**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 28 02:59:57 2008 Oct 28 03:00:18 romainguy, d03boy was asking about a horizontal scrolling panel Oct 28 03:00:28 which is something task switcher does sort of Oct 28 03:00:37 it's using a Gallery view Oct 28 03:00:48 ah is that what that is Oct 28 03:07:53 well i dont think anyone has gotten the gsm hardware on any omap850 device to work and i have no clue howto, so it appears im at the end of my android experience Oct 28 03:08:04 BistroMath gets to be the tip calc we keep Oct 28 03:09:14 BruteSource, have you tried contacting TI? Oct 28 03:09:32 BruteForce: is GSM being actively worked on for any of the omap850 devices? Oct 28 03:21:50 languish, you think they will write linux drivers for us? Oct 28 03:23:02 swetland had mentioned that the android team in early development were wirking with omap850 i wonder if they had all the gsm stuf working Oct 28 03:27:06 sweet Oct 28 03:27:13 11 minutes to compile Android 1.0 on my machine Oct 28 03:28:03 BruteSource, TI? I believe they already have them Oct 28 03:28:35 TI developed the DSP for the omap850 Oct 28 03:29:26 find out who their platform support guys were/are Oct 28 03:29:46 dsp? Oct 28 03:30:25 the OMAP850 contains two cores, an ARM926 application processor from ARM's family of ARM9E cores and a TI EDGE digital baseband chipset, the TCS3500 (an ARM7MCU coupled with Texas Instruments C54 DSP) Oct 28 03:30:59 yes i know Oct 28 03:31:21 why did ti write linux drivers for gsm? Oct 28 03:32:15 I said I beleive they have them, not that I know for a fact they do. the likelyhood is that they do, *IF ANYONE* Oct 28 03:32:54 the TI dsp deals with the gsm in that chip Oct 28 03:34:39 "TI is providing TCS3500 customers with a tested reference design to which it has already ported the most-popular operating systems, such as Java, Linux" Oct 28 03:34:53 yep, they have it Oct 28 03:35:14 here's your reference http://www.mdronline.com/publications/epw/issues/epw_170.html Oct 28 03:37:39 the question is if you can get someone at TI to provide the driver, officially or otherwise Oct 28 03:39:41 BruteSource: we did have gsm/gprs working. the code needs to be reviewed and cleaned up before we can release it (I don't think there are any IP issues, but it hasn't been scrubbed yet) and we'd actually want to get those devices booting again first Oct 28 03:40:44 swetland: hey, don't forget that you don't work for Google, so how would you know? Oct 28 03:41:24 (according to BruteSource that is) Oct 28 03:41:29 rwhitby: once again I am unmasked! Oct 28 03:42:58 BruteSource: just kidding - glad you're over the hangover now ;-) Oct 28 03:45:14 swetland: LIES Oct 28 03:45:21 no way you work for google Oct 28 03:45:55 oh man, come on guys Oct 28 03:46:02 never drunken dialed before Oct 28 03:46:14 its almost the same lol Oct 28 03:46:23 that's more like drunken tinhatting Oct 28 03:46:31 lmao Oct 28 03:46:59 We need an app that will make you do math problems before letting you dial, like we already have for Gmail Oct 28 03:47:12 obfuscation and deception everywhere, lie, Lies, LIES!! Oct 28 03:47:18 * Disconnect is better at math when drunk, does gmail have an inversion mode? :) Oct 28 03:47:29 swetland did you get pm? Oct 28 03:47:49 cbeust_, we need irc sanity checkers built in to cliendts :/ Oct 28 03:47:54 -d Oct 28 03:47:54 "what color purse is linsay lohan wearing this month?" <-- that would be your drunk question Oct 28 03:48:14 if your better at math when drunk, then you would be worse at questions like that :P Oct 28 03:48:53 "Which is the correct version of you're/your?" Oct 28 03:49:03 c) ur Oct 28 03:49:05 Not the one that was just used Oct 28 03:49:20 hey, my key doesnt work :P Oct 28 03:52:25 lol I never thought about a simple InputBox-Dialod in Android.. is there one? Oct 28 03:52:34 ...dialog Oct 28 03:54:06 plusminus_: you can setView() on an AlertDialog that has a textview with a surrounding FrameLayout to give it a margin Oct 28 03:54:16 also plusminus_ did you see my pizza feedback earlier? ;) Oct 28 03:54:42 damn you plusminus_ :P i just burnt my pizza Oct 28 03:54:43 hahaha Oct 28 03:54:54 im so hungry. stop it Oct 28 03:55:17 d03boy, did you see the horizontal scrolling box info? Oct 28 03:55:33 ya Oct 28 03:55:54 btw, someone just gave me the total munchies for an ice cream sandwich Oct 28 03:56:10 I have to decide now if I want a chipwich or traditional Oct 28 03:56:23 the stores that carry each are in opposite directions :/ Oct 28 03:56:56 umdk1d3: any chance we can have an option for ctrl-on-ralt or ctrl-on-search? ^^ Oct 28 03:57:14 swetland: the issue with using search is that its used for global hotkeys Oct 28 03:57:35 still have a lot of customization to do Oct 28 03:57:42 i still dont understand why ti would have omap850 linux drivers lol but i guess i wont Oct 28 03:57:44 could have all sorts of key options Oct 28 04:00:40 umdk1d3: just trying with FrameLayout? Oct 28 04:00:49 BruteSource, yeah.. the info I pasted to you explains it clearly. More clearly than I can explain it to ya. Oct 28 04:00:52 umdk1d3: your feedback was ? Oct 28 04:01:20 * languish facepalms Oct 28 04:01:21 jesus i think 60% of the apps on the marketplace are tip calculators Oct 28 04:01:50 wastrel, we're going with the BistroMath tip calc Oct 28 04:01:53 plusminus_: your timer stopped when the phone fell asleep normally Oct 28 04:01:53 lol Oct 28 04:02:07 my wife is the tip calculator :] Oct 28 04:02:09 aaaaand my pizza was, umm slightly brown Oct 28 04:02:09 no worries there Oct 28 04:02:23 had to many acronymns i didnt know in it Oct 28 04:02:31 wastrel, normally I'm the tip calc, but I've been known to err after a dozen drinks Oct 28 04:02:31 umdk1d3: really :-D sorry Oct 28 04:02:37 like saying ya gjgyjd is hgdu for udhfhf Oct 28 04:02:57 lol its okay ;) Oct 28 04:04:21 what % of tip do you guys give? Oct 28 04:04:55 easiest way to do it for me is to give either 15 or 20%. This can be done by moving the decimal over on teh final bill 1 spot. That will be 10%. Double the amount for 20%. etc.. Oct 28 04:05:10 careful there Oct 28 04:05:28 you're going to have a mob of angry tip calculator authors out for your blood if you spread that around Oct 28 04:05:39 <_< Oct 28 04:05:43 >_> Oct 28 04:06:45 heh Oct 28 04:06:47 how many tip calculators are we up to now? sigh Oct 28 04:07:01 I just multiply by the tax Oct 28 04:07:05 umdk1d3: how many barcode scanners? :) Oct 28 04:07:16 around here it's 7.5% ish so double = 15 % Oct 28 04:07:22 what is dsp? Oct 28 04:07:31 romainguy: touche ;) Oct 28 04:07:49 i just unwrapped my earphones Oct 28 04:07:53 I wish that not all the apps required GPS :) Oct 28 04:07:54 there's a mic on there eh? Oct 28 04:07:59 even todo lists ask for GPS :) Oct 28 04:08:28 BruteSource, digital signal processor, google it Oct 28 04:08:50 romainguy, i noticed that too Oct 28 04:08:50 er Oct 28 04:08:56 somebody forked the Email app Oct 28 04:09:04 I haven't seen the contributions back :(( Oct 28 04:09:32 some apps ask for contacts info access that have nothing to do with contacts :/ Oct 28 04:09:46 i hate when people say gole it or rtfm Oct 28 04:09:50 google Oct 28 04:10:02 if i could i would have lol Oct 28 04:10:03 I've seen some pretty funny reviews Oct 28 04:10:04 BruteSource, there's a reason forf it. You're not using your brain, or are being lazy. Oct 28 04:10:22 BruteSource, why can't you access google? Oct 28 04:10:22 "if you made this game shoot urself in the manhood with a potato launched so u won't ..." Oct 28 04:10:34 can you see me or my system, or what its capable of at the current moment? Oct 28 04:11:12 http://kingofgng.com/media/20080919_google_vs_microsoft.jpg Oct 28 04:11:14 cute ;) Oct 28 04:11:17 yes, so far, the two most entertaining things about the android experience have been BruteSource's random accusations, and the market apps feedback Oct 28 04:11:22 because i dont have a tabed browser on my phone, and im using my browser for something right now Oct 28 04:11:46 the browser can open multiple windows Oct 28 04:11:50 i have 3 pages typed on a blog Oct 28 04:11:53 * languish doesn't want to know.. just remember to use paper towels dude Oct 28 04:11:59 no opera mini cannot Oct 28 04:12:06 and i have no fee ram Oct 28 04:12:06 spikebike: loool where is that review? Oct 28 04:12:17 android store Oct 28 04:12:38 wow chuckle Oct 28 04:12:43 -> games Oct 28 04:12:51 -> sort by time Oct 28 04:12:55 top one Oct 28 04:13:02 Its kind of gay that as a registered vendor I cant even browse what apps are there. Oct 28 04:13:13 this device has quite the broad brush of users Oct 28 04:13:18 anyways thats circumstantial really, my point is dont say google it or rtfm as the person may not have the ability to, and he they did why would they ask anyways? Oct 28 04:13:38 BruteSource, because too many people are lazy Oct 28 04:13:41 Is there a bot for this channel that you can say stuff like !google foo and it will reply with a google link? Oct 28 04:13:44 still need some decent productivity apps, ebook reader, offline html viewer Oct 28 04:13:45 !bot Oct 28 04:13:50 so thats always the case? Oct 28 04:13:52 !google BruteSource Oct 28 04:13:55 note Oct 28 04:13:58 !install google bot Oct 28 04:13:59 &nope Oct 28 04:13:59 ;) Oct 28 04:14:38 RyeBrye, yes, jsut type /run http://google.com?q=foo Oct 28 04:14:45 lmao i love when a bunch of people who arent usually on irc all come together on irc all of the sudden Oct 28 04:15:01 wastral yeah, ebook would be a big one Oct 28 04:15:01 spikebike, oh fishocopter, yeah.. it's...umm.. lulz Oct 28 04:15:09 makes for a fun time Oct 28 04:15:32 I'm hoping for something maemo mapper like, with on device storage for when the net is out Oct 28 04:15:59 * RyeBrye has been on IRC since you all were babies at home, pooping your pants, and wiping crap all over your face Oct 28 04:16:50 i've been on irc since carter was president Oct 28 04:16:58 i was on bbs's with my 14k baud modem when most were still a twinkle in daddies eye Oct 28 04:17:10 wtf does amazon mp3 not work for me? Oct 28 04:17:15 needs wifi Oct 28 04:17:20 Age challenge? Oct 28 04:17:35 heh, I was on bitnet before irc existed Oct 28 04:17:46 wastrel: has it, you trys again now? Oct 28 04:17:49 i was on irc before irc existed Oct 28 04:17:56 IRC is a really poor substitute for BBS's or IM Oct 28 04:17:59 in Java, I would use sockets to connect to a server right? like an irc server Oct 28 04:18:01 there Oct 28 04:18:01 thats what my comment implied Oct 28 04:18:09 before irc and www was bbs Oct 28 04:18:29 actually that's bullshit, it's better Oct 28 04:18:45 what? Oct 28 04:18:46 Adamant, I disagree Oct 28 04:18:49 and if memory serves on irc before channels could have names Oct 28 04:18:56 whats bullshit? Oct 28 04:18:58 or maybe that was bitnet... memory is fading Oct 28 04:19:04 d03boy: maybe if you lived in a metro area Oct 28 04:19:07 OpenVirus, are you writing an irc client? Oct 28 04:19:24 but BBS's sucked otherwise except for nostalgia purposes Oct 28 04:19:34 d03boy, hey! well Im learning Java so I can start to make and IRC client for Android, I forgot you were doing it also Oct 28 04:19:37 lmao Oct 28 04:19:48 thats all there was Oct 28 04:20:00 yup, and now there's more Oct 28 04:20:05 d03boy, but ya I am going to try, unless you want me to help :) Oct 28 04:20:11 yiu could dial into someones elses box or a bbs Oct 28 04:20:31 does the android opensource drop include the google talk client? Oct 28 04:20:38 er I guess it's called the IM client Oct 28 04:20:42 OpenVirus, you can help if you want.. might be kind of hard to help unless you know Java though :) Oct 28 04:21:21 d03boy, ya, well thats the only way I am going to learn by having to make things :) how would you go about making one? Oct 28 04:21:21 what are you doing to learn java? Oct 28 04:21:30 trying to make a irc cleint Oct 28 04:21:43 i made a simple calculator, but thats it so far Oct 28 04:21:49 pm me Oct 28 04:21:52 all command line, no graphical interface Oct 28 04:21:54 ok Oct 28 04:22:32 why cant you use irssi via theterminal emulator? Oct 28 04:23:32 some people like gui and local apps Oct 28 04:23:40 or what if your shell server's down Oct 28 04:23:51 variety of reasons Oct 28 04:24:04 i mean locally Oct 28 04:24:09 should i use my main/android google account for google code, or a new one? Oct 28 04:24:28 BruteSource again, gui. not everyone's comfortable being a command line warrior Oct 28 04:24:51 wastrel, depends on how much random noise you want to deal with in your main account Oct 28 04:25:16 if your main gmail account is already all over the web, it won;t matter much more Oct 28 04:25:22 i like the sound of thay Oct 28 04:25:25 that Oct 28 04:25:36 commandline warrior Oct 28 04:26:07 my main gmail is new, just created for phone. and it's google apps custom domain Oct 28 04:26:18 so i can't even sign in to google code with it :] Oct 28 04:27:34 wastrel: not sure why you wouldn't use your main Oct 28 04:27:41 wastrel, yeah I had that same issue Oct 28 04:27:48 I use GAFYD too Oct 28 04:28:13 languish does android have ssh? Oct 28 04:28:32 BruteSource, connectbot Oct 28 04:28:53 it's an ssh/tunnel client Oct 28 04:28:55 cbeust_: spam being my principal concern Oct 28 04:28:56 heh, I just noticed Oct 28 04:29:00 connectbot... never heard of that Oct 28 04:29:10 gtalk makes a cute little android icon besides your buddies that are on g1s Oct 28 04:29:15 Spam is not really an issue on gmail Oct 28 04:29:22 so it can be just a normal cli ssh client? Oct 28 04:29:32 hah for me it is Oct 28 04:29:43 You're receiving spam on your gmail account? Oct 28 04:29:49 i get lots of spam onmy gmail account Oct 28 04:29:59 ya about 12 a day Oct 28 04:30:11 I receive 100+ every day, they all land in my spam label Oct 28 04:30:13 damn dude Oct 28 04:30:14 I'd actually like to get a nice Android logo sticker for the back of my G1 Oct 28 04:30:14 never see themin my inbox Oct 28 04:30:20 they all seem to b about me being eligible for a 1500 dollar payday loan Oct 28 04:30:34 man.. Oct 28 04:30:37 do you report them all as spam? Oct 28 04:31:01 I have a very public gmail account, the only span that gets through is in chinese Oct 28 04:31:25 yes i report them as spam everyday Oct 28 04:31:30 i get several hundred a day at work Oct 28 04:31:48 gmails spam filter is good but not perfect Oct 28 04:31:59 there is no perfect filter Oct 28 04:32:07 about 80% are caught in our spamfilter Oct 28 04:32:40 spammers adapt just like the people who make the filters adapt Oct 28 04:32:49 its a never ending battle Oct 28 04:33:23 it helps alot to have a junkmail account only used for online registrations Oct 28 04:33:26 I get tons of spam on my gmail account Oct 28 04:33:32 Oh... Should I purge my account before I set up my G1? Oct 28 04:33:32 fishcopter randomly opens a url after the game ends.. without user intervention. I wonder if the dev just really need smore time to squash bugs, or is trying to point people at an exploit Oct 28 04:33:44 my gmail inbox currently has 3657 messages in it Oct 28 04:34:14 and the "all mail" section of the IMAP (which includes archives?) has 40226 messages Oct 28 04:34:23 I would hate to even download headers for all those messages to the phone Oct 28 04:34:43 BruteSource: that junkmail account is my original gmail acct :] Oct 28 04:36:32 RyeBrye: if you don't purge, change the sync settings to "Sync recent" instead of "Sync all" for your inbox :) Oct 28 04:36:39 Ok, that's good to know Oct 28 04:36:50 my G1 comes Wednesday Oct 28 04:39:36 evening Oct 28 04:42:37 :/ Oct 28 04:43:37 i remember getting gmail way early in the beta days and registering lots of comon names thinking they would be rare when it got popular Oct 28 04:43:47 So i've managed to get /dev/android and can mount the flash drive with udev Oct 28 04:44:06 and it (in debian etch) auto mounts the disk: Oct 28 04:44:09 /dev/android on /media/usbdisk type vfat (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,quiet,shortname=mixed,uid=1000,gid=1000,umask=077,iocharset=utf8) Oct 28 04:44:10 sean kenny samantha kim allan etc. @gmail.com Oct 28 04:44:30 only to have them all repod by google Oct 28 04:44:45 good for google Oct 28 04:44:51 srsly Oct 28 04:44:58 BruteSource wtf Oct 28 04:45:05 wht? Oct 28 04:45:11 Sadly, once I've done this, I don't seem to ever be able to attach to the android physical device with adb Oct 28 04:45:17 what? it was like 10 accounts Oct 28 04:45:23 Is there something totally wacky going on? Oct 28 04:45:26 the mindset man Oct 28 04:45:34 You're just, wrong. Oct 28 04:45:37 :/ Oct 28 04:45:42 the mindset? Oct 28 04:45:44 Does anyone else get an error when adding the Android repo into Eclipse in Ubuntu? Oct 28 04:45:50 i wasnt going to sell them Oct 28 04:45:56 n/m not worth it Oct 28 04:46:08 oki bedtime Oct 28 04:46:09 i knew people with those names Oct 28 04:46:11 o/ Oct 28 04:46:20 lol i dont see the big deal Oct 28 04:46:40 im just glad i got to keep the one with my name Oct 28 04:47:08 Anyone? Oct 28 04:47:34 BHSPitMonkey, not my area of expertise, but it might help if you stated the error you're getting Oct 28 04:48:17 Can someone explain to me how adb actually communicates over usb? Oct 28 04:48:21 No repository found at https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ Error reading update site https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/. Unconnected sockets not implemented Oct 28 04:49:41 BHSPitMonkey, try it with http:// not https Oct 28 04:50:28 oh Oct 28 04:50:31 BHSPitMonkey.. Oct 28 04:50:44 languish, showoff. Oct 28 04:51:05 What was the second highlight for? (It worked, by the way) Oct 28 04:51:14 ahh it worked, good Oct 28 04:51:31 n/m if it worked, had a second suggestion Oct 28 04:52:31 seems sometimes adding a space after the url caused an issue, so going to the end of the url and deleting(backspacing) over any "spaces" worked for some people Oct 28 04:53:21 just glad you got it working :) Oct 28 04:58:15 lol Oct 28 04:59:06 o.O Oct 28 05:02:18 so hows the market treating you languish ? Oct 28 05:02:33 amusingly Oct 28 05:02:42 I'm enjoying reading the comments Oct 28 05:02:47 * BHSPitMonkey treats languish amusingly Oct 28 05:02:52 Hey baby, I just saw your photo and I've gotta say nice pigmented fibrovascular tissue connecting your sphincter pupillae illuminated sparkingly by the aqueous humour setting off the iris pigment epithelium beautifully Oct 28 05:02:54 err Oct 28 05:02:57 wrong channel Oct 28 05:03:00 :/ Oct 28 05:03:06 wow Oct 28 05:03:08 REALLY wrong channel Oct 28 05:03:11 pervert Oct 28 05:03:22 it's geek for "nice eyes" Oct 28 05:03:27 specifically, the irises Oct 28 05:03:50 NO IT'S NOT I HEARD 'SPHINCTER' Oct 28 05:03:54 yes Oct 28 05:04:08 the tissue in the iris is a sphincter muscle Oct 28 05:04:31 LIES, I LEARNED THE WORD ON "WAYNE'S WORLD" Oct 28 05:04:48 All right, I'm done with the caps Oct 28 05:06:52 One thing that's strange is that adb keeps trying to open /dev/bus/usb/001 Oct 28 05:07:04 Rather, /dev/bus/usb/001/001 Oct 28 05:07:18 ioerror: the sources for adb are included in the distribution Oct 28 05:07:25 there are some verbose-debug macros in there that might be useful Oct 28 05:07:35 I think it's linux_usb.c Oct 28 05:07:41 in the sdk? Oct 28 05:07:48 No, in the open-source git stuff. Oct 28 05:08:03 Ah, I don't have enough disk space to download much more on this machine :-( Oct 28 05:08:09 Hrm. Oct 28 05:09:55 It's quite strange, it's as if its gone from the usb tree at times. Oct 28 05:09:57 system/core/adb/usb_linux.c is the one Oct 28 05:11:54 Is there any way, directly or indirectly, of using python code on android? Oct 28 05:12:28 hrm, I see with strace that it opens /dev/bus/usb and then iterates over things Oct 28 05:12:40 (I'm sure in a technical sense it is, since we're working with linux here; I just have no idea about what stance Google takes regarding the market and all) Oct 28 05:12:47 ioerror: if you pull that file out of the git repository you can see the source logic Oct 28 05:12:51 s/it is/there is/ Oct 28 05:12:51 BHSPitMonkey meant: (I'm sure in a technical sense there is, since we're working with linux here; I just have no idea about what stance Google takes regarding the market and all) Oct 28 05:12:56 it then opens /dev/bus/usb/005 Oct 28 05:13:02 (use the web viewer) Oct 28 05:13:05 fadden, link? Oct 28 05:13:08 infobot, uh ,thanks! Oct 28 05:13:35 ne way to logout to the eclipse console when using the android emulator? Oct 28 05:13:47 ah, got it Oct 28 05:14:14 It's easy to find stuff there once you have the full path. Without that it's sort of a grind. :-) Oct 28 05:16:08 Huh, I see the issue and it's unrelated to the source Oct 28 05:16:15 the device is properly setup with udev Oct 28 05:16:21 it mounts /dev/android all right Oct 28 05:16:30 But now the device doesn't show up in lsusb at all Oct 28 05:16:53 Rather, the usb charging icon isn't even going on the phone Oct 28 05:18:28 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/10/28/g1-themes-help-sidekick-users-cope-with-feelings-of-inadequacy/ Oct 28 05:18:29 hahaha Oct 28 05:18:33 When I disable to udev rule (http://pastebin.com/d787f6371) Oct 28 05:18:42 The device shows up again with lsusb Oct 28 05:19:09 and *now* the device is there: List of devices attached Oct 28 05:19:09 HT842GZ39778 device Oct 28 05:19:20 However, the usb disk is now no longer mounting Oct 28 05:19:36 and of course, /dev/android (as expected) is gone Oct 28 05:23:59 That's pretty bizarre. Oct 28 05:24:04 Yes, it's totaly wacky. Oct 28 05:24:10 So now I've got a shell. Oct 28 05:24:38 So I'm pretty confused as to how the hell that works. I guess it's directly writing to some /dev/bus/usb stuff, rather than a specifically configured block device (via udev) Oct 28 05:25:03 It would be useful if adb could just force a device once it's been configured with udev Oct 28 05:25:40 what the hell... Oct 28 05:25:49 arm joined the symbian foundation Oct 28 05:25:51 the -d switch is confusing like that Oct 28 05:26:09 way to turn your back on customers arm Oct 28 05:26:25 hrm, I guess the next question is: "how can i cross compile c programs for android?" Oct 28 05:26:30 ioerror: "-d" and "-e" are only interesting when a device is connected and the emulator is running at the same time Oct 28 05:26:40 fadden, right, I learned that :-) Oct 28 05:26:44 It used to just pick one by default. Oct 28 05:26:51 do you create a branch, to browse android sources? Oct 28 05:27:06 After several episodes of head-banging caused by not accessing the intended device, we decided to make it so that adb would refuse to do anything if ambiguity existed. Oct 28 05:27:44 muthu: I don't believe you need a branch just to poke at them Oct 28 05:27:52 s/poke/peek/ Oct 28 05:27:52 fadden0 meant: muthu: I don't believe you need a branch just to peek at them Oct 28 05:28:17 fadden0, i didn't find that source file Oct 28 05:28:24 Which one? Oct 28 05:28:27 if you link me, I'll look at writing a patch to explictly force a given device :-) Oct 28 05:28:31 linux_usb Oct 28 05:29:16 http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/system/core.git;a=tree;f=adb;h=dc18f2554fb32398e5ce007d38baa4046b43809b;hb=HEAD Oct 28 05:30:11 Please note that the last couple of people who tried to modify ADB were driven permanently insane by the experience. Oct 28 05:30:23 I did modify adb once Oct 28 05:30:29 hrm, is it that bad? Oct 28 05:30:34 I mean, using git is bad enough ;-) Oct 28 05:30:35 but my mind has already been driven insane by ListView Oct 28 05:30:58 The sources are for both device and host, with some parts overlapping and some not. It works on Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X. Oct 28 05:31:03 fadden0: thx, was wondering about the junk that the ide creates Oct 28 05:31:09 fadden: and it deals with USB :p Oct 28 05:34:03 hello ~ Oct 28 05:34:09 hi Oct 28 05:34:17 i am beginnner. i have a question Oct 28 05:34:27 how can i use Timer using event loop ? Oct 28 05:36:02 i cant find event loop related API. Oct 28 05:41:05 is there a Location Provider that uses cell id? Oct 28 05:42:27 hello guys i have quick question Oct 28 05:43:24 who porting GPE to s3c2410? Oct 28 05:43:27 anyone . Oct 28 05:43:36 i am planning to port the android kernel to a specific board, so while porting what are the changes which i have to make in android code specific to the board? Oct 28 05:44:56 i know that there is userspace Hardware Abstraction Layer in android to avoid the GPL issue with Linux kernel Oct 28 05:45:36 f00f: LocationManager.NETWORK_PROVIDER docs state it uses cell and wifi points for location Oct 28 05:45:47 thats why i asked what specific changes i have to make in the android source code specific to the board in order to make things work out Oct 28 05:45:55 anyone in China? Oct 28 05:47:28 thanks tsunami i will take a closer look Oct 28 05:47:59 anyone know GPE? Oct 28 05:48:52 i know GPE. but never use it Oct 28 05:49:44 ok i've created a hello world application for the second time after 3 months and it runs int he simulator. now how do i transfer it to my phone? Oct 28 05:49:58 i've been searching forums for maybe an hour and no luck =/ Oct 28 05:53:18 anyone know qt or gtk? i confuse android app's event loop. Oct 28 05:53:51 app can access or use event loop of main thread ? Oct 28 05:55:15 exman: no, you don't get access to the event loop Oct 28 05:55:21 but all the UI code is invoked from that loop Oct 28 05:55:41 romainguy, thankyou Oct 28 05:55:49 Bonkz: if you're using Eclipse, just plug in your phone (enable USB debugging in the settings first) and run your app Oct 28 05:55:56 otherwise, use adb install yourapp.apk Oct 28 05:57:00 romainguy, if i want use simple timer, i must add thread using Sleep ? Oct 28 05:57:09 you can do this Oct 28 05:57:11 or better yet Oct 28 05:57:14 use the built-in timers Oct 28 05:57:17 like java.util.Timer Oct 28 05:57:27 or Handler.sendMessageDelayed() Oct 28 05:57:30 oh good information. Oct 28 05:57:30 or View.postDelayed() Oct 28 05:57:36 ? Oct 28 05:57:39 the last two are the preferred way to do it Oct 28 05:57:42 romainguy: thanks i got it. also had to install usb drivers Oct 28 05:57:42 because they work on the UI thread Oct 28 05:58:11 thankyou thankyou~ Oct 28 05:59:36 i am not java programmer. so i really confused.. thank you so much Oct 28 05:59:59 one more question... Oct 28 06:00:21 how can i use select or poll ? Oct 28 06:00:32 look at java.io and java.nio Oct 28 06:00:42 is it java style? Oct 28 06:00:50 what do you mean? Oct 28 06:01:15 i was find some java code. but they use thread for socket read. Oct 28 06:01:28 then look at java.nio Oct 28 06:01:43 thankyou.~ Oct 28 06:02:31 does anyone port GPE? Oct 28 06:05:34 what the good way for pass data between activities? Oct 28 06:05:51 i tested sendBroadcast with intent Oct 28 06:05:54 exman: packing extras into the intent you send Oct 28 06:06:09 and startActivityForResult if you need to return data Oct 28 06:06:17 i am planning to port the android kernel to a specific board, so while porting what are the changes which i have to make in android code specific to the board? i know that there is userspace Hardware Abstraction Layer in android to avoid the GPL issue with Linux kernel Oct 28 06:06:43 thats why i asked what specific changes i have to make in the android source code specific to the board in order to make things work out Oct 28 06:06:53 sujith,are you here? Oct 28 06:07:00 umdk1d3, if target activity already started, can i use startActivityForResult ? Oct 28 06:07:59 yes , hongjiujing any props? Oct 28 06:07:59 what's the next tutorial I should do after the Hello, Android app? I was previewing the notepad app on google but are there any other tutorial which has a difficulty between that and the hello android app? i do have programming experience, but in C#.NET Oct 28 06:08:29 sujith,where are you form ? Oct 28 06:08:31 are you from ? Oct 28 06:11:16 not from china :) Oct 28 06:13:37 o. Oct 28 06:13:49 i can give you some material about android Oct 28 06:13:59 do you have MSN? Oct 28 06:15:11 hong could i see some of that material? Oct 28 06:16:05 ? Oct 28 06:16:11 whats MSN? Oct 28 06:16:20 he he Oct 28 06:16:33 I am in China Oct 28 06:17:02 ok Oct 28 06:17:10 what's MSN? Oct 28 06:17:26 oh,my god Oct 28 06:17:30 www.msn.com Oct 28 06:17:34 lol Oct 28 06:17:51 oooooooooooooh god this MSN Oct 28 06:17:55 hehehehehhe Oct 28 06:18:15 i thought its something specific to android lol Oct 28 06:19:28 he he he Oct 28 06:19:30 ok can you give me those materials Oct 28 06:19:35 i wanna see those Oct 28 06:19:46 if will be good if you send me those Oct 28 06:20:13 http://www.loveandroid.com/index.php Oct 28 06:20:16 access it , Oct 28 06:20:22 but Chinese Oct 28 06:20:32 translation must be there Oct 28 06:20:37 from google Oct 28 06:21:22 he he Oct 28 06:22:33 so which part to lokk for hongjiujing? Oct 28 06:22:40 ook* Oct 28 06:22:53 http://htcunlock.net/ hey does anyone know if those guys are scammers or can you actually get an unlock code from them? Oct 28 06:23:23 sujith: so which part to lokk for hongjiujing? Oct 28 06:23:25 what ? Oct 28 06:24:15 i mean you send me one link Oct 28 06:24:30 in that which part i is specific to me? Oct 28 06:24:51 you want ? Oct 28 06:25:08 you know what i am asking for right? Oct 28 06:25:23 i am planning to port the android kernel to a specific board, so while porting what are the changes which i have to make in android code specific to the board? Oct 28 06:25:36 tart board is ? Oct 28 06:25:39 mcu is what? Oct 28 06:25:42 s3c6400 Oct 28 06:26:16 my god Oct 28 06:26:20 i am use S3C6400 Oct 28 06:26:22 what? Oct 28 06:26:25 ha h a Oct 28 06:26:30 hey g8 Oct 28 06:26:36 my company is doing MID Oct 28 06:26:41 by S3C6400 Oct 28 06:26:43 ooh Oct 28 06:26:53 can you guide me regarding this Oct 28 06:26:58 ? Oct 28 06:27:47 you must find android website in your country Oct 28 06:27:55 i have it Oct 28 06:27:58 o Oct 28 06:28:21 see android sites are accessible here Oct 28 06:28:42 what i need is the proper steps to port the android on s3c6400 Oct 28 06:29:07 as you have done it you can guide me through this process Oct 28 06:30:06 android use ARMV5T? Oct 28 06:30:21 ARM v6 Oct 28 06:31:07 o Oct 28 06:31:25 you should build android develop environment Oct 28 06:31:31 and emulator Oct 28 06:31:42 that all i have Oct 28 06:32:00 i already downloaded the latest android source code from git Oct 28 06:32:06 o Oct 28 06:32:10 where are you ? Oct 28 06:32:10 and built it and ran it in emulator] Oct 28 06:32:14 o Oct 28 06:32:26 just test it by nfs root Oct 28 06:32:45 noo we can't do it directly like this Oct 28 06:32:57 we have to make some changes to suit the board Oct 28 06:33:18 yes Oct 28 06:33:26 need kernel knowledge Oct 28 06:33:27 as i said android has a user space hardware abstraction layer of its own Oct 28 06:33:41 o Oct 28 06:33:57 which differentiates it from linux kernel to avoid the GPL problem Oct 28 06:34:07 http://www.loveandroid.com/viewthread.php?tid=94&extra=page%3D1 Oct 28 06:34:11 look at it Oct 28 06:35:07 first of all hongjiujing i am not able understand chinese Oct 28 06:35:14 the page you sent is chinese Oct 28 06:35:27 google have no translation for it Oct 28 06:35:29 http://benno.id.au/blog/ Oct 28 06:35:36 just watch video Oct 28 06:36:21 ok Oct 28 06:38:46 http://benno.id.au/blog/ ,benno is a hacker Oct 28 06:43:45 sujith,where are you ?your company is ? Oct 28 06:47:17 I am a student Oct 28 06:47:34 cs? Oct 28 06:47:35 and its a part of my academic project Oct 28 06:47:37 ee? Oct 28 06:48:26 which country Oct 28 06:49:26 can you guide me through the porting porcess hongjiujing? Oct 28 06:49:45 yuo had already ported the android to s3c6400 Oct 28 06:50:06 so you must be an expert in it now Oct 28 06:50:32 whats a s36400? Oct 28 06:51:02 no Oct 28 06:51:16 i have no porting android to s3c6400 Oct 28 06:51:43 porting is not hard,the difficult is testing Oct 28 06:51:46 and modify Oct 28 06:51:59 yeah i need guidance regarding that Oct 28 06:52:29 beacuse for porting android to board you need to make some board specific changes Oct 28 06:52:38 BruteSource: it's a samsung cpu Oct 28 06:52:39 thats where i got stuck Oct 28 06:52:40 arm1176 Oct 28 06:52:51 dealt with it before, it's not too bad Oct 28 06:52:59 :) Oct 28 06:53:32 sujith: you really need to know the board and the cpu pretty well Oct 28 06:53:42 i am stuck at this point regarding android userspace kernel Oct 28 06:53:46 you'll have to tweak things like pin settings, voltage settings Oct 28 06:53:50 hmm i will dig into it Oct 28 06:53:56 which peripheral is attached to what Oct 28 06:54:15 but for the time being i need proper steps for porting the android on to this board Oct 28 06:54:21 and get this thing done Oct 28 06:54:43 i dont think there are proper steps Oct 28 06:54:51 you either know how to do it and then go about doing it Oct 28 06:54:56 or you have to figure it out Oct 28 06:55:00 any modifications needed in the android source code? Oct 28 06:55:25 probably Oct 28 06:55:59 sujith ,i wanna go Oct 28 06:56:14 thats where i got stuck i need to know what are all the changes which i have to make in the source code to make it run on that board Oct 28 06:56:20 see you .my msn :hongjiujing@hotmail.com Oct 28 06:56:33 ok hongjiujing nice talking to you Oct 28 06:56:46 you can add me as your msn friend Oct 28 06:56:56 i have a gmail id you can ping me at sujit2405@gmail.com Oct 28 06:56:56 and i reconfirm Oct 28 06:57:11 sorry buddy i have no hotmail id Oct 28 06:57:16 if you have gmail Oct 28 06:57:22 then that wil be better Oct 28 06:57:59 i have set your email Oct 28 06:58:06 ok g8 Oct 28 06:58:09 my mail id is hongjiujing@126.com Oct 28 06:58:18 ok Oct 28 06:58:48 so geist: do you have any porting android experience? Oct 28 06:59:12 if you had just share with us that will be a g8 help to new comers like us Oct 28 07:00:49 i searched the entire android related sites, videos and forums but nowhere anything is mentioned about the changes in the android code for specific target Oct 28 07:00:56 i tried to help but i have never heard of your device, is it pxa, msm, xscale, omap? Oct 28 07:03:21 sprint just said they aren't going to have android for a while... what sprint phone should I get to put android on? or should I wait for a better device? Oct 28 07:03:47 good luck getting radio working :S Oct 28 07:03:53 sprint said that a while a go Oct 28 07:03:59 nesoi that's standard practice for a company who does't have a product ready yet Oct 28 07:04:03 it was in the news yesterday Oct 28 07:04:10 we aren't in that market yet, so by default that market isn't ready Oct 28 07:04:15 spikebike, nah, they had said end of 4q or beginning of 1q Oct 28 07:04:22 right Oct 28 07:04:24 now they say "android's not ready" Oct 28 07:04:26 ya no one has got radio working on anydevice for android yet, besides dream of course Oct 28 07:04:38 dream? Oct 28 07:04:48 brute oh? Oct 28 07:05:03 why? the mfg don't provide enough documentation? Oct 28 07:05:06 dream is the g1 Oct 28 07:05:08 I saw zillions of videos on youtube (just google for "android on") Oct 28 07:05:15 lmao dream is the first device to have android on it... tmobile calls it a g1 Oct 28 07:05:16 I didn't realize none used the radio Oct 28 07:05:37 well none have the release version + radio Oct 28 07:05:38 how does dream compare to touch diamond pro? Oct 28 07:05:44 that i know of Oct 28 07:05:50 sujith: i have experience in that sort of thing but i really shouldn't port android Oct 28 07:05:57 its faster, has more, ram, and more rom Oct 28 07:06:01 nesoi there's a zillion g1 reviews out there Oct 28 07:06:10 dream is faster than touch diamond pro? Oct 28 07:06:31 msm7201a Oct 28 07:06:32 yeah, but I don't want to switch to t-mobile. no reception in my house, etc. Oct 28 07:06:48 the 7200 is a reasonably quick cpu Oct 28 07:06:55 fastest mobile processesor in a phone i believe Oct 28 07:06:59 it's an arm11, so it's almost the fastest set of arms you can get Oct 28 07:07:12 nesoi seems like there should be a few options in the next 2 quarters or so Oct 28 07:07:14 there are some cortex based cpus out there, but none have made it into a fone yet Oct 28 07:07:40 dream is faster than touch diamond pro? you're sure? Oct 28 07:07:44 i have heard rumors of a 1ghz dual core xscale coming Oct 28 07:08:03 from marvell? not sure about that Oct 28 07:08:08 nesoi what did we just say? it has the faster proc in a phone out there Oct 28 07:08:17 well, not really Oct 28 07:08:18 fastest Oct 28 07:08:24 yes really lmao Oct 28 07:08:25 there are quite a few arm11s out there running about that speed Oct 28 07:08:36 ya and none of them faster Oct 28 07:08:47 well.... Oct 28 07:08:56 yeah, but it's all about the same Oct 28 07:09:08 the msm cpu isn't a real super fast one Oct 28 07:09:12 okay? Oct 28 07:09:18 but it's pretty respectable Oct 28 07:09:31 it's within 2x or so of the fastest arm11s Oct 28 07:09:35 so it's up there Oct 28 07:09:35 well benchmark tests disagree, what would you like me to say? Oct 28 07:09:42 oh? Oct 28 07:09:47 * geist chuckles Oct 28 07:10:01 im not in the mood to argue with a troll, ignire is my friend Oct 28 07:10:03 whatever you want, man Oct 28 07:10:08 ignore even Oct 28 07:10:18 i'm not saying it sucks or anything Oct 28 07:10:28 just it's not that special as far as cpus are concerned Oct 28 07:10:39 i've had to deal with this same cpu for other projects, and it's mostly a nightmare Oct 28 07:10:55 but it's really a testamont to android that they got something so nice out of it Oct 28 07:10:55 more cpu + more ram = faster, period. Oct 28 07:11:07 sure, but there are faster cpus out there Oct 28 07:11:08 heh Oct 28 07:11:13 some of which are in products Oct 28 07:11:31 not saying it sucks == mostly a nightmare? Oct 28 07:11:33 but like i said, android did a great job with what they got Oct 28 07:11:44 mostly a nightmare is for other reasons Oct 28 07:11:49 dealing with the radio, specifically Oct 28 07:11:56 please show me a faster proc in a phone than msm7201a please? Oct 28 07:12:02 who gives a shit Oct 28 07:12:09 that's kind of my feeling Oct 28 07:12:11 according to what I'm seeing online, the dream and touch diamond pro both have the same CPU and 528Mhz clock rate Oct 28 07:12:21 BruteSource, do you have different info? any URL? Oct 28 07:12:34 it's a compliment to android Oct 28 07:12:41 they did a lot with a relatively ho hum cpu Oct 28 07:13:03 i didnt say it had a slower proc, i said its faster because it has more ram Oct 28 07:13:18 i wish someone would port android to my axim x51 so i could play with it :( Oct 28 07:13:29 usually the limiting factors these sort of things is the design of the memory bus Oct 28 07:13:34 that thing has been in a cabinet for over a year Oct 28 07:13:44 how fast you can drive sdram, what the wait states are, etc Oct 28 07:13:50 dark is it xscale? Oct 28 07:14:22 pxa250 it seems Oct 28 07:14:27 i had one lol just dont remember Oct 28 07:14:34 aw Oct 28 07:15:01 yeah, older pxas are no fun Oct 28 07:15:08 well i only know about porting to omap850 Oct 28 07:15:20 yes BruteSource Oct 28 07:15:20 and no idea about radio Oct 28 07:15:31 oh it is xscale? Oct 28 07:15:31 good ole 850 Oct 28 07:15:40 that was a good one Oct 28 07:15:42 BruteSource, I'm seeing that touch diamond pro has 512MB of RAM and ROM and the dream has 128MB Oct 28 07:15:48 or do you have a better source? Oct 28 07:16:10 you sure about that nesoi ? Oct 28 07:16:16 touch pro has 512mb ram? Oct 28 07:16:19 just what I'm reading online Oct 28 07:16:23 i doubt that Oct 28 07:16:33 phonescoop doesnt agree lol Oct 28 07:16:35 go to pdadb.