**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 05 02:59:57 2008
Nov 05 03:00:40 <fcrick> i dunno illegit won't bring back PA with mccain 25 points down with 47% reporting
Nov 05 03:01:13 <Disconnect> 4 more states/ 20 votes just closed
Nov 05 03:01:47 <Disconnect> abc is calling iowa for obama, utah for mccain, unknown nevada, montana
Nov 05 03:02:22 <fcrick> at this point Ohio is what you need to watch
Nov 05 03:02:42 <fcrick> unless the Ohio call is revoked, mccain just can't get to 270
Nov 05 03:02:57 <Disconnect> only 7 electorals i thought
Nov 05 03:03:03 <fcrick> Ohio?
Nov 05 03:03:47 <Disconnect> sorry dyslexic'ed iowa/ohio
Nov 05 03:04:56 <fcrick> but yeah unless like 90% of the remaining ppl in PA vote McCain, obama gets PA, and with PA and Ohio Obama has a 100% win chance
Nov 05 03:05:10 <fcrick> those two states and its a lock
Nov 05 03:08:31 <Disconnect> personally, i think that too many people are asking too many questions about elections after 2000/2004 and it'll be 2012 before anything happens to start people thinking again. (which applies even if obama would have lost...)
Nov 05 03:09:00 <spikebike> 19:08:43 Obama=(24199180, 207) Mccain=(23529805, 89)
Nov 05 03:09:14 <tmccrary> oh boy I can feel my taxes going up already
Nov 05 03:09:15 <Disconnect> abc is showing 207/135
Nov 05 03:09:50 <`vip> msnbc is showing 207/129
Nov 05 03:09:58 <Disconnect> tmccrary: most analysts don't expect anything to change for the next 2-3 years. also, how much would htey go down without the hemmorage of war and wasted bailouts?
Nov 05 03:10:23 <tmccrary> hey the war in iraq was important
Nov 05 03:10:40 <Disconnect> palin thinks iraq attacked the usa on 9/11.
Nov 05 03:10:41 <tmccrary> it and afghanistan were clear messages to the surrounding tribals to not mess with texas
Nov 05 03:11:09 <Disconnect> http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/11/palin-iraq-911/
Nov 05 03:11:53 <tmccrary> well to be fair, alqaeda was in iraq
Nov 05 03:12:06 <tmccrary> and one of their branches actually did carry out the attacks at the wtc
Nov 05 03:12:23 <tmccrary> I stress was, because uncle sam put a boot in their ass and ran them out of the country
Nov 05 03:12:37 <tmccrary> that said
Nov 05 03:12:50 <tmccrary> I'm not to sure they were in iraq before 9/11
Nov 05 03:12:53 <tmccrary> *too
Nov 05 03:13:20 <fcrick> i'm still confused as to why we invaded iraq...
Nov 05 03:13:26 <tmccrary> yeah well, things is crazy
Nov 05 03:13:35 <Disconnect> fcrick: because we lost vietnam
Nov 05 03:13:36 <fcrick> just seemed so...bizarre...
Nov 05 03:13:41 <tmccrary> personally, I think it was a strategic move to have a presence in the middle east
Nov 05 03:13:51 <fcrick> at least there was a reason to go to vietnam
Nov 05 03:14:00 <fcrick> even if it wasn't a good one
Nov 05 03:14:10 <tmccrary> so it will be easier to mobilize when things get tight and we get tied of paying the middle east for our oil
Nov 05 03:14:27 <tmccrary> I would say, strategically iraq was a much better move than vietnam
Nov 05 03:14:33 <Disconnect> tmccrary: before we lit it all up we had freedom to put bases just about anywhere we liked.
Nov 05 03:14:53 <fcrick> yeah now called + safe states = 284 votes
Nov 05 03:14:57 <tmccrary> yeah but we were guests... not an occupying force
Nov 05 03:15:03 <tmccrary> you have a little more leeway when you run things
Nov 05 03:15:06 <Disconnect> and if you (not personally :) ..) want to play the 9/11 card, or the human rights card, we needed to be invading saudi arabia instead.
Nov 05 03:15:34 <tmccrary> I totally agree, at some point that may be necessary. It's funny that iraq was one of the freest middle eastern countries under saddam
Nov 05 03:15:41 <tmccrary> so long as you didn't mess with his gestapo
Nov 05 03:15:45 <fcrick> so obama can loose Colorado, Florida, Nevada, Virginia, North Carolina, Indiana, Missouri, and Montana and still win
Nov 05 03:16:06 <Disconnect> yah. and - seriously - he did less to his people with nerve gas than we did to our own with nukes..
Nov 05 03:16:13 <spikebike> heat my wife just had a much better punchline
Nov 05 03:16:15 <Disconnect> he's not gonna lose va
Nov 05 03:16:33 <fcrick> well, it doesn't matter now :)
Nov 05 03:16:38 <duey> Disconnect, its pretty close
Nov 05 03:16:51 <Disconnect> ok abc keeps screwing up their sound feeds.
Nov 05 03:16:59 <tmccrary> gee, I wonder who will win california... ;)
Nov 05 03:17:07 <Damm> sigh
Nov 05 03:17:10 <Damm> politics in android?
Nov 05 03:17:19 <tmccrary> nah, its just for tonight
Nov 05 03:17:25 <tmccrary> tomorrow none of this will matter
Nov 05 03:17:38 <Disconnect> tmccrary: it'll matter a lot. but it won't be worth discussing :)
Nov 05 03:17:52 <hackbod> i just care about whether i will still be married tomorrow :/
Nov 05 03:17:56 <fcrick> yeah in 45 mins news networks will call the election and its over
Nov 05 03:17:59 <tmccrary> Meet the new boss, same as the old boss
Nov 05 03:18:00 <Disconnect> Damm: like i told michaelnovakjr .. if you have an on-topic discussion, launch it before bitching :)
Nov 05 03:18:17 <duey> cnn has already called it
Nov 05 03:18:27 <duey> they are discussing what kind of president he willbe lol
Nov 05 03:18:44 <Disconnect> tmccrary: i made that same comment while checking results over dinner. when did i get old and decide that one old rich guy was better than some other similar old rich guy..?
Nov 05 03:18:54 <Disconnect> duey: obama?
Nov 05 03:18:57 <duey> yeah
Nov 05 03:19:25 <duey> i don't think obama is rich
Nov 05 03:19:37 <duey> at least when compared to mccain..
Nov 05 03:19:46 <tmccrary> well, not filthy rich, but he and his wife aren't doing bad
Nov 05 03:19:47 <d0nets> mccain doesnt know how many houses he has
Nov 05 03:19:52 <d0nets> i know how many i have
Nov 05 03:19:53 <tmccrary> mccain just lives off his wife's money
Nov 05 03:19:53 <d0nets> 0
Nov 05 03:20:05 <tmccrary> *his wife's family fortune that is
Nov 05 03:20:08 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 05 03:20:09 <duey> tmccrary, yeah obv
Nov 05 03:20:18 <duey> at least obama worked for it
Nov 05 03:20:31 <tmccrary> yeah I wouldn't call being a senator "working for it"
Nov 05 03:20:43 <tmccrary> especially since obama was a good half hour late for practically every hearing
Nov 05 03:20:51 <duey> lol
Nov 05 03:20:56 <duey> at least he turned up
Nov 05 03:21:02 <tmccrary> yeah, better late than never
Nov 05 03:21:04 <Disconnect> i hate to bring up charlie wilson again... :)
Nov 05 03:21:10 <duey> who?
Nov 05 03:21:17 <fcrick> well, obama sure managed to recruit an army to help him...someone even came by my house making sure I'd voted
Nov 05 03:21:29 <Disconnect> duey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wilson_(Texas_politician)#Entry_into_politics
Nov 05 03:21:42 <tmccrary> I think obama got lucky, Bush's policies screwed the republican side so bad
Nov 05 03:21:47 <duey> fcrick, someone has an obama sign on my street...and i live in new zealand
Nov 05 03:21:54 <fcrick> hahaha
Nov 05 03:21:55 <tmccrary> and then this recession hit, basically sealing the deal
Nov 05 03:21:55 <tmccrary> lol
Nov 05 03:21:56 <Disconnect> ok cnn is like 45 mins behind
Nov 05 03:22:11 <d0nets> i loved charley wilson's war
Nov 05 03:22:13 <d0nets> excellent movie
Nov 05 03:22:19 <d0nets> great representation of blowback
Nov 05 03:22:27 <fcrick> yeah tom hanks makes a good movie
Nov 05 03:22:29 <Disconnect> d0nets: the true story of charlie wilson (discovery iirc) is more accurate and just as good :)
Nov 05 03:22:59 <d0nets> is it a show on discovery?
Nov 05 03:23:00 <d0nets> can i dl it?
Nov 05 03:23:08 <Disconnect> i think so and prolly. thats the title
Nov 05 03:23:25 <fcrick> you can download discovery shows?
Nov 05 03:23:30 <fcrick> or u mean torrents?
Nov 05 03:24:26 <Disconnect> Dialekt: before you complain, welcome to usa election discussion. if you have android stuff, ask it or say it before you complain about the conversation :)
Nov 05 03:24:34 <Dialekt> .
Nov 05 03:24:47 <Disconnect> :)
Nov 05 03:25:09 * Dialekt complains now just because you told him not to
Nov 05 03:25:48 <Disconnect> heh
Nov 05 03:26:01 <tmccrary> ah, they locked Obama's wikipedia article
Nov 05 03:26:08 <tmccrary> I wanted to be the one to make the change
Nov 05 03:26:18 <Disconnect> heh
Nov 05 03:26:23 <Disconnect> so did everyone
Nov 05 03:27:53 <fcrick> they even locked the obama talk page
Nov 05 03:29:14 <m2> someone edited the article and replaced "member" by "nigger"
Nov 05 03:29:26 <m2> and a sysop noticed
Nov 05 03:29:42 <trigatch4> which is the reason mccain has so many votes
Nov 05 03:29:49 <trigatch4> all those... educated.. republicans
Nov 05 03:29:56 <tmccrary> I wonder how often shenanigans like that are going to go on
Nov 05 03:30:06 <tmccrary> with Obama in the white house
Nov 05 03:30:12 <trigatch4> forever
Nov 05 03:30:19 <trigatch4> just depends what social circles you run in
Nov 05 03:30:24 <fcrick> tmccrary: all the time i look after a family member's page ppl are always doing random stuff
Nov 05 03:30:30 <andyross> Probably a 10 year old punk.  This kind of hugely popular subject is where Wikipedia does the worst.  It's a reference for facts not in dispute.
Nov 05 03:30:34 <tmccrary> I hope the secret service is stepping up
Nov 05 03:30:42 <tmccrary> there are a lot crazy rednecks idiots out there
Nov 05 03:30:50 <Disconnect> trigatch4: ..sigh. "(10:28pm) Guess what. I voted against obama, which everyone says makes me a racist. So i'll be a racist and give them something to bitch about"
Nov 05 03:30:59 <fcrick> yeah i am i little worred about obama's safety
Nov 05 03:31:12 <andyross> Shenanigans like, say, blowing up a building in OK City? :)  Stuff just happens.  Psychopaths are all around us.
Nov 05 03:31:45 <fcrick> yeah lot of people out there that hate black people though...
Nov 05 03:31:50 <Adamant> you guys are pretty much as bigoted as the people you claim to be decrying
Nov 05 03:31:53 <Hiro2> anybody here have tmobile G1?
Nov 05 03:31:58 <fcrick> me
Nov 05 03:31:58 <Disconnect> nope
Nov 05 03:31:58 <benley> plenty of people
Nov 05 03:32:10 <Hiro2> fcrick: how long did the internet activation take?
Nov 05 03:32:15 <Disconnect> Adamant: who's a 'you guys' and what do you base that off?
Nov 05 03:32:16 <tmccrary> Adamant: what?
Nov 05 03:32:21 <fcrick> 2-3 minutes?
Nov 05 03:32:24 <fcrick> or less
Nov 05 03:32:27 <andyross> Hiro2: almost instantaneous for me.
Nov 05 03:32:39 <Hiro2> mine is supposed to be activated today
Nov 05 03:32:43 <spikebike> ya worked in about a minute.
Nov 05 03:32:45 <Hiro2> i still havent got it
Nov 05 03:32:47 <tmccrary> I got to do my internet activation twice
Nov 05 03:32:48 * Disconnect had existing tmob account. otherwise it was just a minute or so
Nov 05 03:32:51 <Dialekt> fcrick: how u liking it?
Nov 05 03:33:03 <Disconnect> i've heard of stores not activating a data plan tho
Nov 05 03:33:05 <fcrick> <- chatting on it right now
Nov 05 03:33:16 <Hiro2> i have the data plan
Nov 05 03:33:19 <cbeust> I transferred from AT&T and they ported my number in a couple of hours, got 3G right away
Nov 05 03:33:29 <Hiro2> this sux
Nov 05 03:33:52 * Disconnect had to sait 2-3 weeks for 3g
Nov 05 03:33:53 <Disconnect> wait
Nov 05 03:33:58 <fcrick> i dunno its my first phone that even had a camera let alone a keyboard or internet
Nov 05 03:34:05 * benley had to wait 2-3 months for 3g :-P
Nov 05 03:34:32 <Hiro2> btw can i download any apps via computer then transfer over usb?
Nov 05 03:34:37 <andyross> 3G was up in Portland on the 21st when my phone arrived, actually.  I was pleased.
Nov 05 03:34:57 <languish> Hiro2, there's an app in the market that lets you load other apps off the sd card
Nov 05 03:35:00 <andyross> Still falls back to EDGE fairly commonly though.  I'm in the suburbs.
Nov 05 03:35:07 <languish> Hiro2, do it that way instead
Nov 05 03:35:08 <Disconnect> no 3g at home, 3g at work
Nov 05 03:35:11 <spikebike> edge on g1 IMO is pretty good
Nov 05 03:35:19 <Hiro2> languish: so usually it's installed onto the phone?
Nov 05 03:35:26 <Disconnect> spikebike: its not bad. its not as bad as a lot of people claim. but its nothing on 3g :)
Nov 05 03:35:29 <andyross> EDGE is ... OK.  It's better than GPRS certainly.
Nov 05 03:35:52 <Hiro2> i brought my G1 to work today, every iphone owners hated it, haha
Nov 05 03:36:00 <Hiro2> saying how iphone is better
Nov 05 03:36:37 <Disconnect> its got a lot, including stability and software maturity
Nov 05 03:36:37 <romainguy_> Hiro2: both  are just a phone :)
Nov 05 03:36:42 <andyross> iPhone *owners* are never going to like the G1.  That's just not market Google can win.  But to people still looking, I think it's a great phone.  Better than Apple in some areas (the keyboard alone is a huge win for some uses), worse in others.
Nov 05 03:36:48 <Disconnect> even compared release day to release day
Nov 05 03:36:48 <kslater> there is a speed test app. you can always run that and see what sort of numbers you get with gprs / edge / 3g / wifi
Nov 05 03:37:21 <Disconnect> dslreports.com/mtest iirc
Nov 05 03:37:25 <d0nets> they should make one for aderall/meth/coke/ and crack
Nov 05 03:37:30 <Disconnect> no need for gps-location-stealing app
Nov 05 03:37:44 <kslater> hehe
Nov 05 03:37:54 <languish> <Hiro2> languish: so usually it's installed onto the phone?
Nov 05 03:38:03 <spikebike> hiro about 5-6 folks in my social group have iphones
Nov 05 03:38:22 <languish> hiro, yes they install to the phone
Nov 05 03:38:28 <orci> is there a facebook app?
Nov 05 03:38:32 <d0nets> orci no
Nov 05 03:38:37 * kslater was surprised how well moving maps worked in gprs land on a long drive today
Nov 05 03:38:38 <sodenrox> have they unlocked the widgets yet?
Nov 05 03:38:39 <spikebike> all seem to want the features of the g1
Nov 05 03:38:44 <sodenrox> thats all we are missing
Nov 05 03:38:47 <d0nets> i read an article claiming there might not be a fb app?
Nov 05 03:38:48 <sodenrox> right now
Nov 05 03:38:54 <Disconnect> orci: yes for posting but no, facebook owners hate google a lot. google it for history, its pretty funny.
Nov 05 03:39:23 <benley> can anybody actually figure out _why_ facebook seems to hate google?
Nov 05 03:39:31 <andyross> They didn't offer to buy them? :)
Nov 05 03:39:32 <hackbod> sodenrox, unfortunately don't expect home screen widgets any time soon; there are a lot of architectural issues to sort out for them.
Nov 05 03:39:34 <languish> hiro, you can install an app from the market or off the web or from your pc via usb with adb, but now with that app in the market, it lets you install off the sd card too
Nov 05 03:39:36 <kslater> oh that's pretty well undersood
Nov 05 03:39:42 <kslater> understood
Nov 05 03:39:48 <Dialekt> can anyone comment on the g1's messaging (specifically text messaging)
Nov 05 03:39:49 <Dialekt> ?
Nov 05 03:39:51 <fcrick> microsoft owns part of facebook?  (doesn't it?)
Nov 05 03:39:59 <benley> Dialekt: text messaging works fine
Nov 05 03:40:01 <languish> Dialekt, comment in what way?
Nov 05 03:40:06 <spikebike> I use the IM a ton, there's little reason to use SMS
Nov 05 03:40:07 <Hiro2> languish: thanks. So I guess I should just be patient and wait for my internet to work?
Nov 05 03:40:12 <Disconnect> facebook vs google is well documented on hte web
Nov 05 03:40:13 <Dialekt> oh i meant..
Nov 05 03:40:33 <languish> Hiro2, why doesn't your internet work?
Nov 05 03:40:43 <spikebike> in fact my computer is sending me election updates every 5 minutes via IM
Nov 05 03:40:54 <languish> spike you perv
Nov 05 03:40:58 <Dialekt> can you sms multiple people? and what's the limit? and can you reply to all of them at the same time? i just found out that you can reply to all recipients at the same time on the iPhone.. i am now spoiled.
Nov 05 03:41:02 <Hiro2> languish: i dont know, tmobile told me it takes like 2-48 hours for it to work
Nov 05 03:41:22 <spikebike> 400 per month for the default plan
Nov 05 03:41:24 <Hiro2> gmail works fine though
Nov 05 03:41:26 <spikebike> never group replied
Nov 05 03:41:26 <Hiro2> so i dont get it
Nov 05 03:41:30 <Disconnect> Hiro2: call 611, tell the robot 'g1' until you get to a smartphone support tech. they'll call you on a landline and then fix your internet.
Nov 05 03:41:38 <spikebike> but I use a gmail -> sms gateway for most iphone users
Nov 05 03:41:42 <spikebike> it charges them but not me
Nov 05 03:41:47 <Hiro2> I don't have a landline :(
Nov 05 03:41:52 <Disconnect> the group will prolly be smartphone/blackberry rather than g1 specific but don't talk to generic support, they're dumb
Nov 05 03:41:53 <languish> Hiro2, gmail ises a different service than the "3g internet"
Nov 05 03:42:01 <Disconnect> no different # to call on?
Nov 05 03:42:11 <Hiro2> no..
Nov 05 03:42:17 <languish> Hiro2, just dial 611 on the phone, say "english" then say "g1" and wait for a rep
Nov 05 03:42:19 <Hiro2> I hate generic support!
Nov 05 03:42:19 <Disconnect> they will end with "reboot the g1" (to force it to look for data service) and thats hard to do while tlaking on it
Nov 05 03:42:32 <Hiro2> lol seriously
Nov 05 03:42:36 <languish> sorry "english, then g1 then "yes"
Nov 05 03:42:37 <Hiro2> ok, ill give them a call now
Nov 05 03:42:43 <Disconnect> heh
Nov 05 03:42:46 <languish> then wait ;)
Nov 05 03:42:56 <spikebike> I really like that the G1 has IM running 24/7
Nov 05 03:43:00 <tmccrary> sometimes I can't believe how awesome I am
Nov 05 03:43:03 <languish> Disconnect they can call you back
Nov 05 03:43:04 <spikebike> so you are reachable over wifi or ceullar
Nov 05 03:43:15 <languish> i had a rep call me back 3 times and even wscedule a call back 3 days later
Nov 05 03:43:21 <mmattice> is UMA on the roadmap?
Nov 05 03:43:28 <Disconnect> yah but its just easier to do it all at once
Nov 05 03:43:33 <spikebike> some devels claim it can be done in software
Nov 05 03:43:34 <languish> yeah agreed
Nov 05 03:43:53 <spikebike> but with IM over cellular and wifi I don't care as much
Nov 05 03:44:03 <spikebike> it would be nice
Nov 05 03:44:21 <languish> I'm not sure if the chip in the g1 is one of the ones annouced as having a UMA capability too. originally it was said no
Nov 05 03:44:26 <Disconnect> whitepages is an awesome (if privacy-invading) app
Nov 05 03:44:50 <mmattice> I get -101dBm in my office, so being able to do UMA would be very nice
Nov 05 03:44:52 <languish> does whitepages list cellular numbers too?
Nov 05 03:45:16 <languish> (it shouldn't, but these days who knows)
Nov 05 03:45:38 <Disconnect> languish: in my testing it doesn't. says 'cell caller'
Nov 05 03:45:52 <languish> nod
Nov 05 03:45:53 <Disconnect> ditto for my (unlisted) home #, just said "private residence" or some such
Nov 05 03:46:28 <languish> yeah, i caught a whitepages service with my cell # on it, and ripped them a new one
Nov 05 03:46:32 <fcrick> home numbers are so 20th century
Nov 05 03:46:35 <languish> they lost $8k to me for it
Nov 05 03:46:59 <languish> and any time I get a call from someone that got my # from their list, I get another $8k
Nov 05 03:48:10 <fcrick> hmm they have some wrong number for me lol
Nov 05 03:48:15 <languish> heh
Nov 05 03:48:15 <fcrick> i wonder where they got that
Nov 05 03:48:27 <languish> sure it's *you* and not someone with the same name?
Nov 05 03:48:34 <fcrick> no one has my name
Nov 05 03:48:43 <fcrick> last one who did died in '04
Nov 05 03:48:52 <languish> lol ok there chiganwutnagsupata imgsahaunagtyretsiops
Nov 05 03:48:59 <fcrick> (and the address matches)
Nov 05 03:49:03 <languish> nod
Nov 05 03:49:54 <Disconnect> 207/141 on abc
Nov 05 03:50:39 <fcrick> ten more minutes..
Nov 05 03:50:42 <Disconnect> and the skins lost their last home game before the election (it was horrible :( ..) which means the incumbent will not win the popular vote.
Nov 05 03:51:01 <spikebike> wow so many of the races are CLOSE
Nov 05 03:51:26 <andyross>  Note that the west coast alone is 72 EVs, or there abouts.  At this point is all over the the counting.
Nov 05 03:51:27 <fcrick> spikebike: obama can loose them all he's still our next president
Nov 05 03:51:42 <ugarit> this is a cool app http://archanet.com/
Nov 05 03:52:10 <Disconnect> what a waste of $5
Nov 05 03:52:49 <spikebike> really?  even with florida and ohio?
Nov 05 03:53:08 <fcrick> ohio is over
Nov 05 03:53:39 <spikebike> half reported and within a few percent?
Nov 05 03:53:41 <Disconnect> what is the result?
Nov 05 03:53:52 <fcrick> ohio has been called for obama by everyone, was called very early on
Nov 05 03:54:04 <fcrick> basically obama wins unless that was a really bad call
Nov 05 03:54:11 <andyross> Ohio's been called by all the major networks.  It's not just how many precincts are in, it's which ones and how well the existing results match the exit polls.
Nov 05 03:55:15 <andyross> Example: VA was skewing hard to McCain after it closed, but because the early precincts were the rural ones in the west.  Once the DC area started coming in, it evened up.
Nov 05 03:55:51 * cworth boggles at "SD card is busy. To access your music, [turn off USB storage]".
Nov 05 03:55:52 <fcrick> it would be tough for mccain to win even with ohio though
Nov 05 03:56:55 <fcrick> with ohio he'd still have to win every other contested state without exception
Nov 05 03:57:02 <fcrick> then he would slip by
Nov 05 03:58:25 <fcrick> yeah and Fox News just called Virginia
Nov 05 03:58:29 <fcrick> (for obama)
Nov 05 03:58:54 <Disconnect> yah but its fox :)
Nov 05 03:59:12 <kslater> as in Fox would call it early for Obama?
Nov 05 03:59:19 <fcrick> they just did
Nov 05 03:59:26 <Disconnect> as in fox is untrustworthy
Nov 05 03:59:29 <fcrick> yeah didn't make sense to me either hehe
Nov 05 03:59:45 <kslater> no, my point is that if you say Fox is right leaning, then they'd wait to assign those votes to Obama
Nov 05 03:59:52 <andyross> Fox just likes to call early.  Realistically it's still too close, but probably leaning Obama.
Nov 05 03:59:55 <fcrick> yeah they are about to call the election
Nov 05 04:00:01 <fcrick> in like 10 seconds
Nov 05 04:00:02 <kslater> or maybe you're just saying they're all over the place
Nov 05 04:00:08 * Disconnect points at andyross; yes, that thing :)
Nov 05 04:00:15 <kslater> Fox calls states early?
Nov 05 04:00:23 <kslater> compared to which of the other networks?
Nov 05 04:00:25 <fcrick> everyone just called Obama winner
Nov 05 04:00:38 <Hiro2> got off the call, says he will disconnect me? to have me reconnected and to have my cell restarted
Nov 05 04:00:48 <Hiro2> and wait an hour more before they could actually start working technically
Nov 05 04:00:53 <andyross> Fox has been calling everything first tonight.  They actually had to walk back their first Ohio call for 17 minutes and re-call it.  Ditto for one of the senate races.
Nov 05 04:01:14 <fcrick> yeah cnn.com just called obama too
Nov 05 04:01:26 <benley> why did all the networks just call it within 10 seconds of each other?
Nov 05 04:01:29 <kslater> that's a switch from the past then
Nov 05 04:01:35 <fcrick> cause west coast polls closed
Nov 05 04:01:37 <Disconnect> cnn just called for obama
Nov 05 04:01:49 <fcrick> it was clear obama would win at about 6:20pm PST
Nov 05 04:02:01 <fcrick> as soon as they called Ohio it was over
Nov 05 04:02:07 <Hiro2> so obama won? end of story?
Nov 05 04:02:14 <fcrick> they just waited until polls closed
Nov 05 04:02:16 <andyross> Pretty much.
Nov 05 04:02:16 <fcrick> yup
Nov 05 04:02:17 <Hiro2> I'm on cnn
Nov 05 04:02:31 <Hiro2> says obama is 297, and 270 to win
Nov 05 04:02:56 <ahaberlacho> Daily Show just called it
Nov 05 04:03:14 <cbeust> so did Fox news
Nov 05 04:03:22 <Disconnect> cnn and cbs also
Nov 05 04:03:41 <Disconnect> abc
Nov 05 04:03:42 <fcrick> awe the daily show was on?
Nov 05 04:03:49 <fcrick> damn i should have watched that
Nov 05 04:03:52 <Disconnect> abc is projecting cali (55 votes) and washington (11)
Nov 05 04:03:54 <cbeust> All day pretty much :)
Nov 05 04:03:58 <tmccrary> damn, white boy got his ass stomped
Nov 05 04:04:05 <andyross> What happens is that polls closed in a bunch of states at the top of the hour, and enough of them were wide enough victories (CA and WA, certainly) to call on the basis of the exit polls alone.
Nov 05 04:04:43 <fcrick> well, also, networks don't like calling the election before the polls close
Nov 05 04:04:54 <fcrick> they snub alaska, though hehe
Nov 05 04:05:29 <andyross> They never call a state before the polls close.  But they don't wait for Alaska or Hawaii when the states they've called are already over 270
Nov 05 04:05:39 <Disconnect> they called hi
Nov 05 04:05:43 <Disconnect> abc did
Nov 05 04:05:52 <fcrick> right, but my point is they could have called the whole election earlier
Nov 05 04:06:21 <andyross> Well, yeah.  But people doing analysis have essentially been calling the election for Obama for three weeks.  Why bother even waiting for the election :)
Nov 05 04:06:40 <Disconnect> someone called it quite a while ago: http://tinyurl.com/2ft75d
Nov 05 04:06:42 <fcrick> well, because of the Ohio polls
Nov 05 04:07:44 <Hiro2> great, i dont think tmobile did anything.... gotta wait 1 more hour i guess
Nov 05 04:07:45 <fcrick> it wasn't clear obama would win Ohio and PA...once it was the election ended
Nov 05 04:08:20 <andyross> Yes, it kinda *was* clear.  PA had tightened significantly in the last week and a half, but both states were 7+ Obama favorites.
Nov 05 04:08:48 <andyross> Ohio and Pennsylvania were never serious candidates for McCain tonight, absent huge error in polling.
Nov 05 04:08:52 <fcrick> well, it was certainly very probable
Nov 05 04:09:16 <fcrick> but huge errors in polling aren't unheard of...
Nov 05 04:09:45 <fcrick> fivethirtyeight.com still gave McCain a %1.1 chance of winning hehe
Nov 05 04:10:10 <andyross> Yeah, but not that huge.  fivethirtyeight.com had a really good model running, with lots of explanation (no source code, though, heh) that took stuff like poll skew into account.  He had McCain at 1.1% win likelihood as of yesterday
Nov 05 04:10:34 <spikebike> 19:58:48 Obama=(36314030, 220) Mccain=(34202155, 135)
Nov 05 04:10:34 <spikebike> Obama won!
Nov 05 04:10:39 <fcrick> i don't think we really disagree here hehe
Nov 05 04:10:49 <spikebike> so sayns my cnn script anywyas
Nov 05 04:11:05 <fcrick> spikebike: yeah everyone has called the election for obama
Nov 05 04:11:36 <fcrick> i'm certain it was mickey mouse and the dallas cowboys voting 100 times in Ohio though
Nov 05 04:14:12 <andyross> It's a borderline landslide.  No state will end up being decisive, so the ACORN "zomg fra0d!" conspiracy theories will die down, happily.
Nov 05 04:15:02 <Disconnect> andyross: see my earlier statements about that.. it'll be next time before that happens (or later) because people got way too interested in it after the last two. gotta let them wander off and get bored.
Nov 05 04:16:34 <Disconnect> (i think its significant that the only recent -corrected- fraud or error or what have you was in the NY primaries, where obvious tampering was able to be fixed solely due to the old mechanical voting machines. and they are under amazing pressure to move to "modern" computerized voting..)
Nov 05 04:19:17 <Disconnect> ...wow. http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/8/78739.html
Nov 05 04:19:42 <Disconnect> (first segment)
Nov 05 04:20:53 <Disconnect> and http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/8/78785.html (touchscreens locked down for investigation - requested by republicans - for problems with the 'straight-party' shortcut voting button)
Nov 05 04:22:25 <gambler> I hope Obama's Inaugeration has some style. Im thinking something like the funeral scene from Zoolander.
Nov 05 04:22:36 <gambler> when Hansel enters
Nov 05 04:22:39 <BHSPitMonkey> andyross, it's a distributive conspiracy in EVERY state!
Nov 05 04:22:52 <BHSPitMonkey> andyross, that's what makes it so hard to detect!  It's brilliant!@
Nov 05 04:22:58 <fcrick> mccain is conceding on cnn btw...
Nov 05 04:23:10 <trigatch4> and msnbc
Nov 05 04:23:12 <trigatch4> and fox
Nov 05 04:23:16 <trigatch4> and every station on the planet
Nov 05 04:23:17 <Disconnect> BHSPitMonkey: the problem is, it doesn't have to be. iirc its something like 45 people who own or control all 5 major evoting companies.
Nov 05 04:23:17 <trigatch4> ;)
Nov 05 04:23:28 <kslater> not every station
Nov 05 04:23:36 <fcrick> i guess its time to stop the politics in here for me nite guys
Nov 05 04:23:45 <Disconnect> trigatch4: yah i'm hoping he pulls some class out and stops rubbing the race card all over his junk.
Nov 05 04:24:26 <Disconnect> "we're so proud that even though he's not as good as the rest of us, he managed to win"..
Nov 05 04:24:38 <trigatch4> eh
Nov 05 04:24:44 <trigatch4> i think its been a pretty good speech
Nov 05 04:25:23 <gambler> i hope im that lucid when im that age
Nov 05 04:25:37 <gambler> i expect most 73 year olds to be worrying about not driving their cars into a crowd of people
Nov 05 04:25:44 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 05 04:25:47 <andyross> He's not *that* old.  If you can't give a speech when you're 72, something's wrong.
Nov 05 04:25:51 <BHSPitMonkey> "...grateful to Sarah Palin, one of the best things to happen to Saturday Night Live..."
Nov 05 04:26:18 <andyross> The irony is that was hands down the *best* speech he's given through the whole campaign.  If this guy was giving that green screen disaster, it might have been a lot closer.
Nov 05 04:26:20 <languish> I wouldn't want mccains supporters
Nov 05 04:27:38 <BHSPitMonkey> andyross, they've probably been working on this speech for months ;)
Nov 05 04:28:01 <Disconnect> yah generally its a much harder speech to write because you just might try again next time around
Nov 05 04:28:19 <gambler> McCain is v funny... http://pokercrack.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=32103
Nov 05 04:30:12 <Disconnect> languish: just cuz they were yelling "kill obama" in the middle of the speech...
Nov 05 04:30:19 * Disconnect had to run it back and double-check
Nov 05 04:30:52 <trigatch4> even Keith Olberman said it was a gracious speech
Nov 05 04:31:33 <poetic_folly|G5> anyone know where Android stores the graphics files?
Nov 05 04:31:37 <poetic_folly|G5> like system graphics?
Nov 05 04:32:20 <spikebike> I know where the boot logo is ;-)
Nov 05 04:32:59 <benley> I couldn't figure out how to encode an alternate boot logo using any existing tools
Nov 05 04:35:16 <poetic_folly|G5> http://modmygphone.com/wiki/index.php/Android_File_List got that together
Nov 05 04:36:01 <docpaul> I have android running on my openmoko... nice validation of the long term potential of the platform
Nov 05 04:36:05 <docpaul> kudos to you all
Nov 05 04:37:44 <spikebike> docpaul how does it work?
Nov 05 04:37:49 <kslater> whoa
Nov 05 04:37:52 <kslater> nice work
Nov 05 04:38:02 <spikebike> got an onscreen keyboard working?
Nov 05 04:38:09 <romainguy_> yeah we received a bunch of patches from the FreeRunner port people
Nov 05 04:38:12 <docpaul> it's actually pretty decent
Nov 05 04:38:18 <romainguy_> they're being reviewed
Nov 05 04:38:25 <docpaul> no wifi, gps, or keyboard
Nov 05 04:38:29 <ugarit> here's music player that claims to play .pls files (shoutcast)
Nov 05 04:38:32 <ugarit> http://ambientmp.sourceforge.net/formats.html
Nov 05 04:38:45 <docpaul> but it's pretty speedy, page transitions are choppy at this point, but that's more implementation than anything
Nov 05 04:39:06 <swetland> doc: don't think double-buffering is wired up yet on the freerunner port
Nov 05 04:39:22 <docpaul> for those of you over at goog:  http://tinyurl.com/paulhasandroid
Nov 05 04:39:25 <swetland> and there was mention of some hw accel features for graphics that might be available
Nov 05 04:39:50 <docpaul> i took a couple of pictures
Nov 05 04:39:52 <swetland> it's great seeing the platform being ported to various things
Nov 05 04:40:14 <DarkriftX> benley, i know mspaint used to edit rle files
Nov 05 04:40:35 <benley> DarkriftX: heh.  I couldn't even open the existing one with gimp or xv or netpbm or ... etc
Nov 05 04:40:48 <romainguy_> docpaul: the resolution is WVGA?
Nov 05 04:40:49 <benley> DarkriftX: I could just write something to convert it though
Nov 05 04:40:53 <DarkriftX> yeah, keep in mind it was almost a microsoft only format back then
Nov 05 04:40:53 <swetland> they're rgb16 rle
Nov 05 04:40:59 <benley> swetland: have you seen it on an eeeeeeeeeeeeee yet?
