**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 01 02:59:57 2008
Nov 01 03:00:41 <ttuttle> waldo_: hrm.
Nov 01 03:00:47 <ttuttle> waldo_: Seems fine to me.
Nov 01 03:08:37 * spikebike ponders openid for a g1
Nov 01 03:10:20 <waldo_> ttuttle did you install the RC19->28 or the real rc29
Nov 01 03:10:25 <gdsx> spikebike: it'd be pretty useless, seeing how OpenID is pretty useless, since sites don't want to trust other sites
Nov 01 03:10:42 <Elijah> So who here has bought an Android?
Nov 01 03:10:58 <spikebike> gdsx true, although I'm hoping that replacing passwords with a strong key might make them less worried about weak passwords
Nov 01 03:11:04 <spikebike> elijah if you mean a g1, I did.
Nov 01 03:11:18 <Elijah> spikebike: yes, a G1. So how do you like it!
Nov 01 03:11:25 <spikebike> it's awesome
Nov 01 03:11:36 <spikebike> although this isn't a particularly good place for unbiased reviews ;-)
Nov 01 03:12:06 <Elijah> Well I have heard some bad reviews but that is for people that have no clue of it's potential!
Nov 01 03:12:16 <Elijah> I know what to expect for now
Nov 01 03:12:37 <Elijah> I am thinking of jumping ship from Sprint since Sprint said they weren't going Andorid for a while
Nov 01 03:12:38 <spikebike> it's quite user friendly, you don't need to be a linux expert for it to be useful
Nov 01 03:13:19 <spikebike> my wife, and a friends gf are quite happy with them as well
Nov 01 03:13:25 <Elijah> Nice
Nov 01 03:13:40 <Elijah> Is the app store up and running for Android yet?
Nov 01 03:13:49 <spikebike> yup
Nov 01 03:14:02 <spikebike> I don't know the number, but I'd eyeball it at 100-200 apps
Nov 01 03:14:37 <wastrel> some major missing pieces
Nov 01 03:14:49 <spikebike> like?
Nov 01 03:14:59 <wastrel> ebook reader
Nov 01 03:15:27 <babelawra> hi , i have some troubles to get the source code, i followed the instructions on the website but when i try : repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git
Nov 01 03:15:37 <babelawra> i get bash: /bin/repo: Permission denied
Nov 01 03:15:40 <Elijah> Well, it is in it's infancy so I will just be happy to efficiently use my Google apps for now
Nov 01 03:15:47 <Elijah> Gcalendar and Gmail for the most part
Nov 01 03:16:00 <wastrel> v. easy & well integrated
Nov 01 03:16:02 <Elijah> Gmaps
Nov 01 03:16:07 <wastrel> doesn't handle to-dos though :[
Nov 01 03:16:26 <Elijah> Is it pretty responsive or is it laggy?
Nov 01 03:16:42 <Elijah> My Motorola ic902 is laggy as ____
Nov 01 03:17:37 <spikebike> I'd say it's quite snappy
Nov 01 03:17:53 <wastrel> sometimes get slow loading of things
Nov 01 03:17:59 <spikebike> indeed
Nov 01 03:18:01 <wastrel> mostly pretty responsive
Nov 01 03:18:27 <spikebike> but interactively, scrolling, pulling down the notification bar, bargging icons around, etc is pretty smooth
Nov 01 03:19:05 <ttuttle> waldo_: I'm running a totally different build.
Nov 01 03:19:32 <ttuttle> waldo_: I got my phone through the friends and family program, so I run a sort of testing builds.  (More cutting-edge than the "for-testing" ones.)
Nov 01 03:19:43 <Elijah> Is there anyway of buying one of these and putting it on Sprints network?
Nov 01 03:19:47 <ttuttle> Elijah: No.
Nov 01 03:19:51 <ttuttle> Elijah: Sprint is not GSM.
Nov 01 03:19:57 <Elijah> Hmm
Nov 01 03:20:00 <spikebike> ttuttle right
Nov 01 03:20:02 <Elijah> How bout ATT then
Nov 01 03:20:13 <ttuttle> Elijah: Certainly, if you can convince T-Mo to unlock it.
Nov 01 03:20:16 <spikebike> yeah, if you pay full price gsm should work
Nov 01 03:20:20 <ttuttle> Elijah: I'm using mine with AT&T.
Nov 01 03:20:27 <spikebike> or pay for the unlock
Nov 01 03:20:29 <ttuttle> Elijah: Just beware that the 3G won't work.
Nov 01 03:20:33 <Elijah> ttuttle: how did you do that?
Nov 01 03:20:45 <Elijah> The G1 is not 3G?
Nov 01 03:20:47 <ttuttle> Elijah: I'm testing for Google, so I asked for an unlocked one.
Nov 01 03:20:52 <spikebike> it's 3g only on tmobile
Nov 01 03:20:54 <ttuttle> Elijah: The G1 is 3G, but it only works on T-Mo's frequencies.
Nov 01 03:21:00 <Elijah> bummer
Nov 01 03:21:04 <ttuttle> Elijah: It could work on AT&T, but they'd need to change the hardware slightly.
Nov 01 03:21:09 <spikebike> it's pretty damn nice on edge though
Nov 01 03:21:16 <Elijah> I want one badly but T-mobile coverage isn't the greatest here
Nov 01 03:21:18 <ttuttle> Elijah: It's actually not so bad... ever since iPhone 1G, EDGE on AT&T has been *much* faster.
Nov 01 03:22:50 <unix_remote> verizon has rolled out GSM right?
Nov 01 03:22:57 <ttuttle> unix_remote: No!  They're CDMA, I think.
Nov 01 03:23:12 <unix_remote> ttuttle: hmm.
Nov 01 03:23:59 <ttuttle> Yeah, they're CDMA.
Nov 01 03:24:00 <ttuttle> brb
Nov 01 03:26:38 <spikebike> yeah, tmo and AT&T are the 2 biggest gsm folks in the usa
Nov 01 03:27:01 <spikebike> sprint, verizon, nextel aren't
Nov 01 03:27:47 <spikebike> there is a lame book reader btw
Nov 01 03:30:14 <Elijah> I am really disappointed the Sprint is not adopting an Android phone yet
Nov 01 03:31:19 <Elijah> Do any of you have the G1 in Tmobile edge
Nov 01 03:31:26 <Elijah> Is it fast at all?
Nov 01 03:31:33 <spikebike> yeah, it's fine
Nov 01 03:32:37 <ttuttle> back
Nov 01 03:32:39 <Elijah> Do you have to pay extra for 3G
Nov 01 03:32:50 <ttuttle> Elijah: no
Nov 01 03:32:54 <ttuttle> Elijah: it's part of the G1 data plan.
Nov 01 03:33:35 <spikebike> maps, app downloads, even youtube is reasonable over edge
Nov 01 03:34:03 <spikebike> gtalk/im works well
Nov 01 03:34:03 <Elijah> Ok, Well I am gonna see if I can get out of my Sprint plan, its been well over a year
Nov 01 03:34:12 <Elijah> I hear they are pro rating ETF now
Nov 01 03:34:16 <spikebike> good luck.
Nov 01 03:35:24 <ttuttle> Elijah: Oh, that's good.
Nov 01 03:48:25 <elad> pro-rate
Nov 01 03:48:27 <elad> yea right
Nov 01 03:48:35 <elad> i was with verizon for 7 years
Nov 01 03:56:07 <spikebike> it doesn't seem like android is really related to linux
Nov 01 03:56:11 <RyeBrye> My bluetooth keyboard will pair with the G1 just fine - but wont connect or do anything useful.
Nov 01 03:56:21 * RyeBrye now starts bitching about not being able to fix it himself
Nov 01 03:56:23 <spikebike> couldn't a dalvik port to windows mobile, sybian, or OSX allow the same apps to run?
Nov 01 03:57:03 <spikebike> Ryebyre I believe the roadmap includes an extension to allow arbitrary user input devices ... like an onscreen keyboard
Nov 01 03:57:28 <RyeBrye> I'd FIX IT myself - and contribute patches - but since I'd have no reliable way of testing if it works - and even if I did get it working in the emulator or something I'd have to wait an unknown period of time to get my own patches on my own device... I don't see any reason to hack away at it
Nov 01 03:58:24 <RyeBrye> Yeah, the interface framework will be good once it's written - and it's probably a prerequisite to getting a bluetooth keyboard working properly - but I would think bluetooh HID would be handled much nicer at the OS level that in some background process running in userspace
Nov 01 03:58:53 <RyeBrye> I would even accept a service where if you write patches and google likes them - they send you back a signed image to flash on your own phone
Nov 01 03:59:11 <RyeBrye> without haven't to wait until whenever to get the OTA update
Nov 01 04:00:23 <spikebike> yeah the tmo device isn't really open
Nov 01 04:00:34 <spikebike> sad
Nov 01 04:00:59 <RyeBrye> Yeah, and so far it seems like it's even more locked down than other t-mobile HTC devices
Nov 01 04:01:03 <spikebike> the openmoko looks like it will have an open android
Nov 01 04:01:15 <RyeBrye> The Free Runner you mean?
Nov 01 04:01:26 <RyeBrye> OpenMoko is the OS
Nov 01 04:01:28 <spikebike> ya
Nov 01 04:01:41 <spikebike> supposedly they will have an android phone in nov
Nov 01 04:01:53 <Waldo-g1> does ircii not suppor color?!
Nov 01 04:01:55 <RyeBrye> That will be completely useless because there is no onscreen keyboard yet
Nov 01 04:02:09 <RyeBrye> and the Free Runner lacks a hardware keyboard
Nov 01 04:02:17 <spikebike> they might add one, does't seem that hard
Nov 01 04:02:29 <RyeBrye> there is one on the roadmap from google in Q1 of 09
Nov 01 04:02:41 <RyeBrye> so they could add one, but it would be a throwaway hack
Nov 01 04:02:45 <wastrel> irssi supports color
Nov 01 04:03:06 <Waldo-g1> wastrel but not ircii huh?  Hmm
Nov 01 04:03:15 <unix_remote> RyeBrye: among other things it also lacks a back button.
Nov 01 04:03:15 <Waldo-g1> guess I installed the wrong one.
Nov 01 04:03:27 <spikebike> thus the wait for a month ;-)
Nov 01 04:03:33 <wastrel> Waldo-g1: i was using ircii in 1993 :]
Nov 01 04:03:36 <spikebike> alas the hardy is kinda sucky in general
Nov 01 04:03:39 <wastrel> it's ancient
Nov 01 04:03:43 <spikebike> er hardware
Nov 01 04:04:04 <spikebike> hopefully folks will jailbrake the g1 so folks can hack on it willy nilly
Nov 01 04:04:06 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it was pretty decent when they announced it - but it took so long it was outdated when it hit the shelves
Nov 01 04:04:10 <Waldo-g1> wastrel yeah... that's the last time I had to install an irc client!
Nov 01 04:04:23 <RyeBrye> I've been poking around, but there are no obvious weak links - or so it seems
Nov 01 04:04:48 <Waldo-g1> wastrel so is irssi the best text-based one?  I remember bitchx being popular at one point
Nov 01 04:05:04 <unix_remote> try both.
Nov 01 04:05:12 <unix_remote> irssi works on virtually everything though.
Nov 01 04:05:19 <Waldo-g1> okay I'll go with irssi then...
Nov 01 04:05:21 <spikebike> irssi works decently for me from connectbox
Nov 01 04:05:21 <Waldo-g1> and junk this one
Nov 01 04:05:26 <wastrel> irssi is the new bitchx
Nov 01 04:05:29 <Waldo-g1> got it
Nov 01 04:05:31 <spikebike> although the status line would get wonky
Nov 01 04:05:33 <Waldo-g1> okay then irssi...
Nov 01 04:05:48 <Waldo-g1> it is..  I mean..  seirously I haven't used irc in a while..
Nov 01 04:05:56 <Waldo-g1> gonna switch... back in a few.
Nov 01 04:06:19 <spikebike> if the other htc devices are less locked down maybe someone will port android to one of them
Nov 01 04:06:27 <spikebike> the other nice fit would be the treo pro
Nov 01 04:06:31 <spikebike> almost identical hardware
Nov 01 04:06:52 <spikebike> (resolution, cpu, gps, memory, graphics, etc.)
Nov 01 04:07:02 <spikebike> and of course a hardware keyboard
Nov 01 04:07:22 <spikebike> has the same qualcom 7201 or whatever it's called
Nov 01 04:08:52 <RyeBrye> I wonder how hard it would be to create an SD simulator - basically a little card that would present itself as if it were an SD card - but you can control it...
Nov 01 04:09:10 <RyeBrye> I'm not thinking it's practical, but it'd be a pretty cool little hacking device
Nov 01 04:11:51 <waldo___> ooo purty
Nov 01 04:13:33 <waldo___> way more readable
Nov 01 04:14:42 <spikebike> can you see the entire status bar?
Nov 01 04:15:06 <waldo___> no its too long
Nov 01 04:15:19 <waldo___> but the color is great
Nov 01 04:15:38 <BHSPitLappy> you're using a non-G1?
Nov 01 04:17:44 <waldo___> im using a g1
Nov 01 04:20:07 <elad> waldo__: are you using irissi?
Nov 01 04:20:24 <umdk1d3> <3 irssi
Nov 01 04:21:09 <waldo-g1> yup
Nov 01 04:22:21 <waldo-g1> i'll have to fool w the default settings later but the color/indentation is really nice as opposed to ircii.
Nov 01 04:22:30 <michaelnovakjr_> yawn
Nov 01 04:22:46 <waldo-g1> hey michaelnovakjr_
Nov 01 04:22:50 <michaelnovakjr_> hey
Nov 01 04:23:13 <waldo-g1> congrats on the phone  ;)
Nov 01 04:23:17 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Nov 01 04:23:32 <RyeBrye> Are the for-testing private keys in the repo, or are those also locked down?
Nov 01 04:24:05 <RyeBrye> i.e. ota-rel-keys,for-testing,release-keys is what one user got on their phone after running some update
Nov 01 04:25:03 <michaelnovakjr_> this phone is slick
Nov 01 04:25:16 <RyeBrye> The g1? yeah, it's nice
Nov 01 04:25:27 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Nov 01 04:25:34 <michaelnovakjr_> just picked mine up today
Nov 01 04:26:29 <spikebike> oh
Nov 01 04:26:34 <spikebike> which build are you running?
Nov 01 04:26:40 <michaelnovakjr_> no idea
Nov 01 04:26:47 <RyeBrye> do the update
Nov 01 04:27:00 <RyeBrye> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=439733&page=8 post 77
Nov 01 04:27:04 <spikebike> settings -> about phone -> build number
Nov 01 04:27:05 <RyeBrye> the rc28 makes it a little nicer even
Nov 01 04:27:12 <spikebike> how so?
Nov 01 04:27:20 <RyeBrye> the USB status indicator is pretty nice
Nov 01 04:27:24 <michaelnovakjr_> RC19
Nov 01 04:27:29 <spikebike> ah, k
Nov 01 04:27:31 <spikebike> same ehre
Nov 01 04:28:21 <michaelnovakjr_> shipping with a flight of the conchords song is awesome
Nov 01 04:28:46 <wastrel> that's a tv show
Nov 01 04:28:51 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Nov 01 04:28:58 <michaelnovakjr_> but they are music :)
Nov 01 04:29:53 <spikebike> I don't see that song
Nov 01 04:29:58 <spikebike> or is it a ring tone?
Nov 01 04:30:19 <michaelnovakjr_> its in /sdcard/music
Nov 01 04:30:22 <michaelnovakjr_> or in the music player
Nov 01 04:30:33 <michaelnovakjr_> .. same thing
Nov 01 04:30:44 <RyeBrye> Isn't that on your sdcard?
Nov 01 04:30:53 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Nov 01 04:31:11 <RyeBrye> ... maybe you bought someone's returned G1 with crap on the SD card already? :)
Nov 01 04:31:32 <michaelnovakjr_> :) they did a good job packaging it up then :)
Nov 01 04:31:50 <wastrel> no i got that too on mine
Nov 01 04:32:23 <RyeBrye> ok
Nov 01 04:32:29 <spikebike> ah, I didn't see it under music
Nov 01 04:32:33 <RyeBrye> Mine was returned, but it looked brand new
Nov 01 04:32:34 <spikebike> I do see it moutned though
Nov 01 04:32:41 <RyeBrye> and I ordered it from t-mobile
Nov 01 04:32:42 <RyeBrye> online
Nov 01 04:33:00 <RyeBrye> When I went to go to the web or something, it asked me to give a password for some random gmail account I've never heard of
Nov 01 04:33:01 <michaelnovakjr_> i went to a store and got it
Nov 01 04:33:12 <RyeBrye> no big deal - I just did a factory reset - but it was really strange
Nov 01 04:33:22 <michaelnovakjr_> i was able to set my google apps account in gmail
Nov 01 04:33:26 <michaelnovakjr_> that was nice :)
Nov 01 04:33:35 <michaelnovakjr_> google apps === gmail :)
Nov 01 04:33:39 <RyeBrye> 2fcdit123@gmail.com was the guy who had mine before
Nov 01 04:33:51 <michaelnovakjr_> what a dumb email address
Nov 01 04:33:53 <RyeBrye> I even emailed him about it - but I think (based on the name) that was just a throwaway account
Nov 01 04:33:55 <spikebike> does anyone know how to clean up your gtalk contacts?
Nov 01 04:34:02 <spikebike> I've got a bunch I want to delete but can't seem to
Nov 01 04:34:29 <spikebike> I tried firefix -> gmail, firefox -> talkgadget, and g1 -> IM -> gtalk
Nov 01 04:34:42 <RyeBrye> spikebike: http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/m24.htm that should do the trick
Nov 01 04:34:56 <spikebike> heh
Nov 01 04:35:10 <RyeBrye> Oh, you mean just deleting them?
Nov 01 04:35:21 <RyeBrye> don't know
Nov 01 04:35:24 <spikebike> ya, the junk ones
Nov 01 04:39:41 <waldo-g1> cool
Nov 01 04:39:54 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye, any news on the update hacking?
Nov 01 04:40:01 <DarkriftX> xda-devs seems to have quieted down
Nov 01 04:40:05 <waldo-g1> i like the pgup & down in irssi
Nov 01 04:40:21 <spikebike> waldo how do you type that on the g1?
Nov 01 04:40:31 <spikebike> your using connectbot?
Nov 01 04:40:57 <waldo-g1> swipe up on the left side of the screen
Nov 01 04:41:05 <waldo-g1> on g1 now yes
Nov 01 04:41:14 <spikebike> sweet, I was looking for that today
Nov 01 04:41:43 <waldo-g1> lets you scroll beyond phone's memory
Nov 01 04:50:26 <michaelnovakjr_> why would one of my machines tell me the compliance level is 1.4 when i have 1.5 installed and the same exact project builds fine on two other machines??
Nov 01 04:55:58 <waldo-g1> complience level of java?
Nov 01 04:56:02 <waldo-g1> ance
Nov 01 04:56:33 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Nov 01 05:05:01 <michaelnovakjr_> gcj is the worst thing ever created
Nov 01 05:08:08 <waldo_> michaelnovakjr is there a new glance to try out?
Nov 01 05:08:16 <michaelnovakjr_> trying to build
Nov 01 05:14:06 <waldo_> using eclipse instead of ant or something?
