**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 04 02:59:57 2008 Nov 04 03:00:02 but in the context of implementing IMAP IDLE Nov 04 03:00:13 I wasn't saying you should roll several features in one patch Nov 04 03:00:21 well, i still think that should be broken up into two patches, one big redesign, then one small patch implementing IMAP IDLE Nov 04 03:00:46 because 90% of this current patch i have is just redesigning the way the whole app comes together Nov 04 03:01:04 sounds good Nov 04 03:01:21 jasta's fixing up email? Nov 04 03:01:55 im doing my part to. Nov 04 03:02:10 yeah, but hell will freeze over before t-mobile approves and disseminates an update with it Nov 04 03:02:21 btw, hell is rumored to freeze over in 1Q09 Nov 04 03:02:40 i don't have to care about that. i mostly just want someone to be able to do a clean checkout from git, build it, and load it onto their phone Nov 04 03:02:46 loading it on your phone is pretty simple. Nov 04 03:02:52 romainguy: not quite, we just show how many new conversations *since you last checked* Nov 04 03:03:08 which is a bit more useful, since a lot of people have Gmail inboxes with thousands of unread conversations Nov 04 03:03:16 cbeust_: really? because it keeps showing me the total number of unread emails I have in my inbox Nov 04 03:03:17 any idea why my phone has twice rebooted while I was in the middle of a call? Nov 04 03:03:23 cbeust_: right, so how do you do that? Nov 04 03:03:28 romainguy___: yes but not in the notification Nov 04 03:03:33 if the user clears the notification, how do you know next time to show 1 unread? Nov 04 03:03:45 memorize the number of unread Nov 04 03:03:49 versus if they had not cleared the notification, showing the previous number + 1? Nov 04 03:04:08 cbeust_: if I have 3 unread, clear the notification, open gmail, get out, get an email, it tells me I have 4 unreads Nov 04 03:04:16 (or at least that's how I remember it to work) Nov 04 03:04:23 and thats the behaviour i was after Nov 04 03:04:30 Yes sorry I'm not being clear Nov 04 03:04:31 although I totally believe you because the behavior you describe would be much smarter :)) Nov 04 03:05:02 That's why we make the distinction between "new" and "unread" Nov 04 03:05:07 ah ok Nov 04 03:05:14 the unread count will only go down if you actually open a conversation Nov 04 03:05:46 I'm following these instructions http://code.google.com/android/reference/adb.html but my g1 android device is not detected only my emulator is. My g1 phone is connected via USB. What am I doing wrong? Nov 04 03:05:53 cbeust_: so the notification shows unread or new? Nov 04 03:06:00 ugarit: on WIndows? Nov 04 03:06:06 New, because unread is not meaningful most of the time Nov 04 03:06:10 Mac OS X Nov 04 03:06:16 You would see "1211 unread message", you clear it Nov 04 03:06:19 10.5.x Nov 04 03:06:21 then you see "1213 unread messages" Nov 04 03:06:22 not very helpful Nov 04 03:06:24 did you enable USB debugging on the phone? Nov 04 03:06:26 right Nov 04 03:06:43 romainguy___ no, just a sec Nov 04 03:06:48 cbeust_: so, how do you figure out the new count? if i have 1 new, then i get another new, you show 2 by just remembering the number right? so what if i hit "clear", how do you detect that? Nov 04 03:08:18 romainguy___ hmm, how do I do that? Nov 04 03:08:30 ugarit: settings > applications > development > check USB debugging Nov 04 03:09:05 it now works! :-) thank you Nov 04 03:09:09 :) Nov 04 03:09:35 is it safe to go from RC19 to RC29 without the OTA? Nov 04 03:10:00 it's up to you :) Nov 04 03:10:12 I would tell you to just wait for the OTA Nov 04 03:11:03 i don't see what's the rush :) Nov 04 03:11:36 how often is OTA pushed to phones? Nov 04 03:14:49 I see that ln is available. Is it safe to symlink .apk to a real apk file on sdcard? Nov 04 03:15:14 well you cannot create the link in the right place Nov 04 03:15:14 so it won't help Nov 04 03:16:55 ah too bad. I hope they formally do this so I don't fill up my onboard storage capacity Nov 04 03:17:17 we're thinking about it :) Nov 04 03:17:41 does the OTA update require a certain amount of free space to succeed? Nov 04 03:17:50 yes Nov 04 03:17:53 but Nov 04 03:17:57 this space is reserved already Nov 04 03:18:00 so no need to worry about it Nov 04 03:18:05 really? that's clever :) Nov 04 03:18:17 ah, I see Nov 04 03:18:24 I installed HelloAndroid.apk on my device and I can see it on the phone but I don't c it in /system/app, where does it get installed? Nov 04 03:18:34 ugarit: /data/app Nov 04 03:18:46 but you cannot see it there either Nov 04 03:19:16 * jbq owns the space that's used to temporarily store the OTA updates. Nov 04 03:19:17 jasta: it's odd I can ls /system/app but not /data/app, I get permission denied Nov 04 03:19:27 jbq: gimme some! Nov 04 03:19:44 ugarit: it's by design :) Nov 04 03:19:53 romainguy___: that's in my plans... if I continue to work on the download manager, that is. Nov 04 03:20:00 :) Nov 04 03:20:03 but I would guess system is more critical Nov 04 03:20:12 jbq: wanna take over the Home screen instead? ) Nov 04 03:20:14 :) Nov 04 03:20:27 ugarit: you cannot write in /system Nov 04 03:20:40 romainguy___: no, thanks (plus you do a great job with it) Nov 04 03:20:52 that's because you haven't read Home's code :p Nov 04 03:20:54 but I can ls /system but cannot /data Nov 04 03:21:01 ugarit: yes Nov 04 03:21:12 romainguy___: did you read the download manager code? :p Nov 04 03:21:13 you still cannot write in either Nov 04 03:21:20 so how do I uninstall via the shell? Nov 04 03:21:31 ugarit: adb uninstall com.your.app.package Nov 04 03:21:43 jbq: I wanted to but I read adb first and my eyes started bleeding :) Nov 04 03:21:51 lol Nov 04 03:21:59 maybe /usr/local would be good to have Nov 04 03:22:00 (works with aapt too :) Nov 04 03:22:06 and their one can symlink Nov 04 03:22:15 and there one can symlink Nov 04 03:22:19 oh gee, aapt is "interesting", I Nov 04 03:22:27 to say the least ^^ Nov 04 03:22:31 I've tried to mess with it a bit, I ended up with papercuts everywhere on my hands. Nov 04 03:22:38 lol Nov 04 03:23:29 adb will make your eyes bleed, aapt will cut your hands, ViewRoot will make you want to die and ListView will eat your babies Nov 04 03:23:35 (I exaggerate) Nov 04 03:24:03 so why are there apache jars in the sdk? Nov 04 03:24:14 jasta, well it sounds good... i'll be eager to see what comes out of it Nov 04 03:24:19 because we use apache libraries? Nov 04 03:24:24 ==romainguy___ Nov 04 03:24:42 Android builds on several dozen open-source projects. Nov 04 03:24:43 are there plan to run apache as a server? Nov 04 03:24:47 romainguy___++ Nov 04 03:24:54 apache != web server ugarit Nov 04 03:25:00 between ant, and apr Nov 04 03:25:06 and the other things you can use from apache outside of httpd Nov 04 03:25:09 Apache as in the Apache Software Foundation Nov 04 03:25:22 I c apache license? Nov 04 03:26:20 yes, a lot of the code that was written specifically for android was licensed under the apache licence 2.0. Nov 04 03:26:54 any plans to have an on screen keyboard? Nov 04 03:27:05 yes Nov 04 03:27:08 so I one can text with one hand Nov 04 03:27:12 planned for 1st Q2009 Nov 04 03:27:18 excellent Nov 04 03:27:48 and when is the app installations onto the sdcard going to be available? Nov 04 03:27:54 no eta Nov 04 03:28:16 that would seem to be a higher priority IMHO :-) Nov 04 03:28:43 everybody has a higher priority ^^ Nov 04 03:29:08 but I may not have enough storage for the onscreen keyboard :-) Nov 04 03:29:22 the solution is simple Nov 04 03:29:22 don't worry about that, we have reserved space Nov 04 03:29:25 buy two G1's Nov 04 03:29:28 G1s Nov 04 03:30:33 how about emoticons for sms? Nov 04 03:31:02 on screen that is Nov 04 03:31:07 no idea Nov 04 03:31:58 that's my shuttle stop Nov 04 03:32:00 ++ Nov 04 03:32:07 Once you start to talk about features in individual apps (as opposed to framework features), there's a lot more flexibility, and therefore the roadmaps and schedules are a lot more fuzzy. Nov 04 03:32:18 how about irc client? Nov 04 03:32:28 I'm pretty sure that won't happen :) Nov 04 03:32:29 ugarit: i am working on an irc client Nov 04 03:32:32 at least not as a core app Nov 04 03:32:34 "excellent 3rd-party opportunity" Nov 04 03:32:39 yes Nov 04 03:32:41 lol jbq Nov 04 03:32:48 IRC over IMPS would be interesting. Nov 04 03:32:49 i've started work on one :) Nov 04 03:32:51 michaelnoakjr what's the eta? Nov 04 03:32:56 (or over XMPP) Nov 04 03:33:00 no idea Nov 04 03:33:13 jbq: over IMPS? hope you have unlimited text :) Nov 04 03:33:29 how about streaming (.pls) audio? Nov 04 03:33:37 romainguy__ i have come to see unlimited text as necessary Nov 04 03:33:40 :) Nov 04 03:33:42 for radio stations (shoutcast) Nov 04 03:33:44 yep me too :) Nov 04 03:33:49 ugarit: I think it works in the browser Nov 04 03:33:50 not sure though Nov 04 03:33:59 it doesn't Nov 04 03:34:03 IMPS is an open standard, people can roll out their free servers. Nov 04 03:34:04 ugarit: when are you going to start writing some of this stuff you are asking for? Nov 04 03:34:21 I should but I don't know java Nov 04 03:36:43 is there a list of changes between rc19 and rc29 and if so where can one find them? Nov 04 03:37:00 someone should make an app auto updater, I hate the fact that I need to download updates manually Nov 04 03:37:40 hi everybody Nov 04 03:37:54 i am new to android Nov 04 03:38:16 does android sdk works fine on fedora 9 Nov 04 03:38:38 yes, its java Nov 04 03:38:45 does java work on fedora 9? Nov 04 03:38:46 lol Nov 04 03:38:51 works great on linux, tons of money has been put into it Nov 04 03:39:05 uh.. yeah, fedora is the community version of red hat's distro Nov 04 03:39:08 red hat is big on Java Nov 04 03:39:44 * mikez6 seeing discussion of .pls on the scroll up. Nov 04 03:40:18 thanks Nov 04 03:40:21 We support .pls files that point to files on the SD card, but unfortunately not http:// for streaming audio Nov 04 03:40:29 romainguy___ .pls via browser and from shoutcast: sorry the player doesn't support this type of audio file Nov 04 03:41:26 a lot of people have been complaining about the .pls streaming audio problem and the right people know about it. Nov 04 03:41:29 it's not really an audiofile... it's just a simple markup for where to fetch the http:// stream. Nov 04 03:41:51 mikez6, well android is open source... how about fixing it? Nov 04 03:42:05 mikez6 the browser downloads the .pls file and puts it in the sdcard but it still won't work Nov 04 03:42:21 supposedly android binaries for the openmoko freerunner are out in the wild... anyone seen them? Nov 04 03:42:35 docpaul saw the story Nov 04 03:42:37 whats the hardware required for running android OS Nov 04 03:43:41 I just noticed that some apk files get installed on the sdcard! handycalc and tabletop Nov 04 03:43:56 ugarit: neat, i'll have to go look for that Nov 04 03:44:14 ugarit: nothing is hooked up to handle pls files, so it just gets downloaded and nothing happens after that. Nov 04 03:44:14 uh... Nov 04 03:44:54 It might be possible for a 3rd party app to register to handle the PLS file type, read the URL and ask the music app to play it. Nov 04 03:44:57 is there and eta to enhance Nov 04 03:45:04 <_avatar> so, has anyone seen a "SIM card full" notification shortly after getting their G1? i press the notification, and it takes me to a white screen with "Refreshing..." in the title, and an indeterminate progress bar in the upper right corner. nothing ever happens. Nov 04 03:45:05 But it would be better if android did that automatically. Nov 04 03:45:55 Damm: /me already working full time on fixing android stuff Nov 04 03:45:58 mikez6: "excellent 3rd-party opportunity" Nov 04 03:46:34 :) Nov 04 03:46:59 I must have said that hundreds of times over the years. Nov 04 03:47:09 jbq, rightfully so Nov 04 03:47:18 there's no need to bloat the core os with stuff like that Nov 04 03:47:44 well, Moore's law will take care of the bloat, eventually. Nov 04 03:48:42 i'm not exactly sure moore's law applies to mobile platforms. Nov 04 03:49:31 how do I do ctrl-c on the keyboard? Nov 04 03:49:59 alt-c Nov 04 03:50:10 It pretty much does. I've been in the mobile industry for 8 years, and phones have stayed consistently 10 to 15 years behind PCs. Nov 04 03:50:13 oh jebus, I just had my first taste at assembly and I think I need to wash my hands. Nov 04 03:50:28 some say Java is verbose Nov 04 03:50:32 I find assembly verbose :)) Nov 04 03:50:47 romainguy_ agreed Nov 04 03:51:04 unix_infidel: i like assembly... but it certainly is verbose Nov 04 03:51:20 i also have grown to like Java Nov 04 03:51:23 :) Nov 04 03:51:27 romainguy_: well, these were guys who wore suits with vests in the middle of the summer. Nov 04 03:51:28 I find java verbose but Eclipse fixes that problem and the resulting code is easier to understand by other people Nov 04 03:51:41 tmccrary: agreed Nov 04 03:51:42 so its basically win win Nov 04 03:52:54 <_avatar> so, clarifying my last question, is there any way to figure out why my SIM card is full? Nov 04 03:53:22 SMSes? Nov 04 03:53:29 I know nothing about language design, but verbosity when it counts is hardly a bad thing. Nov 04 03:53:31 _avatar: did you transfer it from another phone where you might have had many contacts or done much text messaging? Nov 04 03:54:04 <_avatar> jbq: yeah, t-mobile transferred the contents of my old SIM card to the new one. i'd like to figure out whats on there, and delete it Nov 04 03:54:07 * Damm needs a saner way then txt messages for nagios. Nov 04 03:54:21 * Damm prays that TXT's don't stay on the SIM Nov 04 03:55:03 <_avatar> RyeBrye: i did some research, i don't think SMSs are stored on the SIM. i'm sure its whatever was on the old SIM Nov 04 03:55:09 <_avatar> which may very well be messages from my old phone, i guess Nov 04 03:55:33 most phones store it on the SIM Nov 04 03:55:37 and 64k doesn't give you much room Nov 04 03:55:38 Android might not store stuff on the SIM - but your old phone might have Nov 04 03:55:44 it's pretty common for phones to store SMS on the SIM Nov 04 03:55:47 <_avatar> right, that's what i'm saying Nov 04 03:55:58 So... SMSes might be filling it up then :) Nov 04 03:56:12 <_avatar> so, the important question, how do i delete the old messages (or whatever)? :) Nov 04 03:56:24 swetland - you around? Nov 04 03:56:32 <_avatar> ah, i bet i can throw the SIM in my old phone. Nov 04 03:56:42 I'm trying (just for giggles) to build the HTC dream tree from git... I'm getting this error: make: *** No rule to make target `dream/proprietary/akmd', needed by `out/target/product/generic/system/bin/akmd'. Stop. Nov 04 03:56:50 <_avatar> don't know why i didn't think of that immediately, its been a long day i guess Nov 04 03:57:07 RyeBrye: sounds like it's proprietary~ Nov 04 03:57:22 RyeBrye: yeah, at this point the open-source tree doesn't have enough to build the relevant system image (and boot image) Nov 04 03:57:30 _avatar: saved contacts? Nov 04 03:57:48 jbq - this makes me sad Nov 04 03:57:53 jbq, yeah don't you have to copy some of it off the phone? Nov 04 03:57:58 RyeBrye: you should be able to adb pull it off the device Nov 04 03:58:14 I'll try again - but I'm pretty sure I did do the extract-files.sh or whatever it was called Nov 04 03:58:22 akmd is a daemon that takes care of the Dream compass/accelerometer Nov 04 03:58:24 how can i get android mobile in INDIA Nov 04 03:58:24 RyeBrye: me even more so, because I have a flashable phone and I can't use the open-source build on my phone. Nov 04 03:58:40 rye: somewhat. what's up? Nov 04 03:58:42 jbq - where do you live, just out of curiosity? Nov 04 03:58:49 RyeBrye: Bay Area. Nov 04 03:59:11 swetland - I was just asking about a build error for the dream thing - but I think the answer is: "it's not working yet" Nov 04 03:59:16 i thought akmd was rewritten at some point Nov 04 03:59:16 rye: look at vendor/htc/dream/README.txt Nov 04 03:59:21 actually it is working Nov 04 03:59:25 Ok Nov 04 03:59:30 DannyB: not in 1.0 Nov 04 03:59:38 there are a couple missing bits but they're getting wrapped up. you *should* be able to build though Nov 04 03:59:40 ah Nov 04 03:59:47 I'll re-read it. I'm pretty sure I did the extract-files part, but I'll run it again for good measure Nov 04 03:59:53 i just remember rlove saying something about it Nov 04 04:00:04 do I also need to override the pre-built kernel image? Nov 04 04:00:08 DannyB: mathias and I have been working on a replacement. Nov 04 04:00:11 right now audio, 3d, gps are not going to work on these builds, but we should get these soon Nov 04 04:00:14 It says "if you wish to" - but I didn't wish to Nov 04 04:00:17 rye: nah, the prebuilt kernel should be fine Nov 04 04:00:55 akmd is one of the files extract-files.sh copies (your error above), so I think either it had a problem or you didn't run the script while in the vendor/htc/dream directory Nov 04 04:01:22 oh, interesting - I DO have akmd in vendor/htc/dream/proprietary Nov 04 04:01:35 odd. not sure why the build can't find it them Nov 04 04:02:16 I'll try to run make again Nov 04 04:02:28 can someone send me the production pk8 and pem files? they would really help Nov 04 04:02:33 ;) Nov 04 04:04:21 * jbq will re-try a device build from the open-source tree tomorrow. Nov 04 04:04:22 RyeBrye, you can build the image for the emulator... but a self built image on the G1 is very unlikely. Nov 04 04:04:39 Yeah, I know Nov 04 04:05:01 I think that the recovery files in the open source tree are different from what are on our phones as well Nov 04 04:05:01 besides it's not really the pem Nov 04 04:05:08 what you need is the keystore and the password for it Nov 04 04:05:25 keytool does all the signing just like the apps Nov 04 04:05:29 no, what I need is the pk8 and the pem so I can just use signapk the same way they do on their production builds Nov 04 04:05:31 good ole way of signing java apps :) Nov 04 04:05:45 you need that also Nov 04 04:05:45 believe me, I've been looking into this a LOT today Nov 04 04:05:51 you CAN use keytool Nov 04 04:05:57 but they don't use keytool on their OTA builds Nov 04 04:06:29 sure looked like it. Nov 04 04:06:43 Read the first 3 lines of the CERT.SF file Nov 04 04:06:48 I put together a cheat sheet of all the android shortcut keys. http://docs.google.com/View?docID=ajdrb5gxhbvc_74dr79s8gh Nov 04 04:07:13 Created-By: 1.0 (Android SignApk) Nov 04 04:07:53 * Damm didn't read that file Nov 04 04:07:59 It doesn't do anything magical or special compared to the normal build - but that's the tool they use Nov 04 04:08:00 usually certs are not very readable Nov 04 04:08:11 I dont' want to read it :) Nov 04 04:08:15 hi all, i just got a G1, it says charging, 100% on it, is it charging or charged? Nov 04 04:08:40 orci, is your phone on fire yet? Nov 04 04:08:51 Yes, it will catch fire when it's ready Nov 04 04:08:53 ;) Nov 04 04:09:09 Actually the only difference in the recovery sources between open source release and G1 release is cleaning up copyright headers. Nov 04 04:09:11 since this is the first charge i do not want to cut it early Nov 04 04:09:18 ::is_on_fire() Nov 04 04:09:43 mikez6 - really? I could have sworn that the recovery in the open source explicitly skips over manifest, and *.SF and *.RSA files Nov 04 04:09:55 Damm, i guess i can unplug it no? Nov 04 04:10:09 orci, quite. Nov 04 04:10:17 but I'm postive my phone got pissed at me today when I tried to verify that behavior by tweaking the manifest in a trivial way to break the hash on it Nov 04 04:10:52 RyeBrye: I haven't looked at the code, but the diff output is just adding "The Android Open Source Project" and some different paths in the makefile Nov 04 04:10:52 I'll look into it more and see why I pissed it off if they are functionally the same as the release versions Nov 04 04:11:07 RyeBrye, careful don't want the google MIB to come take you away. Nov 04 04:11:10 :) Nov 04 04:11:15 MCB Nov 04 04:11:16 multi Nov 04 04:11:17 colored Nov 04 04:11:18 balls Nov 04 04:11:25 lol ty DannyB. Nov 04 04:11:27 Well... I was just trying to understand this platform more deeply so I can better appreciate all their hard work Nov 04 04:11:28 :) Nov 04 04:12:01 election time.. jooooot Nov 04 04:12:15 hope all of you are voting ;) Nov 04 04:12:22 * jbq is no US citizen Nov 04 04:12:28 I appreciate the fact it's the most open phone i've ever had the pleasure of using(renting from my company I guess) Nov 04 04:12:32 not just voting, maps.google.com/vote is my 20% project :) Nov 04 04:12:46 ha, nicee Nov 04 04:12:51 <_avatar> hey guys, thanks, used my old phone to clear my sim card contacts and messages. everything seems fine now :) Nov 04 04:13:08 <_avatar> kind of a crappy user experience, seems like i should have been able to do that from my G1 somehow. maybe I don't know what i'm talking about, though. Nov 04 04:13:21 jbq: good, you don't have to make a decision :) Nov 04 04:13:34 we can enjoy all the fun from outside Nov 04 04:13:43 muthu_: do you live in the US? Nov 04 04:13:53 used to, not anymore Nov 04 04:13:58 now live in chennai, india Nov 04 04:14:13 Ah. I'll enjoy the fun from the inside. Nov 04 04:14:20 haha Nov 04 04:14:23 (but still as a spectator) Nov 04 04:14:24 I'm hoping for a better result in 2008, but 2004 pretty much crushed my faith in the US voting public to readily recover from bad decisions ^^ Nov 04 04:14:42 the G1 really doesn't use your sim for contacts (as far as i could gather) Nov 04 04:14:44 if obama doesn't win.. i'll say US is pretty messed up Nov 04 04:15:13 <_avatar> Damm: no, i don't think it does. but it seems like if it shows an error about the sim being full, and bugs you about it constantly, there should be a way to fix it without using another device Nov 04 04:15:30 muthu: I think we're pretty messed up either way. but yes, there's always room to make it worse... Nov 04 04:15:40 muthu: i'd go so far as to say it could provoke a lot of really bad things to happen Nov 04 04:16:00 yeah, but all likely obama wins Nov 04 04:16:20 there's this election history in my local paper.. and it says, democat backed kansas-nebraska act 1854 Nov 04 04:16:51 didn't really know republican party founded by anti-slavery activists Nov 04 04:17:32 history has many interesting twists. Nov 04 04:17:36 1860-1929 - reps win 14 of 18 elections Nov 04 04:18:03 1932-64 - dems win 7 of 9 Nov 04 04:18:27 1968-04 - reps win 7 of 10 Nov 04 04:19:42 looks like reps win by default, unless there's some major crisis coming along Nov 04 04:20:45 There was an interesting poll a few weeks ago in France. At the time, if the French voted, they'd have voted 93% for Obama. Nov 04 04:21:03 yeah, pretty much like the rest of the world ;) Nov 04 04:21:48 why france care ? Nov 04 04:21:50 just by being on this channel, i can see who votes for whom :)) Nov 04 04:21:55 lol Nov 04 04:22:01 as a comparison, in the 2002 French presidential election between a conservative and a fascist, the conservative won by 82% to 18%. Nov 04 04:26:10 discussion between my officemates (neither of which are US citizens): Nov 04 04:26:19 "Is there *anything* you can vote on if you're a permanent resident?" Nov 04 04:26:24 "Yeah, like American Idol." Nov 04 04:26:31 hah Nov 04 04:26:35 haha Nov 04 04:26:40 if you're a permanent resident you can make campaign contributions. Nov 04 04:27:02 jbq: interesting. I didn't know that Nov 04 04:27:03 even aliens can donate Nov 04 04:27:47 as a temporary (non-immigrant) I'm not allowed to donate. Nov 04 04:28:40 does fennec run on android? Nov 04 04:31:15 Anyone want to help me build a quantum computer capable of cracking 2048 bit keys? Nov 04 04:31:19 :) Nov 04 04:31:20 RyeBrye: no Nov 04 04:31:28 RyeBrye: I have a vested interest in that not happening. Nov 04 04:31:43 You have invested in a bank or something? Nov 04 04:31:53 I'd only use it once Nov 04 04:31:55 no, I have keys I would not like cracked. Nov 04 04:32:04 Ok... maybe twice Nov 04 04:32:04 RyeBrye: if your goal is to get Android running on your own device, it'd be cheaper to just build a phone. Nov 04 04:32:09 == jbq Nov 04 04:32:11 Yes, I know Nov 04 04:32:53 It would probably be cheaper to buy all of google's shares than it would be to build a quantum computer capable of crackign 2048 bit encryption Nov 04 04:33:01 unlikely Nov 04 04:33:09 and probably impossible Nov 04 04:33:25 since i believe the number of voting outstanding shares is too small Nov 04 04:33:26 :) Nov 04 04:33:31 well, larry and sergey probably won't sell their shares, and they're worth 10x the voting power Nov 04 04:33:35 right Nov 04 04:33:53 even if you bought all the outstanding shares they would still outvote you Nov 04 04:33:57 ... or you could just license it from them Nov 04 04:34:18 * RyeBrye scrounges for that $104 trillion check he had lying around somewhere.... Nov 04 04:39:23 as jbq said, it would be 100x cheaper to have someone build you a dream that didn't have the boot loader check for signing Nov 04 04:39:32 maybe 100000x Nov 04 04:39:33 :) Nov 04 04:40:06 If you could build a 2048-bit key cracker for the price of 100 phones, someone would have done it already... Nov 04 04:40:19 Arguably, even for 100000x. Nov 04 04:40:35 I read somewhere it was estimated a $1billion computer could do 1024 bit encryption Nov 04 04:40:40 in 5 minutes or something Nov 04 04:40:50 and the NSA probably has one already... Nov 04 04:40:59 if it's larger than the combined budgets of the NSA and other world technical intelligence agencies Nov 04 04:41:06 it's probably not realistic Nov 04 04:41:30 I'll just start trying to guess the hash Nov 04 04:41:32 That will be faster Nov 04 04:41:33 that isn't larger than the nsa budget Nov 04 04:41:33 ;) Nov 04 04:41:37 hth Nov 04 04:41:38 That's why we went for 2048 bits - so that it takes them 10 minutes instead of 5. Nov 04 04:41:44 ;-) Nov 04 04:42:05 DannyB: $1 billion isn't, a machine that can do 2048-bit is Nov 04 04:42:08 I think 2048 was still on the order of many many years Nov 04 04:42:16 unless the NSA has secret algorithmic sauce Nov 04 04:42:24 which they very well may Nov 04 04:42:55 * jbq remembers that the Atari 2600 only had 1024 bits of RAM. Nov 04 04:43:18 the NSA is good at math Nov 04 04:43:22 They just need a really good network and a crapton of crappy computers - each computer has one key it permanently tries - and they just do a classic scatter / gather approach Nov 04 04:43:36 that one computer really feels lucky when it gets BINGO Nov 04 04:43:37 ;) Nov 04 04:43:38 it is rare they bother with brute force crackig anymore Nov 04 04:43:43 they have no need Nov 04 04:44:00 they also produce so much information these days we can't process it fast enough Nov 04 04:44:10 The NSA are probably spitting their milk out as they eavsedrop on this conversation Nov 04 04:44:18 that's the thing Nov 04 04:44:23 this is probably lost in the noise Nov 04 04:44:49 Yeah, unless someone changes their nick to 'bin Laden' and starts speaking arabic you're probably right Nov 04 04:45:18 Man... I was super excited earlier today when I skipped over a line or two of the verify.c in the recovery piece Nov 04 04:45:42 I didn't read where it had the array of public keys passed in and assumed it was just using the public key in the zip file.... which would have made me very happy :) Nov 04 04:45:50 actually the NSA would love the G1 Nov 04 04:45:50 <_avatar> i'm trying to create a nice looking background for my G1. i saved my image as a 8bpp RGB png at 640x480, but i see noticable "banding" artifacts when its displayed on my desktop. it looks fine with "Picture" app, though. Nov 04 04:46:00 because it allows them to easily add high cryto to it Nov 04 04:46:02 The NSA does love it. That's why we can't have root Nov 04 04:46:05 i want a mouse for my g1 Nov 04 04:46:08 :O Nov 04 04:46:11 _avatar: welcome to the wonderful world of 565 displays Nov 04 04:46:11 :) Nov 04 04:46:22 and most of us know that T-Mobile + NSA = *heart* Nov 04 04:46:37 yeah Nov 04 04:46:42 The G1 doesn't use SELinux does it? Nov 04 04:46:44 <_avatar> romainguy_: yeah, i figured it was a product of conversion to 565, but why does it look fine in the Picture app? Nov 04 04:46:48 NSA wouldn't go for that at all Nov 04 04:46:54 T-mobile has an old Motorola Crypto phone that works on T-Mobile... uses CSD to communicate the pubkey. Nov 04 04:46:57 they probably use the slower 565 conversion code path Nov 04 04:47:03 _avatar: you should dither your image in your graphics editor Nov 04 04:47:13 unless you get service from Qwest Nov 04 04:47:17 only GSM cell phone carrier that supports CSD anymore is T-Mobile (major) Nov 04 04:47:25 (that or when the wallpaper is set/loaded a 565 conversion is not made) Nov 04 04:47:25 who is Qwest with now? Verizon? Nov 04 04:47:36 who IIRC was fighting the federal government on something unrelated at the time Nov 04 04:47:45 all your carriers <3 NSA Nov 04 04:48:10 you have nothing to fear from the NSA... when you have the Department of Homeland Security around. Nov 04 04:48:12 Anyone remember that whole clipper chip fiasco? 'Here, everyone - use this crypto.... but don't ask where the keys are' Nov 04 04:48:15 <_avatar> romainguy_: got it, thanks :) Nov 04 04:48:28 hmmm, CSD, here's a trip down memory lane... Nov 04 04:48:30 my dad has a clipper box Nov 04 04:48:38 jbq, T-Mobile still offers CSD Nov 04 04:48:46 infact you get free CSD out with a T-Mobile account Nov 04 04:49:10 so technically your G1 could be used as a modem to dialup to an isp at 9600 baud Nov 04 04:49:10 yay, got my car charger/audio adapter thingy Nov 04 04:49:13 mmm swinging Nov 04 04:49:14 It's free as in minutes, right? Nov 04 04:49:17 first time i got to drive around and listen to five :) Nov 04 04:49:20 jbq, right, minutes. Nov 04 04:49:35 AT&T used to charge 10$/mo for CSD access Nov 04 04:50:00 (well that was orange, i don't recall blue) Nov 04 04:50:17 * Damm had a stint working for a 3rd party company that had contracts with T-Mobile and Cingular/ATT and Verizon Nov 04 04:51:19 I'm going to submit some patches that I would like to see put into the next recovery verifier.c - okay :P Nov 04 04:51:53 Mostly just code cleanup... I think I can speed up the verification by an order of 10x Nov 04 04:51:56 ;) Nov 04 04:55:25 well Nov 04 04:55:32 i now understand why you can't use | more in pterminal Nov 04 04:55:37 duh more's not installed Nov 04 04:55:53 not much is Nov 04 04:56:12 where are the applications stored on the memory? Nov 04 04:56:19 on the left side Nov 04 04:56:22 .. Nov 04 04:56:25 right side! Nov 04 04:56:26 /data/app Nov 04 04:56:39 romainguy_, they stay in .apk format? Nov 04 04:56:41 oh, right - right side... I was thinking my left Nov 04 04:56:41 ;) Nov 04 04:56:45 kinda thought they unpacked Nov 04 04:57:18 if you're gonna play with a shell, might as well do "adb shell" instead of bothering with pterminal (no offense, but it's not quite as, well, friendly). Nov 04 04:57:22 so anyone try and symlink /data/app to their /sdcard/data/app? Nov 04 04:57:28 you *can't* Nov 04 04:57:47 jbq, eh i'm playing. Nov 04 04:57:49 you cannot write in /data/app Nov 04 04:57:54 romainguy_, can you tell me how I can access my String here? http://pastebin.com/m365c8226 Nov 04 04:58:38 I wonder what definition of open google chose to use Nov 04 04:58:44 gambler: (String) msg.obj Nov 04 04:59:03 what is Blocked by block_crash_reports about? Nov 04 04:59:05 open as in the door with 3 armed bouncers standing next to it Nov 04 04:59:05 RyeBrye: the Android OS is open Nov 04 04:59:13 I mean, why block the crash reports? Nov 04 04:59:14 its open, but you cant get in without lots of pain Nov 04 04:59:18 RyeBrye: that doesn't mean you get root access on your G1 Nov 04 04:59:26 ah whatever Nov 04 04:59:35 there's a difference between open and ... 'hack your phone' Nov 04 04:59:38 * geist throws a hissy fit Nov 04 04:59:40 i want root! Nov 04 04:59:45 Yes, but if you google "define: open" - I think the Open definition that it's using is 'not having been filled; "the job is still open"' .... ZING! Nov 04 04:59:48 Android is open enough that people can do non-open devices with it. Nov 04 04:59:52 * languish hands geist a carrot Nov 04 05:00:01 I had to reboot the piece of shit 3 times today when I was out just to get the web browser to work Nov 04 05:00:09 romainguy, thx. wow. I coulda swore I did that. Nov 04 05:00:15 * gambler scratches head Nov 04 05:00:16 well when you run telnetd your id=0 root Nov 04 05:00:24 adb shell gives you id = shell Nov 04 05:00:41 which you can access via telnet, but not via adb shell Nov 04 05:01:07 err you can access /data/app Nov 04 05:01:08 So, I googled block_crash_reports and 0 results. hence I'm asking here. Nov 04 05:01:13 where as you try in adb shell... it fails Nov 04 05:02:49 I'll admit - I DO like the OS a lot - but fighting to get a data connection consistently really blows - and it's not the networks fault Im' pretty sure because one app will work fine while another one will just throw connection errors Nov 04 05:03:14 RyeBrye: file a bug then because I certainly never experienced such a thing Nov 04 05:03:30 romainguy_, I so can access /data/app and write files in there Nov 04 05:03:40 then do it Nov 04 05:03:46 RyeBrye: I get the samething Nov 04 05:03:55 alot of times with maps Nov 04 05:03:55 ShopSavvy - gets images and prices Nov 04 05:03:58 oh geeze no cp Nov 04 05:03:59 Browser - goes apeshit Nov 04 05:04:05 or vice versa Nov 04 05:04:11 cross device link? Nov 04 05:04:12 wow Nov 04 05:04:13 Damm: adbd has write access to /data/app. It needs that for "adb install" to work. Nov 04 05:04:35 mikez6, adb shell says permission denied Nov 04 05:04:46 when I do cd /data/app Nov 04 05:05:10 Although... Android DOES have copy and paste - so maybe I should quit my bitching :) Nov 04 05:05:11 Damm, can you mv? Nov 04 05:05:15 DarkriftX, no Nov 04 05:05:19 # mv /data/app . Nov 04 05:05:19 failed on '/data/app' - Cross-device link Nov 04 05:05:20 Damm: you can use cat or dd to copy files. Nov 04 05:05:33 from /sdcard/data Nov 04 05:05:34 Oh, sorry. actually adb writes the app to /data/local/tmp/ Nov 04 05:05:35 erm Nov 04 05:05:36 jbq, true enough Nov 04 05:05:41 try renaming an app Nov 04 05:05:48 Then the package manager copies it to /data/app Nov 04 05:05:52 i dont think there is touch :( Nov 04 05:06:03 # mv app.money.apk app.moneys.apk Nov 04 05:06:03 # Nov 04 05:06:05 how about chmod? Nov 04 05:06:10 there is no touch Nov 04 05:06:12 Anybody here actually own G1 phone? Nov 04 05:06:16 there is chmod Nov 04 05:06:21 wow, mv worked Nov 04 05:06:24 nice Nov 04 05:06:26 Hiro2: a fair number of people do Nov 04 05:06:27 Hiro2, yes, a few Nov 04 05:06:27 yes Nov 04 05:06:27 this is via telnet? Nov 04 05:06:31 DarkriftX, yes Nov 04 05:06:40 How do I copy pictures from sd card into phone? Nov 04 05:06:47 Damm - is whoami installed? Nov 04 05:07:06 uname -a Nov 04 05:07:07 lol Nov 04 05:07:07 jk Nov 04 05:07:25 uname -a didn't work in pterminal lulz Nov 04 05:07:26 so you can tinker with pterminal? Nov 04 05:07:35 ugh Nov 04 05:07:41 you can't move it to /sdcard Nov 04 05:07:55 i'd have to use yaffs2 Nov 04 05:07:57 whatever that is Nov 04 05:08:16 Oh... interestin Nov 04 05:08:18 "yet another *something* file system 2" ? Nov 04 05:08:23 Damm: are you talking to me? Nov 04 05:08:28 Hiro2, no Nov 04 05:08:46 lol, chgrp -R shell / Nov 04 05:08:50 (dont do it) Nov 04 05:08:56 can anybody tell me how I can copy images from SD card into android phone? Nov 04 05:09:16 DarkriftX, ... Nov 04 05:09:24 languish, dunno ask the google folks Nov 04 05:09:26 i think that would kill your install Nov 04 05:09:28 Hiro2: What do you mean "into phone"? Nov 04 05:09:28 nfi what yaffs2 is Nov 04 05:09:38 Hiro2: The phone stores pictures on the SD card only, I think. Nov 04 05:09:47 Hiro2: It does not ever store them in internal memory. Nov 04 05:09:49 how about chgrp shell Nov 04 05:09:58 so you can try to use it in the standard shell Nov 04 05:09:59 Oh, I'm having a hard time transfering files from old phone into new phone Nov 04 05:10:07 only mkdir and mkfs.msdosfs Nov 04 05:10:09 soo Nov 04 05:10:11 Hiro2: Do you have them on a computer yet? Nov 04 05:10:17 clearly I have nfi how to do mkfs.yaffs2 Nov 04 05:10:23 hmm... Nov 04 05:10:28 however, if you can format your sd card to yaffs2 Nov 04 05:10:28 If you have the pictures on the SD card, the Pictures app should find them Nov 04 05:10:29 can you run stuff off of the sdcard? Nov 04 05:10:31 you can put your apps on the sd card Nov 04 05:10:36 I have 2GB sd card, and old phone doesn't read it, so I was using 1 GB to transfer, then save it to G1 Nov 04 05:10:37 not apps, but shell apps? Nov 04 05:10:42 RyeBrye, yes Nov 04 05:10:54 Hiro2: You can't really do that. You'll need to copy them to a computer. Nov 04 05:10:59 I see Nov 04 05:11:05 How do we watch videos btw? Nov 04 05:11:15 Damm, did that work? Nov 04 05:11:17 aren't there some cool apps built for engineering builds that aren't installed on production ones? dropbear or others come to mind Nov 04 05:11:18 Hiro2: Not quite sure how to encode them, but there's a video player in the market. Nov 04 05:11:25 but I dn't think dropbear would work without root access Nov 04 05:11:28 DarkriftX, nah failure Nov 04 05:11:30 Maybe elinks? Nov 04 05:11:34 ttuttle: or how do i access the sd card? Nov 04 05:11:35 elinks? Nov 04 05:11:35 Oh... it takes input... nm Nov 04 05:11:36 RyeBrye, I have root supposidly Nov 04 05:11:40 what kinda failure? Nov 04 05:11:42 open it i mean? Nov 04 05:11:45 # id Nov 04 05:11:45 uid=0(root) gid=0(root) Nov 04 05:11:46 Hiro2 http://forums.tmonews.com/index.php?topic=3261.0 Nov 04 05:11:52 Hiro2: Plug in the phone over USB, open the status bar, click "USB connected", click "Mount". Nov 04 05:11:56 DarkriftX, dd if=/system/bin/route of=route works Nov 04 05:12:02 but then chmod +x route = bad mode Nov 04 05:12:03 Damm - if you have root, you're my hero Nov 04 05:12:13 * ttuttle has root, but it's on an