty good one there...
Oct 26 07:03:47 <BruteSource> besides paper mario
Oct 26 07:03:48 <geist> yeah
Oct 26 07:03:54 <BruteSource> and mario rpg
Oct 26 07:03:55 * geist weeps silently
Oct 26 07:04:04 <swetland> nobody holds a grudge like geist
Oct 26 07:04:09 <BruteSource> oh chrono trigger
Oct 26 07:04:14 <swetland> I will never live this down, even if I do find it
Oct 26 07:04:29 <geist> the emotional scars will never heal
Oct 26 07:05:00 <BruteSource> dis he at least give you the rom on a burnt cd?
Oct 26 07:05:12 <geist> he gave me an empty plastic case
Oct 26 07:05:28 <BruteSource> lol
Oct 26 07:06:01 <BruteSource> you know there is a super famicom cdrom that can read snes roms from a disk?
Oct 26 07:06:16 <geist> LIES.
Oct 26 07:06:25 <geist> there is but one way to play snes games
Oct 26 07:06:54 <BruteSource> from cart?
Oct 26 07:06:59 <geist> on a snes
Oct 26 07:07:10 <languish> DarkriftX, spacebugsdemo doesn't install
Oct 26 07:07:16 <BruteSource> well when i uses my snes with cdrom its still native
Oct 26 07:07:23 <geist> fair enough
Oct 26 07:07:33 <BruteSource> i am using an snes just with a cdrom
Oct 26 07:07:37 <DarkriftX> ok, ill get it removed in a few mins
Oct 26 07:07:38 <geist> at least it's not an emulator
Oct 26 07:08:06 <DarkriftX> making the forum index more device friendly (have some VERY long forum descriptions that look bad in the emulator)
Oct 26 07:08:54 <languish> nod
Oct 26 07:14:00 <BruteSource> man the only way i can try the android he has so far is to download about 50 mb over edge with no resume support
Oct 26 07:16:24 <BruteSource> and opera likes to get about 70% and stop
Oct 26 07:17:18 <BruteSource> so swetland do you know if that old android for omap850 you were talking about had working radio support?
Oct 26 07:18:21 <BruteSource> because i cant find any working linux omap850 radio drivers
Oct 26 07:18:36 <BruteSource> and no one is working on any really besides from upstram
Oct 26 07:18:42 <BruteSource> upstream
Oct 26 07:25:35 <BruteSource> i guess that means he doesnt know or care lol
Oct 26 07:32:00 <BruteSource> is there a guy named lovecraft in hereh
Oct 26 07:32:51 <languish> H.P. you in here?
Oct 26 07:46:40 <dvyjones> If I want android I should port linux to my PDA, then build android using a crosscompiler?
Oct 26 07:47:12 <DarkriftX> jeez languish, between you and soevol im getting dizzy
Oct 26 07:47:17 <DarkriftX> posting, replying etc
Oct 26 07:48:34 <languish> DarkriftX, don't assume you need to be on top of everything, you can't be :)
Oct 26 07:48:53 <DarkriftX> till i get more help on the site i can try :)
Oct 26 07:48:58 <languish> lol
Oct 26 07:49:04 <DarkriftX> you and him test shit too fast though lol
Oct 26 07:49:17 <languish> this is fast?
Oct 26 07:49:20 <BruteSource> dvyjones or patch the android kernel for your device
Oct 26 07:49:20 <languish> o.O
Oct 26 07:49:21 <DarkriftX> hard enough keeping up with one of you, but both of you are on at the same time
Oct 26 07:49:50 <dvyjones> BruteSource: Any guides for that?
Oct 26 07:50:25 <BruteSource> xda forums and google
Oct 26 07:50:55 <BruteSource> maybe ask in #htc-linux if there is a project already for your device
Oct 26 07:51:08 <dvyjones> I started it on handhelds.org :P
Oct 26 08:02:36 <DarkriftX> languish, do me a favor, on the ones you test and comment on, put something in there like we discussed about the + or - so I know
Oct 26 08:04:58 <languish> DarkriftX, ok, in future will do so. you can tell from my comments about the functionality though. If I don't comment, and vote it's working, then it's a +
Oct 26 08:05:10 <DarkriftX> k
Oct 26 08:05:25 <DarkriftX> i cant tell who voted though
Oct 26 08:05:32 <languish> ahh 'k
Oct 26 08:05:37 <DarkriftX> so if you dont comment, its just a vote and it could be from anyone
Oct 26 08:05:41 <languish> nod
Oct 26 08:18:25 <dvyjones> Is it possible to make Google Maps download some of the maps onto the device, so you don't have to pay for all the data traffic?
Oct 26 08:18:42 <languish> no..
Oct 26 08:18:46 <Wander_w> not yet
Oct 26 08:18:58 <Wander_w> but will you let us know when you are finished?
Oct 26 08:19:30 <BruteSource> on iphone there is an app that lets you download the maps and use them
Oct 26 08:19:38 <romainguy> dvyjones: no, and unless I'm mistaken, it's against the ToS
Oct 26 08:19:42 <BruteSource> its open source you could port it
Oct 26 08:20:40 <BruteSource> but wy would anyone use a pay per usage net plan?
Oct 26 08:20:45 <BruteSource> why
Oct 26 08:21:29 <languish> not everyone lives in the land of unlimited data plans
Oct 26 08:22:01 <languish> which makes me wonder where dvyjones is from
Oct 26 08:22:07 <dvyjones> Norway
Oct 26 08:22:12 <BruteSource> tmobile offers unlimited net to all customers
Oct 26 08:22:47 <dvyjones> T-Mobile is not in Norway :P
Oct 26 08:23:15 <BruteSource> oh ya your not using a g1
Oct 26 08:23:23 <dvyjones> The nearest I can get is the IPhone plan fron NetCom, which only works with the iPhone...
Oct 26 08:23:44 * dvyjones would buy the G1 faster than you could say Android if it was in Norway :P
Oct 26 08:24:00 <dvyjones> S/was in/was available in/
Oct 26 08:24:09 <BruteSource> well by the time there are actual working radio for andriod omap850 you might have unlimited net
Oct 26 08:24:30 <dvyjones> YEs, you never know :
Oct 26 08:24:31 <dvyjones> :P
Oct 26 08:26:50 <dvyjones> Shoudl android be built with Cross-Compiler or the ordinary compiler?
Oct 26 08:27:20 <BruteSource> arch=arm
Oct 26 08:27:24 <BruteSource> you need the android toolchain
Oct 26 08:27:37 <dvyjones> K
Oct 26 08:28:23 <BruteSource> but for now you should just try getting the linwizard kernel working then patch it for android
Oct 26 08:28:46 <languish> ugh. I am really hating this USBext port for the headphones
Oct 26 08:28:50 <dvyjones> BruteSource: I'm trying to get linwizard over to my device :P
Oct 26 08:29:07 <dvyjones> languish: I made a ExtUSB -> Minijack port...
Oct 26 08:29:32 <dvyjones> Just fiddling about with opening the plugs and cables :P
Oct 26 08:29:34 <BruteSource> ya that usb ext is retarded
Oct 26 08:29:49 <languish> dvyjones, the minijack issue isn't the only reason. The port placement when charging it or using the headphones, is in the way when typing on it
Oct 26 08:30:17 <dvyjones> languish: What HTC phone are you using?
Oct 26 08:30:24 <languish> G1
Oct 26 08:30:28 <dvyjones> Oh :P
Oct 26 08:30:31 <languish> :)
Oct 26 08:30:50 * dvyjones tries to recall how it looks like
Oct 26 08:31:05 <dvyjones> It's on the bottom? (beneath the buttons on the bent part
Oct 26 08:31:17 <dvyjones> So it's on the right side when you pull out the keyboard...
Oct 26 08:31:39 <languish> yes
Oct 26 08:32:25 <languish> and with the chin in the right side, which you have to position your hand around, and the cable sticking out of the port, it's a significant pain in the ass
Oct 26 08:32:33 <languish> in/on
Oct 26 08:33:09 <romainguy> I hated the placement of the chin at first
Oct 26 08:33:16 <romainguy> I guess I got used to it after a few months :))
Oct 26 08:33:31 <dvyjones> Chin = the bent part on the bottom of the G1?
Oct 26 08:33:36 <romainguy> yeah
Oct 26 08:33:43 <romainguy> that's the part on the right of the keyboard in landscape
Oct 26 08:33:46 <languish> romainguy, yeah i can get used to the chin, but the cable sticking out of the port, I'll never get used to when trying to type
Oct 26 08:34:02 <romainguy> got used to that to
Oct 26 08:34:17 <romainguy> I guess that's what happens when you code/debug on a G1 8 hours a day for 18 months :))
Oct 26 08:34:18 * dvyjones thinks the port should be on the right or left side when collapsed
Oct 26 08:34:24 <romainguy> (with the G1 connected via USB)
Oct 26 08:34:26 <BruteSource> they newest shipments of g1's include an ect usb to 3.5 heaphone jack
Oct 26 08:34:41 <BruteSource> ext
Oct 26 08:34:56 <languish> yes, early adopters get screwed
Oct 26 08:35:00 <languish> :/
Oct 26 08:35:08 <romainguy> well
Oct 26 08:35:13 <romainguy> "very" early adopters :))
Oct 26 08:35:14 <languish> but we get it early
Oct 26 08:35:38 <languish> romainguy, 'eh, consumer pre-order..
Oct 26 08:35:44 <romainguy> I know :
Oct 26 08:35:45 <romainguy> :)
Oct 26 08:35:58 <romainguy> that said, T-Mobile warned about this
Oct 26 08:36:08 <languish> yes
Oct 26 08:36:08 <romainguy> but yeah, it sucks
Oct 26 08:36:33 <BruteSource> the adpter costs like 10 dollars its not that bad lol
Oct 26 08:36:34 <languish> but they should have made up fro it by providing it free in-store to pre-order customers
Oct 26 08:36:39 <BruteSource> adapter
Oct 26 08:36:44 <languish> *for
Oct 26 08:36:46 <romainguy> BruteSource: you can even find it for less than that
Oct 26 08:36:54 <BruteSource> ya
Oct 26 08:37:00 <languish> yea, they're like $150 to $3
Oct 26 08:37:01 <languish> err
Oct 26 08:37:05 <languish> $1.50
Oct 26 08:37:31 <BruteSource> i have one for my excalibur thay lets you charge and use regular headphones at the same time
Oct 26 08:37:43 <languish> I'm just getting tired of hearing the shit from people I advocated android to, and having the same issues
Oct 26 08:38:06 <languish> being that it's really just hardware/business issues
Oct 26 08:38:26 <languish> not the most consumer friendly launch
Oct 26 08:38:49 <languish> but for devs it's a dream :)
Oct 26 08:38:50 <romainguy> it's not worse than many many many phones on the market
Oct 26 08:38:57 <romainguy> languish: hence the code name :p
Oct 26 08:39:43 <anno^da_> I dont care how worse it is or it is not. I just want to get one and cant. :/
Oct 26 08:40:13 <anno^da_> this non worldwide launch sucks :-)
Oct 26 08:40:28 <romainguy> everybody has a reason to complain :)
Oct 26 08:40:33 <languish> yeah.. I speak amongst those who have none
Oct 26 08:40:37 <languish> :|
Oct 26 08:40:38 <BruteSource> its funny its just google saying hey we can have the best apps out there offer them for free not have to build or support them
Oct 26 08:40:48 <BruteSource> win in situation for tmobile
Oct 26 08:41:03 <anno^da_> romainguy: Yeah I know that. :D It is just a mess developing without real hardware.
Oct 26 08:41:12 <romainguy> anno^da_: "mess" is a strong word
Oct 26 08:41:20 <anno^da_> Yeah ok it is sorry.
Oct 26 08:41:31 <romainguy> you should have seen how long we worked on it without hardware :)
Oct 26 08:41:38 <anno^da_> After one year of developing with Android hardware would be nice. :-)
Oct 26 08:41:52 <anno^da_> Ok thats true. :-)
Oct 26 08:42:06 <romainguy> I mean, the new HVGA  and touch UI was developed almost entirely with no or very little access to hardware :)
Oct 26 08:42:06 <languish> I'd just have preferred not to think that i really will spend the money on a touch pro now, because I'm uncomfortable with the G1, which will stay at home for me to play with for fun and interest
Oct 26 08:42:17 <romainguy> that was fun when implementing flings and other stuff like this :))
Oct 26 08:42:36 <anno^da_> But looking at the G1 all over the internet ant not being able to get one is very hard.
Oct 26 08:42:42 <BruteSource> im curious to see what motorola launches with there 350 android devs
Oct 26 08:42:57 <languish> actually, maybe I won't go touch pro, it likely has some of the same issues
Oct 26 08:43:14 <languish> damn usbext port ont he bottom
Oct 26 08:43:26 <anno^da_> But I dont want to pay 500$ and help some ebay guys to make money.
Oct 26 08:43:27 <BruteSource> the touch pro doesnt even have a hw keyboard does it?
Oct 26 08:43:34 <languish> it does
Oct 26 08:43:47 <languish> touch pro is a beautiful little device
Oct 26 08:44:01 <BruteSource> not as beautiful as the jade
Oct 26 08:44:27 <languish> you don't even know the touch pro has a keyboard, so your opinion on comparison is moot
Oct 26 08:44:33 <anno^da_> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/223 <- Mark Shuttleworth is dreaming. :-)
Oct 26 08:44:42 <BruteSource> anno i have the same prob i owe tmobile money and use flexpay cant get a contract
Oct 26 08:44:44 <languish> shuttleworth is an idiot
Oct 26 08:45:20 <languish> ahh wait
Oct 26 08:45:20 <anno^da_> Oh well wouldnt be that rude.
Oct 26 08:45:22 <BruteSource> languish no current htc device compares with the jade, just as far as the hardware
Oct 26 08:45:29 <languish> I was thinking of the prez of sprint
Oct 26 08:45:30 <languish> my bad
Oct 26 08:45:35 <anno^da_> :-)
Oct 26 08:45:37 <languish> hesse or whatever his name is
Oct 26 08:45:45 <anno^da_> Shuttleworth = Ubuntu ;)
Oct 26 08:45:48 <languish> yeah
Oct 26 08:45:59 <languish> brain's crossing the streams
Oct 26 08:46:52 <BruteSource> languish look at the jade specs
Oct 26 08:49:10 <languish> i think I'm just gonna go sleep
Oct 26 08:50:35 <dvyjones> Bye languish
Oct 26 08:52:19 <BruteSource> is it even possible to get android flashed to the rom once we get everything working perfect?
Oct 26 08:52:45 <romainguy> BruteSource: not on the G1
Oct 26 08:52:52 <romainguy> at least not the G1 sold by T-Mobile
Oct 26 08:54:05 <BruteSource> the only one who will ever sell the "g1" is tmobile thats the tmobile name for the htc dream lol
Oct 26 08:54:15 <DarkriftX> i wonder if someone could figure out how to do their own OTA updates :S
Oct 26 08:54:43 <DarkriftX> BruteSource, im sure he means a non developer G1
Oct 26 08:54:49 <BruteSource> and the g1 already has android in the rom i mean on non android devices
Oct 26 08:54:53 <DarkriftX> my guess is developers versions have some differences
Oct 26 08:54:54 <romainguy> BruteSource: well at work we do have G1s in G1 boxes, but totally unlocked :))
Oct 26 08:54:57 <romainguy> but we kinda need them :)
Oct 26 08:55:05 <romainguy> the dev versions are exactly the same
Oct 26 08:55:10 <romainguy> safe software, same hardware
Oct 26 08:55:12 <romainguy> just unlocked :)
Oct 26 08:55:41 <DarkriftX> s/non developer/developer/
Oct 26 08:55:47 <BruteSource> im talking about flashing user created android onto other htc devices
Oct 26 08:56:06 <BruteSource> and im sure it wont belong before someone unlocks the g1
Oct 26 08:56:29 <swetland> almost a week and no live exploits in the wild! ^^
Oct 26 08:56:47 <romainguy> swetland: dang, does that mean you guys did your job correctly? :)
Oct 26 08:57:01 <anno^da_> Sell this unlocked ones. :-) Why do they need this lock? Just for T-Mobile or are there other reasons ?
Oct 26 08:57:02 <swetland> romainguy: adam was convinced it'd be rooted in 24 hours of launch
Oct 26 08:57:13 <languish> or no one with the skills cares enough :/
Oct 26 08:57:13 <romainguy> swetland: well based on other devices... :))
Oct 26 08:57:30 <swetland> anno: we're looking into options for doing direct sale of unlocked developer hardware. nothing to announce yet.
Oct 26 08:57:32 <romainguy> anno^da_: because T-Mobile subsidizes the phone, so it makes sense they lock it
Oct 26 08:57:48 <BruteSource> thats because no one can get there hands on it to havk without a 2 year contract or alota money
Oct 26 08:58:05 <swetland> romain: well, some of that is a carrier tradition/paranoia thing. I still think we'll eventually get to a point where allowing end-users to install alternative firmware isn't a big deal
Oct 26 08:58:11 <romainguy> doesn't T-Mobile offer the unlock code after 90 days or something?
Oct 26 08:58:19 <anno^da_> swetland: Great. It would be nice if this could get reality.
Oct 26 08:58:40 <swetland> romain: for the radio. there are actually two issues there -- network personalization (network locking), and allowing unsigned system installation
Oct 26 08:58:45 <DarkriftX> i thought android was supposed to be unlockable without a code
Oct 26 08:58:47 <romainguy> swetland: I agree, but I also understand why they'd lock it so that you don't just get $200 off the device and use another carrier's plan
Oct 26 08:58:51 <anno^da_> romainguy: I would bet 2 weeks after the android market launch we will have an unlock app.
Oct 26 08:59:05 <romainguy> anno^da_: we'll see
Oct 26 08:59:15 <DarkriftX> i wonder if that would be allowed in the market lol
Oct 26 08:59:27 <anno^da_> romainguy: Why should I take the 200$ option + 2 year contract and use another carrier ?
Oct 26 08:59:28 <BruteSource> swetland fixed suspend but now we get power wakeup errors?
Oct 26 08:59:33 <DarkriftX> if not, i have a great place to host it lol
Oct 26 09:00:00 <anno^da_> Well thats the point it can be hosted everywhere and they cant avoid that.
Oct 26 09:00:13 <DarkriftX> anno^da_, $200 phone, 2 year contract, sell the phone and use a junk tmob phone on the contract
Oct 26 09:00:16 <swetland> bs: not sure what that means -- specific error message? kernel or userspace?
Oct 26 09:00:19 <DarkriftX> thats what most ppl do
Oct 26 09:00:21 <anno^da_> It is paranoia nothing more, like swetland mentioned.
Oct 26 09:00:42 <DarkriftX> they are going to resign contract anyways, so they get a good deal on a new phone and ebay it
Oct 26 09:00:47 <BruteSource> penguinz .....
Oct 26 09:00:59 <swetland> anno: I think we got a good start on open, with the wide open app dev, debug, and install situation on g1, but I hope that things will get *more* open in the future
Oct 26 09:01:02 <penguinz> swetland: during init there are a bunch of android_power : wakeup (0->) with UTC datestamps
Oct 26 09:01:41 <anno^da_> swetland: Yeah I hope so too. We talked about that month ago. Having open hardware would be the best thing. (like the Neos)
Oct 26 09:02:11 <swetland> anno: I think we'll get there. the industry is changing in some big ways, but telcos move slowly and remain conservative
Oct 26 09:02:43 <languish> conservative, what a nice term for them
Oct 26 09:02:46 <anno^da_> They will wake up when it is too late ;)
Oct 26 09:03:06 <swetland> penguinz: not sure on that one. probably worth looking at the alarm/power stuff kernel side.  I'll try to encourage the guy who works on that to read the android-kernel list.  he's definitely not the irc'ing sort
Oct 26 09:03:18 <anno^da_> Having the Neo + Android I dont care about the carrier anymore. Just using their data plan and thats it. They got an ISP then.
Oct 26 09:03:51 <swetland> anno: do folks have android booting on the freerunner?  ben leslie seemed to be making good progress on the v4t fixes last week
Oct 26 09:04:37 <anno^da_> Oh havent looked in the mailing list yesterday so I cant tell you that right now. But I think that they will have it booting in the next week(s)
Oct 26 09:04:57 <swetland> yeah, I'd be surprised if it took more than a week or two if people are seriously working on it
Oct 26 09:05:16 * waldo_ is back (gone 03:00:24)
Oct 26 09:05:25 <anno^da_> Thats true. But well they have their jobs and other things to do as well. :-)
Oct 26 09:05:30 <swetland> don't we all
Oct 26 09:05:37 <anno^da_> :-)
Oct 26 09:05:45 <DarkriftX> 5 members away from hitting 300 registered users
Oct 26 09:05:57 <swetland> I was totally going to hack on n800 stuff this weekend, but have mostly been slacking and decompressing after the insanity of g1 launch and open source launch
Oct 26 09:06:25 <swetland> friend of mine pointed out there are finally open drivers for the wifi chip in those critters which has me much more enthused about them
Oct 26 09:07:07 <anno^da_> http://vimeo.com/1963574  <- Just looking at this video now. I have to go skiing next month. :-)
Oct 26 09:07:19 <languish> swetland, 2am irc = slacking & decompressing.. lol
Oct 26 09:07:29 <anno^da_> How is it working on the N800(810) at the moment ?