Nov 01 05:14:12 <michaelnovakjr_> no its ant
Nov 01 05:14:14 <michaelnovakjr_> i figured it out
Nov 01 05:14:31 <michaelnovakjr_> it was gcj and all its extra crap that ubuntu installs when installing eclipse
Nov 01 05:14:39 <michaelnovakjr_> eclipse package in ubuntu is horrible
Nov 01 05:14:52 <michaelnovakjr_> all my other machines i installed it manually, go figur
Nov 01 05:17:38 <romainguy> gcj :((
Nov 01 05:22:36 <michaelnovakjr__> yea romainguy its annoying
Nov 01 05:22:51 <michaelnovakjr__> got a G1 though romainguy :)
Nov 01 05:22:56 <romainguy> glad to hear it :)
Nov 01 05:23:18 <michaelnovakjr__> the graphics look great on it
Nov 01 05:23:33 <romainguy> :))
Nov 01 05:24:01 <michaelnovakjr__> went with the blue mountain background...
Nov 01 05:24:21 <BHSPitLappy> Are there alternate UIs out yet?
Nov 01 05:24:45 <michaelnovakjr__> haven't seen any.... do we need them?
Nov 01 05:24:49 <michaelnovakjr__> i like the UI
Nov 01 05:24:56 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr__: I took that picture :p
Nov 01 05:25:12 <michaelnovakjr__> i know :)
Nov 01 05:25:19 <BHSPitLappy> michaelnovakjr, try running it on a QVGA-P screen
Nov 01 05:25:21 <michaelnovakjr__> i think its the best one in the bunch
Nov 01 05:25:31 <romainguy> BHSPitLappy: well the UI is meant for HVGA :)
Nov 01 05:25:35 <BHSPitLappy> michaelnovakjr, or a non-touchscreen, or a combination of the two
Nov 01 05:25:57 <michaelnovakjr__> BHSPitLappy: or just the G1 :)
Nov 01 05:26:17 <BHSPitLappy> michaelnovakjr, if the OS was only for the G1, I wouldn't really mind
Nov 01 05:26:46 <waldo_> hope we start seeing it on car navigation systems...
Nov 01 05:26:55 <BHSPitLappy> the emulator comes with HVGA and QVGA modes
Nov 01 05:26:59 <michaelnovakjr__> BHSPitLappy: well, currently it is :)
Nov 01 05:27:06 <michaelnovakjr__> as far as devices go...
Nov 01 05:27:27 <romainguy> http://flickr.com/photos/romainguy/2990380043/ << speaking of photos, here is a new one
Nov 01 05:29:00 <michaelnovakjr__> that's cool
Nov 01 05:29:03 <michaelnovakjr__> i like that one
Nov 01 05:29:28 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr__: I still have 20 or so from that place to go through
Nov 01 05:29:38 <romainguy> we actually had such a wallpaper in M3
Nov 01 05:29:47 <romainguy> I'm glad I can finally bring it back but with my own work :))
Nov 01 05:29:57 <michaelnovakjr__> totally
Nov 01 05:29:59 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Nov 01 05:30:13 <michaelnovakjr__> the m5 one was good too
Nov 01 05:30:23 <romainguy> which one?
Nov 01 05:31:30 <BHSPitLappy> romainguy, go shoot Hueco Tanks
Nov 01 05:32:28 <michaelnovakjr__> it was similar to the mountain one...
Nov 01 05:32:46 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr__: well in M5 there was a sunset over the mountains
Nov 01 05:32:48 <romainguy> and it's in 1.0
Nov 01 05:32:55 <romainguy> there was also a sunrise over rice fields
Nov 01 05:32:57 <romainguy> also in 1.0
Nov 01 05:32:58 <michaelnovakjr__> yea, that was it
Nov 01 05:33:01 <romainguy> BHSPitLappy: looks awesome
Nov 01 05:33:03 <michaelnovakjr__> the sun over mountains
Nov 01 05:33:11 <romainguy> it's in 1.0 :)
Nov 01 05:33:53 <michaelnovakjr__> the second one :)
Nov 01 05:34:03 <BHSPitLappy> romainguy, spent a week there bouldering this summer, it's amazing
Nov 01 06:07:13 <RyeBrye> romainguy - do you do a lot of canyoneering?
Nov 01 06:09:34 <RyeBrye> romainguy - do you do the technical ones? If you ever are up in the Utah area again and want to go through some of the cool ones in Zion or the San Rafael Swell - let me know :)
Nov 01 06:10:12 <umdk1d3> yay just saw the g1 commercial in 720p  ^.^
Nov 01 06:10:30 <RyeBrye> my g1 isn't 720p
Nov 01 06:10:34 <RyeBrye> I should return it ;(
Nov 01 06:10:38 <RyeBrye> err ;)
Nov 01 06:10:40 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: no you shouldn't ;-)
Nov 01 06:10:54 <ttuttle> G1 commercial?!
Nov 01 06:10:56 <ttuttle> Lemme see!
Nov 01 06:11:02 <umdk1d3> lol its the same one on youtube
Nov 01 06:11:04 <RyeBrye> I kind of wonder if to the rest of the world the G1 commercials are as easy to tune out as those stupid Samsung Instinct commercials
Nov 01 06:11:04 <romainguy> RyeBrye: I just take pictures and walk around, nothing technical :))
Nov 01 06:11:07 <ttuttle> okay
Nov 01 06:11:12 <umdk1d3> was nice seeing it in hd tho
Nov 01 06:11:27 * ttuttle doesn't tune out the Instinct commercials.  Are those the product-placement movie ones?  They're hilarious.
Nov 01 06:11:43 <umdk1d3> will have to mythtranscode it out later and rapidshare it or something
Nov 01 06:11:49 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - I watch them - but I think 'Hm. that phone is probably a piece of crap'
Nov 01 06:12:57 <RyeBrye> romainguy - if you had any desire to do some of the technical stuff though, we've got enough gear between me and the 2 other guys I go with that we were able to bring 6 other beginners through a canyon in Arches last November
Nov 01 06:13:08 <romainguy> that could be cool
Nov 01 06:15:25 <RyeBrye> http://gallery.mac.com/m1928#100000 that's a video of a short fun one that you could take a camera in very easily and get some good shots depending on the time of day... I edited that in the car on the way back from the trip last time
Nov 01 06:15:56 * RyeBrye now wonders how many years until the cell phone is capable of doing video editing of high-res video clips on the fly :)
Nov 01 06:17:11 <romainguy> hauling photo gear in there must suck :))
Nov 01 06:17:34 <RyeBrye> It's not nearly as bad as hauling 400 feet of rope through some of the things we do
Nov 01 06:17:55 <romainguy> well I have a lot of photo gear
Nov 01 06:17:58 <romainguy> but I believe you :))
Nov 01 06:18:39 <RyeBrye> Yeah, you'd probably want to be selective on what you brought - one of the guys we sometimes go with is also a big photo buff and he could probably give you pointers on what he does with his stuff to make sure it survives and that he has what he wants
Nov 01 06:18:59 <romainguy> yeah protecting the gear must be hard sometimes :)
Nov 01 06:19:51 <RyeBrye> I spaced it and had my video camera in the top of my pack one time because it was acting up... normally I have it in a hard plastic underwater case but this canyon was a dry one so I didn't want that extra weight
Nov 01 06:19:59 <RyeBrye> oops...
Nov 01 06:20:40 <RyeBrye> once stuff goes into your pack, it's very easy to forget what is in there and just toss it around
Nov 01 06:20:46 <romainguy> I bet
Nov 01 06:21:01 <romainguy> I often do the same on hikes
Nov 01 06:21:04 <romainguy> so I can't imagine there :)
Nov 01 06:24:14 <RyeBrye> If you had a good, lightweight, but really adjustable tripod or something you could use to brace the camera against sandstone - you could get some amazing shots in some of these canyons
Nov 01 06:24:31 <RyeBrye> The problem, of course, is that the lighting is always really low
Nov 01 06:24:46 <romainguy> yeah, in Antelope I had my big sturdy tripod because it's a dry one with sand at the bottom
Nov 01 06:25:11 <romainguy> I'd definitely not take this one in a canyon like the one from your video :)
Nov 01 06:26:49 <RyeBrye> The Subway in Zion is a good one for photos - and it wouldn't be bad to take a camera through that one since the parts where you really want the nice photos it's safe to take all your gear out and stuff
Nov 01 06:27:14 <romainguy> I'm planning on getting a new camera by the end of the year
Nov 01 06:27:22 <romainguy> so I'll have at least one to sacrifice if need be ^^
Nov 01 06:27:40 <romainguy> (I sacrificed one in China already)
Nov 01 06:27:47 <RyeBrye> That stinks
Nov 01 06:28:38 <RyeBrye> Yeah, we're always looking for excuses to get out - so if you were coming up whenever just drop me a line and we could work something out... you could even probably just pick ones you wanted to do and we'd either be excited about it or tell you if they suck
Nov 01 06:28:45 <RyeBrye> (most are good, but some suck)
Nov 01 06:28:55 <romainguy> suck in what way?
Nov 01 06:28:57 <romainguy> just boring?
Nov 01 06:29:02 <RyeBrye> Yeah, boring
Nov 01 06:29:19 <RyeBrye> or a really really long boring approach for a not-that-exciting canyon, followed by a really long buswacking exit
Nov 01 06:29:35 <romainguy> way to ruin your groove :)
Nov 01 06:29:38 <RyeBrye> Oooh
Nov 01 06:29:50 <RyeBrye> you've heard of the narrows in Zion, right? There are 3 canyons that exit into the narrows
Nov 01 06:30:00 <romainguy> yes, but I've never been to the narrows
Nov 01 06:30:01 <RyeBrye> both Mystery and Imlay are awesome canyons
Nov 01 06:31:02 <romainguy> at least they must not be too crowded
Nov 01 06:31:08 <RyeBrye> Imlay is a very technical canyon - and it's not crowded at all
Nov 01 06:31:11 <romainguy> Antelope was very disappointing in that regard :((
Nov 01 06:31:15 <RyeBrye> Oh, yeah
Nov 01 06:31:24 <RyeBrye> These canyons are not at all crowded - you wont see anyone but the people in your group
Nov 01 06:31:26 <romainguy> stupid foreign tourists :))
Nov 01 06:31:37 <romainguy> eheh that's cool
Nov 01 06:32:28 <RyeBrye> Although when you drop into the narrows, usually that is crowded - more so in Mystery because it's close to the bus stop
Nov 01 06:32:29 <RyeBrye> http://climb-utah.com/Zion/imlay1.htm
Nov 01 06:32:55 <romainguy> must suck to get caught in a flash flood in there :)
Nov 01 06:33:02 <RyeBrye> Yeah, you really watch the weather
Nov 01 06:33:15 <RyeBrye> a flash flood would most definitely ruin your day
Nov 01 06:34:01 <romainguy> -r day
Nov 01 06:34:18 <RyeBrye> There are some canyons that have exits - but most do not
Nov 01 06:34:48 <romainguy> well you can exit up and dead :)
Nov 01 06:35:18 <RyeBrye> There is one in the San Rafael Swell called the Squeeze that's fun - and the exact opposite of crowded. At one point before you drop in the canyon, you can look in every direction and see absolutely no other person
Nov 01 06:35:28 <romainguy> ahah sweet
Nov 01 06:35:30 <RyeBrye> for several miles in every direction
Nov 01 06:37:07 <RyeBrye> Most of the people who are really into technical slot canyons that I know are also technical people... lots of programmers, a few engineers, and one guy that now has a company making canyoneering gear graduated from MIT in something
Nov 01 06:37:33 <romainguy> I wonder if there's a link :)
Nov 01 06:38:17 <RyeBrye> There are a lot of fun challenges to it one you get into it - plus there must be some part of the brain that likes going through canyons that also likes doing other technical stuff.... I don't know
Nov 01 06:39:43 <RyeBrye> The guy who did these photos is one of my friends too - but not in my regular group: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/dan0709esc/pages/page7.html
Nov 01 06:39:50 <RyeBrye> he's also a big photo buff / canyoneering buff
Nov 01 06:40:18 <romainguy> nice
Nov 01 06:42:51 <BHSPitLappy> hey umdk1d3
Nov 01 06:44:46 <RyeBrye> http://www.danransom.com/TripReports/?cat=4 those are his trip reports - http://www.danransom.com/TripReports/?p=58 is one when I was with him in imlay
Nov 01 06:49:11 <DarkriftX> hrmmmmm
Nov 01 06:49:41 <DarkriftX> i wonder what android devices will be available by tax return time :S
Nov 01 06:51:11 <unix_remote> DarkriftX: you'll likely get a couple nice stimulus checks in the mail before then.
Nov 01 06:51:27 <DarkriftX> i wouldnt count on it
Nov 01 06:51:39 <DarkriftX> would be nice though
Nov 01 06:56:01 <mattgyver83> is programming for android difficult, anyone have any good reads?
Nov 01 06:57:55 <muthu> android sdk docs is pretty good
Nov 01 07:37:33 <RyeBrye> http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?message.uid=24158
Nov 01 07:37:39 <RyeBrye> I like t-mobile's response:
Nov 01 07:38:02 <RyeBrye> "The updates are being sent out to everyone.  We didn't plan the OTA updates to be installed on a phone which had already been updated manually.  Hopefully the OTA installer is smart enough to realize the update is present, but who knows.  If your phone is 'bricked' due to the offical OTA being installed on a manually updated phone, once again, you are out of luck."
Nov 01 07:38:15 <RyeBrye> Wow, that's dumb.
Nov 01 07:38:19 <RyeBrye> I also like the tags on that guy's post
Nov 01 07:38:22 <frito> ofc they are gonna say that is called cya
Nov 01 07:38:47 <frito> i did the manual update though no problems worked fine =D
Nov 01 07:38:48 <umdk1d3> RyeBrye: rofl @ tagged as "fearmongering"
Nov 01 07:39:14 <frito> lol yeah inaccuarte, technically wrong lol
Nov 01 07:39:55 <romainguy> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1143
Nov 01 07:40:01 <romainguy> love the last sentence of the description
Nov 01 07:40:25 <jsherman> lol
Nov 01 07:40:26 <d03boy> your mom goes to college
Nov 01 07:40:47 <frito> lol
Nov 01 07:41:00 <RyeBrye> The guy at t-mobile has this impression I think in his mind like they have some kind of pipe that they just shove things down
Nov 01 07:41:02 <umdk1d3> idk it sounds like a very interesting idea
Nov 01 07:41:05 <jsherman> romainguy, do you know if screenlocking is intentionally not supposed to work in the eng build
Nov 01 07:41:06 <RyeBrye> and they magically fall into the hole in the phone or something
Nov 01 07:41:10 <jsherman> and only in user builds or something
Nov 01 07:41:10 <frito> "incase i do not survive the incident
Nov 01 07:41:18 <romainguy> jsherman: what eng build?
Nov 01 07:41:28 <jsherman> er the default target
Nov 01 07:41:40 <romainguy> he also wants to use keyboard, mouses and printers on his phone...
Nov 01 07:41:41 <umdk1d3> frito: i mean, imagine like an explosion or something
Nov 01 07:41:42 <jsherman> is an "eng" type build as opposed to a "user" one
Nov 01 07:41:46 <romainguy> I should buy him a laptop
Nov 01 07:41:54 <romainguy> jsherman: the open source release?
Nov 01 07:41:58 <jsherman> yes
Nov 01 07:42:06 <romainguy> it's probably normal
Nov 01 07:42:12 <jsherman> ?
Nov 01 07:42:48 <RyeBrye> romainguy - I want to use a bluetooth keyboard on mine - does that mean the bad guys are likely going to sieze my phone too?
Nov 01 07:43:06 <romainguy> RyeBrye: if you use a CUPS printer with your phone, you're gonna die
Nov 01 07:43:07 <frito> i dont think i would be concerned with my phone getting data of what is happening safe more than gettin my ass outta there and safe tbh
Nov 01 07:43:11 <romainguy> or maybe I got confused :)
Nov 01 07:43:17 <romainguy> frito: true :)
Nov 01 07:43:23 <romainguy> especially if you have an EDGE connection ^^
Nov 01 07:43:26 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 01 07:43:31 <romainguy> or it's night time
Nov 01 07:43:34 <romainguy> good luck with pictures
Nov 01 07:43:45 <romainguy> ah the joys of public bug trackers
Nov 01 07:43:46 <frito> indeed
Nov 01 07:43:52 <RyeBrye> Yes - a better feature request would be being able to push the camera button in a special sequence of presses and have the phone turn into a hand grenade
Nov 01 07:43:56 <RyeBrye> or at the very least a flash bomb
Nov 01 07:43:58 <frito> nighttime pictures = teh sux
Nov 01 07:44:03 <romainguy> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1144
Nov 01 07:44:06 <romainguy> this one is nice too
Nov 01 07:44:22 <frito> and everyone knows the bad shit goes down at night ofc
Nov 01 07:44:45 <RyeBrye> I could post one just like that guy:
Nov 01 07:44:54 <jsherman> lmfao
Nov 01 07:45:29 <RyeBrye> "I want my phone to be more like the kitchenaid I just bought: 1: accept different attachments so I can mash potatoes or beat eggs 2: have a detachable bowl that is dishwasher safe..."
Nov 01 07:45:44 <frito> lol
Nov 01 07:45:52 <frito> i vote for #2!!
Nov 01 07:47:26 <RyeBrye> Hmm... this guy wins for worst explanation for wanting shell access on the phone:
Nov 01 07:47:33 <RyeBrye> "Doing everything on an emulator is a hassle. When I am on the road I want
Nov 01 07:47:33 <RyeBrye> to be able to develop and test directly on the G1 without having to carry a
Nov 01 07:47:33 <RyeBrye> laptop around."
Nov 01 07:47:38 <RyeBrye> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1146
Nov 01 07:47:54 <RyeBrye> I can't wait to see him start Eclipse on his phone
Nov 01 07:48:03 <DarkriftX> ROFL!!!
Nov 01 07:48:04 <DarkriftX> A member of our Android Community (lgsilvaas), has just found instructions showing how to update your G1 without getting the over-the-air update. All you need is a MicroSD card to update to the new RC29 firmware.
Nov 01 07:48:13 <DarkriftX> i like how they try to take credit for this
Nov 01 07:48:19 <DarkriftX> it was first posted at xda-developers
Nov 01 07:48:26 <DarkriftX> I am the one who posted it FIRST on androidcommunity
Nov 01 07:48:40 <RyeBrye> Yeah, that's lame
Nov 01 07:48:49 <frito> Should be able to attach, perhaps via USB or bluetooth, printers,
Nov 01 07:48:49 <frito> scannners, and other such peripherals. Most important, initially, would be
Nov 01 07:48:49 <frito> printers.
Nov 01 07:48:51 <DarkriftX> i dont even want credit, but shit, give the credit to xda-devs
Nov 01 07:48:52 <RyeBrye> but... apparently T-mobile might fry your phone
Nov 01 07:48:54 <frito> buy a pc pls
Nov 01 07:49:01 <RyeBrye> and Don't do it! You can't trust 3-rd party upgrades!
Nov 01 07:49:09 <RyeBrye> Sheesh - I WISH you couldn't trust 3rd party upgrades
Nov 01 07:49:10 <DarkriftX> google isnt 3rd party
Nov 01 07:49:13 <RyeBrye> I know
Nov 01 07:49:14 <DarkriftX> they are 4th party!
