**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 31 02:59:57 2008 Oct 31 03:08:31 hello? Oct 31 03:13:40 system and data i think; not sure if initrd is in there or not... Oct 31 03:17:42 sorry, my wi-fi disconnected me, what did you say? Oct 31 03:18:32 just that system and data are the two main folders; but it needs the initial ramdisk too (which contains init, etc) Oct 31 03:19:35 Are there some things that just plain don't work on edge? Oct 31 03:19:58 I was trying to use GPS Tracker, but it kept saying service error Oct 31 03:20:12 and when I tried to send an image over Maverick, it couldn't upload the thing to picassa Oct 31 03:20:21 but web browsing and IM'ing worked fine Oct 31 03:21:51 RyeBrye, which GPS tracker were you using? Oct 31 03:24:30 cbeust_: http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=313969 Oct 31 03:24:43 RyeBrye: ? Oct 31 03:26:43 wow Oct 31 03:27:16 hey, what's pgup/pgdn in connectbot? Oct 31 03:28:21 umdk1d3, are you around Oct 31 03:28:51 ttuttle: probably the same as in any scrollview/listview Oct 31 03:28:55 space/shift-space Oct 31 03:29:16 romainguy: i mean in the terminal screen. it's not a listview. Oct 31 03:30:34 is it a scrollview? Oct 31 03:30:57 maybe, but space types space! Oct 31 03:31:21 ah yes Oct 31 03:31:22 duh :) Oct 31 03:31:25 as does shift-space Oct 31 03:31:27 well too bad then :) Oct 31 03:31:33 :-( Oct 31 03:31:35 the zombie game is pretty fun Oct 31 03:31:53 also, i want to *send* a pgup/pgdn key, not scroll the scrollback. Oct 31 03:32:24 ttuttle, left screen is pgup/dn Oct 31 03:32:29 right screen is buffer Oct 31 03:32:52 slide your finger u/d the screen Oct 31 03:33:38 wow Oct 31 03:33:42 thanks Oct 31 03:33:45 :) Oct 31 03:34:00 so any word on when the music player will support .pls internet streams? Oct 31 03:34:02 yeahm they did an awesome job with that Oct 31 03:34:26 tripps, "the" music player? there's a few of them already Oct 31 03:34:42 languish, the one that comes with the g1 Oct 31 03:35:14 dunno. maybe try out some of the others Oct 31 03:36:25 languish, i tried a couple of others but no dice Oct 31 03:37:01 also, is there a specific way to end an application? Oct 31 03:37:08 How is the music quality with a good pair of headphone? I've not received my adapter yet. If it's as good as Walkman then I'd buy a 8GB card, else 1GB is enough for me Oct 31 03:37:11 no, there isn't Oct 31 03:37:51 i can't access the market right now - anyone else getting the same message? "server error has occurred" Oct 31 03:37:55 Aragon, the headphones that come with the g1 are kinda low volume. not good in noisy spaces for music/videos, though they work fine for phone calls Oct 31 03:38:25 garbage night. /me throws away his G1 box. Oct 31 03:38:30 ... guess i'll keep it Oct 31 03:38:32 for example, they're not loud enough for me to enjoy encoded vids eveb with a 40db + on the encode Oct 31 03:38:34 languish: no I was asking WITH a good pair of headphone Oct 31 03:38:45 ah with a good pair it should be juuuust fine Oct 31 03:39:14 some people have even modded the g1 headphones and soldered in a better pair Oct 31 03:39:22 and say the quality is great Oct 31 03:39:31 hmm. Hopefully I'll get the adapter next week. Oct 31 03:39:44 you can live with the G1 pair for a week Oct 31 03:39:45 :) Oct 31 03:39:55 they're not terrible, they're just not terribly loud Oct 31 03:40:01 still need a decent integrated task management app for this thing Oct 31 03:40:18 Yeah.. I'm not much into portable music. I have a Zen. Never use it though. lol Oct 31 03:40:18 neekers - still around? I was active in another window Oct 31 03:40:24 so you guys want a task manager and to be root Oct 31 03:40:31 RyeBrye: yes Oct 31 03:40:31 * romainguy thinks you want Windows Mobile Oct 31 03:40:42 romainguy - if I have root I don't need a task manager Oct 31 03:40:44 :) Oct 31 03:40:54 i want a task management app/todo list/organizer. i want a palm pilot :] Oct 31 03:41:01 Aragon: same, was never into mp3 players. Oct 31 03:41:15 RyeBrye: which gps tracker are you using? Oct 31 03:41:30 Rye: need gui for noobs Oct 31 03:41:32 :P Oct 31 03:41:32 neekers - the one called simply "GPS Tracker" Oct 31 03:41:40 neekers - It tracks on that instamapper site Oct 31 03:41:54 do you have a url? Oct 31 03:42:05 romainguy, taskmanager is pointless on a phone Oct 31 03:42:06 what's the need Oct 31 03:42:15 i think your right about winmo :) Oct 31 03:42:19 Any progress on that IRC app? Oct 31 03:42:48 any word on when there will be a pdf reader? Oct 31 03:43:07 neekers - I just downloaded it off of the market Oct 31 03:43:16 neekers - instamapper.com is the site that it dumps to though Oct 31 03:43:31 thanks Oct 31 03:45:33 i'm not talking about task manager like windows, i mean a todo/organizer thing Oct 31 03:45:35 :p Oct 31 03:45:53 wastrel: :) Oct 31 03:46:01 ah Oct 31 03:46:05 good point Oct 31 03:46:11 that would make more sense Oct 31 03:46:31 so is the multitouch gestures, etc., not on the g1 due to IP issues or something else? Oct 31 03:46:41 and shame on you windows lovers for even thinking that Oct 31 03:46:44 you need a task manager? download pterminal then type ps and you'll see all your processes Oct 31 03:46:49 you just can't kill most of them Oct 31 03:46:51 was the furthest thing from my mind. Oct 31 03:46:52 haha Oct 31 03:46:56 languish, lol Oct 31 03:47:08 :D Oct 31 03:49:19 wastrel: yeah, sorry, my mind got soiled by all these root-geeks here :)) Oct 31 03:50:01 lol Oct 31 03:50:42 If I've downloaded the source on OS X, I'm sure it's just as easy to copy the directory to a linux machine and rebuild the source, yeah? Oct 31 03:51:36 Visitor15 - depends. If you downloaded the source on a non-case sensitive filesystem, then probably not Oct 31 03:52:13 It was non-case sensitive... So I guess I'm out of luck? Oct 31 03:52:30 AFAIK yeah, you have to download again because it will clobber things Oct 31 03:52:38 but you can just make a disk image on your mac if you want to do it there Oct 31 03:52:50 Mmm.. Lovely. Oct 31 03:52:54 it's a lot easier to make a case-senstive disk image to work with than it is to reformat your whole filesystem Oct 31 03:53:04 that's what we do at the office Oct 31 03:53:10 many of us use Mac OS X Oct 31 03:53:14 we just slap the build on a disk image Oct 31 03:53:51 I'll try that. That was my plan B. I was just trying to not have to rely on my laptop for it. Oct 31 03:53:53 romainguy - do you use journaled disk images? I would think that the journaling option for the fs of a disk image would be a waste if you have it on a journaled file system already Oct 31 03:54:04 we use journaled images yes Oct 31 03:54:34 but for the open source version of Android I just formatted one of my external hard drive with a case sensitive fs Oct 31 03:54:35 Is there a benefit to that? woudln't the journalling on the main disk you have the disk image file already on handle journaling any writes to the disk image? Oct 31 03:54:42 no idea :) Oct 31 03:54:46 it works, so I don't care :) Oct 31 03:54:53 Yeah, I built mine journaled Oct 31 03:55:02 and then after the fact thought about it more Oct 31 03:55:19 unbelievable how G1 can mess up the email thing so bad Oct 31 03:55:27 lots of users complaining about mail.. Oct 31 03:55:30 ? Oct 31 03:55:45 I'm not complaining about email, and I'm a user. Oct 31 03:55:49 * RyeBrye must be dumb Oct 31 03:55:58 ah my battery is dead now.. Oct 31 03:56:11 Aragon - did it take a while to finally kill it? Oct 31 03:56:15 not complaining either Oct 31 03:56:16 my gmail email app works great on the g1 Oct 31 03:56:33 I'm going to try to drain mine to 0% and hope that it will calibrate itself better Oct 31 03:56:34 muthu: Gmail or Email? Oct 31 03:56:37 my imap e-mail app ont he g1 to a gmail addy, not so good Oct 31 03:56:41 RyeBrye: yeah. Oct 31 03:56:50 cbeust_: gmail Oct 31 03:56:51 what was the voltage when it died? Oct 31 03:56:57 muthu: Can you be more specific? Oct 31 03:57:12 mine is at 3694 mV and it thinks it's at 22% - which I disagree with Oct 31 03:57:37 cbeust_: example, the tree view for imap folders not supported Oct 31 03:57:40 RyeBrye: pretty much same @ 2%.. Oct 31 03:58:07 muthu: you said Gmail, Gmail doesn't support IMAP Oct 31 03:58:24 Aragon - did you drain it dead to recalibrate it, or just for fun> Oct 31 03:59:11 I did 1day. I wanted to do it again and tomorrow I'll check how long it lasts with everything ON. Oct 31 03:59:15 cbeust_: really? hmm.. thought Gmail offered IMap Oct 31 03:59:31 Email does, not Gmail Oct 31 03:59:49 Yes Gmail offer IMAP Oct 31 03:59:53 Gmail does IMAP Oct 31 03:59:55 and it has for a while Oct 31 04:00:12 It's much nicer through IMAP if you check it in multiple places Oct 31 04:00:17 We are talking about Gmail on Android Oct 31 04:00:29 oh Oct 31 04:00:37 And yes, I work on Gmail, I know what it supports :) Oct 31 04:00:50 No, I know what it supports. I use it. Oct 31 04:00:52 ;) Oct 31 04:00:57 :p Oct 31 04:01:24 Anyone received update? Oct 31 04:01:34 I'm not holding my breath Oct 31 04:01:46 im STILL at rc19 Oct 31 04:01:48 * elad shrugs Oct 31 04:02:30 When people ask you "which do you like better, the G1 or the iPhone" what is your answer? Oct 31 04:02:37 because I get asked that every time I tell someone about the G1 Oct 31 04:02:42 ahhaha Oct 31 04:03:02 What do you expect us to answer? Oct 31 04:03:03 RyeBrye: it's a valid question. Oct 31 04:03:16 I know, it's a valid question... I have my answer... Just curious what other people say :) Oct 31 04:03:18 you'r essentially a proxy for whether they should enter into a 2 year agreement. Oct 31 04:03:21 It's not about the phone. For me, it's the Platform Oct 31 04:03:50 my answer is that the iPhone has some cooler applications for it right now, and the games like Super Monkey Ball are pretty nuts - but that after using the G1 for just a day there are things that I have on the G1 that would frustrate me to no end on the iPhone that it lacks Oct 31 04:03:56 Aragon: there were linux phones well before the G1. Oct 31 04:04:09 RyeBrye: like. Oct 31 04:04:17 like hardware keyboard, notifications, copy and paste to name a few Oct 31 04:04:22 and does it do Voice dialing? Oct 31 04:04:27 Really.. One or two from Motorola? Oct 31 04:04:43 I can't remember - but the voice recognition of the Android is pretty slick and should definitely be sold more as a feature Oct 31 04:05:25 23:04 < Aragon> Really.. One or two from Motorola? Oct 31 04:05:28 because to say "Voice Dialing" makes me think it's just that standard piece of shit every cell phone has done for 5 years (well, every cell phone but the iPhone IIRC) - where you 'record' the voice, and then when you voice dial it matches what you say against the recording Oct 31 04:06:17 The fact that it can't understand me when I tell it to dial numbers would make it great for meeting new people too! :) (it's pretty good when I say names - but numbers I guess I mumble or osmething because I swear it just spits out a random number generator to the screen) Oct 31 04:07:24 The other thing i like about the G1 is that there are goign to be some amazing applications written for it that are impossible on the iphone. Just the little white pages lookup wouldn't be possible on the iPhone from my understanding of the rules over there Oct 31 04:08:32 It's all about apps.. :) Oct 31 04:08:41 Yes, it is Oct 31 04:08:46 repo sync reports the following - info: A new version of repo is available Oct 31 04:08:55 anyone know how to get the new version of repo? Oct 31 04:09:18 repo sink - info: your sink has been taken back by the bank. Oct 31 04:09:37 hehe Oct 31 04:09:41 no idea Oct 31 04:09:44 you get the new repo automatically. You just need to copy the repo script to wherever it is in your path Oct 31 04:09:57 It prints out a line like: Oct 31 04:10:12 mikez5: automatically where? Oct 31 04:10:18 cp /home/me/android/.repo/repo/repo /home/me/bin/repo Oct 31 04:10:40 so just execute that "cp" line Oct 31 04:10:57 I was thinking of writing a really simple / stupid application that would let you see the pervasiveness of android phones in your area - and in other areas... people would just give it access to the coarse location and it would basically build a heatmap of the phones of people who cared to use it... Oct 31 04:10:58 oh its in bin Oct 31 04:11:08 but it would also tell you how cool you are based on how many other people around you have one Oct 31 04:11:20 everything is automatic, except updating the repo wrapper in your path Oct 31 04:11:37 i.e. 1 phone in 30 mile radius = you are obviously cool... but 100 phones in 1 mile radius = you are such a sellout ;) Oct 31 04:11:58 mikez5: where do we download the new repo from? Oct 31 04:12:08 Apparently I'm "The G Man" in My office :D Oct 31 04:13:03 ok, got it.. using curl Oct 31 04:13:17 http://gizmodo.com/347736/voice-dial-iphone-voice-dialing-app-costs-money-but-works-well Ha ha ha Oct 31 04:13:30 even the iPhone uses that shitty "record a sample" voice dialing... and it's not even in the OS for the phone Oct 31 04:13:45 so... yeah - voice dialing is another one of those features I'd put on the list of things that would annoy the hell out of me should I get on an iphone Oct 31 04:14:39 "The software works with all languages. It does not depend on a dictionary or vocabulary, but it stores your speech samples and links them to contacts." Oct 31 04:14:44 ha, now i see what mikez5 meant Oct 31 04:14:48 what that SHOULD read is"The software works equally crappy with all languages. It does not depend on a dictionary or vocabulary, but it stores your speech samples and links them to contacts. Oct 31 04:15:11 $33!!! you gotta be kidding me.. Oct 31 04:15:14 Yeah Oct 31 04:15:21 I think it's $9.99 now Oct 31 04:15:34 repo is in a git repository, so repo sync gets you the new repo. Oct 31 04:15:54 It lives in your .repo directory Oct 31 04:16:10 There is just one file that you need to manually move when it changes Oct 31 04:16:14 I mean copy Oct 31 04:16:31 mikez5: thx, got it Oct 31 04:16:35 I'm surprised nobody has written a wardriver program yet Oct 31 04:17:01 although maybe they did, and their battery ran out when they backed out of their driveway with wifi and GPS both enabled to test it ;) Oct 31 04:17:04 because it doesn't really matter when you have a 3G connection? Oct 31 04:17:20 I'm in EDGE land :( Oct 31 04:17:23 :( Oct 31 04:17:28 On edge it's not too bad Oct 31 04:17:37 but edge can't do both data and voice at the same time, right? Oct 31 04:17:38 depends what you do with it Oct 31 04:17:42 yes Oct 31 04:17:49 it can? Oct 31 04:17:52 I used EDGE on the G1 until a few weeks ago Oct 31 04:17:54 no you can't Oct 31 04:17:55 ok Oct 31 04:18:43 I hope they will plan their next rollout areas based on where the nerds are at Oct 31 04:19:08 Like "Hmm... we sold X G1's to this area with no 3G - so obviously that's a good area for us to go put 3G in" Oct 31 04:19:20 I don't get 3g in my house or office. Oct 31 04:19:30 although they might just say "Hmm... those people will buy our phones even with a slow network, so we can skip over them and go here:" Oct 31 04:19:52 I thought they didn't seel it in non 3G areas Oct 31 04:19:55 sell Oct 31 04:20:24 Yeah, but I used the tracking service one guy had on his and hunted him down and killed him in a pagan ritual - then claimed the phone as my own Oct 31 04:20:38 ... or I was GOING to do that Oct 31 04:20:41 mikez5: actually, it doesn't happen auto Oct 31 04:20:48 but they sell them online to people in non 3G areas Oct 31 04:20:48 you need to manually curl it Oct 31 04:20:56 RyeBrye: that remark was in response to your "although they might just say "Hmm... those people will buy our phones even with a slow network, so we can skip over them and go here:"" Oct 31 04:20:57 :) Oct 31 04:21:02 ah ok, online sales Oct 31 04:21:35 Although there is some speculation that some of the 550 walmarts selling them for $148 will be in some non-3G areas Oct 31 04:21:45 that'd be cool Oct 31 04:23:37 I haven't missed a call yet on the G1 - what's the default behavior? Oct 31 04:23:46 muthu: you only need to curl the repo script the first time Oct 31 04:23:47 what do you mean? Oct 31 04:24:04 and repo self updates Oct 31 04:24:11 mikez5: just checked.. Oct 31 04:24:14 it didn't auto get Oct 31 04:24:16 One feature I loved on my P990 was that if you missed a call or sent a call to voicemail it would automatically have a dialog box saying "would you like to schedule a reminder to call them back?" Oct 31 04:24:27 now i manually curled it and copyd to bin Oct 31 04:24:34 the P990 had some amazing little convenience features - it was like your own personal secretary was in there doing crap for you Oct 31 04:24:37 RyeBrye: ah, there's no such thing Oct 31 04:24:43 that's Sony's right? Oct 31 04:24:45 I could write one though, right? Oct 31 04:24:46 Then after you repo init, there is a copy in .repo/repo/ Oct 31 04:24:47 yeah, Sony's Oct 31 04:24:54 my previous phone was a Sony too, the w810i Oct 31 04:24:58 it was awesome Oct 31 04:25:03 full of cool little features like this Oct 31 04:25:05 mikez5: yes Oct 31 04:25:11 but that doesn't seem to get updated Oct 31 04:25:12 the other big thing that I've mentioned in here before was Business Card OCR -> contacts list Oct 31 04:25:17 But you need to manually update the copy in your path. Oct 31 04:25:30 RyeBrye: ooh OCR Oct 31 04:25:37 you can do QR codes