eng device ;-) Nov 04 05:12:21 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081&page=2 Nov 04 05:12:23 nothing new Nov 04 05:12:27 ttuttle: you say this about 4 times a day :) Nov 04 05:12:33 romainguy_: I know. Nov 04 05:12:37 romainguy_: I'm proud of it =D Nov 04 05:12:56 romainguy_: Plus don't forget that I'm running Android 2.1 beta RC 234! Nov 04 05:13:03 romainguy_: And my phone can shoot lasers! Nov 04 05:13:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAFFS Nov 04 05:13:23 ttuttle: how do i go to status bar? Nov 04 05:13:23 romainguy_: ;-) Nov 04 05:13:30 Hiro2: Just drag it down from the top of the screen. Nov 04 05:13:33 Hiro2: On the phone. Nov 04 05:13:35 ttuttle's the next campus shooter, coming tp CMU this holiday season Nov 04 05:13:39 :| Nov 04 05:13:41 Damm - oh, that is clever... well... given root access you shuold be able to run C applications that just touch whatever you want Nov 04 05:13:44 languish: what?! Nov 04 05:13:49 languish: Oh, lasers. Nov 04 05:13:52 ttuttle with your lasers Nov 04 05:13:55 ttuttle: COOL THANKS Nov 04 05:13:56 languish: lasers are pretty Nov 04 05:13:59 Hiro2: No problem. Nov 04 05:14:02 RyeBrye, no compiler Nov 04 05:14:03 ya they are Nov 04 05:14:07 languish: especially green ones ;-) Nov 04 05:14:13 at least the ones in the visible spectrum Nov 04 05:14:24 languish: yeah Nov 04 05:14:33 interesting Nov 04 05:14:35 using netbsd's libc Nov 04 05:14:50 christos Exp $$NetBSD: ns_name.c,v 1.3 2004/11/07 02:19:49 christos Exp $$NetBSD: ns_parse.c,v 1.2 2004/05/20 20:35:05 christos Exp $$NetBSD: ns_ttl.c,v 1.2 2004/05/20 20:35:05 christos Exp $$NetBSD: ... Nov 04 05:14:52 ttuttle: is it android 2.1? Nov 04 05:15:05 muthu: no, that was a joke Nov 04 05:15:05 not like you need to include a bsd license Nov 04 05:15:11 and that's much lighter then glibc Nov 04 05:15:33 muthu: Most of the time I'm running the same build you guys are, just with engineering features turned on. Sometimes I'm running a newer build, so they can get bugreports before they release it to everyone. Nov 04 05:16:13 Damm - cross compile on your machine Nov 04 05:16:13 so.. Nov 04 05:16:20 damn, im out of ideas Damm Nov 04 05:16:21 ttuttle: thx for clarify Nov 04 05:16:23 RyeBrye, yep Nov 04 05:16:39 DarkriftX, well quite frankly part 1 would be getting a filesystem it liked. Nov 04 05:16:49 ttuttle: can i formatt sd card on google phone? or from windows? Nov 04 05:17:12 Hiro2: They usually come formatted. Nov 04 05:17:13 http://pastebin.com/m47ab95c5 Nov 04 05:17:13 I'm trying to apply a style to a button to set it's size, is this possible or am I on the wrong track? Nov 04 05:17:16 that's the filesystems it supports Nov 04 05:17:20 Hiro2: I'm not sure if the phone can format it, but a computer certainly can. Nov 04 05:17:33 ttuttle, windows, though an sd formatting app should be available at some point Nov 04 05:17:34 all I've managed to do is set the font size, using textSize Nov 04 05:17:53 should it be FAT32 or FAT? Nov 04 05:17:58 Hiro2: FAT32 Nov 04 05:18:39 supports vfat so technically it could do fat16 Nov 04 05:19:25 damnit i want a g1 now lol Nov 04 05:19:36 i wonder if i could transfer txt/pic messages from old phone? Nov 04 05:19:46 Hiro2: Are they on your SIM card? Nov 04 05:19:53 Hmmm, they can be Nov 04 05:20:06 Hiro2: Then yeah, you can read them on the android phone. Nov 04 05:20:08 actually I dont think android imported the ones that were on SIM card Nov 04 05:20:17 Contacts I was able to Nov 04 05:20:18 Hiro2: it won't import them, but you can view them in Messaging. Nov 04 05:20:30 can I import it? or move it to sd? Nov 04 05:20:57 Damm, i dont remember how to give a group root permissions Nov 04 05:20:58 Hiro2: Not sure, I don't have any on my SIM. Nov 04 05:21:05 damm does su work? Nov 04 05:21:15 googlephone is linux? Nov 04 05:21:32 DarkriftX, not found Nov 04 05:21:43 lol, yes Nov 04 05:21:45 there is no chown Nov 04 05:21:52 Hiro2: "Google Phone" is the T-Mobile G1, codenamed the HTC Dream, which runs Android. Android is a platform that includes the Linux kernel and a Google-written virtual machine and framework. Nov 04 05:22:02 Damm, when you login to shell, what is your username? Nov 04 05:22:26 for the last time *sigh* Nov 04 05:22:27 # id Nov 04 05:22:27 uid=0(root) gid=0(root) Nov 04 05:22:32 no Nov 04 05:22:34 normal shell Nov 04 05:22:42 what shell? Nov 04 05:22:47 i know the group is "shell" but what is the username Nov 04 05:22:49 i just telnet ip, and get that Nov 04 05:22:51 adb shell Nov 04 05:22:59 ttutle: is that the same phone you have? Nov 04 05:23:09 root 26 1 724 316 c0049a2c afe0c4cc S /system/bin/sh Nov 04 05:23:28 DarkriftX, next? Nov 04 05:23:30 when you arent root, who are you Nov 04 05:23:55 * Damm sits on DarkriftX. Nov 04 05:24:05 ok Nov 04 05:24:08 Hiro2: Yeah, I have a G1. Nov 04 05:24:14 not sure how else to ask Nov 04 05:24:22 ttuttle: can you teach me how to use this phone? lol Nov 04 05:24:25 what is the username for a normal user on the G1 who does NOT have root Nov 04 05:24:35 Hiro2: What do you need to know? Nov 04 05:24:49 app_34 263 31 103408 12724 ffffffff afe0c824 S src.com.poidio.terminal Nov 04 05:24:52 des that help? Nov 04 05:24:55 everything Nov 04 05:25:00 does* Nov 04 05:25:02 hrmmmm Nov 04 05:25:04 kinda Nov 04 05:25:04 Hiro2: Let's start somewhere. Nov 04 05:25:47 uh that's odd Nov 04 05:25:54 Damm, basically i want to extend root access to the normal shell. but we need to know the username Nov 04 05:25:59 that one might be it, but seems odd Nov 04 05:26:07 I think it varies. Nov 04 05:26:08 ttuttle: can I PM? Nov 04 05:26:16 Hiro2: sure Nov 04 05:26:33 damm try "groups" Nov 04 05:26:36 DarkriftX, http://pastebin.ca/1244617 Nov 04 05:26:42 groups is not found Nov 04 05:26:53 damn Nov 04 05:26:54 taht sux Nov 04 05:27:20 you should expect that Nov 04 05:27:28 Google had no intention for you to have a shell Nov 04 05:27:32 i forget which file has a list of all groups Nov 04 05:27:41 im rusty on my shell commands :S Nov 04 05:27:45 Damm - you want a mkyaffs2image? Nov 04 05:28:03 RyeBrye, I want mkyaffs2 Nov 04 05:28:03 yes Nov 04 05:28:09 so I can format my SD card Yaffs2 Nov 04 05:28:12 cat /etc/passwd and output it to pastebin if you can Nov 04 05:28:13 IN the git, there are a lot of goodies that should be easy to cross compile - I think they might already be cross compiled Nov 04 05:28:18 as part of the make Nov 04 05:28:18 DarkriftX, there is none. Nov 04 05:28:25 really Nov 04 05:28:27 RyeBrye, hrm need to repo sync Nov 04 05:28:40 hrmmmm Nov 04 05:28:56 i wonder if you could edit the permissions file lol Nov 04 05:29:06 no editor ims ure Nov 04 05:29:12 DarkriftX: If you can edit /init.rc, you can pull off lots of stuff. Nov 04 05:29:16 I'll get pico in there :) Nov 04 05:29:46 lemme pull up the emu so i know whats where Nov 04 05:31:23 ooooh this is fun Nov 04 05:31:31 ooooh, forgot Nov 04 05:31:37 permissions are set a different way Nov 04 05:31:38 * RyeBrye takes back everything nasty he ever said abotu Android not being open Nov 04 05:31:45 * DarkriftX finds the update-script file Nov 04 05:33:08 i want vim pls Nov 04 05:33:24 lol Nov 04 05:33:25 ooooh, Damm Nov 04 05:33:27 if you put linux app on yoru sd can you run it? Nov 04 05:33:51 * DarkriftX thinks of something simple :S Nov 04 05:33:52 DarkriftX: Nope, it's mounted noexec. Nov 04 05:34:06 wait, it would have to be compiled for that cpu Nov 04 05:34:16 thats easy ttuttle he has root, he can remount Nov 04 05:34:16 that's how they get you Nov 04 05:34:24 DarkriftX: oh okay Nov 04 05:34:29 Is tar installed on this? Nov 04 05:34:33 wait, how'd he get root? Nov 04 05:34:39 HA HA HA HA HA Nov 04 05:34:40 DarkriftX, i'm 64bit amd64 Nov 04 05:34:42 i thought you couldn't do that on production devices? Nov 04 05:34:45 my goal is to xfer root permissions to the normal user Nov 04 05:34:47 that is so far from ARM it's not even funny. Nov 04 05:34:53 Oh, easy. Compile su. Nov 04 05:34:57 no tar. Nov 04 05:34:57 heh ttuttle he figured something out Nov 04 05:35:09 But the hard bit is getting the su permissions set. Nov 04 05:35:09 I'm root on mine now too Nov 04 05:35:10 ttuttle, nope, no su required. Nov 04 05:35:12 RyeBrye: Wait, you have root? Nov 04 05:35:14 yeah Nov 04 05:35:14 Damm: Oh? Nov 04 05:35:14 I realize it will be fixed on RC30 Nov 04 05:35:17 RyeBrye: Hacked? Nov 04 05:35:19 yeah Damm would take a long cross compile too Nov 04 05:35:20 Not yet Nov 04 05:35:22 but for now .. Nov 04 05:35:27 RyeBrye: I mean, were you *supposed* to have root? Nov 04 05:35:31 Nope Nov 04 05:35:33 Not supposed to Nov 04 05:35:37 do NOT let any OTA install Nov 04 05:35:38 RyeBrye: Nice. How'd you do it? Nov 04 05:35:51 once we figure it out we can fix the OTA's :) Nov 04 05:35:53 Damm told me how Nov 04 05:35:59 Damm: How's it work? Nov 04 05:36:01 ttuttle, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081&page=2 Nov 04 05:36:08 Oh, jeez - like the OTA's deploy anyway Nov 04 05:36:14 pterminal... cd system enter... cd bin ... enter Nov 04 05:36:15 telnetd Nov 04 05:36:20 telnet to your phone's ip Nov 04 05:36:23 RC29 will take until Nov 12 to push out Nov 04 05:36:25 (presuming you are on wifi of course) Nov 04 05:36:29 nice Nov 04 05:36:36 you get dropped to a shell Nov 04 05:36:39 Is there a host file? Nov 04 05:36:40 id = 0 Nov 04 05:36:45 That'll get fixed, I assume. Nov 04 05:36:45 RyeBrye, yeah it only has localhost Nov 04 05:36:52 yes Nov 04 05:36:55 ttuttle, oh i bet telnetd won't be around Nov 04 05:37:01 * ttuttle checks if his device has it. Nov 04 05:37:02 well... I'm going to add the google update server to my hostfile and no more phoning home... :) Nov 04 05:37:12 ttuttle, that's why i'm going to copy telnetd to /sdcard Nov 04 05:37:13 so anyone here know how to give the "shell" group "root"'s permissions? Nov 04 05:37:13 RyeBrye: heh Nov 04 05:37:15 just encase :) Nov 04 05:37:15 ive never tried that before Nov 04 05:37:23 Damm: Check the permissions on it first Nov 04 05:37:37 Damm: If it's suid, then you can't restore it without root. Nov 04 05:37:42 finally... a nice perk for the early adopters :) Nov 04 05:37:44 Damm, get the apk file for me Nov 04 05:37:44 i need it :) Nov 04 05:37:45 ttuttle, it's not suid. Nov 04 05:37:54 I bet the guy who put telnetd on these phones is being tied to the whipping post as we speak Nov 04 05:37:54 Damm: how does it give you a root shell then? I'm confused. Nov 04 05:37:56 that's the weird part. Nov 04 05:38:05 i was just getting VERY dissapointed in the g1 Nov 04 05:38:06 It just does Nov 04 05:38:08 It must have a way to become root. Nov 04 05:38:09 now its geting exciting Nov 04 05:38:18 ttuttle, pterminal seems to run telnetd as root Nov 04 05:38:21 I can't stop giggling like a school girl, this is seriosuly fun Nov 04 05:38:21 Hmm. Nov 04 05:38:24 How, and why? Nov 04 05:38:26 # ls -l telnetd Nov 04 05:38:27 * ttuttle must know! Nov 04 05:38:27 -rwxr-xr-x root shell 9752 2008-08-01 05:00 telnetd Nov 04 05:38:33 hmm Nov 04 05:38:36 RyeBrye++ Nov 04 05:38:40 I didn't do it Nov 04 05:38:44 I was trying to do other things Nov 04 05:38:46 RyeBrye: no, I mean the giggling bit ;-) Nov 04 05:38:48 Oh Nov 04 05:38:48 yeah Nov 04 05:38:54 and they said ptermintal was crap!! Nov 04 05:38:57 :) Nov 04 05:39:08 I bet you could do it from adb terminal as well though Nov 04 05:39:13 or adb shell that is Nov 04 05:39:15 nope Nov 04 05:39:19 adb shell = uid = shell Nov 04 05:39:22 ahhh Nov 04 05:39:23 telnet = uid = 0 Nov 04 05:39:23 somewhere there is a file with the users listed Nov 04 05:39:40 No, I mean - you could start telenetd from adb shell, can't you? Nov 04 05:39:42 DarkriftX, no find, no more, nor less. Nov 04 05:39:47 OMFG Nov 04 05:39:48 RyeBrye, hrm try? Nov 04 05:39:53 found the certs1 Nov 04 05:39:55 in /security there are 2 zips Nov 04 05:39:57 download those lol Nov 04 05:39:59 Yep, copied off :) Nov 04 05:40:01 DarkriftX, i saw those. Nov 04 05:40:06 put em on my sd card. Nov 04 05:40:10 nice Nov 04 05:40:16 The recovery mode has the public keys compiled into it Nov 04 05:40:20 i thought we would have to search like crazy for those Nov 04 05:40:20 so changing those wont influence it Nov 04 05:40:28 didnt think they would be one subdir deep Nov 04 05:40:31 those aren't the private keys, right? just public certs? Nov 04 05:40:38 RyeBrye, prolly public Nov 04 05:40:42 there is a OTAKEYS.zip Nov 04 05:40:51 erm Nov 04 05:40:54 otacerts.zip Nov 04 05:41:02 the recovery includes a file called "keys.inc" which has one of the strangest formats I've seen for defining the keys Nov 04 05:41:14 Archive: otacerts.zip testing: releasekey.x509.pem OK Nov 04 05:41:38 I'm going to start cross compiling like a mad man so I can get tar and gz on this so I can just back up the whole thing to my sdcard Nov 04 05:41:45 I guess I don't need gz Nov 04 05:41:49 cacerts is just CA's Nov 04 05:42:10 Is .apk a full program, or just for use with the emulator? Nov 04 05:42:20 apk is a full program Nov 04 05:42:26 its an archive Nov 04 05:42:28 * RyeBrye notices the full-time google people have gotten surprisingly quiet Nov 04 05:42:35 right that. Nov 04 05:42:35 how do you get it on your phone? Nov 04 05:42:46 mattgyver83, from browser, or market. Nov 04 05:42:47 RyeBrye: lol, what do you want us to say? Nov 04 05:42:55 :) Nov 04 05:43:02 I downloaded via browser, but i cant figure out how to install, or find it on the phone Nov 04 05:43:07 there's nothing to say, I didn't gain squat. Nov 04 05:43:17 mattgyver83, it's sitting on your sd card, you just tap on it Nov 04 05:43:21 after it's done downloading Nov 04 05:43:26 ensure you enable 'allow unsigned installs' Nov 04 05:43:39 it's under settings and software. Nov 04 05:43:45 (or applications i forget) Nov 04 05:44:08 Do you mean unknown sources? Nov 04 05:44:13 yeah Nov 04 05:44:22 I had that checked, now i just need to find it on my SD you say Nov 04 05:44:25 sorry... brain was elsewhere. Nov 04 05:44:32 go to the market and pickup android file manager Nov 04 05:44:44 That would explain it, thanks let me try that Nov 04 05:44:50 or glance Nov 04 05:44:52 Damm ... Glance!!! Nov 04 05:44:55 :) Nov 04 05:45:02 michaelnovakjr_, it was coming damn you! Nov 04 05:45:08 I just had to cd /data/app to remember the name Nov 04 05:45:16 :) Nov 04 05:45:35 is glance better? Nov 04 05:45:39 yes Nov 04 05:45:39 much Nov 04 05:45:42 Okay, ill get that Nov 04 05:45:47 :) thanks Nov 04 05:46:29 I heart my new g1, i can tell i wont be able to live without this thing Nov 04 05:46:45 cant wait to brick.. Nov 04 05:47:09 hi i'm not going to root my g1 Nov 04 05:47:12 if that's ok. Nov 04 05:47:56 that's perfectly fine. Nov 04 05:47:59 any linux guru's here? Nov 04 05:48:12 yes Nov 04 05:48:14 need more ideas on how to give the group "shell" roots permissions Nov 04 05:48:52 ok... maybe now we should tell the Google folks it has just been an elaborate april fools! (early) - no need to change anything! :) Nov 04 05:48:57 oh that's neat... /data/tombstone Nov 04 05:49:01 has your crash dumps Nov 04 05:49:09 no wonder my phone was full ;) Nov 04 05:49:11 lol Nov 04 05:49:38 DarkriftX, be a man... install pterminal Nov 04 05:49:48 You know you want to Nov 04 05:49:51 no g1 :( Nov 04 05:49:54 or id be doing it Nov 04 05:49:59 then wth you doing here? Nov 04 05:50:15 Does the g1 use a specific outgoing port, i think my firewall is blocking the download Nov 04 05:50:16 im always the first to test new roms on my phones, ive bricked plenty Nov 04 05:50:20 I wonder if T-mobile will set the record for fastest OTA update tomorrow morning :) Nov 04 05:50:32 RyeBrye, no, they can't handle it. Nov 04 05:50:40 block it RyeBrye lol Nov 04 05:50:41 they can only OTA so many in a day without overloading Nov 04 05:50:41 Google's servers are the ones handling it Nov 04 05:50:48 yes and no Nov 04 05:50:49 It doesn't go OTA Nov 04 05:50:52 it goes from Google Nov 04 05:50:52 T-Mobile is sending it. Nov 04 05:51:14 the "OTA" is Sidekick Technology Nov 04 05:51:16 Oh, right Nov 04 05:51:21 aka Danger Nov 04 05:51:28 which Google has a few danger folks in it's ranks Nov 04 05:51:32 (in the android team) Nov 04 05:52:14 RyeBrye, do me a favor and replace logo.rle Nov 04 05:52:26 dd if=logo.rle of=/sdcard/logo.rle Nov 04 05:52:38 then replace it, and dd if=/sdcard/logo.rle of=/logo.rle Nov 04 05:52:43 reboot, and watch your work. Nov 04 05:52:53 is this some kind of college prank? Nov 04 05:53:03 i'm being serious Nov 04 05:53:10 logo.rle is either your android logo, or T-Mobile logo Nov 04 05:53:11 find out Nov 04 05:54:06 hah, rle Nov 04 05:54:13 swetland couldn't even come up with a decent image format Nov 04 05:54:18 use TGA if you want RLE Nov 04 05:54:25 he's such a poser Nov 04 05:54:41 i'm going to bed... RyeBrye is going to be busy for awhile Nov 04 05:54:42 clearly Nov 04 05:54:52 gotta vote and make a difference Nov 04 05:54:54 Actually, that's not Android code.... Nov 04 05:54:54 or something Nov 04 05:55:05 jbq: HTC is a bunch of posers Nov 04 05:55:08 Damm, now i can see the file, however i still cant install it. Nov 04 05:55:10 hows that Nov 04 05:55:19 mattgyver83, why not? Nov 04 05:55:21 geist: that's your opinion Nov 04 05:55:25 hah Nov 04 05:55:49 rle, sheesh Nov 04 05:55:57 Damm - /logo.rle: cannot open for write: Read-only file system Nov 04 05:56:02 Do I have to mount something rw? Nov 04 05:56:14 dont know, when i select it, nothing happens. Nov 04 05:56:16 kinda thought / would be rw. Nov 04 05:56:17 I don't want to share my opinion, otherwise I feel like I only have half an opinion. Nov 04 05:56:31 Wait... i installed glance, i cant install the .apk for the other program Nov 04 05:56:51 * Damm & Nov 04 05:56:57 jbq: well, actually i just want to insult swetland to get him to quit being a recluse Nov 04 05:57:17 so wait, someone got root access over telnet? Nov 04 05:57:50 geist: Don't be mean to swetland. He's awesome. Nov 04 05:58:01 ttuttle: he beat me at Magic the other day Nov 04 05:58:07 so i'm a little grouchy Nov 04 05:58:09 geist: ... Nov 04 05:58:13 yeah, but being root in Android right now is like being Prom King in a Russian Folk dance - you know you are cool, but have no idea what the hell to do with yourself Nov 04 05:58:18 it's not quite the same as normal linux Nov 04 05:58:19 lol Nov 04 05:58:29 lol, i wonder if we killed the permissions service what would happen Nov 04 05:58:33 service list Nov 04 05:58:41 shows permissions as a service Nov 04 05:58:51 RyeBrye: does it allow access to /data ? Nov 04 05:58:58 thats my main interest atm :P Nov 04 05:59:02 ryebrye still, sounds promising Nov 04 05:59:04 Hell yes :) Nov 04 05:59:10 :D Nov 04 05:59:12 I just made a "foo" directory in /data Nov 04 05:59:14 just for fun Nov 04 05:59:17 now I'll delete it Nov 04 05:59:18 just for fun Nov 04 05:59:23 just like that Nov 04 05:59:27 like you just dont care Nov 04 05:59:29 /data/app shows up? with all files in it? Nov 04 05:59:38 yep Nov 04 05:59:44 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081&page=2 Nov 04 05:59:48 ugh, awesome Nov 04 06:00:01 hey Gary what thinkpad do you own? Nov 04 06:00:37 it lists off a bunch of apk files Nov 04 06:00:42 x31 Nov 04 06:00:46 in /data/app Nov 04 06:00:53 huh Nov 04 06:01:01 SQLite files are there? Nov 04 06:01:12 omg Nov 04 06:01:15 those are my main interest atm :) Nov 04 06:01:32 is pterminal on the market? Nov 04 06:01:46 yeah Nov 04 06:01:49 Does this mean Disconnect is going to shut up for a while? :-) Nov 04 06:01:54 I hope so Nov 04 06:01:57 :) Nov 04 06:02:02 /data/system/packages.xml seems to be a goldmine Nov 04 06:02:06 wish we could edit this stuff Nov 04 06:02:18 you can't :( ? Nov 04 06:02:23 we can Nov 04 06:02:27 why can't we? Nov 04 06:02:39 how? you got a text editor on there? Nov 04 06:02:49 well, i guess you coudl downlaod it, edit and reupload Nov 04 06:03:01 well that - or I could just cross compile an editor Nov 04 06:03:17 do it! Nov 04 06:03:30 are you talking about the SDK or the source? Nov 04 06:03:31 what's the lightest editor? nano? Nov 04 06:03:36 groups, passwd and an editor lol Nov 04 06:03:58 neither geoff_ Nov 04 06:03:58 yeah Nov 04 06:03:58 nano is good Nov 04 06:03:58 nano FTW Nov 04 06:04:29 ack I can't find pterminals apk Nov 04 06:04:57 did they pull it? Nov 04 06:05:18 searched for pterm, nothing Nov 04 06:05:25 the search sucks - search for pterminal Nov 04 06:05:26 oh, and grep lol Nov 04 06:05:30 okay Nov 04 06:05:44 regex is v. hard, google Nov 04 06:05:51 :) Nov 04 06:05:52 yeah that worked :/ Nov 04 06:06:14 They outsource their search for the market apps to Ask.com apparently ;) Nov 04 06:06:24 haha Nov 04 06:06:30 anyone notice the gmail app is slower than gmail in the android browser ? Nov 04 06:06:35 ionstorm: No. Nov 04 06:07:14 we need to find out the standard adb shells username Nov 04 06:07:17 hmm, it takes 30 secs to send an email within the app for me over 100mbit wifi Nov 04 06:07:20 that app_xx didnt look right Nov 04 06:07:27 DarkriftX: it's not standard, I think. Nov 04 06:07:34 someone log into the G1 using normal adb shell Nov 04 06:07:36 ionstorm: there's no such thing as 100mbit wifi. Nov 04 06:07:41 DarkriftX: hold on Nov 04 06:07:52 i have 108mb wifi ttuttle Nov 04 06:07:53 well 100mbit connection over 54M wifi Nov 04 06:07:54 haha awesome, working Nov 04 06:07:55 lol Nov 04 06:07:58 lol Nov 04 06:08:12 DarkriftX: that's great, but the G1 doesn't support it. Nov 04 06:08:19 DarkriftX: or, rather, it's proprietary. Nov 04 06:08:23 of course not Nov 04 06:08:31 lol Nov 04 06:08:34 I believe it runs as user "shell". Nov 04 06:08:47 i thought that was the group name :( Nov 04 06:08:56 i dont know how to give a group roots permissions Nov 04 06:09:05 dunno Nov 04 06:10:27 you can't Nov 04 06:10:54 ok, we need su compiled lol Nov 04 06:10:57 and we need roots pw Nov 04 06:11:06 so and passwd lol Nov 04 06:11:07 doesn't su install on the dev builds? Nov 04 06:11:13 s/so/su/ Nov 04 06:11:13 DarkriftX meant: su and passwd lol Nov 04 06:11:22 whoa Nov 04 06:11:27 thanks infobot Nov 04 06:11:27 DarkriftX: sure thing Nov 04 06:11:35 lol! Nov 04 06:11:46 * DarkriftX pets infobot Nov 04 06:11:58 is infobot a bot? Nov 04 06:12:10 s/bot/woman/ Nov 04 06:12:11 RyeBrye meant: is infowoman a bot? Nov 04 06:12:19 thanks infobot! Nov 04 06:12:19 RyeBrye: pas de quoi Nov 04 06:12:43 so... android RAZR, is this good or very bad? Nov 04 06:12:49 bad Nov 04 06:12:52 badmuch? Nov 04 06:12:54 geoff_: bad Nov 04 06:12:55 more annoying as shit comments on market Nov 04 06:12:55 <_avatar> romainguy_: out of curiosity, what do you use to dither wallpaper images for android? i found depthdither, which seems to work pretty well Nov 04 06:13:05 Gary|thinkpad: /me wants a "destroy user" button for those users. Nov 04 06:13:09 I use a plugin called 565 for Photoshop Nov 04 06:13:12 "LOL WTF THis iS USELESS WAT IS A TERMINAL" Nov 04 06:13:22 Gary|thinkpad: idiots Nov 04 06:13:37 it completely fucks up the rating system Nov 04 06:13:38 url for one of those? Nov 04 06:13:48 porn will be #1, useful shit will be last Nov 04 06:13:49 etc Nov 04 06:14:03 Gary : what do you mean annoying comments? Nov 04 06:14:03 hola romainguy Nov 04 06:14:05 <_avatar> romainguy_: thanks, i'll look into it. is it free? Nov 04 06:14:10 yep Nov 04 06:14:13 geoff_: Have you looked at the market? Nov 04 06:14:17 <_avatar> great :) Nov 04 06:14:26 checking now... Nov 04 06:14:32 90% of the commenters are complete dipshits. Nov 04 06:14:39 is there a way to see it from a browser w/o a g1? Nov 04 06:14:55 _avatar: http://www.telegraphics.com.au/sw/ Nov 04 06:14:59 hm... I think I now regret making clean and setting up my local build to build a G1 release build :) Nov 04 06:15:04 heh Nov 04 06:15:11 I've got to go set up a generic build so I can get those goodies built again Nov 04 06:15:30 can you check the market without a G1? Nov 04 06:15:32 <_avatar> romainguy_: thanks! :) Nov 04 06:15:39 np Nov 04 06:15:49 Damm, chown does exist Nov 04 06:15:58 its in init.rc Nov 04 06:16:02 chown system system /sys/kernel/ipv4/tcp_rmem_min Nov 04 06:16:24 is there any way to view the market apps/comments from a browser w/o a g1? Nov 04 06:16:40 _avatar: also, use Photoshop's Save For Web option, to minimize the size of the assets (even for PNG for apps) Nov 04 06:16:44 we heard you the first time. Nov 04 06:16:47 it strips out keywords, color profiles, etc. Nov 04 06:18:18 is this a typo: mkdir /data/misc 01771 system misc Nov 04 06:19:19 <_avatar> romainguy_: oh, thanks, nice tip. i didn't know that. Nov 04 06:19:32 it's especially important with icons Nov 04 06:19:54 for instance with my Photoshop CS3, if I save a 32x32 grayscale icon in PNG, it takes 72 KB on disk Nov 04 06:20:02 if I use Save for Web, it takes only 4 KB Nov 04 06:20:07 I've got to rebuild a clean version of this, so it will be a while Nov 04 06:20:13 * romainguy_ slaps color profiles Nov 04 06:20:16 im lost, chown seems to be missing, but chown is in init.rc Nov 04 06:20:24 DarkriftX: chown is internal to init. Nov 04 06:20:31 DarkriftX: There may not be a chown binary. Nov 04 06:20:38 ahh Nov 04 06:20:41 jsherman: not that I've seen Nov 04 06:20:46 so we would have to edit the init.rc first Nov 04 06:20:48 ahh - so we just need to set up our chowning in init :) Nov 04 06:20:51 romainguy_: it can also be important to dither gradients as otherwise they'll get bands in 16bpp. Nov 04 06:20:59 chown that mofo Nov 04 06:21:01 romainguy_: super annoying! Nov 04 06:21:05 ralpht: I know :) Nov 04 06:21:08 *but* Nov 04 06:21:12 do not dither ninepatches Nov 04 06:21:13 i wish i had $400 right now Nov 04 06:21:18 id have a g1 in 2 hours Nov 04 06:21:19 or bitmaps that will be stretched on screen Nov 04 06:21:22 DarkriftX: heh Nov 04 06:21:25 Yeah, you want to get a G1 fast Nov 04 06:21:27 sucks being poor Nov 04 06:21:36 before they fix this shit Nov 04 06:21:37 before they start selling them with RC30+ installed Nov 04 06:21:43 if they fixed it before i bought it, id return it Nov 04 06:23:38 fixed what? Nov 04 06:23:39 dropbear supports scp, right? Nov 04 06:23:40 i missed it Nov 04 06:23:48 this method of getting root Nov 04 06:24:00 someone left a telnetd on there... woops... and it's the shortbus ride to root Nov 04 06:24:09 oh wow Nov 04 06:24:17 lol@shortbus Nov 04 06:24:34 I should go buy another one for my wife tomorrow Nov 04 06:24:43 lol Nov 04 06:25:00 how does telnetd help? Nov 04 06:25:05 does the root account not have a pw? Nov 04 06:25:07 it runs as ROOT! Nov 04 06:25:13 So you just telnet in and... voila! Nov 04 06:25:17 sweet Nov 04 06:25:27 so you can telnet to it over wifi? Nov 04 06:25:29 yuep Nov 04 06:25:56 pterminal lets you start telnetd - but I bet adb shell would work as well - I haven't tried it Nov 04 06:26:02 no wonder they were laughing at us for not rooting it sooner Nov 04 06:26:20 i bet romainguy knew about this :@ Nov 04 06:26:26 I doubt it Nov 04 06:26:26 him and the rest of them Nov 04 06:26:40 they sat their laughing their asses off Nov 04 06:26:41 well, maybe Nov 04 06:26:56 they said they expected it rooted the first day Nov 04 06:26:57 wait wtf, you can get root just by telneting to it? i thought the default services were pretty locked down, like if you nmap someones device Nov 04 06:27:03 one of them did, dont remember which Nov 04 06:27:08 you have to start telnetd first Nov 04 06:27:15 lol umdk1d3 apparently not Nov 04 06:27:23 RyeBrye: oh ic, so its not running by default Nov 04 06:27:24 telnetd doesn't run by default Nov 04 06:27:25 wow, cool Nov 04 06:27:30 I'm in over wifi Nov 04 06:27:34 you have to start it, and you have to tell your screen not to go to sleep... etc. Nov 04 06:27:51 RyeBrye: what permission does an app need to start telnetd? Nov 04 06:27:58 dunno Nov 04 06:28:00 pterminal can do it Nov 04 06:28:47 ls -R / > /sdcard/files.log Nov 04 06:28:50 sweet Nov 04 06:29:09 spikebike - you in now? Nov 04 06:29:12 ya Nov 04 06:29:39 not surprisingly - most of the stuff is the same as what you see built in the git source Nov 04 06:29:43 question is how do we prevent from getting locked out again Nov 04 06:29:51 I'm jsut goign to block any OTA updates Nov 04 06:30:08 so RyeBrye: download pterminal, start telnetd, telnet in from desktop, is that all? Nov 04 06:30:10 I might resize the /cache so it's too small to even receive one if one snuck through! :P Nov 04 06:30:15 DarkriftX - yes Nov 04 06:30:21 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081&page=2 Nov 04 06:30:30 gonna post this on my forum Nov 04 06:30:33 lots of ppl wanting this Nov 04 06:30:48 Be sure to put a big caveat emptor on there Nov 04 06:30:57 lol, of course Nov 04 06:30:59 you can really fuck your device up Nov 04 06:31:03 WARNING MAY CAUSE DEATH Nov 04 06:31:12 TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY Nov 04 06:32:05 * RyeBrye suddenly feels hypocritical for not wanting everyone to know how to do this... Nov 04 06:32:26 lol Nov 04 06:32:30 woot. that was easy Nov 04 06:32:34 more ppl who know means more ppl working on it Nov 04 06:32:38 Yeah, I know Nov 04 06:32:39 (using the devtools terminal rather than pterminal) Nov 04 06:32:48 Obra - adb shell worked as well? Nov 04 06:32:50 ppl who know more about linux then i do will be useful Nov 04 06:33:04 RyeBrye: it didn't for me, but I may have messed up the timing Nov 04 06:33:06 No, by all means - tell people... But the part of me that cringes is funny... Nov 04 06:33:06 also ppl who actaully have a g1 lol Nov 04 06:33:20 because I'm sure that's how the google people feel... Nov 04 06:33:58 i would just like to say that the new ConnectBot app in the market is freakin awesome Nov 04 06:34:06 it was updated? Nov 04 06:34:11 stopped my walmart today, no G1's :-P Nov 04 06:34:26 umm i dunno but it wasn't in the market before today (i didn't see it at least) Nov 04 06:34:29 either that or it was a really productive booze run and not much else. Nov 04 06:35:00 RyeBrye, can you dcc me the pterminal apk file? Nov 04 06:35:00 what does 'monkey' in /system/bin do? Nov 04 06:35:12 monkey is a testing app Nov 04 06:35:12 try it RyeBrye Nov 04 06:35:12 RyeBrye its for testing Nov 04 06:35:13 DarkriftX - I don't have dcc Nov 04 06:35:14 it's in the emulator Nov 04 06:35:15 and documented Nov 04 06:35:22 it just generates streams of input events Nov 04 06:35:24 Cool Nov 04 06:35:28 like a million monkeys banging on your device Nov 04 06:35:47 we have a lab with device being monkeyed day and night for each build for each commit :) Nov 04 06:35:50 That's like half load then compared to my apish banging :) Nov 04 06:35:51 devices Nov 04 06:36:07 That's awesome Nov 04 06:36:18 PETA will sue Nov 04 06:36:38 you'll have to change it to free-range-monkey for the next release ;) Nov 04 06:36:40 and let me tell you Nov 04 06:36:44 I HATE the monkeys Nov 04 06:36:56 I had to fix bugs that were freakin' impossible to reproduce manually Nov 04 06:37:11 it would take an hour to figure out how the hell the monkeys were causing the bug Nov 04 06:37:18 RyeBrye, pm Nov 04 06:37:25 no logs romainguy? Nov 04 06:37:36 logs of what? Nov 04 06:37:48 the monkeys log everything they do Nov 04 06:37:58 I was a monkey once a while ago Nov 04 06:38:00 but when they fail after 20 000 events... Nov 04 06:38:08 romainguy_: Those are always fun ;-) Nov 04 06:38:18 and sometimes it was stuff that was physically impossible to do :) Nov 04 06:38:28 I beta tested some software - and I woudl find some weird bugs like "if you command-click 100 times on the top left corner and then drag the mouse to the right it crashes the app" Nov 04 06:38:32 like press "1" while pressing the menu key while the screen is opening Nov 04 06:38:39 Wow Nov 04 06:38:39 weird Nov 04 06:38:48 obra how do you alunch it from the devtools terminal? Nov 04 06:38:54 and since to press 1 you need to have the keyboard open... Nov 04 06:39:05 or the monkeys would trigger things that are humanly impossible Nov 04 06:39:11 can anyone dcc me the pterminal apk file? Nov 04 06:39:22 yeah I think so Nov 04 06:39:25 like manager to press two keys on each side of the keyboard before the device finishes running a couple lines of code :) Nov 04 06:39:25 pressing every other key simultaneously :) Nov 04 06:39:25 exactly where is it? Nov 04 06:39:45 lol romainguy sounds like fun! Nov 04 06:39:52 That's cool that you have such a thorough QA as part of the build Nov 04 06:40:05 I'm on a smaller team where I work, and we just use some of the annoying people as our monkeys Nov 04 06:40:07 "here, go test this" Nov 04 06:40:15 Monkey is great because, just like "my code's compiling", it's a great excuse to go grab a snack. Nov 04 06:40:28 Also, interns make good monkeys. Nov 04 06:40:30 I thought at Google they brougth you snacks :) Nov 04 06:40:42 RyeBrye: No, but they're within 150 feet at all times, I believe. Nov 04 06:40:45 Oh, ok Nov 04 06:40:47 they make us get our own snacks! Nov 04 06:40:49 it's horrible Nov 04 06:40:57 RyeBrye: I was about 10 feet from a micro-kitchen, which was great but meant I ate too much. Nov 04 06:40:58 You should look for a place with better working conditions! Nov 04 06:40:59 have to walk all the way to a minikitchen Nov 04 06:41:06 Microsoft will deliver your lunch to your office... Nov 04 06:41:09 ...just sayin'... Nov 04 06:41:18 microsoft also believes in actual closed offices Nov 04 06:41:21 (Personally I think it's a horrible idea, as lunch is a wonderful break and social time.) Nov 04 06:41:38 which is one thing I'll give them over everywhere I've ever worked Nov 04 06:41:40 Yeah, when I interviewed with MS two things struck me as interesting. Nov 04 06:41:52 so i was wondering... has anybody done any apps using GPS yet? I've got some nifty ideas... like publish your location automatically to jabber, and have all your friends positions viewable on a map Nov 04 06:41:53 ttuttle: I actually preferred working in downtown PA to at google Nov 04 06:41:57 and geotagging and cool stuff Nov 04 06:41:59 anybody done any of that yet? Nov 04 06:42:00 walking somewhere for lunch was always nice Nov 04 06:42:01 1: They give people little 2" by 2" cubes for every patent they are repsonsible for with a big "Thanks" Nov 04 06:42:23 wasabi: I wrote a tiny app that just pushes my location to a website. Nov 04 06:42:30 and 2: The offices are based entirely on seniority in the company - not position... so in theory a new VP level guy would be in a crappy internal office, but a guy who had been there for 10 years would be in a nice corner office Nov 04 06:42:44 RyeBrye: heh, nice. Nov 04 06:42:48 there's a publish location to an email app Nov 04 06:42:54 Everyone I interviewed with that day had at least 4 or 5 cubes Nov 04 06:43:01 ... they have a lot of patents there Nov 04 06:43:06 spikebike: I don't trust anyone else's app with access to my location + internet. Nov 04 06:43:13 Man. I'd really like an android phone. Just not a t mobile one. Nov 04 06:43:18 I haven't checked, maybe it's opensource Nov 04 06:43:22 Ah, walking to the microkitchen... Nov 04 06:43:31 brb Nov 04 06:43:59 it's past my bedtime Nov 04 06:44:16 shame on you for doing interesting stuff while i'm supposed to be sleeping Nov 04 06:44:18 If I wanted to add some shell tools to my emulator build, would it be a pretty simple thing to just put them in the external directory and edit the makefiles? Nov 04 06:44:34 like say I wanted to have pico available in the shell in the emulator? Nov 04 06:45:05 are the apk files in /data/app usable for instalation? Nov 04 06:45:12 or are they modified somehow Nov 04 06:45:18 They appear exploded Nov 04 06:45:52 nevermind Nov 04 06:45:56 they don't appear exploded Nov 04 06:46:46 RyeBrye, is pterminal src.com.poidio.terminal.apk Nov 04 06:47:00 yes, it appears it is Nov 04 06:47:03 k Nov 04 06:51:09 So has anybody managed to figure out how to get custom firmware or whatever onto the htc dream? Nov 04 06:51:20 no, but I'm not too worried about it now Nov 04 06:51:33 shouldn't be brain surgery now Nov 04 06:51:54 dunno Nov 04 06:52:01 what (if any) binaries are signed? Nov 04 06:52:12 The installer verifies the update package Nov 04 06:52:15 Are there signed binaries? How are they even checked. Nov 04 06:52:17 then it installs it Nov 04 06:52:34 AFAIK there is no runtime checking of the stuff - but I may be wrong Nov 04 06:52:45 Has anybody rooted it yet? Nov 04 06:52:56 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081&page=2 Nov 04 06:52:57 Like, I don't know much about the platform. Nov 04 06:53:08 Are you forced to write in Dalvik stuff, or can you get to the Linux? Nov 04 06:53:15 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081&page=2 Nov 04 06:53:16 :P Nov 04 06:53:19 reading Nov 04 06:53:35 I'm trying to pipe down about it... I think it rubs the people who have worked on this for the past few years the wrong way Nov 04 06:53:44 why does telnet run as root? Nov 04 06:53:48 it doesn't look suid? Nov 04 06:53:52 Google loves us? Nov 04 06:53:58 Well, I'd like to at least get into it, and figure out the closed parts. Nov 04 06:54:15 The closed parts are available without getting into it Nov 04 06:54:23 I'm more interested in figuring out how to get a plain distro running on it. Nov 04 06:54:26 you can extract them from the phone and disassemble once they are back there Nov 04 06:54:34 yeah, that would be interesting Nov 04 06:54:40 yay irc on my g1 :) Nov 04 06:54:47 And then get the android specific pieces running on a plain distro Nov 04 06:54:48 fcirk_phone - what client? Nov 04 06:54:51 dialer, ui, etc. Nov 04 06:55:03 ircii using connectbot Nov 04 06:55:06 I dunno... I like their kernel stack etc Nov 04 06:55:12 * ttuttle uses irssi. Nov 04 06:55:15 I'm just going to throw a couple more pieces in there Nov 04 06:55:31 I desire a normal dpkg based system. Nov 04 06:55:33 like i guess im on my linux machinr technically Nov 04 06:55:49 wasabi, RyeBrye is working on compiling us some more standard linux utils Nov 04 06:55:55 I don't mind having the rest running, but I want to pull it apart and make it run like a normal linux system. Nov 04 06:55:59 so we can make android closer to a plain distro without the beefiness Nov 04 06:55:59 How much onboard memory does it have? Nov 04 06:56:03 but im logged into it and using screen from my g1 Nov 04 06:56:04 Yeah, might be a while because I might fall asleep before I get the normal build done Nov 04 06:56:11 ryebrye you mentioned some keys files? Nov 04 06:56:31 in /security i think Nov 04 06:56:48 I did? there are some public keys there on the device - I'm pretty sure they are the same as what gets built in the git build though Nov 04 06:57:00 damn ping works in the android g1 with pterminal, here comes ddos Nov 04 06:57:02 lol Nov 04 06:57:02 There are some keys that get compiled into the recovery tool Nov 04 06:57:10 What size is the onboard flash? Nov 04 06:57:15 256 Nov 04 06:57:20 Oh. ENough for a decent distro. Nov 04 06:57:22 Nice. Nov 04 06:57:28 192 ram Nov 04 06:57:34 Way more than enough. Nov 04 06:57:35 wasabi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream Nov 04 06:58:15 Does the camera support video? Silly question since I don't much care. Nov 04 06:58:17 Once I get things adjusted the way I like - I'm going to see if I can start hammering away part time at some of the features I would like to see in there... like bluetooth keyboard! :) Nov 04 06:58:20 Hardware limitation? Nov 04 06:58:29 I don't see why it would be Nov 04 06:58:39 lol ionstorm ping will be removed in the next OTA because of that comment lol Nov 04 06:58:43 Oh. Up to 8gb of SD. Cool. That can be /usr if need be. Nov 04 06:58:55 wasabi: why not 16gb? Nov 04 06:58:56 no, up to 2 TB of SD Nov 04 06:58:59 Eh? Nov 04 06:59:05 They just only make 16 Gb Micro SD as of now Nov 04 06:59:07 It supports addressing that high? Nov 04 06:59:16 theoretically Nov 04 06:59:17 but I think SDHC supports up to 2 TB from what I hear Nov 04 06:59:20 ow Nov 04 06:59:23 *wow Nov 04 06:59:24 Dang. Nov 04 06:59:38 So... I guess I'd end up getting it booting off the SD. Nov 04 06:59:41 and if you are still using a G1 when the 2 TB micro SD SDHC cards come out - you deserve to be using one! :) Nov 04 06:59:53 Figure out how to get the kernel/initramfs in the right place, / on the SD Nov 04 06:59:54 the SDHC standard only goes to 32GB, but the protocol trivially goes beyond that. Nov 04 07:00:04 Ah Nov 04 07:00:05 Then I can 'upgrade' it by just pulling the SD and popping it into a PC Nov 04 07:00:07 i should go to bed soon. 