(com|net) and they will have the info Oct 28 07:16:37 i dont think the 7200 supports that much ram Oct 28 07:16:46 iirc, it maxes out at 128MB Oct 28 07:16:48 it doesnt lol Oct 28 07:17:05 later revisions of the cpu (7225, etc) support more Oct 28 07:17:15 51x102x18.05mm, Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional , 32bit Qualcomm MSM7501A, 528MHz CPU, 256MiB RAM, 512MiB ROM, 2.8" 480x640 color transflective TFT display, video out, Proprietary audio jack, CDMA800/CDMA1900, cdmaOne, CDMA2000 1xRTT, CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Rel. 0, CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Rev A, microSD/microSDHC/TransFlash/SDIO, mini-USB port, Bluetooth, WLAN, GPS, A-GPS, QuickGPS, FM radio, Slide-out QWERTY-type keyboard, scroll wheel, Oct 28 07:17:15 accelerometer, 3.1MP camera, AF, flash, secondary camera, Oct 28 07:17:25 yeah, 256MB Oct 28 07:17:33 512mb ROM Oct 28 07:17:36 but 256 ram Oct 28 07:17:44 right Oct 28 07:17:46 still, seems better in most regards Oct 28 07:17:47 he doesnt know the difference between ram and rom Oct 28 07:17:53 here it says 288MB RAM, 512MB ROM http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_touch_pro-2413.php Oct 28 07:17:56 he prob read it wrong or the site was wrong Oct 28 07:17:57 but that's a GSM version Oct 28 07:18:09 why do we have to be dicks to each other? Oct 28 07:18:14 the 288 is almost assuredly because they added the basedband ram to the 256 Oct 28 07:18:16 why would anyone use cdma? Oct 28 07:18:23 if you dont want to argue, then dont Oct 28 07:18:31 7200 has a seperate sdram bank for baseband cpu Oct 28 07:18:34 BruteSource, don't be an idiot. I was the CTO of an internet company. Don't know ROM from RAM... dumbass Oct 28 07:18:45 7225 runs both from the same bank Oct 28 07:18:49 but supporst more (256MB) Oct 28 07:19:00 your the one who sad it has 512 ram Oct 28 07:19:18 and what does .com business have to do with ram vs rom? Oct 28 07:19:25 so the 288 is 256 + 32 Oct 28 07:19:39 51x102x18.05mm, 165g, Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional , 32bit Qualcomm MSM7201A, 528MHz CPU, 288MiB RAM, 512MiB ROM, 2.8" 480x640 color transflective TFT display, video out, Proprietary audio jack, Oct 28 07:19:41 288 there Oct 28 07:19:48 same device, different model Oct 28 07:19:53 I was quoting what I read on some site Oct 28 07:20:00 they said 512MB of both Oct 28 07:20:01 and a 3rd model: Oct 28 07:20:01 58x99.9x13.9mm, 112g, Microsoft Windows Mobile 6 Professional , 32bit Texas Instruments OMAP 850, 201MHz CPU, 128MiB RAM, 256MiB ROM, 2.8" 240x320 color transflective TFT display, Proprietary audio jack, Oct 28 07:20:18 * geist wonders why this matters? Oct 28 07:20:21 omap diamond? Oct 28 07:20:21 wait, last one is the "touch" not "touch pro" Oct 28 07:20:23 if knowing ROM from RAM isn't among the requirements of being a CTO of a tech company, something is really wrong Oct 28 07:20:50 hardware has nothing to do with a .com Oct 28 07:20:54 so, based on those specs, is the dream faster or much faster than the touch pro? Oct 28 07:21:01 unless thay have there own web ervers lmao Oct 28 07:21:04 same thing Oct 28 07:21:06 trying to figure out if android will run well on it if and when it's ported Oct 28 07:21:14 same cpu, touch pro hs more ram. that's it Oct 28 07:21:18 same thing with the treo pro Oct 28 07:21:19 ok, good Oct 28 07:21:26 the dream has slightly more ram, so its barely faster Oct 28 07:21:27 so now I can forget about believing anything BruteSource has to say Oct 28 07:21:46 nesoi, stop embaressing yourself Oct 28 07:22:00 BruteSource, I'm not the one who can't spell Oct 28 07:22:22 anyway, my experience has been that the omap2430, another arm11 in a similar category, is somewhat faster than the msm cpus, since it has a much nicer memory bus Oct 28 07:22:29 it also has better ril and radio firmware i hear Oct 28 07:22:31 but they're within 20 or 30% of each other Oct 28 07:22:41 cortex based cpus, however, mostly stomp the arm11s Oct 28 07:23:00 geist, you seem to know what you're talking about... are there any devices coming soon that would be better for android (if ported) than touch pro? Oct 28 07:23:02 dont think oneof those has shown up in a fone yet, though Oct 28 07:23:08 what devices are omap2430? Oct 28 07:23:08 I'm pretty sure porting will happen Oct 28 07:23:24 BruteSource: n8xx, treo 800w Oct 28 07:23:29 i think some other ones Oct 28 07:23:38 ya but cortex hs no real world applications in the phone world yet Oct 28 07:23:44 it's a much more traditional arm11, fully documented, since its a TI think Oct 28 07:23:46 hi! does somebody knows how to make a debug target in android from source code Oct 28 07:23:55 and linux already runs great on it Oct 28 07:24:01 i thought treo was xscale Oct 28 07:24:09 nope Oct 28 07:24:10 or maybe that was centro Oct 28 07:24:20 palm switches around Oct 28 07:24:31 i hate palms os Oct 28 07:24:33 treo 800w is an omap2430, treo pro is a msm7201a Oct 28 07:24:47 geist, you seem to know what you're talking about... are there any devices coming soon that would be better for android (if ported) than touch pro? Oct 28 07:24:56 treo pro seems like an ideal device for a android port ;-) Oct 28 07:24:58 yes Oct 28 07:25:05 quit repeating yourself Oct 28 07:25:15 which ones geist ? Oct 28 07:25:26 sounds like someones been drinking again Oct 28 07:25:31 as far s kernel goes but i dunno about the radio Oct 28 07:25:46 I have to disclose myself before getting too much farther: I work for palm Oct 28 07:25:57 naw i just dont like trolls, they annoy me Oct 28 07:26:05 you were one the other night Oct 28 07:26:09 we didnt treat you like shit Oct 28 07:26:11 which is why i know what's in the treos Oct 28 07:26:15 interesting Oct 28 07:26:21 especially when the dont know hat they are talking about Oct 28 07:26:24 so geist what about an android port to palm hardware? Oct 28 07:26:24 well he is now Oct 28 07:26:28 you didnt know what you were talking about Oct 28 07:26:30 the er touch HD has a bigger screen and more flash/ram, not sure how similar the hardware is though Oct 28 07:26:32 nesoi: should be easy Oct 28 07:26:35 "you are fake google devs" Oct 28 07:26:41 yes but i was drinking Oct 28 07:26:43 "i sent you an email and you cant respond" Oct 28 07:26:45 geist, does palm supply enough docs to get everything working? Oct 28 07:26:49 so fucking waht, chill out Oct 28 07:27:01 nesoi: no, but i'm sure someone will figure it out Oct 28 07:27:11 if he comes in tomorow with a hangover and apologizes ill forgive him Oct 28 07:27:15 800w would be super easy, it's just an omap Oct 28 07:27:21 which is fully publically documented Oct 28 07:27:22 dark chill dude Oct 28 07:27:27 interesting Oct 28 07:27:31 isomeone probably already has linux on it Oct 28 07:27:50 treo pro, guess that'd be easy too, since it's the same cpu as the G1 Oct 28 07:27:59 but the baseband firmware is liekly different Oct 28 07:28:08 and thus not really easy to get linux running Oct 28 07:28:11 easy is good, gets your foot in the door and gets people interested Oct 28 07:28:19 since on msm cpus you can't seperate the two Oct 28 07:28:38 palm isn't going that direction though? Oct 28 07:28:46 no comment Oct 28 07:28:50 ;) Oct 28 07:29:06 on that or any future stuff Oct 28 07:29:43 how do I sign up to beta test? Oct 28 07:29:50 just can't talk about it, but i can talk about stuff that has shipped Oct 28 07:29:57 though i haven't worked on any of the shipping stuff Oct 28 07:30:25 it was fun getting android on omap850 Oct 28 07:30:33 but we generally dont mind peope hacking our fones, since after all, we already made our money if you have one in your hand Oct 28 07:30:39 kinda stuck now with radio though Oct 28 07:30:58 we have a working gsm driver but no proper tty for it Oct 28 07:31:03 yeah, that's really the elephant in the room Oct 28 07:31:11 you can hack stuff onto any of these cpus, and it's fun Oct 28 07:31:15 so we can make silent calls thats it Oct 28 07:31:21 but the radio is usually a big black box of fail Oct 28 07:31:49 it's worse on the msm cpus, since the arm11 is a slave to the radio Oct 28 07:31:49 how about getting palm to release some documentation? Oct 28 07:31:58 well someone is slowly but surely getting a tty for it Oct 28 07:32:08 you have to match the a11 stuff with the radio firmware version, so the rpc calls between them work, etc Oct 28 07:32:36 thankfully omap850 has a seperate core for radio Oct 28 07:32:38 nesoi: you think we have docs? Oct 28 07:32:49 shit, I'm doing good to get a schematic from the hardware guys Oct 28 07:32:49 tried and true Oct 28 07:33:16 BruteSource: msm does too, but the radio core has access to all the hardware ad the arm11 has to ask permission from the radio to do anything Oct 28 07:33:21 it's a really annoying architecture Oct 28 07:33:33 geist, really? no docs? usually you'd do development to some specs Oct 28 07:33:42 nesoi: usually it's the schematic Oct 28 07:34:00 so why not release that? Oct 28 07:34:07 * geist shrugs Oct 28 07:34:16 same at apple, same at danger Oct 28 07:34:29 hardware guys make a thing, software guys hack stuff to run on it Oct 28 07:34:36 ew danger Oct 28 07:34:44 sounds like the old proprietary minicomputer days Oct 28 07:34:55 the loop can be pretty tight, since you can just go down and talk to the hw folks Oct 28 07:35:06 but for the most part most of the guts are on the SOC anyway Oct 28 07:35:23 and the schematic is just how the voltage domains are set up and what ports the peripherals are connected to Oct 28 07:35:26 and how to set up the gpios Oct 28 07:35:42 so usually you end up with a couple hundred lines of board specific bits Oct 28 07:36:45 and on top of that the hw folks usually stick to the default pins Oct 28 07:37:04 so really you just have to look where the schematic does something unusual Oct 28 07:41:25 i would just find a device that already has linux running nicely + radio support, that would make a nice android port Oct 28 07:41:46 n800? Oct 28 07:41:51 does it have a radio? I forget Oct 28 07:41:58 no Oct 28 07:42:02 i dont know Oct 28 07:42:03 awesome device Oct 28 07:42:03 fm radio :P Oct 28 07:42:11 no cellular Oct 28 07:42:24 oh wait i forgot htc vogue has release android with radio and audio Oct 28 07:42:25 I've got a n800 and 2 n770s Oct 28 07:42:27 but yeah, there just aren't a lot of linux based cell phones out there right now Oct 28 07:42:44 htc vogue has an android release? Oct 28 07:42:47 didn't motorola try to get one out at some point? Oct 28 07:42:54 geist yeah, openmoko, and a few motorolas Oct 28 07:42:58 not talking about linux based phones, just phones people have hacked lunux onto Oct 28 07:43:08 yeah a780, razr2, a1200 and a few others Oct 28 07:43:11 BruteSource: yeah, but mst of the time that clobbers the radio Oct 28 07:43:14 spike yes some guy name martin Oct 28 07:43:23 usually the radio interface is highly proprietary Oct 28 07:43:30 I really like the A1200 for a phone Oct 28 07:43:44 to the point that you essentially cant use it if you hack linux onto something that already didn't Oct 28 07:43:49 geist what? i mean a phone with linux that already has radio support Oct 28 07:44:03 rumors claim motorola's trying to increase their android team from 50 to 350.. so I'd expect a product in the not too distant future Oct 28 07:44:04 there are plenty out there Oct 28 07:44:14 well good then Oct 28 07:44:25 openmoko is shipping Oct 28 07:44:25 i havne't heard of that many, but guess i'm wrong Oct 28 07:44:31 not sure if the hardware is stable Oct 28 07:44:45 motorola has 8 ish, I've got a devel account if you really want the list Oct 28 07:45:11 that was on slashdot like a month ago they probably already have Oct 28 07:45:14 seems like vogue has everything but power management and a few other things Oct 28 07:45:14 motorola sells linux phones by the million Oct 28 07:45:25 but strangely very few hear (just one of the razr2's) Oct 28 07:45:35 that's probably true Oct 28 07:45:37 and yes its release, so is the android on my excalibur Oct 28 07:45:39 not sure why they take on of their most popular foreign phones and don't sell it here Oct 28 07:45:41 and a lot of them aren't really androidable, right? Oct 28 07:45:44 little screens, etc Oct 28 07:45:58 well dunno Oct 28 07:46:28 most phones that have hacked linux with radio are smartphones with big screens Oct 28 07:46:45 alot of htc devices Oct 28 07:47:22 320x240 isn't as high as the g1 Oct 28 07:47:32 but not what I'd call tiny Oct 28 07:47:56 lol android looks great on my qvga Oct 28 07:48:09 yeah I'd love something more like my n800 Oct 28 07:48:12 2 storage slots Oct 28 07:48:15 and 800x480 Oct 28 07:48:36 so android on an xscale isnt happening any time soon? Oct 28 07:48:52 who knows Oct 28 07:48:53 htc touch is full vga at least Oct 28 07:49:15 we didnt annonce anything or nake a git tree, we just did it Oct 28 07:49:15 touch hd is 800x480 I think Oct 28 07:49:25 * waldo_ is back (gone 04:52:16) Oct 28 07:49:38 so there could be many projects going on we dont know about Oct 28 07:49:59 I was shocked and amazed how many android videos there are on youtube Oct 28 07:50:17 no idea how many are just emulating android, or missing major functionality (like the radio) Oct 28 07:50:41 well thats the first step... Oct 28 07:50:51 yeah, my suspicion is that the successful projects dont spend all day talking about it on irc Oct 28 07:51:04 not emulating but the kernel and userpace Oct 28 07:51:34 or posting it on forums or sourceforge lol Oct 28 07:52:08 but i posted it on xda and man did that thread get hot Oct 28 07:52:10 I'd prefer they spent all day advertising their success and telling me where to send the $$$ ;-) Oct 28 07:52:25 but for now the g1 keeps me happy Oct 28 07:52:33 cant sell anything with a gpl lol Oct 28 07:52:33 and I have to say 192MB ram works much better than I feared Oct 28 07:52:55 more people need to thank GOOG Oct 28 07:53:31 indeed Oct 28 07:53:44 I think the iphone might have been a necessary prereq Oct 28 07:53:50 i thank the devs not google, i mean a killswitch? a locked bootloader, no root, wtf? Oct 28 07:53:54 raise the bar, show how much the GUI matters Oct 28 07:54:09 seems some ppla re working on an axim x5? port already: 58x99.9x13.9mm, 112g, Microsoft Windows Mobile 6 Professional , 32bit Texas Instruments OMAP 850, 201MHz CPU, 128MiB RAM, 256MiB ROM, 2.8" 240x320 color transflective TFT display, Proprietary audio jack, Oct 28 07:54:13 erm..... oops Oct 28 07:54:14 i duno about comparing it to the iphone Oct 28 07:54:19 http://forum.htcgeeks.com/local_links.php?catid=60 Oct 28 07:54:38 well android plays to the iphone weakness... while having a very nice GUI Oct 28 07:54:38 still doesnt compare in alot of ways Oct 28 07:55:09 I agree they are very different Oct 28 07:55:25 you're right, it has a real KB Oct 28 07:55:30 ya but no multi touch, no huge internal flash disk, not even a 3.5 jack Oct 28 07:55:37 so it's that much better Oct 28 07:56:00 I'm hoping they work out something for the storage Oct 28 07:56:05 think of the g1 as a beta :) Oct 28 07:56:07 seems a shame to limit apps to the internal storage Oct 28 07:56:09 there ARE more to come Oct 28 07:56:10 thay have Oct 28 07:56:16 whereas iphone will just get upgrades Oct 28 07:56:22 8 gig flash drive = 8 gig iThings Oct 28 07:56:37 * DarkriftX goes to bed Oct 28 07:56:39 its funded by GOOG is what i mean Oct 28 07:56:39 gn all Oct 28 07:56:41 up to a 32gb Oct 28 07:56:56 8GB cost $30... I couldn't justify $90 ish for 16. Oct 28 07:57:02 yeah, but soon there will be 16 gig cards Oct 28 07:57:08 or there are Oct 28 07:57:13 even higher Oct 28 07:57:19 I figure a factor of 8 is enough for now Oct 28 07:57:30 but from what I can tell you can't use the 8 to store apps Oct 28 07:57:33 just data Oct 28 07:57:55 yup, until its rooted anyways Oct 28 08:01:02 cool my tiny python program to send XMPP messages works Oct 28 08:01:06 i like android because of the linux side, i wouldnt buy a g1 untill im sure there is a rootkit. Oct 28 08:01:22 now I can have an email page address that will find me via cellular or wifi Oct 28 08:01:42 Brute I'm linux top to bottom everywhere I go Oct 28 08:01:56 access points, laptops, desktops, servers at home, work, etc. Oct 28 08:02:08 I'd like a rootkit, but it's still damn nice even without Oct 28 08:02:33 i have push gmail already, if thats what your referring to. Oct 28 08:02:33 (and pda's of course) Oct 28 08:05:13 i cant believe there isnt a rootkit yet, i think this device is making history as far as that goes. Oct 28 08:06:36 ? Oct 28 08:06:55 you mean time from release -> rootkit? Oct 28 08:07:25 ya Oct 28 08:07:31 holy fuck Oct 28 08:07:38 if you mean the equivalent of jailbreaking, that != rootkit. Oct 28 08:07:43 there's a file manager on in the market Oct 28 08:08:08 no i mean a way to become root user pid=0 Oct 28 08:08:12 uid Oct 28 08:08:38 when you already have root access or to get root access when you don't have that initally Oct 28 08:08:56 #1 is a rootkit, #2 is just an exploit Oct 28 08:09:15 yeah, most iphone hacks seem to be #2 Oct 28 08:09:16 * Adamant apologizes for playing the definitions game Oct 28 08:09:26 and even then it seems incompalete Oct 28 08:09:35 i.e. they can install apps, but not unlock the phone Oct 28 08:10:55 i dont think there has been a linux device released ever that has gone this far without making an exploit to gain root Oct 28 08:11:34 without someone... i mean Oct 28 08:11:40 to be honest there seems less incentive than usual Oct 28 08:12:09 i dont see why Oct 28 08:12:13 I suspect most folks are playing with android and eclipse Oct 28 08:12:26 making use of all the android bindings etc. Oct 28 08:12:46 most linux geeks dont care thereon a mission to be first to root something Oct 28 08:12:50 sure it would be nice to turn a g1 into a 3g <-> wifi router Oct 28 08:12:53 show there linux balls Oct 28 08:19:22 i have never experienced 3g Oct 28 08:19:33 is it really that fast? Oct 28 08:20:35 Guys this may sound dumb but what is a android and the purpose of it? Oct 28 08:20:44 mine's not "that" fast. but for everything I've done on the g1 so far.. it's smooth enough to say it's nice Oct 28 08:21:08 rednode, it's a mobile platform, in lay terms consider it an operating system... Oct 28 08:21:48 and it has more "openess" for programmers to create applications and games, than other mobile devices Oct 28 08:22:20 so *sight now* it's a cellp phone OS, that almost anyone can create a program for, just as they would your desktop pc Oct 28 08:22:27 *right now Oct 28 08:22:33 rednode: yeah basically it's an operating system for phones that let you do cool things. Oct 28 08:22:44 BruteSource: yes Oct 28 08:23:09 it's suprisingly fast Oct 28 08:23:10 googles goal seems to be to improve cell phones enough so that more people use the web/search/exposed to google advertising Oct 28 08:23:39 ahh ok Oct 28 08:23:44 and what languages can you use? Oct 28 08:23:47 C++ or only Java? Oct 28 08:23:47 and so they can know even more about everyone, which will help them to become Big Brother even quicker Oct 28 08:24:21 red only java for end-user applications Oct 28 08:24:37 or any program that can output to java bytecode Oct 28 08:25:19 that is, language Oct 28 08:31:24 hmm Oct 28 08:31:52 someone told me today that google's working on a native sdk Oct 28 08:31:53 "No repository found at https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/" Oct 28 08:34:42 jasta_: try 'http' Oct 28 08:35:27 worked. wonder what that's all about. Oct 28 08:35:37 weird Oct 28 08:45:11 what's a native sdk? Oct 28 08:47:11 jasta_: awake? Oct 28 08:47:50 yes Oct 28 08:48:09 am looking at the sources.. how do you test/debug that mess? Oct 28 08:48:23 first of all, it's not a mess Oct 28 08:48:32 good Oct 28 08:48:35 second, pick a component Oct 28 08:48:48 you can't "test/debug" the whole thing unless you mean how to you just run it in the emulator Oct 28 08:49:05 in which case just run make and then look in out -- everything the emulator needs is in there Oct 28 08:49:16 oh right Oct 28 08:49:24 ok, running the emu is the only way? Oct 28 08:49:40 as opposed to? running it on your phone? Oct 28 08:50:24 running it by eclipse? Oct 28 08:50:42 do you understand what the source code _is_? Oct 28 08:50:55 why don't you enlighten me? Oct 28 08:50:59 it isn't a Java program. Oct 28 08:51:27 it's the entire platform source, including the kernel, C/C++ libraries, middleware, and a bunch of Android apps. Oct 28 08:51:40 jasta how long did it take to build? Oct 28 08:51:43 just out of curiousity Oct 28 08:51:47 about 20 minutes on my box (a powerful box) Oct 28 08:51:51 the whole 2 gigs? Oct 28 08:51:53 holy crap Oct 28 08:51:58 maybe 30 minutes, i dunno, i wasnt realy watching it Oct 28 08:52:06 wow Oct 28 08:52:12 yeah i have a quad core machine so i just parallelized Oct 28 08:52:14 I thought you were going to say about 10 hours Oct 28 08:52:24 that's amazing Oct 28 08:52:33 this isn't 1990 Oct 28 08:52:42 haha Oct 28 08:52:43 still Oct 28 08:52:59 Hey-- It took many many hours just to build everything in gentoo Oct 28 08:53:01 like 12 Oct 28 08:53:02 but its kinda crazy to build this whole stuff Oct 28 08:53:11 and that was 4 years ago? Oct 28 08:53:11 just to see if my 2 lines is working.. Oct 28 08:53:20 waldo_: everything in ubuntu is quite a lot larger than android Oct 28 08:53:24 1990 linux didn'te ven exist Oct 28 08:53:31 android's two largest components, for instance, are Linux and WebKit Oct 28 08:53:37 [23:27] sweet Oct 28 08:53:37 [23:27] 11 minutes to compile Android 1.0 on my machine Oct 28 08:53:43 okay the kernel takes me 5 minutes maybe Oct 28 08:53:44 Linux can be built in like 2 minutes or so Oct 28 08:53:53 waldo_: not this kernel, it's very slim., Oct 28 08:54:04 the configuration calls for almost nothing to be built Oct 28 08:54:17 wow, 11 mins Oct 28 08:54:23 the kernel used to take like 30 minutes in 1995 or even longer Oct 28 08:54:40 waldo_: again, that's probably building a fully modular, desktop kernel Oct 28 08:54:44 yes Oct 28 08:54:44 android' skernel is much slimmer Oct 28 08:54:54 in 1995 the kernel complexity and the systems it built on were different :| Oct 28 08:55:02 jasta_: tell me how you tested your stuff, before sending in the patch Oct 28 08:55:07 i'm still amazed.. 2 gigs of anything to compile in 20 minutes is amazing Oct 28 08:55:28 muthu: well since i was only working on the Email app, i merely built the Email app into an APK and installed it onto the emulator Oct 28 08:55:46 jasta how's your push stuff coming Oct 28 08:55:53 if i was working on, for isntance, dalvik i would have had a totally different environment. Oct 28 08:55:53 and did you see there was another email fork in the market? Oct 28 08:56:00 ok Oct 28 08:56:02 waldo_: it works, but it needs major cleanup Oct 28 08:56:11 waldo_: i did yeah, i was going to contact that guy. our goals are similar. Oct 28 08:56:21 i was going to work on searching next, but he took care of it :) Oct 28 08:56:37 yeah i'm starting to see where developers can start working together so we don't have, say, 15 weather programs, but zero net tools... Oct 28 08:57:27 i was talking to michael novak about that so I think he's working on something Oct 28 08:59:06 build/core/api/1.xml:240357: error 1: required string: "exception" Oct 28 08:59:08 hi, there Oct 28 08:59:17 i cann't build android~ Oct 28 09:00:01 [~/devel/hhdroid>-986$ make Oct 28 09:00:01 build/core/product_config.mk:229: WARNING: adding test OTA key Oct 28 09:00:01 Checking API: checkapi-last Oct 28 09:00:01 build/core/api/1.xml:240357: error 1: required string: "exception" Oct 28 09:00:01 ****************************** Oct 28 09:00:02 You have tried to change the API from what has been previously released in Oct 28 09:00:04 an SDK. Please fix the errors listed above. Oct 28 09:00:06 ****************************** Oct 28 09:00:08 make: *** [out/target/common/obj/PACKAGING/checkapi-last-timestamp] Error 38 Oct 28 09:00:21 noclouds stop. use pastebin instead Oct 28 09:00:58 what is `pastebin'? Oct 28 09:01:02 http://pastebin.com/ Oct 28 09:01:03 noclouds: is this the latest source? Oct 28 09:01:12 of course~ Oct 28 09:01:17 you paste your text in to it. then it gives you a url to share the text Oct 28 09:01:30 so on irc, you share 1 line, not a flood Oct 28 09:01:36 jesus this new machine is so fast :) Oct 28 09:01:40 heh Oct 28 09:01:42 i have 6GB of ram now Oct 28 09:01:45 nice Oct 28 09:01:54 6? oooh Oct 28 09:01:55 faster quad core than my work machine too Oct 28 09:01:57 home built or ? Oct 28 09:02:04 am stuck at 2gb Oct 28 09:02:15 nah i just picked up an acer today from fry's. i really can't be bothered to build my own machines anymore. Oct 28 09:02:18 such a waste of my time Oct 28 09:02:22 haha Oct 28 09:02:28 thinks, languish Oct 28 09:02:35 noclouds, no problem Oct 28 09:03:21 * muthu need to get quad core and 8gb ram Oct 28 09:03:46 is there a loptop with that kinda config? Oct 28 09:04:08 dual-dualcore (older macpro), 2.8GHz, 2GB ram, linux, make -j8 can build the full system in ~15min Oct 28 09:04:34 which is slower than I'd like but survivable Oct 28 09:04:48 just for kicks, im gonna build it right now :) Oct 28 09:04:50 15 min not bad Oct 28 09:04:53 on my new machine Oct 28 09:05:11 jasta_: clock it Oct 28 09:05:11 http://pastebin.com/m55184864 Oct 28 09:05:23 so this my problem~ Oct 28 09:06:03 I find -jN where N is 2x the number of cores is usually a happy thing, but if you have a ton of memory more than 2x might be worth it Oct 28 09:06:38 how ya doing swetland? Oct 28 09:06:56 hanging in there. about to call it a day. Oct 28 09:07:53 google told me there is someone else got the same problem as mine: Oct 28 09:07:55 http://www.talkandroid.com/android-forums/android-development/388-android-source-build-problem-under-ubuntu.html Oct 28 09:09:16 swetland you guys should be prod no one has rooted g1 yet Oct 28 09:09:43 we'll see how long it lasts. a week is a nice start though Oct 28 09:11:04 the system's designed to run an absolute minimum number of processes as root, run nothing as setuid root, and generally be cautious about privilege escalation Oct 28 09:11:23 im trying to think of the last linux device that made it this long Oct 28 09:12:02 i think we should get a booky involved :) Oct 28 09:12:26 lol my money is on 3 weeks Oct 28 09:12:40 i'd like to be able to take bets on what part of the platform is gonna fail Oct 28 09:12:44 if you're going to start betting, I'd propose a couple different pools: - gaining root locally - bootloader exploit - remote code execution in the browser Oct 28 09:13:22 yeah, totally Oct 28 09:13:27 i think we should get more granular even :) Oct 28 09:13:41 well if bootloader comes first it should be easy for the other 2 Oct 28 09:13:49 for instance, local root i think is gonna come from...erm, i'll say adbd. Oct 28 09:14:04 jasta: it runs as a nonpriv user Oct 28 09:14:17 are you sure? i show it as root Oct 28 09:14:26 on the emulator Oct 28 09:14:29 oh :) Oct 28 09:14:31 not on a production ubild Oct 28 09:14:52 damn ok, ill need to plug in my device and revise my betting Oct 28 09:15:10 the emulator looks more like what we call a userdebug build (adb runs as root, su is installed, no restrictions on debugger usage) Oct 28 09:15:30 god swetland, what ere you thinking with this useless terminal emulator Oct 28 09:15:40 hm? Oct 28 09:15:43 were Oct 28 09:15:56 BruteSource, if there something about this time of day/night that makes you grumpy? Oct 28 09:16:02 no history support, tab completion... Oct 28 09:16:02 ahahha Oct 28 09:16:09 :) Oct 28 09:16:15 im not grumpy? Oct 28 09:16:21 bs: technically that's a shell limitation not a terminal emulator limitation Oct 28 09:16:25 why do i seem grumpy? Oct 28 09:16:34 and honestly, I came this close to not shipping with the shell at all Oct 28 09:16:45 too useful for debugging though Oct 28 09:16:52 last i checked ash had history and tab completion Oct 28 09:16:58 if built with editline Oct 28 09:17:20 which then needs curses Oct 28 09:17:41 both doable, but were not essential, would burn a bit more flash, didn't get much love for 1.0 Oct 28 09:17:41 aw Oct 28 09:18:08 well im sure a decent terminal will come from a 3rd party app maker soon Oct 28 09:18:17 if somebody got a nice minimal port of editline / some lightweight bsd licensed curses library built, we'd consider picking that up Oct 28 09:18:55 /data/local exists and is writable by the shell user so that you can use adb to dump commandline goodies on the device for use by the shell Oct 28 09:19:38 i ran top on it and it didnt even make it fit on my screen Oct 28 09:19:46 but that might be my screen Oct 28 09:20:39 hahha oh man.. I just had my first android app experience Oct 28 09:21:01 android app experience? Oct 28 09:21:14 I had the G1 in my pocket, went to hit the head... and the lightbulb in the bathroom blew out Oct 28 09:21:24 pulled out the G1, hit the flashlight app Oct 28 09:21:30 worked like a charm Oct 28 09:21:32 ahaha Oct 28 09:21:33 rolf Oct 28 09:22:52 * swetland catches up on xda-developers threads on dream Oct 28 09:22:59 i like that app Oct 28 09:23:00 wow Oct 28 09:23:21 swetland: is that a fun game for you? watching all your lab rats explore the maze? :) Oct 28 09:23:27 i just press a button to bring my device to life and thats enough light to see in the dark for me Oct 28 09:23:47 it's fun watching people try to take the system apart, yes Oct 28 09:24:03 I was always sad at danger that nobody seemed to care enough to even try to hack the system ^^ Oct 28 09:24:10 haha Oct 28 09:24:23 when were you at danger swetland? what years Oct 28 09:24:29 BruteSource, I have a dark background image. not ebough light. so the flashlight app helped Oct 28 09:24:29 or maybe we just did a really good job, but I know we had a couple exploitable bugs in earlier revs of the os Oct 28 09:24:33 2000-2004 Oct 28 09:24:40 look at the sidekicks demographic Oct 28 09:24:46 i met with some folks from there in july when i had some training in sf Oct 28 09:24:56 they showed me the new sidekick prototype Oct 28 09:25:14 I still know a few of the danger folks. most of the original team has moved on though Oct 28 09:25:22 i dont know any 14 yr old mallrat hackers Oct 28 09:25:28 bunch of us at google, a couple worked on iphone and iphone 3g, etc, etc Oct 28 09:25:38 yeah, everyone i was with was stoked to be microsoft then Oct 28 09:26:28 give it 5 years and i say 80% of devices will have android Oct 28 09:26:33 stock Oct 28 09:26:45 heh, i know people like their database architect.. ldap and auth ppl.. etc. Oct 28 09:26:52 80% of all mobile devices? Oct 28 09:27:04 i bought a sidekick 08 Oct 28 09:27:07 ya Oct 28 09:27:19 seems like a stretch to me. mind you, I wouldn't complain, but mobile is a huge space Oct 28 09:27:39 i'd like the option to load the android environment on boot Oct 28 09:27:42 thats my guess, i give 20% to cheap flip phones that have very basic hw Oct 28 09:27:49 I'm skeptical we'll see a single dominant player the way win32 is on pcs Oct 28 09:28:33 or a virtualization also supporting android Oct 28 09:28:37 hmm, still no new builds of sdk released. Oct 28 09:28:54 swetland, yeah.. symbian is wroking up for a big move now Oct 28 09:28:57 swetland will there ever be snapshots released? cause else ill have to go back to 0.9 again :( Oct 28 09:28:58 *working Oct 28 09:29:15 what's wrong with 1.0? Oct 28 09:29:15 android really kicked some groups in the pants Oct 28 09:29:21 as it is right now i just compile it for arm5te Oct 28 09:29:31 symbian used to be my favorite mobile os Oct 28 09:29:36 whatever programs Oct 28 09:29:39 s60 anyways Oct 28 09:29:45 I think Android is going to beat WinMo and Symbian. And I think given Apple's current iThing strategy, it may very well marginalize those devices. then again I'm in #android is I'm not exactly a neutral observer Oct 28 09:30:10 Adamant, you engadget reader you Oct 28 09:30:11 swetland: emulator cannot handle -qemu flag. bug filed and reviewed. maybe fixed in source. but i dont really have time to build and maybe patch all of it. Oct 28 09:30:18 but I doubt anything will ever have 80% of the market Oct 28 09:30:28 it's too big and too varied Oct 28 09:30:31 languish: ? Oct 28 09:30:34 i dont like iphone dream comparisons Oct 28 09:30:45 I'm sure there will be updates to the sdk. dunno any details, but I know we're not just going to stop at 1.0 Oct 28 09:30:46 Adamant, you're use of the iThing moniker Oct 28 09:30:51 :) Oct 28 09:30:55 *your Oct 28 09:30:55 i'm really impressed with what android ended up bein. Oct 28 09:30:57 damnit Oct 28 09:31:05 languish: ah, I don't know if I got it from them or came up with it myself Oct 28 09:31:07 swetland: sadly the issue tracker still looks broken. no links to patches included and so on. Oct 28 09:31:26 would help to know if its fixed or not, and not to read all changelogs in git. Oct 28 09:31:29 im curious how well the first non ts android launch will go Oct 28 09:31:49 tric: infrastructure is being worked on. many known issues with bug tracking stuff. once repo/gerrit/git is solid I'm sure the bugtracker will get some more love Oct 28 09:32:06 swetland the next device will be motorola right? Oct 28 09:33:15 yay, got my first change merged into the git tree :) Oct 28 09:33:43 I can't comment on unannounced devices / rumors / etc. also, given that the source is completely open, I fully expect to be utterly surprised by devices I'd never heard of suddenly shipping at some point Oct 28 09:34:49 in any case, way late here. 