only for now on G1 Oct 31 04:25:41 Right, it doesn't try to update the copy in your path, in case you put it in /usr/local or something like that Oct 31 04:25:45 I'd be sold if SE comes up with Android phone next year Oct 31 04:26:00 mikez5: checked the file stamps.. it was the same Oct 31 04:26:03 repo self updates when you sync Oct 31 04:26:50 oh, is it a problem if i have uncommitted changes Oct 31 04:26:53 romainguy - the ocr worked amazingly well - and it would put all of the stuff it couldn't easily identify a field for into the notes section fo that contact Oct 31 04:27:03 that's sweet Oct 31 04:27:24 There are a few OSS OCR libraries - one of them Google was involved in getting open Oct 31 04:27:45 is your roadmap a wiki ;) Oct 31 04:29:52 romainguy: are you sure repo auto updates? Oct 31 04:30:02 it should Oct 31 04:30:08 ok, it doesn't so far Oct 31 04:30:15 probably because there's no update? Oct 31 04:30:20 hmm Oct 31 04:30:25 it says, new version is available Oct 31 04:30:58 where? Oct 31 04:31:00 who says that? Oct 31 04:31:08 platform]$ repo sync Oct 31 04:31:09 info: A new version of repo is available Oct 31 04:31:09 warn: [repo] commit (or discard) uncommitted changes before sync Oct 31 04:31:19 ah then they removed the auto update Oct 31 04:31:20 It says that in the output from "repo sync" Oct 31 04:31:45 and the new repo still says the same.. Oct 31 04:31:53 looks like a bug Oct 31 04:32:11 And then it told me to execute: Oct 31 04:32:12 cp /home/lockwood/android/.repo/repo/repo /home/lockwood/bin/repo Oct 31 04:32:23 lol Oct 31 04:32:26 yeah, that's a bug Oct 31 04:32:34 it's the path of one of the guys who works on repo Oct 31 04:32:38 to copy the repo script from the git repository in .repo to where I keep it in my path Oct 31 04:33:03 mikez5 == lockwood, so not a bug :-) Oct 31 04:33:03 may be i should copy it from bin back to repo Oct 31 04:33:11 lol Oct 31 04:33:24 ah lol Oct 31 04:33:26 doh Oct 31 04:33:31 ahah Oct 31 04:33:39 someone already had "lockwood" on freenode Oct 31 04:34:08 mikez5: your repo sync is fine? Oct 31 04:34:15 my repo sync auto updated repo Oct 31 04:34:17 "info: Restarting repo with latest version" Oct 31 04:34:24 hmm Oct 31 04:34:44 the only thing i can think is.. i'm in a default branch Oct 31 04:34:49 with some local changes Oct 31 04:35:04 may be that's the problem Oct 31 04:35:28 shit, this is where repo branch would be greatly useful Oct 31 04:35:37 to quickly change over to another branch Oct 31 04:35:42 use git for this Oct 31 04:35:47 argghghg Oct 31 04:35:56 there's like 25 projects Oct 31 04:36:40 I did a repo sync a couple hours ago and it seemed OK. Oct 31 04:37:06 Unfortunately I haven't been able to move all my work to the outside repositories yet. Oct 31 04:37:35 ok.. am going to ignore the new repo for now Oct 31 04:38:02 romainguy__: i'm looking at the alertdialog bug, that i reported Oct 31 04:38:18 which one? Oct 31 04:38:27 where the checkboxe states are not rendered correctly when backed from cursor Oct 31 04:38:54 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=955&q=alertdialog&colspec=ID%20Type%20Version%20Security%20Status%20Owner%20Summary Oct 31 04:39:59 can you reproduce the bug outside of an AlertDialog? Oct 31 04:40:17 haven't tried outside alertdialog Oct 31 04:40:24 then try outside of alertdialog Oct 31 04:40:29 why? Oct 31 04:40:35 to narrow down where the bug is Oct 31 04:40:40 oh ok Oct 31 04:40:47 it can be ListView, the Adapter or AlertDialog.Builder Oct 31 04:40:53 correct Oct 31 04:41:01 ok, will dig deep today Oct 31 04:41:03 you might as well try to eliminate ListView or AlertDialog before doing serious debugging Oct 31 04:41:15 it should be the adapters Oct 31 04:41:35 this lightcycle game is fun Oct 31 04:41:37 my guess is when the adapter reuses the view, it messes up the state Oct 31 04:41:39 trin clones ftw Oct 31 04:41:42 *tron Oct 31 04:43:41 I think iSafe should have a feature where you can have it adjust the scales based on you answering some questions like: "Are you a male? Do you weigh more than 90 lbs? Do you own a gun? Is it loaded? Are you carrying it right now? Is that legal?..." Oct 31 04:43:49 so how is it so far? Oct 31 04:43:54 g1 gentlemen Oct 31 04:43:54 tell me Oct 31 04:44:12 If you like T-mobile, don't hesitate - just go buy it Oct 31 04:44:22 they aren't going to get a better phone for a while, so why wait? Oct 31 04:44:31 was thinking about this idea Oct 31 04:44:31 I like it Oct 31 04:44:40 where the phone makes an emergency call automatically Oct 31 04:45:02 I'm not sure if 911 operators would like that kind of feature Oct 31 04:45:10 yeah.. that's the tricky part Oct 31 04:45:20 in case of accident, auto dial Oct 31 04:45:21 you could have it send a message to a trusted friend Oct 31 04:45:37 right Oct 31 04:46:30 detecting emergency scenarios is the tough part Oct 31 04:46:56 Yeah... you'd probably need access to the airbags or something Oct 31 04:47:04 in which case you're probably talking about OnStar Oct 31 04:47:18 right Oct 31 04:47:20 something like that Oct 31 04:47:25 would be definitely useful Oct 31 04:47:36 hi does the android work with wifi ? for browsing and for calls? Oct 31 04:47:48 i mean android phone G1 Oct 31 04:47:59 I think it works great Oct 31 04:48:06 I was expecting it to be really rough, but I was pleasantly surprised Oct 31 04:48:25 I find your lack of faith disturbing Oct 31 04:48:38 :) Oct 31 04:48:50 great for calls too? Oct 31 04:48:53 Yeah Oct 31 04:48:53 can anyone help me make a gallery with buttons in it? Oct 31 04:49:16 is it halloween already? Oct 31 04:49:26 d03boy: create a custom adapters Oct 31 04:49:32 (and that sounds like a bad idea :) Oct 31 04:49:44 gallery with buttons dont work well Oct 31 04:49:50 hmm Oct 31 04:50:05 so can i go ahead and order it online? i so want the phone, but no 3G in my area, and teh customer support guy from t-mobile was not sure if it could do regular calls through wifi Oct 31 04:50:10 maybe i'll just do a horizontal linear layout then Oct 31 04:50:22 cbeust_ - All I heard marching up to release day was how things were being gutted - like bluetooth or other stuff... so I was just hoping it would at least work :) Oct 31 04:50:43 cbeust - and I STILL want bluetooth APIs! :P Oct 31 04:51:03 performance, i know someone who has the phone but we dont have 3G. He got some other plan and it works Oct 31 04:51:12 I ahve no 3G Oct 31 04:51:21 No, you can't do calls through wifi yet Oct 31 04:51:30 I ordered mine online Oct 31 04:51:49 If you like T-mobile, and are happy with them and would likely be with them for 2 years anway - then just get it Oct 31 04:51:51 That was my situation Oct 31 04:52:06 I'm on wifi most of the time, but the phone works fine on EDGE Oct 31 04:52:23 the coverage map shows two bars average at my bldg.. and no 3g only EDGE/GPRS Oct 31 04:52:25 the annoying thing about EDGE is that you can't use data and voice at the same time Oct 31 04:52:38 performance - how is AT&T GSM coverage in your area Oct 31 04:53:05 here's a dirty little secret: T-mobile phones and AT&T phones roam on each other's networks - and since you have free roaming on domestic partners its not like it costs you anything Oct 31 04:53:12 The 3G doesn't roam Oct 31 04:53:16 but the normal GSM stuff does jsut fine Oct 31 04:53:18 i dont know:( i am a Tmo customer for 3 years.. the old moto v 360 phone started losing signal. Oct 31 04:54:11 It will have as good a signal as any other tmobile phone you have had Oct 31 04:54:12 likely better Oct 31 04:54:17 actually thats 5 years including the two years of v300! Oct 31 04:55:07 It's really a personal decision that you have to obviously make for yourself - but I'm happy with my G1 Oct 31 04:55:20 It's probably not perfect, but so far I like things about it I didn't think I would Oct 31 04:55:29 like the hardware keyboard is nice - and I normally hate hardware keyboards Oct 31 04:55:38 (on phones that is) Oct 31 04:55:55 i tried it at teh local store, they just had a demo unit.. i like it except for the big obstacle to teh right when typing Oct 31 04:56:12 did they let you hold it out of some kind of tether? Oct 31 04:56:18 yeah Oct 31 04:56:22 I didn't notice that "big obstacle" until you just pointed it out Oct 31 04:56:31 Thanks, jerk Oct 31 04:56:33 ;) Oct 31 04:56:50 but i kept going there to see if they got one in stock, so they brought another unit from inside for me to play :) Oct 31 04:56:53 Even that's not too bad, I guess it depends on how you hold it. Oct 31 04:57:12 You could try holding out until November 3rd to see if a walmart near you gets one Oct 31 04:57:22 they will have them cheaper than T-mobile is selling them for Oct 31 04:57:34 same contract deals -but $148.88 instead of $179 Oct 31 04:57:39 (walmart loves their 8's) Oct 31 04:57:51 what??? they dont have enough to stock their won stores, and now they sell at W ? Oct 31 04:58:07 They don't WANT to stock their stores in non 3G areas Oct 31 04:58:31 I don't know why Oct 31 04:58:45 but they want to create low expectations for using it on EDGE I guess Oct 31 04:59:00 hmm maybe Oct 31 04:59:02 but some walmarts outside of the 3G coverage areas will likely stock them, but I don't know Oct 31 04:59:07 only 550 walmarts will sell them Oct 31 04:59:10 from what I've read Oct 31 04:59:27 The little crap like using the camera to barcode can and comparisson shop is cool Oct 31 04:59:28 i hate buying anything at walmart, but if thats the only place i can get the phone,i'll go Oct 31 04:59:36 You can buy online also Oct 31 04:59:59 i miss buying the phone in person. Oct 31 05:00:03 yeah Oct 31 05:00:05 it sucks buying it online Oct 31 05:00:11 I bought it online without having held one in person Oct 31 05:00:18 I was happy it was smaller than I thought it was going to be Oct 31 05:00:50 its so tempting to just go to the Dark Side/Apple store across and buy the damn i phone in person Oct 31 05:00:53 The main reason I wanted to get one though was because I'm a java developer and the API looked pretty straightforward Oct 31 05:00:56 RyeBrye, same here, not sure what gave the impression of it being larger, maybe all that staring the huge emulator on my screen ? Oct 31 05:01:20 I don't know... I think the other device I've had with a similar form factor was an old Sony Clie NZ90 Oct 31 05:01:24 where it had a screen and buttons below it Oct 31 05:01:28 and that thing was huge Oct 31 05:02:09 I can't really believe I carried that thing around to be honest Oct 31 05:02:32 it wil be a major shift for me, i have only used clam shell phones till now Oct 31 05:02:58 you'll probably want to get some kind of screen protector for it if you aren't used to having phones with screens exposed Oct 31 05:03:01 keys like to eat screens Oct 31 05:03:51 Still have the plastic on mine, but need to get a InvisiShield for it Oct 31 05:03:58 tweakt - me too :) Oct 31 05:04:09 I'm trying to decide if I want to slime the whole phone or just the screen Oct 31 05:04:17 I like the texture of the G1's plastic Oct 31 05:04:26 and I really don't like the feel of those invisishields Oct 31 05:04:32 but on the screen they make sense Oct 31 05:05:12 wont they affect the touch screen performance/ Oct 31 05:05:23 No, it shouldn't Oct 31 05:05:29 the plastic thing on it that it came with doesn't Oct 31 05:05:42 but it can be peeled off easily Oct 31 05:05:45 but don't invisishields have more of a friction to them thatn the plastic screen protector? Oct 31 05:05:47 yeah, I think they can be Oct 31 05:05:56 Think I'm gonna exchange it after couple of months. Sliding mechanism doesn't look solid. Mine already started making noise. Oct 31 05:06:06 uh oh Oct 31 05:06:22 what are the ban words here?;) Oct 31 05:06:25 mine seems ok Oct 31 05:06:26 tether Oct 31 05:06:31 I don't think so Oct 31 05:06:31 tethering perhaps Oct 31 05:06:53 I said brainfuck earlier and didn't get banned, but it was in a legitimate discussion of programming languages Oct 31 05:07:03 lol Oct 31 05:07:09 i started making simple apps , but my killer app idea is to make the key pad act like a mouse trackpad Oct 31 05:07:26 so who's working on a tethering app? surprised it's taken this long Oct 31 05:07:37 is it true that it's "impossible" Oct 31 05:07:38 that way we can do multi touch etc.. i already did the basic logic for that need to implement and iterate Oct 31 05:08:10 mza - not sure. I was wondering if the connectbot could be used to set up a proxy server Oct 31 05:08:27 RyeBrye: your's does not make noise when you press screen? Oct 31 05:08:28 it can be used to open tunnels both remote and local - so if you had a socks proxy on the phone you could easily use that to tether Oct 31 05:08:47 aragon - when I slide it open, or when I push on it when it is open? Oct 31 05:08:59 it makes a clicking noise when I open it Oct 31 05:09:01 Push on it when closed Oct 31 05:09:12 nice Oct 31 05:09:15 I don't hear any noise Oct 31 05:09:25 just tapping of my finger Oct 31 05:09:34 yeah mine creaks Oct 31 05:09:35 how many days you have it? Oct 31 05:09:40 jsut 2 Oct 31 05:09:48 oh. mine a week Oct 31 05:10:01 mine creaks, it's been doing it the whole time Oct 31 05:10:05 annoying but i can live with it Oct 31 05:10:12 there's a solution to the creaking Oct 31 05:10:14 Will t-mobile swap phones out for you if they are being crappy? Oct 31 05:10:17 on one of the forums Oct 31 05:10:30 feels like its gonna fall apart after a month or two Oct 31 05:10:32 i.e. after a few months you go in and say "hey, this phone is being crappy" Oct 31 05:10:45 RyeBrye, if you get insurance... Oct 31 05:10:47 Me thinking the same Oct 31 05:10:55 what insurance? Oct 31 05:11:01 Yeah, the insurance has a $130 deductible for any decent phone though Oct 31 05:11:06 but then, if enough of them fall apart.. class action time Oct 31 05:11:08 or maybe they call it a copay Oct 31 05:11:25 languish: if i dont have insurance? its under 1 yr warranty, right? Oct 31 05:11:37 as far as I know Oct 31 05:11:41 It does have a 1 year warranty right> Oct 31 05:11:45 check your box info Oct 31 05:11:45 so yeah, that should be covered Oct 31 05:11:55 should say so in the manual Oct 31 05:12:01 don't have mine handy Oct 31 05:12:03 I accidently voided the warranty on my p990 because I assumed it was expired and tried to fix it myself but busted a screw in the process Oct 31 05:12:20 yeah shell out 180 bucks and realise if the screen cracks, all you get is a grin Oct 31 05:12:25 now I ALWAYS check the warranty before I take a screw driver out Oct 31 05:13:20 * RyeBrye just turned on flashlight to try to drain his battery faster now Oct 31 05:13:54 that horrible pet thing that runs the vibrate supposedly drains battery pretty good Oct 31 05:13:59 alright folks, ill wait till nov 3 and see if it shows up at local W mart Oct 31 05:14:07 Oh, there is a pet thing? Oct 31 05:14:23 thanks for the conversation.. gnite n good luck Oct 31 05:14:27 performance - you might be able to ask your local walmart if they will be getting them Oct 31 05:15:08 yeah i'll ask. Oct 31 05:15:19 there are two nearby Oct 31 05:15:27 but only one has 3G Oct 31 05:15:38 i mean is in teh 3G area in their map Oct 31 05:15:45 oh, interesting Oct 31 05:16:00 well that one might be most likely to get one Oct 31 05:16:16 yeah, ill call them first thing tomorrow Oct 31 05:16:36 i already wasted some gas going to two different stores Oct 31 05:16:48 when an application gets updated, is there a system in place that notifies people that an app they currently have has an updated version? Oct 31 05:17:04 no Oct 31 05:17:09 today was teh worst, when called at 2:00 pm he said they had them in stock, when went to buy one after work, he was sold out Oct 31 05:17:15 do you guys like to use the xml files for layout or do you prefer to do it in code? Oct 31 05:17:40 xml Oct 31 05:17:47 http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/0,39029453,49299636,00.htm Oct 31 05:17:55 Cnet likes it Oct 31 05:18:04 better separation of view in MVC Oct 31 05:18:55 OK Manual says 1 year warranty :) Oct 31 05:20:49 when do you use an Activity vs View Oct 31 05:21:19 WTF? Kesterl has you just rub some nasy hairball? Oct 31 05:21:20 any word on when other carriers will get android phones? Oct 31 05:21:26 can someone relate these to Swing or something? Oct 31 05:21:33 d03boy: how is your ircell coming up? Oct 31 05:21:49 Aragon, it would be coming up if I knew what I was doing with the View portion of the program, ha Oct 31 05:22:55 Cool.. that hairball program will lock if you rub your finger around nonstop - and then it will sit there doing the vibrate constnatly with the force close dialog open Oct 31 05:23:01 heh, I'm suprised you're not getting a bunch of other devs offering to work with you on it Oct 31 05:23:04 ... that should help drain my battery :) Oct 31 05:23:37 languish, I know... I can do the IRC part no problem. The views is the tricky part for me because I havent had tons of time to read up on it yet Oct 31 05:23:47 nod Oct 31 05:24:23 hows it going languish Oct 31 05:25:10 ahh, your the one doing ircell... ive been reading about that one waiting for a release Oct 31 05:25:24 good to hear its still in development and hasnt been forgotten like lots of apps Oct 31 05:25:32 d03boy: working on an android irc client? Oct 31 05:25:37 yes Oct 31 05:25:40 =D Oct 31 05:25:44 lol Oct 31 05:25:49 lots of ppl are going to like you d03boy Oct 31 05:25:53 /please/ do nick highlighting in notifications ^.