'night. Nov 04 07:00:29 gn ttuttle Nov 04 07:00:32 Any word on when more hardware will be out, for othe rproviders? Any hints at all? Nov 04 07:00:35 I desire AT&T. Nov 04 07:00:36 =( Nov 04 07:00:46 ryebrye I'd love bluetooth gps Nov 04 07:00:48 Or maybe some european hardware in the same bands Nov 04 07:00:54 mostly because when the standard was designed the largest pseudo-card they could make (for testing and validation purposes) was 32GB. Nov 04 07:00:55 spikebike -- oooh, yes Nov 04 07:01:08 more battery life and dramatically better performance Nov 04 07:01:21 not to mention you can put it where there's optimal signal and keep the screen where its' optimally easy to see Nov 04 07:01:24 Yep Nov 04 07:01:29 I want bluetooth GPS too Nov 04 07:01:41 it has onboard GPS though right? Nov 04 07:01:47 ya Nov 04 07:02:01 why you need bluetooth? Nov 04 07:02:12 hi all,i am a beginner in android porting Nov 04 07:02:19 better gps Nov 04 07:02:22 The SiRF III is nuts Nov 04 07:02:30 mtk is even better ;-) Nov 04 07:02:32 It has 200,000 correlators to do calculations super fast Nov 04 07:03:19 romaingu - nice photos Nov 04 07:03:34 ryebrye you could tweak the otacerts ;-) Nov 04 07:03:40 with the android source code released ,i would like to know the steps in porting to smdk6400 Nov 04 07:04:00 spikebike - I'm not sure those are used for the updater, to be honest Nov 04 07:04:13 a/j #connectbot Nov 04 07:04:14 I'd hope updates were checked somehow Nov 04 07:04:16 spikebike - the recovery specifically includes a keys.inc file Nov 04 07:04:17 ooops :) Nov 04 07:04:23 what kernel is android running on Rc29 Nov 04 07:04:50 hey does anyone here have rc29? Nov 04 07:04:55 yes Nov 04 07:04:59 does telnet work? Nov 04 07:05:00 just install it Nov 04 07:05:03 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/android-msm-htc-2.6.25 Nov 04 07:05:04 let me look Nov 04 07:05:19 I know this because I was banging my head against the recovery today trying to hack it... but I've gotten very familiar with some parts of how it works and how it verifies Nov 04 07:05:36 It's very well written Nov 04 07:05:39 and very locked down Nov 04 07:05:51 yup, but the weak link in the chain should be all we need Nov 04 07:05:56 welll Nov 04 07:05:59 we found the weak link Nov 04 07:06:01 im pretty sure I can get root Nov 04 07:06:06 ionstorm - we already have Nov 04 07:06:13 word Nov 04 07:06:17 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081&page=2 Nov 04 07:06:17 Well if you've got root, that's all you need. Nov 04 07:06:22 Yes, exactly Nov 04 07:06:37 I'll probably just recompile a new updater that checks for signatures that I would prefer it check for Nov 04 07:06:43 From there you can get anything on it. Just a matter of figuring out what you want. :) Nov 04 07:06:48 and block signatures I would prefer that it NOT let be used :) Nov 04 07:06:50 ionstorm I'd be very curious if you can get root on rc29 Nov 04 07:06:52 ... no more OTA forme :) Nov 04 07:07:02 spikebike - we DID get root on RC29 Nov 04 07:07:11 ah... we = not I Nov 04 07:07:15 i will, if anything I'll code a new local exp Nov 04 07:07:17 spikebike, its rc30 that it will be disabled on lol Nov 04 07:07:18 I got root on rc19 Nov 04 07:07:20 and keep it to myself Nov 04 07:07:47 yeah ideally we could just "bless" binaries with this ability Nov 04 07:07:53 so when they update it still works Nov 04 07:07:59 yea Nov 04 07:08:01 the problem is I have no idea how telnet is suid Nov 04 07:08:02 well... I'm not going to let them update mine ever again Nov 04 07:08:02 RyeBrye, compile x and throw a minimalistic wm on there lol Nov 04 07:08:06 :) Nov 04 07:08:06 ls doesn't report it as suid Nov 04 07:08:18 Me neither Nov 04 07:08:22 It just works Nov 04 07:08:25 can u downgrade firmware Nov 04 07:08:37 Not if you haven't hacked it Nov 04 07:08:38 spikebike, the updates rewrite all the permissions Nov 04 07:08:49 I will never let an OTA run on my device ever again Nov 04 07:08:53 dark even for files that don't exist in the distribution? Nov 04 07:08:58 almost all major perms are rewritten druing the upgrade, so be careful Nov 04 07:09:03 prob not spikebike good idea Nov 04 07:09:08 can u revert back to rc19 from rc29 Nov 04 07:09:12 No, you can't Nov 04 07:09:14 it checks versions Nov 04 07:09:15 like say copy telnetd to bills_favorite_bin Nov 04 07:09:17 cp /system/bin /mybin Nov 04 07:09:18 lol Nov 04 07:09:18 RyeBrye: 29 that bad? Nov 04 07:09:21 29 is good Nov 04 07:09:29 but I don't want to lose root Nov 04 07:09:43 so I'll just compile and update my own once I get that flashing working Nov 04 07:09:57 someone dcc me a g1 Nov 04 07:10:02 is there a way i can update my phone to RC29? Nov 04 07:10:05 if RC30 or whatever the next release is doesn't take away telnetd, I'll be surprised Nov 04 07:10:10 like, before its rolled out to me Nov 04 07:10:13 fcrick - yes Nov 04 07:10:16 RyeBrye, rooot on what rc29? Nov 04 07:10:31 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441282 Nov 04 07:10:35 ionstorm - yes Nov 04 07:10:35 ionstorm, what? Nov 04 07:10:46 ionstorm - you aren't listening to me, are you :P Nov 04 07:11:02 ionstorm, http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=15&t=151&rb_v=viewtopic Nov 04 07:11:27 romainguy - nice photos.... Do you like having thousands of people see your photos now that you're default in photostream :) Nov 04 07:11:54 sup Dialekt Nov 04 07:12:56 Darkrift Nov 04 07:12:59 g1 dun gots r00ted Nov 04 07:12:59 i'm hyped man Nov 04 07:13:00 ! Nov 04 07:13:15 my video rocks Nov 04 07:13:21 video? Nov 04 07:13:27 http://vimeo.com/2124234 Nov 04 07:13:34 turn HD on Nov 04 07:13:37 donkey porn? Nov 04 07:13:41 nope Nov 04 07:15:22 choppy for me Nov 04 07:15:49 cpu usage is up a bit though Nov 04 07:15:53 lots of stuff running Nov 04 07:16:38 turn hd off then Nov 04 07:16:39 lol Nov 04 07:16:54 Dialekt - that's your video? Nov 04 07:16:57 it's pretty cool Nov 04 07:17:10 im in the video Nov 04 07:17:11 sorry to be uncleaer Nov 04 07:17:11 im the guy breakdancing Nov 04 07:17:17 one of them. Nov 04 07:17:21 uh oh Nov 04 07:17:42 i put the 'update' file on my phone and now when i boot i have a big yellow ! Nov 04 07:17:46 should i just wait? Nov 04 07:17:52 alt-L Nov 04 07:17:53 then alt-S Nov 04 07:18:03 oh i have to hold down the alt Nov 04 07:18:04 thanks Nov 04 07:18:07 ah I tried to backup telnetd Nov 04 07:18:09 then just wait Nov 04 07:18:12 brb Nov 04 07:18:15 my dock broke? Nov 04 07:18:18 or expose rather Nov 04 07:18:20 wtf Nov 04 07:18:20 /system/bin is ro Nov 04 07:18:39 I was trying to see if telnetd's magic would work on a new file with identical contents Nov 04 07:19:20 spikebike, you are root Nov 04 07:19:21 lol Nov 04 07:19:33 bleh 'some users found just plain update works best' is just for ppl hiding extensions :/ Nov 04 07:19:35 well, maybe it gets flashed as a RO filesystem though Nov 04 07:19:37 oh wait, /system is mounted ro Nov 04 07:19:50 that can be fixed i bet lol Nov 04 07:19:54 we need nano! Nov 04 07:19:57 hmm... nope, it's yaffs2 Nov 04 07:19:59 pocketnano Nov 04 07:20:01 carry on Nov 04 07:20:16 yeah, I'll work on nano or something once my normal build gets done Nov 04 07:20:21 it takes forever Nov 04 07:20:26 it's building webkit now Nov 04 07:20:37 so the list is: su, nano, passwd, sshd Nov 04 07:20:40 Does the recovery mode boot straight from recovery.img? Nov 04 07:20:55 su will come from the normal build Nov 04 07:21:08 sshd is probably too heavy, but dropbear will come from the normal build Nov 04 07:21:10 not sure Nov 04 07:21:11 dropbear = ssh server Nov 04 07:21:19 RyeBrye: there's no cli shell actually on the phone yet, right? Nov 04 07:21:21 that would work lol Nov 04 07:21:22 I use it on the fonera routers I have hacked Nov 04 07:21:25 fcrick - pterminal Nov 04 07:21:33 ahh nice Nov 04 07:22:22 we need to find out how to run sh from the gui Nov 04 07:23:36 Dialekt, which one are you? Nov 04 07:25:01 does make -j X work on the android build to speed it up? Nov 04 07:25:11 oh Nov 04 07:25:16 hmm.. Nov 04 07:25:18 hard to say Nov 04 07:25:25 me and my roomate are in it Nov 04 07:25:31 he's lighter than me i believe Nov 04 07:26:48 at about 45 seconds they do the first close-up Nov 04 07:28:48 so...can i build my own image from source? Nov 04 07:28:57 im hyped Darkrift Nov 04 07:29:01 so many cool things happening Nov 04 07:29:02 and put it on my phone :) Nov 04 07:29:15 while my thing is building, someone figure out how to make the /system rw Nov 04 07:29:17 not yet fcrick Nov 04 07:29:19 soon though Nov 04 07:29:31 DarkriftX: ok cool :) Nov 04 07:29:34 RyeBrye, i think it would require editing the init.rc Nov 04 07:29:37 I'm kinda warry of mount -o remount,rw /system Nov 04 07:29:38 and reboot most likely Nov 04 07:29:40 prob remount Nov 04 07:29:40 you like the G1 though DarkriftX ? Nov 04 07:29:49 yes Nov 04 07:29:49 or you too busy hacking the hell outta it Nov 04 07:29:50 spikebike - why? Nov 04 07:29:53 i want one, but im broke Nov 04 07:30:12 disgusting Nov 04 07:30:18 i love my iPhone Nov 04 07:30:22 sad to say Nov 04 07:30:25 its just too sexy Nov 04 07:30:27 mount -o remount rw /system works Nov 04 07:30:29 my biggest complaint about the g1 is the battery life Nov 04 07:30:30 unfunctionally sexy Nov 04 07:30:31 no comma Nov 04 07:30:36 I just mkdir foo in /system/bin Nov 04 07:30:44 everything looks like a damn million steps backwards in comparison to the GUI Nov 04 07:30:51 rye cool Nov 04 07:30:58 cp telnetd mytelnetd Nov 04 07:31:05 w00t Nov 04 07:31:07 kill telnetd Nov 04 07:31:13 or just exit the connection Nov 04 07:31:23 spikebike - there is no cp :) Nov 04 07:31:25 then pterminal -> mytelnetd Nov 04 07:31:31 cat telnetd > mytelnetd Nov 04 07:31:41 pterminal -> mytelnetd Nov 04 07:31:42 dd if=telnetd of=mytelnetd :) Nov 04 07:31:50 and see if it still runs as root Nov 04 07:32:12 ahh, i see your thinking Nov 04 07:32:40 it's not normal for linux to have a binary run as root even when you aren't Nov 04 07:32:46 i know Nov 04 07:32:58 why am i blinded? Nov 04 07:35:16 btw, for those using telnet Nov 04 07:35:26 if you connect usb it doesn't go to sleep and kick you off Nov 04 07:35:26 ? Nov 04 07:36:02 I have it on USB already Nov 04 07:36:07 and I set it to never sleep Nov 04 07:36:48 yeah you can set it to never aleep when powered Nov 04 07:38:27 without usb I have to keep clicking on the buttons to keep it awake Nov 04 07:38:38 with usb seems like by default it just keeps running wifi/telnet Nov 04 07:38:47 I didn't click any never sleep slection Nov 04 07:40:47 There is one in the developer settings Nov 04 07:42:39 maybe telnet traffic is enough Nov 04 07:42:54 I spend dinner whining about android on g1 being as closed as any smartphone Nov 04 07:42:57 I'm glad to be wrong ;-) Nov 04 07:43:04 Well... until RC30 :P Nov 04 07:43:18 Yeah, I was complaining earlier today about some fickle network connection issue Nov 04 07:43:21 NO COMPLAINTS Nov 04 07:43:23 :) Nov 04 07:43:30 lol Nov 04 07:43:42 i was about to give up on android for a year or so, not anymore :) Nov 04 07:43:44 ty google :) Nov 04 07:43:51 Because... quite frankly... now if I have a complaint Nov 04 07:43:58 I can either fix it myself, or shut the hell up Nov 04 07:44:02 well... not quite yet - but soon Nov 04 07:45:26 wow. so what does this mean? Can you load any unsigned kernel? Nov 04 07:45:42 is there an xserver android project? Nov 04 07:45:44 Well... I have RW access Nov 04 07:45:53 and I can rewrite the recovery.img Nov 04 07:46:06 so... I can make recovery.img load wtf I want... Nov 04 07:46:16 er Nov 04 07:46:17 so yes, it's a short step to bricking my phone :) Nov 04 07:46:20 where is recovery.img? Nov 04 07:46:31 look in init.rc Nov 04 07:46:31 I don't see it mounted Nov 04 07:46:35 it doesn't mount Nov 04 07:46:37 ah Nov 04 07:46:49 service flash_recovery /system/bin/flash_image recovery /system/recovery.img Nov 04 07:46:53 oneshot Nov 04 07:47:39 once I get an update I'll move otacerts.zip to a different file and see if it still bugs me about updates Nov 04 07:48:05 Just uploading three apps (1 update, 2 new) to the market, http://m.thauvin.net/android/ Nov 04 07:48:31 Does the android build care which specific kernel I have built for it? Nov 04 07:48:35 Actually... what's cool is that we should be able to tear down any google OTA update - tear it down, and replace what we don't like - then resign it and use a custom recovery.img to load it Nov 04 07:50:24 wait Nov 04 07:50:37 RyeBrye: what happens if our recovery image has some fatal problem? Nov 04 07:50:39 spikebike, who is the owner of telnetd? Nov 04 07:50:52 root Nov 04 07:51:33 that is a mystery Nov 04 07:52:30 I wonder if this will trigger a backdoor Nov 04 07:52:36 android has a killswitch no? Nov 04 07:52:42 couldn't they just killswitch telnet? Nov 04 07:53:45 * RyeBrye will block google domains temporarily I think Nov 04 07:54:09 who knows what the killswitch is Nov 04 07:54:18 but it would be nice to get it out in the open early on so we can learn to block it Nov 04 07:55:15 lol Nov 04 07:55:33 I really would suggest caution in reflashing recovery. recovery *is* the safetynet if your system partition gets hosed. Nov 04 07:55:50 just hope the killswitch doesnt involve guns or fire Nov 04 07:56:08 google MIB Nov 04 07:56:27 just a second... someone is knocking at my door Nov 04 07:56:37 LOL Nov 04 07:56:39 ;) Nov 04 07:56:47 that's the REAL reason for the GPS in these phones Nov 04 07:56:49 RyeBrye, is that you? Nov 04 07:56:54 the REAL you? Nov 04 07:56:59 probably an obama volunteer Nov 04 07:57:04 lol Nov 04 07:57:12 RyeBrye: the kill switch goes over the air Nov 04 07:57:15 swetland, did you guys know about this? Nov 04 07:57:49 unless you're blocking the domains via firewall on the phone, adjusting your firewall won't keep you safe Nov 04 07:58:29 Well, since they conveniently disable the data on the phone when wifi is on Nov 04 07:58:31 and do you think they will fix it super fast? Nov 04 07:58:43 lol RyeBrye !! Nov 04 07:58:52 i need a friggen smoke Nov 04 07:58:54 it's not clear to me that google wants to Nov 04 07:59:04 I can't comment publicly on security issues. At some point some official communication will be made, I'm sure. Nov 04 07:59:04 more open == good Nov 04 07:59:06 Google can't say if they want to or not Nov 04 07:59:07 tmo on the other hand Nov 04 07:59:08 id think google would be ok with it being more open if tmo didnt care Nov 04 07:59:26 im sure tmo makes google want it less hackable Nov 04 07:59:39 nokia doesn't care about people messing with the n800 Nov 04 07:59:39 but being hackable means that more ppl will work on it Nov 04 07:59:51 free developers ftw! Nov 04 07:59:52 they arent a service provider Nov 04 07:59:59 right Nov 04 08:00:03 the person selling you limited 3g cares Nov 04 08:00:27 my guess would be that the "killswitch" operates at a java package level, and is checked via the package manager Nov 04 08:00:42 I thought the kill switch thing was only for market apps Nov 04 08:00:45 so they could kill pterminal Nov 04 08:00:57 Well, kiling pterminal would be funy Nov 04 08:00:59 but telnet is likely part of one of the packages? Nov 04 08:01:03 we have no idea if theyve even implemented it yet tho, its just a clause in the TOS Nov 04 08:01:20 they might by CTA for the future Nov 04 08:01:35 swetland any idea how telnet resets the uid without being suid? Nov 04 08:01:58 just a ls <-> yaffs2 bug? Nov 04 08:02:05 some extended attribute? Nov 04 08:04:15 i wonder Nov 04 08:04:17 RyeBrye mount -o remount,rw /system worked for you? Nov 04 08:04:24 if you set the uid of one of hte apk files to root, woudl it run as root? Nov 04 08:04:32 spikebike, he said no comma Nov 04 08:05:11 actually, the apk is just a container.... Nov 04 08:05:22 i wonder if there is an extraction method built in Nov 04 08:05:27 extract, set as root, repackage :S Nov 04 08:06:07 oh, er, I.. nevermind. k Nov 04 08:06:38 i wonder if there are linux apps already compiled for this cpu Nov 04 08:07:59 spikebike - no comma Nov 04 08:08:23 use a space? Nov 04 08:08:35 Yeah Nov 04 08:08:37 oh another -o? Nov 04 08:08:44 mount yaffs2 mtd@system /system ro remount Nov 04 08:08:48 that's in the init.rc Nov 04 08:08:51 so mount yaffs2 mtd@system /system rw remount Nov 04 08:09:00 that should also work (minus the so in front of it, obviously) Nov 04 08:09:49 mount -t yaffs2 mtd@system /system -o ro,remount # you mean that? Nov 04 08:10:18 this isnt normal mount Nov 04 08:10:26 * paulproteus nods Nov 04 08:10:52 I just copied straight out of the init.rc Nov 04 08:12:31 ah iptables is in the kernel Nov 04 08:12:38 nice Nov 04 08:12:51 /sys/module/iptable_filter Nov 04 08:14:49 # mount yaffs2 mtd@system /system ro remount Nov 04 08:14:49 Usage: mount [-r] [-w] [-o options] [-t type] device directory Nov 04 08:14:52 what happens if the phone stops checking in with google? Nov 04 08:14:59 # mount -t yaffs2 mtd@system /system -o ro,remount Nov 04 08:14:59 Usage: mount [-r] [-w] [-o options] [-t type] device directory Nov 04 08:15:11 spikebike, I just did that in another channel Nov 04 08:15:15 mount -o remount rw /system Nov 04 08:15:17 that's what I did Nov 04 08:15:24 heh Nov 04 08:15:28 so you have heard ;-) Nov 04 08:15:36 mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system; chmod 4777 /system/bin/sh Nov 04 08:15:50 If you have a local terminal app, that allows you to spawn a root shell Nov 04 08:15:58 or with the debugger, whichever works for you Nov 04 08:16:02 ya, been discussing that for awhil e;-) Nov 04 08:16:20 chmod 4777 /system/bin/sh should go in the init.rc :) Nov 04 08:16:27 lol Nov 04 08:17:48 ioerror any idea how telnetd manages to launch as root? Nov 04 08:18:33 spikebike, not a clue Nov 04 08:18:39 It's not setuid/setgid Nov 04 08:18:45 and my shell is running as an app_ Nov 04 08:18:52 ya Nov 04 08:19:03 maybe a yaffs2 <-> ls bug? Nov 04 08:19:08 or maybe an extended attribute Nov 04 08:19:13 D/DeviceInfoSettings( 299): Updated intent on copyright to Intent { comp={com.htc.fieldtest/com.htc.fieldtest.SettingsCopyrightActivity} } Nov 04 08:19:15 there is no lsattr 8-( Nov 04 08:19:17 :| Nov 04 08:19:35 spikebike, did you ln it to toolbox? Nov 04 08:19:49 no Nov 04 08:20:06 good idea though, no idea if busybox or whatever includes that Nov 04 08:20:06 what else does toolbox have in it? Nov 04 08:21:51 perhaps run strings on a copy of the binary to see what they compiled in? Nov 04 08:21:53 no way to tell cept for trying "toolbox Nov 04 08:22:33 I'm thinking of renamign /system/etc/security/otacerts.zip to prevent updates Nov 04 08:22:42 might not be smart :s Nov 04 08:23:53 I could always undo it Nov 04 08:24:01 toolbox top = bad on emulator Nov 04 08:24:05 no way to get out of it Nov 04 08:24:16 assuming that reboot doesn't check and brick if missing Nov 04 08:24:45 spikebike, : http://ioerror.livejournal.com/495953.html Nov 04 08:24:49 cat /proc/loadavg whats your load averages? Nov 04 08:25:23 i got 3.5, crazy Nov 04 08:25:26 waht are the different targets for make? Nov 04 08:25:34 for the git source - i.e. if I wnat to make the engineering build Nov 04 08:26:48 jesus, 3.5 load average, thats not good at all Nov 04 08:27:09 not necessarily Nov 04 08:27:27 that just means the runqueue has 3 things in it Nov 04 08:27:45 # cat /proc/loadavg Nov 04 08:27:45 44.60 15.94 8.46 2/211 7251 Nov 04 08:27:46 heh Nov 04 08:28:29 well as far as I know it would need 3 times as much processing speed to reach below 1 Nov 04 08:28:47 not necessarily Nov 04 08:29:00 it's not always waiting on CPU Nov 04 08:29:06 yea Nov 04 08:29:37 I had a stupid LCD proc that would always wait for the next screen in a stupid way that would always make my loads > 1 when nothing else was running Nov 04 08:29:37 there isn't a bug in the yaffs2 code regarding setuid reading as far as i can see Nov 04 08:29:40 netcat would be perfect for a shell Nov 04 08:29:42 there are other setuid programs Nov 04 08:29:43 compile it for arm Nov 04 08:30:00 (ping is setgid) Nov 04 08:30:10 oooooh!!! Nov 04 08:30:23 getprop shows all the settings that the updates look for to tell your device Nov 04 08:30:25 and setprop lets you change them Nov 04 08:30:35 we could probably change those and force an old update to install Nov 04 08:30:37 word Nov 04 08:30:56 [ro.build.description]: [generic-sdk 1.0 110632 110632 test-keys] Nov 04 08:30:56 [ro.build.fingerprint]: [generic/generic/generic/:1.0/110632/110632:sdk/test-keys] Nov 04 08:31:21 i cant get telnetd to run Nov 04 08:31:41 don't cheat Nov 04 08:31:46 cd /system/bin Nov 04 08:31:49 then telnetd Nov 04 08:31:58 for whatever reason running it from elsewhere does't work Nov 04 08:32:14 someone run getprop and paste me the fingerprint line :) Nov 04 08:32:15 hrm, just running /system/bin/telnetd also works for me Nov 04 08:32:18 and the description Nov 04 08:32:19 ive been doin that Nov 04 08:32:24 i will reboot then try Nov 04 08:33:26 [ro.build.fingerprint]: [tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC19/109652:user/ota-rel-keys,release-keys] Nov 04 08:34:04 ok, setprop doesnt seem to work :S Nov 04 08:34:09 telnetd work on rc29? Nov 04 08:34:12 ioerror ah, just read that somewhere I hadn't tried it Nov 04 08:34:24 I see dropbear in the git source, but odn't know how to get it to build it :) Nov 04 08:35:03 i'll reboot my phone and check to see if the setuid backdoor sticks (it should) Nov 04 08:35:34 export TARGET=arm-linux Nov 04 08:36:26 yep Nov 04 08:36:30 i have root after a reboot Nov 04 08:36:51 what worries me is that a killswitch/update could trivially look for all suid binaries that don't belong Nov 04 08:37:20 so did that uid trick work? Nov 04 08:37:28 Well, update is easy Nov 04 08:37:33 jsut don't update Nov 04 08:37:45 well it might not be the ask first ota update Nov 04 08:37:46 unless you compile it yourself Nov 04 08:38:00 spikebike, thats easy Nov 04 08:38:01 spikebike, that's easy Nov 04 08:38:06 hrm, no chgrp Nov 04 08:38:11 edit your hosts file and change google.com to localhost :) Nov 04 08:38:12 finally got in via telnetd Nov 04 08:38:18 so your OTa's will never download Nov 04 08:38:24 spikebike, try ln -s to create a chrgrp Nov 04 08:38:24 or your searches or email :P Nov 04 08:38:30 but dont expect to use search lol Nov 04 08:38:42 yeah, you could do the server that the updates coem from more specifically i guess Nov 04 08:38:56 android.clients.google.com Nov 04 08:39:05 make that resolve to 127.0.0.1 Nov 04 08:39:06 just look in the source and see what does the OTA updates Nov 04 08:39:16 and neuter it Nov 04 08:39:38 anyone know what zygote is? Nov 04 08:39:53 nope Nov 04 08:40:05 perhaps time to grab it and decompile? Nov 04 08:40:13 chgrp: no such tool Nov 04 08:40:15 it restarts when killed Nov 04 08:40:41 removing the otacert seems like a good idea Nov 04 08:40:50 i think chgrp might work in the init.rc Nov 04 08:40:58 download it, edit and reupload it to the device Nov 04 08:41:03 make it chgrp a file or 2 and test it Nov 04 08:41:14 I'll just move the otacert Nov 04 08:41:25 * DarkriftX waits for the first rooted brick Nov 04 08:41:42 why mess with init.rc at all? Nov 04 08:41:50 well a system reset should still result in a fresh rc19 system for me Nov 04 08:41:50 why not just setuid /system/bin/sh and be done with it? Nov 04 08:41:55 because it can chown and probably chgrp Nov 04 08:42:01 ioerror because they might fix it Nov 04 08:42:08 Fix what? the setuid bit? Nov 04 08:42:29 has anyone tried that? to see if it even works? Nov 04 08:42:33 i just did it Nov 04 08:42:39 DarkriftX, http://ioerror.livejournal.com/495953.html Nov 04 08:42:40 and you get root shell every time? Nov 04 08:42:46 if tmo can tell the g1 to run something that removes all unknown suid binaries in system Nov 04 08:42:48 the setuid shell is persistent Nov 04 08:43:04 spikebike, unless i'm mistaken, you are prompted for OTA updates Nov 04 08:43:10 Simply refuse them for now? Nov 04 08:43:14 what about the android market app? Nov 04 08:43:22 didn't that one appear like magic for people? Nov 04 08:43:36 ioerror not sure they can be refused... google did admit to a kill switch Nov 04 08:44:19 a kill switch is different than something that rolls through your entire file system with root privs Nov 04 08:44:27 ya Nov 04 08:44:29 At least, I sure as heck hope it is different :-/ Nov 04 08:44:45 ioerror, can i copy that into a post on my forum (with backlink of course) Nov 04 08:44:47 LOL Nov 04 08:44:55 I want to be the kill switch Nov 04 08:45:01 DarkriftX, sure, i don't mind Nov 04 08:45:03 "a kill switch is different than something that rolls through your entire file system with root privs" Nov 04 08:45:12 it's a tank! Nov 04 08:45:15 heh Nov 04 08:45:26 I found dropbear in my build Nov 04 08:45:33 but it's built as a client only Nov 04 08:45:34 nice Nov 04 08:45:39 I'm going to change and see if I can make it a client / server Nov 04 08:45:40 shit Nov 04 08:45:41 a few lines of script could hunt/destroy telnetd and find any untrusted suid files in /system Nov 04 08:45:42 and then put it on my phone Nov 04 08:45:44 shouldn't be ahrd Nov 04 08:45:55 they rename it to ssh - which is why I had a hard time finding it Nov 04 08:46:23 IIRC theres a force update switch in the g1 Nov 04 08:46:28 to auto update without agreeing Nov 04 08:46:33 I decided to copy sh -> billsh and suid billsh Nov 04 08:46:34 anyway back to afk lol Nov 04 08:46:39 spikebike, i agree that it's trival to find setuid binaries Nov 04 08:46:51 spikebike, I think though that you're safe for now Nov 04 08:47:04 alternatively, you could create a new directory say, /owned/ Nov 04 08:47:08 when I sleep I think I'll go into airplane mode Nov 04 08:47:17 Well... they can't auto-update if their update engine doesn't trust their binaries any more Nov 04 08:47:39 In /owned, you could chown it to a user that's not root and inside it, put a setuid shell Nov 04 08:47:51 ioerror - good thinking Nov 04 08:48:17 so that only that user can open it, etc Nov 04 08:48:21 not sure / is writeable Nov 04 08:48:26 sure it is ;-) Nov 04 08:48:27 you're root Nov 04 08:48:28 well... make it writeable :) Nov 04 08:48:50 lol, paranoid of system updates Nov 04 08:49:00 well I'm not sure the media's it's mounted is writeable Nov 04 08:49:04 I can't even find the device Nov 04 08:49:27 hrm Nov 04 08:49:50 rootfs / rootfs ro 0 0 Nov 04 08:49:54 just type... "mount" Nov 04 08:49:58 ya I got that Nov 04 08:50:01 oh, ok :) Nov 04 08:50:07 but what filesystem is it? Nov 04 08:50:08 how big is it? Nov 04 08:50:13 what device is it on? Nov 04 08:51:17 ioerror: http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=15&t=151&p=413&rb_v=viewtopic#p413 (if you cared, i only edited it to remove extra lines and add [code]) Nov 04 08:52:07 ioerror btw, ironically I was trying to track you down to discuss using the g1 as a hardware token for ssh-agent/openid because it's so secure a place to hide a private key Nov 04 08:52:32 ah Nov 04 08:52:41 yes, i was working on something to stuff my private key into my sim Nov 04 08:52:49 ah chown apparently had chgrp like functionality built in Nov 04 08:53:29 spikebike, if you want to write something like that, i've got some good news for you... Nov 04 08:53:41 ya? Nov 04 08:54:21 http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=15&t=151&p=413&rb_v=viewtopic#p413 Nov 04 08:54:26 scp and ssh installed - but ssh seems to be in client mode :) Nov 04 08:54:27 err, x fail Nov 04 08:54:28 http://www.thoughtcrime.org/software/mobileauth/index.html Nov 04 08:54:31 lol Nov 04 08:54:34 spikebike, ^^^ Nov 04 08:54:49 lol RyeBrye Nov 04 08:54:57 telnet into a device to ssh out of it Nov 04 08:55:05 So this attack doesn't appear to work on rc-29 Nov 04 08:55:10 which attack? Nov 04 08:55:12 I'm on RC29 Nov 04 08:55:15 I'm rooted on it Nov 04 08:55:16 and you have local root? Nov 04 08:55:19 hell yes Nov 04 08:55:20 huh Nov 04 08:55:22 word me too rooted rc29 Nov 04 08:55:29 join #noisebridge and help 'ieatlint' ? Nov 04 08:55:34 He can't get it to work on his phone? Nov 04 08:55:39 have him come here :S Nov 04 08:55:52 which process kills the telnetd Nov 04 08:55:56 i'm here too Nov 04 08:56:00 lol Nov 04 08:56:00 heh Nov 04 08:56:05 ieatlint, ah, there you go ;-) Nov 04 08:56:08 ioerror I was pondering writing a ssh-agent and openid server proxy that communicated with a g1 over XMPP Nov 04 08:56:08 scp is nice though Nov 04 08:56:18 are you starting telnetd in pterminal, or in the debug bridge? Nov 04 08:56:21 wait RyeBrye Nov 04 08:56:25 spikebike, you're crazy ;-) Nov 04 08:56:26 does scp work as a local copy? Nov 04 08:56:27 RyeBrye, the telnetd times out after a few min or gets killed Nov 04 08:56:32 can you scp to localhost? Nov 04 08:56:37 not sure if its going to sleep or what Nov 04 08:56:47 ionstorm it does that to me until I attached usb Nov 04 08:56:48 if so, write a quick .sh file called cp and we can use that Nov 04 08:56:57 (unless I kept hitting keys on the g1 to keep it awake) Nov 04 08:57:35 ah word thnx spikebike Nov 04 08:57:54 ioerror well xmpp works over wifi and cellular Nov 04 08:58:17 spikebike, you're still crazy ;-) Nov 04 08:58:20 shit, root is all we need to do whatever we want Nov 04 08:58:21 why? Nov 04 08:58:22 someone good with bash scripting give us a 1 liner (with no grep or awk) to convert "cp filename newfilename" into scp lol Nov 04 08:58:23 w00t Nov 04 08:58:26 though it's starting to rub off on me ;-) Nov 04 08:58:37 gotta install aircrack-ng now lol Nov 04 08:58:38 spikebike, you're always writing software and I <3 you for it Nov 04 08:58:49 DarkriftX, You're best off just installing busybox. Nov 04 08:58:51 what kind of wireless hardware does this handset have? Nov 04 08:59:00 paulproteus, toolbox is busybox, no? Nov 04 08:59:10 broadcom Nov 04 08:59:12 ioerror, Oh, yes, exactly Nov 04 08:59:12 ;\ Nov 04 08:59:34 ionstorm, does the kernel source for android have full sources? Or is it a binary blob? Nov 04 08:59:42 full src Nov 04 09:00:06 a few bins i think Nov 04 09:00:22 hrm, i'm curious about monitor mode Nov 04 09:00:25 i will look Nov 04 09:00:28 ioerror, Are there any exciting files in /dev ? Nov 04 09:00:41 paulproteus, like what? Nov 04 09:00:48 With this access, you can overwrite the recovery image, but can you flash the thing directly? Nov 04 09:00:59 omg, root = hw access = ability to flash the bootloader. didnt someone say there is a device that is almost exact specs with unlocked bootloader? Nov 04 09:01:06 or am i missing something Nov 04 09:01:23 with root, you can also read all the partitions off the mtd Nov 04 09:01:26 (Like the boot loader; the NAND you can just write to, with your root powers) Nov 04 09:01:29 which will give you a lot more info Nov 04 09:01:37 (things like the recovery partition, for example) Nov 04 09:01:37 Hmm... it will probably take a while to get dropbear server buildng for the G1 Nov 04 09:01:38 there are built in commands to flash the boot partition Nov 04 09:01:44 They have a funky makefile format they use Nov 04 09:01:45 someone should just make an app that enables disables telnetd on the fly as root with authentication Nov 04 09:01:46 ieatlint, jump on it ;) Nov 04 09:01:52 or just sshd Nov 04 09:01:52 i can't get root on my phone Nov 04 09:02:02 oh Nov 04 09:02:04 dropbear is pretty much sshd Nov 04 09:02:05 ieatlint, reboot the phone and do it quickly Nov 04 09:02:24 when you run telnetd, it doesn't return you to a prompt, correct? Nov 04 09:02:25 ? Nov 04 09:02:30 no, it doesn't Nov 04 09:02:31 correct Nov 04 09:02:37 you have to telnet INTO the phone Nov 04 09:02:46 via wifi Nov 04 09:02:46 so you have to do it over wifi Nov 04 09:02:47 "bind(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(23), sin_addr=inet_addr("0.0.0.0")}, 16) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)" Nov 04 09:02:55 that's why i can't run telnetd Nov 04 09:02:57 ieatlint, how are you getting that? Nov 04 09:03:01 you have strace on the phone? Nov 04 09:03:02 strace Nov 04 09:03:04 yeah Nov 04 09:03:06 kyle@ion:~$ telnet 192.168.0.88 Nov 04 09:03:06 Trying 192.168.0.88... Nov 04 09:03:06 Connected to 192.168.0.88. Nov 04 09:03:06 Escape character is '^]'. Nov 04 09:03:06 # id Nov 04 09:03:06 uid=0(root) gid=0(root) Nov 04 09:03:08 ieatlint what release are you running? Nov 04 09:03:15 rc29 Nov 04 09:03:19 duh dun dun Nov 04 09:03:28 Linux version 2.6.25-01843-gfea26b0 (android-build@apa27.mtv.corp.google.com) (gcc version 4.2.1) #6 PREEMPT Mon Oct 6 14:13:36 PDT 2008 Nov 04 09:03:33 ieatlint - are oyu on wifi? Nov 04 09:03:38 i can't bind to any port under 1024 Nov 04 09:03:47 which is expected Nov 04 09:03:49 tried it on wifi and not Nov 04 09:03:55 well... not expected Nov 04 09:03:59 indeed.. Nov 04 09:04:02 but you would think it would be expected Nov 04 09:04:09 except for in bizarroland Nov 04 09:04:25 and i can run telnetd on another port Nov 04 09:04:28 ieatlint - did you do the RC29 thing via OTA? Nov 04 09:04:37 but when i telnet in, it's still just the shell user, not root Nov 04 09:04:43 yeah, ota, not forced/usb Nov 04 09:04:49 hrmmmmm Nov 04 09:04:50 Hmm Nov 04 09:04:52 interesting Nov 04 09:04:55 maybe the forced did it Nov 04 09:04:57 I think all of us did forced USB Nov 04 09:04:57 you guys do ota or forced? Nov 04 09:05:00 lol Nov 04 09:05:01 Hell yes forced USB Nov 04 09:05:02 ieatlint, try the forced way Nov 04 09:05:02 I wonder if there is a new rc29 Nov 04 09:05:03 maybe i should force it Nov 04 09:05:06 can you downgrade? Nov 04 09:05:12 no, you can't downgrade Nov 04 09:05:13 yes, force it - you can't downgrade Nov 04 09:05:15 i think you can force the same version Nov 04 09:05:17 but you can reflash the same version Nov 04 09:05:18 but i seem to recall reading you can reinstall Nov 04 09:05:19 but not a lower Nov 04 09:05:32 wow, i wonder if our forcing it caused this Nov 04 09:05:38 Which would be awesome Nov 04 09:05:47 we caused the hole! Nov 04 09:05:51 * spikebike has a vanilla RC19 as purchased tmo Nov 04 09:05:56 oh Nov 04 09:05:56 and root works Nov 04 09:06:00 ok, need to go lookup the directions on forcing, one min Nov 04 09:06:02 i haven't done anything to mine Nov 04 09:06:06 no ota, stock firmware Nov 04 09:06:29 thank god for ieatlint Nov 04 09:06:46 otherwise I might have happily accepted a rc29 update Nov 04 09:06:52 so who can create a dump of all the good stuff for us? Nov 04 09:06:52 Yeah, don't do it OTA Nov 04 09:06:55 heh, well, let's see how the force works? :P Nov 04 09:07:00 app partitions etc Nov 04 09:07:05 all* Nov 04 09:07:11 s/app/all/ Nov 04 09:07:13 hopefully the force will wor Nov 04 09:07:15 k Nov 04 09:07:17 What kind of a dump do you want? Nov 04 09:07:28 anything that might be useful Nov 04 09:07:41 I can scp it all off of mine :) Nov 04 09:07:46 heh Nov 04 09:07:55 i mean, you have root ;-) Nov 04 09:07:56 prolly safer to just dd it all to the sdcard Nov 04 09:08:00 what more do you want? Nov 04 09:08:03 each mountable device Nov 04 09:08:11 I wonder what "radiooptions" does Nov 04 09:08:12 ;) Nov 04 09:08:15 with root, you can also read all the partitions off the mtd (Like the boot loader; the NAND you can just write to, with your root powers) which will give you a lot more info (things like the recovery partition, for example) Nov 04 09:08:46 ok, ok, i agree you can get more with root ;-) Nov 04 09:08:48 ieatlint, iirc you can't read /dev as that luser user you are? Nov 04 09:08:51 But I mean, what are you looking for? Nov 04 09:08:59 i can read /dev as the shell user