'night folks. happy hacking Oct 28 09:34:49 swetland, some wacky co already made an announcement Oct 28 09:34:53 manufactures would just ship a device with android w/o even mentioning it to google? Oct 28 09:35:01 though for now they're vapor Oct 28 09:35:09 they could! they might! who knows Oct 28 09:35:19 heh, 'nigth man Oct 28 09:35:22 *night Oct 28 09:35:23 'later Oct 28 09:35:25 lol that would be great Oct 28 09:35:30 night bud Oct 28 09:36:20 lenovo is doing an android phone in china Oct 28 09:36:30 http://gizmodo.com/5069604/china-goes-with-lenovo-for-its-own-google-phone Oct 28 09:36:57 or there just hyping Oct 28 09:37:10 lenovo why do i know that name Oct 28 09:37:21 lenovo took over ibm laptops Oct 28 09:37:27 they produce thinkpads now Oct 28 09:37:28 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 28 09:37:40 among other things Oct 28 09:38:11 ibm no longer makes laptops? Oct 28 09:38:23 they haven't for awhile Oct 28 09:38:30 they were the best laptop manufacturer Oct 28 09:38:38 thats sad to hear Oct 28 09:38:40 they sold their operation to lenovo Oct 28 09:38:47 some years ago Oct 28 09:38:49 ahh Oct 28 09:38:52 here we g Oct 28 09:38:56 lenovo produced ibm thinkpads for several years. they only bought the brand and development from ibm maybe 2-3 years ago aswell Oct 28 09:39:00 theother android announcement http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/10/24/hop-on-promises-android-phone-at-ces-cookies-rainbows/ Oct 28 09:39:11 is this channel for android coders? Oct 28 09:39:17 neekers yes Oct 28 09:39:23 thank you Oct 28 09:39:23 i hate not being able to click or copy links Oct 28 09:39:51 BruteSource, save the links as notes, then check them out later Oct 28 09:39:58 guess ill have to switch to alienware Oct 28 09:40:07 i cant save them s notes.... Oct 28 09:40:08 alienware is owned by dell now Oct 28 09:40:16 yup Oct 28 09:40:16 BruteSource, pen, paper. Oct 28 09:40:46 im not riting a url down to read an article, why would you even say that? Oct 28 09:40:52 writing Oct 28 09:40:54 * languish facepalms Oct 28 09:41:10 you act likeyou would, just shhh. Oct 28 09:41:13 because you're the guy who can't open a webbrowser :) Oct 28 09:41:20 oh i hate this keypad Oct 28 09:41:21 I would and I have Oct 28 09:41:24 did anyone here build the sdk from source and can try to start the emulator with -qemu flag? `emulator -qemu`, is it working or just telling "(null): invalid option -- '-qemu'"? Oct 28 09:41:29 i can open a browser Oct 28 09:41:41 ok shh let this guy find some assistance Oct 28 09:41:53 wtf are you even talking about? do you know? Oct 28 09:42:05 no im sick of you, click. Oct 28 09:42:28 * jasta_ impatiently waits on repo1.maven.org to repsond Oct 28 09:44:21 no one would write down a link that long to read a useless article, of course it's easy to say you would, just to be a nag. Oct 28 09:45:37 tric, it looks like you're not the only one with the problem.. it's a bug most likely.. and has been reported... http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=906 Oct 28 09:46:09 if you have an app you created running on the G1 and you hit the home button, I assume the app continues to run in the background, how do you stop the app? Oct 28 09:46:34 BruteSource, when I'm discussing an issue I'm interested in, I do and have recorded information, including urls, by hand, to check out later on Oct 28 09:46:52 im sure Oct 28 09:47:36 languish: hehe, its me who filed that bug. and thats why i wanna know if its fixed in the current git repository Oct 28 09:48:06 neekers, it depends on the app, some will run in the background others are ... *as I understand it* save stated. the user does not end the applications, instead the OS will save state up to 6 apps, then the 7th is ended automatically Oct 28 09:49:03 you can stop them with top in the terminal emulator Oct 28 09:49:35 neekers, so you start 6 apps, then start another one, the first app you started and aren't using, will be eneded by the OS, then you start another app, and the second one you started will be ended by the IS Oct 28 09:49:37 *OS Oct 28 09:50:35 or killall -9 if you know the process name Oct 28 09:50:36 so you always have up to 6 apps (assuming you started 6 apps since a shutdown), and for each new app you start, the oldest app is ended Oct 28 09:50:50 BruteSource, he asked on the G1 Oct 28 09:50:50 i have a little map application and i hit the home button and every minute i see a toast dialog display the gps location on the home page, can i progamatically stop the app by pressing the menu button and displaying a stop button? is that the proper way to do it? Oct 28 09:51:12 BruteSource, you can't do that on a G1 yet Oct 28 09:51:12 yes, on the G1 Oct 28 09:51:27 why? what stops you? Oct 28 09:51:40 BruteSource, there's no shell access on the G1 Oct 28 09:52:02 what are you talking about? Oct 28 09:52:14 dude, stop trolling, seriously Oct 28 09:52:18 dev tools, terminal emulator Oct 28 09:52:29 no one is trolling your wrong. Oct 28 09:52:43 BruteSource, that's if you have it plugged in for dev Oct 28 09:52:51 no... Oct 28 09:52:51 most people won't and that's not what he asked Oct 28 09:53:50 everyone has it Oct 28 09:53:59 sure, what's the UI path to it Oct 28 09:54:03 me and swetland were just talking about it Oct 28 09:54:04 on the G1 Oct 28 09:54:09 without a usb connection Oct 28 09:54:18 i just told you Oct 28 09:54:22 do you even own a G1? Oct 28 09:54:24 no. Oct 28 09:54:26 you don't. Oct 28 09:54:38 this guy. Oct 28 09:54:50 who in here has a g1? Oct 28 09:55:09 ill prove it to him Oct 28 09:55:10 i got my g1 last thursday, it is very cool, i love it Oct 28 09:55:26 okay neekers do you have a dev tools menu? Oct 28 09:55:28 neekers, beware of BruteSource Oct 28 09:55:50 he is scared of being embaressed Oct 28 09:56:33 and proven wrong, you can just read the scroll back me and swetland were just talking about the terminal emulator Oct 28 09:56:45 no, i dont see dev tools on here Oct 28 09:57:02 okay then there is another path to it Oct 28 09:57:16 not on a production ubild Oct 28 09:57:25 i was actaully wondering about a terminal emulator, that would be cool, but for now, i just need to get my app going Oct 28 09:57:38 BruteSource, it's only on google-issues dev models, not production G1's Oct 28 09:57:49 languish no Oct 28 09:57:58 what was right before that? Oct 28 09:58:16 anddev.org has a lot of nice code samples, are there other sites that have a lot? Oct 28 09:58:27 i know because my androi is the release userspace not the dev userspace and i have a terminal emulator Oct 28 09:58:37 android Oct 28 09:59:45 he said not on a production ubild after i asked if they could get root Oct 28 10:00:16 BruteSource, on the production G1's, it's not accesible through the GUI Oct 28 10:00:25 what do you not understand about that? Oct 28 10:00:53 lmao your such a fool Oct 28 10:01:05 just dont speak to m anymore Oct 28 10:01:07 "you're" Oct 28 10:01:20 lol its urc Oct 28 10:01:22 irc Oct 28 10:02:04 whydont you paste the line where swetland said I ALMOST DIDNT SHIP IT WITH A TERMINAL EMULATOR? Oct 28 10:02:23 is the market app available for download? Oct 28 10:02:42 i dont think so, no Oct 28 10:02:50 hmm Oct 28 10:02:55 BruteSource, he shipped the android code base with it. The carrier (T-Mobile) made their own changes Oct 28 10:03:26 neekers: apps-for-android.googlecode.com Oct 28 10:03:30 GOD I WISH I COULD LINK Oct 28 10:03:37 Ooops Oct 28 10:03:41 thanks muthu Oct 28 10:03:48 np Oct 28 10:04:02 hope you saw the topic ;) Oct 28 10:04:14 i have 4 videos of people with g1's using the terminal emulator to do various things Oct 28 10:04:45 BruteSource, and those people has DEVELOPER htc dreams Oct 28 10:04:58 NOT retail T-mobile G1's Oct 28 10:05:06 i knew you would sa that Oct 28 10:05:15 even if they were branded Oct 28 10:05:20 these were normal people, one is 15 year old Oct 28 10:05:32 you guys are both wrong ;) Oct 28 10:05:39 i wasn't paying attention, i suffer from internet induced ad-blindness Oct 28 10:05:44 languish: there are terminal apps available on the commercila G1 Oct 28 10:05:45 would be nice to run my own custom brand android ;) Oct 28 10:05:50 you just havent foung the gui path to the terminal yet Oct 28 10:05:59 BruteSource: no, it's not a terminal emulator, it just is an interactive java app simulating it using Process.open Oct 28 10:06:05 likely so. jasta, my point is that while it may be there, it's not in the G1 gui as an option Oct 28 10:06:36 it's something that has to be added, isn't it? an apk? or enabled through the dev kit Oct 28 10:06:37 languish: i cant parse that statement on account of it being excessively stupid. there is no term app bundled with the G1 system image. Oct 28 10:06:45 right Oct 28 10:06:58 which is what I've been saying Oct 28 10:07:44 now your saying ash isnt even included at all in android? Oct 28 10:07:49 but again, this is not a terminal emulator. even google's is not a terminal emulator, though some naive folks have called it that. Oct 28 10:08:14 BruteSource: when we say app, we mean above Android's middleware layer. as in, an "android" apk. Oct 28 10:08:18 I'm just using his terminology, not assuming it is Oct 28 10:08:18 what no one is calling android a terminal emulator Oct 28 10:08:21 below that, of course there is a shell Oct 28 10:08:30 you can get one by running adb shell with a device plugged in over usb Oct 28 10:08:55 and what swetland was talking about was the shell Oct 28 10:09:05 BruteSource: i didn't mean this as in android. i meant this app you guys are referring to. it's a really lame trick, not a terminal emulator. Oct 28 10:09:08 you can get one by running "terminal emulator" from the gui Oct 28 10:09:09 which again, is not accessible from the GUI Oct 28 10:09:15 for instance, you could not run a curses app with this, as it is not really a term :) Oct 28 10:09:31 you can get one by running "terminal emulator" from the gui <- this is the problem Oct 28 10:09:32 please stop referring to the GUI incorrectly, both of you. Oct 28 10:09:42 thats why its called a terminal "emulator" Oct 28 10:09:43 fine, from the menus Oct 28 10:09:47 the GUI does not mean the standard system image. Oct 28 10:10:21 BruteSource: no, actually, that isn't what a terminal emulator is at all Oct 28 10:10:26 its a graphical user interface by black and white defenition, i dont care what google named it, its still a gui Oct 28 10:10:35 opening processes and writing to them / reading from them is _NOT_ a terminal emulator. Oct 28 10:10:35 *sigh* Oct 28 10:11:01 how is it not a gui? Oct 28 10:11:33 its graphical... you use the user use it to interface with the os.... Oct 28 10:11:34 BruteSource: please explain your point succinctly. you are lost in semantic hell. Oct 28 10:11:50 blah Oct 28 10:11:53 i can't argue with this nonsense you are using now. Oct 28 10:12:08 "when you look at the screen, you see icons, not a command line" is what he's saying Oct 28 10:12:15 i mean you the "user" use it to "interface" with the os Oct 28 10:12:32 no thats not what im aying, just dont talk Oct 28 10:12:33 BruteSource: that's a ridiculous definition of a GUI Oct 28 10:12:36 saying Oct 28 10:12:54 and BruteSource, there is NO option in the menuing of the G1 to access a command line interface to the filesystem Oct 28 10:13:10 well that's not true either languish. Oct 28 10:13:16 thats a rediculous defeniti of a graphical user interface? Oct 28 10:13:17 jasta, there is? Oct 28 10:13:20 because Android can install applications, you could merely write such an app and load it. Oct 28 10:13:22 command line has always been the opposite of gui Oct 28 10:13:34 you could write a terminal emulator, and then install it to your phone. Oct 28 10:13:37 jasta, I'll reiterate Oct 28 10:13:57 jasta is right, this debate is semantically bankrupt :) Oct 28 10:14:03 it's just that writing a terminal emulator would require allocating a UNIX pty, which the Java userland can't do. Oct 28 10:14:04 and BruteSource, there is NO option in the default menuing of a retail T-mobile G1 to access a command line interface to the filesystem Oct 28 10:14:11 neekers they are windows users they dont even understand the terminology they are talking about Oct 28 10:14:46 tomgibara: yeah neither of these fools knows what the hell they are talking about. Oct 28 10:14:55 thanks jasta Oct 28 10:15:00 well it's true Oct 28 10:15:01 jasta_ please explain why the developers android has an app labeled terminal emulator in dev apps then? Oct 28 10:15:10 *sigh* Oct 28 10:15:21 BruteSource: because Google wrote a crude terminal emulator app, and that app could be loaded onto anyone's phone if you had it. Oct 28 10:15:31 and also, other people wrote crude terminal emulator apps Oct 28 10:15:35 so they could just load those ones too Oct 28 10:15:43 and of course there are SSH apps, so those "look" like terminal apps. Oct 28 10:15:53 whywas i able to use it to run top and change inits then? Oct 28 10:16:10 because you installed a crude terminal app and you ran it. Oct 28 10:16:15 can you putty into a G1 over usb? Oct 28 10:16:24 no this is the one on android Oct 28 10:16:34 BruteSource: "on android" meaning the emulator or the G1? Oct 28 10:16:48 he doesn't own a G1 Oct 28 10:16:59 and by the way straight from tldp.com if it is not a cli its a gui. period Oct 28 10:17:07 the source Oct 28 10:17:09 he believes everything on the emulator is exactly what the G1 has Oct 28 10:17:18 neekers: No because that would require sshd running on the device Oct 28 10:17:22 neither of the naive options you just said Oct 28 10:17:45 i dont even use a fucking emulator Oct 28 10:17:46 BruteSource: so can you explain what you mean? "on android" is the emulator? what precisely did you click on the emulator? Oct 28 10:17:53 tomgibara: ahh, yeah.. good point Oct 28 10:18:04 omg you guys are stupd Oct 28 10:18:12 BruteSource, what are you running android on? what hardware? Oct 28 10:18:18 BruteSource: Android is a platform, not a phone, do you understand that? Oct 28 10:18:25 it isn't the emulator either. Oct 28 10:18:33 i compiled the kernel for my device as well as the userspace for my device Oct 28 10:18:50 Android as a platform can do whatever the hell you want it to do. so i don't relaly know what you're saying. Oct 28 10:18:57 i did not add anything to the userspace Oct 28 10:19:13 BruteSource, what device? make and model? Oct 28 10:19:17 so you're saying the source tree includes a terminal app? yeah, i think that it does in fact. Oct 28 10:19:25 the terminal emulator is a real terminal emulator trust me. Oct 28 10:19:36 and no, it's not a real terminal emulator. trust _me_. Oct 28 10:19:45 your a fool Oct 28 10:19:57 the version that google wrote is just a crude process interaction app Oct 28 10:19:58 im not ven listening to you anymore Oct 28 10:20:11 a real terminal emulator would allocate a UNIX pty Oct 28 10:20:17 which android's java userland cannot do, as i said. Oct 28 10:20:29 only with a JNI layer could you do this, and to my knowledge, no one has written such a library Oct 28 10:20:41 no its not, it can pass commands to the kernel, i halted my device with it, i started top with it, i su'd with it Oct 28 10:20:52 that is not a terminal emulator Oct 28 10:21:06 a terminal emulator emulates a dumb video terminal. it implements a very particular protocol to do that. Oct 28 10:21:09 it does not merely run commands Oct 28 10:21:27 if you want evidence of this, try running an app using ncurses with your "terminal" Oct 28 10:21:49 it will fail :) Oct 28 10:21:51 if it emulates everything a terminal can do its a terminal emulator, period. look it up. Oct 28 10:22:14 there's something called 'Terminal Emulator' in dev tools Oct 28 10:22:31 so it oesnt support ncurses, that just means its a terminal emulator without ncurses Oct 28 10:22:35 BruteSource: ok, if you run an app that calls isatty() will it return 1? Oct 28 10:22:40 well, i still have this darn application popping up toast dialogs every minute.... Oct 28 10:22:58 yes i know muthu, he doesnt understand at he is going on about. Oct 28 10:23:09 hehe, no, i do understand. Oct 28 10:23:14 not sure if its bundled with G1 Oct 28 10:23:17 i know precisely what a terminal emulator is, and i know that google idd not produce one Oct 28 10:23:20 despite them naively calling it such Oct 28 10:23:45 he uses windows, bought a g1 and thinks he knows about linux now, we are going to see alot of this in the future. Oct 28 10:24:09 BruteSource: ok, well you do me a favor. man isatty Oct 28 10:24:13 compile a program that calls isatty Oct 28 10:24:16 neekers, hold down the HOME button, the last (6?) apps you used will show. pick the one that's your issue, and then when it comes up, see if there's a method IN the app, the end/exit it, or stop the functionality that's bothering you... Oct 28 10:24:18 yes they just named it "terminal emulator" to be ironic huh? Oct 28 10:24:18 and run it with your "terminal emulator" Oct 28 10:24:20 you tell me what it returns. Oct 28 10:24:41 because i know that it returns 0. i have used google's terminal emulator app. it is a misnomer. Oct 28 10:24:50 it merely opens processes and writes to them / reads from them. Oct 28 10:24:50 jasta_: I don't think there's much to gain by pressing this Oct 28 10:25:18 yes and thats the defenition of emulation Oct 28 10:25:39 BruteSource: so you think isatty only returns true on real dumb video terminals? :) Oct 28 10:26:29 languish: thanks, i just tired that. there is no method in the app yet to exit the app. i haven't written one yet, that's what i'm tryiing to figure out how to do Oct 28 10:26:32 i dont care hat works ad what doesnt, thats just the quality of the emulator, not if it is an emulator or not. Oct 28 10:26:47 tomgibara: this is really amusing to me. being that i know so much about this topic he knows nothing of :) Oct 28 10:27:00 jasta_: That is evident. Oct 28 10:27:01 your arguing symantics, so i am done. Oct 28 10:27:15 is it? Oct 28 10:27:22 and he spells semantics like the anti-virus company Oct 28 10:27:36 heh Oct 28 10:28:17 tomgibara: incidentally, i did work on producing a real terminal emulator for android. i quit because i realized that the G1 would be so locked down that getting a shell was useless ;) Oct 28 10:28:24 yes my spelling of course for english being my 3rd language should be perfect Oct 28 10:29:00 tomgibara: but maybe if someone gets a custom image flashed i will take another crack at it. it's really simple, you just need a JNI library that can pass through to ioctl for you. Oct 28 10:29:01 what are you're first 2 languages? Oct 28 10:29:12 this way you can allocate a UNIX pty to your java layer and use it Oct 28 10:29:18 your even Oct 28 10:29:19 it woulnt be useless a month in after the device has been rooted Oct 28 10:29:29 c and java Oct 28 10:29:32 BruteSource, just to note. The app you call a terminal emulator, was not made an accessible option on the G1's T-mobile sells to customers. It may be "in the firmware" or can be added as an installable .apk, or accessed by attaching to usb and running adb Oct 28 10:29:36 just kidding Oct 28 10:30:06 arabic and persian Oct 28 10:30:11 ahh Oct 28 10:30:32 do you live in iran? Oct 28 10:30:52 jasta_: Yes it's a small gap to bridge Oct 28 10:30:57 i live in portland oregon Oct 28 10:31:05 well there's your problem ;) Oct 28 10:31:06 i see Oct 28 10:31:17 tomgibara: i'm hoping the native SDK comes out soon-ish so we can do this really nicely Oct 28 10:31:19 i dont have a problem Oct 28 10:31:46 i have been on linux since redhat minix 1 Oct 28 10:31:52 i live in seattle, i'm caucasian, but i almost married an iranian girl when i was in college, her name was roya Oct 28 10:31:53 ooops no redhat Oct 28 10:32:01 neekers: ditto ;) Oct 28 10:32:04 i mean, about the first two. Oct 28 10:32:06 minix 1 Oct 28 10:32:10 jasta_: I'm looking forward to the native SDK so that I can rework my image processing algos into C. Oct 28 10:32:20 she told me roya meant "sweet dreams" Oct 28 10:32:27 i was going to say redhat, forgot to delete it Oct 28 10:32:36 she was very sweet Oct 28 10:33:03 neekers: do you live in seattle proper? Oct 28 10:33:23 neekers, did you get the application stopped? Oct 28 10:33:27 anyways the emulator dies use a crude method to emulate, but it still emulates, therefor is by defenition a terminal emulator Oct 28 10:33:35 jasta_: actually i live in issaquah, on tiger mountain Oct 28 10:33:46 and thats all that needs to be said Oct 28 10:33:48 ahh Oct 28 10:34:03 neekers: i'm in north seattle area, south of northgate Oct 28 10:34:07 also saying menus isnt a gui is just retarded Oct 28 10:34:17 languish: not yet but i think i found some code to exit an application, i'll have it coded up shortly... :o) Oct 28 10:34:19 neekers: there's another regular in #android who lives on capital hill Oct 28 10:34:35 i am near seattle now Oct 28 10:34:44 tacoma washington Oct 28 10:34:45 jasta_: do you guys go to school over there? Oct 28 10:34:59 about 30 miles south Oct 28 10:35:09 neekers: no, i'm 25 ;) Oct 28 10:35:17 ahh Oct 28 10:35:45 jasta do you know western washington? Oct 28 10:35:53 wwu i mean Oct 28 10:36:05 north of you in bellingham? Oct 28 10:36:54 neekers: actually three's one more too. the guy behind slideme.org is from Seattle Oct 28 10:37:03 he also wrote the android maven plugin (masa) Oct 28 10:37:43 what do you guys think about having an android app that interfaces with a subscriptoin website? Oct 28 10:38:14 what do you mean specifically? Oct 28 10:38:19 a paid subscription website Oct 28 10:38:36 i dont know why i'd have any feelings about that. not like i'm required to install it :) Oct 28 10:38:59 languish you correct there is no dev apps at all included in commercial release, sorry i was incorrect. Oct 28 10:39:10 * languish facepalms Oct 28 10:39:16 well, i'm creating a website that costs $7.99 to use and it requires either an android app or a j2me app to use the website Oct 28 10:39:32 i hope it does more than just take your money :) Oct 28 10:39:41 $7.99 per month Oct 28 10:39:49 yes, it does... :o) Oct 28 10:40:15 porn? Oct 28 10:40:19 * jasta_ deploys the latest build of five and starts syncing his music from scratch Oct 28 10:40:25 *waiting* :) Oct 28 10:40:37 i have some open source stuff on sourceforge.com that is pretty popular and i have my reputation to uphold Oct 28 10:40:48 no, it's a gps tracking website Oct 28 10:41:13 neekers: i think people care about your reputation less than you do, honestly. Oct 28 10:41:31 neekers: There may be restrictions on that in the Google Maps API TOS, I can't remember Oct 28 10:41:52 jasta_: you're probably right, but i have to live with myself Oct 28 10:42:14 your upset that i admitted i was wrong? Oct 28 10:42:21 tomgibira: i think you are right Oct 28 10:43:32 BruteSource, no.. I just see this as a semi-regular event. You say something, someone corrects you, a... discussion ensues, you eventually realize you were wrong, you applogize, rinse and repeat. :/ Oct 28 10:44:10 *apologize Oct 28 10:44:15 it happened twice? Oct 28 10:44:21 but okay lol Oct 28 10:44:21 basically what i am doing is creating a subscription website that tracks people, it's the same as my open source app so it's actuallly freely available, but i get so many requests from non programmers that i really need to create a subscription site for all the non coders Oct 28 10:44:26 :D Oct 28 10:44:29 sorry for being human Oct 28 10:44:47 don't be, it's entertaining Oct 28 10:44:55 neekers: Tracks people for what purpose? Oct 28 10:46:10 tomgibara: it allows someone to put an app on a cell phone and track them on google maps on a website, so a parent can track a kid or an employer can track an employee Oct 28 10:46:12 i only thought it did since i was under the impression the release code was identical to what is on g1 and the discussion i just had with swetland about the terminal emulator Oct 28 10:46:37 neekers: Then that's probably in violation of the TOS (IANAL blah blah blah) Oct 28 10:46:38 just like shaperone already does Oct 28 10:46:53 my open source app has been downloaded 50,000 times so what i'm doing now is feverishly creating a G1 client for my app Oct 28 10:47:07 from the TOS: ...but you are not permitted to use the Maps APIs to create \ldblquote Business Asset Tracking\rdblquote applications... Oct 28 10:47:27 (that includes people) Oct 28 10:47:40 maybe he isnt using the maps app Oct 28 10:47:47 api Oct 28 10:48:08 tomgibara: i have been through this ad nauseum in the google maps forum, what i'm doing doesnt break the TOS Oct 28 10:48:50 tracking a cell phone is ok, tracking a *vehicle* requires an enterprise license from google Oct 28 10:48:53 i wouldnt think so since there are numerous services like this already Oct 28 10:49:11 Well, I'm not going to argue because I have no legal training - I'd just point out that the TOS for Android are different from those for Google Maps Oct 28 10:50:09 The TOS go on to say: ...that track or locate business or government users\rquote field sales or field service personnel Oct 28 10:50:39 yeah, they want you to purchase the enterprise license for $10,000 dollars Oct 28 10:50:53 wow Oct 28 10:51:07 when you start using google maps for a business Oct 28 10:51:46 okay off to sleep Oct 28 10:53:08 sleep? it's only 4am... :o) Oct 28 10:53:33 6:53am here :/ Oct 28 10:53:43 and I still don't see any sun :( Oct 28 10:53:50 languish: you are in the east coast? Oct 28 10:53:56 yeah, ny Oct 28 10:54:12 ahh Oct 28 10:54:19 this.finish(); is what i think i need Oct 28 10:54:26 ahh Oct 28 10:54:27 heh Oct 28 10:54:47 Wish I could have done that sooner with... ahh nevermind Oct 28 11:07:06 to languish: you usually work at night time? Oct 28 11:07:15 languish: you usually work at night time? Oct 28 11:08:37 is that a long weekend there? Oct 28 11:08:37 neekers, no, I work during the day, but review things at night. And I mostly just don't sleep much. Oct 28 11:08:46 everyone seems to be awake Oct 28 11:09:05 how can you survive without sleep? Oct 28 11:09:20 *shrug* been like this since I was 6 Oct 28 11:09:33 i usually need about 8 hours a day Oct 28 11:09:38 2 hours/night and I'm solid Oct 28 11:09:44 wow Oct 28 11:10:01 don't worry, I'll likely die early for it Oct 28 11:10:27 i've read lots of studies on sleep deprivation... Oct 28 11:10:45 2 hours is certainly pushing the envelope Oct 28 11:10:55 neekers: it depends Oct 28 11:10:59 not everyone needs 8 hrs Oct 28 11:11:02 I'm quite capable of taking looong sleep periods, but.. I just haven't had the need to to be functional Oct 28 11:11:06 that's true Oct 28 11:11:23 2 hrs might be perfectly fine for some Oct 28 11:12:13 Yeah, when I sleep I'm practically comatic Oct 28 11:12:25 muthu: how many hours do you average? Oct 28 11:12:38 but if I have to wake up, I do naturally Oct 28 11:12:46 4 to 5 max Oct 28 11:13:24 do you need an alarm to wake up, or do just find yourself awake and not tired after 4 or 5 hours? Oct 28 11:14:06 would like to sleep more.. Oct 28 11:14:25 yeah, that's how I feel if I oversleep Oct 28 11:14:26 i sleep when i'm tired. i work from home. i like sleeping especially if i have a hard problem to solve, i sleep on it and let my mind work on it while i'm sleeping Oct 28 11:15:03 lol! Oct 28 11:15:35 Protect our precious, precious DRMd ringtones by only allowing decoding of http, but not filesystem paths or content Uris. Oct 28 11:15:54 comment in the mediaplayerservice.cpp Oct 28 11:17:02 hehe Oct 28 11:17:48 my precioussss Oct 28 11:18:26 okay off to work .. ttyal Oct 28 11:18:51 later Oct 28 11:21:45 if i want to store a username/password to log into a website, should i use a preference or do i need to use sqlLite? Oct 28 11:22:23 either is ok Oct 28 11:22:36 which is less work? :o) Oct 28 11:22:54 preferences Oct 28 11:23:35 thanks Oct 28 11:24:18 ok, i've figured out how to add a menu to my app and now i think i can add a little exit routine Oct 28 11:25:02 i probalby should have started learning a while back but i wanted to wait until i actually had a phone Oct 28 11:25:31 yeah, good timing Oct 28 11:30:08 what do you guys think of azure? too little too late? Oct 28 11:30:27 what's azure? Oct 28 11:30:34 cloud computing in MS words Oct 28 11:30:44 oh Oct 28 11:30:50 it's all bs... Oct 28 11:30:57 well, it is microsoft, they have a habit of coming up from behind and dominating Oct 28 11:30:59 reactionary to google appengine. Oct 28 11:31:13 hmm Oct 28 11:31:17 it's the eqivalent of the amazon cloud Oct 28 11:31:25 for windows Oct 28 11:31:34 microsoft can't win because of the closed mindset Oct 28 11:32:02 i don't get it... azure means tinted blue like the sky... devoid of clouds. Oct 28 11:32:07 yet it's for cloud computing? Oct 28 11:32:15 very strange nomenclature. Oct 28 11:32:44 well, there will be 3 major clouds now, amazon, google and microsoft... azure is the reason that amazon started windows in thier cloud last week Oct 28 11:33:07 ah i see Oct 28 11:33:15 each will have significant market share Oct 28 11:34:27 yeah there's a lot of .net stuff running Oct 28 11:34:52 so I've been gorging on Market items on my G1. Is all of that stored on the phone's internal memory? Or does it get stored on the SD card? Oct 28 11:35:00 appengine needs to expand to other languages Oct 28 11:35:26 kslater: all apps live in internal memory Oct 28 11:35:35 hmm Oct 28 11:35:42 seems like we'll all be running out Oct 28 11:35:54 muthu: apparently that is in the works? Oct 28 11:35:57 what i've been wondering is what happens when there are thousands of app on the market, how will you ever find stuff... Oct 28 11:36:14 landslide: guess so Oct 28 11:36:40 and I just got a low memory message from the phone. LOL Oct 28 11:36:42 neekers: isn't there a search? Oct 28 11:37:13 muthu: i think so... Oct 28 11:38:36 muthu: rumour is that it'll be java. Oct 28 11:39:04 kslater: how many apps do you have loaded? Oct 28 11:39:12 too many I guess Oct 28 11:39:14 hehe Oct 28 11:39:23 I'd guess 20 or so? Oct 28 11:39:35 ahh Oct 28 11:39:40 * kslater thought it was an all you can eat buffet Oct 28 11:39:44 how many running? Oct 28 11:39:58 landslide: makes sense Oct 28 11:40:08 not many at all Oct 28 11:40:25 I try to keep that number as low as possible, but some apps don't seem to have a way to exit Oct 28 11:42:00 yes, that is the exact problem i'm dealing with Oct 28 11:43:07 neekers 29 installed apps Oct 28 11:43:23 i found an android book that actually covers 1.0 Oct 28 11:43:26 some of which I only loaded to check out. I'll do a little house cleaning Oct 28 11:43:31 http://commonsware.com/Android/?p=developerlife Oct 28 11:43:55 sounds like a good plan Oct 28 11:44:00 i don't get why they market windows azure as using "popular standards and protocols including SOAP, REST and XML"... how is that relevant? most of microsoft's standards usage are heavily extended... have you ever seen an xsd generated by visual studio? Oct 28 11:44:20 there are so many microsoft extensions, the core xsd is useless. Oct 28 11:45:00 soap is dead... well, maybe not in the enterprise, but it's certainly not used much on web Oct 28 11:45:14 hey, I saw someone mention clearing the browser's cache. This must be internal memory, right? How does one do that? Oct 28 11:45:30 i've been using JSON for everything because it's lean and mean. Oct 28 11:45:43 kslater: i saw that in setting somewhere Oct 28 11:45:56 it deletes all the apps except for the default apps Oct 28 11:46:19 landslide: i agree, json is very nice Oct 28 11:47:05 i like the way how json is automatically an object in javascript Oct 28 11:47:14 the word SOAP is wrong Oct 28 11:47:18 remove the leading S Oct 28 11:47:24 haha.. Oct 28 11:47:26 misnomer Oct 28 11:47:27 