**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 02 02:59:57 2008
Nov 02 03:04:49 <Damm> that's exactly it
Nov 02 03:04:55 <Damm> it's the partiton table on the factory disks
Nov 02 03:05:14 <Damm> my woman's memory card has 1 partiton while the factory disk was formatted with no actual partitons
Nov 02 03:05:24 <Damm> (e.g. mount /dev/sdb /mnt) = factory
Nov 02 03:05:28 <Damm> working one is /dev/sdb1 /mnt
Nov 02 03:06:39 <Damm> i don't know if i can modify the partiton table though the phone, and I have no clue where my microsd to sd adapter is.
Nov 02 03:07:21 <Damm> but i'll try once it's updated :)
Nov 02 03:13:00 <tweakt> where do I put audio files to have them as resources in my project?
Nov 02 03:13:39 <tweakt> 'drawable' ? seems wierd...
Nov 02 03:14:16 <zhobbs> res/raw maybe?
Nov 02 03:15:42 <DarkriftX> good to hear damn
Nov 02 03:15:56 <DarkriftX> also from what ive heard, RC29 fixes that problem so it wouldnt matter from now on anyways
Nov 02 03:16:39 <Damm> DarkriftX, now i can't seem to get it to mount on my mac.
Nov 02 03:16:40 <Damm> odd
Nov 02 03:18:47 <Damm> ah no medium found
Nov 02 03:18:51 <Damm> great
Nov 02 03:19:07 <zhobbs> you're done for
Nov 02 03:19:26 <Damm> zhobbs, on the memory card?
Nov 02 03:19:30 <Damm> it's just time to reformat it prolly
Nov 02 03:20:01 <Damm> oh i see, weird... first it comes as sdb1, then disconnects and comes back as sdb
Nov 02 03:20:04 <Damm> with no medium found
Nov 02 03:21:00 <DarkriftX> thats how sd cards always show on my system
Nov 02 03:21:08 <DarkriftX> sda, sdb, sdc
Nov 02 03:21:22 <DarkriftX> its like even thogh ejected its still registered and the next letter gets assigned
Nov 02 03:21:59 <Damm> DarkriftX, yep.
Nov 02 03:22:05 <Damm> and my mac won't see it
Nov 02 03:22:08 <Damm> i'm sure it's similar
Nov 02 03:22:32 <Damm> but the phone clearly see's it and uses it.
Nov 02 03:22:37 * Damm wishes it had OBEX already.
Nov 02 03:22:48 <DarkriftX> thats how it was before, the phone could read it but the bootloader couldnt
Nov 02 03:24:22 <Damm> well I now have a SD card I can use for the next update.
Nov 02 03:24:26 <weilawei> okay so a common method of exchanging phones is for one guy to call another, but not pick up. you go to the missed call and save the #
Nov 02 03:24:29 <weilawei> how do i do that on my g1?
Nov 02 03:24:31 <weilawei> i cant seem to find an option for it
Nov 02 03:24:46 <Damm> oh dur
Nov 02 03:24:50 <Damm> select the notification
Nov 02 03:24:55 <Damm> and it gives you an option of mount and do not mount
Nov 02 03:24:55 <weilawei> k
Nov 02 03:25:29 <weilawei> is there a firmware past 1.0 now?
Nov 02 03:25:38 * weilawei has not seen an update type of thingie
Nov 02 03:25:54 <Damm> DarkriftX, seems to be using a standard partiton table.... (non guid/gpt)
Nov 02 03:26:04 <andyross> weilawei: Not sure, but I'm pretty sure that version number refers to the boot firmware, which isn't likely to change, ever.
Nov 02 03:26:31 <weilawei> ah
Nov 02 03:26:43 <weilawei> i hope it does so we get full on bluetooth profiles
Nov 02 03:26:51 <weilawei> currently bluetooth is well nigh useless on th g1
Nov 02 03:26:55 <andyross> There was an update already pushed to the device software, which is now current at R29
Nov 02 03:27:24 <DarkriftX> Damm, is your card a sandisk?
Nov 02 03:27:41 <weilawei> andyross: uh... firmware, baseband, kernek, or build? xD
Nov 02 03:27:44 <weilawei> *kernel
Nov 02 03:27:59 <weilawei> so many versions, so little time
Nov 02 03:28:00 <Damm> DarkriftX, no
Nov 02 03:28:07 <DarkriftX> hrmmm
Nov 02 03:28:12 <Damm> transcend afaik
Nov 02 03:28:17 <DarkriftX> someone else posted they got a sandisk 1g with their g1
Nov 02 03:28:29 <DarkriftX> anything identifiable on the card itself?
Nov 02 03:28:41 <andyross> "baseband" is the goofball name of the secondary CPU that manages the phone itself.  We can't touch that, and don't really care about what software version it's running as long as it isn't buggy.  The kernel/build numbers will go together in a single release.
Nov 02 03:28:43 <DarkriftX> sanDisk 1gb 082280342OC2EJ <-- this guy said his worked
Nov 02 03:29:12 <weilawei> mine is sandisk 1g
Nov 02 03:29:20 <weilawei> just got my g1 this week
Nov 02 03:29:24 <DarkriftX> did the manual update work for you?
Nov 02 03:29:29 <DarkriftX> or did you wait for the OTA
Nov 02 03:29:31 <weilawei> manual update?
Nov 02 03:29:43 <weilawei> i havent seen anything about updates
Nov 02 03:29:44 <DarkriftX> yeah, manually forcing the OTA update
Nov 02 03:29:46 <weilawei> how do i do it?
Nov 02 03:30:01 <DarkriftX> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441282
Nov 02 03:30:23 <DarkriftX> you arent in the uk are you?
Nov 02 03:30:28 <DarkriftX> not sure if it works on uk g1's
Nov 02 03:31:33 <weilawei> does the update fix anything i need?
Nov 02 03:31:35 <weilawei> im in the US
Nov 02 03:31:39 <weilawei> cause itworks fine right now
Nov 02 03:31:41 <DarkriftX> minor bugs
Nov 02 03:31:45 <weilawei> and i dont want to mess with it since im taking a trip tomorrow
Nov 02 03:31:49 <DarkriftX> heh
Nov 02 03:32:02 <DarkriftX> fair enough, you will get it soon anyways
Nov 02 03:32:11 <DarkriftX> this is just for ppl that do not want to wait for it
Nov 02 03:32:19 <weilawei> yeah but im definitely going to play with this stuff sooner than later
Nov 02 03:32:21 <Damm> now to install a mkfs.vfat
Nov 02 03:32:35 <weilawei> ive got the adroid source and ive been reading through it, mostly the binder/servicemanager code
Nov 02 03:32:41 <weilawei> i want to run apps off the SD card
Nov 02 03:32:43 <weilawei> so im working on that
Nov 02 03:33:03 <Damm> weilawei, does android currently let you run them off the SD card?
Nov 02 03:34:59 <Damm> DarkriftX, yes you can fdisk through the phone.
Nov 02 03:35:13 <Damm> so it's totally possible to just dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=4
Nov 02 03:35:26 <Damm> then fdisk it, create a regular partiton table, then mkfs.vfat it, and put update.zip on it
Nov 02 03:35:42 * Damm waves to DannyB.
Nov 02 03:38:24 <DarkriftX> ok, i got my hello android app working. I do not know java but ive done a little bit of php/perl and some scripting. what would be the best thing for me to jump into? (i learn better editing and tweaking stuff than i do from reading).
Nov 02 03:38:57 <DarkriftX> are there any other example programs or walkthroughs i would want to look at?
Nov 02 03:39:04 <zhobbs> DarkriftX: http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial.html
Nov 02 03:39:21 <DarkriftX> ahh, thx
Nov 02 03:40:07 <Damm> so thank you all for helping me update and do a little fun
Nov 02 03:40:15 <DarkriftX> heh, enjoy
Nov 02 03:40:39 <DarkriftX> if you find out anymore about brand/serial on the card, please post here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441589
Nov 02 03:43:44 <Korzun> tmobile where is my 3g
Nov 02 03:44:03 <Korzun> sick of outages
Nov 02 03:44:15 <elad>  interesting
Nov 02 03:44:23 <elad> having trouble with goog maps
Nov 02 03:44:30 <umdk1d3> hmm is there a good way of "tinting" a textview?
Nov 02 03:44:31 <Damm> wow perfect signal
Nov 02 03:44:34 <Damm> -51 dbm
Nov 02 03:44:57 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: change textview font to be darker?
Nov 02 03:45:00 <umdk1d3> Korzun: have you called tmobile customer service?
Nov 02 03:45:12 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: well, more like making the background tinted a specific color, like greenish
Nov 02 03:45:16 <Korzun> umdk1d3, yeah.. they have recording saying its an outage
Nov 02 03:45:19 <Korzun> every weekend
Nov 02 03:45:21 <Korzun> retarded.
Nov 02 03:45:24 <umdk1d3> Korzun: ouch thats a bummer  :/
Nov 02 03:45:34 <elad> Damm: -81 here
Nov 02 03:45:39 <mimor> Is there a way to put android on a SonyEricson P910i ?
Nov 02 03:45:50 <mimor> I saw some pictures of the p990i running it :)
Nov 02 03:45:59 <gdsx> Damm: -51 is pretty sweet
Nov 02 03:46:08 <Korzun> :/
Nov 02 03:46:37 <umdk1d3> -63 dbm here  ^.^
Nov 02 03:46:43 <elad> i go and work out and because everyone is closed, i had to get a sonic burger..........
Nov 02 03:47:14 <umdk1d3> -63 on a gprs network doesnt count tho  ;)
Nov 02 03:47:49 <umdk1d3> ooh now i have -101 dbm on an edge tower lol
Nov 02 03:49:34 <zhobbs> anyone have any ideas how to setup a quick launch shortcut to the wifi settings? search + w to pull up wifi settings would be nice :)
Nov 02 03:49:43 <elad> the closer to 0 is better or?
Nov 02 03:49:46 <michaelnovakjr__> hm, trying to add my device to the computer and the device doesn't show up in the list
Nov 02 03:49:58 <Damm> -51 is just about perfect
Nov 02 03:50:01 <gdsx> elad: more-positive is better
Nov 02 03:50:11 <Damm> -101 is 2 bars
Nov 02 03:50:35 <gdsx> elad: dBm actually stands for dBmW, "decibel milliwatts"
Nov 02 03:51:02 <gdsx> elad: so it's a log scale of power (hence why it's negative)
Nov 02 03:51:29 <jasta> hehe
Nov 02 03:51:29 <gdsx> well... not power, but a power ratio
Nov 02 03:51:44 <jasta> 9pm the next night and i'm finally feeling recovered from my party last night :)
Nov 02 03:51:50 <gdsx> Damm: 2 bars because it's got two "1"s in it? :o)
Nov 02 03:52:24 <wastrel> zhobbs: anycut or there's another app on the marketplace now that would work
Nov 02 03:53:02 <wastrel> toggle settings
Nov 02 03:53:06 <zhobbs> wastrel: I couldn't figure out how to do it with anycut?  I see how to add shortcuts to your home screen, but not the quick launch
Nov 02 03:53:37 <Damm> gdsx, no, -101 is 2-3 bars
Nov 02 03:53:39 <Damm> typically 2
Nov 02 03:53:50 <wastrel> ok what's the quick launch :]
Nov 02 03:54:20 <zhobbs> wastrel: settings -> applications -> quick launch
Nov 02 03:54:28 <zhobbs> search + b = browser, search + m = maps, etc
Nov 02 03:54:49 <wastrel> oic
Nov 02 03:56:10 <zhobbs> yeah, wanted to make search + w wifi
Nov 02 03:57:10 <Damm> zhobbs, btw, I wasn't hosed.
Nov 02 03:57:13 <Damm> :)
Nov 02 04:00:00 <DannyB> Damm: how are you
Nov 02 04:00:55 <Korzun> Guys I really need to transfer MMS picture i recieved, someone please help me it's picture of my nephew
Nov 02 04:00:56 <Korzun> :\
Nov 02 04:01:02 <Korzun> I can't save it to phone or e-mail it
Nov 02 04:01:02 <elad> its possbile to modify system settings via another app, correct?
Nov 02 04:01:17 <elad> krozun, long press or menu it?
Nov 02 04:01:26 <elad> korzun*
Nov 02 04:01:35 <Korzun> Tried
Nov 02 04:01:36 <Korzun> No luck
Nov 02 04:01:42 <elad> hrm
Nov 02 04:02:18 <Damm> DannyB, doing much better now that I updated to rc29, got my card fixed :)
Nov 02 04:07:31 <Korzun> You guys updating android os?
Nov 02 04:07:38 <Korzun> Can I read up on procedure?
Nov 02 04:12:08 <romainguy_> just wait
Nov 02 04:12:15 <romainguy_> you'll get an update from T-Mobile automatically
Nov 02 04:12:50 <michaelnovakjr__> does the music player offer any intents to other apps? where can i see that info
Nov 02 04:12:53 <Korzun> romainguy_, I need to save picture from MMS :(
Nov 02 04:13:04 <elad> DarkriftX: heh
Nov 02 04:13:09 <DarkriftX> ?
Nov 02 04:13:57 <elad> <DarkriftX> w00t, im an android programmer
Nov 02 04:14:10 <elad> was in backlog thinking that was current heh
Nov 02 04:14:21 <DarkriftX> lol, couldnt resist
Nov 02 04:14:45 <DarkriftX> i went 1337 with it and made it say "Goodbye World", thats some skillz there
Nov 02 04:26:18 <muthu> yo mo jo
Nov 02 04:26:24 <muthu> slideme is hiring.. cool
Nov 02 04:27:46 <zhobbs> muthu: shane is hiring developers?
Nov 02 04:28:38 <muthu> zhobbs: yeah
Nov 02 04:28:44 <muthu> equity stake
Nov 02 04:29:10 <muthu> slideme will be a viable alternate to market
Nov 02 04:29:27 <michaelnovakjr__> eh, wouldn't you only want the one Market?
Nov 02 04:29:34 <michaelnovakjr__> its nice to have one place to look
Nov 02 04:29:41 <muthu> choice is good
Nov 02 04:29:57 <wastrel> i'm pro choice
Nov 02 04:29:58 <michaelnovakjr__> its annoying to have to download slideme because a developer only put it there
Nov 02 04:30:36 <muthu> i like the way the slideme guys have approached this
Nov 02 04:31:18 <muthu> only one market will take the consumers for a ride
Nov 02 04:31:24 <michaelnovakjr__> why?
Nov 02 04:31:24 <umdk1d3> okay seriously wtf, people are using market comments to argue about political stuff
Nov 02 04:31:39 <muthu> lol
Nov 02 04:31:42 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, how does it take them for a ride?
Nov 02 04:31:45 <umdk1d3> "vote mccain and not the antiamerican unexperienced obama"
Nov 02 04:31:56 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: isn't it what called monopoly?
Nov 02 04:32:01 <muthu> and isn't that bad for consumers?
Nov 02 04:32:02 <Cedric_> umdk1d3: what application has this comment? I'll have it removed
Nov 02 04:32:07 <umdk1d3> "vote obama 08 and yes on #2 for all us potheads thank you"   lol  :P
Nov 02 04:32:14 <geist> no dont kill the application!
Nov 02 04:32:18 <Cedric_> No
Nov 02 04:32:18 <geist> it didn't mean it
Nov 02 04:32:22 <Cedric_> I want to have the comment removed
Nov 02 04:32:25 <geist> the comments are unreleated!
Nov 02 04:33:48 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, what do you mean by taken for a ride?
Nov 02 04:33:52 <michaelnovakjr__> i dont' follow
Nov 02 04:34:15 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: for some reason, the market banned you.. for ex
Nov 02 04:34:21 <muthu> its good to have some alternates
Nov 02 04:34:24 <michaelnovakjr__> ?
Nov 02 04:34:27 <michaelnovakjr__> banned?
Nov 02 04:34:30 <michaelnovakjr__> who the developer?
Nov 02 04:34:41 <muthu> yeah, the developer or the app.. whatever
Nov 02 04:35:00 <michaelnovakjr__> i don't think you get banned unless there's good reason...
Nov 02 04:35:20 <languish> there could be controversial business reasons that have nothiong to do with the dev
Nov 02 04:35:20 <Cedric_> muthu still has a point, having alternative markets is good for everyone
Nov 02 04:35:50 <michaelnovakjr__> i guess, i just don't see myself using slideme
Nov 02 04:35:57 <languish> me either
Nov 02 04:35:58 <michaelnovakjr__> when there's already a market provided
Nov 02 04:36:08 <zhobbs> yeah, but the alternative won't be viable until google does start banning/screwing over people
Nov 02 04:36:22 <zhobbs> until then everyone will be fine with the normal Market
Nov 02 04:36:27 <muthu> yep
Nov 02 04:36:37 <michaelnovakjr__> true, but i don't see it being an issue
Nov 02 04:36:46 <michaelnovakjr__> Google stated its a security thing
Nov 02 04:36:47 <zhobbs> michaelnovakjr__: I don't think it will be either
Nov 02 04:36:50 <languish> but I do think there should be an single site for listing ALL apps, and mentioning what app store they're in, includng apps that infividual dev's may put on their own sites, and not in a market
Nov 02 04:37:04 <michaelnovakjr__> if the app got banned im not sure i'd get it somewhere else :) you never know :)
Nov 02 04:37:36 <michaelnovakjr__> i have an apk on my site, but it will definitely be in the market too
Nov 02 04:37:45 <michaelnovakjr__> makes it easy for the use
Nov 02 04:37:47 <michaelnovakjr__> r
Nov 02 04:38:11 <umdk1d3> once market takes off, i could see something like a digg-style apps list
Nov 02 04:38:13 <languish> assume some app has a piece of technology in it that google and any google affiliate is banned legally from having anything to do with due to some patent dispute
Nov 02 04:38:16 <umdk1d3> that maybe even points intents over to market
Nov 02 04:38:24 <languish> but the dev has full rights to distribute it
Nov 02 04:38:28 <umdk1d3> to really help good apps bubble up to the top over all the noise
Nov 02 04:38:33 <languish> it may get pulled from the market
Nov 02 04:39:03 <languish> does that mean consumers shouldn't have a way to get it through another market?
Nov 02 04:39:16 <muthu> a digg for android apps - great idea
Nov 02 04:39:32 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm not saying another market is a bad idea, but i just won't use those apps
Nov 02 04:39:38 <languish> lol
Nov 02 04:39:42 <michaelnovakjr__> i don't need two markets on my phone :)
Nov 02 04:39:56 <michaelnovakjr__> you don't install two AIM clients right?
Nov 02 04:40:08 <languish> what if you find apps on other markets you'd really enjoy using or need for business?
Nov 02 04:40:29 <michaelnovakjr__> i'd just write an open source one and stick it on the Google market
Nov 02 04:40:40 <michaelnovakjr__> or just not use it :) depends on importance
Nov 02 04:40:42 <muthu> alternate market makes sense already.. coz you can list your paid apps
Nov 02 04:40:48 <umdk1d3> michaelnovakjr__: there is a non-compete in the market upload terms
Nov 02 04:41:01 <michaelnovakjr__> non-compete in what way?
Nov 02 04:41:05 <umdk1d3> thats why we dont see slidemes app in googles market
Nov 02 04:41:05 <Cedric_> I
Nov 02 04:41:08 <michaelnovakjr__> if its not on the market :)
Nov 02 04:41:26 <Cedric_> 'm pretty sure that if an app gets banned from Market, it will be for good reasons and you probably won't want to use it at all, but I'm probably biased :)
Nov 02 04:41:38 <michaelnovakjr__> :) i agree Cedric_
Nov 02 04:42:08 <michaelnovakjr__> i wouldn't pay for an app either, so that kills my need for a paid market
Nov 02 04:42:15 <languish> I think both good reasons and business reasons would exist for apps being banned from the market, and the latter, is not necessarily a good reason
Nov 02 04:42:37 <michaelnovakjr__> which is why there's good and business reasons :)
Nov 02 04:42:44 <michaelnovakjr__> good distinction
Nov 02 04:42:58 <DarkriftX> umdk1d3, care to give more details on the non-compete
Nov 02 04:43:14 <DarkriftX> meaning a dev cannot put his app on the market and on another type of market?
Nov 02 04:43:16 <languish> and then there's reasons of legality, which may or may not fall under business reasons
Nov 02 04:43:37 <languish> and I don't mean "illegal" or unlawful
Nov 02 04:43:41 <michaelnovakjr__> yea umdk1d3 what does the non-compete include?
Nov 02 04:43:55 <umdk1d3> DarkriftX: its meant to prevent adding a second "Market"-like app into Market for distribution
Nov 02 04:44:03 <michaelnovakjr__> ah
Nov 02 04:44:07 <umdk1d3> so like adding the SlideMe app to Google's Market
Nov 02 04:44:14 <DarkriftX> oh, i c
Nov 02 04:44:18 <RyeBrye> Ah
Nov 02 04:44:19 <languish> which is a good business reason :)
Nov 02 04:44:22 <michaelnovakjr__> what about two RSS Readers, a crappy one and a good one ?
Nov 02 04:44:32 <michaelnovakjr__> does that not apply
Nov 02 04:44:34 <umdk1d3> you still can totally list your normal app in any number stores/markets you want
Nov 02 04:44:50 <michaelnovakjr__> makes sense
Nov 02 04:45:00 <umdk1d3> ive played with the OI reader, it works--but havent tried the other one
Nov 02 04:45:17 <umdk1d3> ive been halfway creeped out by the permissions some of these apps ask for, and so i dont install them
Nov 02 04:45:20 <michaelnovakjr__> i haven't tried either yet
Nov 02 04:45:24 <michaelnovakjr__> umdk1d3: yea
Nov 02 04:45:29 <umdk1d3> liek why does weather channel need to send txt msgs?  o.o
Nov 02 04:45:42 <michaelnovakjr__> umdk1d3: i was going to have Glance ask for your location
Nov 02 04:45:44 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Nov 02 04:45:51 <umdk1d3> roooofl  :P
Nov 02 04:46:00 <michaelnovakjr__> umdk1d3: and to place calls
Nov 02 04:46:21 <michaelnovakjr__> if you lose a file, you'll be able to find it :)
Nov 02 04:46:26 <umdk1d3> hmm we need a THERMITE permission to go along with BRICK  ;)
Nov 02 04:46:28 <michaelnovakjr__> thank you GPS
Nov 02 04:46:50 <languish> forget thermite, make it DETONATE
Nov 02 04:47:11 <zhobbs> how do you set the name of the SharedPreferences being editted by a PreferenceActivity?
Nov 02 04:47:19 <RyeBrye> Yes, DETONATE - would go great with the hand-grenade intent of my improved iSafe
Nov 02 04:47:26 <umdk1d3> thermite is best for hard drive data tho, i think it might be just as good for flash memory
Nov 02 04:47:29 <languish> heh
Nov 02 04:47:47 <languish> thermite's great for whatever material you wanna slag
Nov 02 04:47:48 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: you can override  getSharedPreferences() on the PreferenceActivity
Nov 02 04:47:48 <RyeBrye> Thermite is also good for terminators
Nov 02 04:47:58 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: thanks :)
Nov 02 04:48:07 <languish> RyeBrye, depends on what model :P
Nov 02 04:48:28 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: you could check the requested name there, or feed it an explicit SharedPreferences there
Nov 02 04:49:07 <RyeBrye> I think someone activated Thermite on my battery
Nov 02 04:49:11 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: actually, don't see getSharedPreferences()
Nov 02 04:49:16 <RyeBrye> little bugger gets warm
Nov 02 04:49:48 <zhobbs> hmm, getPreferencesManager.getSharedPreferencesName()
Nov 02 04:49:55 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: looks like its inherited down into PreferenceActivity from ContextWrapper
Nov 02 04:50:08 <umdk1d3> but its there in PreferenceActivity
Nov 02 04:50:13 <zhobbs> oh, ok
Nov 02 04:50:23 <Cedric_> You can override that name, it just changes the name of the .xml file that gets saved
Nov 02 04:50:50 <umdk1d3> Cedric_: ah cool  :)  that deffy makes it easier
Nov 02 04:51:11 <Damm> umdk1d3, use weatherbug... weaterhchannel is nasty/dirty.
Nov 02 04:51:15 <Cedric_> FYI, you'll find it in somewhere like /data/data/<package>/shared_preferences/Foo.xml
Nov 02 04:51:15 <Damm> weatherchannel*
Nov 02 04:51:21 <Cedric_> or something like that
Nov 02 04:51:36 <zhobbs> Cedric_: yeah, but I have existing preferences, but don't use PreferenceActivity...so on the next upgrade I'd rather have the new PreferenceActivity edit the existing preference file
Nov 02 04:51:40 <Damm> quite frankly I find weatherchannel and accuweather to be a waste of an install.
Nov 02 04:51:54 <umdk1d3> Damm: why does weatherbug need my contact information tho?  o.o
Nov 02 04:52:06 * umdk1d3 creeped out
Nov 02 04:52:11 <zhobbs> weather channel asks for every permissions ever invented
Nov 02 04:52:13 <languish> there's some warning about weatherbug in various forums
Nov 02 04:52:15 <Cedric_> zhobbs: makes sense. You could also transparently upgrade the old name to a newone
Nov 02 04:52:26 <zhobbs> Cedric_: yeah, considering that also...
Nov 02 04:52:29 <Damm> umdk1d3, to find out where you live.
Nov 02 04:52:33 <Cedric_> umdk1d3: sometimes, apps require the CONTACTS preference when all they need is to email or SMS
Nov 02 04:52:36 <Damm> umdk1d3, that's less annoying then the rest.
Nov 02 04:52:39 <languish> i haven't bothered to read about it though as I don't intend to use weatherbug
Nov 02 04:52:46 <umdk1d3> sigh there are /intents/ for sending email tho that dont need all that lol
Nov 02 04:52:49 <Damm> umdk1d3, and you can send a snapshot of it.
Nov 02 04:52:57 <Damm> via sms/email
Nov 02 04:53:19 <Cedric_> umdk1d3: I know, but it's a mistake that's easy to make it (and I made it myself :) )
Nov 02 04:54:00 <Damm> umdk1d3, that and atleast weatherbug does what it should and has a nice overlay for radar.
Nov 02 04:54:21 <DarkriftX> well, i think multiple markets are a good thing, but i dont see the second ones becoming very popular for the first 6-12 months
Nov 02 04:54:30 <umdk1d3> speaking of asking for too many intents, does "fine" resolution location inherit the "course" resolution as well?  im asking for both permissions right now to be sure
Nov 02 04:54:33 <DarkriftX> ppl need time to build preferences and find reasons to use the others
Nov 02 04:56:37 <zhobbs> umdk1d3, Cedric_ : looks like you can just getPreferenceManager().setSharedPreferencesName(PREFS_NAME); in the PreferenceActivity's onCreate()
Nov 02 04:56:52 <umdk1d3> ah cool
Nov 02 04:56:56 <malaclyps> hmm so i've created a custom view which inherits from SurfaceView, but the onDraw method isn't being called on startup in the emulator
Nov 02 04:57:03 <malaclyps> do I need to dirty it or something?
Nov 02 04:57:18 <malaclyps> it seems to be being called in Eclipse's layout manager ok
Nov 02 04:58:27 <malaclyps> hmm, interesting, maybe I just need to be using View
Nov 02 04:58:56 <zhobbs> malaclyps: not sure that's how you're supposed to work with a Surface...noticed in LunarLander they don't use onDraw
Nov 02 04:59:27 <mleste1> how do u install an app on a real android phone as opposed to just the emulator
Nov 02 04:59:28 <malaclyps> zhobbs: right -- maybe i'm overcomplicating it by using surfaceview. It's odd that it works in the layout manager though.
Nov 02 05:00:17 <zhobbs> malaclyps: with SurfaceView you can edit the Surface's canvas from any thread
Nov 02 05:00:44 <zhobbs> malaclyps: with View you just call invalidate and do everything in onDraw() in the UI thread
Nov 02 05:00:47 <romainguy_> malaclyps: if you override SurfaceView, you're not supposed to override onDraw
Nov 02 05:00:54 <romainguy_> just use a normal View
Nov 02 05:01:58 <zhobbs> mleste1: you install an app on the phone the same as on an emulator
Nov 02 05:02:10 <zhobbs> "adb install <apk>"
Nov 02 05:02:18 <mleste1> ok cool
Nov 02 05:02:31 <mleste1> and if the emulator isn't running then it will default to the device
Nov 02 05:02:38 <zhobbs> mleste1: yeah
Nov 02 05:02:49 <mleste1> ok sounds good to me :)
Nov 02 05:03:07 <michaelnovakjr__> zhobbs: don't you have to specify -d for device?
Nov 02 05:03:09 <zhobbs> mleste1: or you can use the -d flag to send to the device if the emulator is running
Nov 02 05:03:23 <zhobbs> michaelnovakjr__: only if the emulator is running
Nov 02 05:03:34 <michaelnovakjr__> zhobbs: don't you have to specify -d for device?
Nov 02 05:03:37 <michaelnovakjr__> ah
Nov 02 05:03:45 <michaelnovakjr__> forgot i had an emulator running
Nov 02 05:03:48 <mleste1> ok gotcha
Nov 02 05:04:10 <RyeBrye> umdk1d3 - you use myth too?
Nov 02 05:04:58 <jsherman> where is the debug.keystore for the git release?
Nov 02 05:05:11 <jsherman> it doesn't look like one is made in ~/.android
Nov 02 05:05:24 <romainguy_> what keystore?
Nov 02 05:05:47 <RyeBrye> the release keystore... I lost my copy - someone want to send it to me?
Nov 02 05:05:54 <jsherman> the dev docs say that in the SDK, you are automatically given a default debug keystore
Nov 02 05:06:11 <jsherman> and it is written to ~/.android/debug.keystore
Nov 02 05:06:24 <zhobbs> RyeBrye: maybe they'll fall for it next time :)
Nov 02 05:06:37 <RyeBrye> I limit it to once a day, but maybe... just maybe... ;)
Nov 02 05:06:49 <romainguy_> jsherman: that should be done by the Eclipse plugin
Nov 02 05:06:51 <romainguy_> not by the SDK
Nov 02 05:06:55 <jsherman> oh
Nov 02 05:06:58 <romainguy_> even less by the git tree
Nov 02 05:06:58 <jsherman> im not using eclipse
Nov 02 05:07:19 <jsherman> I see
Nov 02 05:07:52 <jsherman> er is the intent for the git tree to replace the SDK
Nov 02 05:08:03 <jsherman> and so people who are just writing apps will use that
Nov 02 05:08:04 <zhobbs> jsherman: http://code.google.com/android/devel/sign-publish.html
Nov 02 05:08:45 <jsherman> or is the intent to have the git tree be for those who want to make changes to the core OS, and google will release a separate (much smaller, maybe even binary-only) SDK for those who only want to develop apps
Nov 02 05:09:06 <jsherman> zhobbs, yeah, that applies to the SDK release, I'm using the git tree
Nov 02 05:09:13 <romainguy_> er no
Nov 02 05:09:16 <romainguy_> the SDK is the SDK
Nov 02 05:09:22 <romainguy_> the git tree is the open source source tree
Nov 02 05:09:31 <romainguy_> the SDK will remain what it is
Nov 02 05:09:34 <romainguy_> it's for apps developers
Nov 02 05:09:53 <swetland> the SDK is buildable from the git tree and yes will remain as a piece that is available for standalone install for apps developers
Nov 02 05:10:02 <jsherman> ah ok
Nov 02 05:10:59 <DarkriftX> hey, its that impostor swetland again!
Nov 02 05:11:21 <swetland> I believe the 1.0rX SDK is not currently 1:1 with what you'd generate from the 1.0 git tree due to some variation between them (there was a lot of shuffling and cleanup for the open source effort), but they should be converging (at some point the standard core sdk will be 1:1 with make sdk from the standard core git tree)
Nov 02 05:11:29 <swetland> dark: curses, foiled again!
Nov 02 05:11:42 <jsherman> ok I get it
Nov 02 05:12:04 <jsherman> hmm
Nov 02 05:12:12 <jsherman> so for the maps key signing
Nov 02 05:12:32 <jsherman> if the maps app is using google's own key
Nov 02 05:12:39 <jsherman> does it also require the base framework be signed by google?
Nov 02 05:16:34 <romainguy_> uh?
Nov 02 05:16:36 <gdsx> swetland: so, I'm sure there'll be another opportunity.  I wanted to mess with the Segway because I was wearing my "I wanna roll with the gangstas, but I'm too white and nerdy" shirt and wearing my noogler cap
Nov 02 05:16:48 <gdsx> swetland: would make for an awesome photo :o)
Nov 02 05:18:00 <jsherman> oh hey i should have run showcommands it's in build/target/product/security/testkey.x509.pem
Nov 02 05:18:39 <mleste1> do you need a driver to connect a g1 to adb
Nov 02 05:18:48 <gdsx> mleste1: what OS?
Nov 02 05:18:48 <romainguy_> on Windwos yes
Nov 02 05:19:23 <michaelnovakjr__> mleste1: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware
Nov 02 05:21:05 <mleste1> thanks
Nov 02 05:22:01 <michaelnovakjr__> np
Nov 02 05:23:09 <DarkriftX> i just had one of those really funny ideas that you wont ever do anything with, but its almost good enough to try
Nov 02 05:23:21 <swetland> gsdx: ahahah
Nov 02 05:23:39 <DarkriftX> Mandroid.com, Pr0n for your Android device!
Nov 02 05:24:08 <swetland> mleste1: you only need a device driver on win32. linux and osx thankfully have some sane apis for usb access from userspace
Nov 02 05:27:10 <zhobbs> DarkriftX: haha, I saw someone say that TuneWiki should include pr0n in its video search in the Market comments
Nov 02 05:27:30 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 05:28:32 <zhobbs> wonder if a porn app would get banned from the Market
Nov 02 05:28:37 <RyeBrye> Mandroid would be male porn (or gay porn)?
Nov 02 05:28:54 <zhobbs> RyeBrye: that's what it sounds like
Nov 02 05:29:04 <RyeBrye> Shedroid would be a more logical name for female robot porn
Nov 02 05:29:18 <mleste1> hey how do u create a widget like that retard analog clock
Nov 02 05:29:19 <BHSPitLappy> I'm perfectly fine with robot porn
Nov 02 05:29:47 <BHSPitLappy> The clock is a retard?
Nov 02 05:30:06 <mleste1> retarded*
Nov 02 05:30:31 <wastrel> you can remove the clock
Nov 02 05:31:02 <mleste1> yeah I know
Nov 02 05:31:29 * Damm was hoping to see more wigets already...
Nov 02 05:31:39 <Damm> clock widgets to be exact
Nov 02 05:32:04 <mleste1> sorry the use of derogatory terms distracted from my real question
Nov 02 05:32:13 <mleste1> is how do u develop an app like that
Nov 02 05:36:26 <scootley> does anyone notice the time in the upper right of the notification bar stuck at 12:59? (east coast US) i wonder if this is a DST bug
Nov 02 05:36:31 <RyeBrye> Yeah... where ARE the widgets?
Nov 02 05:36:37 * RyeBrye has a widget conspiracy theory
Nov 02 05:37:13 <RyeBrye> There are a handful of weather applications but no weather widgets?
Nov 02 05:37:22 <Damm> RyeBrye, yep... sad huh
Nov 02 05:37:26 <Damm> scootley, tonight is DST isn't it?
Nov 02 05:37:33 <mleste1> I haven't seen any widgets period
Nov 02 05:37:42 <mleste1> except for the ones that came preoloded
Nov 02 05:37:43 <scootley> tonight is DST fallback, in ~22 mins
Nov 02 05:37:50 <tomgibara> You can't build widgets yet
Nov 02 05:38:09 <mleste1> ah not open yet
Nov 02 05:38:12 <tomgibara> Apps can add shortcuts to the desktop though.
Nov 02 05:39:58 <spikebike> scootley for your timezone
Nov 02 05:40:40 <Damm> scootley, right so expect a little fun, nothing unusual as we gain an hour.
Nov 02 05:40:57 <Damm> my woman is going to try and go to work an hour early... woops
Nov 02 05:41:20 <scootley> in my time zone, US East, fallback has not yet occurred. the time in the upper right of my G1 is stuck at 12:59, while the clock displayed on the "unlock" screen is correct at 1:40 right now
Nov 02 05:42:39 <DarkriftX> wow, xda-devs site go down for anyone else?
Nov 02 05:44:44 <RyeBrye> nope
Nov 02 05:44:52 <DarkriftX> lol scootley thats funny
Nov 02 05:45:25 <DarkriftX> G1Y2K, DST Strikes Back
Nov 02 05:46:21 <jasonparekh_> zhobbs: re: your earlier question on search+w for wi-fi, in the quick launch activity chooser, you can do Menu > Shortcuts
Nov 02 05:47:48 <zhobbs> jasonparekh_: nice, thanks!
Nov 02 05:51:02 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: Yeah... where ARE the widgets? << you can't create widgets
Nov 02 05:51:24 <romainguy_> Damm was hoping to see more wigets already... << not possible at the moment
Nov 02 05:51:52 <RyeBrye> Ah... my conspiracy theory is validated
Nov 02 05:51:57 <RyeBrye> we're being held back by the man
Nov 02 05:52:00 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 02 05:52:07 <romainguy_> the man being me
Nov 02 05:52:13 <RyeBrye> You da man?
Nov 02 05:52:15 <romainguy_> me not having time to do it :)
Nov 02 05:52:16 <DJTachyon> so yeah definately some wierd connectivity issues in NYC
Nov 02 05:52:30 <scootley> yeah the upper-right time, the analog clock on the home screen (widget), and the time display on the unlock screen are all different and actually each incorrect right now. very strange
Nov 02 05:52:37 <RyeBrye> less talky - more widget makey
Nov 02 05:52:38 <DJTachyon> banging from 4 bars of 3G to nothing to 4 bars of EDGE to nothing and back again
Nov 02 05:52:38 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 02 05:52:47 <romainguy_> scootley: that is weird indeed
Nov 02 05:52:58 <romainguy_> especially since the code they use should be pretty much the same
Nov 02 05:54:27 <tomgibara> Is this just me, or is it extremely difficult to build a library for android? Packaging it as an apk would be much easier, but users can't be expected to install dependencies manually.
Nov 02 05:54:31 <DJTachyon> *yawn* .. okay two night in NYC is enough to make me beat
Nov 02 05:54:33 <DJTachyon> gnight all
Nov 02 05:55:45 <tomgibara> I don't know what the best solution is, but I think the android platform needs significant work in the direction of supporting apk dependencies.
Nov 02 05:56:50 <BruteSource> i hear all this talk of being able to buy a g1 for 400 usd with no contract, but every store tells me its not true?
Nov 02 05:57:14 <romainguy_> tomgibara: like I said several times, we know and we're planning/working on it
Nov 02 05:57:16 <BruteSource> its evenin  tmobile press release
Nov 02 05:58:02 <BruteSource> it is even in a tmobile press release i mean
Nov 02 05:58:36 <tomgibara> romainguy_: I hadn't seen you make those comments. I think from a 'strategic engineering' perspective (if there is such a thing) it's a very high priority.