Nov 04 09:09:02 ioerror, this might be a temp thing Nov 04 09:09:04 Oh, okay, great. Nov 04 09:09:05 but not access the devs Nov 04 09:09:07 just list them Nov 04 09:09:08 Sure. Nov 04 09:09:10 more info now might make hacking the next versions easier Nov 04 09:09:19 the compass device nod could be interesting :) Nov 04 09:09:33 yeah like a full copy of the bootloader Nov 04 09:09:39 yeah, that Nov 04 09:09:39 echo 1 into a file in /sys and then get readings.. same with the accelerometer Nov 04 09:09:51 huh Nov 04 09:09:58 also can control all the LEDs in /sys Nov 04 09:10:01 the best file is by far /init.rc Nov 04 09:10:07 so you can force the keyboard light on, or alter the brightness of the lcd Nov 04 09:10:21 lots of good stuffs can be done with root Nov 04 09:10:32 ieatlint hmm, I wonder if we should try the root procedure one more time before you reflash Nov 04 09:10:54 i already flashed Nov 04 09:11:00 well, just finishing it up now Nov 04 09:11:00 ah, nevermind Nov 04 09:11:11 but i can guarantee you, that it wouldn't work Nov 04 09:11:14 this should be interesting Nov 04 09:11:31 starting up now... Nov 04 09:11:37 funny if they already figured it out and patched it Nov 04 09:12:13 If by funny you mean tragic - you're right Nov 04 09:12:15 no go Nov 04 09:12:24 ouch Nov 04 09:12:25 no go means what? Nov 04 09:12:30 pterminal doesn't run? Nov 04 09:12:30 fail Nov 04 09:12:32 same error Nov 04 09:12:37 can't bind to port 23 Nov 04 09:12:40 what exactly are you doing Nov 04 09:12:44 gotta be your device or something Nov 04 09:12:46 pterminal then? Nov 04 09:12:47 your phone sucks - you should return it and get a new one that is still rc19 :) Nov 04 09:12:52 (-: Nov 04 09:12:57 RyeBrye's onto something! Nov 04 09:12:58 'i wanna return this, i cant root it' Nov 04 09:13:13 huh Nov 04 09:13:14 # cat init.goldfish.rc Nov 04 09:13:14 on boot Nov 04 09:13:14 setprop ARGH ARGH Nov 04 09:13:14 setprop net.eth0.dns1 10.0.2.3 Nov 04 09:13:15 i run telnetd and it exits without error in the shell (through the adb) Nov 04 09:13:21 'you got anything in say, white? or rc19?' Nov 04 09:13:24 setprop net.gprs.local-ip 10.0.2.15 Nov 04 09:13:35 try pterminal Nov 04 09:13:45 # disable some daemons the emulator doesn't want Nov 04 09:13:45 stop dund Nov 04 09:13:45 stop akmd Nov 04 09:13:45 Nov 04 09:13:46 ieatlint - have you been using pterminal? Nov 04 09:13:48 that's interesting stuff Nov 04 09:13:57 ahahahha. how did we check the ARGH thing in Nov 04 09:14:03 oooh, pterminal does it Nov 04 09:14:09 heh Nov 04 09:14:09 did it not do it before? Nov 04 09:14:11 init.goldfish.rc doesn't run on dream/g1 btw Nov 04 09:14:12 lol, swetland! (-: Nov 04 09:14:13 I thought so Nov 04 09:14:14 it didn't before, before it wouldn't start telnetd Nov 04 09:14:19 only on the emulator (goldfish) Nov 04 09:14:32 screw you guys, i wanted to go to bed "early" tonight Nov 04 09:14:33 swetland, did you check that in? Nov 04 09:14:33 Well... Swetland - we figured out the issue - and it's nothing big Nov 04 09:14:34 what about init.dream.rc ? Nov 04 09:14:40 hilarious Nov 04 09:14:56 I'm pretty sure setprop ARGH ARGH was from when I was debugging the device-specific init rc file stuff Nov 04 09:15:03 We're busy patching our phones so we can't get root on them ever again... Nov 04 09:15:05 swetland, it was all a joke, no root.. tell google not to fix anything since its not broken Nov 04 09:15:14 APRIL FOOLS :) Nov 04 09:15:16 How many google engineers are in here laughing at people disclosing local root bugs and discussing how to thwart those same engineers Nov 04 09:15:20 Turns out... we were all using emulators Nov 04 09:15:24 I guess it's non-zero Nov 04 09:15:37 you guys are fine upstanding citizens, setting a good example like that ^^ Nov 04 09:15:46 so wheres most of the g1 hacking going on, as far as forums Nov 04 09:15:47 Yes, it's the least we can do Nov 04 09:15:52 swetland, we are doing it for google Nov 04 09:15:56 Gary|thinkpad, xda-devs Nov 04 09:16:00 everyplace I'm at is starting to annoy me Nov 04 09:16:05 yeah, tahts normal Nov 04 09:16:08 Ooh... su - that's going on for SURe Nov 04 09:16:14 i post the info on my site but not much chat about it there Nov 04 09:16:22 DarkriftX: first post I saw on xda: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441727 Nov 04 09:16:31 HOW DOES I CONNECT G1 TO INTEL LOL Nov 04 09:16:39 swetland, any idea why telnetd gives root? Nov 04 09:16:44 su passwd, ssh, groups, chgrp Nov 04 09:16:49 Gary|thinkpad, http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448 Nov 04 09:17:04 oh, and NANO!!! Nov 04 09:17:13 I didn't look around at all after that post Nov 04 09:17:22 any idea where the kernel modules are on the phone? Nov 04 09:17:33 I know quite a bit about this particular issue, but can't discuss it at this point. Will be fun to chat about what's going on once official response, disclosure, patch, etc are done. Nov 04 09:17:43 I don't like that last part Nov 04 09:17:49 patch :/ Nov 04 09:17:49 "patch" Nov 04 09:17:58 Why would you patch this? Nov 04 09:18:00 lol Gary|thinkpad !!! thats funny Nov 04 09:18:12 This doesn't sound like a security issue. Only people who own their phones can take advantage of it. Nov 04 09:18:14 paulproteus, they have to make t-mobile happy Nov 04 09:18:18 im looking in /dev where is the main drive ? Nov 04 09:18:37 No, seriously swetland, what's the "security" risk? Nov 04 09:18:57 swetland - just out of curiosity and so I can better understand the platform... the recovery.img in /system is what is booted when you hold down home + power, right? Nov 04 09:18:58 swetland, tell them to take their time in fixing it please Nov 04 09:19:01 we need to enjoy this Nov 04 09:19:02 the security risk is what users will do to the carriers network Nov 04 09:19:13 I'm on EDGE Nov 04 09:19:17 hah Nov 04 09:19:20 languish, Dude, I have an OpenMoko FreeRunner sitting next to me. I have experience with root on a GSM phone. Nov 04 09:19:25 you can already do arbitrary tcp connections without root Nov 04 09:19:26 Anything I could possibly do to them is no worse than what they are doing to me Nov 04 09:19:27 nothign languish ppl just want more power, not to run ktorrent on the damned things Nov 04 09:19:40 All this lets you do is send serial commands to the modem, woo frickin' hoo. No impact on T-Mobile's network. Nov 04 09:19:48 paulproteus, i know, this is the *concern* not a "problen" Nov 04 09:19:53 i'm pulling the stuff from the mtd now Nov 04 09:19:59 rye: the recovery.img from the recovery partition is booted when you hold HOME. again, I'd advise against blindly replacing it as it does make it really hard to fix a device if you muck up the system partition Nov 04 09:20:11 the carrirs are paranoid control freaks Nov 04 09:20:12 I'm not planning to replace it Nov 04 09:20:17 huh, what's recovery.img? Nov 04 09:20:20 since I don't see where it's built Nov 04 09:20:24 swetland, If you just tell me where the JTAG traces are, we can just flash a replacement image on anyway. Nov 04 09:20:33 so make sure if you replace it, DO NOT "MUCK" UP YOUR SYSTEM PARTITION!!! Nov 04 09:20:44 what is the drive device in /dev im going to make a copy Nov 04 09:20:46 for everyone Nov 04 09:20:55 swetland, I don't mean to be too much of a jerk, sorry if I come off that way this late night. Nov 04 09:21:02 mtd? Nov 04 09:21:13 Memory Technology Device - the NAND flash Nov 04 09:21:29 well, mtd is the device, but you probably want to pull the partitions Nov 04 09:21:34 cmonex, wakie wakie Nov 04 09:21:35 there's mtd0 through mtd5 Nov 04 09:21:55 swetland, Please do take seriously the idea that isn't a "security" issue. Nov 04 09:21:56 misc, recovery, boot, system, cache, userdata (in order) Nov 04 09:21:59 ieatlint, if you can dcc me whatever you get id appreciate it Nov 04 09:22:02 paul: that's fine. there are limits to what we can discuss publicly at times and I'm sure it's annoying. Nov 04 09:22:15 * paulproteus nods Nov 04 09:22:17 recovery boot system Nov 04 09:22:22 DarkriftX, it's likely it contains info that is private Nov 04 09:22:31 oh Nov 04 09:22:34 eg, my SMSs, call log, and other stuff Nov 04 09:22:38 i c Nov 04 09:22:45 factory reset and then do it lol Nov 04 09:22:49 jk Nov 04 09:22:54 swetland - is the recovery.img just a renamed version of the file built in the recovery_intermediates/LINKED/recovery ? Nov 04 09:22:54 hah, no thanks, find someone else :) Nov 04 09:23:19 dd if=/dev/mtd/mtd0 of=/sdcard/mtd0.bin Nov 04 09:23:22 rye: a full device build should drop a recovery.img in out/target/product/$name/ iirc Nov 04 09:23:24 that works Nov 04 09:23:35 ioerror, nice Nov 04 09:23:40 erm Nov 04 09:23:43 ionstorm* Nov 04 09:23:44 a generic build (the default) will not build a recovery image (because generic/emulator builds don't have a recovery partition) Nov 04 09:23:51 Ahhh, gotcha Nov 04 09:24:53 anyone who pulls any images off here that do not contain private data, feel free to dcc them to me and ill host them for those who want em Nov 04 09:24:54 To prevent us from being attacked by malicious people spoofing OTA updates, all OTA things are checked against the OTA keys prior to being deployed, correct? Nov 04 09:25:26 all OTAs are signed, yes Nov 04 09:25:26 and also malicious google trying to take away our root! Nov 04 09:25:47 swetland, is a signature required for a local recover.img? Nov 04 09:25:50 It appears that the keys that the recovery checks against are compiled in from the keys.inc Nov 04 09:25:53 with a certs stored in /system/etc/security/otacerts.zip? Nov 04 09:26:07 eg, edit hosts and put android.clients.google.com pointing to 127.0.0.1 for now Nov 04 09:26:13 I honestly would have to dig through the source to sort out exactly where all the bits come from Nov 04 09:26:19 no problem Nov 04 09:26:33 I didn't have much involvement in the recovery process besides some general suggestions on the design Nov 04 09:26:59 swetland, any comment on when the hacker friendly version of the firmware comes out for us to build our own OS? Nov 04 09:27:00 ;-) Nov 04 09:27:27 never :( Nov 04 09:27:37 That's not true. Nov 04 09:27:43 i think thats the carriers choice Nov 04 09:28:02 in theory we can take the base linux that is given and tear out android and put in what we want Nov 04 09:28:21 we're still investigation options for making developer hardware available somehow, and yes, the oems/carriers could choose to build/ship devices that allow enduser replacement of the system Nov 04 09:28:24 lets get x with icewm on there lol Nov 04 09:28:40 like openmoko plans to Nov 04 09:28:57 DarkriftX yes..? Nov 04 09:29:05 swetland one question Nov 04 09:29:08 you said: Nov 04 09:29:09 [08:55:36] I really would suggest caution in reflashing recovery. recovery *is* the safetynet if your system partition gets hosed. Nov 04 09:29:15 was asking what you wanted dd'd Nov 04 09:29:25 can't the bootloader reflash if you manage to flash junk for recoveryr? Nov 04 09:29:33 not on these devices Nov 04 09:29:36 the htc bootloader Nov 04 09:30:03 the htc bootloader afaik is totally neutered Nov 04 09:30:17 the regular usb based download/flash mechanism we use for development does not exist in the production bootloader Nov 04 09:30:18 *snip snip* Nov 04 09:30:23 Kernel modules are in /system/lib/modules Nov 04 09:30:29 swetland: doesit not have ability to read image from SD? Nov 04 09:30:52 just wlan.ko is in there Nov 04 09:30:55 I'm pretty sure it doesn't Nov 04 09:31:02 ionstorm, correct Nov 04 09:31:06 but we can disassmble and look once we have it dumped Nov 04 09:31:17 RyeBrye: did you talk to the engineers or how do you know all this so well? :P Nov 04 09:31:23 I'm of course just trying to be optimistic :) Nov 04 09:31:36 cmonex - I've been attacking the bootloader first, and the recovery mode secodn for several days now Nov 04 09:31:36 I don't think the bootloader is actually readable from the arm11 side of the world Nov 04 09:31:51 That would make some sense Nov 04 09:31:58 I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the bootloader partition is on the arm9 exclusive side of flash Nov 04 09:32:01 i wish lsof was on here Nov 04 09:32:07 swetland: no, no, I'm not talking about the radio bootloader. Nov 04 09:32:14 yes I know Nov 04 09:32:16 I'm talking about the arm11 bootloader, the one that has tricolour screen Nov 04 09:32:17 the arm11 bl Nov 04 09:32:31 which is btw pretty much standard HTC SPL behaviour Nov 04 09:32:34 it's loaded by the arm9 bl and I'm pretty positive it's on a partition only readable from the arm9 side Nov 04 09:32:35 the tricolour screen thingie :) Nov 04 09:32:50 why are you positive? Nov 04 09:33:15 on other HTC devices it is readable and reflashable by the ARM11, by using the (ARM11) bootloader to reflash itself Nov 04 09:33:18 because we only update it from itself Nov 04 09:33:20 what's the logo.rle? Nov 04 09:33:21 is that changed on this phone? Nov 04 09:33:41 it is readable and reflashable ->i mean arm11 bl again Nov 04 09:33:42 lol, rle is an OLD format Nov 04 09:33:48 its a bitmap ioerror Nov 04 09:33:54 used to be standard in win3.0 days Nov 04 09:33:57 darkhorse, interesting Nov 04 09:34:16 winlogo.rle was the windows logo (boot splash, but win3.0 didnt really boot, just just started up) Nov 04 09:34:22 *I* actually can't tell without trying, and I haven't tried. I did recommend that it be on the secure side of the flash partitioning. It's certainly possible they didn't listen to me. Nov 04 09:34:34 it supported animation of sorts (color cycling) so im sure its the animated droid Nov 04 09:34:42 RyeBrye: I have a PM for you Nov 04 09:35:05 swetland: Do you know or can say something about the possible developer G1s? Nov 04 09:35:28 poor google devs... not enough of them to go around Nov 04 09:35:31 we need to clone them! Nov 04 09:35:38 anno: can't say anything other than it's something being investigated. if something comes of it, there will be a public announcement Nov 04 09:36:00 If they rush an update for this, but made us all wait around for the RC29 OTA update, I'm going to be really mad Nov 04 09:36:06 i got rc29 OTA and the telnet thing works fine Nov 04 09:36:26 ah interesting Nov 04 09:36:37 I copied telnetd to foo Nov 04 09:36:45 I was sort of hoping for availability of such things early on, so that there would be a nice clear path for system developers, also in case we managed to ship with no security holes ^^ Nov 04 09:36:47 and when I run it, it still runs as root Nov 04 09:36:51 swetland: thanks for answering :) Nov 04 09:37:05 odd spikebike Nov 04 09:37:09 indeed Nov 04 09:37:35 cmonex: I do what I can. Some questions I'm just not going to be able to answer publicly. I probably push the limit of what management would approve of as it is. Nov 04 09:37:39 I used cat Nov 04 09:37:56 lol Nov 04 09:38:02 cat telnetd > newfile? Nov 04 09:38:08 ya Nov 04 09:38:10 lol Nov 04 09:38:18 never thought of that for binaries Nov 04 09:38:21 telnetd = magic Nov 04 09:38:25 that's all there is to it Nov 04 09:38:28 there are some awkward areas inbetween the open platform / source code and the specific devices that partners ship Nov 04 09:38:29 google magic! Nov 04 09:38:43 spikebike, interesting Nov 04 09:39:04 "bugdoor" Nov 04 09:39:11 lol, yeah, i never thought of using cat to cp a bin like that, very interesting Nov 04 09:39:13 echo 255 > /sys/class/leds/blue/brightness Nov 04 09:39:26 so whats everyones view on trying to run an apk as root? think it would change naything or do yuo think the java layer would make it useless (i know the apk is an archive, just dont know what to call the binary inside it) Nov 04 09:39:30 have fun with that ( echo 0 to turn it off, and look in the leds folder for other ones) Nov 04 09:39:47 my phone is teh blue ghost! Nov 04 09:40:22 I'm trying to pipe images out of the camera to recreate scenes in real life Nov 04 09:40:24 no such luck yet Nov 04 09:40:41 you have the camera dev node? Nov 04 09:40:49 no Nov 04 09:40:54 hrm, any idea how to edit this bitmap? the gimp doesn't like it. Nov 04 09:41:09 pmem_camera ? Nov 04 09:41:21 ioerror, mspaint Nov 04 09:41:24 hah Nov 04 09:41:31 humm, http://www.android-portal.com/2008/11/03/android-running-on-fi-neo1973-and-freerunner/ Nov 04 09:41:33 thats what i used to use in win3.0/95 days Nov 04 09:41:35 shit, i'll just go fire up my windows 95 machine Nov 04 09:41:41 is that "new" news? Nov 04 09:41:45 no Nov 04 09:41:50 reda it 3 days ago Nov 04 09:41:55 oh crapp, i left that back in 1997! Nov 04 09:42:07 DarkriftX, hmm, okay, thanks Nov 04 09:42:10 ioerror, win vista has mspaint :S Nov 04 09:42:28 so does xp Nov 04 09:42:40 2k3, 2k, etc Nov 04 09:42:40 ah, sadly, i left those back in america Nov 04 09:42:58 wine? Nov 04 09:43:01 this is a big hole, any app could execute telnet and people could remotely root your phone Nov 04 09:43:04 be careful Nov 04 09:43:07 im sure oyu can find mspaint.exe somewhere Nov 04 09:43:32 yeah, mspaint runs great in wine :) Nov 04 09:43:41 anyone knows a good rss feed for g1 / android? Nov 04 09:43:49 OI news reader seems to be good Nov 04 09:43:55 gets lots of downloads on my site Nov 04 09:43:59 and its free/donationware Nov 04 09:44:33 i wonder now how quickly the EA games will get cracked and distro'd as installable .apk's Nov 04 09:44:37 :| Nov 04 09:44:47 ea games SUXOR Nov 04 09:45:00 EA suzors, not all ea games do Nov 04 09:45:03 swetland: Thank you. Just thought that there could be some timeframe to make the decision easier. Buying a G1 right now at ebay and paying about 700+x $ or being able to wait for the developer program. Nov 04 09:45:03 they cut them down too much Nov 04 09:45:16 swetland: yeah I understand.. you are being pretty nice to us though ;) Nov 04 09:45:38 wow, 2 very delayed reactions there Nov 04 09:45:49 lol Nov 04 09:45:59 i keep loooking for a recent comment form him Nov 04 09:46:35 man... I'm super tired Nov 04 09:46:40 ioerror when you demonstrated the suid shell on your page where did you type that? Nov 04 09:46:42 RyeBrye... a PM again :) Nov 04 09:46:59 btw, what is this developer program? I must have missed something Nov 04 09:47:03 spikebike, no comment Nov 04 09:47:10 a new chance for getting dev devices? :) Nov 04 09:47:14 er Nov 04 09:47:14 who actually first announced they discovered the exploit? Nov 04 09:47:22 languish: xdadevs forum Nov 04 09:47:24 I meant what program, not what physical location Nov 04 09:47:36 pterminal? Nov 04 09:48:12 cmonex, of course, I meant when some tech blogsistes start saying "user blah blah from the xda forums" Nov 04 09:48:35 languish, ill paste url Nov 04 09:48:47 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081 Nov 04 09:48:54 thanks Nov 04 09:49:01 languish: ah, no idea Nov 04 09:49:13 is it out there on any blogs yet anyway? :) Nov 04 09:50:17 someone posted in their livejournal Nov 04 09:50:30 SplasPood <---- orig poster Nov 04 09:50:42 i'm waiting for tmonews or engadget to pick it up Nov 04 09:50:42 that was ioerror Nov 04 09:50:50 lets /.it Nov 04 09:50:51 lol Nov 04 09:50:53 languish, yes, i did Nov 04 09:51:01 and digg!!! Nov 04 09:51:02 ioerror :) Nov 04 09:51:02 languish, i linked to the first place i saw it Nov 04 09:51:09 nod Nov 04 09:51:23 i'm just curious, i'm not a writer or anything Nov 04 09:51:51 i get amused by the inaccuracy most writers put in their blogs/articles Nov 04 09:55:30 http://digg.com/gadgets/Tmo_G1_rooted Nov 04 09:55:59 can i assume that this root exploit is for the g1 only right now, and not in the pc emulator? Nov 04 09:56:28 /dev/smd27 is the GPS nmea out Nov 04 09:56:34 which is cool to cat Nov 04 09:59:17 let's see if dropbear works :) Nov 04 09:59:26 it does Nov 04 09:59:31 it compiles in client only though Nov 04 09:59:43 and I'm way to tired to make it compile as server in their build Nov 04 09:59:47 i have it compiled as daemon and client Nov 04 09:59:51 Oh, you did? Nov 04 09:59:54 generating the rsa key now Nov 04 09:59:57 Cool Nov 04 10:00:07 did you modify the Android.mk? Nov 04 10:00:18 don't even know what that is Nov 04 10:00:25 how did you compile it then? Nov 04 10:00:32 I was just using the version in the git repo Nov 04 10:00:49 i cross compiled it Nov 04 10:00:56 using gcc... statically linked Nov 04 10:00:59 cool Nov 04 10:01:11 I should have just done that Nov 04 10:01:33 do nano next :) Nov 04 10:01:44 I'm off to bed Nov 04 10:01:48 I hope I'll still be root in the morning :) Nov 04 10:01:48 o/ Nov 04 10:02:20 gnite :) Nov 04 10:02:22 lool Nov 04 10:02:27 maybe power off the device = Nov 04 10:02:28 =P Nov 04 10:02:39 I proably will Nov 04 10:02:46 but I'm going to block the android.clients.google or whatever it was Nov 04 10:03:54 echo "127.0.0.1 android.clients.google.com" >> hosts Nov 04 10:03:55 ryebrye removing /system/etc/security seems to have worked Nov 04 10:04:26 y helo system security *yank* Nov 04 10:04:56 :) Nov 04 10:05:00 RyeBrye, dropbear will need to be fed some fake stuffs... "login attempt for nonexistent user from 192.168.1.5:50434" Nov 04 10:05:10 it needs a passwd to reference methinks Nov 04 10:05:12 ahhh... gotcha Nov 04 10:05:38 need to cross-compile passwd :) Nov 04 10:05:50 whoa Nov 04 10:05:57 oh Nov 04 10:05:57 nm Nov 04 10:05:59 I'm too tired Nov 04 10:06:04 busybox has passwd Nov 04 10:06:05 my god.. it's full of star Nov 04 10:06:09 and it's on my system Nov 04 10:06:22 but adduser is more like :P Nov 04 10:06:29 oh, yeah.. that Nov 04 10:06:36 I'm way too tired to keep my eyes opened any more Nov 04 10:06:53 oooh, oooh... cant remember the movie name Nov 04 10:07:01 hal9000 used to be my bots name though Nov 04 10:07:26 erm, come to think about it, maybe digging that article with my link wasnt a good idea :S Nov 04 10:07:48 i should have used xda-devs, they prob have better servers then i am on Nov 04 10:08:56 DarkriftX, hahaha Nov 04 10:09:10 hope you have a capped hosting bill Nov 04 10:09:20 heh, i work at my host :) Nov 04 10:09:25 :) Nov 04 10:09:36 boss is gonna keeljoo Nov 04 10:09:44 i also have access to a couple dedicated servers, butnot enough time to move it over Nov 04 10:09:50 nod Nov 04 10:09:59 the bw is fine, its the 50 concurrent sql connections that bothers me Nov 04 10:10:11 memcache Nov 04 10:10:52 im trying to download pterminal from a link on android-dls.com, and it seems to not exist, is the file down? Nov 04 10:10:57 even with android.clients.google.com pointing to 127.0.0.1 in my hosts file, it seems to still resolve it Nov 04 10:11:02 oooh, let me check it Gigawatts Nov 04 10:11:04 because it gets there with the checking Nov 04 10:11:16 err check-in that is Nov 04 10:11:19 http://android-dls.com/files/apps/src.com.poidio.terminal.apk Nov 04 10:11:28 is the link i was looking at Nov 04 10:13:48 RyeBrye, if you find the cause, then reply to this also http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/81f985c7e0b2807d :P Nov 04 10:14:27 whoa - you can make /system mountable wiht adb remount? Nov 04 10:14:30 er writeable? Nov 04 10:14:31 cool Nov 04 10:14:32 yeah Gigawatts not sure whats wrong with my link :S Nov 04 10:14:37 the file exists, htacccess is blocking it somehow Nov 04 10:14:52 wierd, yeah, i was hoping to join the fun on an emulator Nov 04 10:15:20 know of any other mirrors for the file? Nov 04 10:15:40 fixed Gigawatts Nov 04 10:15:50 no idea what was wrong Nov 04 10:15:56 put it in a different folder and its working Nov 04 10:16:31 DarkriftX still bad here Nov 04 10:16:39 refresh the page Nov 04 10:16:51 gives me a download prompt Nov 04 10:17:05 keep in mind, you have to click the link from my site Nov 04 10:17:13 cant click links from other sites to .apk files Nov 04 10:17:17 ok give me a page where i can click it from Nov 04 10:17:18 :) Nov 04 10:17:24 http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=15&t=151&p=411&rb_v=viewtopic#p411 Nov 04 10:17:32 in step 1 Nov 04 10:17:38 yup, that did it, thankx DarkriftX Nov 04 10:17:46 no, thank you lol Nov 04 10:17:46 nvm found on Nov 04 10:17:48 e Nov 04 10:17:48 :) Nov 04 10:17:50 that would have been bad :( Nov 04 10:18:01 i need a smoke Nov 04 10:18:03 Your job, to find out how to make this permanent (well, how to get it on the device itself, or how to get it from the adb shell) and find out how this helps us flash custom (edited, unsigned) updates. Nov 04 10:18:05 its almost 3:30 am :( Nov 04 10:18:07 yeah, espcially since your the only google hit on pterminal.apk Nov 04 10:18:08 heh Nov 04 10:18:18 im on google already? Nov 04 10:18:19 wtf Nov 04 10:18:22 yeah Nov 04 10:18:26 thats been up for 20 minutes if that Nov 04 10:18:27 Has anyone figured out how to decode or replace the logo.rle? Nov 04 10:18:33 I think there's code in the git repo for it Nov 04 10:18:45 google watches ya. : Nov 04 10:18:48 :P Nov 04 10:18:49 google knows no bounds =] Nov 04 10:18:49 someone to dump the physical ram at 0x0, first 512KB Nov 04 10:18:52 I got at least the header Nov 04 10:19:08 Image size: 512x512 Nov 04 10:19:08 24 bit color image, no colormap. Nov 04 10:19:08 No alpha channel. Nov 04 10:19:09 Use only non-background pixels, clear to background color (default). Nov 04 10:19:20 spikebike, how did you get that? Nov 04 10:19:26 google knows no bounds =] <- robots.txt to block teh adnroids creators Nov 04 10:19:27 see DarkriftX's question Nov 04 10:19:27 spikebike, i didn't see that header Nov 04 10:19:30 err, request Nov 04 10:19:31 =) Nov 04 10:19:33 rletopnm --headerdump Nov 04 10:19:39 [11:18:52] someone to dump the physical ram at 0x0, first 512KB Nov 04 10:19:51 dark what is there? Nov 04 10:20:00 spikebike, too bad it segfaults :-( Nov 04 10:20:03 its not about bounds, its about how damned fast they crawled that shit Nov 04 10:20:12 normally takes 2-3 days for a new page to hit google :S Nov 04 10:20:26 spikebike, ask cmonex Nov 04 10:20:27 /exec google_crawl url ;-) Nov 04 10:20:28 she asked me to ask Nov 04 10:20:35 cmonex? Nov 04 10:20:35 just dump it =P Nov 04 10:20:46 she wouldnt ask if it werent gonna be good Nov 04 10:21:36 u betcha Nov 04 10:27:00 Gigawatts, that installed correctly right? Nov 04 10:27:40 yeah Nov 04 10:27:42 it did Nov 04 10:27:46 cool Nov 04 10:28:15 im just working on figuring out what port it opened the telnet server on, as im working with localhost, lol Nov 04 10:28:26 and it doesnt appear to be 23 Nov 04 10:32:49 can I use the android market with the emulator? Nov 04 10:32:54 no Nov 04 10:33:28 DarkriftX: can I install the software manually somehow? Nov 04 10:33:48 yeah Nov 04 10:34:20 http://www.androidfreeware.org/tutorials/how-to-install-apk-files-on-android-device-emulator Nov 04 10:34:28 ok Nov 04 10:34:36 Phlogi, that will explain the install process Nov 04 10:34:47 thanks Nov 04 10:35:08 your just using the adb command in tools to install the apk file Nov 04 10:37:05 DJTachyon: dude... Nov 04 10:40:34 hmm, somehow, i dont think telnetd is running properly on the emulator Nov 04 10:41:14 Gigawatts, you already have root on the emu Nov 04 10:41:22 and this bug seems to be g1 related Nov 04 10:41:45 just use -shell on the emulator ot get the same shell they are getting Nov 04 10:42:39 * DarkriftX goes to bed Nov 04 10:42:40 gn all Nov 04 10:42:42 have fun :) Nov 04 10:42:43 interesting Nov 04 10:42:50 thanks for everything Nov 04 10:42:54 np Nov 04 10:42:58 night Nov 04 10:44:58 lunch time for me... Nov 04 10:47:32 hey so what sprint phones does android support currently? Nov 04 10:48:20 none afaik Nov 04 10:58:40 no, there's a port for the htc touch Nov 04 11:00:14 port? Nov 04 11:00:29 http://www.myhtcphone.com/vogue-cab-installer Nov 04 11:00:55 not fully functional... no GPS, no camera, no sd card support Nov 04 11:01:06 power management? Nov 04 11:01:13 cellular? Nov 04 11:01:13 dunno Nov 04 11:01:22 it seems to make calls and use the data net Nov 04 11:01:28 cool Nov 04 11:01:34 follow the link Nov 04 11:01:38 it sez Nov 04 11:01:40 i did Nov 04 11:01:58 spikebike, http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160445&page=6&highlight=android Nov 04 11:02:09 nesoi: the EDGE/GPRS stuff and EVDO radio are different, I'd suspect Nov 04 11:02:22 this is evdo obviously Nov 04 11:02:48 interesting Nov 04 11:02:59 better than I would have guessed Nov 04 11:03:16 I was on here b4 and some idiot was telling me that NO android port has a working radio Nov 04 11:03:23 he was totally arrogant about it too Nov 04 11:04:58 if it worked on the touch pro I'd get one. but I think this guy is only porting for his own phone and he's got a touch Nov 04 11:05:19 nesoi: sorry, I don't see where that says EVDO Nov 04 11:05:50 kRutOn, if the network works on high speed on sprint, that's EVDO Nov 04 11:09:21 nesoi: I can try it out tomorrow. I have a Touch, Touch Pro, and Touch Diamond Nov 04 11:09:48 cool kRutOn. I'd love to know if it runs on the touch pro. Nov 04 11:09:53 btw, what do you think of the touch pro? Nov 04 11:10:13 does it have that trackball the tmobile android phone has? Nov 04 11:10:19 I haven't used it much because it's running WinMo Nov 04 11:10:35 yeah, ive waiting to hear bout android + touch pro, as that is what im waiting for in my next phone purchase Nov 04 11:11:11 the touch pro has a directional pad made out of bendable plastic that's kind of hard to use Nov 04 11:11:29 and its hardware specs are nearly identical with the g1's so i figured it was only a matter of time Nov 04 11:11:31 dang. I like that trackball Nov 04 11:11:55 kRutOn, bleh, diamond is the same crap Nov 04 11:11:56 http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/images/stories/news/2008/06/htc-touch-pro-00.jpg Nov 04 11:12:08 yeah, diamond is pro without the keyboard Nov 04 11:13:42 does anyone know if tmobile retail store have g1 demo phones on display to play with? Nov 04 11:13:52 ive been meaning to go check one out in person Nov 04 11:14:00 some do, but I haven't been to one yet Nov 04 11:14:11 I went to one store and they just had the fake ones Nov 04 11:14:17 bah Nov 04 11:14:29 kRutOn, why do you have all those phones? Nov 04 11:14:42 yeah, really, want to sell one? Nov 04 11:14:44 lol Nov 04 11:14:46 Gigawatts, I saw one at a tmobile store in SF, and my friend bought one so I played with it for a while Nov 04 11:15:01 cool Nov 04 11:16:26 touch pro on verizon.. i might get it Nov 04 11:16:37 although i don't want to reward them for not adopting android Nov 04 11:16:39 idiots Nov 04 11:17:06 allright, i think im going to head out for the "night", talk to you guys later Nov 04 11:17:43 bb Nov 04 11:18:17 nesoi: They're not mine Nov 04 11:18:36 cool, but why do you have them? for development use? Nov 04 11:42:49 trigatch4, supposedly verizons version of the touch pro is crippled in hardware in various ways, not sure what the differences will be on the shipping model, but you may want to check Nov 04 11:43:17 yeah pretty common/lame Nov 04 11:43:22 take a decent phone Nov 04 11:43:25 cripple it Nov 04 11:43:36 then sell the extra features Nov 04 11:43:49 or just not bother and leave the incentive for buying the next upgraded phone Nov 04 11:46:05 speaking of features - going to get a Nokia n96 tomorrow... can't wait to see how DVB-H works in real life :) Nov 04 12:23:52 what part of the activity life cycle happens when someone opens the keyboard Nov 04 12:26:33 mlester: i guess, screen-rotate->onCreate()? Nov 04 12:30:35 so when you do its goes onPause->onStop->onCreate? Nov 04 13:35:49 so when rotating view when keyboard opens is it onPause -> onResume or onPause ->onCreate Nov 04 13:39:02 Should be onPause -> onResume. Nov 04 13:40:07 Well, onPause should be followed by onResume if that's the codepart that's being followed in that case. Nov 04 13:40:42 onPause -> onCreate isn't supposed to happen within a single process, and when opening the keyboard you're likely to stay within the same process. Nov 04 13:41:15 Hi, any success running Android on Freerunner (GTA02)? I have black screen only... Nov 04 13:41:43 is there a simple way to emulate "onMouseDown" ? I want something to fire as soon as it's touched, but only once Nov 04 13:42:00 onClick only fires after touch/untouch Nov 04 13:42:17 I thought that onCreate would be called as part of the default process to re-generate the view hierarchy, so I'd expect to see it go all the way down to onDestroy, and then to restart from onCreate. Nov 04 13:42:20 freerunners: Anybody had success on this images? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Seanmcneil3 Nov 04 13:43:52 uluatu: black screen Nov 04 13:44:10 jreznik: same here Nov 04 13:44:36 seems that Cedris on mailling list got success... Nov 04 13:44:47 It worked for me ! Nov 04 13:44:47 I can reach main menu, launch apps... Nov 04 13:44:47 note that here I started without SIM card... will try with it... Nov 04 13:45:01 this is what he said about it. Nov 04 13:45:25 uluatu: could you point me to that mail? Nov 04 13:45:41 I tried without the SIM, even not beleive, but no success. Nov 04 13:46:05 I tried without SIM, SD card, from NAND uboot but no success Nov 04 13:46:23 anybody here know how to unlock android? Nov 04 13:46:44 yeah Nov 04 13:46:46 same here Nov 04 13:46:54 I thinks his is running on 1973 Nov 04 13:47:07 not sure yet, I just ask him about it Nov 04 13:47:39 uluatu: yeah, seems to be different LCD Nov 04 13:48:04 jreznik: yep Nov 04 13:48:40 I can ping the system and running nmap against I can confirma the linux kernel Nov 04 13:48:50 the system is there, behind the shadow ;) Nov 04 13:49:11 I know, but no ssh Nov 04 13:49:16 yep Nov 04 13:49:21 only a 5555 port Nov 04 13:49:42 what's running on 5555? Nov 04 13:50:08 adb Nov 04 13:50:11 afaik Nov 04 13:50:14 yes Nov 04 13:50:24 that's the failover if it can't find the usb client device Nov 04 13:52:03 so the system is there but no screens available Nov 04 13:52:21 im gonna check the diferences on video between 1973 and freerunner Nov 04 13:52:59 so I'm going back to QtE for now... I don't have time to build kernel for Freerunner and investigate changes Nov 04 13:53:51 jreznik: I didn have success running QtE, GPRS is not working properly Nov 04 13:54:09 uluatu: GPRS is working only in Qtopia 4.3.2 Nov 04 13:54:20 there is no stable freerunner dist available Nov 04 13:54:37 QtE is best but still so many bugs :( Nov 04 14:00:20 this is going to sound like a really stupid question, and probably not the right place, but I'm running out of options. Nov 04 14:00:31 What's the default location for videos on the MicroSD card? Nov 04 14:00:32 jreznik: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-November/035125.html Nov 04 14:00:44 two more guys got it running Nov 04 14:02:15 tp-work, there isn't one. the downloadable video player scans the microsd card and if itfind compatiblevideos will display them in a selectable list to play Nov 04 14:02:16 uluatu: do you still have to carry around a usb keyboard? Nov 04 14:02:30 humm. Nov 04 14:02:31 okay. Nov 04 14:02:35 tp-work, you have to encode the videos properly, with the correect file extention Nov 04 14:02:54 I've got a few 3gp files that came with splashplay. Nov 04 14:03:03 non of them are coming up in either of the video players. Nov 04 14:03:16 Disconnect: corry? Nov 04 14:03:19 nice. http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0810/gallery.holiday_gadgets.fortune/index.html Nov 04 14:03:25 Disconnect: sorry? Nov 04 14:03:29 tp-work http://forums.tmonews.com/index.php?topic=3261.0 Nov 04 14:03:31 the videos themselves work fine in splashplay. Nov 04 14:03:36 last i heard of android on openmoko you had to use a usb keyboard Nov 04 14:04:02 plusminus_ whats up man Nov 04 14:04:07 thanks for the vote of confidence. Nov 04 14:04:30 Disconnect: yes, for now we dont have a virtual keyboard. The first goal is to bring the system up on our ARMV4t arch Nov 04 14:06:08 languish: no. Nov 04 14:06:13 but nevermind. Nov 04 14:09:44 martin made an on screen keyboard for the htc vogue http://c-alb-pc3.