and replace it with D Oct 28 11:47:32 DIFFICULT Oct 28 11:47:39 doapy Oct 28 11:47:40 or COMPLEX Oct 28 11:47:45 :) Oct 28 11:48:41 json is lightweight Oct 28 11:48:51 i like it very much Oct 28 11:49:00 using it where i can Oct 28 11:49:04 but i also have to use soap Oct 28 11:49:07 and i HATE it Oct 28 11:49:26 i think this is what happens with 'trend' technologies.. They solve specific problems, but the hype following them means they are applied in all sorts of places that arn't relevant. Oct 28 11:49:42 yap Oct 28 11:50:04 solutions don't often transition across problem spaces... that's why people use the best tool for the job at hand. Oct 28 11:50:19 no point using a screwdriver when you need a hammer. Oct 28 11:50:33 the same is happening with REST. Oct 28 11:51:31 :) Oct 28 11:51:38 you'll see people applying that structure in all sorts of places where it doesn't fit. It's an idealism... Oct 28 11:51:38 defenitly Oct 28 11:51:42 anyway enough ranting. Oct 28 11:51:47 hehe Oct 28 11:51:53 * cutmasta is away now for lunch Oct 28 11:51:54 i have used json a number of times, but i mostly just use raw xml most of the time, i use sql server a lot and it can build xml in a query, makes things nice and easy Oct 28 11:51:56 bbl Oct 28 11:53:48 true, a project running where I work is using .NET datasets with all the automatic change management using diffgrams, etc... I almost fell off my chair after seeing how the IDE generates stored procs for updates. Oct 28 11:54:23 it really is a mess, but it makes sense if you're trying to apply a solution for all cases... so try and do something similar and you're carrying the baggage of concurrency and integrity... all that jazz. Oct 28 11:55:24 i love sql server, i've been using it for about 10 years, the past 2 years i had to use mysql, it has NO xml support, what a pain in the @ss that was.... Oct 28 11:55:41 so microsoft layer another technology on top, bloat it all to solve these problems... hence ado.net's entity framework. Oct 28 11:56:08 neekers: yeah the in-built xml support is VERY useful. Oct 28 11:56:31 i use .net extensively to build websites but i *do not* use ado.net Oct 28 11:56:46 you're right, it is total bloatware Oct 28 11:59:39 i've developed a nice framework using dotnetnuke and yahoo YUI on the front end to make nice website that look good minus the bloat Oct 28 12:00:18 the android routing project i'm building right now will integrate with one of these websites Oct 28 12:00:34 that sounds cool, what does the routing project actually route? Oct 28 12:01:27 i have 2 projects i'm working on, one will track employees, kids etc and the second is used to plan routes for trucks Oct 28 12:01:57 sounds like projects we are working too, who are you working for? Oct 28 12:03:48 the first project is actually a subscription website of an open source project i have on sourceforge, it's been downloaded 50,000 times and i keep getting requests on youtube from non developers, so i am making a paid version Oct 28 12:03:49 especially the truck routing.. the company i work for is touchstargroup.com Oct 28 12:04:06 that's fantastic. Oct 28 12:04:11 the truck routing is fleetsweep.com Oct 28 12:04:42 i've been building that site for 2 years now Oct 28 12:05:02 big job... do you deal with the energy market? Oct 28 12:05:27 no, it acutally is with street sweeping trucks Oct 28 12:05:40 ah.. doh ;) hehe. Oct 28 12:05:57 but the site is generic enough to be *easily* converted to any type of trucking business Oct 28 12:06:02 so you're based out of seattle? Oct 28 12:06:05 yes Oct 28 12:07:18 wow, sounds like a nice niche market. Oct 28 12:07:49 makes sense too, there must be a lot of wasted resource (ie. overlap) in big cities. Oct 28 12:07:52 so do you consider yourself a competitor of gearworks.com and xora.com? Oct 28 12:08:30 yes, i am working with a couple of guys who run a large street sweeping company and manufacture street sweeping trucks Oct 28 12:08:50 hmm make is complaining about not finding javac ... Oct 28 12:09:46 landslide: touchstar is pretty extensive Oct 28 12:09:59 so theres a new update out eh? Oct 28 12:10:08 more so with xora, but location is just one facet of the business. Oct 28 12:10:31 we really grew up in the energy industry, but there are lots of smaller competitors growing up.. the market is maturing. Oct 28 12:11:20 i've had lots of dealings with xora... Oct 28 12:11:55 i know the guys who built thier vehicle route optimization package Oct 28 12:15:05 cool, I actually work in the australian division... but work pretty closely with the US offices. Locally, pioneered a lot of the mobile technology over the past 15 years or so... So the north american competitors i'm not too familiar with. :) Oct 28 12:16:00 what is your average cost for tracking and scheduling a resource? Oct 28 12:16:17 ballpark figures Oct 28 12:17:15 the people i'm partnering with want to charge $79 dollars a truck but i think that is to much Oct 28 12:17:43 much more than what xora charges Oct 28 12:17:46 bah stupid windows/cygwin Oct 28 12:17:49 that, i couldn't tell you... I'm far too much on the technical side. Oct 28 12:17:56 is that per month? Oct 28 12:17:58 ahh, i see Oct 28 12:18:06 yes, per month Oct 28 12:18:25 i think it should be more like $39 per truck per month Oct 28 12:18:42 i know some of our competitors here in australia are charging around 50-60AUD for a full application and hosted solution. Oct 28 12:18:51 location is just one aspect. Oct 28 12:19:05 whats an aud compared to us? Oct 28 12:19:12 that is like a field service application. Oct 28 12:19:40 right now it's hard to compare... two months ago the AUD to USD was almost at parity (98c to the dollar) now it's like 60c... Oct 28 12:19:53 ahh Oct 28 12:20:21 landslide: so what are you doing with android? Oct 28 12:20:49 the economy is really screwed up ;) strange thing is australia is positioned really well being driven by the resource sector and heavily involved with china... no idea why our dollar tanked... Oct 28 12:20:53 something we don't know I guess. Oct 28 12:21:00 not being told by the powers that be. Oct 28 12:21:06 oh.. Oct 28 12:21:17 i'm looking at it as an alternative to windows ce. Oct 28 12:21:24 so your company told you to just learn android? Oct 28 12:21:28 i think it has plenty of technical merits... it's amazing. Oct 28 12:21:34 nah i'm going about it on my own account. Oct 28 12:21:55 i'm usually thinking about things that might happen in the business in a couple of years or so. Oct 28 12:22:06 well for me, after 2 years of j2me programming, i'm really happy to be working with android Oct 28 12:22:17 google have a way with simplification. Oct 28 12:22:18 landslide: exactly Oct 28 12:22:25 actually it's an elegance... Oct 28 12:23:17 their technology is not too simple and it's not overly complex... they seem to exist in that sweat-spot... so far anyway. Oct 28 12:23:29 i've been impressed with the chromium source too.. it has my attention ;) Oct 28 12:24:30 chrome kinda cracks me up, it's like the browser of choice for pron surfers... :o) Oct 28 12:24:40 mmm sweat spot Oct 28 12:25:21 they have the benefit of sitting back and really thinking about problems from the ground up.. with little thought or need for legacy... the model for processes, intents and parcels.. solve major issues with the footprint of mobile devices. it really is an elegant solution. Oct 28 12:25:53 yeah... that's what you get when you have an endless supply of money... Oct 28 12:26:26 haha. sweat-spot.. that had to be freudian.. hehe. Oct 28 12:27:50 hehehe Oct 28 12:28:07 anyone has a MediaScanner code snippet ? Oct 28 12:28:30 im still trying to build in cygwin :P Oct 28 12:28:57 so far i'm a total n00b. i've built my own emulator image from the source. so i'm starting to play around at that level. the SDK tools are pretty good. Oct 28 12:29:02 what kind of media? Oct 28 12:29:04 make: *** No rule to make target `out/host/windows-x86/framework/droiddoc.jar', Oct 28 12:29:04 needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'. Stop. Oct 28 12:29:32 neerhaj: what kind of media? Oct 28 12:30:04 mediascanner.cpp probably Oct 28 12:30:07 jpg, png Oct 28 12:30:23 i want to see how to initiate a scan Oct 28 12:30:29 oh heh Oct 28 12:31:10 there is a camera demo in the android docs Oct 28 12:31:36 thanks , i'll look into that Oct 28 12:32:22 my goal here is to get the source compiled and add new low-level audio API calls Oct 28 12:33:45 such as a tone generator that isn't limited to their enumerated list and calls to the raw audio buffer, and maybe even playback speed functions directly Oct 28 12:34:11 that should at least make some cool audio java applications possible Oct 28 12:37:00 can anybody help me with that error I posted above? Oct 28 12:38:11 DJ: where is the makefile? Oct 28 12:39:56 i pretty much followed the directions for linux but on cygwin, so i have a mydroid in my home cygwin folder Oct 28 12:40:17 so Makefile is right there, i am checking some of my cygwin packages to make sure i have everything Oct 28 12:41:15 oh jesus .. i forgot mingw/gcc :P Oct 28 12:43:17 i didn't think they supported building android from cygwin? Oct 28 12:43:58 they dont Oct 28 12:44:00 :P Oct 28 12:44:29 but im too lazy to break my 64-bit gentoo ULTRA1 SPARC out of moving boxes ;) Oct 28 12:44:35 But if you get it to build and run we'll gladly accept patches. Oct 28 12:45:23 jbq_: heres a question, assuming from that comment that you work for google. Supposed someone submits a patch for a phone app, is there any timeline on when that app will then be updated on everyones phones? Oct 28 12:45:28 Don't count on being able to get it to work on the sparc, though - for now it's pretty much exclusively 32-bit x86. Oct 28 12:45:33 Yes I work for Google. Oct 28 12:45:38 hehe Oct 28 12:45:47 is it possible to have an application start up when the phone is turned on? Oct 28 12:45:59 im on x64 windows xp so this should be even more difficult :P Oct 28 12:47:01 Dougie187: it depends on so many factors that it's pretty much impossible to answer. Oct 28 12:47:25 jbq: well, is there a timeline on how often you guys are planning to update phone regularly? Oct 28 12:47:39 hmm wonder if I should use the windows jdk or the cygwin java compiler Oct 28 12:47:50 the windows jdk im using is x64 Oct 28 12:48:09 Dougie187: well, Google doesn't make phones, so it's really up to the OEMs and carriers... Oct 28 12:48:25 (it's a very complex industry) Oct 28 12:48:30 jbq: so for patches, do you submit the patch to the carrier who then has to test it and apply it to all the phones? Oct 28 12:48:59 That's likely to be the case in may situations, yes. Oct 28 12:49:04 s/may/many/ Oct 28 12:49:06 jbq meant: That's likely to be the case in many situations, yes. Oct 28 12:49:46 jbq: do you know if an app can be started when the phone starts up? Oct 28 12:49:48 jbq: im just curious how the whole patching scheme works. That way we can have a basic idea of how long we should expect our patches (assuming they are not patches that introduce more bugs and fail testing) would take to be applied to phones. Oct 28 12:50:31 neekers: yes. An Intent gets broadcast at the end of the boot sequence. You can have a receiver for it. You need a permission for it. Oct 28 12:50:47 ahh, ok, thank you Oct 28 12:51:02 DJTachyon: by cygwin java compiler do you mean gcj? That usually doesn't turn out well. But maybe it works for Android stuff? Oct 28 12:51:09 I'd be surprised actually. Oct 28 12:51:16 android.intent.action.BOOT_COMPLETED Oct 28 12:51:58 thanks Oct 28 12:52:15 np Oct 28 12:52:44 i am so happy with android, j2me can blow it out my rear end Oct 28 12:52:56 Dougie187: you'll be counting in months for sure (except for some emergency security patches). I can't guess how many months. Oct 28 12:53:00 argh still getting that error Oct 28 12:53:31 i don't suppose there's like a logging console? Oct 28 12:53:42 jbq: i figured months would be the measure. Do you guys know how often you plan on giving carriers minor version patches? Oct 28 12:53:58 jbq: or is that not going to be a standard time interval? Oct 28 12:54:14 neekers, I was just listening to Java Posse last night and they talked about the requirements for some J2ME app Oct 28 12:54:20 too many details Oct 28 12:54:29 too much complexity and variance in devices Oct 28 12:54:34 Why would they "give" carriers versions when everyone has access to the repo? Oct 28 12:55:06 and I'd be classified as a Java fan boy Oct 28 12:55:16 howdy Oct 28 12:56:06 Dougie187: I don't have much visibility in that process, to be honest. They'll be able to get individual changes from the source code repository for sure. Oct 28 12:56:28 jbq: ok. Thanks Oct 28 12:56:43 the final thing that really pissed me off with j2me was i had purchased a razr2 from sprint to do some gps development and i then found out that sprint blocks gps to developers on all of thier cdma phones, but not iden phones, they wanted 5000 DOLLARS from me to become a partner so that i could get the gps api on my razr.... bunch of @sshats. Oct 28 12:56:48 Good morning, jbq. Have you slept yet, or did you move east? Oct 28 12:56:58 hmm still getting this: make: *** No rule to make target `out/host/windows-x86/framework/droiddoc.jar', needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'. Stop. Oct 28 12:57:13 TreyB: I have slept, and I'm still in sunny CA (well, for a few more days, rain is coming). Oct 28 12:57:34 the weather is miserable here in NJ/NYC Oct 28 12:57:42 same here in PA Oct 28 12:57:45 neekers: carriers do things like that all the time. it's standard practice Oct 28 12:58:10 yea its pouring in downtown NYC Oct 28 12:58:11 it took me months of pestering sprint to get them to take the razr back and cancel my account without the termination fee but they finally did Oct 28 12:58:38 michaelnovakjr: you see the new sprint plans? Oct 28 12:58:42 nope Oct 28 12:58:50 i bought a verizon xv6900 with built in GPS. Verizon wants an extra 9.99 per month to activate its GPS Oct 28 12:58:50 michaelnovakjr: check it out. http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sprint11208plansig0.jpg Oct 28 12:58:51 smr: yes, i know, it's quite disgusting... that's why i'm hoping that android will level the playing field Oct 28 12:59:02 Down here in Houston we got our first taste of "winter": 44F and clear skies. Oct 28 12:59:21 TreyB: its 42F here in Florida and clear skies as well. heh Oct 28 12:59:25 I had to scrape my car windsheild today for the first time this season :( Oct 28 13:00:38 I'm really struggling with writing my first Android app Oct 28 13:01:11 Turn the backlight on and use it as a scraper in the dark ;-) Oct 28 13:01:20 smr: what's it do? Oct 28 13:01:23 i got about 50% done with my first one before I realized I will have to add new API calls to the low-level audio sub-system :P Oct 28 13:01:42 The problem is just that there isn't enough documentation out on it yet Oct 28 13:02:32 Either it's that or there are some missing features in the API. Right now I'm trying to open an asset or raw resource in random access mode Oct 28 13:03:02 smr what app are you writing Oct 28 13:03:03 I can only get an InputStream or a file descriptor. I can't find out how to get random access from either of those Oct 28 13:03:17 Dougie187: 99 for everything is pretty good Oct 28 13:03:29 yeah, or the everything family. Oct 28 13:03:31 Well, I'm writing a game. I need to be able to load a binary 3D model file. Oct 28 13:03:42 1500 minutes with unlimited data and messaging for 70 Oct 28 13:03:52 and that comes with BBIS, and GPS Navigation. Oct 28 13:03:59 and 2 lines Oct 28 13:04:33 just no android :( Oct 28 13:04:33 thats not bad Dougie187 Oct 28 13:04:33 its better than the old SERO plans. Oct 28 13:04:33 I could load the entire file into one big bytebuffer, but that seems dumb. If I could get a randomaccessfile that would be optimal Oct 28 13:04:41 michaelnovakjr: i know, but that will come at some points. Oct 28 13:04:47 Delvien: yeah i know, pretty sweet. Oct 28 13:04:53 michaelnovakjr: get you an HTC Vogue and you can run android on it Oct 28 13:05:05 ill be excited when turn by turn is integrated into the gps google maps Oct 28 13:05:06 Sprint sells the vogue Oct 28 13:05:14 smr i wrote a bunch of software for it... i had one.... it wasn't that great :) Oct 28 13:05:26 I am running android on my vogue now Oct 28 13:05:29 michaelnovakjr: i want android on a Touch Pro Oct 28 13:05:30 Dougie187: i pay about 50 for 300 mins unlim txt/web Oct 28 13:05:39 smr, i ran android m5 on the vogue Oct 28 13:05:43 smr: http://www.helloandroid.com/forum?c=showthread&ThreadID=35 Oct 28 13:05:45 i have a moto Q I would like to see android on :) Oct 28 13:05:47 android was good, the phone just sucks Oct 28 13:05:49 Delvien yeah, my wife and I together pay 70 a month for 500 mins each and unlimited text/web. Oct 28 13:05:51 m5 was teh suck. Oct 28 13:06:08 smr: didnt read that carefully but the answer might be there Oct 28 13:06:37 It's decent with the new version. A guy down in NZ is doing most of the porting. It's coming along. Once the input framework is complete we can have a proper on-screen keyboard Oct 28 13:06:57 thanks let me try it Oct 28 13:07:07 well that is being integrated into the android os already Oct 28 13:07:20 or are you trying to beat them to it?:) Oct 28 13:07:33 cool! I know it's scheduled for a 2009 deliverable. I wonder when it'll get in the SDK Oct 28 13:07:36 smr, is it using the built in sms? Oct 28 13:07:45 michael: yes Oct 28 13:07:53 that is good Oct 28 13:07:56 it's been reworked for CDMA though Oct 28 13:08:01 m5 didn;t have one so i wrote one Oct 28 13:08:01 man, michaelnovakjr whats up with your client? Oct 28 13:08:05 ? Oct 28 13:08:37 you keep leaving and rejoining. Oct 28 13:08:43 yea? Oct 28 13:08:47 neekers: thanks! it's not really what I'm looking for though. I don't want to have to reed the local file system Oct 28 13:09:00 ahh Oct 28 13:09:06 I want to use the getAsset or openRawResource Oct 28 13:09:32 i saw openrawResource in there Oct 28 13:09:49 down towards the bottom Oct 28 13:10:14 still looking... :) thanks! Oct 28 13:10:59 argh Oct 28 13:11:03 no, I don't think it has the answer :( Oct 28 13:11:10 still can't get a compile in cygwin :P Oct 28 13:11:19 so is there a irc client working on the g1 yet? Oct 28 13:11:21 DJTachyon: don't have vmware? Oct 28 13:11:24 make: *** No rule to make target `out/host/windows-x86/framework/droiddoc.jar', needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'. Stop. Oct 28 13:11:26 why don't you compile in linux? Oct 28 13:11:28 Delvien, working on it Oct 28 13:11:35 I use andLinux on windows Oct 28 13:11:38 because im too lazy to get my nix machine up Oct 28 13:11:44 It's so easy Oct 28 13:11:45 Delvien: there is an IRC client Oct 28 13:11:48 d03boy: whats your client called? Oct 28 13:11:52 ircell Oct 28 13:11:53 its floating around somewhere Oct 28 13:11:58 michaelnovakjr: that works? Oct 28 13:12:05 i'm pretty sure Oct 28 13:12:21 one of the forum sites has it i believe Oct 28 13:12:29 andLinux eh? Oct 28 13:12:31 djtachyon: andlinux.org. Simple setup to get linux running within windows. Oct 28 13:12:33 Yes Oct 28 13:12:38 michaelnovakjr: the two i know of are ircell and androidcxhat neither instasll.or are finiahed Oct 28 13:12:39 oh interesting .. Oct 28 13:12:41 It's just one install file Oct 28 13:13:11 d03boy: oh. i left a comment on your site. Oct 28 13:13:24 im sure I read it :) Oct 28 13:13:30 sweet .. ill give it a shot .. thanks Oct 28 13:13:40 You'll get a minimal ubuntu installation. You'll have apt-get and synaptic. Those make it easy to get your android toolchain built Oct 28 13:13:47 does this run in vmware? Oct 28 13:14:06 Plus it integrates with your windows desktop, so you can have X11 windows and MS windows up at the same time Oct 28 13:14:10 No, it uses colinux Oct 28 13:14:18 it does not use VMWare Oct 28 13:14:40 d03boy: anticipating it very much. my only concern is how much net traffic it will create (battery life concerns me) Oct 28 13:14:58 nifty Oct 28 13:15:27 d03boy: im sshed to my server atm asnd it burns a lil bat because od the i/o Oct 28 13:15:38 of * Oct 28 13:15:44 Delvien, not much you can really do about that though. Yeah, ssh has to do encryption so I'd imagine ti uses a bit more resources Oct 28 13:15:48 You will need to make your linux drive image larger though. It comes with a 2 gig image. You'll probably want to extend it to 40 gigs Oct 28 13:16:11 im remote desktop'd through the telnet port from work ;) Oct 28 13:16:44 apparently IT hasn't noticed 150k/sec of binary traffic through port 23 :P Oct 28 13:16:48 d03boy: how far is the project? Oct 28 13:17:16 me too! my work blocks just about everything except the standard ones. I use ssh to get home. With tunneling I can do whatever I want Oct 28 13:17:58 hehe Oct 28 13:18:31 Delvien, not that far. The hardest parts are to handle the disconnections and the layout itself Oct 28 13:18:51 Delvien, I really have only started in the last day or two though Oct 28 13:19:14 d03boy: cool. cant wait to see it :) Oct 28 13:19:43 has anyone else noticed that the adb aliases the command logcat to "lolcat" ? Oct 28 13:20:12 back to work :( Oct 28 13:26:01 has anyone noticed that AOL IM frequently disconnects but doesn't tell you that it disconnected? Oct 28 13:26:50 that's aol... the built in aim app uses aol's sms interface, which will disconnect you after a certain period of inactivity Oct 28 13:27:10 Noooo!! Oct 28 13:27:21 andLinux doesn't support x64 .. bahhh Oct 28 13:27:41 any other thoughts? :) Oct 28 13:27:49 VMWare? :P Oct 28 13:27:55 yep Oct 28 13:27:59 that's what I do. Oct 28 13:28:05 i run esxi on a quad core. Oct 28 13:28:11 it's free. Oct 28 13:28:20 oh cool .. Oct 28 13:28:44 yeah I have a 30% overclocked Q6600 Quad Core on x64 XP Oct 28 13:28:47 ieatlint: ah. hopefully someone will come out with a non-sms based client... or hack the builtin client to not do that Oct 28 13:28:56 because it basically defeats the purpose of having an im client on the phone Oct 28 13:29:07 at the very least, you should get a notification that you've been disconnected Oct 28 13:29:13 arn't google using xmpp for the im client? Oct 28 13:29:20 well, you would hack the built in client to send a message every x hours to prevent the timeout Oct 28 13:29:36 i'll file a bug for the no-notification Oct 28 13:29:42 That'll help battery life, for sure. Oct 28 13:30:14 You could build a web service on pidgin IM's libraries then consume it from an android web app Oct 28 13:30:29 or just write a native one :) Oct 28 13:30:29 smr: oooh... pidgin on android would be hot Oct 28 13:30:30 depending on how talky aol's OSCAR is, it won't affect battery life Oct 28 13:30:53 pidgin is gtk, which android will never support Oct 28 13:30:54 oscar is pretty talky -- you get all the signon/signoff notifications and away/idle information, no? Oct 28 13:31:07 yeah, you do Oct 28 13:31:08 booo Oct 28 13:31:13 pidgin is but not the network code Oct 28 13:31:15 but i meant more keepalive type stuff Oct 28 13:31:26 what about trillian? Oct 28 13:31:26 i would give up battery life to have a proper aim client Oct 28 13:31:30 the network code is ui agnostic Oct 28 13:31:42 you could just write a java aim api if there isn't one already Oct 28 13:31:50 then tie a UI to it Oct 28 13:31:50 besides, if the network code were running on a server somewhere it wouldn't matter. Oct 28 13:31:57 libpurple is the code you mean, and it's written in c with various libraries that are not presently on android... it would be an impressive job to get it working methinks Oct 28 13:32:12 expect aol to be writing a client methinks Oct 28 13:32:18 michael: you are right, but I think using a web service would be better on the battery life. Oct 28 13:32:50 ieatlint: that would be nice. Oct 28 13:32:59 i need to file a bunch of IMAP bugs Oct 28 13:33:05 yeah, libpurple ;). But I don't know that you can install native libraries on android without some hackery. Can you do it through an apk? Oct 28 13:33:21 smr, battery life? not if you wrote it correctly :) Oct 28 13:33:42 apk is dalvik jvm code only... so you can do android libs, but not c Oct 28 13:33:43 how often does that happen? Oct 28 13:33:47 thoraxe: IMAP is being worked on Oct 28 13:33:58 thoraxe: so good idea :) Oct 28 13:34:06 it is possible to cross compile native code... i've done some hello world apps in c running on it Oct 28 13:34:34 but the lack of root is a huge restriction... i'm vainly snooping around now trying to learn more... already picked up a few interesting tidbits Oct 28 13:34:35 michaelnovakjr: yeah, it does some WEIRD things. Oct 28 13:34:59 thoraxe: i've heard, its going to improve Oct 28 13:35:10 like... never ever ever ever figuring out you deleted a folder on the server :P Oct 28 13:35:15 but yes, off to file bugs I go Oct 28 13:35:28 :) Oct 28 13:35:30 Sure, but I think the intent is for any application to have native code that isn't already there in Android distribution Oct 28 13:35:59 I mean "I don't think the intent was" Oct 28 13:36:18 smr you dont need native code for an im app Oct 28 13:36:30 heh there are like 3 flashlight apps up on marketplace already Oct 28 13:36:33 I know. ieatlint was talking about native code Oct 28 13:37:21 yeah, basically... there are a handful of potential uses for native code Oct 28 13:37:26 none of which involve the gui Oct 28 13:37:45 but if you wanted to run something as a daemon... native is better Oct 28 13:37:46 Does having an idle cellular TCP connection drain battery life? Oct 28 13:37:56 no Oct 28 13:38:19 there are no keepalive messages, and it only uses battery when transmitting/recieving Oct 28 13:38:35 true, but for maximum compatibility, I wouldn't count on being able to install a daemon or any other native code Oct 28 13:39:00 i'm not talking compatibility :) Oct 28 13:39:19 K. Guess I don't know what we're talking about anymore! Oct 28 13:39:54 half it's the classic wanting to do what i'm not supposed to, and the other half is the potential to add functionality to the phone Oct 28 13:40:26 I gotcha. Well, I'd love to write some python myself. I hope someone releases a python->dalvik compiler Oct 28 13:40:31 for instance, i could right now compile a tiny proxy and run it on the device, combine it with the adb and its port forwarding, and have a half-assed tethering setup Oct 28 13:40:55 I wrote a socks 5 proxy for Windows Mobile and .NET 2.0 Oct 28 13:41:18 i just realized ive never installed vmware before :P Oct 28 13:41:22 Well, hacked together, mostly. I didn't write the SOCKS5 code from scratch. I just ported it to the compact framework Oct 28 13:42:04 that describes most applications... stringing together existing pieces of code into something new Oct 28 13:42:40 You should see some of the crap I've delivered during my years as a developer :D Oct 28 13:43:57 there's something annoying about not even having the cp command on the shell and needing to use cat :P Oct 28 13:44:03 sooo anybody want to guide me through installing ESXi Oct 28 13:44:15 it's pretty simple Oct 28 13:44:24 just make sure you have a supported network card Oct 28 13:44:28 just want to make sure i dont miss anything Oct 28 13:44:33 i ended up buying a gigabit server grade one. Oct 28 13:44:49 i have two integrated NICs Oct 28 13:44:52 both gigabit Oct 28 13:45:03 EVGA 780i mobo Oct 28 13:45:15 same here with ASUS.. but not supported.. lemme try and find a link. Oct 28 13:45:21 They give gigabit nics away as party favors these days. Oct 28 13:45:23 bah Oct 28 13:46:12 he's right Oct 28 13:46:25 I can get a gigabit realtek for <$15 anytime I want Oct 28 13:46:33 i think i need to get the VMware concept more concrete in my brain first Oct 28 13:46:33 often times under $10 Oct 28 13:46:40 looks like I have a misunderstanding of how it works Oct 28 13:47:21 DJTachyon: how so? You install it, boot the virtual machine, and then install your OS. Oct 28 13:47:24 im an DSP Software/Firmware engineer .. I don't usually get so high level :) Oct 28 13:47:33 interesting Oct 28 13:47:55 DJTachyon: Think whole-machine-ICE Oct 28 13:48:05 http://www.vm-help.com/esx/esx3.5/Whiteboxes_SATA_Controllers_for_ESX_3.5_3i.htm Oct 28 13:48:15 right .. hmm .. well the install is a linux binary on an iso Oct 28 13:48:20 how do you install that from within windows? Oct 28 13:48:40 Point the virtual machine's virtual CD/DVD at the iso image. Oct 28 13:48:50 It'll boot right into it. Oct 28 13:48:57 on windows you install vmware infrastructure client Oct 28 13:49:00 -_- .. Oct 28 13:49:03 ahhhh Oct 28 13:49:07 that was the missing piece Oct 28 13:49:08 hehe Oct 28 13:49:35 i knew some sort of client was needed or something Oct 28 13:50:03 you just point your browser to the IP of the ESXi box and it'll download the infrastructure install. Oct 28 13:50:12 there is a link on the homepage. Oct 28 13:50:17 interesting Oct 28 13:50:20 http://ultimatewhitebox.com/ might be useful too Oct 28 13:50:35 well either way I would prefer to have something running native in windows Oct 28 13:50:47 the whole point was to not have to put another box together Oct 28 13:50:53 i compiled the android source (use make -j 5) for parallel jobs with the quad core shared to ubuntu 8.04 in under an hour. Oct 28 13:51:00 cool Oct 28 13:51:16 my spare machine is running media portal on xp in my living room :P Oct 28 13:51:27 i didn't time it, but it was quicker than what people suggested my expectations be. Oct 28 13:52:01 maybe i should just dual boot this machine Oct 28 13:52:08 i have a spare partition set aside for it Oct 28 13:52:21 hurmm Oct 28 13:52:30 wouldn't hurt... Oct 28 13:52:45 just need to move my swap file back over Oct 28 13:53:07 good luck, i'm crashing ;) later. Oct 28 13:53:31 gnight, thanks for your help Oct 28 13:53:36 no probs. Oct 28 13:59:20 hey I am trying to mount an image in the emulator and when I try and push a file to the sdcard image it says its read only Oct 28 13:59:25 jasta: k-9 is yours? Oct 28 14:00:17 can someone help me with this issue Oct 28 14:00:18 will vmware workstation run without a slave PC? Oct 28 14:00:52 mlester, just use an app like winiso to copy files into the image Oct 28 14:00:56 :P Oct 28 14:01:15 or does your application need to write to it? Oct 28 14:01:48 nah it doesn't but I just want to know why it mounts the image as readonly Oct 28 14:02:11 even if I use the shell and try and mkdir in there its still read only Oct 28 14:03:18 do you have multiple emulators running? Oct 28 14:03:41 not that I am aware of Oct 28 14:03:51 (only the first emulator has r/w access to the disk images, subsequent instances use them r/o) Oct 28 14:04:17 ok Oct 28 14:08:07 mlester: trying a reboot might be a good idea Oct 28 14:08:14 yeah that got it Oct 28 14:08:26 :) Oct 28 14:08:31 I think daemon tools had write priviledges Oct 28 14:08:39 and I thought I killed it but I didnt Oct 28 14:08:49 * DJTachyon wants his replacement G1 already Oct 28 14:08:58 u broke it already Oct 28 14:09:11 nah the accelerometer/compass package is defective Oct 28 14:09:16 thanks btw Oct 28 14:09:19 np Oct 28 14:09:26 ah how can u tell Oct 28 14:09:37 yeah, how do you know it's bad? Oct 28 14:09:53 well the AMAZEd and PACMAN and Street View Compass mode all do not work Oct 28 14:09:58 * Disconnect has serious doubts about his wifi antenna Oct 28 14:10:09 amazed just sits there and crashed Oct 28 14:10:15 pacman darts to the left and stays there Oct 28 14:10:27 and compass mode in maps street view just looks at the ground Oct 28 14:10:32 well, i just found out how to get into the bootloader... but can't interface with it Oct 28 14:11:08 there is a fairly long thread on the t-mobile forums concerning it Oct 28 14:11:22 him I might need to check that my street view works wierd Oct 28 14:11:37 try pacman or amazed Oct 28 14:11:48 yeah downloading right now Oct 28 14:12:24 or the video player Oct 28 14:12:38 that is supposed to turn sideways like the iphone when you rotate it Oct 28 14:13:45 luckily with all the syncing with google, swapping sim cards or master resetting doesnt hurt too much Oct 28 14:14:29 just personalization settings, ringtones, backgrounds, desktop, etc Oct 28 14:14:34 yeah the google thing is really helpful Oct 28 14:15:03 wow .. @nat/google/x-acb2187c053539f6 Oct 28 14:15:10 fancy Oct 28 14:16:22 DJTachyon: downloads, ringtones, app data, sent/received sms... there's a very long list of "skipped" and a very short list of "saved" (email, contacts, calendar) Oct 28 14:16:47 i dont care about most of that stuff .. and because all the apps can be quickly downloaded again Oct 28 14:17:04 i am curious how google has addressed the "bought apps" if you reset Oct 28 14:17:37 lol you can't even move imap mail between folders? Oct 28 14:17:42 your memory card doesnt disappear .. so its all there, just needs to be setup Oct 28 14:17:45 thoraxe: erm, you can't even delete imap mail Oct 28 14:17:50 yeah Oct 28 14:17:55 well, you can move it to the "local trash" Oct 28 14:17:56 haha Oct 28 14:17:57 DJTachyon: none of the data is on the memory card Oct 28 14:18:18 i like that it doesn't sort accounts by any particular order either Oct 28 14:18:21 just the order added Oct 28 14:18:21 thoraxe: it doesn't push read/deleted state to teh server in any sort of reliable way (some read/unread gets pushed, no deletes) Oct 28 14:18:32 Disconnect: is there an active bug for state? Oct 28 14:18:53 1029 is for delete Oct 28 14:19:00 no, it got closed "oh we fixed this in engineering already" .. lot of good it does for the rest of us Oct 28 14:19:00 and there's a spurious comment about state in general Oct 28 14:19:25 Disconnect: which bug are you referring to? Oct 28 14:20:51 actually i was thinking of 1050 (doesn't poll) but according to romainguy its all one bug anyway Oct 28 14:21:21 nothing on reflashing G1's yet? Oct 28 14:22:09 ahh, 1050 is different... that's not a super concern for me Oct 28 14:22:19 but i don't think romain understands the issue Oct 28 14:22:26 i am surprised how sparsly commented the android cpp is Oct 28 14:23:19 brb reboot Oct 28 14:23:31 (trying out an eval of VMware Workstation) Oct 28 14:23:41 has anyone notice that sometimes the market on the g1 has trouble downloading apps even when your on wifi Oct 28 14:23:50 not here mlester Oct 28 14:23:53 always fast Oct 28 14:24:00 even on EDGE Oct 28 14:24:06 download 10apps at once :) Oct 28 14:24:14 yeah its fast when it works but sometimes it just cant get started Oct 28 14:24:18 dang thats nice Oct 28 14:24:29 it just queues them all up and goes Oct 28 14:24:32 i never have a problem Oct 28 14:24:48 sometimes it is fast but like now Oct 28 14:25:05 internet is fast but the apps I am trying to download just wont start downloading Oct 28 14:25:09 hmm dunno .. until they build the cell tower in the back parking lot here, I have no reception Oct 28 14:25:15 stays in the starting app phase Oct 28 14:25:19 so i can't compare Oct 28 