Nov 05 04:41:01 <swetland> I don't know if *anyone* uses that
Nov 05 04:41:05 <DarkriftX> i had never seen it on anything except ms products before
Nov 05 04:41:09 <docpaul> yes
Nov 05 04:41:19 <swetland> benley: yeah. we have a guy inhouse who has been running it on eee pc for a while
Nov 05 04:41:24 <docpaul> the screen is actually larger resolution than the background
Nov 05 04:41:27 <benley> swetland: heh, nice
Nov 05 04:41:28 <swetland> he's working on getting his patches cleaned up and int the mainline
Nov 05 04:41:30 <docpaul> i think it's 640x480
Nov 05 04:41:44 <DarkriftX> swetland, id hope with less lockdown then g1 has
Nov 05 04:41:46 <romainguy_> 480x640 you mean?
Nov 05 04:41:47 <romainguy_> ok
Nov 05 04:41:50 <benley> swetland: there's still only exactly 1 device that's checked in as eee_701
Nov 05 04:42:04 <romainguy_> what's the dpi resolution on the FreeRunner docpaul?
Nov 05 04:42:35 <unix_infidel> swetland: nice, touch screen mod?
Nov 05 04:42:52 <swetland> unix: not sure. he originally just had keyboard nav.
Nov 05 04:43:15 <unix_infidel> iirc, eee 900 and 1000H series have multitouch synaptics.
Nov 05 04:43:35 <unix_infidel> for which there are drivers on the repo.
Nov 05 04:44:56 <swetland> darkriftx: that depends entirely on oem/carrier/etc -- on a platform you can already load whatever you want on, any lockdown would be your choice not ours ^^
Nov 05 04:45:13 <docpaul> well, the screen is 2.84" diagonal
Nov 05 04:45:20 <docpaul> and the resolution is 640x480
Nov 05 04:45:32 <romainguy_> ok
Nov 05 04:45:45 <docpaul> pretty damn high dpi
Nov 05 04:45:52 <romainguy_> not really :)
Nov 05 04:46:29 <muthu> shit, repo sync fails
Nov 05 04:46:34 <muthu> fatal: Unable to look up android.git.kernel.org (port 9418) (Name or service not known)
Nov 05 04:46:34 <muthu> error: Cannot fetch platform/external/wpa_supplicant
Nov 05 04:46:38 <docpaul> seems like it from this side at least... i can't read the linux boot sequence font unless I use a magnifier
Nov 05 04:46:45 <romainguy_> oh wait
Nov 05 04:46:46 <romainguy_> yes
Nov 05 04:46:49 <romainguy_> I just did the maths
Nov 05 04:46:55 <romainguy_> 285dpi
Nov 05 04:47:40 <andyross> A healthy young adult whose eyes focus well in the near field (i.e. not farsighted) can see detail at about 600dpi.  Useful bit of trivia. :)
Nov 05 04:48:39 <romainguy_> doesn't mean you can read 8px font sizes at 600dpi :p
Nov 05 04:48:55 <andyross> Well, no. :)  But it does explain why printers stopped right around there.
Nov 05 04:49:29 <docpaul> i have pretty excellent vision
Nov 05 04:49:52 <spikebike> the n770/n800/n810 have 800x480 on a similar size screen
Nov 05 04:49:52 <benley> andyross: did they?
Nov 05 04:49:56 <spikebike> it's BEAUTIFUL
Nov 05 04:50:03 <andyross> But do you focus well?  Two different things.  You need good acuity (e.g. cell density in your fovea) *and* the ability to see stuff 5-6cm from your eyes.
Nov 05 04:50:12 <spikebike> makes for a great ebook reader among other things
Nov 05 04:52:14 <poetic_folly|G5> found the system graphics. :D
Nov 05 04:52:37 <sodenrox> what are you guys trying to install
Nov 05 04:53:23 <cmonex> spikebike: i agree beautiful :)
Nov 05 04:53:27 <cmonex> good ebook & browsing.
Nov 05 04:54:38 <cmonex> btw similar size, umm, if 4.13" is similar size.
Nov 05 05:03:46 <DarkriftX> so nothing interesting done with root today?
Nov 05 05:03:54 <DarkriftX> anything good compiled and run on it?
Nov 05 05:04:45 <muthu> President Obama.
Nov 05 05:05:11 <muthu> nice
Nov 05 05:07:35 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye, you around?
Nov 05 05:09:34 <BHSPitMonkey> lol, I thought he just said "blog by blog"
Nov 05 05:11:13 <muthu> is there a 'repo stash' command?
Nov 05 05:14:04 <DarkriftX> wow, died in here
Nov 05 05:15:31 <poetic_folly|G5> what does surfaceflinger do?
Nov 05 05:16:07 <andyross> It's a window server.  Manages bitmaps for display.  I don't know what they were smoking either.
Nov 05 05:16:22 <ahaberlacho> flings surfaces.
Nov 05 05:17:18 <d0nets> shiese i really need a guitar tuner
Nov 05 05:18:31 <spikebike> dark nothing I know of
Nov 05 05:18:40 <spikebike> I kinda expected more noise about it
Nov 05 05:19:37 <romainguy_> andyross: what's wrong with surface flinger?
Nov 05 05:21:38 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - what's up?
Nov 05 05:21:44 <DarkriftX> hows it going :)
Nov 05 05:21:55 <DarkriftX> wondering how your day of compiling/tweaking etc went
Nov 05 05:22:18 <RyeBrye> I didn't do a ton today, I had to get real work done
Nov 05 05:23:45 <RyeBrye> I think things about the whole root thing will die down... The world didn't end and maybe it will be left at that
Nov 05 05:24:46 <holymoo> oh look
Nov 05 05:24:47 <holymoo> neato
Nov 05 05:24:49 <holymoo> hey
Nov 05 05:25:00 <holymoo> can android run on arbitrary linux environments?
Nov 05 05:25:13 <BHSPitMonkey> more or less
Nov 05 05:25:38 <holymoo> huh
Nov 05 05:25:39 <holymoo> neato
Nov 05 05:25:45 <DarkriftX> i know RyeBrye, but i was hoping more would be in the works with it
Nov 05 05:26:00 <holymoo> then theoretically i can run debian on the g1 and run android on top of that if i wanted to
Nov 05 05:26:02 <DarkriftX> forums are dead, not much talk about it other then "how do i do it"
Nov 05 05:26:11 <holymoo> and then move android out of the way for normal linuxy stuff if needed
Nov 05 05:26:28 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye, are you able to get a root shell on the device itself now?
Nov 05 05:26:37 <RyeBrye> holymoo - no, you can't unless you hack your G1
Nov 05 05:26:46 <RyeBrye> holymoo - the G1 by default is locked down
Nov 05 05:27:00 <RyeBrye> holymoo - android is open (by design) the G1 is not
Nov 05 05:27:04 <holymoo> yeah, thats pretty much what id expect to haveto do
Nov 05 05:27:15 <RyeBrye> well, yeah, then in that case the G1 is just like any other phone
Nov 05 05:27:21 <RyeBrye> you can hack it and do your dirty deeds to it
Nov 05 05:27:22 <holymoo> k.
Nov 05 05:27:23 <BHSPitMonkey> want a more hackable phone, get an iPhone :)
Nov 05 05:27:33 <DarkriftX> lol BHSPitMonkey
Nov 05 05:27:35 <RyeBrye> well... I wouldn't go that far :)
Nov 05 05:27:37 <DarkriftX> i disagree
Nov 05 05:27:38 <jasta> erm, linux on the iphone sucks
Nov 05 05:27:39 <holymoo> iphone case sucks
Nov 05 05:27:41 <holymoo> its horrible
Nov 05 05:27:53 <holymoo> the g1 has the best format of any phone for my requirements
Nov 05 05:28:06 <holymoo> the flipside keyboard is exactly what i need
Nov 05 05:28:10 <d0nets> i need an exacto knife so i can get my to quit squeeking
Nov 05 05:28:17 <BHSPitMonkey> yeah, have fun trying to pinch a google map to zoom out, chump
Nov 05 05:29:10 <jasta> BHSPitMonkey: i didnt really like multitouch actually.  it was awkward i felt
Nov 05 05:29:16 <jasta> and i think a lot of people actually agree
Nov 05 05:29:47 <BHSPitMonkey> I don't have an iPhone, but I do own an iPod Touch and wuv it
Nov 05 05:29:52 <vol> 2
Nov 05 05:29:55 <d0nets> jasta i think its faster than the zoom feature in the android browser
Nov 05 05:29:55 <jasta> good for you
Nov 05 05:29:57 <holymoo> i despise anything apple
Nov 05 05:29:58 <RyeBrye> yaffs2 doesn't support partition resizing, right?
Nov 05 05:29:59 <vol> er, fuck.
Nov 05 05:30:02 <holymoo> just on a personal level
Nov 05 05:30:05 <holymoo> its great for normal folks
Nov 05 05:30:10 <d0nets> i hate apple too
Nov 05 05:30:15 <holymoo> i don't like gear that is that purpose driven
Nov 05 05:30:21 <d0nets> i only bought an iphone to use the name
Nov 05 05:30:27 <d0nets> to make 125 to put down on my g1
Nov 05 05:30:40 <holymoo> i'm going to haveto get one so i learn how to manage it, i'm going to have clients that use it
Nov 05 05:30:45 <d0nets> i bought for 199, cancleed for 175, sold for 499
Nov 05 05:30:49 <holymoo> but i can't imagine wasting too much time with it
Nov 05 05:30:57 <vol> ok, how do i emulate ctrl in connectbot
Nov 05 05:30:58 <holymoo> d0nets: lol
Nov 05 05:31:01 <holymoo> wow niiiiice
Nov 05 05:31:20 <d0nets> yea my htc wizard didnt make it until g1 launch
Nov 05 05:31:27 <RyeBrye> I should put tar on so I can make archives and keep permissions and stuff intact
Nov 05 05:31:30 <d0nets> so i was forced into it
Nov 05 05:31:38 <d0nets> for a month or 2
Nov 05 05:31:59 <RyeBrye> I wonder if I backup my /data and then delete my /data and my /cache and recreate them so /cache is only 10 Mb or so if the world would end or not
Nov 05 05:32:02 <holymoo> okay there is a project with a chan here that hacks htc devices
Nov 05 05:32:21 <holymoo> i'll look and see if anyone is hacking away on the g1
Nov 05 05:32:27 <holymoo> thanks for the info guys
Nov 05 05:32:30 <RyeBrye> no problem
Nov 05 05:32:42 <DarkriftX> holymoo, most of them are in here
Nov 05 05:32:49 <holymoo> oh really?
Nov 05 05:32:51 <holymoo> haha!
Nov 05 05:32:55 <DarkriftX> and in #xda-devs
Nov 05 05:33:05 <holymoo> thats it! :) lol forgot the name!
Nov 05 05:33:25 <BHSPitMonkey> and #htc-linux
Nov 05 05:34:05 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye, have you edited init.rc to auto start telnetd yet?
Nov 05 05:34:18 <DarkriftX> also, we need to find out what is killing it
Nov 05 05:34:57 <DarkriftX> damn i wish i could afford one right now, i hate watching and not doing
Nov 05 05:35:06 * DarkriftX puts the wife on a budget
Nov 05 05:35:20 <DarkriftX> the kids can eat twice a day only now!
Nov 05 05:35:24 <d0nets> hrmm darkriftx
Nov 05 05:35:30 <d0nets> walk me through that
Nov 05 05:35:36 <d0nets> how do you edit the files
Nov 05 05:35:42 <d0nets> i tried nano earlier, but im newb with telnet
Nov 05 05:35:54 <DarkriftX> d0nets, prob have to copy it to sd, edit on computer and copy back
Nov 05 05:35:58 <DarkriftX> you on linux or win?
Nov 05 05:36:04 <d0nets> nix
Nov 05 05:36:06 <DarkriftX> good
Nov 05 05:36:11 <DarkriftX> do you have nano on the g1?
Nov 05 05:36:19 <d0nets> no
Nov 05 05:36:22 <DarkriftX> ok
Nov 05 05:36:23 <d0nets> i dont think
Nov 05 05:36:29 <d0nets> thats what i tried
Nov 05 05:36:36 <DarkriftX> copy init.rc to sd, edit on computer then copy back
Nov 05 05:36:41 <DarkriftX> that script is ran during boto
Nov 05 05:36:41 <d0nets> i tried telneting in via terminal from desktop
Nov 05 05:36:42 <DarkriftX> boot*
Nov 05 05:36:44 <d0nets> and nano'n
Nov 05 05:36:45 <RyeBrye> anyone know what is in /dev/mtdblock2?
Nov 05 05:36:54 <vol> bleh
Nov 05 05:36:58 <RyeBrye> it's not mounted by default - is that the recovery partition?
Nov 05 05:36:59 <DarkriftX> oooh, RyeBrye we need grep!
Nov 05 05:37:07 <RyeBrye> isn't grep in busybox?
Nov 05 05:37:07 <DarkriftX> put that on the list lol
Nov 05 05:37:13 <d0nets> ok so i can add things like instant messenger?
Nov 05 05:37:14 <vol> anyone else using connectbot?
Nov 05 05:37:14 <DarkriftX> it didnt work when i tried in emu
Nov 05 05:37:21 <DarkriftX> and you got busybox on the g1?
Nov 05 05:37:23 <d0nets> i use it, but only on efnet atm
Nov 05 05:37:28 <d0nets> this chan is too busy
Nov 05 05:37:30 <RyeBrye> this guy did
Nov 05 05:37:31 <RyeBrye> http://www.billrocks.org/android_libs/
Nov 05 05:37:56 <RyeBrye> I think bash is a bit heavy for a phone, but he has bash too
Nov 05 05:38:19 <DarkriftX> oooh, ssdh
Nov 05 05:38:24 <DarkriftX> have you tried any of those?
Nov 05 05:38:30 <DarkriftX> sshd*
Nov 05 05:38:32 <d0nets> wtf
Nov 05 05:38:41 <d0nets> ssh server ?
Nov 05 05:38:44 <DarkriftX> yeah
Nov 05 05:38:49 <DarkriftX> http://www.billrocks.org/android_libs/bin/
Nov 05 05:39:15 <d0nets> so how do you instal these
Nov 05 05:39:17 <RyeBrye> I haven't tried those yet
Nov 05 05:39:23 <RyeBrye> copy them over to a bin directory and run them?
Nov 05 05:39:55 <DarkriftX> we need wget too lol
Nov 05 05:39:57 <DarkriftX> but htats in busybox
Nov 05 05:40:55 <ionstorm> are those statically built binaries?
Nov 05 05:41:12 <RyeBrye> I think so
Nov 05 05:41:26 <RyeBrye> I don't use telnetd anymore on mine... or the pterminal... I just put su on mine and I use the adb shell now
Nov 05 05:41:29 <RyeBrye> it's a lot easier
Nov 05 05:42:03 <ionstorm> adb shell?
Nov 05 05:42:23 <d0nets> yea, adb shell?
Nov 05 05:42:26 <ionstorm> debug bridge
Nov 05 05:42:36 <ionstorm> adb=android device bridge
Nov 05 05:42:51 <d0nets> oh i know that
Nov 05 05:42:55 <d0nets> so just telnet?
Nov 05 05:43:04 <d0nets> oh wait
Nov 05 05:43:14 <d0nets> nope, still confused
Nov 05 05:43:15 <d0nets> haha
Nov 05 05:46:46 <DarkriftX> how the hell do you symlink on this thing/
Nov 05 05:47:05 <ionstorm> dont u need the sdk installed to use adb
Nov 05 05:47:38 <ionstorm> ah its in the sdk in tools/
Nov 05 05:48:02 <d0nets> im just gonna install sshd and add it to connectbot lol
Nov 05 05:48:05 <RyeBrye> you have to enable the debugging stuff on the device
Nov 05 05:48:42 <RyeBrye> dropbear is a lot better fit for an embedded device than openssh
Nov 05 05:48:57 <ionstorm> kyle@ion:~/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1/tools$ sudo ./adb shell
Nov 05 05:48:57 <ionstorm> error: device not found
Nov 05 05:49:06 <ionstorm> lol guess i gotta specify a device
Nov 05 05:49:19 <RyeBrye> no, you don't need to
Nov 05 05:49:20 <RyeBrye> if you only have one
Nov 05 05:49:26 <ionstorm> hmm wtf
Nov 05 05:49:26 <RyeBrye> you DO have to have the debugging turned on in the device
Nov 05 05:49:33 <ionstorm> its on
Nov 05 05:49:38 <ionstorm> usb debug right?
Nov 05 05:49:54 <RyeBrye> yeah
Nov 05 05:49:54 <RyeBrye> ./adb devices
Nov 05 05:49:57 <RyeBrye> what does that return?
Nov 05 05:50:04 <RyeBrye> you should see your phone
Nov 05 05:50:09 <DarkriftX> nice, busybox has awk and grep
Nov 05 05:50:13 <RyeBrye> but if you have more than one, I guess you have to specify a device
Nov 05 05:50:14 <DarkriftX> will be useful to rewrite stuff
Nov 05 05:50:25 <ionstorm> it doesnt list my device
Nov 05 05:50:37 <RyeBrye> try unplugging it and plugging it back in
Nov 05 05:50:41 <ionstorm> k
Nov 05 05:50:50 <RyeBrye> it shouldn't matter if the SD card is mounted or not
Nov 05 05:51:19 <ionstorm> wtf im running ubuntu intrepid
Nov 05 05:51:26 <d0nets> darkrifx have you installed the sshd?
Nov 05 05:51:38 <d0nets> that could be why
Nov 05 05:52:32 <DarkriftX> not yet
Nov 05 05:54:02 <d0nets> so do i put them anywhere on my sd card?
Nov 05 05:54:23 <RyeBrye> you can symlink to busybox instead of the toolbox that google installs by default for things like ls and the like, right?
Nov 05 05:54:56 <DarkriftX> d0nets, download them (if they get saved as .asc files rename them to have no extension) and then copy them to /system/bin
Nov 05 05:55:07 <DarkriftX> after that, chmod 4755 busybox
Nov 05 05:55:21 <DarkriftX> then do busybox cp -s busybox cp
Nov 05 05:55:30 <DarkriftX> that will give you the cp command which makes life easier
Nov 05 05:55:49 <d0nets> how do i copy busybox to system/bin
Nov 05 05:56:01 <DarkriftX> mv busybox /system/bin/busybox
Nov 05 05:56:06 <d0nets> k
Nov 05 05:56:17 <DarkriftX> make sure you remounted your system first
Nov 05 05:56:19 <d0nets> does * work
Nov 05 05:56:32 <DarkriftX> erm, yeah
Nov 05 05:56:34 <DarkriftX> but be careful
Nov 05 05:56:48 <DarkriftX> check ls first lol
Nov 05 05:56:56 <DarkriftX> did you remount already?
Nov 05 05:56:59 <d0nets> do i do that in pterminal
Nov 05 05:57:02 <d0nets> or on my pc
Nov 05 05:57:11 <d0nets> via telnet
Nov 05 05:57:11 <DarkriftX> you do that in the telnet session
Nov 05 05:57:16 <d0nets> ok
Nov 05 05:57:22 <DarkriftX> mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system
Nov 05 05:57:33 <DarkriftX> that remounts your /ssystem folder with write permissions
Nov 05 05:57:49 <d0nets> thats intense
Nov 05 05:57:50 <d0nets> one sec
Nov 05 05:58:05 <DarkriftX> ooooh
Nov 05 05:58:13 <DarkriftX> we need mc on this thing
Nov 05 05:58:19 <DarkriftX> screw gui file managers!
Nov 05 05:58:51 <DarkriftX> someone who has some time, compile midnight commander for g1!!
Nov 05 05:59:16 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye, for commands that are not used by system, im sure you can, but other stuff id leave
Nov 05 05:59:40 <DarkriftX> for example i wouldnt change chmod to busybox, they might have different options and init.rc could fail because of it
Nov 05 06:00:02 <RyeBrye> good point
Nov 05 06:00:20 <DarkriftX> so i wouldnt change any synmlinks except for simple stuff (ls maybe)
Nov 05 06:00:43 <ionstorm> ah adb works now
Nov 05 06:01:03 <DarkriftX> has anyone tried connectbot on localhost?
Nov 05 06:01:11 <DarkriftX> after rooting?
Nov 05 06:01:19 <ionstorm> adb/su rocks
Nov 05 06:01:28 <ionstorm> im about to compile aircrackng
Nov 05 06:01:37 <DarkriftX> when your done, do mc for us :)
Nov 05 06:01:48 <DarkriftX> its a great filemanager
Nov 05 06:02:40 <DarkriftX> i wish the damned adb supported up/down for prev command :@
Nov 05 06:03:37 <ionstorm> just copy sh to su and su
Nov 05 06:03:40 <ionstorm> sh has up/down
Nov 05 06:03:59 <DarkriftX> # ^[[A^[[B
Nov 05 06:04:03 <DarkriftX> thats what i get with up/down
Nov 05 06:04:29 <DarkriftX> oooh, busybox sh worked
Nov 05 06:04:56 <ionstorm> whats the point of busybox really
Nov 05 06:05:11 <DarkriftX> gives you tons more commands
Nov 05 06:05:15 <DarkriftX> hundreds
Nov 05 06:05:17 <RyeBrye> like... cp
Nov 05 06:05:21 <spikebike> yeah
Nov 05 06:05:29 <spikebike> extremely efficienct on storage
Nov 05 06:05:30 <DarkriftX> tar, cp, wget, su
Nov 05 06:05:36 <RyeBrye> oh, it has tar? cool
Nov 05 06:05:38 <ionstorm> why not just compile those for arm
Nov 05 06:05:39 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 05 06:05:41 <DarkriftX> its a shitty tar
Nov 05 06:05:45 <RyeBrye> ionstorm - it is compiled for arm
Nov 05 06:05:51 <DarkriftX> ionstorm, this is ONE binary that does all of them
Nov 05 06:05:55 <ionstorm> oh
Nov 05 06:05:59 <ionstorm> lol
Nov 05 06:06:00 <DarkriftX> and its 1.5mb (not bad for prob 300 commands)
Nov 05 06:06:10 <DarkriftX> for example, busybox cp = cp
Nov 05 06:06:16 <ionstorm> wrd
Nov 05 06:06:20 <DarkriftX> so symlink cp to busybox and your set
Nov 05 06:06:28 <DarkriftX> im mass linking files now
Nov 05 06:06:35 <DarkriftX> we need a script for that lol
Nov 05 06:06:47 <RyeBrye> init.rc?
Nov 05 06:06:51 <RyeBrye> oh wit
Nov 05 06:06:55 <RyeBrye> that would be dumb :)
Nov 05 06:06:57 <DarkriftX> i could write one that uses grep to read "busybox" output and symlink all ones not found to busybox
Nov 05 06:07:00 <RyeBrye> I was thinking te update script
Nov 05 06:07:03 <DarkriftX> would take forever lol
Nov 05 06:07:09 <DarkriftX> touch :)
Nov 05 06:07:12 <ionstorm> so all u gotta do is cp busybox to /system/bin eh?
Nov 05 06:07:19 <ionstorm> no depends needed?
Nov 05 06:07:22 <DarkriftX> nope
Nov 05 06:07:26 <DarkriftX> and its mv
Nov 05 06:07:29 <ionstorm> wrd
Nov 05 06:07:34 <RyeBrye> no... you need to dd if=/sdcard/busybox /system/bin/busybox
Nov 05 06:07:36 <DarkriftX> mv busybox /system/bin/busybox
Nov 05 06:07:45 <RyeBrye> err of=/system/bin/busybox
Nov 05 06:07:47 <RyeBrye> or mv works too
Nov 05 06:07:52 <ionstorm> k
Nov 05 06:08:07 <DarkriftX> once its there, chmod 4755 busybox
Nov 05 06:08:21 <DarkriftX> then: busybox cp -s busybox cp
Nov 05 06:08:26 <DarkriftX> that will give you cp command :)
Nov 05 06:08:39 <ionstorm> dope
Nov 05 06:08:48 <ionstorm> thnx
Nov 05 06:09:16 <d0nets> ok fuck
Nov 05 06:09:17 <d0nets> start over
Nov 05 06:09:21 <d0nets> my xserver crashed
Nov 05 06:09:30 <DarkriftX> :S
Nov 05 06:09:35 <d0nets> jk
Nov 05 06:09:38 <d0nets> un momento
Nov 05 06:09:44 <DarkriftX> imma make a post about it on my site, gimme 5 mins
Nov 05 06:09:46 <d0nets> i have it on the card lemme start telnetd
Nov 05 06:11:55 <d0nets> hrmm
Nov 05 06:11:58 <ionstorm> cat busybox >/system/bin/busybox works, mv doesnt
Nov 05 06:12:09 <d0nets> it seams like i can only run it once
Nov 05 06:12:11 <d0nets> then ihave to restart
Nov 05 06:12:19 <d0nets> when i ps, it doesnt show up other than the first time
Nov 05 06:14:38 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - you could probably just have it iterate over everything busybox does and do an 'ln -s busybox {}' and have it just not force the ones that it doesn't rpovide
Nov 05 06:14:46 <RyeBrye> ... although I just realized that xargs probably isn't there
Nov 05 06:14:55 <RyeBrye> dur
Nov 05 06:15:16 <d0nets> what was the mound command again
Nov 05 06:15:24 <d0nets> to type first in telnet
Nov 05 06:15:30 <d0nets> mount*
Nov 05 06:16:34 <DarkriftX> yeah, havent done sh scripting in a year :s
Nov 05 06:16:37 <DarkriftX> and wasnt that good back then lol
Nov 05 06:16:52 <DarkriftX> i still consider myself a linux n00b
Nov 05 06:16:57 <d0nets> me too
Nov 05 06:16:59 <DarkriftX> i jsut prefer command line
Nov 05 06:18:45 <RyeBrye> I got a list of lines you can run to handle all the symlinks
Nov 05 06:18:57 <BHSPitMonkey> http://www.androidworld.com/prod01.htm
Nov 05 06:20:30 <RyeBrye> http://pastebin.com/f4db7c625
Nov 05 06:21:00 <RyeBrye> since it just uses -s and not -sf, it will just print a "file exists" if the link already exists to toolbox
Nov 05 06:21:15 <RyeBrye> oh wait
Nov 05 06:21:16 <RyeBrye> let me fix it
Nov 05 06:21:17 <RyeBrye> one sec
Nov 05 06:22:13 <d0nets> wtf is all of that?
Nov 05 06:22:34 <RyeBrye> I've got to fix it... problem with line breaks
Nov 05 06:24:35 <DarkriftX> d0nets, opinions: http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?mode=post&f=15&sid=d1159dbeed71dffd6b44970e64d65f75&rb_v=posting
Nov 05 06:24:42 <DarkriftX> erm, wait
Nov 05 06:24:46 <RyeBrye> http://pastebin.com/f541b396e
Nov 05 06:25:04 <RyeBrye> DarkritfX - copy and paste... and all of busybox should be symlinked withotu overwriting any of the toolbox
Nov 05 06:25:07 <DarkriftX> http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=15&t=153&rb_v=viewtopic <--- tell me if this works for you d0nets or anyone else trying to do this
Nov 05 06:26:34 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye, that can all be done with one line
Nov 05 06:26:36 <DarkriftX> gimme a few
Nov 05 06:27:56 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - no shit... look at what I pastebined
Nov 05 06:28:03 <DarkriftX> i did
Nov 05 06:28:04 <RyeBrye> use the ADB shell
Nov 05 06:28:09 <RyeBrye> it worked for me
Nov 05 06:28:17 <DarkriftX> its like 50 lines though, right?
Nov 05 06:28:27 <RyeBrye> Oh... I thought you said "can't"
Nov 05 06:28:28 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 05 06:28:31 <DarkriftX> no, it can
Nov 05 06:28:33 <DarkriftX> im making it
Nov 05 06:28:34 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it can
Nov 05 06:28:35 <DarkriftX> gimme a few
Nov 05 06:28:39 <RyeBrye> since all I did was use grep to build it
Nov 05 06:29:32 <DarkriftX> what command did you use to build it?
Nov 05 06:30:11 <RyeBrye> well... I did it in a text editor
Nov 05 06:30:21 <RyeBrye> and just used regular expressions
Nov 05 06:30:34 <RyeBrye> ([A-Za-z_1-9\-\.]+), was the search string
Nov 05 06:30:58 <RyeBrye> and ln -s /system/bin/busybox /system/bin/$1\n was the replace string - then I did some cleanup...
Nov 05 06:31:14 <d0nets> i cant dl it in my browser darkrifk
Nov 05 06:31:21 <d0nets> it says elf and a bunch of crazy characters
Nov 05 06:31:32 <DarkriftX> long press, save as
Nov 05 06:32:17 <d0nets> shiese i will do it in the morning
Nov 05 06:32:39 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 05 06:32:39 <d0nets> i didnt realize what time it was, i got class in a few
Nov 05 06:33:10 <RyeBrye> I guess a better search string would be: ([A-Za-z_1-9\-\.]+)(,|\W)
Nov 05 06:33:32 <RyeBrye> since that first one didn't get the zcip at the end
Nov 05 06:33:56 <RyeBrye> well.. I guess if you want tobe all technical and make it even shorter ([\w\d\-\.]+)(,|\W)
Nov 05 06:34:51 <RyeBrye> oh wait... that one doesn't work... just stick wiht this one: ([A-Za-z_1-9\-\.]+)(,|\W)
Nov 05 06:35:36 <RyeBrye> interesting, wifi is using /data for sockets
Nov 05 06:36:20 * RyeBrye hearts busybox
Nov 05 06:36:28 <RyeBrye> you get uname, df, tar... etc
Nov 05 06:38:54 <DarkriftX> oh fuck android
Nov 05 06:39:10 <DarkriftX> i just spent 45 minutes setting symlinks and other shit and reboot killed it all
Nov 05 06:40:01 <DarkriftX> df was already there
Nov 05 06:41:38 <neerhaj> what is releasekey.x509 for ?
Nov 05 06:42:45 <neerhaj> its in /system/etc/security.
Nov 05 06:43:14 <RyeBrye> you don't have a releasekey.pk8 in there do you :)
Nov 05 06:43:33 <neerhaj> nope
Nov 05 06:43:41 <RyeBrye> it's just a public key
Nov 05 06:43:51 <RyeBrye> used to verify stuff
Nov 05 06:44:25 <neerhaj> so if i change the public key ? anything fruitful i could do ?
Nov 05 06:44:33 <RyeBrye> nope
Nov 05 06:44:47 <RyeBrye> because the recovery tool uses it's own compiled-in keys to check
Nov 05 06:45:01 <RyeBrye> are you on RC19?
Nov 05 06:45:04 <RyeBrye> I don't see that file on mine
Nov 05 06:45:07 <neerhaj> rc29
Nov 05 06:45:25 <cmonex> DarkriftX: so you got a g1?
Nov 05 06:45:46 <neerhaj> hmm signed by HTC
Nov 05 06:46:00 <RyeBrye> yeah, HTC signs the updates
Nov 05 06:46:03 <RyeBrye> did you get your update OTA?
Nov 05 06:46:17 <neerhaj> nope. through sd card
Nov 05 06:46:22 <RyeBrye> weird
Nov 05 06:46:26 <RyeBrye>  you have busy box on there?
Nov 05 06:47:02 <neerhaj> no. im just starting to poke around. i wanted to disable the security checks first.
Nov 05 06:47:13 <RyeBrye> I think moving the key helps
Nov 05 06:48:40 <DarkriftX> no cmonex still dont have one
Nov 05 06:48:46 <DarkriftX> using the emulator
Nov 05 06:49:07 <spikebike> moving otacerts.zip if you check to see if there is an ota update you just get a ssl error
Nov 05 06:49:24 <RyeBrye> spikebike - did you put your cacerts.bk back?
Nov 05 06:49:29 <RyeBrye> check and see if you are still getting errors
Nov 05 06:49:45 <RyeBrye> I saw mine is working again but the otacerts is moved
Nov 05 06:49:50 <RyeBrye> I think the cacerts it what controls it
Nov 05 06:50:00 <spikebike> oh umm, will check
Nov 05 06:50:12 <spikebike> IM failed without cacerts
Nov 05 06:50:16 <invain> hello everyone...
Nov 05 06:50:19 <spikebike> and I think all ssl ties
Nov 05 06:50:24 <RyeBrye> yeah
Nov 05 06:50:27 <invain> any one help me about android porting.
Nov 05 06:50:37 <invain> when i run "chroot /mnt /init" command,
Nov 05 06:50:39 <RyeBrye> I think all of their stuff goes through android.clients.google.com does it not?
Nov 05 06:50:40 <invain> i meet below
Nov 05 06:50:43 <invain> error messages.
Nov 05 06:50:45 <invain> write(7, "\21", 1)                      = 1
Nov 05 06:50:45 <invain> sigreturn()                             = ? (mask now [])
Nov 05 06:50:45 <invain> poll([{fd=4, events=POLLIN}, {fd=6, events=POLLIN}, {fd=8, events=POLLIN, reven1
Nov 05 06:50:45 <invain> read(8, "\21", 92)                      = 1
Nov 05 06:50:45 <invain> wait4(-1, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 0}], WNOHANG, NULL) = 1891
Nov 05 06:50:46 <invain> kill(-1891, SIGKILL)                    = -1 ESRCH (No such process)
Nov 05 06:50:48 <invain> unlink("/dev/socket/zygote")            = 0
Nov 05 06:50:50 <invain> clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {132, 221169366}) = 0
Nov 05 06:50:52 <invain> open("/sys/android_power/request_state", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_LARGEFILE, 0622) = 9
Nov 05 06:50:54 <invain> write(9, "wake", 4)                     = 4
Nov 05 06:50:56 <DarkriftX> wtf dude
Nov 05 06:50:58 <invain> close(9)                                = 0
Nov 05 06:51:00 <invain> futex(0x400033a0, FUTEX_WAKE, 2147483647) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:02 <invain> futex(0x40001004, FUTEX_WAKE, 2147483647) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:04 <invain> wait4(-1, 0xbe828b70, WNOHANG, NULL)    = 0
Nov 05 06:51:04 <DarkriftX> pastebin your shit
Nov 05 06:51:06 <invain> clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {132, 223050633}) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:06 <RyeBrye> USE FUCKING PASTEBIN
Nov 05 06:51:08 <invain> clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {132, 223263550}) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:10 <invain> poll([{fd=4, events=POLLIN}, {fd=6, events=POLLIN}, {fd=8, events=POLLIN}], 3, 0
Nov 05 06:51:12 <invain> clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {135, 230595650}) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:14 <invain> stat64("/system/bin/app_process", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0777, st_size=5564, ...}) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:16 <invain> fork()                                  = 1906
Nov 05 06:51:18 <invain> clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {135, 250980066}) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:19 <DarkriftX> auto ignore (done manually)
Nov 05 06:51:20 <invain> futex(0x400033a0, FUTEX_WAKE, 2147483647) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:22 <invain> futex(0x40001004, FUTEX_WAKE, 2147483647) = 0
Nov 05 06:51:24 <RyeBrye>  /ignore invain
Nov 05 06:51:24 <invain> poll([{fd=4, events=POLLIN}, {fd=6, events=POLLIN}, {fd=8, events=POLLIN}], 3, )
Nov 05 06:51:25 <RyeBrye> woops
Nov 05 06:51:28 <invain> --- SIGCHLD (Child exited) @ 0 (0) ---
Nov 05 06:51:30 <invain> write(7, "\21", 1)                      = 1
Nov 05 06:51:32 <invain> How can I figure out reason of above error messages?
Nov 05 06:51:42 <Adamant> first, use a pastebin
Nov 05 06:52:06 <spikebike> oh interesting it's downloading
Nov 05 06:52:12 <RyeBrye> spikebike - huh?
Nov 05 06:52:17 <RyeBrye> it's downloading or it's checking in?
Nov 05 06:52:24 <RyeBrye> you better stop that!
Nov 05 06:52:25 <spikebike> it wants to upgrade to signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq-TC4-RC19+$C28.zip
Nov 05 06:52:31 <spikebike> it's downloading
Nov 05 06:52:34 <DarkriftX> erm
Nov 05 06:52:36 <DarkriftX> id cancel
Nov 05 06:52:37 <spikebike> it wants to upgrade to signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq-TC4-RC19+RC28.zip
Nov 05 06:52:48 <spikebike> is that the standard RC28 upgrade?
Nov 05 06:52:53 <RyeBrye> probably
Nov 05 06:52:53 <DarkriftX> maybe
Nov 05 06:52:57 <RyeBrye> but...
Nov 05 06:52:58 <DarkriftX> or maybe they want you to think that lol
Nov 05 06:53:01 <RyeBrye> I wonder who that process runs as
Nov 05 06:53:04 <DarkriftX> maybe they edited it
Nov 05 06:53:26 <spikebike> I can wait and copy it off and md5sum
Nov 05 06:53:33 <spikebike> anyone have that file?