Oct 26 09:07:33 <languish> assuming you're left coast
Oct 26 09:07:35 <swetland> languish: I woke up at 3pm today
Oct 26 09:07:41 <languish> heh
Oct 26 09:07:50 <swetland> schedule is completely hosed at the moment
Oct 26 09:08:07 <languish> yeah, i haven't known what a schedule feels like in ages
Oct 26 09:08:11 <swetland> anno: I had our stuff booting on it last christmas with tiny changes
Oct 26 09:08:24 <romainguy> swetland: when isn't it?
Oct 26 09:08:38 <dvyjones> When a 1.8 MB file takes 30 minutes to download you know you have a sluggish net connection :P
Oct 26 09:08:39 <swetland> romain: hey there, I've had some weeks where I routinely show up at work by 10am
Oct 26 09:09:10 <swetland> anno: but the binary wifi driver meant a bunch of backporting to 2.6.19 or 21 or thereabouts and we started depending on .25 features and I shelved it
Oct 26 09:09:33 <romainguy> swetland: I was talking in general, not your schedule in particular :))
Oct 26 09:09:34 <swetland> sounds like a couple people are working on it in the wild and quite possibly they'll have everything going before I get time to play with it if I'm slow
Oct 26 09:09:38 <romainguy> or maybe I talk too much with Mathias
Oct 26 09:09:52 <anno^da_> swetland: great thx for the informations.
Oct 26 09:09:55 <swetland> Mathias and Arve are very consistant really
Oct 26 09:10:19 <romainguy> :)
Oct 26 09:13:21 <swetland> http://www.frotz.net/misc/n800/
Oct 26 09:13:38 <swetland> guess it was last thanksgiving I got all that going. wow that ui is ancient
Oct 26 09:13:42 <romainguy> aaah good old M3
Oct 26 09:13:47 <anno^da_> :-)
Oct 26 09:14:55 <swetland> those were the days! or something
Oct 26 09:15:09 <romainguy> that was before Teh Crunch
Oct 26 09:15:22 <romainguy> when we had time to have a life & stuff
Oct 26 09:16:01 <swetland> they never sent you to taiwan for several weeks to debug power collapse ^^
Oct 26 09:16:26 <romainguy> yeah I was probably busy rewriting the entire framework for the new UI :)
Oct 26 09:16:43 <swetland> excuses
Oct 26 09:16:48 <romainguy> lol
Oct 26 09:17:19 <swetland> love the food. could stand to skip the weather in the summer.
Oct 26 09:17:41 <romainguy> hehe
Oct 26 09:18:05 <romainguy> China's August weather killed my camera and my portable hard drive
Oct 26 09:18:32 <swetland> ugh
Oct 26 09:18:45 <Adamant> romainguy: hot and humid?
Oct 26 09:18:50 <romainguy> yep
Oct 26 09:18:51 <Adamant> with no AC?
Oct 26 09:18:54 <romainguy> yep
Oct 26 09:19:00 <Adamant> yeah, that'll do it
Oct 26 09:19:16 <Adamant> I live in the US Southeast, same shit. luckily we do have AC.
Oct 26 09:19:23 <romainguy> :)
Oct 26 09:19:32 <Adamant> otherwise I would probably spend a lot more on electronics
Oct 26 09:20:03 <romainguy> that said I killed a camera lens in a hot and dry environment
Oct 26 09:20:17 <romainguy> ok... I got caught in a sand storm, that didn't help :))
Oct 26 09:20:19 <swetland> I grew up near Chicago. summer is pretty miserably hot and humid. winter is miserably cold and windy. I'm weirded out by the lack of weather in the bay area, but I can cope with never shovelling the driveway again
Oct 26 09:20:49 <Adamant> swetland: I agree. the Bay Area freaks me out weatherwise. when you look forward to rain, something's wrong.
Oct 26 09:21:02 <romainguy> Adamant: yes, I so miss the rain
Oct 26 09:21:12 <swetland> even when it rains it isn't *real* rain
Oct 26 09:21:20 <Adamant> right, it's a light drizzle.
Oct 26 09:21:22 <swetland> I'd like some quality thunderstorms every now and again
Oct 26 09:21:33 <swetland> the sorta step outside, soaked to the skin in a minute kind
Oct 26 09:21:38 <Adamant> indeed
Oct 26 09:22:02 <ferjon_> Hello, I would like to ask what action to expect for listening time change in android?
Oct 26 09:22:35 <ferjon_> Like When the time change, I would like my intent receiver to be aware of this action...
Oct 26 09:22:42 <Adamant> hurricanes are also easier to deal with than earthquakes, but neither ATL, ATX, or RTP has the same level of jobs as the Bay
Oct 26 09:22:55 <romainguy> hmm look at the code of AnalogClock
Oct 26 09:23:14 <ferjon_> where can I find the source code of AnalogClock?
Oct 26 09:23:26 <romainguy> http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=core/java/android/widget/AnalogClock.java;h=808104e894aa3330682990e4c01dd0070e05272d;hb=HEAD
Oct 26 09:23:27 <swetland> romain: what time is that talk you're giving tomorrow (assuming sop did convince you to show up)
Oct 26 09:23:49 <romainguy> swetland: 3pm
Oct 26 09:24:05 <swetland> oh that's sane.  I'll try to turn up to watch the fun
Oct 26 09:24:12 <romainguy> :)
Oct 26 09:24:46 <swetland> I got booed by somebody who didn't like to hear that we didn't have a full native development solution in 1.0 today ^^
Oct 26 09:24:55 <romainguy> erf
Oct 26 09:25:00 <swetland> no no wait, it wasn't that
Oct 26 09:25:11 <swetland> the guy who booed me was upset there wasn't a way to install code on the dsp
Oct 26 09:25:21 <romainguy> ...
Oct 26 09:25:27 <romainguy> too bad for him :)
Oct 26 09:25:32 <swetland> it was a tough crowd!
Oct 26 09:25:42 <romainguy> I kinda expected it
Oct 26 09:25:50 <swetland> (actually everyone was pretty nice and seemed enthusiastic)
Oct 26 09:26:32 <ferjon_> By the way, is it possible to change android home theme programmatically?
Oct 26 09:26:33 <romainguy> I'll throw them bits of Java and Eclipse and watch them gag
Oct 26 09:26:44 <romainguy> ferjon_: define "theme"
Oct 26 09:27:35 <jasta> lol
Oct 26 09:27:36 <ferjon_> environment theme of Android
Oct 26 09:27:56 <jasta> as the night got later and later, my ambitions at a proper patch completely vanished
Oct 26 09:27:59 <romainguy> ferjon_: then no :)
Oct 26 09:28:27 <jasta> and now i am left with an Email app that supports IMAP IDLE, however no longer supports POP3 or non-idle IMAP servers ;)
Oct 26 09:28:36 <jasta> i have a lot of cleanup to do tomorrow hehe
Oct 26 09:28:40 <ferjon_> How about just changing the icons of your installed application in the menu list
Oct 26 09:28:47 <romainguy> ferjon_: nope
Oct 26 09:28:56 <ferjon_> ok, thanks
Oct 26 09:29:15 <swetland> jasta: fiddling details
Oct 26 09:29:24 <swetland> does it boot? ship it.
Oct 26 09:29:30 <jasta> lol
Oct 26 09:29:38 <jasta> the abstractions in the Email app seem really elegant at first
Oct 26 09:29:46 <romainguy> swetland: btw, do you have a few MB of spare RAM to give me? :))
Oct 26 09:29:50 <jasta> but as you dig into them they are shackling.  they can't remain :\
Oct 26 09:30:17 <swetland> romain: jham wants to get sooner running again. can you live with 43MB less?
Oct 26 09:30:20 <jasta> the whole model of everything happening on one command queue thread is terrible.
Oct 26 09:30:27 <romainguy> swetland: actually I'd be happy to
Oct 26 09:33:54 <jasta> lol, i just realized why these method names all looked so weird tonight
Oct 26 09:34:12 <jasta> it's because synchronous is spelling with an f'ing h.  all over the email app it's spelled like "syncronous"
Oct 26 09:44:28 * romainguy pokes jasta 
Oct 26 09:44:51 <dvyjones> Copying linwizard over to my HTC now :D
Oct 26 09:45:09 * dvyjones gave up linux and stole his mother's laptop :P
Oct 26 09:45:16 <dvyjones> S/stole/borrowed/
Oct 26 09:45:40 <dvyjones> Should I disconnect USB before running linwizard/haret?
Oct 26 09:46:44 <dvyjones> I see green text and tux :D
Oct 26 09:48:01 <dvyjones> BruteSource: Any idea what to do now? I see "wizard login: _"
Oct 26 10:00:33 <dvyjones> Or anyone else (running linwizard)
Oct 26 10:07:09 <dvyjones> Suddenly the channel died :(
Oct 26 10:08:39 <dvyjones> Anyone here?
Oct 26 10:11:30 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 26 10:11:36 <dvyjones> Lol what?
Oct 26 10:11:37 <DarkriftX> happens about this time
Oct 26 10:11:53 <dvyjones> Everyone in the same timezone and going to work?
Oct 26 10:11:57 <dvyjones> or bed
Oct 26 10:12:24 <DarkriftX> well, since the g1's are only available in the us, id say 80% of the ppl in here are prob in the us
Oct 26 10:12:29 <DarkriftX> so yeah :(
Oct 26 10:12:53 <dvyjones> US Pacific: 03:12 according to FireFox :P
Oct 26 10:13:04 <dvyjones> Anyone else that can help me?
Oct 26 10:13:49 <DarkriftX> good luck and goodnight
Oct 26 10:14:13 <dvyjones> G'Night DarkriftX
Oct 26 10:31:16 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 26 10:40:26 <dvyjones> Hej nebi
Oct 26 10:50:35 <anno^da_> swetland: anno: we're looking into options for doing direct sale of unlocked developer hardware. nothing to announce yet.  <- Could you mention some time frame in this case or is it totally open?
Oct 26 10:59:46 <abstortedminds> im a java developer, how difficult would it be to learn how to write for the android platform
Oct 26 10:59:58 <abstortedminds> and where do I go to learn more about how to do this
Oct 26 11:04:36 <jasta> abstortedminds: just download the SDK and tinker.
Oct 26 11:04:47 <abstortedminds> doing it now
Oct 26 11:11:49 <keny> Could someone please clarify to me if the components in the application framework ( http://code.google.com/android/images/system-architecture.jpg ) are also replaceable ?
Oct 26 11:12:22 <keny> assuming you have a (presumably) locked-down HTC phone
Oct 26 11:12:31 <jasta> keny: on a locked down phone?  no, not at all.
Oct 26 11:12:51 <jasta> in the source tree, of course, to whatever degree of effort as you could imagine would be required for such a task.
Oct 26 11:12:52 <keny> ok, so just the applications
Oct 26 11:13:09 <jasta> applications can't even be replaced on the G1.  anything part of the system image is there to stay.
Oct 26 11:13:42 <keny> what? you can't replace the browser, phone or contacts application with your own? :|
Oct 26 11:13:58 <keny> darn
Oct 26 11:15:52 <dvyjones> Any "guides" for patching linux kernel to a new .platform?
Oct 26 11:22:21 <jasta> keny: not unless you can figure out a way to reflash the device
Oct 26 11:22:37 <keny> jasta, yes, that would be quite interesting.
Oct 26 11:25:32 <jasta> keny: you really need to separate the G1 from Android.  they aren't the same thing.
Oct 26 11:25:40 <keny> yeah, i know
Oct 26 11:25:55 <jasta> the G1 is a pretty traditional handset operated by a carrier under the traditional model in most parts of the world.
Oct 26 11:26:14 <jasta> as a device, it is not any more open than others on the market.
Oct 26 11:26:41 <keny> i just assumed they permitted replacing some components on the upper levels of the architecture, but i guess it doesn't live up to my expectations :(
Oct 26 11:28:18 <jasta> well, android technically does.  it's just that those apps are packaged in a way that is special and hardcoded.
Oct 26 11:28:36 <jasta> it is still a device issue, not a platform issue.
Oct 26 11:29:04 <jasta> Android itself regards no app as especially important.  To call the browser, for instance, it just fires intents to handle browsing tasks.  Any app that implements those could suffice.
Oct 26 11:29:14 <jasta> it just so happens that on the G1, the Browser is the only app that's going to do that.
Oct 26 11:29:42 <jasta> had you access to more open hardware, such as the Freerunner, you could probably get away with much greater flexibility quite easily
Oct 26 11:30:10 <jasta> likewise, if someone figures out how to reflash the G1, then it should be possible to do this with that device as wel
Oct 26 11:30:38 <jasta> it's just that T-Mobile and HTC are unlikely to help anyone figure out how to do this, unlike the OpenMoko guys
Oct 26 11:30:57 <dvyjones> Android can run on OpenMoko, right? :P
Oct 26 11:31:08 <jasta> that depends on how you mean
Oct 26 11:31:45 <jasta> For example, Android has no soft keyboard.  So loading it onto a purely touch screen device would not be especially usable without first adding such a feature.
Oct 26 11:32:36 <neerhaj> to use a lib in /system/lib/ , i have to use System.loadLibrary(), right ?
Oct 26 11:32:39 <dvyjones> Then I'm unlucky...
Oct 26 11:32:53 <jasta> Android is by no means a fully generalized platform supporting a wide range of hardware options yet.  Thus far it works on 1 very particular device quite well, with many otehrs to follow surely.
Oct 26 11:33:14 <jasta> neerhaj: Erm, what are you trying to do?
Oct 26 11:33:49 <dvyjones> The HTC Pharos doesn't have a keyboard, only some buttons on the front...
Oct 26 11:33:51 <neerhaj> read a lib. i want to know if System.loadlib() is the correct method
Oct 26 11:34:09 <neerhaj> or if there is some other android specific method
Oct 26 11:34:09 <jasta> dvyjones: Do realize that Android is a relatively immature project right now.  It _just_ hit its 1.0 release and has only 1 device running it.
Oct 26 11:34:42 <jasta> neerhaj: It is, yes, however there are a lot of caveats you must understand.
Oct 26 11:35:30 <neerhaj> lol, i keep getting Unsatisfied exception , library not found, though i can see it in DDMS.
Oct 26 11:39:31 <neerhaj> Trying to load lib /system/lib/libsurfaceflinger.so ,   Shared lib '/system/lib/libsurfaceflinger.so' already loaded in same CL 0x0" .
Oct 26 11:39:33 <neerhaj> i get this in log while emulator startup. Could this be causing error ?
Oct 26 11:39:51 <parmaster> we're all in a bit banging frenzy.. something's sure to give way
Oct 26 11:52:19 <neerhaj> any one knows in which branch of the android source tree is FaceDetector ? cant seem to find it.
Oct 26 11:56:48 <Wander_w> ./frameworks/base/media/java/android/media/FaceDetector.java
Oct 26 11:57:08 <Wander_w> there's also a JNI component
Oct 26 11:57:17 <Wander_w> ./external/neven/FaceDetector_jni.cpp
Oct 26 11:57:39 <neerhaj> thanks:)
Oct 26 12:12:45 <tweakt> anyone familiar with the Wifi API?
Oct 26 12:26:38 <dvyjones> Am I out of luck if my device doesn't have a hard keyboard?
Oct 26 12:27:13 <Dialekt> .
Oct 26 12:31:47 <thoraxe> dvyjones: what?
Oct 26 12:35:19 <dvyjones> I want to get android on my device (working on kernel port), but I think I've read/heard that android doesn't have a soft keyboard. My device doesn't have a keyboard, only touchscreen and some navigational buttons...
Oct 26 12:37:08 <dvyjones> So it would be a bit hard to send messages, browse the web, search google, and other things that requires a keyboard.
Oct 26 12:41:28 <dvyjones> Hi borism
Oct 26 12:41:29 <swetland> yup
Oct 26 12:41:32 <swetland> http://source.android.com/roadmap
Oct 26 12:41:39 <dvyjones> swetland: Saw it :P
Oct 26 12:41:46 <swetland> support for soft keyboard, input method stuff in the works
Oct 26 12:41:50 <swetland> but not here yet
Oct 26 12:41:53 <dvyjones> Soft keyboard probably coming in Q1 2009
Oct 26 12:42:02 * dvyjones can't wait
Oct 26 12:42:11 <swetland> yeah, the framework guys are working on it
Oct 26 12:42:58 <swetland> I'm more interested in various other input method integration (japanese, chinese, etc) and am really curious to see if something graffiti-like would work well on capacitive displays w/out a stylus
Oct 26 12:44:00 <dvyjones> Handwriting recognition?
Oct 26 12:44:39 <swetland> maybe its time has finally come. not holding my breath though ^^
Oct 26 12:45:49 <dvyjones> Aah. Graffiti as in the one used on palm and pocketpc, not graffiti as in the art form :P
Oct 26 12:47:58 <swetland> yah
Oct 26 12:48:45 <snadge> i want my g1
Oct 26 12:49:32 <thoraxe> dvyjones: OHHHHHHHHHHh. gotcha.
Oct 26 12:49:46 <thoraxe> dvyjones: afaik you need a hard keyboard.  id on't think there's any t9 type functioanlity
Oct 26 12:50:06 <dvyjones> thoraxe: What does T9 have to do with this?
Oct 26 12:50:07 <thoraxe> swetland: i would love to see a port of linux IME to android so I can enter japa
Oct 26 12:50:27 <thoraxe> dvyjones: oh sorry, you have ts only, my bad
Oct 26 12:50:43 <thoraxe> i read your statement incorrectly
Oct 26 12:50:49 * thoraxe still waking up
Oct 26 12:51:02 * dvyjones wants G1 to Norway, but if that happens as fast as the iPhone came to Norway (ie. about a year), dvyjones' port of tha pharos linux would be done, and soft keyboard would probably be a part of android, so he will use his pharos :D
Oct 26 12:51:24 <thoraxe> dvyjones: g1 is made by htc.  i bet there will be unlocked versions in the next few months
Oct 26 12:53:45 <snadge> im hoping to buy one when im in the UK
Oct 26 12:54:08 <snadge> bring it back to australia.. then see what happens ;)
Oct 26 12:54:43 <snadge> it'll probably have a stupid british keyboard though with a pound symbol
Oct 26 12:55:15 <thoraxe> snadge: ha
Oct 26 12:56:00 <snadge> so i might wait until a few weeks later when im in the USA
Oct 26 12:56:07 <snadge> im just not sure i can wait that long :P
Oct 26 12:57:27 <Adamant> snadge: Aussies don't get their own KB?
Oct 26 12:58:40 <snadge> we use US keyboards
Oct 26 12:58:58 <snadge> UK ones are very similar.. from memory the pound and the quote has moved.. which makes it slightly irritating
Oct 26 13:01:20 <Adamant> snadge: makes sense, US and AU currency is both dollars
Oct 26 13:02:00 <snadge> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#UK_and_Ireland
Oct 26 13:02:08 <snadge> actually good old wikipedia explains the difference there
Oct 26 13:02:21 <snadge> quite a few things are in different spots and theres an extra key
Oct 26 13:02:38 <snadge> how irritating
Oct 26 13:06:49 <snadge> actually that page frightens me.. AZERTY ? QWERTZ .. funny accent characters !? *head explodes*
Oct 26 13:08:03 <Adamant> yes
Oct 26 13:08:36 <Adamant> I bet it was fun doing the keyboard support once OS's started internationalizing
Oct 26 13:13:31 <thoraxe> have you guys seen japanese keyboards?
Oct 26 13:20:40 <thoraxe> http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol9/issue1/Japanese_Keyboard.gif
Oct 26 13:21:13 <Adamant> wild
Oct 26 13:21:40 <Adamant> Koreans have it easy, their language uses an alphabet now
Oct 26 13:24:00 <thoraxe> hahahaha "an alphabet"
Oct 26 13:25:10 <Adamant> ?
Oct 26 13:25:28 <Adamant> Hangul has their own alphabet or whatever you want to call it
Oct 26 13:25:42 <Adamant> blah, Korean Hangul has
Oct 26 13:27:01 <thoraxe> http://www.daskeyboard.com/images/front-view-ult-794x395.png
Oct 26 13:27:03 <thoraxe> problem solved.