Nov 02 05:58:38 <BruteSource> something about having it for 3 months month to month gets it unlocked as well
Nov 02 05:58:54 <Cedric_> tomgibara: It is high, but there were higher priorities for 1.0
Nov 02 05:59:24 <tomgibara> Cedric_: Obviously, or it would have been in 1.0 :)
Nov 02 05:59:32 <BruteSource> but no one in the stores will sell it without a contract, so wtf
Nov 02 05:59:32 <romainguy_> tomgibara: the problem is that there are higher priorities :))
Nov 02 05:59:40 <romainguy_> everyone has a different idea of high priorities
Nov 02 05:59:53 <zhobbs> http://benno.id.au/blog/2008/11/02/android-on-neo1973
Nov 02 06:00:40 <BruteSource> seems like a load of mininformation to me
Nov 02 06:00:51 <BruteSource> misinformation*
Nov 02 06:01:04 <tomgibara> I understand that, I'm just giving feedback. As an external developer, I can state with confidence that the lack of the capability is almost paralyzing for building some functionality.
Nov 02 06:01:19 <zhobbs> BruteSource: I think I've heard of people getting them for $400
Nov 02 06:01:58 <BruteSource> i have heard lots of people saying they have heard of people, just havent talked to someone who has themselfs
Nov 02 06:02:28 <Cedric_> tomgibara: Impractical, for sure, but paralyzing?
Nov 02 06:02:39 <BruteSource> and why would 4 different stores in seattle tell me they cant sell them ful retail, and 2 in portland told my friend the same?
Nov 02 06:03:02 <BruteSource> full
Nov 02 06:03:08 <tomgibara> Well, here's a concrete example: I want to improve my hasty little Veecheck library: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/
Nov 02 06:03:30 <meoblast001> anyone here see the G2?
Nov 02 06:03:42 <BruteSource> when you try to buy it online you get all the way through and it says to call tmobile
Nov 02 06:04:01 <BruteSource> g2 is a myth lol
Nov 02 06:04:08 <meoblast001> is it?
Nov 02 06:04:11 <tomgibara> I want to make a modest improvement where the library handles remembering whether a notification was displayed and display an activity allowing the user to 'ignore future updates'.
Nov 02 06:04:11 <meoblast001> www.thinkgos.com
Nov 02 06:04:14 <romainguy_> tomgibara: I understand and welcome your feedback
Nov 02 06:04:16 <BruteSource> next android phone will be a motorola
Nov 02 06:04:17 <meoblast001> selling for 800 dollars
Nov 02 06:04:19 <meoblast001> i want one
Nov 02 06:04:30 <romainguy_> I'm just saying that we have about a million of "high priority" features :)
Nov 02 06:04:32 <meoblast001> G2 isnt a phone
Nov 02 06:04:40 <meoblast001> its a computer
Nov 02 06:04:49 <BruteSource> oh your saying there is already a g2 and its for sale? lmao
Nov 02 06:04:50 <meoblast001> made by a company obsessed with Google and Apple lol
Nov 02 06:04:59 <BruteSource> eww
Nov 02 06:05:04 <meoblast001> their OS looks just like Mac but contains millions of Google features
Nov 02 06:05:07 <BruteSource> forget that
Nov 02 06:05:07 <summatusmentis> so I saw the G1 for the first time this weekend... beautiful
Nov 02 06:05:13 <RyeBrye> The G1 is nice
Nov 02 06:05:20 <tomgibara> The problem is that there is effectively no way to bundle any layout/graphics etc. with the library - so supporting UI is impractical to the point of impossibility.
Nov 02 06:05:27 <elad> you can buy a G1 of ebay
Nov 02 06:05:37 <elad> off
Nov 02 06:05:43 <RyeBrye> I need to find where to get a backpack full of batteries for it though
Nov 02 06:05:43 <romainguy_> tomgibara: you could use RemoteViews
Nov 02 06:05:50 <BruteSource> ya for like 550 dollars plus shiping for a new one fuck that
Nov 02 06:05:52 <tomgibara> The only other option is to build an APK, but that requires the user to install a separate apk.
Nov 02 06:06:05 <RyeBrye> and it's annoying that if it's plugged into USB it wont have enough juice to keep alive while you swap batteries
Nov 02 06:06:24 <RyeBrye> (although it does have enough juice to pull the battery out if you are on the booloader screen and attached to USB)
Nov 02 06:06:27 <BruteSource> tmobile is supposed to be selling them contract free for 400 dollars
Nov 02 06:06:37 <tomgibara> romainguy_: I've looked into that, but it seems slightly backwards for my purposes. I'll take another look.
Nov 02 06:06:40 <RyeBrye> BruteSource - ETF is only $200
Nov 02 06:06:49 <BruteSource> so?
Nov 02 06:06:57 <RyeBrye> BruteSource - so buy at wallmart, pay a month, and then terminate the contract and you get it for $348
Nov 02 06:06:57 <romainguy_> tomgibara: well it lets you use layouts from anoter apk/process
Nov 02 06:07:08 <BruteSource> what does that have to do with the price of eans in china?
Nov 02 06:07:10 <RyeBrye> well.. $348 + the month
Nov 02 06:07:19 <zhobbs> tomgibara: you could check for the existence of the dependency on the first boot and send them to the market to install it
Nov 02 06:07:25 <RyeBrye> BruteSource, this is #android, not #brute-source-bitches-about-tmobile
Nov 02 06:07:31 <RyeBrye> :P
Nov 02 06:07:36 <BruteSource> if i could get on a contract with tmobile, don't you think i would have already?
Nov 02 06:07:43 <RyeBrye> Oh, gotcha
Nov 02 06:07:44 <romainguy_> Cedric_: nice blog :)
Nov 02 06:07:47 <tomgibara> romainguy_: Yes, I'm familiar with it. But there was something about it that didn't quite fit right, maybe I need to change my thinking.
Nov 02 06:07:51 <BruteSource> go troll somewhrere else
Nov 02 06:07:52 <romainguy_> Cedric_: reminds me of 2008, 2007, ... 1997
Nov 02 06:08:05 <Cedric_> romainguy_: haha
Nov 02 06:08:07 <Cedric_> Couldn't help it
Nov 02 06:08:15 <romainguy_> you bet
Nov 02 06:08:32 <tomgibara> zhobbs: I'm resisting any approach like that because I don't think the updating library should tie developers to any market - directly or indirectly.
Nov 02 06:09:03 <romainguy_> tomgibara: well you give yourself pretty big constraints :)
Nov 02 06:09:16 <romainguy_> make that an option :)
Nov 02 06:09:47 <tomgibara> hmm... useful feedback, needs more thought.
Nov 02 06:10:01 <romainguy_> but again, yes we need better support for all this
Nov 02 06:10:13 <romainguy_> likewise, it'd be great if installing an app from market could pull another apk
Nov 02 06:10:17 <romainguy_> (like Radar)
Nov 02 06:11:05 <tomgibara> Yes, but a total muddle ensues when version dependencies arise - or the user decides to remove one app that another depends upon.
Nov 02 06:11:15 <RyeBrye> Is radar open source? I want to make one that is pink with little hearts and call it "Gaydar"
Nov 02 06:11:18 <romainguy_> I never said it'd be easy
Nov 02 06:11:24 <romainguy_> I said it's something we are thinking about
Nov 02 06:11:26 <tomgibara> This is an extremely delicate problem - I'm happy you're taking your time :)
Nov 02 06:11:32 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: it is open source
Nov 02 06:11:35 <RyeBrye> Cool
Nov 02 06:11:42 <RyeBrye> romainguy - did you write it?
Nov 02 06:11:43 <romainguy_> code.google.com/p/apps-for-android
Nov 02 06:11:45 <romainguy_> nope
Nov 02 06:11:52 <spikebike>  I wish the store mentioned in a very easy/obvious way which entries were open source
Nov 02 06:12:12 <RyeBrye> Does it tell you how big they are?
Nov 02 06:12:24 <RyeBrye> I already filled my phone once and had to delete stuff
Nov 02 06:12:29 <tomgibara> Hence the paralysis: It's extremely tricky atm to judge the best approach to anything like this.
Nov 02 06:12:31 <romainguy_> spikebike: well the thing is the normal cell phone user doesn't care :)
Nov 02 06:12:36 <RyeBrye> (btw: calculating sizes - can't that be done lazily? holy crap that takes forever)
Nov 02 06:12:50 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: yeah, we have a fix for the next version of the OS
Nov 02 06:13:01 <RyeBrye> Sweet. I'll compile and install it now!
Nov 02 06:13:03 <RyeBrye> oh... wait... ;)
Nov 02 06:13:08 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: and yes, Market tells you the size of each app
Nov 02 06:13:15 <RyeBrye> ok, I just haven't been looking
Nov 02 06:13:19 <zhobbs> spikebike: yeah, I like when they mention it's open source and give a url in the description
Nov 02 06:13:20 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: the fix is not in the public tree
Nov 02 06:13:58 <RyeBrye> It's in the Setec Astronomy tree?
Nov 02 06:14:05 <romainguy_> er what?
Nov 02 06:14:16 <Chicago> Hello
Nov 02 06:14:27 <RyeBrye> sneakers reference.... nm
Nov 02 06:14:46 <BruteSource> i should just buy a vogue, that way i can have android and root
Nov 02 06:15:10 <RyeBrye> I should just use one of the friend finder apps to find a google engineer
Nov 02 06:15:15 <RyeBrye> so I can bludgeon him and get android and root
Nov 02 06:15:16 <romainguy_> hey it's almost been a day without hearing a reference to being root :)
Nov 02 06:15:26 <RyeBrye> it's a weekend :)
Nov 02 06:15:31 <romainguy_> true :)
Nov 02 06:15:45 <muthu> root root ;)
Nov 02 06:16:34 <BruteSource> because linux is almost useless without root, whats the use of having this great os with a linux subsystem and no root
Nov 02 06:16:50 <romainguy_> Linux? useless without root?
Nov 02 06:16:54 <spikebike> heh
Nov 02 06:16:59 <BruteSource> almost
Nov 02 06:17:09 <BruteSource> is what i said, if you can read
Nov 02 06:17:17 <romainguy_> even almost
Nov 02 06:17:18 <spikebike> dunno it works for me, there's only a few things I can think of that nneed root
Nov 02 06:17:33 <tomgibara> I think I've said this before, but I'm glad there's no root access - it makes my phone more secure.
Nov 02 06:17:46 <BruteSource> well ya the average windows computer user will be fine with it
Nov 02 06:17:50 <romainguy_> tomgibara: I think they want to be root just for the sake of being root
Nov 02 06:17:56 <RyeBrye> Yes
Nov 02 06:17:57 <tomgibara> :)
Nov 02 06:18:06 <BruteSource> ya thats it
Nov 02 06:18:10 <RyeBrye> Well, that's part of it
Nov 02 06:18:24 <RyeBrye> I don't really care if I'm locked out of root - I just wnat to be able to flash my own images onto the phone
Nov 02 06:18:30 <DarkriftX> i dont want to be root
Nov 02 06:18:33 <spikebike> a 3G <-> wifi router/tether would be nice, although tmo's not going to like it
Nov 02 06:18:35 <DarkriftX> but i want root access to reflash
Nov 02 06:18:36 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 06:18:38 <spikebike> a VPN would be very nice as well
Nov 02 06:18:47 <romainguy_> you don't need to be root to reflash the device
Nov 02 06:19:06 <BruteSource> root has nothing to do with reflashing, thats the locked htc bootloader
Nov 02 06:19:08 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I don't want root - I want a way to flash unsigned images - I should be more specific
Nov 02 06:19:13 <DarkriftX> well, ok
Nov 02 06:19:22 <DarkriftX> with root we might not need to reflash an image
Nov 02 06:19:29 <BruteSource> no
Nov 02 06:19:36 <zhobbs> "adb flash my_android.img"
Nov 02 06:19:43 <RyeBrye> The HTC bootloader appears to be neutered, and the next step in the chain is the Android recovery mode - and it only like signed images
Nov 02 06:19:46 <BruteSource> the bootloader has nothing to do with linux
Nov 02 06:19:52 <jsherman> :( even user-created maps linking against the maps lib won't work on git base
Nov 02 06:19:53 <DarkriftX> zhobbs, they are signed and we cant get past that
Nov 02 06:20:21 <jsherman> that padlock leads me to believe it's intentional
Nov 02 06:20:41 <BruteSource> dream is not the first device to come with a locked bootloader
Nov 02 06:20:56 <RyeBrye> No, probably not
Nov 02 06:21:05 <DarkriftX> we are past that part already BruteSource
Nov 02 06:21:20 <BruteSource> just dont talk
Nov 02 06:21:30 <DarkriftX> why, am i a fake google employee too?
Nov 02 06:21:39 <DarkriftX> you gonna send me an email?
Nov 02 06:21:41 <BruteSource> lol get some new material
Nov 02 06:21:42 * DarkriftX hides
Nov 02 06:22:08 <BruteSource> gotta love the on guard google script kiddies always on duty here
Nov 02 06:22:10 <DarkriftX> lol, go find a bottle, you are much more informative when you are drunk and trolling
Nov 02 06:22:37 <BruteSource> haha, again no one cares for your lame repeated material
Nov 02 06:22:47 <RyeBrye> Someone got the HTC bootloader unlocked? I think the t-mobile update thing that people are working with is going to be a very long process since we don't have the private key and everything it wants is signed
Nov 02 06:22:53 <BHSPitLappy> here we go
Nov 02 06:22:57 <RyeBrye> err rather the android update recovery mode
Nov 02 06:23:28 <BruteSource> yes it has been done with the cdma diamond
Nov 02 06:23:54 <BruteSource> which had a locked bootloader, so im sure something similar can be done with the dream
Nov 02 06:24:29 <RyeBrye> well buy whoever did that a beer and a G1
Nov 02 06:25:00 <BruteSource> lol sure, soon as i can find someone to sell me the damn thing for 400 usd lol
Nov 02 06:26:05 <Chicago> Hi, on the source.android.com page it says we need Ubuntu to build Android. Since I have Gentoo instead, are there other Gentoo users here?
Nov 02 06:26:17 <romainguy_> jsherman:  even user-created maps linking against the maps lib won't work on git base << with a Maps API key?
Nov 02 06:26:22 <jsherman> yep
Nov 02 06:26:37 <jsherman> signed with a different key from the base system though
Nov 02 06:26:46 <jsherman> i made an apk with the 1.0 sdk
Nov 02 06:26:54 <jsherman> installing it in the 1.0 emulator -> everything ok
Nov 02 06:26:56 <BruteSource> source.adroid.com says you need ubuntu?
Nov 02 06:27:06 <BruteSource> android even
Nov 02 06:27:09 <romainguy_> jsherman: what do you mean "signed"?
Nov 02 06:27:14 <romainguy_> the Maps API key doesn't require signing
Nov 02 06:27:17 <jsherman> installing it in git emulator with maps framework copied from 1.0 system image -> doesn't work
Nov 02 06:27:20 <jsherman> well
Nov 02 06:27:22 <jsherman> the API key you use
Nov 02 06:27:30 <jsherman> has to be linked with the key that signed the apk
Nov 02 06:27:35 <Chicago> BruteSource: Yes it does, right in section 2.1 "Linux".
Nov 02 06:27:38 <romainguy_> ah yes I remember
Nov 02 06:27:40 <romainguy_> you're right
Nov 02 06:27:50 <romainguy_> then you should then emails to the Android Google Groups
Nov 02 06:27:51 <romainguy_> or file bugs
Nov 02 06:27:57 <romainguy_> we'll get that to the Maps guys
Nov 02 06:27:58 <jsherman> ya
Nov 02 06:28:03 <jsherman> i sent an email
Nov 02 06:28:05 <BruteSource> why the hell would they say you needed ubuntu?
Nov 02 06:28:06 <jsherman> i can file an issue for it too
Nov 02 06:28:33 <BruteSource> not like google to endorse one particular distro
Nov 02 06:29:07 <romainguy_> BruteSource: because that's probably the only distro we tested it against
Nov 02 06:29:13 <romainguy_> it's not endorsement
Nov 02 06:29:21 <romainguy_> it's what we know works
Nov 02 06:29:41 <BruteSource> why would it be any different than any other distro?
Nov 02 06:29:41 <romainguy_> and apparently that was a good idea since we needed patches to make it build on Fedora for instance
Nov 02 06:29:57 <romainguy_> because it's Linux
Nov 02 06:30:03 <BruteSource> i had no trouble building it on gentoo
Nov 02 06:30:11 <romainguy_> good then
Nov 02 06:30:19 <romainguy_> file an issue saying the page shoul dbe updated
Nov 02 06:30:25 <jsherman> BruteSource, they can't really claim "this will build on any linux distro"
Nov 02 06:30:25 <romainguy_> but like I said, it would not build on Fedora
Nov 02 06:30:33 <jsherman> what should they say instead?
Nov 02 06:30:36 <BruteSource> i had to use an arm toolchain but i imagine any distro would be tthe same
Nov 02 06:30:52 <romainguy_> but there's an ARM toolchain included in the tree?
Nov 02 06:30:57 <Chicago> The main thing I am concerned with is whether or not there is a Python 2.4 requirement.  The same section says to make sure I have Python 2.4.... but I have already upgraded to Python 2.5 and removed the older version a few months ago.
Nov 02 06:31:20 <romainguy_> Chicago: it worked with Python 2.5 for me
Nov 02 06:31:25 <romainguy_> there were problems with 2.4
Nov 02 06:31:26 <BruteSource> what does ubuntu have that fc doesnt?
Nov 02 06:31:29 <romainguy_> but they've been fixed
Nov 02 06:31:40 <romainguy_> BruteSource: I don't know, look at the patches
Nov 02 06:32:04 <umdk1d3> eek is there a way to use Resources to get the value="" values for a <string-array> defined in xml?
Nov 02 06:32:10 <BruteSource> ubuntu is becoming some kind of crooked linux standard
Nov 02 06:32:18 <BruteSource> its sick
Nov 02 06:32:19 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: say again?
Nov 02 06:32:22 <Chicago> Section 2.1 also says I need 6GB free to complete the build.  The only other suite I have which needs that much space is openoffice.
Nov 02 06:32:39 <romainguy_> Chicago: it's not a small project :)
Nov 02 06:32:45 <umdk1d3> so i have <string-array>  <item value="4">name</item>
Nov 02 06:33:05 <umdk1d3> getResources().getStringArray() returns the text values fine, but im trying to figrue out how to get my hands on the value's list
Nov 02 06:33:24 <romainguy_> oh, the entries ids?
Nov 02 06:33:27 <BruteSource> so google uses ubuntu for development? or just this project?
Nov 02 06:33:40 <romainguy_> BruteSource: many in the team use OS X :)
Nov 02 06:33:59 <BruteSource> so why not reccomend that?
Nov 02 06:34:14 <BruteSource> ew i can't believe i just said that lol
Nov 02 06:34:22 <romainguy_> er what? we don't recommend Ubuntu
Nov 02 06:34:54 <elad> java
Nov 02 06:35:03 <BruteSource> for building the android source you do apparently
Nov 02 06:35:13 <elad> avaj
Nov 02 06:35:16 <romainguy_> we don't recommend Ubuntu over Mac OS X
Nov 02 06:35:33 <romainguy_> and we just say that you need Ubuntu because, again, that's the only distro we know works
Nov 02 06:35:41 <romainguy_> if you know other distros that work, file a bug
Nov 02 06:35:47 <romainguy_> submit a patch with the detailed explanations
Nov 02 06:35:50 <romainguy_> and we'll update the page
Nov 02 06:35:57 <gambler> Fedora 9 compiled first try
Nov 02 06:36:08 <romainguy_> because we accepted patches to make that work :)
Nov 02 06:36:17 <Cedric_> So if other distros work, it's a bug? :)
Nov 02 06:36:17 <muthu> f9 - no issues
Nov 02 06:36:26 <BruteSource> why did you not build on osx yourselfs? ubuntu was easier?
Nov 02 06:36:27 <romainguy_> Cedric_: yes :)
Nov 02 06:36:29 <Chicago> emerge bison -pv
Nov 02 06:36:31 <Damm> man repo... is annoying
Nov 02 06:36:41 <Damm> kept failing on wlan/ti sync
Nov 02 06:36:46 <Cedric_> BruteSource: we build on Linux and Mac all the time but we had to focus on one distribution for 1.0
Nov 02 06:36:51 <Chicago> oops sorry about that, lol
Nov 02 06:37:23 <umdk1d3> its just odd that android:entryValues somehow is able to read those value's from <item>s
Nov 02 06:37:25 <BruteSource> im just saying, it doesnt say osx or ubuntu, just says ubuntu
Nov 02 06:37:49 <romainguy_> BruteSource: there's an entire section for Mac OS
Nov 02 06:37:52 <romainguy_> http://source.android.com/download
Nov 02 06:37:56 <DarkriftX> To build the Android source under Linux, you will need Ubuntu. The Android build is routinely tested on recent versions of Ubuntu (6.06 and later), but reports of successes or failures on other distributions are welcome.
Nov 02 06:38:02 <BruteSource> anyways i guess one linux distro is better than saying use only osx
Nov 02 06:38:40 <romainguy_> "To build the Android source files, you will need to use Linux or Mac OS. Building under Windows is not currently supported."
Nov 02 06:38:40 <DarkriftX> To build the Android files in a Mac OS environment, you need an Intel/x86 machine. The Android build system and tools do not support the obsolete PowerPC architecture.
Nov 02 06:38:44 <romainguy_> straight from the web site
Nov 02 06:38:49 <umdk1d3> that phrase "will need" is kinda strong though, talking about ubuntu
Nov 02 06:38:59 <romainguy_> argh
Nov 02 06:39:00 <romainguy_> file bugs
Nov 02 06:39:02 <romainguy_> submit changes
Nov 02 06:39:07 <BruteSource> lol ya they do not get hat
Nov 02 06:39:11 <BruteSource> but oh well
Nov 02 06:39:18 <BruteSource> its not a bug
Nov 02 06:39:20 <romainguy_> complaining about the words we used here won't help
Nov 02 06:39:28 <DarkriftX> yeah, i noticed that too umdk1d3
Nov 02 06:39:38 <DarkriftX> i think the wording could be better
Nov 02 06:39:39 <elad> hmm anyone seen the new hummer3 truck
Nov 02 06:39:43 <elad> interesting
Nov 02 06:39:46 <DarkriftX> but they do explain it in the next sentance
Nov 02 06:39:57 <romainguy_> file bugs
Nov 02 06:39:59 <DarkriftX> if its not h1, it sux
Nov 02 06:40:00 <romainguy_> submit changes
Nov 02 06:40:01 <romainguy_> :)
Nov 02 06:40:37 <tomgibara> Wow, android has turned into a real open source project quickly!
Nov 02 06:40:40 <BruteSource> again it is not a bug
Nov 02 06:40:59 <romainguy_> BruteSource: I'm telling you it is
Nov 02 06:41:19 <romainguy_> BruteSource: if you want the team to know about something, that's the best way to go atm
Nov 02 06:41:23 <BruteSource> well you are wrong, im sure it is some kind of marketing agenda
Nov 02 06:41:30 <romainguy_> ahahah
Nov 02 06:41:31 <romainguy_> sure
Nov 02 06:41:32 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 06:41:38 <BruteSource> anyways, i dont care
Nov 02 06:41:45 <DarkriftX> next week we see the headline "google buys ubuntu"
Nov 02 06:42:01 <romainguy_> tomgibara: apparently :)
Nov 02 06:42:01 <Cedric_> Ubuntu pays us to promote their distribution
Nov 02 06:42:07 <Cedric_> Google developers need to eat!
Nov 02 06:42:29 <romainguy_> wait we have a Windows SDK
Nov 02 06:42:31 <Cedric_> Ubuntu even remodeled my house for free
Nov 02 06:42:37 <RyeBrye> Google developers don't need to eat
Nov 02 06:42:37 <romainguy_> there must be a scheme there too
Nov 02 06:42:46 <RyeBrye> they get spoon fed caviar as they code
Nov 02 06:42:48 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 02 06:42:48 <languish> <BruteSource> anyways, i dont care <- new tactic from the nightly "I'm sorry, you were right..."
Nov 02 06:42:49 <languish> ?
Nov 02 06:42:50 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: well Cedric and I work from home regularly
Nov 02 06:42:55 <gambler> Cedric Stevens?
Nov 02 06:43:03 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: so we need to eat :)
Nov 02 06:43:05 <RyeBrye> Oh, you can work from home at google?
Nov 02 06:43:07 <Cedric_> Beust. Cedric Beust.
Nov 02 06:43:16 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: no :)
Nov 02 06:43:23 <gambler> thanks for the clarification.
Nov 02 06:43:23 <Cedric_> (tried my best 007 voice here)
Nov 02 06:43:26 <RyeBrye> ok
Nov 02 06:43:29 <Korzun> We need a windshield mount for android for GPS
Nov 02 06:43:30 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 06:43:35 <Korzun> ;)
Nov 02 06:43:38 * RyeBrye works from home at his current job, and only goes in for meetings
Nov 02 06:43:41 <DarkriftX> i thought about htat last night Korzun
Nov 02 06:43:45 <DarkriftX> it will be here soon
Nov 02 06:43:46 <Korzun> heh
Nov 02 06:43:52 <Korzun> For under $10
Nov 02 06:43:58 <DarkriftX> i work to get away from home :S
Nov 02 06:44:06 <Chicago> Does android require wxGTK2.6 as listed on the source homepage in the linux section? I have version wxGTK 2.8.8.1 instead.
Nov 02 06:44:11 <DarkriftX> married with 3 kids can do that to you
Nov 02 06:44:57 <ErikT> The two french guys work from home. Interesting. ;-)
Nov 02 06:45:22 <Cedric_> I actually could work from home a lot more than I do, I just love being on the campus
Nov 02 06:45:42 <romainguy_> same thing
Nov 02 06:46:01 <romainguy_> it's also a lot easier to be on the campus considering how many persons I need to interact with
Nov 02 06:46:37 <muthu> working from home is nearly impossible if you have a family
Nov 02 06:47:07 <romainguy_> depends on where they are during the day I guess?
Nov 02 06:47:13 <RyeBrye> I was going to interview with google at one time right after I got out of school, but a local startup (that later failed) was so much faster with the interview process and made me an offer I couldn't refuse
Nov 02 06:47:14 <muthu> Cedric_: lol, you the next bond, huh?
Nov 02 06:47:33 <RyeBrye> literally... they had guns to my head... it was kind of scary
Nov 02 06:47:37 <muthu> thu. Mu. thu.
Nov 02 06:47:43 <gambler> I hope they didnt put a horse's head in your bed RyeBrye
Nov 02 06:47:43 <muthu> that's my bond ;)
Nov 02 06:47:45 <gambler> ah ofc
Nov 02 06:47:56 <Cedric_> RyeBrye: yeah we lose people to startups that can interview faster
Nov 02 06:48:19 <muthu> goog interview process is krazy
Nov 02 06:48:24 <muthu> 10 layers?
Nov 02 06:48:25 <RyeBrye> I hear it takes 3 months or something
Nov 02 06:48:31 <jsherman>  ?
Nov 02 06:48:33 <jsherman> def not
Nov 02 06:48:34 <muthu> who the hell goes thru that?
Nov 02 06:48:37 <jsherman> oh maybe for fulltime
Nov 02 06:48:38 <romainguy_> definitely not
Nov 02 06:48:40 <jsherman> def not for interns
Nov 02 06:48:44 <Cedric_> Not 10 layers
Nov 02 06:48:56 <Cedric_> Usually a phone screen, then a day of interviews with 5-6 eng
Nov 02 06:49:04 <Cedric_> but it does take  a while
Nov 02 06:49:12 <romainguy_> and when you're an intern you get through 2 interviews to be converted to full time
Nov 02 06:49:28 <romainguy_> (+ assessment from your manager/team)
Nov 02 06:49:32 <muthu> any org should be agile enough to quickly hire imo
Nov 02 06:49:49 <muthu> & quickly fire.. hehe
Nov 02 06:50:20 <RyeBrye> I did an HR phone screen, and then the HR lady called me back to set up the phone screen with someone and asked me to rate myself on a ton of categories - but prefacing it by telling me something like "If you say you are too high, they will think you are an ass. If you say too low, it's ok."
Nov 02 06:51:14 <muthu> that sux
Nov 02 06:51:42 <spikebike> heh
Nov 02 06:51:43 <RyeBrye> yeah, I was like... "umm... put me down at 1 for everything then? that's a rather foolish way of setting up a self-evaluation system"
Nov 02 06:52:03 <spikebike> well I've seen apps that have 60-70 categories
Nov 02 06:52:11 <RyeBrye> onthe market?
Nov 02 06:52:14 <RyeBrye> Oh - job apps
Nov 02 06:52:23 <spikebike> and the top rating it notable expert and have had people put the top rating for every category
Nov 02 06:52:32 <RyeBrye> That's awesome
Nov 02 06:52:39 <RyeBrye> Was the candidate Peter Norton?
Nov 02 06:52:50 <RyeBrye> or Dr. Dobbs himself?
Nov 02 06:52:59 <muthu> lol
Nov 02 06:53:01 <spikebike> oh sweet
Nov 02 06:53:09 <spikebike> just got 2 8GB cards for the g1
Nov 02 06:53:16 <spikebike> amusingly they come with an adapter for the next larger size
Nov 02 06:53:16 <RyeBrye> tape them together
Nov 02 06:53:21 <muthu> haha
Nov 02 06:53:25 <spikebike> and another adapter for the next larger size
Nov 02 06:53:32 <romainguy_> sandisk?
Nov 02 06:53:34 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it's like a russian doll
Nov 02 06:53:41 <spikebike> exxactly
Nov 02 06:53:50 <spikebike> adata, 8GB class 6
Nov 02 06:53:56 <spikebike> $30 USA
Nov 02 06:54:20 <ErikT> That's like 2 euros, right? ;-)
Nov 02 06:54:21 <Damm> what's the point of 8gb sdhc cards if you can't store applications on the memory card?
Nov 02 06:54:38 <Damm> err microsdhc
Nov 02 06:54:44 <romainguy_> Damm: to store music and pictures for instance
Nov 02 06:54:45 <muthu> hang on.. things would happen
Nov 02 06:54:51 <romainguy_> or just to store data that apps generate
Nov 02 06:54:54 <muthu> its only a matter of time before apps start running from sdcard
Nov 02 06:55:05 <Damm> romainguy_, music = ipod.
Nov 02 06:55:10 <romainguy_> for you
Nov 02 06:55:12 <spikebike> damn that might change
Nov 02 06:55:13 <Damm> not even BT stereo
Nov 02 06:55:15 <BHSPitLappy> muthu, applications just have to learn how to do that, right
Nov 02 06:55:20 <spikebike> and yeah, music, pictures, even video
Nov 02 06:55:20 <romainguy_> Damm: so?
Nov 02 06:55:21 <Damm> now you give me flac support
Nov 02 06:55:25 <muthu> BHSPitLappy: true
Nov 02 06:55:26 <Damm> and I'll be interested
Nov 02 06:55:28 <spikebike> there's stereo headphones included
Nov 02 06:55:29 <BHSPitLappy> apps are smart, they'll figure it out
Nov 02 06:55:31 <geist> yeah, totally
Nov 02 06:55:38 <geist> i was pretty unhappy that there's no flac or alac
Nov 02 06:55:46 <geist> half my music is that
Nov 02 06:55:48 <spikebike> there's ogg support, mp3, good enough for me, not like flac -> ogg is rocket science
Nov 02 06:55:53 <jsherman> where is the coding convention document
Nov 02 06:55:54 <RyeBrye> I need aflac
Nov 02 06:55:56 <spikebike> geist transcoding is easy
Nov 02 06:56:08 <BHSPitLappy> transcoding shouldn't be necessary
Nov 02 06:56:12 <geist> so is writing a decoder for flac
Nov 02 06:56:13 <muthu> yummm... fish fry in the air :))
Nov 02 06:56:14 <BHSPitLappy> and it's an open platform
Nov 02 06:56:16 <spikebike> keep the master on a big disk with flac, then fill up your phone with a script
Nov 02 06:56:17 <romainguy_> jsherman: it might be somewhere in the tree, otherwise, just look at existing files
Nov 02 06:56:26 <romainguy_> jsherman: are you looking to write Java code?
Nov 02 06:56:36 <jsherman> i want to submit a one line patch to fix a null pointer exception
Nov 02 06:56:38 <jsherman> i want to know the max line length
Nov 02 06:56:42 <romainguy_> 100
Nov 02 06:56:43 <geist> yean i know, it's just annoying enough that i dont bother
Nov 02 06:56:44 <jsherman> some lines go over 80
Nov 02 06:56:46 <spikebike> I've heard for whatever reason the ogg decoder is especially efficient on the g1
Nov 02 06:56:46 <jsherman> ok
Nov 02 06:56:50 <jsherman> thanks
Nov 02 06:57:06 <geist> probably just never been tuned for arm at all
Nov 02 06:57:08 <romainguy_> jsherman: ViewGroup.java and TableLayout.java are good example of the Java coding style
Nov 02 06:57:13 <RyeBrye> where are the code guidelines? do all google projects have the same ones? (i.e. alphabetical function names... etc.?)
Nov 02 06:57:17 <geist> it's pretty easy for plain old x86 code to turn out to be terrible on arm
Nov 02 06:57:30 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: Android's convention are a bit different from Google's
Nov 02 06:57:41 <RyeBrye> Are your function names required to be alphabetical?
Nov 02 06:57:51 <romainguy_> what do you mean?
Nov 02 06:58:02 <romainguy_> I certainly hope you use letters to name your methods :)
Nov 02 06:58:28 <RyeBrye> GWT requires that all method and function names are organized in the file in alphabetical order
Nov 02 06:58:36 <romainguy_> ouch
Nov 02 06:58:37 <shackan> ascii letters ? ;)
Nov 02 06:58:38 <RyeBrye> IIRC
Nov 02 06:58:39 <romainguy_> no, we don't do that
Nov 02 06:58:44 <romainguy_> that's what IDEs are good at :)
Nov 02 06:58:45 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it seemed a little third-reich
Nov 02 06:58:48 <romainguy_> sort the methods for you
Nov 02 06:58:52 <jsherman> is there a way to submit a patch without actually making a local git commit
Nov 02 06:58:57 <romainguy_> jsherman: no
Nov 02 06:59:14 <jsherman> will there be problems when I sync then
Nov 02 06:59:14 <ErikT> Is there any easy to initiate an action (like clicking on a button) when a user hits enter in a TextView, etc? Can't seem to find much about it.
Nov 02 06:59:21 <romainguy_> jsherman: I doubt it
Nov 02 06:59:24 <jsherman> im not familiar with git, i'm used to perforce
Nov 02 06:59:30 <romainguy_> ErikT: setOnClickListener()
Nov 02 06:59:39 <romainguy_> jsherman: yeah, so are we :)
Nov 02 06:59:43 <romainguy_> Android uses perforce internally
Nov 02 06:59:48 <jsherman> yeah so I've heard
Nov 02 06:59:55 <ErikT> Romain, That's works for "enter" in a field?
Nov 02 06:59:57 <shackan> why?
Nov 02 07:00:01 <romainguy_> we're wrapping up stuff before switching everything to git
Nov 02 07:00:04 <romainguy_> ErikT: yes
Nov 02 07:00:08 <romainguy_> shackan: why perforce?
Nov 02 07:00:08 <ErikT> Cool...
Nov 02 07:00:10 <ErikT> Thanks.
Nov 02 07:00:18 <shackan> romainguy_: yes
Nov 02 07:00:26 <RyeBrye> romainguy: here's their code style http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/makinggwtbetter.html#codestyle
Nov 02 07:00:35 <romainguy_> shackan: because perforce is good, has good IDE support and is widely used within Google :)
Nov 02 07:01:04 <romainguy_> note that many files in our tree do not follow the proper style guide
Nov 02 07:01:21 <romainguy_> they were written in the beginning of the project, when things were more... liberal
Nov 02 07:01:35 <shackan> romainguy_: how does it compare to git?
Nov 02 07:01:37 <romainguy_> we update them slowly as we maintain them
Nov 02 07:01:54 <romainguy_> shackan: it's quite different, and I don't have enough experience with git to compare them properly
Nov 02 07:02:09 <shackan> np :)
Nov 02 07:02:14 <romainguy_> but git seems to do everything we need, so I'd say it's at least as good :)
Nov 02 07:02:15 <jsherman> so i mean if i make a commit locally
Nov 02 07:02:28 <jsherman> uh
Nov 02 07:02:35 <geist> git is quite amazing once you figure it out
Nov 02 07:02:44 <geist> the learning curve is a little steeper
Nov 02 07:02:47 <jsherman> won't things get messed up since my history will be out of sync with the central repo
Nov 02 07:02:52 <spikebike> thank god er, whoever dumped linux
Nov 02 07:02:58 <spikebike> bitkeeper
Nov 02 07:03:00 <romainguy_> jsherman: you could always rollback your local change
Nov 02 07:03:02 <geist> jsherman: nope, actually that's what it's great at
Nov 02 07:03:04 <muthu> figuring out git is the hard part
Nov 02 07:03:12 <romainguy_> but I doubt you'll have trouble
Nov 02 07:03:13 <geist> or you can roll forward your change real easily
Nov 02 07:03:18 <jsherman> hm ok
Nov 02 07:03:20 <geist> you just gotta know how to do it
Nov 02 07:03:21 <shackan> jsherman: git is usually good at sorting that out
Nov 02 07:03:35 <umdk1d3> is there a programatic way of getting "/sdcard", maybe from Context, in case its different in the future?
Nov 02 07:03:41 <muthu> but then goog has this repo thing..
Nov 02 07:03:51 <romainguy_> repo is just a git wrapper
Nov 02 07:03:58 <muthu> right
Nov 02 07:04:00 <ErikT> Romain, works like a charm. Very nice.
Nov 02 07:04:04 <shackan> geist: that would be a rebase?
Nov 02 07:04:04 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: there's an external storage API somewhere
Nov 02 07:04:28 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/os/Environment.html
Nov 02 07:04:32 <muthu> was trying to use 'repo sync' in my own git repo ;)
Nov 02 07:04:45 <geist> shackan: right
Nov 02 07:04:51 <umdk1d3> romainguy_: awesome  =D
Nov 02 07:05:05 <geist> you can just keep playing your change on top of the new head
Nov 02 07:05:17 <muthu> umdk1d3: accessing sdcard is pretty straightforward
Nov 02 07:05:17 <geist> so that it always looks like you had just hacked it right there
Nov 02 07:05:24 <romainguy_> geist: what does rebase do exactly? I keep hearing about it :)
Nov 02 07:05:37 <muthu> was thinking about storing all my app data in sdcard.. but didn't do it
Nov 02 07:05:39 <geist> well, you can do a lot with it actually
Nov 02 07:05:56 <tomgibara> The thing that threw me about repo, was that the documentation claims it automatically does a rebase after a sync, but I didn't see any evidence of it.