14:25:31 anyway i gotta reboot this machine .. brb Oct 28 14:26:36 Anyone have T-Mobile 3G? Oct 28 14:27:59 smr: i do Oct 28 14:28:08 How is it? Oct 28 14:28:16 its pretty fash Oct 28 14:28:19 er fast Oct 28 14:28:22 get just under 900kbps Oct 28 14:29:25 Disconnect: if you rename an imap folder on the server and refresh the mail account, you have both the old folder name AND the new folder name. Oct 28 14:29:31 ooh neat Oct 28 14:30:06 my office is on the border of edge/3g Oct 28 14:30:16 so i often get edge depending on my phone's orientation Oct 28 14:30:16 i can't get it to stay on wifi if my life depended on it tho :( Oct 28 14:30:16 Disconnect: http://pastie.org/302248 <-- do you think this bug text is adequate to file? Oct 28 14:30:32 though most anywhere else I get 3g Oct 28 14:31:30 thoraxe: looks good. Oct 28 14:31:43 * Disconnect has 3-4 more bugs to file this morning. once i get firefox to stop crapping itself. Oct 28 14:38:44 Anyone have the Android Market APK? Oct 28 14:39:51 smr you remove it? hehe Oct 28 14:40:18 No :) I'm running android on a different phone and the distribution doesn't include the market Oct 28 14:40:28 is it possible to make a c/cpp backend app on android ? is there doc on the toolchain needed , libs avail etc? Oct 28 14:40:35 smr: are you running android from source? or from the SDK? Oct 28 14:41:36 It's based on the SDK Oct 28 14:42:03 Though the APKs from the source are included *i think* Oct 28 14:42:35 smr: it's based on the SDK? Oct 28 14:42:43 Yes Oct 28 14:43:11 Hmm, calling stopSelf() in a Service still leaves the process alive, is that normal? Oct 28 14:43:30 smr what do you mean by that? Oct 28 14:44:04 smr, what device? Oct 28 14:44:14 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1097 <-- fun. Oct 28 14:45:47 I have the HTC Vogue, aka Verizon xv6900 Oct 28 14:46:02 thoraxe: I agree with the poster though...would be nice to have an option for a notification icon for IM status Oct 28 14:46:37 it's sometimes surprisingly hard to know when you've been disconnected - sometimes the socket looks all right but in reality it's dead. Oct 28 14:47:37 zhobbs: i'm the poster :P Oct 28 14:47:52 guh, in the videos I've made so far for my G1, I seem to either get working video or audio Oct 28 14:47:54 jbq: i consider "disconnected" when the android im client shows that you are disconnected Oct 28 14:47:55 but not both Oct 28 14:47:58 :( Oct 28 14:48:06 so, if you reach that state and you didn't initiate the disconnect, you should get a notification Oct 28 14:48:11 we can't help if the aol side of the house dies Oct 28 14:48:27 but once the android side of hte house decides that the party is over, it should turn out the lights Oct 28 14:48:39 instead it just passes out on the couch and you wake up with the dog licking your face Oct 28 14:48:42 :) Oct 28 14:48:51 jbq: also, istr aim allows for keepalive/are-you-there pings Oct 28 14:48:52 I quit T-Mobile because I got sick of waiting for 3g. So I went to Verizon and got the xv6900 because I knew it could run Android. Then T-Mobile announced they'd be the first with android and are installing 3g. I was sad :(... Oct 28 14:48:53 ...assuming that the android side of the house knows that the party is over... Oct 28 14:49:08 pings = battery suckers. Oct 28 14:49:23 jbq: well, if i leave AIM on all day, it frequently disconnects. so, at some point, it is deciding the party is over. it just never tells me Oct 28 14:49:59 or, to rephrase -- the android aim client is at some point deciding the connection is gone. it doesn't provide any notification of the fact that it made this decision -- it simply updates the client to show it's no longer connected Oct 28 14:50:07 nm Oct 28 14:50:10 now I've got it working! Oct 28 14:50:12 yay! Oct 28 14:50:15 ah, I see. Oct 28 14:50:25 so until you go into the IM client, you have no idea that it "disconnected" Oct 28 14:50:36 you basically have to manually run to the IM client every once in a while to see if you're still there Oct 28 14:50:36 gotcha. Oct 28 14:50:52 i'll append that statement to the bug Oct 28 14:51:31 (sorry about the confusion) Oct 28 14:51:54 christ. no way to mute an ongoing notification. Oct 28 14:53:55 Android market doesn't seem to be in the git repository. Is it not open source? Oct 28 14:54:06 (eg email comes in, if you have a 45 second ringtone you are getting 45 seconds of sound, period) Oct 28 14:54:19 smr: nope. market is closed, gmail is closed, maps (iirc) is closed.. Oct 28 14:54:34 bollocks Oct 28 14:54:37 smr: correct. It's not part of the platform. Oct 28 14:54:43 (and before certain people freak out at me, i don't think thats a problem. i think its a problem that those apps get to use special apis in a so-called "open" platform..) Oct 28 14:54:50 I guess I'll not find the market APK then :( Oct 28 14:55:18 Disconnect: I assume that the APIs will eventually be documented and shared, after Google is comfortable with them. Oct 28 14:55:41 ...or the apps will be modified to only use public API (which is what I'm doing right now). Oct 28 14:55:41 ttuttle: given that they've pretty much said no to much of it (eg the marketplace api that allows non-interactive installation/removal of apps) I doubt it.. Oct 28 14:55:45 smr: What do you want to do with Market? Oct 28 14:55:48 thats a much better option :) Oct 28 14:56:02 I would assume they aren't being shared because of the cellular providers. Market payments will be charges on your phone bill Oct 28 14:56:18 Disconnect: ...they can share them for the benefit of people porting Android, and simply lock them on the G1 using the security system. Oct 28 14:56:34 smr: someone can pull the apk off a G1 Oct 28 14:56:38 not sure if it works Oct 28 14:56:42 zhobbs: How? Oct 28 14:56:54 I wonder if it won't work because it's probably tied to T-Mobile somehow Oct 28 14:57:02 smr: thats a server-side function though. Oct 28 14:57:08 ttuttle: adb pull /system/app/Vending.apk Oct 28 14:57:32 Right. But what if the server side function is necessary for the market client to function. Oct 28 14:57:39 * ttuttle has a copy now. Oct 28 14:57:40 Cool. Oct 28 14:57:48 i don't think its a problem that - eg - gmail app is closed source and uses funky google-only server apis. (it'd be nice if not but whatever..) its simply the restricted platform apis that I object to. Oct 28 14:57:59 * smr longs for Vending.apk Oct 28 14:58:08 smr: I'd seen somewhere on tmobile site that market billing would be through google checkout Oct 28 14:58:19 I read today it would be on your phone bill Oct 28 14:58:30 patrick.chasco@gmail.com Oct 28 14:58:31 weird Oct 28 14:58:33 Disconnect: actually, we've been thinking of ways to allow a third-party marketplace to install its apps with the same APIs as teh built-in marketplace. Oct 28 14:58:40 morrildl: morning Oct 28 14:58:45 jbq: cool :) Oct 28 14:58:56 lovely Oct 28 14:58:58 * ttuttle tries installing Market on emulator. Oct 28 14:59:02 i can now watch my torchwood in the video player Oct 28 14:59:04 good idea Oct 28 14:59:14 (I also think its balls that marketplace apps aren't allowed in the marketplace, but again, that doesn't impact "open platform" so much so..) Oct 28 14:59:26 jpq so you're talking about a "community marketplace" app that would allow non-official stuff to be downloaded/installed? Oct 28 14:59:29 ttuttle: it would install, but I couldn't authenicate on the emulator Oct 28 14:59:31 I am really wanting to abandon this verizon contract so I can go back to T-Mobile Oct 28 14:59:34 zhobbs: hmm Oct 28 14:59:49 All they've got is GPRS in my location though :( Oct 28 14:59:52 smr: keep calling verizon until they let you out of your contract for free. how long have you been a customer? Oct 28 15:00:24 Well, the problem is that I've moved to my girlfriend's contract. She gets really annoyed by my gadget-mongering Oct 28 15:00:31 last time i brought it up she got pissed Oct 28 15:00:33 Hmm, the market seems to just exit when I run it. Oct 28 15:00:36 smr: lol Oct 28 15:00:44 Yeah, just keep calling and asking for managers and then play "If You Love Someone Set Them Free" over the speaker Oct 28 15:00:53 BHSPitWeb: ... Oct 28 15:00:54 I've only been on Verizon for about four months Oct 28 15:00:59 ttuttle: yeah, it asked for credentials and then exits...now when I run it it just exits Oct 28 15:01:04 ttuttle: by The Police. Oct 28 15:01:07 oh Oct 28 15:01:09 you're screwed Oct 28 15:01:15 BHSPitWeb: heh Oct 28 15:01:23 i was a tmobile customer since 1998 when they were voicestream. they let me out of one of my 2 lines Oct 28 15:01:32 "we can not charge you, but we can't waive the fee" Oct 28 15:01:41 it looks like the market apk is probably tied to the provider Oct 28 15:01:46 Does Android have any inherent ability to run old J2ME apps? Oct 28 15:01:47 smr: /me bets it's just crashing. Oct 28 15:01:51 BHSPitWeb: No, thank god. Oct 28 15:01:55 thoraxe: well, it's been a thought experiment more than anything else at this point, i.e. a bunch of engineers brainstorming on what it would take to make such an API available to third-party apps, without weakening the security model. There's a huge gap between a 10-minute brainstorm in a hallway and a tested, documented and supported API! Oct 28 15:02:07 oh sure Oct 28 15:02:09 BHSPitWeb: It appears that GLU (the maker of Bonsai Blast and Brain Genius Deluxe) has a J2ME-to-Android thing set up. Oct 28 15:02:15 BHSPitWeb: Unfortunately, it makes all their apps 7 MB. Oct 28 15:02:18 i mean, code.google kindof already is the "marketplace" Oct 28 15:02:34 you just have to manually go there and download apks Oct 28 15:02:35 haha Oct 28 15:02:41 anyone know if there is an ipsec vpn client yet? Oct 28 15:02:43 so Oct 28 15:02:50 is it possible to even run native code on the phones? Oct 28 15:02:54 Yeah, the problem with Market appears to be "com.android.vending.TosChecker$TosDialogAccessor$TosDialog.onStart(): Could not read ToS URL from GServices." Oct 28 15:02:56 your own phone, for instance Oct 28 15:03:00 does Bonsai Blast use OpenGL? Oct 28 15:03:02 davidw: with some hackery Oct 28 15:03:05 zhobbs: Dunno. Oct 28 15:03:16 thoraxe: vpn requires root. root isn't safe for the people, so ... no. Oct 28 15:03:16 I can run native code on my phone Oct 28 15:03:30 smr: How? Oct 28 15:03:36 Me too, and I'm on WinMo :( Oct 28 15:03:43 smr, yeah? Oct 28 15:03:48 I'm not using a G1 Oct 28 15:03:52 my phone is unlocked Oct 28 15:03:55 In a few ways, it's more open than Android phones Oct 28 15:03:58 Also, has anyone looked at the source code for the Term app? There's an undocumented class called android.os.Exec -- you can run native code from Java! Oct 28 15:04:02 I need to learn how to make games....just wondering if OpenGL is the route to take.... Oct 28 15:04:13 zhobbs: Depends what you're doing, I guess. Oct 28 15:04:16 ttuttle: yeah, I saw that Oct 28 15:04:38 I've got a shell on mine too Oct 28 15:04:46 I can telnet to it now :) Oct 28 15:04:53 zhobbs: you need to msg me about games ;) Oct 28 15:05:16 zhobbs: yes, it is Oct 28 15:05:21 zhobbs: or go to college :P Oct 28 15:05:43 I'm writting a game, or at least trying. I'm new to Java and Android development Oct 28 15:05:59 what game Oct 28 15:06:02 It's definitely a learning experience. I can't even get a random access file.... Oct 28 15:06:17 Java's easy, it's just C++ made horrible Oct 28 15:06:33 You mean Java is C++ made easy, right? Oct 28 15:06:33 It's not the language as much as the framework that I'm learning Oct 28 15:06:47 Java is almost exactly C# Oct 28 15:07:10 Yeah, frameworks are usually the hard part to "get into" on a new platform Oct 28 15:07:23 the language differences are cosmetic for most purposes. Oct 28 15:07:26 C++ is by far one of the worst languages :) Oct 28 15:07:29 Although I've been trying to get into iPhone development, and the language is getting me too :/ Oct 28 15:07:37 phillijw: agreed Oct 28 15:07:52 I wish there were a python compiler for android Oct 28 15:08:12 in theory it shouldn't be hard to port python Oct 28 15:08:25 you'd have to package it up with your app though, I guess Oct 28 15:08:32 jpython Oct 28 15:08:38 jython Oct 28 15:09:06 I'd rather it compile directly to dalvik bytecode Oct 28 15:09:24 Is jython an interpreter? Oct 28 15:09:56 no. it compiles it to java bytecode Oct 28 15:09:58 http://www.jython.org/Project/ Oct 28 15:09:59 is T-Mobile still pushing 1.1 updates Oct 28 15:10:00 +? Oct 28 15:10:04 1.1?! Oct 28 15:10:04 I'm still on 1.0 RC19 Oct 28 15:10:12 It would be really difficult to port jython. You'd have to write a new compiler backend Oct 28 15:10:17 Death_Syn: Are you sure you're not on TC4-RC19? Oct 28 15:10:25 let me read it, just a sec Oct 28 15:10:26 by that I mean you'd have to write the code generator Oct 28 15:10:41 the forums last week said they were pushing firmware updates starting on release day Oct 28 15:10:59 Or just a converter .class -> .dex Oct 28 15:11:07 ttuttle: yeah, I'm on TC4-RC19 Oct 28 15:11:09 Death_Syn: I'm not sure if it was starting on release day, but I believe TC4-RC28 has been pushed, and Engadget suggests RC29 is being pushed to fix the Browser security hole. Oct 28 15:11:14 Death_Syn: Ok. Oct 28 15:11:25 * ttuttle thinks they should put a "BETA" in the Android logo ;-) Oct 28 15:11:32 (and just leave it there) Oct 28 15:11:32 i got the firmware revision number and the android number mixed up, I guess Oct 28 15:13:09 smr, you can run Hecl:-) Oct 28 15:13:15 anyone at tmob want to push me up the stack, see if you \\ Oct 28 15:13:21 er, send me the update i mean :) Oct 28 15:13:29 is there a fast way to render pixels? (~30'000) Oct 28 15:14:54 Disconnect: I don't think T-Mobile can do that. Oct 28 15:15:43 -something- out there determines who gets the OTA updates. and istr that (a very very long time ago) they could force an update for certain 'critical' problems if you escalated with customer service. but i'm too lazy to spend an hour on 611 doing that :) Oct 28 15:24:04 anyone work with non standard intent filters? Oct 28 15:24:54 michaelnovakjr: sure Oct 28 15:25:22 zhobbs: if i want to handle the PICK intent but return a string value is that possible? Oct 28 15:25:37 i'm sure i am missing something simple here Oct 28 15:28:06 what do you mean by "return" ? Oct 28 15:28:18 pass back to the calling intent Oct 28 15:28:26 Use setResult() for that Oct 28 15:28:45 sub-activities return results as Intents, and you can stick (almost) whatever you want in there. Oct 28 15:29:16 i'm calling setResult with an intent with extras as the second parameter, should that work? Oct 28 15:29:23 smr, so what kind of hacking is necessary to compile and run native code on the phones ? I don't want to distribute anything, just know if it's possible for someone wanting to play around Oct 28 15:29:24 Yup Oct 28 15:29:35 Override onActivityResult() in the calling activity Oct 28 15:29:56 davidw: it's possible but of course, unsupported Oct 28 15:30:14 obviously it's unsupported Oct 28 15:31:04 hey yall Oct 28 15:31:08 I don't know how to do it on the G1 Oct 28 15:31:10 i run the chan on efnet Oct 28 15:31:16 would you want to relay? Oct 28 15:31:17 if there is a database file on a sdcard what string would you use to open it in an applicaation for example hello.db would I use SQLiteDatabase.openDatabase("sdcard/hello.db",null,SQLiteDatabase.OPEN_READONLY) Oct 28 15:31:20 we have about 65 users Oct 28 15:31:25 no Oct 28 15:31:28 sounds annoying Oct 28 15:31:33 and here we have all the guys from google Oct 28 15:31:39 we win;-P Oct 28 15:31:45 hehe, tell them to come here :) Oct 28 15:31:46 lol its not about win or lose Oct 28 15:31:50 But for my phone I build an app natively, then copy it to my device's filesystem, then run it Oct 28 15:31:50 I can't believe it.. Clickin2DaBeat app thats on apps-for-android... I made the same app (only difference is that there is a youtube vid.. I have just an mp3) last week and was like "oh great.. that's a neat idea that I had.. I can surely make a few bucks with it and pay this months rent".. and now I see that there.. is it just me that gets always punched in the face? :P Oct 28 15:31:51 its about collaboration Oct 28 15:32:01 and efnet has a nice hacking base Oct 28 15:32:07 really there isn't anything special to do. I have access to the filesystem Oct 28 15:32:13 which could be good for the platform Oct 28 15:32:24 smr, well is it some development phone that lets you do more than the g1? Oct 28 15:32:28 is there any word of an ssh server? Oct 28 15:33:02 and how do i get the micro sd card to show up in ubuntu Oct 28 15:33:22 d0nets, plug it in to the slot in your computer?:-) works for me Oct 28 15:33:25 d0nets: just enable USB mass storage on the phone Oct 28 15:33:34 Hi. Anyone know of any file browsers for the g1? the two I found on anddev don't seem to work Oct 28 15:33:49 salman: saw one in the Market this morning Oct 28 15:33:49 david and zhobbs i did that Oct 28 15:33:55 salman check the market Oct 28 15:34:01 salman: not sure but it' seems to be of limited use Oct 28 15:34:08 ah. is there one out now? I'll check Oct 28 15:34:19 I got a broken app which I have to try and remove Oct 28 15:34:39 Did you try adb uninstall? Oct 28 15:34:49 was trying to install connectbot and something went screwy, now I can't see it under app manager or access it on the phone Oct 28 15:35:04 its prolly not instaled salman Oct 28 15:35:04 davidw: no I have an HTC Vogue. It normally runs windows mobile, but utilizing an application called "Haret" I can run any OS on it I want, provided it will operate on the device Oct 28 15:35:09 just hold press and drag it to trashcan Oct 28 15:35:12 no, I don't have the sdk on this laptop Oct 28 15:35:13 then try to reinstall Oct 28 15:35:22 but install it from http://code.google.com/p/connectbot Oct 28 15:35:27 as the market version is up to date Oct 28 15:35:31 isnt* Oct 28 15:35:56 d0nets: already tried. when I tried to install connectbot now, it says 'incompatible update' which makes me think the previous version wasn't removed properly Oct 28 15:36:10 davidw: basically haret is a bootloader that runs in windows mobile. It loads up the kernel in memory then disables memory protection then starts executing Oct 28 15:36:14 is there a google bot in here? Oct 28 15:36:17 It doesn't appear in the package list? Oct 28 15:36:22 !google android connectbot incompatible update Oct 28 15:36:25 no, cbeust_ Oct 28 15:36:29 no google bot Oct 28 15:36:38 weird Oct 28 15:36:40 Only real Google people Oct 28 15:36:45 we really need to relay my chan with this one Oct 28 15:37:07 Who needs bots when you have droids? Oct 28 15:37:13 guys in #connectbot seem to think the old ver may still be installed so I just want to check Oct 28 15:37:13 i don't care for googlebots Oct 28 15:37:15 jbq++ Oct 28 15:37:34 wastrel its nice once you realize how it works Oct 28 15:37:48 it saves lots of clicks and changing windows to google something for someone Oct 28 15:38:03 the googlebot was called in for extra shifts indexing. a few of the other bots called in sick ;) Oct 28 15:38:06 d0nets: but you're spamming the channel Oct 28 15:38:14 d0nets: you the dude working on ircell? Oct 28 15:38:23 death_syn no Oct 28 15:38:26 but i have an irc solution Oct 28 15:38:28 k Oct 28 15:38:29 bitchx in connectbot Oct 28 15:38:31 (10:38:06 AM) St0ned: !google android connectbot incompatible update Oct 28 15:38:31 (10:38:08 AM) den0tS: 5 Results | Linux and Android for Vogue - Page 78 @ http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2556086 Oct 28 15:38:37 its not alot of spam Oct 28 15:38:39 yeah, i'm using connectbot+irssi Oct 28 15:39:03 ive been helping them with reporting issues Oct 28 15:39:25 i reported the issue with the error when you hit back , it happened when you had "keep screen lit" disabled Oct 28 15:39:43 im really digging the infrastructure google has lain for us Oct 28 15:40:01 d0nets: glad to hear that Oct 28 15:44:00 d0nets: googlebot is for facebook users. "ooh look everyone look at me i'm searching the INTERNETS!! quick, pay attention!" Oct 28 15:44:14 no disconnect Oct 28 15:44:17 its nice when people have an issue Oct 28 15:44:20 and they should google Oct 28 15:44:30 instead of saying "use google and search for blah blah" Oct 28 15:44:34 you type !google blah blah Oct 28 15:44:44 Facebook news feed: "ttuttle searched for: "android is awesome"" :-P Oct 28 15:44:49 d0nets: I'd rather do that in a browser personally Oct 28 15:45:05 cbeust_: thanks for the intent help.... i got it working now Oct 28 15:45:12 i'm a little rusty on intents Oct 28 15:45:13 michaelnovakjr: cool Oct 28 15:46:24 "ttuttle searched for: "bikini shots plz"" Oct 28 15:46:53 hi! does somebody knows how to compile the debug target in the android source code? Oct 28 15:49:39 i got my 4gb microsd Oct 28 15:49:47 anyone know how to get a randomaccessfile using either openRawResource or getAsset? Oct 28 15:50:12 any word on running apps on the micro sd card Oct 28 15:50:25 d0nets: not possible at the moment Oct 28 15:51:17 heh didn't notice there's already music on the sd card Oct 28 15:51:48 Is there any way to monitor what goes on with the phone's wifi connection? Oct 28 15:51:49 yea wastrel, when you plug in the headphones the first time it starts playing automatically Oct 28 15:52:01 now if we could only install apps directly onto the sd card :) Oct 28 15:52:02 i almost fell out of my chair because the volume was all the way up and it came outta nowhere Oct 28 15:52:14 salman, you can't? Oct 28 15:52:16 who is using ubuntu? Oct 28 15:52:26 I don't see any way to, davidw Oct 28 15:52:31 i cant get my micro sd card to show up in ubuntu Oct 28 15:52:31 BHSPitWeb, monitor in what way? Oct 28 15:52:32 everything goes directly to phone Oct 28 15:52:36 and yes i set the setting Oct 28 15:52:41 d0nets: as root, fdisk -l Oct 28 15:52:51 should show a scsi type disk Oct 28 15:52:54 one sec lemme plug it in Oct 28 15:52:54 sda, sdb, etc Oct 28 15:53:02 make sure usb storage is enabled on the phone Oct 28 15:53:03 d0nets: I use ubunut Oct 28 15:53:11 and ubuntu Oct 28 15:53:24 then just mount /dev/sdX /some/path and you're set Oct 28 15:53:43 can the phone charge via usb? Oct 28 15:53:46 d0nets: the music player only starts playing "automatically" when you long-press the button on the headset. Oct 28 15:53:49 davidw: yes Oct 28 15:53:49 that irritates me about the nokia I just got Oct 28 15:53:57 yes usb charging works, but you need a powered usb port. Oct 28 15:54:10 davidw: yes, although it's slower than on a power outlet Oct 28 15:54:28 wastrel what do you mean Oct 28 15:54:31 Cedric2, sure, but on trips it's nice to have one less thing to bring Oct 28 15:54:32 oh marcone maybe that was it Oct 28 15:54:44 davidw: definitely, I use it a lot Oct 28 15:55:00 d0nets: some usb ports don't provide the necessary power to support charging. Oct 28 15:55:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PoweredUSB Oct 28 15:55:25 wastrel i have read things about battery performance Oct 28 15:55:34 that the g1 uses a more powerful charger Oct 28 15:55:44 and using regular usb cables and othe rusb charrgers dont support that Oct 28 15:55:53 and causes bad batt performance Oct 28 15:55:54 the phone charges up really quickly, that's for sure Oct 28 15:56:16 yea it drains real quickly too Oct 28 15:56:48 I disabled most of the syncing Oct 28 15:56:55 just left contact syncing enabled Oct 28 15:57:05 lasts about 2 days now for me if I dont' youtube a lot Oct 28 15:57:10 wastrel: the wikipedia page you refer to doesn't really apply here. You can charge the phone off a standard USB port, it just won't charge as fast as it would when using the charger. Oct 28 15:57:22 3g radios drain the battery fast in any phone Oct 28 15:57:47 Always charge the G1 off the wall wart Oct 28 15:57:51 you can expect any usb port on a computer to provide the phone 500mA, which will charge the phone quickly Oct 28 15:58:04 the wall charger is rated at 1A, but may not be able to always pull that Oct 28 15:58:10 Charging off USB doesn't always necessarily charge the device :) Oct 28 15:58:11 salman can i pm you? Oct 28 15:58:18 sure Oct 28 16:03:30 could someone help me get my sd card to show up in ubuntu? Oct 28 16:03:37 i dont think i see it in fdisk -l Oct 28 16:03:44 i get this in dmesg, is this related? Oct 28 16:03:45 Is your reader detected? Oct 28 16:03:45 d03boy, #ubuntu ? Oct 28 16:03:45 [ 8555.048318] usb 2-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 80 Oct 28 16:03:45 [ 8555.456098] usb 2-5: device not accepting address 80, error -71 Oct 28 16:03:57 tmccrary im not wanting to use the reader Oct 28 16:03:58 d0nets, sounds like it's fucked up. Oct 28 16:04:05 ??? Oct 28 16:04:09 im wanting to plug the g1 in Oct 28 16:04:11 via usb Oct 28 16:04:13 ah Oct 28 16:04:20 mine "just works" w/ ubuntu hardy Oct 28 16:04:26 d0nets: its set to use usb storage right? Oct 28 16:04:30 same here Oct 28 16:04:34 yea Oct 28 16:04:40 im using gutsy Oct 28 16:04:50 i prepared for tomorrows install of 8.10 though Oct 28 16:04:54 morrildl, hey, question from a friend of mine - can you compile, and then run something on your own phone, with the G1? Oct 28 16:05:12 davidw: yes. you can do that will all phones Oct 28 16:05:16 davidw: except the iphone Oct 28 16:05:22 (in general) Oct 28 16:06:36 gutsy i think is still using udev Oct 28 16:06:43 libusb on hardy Oct 28 16:06:48 iirc i dn't follow that stuff Oct 28 16:07:42 d0nets, reinstallation is for windows, not linux Oct 28 16:07:55 sorry for spamming and whining again but.. I'm starting to think that I'm sleepwalking (or.. sleepcoding) and I have copied the code and logic from Clickin2DaBeat. I mean.. the whole logic of the app is exactly the same.. storing beats in an xml.. xml tag names. creating new "beats" file.. loading it.. displaying it.. recording touch events etc. Oct 28 16:08:17 david are you recommending upgrading? Oct 28 16:08:23 How can I reflash my phone Oct 28 16:08:25 and I thought that there are a million ways of designing/coding something like that.. turns out htere is just one :P Oct 28 16:08:45 d0nets, yeah. Oct 28 16:09:05 nah im good Oct 28 16:09:07 hmm Oct 28 16:09:08 One obvious way maybe! Oct 28 16:09:16 there's a format option in settings, Laz Oct 28 16:09:16 even in ubuntu alot of the time upgrades dont go as planned Oct 28 16:09:36 im gonna try a different cable salman Oct 28 16:09:45 I want to retheme android Oct 28 16:09:48 this cable it came with smells like new shoes and laughing gas Oct 28 16:10:00 fucking amazon. "thats not a common problem, you should call us on the phone" and then a 2 page form letter about why i should use their online forms instead of calling... Oct 28 16:10:13 jasta, hey, do you know this? have you tried running some native code on your phone? Oct 28 16:10:32 that worked salman Oct 28 16:10:35 strange Oct 28 16:10:39 its my cable Oct 28 16:10:48 i wsa using a little usb to mini usb retractable Oct 28 16:10:52 neat Oct 28 16:10:55 whats special about the g1's? Oct 28 16:11:04 cause i would like to get retractable ones for it Oct 28 16:11:32 davidw: no, pretty sure it would work very much like the emulator tho Oct 28 16:11:35 don't think there's anything special Oct 28 16:11:41 it's just a standard cable Oct 28 16:11:52 I mixed and matched at work and had no problems Oct 28 16:12:37 hahaha and you can't even reply to their emails. what a joke. Oct 28 16:12:47 jasta: k-9 is you right? Oct 28 16:14:01 Disconnect: no, but im going to contact them today Oct 28 16:14:52 it notifies great but doesn't have a menu or back button or anything. awkward... open a message and you have to wait for android to kill the app before you can get back to the list :( Oct 28 16:15:04 is your version done? :) Oct 28 16:15:57 no, i need to do major surgery to the Email app Oct 28 16:16:03 but it does work Oct 28 16:17:38 jasta you have anything to do with masa? Oct 28 16:18:05 i saw a tutorial for installing a streaming app earlier Oct 28 16:18:11 and there was a step to patch a file Oct 28 16:18:14 and it was .jasta Oct 28 16:18:19 if there is a database file on a sdcard what string would you use to open it in an applicaation for example hello.db would I use SQLiteDatabase.openDatabase("sdcard/hello.db",null,SQLiteDatabase.OPEN_READONLY) Oct 28 16:18:46 I'd open it with 'ed'. Oct 28 16:18:48 /sdcard/hello.db Oct 28 16:19:48 ok thanks Oct 28 16:20:04 anyone know if google gives out g1 for scolarships lol Oct 28 16:20:05 for devs Oct 28 16:20:21 i know a chick that might be able to provide a solution for running apps from the sd card Oct 28 16:20:36 but she doesnt use phones and doesnt have $ to get one out of contract Oct 28 16:20:50 plus i hear you cant even use one without activating it Oct 28 16:20:57 well that sounds like a great elevator pitch to use with google to get a free phone Oct 28 16:21:15 like, I know this chick, like, and she has this friend, see... Oct 28 16:21:16 d0nets: she can stick to the SDK Oct 28 16:21:24 lol davidw sorry Oct 28 16:21:40 hmm I am getting no such table exception Oct 28 16:21:42 I don't think they hand out hardware though Oct 28 16:22:04 cedric do you think she could get apps from sd card accomplished in sdk? Oct 28 16:23:05 d0nets: very few people could do that today, so I doubt it, but she's welcome to try Oct 28 16:23:34 so its impossible? Oct 28 16:23:45 she is pretty smart Oct 28 16:23:48 she created the open wii Oct 28 16:23:49 It's software, so it's not impossible, just very hard right now Oct 28 16:23:50 nothing is impossible, but it would be very difficult, and google wouldn't like it Oct 28 16:23:54 and sigma fw for surfboard modems Oct 28 16:24:01 why wouldn't we like it? Oct 28 16:24:03 Oh I don't think we would care that much Oct 28 16:24:15 I wouldn't count on being able to do it in the SDK. From source, it might be possible, if you modify the mount table and format the sd card with e.g. e2fs, that might work. I didn't try. Oct 28 16:24:16 d0nets: sounds like a perfect project for the sdk then. total control. Oct 28 16:24:23 because you went out of your way to restrict what one can do on such things Oct 28 16:24:24 That won't work on production devices, of course. Oct 28 16:24:31 ieatlint: er, no Oct 28 16:24:33 (well, yah, from emulator i mean) Oct 28 16:24:42 ieatlint: no, we didn't, but there are other forces at work here Oct 28 16:24:49 thats my point Oct 28 16:24:52 i agree, such as the market Oct 28 16:25:02 theres things that rely on hands on time with device Oct 28 16:25:12 d0nets: that app was http://five.googlecode.com, which i wrote Oct 28 16:25:16 * davidw is really hoping to get a definitive answer: can I compile something and run it on a G1? Oct 28 16:25:21 i would still love to have root on the device :( Oct 28 16:25:22 d0nets: and Five uses Masa, i believe its one of the only big projects using it so far Oct 28 16:25:32 is there any timeline on when bluetooth serial support might be added back into android? Oct 28 16:25:33 jasta can i pm you? Oct 28 16:25:37 sure Oct 28 16:25:38 does that app work on the g1 yet? Oct 28 16:25:48 of course, i use it every Tue/Thu at the gym :) Oct 28 16:25:49 davidw, yes, but not gui apps Oct 28 16:25:50 davidw: depends on your level of skill :) but possibly. its been done, its not supported, and its not simple. Oct 28 16:25:59 and yah its not gui Oct 28 16:26:05 I know that guis aren't possible Oct 28 16:26:10 we've been over that before Oct 28 16:26:27 you need a arm toolchain with the gnu eabi library Oct 28 16:26:35 but you can do it with a real live g1? Oct 28 16:26:38 and you need to do something a bit odd for dynamic linking Oct 28 16:26:43 ieatlint, sure, cross compiling is not the problem Oct 28 16:27:01 yeah, you can do it on a g1 Oct 28 16:27:35 sucks up storage iirc - gotta basically save all the bins (and any necessary libs) twice Oct 28 16:28:10 if you statically link, yeah... which is a lot easier than dynamic (and, also, not too many libs are on the device) Oct 28 16:28:31 there's a bin of busybox floating around that's been statically compiled for it Oct 28 16:28:45 adds a bit of functionality, like vi Oct 28 16:29:33 but google was kind enough to explicitly force everything on the sdcard to not be executable, and attempt to restrict all the rw mtd partitions Oct 28 16:29:34 :) Oct 28 16:31:47 * Disconnect does love being told what he can't do with the "open" platform.. Oct 28 16:32:12 open platform, not open devices Oct 28 16:33:12 anyway, /data/local gives the shell user rw on mtd5, where you can upload programs and run them Oct 28 16:33:20 I've got busybox on my phone :D Oct 28 16:37:04 Dumb java question: I have an InputStream and an OutputStream I want to copy. Is the standard idiom just to loop on read/write pairs, or is there a "join" or "pipe" operation I'm missing somewhere? Oct 28 16:37:52 androoid: i have wondered abotu this for ages and it truly appears that there is not. Oct 28 16:38:16 ieatlint: No need for anything wierd with dynamic linking that I've seen yet. You just can't use a uclibc toolchain and expect it to work, you have to build against the native libc instead. Oct 28 16:39:22 my libc isn't compatible then... perhaps an issue of it looking for libc in the wrong place Oct 28 16:39:44 i found info about using the linker on the phone, which worked, so i stopped there Oct 28 16:41:55 "linker on the phone" ? That's the shared object linker, it's a runtime thing, you don't need to use it specifically. You have a link? I'm playing with this stuff myself and rediscovering things I think are already known. Oct 28 16:42:47 http://honeypod.blogspot.com/2007/12/dynamically-linked-hello-world-for.html Oct 28 16:42:51 do all sqllite databases need to have a android_metadata Oct 28 16:43:20 jasta, yea i was thinking about the build process Oct 28 16:43:36 activitycreator should support ant, masa and eclipse projects by default Oct 28 16:44:10 because I am getting a exception becaue it can find one Oct 28 16:44:21 ieatlint: OK, yeah. Those are instructions about how to force a default toolchain to set the runtime linker field in the generated binaries correctly. I figured out the same stuff by watching what the Android prebuilt toolchain did during a build of the system. Oct 28 16:45:25 hmmm Oct 28 16:45:41 i was guessing as much when i was briefly playing with that that it was a location issue Oct 28 16:47:12 is there a program where u can play a song and it will tell u the name of the song? Oct 28 16:47:27 shazam Oct 28 16:48:02 michaelnovakjr: yeah, at least with options for all of them Oct 28 16:48:10 but masa would be a good one. i much prefer the maven way Oct 28 16:48:12 yea Oct 28 16:48:21 ant is yucky, requiring that you bundle all your dependencies Oct 28 16:48:26 which is a strategy that makes me sick :) Oct 28 16:48:33 plus if you distribute code you have all options to build from Oct 28 16:48:48 activitiycreator --all -out . ..... Oct 28 16:56:20 andyross: You might want to look at PipedInputStream/PipedOutputStream Oct 28 16:57:15 any way