Nov 05 06:53:37 <RyeBrye> yeah
Nov 05 06:53:38 <DarkriftX> yes
Nov 05 06:53:45 <DarkriftX> but ive seen 4x checksums for it :S
Nov 05 06:53:47 <spikebike> post a sha256?
Nov 05 06:53:51 <neerhaj> i did that upgrade through sd card
Nov 05 06:53:55 <spikebike> md5 or related
Nov 05 06:54:18 <RyeBrye> spikebike - are you on RC29 already?
Nov 05 06:54:25 <DarkriftX> b1d8201ca431352a68cb15157aed998f  /home/darkrift/Desktop/signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq.TC4-RC19+RC28.zip
Nov 05 06:54:28 <spikebike> no RC19
Nov 05 06:54:31 <RyeBrye> ok
Nov 05 06:54:38 <spikebike> dark and that still has the telnet hole?
Nov 05 06:54:44 <DarkriftX> should
Nov 05 06:54:45 <RyeBrye> yeah
Nov 05 06:54:47 <DarkriftX> thats the one i offer on my site
Nov 05 06:54:55 <neerhaj> it does. i can confirm
Nov 05 06:55:04 <spikebike> thanks, I'll checksum when it's down
Nov 05 06:55:07 <DarkriftX> k
Nov 05 06:55:14 <spikebike> unless it deletes it
Nov 05 06:55:17 <DarkriftX> someone mail me a G1 lol
Nov 05 06:56:00 <spikebike> is it actually RC28 or actually RC29?
Nov 05 06:56:08 <DarkriftX> 29
Nov 05 06:56:12 <DarkriftX> named oddly though
Nov 05 06:56:43 <DarkriftX> be nice to find a way to drop android to a shell and bring it back up
Nov 05 06:56:52 <DarkriftX> s/shell/root shell/
Nov 05 06:56:52 <infobot> DarkriftX meant: be nice to find a way to drop android to a root shell and bring it back up
Nov 05 06:57:00 <DarkriftX> ty infobot
Nov 05 06:57:07 <spikebike> ?
Nov 05 06:57:18 <spikebike> you mean like er the telnet hole?
Nov 05 06:57:19 <DarkriftX> like linux, kill x, get shell, startx, get x :)
Nov 05 06:57:26 <DarkriftX> after doing that
Nov 05 06:57:34 <spikebike> ugh this will take awhile
Nov 05 06:57:38 <spikebike> 3.5MB so far
Nov 05 06:57:42 <DarkriftX> 44mb total
Nov 05 06:57:49 <DarkriftX> 44.38 i think
Nov 05 06:59:05 <neerhaj> in the manifest of every apk theres a sha , is that sha calculated just by name and size or even the actual contents of the files ?
Nov 05 06:59:22 <spikebike> well otacerts.zip isn't there, I wonder if it will just delete it
Nov 05 06:59:52 <RyeBrye> neerhaj - the contents
Nov 05 07:00:19 <RyeBrye> spikebike - it will be interesting to see how it handles it
Nov 05 07:00:32 <RyeBrye> I wonder, honestly, wtf otacerts is used for
Nov 05 07:00:43 <RyeBrye> since the recovery flasher has the keys it checks for compiled into it
Nov 05 07:00:46 <neerhaj> can we regenerate that sha or is it connected to the cert.sf and cert.rsa ?
Nov 05 07:01:03 <RyeBrye> neerhaj - they are all connected
Nov 05 07:01:12 <RyeBrye> neerhaj - you change one thing you break the validity of the signature
Nov 05 07:01:20 <RyeBrye> neerhaj - that's the point of the signature
Nov 05 07:01:33 <RyeBrye> spikerbike - is it doing it over EDGE or somethign?
Nov 05 07:03:09 <spikebike> nice
Nov 05 07:03:10 <DarkriftX> FUCK
Nov 05 07:03:17 <RyeBrye> ?
Nov 05 07:03:22 <DarkriftX> when i get stuck in something, ctrl+c kills the emu
Nov 05 07:03:25 <DarkriftX> and undoes all my changes
Nov 05 07:03:27 <DarkriftX> pissing me off
Nov 05 07:03:32 <spikebike> it just switched over to wifi it's at 14MB
Nov 05 07:03:51 <RyeBrye> spikebike - can you see what process is doing the update and who owns it?
Nov 05 07:03:54 <RyeBrye> in ps?
Nov 05 07:03:58 <neerhaj> so what file checks for these cert.rsa signs in all apk ?  cacerts.bks ?
Nov 05 07:04:12 <spikebike> sure let me pull up the terminal
Nov 05 07:04:31 <RyeBrye> neerhaj - it's part of the security model. I have nfi what does the checking on the apks
Nov 05 07:05:17 <RyeBrye> spikebike - if it's a non-root process dumping it to /cache - I wonder if writing a file to /cache as root that a non-root process woudl be unable to remove would cause it to run out of space and choke
Nov 05 07:05:47 <RyeBrye> just a 20-megs of 0's woudl probably do the trick on it
Nov 05 07:06:30 <RyeBrye> Or just strategically removing the stupid checker alltogether might work too
Nov 05 07:07:00 <spikebike> it's in /cache owned by app_7
Nov 05 07:07:05 <RyeBrye> cool
Nov 05 07:07:27 <spikebike> app_7 is android.process.media
Nov 05 07:07:32 <RyeBrye> if it asks you to reboot once it downloads, it's going to apply it
Nov 05 07:07:49 <RyeBrye> because once it reboots it will be in apply mode and the recovery will not need otacerts to verify it
Nov 05 07:07:56 <spikebike> k
Nov 05 07:08:05 <spikebike> well it sounds safe to apply
Nov 05 07:08:24 <RyeBrye> yeah, but since your number is up you shuodl be able to test out ways to make sure it wont download the updates
Nov 05 07:08:26 <spikebike> is there a md5 or sha on the g1?
Nov 05 07:08:34 <RyeBrye> in busybox there is
Nov 05 07:08:50 <spikebike> is that is what is in /system/bin?
Nov 05 07:09:14 <spikebike> ah
Nov 05 07:09:29 <spikebike> download status: complete(200): 46830260 of 46830260 bytes
Nov 05 07:09:53 <RyeBrye> the udpate will wipe you your /system btw
Nov 05 07:09:55 <spikebike> check-in status: fota_failure java.io.filenotfoundexception: /system/etc/security/otacerts.zip
Nov 05 07:10:01 <RyeBrye> NICE :)
Nov 05 07:10:16 * RyeBrye does the updates-shouldn't-work dance
Nov 05 07:10:26 <spikebike> so I see no reason to not apply it
Nov 05 07:10:32 <RyeBrye> no, you shuold be able to
Nov 05 07:10:39 <RyeBrye> you can just mv it to /sdcard and apply from there
Nov 05 07:11:04 <RyeBrye> Although I wonder
Nov 05 07:11:14 <RyeBrye> are there any other files it wrote in /cache?
Nov 05 07:12:03 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye, what would a good regex be to remove a comma?
Nov 05 07:12:36 <DarkriftX> i suck at regex :(
Nov 05 07:12:44 <RyeBrye> in the list of busybox stuff?
Nov 05 07:12:52 <DarkriftX> from $i
Nov 05 07:13:08 <DarkriftX> each $i has a comma
Nov 05 07:13:26 <RyeBrye> I think of it in terms o fwhat I want to find, not what I don't want to find
Nov 05 07:13:31 <RyeBrye> do they all END with a comma?
Nov 05 07:13:35 <RyeBrye> and you want everything before the comma?
Nov 05 07:13:57 <spikebike> there's a downloadfile.apk
Nov 05 07:14:03 <spikebike> and a downloadfile-1.apk
Nov 05 07:14:07 <DarkriftX> yes
Nov 05 07:14:16 <spikebike> and 10 downloadfile-1.jpeg up to 1
Nov 05 07:14:18 <spikebike> up to 10
Nov 05 07:14:34 <RyeBrye> spikebike - that's just your porn
Nov 05 07:14:40 <RyeBrye> (.*), would find everthing up to a comma
Nov 05 07:14:58 <RyeBrye> but that will only owrk on one line - 'cause it's greedy
Nov 05 07:15:03 <RyeBrye> replace with $1
Nov 05 07:15:22 <spikebike> downloading again
Nov 05 07:15:24 <spikebike> 8-(
Nov 05 07:15:28 <RyeBrye> LOL
Nov 05 07:15:35 <RyeBrye> It just doesn't give up
Nov 05 07:15:41 <spikebike> wifi is fast 8MB
Nov 05 07:16:02 <RyeBrye> I wonder if there is a way to get that thing to just stop checking
Nov 05 07:16:33 <spikebike> could just delete that cert
Nov 05 07:16:40 <RyeBrye> the bks one?
Nov 05 07:16:44 <RyeBrye> I don't thinkt hat's a good idea
Nov 05 07:16:47 <spikebike> if you get rid of cacerts.bks or whatever it doesn't check
Nov 05 07:16:55 <RyeBrye> well, yeah, but your SSL wont work either
Nov 05 07:16:56 <spikebike> well if you decode it you could delete the particular key
Nov 05 07:17:00 <RyeBrye> Yeah
Nov 05 07:17:03 <RyeBrye> It's a keystore
Nov 05 07:17:21 <RyeBrye> I'm actually looking into doing that now
Nov 05 07:17:44 <RyeBrye> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1016#c5 talks about adding to it
Nov 05 07:18:13 <spikebike> 30MB
Nov 05 07:19:21 <spikebike> 40
Nov 05 07:19:28 <spikebike> 41
Nov 05 07:19:34 <spikebike> 42
Nov 05 07:19:40 <spikebike> 43
Nov 05 07:19:47 <spikebike> 44
Nov 05 07:19:53 <spikebike> 45
Nov 05 07:19:55 <languish> ...
Nov 05 07:20:09 <spikebike> 46.8
Nov 05 07:20:46 <spikebike> completed... waiitng
Nov 05 07:21:13 <spikebike> ah the query, upgrade no or later
Nov 05 07:21:44 <spikebike> think I should just do it or checksum it
Nov 05 07:23:54 * spikebike applies
Nov 05 07:25:57 <RyeBrye> I'm pretty sure that file is just a set of root ca certs
Nov 05 07:26:00 <spikebike> it showed the box open
Nov 05 07:26:04 <spikebike> not it's the arrow into a chip
Nov 05 07:26:18 <RyeBrye> if you hit alt-l it gives progress
Nov 05 07:26:24 <RyeBrye> L that is
Nov 05 07:26:26 <RyeBrye> alt-L
Nov 05 07:26:41 <spikebike> just rebooted twice
Nov 05 07:26:43 <RyeBrye> but not on the chip part
Nov 05 07:26:48 <RyeBrye> yeah, your back in RC29
Nov 05 07:26:56 <spikebike> I was in RC19
Nov 05 07:27:07 <RyeBrye> your /sytem gets wiped with the update
Nov 05 07:27:22 <spikebike> as long as it has the magic telnetd I'll be happy
Nov 05 07:29:37 <RyeBrye> so it was the media process that was downloading it?
Nov 05 07:30:09 <spikebike> it was the only one with the right username
Nov 05 07:30:59 <spikebike> root still works
Nov 05 07:32:24 <RyeBrye> still... we should really work on getting this thing to not checkin
Nov 05 07:33:03 <RyeBrye> it will just keep downloading if the keys aren't in place?
Nov 05 07:33:14 <spikebike> no checkin fails
Nov 05 07:33:21 <spikebike> it checks once an hour or something
Nov 05 07:33:21 <RyeBrye> not the cacerts
Nov 05 07:33:23 <RyeBrye> but the ota
Nov 05 07:33:33 <spikebike> oh yeah, I suspect it will download each time
Nov 05 07:33:37 <spikebike> then delete
Nov 05 07:33:37 <RyeBrye> I blocked it in my hosts file, but I think that blocked everything else too
Nov 05 07:33:44 <neerhaj> i have this tool called KeyTool IUI, but u need the keystore password to open that bks
Nov 05 07:33:50 <RyeBrye> do all of the google services go to android.clients.google.com
Nov 05 07:33:58 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I don't know the PW to the bks
Nov 05 07:34:12 <spikebike> there's a pw?
Nov 05 07:34:21 <RyeBrye> there are pw's on keystores
Nov 05 07:34:22 * spikebike goes to do phone #2
Nov 05 07:34:36 <RyeBrye> that one might not have it's number up yet
Nov 05 07:36:01 <spikebike> they were bought at the same time.. but your are right
Nov 05 07:36:45 <RyeBrye> I don't know if the Check In piece is in the source tree - I'm grepping to find the string "Check for upgrade" and not seeing it
Nov 05 07:36:53 <spikebike> hope it hits soon
Nov 05 07:37:09 <spikebike> i.e. before rc30
Nov 05 07:37:16 <RyeBrye> yeah
Nov 05 07:37:29 <RyeBrye> I think t-mobile said RC29 could be up until Nov12th
Nov 05 07:37:46 <neerhaj> besides cacerts and otacert any other security file u guys found ?
Nov 05 07:38:44 <RyeBrye> no
Nov 05 07:39:13 <neerhaj> so these two are the culprits
Nov 05 07:39:34 <RyeBrye> culprits for what?
Nov 05 07:39:57 <neerhaj> stopping me from replacing files
Nov 05 07:39:59 <RyeBrye> cacerts is the list of trusted authorities that you must have to be able to trust SSL certs
Nov 05 07:40:05 <RyeBrye> No, they aren't
Nov 05 07:40:27 <RyeBrye> otacert.zip are the public keys used for the OTA updates so they can be verified when they are downloaded
Nov 05 07:40:50 <RyeBrye> the recovery piece that does the flashing has it's own list of keys COMPILED INTO IT that it looks for
Nov 05 07:40:51 <spikebike> well the problem is
Nov 05 07:41:03 <spikebike> the .bks file might just have the normal root certs
Nov 05 07:41:08 <spikebike> nothing specific to google
Nov 05 07:41:09 <RyeBrye> I think it does
Nov 05 07:41:16 <RyeBrye> I just looked at the strings in it
Nov 05 07:41:51 <spikebike> not sure if it supports a negative cert
Nov 05 07:42:01 <spikebike> or a blacklist
Nov 05 07:43:09 <RyeBrye> they might use the same cert on their server for all their android.clients.google.com - so blocking the checkin might also block the syncing
Nov 05 07:43:50 <spikebike> dunno if an /etc/hosts entry would block that host
Nov 05 07:43:59 <RyeBrye> I think it does
Nov 05 07:44:25 <spikebike> it could just give preference to dns
Nov 05 07:45:18 <RyeBrye> true
Nov 05 07:45:33 <neerhaj> it seems package manager is scanning for valid cert in apk
Nov 05 07:45:46 <RyeBrye> yeah, that is probably true too
Nov 05 07:45:54 <RyeBrye> everything has to be signed in the apks
Nov 05 07:46:08 <RyeBrye> but the signature doesn't have to be from a trusted source
Nov 05 07:46:15 <RyeBrye> from what I've read
Nov 05 07:46:41 <RyeBrye> oh, I think I blocked the thing in my hosts file and the market might have stopped working... not sure
Nov 05 07:47:26 <RyeBrye> I wonder if I could just write an entry in the sql_lite db to tell it my last checkin was in 2049 or something
Nov 05 07:47:40 <RyeBrye> and if it would just be like "oh, that's definitely recent enough"
Nov 05 07:47:45 <RyeBrye> and just not check
Nov 05 07:48:08 <spikebike> hmm
Nov 05 07:48:17 <spikebike> strace of the device_info run
Nov 05 07:48:29 <spikebike> should at least give a hint
Nov 05 07:50:11 <RyeBrye> Hmm... my /system is full
Nov 05 07:55:03 <ionstorm> now what is the best way to tether, ssh proxy?
Nov 05 07:57:03 <ionstorm> netcat should work nc -l -p 80 | nc irc.target_server.com 6667 | nc -b -l -p 80
Nov 05 07:57:30 <ionstorm> ;]
Nov 05 07:58:35 <spikebike> just build the iptables client side
Nov 05 07:58:47 <spikebike> then turn on ip masq
Nov 05 07:59:47 <ionstorm> doesnt connectbot create a ssh tunnel?
Nov 05 07:59:52 <ionstorm> or have that ability?
Nov 05 08:02:10 <DarkriftX> http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=15&t=153&p=422&rb_v=viewtopic#p422
Nov 05 08:02:16 <ionstorm> ssh -D 9999 -C me@ipaddress.com
Nov 05 08:02:26 <DarkriftX> modified it to have one large pastable chunk (bottom of first post)
Nov 05 08:03:33 <Neverender> i havent seen anything about the g1 being rooted on any major site..
Nov 05 08:03:41 <RyeBrye> maybe that's good :)
Nov 05 08:03:52 <Neverender> heh yeah
Nov 05 08:03:55 <RyeBrye> maybe that means it will be a lower priority fix :)
Nov 05 08:03:57 * RyeBrye doubts that
Nov 05 08:04:12 <swetland> yup. google obviously is completely unaware of the issue ^^
Nov 05 08:04:30 <Neverender> obviously
Nov 05 08:04:30 <RyeBrye> It's T-mobile I'm worried about being aware of the issue :)
Nov 05 08:04:44 <neerhaj> i wonder if we'll be allowed to discuss telnetting here
Nov 05 08:06:21 <DarkriftX> lol swetland
Nov 05 08:06:39 <DarkriftX> major site?
Nov 05 08:06:41 <DarkriftX> meaning?
Nov 05 08:07:02 <Neverender> i dunno
Nov 05 08:07:05 <DarkriftX> its on xda-devs, androidcommunity, and lots of others
Nov 05 08:07:08 <Neverender> not just a forum post somewhere
Nov 05 08:07:30 <DarkriftX> ive got 43 blogs linking to my forum post about it alone (just from today) and ive found 3 diggs about it
Nov 05 08:07:48 <DarkriftX> its out there, but i do see your point
Nov 05 08:08:01 <DarkriftX> not many sites to give news on hacking a phone
Nov 05 08:08:02 <Neverender> and i see yours
Nov 05 08:08:14 <DarkriftX> and im afraid to /. my site
Nov 05 08:08:23 <DarkriftX> shared hosting lol
Nov 05 08:10:48 <Chainfire> DarkriftX> link?
Nov 05 08:10:56 <DarkriftX> to what
Nov 05 08:10:57 <Chainfire> (just woke up... missed the convo)
Nov 05 08:11:08 <DarkriftX> oh, about g1 being rooted
Nov 05 08:11:14 <Chainfire> yah
Nov 05 08:11:20 <DarkriftX> he is saying he doesnt see it on any major sites
Nov 05 08:11:48 <languish> yeah, i'm suprised engadgetmobile hasn't blasted it to the world yet
Nov 05 08:12:32 <languish> or tmonews for that matter
Nov 05 08:12:35 <Chainfire> cool. hopefully when my g1 comes in today... :)
Nov 05 08:12:37 <Chainfire> afk
Nov 05 08:13:28 <cmonex> heh hey Chainfire
Nov 05 08:14:59 <Tauno> "Public Service Announcement: this channel may now be logged on the web" <-- url anyone?
Nov 05 08:17:08 <cmonex> yeah i'd like url
Nov 05 08:23:27 <DarkriftX> lol, someone /.'d my site :S
Nov 05 08:24:15 <DarkriftX> http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=1704251
Nov 05 08:30:57 <DarkriftX> here it goes again
Nov 05 08:31:04 <DarkriftX> channel dying off for the night
Nov 05 08:31:50 <Tauno> what night are you talking about.. it's 10:30 am ;)
Nov 05 08:31:53 <swetland> dark: people have been running busybox on android for quite a while now.  you don't need root for that ^^
Nov 05 08:32:15 <DarkriftX> what was on there wasnt full busybox
Nov 05 08:32:26 <DarkriftX> the "toolbox" ?
Nov 05 08:32:35 <swetland> yes
Nov 05 08:32:40 <DarkriftX> its got like 12 commands
Nov 05 08:32:42 <DarkriftX> the rest are gone
Nov 05 08:32:49 <swetland> but that hasn't stopped people from using busybox on the platform
Nov 05 08:32:59 <DarkriftX> i tried to symlink it to a lot of commands and nothing worked
Nov 05 08:33:00 <RyeBrye> from the /data ?
Nov 05 08:33:17 <RyeBrye> swetland - where did they run it from?
Nov 05 08:33:18 <swetland>  /data/local is there so you can drop all the goodies you like in it
Nov 05 08:33:24 <RyeBrye> ah
Nov 05 08:33:38 <swetland> I *think* /data/local/bin is in the path for adb shell
Nov 05 08:33:44 <swetland> if not, it should be (that was the intention)
Nov 05 08:34:00 <RyeBrye> but obviously su wouldn't work there :P
Nov 05 08:34:07 <RyeBrye> since /data is nosuid
Nov 05 08:34:16 <swetland> yup
Nov 05 08:34:33 <RyeBrye> I'll submit a patch to init.rc to fix that for you guys :)
Nov 05 08:34:38 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 05 08:35:17 <cmonex> hm DarkriftX
Nov 05 08:35:29 <cmonex> PM
Nov 05 08:35:38 <DarkriftX> the "toolbox" is a very slimmed down version of busybox
Nov 05 08:36:41 <swetland> it's not actually a version of busybox
Nov 05 08:36:59 <swetland> though it works similarly (bunch of little commands in one binary)
Nov 05 08:37:31 <RyeBrye>  /apps/Updater/src/com/android/updater/PesterActivity.java <-- like the name
Nov 05 08:38:37 <DarkriftX> i wish soemone had compiled and created an android rom for the dell axim x51 :(
Nov 05 08:40:42 <cmonex> RyeBrye
Nov 05 08:40:46 <cmonex> i wasnt here most of the time
Nov 05 08:40:56 <cmonex> have you managed to compile anything C yet?
Nov 05 08:41:33 <RyeBrye> yeah, but nothign worthwhile
Nov 05 08:41:38 <RyeBrye> I was busy doing work most of the day today
Nov 05 08:44:07 <RyeBrye> I'm beat...
Nov 05 08:48:16 <systm> so we have root on android..
Nov 05 08:48:19 <systm> er g1
Nov 05 08:48:27 <DarkriftX> yup
Nov 05 08:49:20 <DarkriftX> next step, the world!
Nov 05 08:49:51 <systm> well, I cant do WPA2_enterprise via the Wifi config, but couldn't I in Wpa_supplicant?
Nov 05 08:49:52 <DarkriftX> like i said, i would love a way to be able to drop out of "android" and to a linux console and be able to restart android up
Nov 05 08:49:55 <DarkriftX> would be great :)
Nov 05 08:50:09 <systm> question, why does telnet seem so laggy?
Nov 05 08:50:16 <DarkriftX> of course i want a g1 more for a pda and less for a phone
Nov 05 08:50:18 <Tauno> sorry for asking something android specific but am I safe if I store username/password combos  in plaintext in sharedPreferences? (I get the prefs by calling getSharedPreferences(String name, MODE_PRIVATE) )
Nov 05 08:51:03 <DarkriftX> no idea systm, havent heard anyone else say that
Nov 05 08:52:14 <neerhaj> http://gizmodo.com/5076790/android-g1-jailbroken-already
Nov 05 08:52:29 <Tauno> I mean.. how is security enforced there? Is the file/db/whatever the SharedPreferences uses encrypted on the device and can i be sure that only my application can see the values or do I have to roll my own encryption there?
Nov 05 08:55:25 <Tauno> I guess I'll have to ask again if you guys wake up :)
Nov 05 08:58:14 <Chainfire> backish... hey cmonex
Nov 05 08:59:51 <cmonex> Chainfire :)
Nov 05 09:00:22 <cmonex> RyeBrye : PM ? :)
Nov 05 09:00:23 * DarkriftX goes to sleep
Nov 05 09:00:24 <DarkriftX> gn all
Nov 05 09:00:27 <cmonex> gnite
Nov 05 09:01:11 <Chainfire> nn DarkriftX
Nov 05 09:03:23 <systm> oh Dark, im reading your busybox tut
Nov 05 09:03:45 <systm> if i follow everything there, i shouldn't fudge anything?
Nov 05 09:04:08 <DarkriftX> nope
Nov 05 09:04:13 <systm> k
Nov 05 09:04:19 <DarkriftX> well, be careful, that gives you write access to /system
Nov 05 09:04:28 <DarkriftX> that can allow you to screw lots up
Nov 05 09:04:34 <DarkriftX> but htose commands are safe to that point
Nov 05 09:05:10 <swetland> be careful not to delete your files. androids need files for optimal happiness.
Nov 05 09:05:35 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 05 09:05:37 <DarkriftX> exactly
Nov 05 09:05:40 <cmonex> well
Nov 05 09:05:45 <cmonex> reflash if that happens
Nov 05 09:07:23 <DarkriftX> cmonex, not everyone is as unscared of a brick as you. most ppl would freak at that point, you would just fix it
Nov 05 09:07:41 <DarkriftX> you have probably bricked and unbricked more devices the htc has made :S
Nov 05 09:08:03 <DarkriftX> anyways, gn for real this time
Nov 05 09:08:13 <Chainfire> meh cmonex never bricked any of my devices and ive tested several of her stuff ;)
Nov 05 09:08:37 <DarkriftX> she normally tests stuff first
Nov 05 09:08:44 <DarkriftX> ask her why she is a jtag expert lol
Nov 05 09:09:14 <Chainfire> you mean except on the devices she doesnt have :P
Nov 05 09:09:18 <DarkriftX> and im mostly joking
Nov 05 09:09:54 <systm> what does busybox cp -s busybox cp do?
Nov 05 09:23:56 * Chainfire emplores UPS to deliver the G1 already... :/
Nov 05 09:24:36 <kIDDAI> is there a way to manually close apps on the g1
Nov 05 09:24:45 <spikebike> kill
Nov 05 09:25:32 <kIDDAI> no terminal, right
Nov 05 09:41:19 <malcolm_> uuuhau
Nov 05 09:42:29 <cmonex> jtag expert?
Nov 05 09:42:46 <cmonex> that's because 900c has this problem it has NOR flash without ECC
Nov 05 09:42:54 <cmonex> corrupt bootloader for no reason :)
Nov 05 09:43:00 <cmonex> but yes i know you are joking
Nov 05 09:52:41 <spikebike> kIDDAI use pterminal
Nov 05 10:26:46 <dream_kill> hi
Nov 05 10:32:51 <dream_kill> anyone awake?
Nov 05 10:33:05 <languish> plz, no kill meh dream
Nov 05 10:33:28 <languish> i's needin  b makin ph1 kallz
Nov 05 10:39:17 <og01> lwhats the latest firmware version?
Nov 05 10:39:17 <Tauno_> Sure I'm awake.. it's 12:38 why should I be sleeping? :P
Nov 05 10:39:33 <neerhaj> rc29
Nov 05 10:40:12 <dream_kill> rc29 for US
Nov 05 10:40:17 <dream_kill> RC7 for uk
Nov 05 10:40:17 <og01> will my phone auto download the latest revision or should i get it myself
Nov 05 10:40:19 <og01> uk
Nov 05 10:40:35 <neerhaj> u will get a prompt
Nov 05 10:40:50 <languish> og01 if you wait, it will come.
Nov 05 10:40:59 <og01> ok i got rc7anyhow
Nov 05 10:41:05 <languish> no telling when though
Nov 05 10:41:32 <og01> there isnt seperate branches for uk/us is there?
Nov 05 10:41:44 <neerhaj> no
Nov 05 10:42:06 <og01> why delay uk then?
Nov 05 10:42:38 <Tauno_> first test it in US, they are not as whiney as UK.. I gues..
Nov 05 10:42:51 <og01> heheh perhaps not
Nov 05 10:42:53 <languish> lol, sure we are :)
Nov 05 10:43:26 <Chainfire> meh
Nov 05 10:43:33 <Chainfire> US customers are the _most_ whiney
Nov 05 10:43:40 <languish> see?
Nov 05 10:43:47 <Chainfire> while you hardly ever hear from Japanese customers
Nov 05 10:43:51 <og01> any good points of interest in the change log?
Nov 05 10:43:53 <Chainfire> and Europe being somewhere in between :)
Nov 05 10:43:59 * og01 looks for a change log
Nov 05 10:45:11 <Tauno_> We also don't complain here... at least not in public.. we complain to our wife when we get home but only after she promises that she won't tell anyone that we complained about stuff :P
Nov 05 10:47:16 <dream_kill> i tested uk, us HTC and chinese roms
Nov 05 10:47:24 <dream_kill> UK and US are locked down
Nov 05 10:47:30 <og01> hmm the update log on googlecode has too much in it to sift the good stuff
Nov 05 10:47:39 <dream_kill> chinese and HTC brand no locked down and root acess
Nov 05 10:48:18 <og01> anybody know of anything goosd to expect iwhen we update to >=rc29?
Nov 05 10:48:40 <languish> og01, ut's mostly bugfixes
Nov 05 10:49:06 <og01> any improovement to im?
Nov 05 10:49:21 <og01> i was expecting more protocols when i got the phone
Nov 05 10:51:08 <languish> dunno what gave you the impression to expect such a thing.  engadget had a list of the rc28 changes in one of their posts, and rc29 adds the borwser patch for an exploit
Nov 05 10:51:22 <languish> *browser
Nov 05 10:51:57 <Neverender> og01: uk and us are different branches
Nov 05 10:51:59 <Neverender> i think
Nov 05 10:52:35 <Neverender> rc7 is comparable to rc29 or maybe rc19
Nov 05 10:52:36 <Neverender> i dunno
Nov 05 10:52:43 <og01> well most previews of the phone stated aim and windowslive/msn support out of the box
Nov 05 10:53:21 <og01> no biggie, i can wait for a multiprotocol client
Nov 05 10:53:47 <og01> atm im resorting to bitlbee though
Nov 05 10:54:25 <Neverender> you dont have aim/msn/yahoo?
Nov 05 10:54:37 <og01> umm nope
Nov 05 10:54:44 <og01> not that i can find
Nov 05 10:55:54 <Neverender> hmm
Nov 05 10:56:04 <og01> Neverender: please enlighten me on how to add account for these
Nov 05 10:56:34 <Neverender> but you have gtalk?
Nov 05 10:56:40 <og01> indeed
Nov 05 10:57:45 <Neverender> i dont know what to tell you
Nov 05 10:58:13 <og01> pressing menu on the gtalk account screen does nothing
Nov 05 10:58:30 <og01> is it a seperate app or bundled in with gtalk?
Nov 05 10:58:41 <Neverender> i have an im client that has aim, gtalk, windows live and yahoo
Nov 05 10:58:57 <og01> where are you from?
Nov 05 10:58:58 <Neverender> its pretty straightforward
Nov 05 10:59:00 <Neverender> us
Nov 05 10:59:14 <og01> must be a difference in versions
Nov 05 10:59:22 <og01> im running rc7
Nov 05 10:59:23 <Neverender> must be different, yeah
Nov 05 10:59:24 <iNToIT> shouldn't be :|
Nov 05 10:59:28 <iNToIT> ah
Nov 05 10:59:35 <iNToIT> you're in the .uk?
Nov 05 10:59:43 <og01> yup
Nov 05 11:00:24 <og01> will these protocols be supported in an upcomming version?
Nov 05 11:00:27 <iNToIT> interesting. htc stated there wouldn't be a difference in shipping versions between the US and UK. I'm surenow they meant just the hardware, or didn't check with t-mobile/google first
Nov 05 11:00:56 <Chainfire> HTC has no control over what T-Mobile decides to change (wether or not due to Google)
Nov 05 11:01:07 <iNToIT> og01, wait another few hours, then ask when the google devs are here
Nov 05 11:01:24 <iNToIT> it's still 6am EST here, and 3am where most of the gdevs are
Nov 05 11:01:25 <og01> ok will do
Nov 05 11:01:38 <og01> so 5 hours?
Nov 05 11:01:42 <iNToIT> sure
Nov 05 11:01:52 <Neverender> i remember a google dev saying there were some slight differences to the us and uk software
Nov 05 11:01:59 <Neverender> i guess thats one of them
Nov 05 11:02:01 <og01> i'll ask after work
Nov 05 11:02:04 <iNToIT> appearently there are
Nov 05 11:02:08 <og01> must be
Nov 05 11:02:24 <iNToIT> makes sense, just, disappointing
Nov 05 11:02:31 <og01> else im exceptionally think and am missing something major about the ui
Nov 05 11:02:44 <iNToIT> og01, did you longpress?
Nov 05 11:02:51 <og01> (pretty sure im not)
Nov 05 11:02:57 <og01> yup i did
Nov 05 11:02:59 <iNToIT> but no.. all 4 were on the menu in the IM app I have
Nov 05 11:03:07 <rwhitby> one would hope the software is different, cause in most countries you don't need all the carrier lockdown that happens in the US ...
Nov 05 11:03:09 <iNToIT> didn't need to do anything to make them appear
Nov 05 11:03:20 <og01> i'll try again
Nov 05 11:03:25 <Tauno_> the uk version does not ship with the same IM protocol support AFAIK.. this has been discussed here recently
Nov 05 11:04:14 <og01> yup defintatly nothing but gtalk
Nov 05 11:04:21 <Neverender> that reminds me
Nov 05 11:04:26 <Neverender> its 3 am
Nov 05 11:04:26 <og01> it is a shame
Nov 05 11:04:34 <og01> as i was expecting them
Nov 05 11:04:41 <tomgibara> Also it doesn't appear to have the voice dialer either.
Nov 05 11:04:49 <iNToIT> og01, perhaps theres an Im app in your market
Nov 05 11:04:53 <iNToIT> that you can use..
Nov 05 11:05:02 <og01> there is im+
Nov 05 11:05:13 <iNToIT> oh, the $20 app
Nov 05 11:05:14 <og01> but its rubish and only 7day trial
Nov 05 11:05:24 <iNToIT> yeah, something free should come out
Nov 05 11:05:29 <og01> im using bitlbee atm
Nov 05 11:06:02 <Chainfire> android market already does payed apps? thought that would happen in 2009
Nov 05 11:06:04 <og01> though irc client on a box using connectbot
Nov 05 11:06:29 <iNToIT> somethign about my market app is hosed
Nov 05 11:06:35 <og01> no they release a free trial which must be unlocked by regestering at the devs website
Nov 05 11:06:52 <Chainfire> heh
Nov 05 11:06:58 <Chainfire> isnt that against google market regulations?
Nov 05 11:07:20 <og01> not sure, but its well known about i would say
Nov 05 11:07:39 <iNToIT> whenever I start the market app, even after closing it, it continues to attempt a 3g connection, and logcat fills up with E/SOCKETLOG(  189): add_recv_stats recv 0
Nov 05 11:07:54 <iNToIT> after awhile it restarts the phone
Nov 05 11:08:20 <iNToIT> oh damn
Nov 05 11:08:23 <iNToIT> just realized
Nov 05 11:08:46 <Chainfire> "However, if you want to collect fees after the free trial expires, you must collect all fees for the full version of the Product through the Payment Processor on the Market."
Nov 05 11:09:10 <og01> hmm
Nov 05 11:09:17 <Chainfire> section 3.3
Nov 05 11:09:43 <og01> perhaps googlely people should be informes about it then
Nov 05 11:09:51 <Chainfire> myeah
Nov 05 11:09:53 <og01> just incase they missed it
Nov 05 11:10:05 <Chainfire> im not at all happy with google market thing though
Nov 05 11:10:24 <og01> what about it dont you like?