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ (see update 19/5/08) Nov 04 14:10:13 yawn Nov 04 14:11:02 i'll try newer uboot Nov 04 14:11:23 wow, gotta love that whoever wrote those fortune reviews didn't put their name on 'em Nov 04 14:12:24 hey can you telnet in connectbot ? Nov 04 14:12:45 * ttuttle voted =D Nov 04 14:12:58 ^_^ Nov 04 14:13:03 i think i voted Nov 04 14:16:14 * jasta_ still needs to drop his ballot off Nov 04 14:18:31 * Disconnect is in crooked e-voting hell. but i'll vote anyway. Nov 04 14:18:31 they are not even asking for id to vote.... Nov 04 14:20:17 To repaste what I pasted in #android-dev Nov 04 14:20:20 http://pastebin.com/m2e0c9e0 Nov 04 14:20:23 http://pastebin.com/m554dddb6 Nov 04 14:20:40 what stupid error is preventing the view from inflating Nov 04 14:20:47 * michaelnovakjr voted for darrell hammond and tina fey Nov 04 14:21:09 (write in) Nov 04 14:22:28 sigh... non-public constructors maybe? Nov 04 14:22:33 (it's too early for thinking) Nov 04 14:41:44 jreznik: I tried with the http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/gta02v5_and_up-u-boot.bin Nov 04 14:41:50 jreznik: no success either Nov 04 14:45:07 Has anyone had any success with 565 Bitmaps in Android? It seems to require 8888 (ARGB) for the color bits, even if I specify Bitmap.Config.RGB_565 Nov 04 14:48:50 Anyone know where the hook is to tie in with the picture 'share' menu ala myspace? Nov 04 14:54:32 uluatu: well, we have to wait :( Nov 04 14:55:10 jreznik: Sorry, I didnt try it with the latest ubooot, I thought I was doing that but i dont. Nov 04 15:03:40 the music player isn't bad.... only thing is there could be a fade when a call is coming in, easier on the ears than a complete stop for the ring Nov 04 15:16:47 Where is /system/bin/playmp3? Nov 04 15:16:48 you think the music player with the stock headphone sounds good? Nov 04 15:19:03 im still on rc19 Nov 04 15:19:13 i guess its time to do it manually Nov 04 15:20:30 neekers: it sounds good, but the headphones are kinda big Nov 04 15:20:50 neekers yea it actually sounds really good IMO Nov 04 15:20:52 i'm certainly going to look for new headphones that are comfortable Nov 04 15:20:59 * mikez5 got a $4 adaptor on Amazon so I could use better headphones Nov 04 15:21:12 i think it sounds kinda small and tinny. nothing like what my mp3 player does Nov 04 15:21:17 I would get a headache if I listened to the stock phones for too long. Nov 04 15:21:22 i paid 2.77 shipped Nov 04 15:21:30 they suck Nov 04 15:21:39 they hurt my ears Nov 04 15:21:43 cause they are too fat Nov 04 15:21:46 they are fugly Nov 04 15:21:51 but they sound ok to me Nov 04 15:22:02 insufficient volume Nov 04 15:22:02 You can get an adaptor that is compatible with TMobile Dash. But avoid the fancy HTC headphones with a lot of buttons on them. They don't work Nov 04 15:22:06 the headphones, not d0nets Nov 04 15:22:18 man, if that sounds ok, then you havent listened to good mp3 players... Nov 04 15:22:19 lol Nov 04 15:22:51 yeah, the volume is low to... no rocking out to GnR on that thing Nov 04 15:23:10 or to anything while in transit Nov 04 15:23:38 neekers: are you hard of hearing? Nov 04 15:23:42 you call that low? Nov 04 15:23:47 did you try the volume button? Nov 04 15:24:05 i could hear it over the NYC subway pulling in the station :) Nov 04 15:24:29 yes, i did turn it up. maybe i should take mine back to the store and compare it to another... it doesnt sound good Nov 04 15:24:37 I compiled Android with repo as per the instructions. In the dmesg output on my device when I boot... I get an error about playing the boot sound failing because playmp3 is missing. Nov 04 15:24:39 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280277868575 Nov 04 15:25:09 yea freal, the first time i plugged them in Nov 04 15:25:12 it started playing music Nov 04 15:25:16 i almost shat myself Nov 04 15:25:24 because i had the headphones and the phone all the way up Nov 04 15:25:25 i encoded video with a +40db audio boost and it still wasn't loud enough on the subway to hear what the characters in the show were saying with the stock headphones Nov 04 15:25:37 now, I can hear phone calls just fine Nov 04 15:25:50 but wider band audio... Nov 04 15:25:52 not so much Nov 04 15:26:02 languish: are you still using the stock headphones? Nov 04 15:26:14 neekers, for the moment yeah Nov 04 15:26:20 gonna replace 'em soon Nov 04 15:26:32 do you think they sound good for mp3 music? Nov 04 15:26:37 the sound on 'em is fine, but insufficient volume Nov 04 15:26:44 they're "ok" not "good" Nov 04 15:27:00 i'm not hearing any low end at all, it sounds really tinny Nov 04 15:27:01 and it depends on the quality of the mp3 Nov 04 15:27:05 i just think they are uncomforatble Nov 04 15:27:09 then yours have a problem Nov 04 15:27:13 get them replaced Nov 04 15:27:23 michaelnovakjr, i agree there too Nov 04 15:27:24 neekers: yea, i'd get them replaced Nov 04 15:27:31 i'll take it back to tmobile and compare it to another then Nov 04 15:27:41 they were falling out of my ears... i have small ears... doesn't work well for me Nov 04 15:27:57 michaelnovakjr, did you use the foam pads? Nov 04 15:28:10 i was gonna try those next Nov 04 15:28:10 i am mad at my googlephone Nov 04 15:28:16 michaelnovakjr: crazy glue! Nov 04 15:28:20 languish: not yet :) Nov 04 15:28:23 wastrel, well is doesn't like you either Nov 04 15:28:24 completely failed to make phone call yesterday Nov 04 15:28:26 is/it Nov 04 15:28:27 :| Nov 04 15:28:44 wastrel, phone failure, or t-mobile failure? Nov 04 15:28:56 iono Nov 04 15:29:05 my iPhone does this thing where after an hour on the phone it drops the call :) Nov 04 15:29:07 called home after the F stopped running Nov 04 15:29:12 to tell wiffy imma be late, Nov 04 15:29:20 rings, she picks up, disconnects Nov 04 15:29:24 8 times or so Nov 04 15:29:25 michaelnovakjr: mine does this thing where it reboots when I'm in the middle of a call :( Nov 04 15:29:29 was able to call a different number Nov 04 15:29:44 mighta been wiffy Nov 04 15:29:47 being huffy Nov 04 15:29:49 nuh uh Nov 04 15:29:53 cuz she found your prego porn stache Nov 04 15:29:54 she doesn't do that Nov 04 15:30:03 lol Nov 04 15:30:23 :/ Nov 04 15:30:23 i use the prego porn as cover for the really nasty stuff Nov 04 15:30:30 they don't usually look further than that Nov 04 15:30:48 i'd say more, but this isn;t the place :) Nov 04 15:30:51 but as i was saying, couldn't complete the call Nov 04 15:30:57 yeah that sucks Nov 04 15:31:17 i had tmo refund me the data charges for this month because of all the service problems Nov 04 15:31:26 wastrel did you hard reset? Nov 04 15:31:41 and for each day they lose voice, it'll be another $5 off my bill Nov 04 15:31:48 then we'll see how they do next month Nov 04 15:32:03 intoit did you ever get the vnc app working Nov 04 15:32:11 d0nets, i didn't try Nov 04 15:32:30 id like to try Nov 04 15:32:35 go ahead Nov 04 15:32:41 d0nets: that's a negative Nov 04 15:32:59 i was able to complete a call to a diff number Nov 04 15:33:17 and when i finally got smart and stopped dialing her, she was able to call me Nov 04 15:33:26 i dunno, never had problems like this before - i blame google. Nov 04 15:33:31 AnyoneAnything happen since last night? Nov 04 15:33:39 google can't get anything right ;] Nov 04 15:33:41 err... anything new since last night? Nov 04 15:33:51 * offby1` smells abbrev expansion Nov 04 15:33:53 or rather... five hours ago? Nov 04 15:33:54 RyeBrye, no Nov 04 15:33:56 dunno ryebrye i just woke up Nov 04 15:34:03 * languish been up Nov 04 15:34:04 RyeBrye: with what? Nov 04 15:34:11 The root party :) Nov 04 15:34:19 g1's been rooted Nov 04 15:34:36 eh, not really interested :) Nov 04 15:34:49 I seriously woke up several times throughout the night anxiety that my phone got patched or something and i didn't have root anymore Nov 04 15:34:57 * RyeBrye needs to get some professional help Nov 04 15:35:21 michaelnovakjr, you should be interested in how. it's hilarious Nov 04 15:35:35 how was it done? Nov 04 15:35:42 telnet runs as root Nov 04 15:35:51 haha, oh boy Nov 04 15:36:06 The funniest thing was the first person to do it probably wasn't aware of what he / she did Nov 04 15:36:10 wait what? Nov 04 15:36:13 THey just wanted to telnet into their phone :) Nov 04 15:36:23 d0nets - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441081&page=2 Nov 04 15:36:56 ioerror's lj entry is a better quickref Nov 04 15:37:17 I don't have the URL to it Nov 04 15:37:23 http://ioerror.livejournal.com/495953.html Nov 04 15:37:34 hey wiat Nov 04 15:37:42 i coulda sworn i remember reading about telneting in Nov 04 15:37:44 on day 1 Nov 04 15:38:10 i mentioned it awhile ago when messing with pterminal, but I ende dup trying to get sshd working instead Nov 04 15:38:16 how did you start the telnetd proc? Nov 04 15:38:27 figured telnet wasn't secure and blah blah overlooke dit Nov 04 15:39:22 turns out, you had no idea how insecure telnet actually was :P Nov 04 15:39:59 srsly Nov 04 15:40:02 how could it be even less secure than I thought? I thought it had zero security Nov 04 15:40:23 RyeBrye: i saw that but thought "no, there's no way that works on a retail device" Nov 04 15:40:26 like i said, hilarious Nov 04 15:40:33 * Disconnect shouldn't have assumed Nov 04 15:40:49 ha Nov 04 15:41:06 yep the gdevs musta been laffin their ascii's off Nov 04 15:41:14 at how long it took to get noticed Nov 04 15:41:18 but shh Nov 04 15:41:20 RyeBrye: Morning. Nov 04 15:41:21 haha Nov 04 15:41:27 morning Nov 04 15:41:28 so now who wants to accidentally drop an engineering bootloader onto rapidshare? Nov 04 15:41:48 I don't know if we can flash the bootloader on the HTC side yet Nov 04 15:41:59 IT's on some protected partition from what I heard last night Nov 04 15:42:10 dear google, my dev g1 was stolen from my hand by a passing eprommer Nov 04 15:42:20 please send another Nov 04 15:42:23 live Nov 04 15:42:27 and let live Nov 04 15:42:35 well... you wouldn't need another... if they got the dump ok :) Nov 04 15:42:39 oyu could just get a produciton one :) Nov 04 15:42:41 languish: /me jealously guards his G1. Nov 04 15:42:47 lulz Nov 04 15:43:46 * Disconnect further stands by his opinion of the security policy.. Nov 04 15:43:53 ok im aboot to smoke a bowl and then play in root Nov 04 15:44:19 which is that it should have been reviewed by security techs -and- product people. instead of just being some dev's bright idea one morning. :) Nov 04 15:44:19 Disconnect, "WHAT sedcurity policy?" Nov 04 15:44:29 sekret winks and covert handshakes? Nov 04 15:45:04 "Thank you for the tip. It doesn't appear to be a root shell, BUT the process runs as root, which should be just as good as soon as I drop my own sshd in there... just have to compile for the right processor hehe..." Nov 04 15:45:32 it is totally root Nov 04 15:45:35 who said that? Nov 04 15:45:36 languish: the one that prevents backup apps, vpns, etc. (not the lack of review that resulted in telnetd being shipped to begin with, and as root no less) Nov 04 15:45:41 just type "id" Nov 04 15:45:48 I like that there is a /dev/sme27 or somethign that gives you raw NMEA Nov 04 15:45:50 which is cool Nov 04 15:45:59 ok what's nmea? Nov 04 15:46:07 You could take that and pipe it out to a bluetooth serial port and turn your phone into a poor mans Bluetooth GPS Nov 04 15:46:18 NMEA = GPS's txt protocol Nov 04 15:46:28 oic Nov 04 15:47:08 Disconnect, 'eh, i'm kinda confident it's google's way of wriggling withing the constricted bounds of t-mobnile, but shh remember, google never said that. Nov 04 15:47:24 i doubt it but its possible Nov 04 15:47:43 it benefits google for the g1 to be jailbroken as swiftly as possible Nov 04 15:47:46 [16:42:02] IT's on some protected partition from what I heard last night Nov 04 15:47:48 that is not proven until we check it out. :) Nov 04 15:47:50 it was just a suggestion from some devs Nov 04 15:47:50 True Nov 04 15:47:52 yes. Nov 04 15:47:57 'morning Nov 04 15:48:01 languish: not if they want other providers to pick up android it doesn't Nov 04 15:48:19 ...crap. anyone tested this on rc29? Nov 04 15:48:27 yes Nov 04 15:48:27 Disconnect yes Nov 04 15:48:33 Disconnect, well that's political.. anyway Nov 04 15:48:33 lol i was aboot to say Nov 04 15:48:42 one guy had a problem on an rc29 - but he re-upped it from the SD flash and it worked Nov 04 15:48:51 i knew there was something good about being to lazy to manually update (if you could only get root with rc19) Nov 04 15:48:57 Argh. Nov 04 15:49:01 android "works" on t-mobile, and consumer demand may force other carriers to get it Nov 04 15:49:13 their foots in the door Nov 04 15:49:15 Ok, can someone confirm this for me? Bitmap.Config only affects internal storage of a bitmap? Nov 04 15:49:19 regardless of what other carriers want Nov 04 15:49:22 I want to change mybot logo Nov 04 15:49:33 So there's no way to create a Bitmap aside from passing ARGB_8888? Nov 04 15:49:45 because if so that sucks horribly Nov 04 15:50:01 well now, put a toolchain together and compile an app to dump memory.. Nov 04 15:50:14 ... Nov 04 15:50:29 I think I have the toolchain Nov 04 15:51:23 If we could flash the HTC bootloader with a dev version, I would go buy a truckload of these phones and root them all Nov 04 15:51:27 put that thing away ryebrye Nov 04 15:51:28 and make them blink lights at me in my sleep Nov 04 15:51:32 :) Nov 04 15:52:28 RyeBrye: fwiw there is already a flash-partition-unlocker on arm (from nokia tablets and wrt routers and such) so "locked" might not matter unless its physically on a sep chip w/ no in-system reflash capability (can we say expensive?) Nov 04 15:52:39 cool Nov 04 15:52:56 RyeBrye: very nice, can you compile an app for this then? :) Nov 04 15:53:14 if this works out..i' might get a g1 :) Nov 04 15:53:17 cmonex - I think so... I should have asked ieatlint last night what he was doing for his cross compiles Nov 04 15:53:31 Disconnect: what is this flash partition unlocker? Nov 04 15:53:39 but I'm sure I can figure it out - I've got the cross compiler built - andoid's git source has one prebuilt for it Nov 04 15:53:54 sounds great Nov 04 15:54:32 sourcery toolchain can be used as cross compiler Nov 04 15:54:34 cmonex: mtd-tools 'mtd unlock {part}' Nov 04 15:54:55 android sources have a toolchain included, too (as already mentioned) Nov 04 15:55:00 hmm Disconnect and what is the result of that? Nov 04 15:55:13 I have an N810 by the way.. got it recently Nov 04 15:55:22 it makes a non-writable flash partition writable Nov 04 15:55:47 hm, sounds pretty good... bigger hole than what you have on windows mobile then! Nov 04 15:56:00 for this reason I find this hard to believe Nov 04 15:56:06 I've been a T-mobile customer for like... 6 years... if they have a problem with me having root I can find a new carrier Nov 04 15:56:09 does this hack also allow access to bootloader on n810? Nov 04 15:56:16 one that lets me "be who I am" ;) Nov 04 15:56:24 RyeBrye come to europe :) Nov 04 15:57:31 anyone really good with the android interfaces in XML? Nov 04 15:57:56 d0nets: I'm decent, why? Nov 04 15:58:00 d0nets: You mean like layouts? Nov 04 15:58:12 Is there a good wiki for G1 hacking yet? Nov 04 15:58:16 yea ttuttle Nov 04 15:58:20 can i pm you? Nov 04 15:58:21 ttuttle, he's on again about his guitar tuner app Nov 04 15:58:23 with entries of things like - changing the bootlogo... etc Nov 04 15:58:26 d0nets: What do you need? Nov 04 15:58:26 i have a buddy who is wiring me up a tuner app Nov 04 15:58:34 heh, what other xml based interfaces are there that i'm not aware of for Android? Nov 04 15:58:37 languish: Sounds cool to me. Nov 04 15:58:38 but he hasnt done any layouts yet Nov 04 15:58:54 unix_lappy: Well, not interfaces, but there are many other XML things. Nov 04 15:59:43 I know this whole rooting thing will have to be patched quickly... etc - but it's a shame... Nov 04 15:59:44 d0nets: i just wrote one Nov 04 15:59:48 it took me two hours Nov 04 16:00:01 :) j/k Nov 04 16:00:06 lol Nov 04 16:00:10 he said it wouldnt take long Nov 04 16:00:12 I know I can protect mine probably to keep it from being patched - but it's a good thing to have people be able to have the whole platorm available Nov 04 16:00:15 but he isnt sure about the interface Nov 04 16:00:17 yea, it shouldn't be that hard Nov 04 16:00:17 ttuttle|voted: yea...xml is fairly widely used...we're talking about interfaces though ;-) Nov 04 16:00:43 Because... I know I wont ever bitch again about something that I'm not willing to put serious time into fixing myself Nov 04 16:01:45 The fact that most of us have the same hardware means that writing device drivers... etc. wont be that important Nov 04 16:03:03 I wonder how long until Google has an official response Nov 04 16:03:07 RyeBrye, yo can you respond to my p.m. im about to go to sleep Nov 04 16:03:13 oh, sorry Nov 04 16:03:28 np Nov 04 16:06:31 ok weird, gonna try reflashing Nov 04 16:06:47 Disconnect - flashing RC29 or a custom? Nov 04 16:06:52 rc29 Nov 04 16:06:55 ok Nov 04 16:06:55 can't get telnetd to answer Nov 04 16:07:05 you are connecting over wifi, right? Nov 04 16:07:11 yah Nov 04 16:07:17 turn on the "never sleep" crap in your debug mode too Nov 04 16:07:22 * Disconnect has done this before :) Nov 04 16:07:24 its refusing connection Nov 04 16:07:33 ok, gotcha Nov 04 16:07:38 file a bug report :P Nov 04 16:08:10 * gambler time to meet the sandman Nov 04 16:09:12 heh Nov 04 16:09:18 "Telnetd sometimes doesn't accept connections. This sucks when I'm trying to get root on it and I can't. Please make this more reliable" Nov 04 16:09:27 hehe Nov 04 16:09:41 haha Nov 04 16:09:51 heh Nov 04 16:10:13 S Nov 04 16:11:44 I'm gonna shower, then start cross compiling some stuff Nov 04 16:11:52 someone should find a wiki place to document some basic stuff about this Nov 04 16:11:57 I want to change my logo.rle next :) Nov 04 16:13:22 I wonder if we compile mkyaffs2 or whatever to arm and we reformat our SD card to yaffs2 if we could use /sdcard as /data/apps Nov 04 16:13:31 or at lesat put a 1G yaffs2 partition on the SD card Nov 04 16:13:37 and use that as /data/apps Nov 04 16:13:44 ... and never swap the SD card of course Nov 04 16:13:48 what if we just did a code.google.com site Nov 04 16:13:51 YAFFS is *not* intended for fake block devices like SD cards! Nov 04 16:13:56 ok Nov 04 16:14:01 It's for *real* flash devices that don't have an emulation layer. Nov 04 16:14:06 Great Nov 04 16:14:10 now I need to root my SD card too! ;) Nov 04 16:14:17 ok... I guess that's a bad idea Nov 04 16:14:28 RyeBrye: Er, how do you root an SD card? That makes no sense. :-P Nov 04 16:14:37 I was kidding... Nov 04 16:14:39 RyeBrye: lol Nov 04 16:14:40 is anyone close to running apps from sd card? Nov 04 16:14:41 but if it can be done... Nov 04 16:14:50 RyeBrye: I mean, they've got microcontrollers, but... Nov 04 16:15:06 are there any other fs already in the kernel on android? Nov 04 16:15:12 You can root your SD card by typing dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/block/mmcblk0 Nov 04 16:15:13 ok this sucks. reflashed rc29, still no joy Nov 04 16:15:13 maybe just a non-lame fs would help Nov 04 16:15:14 have fun Nov 04 16:15:22 this is hardly rocket science :) Nov 04 16:15:40 mikez5: lol Nov 04 16:15:41 I already installed su and set suid on a few things so I can get root again if my telnet doesn't work Nov 04 16:15:43 mikez5: Don't troll them :-P Nov 04 16:16:14 until Google sends down the brick from on high and smites us all for trying to be like Gods Nov 04 16:16:39 doh. for some reason "cd system;cd bin; telnetd" is different from "/system/bin/telnetd" stupid g1 Nov 04 16:16:43 i need me a better busybox :) Nov 04 16:16:46 hi i didn't root my phone because i am a good boy Nov 04 16:16:52 i don't want google to be mad at me Nov 04 16:16:53 wastrel: Here, have a cookie. Nov 04 16:17:00 see yes! Nov 04 16:17:28 DISCLAIMER: THAT COOKIE IS IN NO WAY REPRESENTATIVE OF ANY PAST, PRESENT, OR FUTURE RELATIONSHIP THAT TTUTTLE HAS WITH GOOGLE. Nov 04 16:17:57 * ttuttle|voted is not authorized to hand out cookies in any official role. Nov 04 16:19:22 Since I did a phone screening interview with Google, can I hand out cookies too? Nov 04 16:19:24 :P Nov 04 16:19:36 RyeBrye: Sure, just don't put Google logos on them or anything. Nov 04 16:19:41 Good point Nov 04 16:19:45 * RyeBrye edits his cookies Nov 04 16:20:03 RyeBrye: Like I said, that cookie was given out as a personal gesture of appreciation, not a professional representation of my opinion as a past (and possibly future) Google intern and/or employee. Nov 04 16:20:12 morrildl: Greetings! Nov 04 16:20:38 RyeBrye: you have a writeup somewhere? :) Nov 04 16:22:07 fyi instead of breaking sh just do: http://pastebin.ca/1245017 Nov 04 16:22:21 (cp it to rootsh and chmod that instead) Nov 04 16:22:58 and of course http://benno.id.au/android/busybox Nov 04 16:22:59 Why, though? The sh binary is only used by adb, and there's no reason a cracked phone would ever want to expose a *non* root shell to the user. Nov 04 16:24:01 vote. Nov 04 16:24:04 And FWIW: has anyone checked that a factory reset bounces the phone back to R19 (think that was the version) and not the current version? If so, this will be very scary for TMO to patch around. Nov 04 16:24:12 http://ioerror.livejournal.com/495953.html last comment says otherwise.. Nov 04 16:24:27 Factory reset does not reset the phone to the original build, it just clears user data. Nov 04 16:24:40 (i know, comments on the interwebs..) Nov 04 16:25:38 er, sorry, that was a bin earlier. description page is http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/14/android-busybox Nov 04 16:26:17 ttuttle|voted: does the bootloader check versions? i don't recall seeing that it did. so sd-reflashing rc29 might be enough. Nov 04 16:26:20 OK, next question (probably can't be answered until the next update) is will the bootloader do a backwards update from the sdcard? If we can always flash back to R29, it's likewise hard to patch around. Nov 04 16:26:28 but i agree, disabling forced OTA is the first big problem. Nov 04 16:26:30 andyross: lol Nov 04 16:26:37 Disconnect: /me cannot help with this, sorry. Nov 04 16:28:41 thats kinda what i thought. Nov 04 16:29:40 Disconnect: Sorry. Future employment opportunities and all. Nov 04 16:30:20 yah good luck with that or whatever. i'm not that concerned. Nov 04 16:33:14 andyross - the upgrade modes DO check versions Nov 04 16:33:20 i.e. you can't flash an RC19 on an RC29 Nov 04 16:33:28 but you can reflash RC29 over itself Nov 04 16:33:42 one question... Nov 04 16:33:50 I'm going to see about building a custom recovery.img that has an extra "Flash unsigned" version that will just verify the manifest but no signatures Nov 04 16:33:51 what happened if you flashed a corrupt recovery.img ... Nov 04 16:34:03 Well... recovery should prevent that Nov 04 16:34:08 unless someone was really dumb Nov 04 16:34:13 and signed a corrupt installer Nov 04 16:34:17 no, Nov 04 16:34:22 see your own plan Nov 04 16:34:30 oh, me? Nov 04 16:34:35 yeah, I could screw myself over Nov 04 16:34:38 anyway, my theory is it will fall back to htc bootloader in that case Nov 04 16:34:38 Hrm... /systen/bin/telnetd not working for me. Just exits. Nov 04 16:34:41 caveat emptor Nov 04 16:34:44 will be interesting to see if this happens :P Nov 04 16:35:11 Maybe I'll wait to see if we can get the HTC bootloader flashed until I get this thing working Nov 04 16:35:12 it's ok on eng builds, they can just connect to fastboot and reflash from htc bootloader.. Nov 04 16:35:17 right Nov 04 16:35:22 not sure if the prod builds can at least access SD Nov 04 16:35:24 I do need a saftey net Nov 04 16:35:36 one thing is for sure - the SD read function is not removed Nov 04 16:35:45 oh wait, actually i have a question about this Nov 04 16:35:45 maybe I'll just put my sim card in my old phone, and just use wifi and block android.clients.google.com on my router Nov 04 16:35:50 andyross: cd system cd bin telnetd Nov 04 16:35:56 dunno why /system/bin/telnetd doesn't work Nov 04 16:36:05 RyeBrye: if you press camera + whatever to get to tricolour screen, with SD not inserted, do you see "Loading" or not? Nov 04 16:36:10 Yes Nov 04 16:36:16 with SD out? Nov 04 16:36:16 Loading... No image found! Nov 04 16:36:21 Oh. never tried it Nov 04 16:36:24 try please Nov 04 16:36:28 Ok, will do Nov 04 16:36:33 cool. can you try now? Nov 04 16:36:34 :) Nov 04 16:36:35 and um .. for the record.. maybe we shouldn't be working on how to further crack this while google and tmob are standing around? Nov 04 16:36:43 hehehe Nov 04 16:36:50 Nope, still no joy running it with cwd=/system/bin Nov 04 16:37:23 andyross: it exits but shows up in ps Nov 04 16:37:53 and of course oyu can telnet to it :) Nov 04 16:38:05 Nope, no telnetd in ps. Wonder what's different with my box. Nov 04 16:38:20 try reflashing with the SD RC29 update Nov 04 16:38:29 just for giggles Nov 04 16:38:36 I have an OTA R29. Maybe they're different? Nov 04 16:38:38 that fixed it for ieatlint last night Nov 04 16:38:54 he had an OTA 29 - but others have had OTA 29's and they've worked Nov 04 16:38:59 Hm. Nov 04 16:39:17 RyeBrye: ok, after reflashing, can you try? =) Nov 04 16:39:46 Just trying a reboot first. No time this morning to do a reflash, and I'm not going to be on a wifi network until this evening. Nov 04 16:40:47 andyross: it worked for me immediately after a reboot Nov 04 16:41:10 once i did the cd instead of just running /system/bin/telnetd Nov 04 16:41:25 Still curious about the mechanism. Clearly *something* has to be suid in the chain, because nothing else is going to elevate privileges. Maybe the real issue is that the phone's ls binary doesn't show the suid bit? But it does show sgid, so dunno. Nov 04 16:41:46 cmonex - yes Nov 04 16:41:55 RyeBrye yes what? :) Nov 04 16:41:59 comex - confirmed... the Loading... screen DOES NOT show up with no SD card in Nov 04 16:42:02 ah Nov 04 16:42:05 that is good Nov 04 16:42:07 but DOES with an SD card in and camera + poewr Nov 04 16:42:12 Yes, it is good Nov 04 16:42:13 so it can definitely see the SD card physically Nov 04 16:42:25 btw, identical behaviour in windows mobile based HTC devices Nov 04 16:42:27 We need to dump that loader somehow Nov 04 16:42:32 you get the Loading screen there too with SD in Nov 04 16:42:45 is it a grey screen? Nov 04 16:42:45 The readme file in the /development/pdk/ndk/readme reference android_ndk.tar.gz. But it is not available in the opensource. where can we get the NDK toolchain? Nov 04 16:42:48 yes Nov 04 16:42:50 grey with blue text Nov 04 16:42:52 hehe, exact same then Nov 04 16:42:54 :) Nov 04 16:43:01 then a split second later... "No image found!" or whatever Nov 04 16:43:16 Ah well, no luck. Will try again tonight. Nov 04 16:43:20 yeah, hmm, and it doesnt really look for a DREAIMG.NBH, does it? Nov 04 16:43:27 on a FAT32 formatted SD of course Nov 04 16:43:34 It didn't for me, no Nov 04 16:43:42 It still said the same thing Nov 04 16:43:43 ok, so they use some different files now Nov 04 16:43:45 :/ Nov 04 16:43:59 the sd was formatted fat32? on other htc devices that's a requirement Nov 04 16:44:03 Yes, it was Nov 04 16:44:05 ok Nov 04 16:44:09 that's the only file format that Android supports Nov 04 16:44:11 then it's not NBH for sure Nov 04 16:44:11 for SDcard IIRC Nov 04 16:44:13 oh Nov 04 16:44:21 i thought it was using some exotic linux fs for it :P Nov 04 16:44:22 I can try with the other SD card that has a different partition table style Nov 04 16:44:26 No, not for the SD card Nov 04 16:44:28 yeah, give it a try Nov 04 16:44:34 htc bootloaders are a bit picky Nov 04 16:44:47 Ok Nov 04 16:45:04 I'll try it in a few minutes Nov 04 16:45:06 I've got to go vote Nov 04 16:45:07 ok, cool Nov 04 16:45:26 cmonex: no if it used linux fs it would be possible to install apps to it Nov 04 16:45:57 the only fs compiled in are yaffs2 and fat32, right? Nov 04 16:46:05 uh, Disconnect, so it wont install apps on it eh? Nov 04 16:46:18 my N810 has same issue though, so dont bash only google for this :) Nov 04 16:46:31 I'm not bashing google at all about anything now :) Nov 04 16:47:06 Google++ Nov 04 16:47:10 i said that to Disconnect :) Nov 04 16:47:22 but yeah, some of the things (limitations) mentioned sound pretty bad.. Nov 04 16:47:25 does anyone know where to download the NDK toolchain android_ndk.tar.gz Nov 04 16:49:30 anyone get headphones for the G1 that have a button that works? Nov 04 16:49:38 othr than the ones that come with the G1 :) Nov 04 16:49:48 so on an unrelated note, other than salling media sync ($) or http://dougscripts.com/itunes/scripts/ss.php?sp=syncplaylistfilestofolder (all files, 1 folder, no good) is there a decent itunes->g1 syncer yet? Nov 04 16:50:02 michaelnovakjr: presumably any htc headphones, although it sounds like not so much Nov 04 16:50:33 yea Disconnect i was trying to avoid HTC headphones, wasnt sure if anyone else made headphones with the button Nov 04 16:50:43 yes but nobody else makes headphones with the usb Nov 04 16:51:12 Disconnect: that's fine, i picked up the adapter Nov 04 16:51:31 some of the adapters are very compact Nov 04 16:51:48 is it a stereo+headset adapter? some of them don't pass all the pins Nov 04 16:52:01 mine is just a little elbow-shaped piece Nov 04 16:52:07 yeah itls only audio Nov 04 16:52:11 it's Nov 04 16:52:16 yea it was like 2 bucks.... Disconnect have you gotten other headphones yet? Nov 04 16:52:31 haven't gotten a working adapter yet. the 3-way one causes the music player to have epileptic fits. Nov 04 16:52:34 but a slightly bigger one has breakouts for audio and usb Nov 04 16:54:40 i'd like the music player to fade when a call comes in Nov 04 16:54:52 easier transition Nov 04 16:55:35 beware - some of the HTC headsets do not work Nov 04 16:56:11 One of my coworkers bought an HTC headset that had media player buttons (pause, play, etc) but G1 could not detect it. Nov 04 16:57:17 has anyone downloaded and played around with the NDK toolchain? Nov 04 16:57:54 Hmm... that is interesting - how does HTC expose those things extra pins to the OS? Nov 04 16:58:02 mowgli: ndk? not sdk? Nov 04 16:58:10 mikez5 - I wonder if it was just an issue of theG1 not listenng for the mdia player buttons? Nov 04 16:58:53 The electrical signals are different, and the kernel driver does not support it. Nov 04 16:59:08 So the device doesn't know the headphones are there, and routes audio to the speaker instead. Nov 04 16:59:34 The kernel driver might not support it - but does the G1 hardware even see it? (i.e. could it in theory be supported in the kernel driver?) Nov 04 17:00:15 disconnect: the open source tree had a ndk Nov 04 17:00:22 There have also been problems with false button press events with some of the headphone adaptors (which can result in the music player starting/stopping when you connect the adaptor). Nov 04 17:00:34 android_root/development/pdk/ndk Nov 04 17:00:43 But for the most part, the simple adaptors designed for other HTC phones seem to work. Nov 04 17:01:05 mikez5: what would cause it to twitch, switch songs and jump back to the main 'artist playlist songs' etc screen, losing track of what it was playing? Nov 04 17:01:13 Also, the binary-only blobs in the G1 source tree... like the thing for the compass - I wonder how hard it would be to create an open-source version of some of those pieces (not for google to do... but possibly for one of us...) Nov 04 17:01:15 (cuz its not ff/rw, those seem to maintain at least some istory) Nov 04 17:01:17 RyeBrye: I'm not sure if supporting that headset is possible, or would require hardware change. Nov 04 17:01:26 mikez5 - gotcha Nov 04 17:01:37 The readme file under android_root/development/pdk/ndk references the NDK toolchain android_ndk.tar.gz Nov 04 17:01:58 ok... I've read up on the ballot issues... etc. - time to vote Nov 04 17:02:10 Hey, did everyone else know this was a presidential election year? Nov 04 17:02:13 mowgli: sounds like outdated documentation to me. Nov 04 17:02:54 lol RyeBrye Nov 04 17:03:04 ive tried to avoid the fact, but its true Nov 04 17:03:27 mowgli: the toolchain you're looking for is somewhere in the source tree (I don't know the location off-hand) Nov 04 17:06:22 jbq: are you refering to /root/prebuilt/linux-x86/toolchain/arm-eabi-4.2.1 Nov 04 17:06:38 something like this, yes. Nov 04 17:07:05 so the whole pdk section under development is obsolete? Nov 04 17:07:51 I haven't read it in detail, so I wouldn't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the non-SDK doc in the source tree was outdated. Nov 04 17:08:25 Disconnect: yeah, the bogus button events could cause the music player to do crazy things Nov 04 17:08:33 mikez5: sigh. sw fix or hw fix? Nov 04 17:08:52 Anything that's designed to help people work without source tree access went obsolete as soon as the source tree got released. Nov 04 17:09:00 * Disconnect points to all the doubters yesterday "oh music works fine blah blah" and goes pthththtthhth :) Nov 04 17:09:03 I'm not sure Nov 04 17:09:18 Music works fine, it's your stupid headset adapters that don't :) Nov 04 17:09:39 marcone: i still lay that on the g1, same adapter works fine on other htc phones Nov 04 17:09:52 * Disconnect should try that specific physical item on a different phone soon tho Nov 04 17:10:50 FYI - the driver that handles the headset detect and button events is arch/arm/mach-msm/board-trout-h2w.c Nov 04 17:11:13 and now that i've got root it should be possible to reflash.. :) Nov 04 17:11:36 anyone know off the top of their heads if the bootloader does sig verification on boot? or just on flash? Nov 04 17:12:14 Someone at HTC would know. Nov 04 17:12:26 The fact that some random adapter doesn't work with the G1 just means that that adapter doesn't behave according to spec. Now admittedly, HTC has lots of different adapters, and doesn't like sharing how they work. But still: the adapter that came with your phone works, some other adapter doesn't. Blame that adapter. Nov 04 17:12:57 marcone: erm, no adapter came with my phone. but thanks for playing :) Nov 04 17:13:05 The flaw there, of course, is that phones came with no adapter... Nov 04 17:13:16 (what Disconnect said) Nov 04 17:13:22 ..no adapter, no stereo bt support, etc Nov 04 17:13:44 there is no way to get music off the phone into anything other than a wired phone-call headset. (well or as files over usb which is less useful) Nov 04 17:13:56 yeah, stupid custom connector Nov 04 17:14:07 does the g1 use the same small blade usb connection that like ALL other htc phones use? Nov 04 17:14:13 i just recently bought an adapter for my car that is working well Nov 04 17:14:21 yes Nov 04 17:14:31 Gigawatts: it looks physically the same, but obviously it doesn't behave exactly the same. Nov 04 17:14:32 though i have yet to say that i am satisfied with the sound quality. i need to experiment more :) Nov 04 17:14:55 :P I have the htc star-trek, and i hate that connector Nov 04 17:15:25 Disconnect: the irony is that you complain about headsets adapters that don't always work, and that's the reason why bt stereo isn't present... Nov 04 17:15:37 im also waiting for an android port, to ditch wimo :) Nov 04 17:16:01 jbq: the issue i have is that it has no way to get audio out.. not that this adapter or that profile is missing. Nov 04 17:16:22 Disconnect: do you want to know the adapter i bought? :) Nov 04 17:16:36 it supports power + audio out, i just hooked it up in my car yesterday Nov 04 17:16:52 i have the 3way in my eeep, thats the one that went wacko Nov 04 17:17:01 mine isnt 3 way Nov 04 17:17:12 i bought a more compact one which supports only power + 3.5mm Nov 04 17:17:15 it was only $8 Nov 04 17:17:25 and a car charger for $7 :) Nov 04 17:17:48 then it came to me in a shady-looking box from hong kong that the USPS found highly suspect and made me provide all kinds of identification to pick up Nov 04 17:17:52 but hey, it works :) Nov 04 17:17:52 jbq: so the pdk section under development which talks abt device.git and kernel.git is no more valid? Nov 04 17:18:24 mowgli: that's possible (likely in fact). I'm not familiar with that specific part of the documentation. Nov 04 17:19:25 jbq: how can I confirm this? It looks like we need special permissions from google account managers to download the device and kernel.git files Nov 04 17:20:19 I don't know what you're trying to achieve, and specifically I don't know what you're trying to achieve that the open-source tree doesn't let you do. Nov 04 17:21:22 jbq: i just want to confirm that the pdk is not something specific for OEMs which require approvals from google account managers Nov 04 17:22:43 jbq: and also the fact(?) that the pdk was probably meant for distribution to OHA folks before the open source was released Nov 04 17:22:47 mowgli: as far as I know everything that an OEM needs should be in the open-source tree (including the appropriate licenses). If it's not the case, that's a bug. Nov 04 17:27:06 jbq: thanks. can you confirm with folks in you team that the PDK section under the opensource is infact obsolete. i was mislead for one looking at the PDK documentation that the OEMs need special approvals in getting device.git and kernel.git referenced in the PDK docs Nov 04 17:27:59 mowgli: your safest bet is to file a bug - that'll leave a trace that can be acted on. Thanks :) Nov 04 17:28:36 jbq: will do thanks. Nov 04 17:29:46 does anyone know how much space flickr gives you? Nov 04 17:30:27 1TB L( Nov 04 17:30:29 :) Nov 04 17:30:36 its the cloud man Nov 04 17:30:44 are you serious? Nov 04 17:30:57 nope j/k Nov 04 17:31:00 i have no idea Nov 04 17:31:02 lol Nov 04 17:31:04 bust. Nov 04 17:31:08 haha sorry : Nov 04 17:31:11 :) Nov 04 17:31:15 i figured you were lying... google's photo manager only gives you 1gig Nov 04 17:31:22 that's pretty good Nov 04 17:31:32 not for 10 mp pictures... Nov 04 17:31:33 lol Nov 04 17:31:42 jbq: is this the rt place to log the bug for tracking? http://code.google.com/p/android/updates/list Nov 04 17:31:45 Flickr gives you 200 MB Nov 04 17:31:48 for free account Nov 04 17:31:52 unlimited for pro accounts Nov 04 17:32:02 how much is pro? Nov 04 17:32:08 mowgli: you're looking for b.android.com Nov 04 17:32:26 (which currently redirects to http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list ) Nov 04 17:32:29 how do i see what ip my g1 is using Nov 04 17:32:39 Dougie187: $25 per year if I remember correctly Nov 04 17:32:51 d0nets: www.whatismyip.com Nov 04 17:32:56 do they have a size restriction for pictures? Nov 04 17:32:58 local ip Nov 04 17:33:00 if im using wifi Nov 04 17:33:35 which to me is totally worth it Nov 04 17:33:58 romainguy___: do you know if they have a size restriction on pictures? Nov 04 17:34:05 in pixels or mb? Nov 04 17:36:25 nobody knows how to see my local ip? Nov 04 17:36:37 romainguy__ is there an app for flickr yet Nov 04 17:36:38 im trying to telnet in to test out the root access Nov 04 17:36:51 check your router Nov 04 17:36:57 bleh ok Nov 04 17:37:10 i dont know the android software well enough to answer you, sorry Nov 04 17:37:43 d0nets - go to setings -> wireless -> wifi - then tap on the hting you are already connected to Nov 04 17:38:00 the dialog box comes up and it tells you Connected / speed/ signal strength / security / IP address Nov 04 17:38:10 thanks Nov 04 17:38:16 I think the picture could not be more than 10,000 pixels large Nov 04 17:38:16 but I seem to recall they changed that policy Nov 04 17:38:16 suffice it to say that I never had any trouble Nov 04 17:38:19 I upload 2 to 3 MB jpeg files all the time Nov 04 17:38:22 i long pressed but didnt try tapping Nov 04 17:38:30 michaelnovakjr: on Android? Nov 04 17:38:38 yep Nov 04 17:38:50 romainguy - that last bit of images in photostream are really nice Nov 04 17:39:00 ok looks like android.location.manager is busted in sdk1.0. many people complain about it in android-beginners forum Nov 04 17:39:06 michaelnovakjr: the only one I know of is the one I wrote but it's very limited Nov 04 17:39:09 anyone run into issues