^ Oct 31 05:25:55 its been heavily requested Oct 31 05:26:14 also, people will prolly be using it with BNCs mostly i think Oct 31 05:26:19 umdk1d3, comment on ircell.org =P Oct 31 05:26:29 I'd pay for it :p Oct 31 05:26:37 i'd like it to be free Oct 31 05:26:45 :) Oct 31 05:26:47 you'd pay for an IRC client? wow Oct 31 05:26:54 make a free version and a paid version and add something in the paid Oct 31 05:26:58 d03boy: its opensource right =D Oct 31 05:27:02 DCC in the paid version :) Oct 31 05:27:06 umdk1d3, yesh Oct 31 05:27:10 Considering there is none, yes i would Oct 31 05:27:10 the irony of making warezboys pay :) Oct 31 05:27:12 rofl dcc over phone Oct 31 05:27:13 something trivial like changing default colors or something Oct 31 05:27:26 Aragon: just port netcat, voila Oct 31 05:27:33 hey, i used to dcc on my winmo phones Oct 31 05:27:39 (where by "port," I mean "install") Oct 31 05:27:47 Make the dcc version free and if you want to chat in a channel, you have to buy it Oct 31 05:28:05 :) Oct 31 05:28:15 cbeust_, haha, that's using your noggin Oct 31 05:28:25 ... profit! Oct 31 05:28:32 I'd like something like Gtalk that runs at background and gives notification when highlighted. That would be cool! Oct 31 05:28:46 Aragon, noted! Oct 31 05:28:50 hi all Oct 31 05:28:57 d03boy: have you conisdering looking into the android IM framework? it looks like it might be abstracted enough to add irc as a new IM protocol Oct 31 05:29:02 d03boy: thanks! Oct 31 05:29:16 umdk1d3, i'll look into that Oct 31 05:29:17 not sure about channels and stuff, but it might be good to integrate with that if possible Oct 31 05:29:25 d03boy: it was in the source dump /me pulls it out Oct 31 05:29:34 anybody working on android porting Oct 31 05:30:45 d03boy: http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/packages/apps/IM.git;a=tree;f=plugin/com/android/im/plugin;hb=release-1.0 Oct 31 05:30:52 however, it might not be as abstract as i thought Oct 31 05:31:47 anyone working on smdk6400 board? Oct 31 05:32:32 i'll check it out Oct 31 05:44:46 http://forums.tmonews.com/index.php?topic=4480.0 Oct 31 05:44:55 Did Google really say that it is multi touch capable? Oct 31 05:45:33 On that forum, a couple of people say: "Google said that it has hardware support for multi touch, but that there is no software support (currently)." Oct 31 05:46:33 what is that "tmobile payment" notification? o.o Oct 31 05:49:18 sigh, just because it looks like it registers multiple touches doesnt mean it feeds anything useful back through its device driver that android could pick up Oct 31 05:49:57 its probably summarizing the touches at a very low hardware level, which means it might be near impossible to get access to the raw data Oct 31 05:50:15 Yeah, I'm ignoring those videos Oct 31 05:50:25 I'm just wondering about those quotes people are throwing out and attributing to Google Oct 31 05:51:03 well ideally if the hardware supports it google will make it available in the future Oct 31 05:51:25 Yes, that makes sense - but the real question I have is did Google ever state that it did have it available? Oct 31 05:51:57 nfi Oct 31 05:52:00 has anyone been brave enough to post gut-shots of the device taking it apart? Oct 31 05:52:07 I haven't seen any Oct 31 05:52:44 the "void" sticker on that screw might turn people off :) Oct 31 05:56:41 gah i think my cable provider changed their QAM channel mappings again >:/ Oct 31 05:56:49 * umdk1d3 goes to dig into mythtv Oct 31 06:06:24 RyeBrye: taking my Google hat off for a bit, it seems plausible that a Googler mentioned that the device can report approximate touch "size"/accuracy (which it can), and rephrased that as "the hardware supports multi-touch" Oct 31 06:06:42 er no not really Oct 31 06:06:54 spikebike: "no" to which part? Oct 31 06:07:02 size/accuracy/pressure is not at all the same as multitouch Oct 31 06:07:27 I can see how a marketing person could say something stupid like that though Oct 31 06:07:31 spikebike: I meant to say "and the person on the forum rephrased..." Oct 31 06:07:33 ideally you get a X wave form and a Y Oct 31 06:07:34 RyeBrye: ^^^ Oct 31 06:07:41 spikebike: I know how multitouch works Oct 31 06:07:47 oh, sorry, Oct 31 06:07:49 I jus tmisspoke Oct 31 06:07:59 Or even more lkely - a person on a forum :) Oct 31 06:08:04 yeah, an over eager rephrasing that then claim multi Oct 31 06:08:10 yeah, so the device DOES NOT support multitouch, right? Oct 31 06:08:13 so yeah it might not be multi Oct 31 06:08:13 (the G1) Oct 31 06:08:17 I've no idea Oct 31 06:08:36 RyeBrye: I don't think so, but I couldn't say for certain Oct 31 06:08:42 ok Oct 31 06:08:53 lets just say that you can touch it however you want and leave it at that Oct 31 06:08:55 * DarkriftX hides Oct 31 06:09:03 haha Oct 31 06:09:11 My phone likes to be touched Oct 31 06:09:30 what you multitouch on your own time is your own business Oct 31 06:10:09 this whole multitouch convo is so easy to have converted to perverted Oct 31 06:20:53 it sure died in here fast Oct 31 06:21:02 :) Oct 31 06:21:19 * waldo_ is touching his phone Oct 31 06:21:19 d03boy, if you release your app for free, can I host a copy of it on my site? Oct 31 06:21:33 * DarkriftX is touching waldo_'s phone too Oct 31 06:21:44 d0boy if you use androids built-in IM there might be a SMS charge for it Oct 31 06:21:57 The G1 will pair pretty easily with my Logitech bluetooth keyboards - but - alas - they wont connect :( (no surprise there) Oct 31 06:21:59 or pseudo XMPP or whatever it is Oct 31 06:22:06 easy darkriftx.. gentle now Oct 31 06:22:13 waldo_, whats wrong with just the data connection? Oct 31 06:22:32 hi Oct 31 06:22:33 there you go, paid version could have the choice :) Oct 31 06:22:45 some ppl have unlim data, some unlim text messaging Oct 31 06:22:49 d03boy data is unlmited but as I understand it tmobile counts IM as text messaging Oct 31 06:22:57 probably anything that comes over that gtalk channel Oct 31 06:23:07 anyone working on android porting? Oct 31 06:23:19 doesnt seem like many are in here android123 Oct 31 06:23:27 most seem to be working on development for android Oct 31 06:23:30 which I understand is a kind of streaming XML (XMPP, formerly known as jabber) that's been modified Oct 31 06:23:51 does irc have to go through that or something? Oct 31 06:23:53 they use it for email notifications and ims and sms and stuff that they can push in low-power mode Oct 31 06:24:04 no but I think umdk1d3 suggested it Oct 31 06:24:06 Huh? so they count the google talk stuff as text messaging? Oct 31 06:24:09 d03boy, he is talking about what was mentioned earlier about how you should try that Oct 31 06:24:09 oh, didnt see that Oct 31 06:24:14 RyeBrye: yah Oct 31 06:24:16 oh, the notifications Oct 31 06:24:19 That's total bullshit Oct 31 06:24:23 yeah Oct 31 06:24:32 umdk1d3 said you should look into using built in IM api for irc Oct 31 06:24:42 RyeBrye: no Oct 31 06:24:53 right and I'm saying if you do that I wonder if tmobile would charge for it (?) Oct 31 06:25:00 since they charge for IM Oct 31 06:25:07 we'd have to test, or ask I suppose Oct 31 06:25:18 if it was solely data then it's not a concern Oct 31 06:25:19 so, who knows about this?! https://android.clients.google.com/updates/signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq.TC4-RC19+RC28.zip Oct 31 06:25:25 cbeust: no to which part? Oct 31 06:25:34 huh? Oct 31 06:25:36 huh? Oct 31 06:25:38 Google Talk is part of data, it's not sms Oct 31 06:25:38 anyone? Oct 31 06:25:43 has anyone gotten the ota update? Oct 31 06:25:50 dude, chill out Oct 31 06:25:53 give ppl a chance to read it Oct 31 06:25:56 I have the OTA zip file on my desktop on my PC? Oct 31 06:26:06 cbeust: are you SURE about that/ Oct 31 06:26:09 YES Oct 31 06:26:13 Server Error Oct 31 06:26:13 The service you requested is not available yet. Oct 31 06:26:13 Please try again in 30 seconds. Oct 31 06:26:21 same here Oct 31 06:26:29 you need to get the CA cert off of your phone for that link to work Oct 31 06:26:35 otherwise it gives you a error 530 Oct 31 06:26:48 i c Oct 31 06:26:50 I got the link off of my phone when I did a manual check-in to get an update Oct 31 06:26:52 I/CheckinService( 8980): Checkin triggered: Intent { action=android.server.checkin.CHECKIN } Oct 31 06:26:52 I/CheckinService( 8980): Sending checkin request (709 bytes)... Oct 31 06:26:52 I/CheckinService( 8980): From server: Intent { action=android.server.checkin.FOTA_UPDATE data=https://android.clients.google.com/updates/signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq.TC4-RC19+RC28.zip } Oct 31 06:26:54 I/UpdateReceiver( 8980): Received update intent to download https://android.clients.google.com/u...-RC19+RC28.zip Oct 31 06:26:57 I/UpdateReceiver( 8980): Update is already being verified. Oct 31 06:26:59 I/CheckinService( 8980): Checkin success Oct 31 06:27:01 I just authorized it and it works Oct 31 06:27:13 get crack-a-lackin guys! Oct 31 06:27:15 keep pasting stuff. We wont be annoyed at all... Oct 31 06:27:27 is that android.clients link for your phone? Oct 31 06:27:29 It's not encrypted, just signed, right? Oct 31 06:27:32 yes Oct 31 06:27:37 it's for the G1 Oct 31 06:27:37 RyeBrye, did you dl it? Oct 31 06:27:40 wow Oct 31 06:27:44 I'm DLing it now Oct 31 06:27:51 it's just a plain zip file Oct 31 06:27:54 how big is it? Oct 31 06:27:54 44.7MB Oct 31 06:27:56 ok Oct 31 06:27:59 I'm close then Oct 31 06:28:15 where is RC29? Oct 31 06:28:19 who knows Oct 31 06:28:23 it's the OTA I got just now Oct 31 06:28:30 I'm on t-mobile in TX Oct 31 06:28:40 they are supposed to send out RC29. Oct 31 06:28:41 DaMiEn667: you just got that link on your phone? Oct 31 06:28:45 rc29 is supposed to be out Oct 31 06:28:50 Yeah, I thought rc29 was out Oct 31 06:29:01 yeah, I had the adb shell open and doing a logcat when it came across Oct 31 06:29:06 cool :) Oct 31 06:29:08 DaMiEn667: that's awesome Oct 31 06:29:15 and it gave me a "update is ready to install" popup Oct 31 06:29:19 so... it's the real deal guys Oct 31 06:29:22 wow Oct 31 06:29:40 do you know how to force it to install? Oct 31 06:29:43 yeah Oct 31 06:29:48 DaMiEn667: you got the link as sms or something? Oct 31 06:29:57 he says he got it w/adb Oct 31 06:29:59 no, it was a forced intent to checkin to google's update server Oct 31 06:30:07 and it responded with an intent to the link Oct 31 06:30:10 adb shell or adb logcat Oct 31 06:30:19 hrmmmm Oct 31 06:30:24 adb shell, then ran logcat inside the shell Oct 31 06:30:28 wonder what that 115247 means Oct 31 06:30:35 so the file itself is useless without the server telling you to download it? Oct 31 06:30:42 lol Oct 31 06:30:53 well I'm downloading it and it's huge Oct 31 06:31:04 it has the bin for radio Oct 31 06:31:06 dunno... Oct 31 06:31:07 for firmware Oct 31 06:31:10 for boot partition Oct 31 06:31:12 for everything Oct 31 06:31:15 wow Oct 31 06:31:18 44.7 MB Oct 31 06:31:24 44mb is all android takes? Oct 31 06:31:27 strange that they let you get it over the internet Oct 31 06:31:31 hahaha Oct 31 06:31:35 well 44 zipped Oct 31 06:31:43 you need their ssl cert for their server to let you download it Oct 31 06:31:45 waldo_, probably only does because you are tricking it with the cert Oct 31 06:31:48 lets see whts inside Oct 31 06:32:30 wow Oct 31 06:32:59 telnetd ? Oct 31 06:33:02 I don't need the cert to download it Oct 31 06:33:14 you can just download it w/a browser Oct 31 06:33:17 I just had to accept the one they were presenting Oct 31 06:33:26 depends on the browser Oct 31 06:33:30 I used firefox Oct 31 06:33:32 me either now Oct 31 06:33:37 5th refresh and its letting me dl Oct 31 06:33:41 weird. Oct 31 06:33:43 hmmm Oct 31 06:33:44 960k Oct 31 06:33:46 nice speed :) Oct 31 06:33:52 I downloaded it at 560 or 600 Oct 31 06:34:28 Is there anything in this that we dont' already know from the source? Oct 31 06:34:39 I mean - it's nice to update our phones without waiting for the OTA thing Oct 31 06:34:39 im sure its all new Oct 31 06:34:52 ummm... I don't think the OTA file format was known Oct 31 06:34:58 or the structure of it Oct 31 06:35:03 and, maybe someone can figure out how to create their own OTA update and trick it to installing :) Oct 31 06:35:06 ok, good point Oct 31 06:35:17 this is great news for ppl that like to dig into that crap Oct 31 06:35:18 yeah, as soon as I find that private key of theirs I've been hiding away :) Oct 31 06:35:23 Yes, it's true Oct 31 06:35:43 now we need to cook our own, spoof the google site and see if we can get a root shell on the phones :-) Oct 31 06:36:01 DaMiEn667: good luck, sir. Oct 31 06:36:05 hahaha Oct 31 06:36:09 And make sure Google never hears about it Oct 31 06:36:16 cbeust: They'll hear, don't worry. Oct 31 06:36:18 I was waiting for YOU guys to do it for me! Oct 31 06:36:22 DaMiEn667: heh Oct 31 06:36:25 yeah, there are google devs in here, tey already heard about it Oct 31 06:36:29 ttuttle: they just did Oct 31 06:36:32 its all logged Oct 31 06:36:36 pffff Oct 31 06:36:39 like they care Oct 31 06:36:44 it's t-mo we gotta worry about Oct 31 06:36:47 but still, its not google that wants it unhacked i think, its just tmo lol Oct 31 06:36:54 We kind of do Oct 31 06:37:03 they want the DRM panties to stay on, I think Oct 31 06:37:09 im sure google would like this to grow and expand more hten the carriers would Oct 31 06:37:31 and it's not just DRM Oct 31 06:37:34 it's IP too Oct 31 06:37:45 im looking forwrd to android becoming more of a small computer and less of a phone :) Oct 31 06:37:45 since the hardware supports multi-touch Oct 31 06:37:53 :) Oct 31 06:38:05 if we get root access... we can have multi-touch drivers inserted :-) Oct 31 06:38:19 Ok, I'm still not convinced that the hardware supports multi touch Oct 31 06:38:36 in a similar vein I wonder if the g1 will ever support UMA Oct 31 06:38:41 some claim it can be done in software Oct 31 06:39:52 I don't know if you guys are aware... but I got the interest of everyone at xda-developers... we have a thread going for what we're trying to do... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2845404 Oct 31 06:40:19 these are the guys that did all the hacking with HTC bootloaders for the previous HTC windows phones Oct 31 06:40:51 yep Oct 31 06:41:15 They are the best bet to get into this Oct 31 06:44:08 i'm trying to figure if anything here will run on the emulator Oct 31 06:44:09 also... just an FYI... if you take the file, rename it to update (with no file extension), put it on the root of your SD card... power off the phone and hold HOME+POWER to go into bootloader... then ALT+L and ALT+S.... bootloader flashes the update from SD Oct 31 06:44:31 no need to wait for OTA notification Oct 31 06:44:41 nice Oct 31 06:44:46 no need to spoof google site Oct 31 06:44:59 once it updates, can you have it reflash with the same update again? Oct 31 06:45:00 now we need to know if we can update it with our own code Oct 31 06:45:10 Good, I'll call back the commandos heading to you Oct 31 06:45:22 There's a REASON GPS is a required part of the platform :) Oct 31 06:45:30 lol Oct 31 06:45:34 and there's a REASON google just bought a fighter jet Oct 31 06:45:34 good thing I had the phone off? Oct 31 06:45:46 Like we need the phone to locate you Oct 31 06:45:54 they'll never find me in my lead box! Oct 31 06:46:20 Don't worry, you're safe as long as you're not connected on the Internet Oct 31 06:46:29 phfew Oct 31 06:46:36 For a second there I was worried Oct 31 06:46:38 g'night sirs Oct 31 06:49:11 DaMiEn667: how did you figure that out... the UPDATE thing? Oct 31 06:49:19 these apps won't load to the emulator Oct 31 06:49:35 that's interesting about the emulator Oct 31 06:49:57 error -11 Oct 31 06:49:58 but anyway Oct 31 06:50:09 this is beyond my abilities. Oct 31 06:50:10 waldo_: I used AnyCut to create a shortcut to Device Info on the phone Oct 31 06:50:24 ah Oct 31 06:50:26 at the bottom of that window, you have a way to force the update Oct 31 06:50:34 ah... Oct 31 06:50:40 and when I did, I actually got a response from the sever with a location for the update file Oct 31 06:51:03 so I plugged it into my PC and got the intent information fro logcat Oct 31 06:51:04 cool Oct 31 06:51:43 This battery is remarkably hard to kill - I hope that the calibration is off in the battery and not the OS, and by draining it down to zero I can get it to realize it's full potential Oct 31 06:51:47 damn, i wonder if thats why the dl only works half the time Oct 31 06:51:52 ppl forcing upgrades :S Oct 31 06:51:56 lol Oct 31 06:52:03 google is throttling that server for sure Oct 31 06:52:10 actually some things install to the emulator. Hmm. Oct 31 06:52:56 like what? Oct 31 06:53:03 settings app? lol Oct 31 06:53:24 IM.apk. I think if it was there already maybe. Oct 31 06:53:30 error [-11] on the others Oct 31 06:54:53 ah... i'll let minds greater than mine figure this out. It's all open source anyway. Oct 31 06:55:02 it's possible to for an upgrade? Oct 31 06:55:13 spikebike: the upgrades are coming over the air to a phone near you Oct 31 06:55:20 yeah so I've heard Oct 31 06:55:32 I've got 2... neither upgraded yet Oct 31 06:55:37 I wonder if someone else can try to force and upgade and use the same logcat method to see the link for RC29 Oct 31 06:55:40 is it possible to force an upgrade? Oct 31 06:55:55 well Oct 31 06:56:01 one guy