Nov 01 07:49:17 <RyeBrye> btu that warning is such a joke
Nov 01 07:49:23 <DarkriftX> i know, i laughed
Nov 01 07:49:34 <romainguy> RyeBrye: they have a point, if you get the update from an untrusted source.... :)
Nov 01 07:49:35 <DarkriftX> i can see some nerdy guy writing that while performing the upgrade
Nov 01 07:49:36 <RyeBrye> if there was a legitimate reason to be worried about a 3rd party putting together a malicious update at this point, I would be overjoyed
Nov 01 07:49:53 <DarkriftX> lol RyeBrye good point
Nov 01 07:50:09 <RyeBrye> Yes, they probably haven't been trying to bang their way into as hard as the rest of us have
Nov 01 07:50:17 <romainguy> look at it from their perspective
Nov 01 07:50:35 <RyeBrye> They don't understand the signing process... etc. - I get that
Nov 01 07:50:41 <romainguy> if they suddenly get a bunch of customers complaining that their phone is toast because they fucked up a manual update...
Nov 01 07:51:18 <RyeBrye> It's true
Nov 01 07:51:41 <RyeBrye> There is also a bug in the RC19 recovery mode that it only reads a certain kind of partition table
Nov 01 07:51:56 <RyeBrye> (apparently) - I had to put it on a different micro SD card than the one that came with my phone to get it to work
Nov 01 07:52:31 <RyeBrye> yeah, and I can understand T-mobile's approach... but the rollout speed for this update is ridiculously slow
Nov 01 07:53:07 <DarkriftX> that or the updates are too publicly known lol
Nov 01 07:53:19 <DarkriftX> maybe all OTA updates are like that but most ppl arent expecting them
Nov 01 07:53:20 <RyeBrye> Yeah, that might be the case as well
Nov 01 07:53:42 <frito> i would say it prob is
Nov 01 07:53:43 <romainguy> RyeBrye: don't be impatient
Nov 01 07:54:08 <romainguy> OTAing tons of phone over a brand new 3G network is probably not something they want to fuck up :)
Nov 01 07:54:21 <romainguy> the new RC won't give you tons of cool new shiny features :)
Nov 01 07:54:30 <RyeBrye> It gives the USB indicator though :)
Nov 01 07:54:32 <frito> thing is theres too many of our type of users that bought this phone that enjoy tweaking and modding their stuff so its to be expected imo
Nov 01 07:54:34 <RyeBrye> That's shiny enough
Nov 01 07:55:07 <romainguy> RyeBrye: agreed
Nov 01 07:55:12 <romainguy> but that's about it :)
Nov 01 07:55:22 <romainguy> wait for the 1.x updates to get excites
Nov 01 07:55:24 <romainguy> excited
Nov 01 07:55:28 <romainguy> I have a cool feature for Home :p
Nov 01 07:55:32 <frito> lol yeah after i updated mine i was like look rc29 oo usb on status bar ooo
Nov 01 07:56:13 <RyeBrye> I think it might change the algorithm for how they move the battery indicator - the battery info reads the same, but when it's at 60 on the battery info it has a lot more green in the battery icon than it used to I think
Nov 01 07:56:18 <RyeBrye> but I might be crazy
Nov 01 07:56:26 * frito is still waiting for stereo bluetooth and/or music sent to mono bluetooth headsets
Nov 01 07:56:36 <DarkriftX> romainguy, which is why we hosted that update all over rapidshare, to take the heat off their 3g network ;)
Nov 01 07:56:45 <romainguy> RyeBrye: the battery charge sensors suck :)
Nov 01 07:56:50 <DarkriftX> make rs foot the bw bill lol
Nov 01 07:56:57 <RyeBrye> The battery has surprisingly good live
Nov 01 07:56:59 <RyeBrye> err life
Nov 01 07:57:06 <romainguy> yes but the indicator is just a big fat lie
Nov 01 07:57:09 <romainguy> (I exaggerate)
Nov 01 07:57:11 <RyeBrye> It's just that half of that life happens to be from 10% to 0% :)
Nov 01 07:57:20 <romainguy> like sometimes it's at 15% for me
Nov 01 07:57:27 <romainguy> I reboot the phone and it's actually at 50%
Nov 01 07:57:27 <frito> yeah it works good so long as you dont blast the brightness and be a dumb user
Nov 01 07:57:35 <romainguy> (my MacBook Pro does the same for some reason)
Nov 01 07:57:51 <frito> have you done a full discharge a few times?
Nov 01 07:57:53 <romainguy> DarkriftX: glad it makes you guys feel powerful to do the update manually :)
Nov 01 07:57:56 <jsherman> what does it mean for a device to be "provisioned"
Nov 01 07:58:09 <DarkriftX> romainguy, probably using a calculation of current power to "guess" current battery left instead of checking it every 3 minutes
Nov 01 07:58:14 <romainguy> frito: yes but... I develop all day long on my devices, so they keep being plugged/unplugged :)
Nov 01 07:58:19 <RyeBrye> jsherman - it means you need to fed-ex it to me... if it's an engineering device
Nov 01 07:58:22 <romainguy> jsherman: that you went through the setupwizard
Nov 01 07:58:24 <frito> i had that same thing happening untill i killed the battery 2 times and recharged it and now my bat gauge seems to be alot more accurate
Nov 01 07:58:31 <romainguy> without provisionning, things get werid
Nov 01 07:58:32 <frito> gotcha
Nov 01 07:58:32 <jsherman> what setup wizard?
Nov 01 07:58:37 <romainguy> like the Home key not working etc
Nov 01 07:58:40 <romainguy> it doesn't exist on git
Nov 01 07:58:47 <romainguy> it's replaced by an automatic dummy app
Nov 01 07:58:50 <jsherman> ugh that is what is messing everything up
Nov 01 07:59:02 <romainguy> you can wipe your data
Nov 01 07:59:05 <romainguy> that should fix the problem
Nov 01 07:59:09 <jsherman> ?
Nov 01 07:59:18 <RyeBrye> Yeah, the LiIon batteries have their own internal thing that you can help calibrate by getting them dead as a doornail
Nov 01 07:59:20 <jsherman> didnt you say its not on git
Nov 01 07:59:31 <romainguy> jsherman: but it has a replacement
Nov 01 07:59:40 <jsherman> what does the replacement do?
Nov 01 07:59:46 <romainguy> if you were using the emulator from before the git version, you might have stale data that does weird things
Nov 01 07:59:53 <romainguy> it sets the provisioned flag
Nov 01 07:59:59 <jsherman> er
Nov 01 08:00:08 <romainguy> RyeBrye: yeah, when the manufacturer doesn't get cheap :)
Nov 01 08:00:15 <jsherman> no the emulator im using was built with git
Nov 01 08:00:20 <jsherman> and the data and system images
Nov 01 08:00:23 <romainguy> but did you use one from the SDK before?
Nov 01 08:00:32 <romainguy> on the same machine
Nov 01 08:00:35 <jsherman> yeah
Nov 01 08:00:38 <romainguy> yeah
Nov 01 08:00:39 <romainguy> so wipe data
Nov 01 08:00:45 <romainguy> or rm -Rf ~/.android
Nov 01 08:00:46 <jsherman> but isn't the data image stored in data.img?
Nov 01 08:00:49 <romainguy> no
Nov 01 08:00:53 <romainguy> that's the base data image
Nov 01 08:00:56 <jsherman> oh
Nov 01 08:01:00 <jsherman> i'm an idiot
Nov 01 08:01:00 <romainguy> data you write is stored in ~/.android
Nov 01 08:01:17 <jsherman> emulator -wipe-data will remove that stuff?
Nov 01 08:01:21 <romainguy> it should yes
Nov 01 08:01:36 <romainguy> it's something you learn quickly when you work on the source code of the Android OS :)
Nov 01 08:02:04 <romainguy> (for instance, our system currently hates being downgraded :)
Nov 01 08:02:49 <RyeBrye> How would a 'test' build differ from a 'user' build? aside from having the test keys installed with it?
Nov 01 08:03:15 <romainguy> I've never heard of test builds
Nov 01 08:03:16 <RyeBrye> I assume that the 'for-testing' keys are also held secret and aren't in any repo anywhere?
Nov 01 08:03:31 <RyeBrye> There is at least one normal person whohas one now :)
Nov 01 08:03:59 <RyeBrye> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441385&page=2
Nov 01 08:04:00 <jsherman> no
Nov 01 08:04:03 <jsherman> that did not provision it
Nov 01 08:04:20 <RyeBrye> post #19
Nov 01 08:04:33 <RyeBrye> his keys list: ota-rel-keys,for-testing,release-keys
Nov 01 08:04:36 <romainguy> lol
Nov 01 08:04:42 <romainguy> that's just a tag
Nov 01 08:04:46 <RyeBrye> ah
Nov 01 08:04:46 <RyeBrye> gotcha
Nov 01 08:04:47 <romainguy> he has a simple user build
Nov 01 08:04:47 <RyeBrye> :(
Nov 01 08:04:54 <jsherman> romainguy, it doesn't provision
Nov 01 08:04:56 <romainguy> for-testing means it was approved to go to QA
Nov 01 08:05:19 <RyeBrye> someone forgot to remove it apparently
Nov 01 08:05:27 <romainguy> doesn't matter
Nov 01 08:05:47 <jsherman> what *exactly* does provisioning entail
Nov 01 08:05:50 <jsherman> in a real build
Nov 01 08:05:56 <jsherman> i don't have a G1 so i've never seen this setup wizard
Nov 01 08:05:57 <romainguy> just what I said
Nov 01 08:06:10 <romainguy> you just enter your Google login/password
Nov 01 08:06:13 <RyeBrye> Mine was already provisioned when I got it for some random user
Nov 01 08:06:16 <romainguy> a provision flag is set to 1
Nov 01 08:06:20 <romainguy> and that's about it
Nov 01 08:06:20 <RyeBrye> apparently it had been returned before
Nov 01 08:06:25 <jsherman> what is the purpose of it?
Nov 01 08:06:53 <romainguy> jsherman: to know that you provisioned the device correctly :)
Nov 01 08:07:10 <jsherman> ok...
Nov 01 08:07:18 <jsherman> you're sure the git version has some fake provisioner?
Nov 01 08:07:20 <jsherman> i can't find it
Nov 01 08:07:32 <romainguy> it should be there
Nov 01 08:09:10 <waldo___> how do i reattach a screen session?
Nov 01 08:09:20 <gdsx> waldo___: screen -r
Nov 01 08:09:59 <romainguy> jsherman: it might be a prebuilt binary
Nov 01 08:10:07 <jsherman> ok
Nov 01 08:10:10 <jsherman> i'll keep looking
Nov 01 08:10:14 <romainguy> or the keyguard/screenlock isn't simply activated
Nov 01 08:10:22 <romainguy> I seem to recall that my mainline emulator didn't have it today
Nov 01 08:10:38 <jsherman> it isn't turning on (and also home key) b/c the device is not provisioned
Nov 01 08:11:05 <romainguy> lemme try my git tree
Nov 01 08:11:13 <waldo___> thx...   gonna try it
Nov 01 08:11:15 <jsherman> ./development/apps/SdkSetup/src/com/android/sdksetup/DefaultActivity.java:37:        System.putInt(getContentResolver(), System.DEVICE_PROVISIONED, 1);
Nov 01 08:11:20 <jsherman> okay
Nov 01 08:11:24 <jsherman> i guess that isn't getting run
Nov 01 08:11:28 <romainguy> here you go, that's the one
Nov 01 08:11:52 <romainguy> you can always go set this flag to 1 in the database yourself
Nov 01 08:12:04 <jsherman> i mean
Nov 01 08:12:11 <romainguy> yeah it doesn't work for me either
Nov 01 08:12:11 <jsherman> it seems to me these things should work, no?
Nov 01 08:12:16 <jsherman> i mean you should be able to download the source
Nov 01 08:12:18 <jsherman> compile it
Nov 01 08:12:22 <jsherman> and it should just work
Nov 01 08:12:26 <DarkriftX> anyone know what the version of "androidboy" is in the market?
Nov 01 08:12:30 <romainguy> you know, it's a HUGE project
Nov 01 08:12:37 <romainguy> and open sourcing it was NOT simple
Nov 01 08:12:46 <romainguy> in particular the entire tree layout has changed
Nov 01 08:12:46 <jsherman> yeah yeah im not complaining
Nov 01 08:12:55 <romainguy> and there are tons of build specific things
Nov 01 08:12:55 <jsherman> i thought you were saying
Nov 01 08:13:04 <romainguy> so yeah there are hiccups and I'm sorry for them :((
Nov 01 08:13:07 <jsherman> it was intended to be that way
Nov 01 08:13:10 <romainguy> I'm sure somebody's on it
Nov 01 08:13:12 <romainguy> oh no
Nov 01 08:13:18 <jsherman> i am :]
Nov 01 08:13:25 <jsherman> i fixed the dns problem, and now ill fix the other 2 issues I filed
Nov 01 08:13:26 <romainguy> I was saying it looks like a bug that we also have internally
Nov 01 08:13:47 <jsherman> ah ok
Nov 01 08:14:05 <romainguy> http://review.source.android.com/1568
Nov 01 08:14:16 <jsherman> ya
Nov 01 08:14:22 <jsherman> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=996&q=dns&colspec=ID Type Version Security Status Owner Summary
Nov 01 08:14:56 <romainguy> ok
Nov 01 08:15:22 <romainguy> I'm sad that most changes so far are for boring stuff like DNS and makefiles :p
Nov 01 08:15:34 <romainguy> why is nobody fixing my bugs in the android.* packages? :)
Nov 01 08:15:45 <romainguy> bunch of slackers you all :p
Nov 01 08:16:12 * DarkriftX fixes them with a trusty ole' rm -R *
Nov 01 08:16:15 <DarkriftX> all fixed!
Nov 01 08:16:17 <jsherman> yeah its another
Nov 01 08:16:20 <jsherman> make problem
Nov 01 08:16:31 <jsherman> SdkSetup isn't copied
Nov 01 08:22:18 <waldo-g1> ooooo
Nov 01 08:22:23 <waldo-g1> worked
Nov 01 08:24:20 <DarkriftX> ?
Nov 01 08:25:35 <gdsx> romainguy: so, does it ever rain around here?  Or are do the forecasters scare away the precipitation?
Nov 01 08:27:09 <jsherman> hmm what determines what apps are copied to /system
Nov 01 08:39:26 <romainguy> gdsx: it doesn't rain from march to november
Nov 01 08:39:49 <romainguy> jsherman: look at the Android.mk files of the apps
Nov 01 09:03:35 <jsherman> this is really confusing
Nov 01 09:03:40 <jsherman> it seems like there's two build systems
Nov 01 09:03:41 <jsherman> like
Nov 01 09:03:55 <jsherman> stuff can be included via LOCAL_MODULE_TAGS including "eng"
Nov 01 09:04:09 <jsherman> or it can be included if LOCAL_PACKAGE_NAME is listed in PRODUCT_PACKAGES
Nov 01 09:04:15 <jsherman> why are there two ways?
Nov 01 09:18:16 <ascii__> how do you add scroll to a view?
Nov 01 09:18:29 <ascii__> for example a LinearLaout..
Nov 01 09:19:19 <muthu> use a scrollview
Nov 01 09:20:24 <ascii__> does anyone have an api better than the one on code.google.com ?
Nov 01 09:20:34 <ascii__> btw, thanks muthu :)
Nov 01 09:20:56 <muthu> ascii__: welcome, the source code is the new api ;)
Nov 01 09:21:20 <muthu> there are docs in git, but not sure if its uptodate
Nov 01 09:21:46 <ascii__> i had a javadoc like api earlier..but my firefox crashed and i can't remember where i found it..
Nov 01 09:22:03 <muthu> its bundled with your sdkj
Nov 01 09:22:09 <muthu> sdk
Nov 01 09:22:25 <ascii__> i know, but that one is shit..
Nov 01 09:22:37 <muthu> that's what we got
Nov 01 09:22:42 <muthu> or build from git
Nov 01 09:23:49 <ascii__> dammit..i had a good one earlier..with frames - packages in one window, classes in the other and references in the last..
Nov 01 09:24:19 <muthu> do you have the sdk?
Nov 01 09:24:21 <JoeBrain> Happy Halloweeeeeen!
Nov 01 09:24:23 <ascii__> yes..
Nov 01 09:24:26 <muthu> check in tools folder
Nov 01 09:24:56 <muthu> happy hallooooooweeeeen
Nov 01 09:25:07 <JoeBrain> yayyy
Nov 01 09:26:09 <muthu> ascii__: if you build from git
Nov 01 09:26:18 <muthu> there are docs in 'out/target/common/docs'
Nov 01 09:26:44 <ascii__> ahh...cheers..
Nov 01 09:27:33 <ascii__> i've got one more question you prob can answer...i have a couple of listviews and stuff in my application, when i rotate my device(open the keyboard), the lists clear - how can i avoid that?
Nov 01 09:28:08 <muthu> save your state in onsaveinstancestate
Nov 01 09:28:27 <muthu> and then reload them from bundle in oncreate
Nov 01 09:32:07 <ascii__> that means i have to save every variable in use to the bundle?
Nov 01 09:32:27 <muthu> most of them would be autosaved
Nov 01 09:32:42 <muthu> but if you lose state, then manually save them
Nov 01 09:37:15 <ascii__> i can't save objects to bundle which is not serializable or parcelable ?
Nov 01 09:37:28 <muthu> yep
Nov 01 09:40:06 <ascii__> yep i can, or yep i can't? :p
Nov 01 09:40:37 <muthu> can't
Nov 01 09:40:53 <muthu> use one of the bundle methods
Nov 01 09:41:07 <muthu> putxxx
Nov 01 09:41:43 <ascii__> yea, thought so..
Nov 01 09:42:09 <muthu> big overhead.. so avoid bundling objects
Nov 01 10:05:26 <ascii__> okey, this is confusing me, so i have a onCreate() where i set listviews adapters and other stuff...when i open the keyboard, the onCreate() will be called again..is that why my list get reset?
Nov 01 10:05:49 <ascii__> or is the lists already empty before onCreate is called?ergo, it's a new instance of the activity..
Nov 01 10:06:15 <muthu> 	the activity is recreated.. so oncreate is called again
Nov 01 10:06:30 <ascii__> geez..
Nov 01 10:06:42 <ascii__> thats a, excuse me, fuckin hazzel..
Nov 01 10:06:48 <muthu> hehe
Nov 01 10:07:58 <ascii__> that means i have to go through all me ArrayAdapters, Lists etc and make 'em Arrays, then save em to the bundle, and then check if they are there in the onCreate() method..?
Nov 01 10:08:13 <muthu> yep
Nov 01 10:08:46 <muthu> lists can maintain their state
Nov 01 10:08:54 <muthu> not sure why your list is blanking out
Nov 01 10:09:17 <muthu> ha,
Nov 01 10:09:27 <muthu> yeah, so don't initialize the list in oncreate
Nov 01 10:09:32 <muthu> do it in onresume
Nov 01 10:09:49 <muthu> onstart probly
Nov 01 10:18:14 <ascii__> aha...i'll give it a shot :p
Nov 01 10:19:38 <ascii__> is there a way to simulate this in the emulator?
Nov 01 10:22:06 <muthu> cntl f11
Nov 01 10:27:18 <ascii__> i initialize my list in both onresume and onstart..blanks out anyway..
Nov 01 14:34:42 <coding> help!! Where to download the JAVA SDK installer? there is no such thing anymore in sun website
Nov 01 14:36:55 <tweakt> http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp
Nov 01 14:37:04 <tweakt> Java SE Development Kit (JDK) 6 Update 10
Nov 01 14:41:50 <coding> tweakt: which one sir?