Oct 26 13:28:26 <Adamant> yes, it's amazing that a company can sell not putting keys on the KB as a "feature"
Oct 26 13:28:40 <Adamant> saves money AND adds "value"
Oct 26 13:42:54 <oinkboink> in eclipse i have to create for every applitcation(small ones, one class) a new project?
Oct 26 13:43:19 <davidw> qwertz, azerty, etc... are the spawn of satan
Oct 26 14:03:58 <tweakt> oinkboink, yes thats common practice
Oct 26 14:04:27 <tweakt> very few apps are one class
Oct 26 14:04:49 <tweakt> There's also the manifest, resources, etc that go along with it
Oct 26 14:07:46 <flaushy> hi, does anyone know, wether it is possible to get android phones outside of us?
Oct 26 14:16:51 <plusminus_> flaushy: ebay ? (You can at least get them, but I'm not 100% sure if they'll work)
Oct 26 14:20:42 <Disconnect> they won't work outside tmob
Oct 26 14:21:04 <Disconnect> or at least, so far nobody has reported getting tmob to unlock it. although i might try tomorrow for S&G.
Oct 26 14:21:12 <Disconnect> bbl tho, houseguests
Oct 26 14:24:34 <neerhaj> http://www.modmygphone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2731
Oct 26 14:26:14 <vandenoever> is there an android virtual machine for ubuntu somewhere?
Oct 26 14:27:05 <CompBrain> besides the emulator?
Oct 26 14:27:48 <vandenoever> CompBrain: i dont know the emulator, is there a deb repo from which i can install it?
Oct 26 14:28:32 <CompBrain> No, you get follow the get started page at http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html
Oct 26 14:35:59 <mpardo> how can if check to see if a service is running that has been started with Context.startService()?
Oct 26 14:44:58 <Ramblurr>  hm i wonder if regex would be faster at parsing xml than a dom parser
Oct 26 14:46:19 <jbq_> Not possible. XML can't be represented as a regex.
Oct 26 14:47:02 <jbq_> a regex can't match end-tags with start-tags.
Oct 26 14:47:27 <Ramblurr> hm you're right
Oct 26 14:52:03 <fcrick> yay i got "Hello, Android" to run on my actual phone from Eclipse :)
Oct 26 14:53:16 <tweakt> How can I apply styles to a list element, in my ListActivity... I'm using a custom adapter. For instance... if one of my fields is "idle" I want the text in that row to be greyed out
Oct 26 14:53:38 <tweakt> fcrick, congratz!
Oct 26 14:55:12 <fcrick> gonna give the notepad tutorial a try here
Oct 26 14:55:52 <tweakt> should I override setViewText() in SimpleAdapter?
Oct 26 14:58:08 <tweakt> this is like the case of a TODO list where you can cross off items I suppose
Oct 26 15:03:48 <vandenoever> what's the easiest way for a european to get a g1?
Oct 26 15:05:02 <fcrick> have a friend in the u.s. mail you theirs
Oct 26 15:05:19 <vandenoever> fcrick: is it possible to buy it simlock free?
Oct 26 15:05:35 <fcrick> i think you can ask them to unlock it 90 days after purchase
Oct 26 15:05:38 <fcrick> i read that somewhere
Oct 26 15:05:50 <fcrick> but, no
Oct 26 15:05:51 <vandenoever> fcrick: but you cannot buy it without a plan?
Oct 26 15:05:58 <fcrick> correct
Oct 26 15:06:15 <vandenoever> ok, i'll stick with my n810 + ancient then ...
Oct 26 15:06:31 <vandenoever> s/ancient/ancient phone
Oct 26 15:06:33 <fcrick> t-mobile is trying to use this to get new customers a year from now it'll be different with a lot more android phones around
Oct 26 15:06:55 <vandenoever> fcrick: yeah, but that is one year from now ...
Oct 26 15:07:15 <fcrick> i only bought one cause i'm finally biting the bullet and getting a non-pos phone
Oct 26 15:07:23 <fcrick> never eve had a camera before :)
Oct 26 15:07:28 <fcrick> s/eve/even
Oct 26 15:07:29 <vandenoever> pos? proprietary os?
Oct 26 15:07:34 <fcrick> piece of shit
Oct 26 15:07:41 <fcrick> lol
Oct 26 15:07:46 <vandenoever> ah, can you replace the kernel on it?
Oct 26 15:08:00 <fcrick> i'm not sure if anyone knows i'd love to know
Oct 26 15:08:12 <fcrick> i know that a lot of the internals are open source
Oct 26 15:08:23 <fcrick> its unclear to what degree you can mess with that
Oct 26 15:08:36 <vandenoever> i like the fact that it's open, but without being able to actually install a different kernel it means nothing
Oct 26 15:09:00 <fcrick> yeah i'm assuming they're kind of getting to that
Oct 26 15:09:23 <fcrick> seems like google would want to push that sort of heavy customization
Oct 26 15:09:53 <vandenoever> fcrick: even if i do s/google/localhost/ on the source? ;-)
Oct 26 15:10:33 <fcrick> i don't follow
Oct 26 15:10:50 <fcrick> i mean, their thing is they let you do what doesn't make sense as a short term thing
Oct 26 15:10:50 <vandenoever> i'd really need a heavy firewall on a web-enabled phone, so i know what servers are being accessed by the phone
Oct 26 15:11:06 <fcrick> like, you can use gmail as your e-mail server and never actually use the website at all
Oct 26 15:11:16 <fcrick> they provide every way to avoid it imaginable
Oct 26 15:11:21 <vandenoever> fcrick: but you're still tied to google ...
Oct 26 15:11:33 <fcrick> well, you can just use it to send mail
Oct 26 15:11:42 <fcrick> like if all you need is an smtp server
Oct 26 15:11:48 <fcrick> and not even have your mail go to them
Oct 26 15:11:57 <fcrick> its kind of bizarre really
Oct 26 15:12:20 <vandenoever> sounds ok
Oct 26 15:13:18 <fcrick> have you tried searching in the google groups?
Oct 26 15:13:33 <fcrick> i'm sure you're not the only one trying to muck with their g1 internals
Oct 26 15:14:45 <fcrick> i'm happy with a phone that in less than an hour i managed to get software I wrote running on the hardware...pretty neat i think and i don't even need visual studio...
Oct 26 15:26:23 <VickiWong> anyone know of any news for virtual keyboardness?
Oct 26 15:26:37 <Dougie187> VickiWong: its not going to happen any time soon...
Oct 26 15:26:47 <bderrly> it's on the roadmap though, right?
Oct 26 15:26:48 <VickiWong> Dougie187: damn :(
Oct 26 15:27:00 <Dougie187> the roadman says it will be done sometime withing the first quarter of next year
Oct 26 15:27:17 <bderrly> that's not that far away
Oct 26 15:27:41 <VickiWong> so much for a usable 770 port this year
Oct 26 15:27:45 <flaushy> Disconnect: thx. But for some reasons I dont think ebay is a good source. I will try it tho :)
Oct 26 15:29:38 <VickiWong> wow G1 is going for around 400$ unlocked on ebay
Oct 26 15:30:06 <flaushy> :(
Oct 26 15:30:13 <flaushy> too much for me as student :/
Oct 26 15:30:32 <VickiWong> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-T-Mobile-G1-Phone-Gmail-No-Contract-Free-ship_W0QQitemZ270291670833QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270291670833&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
Oct 26 15:30:47 <VickiWong> someone is selling a g1 email address, 15 mids and it's at 300$, someones not going to be happy
Oct 26 15:30:52 <jelg> hello
Oct 26 15:31:02 <jelg> getting build error when trying make all
Oct 26 15:31:44 <jelg> I am using jdk6 - would that be a problem?
Oct 26 15:31:45 <mpardo> hey does anyone know how to simulate a blocked number with the emulator?
Oct 26 15:31:55 <mpardo> ie: *67 800 555 6666
Oct 26 15:32:20 <jelg> "com.sun.tools.javac.code.Symbol$CompletionFailure: class file for sun.util.resources.OpenListResourceBundle not found"
Oct 26 15:33:21 <vandenoever> this emulator is pretty slick!
Oct 26 15:34:52 <jelg> I assume I need to build for target "sdk" or "all" in order to run the emulator?
Oct 26 15:38:04 <jelg> Anyone here actually built the android SDK from the sources on Ubuntu?
Oct 26 15:38:57 <vandenoever> is there a way to rotate the emulator phone?
Oct 26 15:39:40 <vandenoever> ah, found it: 7 and 9 on the keypad
Oct 26 15:42:19 <jelg> jdk6 not compatible with jdk5?
Oct 26 15:43:20 <flaushy> it should be
Oct 26 15:44:00 <jelg> I did install sun-java6-jdk
Oct 26 15:44:43 <jelg> maybe sun.util.resources.OpenListResourceBundle is from somewhere else?
Oct 26 15:45:29 <jelg> The only match I found on google codesearch was refering to jdk7(!)
Oct 26 15:46:16 <fcrick_afk> how do these ppl selling unlocked phones get them?
Oct 26 15:46:39 <tric> jelg: its known not to build with jdk6. you need jdk5.
Oct 26 15:47:51 <jelg> ok thanks!
Oct 26 15:47:52 <vandenoever> can one access the app market from the emulator?
Oct 26 15:48:22 <jelg> I guess I need to uninstall jdk6 first...
Oct 26 15:49:51 <jelg> I guess I was reading to much into the phrase "or later" :-)
Oct 26 15:49:55 <jelg> or later versions
Oct 26 15:53:47 <tric> jelg: yes, jdk5 (update 10 or later), its referring to the update and not major release
Oct 26 15:54:20 <tric> but i really wonder why its so hard to make it compatible with jdk6, or even 7.
Oct 26 15:54:32 <jelg> yes.. I was taking a chance.. never take chances :-)
Oct 26 15:59:53 <keny> wow, just read that canon camera hack RyeBrye published through this channel.... amazing hack!
Oct 26 15:59:56 <jelg> Trying to rebuild..
Oct 26 16:01:00 <jelg> web-page describing the hack?
Oct 26 16:02:48 <jelg> seems to work better.. maybe even without a clean make
Oct 26 16:09:59 <VickiWong> http://www.oblomovka.com/wp/2008/10/23/the-t-mobile-g1-nice-phone-not-so-open/
Oct 26 16:10:48 <tmccrary> awesome
Oct 26 16:10:49 <umdk1d3>     *
Oct 26 16:10:49 <umdk1d3> o
Oct 26 16:10:54 <tmccrary> if its true
Oct 26 16:11:00 <keny> jelg: vickiwong beat me to it
Oct 26 16:11:26 <keny> supposedly it's true, it's just totally unrelated to the g1 - i think
Oct 26 16:11:42 <tweakt> What's the simplest way to check if a service is started?
Oct 26 16:12:59 <tmccrary> lol
Oct 26 16:13:03 <tmccrary> ARM instructions happen to be constant length (as opposed to x86) but that doesn’t matter at all because they are transferred just as a stream of data, say, like an mp3. They only become instructions once they run on a cpu or are being disassembled.
Oct 26 16:13:07 <tmccrary> rofl
Oct 26 16:13:30 <flaushy> aint true anymore
Oct 26 16:13:35 <geist> yeah, thumb2 is 16/32
Oct 26 16:14:55 <fcrick> i wonder how long until someone will have a way of opening a cli shell on the g1
Oct 26 16:15:30 <umdk1d3> fcrick: http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/development.git;a=tree;f=apps/Term;hb=release-1.0
Oct 26 16:16:01 <fcrick> so i just need to build and run that?
Oct 26 16:16:23 <umdk1d3> it uses some internal classes, so im not sure if it compiles vanilla like that
Oct 26 16:16:34 <tmccrary> is that something google made?
Oct 26 16:16:37 <umdk1d3> but its essentially gives you an "adb shell" on the device
Oct 26 16:17:07 <umdk1d3> i think it was built mostly for debugging, but somehow made it into the source tree
Oct 26 16:18:59 <fcrick> if i do adb shell, can i get root access?
Oct 26 16:19:40 <jt436> not on a production device
Oct 26 16:20:00 <fcrick> bleh
Oct 26 16:27:46 <oinkboink> is it possible to play more than one short audio-clips at the same time?
Oct 26 16:36:23 <tweakt> holy freakin crazy property name: BThWlanCoexistParamsallowPaSdToggleDuringBtActivityEnable = 0
Oct 26 16:36:29 <tweakt> haha
Oct 26 16:37:55 <loke> about this "openness"... My Nokia is as open as it gets. Apps can do pretty much anything, and there is no restrictions on software installations. Tethering, Skype, you name it, it's there. Now... People who buy the Nokia (E61 in my case) in the US, do they get a gimped version? (I was asking something similar before, and if I understand correctly, they are not supposed to be gimped, correct?)
Oct 26 16:43:43 <gdsx> oinkboink: it's certainly possible to play multiple non-short audio clips concurrently, so I'd imagine so
Oct 26 16:46:59 <vol> hmm.
Oct 26 16:47:17 <vol> i'm using connectbot
Oct 26 16:47:39 <vol> is there a way to change the font size from size 6,
Oct 26 16:48:27 <vol> also, i'm using irssi, any way to emulate alt or control?
Oct 26 16:49:02 <vol> holy poop ssh tunneling1
Oct 26 16:49:58 <vol> agh, battery dropping radically
Oct 26 16:51:17 <umdk1d3> vol: volume control changes size
Oct 26 16:53:28 <fcrick> bleh my g1 told me i don't have an SD card again
Oct 26 16:53:31 <fcrick> ...
Oct 26 16:54:01 <yakischloba> what do I need to do to get adb working with my phone under linux? It worked fine without doing anything on my Mac
Oct 26 16:54:08 <jelg> sdk and emulator built!
Oct 26 16:55:33 <SanMehat> morning
Oct 26 16:56:09 <fcrick> ooh an op - SanMehat u a googler?
Oct 26 16:56:20 <dvyjones> 'Morning SanMehat
Oct 26 16:57:10 <fcrick> google says yes :)
Oct 26 16:58:28 <mpardo> does anyone know a way to keep a Toast open for longer than LENGTH_LONG?
Oct 26 16:58:52 <umdk1d3> mpardo: you could fire multiple toasts, but there is a reason they only give you two lengths
Oct 26 16:59:06 <mpardo> reason being?
Oct 26 16:59:11 <umdk1d3> if you need to show something to the user longer than a toast LONG, you shouldnt be using a toast
Oct 26 16:59:41 <mpardo> what would you suggest using instead? i dont want to interfere with the background UI
Oct 26 16:59:52 <umdk1d3> well, notifications come to mind
Oct 26 17:00:00 <umdk1d3> it flashes for user, and remains persistant
Oct 26 17:00:34 <fcrick> hmm the androidChat app doesn't seem to want to install
Oct 26 17:00:36 <umdk1d3> what are you trying to communicate to your users?
Oct 26 17:01:42 <VickiWong> seems to be quite a few errors in AndroidChat's code
Oct 26 17:02:14 <fcrick> yeah i'm just grabbing the apk off the site and it doesn't launch
Oct 26 17:02:32 <VickiWong> that'd make sense seen as the code doesnt even compile anymore
Oct 26 17:02:37 <fcrick> heh its the only 'issue' up there
Oct 26 17:02:40 <mpardo> but i need the information to be persistent on the screen until an event occurs
Oct 26 17:03:26 <umdk1d3> mpardo: might consider a ProgressDialog?
Oct 26 17:05:12 <mpardo> ok here's what i need to do... when a call comes in i show some information via toast
Oct 26 17:05:24 <mpardo> but i want to keep showing it untill the call is answered or dropped
Oct 26 17:05:43 <umdk1d3> mpardo: the issue is that toasts cant be shown over the incoming call screen
Oct 26 17:05:53 <mpardo> yes they can
Oct 26 17:05:59 <umdk1d3> orly?
Oct 26 17:06:06 <mpardo> is it against terms?
Oct 26 17:06:14 <umdk1d3> i didnt think it was possible--i had tried awhile back
Oct 26 17:06:16 <mpardo> or are you saying it's not possible
Oct 26 17:06:24 <umdk1d3> have you tested it to work?
Oct 26 17:06:26 <mpardo> i'm doing it right now on emulator and phone
Oct 26 17:06:29 <mpardo> yep
Oct 26 17:06:40 <umdk1d3> so you can show a toast over the incoming (call ringing) screen?
Oct 26 17:07:08 <mpardo> yes... but i put it underneath the android guy and number so you can still see it
Oct 26 17:07:09 <VickiWong> i think thats the wrong use of a toast
Oct 26 17:07:33 <mpardo> yes, but it's the only way i've found to show that information at that particular occurence
Oct 26 17:07:36 <umdk1d3> interesting-- i didnt think you could put toasts over a system window like that
Oct 26 17:07:50 <umdk1d3> im doing something very similar, during an incoming call
Oct 26 17:08:00 <mpardo> using what?
Oct 26 17:08:01 <umdk1d3> but i hacked it to use a repeating notification
Oct 26 17:08:07 <umdk1d3> so it scrolls by on the top
Oct 26 17:08:13 <umdk1d3> i thought i had tried toast
Oct 26 17:08:21 <mpardo> blah that's what i need but for toast
Oct 26 17:08:59 <mpardo> i thought maybe like a timer loop that just shows the same notification, but there would be a fade in between right?
Oct 26 17:09:32 <mpardo> so like... callstate = ringing: show toast
Oct 26 17:09:45 <mpardo> callstate = idle: close toast
Oct 26 17:10:08 <umdk1d3> im curious, what are you showing in the toast?  ;)
Oct 26 17:10:14 <mpardo> lol trade secret
Oct 26 17:10:18 <mpardo> you'll find out monday
Oct 26 17:10:21 <umdk1d3> sigh
Oct 26 17:10:26 <umdk1d3> cuz i might already have written this  :P
Oct 26 17:10:35 <mpardo> ah, maybe
Oct 26 17:10:40 <mpardo> mine has been bought
Oct 26 17:10:43 <mpardo> lol
Oct 26 17:10:48 <umdk1d3> "bought"?
Oct 26 17:10:52 <mpardo> yes
Oct 26 17:11:13 <mpardo> er... sold
Oct 26 17:11:27 <mpardo> to a larger corporation
Oct 26 17:11:30 <mpardo> anyway
Oct 26 17:11:42 <umdk1d3> eh mine is already opensourced  :P
Oct 26 17:11:46 <mpardo> lol
Oct 26 17:11:49 <umdk1d3> and it will be in market monday
Oct 26 17:11:52 <VickiWong> hey it's monday here, spill
Oct 26 17:11:59 <umdk1d3> oh lool
Oct 26 17:12:18 <umdk1d3> its still 11am sunday here
Oct 26 17:12:20 <fcrick> yeah how we gonna know which app if you don't tell us now...
Oct 26 17:13:00 <VickiWong> well mpardo's app is osmehting to do with blocked numbers :D
Oct 26 17:14:52 <dvyjones> Is it possible to copy as working linux kernel for a device into the correct directory on the android source, then build it?
Oct 26 17:15:15 <VickiWong> and umdk1d3 pirates dvd's 0.0
Oct 26 17:17:01 <fcrick> man i think my SD card is broken
Oct 26 17:17:11 <SanMehat> fcrick: why do you say that?
Oct 26 17:17:27 <fcrick> cause its in there but the phone doesn't think so
Oct 26 17:17:33 <fcrick> Total Space: Unavailable
Oct 26 17:17:42 <VickiWong> <fcrick> because it used to be in just one piece
Oct 26 17:17:56 <fcrick> :)
Oct 26 17:17:56 <SanMehat> do you have it plugged into a USB host with USB mass storage enabled?
Oct 26 17:17:58 <VickiWong> could it be a fake card? or did it come with the phone
Oct 26 17:18:11 <fcrick> SanMehat: ahh i think you're on to something
Oct 26 17:18:18 <fcrick> i just unplugged the usb and now its back
Oct 26 17:18:34 <SanMehat> when you plug in your device to USB, do you see a notification pop up with a USB icon?
Oct 26 17:19:01 <SanMehat> fcrick: what is the software release on your device?
Oct 26 17:19:20 <umdk1d3> ooh i dont have this usb notification icon
Oct 26 17:19:22 <fcrick> its RC19
Oct 26 17:19:25 <fcrick> is that what u mean?
Oct 26 17:19:33 <SanMehat> yes.
Oct 26 17:19:40 <fcrick> yeah i don't see any notification
Oct 26 17:19:55 <fcrick> isn't RC28 supposed to be out?