tried the bootloader method Oct 31 06:56:08 but I think we have the first reported bricked G1 Oct 31 06:56:11 hahahaha Oct 31 06:56:17 woops :/ Oct 31 06:56:17 :? Oct 31 06:56:24 ah, I love my g1 to much to risk a brick Oct 31 06:56:39 he said the phone is stuck in the android bootup screen Oct 31 06:56:47 but I dunno... that means the kernel is loaded Oct 31 06:56:48 Anyone tried that update? Oct 31 06:56:56 I'm going for a dog walk, maybe God^H^H^HGoogle will notice me wandering under the stars with 4 bars of signal Oct 31 06:58:11 later ya'll... Oct 31 06:58:18 have fun Oct 31 06:58:39 That guy updated his post and it sounds like he got it working Oct 31 06:58:45 yeah? Oct 31 06:58:53 maybe it does work through SD after all Oct 31 06:59:10 Man, even with "Check For Upgrade" it still is leaving me at RC19 Oct 31 06:59:51 oh, it should definitely flash through SD Oct 31 06:59:56 I've been told that many times by googlers Oct 31 07:00:13 but the answer is pretty much "no" if it will flash unsigned through SD Oct 31 07:00:40 Lenolium: download the file from the link I posted earlier and you can do an manual update over SD Oct 31 07:01:05 DaMiEn667 - you just do adb logcat when you did the force update? Oct 31 07:01:12 yes Oct 31 07:01:18 and it shows you the intents/actions Oct 31 07:01:26 and in the response it told me the address to the update Oct 31 07:02:25 this is what I saw when I did catlog: Oct 31 07:02:26 I/ActivityManager( 8980): Starting activity: Intent { action=android.server.checkin.FOTA_READY flags=0x30800004 comp={com.android.updater/com.android.updater.PesterActivity} (has extras) } Oct 31 07:02:26 I/PesterActivity(10094): OTA update available: /cache/signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq.TC4-RC19+RC28.zip Oct 31 07:02:26 I/PesterActivity(10094): Next OTA prompt in 1799 sec Oct 31 07:03:05 except that one says the location in cache :-p Oct 31 07:03:13 now we know where it saves it on the phone Oct 31 07:03:17 lol Oct 31 07:05:35 I saved my logcat on my PC for later if you guys want it Oct 31 07:05:42 that means it annoys you ever 1/2 hour that it's sitting on your sdcard waiting to update I guess Oct 31 07:05:49 yes, it does Oct 31 07:05:53 it's pretty annoying Oct 31 07:06:02 Good lord... DL'ing 44 megs over EDGE? Oct 31 07:06:08 that would take forever Oct 31 07:06:11 lol Oct 31 07:06:16 I wonder if they will even push OTA updates to people on edge Oct 31 07:06:29 I'm edge only Oct 31 07:06:35 well sometimes wifi Oct 31 07:06:36 did you get a pushed update? Oct 31 07:06:46 it checks for update over any connection it can resolve the domain name on Oct 31 07:06:52 ok Oct 31 07:06:57 so it would DL over wifi? Oct 31 07:07:00 yep Oct 31 07:07:03 I did over wifi Oct 31 07:07:13 zoom zoom Oct 31 07:07:26 My android ID hasn't been 'chosen' I guess Oct 31 07:07:28 I only have 37MB free on the phone, 900 ish free on the sd card Oct 31 07:07:30 I force and force and force Oct 31 07:07:34 but no update comes Oct 31 07:07:46 (jus twondering if I could get an RC29 link) Oct 31 07:07:49 content not supported Oct 31 07:08:11 ? Oct 31 07:08:23 I got an R28 filename... but I dunno if it's actually R29 since I haven't done the update Oct 31 07:08:26 so honestly... at any time during that 1/2 hour it's waiting to nag you, you could just pop the sdcard and grab the update that way Oct 31 07:08:34 yep Oct 31 07:08:35 I could not download using phone browser Oct 31 07:08:46 phone browser doesn't know what to do with zip files Oct 31 07:08:52 you need to use PC browser Oct 31 07:09:02 yeah, thats what i did. Oct 31 07:09:08 damien why did it give you an intent with the .zip then? Oct 31 07:09:22 because I forced the update check Oct 31 07:09:27 through a dialog window Oct 31 07:09:29 on the phone Oct 31 07:09:43 and I guess it was just "my turn" Oct 31 07:09:46 to get it Oct 31 07:10:09 but what does the phone know about .zip? Oct 31 07:10:11 DaMiEn667: Are you in a 3G area? or near one? Oct 31 07:10:17 yes Oct 31 07:10:21 I'm in 3g area Oct 31 07:10:29 Ahh, I bet they pushed the update to phones sold in a 3G area first. Oct 31 07:10:50 my phone was sold in a 3G area Oct 31 07:10:54 no update 8-( Oct 31 07:11:01 I even tried calling the intent manually through a quick test app I made Oct 31 07:11:08 but that failed and got an exception Oct 31 07:11:20 "Get back in line, chump!" Oct 31 07:11:53 you guys can download the file from the link I gave, put the file on SD and have the bootloader update your phone and not have to wait in line any more :-p Oct 31 07:12:08 for rc28 or rc29? Oct 31 07:12:13 it looks like 28 Oct 31 07:12:15 DaMiEn667 - what happens if you push for an update now? Oct 31 07:12:30 I wonder if RC29 just goes out to the RC28 people Oct 31 07:12:31 it tells me that it's ready for me to update and brings up the message box to do so Oct 31 07:12:37 oh, ok Oct 31 07:12:44 kila = alternate name for the htc dream btw Oct 31 07:13:20 Yes, because the HTC dream needs more names Oct 31 07:13:34 waldo_: not exactly Oct 31 07:13:49 no? Oct 31 07:14:10 time for me to sleep on this new development... later ya'll Oct 31 07:14:14 night Oct 31 07:14:14 It's a release name, not a hardware name Oct 31 07:15:05 posted it on my site Oct 31 07:15:51 https://android.clients.google.com/updates/ Hey - one of you google guys want to go fix that server? Oct 31 07:15:56 directory listings appear to be disabled ;) Oct 31 07:15:59 I'm getting Can't mount /dev/block/mmvblk0p1 (no such file or directory) Oct 31 07:16:11 RyeBrye: I'll get right on that Oct 31 07:20:14 lol RyeBrye Oct 31 07:20:22 and also remove the speed cap please Oct 31 07:20:27 and give me a private login if you dont mind Oct 31 07:20:43 and remove all the files from in there Oct 31 07:25:44 reject serialno=HT7*|HT80*|HT81* ... engineering prefixes? Oct 31 07:27:08 OMG I'm getting TMobile hot-spot in my house :O Oct 31 07:27:15 Really? Oct 31 07:27:26 You need to move out of that Kinkos and get a nicer place Oct 31 07:27:28 ;) Oct 31 07:27:55 No, really! Oct 31 07:29:44 wow Oct 31 07:29:46 thats awesome Oct 31 07:31:18 sure settled down in here Oct 31 07:31:24 we need more excitement! Oct 31 07:31:38 I want to see two things... Oct 31 07:32:03 1: if once you've run the RC28 update if you put it on there and do the bootloader flashing thing again from the SD card if it will try to reflash again with the same version Oct 31 07:32:24 oooh Oct 31 07:32:27 and 2: what happens if you try to toy with some files in it and then update with that Oct 31 07:32:28 good idea Oct 31 07:32:29 I could not run the update Oct 31 07:32:38 errors? Oct 31 07:32:42 yeah Oct 31 07:32:43 What does your SN start with? Oct 31 07:33:03 HT Oct 31 07:33:09 and? Oct 31 07:33:10 The next 2 digits? Oct 31 07:33:13 lol Oct 31 07:33:22 7* or 81* or 80* ? Oct 31 07:33:24 HT83 Oct 31 07:33:27 nope Oct 31 07:33:34 :? Oct 31 07:33:41 reject serialno=HT7*|HT80*|HT81* ... engineering prefixes? Oct 31 07:33:43 but not being able to run the update, and it still didn't do anything bad? Oct 31 07:33:54 Can't mount /dev/block/mmcblk0p1 (no such file or directory) Oct 31 07:34:13 did you change your SD card from teh stock one? Oct 31 07:34:30 It's the stock one Oct 31 07:34:43 Thin I should format it Oct 31 07:34:52 I don't know Oct 31 07:34:55 I haven't tried the update yet Oct 31 07:35:28 RyeBrye, every file is marked Oct 31 07:35:30 Name: system/lib/libpvdownloadreg.so Oct 31 07:35:30 SHA1-Digest: Psku+xsKIfG3cDYOi2dJkO7qzn4= Oct 31 07:36:41 wow, lots of interesting info in here Oct 31 07:36:57 A base64-encoded sha512? Oct 31 07:37:09 they have a busybox type "toolbox" program for most commands :( Oct 31 07:37:21 symlink toolbox SYSTEM:bin/mkdosfs Oct 31 07:37:31 I wonder if that's the actual sha512, or if it's encoded with some special sauce. Oct 31 07:37:41 DarkriftX: You can find that stuff in the source code too :-) Oct 31 07:37:50 yeah, i cant read source lol Oct 31 07:37:57 this is easier for me to mess with lol Oct 31 07:38:04 the update-script file Oct 31 07:38:31 im not good enough in linux to do anything useful but maybe someday Oct 31 07:38:46 The stuff that is interesting to me is that the radio images are in there - and those aren't OSS, right? Oct 31 07:39:21 write_raw_image PACKAGE:boot.img BOOT: Oct 31 07:39:34 i guess thats how the bootloader is updated lol Oct 31 07:40:26 radio is written differently: write_radio_image PACKAGE:radio.img Oct 31 07:40:37 anyone know the device name for the emu? Oct 31 07:41:05 assert getprop("ro.product.device") == "dream" || getprop("ro.build.product") == "dream" <--might be useful in trying to get it running on the emulator Oct 31 07:41:30 Well... I'm really tired so I'm off to bed Oct 31 07:41:51 porting android? Oct 31 07:42:45 i am new to porting Oct 31 07:42:55 how can i start another activity from my current one? Oct 31 07:43:09 say i want some user input on a new screen, how is the best way to do that? Oct 31 07:43:18 in teh same package ascii? Oct 31 07:43:22 yes Oct 31 07:43:32 any one has useful resources on android porting? Oct 31 07:43:32 can't you just create a new class? Oct 31 07:43:44 new myActivity(); Oct 31 07:44:26 that easy?...what do i do when i resume my current activity then? Oct 31 07:44:27 android plenty of documentaiton online Oct 31 07:44:40 no android123 Oct 31 07:44:44 not many ppl in here working on porting Oct 31 07:44:50 check xda-developers forums Oct 31 07:56:31 damn, quite here and on that forum, everyone must be off testing or tweaking Oct 31 07:57:22 DarkriftX: howdy Oct 31 07:58:44 hola muthu Oct 31 07:58:58 having fun with your G1? Oct 31 07:59:03 dont have one yet Oct 31 07:59:21 oh ok Oct 31 07:59:25 you in london? Oct 31 07:59:28 nope Oct 31 07:59:32 us Oct 31 07:59:40 not buying it? Oct 31 07:59:51 not yet Oct 31 07:59:53 but soon Oct 31 08:00:00 waiting for 99$ deal huh ;) Oct 31 08:00:11 contracts scare me lol Oct 31 08:00:29 How do you get a app that you create onto the g1? (i dont have the phone just curious) Oct 31 08:00:39 make an installer and install it Oct 31 08:00:46 either from command line or from a website Oct 31 08:01:08 mattgyver83: publish it on market Oct 31 08:01:15 thanks. Oct 31 08:01:21 muthu, you playing with the OTA? Oct 31 08:01:32 nope, don't have a G1 Oct 31 08:01:36 ahh Oct 31 08:01:46 will get one soon Oct 31 08:01:46 im thinking it might work on the emu if edited a lil Oct 31 08:02:05 is the market available for emu? Oct 31 08:02:07 is there sth like a desktop buddy for the G1 where I can load a binary into and it is gonna be installed on the device. (like activesync, bb desktop manager, etc.)? Oct 31 08:02:17 no, but maybe it would be after this update lol Oct 31 08:02:39 kinda macboz its command line though from what ive heard Oct 31 08:02:52 adb install filename.apk Oct 31 08:03:01 whens northern europe getting the g1 :( Oct 31 08:03:03 want one so bad Oct 31 08:03:06 but that's not really convenient for 0815 users :) Oct 31 08:03:56 market was supposed to do all that Oct 31 08:04:11 slideme is another option Oct 31 08:05:15 it seems the android story still needs a lot of work ... especially to make it very easy to use for my mom :) Oct 31 08:05:39 yep Oct 31 08:06:11 its not a "for my mom" phone Oct 31 08:06:17 not yet anyways Oct 31 08:07:05 I disagree actually Oct 31 08:07:09 hopefully this changes soon. as this is the only way to rule the market. anyhoo, the API is pretty nice - i like it so far Oct 31 08:07:33 if your mom can manage to click on firefox, and click on a point and shoot's shutter button they can likely handle the phone Oct 31 08:07:42 my wife is definitelya newbie, and she loves it Oct 31 08:08:08 if you can manage to get a web browser to gmail.com and edit contacts you are plenty technical enough to enjoy the phone Oct 31 08:08:24 spikebike: how does she install an app if she doesn't have a browser at hand but has the program file on her computer? Oct 31 08:08:44 how would that happen? Oct 31 08:08:54 gmail's contact editor needs work, preferrably a lot of stolen code from the google spreadsheet. Oct 31 08:09:04 that's just thinking about it wrong, in alot of ways many geeks have the wrong habits Oct 31 08:09:22 macboz: Wouldn't she just install the app from the market? Oct 31 08:09:54 there's an app browser built in. Click market -> games or market -> applications and drag your finger around Oct 31 08:10:26 if you sent her a URL she could go to a random website and download an app, but that's not what most users do Oct 31 08:10:30 at least not yet Oct 31 08:10:57 by default there's not even an address sync button.. it just works... edit contacts locally or at google and it just works Oct 31 08:11:08 read mail at gmail.. don't worry about where it's stored Oct 31 08:11:33 well .. it sync's with your google account Oct 31 08:11:34 read calendar... again don't worry about where it's stored... for the most part it's just magic, it works, and it's easy to sue Oct 31 08:11:45 i don't have a google account so i can't use it? Oct 31 08:11:51 yup Oct 31 08:11:57 you have to create one if you don't Oct 31 08:12:01 otherwise you have a brick Oct 31 08:12:04 i would like to sync it with my outlook as well. Oct 31 08:12:29 so far contacts can sync, but not email (afaik) Oct 31 08:12:37 if you export to spreadsheet, google can import Oct 31 08:12:46 (for contacts) Oct 31 08:13:11 but it's not a full email, cal, address sync with exchange... at least not yet Oct 31 08:15:24 i think i have to stick with by blackberry and just get a G1 for playing around... and I really want to know how the app installation works. really wanna see that. Oct 31 08:15:37 gonna take a look to youtube now :) Oct 31 08:16:17 heh, click.. wait Oct 31 08:16:20 that's it Oct 31 08:16:59 macboz: Just FYI (because it's not a full solution, just a workaround), the browser on the G1 is perfectly capable of handling the Outlook Web Access stuff. Oct 31 08:17:00 * jpalmer wonders when skyfire will be ported to android Oct 31 08:17:13 skyfire Oct 31 08:17:16 whats skyfire Oct 31 08:17:39 Lenolium: thanks for the hint :) Oct 31 08:17:49 http://www.skyfire.com/ Oct 31 08:18:22 :) Oct 31 08:18:23 ah, another question: does anyone knows if I can rotate the Android simulator of the SDK on Mac OS X? Oct 31 08:18:24 still in beta, but they have symbian, WM, and iphone support now I think Oct 31 08:18:51 ok, thought id give installing Settings.apk a try but that failed Oct 31 08:18:57 so much for my genius ideas :( Oct 31 08:21:11 anyhow, skyfire is a browser for mobile platforms. all the rendering is done server side, so it supports flash, and java, and whatnot. just as your desktop browser does. instead of WAP friendly sites, you can view any site just as you would on your desktop machine Oct 31 08:21:16 DarkriftX: are you building from source? Oct 31 08:21:22 no Oct 31 08:21:35 never was good with source Oct 31 08:21:41 which is why i like debian/*buntu Oct 31 08:21:42 the source version has almost everything except market Oct 31 08:21:45 apt FTW! Oct 31 08:22:10 ive been looking for it pre-compiled so i could try it Oct 31 08:22:15 nobody seems to host it though Oct 31 08:22:42 jpalmer: That seems... interesting... but I would think the bandwidth between the renderer and your screen is bigger than the bandwidth between the browser and the internet, and it seems like the bandwidth is the limiting factor on the G1 Oct 31 08:23:14 Lenolium: quite possible. I don't have a G1, so I wouldn't know the limitations there Oct 31 08:23:26 Lenolium, thats not a problem with most other mobile devices Oct 31 08:23:32 the biggest complaint about it is privacy Oct 31 08:23:42 everything you view is rendered server side :S Oct 31 08:24:12 yeah, i wouldn't use it for private sites. banking, anything with a login.. etc Oct 31 08:24:29 it's like opera mini Oct 31 08:24:29 or pr0n if you are a fetishist (spelled right?) Oct 31 08:24:56 NiZoX: it's not like opera mini. lol Oct 31 08:25:26 I can see it now: "Man found looking at donkey-human relations using server side rendering browser!" Oct 31 08:25:35 haha Oct 31 08:26:00 jpalmer: opera mini uses a proxy to adapt web pages Oct 31 08:26:04 See, opera mini I at least understand. Oct 31 08:26:05 DarkriftX: while that wouldn't be too far from the truth, I do know it works with flash enabled porn sites like youporn and redtube. Oct 31 08:26:06 "wow, he was on that last picture for 2 minutes and suddenly closed the browser... wonder why" Oct 31 08:26:18 yes jpalmer thats its biggest + from what ive heard Oct 31 08:27:19 my phone is a WM device. I use PIE for most browsing, but when a site won't work or display correclty in PIE (and it's not sensitive/private/confidential) I view it in skyfire. Oct 31 08:27:38 So, it sounds to me like skyfire is just a newer VNC/rdesktop? Oct 31 08:27:39 Lenolium, skyfire takes your devices specs and reports it to server and the server sends back a very small version (less data) of the original page as its being rendered Oct 31 08:27:44 kinda Oct 31 08:28:00 DarkriftX: sounds like Opera Mini like he said :) Oct 31 08:28:02 but imagine a vnc that made a thumbnail sized pic since its knows your res is small Oct 31 08:28:25 no, opera mini rewrites the html to make it mobile compat i thought Oct 31 08:28:33 it also rewrites the images Oct 31 08:28:35 like adding a mobile css Oct 31 08:28:35 reformats the page Oct 31 08:28:36 etc. Oct 31 08:28:38 oh, didnt know that Oct 31 