Nov 01 14:42:13 <coding> tweakt: Java SE Development Kit (JDK) 6 Update 10   or        JDK 6 Update 10 with Java EE  ?
Nov 01 14:43:21 <tweakt> SE like I said
Nov 01 14:43:27 <coding> ah thanks\
Nov 01 14:43:46 <coding> why they dont fix that in the Google guide, its confusing
Nov 01 15:03:10 <michaelnovakjr__> did the Android File Manager get taken off the market?
Nov 01 15:05:54 <waldo_> i dunno
Nov 01 15:06:11 <michaelnovakjr__> i don't see it there anymore
Nov 01 15:06:22 <waldo_> looking
Nov 01 15:06:26 <michaelnovakjr__> that mobeegal app is terrible
Nov 01 15:06:30 <waldo_> maybe becasue of the name (?)
Nov 01 15:06:36 <michaelnovakjr__> maybe
Nov 01 15:06:51 <waldo_> i'm getting server errors on the market
Nov 01 15:07:55 <coding> may i use VIM instead of Eclipse?
Nov 01 15:08:07 <gambler> you may
Nov 01 15:08:47 <waldo_> hmm network is odd for my phone
Nov 01 15:09:04 <michaelnovakjr__> coding: you can use anything you want
Nov 01 15:09:17 <michaelnovakjr__> coding: you can build on the command line using Ant or Mvn
Nov 01 15:09:53 <waldo_> michaelnovakjr check again its the very latest by date
Nov 01 15:10:07 <gambler> coding: eclim / vimplugin is probably what your looking for
Nov 01 15:10:20 <coding> wow
Nov 01 15:10:42 <coding> how long takes to learn Android?
Nov 01 15:11:03 <waldo_> michaelnovakjr:  "In version 1.1.1 you can view the thubnails directly and hear song.  You can press the file to open it. And the edit menu will be poped up when you do one long press.  Next version has multiselect, sort, trash, more powerful pic and music function.  Updated everyweek."
Nov 01 15:11:18 <waldo_> downloading now
Nov 01 15:11:21 <gambler> coding, A thousand mile journey begins with a single step.
Nov 01 15:11:36 <coding> gambler: like 1 year?
Nov 01 15:11:52 <gambler> coding, so if your travelling 100 mph, it takes exactly 10 hours.
Nov 01 15:12:33 <waldo_> michaelnovakjr__ did you find it?
Nov 01 15:12:44 <elad1> nice metaphors gamblers
Nov 01 15:12:53 <coding> gambler: ahhh 1 month!! nice
Nov 01 15:12:59 <michaelnovakjr__> nope
Nov 01 15:13:01 <michaelnovakjr__> where is it
Nov 01 15:13:15 <gambler> elad1, thx. I can tell you how to say that in japanese too :p
Nov 01 15:13:16 <waldo_> it's at the very very top of "Applications->All->by Date"
Nov 01 15:14:13 <michaelnovakjr__> found it
Nov 01 15:17:21 <michaelnovakjr__> is it just me or can you only navigate the sdcard?
Nov 01 15:18:46 <waldo_> w/her thing?
Nov 01 15:19:11 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Nov 01 15:19:54 <waldo_> yeah... i can't scroll down
Nov 01 15:20:48 <waldo_> no controls for the music playing either
Nov 01 15:23:29 <muthu> michaelnovakjr: what's terrible about mobeegal?
Nov 01 15:24:52 <muthu> that guy is the sorest loser i've ever seen
Nov 01 15:27:14 <muthu> does nothing but bitch about others
Nov 01 15:28:14 <michaelnovakjr__> ouch
Nov 01 15:30:50 <michaelnovakjr__> so why am i a sore loser muthu?
Nov 01 15:30:50 <michaelnovakjr__> the app wouldn't work for me
Nov 01 15:31:03 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu i'm obviously not alone, the app has one star
Nov 01 15:31:09 <michaelnovakjr__> so chill :)
Nov 01 15:40:45 <elad1> anyone here own a newer thinpad, with hybrid graphics?
Nov 01 15:41:07 <gambler> elad1, yep
Nov 01 15:42:17 <elad1> how the heck do you switch from integrated back to discrete?
Nov 01 15:44:10 <gambler> dunno :/
Nov 01 15:44:42 <elad1> heh
Nov 01 15:45:00 <elad1> I opened the lid and it asked me if I wanted to switch to integrated
Nov 01 15:45:20 <gambler> maybe try #thinkpad?
Nov 01 15:45:24 <elad1> since i've never done it before I was gonna test it, but now I cant get back
Nov 01 15:50:31 <babelawra_> hi , after building android sources , how can i put it on my htc ? please
Nov 01 15:51:24 <commonsguy> if by "htc" you mean the G1, i'm not sure you can
Nov 01 15:51:30 <michaelnovakjr__> babelawra_: you can't
Nov 01 15:52:14 <commonsguy> with luck, other devices in the future will allow flashing unsigned firmware
Nov 01 15:52:25 <babelawra_> ok thx
Nov 01 15:56:25 <elad1> well I set it back via bios
Nov 01 16:22:15 <gdsx> romainguy: In Soviet California, the rain eludes you
Nov 01 16:47:54 <coding1> what JDT and WST needs to be installed in Eclipse?
Nov 01 16:49:55 <mmattice> is it just me, or do sms notifications not do anything other than make noise?   can you not make it vibrate?
Nov 01 16:50:18 <coding1> dunno, im installing eclipse
Nov 01 16:50:32 <coding1> any other models with android coming soon?
Nov 01 16:51:13 <mmattice> I've heard rumors that sprint is going to have an android phone
Nov 01 16:51:47 <commonsguy> coding1: Asus rumored early 2009, OpenMoko rumored early 2009, Motorola late 2009
Nov 01 16:52:17 <coding1> ah cool, is it necessary to get a phone to code?
Nov 01 16:52:36 <commonsguy> no
Nov 01 16:52:43 <commonsguy> the SDK comes with an emulator
Nov 01 16:52:55 <commonsguy> most of us have only had phones in the past week or two
Nov 01 16:53:07 <coding1> oh
Nov 01 16:53:12 <coding1> what model is in fashion now?
Nov 01 16:53:26 <commonsguy> the only one that's available: T-Mobile G1
Nov 01 16:53:33 <neekers> well, white or black.
Nov 01 16:53:47 <SamSerious> White?
Nov 01 16:54:04 <neekers> isn't it white? i bought a black one
Nov 01 16:54:16 <commonsguy> actually, i heard white was back at the shop due to paint-flaking problems
Nov 01 16:54:25 <neekers> oh
Nov 01 16:54:29 <commonsguy> black and 'bronze' (brown) should be available tho
Nov 01 16:54:42 <neekers> i love my black g1, it is slick
Nov 01 16:55:31 <SamSerious> mine is not.. creaking screen :( I checked brown and it feels solid
Nov 01 16:55:48 <SamSerious> but it has back light problem
Nov 01 16:56:01 <neekers> creaking screen? take it back.....
Nov 01 16:56:06 <mmattice> SamSerious: I seriously (no pun intended) doubt the bronzes won't have the same problems
Nov 01 16:56:22 <neekers> my screen does not creek
Nov 01 16:56:29 <tmccrary> my bronze rocks
Nov 01 16:56:32 <tmccrary> no creaking
Nov 01 16:57:15 <SamSerious> Yeah. I checked at tmo store..
Nov 01 16:57:36 <SamSerious> they kept both on display.
Nov 01 16:59:03 <SamSerious> tmccrary: can you send a pic of your bronze in dark with backlihgt on? I wanna see how bad it is. Probably I'll exchange with bronze.
Nov 01 16:59:56 <coding1> guys, what eclipse , WST addon should be installed?
Nov 01 17:01:17 <tmccrary> SamSerious: Sorry, I just tried but with the camera on, the backlight turns off
Nov 01 17:01:27 <tmccrary> I don't have another camera
Nov 01 17:01:49 <tmccrary> I grabbed another mirror ;(
Nov 01 17:01:52 <tmccrary> but that said, its not bad
Nov 01 17:01:55 <SamSerious> HAHAHA
Nov 01 17:02:03 <SamSerious> mirror!
Nov 01 17:02:12 <tmccrary> with the light from the keyboard and the backlight, it isn't that bad in the dark
Nov 01 17:02:18 <tmccrary> although I have pretty decent vision
Nov 01 17:02:26 <SamSerious> I have glasses :p
Nov 01 17:02:46 <tmccrary> ah, I don't
Nov 01 17:03:37 <SamSerious> OK, whats the process of sending it back? Tmobile pays for shipping?
Nov 01 17:03:58 <elad1> yo gambler you here?
Nov 01 17:06:57 <RyeBrye> http://labs.opera.com/news/2008/04/10/ probably old news, but the use of the J2ME emulator thing is a cool idea if it works fast
Nov 01 17:06:58 <coding1> SamSerious: you dont like the phone?
Nov 01 17:07:26 <SamSerious> creaking screen.. :|
Nov 01 17:07:57 <RyeBrye> I imagine the process for getting if fixed involves first calling them up
Nov 01 17:08:05 <RyeBrye> and then they will probably tell you the rest of the process
Nov 01 17:08:20 <tmccrary> What they don't say is "We developed an android port... because Apple banned us"
Nov 01 17:08:22 <tmccrary> ;)
Nov 01 17:08:28 <scootley> mmattice: home->messaging->menu:settings->notification settings->vibrate
Nov 01 17:08:36 <RyeBrye> Apple are bastards about that
Nov 01 17:08:46 <SamSerious> Ah. OK. will do
Nov 01 17:08:58 <RyeBrye> I really don't want to run Firefox on my phone, but I know they will eventually have an android version - which will be cool
Nov 01 17:09:23 <mmattice> scootley: thanks.  would think that setting would be in the main group of settings
Nov 01 17:09:24 <SamSerious> I'd prefer Opera
Nov 01 17:10:05 <tmccrary> yeah, my quad core intel at home barely handles firefox @ 2560x1600 anymore
Nov 01 17:10:12 <RyeBrye> yeah, but opera mini is really underpowered compared to webkit
Nov 01 17:10:13 <tmccrary> its gets choppy, which is sad
Nov 01 17:13:20 <halley> I *almost* don't need a voice phone at all, but want edge/g3 networking fulltime unlike finding wifi.  Too bad t-mobile has to stack a ridiculously expensive voice plan on top of the data plan (or vice versa).
Nov 01 17:14:12 <tmccrary> halley: buy a Nokia n810 instead then
Nov 01 17:14:32 <tmccrary> my voice plain is 24.99
Nov 01 17:14:35 <tmccrary> *plan
Nov 01 17:14:38 <tmccrary> not really that expensive
Nov 01 17:14:38 <halley> I have one of those.  But please read my phrase 'fulltime unlike finding wifi'.
Nov 01 17:14:53 <tmccrary> there is a version that has that
Nov 01 17:14:59 <tmccrary> I think it's from sprint?
Nov 01 17:15:08 <coding1> No repository found at https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/   Error reading update site https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/.   Unconnected sockets not implemented
Nov 01 17:15:25 <coding1> Why i get this error in Eclipse?
Nov 01 17:15:27 <halley> That's wimax which is useless in USA.
Nov 01 17:15:36 <tmccrary> ah
Nov 01 17:15:42 <coding1> halley: why is useless wimax?
Nov 01 17:16:01 <SamSerious> 3G would be nice
Nov 01 17:16:12 <halley> Coverage area of all of USA fits inside my desk drawer.
Nov 01 17:18:16 <coding1> help?
Nov 01 17:18:26 <coding1> Help, i got this error in eclipse updates: No repository found at https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/   Error reading update site https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/.   Unconnected sockets not implemented
Nov 01 17:19:03 <commonsguy> coding1: try switching to http instead of https in the URL
Nov 01 17:19:50 <coding1> works
Nov 01 17:19:52 <coding1> thank you!
Nov 01 17:34:44 <DarkriftX> i have firefox (gran paridiso) running on a handheld device. its VERY slow but it runs
Nov 01 17:35:02 <DarkriftX> 266mhz i believe it is
Nov 01 18:08:38 <DarkriftX> sure is quiet in here today
Nov 01 18:08:44 <coding> help
Nov 01 18:08:48 <coding> when i create a project
Nov 01 18:09:02 <coding> the wizard ask for 2 indentifiers in the name, whats that?
Nov 01 18:09:37 <cbeust_> Aren't these the package and the main activity name?
Nov 01 18:12:10 <WildCaterpillar> what should the firmware be after the newest update?
Nov 01 18:12:53 <frito> RC29
Nov 01 18:13:22 <WildCaterpillar> oh so not the firmware version, but the build number
Nov 01 18:13:30 <frito> yes
Nov 01 18:14:02 <WildCaterpillar> and is there a webpage which lists releases with build numbers and release dates?
Nov 01 18:14:15 <WildCaterpillar> ...eg, was this release 'tagged' on the repo?
Nov 01 18:14:24 <frito> not that i know of but theres only been 3
Nov 01 18:14:32 <zhobbs> hmm...can't figure out how to unset a contact's picture
Nov 01 18:14:44 <frito> rc19,rc28(got canceled), and rc29
Nov 01 18:15:17 <WildCaterpillar> ok.  thanks!
Nov 01 18:15:48 <WildCaterpillar> and btw, is this channel meant primarily as a user or dev channel?
Nov 01 18:16:08 <cbeust_> Either, and more
Nov 01 18:17:20 <WildCaterpillar> zhobbs: press "Menu" : "Remove Icon"
Nov 01 18:17:44 <DarkriftX> frito, do you have anymore detailed info on the releases?
Nov 01 18:17:46 <DarkriftX> filenames etc?
Nov 01 18:18:10 <DarkriftX> i was making exactly what he is asking for (list of updates and info about them) but wasnt able to find anything
Nov 01 18:18:44 <frito> i could dig up the fourm post with what has been fixed in rc29
Nov 01 18:19:31 <zhobbs> WildCaterpillar: nice, that was obvious
Nov 01 18:19:34 <zhobbs> WildCaterpillar: thanks
Nov 01 18:19:50 <frito> lol
Nov 01 18:22:36 <frito> http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=Android3&thread.id=10521
Nov 01 18:22:45 <frito> list of changes in the update
Nov 01 18:23:30 <WildCaterpillar> does someone have the repo checked out?   does 'git tag -l'  list this latest release?
Nov 01 18:23:39 <coding> Woooohooo ive made HELLO WORLD!
Nov 01 18:23:50 <frito> where would i find that
Nov 01 18:23:52 <coding> now i can call myself, Android Developer
Nov 01 18:24:42 <WildCaterpillar> find what?
Nov 01 18:24:52 <DarkriftX> ok, ty
Nov 01 18:24:57 <frito> repo  not sure what that is
Nov 01 18:25:11 <WildCaterpillar> the git repository:   http://git.android.com/
Nov 01 18:26:42 <frito> oh idk i'm not a dev and not that programmer savy etc
Nov 01 18:26:54 <frito> you want the link to the update so you could look?
Nov 01 18:27:13 <WildCaterpillar> sure
Nov 01 18:27:26 <frito> https://android.clients.google.com/updates/signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq.TC4-RC19+RC28.zip
Nov 01 18:30:01 <WildCaterpillar> hmm...anyone know how to unset a lock pattern? i have previously set one...but now i'd like to clear it altogether
Nov 01 18:30:41 <geist> look on the smudge on your screen, follow the pattern, then turn off the key lock in the settings
Nov 01 18:31:00 <WildCaterpillar> sure, i can turn "Require Pattern" off
Nov 01 18:31:08 <WildCaterpillar> but i'd really like to *clear* it
Nov 01 18:31:21 <geist> good point
Nov 01 18:31:31 <geist> guess you have to just set it to something else
Nov 01 18:31:37 <WildCaterpillar> i don't want to have to remember it 6 months from now if i ever decide to turn it back on
Nov 01 18:31:38 <frito> yea
Nov 01 18:32:15 <frito> i think the only way to clear it back to default is to do a factory reset prolly
Nov 01 18:32:39 <WildCaterpillar> sounds like this needs to be a new "feature"...
Nov 01 18:32:42 <frito> i just made mine a simple down and right pattern so its hard to forget and use it all the time
Nov 01 18:32:46 <cbeust_> WildCaterpillar: what's the difference between not requiring it and clearing it?
Nov 01 18:32:49 <coding> why the street view doesnt work in the Android emulator?
Nov 01 18:33:07 <DarkriftX> frito, that link yo just pasted, is that the rc29 update or the rc28 update :S
Nov 01 18:33:11 <WildCaterpillar> cbeust_: because i think if you ever want to change it 6 months from now, you still need to input your old one
Nov 01 18:33:38 <WildCaterpillar> cbeust_: so it requires that you remember something you arent even using....which is sad
Nov 01 18:33:43 <cbeust_> Ah I see
Nov 01 18:33:47 <frito> that is the RC29 update
Nov 01 18:33:54 <DarkriftX> ok, thats waht i thought
Nov 01 18:34:01 <frito> i know i installed it on my phone
Nov 01 18:34:18 <frito> its confusing the way they worded the file though
Nov 01 18:35:20 <frito> but if you notice it says prereq.TC4-RC19+RC28  meaning the update will update from RC19 or RC29
Nov 01 18:35:29 <DarkriftX> yeah
Nov 01 18:35:44 <DarkriftX> looks like it says anything from rc19-28 can handle that update
Nov 01 18:35:54 <frito> err yea meant to say RC28
Nov 01 18:36:26 <frito> that is possible but if there are versions between RC19-28 they were never made public
Nov 01 18:36:52 <DarkriftX> i dont like how they call them "RC"
Nov 01 18:37:01 <DarkriftX> makes me think release candidate
Nov 01 18:37:01 <WildCaterpillar> why is that?
Nov 01 18:37:07 <frito> yep
Nov 01 18:37:11 <cbeust_> That's what they are
Nov 01 18:37:12 <DarkriftX> even though most realize this is a beta
Nov 01 18:37:15 <WildCaterpillar> is it not, in their mind?
Nov 01 18:37:18 <cbeust_> and that's why we call them that
Nov 01 18:37:25 <DarkriftX> selling it as a beta seems to lower the value in my mind
Nov 01 18:37:26 <frito> we are all beta testers
Nov 01 18:37:36 <DarkriftX> yeah, that should be assumed though lol
Nov 01 18:37:50 <DarkriftX> its like throwing a big "BETA" sticker on the box
Nov 01 18:37:51 <frito> well you bought the phone not the software that part is free  ;)
Nov 01 18:37:59 * DarkriftX didnt buy anything yet
Nov 01 18:38:11 <DarkriftX> but yeah, i understand
Nov 01 18:38:32 <DarkriftX> its more about semantics then it is the fact that its actually a beta still.
Nov 01 18:41:01 <og__> can someone who is familiar with the notepadv1 tutorial... what i dont get is where the cursor adapter get attached to the notepad_list
Nov 01 18:41:25 <cbeust_> There is a setAdapter call somewhere
Nov 01 18:41:32 <cbeust_> probably getListView().setAdapter() in the activity
Nov 01 18:41:40 <cbeust_> (just guessing, I haven't looked at this tutorial in a while)
Nov 01 18:41:41 <og__> setlist adapter
Nov 01 18:41:58 <og__> sorry typing on the g1
Nov 01 18:42:12 <og__> internet down at home
Nov 01 18:42:31 <DarkriftX> see? this poor guy needs a tethering app pronto!