Nov 02 07:05:59 <geist> but the usual use case is to take your changes you've made and reapply them on top of a new head
Nov 02 07:06:11 <geist> so you made a branch at revsion A of the mainline
Nov 02 07:06:21 <geist> make two patches on your branch, A1, A2
Nov 02 07:06:28 <geist> then mainline goes to C
Nov 02 07:06:29 <umdk1d3> muthu: what happens if the motoroloa phone uses "/media/flash" or something weird for its external storage?  ;)  using this approach allows you to be ready for that
Nov 02 07:06:33 <romainguy_> geist: ok I see
Nov 02 07:06:37 <romainguy_> geist: that sounds cool
Nov 02 07:06:55 <geist> if you rebase your change on C, it'll essentially switch to C and then play back your changes one at a time, letting you resolve changs
Nov 02 07:07:03 <geist> end result is now you have a C1 and C2
Nov 02 07:07:30 <geist> there are tons of other things you can do while rebasing, like rearranging theorder you apply them in, merge some of them together, split some apart
Nov 02 07:07:50 <geist> so it's common to also flatten all your changes on some topic branch into 1, then just drop them into mainline
Nov 02 07:08:03 <romainguy_> that's cool
Nov 02 07:08:13 <romainguy_> what really excites me about switching to git is branches support
Nov 02 07:08:24 <geist> and since essentially nothing in git is destructive, it just creates new commits when it rebases
Nov 02 07:08:27 <romainguy_> and the fact that git seems really smart about figuring out what you changed in the tree
Nov 02 07:08:30 <romainguy_> (like moving files)
Nov 02 07:08:31 <geist> since the new changes will have a different hash
Nov 02 07:08:37 <romainguy_> perforce sucks at moving files
Nov 02 07:08:43 <geist> you never actually lose anything, you just create new changes
Nov 02 07:08:50 <muthu> i don't see any git branches for android other than master
Nov 02 07:08:57 <geist> so if it goes terribly wrong, you just switch back to your old branch
Nov 02 07:09:02 <muthu> how does android maintain releases?
Nov 02 07:09:07 <romainguy_> we branch
Nov 02 07:09:11 <romainguy_> but we're not using git internally
Nov 02 07:09:13 <romainguy_> not yet
Nov 02 07:09:17 <muthu> ok
Nov 02 07:09:45 <geist> that's what rad about it. git actually has no concept of branches
Nov 02 07:09:55 <geist> it just tracks a given history back through each commit's parent
Nov 02 07:10:08 <geist> when you create a branch, it's really just a convention to call it that
Nov 02 07:10:17 <romainguy_> yep, it's basically free
Nov 02 07:10:18 <geist> you're really just making changes on some point in the commit chain
Nov 02 07:10:24 <romainguy_> which is what I like :)
Nov 02 07:10:26 <geist> and it's only a branch if you want to think of it as such
Nov 02 07:10:39 <muthu> geist: so its one long trunk?
Nov 02 07:10:42 <geist> and usually one 'branch' is considered mainline purely by convention
Nov 02 07:10:48 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 07:11:16 <geist> muthu: sort of, yeah. since each commit is globally unique, and comtains a reference to it's globaly unique parent
Nov 02 07:11:27 <geist> given any commit hash, you can trace it's history back to the beginning of time
Nov 02 07:11:29 <romainguy_> geist: thinking in terms of branches is helpful for releases maintenance I find
Nov 02 07:11:46 <geist> also means given any two commits you can find their common ancestor by just tracking their parent until they collide
Nov 02 07:11:48 <romainguy_> but again, I'm a total newbie when it comes to git :)
Nov 02 07:11:56 <geist> or if one is a parent of another, etc
Nov 02 07:12:13 <geist> so the structure of the branches is implicit given any commit hash
Nov 02 07:12:50 <geist> the globally uniqueness of the commits is rad too. for linux stuff it's really handy to cherry pick a change from the future
Nov 02 07:13:05 <romainguy_> yes, I'm sure it's gonna be very handy for Android
Nov 02 07:13:10 <geist> linus checkks in somethign in trunk, you can just sync with their repo and cherry pick the change to your tree
Nov 02 07:13:15 <muthu> i like the fact you can just do your thing locally
Nov 02 07:13:18 <geist> right
Nov 02 07:13:31 <geist> a server to git is just a local repository in some shared spot
Nov 02 07:13:34 <geist> nothing different about it
Nov 02 07:13:42 <muthu> nice
Nov 02 07:13:50 <geist> so at work, for example, I point my home machine at my work machine and vice versa
Nov 02 07:13:58 <geist> one is a remote of another
Nov 02 07:14:11 <geist> so i can make a change, commit it, go home and pull it down and keep playing
Nov 02 07:14:26 <muthu> ha
Nov 02 07:14:28 <muthu> cool
Nov 02 07:14:35 <geist> and since you can commit whatever you want, it doesn't really exist until you push it somewhere global
Nov 02 07:14:48 <geist> you can make all sorts of temporary commits, as long as you clean them up later, which is super easy to do
Nov 02 07:14:59 <geist> flattening them, undoing them, deleting them from history, etc
Nov 02 07:15:07 <romainguy_> what's flattening?
Nov 02 07:15:26 <geist> like going back in history and merging a a bunch of commits into each other
Nov 02 07:15:33 <romainguy_> ok that's what I thought
Nov 02 07:15:47 <geist> you can rearrange them, flatten them, or split them pretty easily
Nov 02 07:15:55 <geist> or just drop em
Nov 02 07:16:22 <EpicUser> ;
Nov 02 07:16:22 <geist> once you get really handy at that, svn and p4 and whatnot gets relaly annoying, since it forces you down this linear time thing
Nov 02 07:16:28 <geist> that starst feeling really restrictive
Nov 02 07:16:48 <romainguy_> oh they can be annoying even without using git :)
Nov 02 07:16:54 <geist> that too
Nov 02 07:17:01 <muthu> geist: when you switch branch, the local unversioned files are not deleted, right?
Nov 02 07:17:23 <geist> if you check out another local branch?
Nov 02 07:17:26 <geist> yeah, they're left there
Nov 02 07:17:30 <muthu> ok
Nov 02 07:17:39 <geist> though if you have work pending you can also just commit it s 'foobar' or something
Nov 02 07:17:51 <muthu> right
Nov 02 07:17:53 <geist> and there's a 'git stash' that just makes a hidden commit to store pending work
Nov 02 07:17:55 <romainguy_> geist: the most annoying thing with perforce is how heavy branching can be, it makes working on several changelists for the same files at the same time really annoying
Nov 02 07:18:04 <geist> one trick you can do with git is commit something as foobar or whatever you want
Nov 02 07:18:07 <spikebike> I wonder what percentage of g1's have gotten an OTA update
Nov 02 07:18:12 <geist> then later on you can do a
Nov 02 07:18:17 <geist> git reset --soft HEAD^
Nov 02 07:18:27 <geist> which reverts the commit as if it never happened, but leaves the files alone
Nov 02 07:18:33 <geist> so now you're left with a bunch of unversioned stuff
Nov 02 07:19:13 <geist> romainguy_: yeah, though it does a half decent job at tracking what has and hasn't been merged
Nov 02 07:19:17 <geist> svn is kind of a nightmare with that
Nov 02 07:19:25 <romainguy_> yes
Nov 02 07:19:30 <geist> last company i worked for had 30 or 40GB of data per 'branch'
Nov 02 07:19:34 <muthu> am porting all svn stuff to git :)
Nov 02 07:19:47 <geist> so with p4 everytime you needed a new branch it'd take an hour or so to just check it out before you could start
Nov 02 07:19:48 <romainguy_> although moving things between branches in perforce can be quite confusing at times :)
Nov 02 07:20:01 <geist> since you can't do anything server side like you can on svn
Nov 02 07:20:03 <muthu> geist: isn't git takes a lot more storage?
Nov 02 07:20:09 <geist> no no, that's the best part about git
Nov 02 07:20:12 <geist> it's extremely compact
Nov 02 07:20:24 <geist> in the .git dir on your checkout you essentially have the entire repository
Nov 02 07:20:34 <geist> but it's packed super tight
Nov 02 07:20:42 <muthu> nice
Nov 02 07:20:42 <geist> the entire history of linux, for example, is about 250-300MB
Nov 02 07:21:06 <spikebike> wow, that is impressive
Nov 02 07:21:08 <geist> basically git is a big content addressible file system, keyed by the SHA-1 hash of the object
Nov 02 07:21:16 <geist> with a patch management thing built on top of it
Nov 02 07:21:19 <spikebike> today's kernel is impressively big
Nov 02 07:21:20 <muthu> but storing all contents instead of delta, not an overhead?
Nov 02 07:21:27 <spikebike> (just a single snapshot)
Nov 02 07:21:46 <geist> so first and foremost it has a very compact way of storing each object as deltas from other objects
Nov 02 07:21:59 <geist> but from the upper levels of the code, it's just a pile of a million objects, or so
Nov 02 07:22:06 <jsherman> i have no idea what im doing w.r.t git
Nov 02 07:22:08 <jsherman> http://review.source.android.com/1851
Nov 02 07:22:14 <jsherman> hopefully that is done right
Nov 02 07:22:46 <geist> if you unpacked the git db for linux, it'd probably be many gigabytes, but given that most objects are probably just simple deltas from another, it tries to pack them
Nov 02 07:23:00 <geist> and does a darn good job at it
Nov 02 07:24:06 <geist> git at the high level doesn't actually store deltas between commits, it just stores a new snapshots
Nov 02 07:24:12 <muthu> when did git released?
Nov 02 07:24:14 <geist> if a file changed, it results in a new object
Nov 02 07:24:30 <geist> so deltas for diff purposes or merges or whatnot are actually calculated at run time
Nov 02 07:24:52 <geist> also renames are tracked that way too. git just does a search to see if a blob shows up in a new spot, and assumes that's a rename
Nov 02 07:25:00 <romainguy_> jsherman: I just reviewed your change, there's a little edit to make :)
Nov 02 07:25:09 <romainguy_> geist: and that is sweeet
Nov 02 07:25:18 <romainguy_> to handle moves/renames we use a p4 wrapper at google
Nov 02 07:25:23 * romainguy_ slaps the stupid integrates
Nov 02 07:25:26 <jsherman> haha
Nov 02 07:25:26 <jsherman> oops
Nov 02 07:25:27 <geist> it has some little heuristic to determine that a file showed up in a new spot
Nov 02 07:26:29 <geist> anywya, we're pushing to move stuff to git at work too
Nov 02 07:26:42 <geist> but there's a big mental hurdle to get people off
Nov 02 07:26:44 <geist> over
Nov 02 07:26:53 <muthu> geist: is git new?
Nov 02 07:26:57 <geist> and there's always some idiot that wants to use windows...
Nov 02 07:27:01 <muthu> been hearing about git only now..
Nov 02 07:27:07 <geist> muthu: couple years i think
Nov 02 07:27:14 <muthu> ok
Nov 02 07:27:15 <tomgibara> Git is how source control systems should have worked for decades
Nov 02 07:27:34 <geist> supposedly some of the other distributed source control systems have similar features as well
Nov 02 07:27:43 <geist> but git is the first one i used
Nov 02 07:27:44 <Cedric_> It also has a command line syntax that feels decades old
Nov 02 07:28:05 <geist> yeah, that's a complaint, a lot of thecommands are seriously overloaded
Nov 02 07:28:09 <geist> git checkout, git reset, git diff
Nov 02 07:28:17 <geist> lots of not quite the same thing you can do with them
Nov 02 07:28:35 <jsherman> er is it supposed to make another reviedw
Nov 02 07:28:40 <jsherman> instead of just updating the existing one?
Nov 02 07:29:00 <romainguy_> geist: Mercurial looks very similar indeed
Nov 02 07:29:15 <muthu> the ide's seem to be lagging in git support
Nov 02 07:29:50 <jsherman> romainguy_, is it supposed to make another review page, or update the existing one?
Nov 02 07:30:07 <romainguy_> no idea
Nov 02 07:30:09 <romainguy_> I don't see any update
Nov 02 07:30:12 <tomgibara> muthu: things move slowly...
Nov 02 07:30:14 <jsherman> yeah it made another page
Nov 02 07:30:18 <gambler> muthu, there is QGit, thats pretty handy
Nov 02 07:30:25 <romainguy_> I can't see your new change
Nov 02 07:30:32 <geist> yeah, doesn't bug me  since i'm command line only
Nov 02 07:30:34 <romainguy_> there's an Eclipse plugin
Nov 02 07:30:34 <geist> but i can see the issue
Nov 02 07:30:42 <jsherman> oh maybe i am supposed to just cancel this one?
Nov 02 07:30:42 <romainguy_> also an IntelliJ plugin
Nov 02 07:31:03 <romainguy_> ok I see the new one
Nov 02 07:31:04 <jsherman> ok i guess ill just delete the old one
Nov 02 07:31:08 <romainguy_> ok
Nov 02 07:31:16 <romainguy_> it might be because I LGTM'd your first change
Nov 02 07:31:27 <romainguy_> ah there's another edit you should make
Nov 02 07:31:31 <jsherman> lol
Nov 02 07:31:34 <romainguy_> sorry I missed it
Nov 02 07:31:40 <romainguy_> continuation indents are 8 spaces
Nov 02 07:31:44 <romainguy_> the original file was wrong
Nov 02 07:31:51 <romainguy_> but while you're at it... :)
Nov 02 07:32:03 <romainguy_> so 4 more spaces before "mContext.getSystem..."
Nov 02 07:32:11 <romainguy_> try to see if this updates the change
Nov 02 07:32:14 <muthu> agree, ide's would come out with git support once its used more heavily
Nov 02 07:32:14 <romainguy_> I haven't reviewed it
Nov 02 07:32:34 <muthu> qgit, giggle, gitgui
Nov 02 07:32:36 <romainguy_> I'm gonna miss IntelliJ's support for p4 annotate
Nov 02 07:32:43 <jsherman> hmm i thought i saw something else indented 4
Nov 02 07:32:48 <jsherman> oh ya
Nov 02 07:32:49 <tomgibara> muthu: git is used heavily, only by people who don't use ide's
Nov 02 07:32:54 <jsherman> the existing code is indented 4
Nov 02 07:32:58 <romainguy_> jsherman: I know
Nov 02 07:33:02 <jsherman> ah
Nov 02 07:33:03 <jsherman> ok
Nov 02 07:33:08 <geist> gitk is all i use
Nov 02 07:33:10 <romainguy_> but you modified the line, so you should adapt it to the actual style :))
Nov 02 07:33:13 <muthu> tomgibara: yeah, we need ide users to get into the git bandwagon
Nov 02 07:33:36 <muthu> myself haven't seen the need for git, until android
Nov 02 07:33:54 * geist too actually, through swetland
Nov 02 07:33:57 <tomgibara> tomgibara: It's a circular dependency.. many ide users only use what their ide provides
Nov 02 07:34:04 <romainguy_> as long as I'm not using CVS, I'm happy :)
Nov 02 07:34:34 <jsherman> no
Nov 02 07:34:37 <jsherman> it submitted another one
Nov 02 07:34:40 <romainguy_> jsherman: hmm ok
Nov 02 07:34:46 <jsherman> i am following the directions in the docs
Nov 02 07:34:47 <romainguy_> there must be a command to update the change then
Nov 02 07:34:59 <jsherman> it says to use git commit -a --amend
Nov 02 07:35:02 <jsherman> and then re-upload
Nov 02 07:35:22 <tomgibara> jsherman: My understanding is that there's currently no way to update a change submitted by repo
Nov 02 07:35:33 <jsherman> ah
Nov 02 07:35:33 <jsherman> ok
Nov 02 07:35:48 <tomgibara> That's only what I understood from the docs though.
Nov 02 07:36:34 <muthu> you can revert a commit.. but not recommended
Nov 02 07:38:00 <RyeBrye> does intellij have any decent android plugins yet?
Nov 02 07:38:24 <romainguy_> nope
Nov 02 07:38:38 <RyeBrye> darn. I hate eclipse.
Nov 02 07:38:47 <systm> anyone here know of a PDF reader?
Nov 02 07:38:53 <RyeBrye> Acrobat?
Nov 02 07:39:00 <systm> for android
Nov 02 07:39:04 <RyeBrye> oh.
Nov 02 07:39:14 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: if that can make you feel better, I use IntelliJ for both Android framework code and personal apps :)
Nov 02 07:39:14 <DarkriftX> systm, multireader?
Nov 02 07:39:18 <systm> aReader is on the Market, but it seems to suck.
Nov 02 07:39:30 <systm> DarkriftX, where do I get that, on market?
Nov 02 07:39:34 <DarkriftX> not sure
Nov 02 07:39:42 <RyeBrye> romainguy - that makes me feel better. now I will go sleep peacefully :)
Nov 02 07:39:44 <DarkriftX> i have a version on my site but id think its on market also
Nov 02 07:40:09 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: :))
Nov 02 07:40:17 <systm> DarkriftX, reg?
Nov 02 07:40:21 <muthu> the good thing is.. you don't actually need an android plugin to work with android
Nov 02 07:40:21 <DarkriftX> istration
Nov 02 07:40:42 <muthu> ant seems to be good enough for android
Nov 02 07:41:03 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: I generate an ant build with activitycreator, then I add the build.xml as an Ant build in IntelliJ
Nov 02 07:41:13 <RyeBrye> cool
Nov 02 07:41:15 <romainguy_> and I finally bind a shortcut (Ctrl-D) to the reinstall target from that build file
Nov 02 07:41:24 <romainguy_> so with one key press it builds and deploys the project on my phone
Nov 02 07:41:31 <Cedric_> romainguy_: you mean IDEA still doesn't doincremental compilation?   :\
Nov 02 07:41:33 <romainguy_> hardly need a plugin :))
Nov 02 07:41:42 <RyeBrye> I'll probably do that
Nov 02 07:41:45 <romainguy_> Cedric_: javac doesnt support it
Nov 02 07:42:02 <romainguy_> Cedric_: and that suprisingly annoyed me when I left Eclipse, but I really don't care anymore
Nov 02 07:42:03 <Cedric_> Oh yeah, blame Sun
Nov 02 07:42:46 <romainguy_> but yeah, it'd be nice to have
Nov 02 07:43:03 <RyeBrye> I prefer maven over ant for most of my projects where I have multiple modules involved - but I guess ant would be good enough for a single application
Nov 02 07:43:23 <gambler> my favourite eclipse feature is when characters im typing suddenly turn into other non-weird characters
Nov 02 07:43:30 <romainguy_> I find maven way overblown for Android apps
Nov 02 07:43:36 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it probably is
Nov 02 07:43:45 <romainguy_> I know jasta is using it
Nov 02 07:44:14 <RyeBrye> I do mostly web development and rather large projects - so I use it all the time
Nov 02 07:44:19 <romainguy_> that makes sense
Nov 02 07:44:47 <RyeBrye> but yeah, scaling back to doing just one thing with one artifact that needs to get built - it would be overkill
Nov 02 07:45:25 <RyeBrye> the only thing nice about it would be the automated running of unit tests and how it has you structure your code by convention in the source - but I could follow the same conventions with ant
Nov 02 07:46:31 <romainguy_> well activitycreator will give you a project structure
Nov 02 07:46:33 <romainguy_> the one we use everywhere
Nov 02 07:47:08 <RyeBrye> probably makes sense to follow that convention then :)
Nov 02 07:47:21 <romainguy_> well some directories
Nov 02 07:47:35 <romainguy_> are mandatory
Nov 02 07:47:39 <romainguy_> assets and res for instance
Nov 02 07:47:55 <romainguy_> you could have them someplace else but the names must be these names
Nov 02 07:48:52 <jasta> except that activitycreator's build system doesn't support automated testing.
Nov 02 07:49:05 <romainguy_> we could update it easily
Nov 02 07:49:06 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I do love that about maven
Nov 02 07:49:13 <jasta> of course you could add it yourself in a way that doesn't extend to other projects
Nov 02 07:49:22 <RyeBrye> the fact that you have to explictly tell it NOT to run tests is a great feature, imo
Nov 02 07:49:22 <jasta> where meanwhile, Maven supports this already, and in a tidy and centralized way
Nov 02 07:49:55 <romainguy_> it's funny you like Maven so much when I see so many complaints about it on the web :)
Nov 02 07:50:13 <jasta> so it surprises you that i have my own opinion?
Nov 02 07:50:20 <RyeBrye> lol
Nov 02 07:50:25 <romainguy_> that's exactly what I said, yes
Nov 02 07:50:31 <romainguy_> nice deduction jasta :)
Nov 02 07:50:47 <Cedric_> People start having problems with Maven when they need customized goals
Nov 02 07:51:08 <romainguy_> Cedric_: I seem to recall that Maven was an easy target for Hani :)
Nov 02 07:51:11 <jasta> i find the Ant approach to fall 1 layer short of being a proper build environment.  it's analogous to writing Makefiles by hand, with merely some niceties piled onto it
Nov 02 07:51:18 <Cedric_> romainguy_: Rightfully so
Nov 02 07:51:40 <tomgibara> I use maven for moseycode, and I've used it several times before - version 2 was a major improvement over the original
Nov 02 07:51:42 <Cedric_> jasta: I would place ant above makefile but lower level than maven
Nov 02 07:51:55 <Cedric_> Maven is a great idea with terrible implementation and design
Nov 02 07:52:31 <RyeBrye> maven 2.0.9 works pretty well
Nov 02 07:52:34 <jasta> the other thing i absolutely can't stand about lots of java build systems is that they encourage the developer to distribute the project dependencies.  dependency resolution is a problem for distribution, NOT for developers.
Nov 02 07:53:07 <tomgibara> Cedric_: I don't think I'd agree, I think maybe it was too ambitious in its scope to get everything done well
Nov 02 07:53:08 <RyeBrye> I agree... I worked on one OSS project that was a 50 meg download from subvesion - and 48 megs of that was dependencies
Nov 02 07:53:25 <RyeBrye> by worked on I mean I DLed the code, rewrote it in a maven build, and submitted it back to the guy
Nov 02 07:53:34 <RyeBrye> "here's the 2 meg version of your repository"
Nov 02 07:53:35 <romainguy_> well Android comes with pretty much all the dependencies you need to build it :)
Nov 02 07:53:57 <systm> DarkriftX, is MultiReader App yours?
Nov 02 07:54:00 <DarkriftX> nope
Nov 02 07:54:08 <systm> it doesnt open PDFS.
Nov 02 07:54:13 <tomgibara> For me, managing dependencies is one significant reason for using Maven in large projects
Nov 02 07:54:21 <DarkriftX> i just found screenshots for the last person who replied on that thread so i remembered it
Nov 02 07:54:36 <DarkriftX> oh, i thought it shows a pdf being viewed in the screenshot
Nov 02 07:54:43 <RyeBrye> One cool thing about maven is the extensible build platform it has. In my current project, we are doing flex and java stuff - we use a flex mojo to build and run unit tests on the flex stuff, and then take the compiled swf and put it into our webapp before it gets bundled up
Nov 02 07:54:45 <umdk1d3> how easy is it for maven to apply a simple patchset to any stuff from other repos?
Nov 02 07:54:48 <systm> it does but it fails
Nov 02 07:55:03 <DarkriftX> really
Nov 02 07:55:13 <DarkriftX> well, its new...
Nov 02 07:55:16 <DarkriftX> lemme look around for you
Nov 02 07:55:45 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: as far as I know, there's nothing built-in to do that
Nov 02 07:55:47 <RyeBrye> umdk1d3 - you mean patch your dependencies? It can't - but if you want to do that you have to rebuild your dependencies anyway - which it can do quite nicely
Nov 02 07:55:49 <jasta> umdk1d3: you'd either find or write a plugin.
Nov 02 07:55:54 <systm> DarkriftX, Yea I know, just to let you know the file is 13.8
Nov 02 07:55:57 <jasta> umdk1d3: a quick google reveals that such a plugin does exist.
Nov 02 07:55:58 <systm> MBs
Nov 02 07:56:06 <jasta> google search*
Nov 02 07:56:43 <Chicago> I get an error when trying to run 'make' after using repo. I have the same problem as Issue #985 here -> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=985  The problem is, the fix doesn't work for me.
Nov 02 07:57:12 <RyeBrye> Maven makes me happy. Now I must go sleep.
Nov 02 07:57:49 <RyeBrye> http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows_7_microsofts_linux_killer <-- maybe Android 1.2 should be built on top of Windows 7! ;)
Nov 02 07:58:09 <RyeBrye> (that title is so overly broad it's not even funny)
Nov 02 07:58:19 <jsherman> At the recent PDC, where Windows 7 was unveiled, Windows and Windows Live senior vice president Steve Sinofsky claimed that Windows 7 used less than half of the 1 GB of RAM on his Lenovo S10 netbook
Nov 02 07:58:34 <Cedric_> Funny I linked to that article in my latest post: http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000502.html
Nov 02 07:58:39 <Cedric_> Windows 7 is looking pretty good
Nov 02 07:58:40 <jsherman> he should be embarassed to call that impressive
Nov 02 07:58:57 <Cedric_> There are some cool UI innovations
Nov 02 07:59:01 <romainguy_> Cedric_: I like the UI changes
Nov 02 07:59:11 <Cedric_> The window management
Nov 02 07:59:11 <spikebike> innovations?
Nov 02 07:59:11 <romainguy_> Cedric_: even though I would have hoped they went even futher
Nov 02 07:59:14 <romainguy_> further
Nov 02 07:59:31 <jasta> yeah, what "innovations"? :)
Nov 02 07:59:37 <Cedric_> You maximize by dragging a window to the top
Nov 02 07:59:39 <spikebike> cedric the vertically maxmize on an edge, then return to normal size when you pull it away?
Nov 02 07:59:42 <Cedric_> minimize like that too when a window is maximized
Nov 02 07:59:49 <jasta> Cedric_: compiz does that now
Nov 02 07:59:53 <Cedric_> automatic half split when dragging a window to the left or right
Nov 02 07:59:59 <spikebike> jasta ya for some time now
Nov 02 08:00:10 <umdk1d3> jasta: tomgibara RyeBrye thanks @ maven patching question  :)
Nov 02 08:00:16 <Cedric_> spikebike: sounds right
Nov 02 08:00:31 <jasta> so, actually i have an android question ;)
Nov 02 08:00:33 <DarkriftX> wow systm there really isnt much out there
Nov 02 08:00:44 <Cedric_> I guess we'll see these features in MacOS in one year or so
Nov 02 08:00:45 <DarkriftX> i searched all my normal sources :(
Nov 02 08:01:19 <romainguy_> Cedric_: at least this time it's useful features (compared to the Alt-Tab in 3D :)
Nov 02 08:01:20 <jasta> how sophisticated are WifiLocks?  specifically, if i acquire one but no wi-fi network is connected, will the lock hold then if some time later wi-fi is connected?
Nov 02 08:01:39 <Cedric_> agreed, the 3d alt-tab is not very useful, but awesome for dekmos
Nov 02 08:01:47 <romainguy_> that's basically all it is
Nov 02 08:02:04 <romainguy_> I actually didn't find it practical considering the improvements they brought to the regular alt-tab
Nov 02 08:02:14 <Cedric_> If Vista had a decent shell and filesystem, I would dump my Mac in a heartbeat
Nov 02 08:02:31 <romainguy_> also, I doubt the new window management features will come to Mac OS X
Nov 02 08:02:38 <romainguy_> the way windows are used is just different
Nov 02 08:02:45 <jasta> when will Microsoft support multiple desktops, I wonder? :)
Nov 02 08:03:05 <Cedric_> Some of these innovationds would work well for both
Nov 02 08:03:08 <RyeBrye> That would take another 450 MB or ram
Nov 02 08:03:20 <Cedric_> Having a maxed out window and moving it should always be possible
Nov 02 08:03:38 <romainguy_> Cedric_: I'll speak from personal experience, but since I switched to Mac OS X, I basically stopped maximizing windows
Nov 02 08:03:41 <gambler> Cedric2, you could just use Cygwin on top of windows
Nov 02 08:03:53 <Cedric_> gambler: cygwin is not good enough
Nov 02 08:03:54 <jasonparekh_> jasta: yup, grab a wifi lock and it'll keep it awake (and looking for networks) until you release
Nov 02 08:04:00 <romainguy_> Cedric_: I very much like the "document as window" approach
Nov 02 08:04:20 <gambler> Cedric2, what exactly do you want?
Nov 02 08:04:21 <romainguy_> but I'd love to use these new features in my Windows XP :)
Nov 02 08:04:23 <Cedric_> romainguy_: agree I'm not a big maximizer myself, but I still don't like the document as window fascism
Nov 02 08:04:28 <jasonparekh_> romainguy_: you dont maximize cause you have a 30inch monitor :)
Nov 02 08:04:28 <Cedric_> sometimes it's what I want, other times not
Nov 02 08:04:32 <jasta> jasonparekh_: hmm, i might need to add some sophistication for my usage to actually see if the user is on 3G or not.
Nov 02 08:04:44 <romainguy_> Cedric_: that I can understand, it just works for me
Nov 02 08:05:01 <romainguy_> jasonparekh_: I started Mac OS X with a 12" Powerbook :)
Nov 02 08:05:07 <jasta> because if their connectivity is < 3G, i'd want to hold a wifilock just arbitrarily i think.
Nov 02 08:05:25 <Cedric_> Reading and writing text is not practical with maximized windows, but so many people do it... never ceases to surprise me
Nov 02 08:05:31 <romainguy_> Cedric_: have you tried the new .NET based shell? I really really like it, I just find every command way to complicated to type :)
Nov 02 08:05:46 <jasonparekh_> jasta: we tear down the data network whenever wifi is up, in most cases
Nov 02 08:05:50 <romainguy_> Cedric_: helps focus on the task at hand I guess
Nov 02 08:05:55 <Cedric_> romainguy_: PowerShell? I tried it a bit, very interesting concepts that blow the Unix shells out of the water
Nov 02 08:06:06 <jasonparekh_> jasta: the exception is for MMS
Nov 02 08:06:14 <romainguy_> Cedric_: totally agree
Nov 02 08:06:15 <Cedric_> great for writing shell scripts, still subpar for user interactivity
Nov 02 08:06:23 <romainguy_> Cedric_: yeah that's what I meant
Nov 02 08:06:25 <jasonparekh_> jasta: though there may be a public API to keep the mobile data network up, not sure
Nov 02 08:06:29 <romainguy_> I found it tedious for day to day use
Nov 02 08:06:34 <romainguy_> but damn, it is very powerful
Nov 02 08:06:36 <gambler> romainguy_, I dont know if you've heard but mono now ships the equivalent of javascript eval for C#... you can make the compiler a library, some awesome features there.
Nov 02 08:06:46 <jasta> jasonparekh_: you mean when you actually get service over wi-fi right?  holding a wifilock won't just arbitrarily shut off the cellular data network right?
Nov 02 08:06:52 <Cedric_> Once you start using it, UNIX pipes look like dinosaurs
Nov 02 08:07:03 <romainguy_> gambler: it's just like using BeanShell or Groovy in eval mode :)
Nov 02 08:07:10 <romainguy_> Cedric_: :)
Nov 02 08:07:21 <jasonparekh_> tiling window managers rock!
Nov 02 08:07:21 <romainguy_> Cedric_: like you said, too bad this is not backed by a good file system :p
Nov 02 08:07:26 <jasta> jasonparekh_: also, how would GTalk deal with that?  with the way wifi works now it would frequently need to reconnect as wifi comes on and goes away
Nov 02 08:07:30 <jasonparekh_> jasta: right
Nov 02 08:07:55 <jasta> (assuming you shut off the cellular network, i mean)
Nov 02 08:07:56 <jasonparekh_> jasta: yep, gtalk (and other background network srevices) listen for connectivity changes and reconnect accordingly
Nov 02 08:08:33 <jasta> hmm, that doesn't seem efficient to me without some logic in place to detect a minimum threshold and reconnect only if below it.
Nov 02 08:08:57 <jasta> but i guess if the mobile network shuts off for wi-fi then there's nothing you could do.
Nov 02 08:09:26 <jasta> that just seems really abrupt to me.  would connections just fail immediately when wi-fi comes on?
Nov 02 08:09:31 <jasonparekh_> jasta: yeah, that's the bottleneck.  our revamped connection manager will be much smarter about managing the different interfaces
Nov 02 08:09:54 <jasonparekh_> jasta: hm, they wouldn't fail because they'd be going over wifi?
Nov 02 08:10:24 <jasta> jasonparekh_: i thought you were saying that when wi-fi is on, the mobile data network is disabled.  so my question was when wi-fi comes on, would all existing connections immediately fail?
Nov 02 08:10:48 <jasta> or does the radio not really shut off, it just is no longer the dfeault route?
Nov 02 08:11:11 <jasonparekh_> jasta: sorry, I meant when wifi is connected to an AP, the mobile data is torn down.
Nov 02 08:11:33 <jasta> yeah that's what i meant by "wi-fi is on" in that case.
Nov 02 08:11:47 <jasonparekh_> yup
Nov 02 08:11:55 <jasta> so existing connections would fail immediately then?
Nov 02 08:12:01 <jasonparekh_> yes
Nov 02 08:12:05 <jasta> ok, interesting
Nov 02 08:12:22 <jasonparekh_> there may be some small overlapping period, but for the most case that's how it works
Nov 02 08:13:28 <Chicago> Before make'ing Android. Is there a build environment variable I can set for my java virtual machine? I keep getting this error "make: *** No rule to make target `run-java-tool', needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'.  Stop."
Nov 02 08:13:47 <jasta> jasonparekh_: how heavy is holding the wifi radio on?
Nov 02 08:13:56 <romainguy_> Chicago: do you have javac & stuff in your PATH?
Nov 02 08:14:12 <jasta> i understand it as being more efficient than the mobile data network for almost every case, so it would really be pretty light to keep on
Nov 02 08:14:30 <jasonparekh_> jasta: it's more expensive than mobile data networks
Nov 02 08:14:41 <jasonparekh_> jasta: especially if there's some amount of broadcast traffic
Nov 02 08:15:01 <jasta> my music player app needs to stream music a lot, but it does work just fine over 3G.  so i was thinking of holding a wifi lock if the mobile data network is less than 3G speeds.
Nov 02 08:15:17 <jasta> but that might not be smart
Nov 02 08:15:44 <umdk1d3> im curious if it keeps lat/lon of ssids youve connected to in the past, and it maybe reduces its scan frequency when outside of areas with previously connected networks
Nov 02 08:15:57 <jasta> maybe i could use a wifilock only if it detects your are connected
Nov 02 08:16:10 <jasta> and if you lose connectivity, release the wifilock
Nov 02 08:16:13 <tomgibara> I'm hazy on the conditions under which it's sensible to retry a failed http connection.
Nov 02 08:16:18 <jasta> by connected, i mean associated with an AP.
Nov 02 08:16:37 <jasta> tomgibara: look for the DownloadProvider in the source tree.  it's got very sophisticated logic for this.
Nov 02 08:16:44 <jasonparekh_> jasta: so having the chipset on, but not associated is okay
Nov 02 08:16:48 <tomgibara> jasta: Thanks for the tip
Nov 02 08:16:54 <umdk1d3> it would be awesome if someone wrote an app to turn off wifi automatically when you leave areas that youve defined, like you home or office
Nov 02 08:17:04 <umdk1d3> or turn off bluetooth if you havent used it in last 15-mins or something
Nov 02 08:17:08 * umdk1d3 pokes locale team
Nov 02 08:17:16 <Chicago> romainguy_: First, I think its because /usr/bin/java is a symlink to run-java-tool. But javac is in /usr/bin which is in my path. This is $PATH of my user which tries to run make -> http://rafb.net/p/JYClVf20.html
Nov 02 08:17:28 <jasta> i actually would prefer to be able to have wifi off always, but at my house T-Mobile only gives me EDGE and my app doesnt work at all over EDGE
Nov 02 08:17:35 <jasta> so its hard to play with it / test :\
Nov 02 08:17:42 <romainguy_> Chicago: what JDK are you using? Sun's?
Nov 02 08:17:58 <Chicago> Yes
Nov 02 08:18:45 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: I just can't see these things being generally practical with GPS/network based location finding.
Nov 02 08:19:49 <jasonparekh_> jasta: so, just to make sure I'm thinking about the same scenario as you.  screen is off (otherwise wifi chipset is on, looking for networks).  if user is on EDGE, you want to grab wifi lock indefinitely, so you can switch over once he comes in range?
Nov 02 08:19:58 <jasta> umdk1d3: well, wi-fi is off when the phone sleeps for a little while
Nov 02 08:20:13 <tomgibara> My experience with the G1 to date is that, around where I live, network location accuracy is typically about 1km, and you have almost no chance of GPS working indoors.
Nov 02 08:20:29 <jasta> jasonparekh_: i want the wifilock so that the system can use wifi when it needs data, which is likely pretty often but not constant.
Nov 02 08:21:28 <Chicago> romainguy_: The package is dev-java/sun-jdk-1.5.0.16
Nov 02 08:21:43 <jasonparekh_> jasta: ok.. the background scan can get expensive if it's always doign it (even when screen is off), so I'd suggest grabbing wifi lock, allow it to check for networks, and release if it doesn't connect
Nov 02 08:21:47 <jasta> tomgibara: GPS doesn't work indoors because of its design.  it needs line of sight to the sky, basically.
Nov 02 08:21:50 <romainguy_> I asked cause I see a bunch of blackdown JDKs in your path
Nov 02 08:22:36 <jasta> jasonparekh_: yeah, that sounds like a good strategy.  that way if the user turns the screen on wifi will return in either case and my apps check for connectivity can happen again
Nov 02 08:22:43 <tomgibara> jasta: Doesn't seem universally true, it does work inside my mother's house for example - one window can be enough it seems.
Nov 02 08:23:15 <jasta> tomgibara: what i meant was, it isn't expected to work indoors.
Nov 02 08:23:43 <jasta> so if it ever does, it's a fluke :)
Nov 02 08:25:06 <Chicago> romainguy_: With gentoo, there is a setup for virtual/jdk installs. I have 1.4, 1.5, and 1.6 available.  Both the system-vm and user-vm are set to sun-jdk-1.5.
Nov 02 08:25:12 <tomgibara> jasta: Yes. My broader point is that I don't see how all of these location based services are expecting to work well using only phone's location hardware.
Nov 02 08:25:24 <romainguy_> Chicago: what do you get when you type javac --version?
Nov 02 08:25:35 <jasta> tomgibara: well, the phone can use google's "my location", which doesn't use GPS
Nov 02 08:25:50 <jasta> and it can also use wi-fi hotspot identification to determine location (which it does seem to do?)
Nov 02 08:26:10 <Chicago> romainguy_: 'javac -version' reports "javac 1.5.0_16" and then gives the usage information.
Nov 02 08:26:18 <jasta> google's "my location" is based on cell tower identification, so that will work just about anywhere with strong service
Nov 02 08:26:28 <romainguy_> Chicago: then I have no idea :)
Nov 02 08:26:43 <jasonparekh_> wi-fi-based location is pretty amazing
Nov 02 08:26:44 <romainguy_> jasta: and where we do have the location of the cells :)
Nov 02 08:26:58 <tomgibara> jasta: As I commented above, network location is only accurate to within roughly 1km where I live
Nov 02 08:27:09 <jasta> romainguy_: right, but you guys get that for major cities by just driving around, right?