08:28:52 so yeah, close Oct 31 08:28:56 and good morning romainguy Oct 31 08:28:58 well, I guess you could look at it that way. it's not really like a vnc, but more like.. your phone essentially becomes a dumb terminal, all the processing and rendering is done on the server.. your phone just dispays the resulting sites/sounds Oct 31 08:29:16 And it actually compresses the html/css into a pre-parsed binary format for faster rendering on slower processors. Oct 31 08:29:19 opera mini even handles javascript on the server Oct 31 08:29:32 so web sites with dynamic javascript (kinda) work Oct 31 08:30:09 lol, someone on xda-devs is working on extracting the radio/bootloader images from the OTA Oct 31 08:30:11 Essentially, opera mini sounds like it would be neat on GPRS, and skyfire sounds like it would be neat on 3G Oct 31 08:30:38 I use skyfire on evdo/cdma Oct 31 08:30:39 skyfire works fine on 3G Oct 31 08:30:41 I used Opera Mini a lot on GPRS and EDGE Oct 31 08:30:44 it was awesome Oct 31 08:30:46 youtube, etc.. Oct 31 08:39:07 i need to go to sleep but i wanna watch that xda thread lol Oct 31 08:39:49 hrm, I thought the g1 had built in gps, but the features page doesn't mention it Oct 31 08:40:47 jpalmer: It has it, I've used it. It also has an electronic compass (of varying accuracy) Oct 31 08:41:25 romainguy: do you know if there is a possibility to get system updates using a unlocked g1 (so no T-Mobile SIM) ? If there is a possibility I could buy now an unlocked G1. :-) Oct 31 08:41:42 whats the name of the android market app called Oct 31 08:41:45 I have no idea Oct 31 08:41:46 I'm not seeing it on the features page. is it actual gps? or simulated by triangulation or distance from tower? Oct 31 08:41:50 I thought BestBuy was selling unlocked G1's. Oct 31 08:42:28 jpalmer: It's actual GPS from what I know, either that or they got really good at cell tower triangulation Oct 31 08:42:54 hrm, I'll have to dig a bit deeper then Oct 31 08:42:58 thnks for the info Oct 31 08:43:13 it's a real GPS Oct 31 08:43:20 + assisted GPS when you don't get a real GPS fix Oct 31 08:43:26 an app can ask for one, the other or both Oct 31 08:44:01 well, if it's anything like WM devices, aGPS helps get fixes faster by finding out sat locations/trajectories for faster locks Oct 31 08:44:23 ok thx. :) Oct 31 08:44:37 but regardless, seems like something they'd advertise. and I'm looking at their features page and their downloadable pdf, I see no mention of it :/ Oct 31 08:44:50 jpalmer: What romainguy was saying is that apps can ask for different levels of information, and when you install them it gives you a little warning about how detailed of a location the app is going to get. Oct 31 08:46:05 But yes, having a GPS should be in big bold letters somewhere, I'm just waiting for TomTom/someone to put out a good turn-by-turn nav app on this and I can put my standard GPS in a closet somewhere. Oct 31 08:46:34 thats what I did. I had a $400 magellan GPS that is now in a closet. hehe Oct 31 08:46:41 anno^da_, there is now because someone found out how to download the updates Oct 31 08:47:04 and install them* Oct 31 08:47:41 DarkriftX: Is there some How To available ? Oct 31 08:47:55 they are still working on it, they figured it out a few hours ago Oct 31 08:48:04 a great thanks Oct 31 08:48:35 they should bundle into an application :-) Oct 31 08:48:51 told you you could update from the sdcard :p Oct 31 08:49:21 its an htc device, of course you can Oct 31 08:49:47 figureing out how was the question (was) Oct 31 09:00:37 great so I can buy a G1 now :-) Oct 31 09:04:18 lol Oct 31 09:04:29 they are only going to get better :) Oct 31 09:13:55 * spikebike reads back. AGPS seems like a scam Oct 31 09:14:45 ? Oct 31 09:16:05 no, its still GPS but better :P Oct 31 09:17:38 enables faster GPS lock-ons and enables GPS lock where the signal strength is too weak for the device to calculate its position on its own Oct 31 09:17:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS Oct 31 09:18:14 depends on the implementation I guess... but that's the main selling argument Oct 31 09:19:28 sort of Oct 31 09:19:38 agps isn't the hard part Oct 31 09:19:44 and it doesn't decay quickly Oct 31 09:19:59 so you could boot once a day and it takes 30 seconds... done Oct 31 09:20:28 most external GPS boot way quicker without agps than the gps models do with agps Oct 31 09:22:11 agps speeds up locks because it obtains ephemeris data another way. without it, the gps receiever has to download the data, then start it's calculations. which takes time. agps just supplies the ephemeris data from the DoD data Oct 31 09:23:16 right Oct 31 09:23:23 but that data lasts awhile Oct 31 09:23:31 it's not like you need to download it per point Oct 31 09:23:35 on bigger, more expensive gps units, they can get the ephemeris data faster, and do the calculations quicker, so they do get faster locks. the small recievers in things like cellphones take a while to obtain that data (it has to be uninterupted from the bird) and perform the calcs. so TTFF can be upwards of 10 minutes. Oct 31 09:24:24 seems like someone got the bright idea, lets save $1.00 on the chip, then we can charge for the agps data Oct 31 09:24:30 spikebike: right, we''re assuming first fix here. after that, even if you don't use the gps for a week or two, you can get locks in 30 seconds without agps. Oct 31 09:25:19 my phone, without agps, gets locks in about 18 seconds. with agps, I'll lock 9 birds in 6 seconds, inside my house. Oct 31 09:25:29 hi Oct 31 09:26:10 spikebike, agps chips are not cheaper than gps chips if that's what you mean... Oct 31 09:26:43 so does the agps work on the g1? Oct 31 09:26:55 do the updates come in over edge/3g? Oct 31 09:27:02 or is it just unimplemented Oct 31 09:27:05 it should work if your operator supports it :) Oct 31 09:27:26 haven't looked at the g1, but you can get agps data over your data conenction if it's enabled. Oct 31 09:27:28 or whatever seervice provider.. Oct 31 09:28:18 mine is tmo Oct 31 09:28:40 The only feedback I've gotten so far is cute little sat dish+wave animations Oct 31 09:30:52 spikebike: do you see a place where you can put in agps server info? if so, I know for a fact that alltel runs a trusted PDE (as in, anyone can use it) I can get you the info to connect to it. Oct 31 09:31:58 for me agps is not working because there is no assistance server capable of assisting me in my country :/ Oct 31 09:32:35 tauno, what country? Oct 31 09:32:36 I've poked around a good bit and found no place where anything like that is mentioned Oct 31 09:33:07 tauno, you should be able to use any PDE, as long as it's open. it's just ephemeris data. Oct 31 09:34:08 jpalmer, but the assistance server provides assistance based on what? based on cell info? Oct 31 09:34:36 no Oct 31 09:34:44 DoD ephemeris data Oct 31 09:35:04 oh, thats not what the wiki said :S Oct 31 09:35:14 indeed :) Oct 31 09:35:15 all your agps does, it gets rid of the long download of ephemeris data from the bird, for the first lock. Oct 31 09:35:39 ok.. it said so amongst other things :) Oct 31 09:35:41 said it jump starts normal gps by gathering gps data from cell towers to get a rough guess of your location and giving you info that would assist the gps in finding the stats Oct 31 09:36:23 DarkriftX: agps doesn't use "cell towers" at all. unless they mean the cell tower carries your data packets, and sends the ephemeris data over your data plan ;) Oct 31 09:36:48 wiki says also that "The assistance server can locate the phone roughly by which cell site it is connected to on the cellular network." <- thats why I tought that it wouldn't work here - the assistance server knows nothing about the cells that I am in.. Oct 31 09:36:53 DarkriftX: one of the problems with a wiki as a primary source of info, anyone can edit it. regardless of their knowledge level. Oct 31 09:37:07 it was talking about cell towers having EXACT known locations and using that to provide a rough location so your gps can pick the correct sats faster Oct 31 09:37:12 thats paraphrasing of course Oct 31 09:37:30 and yes, i understand that, im just saying what that said Oct 31 09:37:45 Tauno: I assure you, the cell towers have nothing to do with calculating the birds locations and channels. that info comes directly from the ephemeris data. Oct 31 09:38:13 sorta backing up that what he is saying was from the wiki, and i read the same thing. Oct 31 09:38:14 care to edit the wiki page if you are sure? ;) Oct 31 09:38:15 i c Oct 31 09:38:17 without agps, you download that data directly from the bird. it takes time. with agps, you get that data much faster over your data connection. period. Oct 31 09:38:27 i c Oct 31 09:38:44 damn, i need sleep Oct 31 09:38:45 its late Oct 31 09:38:53 I don't waste my time on wikis. as soon as it's edited properly, some other person who completely misunderstands will just nullify all your work. Oct 31 09:38:56 gn all, good luck hacking at that update for all who are :) Oct 31 09:39:03 jpalmer: cell triangulation is common technique that might be part of agps Oct 31 09:39:30 macboz: cell triangulation is something completely different. and yes, it's commonly misnamed "agps" by carriers. Oct 31 09:39:58 so tell me. where does your data connection know the location from? :) Oct 31 09:40:07 a PDE server Oct 31 09:40:35 (position determination entity) Oct 31 09:40:46 ..did my BS work on relative positioning based on cells.. that was fun :P Oct 31 09:41:14 which ultimatly, gets the ephemeris data from the DoD Oct 31 09:41:19 ok, and which location does the PDE deliver? Oct 31 09:41:54 it doesn't deliver any "location" it delivers the ephemeris data. the locations and channels of the birds in orbit. Oct 31 09:43:10 but that data the cell tower delivers is based on the cell tower's location, right? because if not, that wouldn't make any sense as there are just a bunch of satellites and every gps receiver could carry their locations ... Oct 31 09:43:10 when you cold start a gps reciever, it doesn't even know what channels to listen on. it picks some at random (how many, depends on your reciever) and attempts to download the ephemeris data directly from a bird. if it finds nothing on that channel, it ties the next channel.. Oct 31 09:43:40 you are confusing cell triangulation with true agps. Oct 31 09:43:53 cell tower location has absolutly nothing to do with true agps. Oct 31 09:44:04 i didn't say anything about triangulation since my first sentence ... :) Oct 31 09:44:34 ok. let me ask you. what data do you think a cell tower delivers, that relates to true agps ;) Oct 31 09:45:08 a timestamp Oct 31 09:45:22 heh Oct 31 09:45:29 :p Oct 31 09:45:41 hold on. let me find a post that tells you how GPS works. maybe it can explain better than I can Oct 31 09:46:40 like to see that Oct 31 09:46:44 here, this is actually pretty informative. they are discussing a program for HTC phones, that gets GPS data. disregard that, and read about how agps works. first post http://www.htcwiki.com/thread/939263/How+Quick+GPS+Works Oct 31 09:47:10 (quickgps is the program they are discussin, apparently) Oct 31 09:48:36 jpalmer, you were right.. there is a LOT of mixing up stuff when talking about agps it seems.. For example the book "Next generation wireless networks" explains agps by a combination of cell triangulation and gps Oct 31 09:48:50 you're right. maybe i expressed myself in a wrong way Oct 31 09:49:25 Tauno: unfortunately, cellular providers have called multiple things "agps" so, it can quickly become confusing Oct 31 09:49:26 what i actually wanted to say is: the sentence in the wiki is correct and even fits your description Oct 31 09:50:11 well.. it explains it the same way that I have always understood it - the cell network knows your surrounding cells/sectors and based on that info can give your device better data about the birds and stuff.. Oct 31 09:50:27 ok, thats not correct. :) Oct 31 09:50:45 jap Tauno I see it the same Oct 31 09:51:34 argh.. why canät there be a public and free specification of some sort? currently (for me at least) its your word against a book :P Oct 31 09:51:56 the word "locate" in the expression "The assistance server can locate the phone roughly by which cell site it is connected to on the cellular network." does not refer to the GPS location. it more refers to the actual tower's area the phone is logged in. Oct 31 09:52:20 "Assisted GPS for Wireless Phone Location — Technology and Standards " is $25 @ springerlink :P Oct 31 09:52:30 *shrug* I guess unless you are writing a program that needs GPS data, it doesn't really matter if I'm correct or not. as long as your device somehow eventually can get the ephemeris data. Oct 31 09:52:59 I'm not writing anything related to gps right now.. I'm just curious :) Oct 31 09:53:21 Well, I wrote several GPS apps (at least partially) and some are quite good selling. So I guess I made sth. right ... :) Oct 31 09:54:16 what is sth? Oct 31 09:54:37 something ... Oct 31 09:54:59 huh? I'm confused Oct 31 09:55:24 oh.. sth is some kind of shorthand for "something" cripes. thats horrible. Oct 31 09:55:41 the point: i must have wrote some lines of code using GPS stuff I didn't really understand :) Oct 31 09:56:50 did your app have anything to do with plotting the flight path/pattern of the bird? or projecting itss location at a specific time in the past or future? Oct 31 09:57:23 bope Oct 31 09:57:25 no Oct 31 09:57:56 then, you probably still didn't have to worry about how GPS actually works :) Oct 31 09:58:23 good to know Oct 31 09:59:38 and keep in mind, agps loses a lot of it's benefit, if you use your gps often. it really only helps from a cold start, when you've never locked onto a sat before, or.. an extended period of time has passed since the last lock (the term "extended" is relative to your device) Oct 31 10:00:36 you won't believe it. but i already knew that ... Oct 31 10:01:57 hi, i'm doing some http-connections in the background..what i get is "Application not responding" warning, how can i avoid that? Oct 31 10:02:21 use a thread Oct 31 10:02:32 from your service Oct 31 10:03:46 and how do i "wait" for that thread to finish? Oct 31 10:03:51 by using callbacks? Oct 31 10:03:52 muthu: Do you have a G1 right now ? Oct 31 10:04:01 anno^da_: nope Oct 31 10:04:05 ascii__: yep Oct 31 10:04:09 sweet, thanks.. Oct 31 10:04:28 waiting for a g1 to land in my hands Oct 31 10:04:31 not sure when.. Oct 31 10:07:27 hey, did anyone of you buy a G1 at ebay? they got unlocked ones in there... Oct 31 10:08:13 can't find anyone to ship india Oct 31 10:08:15 ah great muthu. :-) Oct 31 10:08:33 Oh well I could buy one and ship it to India but that could be expensive :/ Oct 31 10:08:38 jpalmer, I dug a little more and.. well.. yeah, your word wins:) It's just about getting the ephemeris data to the phone faster than it would take to receive the navigation message from the bird. respect++ for you :) Oct 31 10:08:54 Buying in Germany means a lot of taxes when I import it from the US :/ Oct 31 10:09:05 anno^da_: yep, i've asked someone to bring Oct 31 10:09:13 ah great. Oct 31 10:09:22 yeah, it works out cheap :) Oct 31 10:09:42 thats great Oct 31 10:10:00 I hope that I can get one very cheap on Sunday Oct 31 10:10:11 without the import taxes :) Oct 31 10:10:16 cool Oct 31 10:10:27 and unlocked Oct 31 10:10:32 wow, great Oct 31 10:10:47 Lets hope that it works. :-) Oct 31 10:10:58 it should Oct 31 10:11:00 I'd like to get one shipped to Hong Kong please :) Oct 31 10:11:28 hehe :) Oct 31 10:11:59 send one unlocked one to Estonia as well :P Oct 31 10:12:04 haven't checked the black markets.. Oct 31 10:12:10 though we usually have everything first ... we don't get the G1 over here. that's really frustrating ... Oct 31 10:12:10 prolly must be here already ;) Oct 31 10:12:29 prolly? Oct 31 10:12:47 oh sorry.. probabaly Oct 31 10:12:57 s/a/ Oct 31 10:13:07 probably Oct 31 10:13:11 ha there it is Oct 31 10:14:27 does anyone know how it works if you surf a website, see a nice image and you want to put it as your phone background? Oct 31 10:15:12 on my blackberry i just go to the menu and say "save image -> tick the set as home screen background". is there anything like this in the G1 browser as well? Oct 31 10:15:25 Couldn't do that with the simulator :( Oct 31 10:15:57 you can Oct 31 10:16:22 is it as easy as on the bb? Oct 31 10:16:31 you long press the image Oct 31 10:16:34 click Save Image Oct 31 10:16:37 then you go in Home Oct 31 10:16:42 Menu > Wallpaper > Pictures Oct 31 10:16:45 and there you go Oct 31 10:16:57 or after download you open the image Oct 31 10:16:59 you mean with the simulator? Oct 31 10:17:06 then Menu > Set As > Wallpaper Oct 31 10:17:14 on the actual device Oct 31 10:17:19 and that should work on the emulator too Oct 31 10:17:44 let me try that quickly :) Oct 31 10:17:53 just tried it on my G1 :) Oct 31 10:18:48 great! that's all I needed to know :) Oct 31 10:18:57 thanks a lot Oct 31 10:19:17 anytime Oct 31 10:19:17 there should be a 'set as wallpaper' right on the image menu Oct 31 10:19:25 muthu: file a bug Oct 31 10:19:36 ha, let me file a patch ;) Oct 31 10:19:43 hehe Oct 31 10:19:49 sure go ahead Oct 31 10:20:02 as long as you do everything that needs to be done to support this feature :) Oct 31 10:20:02 fixed the alertdialog bug Oct 31 10:20:09 what was the issue? Oct 31 10:20:26 bindview was not setting