Nov 01 18:42:50 <coding> wow, you can connect to irc from g1?
Nov 01 18:42:57 <og__> heh
Nov 01 18:43:01 <frito> yeah i was gonna say that
Nov 01 18:43:04 <og__> connectbot
Nov 01 18:43:04 <coding> where is the installare?
Nov 01 18:43:12 <og__> to a friends box
Nov 01 18:43:18 <frito> ah
Nov 01 18:44:11 <og__> right so the main class sets its contentview to notepad_list
Nov 01 18:44:45 <og__> so setlistadapter attaches the notes_row?
Nov 01 18:45:24 <og__> hard to articulate ona small keyboard on a not perfect ssh client
Nov 01 18:45:26 <WildCaterpillar> self-signed certs for imap mail:  i've read that one must select "Use SSL (if available)".  How can i be sure that i am actually using it
Nov 01 18:46:20 <DarkriftX> anyone here know what the sd card is on the g1 (in /dev/)?
Nov 01 18:47:29 <DarkriftX> in the emu i think its mmcblk0 but someone getting errors installing shows its mmcblk0p1 and im guessing its a partition problem but wanting to validate that idea first
Nov 01 18:48:17 <DarkriftX> ok, i said that wrong. someone trying to install the upgrade is getting failures saying "E: cant mount dev/block/mmcblk0p1" and I am guessing its a partition error
Nov 01 18:48:54 <og__> hmm i think i get it
Nov 01 18:54:03 <og__> hmm perhaps i'll understand a bit better once the code gets a bit more complicated
Nov 01 18:54:34 <og__> thanks guys
Nov 01 18:56:27 <DarkriftX> anyone?
Nov 01 19:00:19 <kslater> anyone lose cell data access today?
Nov 01 19:08:45 <DarkriftX> hrmmmm, seems the g1 doesnt like the factory 1g's
Nov 01 19:08:46 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 01 19:10:01 <DarkriftX> found 4 users now all getting failure messages mounting sd during upgrade. all 4 are (or were) using the factory card (3 of them tried fat32 and fat16 and still failed). 3 of them have since tried a new card and the upgrade worked flawlessly
Nov 01 19:10:59 <coding1> any good coding tutorials for beginners?
Nov 01 19:11:14 <SamSerious> DarkriftX: same here
Nov 01 19:11:59 <DarkriftX> good to know
Nov 01 19:12:22 <coding1> .
Nov 01 19:12:28 <DarkriftX> good news is that is should NOT affect the "real" ota because from what we can tell that gets downloaded to /cache and not to the card
Nov 01 19:12:34 <SamSerious> good? I ordered 8GB one even though I don't need it ATM
Nov 01 19:12:59 <DarkriftX> well not good that it doesnt work, but good to know the pattern is being proven
Nov 01 19:13:26 <SamSerious> Only if I could copy it to phone memory's cache
Nov 01 19:13:45 <DarkriftX> well, if you could spoof googles update server you could lol
Nov 01 19:13:52 <DarkriftX> but dont think anyone found much out about that part
Nov 01 19:16:26 <gdsx> kslater: yup; I cycled the radio and it started working again
Nov 01 19:16:33 <gdsx> kslater: are you on 3G or edge?
Nov 01 19:16:34 <kslater> DarkriftX: you're saying people's sd card got whacked during the update?
Nov 01 19:16:42 <DarkriftX> no
Nov 01 19:16:48 <kslater> edge
Nov 01 19:16:59 <kslater> gdsx: you?
Nov 01 19:16:59 <DarkriftX> im saying the bootloader doesnt like the default 1g card that comes with the g1
Nov 01 19:17:06 <gdsx> hmm... dunno.  I was on 3G
Nov 01 19:17:20 <gdsx> DarkriftX: 1GB?
Nov 01 19:17:26 <DarkriftX> the g1 can read it just fine, but the bootloader fails to mount it and cannot upgrade from that card
Nov 01 19:17:35 <DarkriftX> yes
Nov 01 19:17:53 <gdsx> ok.  as cute as it might be, "1g" doesn't really make any sense
Nov 01 19:18:22 <romainguy> just got my OTA \o/
Nov 01 19:18:27 <DarkriftX> neither did 56K but it stuck for 10 years
Nov 01 19:18:44 <gdsx> DarkriftX: true
Nov 01 19:19:12 <DarkriftX> i leave the b off because it always starts wars in the linux channel about bytes/bits for some reason
Nov 01 19:19:49 <gdsx> DarkriftX: just for the record, I hate the whole "XiB" thing
Nov 01 19:20:01 <DarkriftX> i agree
Nov 01 19:20:14 <gdsx> and I also hate hard drive manufacturers for giving people to think it was a good idea
Nov 01 19:20:22 <gdsx> giving people a reason*
Nov 01 19:20:24 <DarkriftX> using case to differentiate between something when most of the world uses non case sensitive windows isnt too smart
Nov 01 19:20:44 <DarkriftX> linux users notice the difference, windows users normally dont
Nov 01 19:21:06 <cbeust_> You can always rely on the Linux crowd to fight unwinnable battles
Nov 01 19:21:24 <DarkriftX> i agree lol
Nov 01 19:21:59 <wasabi> If you want case insensitivity, it should be implemented at the UI level, imo
Nov 01 19:22:07 <wasabi> so. Linux should stay as it is. :)
Nov 01 19:22:24 <cbeust_> At the UI level?
Nov 01 19:22:39 <lethalcode> Howdy folks - I'm working on a game where the main Activity spawns the GameActivity to start the game.
Nov 01 19:22:40 <wasabi> Yes. Where you have a good text toolkit available.
Nov 01 19:22:52 <wasabi> Not at the kernel, which should only concern itself with a filename being a string of bytes.
Nov 01 19:23:18 <lethalcode> The GameActivity needs the contents of a file (That's currently at 1MB).
Nov 01 19:23:34 <lethalcode> Each GameACtivity lasts maybe 1 minute, then goes back to the main screen.
Nov 01 19:24:07 <lethalcode> If I load that 1MB into a HashMap, then pass it through to the GameActivity via Intent extra, does android clone the 1MB object, or just pass a reference?
Nov 01 19:25:04 <DarkriftX> so can anyone with a g1 do me a favor in shell: ls /dev/mmc*
Nov 01 19:25:39 <lethalcode> DarkriftX: No such file or directory, for me.
Nov 01 19:25:50 <DarkriftX> do you have your sd card inserted?
Nov 01 19:25:55 <lethalcode> Yup.
Nov 01 19:26:14 <DarkriftX> what about: cat /etc/mountd
Nov 01 19:26:17 <DarkriftX> i think thats it
Nov 01 19:26:17 <lethalcode> Oh wait, I have UMS on.
Nov 01 19:26:27 * DarkriftX opens the emu to find out
Nov 01 19:26:29 <lethalcode> Lemme disable it.
Nov 01 19:26:32 <DarkriftX> k
Nov 01 19:26:46 <SamSerious> No such file or directory
Nov 01 19:27:05 <DarkriftX> i think thats the wrong file but im checking
Nov 01 19:27:23 <DarkriftX> cat /etc/mountd.conf
Nov 01 19:27:32 <DarkriftX>     block_device    /dev/block/mmcblk0
Nov 01 19:27:39 <romainguy> lethalcode: if it's in the same process, that might be ok
Nov 01 19:28:13 <DarkriftX> ahhh, on emu, its in dev/block/, didnt even notice that before
Nov 01 19:28:28 <lethalcode> romainguy: Same process, different Activity. So it's referencing the same object?
Nov 01 19:28:33 <romainguy> it should
Nov 01 19:28:41 <lethalcode> DarkriftX: Yup, I have /dev/block/mmcblk0{,p1}
Nov 01 19:28:45 <romainguy> you can check by printing the object's identity
Nov 01 19:28:50 <DarkriftX> hrmmmmm
Nov 01 19:29:03 <lethalcode> romainguy: Perfect, thanks =).
Nov 01 19:29:08 <DarkriftX> lethalcode, what does your /etc/mountd.conf say? mmcblk0 or mmcblk0pX
Nov 01 19:29:13 <cbeust_> wasabi: it's not the kernel's role, for sure, but it definitely belongs in the file system, not the UI
Nov 01 19:29:40 <lethalcode> DarkriftX: block_device /dev/block/mmcblk0 // mount_point /sdcard // enable_ums true
Nov 01 19:29:47 <DarkriftX> hrmmmmm
Nov 01 19:29:52 <DarkriftX> that is odd
Nov 01 19:30:11 <DarkriftX> actually, the initrd must be different
Nov 01 19:30:29 <DarkriftX> the bootloader is looking for /dev/mmc* not /dev/block/mmc*
Nov 01 19:31:33 <DarkriftX> hello RyeBrye
Nov 01 19:32:11 <DarkriftX> ok, no it doesnt, one user typed the message manaully and left /block/ out :(
Nov 01 19:32:49 <DarkriftX> so back to hardware issues... the factory 1GB mini sd seems to be unmountable by the bootloader
Nov 01 19:40:41 <elad1> hey im watching a google dev vid, he calls a static property People.PREFE(it clips off the video tutorial) I assume its preference?
Nov 01 19:41:01 <elad1> however, I cant find any property near that when I call people
Nov 01 19:42:24 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - apparently it is fixed in RC29
Nov 01 19:42:36 <DarkriftX> nice
Nov 01 19:42:37 <RyeBrye> some issue with partition tables
Nov 01 19:42:40 <BruteSource> i hear there is  decent terminal emulator in the android market now?
Nov 01 19:42:54 <RyeBrye> pterminal?
Nov 01 19:42:55 <DarkriftX> BruteSource, connectbot?
Nov 01 19:43:12 <BruteSource> no thats an ssh client
Nov 01 19:43:23 <DarkriftX> i know but they were adding a lot more to it last i read in there
Nov 01 19:43:25 <BruteSource> pterminal ya
Nov 01 19:43:25 <lethalcode> There's an SSH client now? Huzzah.
Nov 01 19:43:41 <DarkriftX> ssh client has been there for a while
Nov 01 19:43:41 <BruteSource> has anyone tried pterminal?
Nov 01 19:43:43 <RyeBrye> yeah. connectbot is cool it even opens tunnels
Nov 01 19:44:13 <RyeBrye> Now we just need a cisco VPN client and I'll be able to do a bunch of server admin stuff from my phone! :)
Nov 01 19:44:25 <DarkriftX> i like how connectbot is treating it more like a small computer and less like a pretty phone with games
Nov 01 19:44:35 <elad1> long phoneid = c.getlong(c.getcolumnindex(People.PRIMARY_PHONE_ID))
Nov 01 19:44:57 <tmccrary> is it possible to setup adhoc wifi networks with the G1?
Nov 01 19:48:01 <lethalcode> DarkriftX: Does it support keys, though? I locked down my server a long time ago to pubkey auth only.
Nov 01 19:48:43 <waldo_> I can't take this shit any more I'm gonna hve to update manually..
Nov 01 19:53:41 <DarkriftX> lethalcode, not sure, i dont have it
Nov 01 19:54:13 <DarkriftX> waldo_, dont use the 1GB that came with the G1 lol
Nov 01 19:55:39 <languish> <BruteSource> has anyone tried pterminal?
Nov 01 19:55:40 <languish> yes
Nov 01 19:55:51 <languish> du, netstat and a few other commands work on it
Nov 01 19:56:25 <languish> fcking t-mobile
Nov 01 19:56:44 <languish> service outages all day, and when I call them, they say "oh you're the first one in your area to report it"
Nov 01 19:56:46 <elad1> hmm, I should be able to call Phones.CONTENT_URI.addId
Nov 01 19:56:50 <elad1> correct?
Nov 01 19:57:01 <languish> even though half the people on my block have called to report it
Nov 01 19:57:35 <languish> they're blaming the sim cards, saying if we're using the sim cards we had with our existing service, that's the cause for the problem
Nov 01 20:00:37 <lethalcode> Cripes, no pubkey auth.
Nov 01 20:00:42 <lethalcode> Still nifty =)
Nov 01 20:01:29 <languish> connectbot? yeah it's awesome and getting better
Nov 01 20:02:28 <waldo_> DarkriftX: why not?
Nov 01 20:02:47 <DarkriftX> waldo-g1, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441589
Nov 01 20:03:23 <waldo_> DarkriftX: nothing wrong in trying it though.
Nov 01 20:03:32 <waldo_> I was even thinking of trying the RC29 "for-testing" version
Nov 01 20:03:39 <SamSerious> How do you force it?
Nov 01 20:04:00 <waldo_> SamSerious: go to androidcommunity.com
Nov 01 20:04:15 <SamSerious> No, I have the same SD card problem
Nov 01 20:04:15 <coding1> where i can find tutorials on coding?
Nov 01 20:05:09 <waldo_> coding what?
Nov 01 20:07:00 <languish> coding1, tutorials and info for coding for android http://www.anddev.org/index.php?c=2
Nov 01 20:07:21 <coding1> languish: thank you !
Nov 01 20:07:28 <languish> no prob
Nov 01 20:07:42 <DarkriftX> well waldo_ seems one user has reported it working on the factory card
Nov 01 20:07:51 <waldo_> DarkriftX: yeah others have too
Nov 01 20:08:06 <waldo_> i'll try it and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
Nov 01 20:11:21 <gdsx> romainguy: for Android.mk, is there a situation where LOCAL_PACKAGE_NAME or LOCAL_CERTIFICATE would legitimately contain whitespace?
Nov 01 20:22:04 <romainguy> gdsx: I doubt it
Nov 01 20:22:06 <waldo_> DarkriftX: Update: I just did it w/the factory card.
Nov 01 20:22:19 <DarkriftX> nice
Nov 01 20:22:27 <DarkriftX> so now we have to narrow it down more :(
Nov 01 20:22:40 <DarkriftX> what specifically about the factory card causes it to fail for some but not for others
Nov 01 20:22:52 <waldo_> this was the RC19+RC28 version.. not the RC29 for-testing one
Nov 01 20:22:59 <waldo_> and the 1 gig american sd
Nov 01 20:23:00 <DarkriftX> are there any markings or brand names or anything on it?
Nov 01 20:23:26 <waldo_> honestly I've never openedi t.
Nov 01 20:23:30 <DarkriftX> LOL
Nov 01 20:23:36 <waldo_> one difference in the new firmware is that apparently this logged me into AIM...
Nov 01 20:23:42 <waldo_> the other one didn't.
Nov 01 20:23:43 <herriojr> I'm getting an Installation error: INSTALL_FAILED_SHARED_USER_INCOMPATIBLE, but I'm building both of my applications via eclipse, so they should be compatible shouldn't they?
Nov 01 20:23:48 <waldo_> or something.. I actually ahve to check my settings there.
Nov 01 20:23:50 <eleftherios> I just got a G1 as a gift. I'd like to use it without a google account and I need to unlock it. Any info on unlocking G1?
Nov 01 20:23:59 <DarkriftX> nope
Nov 01 20:24:04 <DarkriftX> call tmo and ask for a code
Nov 01 20:24:20 <DarkriftX> or pay $50'ish at that htcunlock.com site
Nov 01 20:24:32 <DarkriftX> tmo code will take a few weeks from what ive heard
Nov 01 20:24:47 <DarkriftX> and only if you are an existing customer
Nov 01 20:24:58 <waldo_> one difference-- you get a USB Connected notification when you're using USB...
Nov 01 20:25:07 <DarkriftX> also its been stated that 3g does not work on at&t on the g1
Nov 01 20:25:25 <DarkriftX> yes waldo_, seems most other updates were behind the scenes bugs
Nov 01 20:26:46 <herriojr> how do I sign an app via command line?
Nov 01 20:27:23 <eleftherios> DarkriftX: I am not in the US. Thanks.
Nov 01 20:27:47 <DarkriftX> cool
Nov 01 20:27:51 <DarkriftX> maybe it will work then :)
Nov 01 20:30:35 <eleftherios> DarkriftX: the 3G you mean?
Nov 01 20:34:30 <coding1> does Android support 3D open GL rendering?
Nov 01 20:34:50 <gdsx> coding1: it does hw-accelerated OpenGL ES 1.0, iirc
Nov 01 20:35:22 <coding1> cool
Nov 01 20:35:36 <coding1> is it possible to port WoW in the 1G?
Nov 01 20:36:09 <spikebike>  I doubt it  You might be able to port vnc or something and view desktop wow on the g1
Nov 01 20:38:55 <spikebike> 192MB ram would be tight
Nov 01 20:39:00 <spikebike> and lack of source a problem
Nov 01 20:39:09 <spikebike> and the screen is rather small
Nov 01 20:40:53 <gdsx> spikebike: also, 192MB is for the whole system, not just a single app.
Nov 01 20:41:10 <spikebike> yup
Nov 01 20:41:23 <spikebike> and of course there's the lack of native application devel
Nov 01 21:01:33 <herriojr> ok, I figured out how to fix my signature issue
Nov 01 21:02:05 <Ramblurr> if I want to use something like com.android.music.RepeatingImageButton in one of my layouts.. do i have to copy the source, or can i include it somehow?
Nov 01 21:21:45 <coding1> is there any future working as a Android developer?
Nov 01 21:22:15 <tmccrary> no
Nov 01 21:22:29 <coding1> why not
Nov 01 21:22:53 <spikebike>  heh
Nov 01 21:22:53 <cbeust_> A lot of us hope so :)
Nov 01 21:23:17 <spikebike> I think the safest thing to say is unknown
Nov 01 21:24:03 <spikebike> the market for g1 software is $0 or so
Nov 01 21:24:11 <spikebike> but does look promising
Nov 01 21:24:22 <cbeust_> You mean the current market
Nov 01 21:24:22 <spikebike> but a long way off from being larger than the iphone market
Nov 01 21:24:42 <spikebike> ya
Nov 01 21:24:47 <spikebike> the known one
Nov 01 21:25:44 <spikebike> I think it would be unwise to quit your day job and become a g1 developer
Nov 01 21:25:58 <spikebike> but certainly worth some time to get familiar with and program for
Nov 01 21:26:00 <cbeust_> I would call it Android developer, not G1 developers
Nov 01 21:26:16 <DarkriftX> anyone here know much about the signing of files in the OTA update?
Nov 01 21:26:28 <coding1> G1? like the G-Force?
Nov 01 21:26:35 <spikebike> cbeust that remains to be seen
Nov 01 21:26:49 <cbeust_> What you're writing on Android will work on other phones than the G1
Nov 01 21:26:57 <spikebike> maybe
Nov 01 21:27:04 <spikebike> java promised the same thing ;-)
Nov 01 21:27:09 <DarkriftX> i know nothign of it, but for example, would changing a line in a file "the red cat jumped over the blue ball" to "the blue cat jumped over the red ball" make a difference in the signature?
Nov 01 21:27:15 <cbeust_> Well, Java delivered pretty well
Nov 01 21:27:18 <cbeust_> and we plan to do the same
Nov 01 21:27:25 <spikebike> darkrift I'
Nov 01 21:27:31 <spikebike> d be shocked if not
Nov 01 21:27:42 <DarkriftX> me to, but i was hoping
Nov 01 21:27:44 <spikebike> cbeust the developers I've talked to disagree
Nov 01 21:28:01 <spikebike> basically every phone has to be tested
Nov 01 21:28:02 <cbeust_> spikebike: ah, they have run their code on other Android phones than the G1? :)
Nov 01 21:28:10 <spikebike> differing resolution, jvms, ram, etc.