Nov 05 11:10:52 <languish> I'm sure the google market will improve drastically
Nov 05 11:11:04 <Chainfire> it pretty much says if you want on the market you cant sell it anywhere else. i think you need to use google checkout - which would be ok if it was actually available for non-US and non-UK residents)
Nov 05 11:11:05 <languish> right now I find it highly entertaining
Nov 05 11:11:16 <Chainfire> google is allowed it to use your commercial product without charging, etc
Nov 05 11:11:20 <Neverender> its a beta, you know :-D
Nov 05 11:11:33 <Chainfire> its not about the software, its about the terms :)
Nov 05 11:12:03 <og01> hmm
Nov 05 11:12:21 <Chainfire> also, you cannot take anything off the market - they are allowed to keep it - but they are allowed to change their fees and such
Nov 05 11:12:27 <og01> well you dont have to selling from the market atall
Nov 05 11:12:31 <Chainfire> whats to step 'em from making the fee 100% of sale price :)
Nov 05 11:12:57 <languish> Chainfire, if they did no one else would add apps to the market
Nov 05 11:13:00 <Neverender> devs not putting there apps on the market, thats what
Nov 05 11:13:13 <Neverender> what he said
Nov 05 11:13:35 <Chainfire> but what if they do it in 5 years? :)
Nov 05 11:13:59 <languish> then in 5 years and a few days, no one else would add apps to the market anymore
Nov 05 11:14:24 <Chainfire> myeah but all the apps that are already on it they can take all the profit ;)
Nov 05 11:14:37 <languish> i wouldn't qworry about it
Nov 05 11:14:41 <Neverender> it wouldnt be in googles best interest to do that
Nov 05 11:14:50 <languish> they'll all be warezed by then anyway, by the authors :|
Nov 05 11:14:51 <Chainfire> its my job to worry about it, languish.
Nov 05 11:14:54 <og01> by which time there might be several other markets avaliable
Nov 05 11:15:03 <Neverender> no new apps would still kill the market
Nov 05 11:15:25 <languish> there are other markets even now
Nov 05 11:15:34 <og01> vendor specific ones etc
Nov 05 11:15:38 <languish> pick a different market with terms you like better
Nov 05 11:15:46 <languish> or create your own market
Nov 05 11:15:50 <og01> languish: really?
Nov 05 11:15:53 <languish> yes
Nov 05 11:16:07 <og01> languish: with app
Nov 05 11:16:10 <og01> ?
Nov 05 11:16:25 <og01> languish: or just webpage repositorys
Nov 05 11:16:32 <languish> http://gizmodo.com/5066938/mobihand-launching-android-app-store-colors-us-confused
Nov 05 11:16:38 <languish> among others
Nov 05 11:16:49 <languish> yeah, one or two of them have their own app
Nov 05 11:17:07 <languish> more will likely follow suit in the future
Nov 05 11:17:14 <og01> you found them to be any good?
Nov 05 11:17:22 <languish> i haven't bothered yet.
Nov 05 11:17:47 <ErikT> There's like 5 apps on the Handango store. ;-)
Nov 05 11:17:57 <languish> :)
Nov 05 11:18:08 <languish> aren;t 2 of them EA games too?
Nov 05 11:18:17 <ErikT> Yeah, something like that.
Nov 05 11:18:18 <Chainfire> cant say im happy with handango or mobihand either :P
Nov 05 11:18:21 <ErikT> It's pathetic.
Nov 05 11:19:16 <languish> wtf, $25 app on handango for a video player/
Nov 05 11:19:36 <languish> oh, worse, it's a video converter
Nov 05 11:19:41 <languish> for pc
Nov 05 11:19:45 <Chainfire> oh cool
Nov 05 11:19:45 * languish facepalm
Nov 05 11:19:50 <languish> just use Super
Nov 05 11:19:52 <Chainfire> google checkout now available in my country :) yay!
Nov 05 11:19:54 <languish> it works great
Nov 05 11:19:57 <kIDDAI> i will send you vlc for even 10 bucks
Nov 05 11:19:57 <kIDDAI> :)
Nov 05 11:20:03 <languish> Chainfire, lol
Nov 05 11:20:48 <languish> yeah, if you want to convert video for the g1, http://forums.tmonews.com/index.php?topic=3261.0
Nov 05 11:22:33 <Chainfire> oh great, but no google checkout for merchants for my country :/
Nov 05 12:06:32 <og01> anybody know of a text file viewer/editor?
Nov 05 12:06:56 <og01> fpr the android platform
Nov 05 12:07:59 <languish> there's one in the market called pTextEdit
Nov 05 12:08:08 <languish> (yes including the p)
Nov 05 12:08:28 <og01> thanks
Nov 05 12:08:35 <languish> np
Nov 05 12:28:05 <Laz> telnet on the g1 yay
Nov 05 13:00:28 <kernel_panic> any document regarding android build structure
Nov 05 13:00:41 <kernel_panic> can anybody help me
Nov 05 13:06:42 <Dougie187> android build structure?
Nov 05 13:06:46 <Dougie187> like compiling the source?
Nov 05 13:07:23 <kernel_panic> no
Nov 05 13:07:33 <kernel_panic>  how it is getting compiled
Nov 05 13:07:41 <kernel_panic> flow of compilation
Nov 05 13:08:08 <Dougie187> isn't there a readme with the source?
Nov 05 13:08:11 <Dougie187> or something?
Nov 05 13:08:34 <kernel_panic> readme is thr
Nov 05 13:08:45 <kernel_panic> but not regarding the flow
Nov 05 13:09:09 <jbq_> do you mean, in which order things are getting done?
Nov 05 13:09:21 <kernel_panic> ya
Nov 05 13:09:44 <kernel_panic> so that i can compile some parts separatly
Nov 05 13:09:56 <kernel_panic> if they r independent
Nov 05 13:10:04 <jbq_> It uses dependencies in make, and the order is only loosely defined.
Nov 05 13:10:41 <kernel_panic> i m going through the main.mk
Nov 05 13:11:05 <kernel_panic> but i m not getting proper flow idea
Nov 05 13:12:13 <kernel_panic> do u have any idea
Nov 05 13:12:29 <kernel_panic> like if i want to compile only core
Nov 05 13:13:16 <kernel_panic> do it have any flags to set for compiling separate parts of build
Nov 05 13:13:25 <jbq_> in this case you need to know the target name of core.dex (or whatever file you want to compile), and type make <target_name>
Nov 05 13:13:50 <jbq_> I don't know how the target names are built, though.
Nov 05 13:14:23 <jbq_> Look at the mm and mmm macros that are installed by build/envsetup.sh, they might give you clues or other ways to achieve what you want.
Nov 05 13:14:56 <kernel_panic> k fine
Nov 05 13:15:36 <jbq_> Sorry, I'm not an expert in the implementation details. I'm not trying to make things hard for you, I just don't know the details.
Nov 05 13:18:21 <kernel_panic> k
Nov 05 13:24:46 <landslide> when I build, i get an 'Unrecognized option : 99999999'
Nov 05 13:26:10 <jbq_> Would you happen to be building on linux, with several javac programs installed (e.g. JDK, gcj, OpenJDK)?
Nov 05 13:30:45 <eldenz> anyone tried the ApiDemos on an actual G1, what framerates do you get for the rotating cubes?
Nov 05 13:31:25 <eldenz> the one example where the fps are displayed
Nov 05 13:39:40 <Laz> over 9000!!!
Nov 05 13:41:49 <eldenz> but how much does it drop?
Nov 05 13:57:41 <invain_> hi
Nov 05 13:58:06 <michaelnovakjr> Laz ...
Nov 05 13:58:15 <Laz> yes?
Nov 05 13:58:20 <michaelnovakjr> over 9000 huh
Nov 05 13:58:25 <Laz> :)
Nov 05 13:59:04 <Laz> irssi coming to g1 soon
Nov 05 13:59:36 <michaelnovakjr> nice, i'm writing an IRC client too :)
Nov 05 13:59:39 <eldenz> you liar
Nov 05 13:59:48 <michaelnovakjr> i'm writing one yes
Nov 05 14:00:03 <eldenz> i mean Laz
Nov 05 14:00:08 <michaelnovakjr> ah :)
Nov 05 14:00:16 <eldenz> : )
Nov 05 14:00:36 <Laz> trying to compile irssi to ARM
Nov 05 14:00:50 <michaelnovakjr> uh
Nov 05 14:01:51 <`vip> yay my phone will be delivered sometime today
Nov 05 14:02:00 <`vip> hopefully in the next couple of hours!
Nov 05 14:02:01 <`vip> ;D
Nov 05 14:02:43 <ttuttle> `vip: congrats
Nov 05 14:03:09 <`vip> im excited :P
Nov 05 14:03:24 <`vip> only thing im sad about is no internet sharing yet :(
Nov 05 14:03:57 <`vip> michaelnovakjr: which client are you writing ?
Nov 05 14:04:04 <`vip> isnt someone here writing IRCell also ?
Nov 05 14:04:04 <michaelnovakjr> my own ;)
Nov 05 14:04:14 <michaelnovakjr> i'm writing one meant for android
Nov 05 14:04:39 <og01> do oyu have a project page?
Nov 05 14:04:49 <michaelnovakjr> not yet
Nov 05 14:05:01 * og01 is using irssi on his g1 already (kinda)
Nov 05 14:05:05 <michaelnovakjr> i'm working on two projects at the same time...
Nov 05 14:05:14 <michaelnovakjr> so haven't dedicated to project pages yet
Nov 05 14:05:24 <og01> whats the other?
Nov 05 14:05:31 <michaelnovakjr> Flickr app
Nov 05 14:05:40 <michaelnovakjr> upload and management
Nov 05 14:05:40 <og01> meh
Nov 05 14:05:55 <og01> concentrate on the irc client
Nov 05 14:06:00 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Nov 05 14:06:02 <og01> plx
Nov 05 14:06:34 <og01> i would write/:elp write myself
Nov 05 14:06:49 <michaelnovakjr> not a programmer?
Nov 05 14:06:51 <og01> its what i want more than anything atm
Nov 05 14:06:58 <og01> yeah i am
Nov 05 14:07:00 <Laz> ahhh almost!!!! it crashed
Nov 05 14:07:16 <Dougie187> good morning michaelnovakjr
Nov 05 14:07:19 <og01> learning java and android api now
Nov 05 14:07:24 <michaelnovakjr> good morning Dougie187
Nov 05 14:07:33 <Dougie187> Hows it going?
Nov 05 14:07:34 <ttuttle> good morning
Nov 05 14:07:39 <michaelnovakjr> not bad
Nov 05 14:07:40 <Dougie187> good morning ttuttle
Nov 05 14:07:52 <michaelnovakjr> how's it going?
Nov 05 14:07:55 <Dougie187> pretty good
Nov 05 14:08:04 <Dougie187> trying to get all of these stupid optimization programs to work.
Nov 05 14:08:10 <Dougie187> its a pain in my ass...
Nov 05 14:08:23 <og01> i think i could start doing more complicated apps in a few weeks
Nov 05 14:08:40 <michaelnovakjr> done anything in java before og01 ?
Nov 05 14:08:41 <og01> teying to write a veey simple profile manager atm
Nov 05 14:08:54 <og01> no java before no
Nov 05 14:09:20 <michaelnovakjr> what's your background? what languages do you usually write in?
Nov 05 14:09:43 <og01> most my exp is with c, cpp, vcpp etc
Nov 05 14:09:55 <og01> and the basics
Nov 05 14:10:04 <og01> err vb etc
Nov 05 14:10:11 <michaelnovakjr> :) i hate vb
Nov 05 14:10:15 <Dougie187> lol who doesnt?
Nov 05 14:10:18 <Dougie187> vb sucks.
Nov 05 14:10:19 <og01> like wise
Nov 05 14:10:34 <Dougie187> i had to write vbscripts at my old job
Nov 05 14:10:34 <Dougie187> lol
Nov 05 14:10:36 <og01> but i was made to write apps in it for a while
Nov 05 14:11:28 <og01> i've not done much in other languages
Nov 05 14:11:54 <michaelnovakjr> the java approach is a bit different
Nov 05 14:12:13 <og01> michaelnovakjr: do go on
Nov 05 14:12:52 <michaelnovakjr> the implementation is different, solving problems is different :)
Nov 05 14:13:08 <michaelnovakjr> especially from c, and i'd event say cpp
Nov 05 14:13:13 <michaelnovakjr> even*
Nov 05 14:14:05 <og01> michaelnovakjr: im doing ok it feels familiar, yet i have alot to learn
Nov 05 14:14:20 <og01> it will be a while until im comfortable
Nov 05 14:14:26 <michaelnovakjr> totally :)
Nov 05 14:14:33 <michaelnovakjr> are you using a book or online resources?
Nov 05 14:15:10 <og01> online
Nov 05 14:15:26 <michaelnovakjr> you should look at the book Effective Java
Nov 05 14:16:10 <og01> so far i've done a few tutorials and looked through the docs that come with the api
Nov 05 14:16:21 <og01> i may have a look
Nov 05 14:16:40 <michaelnovakjr> :) javadoc is good, but if you don't know the language they can certainly be confusing
Nov 05 14:17:18 <michaelnovakjr> java programming concepts are a good place to start
Nov 05 14:17:54 <og01> i'll take a look tonight
Nov 05 14:18:17 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Nov 05 14:18:26 <og01> it may be a better aprouch to look at java docs rather than android specific ones
Nov 05 14:18:40 <og01> but i feel like im doing ok
Nov 05 14:18:55 <og01> just a few things so far i dont understand
Nov 05 14:19:16 <michaelnovakjr> program design in java is important... that's where programs have issues with speed and such
Nov 05 14:19:34 <michaelnovakjr> that's with any language though :)
Nov 05 14:21:23 <og01> the structure seems quite different i didnt know if that was more dont to the way things are done in the android platform or if it was just java :)
Nov 05 14:21:34 <michaelnovakjr> java
Nov 05 14:21:53 <og01> the process life cycle is different also
Nov 05 14:21:54 <michaelnovakjr> android has an interesting application design though
Nov 05 14:21:56 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Nov 05 14:22:15 <michaelnovakjr> intents, providers, services... all very good things
Nov 05 14:23:03 <og01> i like it i think - but it means that devs need to be careful i guess
Nov 05 14:23:32 <michaelnovakjr> as always :)
Nov 05 14:24:33 <og01> right need to get on with some work
Nov 05 14:24:54 <og01> (and my thumbs are aching)
Nov 05 14:25:20 <og01> i'll idle here though
Nov 05 14:25:49 <og01> michaelnovakjr: thanks for the help!
Nov 05 14:26:00 <michaelnovakjr> no problem
Nov 05 14:26:09 <Laz> where is the busybox compiled for android? I saw it yesterday now can't find it...
Nov 05 14:30:58 <Disconnect> Laz: its on the first page of googling 'android busybox' :)
Nov 05 14:31:14 * Disconnect wants dropbear instead
Nov 05 14:31:35 <Disconnect> but it looks like i either need to free space on my laptop or buy ram for my fileserver before i can finish building the sources.
Nov 05 14:33:27 <Laz> thanks now i can roam free with root :)
Nov 05 14:34:11 <Disconnect> do the install in /data (as they say) then cp -a it into /system/busybox. (suid works in /system)
Nov 05 14:34:58 <Laz> never thought we would have root :P
Nov 05 14:35:19 <michaelnovakjr> Laz: i wouldn't get excited about it... aren't they going to patch that?
Nov 05 14:35:54 <thoraxe> hmm... is there anywhere for info about flash coming to android or not?
Nov 05 14:35:59 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: hide the ota keys and its fine. i haven't tested it but i'd bet dd will allows you to reflash the phone yourself..
Nov 05 14:36:18 <Laz> just dont update michaelnovakjr
Nov 05 14:36:20 <michaelnovakjr> eh, not too interested in flashing though :)
Nov 05 14:36:25 <michaelnovakjr> i'd rather take the updates :)
Nov 05 14:36:35 <Disconnect> it certainly works on other embedded linux boxes - quiesce the mtd layer and dd in your own ver (with whatever patches or updates you like.. or their ver, with the root hole reopened)
Nov 05 14:37:08 <AxeFestis> man, I want g1 to come to sweden
Nov 05 14:37:31 <d0nets> i want to come to sweden
Nov 05 14:37:34 <d0nets> and run from the police
Nov 05 14:38:03 <blau> hey guys
Nov 05 14:38:11 <blau> anyone try using the keyguard manager?
Nov 05 14:38:21 <d0nets> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNAt7wz5NQ0
Nov 05 14:38:24 <d0nets> that looks fun
Nov 05 14:39:10 <d0nets> thats not the same one i saw yesterday though
Nov 05 14:40:39 <AxeFestis> nice, should try out that some time ;)
Nov 05 14:40:41 <bloo> im a newbie
Nov 05 14:40:44 <Tauno_> anyone knows what's the easiest way to get the same text appearance in a custom View as R.style.TextAppearance_Large?
Nov 05 14:48:13 <bloo> this is probably awful, btu create a view object, set its style to that and then set your views font, size, etc to match
Nov 05 14:50:13 <bloo> but at least it should work till you figure out the best way
Nov 05 14:50:25 <bloo> theres probably something like findstylebyid or something
Nov 05 15:02:11 <michaelnovakjr> Tauno_: are you extending an existing view?
Nov 05 15:02:57 <Tauno_> nope
Nov 05 15:03:20 <michaelnovakjr> then you'll have to implement it, did you take a look at the android source?
Nov 05 15:03:27 <Tauno_> right now I just took the implementation from TextView that deals with setting text appearance
Nov 05 15:03:42 <Tauno_> just owndering if there's an easier way ;)
Nov 05 15:03:59 <michaelnovakjr> you could extend the TextView if your custom view is similiar
Nov 05 15:04:13 <Tauno_> not really :/
Nov 05 15:04:37 <tomgibara> Tauno_: style="@android:style/TextAppearance.Large"
Nov 05 15:05:17 <michaelnovakjr> ^^ yea that's it :)
Nov 05 15:06:27 <bloo> i think the keyguardlock is broken
Nov 05 15:06:53 <bloo> because apparently the alarm built into android uses it, but it doesnt get disabled
Nov 05 15:07:56 <Tauno_> tomgibara, and then? :)
Nov 05 15:10:28 * unix_lappy wonders how many screwed up G1's well be seeing in the coming days due to script kiddies trying to jailbreak...
Nov 05 15:10:49 <michaelnovakjr> what's the neeb to jailbreak it?
Nov 05 15:10:52 <tomgibara> Tauno_: If you want to do it programmatically then doing what you are already doing should be fine (setting R.style.TextAppearance_Large via TextView.setTextAppearance()).
Nov 05 15:10:58 <michaelnovakjr> that's what i don't understand
Nov 05 15:11:15 <tomgibara> Tauno_: Are you trying to avoid using a text view?
Nov 05 15:11:18 <Chainfire> could someone explain to me how the root thing works? as I understand it, you use some terminal app from market, which already runs at root... so apps are already able to be root?
Nov 05 15:11:26 <michaelnovakjr> tomgibara: he's using a Custom view
Nov 05 15:12:00 <tomgibara> If I want to display text in a custom view, I create a custom ViewGroup and add a TextView to it, or I extend TextView.
Nov 05 15:12:23 <tomgibara> (I've never actually had to do the latter)
Nov 05 15:12:28 <unix_lappy> there's no real need to do it....right the hell now (imho) unless you need some lower level debuggin done.
Nov 05 15:12:43 <Tauno_> tomgibara, yeah.. I'm just extending a view and I don't want to use TextViews etc in there
Nov 05 15:12:53 <michaelnovakjr> and even then unix_lappy why
Nov 05 15:13:10 <unix_lappy> for the average user you'll get a nice packaged app to jailbreak to install the apps you want
Nov 05 15:13:12 <michaelnovakjr> instead of writing apps all we have are people looking to hack it
Nov 05 15:13:48 <unix_lappy> michaelnovakjr: plenty of people are writing apps....
Nov 05 15:13:57 <unix_lappy> ...just waiting to be able to sell them, of course.
Nov 05 15:13:58 <michaelnovakjr> good apps? :)
Nov 05 15:14:20 <michaelnovakjr> i'm planning on NOT paying for apps, and instead writing free competitors
Nov 05 15:14:37 <d0nets> im trying to write a free guitar tuner
Nov 05 15:14:56 <d0nets> and i might charge .99 in 2009 for a pro with a piano tuner and metronome and chords and such
Nov 05 15:15:05 <Chainfire> michaelnovakjr> free time / hobby or you have some other way to get paid? :)
Nov 05 15:15:35 <Disconnect> d0nets: you're trying to convince someone -else- to write a free guitar tuner.. thats different :)
Nov 05 15:15:38 <d0nets> im just a broke college kid who needs a guitar tuner
Nov 05 15:15:39 <d0nets> right
Nov 05 15:15:45 <d0nets> i am newb
Nov 05 15:15:57 <d0nets> but i have a couple helpers
Nov 05 15:16:08 <bloo> i made 3.58$ from donations so far!
Nov 05 15:16:09 <tomgibara> Tauno_: Then take a look at http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=core/java/android/widget/TextView.java (starting line 1229)
Nov 05 15:16:14 <d0nets> im more like a PHB as someone pointed out
Nov 05 15:16:44 <michaelnovakjr> Chainfire: i have a job :)
Nov 05 15:16:56 <Tauno_> [17:03]	<Tauno_>	right now I just took the implementation from TextView that deals with setting text appearance
Nov 05 15:16:56 <tomgibara> You need to do something similar to extract the text appearance, I wouldn't bother unless you really need to avoid the cost of a TextView.
Nov 05 15:16:57 <Tauno_> [17:03]	<Tauno_>	just owndering if there's an easier way ;)
Nov 05 15:17:05 <Tauno_> tomgibara ;)
Nov 05 15:17:06 <michaelnovakjr> but if Google goes through the trouble of giving android source away, i don't see why everyone can't
Nov 05 15:17:17 <michaelnovakjr> bloo: what did you write?
Nov 05 15:17:23 <Chainfire> cause some people want to eat too
Nov 05 15:17:32 <bloo> because google has a million other ways to make money off android
Nov 05 15:17:34 <tomgibara> Tauno_: gah sorry - no, I'm pretty there's no easier way
Nov 05 15:17:49 <michaelnovakjr> so why don't they go write for the iPhone
Nov 05 15:17:50 <bloo> i made dgMoney, an expense tracker/check register/etc..
Nov 05 15:17:58 <michaelnovakjr> its all about money there :
Nov 05 15:18:12 <bloo> iphone development sucks
Nov 05 15:18:13 <Chainfire> cause Apple doesn't like developers :)
Nov 05 15:18:21 <michaelnovakjr> Chainfire: i haven't had any problem with them
Nov 05 15:18:23 <Chainfire> and you cant do anything worth developing on it
Nov 05 15:18:28 <michaelnovakjr> sue you can
Nov 05 15:18:36 <Chainfire> not the things I wanted to :)
Nov 05 15:18:55 <bloo> i just dont want to use the iphone
Nov 05 15:19:00 <bloo> why develop for something im not gonna use
Nov 05 15:19:33 <michaelnovakjr> i have an iPhone and a G1, they both have their uses
Nov 05 15:20:11 <bloo> i need a real keyboard
Nov 05 15:20:42 <bloo> and hard buttons
Nov 05 15:20:46 <michaelnovakjr> eh
Nov 05 15:20:57 <bloo> hmmm
Nov 05 15:22:13 <bloo> im so miffed at the stupid broken keyguard manager
Nov 05 15:22:36 <bloo> i was dieing to make something that would turn the screen on and display text messages and emails as they came in
Nov 05 15:26:17 <jbq> bloo: sounds like an interesting idea, especially if you make it generic (i.e. allow any application to display information there).
Nov 05 15:27:08 <bloo> jbq, good idea
Nov 05 15:27:19 <bloo> but somethign with the keyguard is broken
Nov 05 15:27:49 <jbq> The challenge with the lock screen is that it's not an activity, not an application, and therefore it lives somewhat outside of the android world.
Nov 05 15:28:07 <unix_lappy> bloo: keyguard manager?
Nov 05 15:28:09 <bloo> jbq, look at keyguardmanager docs
Nov 05 15:28:28 <bloo> maybe im completely off base but it looks like that allows control of the lock screen
Nov 05 15:29:05 <bloo> and keyguardlock too
Nov 05 15:29:09 <jbq> I'm not actually familiar with the details of that code, just bits of conversation I've heard in the hallways.
Nov 05 15:29:17 <bloo> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/KeyguardManager.KeyguardLock.html
Nov 05 15:29:52 <bloo> i even found references to it in the code for the Alarm
Nov 05 15:31:30 <bloo> http://review.source.android.com/1547/diff/1/z4f4a56c538038c45a29806505c970e6bff7e4f97
Nov 05 15:33:15 <blount> bloo: uuh, you should be able to wake the fone and disable the keyguard no problem
Nov 05 15:33:17 <unix_lappy> anyone know of documented instructions for building android for the HTC Vogue?
Nov 05 15:33:39 <blount> the only downside is you'll be burning more battery
Nov 05 15:33:45 <blount> but that's your tradeoff :-)
Nov 05 15:34:07 <bloo> blount: any idea how?
Nov 05 15:34:14 <blount> go read the alarmclock source
Nov 05 15:34:17 <Dialekt> skype out yet?
Nov 05 15:34:31 <bloo> my alarmclock only wakes the phone
Nov 05 15:34:36 <bloo> doesnt disable keyguard
Nov 05 15:34:41 * jbq scrolls back, realizes that bloo is interested in disabling the keyguard, not modifying it, and apologizes for the confusion.
Nov 05 15:35:33 <bloo> someone, maybe me, needs to fix the date and time pickers to select all on focus
Nov 05 15:35:58 <Tauno> Dialekt, ?
Nov 05 15:36:05 <bloo> does anyone else agree thats its so fucking abyssmal to have to delete whats there to type, maybe 2 characters
Nov 05 15:36:09 <Dialekt> is there skye for g1
Nov 05 15:36:11 <Dialekt> droid
Nov 05 15:36:11 <Dialekt> ?
Nov 05 15:36:14 <Dialekt> skype
Nov 05 15:36:24 <Tauno> I heard that iSkoot is but i don't know for sure.. can't install it since I doon't have a G1 :P
Nov 05 15:37:03 <blount> bloo: you're sure that it doesn't disable keyguard?
Nov 05 15:37:18 <bloo> oh thats weird
Nov 05 15:37:31 <bloo> i guess the g1 keyguard stuff is different from emulator
Nov 05 15:37:42 <vol> iSkoot claims that it does, haven't tried it.
Nov 05 15:37:49 <bloo> the alarm on my actual phone does disable the keyguard
Nov 05 15:38:08 <blount> I'll test on emulator as well -- hang on
Nov 05 15:44:15 <bloo> gotta head out
Nov 05 15:44:18 <bloo> ill be back in a  bit
Nov 05 15:50:20 <tmccrary> hooray! http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/05/1436224
Nov 05 15:50:47 <tmccrary> it's like vjday for android, freedom has arrived!
Nov 05 15:52:16 <vol> uh
Nov 05 15:52:21 <vol> you are not 0 day : (
Nov 05 15:52:22 <vol> sorry
Nov 05 15:52:23 <Disconnect> tmccrary: that happened yesterday. (earlier, actually. still kicking myself for seeing prelim reports and going "thats never gonna work on a retail device, there's now way they are that dumb)
Nov 05 15:53:13 <tmccrary> I'm not 0 day.. I actually have things I do ;)
Nov 05 15:53:50 <michaelnovakjr> haha, that is until they patch that
Nov 05 15:55:49 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: again.. once its broken its going to be -very- difficult to patch. we can disable ota updates and flash by hand from userspace, which means (at least for my unit) anything i flash is gonna have a hole in it.
Nov 05 15:56:14 <michaelnovakjr> sure, but you won't get updates
Nov 05 15:56:30 <michaelnovakjr> or at least you'll have to build them with a patch that prevents the hole from being patched
Nov 05 15:56:40 <Disconnect> although .. telnet? really? i stand by my opinion of the device security.. (who looked at the list of executables and thought "we'd better leave telnetd just in case"..??)
Nov 05 15:56:55 <tmccrary> yeah, that's pretty odd
Nov 05 15:56:55 <michaelnovakjr> seems like a lot of work for root access :)
Nov 05 15:57:00 <tmccrary> for the most part, telnet should be banned
Nov 05 15:57:03 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: the tmob updates are signed, not encrypted. they can be modified.
Nov 05 15:57:27 <michaelnovakjr> i guess if you really want root access...
Nov 05 15:57:29 <Disconnect> tmccrary: its pretty clear it was an early dev tool of some sort. (maybe for when adb just wasn't a reasonable option?)
Nov 05 15:57:43 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: i really want vpn and backups, actually. same as i've been saying i really wanted from the beginning :)
Nov 05 15:58:26 <michaelnovakjr> so if those things were provided by Google you wouldn't care about the root access?
Nov 05 15:58:43 <tmccrary> yeah vpn will be awesome
Nov 05 15:58:49 <tmccrary> that's the only thing I'm missing
Nov 05 15:58:51 <michaelnovakjr> agreed
Nov 05 15:58:57 <Disconnect> i'm not trusting google to rewrite a vpn in java..
Nov 05 15:59:11 * jbq looks forward to seeing contributions
Nov 05 15:59:14 <tmccrary> it doesn't make sense to write a custom vpn, and java is not a language for that anyway
Nov 05 15:59:26 <tmccrary> vpn stuff is pretty lowlevel, its more systems programming than app programming
Nov 05 15:59:35 <Disconnect> (for that matter, i'm not trusting anyone to rewrite it if i don't have to. better to take a more popular upstream app such as vpnc or openvpn and write a pretty gui wrapper around it. they are designed to do that anyway..)
Nov 05 15:59:37 <michaelnovakjr> so who said Java?
Nov 05 16:00:00 <tmccrary> Once tun support is in the kernel, porting and making openvpn work shouldn't be
Nov 05 16:00:01 <tmccrary> tough
Nov 05 16:00:27 <tmccrary> vpn will take the same route as webkit/web browsing
Nov 05 16:00:35 <tmccrary> wrap an existing native solution
Nov 05 16:00:41 <Disconnect> tmccrary: the fun libc will require some work, but the beauty is it shouldn't involve touching the security code. so minimize potential for 'oops'
Nov 05 16:01:44 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: also, replace email with k-9 (or just patch email to be working) .. etc. when i can actually control my device with what tmobile provides, i'll prolly not care so much. but thats not gonna happen anytime soon, so i'm not too worried about it.
Nov 05 16:01:58 <michaelnovakjr> Disconnect: mail is being worked on
Nov 05 16:02:19 <Disconnect> (not just picking on email, although its the largest pile on the preinstalled list, but the ability to remove/replace -any- app is important when storage is so limited)
Nov 05 16:03:06 <jbq> removing system apps kills your ability to do a factory reset, though.
Nov 05 16:03:30 <jbq> (overriding them wouldn't, but it also wouldn't help on the storage front)
Nov 05 16:04:06 <Disconnect> that monster recovery.img doesn't contain the .. recovery image? :)
Nov 05 16:04:32 <jbq> It's actually tiny, and it just contains a minimal userspace to do recovery.
Nov 05 16:05:11 <thoraxe> yes, vpn very important
Nov 05 16:05:12 <thoraxe> and flash
Nov 05 16:05:18 <thoraxe> and a flickr direct upload app
Nov 05 16:05:27 * Disconnect should get logged in again and check, somewhere i thought there was a 60-70 meg image
Nov 05 16:06:07 <jbq> IIRC it's somewhere between 1 and 2MB. system.img is the large one (tens of MB).
Nov 05 16:06:33 <jbq> (that's why system.img is mounted read-only - so it can't be messed with)
Nov 05 16:22:40 <zhobbs> http://i35.tinypic.com/11iisz5.jpg <- I hope they don't cancel my account, I think I responded in time
Nov 05 16:23:30 <michaelnovakjr> haha, they even put the beta after Gmail :)
Nov 05 16:23:37 <cbeust> So lame
Nov 05 16:23:44 <cbeust> A few people will fall for that unfortunately :(
Nov 05 16:24:01 <michaelnovakjr> yea, its unfortunate
Nov 05 16:25:17 <shackan> does android really use GTK?
Nov 05 16:25:25 <shackan> romainguy: ^
Nov 05 16:25:53 <cbeust> No
Nov 05 16:26:11 <cbeust> That article was completely inaccurate, if you are referring to what I think you are referring to
Nov 05 16:26:24 <shackan> cbeust: I am, damn journalists
Nov 05 16:26:30 <shackan> cbeust: thanks
Nov 05 16:26:54 <cbeust> you forgot the quotes:  damn "journalists"
Nov 05 16:27:04 <zhobbs> hehe
Nov 05 16:27:20 <Chainfire> "get off my lawn!" ?
Nov 05 16:27:21 <shackan> indeed
Nov 05 16:28:13 <shackan> I wonder what interests google has in gtk
Nov 05 16:28:22 <Chainfire> i think DarkriftX just got slashdotted :)
Nov 05 16:28:41 <shackan> but anyway, twenty grands is peanuts for your company
Nov 05 16:28:46 <cbeust> shackan: as far as Android is concerned, none
Nov 05 16:30:01 <shackan> cbeust: yeah, and neither of earth and (I suppose) picasa use it, and desktop search has a browser interface only, so..
Nov 05 16:34:33 <keny> hello
Nov 05 16:34:41 <vol> hello
Nov 05 16:40:58 <danfuzz> blort
Nov 05 16:41:12 <cbeust> Exactly
Nov 05 16:44:31 <michaelnovakjr> shackan: why would android need Gtk?
Nov 05 16:45:00 <zhobbs> wow, DarkriftX is famous now
Nov 05 16:45:01 <andyross> To port Gtk software, would be the obvious answer.  Maybe some Maemo stuff might fit.
Nov 05 16:46:06 <rubyonlinux> morning
Nov 05 16:46:26 <michaelnovakjr> andyross: but Gtk is unnecessary on android
Nov 05 16:46:35 <michaelnovakjr> you can port apps without using Gtk
Nov 05 16:47:03 <shackan> michaelnovakjr: I was asking because some blogger with adhd got a job as a journalist and wrote it was the case
Nov 05 16:47:06 <andyross> Well, yeah, by rewriting the GUI.  That's more work.
Nov 05 16:47:16 <vol> haha
Nov 05 16:48:33 <michaelnovakjr> yea, like i said, unnecessary :)
Nov 05 16:49:01 <andyross> I wouldn't say "unnecessary" exactly.  Note that Gtk+ has a bunch of features Android still lacks, like serious I18N text layout and accessibility support.  I don't think it's insane.  It's clearly not preferable to having those things in the core toolkit, but if you have an app that needs them...
Nov 05 16:49:39 <Cedric2> Sure, but there is still not much point in porting Gtk just to have these features (which we are working on, btw)
Nov 05 16:49:41 <gdsx> GTK is huge.  Also, Android doesn't use X
Nov 05 16:49:47 <gdsx> "more trouble than it's worth"
Nov 05 16:49:55 <gdsx> Cedric2: btw, http://ptrace.fefe.de/wtfm.jpg
Nov 05 16:50:08 <Cedric2> gdsx: word
Nov 05 16:50:17 <andyross> Gtk doesn't need X.  But it is huge, granted.
Nov 05 16:50:49 <gdsx> andyross: it doesn't need X, true, but you'd still have to port it to Android's windowing system
Nov 05 16:51:08 <andyross> Although "huge" in the same sense that webkit is huge.  It's not something that wouldn't fit -- I had an arm build of it a few years back when I was working on a project that was intended to look something like android, actually.  It was 3M as I remember.
Nov 05 16:51:32 <gdsx> andyross: also I'm not sure that the "mental model" of GTK matches Android's
Nov 05 16:51:58 <shackan> how good is android at internationalization? pango really shines there, but it's very heavy too
Nov 05 16:52:03 <andyross> From the "View/GtkWidget" level down it does.  There's nothing in Gtk that looks like an activity.
Nov 05 16:52:14 <Cedric2> Gtk is already sluggish on my desktop, I shiver at the idea of porting it on a mobile device
Nov 05 16:52:38 <shackan> Cedric2: my gtk internet tablet would like to have a chat with you
Nov 05 16:52:40 <gdsx> Cedric2: I doubt you mean "GTK"; perhaps GNOME, though
Nov 05 16:52:44 <andyross> I actually got as far as throwing dialogs up on a shared memory "window" server (looked a lot like the surface flinger, albeit without accelleration support) on my A780.  Then the iPhone was announced and I gave up.
Nov 05 16:53:15 <andyross> Cedric2: Gtk is sluggish on your desktop because of the immense complexity in the theme engine rendering.  None of that would end up on the device.
Nov 05 16:54:16 <michaelnovakjr> Cedric2: yes, the idea is pretty insane
Nov 05 16:56:41 <gdsx> Cedric2: also, ftr, I've used GTK on two iPaqs, and it was fine
Nov 05 16:57:08 <benley> I bet it was still ugly :)
Nov 05 16:57:18 <Cedric2> :)
Nov 05 16:58:15 <RyeBrye> GTK on mobile devices is fine and dandy, but the platform android has going for it is very nicely built and very nice to develop for IMO
Nov 05 16:58:16 <gdsx> benley: low blow (and no, not all GTK themes are ugly)
Nov 05 16:58:46 <michaelnovakjr> I use GTK and like programmign it
Nov 05 16:59:01 <michaelnovakjr> but on the desktop, as far as android.... i think they have a very nice system
Nov 05 16:59:02 <andyross> Sigh.  As the KDE vs. Gnome fanbooi wars enter their second decade, they're getting even more pathetic.