Oct 26 17:19:55 <umdk1d3> ouch me still on RC16  :/
Oct 26 17:19:58 <SanMehat> fcrick: ok, i suppose thats in the upcomming OTA :)
Oct 26 17:20:15 <SanMehat> fcrick: yeah your device jus thasn't received the OTA yet
Oct 26 17:20:22 <fcrick> SanMehat: is there any way to install betas ad stuff?
Oct 26 17:20:34 <fcrick> i'd totally be a willing dogfooder
Oct 26 17:21:08 <SanMehat> fcrick: Sorry man, I'm not sure
Oct 26 17:21:38 <SanMehat> fcrick: but yeah. with that version, UMS kicks in (if enabled) when you plug it into usb.. so the sdcard is not available for the device
Oct 26 17:21:49 <fcrick> i thought that @ meant you were omniscient
Oct 26 17:21:57 <SanMehat> this behavior has been changed in an updated release which you will probably receive via OTA
Oct 26 17:22:06 <SanMehat> fcrick: well i'm being honest :)
Oct 26 17:22:06 <fcrick> OTA stands for?
Oct 26 17:22:10 <SanMehat> Over The Air update
Oct 26 17:23:22 <fcrick> SanMehat: thanks for clearing that up :)
Oct 26 17:23:31 <SanMehat> fcrick: no problem, enjoy :)
Oct 26 17:25:58 <fcrick> man Eclispe sure has come a long way since the last time i used it
Oct 26 17:28:03 <poetic_folly|G5> hey folks, any idea why when trying to install an .apk from my server I am getting the following error:  The content being downloaded is not supported on the phone.
Oct 26 17:28:09 <poetic_folly|G5> I have set up the correct MIME
Oct 26 17:28:36 <umdk1d3> curl -vvv confirms the mime type?
Oct 26 17:29:33 <poetic_folly|G5> sec
Oct 26 17:30:49 <poetic_folly|G5> < Content-Type: application/vnd.google.android.package-archive
Oct 26 17:31:17 <umdk1d3> there might be an extra google in there
Oct 26 17:31:19 <umdk1d3> brb
Oct 26 17:31:53 <umdk1d3> yep it should be  "application/vnd.android.package-archive"
Oct 26 17:32:04 <poetic_folly|G5> ah gotcha
Oct 26 17:32:06 <poetic_folly|G5> thanks. :D
Oct 26 18:02:08 <jcanfield_> Anyone know if there a way to read android market application ratings and comments outside of the G1?
Oct 26 18:03:22 <oinkboink> how to close a xml-tag correctly(booth works), with /> or with ></tag>?
Oct 26 18:03:44 <oinkboink> for main.xml...
Oct 26 18:03:52 <fcrick> oinkboink: both are fine
Oct 26 18:04:21 <fcrick> <nothinginsidetage /> vs. <tagwithcontent>something</tagwithcontent>
Oct 26 18:05:17 <oinkboink> but theres something inside...
Oct 26 18:05:45 <fcrick> if there are children, you have to close with a close tag eg. </end>
Oct 26 18:06:09 <fcrick> if its nothing, or only attributes, you can use a single tag that closes itself <tag attr="value" />
Oct 26 18:06:40 <fcrick> <tag /> is just a shorthand of <tag></tag>
Oct 26 18:06:58 <oinkboink>  ok, thanks
Oct 26 18:07:54 <fcrick> jcanfield_: dunno man i looked i can't find it
Oct 26 18:09:01 <fcrick> jcanfield_: http://www.android.com/market seems to be the site, but i don't see comments
Oct 26 18:09:26 <jcanfield_> fcrick, thanks I have been poking around the site, I figured i was missing something.
Oct 26 18:09:47 <fcrick> yeah that site looks a little ghetto
Oct 26 18:09:58 <jcanfield_> fcrick, seems odd that you can't read about apps outside the phone.
Oct 26 18:10:04 <fcrick> if you click help, the logo is linked to www.google.com
Oct 26 18:10:26 <fcrick> jcanfield_: yeah i'd assume this is temporary
Oct 26 18:11:28 <jcanfield_> I think they can take a few pointer from the maemo folks on this one.  Too bad nokia hasn't adopted android, they really had a good thing going.  Install from browser (deb files)...etc.
Oct 26 18:11:53 <oinkboink> if the application should run on different phones(different screenresolutions),  "AboluteLayout" woudnt be the best layout, right?
Oct 26 18:14:19 <fcrick> oinkboink: i'm not sure, but absolute usually means you are specifying the exact position of things, which wouldn't be what you'd want for various resolutions most of the time
Oct 26 18:15:15 <fcrick> looks like LinearLayout is what you want for most simple things...
Oct 26 18:20:39 <oinkboink> hm, when i add "android:background="somecolour" to a Button tag in main.xml, the button is just a rectangle (no 3d effect)...
Oct 26 18:29:46 <Ramblurr> wow
Oct 26 18:30:36 <Ramblurr> XmlPullParser is loads faster than javax.xml.parsers.DocumentBuilder
Oct 26 18:32:09 <romainguy> Ramblurr: well yes :)
Oct 26 18:32:26 <romainguy> oinkboink: yes, because you set the background to be a single solid color
Oct 26 18:33:16 <masouds> Hi there. Suppose I've checked out the source and built it; How do I see what does it look like (with my potential changes)?
Oct 26 18:33:30 <masouds> I can't find anything on the site about this
Oct 26 18:33:45 <romainguy> masouds: start the emulator
Oct 26 18:33:59 <romainguy> (the emulator was built as part of your custom build)
Oct 26 18:34:08 <masouds> how, exactly?
Oct 26 18:34:15 <DarkriftX> linux or windows?
Oct 26 18:34:15 <romainguy> type emulator
Oct 26 18:34:25 <masouds> Linux
Oct 26 18:34:26 <DarkriftX> in linux, ./emulator -shell works well
Oct 26 18:34:35 <BHSPitLappy> Probably a stupid question, but does Android support touchscreenless devices well?
Oct 26 18:34:44 <romainguy> BHSPitLappy: yes
Oct 26 18:35:08 <BHSPitLappy> I'm guessing the emulator has a mode for this?
Oct 26 18:35:12 <masouds> DarkriftX: on what directory?
Oct 26 18:35:17 <DarkriftX> masouds, if you want an sd card you have to build an image first and use -sdcard <filename> to use it
Oct 26 18:35:31 <romainguy> BHSPitLappy: yes, just don't click on the UI :)
Oct 26 18:35:33 <DarkriftX> masouds, whichever dir you see the executable file emulator in
Oct 26 18:35:38 <DarkriftX> i have the sdk, so its in the tools folder
Oct 26 18:35:42 <DarkriftX> not sure when you build it from source
Oct 26 18:35:42 <masouds> well
Oct 26 18:35:43 <BHSPitLappy> romainguy, ah :)
Oct 26 18:36:10 <romainguy> DarkriftX: when you build from the source, if you . build/envsetup.sh, the emulator is in your PATH
Oct 26 18:36:18 <masouds> oh
Oct 26 18:36:29 <DarkriftX> oh, so just try "emulator -shell"
Oct 26 18:36:29 <umdk1d3> hmm so im creating a permission, and id like the desktop shortcuts to have that permission.  i cant "add" a permission allowed to the desktop apk, but could i somehow check the intent source and see if its coming from a desktop shortcut?
Oct 26 18:36:53 <masouds> So is it somewhere documented in the site?
Oct 26 18:37:07 <romainguy> umdk1d3: the permission should be in the apk of whatever you launch from the shortcut
Oct 26 18:37:40 <umdk1d3> romainguy: im creating a "new" permission tho:  say, ALLOW_OPEN_SSH_SESSION
Oct 26 18:37:45 <romainguy> so?
Oct 26 18:38:06 <umdk1d3> and im going to be enforcing that the caller have that when an intent comes in
Oct 26 18:38:15 <umdk1d3> but, i cant "give" that permission to the desktop, can i?
Oct 26 18:38:23 <romainguy> you don't have to give it to the desktop
Oct 26 18:39:06 <umdk1d3> but im going to launching that intent from the desktop shortcut, and in my program check permissions, which might fail because the desktop doesnt have my special permission
Oct 26 18:39:08 <romainguy> oh wait I see what you're doing
Oct 26 18:39:44 <romainguy> I don't understand why you're doing it this way?
Oct 26 18:39:56 <umdk1d3> wed like people to have single-tap shortcuts to open ssh sessions
Oct 26 18:40:05 <umdk1d3> but not allow other apps on the system to open malicious ssh sessions
Oct 26 18:40:31 <romainguy> then you're only way is to have a user-facing UI with a button to click on
Oct 26 18:41:02 <umdk1d3> to confirm that they really want to continue?
Oct 26 18:41:14 <romainguy> umdk1d3: yes
Oct 26 18:44:56 <umdk1d3> hmm and there doesnt appear to be a way of findign who sent an intent
Oct 26 18:46:02 <vol> ur mom
Oct 26 18:46:29 <umdk1d3> afaik my mother hasnt been sending intents
Oct 26 18:46:32 <waldo__> umdk1d3 I think that was the security problem that kept from allowing rpc on intents or something
Oct 26 18:50:04 <oinkboink> who to place an element with "LinearLayout" at the bottom, "android:layout_gravity="bottom" doesnt works for me
Oct 26 18:50:51 <oinkboink> only left, right, and center works...
Oct 26 18:50:56 <vol> the layout has to take up the whole screen?
Oct 26 18:51:02 <vol> otherwise it's the bottom of what area it has
Oct 26 18:51:02 <oinkboink> yes
Oct 26 18:51:31 <oinkboink> its set on "fill parent"
Oct 26 18:54:46 <oinkboink> fill_vertical also doesnt works, just left, center and right are working fine...
Oct 26 18:55:13 <Ramblurr> which Http lib do you guys use when making simple REST calls?
Oct 26 19:00:03 <oinkboink> btw. how to place more buttons in one line with LinearLayout?
Oct 26 19:02:07 <oinkboink> ...maybe that not possible mit LinearLayout...
Oct 26 19:02:13 <romainguy> oinkboink: who to place an element with "LinearLayout" at the bottom, "android:layout_gravity="bottom" doesnt works for me << this works if the linear layout is horizontal
Oct 26 19:02:29 <romainguy> and you can have more buttons in one line... if the linear layout is horizontal :)
Oct 26 19:02:35 <waldo__> oinkboink http://www.droiddraw.org/
Oct 26 19:03:34 <romainguy> waldo__: there's a visual designer included in the Eclipse plugin
Oct 26 19:04:24 <romainguy> the advantage of the Eclipse designer is that it runs the actual Android code
Oct 26 19:04:30 <romainguy> it doesn't emulate the layouts like DroidDraw does
Oct 26 19:04:52 <romainguy> so it automatically supports all features and the rendering should be very close
Oct 26 19:06:22 <mpardo> can you putextra for a broadcastreciever intent?
Oct 26 19:06:51 <SamSerious_> Question. Does The  mail client not support attachment? I cant do anything with a doc attachment :|
Oct 26 19:07:47 <romainguy> it supports attachments
Oct 26 19:07:49 <romainguy> but not .doc
Oct 26 19:09:23 <oinkboink> ok, so youre much more flexible with RelativeLayout?!
Oct 26 19:09:38 <waldo__> romainguy there is?  is that what those tabs are for?  I really should be more curious.
Oct 26 19:10:08 <waldo__> I saw it but didn't know what it was...  whens' that stupid android book coming out?!
Oct 26 19:10:15 <waldo__> rev3 that is
Oct 26 19:11:34 <waldo__> wow this book has been panned: ANDROID A PROGRAMMERS GUIDE on amazon
Oct 26 19:12:40 <waldo__> reviews of the book:  http://tinyurl.com/6nftx4
Oct 26 19:13:50 <mpardo> is there a way to have an alarm manager execute a method instead of starting an intent?
Oct 26 19:14:14 <mpardo> or execute a method every X seconds
Oct 26 19:16:07 <mpardo> timertask?
Oct 26 19:20:23 <fcrick> so can android apps accept incoming TCP connections?
Oct 26 19:21:59 <languish> fcrick, seeing as how someone set up a webserver for android/G1, I'd say yes...
Oct 26 19:22:20 <fcrick> ahh good
Oct 26 19:24:49 <waldo__> anyone know of a means for putting an "if found/lost" message on the log in screen?  ie, if the phone is lost, someone knows who to call/email?
Oct 26 19:26:02 <fcrick> hmm maybe you just need an app that puts the phone's location somewhere on the web when someone turns it on
Oct 26 19:26:09 <fcrick> then you can just drive over hehe
Oct 26 19:26:14 <ilikestuf> yo wassup
Oct 26 19:26:18 <waldo__> yeah, there's a proram that does that
Oct 26 19:26:26 <fcrick> waldo__: what's it called?
Oct 26 19:26:49 <fcrick> damn i just bought these gummy bear vitamins...they are a little too good
Oct 26 19:26:53 <waldo__> umk13d posted it
Oct 26 19:26:55 <umdk1d3> fcrick: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/pinpoint/
Oct 26 19:27:03 <fcrick> i dunno how i'm supposed to only eat 2 per day
Oct 26 19:27:13 <ilikestuf> Okay, quick question, easy answer
Oct 26 19:27:26 <waldo__> Why does this depress me: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10074298-56.html   windows on olpc
Oct 26 19:27:42 <ilikestuf> Can anyone recommend the best eclipse build for use with the Android SDK?
Oct 26 19:27:54 <umdk1d3> ilikestuf: ive used the java ee
Oct 26 19:27:58 <ilikestuf> or best eclipse package
Oct 26 19:28:15 <ilikestuf> so the standard eclipse for java dev's?
Oct 26 19:28:20 <fcrick> waldo__: maybe if the OLPC crew had done a better job they wouldn't have bothered
Oct 26 19:28:34 <umdk1d3> i think there was some extra steps if you got the "normal" eclipse
Oct 26 19:28:48 <ilikestuf> ahh
Oct 26 19:28:53 <fcrick> waldo__: sugar is extremely sluggish
Oct 26 19:28:55 <umdk1d3> ilikestuf: which is why i piced up the "ee" version
Oct 26 19:29:05 <ilikestuf> gotcha.  Will try that one!
Oct 26 19:29:05 <umdk1d3> it just has more plugins, nothing too different
Oct 26 19:29:14 <ilikestuf> cool
Oct 26 19:30:10 <jcanfield_> waldo__, olpc sold out long ago.
Oct 26 19:30:10 <waldo__> fcrick- i downloaded the new sugar as of like a montha go.. it's MUCH faster
Oct 26 19:30:18 <waldo__> jcanfield they're doing g1g1 again
Oct 26 19:30:50 <fcrick> did u 'sold out' in the other sense?
Oct 26 19:30:53 <waldo__> or do you mean morally sold out
Oct 26 19:31:14 <waldo__> well i have my olpc here... and it's much faster with this new build
Oct 26 19:31:21 <waldo__> they redid sugar too so its much more intuitive
Oct 26 19:31:34 <waldo__> and the stupid frame doesn't pop up every second
Oct 26 19:32:02 <ilikestuf> thanks for your help!
Oct 26 19:33:02 <waldo__> umdk1d3 hey I see support for port forwarding.. does it work?
Oct 26 19:33:31 <waldo__> and can it be "built in" to a server profile?   (either via a pref screen or -l -r in the name?)
Oct 26 19:35:41 <Ramblurr> umdk1d3: you're the connectbot dev?
Oct 26 19:35:54 <waldo__> he is... and there's more on #connectbot ;)
Oct 26 19:37:51 <umdk1d3> waldo__: yep local forwarding is tested to work great, not sure about remote forwarding tho
Oct 26 19:38:05 <umdk1d3> perfect if you need POP over an ssh tunnel
Oct 26 19:38:17 <waldo__> which is exactly why I need it
Oct 26 19:38:27 <waldo__> although I need public keys working too
Oct 26 19:38:34 <umdk1d3> waldo__: were toying with a way to make desktop shortcuts auto-create tunnels
Oct 26 19:38:39 <waldo__> umdk1d3 does it detect if the connection is broken and reconnect?
Oct 26 19:38:50 <waldo__> umdk1d3 that would be awesome!
Oct 26 19:39:04 <waldo__> I was wondering if there was some scripting language for android...    sending intents
Oct 26 19:39:18 <umdk1d3> anycut comes pretty close to that right now
Oct 26 19:39:20 <waldo__> intent one-- set up the connection -- intent 2 - check email  - intent 3 - break connection
Oct 26 19:39:28 <umdk1d3> not scripting like that tho
Oct 26 19:39:37 <fcrick> hmm i think this Pinpoint thing isn't quite working right
Oct 26 19:40:12 <Surye> Anyone know if Jython compiled against Dalvik?
Oct 26 19:40:17 <waldo__> it would be cool to create little scripted workflows through android apps to have it auto-execute a series of steps
Oct 26 19:40:20 <fcrick> whole phone slowed to a hault after getting the message, then i was throw off the network
Oct 26 19:40:32 <waldo__> fcrick did it respond with your location?
Oct 26 19:40:42 <fcrick> not yet
Oct 26 19:40:46 <waldo__> hmm
Oct 26 19:40:56 <fcrick> been like two mins i think it had some kind of catastrophic failure
Oct 26 19:41:09 <waldo__> hah...  well.. looks like you found a bug
Oct 26 19:41:10 <waldo__> :)
Oct 26 19:42:29 <fcrick> i had gps off
Oct 26 19:42:37 <fcrick> maybe it doesn't like it when gps is off
Oct 26 19:42:55 <fcrick> i'll try waiting until the phone is locked on maps then try again
Oct 26 19:44:18 <fcrick> ooh there worked that time
Oct 26 20:02:21 <jasta> romainguy: is there any way to simulate ACTION_BOOT_COMPLETED without actually restarting the emulator?
Oct 26 20:03:52 <jasta> i guess i could develop an intent which my code just treats in the same case and then use AnyCut or something to make a shortcut
Oct 26 20:26:11 * waldo__ is away: auto-away
Oct 26 20:31:02 <meoblast001> G1 commercial just aired
Oct 26 20:31:27 <umdk1d3> the one with people asking questions?
Oct 26 20:32:37 <meoblast001> something about curiousity thats all i know
Oct 26 20:32:43 <meoblast001> and no Shawn of the Dead is back on
Oct 26 20:32:53 <BruteSource> i saw a g1 ad weeks ago
Oct 26 20:33:14 <meoblast001> when does sprint get a G1 equivilant?
Oct 26 20:33:41 <BruteSource> there is no plans for a cdma dream
Oct 26 20:34:06 <BruteSource> im sure thay have there own android device in development
Oct 26 20:34:21 <meoblast001> =)
Oct 26 20:34:27 <languish> sprint's CEO basically said he's not interested in android until it develops further
Oct 26 20:35:08 <BruteSource> ouch
Oct 26 20:35:18 <languish> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/25/dan-hesse-sez-android-not-yet-good-enough-for-sprint-brand/
Oct 26 20:35:19 <BruteSource> sprint never was beeding edge
Oct 26 20:35:31 <BruteSource> there more of a stable kinda company
Oct 26 20:35:32 <languish> sprint has the touch pro
Oct 26 20:35:53 <BruteSource> just build your own for the tp
Oct 26 20:36:10 <BruteSource> im sure cdma radi drivers will be fun though
Oct 26 20:36:16 <BruteSource> radio
Oct 26 20:40:37 <DarkriftX> hopefully sprints sales take a hit from that decision and they notice it
Oct 26 20:42:46 <BruteSource> if android get big they will bandwagon
Oct 26 20:46:59 <DarkriftX> if you have been in a tmo store lately, you will see it is getting big
Oct 26 20:47:19 <DarkriftX> the sales ppl look tired, g1 boxes open on all counters, ppl standing in lines looking over shoulders
Oct 26 20:48:44 <metrix> is there a way to get access to my sqlite database on the G1? I want to add contacts that I have in an sqlite database on my desktop.
Oct 26 20:48:47 <DarkriftX> i was thinking of a way to dress up like the android for Halloween when i take the kids out
Oct 26 20:49:15 <DarkriftX> i doubt there is yet metrix but im sure its possible
Oct 26 20:49:34 <DarkriftX> although it might be easier to find a way to sync them to google then sync to g1
Oct 26 20:50:42 <metrix> hmm.. I was hoping I could look at all the files on the device by plugging the usb in or something.