Nov 01 21:28:19 <cbeust_> Ah you're talking about Java
Nov 01 21:28:23 <spikebike> ya
Nov 01 21:28:26 <cbeust_> I've been developing in Java for 10+ years
Nov 01 21:28:33 <coding1> will Android run in Intel Atom ?
Nov 01 21:28:35 <spikebike> write once, test everywhere ;-)
Nov 01 21:28:37 <cbeust_> JavaSE and JavaEE are very portable
Nov 01 21:28:38 <cbeust_> Java ME less so but still decent
Nov 01 21:29:16 <cbeust_> At any rate, our goal is certainly to make Android phone-agnostic
Nov 01 21:29:19 <spikebike> but different hardware, buttons, keyboard (or lack of), screens, ram, etc can make a dig difference to an application
Nov 01 21:29:27 <spikebike> cbeust undoubtedly
Nov 01 21:29:30 <cbeust_> so I stand by what I said: writing Android code will make your code run on different hardware
Nov 01 21:29:53 <spikebike> agreed
Nov 01 21:29:54 <cbeust_> Yes spikebike, there is more work to be done to cover a few hardware things that don't exist on the G1
Nov 01 21:29:57 <cbeust_> we're working on that
Nov 01 21:30:14 <spikebike> and yes android could be ported to other chips like the atom
Nov 01 21:30:19 <d0nets> any devs that play guitar want to help out with a guitar app?
Nov 01 21:30:34 <d0nets> tuner/metronome/chords/drum machine
Nov 01 21:30:56 <d0nets> i found 2 or 3 open source java apps to use
Nov 01 21:32:34 <tweakt> d0nets, PM me some info... I gotta run, but i'll be back a little later
Nov 01 21:32:56 <coding1> so basically the ones who are getting rich are IPHONE developers?
Nov 01 21:33:11 <spikebike> today, yes
Nov 01 21:33:23 <cbeust_> coding1: well, only developers that Apple allows to sell their apps :)
Nov 01 21:33:24 <tweakt> coding1, android market will be able to charge $$ after Jan 1st I think
Nov 01 21:33:32 <cbeust_> tweakt: correct
Nov 01 21:33:41 <tmccrary> well you could be selling your app
Nov 01 21:33:44 <d0nets> yea i know
Nov 01 21:33:48 <d0nets> thats what im wanting to do
Nov 01 21:33:52 <DarkriftX> some are selling them using their own sites
Nov 01 21:33:52 <d0nets> is do a basic guitar tuner
Nov 01 21:33:52 <tmccrary> you just can't do it through the official market yet
Nov 01 21:33:55 <d0nets> and basic piano tuner
Nov 01 21:34:00 <tmccrary> what about
Nov 01 21:34:00 <d0nets> then have a pro versin of each to release in januar
Nov 01 21:34:01 <d0nets> y
Nov 01 21:34:03 <tmccrary> a tuna fish
Nov 01 21:34:04 <coding1> so we have 2 months to develo anything and start to sell
Nov 01 21:34:04 <d0nets> for like .99 or 1.99
Nov 01 21:34:12 <d0nets> that includes more functionality
Nov 01 21:34:21 <DarkriftX> i think that if almost every program is $2 or less, the authors will make a lot more money from mass purchases
Nov 01 21:34:55 <DarkriftX> iphones and wm have too many apps for $30-$50 each and they dont sell that well
Nov 01 21:35:03 <DarkriftX> too much for someone to pay for a little program on their phone
Nov 01 21:35:40 <d0nets> right
Nov 01 21:36:08 <d0nets> and you know what happened when i started comming accross those 30$ apps i wanted?
Nov 01 21:36:11 <DarkriftX> whatshisname.... plusminus has a few games he is selling for $2 and I can see those selling pretty well
Nov 01 21:36:19 <d0nets> i would (p word) them
Nov 01 21:36:20 <DarkriftX> you found a warez channel on efnet
Nov 01 21:36:39 <d0nets> exactly
Nov 01 21:36:50 <DarkriftX> i know, thats what most do
Nov 01 21:37:04 <DarkriftX> which is why i think $2 would scare away less ppl and make the author more in the long run
Nov 01 21:37:11 <d0nets> right
Nov 01 21:37:17 * d0nets high fives
Nov 01 21:37:28 <DarkriftX> which in turn would motivate them to make better stuff to make more money :)
Nov 01 21:37:28 <d0nets> i mean if they do sell 600,000 phones
Nov 01 21:37:39 <DarkriftX> meaning we see better apps all the time
Nov 01 21:37:40 <d0nets> and i sold the pro version for 1.99 or .99 to 2000 people
Nov 01 21:37:45 <d0nets> thats 2000-4000 $ to make
Nov 01 21:37:48 <DarkriftX> yeah
Nov 01 21:37:51 <elad1> 1.99 not 2.00!
Nov 01 21:37:58 <d0nets> oh yes
Nov 01 21:38:00 <d0nets> lol
Nov 01 21:38:08 <DarkriftX> vs $20 and getting 100 ppl
Nov 01 21:38:14 <d0nets> right
Nov 01 21:38:22 <d0nets> its one thing if the app whipes my ass for me
Nov 01 21:38:35 <d0nets> but like dynolicious
Nov 01 21:38:40 <andyross> So far the "most popular" apps in the market are showing 50k-250k downloads.  So there's still a long way to go before any paid application sells 600k copies.
Nov 01 21:38:41 <d0nets> i use it maybe once or twice
Nov 01 21:38:43 <d0nets> and it was expensive
Nov 01 21:39:05 <DarkriftX> major gps programs or something i can see being like $10 or something, but basic stuff, like an irc client, im program, little games should be less
Nov 01 21:39:06 <d0nets> andyross i said 600k phones sold by the end of this year
Nov 01 21:39:15 <d0nets> i was saying i fi could manage to sell to 2000 people
Nov 01 21:39:35 <d0nets> hell yea
Nov 01 21:39:36 <spikebike> I'm hoping that the silly simple stuff stays free
Nov 01 21:39:41 <d0nets> and i would pay 10$ for like tom tom or somethin
Nov 01 21:39:53 <DarkriftX> thats how i do my domain sales on my site, I try to keep them as low as I can and just hope for more customers to make up for it
Nov 01 21:39:55 <spikebike> seems insane to pay for irc, irssi, ssh, etc.
Nov 01 21:40:07 <d0nets> exactly
Nov 01 21:40:09 <d0nets> and you wont
Nov 01 21:40:10 <DarkriftX> well me too, but id rather it be $2 then $20
Nov 01 21:40:11 * ttuttle has RC30 ;-)
Nov 01 21:40:17 <DarkriftX> ooooh ttuttle
Nov 01 21:40:21 <DarkriftX> hook it up :)
Nov 01 21:40:27 <jsherman> tuttle did you work on android for google
Nov 01 21:40:44 <DarkriftX> ttuttle, what was the filename?
Nov 01 21:40:46 <ttuttle> jsherman: yeah. i was an intern last summer.
Nov 01 21:40:52 <DarkriftX> im making a list of all hte updates :)
Nov 01 21:40:53 <jsherman> ah
Nov 01 21:40:58 <spikebike> noticeable
Nov 01 21:41:01 <jsherman> that's why some of the keymaps are named tuttle.kl
Nov 01 21:41:03 <ttuttle> DarkriftX: it's not flashable on regular dreams.
Nov 01 21:41:06 <spikebike> noticeable differences?
Nov 01 21:41:10 <DarkriftX> oh
Nov 01 21:41:16 <ttuttle> jsherman: no it's not!
Nov 01 21:41:19 <DarkriftX> so guess wouldnt be a good idea to add it to the list
Nov 01 21:41:26 <ttuttle> js!it just happened to be a codename
Nov 01 21:41:33 <ttuttle> er
Nov 01 21:41:39 <ttuttle> *it just
Nov 01 21:43:57 <d0nets> im still on rc19
Nov 01 21:45:28 <DJTachyon> *yawn* .. that was a long night
Nov 01 21:45:32 <DJTachyon> now to head back into manhatten
Nov 01 21:56:23 <milluminu> how come the browser doesnt do unicode and will it?
Nov 01 21:56:37 <coding1> you cant read chinese?
Nov 01 21:56:44 <milluminu> cant read arabic
Nov 01 21:58:18 <romainguy> the browser does unicode
Nov 01 21:58:28 <romainguy> there might not be an arabic font though
Nov 01 21:58:33 <milluminu> trying to make a site thats android friendly even though flash doesnt work at the moment, so no audio, but now i worry--no audio and no text
Nov 01 21:58:42 <romainguy> I know Chinese, Japanese and Russian work great
Nov 01 21:59:04 <coding1> nobody reads Arabic
Nov 01 21:59:08 <cbeust_> Left-to-right languages should display mostly correctly
Nov 01 21:59:10 <milluminu> sook, alright ill keep an eye open for arabic
Nov 01 21:59:14 <cbeust_> Right-to-left, not yet
Nov 01 21:59:20 <milluminu> aye
Nov 01 22:01:03 <BHSPitLappy> ttuttle, tell us your secrets from the inside.
Nov 01 22:01:22 <cbeust_> He can't, we put a chip in his brain that will explode if he does
Nov 01 22:01:22 <DarkriftX> its not a secret
Nov 01 22:01:32 <DarkriftX> its called "apply to work at google"
Nov 01 22:01:35 <BHSPitLappy> :(
Nov 01 22:02:39 <ttuttle> also, i hope to work for them again, and many of their employees are in this channel.
Nov 01 22:03:08 <BHSPitLappy> ttuttle, use a different nick / Mibbit
Nov 01 22:03:15 <ttuttle> ...
Nov 01 22:03:17 <ttuttle> no
Nov 01 22:05:42 <jsherman> who works on the maps app
Nov 01 22:06:02 <jsherman> and are they ever in this channel
Nov 01 22:06:06 <romainguy> nope
Nov 01 22:06:24 <ttuttle> romainguy: greetings!
Nov 01 22:06:32 <jsherman> i want to get the maps app working on the git base
Nov 01 22:06:36 <DarkriftX> any google employees know a way around the signatures in the META-INF folder on the updates they would be willing to share?
Nov 01 22:07:00 <jsherman> copying the binary Maps.apk and framework.jar from the 1.0-rc SDK to the git base fs
Nov 01 22:07:11 <jsherman> makes the maps app come up but it jsut shows a blank grid
Nov 01 22:07:15 <jsherman> with a little padlock icon in the lower left
Nov 01 22:07:26 <jsherman> and the log shows lots of:
Nov 01 22:07:32 <jsherman> D/skia    (  169): xxxxxxxxxxx jpeg error 53 Not a JPEG file: starts with 0x%02x 0x%02x
Nov 01 22:07:35 <jsherman> E/MapView (  169): IllegalStateException on drawMap. Wiping cache.
Nov 01 22:07:40 <jsherman> E/MapView (  169): java.lang.IllegalStateException: Null Bitmap!/loading_tile.png=17301864
Nov 01 22:08:06 <jsherman> the padlock seems to imply it's not supposed to work
Nov 01 22:08:13 <jsherman> but that error seems to imply maybe it should
Nov 01 22:15:10 <DaFreeze> is this a good place to ask for help?
Nov 01 22:15:52 <romainguy> DaFreeze: sure
Nov 01 22:15:53 <`vip> most of the time, DaFreeze
Nov 01 22:16:57 <DaFreeze> great :)
Nov 01 22:17:37 <DaFreeze> i'm listening to the NEW_OUTGOING_CALL intent
Nov 01 22:17:50 <DaFreeze> what id like to do is cancel the call
Nov 01 22:18:00 <DaFreeze> is that possible?
Nov 01 22:18:07 <romainguy> I don't think it is
Nov 01 22:18:35 <cbeust_> Sounds potentially hostile toward the user, why would you want to do that?
Nov 01 22:18:45 <SamSerious> Is squaretrade any good for $38.40 for 2 years?
Nov 01 22:18:56 <DaFreeze> well it wont do that always.. only under some conditions
Nov 01 22:20:53 <DaFreeze> the documentation says: Once the broadcast is finished, the resultData is used as the actual number to call. If null, no call will be placed.
Nov 01 22:21:28 <DaFreeze> but i couldnt use this information to cancel the call.. maybe you people understand more? :P
Nov 01 22:21:40 <DaFreeze> refrence* :P
Nov 01 22:21:46 <DaFreeze> whaterver
Nov 01 22:22:09 <jsherman> romainguy, any suggestion for how to go about figuring out what the problem is?
Nov 01 22:22:21 <romainguy> jsherman: nope :)
Nov 01 22:22:46 <jsherman> is there a mailing list or something the maps authors read
Nov 01 22:23:09 <BHSPitLappy> Is a Google account required just to merely use Android or a G1, or just to access Google's apps?
Nov 01 22:23:22 <cbeust_> Only a Gmail account
Nov 01 22:23:37 <romainguy> and only required for the G1
Nov 01 22:23:47 <romainguy> (at least in the US version)
Nov 01 22:23:58 <BHSPitLappy> cbeust_, sounds like a Google account :P
Nov 01 22:24:20 <DaFreeze> should i try asking later or is it 100% not possible?
Nov 01 22:24:33 <romainguy> DaFreeze: ask on the Android Google Group
Nov 01 22:24:48 <DaFreeze> ill do that
Nov 01 22:24:49 <DaFreeze> thanks
Nov 01 22:24:53 <cbeust_> Yes, sorry, thought you meant a google.com account, which is pretty restricted :)
Nov 01 22:26:38 <spikebike> actually you can skip the gmail account I believe
Nov 01 22:26:54 <spikebike> you just need to borrow a valid sim
Nov 01 22:26:58 <spikebike> or was that backwards
Nov 01 22:27:16 <romainguy> you need to sign in with a Gmail account on the first startup
Nov 01 22:27:44 <spikebike> yeah, I think you can just borrow a sim to skip that part
Nov 01 22:27:58 <romainguy> no you can't
Nov 01 22:28:00 <languish> skip, no
Nov 01 22:28:01 <cbeust_> You won't be able to skip that part easily
Nov 01 22:28:02 <romainguy> it has nothing to do with the SIM
Nov 01 22:28:21 <spikebike> I saw a work around, forget what it was exactly
Nov 01 22:28:42 <languish> people "borrow" a sim, to sign up with a gmail account, then remove it to use the phone but not have cellular service
Nov 01 22:28:52 <languish> they use it on wifi or just to test apps, whatever
Nov 01 22:29:03 <romainguy> but you still need a gmail account :)
Nov 01 22:29:06 <spikebike> ah, maybe that was it
Nov 01 22:29:12 <cbeust_> I don't see the point in this, the important part is the sim card, you can create a dummy gmail account if you want to pass that
Nov 01 22:29:19 <languish> but if the phone gets reset, they need a sim again
Nov 01 22:29:43 <BHSPitLappy> Must say that the more I find out, the less "Happy Open Sunshine" the OS seems to appear
Nov 01 22:29:57 <romainguy> ??
Nov 01 22:30:01 <romainguy> this has nothing to do with the OS
Nov 01 22:30:04 <languish> BHSPitLappy, on top of which, I'm having major headaches with t-mobile
Nov 01 22:30:47 <languish> I understand this launch is more of a beta than anything, but I wouldn't even call it a beta
Nov 01 22:31:08 <languish> tmo wasn't prepared for it
Nov 01 22:31:19 <romainguy> sorry to hear that
Nov 01 22:31:24 <BHSPitLappy> I still use AT&T and and older HTC
Nov 01 22:31:25 <romainguy> it works great in the Bay Area
Nov 01 22:31:27 <languish> yeah, *sigh* me too
Nov 01 22:31:48 <romainguy> languish: but I'm glad you complained today, I was starting to wonder if you were feeling well :)
Nov 01 22:32:12 <languish> ok, I'll move my family on to the mountainview campus, and we'll all have happy sunshine says together
Nov 01 22:32:13 <languish> :)
Nov 01 22:32:26 <languish> dude, I had an awesome night lastnight
Nov 01 22:32:49 <languish> halloween in nyc is always a blast
Nov 01 22:33:19 <languish> but part of the reason you didn't hear from me earlier today, is becaue I had no connectivity on the g1 :P
Nov 01 22:33:32 <languish> *because
Nov 01 22:33:55 <DJTachyon> oh lame
Nov 01 22:33:57 <DJTachyon> :P
Nov 01 22:34:05 <languish> sup tach
Nov 01 22:34:11 <DJTachyon> nuthin ..
Nov 01 22:34:20 <languish> how's your service been today?
Nov 01 22:34:24 <DJTachyon> i left some equipment at the club i need to go get before it gets lost
Nov 01 22:34:28 <DJTachyon> its been fine
Nov 01 22:34:37 <languish> cool
Nov 01 22:34:40 <DJTachyon> but im in NJ right now
Nov 01 22:34:45 <DJTachyon> im heading into the city now i think
Nov 01 22:35:04 <languish> right now, no 3g, just edge, which is more than we had earlier
Nov 01 22:35:09 <DJTachyon> hmm wierd
Nov 01 22:35:20 <DJTachyon> so did your deligation have a good time?
Nov 01 22:35:29 <languish> awesome dude :)
Nov 01 22:35:40 <languish> i heard a couple of them got home around 8am
Nov 01 22:35:41 <languish> lol
Nov 01 22:35:52 <DJTachyon> hehehe
Nov 01 22:36:07 <DJTachyon> those parties are always wild
Nov 01 22:36:19 <languish> yeah, I just have to question if I'm tool old for it
Nov 01 22:36:19 <languish> lol
Nov 01 22:36:49 <DJTachyon> meh the people throwing it and dj's are mostly older than me ;)
Nov 01 22:37:02 <languish> well that's the business end
Nov 01 22:37:05 <DJTachyon> true
Nov 01 22:37:18 <languish> we weren't ostracised though
Nov 01 22:37:27 <languish> couple girls tried to pick me up
Nov 01 22:37:30 <DJTachyon> hehe
Nov 01 22:37:48 <DJTachyon> good times
Nov 01 22:38:27 <DJTachyon> sorry i couldn't get you VIP or guestlist .. I would have had to find the promoter and convince him
Nov 01 22:40:06 <DJTachyon> anyway i better get down there ...
Nov 01 22:40:46 <DJTachyon> take it easy ..
Nov 01 22:46:22 <languish> Tach, no problem man, I wasn't expecting comp, getting in without headaches was nice, and the party was awesome
Nov 01 23:09:04 <eleftherios> can one put apps on the phone without getting them from the android market?
Nov 01 23:09:09 <romainguy> yes
Nov 01 23:09:15 <eleftherios> romainguy: how?
Nov 01 23:09:24 <romainguy> you can use the Eclipse plugin, the adb command line tool or a web site
Nov 01 23:09:25 <cbeust_> Any web site or adb install
Nov 01 23:09:36 <eleftherios> ah thanks
Nov 01 23:10:19 <coding1> May I play Crysis in Android phone?
Nov 01 23:10:26 <tweakt> lol
Nov 01 23:10:36 <DarkriftX> the website must have a hard link to the file (eg http://domain.com/file.apk) because other links will not work (eg http://domain.com/download.php?file=file.apk)
Nov 01 23:10:39 <jsherman> so the maps app doesn't even try to connect to google
Nov 01 23:10:47 <jsherman> when run in the git version
Nov 01 23:12:06 <romainguy> DarkriftX: even when the dynamic link returns the correct mime type?