where the Eclipse layout editor does not render the same as the emulator or on real hardware? Nov 04 17:39:10 thenks Nov 04 17:39:15 thanks Nov 04 17:39:17 * spikebike checks in Nov 04 17:39:23 cool Nov 04 17:39:26 all seems pretty quite Nov 04 17:39:27 the layout editor is how I want it, but when run, it's not the same at all Nov 04 17:39:40 tweakt: i have issues where the layout editor sucks down 1.5 gigs of ram, does that count? Nov 04 17:39:41 Does the internal camera automatically geotag the images in the EXIF? I haven't checked yet Nov 04 17:39:51 Disconnect, well, besides that ;-) Nov 04 17:40:03 tweakt: weird, because the layout editor runs the actual framework code Nov 04 17:40:20 my table layout is being expanded Nov 04 17:40:28 in width Nov 04 17:41:00 I'm probably doing things wrong, but I'm learning how I always do, by experimenting and seeing what happens Nov 04 17:42:56 Disconnect: well you're lucky you're not on windows where that's half of the amount of RAM that you can use :-P Nov 04 17:51:01 im looking for a netbeans plugin for android, i heard about undroid but i can't find an actual download link on their page - can someone point me in the right direction? Nov 04 17:51:38 actually before i start, i should ask if it has an emulator of sorts, some way of testing code, because i can't afford the G1 right now but I'd still like to play around Nov 04 17:51:58 does anyone know if it's possible to play sound through a phone connection in sdk 1.0? Nov 04 17:52:56 themime: there is, in the SDK Nov 04 17:54:22 RyeBrye, whats new? Nov 04 17:54:34 root wewt Nov 04 17:54:36 word Nov 04 17:54:39 so, no? Nov 04 17:55:03 i know abvout that Nov 04 17:55:04 romainguy___: an emulator or plugin? Nov 04 17:55:08 wondering what anyone has done with root lol Nov 04 17:55:16 nothin Nov 04 17:55:26 i just did "ls" Nov 04 17:55:27 themime: he left Nov 04 17:55:27 RyeBrye, ever get nano compiled? Nov 04 17:55:30 im l337 Nov 04 17:55:38 there is an emulator in the SDK Nov 04 17:55:55 I have the undroid plugin for Netbeans, but it's not really usable with the current sdk Nov 04 17:55:57 * Disconnect stuck busybox up there (in /system/busybox) and is letting the sources build so he can suborn the toolchain into building dropbear Nov 04 17:56:17 just as easy to get eclipse ganymead and get the plugin for it Nov 04 17:56:24 works better (for now) too Nov 04 17:56:37 Disconnect, is busybox better then the toolbox? Nov 04 17:56:48 yep Nov 04 17:56:56 cool Nov 04 17:57:11 kslater: hmm i guess i might try it then. i used jcreator then netbeans for a class and have been mostly using that one since, i was hoping not to learn a new IDE, but the curve on them isn't bad, and ive heard good things about eclipse anyway Nov 04 17:57:13 its designed as a multicall binary that can be wedged into tiny places and still provide a reasonable interface (either user interface or scripts) Nov 04 17:57:13 just dont change the existing symlinks, the toolbox has unusual command syntax for soem commands Nov 04 17:57:19 might break stuff like mount etc Nov 04 17:57:20 duh :) Nov 04 17:57:40 i know, my nec900c has busybox (debian) Nov 04 17:57:47 themime: you can use NetBeans without a plugin Nov 04 17:57:48 themime: believe me, Netbeans is my preferred IDE, if there was an easy way to use, I would Nov 04 17:57:55 themime: I use IntelliJ without a plugin Nov 04 17:57:58 true Nov 04 17:57:59 the SDK comes with a project generator Nov 04 17:58:04 based on Ant Nov 04 17:58:06 but you don't get the nice integration Nov 04 17:58:08 and NetBeans likes ant Nov 04 17:58:13 bah Nov 04 17:58:18 lol Nov 04 17:58:42 us old dudes like things as easy as possible Nov 04 17:59:02 it's really not much harder ^^ Nov 04 17:59:02 so I guess no one knows how to play sound through a phone line... so much for androidredbox I guess Nov 04 17:59:09 I meant android soundboard. Nov 04 17:59:21 uluatu: ping, any success with freerunner? Nov 04 17:59:26 yea i wanted a soundboard Nov 04 17:59:32 it would be cool to download boards from the intarweb Nov 04 17:59:39 like an arnold soundboar Nov 04 17:59:40 d Nov 04 17:59:42 d0nets: exactly.. but is it supported in the API? Nov 04 17:59:42 or bush Nov 04 18:00:15 dunno Nov 04 18:00:26 api? Nov 04 18:00:35 in the sdk Nov 04 18:00:37 jreznik: none.... Nov 04 18:00:45 im not sure Nov 04 18:00:54 jreznik: people are saying that the problem is related to the uSD card Nov 04 18:01:07 it should have an empty ext3 partition. Nov 04 18:01:19 I did that, but with no success either. Nov 04 18:02:03 ok, thanks for info Nov 04 18:02:19 ill try out eclipse, ive been meaning to anyway, the reason i used it before is because i was doing java ME for mobile phone game development and netbeans had good support for the necessary plugins used for that Nov 04 18:02:38 s/used it/used netbeans/ Nov 04 18:02:39 themime meant: ill try out eclipse, ive been meaning to anyway, the reason i used netbeans before is because i was doing java ME for mobile phone game development and netbeans had good support for the necessary plugins used for that Nov 04 18:02:48 haha, weird Nov 04 18:06:03 * andyross reading scrollback: just read the generated build.xml once to figure out the tools and write your own makefile. If you try to change your development environment just to avoid learning something, the terrorists have already won. Nov 04 18:06:51 DarkriftX, where did you get that rendered Android logo for your forum? Did you come up with that, or did you get it from somewhere else? Nov 04 18:07:08 someone made it for me Nov 04 18:07:14 no idea what they did Nov 04 18:07:23 it was a graphics forum Nov 04 18:07:43 they made me some decent sigs to but they look like crap on vb forums Nov 04 18:08:34 ah, ok, b/c i had found this (http://richd.com/images/2007/android-rendered.jpg) a while ago, and always thought it would be cool to have a much larger version, for a wallpaper Nov 04 18:08:51 and i saw your forum logo, an was like "hey! thats teh same dude!" Nov 04 18:09:02 lol, its exactly the same Nov 04 18:09:07 just shrunk Nov 04 18:09:11 yeah, thats why i asked Nov 04 18:10:31 wow, hes good Nov 04 18:10:35 that would be an awesome wallpaper, if the view was zoomed out a bit, and showed a few more of them Nov 04 18:10:41 should pm him and ask for a big version lol Nov 04 18:10:53 erm s/pm/email/ Nov 04 18:10:57 yeah, i was browsing his site last week, some impressive stuff Nov 04 18:11:08 yeah, i couldnt find an email address on his page though Nov 04 18:11:47 wow, eclipse is sexy Nov 04 18:12:17 themime: no, it's not :) Nov 04 18:12:20 odd Nov 04 18:12:35 what are you forums darkriftx Nov 04 18:12:41 android-dls Nov 04 18:12:47 .com Nov 04 18:13:21 you could probably take a shot in the dark and assume that his email is rich@richd.com Nov 04 18:13:25 lol Nov 04 18:13:27 lol Nov 04 18:13:31 or maybe he has a catchall Nov 04 18:13:48 * DarkriftX has to get ready for work :( Nov 04 18:13:54 and i cant irc from work, just forums Nov 04 18:14:05 and nothing is going on in the xda-devs forums so ill be out of the loop all day Nov 04 18:14:21 yea thats where im lurking atm Nov 04 18:14:23 xda Nov 04 18:14:46 well, enjoy work Nov 04 18:15:26 have you seen ganymede? at the very least its aesthetically pleasing Nov 04 18:15:46 thats what she said Nov 04 18:15:57 =P Nov 04 18:16:48 themime: I always found Eclipse weird looking Nov 04 18:17:02 they try to look native but then do weird shit like their rounded tabs Nov 04 18:22:09 hrmm, a web tethering app? Nov 04 18:22:15 what was the original price of the G1 from tmobile? Nov 04 18:22:49 d0nets, the SDK can let you tether Nov 04 18:24:16 it was 399 right? Nov 04 18:24:24 oh really damm? Nov 04 18:24:25 i wasnt sure Nov 04 18:24:29 without a plan, that sounds right Nov 04 18:24:33 yea you run it t hrough the debug bridge i think Nov 04 18:24:49 http://www.android-unleashed.com/2008/11/howto-tether-your-g1-to-your-pc-or.html Nov 04 18:25:48 yep Nov 04 18:26:01 pretty weak way Nov 04 18:26:02 but it works Nov 04 18:28:02 w00t, 251 peeps Nov 04 18:28:05 I think this is a new high Nov 04 18:28:19 and you killed it Nov 04 18:28:22 back to 250 Nov 04 18:28:28 damnit Nov 04 18:28:31 lol Nov 04 18:28:42 i think it will grow a lot bigger once the root news spreads more Nov 04 18:28:49 no /. yet Nov 04 18:29:52 morrildl: how many of the near 250 voted to start chan logging? Nov 04 18:30:04 unix_lappy: I was just going to look :) Nov 04 18:30:30 how many people log it on their local machines without asking for permission? :) Nov 04 18:30:42 jbq: er, you don't need permission for that. Nov 04 18:30:43 there is no chan logging yet? Nov 04 18:30:46 jbq: publicly available logs. Nov 04 18:30:46 I don't need permission Nov 04 18:30:51 jbq: It's just poor form to share them. Nov 04 18:31:46 14 opposed, 28 don't mind Nov 04 18:31:47 Does an working IRC client exist for android? Nov 04 18:32:14 16% voter turnout :) Nov 04 18:32:15 soon mattgyver83 Nov 04 18:32:25 mattgyver83: there's an ssh client for now... Nov 04 18:32:29 Or an IRC server? :-) Nov 04 18:32:30 mattgyver83: connectbot + screen +bitchx Nov 04 18:32:32 im sure someone will compile a command line one going Nov 04 18:32:43 ivantis: I think it was you who wanted to start the web log, right? Nov 04 18:32:57 What command line tools do we want? I'm building nano now Nov 04 18:33:03 ivantis: looks like the predominant view is that it's okay Nov 04 18:33:16 nano, su, groups, passwd Nov 04 18:33:16 ifconfig! Nov 04 18:33:19 bitchx Nov 04 18:33:28 ifconfig is there Nov 04 18:33:32 doh Nov 04 18:33:34 su is already built by the git tree Nov 04 18:33:39 chgrp Nov 04 18:33:42 does android ship with ncurses? Nov 04 18:33:52 anything else that is needed but missing lol Nov 04 18:33:55 unix_lappy: no Nov 04 18:33:57 yeah, i dont exactly have a g1, so im out of the loop Nov 04 18:34:02 :P Nov 04 18:34:39 hmm... nano is being a bit of a bugger to cross-compile... Nov 04 18:34:53 RyeBrye: where are you getting your sources from? Nov 04 18:35:02 android or nano? Nov 04 18:35:07 nano Nov 04 18:35:23 rye mornin Nov 04 18:35:28 or pico Nov 04 18:35:36 works the same Nov 04 18:35:42 ed! Nov 04 18:35:44 ;-) Nov 04 18:35:45 I'm not sure... but I jsut realized I grabbed the unstable branch Nov 04 18:35:49 or hell, go all out and port vi Nov 04 18:35:49 morning spikebike Nov 04 18:36:04 any news? Nov 04 18:36:19 spikebike: other than root? Nov 04 18:36:38 would be interesting to see if you could get the dependencies sorted out how much of the debian arm project would port over. Nov 04 18:37:49 is android using a debian-ish system? Nov 04 18:38:10 Gigawatts: that can mean many things Nov 04 18:38:18 Gigawatts: fortunately the answer is always 'no' Nov 04 18:38:19 :) Nov 04 18:38:23 morrildl: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23android/20081103.html.gz Nov 04 18:38:25 yeah, i know Nov 04 18:38:26 ok Nov 04 18:38:50 Android doesn't use dpkg, nor is it SysV-style init like Debian is (IIRC) Nov 04 18:38:56 Android is also not BSD-style init :) Nov 04 18:39:08 morrildl: Don't forget the entirely different libc. Nov 04 18:39:13 That too Nov 04 18:39:21 :P Nov 04 18:39:26 * Disconnect looks at the topic.. all the more reason to do device-hacking somewhere else Nov 04 18:39:56 Disconnect: why? any channel can be logged, and this one might have been all along even without us knowing Nov 04 18:40:09 Hint: click on the link I posted 8 lines up. Nov 04 18:40:11 yep. but now its a policy. Nov 04 18:40:13 We're just warning people that it might now be logged where it was not previously Nov 04 18:40:19 (jasta told me about that yesterday) Nov 04 18:40:28 GUYS I FIGURED OUT HOW TO FLASH YOUR OWN BUILDS ON RETAIL PHONES Nov 04 18:40:35 DannyB: dd? Nov 04 18:41:00 hmm, me takes a stab....upstart? Nov 04 18:41:34 details? Nov 04 18:41:46 or just excietment? Nov 04 18:42:00 ..or a joke Nov 04 18:42:52 or narcalepsy? Nov 04 18:45:58 dayyb freal? Nov 04 18:46:03 dannyb* Nov 04 18:46:37 would i lie Nov 04 18:46:49 DannyB: apparently :) Nov 04 18:46:54 lies Nov 04 18:47:10 well, give us a reason to think otherwise Nov 04 18:47:16 morrildl: Did i say retail phone I meant my PVT :) Nov 04 18:47:44 fastboot -w baby Nov 04 18:47:46 :) Nov 04 18:47:57 pvt? Nov 04 18:48:23 man, record voting turnouts Nov 04 18:49:27 Hmm... getting nano on there is a bit involved. I've got to get ncurses first, which is also a bit involved :) Nov 04 18:49:52 ncurses isn't too hard Nov 04 18:50:02 i did it during dev days Nov 04 18:50:04 same with stlport Nov 04 18:50:06 cool Nov 04 18:50:18 Did you have to point it to include android kernel headers... etc>? Nov 04 18:50:23 can you define pvt? Nov 04 18:50:24 yes Nov 04 18:50:39 you can use the linux headers or the bionic headers Nov 04 18:50:50 if you use the bionic headers you will have to hack them up a bit to get it to ignore the wchar stuff Nov 04 18:50:50 etc Nov 04 18:51:21 Gigawatts: basically, one of the last hardware revs before shipping Nov 04 18:52:38 ah Nov 04 18:52:39 ok Nov 04 18:52:50 Yeah, I don't think retail phones have fastboot, do they? Nov 04 18:53:21 there is nothing that prevents it from running on retail phones Nov 04 18:53:30 only the fact that the bootloader with fastboot is not installed Nov 04 18:56:35 thus the need fore root Nov 04 18:56:43 spikebike: root would not help Nov 04 18:56:45 root doesn't help you here at all Nov 04 18:56:53 in fact, root gives you absolutely nothing on this device Nov 04 18:57:04 mtd-tools might Nov 04 18:57:06 nothing? Nov 04 18:57:07 it is a massive waste of time to hunt root Nov 04 18:57:08 DannyB: ...except the ability to screw up your device :) Nov 04 18:57:20 DannyB: its a waste to hunt because its been gotten already. but moving right along.. :) Nov 04 18:57:21 morrildl: sure, but in terms of flashing a new image Nov 04 18:57:29 right Nov 04 18:57:42 Is there a way to set the device name for android? Nov 04 18:57:46 root is convenient for certain forms of debugging, people aren't wrong to want root for development devices Nov 04 18:57:59 but currently the retail devices restrict root for user security Nov 04 18:58:01 DannyB: with root i can (to beat the same drum) backup my data and use vpn software. i can also (potentially) flash testing, development or debug versions of android or the core apps. Nov 04 18:58:19 what makes you think you can flash stuff just because you have root Nov 04 18:58:29 anyone try and arp poison android Nov 04 18:58:36 Disconnect: the bootloader is not accessible to the running system at all, root or not Nov 04 18:58:47 also nothing prevents you from running vpn software without root Nov 04 18:58:55 DannyB: yes it does Nov 04 18:58:55 AFAIK Nov 04 18:59:09 or iptables Nov 04 18:59:10 I can get raw NMEA out of the GPS with one command Nov 04 18:59:14 You can't access the needed sysctls to fool around with the routing table as non-root Nov 04 18:59:17 ah Nov 04 18:59:22 has anyone made a better terminal app than pterminal Nov 04 18:59:23 i thought there was a perm to enable that Nov 04 18:59:24 or replace any binary Nov 04 18:59:27 i hate the iface Nov 04 18:59:28 DannyB: not in 1.0 Nov 04 18:59:37 my bad Nov 04 18:59:39 the RIGHT thing to do would be add a sane API for it Nov 04 18:59:50 in any case, root will not let you replace the bootloader, which is what you really need to do here Nov 04 19:00:01 of course, you could always just use a flash programmer Nov 04 19:00:05 if you really cared Nov 04 19:00:05 DannyB: you can't alter routes, raise or lower virtual interfaces, etc without root.(as said earlier) Nov 04 19:00:05 but Nov 04 19:00:09 DannyB: indeed Nov 04 19:00:17 Disconnect: in 1.0 you are right, my bad Nov 04 19:00:20 and in general with security software (such as ssh or vpn) its -much- better to leverage an upstream source than to rewrite it Nov 04 19:00:21 There are 2 'bootloaders' working here... The HTC one and then the Android one Nov 04 19:00:23 DannyB: but that would violate the warranty ;) Nov 04 19:00:42 morrildl: so did the toilet :( Nov 04 19:01:17 RyeBrye: there is only one bootloader. It boots Linux Nov 04 19:01:26 right Nov 04 19:01:34 Linux starts init, init fires up the Dalvik zygote, etc. Nov 04 19:01:48 is it possible to unlock the g1 without paying? Nov 04 19:02:03 most definately Nov 04 19:02:03 tmobile will give you unlock codes if you have been a customer for long enough Nov 04 19:02:05 HTC bootloader -> linux -> init which then if it's recovery mode will open up the recovery mode... Nov 04 19:02:08 right? Nov 04 19:02:09 we'll find that out soon Nov 04 19:02:13 is overwritten during boot Nov 04 19:02:17 Phlogi: i did, just called 611 and asked. Nov 04 19:02:18 i consider root unlocked Nov 04 19:02:19 lol Nov 04 19:02:30 not sure if we can control / Nov 04 19:02:31 you guys are hilarious Nov 04 19:02:43 Disconnect: what is 611? Nov 04 19:02:49 cust svc Nov 04 19:03:05 it's like 911, but upside down Nov 04 19:03:11 how long do u have to have tmo before they unlock? Nov 04 19:03:14 90 days? Nov 04 19:03:17 90 days I think Nov 04 19:03:18 thats 116 Nov 04 19:03:22 :) Nov 04 19:03:24 shitty Nov 04 19:03:35 Gigawatts: not if you turn each number individually Nov 04 19:03:53 pssh, i was rotating the whole thing Nov 04 19:04:13 odd vs. even symmetry Nov 04 19:04:16 Write it on a piece of glass, then flip the glass over and view it from behind. Nov 04 19:04:27 reflect through a point, or reflect through a line/plane ;) Nov 04 19:04:38 View your reflection in a spoon. Nov 04 19:04:53 another bad voice call :p Nov 04 19:04:59 ionstorm: unlock-tmobileg1.com only charges $25 or so I think. Nov 04 19:05:09 caller couldn't hear me. i blame google Nov 04 19:05:16 i'll wait for the keygen Nov 04 19:05:30 Instead of having people say "I want root" for applications like VPN or backups (which, as far as I'm concerned, are legitimate applications), I'd much prefer to see the energy spent in creating the appropriate system APIs, with the appropriate permissions, that will allow such apps to be developed securely. Nov 04 19:05:38 right Nov 04 19:05:48 Yeah, I'm all for that too Nov 04 19:05:53 if you submit patches to create a VPN api, we'd happily accept them (after some design discussion, etc) Nov 04 19:07:07 In my spare time, I code stuff that helps me out... and pushign something upstream that will take 6 months to get back to my device doesn't help me out much Nov 04 19:07:32 but... if I can put something together, build my own tree, and use it locally while the patch is waitign approval...e tc. - it helps me and it helps other sout Nov 04 19:08:03 plus I like to make the blue light blink Nov 04 19:08:12 ..so i should throw away upstream security knowledge and investment and rewrite my vpn of choice in java with android apis? given what we know about android and security... heh. no. Nov 04 19:08:59 I think he was saying if you write it low-level and get it in the tree, you could expose APIs to it that would help do stuff in the Java layer Nov 04 19:09:02 anyone knows how this locking is done technically? Nov 04 19:09:35 Phlogi: its intrinsic to the gsm hardware Nov 04 19:10:25 you need a legit unlock code, period. (or gsm firmware and the ability to write it, which is what happened to the iphone. but thats unlikely to do any more than destroy the radio, assuming you can get in there to begin with) Nov 04 19:10:49 ok I see... and that code is specific to the phone or what? Nov 04 19:10:50 I like the idea of android as a platform and the benefits of application portability goes without saying... I would never write an application to distribute on the linux layer of the phone - that would be dumb Nov 04 19:11:11 no it wouldnt Nov 04 19:11:16 u could run apache or a server Nov 04 19:11:35 or whatever Nov 04 19:11:36 I wouldn't distribute that though Nov 04 19:12:15 Disconnect: I think you will give an uid or something of your phone and they can calculate a number that unlocks only your phone right? Nov 04 19:12:22 yes Nov 04 19:12:29 based on the imei Nov 04 19:12:35 It's almost always based on IMEI. Nov 04 19:12:39 On almost every phone. Nov 04 19:13:31 type dmesg within telnetd Nov 04 19:13:33 :) Nov 04 19:13:37 Disconnect: how can ppl at http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com now how to do that but not anyone else? Nov 04 19:13:43 RyeBrye: the biggest advantage of an app on the linux layer is the ability to leverage upstream work. don't write ssh client in java, use a term and leverage openssh. don't write 500 media codecs, just capture the screen and fire off mplayer. Nov 04 19:13:57 Disconnect: so instead your plan is to try to get real users to install linux mode software? Nov 04 19:13:59 good Nov 04 19:14:00 luck Nov 04 19:14:01 Phlogi: probably by purchasing it from htc Nov 04 19:14:26 DannyB: lots of 'real users' on osx install commandline software. they just don't know it. its bundled. Nov 04 19:14:39 Disconnect: yes they talk about a manufactors code Nov 04 19:15:35 i wonder if powertop would benefit this phone Nov 04 19:15:47 save battery Nov 04 19:17:15 most of the vlue of the andeoid source to fis and extend are removed by tmo and given back by having root Nov 04 19:17:24 ionstorm: latencytop is already in system/extras/, hard to believe that the low hanging fruit for power management wasn't already all collected though. Nov 04 19:17:30 er fix Nov 04 19:19:51 I got an idea, we can use our sd card as a ramdisk Nov 04 19:20:02 possibly speed up the phone Nov 04 19:20:28 type 6 = what peef? Nov 04 19:21:06 ionstorm: right, because surely the sd card is faster than the ram... Nov 04 19:21:38 thats like saying readyboost with a slow ass usb drive is going to speed up vista Nov 04 19:22:13 oops perf Nov 04 19:22:30 AND: could not write file /home/mike/Desktop/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1/tools/lib/images//system.img, File exists Nov 04 19:22:51 anyone seen that error in eclipse? Nov 04 19:23:55 mikeeeee: did you by any chance run eclipse as root prior to this, so that it now isn't able to delete this file? Nov 04 19:24:03 the system.img is there and writeable ... tried removing it but eclipse complains the file is not present if I remove it... Nov 04 19:25:01 does bluetooth work? Nov 04 19:25:22 marcone: to test I made system.img world writeable, eclipse still complains... Nov 04 19:25:38 no idea then Nov 04 19:34:42 grep: not found Nov 04 19:34:44 * Gary|tp cries. Nov 04 19:36:52 Gary|tp: ..so install busybox Nov 04 19:37:10 link? Nov 04 19:37:21 ok how long is "target Dex: framework" supposed to take? :/ Nov 04 19:37:23 I went to sleep early, it seems ;) Nov 04 19:37:50 Gary|tp: i saw the initial info a while ago and thought "there is no way this works on retail devices" .. shoul dhave tried it. doh. Nov 04 19:37:59 Gary|tp: but google "android busybox" for the busybox bin Nov 04 19:38:46 Disconnect: the framework is, relatively speaking, huge, so it takes a while to convert to a dex Nov 04 19:38:53 similarly the core library Nov 04 19:39:03 a while like multiple hours? Nov 04 19:39:21 no. it might be as much as 30 seconds on my machine Nov 04 19:39:37 though if you don't have much RAM you might find that it's totally swaptastic Nov 04 19:40:14 if that's the case, then it conceivably could take many minutes Nov 04 19:40:16 1 gig, of which java is taking 800M Nov 04 19:40:35 hrm, you could be in the right territory Nov 04 19:40:42 oooh. damn. swapped out. Nov 04 19:40:48 i have 10 gigs on my dev box Nov 04 19:41:04 48k of swap left doh Nov 04 19:41:26 yah its my fileserver/myth box. mostly its good for gobs of storage and dual-core cpu. Nov 04 19:41:46 i'd recommend getting at least 4gb Nov 04 19:42:24 been dragging my feet but yah. all i gotta do is try to remember what it takes w/o having to open it up and look :) Nov 04 19:42:47 for now.. swapspaced Nov 04 19:42:48 dx (the dex converter tool) reads in all the files to convert and keeps it all in memory, so it's not exactly frugal with the RAM Nov 04 19:42:59 (auto-adds/auto-removes swap files) Nov 04 19:43:25 yah so thats something i was expecting to see.. nobody is writing a new launcher? Nov 04 19:43:34 did they hit that one so perfectly (sans widgets) that nobody feels like changing it? Nov 04 19:43:43 Yeah, stuff is buildable in 2GB, but 4GB is better if you want to keep using the machine while building, especially if you have multi-core hardware and like to build with -j8 :) Nov 04 19:43:55 heh. "Starting dynamic swap manager: swapspaceInitial memory status: would prefer 659529200 extra bytes" Nov 04 19:44:26 it'll promptly swap thrash but at least progress will happen Nov 04 19:44:44 I think 2gig is the magic number. My laptop has 2gig and I can work on it OK. Nov 04 19:45:15 * Disconnect has 4 on the mbp but out of storage :( Nov 04 19:45:35 "quick, an extra terabyte" Nov 04 19:46:54 * mikez5 running Linux. MacOS might require more RAM. Nov 04 19:47:47 i recently bought a machine with 6GB hehe Nov 04 19:48:01 im sick of Eclipse sucking all my ram Nov 04 19:48:04 jasta: fun, I did the same :) Nov 04 19:48:09 hey guys Nov 04 19:48:12 quick question Nov 04 19:48:16 jasta: that won't stop, Eclipse will just suck all 6GB ;) Nov 04 19:48:18 also, lets face it. Firefox is basically one giant memory leak Nov 04 19:48:21 and so is compiz Nov 04 19:48:28 we use 4GB standard here for ppl using eclipse or v12n Nov 04 19:48:32 jasta: firefox 2, yeah Nov 04 19:48:33 jasta: fortunately compiz is optional Nov 04 19:48:38 * mikez5 also not using eclipse :-) Nov 04 19:48:45 i am installed my applicaion on the G1, and even after a factory reset, the downloaded apps start to have numbers appended to it Nov 04 19:48:50 morrildl: not for me. i can't work without it anymore. Nov 04 19:48:54 i find it truly an improvement in usability Nov 04 19:48:59 anyone have an idea? Nov 04 19:49:14 chouman82: example? Nov 04 19:49:17 compiz is breaky in ubuntu ibex for my videocard Nov 04 19:49:23 i use the zoom feature daily, and window negatives quite a lot as well. my gf hates the bright monitors when she is trying to sleep :) Nov 04 19:49:44 like i developer my app called clock Nov 04 19:49:53 and when i wake up in the mroning i sometimes just zoom the irc window instead of putting my glasses on :) Nov 04 19:49:56 so i put on the server and downloaded it over the air Nov 04 19:50:05 it makes each letter like 3/4" tall :) Nov 04 19:50:09 the first time it installed it's called clock.apk Nov 04 19:50:19 but then i reset the phone and downloaded it again Nov 04 19:50:28 it shows downing "clock-2.apk" Nov 04 19:51:01 downloads go to sd cad Nov 04 19:51:02 card Nov 04 19:51:18 jasta: which machine did you buy? Nov 04 19:51:19 chouman82: maybe the browser is renaming it? maybe try installing a file manager and clearing out the old versions Nov 04 19:51:32 unix_lappy: just some acer i found at Fry's. Nov 04 19:51:40 look in /sdcard Nov 04 19:51:42 so when i do facotry reset or uninstall the app Nov 04 19:51:45 The download manager is renaming them Nov 04 19:51:46 they dont get removed? Nov 04 19:52:03 unix_lappy: my main machine died and i didnt want to hassle with building a new one, so i just drove to fry's and bought one. moved the video card, and setup ubuntu hehe Nov 04 19:52:05 no they are on the storage card Nov 04 19:52:24 jasta: heh, 2 weeks before black friday ;-P Nov 04 19:52:31 it doesn't get wiped its like where you'd put your music Nov 04 19:52:39 unix_lappy: i actually did this 2 weeks ago Nov 04 19:52:46 Everyone go get their free stuff todayt? Nov 04 19:52:50 but honestly, i dont care about the cost :) Nov 04 19:53:04 jasta: it's your expendable income :-) Nov 04 19:53:13 The download manager generates unique filenames when there's already a file with a given name. The annoying part is that there isn't any app to manage the apks on the SD card (general android design say that there should be, but there wasn't enough time for it). Nov 04 19:53:50 you guys should go get your free coffee/donut/chicken sandwich/dinner discount... Nov 04 19:53:55 and appetizer. Nov 04 19:54:00 but i think you only get one of them. Nov 04 19:54:02 the file managers in the market ive tried have all been good Nov 04 19:54:46 jasta: the girlfriend, tech lust, wallet paradox yields the ultimate race condition ;-) Nov 04 19:55:33 im not a material person :) Nov 04 19:56:12 and i dont really have tech lust. Nov 04 19:56:44 i waste money on cell phones, but thats about it. i buy a new computer and/or laptop about once every 2 years, but i get each sub $1000 Nov 04 19:56:55 i own my car, pay cheap rent, etc ;) Nov 04 19:58:47 * jbq is happy to see that DNS is working on the open-source emulator "out of the box" Nov 04 19:58:51 speaking of black friday and frys, where are you at jasta? like what city/frys Nov 04 19:58:52 i have tech lust :) Nov 04 19:59:00 Gigawatts: Seattle Nov 04 19:59:05 ah, ok Nov 04 19:59:24 i used to work at the only frys in Illinois Nov 04 19:59:40 and during black friday, that was not pretty Nov 04 19:59:40 Frys is insane on black friday Nov 04 19:59:53 1-2 hour checkout lines. Nov 04 20:00:04 omg, i almost killed myself working black friday '06 Nov 04 20:00:15 1-2 hour? your lucky, we had like 3 hours Nov 04 20:00:25 well.. this was 30 minutes after the store opened. Nov 04 20:00:39 ah, yes, ok Nov 04 20:00:41 and this is oregon. Nov 04 20:00:46 lol Nov 04 20:00:48 whats upu kids Nov 04 20:00:54 yeah, this was chicago-ish Nov 04 20:00:59 good afternoon trigatch4 Nov 04 20:01:08 it was pretty terrible though Nov 04 20:01:15 Dougie187: you live in Oregon? Nov 04 20:01:17 camping out is by far the best solution... Nov 04 20:01:20 jasta: not anymore. Nov 04 20:01:32 yup, i havent felt the same way about the holidays since that day Nov 04 20:01:32 jasta: thats where my family lives, and i moved from there about 1.5 years ago Nov 04 20:01:38 where do you live now? Nov 04 20:01:42 jasta: florida. Nov 04 20:01:46 oh, right Nov 04 20:01:53 only for grad school thought Nov 04 20:01:55 though* Nov 04 20:01:56 have you ever lived in a fun state tho? :) Nov 04 20:01:56 dudes Nov 04 20:01:58 i would never live here forever. Nov 04 20:02:01 lol Nov 04 20:02:06 my g1 is asking if i want to upgrade Nov 04 20:02:09 i got the OTA Nov 04 20:02:11 Where in Oregon? Nov 04 20:02:14 i have lived in Illinois, Indiana, and New Jersey Nov 04 20:02:14 now what do i do Nov 04 20:02:19 wastrel: whatever you want Nov 04 20:02:21 Dougie187: Did you also take the Oregon Trail when leaving? And did Diane die from Influenza and did the oxen make it across the river? Nov 04 20:02:26 ahaberlacho: nothing... except the home of the famous oregon trail. Nov 04 20:02:33 Dougie187: i've been to Illinois, Indiana and New Jersey Nov 04 20:02:37 * ahaberlacho went to school at Oregon State. Nov 04 20:02:43 jasta: but then i won't be able to get root Nov 04 20:02:45 trigatch4: yes, and my wife got bit by a snake and my son broke his leg... Nov 04 20:02:50 awesome Nov 04 20:02:53 i mean that sucks Nov 04 20:03:00 it was not a pretty picture.. Nov 04 20:03:01 wastrel: i don't think the exploit was a root exploit, actually. Nov 04 20:03:01 as long as you have enough bullets to go buffalo hunting Nov 04 20:03:03 all is well Nov 04 20:03:04 but i ended up with 1500 points. Nov 04 20:03:06 Type: B A N G Nov 04 20:03:19 well they said it was rooty Nov 04 20:03:25 BANG Nov 04 20:03:28 fadden: Old-school! We played that varient in 3rd grade! Nov 04 20:03:29 i wasn't goign to do it anyway Nov 04 20:03:37 That was the original. Nov 04 20:03:46 By dialing in from a terminal to the school district's mainframe. Nov 04 20:03:47 wastrel: I got the OTA update and the telnetd thing worked for me Nov 04 20:03:53 wastrel: rc29 works for root Nov 04 20:04:00 yay Nov 04 20:04:09 People don't believe me when I talk about the days when you used to get a bunch of kids around the keyboard to type "B A N G" as fast as possible. Nov 04 20:04:10 i can have my root and my update <3 google Nov 04 20:04:17 who wants to go out for a root beer after work? Nov 04 20:04:26 that sounds fun. Nov 04 20:04:28 wastrel: it'll get closed pretty soon i'm sure Nov 04 20:04:29 mikez5: I would if I was there ;-) Nov 04 20:04:33 I think there are 3d shooter versions of Oregon Trail now. It loses the character of the original. Nov 04 20:04:33 ahaberlacho: here's the fun part: in the Apple II version, the only thing that mattered was how fast you hit the first key. Nov 04 20:04:36 the update icon is cute Nov 04 20:04:41 ttuttle|voted: did you get your free stuff? Nov 04 20:04:44 After that it dropped into an INPUT statement. Nov 04 20:04:48 Dougie187: Free stuff? Nov 04 20:04:57 ttuttle|voted: did you get an i voted sticker? Nov 04 20:05:04 i did Nov 04 20:05:05 Dougie187: Yeah, and a coffee. Nov 04 20:05:05 MECC #76, I believe. Nov 04 20:05:12 but since im inside all day it doesnt matter Nov 04 20:05:14 nobody sees it Nov 04 20:05:15 Dougie187: Reminds me how bad Starbucks coffee is. It's always burnt. :-\ Nov 04 20:05:32 ttuttle|voted: then you can go to starbucks and get coffee, and krispy kreme and get a donut, and chick-fil-a and get a chicken sandwich, and there are two other places to get free stuff too... one sec Nov 04 20:05:34 tuttle| Nov 04 20:05:42 shoulda asked for it medium rare ;) Nov 04 20:05:49 ill find the other free stuff one sec Nov 04 20:06:01 the other update icon is also cute Nov 04 20:06:28 Update icon? Where? Nov 04 20:07:35 ttuttle|voted: do you have a Pat & Oscar's or a Daily Grill close to you? Nov 04 20:07:39 ttuttle|voted: when the upgrade is going there's a picture on the screen, of the thing going into the box Nov 04 20:07:50 then it reboots again and the thing is going into the IC chip Nov 04 20:07:59 Oh. And Ben and Jerry's give free ice cream today too Nov 04 20:08:10 Dougie187: nope Nov 04 20:08:22 the Coffee and Ben and Jerry's is good for everyone though, not just voters Nov 04 20:08:22 wastrel: Oh yeah, they're fun to watch. Nov 04 20:08:28 And a couple local candidates gave me $5 each to vote for them... Nov 04 20:08:45 well... no Nov 04 20:08:47 ice cream free from 5pm to 8pm according to msnbc Nov 04 20:08:53 Yeah Nov 04 20:08:54 Yeah but it'll be fucking mobbed. Nov 04 20:09:06 * RyeBrye grew up where Ben & Jerry's main factory is Nov 04 20:09:15 I would be surprised if they have any ice cream left. Nov 04 20:09:22 apparently starbucks is giving out free coffee Nov 04 20:09:29 fcrick: we just covered that. Nov 04 20:09:33 My sisters worked there in the gift shop over teh summers... Every employee gets to bring home 3 pints of Ben & Jerry's factory seconds each day Nov 04 20:09:48 I'd be fat Nov 04 20:09:53 me too Nov 04 20:09:58 they call it "the ben 10" Nov 04 20:10:07 I miss Ben & Jerry's. We only have one in all of Portland. Nov 04 20:10:07 Dougie187: yeah my g1 screen doesn't show a long chat history :) Nov 04 20:10:47 andyross: go to winco or safeway.. they should have some there. Nov 04 20:10:57 you don't get the actual store... but you get the ice cream. Nov 04 20:11:12 Not the same. Nov 04 20:11:16 close? Nov 04 20:11:32 the update turned on my gps Nov 04 20:11:42 hmm... http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/04/first-t-mobile-g1-tethering-solution-comes-to-light/ Nov 04 20:11:49 Close enough. The real problem is that there's a serious lack of good ice cream stores in the area. Out in the west suburbs where I live, all we have are Cold Stone, which is *awful*. Nov 04 20:12:15 I grew up in Cambridge, c.f. Emack & Bolios, Steve's, Herrel's... Hard to adjust. Nov 04 20:12:33 andyross: yeah im not a fan of cold stone.. Nov 04 20:13:04 stone cold creamery Nov 04 20:13:05 So the goldfish is the emulator build, right? Nov 04 20:13:14 woo there's a goldfish app? Nov 04 20:13:18 If you make an htc dream image, it wont load in the emulator? Nov 04 20:13:21 Hmm. Nov 04 20:13:42 wastrel: Goldfish is the name of the 'device' that you run in the emulator from what I understand Nov 04 20:13:52 but an OpenGL-based golfish would be cool Nov 04 20:14:04 and a hell of a lot more useful than "Marvin" Nov 04 20:14:06 like glx-gears? Nov 04 20:14:09 but glx-goldfish Nov 04 20:14:19 RyeBrye: dream firmware should run in the emulator, as long as you use the goldfish kernel Nov 04 20:14:25 ok Nov 04 20:14:40 we do that all the time here in androidland Nov 04 20:14:53 how much are tickets ot androidland these days? Nov 04 20:15:17 Free, but you have to wrestle the 20' bugdroid. Nov 04 20:15:24 Few survive. Nov 04 20:15:28 RyeBrye, so how did you fair? Nov 04 20:15:32 hmm, should we open an android theme park? Nov 04 20:15:38 we could gang up on him.... Nov 04 20:15:43 I thought I worked in an android theme park. Nov 04 20:16:05 Damm - I'm not as skilled at cross-compiling as i would have liked Nov 04 20:16:13 we get to go on the rides all we want after closing time. Nov 04 20:16:14 but I got a lot of tools on there from the normal android build Nov 04 20:16:30 mikez5 - that'd be sweet Nov 04 20:17:27 How can one get at the irc logs? Nov 04 20:17:45 not that i want to... im just curious Nov 04 20:17:55 http://ibot.rikers.org/%23android/20081103.html.gz Nov 04 20:18:24 are there statistics for the vote that took place somewhere? Nov 04 20:18:42 morrildl posted them earlier Nov 04 20:18:46 RyeBrye, nice. Nov 04 20:19:04 jasta: so you run windows in VMWare or VirtualBox inside linux with that 6GB? Nov 04 20:19:10 lol jasta you were right. Nov 04 20:20:14 there any apps out that will record my phonecalls? Nov 04 20:20:40 fcrick - the NSA has one Nov 04 20:20:42 fcrick: you understand there are some legal issues with that? Nov 04 20:20:43 but it runs on their servers Nov 04 20:21:03 Legal issues - yeah... maybe... but my SE phones have all had voice memo that worked when I was on the phone Nov 04 20:21:23 Which is really convenient when someone is giving oyu a phone number or instructions over the phone and you don't have time to write it down Nov 04 20:21:36 s/SE/Sony Ericcson/ Nov 04 20:21:44 Does the API even expose the audio stream from the GSM stack? I thought that