Nov 02 08:27:20 <romainguy_> I don't know how we get the data
Nov 02 08:27:28 <jasta> tomgibara: right, but for Locale and such, 1km is probably enough
Nov 02 08:27:36 <jasta> for instance, my work is not within 1km of anywhere else i go except work :)
Nov 02 08:28:09 <gambler> every country's version of the FCC publishes that data, or at least they did before it became evil terrorist information
Nov 02 08:28:12 <tomgibara> jasta: In America where things are more spread out, maybe 1km is enough
Nov 02 08:28:46 <tomgibara> I think its an open question for the urban areas of western Europe
Nov 02 08:29:04 <jasta> well, those services are not intended to work everywhere for everyone.
Nov 02 08:29:14 <jasta> and i think there are lots of apps that have that caveat
Nov 02 08:29:30 <jasta> for instance, my app will be pointless for anyone without a strong 3G network all around them
Nov 02 08:29:35 <jasta> nearly everywhere they go
Nov 02 08:29:46 <jasta> that condition is true for me, and that's why i wrote it :)
Nov 02 08:29:55 <tomgibara> naturally, I've almost finished my location based app, and I make the same caveats
Nov 02 08:40:51 <Chicago> romainguy_: Dang man... I finally figured it out. I misread the info on the download page and explicitly set ANDROID_JAVA_HOME in my environment to /opt/sun-jdk-1.5.0.16.... but I was supposed to set it literally to "$JAVA_HOME"...
Nov 02 08:45:24 <lethalcode> Any reason I might be getting a Resources.NotFoundException error when the resources are there? ...
Nov 02 08:45:36 <lethalcode> I have res.openRawResourceFd(R.raw.words).
Nov 02 08:45:47 <lethalcode> res/raw/words.txt is there, and it's listed inside R.java as well.
Nov 02 08:45:58 <lethalcode> The message from the error reads, oddly:
Nov 02 08:46:16 <lethalcode> "File res/raw/words.txt from drawable resource ID #0x7f040000"
Nov 02 08:47:47 <tric> lethalcode: is i words.txt, or maybe Words.txt?
Nov 02 08:48:05 <lethalcode> tric: words.txt
Nov 02 08:48:14 <lethalcode> res/ doesn't allow upper case characters.
Nov 02 08:48:51 <umdk1d3> its odd that it thinks its a drawable
Nov 02 08:49:14 <lethalcode> umdk1d3: My thoughts exactly.
Nov 02 08:49:56 <jasonparekh_> lethalcode: do a getCause() on the exception
Nov 02 08:50:16 <jasonparekh_> lethalcode: looking at the code, it caches any exception and re-throws it with that drawable message
Nov 02 08:50:26 <lethalcode> Doing so.
Nov 02 08:50:45 <jasonparekh_> catches*
Nov 02 08:51:24 <lethalcode> "This file can not be opened as a file descriptor; it is probably compressed"
Nov 02 08:51:46 * lethalcode mumbles a bit. Gotta use openRawResource, then, it seems.
Nov 02 08:52:54 * lethalcode also mumbles at BufferedInputStream not having readLine.
Nov 02 08:53:55 <lethalcode> Okay, thanks, getCause() set me on my way.
Nov 02 08:54:24 * tomgibara mumbles back that BufferedReader has such a method
Nov 02 08:55:16 <lethalcode> That's why I was using openRawResourceFd.
Nov 02 08:55:32 <lethalcode> I may be missing something, but InputStream can't be passed to BufferedReader.
Nov 02 08:55:39 <tomgibara> Wrap a Reader round it
Nov 02 08:55:40 <systm> DarkriftX, did you find a reader?
Nov 02 08:55:51 <tomgibara> InputStreamReader
Nov 02 08:56:16 <lethalcode> I just found that. Thanks, I feel like an idiot now ;).
Nov 02 08:58:44 <lethalcode> And now another one:
Nov 02 08:58:50 <lethalcode> Data exceeds UNCOMPRESS_DATA_MAX
Nov 02 08:59:36 <lethalcode> Guess I'll split it into several separate files.
Nov 02 08:59:45 <umdk1d3> yea i had to split stuff to be under 1mb
Nov 02 08:59:52 <romainguy_> makes me fear the size of your apk :)
Nov 02 09:00:07 <lethalcode> romainguy_: 512k. I'm making a word game, and using the ENABLE word list.
Nov 02 09:00:44 <romainguy_> I want someone to port Lumines and Meteos to Android :)
Nov 02 09:02:00 <umdk1d3> hmm gameloft has written a port of lunines, and they have android people
Nov 02 09:02:07 <romainguy_> sweet
Nov 02 09:02:10 <romainguy_> can't wait
Nov 02 09:02:24 <jasta> i find that i really enjoy MisMisMatch
Nov 02 09:03:26 <lethalcode> A'ight. G'night, guys, and thanks for the help =).
Nov 02 09:03:40 <jasta> never even heard of it before android
Nov 02 09:04:13 <umdk1d3> ohcrap  "On the first Sunday in November, clocks are set back one hour at 2:00 a.m. local daylight time, which becomes 1:00 a.m. local standard time."
Nov 02 09:04:41 <jasta> you didnt know it was daylight savings time? :)
Nov 02 09:04:50 <umdk1d3> wait, i think my zonefile might have automatically changed it for me
Nov 02 09:04:56 <muthu> you get an extra hour of tv watching ;)
Nov 02 09:05:01 <umdk1d3> i thought it felt later than it was
Nov 02 09:05:04 <geist> yeah, welcome to the hour you lost in march
Nov 02 09:05:31 <umdk1d3> yay its MST instead of MDT now  ^.^
Nov 02 09:06:15 <Adamant> computers usually do it automatically if they have the right patch for current DST setup and not the old one
Nov 02 09:06:31 <jasta> also, linux machines typically do it as a function of ntp.
Nov 02 09:06:45 <Adamant> well, all major OS's
Nov 02 09:07:03 <umdk1d3> i thought it was based on the time interpritation instructions in /etc/localtime
Nov 02 09:07:14 <Adamant> it is usually
Nov 02 09:14:27 <spikebike> weird
Nov 02 09:14:35 <spikebike> my g1's clock at the top say 1:32
Nov 02 09:14:45 <spikebike> but the lock screen says 1:16
Nov 02 09:22:42 <geist> yeah, mine is whacked out too
Nov 02 09:22:52 <geist> says it's 1:44 on the lock screen (it's 1:22)
Nov 02 09:23:15 <geist> oh well, actually worse than that. says it's 1:44 even once i log in
Nov 02 09:23:29 <spikebike> powercycle fixed mine
Nov 02 09:23:33 <spikebike> both now read corrct
Nov 02 09:24:04 <geist> did it get out of whack before the time zone change?
Nov 02 09:25:29 <geist> oh weird
Nov 02 09:25:30 <geist> it's not moving
Nov 02 09:25:37 <geist> it's stuck at 1:44
Nov 02 09:26:35 <geist> i betcha it's a display bug
Nov 02 09:26:44 <geist> system time moved back, but the title bar got confused
Nov 02 09:26:48 <geist> so it wont update itself or something
Nov 02 09:27:04 <geist> i betcha when it gets to be 1:44 it'll pick up and start updating
Nov 02 09:27:27 <geist> and the first 1:44 was the last time it updated
Nov 02 09:38:55 <jsherman> does g1 have bluetooth?
Nov 02 09:39:39 <jsherman> if not, clock problems night be same as in emulator
Nov 02 09:44:50 <jasta> jsherman: it has bluetooth.
Nov 02 09:45:02 <jsherman> ok nm then
Nov 02 10:01:54 <geist> yep, it resolved itself as it hit 1:44
Nov 02 10:14:11 <spikebike> ah so
Nov 02 10:14:24 <spikebike> it only updates when time > display time
Nov 02 10:14:55 <geist> yeah
Nov 02 10:15:43 <geist> i can just imagine the bug. it's probably something like in most cases the time is set from the java level, so the menu gets the update
Nov 02 10:16:01 <geist> but this is the one case where the os will set it from underneath java
Nov 02 10:16:10 <geist> and so it doesn't catch the change, etc
Nov 02 10:22:28 <eleftherios> has anyone managed to use a G1 without creating/using a Google account?
Nov 02 10:22:49 <Dialekt> boooo
Nov 02 10:25:57 <spikebike> do you have religious objections?
Nov 02 10:27:33 <eleftherios> no, I just don't want to create an account. I don't need it, I have my own mail server etc.
Nov 02 10:27:50 <languish> eleftherios "it doesn't work that way"
Nov 02 10:28:13 <languish> it's a "t-mobile g1 *with google*"
Nov 02 10:28:21 <languish> welcome to the cloud
Nov 02 10:28:31 <eleftherios> It is *my* hardware
Nov 02 10:28:34 <eleftherios> I paid for it
Nov 02 10:28:49 <eleftherios> and I have a right to use in any way I want
Nov 02 10:29:09 <eleftherios> :-)
Nov 02 10:29:09 <Dialekt> should i grab a g1 tomorrow ?
Nov 02 10:29:12 <languish> you paid for a locked down piece of technology. if you figure out how to get around the locked down part...
Nov 02 10:29:27 <Dialekt> locked down piece of technology?
Nov 02 10:29:28 <Dialekt> NO
Nov 02 10:29:31 <Dialekt> I PAID FOR ONE OF THOSE
Nov 02 10:29:37 <Dialekt> STUPID iPhonian in my hands
Nov 02 10:29:38 <Dialekt> :9
Nov 02 10:29:50 <Dialekt> languish: happy with your g1 yet ?
Nov 02 10:30:12 <languish> Dialekt, still mixed feeling, but i do find it to be very entertaining all around
Nov 02 10:30:19 <languish> +s
Nov 02 10:30:59 <languish> my wife likes it
Nov 02 10:31:06 <Dialekt> mixed feelings in comparison to another device or to what you were "expecting" ???
Nov 02 10:31:10 <languish> but she's *really* annoyed with t-mobile
Nov 02 10:31:27 <languish> due to the constant service outages
Nov 02 10:32:19 <languish> well there are things I like about the G1, and things I don't
Nov 02 10:32:24 <languish> the camera is practically useless to me
Nov 02 10:32:24 <Dialekt> hmm..
Nov 02 10:32:34 <Dialekt> yeah .. ive been spoiled by cameras
Nov 02 10:32:41 <Dialekt> hence using nokias for a very long time
Nov 02 10:32:47 <Dialekt> everything else is useless in comparison
Nov 02 10:32:49 <languish> even with the awesome apps that use the camera, I couldn't use them in a number of situations due to poor lighting
Nov 02 10:32:59 <Dialekt> i really need to grab a camera on its own
Nov 02 10:33:03 <languish> the camera is crap
Nov 02 10:33:03 <Dialekt> im sick of phone cameras
Nov 02 10:33:05 <Dialekt> and tweaking
Nov 02 10:33:40 * spikebike is very happy with the g1... and even the camera
Nov 02 10:34:00 <languish> now, I get a real kick out of the market, and seein the new apps pop up, and reading all the hilarious comments
Nov 02 10:34:10 <languish> except for the spam and the "firsts"
Nov 02 10:34:24 <spikebike> I was reading during a dog walk and kept opening new browser windows
Nov 02 10:34:34 <spikebike> I was impressed on how well it handled them
Nov 02 10:35:05 <languish> yes, I'm happy with the browser, at least WHEN it remembers addresses and when I have 3g, which has been about 3 or 4 days out of 7
Nov 02 10:35:51 <spikebike> heh
Nov 02 10:35:52 <languish> I'll live with the 3g hardware for a few months
Nov 02 10:35:57 <languish> until a better device comes along
Nov 02 10:36:01 <spikebike> I don't mind it on edge, I was kinda surprised how fast edge is
Nov 02 10:36:12 <languish> oh, edge would have even been nice
Nov 02 10:36:16 <spikebike> I guess I shouldn't be surprised, the original iphone folks sounded pretty happy
Nov 02 10:36:26 <languish> today, and the other day, we even lost voice service for hours
Nov 02 10:36:32 <spikebike> wow, where are you?
Nov 02 10:36:35 <languish> nyc
Nov 02 10:36:52 <languish> it worked on our razr's, not on our g1's. yay tmo
Nov 02 10:37:00 <spikebike> strang
Nov 02 10:37:00 <spikebike> e
Nov 02 10:37:11 <spikebike> I did hear about folks having their g1 on "free" data for 1 week
Nov 02 10:37:14 <languish> it wasn't isolated to us, some web forums are full of customers complaining about the same thing
Nov 02 10:37:22 <spikebike> but then it expired and requires readding the data
Nov 02 10:37:27 <spikebike> all in nyc?
Nov 02 10:37:33 <languish> yeah
Nov 02 10:37:44 <languish> different areas across the city
Nov 02 10:38:26 <Dialekt> man
Nov 02 10:38:31 <Dialekt> i really wanna give that device a shot
Nov 02 10:38:34 <Dialekt> more so than the storm
Nov 02 10:38:39 <languish> Dialekt, it's worth playing with
Nov 02 10:38:40 <Dialekt> but the storm is just gonna bulletproof
Nov 02 10:38:42 <languish> it's a fun device
Nov 02 10:38:44 <Dialekt> as most blackberries are
Nov 02 10:38:48 <languish> android is nice, if still very much a beta
Nov 02 10:38:50 <Dialekt> but i know what to expect with a blackberry
Nov 02 10:39:00 <languish> but they really shouldn't be selling the G1 at retail
Nov 02 10:39:07 <Dialekt> yeah but i wonder what's so new about it
Nov 02 10:39:10 <languish> it's just not well rounded enough yet
Nov 02 10:39:15 <Dialekt> like in comparison to other devices
Nov 02 10:39:17 <Dialekt> hmm..
Nov 02 10:39:18 <Dialekt> i see
Nov 02 10:39:26 <languish> the screen is very nice
Nov 02 10:39:33 <languish> the method of swiveling the screen is nice
Nov 02 10:40:00 <languish> having the trackball is a very nice addition to touch screen and the keybaord
Nov 02 10:40:15 <languish> the keyboard I could take or leave.. it's functional, but the htc touch pro's is much better
Nov 02 10:40:51 <languish> the OS is nice and snappy, good response
Nov 02 10:41:01 <languish> it has upseides and down
Nov 02 10:41:19 <phyburn> I'm trying to make a game clock, and I was able to create it in java today but I didn't think android wouldn't have ActionListeners. What should I use instead?
Nov 02 10:41:36 <languish> the downs will most likely be fixed with future revisions, but the device overall right now, isn't to be relied on as a day to day phone
Nov 02 10:41:47 <Dialekt> yeah but what other devices
Nov 02 10:41:51 <Dialekt> have u been using?
Nov 02 10:42:01 <Dialekt> would u rather go back to them only for stability>
Nov 02 10:42:02 <Dialekt> ?
Nov 02 10:42:07 <languish> touch pro, some other winmo's
Nov 02 10:42:10 <Dialekt> or can u live with its current shortcomings?
Nov 02 10:42:13 <spikebike> languish that seems pretty strong
Nov 02 10:42:23 <spikebike> I've definitely had worse phones
Nov 02 10:42:24 <languish> it's my opinion
Nov 02 10:42:38 <languish> between mine, my wife's, and our neighbors that have the G1
Nov 02 10:42:53 <spikebike> heh my wife and 2 friends have them
Nov 02 10:43:04 <spikebike> and one of their wives
Nov 02 10:43:05 <languish> it's kinda cool, we like it, but it's not ready for prime time. too many little glitches, like the email problems
Nov 02 10:43:11 <jasta> i can't even fathom choosing any WinMo phone over the G1.
Nov 02 10:43:13 <languish> my wife likes it
Nov 02 10:43:16 <languish> but she's frustrated with it
Nov 02 10:43:23 <spikebike> oh?  with what?
Nov 02 10:43:23 <jasta> i have been a windows mobile user for years and its miserably bad
Nov 02 10:43:32 <spikebike> the 2 wives seem pleased
Nov 02 10:43:41 <languish> my wife's more techy than most
Nov 02 10:43:52 <languish> then again, in this company.. who knows
Nov 02 10:43:57 <spikebike> I expected worse considering how new the platform is, crashes and the like
Nov 02 10:44:06 <languish> well we do get crashes
Nov 02 10:44:19 <languish> rather it turns off and doesn't turn back on until the battery's removed
Nov 02 10:44:25 <spikebike> wow
Nov 02 10:44:29 <languish> (and replaced)
Nov 02 10:44:32 <spikebike> I've not seen that
Nov 02 10:44:38 <languish> lucky us :)
Nov 02 10:44:40 <jasta> neither have i.
Nov 02 10:44:51 <jasta> mine has been running since the day i got it
Nov 02 10:45:12 <languish> cool
Nov 02 10:45:14 <jasta> well, that's not true, i did have to hard reset it when i discovered some irritating shortcoming with package signing :)
Nov 02 10:45:15 <spikebike> I use mine pretty hard as well
Nov 02 10:45:20 <phyburn> what do you use instead of Actionlisteners?
Nov 02 10:45:20 <languish> I've heard up and down stories from all sides
Nov 02 10:45:38 <spikebike> languish I'm definitely interested in your experience
Nov 02 10:46:24 <spikebike> I'd say in general if you drink the coolaid, use gmail, like gmaps, don't mind managing contacts on google's servers it's a pretty good all around phone
Nov 02 10:46:39 <languish> my own experience is that mostly due to t-mobile, partially due to htc, and becuase of some of the shortcomings of android needing a little more maturity, it's not a ready for primetime device. It should have been released AS a beta, or sold directly to dev's first
Nov 02 10:46:40 <spikebike> not as slick and polished as an iphone
Nov 02 10:46:50 <spikebike> (although much more functional in various ways)
Nov 02 10:46:51 <languish> spikebike, I drink the coolaid
Nov 02 10:47:19 <languish> I just don't turn into an evangelist because I drank the cool aid. I turn in to an evangelist because I'm wowed by the product
Nov 02 10:47:20 <spikebike> languish sure, just sharing my thoughts as well, not trying to speak fo rya
Nov 02 10:47:34 <spikebike> so it doesn't do imap as well as others
Nov 02 10:47:38 <languish> heh dude
Nov 02 10:47:47 <jasta> spikebike: i'm working on that ;)
Nov 02 10:47:48 <spikebike> doesn't do irc at all
Nov 02 10:47:54 <spikebike> doesnt' have a great ebook reader
Nov 02 10:47:54 <languish> it spammed a friend of mine with 8 messaged WHILE I was composing 1
Nov 02 10:48:06 <spikebike> languish ya, I remember reading about that
Nov 02 10:48:06 <languish> basically sending during the composing
Nov 02 10:48:08 <spikebike> via imap?
Nov 02 10:48:10 <languish> nutty
Nov 02 10:48:12 <spikebike> or gmail?
Nov 02 10:48:13 <languish> spikebike, yeah
Nov 02 10:48:17 <languish> no not gmail
Nov 02 10:48:23 <languish> the gmail app, the gchat, works perfectly
Nov 02 10:48:27 <spikebike> see the cool aide ;-)
Nov 02 10:48:30 <languish> :)
Nov 02 10:48:36 <jasta> i am quite familiar with the Email apps code base at this point and i can tell you there are lots of bugs in it
Nov 02 10:48:36 <languish> except some of us have to use other addys
Nov 02 10:48:39 <jasta> it was a rushed app
Nov 02 10:48:48 <languish> and infact, it was a secong gmail addy that was being used, int he email app
Nov 02 10:48:48 <spikebike> yeah I'm pretty impressed with gchat, it basically removes my need for sms
Nov 02 10:48:51 <jasta> but it is well written none-the-less, and easily fixed.
Nov 02 10:48:57 <languish> whicht he email app auto-set up for imap
Nov 02 10:49:09 <spikebike> jasta yeah, seemed like google wanted to wait till 2009
Nov 02 10:49:18 <spikebike> but tmo wanted to roll it out with 3g so they cut some corners
Nov 02 10:49:19 <jasta> spikebike: i've been hacking extensively on the Email app for the past week
Nov 02 10:49:32 <spikebike> jasta yeah, I've been following.  Got idle working yet?
Nov 02 10:49:32 <languish> tmo wasn't ready to roll out with 3g
Nov 02 10:49:36 <languish> they still aren't
Nov 02 10:49:47 <spikebike> heh, well they are.... for some cities
Nov 02 10:49:57 <languish> perhaps
Nov 02 10:49:59 <languish> not in nyc
Nov 02 10:50:03 <spikebike> but yeah there's some issues along the way
Nov 02 10:50:05 <jasta> spikebike: i've had it working for a week, but i'm rewriting my support to be optimal
Nov 02 10:50:10 <spikebike> sacramento hasn't had any isuses I know of
Nov 02 10:50:21 <spikebike> jasta that kind of thing warms my soul
Nov 02 10:50:26 <jasta> spikebike: my first crack at it was just a lame hack.  right now i'm doing major surgery.
Nov 02 10:50:43 <spikebike> actually improving a build in app, imagine that... why can't anyone else allowing that
Nov 02 10:50:47 <languish> I'm used to tmo doing this, but I'm not used to not having voice service for over an hours (in this case half the day, again)
Nov 02 10:50:47 <jasta> i'm wrapping up the first set of changes though.
Nov 02 10:51:06 <spikebike> languish that's out of control.. I wonder if the story will come out
Nov 02 10:51:07 <languish> previously, when they had their edge rollout, and back in 2000 when they transitioned from voicestream
Nov 02 10:51:22 <languish> months of headaches, but short lived each one
Nov 02 10:51:23 <spikebike> heh my previous phone (that the g1 replaced) was bought from AT&T
Nov 02 10:51:35 <spikebike> but spent 100% on tmo... and always reported voicestream
Nov 02 10:51:48 <languish> heh
Nov 02 10:51:54 <chris_debian> Guys, I haven't got my G1 yet, but was wondering how the software gets updated (in light of the past comments). What I mean is, will the updates be automatic, like on most GNU/Linux distros?
Nov 02 10:52:14 <languish> chris_debian, yes it's automatic, over the air.
Nov 02 10:52:15 <jasta> chris_debian: the updates are pestering, not automatic.
Nov 02 10:52:28 <spikebike> well they download automatially
Nov 02 10:52:35 <spikebike> but don't apply till approved (right?)
Nov 02 10:53:01 <chris_debian> Cheers, guys.  So it looks like these initial buggy bits will get worked out and be applied fairly quickly.
Nov 02 10:53:02 <jasta> chris_debian: and the commits likely will be built up into a 1.1 stable release and then updated.  no small incremental changes will make it in surely.
Nov 02 10:53:25 <chris_debian> Cool.
Nov 02 10:54:53 <languish> chris_debian, the software side should be juuust fine after a few updates
Nov 02 10:55:08 <languish> which my guess is will take a number of months to come
Nov 02 10:55:31 <languish> just don't expect to take decent pics under anything but decent sunlight
Nov 02 10:55:56 <chris_debian> Well my current contract ends in December, so things may be a bit better then.  It still sounds like the device is much more mature than Openmoko.
Nov 02 10:56:03 <swetland> jasta: yeah, the nature of carrier acceptance means that doing rapid/continuous updates is difficult
Nov 02 10:56:17 <Dialekt> i really am torn between the g1, going back to symbian, or the storm
Nov 02 10:56:24 <Dialekt> i kinda hate using my iPhone..
Nov 02 10:56:29 <swetland> critical/security fixes are likely to see a fast track, most other stuff bundled into periodic updates
Nov 02 10:56:36 <Dialekt> all though a variety of features are just a software update away
Nov 02 10:56:46 <Dialekt> i dont think apple has the balls to give us what we want
Nov 02 10:56:48 <Dialekt> so that's out
Nov 02 10:58:19 <spikebike> chris_debian way way more mature than openmoko
Nov 02 10:59:17 <spikebike> dialekt big advantages over iphone: multitasking, cut/paste, MMS, and filltime gtalk
Nov 02 10:59:22 <languish> as long as you don't *need* the g1 for windows environment specific backend connectivity at this time, or the camera, I'd say get the G1 for the fun of it
Nov 02 10:59:35 <chris_debian> I'd been waiting to get my Openmoko, but it's come to the crunch, and apparently Openmoko has terrible call quality, and that's just not acceptable on a telephone!  Shame, as I liked the openness of the project.
Nov 02 10:59:40 <Dialekt> windows environment?
Nov 02 10:59:42 <Dialekt> i use a mac
Nov 02 10:59:53 <languish> then you're fine :)
Nov 02 10:59:55 <Dialekt> i do like the symbian platform..
Nov 02 10:59:57 <Dialekt> though
Nov 02 11:00:05 <Dialekt> mainly because of the extreme hardware
Nov 02 11:00:11 <Dialekt> but their logic is retarded
Nov 02 11:00:14 <languish> but I said windows *back end*.. usng exchange server.. etc
Nov 02 11:00:19 <Dialekt> or just not logical.
Nov 02 11:00:38 <jasta> languish: we use Exchange at work but i wouldnt say anyone needs integration with it.  just set up your outlook calendar to sync with google calendar and then hook up IMAP for e-mail
Nov 02 11:00:43 <Dialekt> ooo exchange server options can be crucial but since I havent used them in such a long time ..push is not mandatory
Nov 02 11:01:00 <languish> jasta, depends on your company policies
Nov 02 11:01:01 <spikebike> I crashed 3 different distributions at linuxworld (on the openmoko)
Nov 02 11:01:03 <Dialekt> any missing entries/fields you wish that gmail had?
Nov 02 11:01:18 <jasta> languish: you mean if they don't allow IMAP?  well, bonehead IT people should be bitchslapped into submission.
Nov 02 11:01:22 <Dialekt> i don't want any missing info if I synced with google.
Nov 02 11:01:44 <languish> jasta, or if they don't allow you to sync with google calendar either :P
Nov 02 11:01:53 <jasta> the solution is the same
Nov 02 11:02:00 <languish> 'eh, not always so simple
Nov 02 11:02:17 <spikebike> the g1 is way better hardware.  3G, quad band, keyboard, better battery life, more reliable, etc.
Nov 02 11:02:19 <languish> Dialekt, zero issues witht he calendar app on my end
Nov 02 11:02:25 <jasta> i am an IT person, and yes i know that convincing other lesser admins of things can be difficult
Nov 02 11:02:36 <Dialekt> what about contacts
Nov 02 11:02:43 <jasta> but it can be done, if you sufficiently prove that they are retarded :)
Nov 02 11:02:55 <jasta> Dialekt: contacts can work the same way if you want.  just make outlook do it.
Nov 02 11:02:57 <spikebike> dialekt it's kinda lame.  Gmail.com allows editing grouping contacts
Nov 02 11:03:11 <spikebike> but the g1 just has a big list, it auto-syncs if you want
Nov 02 11:03:17 <Dialekt> ?
Nov 02 11:03:23 <Dialekt> grouping  contacts?
Nov 02 11:03:24 <languish> jasta, it's not just the admins. it's the executives that have external security auditing going on and use their recommendations to enforce controls on IT
Nov 02 11:03:28 <Dialekt> meaning contact groups etc?
Nov 02 11:03:35 <Dialekt> distribution lists like on blackberry?
Nov 02 11:04:24 <spikebike> dialekt say you have a group for friends, one for family, one for work
Nov 02 11:04:43 <spikebike> not mailing list, just grouping for ease of finding em
Nov 02 11:05:00 <Dialekt> yeah
Nov 02 11:05:06 <Dialekt> and there's ONE BIG LIST on g1?
Nov 02 11:05:07 <Dialekt> wtf?
Nov 02 11:05:14 <spikebike> yeah, seems a little rushed
Nov 02 11:05:20 <swetland> I actually the app knows about groups
Nov 02 11:05:27 <swetland> and you can choose which group you want to see
Nov 02 11:05:31 <spikebike> oh you can?
Nov 02 11:05:34 * spikebike checks
Nov 02 11:05:36 <swetland> but there's no local ui, so you have to setup groups using the web stuff
Nov 02 11:05:42 <swetland> which is unfortunate
Nov 02 11:05:52 <swetland> there's a "view which group" menu option
Nov 02 11:06:07 <languish> hah nice new app in the Market
Nov 02 11:06:13 <languish> use the phone as a level
Nov 02 11:07:11 * spikebike takes it back
Nov 02 11:07:17 <spikebike> swetland thanks
Nov 02 11:07:33 <spikebike> and it doesn't bother me that you have to create them on the web
Nov 02 11:07:34 <languish> ah which reminds me. if you need a specific app *now* to function well, for example.. you need a fully featured video player.. then wait on the g1. it has a basic video play, it works, I use it, but it has some useability issues, needs polish.
Nov 02 11:08:14 <languish> if you can wait for updates to it, great, but for certain tasks, you may need to wait until you, or someone else, develops the app to satisfy them
Nov 02 11:08:41 <languish> if you can't wait for something another device does that the g1 doesn't "yet" then wait
Nov 02 11:09:03 <languish> if you're a dev, get it anyway and code for it, your efforts will be worth it
Nov 02 11:09:56 <spikebike> with that said, even if you write nothing it's a very useful phone.. not yet an awesome mp3 player, movie player, etc...
Nov 02 11:10:33 <jasta> yay, my new patch is so far 1300 lines :)
Nov 02 11:10:34 <Dialekt> dunno
Nov 02 11:10:39 <jasta> and there's still more to do
Nov 02 11:10:39 <languish> heh
Nov 02 11:10:43 <Dialekt> what about for everyday use
Nov 02 11:10:48 <Dialekt> for a text messaging whore like me?
Nov 02 11:10:50 <spikebike> it's fine (IMO)
Nov 02 11:10:50 <swetland> spikebike: I'd prefer that there were local UI.  Hopefully we'll fix that ^^
Nov 02 11:10:54 <Dialekt> i use the web all the time..
Nov 02 11:10:59 <Dialekt> i use irc often..
Nov 02 11:11:03 <languish> for text messaging it's fine, as long as you have service...
Nov 02 11:11:05 <Dialekt> i use AIM RELIGIOUSLY
Nov 02 11:11:14 <languish> aim it's less hot on
Nov 02 11:11:15 <spikebike> no irc client afaik, but there is ssh
Nov 02 11:11:19 <languish> move to gchat
Nov 02 11:11:27 <spikebike> I use gtalk which I like, which does aim, but I don't use it that way
Nov 02 11:11:31 <spikebike> er gchat
Nov 02 11:11:39 <spikebike> try the googlegadget, its' very similar
Nov 02 11:11:43 <languish> gchat is the bees knees
Nov 02 11:11:58 <spikebike> dialekt you can try the simulator, it's a decent representation
Nov 02 11:12:16 <spikebike> yeah I like gchat over SMS because it's free, and it works over wifi and cellular
Nov 02 11:13:54 <eleftherios> ah, http://www.oblomovka.com/wp/2008/11/01/confirmed-by-android-team-g1-only-accepts-firmware-signed-by-manufacturer/
Nov 02 11:13:56 <Dialekt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGTUmUTQsdU
Nov 02 11:13:58 <Dialekt> whoo ho
Nov 02 11:14:08 <Dialekt> gchat sucks
Nov 02 11:14:17 <Dialekt> simulator doesn't mac worky
Nov 02 11:14:30 <Dialekt> gchat doesn't suck but i dont know many people who use it/pay attention to it
Nov 02 11:14:33 <spikebike> svetland interesting looks like there's a big bug
Nov 02 11:14:42 <spikebike> er swetland
Nov 02 11:14:50 <spikebike> only user created groups show
Nov 02 11:15:00 <spikebike> but the google default groups like family don't carry over
Nov 02 11:15:51 <Dialekt> im excited
Nov 02 11:15:57 <Dialekt> i got featured in the biggest spoof on the web
Nov 02 11:15:58 <Dialekt> :)
Nov 02 11:20:30 <coding1> does the G1 plays HD 1080p?
Nov 02 11:21:02 <languish> only if you reencode it down to a format and size playable by the G1 :)
Nov 02 11:22:07 <coding1> when will be coming the g2?
Nov 02 11:23:01 <PoohbaLT> ugh.  i need a file viewer.  y didn't one come with the device?  :(
Nov 02 11:25:41 <tweakt> what good is 1080p on 480x320?
Nov 02 11:25:52 <tweakt> think about it ;-)
Nov 02 11:26:58 <spikebike> it would be kinda cool to not have to transcode
Nov 02 11:27:14 <languish> on a ~500mhz processor?
Nov 02 11:27:26 <languish> try playing 1080p on any 500mhz machine
Nov 02 11:27:30 <languish> *pc
Nov 02 11:27:37 <languish> not happening
Nov 02 11:27:53 <languish> so why would you expect a handset to do it?
Nov 02 11:28:03 <coding1> i can play HD in pocketPc's
Nov 02 11:28:22 <languish> you cannot play a 1080p file on a typical pocketpc
Nov 02 11:28:35 <languish> perhaps you can stream a file that's being encoded on the fly
Nov 02 11:28:44 <languish> that's not the same thing
Nov 02 11:29:09 <coding1> no i just copy paste to the SD and plays
Nov 02 11:29:15 <languish> damnit
Nov 02 11:29:45 <languish> i just realized the g1 browser doesn't have refresh :|
Nov 02 11:30:11 <coding1> install opera mini
Nov 02 11:30:43 <languish> i have my own reasons for not using opera mini, thanks though :)
Nov 02 11:30:57 <coding1> midget related?
Nov 02 11:32:04 <languish> sure, blame the little people whydontcha
Nov 02 11:32:05 <Adamant> coding1: midget is not the preferred nomenclature, dude
Nov 02 11:32:31 <Adamant> gahh, sleeeeeeep
Nov 02 11:47:36 <languish> akin to sms, what transport protocol does gchat use?
Nov 02 11:48:44 <ErikT> Does anybody know if when you send a text message via the SmsManager, a copy of the message is placed in the messaging outbox?
Nov 02 11:53:24 <tweakt> does anyone know if there are USB adapters with a microphone jack? I'd like to use my G1 to record but need better audio
Nov 02 11:54:59 <mimor> is there a way to put android on the sonyericsson p910I ?
Nov 02 11:58:57 <languish> ahh I remmeber
Nov 02 11:59:06 <languish> n/m my last question
Nov 02 11:59:58 <spikebike> er languish?  no refresh?
Nov 02 12:00:15 <spikebike> is opera available for android?
Nov 02 12:02:16 <languish> opera mini is
Nov 02 12:02:31 <spikebike> oh?
Nov 02 12:02:35 <spikebike> news to me
Nov 02 12:02:39 <languish> or so I've been told
Nov 02 12:02:43 <spikebike> the built in browser does have refresh
Nov 02 12:02:58 <languish> ah wait
Nov 02 12:03:18 <languish> <coding1> install opera mini
Nov 02 12:03:52 <languish> yep, there is opera mini for android
Nov 02 12:03:58 <spikebike> ya found it
Nov 02 12:04:10 <spikebike> if you try it let me know, I'm pretty happy with the builtin
Nov 02 12:04:13 <languish> http://labs.opera.com/downloads/OperaMini.apk
Nov 02 12:04:16 <spikebike> and refresh is under menu ;-)
Nov 02 12:04:24 <languish> yeah I'm not going to be installing opera mini
Nov 02 12:04:47 <languish> oh duh
Nov 02 12:05:01 <languish> I was looking for it in the damnshortcuts
Nov 02 12:05:29 <languish> spike, thanks
Nov 02 12:05:39 <Dialekt> dammit
Nov 02 12:06:33 <languish> i think I need my two hours of sleep
Nov 02 12:06:43 <languish> o/
Nov 02 12:06:54 <Dialekt> man
Nov 02 12:07:03 <Dialekt> another thing i love about the blackberry are all the shortcuts
Nov 02 12:07:10 <Dialekt> that's gonna be odd without a keyboard on the STORM
Nov 02 12:07:51 <mimor> Is there already some manufacturer that will ship their android-based phones to europe?
Nov 02 12:08:10 <languish> t-mobile sells the G1 in the .uk
Nov 02 12:10:05 <mimor> hmmm
Nov 02 12:10:23 <mimor> but the problem is, I'm in belgium, and T-mobile doesn't operate here...
Nov 02 12:10:36 <mimor> (yet)
Nov 02 12:11:43 <languish> wife's g1 just updated
Nov 02 12:11:53 <languish> mine, sitting 2 feet from it, did not
Nov 02 12:11:58 <languish> :\
Nov 02 12:12:11 <languish> and now her's connect to t-mobile as roaming
Nov 02 12:12:25 <languish> *connects
Nov 02 12:16:04 <Delvien> morning
Nov 02 12:18:45 <mimor> is it possible to buy it sim-lock free in the uk?
Nov 02 12:19:44 <mimor> as i found out it will get sold in the netherlands somewhere the first months of 2009 for aprox €308
Nov 02 12:26:22 <jasta> _wow_
Nov 02 12:26:43 <jasta> i just put together a 2000 line patch that worked on first run
Nov 02 12:27:00 <jasta> i am baffled
Nov 02 12:27:19 * spikebike wishes mind did
Nov 02 12:27:24 <spikebike> languish are you on 3g?
Nov 02 12:27:27 <jasta> i suppose i did implement this feature once before, but still i did it much crappier last time
Nov 02 12:27:40 <jasta> oops, there's the first bug :)
Nov 02 12:27:41 <jasta> hehe
Nov 02 12:37:03 * spikebike sleeps
Nov 02 12:37:30 <spikebike> languish is your wife using the standard 1GB card that came with the phone?
Nov 02 12:39:05 * tweakt just discovered "Emulator Controls" view in Eclipse... wow, awsome!
Nov 02 12:40:22 <jasta> ddms (stand alone) has lots more options too
Nov 02 12:41:48 <tweakt> Is there anything I can do to get more responsive playback of sounds? I'm using MediaPlayer and calling start() in response to click events. Sometimes they delay random amounts
Nov 02 12:42:26 <PoohbaLT> ugh!  how do u delete albums?  I've ran out of space
Nov 02 12:42:42 <PoohbaLT> this is why a file browser would be helpful
Nov 02 12:57:50 <andatche> a proper file browser would be very useful :)
Nov 02 12:58:33 <Delvien> andatche: there is one on the market
Nov 02 12:58:43 <andatche> yeah, I have that one isntalled
Nov 02 12:58:48 <andatche> it's rather basic though
Nov 02 12:59:18 <Delvien> what more do you need?
Nov 02 13:00:35 <phyburn> anyone mind taking a look at my code and letting me know where I failed with my Timer http://pastebin.com/m386d7fd7
Nov 02 13:01:05 <Delvien> phyburn:  what kind of timer
Nov 02 13:01:20 <phyburn> I'm trying to create a clock that displays the time
Nov 02 13:01:28 <phyburn> so I need it to run over and over untill the application is closed
Nov 02 13:02:02 <Delvien> o
Nov 02 13:02:24 <phyburn> I got it working with umm java standared? lol I don;t know what you call it
Nov 02 13:02:48 <phyburn> then I thought it would work with android but I didn't know android doesn;t have ActionListener
Nov 02 13:07:35 <mimor> How do I put android on an existing phone?