Nov 01 23:12:15 <DarkriftX> im pretty sure
Nov 01 23:12:31 <DarkriftX> i set my mime types with dynamic downlaod components and they still failed
Nov 01 23:12:42 <Ramblurr> How exatly does bindSerivce() work?  the connection seems to happen asyncronously.. because i can't bind and start using the service immedietly
Nov 01 23:12:48 <romainguy> I really don't see how using a dynamic link would fail
Nov 01 23:12:55 <DarkriftX> i dont either
Nov 01 23:13:14 <DarkriftX> i have 3 download components and 2 of them support adding mime types, neither worked on g1's
Nov 01 23:14:10 <DarkriftX> adding mime type to htaccess file fixed hard links though, so i know i have the right mime type
Nov 01 23:15:29 * jsherman would be very grateful if a google dev happened to paste the output of 'grep -srnH lock_asset' in the maps code directory
Nov 01 23:15:45 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 01 23:16:17 <cbeust_> You don't need to set a special mime type for .apk, we take care of this in the download manager
Nov 01 23:16:17 <DarkriftX> and while they are at it, they should paste the info needed to generate the signatures needed to edit files in the OTA update
Nov 01 23:16:38 <DarkriftX> .apk files failed on the g1 until a mime type was set
Nov 01 23:16:41 <eleftherios> is there another way known way to unlock G1? (other than giving your imei # to these guys and paying $30)?
Nov 01 23:16:47 <DarkriftX> gave unknown application type error or something
Nov 01 23:17:04 <DarkriftX> but as soon as i added the mime type my static links started working
Nov 01 23:17:18 <DarkriftX> eleftherios, requesting a key from tmo if you are a customer
Nov 01 23:18:10 <jsherman> is the android-internals group broken?
Nov 01 23:18:17 <jsherman> i sent an email awhile ago and it still hasn't shown up
Nov 01 23:18:21 <romainguy> jsherman: Google Maps code is not open source, we can't give you that information
Nov 01 23:18:23 <cbeust_> I believe we are deprecating this group
Nov 01 23:18:44 <romainguy> we are
Nov 01 23:18:53 <DarkriftX> cbeust_/romainguy if one if you can prove this wrong i would be really happy :) that would allow me to re-use my old download method instead of forum topics
Nov 01 23:19:15 <eleftherios> DarkriftX: not a customer, got the phone as a gift
Nov 01 23:19:22 <eleftherios> I am not in the US
Nov 01 23:19:25 <DarkriftX> yeah, so thats all yuo can do
Nov 01 23:20:20 <jsherman> i just want to run maps on the opensource base
Nov 01 23:20:25 <jsherman> sigh
Nov 01 23:20:27 <romainguy> I understand
Nov 01 23:20:35 <romainguy> but we still cannot give you private information
Nov 01 23:20:43 <jsherman> er
Nov 01 23:20:46 <jsherman> can you tell me if
Nov 01 23:20:48 <jsherman> this is something that
Nov 01 23:20:54 <jsherman> intentionally does not work
Nov 01 23:21:01 <romainguy> I have no idea, but I highly doubt it
Nov 01 23:21:06 <jsherman> hmm ok
Nov 01 23:21:07 <romainguy> we ship Maps in the SDK after all
Nov 01 23:21:18 <romainguy> again, the source tree has completely changed in git
Nov 01 23:21:18 <coding1> does Ajax works in Android?
Nov 01 23:21:26 <romainguy> it probably broke a bunch of stuff
Nov 01 23:21:29 <romainguy> coding1: yes
Nov 01 23:21:35 <eleftherios> DarkriftX: thank you
Nov 01 23:21:51 <coding1> romainguy: full? prototype, extjs, mootools?
Nov 01 23:23:22 <DarkriftX> a mootools feature on one of my sites works in the emu browser
Nov 01 23:24:32 <jsherman> about the build system
Nov 01 23:24:45 <jsherman> it seems like there are two
Nov 01 23:24:58 <jsherman> i fixed a couple more issues
Nov 01 23:25:14 <jsherman> but again I don't know what is an appropriate patch because I don't understand the build system
Nov 01 23:25:22 <jsherman> it seems like things can get pulled in in two different ways
Nov 01 23:25:34 <jsherman> either by being included in PRODUCT_PACKAGES in the product.mk
Nov 01 23:25:48 <jsherman> or by defining some LOCAL_MODULE_TAGS = that's included by the particular target
Nov 01 23:26:08 <jsherman> and it seems like half of the things are pulled in one way, half are pulled in another
Nov 01 23:26:09 <jsherman> why?
Nov 01 23:26:24 <jsherman> is this just leftover stuff from switching between two systems?
Nov 01 23:26:42 <jsherman> or is there a reason to have two different ways to do things?
Nov 01 23:28:31 <coding1> do i need to know java to program for android?
Nov 01 23:28:36 <DarkriftX> yes
Nov 01 23:29:34 <coding1> may i avoid to learn java?
Nov 01 23:29:37 <neekers> coding1: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/index.html
Nov 01 23:29:52 <coding1> is java similar to php?
Nov 01 23:29:56 <neekers> no
Nov 01 23:30:02 <romainguy> jsherman: no, the Android.mk files haven't changed
Nov 01 23:30:24 <jsherman> ok
Nov 01 23:30:30 <romainguy> ask questions on the mailing list
Nov 01 23:30:32 <jsherman> what's with the two ways to do things then?
Nov 01 23:30:34 <jsherman> ok
Nov 01 23:31:16 <coding1> is java similar to c++ ?
Nov 01 23:31:32 <neekers> not really, it's clsoest to c#
Nov 01 23:31:40 <neekers> closest
Nov 01 23:32:21 <neekers> java has memory management and does not have pointers, which are things you have to deal with in c++
Nov 01 23:32:40 <cbeust_> To be more specific, it has pointers but not pointer arithmetic
Nov 01 23:34:22 <neekers> coding1: learning java will only make you a better programmer
Nov 01 23:36:16 <andyross> True enough.  Although there are a whole lot of bad habits Java will teach you too.  I guess that's true of everything.
Nov 01 23:37:38 <cbeust_> If you're programming in C++, you have probably acquired all the bad habits that can possibly exist :)
Nov 01 23:39:43 <andyross> No, Java's are different.  Java's libraries (com.somewhere.package.subpackage.ReallLongSymbolStringFascadeFactory) and typical block nesting (class A { void F() { try { synchronized(L) { ... }}}) lead to some of the longest lines I've seen anywhere.
Nov 01 23:40:16 <cbeust_> That's more a style question, it's pretty easy to reduce line lengths
Nov 01 23:40:27 <cbeust_> But yes, Java is verbose
Nov 01 23:40:32 <tmccrary> yeah, for a reason
Nov 01 23:40:39 <andyross> Likewise C++ programmers aren't normally in the habit of writing seven lines of markup documentation and two lines of comment convention above every private variable.  And I count "style" in the list of bad habits, FWIW.
Nov 01 23:40:41 <tmccrary> I'd rather have verbose code than stuff like _ca
Nov 01 23:40:59 <cbeust_> tmccrary++
Nov 01 23:42:22 <andyross> Symbol names should be verbose where they're required to be verbose, generally because they are used in areas of code that aren't on the same screen at the same time.  Java makes that more likely, therefore you need verbose symbols.  Other languages can be terser because, well, they're terser to begin with.  Lisp is especially good at that.
Nov 01 23:42:50 <DarkriftX> its funny if i look at my sites visitor map the visitors draw a line from north california to new york and rarely stray from that point (like florida is rare, same with seattle)
Nov 01 23:43:06 <DarkriftX> i wonder if that has to do with the availability of G1's in certain areas
Nov 01 23:43:09 <andyross> Look at some of Paul Graham's Arc examples, like the hacker news web application, for some really good examples of readable-because-it's-terse code.
Nov 01 23:43:10 <cbeust_> I would use a different word than "good", but point taken
Nov 01 23:43:32 <cbeust_> Er, no, Paul Graham's code is not exactly readable. Arc was very underwhelming too.
Nov 01 23:43:33 <coding1> How long takes to learn Java? 1 week?
Nov 01 23:43:45 <tmccrary> depends, how much programming experience do you have?
Nov 01 23:43:49 <andyross> Meh.  I liked it.  And I read a lot of code.  But I guess there's some room for taste.
Nov 01 23:43:54 <cbeust_> 1 week to learn, a lifestyle to master :)
Nov 01 23:44:03 <coding1> 10 years coding in ASP.net PHP
Nov 01 23:44:07 <tmccrary> ouch
Nov 01 23:44:11 <cbeust_> andyross: I think he could be a good coder if he didn't such an elitist attitude
Nov 01 23:44:12 <tmccrary> There is no hope for you
Nov 01 23:44:13 <andyross> You can come up to speed in Java about as fast as in anything else, actually.  It's got a very soft learning curve.
Nov 01 23:44:19 <tmccrary> ;) j/
Nov 01 23:44:20 <tmccrary> k
Nov 01 23:44:36 <tmccrary> Java is an easy language to learn, especially the basics
Nov 01 23:44:40 <tmccrary> take things one step at a time
Nov 01 23:44:56 <tmccrary> I'd say six months to be general proficient and have a decent understanding of the basics
Nov 01 23:45:04 <tmccrary> with serious use/study anyway
Nov 01 23:45:39 <coding1> what if i ditch Java and i go directly to code Android?
Nov 01 23:45:49 <cbeust_> coding1: android is in Java
Nov 01 23:45:50 <DarkriftX> erm.....
Nov 01 23:45:52 <tmccrary> uh
Nov 01 23:45:55 <cbeust_> we don't support native code
Nov 01 23:45:56 <romainguy> Java *language*
Nov 01 23:46:11 <tmccrary> Java is much easier than native programming with embedded devices, at least from a learning standpoint
Nov 01 23:46:25 <tmccrary> you will be insulated from many details and you can go straight to doing useful stuff
Nov 01 23:46:33 <tmccrary> i.e. less plumbing
Nov 01 23:47:29 <languish> tmo rep referred to the g1 as "the blackberry G1"
Nov 01 23:47:34 * languish facepalm
Nov 01 23:47:46 <SamSerious> lol
Nov 01 23:47:57 <frito> lol
Nov 01 23:48:05 <tmccrary> I read that as "tmccrary referred to g1 as "the blackberry G1"
Nov 01 23:48:27 <languish> tmccrary, it's not all about you buddy. sometimes it's about me. :P
Nov 01 23:48:33 <coding1> Thank you guys, ill start to learn java then
Nov 01 23:48:41 <SamSerious> My friends call it google phone.. lol
Nov 01 23:48:49 <languish> SamSerious, yeah, most people do
Nov 01 23:49:08 <languish> which isn't a bad thing, except for some of the negative issues around it
Nov 01 23:49:13 <michaelnovakjr__> yawn
Nov 01 23:49:21 <languish> sup michael
Nov 01 23:49:30 <michaelnovakjr__> not much, how's it going?
Nov 01 23:49:54 <languish> awesome night, many tmo outages today
Nov 01 23:50:02 <michaelnovakjr__> where are you?
Nov 01 23:50:04 <jsherman> coding1, you can start here http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/15-100-kesden/index/lecture_index.html
Nov 01 23:50:05 <Aleksey> Ummmmm how do i save threaded mms picture msgs?
Nov 01 23:50:06 <languish> nyc
Nov 01 23:50:33 <michaelnovakjr__> hm me too
Nov 01 23:50:39 <michaelnovakjr__> its been pretty good
Nov 01 23:50:50 <languish> yeah I know, you were in #android-nyc yesterday :|
Nov 01 23:50:54 <michaelnovakjr__> yea :)
Nov 01 23:51:27 <michaelnovakjr__> i haven't had any issues, 3G has been insanely fast
Nov 01 23:51:32 <michaelnovakjr__> faster than my iPhone for sure
Nov 01 23:51:46 <languish> nice, for some reason some areas are having insane outages, including voice service
Nov 01 23:51:52 <languish> currently we only have edge
Nov 01 23:52:03 <Aleksey> yeah edge
Nov 01 23:52:03 <Aleksey> here
Nov 01 23:52:11 <Aleksey> just like an outage last weekend
Nov 01 23:52:17 <Aleksey> poor service.
Nov 01 23:52:22 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm in Brooklyn (south) its been good
Nov 01 23:52:23 <Aleksey> anyhow
Nov 01 23:52:29 <Aleksey> How do I save picture messages to my pictures?
Nov 01 23:52:33 <michaelnovakjr__> i work in downtown manhattan, it was good there too
Nov 01 23:52:34 <languish> I got them to refund this months data charges
Nov 01 23:52:38 <michaelnovakjr__> nice
Nov 01 23:53:02 <languish> 5 out of 7 days connectivity problems warranted it
Nov 01 23:53:33 <michaelnovakjr__> totally
Nov 01 23:53:39 <languish> Aleksey, what do you mean "to my pictures" ?
Nov 01 23:53:43 <languish> ahh nevermind
Nov 01 23:53:49 <languish> press and hold on the picture
Nov 01 23:53:54 <languish> should give you a menu
Nov 01 23:54:01 <languish> longpress
Nov 01 23:55:03 <Aleksey> nope
Nov 01 23:55:05 <SamSerious> I like Voice dialing. Works perfect :)
Nov 01 23:55:46 <languish> yeah the voide dialing is cool, except for entries I have that have a few consonants as the first few letters
Nov 01 23:55:49 <languish> *voide
Nov 01 23:56:10 <languish> like using peoples nicks/nicknames for their entry
Nov 01 23:56:10 <donomo> how do i create a new socket? (im trying to read the assigned IP address). here is my attempt, and error, http://pastie.org/305657
Nov 01 23:56:38 <michaelnovakjr__> donomo: what are you trying to accomplish/
Nov 01 23:56:40 <romainguy> did you ask for the INTERNET permission?
Nov 01 23:56:43 <cbeust_> Did your app request the INTERNET permission?
Nov 01 23:56:47 <michaelnovakjr__> yea you need that
Nov 01 23:56:51 <donomo> oh maybe thats it heh.
Nov 01 23:56:55 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Nov 01 23:57:03 <michaelnovakjr__> its not the best error message :)
Nov 01 23:57:07 <DarkriftX> languish, 499 members
Nov 01 23:57:11 <cbeust_> Yeah sorry about that
Nov 01 23:57:12 <donomo> i'll say :)
Nov 01 23:57:43 <michaelnovakjr__> plusminus documented it on his forums, so at least it is searchable
Nov 01 23:58:19 <Aleksey> languish, you cant long press on picture
Nov 01 23:58:21 <Aleksey> only message
Nov 01 23:58:26 <SamSerious> Think I'll grab some java books. I'm not a programmer but I'd love to learn some Android programming.
Nov 01 23:58:28 <Aleksey> and that results in.. Show Slideshow
Nov 01 23:58:40 <donomo> im getting a different problem now, but i think im past the socket creation error. thanks!
Nov 01 23:58:46 <cbeust_> SamSerious: That's great to hear
Nov 01 23:58:57 <michaelnovakjr__> romainguy: onContextMenuClosed.... when that method is called is the context menu closing or already closed
Nov 01 23:59:06 <romainguy> no idea
Nov 01 23:59:07 <DarkriftX> ive been tossing the idea around myself but im not good at following through with new languages
Nov 01 23:59:10 <romainguy> check out the source code
Nov 01 23:59:17 <DarkriftX> i always learn enough to fix what im working on and then give up :(
Nov 02 00:00:04 <SamSerious> Any suggestions where to start? I've looked into hello world. But, since I don't know java I could not figure out much.. :|
Nov 02 00:00:27 <cbeust_> SamSerious: I think "Thinking in Java" is still considered a decent beginner book and it's free
Nov 02 00:01:10 <SamSerious> cool. Thanks cbeust_, I'll give it a try.
Nov 02 00:01:23 <tmccrary> Yeah, make sure you write and compile your hello world app using something like gedit and the command line tools
Nov 02 00:01:30 <tmccrary> eclipse hides a lot of stuff that you should know about
Nov 02 00:02:17 <donomo> i cant believe i have to instance a socket factory in order to instance a socket. im surprised there isnt a socket factory manager i have to instance first.
Nov 02 00:03:31 <Cedric_> donomo: pretty easy to write if you need one, but the extra flexibility offered by the factory comes in handy
Nov 02 00:03:59 <donomo> Cedric_: yeah i like factories in general, i just expected the socket creation mechanism to be a static method.
Nov 02 00:04:57 <Cedric_> Java sometimes lacks higher level convenience functions like this one (another example would be a copyFile method)
Nov 02 00:05:30 <Sorium> Yo
Nov 02 00:05:37 <elad1> Core Java by hosrtmann are all good
Nov 02 00:05:48 <elad1> horstmann
Nov 02 00:05:54 <Sorium> Is this most popular Android channel on IRC?
Nov 02 00:05:55 <romainguy> donomo: you don't have to create a socket factory
Nov 02 00:06:00 <romainguy> you can create a socket directly
Nov 02 00:06:29 <jsherman> heh actually i think the android code is probably on the better side of code i've seen in terms of not overusing patterns
Nov 02 00:06:29 <donomo> romainguy: what im using is sock = (new PlainSocketFactory()).createSocket();
Nov 02 00:06:38 <romainguy> why no new Socket()?
Nov 02 00:06:43 <romainguy> +t
Nov 02 00:07:06 <donomo> romainguy: Ha Ha. i never thought of that.
Nov 02 00:07:14 <romainguy> you have a twisted mind :)
Nov 02 00:07:29 <jsherman> on one project I worked on it seemed like the other developers tried to cram as many design patterns as possible into each file
Nov 02 00:08:00 <romainguy> it's often the mark of beginners or not-so-good programmers
Nov 02 00:08:40 <Sorium> i'm simultneously learning JAva and the Andriod SDK -- not an easy task haha
Nov 02 00:09:09 <michaelnovakjr__> new Socket() works just fine :)
Nov 02 00:11:50 <Sorium> im tryin to write an RSS reader for Android
Nov 02 00:11:58 <Sorium> anyone know any helpful links on doin this
Nov 02 00:13:10 <d0nets> how would it be innovative
Nov 02 00:13:13 <d0nets> compared to google reader
Nov 02 00:13:20 <DarkriftX> he left
Nov 02 00:13:20 <elad1> is TSheets a webview app?
Nov 02 00:13:27 <DarkriftX> wasnt popular enough for him in here
Nov 02 00:14:08 <DarkriftX> and he returns
Nov 02 00:14:11 <d0nets> sorium whats wrong with google reader
Nov 02 00:14:35 <Sorium> nothin -- just lookin for an exercise to increase my android skillz
Nov 02 00:14:51 <d0nets> help me
Nov 02 00:14:51 <d0nets> lol
Nov 02 00:14:58 <d0nets> im trying to port a guitar tuner
Nov 02 00:15:15 <michaelnovakjr__> skills ends with an s not a z
Nov 02 00:15:19 <Aleksey> How do I check for updates for installed market apps?
Nov 02 00:15:20 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Nov 02 00:15:59 <Sorium> aite
Nov 02 00:18:16 <Cedric_> Aleksey: can't right now, you need to do it manually
Nov 02 00:18:59 <jsherman> where can I find the licenses for the stuff on the G1
Nov 02 00:19:04 <jsherman> e.g. people posted ROM dumps online
Nov 02 00:19:06 <jsherman> is that legal?
Nov 02 00:19:54 <neekers> aleksey, you can have your program on the G1 perodically check a website for updates
Nov 02 00:20:10 <neekers> periodically
Nov 02 00:21:07 <coding1> what games for Android exists atm?