Oct 26 20:51:01 <BruteSource> not my local tmo store they havent even sold all of there first shipments yet
Oct 26 20:51:29 <DarkriftX> really
Oct 26 20:51:41 <DarkriftX> i was in a small one by my work and i couldnt even walk to the demo
Oct 26 20:51:53 <DarkriftX> it was packed and eveyrone had an open g1 box in front of them waiting for the rep
Oct 26 20:51:57 <BruteSource> ya still have the ones without the ext usb adapter
Oct 26 20:59:18 <flonr_> -,ööüpok
Oct 26 20:59:29 <penguinz> I'm a bit stuck, android init hangs after the logcat output line "I/DEBUG   (   21): debuggerd: Oct 22 2008 17:00:05". Once that happens there are countless calls along the lines of "clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {431, 92905846}) = 0" these are found running strace on init.
Oct 26 21:12:48 <Surye> Is there anyway to have the eclipse plugin export a signed package? (set the key and it can ask for the password)
Oct 26 21:26:15 <DarkriftX> anyone here know how to format an sd card from a g1?
Oct 26 21:26:33 <BruteSource> cant you use sh
Oct 26 21:26:36 <BruteSource> ash
Oct 26 21:27:13 <BruteSource> or has no one been able to get a tty on the g1 yet?
Oct 26 21:27:32 <fcrick> BruteSource: you can from a computer
Oct 26 21:27:38 <fcrick> but not on the phone itself
Oct 26 21:27:54 <fcrick> the sdk allows you to start a shell on the phone connected by usb
Oct 26 21:28:02 <DarkriftX> ok, cool
Oct 26 21:28:18 <fcrick> you can't get root, though :/
Oct 26 21:28:31 <BruteSource> it hasnt been rooted yet?
Oct 26 21:28:37 <DarkriftX> oh, and root would be needed to mkdosfs?
Oct 26 21:28:50 <fcrick> well, not that i know of...prolly not hard for people who know how
Oct 26 21:29:17 <fcrick> well, right now, you can't run much in the shell so far as I know
Oct 26 21:29:26 <BruteSource> thats why im glad ill be using a regular kernel with the android userspace
Oct 26 21:29:41 <DarkriftX> would the emulator shell be a good way to test?
Oct 26 21:29:46 <BruteSource> ill be able to call an xterm
Oct 26 21:29:55 <DarkriftX> or is it too different to be accurate
Oct 26 21:29:56 <BruteSource> and have root
Oct 26 21:30:16 <fcrick> dunno, but i think most existing apps were made on the emulator
Oct 26 21:30:21 <fcrick> so how bad could it be?
Oct 26 21:30:50 <jasta> the emulator is a very good simulation of actual hardware
Oct 26 21:31:14 <jasta> however, you still must appreciate that the real device will go to sleep and will have unstable networking
Oct 26 21:31:38 <DarkriftX> basically a user on my forum is asking how to format an sd on the g1 itself, so im trying to find an answer for him
Oct 26 21:31:45 <DarkriftX> i dont have a g1, so i would test on the emulator
Oct 26 21:32:00 <jasta> that si not a good simulation at all
Oct 26 21:32:14 <DarkriftX> thats what i was asking
Oct 26 21:32:35 <jasta> the SDK does not include a lot of software on the G1 itself
Oct 26 21:32:39 <jasta> including the settings app
Oct 26 21:32:56 <jasta> however, you cannot format the sd card on the g1 itself.  you can mount the g1 by plugging it in and deleting all the files tho
Oct 26 21:33:39 <DarkriftX> erm, no touch on the android :S
Oct 26 21:33:46 <DarkriftX> how would i create a file?
Oct 26 21:35:09 <DarkriftX> damn
Oct 26 21:35:17 <DarkriftX> mmc0 shows up in dmesg, but not in /dev
Oct 26 21:35:24 <BruteSource> im sure there is a way to get root just no one has found it
Oct 26 21:35:52 <DarkriftX> dmesg on emu doesnt seem to give as much info as im used to seeing
Oct 26 21:40:35 <DarkriftX> ok, unmounted, ran mkdosfs but unable to mount
Oct 26 21:40:50 <DarkriftX> seems to need more params but no --help so i dont know what its looking for
Oct 26 21:41:02 <BruteSource> they disabled fat support
Oct 26 21:41:11 <BruteSource> seems
Oct 26 21:41:12 <Surye> Publishing source code with map apikey is not a problem right? Since it's linked to the publishing key?
Oct 26 21:41:33 <umdk1d3> Surye: it seems liek it should be okay, yes
Oct 26 21:41:48 <DarkriftX> lol, reboot from shell seems to lock it up
Oct 26 21:41:49 <umdk1d3> almost like the maps keys that you can see from viewsource
Oct 26 21:41:54 <umdk1d3> useless except on that domain
Oct 26 21:42:10 <umdk1d3> *for normal google maps mashups
Oct 26 21:42:12 <Surye> Yea, okay. Cool
Oct 26 21:42:36 <tmzt> DarkriftX: jasta: if it mounts a storage device, you should be able to partition or at least format on the host
Oct 26 21:42:40 <eldenz> what would be the correct class (widget) to 'misuse' to display Activities in a Gallery-way? i.e. i would like to spin through some sort of cards (that take the whole screen's area up for a single item)
Oct 26 21:43:17 <eldenz> or would an animation be better suited for this
Oct 26 21:43:19 <tmzt> DarkriftX: jasta: depending on whether it exports the whole sd card or just the partition
Oct 26 21:43:19 <DarkriftX> ok, i umounted the sdcard, ran mkdosfs on it and coudlnt remount it, but a reboot remounts it. its empty :)
Oct 26 21:43:20 <umdk1d3> eldenz: you wouldnt be able to do that with muiltiple activitys, but yes with views and a viewflipper
Oct 26 21:43:32 <DarkriftX> so its a partial win i think
Oct 26 21:43:42 <DarkriftX> have to reboot the phone to get it working, but im on the right track
Oct 26 21:43:44 <umdk1d3> eldenz: viewflipper helps with animations and wrapping around
Oct 26 21:44:04 <eldenz> umdk1d3, it's more or less a backaground (the same for all cards) and a text put on top of it
Oct 26 21:44:19 <eldenz> ok will check it out, thanks umdk1d3
Oct 26 21:46:02 <DarkriftX> anyone know about the mount params needed on android?
Oct 26 21:46:31 <DarkriftX> trying to mount /dev/block/mmcblk0 to /sdcard and it seems to want more info then it should
Oct 26 21:48:43 <Surye> Hmm.. is there a dynamic way to pick the key? Can the app tell what key it was signed with?
Oct 26 21:49:02 <DarkriftX> this is crazy, no --h, no man, but none of the standard mount params work and it keeps asking for more
Oct 26 21:49:40 <DarkriftX> w00t, did it
Oct 26 21:49:45 <DarkriftX> seems it doesnt auto detect type :S
Oct 26 21:50:46 <BruteSource> needed -t ?
Oct 26 21:55:25 <DarkriftX> yeah
Oct 26 21:55:43 <DarkriftX> my sd cards are all fat32 and never need -t to mount em
Oct 26 21:55:58 <DarkriftX> anyone with a G1 want to test my method to format for me? works great on the emulator
Oct 26 21:57:28 <umdk1d3> grr i cant find  com.android.internal.R in the source dump
Oct 26 22:00:54 * waldo__ is back (gone 01:34:44)
Oct 26 22:01:23 <DarkriftX> i think i found a flaw in my mounting :S
Oct 26 22:10:47 <BruteSource> well penguinz is the man we have android fully working on excalibur except radio features of course
Oct 26 22:10:53 <DarkriftX> anyone on a g1 able to cat /etc/permissions.xml and tell me what guid is set for install apps? (<assign-permission name="android.permission.INSTALL_PACKAGES" uid="shell" />) is ont eh emu
Oct 26 22:14:59 <satadru>  DarkriftX:     <assign-permission name="android.permission.INSTALL_PACKAGES" uid="shell" />
Oct 26 22:15:04 <satadru> (from the g1)
Oct 26 22:15:38 <BruteSource> uid=shell ?
Oct 26 22:15:46 <BruteSource> shouldnt it be a number?
Oct 26 22:16:04 <satadru> from the g1: uid=2000(shell) gid=2000(shell) groups=1003(graphics),1004(input),1007(log),1011(adb),3003(inet)
Oct 26 22:16:18 <BruteSource> aw
Oct 26 22:16:32 <BruteSource> how to get uid=0?
Oct 26 22:17:56 <Disconnect> can't
Oct 26 22:18:05 <BruteSource> yet
Oct 26 22:18:24 <BruteSource> what if you attatch a gnu debugger?
Oct 26 22:18:30 <Disconnect> can't inside the framework/sdk. different if it gets hacked, but no yet..
Oct 26 22:19:05 <Disconnect> (so yah, if we get vpn it'll be a paid option from tmobile. but seriously, its "open" .........)
Oct 26 22:19:27 <BruteSource> cant attatch a gdb?
Oct 26 22:19:57 <DarkriftX> uid's can be group names also in some places
Oct 26 22:20:24 <DarkriftX> i was hoping that was one of the things that was stopping apk installs from the browser on the g1
Oct 26 22:20:29 <DarkriftX> but guess not :(
Oct 26 22:20:41 <BruteSource> well if it could be done i dont see why it wouldnt have been already
Oct 26 22:21:01 <DarkriftX> it can be done, its missing the security app on the emulator
Oct 26 22:21:04 <BruteSource> google must have done something right
Oct 26 22:21:12 <DarkriftX> im sure if thats installed it would be working
Oct 26 22:21:24 <BruteSource> root?
Oct 26 22:21:26 <DarkriftX> erm, s/security/settings/
Oct 26 22:21:40 <DarkriftX> no, not root, im talking about install permissions from browser
Oct 26 22:21:54 <BruteSource> oh i was talking about root
Oct 26 22:22:12 <DarkriftX> i think that would be easier then it sounds
Oct 26 22:22:30 <BruteSource> rooting g1?
Oct 26 22:22:42 <DarkriftX> find the service that starts the UI and change its guid to root, but im a linux n00b so im sure im wrong
Oct 26 22:23:13 <BruteSource> ya because it would have been done if it was that easy, and would be big news
Oct 26 22:23:36 <Surye> Hmm.. is there a dynamic way to pick the key? Can the app tell what key it was signed with?
Oct 26 22:24:07 <parmaster> is it because they are sandboxing each individual app?
Oct 26 22:24:58 <BHSPitLappy> Is there a channel for general questions, to avoid cluttering up actual development discussion?
Oct 26 22:26:19 <BruteSource> im about to try android finally on my device i cant wait
Oct 26 22:26:33 <spikebike> device?
Oct 26 22:27:12 <DarkriftX> BHSPitLappy, i think this IS the general discussion channel
Oct 26 22:27:22 <DarkriftX> i heard there was a #android-dev or something already
Oct 26 22:27:32 <BHSPitLappy> ah, so there is
Oct 26 22:27:40 <BHSPitLappy> Good :P
Oct 26 22:29:04 <BHSPitLappy> Does Android have any bandwidth conservation mode?  I understand that most of the default apps rely on letting tons of data come in, but I'd prefer to be the arbiter of any connections made since I don't get unlimited plans
Oct 26 22:32:43 <BruteSource> what device are you using besides g1 that has working gprs/3g?
Oct 26 22:34:17 <BHSPitLappy> BruteSource, none
Oct 26 22:34:40 <BHSPitLappy> But it's a generic question
Oct 26 22:34:55 <BHSPitLappy> I.e., is Android solely designed for unlimited bandwidth plans?
Oct 26 22:35:43 <languish> BHSPitLappy, no. Android is the platform.. the OS
Oct 26 22:35:52 <languish> if you develop a rate limiter for it...
Oct 26 22:36:30 <BHSPitLappy> languish, I know what it is :P
Oct 26 22:36:53 <DarkriftX> hola languish :)
Oct 26 22:36:57 <DarkriftX> down for testing something for me?
Oct 26 22:37:18 <DarkriftX> and have an extra sd card you can format :)
Oct 26 22:37:22 <BHSPitLappy> I tend to use my phone in a very offline manner, I use my PDA for everything else (via wifi)
Oct 26 22:37:23 <languish> so then of course you know that it currently doean't have rate limiting as a user function, but that the possibility someone will develop an app to do it is there
Oct 26 22:37:38 <languish> heya Dark
Oct 26 22:37:57 <BHSPitLappy> And I would want to keep the phone from using my data plan unless it prompts me and I allow it
Oct 26 22:38:00 <DarkriftX> http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=11&t=115&rb_v=viewtopic read about it there, let me know if you are able to test it
Oct 26 22:38:17 <languish> DarkriftX, not for a couple of days.. I have some more microsd's comeing then
Oct 26 22:38:22 <DarkriftX> oh
Oct 26 22:38:26 <DarkriftX> more?
Oct 26 22:38:43 * DarkriftX thinnks languish needs to cut his porn/music collection down
Oct 26 22:39:27 <languish> more as in, other than the ones that came with the g1
Oct 26 22:39:36 <DarkriftX> i c lol
Oct 26 22:40:04 <languish> btw, was that BruteSource's app?
Oct 26 22:40:47 <ivantis> so, does the SSH client for android work?
Oct 26 22:41:25 <languish> DarkriftX ahh n/m
Oct 26 22:41:31 <languish> just read the post
Oct 26 22:41:41 <ivantis> cycle channel?
Oct 26 22:41:45 <ivantis> what does that do?
Oct 26 22:42:01 <umdk1d3> ivantis: its like hop
Oct 26 22:42:03 <languish> ivantis, connectbot works.. but wait until tomorrow to get it. they're still coding fixes in to it before the market release
Oct 26 22:42:15 <ivantis> i dont have a g1 yet
Oct 26 22:42:15 <languish> connectbot = ssh client
Oct 26 22:42:18 <ivantis> no rush
Oct 26 22:42:21 <languish> 'k
Oct 26 22:42:27 <ivantis> yes, i use SSH a lot
Oct 26 22:42:41 <languish> as you should :)
Oct 26 22:43:22 <jcanfield_> SSH is the glue that binds us all.
Oct 26 22:43:51 <laz5> you guys haven't found the code in the source that turns on and off the 3g signal?
Oct 26 22:44:33 <jcanfield_> Is there an RSS feed app?
Oct 26 22:46:40 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: I saw your question earlier about secure desktop Intents. Have you considered adding to the intent a secure hash based on the connection and a secret, and then checking for that hash?
Oct 26 22:46:48 <Ramblurr> jcanfield_:  heh "SSH is the glue that binds us all."   nice
Oct 26 22:48:15 <jcanfield_> :P
Oct 26 22:48:21 <BruteSource> put it inside that squirell
Oct 26 22:48:31 <BruteSource> oops wrong window sorry
Oct 26 22:49:30 <umdk1d3> tomgibara: good idea
Oct 26 22:49:56 <umdk1d3> the issue is that some of these intents might need to exist regardless of an internal list
Oct 26 22:49:58 <waldo__> put it inside the squirrel?  Richard gere?
Oct 26 22:50:08 <umdk1d3> so we might lose any internal secret to compare against
Oct 26 22:50:22 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: May be useless, I can't recall how intents get put onto home
Oct 26 22:50:26 <umdk1d3> because we are using the awesome   ssh://user@host:port/#nickname   format
Oct 26 22:50:40 <umdk1d3> tomgibara: i think you can put extras in those intents
Oct 26 22:50:49 <tomgibara> What do you mean "internal list"?
Oct 26 22:50:57 <anno^da_> swetland: anno: we're looking into options for doing direct sale of unlocked developer hardware. nothing to announce yet.  <- Could you mention some time frame in this case or is it totally open?
Oct 26 22:51:03 <waldo__> list of hashes I assume
Oct 26 22:51:05 <umdk1d3> which is why we were considering putting requested port forwarding stuff in that intent
Oct 26 22:51:22 <umdk1d3> tomgibara: so we have an internal db of hosts the user has kept
Oct 26 22:51:40 <umdk1d3> when laucnhing intents, we arent checking against that internal db for an entry
Oct 26 22:51:47 <waldo__> dumb suggestion here but how about ssh://user@host:port/#nickname?hash=$HASHGOESHERE
Oct 26 22:51:50 <tomgibara> Yes, so you hash the connection string and use that as the id in your db
Oct 26 22:52:15 <tomgibara> Then you create your secure identifier from hash(secret your app knows + that id)
Oct 26 22:52:30 <umdk1d3> im thinking we really want to keep that intent nice and available for other apps, just with a permission to launch it
Oct 26 22:52:57 <umdk1d3> for example, offering an intent to connect and setup an ssh tunnel to other apps
Oct 26 22:53:10 <umdk1d3> with a flag to make it happen in background
Oct 26 22:53:14 <tomgibara> Maybe I'm not understanding, the intent you drop onto the home page includes the whole ssh:// etc?
Oct 26 22:53:15 <umdk1d3> *if the caller wanted that
Oct 26 22:53:26 <umdk1d3> yep, the intent on home (right now) is just that
Oct 26 22:53:56 <umdk1d3> waldo__: also, the fragment goes after params  ;)    ssh://user@host:port/?hash=42#nickname
Oct 26 22:53:59 <tomgibara> So you check for the permission, and if that's missing fall back on checking for a hash formed of the connection string and a secret
Oct 26 22:54:15 <umdk1d3> hmm true
Oct 26 22:54:23 <umdk1d3> ooh!!
Oct 26 22:54:35 <umdk1d3> or, if the caller doesnt have our special permission, we just prompt the user before continuing
Oct 26 22:54:44 <umdk1d3> so desktop stuff would be prompted
Oct 26 22:54:54 <umdk1d3> but anyone else using permission correctly would go straight through  ^.6
Oct 26 22:55:17 <tomgibara> Yeah, but imo it's an unfortunate reversal of what I would want from the home intent
Oct 26 22:55:24 <umdk1d3> true  :/
Oct 26 22:55:31 <tomgibara> If it's on my desktop I want in now :)
Oct 26 22:55:36 <tomgibara> *it
Oct 26 22:55:52 <umdk1d3> very true
Oct 26 22:58:53 <jasta> yay, IDLE works ;)
Oct 26 22:59:20 <anno^da_> jasta: What are you working on at the moment ?
Oct 26 22:59:36 <jasta> supporting push e-mail in the Email app
Oct 26 22:59:48 <umdk1d3> awesome @ jasta ^.^
Oct 26 23:00:10 <anno^da_> ah great :-)
Oct 26 23:00:30 <waldo__> jasta that's fantastic
Oct 26 23:01:02 <waldo__> how does that work?  Would you run a client online somewhere and push notifications?
Oct 26 23:01:29 <jasta> push e-mail is just a fancy buzzword for a persistent TCP connection that gets alerted of new activity
Oct 26 23:01:40 <jasta> in this case, IMAP supports an extension called IDLE which does precisely that
Oct 26 23:01:44 <jasta> and so all i did was make the email app support it
Oct 26 23:01:47 <waldo__> Oh so it wouldn't work with pop
Oct 26 23:01:54 <jasta> although the Email app is designed goofy, so this was a pretty involved hack
Oct 26 23:01:58 <waldo__> I see.
Oct 26 23:02:01 <jasta> no, because POP is a pile of crap
Oct 26 23:02:42 <waldo__> i thoguht the idea was to avoid polling which costs cpu/network and I'm still thinking in POP terms...  because at the moment htat's all I have on my own server.
Oct 26 23:02:51 <jasta> this isn't polling
Oct 26 23:02:54 <waldo__> right I get it
Oct 26 23:03:06 <jasta> the cpu can sleep when its waiting on a socket.
Oct 26 23:03:15 <jasta> the carrier, in my tests, keeps an idle connection alive for about 10 minutes.
Oct 26 23:03:31 <jasta> so, the radio will wake the cpu if within that time there is something to read, and my app deals with it by getting new mail
Oct 26 23:03:35 <waldo__> right but for POP you'd have to run a special client I guess that polls and uses xmpp or something to notify the phone via an open connection
Oct 26 23:03:40 <waldo__> jasta that's cool
Oct 26 23:03:44 <jasta> or, if nothing happens inside of 5 minutes, i wake the cpu up and just poke the server again
Oct 26 23:03:57 <jasta> it's quite efficient, and is precisely how other push technologies work
Oct 26 23:04:09 <waldo__> jasta do you work at google?  And are you using the google email client?
Oct 26 23:04:19 <jasta> unfortunately, my implementation at the moment is quite inefficient ;)
Oct 26 23:04:31 <jasta> the Email app needs to be reworked to make this work properly.  which i will be doing next :)
Oct 26 23:04:54 <jasta> waldo__: i do not.  and im using the app titled "Email" on the G1
Oct 26 23:05:00 <waldo__> so do you contribute the patch back to them and hope they add it?
Oct 26 23:05:12 <gdsx> jasta: I think you meant that POP is a Pile-O-Poop
Oct 26 23:05:24 <jasta> thats the plan.  romain put me in contact with the original developer that built this app so that i could work with him to get my changes sponsored basically
Oct 26 23:05:29 <BruteSource> he ca just patch it and put it on his g1
Oct 26 23:05:29 <waldo__> oh cool
Oct 26 23:05:41 <jasta> yeah, i already have it on my G1
Oct 26 23:05:47 <jasta> did most of my testing on the G1, actually
Oct 26 23:05:53 <waldo__> cool..