state.. Oct 31 10:20:38 the code is a bit ugly.. Oct 31 10:20:53 someone's calling bindview from newview Oct 31 10:20:58 er Oct 31 10:21:00 yeah so? Oct 31 10:21:31 and only setting state in new view Oct 31 10:22:17 http://review.source.android.com/1650 Oct 31 10:22:23 yeah I'm reading it Oct 31 10:22:35 there's an improvement you could make Oct 31 10:22:40 yeah i know Oct 31 10:22:44 which one? Oct 31 10:22:50 didn't want to do too many things.. Oct 31 10:23:20 so kept it simple Oct 31 10:23:31 what are the other improvements you had in mind? Oct 31 10:23:52 the same improvements that you have in your mind ;) Oct 31 10:23:57 ... Oct 31 10:23:59 haha Oct 31 10:24:07 ok bindview could directly work with view Oct 31 10:24:14 newview can getrid of bind view call Oct 31 10:24:18 and on and on.. Oct 31 10:25:04 the original code looks like a quick hack Oct 31 10:25:50 yeah, it's called shipping in time :) Oct 31 10:26:04 lol Oct 31 10:26:09 nice.. we got sourcecode now Oct 31 10:26:25 er yes Oct 31 10:26:51 i'll rather take an early release, than a perfect release :) Oct 31 10:28:45 ok I have a patch with all the optimizations for this adapter Oct 31 10:28:49 thanks for pointing to it Oct 31 10:28:53 it does suck indeed Oct 31 10:28:58 yep Oct 31 10:33:43 Tauno: yeah. too bad this is surrounded by such confusion. it could help a lot of people with weaker/slower devices Oct 31 10:34:58 romainguy: When something gets marked as LGTM in the source review, does that mean it's been tested or simple reviewed by sight? Oct 31 10:35:33 so how's the device so far? Oct 31 10:35:36 premature..? Oct 31 10:35:44 amateur feeling? Oct 31 10:35:50 sidekick like ..? Oct 31 10:36:22 Dialekt: HTC makes a quality product. I'd expect no less on the g1 / dream. Oct 31 10:36:30 romainguy: FYI: alright, I just tried the "save image" in the emulator. it is there but it does not work because it wants to save the file on the SD card which is not present. Anyway, thanks for the tip :) Oct 31 10:36:33 u'd expect? Oct 31 10:36:36 but do you own? Oct 31 10:36:49 you know what else sucks? wanting to port an app from j2me as a "straight port" to Android, then realizing that you have to change a few things here and there and then somewhere else etc till you have an app that's part Android part j2me that you have to "ship in time" but you know the app is crap, it will not integrate nicely with the system and everybody is mocking it after you release... Oct 31 10:36:50 own? no. touched, yes. Oct 31 10:36:51 ...it.. the only good thing is that nobody will know that I had any part in this :P Oct 31 10:37:51 well.. Oct 31 10:37:54 i held one Oct 31 10:38:02 interface felt really smooth Oct 31 10:38:07 made me wanna jump ship to t-mobile agian Oct 31 10:38:24 t-mobile stopped being on the bleeding edge 2 years ago though..so i'm a bit skeptical Oct 31 10:39:13 bleeding edge is great for a lot of things. something mission critical like my cellular provider? no thanks. tried and true for me. Oct 31 10:41:49 I know a puppet maker that is called "bleeding edge" :) Oct 31 10:55:16 does anybody know how often gmail is sync'd and is it possible to change the period like you can in the email application? Oct 31 10:56:04 it's a push from the server, so the client doesn't control it. Oct 31 10:56:57 oh right, sweet Oct 31 10:57:09 just trying to save battery life as much as possible :) Oct 31 10:58:57 the push mechanism has little impact on battery life if there's little activity on that account. If you have an account with a lot of activity, you can disable sync for times when you're not using the phone. On the gmail front, you can control quite precisely what gets synced by using gmail filters. Oct 31 11:01:21 yeah, that's really neat :) Oct 31 11:01:50 do the calander and contacts also work on a push? Oct 31 11:01:55 yes Oct 31 11:02:30 jbq_ how does the push technically work? Oct 31 11:02:31 In the settings, you can control them individually, so you could decide to keep calendar synced but not the others. Oct 31 11:03:15 Tauno: the client keeps a socket open to the server, blocked waiting for data from the server. Oct 31 11:03:57 understood, that's what I'm doing also.. Was just wondering if server initiated connections are somehow possible :) Oct 31 11:04:15 In TCP, once the socket has been established, there's no fundamental different between both ends. NAT means that only the client can initiate the connection, but after that it's just the same. Oct 31 11:04:36 No, don't count on server-initiated connections, especially not from a server on the internet. Oct 31 11:04:56 sure but isn't there overhead (data/battery) of keeping the tcp connection alive? Oct 31 11:05:42 there is a little overhead from the necessity of periodically generating *some* traffic, so various proxies, load balancers, etc don't forget about you Oct 31 11:06:33 so it's not entirely free, but generally works out to be cheaper than setting up a new connection every X units of time to poll, if you want updates that are in any way timely Oct 31 11:07:00 It depends a lot on how often you lose your connection and have to re-establish it. For a device that doesn't move a lot and stays with the same tower all the time, you still have days of battery life. If you're going in and out of dead zones all the time it can be costly. Oct 31 11:07:13 also true Oct 31 11:09:02 oh, ok, that's great :) I was just wondering if I had to implement something like a) is my app has foreground, then keep the socket open b) if app has no foreground then open a connection every xxx seconds to check if there's something new on the server. Oct 31 11:10:01 new connection every few seconds = battery dead in a few hours. Oct 31 11:10:34 well the seconds were more in the 1-3 minute range :) Oct 31 11:10:55 you might last a day or 2 at most just doing the pings. Oct 31 11:10:57 wifi kills the battery pretty quickly too Oct 31 11:11:21 ok, so I'll go with the always on connection then. Oct 31 11:11:31 though it seems to disable wifi and drop back to 3G/GPRS when it goes into standby which is pretty neat Oct 31 11:12:06 If I remember correctly, bringing the network up to do an actual data transfer costs about 0.1% of the battery (very rough order of magnitude). Oct 31 11:13:04 start with a phone that can do 8 days on idle, ping a server every 15 minutes (and do nothing else at all), and your battery life is about 4 days. Oct 31 11:14:15 I'm getting a day's use at best at the moment out of the G1 Oct 31 11:14:43 if I have an active tcp connection that blocks and waits for data, and the phone suspends and drops wifi and falls back to gprs then how will this affect my tcp connection? Oct 31 11:15:11 You'll get an IOException (or something equivalent) and you'll have to create a new one. Oct 31 11:18:15 that's logical :/ is there a way that I can force the use of gprs? I mean.. if the user is in a hotspot area but i still want my app to use gprs (so the connection does not drop when the phone goes idle)? Oct 31 11:19:35 There is a way (MMS uses it), but it's really only a good idea if you use a protocol which can't possibly be used over wifi (and that shouldn't be your case, plus it'll make your users unhappy when they're in wifi-only situations). Oct 31 11:19:49 with regards to IM on android, all the information I've seen says the IM client can connect to msn, aim etc etc as well as google talk, yet I can't see any option to add other accounts.... anyone know? Oct 31 11:20:12 I think IM got neutered partially Oct 31 11:20:17 not enough dev time Oct 31 11:20:34 I also read something about it using text messages which seems a bit backward Oct 31 11:21:42 mmm, sorry, maybe is a FAQ, but if I add an "application" class on an android application (a class that extends android.app.Application ) this class will be the entry point of the application ? Oct 31 11:21:50 andatche: IM as it ships in the G1 is hard-coded to those account types. Oct 31 11:22:50 andreaf: there's not really a single entry point, since everything is based on callbacks. this'll just let you use another callback (the application's onCreate if I remember correctly) Oct 31 11:23:45 jbq_: the only type it has is google talk, yet even in the information that came with the phone, it says it supports other protocols Oct 31 11:24:03 jbq_, so I have to choose between unhappy users1(the ones who happen to be in a wifi only area) or unhappy users2(the ones who switch between wifi/gprs frequently, leading to my app reconnecting all the time and reducing battery) - I think I'm going for unhappy users2 then, since they can't direclty see that my app is the battery drainer:P ..just kidding.. I think I have to let the user... Oct 31 11:24:04 ...choose the behaviour from my app settings Oct 31 11:24:11 ok, the application class on create is the entry point. but then how the Application class knows the first view to show ? how it choices the right view ? Oct 31 11:24:51 you can't do that from the application. You do that when one of your activities is created. Oct 31 11:25:26 in the AndrodManifest.xml Oct 31 11:25:52 the applicationclass is quite useless or not ? Oct 31 11:26:16 It's useful to keep track of information that's not tied to a specific activity. Oct 31 11:26:26 (but you can often do entirely without it) Oct 31 11:26:34 understood. thanks Oct 31 11:30:08 more general question... if I was going to ship my own IM app, what are the possibilities of integrating it with the system? I know you can add IM accounts to your contacts (the shipped Contacts app) but the contact app is broken and does not generate Intents for some of the types so I can't catch the event when the user clicks on the contact. Is there any other way? (are some other apps... Oct 31 11:30:10 ...using presence information etc? If yes, then how should my app publish it?) Oct 31 11:31:29 Tauno: Sorry I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a bit more rigid in 1.0 than we'd like it to be, and if you had to roll out your own solution for now. Oct 31 11:32:08 It'd be sweet to be able to add account types to the existing IM apps, and to have that integrate well with contacts. Oct 31 11:34:17 if only http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=981 was fixed - it would be a good start if the user could just launch the right IM application by clicking on the IM option in Contacts app :) Oct 31 11:35:23 and it would be nice if you open the contact info and you see the presence status behind every IM entry the contact has :) Oct 31 11:35:45 I'm sure we'll come to it at some point (and we'll gladly accept contributions to fix it). Oct 31 11:37:17 Am I right in understanding that: if a thread waits, the cpu could very well sleep during that wait and therefore not resume the thread until something else say an alarm, wakes the cpu? Oct 31 11:37:27 yes. Oct 31 11:37:46 I'm going to have to be careful Oct 31 11:38:14 Thread.sleep() (and most time-based functions except the alarm manager) count in CPU time, i.e. for them time stops when the CPU stops. Oct 31 11:38:27 Yes, that's what I thought Oct 31 11:38:29 (and if the CPU doesn't stop almost all the time battery life is measured in hours) Oct 31 11:38:49 There are presumably wait statements stashed behind lots the standard java libs Oct 31 11:39:09 does the periodic email checking in the mail application stop when the phone is in standby? Oct 31 11:39:33 I don't know. Someone could look it up in the source code. Oct 31 11:39:34 sometimes it seems to pick up mail and othertimes not Oct 31 11:40:06 though I'm guessing it could be related to what tomgibara just mentioned Oct 31 11:41:13 regarding that - If I block on a socket.read() and the CPU goes to sleep.. then what will happen if something comes in from the network? the CPU awakes and my code gets executed automatically? Oct 31 11:41:17 jbq_: This is a bit of a newbie question, but can the cpu go to sleep while my thread is running? Oct 31 11:41:57 Tauno: the CPU wakes up momentarily when there's some network activity (enough that you can grab a wake lock from the power manager and keep the CPU on for longer). Oct 31 11:42:29 Tauno: yes, the CPU can go to sleep while your thread is running, except if you hold a wake lock. Oct 31 11:42:47 uh, that was for tomgibara sorry Oct 31 11:43:00 * jbq_ should sleep Oct 31 11:43:10 jbq_: Thanks, that's what I thought. Oct 31 11:43:40 so it is possible that email isn't checked until something else wakes the cpu? Oct 31 11:44:45 jbq_ err.. huh? if I have a blocking inputStream.read() and something comes in, then the next line is executed and I should grab a wake lock there? Oct 31 11:45:12 If that's the way the Email app is written, yes, it's theoretically possible. I didn't work on that app (or even look at its design or at its source code), so I have no idea whether what you're observing is intentional behavior or not. Oct 31 11:45:54 jbq_: cheers Oct 31 11:46:34 andatche: Having just received my phone, and in testing a small app I've written, it's definitely possible to have a bug like that :) Oct 31 11:47:51 it seems to be the case, sometimes it does seem to get the emails though, so I imagine that is when something else has awoken the cpu Oct 31 11:51:49 hmm, just tested sending myself an sms from another phone, shortly after the sms notification the email one arrived Oct 31 11:54:00 jbq_, if that's the case then I'd have to request a wake lock every time something is coming in from the net, and then release it after my app is done generating a response to it? Oct 31 11:54:10 Tauno: yes Oct 31 11:54:15 ah, nice, the -qemu bug is fixed in current git. Oct 31 11:54:28 as well as the missing setting Oct 31 11:58:26 jbq_ I hope that won't slow things down as I may have stuff coming in quite frequently :) Oct 31 11:58:56 Tauno: it'll hurt battery life, that's all. Oct 31 12:01:29 Oversimplifying, there are 4 things on the phone that use battery power: CPU, screen, cell radio, wifi. Leave any of those on continuously and you have a few hours of battery life. Oct 31 12:02:03 well I guess I have to live with it then since I have to deliver notifications to the user even when he leaves his phone sitting on the desk for an hour :) Oct 31 12:02:05 Really, the way a phone can last a week on such a tiny battery is by shutting itself down all the time. Oct 31 12:02:20 What I don't understand is, does anything guarantee that the the wake lock will be obtained before the CPU decides to sleep again? Oct 31 12:03:07 * tomgibara is determined to write a power efficient app Oct 31 12:03:30 tomgibara: I have a notion in the back of my mind that there might be a 30-second window to grab the wake lock, but I might be wrong. Oct 31 12:03:48 (after some network activity, that is). Oct 31 12:03:54 Well that would be a long long time Oct 31 12:04:06 I was thinking in terms of milliseconds Oct 31 12:04:40 30 seconds? I need only a few seconds to parse network data and do something meaningful :) Oct 31 12:04:42 The CPU can still go to sleep when idle while a wake lock is held - it just doesn't go to the deepest sleep where it has to entirely reboot. Oct 31 12:05:02 jbq_: I understand Oct 31 12:05:44 This matches the behaviour I'm seeing in my app anyway. Oct 31 12:05:52 So, holding a wake lock for a few extra seconds doesn't have a huge impact on battery life. Just don't hold it for hours. Oct 31 12:06:22 BTW, I'm not an expert in that domain, and there's a huge chance that I might be wrong. You've been warned. Oct 31 12:06:30 if I need only a few seconds after read() returns then I don't have to use a wake lock at all? (because the cpu will awake for 30 secs anyway?) :) Oct 31 12:06:41 (I didn't even write the code that deals with wake locks in my apps, someone else did that for me). Oct 31 12:07:33 jbq_: Thanks, that's useful information, especially if I can get it corrobroated :) Oct 31 12:07:36 Tauno: you should have a wake lock in that case. Oct 31 12:07:56 why so? Oct 31 12:08:14 Tauno: it can only help. There's no guarantee on the 30-second part. Oct 31 12:08:59 Worst case, the CPU is already aware, and it doesn't cost anything. Best case, you're the only one with a wake lock, your code gets to run, and the CPU goes back to sleep as soon as you're done. Oct 31 12:09:11 Seems like a win-win situation to me. Oct 31 12:09:21 HI Oct 31 12:09:35 so many problems? Oct 31 12:09:44 ok, thanks jbq_ :) Oct 31 12:09:55 is this a dev channel only? Oct 31 12:10:06 anyone actually happy using the g1 stock out of the box? Oct 31 12:10:40 dialekt: how else can you use it? Oct 31 12:10:52 hell if i know Oct 31 12:10:57 heh Oct 31 12:11:00 didn't know if you guys were modifying anything Oct 31 12:11:02 lol Oct 31 12:11:06 it sounds all sketchy in here Oct 31 12:11:14 like app talk etc Oct 31 12:15:31 when i use an intent to call a sub-activity, i want to transfer a object back, but it only lets me transfer primitive types, any solution to this? Oct 31 12:16:20 wtf are u even talking about? Oct 31 12:16:22 straight up man Oct 31 12:16:31 like what language are you speaking? Oct 31 12:16:36 or everyone in here Oct 31 12:16:40 is it dev chat? Oct 31 12:16:42 hehe Oct 31 12:16:44 * Dialekt is lost Oct 31 12:16:45 yes Oct 31 12:16:56 he's making perfect sense to me Oct 31 12:17:09 i can't see whats wrong with that sentence.. Oct 31 12:17:12 but i don't have an answer to his question Oct 31 12:17:23 i found out though...i can use