to extend the length of a byte array in Java? Oct 28 16:57:25 It's not performance critical. Writing a loop on the bytewise read() and write() works fine. My first intuition is that there'd be some tool to chain these together and flush them. But then I realized that this is Java and any such tool would triple the complexity of the code and not be worth it. Oct 28 16:59:13 smr: you must create a new array and copy your old array's data into it Oct 28 16:59:29 I was afraid of that Oct 28 17:00:12 How else would it work? Either you do it manually or the runtime needs to make the copy for you. Arrays are contiguous regions of address space, there's no guarantee that the space you want after the array is available (and in practice it never is, because allocators try to avoid fragmentation) Oct 28 17:00:34 I understand. I was just hoping that there would be something in the framework that would do it for me Oct 28 17:00:45 I feel like I am reinventing too many wheels Oct 28 17:00:47 smr: well there might be some utility in android Oct 28 17:00:59 android has a lot of those types of things Oct 28 17:01:01 so who knows Oct 28 17:01:24 * waldo_ is back (gone 07:23:55) Oct 28 17:01:34 i doubt for primitive types Oct 28 17:01:37 In C we call it realloc(). No doubt in java it's called something like ByteArraySizeModifierAllocationManagerFactory. Oct 28 17:01:41 Yes, though the API is rather new and there isn't a whole lot of doc out there Oct 28 17:01:52 ha Oct 28 17:02:03 you do know what realloc does right? Oct 28 17:02:36 FWIW, the javadocs for the Android APIs seem reasonably good to me. Terse maybe, but complete. (And yes, I know what realloc does -- it makes a copy and returns the new pointer, just like what we were discussion) Oct 28 17:02:53 :) Oct 28 17:02:58 Well, the ByteArraySizeModifierAllocationManagerFactory doesn't actually do any resizing. It just constructs a ByteArraySizeModifierAllocationManager for you based on the SsytemRandomAccessMemoryContext you must pass it Oct 28 17:03:36 andyross: its basically what you are doing, but for primitive types i haven't come across anything like that Oct 28 17:03:46 well there you have the difference between java and C in a nutshell ;) Oct 28 17:04:12 :) Oct 28 17:04:50 so it turns out to be something like byte[] array = ByteArraySizeModifierAllocationManagerFactory.BuildByteArraySizeModifierAllocationManager(getSystemRandomAccessMemoryContext()).ResizeByteArray(oldArray, oldArray.length + 4 * 1024); Oct 28 17:05:06 * andyross pronounces this joke dead, now. Oct 28 17:05:23 * smr is wasting time at work Oct 28 17:05:23 hi, is android already released for production with some smart phone? I'd like to buy a smart phone running android... is it possible today? Oct 28 17:06:20 haha Oct 28 17:06:23 gustavold: in the usa, yes. elsewhere, don't know Oct 28 17:06:25 sorry for the laugh Oct 28 17:07:07 yes tmobile g1 Oct 28 17:07:25 meh I just wrote my own array resizer... lame Oct 28 17:07:34 thoraxe: where can I buy it (in the usa)? Oct 28 17:07:49 tmobile Oct 28 17:08:02 gustavold: you may be able to get one with no contract from t-mobile, but it would be locked Oct 28 17:08:17 hummm Oct 28 17:08:24 (hence calling it the "tmobile g1" .. sprint is unlikely to get away with naming it "tmobile" even if they wanted to. although with the condition of the preinstalled apps it'd be pretty good misdirection..) Oct 28 17:08:33 I just found this for resizing arrays, don't know if its any help.. http://www.source-code.biz/snippets/java/3.htm Oct 28 17:09:24 do you know if it's going to be selled outside usa this year? Oct 28 17:09:28 is reflection availble in dalvik? Oct 28 17:10:01 smr: yes, but do remember that reflection is _slow_ Oct 28 17:10:15 gustavold: probably not any android production outside the USA in 2008. other manufs are supposed to produce phones for 2009 Oct 28 17:10:29 gustavold: the G1 is manuf by HTC. not sure what arrangements tmobile made with htc over exclusivity Oct 28 17:10:29 it's probably better to do it fo a specific type without reflection Oct 28 17:10:40 the code for resizing arrays that Meph gave me uses reflection. Oct 28 17:11:05 Thanks for it. I went ahead and wrote my own though. Oct 28 17:11:39 Is it stupid that I wrote a function to accept an InputStream and read it all into a big byte array? Oct 28 17:12:31 smr: why not use the java.io packages? Oct 28 17:13:10 does it have something to do that? Oct 28 17:13:11 InputStream is in java.io. The answer depends on what you want to do with that data, obviously. Oct 28 17:13:13 I couldn't find anything Oct 28 17:13:16 thoraxe: I'm working in on an open source project and we are planning which platforms are we going to support... it includes buying some devices... I'd like to include android in the supported platforms, but I don't think I can if there isn't android devices for selling... =( Oct 28 17:13:17 did anyone manage to get a street number from getFromLocation() in the Geocoder class? Oct 28 17:13:46 I need to get an asset or raw resource and read it with random access Oct 28 17:13:52 how does one change the email address setup with repo? Oct 28 17:14:22 gustavold: use an emulator in the meantime Oct 28 17:14:34 smr: My understanding is that they are stored uncompressed in the .apk, so seeks should be fast. If you aren't needing to seek for every byte, it's probably faster to avoid the copy. Oct 28 17:14:55 davidw: not sure if you got your answer yet, but yes -- retail devices support adb (though it has to be turned on in the device by the user first.) That lets you debug your own apk's process, although you are prevented from debugging processes owned by other apks Oct 28 17:15:51 morrildl, meaning you could x-compile some code, put it on the phone, and see your 'hello world' pop up? Oct 28 17:15:57 All I can get from the Android framework it seems is an InputStream or file descriptor. I don't want to have to know the actual file name or path of the data Oct 28 17:16:16 I want to use Android's facilities Oct 28 17:16:30 morrildl, I mean on the console - I know that graphics go through dalvik Oct 28 17:17:21 smr: Assets and resources are not files, sadly. They're stored on the device in the same .apk you packed for installation. Oct 28 17:18:18 yep. I've figured that out :( So that's why I've written something to stream a file directly into a byte array. Oct 28 17:18:32 thoraxe: isn't it possible to install android in another smart phone like htc tytan? All the development/test is done with emulators? Oct 28 17:18:51 gustavold: no idea about what devices currently support android Oct 28 17:19:03 gustavold: why does everyone who comes in here automatically assume we're lying if they don't get an answer they like? Oct 28 17:19:27 the htc G1 is the only one officially supporting android right now, afaik Oct 28 17:23:34 yay k-9 is fixed. :) Oct 28 17:24:14 davidw: ah, you mean native code Oct 28 17:24:42 morrildl, yeah... I don't mean anything official or supported or distributed or anything like that Oct 28 17:25:03 morrildl, I want to settle an argument with a friend - he sustains that it's not possible to put your own code on the g1 and run it. Oct 28 17:25:13 I simply don't know, and thus my question Oct 28 17:25:19 davidw: you can load native .so libs via System.loadLibrary(). You can also store a native binary as something like a res/raw/ resource, and copy it to /data/app/ as an executable, and I believe that should work Oct 28 17:25:31 it does work Oct 28 17:25:36 davidw: but /sdcard is mounted noexec for security reasons on production devices Oct 28 17:25:37 but it uses twice the storage :( Oct 28 17:25:45 romainguy_: indeed :( Oct 28 17:26:23 romainguy, I'm not asking if it's recommended or efficient or if I can put apps in the marketplace that do it... I just want to know if it's possible, and what restrictions there are Oct 28 17:26:27 davidw: that, the lack of easy access to the graphics pipeline and framework code, and the fact that your binary will only be able to access your own /data/app/and SD card are the main limitations Oct 28 17:26:47 morrildl, right... there's something about not being able to do root? Oct 28 17:26:58 davidw: and I'm just calling out the drawback of this solution Oct 28 17:26:59 davidw: su is not present on the device Oct 28 17:27:20 davidw: you might be able to invoke the syscall for chuser(0) but I can't remember if that's disabled or not Oct 28 17:27:36 romainguy, it's an "intellectual curiousity" thing... not something I'm about to do Oct 28 17:27:51 swetland: will chuser(0) work on retail devices, from native code? Oct 28 17:28:14 you mean setuid(0)? Oct 28 17:28:19 enf: er, duh, yeah Oct 28 17:28:38 * morrildl hasn't written unix system code in way too long Oct 28 17:28:48 davidw: hasn't this been explained 3 or 4 times already just today? Oct 28 17:28:53 eheheh... I have been doing some C work for a client and I understand Oct 28 17:29:01 not unless the process running it has the setuid bit set or is already root, which isn't supposed to happen on production devices Oct 28 17:29:03 seems like every time i come back i see you asking the same question and getting the same answer Oct 28 17:29:08 enf: right Oct 28 17:29:13 Disconnect, a lot of people said "I think so", but I wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth Oct 28 17:29:19 gd i love this phone Oct 28 17:29:23 davidw: so there you are :) Oct 28 17:29:24 ..a lot of people said "yes" and a few said "i did it" Oct 28 17:29:28 Disconnect, I trust romainguy and morrildl's answers more than I do random people:-) Oct 28 17:29:37 Disconnect, one guy did it with some other device. Oct 28 17:29:39 enf: thx Oct 28 17:29:46 some people did it with the emlator Oct 28 17:29:52 morrildl, thanks for taking the time to answer:-) Oct 28 17:29:58 in the emulator, adb is running as root Oct 28 17:30:03 funky Oct 28 17:30:26 if I use my cdma phone to interfere with the edge tower's signal, I've got a reliable 2 bars of 3G Oct 28 17:30:43 heehee Oct 28 17:31:24 bah, I tire of MD2 models. I'll just use my own format. Oct 28 17:34:27 can I get thoughts on - http://review.source.android.com/1545 ? It's my first attempt at a patch which adds escalate support to the alarm clock Oct 28 17:34:31 how come I am getting jarsigner: unable to open jar file: when i try to sign my app? Oct 28 17:34:53 'ooh Oct 28 17:36:04 hoi Oct 28 17:36:57 mithro: I suspect we'd want to first decide wheter notification manager continues to manage alarm volume Oct 28 17:36:59 always user error :< Oct 28 17:37:09 mithro: wait for the review :) Oct 28 17:37:22 why this programm doesnt runs? http://nopaste.org/p/a8CfNLwwz Oct 28 17:37:34 there are reasons to do it directly in the clock, but to date volumes are managed by the platform rather than the clock ap Oct 28 17:37:36 mithro: what do you call "escalate" alarms? the volume gets louder? Oct 28 17:37:46 romainguy: yes Oct 28 17:38:00 starts at zero and the sound grows Oct 28 17:38:33 * blount wrote the alarmclock :-) Oct 28 17:38:56 blount: ha :) Oct 28 17:39:10 I'm pretty unhappy with the lack of volume control, but we haven't nailed down exactly what to do about it Oct 28 17:39:15 it works pretty well Oct 28 17:40:03 and I'm fairly careful to restore the volume after the escalate Oct 28 17:40:21 heh, unless your app gets killed... Oct 28 17:41:18 I wondered if volumes at the system level or at the app level? Oct 28 17:41:20 And if the volume gets changed in the middle you're probably going to restore the old value, not the one that was changed. Oct 28 17:42:30 hi! does somebody knows how to compile the debug target in the android source code? Oct 28 17:42:53 just type make? Oct 28 17:43:16 romainguy_: i get the release target Oct 28 17:44:05 blount: it seems to me that there probably needs some differentiation between the system and current application volume Oct 28 17:44:47 different volume per application? Oct 28 17:44:52 mithro: as it stands (and as you've no doubt figured out), the alarm clock has its own audio channel, that is currently always hardwired to max Oct 28 17:45:16 this has the downside that you can't silence alarms Oct 28 17:45:25 blount: I thought that channel was just a generic "alarms" channel Oct 28 17:45:38 (which the alarm clock made use of) Oct 28 17:45:41 I think the clock is the only thing on it Oct 28 17:45:54 (I haven't looked in a while to be sure) Oct 28 17:46:15 but it has the upside that you can't mistakenly miss an alarm since you silenced your fone Oct 28 17:46:49 imho, we are needing a better platform way of showing what all the current alarm statuses and volume levels are than we currently have Oct 28 17:46:55 has anyone tried K9 mail yet? Oct 28 17:47:09 I'd very much like to get an escalating alarm in as you've done, but just not sure where to put it yet Oct 28 17:47:20 btw, it's great to see code like this come in! Oct 28 17:47:42 morrildl, http://code.google.com/android/roadmap.html - you guys might want to update that:-) Oct 28 17:47:53 blount: So is the open-source community thing actually working? Oct 28 17:47:59 blount: Are good patches getting rolled in to the tree? Oct 28 17:48:40 ttuttle: honestly, I've been too busy working to look at it much Oct 28 17:48:40 davidw: yeah we're working on a docs refresh Oct 28 17:48:42 thoraxe: our Email guy looked at K9 and apparently the way they handle IMAP delete is not correct Oct 28 17:48:47 good bugs are getting filed. whether they make it in is left to be seen Oct 28 17:48:50 davidw: it will get updated soon Oct 28 17:49:10 romainguy_: i filed some bugs today about imap. hopefully they help Oct 28 17:49:13 thoraxe: I assume they'll get fixed eventually. Oct 28 17:49:35 thoraxe: i use it, now that its working Oct 28 17:50:01 romainguy_: is that the same Email guy that released the current disaster on the world? if so, its a resounding endorsement of k-9.... Oct 28 17:50:10 ??? Oct 28 17:51:03 no deletes. few updates (read/unread, etc). no moves. no notifications. no subscribe/unsubscribe. no multi-delete. no offense, but thats not someone i'd trust to define whats correct in an email app.. Oct 28 17:51:09 deletes work ine for me Oct 28 17:51:13 notifications word fine Oct 28 17:51:15 ohh, jason responded to me this morning Oct 28 17:51:29 and the other ones I agree, these are missing features Oct 28 17:51:33 romainguy_: on production units? or is this more "ooh we've got an engineering fix" noise? Oct 28 17:51:39 Disconnect: you use which? Oct 28 17:51:41 production unit Oct 28 17:51:44 thoraxe: k-9 Oct 28 17:51:58 romainguy_: deletes don't work at all Oct 28 17:52:01 romainguy: then you are amazingly lucky. nobody else seems to be able to mark mail deleted. Oct 28 17:52:08 not with imap at least Oct 28 17:52:20 (you could technically call 'expunge' a feature not a bug) Oct 28 17:52:25 Disconnect: even if I agreed with your statement, I'd still argue that there are many ways to do something wrong - the fact that something is done differently from a wrong approach doesn't mean that it's right. Oct 28 17:52:40 hahaha Oct 28 17:52:49 See also: Vista Oct 28 17:53:19 jbq: that's so pre 9/11 of you. In this post 9/11 world, there is only right and wrong, black and white. Never grey. Oct 28 17:53:19 jbq: sure, but i'm just saying i would hesitate to take cooking advice from someone arrested by the dept of health... Oct 28 17:53:24 blount: I think I fixed the problem with if the app crash with a low volume Oct 28 17:53:43 random side note, is vibration supposed to fire for incoming emails or gmails? Oct 28 17:53:50 if its in vibrate-only silent mode? Oct 28 17:53:55 Never grey. Always gray. Oct 28 17:53:59 marcone: heh, how about Michael Jackson? black, or white? Oct 28 17:54:06 jbq: gray Oct 28 17:54:19 ..but speaking of people i don't take advice from :) Oct 28 17:55:02 as MJ himself said: "It don't matter if you're black or white" Oct 28 17:55:08 romainguy_: yay, looks like I got Jason's endorsement of my design. Oct 28 17:55:18 so i'll proceed this weekend Oct 28 17:56:02 any idea why that programm isnt running? http://nopaste.org/p/a8CfNLwwz Oct 28 17:56:03 cool Oct 28 17:56:51 Disconnect: fwiw, here's the email author's remark about K-9's implementation Oct 28 17:56:56 "Their first change was to add IMAP delete functionality... which was already there. They added new code that ignores the delete policy and deletes without copying the message to Trash first. Unless I'm not getting it, it seems like they just missed a setting that enables this feature already" Oct 28 17:57:54 romainguy_: can you explain how the trash folder is supposed to work? Oct 28 17:58:05 how would i sign my app through eclipse? Oct 28 17:58:12 not an unreasonable statement so far as it goes. but - at least on my production unit - there is no policy setting, and i've -never- seen a client that built a trash folder by magic without copying status (deleted, read, etc) to teh server Oct 28 17:58:12 I push pixels, I don't know anything about IMAP :) Oct 28 17:58:21 pixels eh Oct 28 17:58:24 there's a lot of them on this thing Oct 28 17:58:42 not as many as I'd have liked to see though Oct 28 17:58:43 ;-) Oct 28 17:58:53 ugh meetin,g bbl Oct 28 17:58:54 840 x 480 Oct 28 17:59:03 Anyone know about general 3D programming? Oct 28 17:59:08 romainguy_: well, you would expect that pressing "delete" on an email would do what imap does (mark for deletion). it just appears that the android email app doesn't do that Oct 28 17:59:19 romainguy_: it also likes to think email exists that doesn't Oct 28 17:59:22 and folders Oct 28 18:00:07 hmm... which romain is the romain Oct 28 18:01:19 all of them Oct 28 18:01:35 ah ok Oct 28 18:01:43 well, hopefully the delete/email/folder stuff will get fixed Oct 28 18:01:56 until then i will just have to use the email client to read Oct 28 18:03:20 who is happy for the g1 price cut at wal-mart? :-) Oct 28 18:03:20 Wow, G1 at walmart for $150? Oct 28 18:03:29 Dougie187: What?! Oct 28 18:03:31 $148 Oct 28 18:03:32 Dougie187: with a contract only? Oct 28 18:03:39 michaelnovakjr: of course Oct 28 18:03:44 gr Oct 28 18:03:46 michaelnovakjr: probably Oct 28 18:03:51 it's still tmo Oct 28 18:03:51 http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/28/t-mobile-g1-coming-to-walmart-for-148-88/ Oct 28 18:03:59 tethridge: doesn't matter to me Oct 28 18:04:06 i just want a test device Oct 28 18:04:22 go get it month to month. Oct 28 18:04:38 i just did jarsigner -verify myapp.apk and it came out jar verifid. Oct 28 18:04:38 you mean the prepaid ones? Oct 28 18:04:45 then i try to load it to my phone and it won't install Oct 28 18:04:55 what's your error androoid ? Oct 28 18:05:08 application install unsuccessful Oct 28 18:05:13 when I try to install it Oct 28 18:05:14 michaelnovakjr: yeah. Oct 28 18:05:24 interesting, didn't know you could do that Oct 28 18:05:42 hi from my g1! Oct 28 18:05:46 Dougie187: do you still get the phone for $180 or do you have to pay the full full price Oct 28 18:06:04 you pay $400 but you can cancel you don't need a plan. Oct 28 18:06:13 now to find a real irc client... Oct 28 18:06:17 just activate it, add your gmail acct, and cancel your plan then use wifi Oct 28 18:06:21 * ttuttle should write an IRC client. Oct 28 18:06:37 im on via mibbit Oct 28 18:06:53 Dougie187: $400 is a lot Oct 28 18:06:57 kinda sucks Oct 28 18:07:12 michaelnovakjr: its not terrible for a test device... Oct 28 18:07:16 i dont care if its locked down... Oct 28 18:07:30 you could always just get it and keep it for 14 days. Oct 28 18:07:31 then return it Oct 28 18:09:00 yes you should ttuttle Oct 28 18:09:04 yea this arrived today and it turns out ive got 0 coverage at home Oct 28 18:09:20 Dougie187: i'll end up getting one eventually Oct 28 18:09:34 ironfroggy: you can get out of your contract if that's the case Oct 28 18:09:39 thank FSM for wifi. wife isnt so lucky. Oct 28 18:09:53 oh? Oct 28 18:10:17 thinking of getting a booster. if they really work... Oct 28 18:10:24 argh Oct 28 18:10:24 I want to see that engadget link, but I can't Oct 28 18:10:28 DNS is screwed up in my building, half the internet can't resolve Oct 28 18:10:41 can you use alternate DNS? Oct 28 18:10:43 after I sign it, does it only work in the market? Oct 28 18:10:53 BHSPitWeb: why not use opendns? Oct 28 18:11:08 or ssh and socks proxy your traffic. Oct 28 18:11:21 hi everyone Oct 28 18:11:36 What is the new method for getCurrentPostition for the position manager? Oct 28 18:12:47 ? Oct 28 18:15:42 umdk1d3: ur app published yet? Oct 28 18:15:44 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/2f65a7d31e3648d5/0c2e6e7254ac8c01?lnk=gst&q=application+install+unsuccessful#0c2e6e7254ac8c01 Oct 28 18:16:14 disappearedng: getLastKnownLocation() perhaps? Oct 28 18:17:31 nah I am getting an error from that Oct 28 18:17:54 This is what I am doing: getLastKnownLocation(myManager.getBestProvider(new Criteria(), true)).getLatitude(); Oct 28 18:18:07 I tried getLastKnownLocation() already thx Oct 28 18:18:33 what is the error you're getting? Oct 28 18:20:18 Stopped unexpectedly please try again Oct 28 18:20:30 All I want is a simple location Oct 28 18:21:08 "Stopped unexpectedly" sounds like you're getting an exception in your application. 'logcat' should tell you what the exception is. Oct 28 18:21:33 how do I go about logcat? Oct 28 18:21:56 adb logcat on the command line disappearedng Oct 28 18:22:02 'adb shell logcat', or use the DDMS plugin in eclipse and view the logcat tab Oct 28 18:22:08 ok Oct 28 18:22:12 public LocationProvider getProvider(String name) Oct 28 18:22:16 What string can I try Oct 28 18:22:18 brb Oct 28 18:22:50 iirc there is also a standalone tool, binary called `ddms` which displays the same as the eclipse view Oct 28 18:23:15 (there is definitely one just not sure about the binary name) Oct 28 18:23:32 in any case, my guess would be you're getting a null pointer exception. Since you've chained a bunch together on to one line, that makes it a bit hard to debug. I would suggest breaking that up in to multiple calls, and then stepping through it in the debugger to see where it goes wrong. Oct 28 18:23:33 disappearedng: try LocationManager.NETWORK_PROVIDER or GPS_PROVIDER Oct 28 18:23:49 here is my post on google groups to my problem... http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/b1e42d421cc94b26 Oct 28 18:26:40 marcone: Just exactly how does one get a Null-Pointer-Exception in a garbage collected language (unless the GC doesn't work)? Oct 28 18:27:17 Integer i = null; i;? Oct 28 18:27:56 The compiler should barf all over that, I would think. Oct 28 18:28:25 TreyB: String s = null; String t = s + "\n"; Oct 28 18:28:48 TreyB: in the example above, if 'myManager' were null, then myManager.getBestProvider() would result in an NPE. Oct 28 18:29:07 myManager.getBestProvider() might return null, if no provider can be found Oct 28 18:29:34 ooh I see andnav on the apps Oct 28 18:32:41 * TreyB should probably resist the urge to post under the influence of cold medicine. Oct 28 18:32:58 w00t, got my ExtUSB to 2.5mm adapter Oct 28 18:33:12 Death_Syn: nice Oct 28 18:33:20 yep Oct 28 18:33:22 works, too Oct 28 18:33:34 nobody around me that sells HTC devices seems to carry such a thing Oct 28 18:33:37 I don't get why Oct 28 18:33:43 there's so much headset sales they're losing Oct 28 18:33:44 treyb: codeine cough syrup? Oct 28 18:34:09 I hope it doesn't come to that. Oct 28 18:34:40 I mean, it works great, but I'd rather not need it :-) Oct 28 18:36:13 I wound up buying two. One to keep at work and the other to keep in my car Oct 28 18:36:14 sweet. I typed /join #android on impulse..and boy its packin! :) Oct 28 18:36:44 smr: 2 what? Oct 28 18:36:50 G1s? Oct 28 18:37:00 extUSB adapter Oct 28 18:37:08 :) Oct 28 18:37:10 ahh Oct 28 18:37:24 next i want to get a splitter so I can charge my phone and run headset at the same time Oct 28 18:38:03 I got one of those in my car. I have that in my car and a extUSB->3.5mm at my desk here Oct 28 18:38:18 They're dirt cheap on Amazon, but then there's shipping Oct 28 18:38:23 Anyone in here on the Nov 10th G1 list? Oct 28 18:38:29 Hrm... my phone is whining about the update now. What's contained in that? Oct 28 18:38:49 andyross: bug fixes, amazon mp3 store file corruption fix, and a security fix for the browser Oct 28 18:39:06 geencookie: i was, but i canceled it and went in and bought my g1 at the local tmobile store Oct 28 18:39:06 andyross: which update is it offering? Oct 28 18:39:30 Death_Syn: was the amazon problem an android problem, or just an update for the amazon app? Oct 28 18:39:44 neekers, nice. I should have done that too. I just upgraded over the internet yesterday, only to find out they were in backorder :( Oct 28 18:39:46 zhobbs: dunno, only what I read on the forums Oct 28 18:39:52 I don't know, it just says "an update is available" and warns that I won't be able to make emergency calls (?) while it's in progress. But it sounds like it's nothing that's going to hose any development work. Oct 28 18:40:25 andyross: i haven't seen/heard of anyone having issues with it so far Oct 28 18:40:37 greencookie: call tmobile customer service and tell them you would rather buy locally, i'm sure they will cancel it for you Oct 28 18:40:51 the tmobile people on forums seem to indicate that they're being conservative on updates right now to not rock the boat too much Oct 28 18:41:01 neekers, I should try that today. Oct 28 18:41:03 Damn, it's tough being on the bleeding edge... Writing code is so tough right now because of the lack of good documentation Oct 28 18:41:19 G1 launches in UK Thursday, apparently Oct 28 18:42:02 is there any way to see the market and reviews and such from pc? Oct 28 18:42:12 mpardo: good question Oct 28 18:42:12 mpardo: no Oct 28 18:42:17 blah Oct 28 18:42:19 smr: That cuts both ways though. People who can't figure stuff out for themselves are at a comparative disadvantage in the market. :) Oct 28 18:42:20 k thx Oct 28 18:42:34 heh Oct 28 18:42:37 andyross: right, but this is really a son of a bitch Oct 28 18:43:55 the total shit apps are hitting the market as we speak :) Oct 28 18:44:01 demos and such Oct 28 18:44:24 waldo_: We should get a group of people together to systematically rank demos with 1 star, like the Amazon thing. Oct 28 18:44:31 * blount waits for the wave of "I am rich" knockoffs Oct 28 18:44:33 well not every app is going to be great Oct 28 18:44:35 waldo_: The other things will work themselves out. Oct 28 18:44:38 Yeah. Hopefully they start culling or hiding some of the junkier stuff as the market fills up. I guess there's a popularity scale, which will help some. Oct 28 18:44:38 ttuttle yeah Oct 28 18:44:42 is there a list of g1 apps somewhere on the web? Oct 28 18:44:55 s/g1/android/g :) Oct 28 18:45:46 greencookie: andapps.org , helloandroid.com/apps , slideme.org Oct 28 18:45:54 fwiw the stores have been warned that the g1 upgrade might wipe out all user-generated data (ie non-cloud stuff - app installs, saved data, etc. anything not on sd card.) Oct 28 18:45:54 sweet! thanks zhobbs Oct 28 18:46:00 it's like people, a lot of them are just demos of what they could really be. Oct 28 18:46:06 greencookie: but none of them compare to the Market Oct 28 18:46:08 ha Oct 28 18:46:10 zhobbs: well, come on, none of those repos are anything like the market ;) Oct 28 18:46:11 rofl neekers Oct 28 18:46:15 oh, you already admitted that Oct 28 18:46:16 hehe Oct 28 18:46:23 greencookie try http://andappstore.com Oct 28 18:46:36 thnx waldo_ Oct 28 18:47:51 interesting apps :) Oct 28 18:48:13 offcourse a lot of people must have put their hard work into it so :) :D Oct 28 18:48:43 are these apps free ? Oct 28 18:49:04 for now yes, paid apps are not yet supported Oct 28 18:49:12 sweet Oct 28 18:49:20 keep it that way :) Oct 28 18:49:44 I'm having an issue where my application is dying on the line "if (someclassinstance == null) {" Oct 28 18:49:44 ::wishful thinking:: Oct 28 18:49:53 it doesn't make sense Oct 28 18:50:31 oh there's iSkoot for skype app? I thought tmobile didnt allow for making voice calls over their data plan..or was i mistaken>/? Oct 28 18:50:59 iskoot doesn't do voice calls afaik Oct 28 18:51:10 thought it was basically just IM Oct 28 18:51:15 I think that's the case Oct 28 18:51:28 it says I have a null pointer exception Oct 28 18:51:34 but I'm checking the pointer against null Oct 28 18:51:52 From the description: Acess your Skype contacts, make & receive Skype calls, chat, and place SkypeOut calls to phone numbers all over the world." Oct 28 18:51:55 found the info. it makes straight voice calls into a skype gateway.. Oct 28 18:52:19 " iSkoot for Skype leverages the voice-optimized circuit-switched wireless networks of mobile carriers, allowing for full operation even without access to WiFi or 3G networks and ensuring the best possible call quality. Normal carrier voice and data charges always apply." Oct 28 18:52:22 http://news.softpedia.com/news/iSkoot-Announces-the-First-VoIP-Application-for-Android-G1-96589.shtml Oct 28 18:52:26 so its fine - its just a voice call Oct 28 18:52:47 Oh. okay. cool Oct 28 18:53:05 i was kinda excited that I could do it over wifi or the data plan :) Oct 28 18:53:28 herriorj: are you sure that line shouldn't read "if (someclassinstance != null) {" ? Oct 28 18:54:05 ok, I figured it out, the line numbers are inaccurate Oct 28 18:59:45 does anyone know if it's possible to get street numbers from the reverse geocoding built into android? i only get street names so far.. Oct 28 18:59:50 so what distro you guys recommend to dev android source on? Oct 28 19:00:34 DJTachyon: there is no recommendation for that Oct 28 19:00:44 windows!!!!!!!!!! Oct 28 19:00:45 in general, i recommend ubuntu, but that has absolutely nothing to do with android. Oct 28 19:00:50 totally a joke Oct 28 19:00:55 i use ubuntu as well Oct 28 19:00:58 heh Oct 28 19:01:07 i am running VMWare Workstation Oct 28 19:01:10 in XP Oct 28 19:01:16 _ugh_ Oct 28 19:01:25 :P Oct 28 19:01:56 eclipse on xp works just fine for me Oct 28 19:01:59 im too lazy to get a linux box out Oct 28 19:02:09 DJTachyon: then why'd you ask? Oct 28 19:02:16 actually nevermind, i don't care Oct 28 19:02:36 because im trying to figure out which distro to install on the VM Oct 28 19:02:38 oh and for the record, the vibe does fire when an email comes in in silent mode. its just so weak and brief that i miss it every single time :( Oct 28 19:02:53 Ill probably put on Ubunu Oct 28 19:02:55 Has anyone here tried the whitepages caller id? Oct 28 19:02:55 +t Oct 28 19:03:06 DJTachyon: fwiw i use ubuntu and osx Oct 28 19:04:10 okays .. last distro I used was gentoo 64-bit on a SPARC ULTRA1 .. otherwise I just use cygwin Oct 28 19:04:14 i know .. I'm lame ;) Oct 28 19:04:56 romainguy_: In retrospect, there's an obvious problem with disallowing zero animation durations - animations generated from attribute sets often don't specify a duration which defaults to zero. Oct 28 19:06:00 Anyone every have any problems loading assets with getAssets().openXmlResourceParser()? Oct 28 19:06:33 I get a filenotfound exception when the file is clearly there. I can only think that maybe the build process is not including the assets in my apk Oct 28 19:09:51 smr: you can view the contents of your APK with "unzip" Oct 28 19:09:53 we still cant theme android? Oct 28 19:10:51 when doing a query on People.CONTENT_URI on the G1, and I pass in People.DISPLAY_NAME + " desc" as the orderBy, it isn't sorting it, has anyone else experienced this, or am I doing it wrong? Oct 28 19:11:08 ah, the documentation is wrong Oct 28 19:11:24 hmm the 64AMD build of ubuntu is intel 64 compatible too? Oct 28 19:11:27 how do i delete all app data? Oct 28 19:13:12 man i can't wait for vpn client Oct 28 19:13:20 or vnc ;) Oct 28 19:13:34 ooh vnc would be interesting Oct 28 19:13:55 DJTachyon: not IA64, but EM64T, yes Oct 28 19:14:29 Anyone know if there's a better way to access the device than using adb shell? It seems useless -- no permission to kill processes or even to view most directories. Oct 28 19:14:51 Not until someone finds a way out of the lockdown, now. Oct 28 19:14:52 er, no Oct 28 19:15:16 fyi, this works: http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com/ We just unlocked a few of them Oct 28 19:15:20 It seems that opening an asset requires me to include 'assets/' in the path, though everything I've read on the internet shows otherwise Oct 28 19:15:25 oh alright .. so this ubuntu-8.