Oct 26 23:06:09 <BruteSource> you have an unlocked bootloader?
Oct 26 23:06:15 <waldo__> well I need to switch to IMAP at some point..
Oct 26 23:06:18 <jasta> no, why would i need one?
Oct 26 23:06:28 <jasta> waldo__: you need to switch now, are you kidding?
Oct 26 23:06:40 <gdsx> yeah, POP sucks bigtime
Oct 26 23:06:42 <BruteSource> to put a patched kernel on your g1?
Oct 26 23:06:48 <waldo__> well I haven't had a real reason to switch before
Oct 26 23:06:53 <jasta> BruteSource: and why would i need that?
Oct 26 23:07:07 <waldo__> I don't like keeping emails on a server somewhere but I guess that's the price you pay
Oct 26 23:07:08 <gdsx> waldo__: will you want to access your email from more than a single machine?
Oct 26 23:07:15 <waldo__> gdsx I never used to until i got this phone
Oct 26 23:07:15 <BruteSource> to make the changes?
Oct 26 23:07:31 <yakischloba> has this nonsense gotten to the point where people don't think you can put apps on the G1 because it's locked down? rofl
Oct 26 23:07:38 <gdsx> waldo__: well, time to switch :o)
Oct 26 23:07:46 <waldo__> maybe he's thinking you can't REMOVE system apps because it's locked down..
Oct 26 23:07:49 <gdsx> yakischloba: FUD rolls downhill :o)
Oct 26 23:07:58 <yakischloba> snowballtacular
Oct 26 23:08:00 <waldo__> or replace.
Oct 26 23:08:12 <jasta> BruteSource: why in the hell would i need a custom kernel to change the Email app?  are you listening to yourself?
Oct 26 23:08:13 <waldo__> gdsx yeah it seems that way.
Oct 26 23:08:27 <BruteSource> jasta nevermind you dont undertsand
Oct 26 23:08:28 <waldo__> I've been procrastinating updating my email services for years now
Oct 26 23:08:33 <yakischloba> haha
Oct 26 23:08:33 <waldo__> lots of users/mailing lists etc
Oct 26 23:08:35 <jasta> all I did was change the package namespace with a script and loaded it just like any other app
Oct 26 23:08:55 <waldo__> so jasta you don't replace the original email just add another one?
Oct 26 23:09:13 <jasta> yeah, you cant actually "replace" the other one, because i can't sign my app with the same key that google signed theirs with
Oct 26 23:09:22 <waldo__> i have not yet tried removing/replacing a google app
Oct 26 23:09:24 <waldo__> I see
Oct 26 23:09:32 <jasta> this is a security measure that is in place for all apps, actually.  you can't just arbitrarily replace apps without having the key the developer had
Oct 26 23:09:34 <Dougie187> jasta: you get email all done?
Oct 26 23:09:41 <jasta> Dougie187: working.  not done.
Oct 26 23:09:44 <waldo__> jasta can you remove google apps though?
Oct 26 23:09:45 <Dougie187> cool
Oct 26 23:09:56 <waldo__> if I never use gmail or something can I shitcan it?
Oct 26 23:10:10 <jasta> waldo__: well, no, but that's not because the apps themselves are special, but rather the system image is unwritable so that "reset factory default" works
Oct 26 23:10:12 <waldo__> or will that screw stuff up, say if some other program wants to send it an intent or use it in some other way
Oct 26 23:10:19 <waldo__> ah
Oct 26 23:10:32 <jasta> and i think thats probably a good thing
Oct 26 23:10:41 <jasta> though i think it would be nice to be able to hide them :\
Oct 26 23:10:56 <jasta> but really it's not that big of a deal since i mostly just put icons on the home screen
Oct 26 23:11:00 <waldo__> the system image is on a different peice of storage than the rest of the system/apps?  I know SD has like music and downloads, but apps seem to be on the phone itself... so is the phone's memory split in half?
Oct 26 23:11:20 <waldo__> sorry for basic questions here but I guess this is how I learn
Oct 26 23:11:33 <jasta> waldo__: its a different partition of the internal storage device, yes
Oct 26 23:11:43 <jasta>  /data is where everything else goes
Oct 26 23:11:50 <jasta> and if you reset factory defaults, all it does is rm -rf /data basically :)
Oct 26 23:12:25 <gdsx> waldo__: `adb shell df`
Oct 26 23:12:29 <waldo__> gotcha
Oct 26 23:12:53 <waldo__> I haven't used the adb shell yet
Oct 26 23:13:08 <waldo__> I'm kinda suprirsed there isn't a file system browser yet
Oct 26 23:13:14 <waldo__> i saw some were written eons ago
Oct 26 23:13:52 <jcanfield_> is connectbot the app everyone is using for SSH?
Oct 26 23:14:54 <waldo__> jcanfield it's the only one so yes
Oct 26 23:15:06 <waldo__> AND.. it's really good so far:)
Oct 26 23:15:37 <jasta> umdk1d3: hehe, you would not believe how ugly my patch is right now :)
Oct 26 23:15:43 <jcanfield_> thanks, sorry it's all I could find after searching and considering it's not in the market, I didn't know if there were others.
Oct 26 23:16:04 <eldenz> is there a manual way to create a View from a layout file? (i.e. outside of an Activity)
Oct 26 23:16:08 <jasta> umdk1d3: it actually breaks basically the whole app.  you can only have 1 e-mail account and it can only be push :)
Oct 26 23:16:36 <umdk1d3> lol
Oct 26 23:16:53 <umdk1d3> thats awesome you got it working tho
Oct 26 23:17:02 <jasta> the issue is that a big part of the email apps guts need to be reworked
Oct 26 23:17:07 <jasta> i will be dealing with that larger issue this week
Oct 26 23:17:26 <jasta> they have this silly pattern where all work is done in the applications main thread
Oct 26 23:17:28 <waldo__> jcanfield_ it should be in the market like monday I think, right umk1d3?
Oct 26 23:17:32 <jasta> so the service itself cant be separated, which it needs to be
Oct 26 23:21:19 <umdk1d3> jcanfield_: yea finishing stuff up tonight on it
Oct 26 23:21:25 <umdk1d3> hopefully sshkeys
Oct 26 23:22:30 <tomgibara> Am I permitted to return null from ContentProvider.insert(...)?
Oct 26 23:22:31 <jcanfield_> waldo__, umdk1d3:Thanks, so far i like it...no way to change font size i assume?
Oct 26 23:22:38 <waldo__> try the volume keys
Oct 26 23:22:41 <umdk1d3> jcanfield_: LOL read the tips ;)
Oct 26 23:22:50 <jcanfield_> LOL...k
Oct 26 23:23:01 <jcanfield_> I jsut downloaded it. :P
Oct 26 23:23:05 <umdk1d3> oh okay lol
Oct 26 23:29:53 <DarkriftX> jcanfield_, there is at least one rss app i know of and apparently it works good on g1
Oct 26 23:31:15 <jcanfield_> DarkriftX, can you recall the name?
Oct 26 23:31:25 <DarkriftX> its on my site somewhere
Oct 26 23:31:28 <DarkriftX> ill look
Oct 26 23:32:45 <jcanfield_> all I need now is  file manager and I'm in G1 bliss.
Oct 26 23:32:56 <DarkriftX> ive been looking for one of those
Oct 26 23:32:58 <DarkriftX> no go so far
Oct 26 23:33:12 <jasta> a file manager would not do much except let you browse the sdcard
Oct 26 23:33:24 <jasta> the device has strict permissions.
Oct 26 23:33:25 <DarkriftX> hopefully that will change soon
Oct 26 23:33:37 <jasta> not without jailbreaking, it is this way by design
Oct 26 23:33:38 <jcanfield_> jasta so you could't scp from the sd?
Oct 26 23:33:39 <DarkriftX> id like to see a "power users" unlock method
Oct 26 23:34:01 <jasta> DarkriftX: keep dreaming
Oct 26 23:34:09 <umdk1d3> yea whoever writes a file manger, please think ahead and have some nice PICK intents, say for an scp client  ;)
Oct 26 23:34:09 <jasta> ugh
Oct 26 23:34:17 <jasta> why does everyone think that this device is analogous to their Linux PC?
Oct 26 23:34:25 <DarkriftX> lol, it happened to the iphone and that wasnt even open source
Oct 26 23:34:34 <DarkriftX> because it can be close jasta
Oct 26 23:34:43 <jasta> DarkriftX: it was jailbroken, that is quite unlike a "power users" unlock method
Oct 26 23:34:48 <DarkriftX> ive put linux on handheld devices before and they become a lot more useful
Oct 26 23:34:52 <jasta> it was a hack which exploited a security hole
Oct 26 23:35:14 <DarkriftX> jasta, i was implying a somewhat sanctioned jailbreak method
Oct 26 23:35:22 <jcanfield_> jasta...cause our nokia 810's are collecting dust now. :)
Oct 26 23:35:29 <DarkriftX> somethign that says "warning, do not do this!!" but lets you if you really try
Oct 26 23:36:05 <jasta> DarkriftX: you mean if someone unaffiliated with Google or the OHA exploits a security hole and jailbreaks the device then puts together a big red button app for you?
Oct 26 23:36:21 <DarkriftX> damn dude, settle down
Oct 26 23:37:31 <jasta> stop treating Linux like it's magic an dget off your ass and learn about these things.
Oct 26 23:38:02 <DarkriftX> jasta, my home computer runs linux
Oct 26 23:38:05 <DarkriftX> im not saying its magic
Oct 26 23:38:10 <DarkriftX> its just more powerful then wm
Oct 26 23:38:11 <satadru> has anybody played with the htc bootloader?
Oct 26 23:38:20 <satadru> hold down camera on boot?
Oct 26 23:38:22 <umdk1d3> hmm   man dget doesnt show anything
Oct 26 23:38:23 <DarkriftX> and stop being the channel guard dog
Oct 26 23:38:41 <satadru> the Treo650 uses the HTC bootloader too, no?
Oct 26 23:38:42 <DarkriftX> I wasnt asking anyone to save me from my extremely bad ideas
Oct 26 23:38:46 <satadru> is it much different?
Oct 26 23:39:34 <jasta> why would a treo use an htc bootloader?
Oct 26 23:39:44 <satadru> The Treo 650 was a HTC device
Oct 26 23:39:47 <satadru> if I recall correctly
Oct 26 23:39:55 <jasta> uhh
Oct 26 23:40:00 <Dougie187> isn't it a palm device?
Oct 26 23:40:09 <jasta> it's made by Palm, actually, using the Palm bootloader.
Oct 26 23:40:22 <Dougie187> isn't it called, the Palm Treo 650?
Oct 26 23:40:24 <jasta> it says Palm _on_ it.
Oct 26 23:40:31 <satadru> http://hackndev.com/node/152
Oct 26 23:40:34 <jasta> and even the bootloader says palm hehe
Oct 26 23:40:52 <satadru> Palm designed it, but the device was manufactured by HTC
Oct 26 23:41:00 <jasta> really?
Oct 26 23:41:25 <satadru> yup
Oct 26 23:41:40 <jasta> that surprises me a lot for some reason
Oct 26 23:41:51 <Dougie187> me too...
Oct 26 23:41:59 <eldenz> is there an sdk channel?
Oct 26 23:42:06 <Dougie187> do you have something that says that?
Oct 26 23:42:35 <satadru> let me check
Oct 26 23:42:37 <DarkriftX> htc has designed 2 palm devices now
Oct 26 23:42:43 <DarkriftX> erm, manufactured
Oct 26 23:42:58 <DarkriftX> and they are much better at it
Oct 26 23:44:16 <satadru> http://forum.smartphoneexperts.com/showpost.php?s=9d42d1b9f77006a5cc27702a3c09121c&p=1403876&postcount=573
Oct 26 23:44:59 <Dougie187> no offense... but i mean something... credible..
Oct 26 23:45:06 <Dougie187> fourm posts are hardly that.
Oct 26 23:45:21 <Dougie187> But i did find this.
Oct 26 23:45:22 <Dougie187> http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/08/23/palm-chose-htc-over-inventec-for-treo-pro/
Oct 26 23:45:24 <Dougie187> so you could be right.
Oct 26 23:46:05 <DarkriftX> he IS right
Oct 26 23:46:21 <Dougie187> Do you have something that says it DarkriftX?
Oct 26 23:46:34 <DarkriftX> no, but ive been following htc devices for years
Oct 26 23:46:37 <Rawplayer> sup
Oct 26 23:46:43 <satadru> http://shadowmite.com/wiki/index.php/The_Treo_650_Bootloader
Oct 26 23:47:03 <DarkriftX> do you have somethign that says he is wrong?
Oct 26 23:47:49 <Dougie187> DarkriftX: no, but i just have never heard that, so i was curious to see if it was true. that is all.
Oct 26 23:47:55 <DarkriftX> http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=search&quick=1
Oct 26 23:48:05 <Dougie187> satadru: thanks.
Oct 26 23:48:21 <DarkriftX> pdadb is the largest gathering of pda information ive seen, they have the info want
Oct 26 23:49:06 <DarkriftX> i guess both of the htc palms were technically the same phone
Oct 26 23:49:10 <DarkriftX> just diff versions of it
Oct 26 23:49:15 <Dougie187> DarkriftX: it doesn't say anything about HTC on the Treo 650.
Oct 26 23:50:00 <DarkriftX> all i know is we were talking about htc making devices for palm
Oct 26 23:50:12 <Dougie187> Do you know which one they made?
Oct 26 23:50:36 <DarkriftX> pdadb says the 750 and 750v
Oct 26 23:50:49 <DarkriftX> i thought there were 2 different models, not just different versions
Oct 26 23:51:08 <satadru> I was just mentioning it since the bootloader since my g1 does come up with the htc bootloader prompt... and then a line comes up on the screen that says serial0
Oct 26 23:51:10 <Dougie187> Cool.
Oct 26 23:51:18 <Dougie187> HTC Cheetah, eh?
Oct 26 23:51:36 <Dougie187> Thats interesting, i never knew HTC made a palm device.
Oct 26 23:51:54 <DarkriftX> they arent really palms though
Oct 26 23:51:57 <DarkriftX> no palm sw, no hw
Oct 26 23:52:01 <DarkriftX> just a brand :S
Oct 26 23:52:17 <DarkriftX> its like saying tmobile made the g1
Oct 26 23:52:23 <Dougie187> true, i guess they are Winmo.
Oct 26 23:52:34 <Dougie187> no, because palm isn't a carrier.
Oct 26 23:52:42 <Dougie187> tmobile doesn't make any phones/devices.
Oct 26 23:52:44 <DarkriftX> i meant just becaues of the branding
Oct 26 23:54:27 <Dougie187> Either way, that is interesting.
Oct 27 00:07:23 <jasta> i should release this script that switches the package space of email to so that it can be loaded to the phone
Oct 27 00:07:39 <jasta> you could use this for all the other android apps
Oct 27 00:09:32 <keny> nite!
Oct 27 00:11:24 <wastrel> ahoy/win 2
Oct 27 00:11:27 <wastrel> hrm
Oct 27 00:11:29 <wastrel> i fail at irssi
Oct 27 00:13:03 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 27 00:45:19 <ohgood> is there a list of phones that might someday run android, or  a howto section for current phones that can run it ?
Oct 27 00:45:50 <ttuttle> ohgood: Current phones: G1.  Future phones: any phone that can run Linux, with appropriate drives.
Oct 27 00:46:26 <mpardo> umdk1d3, i got the toast thing figured out ;)
Oct 27 00:46:28 <ohgood> cool that was easy. thanks ttuttle
Oct 27 00:48:31 <d03boy> whats up dudes
Oct 27 00:48:40 <d03boy> anyone make an irc app yet? besides that geo one
Oct 27 00:49:13 <languish> d03boy, weren't you doing ircell?
Oct 27 00:49:31 <languish> you have a lot of peoples hopes up :)
Oct 27 00:49:35 <d03boy> yup
Oct 27 00:49:40 <d03boy> working on it right now
Oct 27 00:49:45 <d03boy> just wondering if anyone else has started yet
Oct 27 00:49:55 <f00f-> umm
Oct 27 00:49:59 <languish> yeah, there's another one
Oct 27 00:50:02 <f00f-> wasn't there an ADC entrant who made an IRC app?
Oct 27 00:50:11 <f00f-> it was a team of two i think
Oct 27 00:50:29 <jasta> f00f-: it is interesting how all those 1800 apps are nowhere to be found now that the G1 is app ;)
Oct 27 00:50:32 <languish> androidchat isn't specifically intended as an "irc client" but it works as one supposedly.
Oct 27 00:50:37 <jasta> G1 is out*
Oct 27 00:50:46 <d03boy> androidchat is for geo location or something
Oct 27 00:50:46 <mpardo> how do i make a linear layout scrollable?
Oct 27 00:50:48 <f00f-> yeah jasta, what are they doing??!
Oct 27 00:50:52 <mpardo> vertically
Oct 27 00:51:07 <languish> d03boy, yes, but it's based on an irc client/server
Oct 27 00:51:34 <d03boy> ya
Oct 27 00:51:50 <languish> I'm guessing they'll lock it down more so you can't /server in it at some point
Oct 27 00:52:14 <fcrick> why would they do that?
Oct 27 00:52:28 <languish> fcrick because it's not intended to be an "irc" client
Oct 27 00:52:42 <languish> they just use irc as a basis for their apps communications function
Oct 27 00:52:44 <f00f-> oh right, it was androidchat
Oct 27 00:52:51 <f00f-> irc is the wrong protocol for location
Oct 27 00:52:55 <languish> there was also next-irc
Oct 27 00:52:56 <f00f-> it's very dangerous
Oct 27 00:52:56 <languish> for android
Oct 27 00:53:03 <f00f-> unencrypted and no endpoint verification
Oct 27 00:53:17 <languish> http://code.google.com/p/next-irc/
Oct 27 00:53:37 <f00f-> lol
Oct 27 00:53:44 <f00f-> i know why ^^ didn't win
Oct 27 00:53:49 <languish> lol
Oct 27 00:54:04 <languish> I really hope we do see an irc app in the market tomorrow
Oct 27 00:54:14 <f00f-> nextirc.java = 349 bytes
Oct 27 00:54:19 <languish> lol
Oct 27 00:54:31 <f00f-> public void onCreate(Bundle icicle) {
Oct 27 00:54:31 <f00f->         super.onCreate(icicle);
Oct 27 00:54:31 <f00f->         setContentView(R.layout.login);
Oct 27 00:54:31 <f00f->     }
Oct 27 00:54:34 <f00f-> gimme a break
Oct 27 00:54:36 <f00f-> :D
Oct 27 00:54:54 <f00f-> but yeah, i also wonder about the other apps that antered
Oct 27 00:54:55 <f00f-> *entered
Oct 27 00:54:55 <tmccrary> android chat doesn't work
Oct 27 00:54:55 <yakischloba> lol
Oct 27 00:55:02 <tmccrary> I try to install it... nada
Oct 27 00:55:10 <languish> tmccrary, it's not released
Oct 27 00:55:18 <languish> wait for them to release it as functional
Oct 27 00:55:26 <tmccrary> oh
Oct 27 00:55:28 <tmccrary> http://code.google.com/p/androidchat/
Oct 27 00:55:35 <languish> you can't assime anything on code.google is updated
Oct 27 00:55:43 <languish> *assume
Oct 27 00:55:53 <tmccrary> eternal beta
Oct 27 00:55:55 <tmccrary> ;)
Oct 27 00:57:14 <languish> I don't think code.google was handled well for android.  I think some people saw apps listed there, that were never worked on again.. but still thought "oh someone's doing that already"
Oct 27 00:58:08 <DarkriftX> i agree :S
Oct 27 00:58:30 <f00f-> umm
Oct 27 00:58:33 <f00f-> not all apps are on code
Oct 27 00:58:39 <f00f-> it wasn't even automatic
Oct 27 00:58:45 <languish> f00f-, that wasn't what I was saying
Oct 27 00:59:57 <languish> also, there've been plenty of people posting in forums how this app or that doesn't work.. not understanding the apk's on code.google aren't necessarily intended to be functional by the devs at that point
Oct 27 01:00:11 <languish> lots of fun chaos
Oct 27 01:00:19 <DarkriftX> it IS fun though lol
Oct 27 01:00:22 <DarkriftX> the "unknown"
Oct 27 01:00:24 <languish> yes :)
Oct 27 01:00:39 <DarkriftX> i just wish i had a way to help explore
Oct 27 01:00:43 <DarkriftX> its boring watching others do it
Oct 27 01:01:07 <languish> but I feel badly for the ones that don't understand what android or the G1 is
Oct 27 01:01:18 <DarkriftX> thats most users :S
Oct 27 01:01:26 <f00f-> most people shouldn't need to know about code.google.com or what an .apk is
Oct 27 01:01:36 <mpardo> how can i make a linear layout scroll vertically?