was all across the bus on the baseband CPU? Nov 04 20:22:30 fadden: don't those "legal issues" change from state to state. Nov 04 20:24:13 http://www.rcfp.org/taping/ came up first in Google Nov 04 20:24:48 BFD Nov 04 20:25:01 UIQ3 devices can all do voice recording of phone calls Nov 04 20:25:06 Looks like 38 states allow you to record conversations without informing the other party. Nov 04 20:25:36 fadden: UIQ3? Nov 04 20:25:37 i found this too Nov 04 20:25:37 http://jackwhispers.blogspot.com/2004/01/recording-phone-call-laws-by-state.html Nov 04 20:25:45 i don't care what the state thinks Nov 04 20:25:50 UIQ3 = Symbian (basically) Nov 04 20:26:00 if i go to prison for recording my own calls then i'm happy to make a statement Nov 04 20:26:02 ... Nov 04 20:26:21 I don't really think that the most common use case will be to Linda Tripp your friends into embarassing things Nov 04 20:26:36 fcrick: well most states don't care, as long as one of the two parties involved know that the recording is happening.. Nov 04 20:26:39 I'm thinking it will be used for mostly voice memos, or recording stuff like phone numbers - which is what I've used one for before Nov 04 20:27:29 not for blackmail or other devious intentions? Nov 04 20:27:34 The point is... it's not a technological limitation Nov 04 20:27:39 i'm tired of signing up for services and having them lie through their teeth to me then not having evidence later Nov 04 20:27:57 Well - in that case fcrick- you would have to probably abide by the law :) Nov 04 20:28:05 not really Nov 04 20:28:25 its not like i have the money to sue them, but i can post the recordings online in a blog or something and make fools of them Nov 04 20:28:36 of course, it MAY be a technological limitation of the particular hardware in the G1 - I don't know that - but not all GSM chipsets prevent the software on the phone from recording audio Nov 04 20:28:39 fcrick: you can go to an Indian reservation to record it, federal law is only one party consent. Nov 04 20:28:55 well, again i don't care... Nov 04 20:29:16 so...no android specific apps? Nov 04 20:29:17 But even more important than that is - I want the voice stream accessible to me so that I can play with it :) Nov 04 20:29:26 i.e. music on hold, or a voice scrambler Nov 04 20:29:41 RyeBrye: or write a fax receiver? Nov 04 20:29:42 heh Nov 04 20:29:52 Hmm... Nov 04 20:30:00 Certainly nothing under android.telephony exposes the audio stream. Would have to check the C++ underneath the phone application... Nov 04 20:30:16 right - and then we'd have to create patches to the API and submit them Nov 04 20:38:56 how do I delete stuff off of the sd card on the device? Nov 04 20:39:16 T-mobile only lets you do 3-way calling right? even though GSM supports up to 5 connections per call? Nov 04 20:39:47 damn.. segfault Nov 04 20:40:46 5-way calling? dang yo you could really have a 1-900 lovefest on the G1 Nov 04 20:40:55 hahahah going to subway, seeya later guys Nov 04 20:41:09 I've had other phones that have supported 5 way - but never actually used it since I've never had a carrier support it Nov 04 20:42:19 RyeBrye likes it 5-way Nov 04 20:42:26 you know it Nov 04 20:45:06 getting 'web page not available' when launching browser......do i need to enable any setting? Nov 04 20:45:13 reboot it Nov 04 20:45:24 It happens to me a few times a day Nov 04 20:45:33 sometimes i will have to reboot twice to get it to work Nov 04 20:46:09 instead of reboot, try toggling airplane mode Nov 04 20:47:21 WHat happened to IntentReceiver? Nov 04 20:47:22 toggle works for me Nov 04 20:47:26 Has it been deprecated? Nov 04 20:47:35 i should mention her, i am not using GL here, trying to get it work on emulator Nov 04 20:47:38 the thing for RMI of intents? Nov 04 20:47:39 import android.content.IntentReceiver Nov 04 20:47:42 but you know, don't say that sort of thing too loud, people will try to blame the software bugs on hardware :) Nov 04 20:47:43 yes Nov 04 20:47:58 It got the axe because it was a security issue Nov 04 20:48:07 IntentReceiver is now BroadcastReceiver Nov 04 20:48:08 I saw an article on it somewhere Nov 04 20:48:11 Shit Nov 04 20:48:23 or maybe mikez5 knows better because he actually works on teh stuff :) Nov 04 20:48:35 So RyeBrye, can I extend a BroadcastReceiver Instead? is it an abstract type Nov 04 20:49:06 No idea Nov 04 20:49:24 thx anyway Nov 04 20:49:26 You subclass BroadcastReceiver and implement the onReceive() method to receive the Intents Nov 04 20:49:31 k Nov 04 20:49:41 you know where I can find a list of functions that have been deprecated? Nov 04 20:50:06 Search for the "deprecated" annotation? Nov 04 20:50:12 googling doesn't help, all google shows is a bunch of old tutorials that uses these functions that wouldn't help me to know whether these have been deprecated Nov 04 20:50:25 not offhand, but there must be release notes with the SDK somewhere Nov 04 20:50:27 nice, it's running on freerunner now Nov 04 20:50:31 why do you want to find deprecated funtions? Nov 04 20:50:34 check the changelog? Nov 04 20:50:44 I am using a book Nov 04 20:50:52 which was SDK 0.8 Nov 04 20:51:49 When trying to install multiple applications I made with the same user id, I get "Replace application: The application you are installing will replace another application. All previous user data will be saved." what is going on? Nov 04 20:52:08 same packagename? Nov 04 20:52:14 nope Nov 04 20:52:31 but when I select ok, nothing happens, I can't run the app Nov 04 20:53:00 Just tested Remote-Desktop-Client for Android... amazing :) Nov 04 20:54:09 what did the firmware update do to the phones? Nov 04 20:54:53 where is the remotedesktop app Nov 04 20:54:55 I can install just fine when I do it over usb, but when I try and install them over the web, it's messed up Nov 04 20:56:02 herriojr, where is the rdp app Nov 04 20:56:22 I don't know, I'm not using it Nov 04 20:56:37 plusminus_, where is it @ Nov 04 20:57:10 are you talking about the vnc viewer app? Nov 04 20:57:22 try searching for android vnc viewer Nov 04 21:01:36 ionstorm: don't know if I can say that Nov 04 21:02:16 well i can surely help test, submit bugs ideas Nov 04 21:02:23 i use rdp in linux daily Nov 04 21:03:42 but i can say that you can watch small videos over Wifi(a.b.g router) at around 5 fps (with half connection strength) Nov 04 21:03:56 Hmm. I want to put shared libs onto my device and use them. Unfortunately, putting them on the sdcard doesn't seem to work, and I don't have permissions to data. Nov 04 21:03:56 so, when I all my applications which share a userid via usb, they install fine, but when I install them over the web, installation fails. Nov 04 21:03:58 ionstorm: its nto my app, I already asked the author if I can write sth about it Nov 04 21:04:37 Is there any place I can put a shared lib that it can be loaded from? Nov 04 21:04:44 would I have to bundle it with my apk somehow? Nov 04 21:05:58 ok, via logger, when I try installing over the web, I get "failed to open Zip archive '/sdcard/download/myapplication.apk'" Nov 04 21:07:02 vol: app-specific data area on /data Nov 04 21:07:20 You get the path from a ContextThingy (I don't remember the details). Nov 04 21:07:44 fadden: Hmm. Any way to actually view that folder? I don't have read permissions to Data Nov 04 21:07:47 Also, that way your lib gets cleaned up when the app is uninstalled. Nov 04 21:08:08 that's how we've been doing it, but I tinkered with the sdcard since I didn't have read/push permission on my device? Nov 04 21:08:31 so, when trying to downlod the apk via the browser, it seems to get corrupted Nov 04 21:08:36 The app should be able to read its own SDK and write to the app-private area. Nov 04 21:08:44 vol: /data/data/ i think Nov 04 21:08:53 s/SDK/APK/ Nov 04 21:08:54 fadden meant: The app should be able to read its own APK and write to the app-private area. Nov 04 21:08:56 nice the last 17 updates to see if there was a new OTA update filed Nov 04 21:09:15 can't opendir on /data/data/ Nov 04 21:09:18 spikebike - ? Nov 04 21:09:18 trying to ls Nov 04 21:09:22 herriojr: if you pull the APK off and run it through "unzip -t" does it complain? Nov 04 21:09:26 I can cd in :P Nov 04 21:09:33 rye I disabled ota updates Nov 04 21:09:39 Oh, gotcha Nov 04 21:09:48 how again? moving the keys around or what? Nov 04 21:09:49 vol: the path could move in a future release, so you should not be hard-coding a path in. Nov 04 21:09:54 ya Nov 04 21:09:59 let me see Nov 04 21:10:01 fadden: hmm, alright. Nov 04 21:10:04 mkdir /system/etc/security/backup Nov 04 21:10:14 mv /system/etc/security/* /system/etc/security/backup Nov 04 21:10:28 Hmm... that might be smarter than what I did. I just moved the whole dir Nov 04 21:10:39 Ah, I guess I have to guess when I'm on the device Nov 04 21:10:48 vol: ? Nov 04 21:10:48 I can cd to /data/data/packagename and view contents there Nov 04 21:10:57 device_info now gives me an openssl error when it tries to check Nov 04 21:10:57 I just can't view anything in /data or /data/data Nov 04 21:11:06 nice :) Nov 04 21:11:10 so, no typos, and no browsing via ddms? Nov 04 21:11:18 yup, it's corrupt Nov 04 21:11:31 herriojr: look at it with "xxd file | less" Nov 04 21:11:33 somehow it gets corrupted when transferring it via the browser downloader Nov 04 21:11:34 spikebike: wouldn't just moving otacerts.zip do the trick? Nov 04 21:11:45 See if there's an ASCII header or some junk on it. Nov 04 21:11:50 seems cacerts would still be useful for normal SSL stuff. Nov 04 21:12:09 mine still says "CHECKIN_SUCCESS" ? Nov 04 21:12:12 looks like a bunch of junk Nov 04 21:12:29 yah isn't cacerts the main ca pool? Nov 04 21:12:31 herriojr: does it start 504b 0304 ...? Nov 04 21:12:42 oh... NM Nov 04 21:12:46 nope, 1f8b 0800 Nov 04 21:12:54 after "Checkin_sucess" it then spits out a java.io.IOEXception Nov 04 21:13:00 jimp most certs seem elsewhere, those are just the ota certs Nov 04 21:13:07 spikebike: aah, ok. Nov 04 21:13:08 herriojr: rename it to "foo.zip.gz" and "gunzip" it Nov 04 21:13:25 at least I haven't noticed anything yet Nov 04 21:13:41 that did it Nov 04 21:13:45 it extracted Nov 04 21:13:55 hmmmmmm i thought i saw something before. cool. http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1016#c5 look its yet another Stupid Android Thinko thats easily solved by technical users with root access.. Nov 04 21:14:21 it seems to be missing the classes Nov 04 21:14:26 spikebike: cacerts is toplevel certs for ssl Nov 04 21:14:57 ah Nov 04 21:14:57 that's what it looks like to me Nov 04 21:15:04 so I should put back that one file Nov 04 21:15:23 mv otacerts.zip otacerts.goaway Nov 04 21:15:53 I wonder how it got gzipped Nov 04 21:16:12 herriojr: web server might be expecting the client to do the gunzip transparently Nov 04 21:16:23 Yeah, I oved the cacerts back Nov 04 21:16:43 but the interesting thing is I transferred 3 of them, and the first one didn't come in the gzip format Nov 04 21:16:43 * Disconnect is planning to add cacert to his at some point. but first, voting time. Nov 04 21:17:18 in case anyone is wondering, if you look at the recovery verifier.c it pulls its public key list from a compiled-in "keys.inc" header file... so replacing otacerts.zip with your own special certs wont help in setting up a spoofed update server Nov 04 21:17:27 fadden: $ adb push libalkgraphicstest.so /data/data/com.android.helloactivity Nov 04 21:17:28 failed to copy 'libalkgraphicstest.so' to '/data/data/com.android.helloactivity/libalkgraphicstest.so': Permission denied Nov 04 21:17:54 I hope that I'm not grossly misunderstanding what I should be doing Nov 04 21:18:05 vol: adb push can do that in the emulator, but not on the device Nov 04 21:18:06 vol: you're likely to have better success stuffing it into your APK, installing the APK, and extracting it as a resource on startup Nov 04 21:18:17 adbd runs non-root on devices Nov 04 21:18:21 fadden: sigh, yeah. Nov 04 21:18:27 How is the logo.rle created? I can't seem to find any info on its file format Nov 04 21:18:29 I was afraid it would be something like that. Nov 04 21:18:40 ryebrye I found some info Nov 04 21:18:48 but it's overwritten at boot Nov 04 21:18:52 so, do I pretty much stuff this into the assets dir for the project? Nov 04 21:18:53 what are you trying to do? Nov 04 21:18:59 Just change the boot logo :) Nov 04 21:19:01 All of the usual java.lang.whatever resource stuff works, as well as the AssetManager classes. Nov 04 21:19:18 well that would require changing the initrd which rebuilds / on boot Nov 04 21:19:21 why would it send 2 files as gzipped and 1 file not gzipped? Nov 04 21:19:24 not sure if that is checksummed Nov 04 21:19:32 initrd? Nov 04 21:19:43 I've not tracked it down Nov 04 21:19:46 ioerror replaced it Nov 04 21:19:57 weird Nov 04 21:19:59 it reverted on next boot Nov 04 21:20:01 I did what? Nov 04 21:20:03 vol: not sure; if you experiment with it on the emulator you can see all of the files and directory layout Nov 04 21:20:05 email doesn't connect to a non trusted ssl cert? Nov 04 21:20:07 ah, yes the image Nov 04 21:20:08 replaced logo.rle Nov 04 21:20:10 * Damm uses a self signed cert with no issues Nov 04 21:20:18 spikebike, what happens when you replace the cert package with your own cert? Nov 04 21:20:25 and mitm your own phone? Nov 04 21:20:35 fadden: Yeah. What we're doing on the emulator is putting the shared lib in /data/packagename/sharedlib.so Nov 04 21:20:35 ioerror I've not tried that yet Nov 04 21:20:44 and then calling it using absolute paths (ok, we can change that) Nov 04 21:20:48 and it loads correctly Nov 04 21:20:48 presumably I could replaced any piece of the phone Nov 04 21:20:54 well maybe not the bootloader Nov 04 21:21:02 the problem is the emulator is pretty slow, so I wanted to see how fast it actually ran on the device Nov 04 21:21:08 vol: you still use an absolute path; it's just determined at runtime. Nov 04 21:21:16 ioerror any idea on the magic inside telnetd? Nov 04 21:22:07 magic behind telnetd? Nov 04 21:22:09 there's no magic Nov 04 21:22:38 there isn't? Nov 04 21:22:39 there's lots of magic Nov 04 21:22:45 spikebike, none Nov 04 21:22:52 how does it get run as a user and somehow run as root Nov 04 21:22:54 I hacked on other stuff since then Nov 04 21:23:15 I'm wondering if the binary is signed and there's a signed binary to permission map somewhere Nov 04 21:23:19 I've yet to elfdump Nov 04 21:23:21 My thought is that if you launch a native C program from inside an android app, something is happening that's not related to the file system Nov 04 21:23:30 where is the uid to name map? Nov 04 21:23:59 Traditionally it's /etc/passwd Nov 04 21:24:03 yeah, of course Nov 04 21:24:07 but there's no /etc/passwd or /etc/group Nov 04 21:24:32 nor /etc/nsswitch.conf Nov 04 21:24:55 traditionally you can'd do what telnet does without suid ;-) Nov 04 21:25:01 heh Nov 04 21:25:08 but without passwd, group, etc Nov 04 21:25:11 there is no userlist Nov 04 21:25:14 so it would default to root Nov 04 21:25:29 google has the user switching elsewhere Nov 04 21:25:35 Umm, no, there are still uids. And toolbox ls shows a name associated with each uid. Nov 04 21:25:38 so kernel layer is bad Nov 04 21:25:48 right, but there really isn't any uids, it's all artificial Nov 04 21:25:52 there's a layer faking it Nov 04 21:25:56 (prolly, that's a guess) Nov 04 21:25:58 You're just making things up now Nov 04 21:26:51 jimp, just call it magic then. Nov 04 21:26:57 What? Artifical? Nov 04 21:27:07 It's linux, there are user ids Nov 04 21:27:16 ioerror, we moved on... it's magic now Nov 04 21:27:25 er damm that's not the way it works Nov 04 21:27:35 just because you delete etc/* Nov 04 21:27:42 i sense some cargocult Nov 04 21:27:53 does not mean when a user launches telnet that it somehow managed to spawn root processes Nov 04 21:28:11 spikebike, in a normal system yes... but android isn't a normal system Nov 04 21:28:12 maybe if it was already running as root it might let in an unauthed conenction, but that's completely different Nov 04 21:28:26 true Nov 04 21:28:38 but user <-> UID mapping isn't really related Nov 04 21:28:40 Typically telnetd could spawn a suid /bin/login or something.. but there are no suid binaries as far as I see. Nov 04 21:28:50 spikebike: yeah, that was just an aside. Nov 04 21:29:08 jimp, there are two set gid binaries Nov 04 21:29:11 the networking config and ping Nov 04 21:29:14 jimp, it's logical to think whatever does the setuid and setegid... did not happen when you ran telnetd? Nov 04 21:29:41 Does anyone have strace on their android? Nov 04 21:29:43 * Damm shoots and fails Nov 04 21:29:53 if so, it should be possible to watch telnetd with strace and see what's going on Nov 04 21:30:09 strace -fF -v -o /tmp/stracelog /system/bin/telnetd Nov 04 21:30:14 and then kill telnetd after a login Nov 04 21:30:19 is there a vpn client app floating around yet? Nov 04 21:30:28 iptables is enabled Nov 04 21:30:38 userspace is missing at the moment afaik Nov 04 21:30:57 thoraxe, you know it might actually be worth cross compiling vpnc over Nov 04 21:31:01 configuration could be a pain Nov 04 21:31:21 Damm: vpnc would at least be faster to market than someone trying to code something from scratch, no? Nov 04 21:31:39 and the type of people that need ipsec vpn probably can handle configuration Nov 04 21:31:48 or just support vpnc config files Nov 04 21:32:06 openvpn would be quite quick also Nov 04 21:32:08 thoraxe, right, it's existing... cross compile it, root your g1, install it, make it read the config off of /sdcard Nov 04 21:32:19 is there a way on a g1 to see what my ip address is, with or without root Nov 04 21:32:23 Alternatively, cross compile openssh Nov 04 21:32:30 spikebike, ifconfig exists Nov 04 21:32:31 afaik Nov 04 21:32:36 I tried ifconfig Nov 04 21:32:38 and ifconfig -a Nov 04 21:32:38 spikebike, ifconfig doesn't return anything though Nov 04 21:32:45 -a isn't a valid interface ;-) Nov 04 21:32:47 ifconfig tiwlan? Nov 04 21:32:53 Damm: i would not be able to perform most of the tasks you specified Nov 04 21:32:54 hehe Nov 04 21:33:03 they need to get flash so that we can use pandora :) Nov 04 21:33:06 thoraxe, i'm not up to cross compiling. Nov 04 21:33:13 otherwise I could Nov 04 21:33:58 tiwlan0 ;-) Nov 04 21:33:59 thanks Nov 04 21:34:13 Maybe we can fix wifi for them Nov 04 21:34:53 RyeBrye, what's wrong with it other then no WPA2 Nov 04 21:34:54 ? Nov 04 21:35:05 I am sitting about 10 or 15 feet from my router Nov 04 21:35:13 and it loses connection a lot Nov 04 21:35:23 RyeBrye, what wifi router? Nov 04 21:35:30 WRT54GL Nov 04 21:35:37 * Damm yawn Nov 04 21:35:39 your fired Nov 04 21:35:48 I got it for free Nov 04 21:35:56 I just retired one of those in the office because it blew goats... kept resettng my connection every 5-7minutes Nov 04 21:36:00 rye well it shuts off wifi when the screen blanks Nov 04 21:36:03 peice of crap Nov 04 21:36:04 unless you have usb attached Nov 04 21:36:16 I do have usb attached... but shouldn't it reconnect to wifi after it comes back on? Nov 04 21:36:17 (by default) Nov 04 21:36:17 spikebike, and enable the screen on Nov 04 21:36:34 right, but then telnetd segfaults Nov 04 21:36:38 so who cares Nov 04 21:36:38 I believe someone already compiled openssh - http://www.billrocks.org/android_libs/ Nov 04 21:36:42 Tell the device not to go to sleep when in usb debugging mode Nov 04 21:36:54 and telnetd will segfault when the phone sleeps Nov 04 21:36:56 this makes sense Nov 04 21:37:12 ioerror, i do like it how they call it tombstone Nov 04 21:37:20 tombstone? Nov 04 21:37:29 Sorry, I'm not familar? Nov 04 21:37:34 ioerror, cd /data/tombstone Nov 04 21:37:40 it's the crash handler. Nov 04 21:37:51 ah, bash, nice Nov 04 21:38:12 ah Nov 04 21:38:32 I tried ssh from the command line and it worked great on the g1. Nov 04 21:38:38 awesome awesome, he ported ssl Nov 04 21:38:55 i'm confused how sshd would work though without login credentials Nov 04 21:39:30 could just use a cert Nov 04 21:39:39 phases... Nov 04 21:39:41 well, bl0rpl3 you'll alway shave some kind of login credentials Nov 04 21:39:43 could just give you root Nov 04 21:39:50 :P Nov 04 21:39:56 bl0rpl3, if you disable pam, which you should, you can use key based auth Nov 04 21:40:11 though I'm unclear on how getpwent() or whatever the call is called, will return without /etc/passwd Nov 04 21:40:48 well that's controlled by libc Nov 04 21:40:56 but where on the filesystem would I copy my key? Nov 04 21:40:59 which presumably redirects it to a directory service Nov 04 21:41:04 most likely in the sql database Nov 04 21:41:44 I totaly want to cross-compile elinks Nov 04 21:41:49 I want a REAL browser on this device Nov 04 21:42:00 yes getpwent was always something libc controled and might not have used /etc/passwd as a flat text file, nis+ for example Nov 04 21:42:13 ldap, kerberos, etc. Nov 04 21:42:55 Looks like getpwent is compiled into libc. Nov 04 21:43:06 RyeBrye, what are you waiting for? I would love to use elinks Nov 04 21:44:24 fadden: I feel like a tremendous idiot having to ask, but I'm just not exactly sure what I should be doing with AssetManager and System. System.load/loadLibrary take Strings for pathnames, while AssetManager takes resources and provides InputStreams. Are you suggesting that I stream the library out of the APK, save it somewhere, and then pass that location to System.load? Nov 04 21:47:22 http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/getpwent.html Nov 04 21:47:45 vol: yup Nov 04 21:48:29 fadden: Oh. Hmm. Nov 04 21:48:36 feels a little hacky, but ok :) Nov 04 21:48:42 Just a bit. Nov 04 21:48:56 Such is life in "not officially supported" land. :-) Nov 04 21:50:05 yawn Nov 04 21:50:26 fyi (from a while back, reading scrollback :) ..) i'm gonna get openvpn running before too much longer. no promises about a pretty package tho. (and no frontend gui, can't be arsed) of course, it'll require rooting either way since it needs to be suid or run as root. Nov 04 21:51:38 it should be mentioned that android is a stripped down version of libc from netbs Nov 04 21:51:42 netbsd* Nov 04 21:51:51 RyeBrye: and the wifi thing.. so far i get lots of fanboi yelling about how dare i demean such a wonderful platform and it must be my router (and my office routers, plus all the free wifi in silver spring and the bar in bowie, and....) Nov 04 21:51:52 so if there's something missing or not what your used to, that's why. Nov 04 21:52:23 ok there's my ride, whee. bbl. Nov 04 21:53:08 Disconnect: i dont know why you think its some big conspiracy. Nov 04 21:53:13 the wifi chip in the G1 is clearly weak Nov 04 21:53:42 maybe the air between your G1 and access point is too thick Nov 04 21:53:51 try a higher altitude Nov 04 21:53:53 i just shut it off because the range isnt good enough to be useful imo Nov 04 21:54:15 my wifi seems to work just fine Nov 04 21:54:26 not as good as my n800 Nov 04 21:54:28 Has anyone ported android to the National SR-LA18NW yet? Nov 04 21:54:29 but better than most laptops Nov 04 21:57:59 * jasta ponders a good download retry strategy for five Nov 04 21:58:12 now that ive been doing a lot more real world tests i realize i need to tweak this logic a bit :) Nov 04 22:01:16 morrildl: i got your message in my log... Nov 04 22:01:26 ivantis: I think it was you who wanted to start the web log, right? Nov 04 22:01:33 ivantis: looks like the predominant view is that it's okay Nov 04 22:02:00 okay Nov 04 22:06:40 hi, do anyone has an idea about binutils in Android toolchain?Thanks Nov 04 22:07:02 joel_: they're a bad idea. that's my idea. Nov 04 22:07:16 :D Nov 04 22:08:28 Got some strange error when compiling the toolchain... totally no clue Nov 04 22:09:04 good thing you won't tell us what it is Nov 04 22:09:23 Had texinfo warning before, then got other issue after upgrade texinfo from 4.11 to 4.12 Nov 04 22:10:01 /home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17/binutils/bucomm.c:426: warning: the use of `mktemp' is dangerous, better use `mkstemp' or `mkdtemp' Nov 04 22:10:01 make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17/binutils' Nov 04 22:10:01 make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 Nov 04 22:10:01 make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17/binutils' Nov 04 22:10:01 make[2]: *** [all] Error 2 Nov 04 22:10:02 make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17/binutils' Nov 04 22:10:05 make[1]: *** [all-binutils] Error 2 Nov 04 22:10:07 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17' Nov 04 22:10:09 make: *** [all] Error 2 Nov 04 22:10:36 It does not tell me where is the problem, I am lost now. Nov 04 22:10:50 joel_: try to use fpaste.org or pastie.org in the future Nov 04 22:11:17 ok, I will try Nov 04 22:13:21 1 Nov 04 22:13:21 2 Nov 04 22:13:21 3 Nov 04 22:13:21 4 Nov 04 22:13:21 5 Nov 04 22:13:22 6 Nov 04 22:13:24 7 Nov 04 22:13:26 8 Nov 04 22:13:28 9 Nov 04 22:13:30 Nov 04 22:13:32 /home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17/binutils/bucomm.c:426: warning: the use of `mktemp' is dangerous, better use `mkstemp' or `mkdtemp' Nov 04 22:13:35 make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17/binutils' Nov 04 22:13:37 make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 Nov 04 22:13:38 .... Nov 04 22:13:39 make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17/binutils' Nov 04 22:13:41 make[2]: *** [all] Error 2 Nov 04 22:13:42 Ignored. Nov 04 22:13:45 make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17/binutils' Nov 04 22:13:46 make[1]: *** [all-binutils] Error 2 Nov 04 22:13:49 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/joel/android/development/pdk/ndk/toolchain/binutils-2.17' Nov 04 22:13:51 make: *** [all] Error 2 Nov 04 22:13:53 It is from fpaste.org :( Nov 04 22:13:57 no Nov 04 22:13:58 you paste the url Nov 04 22:14:03 not what you put into fpaste Nov 04 22:14:06 and then we go to the url Nov 04 22:14:18 and say "aha, there is the reams of data, which did not need to be pasted into the channel" Nov 04 22:14:35 Sorry, mis-understand... Nov 04 22:15:41 Thank you for remind,vol. Nov 04 22:16:08 Here is the error message:http://fpaste.org/paste/8538 Nov 04 22:16:45 That's not an error. Are you sure you don't have stderr redirected? Nov 04 22:17:15 make does not give me an error until last minute. Nov 04 22:17:25 Are you sure you don't have stderr redirected? Nov 04 22:18:00 there should be some error in there somewhere Nov 04 22:19:50 It is all I got for stderr redirected,http://fpaste.org/paste/8539 Nov 04 22:20:11 using make 1>out.txt 2>err.txt Nov 04 22:20:22 ioerror: I can't seem to make the magic work through strace. It just gets "socket(PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, IPPROTO_IP) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)" and doesn't work. Nov 04 22:20:42 jimp, interesting Nov 04 22:20:45 jimp, if you don't strace it? Nov 04 22:20:47 Maybe it's just someone forgot to set both UID and EUID when spawning apps..? Nov 04 22:21:11 If I reboot the phone and run /system/bin/telnetd it works. Nov 04 22:21:44 jimp, if you reboot and run /system/bin/telnetd with strace, no go? Nov 04 22:21:46 If I reboot the phone and run /data/x it fails with that error. /data/x contains "/data/local/strace -fF -v -o /data/local/strace.log /system/bin/telnetd" Nov 04 22:22:01 jimp, interesting Nov 04 22:22:19 But it might be a difference in spawning directly vs. spawning though a shell, I don't know. Nov 04 22:22:34 (in the strace, it's EUID=0 if I have +s on /system/bin/sh, and EUID=UID=10040 otherwise) Nov 04 22:22:42 joel_: First, don't split the streams like that. Do "make 2>&1" if you need to capture a single log. Second, there's a pretty clear error right at the top of that log. sh is trying to run "no" and complaining that it can't find it. I don't know what that means either, but the command text (in the other stream!) might be a good clue... Nov 04 22:22:42 jasta: i don't think its some big conspiracy. i think the wifi association logic is a mess and the thing drops connection left and right - on purpose - when its got (by it's own admittedly-coarse scale) a good connection. and roaming AP to AP is totally broken. Nov 04 22:23:24 yup i'd believe that Nov 04 22:23:35 file a bug and be done with it Nov 04 22:24:35 (or fix it *grin*) Nov 04 22:24:43 andyross: this is the whole thing here:http://fpaste.org/paste/8540 Nov 04 22:25:15 anybody got an example of a longclick on a listactivity Nov 04 22:26:17 joel_: No idea. Looks like it's doing its gettext stuff at the time. Maybe you're missing a development package? Nov 04 22:27:01 og01: i'm sure the ApiDemos does Nov 04 22:27:35 I will do the whole make instead of only make in binutil directory. Nov 04 22:27:50 og01: it's called a context menu Nov 04 22:29:06 jasta: your refering to the list? Nov 04 22:29:30 * andyross realizes what is being built. joel_: you realize there's a prebuilt toolchain, right? Nov 04 22:29:55 Yes, I know there is prebuilt toolchain. Nov 04 22:30:00 og01: i'm referring to a long click menu. they are called context menus Nov 04 22:30:11 But I was asked to build one from source. Nov 04 22:30:31 http://android.irclogs.space-lab.us/stats/ Nov 04 22:30:50 jasta: i'll look into it thanks Nov 04 22:32:00 andyross:This is the make log from top folder: http://fpaste.org/paste/8541 , Thank you very much!!! Nov 04 22:42:19 joel_: You are missing msgfmt which is usually part of the gettext package. Nov 04 22:43:03 It's not clear why configure doesn't figure that out automatically ... but installing gettext should fix it Nov 04 22:44:03 jimp:Thanks Nov 04 22:49:37 Why can't I use wildcards in a more general way in mimeType in an IntentFilter? For instance "vnd.android.cursor.item/vnd.collectionista.collection.generic" matches to "vnd.android.cursor.item/vnd.collectionista.collection.generic" but not to "vnd.android.cursor.item/vnd.collectionista.collection.*", while I think "audio/aiff" to "audio/*" would work. And as I understand I can't change the "vnd.android.cursor.item"-part. How can I work around this? Or what's the Nov 04 22:51:05 fadden: didn't quite work out. "IOException: Data exceeds UNCOMPRESS_DATA_MAX (7064551 vs 1048576)" Nov 04 22:51:09 blargh Nov 04 22:53:04 vol: two choices Nov 04 22:53:17 option #1, don't store it compressed. option #2, try using the Java getResourceAsStream stuff. Nov 04 22:53:38 mph. Nov 04 22:54:01 Incidentally, that's a HUGE library. Nov 04 22:54:15 we're basically linking together some smaller libs Nov 04 22:54:27 7MB compressed with deflate? Nov 04 22:54:30 however, there are some alone > 1mb, so that's not something solvable. Nov 04 22:54:42 er, I suppose so, I could try using deflate by itself. Nov 04 22:54:47 I just tossed it into the res folder ;| Nov 04 22:55:42 jimp: checked my ubuntu, gettext was there, and msgfmt was found as part of ruby, any idea? Will try to remove gettext then reinstall Nov 04 22:56:24 urgh, what command line tool uses deflate? Nov 04 22:56:37 gzip, zip Nov 04 22:57:03 alright, thought gzip did it. Nov 04 22:57:23 by default., right? compresses to 1.7mb Nov 04 22:57:37 er, 1.9 Nov 04 22:57:42 anyway Nov 04 22:57:49 Does anybody have any idea if the source for MyLocationOverlay is available through source.android.com and if so where I might find it. Nov 04 22:58:03 vol: so you definitely want that compressed in the APK if at all possible :-) Nov 04 22:58:12 yeah Nov 04 22:58:49 ugh, I went from delightful android land around rc5 6months ago, to grueling useless maintainance programming, back to 1.0_r1 and delving straight into crazy shit like this. Nov 04 22:59:11 my head hurts from having to relearn everything Nov 04 22:59:23 No doubt you can manually pack an apk with jar or zip, no? Nov 04 22:59:42 yeah, I can Nov 04 23:00:15 But I agree, that's a scary large library. Nov 04 23:00:25 Try ClassLoader.getResourceAsStream(). Nov 04 23:00:27 andyross: it's more like half an entire program :P Nov 04 23:01:00 Yeah, but 7M of "an entire program" is something like a web browser or word processor.... Did you try -Os? Nov 04 23:01:16 andyross: nng, don't even recall what the setting is, let me check Nov 04 23:01:43 -mthumb helps a little too if you're really strapped. Nov 04 23:01:48 andyross: I'm guessing it's more about the symbol tables and perhaps debug info than the code gen Nov 04 23:02:04 yeah, I think that symbol tables and debug stuff is still in there Nov 04 23:02:08 Yeah, good point . "strip" works better than any code generation flag will :) Nov 04 23:02:09 Android does some fancy "prelink" stuff to reduce the symbol tables to the minimum. Nov 04 23:02:23 yeah, -O0 Nov 04 23:02:26 -g Nov 04 23:02:40 could remake with -O, but I'm ready to go home ._. Nov 04 23:03:25 Dropping the "-g" will reduce the size a fair bit. Nov 04 23:04:10 alright, I'm remaking with -O and no -g, lets see how this goes Nov 04 23:05:15 What you really want is "-Os" for a small binary. Nov 04 23:05:30 I can try that next, I'll see how -O goes by itself Nov 04 23:06:16 And you can get the effect of "no -g flag" with just arm-eabi-strip, you don't need to recompile (although I'm not 100% sure that there are zero changes in the generated code, almost all the extra space is in the debug segments) Nov 04 23:06:37 Does anybody know how google render the compass in Mylocation overlay as the sensor readings I get from the Orientation Sensor have no relation to the compass bearing and yet the compass on the Map enabled via the MyLocationOverlay works perfectly. Nov 04 23:06:49 andyross: do the defaults work correctly for a .so? Nov 04 23:06:53 andyross: Aha, that's what I need to use, was trying just plain old strip :P Nov 04 23:06:55 stupid me I guess Nov 04 23:06:58 i.e. is it smart enough to leave the rloc tables Nov 04 23:07:15 No. Or not sure. What I did was copy the flags out of a build log and write a wrapper script. Nov 04 23:07:17 ha, ok, that weighs in at 2.8M Nov 04 23:07:26 --strip-unneeded ? Nov 04 23:07:36 and squeeks in gzipped at 964k! Nov 04 23:08:33 Nope, that's not in there. --gc-sections, -z,nocopyreloc, --no-undefined are the only linker flags that deal with what to eject, I think. Nov 04 23:08:40 arm-eabi-strip lops off 500k Nov 04 23:09:09 andyross: those sound like args to the linker, not strip Nov 04 23:09:39 Yes, I thought that was the question. I haven't tested a strip myself. Nov 04 23:09:40 and gzipping that takes it to 500k total. Nov 04 23:09:45 that might be the ticket then. Nov 04 23:09:50 Well, whatever works. If the .so doesn't work after stripping, try it in "raw" form before panicing. :-) Nov 04 23:10:37 so, hold on, you mentioned deflate. Are things in the res dir automatically deflated? Nov 04 23:10:56 Pro tip: if your shared library is larger than WebKit, you're doing something wrong. :-) Nov 04 23:11:06 * spikebike chuckles Nov 04 23:11:34 vol: I was referring to deflate in the context of stuff in the APK file being deflated. Nov 04 23:11:35 as mentioned, we're chunking together several of our shared libs and linking them into this one lib Nov 04 23:11:47 I actually misinterpreted something earlier -- I thought the 7MB was the deflated size, but it's the uncompressed size. Nov 04 23:12:20 The uncompressed size of an asset is capped at 1MB. I don't believe the ClassLoader resource stuff has a similar restriction. Nov 04 23:12:32 mmm. Nov 04 23:12:47 So, I can't put anything larger than 1M (uncompressed) into the APK file? Nov 04 23:12:59 Or can I? Nov 04 23:13:35 You can't take something larger than 1MB and use Zip compression on it. You could have a big fat PNG or MP3 because those don't get compressed by aapt when the zip/apk is created. Nov 04 23:13:56 And to further clarify: you can't extract it with the AssetManager. Nov 04 23:13:59 alright, so it can go into the apk, it just won't be compressed? Nov 04 23:14:03 You can have it in there, and extract it through other means. Nov 04 23:14:22 aapt knows about jpeg, png, and some others; I don't think it knows about .so. Nov 04 23:14:27 Isn't a gzip stream exposed in the API somewhere? No reason you couldn't compress it yourself. Nov 04 23:14:35 so I get it via ClassLoader.getResourceAsStream? Nov 04 23:14:47 egh, at this point, I just want it to work Nov 04 23:14:48 vol: that should work, and should not be size-limited. Nov 04 23:16:52 Remind me, how should I get the ClassLoader? Nov 04 23:16:59 I don't just create a new one, I recall you have to get it by calling some method Nov 04 23:17:04 In your application, this.getClass().getClassLoader(). Nov 04 23:17:09 right : ) Nov 04 23:17:26 Or suitable substitute. Nov 04 23:17:28 this.getClassLoader seems to work too Nov 04 23:18:02 Any advantage to doing that instead of System.load()? Seems like it needs to end up in the filesystem ultimately so it can be mapped. Nov 04 23:18:05 Only if "this" is an instance of a class that declares that method. Nov 04 23:18:18 andyross: that's where he's trying to get to. Nov 04 23:18:27 andyross: $&$@!^(%*&!%(!