parcelable.. Oct 31 12:17:29 i think.. Oct 31 12:17:45 oh i see Oct 31 12:17:55 anyone wanna chat consumer talk? Oct 31 12:18:02 or hofo'r style talk? Oct 31 12:18:03 lol Oct 31 12:18:10 im really interested in a g1 Oct 31 12:18:22 but intimidated to jump ship for it Oct 31 12:18:29 Dialekt: i think thats over in #android-bs Oct 31 12:18:33 as im still interested in verizon's blackberry storm Oct 31 12:18:39 grr Dougiester Oct 31 12:20:12 what type of consumer talk are you looking for? Oct 31 12:20:46 hah .. Zazzle just added embroidery Oct 31 12:21:33 DJTachyon_: no offense... but wouldn't you rather do something... respectable to make some money? Oct 31 12:22:10 *cough* Oct 31 12:22:20 like create free android applications? :P Oct 31 12:22:26 well.. not free ones. Oct 31 12:22:31 create ones that cost money to use. Oct 31 12:23:25 well sure .. but since it is all quite high level and the applications I want don't currently have the low-level audio API calls, I just got a VM of Kubuntu up and running so I can see if I can manage to add the necessary calls I need for my app Oct 31 12:23:45 I got the repo and got it to build Oct 31 12:24:30 Not to mention i specialize in embedded procedural C for DSPs and HDL for CPLDs & FPGAs .. so these higher level languages are taking a bit of getting used to Oct 31 12:24:36 what kinda apps are you looking to write? Oct 31 12:24:42 or is it a trade secret? Oct 31 12:24:52 guess by my screenname Oct 31 12:25:09 something involving music? Oct 31 12:25:12 indeed Oct 31 12:25:31 and what ever tachyon is? Oct 31 12:25:36 DJ: do you work a lot with AVRs? Oct 31 12:26:03 Dougie: just about the device itself Oct 31 12:26:06 nah .. motor control actually Oct 31 12:26:08 maybe in comparison to other ones Oct 31 12:26:12 Dialekt: do you have any questions? Oct 31 12:26:13 that are commonly used Oct 31 12:26:15 in particular? Oct 31 12:26:16 ahh Oct 31 12:26:28 TI DSPs, Xilinx programmable logic, etc Oct 31 12:26:28 I want to get into AVR prgramming Oct 31 12:26:32 well anyone come from another smartphone and happy with the switch? Oct 31 12:26:42 i am Oct 31 12:26:46 ie: blackberry, iphone 3G, nokia N/E-series? Oct 31 12:26:54 DJ: why? Oct 31 12:26:56 windows moto q Oct 31 12:26:58 :P Oct 31 12:27:06 oh easy switch Oct 31 12:27:06 heh Oct 31 12:27:10 yup Oct 31 12:27:15 hmm. Oct 31 12:27:24 Dialekt: i don't think anyone has come from an iphone yet... Oct 31 12:27:27 the native im app uses sms or data? Oct 31 12:27:34 sms Oct 31 12:27:43 it count's as messaging. Oct 31 12:27:45 Dougie: an iphone still shouldn't be considered a smartphone as of yet Oct 31 12:27:46 same with the email app Oct 31 12:27:54 you said iphone. Oct 31 12:27:55 advanced dumbphone more like it Oct 31 12:27:57 so i was just commenting on that. Oct 31 12:28:00 yes i did Oct 31 12:28:05 heh Oct 31 12:28:10 so i was correcting myself Oct 31 12:28:14 hmm.. Oct 31 12:28:18 email uses sms?! Oct 31 12:28:23 why? Oct 31 12:28:26 or better yet how> Oct 31 12:28:27 i don't know if it uses sms, but it counts as messaging. Oct 31 12:28:33 oh yeah Oct 31 12:28:34 i see Oct 31 12:28:35 does it?? Oct 31 12:28:41 i believe it counts as data Oct 31 12:28:43 gmail does or imap/pop does? Oct 31 12:28:49 in reference to whatever data plan you are using Oct 31 12:28:53 DJTachyon_: afaik. it says on their site email and im's count towards your messaging limit Oct 31 12:29:00 wtf Oct 31 12:29:04 thats absurd Oct 31 12:29:11 surely email isn't actually implemented via sms though? Oct 31 12:29:12 not really Oct 31 12:29:16 its not a real im client then Oct 31 12:29:21 its the stock one that comes with the device Oct 31 12:29:23 andatche: i doubt it. Oct 31 12:29:23 nope Oct 31 12:29:29 a lot of devices use that Oct 31 12:29:29 lol Oct 31 12:29:39 I think the plans in the US/UK are pretty different Oct 31 12:29:43 ill go check my account Oct 31 12:29:50 will have to look into the specifics of my contract Oct 31 12:29:53 Dialekt: yeah they count it somehow through a proprietary gateway. Oct 31 12:30:03 yup Oct 31 12:30:10 hmm.. Oct 31 12:30:21 its only with those apps afaik. like if someone ports pidgin, then that shouldn't count Oct 31 12:30:23 the device i felt for a brief second had a smooth interface Oct 31 12:30:26 that would be data instead Oct 31 12:31:07 i have android mounted, but I can't figure out which dir Pictures are supposed to go in Oct 31 12:31:09 okay Oct 31 12:31:16 it says ive only used 58 messages Oct 31 12:31:19 Kept getting "No pictures found" any ideas? Oct 31 12:31:21 so gmail does count towards it Oct 31 12:31:22 hendry: can't you just put them on the sd card? Oct 31 12:31:37 DJTachyon_: afaik. Oct 31 12:31:44 If GMAIL counted towards the limit I would be over 100 already :P Oct 31 12:31:47 Dougie187: that's what I've done. To Pictures and dcim/ Oct 31 12:32:03 but i have sent a bunch of text message and a couple IM's Oct 31 12:32:13 i dont have pop/imap setup so i can judge that Oct 31 12:32:23 setup your gmail on your imap as well. Oct 31 12:32:25 then test with the two Oct 31 12:33:08 meh Oct 31 12:33:16 god Oct 31 12:33:20 bah .. zazzle charges for emroidery design conversion? Oct 31 12:33:23 ok so.. Oct 31 12:33:33 for sms ..do you guys get a preview sms pop up somewhere? Oct 31 12:33:42 or scroll on the top preview like the sidekick Oct 31 12:33:43 heh Oct 31 12:33:53 DJTachyon_: here. this is from the $25 G1 Data Plan "Includes Unlimited Web access and 400 domestic text, picture, e-mail, or instant messages" Oct 31 12:33:58 or do u just get an envelope piece of crap? Oct 31 12:34:01 yeah dialekt .. in the top Oct 31 12:34:15 Dialekt: have you tried the SDK? Oct 31 12:34:15 Dialekt, in the notification area on the top, breifly shows a one line preview Oct 31 12:34:16 NICE Oct 31 12:34:21 no i wish i could Oct 31 12:34:22 i'm o mac Oct 31 12:34:29 it has a mac version.... Oct 31 12:34:29 dougie: well that must not include gmail Oct 31 12:34:29 ah, don't think email/IMs are counted on UK plans, not that it matters as I have a plan with unlimited messaging anyway Oct 31 12:34:30 tweakt: that's awesome.. Oct 31 12:34:33 really WHERE?! Oct 31 12:34:42 Mac Linux and Windows Oct 31 12:34:56 http://code.google.com/android/download.html Oct 31 12:35:13 i really love this chan Oct 31 12:35:13 now Oct 31 12:35:15 i guess unless your on a PPC mac. Oct 31 12:35:30 you can even get the source and compile that. Oct 31 12:35:43 so i can play with a g1 right now basically? Oct 31 12:35:46 how awesome is that?! Oct 31 12:35:46 hehe Oct 31 12:35:50 i think it comes with an emulator so you can see what the phone has (minus some non-open sourced apps) Oct 31 12:35:53 or at least gain an idea out of it Oct 31 12:36:06 Dialekt: no.. its not as full featured as the G1. its just an sdk, but its a basic idea of android.. Oct 31 12:36:31 hmm Oct 31 12:36:54 no fair .. all the embroidery clothes are cooler than the other clothes on zazzle .. but it costs $35 to convert a freakin android image Oct 31 12:36:54 i wonder does the gmail contacts leave improper fields or missing fields etc/? Oct 31 12:36:55 the compiled source would be closer to the G1 then the SDK Oct 31 12:36:59 gets you a very close idea of the UI, just not all the extra hardware features (camera, motion sensors, wifi, etc) Oct 31 12:37:26 im so scared to sync with google Oct 31 12:37:31 when i should cause i use it every day Oct 31 12:37:39 but what handles contacts specifically? Oct 31 12:37:43 each email address? Oct 31 12:37:47 or a seperate google app? Oct 31 12:37:49 what? Oct 31 12:37:52 Dialekt, do you use gmail? Oct 31 12:38:02 yes but i have 4 email addresses Oct 31 12:38:03 oh i don't know how they are handled on the phone, but they are synced with the cloud afaik. Oct 31 12:38:06 that i use on a daily basis Oct 31 12:38:06 i don' Oct 31 12:38:20 Dialekt: i know, you can't add more than one gmail address to the gmail app on your phone right now though. Oct 31 12:38:45 you can add the other addresses into you're email app. Oct 31 12:39:05 but i don't think the contacts are synced as you would hope, but i am not sure about that as I do not have a G1 Oct 31 12:39:52 hmm.. Oct 31 12:40:04 i use all addresses fairly equally Oct 31 12:40:09 bahahaha Oct 31 12:40:10 always have them setup on each of my phones Oct 31 12:40:20 as i have a blackberry curve and an iphone right now Oct 31 12:40:21 contacts are synced Oct 31 12:40:33 tweakt: with the email app too? or just the gmail app? Oct 31 12:40:35 $620 to convert a Bugdroid image to a 10" high embroidery pattern Oct 31 12:40:36 synched but if the contacts are in all email addresses how would that work out? Oct 31 12:40:37 between gmail and your phone Oct 31 12:40:47 oh Oct 31 12:40:48 tweakt: but only the default gmail account you add to your phone. Oct 31 12:41:01 so whichever email address is default and filled with contacts? Oct 31 12:41:05 DJTachyon_, there are less expensive embroidery conversion shops in nyc Oct 31 12:41:07 tweakt: so basically, you can only sync your contacts with one gmail account. Oct 31 12:41:13 Dougie187, but isn't that the same "Content List" content provider used by other apps? Oct 31 12:41:32 Oh... yes, I see, not sure how you could use multiple gmail accounts Oct 31 12:41:45 *"Contact List"* srt Oct 31 12:42:01 tweakt: i have no idea. im just talking by what i have heard, and have never messed with it. but i know if you want to use multiple gmail account, you would add the other ones into the email app instead of the gmail app, but your contacts are not synced afaik. Oct 31 12:42:15 you could always be retarded and forward ? Oct 31 12:42:24 lol be retarded? Oct 31 12:42:44 I'd be curious if you get the same "send as" options as you get in the web based gmail. Oct 31 12:43:18 Dialekt, I do that, but you want to send as an alias (ie reply with another From address, it does put gmail into the label of the from address) Oct 31 12:43:28 just so you know, some people don't like that Oct 31 12:43:46 If it's for business for example... Oct 31 12:44:04 tweakt: if you have other "From addresses" in your web based gmail, do you get them on the G1 gmail app as "from address" options? Oct 31 12:44:10 I tried using gmail in the e-mail app (not gmail app).. it auto configures for imap, and it's buggy. While I was *composing* messages it was sending them, so the recipient was getting partially composed messaged.. 8 of them Oct 31 12:44:17 I haven't checked... hang on Oct 31 12:44:53 really? that's a nice mess in this case :( Oct 31 12:45:05 I guess I can try composing a message without putting in the recipient until I'm finished Oct 31 12:45:08 Compose options: send, add cc/bcc, attach, edit subject, discard Oct 31 12:45:28 doesn't seem like it Oct 31 12:45:38 tweakt: so you can't change the from address then... do you have multiple addresses tied to that gmail account? Oct 31 12:46:21 I do, so if emailing from my G1, I have to send as the primary Oct 31 12:46:21 Dougie187, you can change the from address. You set up another account, in the email app, and select it as "send from this address" as default Oct 31 12:46:37 languish: not in the email app, in the gmail app. Oct 31 12:46:44 ahh in the gmail app, no. Oct 31 12:47:06 thats disappointing. i would have though they would have let you do that. Oct 31 12:47:21 lemme see if i can with the gmail 2.0 app Oct 31 12:48:17 man, my phone sucks. Oct 31 12:48:18 lol Oct 31 12:48:20 If they could fit the option, it should be on compose: add a From field, which is a select list, prefilled with your verified from addresses in Gmail Oct 31 12:48:32 yeah. Oct 31 12:49:05 i wouldn't think it would be too difficult to add. Oct 31 12:49:57 I can't change it on my phone either though Oct 31 12:53:25 booo Oct 31 12:53:30 jar file could not be launched Oct 31 12:53:37 do i need something else for the sdk on my mac? Oct 31 12:53:46 just tested sending IMs and email from the phone then checking my used stuff online, doesn't look like they count as messages in the UK Oct 31 12:54:09 Dialekt: run android-sdk/tools/emulator Oct 31 12:54:28 andatche: check their website for the plan info. Oct 31 12:54:46 process completed] Oct 31 12:55:20 Dialekt: emulator should start up the sdk emulator for you. You should see something like a phone with android running on it. Oct 31 12:55:35 "Cannot create data directory" Oct 31 12:55:49 "Please specify a writable directory with -datadir. Oct 31 12:55:50 " Oct 31 12:55:52 huh? Oct 31 12:55:53 did you do this? Oct 31 12:55:56 export PATH=${PATH}:/tools Oct 31 12:56:49 how you guys like this? Oct 31 12:56:50 http://lh5.ggpht.com/_v0crfm_LzqE/SQsARRqEX4I/AAAAAAAAAzE/M0Xlb0HRmr4/AndroidStitchModel.jpg Oct 31 12:57:12 dougie187 Oct 31 12:57:13 now Oct 31 12:58:06 no i meant Oct 31 12:58:20 man i dont even know how to identify paths on a mac Oct 31 12:58:22 jesus Oct 31 12:58:31 here are the instructions. Oct 31 12:58:32 http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html Oct 31 12:58:35 http://lh6.ggpht.com/_v0crfm_LzqE/SQsA7TSBv2I/AAAAAAAAAzM/kauk-gurbkc/s128/CloseUpStitchModel.jpg Oct 31 12:58:37 im using that Oct 31 12:58:43 no feedback? ;P Oct 31 12:59:03 after that, you should be able to just type "emulator" Oct 31 12:59:26 DJTachyon_: thats a nice looking shirt. Oct 31 12:59:44 I have to pay $30 to convert the design to embroidery Oct 31 12:59:57 is that a good size for the bugdroid? Oct 31 13:00:07 "On a Mac, look in your home directory for .bash_profile and proceed as for Linux. You can create the .bash_profile, if you haven't already set one up on your machine." Oct 31 13:00:12 ive never set up a bash profile Oct 31 13:00:16 1.7" x 2.1" Oct 31 13:00:16 how in the name do you do that? Oct 31 13:00:17 I would look for something more nerdcore :P Oct 31 13:00:23 why is this so difficult? Oct 31 13:00:28 Dialekt: type "echo $SHELL" Oct 31 13:00:37 see if you are using bash Oct 31 13:01:01 says bin/bash Oct 31 13:01:04 ok Oct 31 13:01:19 do you use vim? Oct 31 13:01:27 im a normal consumer Oct 31 13:01:28 yeah, build on debian amd64 without chroot works, nice, finally i can start developing again. Oct 31 13:01:29 with no clue Oct 31 13:01:32 as to anything Oct 31 13:01:35 lol Oct 31 13:01:42 especially not a mac Oct 31 13:01:45 how do you write files? Oct 31 13:01:48 only 1 year on the mac Oct 31 13:01:50 lol why do you have a mac then? Oct 31 13:01:52 how do i write files? Oct 31 13:01:54 i don't Oct 31 13:01:57 yeah, what do you use to write files? Oct 31 13:02:05 write files? Oct 31 13:02:06 Any word on 16GB SHDC yet? I know they are due out soon, right? Oct 31 13:02:11 ... Oct 31 13:02:14 i use the internal hard drive Oct 31 13:02:16 i guess Oct 31 13:02:18 when you have a text file to write. how do you write it? Oct 31 13:02:19 ? Oct 31 13:02:24 sorry, mean MicroSDHC Oct 31 13:02:25 oh. Oct 31 13:02:31 i just save as blablabal .txt Oct 31 13:02:34 in text edit Oct 31 13:02:40 or use microsoft 2008 for mac Oct 31 13:02:42 :(? Oct 31 13:02:53 open text edit then. Oct 31 13:03:02 and name the file .bash_profile Oct 31 13:03:04 or open that file Oct 31 13:03:08 it should be there i would think. Oct 31 13:04:06 says it will save as a system file Oct 31 13:04:07 ma Oct 31 13:04:12 ok Oct 31 13:04:26 this is frustrating ...sorry but this is way beyond drag n drop Oct 31 13:04:31 or hell even normal installation Oct 31 13:04:32 heh Oct 31 13:04:43 hope android doesn't install apps this way Oct 31 13:04:44 lol Oct 31 13:04:56 you are playing with the sdk, not android. Oct 31 13:05:18 well trying to play with the sdk Oct 31 13:05:21 is this computers 101? Oct 31 13:05:24 im not looking for development Oct 31 13:05:35 i just wanted to see how the actual android is Oct 31 13:05:41 maybe i should go to the web emulator Oct 31 13:05:43 i know, you just wanted to see what android looks like. Oct 31 13:05:43 and call it a night Oct 31 13:05:44 lol Oct 31 13:05:55 yeah exactly dougie187 Oct 31 13:05:57 Dialekt: or just go to a store Oct 31 13:06:04 but this whole command line stuff is CRAZY Oct 31 13:06:05 lol Oct 31 13:06:14 Dialekt: command line stuff is not crazy... Oct 31 13:06:15 lol Oct 31 13:06:18 dude, the sdk is for developers :) Oct 31 13:06:25 "Is your computer plugged in? Is your computer turned on? Are you using the cd-rom tray as a coffee cup holder?" Oct 31 13:06:37 the emulator isn't a try me option for end users Oct 31 13:07:19 how much do g1's retail for Oct 31 13:07:23 * Dialekt checks craigs list Oct 31 13:07:26 $1,000 Oct 31 13:07:29 with or without a contract? Oct 31 13:07:39 they retail for $400 Oct 31 13:07:40 with - $180, ~$150 from walmart. Oct 31 13:07:43 $400 w/o contract, and $180 /with Oct 31 13:07:46 without contract $400 Oct 31 13:08:09 Dialekt: you would be lucky to find one on craigslist... Oct 31 13:08:19 i wouldn't think they would be on there yet. Oct 31 13:08:25 they are everywhere on craigs Oct 31 13:08:30 Los Angeles is a nutjob city Oct 31 13:08:31 lol Oct 31 13:08:33 buy and sell Oct 31 13:08:50 thats dumb. Oct 31 13:08:59 DJTachyon_: how come your not doing that yet? Oct 31 13:08:59 lol Oct 31 13:09:33 anyhow.. Oct 31 13:09:43 how is the device out of the box gentlemen? Oct 31 13:09:46 The G1 that is Oct 31 13:09:49 how do you like it? Oct 31 13:10:01 its a phone... Oct 31 13:10:07 most people fall in love with them. Oct 31 13:10:10 and get married to them Oct 31 13:10:13 and live happily ever after. Oct 31 13:10:39 :( Oct 31 13:10:58 i've heard