Oct 27 01:01:39 <DarkriftX> the 20 something ppl buying a g1 in the little tmo store by my work all looked lost, but htey looked like they enjoyed being lost
Oct 27 01:01:49 <f00f-> mpardo: throw a ScrollView around it?
Oct 27 01:01:54 <languish> f00f-, when they google for how to get programs for their G1, they find web forums that reference apk's and how to install apps, and code.google
Oct 27 01:01:58 <mpardo> nice ok
Oct 27 01:02:00 <mpardo> thx
Oct 27 01:02:00 <DarkriftX> i think maybe 3 of them could have told me the name of the OS on the phone, and maybe one of them had known about it for more tehn 2 days
Oct 27 01:03:20 <languish> My neighbor was telling me about this russian guy that lives a few blocks away.. and how he already... *literally* smashed his G1 after getting so frustrated with some e-mail issue
Oct 27 01:03:33 <DarkriftX> my ass hurts :( I stepped on a long thorny branch and fell backwards into the bush. about 15 3/4in thorns right in the ass and most of them broke off and had to be plucked. makes it hard to sit in an office chair on ir
Oct 27 01:03:34 <DarkriftX> irc*
Oct 27 01:03:52 <languish> :\
Oct 27 01:04:24 <f00f-> hahahaha
Oct 27 01:04:25 <f00f-> that sucks
Oct 27 01:05:00 <languish> there are worse ways to get butthurt or so I hear
Oct 27 01:05:02 <languish> :|
Oct 27 01:11:52 <Ramblurr> when using the readParcelableArray(ClassLoader loader) method, what is the loader supposed to be?
Oct 27 01:12:16 <DarkriftX> im sure there are :S
Oct 27 01:12:21 <DarkriftX> my wife laughed when i told her
Oct 27 01:13:18 <languish> DarkriftX, get one of those chairs you lean forward in
Oct 27 01:13:23 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 27 01:13:33 <languish> I used to have one.. I'm planning to get another
Oct 27 01:13:36 <DarkriftX> i guess im just glad i didnt fall forward
Oct 27 01:13:42 <DarkriftX> face would have hurt more
Oct 27 01:13:42 <languish> yeah..
Oct 27 01:13:47 <languish> or crotch :/
Oct 27 01:13:58 <languish> "coulda been worse"
Oct 27 01:21:31 <mpardo> i have a custom service that i start and stop with start and stop buttons
Oct 27 01:21:41 <mpardo> i want to combine those buttons into a start/stop button
Oct 27 01:21:50 <mpardo> how can i check if the service is running?
Oct 27 01:21:56 <mpardo> or what's the best approach?
Oct 27 01:24:08 <jasta> my preference for this is to use AIDL and define a higher layer interface that lets you ask if the service is _busy_ (not necessarily running)
Oct 27 01:24:26 <wastrel> i am happy with my googlephone.  everything is working now...
Oct 27 01:24:30 <jasta> because to bind to a service and figure out what it's doing you must start it.  it is possible, then, to separate "starting" a service with asking it to do work.
Oct 27 01:24:43 <Cooldude1922> what files are necessary for android to run, (in the generic folder, after the build is complete)
Oct 27 01:24:45 <wastrel> but i'm realizing i don't have any friends :]  no email, no sms, no im all day
Oct 27 01:24:45 <jasonparekh> Ramblurr: if you don't have any custom classes in that parcelable, you can just use null for the default class loader
Oct 27 01:24:48 <Cooldude1922> ?
Oct 27 01:24:56 <tmccrary> yeah, my G1 reminds me a lot of my n770
Oct 27 01:25:10 <tmccrary> except it has phone support, 3d, a faster processor and tons more stuff
Oct 27 01:25:25 <Ramblurr> jasonparekh: i am pulling a custom type form it though
Oct 27 01:25:30 <Cooldude1922> hello?
Oct 27 01:25:34 <Cooldude1922> what files are necessary for android to run, (in the generic folder, after the build is complete)?
Oct 27 01:26:14 <DarkriftX> repeating because you werent answered right away is rude
Oct 27 01:26:28 <Cooldude1922> oh, I'm sorry.
Oct 27 01:26:39 <DarkriftX> ppl are reading, if they know an answer they will reply
Oct 27 01:26:43 <jasonparekh> Ramblurr: you can do this.getClass().getClassLoader()
Oct 27 01:27:06 <jasonparekh> Ramblurr: it'll be a class loader that can load classes from your package
Oct 27 01:27:27 <mpardo> hmmm
Oct 27 01:27:49 <jasonparekh> Ramblurr: (by package, I mean your app)
Oct 27 01:27:56 <Cooldude1922> my IRC etiquette is rusty.
Oct 27 01:27:57 <mpardo> jasta, what's the level of difficulty for adding/changing to AIDL?
Oct 27 01:29:01 <Ramblurr> jasonparekh: readParcelableArray() returns a Parcelable[], can I do a simple (MyType[]) cast?
Oct 27 01:29:36 <ironfroggy_> i have a feeling this gets asked a lot here, so i apologize for that. but is java the only thing i can get running over android? is it possible to get c libraries or otherwise to run as well?
Oct 27 01:29:49 <tmccrary> rtfm
Oct 27 01:29:51 <tmccrary> rtfm
Oct 27 01:29:56 <tmccrary> jesus wants you to rtfm
Oct 27 01:30:06 <ironfroggy_> bloaa
Oct 27 01:30:11 <ironfroggy_> "be less of an ass"
Oct 27 01:30:25 <d03boy> ha
Oct 27 01:30:29 <tmccrary> but its a mighty fine one
Oct 27 01:30:30 <ironfroggy_> ive read through a lot of the docs, but tho everything ive found is talking abotu developing in java
Oct 27 01:30:33 <tmccrary> or so I'm told
Oct 27 01:30:37 <ironfroggy_> i cant find anything to say you can _only_ do so
Oct 27 01:30:50 <tmccrary> You shouldn't use jelly, that's for sure
Oct 27 01:30:55 <waldo__> 30 seconds http://code.google.com/android/kb/general.html
Oct 27 01:31:05 <wastrel> ironfroggy_: java is the only supported lang afaik
Oct 27 01:31:06 <ironfroggy_> and a diagram in the docs of the stack of libraries and frameworks in androids includes the c library underneath, and doesn't even mention java.
Oct 27 01:31:20 <ironfroggy_> i didnt know if it was the only thing i could run or just the only thing that is actively supported by the tools.
Oct 27 01:31:22 <romainguy> apps are written in Java language
Oct 27 01:31:39 <waldo__> just read http://code.google.com/android/kb/general.html
Oct 27 01:31:43 <ironfroggy_> i mean, there is a linux kernel underneath, correct?
Oct 27 01:31:49 <romainguy> theoretically you could write apps in any language that can be compiled to Java bytecode
Oct 27 01:31:53 <tmccrary> ironfroggy_: check out this rad new tool I found, here's some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google
Oct 27 01:31:55 <benley> like ruby! :-P
Oct 27 01:32:05 <benley> or um ... javascript!
Oct 27 01:32:14 <tmccrary> Apparently, it lets you search for "random topics" and it will show you relevant links to said topics
Oct 27 01:32:26 <tmccrary> its way better than my old technique
Oct 27 01:32:27 <foobar``> can someone tell me what target to give to make to just build a specific app (e.g., to rebuild the "Phone" app)
Oct 27 01:32:32 <wastrel> i like wiki
Oct 27 01:32:37 <ironfroggy_> tmccrary: thats what ive been doing for the last four hours. bugging people on irc is always a last resort.
Oct 27 01:32:40 <tmccrary> of typing in random url's and seeing if they go anywhere
Oct 27 01:32:43 <ironfroggy_> thats why i apologized before i even asked.
Oct 27 01:32:44 <tmccrary> well you failed Internet 101
Oct 27 01:33:08 <ironfroggy_> you failed polite conversation 101
Oct 27 01:33:23 <tweakt> internet != polite conversation
Oct 27 01:33:25 <tmccrary> Oh don't get all all passive aggressive on me
Oct 27 01:33:27 <ironfroggy_> and i am downright rude to people when they ask me for help, so to fail my standards is pretty bad.
Oct 27 01:33:30 <tweakt> maybe on a good day ;-)
Oct 27 01:33:35 <wastrel> hi flamewars are boring
Oct 27 01:33:39 <tmccrary> I usually help people who help themselves, don't worry
Oct 27 01:33:55 <ironfroggy_> i helped myself quite a bit. like i said, nothing i had found answered my specific question.
Oct 27 01:33:59 <tmccrary> It's like coming in here and going, "Does teh Andoird run teh Lunix?"
Oct 27 01:34:09 <ironfroggy_> the diagram says it does.
Oct 27 01:34:09 <waldo__> actually they should update that FAQ about "will the phone run on <insert handset here>"
Oct 27 01:34:14 <tmccrary> and then get all bitchy when you don't get a relevant response
Oct 27 01:34:50 <tweakt> I think he's referring to the platform block diagram, showing native components and drivers. However, those are not described as APIs or developer interfaces in any way
Oct 27 01:34:54 <waldo__> ironfroggy_ == I just searched and it took me 15 seconds to find the link I posted above with the answer
Oct 27 01:35:05 <wastrel> tmccrary: i heard it does run linux
Oct 27 01:35:11 <ironfroggy_> waldo__: you knew what to search for.
Oct 27 01:35:24 <waldo__> ??  I used your question
Oct 27 01:35:41 <tmccrary> lol
Oct 27 01:35:47 <tweakt> lol, yeah you could literally paste in the whole sentence and get a decent answer
Oct 27 01:35:52 <waldo__> "android code languages support "  <- third link
Oct 27 01:36:35 <waldo__> okay i'll more fully answer your question iron
Oct 27 01:37:00 <ironfroggy_> tweakt: yes thats the diagram i was looking at. and it given that it explicitly points out its running a linux kernel underneath and doesnt even mention a jvm, i didnt find it unusual to assume java was simply the support language by the SDK, rather than by the platform
Oct 27 01:37:19 <waldo__> Android is an entire operating system... parts of it are written in C...  the kernel is a modified linux kernel..   However, the part that is "exposed" to the public for development is java.
Oct 27 01:37:43 <ironfroggy_> i could have assumed "open" had its limitations. would i be right assuming thats one place it means that limit?
Oct 27 01:37:45 <tmccrary> which makes sense, since google wants android apps to be able to run on random handsets
Oct 27 01:37:55 <tmccrary> which may or may not have the same underlying hardware architecture
Oct 27 01:37:58 <ironfroggy_> or is it just that that is the only part documented and supported by the dev tools?
Oct 27 01:38:01 <ironfroggy_> thats what im getting at.
Oct 27 01:38:29 <waldo__> think of the underlying stuff as "irrelevant" to the developer.  They write the stuff in java and it magically runs on all the different versions of android phones... which currently is one.  plus the emulator.
Oct 27 01:38:31 <ironfroggy_> tmccrary: they could standardize the libc across handsets, perhaps.
Oct 27 01:38:37 <ironfroggy_> but i still get the reasoning, of course.
Oct 27 01:38:48 <amitava> damn router
Oct 27 01:39:07 <tmccrary> which is really trippy for my current project
Oct 27 01:39:12 <waldo__> iron-- the entire thing is open sourced actually-- including all the stuff written in C, the underlying stuff.  But the part you need to concern yourself with is java.
Oct 27 01:39:30 <ironfroggy_> waldo__: ok but for my purposes maybe its not so irrelevant. so i know and expected the tools didnt support this directly, but am i actually barred from getting anything running "under" the java? from installing other c libraries?
Oct 27 01:39:30 <tmccrary> emulator -> java -> dalvik vm -> platform
Oct 27 01:39:39 <tmccrary> that's a hell of a lot of abstraction going on ;)
Oct 27 01:39:48 <waldo__> or as romain said anythign that can convert to the java bytecode
Oct 27 01:40:00 <wastrel> ppl are still working on jython yes?
Oct 27 01:40:04 <waldo__> ironfroggy_ yes you are barred.
Oct 27 01:40:07 <ironfroggy_> I'm looking to port Python, actually. and I could use Jython, but its always lagging behind a bit.
Oct 27 01:40:10 <waldo__> for security reasons.
Oct 27 01:40:35 <ironfroggy_> waldo__: thank you. that was the question i was actually trying to get an answer to..
Oct 27 01:40:52 <ironfroggy_> so it looks like I'm going to start being a Jython user.
Oct 27 01:41:04 <wastrel> i saw a post about clojure too
Oct 27 01:41:10 <ironfroggy_> hearing a lot about that lately
Oct 27 01:41:12 <ironfroggy_> but i just havent the time
Oct 27 01:41:16 <benley> has someone actually got jython moving on dalvik?
Oct 27 01:41:31 <tmccrary> I wish Sun would get a C++ to bytecode compiler going
Oct 27 01:41:36 <Ramblurr> :\ are there restrictions on what you can import in an AIDL?
Oct 27 01:41:36 <tweakt> ironfroggy_: in case it wasn't mentioned you develop in Java but your applications are translated to a different byte code before going onto the phone, so no "JDK" as you may know it, but the same Java api's are available
Oct 27 01:41:56 <ironfroggy_> tmccrary: are there llvm to jvm compilers?
Oct 27 01:42:04 <ironfroggy_> because there are C/C++ to llvm compilers.
Oct 27 01:42:12 <ironfroggy_> llvm is the rosetta stone.
Oct 27 01:42:18 <tmccrary> not sure
Oct 27 01:42:22 <tmccrary> but that would be cool :)
Oct 27 01:42:27 <benley> llvm++
Oct 27 01:42:47 <ironfroggy_> someone inside adobe, for example, has python running inside flash by compiling cpython to llvm to tarmarin bytecode.
Oct 27 01:43:02 <ironfroggy_> has actually built a few different language runtimes into flash internally, that way.
Oct 27 01:43:06 <tmccrary> wow, they found a way to make python slower, lol
Oct 27 01:43:20 <ironfroggy_> oh thats just about as mean as it is false
Oct 27 01:43:28 <ironfroggy_> ive ported C to python with speed increases.
Oct 27 01:43:43 <tweakt> hey guys, #languagewars is over there ==>
Oct 27 01:43:47 <ironfroggy_> langauges aren't fast or slow. only code and coders are fast or slow.
Oct 27 01:43:48 <tmccrary> well, I hate to break this to you, but the way to python code fast.... is to rewrite it in C ;)
Oct 27 01:43:54 <tmccrary> no, platforms can be slow
Oct 27 01:43:59 <ironfroggy_> only if you're ruby
Oct 27 01:44:03 <ironfroggy_> but tweakt is correct
Oct 27 01:44:09 <tmccrary> Python is a shining example. I mean what about multithreaded systems?
Oct 27 01:44:16 <ironfroggy_> what about it?
Oct 27 01:44:16 <tmccrary> You can't even use real threads!
Oct 27 01:44:21 <ironfroggy_> i dont want to use real threads.
Oct 27 01:44:26 <tweakt> short answer, want to develop for Android today, write Java.
Oct 27 01:44:31 <ironfroggy_> im an async guy myself.
Oct 27 01:44:33 <ironfroggy_> twisted ftw.
Oct 27 01:44:35 <tmccrary> GIL ftw
Oct 27 01:44:41 <ironfroggy_> im thankful for the GIL
Oct 27 01:45:01 <tmccrary> I'm saying python is a bad language, mind you
Oct 27 01:45:12 <ironfroggy_> i do tutoring and consulting. and i find people using threads a lot. ive never found anyone actually have a justifiable reason to do so. not once.
Oct 27 01:45:19 <tmccrary> eh, k, whatever
Oct 27 01:45:21 <tmccrary> move along ;)
Oct 27 01:45:28 <amitava> Guys, question. My phone's bottom part heats up whenever I start doing something (browsing, mp3).. like in 2 minutes.. is it normal? Never had a phone that heats up :|
Oct 27 01:45:33 <tweakt> It's not whether you _use_ threads, it's _how_
Oct 27 01:45:40 <ironfroggy_> exactly
Oct 27 01:45:49 <ironfroggy_> and ive never know anyone who knew how. period.
Oct 27 01:45:55 <tweakt> everything uses threads in some manner, maybe they're just inside the kernel and not in your app ;-)
Oct 27 01:45:56 <tmccrary> that's amazingly stupid
Oct 27 01:45:57 <mpardo> can i define a url in a textview but display different text?
Oct 27 01:45:58 <ironfroggy_> and the better you know how to use them, the more likely you know not to.
Oct 27 01:45:59 <tmccrary> threads aren't hard
Oct 27 01:46:09 <mpardo> and autolink
Oct 27 01:46:10 <tmccrary> if you get to use them when designing the architecture
Oct 27 01:46:22 <languish> amitava, yes, it's pretty normal
Oct 27 01:46:22 <tmccrary> slapping threads into an app designed to be single threaded, that's a lot more work
Oct 27 01:46:28 <ironfroggy_> saying threads arent hard is the best sign to tell everyone you dont actually understand them.
Oct 27 01:46:44 <wastrel> amitava: i saw reports that the pre-release demo units heated up while charging
Oct 27 01:46:51 <tmccrary> whatever, go back to your amazingly fast single threaded python work and leave us poor newbies alone
Oct 27 01:46:57 <tweakt> Ok... Android question!! What is the best way to check if a service is running, I don't want to start it, but just show if it's running (status display more or less)
Oct 27 01:47:00 <tmccrary> and stop taunting us with your advanced knowledge from the future
Oct 27 01:47:09 <ironfroggy_> tmccrary: yeah i should. you time to level up.
Oct 27 01:47:24 <ironfroggy_> *you need time
Oct 27 01:47:27 <amitava> wastrel: its while using. not charging. And i bought it from store..
Oct 27 01:47:54 <ironfroggy_> tmccrary: just to be clear, im pushing your buttons as much as you were trying to push mine. i dont mind disagreeing.
Oct 27 01:47:58 <wastrel> amitava: that's all i've got on phone heating up... :]  mine, i haven't noticed anthing like that
Oct 27 01:48:05 <languish> amitava, as long as it doesn't get hot enough to burn you, you should be fine. It DOES warm up.. as it draw a lot of power from the battery for the screen and radios
Oct 27 01:48:06 <amitava> l'm afraid its gonna explode like some of those ipod or something..
Oct 27 01:48:30 <mpardo> jasta, can i use ActivityManager.getRunningServices ?
Oct 27 01:48:32 <d03boy> amitava, glad you're testing it for us
Oct 27 01:48:33 <RyeBrye> Hmm... Anyone here know the black magic of getting Eclipse's software update thing to work? I'm on ganymede and trying to install the android developer tools, and here's what I'm getting as the error: http://pastebin.com/d5fa28993
Oct 27 01:48:40 <amitava> :O
Oct 27 01:48:44 <jasta> mpardo: no, you totally missed what i said.
Oct 27 01:48:50 <jasta> mpardo: here, i will find you an example.
Oct 27 01:48:52 <languish> amitava, turn off 3g, gps, wifi, bluetooth, turn down the screen brightness, see if it still gets as hot
Oct 27 01:49:09 <amitava> languish: all r off already. from day 1
Oct 27 01:49:16 <languish> amitava, it also depends on how you hold it
Oct 27 01:49:33 <amitava> im just using imeem now..
Oct 27 01:49:36 <icheishvili> Hi, I have a listview that has multiple rows and each row is complex (has one imageview, and two textviews)--how can I iterate over every row and retrieve each imageview?
Oct 27 01:49:39 <languish> ph
Oct 27 01:49:43 <languish> amitava is SamSerious_
Oct 27 01:49:45 <jasta> mpardo: http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-client/src/org/devtcg/five/service/MetaService.java -- notice how i don't ever even implemente onStart?
Oct 27 01:49:50 <jasta> implement*
Oct 27 01:49:51 <languish> sam, stop messing around
Oct 27 01:49:53 <mpardo> Thanks!
Oct 27 01:50:00 <amitava> what did i do?
Oct 27 01:50:03 <amitava> :|
Oct 27 01:50:20 <amitava> its my name..
Oct 27 01:50:42 <jasta> mpardo: please try to understand what i mean.  starting or binding to a service is not necessarily the same as "doing work".