Nov 02 13:07:41 <mimor> if it is possible at all
Nov 02 13:08:55 <CompBrain> depends on the phone
Nov 02 13:20:34 <tweakt> Anyone have problems playing very short sounds?
Nov 02 13:22:32 <tweakt> I'm using MediaPlayer, I think OnCompletionListener doesn't fire sometimes?
Nov 02 13:23:22 <phyburn> any good android forums out there for developers?
Nov 02 13:23:47 <gambler> phyburn, anddev.org
Nov 02 13:24:34 <phyburn> thanks gambler
Nov 02 13:24:46 <phyburn> need some helpzzz
Nov 02 14:01:17 <tweakt> I'm definitely having problems with playback of very short audio files (< 150ms)
Nov 02 14:01:37 <tweakt> sometimes just do not play, though the API response normally
Nov 02 14:18:55 <tweakt> Should I be using multiple MediaPlayer instances for each sound effect, or just one and setting data source each time?
Nov 02 14:19:15 <tweakt> cause this way is really inconsistent
Nov 02 14:31:21 <jelg> I was wondering about the Android debug-protocol between Eclipse and the target: is it based on gdb? (documented somewhere?)
Nov 02 14:42:33 <elad> if I wanted to write a little back ground app to send my cordinates to a webserver say every 5minutes
Nov 02 14:42:46 <elad> would threading be needed for this?
Nov 02 14:46:07 <tweakt> You'd want to write it as a Service
Nov 02 14:46:07 <gambler> elad yep.
Nov 02 14:46:38 <tweakt> because your activity will be suspended if you switch away from it
Nov 02 14:46:41 <elad> and this should be very simplistic I assume?
Nov 02 14:46:51 <elad> thanks for the advice tweak
Nov 02 14:47:01 <tweakt> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Service.html
Nov 02 14:47:32 <elad> thanks
Nov 02 14:47:39 <tweakt> In the service you start a thread
Nov 02 14:58:52 <kaner> hi, i am doing the notepad tutorial on linux, eclipse. i get a "serListAdapter unknown" in a class derived from ListActivity. Any pointers?
Nov 02 14:59:22 <kaner> also, this.<list of routines> in eclipse does not show "serListAdapter()"
Nov 02 15:00:09 <tweakt> your activity must extend ListActivity
Nov 02 15:00:26 <kaner> it does
Nov 02 15:00:39 <kaner> public class Notepadv1 extends ListActivity
Nov 02 15:01:40 <gambler> maybe try setListAdapter instead?
Nov 02 15:02:06 <kaner> argh!
Nov 02 15:02:11 <kaner> thanks
Nov 02 15:02:41 <kaner> that also explains this: "Your search - listactivity serListAdapter - did not match any documents."
Nov 02 15:02:44 <kaner> ;)
Nov 02 15:03:17 <gambler> np
Nov 02 15:22:52 <michaelnovakjr__> yawn
Nov 02 15:24:22 <jelg> Got the following when installing the Android for Eclipse on Ubuntu: "No repository found at https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/
Nov 02 15:24:23 <jelg>   Error reading update site https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/.
Nov 02 15:24:23 <jelg>   Unconnected sockets not implemented
Nov 02 15:24:23 <jelg> "
Nov 02 15:25:29 <michaelnovakjr__> try just http://
Nov 02 15:25:47 <jelg> okay will do
Nov 02 15:26:57 <jelg> seems to work! thanks michaelnovakjr
Nov 02 15:29:07 <michaelnovakjr__> cool, np
Nov 02 15:29:34 <DaFreeze> hey, i'm listening to the NEW_OUTGOING_CALL broadcast. is there a way to cancel the call?
Nov 02 15:34:06 <michaelnovakjr__> did you try unregisterReceiver?
Nov 02 15:34:12 <DaFreeze> nope
Nov 02 15:34:20 <DaFreeze> ill read about that
Nov 02 15:34:20 <michaelnovakjr__> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Context.html#unregisterReceiver(android.content.BroadcastReceiver)
Nov 02 15:34:23 <DaFreeze> thanks
Nov 02 15:34:28 <michaelnovakjr__> np
Nov 02 15:41:00 <DaFreeze> hmm.. how will this cancel the outgoing call?
Nov 02 15:43:24 <michaelnovakjr__> ah sorry
Nov 02 15:43:27 <michaelnovakjr__> it wont
Nov 02 15:44:57 <michaelnovakjr__> misread it, i dont think you can
Nov 02 15:45:41 <ieatlint> well... now i see why tmobile is so slowly pushing out the OTA update... it's 45mb... makes you wonder why they don't do themselves a favour and (officially) allow updates over usb/sd
Nov 02 15:46:20 <DaFreeze> ah.. k.. thx
Nov 02 15:46:32 <michaelnovakjr__> ieatlint: not over wifi either?
Nov 02 15:47:09 <ieatlint> it may have worked over wifi, i dunno... the update is pushed in the background
Nov 02 15:47:33 <ieatlint> the phone will download it without you having a clue, and then a screen will popup notifying you an update is available and asking if you want to proceed
Nov 02 15:48:40 <andatche> is it possible to use any cut to create a shortcut to a url that should open in the browser?
Nov 02 15:49:28 <cbeust_> andatche: Yes but you can do that without Any Cut
Nov 02 15:49:34 <cbeust_> Just make a bookmark and create a shortcut to it
Nov 02 15:49:45 <andatche> ah right, cool. didn't realise you could do that :)
Nov 02 16:03:52 <andatche> are there any plans for iplayer on android?
Nov 02 16:06:42 <igorgue> umm
Nov 02 16:06:50 <igorgue> how do I make a update check?
Nov 02 16:07:11 <igorgue> I think, I'm not updated... (my G1)
Nov 02 16:07:49 <Dougie187> i think its in your phone settings.
Nov 02 16:07:49 <Dougie187> but i don't have a G1
Nov 02 16:07:55 <Dougie187> there is something that tells you the version in settings i believe
Nov 02 16:09:01 <michaelnovakjr__> yea its in settings
Nov 02 16:09:35 <michaelnovakjr__> there's a lot of g1 commercials on discovery today
Nov 02 16:09:52 <Dougie187> yeah i started to see them a little while ago
Nov 02 16:09:59 <Dougie187> like right after it came out i started seeing them
Nov 02 16:13:20 <Death_Syn> I'm still not updated
Nov 02 16:16:20 <d0nets> me neither
Nov 02 16:16:42 <igorgue> I read this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10080714-94.html
Nov 02 16:16:49 <cbeust> The updates are being rolled out progressively, don't worry, you will be updated
Nov 02 16:17:01 <igorgue> too late
Nov 02 16:17:02 <igorgue> ;)
Nov 02 16:17:18 <igorgue> I tried another "hack" and my phone got formated :D
Nov 02 16:17:25 <igorgue> I have no apps now :(
Nov 02 16:17:37 <igorgue> the cool thing is that everything else is on my google account ;)
Nov 02 16:17:43 <d0nets> what all does the update include
Nov 02 16:17:58 <igorgue> it says security patches...
Nov 02 16:18:23 <igorgue> but I hope it comes with updates, stability updates...
Nov 02 16:18:27 <ieatlint> it includes a lot more than a browser security patch
Nov 02 16:18:41 <igorgue> ieatlint: nice!, cant wait!
Nov 02 16:18:43 <ieatlint> but i don't see any real difference from a user point of view --- except one thing
Nov 02 16:18:53 <igorgue> anyway but I will wait...
Nov 02 16:18:58 <ieatlint> when you connect usb, you get an item in your notifications saying so
Nov 02 16:19:07 <ieatlint> if you click on it, it asks if you want to mount the sd card on the computer
Nov 02 16:19:25 <ieatlint> kinda nice, actually
Nov 02 16:29:17 <roxfan> what directory corresponds to what's visible over usb mass storage (if there is one)?
Nov 02 16:29:38 <ieatlint> on the phone? /sdcard
Nov 02 16:29:59 <roxfan> only sd card is exported? there's no internal storage?
Nov 02 16:30:11 <ieatlint> internal storage is restricted
Nov 02 16:30:23 <roxfan> hm?
Nov 02 16:30:46 <ieatlint> /system /data /cache are each mtd partitions
Nov 02 16:30:49 <roxfan> (i don't have a phone, just an emulator)
Nov 02 16:31:04 <ieatlint> ah, the emulator doesn't have the same permission restrictions
Nov 02 16:31:32 <roxfan> so when you connect the phone, you just see the drive letter for sd card?
Nov 02 16:32:21 <ieatlint> when you connect the phone over usb to a computer, the computer will see a removable storage device -- depending on how the phone is configured by the user, the computer will see the partition on the sd card
Nov 02 16:32:50 <ieatlint> (so in other words, at the user's discretion, yes -- you'll see a drive letter for the sd card, as though you were using a generic usb sd card reader)
Nov 02 16:33:02 <roxfan> i see
Nov 02 16:33:24 <ieatlint> and the phone can't use the sd card when it's mounted on a computer
Nov 02 16:34:27 <roxfan> so ACTION_MEDIA_SHARED etc only cover the sd card?
Nov 02 16:35:12 <ieatlint> yes
Nov 02 16:35:48 <roxfan> thanks
Nov 02 16:39:09 <holydhaliwal> hey guys im having trouble starting the android emulator included in the sdk, i just want to play around with the os really so i was wondering how i get it running...what happens is when i open the emulator application a command prompt window opens up and closes right away, then nothing, any ideas?
Nov 02 16:40:02 <roxfan> try running it from a command prompt window
Nov 02 16:40:14 <roxfan> so you can see the error messages if there are any
Nov 02 16:40:43 <holydhaliwal> how would i do that? open the command prompt and just point to the emulators path?
Nov 02 16:42:03 <roxfan> yea, e.g. "c:\android-sdk-windows-1.0_r1\tools\emulator.exe"
Nov 02 16:42:18 <roxfan> or you can cd to that directory and run emulator.exe from there
Nov 02 16:42:51 <michaelnovakjr__> note, the emulator doesn't give the phone justice
Nov 02 16:43:04 <michaelnovakjr__> its not meant for a demo, but for development
Nov 02 16:44:30 <kosz> hi everybody
Nov 02 16:45:00 <holydhaliwal> yes im fine with that, roxfan i pointed to the file and it gave the message cannot create data directory: C:\Users\Paul\Appdata\Local\Android\Sdk-1.0 Please specify a writable directory with -datadir
Nov 02 16:45:27 <roxfan> weird that it's not writable
Nov 02 16:45:36 <michaelnovakjr__> that is because it doesn't exist
Nov 02 16:45:46 <michaelnovakjr__> you need to create that directory
Nov 02 16:45:50 <roxfan> well, it should be able to create it
Nov 02 16:45:51 <michaelnovakjr__> then run it again
Nov 02 16:46:01 <roxfan> i didn't have to create one myself
Nov 02 16:46:03 <michaelnovakjr__> nope, even on linux it gives the same issue
Nov 02 16:46:12 <michaelnovakjr__> i had that on two of my machines
Nov 02 16:46:27 <holydhaliwal> so i just create a bunch of folders in that form?
Nov 02 16:47:53 <holydhaliwal> oh wow that worked! thanks a bunch guys!
Nov 02 16:49:43 <holydhaliwal> just another question, you said that it runs smoother on the actual g1 rather then the emulator?
Nov 02 16:50:51 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Nov 02 16:52:09 <holydhaliwal> alright cool thanks a lot
Nov 02 16:54:32 <offby1> ooh, lots of folks here
Nov 02 16:55:10 <offby1> So my phone downloaded and installed an update last night, and now it works a bit -worse- than before, in one aspect ... where can I go to get a notion of what changed?
Nov 02 16:55:18 <offby1> i.e., what changes were introduced by that update?
Nov 02 17:19:51 <kosz> I am curious can android also run on Iphones, or for iPhones i'd be stuck to developing with the toolkit they provide and the cocoa framework ?
Nov 02 17:20:06 <cbeust> android doesn't run on iPhones
Nov 02 17:21:13 <roxfan> it might be ported, but it's not an easy task
Nov 02 17:21:25 <kosz> right
Nov 02 17:21:49 <kosz> well thanks, that's a bit sad news for me
Nov 02 17:22:20 <kosz> what devices does android run on ?
Nov 02 17:22:34 <cbeust> Officially as of today, only on the G1
Nov 02 17:22:43 <kosz> i know most of them ran symbian for the past while
Nov 02 17:22:51 <michaelnovakjr__> android on the iPhone?
Nov 02 17:22:58 <michaelnovakjr__> why would anyone do that?
Nov 02 17:22:58 <cbeust> "of them"?  Which ones/
Nov 02 17:23:04 <kosz> ah so not many devices out either ?
Nov 02 17:23:25 <kosz> cbeust : sorry quite the clueless noob at this
Nov 02 17:23:36 <kosz> my last real phone is a nokia e70
Nov 02 17:23:36 <cbeust> kosz: sorry don't understand your question
Nov 02 17:23:45 <cbeust> Yes, Nokias run Symbian
Nov 02 17:23:49 <kosz> i was talking about devices
Nov 02 17:23:59 <kosz> and they'll keep on running symbian ?
Nov 02 17:24:20 <cbeust> Who knows?
Nov 02 17:24:21 <kosz> what phones will be using android ? I remember seeing Samsung as one of the partners
Nov 02 17:24:29 <cbeust> But it's likely since Nokia acquired Symbian
Nov 02 17:24:42 <michaelnovakjr__> Symbian is going open source
Nov 02 17:24:57 <cbeust> michaelnovakjr: Yes, I wonder what prompted that :)
Nov 02 17:25:04 <neekers> symbian is slowwwwww
Nov 02 17:25:06 <michaelnovakjr__> Motorola is hiring a bunch of android folks..... so they seem to be investing a ton in the platform
Nov 02 17:25:08 <kosz> also michaelnovakjr__ why are you saying android on iphone is not recomended ... why ?
Nov 02 17:25:23 <michaelnovakjr__> kosz: the iPhone is a great phone
Nov 02 17:25:29 <kosz> simbian is slow indeed :(
Nov 02 17:25:39 <pawalls> Some of the posts on xda-developers makes me lose faith in humanity.
Nov 02 17:25:43 <pawalls> *make me
Nov 02 17:25:46 <michaelnovakjr__> why would you get an iPhone just to get android?
Nov 02 17:26:14 <kosz> michaelnovakjr__ so iPhone is good enough with it's own OS you are saying ?
Nov 02 17:26:27 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
Nov 02 17:26:32 <cbeust> kosz: Yes, the iPhone is a very good phone too
Nov 02 17:26:43 <kosz> ok makes sens ... mac os is indeed great
Nov 02 17:26:55 <BHSPitLappy> I'd certainly love to play with Android on iPhone hardware (or, in my case, iPod Touch hardware)
Nov 02 17:27:00 <michaelnovakjr__> don't get me wrong... i have a G1 too and its great
Nov 02 17:27:07 <kosz> today i was reading that most of the os on the iphone is mac os ...
Nov 02 17:27:17 <michaelnovakjr__> kosz: not really
Nov 02 17:27:30 <kosz> no ?
Nov 02 17:27:34 <cbeust> It's a very customized version of MacOS
Nov 02 17:27:44 <BHSPitLappy> michaelnovakjr, I don't think people want Android on their iPhones to replace iphoneos, I think it's because we're hackers and it's hackish :P
Nov 02 17:27:47 <michaelnovakjr__> the kernel i'd say is the common ground
Nov 02 17:27:48 <roxfan> it is OSX
Nov 02 17:27:56 <michaelnovakjr__> the cocoa framework is very different
Nov 02 17:27:56 <roxfan> just ported to arm
Nov 02 17:28:16 <michaelnovakjr__> the differences in the framework are visible
Nov 02 17:28:17 <roxfan> well yes, the ui is naturally different
Nov 02 17:28:21 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Nov 02 17:28:26 <michaelnovakjr__> the apps are different
Nov 02 17:28:36 <michaelnovakjr__> the common ground would be the kernel
Nov 02 17:29:00 <kosz> and some apis i'd think
Nov 02 17:29:02 <roxfan> i guess depends on your definition of "OS" where it's different
Nov 02 17:29:06 <michaelnovakjr__> i would say it was modeled like osx, but to say it is, that isn't true
Nov 02 17:29:32 <kosz> what's the processing power like ?
Nov 02 17:29:39 <kosz> would u say P3 like or still ... slow handheld like ?
Nov 02 17:29:46 <michaelnovakjr__> ?
Nov 02 17:30:02 <roxfan> iphone? it's an arm11 ar 400mhz with graphics accelerator
Nov 02 17:30:03 <kosz> well last handheld i had was a dell palm
Nov 02 17:30:06 <michaelnovakjr__> it depends on what you are doing
Nov 02 17:30:08 <roxfan> so quite powerful
Nov 02 17:30:24 <kosz> i see
Nov 02 17:30:32 <kosz> would you be able to run 3d games ?
Nov 02 17:30:33 <geist> yeah, i'd say an arm11 at 400 is about like a P2 266 or so
Nov 02 17:30:37 <michaelnovakjr__> it doesn't like multitasking much though
Nov 02 17:30:45 <kosz> ah thanks geist :)
Nov 02 17:31:11 <geist> kind of depends on what you're doing
Nov 02 17:31:16 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Nov 02 17:31:21 <ieatlint> 3d is overrated... i'm just waiting for the oregon trail to come out for android
Nov 02 17:31:25 <geist> but most arm11s are totally cache starved, which really limits their performance
Nov 02 17:31:39 <roxfan> the cpu is actually underclocked... i guess they did it to reduce head and power usage
Nov 02 17:31:41 <kosz> what's oregon trail ?
Nov 02 17:31:54 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Nov 02 17:32:09 <ieatlint> classic computer game... may have just been a US thing
Nov 02 17:32:09 <geist> well not really, but it's definitely not super fast
Nov 02 17:32:41 <neekers> geist, all are arms built on AVRs?
Nov 02 17:32:45 <michaelnovakjr__> both the g1 and iphone have good battery life
Nov 02 17:32:50 <roxfan> btw dunno what they did but iphone os 2.x feels sluggier than 1.x
Nov 02 17:32:59 <roxfan> neekers: arms are build on arms :)
Nov 02 17:33:04 <roxfan> not related to avr at all
Nov 02 17:33:18 <neekers> roxfan: are you sure about that?
Nov 02 17:33:23 <roxfan> of course
Nov 02 17:33:27 <cbeust> ieatlint: no I played Oregon Trail back in France too, it's a classic
Nov 02 17:33:45 <kosz> never did
Nov 02 17:33:47 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Nov 02 17:33:49 <cbeust> We have hardware acceleration for OpenGL, though, so the door is definitely open for 3D games
Nov 02 17:33:53 <kosz> played diablo thuogh
Nov 02 17:33:55 <cbeust> but yes, there are limits
Nov 02 17:34:01 <ieatlint> i'm serious... oregon trail would be awesome :)
Nov 02 17:34:14 * kosz googles oregon trail
Nov 02 17:34:24 <geist> neekers: no, not at all. has nothing to do with AVR
Nov 02 17:34:34 <geist> ARM is ARM, its it's own instruction set
Nov 02 17:34:43 <geist> been around since the early 80s
Nov 02 17:35:12 <kosz> oh that is some ghetto lemings shit
Nov 02 17:35:15 <geist> it's done by ARM, ltd. they license cores to various vendors
Nov 02 17:35:20 <cbeust> There are a lot of 80-90 games that would run easily on the G1 (we even have Quake running), but the interface will be the limiting factor
Nov 02 17:35:23 <geist> TI, Qualcomm, freescale, samsung, etc
Nov 02 17:35:30 <neekers> ok, so avr is just another risc based processor?
Nov 02 17:35:43 <geist> avr is some other risc thing done by i forget the company
Nov 02 17:35:47 <roxfan> atmel
Nov 02 17:35:53 <ieatlint> kosz, it's nothing like lemmings...
Nov 02 17:35:56 <geist> they recently came out with a 32bit variant, to compete with arm
Nov 02 17:36:32 <neekers> i would like to learn more about coding arm processors
Nov 02 17:36:33 <roxfan> atmel does arm chips too :)
Nov 02 17:36:39 <geist> right
Nov 02 17:36:57 <kosz> ah ok
Nov 02 17:37:05 <kosz> now i found newer screenshots
Nov 02 17:37:10 <kosz> looks like sailor moon :)
Nov 02 17:37:11 <neekers> oh... i see, so they atmel makes arm and avr, but they are different
Nov 02 17:37:27 <geist> right. avr is a tiny 8 bit cpu
Nov 02 17:37:33 <geist> not even in the same class
Nov 02 17:37:34 <kosz> but diablo one like games should be achiavable as well i'd say
Nov 02 17:37:43 <kosz> after all i played diablo one on something like a p 233
Nov 02 17:37:45 <geist> it's extremely simple, and you can easily embed the design in your fpga or so
Nov 02 17:37:46 <roxfan> neekers: #edev or ##microcontrollers might be good channels to idle then
Nov 02 17:37:54 <neekers> avr is more than 8bit, i'm pretty certaqin about that
Nov 02 17:38:02 <geist> no, not avr
Nov 02 17:38:07 <geist> avr32 is probably what you're thinking of
Nov 02 17:38:09 <geist> that's something else
Nov 02 17:38:16 <geist> that's the thing that's pretty arm like
Nov 02 17:38:25 <geist> but it's relatively new, not sure how well used it is
Nov 02 17:38:27 <roxfan> btw arm has a core designed for fpga... cortex m-1
Nov 02 17:38:35 <geist> yep, they do
Nov 02 17:38:45 <geist> the new low end cortex stuff is pretty small
Nov 02 17:38:51 <neekers> thanks roxfan
Nov 02 17:39:03 <geist> not sure how easy it is to license it for your designs, though
Nov 02 17:39:09 <geist> avr you usually got for free essentially
Nov 02 17:39:23 <geist> just another block you can stuff on the side of your fpga to drive the logic
Nov 02 17:39:38 <neekers> i bought an avr butterfly to learn with, it was 20 bucks
Nov 02 17:39:39 <geist> or of course you can get the little 20 pin chip
Nov 02 17:40:23 <neekers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVR_Butterfly
Nov 02 17:40:32 <neekers> it's pretty nice for 20 bucks
Nov 02 17:40:38 <geist> cute
Nov 02 17:51:59 <neekers> .
Nov 02 17:54:25 <roxfan> 
Nov 02 17:57:02 <neekers> did the channel die or did my connection die?
Nov 02 17:57:25 <BHSPitLappy> your connection died
Nov 02 17:57:34 <BHSPitLappy> also your face
Nov 02 17:57:36 <neekers> heh
Nov 02 17:57:58 <BHSPitLappy> in all honesty, nothing happened
Nov 02 18:00:19 <BHSPitLappy> "There are free plans to convert the Butterfly into a portable AVR-ISP device (see Buttload) for programming a whole family of AVR devices."
Nov 02 18:00:25 <BHSPitLappy> ...
Nov 02 18:00:40 <tweakt> "buttload" ?
Nov 02 18:00:45 <BHSPitLappy> No, Wikipedia, I will NOT see buttload.
Nov 02 18:00:50 <tweakt> lol
Nov 02 18:01:37 <neekers> url?
Nov 02 18:01:53 <BHSPitLappy> neekers, YOU posted it
Nov 02 18:02:09 <neekers> oh... :o)
Nov 02 18:04:36 <roxfan> arduino seems to be a standard for avr now
Nov 02 18:04:45 <roxfan> so i'd use that if starting now
Nov 02 18:09:21 <neekers> doesnt arduino have some where c variant langauge?
Nov 02 18:09:28 <neekers> where=wierd
Nov 02 18:13:01 <tweakt> neekers, AVR is programmed in it's own language very similar to C
Nov 02 18:13:24 <tweakt> Arduino is just a higher level language which compiles to AVR machine code
Nov 02 18:33:19 <DarkriftX> wow, androidcommunity has become a bitchfest
Nov 02 18:33:26 <DarkriftX> just massive amount of complaining
Nov 02 18:33:36 <offby1> So I wanted to look at pictures, but my phone says the SD card is busy.  But when I go to Settings/SD Card & Phone Storage, the "Unmount/eject SD card" item is greyed out, and does nothing when I click on it (apart from blinking and making the "click" sound).  Wozzup with that?
Nov 02 18:33:39 <DarkriftX> i wish they would just take it back and stfu so the ones who do like it dont have to hear it
Nov 02 18:34:52 <roxfan> "it"?
Nov 02 18:35:01 <DarkriftX> their g1
Nov 02 18:35:37 <Death_Syn> <3 my G1
Nov 02 18:35:42 <DarkriftX> go look, i cant find any good threads because they are all buried under "my 3g dont work" and "really pissed about this" threads
Nov 02 18:35:47 <neekers> darkriftx: what are they complaining about?
Nov 02 18:35:51 <DarkriftX> everything
Nov 02 18:35:56 <DarkriftX> you name it, theres a complaint about it
Nov 02 18:36:01 <neekers> heh
Nov 02 18:36:07 <neekers> whiners unite.
Nov 02 18:36:11 <BruteSource> well what does that mea?
Nov 02 18:36:14 <BruteSource> mean
Nov 02 18:36:30 <DarkriftX> it means they were stupid enough to buy a beta phone expecting it to be perfect
Nov 02 18:36:47 <benley> offby1: try turning off mass storage mode
Nov 02 18:36:48 <DarkriftX> gee, lets try vista beta3 and throw a fit when it crashes.....
Nov 02 18:37:11 <benley> offby1: it probably thinks it is connected to a computer (or maybe it is!)
Nov 02 18:37:35 <Chicago> Hello, 'make' finished successfully and now I have a system.img/ramdisk.img/userdata.img.  Where are the instructions for building the 2.6.25 bzImage for my mpm7500/ HTC Titan?
Nov 02 18:37:47 <BruteSource> it isnt supposed to be a beta, its a release
Nov 02 18:37:50 <andyross> FWIW: The G1 isn't a beta phone, it's a real product, with pretty significant advertising campaign behind it.  I don't know what the complaints are, but people *do* tend to have the expectation that a high end smart phone will do what they want.
Nov 02 18:38:14 <offby1> benley: it is indeed connected, but disconnecting doesn't help.  And as far as I can tell, the "mass storage mode" switch is now gone, and has been _replaced_ by the menu item I mentioned.  (The phone updated itself last night)
Nov 02 18:38:52 <benley> offby1: hm.  Try rebooting if it's gotten itself stuck - rc29 is supposed to handle this stuff more smoothly than rc19 did
Nov 02 18:38:57 <BruteSource> i would complain as well if i purchased a product and things didnt work
Nov 02 18:39:06 <DarkriftX> well stop trying to buy one then
Nov 02 18:39:07 <offby1> benley: I'm sure rebooting will work, but I was hoping to avoid that :)
Nov 02 18:39:09 <DarkriftX> some stuff doesnt work
Nov 02 18:39:13 <benley> offby1: like, it should prompt you and ask whether or not you want to mount as usb storage when you plug it in
Nov 02 18:39:14 <DarkriftX> and we dont need another person bitching
Nov 02 18:39:20 <benley> offby1: sure.  I haven't run into that problem though :)
Nov 02 18:39:24 <offby1> benley: it does do that prompting properly
Nov 02 18:39:34 <offby1> puts a nice little logo in the notification area and everything.
Nov 02 18:39:40 <benley> cool
Nov 02 18:39:50 <BruteSource> lmao, your opinion ias valuable as msn for a search engine
Nov 02 18:40:06 <DarkriftX> do you come here to argue?
Nov 02 18:40:17 <BruteSource> no i think you do
Nov 02 18:40:19 <DarkriftX> you seem to find a way to argue every time you come
Nov 02 18:40:26 <DarkriftX> nope, only with you it seems
Nov 02 18:40:33 <benley> bah, all smartphone forums are giant bitchfests
Nov 02 18:40:36 <DarkriftX> thats ok, ignore works great
Nov 02 18:40:46 <BruteSource> obviously, since your outnumbered on the issue at hand again
Nov 02 18:40:57 <BruteSource> hehe, good for you
Nov 02 18:42:03 <Chicago> Can somebody give me a hand, please.
Nov 02 18:42:16 <Chicago> The source for Android finished mak'ing while I slept.
Nov 02 18:43:28 <Chicago> I am still a bit unclear on howto find the lastest .config and kernel tree to use in order to create my bzImage.
Nov 02 18:44:08 <benley> Chicago: have you seen this? http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/
Nov 02 18:44:52 <Chicago> benley: At the bottom of that page, I read "diffs against android git on 6 July 08 (branch android-msm-2.6.25 available from here commit 07fe2e3914202167a4d314bf5e81bbd2f5d3062b)"
Nov 02 18:46:44 <Chicago> benley: I also see, the latest version posted there is date stamped today.
Nov 02 18:46:58 <Chicago> However, I would like to use the tools to build my own.
Nov 02 18:47:01 <benley> ah
Nov 02 18:47:05 * benley doesn't know how to do that :)
Nov 02 18:47:33 <BruteSource> seems martin has got power managment working now
Nov 02 18:47:33 <michaelnovakjr__> benley: is that updated?
Nov 02 18:47:39 <benley> michaelnovakjr__: no idea
Nov 02 18:47:51 <benley> I don't have an xv6800, I just started googling :)
Nov 02 18:47:59 <Chicago> What is the 'board=' line supposed to say in out/target/product/generic/android-info.txt?
Nov 02 18:48:23 <michaelnovakjr__> benley: i wrote a few apps for that back in the summer
Nov 02 18:48:42 <michaelnovakjr__> haven't looked at it since 0.9
Nov 02 18:50:04 <morrildl__> All I want for Christmas is for someone to clean up the Wikipedia article on Android
Nov 02 18:50:11 <BruteSource> well android doesnt exactly have symbian shakin in their boots yet
Nov 02 18:51:18 <Chicago> benley: Also, the kernel .config from the page you mentioned -> http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ is from 9/25/2008....  Is there a real repository for these files? Or do they just exist as downloads from a webpage?
Nov 02 18:51:25 <benley> Chicago: dunno
Nov 02 18:51:47 <BruteSource> martins git repo
Nov 02 18:55:25 <Chicago> BruteSource: Is that git repository address posted somewhere on xda-developers.com/
Nov 02 18:55:26 <Chicago> ?
Nov 02 18:55:48 <Sorium> yo
Nov 02 18:55:52 <Chicago> Hello
Nov 02 18:56:59 <Chicago> BruteSource: Nevermind, I see the linuxtogo.org git repository link at the bottom of the vogue page.
Nov 02 18:57:10 <romainguy_> morrildl__: All I want for Christmas is for someone to clean up the Wikipedia article on Android << I want the same thing!
Nov 02 18:57:31 <eldenz> f1?
Nov 02 19:07:07 <Chicago> BruteSource: Am I supposed to have used martins git repo before I ran 'make' in the android project dir?
Nov 02 19:08:59 <benley> Probably.
Nov 02 19:10:02 <Chicago> benley: Ah... Well, I wish I knew that.
Nov 02 19:10:51 <benley> you generally want to patch your source tree before you build it :)
Nov 02 19:11:00 <BruteSource> if you want his latest work, then yes
Nov 02 19:11:52 <Chicago> BruteSource: So, are you saying after the 'repo sync' step, I need to get Martin's repo... and then run make?
Nov 02 19:13:40 <BruteSource> yes
Nov 02 19:15:17 <Chicago> BruteSource: Where are these steps documented? Right now I don't know which subdirectory of my project folder to git martins files into.
Nov 02 19:17:15 <BruteSource> i am sure sure thay are documented
Nov 02 19:18:07 <Chicago> Um, should I use #htc-linux for these questions?
Nov 02 19:19:31 <BruteSource> i don't know?
Nov 02 19:19:55 <michaelnovakjr_> Chicago: maybe startup #android-vogue
Nov 02 19:21:10 <BruteSource> i know there is a huge thread about ot on xda devs
Nov 02 19:21:17 <BruteSource> it
Nov 02 19:22:50 <Chicago> michaelnovakjr_: I fired up a few channels...  We could call it #android-msm7500
Nov 02 19:23:02 <michaelnovakjr_> that too
Nov 02 19:23:18 <Chicago> And then #android-p4000
Nov 02 19:23:39 <morrildl> Chicago: swetland would be the right person to ask
Nov 02 19:23:59 <morrildl> But IMO it's probably better to only fork channels when you need to
Nov 02 19:24:01 <Chicago> But maybe they could be under the #htc-msm7500 hierarchy instead...?
Nov 02 19:24:37 <Chicago> Cause there is already an #htc-linux  channel with about 100 users.
Nov 02 19:24:41 <michaelnovakjr_> well, its not officially supported so i think that warrants a channel
Nov 02 19:27:02 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: just because no one's building a device from it commercially doesn't mean the work is not "officially supported"
Nov 02 19:27:35 <michaelnovakjr_> is it then?
Nov 02 19:27:58 <morrildl> are we going to assume full-time engineers to work on it? probably not
Nov 02 19:28:16 <morrildl> but that doesn't mean the discussion has to flee from #android -- at least not unless it would be helpful
Nov 02 19:28:31 <Chicago> Hmm hmm hmm
Nov 02 19:28:39 <morrildl> I'm just saying don't go create a channel just because you feel like you have to
Nov 02 19:28:44 <morrildl> if you need to, sure :)
Nov 02 19:28:48 <Chicago> Being on FreeNode is the most helpful :)
Nov 02 19:31:10 <Chicago> Other users like me will eventually land here...  The route I used was first browsing xda-developers.com... then found #htc-linux here on FreeNode and then #android.
Nov 02 19:33:18 <AnimaSana> anyone wanting to partner? funds are available...
Nov 02 19:33:19 <BruteSource> i wonder if someone was stranded on a desert island with only irc.. if anyone would believe them to send help
Nov 02 19:33:38 <BruteSource> partner for what?
Nov 02 19:34:05 <AnimaSana> android application development
Nov 02 19:34:28 <sylar> hi all
Nov 02 19:34:30 <AnimaSana> i was thinking games, but other ideas are welcome too
Nov 02 19:35:04 <BruteSource> speaking of that, has anyone tried pterminal yet?
Nov 02 19:36:07 <AnimaSana> what is that? :P
Nov 02 19:36:17 <Chicago> AnimaSana: We could make an interactive fiction game and use gps and sell advertising in the game based on the gps.
Nov 02 19:36:25 <BruteSource> a terminal app for android
Nov 02 19:36:44 <Disconnect> BruteSource: from the description, its more of a command runner than a terminal
Nov 02 19:37:22 <umdk1d3> its more of an emulator right?  i think it could only do "ls" and similar commands
Nov 02 19:37:30 <BruteSource> naw its a full terminal from what i have read
Nov 02 19:37:34 <umdk1d3> it didnt actually "run" commands
Nov 02 19:37:40 * umdk1d3 tries to use cat with pipes
Nov 02 19:37:43 <AnimaSana> hmm chicago, i do not think advertising is the way to go
Nov 02 19:37:50 <Disconnect> BruteSource: ..it says it doesn't run any interactive comands. so...
Nov 02 19:37:50 <AnimaSana> i prefer making users pay
Nov 02 19:38:04 <zhobbs> there is a Term app in the git repo
Nov 02 19:38:05 <geist> yeah, it's pretty cheesy
Nov 02 19:38:06 <BruteSource> you guys are thinking of the emulator that comes with the develop sdk
Nov 02 19:38:16 <Disconnect> umdk1d3: it does run commands, but not through a shell. (so pipes are out) or with any input (like a termianl)
Nov 02 19:38:16 <zhobbs> just rune "make Term" and it'll generate the Term.apk
Nov 02 19:38:19 <BruteSource> not ptermnal,
Nov 02 19:38:25 <Chicago> AnimaSana: Well, I was thinking the game should have its own economy and that users have to grind a few hours here or there to pay for anything in the game...
Nov 02 19:38:34 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: yea that term app is exactly what you need, but idk if just anyone can compile and install it
Nov 02 19:38:39 <BruteSource> pterminal is in android market, created recently
Nov 02 19:38:40 <Disconnect> BruteSource: ..i think i know the difference between the emulator and the phone but thanks for assuming we're idiots anyway.
Nov 02 19:38:52 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: will it install and work after built?
Nov 02 19:38:55 <BruteSource> no your just confused
Nov 02 19:38:58 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: yeah, works fine
Nov 02 19:39:02 <incandenza> BruteSource: I've used it, but I didn't really see anything interesting to do with it
Nov 02 19:39:13 <plusminus_> HI @all
Nov 02 19:39:17 <plusminus_> when picking an Contact, using (Intent iPick = new Intent(Intent.ACTION_PICK);) is there a way to add constraints, i.e. select only ones having an address?
Nov 02 19:39:22 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: want the APK?
Nov 02 19:39:30 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: i have it already ;)
Nov 02 19:39:41 <umdk1d3> have it on desktop using anycut
Nov 02 19:39:51 <BruteSource> your talking about the terminal emulator google made for the developer sdk, not pterminal which is a 3rd party application only created recently
Nov 02 19:40:30 <zhobbs> BruteSource: yeah, I have tried pterminal...been using google's
Nov 02 19:40:32 <Disconnect> BruteSource: no, i'm explicitly not. the one google made works, and can run interactive commands, pipes, etc.
Nov 02 19:40:46 <zhobbs> I haven't*
Nov 02 19:41:06 <BruteSource> p terminal is a fully funtional terminal emulator and can run commands, go read the thread on xda dev lmao
Nov 02 19:41:12 <MikHel> Hello
Nov 02 19:41:30 <Disconnect> here we are (stupid market needs a web interface) "you can not run commands that ask for user input at this time"...
Nov 02 19:41:30 <umdk1d3> BruteSource: umm fully functional?  no
Nov 02 19:41:32 <MikHel> I am having problem with Android on Eclipse...
Nov 02 19:41:59 <BruteSource> im not talking about the same program as you obviously
Nov 02 19:42:14 <Disconnect> term is fully functional, with a few minor bugs. pterminal is, by it's own description, a simple command executor.
Nov 02 19:42:34 <MikHel> The layout editor is not coming up and the log shows that com/android/layoutlib/api/ILayoutLibBridge cannot be found....
Nov 02 19:42:34 <BruteSource> god im sick of you windows users, thinking you even have an inkling of what your talking about in here
Nov 02 19:42:37 <Disconnect> BruteSource: there's only one pterminal
Nov 02 19:43:09 <BruteSource> thats not pterminals description, not on the site or in android market
Nov 02 19:43:11 <umdk1d3> sigh lol @ BruteSource   hes kinda cute
Nov 02 19:43:11 <Disconnect> wahahahaha thats awesome. guess i know who wrote pterminal. unbunch your panties.
Nov 02 19:43:39 <lethalcode> Don't suppose there's a way to include a pre-made sqlite db with the .apk?