Nov 05 16:59:04 <RyeBrye> Oh, wait... I was thinking Qt :)
Nov 05 16:59:16 * RyeBrye was up WAY too late if he's mixing Qt and GTK in his head :)
Nov 05 17:00:07 <andyross> michaelnovakjr: It's not an either or thing.  There's nothing insane about a non-native toolkit.  The fact that you wouldn't design a device from scratch using it doesn't say much about whether software based on it would be useful to actual users.  What you're making amounts to a purity argument.
Nov 05 17:01:01 <michaelnovakjr> eh, i mean i wouldn't be against it, but i probably wouldn't use it
Nov 05 17:02:11 <andyross> For new software, certainly not.  But again, I suspect the use case here would be to take advantage of pre-existing code, probably from Maemo.  Or even script integration: writing for android in a script (shameless plug: nasal has a gtk library: http://plausible.org/nasal) would be pretty cool, but not currently supported.
Nov 05 17:02:40 <bloo> got the low space warning already :(
Nov 05 17:04:08 <gdsx> andyross: I'm pretty confident folks will get that stuff going when there's an approved JNI method and interpreters are ported over (and quite possibly sooner)
Nov 05 17:05:39 <andyross> The existing hacky JNI mechanism works just great, though.  Not much of a barrier.
Nov 05 17:07:07 <og01> can anybody from google tell me if the other chat protocols will be included in the next update to g1 in the uk?
Nov 05 17:07:13 <gdsx> andyross: except that apps using it likely will break when folks get an update with the new JNI stuff
Nov 05 17:07:30 <gdsx> andyross: so it might not be a big problem for the developer, but the users will suffer
Nov 05 17:07:58 <andyross> Well, but only in a trivial way, if that (the current mechanism just relies on System.load() working for arbitrary file paths).   One update to fix it.  There aren't any API-visible changes.
Nov 05 17:08:48 <gdsx> andyross: as I said, it might not be a big problem for the developer, but the users will (likely) suffer
Nov 05 17:09:24 <gdsx> andyross: what I imagine is that someone gets an update, says "wow, this update just broke my apps", and complains to us or to T-Mobile
Nov 05 17:09:30 <andyross> Only if the update breaks the preexisting mechanism, which is possible but IMHO kinda unlikely (what would they remove, and why bother when JNI is now supported?)
Nov 05 17:10:37 <andyross> I guess my real point is that while I buy that google doens't want folks running around using unsupported APIs, there's a big benefit to users to having native apps earlier rather than later, and a *huge* benefit to developers getting an early jump on the procss.
Nov 05 17:12:13 <bloo> google guys are here?
Nov 05 17:12:15 <bloo> neato
Nov 05 17:12:19 <gdsx> bloo: hi
Nov 05 17:12:29 <Cedric2> andyross: a few apps do that (Quake) and it's pretty easy to figure out, but the odds of such apps breaking as we release new OTA's are high
Nov 05 17:12:41 <bloo> i missed the developer contest, can I have some dough?
Nov 05 17:12:50 <bloo> someone donated $4 to me already, but i'd like a few grand
Nov 05 17:12:54 <Cedric2> bloo: Sure, what's your bank account number?
Nov 05 17:12:55 <gdsx> bloo: the bakery's that way ------>
Nov 05 17:12:59 <Chainfire> isnt there a new dev contest next year?
Nov 05 17:13:36 <Disconnect> for everyone who was blaming crappy 3rd-party adapters for my music player troubles... http://store.androidcommunity.com/content/accessories/11-176--3571.htm is what i got and you can blow me cuz its from htc :) still doesn't work tho :(
Nov 05 17:13:53 <keny> great, just read the news about G1 users getting root access. i hope that means getting google's android on the phone (instead of HTC's locked-down-android)
Nov 05 17:14:16 <Cedric2> keny: getting root access is very different from porting Android on arbitrary hardware :)
Nov 05 17:14:17 <bloo> how is htc's android locked down?
Nov 05 17:14:43 <Disconnect> (didn't get it there tho, cuz i'm not gonna support stores that list every mobile accessory under the sun - including incompatible ones - as being "<Foo> for the t-mobile g1!".. as if it were part of the name..)
Nov 05 17:14:56 <Disconnect> Cedric2: ..what arbitrary hardware?
Nov 05 17:15:03 <bloo> and anyone notice performance issues with the sms app?
Nov 05 17:15:05 <keny> Cedric2, i know, but i thought the default android branch already supports the G1's hardware
Nov 05 17:15:20 <andyross> bloo: The official answer is by isolating user-programmable feature into non-root user accounts with fairly strict filesystem privileges.  The real answer turns out be be something closer to "not"
Nov 05 17:15:21 <gdsx> bloo: do you have a more specific description?
Nov 05 17:16:18 <bloo> gdsx: its not as snappy as other software, pressing the back button while in a conversation takes like  2 seconds to go back to the list of conversations
Nov 05 17:16:18 <Disconnect> bloo: tmob android is locked down so that you can't do backups or write vpns, etc.. but you -can- run a root telnetd that lets anyone on the network in to destroy your device. its neat.
Nov 05 17:16:53 <bloo> clicking someones name takes like 2 seconds to pop up the actual conversation, i frequently get "messaging not responding" popups
Nov 05 17:17:19 <bloo> scrolling the list of all conversations is choppy
Nov 05 17:17:20 <Cedric2> bloo: are you saying you get frequent Application Not Responding from the SMS app?!?
Nov 05 17:17:29 <bloo> cedric: correct
Nov 05 17:17:37 <Disconnect> just ooc how many conversations?
Nov 05 17:17:41 <Cedric2> First time I hear that
Nov 05 17:17:48 <Chainfire> seems like for what apps can and cannot do, HTC/T-Mobile Android is much more limited than WM out-of-the-box then
Nov 05 17:18:06 <gdsx> Chainfire: how so?
Nov 05 17:18:13 <Disconnect> Chainfire: yep
Nov 05 17:18:22 <bloo> only 8 convos, i thought the issues might be because i have like 1000+ texts in a single convo, but i deleted all of those and still have issues
Nov 05 17:18:39 <Disconnect> gdsx: ..backup/restore functionality is kind of a core feature of smartphones. except this one of course..
Nov 05 17:18:53 <gdsx> bloo: ok, yeah, I have heard of issues with lots of SMSes
Nov 05 17:18:56 <michaelnovakjr> i wrote an sms app a while back for the sdk
Nov 05 17:19:00 <gdsx> bloo: I believe this is a known bug
Nov 05 17:19:04 <Chainfire> gdsx> what Disconnect says
Nov 05 17:19:07 <keny> i don't have a G1 to check, unfortunately, but i heard the application frameworks functionality of replacing the core applications is gone in the G1.
Nov 05 17:19:07 <Disconnect> (and apps can be created to do it outside the apps shipped with WM/iPhone/etc - eg sync all data to/from the network, etc..)
Nov 05 17:19:10 <keny> or is it not gone?
Nov 05 17:19:14 <bloo> then i thought maybe the texts are kept in a database and since its sqlite, the space was vacuumed?
Nov 05 17:19:20 <bloo> wasnt
Nov 05 17:19:37 <Disconnect> kennyz: its gone but thats pretty standard. try replacing IE on a wm phone.. you can install new versions, or alternate apps, but i don't believe you can remove IE itself..
Nov 05 17:19:41 <dd94300> i am planning to use following URL for weather data'http://www.google.com/ig/api?weather=' which gives only 3 days weather forecast....is there any other API which gives 7 days.......does anybody know any URL? thanks
Nov 05 17:19:58 <gdsx> bloo: I'm not sure if there's a fix/workaround at the moment
Nov 05 17:20:02 <benley> yet another weather app?
Nov 05 17:20:08 <gdsx> dd94300: you could probably scrape various places pretty easily
Nov 05 17:20:08 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Nov 05 17:20:13 <keny> Disconnect, that's why android was meant to be different. I dont want a locked-down phone.
Nov 05 17:20:21 <michaelnovakjr> benley: we can file that with all the stupid tip calculators
Nov 05 17:20:26 <bloo> gdsx: oh thats fine, as long as its a known issue and im not screwing something up on my own i dont really care
Nov 05 17:20:34 <Chainfire> keny> but the G1 _is_ locked down like that
Nov 05 17:20:43 <Disconnect> keny: then you'd best get an openmoko device. or help port it to some other platform. cuz the htc dream is a locked down platform, much worse than most others..
Nov 05 17:20:49 <bloo> i had thought i broke my browser because everytime i tried to install an APK from the browser it kept crashing the installer
Nov 05 17:20:59 <keny> Chainfire, yeah exactly, thats what im saying
Nov 05 17:21:04 <Chainfire> ah ok
Nov 05 17:21:12 <bloo> turns out for some reason the INSTALL_SHORTCUT permission causes the installer to crash if its launched from the browser, any idea about htat?
Nov 05 17:21:15 <keny> (or what im trying to say)
Nov 05 17:21:32 <Disconnect> fwiw as tmob devices go its not too bad. but thats cuz tmob locks down phones so much that they are effectively unusable (3rd party apps - j2me and the like - can't get net access, for example..)
Nov 05 17:21:42 <keny> Disconnect, yeah, im basically waiting for android to get ported to some other cool smartphone. I like android. Not the G1.
Nov 05 17:22:18 <bloo> g1 is like a more powerful sidekick
Nov 05 17:22:25 <michaelnovakjr> i like the G1, its been great so far
Nov 05 17:22:27 <bloo> which is a good idea for tmobile to have
Nov 05 17:22:29 <RyeBrye> Disconnect - I've had tmobile phones with j2me that got net access before... btu thery were blackberrys
Nov 05 17:22:43 <bloo> id like a centro styled android phone
Nov 05 17:23:19 <gdsx> keny: so, are there specific features you'd like? (I'll note that the ability to replace certain core apps is something we're thinking about)
Nov 05 17:23:24 <keny> well the G1 is great, sure. I was thinking about getting one. But one _my_ requirements for a smartphone is having great functionality and being able to replace it for the most part
Nov 05 17:23:28 <andyross> My wife has a centro and is in love with my G1.  Stuff like this is just too personal.
Nov 05 17:23:38 <keny> one of*
Nov 05 17:23:56 <keny> gdsx: you mean for the G1 ? or for android? or for htc-android ?
Nov 05 17:24:10 <gdsx> keny: first off, what do you mean by htc-android?
Nov 05 17:24:12 <unix_lappy> andyross: personal?
Nov 05 17:24:32 <unix_lappy> keny: replace your iphone?
Nov 05 17:24:44 <andyross> Personal taste.  Like wanting an android phone without a slideout keyboard ("centro styled"), even if that means a smaller screen and much smaller key spacing.
Nov 05 17:24:45 <keny> i mean HTC's modification of google's android. I thought htc locked it down
Nov 05 17:24:49 <Disconnect> gdsx: ignoring the fact that google apps get apis and such the rest of us don't.. how about the ability to apply signed/clean/whatever updates to core apps? so google could release a new email apk (instead of making us wait for tmob to bother doing another update) or a quick patch to stop browser from eating app space...
Nov 05 17:25:27 <gdsx> keny: I think you're hearing too much FUD on the internet.  production phones _do_ have a bootloader that only flashes signed images, yes
Nov 05 17:25:32 <dd94300> benley: it is not only a weather app, it is going to be embedded into another app, i thought if i can get the URL quickly so i can start coding right away.....
Nov 05 17:25:50 <andyross> Disconnect: to be fair, source availability means that we *do* have access to those APIs.  On balance, it's much better to have source than docs.
Nov 05 17:25:53 <gdsx> Disconnect: in the pipeline
Nov 05 17:26:25 <Disconnect> andyross: i thought they were security locked. otherwise what is keeping anyone (eg slideme) from doing the app-installer magic that marketplace does?
Nov 05 17:26:34 <BluesLee> hi, some freerunner android users here?
Nov 05 17:26:38 <gdsx> Disconnect: and we're trying to either publicize APIs, or have core apps stop using them
Nov 05 17:26:41 <keny> gdsx, yeah, im not surprised about me hearing too much FUD, its the internet after all
Nov 05 17:26:57 <gdsx> Disconnect: the permissions system
Nov 05 17:27:09 <andyross> The installd is there, and you can use it the same way the installer does, no?  It's just listening on a socket.  Or are you asking for the ability to reflash the device, which it's true you don't have.  But that's not an issue of API exposure.
Nov 05 17:27:24 <Disconnect> gdsx: yah i know. the disclaimer was because that idea goes the other way and creates new private capabilities..
Nov 05 17:28:28 <gdsx> keny: so, continuing, other than the replace-core-apps thing, are there other features you wished Android or the G1 had?
Nov 05 17:28:29 <SanMehat> morning
Nov 05 17:28:38 <gdsx> SanMehat: hey
Nov 05 17:28:44 <tmccrary> Hey SanMehat!
Nov 05 17:28:47 <SanMehat> hola :)
Nov 05 17:28:53 <Disconnect> andyross: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/71f14048eec1c8df?pli=1
Nov 05 17:28:53 <SanMehat> <-- Now Married
Nov 05 17:29:03 <tmccrary> awesome
Nov 05 17:29:05 <Disconnect> cool congrats :)
Nov 05 17:29:20 <SanMehat> thanks.. those roofie-coladas did the trick!
Nov 05 17:29:34 <unix_lappy> heh.
Nov 05 17:29:35 <Cedric2> Disconnect: we tried to keep the number of our apps that use private API's to a minimum, most of them use public Google APIs
Nov 05 17:30:01 <Disconnect> Cedric2: i'm not arguing that.. i just brought it up in the context of "this is a step backwards in the api/permissions thing, but.."
Nov 05 17:30:07 <romainguy__> SanMehat: \o/
Nov 05 17:30:19 <Cedric2> Grats San!
Nov 05 17:30:33 <andyross> Right right, that's the party line.  But my question was technical: I don't see anything in the implementation that prevents you from hitting the installd socket just like the market app does.  Maybe there is, I dunno.
Nov 05 17:30:52 <keny> gdsx, being able to replace more stuff (deeper into the platform's layers) maybe? For me it's all about having freedom to change almost everything.
Nov 05 17:31:22 <RyeBrye> Like... making the home screen have a better way to organize the shitload of applications I have?
Nov 05 17:31:30 <keny> gdsx, maybe being able to flash self-compiled images of android. Pretty much the way i can replace my linux kernel
Nov 05 17:31:30 <bloo> my only big gripe about the g1 is that i want the screen to come up when I get a SMS
Nov 05 17:31:34 <gdsx> RyeBrye: you can replace home...
Nov 05 17:31:34 <romainguy__> go ahead, make a new one RyeBrye
Nov 05 17:31:35 <bloo> but im working on that so :)
Nov 05 17:31:42 * RyeBrye goes and makes a new home
Nov 05 17:31:46 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 05 17:32:15 <mattgyver83> Is it there a way to set a device name when you setup static IP address?
Nov 05 17:32:32 <romainguy__> RyeBrye: for what it's worth, I already implemented something that's gonna help in the next version of Home
Nov 05 17:32:56 <RyeBrye> romainguy - good :)
Nov 05 17:33:02 * RyeBrye trusts romainguy's skillzz
Nov 05 17:33:02 <gdsx> romainguy__: what are you talking about? there is no next version of Home.  Android 1.0 is the end of the line
Nov 05 17:33:04 <romainguy__> RyeBrye: and in the current Home, remember you can type to filter the list of installed apps
Nov 05 17:33:06 <keny> gdsx, having that, i think the possibilities are endless. i. e. up to the developers. Having a bootloader for being able to double boot would be fine, too, if that makes sense for a smartphone some time from now
Nov 05 17:33:07 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: would be nice to see a slide out panes with icons that denote categories....
Nov 05 17:33:12 <Cedric2> Making a new Home is very easy, just ask Romain
Nov 05 17:33:15 <d0nets> high ryebrye
Nov 05 17:33:24 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: include widgets support :) (hmm. maybe teeny-tiny webviews with an aggressive cache, ala osx dashboard)
Nov 05 17:33:28 <unix_lappy> would be ugly, but that's just off the top of my head.
Nov 05 17:33:37 <romainguy__> Cedric2: beware or I'll convince the boss to make you do the next Home :p
Nov 05 17:33:41 <bloo> we cant make widgets now?
Nov 05 17:33:43 <Chainfire> gdsx> is it not possible to install a second certificate to get the permissions you normally would not have access to?
Nov 05 17:33:50 <bloo> ok that explains why i couldnt find jack shit about how to make a desktop widget
Nov 05 17:33:53 <bloo> i thought i was an idiot
Nov 05 17:33:56 <romainguy__> Disconnect: webviews are currently not the way to go
Nov 05 17:34:00 <bloo> i may still be
Nov 05 17:34:00 <gdsx> Chainfire: I don't know; romainguy__ might
Nov 05 17:34:03 <romainguy__> bloo: no you can't
Nov 05 17:34:08 <RyeBrye> Guys guys guys... all these feature requests... I'm just goign to make a simple replacement "home" that says "Hello Android" and call it good
Nov 05 17:34:11 <Disconnect> bloo: possible but yah, no widgets
Nov 05 17:35:06 <bloo> anyone got any suggestions for my sms receiver that turns on the screen and displays your sms when you get one?
Nov 05 17:35:16 <Chainfire> well then, same question to you romainguy__ - is it possible to install a second certificate that allows for full access? (just asking this because this is how you get WM to do stuff it doesn't want you to)
Nov 05 17:35:41 <unix_lappy> Man do I need to start eating breakfast...
Nov 05 17:35:59 <Disconnect> bloo: erm, doesn't it light up already when an sms comes in, if notifications are on?
Nov 05 17:36:02 <romainguy__> Chainfire: a second certificate? what certificate?
Nov 05 17:36:14 <bloo> disc, mine doesnt
Nov 05 17:36:23 <bloo> maaybe i have an option turned off?
Nov 05 17:36:31 <RyeBrye> Chainfire - you mean flashing a new image?
Nov 05 17:36:31 <bloo> i get the status bar notification, itll vibrate and beep
Nov 05 17:36:39 <Chainfire> "Yes, these APIs are not in the SDK, but even if they
Nov 05 17:36:39 <Chainfire> were, you couldn't use them because they are protected by a permission
Nov 05 17:36:39 <Chainfire> that you can only have granted to you if you are signed with the same
Nov 05 17:36:39 <Chainfire> certificate as the core platform code.
Nov 05 17:36:49 <Chainfire> - sorry for bad paste.
Nov 05 17:37:04 <mattgyver83> what ports does android use to download from the market?  I cant download with my firewall on.
Nov 05 17:37:29 <bloo> matt, id assume 80 since cant you just download directy from the market via http?
Nov 05 17:37:57 <andyross> You have a restrictive firewall, yet no ability to see outgoing connection attempts?  Tsk tsk tsk. :)
Nov 05 17:37:59 <bloo> i remember seeing a suggestion in some of the google docs for updating, telling you to use some http:// .... /<your app id>
Nov 05 17:38:00 <gdsx> Chainfire: oh, no
Nov 05 17:38:18 <RyeBrye> Chainfire - that's interesting. Which apps does google have that use that?
Nov 05 17:38:30 * andyross firmly believes that if you're going to do the nazi admin thing, you need to go all-in.  No halfsies.
Nov 05 17:38:32 <RyeBrye> i.e which apps use the private APIs that check the apk's signing key?
Nov 05 17:38:32 <Chainfire> RyeBrye> Android Market
Nov 05 17:38:41 <gdsx> Chainfire: yeah, SSL certificates aren't shared
Nov 05 17:38:54 <RyeBrye> Hmm... does it verify that against the otakeys.zip?
Nov 05 17:39:36 <Chainfire> ok so no trickery like signing with your own cert and then injecting that into 'trusted certs collection'
Nov 05 17:40:07 <Chainfire> thats too bad.
Nov 05 17:41:14 <Chainfire> and i assume the telnetd root hack will soon be patched? :)
Nov 05 17:41:43 <keny> gdsx, btw i did not mention something obvious but important -- getting many other smartphones supported by android. But i guess that's up to the phone makers/providers, unless someone hacks+ports android to every phone one by one?
Nov 05 17:42:16 <gdsx> keny: well, there will be future Android handsets, undoubtedly.  And folks are working on various current handsets
Nov 05 17:42:36 <keny> im always happy to hear that :)
Nov 05 17:42:39 <romainguy__> Chainfire: no you cannot be signed with the platform key to access everything
Nov 05 17:42:59 <gdsx> keny: just to be clear, by "folks" I meant "folks external to Google"
Nov 05 17:43:16 <gdsx> keny: like xda-forums (iirc)
Nov 05 17:43:23 <keny> gdsx, yes, i have already seen some activity on xda-developers
Nov 05 17:43:25 <keny> yep
Nov 05 17:43:37 <Chainfire> well it would be nice if Google gave us a hand there... :)
Nov 05 17:43:48 <gdsx> Chainfire: in what way?
Nov 05 17:43:57 <Chainfire> porting Android to those devices
Nov 05 17:44:04 <Disconnect> ..lol.
Nov 05 17:44:06 <gdsx> Chainfire: "haha"
Nov 05 17:44:27 <Disconnect> Chainfire: can you give me a hand moving this weekend? i'll be at the bar, you just make sure all my stuff gets packed up and moved undamaged..
Nov 05 17:44:39 <keny> gdsx, maybe you could clarify some "FUD" to me? i mean, if you are able to gain root to the G1 (which you presumably can right now), would you be able to install a custom android build from google's git repositories and have a completely free phone?
Nov 05 17:44:41 <gdsx> we have plenty of stuff to work on already.  Thanks for the offer, though :o)
Nov 05 17:44:41 <BHSPitWeb> It sure would be nice if Google helped with those "ports for existing phones"
Nov 05 17:44:43 <andyross> Seems like a buildable source tree might count as "assistence" in porting, no?
Nov 05 17:45:09 * BHSPitWeb files a "Please port to my phone" ticket for Android source
Nov 05 17:45:26 <gdsx> BHSPitWeb: we've had worse (that is, "more hilarious") tickets
Nov 05 17:45:43 <unix_lappy> as opposed to making the platforms better by leaps and bounds for...everyone?
Nov 05 17:45:46 <andyross> keny: Not sure if anyone has tried yet, but I have to believe reflash toolkits are around the corner that allow you to build a custom system.
Nov 05 17:45:50 <BHSPitWeb> or at least, include a makefile option for omap-850
Nov 05 17:45:54 <BHSPitWeb> :)
Nov 05 17:45:54 <gdsx> keny: TBH, I don't know
Nov 05 17:46:03 <romainguy__> Chainfire: giving away all the source code is not giving you a hand already? :)
Nov 05 17:46:06 <romainguy__> keby: being root doesn't give you access to flashing the device, so no
Nov 05 17:46:22 <Chainfire> romainguy__ well if you add being allowed to do whatever I want to the device, we'll call it even?
Nov 05 17:46:25 <andyross> No?  Heh, that's a good trick.  The driver locks it down?  Certainly some of the flash blocks are writable.
Nov 05 17:46:25 <keny> gdsx, yes, what i mean is that - assuming you're able to - you'd get a completely free phone right?
Nov 05 17:47:03 <wastrel> source code
Nov 05 17:47:13 <andyross> Depends on "free" too.  Note that the completely free phone would come with a 2 year contract with T-Mobile. :)
Nov 05 17:47:23 <keny> hehe. free as in "libre"
Nov 05 17:47:36 <Disconnect> keny: no. bootloader. firmware drivers. gsm code (istr its a separate cpu in this design?) ...
Nov 05 17:47:57 <romainguy__> even the OpenMoko/FreeRunner uses a proprietary radio right?
Nov 05 17:48:05 <andyross> Right.  A required contract isn't "libre" for many definitions of the term.  I'm just playing a semantic game: the FSF notion of "free" and the "gratis" notion of "free" aren't even the only two definitions out there.
Nov 05 17:48:24 * Disconnect waits for someone to say "free human" again
Nov 05 17:48:40 <kRutOn> free mitnick
Nov 05 17:48:43 <danfuzz> free hat!
Nov 05 17:48:47 <andyross> And yeah, there's no hope of free software for the baseband CPU or DSPs either.
Nov 05 17:48:50 <Chainfire> isnt mitnick out by now?
Nov 05 17:49:01 <zhobbs> how can you get your phone's IP address?
Nov 05 17:49:21 <neerhaj> zhobbs : netstat in pTerminal
Nov 05 17:50:11 <poetic_folly|G5> well hello BHSPitWeb
Nov 05 17:50:15 <zhobbs> neerhaj: thanks
Nov 05 17:50:22 <gdsx> keny: well, not if you want to use the radio, no
Nov 05 17:50:53 <romainguy__> gdsx: speaking of weird bug reports: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1199
Nov 05 17:51:13 <gdsx> keny: for the version of the tree that's actually installable on dream, the RIL is still just a binary blob
Nov 05 17:51:23 <Disconnect> zhobbs: click your wifi connection. it'll tell you.
Nov 05 17:51:24 <keny> gdsx, because of the device drivers?
Nov 05 17:51:27 <keny> ok, i see
Nov 05 17:51:44 <Chainfire> is that tree public as well?
Nov 05 17:52:13 <Disconnect> romainguy_: its very badly worded certainly but it seems like a reasonable report
Nov 05 17:52:14 <gdsx> Chainfire: yeah, it's _way_ out of my lastlog, but ping swetland if you see him
Nov 05 17:52:32 <Chainfire> nice
Nov 05 17:53:21 <keny> does "radio" include wifi, 3g and gprs? all of them?
Nov 05 17:53:30 <keny> ughh i mean gps
Nov 05 17:53:34 <gdsx> keny: :o)
Nov 05 17:53:47 <gdsx> keny: certainly cell and GPS, likely wifi and BT also
Nov 05 17:53:51 <gdsx> wait
Nov 05 17:54:05 <gdsx> I _might_ be wrong about GPS, but I think I'm right
Nov 05 17:54:12 <Chainfire> more interested in the display drivers used, actually :)
Nov 05 17:54:14 <keny> duh
Nov 05 17:54:53 <gdsx> mattgyver83wasta: hahaha
Nov 05 17:56:17 <keny> well, i would be satisfied if i can get a phone which does 3g, has a keyboard and a great touchscreen and the OS is as free as android is except for those binary blobs :P the only thing close to that is openmoko and i think it is not even half as functional as android :(
Nov 05 17:56:51 <Disconnect> android runs on it
Nov 05 17:56:54 <Disconnect> so thats a neat trick
Nov 05 17:56:55 <keny> after all, all i'd want to do is to put my custom builds and custom libraries and apps on it.
Nov 05 17:57:38 <keny> Disconnect, you mean the freerunner, right?
Nov 05 17:58:11 <Disconnect> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Android
Nov 05 17:58:14 <BHSPitWeb> poetic_folly|G5: how did you manage to get a G/5/ already?! I'm still waiting for leaked photos of the G2 to hit the major tech blogs.
Nov 05 17:59:05 <keny> Disconnect, thanks, did not know that :)
Nov 05 17:59:05 <BHSPitWeb> openmoko = software project;  freerunner = phone
Nov 05 17:59:07 <poetic_folly|G5> lol, BHSPitWeb, my G5 is old. as in, G5, not Intel. ;)
Nov 05 17:59:37 <keny> the bad thing about the freerunner is that it is not even 3G capable, as far as i know of
Nov 05 18:00:35 <Disconnect> thats one bad thing certainly
Nov 05 18:01:20 <og01> anybody know why us brits get a lower revision of the os and unimplemented features? and if or when a patch will be distrobuted to resolve this?
Nov 05 18:01:33 <gdsx> BHSPitWeb: the G2 hardware has already been announced: http://tinyurl.com/co4py
Nov 05 18:01:38 <wastrel> had to make room for that pound symbol
Nov 05 18:02:07 <gdsx> og01: the revisions between the UK and US branches aren't really comparable, numerically
Nov 05 18:02:08 <romainguy__> obra: you don't have a lower revision
Nov 05 18:02:14 <romainguy__> you have TC5 RCx
Nov 05 18:02:16 <RyeBrye> rebuilding the dictionary is hard. especially if you do it in colour.
Nov 05 18:02:20 <romainguy__> the US have TC4 RCx
Nov 05 18:02:37 <romainguy__> and what unimplemented features are you talking about?
Nov 05 18:02:40 <Chainfire> heya AstainHellbring
Nov 05 18:02:47 <AstainHellbring> hi
Nov 05 18:02:53 <og01> well mainly multiprotocol chat
Nov 05 18:03:20 <romainguy__> ah that's probably because of agreements with the missing chat networks
Nov 05 18:03:24 <romainguy__> it's up to the carrier, not Google
Nov 05 18:03:29 <og01> i was running on the presumtion of be 21ish release candidate behind
Nov 05 18:03:36 <romainguy__> so ask T-Mobile UK :)
Nov 05 18:03:37 <BHSPitWeb> the freerunner is one of those things you'd expect to see on gadgetfun, not in a phone store
Nov 05 18:03:46 <gdsx> og01: yeah, that presumption is incorrect :o)
Nov 05 18:03:50 <BHSPitWeb> maybe for making cell-network-compatible robots
Nov 05 18:04:06 <andyross> The carrier put limitations on chat protocols?  Sigh.
Nov 05 18:04:39 <romainguy__> og01: the UK build is actually more recent than the US builds
Nov 05 18:04:39 <romainguy__> but there are differences (like the chat networks) because of legal thingies
Nov 05 18:04:39 <romainguy__> I guess there's no Amazon MP3 store eithr in the UK build?
Nov 05 18:04:39 <romainguy__> either
Nov 05 18:04:58 <og01> correct
Nov 05 18:05:25 <romainguy__> andyross: no, the carrier does not put limitations
Nov 05 18:05:44 <romainguy__> andyross: but you can't just get on Microsoft's Messenger network without agreements
Nov 05 18:05:47 <og01> couldnt i just uncomment the code for the other protocols?
Nov 05 18:05:57 <og01> i mean the codes been released hasnt it?
Nov 05 18:05:58 <romainguy__> og01: lol, that's not how it works
Nov 05 18:06:34 <og01> romainguy__: hy not?
Nov 05 18:06:38 <thoraxe> hmm... so the wishlist right now is for flash, vpn, and data-based AIM
Nov 05 18:06:44 <og01> *why
Nov 05 18:06:49 <thoraxe> and some cooler games
Nov 05 18:06:49 <thoraxe> lol
Nov 05 18:06:54 <romainguy__> thoraxe: AIM is data based :)
Nov 05 18:07:10 <og01> its just a client?
Nov 05 18:07:12 <wastrel> i want a good todo/organizer app.  an offline html reader, an ebook reader
Nov 05 18:07:16 <RyeBrye> data-based aim that doesn't charge per message I think is what he mant
Nov 05 18:07:31 <romainguy__> RyeBrye: yeah I know :)
Nov 05 18:07:35 <og01> couldnt i atleast take that code and repackage it into another app?
Nov 05 18:07:44 <RyeBrye> Maybe one that paid you per message/
Nov 05 18:08:15 <gdsx> og01: the AIM, YM, and MSN clients have not been open-sourced precisely because they contain proprietary code
Nov 05 18:08:23 <gdsx> og01: (well, gtalk also)
Nov 05 18:08:36 <thoraxe> romainguy__: i was told it was sms based?  why does it disconnect all the time and not notify
Nov 05 18:08:42 <RyeBrye> I haven't looked yet - but is the browser replaceable? I don't want to replace webkit, but there are a couple of features I assume are either missing or I am too dumb to find them - like "find on page"
Nov 05 18:08:57 <og01> gdsx: well that would prevent me :p
Nov 05 18:09:11 <Disconnect> im+
Nov 05 18:09:28 <og01> Disconnect: sucks and costs
Nov 05 18:09:32 <Disconnect> is out there. its commercial but it should work fine. (it was not bad on the s60 and bb, can't imagine its that bad on the android)
Nov 05 18:09:55 <og01> doesnt have good review on the market
Nov 05 18:10:06 <thoraxe> i'm really happy with the aim client otherwise... it just doesn't stay connected.  i could live with that if it told me it was disconnected, but it doesn't even do that
Nov 05 18:10:12 <wastrel> i still need to move my passwords into a pwsafe db
Nov 05 18:10:18 <gdsx> thoraxe: and no, it's not SMS-based
Nov 05 18:10:19 <wastrel> :p lot of work that will be
Nov 05 18:10:48 <gdsx> thoraxe: T-Mobile decided to charge for them as if they were SMS messages, but the protocol doesn't use SMS as a transport or anything
Nov 05 18:11:06 <RyeBrye> which is really nice of T-Mobile
Nov 05 18:11:14 <og01> hmm well i'll have to wait for an open one to be written
Nov 05 18:11:15 * RyeBrye will be sure to send them a christmas card
Nov 05 18:11:19 <Disconnect> tmobile is -aching- to get an outrageous-sms-charges lawsuit..
Nov 05 18:11:35 <Disconnect> og01: use the j2merunner and your favorite j2me chat app
Nov 05 18:11:39 <BHSPitWeb> someone needs to make a libpurple client
Nov 05 18:12:05 <og01> or for myself to learn enough java/android api
Nov 05 18:12:11 <gdsx> og01: the problem you get with running the client purely client-side is that you bounce like crazy
Nov 05 18:12:16 <thoraxe> gdsx: i don't really care as long as it gets fixed to work right :P
Nov 05 18:12:25 <andyross> Wait wait wait: TMO is *charging* for XMPP messages on the phone?!
Nov 05 18:12:38 <gdsx> andyross: where'd you come up with that?
Nov 05 18:12:39 <thoraxe> or if you're not going to bother to notify me that you disconnected, actually try to reconnect
Nov 05 18:12:46 <unix_lappy> andyross: uhh, how could they?
Nov 05 18:12:48 <og01> Disconnect: thats an idea
Nov 05 18:13:03 <og01> Disconnect:  but not good os intergration
Nov 05 18:13:03 <Disconnect> andyross: they're charging for aim messages. not xmpp.
Nov 05 18:13:03 <gdsx> og01: especially since the handset switches between wifi and cell data 2 minutes after the screen goes off (when the handset is on wifi)
Nov 05 18:13:08 <andyross> What part did I misunderstand: "gdsx: thoraxe: T-Mobile decided to charge for them as if they were SMS messages, but the protocol doesn't use SMS as a transport or anything"
Nov 05 18:13:16 <Disconnect> andyross: you assumed that meant xmpp
Nov 05 18:13:19 <mmattice> gdsx: why is that?
Nov 05 18:13:19 <gdsx> andyross: you misunderstood the antecedent of "them"
Nov 05 18:13:26 <gdsx> mmattice: power-saving
Nov 05 18:13:27 <andyross> Oh.  That's, ... not much better.  But at least I'm not using AIM
Nov 05 18:13:27 <Disconnect> not sure why you'd do that, actaully
Nov 05 18:13:34 <Disconnect> even gtalk doesn't use xmpp internally
Nov 05 18:13:38 <og01> gdsx:  i see
Nov 05 18:13:38 <thoraxe> i'm on the unlim plan anyway
Nov 05 18:13:41 <BHSPitWeb> AIM is available through XMPP too though
Nov 05 18:13:48 <thoraxe> i just think the aim client is broken in regards to staying connected, tis al
Nov 05 18:13:56 <BHSPitWeb> so just use that XMPP account they provide
Nov 05 18:14:03 <BHSPitWeb> problem solved?
Nov 05 18:14:17 <gdsx> BHSPitWeb: well, you still run into the bouncing problem
Nov 05 18:14:19 <Bonks> does any app exist for checking stocks?
Nov 05 18:14:20 <unix_lappy> can you do aim->xmpp->recieving sms?
Nov 05 18:14:26 <gdsx> (namely, that a phone's IP will tend to change a lot)
Nov 05 18:14:34 <og01> gdsx: i could code arount that i think if i ran a server on my home machine
Nov 05 18:14:39 <BHSPitWeb> unix_lappy: probably not offline...