Nov 02 00:21:16 <neekers> and then inform the user an update is available
Nov 02 00:21:19 <Cedric_> Quite a few, look in the Games section
Nov 02 00:21:31 <Cedric_> PacMan is one of the most popular :)
Nov 02 00:22:25 <coding1> Is android able to code games similar to PSP ?
Nov 02 00:22:57 <tmccrary> Do you guys know if there are any xvid capable video players for android?
Nov 02 00:23:19 <Aleksey> neekers, how
Nov 02 00:23:49 <languish> suggestion for android.. on the screen lock screen.. allow users to add a name to the device.  We have a couple of g1's in the house and sometimes have to take a moment to figure out which is which. It'd be easier to look at the screenlock info and just "see"
Nov 02 00:23:54 <romainguy> coding1: you can write games, even 3d games, but the PSP is more powerful for games
Nov 02 00:24:09 <languish> anyway, tome for sushi
Nov 02 00:24:09 <romainguy> languish: file a feature request
Nov 02 00:24:20 <Cedric_> languish: Good point, I use a sticker on mine to tell it from my wife's
Nov 02 00:24:24 <languish> romainguy, 'k
Nov 02 00:24:29 <coding1> romainguy: so we cannot code quality games?
Nov 02 00:24:34 <romainguy> Cedric_: mine is the one with the serial number :)
Nov 02 00:24:37 <tmccrary> The G1 should be pretty comparable, if you had native access
Nov 02 00:24:39 <romainguy> coding1: I didn't say that
Nov 02 00:24:47 <tmccrary> Dalvik is what slows Android down
Nov 02 00:24:51 <Cedric_> romainguy: yeah mine only has a serial number on the keyboard
Nov 02 00:24:53 <romainguy> tmccrary: not really
Nov 02 00:24:54 <tmccrary> no hardware acceleration, no jit
Nov 02 00:25:02 <romainguy> there is hardware acceleration for OpenGL
Nov 02 00:25:10 <tmccrary> yeah but that's not what I'm talking about
Nov 02 00:25:17 <Cedric_> tmccrary: I know a few people who would say Dalvik is what makes Java fast on Android :)
Nov 02 00:25:42 <tmccrary> yeah, they'd be called "mentall challenged"
Nov 02 00:25:45 <tmccrary> *mentally
Nov 02 00:25:53 <romainguy> ...
Nov 02 00:25:56 <Cedric_> Er, not exactly, no
Nov 02 00:26:02 <Cedric_> They are actually pretty good at what they do
Nov 02 00:26:14 * romainguy remembers our prototype before Dream, it was running faster than Windows Mobile, on the same device
Nov 02 00:26:15 <romainguy> :)
Nov 02 00:26:41 <jsherman> android runs much faster on the touch than windowsmobile
Nov 02 00:26:44 <michaelnovakjr__> tmccrary: :)
Nov 02 00:26:49 <michaelnovakjr__> it makes java fast
Nov 02 00:26:54 <coding1> romainguy: and Android how many times faster than WinMob is?
Nov 02 00:27:00 <romainguy> jsherman: that's not possible, Android doesn't have a JIT!!
Nov 02 00:27:21 <jsherman> well
Nov 02 00:27:36 <jsherman> i guess by "faster" i mean
Nov 02 00:27:36 <romainguy> jsherman: that was sarcasm
Nov 02 00:27:38 <jsherman> it feels faster
Nov 02 00:27:39 <tmccrary> I'm experienced with game development, I've been the lead developer on a pretty serious game engine for PC's
Nov 02 00:27:39 <jsherman> ah ok
Nov 02 00:27:48 <michaelnovakjr__> romainguy: i think the appropriate comparsion would be Android is more responsive than WinMo
Nov 02 00:28:02 <Cedric_> tmccrary: Were you writing your games in Java?
Nov 02 00:28:03 <coding1> tmccrary: are you the one who ruined Starcraft?
Nov 02 00:28:11 <tmccrary> Cedric_: yep
Nov 02 00:28:12 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Nov 02 00:28:15 <jsherman> actually for raw #s, data transfers were faster too
Nov 02 00:28:18 <michaelnovakjr__> are you kidding?
Nov 02 00:28:28 <jsherman> which is strance since I figured winmo uses the BSD stack
Nov 02 00:28:29 <tmccrary> yes, I ruined starcraft, sorry :(
Nov 02 00:28:34 <michaelnovakjr__> tmccrary: you were writing games for windows in java?
Nov 02 00:28:36 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr__: no really, I've seen it draw faster :)
Nov 02 00:28:49 <tmccrary> games for windows in java?
Nov 02 00:28:51 <tmccrary> weh?
Nov 02 00:28:53 <jsherman> maybe they added dumb stuff ontop of it and ruined the beautiful BSD networking stack
Nov 02 00:29:23 <michaelnovakjr__> you said you wrote windows games in Java
Nov 02 00:29:31 <tmccrary> No I didn't
Nov 02 00:29:51 <michaelnovakjr__> tmccrary: Were you writing your games in Java?
Nov 02 00:30:00 <michaelnovakjr__> Cedric_: yep
Nov 02 00:30:19 <coding1> I never seen a decent Java based Game, that was atractive to play... most were boring
Nov 02 00:30:36 <tmccrary> yeah, there haven't been many
Nov 02 00:30:46 <unix_infidel> freespace2000 was in java iirc.
Nov 02 00:30:58 <tmccrary> michaelnovakjr: Yes, we have a java version of our engine, it complements our C++ implementation and is used inside eclipse for tools
Nov 02 00:31:00 <unix_infidel> erm, freespace2
Nov 02 00:31:05 <elad1> runescpae?
Nov 02 00:31:07 <elad1> :P
Nov 02 00:31:13 <tmccrary> they are based around the same set of specifications
Nov 02 00:31:25 <tmccrary> and they use the same format
Nov 02 00:31:38 <tmccrary> (s)
Nov 02 00:31:41 <michaelnovakjr__> interesting, wouldn't have thought java made sense for that
Nov 02 00:31:58 <tmccrary> Java is very, very fast today, with all the fancy JIT and everything
Nov 02 00:32:10 <Cedric_> tmccrary: interesting. Is it because Eclipse is better for development than your C++ IDE?
Nov 02 00:32:16 <coding1> what is JIT?
Nov 02 00:32:25 <tmccrary> Eclipse is our C++ IDE
Nov 02 00:32:28 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: hows it going?
Nov 02 00:32:35 <tmccrary> and our Java IDE and our python IDE
Nov 02 00:32:50 <Cedric_> tmccrary: kinda answers my question, the JDT is better than the CDT :)
Nov 02 00:33:00 <tmccrary> yeah, much better
Nov 02 00:33:05 <tmccrary> although CDT is at least usable now
Nov 02 00:33:12 <Cedric_> I hear it's making good progress
Nov 02 00:33:18 <tmccrary> there was a time when it was not very good at all
Nov 02 00:33:31 <tmccrary> I guess you could say that about Java and Eclipse as well
Nov 02 00:34:07 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187: howdy
Nov 02 00:34:19 <tmccrary> coding1: Just In Time Compilation
Nov 02 00:34:28 <michaelnovakjr__> tmccrary: Java is good for certain things, i just didn't think games was one of them
Nov 02 00:34:46 <coding1> so Android has JIT as well?
Nov 02 00:34:50 <romainguy> interestingly Java has been used for parts of games
Nov 02 00:34:51 <tmccrary> No
Nov 02 00:34:52 <Cedric_> No
Nov 02 00:35:02 <romainguy> I think it was IL2 Sturmovik that had a physics engine written in Java
Nov 02 00:35:12 <tmccrary> From a graphics standpoint, the language performance doesn't even matter today, at least with hardware accelerated paths
Nov 02 00:35:29 <Cedric_> A JIT is not that much of a clearcut improvement on a mobile device
Nov 02 00:35:36 <tmccrary> You typically try to keep most calls to the graphics api to a minimum and batch data wherever possible
Nov 02 00:35:37 <Cedric_> still worth considering though
Nov 02 00:35:43 <romainguy> a generational GC would be a much better improvement
Nov 02 00:37:06 <andatche> is there any way to empty the trash, thus removing deleted messages in the mail client?
Nov 02 00:44:06 <Korzun> still no 3g in nyc
Nov 02 00:44:07 <Korzun> JESUS
Nov 02 00:45:07 <Ramblurr> is it possible to debug services in remote sessions?
Nov 02 00:45:13 <Ramblurr> err
Nov 02 00:45:28 <elad1> wow no 3g in nyc?
Nov 02 00:45:35 <Ramblurr> is it possible to debug a remote service  (i.e., a an out of process service)?
Nov 02 00:45:36 <elad1> thats hard to believe
Nov 02 00:47:01 <michaelnovakjr__> elad1: i have 3G in New York
Nov 02 00:51:06 <Korzun> no you don't
Nov 02 00:51:08 <Korzun> you have edge
Nov 02 00:51:10 <Korzun> there is outage.
Nov 02 00:51:46 <wastrel> i'm on edge
Nov 02 00:51:57 <wastrel> but it's ok i'm at home so actually i'm on wifi
Nov 02 01:24:54 <michaelnovakjr__> Korzun: maybe for you
Nov 02 01:24:59 <michaelnovakjr__> i have the 3G icon
Nov 02 01:26:34 <andatche> is there no way to actually delete mail from trash in the mail app?
Nov 02 01:40:41 <Damm> andatche, the Email application doesn't delete mail for IMAP for me.
Nov 02 01:40:44 <Damm> so I switched to K9
Nov 02 01:41:09 <andatche> yeah, I may have to do the same
Nov 02 01:41:15 <andatche> seems a bit silly that it doesn't
Nov 02 01:45:03 <Damm> that's what you get for running a beta phone
Nov 02 01:45:05 <Damm> :)
Nov 02 01:45:21 * Damm is still waiting for rc29
Nov 02 01:45:27 <Damm> or whatever... (is on rc19)
Nov 02 01:46:01 <andatche> I'm on TC5 - RC7 apparently
Nov 02 01:46:04 <andatche> (in the uk)
Nov 02 01:46:05 <zhobbs> Damm: you can do it manually
Nov 02 01:46:10 <Damm> zhobbs, how?
Nov 02 01:46:25 <zhobbs> http://www.android-unleashed.com/2008/10/howto-manual-ota-update-instructions.html
Nov 02 01:46:31 <romainguy> andatche: yes the UK have TC5
Nov 02 01:46:49 <andatche> using any cut you can create a shortcut to a page with an update button on it
Nov 02 01:47:26 <romainguy> Damm: the update will come
Nov 02 01:47:34 <andatche> romainguy: that newer than RC29?
Nov 02 01:47:51 <romainguy> it's another branch
Nov 02 01:48:12 <Damm> romainguy, updating now.
Nov 02 01:48:13 <Damm> :)
Nov 02 01:48:16 <romainguy> so you're TC5 RC7 is the equivalent of TC4 RC29 or 28
Nov 02 01:48:27 <romainguy> with some adjustments for the UK
Nov 02 01:48:37 <andatche> oh, ok. any major differences between the branches?
Nov 02 01:48:50 <romainguy> just stuff required for UK launch
Nov 02 01:48:58 <zhobbs> no amazon
Nov 02 01:48:59 <romainguy> which are probably very minimal
Nov 02 01:53:43 <Korzun> how can i check for updates for market apps
Nov 02 01:54:27 <zhobbs> Korzun: there's no built in way to do that :(
Nov 02 01:54:51 <Cedric_> Korzun: yeah can't do that right now, but we're working on it
Nov 02 01:55:21 <Korzun> thanks
Nov 02 01:58:22 <Damm> just replace the app
Nov 02 01:58:40 <Damm> when K-9 gets updated, go to the market, and click install, and it'll overwrite the old version
Nov 02 02:07:41 <elad1> romain: around?
Nov 02 02:09:55 <elad1> man android is so lovely
Nov 02 02:09:56 <michaelnovakjr__> Damm, does that replace the accounts too?
Nov 02 02:10:20 <elad1> i must get the android tattooed on me
Nov 02 02:11:20 <Damm> michaelnovakjr__, ? accounts?
Nov 02 02:11:31 <michaelnovakjr__> for k-9
Nov 02 02:11:31 <Damm> michaelnovakjr__, you need to delete your regular Email account before you add it in K-9
Nov 02 02:11:38 <Damm> oh replacing it keeps your stuff
Nov 02 02:11:43 <michaelnovakjr__> nice
Nov 02 02:11:47 <Damm> I reinstalled K-9 and lost nothing.
Nov 02 02:12:08 <michaelnovakjr__> awesome, it would kinda suck if you had to enter your account each time you update it
Nov 02 02:12:23 <Damm> it sucked the first time.
Nov 02 02:12:33 <Damm> I had Email crash on me because my SMTP server was having issues
Nov 02 02:13:27 <michaelnovakjr__> i haven't messed with Email, i have my google apps email through the gmail app
Nov 02 02:13:37 <wastrel> i had the home app crash
Nov 02 02:13:41 <wastrel> also the browser
Nov 02 02:13:54 <Damm> I use Email because suprise... I have an IMAP account elsewhere that I want my email on
Nov 02 02:14:02 <Damm> and I refuse to have Google be my only email client.
Nov 02 02:14:26 <Damm> K-9 is just a minor upgrade to Email, if you use Gmail... stick to the built in crud
Nov 02 02:14:28 <elad1> wastrel: if you exit out of a browser close quickly, you can crash it everytime..
Nov 02 02:14:39 <elad1> also some bugs with taskmanager and home app sometimes
Nov 02 02:15:17 <Damm> i'm looking for an app to close stuff that refuses to close..
Nov 02 02:15:18 <Damm> heh
Nov 02 02:16:52 <d0nets> arent we all
Nov 02 02:17:33 <Damm> as long as it doesn't cost 19.99 I think i'll be happy.
Nov 02 02:18:08 <DarkriftX> i know its been asked but my xchat has a small buffer. If i want to get started (learning to) write stuff for android, what do i need to setup. I am on kubuntu 7.10 if that matters
Nov 02 02:18:17 <DarkriftX> do I just need the sdk?
Nov 02 02:19:17 <BHSPitLappy> that, and a latest version of Eclipse from their site
Nov 02 02:19:19 <michaelnovakjr__> DarkriftX: http://code.google.com/android
Nov 02 02:19:29 <michaelnovakjr__> that and Java 1.5 is a good idea
Nov 02 02:19:39 <BHSPitLappy> the Eclipse in the repos isn't new enough
Nov 02 02:19:42 <DarkriftX> wow, that site has changed a lot this week
Nov 02 02:19:47 <wastrel> do ou know java?
Nov 02 02:19:51 <DarkriftX> nope
Nov 02 02:19:58 <DarkriftX> but i learn fast ;)
Nov 02 02:21:36 <michaelnovakjr__> Eclipse in the repo sucks
Nov 02 02:28:06 <tweakt> do yourself a favor and go get 3.4 from eclipse.org ;-)
Nov 02 02:28:24 <tweakt> ("Ganymede")
Nov 02 02:29:17 <zhobbs> yeah, ganymede is nice
Nov 02 02:30:27 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Nov 02 02:30:33 <michaelnovakjr__> big improvement
Nov 02 02:30:47 <languish> damn, still only have edge, no 3g
Nov 02 02:31:12 <DarkriftX> ok, eclipse installed and androidized
Nov 02 02:31:14 <andatche> trying to install the eclipse plugin is causing me problems
Nov 02 02:31:27 <andatche> when trying to add the repo I just get an error saying no repo exists at .....
Nov 02 02:31:45 <andatche> this is on 3.4 EE
Nov 02 02:31:45 <DarkriftX> you on eclipse 3.3 or 3.4?
Nov 02 02:31:53 <DarkriftX> its "add site" i thought
Nov 02 02:32:39 <andatche> yeah
Nov 02 02:32:56 <andatche> add site, then I enter the url (https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/) and get an error
Nov 02 02:33:17 <DarkriftX> try removing the s on https
Nov 02 02:34:19 <andatche> nope, still the same, something is complaining about unconnected sockets not implemented
Nov 02 02:34:20 <BHSPitLappy> andatche, yeah, make it http
Nov 02 02:34:40 <BHSPitLappy> uhh
Nov 02 02:34:48 <BHSPitLappy> try again and make sure it's correct?
Nov 02 02:35:24 <andatche> ok, seems happy now
Nov 02 02:38:57 <coding> .
Nov 02 02:40:45 <Damm> retarded, can't get the update to work.
Nov 02 02:40:52 <Damm> can't mount /dev/block/mmcblk0p1
Nov 02 02:40:55 <Damm> no such file or directory
Nov 02 02:41:35 <DarkriftX> try a non factory sd card
Nov 02 02:41:48 <Damm> DarkriftX, I kinda figured that was part of the problem.
Nov 02 02:41:59 <DarkriftX> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441589
Nov 02 02:42:06 <DarkriftX> not proven yet, but seems to be the issue for a lot of ppl
Nov 02 02:42:55 <Damm> i'll just dd it, save it... then properly fdisk it
Nov 02 02:42:57 <Damm> and see if that helps
Nov 02 02:44:04 <DarkriftX> prob wont, some of the ppl with problems seemed like knowledgeable linux users and im sure they would have tried that
Nov 02 02:44:10 <DarkriftX> but please let me know if it does
Nov 02 02:44:19 <Damm> nothing to loose as i'm making a backup
Nov 02 02:45:43 <meoblast001> anyone giveing away free g1s?
Nov 02 02:45:49 <meoblast001> lol
Nov 02 02:46:09 <zhobbs> in the UK they are supposedly
Nov 02 02:46:14 <zhobbs> and still no one got one
Nov 02 02:46:43 <meoblast001> lol
Nov 02 02:46:47 <meoblast001> i have sprint
Nov 02 02:46:54 <meoblast001> but my mom said shes sick of sprint
Nov 02 02:47:04 <meoblast001> so we're going to AT&T or T-Mobile
Nov 02 02:47:11 <meoblast001> whichever one will give us the best no-contract deal
Nov 02 02:47:22 <andatche> I got my G1 free on tmobile in the UK
Nov 02 02:48:20 <Damm> oh wow... the G1 is slow for USB access
Nov 02 02:48:29 <Damm> makes me wish I had a Micro SD card reader.
Nov 02 02:49:01 <Damm> i'll just steal my woman's memory card.
Nov 02 02:50:14 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 02:50:35 <Damm> took 5minutes to copy 124meg
Nov 02 02:50:38 <Damm> via dd...
Nov 02 02:53:44 <zhobbs> Damm: that seems slow to me...
Nov 02 02:55:52 <Damm> zhobbs, you think?
Nov 02 02:55:53 <Damm> lol
Nov 02 02:56:03 <DarkriftX> w00t, im an android programmer now! i just copied and pasted my hello world and ran it. lookout world, here comes Goodbye World :S
Nov 02 02:56:05 <Damm> hrm, maybe my system
Nov 02 02:56:07 <zhobbs> hehe, I mean, seems slower than I've experienced
Nov 02 02:56:10 * DarkriftX disables sarcasm now
Nov 02 02:57:05 <zhobbs> coding on a saturday night....makes me wish I didn't procrastinate all week...
Nov 02 02:57:30 <Damm> meh
Nov 02 02:57:41 <Damm> so i'm going to just hit the power on this box as it's decided to have a fit me doing this
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 02 02:59:57 2008