Nov 02 19:44:05 <Disconnect> i'm looking at it right now in marketplace. "information: android limitations: <root access, etc, which is true for any term at the moment on non-engineering devices>" next paragraph "you cannot run commands that ask for user input at this time, I will work on this and error control for the next version." (bad punctuation - , vs ; - and all)
Nov 02 19:44:08 <zhobbs> lethalcode: you can include in in your apk's assets and then copy it to your area in data
Nov 02 19:44:19 <BruteSource> anyways, anybody who actually knows something about actual terminal emulation, tried pterminal?
Nov 02 19:44:24 <Disconnect> s/you/You/
Nov 02 19:44:24 <infobot> Disconnect meant: i'm looking at it right now in marketplace. "information: android limitations: <root access, etc, which is true for any term at the moment on non-engineering devices>" next paragraph "You cannot run commands that ask for user input at this time, I will wo...
Nov 02 19:44:45 <MikHel> is there a channel for android code development?
Nov 02 19:45:00 <BruteSource> lol if there is it is not here
Nov 02 19:45:14 <zhobbs> MikHel: sometimes, but also try #android-dev
Nov 02 19:45:24 <BruteSource> theses guys couldnt write a hello world in english let alone a real language
Nov 02 19:45:25 <MikHel> zhobbs: Thanks.
Nov 02 19:45:46 <lethalcode> BruteSource: Can too. "lethalcode, say Hello World"
Nov 02 19:45:50 * lethalcode brainfaults. :-(.
Nov 02 19:46:13 <BruteSource> lol @ brainfault
Nov 02 19:47:35 <Damm> I thought this was android-dev?
Nov 02 19:47:57 <BruteSource> this is android
Nov 02 19:48:28 <BruteSource> home of minly people who don't even understand the device they are using lmao
Nov 02 19:49:08 <umdk1d3>  /ignore +BruteSource
Nov 02 19:49:47 <Disconnect> yah its funny, because his app sucks according to it's own description, nobody else could -possibly- understand the device. hysterical.
Nov 02 19:50:35 <BruteSource> my app?
Nov 02 19:51:23 * Disconnect kind of thought the -point- of a "terminal" was to take user input and hand it to other apps (eg a shell) and prettyprint the output based on a predefined terminal display command spec (such as vt100), but i'm obviously a confused windows user.
Nov 02 19:52:24 <BruteSource> which it can, if you would actually use it
Nov 02 19:54:31 <BruteSource> you wouldn't know what to use a shell for anyways, which is why your happy with your pretty gui apps
Nov 02 19:54:57 <cbeust> BruteSource: didn't you forget to add "M$ sux"?
Nov 02 19:55:03 <Disconnect> hahahaha no i use term because it works, but thanks anyway.
Nov 02 19:55:27 * romainguy_ is happy to be productive with pretty GUI apps
Nov 02 19:55:31 <BruteSource> ya i am sure ya do
Nov 02 19:56:00 <romainguy_> but that must make me a very bad programmer
Nov 02 19:56:24 * Disconnect was one of the people to hack and port sshd to the directivo (s1 and s2). and wrote the kernel module to selectively enable/disable encryption based on the task (playback of encrypted files vs recording clear or playback clear..) but yah i've never seen a shell wtf is that "$" this app is broken
Nov 02 19:56:31 <BruteSource> your not a programmer, not even a bad one
Nov 02 19:56:45 <Disconnect> wow. you're AWESOME.
Nov 02 19:56:48 <umdk1d3> sigh dont feed the trolls
Nov 02 19:56:56 <cbeust> And you're not a very good speller, BruteSource, but either way, cut it out please
Nov 02 19:56:57 <Disconnect> umdk1d3: but he's funny as shit.
Nov 02 19:57:00 <DarkriftX> my sentiments exactly umdk1d3
Nov 02 19:57:12 <BruteSource> shut your mouth
Nov 02 19:58:13 <lethalcode> BruteSource: We apologize for not fitting your BS-centric world view.
Nov 02 19:59:07 <cbeust> Disagreeing is fine, insulting other people on this channel is not
Nov 02 19:59:08 <romainguy_> cbeust: http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/10/31/arspdc-the-new-device-stage-in-windows-7 << I like that
Nov 02 19:59:14 <BruteSource> irc is just not the place for computer illiterate users is all, at least not this sirver. Try dalnet.
Nov 02 19:59:29 <lethalcode> BruteSource: Then why are you here?
Nov 02 19:59:35 <DarkriftX> ive already got him on ignore, but my guess is he hit the bottle again (yeah, old material.. i know)
Nov 02 19:59:55 <DarkriftX> he sat here for 3 hours the other night telling us all how stupid we are for believing google devs would actually sit in an irc channel
Nov 02 20:00:00 <DarkriftX> saying they were all fake
Nov 02 20:00:10 <BruteSource> he doesn't have me o ignore, obviously
Nov 02 20:00:11 <cbeust> Good one
Nov 02 20:00:17 <romainguy_> DarkriftX: hence the name Android
Nov 02 20:00:26 <DarkriftX> lol, exactly
Nov 02 20:00:29 <romainguy_> DarkriftX: cbeust and I are androids built by Google
Nov 02 20:00:41 <DarkriftX> he wasnt rude about it at first, but then it started getting bad
Nov 02 20:00:44 <BruteSource> ya because all the windows devs are in #windows
Nov 02 20:00:59 <DarkriftX> and every since then he gets pissed at someone and goes off
Nov 02 20:01:01 <BruteSource> idiot
Nov 02 20:01:02 <cbeust> BruteSource: Microsoft and Google are two different companies
Nov 02 20:01:17 <BruteSource> so hat, stil mutes your point
Nov 02 20:01:20 <BruteSource> what
Nov 02 20:01:31 <cbeust> Mutes? Or did you mean moot?
Nov 02 20:01:41 <BruteSource> i meant mute
Nov 02 20:01:44 <lethalcode> BruteSource: Let's try that again. "So what, it still moots your point."
Nov 02 20:01:45 <zhobbs> hehe
Nov 02 20:01:46 <BruteSource> go read  book
Nov 02 20:02:05 <cbeust> BruteSource, I hope your code is better than you English
Nov 02 20:02:09 <cbeust> your*
Nov 02 20:02:15 <BruteSource> is that easier to understand?
Nov 02 20:02:25 <DarkriftX> i almost wish i didnt have him on ignore now, this sounds interesting
Nov 02 20:02:45 <BruteSource> he doesn't have me on ignore, lmao.
Nov 02 20:04:41 <BruteSource> we need to rename this channel to #my-daddy-bought-me-a-g1-cause-its-the-latest-thing
Nov 02 20:04:44 <lethalcode> cbeust: You forget, he's already stated he can't code.
Nov 02 20:04:56 <BruteSource> i did?
Nov 02 20:05:09 <lethalcode> cbeust: 1) Nobody who's on #android can code. 2) He's on #android. Ergo, he can't code.
Nov 02 20:05:10 <neekers> did we go through day light savings time change recently??
Nov 02 20:05:19 <BruteSource> yes
Nov 02 20:05:29 <neekers> when did that happen?
Nov 02 20:05:35 <benley> last night
Nov 02 20:05:38 <DarkriftX> neekers, yeah, last night had an interesting bug in here
Nov 02 20:05:38 <lethalcode> neekers: At 2am.
Nov 02 20:05:40 <benley> I just noticed it a few minutes ago :-P
Nov 02 20:05:43 <BruteSource> 2am in your time zone
Nov 02 20:05:45 <neekers> oh.. thanks :o)
Nov 02 20:05:58 <DarkriftX> someone had the home clock showing 12:59 and the screen lock clock showing 01:40
Nov 02 20:06:55 <neekers> i guess i slept an extra hour and didnt even know it
Nov 02 20:07:01 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 20:14:03 <trigatch4> jasonchen: you around?
Nov 02 20:14:07 <morrildl> BruteSource: knock it off.  I'm not in a 3-strikes sort of mood
Nov 02 20:14:20 <trigatch4> oooh dan, whats up... need your help if you have a couple minutes
Nov 02 20:14:27 <morrildl> trigatch4: sure, what's up
Nov 02 20:15:06 <trigatch4> so on AndroidForums.com, members were asking me about "Android Robot" gear...
Nov 02 20:15:12 <trigatch4> like t-shirts and stuff like that
Nov 02 20:15:15 <trigatch4> I wanted to give some away
Nov 02 20:15:25 <trigatch4> but a Google Staffer stopped by on PMed me
Nov 02 20:15:52 <trigatch4> and said that my idea to set up a "Cafe Press Store", using proceeds to fund Forum giveaways... was a bad idea
Nov 02 20:16:18 <Disconnect> evidently only DJTachyon can do that. with his huge piles of semi-identical stuff on 3 different stores :)
Nov 02 20:16:36 <trigatch4> hahah yeah i saw him do that
Nov 02 20:16:38 <Disconnect> fwiw they are being serious about the android fonts - the droid is CC but the fonts aren't.
Nov 02 20:17:05 <trigatch4> but i wanted to have a discussion with someone who could actuall approve/disapprove or give the actual low down on the showdown
Nov 02 20:17:15 <trigatch4> didn't want to do anything out of speculation
Nov 02 20:17:25 <morrildl> trigatch4: well, first things first -- did you check out the "branding guidelines"?
Nov 02 20:17:35 <trigatch4> yeah i saw those
Nov 02 20:17:38 <morrildl> okay
Nov 02 20:17:43 <DarkriftX> i wanted one of those android plush figures :(
Nov 02 20:17:53 <morrildl> so in a nutshell, the green bug droid is creative-commons
Nov 02 20:18:06 <morrildl> 'Android' itself is a registered trademark and we have to protect it
Nov 02 20:18:29 <DarkriftX> or better yet, a 3d little android robot
Nov 02 20:19:01 <trigatch4> so the "bug droid" (i call it robot haha)... what does creative-commons allow?
Nov 02 20:19:16 <morrildl> trigatch4: you can do whatever you want with the bug droid, more or less
Nov 02 20:19:20 <trigatch4> because it says "marketing communications" but i would consider cafe press store going beyond that
Nov 02 20:19:29 <morrildl> you know, we need to change that phrase
Nov 02 20:19:40 <morrildl> you're the second person who has interpreted that to mean more than we intend it to mean
Nov 02 20:19:48 <trigatch4> okay so i'm pretty much free game to use it
Nov 02 20:19:52 <morrildl> the branding guidelines were written for like companies to use
Nov 02 20:19:54 <trigatch4> anything i should be aware of
Nov 02 20:19:57 <trigatch4> that i can't use the robot in?
Nov 02 20:20:00 <morrildl> and they think of all that stuff as "marketing communications" so....
Nov 02 20:20:08 <morrildl> robot is free game
Nov 02 20:20:21 <morrildl> the bug droid is more of our mascot than a part of the "branding"
Nov 02 20:20:27 <DarkriftX> nice
Nov 02 20:20:50 <morrildl> The name Android, and in particular the the curvy font face thing is off limits
Nov 02 20:21:10 <morrildl> but, if you want to print up t-shirts that say "Android rules" with the bug droid or something, that might be possible
Nov 02 20:21:20 <DarkriftX> why doesnt google put out more stuff with that though
Nov 02 20:21:23 <morrildl> if you want to check in on specific ideas, feel free to email me
Nov 02 20:21:29 <morrildl> DarkriftX: good question :)
Nov 02 20:21:43 <DarkriftX> im not wanting to make or sell them, just buy them lol
Nov 02 20:21:45 <trigatch4> yeah i noticed that "android" itself isn't supposed to be used in domains either
Nov 02 20:21:59 <trigatch4> thinking i should probably put in an official submission notifying on that
Nov 02 20:22:00 <morrildl> trigatch4: actually that's not really true
Nov 02 20:22:09 <DarkriftX> *whew*
Nov 02 20:22:10 <morrildl> see also androidcommunity.com etc.
Nov 02 20:22:27 <morrildl> obviously we would object to "officialandroid.com" or something :)
Nov 02 20:22:34 <trigatch4> right
Nov 02 20:22:57 <morrildl> anyway I gotta run for a bit
Nov 02 20:22:58 <trigatch4> okay well looks like that clears everything up
Nov 02 20:23:02 <trigatch4> thanks for your help man
Nov 02 20:23:06 <morrildl> np
Nov 02 20:23:15 <DarkriftX> tell google to make us some more android stuff!
Nov 02 20:23:20 <morrildl> if you want more detailed or perhaps private info, please feel free to email me
Nov 02 20:23:28 <morrildl> DarkriftX: noted, I will look into it :)
Nov 02 20:23:50 <morrildl> I wonder if we could get the proceeds routed to a computer science charity or something, that would rock
Nov 02 20:23:57 <DarkriftX> like a little android figure with a crushed microsoft butteryfly in his hand behind his back and an evil grin
Nov 02 20:24:20 <mocsrox> is there a preferred way to detect orientation change on the android?
Nov 02 20:24:21 <morrildl> DarkriftX: yeah I'm going to go ahead right now and say that's never going to happen ;)
Nov 02 20:24:35 <DarkriftX> of course not
Nov 02 20:24:43 <morrildl> anyway gotta boogie, be back later
Nov 02 20:28:36 <Chicago> How do I patch Android with Martin's mobile-linux/kernel.git tree? I am trying to build the development kernel http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/
Nov 02 20:46:46 <DJTachyon> how do i know if i got the security patch or not?
Nov 02 20:48:10 <DarkriftX> something about using anycut to make a shortcut to device info i think
Nov 02 20:48:25 <romainguy_> no need
Nov 02 20:48:32 <romainguy_> you can look at the build number in settings > about phone
Nov 02 20:48:42 <DJTachyon> thats what i figured
Nov 02 20:48:46 <DJTachyon> what version am i looking for?
Nov 02 20:48:47 <ben_> anyone know if you can set sound volumes for calls, sms, and im separately on the G1?
Nov 02 20:48:51 <DarkriftX> romainguy_, does the android font have a name?
Nov 02 20:48:58 <romainguy_> Droid
Nov 02 20:48:59 <DJTachyon> yes
Nov 02 20:49:01 <romainguy_> well
Nov 02 20:49:01 <DJTachyon> and its trademarked
Nov 02 20:49:03 <DarkriftX> ok
Nov 02 20:49:07 <romainguy_> at least the font used on the phone is called Droid
Nov 02 20:49:10 <romainguy_> and that one is free to use
Nov 02 20:49:13 <DJTachyon> Droid Sans
Nov 02 20:49:17 <romainguy_> but the android logo font, no idea
Nov 02 20:49:17 <DarkriftX> not the one on the phone
Nov 02 20:49:18 <DarkriftX> the one on the logo
Nov 02 20:49:19 <DJTachyon> ohhh right
Nov 02 20:49:20 <DarkriftX> ok
Nov 02 20:49:23 <Disconnect> DJTachyon: 28 iirc. the original version is 18 or 19, new one is high-20s (28, 29?)
Nov 02 20:49:25 <DJTachyon> yeah thats trademarked
Nov 02 20:49:39 <romainguy_> the latest update should be TC4 RC29
Nov 02 20:49:41 <DarkriftX> i know it cannot be used, but someone was asking the name of it
Nov 02 20:49:55 <DJTachyon> yeah im RC19
Nov 02 20:49:57 <Disconnect> DJTachyon: and you can install it from sd (i got tired of waiting)
Nov 02 20:50:23 <DJTachyon> ah
Nov 02 20:50:32 <DJTachyon> well im getting a new phone next week
Nov 02 20:50:33 <trigatch4> Disconnect: T-Mobile said update at your own risk, if you do the update manually then they won't be responsible fro anything that happens to your phone
Nov 02 20:50:34 <DJTachyon> so i dont care much
Nov 02 20:50:41 <trigatch4> DJTachyon: why?
Nov 02 20:50:50 <DJTachyon> accelerometer/compass package is broken
Nov 02 20:51:01 <DJTachyon> =/
Nov 02 20:51:07 <DarkriftX> nice, that means you can test the hell out of it without worry :)
Nov 02 20:51:12 <DJTachyon> lol
Nov 02 20:51:27 <DJTachyon> custom builds, custom apps, using it as a basemall
Nov 02 20:51:29 <DJTachyon> ball*
Nov 02 20:51:38 <DarkriftX> my thoughts exactly
Nov 02 20:51:52 <DarkriftX> "sorry, im not sure why its burnt... must be that defective compass"
Nov 02 20:52:09 <DJTachyon> yeah the compass led me into a volcano
Nov 02 20:52:14 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 20:52:44 <DJTachyon> yeah if i use compass mode, it just looks at the ground
Nov 02 20:52:57 <DJTachyon> and if i try accelerometer games, it either crashes or pacman just heads into a wall
Nov 02 20:53:11 <Disconnect> DJTachyon: try bubble level.
Nov 02 20:53:25 <Disconnect> (its pretty slick, and a lot easier than pushing my mbp against walls all the time)
Nov 02 20:53:34 <DJTachyon> bubble level?
Nov 02 20:53:38 <Disconnect> in the appstore
Nov 02 20:53:41 <Disconnect> 'bubble'
Nov 02 20:53:47 <DJTachyon> looking
Nov 02 20:54:06 <DJTachyon> so i was in nyc last night and reception was wacky
Nov 02 20:54:22 <DJTachyon> 4 Bars of 3G to Nothing for 5 minutes to 4 bars of EDGE and back again
Nov 02 20:54:37 <Disconnect> weird
Nov 02 20:54:56 <DJTachyon> langish was saying he was having problems in nyc too
Nov 02 20:55:39 <DJTachyon> bubble is a good idea
Nov 02 20:55:44 <DJTachyon> oh well this doesnt work well lol
Nov 02 20:56:00 <DJTachyon> it just sticks in one spot
Nov 02 20:56:07 <DJTachyon> a little up and to the left
Nov 02 20:56:14 <DJTachyon> and doesnt move no matter what i do
Nov 02 20:56:15 <Disconnect> might just be crowded, plus tons of reflections and such. you'd think they retested (for the new freqs) but they can't have nearly the testing coverage they got from standard gsm over the years
Nov 02 20:57:22 <Disconnect> hey so how is everyone handling passing db refs around between activities? i was just reopening it and got a reference-leak crash (actually worse, it opened twice on boot rather than creating the activity when i hit the button to switch screens)
Nov 02 21:11:15 <DJTachyon> omg F*CKING EA ..
Nov 02 21:11:27 <DJTachyon> I just bought Red Alert 3 .. and the key doesnt work
Nov 02 21:11:35 <DJTachyon> why do I even bother?
Nov 02 21:11:50 <DJTachyon> another hit to DRM ... my god.
Nov 02 21:11:58 <roxfan> pwned by drm
Nov 02 21:12:05 <DJTachyon> ind33d
Nov 02 21:13:05 <Disconnect> random side note. amazon's support (on my 2nd or third try last week) eventually told me to just repurchase any corrupted/missing downloads and they'd redownload w/o rebilling. seems to have worked. (original answer was "this never happens to anyone, you should call in and wait on hold. call from a different line and be prepared to spend 30 mins or more"etc..)
Nov 02 21:13:23 <DJTachyon> *shakes head*
Nov 02 21:13:50 <DJTachyon> wait a second
Nov 02 21:13:57 <DJTachyon> there is a god damn character missing in this key
Nov 02 21:14:10 <Disconnect> enough cussing, esp OT cussing....
Nov 02 21:14:21 <DJTachyon> does anybody here have RA3?
Nov 02 21:14:26 <Disconnect> you can talk about the damned layout xml tho :)
Nov 02 21:14:30 <DJTachyon> lol
Nov 02 21:29:54 <trigatch4> hey DJTachyon
Nov 02 21:30:02 <trigatch4> where is the largest image of the robot you could find?
Nov 02 21:30:33 <Disconnect> there's no vector robots? :(
Nov 02 21:31:22 <trigatch4> if there are, i don't know where they are
Nov 02 21:31:30 <trigatch4> george jetson must be hiding it somewhere
Nov 02 21:40:08 <trigatch4> anybody?
Nov 02 21:42:19 <Disconnect> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Android-logo.svg
Nov 02 21:43:00 <Disconnect> enjoy :)
Nov 02 21:43:55 <kaner> erm. are the docs available somewhere for offline-use, i am doing wget -r currently
Nov 02 21:44:07 <romainguy_> they're in the SDK
Nov 02 21:44:07 <Disconnect> which docs?
Nov 02 21:44:14 <Disconnect> code docs are part of the sdk yah
Nov 02 21:44:53 <kaner> they are? heh
Nov 02 21:44:56 <kaner> reference as well?
Nov 02 21:45:30 <kaner> they are.
Nov 02 21:57:48 <RyeBrye> Hmm... There don't seem to be any good opensource readers of mobipocket files :(
Nov 02 21:57:55 <RyeBrye> (on any platform)
Nov 02 21:58:36 <RyeBrye> http://www.multicellphone.com/sandisk-128gb-microsdhc-card-to-be-released-within-3-years/ Any chance android will support this?
Nov 02 21:58:52 <RyeBrye> (in the G1)
Nov 02 21:59:08 <offby1> in three years the G1 will be given away in Cracker Jacks boxes.
Nov 02 21:59:11 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 21:59:15 <RyeBrye> Yes, that's true
Nov 02 21:59:16 <DarkriftX> tthats about what i was thinking
Nov 02 21:59:29 <DarkriftX> how about ask "will the g7 support this?"
Nov 02 21:59:31 <michaelnovakjr__> what's the largest sdcard size available for the G1 now?
Nov 02 21:59:37 <DarkriftX> 16gb?
Nov 02 21:59:38 <``vip> hopefully the "G2" will look better
Nov 02 21:59:40 <RyeBrye> I htink 16
Nov 02 21:59:41 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: mobi w/ drm is a closed format. so no, no open source readers...
Nov 02 21:59:44 <michaelnovakjr__> nice
Nov 02 21:59:59 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll have to pick up a 16GB one then :)
Nov 02 22:00:02 <RyeBrye> Disconnect - mobi without DRM is what I'm looking for
Nov 02 22:00:03 <DarkriftX> heh
Nov 02 22:00:08 <Disconnect> and yah, supposedly the beauty of sdhc is once you support it you are golden out to the limits of size.
Nov 02 22:00:38 <RyeBrye> That's cool
Nov 02 22:00:48 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: fbreader has been ported all over, does non-drm mobi iirc.
Nov 02 22:01:03 <RyeBrye> fbreader works on android? Cool. I'll look at that
Nov 02 22:01:03 <Disconnect> (er, limits of sdhc rather. which is prolly something like 512g but i don't recall off the top of my head)
Nov 02 22:01:23 <RyeBrye> A 512G FAT-32 formatted SD card, wont that be a site to see
Nov 02 22:01:58 <Disconnect> according to wikipedia "SDHC: 1 GB to 64 GB [1] (theoretical max for SDHC is 2 TB.)"
Nov 02 22:02:26 <RyeBrye> I want a 2 TB SDHC card... now
Nov 02 22:02:29 <DarkriftX> nice, a 2TB postage stamp :)
Nov 02 22:02:32 <RyeBrye> Oh wait... it wouldn't do much good
Nov 02 22:02:55 <RyeBrye> I want... a 2 TB SDHC card and anrdoid to store apps on the SDHC card.... now...
Nov 02 22:03:33 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: don't you want a 2tb micro-sdhc instead? so that it'd work in the phone (potentially)?
Nov 02 22:03:41 <RyeBrye> Oh, yes
Nov 02 22:03:42 <Disconnect> being able to plug it in is a good first step :)
Nov 02 22:03:43 <RyeBrye> That too :)
Nov 02 22:03:57 <RyeBrye> Well... I could run wires out to the SDHC if I had to :)
Nov 02 22:04:10 <Disconnect> and still close the door? its got a mag sensor :(
Nov 02 22:04:45 <DarkriftX> the sensor can be tricked :P
Nov 02 22:05:02 <Disconnect> ok but i'm not making any progress fixing my stupid db problem. i can't open it twice cuz that makes too much sense. and i can't close it cuz the listview requires a working cursor. hmm.
Nov 02 22:05:25 <romainguy_> Disconnect: use a ContentProvider?
Nov 02 22:06:34 <Disconnect> anyone else have wacky problems with the music app btw? it acts like a crazy cd player stuck on 'intro' .. skips forward randomly and totally loses track of where it was (eg if you hit ff/rw you can walk - eg - 1 2 [3] 4 5 .. up to 4, back to 3, 2.. even on shuffle. but when it skips it totally resets the history.)
Nov 02 22:07:10 <michaelnovakjr__> Disconnect: why not make your own listview adapter?
Nov 02 22:07:17 <michaelnovakjr__> extend it i mean
Nov 02 22:08:12 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr_: the stock one works fine for me. all i need to do is open a dialog to take a new entry and dump it into the db. (i didn't expect that to be hard :( ..)
Nov 02 22:09:39 <michaelnovakjr__> you can pastebin code if you need help
Nov 02 22:09:52 <Disconnect> someone refresh me so i don't have to dig out my java book. how do i flag a class such that it only gets instantiated once and each future reference uses the same one? that'd prolly solve it. (yes i know, its got a specific name but i can't recall. and while java isn't my first.. or third.. programming language i'm at heart a procedural guy :) ..)
Nov 02 22:12:35 <Ramblurr> Disconnect: singleton behahavior
Nov 02 22:13:55 <Disconnect> cool thats perfect. thanks :)
Nov 02 22:14:11 <RyeBrye> Disconnect - you don't really 'flag the class' - you just have to remove a public constructor from the class and create a static getInstance() method that returns the object - with getInstance responsible for creating it if it doesn't already exist or returning the created one if it does
Nov 02 22:14:13 <Disconnect> prolly won't work (my luck has been that way this weekend) but i'll try it anyway :)
Nov 02 22:14:33 <RyeBrye> although if you are wanting it to be thread safe you do have to be a little bit more careful about how you go about things
Nov 02 22:14:40 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: yah i found http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-04-2003/jw-0425-designpatterns.html which is perfect. :)
Nov 02 22:14:46 <andyross> Or have it not be an object at all and just make a class with a bunch of static methods.  That often works better, and is simpler.
Nov 02 22:15:14 <andyross> The dance involved with making a private constructor and a factory method just to have a bunch of static stuff seems silly to me.
Nov 02 22:17:14 <michaelnovakjr__> when does the onCreateOptionsMenu function get called on an activity... it was working and now no longer does.... i added a debug line in the method and its not printing either
Nov 02 22:18:09 <elad> is it possible to modify phone settings via an app? like if i mage an app that had a toggle button that could toggle between 3g and 2g?
Nov 02 22:18:48 <RyeBrye> I think so - toggler does just that for lots of other settings
Nov 02 22:18:53 <Disconnect> elad: isn't "togglesettings" or "toggle" or something like that already in the market?
Nov 02 22:18:56 <Disconnect> yah toggler thats it
Nov 02 22:19:05 <elad> bah ;/
Nov 02 22:19:33 <RyeBrye> it toggles wifi / gps / silent mode / root access / scren never times out ... etc
Nov 02 22:19:36 <Disconnect> and fyi it was nice to see locale light up with some new functionality the other day. :)
Nov 02 22:19:45 <RyeBrye> What functionality was that?
Nov 02 22:20:16 <Disconnect> istr it can change ringtones, backgrounds etc now. something like 5-6 more knobs.
Nov 02 22:20:23 <RyeBrye> oh
Nov 02 22:20:29 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I saw that
Nov 02 22:24:57 <RyeBrye> I gave into the fact that this device battery is not so great and I bought a mini USB car charger yesterday
Nov 02 22:25:11 <RyeBrye> so pretty much I will just use the battery to temporarily shuttle it between being tethered to a power connection
Nov 02 22:26:57 <DarkriftX> thats how all my devices work :)
Nov 02 22:28:26 <michaelnovakjr__> i just went two days on the battery :)
Nov 02 22:28:28 <RyeBrye> Does the G1 use the same model battery as any other phones, or is it unique to it?
Nov 02 22:28:33 <RyeBrye> michaelnovakjr - you lie
Nov 02 22:28:36 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 02 22:29:07 <michaelnovakjr__> RyeBrye: nope :)
Nov 02 22:29:13 <offby1> RyeBrye: ooh!  car charger.  Sounds like a good idea.  Got a link?
Nov 02 22:29:25 <RyeBrye> I picked one up at wal-mart for $9
Nov 02 22:29:55 <RyeBrye> It says it's for RAZRs or Blackberry Pearls - or a few other devices, but it's basically just a mini-usb plug
Nov 02 22:29:58 <BruteSource> walmart.com
Nov 02 22:30:02 <RyeBrye> I haven't tested it yet, but I'm pretty sure it will work
Nov 02 22:30:35 <BruteSource> probably wont since almost all devices need a different voltage and amperage
Nov 02 22:31:12 <RyeBrye> BruteSource - no, it probably will, since it's using mini USB and it will just take whatever it's given and charge on it
Nov 02 22:31:12 <Disconnect> ..right. because miniusb is just a random collection of voltages. its not solid 5v at 500-1000 mwatts or anything.
Nov 02 22:31:45 <RyeBrye> It is a conspiracy that devices from 3 different manufacturers just happen to be listed on the box as the ones that it offically supports
Nov 02 22:31:58 <BruteSource> no, thats not how electronics work, thats why i cant use my razr charger on my excalibur, or my psp charger
Nov 02 22:32:00 <Disconnect> (fyi i am using a blackberry charger on mine no prob, tmob sold it to me with the belt case. and its been charged off a bt headset miniusb charger, as well as an AC-usb adapter + cable that came from my ebook reader.)
Nov 02 22:32:29 <morrildl> DJTachyon:  you want RC29 or later
Nov 02 22:33:07 <Disconnect> bb devices are crazy in that they require talkback before they go into charge mode (without that some will trickle-charge, some won't do anything) but the charger doesn't care what the device is on the other end otherwise.
Nov 02 22:33:51 <BruteSource> its tge device that cares what voltage it gets, needs to match whats on the battery
Nov 02 22:34:14 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it it just said RAZR I wouldn't have gotten the charger - but since it listed both BB curve, BB pearl, and Razr VR, SLVR... etc. - I figured it was truly basically a mini-usb charger and not some funky RAZR only thing
Nov 02 22:34:19 <Disconnect> you realize that every single usb port on every computer that has one is 5v, and will not supply any other voltage no matter what, right?
Nov 02 22:34:22 <RyeBrye> Well, it charges fine on my USB port
Nov 02 22:35:00 <BruteSource> ya because your computer can manage the output voltage and give it what it wants
Nov 02 22:35:03 <Disconnect> (and you need a daemon - or driver for windows, and istr it ships w/ osx - to get blackberries to charge off a pc because of that talkback)
Nov 02 22:35:10 <BruteSource> an ac adapter cant
Nov 02 22:35:16 <Disconnect> no.. no it doesn't. if you get more than 5v off a usb port its because its BROKEN
Nov 02 22:35:41 <BruteSource> no your wrong, the driver tels it what voltaage to use
Nov 02 22:35:48 <BruteSource> tells
Nov 02 22:35:51 <RyeBrye> No, I'm positive you are wrong
Nov 02 22:35:55 <Disconnect> http://www.hardwarebook.info/Universal_Serial_Bus_(USB)
Nov 02 22:36:03 <BruteSource> well you are a fool
Nov 02 22:36:05 <Disconnect> 4.75 to 5.25 is in-spec. and its not controllable.
Nov 02 22:36:13 <elad> anyone know of a good mouse for a laptop
Nov 02 22:36:20 <RyeBrye> And that's interesting about the driver being needed for windows - I plugged in my BB into my mac USB all the time to charge it without any drivers
Nov 02 22:36:31 <BruteSource> drivers include power managment interupts to control output voltage
Nov 02 22:36:33 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: yah osx ships it i think. part of isync.
Nov 02 22:36:44 <RyeBrye> cool
Nov 02 22:36:48 <Disconnect> BruteSource: ..thats not control output voltage. thats turn off the port and/or put the device into power saving mode
Nov 02 22:36:49 <BruteSource> straight from wiki
Nov 02 22:36:59 * Disconnect waits for a link
Nov 02 22:37:02 <BruteSource> your incorrect
Nov 02 22:37:03 <morrildl> BruteSource: that doesn't even make any sense
Nov 02 22:37:24 <morrildl> do you even know what an interrupt is?
Nov 02 22:37:24 <Disconnect> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/748155.html
Nov 02 22:37:56 <DarkriftX> lol, here we go again
Nov 02 22:38:05 <Disconnect> nah cuz i'm eating
Nov 02 22:39:04 <BruteSource> This kid get schooled so much, im suprised he even comes on here anymore.
Nov 02 22:39:13 * rwhitby gets out the popcorn
Nov 02 22:39:25 <Disconnect> although its funny watching him sit on his WM phone badmouthing windows users (I don't think there even are any here, except him..)
Nov 02 22:39:30 * offby1 passes the salt
Nov 02 22:39:31 <BruteSource> I think i will just ignore him this time
Nov 02 22:39:32 <morrildl> BruteSource: as far as I'm concerned you're a troll
Nov 02 22:39:37 <morrildl> I don't really have time to deal with trolls
Nov 02 22:39:45 <morrildl> knock it off or you'll be banned
Nov 02 22:39:49 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 02 22:40:03 * DarkriftX steals some popcorn
Nov 02 22:40:08 <elad> mirrildl: i think that is strike2 :)
Nov 02 22:40:13 * DarkriftX adds LOTS of butter and salt
Nov 02 22:40:14 <michaelnovakjr__> stike
Nov 02 22:40:16 <michaelnovakjr__> 3
Nov 02 22:40:25 <morrildl> elad: yeah and I already said I'm not in a 3-strikes sort of mood :)
Nov 02 22:40:25 <BruteSource> lmao im so scared of an uneducated person that is trolling themself calling me a troll.
Nov 02 22:40:25 <DarkriftX> strike what?
Nov 02 22:40:39 <BruteSource> he thinks he is an op
Nov 02 22:40:42 <BruteSource> lmao
Nov 02 22:40:52 <languish> o.O
Nov 02 22:40:56 <languish> here we go again
Nov 02 22:40:59 <DarkriftX> :S
Nov 02 22:41:04 <michaelnovakjr__> just kick em
Nov 02 22:41:08 * rwhitby checks BruteSource's blood alcohol level ...
Nov 02 22:41:09 * elad steals a sip from Dark's dr. pepper
Nov 02 22:41:10 <DarkriftX> shit
Nov 02 22:41:13 * elad :o
Nov 02 22:41:14 <DarkriftX> how do you turn off xchat ignore
Nov 02 22:41:18 <BruteSource> it is okay i ignored him already
Nov 02 22:41:23 <umdk1d3> Disconnect:  /ignore -nick
Nov 02 22:41:30 <umdk1d3> maybe, i think
Nov 02 22:41:43 <Disconnect> haha how do you look at someone who -already has ops- active in the channel and say "he's not an op"
Nov 02 22:41:44 <DarkriftX> damnit
Nov 02 22:41:46 <umdk1d3> =D
Nov 02 22:41:48 <DarkriftX> i missed the good shit
Nov 02 22:41:52 <delinka> you can't  /ignore kicks  :P
Nov 02 22:42:04 <DarkriftX> i know, but i missed him talking shit back, and i KNOW he was
Nov 02 22:42:12 <DarkriftX> he told swetland off for like 3 hours the other night
Nov 02 22:42:12 <languish> this is brutesource's nightly thing
Nov 02 22:42:24 <DarkriftX> then he came in the next day saying he was sorry because he was drunk
Nov 02 22:42:27 <morrildl> DarkriftX: I highly doubt that ;)
Nov 02 22:42:36 <DarkriftX> ask him
Nov 02 22:42:49 <morrildl> DarkriftX: No I'm sure he TALKED to swetland for 3 hours
Nov 02 22:42:53 <languish> he picks one thing to argue about, goes on about it for awhile, then apologizes and "admits he was wrong" when he gets tired of playing
Nov 02 22:42:57 <morrildl> but I highly doubt anyone other than him thinks he told him off ;)
Nov 02 22:43:03 <umdk1d3> now you just hope that he doesnt have some sort of botnet to try getting revenge with
Nov 02 22:43:04 <pawalls> morrildl, I'm not sure a nick ban is very effective ;-)
Nov 02 22:43:08 * morrildl is currently figuring out whether it's safe to ban that IP
Nov 02 22:43:25 <DarkriftX> he kept saying swetland was fake and should stop pretending to be related to google
Nov 02 22:43:34 <Disconnect> its tmob edge :(
Nov 02 22:43:45 <morrildl> yeah probably not
Nov 02 22:43:59 <Disconnect> file a complaint with his isp :)
Nov 02 22:44:00 <rwhitby> morrildl: yeah, BruteSource was no match for swetland the other night.
Nov 02 22:44:12 <languish> i really wish tmo would assign static ip's. it'd make life so much easier
Nov 02 22:44:14 <DarkriftX> it was very entertaining to say the least
Nov 02 22:44:37 <rwhitby> DarkriftX: best laugh I'd had all week
Nov 02 22:44:43 <DarkriftX> i know lol
Nov 02 22:44:47 <gambler> rwhitby, you need to get out mroe
Nov 02 22:45:07 <DarkriftX>  /mode #android +b *!*BruteSou*@*
Nov 02 22:45:14 * rwhitby needs a laugh this morning, after spending the weekend on a cub scout camp with 2000 kids.
Nov 02 22:45:17 <DarkriftX> he never changes his ident
Nov 02 22:45:31 <DarkriftX> ouch, that sounds like a pain
Nov 02 22:45:39 <DarkriftX> i hope they were at least 12yrs old
Nov 02 22:45:45 <rwhitby> DarkriftX: 6 to 10
Nov 02 22:45:47 <DarkriftX> younger then that and id shoot myself
Nov 02 22:45:59 <DarkriftX> the older ones would require less babying
Nov 02 22:46:14 <Disconnect> DarkriftX: 12-16 is prolly brutesource's age tho
Nov 02 22:46:15 <rwhitby> nah, I ruled my troop of 42 with an iron fist :-)
Nov 02 22:46:20 <DarkriftX> LOL
Nov 02 22:47:18 <rwhitby> Disconnect: yeah, I think all the kids on the weekend were more mature than BruteSource
Nov 02 22:47:47 <morrildl> If we keep talking about BruteSource, the terrorists win ;)
Nov 02 22:48:45 <rwhitby> maybe we can just shorten it to BS - quite a fitting contraction I think ...
Nov 02 22:49:08 <morrildl> DarkriftX: thanks, that ban pattern looks good
Nov 02 22:49:10 <Disconnect> if we don't DOS him off the net, he'll just go annoy someone else.
Nov 02 22:49:23 <Disconnect> so really, in this case, a basic DOS is for the greater good.
Nov 02 22:49:39 <languish> Disconnect, you'd be dossing t-mobile. :/
Nov 02 22:49:45 <DarkriftX> hey morrildl how did you do that? you just think you are an op
Nov 02 22:49:46 <Disconnect> won't someone -please- think of the -children- he might be bothering?
Nov 02 22:49:57 <Disconnect> languish: just his ip. i doubt tmob has only enough bw for 1 user at a time :)
Nov 02 22:50:00 * morrildl cannot advocate a DoS.
Nov 02 22:50:11 <Disconnect> morrildl: ..but you can watch one? :)
Nov 02 22:50:18 <morrildl> DarkriftX: well, if you really set your mind to it, you can do anything you want ;)
Nov 02 22:50:20 <DarkriftX> yes you can, denial of android service, wheres that killswitch at?