Nov 05 18:14:57 <thoraxe> gdsx: i think the sidekick people handled that by making the aim client server-side
Nov 05 18:15:06 <mowgli> romainguy: since android market application is not open sourced, does this restrict the marketplace to only G1 users? what should other OEMs planning to build their own android based phone do to enable this feature?
Nov 05 18:15:21 <gdsx> thoraxe: exactly.  Where do you put the server, if you're an average user, though?
Nov 05 18:15:25 <gdsx> og01: ::nod::
Nov 05 18:15:35 <Disconnect> thoraxe: ditto on iphone
Nov 05 18:15:43 <thoraxe> gdsx: danger/t-mobile held the server.
Nov 05 18:15:46 <gdsx> thoraxe: and the answer is that T-mobile takes care of it, and you pay for it (not saying that's how it should be, just that that's how it is)
Nov 05 18:15:54 <thoraxe> Disconnect: the iphone aim client is garbage haha
Nov 05 18:16:01 <thoraxe> is there even one that works?
Nov 05 18:16:06 <mmattice> gdsx: so UMA would have to do funny things?  or do incoming calls never work via UMA on other phones either?
Nov 05 18:16:12 <romainguy> mowgli: I don't know but I'm pretty sure Market will be available on non-G1 phone
Nov 05 18:16:13 <thoraxe> gdsx: i'd pay for it if it meant AIM would actually stay connected and work
Nov 05 18:16:19 <gdsx> mmattice: "UMA"?
Nov 05 18:16:23 <thoraxe> that's why i continued to pay for the sidekick
Nov 05 18:16:24 <Disconnect> thoraxe: there are a bunch in the appstore. plus beeim or whatever it is that is web or app. they mostly work by proxying out in the cloud somewhere
Nov 05 18:16:41 <BHSPitWeb> thoraxe: it's the SDK's fault it can't stay connected.  If you jailbreak, you can run the AIM client in the background.
Nov 05 18:16:45 <gdsx> thoraxe: no, no, that's not what I meant.  I don't know why you're having connectivity issues
Nov 05 18:16:50 <Disconnect> thats great except it will happily accept messages for (x) time after you disappear. which means the other end thinks you are online and messages get dropped..
Nov 05 18:16:54 <og01> gdsx: all makes sense
Nov 05 18:16:54 <thoraxe> i really don't care if the app disconnects.  i don't even care if it doesn't re-connect.  at the very least, at least tell me you disconnected
Nov 05 18:16:58 <gdsx> BHSPitWeb: that's incorrect
Nov 05 18:17:11 <thoraxe> gdsx: i wish i could tell you.  it's not like i can easily figure out why either
Nov 05 18:17:12 <Disconnect> gdsx: uma is fancy talk for roaming voice calls between wifi and cell
Nov 05 18:17:22 <gdsx> BHSPitWeb: the SDK can't do anything about the handset changing IPs
Nov 05 18:17:25 <thoraxe> i just know that i never power off my phone, and often when I go to the IM client I am no longer connected
Nov 05 18:17:42 <thoraxe> and i never get anything in my notification tray that tells me i got disconnected
Nov 05 18:17:49 <og01> gdsx:  i think an adapter bitlbee server would be a good place to start!
Nov 05 18:17:59 <Disconnect> thoraxe: it probably gets killed off by the system. part of the lifecycle thing that sucks
Nov 05 18:18:01 <gdsx> thoraxe: yeah, dunno unfortunately
Nov 05 18:18:02 <spikebike> IM -gtalk seems pretty good about staying connected
Nov 05 18:18:25 <BHSPitWeb> gdsx: I read his problem as not being able to do other things alongside it
Nov 05 18:18:25 <og01> and a client for it on the phone
Nov 05 18:18:26 <spikebike> < gdsx> thoraxe: T-Mobile decided to charge for them as if they were SMS  messages
Nov 05 18:18:30 <gdsx> spikebike: gtalk is special
Nov 05 18:18:31 <spikebike> gdsx what is them?
Nov 05 18:18:40 <gdsx> spikebike: AIM/YM/MSN IMs
Nov 05 18:18:41 <BHSPitWeb> spikebike: aim messages
Nov 05 18:18:45 <mowgli> romainguy: If a non-oha member is trying to build their own product based of android the only source they have is the open source tree which is missing a lot of stuff what G1 has. Agreed that youtube and Maps are proprietary. But what  abt other apps like marketplace. How would they go abt getting this feature?
Nov 05 18:18:47 <BHSPitWeb> what he said.
Nov 05 18:19:00 <spikebike> oh, wow, I had no idea... how evil
Nov 05 18:19:06 <thoraxe> Disconnect: lifecycle?
Nov 05 18:19:14 <keny> how do other IM clients handle the problem of changing IPs, like gtalk ?
Nov 05 18:19:42 <romainguy> mowgli: ask Google?
Nov 05 18:19:56 <spikebike> so I'll stick to gtalk for high traffic stuff
Nov 05 18:19:56 <Disconnect> keny: server-side support
Nov 05 18:20:02 <og01> gdsx: thanks for your time, most insightful
Nov 05 18:20:11 <gdsx> og01: np
Nov 05 18:20:25 <languish> spikebike, it's because gtalk uses a different protocol
Nov 05 18:20:42 <keny> Disconnect, how does the gtalk server know that tmobile decided to change a user's ip address? i dont understand
Nov 05 18:20:43 <spikebike> can't wait for gtalk to support sms
Nov 05 18:20:52 <BHSPitWeb> romainguy: awesome;  the app is at their mercy, and the won't allow you to create a replacement.  Yay freedom! :)
Nov 05 18:20:59 <BHSPitWeb> s/the/they/
Nov 05 18:20:59 <infobot> BHSPitWeb meant: romainguy: awesome;  they app is at their mercy, and the won't allow you to create a replacement.  Yay freedom! :)
Nov 05 18:21:03 <languish> if the other IM's were adapted to use that protocol, then they too would have the benefits gtalk does, I think.
Nov 05 18:21:05 <Disconnect> keny: connection drops, gtalk waits (x) time to see if the device will reconnect before marking offline.
Nov 05 18:21:15 <romainguy> BHSPitWeb: you can write your own market place if you want
Nov 05 18:21:20 <mowgli> romainguy: can someone from google present in this IRC answer that?
Nov 05 18:21:21 <romainguy> look at SlideME
Nov 05 18:21:28 <jasta> but you cant distribute it on the android market ;)
Nov 05 18:21:29 <jasta> hehe
Nov 05 18:21:30 <vol> you can write your own marketplace, you just can't sell it through marketplace
Nov 05 18:21:31 <romainguy> mowgli: I'm from Google :p
Nov 05 18:21:34 <BHSPitWeb> stupid infobot, honoring my bad regexes.
Nov 05 18:21:42 <jasta> vol: erm, no.  the marketplace tos says no marketplace apps
Nov 05 18:21:47 <mowgli> romainguy: thats what i though :)
Nov 05 18:21:58 <mowgli> thats why i directed the question to you
Nov 05 18:22:02 <vol> isn't that what I said?
Nov 05 18:22:09 <romainguy> mowgli: ask morrildl or jasonchen
Nov 05 18:22:14 <vol> I guess s/sell/offer/
Nov 05 18:22:17 <jasta> vol: sorry, totally misread
Nov 05 18:22:22 <Disconnect> you can't distribute it on market, you can't use the installation api that market does (sure, working on it, whatever, i believe you, talk to me when its in handsets...) marketplace is a -very- unlevel playing field
Nov 05 18:22:30 <keny> Disconnect, i see. So the phone does a lot of connecting/disconnecting while "being online"... didn't know that :)
Nov 05 18:22:54 <languish> You can put an app store app on your websites for others to download and install, then they can use your app store app. you just cannot put your app store app in the "Android Market App" for download.
Nov 05 18:23:00 <mowgli> romainguy: sure will do.
Nov 05 18:23:22 <Disconnect> keny; also, keepalive packets are your friend. send NOOP periodically (or frequent status updates w/ no changed info) helps keep you on the same ip
Nov 05 18:23:36 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: when has mobile ever been a level playing field in the US?
Nov 05 18:24:12 <languish> google's market, is like microsofts internet explorer. it "comes with" but you can still choose your own by downloading from elsewhere.
Nov 05 18:24:15 <gdsx> keny: also, the gtalk stuff is used for metadata-type stuff, so it's used a lot more frequently than you might think
Nov 05 18:24:18 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: "its open and everyone has the same permissions. except for some apps are special. not jsut core apps and telco apps.."
Nov 05 18:25:28 <unix_lappy> is it the android marketplace or the Tmobile marketplace?
Nov 05 18:25:36 <gdsx> :o(
Nov 05 18:25:42 <gdsx> RIP Michael Crichton
Nov 05 18:26:27 <thoraxe> michael crichton died?
Nov 05 18:26:36 <keny> gdsx, metadata about stuff related your google account?
Nov 05 18:27:38 <languish> the Android Market on the G1, is not t-mobiles.
Nov 05 18:27:40 <gdsx> keny: yeah, so email tickles, IM stuff, other things
Nov 05 18:27:45 <languish> google manages it
Nov 05 18:27:46 <keny> i see
Nov 05 18:28:04 <Dougie187> Did anyone run out and get the Touch HD yet?
Nov 05 18:28:19 <languish> Dougie187, why? no keyboard :)
Nov 05 18:28:36 <waldo_> crichton's is in fact dead.
Nov 05 18:28:54 <Dougie187> languish: its still an awesome looking phone... but i don't think it has wifi either..
Nov 05 18:29:04 <languish> heh
Nov 05 18:29:08 <Dougie187> but i may be thinking of the touch diamond
Nov 05 18:29:14 <Dougie187> and its really expensive.
Nov 05 18:29:14 <Dougie187> http://www.devicewire.co.uk/htc-touch-hd
Nov 05 18:29:20 <Dougie187> only in the uk as well
Nov 05 18:29:25 <languish> nod
Nov 05 18:29:39 <keny> anyone tested any device with haptic keyboard ? i wonder how the feel of typing on one of those is like.
Nov 05 18:29:46 <Disconnect> Dougie187: erm, every non-subsidized phone is really expensive. how bad is 'really expensive' in this case?
Nov 05 18:29:57 <Dougie187> like 800
Nov 05 18:30:04 <languish> that's not bad
Nov 05 18:30:05 <Dougie187> twice what the G1 is.
Nov 05 18:30:22 <keny> Dougie187, yeah, that's what i would call really expensive, too :(
Nov 05 18:30:38 <languish> the xperia is like $1000
Nov 05 18:30:42 <languish> though it's coming down
Nov 05 18:30:45 <Dougie187> languish: i guess not bad when you compare to the N85, but think about features...
Nov 05 18:30:49 <keny> i recently put my eyes on the htc touch pro a.k.a htc raphael, but it's that sort of 'very expensive' too. :(
Nov 05 18:31:02 <Dougie187> the touch pro is awesome looking though
Nov 05 18:31:07 <Dougie187> that is one phone i would jump all over.
Nov 05 18:31:16 <Dougie187> just throw some android love its way
Nov 05 18:31:46 <languish> yeah I'm waiting fot either the htc touch pro t-monile version (MDA Vario IV)  or a better android ddevice. not necessarily the "G2"
Nov 05 18:32:00 <languish> *for
Nov 05 18:32:39 <Disconnect> Dougie187: most phones tend to be $600-$900 so thats not bad at all
Nov 05 18:32:42 <keny> Dougie187, exactly :) throw android in and i'd jump in.
Nov 05 18:32:48 <languish> Until them I'm taking the G1 rollercoaster
Nov 05 18:32:50 <RyeBrye> Is TC4 not open source? my build is saying BUILD_ID=TC3
Nov 05 18:32:52 <Disconnect> e90 in the usa was $1200 at one point (thanks dell)
Nov 05 18:33:00 <Dougie187> Disconnect: but what features do they contain?
Nov 05 18:33:19 <Dougie187> really, the only thing that is awesome about the Touch HD is the whole HD part... other than that its mainly lacking features.
Nov 05 18:33:52 <Disconnect> Dougie187: similar to g1, only with working software :) e90 is s60fp3 unfolding candybar with keyboard, dual-display (widescreen inside) wifi etc.
Nov 05 18:34:02 <languish> touch HD with features would be some insane heat-producing battery monster
Nov 05 18:34:41 <jasta> hehe, i have become completely disinterested in reading android news sites since i got my g1 :)
Nov 05 18:34:50 <languish> heh
Nov 05 18:35:05 <bloo> lol
Nov 05 18:35:05 <languish> well, sitting "in here" you don't need the news sites. the news is made here mostly
Nov 05 18:35:11 <bloo> theres no new  android news
Nov 05 18:35:24 <bloo> phonewise at least
Nov 05 18:35:33 <languish> some forums are good to keep tabs on
Nov 05 18:35:45 <romainguy> RyeBrye: you have tc4, tc3 is the name of the branch
Nov 05 18:35:55 <bloo> i just wanna make some im not an idiot, does anyone have their G1 set up so when you receive a text message the screen turns on?
Nov 05 18:36:04 <bloo> make "sure" not some
Nov 05 18:36:34 <languish> bloo, if it's plugged in to charge and the screens off, you'll get an indicator light
Nov 05 18:36:52 <languish> it doesn't necessarily have to turn on the screen
Nov 05 18:36:58 * Disconnect thought it lit the backlight while it was beeping
Nov 05 18:37:00 <languish> that's what the indicator's for
Nov 05 18:37:04 <gdsx> languish: you should get an indicator if you have _any_ new notification that happens
Nov 05 18:37:11 <gdsx> like a missed call, also
Nov 05 18:37:15 <languish> nod
Nov 05 18:37:16 <bloo> lang, so your saying you can make it turn on the screen?
Nov 05 18:37:22 <languish> i wasn't being expansive enough :)
Nov 05 18:37:49 <languish> bloo, dunno, haven't looked
Nov 05 18:38:08 <bloo> ok cause im making software to do that, but i swear i heard someone mention that its already doable
Nov 05 18:38:44 <languish> i don't see it in sound & display settings
Nov 05 18:38:52 <languish> maybe through anycut?
Nov 05 18:40:42 <languish> bloo, they might have been talking about the option to keep the screen on while being charged?
Nov 05 18:40:49 <bloo> oh maybe
Nov 05 18:41:08 <languish> which isn't the same thing as activating the screen when the phone rings
Nov 05 18:41:26 <Disconnect> i thought it did it automatically
Nov 05 18:41:30 <zhobbs> is there anyway to require a password to run an executable? Would be nice to put a password on /system/bin/su for those that copied /system/bin/sh to /system/bin/su ?
Nov 05 18:41:50 <Disconnect> at least, while it was charging the other night i'm pretty sure it lit up when i got paged. but i wasn't 100% awake.
Nov 05 18:41:57 <Disconnect> zhobbs: ...no.
Nov 05 18:42:31 <languish> i'm testing it now
Nov 05 18:42:36 <languish> phone's charhging
Nov 05 18:42:41 <languish> yes screen comes on when called
Nov 05 18:42:54 <bloo> what about sms'ed?
Nov 05 18:42:55 <Disconnect> ok what about incoming sms?
Nov 05 18:43:11 <languish> testing one minute
Nov 05 18:43:18 <jasta> zhobbs: hey, do you handle lowering notification sound volume when using your music app?
Nov 05 18:43:39 <jasta> it scared the shit out of me the first time i was cruising down the freeway and a new e-mail sound came through really loud on my car stereo speakers
Nov 05 18:43:54 <zhobbs> jasta: nope
Nov 05 18:44:17 <zhobbs> jasta: and when music is playing the volume controls just control music volume
Nov 05 18:44:28 <jasta> i know, i meant automatically in your app
Nov 05 18:45:03 <zhobbs> interesting idea, but no I don't
Nov 05 18:45:03 <mmattice> gdsx: you were looking for interface nit-picks earlier?  how about the 'x days ago' on calls and messages instead of timestamps, or a percentage instead of the half full battery
Nov 05 18:45:56 <jasta> zhobbs: i typically have my notification volumes all the way up (they are too quiet otherwise)
Nov 05 18:46:22 <jasta> but i keep the music volume somewhat low because when i plug it into my car i want to normalize the volume with the equalizer in the car
Nov 05 18:46:38 <jasta> so while its hooked up, if i get a notification, the volume is so loud it shakes my speakers and damn near made me go deaf
Nov 05 18:46:50 <zhobbs> jasta: would have to request more permissions for that...and would definitely have to be configurable
Nov 05 18:46:57 <jasta> so i think a good feature in music players would be to temporarily change notification volumes to equal music volume
Nov 05 18:47:12 <jasta> so that when notifications come in they are the volume that you expect
Nov 05 18:47:22 <bloo> jasta, great idea!
Nov 05 18:47:29 <languish> ok SMS, screen does not light up, and the indicator light does NOT bliok when being charged, only audio alert
Nov 05 18:47:38 <languish> *blink
Nov 05 18:47:38 <andyross> Another interface nit: how about a more explicit "Dial" button in the contacts screen?  It's very, very easy to accidentally call someone while setting up your contacts list.  The screen looks like the settings window, but clicking on the number is an active, public action.
Nov 05 18:47:58 <bloo> lang, my plan is for this app to open the screen and unlock on sms recieved
Nov 05 18:47:58 <Disconnect> jasta: lol
Nov 05 18:48:05 <mmattice> andyross: yeah, I'll second that one
Nov 05 18:48:06 <RyeBrye> I'm trying to build the sdk / platform - here's my local_manifests.xml in .repo: http://pastebin.com/d7742e74f here's my buildspec.mk in build:  http://pastebin.com/d2dfcb668 and here's the error I'm getting when I try to run make: http://pastebin.com/d466acbc0
Nov 05 18:48:09 <languish> bloo nod
Nov 05 18:48:22 <bloo> and so far i got it! but i cant figure out how to relock the screen
Nov 05 18:48:25 <jasta> zhobbs: just not sure how to do this off the top of my head...hmm, i'll look into it.
Nov 05 18:48:45 <Disconnect> andyross: yah
Nov 05 18:48:48 <Disconnect> open a ticket?
Nov 05 18:48:54 <bloo> so im going to only turn the screen on when the device is probably sitting on a desk based on sensor input, hows that sound?
Nov 05 18:49:12 <zhobbs> jasta: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/media/AudioManager.html#adjustStreamVolume(int, int, int)
Nov 05 18:49:13 <ttuttle> bloo: What are you writing?
Nov 05 18:49:14 <RyeBrye> Is there something obvious I'm missing? I've got the project path in my local_manifest for the htc dream, and I've got the buildspec set up the way it should be (I think) - but I'm not sure why I'm getting the error?
Nov 05 18:49:18 <mattgyver83> Im trying to move a file from my SD card into the /etc/ folder.  The only way i can find this possible is through a telnet session.  When trying to move the file i get a 'Failed on '<directory>' - Cross-device link.  Anyone know what that means?
Nov 05 18:49:24 <languish> bloo  mEndcallBehavior=0x2 ?
Nov 05 18:49:37 <Disconnect> mattgyver83: built in mv sucks. use busybox.
Nov 05 18:49:48 <mattgyver83> Thanks.
Nov 05 18:49:56 <zhobbs> jasta: or really: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/media/AudioManager.html#setStreamVolume(int, int, int)
Nov 05 18:50:22 <Disconnect> jasta: fyi i think locale could do that for you
Nov 05 18:50:34 <Disconnect> maybe not tho, actually. not sure it does notification volume
Nov 05 18:50:42 <zhobbs> jasta: requires android.permission.MODIFY_AUDIO_SETTINGS
Nov 05 18:50:53 <RyeBrye> swetland around?
Nov 05 18:50:57 <Dougie187> Disconnect: does locale change volumes when other apps are running?
Nov 05 18:51:24 <jasta> zhobbs: excellent, thanks
Nov 05 18:51:26 <Disconnect> you'd ahve to detect based on  time and/or location i think
Nov 05 18:51:40 <Dougie187> Disconnect: then i don't think thats quite what hes looking for.
Nov 05 18:51:49 <jasta> zhobbs: i think its reasonable for a music player to ask for that permission as well.  i dont think any red flags would go up :)
Nov 05 18:52:26 <languish> when bluetooth functionality is better supported, it'll be nice for location-aware apps to also recognize bluetooth range
Nov 05 18:52:42 <languish> so enable/disable stuff when near car
Nov 05 18:52:50 <bloo> lang, oooo i like that
Nov 05 18:53:09 <languish> because the car isn't stationary, so setting a gps location for it .. silly
Nov 05 18:53:38 <zhobbs> jasta: nope...seems reasonable. You don't need it generally, because you can change the volume via the MediaPlayer without that permission
Nov 05 18:53:46 <languish> there are also non-car uses, and bluetooth will use less battery.. so "home" ..
Nov 05 18:54:04 <languish> err less battery than GPS
Nov 05 18:54:22 <languish> and bluetooth can work indoors, whereas gps doesn't
Nov 05 18:55:17 <jeld> anyone jailbroken their G1 already?
Nov 05 18:55:20 <RyeBrye> Anyone here know the ins-and-outs of the android sdk build system?
Nov 05 18:55:23 <languish> proximity, that's the word I was looking for
Nov 05 18:55:31 <languish> bluetooth proximity events
Nov 05 18:55:55 <vol> jeld: no, why would I.
Nov 05 18:56:03 <vol> I can't think of something I can't already do with it
Nov 05 18:56:16 <vol> at least that rooting my device would really solve
Nov 05 18:56:56 <meshuga> jeld: and its been broken already
Nov 05 18:57:28 <meshuga> local root does seem kind of pointless
Nov 05 18:57:44 <RyeBrye> local root is good for blinking your LEDs
Nov 05 18:57:49 <jasta> hardly.  you can download /system.
Nov 05 18:57:55 * vol winks at RyeBrye
Nov 05 18:58:10 <vol> I guess rooting yourself is great if you plan on really hacking with the system
Nov 05 18:58:12 * RyeBrye blinks back in blue and then in orange, and then in blue again
Nov 05 18:58:28 <RyeBrye> jasta - everything in /system is in the OTA update.zip
Nov 05 18:58:44 <RyeBrye> since... the /system is completely wiped out and replaced by every OTA update - that kind of has to be the case
Nov 05 18:59:07 <jasta> i didnt know you could download the OTA update?
Nov 05 18:59:15 <RyeBrye> Yeah
Nov 05 18:59:15 <RyeBrye> well
Nov 05 18:59:29 <RyeBrye> they don't exactly publish the URL - but it was sniffed out pretty easily and posted
Nov 05 18:59:44 <RyeBrye> if you look on XDA forums for the sdcard update there are a few threads on it
Nov 05 19:00:25 <jasta> interesting
Nov 05 19:00:30 <jasta> i must admit, i'm fine letting other people do this work :)
Nov 05 19:00:48 <jasta> i'd much rather hack on things i can actually use right now :)
Nov 05 19:01:44 <RyeBrye> Is the msm7k in the sdk build broken right now?
Nov 05 19:02:55 <RyeBrye> also... if I set TARGET_PRODUCT := dream in my buildspec.mk - should it still read: TARGET_PRODUCT=generic when it's doing the build, or am I doing something wrong?
Nov 05 19:07:01 <jt436> has anyone seen this in logcat, 11-05 11:05:16.780: WARN/GoogleHttpClient(14591): Blocked by block_crash_reports: http://android.clients.google.com/crash
Nov 05 19:07:59 <bloo> booo
Nov 05 19:08:05 <bloo> someone donated $10 to me
Nov 05 19:08:07 <bloo> and then canceled it
Nov 05 19:08:12 <d0nets> hey
Nov 05 19:08:16 <d0nets> how do i svn this source?
Nov 05 19:08:17 <d0nets> http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/svn/Tuner/trunk/
Nov 05 19:08:46 <zhobbs> bloo: what project where they donating towards?
Nov 05 19:09:19 <bloo> dgMoney
Nov 05 19:09:24 <bloo> my expense tracker
Nov 05 19:09:54 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 05 19:10:01 <bloo> i got all excited
Nov 05 19:10:04 <bloo> and then my dreams were crushed
Nov 05 19:10:11 <benley> your drums were crushed?
Nov 05 19:10:21 <Disconnect> they went to track it and realized it was $10 they could keep
Nov 05 19:10:28 <bloo> lol :)
Nov 05 19:10:30 * benley has been playing rockband for the past hour :)
Nov 05 19:10:33 <cworth> RyeBrye: But are there things there are locked down by signatures?
Nov 05 19:10:57 <bloo> i think i broke the sats for my app
Nov 05 19:11:16 <bloo> the dev console has said 0 downloads and installs and ratings for the past 4 days
Nov 05 19:11:27 <bloo> and the market shows < 50 downloads
Nov 05 19:11:30 <bloo> and 21 ratings
Nov 05 19:11:45 <bloo> and before this version, i had like 900 downloads a day
Nov 05 19:11:53 <bloo> and it took like that many to get 20 ratings
Nov 05 19:12:07 <brown10101> guys im having trouble with PasswordTransformationMethod(), it takes time to replace the textfield text by dots, while it doesnt relace I can see the pass characters...is anyone having the same problem or its just me?
Nov 05 19:12:45 <mmattice> they pause so you can tell you've typed the right thing
Nov 05 19:13:03 <bloo> brown, theres an option to turn that off
Nov 05 19:13:10 <bloo> but i think its system wide
Nov 05 19:13:12 <bloo> not application
Nov 05 19:13:27 <brown10101> ahh ...
Nov 05 19:13:42 <bloo> is there a way to get one shot sensor data?
Nov 05 19:14:40 <zhobbs> hehe, from androidcommunity.com "[..] have just found a way to gain root access to root of the T-mobile G1. There apparently is a loop hole in the PTerminal application that grants access."
Nov 05 19:14:53 <zhobbs> damn PTerminal
Nov 05 19:15:25 <ITechJunkie> it's pretty cool
Nov 05 19:15:32 <brown10101> thanx bloo, mmattice !
Nov 05 19:16:18 <Disconnect> zhobbs: yah i saw that. like pterminal did it somehow
Nov 05 19:16:23 <ITechJunkie> Hopefully this will help people port an actual shell on there.
Nov 05 19:16:37 <Disconnect> zhobbs: the bad news is it got reported that way in a bunch of tech blogs too
Nov 05 19:16:50 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: there is a shell for the device
Nov 05 19:16:59 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: Term.apl
Nov 05 19:16:59 <ITechJunkie> pterminal helped... basically you enable telnet daemon through pterminal, telnet in and remount the system
Nov 05 19:17:03 <zhobbs> Term.apk *
Nov 05 19:17:14 <Disconnect> ITechJunkie: yes but term does that too. or adb shell
Nov 05 19:17:42 * Disconnect does appreciate having it explained to him 5 or 6 times though, as if we didn't spend all day yesterday discussing it :)
Nov 05 19:17:45 <ITechJunkie> So how do I use Term.apk? or better yet, would someone mind shooting me a link?
Nov 05 19:17:59 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: http://www.helloandroid.com/files/Term.apk
Nov 05 19:18:08 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: thanks man
Nov 05 19:18:28 <zhobbs> Disconnect: I'm a day behind...I bought fallout 3 yesterday :)
Nov 05 19:18:42 <cworth> ITechJunkie: A real shell would be nice.
Nov 05 19:18:49 <Disconnect> cworth: busybox
Nov 05 19:19:00 <ITechJunkie> so when did that come out? Is that not a real shell?
Nov 05 19:19:13 <ionstorm> is that a real shell?
Nov 05 19:19:14 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: Google created that in house
Nov 05 19:19:17 <Disconnect> ITechJunkie: try using it some time..
Nov 05 19:19:21 <zhobbs> it's in the android git repo
Nov 05 19:19:37 <zhobbs> it uses some private API calls so it can do some stuff that pterminal may not be able to do
Nov 05 19:19:41 <cworth> Disconnect: Is it pre-isntalled? Otherwise, where's a build?
Nov 05 19:19:45 <ITechJunkie> Disconnect: i'm downloading it now
Nov 05 19:19:48 <mattgyver83> disconnect, is there a good tutorial on how to install busybox?
Nov 05 19:19:57 <Disconnect> cworth: google 'busybox android'
Nov 05 19:20:02 <Disconnect> mattgyver83: see above.
Nov 05 19:20:20 <zhobbs> cworth: http://www.helloandroid.com/files/Term.apk , or "make Term" in your android source directory
Nov 05 19:20:44 <zhobbs> oh, you mean busybox
Nov 05 19:21:10 <cworth> Disconnect: I'm still waiting to find an obvious place to read "Here are the things you want to do first with your g1" (aimed at me and the things I want to do of course).
Nov 05 19:21:29 <Disconnect> ...huh?
Nov 05 19:21:43 <cworth> Disconnect: Or aimed at someone like me.
Nov 05 19:21:48 <zhobbs> cworth: run the Market and try out some apps...
Nov 05 19:22:00 <languish> heh my wife's on the treadmill at the gym, gchatting me
Nov 05 19:22:02 <cworth> Disconnect: It's just been lots of searching and disjointed stuff so far.
Nov 05 19:22:03 <Disconnect> for all i know the first thing you want to do with your phone is set it on fire....
Nov 05 19:22:12 <cworth> zhobbs: Not much at all for what I want to do.
Nov 05 19:22:18 <cworth> Disconnect: Sure.
Nov 05 19:22:25 <Disconnect> prolly you want to install k-9 since the built-in imap client sucks
Nov 05 19:23:03 <cworth> Disconnect: Getting a nice, remote shell is definitely step 1.
Nov 05 19:23:22 <zhobbs> cworth: remote shell?
Nov 05 19:23:22 <Disconnect> (sucks as in non-functional. if you don't like the interface you're SOL right now)
Nov 05 19:23:47 <romainguy> Disconnect: I should start counting how many times a day you say the built-in Email client sucks :)
Nov 05 19:24:03 <wastrel> hi i just set up my work email on the imap client
Nov 05 19:24:04 <wastrel> it worked!
Nov 05 19:24:13 <Disconnect> there is basically nothing running on it and its got a weird (bsd-derived i heard) libc so porting is actual porting, not just cross-compiling
Nov 05 19:24:16 <Disconnect> for shell that is
Nov 05 19:24:41 <ITechJunkie> How do I use term.apk? It's installed I just can't find it.
Nov 05 19:24:47 <mattgyver83> Disconnect, would i use the emulated console inside eclipse?
Nov 05 19:24:59 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: shows up as "Terminal Emulator" in my apps list
Nov 05 19:25:06 <cworth> zhobbs: I want to type on a real keyboard---not what's builtin to the g1.
Nov 05 19:25:08 <Disconnect> ITechJunkie: might have to use anycut to create a shortcut
Nov 05 19:25:24 <d0nets> how so i svn this source
Nov 05 19:25:24 <d0nets> http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/Programs/Tuner/trunk
Nov 05 19:25:28 <ITechJunkie> okay, thanks
Nov 05 19:25:41 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: let me know if it doesn't show...I might have posted the wrong APK up there
Nov 05 19:25:42 <Disconnect> cworth: to do what? the shell is a mess. try it out, grab the sdk and use 'adb shell' (or just plug the phone in with usb and use 'adb -d shell'
Nov 05 19:25:52 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: I think I had to change the manifest to add a launcher icon
Nov 05 19:25:59 <d0nets> woops bad link
Nov 05 19:25:59 <d0nets> http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/Programs/browser/Tuner
Nov 05 19:25:59 <cworth> Step 2 is routing my laptop through the phone.
Nov 05 19:26:47 <Disconnect> you don't need a shell for that.
Nov 05 19:27:00 <cworth> Disconnect: Yeah, the weird libc is disappointing.
Nov 05 19:27:16 <bloo> is there any way to get orientation data without SensorManager?
Nov 05 19:27:24 <cworth> Disconnect: I didn't say there was a dependency. Those are just the first two things I'd want to do naturally.
Nov 05 19:27:38 <bloo> or does someone have an idea how to get orientation data instantly, so i dont have to register?
Nov 05 19:27:44 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: yeah its not showing bro, Its not in anycut either
Nov 05 19:27:59 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: ok, let me get the right apk
Nov 05 19:28:19 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: appreciate it
Nov 05 19:28:29 <vol> d0nets: download and install a svn client is step 1.
Nov 05 19:28:42 <d0nets> i have that
Nov 05 19:28:52 <d0nets> next vol?
Nov 05 19:29:17 <vol> ... use it?
Nov 05 19:29:23 <d0nets> i trid
Nov 05 19:29:23 <vol> svn checkout <url>
Nov 05 19:29:28 <d0nets> ok one sec
Nov 05 19:29:29 <andyross> bloo: register the callback in a separate thread that supports a synchronous query interface from other threads?
Nov 05 19:29:31 <vol> figure out how to use svn
Nov 05 19:30:12 <mowgli> RyeBrye: Do you know how the OTA works? I am trying to find the piece of code which does the OTA download and install for patches as well as re updates
Nov 05 19:30:32 <mowgli> firmware updates as well
Nov 05 19:31:11 <andyross> There was some noise made that space for the OTA downloads is pre-reserved, probably in a flash block that isn't mounted anywhere.  You want to be sure when the device boots for its update that you're guaranteed not to lose the thing if the update fails.
Nov 05 19:31:29 <cworth> Step 3 is to figure out which bits are proprietary and to see what can be done with an entirely non-proprietary install (if possible).
Nov 05 19:31:43 <d0nets> vol
Nov 05 19:31:45 <d0nets> http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/Programs/browser/Tuner/trunk
Nov 05 19:31:47 <d0nets> fuck
Nov 05 19:31:47 <cworth> (Though I'd be happy if someone else figured that out first.)
Nov 05 19:31:50 <Disconnect> cworth: are you another 'free human being'?
Nov 05 19:31:50 <d0nets> shit bad paste
Nov 05 19:31:57 <d0nets> svn checkout http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/Programs/browser/Tuner/trunk
Nov 05 19:31:58 <d0nets> svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/Programs/browser/Tuner/trunk'
Nov 05 19:31:58 <d0nets> svn: PROPFIND of '/Programs/browser/Tuner/trunk': 200 OK (http://pauldoo.dyndns.org)
Nov 05 19:32:06 <cworth> Disconnect: I'm not sure what that means.
Nov 05 19:32:08 <spikebike> andy it downloads to /cache
Nov 05 19:32:08 <rami> hello, I bought a G1 handset from ebay. And I am from saudi arabia, its unlocked but can't connect to the mobile network to activate my google account...I basically have a phone that only call emergency calls only....
Nov 05 19:32:09 <d0nets> what link do i use
Nov 05 19:32:09 <bloo> down to 12 megs free on my phone
Nov 05 19:32:10 <bloo> sigh
Nov 05 19:32:15 <vol> d0nets: is that even an svn repo?
Nov 05 19:32:25 <ttuttle> rami: Doesn't sound like it's unlocked.
Nov 05 19:32:29 <ttuttle> rami: How do you know?
Nov 05 19:32:36 <Disconnect> ttuttle: its unlocked its just not activated
Nov 05 19:32:38 <ionstorm> bloo,  I cant wait for an apk on sdcard hack
Nov 05 19:32:46 <ttuttle> Disconnect: The SIM card isn't activated?
Nov 05 19:32:46 <ionstorm> im down to 15 meg as well
Nov 05 19:32:53 <vol> d0nets: I get the same problem.
Nov 05 19:32:54 <d0nets> they are using the trac browser
Nov 05 19:32:55 <d0nets> im not sure
Nov 05 19:32:55 <d0nets> im newb
Nov 05 19:33:02 <spikebike> rami does it show a few bars and an E or 3G for data?
Nov 05 19:33:04 * Disconnect has seen a couple of articles/blobs about this - the phone won't activate (against google, think iphone activation) w/o a working tmob sim
Nov 05 19:33:07 <ionstorm> well I got a hack! for the sdcard, just create a static link
Nov 05 19:33:08 <ionstorm> thats it
Nov 05 19:33:15 <rami> ttuttle, well thats what the ebay vendor told me, plus he gave me this number to insert when I get the "Sim Network Locked" screen
Nov 05 19:33:17 <mowgli> andyross: I dont see an iota of code in the open source which does the OTA thinge. Is this also proprietary and not available in the open source tree?
Nov 05 19:33:19 <cworth> Disconnect: I'm just interested in writing some software really.
Nov 05 19:33:27 <ttuttle> rami: /me thinks this is sketchy.
Nov 05 19:33:27 <ionstorm> apk->sdcard with ln -s
Nov 05 19:33:31 <rami> spikebike, yes it shows bars, but no e or 3g
Nov 05 19:33:31 <ttuttle> rami: Did you try entering the number?