mostly good things about it. Oct 31 13:11:04 but you can try it out at the store too. Oct 31 13:11:06 and see how it feels. Oct 31 13:11:14 if it would be a suitable partner. Oct 31 13:11:26 its tough Oct 31 13:11:32 i usually need a day to see how it runs Oct 31 13:11:40 buying at retail would be cool Oct 31 13:11:41 well you have 14 days to return it. Oct 31 13:11:45 and having a return policy Oct 31 13:11:46 yeah Oct 31 13:11:47 exactly Oct 31 13:11:57 i wonder if im gonna be charged an arm and a leg Oct 31 13:12:05 we just told you how much it was... Oct 31 13:12:08 i remember i had a 500 deposit on my account when i was with t-mobile Oct 31 13:12:14 no i meant for credit check etc Oct 31 13:12:17 sorry Oct 31 13:12:24 i switched to at&t a year ago Oct 31 13:12:28 haven't really looked back.. Oct 31 13:12:33 i miss t-mobious Oct 31 13:12:40 but they don't call dibbs on any phones anymore Oct 31 13:12:41 i think if you have good credit you don't have to pay more then the activation and the phone price. Oct 31 13:12:43 soooooo slow on roll outs Oct 31 13:12:56 yeah but bad credit is probably still 500.00 cop out Oct 31 13:12:56 lol Oct 31 13:13:02 probably Oct 31 13:13:14 but afaik you typically get that back if you pay your bill on time for like a year or something Oct 31 13:29:18 Is there a way in plain web app to recognize a "long press"? I'd like to enhance a mobile website for android browsers a bit Oct 31 13:30:10 I wonder if it's just onMouseDown... with a timeout? Oct 31 13:31:05 it's wierd cause there's no such thing as a mouseover any more Oct 31 13:37:21 wow, interesting dialog with Dialekt Oct 31 13:37:33 did a -dev channel ever get off the ground? Oct 31 13:37:54 there is one. Oct 31 13:37:56 but noone goes to it Oct 31 13:39:11 too bad. I have to say I love my android overlord phone (in response to Dialekt's question) Oct 31 13:39:36 but then I'm not the typical end-user consumer Oct 31 13:40:02 I'm willing to put up with some quirks so that I can use ssh in the far flung reaches over gprs if needed Oct 31 13:40:47 I just wish it had a better way to utilize the expandable storage space Oct 31 13:48:02 tweakt: that's a good question, I'm curious myself now. Oct 31 13:49:43 so fyi, while i was unfarking my data plan this morning (purchased it yesterday, woke up to no data :( ..) i got them to send me the unlock code. for free. well within 90 days. Oct 31 13:50:03 they say you need a non-tmob sim to do it, so i'll prolly just bum an iphone sim off a coworker when i do it. should have the code w/in 24 hours they say. Oct 31 13:51:39 thats pretty cool Oct 31 13:51:44 was it a pain to get the code from them? Oct 31 13:53:04 or did you just ask for it, and they then send it to you Oct 31 13:53:54 yeah i noticed that Oct 31 13:54:01 when i plugged in my old att sim Oct 31 13:54:06 it asked for an unlock code Oct 31 13:54:46 Dougie187: i just asked and she looked it up (took a couple mins to get docs) and said "sure no problem" Oct 31 13:54:47 sorry, just a clarification about buttons: I have to add a View.OnClickListener for every button that I put in a view ? If i have a "ok - cancel" button I have to add 2 listener ? (according to docs) Oct 31 13:55:18 i was going to transfer contacts from my old SIM but it doesnt recognize it when it's locked i guess Oct 31 13:55:42 oyeoj: call up and get an unlock code. Oct 31 13:56:20 eh, i got them manually moved now. and i'm locked into a contract anyway Oct 31 13:56:22 Dougie187: been with tmob since 04 tho, might have had a lot to do with it (2 lines, family plan. awesome plan actually, still got free tmob-to-tmob, free nights and weekends, 400 minutes, etc for $40.) Oct 31 13:56:27 i'll call up if i need it unlocked Oct 31 13:56:32 good to know tmob arent jerks Oct 31 13:56:33 told them i might be going to london in a couple weeks Oct 31 13:56:42 oyeoj: sometimes they are. get into the smartphone/blackberry support pool Oct 31 13:56:55 my first call was a disaster, ended up in teh normal pool and she was a total bitch and a half. Oct 31 13:57:00 is there a flickr app yet? Oct 31 13:57:15 thoraxe: check the market? Oct 31 13:57:49 i wish you could check the market from the pc Oct 31 13:57:50 lol Oct 31 13:57:54 when i called up to get my number ported, the dude said i was "authorized for five lines" Oct 31 13:57:58 or something similar Oct 31 13:58:07 i dunno if that is a credit check or what Oct 31 13:58:18 it is Oct 31 13:58:43 :) Oct 31 13:59:02 sweeet Oct 31 13:59:15 clearly their models are wrong ;-) Oct 31 13:59:18 * Disconnect could save $5/mo on minimum plans and gain a couple hundred minutes, but we'd lose a ton of free times. not a win. Oct 31 13:59:54 romainguy: ping Oct 31 14:00:04 * jbq wishes he could get a G1 with 100, 60 or even 30 minutes a month. Oct 31 14:00:05 oyeoj, their models are based on lowest common denominator.. poor fold in places like kentucky that tend to have horrific credit Oct 31 14:00:10 Dougie187: there's photostream but I don't think that lets you upload photos to flickr Oct 31 14:00:30 yeah, i have no idea. Oct 31 14:01:30 thoraxe: photostream doesn't allow uploads. I already ask mr. guy Oct 31 14:01:41 kslater: is it planned? Oct 31 14:01:56 jbq, t-mobiles coming out with a new prepaid or no contract month to month deal.. you'll be able to get that Oct 31 14:02:13 when? Oct 31 14:02:13 languish: can I have that with unlimited data, though? Oct 31 14:02:14 he didn't really say, but the app was more of a way to show off gui effects on the phone than anything else Oct 31 14:02:38 jbq good question. I would hope so. They're revamping their plans by the end of the year Oct 31 14:02:43 (so far none of the carriers I've talked to would let me have pay-as-you-go voice with a 2-yr data-only contract) Oct 31 14:02:47 you dont want a phone then, you want a MID. Oct 31 14:02:52 so we'll see then what they actually decide on Oct 31 14:02:55 so from that I'd guess no, but the code is out there in the android samples (I think) Oct 31 14:03:25 i havent figured out how to "update" marketplace apps Oct 31 14:03:25 unix_lappy: but those plans are usually much more expensive (like $60 to $80 a month, compared to $25 forthe G1 plan) Oct 31 14:03:36 jbq, yeah, it won't be a contract, so you may pay full price for the G1 Oct 31 14:04:08 and likely they'd bump up the data plan cost a bit Oct 31 14:04:16 I don't mind paying an extra $250 on the device if I can save $750 on the voice. Oct 31 14:04:42 anyway, last time I talked to them they didn't have anything like that, so I decided not to buy one for now (I have one from work anyway) Oct 31 14:04:56 yeah, they still don't, but they might in a couple of months Oct 31 14:05:13 they have a big plan overhaul going on Oct 31 14:05:45 and from experience with tmo, the currently announced "these will be the new plans" won't be exactly what we see after it's done Oct 31 14:06:26 *nod* Oct 31 14:07:46 still, it looks liek they want to compete with tracphone Oct 31 14:07:52 so should be interesting Oct 31 14:08:26 a $40 non-contract unlimited data plan with buy as you go minutes would be a win Oct 31 14:22:50 andreaf: no Oct 31 14:22:55 http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081024/160067/ Oct 31 14:23:25 you may want to, though Oct 31 14:25:08 I'm really looking forward to a G2 or something, that has a camera I can use at night Oct 31 14:25:17 vol: mmm ok, i can choice which button I clicked ? with the id i suppose ? Oct 31 14:25:25 having a device with a camera, and still needing to carry a camera, ugh Oct 31 14:25:35 vol: but i need at least a "listener" i suppose. Oct 31 14:27:02 andreaf: yes Oct 31 14:27:06 you need at least one Oct 31 14:27:26 you can give all the buttons a common listener, and discern between them inside the action method Oct 31 14:28:47 vol: thanks i will try. Oct 31 14:29:11 hello Oct 31 14:29:41 anybody managed to install an app on the G1 from linux? Oct 31 14:30:19 "adb install blah.apk" ? Oct 31 14:30:31 ^^ Oct 31 14:30:44 ha well the device does not seem to be recognized Oct 31 14:30:50 Acsia: start adb-server as root Oct 31 14:30:53 no device attached Oct 31 14:30:56 if it's already running, kill the server Oct 31 14:30:59 then start it as root Oct 31 14:31:12 there's something you can do to run it without requiring root, but I forget what Oct 31 14:31:18 http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware Oct 31 14:31:22 also, ensure "enable debug via usb" is enabled Oct 31 14:31:23 ^^ Oct 31 14:32:30 root works Oct 31 14:32:36 thx guys Oct 31 14:34:55 damn for just a sec i thought it was on-device root Oct 31 14:35:24 lol Oct 31 14:35:34 thats because thats all you care about. Oct 31 14:36:27 pretty much i'd just like to be able to backup and restore.. Oct 31 14:36:36 lol Oct 31 14:37:31 Ok, I just got offered the OTA upgrade. I chose "later", how do I start doing the update now? Oct 31 14:37:34 a general noob question from me: I have two activities - one activity needs to do something if the user presses the back key to return to the previous one. How do I determine this event? catching KEYCODE_BACK in onKeyUp() does not do the trick because it is triggered also when I close the options menu in this activity.. but I wan tto catch it only when the user is navigating back to the... Oct 31 14:37:37 ...prev. activity.. Oct 31 14:38:45 or should I head to #android-dev with this sort of questions? :) Oct 31 14:38:55 no one is in #android-dev Oct 31 14:39:32 today is halloween, you might find many devs distracted by their party preps for later Oct 31 14:39:47 heh Oct 31 14:39:50 or office parties Oct 31 14:40:01 and tomorrow, they'll be hung over Oct 31 14:40:03 :) Oct 31 14:40:08 no one goes to #android-dev Oct 31 14:41:36 zhobbs best of luck to him :) Oct 31 14:41:43 yeah, #androd-dev is kinda a waste of time. Oct 31 14:41:44 I like #android-dev Oct 31 14:41:48 you'd probably get more help here. Oct 31 14:42:47 I'll just crosspost.. maybe someone gets bothered enough to spare a few minutes and reply me :P Oct 31 14:44:14 i like the separation #android for general yak yak.. and #android-dev for dev yak yak Oct 31 14:44:37 hey, who's dressed like the killer droid today ;) Oct 31 14:48:52 muthu: here in the West if you dress up like that you run the risk of looking like a Dalek Oct 31 14:49:03 and getting laughed at for being a total Doctor Who nerd. Oct 31 14:50:54 and getting beat up by all the jocks. Oct 31 14:52:39 and being beaten up by lesser nerds Oct 31 14:52:59 ...wow. http://diaroogle.com/ total android opportunity just -screaming- for an app. Oct 31 14:53:07 and just being beat up in general. Oct 31 14:53:45 Disconnect: that is pretty cool Oct 31 14:55:22 now if only they would expand to other cities. Oct 31 14:55:52 throw in gps location, and bam, you found yourself a toilet. Oct 31 14:57:30 test Oct 31 14:57:49 fail Oct 31 14:58:11 test 2 Oct 31 14:58:24 fail 2. Oct 31 14:59:13 nochma Oct 31 14:59:30 sorry ^^ Oct 31 15:37:18 my new laptop came with an att 3g sim card, Oct 31 15:37:20 hrrm Oct 31 15:40:37 elad: call tmob, tell them you might be going to london for work next week and need an unlock code. if you talk to smartphone/blackberry support they will probably do it for you. Oct 31 15:44:23 so what does that net me? Oct 31 15:44:28 I Oct 31 15:44:32 an unlocked g1? Oct 31 15:44:37 ahhh Oct 31 15:44:44 if you have a g1 at least. Oct 31 15:44:48 indeed Oct 31 15:45:02 so they just unlock the sim? Oct 31 15:45:08 no Oct 31 15:45:11 they give you an unlock code Oct 31 15:45:14 then you swap the sim cards. Oct 31 15:45:18 and it asks you for an unlock code. Oct 31 15:45:28 you enter you code, and swap the sim cards back Oct 31 15:45:31 then your phone is unlocked. Oct 31 15:46:54 then I put my g1 on ebay and proft$$ Oct 31 15:46:58 profit, even Oct 31 15:47:00 hehe Oct 31 15:48:25 holy crap Oct 31 15:48:29 look how many people Oct 31 15:49:20 ok excellent.... help if anyone cna provide some.... Im assuming I can place an AbsoluteLayour within a LinearLayout correct/ If so, why is it when I try this, and switch screen orientation, I cant scroll down? Oct 31 15:49:39 * Disconnect is mostly doing it just to conclusively shut up all the "omg i can't wait 60 more days" people Oct 31 15:49:53 60 more days? Oct 31 15:50:12 tmob will give unlock codes to anyone after 90 days Oct 31 15:50:23 or at least, that is their policy with all the other subsidized phones Oct 31 15:50:27 oh ya just got mine for my old curve lol Oct 31 15:50:36 so anyone? help? layouts? Oct 31 15:50:47 Disconnect: are you charging Oct 31 15:50:48 i haven't looked recently but i thought absolutelayout was toplevel Oct 31 15:50:48 ? Oct 31 15:51:09 well Ive read that Absolute was not good to use and to avoid using it Oct 31 15:51:17 but sometimes you WANT that kind of control Oct 31 15:51:17 you should be able to put absolutelayout within other layouts Oct 31 15:51:19 yes Oct 31 15:51:20 don't use it Oct 31 15:51:31 romain but why? Oct 31 15:51:36 why not? It's faster :) Oct 31 15:51:44 because it's gonna break on different resolutions Oct 31 15:52:05 ok thats a given, so point is ... use it if you know what youre doing Oct 31 15:52:33 but you're screwing over yourself and the user Oct 31 15:52:53 romainguy__ so then whats the best layout? Oct 31 15:53:00 there's no best layout Oct 31 15:53:03 it depends on what you want to do Oct 31 15:53:05 for scrolling and placing multple elemnts on a row Oct 31 15:53:10 example a form, Oct 31 15:53:20 ScrollView with a vertical LinearLayout inside Oct 31 15:53:22 TextView and Edit View on one row Oct 31 15:53:24 or a TableLayout inside Oct 31 15:53:34 "elements in a row" pretty much means "LinearLayout" Oct 31 15:53:52 but i thought linear means ONE element per row Oct 31 15:53:55 YanivC: i do that with a horizontal linear (w/ buttons) inside a vertical linear inside a scroll. Oct 31 15:54:04 linear can do horizontal Oct 31 15:54:04 YanivC: but this one element can be another layout Oct 31 15:54:05 YanivC: Yes, and you can put a LinearLayout inside it. Oct 31 15:54:06 YanivC: you can nest them Oct 31 15:54:08 or you can just use TableLayout Oct 31 15:54:14 TableLayout is nice. Oct 31 15:54:16 ..wow everyone yell at once :) Oct 31 15:54:20 lol Oct 31 15:54:21 * ttuttle YELLS REALLY LOUDLY! Oct 31 15:54:30 its like learning HTML all over again :) Oct 31 15:54:34 YanivC: Heh. Oct 31 15:54:35 I LOVE LAMP!!! Oct 31 15:55:19 ok so then maybe its just that I cant find good definitions... ayone here can explain precisely the definitions of the layouts... from what Im reading online its leading me to do things I s'pose i dont want to do Oct 31 15:55:21 what the fuckhappened to the moust usb option in settings? how the shit fuck bitch slut do i mount the phone and umount the phone now without losing data Oct 31 15:55:38 illuminum: ? Oct 31 15:55:40 I don't entirely agree with romainguy about absolutelayout though. Sure, if someone comes out with a device that has a different resolution, you'll probably have to update your app or it will look like crap. But, you can anticipate and create layouts for a few different resolutions (you can try them all out in the emulator). Oct 31 15:55:50 all i see is /dev/sdf in /dev, no /dev/sdf1 or /dev/sde1 or anything indicating i have a mountable partition Oct 31 15:55:59 illuminum: Did you see the "USB connected" notification? Oct 31 15:55:59 i want to fucking mont my sd card and you sluts changedf aroung settings Oct 31 15:56:05 yes i do Oct 31 15:56:10 illuminum: Click it. Oct 31 15:56:17 illuminum: insulting us won't help Oct 31 15:56:21 ok Oct 31 15:56:23 good enough Oct 31 15:56:26 thanks ttuttle Oct 31 15:56:26 illuminum: See the "Mount" button? Oct 31 15:56:28 I think you have to tell him to "fucking click it", otherwise he won't understand Oct 31 15:56:34 illuminum: You're welcome. Please be more polite next time. Oct 31 15:56:36 LOLOLOL Oct 31 15:56:52 that was funny marcone Oct 31 15:57:02 aye, a word of advise. upon system updates present a list of things that were changed Oct 31 15:57:37 Noted. We'll display a popup that says "fixed bugs". Oct 31 15:57:42 Is there any documentation on accessing the clipboard yet? Not having much luck finding anything about it. Oct 31 15:57:50 marcone: seriously, there are very little reasons to use AbsoluteLayout, save not lear how to properly use layouts, which will cause you more work as soon as different devices are out there Oct 31 15:58:00 hey ttuttle u have any url to good layout design examples? Oct 31 15:58:16 YanivC: No, I don't. If you can tell me what you're trying to do, I might be able to help you pick one. Oct 31 15:58:43 "i want to fucking mont my sd card and you sluts changedf aroung settings" That's the quote of the day Oct 31 15:59:03 simple form really, TextViews & EditTexts (one per line) witha button at the bottom Oct 31 15:59:14 ITS MOUNT NOT MONT Oct 31 15:59:24 YanivC: Okay. I'd suggest a TableLayout containing a TableRow for each field/label pair. Oct 31 15:59:26 Someone needs to enable a "Pretentious Mobile Phone User" setting on the email client Oct 31 15:59:27 TMO data seems to be down in Dallas/Fort Worth, TX area Oct 31 15:59:28 :? Oct 31 15:59:31 er :/ Oct 31 15:59:44 where it will add one of those "Sent wirelessly from my Android phone" or some crap to the signature line Oct 31 15:59:52 I suppose you could call it "Blackberry mode" ;) Oct 31 16:00:01 YanivC: So something like