Nov 02 22:51:09 <Disconnect> he's on windows mobile
Nov 02 22:51:20 <rwhitby> string.compare(username, "BruteSource") && exit
Nov 02 22:51:22 <DarkriftX> he put android on his wm phone
Nov 02 22:51:33 <Sorium> you guys post on any android forums/
Nov 02 22:51:43 <DarkriftX> post what?
Nov 02 22:51:46 <Disconnect> DarkriftX: ...you really believe that? given that he was using a wm irc client...
Nov 02 22:51:51 <languish> Sorium, sure.. to what purpose are you asking?
Nov 02 22:51:54 <DarkriftX> not sure Disconnect
Nov 02 22:52:25 * Disconnect would post but he can't get his account activated (and the forum admins are awol or at least ignoring my reqs)
Nov 02 22:52:38 <morrildl> Disconnect: ?
Nov 02 22:52:41 <morrildl> which forum?
Nov 02 22:52:46 <Sorium> Android community forums, just wonderin what kinds of forums if anyone post on them. unless u just chill in this chat
Nov 02 22:52:56 <Disconnect> androidcommunity.com
Nov 02 22:53:03 <morrildl> Disconnect: ah
Nov 02 22:53:07 * Disconnect sent a bunch of emails, pms, etc. no response.
Nov 02 22:53:12 <morrildl> never mind then, not my problem :)
Nov 02 22:53:13 <Disconnect> never got the activation email and there is no 'resend' button
Nov 02 22:53:21 <languish> Sorium, I post in a few, including androidcommunity.com's forums, and the forums.t-mobile .com forums
Nov 02 22:53:25 <DarkriftX> Disconnect, which forums?
Nov 02 22:53:33 <DarkriftX> oh lol
Nov 02 22:53:35 <DarkriftX> already been asked
Nov 02 22:53:39 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Nov 02 22:53:55 <DarkriftX> androidcommunity.com, android-dls.com, xda-developers and i think thats about it
Nov 02 22:54:36 <languish> i know plusminus hangs out here, he runs the anddev forums.. i forget if the androdcommunity admin hangs here too
Nov 02 22:54:40 <Sorium> awesome
Nov 02 22:54:45 <Sorium> i just wnat to hang where the developers hang
Nov 02 22:54:50 <languish> and DarkriftX runs the android-dls.com forums
Nov 02 22:54:56 <Sorium> this shit is the future
Nov 02 22:55:02 * DarkriftX doesnt develop anything
Nov 02 22:55:15 <Sorium> yea DarkriftX is the man, he showed me his forums last night
Nov 02 22:56:06 <Sorium> so far, there's about 0 tutorials out there except the one provided by google
Nov 02 22:56:17 <languish> Sorium, there are a number of them
Nov 02 22:56:33 <Sorium> show me 1
Nov 02 22:56:45 <morrildl> "android-dis"?
Nov 02 22:56:46 <Sorium> i've seen some here or there, but nothing totally comprehensive
Nov 02 22:56:47 <languish> start here http://www.anddev.org/index.php?c=2
Nov 02 22:56:50 <morrildl> what is that, "why I hate Android"?
Nov 02 22:56:55 <morrildl> "Android one-liners"?
Nov 02 22:57:11 <languish> morrildl, dls
Nov 02 22:57:15 <morrildl> ohhhhh
Nov 02 22:57:17 <Sorium> what about the iPhone/
Nov 02 22:57:20 <morrildl> stupid fonts
Nov 02 22:57:23 <languish> lol
Nov 02 22:57:26 <Sorium> i'm betting it all on Android guys
Nov 02 22:57:46 <DarkriftX> lol morrildl
Nov 02 22:57:49 <DarkriftX> i like that
Nov 02 22:58:03 <DarkriftX> i should register android-dis.com and tell all those asses on androidcommunity to go there and bitch
Nov 02 22:58:20 <DarkriftX> i stopped reading that forum because of all the complaint threads
Nov 02 22:58:31 <languish> oh, then you should /ignore me
Nov 02 22:58:33 <languish> :P
Nov 02 22:58:41 <DarkriftX> you at least try to be constructive about it
Nov 02 22:58:45 * Disconnect doesn't complain, he files bugs
Nov 02 22:59:03 <Disconnect> but fwiw the current software load is full of fail
Nov 02 22:59:23 <languish> heh
Nov 02 22:59:46 <Disconnect> i'm really afraid of what'll happen when it goes properly mass-market via walmart. could (might.. :/ ..) destroy its commercial viability in one swell foop.
Nov 02 23:00:00 <Sorium> XDA-developers is OK
Nov 02 23:00:14 <DarkriftX> nah, most walmart buyers wouldnt know enough to tell a bug from a feature
Nov 02 23:00:16 <Sorium> but the android dev community is really small it looks like
Nov 02 23:00:22 <Sorium> thats true
Nov 02 23:00:25 <Disconnect> cuz if you give this thing to people for christmas they're gonna freak and punch you in the face
Nov 02 23:00:32 <michaelnovakjr__> why
Nov 02 23:00:32 <DarkriftX> oh, the keyboard doesnt work, must be a feature to protect it from scratches!
Nov 02 23:00:48 <michaelnovakjr__> i think the phone has been excellent so far
Nov 02 23:00:59 <Damm> kinda scary knowing that walmart is selling em
Nov 02 23:01:03 <Sorium> i cant believe XDA Developers is such a big forum, what the hell are these people posting about....
Nov 02 23:01:15 <DarkriftX> Sorium, its been there for years
Nov 02 23:01:15 <michaelnovakjr__> what's wrong with walmart selling them?
Nov 02 23:01:23 <DarkriftX> its basically a forum about hacking htc devices
Nov 02 23:01:38 <Damm> DarkriftX, technically it started hacking the XDA.
Nov 02 23:01:41 <Sorium> yeah, looks like it
Nov 02 23:01:45 <Damm> and kinda went on from there
Nov 02 23:01:50 <DarkriftX> started, but didnt stay there
Nov 02 23:01:54 <Sorium> HTC seems to make the most advanced phones, is that true?
Nov 02 23:02:01 <Damm> they used to have ROMS for virtually every single build of WM5
Nov 02 23:02:02 <DarkriftX> i would say so
Nov 02 23:02:02 <Damm> and more
Nov 02 23:02:03 <Sorium> i hadn't heard about HTC till about 6 months ago
Nov 02 23:02:15 <Damm> Sorium, 8125? 8525? SDA? MDA?
Nov 02 23:02:24 <Damm> HTC made the Palm Treo 600 and 650
Nov 02 23:02:26 <DarkriftX> i had the wizard
Nov 02 23:02:31 <BHSPitLappy> Sorium, that's because their phones have names like T-Mobile G1
Nov 02 23:02:31 <Damm> HTC made your Motorola RAZR
Nov 02 23:02:41 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr__: lets see, from the top. email (imap) doesn't work. wifi is intermittent at best. browser sometimes keeps your pages, sometimes refreshes (losing state) and sometimes comes up blank. music player interface is junk, even assuming the problems i had are mp3-related and not bugs. and thats all from -today- without looking at my list of bugs.
Nov 02 23:02:42 <BHSPitLappy> they make phones to be rebranded
Nov 02 23:02:59 <Damm> HTC has the ability to fab the whole process
Nov 02 23:03:02 <Sorium> HTC made Motorola RAZR?
Nov 02 23:03:03 <Damm> which is why company's go to them
Nov 02 23:03:06 <Sorium> thats what i use now, i don't have a G1
Nov 02 23:03:07 <Damm> Sorium, yes.
Nov 02 23:03:17 <BHSPitLappy> my phone, the HTC StarTrek, is sold under the names Cingular 3125, Qtek 8500, iMate Smartflip, and a few others
Nov 02 23:03:22 <Damm> Motorola doesn't do as much fabwork as they used to.
Nov 02 23:03:31 <Sorium> o shit
Nov 02 23:03:41 <Damm> Sony Ericsson outsources their fabwork
Nov 02 23:03:42 <Damm> also
Nov 02 23:03:55 <Sorium> so is Android a waste to develop on?
Nov 02 23:04:00 <Sorium> are you guys coding apps for it right now?
Nov 02 23:04:01 <Damm> that's why Apple bought that one company (i forget their name) for the fab ability
Nov 02 23:04:10 <Sorium> Pixar?
Nov 02 23:04:13 <michaelnovakjr__> Sorium: i am developing for it
Nov 02 23:04:21 <Sorium> what are you working on right now/
Nov 02 23:04:22 <romainguy_> Sorium: no it's not, Disconnect is just a very unhappy person on this channel in general :))
Nov 02 23:04:31 <morrildl> Sorium: there's a separate channel for app development that we set up since this one has more open-source-related discussion
Nov 02 23:04:38 <morrildl> Sorium: #android-dev
Nov 02 23:04:43 <Adamant> Damm: PA Semi was fabless IIRC
Nov 02 23:04:52 <DarkriftX> Disconnect just hangs out in here with brutesource too much and the negativity rubs off.
Nov 02 23:04:54 <languish> Sorium, there's a very large number of android developers. most of them are not in this channel
Nov 02 23:04:57 <Damm> Adamant, no apple was fabless, PA Semi had the ability to fab.
Nov 02 23:05:03 <Disconnect> romainguy_: i think it -could- be great. but i think the way it is right now if you give it to mom (or gf or wife) they are gonna hate it.
Nov 02 23:05:06 <Adamant> they bought them for the design talent
Nov 02 23:05:08 <Damm> Adamant, between apple and PA Semi... it made Apple able to fab their own chips
Nov 02 23:05:08 <Disconnect> oh and lets not forget the camera.
Nov 02 23:05:15 <Disconnect> as much as i'd like to..
Nov 02 23:05:21 <Damm> apple has always designed their chips
Nov 02 23:05:24 <Damm> but never fabricated them
Nov 02 23:05:28 <romainguy_> Disconnect: well I gave one to my girlfriend, she really likes it
Nov 02 23:05:37 <Disconnect> romainguy_: is it running retail software?
Nov 02 23:05:43 <romainguy_> yes
Nov 02 23:05:43 <Adamant> Damm: do you mean ability to design chips or having an actual fab?
Nov 02 23:05:44 <morrildl> Disconnect: my wife has one and loves it
Nov 02 23:05:51 <Damm> Adamant, actual fab.
Nov 02 23:05:52 <romainguy_> (you don't want to be running our mainline :))
Nov 02 23:06:01 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Nov 02 23:06:04 <Damm> Adamant, as you notice the chips in the iphone 3g are majority apple branded.
Nov 02 23:06:11 <Adamant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi
Nov 02 23:06:12 <Damm> same with the new ipod
Nov 02 23:06:16 <Adamant> says it was fabless
Nov 02 23:06:42 <Disconnect> and how often do they buy phones at walmart? (or from tmob directly, either in the "popular-phone" genre or in the blackberry line?)
Nov 02 23:06:49 <Damm> there was a time I trusted what wikipedia said.
Nov 02 23:07:07 <Damm> but there is a disconnect with wikipedia, they try to stay neutral to the point where they would rather have disinformation or no information
Nov 02 23:07:28 <Adamant> Damm: ok dude, if you want to believe they have fabs that's good, unless you have insider info I'm sticking with Wiki
Nov 02 23:07:54 <Damm> Adamant, I do, but that's beside the point.
Nov 02 23:08:54 <Adamant> well
Nov 02 23:09:00 <Adamant> their old website on Google
Nov 02 23:09:11 <Adamant> says from their own mouth, they are fabless
Nov 02 23:10:00 <Damm> Adamant, yeah and I can't find any articles saying they are fab...
Nov 02 23:10:13 <Damm> ohwell, i'll gladly bow out and give wikipedia a bone.
Nov 02 23:10:23 <Adamant> cool, we all have thinkos
Nov 02 23:10:49 <Damm> PA Semi was doing some hardcore chips
Nov 02 23:10:56 <Adamant> they were
Nov 02 23:10:57 <Damm> the TI Omap was very popular with HTC
Nov 02 23:11:21 <Damm> I was never a fan of the Samsung ARM
Nov 02 23:11:39 <Damm> the Intel X-Scale was yummy, but power hungry in it's earlier versions
Nov 02 23:11:47 * Damm hasn't kept up on the ARM chips in awhile
Nov 02 23:12:11 <DarkriftX> im dissapointed, all of the hacking and cracking seems to have stopped on that OTA
Nov 02 23:13:13 <morrildl> DarkriftX: ?
Nov 02 23:13:44 <Damm> DarkriftX, I was a bit disappointed in the OTA... better signal, the email app still blows goats, and there really isn't much more there to be considered worthy.
Nov 02 23:14:06 <DarkriftX> there was an effort to try to modify the OTA and reflash it to a device
Nov 02 23:14:08 <Disconnect> is there any good reason to extend SQLiteOpenHelper?
Nov 02 23:14:09 <Damm> i mean my phone has the OBEX Profile according to my Bluetooth profiler on OS X... yet doesn't work.
Nov 02 23:14:14 <jsherman> i'm guessing adb/jdwp won't let you do things that are low level, right?
Nov 02 23:14:15 <DarkriftX> but the signatures stopped that
Nov 02 23:14:18 <DarkriftX> and everyone just gave up
Nov 02 23:14:18 <Damm> the OTA isn't a full image?
Nov 02 23:14:21 <jsherman> like print current registers
Nov 02 23:14:48 <Damm> reject serialno=HT7*|HT80*|HT81*
Nov 02 23:14:49 <Damm> handy
Nov 02 23:14:50 <Damm> lol
Nov 02 23:14:52 <jsherman> or print arguments to a function
Nov 02 23:15:41 <morrildl> Damm: well, it was a security update :)
Nov 02 23:15:58 <Damm> well i'm a HT84...
Nov 02 23:16:05 <Damm> so I imagine those are engineering serial numbers
Nov 02 23:16:19 <Damm> i'm sure DannyB could illuminate on that.
Nov 02 23:16:43 <DarkriftX> the hope was to be able to flash custom images, or change permissions in the current update to give more access to the device
Nov 02 23:17:04 <Damm> oh i'm sure there will be that ability DarkriftX.
Nov 02 23:17:05 <Damm> give it time
Nov 02 23:17:22 <Damm> first you will want a full rom dump
Nov 02 23:17:29 <DarkriftX> if only soemone at google could sneak us the info needed to crack those sha1-digest signatures
Nov 02 23:17:38 <Damm> sha1 is easy to crack
Nov 02 23:17:45 <DarkriftX> well jump on it!
Nov 02 23:17:46 <romainguy_> DarkriftX: that would be cheating
Nov 02 23:17:49 <Damm> takes what 45minutes on a Pentium 4?
Nov 02 23:17:50 <Disconnect> DarkriftX: that'd be a great way to never work in the embedded industry again..
Nov 02 23:17:51 <DarkriftX> i know romainguy_
Nov 02 23:18:02 <Disconnect> possibly even get jailtime depending on how much tmob wants to push damages
Nov 02 23:18:07 <Damm> and 4.5minutes on the core 2's
Nov 02 23:18:09 <romainguy_> besides, I don't think we have the keys at Google
Nov 02 23:18:12 <jsherman> uh
Nov 02 23:18:13 <romainguy_> it's T-Mobile's G1
Nov 02 23:18:15 <romainguy_> not Google's
Nov 02 23:18:15 <Damm> Disconnect, nah it would be google.
Nov 02 23:18:29 <Damm> because it would burn the whole Android project up
Nov 02 23:18:37 <Damm> and make it non viable
Nov 02 23:18:44 <DarkriftX> romainguy_, they seem to be signed by htc, so im guessing they would be the ones needed to leak them
Nov 02 23:18:45 <Disconnect> Damm: google isn't gonna stand behind an employee that did that. tmob owns the device (and keys) so tmob would be the ones with damages and harm, etc
Nov 02 23:18:46 <jsherman> i'm no lawyer, but I think DMCA explicitly allows reverse engineering for the purpose of unlocking phones
Nov 02 23:19:12 <romainguy_> jsherman: he's talking about someone from Google leaking private information
Nov 02 23:19:12 <Damm> jsherman, that's still up for debate, it does... but if i recall the last version of the DMCA that passed, removed that clause.
Nov 02 23:19:13 <Sorium> wow
Nov 02 23:19:20 <jsherman> ah
Nov 02 23:19:24 <romainguy_> that's quite different from doing reverse engineering :)
Nov 02 23:19:26 <Sorium> @jsherman: you have statute in the law on that ?? (that's interesting)
Nov 02 23:19:35 <morrildl> We do not have the signing key, no
Nov 02 23:19:45 <DarkriftX> i was joking guys, i didnt expect the info to be handed to me
Nov 02 23:19:58 <Damm> it's SHA1, it should be no sweat to crack the key.
Nov 02 23:20:05 <Damm> then google will change the key
Nov 02 23:20:12 <DarkriftX> well chime in if you would
Nov 02 23:20:18 <DarkriftX> there are threads on it at xda-devs
Nov 02 23:20:26 <morrildl> Damm: no, because it's not our key :)
Nov 02 23:20:32 <jsherman> maybe you could convince one of the lenstra brothers to do it
Nov 02 23:20:35 <DarkriftX> once the signatures were found everyone stopped everything
Nov 02 23:20:42 <Sorium> can someone telle me what hte point is to cracking the key or unlocking?
Nov 02 23:20:48 <languish> yay! New Bug!!!!
Nov 02 23:20:49 <DarkriftX> easy Sorium
Nov 02 23:20:51 <Sorium> i haven't unlocked any phone i have .... is there some feature im misssing ?
Nov 02 23:20:52 <languish> whooo hoo
Nov 02 23:21:11 <Damm> DarkriftX, unless there's a thread of why they stopped... there's just a pause
Nov 02 23:21:22 <DarkriftX> we could change permissions on any files in the update, add our own, delete stuff (lots of ppl want to delete all the built in media for some reason) and repack the the update and flash it
Nov 02 23:21:37 <Sorium> ah
Nov 02 23:21:42 <Sorium> flash as on -- put Flash on it?
Nov 02 23:21:44 <DarkriftX> right now, ANY edit to the update causes it to fail in flashing it
Nov 02 23:21:44 <DarkriftX> yes
Nov 02 23:21:45 <languish> my wife just called, then hung up, so I got a missed call notification.. but the phone didn't stop ringing and bussing, even after I check the notification and hit the end key.. it was like the energizer bunny if it were a an alert
Nov 02 23:21:47 <DarkriftX> no
Nov 02 23:21:52 <DarkriftX> flash as in apply the update
Nov 02 23:21:54 <Sorium> guys
Nov 02 23:21:57 <languish> it just kept going and going..
Nov 02 23:21:58 <Damm> DarkriftX, it's a signed zip
Nov 02 23:21:58 <gambler> hmmm I wonder why here is not a GNU version of distributed.net to crack these vendor lock in keys
Nov 02 23:22:05 <Sorium> what are some things i could do to hack my RAZR ??
Nov 02 23:22:06 <Damm> just like a signed jar.
Nov 02 23:22:12 <Sorium> and make it super powerful
Nov 02 23:22:20 <Sorium> i dont have internet access on it
Nov 02 23:22:37 <DarkriftX> wrong place to ask Sorium
Nov 02 23:22:38 <Adamant> gambler: because any vendor that isn't stupid uses one distributed.net can't touch in a realistic timeframe
Nov 02 23:22:56 <languish> Sorium, have you ever used the nick BruteSource?
Nov 02 23:23:00 <Adamant> also the SHA1 breaks are for collisons, not invertibility
Nov 02 23:23:11 <DarkriftX> lol, thats not him
Nov 02 23:23:16 <Adamant> SHA1 and even MD5 are still quite strong against inversions currently
Nov 02 23:23:28 <Sorium> no
Nov 02 23:23:31 <Disconnect> if you can collide you might be able to pad out the image tho
Nov 02 23:23:41 <jsherman> ?
Nov 02 23:23:49 <jsherman> how would a collision help you
Nov 02 23:23:50 <Sorium> guys
Nov 02 23:23:51 <gambler> Adamant, touche ... and I dont think inversions are even possible with hash algs
Nov 02 23:23:54 <Sorium> have u seen Howard forums/
Nov 02 23:24:01 <Adamant> gambler: they are with really bad ones
Nov 02 23:24:04 <``vip> H
Nov 02 23:24:07 <Adamant> they're the hardest break to do
Nov 02 23:24:18 <Adamant> it's usually much easier to find collisions
Nov 02 23:24:42 <Adamant> which is usually an existance proof the hash is insecure and should be discontinued
Nov 02 23:25:52 <Disconnect> ok so i've been going through tons of hoops trying not to populate an arraylist of potentially hundreds of entries. but perhaps i should just do the full list for now and by the time i get hundreds of entries (or anyone else does) i'll fix it :)
Nov 02 23:26:11 <DarkriftX> hey, whatever works
Nov 02 23:27:15 <Disconnect> yah :( but i was under the impression sqlite could handle multiple opens .. since it gets mad at me... ohwell.
Nov 02 23:28:18 <Damm> DarkriftX, what more then likely will happen eventually is someone will find a way to duplicate the key and let a 3rd party sign it.
Nov 02 23:28:35 <Damm> Disconnect, sqlite isn't exactly a 'high speed' sql database/server/client/whatever.
Nov 02 23:28:46 <Damm> sqlite3 is /ALOT/ better then sqlite2
Nov 02 23:29:00 <Damm> i'm a bit disturbed about how apple abuses sqlite
Nov 02 23:29:17 <Disconnect> yah but since it allows for readonly opens (that return rw objects if its unlocked and ro objects if its locked) that screamed "multi-access" to me
Nov 02 23:29:23 <Adamant> if someone is serious about hacking Android, bugs in the Linux layer are probably the best way to do it
Nov 02 23:29:25 <romainguy_> Damm: yeah, they use it everywhere now :)
Nov 02 23:29:41 <Disconnect> Adamant: yah i'm looking into some things in that arena.
Nov 02 23:30:00 <phyburn> what would be better for updating a clock handler or timertask
Nov 02 23:30:10 <romainguy_> a handler
Nov 02 23:30:28 <Disconnect> and of course dalvik is new, might be able to find an overflow somewhere with hostile bytecode
Nov 02 23:31:17 <romainguy_> you'd still be confined in one process
Nov 02 23:31:21 <romainguy_> there's one vm per app
Nov 02 23:31:34 <Damm> i'll just wait for wiget ability to happen
Nov 02 23:31:45 <Damm> it'll hit by xmas prolly and be a 'present'
Nov 02 23:31:48 * Damm twitches
Nov 02 23:32:05 <romainguy_> Damm: if by "xmas" you means "xmas 2009," sure :)
Nov 02 23:32:46 <jsherman> i guess maybe you could try setting up a SAT instance for the inversion, run it through a survey propagation SAT solver, and see if you get lucky
Nov 02 23:32:53 <Disconnect> widgets would be perfect given how connected its supposed to be
Nov 02 23:32:59 <jsherman> it seems to work for the statistical physicists
Nov 02 23:33:11 <Damm> romainguy_, i said xmas.. didn't say which xmas
Nov 02 23:33:18 <romainguy_> good :)
Nov 02 23:33:24 <Adamant> jsherman: SAT solvers are already factored in by top crypto people in designs
Nov 02 23:33:32 <romainguy_> because widgets are much more difficult to implement than it sounds :)
Nov 02 23:33:46 <Damm> the only thing I find painful is reading xda-developers...
Nov 02 23:33:48 <Damm> makes my head hurt
Nov 02 23:33:51 <Adamant> anyway, I think anyone hoping for a Xbox like crypto break is in for a surprise
Nov 02 23:34:05 <waldo_> anyone have a suggestion why   scrollarea.myscrollarea(0,top.getBottom()); is scrolling down to everything but the last appended text?
Nov 02 23:34:07 <Adamant> MS wouldn't make that mistake anymore and didn't on Xbox360
Nov 02 23:34:18 <waldo_> sorry that should be
Nov 02 23:34:20 <jsherman> what was the xbox break?
Nov 02 23:34:21 <waldo_>   scrollarea.scrollTo(0,top.getBottom());
Nov 02 23:34:36 <romainguy_> waldo_: probably an ordering issue
Nov 02 23:34:43 <jsherman> ah ok
Nov 02 23:34:43 <romainguy_> waldo_: try to post your call to scrollTo
Nov 02 23:34:45 <waldo_> top.getBottom() is the textview inside the scrollview
Nov 02 23:34:53 <jsherman> I don't know anything about applied crypto, just theory
Nov 02 23:34:53 <romainguy_> also calling top.getBottom() will scroll too much
Nov 02 23:35:04 <Adamant> and I'm pretty sure Google's security team took a look at Android before it got released. Google has several crypto people on staff
Nov 02 23:35:15 <waldo_> romainguy_: what's the right way to scroll to the bottom of a scrollview with a textview inside it?
Nov 02 23:35:20 <Adamant> so there will be no RC4'ing or TEA'ing
Nov 02 23:35:24 <Adamant> I expect
Nov 02 23:36:13 <waldo_> I am trying to append text to the inner textview and then scroll down a la a terminal.  But it appends and then scrolls down to the line BEFORE the line I just added.
Nov 02 23:36:16 <jsherman> i thought survey propagation was relatively new, much newer than SHA at least
Nov 02 23:36:36 <Disconnect> Adamant: tivo did that for everything before the s3 .. but they forgot one critical piece - so long as the bootloader was in-system flashable it could be broken (even when the sw to flash was missing). their eventual fix was to put more effort into a simpler, more stable validating bootloader that had no reflashing hardware.
Nov 02 23:36:36 <Adamant> jsherman: it's all algebraic right?
Nov 02 23:36:49 <jsherman> ?
Nov 02 23:37:11 <andyross> It's not about the algorithm.  You can write a perfectly good crypto protocol with RC4 or XTEA (TEA itself had a bug, but wasn't broken AFAIK).  Crypto breaks come from protocol bugs -- secure encryption algorithms are a dime a dozen.
Nov 02 23:37:13 <Adamant> I thought survey propagation was something about one of the new algebraic attacks in vogue
Nov 02 23:37:15 <Disconnect> (and then their chain was stable - firmware validates kernel+initrd, initrd validates main system, main system validates or blanks scratch/cache areas)
Nov 02 23:37:35 <waldo_> romainguy_: the problem isn't too much scrolling it's not enough
Nov 02 23:37:38 <romainguy_> wasabi: like I said, post the scrollTo
Nov 02 23:37:54 <Adamant> andyross: I agree but RC4 and TEA are contradictated for new use for a reason. too easy to screw up implementation.
Nov 02 23:38:05 <jsherman> Adamant, it's a SAT solving algorithm
Nov 02 23:38:44 <Adamant> jsherman: I doubt it would break SHA but I could be wrong. whoever could do it could write a pretty awesome crypto paper
Nov 02 23:38:54 <jsherman> er
Nov 02 23:38:55 <romainguy_> wasabi: look at View.post(Runnable)
Nov 02 23:39:00 <jsherman> not in general
Nov 02 23:39:14 <Adamant> oh, you mean (very) probablistically
Nov 02 23:39:15 <waldo_> romainguy_: I'll lok
Nov 02 23:39:16 <waldo_> look
Nov 02 23:39:18 <waldo_> thx
Nov 02 23:39:27 <jsherman> you only need a single instance
Nov 02 23:39:46 <phyburn> how would you get a handler to run over and over (about every second) a timer?
Nov 02 23:39:47 <romainguy_> waldo_: basically the problem is that the layout with your next text hasn't happened yet, so the textview has still its current/old size
Nov 02 23:39:51 <jsherman> but yeah it probably won't work, i was half-serious
Nov 02 23:40:02 <romainguy_> waldo_: by posting you will basically wait for the layout before scrolling
Nov 02 23:40:18 <romainguy_> philsw__: you send a delayedMessage and when you receive it you post it again
Nov 02 23:40:30 <Adamant> jsherman: gonna read up on it so I talk out of my butt less
Nov 02 23:40:51 <waldo_> romainguy_: okay let me see how it works.. i'll give it a shot...  i thought something like that (timing) might be the issue..
Nov 02 23:40:56 <waldo_> let me see how to post one sec.
Nov 02 23:41:02 <romainguy_> sure
Nov 02 23:41:17 <waldo_> gotta figure out what a "runnable" is :)
Nov 02 23:41:53 <Disconnect> ok i've confused myself. i've got a listview thats populating successfully. thats great. except i can't find the flipping code thats doing it :)
Nov 02 23:42:16 * Disconnect outsmarted himself somewhere
Nov 02 23:42:35 <romainguy_> waldo_: it's just an interface that contains a single run() method
Nov 02 23:42:50 <waldo_> so do I just say scrollarea.post(null); ?
Nov 02 23:42:53 <romainguy_> for instance: myView.post(new Runnable() { public void run() { scrollView.scrollTo(...); } });
Nov 02 23:42:54 <waldo_> after appending?
Nov 02 23:43:24 <jsherman> Adamant, good luck, here's the paper: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/109933746/abstract -- I personally don't quite understand it fully
Nov 02 23:43:25 <waldo_> let me try that.
Nov 02 23:45:18 <waldo_> wow romain guy.. worked!  That's a fair amount of code just to wait for the screen to update, but hey it worked great!  Thx.
Nov 02 23:45:39 <Disconnect> oh damnit. there it is. that 'test function' that throws data into the db isn't. oops. :) time to rename it.
Nov 02 23:46:34 <waldo_> actually I take it back.. not so hard or long.. just had to be told how to do it ;)
Nov 02 23:48:13 <romainguy_> waldo_: using a Runnable is a very common idiom in Java :)
Nov 02 23:50:10 <waldo_> sorry I'm just learning java so bear with me ;)
Nov 02 23:50:29 <andyross> Indeed, because the language lacks the notion of an indirected function reference and has to fake it with OOP. :)
Nov 02 23:50:35 <waldo_> romainguy_: I appreciate the assist
Nov 02 23:51:33 <phyburn> can anyone recomend an android book to help you get used to android?
Nov 02 23:52:21 <waldo_> phyburn: right now the best thing is to peruse through the online documentation (google "android code")
Nov 02 23:52:27 <waldo_> at least as far as I know
Nov 02 23:52:34 <waldo_> there's a book on amazon but it's gotten poor reviews
Nov 02 23:52:44 <yakischloba> ruh roh
Nov 02 23:52:59 <yakischloba> android.process.acore has stopped unexpectedly :/
Nov 02 23:55:42 <gambler> phyburn, Oreilly has a book on their rough cuts service. I'd advise against buying it. Its very incomplete.
Nov 02 23:55:45 <gambler> Pretty cheeky imo to sell a book that has maybe 1 chapter done.
Nov 02 23:55:56 <phyburn> yeah I just saw that
Nov 02 23:56:03 <yakischloba> when do I get a fuckin OTA update :/
Nov 02 23:57:35 <gambler> I felt bad for a man who didn't have an OTA update, until I met a man who had no phone.
Nov 02 23:57:44 <michaelnovakjr__> easy with the f bomb
Nov 02 23:58:05 <romainguy_> yakischloba: be patient, it will come
Nov 02 23:58:29 <yakischloba> ;)
Nov 02 23:59:17 <languish> yakischloba, my wife got the update thismorning, I'm still waiting for it
Nov 02 23:59:30 <donomo> my GPS tracker was doing fine until an hour ago when all the lat/long reports are 47/-130, a couple thousand miles into the pacific ocean at 10,000 meters up
Nov 02 23:59:41 <donomo> this is on a G1, not in the emulator.
Nov 02 23:59:45 <donomo> any ideas?
Nov 03 00:00:07 <gambler> donomo, maybe your at sea and delirious?
Nov 03 00:00:08 <languish> donomo, with all apps?
Nov 03 00:00:11 <DarkriftX> you were drugged and placed in a flying lab above the ocean that was made to look like your house?
Nov 03 00:00:17 <offby1> donomo: descend rapidly but calmly
Nov 03 00:00:23 <donomo> gambler: well im delirious, thats for sure.
Nov 03 00:00:24 <offby1> head for Japan
Nov 03 00:00:26 <DarkriftX> lol offby1
Nov 03 00:00:39 <donomo> languish: i havent tried gmaps yet. i wanted to observe the weirdness
Nov 03 00:00:52 <languish> donomo, try a different gps app
Nov 03 00:00:57 <donomo> i rebooted the G1 and started my app, im still on the way to hawaii.
Nov 03 00:01:01 <donomo> languish: yeah i know :)
Nov 03 00:02:41 <DarkriftX> w00t
Nov 03 00:02:55 <DarkriftX> my 3000th (unique) visitor is registering :)
Nov 03 00:03:12 <donomo> started gmaps. it too says im over the ocean and moving fast.
Nov 03 00:03:39 <donomo> id say somehow a goog engineer's test kml file was in the image and being played out.
Nov 03 00:03:52 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 03 00:06:14 <donomo> one of the fixes has an accuracy value of 70,000 meters. :)
Nov 03 00:09:29 <DarkriftX> whoa
Nov 03 00:09:42 <DarkriftX> have you tried walking around outside for a few mins?
Nov 03 00:09:52 <donomo> yeah ive been walking around
Nov 03 00:10:23 <donomo> anyone got the RC29 update?
Nov 03 00:10:38 <Disconnect> yep
Nov 03 00:10:51 <Disconnect> most everyone who wants it, you can install via sd
Nov 03 00:11:28 <donomo> i see the story on androidguys.com. i havent got it from tmobile yet.
Nov 03 00:13:31 <phyburn> what method should I use in handler to run a clock over and over? I need a text clock to be displayed and it has to be updated every second
Nov 03 00:15:04 <romainguy_> I told you
Nov 03 00:15:11 <romainguy_> send a delayed message
Nov 03 00:15:17 <romainguy_> so Handler.sendMessageDelayed
Nov 03 00:15:42 <waldo_> woohoo!  My number guesser program is now complete!!  (well, that was fun.)
Nov 03 00:15:50 <phyburn> ah okay thanks romainguy_
Nov 03 00:18:51 <languish> congrats waldo!
Nov 03 00:19:40 <waldo_> yup my first little game :)
Nov 03 00:20:32 <elad> im adding a new string under strings.xml, but whenever I call R.string. the new one isnt listed
Nov 03 00:20:42 <elad> any ideas?
Nov 03 00:21:28 <donomo> elad: in eclipse? try refresh.
Nov 03 00:22:18 <phyburn> romainguy_, idk if I can do a sendMessageDelayed because I need to do a lot of calculations to get the time
Nov 03 00:22:43 <elad> donomo: didn't work
Nov 03 00:22:51 <romainguy_> well it has to update every second right?
Nov 03 00:22:57 <phyburn> yeah
Nov 03 00:22:59 <romainguy_> so send a message delayed by 1 second
Nov 03 00:23:14 <phyburn> but I have a huge block of code that has to be exectued everytime to get the time
Nov 03 00:23:23 <romainguy_> ok so?
Nov 03 00:23:44 <andyross> If only there were some way to call a block of code using a symbolic name, so that you didn't have to cut and paste all of it...
Nov 03 00:25:04 <elad> donomo: I'm on step9, http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial-ex1.html
Nov 03 00:25:19 <elad> maybe they're missing info?
Nov 03 00:25:34 <donomo> elad: a syntax error in strongs.xml perhaps
Nov 03 00:25:55 <elad> nope all fine
Nov 03 00:31:56 <elad> I've followed the tutorial exactly, pretty odd
Nov 03 00:34:25 <donomo> you're at R.string and you expect control-space to show the name of the new string right?
Nov 03 00:35:11 <elad> yes sir
Nov 03 00:35:32 <donomo> elad: what happens if you type out the name manually (gasp!) and save it? an error?
Nov 03 00:35:40 <elad> yes
Nov 03 00:35:43 <tweakt> 11-02 19:35:25.247: WARN/AudioTrack(32): obtainBuffer timed out (is the CPU pegged?) user=00000100, server=00000000
Nov 03 00:35:53 <donomo> elad: whats the error
Nov 03 00:35:54 <tweakt> What's the the issue here?
Nov 03 00:36:30 <tweakt> Some major latencies in triggering sound effects, not sure what the problem is
Nov 03 00:36:39 <elad> basically undefined,  gives me an option to create a field or create constant
Nov 03 00:36:53 <elad> it cannot be resolved*
Nov 03 00:37:14 <donomo> elad: can you paste the strings.xml contents into pastie.org?
Nov 03 00:37:27 <elad> yup one sec on laptop
Nov 03 00:39:02 <phyburn> romainguy_, agg sorry really new, how would I load my clock values into the message so the handler could display the message?
Nov 03 00:39:07 <elad`dev> http://pastie.org/306128
Nov 03 00:39:59 <donomo> elad: yeah looks pretty ordinary. :)
Nov 03 00:40:15 <elad`dev> yea it's strange I'm inside my onCreateMethod
Nov 03 00:42:01 <donomo> elad: there is a 'fix project properties' menu item that magically fixed an .aidl file problem for me earlier with eclipse
Nov 03 00:42:31 <elad> hmmm
Nov 03 00:42:44 <spikebike> denali is loving riding around the perimeter of slide hill park
Nov 03 00:43:30 <elad> LOL
Nov 03 00:43:36 <elad> donomo... I'm horrible
Nov 03 00:43:49 <elad> I was calling R.string
Nov 03 00:43:50 <donomo> elad: what was it
Nov 03 00:43:55 <DannyB> Damm: the serial numbers are engineering serial numbers
Nov 03 00:44:04 <elad> R.strings*
Nov 03 00:44:12 <DannyB> Damm: you can tell the hardware rev by the serial number
Nov 03 00:44:22 <donomo> elad: i was going to check that myself but the tutorial also shows R.string. ha
Nov 03 00:44:22 <DannyB> Damm: the prototypes have the serial numbers etched into them in various places
Nov 03 00:44:26 <elad> actually
Nov 03 00:44:33 <elad> yea, that didnt work either
Nov 03 00:44:44 <Damm> DannyB, thought so.
Nov 03 00:45:08 * Damm is playing with the sdk.
Nov 03 00:46:14 <ivantis> Attention: I am now starting a service of logging my favorite IRC channels on FreeNode. This is one of the channels. You can read the logs at http://irclogs.space-lab.us/ . If you would not like this channel logged, please ask me nicely and I will remove it.
Nov 03 00:47:24 <Damm> ivantis, usually it's safe to ask the opers that before you do it.
Nov 03 00:47:26 <donomo> now my online wisdom will be presered for future generations to study. thank you ivantis.
Nov 03 00:47:53 <ivantis> jasonchen, morrildl, SanMehat, hear that?
Nov 03 00:47:55 <elad> donomo: i see no_notes just fine in R.string
Nov 03 00:48:28 <donomo> elad: yeah it sounds like an eclipse/staleness issue
Nov 03 00:48:35 <donomo> elad: restart eclipse perhaps
Nov 03 00:49:15 <tweakt> I get this repeatedly when trying to play sound effects: WARN/AudioTrack(33): obtainBuffer timed out (is the CPU pegged?)