Nov 05 19:33:33 <vol> d0nets: I don't know, ask them?
Nov 05 19:33:36 <vol> http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/Programs/wiki/TracGuide
Nov 05 19:33:39 <vol> read the docs?
Nov 05 19:33:44 <andyross> mowgli: I haven't looked, so I'm not sure.  I wouldn't be surprised.
Nov 05 19:33:45 <spikebike> rami you need a cellular data connection to auth
Nov 05 19:33:46 <cworth> And want to know up front if there's stuff on the device that's going to prevent me from doing things, (in which case my interest in coding goes way down).
Nov 05 19:33:49 <spikebike> you can't use wifi
Nov 05 19:34:05 <rami> Before I entered the number I had no bars....but after I did I got the bars
Nov 05 19:34:09 <ttuttle> ok
Nov 05 19:34:19 <rami> spikebike, this same sim works fine with an iPhone
Nov 05 19:34:22 <ttuttle> Have you checked with your cell provider to make sure they've provisioned you for data?
Nov 05 19:34:44 <Disconnect> ttuttle: seriously, its a g1 software lock. lemme find the url.
Nov 05 19:34:53 <d0nets> i dont see anything about svn
Nov 05 19:35:02 <vol> rami: check and make sure that you're provisioned. I got put on the 7 day free trial instead of the data plan by accident
Nov 05 19:35:06 <ttuttle> Disconnect: If he doesn't have the [E] or [3G] icon, he's not going to be able to activate it.
Nov 05 19:35:09 <vol> the same thing might have happened to you
Nov 05 19:35:10 <rami> ttuttle, data  should be working since it works on an iPhone. Right?
Nov 05 19:35:15 <spikebike> cworth the google APIs are pretty good, not at all like an iphone as far as the restrictions
Nov 05 19:35:17 <ttuttle> rami: Oh... yeah, I guess it should.
Nov 05 19:35:35 <ttuttle> rami: OH
Nov 05 19:35:39 <ttuttle> rami: You need to add the APN.
Nov 05 19:35:43 <rami> I did
Nov 05 19:35:46 <ttuttle> rami: Oh. :-\
Nov 05 19:35:50 <ttuttle> rami: Double-check it.
Nov 05 19:36:18 <RyeBrye> mowgli: I know how the firmware flashes work
Nov 05 19:36:20 <rami> ttuttle, I used this http://www.modmygphone.com/wiki/index.php/Carrier_APN_Settings
Nov 05 19:36:20 <Disconnect> ttuttle: http://www.trendygadget.com/2008/10/27/quick-unlock-g1-android-phone/
Nov 05 19:36:40 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: try that URL again
Nov 05 19:37:13 <Disconnect> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/23/t-mobile-g1-up-and-running-with-no-activation/ too
Nov 05 19:37:13 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Er, that's not a "hack".
Nov 05 19:37:17 <ttuttle> Disconnect: That's how it's designed to work.
Nov 05 19:37:26 <RyeBrye> mowgli: I don't know what does the downloads, but if it comes OTA it saves it to /cache and then once it's downloaded, it will verify that it is signed by one of the key paired to a public key in otacerts.zip - if it does match, then it will write an instruction file in /cache and have the phone reboot in recovery mode
Nov 05 19:37:31 <rami> Disconnect, are these links for my problem?
Nov 05 19:37:42 <Disconnect> ttuttle: i didn't say it was. i said - repeatedly - that he can't get past activation without a tmob sim in it, no matter how many bars he has
Nov 05 19:37:57 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Er, I activated mine with an AT&T SIM.
Nov 05 19:38:01 <RyeBrye> mowgli: in recovery mode, if it sees instructions in the /cache it will then read in that file, verify it against it's own internal (compiled-in) list of keys - and if they validate, it will then apply the patch, format the system, flash the radio, and reboot... etc.
Nov 05 19:38:02 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: okay, did something change?
Nov 05 19:38:04 <ttuttle> Disconnect: And that was with a production build.
Nov 05 19:38:14 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: yeah, I updated that file
Nov 05 19:38:26 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: you might have to uninstall the old one
Nov 05 19:38:29 <rami> I have a tmob sim here with me...but I get no bars on it
Nov 05 19:38:48 <ttuttle> rami: Hmm.
Nov 05 19:38:58 <RyeBrye> mowgli: I just started looking around for the piece that does the "check in" parts - I'm not entirely sure if it is open source, but I think it's related to the DeviceInfoSettings and around there
Nov 05 19:39:02 <mowgli> RyeBrye: Thanks for the info. I could not find the code which does that. I guess the first part you mentioend is done runtime and the secod one happens in bootloder rt?
Nov 05 19:39:09 <ITechJunkie> I can't even find the old one to uninstall lol
Nov 05 19:39:25 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: under settings applications?
Nov 05 19:39:27 <ttuttle> rami: Is it an activated T-Mo sim?
Nov 05 19:39:43 <ITechJunkie> nope
Nov 05 19:39:49 <RyeBrye> mowgli: technically it's not in the bootloader - the HTC bootloader loads linux which then loads the recovery mode. The second part - the flashing - has all its code in the /recovery directory
Nov 05 19:39:50 <rami> I have no idea
Nov 05 19:40:08 <rami> ttuttle, I bought it off E-bay, and it came with a tmobile sim
Nov 05 19:40:17 <Disconnect> rami: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f41/unlocked-g1-does-it-need-to-be-activated-4743/ try booting safe mode (post 5)
Nov 05 19:40:24 <RyeBrye> mowgli: if you look into the recovery, one thing I haven't figured out yet is where the keys.inc file that it includes gets built from, or what the format of it is
Nov 05 19:40:25 <ttuttle> rami: That's unactivated.
Nov 05 19:40:41 <Disconnect> post #10 is the verification that it works
Nov 05 19:40:41 <rami> Disconnect, ok lemme check that
Nov 05 19:40:46 <ttuttle> rami: So you get no bars with your own SIM (which works perfectly, with data, on an iPhone), and no bars with the T-Mo SIM?
Nov 05 19:40:54 <ttuttle> rami: Or, rather you get bars but no data with your own SIM.
Nov 05 19:41:10 <Disconnect> ttuttle: no tmob service in saudi arabia i suspect
Nov 05 19:41:14 <RyeBrye> mowgli: I can see where the keys.inc file in the intermediary files gets built - the one that gets included in the compiled version - but I don't see where it is either generating or pulling that file from
Nov 05 19:41:19 <rami> Tuttle, yes exactly bars but no date
Nov 05 19:41:22 <ionstorm> anyone got sshd autostarting ?
Nov 05 19:41:23 <ttuttle> rami: Hmm.
Nov 05 19:41:30 <ttuttle> rami: And you're *sure* you've got the same APN set up?
Nov 05 19:41:39 <rami> ttuttle, yes
Nov 05 19:41:43 <ttuttle> rami: Hmm.
Nov 05 19:41:46 <ttuttle> rami: That should work.
Nov 05 19:41:51 <ttuttle> rami: That's all the steps I had to follow.
Nov 05 19:42:00 <ttuttle> rami: Although technically I was within T-Mo coverage, but not with a T-Mo SIM.
Nov 05 19:42:48 <rami> ttuttle, well I am in a whole different country
Nov 05 19:43:02 <rami> ttuttle, my carrier is a partner carrier of tmob
Nov 05 19:45:06 <rami> Disconnect, booting into safe mode is not working
Nov 05 19:45:09 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: well... the same thing happened... Whenever I install it the title says "Android System" is that relevant?
Nov 05 19:45:11 <mowgli> RyeBrye: I see a install.p executable in the intermediates
Nov 05 19:46:00 <eldenz> hmm... let me see, could i buy an iPhone with a contract, sell it and import a G1 and use it with my sim and same 3G flat?
Nov 05 19:46:05 <eldenz> ups i was scrolled up
Nov 05 19:46:19 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: type the url into your browser on the phone, it'll download now touch the row that says it's finished and it'll prompt to install
Nov 05 19:46:43 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: that's what i've been doing all along. Should I try it the other way?
Nov 05 19:47:03 <mowgli> RyeBrye: ./recovery/install.c:#include "keys.inc"
Nov 05 19:47:18 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: not sure, you can try ADB
Nov 05 19:47:19 <RyeBrye> mowgli - yes, but where is the keys.inc built is the question. I know it gets included :)
Nov 05 19:47:32 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: I uninstalled mine and reinstalled the new one and it worked ok
Nov 05 19:48:11 <bloo> if it says android system, the mime types on the server are wrong
Nov 05 19:48:19 <bloo> that causes problems with 3g/edge downloads
Nov 05 19:48:23 <bloo> but for some reason wifi is fine
Nov 05 19:48:27 <ttuttle> Heh, /me should provide a service where I will activate people's G1s for them.
Nov 05 19:48:59 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - you familiar with the build process for the sdk / platform stuff?
Nov 05 19:49:14 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: whenever I downloaded the second one there were two files Term.apk and Term-1.apk. I installed Term-1.apk. Is it possible that it was the older file? It was on the bottom of the list.
Nov 05 19:49:33 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: both are the same size
Nov 05 19:49:33 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Not really.
Nov 05 19:49:39 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: And remember, I can't help with the rootage.
Nov 05 19:49:45 <RyeBrye> I'm not needing help with that
Nov 05 19:49:47 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: (Google turned on the mind-control implant :-\)
Nov 05 19:49:51 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Oh, what's up then?
Nov 05 19:49:57 <RyeBrye> I'm trying to build the sdk / platform - here's my local_manifests.xml in .repo: http://pastebin.com/d7742e74f here's my buildspec.mk in build: http://pastebin.com/d2dfcb668 and here's the error I'm getting when I try to run make: http://pastebin.com/d466acbc0
Nov 05 19:49:59 <Disconnect> ITechJunkie: automatic rename
Nov 05 19:50:10 <rami> ttuttle, so what I got a brick phone??
Nov 05 19:50:13 <RyeBrye> Either the msm7k whatever stuff is broken, or I have done some configuration wrong
Nov 05 19:50:21 <ttuttle> rami: I don't think so.
Nov 05 19:50:27 <ttuttle> rami: If you've got bars sometimes it's clearly not bricked.
Nov 05 19:50:27 <bloo> lol
Nov 05 19:50:37 <ITechJunkie> Disconnect: right, but I was asking if I installed the right one.
Nov 05 19:50:39 <ttuttle> rami: I'm just not sure why it's not giving you data service.
Nov 05 19:50:56 <rami> ttuttle, can't I turn on wifi?
Nov 05 19:51:01 <ttuttle> rami: Nope.
Nov 05 19:51:07 <ttuttle> rami: It's designed to require activation over a cell network.
Nov 05 19:51:18 <RyeBrye> Mine came pre-activated
Nov 05 19:51:25 <RyeBrye> but someone had returned it, apparently
Nov 05 19:51:38 <ttuttle> It's possible to deactivate them somehow, I'm sure.
Nov 05 19:51:38 <ITechJunkie> I'll just try the other one and see what happens. Either way, I'm not getting an option to launch after I install after either of them.
Nov 05 19:51:39 <rami> ttuttle, how about safe mode, its not loading in safe mode for me
Nov 05 19:51:54 <ttuttle> rami: How does safe mode work?
Nov 05 19:52:06 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: not sure, maybe try it on the PC with adb
Nov 05 19:52:27 <rami> ttuttle, I don't know it was Disconnect's suggestion...by pressing menu while loading
Nov 05 19:52:33 <languish> wow, local kid just told me his brothers gang gets paid $60 per G1 they steal from people
Nov 05 19:52:35 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie:  this one should show up on your apps list now: http://www.helloandroid.com/files/Term.apk
Nov 05 19:52:53 <spikebike> languish how much per iphone?
Nov 05 19:52:56 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: i'm not sure how to use adb. I've never actually done that.
Nov 05 19:53:01 <vol> $60 is pretty shitty
Nov 05 19:53:08 <vol> since it retails for like $400
Nov 05 19:53:08 <languish> spikebike, they don't steal iphones it seems. he didn't say why
Nov 05 19:53:29 <vol> also, seems a little risky since it has integrated GPS...
Nov 05 19:53:36 <RyeBrye> and GPS Tracker
Nov 05 19:53:36 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: oh ok...do you have the SDK installed?
Nov 05 19:53:42 <spikebike> heh, not really
Nov 05 19:53:47 <spikebike> it's got an off button
Nov 05 19:53:47 <RyeBrye> SMS -> Phone... activate GPS... go beat up thugs...
Nov 05 19:53:51 <languish> vol, yeah.. i'm guessing these are going to "refurbishers" that pass them on through crappy cellular rip off stores
Nov 05 19:53:58 <rami> ttuttle, do MCC and MNC values matter?
Nov 05 19:54:07 <ttuttle> rami: Yes!
Nov 05 19:54:19 <vol> languish: are you familiar with the idea of lojack? :P
Nov 05 19:54:21 <spikebike> and a handy reset to factory defaults
Nov 05 19:54:27 <languish> vol yes :)
Nov 05 19:54:39 <vol> I hope these kids know to take the battery out asap for their sake then
Nov 05 19:54:41 <spikebike> lojack doesn't have an off button by the steering wheel
Nov 05 19:54:49 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: Yeah I do, but be warned that i'm not exactly an experience programmer.
Nov 05 19:54:51 <spikebike> the sad thing is the callular carriers promote this
Nov 05 19:55:03 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: not yet at least.
Nov 05 19:55:05 <spikebike> no reason they shouldn't have an IMEI or whatever it is black list
Nov 05 19:55:08 <languish> i tried to explainit to him, he says they know about the gps tracking already, and supposedly have a way around the imei id'ing too
Nov 05 19:55:16 <rami> ttuttle, I used these for Saudi Arabia (AlJawal) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_network_code#S
Nov 05 19:55:29 <Disconnect> languish: 'way around' as in 'networks don't care'
Nov 05 19:56:05 <languish> Disconnect, if you go to t-mobile with a police report and bug them enough, they'll do it by imei
Nov 05 19:56:12 <dream_kill> to RyeBrye what u try to compile?
Nov 05 19:56:15 <ttuttle> rami: So you used MCC=420 MNC=01?
Nov 05 19:56:31 <RyeBrye> dream_kill - I'm trying to build an image of the htc dream to run in the emulator
Nov 05 19:56:43 <languish> if I knew who his brothers gang was, I'd turn them in
Nov 05 19:56:46 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: I justed tested it from the phone's browser and its working for me
Nov 05 19:56:50 <rami> ttuttle, yes MNC=001 since it only accept 3 digits
Nov 05 19:56:55 <ttuttle> rami: Yeah.
Nov 05 19:56:59 <dream_kill> i see u compile in the mac os
Nov 05 19:57:04 <RyeBrye> dream_kill - from my understanding, I should be able to just add something to my local_manifests.xml, and then set the TARGET_PRODUCT := dream in the buildspec.mk - but it's failing on my build in some other stuff
Nov 05 19:57:06 <dream_kill> what gcc / java u use
Nov 05 19:57:08 <RyeBrye> Ahhh
Nov 05 19:57:14 <RyeBrye> I wonder if my java is back at 1.6
Nov 05 19:57:21 <dream_kill> ;)
Nov 05 19:57:21 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: download from browser, click on it, it'll give security prompt, click "install"
Nov 05 19:57:37 <rami> ttuttle, would calling t-mobile customer service help?
Nov 05 19:57:44 <bloo> anyone play witht the INSTLAL_SHORTCUT permission?
Nov 05 19:57:53 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: okay, you're running the new update right? I'll delete the previous two and try it again.
Nov 05 19:58:05 <Disconnect> languish: afaik tmob still doesn't use the imei blacklist, so it doesn't matter if you convince them its stolen - the tech to apply the list to the network isn't there..
Nov 05 19:58:48 <RyeBrye> dream_kill - javac is (and has been) set at javac 1.5.0_13 and gcc is:  gcc version 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)
Nov 05 19:58:49 <ttuttle> rami: No.
Nov 05 19:58:54 <ttuttle> rami: You're not a T-Mobile customer, are you?
Nov 05 19:58:57 <languish> Disconnect, there have been documented cases where t-mobile has tracked down a phone after a customer went to them with a police report ... some guy blogged about the experience, and they did it by imei
Nov 05 19:59:04 <ttuttle> languish: nice
Nov 05 19:59:10 <languish> they don't blacklist the imei though you're correct about that
Nov 05 19:59:10 <ttuttle> languish: AT&T would probably be like "we don't care".
Nov 05 19:59:11 <spikebike> well
Nov 05 19:59:13 <Disconnect> languish: tracked down is not blacklisting
Nov 05 19:59:21 <ttuttle> languish: Well, if they blacklist it then the criminal will probably throw it out.
Nov 05 19:59:24 <spikebike> knowing where an IMEI is != blacklist it
Nov 05 19:59:33 <rami> ttuttle, well technically I got their SIM card, am assuming that it would work if I were in the States
Nov 05 19:59:34 <languish> ttuttle exactly
Nov 05 19:59:44 <spikebike> ttuttle sure... but he might not steal another one
Nov 05 19:59:46 <ttuttle> rami: Oh, but 1. different network -- they can't help you activate it there
Nov 05 19:59:56 <ttuttle> rami: 2. They'll make you pay for a plan.
Nov 05 20:00:03 <languish> spikebike, yes, he will. refurbishers will resell them anyway
Nov 05 20:00:28 <spikebike> the value will drop if every phone is disconnected within 24 hours
Nov 05 20:00:31 <languish> spike, the only ones who get screwed by a blacklisted imei are usually customers who don't know better
Nov 05 20:00:34 <rami> ttuttle, so the solution is by a ticket to the states, borrow a tmobile sim from a friend, activate it and fly back? LOL
Nov 05 20:00:46 <languish> spikebike, they'd find a way around the blacklist.
Nov 05 20:00:46 <ttuttle> rami: :-(
Nov 05 20:00:57 <ttuttle> rami: I'm not sure what to do.
Nov 05 20:01:05 <wastrel> are you still using one of the default wallpapers?
Nov 05 20:01:12 <ttuttle> wastrel: They're awesome wallpapers ;-)
Nov 05 20:01:15 <Disconnect> you can change the imei on many phones these days, although g1 is prolly not one of them yet
Nov 05 20:01:16 <rami> ttuttle, lol whats worse I bought three!
Nov 05 20:01:24 <ttuttle> rami: Hmm.
Nov 05 20:01:48 <ttuttle> rami: So, remind me... did you enter the unlock code yet?
Nov 05 20:01:51 <languish> spikebike, besides, the carriers wouldn't want the headaches of dealing with false police reports as pranks to get peoples phones turned off, not to mention loss of income
Nov 05 20:02:25 <Disconnect> languish: actually, for the most part the blacklist works -great- in EU
Nov 05 20:02:38 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: now i'm getting and Application install Unsuccessful Error
Nov 05 20:02:39 <languish> it's better to leave the imei alone and track the phone when in use, then track it back to whoever sold it
Nov 05 20:02:51 <rami> yes I entered a 7 digit code...or something like that
Nov 05 20:02:59 <bloo> itechjunkie: try downloading it over wifi
Nov 05 20:03:00 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: Would there be software conflicting with it?
Nov 05 20:03:06 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: yeah, probably has different sig...need to uninstall the old one
Nov 05 20:03:15 <rami> ttuttle, from tmob website they list t-mobile as a partner, shouldn't the sim work here??
Nov 05 20:03:23 <ttuttle> rami: Yes, but the SIM is not activated.
Nov 05 20:03:27 <ttuttle> rami: You are not a T-Mobile customer.
Nov 05 20:03:29 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: should be in "Settings->Applications->Manage Applications->Terminal Emulator->Uninstall"
Nov 05 20:03:31 <ttuttle> rami: (Are you?)
Nov 05 20:03:33 <Disconnect> languish: so its worth thousands of dollars (or more) in effort/equipment/police time to find a $140 phone?
Nov 05 20:03:49 <ttuttle> Disconnect: If it lets you track down a group stealing dozens of them?
Nov 05 20:03:55 <languish> Disconnect, no.. it's worth it to find someone stealing dozens/hundreds of phones
Nov 05 20:03:58 <Disconnect> vs a few bucks to blacklist?
Nov 05 20:03:58 <rami> ttuttle, I really don't know...but when I put the tmob in a SE P910 I get no networks
Nov 05 20:04:08 <rami> ttuttle, so I guess you are right
Nov 05 20:04:08 <ttuttle> rami: Yeah, that's 'cause it's not activated.
Nov 05 20:04:24 <rami> ttuttle, and to activate I need to pay for a contract?
Nov 05 20:04:28 <ttuttle> rami: I'm not sure.
Nov 05 20:04:37 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: There's no Terminal Emulator
Nov 05 20:04:41 <ttuttle> rami: If T-Mo has a prepaid option, that might get you far enough.
Nov 05 20:05:00 <ttuttle> rami: Honestly, if the unlock code worked right, you shouldn't need to do anything.
Nov 05 20:05:13 <languish> Disconnect, and in the USA, if someone fakes a police report, the imei gets blacklisted, of a non-stolen phone.. the legal hassles for t-mobile are high
Nov 05 20:05:16 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: strange
Nov 05 20:05:48 <languish> and yes sure, that person might get busted, but there are plenty of stupid people out there that would do it anyway
Nov 05 20:05:53 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: yeah... When you install it does it say "Android System" at the top or "Terminal Emulator"
Nov 05 20:05:57 <Disconnect> languish: no higher than in EU, and the legal hassles aren't tmob's. the person who filed the fake report gets tmob -and- the phone owner landing on them.
Nov 05 20:05:57 <rami> ttuttle, oh well thanks for your time, I will scour the Internet I guess
Nov 05 20:06:14 <ttuttle> rami: okay
Nov 05 20:06:17 <ttuttle> rami: Good luck.
Nov 05 20:06:22 <languish> Disconnect, like I said.. stupid people.. they don't know or don't care.
Nov 05 20:06:24 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: that may not even matter but i thought i'd ask to put my mind to rest on it
Nov 05 20:06:27 <rami> ttuttle, thanks
Nov 05 20:06:35 <Disconnect> i could report you car stolen too, so quick, we better stop all those cops looking for stolen cars
Nov 05 20:06:43 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: powering off and trying again
Nov 05 20:06:48 <languish> Disconnect, and in the US.. tmo will get sued by the innocent customer
Nov 05 20:06:49 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: "Terminal Emulator"
Nov 05 20:06:53 <Disconnect> seriously.. imei blacklist -works-. and its been working for a long time..
Nov 05 20:07:04 <Disconnect> languish: i'm afraid not, but nice try anyway..
Nov 05 20:07:12 <languish> afraid not of what?
Nov 05 20:07:21 <languish> I'm telling you how it is in tha usa
Nov 05 20:07:29 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: weird, i never saw that on mine. i'll try again and watch closer
Nov 05 20:08:56 <languish> I didn't say the customer would win the lawsuit, I said they would sue. The expense of dealing with additional idiotic lawsuits and bad publicity "tmo turned off my service because my insame ex boyfriend told them to" is enough reason not to use the imei blacklist
Nov 05 20:09:26 <Disconnect> languish: again, no, its not. they aren't going to get sued (successfully anyway) for blocking an imei. whereas you -might- be able to get a class-action together of people who's phones were stolen because tmob did not do evertything in their power to make stolen phones worthless..
Nov 05 20:10:17 <Disconnect> languish: how often do they get sued for that NOW? ..never. but i can call up and with just your name and address change or disable your service without much trouble. esp if you are on a family plan. i only get asked for verification (last-4-SSN etc) about 1 call in 5..
Nov 05 20:10:28 <languish> Disconnect, the class action would fail because tmo has a proven record of following up with law enforcement to track down stolen phones, for the purpose of identifying and stopping crime rings
Nov 05 20:10:39 <Disconnect> languish: got docco on that?
Nov 05 20:10:45 <ttuttle> Disconnect: /me gets asked for last-4-SSN *every* call.
Nov 05 20:10:54 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: Yeah man, not once in the install process does it say "Terminal Emulator"
Nov 05 20:10:54 <Disconnect> anyway i gota  meeting sigh, bbl.
Nov 05 20:10:59 <ttuttle> Disconnect: see ya
Nov 05 20:11:03 <Disconnect> languish: in the meantime you can look up that "proven record" and send me a link
Nov 05 20:11:28 <languish> Disconnect, on my acount, you cannot get away with using last 4 ss$, i have other security in place that t-mobile enforces :)  (alternate password verification)
Nov 05 20:11:39 <languish> ss#
Nov 05 20:11:49 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: you have the "Unknown Sources" checked in settings right?
Nov 05 20:12:30 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: yeah
Nov 05 20:12:58 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: very strange...I guess you should install the SDK and try adb
Nov 05 20:13:16 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: I've tested it here with 2 different phones and it worked :)
Nov 05 20:13:44 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: how do I do that? Thanks for your patients thus far btw
Nov 05 20:14:40 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: *patience
Nov 05 20:14:41 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: d/l and install the SDK, in the tools folder there is an executable "adb", you can run "adb install <apk_file>" to install an apk
Nov 05 20:15:00 <ITechJunkie> okay cool
Nov 05 20:15:04 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: what OS?
Nov 05 20:15:41 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: well i'm running Vista at work but i can switch to Ubuntu if that makes it easier.
Nov 05 20:16:00 <zhobbs> nah, just might need a driver in vista
Nov 05 20:16:24 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware
Nov 05 20:18:26 <wastrel> i need an ebook reader pls
Nov 05 20:18:38 <wastrel> and/or offline html viewer
Nov 05 20:20:13 <jasta> hmm
Nov 05 20:21:23 <unix_lappy> why wouldnt you be able to point the browser at localhost or file://
Nov 05 20:21:53 <languish> Disconnect, for some reason they keep it pretty quiet, but it's been around as far back as 2004, http://www.engadget.com/2004/12/28/the-stolen-gsm-phone-database/
Nov 05 20:22:26 <languish> and yes, by police request they do track the phones
Nov 05 20:23:27 <languish> the only problem is getting a detective willing to pursue it for an individual case.
Nov 05 20:24:13 <languish> (talking to a friend that works as a private consultant in my local police station)
Nov 05 20:25:08 <languish> the roadblock is law enforcement. if you're connected, or important enough, they do it for you. if not, you have to either get lucky, or harass them to do it
Nov 05 20:25:56 <languish> they don't want to spend the time following up with the carrier it seems
Nov 05 20:26:11 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: Vista is picking up my device as a Mass USB Drive. Is that right?
Nov 05 20:26:13 <languish> and often the handsets are found operating outside their jurisdiction
Nov 05 20:27:35 <ttuttle> ITechJunkie: yes
Nov 05 20:27:49 <languish> a stolen phone from nyc, ends up in florida, and the nypd doesn't want the hassles of a) finding out where the phone's operating b) contacting law enforcement in the area to get them to cooperate c) our local DA has to get involed to get a warrant...etc etc
Nov 05 20:27:54 <languish> this is what he's explaining to me
Nov 05 20:27:54 <ITechJunkie> ttuttle: thx
Nov 05 20:28:06 <languish> and why it's such a hassle to get a stolen phone recovered
Nov 05 20:28:18 <languish> but they *CAN* and *DO* do it
Nov 05 20:28:26 <languish> they just don't want to
Nov 05 20:28:55 <ITechJunkie> I tried to run "adb.exe install ..\..\..\Term.apk" and it says "error: device not found"
Nov 05 20:29:15 <languish> ITechJunkie, type adb devices
Nov 05 20:29:21 <languish> see if your g1 shows up
Nov 05 20:29:38 <ITechJunkie> Nope
Nov 05 20:29:45 <languish> that's your problem
Nov 05 20:30:27 <ITechJunkie> languish: how would one go about fixing that?
Nov 05 20:31:03 <Cedric2> Enable USB debugging on your device
Nov 05 20:31:06 <languish> ITechJunkie, settings, application settings, development, usb debugging
Nov 05 20:31:20 <languish> as Cedric2 said..
Nov 05 20:33:27 <Guest77200> Question: Do we need a specific patch, such as for arm, when we compile the gdb server
Nov 05 20:33:56 <ITechJunkie> Cedric2: languish: Thanks guys that did it
Nov 05 20:34:05 <languish> :)
Nov 05 20:34:29 <Cedric2> You're welcome
Nov 05 20:35:02 <languish> I wonder how long before the telnet root results in an app that exploits the phone virally
Nov 05 20:35:31 <languish> if it's not already out there
Nov 05 20:36:18 <jeld> languish, well, you need to install something that will start telnetd
Nov 05 20:36:43 <languish> jeld, yeah I'm sure of the app is listed as something else, people will give it permissions anyway
Nov 05 20:36:59 <languish> law of the average user
Nov 05 20:37:10 <jeld> BTW, does anyone know why the jailbreaking procedure works? I mean, wouldn't telnetd run under the same UID as PTerminal?
Nov 05 20:37:14 <languish> click click... ohno
Nov 05 20:37:15 <jeld> languish, agreed
Nov 05 20:37:35 <brocktice> jeld: If configured properly I suppose it would
Nov 05 20:37:37 <jeld> languish, especially if the app actually pretends to do something semi-useful
Nov 05 20:37:57 <jeld> brocktice, I thought any app installed on android gets its own user
Nov 05 20:38:10 <brocktice> I don't believe telnetd is really within the android environment
Nov 05 20:38:12 <languish> jeld it's a *cough* oversight *cough*
Nov 05 20:38:26 <brocktice> That's all inside the dalvik (or however it's spelled) VM
Nov 05 20:38:41 <brocktice> telnetd is a native binary
Nov 05 20:39:20 <languish> right, the issue before was that the user or dev didn't have root permissions within the vm to do as they pleased
Nov 05 20:39:28 <languish> now they do
Nov 05 20:39:30 <languish> that's all
Nov 05 20:39:53 <languish> there's still a laywer of separation from much of the hardware
Nov 05 20:40:08 <languish> but with this change, it's one step closer to a true jailbreak
Nov 05 20:40:27 <languish> *layer
Nov 05 20:41:31 <jeld> I still don't get it. PTerminal runs as its own user, PTerminal spawns a telnetd process. At which point telnetd becomes UID=0? Is it installed with SUID?
Nov 05 20:41:33 <ITechJunkie> To all who helped me: I finally got Term.apk installed through adb thanks
Nov 05 20:41:36 <brocktice> often lawyers are involved with jailbreaks as well
Nov 05 20:41:53 <languish> :)
Nov 05 20:42:15 <SplasPood> Heh I never thought my pTerminal discovery would be so exciting to everyone
Nov 05 20:42:47 <languish> jeld, seems one app can initiate another, and for whatever reason, telnetd runs as root regardless of pterminal starting it
Nov 05 20:42:47 <languish> SplasPood :)
Nov 05 20:42:53 <brocktice> languish: not close enough to the hardware for a wifi AP bridge eh?
Nov 05 20:43:02 <keny> SplasPood, nice discovery :)
Nov 05 20:43:14 <SplasPood> Thanks
Nov 05 20:43:15 <cworth> Anyone have a writeup for native development targeting the g1?
Nov 05 20:43:17 <languish> brocktice, dunno. I would think we'd need access to the gsm dsp for that
Nov 05 20:43:26 <SplasPood> It seemed so... unhidden that I thought everyone would have already seen it
Nov 05 20:43:33 <tweakt> languish, maybe it's suid root ?
Nov 05 20:43:55 <SplasPood> I was very surprised to find it on slashdot and everywhere else today :)
Nov 05 20:43:56 <brocktice> languish: Not to mention being able to switch the mode of the wifi
Nov 05 20:43:57 <languish> tweakt, *shrug*
Nov 05 20:44:03 <jeld> SplasPood, well, people have been trying to get root on a G1 for two weeks :)
Nov 05 20:44:03 <tweakt> SplasPood: is this documented somewhere?
Nov 05 20:44:09 * languish not an expert, just a gatherer of others info
Nov 05 20:44:15 <SplasPood> tweakt: just in the various forum threads spawned from my original post
Nov 05 20:44:15 <keny> reminds me when i managed got a root shell in my router through the locked-down-shell. it was even easier that this, basically there was a hidden "sh" (oh noes!) command which gave you root :P
Nov 05 20:44:23 <keny> to get*
Nov 05 20:44:39 <languish> tweakt http://ioerror.livejournal.com/495953.html
Nov 05 20:45:23 <ioerror> spearce, how did you find the telnetd thing?
Nov 05 20:45:32 <languish> SplasPood, the funny thing is.. and i even mentioned it in here... was that I was about to try telnet, then decided not to becausde I wanted ssh
Nov 05 20:45:36 <SplasPood> jeld: heh, I presumed when I searched before I posted that I just failed at teh query
Nov 05 20:45:47 <SplasPood> languish: haha thats always the way it happens
Nov 05 20:45:50 * spearce wonders why ioerror is asking him about the telnetd thing
Nov 05 20:45:53 <languish> glad you tried it anyway :)
Nov 05 20:46:07 <SplasPood> spearce: your actions are not showing up properly..
Nov 05 20:46:13 <tweakt> um, so root has no password?? wow
Nov 05 20:46:18 <ioerror> SplasPood, even
Nov 05 20:46:35 <languish> tweakt, users weren't supposed to be able to access a root process
Nov 05 20:46:44 <SplasPood> ioerror: oh hey..  I found pTerminal in the marketyplace the day it was posted
Nov 05 20:46:49 <SplasPood> (troll that pretty hardcore)
Nov 05 20:46:55 <SplasPood> and start doing ls
Nov 05 20:47:00 <SplasPood> first stop was system/bin
Nov 05 20:47:05 <ioerror> i'm really curious how the user and groups system works
Nov 05 20:47:07 <SplasPood> and what jumped out at me but telnetd :)
Nov 05 20:47:09 <ioerror> does anyone know that yet?
Nov 05 20:47:14 <ioerror> SplasPood, i also launched telnetd
Nov 05 20:47:23 <ioerror> but it forked and i didn't think anything of it
Nov 05 20:47:25 <SplasPood> then I did a netstat -an and saw it listening
Nov 05 20:47:27 <ioerror> *whoops*
Nov 05 20:47:28 <SplasPood> yep
Nov 05 20:47:29 <SplasPood> haha
Nov 05 20:47:45 <jeld> tweakt, now we can set root password :)
Nov 05 20:48:33 <RyeBrye> One thing to be aware of - in case you weren't already aware - the OTA updates between versions reformat /system entirely
Nov 05 20:48:57 <ioerror> RyeBrye, where on the file system does the ota update not touch?
Nov 05 20:49:00 <tweakt> why the hell would you want your apps to run as root??
Nov 05 20:49:00 <RyeBrye> so you can't just set up some files on /system and be like "oh, maybe it wont touch this file" - nope... it wipes the whole thing
Nov 05 20:49:14 <RyeBrye> ioerror - /data isn't touched afaik
Nov 05 20:49:26 <RyeBrye> unless you tell it to wipe data
Nov 05 20:49:35 <ioerror> RyeBrye, perhaps a good place to put your backdoor
Nov 05 20:49:44 <RyeBrye> Well... yes - but it's mounted nosuid by default
Nov 05 20:49:59 <languish> tweakt, maybe you don't, but.. you want root access to make system modofications of your choosing.
Nov 05 20:50:15 <tweakt> this is pointless anyhow. native code is non-portable. The only use for this I can see is someone hacking firmware and making hardware do stuff it shouldn't
Nov 05 20:50:24 <languish> tweakt, and the crackers can now use tools to attempt to crack the protected parts of the device
Nov 05 20:50:24 <ioerror> RyeBrye, i get the feeling that all the user data and file system mounting options are something useful
Nov 05 20:50:27 <RyeBrye> wah wah wah
Nov 05 20:50:33 <ioerror> tweakt, native code is portable
Nov 05 20:50:37 <ioerror> you can simply recompile it for different devices
Nov 05 20:50:44 <ioerror> i want iptables on my phone
Nov 05 20:50:49 <ioerror> i want tor on my phone
Nov 05 20:51:02 <ioerror> I'm not going to try to rewrite either in java, why bother?
Nov 05 20:51:20 <cworth> tweakt: If I write native code then it's as portable as I can write it.
Nov 05 20:51:33 <tweakt> ioerror, cworth: true...
Nov 05 20:52:02 <cworth> And "linux on my phone" isn't interesting unless I can write code for it.