Oct 27 01:50:57 <jasta> services are typically there to do work, but can be started/stopped in the Android context regardless of what work you schedule them to do
Oct 27 01:51:12 <jasta> in fact, any service that you bind to in order to figure out what's going is going to be started _JUST_ because you bound to it.
Oct 27 01:51:35 <jasta> so obviously everytime an activity opens that depends on that service you don't want "work" to be done.  you just want a way to schedule work.
Oct 27 01:51:49 <jasta> the class i sent you is an example of this because i use this design pattern in almost all of my code
Oct 27 01:52:03 <jasta> for the code that actually interacts with this service navigate to five-client/src/.../activity/SourceList.java
Oct 27 01:52:24 <mpardo> ok
Oct 27 01:52:31 <jasta> you will also see a class in use called ServiceActivity which i use as a convenient way to critically bind activities to services
Oct 27 01:52:45 <jasta> this isn't the only method, but imo it is the most flexible and so i use it often
Oct 27 01:53:18 <mpardo> what other methods do you know of?
Oct 27 01:53:39 <jasta> well, you can use broadcast intents to communicate back and forth
Oct 27 01:53:47 <jasta> IMO, this is absurdly clumsy
Oct 27 01:54:05 <icheishvili> anyone know how to do this with listviews?
Oct 27 01:54:13 <jasta> icheishvili: do what/
Oct 27 01:54:37 <icheishvili> jasta: iterate over each one of its rows, and get a certain child of every row
Oct 27 01:54:38 <jasta> icheishvili: *just read*, well, you're approaching this problem the wrong way
Oct 27 01:54:49 <mpardo> hmmm
Oct 27 01:54:55 <jasta> the ListView (in particular, the *view*) represents only the objects necessary to draw.  it doesn't represent a list.
Oct 27 01:55:16 <jasta> the adapter you attach to it is the thing that represents a list of data, and that is how you should access your data.
Oct 27 01:55:35 <icheishvili> jasta: right, what I'm trying to do is spawn off worker threads in the background after the data has already been rendered to the screen to fetch images
Oct 27 01:55:41 <jasta> so if you wanted to iterate through all data in your adapter, it would be as simple adapter.getCount(); for (int i = 0; i < n; i++ ) adapter.getItem(i) ..
Oct 27 01:55:55 <jasta> icheishvili: oh, well ignore what i just said then :)
Oct 27 01:55:55 <icheishvili> jasta: what you're saying is that I should fork those off before I render and just pass it in as part of the data, right?
Oct 27 01:55:57 <jasta> you do want the listview ;)
Oct 27 01:56:22 <jasta> there is some code you may find handy.  google for Jeffrey Sharkey's TunesRemote
Oct 27 01:56:24 <icheishvili> jasta: ok, well then my assumption was correct, so I had a 50/50 chance ;)
Oct 27 01:56:35 <icheishvili> even so, I can't figure out how to do this
Oct 27 01:57:02 <icheishvili> jasta: right, I can get the individual items no problem--but those items themselves contain multiple children views
Oct 27 01:57:18 <jasta> what you're going to end up doing is still working with the adapter though.  basically you'd fire off a single thread to download whatever data you need and fill in the adapter and listview as necessary
Oct 27 01:57:21 <icheishvili> and I want a specific one of the children--I've been unsuccessful thus far calling child.findViewById()
Oct 27 01:57:33 <jasta> oh boy :)
Oct 27 01:57:51 <tweakt> android.hardware.SensorManager.GRAVITY_DEATH_STAR_I
Oct 27 01:58:01 <jasta> well, findViewById is what you would do, so if it's not working you're just using it wrong
Oct 27 01:58:07 * RyeBrye hates Eclipse
Oct 27 01:58:08 <tweakt> I like a sense of humor in my APIs ;-)
Oct 27 01:58:33 <icheishvili> jasta: I'm calling it on the R.id.fooimg that I need--I hope it's not getting confused
Oct 27 01:58:41 <jasta> however, there is an optimization that is recommended called a ViewHolder where you can attach the findViewById result to the parent object itself and then access it directly.  you can ignore that for now though, as its just an optimization.
Oct 27 01:59:01 <jasta> icheishvili: this is too complex for me to explain outside the context of an example.  can you paste something and i will explain what's happening and what you need to change?
Oct 27 01:59:13 <icheishvili> jasta: sure, I can paste...just a second...
Oct 27 01:59:47 <jasta> icheishvili: suffice it tos ay lists are _very_ intricate.  using them efficiently is tricky, but possible if you understand how the class was designed.
Oct 27 02:02:00 <laz6> 2 more hours until marketplace is open
Oct 27 02:02:15 * f00f- loves the ViewHolder pattern
Oct 27 02:02:46 <jasta> f00f-: i extended SimpleCursorAdapter to use the ViewHolder pattern with ViewBinder's.
Oct 27 02:03:08 <icheishvili> jasta: here's the code in question, at least the relevant part: http://pastebin.com/d46e12cef
Oct 27 02:03:21 <f00f-> very nice. i actually don't find myself using many cursors anymore, most of my data is from the network
Oct 27 02:03:22 <gambler> hey romainguy, what would be involved in setting up a harness outside the emulator to prototype GUIs faster?
Oct 27 02:03:22 <Cooldude1922> um, are there any special flags for the make command to compile android?
Oct 27 02:03:40 <jasta> hmm, what the hell
Oct 27 02:03:43 <jasta> how do i remove an e-mail account?
Oct 27 02:03:44 <icheishvili> :)
Oct 27 02:03:57 <icheishvili> oh, I thought you were wtf-ing on my code, lol
Oct 27 02:04:01 <jasta> ahh there we go
Oct 27 02:04:11 <jasta> well maybe, ihavent looked yet :)
Oct 27 02:04:47 <foobar``> what do I need to do to get changes to show up in the image?
Oct 27 02:05:05 <foobar``> it looks like it's just using an old version..
Oct 27 02:05:11 <jasta> icheishvili: hehe, well yes.  this obviously wont work
Oct 27 02:05:38 <icheishvili> jasta: well at least you can see why--care to pass on the knowledge to a peon like myself? :)
Oct 27 02:06:00 <jasta> you need to implement your own adapter for this sophisitcation
Oct 27 02:06:19 <jasta> a good place for you to start learning how this works _IN GENERAL_ is to see List14.java in the ApiDemos
Oct 27 02:06:30 <icheishvili> jasta: will take a look
Oct 27 02:06:49 <eldenz> http://code.google.com/android/samples/ApiDemos/src/com/example/android/apis/view/List14.html
Oct 27 02:06:57 <eldenz> just happened to have this open in browser :p
Oct 27 02:07:33 <jasta> icheishvili: and if you are looking for a more advanced implementation of the basic idea you're trying to accomplish, see Jeffrey Sharkey's TunesRemote app
Oct 27 02:07:59 <jasta> but you need to start by just trying to grasp how adapters and listviews work together.  the apidemos, in particular List14 will help with that.
Oct 27 02:07:59 <icheishvili> jasta: eventually, I would like to be able to replace individual rows with a more detailed view of that single row when the user touches it
Oct 27 02:08:12 <jasta> icheishvili: and that is possible
Oct 27 02:08:19 <icheishvili> alright, sounds good, I'll take a look at this thing and come back with any questions ;)
Oct 27 02:08:43 <jasta> really try to study how it's working.  i can't stress enought hat lists are very intricate in Android
Oct 27 02:08:51 <jasta> they are optimized so well it's mind boggling
Oct 27 02:09:03 <jasta> and we can all thank Romain's brilliant work for that ;)
Oct 27 02:09:27 <icheishvili> jasta: thanks for the help so far
Oct 27 02:10:20 <jasta> icheishvili: the specific reason why your usage won't work, btw, is because the listview is going to have lots of children that all have the same ids.
Oct 27 02:10:21 <swetland> "I do not fear disease, because ListView will kill me first." - Romain
Oct 27 02:10:28 <jasta> view ids are not unique to the full hierarchy
Oct 27 02:10:42 <jasta> so each row is essentially exactly the same view just with different data bound to it
Oct 27 02:10:48 <jasta> so you use findViewById on each row _AS YOU NEED IT_
Oct 27 02:10:51 <icheishvili> jasta: that's what I was suspecting and hoping to get around with by a DOM-like getChildNodes()
Oct 27 02:11:38 <jasta> icheishvili: do not interact with the ListView directly unless you really know what you're doing :)
Oct 27 02:12:00 <icheishvili> jasta: "know what you're doing" -- that does not apply to me yet :)
Oct 27 02:12:16 <jasta> use the adapter for just about everything.  the only way you would hit the ListView is if you're wanting to access things currently on screen.  like for instance, if you h ad a list of downloads and you wante dto update progress on each
Oct 27 02:13:05 <jasta> you would find some way to map your adapter row id (the download id) to the listview child and then update the listviews that are on screen, while simultaneously storing the data in the adapter so that as you scroll around updates still happen
Oct 27 02:14:14 <jasta> icheishvili: it may help you to realize one of the major optimizations going on here...
Oct 27 02:14:29 <icheishvili> jasta: wow, sounds cool, can't wait to play with that because I know I'm going to with this app
Oct 27 02:14:47 <jasta> the ListView generally tries to only bind data to items that are to be displayed.  so a list of 1000 items would be as fast as a list of 100
Oct 27 02:14:50 <jasta> or 50
Oct 27 02:14:51 <jasta> or 50000
Oct 27 02:15:17 <icheishvili> so it's like a Flex DataGrid, in that it only draws what's visible?
Oct 27 02:15:30 <jasta> it does this by storing slightly more row views as there are on screen and as you scroll it actually re-uses old views (rather than recreating them) and binds new data to it
Oct 27 02:15:43 <jasta> so there is a recycle bin of views that have recently left the screen which will be re-used as you fling around
Oct 27 02:15:57 <jasta> in this way, the ListView is very infrequently needing to inflate your row views from XML
Oct 27 02:15:59 <icheishvili> nice, that's a clever implementation
Oct 27 02:16:08 <jasta> likewise, the listview never cares at all about all items in your list
Oct 27 02:16:22 <jasta> it only concerns itself with approximately what is on screen
Oct 27 02:16:31 <jasta> the adapter, otoh, is the proper representation of your entire data set
Oct 27 02:16:59 <icheishvili> I guess that's why I'm writing my own :)
Oct 27 02:17:04 <icheishvili> or trying to
Oct 27 02:17:15 <jasta> yes, generally you can get away with using SimpleCursorAdapter or i think it's ArrayAdapter (?)
Oct 27 02:17:25 <icheishvili> SimpleAdapter in my case
Oct 27 02:17:33 <jasta> SimpleCursorAdapter especially since it has a feature to let you use a ViewBinder to "bind" cursor data to an existing inflated row view
Oct 27 02:17:40 <jasta> oh yes SimpleAdapter also has a view binder actually
Oct 27 02:17:46 <romainguy> SimpleAdapter is the equivalent for non-db data
Oct 27 02:18:16 <jasta> but for just about every non-trivial list trickery you will end up extending an existing adapter
Oct 27 02:18:26 <jasta> this is a very common trick for Android developers to know about :)
Oct 27 02:18:45 <icheishvili> good thing I'm learning it now--I can't really say I'm following what's going on in List14.java just yet
Oct 27 02:18:54 <jasta> the reason you would do so is that you can have more control over how you store your data and how you map it to list rows
Oct 27 02:19:29 <jasta> icheishvili: romain is the expert on all of this btw, if he tells you something you listen ;)
Oct 27 02:19:40 <icheishvili> jasta: he wrote it right?
Oct 27 02:20:29 <jasta> well i'm not sure if he wrote it all or not, but i know that it has been his to maintain for quite some time
Oct 27 02:20:46 <jasta> anyway, you really want to digest List14.java bfeore you proceed with writing your own sophisticated adapter
Oct 27 02:20:50 <jasta> and your adapter is sophisticated :)
Oct 27 02:21:00 <tomgibara> I owe romainguy an apology: I didn't find a bug in the FocusFinder, as I found out when I tried to build a testcase. Sorry for wasting your time Romain.
Oct 27 02:21:30 <romainguy> tomgibara: no worry :)
Oct 27 02:21:38 <romainguy> like I said, teh focus system is not obvious :)
Oct 27 02:21:47 <tomgibara> What I did find is that there's a bug in the emulator that fails to rotate the mapping of direction arrows on the keymap *sigh*
Oct 27 02:22:09 <romainguy> jasta: icheishvili : I didn't write ListView, but I helped optimize the hell out of it and I spend a lot of time maintaining it
Oct 27 02:22:19 <romainguy> tomgibara: ouch :)
Oct 27 02:22:32 <jasta> romainguy: hey i wrote a pretty cool script that lets you translate the namespace of an app so that you can load it onto the G1
Oct 27 02:22:35 <tomgibara> Yeah. I swore a little.
Oct 27 02:22:38 <jasta> not sure if that would be useful to you or not
Oct 27 02:23:07 <romainguy> jasta: to me no, but it might be very interesting for non-OHA developers
Oct 27 02:23:20 <romainguy> could be worth having in the git tree
Oct 27 02:23:34 <tomgibara> jasta: It's the sort of thing I would find useful
Oct 27 02:23:35 <romainguy> dinner time
Oct 27 02:23:38 <jasta> it just reads an AndroidManifest and adjusts it and the source tree as necessary
Oct 27 02:23:49 <jasta> it can be used as a toggle too
Oct 27 02:23:52 <PoohbaLT> ugh!  Android doesn't follow the mail rules... ie. "Send mail as account mail was sent to"
Oct 27 02:23:58 <jasta> i wrote it so that i can deploy stuff to the G1 but then still have clean git diffs :)
Oct 27 02:24:24 <jasta> tomgibara: alright, i'll post it pretty soon (still working out small kinks)
Oct 27 02:26:15 <languish> I really hope that android e-mail app gets that damn bug fixed that caused it to keep sending the message I was in the middle of composing (and I had no way of telling it was being sent)
Oct 27 02:27:14 <languish> it looked like an imap problem
Oct 27 02:28:04 <icheishvili> jasta: so it looks to me like the majority of the work here is done in the getView() function--with ViewHolder doing the caching stuff
Oct 27 02:28:51 <icheishvili> essentially, the DATA member is the ArrayList that I pass in (I think) and the rest I can do in this function
Oct 27 02:29:03 <jasta> getView is responsibe for binding data to a view (and also inflating a view if necessary)
Oct 27 02:29:16 <jasta> ViewHolder's just an optimization to avoid doing findViewById each time you need to bind data
Oct 27 02:29:21 <jasta> but it's a good optimization :)
Oct 27 02:29:30 <icheishvili> jasta: right, which is what I care about--binding the right data to the right widgets
Oct 27 02:29:45 <jasta> yup.  and that's precisely what adapters are for
Oct 27 02:30:06 <icheishvili> jasta: now am I right in  my assertion that DATA is the ArrayList of HashMaps that I passed in?
Oct 27 02:30:50 <icheishvili> because, looking at the constructor for this adapter (list14), all I see being passed in is a context
Oct 27 02:30:56 <jasta> erm, im not sure what youre talking about, hang on
Oct 27 02:31:13 <jasta> oh DATA is just arbitrary in this case
Oct 27 02:31:14 <Surye> Hmm.. GregorianCalendar is returning for GMT, shouldn't it be the local timezone?
Oct 27 02:31:24 <jasta> it's how this particular adapter wants to store its list data
Oct 27 02:31:30 <jasta> you could do this however you feel like
Oct 27 02:31:40 <icheishvili> ah, ok, so the constructor signature isn't right for me
Oct 27 02:31:42 <icheishvili> that was throwing me off
Oct 27 02:33:34 <icheishvili> Ok, I think I'll give my implementation a shot
Oct 27 02:34:29 <jasta> also note that getItem and getItemId are also arbitrary
Oct 27 02:34:55 <jasta> that is for your benefit to provide so that when users click items in the list the onitemclicklistener can have access to whatever data makes sense for that row position
Oct 27 02:35:18 <jasta> for instance, a SimpleCursorAdapter implements getItem() by returning a cursor which is positioned to that row so you can get its data.
Oct 27 02:35:19 <romainguy> jasta: except getItemId() might be a tad more complicated when the adapter supports stable ids
Oct 27 02:35:36 <icheishvili> jasta: makes sense--I'm not sure what that would be for me right now, but I think I'll figure it out when I need it
Oct 27 02:35:37 <romainguy> (stable ids enable ListView to do a better job at saving/restoring the state)
Oct 27 02:36:20 <icheishvili> one thing that I will say is that if the data changes, it will be a completely new list
Oct 27 02:36:31 <icheishvili> there aren't going to be any insertions/updates/deletions
Oct 27 02:36:57 <jasta> well actually that wouldnt be terribly difficult to support, but ok :)
Oct 27 02:37:27 <foobar``> is anyone familiar with the dialer/phone app?
Oct 27 02:37:29 <icheishvili> jasta: what I was trying to say is that the data will not change
Oct 27 02:38:02 <foobar``> is ButtonGridLayout even used? changing the # of columns does nothing and sticking a null dereference in the constructors also does nothing
Oct 27 02:41:01 <Surye> Where can I find Dalvik source code?
Oct 27 02:45:48 <foobar``> oh
Oct 27 02:45:52 <gdsx> Surye: .../external/dalvik/?
Oct 27 02:46:06 <gdsx> sorry, not external
Oct 27 02:46:21 <foobar``> it looks like there's lots of random stuff leftover from code moves
Oct 27 02:46:26 <foobar``> where the originals were never removed...
Oct 27 02:47:01 <foobar``> eg it looks like dialer was moved from "Phone" app to "Contacts" app, but ButtonGridLayout.java is in both dirs, unused in phone app
Oct 27 02:47:20 <gdsx> foobar``: dunno
Oct 27 02:47:36 <foobar``> er was just pointing that out to any google people here
Oct 27 02:47:38 <wastrel> can the android browser read documents on the sd card?
Oct 27 02:48:40 <gdsx> wastrel: so, the real answer is "there's another browser which displays local HTML documents"
Oct 27 02:49:10 <wastrel> gdsx: so there's a way to view content offline?  because some of us ride the subway every day :]
Oct 27 02:49:16 <gdsx> foobar``: it'd be useful if you could file a ticket so it doesn't get lost
Oct 27 02:49:23 <foobar``> ok
Oct 27 02:49:49 <gdsx> wastrel: oh, that's a different question.  I don't think there's a good way right now, but I'm not positive my answer is correct
Oct 27 02:50:27 <wastrel> ebook reader & offline/caching web something would be brilliant
Oct 27 02:53:32 <unix_infidel> wastrel: ditto on that.  project gutenberg / amazon integration would be killer too.
Oct 27 02:53:53 <wastrel> amazon books are drm
Oct 27 02:53:59 <unix_infidel> especially when we get larger / better quality screen.
Oct 27 02:54:08 <unix_infidel> wastrel: most e-books are.
Oct 27 02:54:28 <wastrel> drm is bad
Oct 27 02:54:52 <tmccrary> I wonder if google would consider offering the Kindle's format for Android
Oct 27 02:54:59 <weilawei> does the A2DP profile for bluetooth (stereo bluetooth) have to be supported specially in hardware or would it be possible to hack it in software?
Oct 27 02:55:03 <tmccrary> or I guess amazon could do it
Oct 27 02:55:14 <tmccrary> although then they'd lose the sweet, sweet 400$ a pop they make off suckers
Oct 27 02:55:28 <wastrel> well at least you can read your kindle books on the subway :p
Oct 27 02:55:53 <tmccrary> I live in detroit, you insensitive clod!
Oct 27 02:56:17 <Adamant> tmccrary: I'm not sure they're making out as that much of a bandit on the deal
Oct 27 02:56:28 <Adamant> once you factor in all the hardware in one
Oct 27 02:56:32 <tmccrary> Is epaper still that expensive?
Oct 27 02:56:39 <tmccrary> Everything else about the device has to be pretty cheap
Oct 27 02:57:13 <unix_infidel> well you have a GPRS device and epaper in a 400 dollar device with probably a 2 cell battery.
Oct 27 02:57:26 <Adamant> that, it has 3G connectivity, WiFi, and probably roughly G1 or iPhone level processing power minus the PowerVP processor
Oct 27 02:57:36 <Adamant> *VR
Oct 27 02:57:44 <unix_infidel> Adamant: it's a 3G device?
Oct 27 02:57:55 <Adamant> unix_infidel: EVDO is 3G isn't it?
Oct 27 02:57:58 <Adamant> or 2.5G
Oct 27 02:58:38 <Adamant> now factor in that Amazon is a hardware company and having to learn a lot of the little tricks
Oct 27 02:58:41 <Adamant> *isn't a
Oct 27 02:59:56 <unix_infidel> I'd rather spend 500 bucks on a MDI / UMPC
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 27 02:59:57 2008