Nov 03 00:49:22 <tweakt> no other apps are running
Nov 03 00:49:30 <donomo> ivantis: may i suggest a four digit year? http://android.irclogs.space-lab.us/Nov-01-08.txt 01-08 is so confusing.
Nov 03 00:49:55 <elad> donomo: nope, maybe it's a sign, I'm not meant to be?
Nov 03 00:49:59 <elad> :*(
Nov 03 00:50:25 <donomo> elad: you might be right. do you have any other hobbies? :)
Nov 03 00:50:29 <ivantis> i have to change it?
Nov 03 00:50:34 <ivantis> that would take time and effort
Nov 03 00:51:16 <elad> yes ivantis
Nov 03 00:51:43 <ivantis> elad: what?
Nov 03 00:51:55 <BHSPitLappy> donomo, I'd agree, if not for the spelled out month name
Nov 03 00:52:04 <BHSPitLappy> Nov-01 - 08 isn't ambiguous in that order
Nov 03 00:53:59 <umdk1d3> umm
Nov 03 00:54:44 <umdk1d3> ivantis: /me doesnt like public channel logging  :/
Nov 03 00:54:55 <Disconnect> am i mis-thinking all this goopy OO stuff by expecting (or at least hoping) the sdk would have a basic date/time button that pops up the picker and then updates its value?
Nov 03 00:54:57 <umdk1d3> i dont have any say in it, so its just imho
Nov 03 00:55:11 <ivantis> its up to the ops
Nov 03 00:55:29 <umdk1d3> but usually freenode disallows public logs unless its approved before started
Nov 03 00:55:43 <umdk1d3> and it looks like youve been doing it for days now  :/
Nov 03 00:55:49 <donomo> Disconnect: you mean like DatePicker? http://code.google.com/android/reference/view-gallery.html
Nov 03 00:55:53 <Disconnect> umdk1d3: my big problem with the logs is that i always only find myself with problems, but never answers :)
Nov 03 00:56:15 <donomo> i expect everything i do on the intertubes to be 'recorded'
Nov 03 00:56:59 <umdk1d3> same here, but i /dont/ like it being dumped to google
Nov 03 00:57:04 <Disconnect> donomo: i was looking for a wrapper widget that handled the popup window for me cuz i'm lazy :)
Nov 03 00:57:06 <umdk1d3> for full-text indexing, etc
Nov 03 00:57:55 <umdk1d3> "get permission from the channel owners **before** you start"  <-- http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
Nov 03 00:58:13 <Disconnect> umdk1d3: if it exists it gets dumped to google. besides, thats about the only part of the phone that works as advertised - dumping all your personal data to google :)
Nov 03 00:58:27 <donomo> Disconnect: lol
Nov 03 00:59:26 <morrildl> ivantis: please disable channel logging for now
Nov 03 00:59:58 <morrildl> mostly because there are a lot of people who have been here under the belief that there is no logging, so we'll want to solicit some opinion
Nov 03 01:00:31 <ivantis> okay
Nov 03 01:00:39 <phyburn> how do you assign a string to a Message?
Nov 03 01:01:04 * Disconnect logs locally, but only ever publishes in aggregate (and even that doesn't happen often, been too lazy to do it in a year or 2 :) ..)
Nov 03 01:01:39 <umdk1d3> the biggest reason im against raw irc log dumps is that freenode doesnt have hostmasking
Nov 03 01:01:53 <Disconnect> umdk1d3: sure it does if you donate
Nov 03 01:02:26 <umdk1d3> im not vain enough for a vhost  ;)
Nov 03 01:02:46 <Disconnect> for that matter, ipv6 and wacky reverse dns entries :)
Nov 03 01:05:14 <umdk1d3> lol i just realized that ive had a solid freenode connection for over a month now  ^.^
Nov 03 01:05:17 <umdk1d3> signon: Mon Sep 22 22:37:02 2008
Nov 03 01:05:33 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 03 01:05:40 * Disconnect is 1 week so far
Nov 03 01:06:23 <swetland> I have to say these xda-developers threads are a fun read:
Nov 03 01:06:29 <swetland> If this phone is truly open then we should be able to ASK google what the root credentials are. Making this public on androidcommunity should twist googles arm enough.
Nov 03 01:06:31 <languish> heh
Nov 03 01:07:26 <elad> cellphone wars
Nov 03 01:07:45 <swetland> in particular the one where they're trying to reverse engineer the boot.img and recovery update.zip formats makes me scratch my head, given that all the source code to generate and process that stuff is published
Nov 03 01:07:50 * Disconnect is the loudest whiner about the non-openness around here and i've never claimed the keys were part of that. (at least, in so far as android itself..)
Nov 03 01:07:50 <languish> nah, google's just another business pulling a fast one on the public. nbd, it's par for the course.
Nov 03 01:08:00 <Disconnect> swetland: thats pretty funny
Nov 03 01:08:41 <swetland> there is a distinction between an open platform, an open phone, and an open development model
Nov 03 01:08:57 <swetland> s/open platform/open source platform/
Nov 03 01:08:58 <infobot> swetland meant: there is a distinction between an open source platform, an open phone, and an open development model
Nov 03 01:09:02 <languish> swetland, yep and that distinction wasn't make clear by the marketing peeps to the public
Nov 03 01:09:05 <swetland> 2 of 3 for the first device to ship is a nice start
Nov 03 01:09:09 <Disconnect> google -did- miss that when they started using private apis all over the place :)
Nov 03 01:09:24 <romainguy_> arf
Nov 03 01:09:30 <swetland> morning romain
Nov 03 01:09:48 <romainguy_> morning swetland :)
Nov 03 01:10:06 <Disconnect> morning? wicked timezone you've got there :)
Nov 03 01:10:11 <swetland> this weekend has involved entirely too much fallout 3
Nov 03 01:10:20 <romainguy_> swetland: I just got started on that one
Nov 03 01:10:21 <swetland> or perhaps, not nearly enough fallout 3
Nov 03 01:10:24 <Disconnect> dc metro is covered with ads for it, pretty neat looking
Nov 03 01:10:29 <swetland> depending on one's point of view
Nov 03 01:10:35 <swetland> I'm enjoying it a great deal so far
Nov 03 01:10:40 <romainguy_> glad to hear that
Nov 03 01:11:10 <swetland> you can definitely see the oblivion engine under the hood, but with a bunch of improvements, and I enjoy the fallout 3 world a lot more than oblivion's sorta generic fantasy world feel
Nov 03 01:11:13 <Disconnect> http://www.joystiq.com/photos/fallout-3-metro-ads/1083946/
Nov 03 01:11:38 <romainguy_> swetland: agreed, but I'm still a bit disappointed by small details
Nov 03 01:11:46 <romainguy_> I guess I'll forget about them when I get more into the game
Nov 03 01:11:49 <Disconnect> just a few of them (metro center is covered, its basically the biggest station - something like 10 train platforms on 3 levels)
Nov 03 01:11:53 <romainguy_> like I said, I just got started
Nov 03 01:12:09 <romainguy_> (I'm waiting for my gf to finish Fable 2 so I can get my Xbox back :)
Nov 03 01:12:11 <swetland> the point where I was totally sold
Nov 03 01:12:21 <swetland> was when I accepted a quest to explore a nearby super mega mart
Nov 03 01:12:45 <languish> and there were G1's on display?
Nov 03 01:12:49 <languish> ^_^
Nov 03 01:12:58 <swetland> which became the epic raid on the super mega mart and the storming of the phramacy dept and much entertainment ensued
Nov 03 01:13:05 <romainguy_> lol
Nov 03 01:13:25 * Disconnect doesn't think it'll run on the wii or the ds so.. :(
Nov 03 01:13:34 <swetland> more recently I was involved in a three-way gun battle with various factions in a burned out library
Nov 03 01:14:13 <swetland> I feel like I'm getting my post-apocalyptic money's worth
Nov 03 01:16:01 <morrildl_> http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/android.com/viewform?key=pRYCaLjqem6mb9DT3cj3fLw&hl=en
Nov 03 01:16:38 <morrildl_> Open Source Release: http://source.android.com/ | Android Market is now open for new applications: http://market.android.com/publish | Do you mind if we log #android? Open Source Release: http://source.android.com/ | Android Market is now open for new applications: http://market.android.com/publish |
Nov 03 01:16:42 <swetland> dan, that's some convoluted wording right there ^^
Nov 03 01:16:59 <swetland> "please vote yes if you do don't want to not not log!"
Nov 03 01:17:09 <cbeust_> If only we could have a page somewhere on the Internet that we could point people to
Nov 03 01:17:42 <cbeust_> I've heard good things about this technology called The Web
Nov 03 01:17:50 <Disconnect> ok i click that spreadsheets link and i get 'log into android.com email'
Nov 03 01:18:24 <morrildl_> Disconnect: ha, nice
Nov 03 01:18:27 <morrildl_> let me check into that
Nov 03 01:18:42 <michaelnovakjr__> Glance is in the Market now :)
Nov 03 01:18:48 <Disconnect> i'd love an android.com address but :)
Nov 03 01:19:17 <Miek> remove "/a/android.com" from it
Nov 03 01:19:54 <Disconnect> that worked
Nov 03 01:20:25 <morrildl_> thanks
Nov 03 01:20:48 <Disconnect> might say "do you mind if we log android? vote:" and investigate tinyurl
Nov 03 01:21:00 <morrildl_> Disconnect: yeah
Nov 03 01:21:18 <morrildl_> does that URI work
Nov 03 01:21:31 <Disconnect> yes
Nov 03 01:23:22 <elad> michael: very good work I like it!
Nov 03 01:23:51 <malaclyps> wow that xda-developers thread is something else
Nov 03 01:24:03 <malaclyps> THE PRIVATE KEY MUST BE IN THIS PHONE SOMEWHERE
Nov 03 01:24:09 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 03 01:24:24 * malaclyps bangs phone on table to dislodge key
Nov 03 01:24:48 <michaelnovakjr__> elad thanks
Nov 03 01:24:50 <swetland> stuck keys are such a common problem. I had a typewritter that suffered from that when I was a kid.
Nov 03 01:25:12 <donomo> ha
Nov 03 01:25:15 <Disconnect> malaclyps: if you short the battery for 90 seconds and then power up the phone it'll print they key on the screen.
Nov 03 01:26:07 <languish> i think my phones updating, the sync indicator's been active for at leat 30 minutes now
Nov 03 01:26:14 <languish> *least
Nov 03 01:26:28 <p1mrx> "the private key must be in this phone"?  someone doesn't understand public key crypto...
Nov 03 01:26:43 <phyburn> if I use android.os.Handler.sendMessageDelayed how could I get setText to display the message?
Nov 03 01:26:50 <languish> and there's 3g activity while I'm not doing anything
Nov 03 01:28:00 <spikebike> sweet, you are likely getting hte update
Nov 03 01:28:02 * spikebike is jealous
Nov 03 01:28:11 <Disconnect> spikebike: do an sd update
Nov 03 01:28:57 <phyburn> romainguy_, you still online?
Nov 03 01:29:10 <languish> ugh
Nov 03 01:29:12 <spikebike> I'm scared to
Nov 03 01:29:15 <languish> it's not the update
Nov 03 01:29:18 <spikebike> unless I hear they don't do it over edge
Nov 03 01:29:23 <spikebike> oh no? what is it?
Nov 03 01:29:26 <languish> it looks like contacts is having a problem updating
Nov 03 01:29:30 * languish facepalm
Nov 03 01:29:30 <Disconnect> nice
Nov 03 01:31:06 <languish> maybe it was the update, phone just randomly rebooted
Nov 03 01:31:18 <Disconnect> update prompts
Nov 03 01:31:18 <languish> but the info screen didn't say anything about an update pending
Nov 03 01:31:42 <languish> yeah, waiting for it
Nov 03 01:32:04 <languish> nope
Nov 03 01:32:09 <languish> didn't ask to update
Nov 03 01:32:19 <languish> it just rebooted itself for no appearent reason
Nov 03 01:32:22 <languish> yay :/
Nov 03 01:32:24 <Disconnect> everyday crash
Nov 03 01:33:12 <swetland> adb pull /proc/last_kmsg kmsg.txt
Nov 03 01:33:14 <spikebike> i wonder if the updates are ordered by imei number
Nov 03 01:33:28 <swetland> should give you a crash/reboot reason
Nov 03 01:33:38 <languish> be nice if there were an in-phone log access. I can't hook it up to adb right now
Nov 03 01:33:41 <swetland> (it'll be either a modem crash or kernel panic, most likely)
Nov 03 01:35:33 <languish> ahh crap, the sync indicators up again, and g3 data transfers going on, no update pending on the info screen, and on the sync screen it shows contacts syncing
Nov 03 01:35:56 <Disconnect> fun
Nov 03 01:36:00 <languish> there's only 11 contacts in there, it shouldn't be choking on it
Nov 03 01:36:03 <Disconnect> hehe
Nov 03 01:36:10 <languish> i haven't synced my phone book yet
Nov 03 01:36:27 <languish> testing too many apps that want contact info
Nov 03 01:36:39 <spikebike> languish is your storage decreasing?
Nov 03 01:36:42 <Disconnect> if it keeps crashing stop telling google and we'll see about finding an exploit
Nov 03 01:36:42 <spikebike> (on the sd card)
Nov 03 01:37:00 <languish> spikebike, lemme check
Nov 03 01:37:03 <spikebike> languish was it your phone with the broken accelerameter?
Nov 03 01:37:16 <languish> spike, no
Nov 03 01:37:42 <uluatu> neo freerunners, is there any successfull case here?
Nov 03 01:38:49 <spikebike> it should run android soon
Nov 03 01:38:58 <spikebike> hardware's not as nice, but it is open
Nov 03 01:39:06 <Disconnect> hey g1 ad on fox
Nov 03 01:39:09 <spikebike> define successful ;-)
Nov 03 01:39:39 <languish> no, sd card's not losing space
Nov 03 01:39:53 <languish> i did update a contact via gmail earlier today
Nov 03 01:40:00 <BHSPitLappy> Just a saw the G1 commercial on tv
Nov 03 01:40:02 <languish> rather via google apps mail
Nov 03 01:40:26 <phyburn> could anyone look at this code and tell me where I failed with my handler http://pastebin.com/d167c0795 I'm trying to get it to display the time to the screen
Nov 03 01:40:26 <languish> i think that's the problem
Nov 03 01:40:30 <AmericanM> OK, I got the G1 unlocked, using it with my Claro chip from central America, I configured the apn to the carrier settings, I see the edge simbol on the phone with the arrow pointing up working but not the one pointing one, after many attemps even in "safe mode" I cannot get pass the google account activation screen. Every time I get the error " cannot communicate with google servers" Can anyone help? is there a workarou
Nov 03 01:40:59 <Disconnect> i think you have to activate with tmobile first. but i'm not sure.
Nov 03 01:41:09 <spikebike> yeah
Nov 03 01:41:17 <spikebike> with a valid tmo sim
Nov 03 01:41:28 <AmericanM> hmmm
Nov 03 01:41:41 <AmericanM> there is no google activation bypass?
Nov 03 01:41:55 <AmericanM> to activate throug wifi?
Nov 03 01:42:02 <spikebike> not that I know of
Nov 03 01:42:20 <AmericanM> I do see the edge symbol on the g1
Nov 03 01:42:28 <AmericanM> and it does work on the iphone
Nov 03 01:42:30 <gambler> AmericanM, how did you get your G1 unlocked?
Nov 03 01:42:44 <gambler> I ve heard reports but havent been following that
Nov 03 01:42:48 <AmericanM> through a website
Nov 03 01:42:54 <gambler> linky?
Nov 03 01:43:14 * Disconnect got his unlocked by calling 611 and saying "send me my code, i might go to london in a week or two" and 16 hours later the email arrived
Nov 03 01:43:18 <AmericanM> http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com
Nov 03 01:43:29 <languish> gonna install the sdk on another box. this is getting ridiculouis
Nov 03 01:43:39 <gambler> Disconnect, smart
Nov 03 01:43:41 <spikebike> disconnect nice
Nov 03 01:43:56 <spikebike> I'll likely just wait for 3 months
Nov 03 01:44:32 <Disconnect> spikebike: same process either way, they'll ask why. if you talk to smartphone/blackberry group (esp if you are an existing customer) they'll generally just do it.
Nov 03 01:49:11 <languish> man I love unpacking archives on multicore systems
Nov 03 01:51:52 <uluatu> spikebike: next NEo Freerunner revision, gta03, will be better. Camera included so far.
Nov 03 01:52:28 <uluatu> Im trying to beta test some porting experiences, but it seems to be to early to do that.
Nov 03 01:53:03 <gambler> uluatu, when is that scheduled to be released?
Nov 03 01:53:32 <uluatu> gambler: not sure yet, but probably for the Christmas ;)
Nov 03 01:53:38 <uluatu> gta04 is underway
Nov 03 01:53:47 <phyburn> what handler method could you use to run a method over and over?
Nov 03 01:53:53 <uluatu> people from openmoko got 25 pieces of gta03 to start playing.
Nov 03 01:54:41 <CompBrain> my 1973 has been holding paper down nearly since I bought it
Nov 03 01:54:46 <uluatu> android  will run on all of them after some success porting to armv4t
Nov 03 01:55:01 <gambler> CompBrain, like my Greenphone is sitting in my toolbox
Nov 03 01:55:04 <uluatu> CompBrain: yeah, too bugy
Nov 03 01:55:39 <CompBrain> I gave it many chances. I *really* did
Nov 03 01:55:46 <uluatu> im giving qtextended 4.4.2 a chance, but same  problems. No grps, no wpa wifi, and so on..
Nov 03 01:57:42 <uluatu> until now this one gime  the best look and feel(the only one for a mobile gadget). But none of them let me use all features...
Nov 03 01:58:42 <uluatu> Ben got his first Android runnning on gta01 1973: http://benno.id.au/blog/2008/11/02/android-on-neo1973
Nov 03 01:58:49 <uluatu> today
Nov 03 02:00:17 <unix_remote> uluatu: that neo looks like it has a resistive screen?
Nov 03 02:00:37 <uluatu> resistive? What you mean?
Nov 03 02:00:43 <CompBrain> uluatu: Yeah
Nov 03 02:00:46 <CompBrain> it is resistive
Nov 03 02:01:07 <unix_remote> bummer, that bezel and the resistive screen makes for a terrible experience.
Nov 03 02:01:10 <CompBrain> uluatu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#Technologies
Nov 03 02:02:56 <languish> what command do I use to dump logcat with personal info filtered?
Nov 03 02:04:11 <uluatu> "Resistance type touch panel" from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware
Nov 03 02:04:17 <uluatu> ?
Nov 03 02:05:22 <languish> adb -d bugreport ?
Nov 03 02:05:29 <CompBrain> uluatu: You squish a resistance panel with your finger -- a capacitive panel like the G1, the screen is usually glass and does not squish underfinger
Nov 03 02:05:52 <CompBrain> think palm pilot vs iphone
Nov 03 02:05:57 <Disconnect> languish: gotta take bugreport and clean it up by hand :(
Nov 03 02:06:07 <languish> :/
Nov 03 02:06:12 <languish> I see there's a filter option
Nov 03 02:06:17 <uluatu> CompBrain: ok, much more clear. I got the point.
Nov 03 02:06:43 <languish> crap. adb doesn't see my G1 on this box
Nov 03 02:06:48 <languish> mrm
Nov 03 02:06:51 <unix_remote> anyone get their G1 @ walmart yet?
Nov 03 02:07:02 <Disconnect> languish: turn on usb debugging
Nov 03 02:07:10 <languish> Disconnect I have
Nov 03 02:07:24 <Disconnect> windows? needs a driver
Nov 03 02:07:30 <Disconnect> linux might need root
Nov 03 02:07:35 <Disconnect> osx seems to 'just work' for most people
Nov 03 02:07:54 <Disconnect> (sometimes you need to turn off usb storage also, so debug is on and storage is off - nice simple config)
Nov 03 02:08:15 <languish> nod
Nov 03 02:08:23 <languish> yeah windows, working on it
Nov 03 02:08:24 <spikebike> gta03 edge? 3g?
Nov 03 02:08:58 <spikebike> how much ram?
Nov 03 02:10:06 <Disconnect> while you're at it: " | No, you can't reflash a retail G1"
Nov 03 02:11:43 <wastrel> win 2
Nov 03 02:11:45 <wastrel> grr
Nov 03 02:12:28 <languish> i had to use a different usb port
Nov 03 02:12:34 <wastrel> i voted no on the logging
Nov 03 02:12:49 <Disconnect> weird. windows weirdness prolly, it seems to look at a device as 'port:device'
Nov 03 02:13:28 <languish> ok got adb devices identifying my g1 now
Nov 03 02:13:53 <languish> now to find out wtf this thing is rebooting itself
Nov 03 02:15:05 <languish> yep, it's choking on the damn contacts update
Nov 03 02:15:11 <languish> something about a photo
Nov 03 02:17:43 <uluatu> spikebike: yeah. both. 3G and edge
Nov 03 02:18:35 <uluatu> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03
Nov 03 02:18:46 <Disconnect> what freqs?
Nov 03 02:19:10 <Disconnect> btw best part of the new update (well, visible part so far): usb notifier before it decides to go all usb-storagee
Nov 03 02:19:12 <RyeBrye> Is that 3G? I thought it said 2.75G / EDGE
Nov 03 02:19:29 <RyeBrye> Yeah, the USB notifier is probably the ONLY thing visible in the update
Nov 03 02:19:36 <RyeBrye> Does anyone else have their home screen lock up frequently?
Nov 03 02:19:45 <spikebike> lock up?
Nov 03 02:19:46 <RyeBrye> When I say frequently, I mean probably 6 or 7 times a day
Nov 03 02:19:51 <spikebike> as in have to power cycle?
Nov 03 02:19:53 <RyeBrye> No
Nov 03 02:20:00 <spikebike> uluatu that seems to say no 3g
Nov 03 02:20:03 <Disconnect> for how long? mine can take as much as (timed) a minute before it draws more than the background and pull-tab
Nov 03 02:20:12 <RyeBrye> Yes, same here
Nov 03 02:20:21 <Disconnect> gotta file a bug on it, easy to reproduce: start browser loading a page, hit home
Nov 03 02:20:32 <RyeBrye> Ahh... Yes, that is probably what did it
Nov 03 02:20:36 <jasta> thats probably more to do with the scheduler than the home app
Nov 03 02:20:37 <RyeBrye> I didn't bother tracking down what was causing it
Nov 03 02:20:56 <spikebike> disconnect mine doesn't do that, just tried it
Nov 03 02:21:01 <Disconnect> jasta: yah SanMehat was looking at scheduler stuff iirc
Nov 03 02:21:12 <Disconnect> spikebike: load an image-heavy page maybe?
Nov 03 02:21:15 <languish> this is what it's choking on...
Nov 03 02:21:17 <languish> E/Sync    (   81): savePhoto: update of content://contacts/people/17/photo with values data=[**notsureifthisshouldbeprivate*** local_version=-***notsureifthisshouldbeprivate*** _sync_dirty=0 affected no rows
Nov 03 02:21:26 <spikebike> disconnect got a specific page in mind?
Nov 03 02:21:59 <languish> it keeps repeating that attempt to sync a photo I'm guessing, that isn't there to sync, from a contact image
Nov 03 02:22:30 <languish> until it uses up so much memeory it reboots the device
Nov 03 02:22:40 <RyeBrye> My wifi keeps going away and not coming back too
Nov 03 02:22:41 <Disconnect> spikebike: seems to depend on load, doesn't always do it
Nov 03 02:22:44 <Disconnect> yah
Nov 03 02:23:02 <spikebike> I've seen a few seconds of non-responsiveness after closing an app
Nov 03 02:23:11 <spikebike> nothing close to a minute though
Nov 03 02:23:43 <Disconnect> it does 30-60 seconds at least 3 times a day.
Nov 03 02:23:56 <Disconnect> sometimes its fast, usually its ok, occasionally its terrible
Nov 03 02:24:13 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I'm not sure if it's always the browser that causes it for me
Nov 03 02:24:28 <RyeBrye> Although that time it did
Nov 03 02:24:34 <RyeBrye> I had 2 windows both loading stuff
Nov 03 02:24:41 <RyeBrye> and... It's still down
Nov 03 02:24:46 * Disconnect would help debug it but its not like i run any test code or do any analysis
Nov 03 02:24:51 <RyeBrye> ok, just came back - maybe about 30 seconds
Nov 03 02:25:50 <languish> mice, I go install adb to get the logcat and the gdevs disappear
Nov 03 02:26:02 * languish remembers to complain some more when they get back
Nov 03 02:26:04 <RyeBrye> If I open up 3 or 4 windows, I bet I can make that home screen take a minute to pop up
Nov 03 02:26:05 <languish> :DS
Nov 03 02:26:07 <offby1> HEISENBUG!
Nov 03 02:26:19 <spikebike> anyone else notice that some google contact groups are missing?
Nov 03 02:26:20 <languish> more like HINDENBUG
Nov 03 02:27:04 <languish> spikebike, maybe that's what this is choking on. I created a couple of google contact groups
Nov 03 02:27:24 <languish> when it went to syc my contacts, it began throwing a hissyfit
Nov 03 02:27:27 <spikebike> I noticed that some trnasfer and some don't
Nov 03 02:27:29 <languish> *sync
Nov 03 02:27:42 <spikebike> the family group doesn't carry over, but most of the custom ones that were created did
Nov 03 02:27:43 <languish> ugh, this was so not ready for prime time
Nov 03 02:27:45 <RyeBrye> Yeah, Disconnect - 30 seconds each time for me recently. I just have to open more than one window and I can reproduce it 100% - although the clock in the header and the battery-charge icon continue to update normally the home screen id just unresponsive
Nov 03 02:27:50 <Disconnect> yah
Nov 03 02:28:20 <Disconnect> hold home and you can sometimes switch to a different app
Nov 03 02:29:04 <RyeBrye> Another bug I see is that when it looses my wifi for some reason, and it falls back to edge - programs seem to not want to use the edge... i.e I open up the market app and it will just give me errors that it can't get to the network
Nov 03 02:29:07 <offby1> kinda like Alt+TAB in Windows
Nov 03 02:29:20 <languish> i wish this could tell me WHAT contact it was choking on
Nov 03 02:29:20 <spikebike> rye yeah seen that
Nov 03 02:29:24 <spikebike> usually it's the opposite
Nov 03 02:29:36 <RyeBrye> Going from edge -> wifi that things don't want to use the connection?
Nov 03 02:29:38 <languish> likely the debug info says it, but it's not obvious
Nov 03 02:29:39 <Disconnect> offby1: there is an app to see whats actually running, home just shows last up-to-6 apps
Nov 03 02:29:44 <spikebike> I have edge, startup wifi and devices still try to use edge or just timeout... like trying to login to gtalk
Nov 03 02:29:48 <spikebike> if I power cycle it works
Nov 03 02:30:00 <offby1> Disconnect: yeah, I've got P-something-service installed; it's kinda like "ps"
Nov 03 02:30:29 <RyeBrye> Good thing this is an open OS so we can compile our own latest kernels and work on fixing these bugs ourselves just like we can with linux...
Nov 03 02:30:31 <RyeBrye> Oh... wait...
Nov 03 02:30:32 <Disconnect> it was crashy for me so i went back to using the hold-home one
Nov 03 02:30:39 <RyeBrye> :P
Nov 03 02:30:49 <spikebike> ryebrye yeah kinda sad it's just as closed as any phone
Nov 03 02:30:55 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: i'd buy the "its a platform" crap from google if they hadn't waited for devices to ship to release the code :)
Nov 03 02:30:58 <languish> RyeBrye, quotefiled
Nov 03 02:30:58 <languish> :D
Nov 03 02:31:02 <RyeBrye> :
Nov 03 02:31:05 <RyeBrye> :
Nov 03 02:31:15 <RyeBrye> err... :) - I kept losing my mouth! ;)
Nov 03 02:31:25 <languish> heh
Nov 03 02:31:41 <tweakt> is it possible to play an audio file a person you are calling?
Nov 03 02:31:47 <tweakt> *to
Nov 03 02:32:01 <RyeBrye> I hope so, but I'm not sure
Nov 03 02:32:09 <RyeBrye> because I want to write a vocoder someday
Nov 03 02:32:24 <tweakt> hold music ;-)
Nov 03 02:32:28 <RyeBrye> so the audio file I want to play would be a screwed-with version of the voice of the user
Nov 03 02:32:45 <tweakt> oh, that'd be cool
Nov 03 02:32:53 <tweakt> voice scrambler
Nov 03 02:32:55 <RyeBrye> yep :)
Nov 03 02:33:20 <languish> guess I have to go in to my gmail contacts and undo my groups for this shit to stop messing with my G1
Nov 03 02:33:35 <RyeBrye> Syncing with gmail contacts wouldn't be too bad
Nov 03 02:33:38 <languish> because I can't tell from the logcat which contact it's choking on
Nov 03 02:33:42 <RyeBrye> if Gmail didn't make a contact for EVERY person you ever emailed
Nov 03 02:33:52 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: you can turn that off now.
Nov 03 02:33:55 <RyeBrye> It took me about an hour to sift through and delete tons of people form my contacts
Nov 03 02:34:04 <languish> RyeBrye, yeah and you can't delete someone. you can only "hide" them
Nov 03 02:34:05 <spikebike> ya
Nov 03 02:34:08 <offby1> my gripe is the inability to merge contacts, but that has nothing to do with the phone
Nov 03 02:34:09 <wastrel> contacts
Nov 03 02:34:10 <languish> which is evil
Nov 03 02:34:13 <spikebike> seems like the g1 takes a random subset
Nov 03 02:34:18 <spikebike> so mycontacts for gmail
Nov 03 02:34:19 <Disconnect> it'd be really nice if i could keep my normal email account and then get contacts+calendar+email from the new(er) one that isn't full of all that crap
Nov 03 02:34:27 <spikebike> gtalk gets a different subset
Nov 03 02:34:29 <offby1> wastrel: I've said it before, but: I love your nick.  Wish I'd chosen it first.
Nov 03 02:34:35 <spikebike> contacst gets a different subset
Nov 03 02:34:52 <RyeBrye> I used a contact syncing program on my mac to get my google contacts in sync with my local ones
Nov 03 02:34:57 <RyeBrye> it handled merging ok
Nov 03 02:35:00 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: you mean isync? :)
Nov 03 02:35:22 <RyeBrye> No, isynch doesn't quite do it
Nov 03 02:35:30 <wastrel> thx.  i've been using it so long when i see the word used outside of IRC i get a little weirded out
Nov 03 02:35:44 <RyeBrye> ISynch will if you have an iphone - kind of - but a program called Spanning Sync worked nicely
Nov 03 02:36:04 * Disconnect uses isync to sync address book and gmail, works fine
Nov 03 02:36:25 <RyeBrye> Disconnect - do you have an iphone? or did you use the hack to make it think you had an iphone?
Nov 03 02:36:40 <RyeBrye> Otherwise, the syncing between address book and google contacts doesn't show up
Nov 03 02:36:55 <Disconnect> i don't have an iphone. did way way back when but thats not used here. it was working fine when i had my e90.
Nov 03 02:37:27 <RyeBrye> Is it in isync?
Nov 03 02:37:33 <RyeBrye> what device it is syncing?
Nov 03 02:37:39 <Disconnect> not the phone. it was syncing the e90
Nov 03 02:37:50 <Disconnect> not the iphone i mean
Nov 03 02:38:11 <RyeBrye> I open iSync and I have no devices - and I can try to add the G1 but it can't sync to it...
Nov 03 02:38:24 <RyeBrye> how do you add google contacts as a syncing device?
Nov 03 02:38:27 <Disconnect> g1 offers no bluetooth services. so no sync.
Nov 03 02:38:39 <RyeBrye> Right
Nov 03 02:38:52 <Disconnect> its so open it can't even do backups
Nov 03 02:39:04 <RyeBrye> "You cannot sync your computer and devices until you add a device to iSync."
Nov 03 02:39:22 <RyeBrye> I can't sync, and I can't add a device, so I don't know how I could get isync to sync my google contacts and my address book
Nov 03 02:41:25 <languish> ok so I found the problem. the picture in one of the contacts wasn't being sync'd, but it kept attempting to
Nov 03 02:41:54 <languish> after removing the picture from the google contact info, the sync stopped choking
Nov 03 02:42:07 <languish> now I can go eat
Nov 03 02:42:14 <d0nets> umoms
Nov 03 02:42:16 <phyburn> what handler method could you use to run a class method that I made over and over?
Nov 03 02:42:31 <RyeBrye> phyburn: a while loop?
Nov 03 02:42:33 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 03 02:42:38 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 03 02:42:40 <phyburn> lol
Nov 03 02:42:45 <phyburn> I did that! with no success
Nov 03 02:42:56 <phyburn> I think it loaded it to fast or something because I could never view it
Nov 03 02:44:30 <phyburn> I can't figure it out, I've tried so many handler methods and none of them seem to work
Nov 03 02:44:59 <d0nets> someone help me port a guitar tuner
Nov 03 02:45:05 <Disconnect> oh lord not that again
Nov 03 02:45:09 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 03 02:45:10 <d0nets> i need a tuner
Nov 03 02:45:19 <RyeBrye> Just write your own - it'd probably be easier than porting one
Nov 03 02:45:26 <languish> st0ned dude, you ask that in here too much
Nov 03 02:45:27 <d0nets> i know 0 java
Nov 03 02:45:31 <d0nets> i know
Nov 03 02:45:33 <d0nets> heres the best place
Nov 03 02:45:34 <d0nets> lol
Nov 03 02:45:36 <RyeBrye> re-using FFT libraries would be smart
Nov 03 02:45:37 <Disconnect> so you could be learning it instead
Nov 03 02:45:45 <Disconnect> or posting it to one of the programmer-bounty boards
Nov 03 02:45:46 <RyeBrye> I'll write you one for $1000 :D
Nov 03 02:45:53 <d0nets> now its not even just wanting to do it, its more just wanting to play the guitar and remembering i dont have a tuner anymore
Nov 03 02:46:01 <d0nets> ill give you 20
Nov 03 02:46:05 <d0nets> and a pat on the back
Nov 03 02:46:18 * Disconnect is tempted to write one and charge $100 just cuz
Nov 03 02:46:26 <Disconnect> gpl of course, can just recycle existing stuff
Nov 03 02:47:02 <RyeBrye> I'm not convinced the microphone on a phone can be good enough to do a guitar tuner that wont suck
Nov 03 02:47:07 <phyburn> anyone have any good tutorial on handlers?
Nov 03 02:47:08 <d0nets> rybrye
Nov 03 02:47:10 <RyeBrye> maybe I'm wrong
Nov 03 02:47:15 <d0nets> ive had a guitar tuner on my phone for about 4 years
Nov 03 02:47:20 <phyburn> I just fail at reading the API info page thing
Nov 03 02:47:27 <RyeBrye> Yeah, but did it work?
Nov 03 02:47:29 <d0nets> yea
Nov 03 02:47:31 <d0nets> works damn well
Nov 03 02:47:50 <Disconnect> its a pretty simple waveform
Nov 03 02:47:52 <RyeBrye> I'm a tuner snob... I like tuners that work fast and that I plug my guitar into directly - but that's just me
Nov 03 02:47:58 <d0nets> the big E is a little weird with a pick on my guitar
Nov 03 02:48:09 <d0nets> i just use my thumb for that
Nov 03 02:48:12 <RyeBrye> The nicest tuner I've ever used was a super-expensive stroboscope one
Nov 03 02:48:14 <d0nets> other than that it works just fine
Nov 03 02:48:27 <d0nets> yea but rye its nice having it where you have your phone, everywhere
Nov 03 02:48:28 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: rig up a headset plug mic
Nov 03 02:48:50 <RyeBrye> Ok, I might start looking at what it would take to do it
Nov 03 02:49:00 <d0nets> rye
Nov 03 02:49:02 <RyeBrye> but I've never done much with audio programming, so it might not come of much :)
Nov 03 02:49:04 <Disconnect> be sure to charge $100 for it
Nov 03 02:49:08 <d0nets> http://code.google.com/p/tunedroid
Nov 03 02:49:09 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 03 02:49:19 <d0nets> theres 2 examples on the page
Nov 03 02:49:38 <RyeBrye> I should write a Web 2.0 tuner
Nov 03 02:49:45 <RyeBrye> where users upload audio clips of their guitar
Nov 03 02:49:51 <RyeBrye> and other users vote on if they are in tune or not
Nov 03 02:49:52 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 03 02:49:57 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 03 02:50:02 <Disconnect> that rocks
Nov 03 02:50:04 <d0nets> lol
Nov 03 02:51:51 <RyeBrye> http://www.precisionstrobe.com/
Nov 03 02:52:24 <RyeBrye> I think I used one once thatw as like a $1500 tuner
Nov 03 02:52:29 <RyeBrye> It was VERY easy to tune with :)
Nov 03 02:52:46 <RyeBrye> I think my high school band teacher had it for some reason
Nov 03 02:53:01 <RyeBrye> (Well, the some reason = tuning stuff - but why they had such an expensive one I don't know)
Nov 03 02:53:51 <benley> I've never been big into using tuners for acoustic instruments
Nov 03 02:54:23 <benley> just give me a stable reference note and I'm good :)
Nov 03 02:55:01 <d0nets> benley
Nov 03 02:55:11 <d0nets> yea i just like relying on technology
Nov 03 02:55:22 <RyeBrye> d0nets - how about I write you a virtual pitch pipe and we'll call it good?
Nov 03 02:55:23 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 03 02:55:28 <d0nets> lolol
Nov 03 02:55:42 <d0nets> that would be a decent start
Nov 03 02:55:47 <Disconnect> how about i send you a link to a great java reference and you make your own freakin tuner
Nov 03 02:56:13 <benley> d0nets: that's fine too, and lots of people benefit greatly from a tuner device
Nov 03 02:56:30 <RyeBrye> I wonder if there are any specs on how reliable the microphone in this thing is
Nov 03 02:56:50 <d0nets> disconnect what do you mean a java reference
Nov 03 02:56:53 <benley> what kind of reliable?
Nov 03 02:57:06 <elad> god i love thai food
Nov 03 02:57:12 <RyeBrye> As in how good of a mic it is for frequency resolution - max frequency and min frequency etc
Nov 03 02:57:19 <RyeBrye> what is the sample rate of it?
Nov 03 02:57:20 <Disconnect> elad: we've got lemongrass near us. awesome place.
Nov 03 02:57:39 <Disconnect> across the street from my PT office, makes it hard :)
Nov 03 02:58:03 <RyeBrye> If I could make somewhat reliable virtual stroboscope tuner, that would be pretty cool
Nov 03 02:58:41 <benley> it's probably reliable in terms of pitch accuracy, but not as much in terms of harmonics
Nov 03 02:59:20 <d0nets> splashplay is having a guitar app released in early 09
Nov 03 02:59:21 <d0nets> with a tuner
Nov 03 02:59:32 <d0nets> i used guitar toolkit on iphone
Nov 03 02:59:34 <RyeBrye> for free?
Nov 03 02:59:43 <d0nets> and gtuner on wm
Nov 03 02:59:46 <d0nets> not sure rye
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