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso will work on my Q6600 then? Oct 28 19:15:27 zhobbs: thank Oct 28 19:15:28 blort Oct 28 19:15:29 *thanks Oct 28 19:15:37 DJTachyon: yes Oct 28 19:15:46 It's like Android is fighting me every step of the way on my way to creating an application Oct 28 19:15:51 heh Oct 28 19:16:46 smr: FWIW, I crawled around in the code for assets yesterday and decided that they're basically cruft. Raw resources seem to be the better supported API. Oct 28 19:17:22 But conceptually my files are not resources, they are assets Oct 28 19:17:39 Specifically 3D models and the various textures and shaders to go along with Oct 28 19:17:42 my first time installing a VM, this should be fun :) Oct 28 19:17:44 Meh. Physically, they're exactly the same things: files in your .apk zip archive. Oct 28 19:18:30 No, as far as I have read resources are compiled in Oct 28 19:18:43 No, raw resources are files in your archive. Take a look. :) Oct 28 19:18:54 Do any of you know where the Messaging app stores its data? My most pressing need is to back up my text messages. My phone is physically defective & I need to swap it out. Oct 28 19:19:41 It's true that resources have the device-type and I18N indirection features, which you might not care about or want. It's a thicker API. But like I said, it's easier to figure out. My guess is that assets were an early idea that didn't quite get dropped before 1.0 was stamped. Oct 28 19:19:51 oh joy-- Wal Mart gets the g1 tomorrow I think http://androidcommunity.com/wal_mart-confirmed-to-sell-t-mobile-g1-very-soon-20081028/ Oct 28 19:20:00 perhaps you're right, though the documentation is misleading: "Resources are external files (that is, non-code files) that are used by your code and compiled into your application at build time." Oct 28 19:20:17 undiscover: thats one of those things you aren't to be trusted with on the g1 unfortunately Oct 28 19:20:50 I'm certainly no expert, and maybe some of the googlers here want to step in and explain what the point of assets is. But I couldn't see one. Oct 28 19:21:54 disconnect: ah, sucks. Oct 28 19:21:58 recommendations on the NIC? NAT or Bridged for the CM? Oct 28 19:22:08 andyross: you're right, assets came first Oct 28 19:22:17 aww workstation only supports 2 CPUS :P Oct 28 19:22:21 untill someone roots the g1 that is. Oct 28 19:22:22 assets are files that are bundled directly into the apk file Oct 28 19:22:24 which is just a zip file Oct 28 19:22:46 One frustrating inconsistency with assets is that AssetManager has a method called "openXmlResourceParser", but it only seems to parse binary XML resources. XML files in assets are not compiled to binary." Oct 28 19:22:52 resources are built into a file that's indexed reasonably, and identified by the resource id Oct 28 19:23:09 BruteSource: sure but thats not today. and with a defective unit he could really use that most basic of smartphone apps.. the backup/restore app. oops.. except thats not secure enough. its way more secure to lose everything periodically :( Oct 28 19:23:29 aapt will convert xml files to binary xml if they're in a directory called xml Oct 28 19:23:30 lol Oct 28 19:23:59 it could be today, who knows.. suprised it has taken this long really. Oct 28 19:24:00 some resources, like drawables and xml files are pointers to assets Oct 28 19:24:34 i wonder if facebook will make an app Oct 28 19:24:46 and like andyross said, resources handle i18n and all of the other configurations. assets are just blobs. Oct 28 19:24:52 thoraxe: their platform is open. Oct 28 19:24:54 thoraxe, The APIs are freely available. Oct 28 19:25:07 this is frustrating Oct 28 19:25:28 Facebook doesn't make apps for computers/devices Oct 28 19:25:33 thoraxe: they've said unequivicably no, they don't like google. but they aren't going to hassle anyone else who does it. Oct 28 19:25:41 BHSPitWeb: actually istr they did the iphone app in house Oct 28 19:25:48 I just want a folder called "models" that has XML files which I can read with AssetManager.openXmlResourceParser Oct 28 19:25:51 thoraxe: With word from Motorola about their planned Android phone, I'm sure Facebook integration will come in some form or another Oct 28 19:25:56 seriously tehy'er selling htem at walmart tomorrow Oct 28 19:26:11 The conundrum is, how would the facebook app provider make money off the app until there's a paid mechanism to generate returns. Oct 28 19:26:15 DJTachyon: yah but thats moto dev money not fb dev money. Oct 28 19:26:22 Whoever writes the first NASCAR app makes a billion dollars Oct 28 19:26:38 i'm not sure facebook allows ad revenue from 3rd party app vendors that plugin to their api to be carried over from 3rd party ad networks. Oct 28 19:26:48 Disconnect: it was a facebook employee's project, so yes, it was technically "in-house", but they don't claim it as being official. Oct 28 19:27:30 heh apparently so Waldo .. wow Oct 28 19:27:37 $150 for a G1 at Walmart Oct 28 19:28:29 DJTachyon: imho, a more reasonable price. Oct 28 19:28:30 cuz the facebook website doesn't work awesome Oct 28 19:28:34 ya with a 2 yr contract Oct 28 19:28:38 yeah Oct 28 19:28:42 still a contract involved Oct 28 19:28:44 especially for the quality of device you're getting. Oct 28 19:28:45 i am pissed about the walmart price, but whatever, $30 Oct 28 19:28:51 yeah Oct 28 19:29:01 guess my wife gets hers cheaper next month now ;) Oct 28 19:29:02 sigh imap email let's fix you Oct 28 19:29:34 thoraxe: jlapenna-laptop made an app for facebook Oct 28 19:29:38 thoraxe: it's called Statusinator Oct 28 19:29:49 i thought it just did status Oct 28 19:29:51 thoraxe: it just handles status and pictures for now Oct 28 19:29:51 jgib: i thought that was just for status Oct 28 19:29:53 true. Oct 28 19:29:53 i can do that (and more) with hellotxt.com Oct 28 19:30:00 yeah... i'd like the phonebook Oct 28 19:30:05 looks like ebay is still my only choice Oct 28 19:30:06 and without sucking down the seriously limited storage Oct 28 19:30:15 not that it would've helped me yesterday cuz the guy's number wasn't on FB but still Oct 28 19:30:16 argh my VMWare setup is hanging Oct 28 19:30:16 seriously limited storage indeed :( Oct 28 19:33:03 The api does not provide access to phone numbers. :( Oct 28 19:33:11 wow thats lame Oct 28 19:33:13 I'd have to screen scrape, and that is against TOS Oct 28 19:33:33 How much storage is onboard a G1? Oct 28 19:33:48 nobody needs more than like 16k right? Oct 28 19:34:38 it's 128MB i think, for apps Oct 28 19:34:58 101MB according to /proc/meminfo Oct 28 19:35:02 I'd sure like a GPhone. Oct 28 19:35:08 =( Hope they move beyond TMobile soon Oct 28 19:35:14 You get about 100MB of RAM and 70MB of internal flash. Oct 28 19:35:45 * smr is frustrated with Android API Oct 28 19:35:45 and then of course there's the MiniSD Card which can have 16GB Oct 28 19:35:49 you can't store apps on the sdcard? Oct 28 19:35:50 How do I just get a location? Oct 28 19:35:54 128 but some is carved off at the top to deal with some multimedia stuff Oct 28 19:35:57 Putting apps on /sdcard has some issues, in that apps can be modified/corrupted by any other app, and removing the sdcard or enabling USB mass storage causes running apps to freakk. Oct 28 19:36:04 that's pretty common with SOCs that dont support scatter gather dma Oct 28 19:36:38 what's a GPhone? Oct 28 19:36:54 its one higher than an FPhone Oct 28 19:37:00 do we have screenshots of each widget somewhere? Oct 28 19:37:06 And two lower than an iPhone :( Oct 28 19:37:10 In theory now that the android source is OSS if a phone company made a locked down android phone or someone makes a patch I want can I "re flash" an android phone? Oct 28 19:37:31 we really need a faq Oct 28 19:37:34 Yeah. Oct 28 19:37:39 sorry :( Oct 28 19:37:40 FAQ #1: google does not make phones Oct 28 19:37:47 fadden: It's not that hard, plain old MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_POPULATE will get you a copy that other applications can't hose with file access. Oct 28 19:37:50 BHSPitWeb: actually more like 35 lower. caps comes first Oct 28 19:38:02 34 even Oct 28 19:38:04 like Oct 28 19:38:18 I didnt say google, was I being a bad? Oct 28 19:38:22 fadden: sounds more like a frequently sought answer than a frequently asked question Oct 28 19:38:25 I keep getting an error for Double latPoint = myManager.getLastKnownLocation(myManager.GPS_PROVIDER).getLatitude(); Oct 28 19:38:31 andyross: that'll keep mods/truncation from affecting the app while it runs, but remember that Android apps can be killed and restarted pretty freely. Oct 28 19:38:48 geist: I anticipated that sort of reply from somebody. Nerd. Oct 28 19:38:59 guilty as charged Oct 28 19:39:04 Yes, and a failed application load isn't that huge a deal, is it? Just a checksum over the .apk file stored somewhere under /data is enough to fix that. Oct 28 19:39:59 andyross: I'm not saying it's a non-starter. I'm saying it has issues. Oct 28 19:40:10 fadden: I always thought that you couldnt run apps off the SD Card b/c it was mounted as noexec? Oct 28 19:40:14 sdcard ejection is going to be the one that bites people. Oct 28 19:40:25 unix_lappy: you can run interpreted (Dalvik) code. Oct 28 19:40:34 * waldo_ is away: eating Oct 28 19:40:36 And put your big fat APK files with tons of graphics there. Oct 28 19:40:46 * waldo_ is away: eating Oct 28 19:40:52 But things can get corrupted, or fall over, or disappear completely when you swap sdcards. Oct 28 19:41:24 It creates a variety of new failure modes that customer service will have to address. Oct 28 19:41:34 ahh, so you essentially read from SD Card to memory and executes from there. Oct 28 19:41:40 * waldo_ is away: eating Oct 28 19:41:54 waldo_ is annoying: #android Oct 28 19:42:09 unix_lappy: actually, we memory-map the input file, so that the pages can be discarded and reloaded when things get tight Oct 28 19:42:15 Hi everyone Oct 28 19:42:23 how do I debug in android? Oct 28 19:42:49 * waldo_ is away: eating this time for real Oct 28 19:42:55 disappearedng: ... carefully? Oct 28 19:43:20 disappearedng: I believe the Eclipse / Android docs cover debugging. Oct 28 19:43:55 ok Oct 28 19:44:11 Look for stuff about "DDMS" in particular. Oct 28 19:44:34 snakes on a phone Oct 28 19:44:38 awesome Oct 28 19:46:17 BruteSource: no, snakes on a phone is when you get python or a derivative working :-P Oct 28 19:46:57 I've had it with these motherfscking snakes on this motherfscking phone! Oct 28 19:46:57 Can anyone help me debug? Constructor: service = android.location.ILocationManager$Stub$Proxy@433737c0 threadid=3: thread exiting with uncaught exception (group=0x40010e28) Oct 28 19:47:05 so slow ;) Oct 28 19:47:16 where my code is Double latPoint = myManager.getLastKnownLocation("gps").getLatitude(); Oct 28 19:48:00 disappearedng: stick a try block around it, catch Throwable, and log the stack trace? Oct 28 19:48:19 ok hold on Oct 28 19:48:26 What exception is being thrown? Oct 28 19:48:47 e.g. try { ... } catch(Throwable e) { Log.i("TAG", Log.getStackTraceString(e); } Oct 28 19:48:47 That's been working well for me. Oct 28 19:49:32 well just tried creating an Ubuntu VM and it hung :P Oct 28 19:49:38 You can also Log.i("TAG", "whoops", e), though you'll probably get the same info out of it. Oct 28 19:49:48 k Oct 28 19:50:12 It takes exceptions as raw parameters? Good to know. Oct 28 19:50:51 Optional third arg. It just turns into "msg + '\n' + getStackTraceString(tr)". Oct 28 19:51:48 I've found an inconsistency with the AssetManager Oct 28 19:52:47 AssetManager.open will find "cube.xml", but AssetManager.openXmlResourceParser() will not Oct 28 19:53:05 openXmlResourceParser requires that I user "assets/cube.xml" Oct 28 19:55:30 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 28 19:56:46 shove it inside Oct 28 19:58:01 woo hoo Ubuntu is installing on my VM :) Oct 28 19:59:54 doh it has an issue detecting my sound card b/c im through xp remote desktop Oct 28 20:03:20 has anyone already implemented a SeekBarPreference before I go an do it myself? Oct 28 20:10:45 Hah! One installable .apk file containing native code: http://plausible.org/andy/NativeAPK-debug.apk Install and run (the java side is just a clone of HelloActivity) and then check your logcat for interesting stuff. It just hits libc and libcutils functions right now, mostly exploring the process environment. I need to write some docs, then I'll have source code available too. Oct 28 20:11:11 I think the Mandelbrot app on Market has native code Oct 28 20:11:30 Didn't say no one had done it before, just that I hadn't. And no one here seems to have gotten that far either. Oct 28 20:11:43 not trying :) Oct 28 20:13:13 that's cool, yeah mandelbrot has native stuff Oct 28 20:13:29 any word on killing processes and services? Oct 28 20:14:51 The Mandelbrot author had a head start. :-) Oct 28 20:15:02 hehe Oct 28 20:22:40 So is that largely G1-specific? Oct 28 20:23:16 Bah. Checked the mandelbrot source. Pure CPU code there, no library integration. I win. Except, that is, for having an actual application to use it. :) Oct 28 20:23:38 this may sound dumb, but I can't find where to set alarms on the G1 Oct 28 20:23:55 herriojr: Alarm Clock Oct 28 20:23:59 omg Oct 28 20:24:06 I need to slap myself Oct 28 20:24:13 I was going to say check the users manual. Oct 28 20:24:14 lol Oct 28 20:24:18 and I don't even have a G1 :P Oct 28 20:25:33 I guess I got used to it being in settings on other phones Oct 28 20:25:54 Yeah, I'm that way too Oct 28 20:26:30 On my iPod Touch, every time I mean to go to the alarm (in the Clock app), I automatically tap the Settings app by mistake first Oct 28 20:26:44 As per my Windows Mobile conditioning... Oct 28 20:27:09 hey could someone help me? im trying to install five-alpha Oct 28 20:27:14 i have the server installed Oct 28 20:27:20 i have the sdk installed Oct 28 20:27:27 but i need to install the client on the phone Oct 28 20:28:12 http://pastebin.ca/1238965 Oct 28 20:28:35 i have the prereqs Oct 28 20:29:00 but i need guidance from steps 1 on Oct 28 20:31:20 whats a pumtucky leftover flappy? Oct 28 20:37:49 nothin eh? Oct 28 20:43:09 we need a guitar tuning app Oct 28 20:43:12 or guitar toolkit Oct 28 20:43:53 all will come in due time Oct 28 20:44:08 we need a proper shell Oct 28 20:44:55 backup/restore app. or just root and i'll do it myself with tar. Oct 28 20:47:23 d0net2: a guitar tuner / metronome app would be cool Oct 28 20:48:33 a rootkit would be beautiful Oct 28 20:48:38 and an irc client Oct 28 20:49:29 * smr is finally past the loading xml assets BS and writing *real* code Oct 28 20:50:44 smr what are you writing? Oct 28 20:52:52 A game Oct 28 20:53:14 Using opengl ES Oct 28 20:53:26 oh Oct 28 20:53:39 why not write an irc client? =) Oct 28 20:53:54 theres 2 being worked on Oct 28 20:54:03 and you can use bitchx or irssi in connectbot Oct 28 20:54:10 it seams to drain mad battery though Oct 28 20:54:32 lol a local irc client lmao Oct 28 20:54:42 not ssh i Oct 28 20:54:51 yea theres 2 being worked on Oct 28 20:54:54 androidchat and ircell Oct 28 20:55:04 nice Oct 28 20:56:35 no one will buy an IRC client! Oct 28 20:56:44 Or few will. But lost of people buy games Oct 28 20:58:41 i don't buy Oct 28 20:58:58 yoooo steal! Oct 28 20:59:12 i don't steal either :) Oct 28 20:59:18 i do Oct 28 20:59:22 D : Oct 28 20:59:23 it'd be nice if the platform did wifi powersaving too Oct 28 20:59:45 you code yourself! Oct 28 20:59:47 Disconnect: using wifi at all _is_ power saving ;) Oct 28 21:00:35 you are all so lucky this is a virtual room... otherwise i'd probably walk out of here with at /least/ one G1.. and someone of you missing one :p Oct 28 21:00:43 yah but i've got devices with similar battery (n800) and much larger base power use that can go 16 hours on wifi in a reasonable power-save mode without ever dropping association or losing packets. Oct 28 21:01:18 Disconnect: well, Android powers off wi-fi some number of seconds after the screen goes off Oct 28 21:01:25 the cellular radio, however, never automatically powers off Oct 28 21:01:51 eldenz: using Free Software is neither buying nor stealing. Oct 28 21:01:59 which hurts more - reassociating every 5 mins at full power just to check email (and maybe every 3 minutes if its out of sync between gmail, email and twidroid for example) or throttling down to a 1-second beacon (or less) and just hanging out on wifi the whole time? chip is off in both cases, but its a -real- fast ping/pong in powersave mode ("got packets?" "no") vs the big new-association mess Oct 28 21:02:30 thats why ya use push? Oct 28 21:02:42 BruteSource: push still requires a connection somewhere. Oct 28 21:02:43 disconect n800 has a mcuh lower power CPU, no gps, no edge/gprs/3g, and a screen that's not nearly as bright Oct 28 21:02:45 ah right, didn't think about that Oct 28 21:03:29 er well I'm not sure on the power, but it's much slower anyways Oct 28 21:03:35 ya but you dont need to reconnect over and over Oct 28 21:03:42 spikebike: screen is -way- brighter actually, at least on mine. and gps off, wifi off the g1 does pretty well against it. wifi on - low traffic, lower than the n800 even (since i'm not ssh'd into it mucking around) and it dies faster than a baby in a blender Oct 28 21:04:02 BruteSource: ..how do you think it 'pushes'? its a tcp connection over edge/3g/wifi.. Oct 28 21:04:06 have you run your g1 down to zero yet? Oct 28 21:04:24 its slower because its older. what, 3 years now? at least 2. Oct 28 21:04:24 Disconnect: all push goes over the cellular radio Oct 28 21:04:41 what seems to be is that it connects gtalk and gtalk gets "tickled" when new google data is available Oct 28 21:04:49 which wakes up the radio to use a different connection to do the heavy lifting Oct 28 21:04:52 so it'll use wifi to download changes Oct 28 21:05:00 but the cellular radio to receive notifications of changes Oct 28 21:05:01 jasta: so if i go into a basement with solid wifi and no gsm i get no email? suckage. Oct 28 21:05:08 lol tickle Oct 28 21:05:09 Disconnect: you get no push e-mail, yes. Oct 28 21:05:12 (well, ok, "no email without polling") Oct 28 21:05:15 * waldo_ is back (gone 01:09:45) Oct 28 21:05:19 BruteSource: it's literally called a tickle, look at adb logcat. Oct 28 21:05:30 Disconnect: you can just open gmail to get email :) Oct 28 21:05:34 Disconnect: unless there's a non-push method of automatic checking set up Oct 28 21:05:35 i believe you Oct 28 21:05:39 In return, your battery lasts longer. Oct 28 21:05:41 just a funny word Oct 28 21:05:52 * waldo_ is away: I'm.. busy. Oct 28 21:05:53 My phone's not ticklish. Oct 28 21:06:00 like jiggle or smerp Oct 28 21:06:25 fadden: hey i talked to the guy that wrote the Email app Oct 28 21:06:36 either way.. a wifi association, dhcp and connection establishment takes what, 10-15 seconds at full power? you -can't- claim thats lower power than waking up for a few ms every couple of seconds... Oct 28 21:06:48 he's sponsoring my redesign of the Email internals tos upport IMAP IDLE and other sophisticated features Oct 28 21:06:48 * jbq would love to see "real" server-initiated push available... but not in a NAT IPv4 world. Oct 28 21:07:00 Cool. Oct 28 21:07:17 jbq: completely agree. but also, on a cellular network that would be some damn fancy switching to allow. Oct 28 21:07:41 jbq: each device would need a unique ip address, roughly for the life of the phone Oct 28 21:07:48 or at least some way to use DNS to get it. Oct 28 21:07:54 (involving DNS would be even more trouble!) Oct 28 21:08:07 and when you port to a new carrier, your server would need some way to know that this all is different now Oct 28 21:08:11 is vedeo phone available over 3g? Oct 28 21:08:13 FWIW, is looking at what it takes to recompile the Email app (or any other app) in a way that allows to use it on a device side-by-side with the original one. Oct 28 21:08:22 video Oct 28 21:08:26 jbq: i already wrote a script Oct 28 21:08:37 yesss password safe hits the marketplace Oct 28 21:08:45 i wrote a perl script that swaps package namespaces arbitrarily to allow you to load system apps with a new name Oct 28 21:08:46 I'm trying to see if I can reduce it to a one-liner. Oct 28 21:08:47 thank you! Oct 28 21:08:57 BruteSource: Video phone doesn't seem like it would be useful on the G1, the camera is on the back, and the screen is on the front. Oct 28 21:08:59 jbq: how? Oct 28 21:09:17 Lenolium: carry one of those mirrored sprint phones to use as .. well.. a mirror. Oct 28 21:09:38 my script translates the whole package namespace because i was under the impression the AndroidManifest wasn't sophisticated enough to pretend to be one package space to android, but then use reflection against another package space Oct 28 21:09:53 nor should it be :) Oct 28 21:09:54 wasnt specific to g1 Oct 28 21:10:51 it *might* be possible to do it from just the manifest. It seems like the manifest's package name doesn't actually need to match the source files' package names. Oct 28 21:11:03 jbq: when doing push, am i correct in assuming that the AlarmManager is the only way to keep the connection alive? Oct 28 21:11:36 jbq: really? i thought the exact opposite. it looked to me like the manifest describes the package space then runtime uses reflection to get at the classes with that package space Oct 28 21:11:53 thats hwy you do things like say activity name=".suffix.Foo" Oct 28 21:12:14 jasta: actuall you can simply rename the package name in the manifest and leave the Java files alone Oct 28 21:12:22 and then use the f ully qualified package name for activities Oct 28 21:12:27 argh Oct 28 21:12:28 jbq beat me Oct 28 21:12:30 the key here is that you can say android:name="com.android.email.foo.bar" with an absolute class name regardless of the manifest's package. Oct 28 21:12:34 * romainguy_ needs to learn the logs :) Oct 28 21:12:41 well yeah i figured that would be true Oct 28 21:12:47 but thats not desirable for my purposes Oct 28 21:13:11 jbq: don't forget about any string literal in code referring to the app's package name (in manifest terms) will also need to be changed too Oct 28 21:13:15 i'm not just trying to load it onto the phone, i'm trying to maintain a clean diff :) Oct 28 21:13:48 and the R file is apparently generated in the package defined by the manifest Oct 28 21:14:04 romainguy_: also, what about setClassName("foo", "package.foo")? Oct 28 21:14:10 that will fire intents against the original package Oct 28 21:14:31 Email uses Strings instead of TheClass.class Oct 28 21:14:57 hmm, well, my script doesnt have to deal with any particulars of the app being converted Oct 28 21:16:19 all mine does is just basically a mass translate of all java, aidl, and XML files. Oct 28 21:16:29 yes Oct 28 21:16:35 I was just wondering out loud Oct 28 21:16:45 if Email does this, it should use TheClass.class instead Oct 28 21:16:45 that requires to move the files around, right? Oct 28 21:16:51 which is of course fallable in its own terrible way, but still more general. Oct 28 21:16:55 romainguy_: i know for a fact that it does ;) Oct 28 21:17:06 then fix this while you're at it :) Oct 28 21:17:28 jbq: well, a single mv of for example com/android/email com/android/whatever Oct 28 21:17:58 i.setClassName("com.android.email", "com.android.email.service.MailService"); Oct 28 21:18:01 ;) Oct 28 21:18:11 romainguy_: i'm encouraged after talking to Jason about some of these issues Oct 28 21:18:21 he admits that his design isn't right but he just didnt know that at the time Oct 28 21:18:33 so he seems to be behind all of my proposed changes Oct 28 21:18:47 "the design isn't right but I didn't know it at the time" hey, that's MY excuse! Oct 28 21:18:54 ugh what horrible weather Oct 28 21:19:11 back on track, I was looking for way to avoid moving files around, but now I think it's probably not such a big deal. Oct 28 21:19:28 well im almost done install kubuntu Oct 28 21:19:36 +ing Oct 28 21:20:31 figured kubuntu would ease me back into a nix interface than ubuntu's osx feel. Oct 28 21:20:32 jbq: the problem is that it's not general enough to fool all apps Oct 28 21:20:36 * smr is happy because my 3D model loader is finally coming along Oct 28 21:20:50 or even most apps, really Oct 28 21:20:55 * andyross wonders if he should tell DJTachyon that intrepid is due for release in about 36 hours... Oct 28 21:21:02 doh Oct 28 21:21:06 :P Oct 28 21:21:30 hmmm Oct 28 21:21:32 jasta: I think it'd be valuable if there could be a way that works for all apps that come with the platform, so that people could at least use the same process to build and test their app changes on a device. The simpler the better. Oct 28 21:21:48 jbq: ok, then commit my script :P Oct 28 21:22:30 andy, wait .. intrepid is an off the shelf appliance? Oct 28 21:22:52 I'm sure that someone would want to rewrite it in python first. Since I don't real perl or write python, that "someone" isn't going to be me. Oct 28 21:22:54 Intrepid Ibex is Ubuntu 8.10 Oct 28 21:23:07 oh right .. Oct 28 21:23:20 hmm is kubuntu going to be updated immediately with it? Oct 28 21:23:30 jbq: of course, because google is allergic to perl Oct 28 21:23:37 oh looks like it Oct 28 21:23:42 somehow i missed the giant banner :P Oct 28 21:24:13 hmmm .. maybe i should install the release candidate then Oct 28 21:24:19 jasta: I think of it more as an immunity than an allergy: we effectively defend ourselvse against infection. ;) Oct 28 21:24:32 romainguy_: My patch for Animation had to permit zero duration animations in the end. There are legitimate reasons for the duration to be zero. Oct 28 21:24:34 oh brother Oct 28 21:24:49 your python rewrite of my perl script will be ugly and less correct anyway :) Oct 28 21:24:50 uglier* Oct 28 21:25:04 * jasta snaps his fingers Oct 28 21:25:23 * pawalls chuckles.. Oct 28 21:26:23 did I just hear that Intrepid is due in 36 hours ? Oct 28 21:26:29 * jasta ponders whether pawalls has converted to the dark side Oct 28 21:26:40 tomgibara: yeah, initialization I bet? Oct 28 21:27:19 hey have you guys tried Minefield yet? Oct 28 21:27:21 jasta, I favor practicality. Sometimes (however rarely) Perl is the better choice. Oct 28 21:27:43 intrepid? Oct 28 21:27:57 romainguy_: yep, that and the restrictDuration() method Oct 28 21:28:17 pawalls: I feel the opposite: you *can* write tight python, but usually end up in a mess of weird libraries. Perl scripts can often do more with fewer dependencies. Oct 28 21:28:20 jasta, Though I increasingly find Perl to be a pain in the ass the more I work in Python and have powerful language syntax like "in" Oct 28 21:28:41 tomgibara: line 611 in your patch, there's an extra 4 spaces indent Oct 28 21:29:06 romainguy_: I copied that from the original file Oct 28 21:29:15 you added and indent Oct 28 21:29:16 -d Oct 28 21:29:22 or you used tabs Oct 28 21:29:25 which is bad :) Oct 28 21:29:31 andyross, Clearly it depends on what you're doing. If you think re is a "weird" library, then I suppose I can see why you'd continue to use Perl ;-) Oct 28 21:29:41 I actually think there's a better way to do this Oct 28 21:29:44 switch to pm Oct 28 21:30:37 * jasta bites his tongue about the tab comment Oct 28 21:30:39 Python is far from perfect. But I find it's a joy to code in more often than not. Oct 28 21:30:55 4 space tabs ftw :P Oct 28 21:31:21 wait, tabs are evil? Oct 28 21:31:21 jasta: it's bad in our source tree Oct 28 21:31:25 jasta, They're called style guidelines.. no one agrees on them, so you might as well just settle on some and get over it :-P Oct 28 21:31:28 I find every time I'm in python, I'm constantly looking at docs. It's a similar problem to Java or C++, the environment just doesn't fit in one's brain. Perl and C don't have that problem. Oct 28 21:31:28 if you like them, good for you Oct 28 21:31:32 but not in our tree Oct 28 21:31:45 pawalls: did you really just say that to me? :) Oct 28 21:31:55 so, is there a reason we can't override the search from the main menu ( Intent { action=android.intent.action.MAIN categories={android.intent.category.LAUNCHER} flags=0x10200000 comp={com.android.contacts/com.android.contacts.DialtactsActivity} } Oct 28 21:31:57 ) Oct 28 21:32:03 jasta, Feh! Oct 28 21:32:04 pawalls: you don't really remember me, do you? :) Oct 28 21:32:32 jasta, If I recall correctly, you think small tab widths are retarded? Oct 28 21:32:39 i used to spend hours hand formatting patches and work contributed by others. often, you. :) Oct 28 21:32:54 jasta, :-P Oct 28 21:32:55 wooo you got served Oct 28 21:33:09 actually i've relaxed that attitude though Oct 28 21:33:14 and my code style is not even like it was then Oct 28 21:33:26 jasta, Cut me some slack, I was like 12. Oct 28 21:33:33 corporate environments i still agree with format nazis, but open source projects can get as spaghetti as they want for all i care :) Oct 28 21:34:04 alright .. time to install kubuntu 8.10 RC on my VM instead :p Oct 28 21:34:21 * pawalls snickers. Oct 28 21:34:21 pawalls: we should go out drinking again some time ;) Oct 28 21:34:46 andyross, I don't suppose you know how to quickly check if an item is in an array in Perl off the top of your head? You can't *really* be saying 'grep' is intuitive :-P Oct 28 21:34:59 jasta, I couldn't agree more. Oct 28 21:35:04 dont even get me started on military or medical standards guys Oct 28 21:35:19 herriojr: When you say override search, what are you looking to do? Oct 28 21:35:24 pawalls, huh? grep isn't intuitive? Oct 28 21:35:38 ericrw, I'm referring to the Perl function. Oct 28 21:35:43 ericrw, When working w/ arrays. Oct 28 21:35:49 so, when I start typing something in while at the home screen, I want it to bring up my app instead of the phonebook Oct 28 21:36:15 pawalls, even still... ? :) Oct 28 21:36:19 pawalls: not sure when i'll be in the bay are again tho. do you snowboard at all? maybe we could go to tahoewith some fools ;) Oct 28 21:36:21 stadlero: but the intent thrown specifies a certain component/activity, so it can't be overridden Oct 28 21:36:30 end up spending 1/2 the year on documentation, code comments, style, code restriction standards, unit testing, and brand/statement coverage Oct 28 21:36:47 s/brand/branch Oct 28 21:37:17 it's not about the intents, in this case - the launcher app is hardwired to present two kinds of search only, contacts (from typing) and web search (via the widget or via menu-search) Oct 28 21:37:24 ericrw, You're telling me that 'grep {$_ eq "whatever"} @array;' is intuitive? Oct 28 21:37:44 It's certainly wordy if nothing else. Oct 28 21:37:47 pawalls: grep certainly is intuitive: "grep /MYSTRING/ @list;" will do it if the elements are strings. Or write a block to test for reference equality, etc... But note that "in" is a dangerous operator, and algorithmically slow. Unless you know your data really well, you really want that to be a hash lookup. Oct 28 21:38:40 but if the intent could be overridden, any application could catch the intent and process it instead of the dialer Oct 28 21:38:44 But that kind of argument is a straw man anyway. You could easily "prove" that python is a disaster because of how much code it requires to parse text files relative to perl, and be equally wrong. Oct 28 21:39:10 this would allow any application to catch the presses Oct 28 21:39:31 The test for me isn't the number of tokens, it's the mental effort required to get those tokens out of my head and into the editor. Perl just wins, sorry. And I've been working with python on a semi-regular basis for over a decade now. Oct 28 21:39:32 pawalls, and yes, I think that is intuitive, but not as intuitive as a simple grep /regex/ @list Oct 28 21:39:32 andyross, I'm not trying to "prove" that Perl is better or worse than Python. I'm simply relaying that I find "in" to be indispensable from a convenience perspective. Oct 28 21:41:35 andyross, I'm not a Python fanboy. I use Perl when appropriate (when I need a way to Practically Extract data and Report on it using a Language suited for such a task.) Oct 28 21:41:56 pawalls: *poke*, do you snowboard? :) Oct 28 21:42:27 andyross, But there are many things I miss when I'm using Perl after getting used to a lot of the syntactic sugar in Python (such as generators, classmethods, etc) Oct 28 21:42:43 jasta, I have once and it was a lot of fun. Oct 28 21:43:10 I was sore for about 2 weeks after, but I'd definitely like to do it again. Oct 28 21:43:52 I have a feeling I'd suck a bit less at skiing though, since I'm more accustomed to inline skates. Oct 28 21:44:08 pizza, french fries? Oct 28 21:46:25 I actually pasted the wrong intent Oct 28 21:46:38 but the correct one still has the same issue Oct 28 21:46:48 freenode is quite the rollercoaster today ^.^ Oct 28 21:46:54 woo Oct 28 21:48:14 pawalls: maybe we should hit tahoe then :) Oct 28 21:48:20 thats the most likely reason i'd make it down to your area Oct 28 21:48:23 and fred would be down too Oct 28 21:49:32 umdk1d3: yea, not so much the markets IRL. Oct 28 21:51:59 pawalls: we had a cabin up there last winter. that was so f'n sweet Oct 28 21:53:54 argh the new iGoogle homepage is driving me mad, mostly that hyperlinks don't work in the GMail panel Oct 28 21:56:05 I wonder if any network printing apps will be forthcoming Oct 28 21:57:05 languish: like? Oct 28 21:57:09 DJTachyon, have you pressed and held your finger on the hyperlinks? Oct 28 21:57:32 michaelnovakjr, an app to connect to wifi network printers, to print documents off the microsd Oct 28 21:57:42 oh cool Oct 28 21:57:47 :D Oct 28 21:57:52 so the intent I'm complaining about is: Intent { action=com.android.contacts.action.FILTER_CONTACTS flags=0x10000000 comp={com.android.contacts.DialtactsContactsEntryActivity} } Oct 28 21:58:39 also, for password wallet style apps, it would be handy to have a function to print out the password list (after a proper user authentication of course) Oct 28 21:58:56 or print daily tasks lists to hand to other people Oct 28 21:58:58 ..etc etc Oct 28 21:59:11 languish: the hyperlinks don't even show up Oct 28 21:59:20 DJTachyon ahh, odd Oct 28 21:59:41 this is in firefox im talking about Oct 28 21:59:53 ooohh Oct 28 22:00:38 i guess pressing and holding the link would be rather difficult Oct 28 22:01:24 any themes apps coming? Oct 28 22:01:37 laz most certainly Oct 28 22:02:37 http://www.djtachyon.com/pub/Broken_iGoogle_GMail_Links.jpg Oct 28 22:02:56 i tried Firefox Minefield today at work .. holy god that browser is fast Oct 28 22:03:02 can you reflash g1's yet? Oct 28 22:03:09 no Oct 28 22:03:18 brb Oct 28 22:03:23 aww man that would be the day!!1 Oct 28 22:04:07 wait, DJTachyon, are you the one that put up the android logo clothing? Oct 28 22:04:24 has anyone installed five? Oct 28 22:24:29 arrgh...g1 wifi is no bueno. Oct 28 22:25:05 nono, es MUY bueno! Oct 28 22:25:25 ;P you must be three feet from your AP. Oct 28 22:25:41 * marcone makes no guarantee that was actually a valid spanish phrase Oct 28 22:26:10 i was 1/4 mile away from a days inn and i was getting signal Oct 28 22:26:49 perhaps i have a manufacturing defect....I can go to the other side of my house. Oct 28 22:26:54 can't* Oct 28 22:27:30 mine is bad too Oct 28 22:27:45 i just dont use wifi. 3g is great :) Oct 28 22:27:55 my G1 picks up random people's open WiFi when I walk around the neighborhood Oct 28 22:27:57 no 3G in Tulsa yet. Oct 28 22:28:15 maybe with RC29 wifi will be better. Oct 28 22:28:32 .window 5 Oct 28 22:28:35 oops Oct 28 22:32:09 ooh im in videoz ^.