*&@# Nov 04 23:18:29 It needs to come out of the app APK and into the filesystem. Nov 04 23:18:35 please, PLEASE tell me where I can just place it ON A DEVICE Nov 04 23:18:38 that I can just use System.load Nov 04 23:18:41 because I would kiss you Nov 04 23:18:53 preferably in a way that ends up distributable to end users without having to use adb push Nov 04 23:19:07 ..don't kiss him in a distributable way. end users don't want that. trust me. Nov 04 23:19:12 ;D Nov 04 23:19:17 isnt there a libs folder in the apps structure? Nov 04 23:19:30 jasta: yup Nov 04 23:19:32 there is Nov 04 23:19:37 I just put it in /data/data//libWhatever.so Nov 04 23:19:40 and can't you use System.loadLibrary from there? Nov 04 23:19:45 andyross: emulator or device Nov 04 23:19:54 I'm trying for device here Nov 04 23:20:10 andyross: the full path ought to come out of the app ContextThingy in case it moves in a future release. Nov 04 23:20:44 ok where are the docs on the build system? i know they are out there somewhere :) Nov 04 23:20:54 Device. Here, this is Java part of the quickie demo that I meant to pack up but never got around to: http://fpaste.org/paste/8543 Nov 04 23:21:23 fadden: yeah, indeed. I wasn't sure where to get that info. Nov 04 23:22:28 The other stuff is just a copy of the HelloActivity demo. initNative() is the only thing you need to bother reading. Nov 04 23:22:44 ergh. What should I be putting as the string in getResourceAsStream here? getResourceName would be nice but my lib doesn't show up in R.java Nov 04 23:23:16 vol: should be the path in the zip file ... Nov 04 23:24:18 ah, so assets/filename Nov 04 23:24:45 I'm not sure if it's assets/filename or /assets/filename. Either way, it should work the same as a desktop VM. Nov 04 23:25:29 ahhhh. that seemed to work :) Nov 04 23:25:49 hooray! :D Nov 04 23:25:54 it correctly extracted Nov 04 23:25:55 Does it run? Nov 04 23:26:02 that is STEP 3! Nov 04 23:26:06 Step 2 is "Go home" Nov 04 23:26:08 I thought profit was step 3. Nov 04 23:26:13 that's step 5 Nov 04 23:26:20 right after "???" Nov 04 23:26:37 thanks all of you for helping me through this : ) Nov 04 23:26:56 I don't think I would have correctly thought to do all of this on my own Nov 04 23:27:11 hehheh Nov 04 23:27:35 I've got a script that will send me a gtalk message to my g1 every time the electoral vote totals change Nov 04 23:27:45 * jasta jams to band of horses Nov 04 23:28:12 That sounds excessively annoying. Too lazy to just bookmark your election site of choice? Nov 04 23:28:24 and i get to listen to them on my drive home. *hugs five* Nov 04 23:28:28 heh Nov 04 23:28:54 well I kinda prefer push, track the totals, and not having to keep checking a website Nov 04 23:29:06 I'm having trouble just dealing with the fact that my wife knows she can IM me on my phone. I don't need any push mode automated stuff, thank you very much :) Nov 04 23:29:56 It's a brain style thing, I guess. My stack is deep, but stiff. Pushing off a context is expensive. Nov 04 23:30:07 heh, that's one of my favorite features of the g1 Nov 04 23:30:17 I'm not reachable via wifi or cellular Nov 04 23:30:23 I often have one but not the other Nov 04 23:31:10 i still have to go drop my ballot off Nov 04 23:31:12 lame :) Nov 04 23:34:58 jasta: lol, you live in the boonies? Nov 04 23:37:06 dear god i live in the same state as jasta. Nov 04 23:37:07 * Damm moves Nov 04 23:38:19 Interesting that there are mostly americans here. Most of the other irc environments I frequent are euro-dominated. I wonder what that says about the android platform, if anything. Nov 04 23:38:51 well it's only available in US/UK if i'm not mistaken, no? Nov 04 23:39:37 Yeah, but the SDK and buzz is reasonably global. Certainly stuff like the iPhone, etc... are pretty internatinoal. Nov 04 23:40:09 england came out recently Nov 04 23:40:29 iphone is available almost everywhere in europe Nov 04 23:40:41 unix_lappy: no, i live in a major city. Nov 04 23:40:58 Right. My point was more sociological: is there something about android that appeals to americans specifically, or is it just dumb luck? Nov 04 23:40:58 people probably can't stand you guys talking about G1 wihle they can't get one ;) (like me;<) Nov 04 23:41:07 andyross: europeans here too, including me Nov 04 23:41:51 Damm: pardon me? Nov 04 23:42:11 andyross: it was the first country to get it's hands on the device? Nov 04 23:42:21 * jbq is French Nov 04 23:42:27 andyross: i'd like to see the distribution of countries in the ADC as well. Nov 04 23:47:04 man i can't wait to see how Washington votes Nov 04 23:47:07 has anyone had success using wpa_supplicant for wpa2 enterprise since we gained root access? Nov 04 23:47:08 this is gonna be hilarious Nov 04 23:47:19 lol who are you gunnin for? Nov 04 23:47:35 that's not really the point. Nov 04 23:47:41 i understand. Nov 04 23:47:41 i just mean that Washington is *so* predictable :) Nov 04 23:47:49 are the votes underway now? any link for an overview of votes so far? Nov 04 23:47:50 like oregon.. Nov 04 23:48:01 florida's polls end in 15 minutes Nov 04 23:48:22 i bet itll be like 70 to 30 in washington Nov 04 23:48:23 overall Nov 04 23:48:35 for who? Nov 04 23:48:44 obama Nov 04 23:48:44 barack Nov 04 23:48:50 bunch of blackies in washington Nov 04 23:48:54 i didn't know who washington goes for mostly. Nov 04 23:48:55 or Nov 04 23:48:57 WA and OR have only been predictably "blue" the last two or three cycles. The inner part of the states are libertarian wild west areas. Nov 04 23:49:00 but oregon will go to obama Nov 04 23:49:46 do all polls in florida end in 15 minutes, or just in *most* of florida? (been there, done that) Nov 04 23:49:49 Dougie187... florida ends at 8pm EST Nov 04 23:49:52 not 7PM Nov 04 23:49:55 oh i thought it ended at 7 Nov 04 23:49:56 And there are lots of results pages out there. Any US news organization will have a big graphic on the front page. Indiana is coming in right now, should be a few hours yet before they start calling the important east coast states (pennsylvania, virginia, florida...) Nov 04 23:50:02 Virginia is at 7pm Nov 04 23:50:13 hrm, I think it's working Nov 04 23:50:49 If McCain wins, I'd put money on rioting in multiple cities Nov 04 23:51:00 a few poles have closed already Nov 04 23:51:11 because americans are stupid Nov 04 23:51:17 first we put bush in for 2 terms Nov 04 23:51:23 now we are gonna put obama in Nov 04 23:51:31 who is stupid here? Nov 04 23:51:34 mccain = bush Nov 04 23:51:37 no... Nov 04 23:51:39 omg.. don't start a political argument in here. Nov 04 23:51:40 you are contradicting yourself buddy Nov 04 23:51:41 please.. lol Nov 04 23:51:48 yeah i'm stopping Nov 04 23:51:50 i'm done Nov 04 23:51:52 lol i voted democrat in the last 2 elections Nov 04 23:51:54 me too. Nov 04 23:51:59 congrats Nov 04 23:52:10 i don't really care Nov 04 23:52:11 OK, no politics please. Discussion about the election might not get us in trouble, but the stuff above is a flame fest waiting to happen. Nov 04 23:52:16 the only thing to discuss is talking points Nov 04 23:52:20 political arguments get way to personal. Nov 04 23:52:20 and i'm independent anyways Nov 04 23:52:25 me too Nov 04 23:53:02 but we will see in a few hours ^^ Nov 04 23:53:47 have any apps been created that use the g-sensor Nov 04 23:54:00 someone hit me with a result link, can't find a meaningful one Nov 04 23:55:21 hi all, after umounting the android sdcard from my ubuntu desktop, android still tells me that it is busy, I guess it does not automatically remount it, how can I remount it to android Nov 04 23:55:23 eldenz: cnn.com is probably fine, I'm looking at fivethirtyeight.com for analysis, not sure how fresh the data is. Nov 04 23:56:04 thanks andyross Nov 04 23:56:04 orci I've had pull the usb Nov 04 23:56:06 orci - I unplug and replug in the USB Nov 04 23:56:18 they haven't declared a winner yet? Nov 04 23:56:25 I could have done that yesterday Nov 04 23:56:52 * spikebike slurps a cnn scraper in python and when the totals change it will IM me Nov 04 23:56:53 RyeBrye: Bob Barr? Nov 04 23:56:57 15:55:30 Obama=(0, 0) Mccain=(0, 0) Nov 04 23:57:13 RyeBrye, spikebike oh is that the right way of handling this Nov 04 23:57:23 Right way... ? maybe :) Nov 04 23:57:30 rightous :) Nov 04 23:57:46 RyeBrye, proper may be more proper Nov 04 23:58:11 not sure if a usb client can tell when the usb server is done with the filesystem Nov 04 23:58:27 The iPod does, doesn't it? Nov 04 23:58:30 (if the usb connection is still present) Nov 04 23:58:36 the ipod as storage? Nov 04 23:58:38 Yeah Nov 04 23:58:43 or the ipod as the object interface? Nov 04 23:58:45 I think it has a "you may disconnect now" Nov 04 23:58:54 not sure I ever got that working in linux Nov 04 23:59:06 hmm... good point... I don't know if I've done that in linux Nov 04 23:59:15 No amount of USB device intelligence can protect it against a dirty cache on the host though. USB storage for active devices like phones was a terrible idea. Nov 04 23:59:58 (actually USB storage for filesystems like FAT was a terrible idea too, for the same reason) Nov 05 00:00:29 yeah Nov 05 00:00:39 thus most mp3 players now have an object store interface Nov 05 00:01:01 is there an irc client for android yet Nov 05 00:01:08 it's called ssh ;-) Nov 05 00:01:20 pterminal? Nov 05 00:01:25 I wonder how hard it would be to add to the IM Nov 05 00:01:29 * RyeBrye heart pterminal Nov 05 00:01:36 connectbot is easier Nov 05 00:01:37 is it like a bash shell? Nov 05 00:01:44 not in the market Nov 05 00:01:54 there is a simple shell, but no default terminal Nov 05 00:02:03 connectbot is a terminal+ssh Nov 05 00:02:27 that barcode scanner is dumb Nov 05 00:02:34 is there a sound recorder, that can encode in ogg or mp3 or something? Nov 05 00:02:35 dunno, I like it Nov 05 00:02:51 orci yeah, pretty sure Nov 05 00:02:58 not sure it's an icon, think you might need any cut Nov 05 00:03:18 spikebike, I searched for recorder in Market did not return anyhing useful Nov 05 00:04:30 someone make a bitchx client tat would rock Nov 05 00:04:48 under applications there's something called sound recorder Nov 05 00:04:59 (on the g1, not the market) Nov 05 00:05:19 What is a "BitchX client"? Does BitchX have a proxy protocol, or do you mean an IRC client? Nov 05 00:05:20 16:05:05 Obama=(147768, 3) Mccain=(157889, 8) Nov 05 00:05:23 mccain's in the lead Nov 05 00:05:34 well how about a ported bitchx for the phone Nov 05 00:05:45 sodenrox: Why BitchX? Also, you can't "port" BitchX. It's not in Java. Nov 05 00:05:57 Someone should just write or port a Java IRC client. Nov 05 00:06:00 i dont know the right terming Nov 05 00:06:02 for it Nov 05 00:06:09 A clone? Nov 05 00:06:12 spikebike, strange mine does not have that. I just have music Nov 05 00:06:15 there you go Nov 05 00:06:18 whatever Nov 05 00:06:24 i want bitchx on my g1 Nov 05 00:06:28 heh Nov 05 00:06:43 * ttuttle|voted would prefer a client custom-designed for the G1 that's better. Nov 05 00:06:59 why? Nov 05 00:07:09 what is this infatuation with an older then dirt irc client Nov 05 00:07:17 * Damm not like I can talk... but I'll try Nov 05 00:07:24 first one i ever used Nov 05 00:07:30 Have folks looked at mibbit.com -- it's an ajaxish web irc service. Stores logs for context, persistent connections. Probably a good fit for a phone. Haven't tried it on the G1. Nov 05 00:07:31 install irssi Nov 05 00:07:31 move on Nov 05 00:09:26 spikebike, any ideas where i may find this application? Nov 05 00:12:34 hmmm, not sure, I don't recall installing it Nov 05 00:13:50 If I wanted to go about debugging my phone's wifi connection - can I just leave adb logcat open and just have it monitor wifi events? Nov 05 00:14:18 * RyeBrye does not like reporting bugs unless he can attach a patch to said bug Nov 05 00:14:18 orci it's not under setup -> applications -> manage applications or similar? Nov 05 00:15:48 spikebike - how many failures are you up to now for "Failures since last success" Nov 05 00:15:50 ? Nov 05 00:15:59 17 at last count Nov 05 00:16:11 I'm on 7 now, and I was at 0 when you last counted :) Nov 05 00:16:15 spikebike, ah it is there, but it does not have a launcher in the applications drawer, so I do not know how to start it Nov 05 00:16:51 spikebike, also it does not use any hard disk space, isn't that weird? Nov 05 00:17:37 a 0 byte application? Nov 05 00:17:39 sounds useful Nov 05 00:18:09 RyeBrye, toal: 0 application: 0 data: 0 Nov 05 00:18:16 nice Nov 05 00:18:28 RyeBrye, I did not delete it Nov 05 00:18:36 i never saw it actually Nov 05 00:18:39 what is it? Nov 05 00:18:44 sound recorder app Nov 05 00:18:45 oh Nov 05 00:20:51 is there any XMPP clients? Nov 05 00:21:25 well, the google talk client is kinda an xmpp client Nov 05 00:22:14 well lol Nov 05 00:22:18 to my Nov 05 00:22:20 server Nov 05 00:22:31 i have an openfire server Nov 05 00:22:41 yeah, I'm using gtalk on gmail.com and my g1 as an xmpp client Nov 05 00:24:11 how Nov 05 00:24:19 do you add a different Nov 05 00:24:21 xmpp server Nov 05 00:27:40 not one written yet Nov 05 00:37:11 hehe, I installed this funny app breadcrumbz, but no idea how to exit it. It runs all the time Nov 05 00:37:20 it has an icon on left top Nov 05 00:39:24 hmm, i read back a bit - about sim unlocking, nowadays the unlock code is not generated based on IMEI Nov 05 00:39:32 you either get the database or hack the radio Nov 05 00:39:43 [20:10:28] you need a legit unlock code, period. (or gsm firmware and the ability to write it, which is what happened to the iphone. but thats unlikely to do any more than destroy the radio, assuming you can get in there to begin with) Nov 05 00:39:49 how is it unlikely to do more than that :) Nov 05 00:40:32 (clarification about IMEI: it is not generated from IMEI, but of course the database stores it with imei so it can be found) Nov 05 00:45:00 is there a virtual keyboard for android yet? Nov 05 00:46:13 how can i kill an app in android Nov 05 00:46:21 you can virtually type whateverg you virtually want Nov 05 00:46:27 pterminal and kill Nov 05 00:46:41 16:46:33 Obama=(1339923, 3) Mccain=(1301494, 8) Nov 05 00:46:44 spikebike, what is a pterminal? Nov 05 00:47:01 install it from the market Nov 05 00:47:08 oh ok thanks Nov 05 00:48:38 DannyB: ok, so point me on the docs about it. Nov 05 00:51:04 uluatu_: I haven't seen an onscreen keyboard yet. Nov 05 00:52:38 benley: I saw this one, but it suppose to be available on next year... http://gizmodo.com/5067760/android-is-getting-a-touchscreen-keyboard-next-year Nov 05 00:52:41 spikebike, ps | grep bread does not return anything Nov 05 00:52:49 benley: but it is running on the screenshot... Nov 05 00:53:00 is there a grep? Nov 05 00:53:16 benley: so it is already available somewhere Nov 05 00:53:18 current roadmap says "next year" for soft keyboard: http://source.android.com/roadmap Nov 05 00:54:14 spikebike, should not I receive an error in that case? Nov 05 00:58:23 maybe Nov 05 00:58:34 embedded environment aren't necessarily as good on help, syntax, and errors Nov 05 00:59:24 uluatu_, i have no idea what soft keyboard that is a screenshot of, but it has nothing to do with what is being done for the platform Nov 05 01:00:09 hackbod: this what i thought... Nov 05 01:00:15 hackbod: thanks to clarify. Nov 05 01:01:10 hackbod: and what about the keyboard that runs on the emulator, is it using some API? Is it trivial to deliver such keyboard or what? Nov 05 01:02:26 that is part of the emulator; it is completely outside of the platform Nov 05 01:02:40 it's basically the same as the 5-way and other hard keys on the emulator UI Nov 05 01:07:35 hackbod: ok Nov 05 01:08:07 something that should be threated as "soft" is the buttons. Nov 05 01:08:26 which buttons? Nov 05 01:08:29 most of phones will require that to work properly Nov 05 01:08:44 im usinf freerunner, as an example. Nov 05 01:08:50 freerunner has only two buttons Nov 05 01:08:54 ah Nov 05 01:09:00 and G1 has much more Nov 05 01:09:08 well we require call, end, home, back Nov 05 01:09:11 non-negotiable Nov 05 01:09:14 some features will require them, right? Nov 05 01:09:28 if you want to make it work on something without those buttons, you can try to hack some stuff Nov 05 01:09:46 hmmm Nov 05 01:09:47 but there are no plans in the foreseeable future to remove the requirement for those buttons Nov 05 01:10:05 so the hw must have at least four Nov 05 01:10:13 ... or you can discuss the changes on android-platform and submit appropriate patches... but that's not an easy area to work on *at all*. Nov 05 01:10:14 if nothing else, that would break most existing applications unless a part of the screen was reserved to display soft versions of those buttons Nov 05 01:10:55 like the answer button... the incoming call should popup a soft verrsion of that button Nov 05 01:11:18 maybe an user application could do that Nov 05 01:11:19 (but if you reserve part of the display for that, it can't be used for anything, even games, and then if you are using a standard lcd panel the game won't get the space on the screen it expects) Nov 05 01:11:38 Hey, is anyone else having a problem where when they're listening to music and you answer an incoming call, the headset mic doesn't work? Nov 05 01:12:04 you could modify specific parts of the ui like the phone to do that, though i doubt such changes would be accepted back into the general platform, at least if they aren't conditionalized Nov 05 01:12:29 the "open source" flag will require some freedom to chois hw. Nov 05 01:12:39 *choose hardware Nov 05 01:12:51 such changes are unlikely to be accepted if the design isn't carefully discussed ahead of time. Nov 05 01:13:31 it seems that the source as it is will only run on the G1. Nov 05 01:13:38 my personal opinion: the goal of android (at least at this point) is not to run on every piece of hardware under the sun Nov 05 01:13:58 our ui model specifies some basic requirements about the hardware, including a minimum set of hard keys Nov 05 01:14:07 hackbod: Hey. Nov 05 01:14:55 uluatu_: honestly, the source as it was released barely runs on a G1 (I've tried). Nov 05 01:14:57 hackbod: where i can find such doc? Nov 05 01:15:36 the hw requirement, could you point me there? Nov 05 01:15:39 which doc Nov 05 01:15:48 today hardware requirement == g1 Nov 05 01:15:59 ok Nov 05 01:16:17 what is your opinion about the freerunner inicative? Nov 05 01:16:22 *iniciative Nov 05 01:16:25 there is work being done to extend that to address other hardware configurations (for ex soft keyboard support) but 1.0 is specifically there to make a great product on the g1 Nov 05 01:16:50 uluatu_: a lot of work to support an obsolete and incomplete CPU architecture. Nov 05 01:17:31 uluatu_, i think it is cool and it will be great to see it running on there, but our main focus needs to be on what is needed to support products that will be shipping with android Nov 05 01:17:32 fwiw, i think itls awesome that they're doing it, even though the arch is a bit long in the tooth Nov 05 01:17:37 hackbod: I think I found a bug. Nov 05 01:17:49 it's Nov 05 01:17:57 ttuttle|voted: then file it Nov 05 01:18:09 romainguy: Okay. Nov 05 01:18:15 romainguy: /me wants to see if anyone can replicate it first. Nov 05 01:18:27 romainguy: Is all Android bugtracking now going through b.android.com? Nov 05 01:18:30 jbq: Ive been catched about the openess in hardware specifications Nov 05 01:18:34 software has no bugs! Nov 05 01:18:36 move along! Nov 05 01:18:37 hackbod: I disagree. Nov 05 01:18:48 er Nov 05 01:18:49 about what? Nov 05 01:18:50 heat: I disagree. Nov 05 01:18:54 hackbod: Sorry, tab-complete misfire. Nov 05 01:19:03 hackbod: freerunner will ship with android Nov 05 01:19:48 well, the question is whether it'll ship with the real thing, or some hack-and-slash fork. Nov 05 01:19:49 the hw spec is not the master top ultra Nov 05 01:20:05 arm9 :( Nov 05 01:20:06 but it is open and has some intersting roadmap Nov 05 01:21:03 heat: arm9 wouldn't be an issue if it had an ARMv5T instruction set. Nov 05 01:21:39 everything ship like hack-and-slash, gets better with time Nov 05 01:22:18 jbq: as long as the application api isn't hacknslashed, it'll probably be fine Nov 05 01:22:36 there are levels, though. I wouldn't want to sacrifice G1 support for the freerunner. freerunning in addition to G1, cool. freerunner instead of G1, not cool. Nov 05 01:22:48 the real thing is that you know what you have and open up a lot of business around that. There is no more need to have your phone attached to some company. Nov 05 01:24:05 jbq: true Nov 05 01:24:47 As a personal opinion, I have no interest in the freerunner if I can't flash it from the android source tree and submit improvements back to the android source tree, but that's just me. I don't have anything against forks, they just don't interest me. And that's a personal opinion. Nov 05 01:25:23 wow, that was crazy Nov 05 01:25:39 its hailing in seattle Nov 05 01:25:59 is it the End Times? Nov 05 01:26:22 uluatu, there are a number of things about the freerunner that i think don't match with current android to result in a great product: VGA screen (we are currently only doing HVGA), not enough buttons, no keyboard. Nov 05 01:27:00 some of these are on the roadmap (soft input), some are not yet but one would assume would be addressed (VGA), some would be really really hard to deal with (not enough buttons) Nov 05 01:27:47 jasta: seriously? Is it that cold there already? Nov 05 01:27:55 snowing in the mountains Nov 05 01:27:55 hackbod: ok, thi is why the phone is threated as entirely open. You know what he has and what he is missing. Nov 05 01:28:01 so my definition of someone making a product with android is to design a piece of hardware to run the android system. Nov 05 01:28:12 i bought a seasons pass this year :) Nov 05 01:28:21 you ski or snowboard? Nov 05 01:28:28 So, just put the changes on and stay with the software community Nov 05 01:28:30 snowboard Nov 05 01:28:36 i think having an open phone hardware platform is wonderful. it would be great for them to do an iteration for android with the appropriate buttons and such. Nov 05 01:28:38 snowboarding is more fun, i think at least. Nov 05 01:28:49 do you own a board? Nov 05 01:28:58 uhh, yeah ;) Nov 05 01:29:05 is it plastic? Nov 05 01:29:05 meanwhile the android system will be getting more flexible about handling other things like lack of keyboard. Nov 05 01:29:05 lol Nov 05 01:29:11 Dougie187: surfing here, south of Brazil. Nov 05 01:29:28 uluatu_: that sounds fun, but i have yet to try that. Nov 05 01:29:41 I would like to wakeboard though too Nov 05 01:29:43 Dougie187: You should. Nov 05 01:29:45 water skiing is pretty fun Nov 05 01:29:58 but just trying to take some existing piece of hardware and cram android on to it is not I think likely to result in a good product. Nov 05 01:30:40 hackbod: well, that depends entirely on the ambitions of the hacker :) Nov 05 01:30:42 it's a great start, though, i think Nov 05 01:31:14 hackbod: hey? Why not? Nov 05 01:31:19 for instance, you could undo a lot of assumptions made about the hardware (buttons, screen, etc) and construct an entirely new product Nov 05 01:31:25 yeah i am not saying it's not good to do... just that some of the things needed to make it work are probably not things we want in the main platform (such as whatever needs to be done to address the lack of hard buttons) Nov 05 01:31:30 hackbod: isn't it part of a product project? Nov 05 01:31:32 binary compatible with Android, but otherwise not Nov 05 01:31:38 hackbod: think GNOME versus KDE, for example. Nov 05 01:31:44 hackbod: mass testing Nov 05 01:31:58 jasta, are you talking about reworking the android ui to not rely on hard buttons? Nov 05 01:31:59 after that, mass development Nov 05 01:32:23 hackbod: i am saying anything is possible. you could just simply take the layers beneath the UI and go an entirely different direction if you wanted to as well Nov 05 01:32:43 jasta, sure you can, and that wouldn't be android, so it wouldn't be part of the android project Nov 05 01:33:03 basic issue: if you want to do something that is going to break all existing apps, i'd have a hard time calling the result android. Nov 05 01:33:21 hackbod: it would be a misnomer to say either it is or is not android. Nov 05 01:33:35 in this case, it would _use_ android, and be built atop it. Nov 05 01:33:48 hackbod: a good software should address future needs, like a "no button" PDA. Nov 05 01:34:01 well we can argue semantics, but if it doesn't run android apps, i really wouldn't think of it as android Nov 05 01:34:37 hackbod: and it might run android apps all the same, or it might not. Nov 05 01:34:47 uluatu, would you like to have a good polished product that ships or a completely flexible product that doesn't? we chose the former. :) Nov 05 01:35:22 hackbod: semantics are important here. you don't want to squash the imagination :) Nov 05 01:35:27 we have a lot of flexibility built into the platform where it made sense, but there are just some fundamental aspects to the ui navigation that don't make sense to try to make super flexible any time soon. Nov 05 01:35:50 and google likely will not Nov 05 01:35:55 but someone might. Nov 05 01:36:03 jasta, i said earlier that you could do something like reserve a part of the screen for the required buttons Nov 05 01:36:12 and to then say this product is now something other than android entirely is much too narrow, i think Nov 05 01:36:13 so there are things you can do and have android running on that hardware Nov 05 01:37:11 jasta, why would you -want- to call something "android" that is not compatible? isn't that just confusing to everyone? Nov 05 01:37:43 i would merely say that it uses android, or is based on android, for instance. Nov 05 01:37:49 but i would never say "it is not android." Nov 05 01:38:01 as i said, semantics are important when the imagination is concerned Nov 05 01:38:33 is there a way to tell what device your running on? eg. if (G1) useAbsoluteLayout=true; else useLinearLayout=true; Nov 05 01:38:35 * jasta wanders off Nov 05 01:39:13 gambler, look at android.os.Build Nov 05 01:39:51 ah cool Nov 05 01:41:03 gambler: i think the greater challenge is input models for various devices vs layout models. Nov 05 01:42:16 unix_infidel, yeah thats a tricky one Nov 05 01:43:17 like for instance, we talked about this at AndroidDevCamp, how to accomodate for future devices without the back button. Nov 05 01:45:00 Im confused about that already. KeyEvent.KEYCODE_DPAD_CENTER works on the emulator but not on the G1 skin. Nov 05 01:45:08 Is the little roller ball clickable? Nov 05 01:45:24 yes. Nov 05 01:48:03 ah i can comment that code back in then :p Nov 05 01:49:08 hmm, it seems the EAP server at the starbucks is running embedded linux (debian arm) Nov 05 01:49:14 EAP?! Nov 05 01:49:16 At Starbucks?! Nov 05 01:49:23 ttuttle|voted: yea. Nov 05 01:49:26 Wow. Nov 05 01:49:43 ttuttle|voted: they're called att hot spots :-P Nov 05 01:49:58 unix_infidel: Right. Nov 05 01:50:04 unix_infidel: Hmm, I have AT&T! Nov 05 01:50:27 so you can use them at any of a bajillion hotspots :-P Nov 05 01:51:48 i thought starbucks was a tmo house? Nov 05 01:51:58 they ditched T-Mobile. Nov 05 01:52:08 ttuttle|voted: yes you have ATT but you CHEATED! Nov 05 01:52:17 HEH. Nov 05 01:53:32 unix_infidel: yep ;-) Nov 05 01:53:48 17:50:15 Obama=(8382722, 102) Mccain=(8469596, 34) Nov 05 01:54:33 spikebike: What's the format of that? Nov 05 01:54:48 spikebike: (votes, electors)? Nov 05 01:54:59 ttuttle|voted: (popular, electoral) Nov 05 01:55:03 obama won Nov 05 01:55:17 cool Nov 05 01:55:20 spikebike: where's teh data from? Nov 05 01:55:48 an XMPP message ;-) Nov 05 01:55:55 cnn.com Nov 05 01:55:57 spikebike: ah Nov 05 01:56:24 laz: won? Nov 05 01:56:31 lets not get ahead of ourselves Nov 05 01:56:38 he's merely a 3rd of the way there Nov 05 01:57:16 Fun that McCain has the popular vote, but Obama has the electoral. Nov 05 01:57:24 By a pretty good margin so far. Nov 05 01:57:32 ahaberlacho: damn rednecks Nov 05 01:58:00 he was winning texas for a bit ;P Nov 05 01:58:58 is there a todo app in android? Nov 05 01:59:09 yes Nov 05 02:01:37 lol 174 electoral votes for obama Nov 05 02:02:41 Laz: whoa, where? Nov 05 02:02:55 Ah, it just passed 9 PM. Nov 05 02:05:41 18:03:37 Obama=(10432403, 174) Mccain=(10418113, 49) Nov 05 02:05:56 this just in: over 9000 electoral votes for ron paul Nov 05 02:06:06 nuh uh Nov 05 02:06:18 i wish Nov 05 02:06:21 ron paul is my hero Nov 05 02:07:07 hes the only real man that ran for president Nov 05 02:07:14 obama = mccain Nov 05 02:07:22 they both want to blow your money Nov 05 02:07:30 but at least obama wants to blow it in our country Nov 05 02:08:05 we need to get rid of dem and repub Nov 05 02:08:08 d0nets: i agree :) Nov 05 02:08:11 they are essentialy 2 cartels Nov 05 02:08:13 swetland for president! Nov 05 02:08:26 thats why if you look at the debate commission or whatever its called, it consists of the heads of those 2 parties only Nov 05 02:08:36 so third party tickets have no chance of debating Nov 05 02:08:43 which is lame Nov 05 02:08:51 abolish the political parties...and make corruption a death penalty offense Nov 05 02:08:58 amen Nov 05 02:08:58 lol Nov 05 02:09:12 i think with today's technology we could build a better infrastructure Nov 05 02:09:17 utilize the constitution Nov 05 02:09:22 but amend where needed Nov 05 02:09:43 to modify the election process Nov 05 02:15:07 Laz, which one is the todo app you mentioned? Nov 05 02:15:13 Good morning taiwan~ Nov 05 02:15:40 oh is there a good todo app now? Nov 05 02:15:46 also need ebook reader Nov 05 02:17:42 i want a randomiser app Nov 05 02:17:57 one that you can put multiple choices in Nov 05 02:18:01 and it pics one randomly Nov 05 02:19:46 you make decisions like that too? dont worry ill definitely write that at some point Nov 05 02:20:19 EightBall.apk? :) Nov 05 02:20:58 I want a shared todo Nov 05 02:21:06 synced between multiple G1s Nov 05 02:21:19 cbeust, the accellerometer is there for a reason :p Nov 05 02:21:44 spikebike: Sounds like a Google Doc application Nov 05 02:21:46 i.e. grocery lists and th elike Nov 05 02:22:06 well there needs to be a notify aspect Nov 05 02:22:22 i.e. you said X, did you want brand a or b Nov 05 02:22:23 Yes, the back-end would use Doc and the front-end can do whatever you need Nov 05 02:22:39 or did you want 2.25 LBs or 3.5LBs Nov 05 02:24:48 http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f10/diy-creak-fix-4596/ Nov 05 02:31:04 orci: Toodo Nov 05 02:33:06 Laz, thank you Nov 05 02:35:21 nbc calls ohio for ob. thus ends the election Nov 05 02:35:56 eh? Nov 05 02:36:07 obama Nov 05 02:36:52 waldo-g1: watch AP. they're much more conservative (and historically more likely to be right) Nov 05 02:37:07 yea nbc is deffy leaning obama Nov 05 02:37:13 its the only thing i can watch here tho Nov 05 02:37:14 whoever takes ohio takes the election? Nov 05 02:37:21 no other local stations are broadcasting in HD correctly Nov 05 02:37:35 local nbc affil looks gorgeous in HD Nov 05 02:37:44 all the pretty bargraphs and stuff on the sides :) Nov 05 02:37:48 heh Nov 05 02:38:10 neekers: lemme sum up. right now they're estimated roughly 50/50 in popular (individual) vote. but the electoral collage is about 150 obama, 60 mccain. (yes, the numbers are totally vague. the ratio si the important bit) Nov 05 02:38:27 actually abc is 200/90 so .. Nov 05 02:39:38 I wouldn't want to be a black person driving through a state that voted for mccain right now :| Nov 05 02:39:40 ..tukw.qwest.net .. looks like usa. you should know this stuff. Nov 05 02:40:15 languish: actually.. most of the mccain supporters i've talked to nationwide are more about gun laws and taxes than race. but maybe i just know an enlightened set of rednecks :) Nov 05 02:40:22 how much of the electoral college do you need? Nov 05 02:40:32 270 Nov 05 02:40:34 Disconnect, hopefully so. :) Nov 05 02:40:34 270 Nov 05 02:41:48 2009 is sure gonna be interesting with a president that thinks there're 58 states Nov 05 02:42:00 * languish chuckles Nov 05 02:42:27 but at least that's better than mccain Nov 05 02:42:28 and .. i really think people getting fucked over by ballooning mortgage payments are total morons. "oh no its terrible everyone help, i borrowed money i couldn't pay back and now they want it.." Nov 05 02:42:41 Disconnect, agreed Nov 05 02:42:46 wholeheartedly Nov 05 02:42:48 * neekers voted for obama Nov 05 02:42:55 we shouldn't be bailing these idiots out Nov 05 02:42:58 (abc is running a little "omg we're hispanic and we lost our house christmas is gonna be terrible" segment) Nov 05 02:43:07 :| Nov 05 02:43:19 go to mexico, it's warmer Nov 05 02:43:23 :D Nov 05 02:43:26 * languish problem solver Nov 05 02:43:30 heh Nov 05 02:44:36 * Disconnect is mortgaged exactly as far as we can reasonably be (and thats about 20% farther then we wanted to, but most of it went abck into the house) .. if we both get canned we have enough slack to get new jobs or sell the house. Nov 05 02:45:01 but yeah, we sure as hell shouldn't be bailing out executive golden parachutes on these failed companies, and calling people who could never afford a home in the first place "homeowners" Nov 05 02:45:53 remember 2002? "I'm Jeff, I'll be your waiter tonight. But here's my resume, I'm really a web designer. I'm really good with the windows and the netscape. Our specials tonight..." Nov 05 02:46:12 Disconnect: lol Nov 05 02:46:14 * languish goes back to enjoying the drinks his wife made.. --> http://i33.tinypic.com/11t7i2h.jpg Nov 05 02:46:55 ...that looks like something i last saw at a bachelorette party. Nov 05 02:46:59 Disconnect: looks yummy Nov 05 02:47:13 but it makes me think i want to beg the wif to make mint juleps. Nov 05 02:47:29 elections over yy Nov 05 02:47:31 *yay Nov 05 02:47:42 fcrick: give it a few hours Nov 05 02:47:47 nah its done Nov 05 02:47:58 ohio + pa for obama means win Nov 05 02:48:03 It's only over if FL goes Obama. Nov 05 02:48:07 nope Nov 05 02:48:11 florida doesn't matter Nov 05 02:48:23 I hear that WA is the state to watch now. Nov 05 02:48:43 no with NM he doesn't need WA Nov 05 02:48:50 what about canada? Nov 05 02:48:55 fcrick: wait for the final results. lots of electronic voting machines still out there :/ Nov 05 02:49:03 it's Patron XO Cafe (coffee liquoer & tequila), baileys carmel irish cream, godiva white chocolate liquor, milk and whipped cream Nov 05 02:49:31 i dunno i live in WA and 0 chance of mccain win here Nov 05 02:49:31 languish: that sounds soo nasty Nov 05 02:49:39 it's delicious Nov 05 02:49:47 fcrick: seattle? Nov 05 02:49:48 not as sweet as it sounds either Nov 05 02:49:51 even if he takes WA obama wins Nov 05 02:49:51 ..yah. sounds like a bj shooter. (baileys, kahluha, whipped creme) Nov 05 02:50:19 There's a lot of Eastern Washington, even if it's sparsely populated. Nov 05 02:50:23 I still can't imagine how mccain won nore than 2 states at all Nov 05 02:50:36 languish: look atthe states he won Nov 05 02:50:41 yes i know Nov 05 02:50:44 * languish facepalm Nov 05 02:50:55 I can't believe Luisiana is still voting for Republicans, after Katrina. Nov 05 02:50:55 i wasnt expecting them to go to obama anyway Nov 05 02:51:02 thats real America Nov 05 02:51:03 ahaberlacho: sheeple Nov 05 02:51:24 most polls have WA 15 points up for obama...but it doesn't matter now Nov 05 02:52:00 well, we dodged a bullet, let's hope we didn't do it just to stand in front of a cannon Nov 05 02:53:06 VP elect Biden is one scary dude Nov 05 02:53:21 nah.. joe is awesome Nov 05 02:53:27 yeah biden is a little intense hehe Nov 05 02:53:29 biden aint bad Nov 05 02:53:35 if I didn't believe in personal freedoms, I'd agree with you Nov 05 02:53:45 you still think you have those? Nov 05 02:53:48 no Nov 05 02:53:50 fool Nov 05 02:53:52 I just believe in them Nov 05 02:53:57 i do to Nov 05 02:53:59 I realize google owns my soul Nov 05 02:54:11 i believe in gnomes Nov 05 02:54:11 * Disconnect disagrees with the dem position on gun ownership right now. but disagrees way less than with most everything mccain/palin has said Nov 05 02:54:42 I'm a Dem that believes in (hand)gun ownership. Nov 05 02:54:45 well, I think the whole election this time around was purposely tilted towards obama Nov 05 02:54:48 palin is a dumb cunt who has no place leading anything other than my _____ into her _____ Nov 05 02:54:53 did i join the wrong channel? Nov 05 02:54:53 gun ownership for "safety" is stupid.. gun ownership for fun is aswesome! Nov 05 02:55:02 michaelnovakjr: prolly Nov 05 02:55:10 michaelnovakjr, on erection night, every channel is the wrong channel Nov 05 02:55:14 d0nets: getting a little graphic there Nov 05 02:55:18 michaelnovakjr: or at least, if you have something on topic you should interject before complaining :) Nov 05 02:55:19 yea sorry fcrick Nov 05 02:55:22 d0nets: you should check out #politics Nov 05 02:55:31 i figured sice we were talking about politics, id slip that in Nov 05 02:55:32 just checking Nov 05 02:55:37 never seen the n-word used so much lol Nov 05 02:55:40 just like id slip my _____ into palins ____ Nov 05 02:55:50 *sigh* Nov 05 02:55:52 whats the difference between palin's mouth and vagina? Nov 05 02:55:56 st0ned, stop being a dork Nov 05 02:55:58 d0nets: ..seriously, enough. Nov 05 02:56:01 sorry inttoit Nov 05 02:56:03 sorry guys Nov 05 02:56:05 but she is hot Nov 05 02:56:08 you cant lie Nov 05 02:56:08 not everything coming out of her vagina is retarded Nov 05 02:56:12 lol Nov 05 02:56:15 hahahahahahhaha Nov 05 02:56:18 hahahahahahah Nov 05 02:56:21 ..unlike heat Nov 05 02:56:29 <_avatar> *sigh* indeed Nov 05 02:56:31 heh Nov 05 02:56:33 d0nets: dude yeah seriously check out #politics you ca't get kicked from that chan if you try as hard as you can Nov 05 02:56:34 i had to do it :( Nov 05 02:56:44 fcrick Nov 05 02:56:45 bs Nov 05 02:56:49 seriously Nov 05 02:56:51 try it Nov 05 02:56:52 i lasted 5 mins in that chan Nov 05 02:56:55 the first time i joined Nov 05 02:56:58 they dont like paulites Nov 05 02:56:59 abc calling 200/130 for obama Nov 05 02:57:08 we pwn them Nov 05 02:57:19 yeah they all would call the election but too many polls still open Nov 05 02:57:41 i bet when the west coast closes polls everyone will call it Nov 05 02:58:44 well we know obama will take CA Nov 05 02:58:56 so that puts him at like 250+ Nov 05 02:59:01 where's the android election following app? Nov 05 02:59:02 he needs florida and its over Nov 05 02:59:11 yeah basically unless mccain wins california he loses Nov 05 02:59:29 i know for a fact our polling location hasn't reported ('technical difficulties'.. shoud have gotten observer creds when i had the chance last week sigh) but md is called for obama. so remember that just cuz abc/cnn/whomever calls it doesn't mean its legit **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 05 02:59:57 2008