^ Oct 28 22:32:29 really? Oct 28 22:32:58 hes in lots of em Oct 28 22:33:06 including the g1 launch Oct 28 22:33:15 show me one Oct 28 22:33:19 jeffrey's the man :) Oct 28 22:40:21 family force 5 Oct 28 22:40:38 does android automatically update applications from Market? Oct 28 22:40:45 Laz_: =D Oct 28 22:40:51 am i missing something about documentation for marketplace apps? or is it dependent on the developer including something in the app itself? Oct 28 22:42:05 I noticed some applications that are at the bottom of the "sort by date" list go back to the top because the version incremented. For those that I already have installed, I don't see any option to update, just Open and Uninstall. so I was wondering how does android market handle new builds of applications? Oct 28 22:42:21 bonks, apps don't auto update from the market yet. Oct 28 22:42:40 you would have to uninstall the old version, and then download and install the new one Oct 28 22:43:02 hmm thats unfortunate Oct 28 22:43:05 i wish devs would stop updating their apps Oct 28 22:43:05 sometime in the future, devs will put auto updating in to their own apps, and the market likely will handle it too Oct 28 22:43:50 well, the store should allow us to do update checks, and if there is an update, download the new one Oct 28 22:44:04 some apps, when open, doesnt even say what it's current version is =/ Oct 28 22:44:15 unless im not looking in the right place? Oct 28 22:44:25 yeah, it's up to them to put in there Oct 28 22:44:51 but shouldnt I be able to view details of an app and see its version Oct 28 22:45:31 if they want you to, yeah Oct 28 22:45:39 they just aren't following good programming practices Oct 28 22:45:53 android doesn't enforce programming practices Oct 28 22:46:07 ls Oct 28 22:46:09 ls Oct 28 22:46:14 oops Oct 28 22:46:16 isn't there a version number in the settings > applications Oct 28 22:46:17 ? Oct 28 22:46:25 wastrel no, im looking now Oct 28 22:47:01 but there is a version number in the description in market Oct 28 22:48:01 the apps just keeps rolling into market...5 ways to check the weather. and 3 flashlights. Oct 28 22:48:19 the flashlight came in handy yesterday :| Oct 28 22:48:21 yea lol. couple of todo's too Oct 28 22:48:39 I had the G1 in my pocket, went to hit the head... and the lightbulb in the bathroom blew out Oct 28 22:48:43 pulled out the G1, hit the flashlight app Oct 28 22:48:46 worked like a charm Oct 28 22:49:01 Real life testimony! Oct 28 22:49:15 my flashlight=google.com Oct 28 22:49:55 my bathroom's like a faraday cage Oct 28 22:50:19 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 28 22:50:28 jcanfield_: are you keeping track of the tip calculators too? Oct 28 22:50:33 someone needs to comeup with a movie showtime app Oct 28 22:50:42 wastrel, oh forgot about those. Oct 28 22:51:00 there was an app I used to use on pocketpc for movie showtimes and locations Oct 28 22:51:01 hrm Oct 28 22:51:21 i havent found a site that provides xml feeds for showtimes yet Oct 28 22:51:31 well fandango is one but you have to license it Oct 28 22:51:43 i think the app parsed info off imdb Oct 28 22:51:57 well thats different. showtimes are dynamic information Oct 28 22:52:16 i mean imdb's movie showtime listings Oct 28 22:52:21 which are updated, not static Oct 28 22:52:39 ah, i'll have to take a look at that when i get home Oct 28 22:54:37 how do i access the android file system from my pc? Oct 28 22:55:51 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:05:31) Oct 28 22:56:33 languish: you don't necessarily have to uninstall an app in order to install a new version. If the package names and signatures match then you can just install the updated app and it will replace the old one. Unfortunately, folks can't or don't keep thos things the same and then the install of the updated app will fail. Oct 28 23:11:21 there is no way to browse teh market w/o a G1 right? Oct 28 23:12:04 there are 3rd party sites Oct 28 23:12:21 http://www.androidapps.com/ Oct 28 23:12:32 all those are on the market Oct 28 23:12:49 IM+ just got added recently, glad i never paid $20 for that on windows mobile Oct 28 23:12:50 thanks Oct 28 23:13:46 they are def not all up there though Oct 28 23:13:53 good 50 apps or so Oct 28 23:14:07 its growing fast Oct 28 23:14:51 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 28 23:14:57 hey san Oct 28 23:15:29 hey Oct 28 23:15:53 hows life Oct 28 23:16:04 its good. on vacation. and you? Oct 28 23:16:40 im doing good Oct 28 23:16:44 wow sweet .. god Kubuntu 8.10 RC running in VMWare :) Oct 28 23:16:51 s/god/got Oct 28 23:16:59 besides not having money for cell bill Oct 28 23:18:13 SanMehat: how's the honeymoon? :) Oct 28 23:18:26 ...how was the wedding? :) Oct 28 23:18:48 jasta: its on friday Oct 28 23:18:53 :) Oct 28 23:18:56 nice one Oct 28 23:20:28 hmm how do you change the screen resolution in KDE4? Oct 28 23:20:41 its still xorg, right? Oct 28 23:20:50 anyone who's interested can check out the file browser i wrote.... http://androidnerds.com Oct 28 23:21:04 ooh! /me clix Oct 28 23:21:18 O_O Oct 28 23:21:21 SanMehat: /me is happy for you. Oct 28 23:21:35 ctrl alt + and - i thought Oct 28 23:21:44 yeah i just tried that Oct 28 23:22:01 michaelnovakjr: it offers the PICK intent for mime=*/* yes? Oct 28 23:22:04 im running Kubuntu 8.10 RC if that makes a difference Oct 28 23:22:15 yes PICK for any type of file Oct 28 23:22:38 very cool, will try integrating it soon ;) Oct 28 23:22:38 i'm writing a quick doc on the app now Oct 28 23:22:39 maybe your only configured for one res in the xorg config Oct 28 23:22:59 but im running it in VMware and CTRL+ALT is the I/O switch comand Oct 28 23:23:01 :P Oct 28 23:23:49 aw Oct 28 23:24:07 then there must be a way to do it through the gui Oct 28 23:24:29 michaelnovakjr: is there a source dump somewhere? Oct 28 23:24:53 whats your host machine? Oct 28 23:24:59 yea, there's the git repo, I'm cleaning up the source now that the application works Oct 28 23:25:00 * jt436 is happy, just found a clipping solution that matches J2ME! Oct 28 23:25:17 File Managers=2 Oct 28 23:25:28 Good FileManagers=1 :) Oct 28 23:25:38 michaelnovakjr: do you have android:configChanges="keyboardHidden|orientation" on your browse activity? Oct 28 23:25:40 i'm bias Oct 28 23:25:48 nope Oct 28 23:25:50 should i? Oct 28 23:26:00 it /really/ helps speed up keyboard in/out Oct 28 23:26:05 otherwise it reloads the entire activity Oct 28 23:26:08 i'll add that in Oct 28 23:26:24 still some stuff i want to clean up in it Oct 28 23:26:27 lol 18 more and we will have reached a viable linux distro. Oct 28 23:26:58 michaelnovakjr: also, does tapping on a file try launching a VIEW intent for it? Oct 28 23:27:03 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:12:12) Oct 28 23:27:09 BruteSource: Ah .. I think the monitor settings can be forced in VMWare, so ill try that. Oct 28 23:27:12 umdk1d3: not yet... i was looking into that earlier Oct 28 23:27:20 it'll be added Oct 28 23:27:32 whats your host system? Oct 28 23:27:39 me? Oct 28 23:27:48 michaelnovakjr: also would be awesome to have filesize floating right ;) lol too many ideas Oct 28 23:27:54 :) Oct 28 23:28:10 i've got the tracker for ideas too.... its definitely going to get improvements Oct 28 23:28:46 michaelnovakjr: eek, might want to override the "back" keyboard button Oct 28 23:28:54 to mean "up dir" Oct 28 23:28:59 not sure if thats possible Oct 28 23:28:59 brutesource: im running it native in VMware Workstation Oct 28 23:29:18 on my 30% OC Q6600 w/ 4GB Dominator Memory Oct 28 23:29:21 where do yo work? Oct 28 23:29:25 umdk1d3: i was thinking about it, i have the parent directory item at the top of the list Oct 28 23:29:35 michaelnovakjr, nice work...looks neeto. Oct 28 23:29:38 also, might want to reset the selected index to 0 when entering subfolder Oct 28 23:29:47 who me? Oct 28 23:29:51 umdk1d3: yea, that's on my list :) Oct 28 23:30:00 michaelnovakjr: true, but im loving rolling throguh it with the trackball, and i instictively hit the back button to go up a folder Oct 28 23:30:17 umdk1d3: i can restructure it to do that Oct 28 23:30:18 ya most people dont have a vmware workstation in there basement lol Oct 28 23:30:31 its only $180 Oct 28 23:30:58 im making $500 on a VJ gig this weekend ... I work in aerospace if you must know :P Oct 28 23:31:02 wow Oct 28 23:31:40 markf_, yeah I know we "should" be able to just install over an app, but I've seen enough complaints in various forums about people having to dig up an old version, install it, then uninstall it, just so they can install the new version properly. Oct 28 23:31:41 what? Oct 28 23:31:48 So I advise people to uninstall the old app first Oct 28 23:32:28 has anyone run the emulator built entirely from the source release? Oct 28 23:32:29 bah forcing the screen res didnt work Oct 28 23:32:31 under linux Oct 28 23:33:10 foobar``: "yes" Oct 28 23:33:27 oui languish =) Oct 28 23:33:28 gdsx, does the internet work in it for you? Oct 28 23:34:03 foobar``: I believe DNS is known to be broken (or, at least, was at some point). I'm not sure if that's still the case Oct 28 23:34:12 ah Oct 28 23:34:21 is there a bug listed somewhere? Oct 28 23:34:23 'lo Brute Oct 28 23:35:06 foobar``: no idea, sorry Oct 28 23:35:20 foobar``: it'd be enough to check if you can get to places using only the IP address Oct 28 23:35:24 yeah Oct 28 23:35:27 i just tried it Oct 28 23:35:28 you're right Oct 28 23:35:49 well google ip tries to redirect to m?hl=en&gl=us Oct 28 23:35:56 but I assume it must have connected to the IP to know that Oct 28 23:36:00 bbl, heading home Oct 28 23:37:03 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 28 23:37:16 what would be the best class to use to access a sqlite db Oct 28 23:38:16 wow drake and josh is supposed to be for kids, but its funny Oct 28 23:38:23 I agree Oct 28 23:38:54 glad im ot alone on that Oct 28 23:38:59 but anyways what would u think is the best class to use if u just want to read from a sqlite database Oct 28 23:40:06 mlester, whats your nick mean? just curious :] Oct 28 23:40:10 mlester: look at the docs for SQLiteDatabase Oct 28 23:40:52 its my first letter of my first name followed by my last name Oct 28 23:40:53 molester Oct 28 23:42:32 :p Oct 28 23:42:36 mlester: try this tutorial, http://www.anddev.org/working_with_the_sqlite-database_-_cursors-t319.html Oct 28 23:43:16 I tried that one but thats from a old tutorial Oct 28 23:43:26 but I am trying myDB = SQLiteDatabase.openDatabase("/sdcard/bbe.db",null,SQLiteDatabase.OPEN_READONLY); Oct 28 23:43:34 hey lanquish Oct 28 23:43:51 and its throws an exception that table android_metadata doesnt exist Oct 28 23:43:55 hey neekers. about to run man, heading out to eat Oct 28 23:44:01 bbl :) Oct 28 23:44:06 ttyl Oct 28 23:44:44 lol Oct 28 23:45:01 i don't think they intended to put build-system.html in the tree Oct 28 23:45:10 "The build system will need to be able to build tools on Linux (definitely Goobuntu and maybe Grhat), MacOS, and to some degree on Windows." Oct 28 23:46:06 goobuntu? Oct 28 23:46:25 google's internal version of ubuntu that you're not supposed to know about Oct 28 23:46:43 foobar``: Eh, it's been mentioned before. Oct 28 23:47:00 true Oct 28 23:47:02 foobar``: more accurately that no one has a copy of :-P Oct 28 23:47:19 unix_infidel: Untrue. Many Google employees do. I did over the summer, as an intern. (It works great!) Oct 28 23:47:51 ttuttle: they made you delete it? Oct 28 23:48:03 unix_infidel: No, they just didn't let me bring the desktop home after I left :-P Oct 28 23:48:09 unix_infidel: It was a work machine ;-) Oct 28 23:48:57 heh, that makes more sense, CDs floating around with the image are much less containable :-P Oct 28 23:49:06 unix_infidel: Oh yeah, I've never seen a CD with it. Oct 28 23:50:21 been almost a year since I ran linux on anything other than a server or virtual machine. Oct 28 23:50:34 should probably run it natively here pretty soon for some upcoming projects. Oct 28 23:50:39 what about your phone? Oct 28 23:50:52 foobar``: I decided against getting a G1. Oct 28 23:51:44 what do you have an iphone? Oct 28 23:52:24 unix_infidel: why? Oct 28 23:52:59 neekers: because it's a terrible device compared to the iPhone, in my opinion. Oct 28 23:53:14 I want to replace the android boot screen, how do i do that? Oct 28 23:53:22 i really like my g1 so far Oct 28 23:53:45 neekers: they're pretty nice. Oct 28 23:53:57 version 1 of the iphone wasn't all that great... Oct 28 23:54:42 neekers: nope, but version one of the iPhone still has much better hardware than the G1. Oct 28 23:54:49 the keyboard rocks in my opinion and i actuall like the look of it Oct 28 23:55:35 its not how much or how small, its how you use it :p Oct 28 23:55:48 I want the iphone clock on my G1 Oct 28 23:56:03 has anyone tried iSkoot? is it any good? Oct 28 23:56:04 that analog POS was gone in like f minutes. Oct 28 23:56:20 i was actually planning on getting an iphone later in addition to the G1 so that i can code up all my apps on the iphone as well, but i'm going to focus on the g1 for now Oct 28 23:58:42 neekers: If you can justify the expense I say go for it. Oct 29 00:02:37 how do u write to the log with an andoid app Oct 29 00:03:08 android.util.Log Oct 29 00:03:36 Log("EJDk") Oct 29 00:04:13 well, i can justify the expense in the hopes of making money off the code i write... Oct 29 00:04:13 thanks :) Oct 29 00:04:42 neekers: Money? Oct 29 00:04:54 neekers: You can't, like, OWN code, man! You can't CHARGE for it! Oct 29 00:05:00 neekers: Code wants to be FREEEEEE, dude! Oct 29 00:05:03 yes, i actually code for money... :o) Oct 29 00:05:04 neekers: (j/k) Oct 29 00:05:23 neekers: ;-) Oct 29 00:05:30 neekers: Whatcha coding, anyway? Oct 29 00:05:33 i have written some pretty popular open source though... Oct 29 00:05:37 neekers: Oh? Oct 29 00:05:42 yes Oct 29 00:06:39 http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=198122 Oct 29 00:06:50 it's been downloaded 50,000 times Oct 29 00:07:02 i'm writing an android client for it right now Oct 29 00:10:03 i'll open source the android client too Oct 29 00:12:43 neekers, have you gotten the maps app to work against the open-source base? Oct 29 00:13:46 foobar: do you mean the android maps app against my open source? Oct 29 00:14:24 i mean the android maps app against the opensource base OS Oct 29 00:14:35 as opposed to the base OS in the last SDK release Oct 29 00:15:22 well, i have the android maps app working on the g1 if that's what you mean Oct 29 00:15:23 does the binary maps.apk want to be in the same processgroup as the core os? Oct 29 00:15:43 and because the signing key on the newly built core os is different, it decides to not let maps run Oct 29 00:15:48 just speculation on my part Oct 29 00:15:54 umdk1d3, maybe that's it Oct 29 00:16:05 im not too familair with the signing process Oct 29 00:16:14 where can i find more info on it/what the restrictions are? Oct 29 00:16:15 hey why is when I try and open a db I its looks for andorid_metadata table Oct 29 00:16:23 can you unsign an apk and resign it with a new key? Oct 29 00:16:36 i think its just the signatures in the manifest dir inside the apjk Oct 29 00:16:38 anyone know of a good beginner's demo of making an android app, like a bouncing balls thing Oct 29 00:16:45 i had quite a challenge getting the maps app working properly on the G1, check out this thread that i started on the google group Oct 29 00:16:52 might be easy enough to remove the original google sigs on their maps.apk and resign it with your core os key Oct 29 00:16:59 one sec, i'll get the url Oct 29 00:17:22 how hard would it be to mod the battery icon to show the percentage instead? Oct 29 00:17:26 i have a good understanding of how to sign apps and use the release maps key on the G1 Oct 29 00:17:42 Im not sure if I have a core OS key Oct 29 00:17:48 unless it automatically generates one Oct 29 00:18:13 neekers, wait, isn't maps included on the g1? Oct 29 00:19:03 yes, google maps is included on the g1, but if you want to write your own map app, you have to sign the app with a maps api key Oct 29 00:19:10 and it's a little tricky!!! Oct 29 00:19:16 ah ok Oct 29 00:19:23 check out this threead: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/6212a6e988f1f7f9/ca8e95191531ad8f?hl=en#ca8e95191531ad8f Oct 29 00:19:43 you have to sign the app with the same key that the maps API key is assigned to, they're not the same key are they? Oct 29 00:19:46 neekers: thats referring to using the google maps library in a mapview though right? Oct 29 00:19:47 it took me hours to figure out what i was doing wrong Oct 29 00:20:18 ohhhhh maybe the core google maps apk uses an api key internally that only works with their signature :/ Oct 29 00:20:38 trigatch4: ^.^ Oct 29 00:20:39 no, you have to create your own keys Oct 29 00:20:48 on the G1 Oct 29 00:20:48 umdk1d3 ? Oct 29 00:20:58 mr. phandroid? Oct 29 00:21:03 yeah whats up? Oct 29 00:21:19 lol didnt realize you came around these parts :) Oct 29 00:21:22 ha Oct 29 00:21:35 you idle here often? Oct 29 00:21:37 i've been popping in consistently since about 9 months ago or so Oct 29 00:21:47 yeah i idle here a decent amount Oct 29 00:21:48 oh cool, i never connected the nick with you Oct 29 00:21:52 yup Oct 29 00:21:56 thats me Oct 29 00:22:04 when I do this: myDB = SQLiteDatabase.openDatabase("/sdcard/bbe.db",null,SQLiteDatabase.OPEN_READONLY); I get this : no such table: android_metadata Oct 29 00:22:06 what should i "connect" with umdk1d3? Oct 29 00:22:14 and how did you connect me while i wasn't here? Oct 29 00:22:15 haha Oct 29 00:22:29 your "name" is in your joinstring Oct 29 00:22:37 ah gotchya Oct 29 00:23:51 so, is that an I don't know? Oct 29 00:26:06 hmm tar is giving me a "short read" error Oct 29 00:26:10 do I need to supply as cursor factory? Oct 29 00:26:50 umdk1d3: for what file? Oct 29 00:28:05 /sys/devices/platform/uevent Oct 29 00:28:57 umdk1d3: err... huh? where'd you get this tarball? Oct 29 00:29:12 I think sysfs falls under "things that you don't really want to tar" Oct 29 00:29:13 are there underlying filesystem APIs exposed that could allow implementing something like NFS or windows file sharing? maybe even mounting over ssh? Oct 29 00:29:21 lol true Oct 29 00:29:37 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:52:33) Oct 29 00:29:48 back :) Oct 29 00:29:55 waldo_: hey; could you turn your away/back script off, please? Oct 29 00:30:12 yeh yeah Oct 29 00:30:14 okay Oct 29 00:30:17 thanks Oct 29 00:30:32 it's off Oct 29 00:30:41 no more "Wheres Waldo" Oct 29 00:30:45 :) Oct 29 00:31:05 so question for the group-- I have a 5v2a GPS car charger w/ups (for one of those Tom Tom things) can I safely use it w/the g1? Oct 29 00:31:21 ups? I meant usb Oct 29 00:31:22 is it possible to open a sqlite database from the sdcard or does android prevent it Oct 29 00:31:53 waldo_: I think USB should always be a 5v connector Oct 29 00:32:01 but don't take my word for it :) Oct 29 00:32:06 im hoping to avoid keeping media files on my actual device, both because i always have a connection of course and there isn't enough room anyway. Oct 29 00:32:48 mlester: should be possible, I've opened them from my /data/data/ folder before...not sure why you shouldn't be able to hit the /sdcard Oct 29 00:33:26 ironfroggy_, A developer on this channel has written a media player for that exact reason. Oct 29 00:33:31 ironfroggy_, google Five Oct 29 00:33:40 zhobbs maybe I'll risk my phone on it :) Oct 29 00:33:58 Has anybody here used the "Service Viewer" application on the Android Market? Oct 29 00:34:02 id love to just mount a remote volume for any app to access, too. but thats great. Oct 29 00:34:09 zhobbs: I think I can but I get this error about not finding andoid_metadata table so I think it needs that to open it Oct 29 00:34:27 trigatch4: yeah Oct 29 00:34:41 zhobbs: tunewiki review tomorrow but i had a few questions Oct 29 00:35:00 ok Oct 29 00:35:00 ironfroggy_, I imagine most apps wont be bad enough that you will need to browse the filesystem. Oct 29 00:35:11 is this the five? http://www.androiddownload.org/download-android-five-alpha-streaming-application/ Oct 29 00:35:30 waldo_: yeah Oct 29 00:35:39 zhobbs: on service viewer, can you explain the technical difference between "Services" and "Task" as far as the OS goes and whether, technically speaking, you could add the functionality to "kill" a service or task? Oct 29 00:35:40 what does it use on the server side to stream? Oct 29 00:36:04 trigatch4: youcan't kill tasks and/or services (or processes) from an app Oct 29 00:36:17 waldo_: there is a custom server that runs on your desktop Oct 29 00:36:43 ah... it would be cool if it could use avahi or something.. :) Oct 29 00:36:48 romainguy_: what is the definition of a "service" and "task" relative to android - excuse my programming ignorance Oct 29 00:36:49 umdk1d3: is this your app? Oct 29 00:36:57 jasta's app waldo Oct 29 00:36:58 waldo_: no lol, thats jasta Oct 29 00:37:01 ah Oct 29 00:37:05 trigatch4: service is basically a background application Oct 29 00:37:05 this Five app isn't available packaged? and it requires its own server? Oct 29 00:37:24 trigatch4: a task is a set of activities from one or more processes Oct 29 00:37:24 ironfroggy_: its still under heavy dev right now Oct 29 00:37:37 trigatch4: an activity is more or less a screen within an application Oct 29 00:37:52 I'm sure there's a doc somewhere describing all this more clearly and more precisely :)) Oct 29 00:38:23 thanks man, much appreciated Oct 29 00:38:39 i do really want to do some dev here, and id probably be easier to contribute to something than go from scratch. Oct 29 00:38:53 trigatch4: http://code.google.com/android/intro/appmodel.html Oct 29 00:38:57 and since this is one of the first things i was after actually having a device in my hands.. Oct 29 00:46:56 man this sqlitedatabase thing is driving me crazy I can't open the db in my app but if I open a shell to the emul and start sqlite3 then I can access that data Oct 29 01:00:24 whew time for another repo sync Oct 29 01:01:01 now that I have my Ubuntu Intrepid VM Up and running :) Oct 29 01:01:17 hi i have intrepid Oct 29 01:01:44 aloo Oct 29 01:02:05 actually I have Kubuntu Intrepid ;) Oct 29 01:02:05 hey im trying to install five Oct 29 01:02:10 i am so close Oct 29 01:02:12 Embedded error: ANDROID-040-001: Could not execute: Command = /bin/sh -c "cd /home/hebs/five-read-only/five-client && aidl -I/home/hebs/five-read-only/five-client/src /home/hebs/five-read-only/five-client/src/org/devtcg/five/service/ICacheService.aidl /home/hebs/five-read-only/five-client/target/generated-sources/org/devtcg/five/service/ICacheService.java", Result = 1 Oct 29 01:02:26 i get that when i do $ mvn -Dmasa.debug=true install Oct 29 01:02:36 put in five and get one back eh? Oct 29 01:02:36 any ideas? Oct 29 01:05:57 lol just found bitpim in the dev app list .. i used that on my Motorola E815 :P Oct 29 01:08:11 heya DannyB Oct 29 01:09:06 man why didn't u guys tell i Just needed to use the NO_LOCALIZED_COLLATORS flagt Oct 29 01:09:49 I was wondering.. I saw the branding page... and it restricts the use of naming apps with a derivation of Android. What how is that going to be handled with so many apps being named "Andthisorthat" and "whateverDroid" ? Oct 29 01:11:09 iono Oct 29 01:12:19 wow i just happened to look at the size of the android repo sync Oct 29 01:12:58 a mere 1.5GB & 70000 files :) Oct 29 01:13:01 grr, i wish connectbot didn't steal the volume keys. Oct 29 01:13:23 what does it use them for? Oct 29 01:13:30 font size Oct 29 01:13:34 cute Oct 29 01:14:02 it's cute, but i irc and listen to music, and i want to be able to change the volume too! Oct 29 01:15:14 submit a patch :] Oct 29 01:16:00 a software volume overlay :D Oct 29 01:16:07 +control Oct 29 01:21:35 well my first make attempt on ubuntu failed Oct 29 01:24:30 hmm.. /bin/bash: prebuilt/linux-x86/toolchain/arm-eabi-4.2.1/bin/arm-eabi-gcc: No such file or directory Oct 29 01:24:36 how can DNS still br broken after a week Oct 29 01:27:14 anybody know where or what that is Oct 29 01:27:19 it's there Oct 29 01:27:24 check Oct 29 01:28:42 thanks .. Oct 29 01:28:56 ? Oct 29 01:29:33 ? Oct 29 01:29:36 the file is there Oct 29 01:29:37 isn't it Oct 29 01:29:41 also: Oct 29 01:29:43 /usr/include/gnu/stubs.h:7:27: error: gnu/stubs-32.h: No such file or directory Oct 29 01:29:44 make: *** [out/host/linux-x86/obj/EXECUTABLES/acp_intermediates/acp.o] Error 1 Oct 29 01:29:51 oh Oct 29 01:30:02 you don't have a 32-bit development env Oct 29 01:30:07 uh oh Oct 29 01:30:08 did you install an AMD64 ubuntu? Oct 29 01:30:14 hehehe nooooooooooooo~ Oct 29 01:30:18 yes. Oct 29 01:30:19 if you're using a VM you should have probably just installed 32bit Oct 29 01:30:27 lol good lord Oct 29 01:30:28 i got it to build on amd64 Oct 29 01:30:30 i can't win today Oct 29 01:30:32 it was a bunch of work though Oct 29 01:30:41 some of the 32-bit dev packages are broken Oct 29 01:30:46 and some symlinks are missing Oct 29 01:30:52 okie dokie guess im off to delete this VM Oct 29 01:31:03 i think you need to manually add symlinks for libX11.so and libz.so Oct 29 01:31:12 in /usr/lib32 Oct 29 01:31:20 but yeah maybe just easier to make a 32-bit vm Oct 29 01:31:28 yeah who knows what else ill run into Oct 29 01:31:42 okay im gonna kill this VM ... Oct 29 01:32:09 bah Oct 29 01:32:09 just install the 32-bit build chain Oct 29 01:32:13 test Oct 29 01:32:15 or that Oct 29 01:32:26 install the 32-bit build chain? Oct 29 01:33:03 how may i go about that then? Oct 29 01:33:54 anechoic, there are soem problems with it Oct 29 01:34:13 just a sec, playing with aptitude on someone else's 64 bit install Oct 29 01:34:18 for some reason it looks for unversioned .so files Oct 29 01:34:18 what problems? Oct 29 01:34:21 hi, I get this when compiling the source with a self cross compiler, any idea: Oct 29 01:34:22 frameworks/base/libs/utils/CallStack.cpp:75: error: '_Unwind_Backtrace' was not declared in this scope Oct 29 01:34:24 even if you install all the correct packages Oct 29 01:34:38 you need to manually add some symlinks Oct 29 01:34:46 here Oct 29 01:34:46 so, not problems with gcc -m32 on Hardy/Intrepid, right? Oct 29 01:34:51 yes Oct 29 01:34:54 on hardy at least Oct 29 01:34:57 install all the packages Oct 29 01:35:02 and try to compile hello world with Oct 29 01:35:05 gcc -m32 -lz hello.c Oct 29 01:35:11 it will fail Oct 29 01:35:19 since it's looking for an unversioned libz.so Oct 29 01:35:29 and the only thing in /lib32 is a libz.so.1 Oct 29 01:35:41 there's a few things like that Oct 29 01:38:59 hey if i got five music to build and work in the emulator Oct 29 01:39:03 how do i get it on my phone? Oct 29 01:39:51 as an apk? Oct 29 01:39:54 $ dpkg -c lib32z1-dev_1%3a1.2.3.3.dfsg-7ubuntu1_amd64.deb Oct 29 01:39:54 -rw-r--r-- root/root 90374 2007-11-15 07:12 ./usr/lib32/libz.a Oct 29 01:39:54 lrwxrwxrwx root/root 0 2007-11-15 07:12 ./usr/lib32/libz.so -> libz.so.1.2.3.3 Oct 29 01:40:09 I don't think you need to add the symlink Oct 29 01:40:23 d0net2: you can always just post the apk on the web and download it with the browser on the phone :) Oct 29 01:40:44 does twidroid really put "twidroid for" in front of everything??? Oct 29 01:41:21 djtachyon Oct 29 01:41:25 yea thats my prolem Oct 29 01:41:26 im newb Oct 29 01:41:34 and this is the first i have REALLY dont anything with android Oct 29 01:41:37 how do i go about making the apk Oct 29 01:42:13 you need to build for release and sign it Oct 29 01:42:35 http://code.google.com/android/devel/sign-publish.html Oct 29 01:43:59 oops sorry got distracted Oct 29 01:44:01 yeah that Oct 29 01:44:04 anechoic, oh, I guess you're right Oct 29 01:44:10 I remember searching for that package Oct 29 01:44:17 oh well Oct 29 01:44:18 meh i have run into too many x64 issues Oct 29 01:44:29 DJTachyon: aptitude is your friend Oct 29 01:44:38 indeed Oct 29 01:44:52 and so is all the other stuff im working on ;) Oct 29 01:45:29 all this stuff is so much higher level than im used to .. i do embedded procedural C for DSPs and HDL Oct 29 01:47:08 apt-get install fftw-dev Oct 29 01:47:12 j/k, :-) Oct 29 01:47:50 woo :P Oct 29 01:48:14 motor control actually but yea Oct 29 01:48:15 gcc-multilib should pull most stuff in when you install it, especially if you go through the "suggests" in aptitude Oct 29 01:48:55 Is there a web site to view all updates to market? Oct 29 01:48:56 no RF? :-( Oct 29 01:49:01 My phone doesn't show latest applications Oct 29 01:49:12 I have to use search to find them Oct 29 01:49:42 AlekseyKorzun: no, you can only see it on the phone for now Oct 29 01:49:49 Just select to show the applications by date Oct 29 01:49:57 you'll see the most recently uploaded at the top Oct 29 01:50:25 or you can scrap the VM like you originally suggested, it might be less headache in the long run Oct 29 01:51:17 or I can dig around on this other 64-bit machine and try the stuff for you, I'm sure its owner won't mind Oct 29 01:52:01 I'll send you a PM with all my packages with 32 in them Oct 29 01:52:03 * anechoic plays with aptitude on mmattice's work machine... Oct 29 01:52:08 nobody fear, i am here Oct 29 01:52:28 ut oh, there goes the neighborhood Oct 29 01:52:31 :| Oct 29 01:52:52 eek Oct 29 01:55:45 hmm this mshare app reminds me. lastnight i wanted to send a file from my g1 directly to my wife's G1, much as you would a song with the zune. I wonder if that functionality is possible with the current android version, and if anyone's working on it already Oct 29 01:56:03 bt? Oct 29 01:56:12 bt or wifi Oct 29 01:56:18 hrm Oct 29 01:56:21 ad hoc wifi? Oct 29 01:56:30 wifi would have to auto establish an ad hoc connection Oct 29 01:56:51 seek out other g1's sharing using the same app with it enabled Oct 29 01:57:41 damn that's a kinky thought.. 69 dhcp Oct 29 01:58:08 let's exchange ip's baby Oct 29 01:58:10 :| Oct 29 01:58:32 'ia32-libs, lib32asound2, lib32gcc1, lib32gomp1, lib32mudflap0, lib32ncurses5, lib32ncurses5-dev, lib32nss-mdns, lib32stdc++6, lib32z1, lib32z1-dev, libdns32, libisc32, mingw32, mingw32-binutils, mingw32-runtime' Oct 29 01:58:41 those are all my packages with 32 in the name Oct 29 01:58:46 so you need those Oct 29 01:59:09 and g++-multilib, gcc-multilib Oct 29 01:59:39 and libc6-dev-i386 Oct 29 02:06:26 hey i found these apks Oct 29 02:06:38 but when i put them on my storage card and try to open them it says file reading not supported Oct 29 02:06:52 d0net2: How are you opening them? Oct 29 02:07:02 clicking them and clicking open Oct 29 02:07:08 d0net2: Where? Oct 29 02:07:16 i put them in my download folder Oct 29 02:07:20 on my sd card Oct 29 02:07:22 d0net2: Are you talking about on the G1? Oct 29 02:07:26 yea Oct 29 02:07:33 d0net2: Oh, the web server needs the .apk MIME type set up properly. Oct 29 02:07:45 explain for a newb Oct 29 02:07:57 d0net2: You can't fix it. Oct 29 02:08:04 awww crap Oct 29 02:08:18 i just spent like 5 hours getting it working in the emu Oct 29 02:14:15 is there any chm or devhelp for android ? Oct 29 02:15:23 ask in here Oct 29 02:15:39 what's chm? Oct 29 02:15:46 android API Document Oct 29 02:16:02 its a special format for MCSE Oct 29 02:16:27 i want chm or devhelp format Oct 29 02:17:12 exman, grab the info off code.google and convert it to .chmhttp://code.google.com/android/documentation.html then Oct 29 02:17:50 thankyou~ Oct 29 02:17:51 likely you can use a crawler that converts to chm Oct 29 02:18:13 just remember to set the threads low Oct 29 02:18:23 and limit the transfer rate Oct 29 02:24:41 gnight all Oct 29 02:25:05 o/ Oct 29 02:25:24 * languish goes to see if there'll be a hamachi app for g1 Oct 29 02:30:59 . Oct 29 02:32:29 . Oct 29 02:34:12 chm is a file format for windows help files Oct 29 02:34:54 its just compressed html Oct 29 02:35:05 actually i want devhelp format. :-) (for ubuntu) Oct 29 02:35:35 hi everyone Oct 29 02:35:39 hi everyone Oct 29 02:36:47 i Oct 29 02:36:52 hi* Oct 29 02:36:58 ih Oct 29 02:37:31 How do I simply get a GPS location for testing? Oct 29 02:37:56 I m getting error for the following: Double latPoint = myManager.getLastKnownLocation("gps").getLatitude(); Oct 29 02:38:23 what is the error Oct 29 02:40:08 GeoPoint p = new GeoPoint((int) (47.47 * 1E6),(int) (-122.01 * 1E6)); Oct 29 02:40:12 try that Oct 29 02:40:20 D/LocationManager( 230): Constructor: service = android.location.ILocationManager$Stub$Proxy@433734f0 Oct 29 02:40:20 D/AndroidRuntime( 230): Shutting down VM Oct 29 02:40:20 W/dalvikvm( 230): threadid=3: thread exiting with uncaught exception (group=0x40010e28) Oct 29 02:40:20 E/AndroidRuntime( 230): Uncaught handler: thread main exiting due to uncaught exception Oct 29 02:40:20 E/AndroidRuntime( 230): java.lang.NullPointerException Oct 29 02:40:29 wow. Use a pastebin Oct 29 02:40:34 Oh sorry Oct 29 02:41:12 disappearedng: did you see my post? Oct 29 02:41:15 umdk1d3 is famous http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/blogspot/hsDu/~3/435175125/stories-behind-apps.html Oct 29 02:41:22 http://pastebin.com/d16191a5a Oct 29 02:43:38 How do I getLatitude on GeoPoint Oct 29 02:43:54 anyone know of screenshots for every layout by chance? Oct 29 02:44:42 Ok I checked the API Oct 29 02:44:59 d03boy: they would not help you much Oct 29 02:45:06 there are not many layouts in the platform Oct 29 02:45:10 and what they do is very simple Oct 29 02:45:47 im just looking for a horizontal list of some sort Oct 29 02:45:54 LinearLayout Oct 29 02:45:57 or Gallery Oct 29 02:46:09 i need it to scroll though Oct 29 02:46:21 can I put buttons in a gallery? Oct 29 02:46:25 anything you want Oct 29 02:46:30 ok i'll try that Oct 29 02:46:54 note that horizontal scrolling list are a bit awkward to use on the G1 Oct 29 02:47:12 the horizontal scrolling gesture is a bit less natural than vertical scrolling Oct 29 02:47:36 romainguy, does it let you 'pull' it? Oct 29 02:47:52 what do you mean? Oct 29 02:48:01 can you scroll by 'flicking' it or whatever Oct 29 02:48:07 can anyone tell him how to find the current GPS Location? I am getting an error for Double latPoint = myManager.getLastKnownLocation("gps").getLatitude(); Oct 29 02:48:29 d03boy: yeah, that's why I'm talking about when I say it's less natural than vertical scrolling Oct 29 02:48:37 d03boy, install the task switcher app to see what it looks like Oct 29 02:48:51 (and how it functions) Oct 29 02:48:58 i dont actually have a g1 Oct 29 02:49:05 look at the apidemos Oct 29 02:49:07 i'll see if I can get it on the emulator Oct 29 02:52:01 umdk1d3, where do you get that pricing info for local stores? seems like that is not in their interest to publish that Oct 29 02:52:28 is there a simple way to close the current application? Oct 29 02:52:33 * gambler learned about stateful drawables Oct 29 02:53:33 any google staffers here? Oct 29 02:53:42 yes Oct 29 02:53:49 google. Oct 29 02:54:15 hey romainguy, so... do you know a "Robin" from Android Operations team at Google? Oct 29 02:55:12 how's the battery life on these beasts? Oct 29 02:55:18 romainguy: on AndroidForums.com we talked about having some Android T-Shirts made and sticking them on CafePress... just because members want the shirts and there isn't really an easier way to go about it Oct 29 02:55:49 she basically said we shouldn't... and I can understand why Oct 29 02:56:02 at the top of the android market app, there is a scrolling thing. Is that a gallery? Oct 29 02:56:09 but wondering if theres any way to find a coupla "freebies" to give away in a contest or something? Oct 29 02:56:34 trigatch4: umm... couldn't be that google owns the copyright to android... Oct 29 02:56:36 d03boy, depends,what you are doing with it.. I'm barely making it through the day on a battery. Oct 29 02:56:39 trigatch4: you should contact the advocates, look for Jason Chen or Dan Morrill (morrilldl) Oct 29 02:56:50 jcanfield_, do you talk on it much? Oct 29 02:57:09 average about 30 minutes talking. Oct 29 02:57:22 not surprising Oct 29 02:57:30 where do i go to file a bug for the contacts app? Oct 29 02:57:37 i can talk on my razr for about 20 seconds and it's dead these days Oct 29 02:57:40 code.google.com/p/android/issues Oct 29 02:57:47 wifi seems to really seems to suck the juice. Oct 29 02:57:47 thanks romainguy Oct 29 02:58:02 it also depends a lot on the apps you use Oct 29 02:58:04 already logged :[ Oct 29 02:58:06 i am too slow! Oct 29 02:58:26 turning off 3g helps alot Oct 29 02:59:04 anyone know if the market app has the gallery at the top? is that a gallery? Oct 29 02:59:07 d03boy, and playing media is scary. I ripped a movie and not sure it will play a 2 hour movie on one charge. Oct 29 02:59:11 thats exactly what I need Oct 29 02:59:23 d03boy: that's a gallery Oct 29 02:59:30 d03boy that sounds like the market application Oct 29 02:59:42 jcanfield_, eh, oh well. phones arent made for movies :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 29 02:59:57 2008