Nov 05 20:52:04 <tweakt> yeah I hear that. there are a host of existing apps that would be nice to have. but they won't play nice with the rest of the system... but as far as terminal apps go, yeah I could see the usefulness
Nov 05 20:52:09 <RyeBrye> ioerror - the only thing I can think to do would be to rewrite the recovery flasher to take unsigned images - or images that only YOU sign yourself - and then manually tweak any updates to either modify the init.rc script to mount /data as just plain rw without the suid - which would mean you could just leave an su or something sitting in /data/local/bin to get back root whenever - or do to something else
Nov 05 20:52:27 <languish> tweakt, the real question is, why do you have such an issue with what other people want to do with their own phones, besides being asshats that screw with the network, or create viruses
Nov 05 20:52:45 <cworth> (Granted. It's not "my" phone yet---I'd been waiting to see if it was possible to do native development first---but my wife has gone and bought one now so I'm at least poking around.)
Nov 05 20:52:59 <tweakt> languish: nothing.... (besides being asshats that screw with the network, or create viruses)
Nov 05 20:52:59 <languish> cworth, lol
Nov 05 20:53:03 <tweakt> ;-)
Nov 05 20:53:03 <languish> :)
Nov 05 20:53:25 <languish> screwing with the netwok's bound to happen anyway
Nov 05 20:53:32 <languish> the virus thing, now that'll be an issue
Nov 05 20:53:40 <ioerror> virus?
Nov 05 20:53:41 <tweakt> I guess this is inevitable and it will be interesting to see how it's handled by Android/T-Mobile
Nov 05 20:53:44 <ioerror> muhaha
Nov 05 20:54:08 <ioerror> a man that comes from the windows smart phone world, is a man who worries about viruses on android
Nov 05 20:54:17 <ioerror> RyeBrye, i suspect that the sqlite database isn't messed with on upgrade
Nov 05 20:54:21 <ioerror> but i could be wrong
Nov 05 20:54:31 <ioerror> Your wireless network settings stay too, right?
Nov 05 20:54:33 <RyeBrye> ioerror - where is that stored? isn't it on /data?
Nov 05 20:54:35 <ioerror> that's in a file
Nov 05 20:54:48 <ioerror> RyeBrye, well, if the permissons for mounting are in /data... and we can fix it up now
Nov 05 20:54:58 <ioerror> if the answer is in that database, we can change how /data is mounted
Nov 05 20:54:59 <marcone> "*the* sqlite database"?
Nov 05 20:55:10 <RyeBrye> ioerror - permissions for mounting are set on boot in init.rc
Nov 05 20:55:11 <marcone> there's a whole bunch of sqlite databases on the phone :)
Nov 05 20:55:23 <ioerror> i don't have my phone attached but i thought there was one main database in /
Nov 05 20:55:30 <languish> ioerror, well, with average users now potentially accepting permissions for an app that can access root.. yeah.. it's an issue.  I'm not worried about it on "my" device, but the glut of potential sms/txt spam.. that concerns me
Nov 05 20:55:30 <ioerror> marcone, no doubt there are many
Nov 05 20:55:51 <ioerror> i am curious to see how long it takes someone to make an app that autoroots the phone
Nov 05 20:55:52 <tweakt> I just don't want to see this to turn into a battle... I suspect Google is wiser than do to so.
Nov 05 20:55:56 <ioerror> it should be possible
Nov 05 20:56:04 <languish> ioerror, yeah I mentioned that earlier
Nov 05 20:56:20 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it would be pretty easy - can't you telnet to localhost?
Nov 05 20:56:24 <ioerror> google will release a hacker friendly (you can flash the firmware yourself) phone eventaully
Nov 05 20:56:27 <ioerror> RyeBrye, yes
Nov 05 20:56:45 <RyeBrye> So... yeah... you could write one - but there are better ways to waste your time
Nov 05 20:56:50 <languish> tweakt, google doesn't have a huge issue with it, other than their legal obligations.
Nov 05 20:56:55 <RyeBrye> ioerror - I'll look more, but I'm reasonably sure it specifically says "Formatting /system" etc
Nov 05 20:56:58 <ioerror> if you have a java app on the phone, you can probably open a connection and execute a few comamnds
Nov 05 20:57:05 <ioerror> RyeBrye, ok
Nov 05 20:57:22 <ioerror> RyeBrye, the number one thing to find is how telnetd is magically setuid
Nov 05 20:57:23 <tweakt> languish, right... oh like the FCC an such.
Nov 05 20:57:42 <languish> tweakt, like t-mobile and htc.. their partners in android
Nov 05 20:57:44 <ioerror> if we find that, i suspect it will tell us a lot and will help us to keep local root
Nov 05 20:57:52 <RyeBrye> ioerror - yeah... swetland knows the answr to that but his lips are apparently sealed until they make some kind of announcement or something
Nov 05 20:57:54 <ioerror> tweakt, the fcc doesn't care if you have root on your cell phone
Nov 05 20:57:55 <tweakt> There is a config file for the wireless driver, it's pretty much 100% configurable. You could do nasty things there I suspect.
Nov 05 20:57:56 <languish> or at leat their partners in the g1
Nov 05 20:58:06 <ioerror> i can flash my ten year old nokia to reprogram the IMSI
Nov 05 20:58:27 <tweakt> ioerror, they do if you make the phone start doing things it shouldn't (ie, radios, etc)
Nov 05 20:58:30 <languish> htc doesn't want their firmware cracked, and t-mobile doesn't want so little control of devices on thei network
Nov 05 20:58:31 <RyeBrye> tewakt - no, you can't do nasty things there. this fear is unfounded. you have to hack the radio before you can do nasty things
Nov 05 20:59:09 <ahaberlacho> Also, T-Mobile doesn't want to replace devices, or even deal with the tech support issues, if people brick their devices, or even make subtle changes that cause problems.
Nov 05 20:59:12 <tweakt> RyeBrye, don't you think that will come next? I'm not familiar with other platforms so I'm just speculating obviously
Nov 05 20:59:12 <ioerror> tweakt, i don't think that this is happening and i doubt the fcc cares about people on irc with root on the phone
Nov 05 20:59:16 <languish> RyeBrye, nasty things includes reading a users contacts, uploading said contacts to a db, and sms/txt/email span from said contacts
Nov 05 20:59:23 <languish> so yeah, nasty things can be done
Nov 05 20:59:31 <ioerror> languish, no one is stopped from cracking up htc firmware in ida pro
Nov 05 20:59:31 <tweakt> ioerror, agree 100% on 2nd point
Nov 05 20:59:47 <languish> ioerror, yeah, never saif anyone's being stopped :)
Nov 05 21:00:06 <RyeBrye> HTC's firmware hasn't been cracked yet - this is all in the OS level we're playing aroudn now
Nov 05 21:00:17 <languish> though, for the crackers in here.. i suggest not discussing actually doing the cracking in here, if you live in the USA.. DNCA will get you.
Nov 05 21:00:47 <languish> (using the telnetd root method is not cracking)
Nov 05 21:00:48 <Dougie187> especially since this channel is logged now...
Nov 05 21:00:54 <languish> hahah
Nov 05 21:00:56 <RyeBrye> Languish: tell that to a judge! :)
Nov 05 21:00:57 <languish> "now"
Nov 05 21:01:05 <Dougie187> now all the way back a year or so
Nov 05 21:01:11 <languish> notRyeBrye, lol yeah srsly
Nov 05 21:01:13 <notRyeBrye> yes, because IRC logs are so goign to hold up in court
Nov 05 21:01:43 <languish> RyeBrye, no, but people say/do things that can get them tracked back
Nov 05 21:01:44 <vol> hey, the RIAA's "evidence" in the form of screenshots work...
Nov 05 21:01:50 <RyeBrye> Yeah
Nov 05 21:01:51 <vol> screenshots of IP addresses
Nov 05 21:02:13 <languish> often people are tracked down through their associates more than directly themselves
Nov 05 21:02:28 <jimp> ioerror: I've been trying to figure out how it gets root but had no luck...
Nov 05 21:02:38 <ioerror> jimp, have you explored any of the sqlite databases?
Nov 05 21:02:41 <languish> "oh hi ladidadidodo, how are you?" and ladidadidodo just happens to be easily trackable
Nov 05 21:02:48 <ioerror> i think i'm going to pull them off my phone and start digging through them with python
Nov 05 21:02:53 <jimp> My initial guess was that they only set the euid when calling external apps, and forgot to clear real uid or saved uid.
Nov 05 21:03:04 <ioerror> jimp, curious
Nov 05 21:03:13 <jimp> But that doesn't seem to be the case... when I run p-terminal, ruid+euid+suid+rgid+egid+sgid are all 10040
Nov 05 21:03:19 <ioerror> if that's the case, we can test that by building a small C program that preints getresuid()
Nov 05 21:03:23 <jimp> That's what I did
Nov 05 21:03:24 <ioerror> and then getresgid()
Nov 05 21:03:44 <jimp> (I don't just pull these results out of my ass :)  )
Nov 05 21:03:45 <ioerror> jimp, you did build a program that fetches all of that? awesome
Nov 05 21:03:51 <ioerror> jimp++
Nov 05 21:03:55 <languish> i just think they were laughing their collective asses off over how long it took to be discovered
Nov 05 21:04:00 <languish> hiding in plain sight
Nov 05 21:04:09 <jimp> http://rafb.net/p/IbTDzU66.html
Nov 05 21:04:19 <ioerror> jimp, so i'm thinking it's possibly hard coded
Nov 05 21:04:35 <languish> hey
Nov 05 21:04:43 <languish> have you guys determined which core it runs on?
Nov 05 21:04:43 <RyeBrye> don't we have the source for telnetd that is on the phone?
Nov 05 21:04:51 <ioerror> RyeBrye, yes, of course
Nov 05 21:04:57 <ioerror> RyeBrye, but telnetd isn't special
Nov 05 21:05:00 <RyeBrye> right
Nov 05 21:05:05 <languish> IS there a way to determin which core a process runs on in the g1?
Nov 05 21:05:05 <ioerror> it's the calling context, which apparently is also not special :-/
Nov 05 21:05:25 <RyeBrye> oh - gotcha - you guys are following it up the chain
Nov 05 21:05:30 <jimp> BTW, I tried to build native apps with the android prebuilt toolchain for a while and had no luck.
Nov 05 21:05:39 <cworth> jimp: What are you using for compiling a C program for the g1?
Nov 05 21:05:40 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I gave up on that too
Nov 05 21:05:42 <jimp> Super-easy method:    apt-get install emdebian-tools ; emsetup --arch armel ; gcc -static -o uid uid.c
Nov 05 21:05:49 <jimp> I mean, arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -static -o uid uid.c
Nov 05 21:05:49 <cworth> jimp: Perfect. Thanks.
Nov 05 21:06:38 <ioerror> jimp, are you on lenny?
Nov 05 21:06:42 <jimp> ioerror: yeah
Nov 05 21:06:53 <ioerror> i wonder if ther'es a backport
Nov 05 21:07:09 <ioerror> nope
Nov 05 21:07:12 <jimp> just install lenny in a chroot or vm or something, if you don't want to run it natively
Nov 05 21:07:21 <ioerror> yeah, i'll probably do that
Nov 05 21:07:32 <jimp> or I can compile stuff for you
Nov 05 21:07:45 <ioerror> i can compile it on another lenny machine, my laptop is etch though
Nov 05 21:07:50 <meoblast001> google is rated best company to work for
Nov 05 21:07:55 <Dougie187> lol
Nov 05 21:08:03 <ioerror> sadly, i also have 1GB of disk free or i'd just use a chroot
Nov 05 21:08:08 <Dougie187> thank you for that information
Nov 05 21:08:26 <meoblast001> microsoft is 86th cuz they suck
Nov 05 21:08:27 * cworth needs to do some social engineering with his wife to get telnetd running again...
Nov 05 21:08:38 <meoblast001> i want to work for Google one day
Nov 05 21:08:43 <Dougie187> good luck
Nov 05 21:08:51 <meoblast001> what are the requirements
Nov 05 21:09:00 <Dougie187> you have to be awesome
Nov 05 21:09:02 <meoblast001> im pushing for a 4.0 in High School now
Nov 05 21:09:06 <Dougie187> and love donuts
Nov 05 21:09:08 <Dougie187> and flowers
Nov 05 21:09:16 <meoblast001> and i frequently practice Linux and programming
Nov 05 21:09:16 <Dougie187> also you have to be able to run through walls
Nov 05 21:09:19 <DannyB> i want to work for google one day
Nov 05 21:09:26 <DannyB> but all i have is this stupid legal degree
Nov 05 21:09:27 <DannyB> and CS degree
Nov 05 21:09:33 <DannyB> i don't think i can make it through interviews
Nov 05 21:09:36 <meoblast001> and i can get a server setup in 4 hours from putting the cd in to having a full LAMP
Nov 05 21:09:39 <andyross> jimp: The prebuilt toolchain works fine, but the bionic libc requires special flags.
Nov 05 21:10:15 <languish> DannyB, heh.  was there word on that app naming issue?
Nov 05 21:10:44 <Dougie187> meoblast001: just go look at the job requirements on their sites
Nov 05 21:10:46 <meoblast001> although i dont intend to ever work for any company for a long time.... as i plan to start my own company when i am financially stable sometime after college
Nov 05 21:11:06 <wastrel> hi
Nov 05 21:11:07 <Dougie187> what is your company going to do?
Nov 05 21:11:09 <jimp> andyross: I know, I fooled with it enough to get things hobbling along but emdebian-tools is so much easier.
Nov 05 21:11:25 <SplasPood> jimp: ubuntu happen to have an equiv package?
Nov 05 21:11:28 <meoblast001> software
Nov 05 21:11:39 <Dougie187> software is a broad spectrum.
Nov 05 21:11:41 <meoblast001> i try to do as much as i can now for my "company" but im only a teenager so development is slow
Nov 05 21:11:46 <meoblast001> www.mysticgalaxies.com
Nov 05 21:11:53 <DannyB> languish: the official word is marketing is working on it. They haven't quite decided what to do. I have obviously explained to them how wildly stupid it would be to try to force people to change names :)
Nov 05 21:11:59 <andyross> But that's still a static link, isn't it?  Unless you're doing native code for compute-bound stuff only, you want bionic integration to be able to hit the native libraries.
Nov 05 21:12:06 * ahaberlacho 's job once included building the CD that brought up a LAMP-style system from boot in about 5 minutes.
Nov 05 21:12:09 <DannyB> languish: let me ping them again
Nov 05 21:12:20 <ahaberlacho> Although we used PostgreSQL intead of MySQL.
Nov 05 21:12:20 * cworth balked at the click-through legalese and didn't get any further than that with pre-built stuff from google
Nov 05 21:12:36 <jimp> SplasPood: Seems it was removed?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emdebian-tools/+bug/250309
Nov 05 21:12:36 <languish> DannyB, lol.  nod :)  they can reallys pin this to their advantage, if only they "get it"
Nov 05 21:12:45 <SplasPood> jimp: yea looks that way
Nov 05 21:14:24 <meoblast001> Dougie187: what do you think
Nov 05 21:14:35 <Dougie187> you don't have much
Nov 05 21:15:28 <Dougie187> it doesn't seem like a serious company. it looks like something a couple highschoolers through together.
Nov 05 21:15:46 <Disconnect> Dougie187: ..it is i thought
Nov 05 21:15:49 <Dougie187> heh
Nov 05 21:15:50 <DannyB> languish: it looks like use of droid would still be out, but use of oid would not :)
Nov 05 21:15:50 <Dougie187> true.
Nov 05 21:16:06 <Dougie187> Disconnect: but he wants this to be his software company after college.
Nov 05 21:16:13 <meoblast001> try 1 highschooler for the most part
Nov 05 21:16:23 <meoblast001> no no no... im talking.. like 5 years after college or so
Nov 05 21:16:25 <DannyB> languish: i was told they were going to do something "early this week", and just pinged them since i've seen nothing
Nov 05 21:16:30 <meoblast001> after im financially stable enough
Nov 05 21:16:34 <languish> DannyB, i realy don't see how they think they can protect droid in any reasonable manner. yeesh.
Nov 05 21:16:51 <DannyB> i'm with you on that
Nov 05 21:16:51 <languish> +l
Nov 05 21:16:52 <DannyB> but
Nov 05 21:16:53 <Dougie187> meoblast001: are any of your projects complete?
Nov 05 21:16:58 <Disconnect> and you elevator statement needs to talk as if you already had projects. not "we do development for end users" (.. as opposed to giraffes?) "we wnat to do this, and that, and the toher thing.. oh and we sell website templates")
Nov 05 21:17:00 <meoblast001> not really lol
Nov 05 21:17:23 <meoblast001> there is one that never will because i dont have Windows anymore
Nov 05 21:17:37 <meoblast001> an i lost the source code in the big mess i call a switch =P
Nov 05 21:17:45 <Dougie187> then you might just take it down.
Nov 05 21:17:45 <meoblast001> but the software works
Nov 05 21:17:52 <meoblast001> and is a good basic media player
Nov 05 21:18:02 <meoblast001> doesnt use up too much resources and plays MP3's fine
Nov 05 21:18:20 <languish> DannyB, by granting a limited license under specific terms for the general use ANDxxx/XXXDroid, they can do a heck of a lot of good for themselves, AND lock in the protection they want
Nov 05 21:18:23 <meoblast001> if i was still working on it today.. it would be beastly
Nov 05 21:18:54 <Dougie187> i take it this "server" is at your house?
Nov 05 21:19:09 <languish> because by granting a limited licence, they aren't having their IP diluted so broadly, and can go after the worst offenders
Nov 05 21:19:09 <DannyB> languish: again, i'm with you, and i've made this argument. Sometimes i get overruled :)
Nov 05 21:19:24 <languish> DannyB, i know man, not harping on you ;)
Nov 05 21:19:34 <languish> just making suggestions
Nov 05 21:19:36 <meoblast001> Dougie187, i take it your having problems with my ISP speed =P
Nov 05 21:19:38 <DannyB> languish: we'll see. i've forwarded it on to others to try to convince them as well
Nov 05 21:19:39 <meoblast001> and yes
Nov 05 21:19:42 <languish> which of course you've likely covered
Nov 05 21:19:56 * languish is not a lawyer
Nov 05 21:20:00 <Dougie187> meoblast001: no, more the ip.... having :8080 appended to anything gives me an idea of whats going on
Nov 05 21:20:08 <meoblast001> oh yeah
Nov 05 21:20:09 <meoblast001> lol
Nov 05 21:20:38 <meoblast001> i had to call up Armstrong Cable and give them the million questions
Nov 05 21:20:49 <meoblast001> asking about the terms of service
Nov 05 21:20:56 <meoblast001> and what ports are blocked
Nov 05 21:21:00 <languish> DannyB, does this in some way also cover the people using public blogs with "droid" in them, or email addresses/domains?
Nov 05 21:21:25 <Disconnect> meoblast001: you've kinda got 2 choices right now. you can either take that down and camp on it (and then later unveil the professional site) or you can get that one into top shape and hope that having it idle so long (and on the wrong port, etc etc) doesn't end up screwing you later when you go to start the business for real.
Nov 05 21:21:52 <Dougie187> Disconnect: i agree.
Nov 05 21:22:01 <meoblast001> well... current development focus is in 2 areas
Nov 05 21:22:05 <meoblast001> getting mOX to stable
Nov 05 21:22:17 <meoblast001> and working on a Debian based Linux distrobution
Nov 05 21:22:18 <languish> DannyB, for example an android enthusiast that uses the domain "SuperDroid.com" with a blog called "AndPowers"
Nov 05 21:22:19 <Dougie187> meoblast001: hes talking about the web site i believe... since it doesn't seem professional.
Nov 05 21:22:29 <meoblast001> sadly... im the only "development" in the focus
Nov 05 21:22:35 <Disconnect> you're not hearing me though. nothign to do with the software or the projects or anything. its -everything- to do with the website and what its going to say about your company long after this version is gone..
Nov 05 21:23:03 <meoblast001> yeah.. i have some big updates planned
Nov 05 21:23:18 <meoblast001> its slightly a mess of past and future right now
Nov 05 21:23:22 <DannyB> languish: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Nov 05 21:23:28 <DannyB> languish: have to think about that
Nov 05 21:23:32 <meoblast001> i used to be very involved with Adobe Flash stuff and FL Studio stuff
Nov 05 21:23:37 <Dougie187> meoblast001: he is saying, remove the website, and put it back when it gets cleaned up. Or focus on getting it into top shape right now.
Nov 05 21:23:45 <meoblast001> now its more of a hobby and im focussing my site toward the software instead of the portals
Nov 05 21:23:48 <Dougie187> meoblast001: also, do you really think you need all of the features you have? like a forum?
Nov 05 21:24:18 <meoblast001> i _will_ need a form when we push the linux distro out
Nov 05 21:24:49 <Dougie187> meoblast001: sure, but it might be better suited after you get to the point to where you are even developing the distro. and even then, you will probably have different topics you will want to have in your forums
Nov 05 21:25:11 <Dougie187> im just noticing how now, your forum contains a lot of topics, most of with have no replies in them, and the few that do have like 2 replies.
Nov 05 21:25:16 <meoblast001> another focus i have is to get more developers
Nov 05 21:25:16 <meoblast001> 1 person cant operate a whole "company" lol
Nov 05 21:25:17 <languish> DannyB, please let me know if there's an official google stance on it sometime :)
Nov 05 21:25:24 <DannyB> will do
Nov 05 21:25:25 <DannyB> :)
Nov 05 21:26:00 <Dougie187> meoblast001: sure. But noone wants to work for a company that can't pay them and isn't professional. unless they are highschoolers with high hopes like you.
Nov 05 21:26:05 <meoblast001> you guys are convincing me to shift focus to website improvement for next week
Nov 05 21:26:18 <meoblast001> thats why i dont usually call it a company
Nov 05 21:26:25 <Dougie187> meoblast001: but you want it to be a company.
Nov 05 21:26:28 <meoblast001> i usually say its an organization that will one day be a company
Nov 05 21:26:45 <Dougie187> ok, well organizations are more professional than this.. if they are serious
Nov 05 21:26:50 <meoblast001> right now its free stuff and volunteer time kind of thing
Nov 05 21:27:09 <Dougie187> i would also consider taking down most of the things you have on the site... since most of it would turn off people who actually want to support your organization.
Nov 05 21:27:11 <meoblast001> if any money is made in the process, it will be distributed among all active members
Nov 05 21:27:55 <meoblast001> yeah now that i looked at my website closely im gonna have to shift focus to website improvement
Nov 05 21:28:04 <Disconnect> and you are totally in teh wrong place to be asking anyway..
Nov 05 21:28:16 <meoblast001> i'll do some forums improvement right now cuz that's easy
Nov 05 21:28:21 <languish> meoblast001, do you have a lawyer helping you?
Nov 05 21:28:21 <meoblast001> i dont know how we got on this topic
Nov 05 21:28:32 <Dougie187> ...i was trying to say you should ditch your forum.
Nov 05 21:28:33 <meoblast001> languish, when i go pro
Nov 05 21:28:33 <meoblast001> =P
Nov 05 21:28:53 <languish> meoblast001, you're already publishing, get legal help now.
Nov 05 21:29:01 <thoraxe> what website?
Nov 05 21:29:10 <Dougie187> http://m.mysticgalaxies.com:8080/index.html
Nov 05 21:29:12 <meoblast001> www.mysticgalaxies.com
Nov 05 21:29:19 <meoblast001> languish, if you're willing to do it for free =P
Nov 05 21:29:27 <Dougie187> anyways. im out
Nov 05 21:29:27 <languish> meoblast001, as soon as you put it on the web, you're published and liable.
Nov 05 21:29:31 <languish> meoblast001, I'm not a lawyer
Nov 05 21:29:32 <Dougie187> have fun
Nov 05 21:29:37 <meoblast001> time for some forum clean up
Nov 05 21:29:38 <meoblast001> =)
Nov 05 21:29:56 <meoblast001> oh yeah.. i know im liable for what i publish
Nov 05 21:30:11 <ahaberlacho> I suspect that the folks who own the trademark on "TypePad" may have some concerns with one of your products.
Nov 05 21:30:14 <languish> meoblast001, but if you do something on your site that steps on someones toes, or one of your games infringes.. you can end up with some huge bills to pay
Nov 05 21:30:16 <meoblast001> but i dont intend to do anything wrong.. and i always check with the GNU before messing around with GPL stuff in my software
Nov 05 21:30:55 <languish> meoblast001, it's not just about the code. it's about what you name things, how you describe them, their conetnt..,
Nov 05 21:31:03 <languish> *content
Nov 05 21:31:11 <meoblast001> ahaberlacho, im about ready to remove that
Nov 05 21:31:22 <meoblast001> TypePad is very.... simple
Nov 05 21:32:10 <languish> meoblast001, just don't end up oweing a college educations worth of debt, before you even get to college.
Nov 05 21:32:55 <languish> it doesn't matter if you call what you're doing a company or organization, you have no legal protection separating you from your "business" activities
Nov 05 21:33:22 <languish> which means, you can lose your shirt before you can afford to buy one in the first place
Nov 05 21:33:24 <DannyB> if he has an LLP
Nov 05 21:33:28 <DannyB> etc
Nov 05 21:33:33 <languish> trust me, it's no fun.
Nov 05 21:33:35 <DannyB> LLC in this case
Nov 05 21:34:10 <languish> andthere are asshat lawfirms out there that specialize in nailing people like you.. they assume you'll earn money in the future so they try to get you now.
Nov 05 21:34:25 <languish> DannyB, yes.. he needs one
Nov 05 21:35:03 <meoblast001> languish, http://m.mysticgalaxies.com:8080/forums/index.php?topic=16 will be updated soon
Nov 05 21:35:28 <languish> meoblast001, there are free legal services just about everywhere in the US ,, dunno if you are.. but.. fidn them.. also find your local small business administration.. do some reading, and get yourself a cheap llc
Nov 05 21:35:57 <meoblast001> hmm
Nov 05 21:36:04 <meoblast001> well.. i dont have any people working with me
Nov 05 21:36:05 <languish> and pray some predator doesn't find you before you get it done
Nov 05 21:36:18 <meoblast001> i feel like im doing everything alone
Nov 05 21:36:28 <meoblast001> well.... becaue i am for the most part
Nov 05 21:36:39 <meoblast001> i do all the work and get a bunch of feature requests from freinds
Nov 05 21:36:56 <languish> you use a legal business entity to separate what YOU own, from what your 'business" can lose.
Nov 05 21:36:59 <wastrel> why is there no ebook or offline html reader yet?
Nov 05 21:37:14 <languish> there is an ebook reader, it's crappy
Nov 05 21:37:23 <wastrel> yeah i have it, it hangs opening a book
Nov 05 21:37:25 <languish> also, look on other market sites
Nov 05 21:37:28 <meoblast001> Incorporation
Nov 05 21:38:01 <languish> meoblast001, go get that free legal advice, to make sure you get the correct type of incorporation.
Nov 05 21:38:16 <languish> good luck :)
Nov 05 21:38:19 <meoblast001> thanx
Nov 05 21:38:41 <dream_kill> ryebrye : no error on compile here
Nov 05 21:38:48 <languish> meoblast001, find the phone numvber for your local bar association
Nov 05 21:39:09 <languish> they can direct you to some of the said free advice
Nov 05 21:40:53 <wastrel> hi dudes
Nov 05 21:41:06 <languish> right, because there are no dudettes on irc
Nov 05 21:41:08 <languish> :D
Nov 05 21:41:21 <wastrel> i think i need to pull my palm tx out of the drawer until there's a decent option for offline content.
Nov 05 21:41:27 <vol> no channel where someone says "dudettes" has dudettes.
Nov 05 21:41:27 <wastrel> g1 doesn't work in the subway
Nov 05 21:41:38 <meoblast001> i fell like im working with semi-retarded programs
Nov 05 21:41:53 <languish> volm except this one
Nov 05 21:41:54 <languish> :|
Nov 05 21:42:15 <languish> wastrel, pac-man on my g1 works on the subway just fine for me :P
Nov 05 21:42:28 <mattgyver83> can the emulator actually emulate your phone plugged in USB or just the dev testing phone?
Nov 05 21:42:45 <wastrel> yeah i read on the subway
Nov 05 21:42:46 <vol> er...
Nov 05 21:42:49 <vol> mattgyver83: huh?
Nov 05 21:42:54 * streeter can't even access web site without a WiFi connection. No 3G here (yet)
Nov 05 21:42:54 <vol> the emulator emulates your phone
Nov 05 21:42:56 <vol> (sans updates)
Nov 05 21:43:07 <vol> not a dev device
Nov 05 21:43:13 <meoblast001> oh no
Nov 05 21:43:23 <meoblast001> im getting 404's and 403's on half the packages in my repo
Nov 05 21:44:04 <mattgyver83> vol, when i plug my phone in and try to access it i dont see my phone w/apps.  It tells me no devices are found.
Nov 05 21:44:23 <Disconnect> streeter: edge should work fine.. does for me (no 3g at home, just at work and most of my commute. the above-ground bits anyway.)
Nov 05 21:44:34 <Disconnect> mattgyver83: turn on usb debugging
Nov 05 21:44:40 <mattgyver83> did that.
Nov 05 21:44:47 <streeter> Disconnect: it doesn't seem to. I only get timeouts
Nov 05 21:45:07 <mattgyver83> then i tryed running adb devices and it tells me nothings found.
Nov 05 21:45:08 <jaakkee> anyone have any luck with wpa2 enterprise?
Nov 05 21:45:34 <jaakkee> since we got root access i've been trying to get wpa_supplicant/wpa_cli working
Nov 05 21:45:40 <languish> mattgyver83, are you using a usb 2.0 port? and have you tried a different physical port on your machine?
Nov 05 21:45:42 <mattgyver83> but if i just run the emulator from the /tools/ folder of the SDK then i get an emulator, and it notices that as a device.
Nov 05 21:46:15 <mattgyver83> languish, yes its 2.0 and ive tried 2 main ones in the front of my pc, ill try those in the back to test.
Nov 05 21:46:29 <languish> yes try the rear ports :)
Nov 05 21:47:38 <Disconnect> mattgyver83: call tmob
Nov 05 21:47:48 <Disconnect> er...
Nov 05 21:47:51 <Disconnect> streeter: call tmob.
Nov 05 21:48:04 <Disconnect> mattgyver83: try more usb ports or something, i dunno, leave me alone :P
Nov 05 21:48:10 <wastrel> rear port
Nov 05 21:49:46 <languish> HAHAHAHHAHAA
Nov 05 21:49:59 <languish> the description in the market for "Background calendar" is hysterical
Nov 05 21:50:27 <languish> "this is NOT a phishing app. Google has my info and can hunt me down if ti si"
Nov 05 21:50:34 <Disconnect> wow thats .. new.
Nov 05 21:50:35 <languish> *it is
Nov 05 21:50:52 <Disconnect> does it request gps location a lot? :)
Nov 05 21:50:57 <mattgyver83> There is no difference when using the rear ports.
Nov 05 21:51:01 <thoraxe> what's up with the salesforce app
Nov 05 21:51:04 <languish> google calendar password :)
Nov 05 21:51:11 <Disconnect> yah
Nov 05 21:51:39 <DannyB> languish: so i got an answer
Nov 05 21:51:52 <cbeust__> Languish:  yes, we know exactly where you are and what you are doing
Nov 05 21:51:57 <cbeust__> And by the way, stop picking your nose
Nov 05 21:52:19 <DannyB> there will be a link to a form for permission to use droid in the name, so they can evaluate it, rather than outright banning it
Nov 05 21:53:00 <vol> mattgyver83: linux or window
Nov 05 21:53:02 <vol> s
Nov 05 21:53:06 <mattgyver83> vol linux
Nov 05 21:53:07 <languish> cbeust__, I was picking my ass :|
Nov 05 21:53:12 <vol> if linux, adb kill-server; sudo adb start-server;
Nov 05 21:53:21 <cbeust__> I know, I didn't want to embarrass you in front of everyone
Nov 05 21:53:21 <vol> adb server needs to be root to see the device
Nov 05 21:53:31 <vol> there's a way to do it as a user but I forget how : (
Nov 05 21:53:31 <jaakkee> no news on 802.1X?
Nov 05 21:53:32 <languish> cbeust__, I have no shame. carry on :)
Nov 05 21:53:41 <Chainfire> DannyB> just walked in.. what you talking about? do you need googles permission to use android in the name of your product ?
Nov 05 21:53:42 <languish> DannyB hmmm
Nov 05 21:53:48 <vol> Chainfire: yes
Nov 05 21:53:56 <vol> you can use the android graphic as much as you want, though
Nov 05 21:53:57 <Chainfire> wow
Nov 05 21:54:00 <languish> Chainfire, or a derivitive of the word android.
Nov 05 21:54:01 <jaakkee> i figured that since root access that would be a big first thing to try
Nov 05 21:54:03 <vol> you just can't imply that OHA endorses your app
Nov 05 21:54:15 <Chainfire> so BlaaaaAndroidBlaBla is not allowed ?
Nov 05 21:54:16 <vol> (unless they actually do, of course)
Nov 05 21:54:18 <meoblast001> i need to use more google applications
Nov 05 21:54:23 <meoblast001> Google Earth wont work on my machine
Nov 05 21:54:29 <mattgyver83> vol when trying to run sudo it told me adb: command not found, however i could run it w/o sudo...
Nov 05 21:54:33 <meoblast001> i dont take enough pictures to use Picasa
Nov 05 21:54:39 <languish> Chainfire, CandyDroid isn't even permitted, although now they're considering it
Nov 05 21:54:48 <vol> mattgyver83: get the path for adb, set it as root, try again?
Nov 05 21:54:52 <vol> sudo bash :P
Nov 05 21:54:55 <Chainfire> lmao
Nov 05 21:55:08 <Chainfire> ever minute i am here Android gets less and less attractive.
Nov 05 21:55:10 <languish> google likes candy, if it's wholesome and natural :D
Nov 05 21:55:48 <vol> Chainfire: If that's your biggest criteria for development.....
Nov 05 21:55:49 <languish> btw
Nov 05 21:55:58 <Chainfire> isn't Android a common enough word to be banned from that sort of BS ?
Nov 05 21:56:05 <cbeust__> Chainfire: because you can't use the word Android? You can always go and try to release a "Windows wiki" and see how Microsoft feels about it...
Nov 05 21:56:12 <Chainfire> it's in the dictionary you know :)
Nov 05 21:56:17 <languish> I'm just waiting for google and star wars to collide. because lucas has had some serious protections on the word droid
Nov 05 21:56:28 <cbeust__> Chainfire: so is Windows
Nov 05 21:56:33 <languish> Chainfire, and apple :|
Nov 05 21:56:45 <languish> Ip law sucks
Nov 05 21:56:49 <vol> languish: google has some serious lawyers
Nov 05 21:56:52 <Chainfire> ehm yeah, but Microsoft doesnt complain I use Windows Mobile or WM in my apps names.
Nov 05 21:57:11 <languish> vol, yeah, but star wars has more serious fanboys lol
Nov 05 21:57:17 <cbeust__> Chainfire: just because they don't doesn't mean they legally can't
Nov 05 21:57:34 <languish> you don't see people going around halloween dressed as the big G very often
Nov 05 21:57:48 <languish> although olivia munn gave it a shot as the G1
Nov 05 21:57:52 <languish> :/
Nov 05 21:58:11 <DannyB> i dressed up as my stock options
Nov 05 21:58:14 <languish> and she really really shouldn't have
Nov 05 21:58:17 <DannyB> my pants were pretty low
Nov 05 21:58:22 <mattgyver83> vol, now i get a device listed
Nov 05 21:58:25 <Chainfire> cbeust__ mwah while that may be true, it's still silly
Nov 05 21:58:38 <cbeust__> Chainfire: it's complex
Nov 05 21:58:39 <languish> DannyB, yeah, but it depends on when you got in your pants
Nov 05 21:58:40 <Chainfire> ... like not having root :)
Nov 05 21:58:45 <vol> mattgyver83: there you go? :P
Nov 05 21:58:48 <languish> :|
Nov 05 21:59:06 <mattgyver83> Thanks a lot :D this is my first venture into this.
Nov 05 21:59:16 <Chainfire> so where's this form at? or is it not yet around?
Nov 05 21:59:25 <DannyB> not around yet. should be updated in the next day or so
Nov 05 21:59:45 <DannyB> they are still setting up the queue that the form feeds to :)
Nov 05 22:00:27 <Chainfire> heh
Nov 05 22:00:54 <mowgli> has anyone tried debugging the apps/framework thro eclipse?
Nov 05 22:01:01 <languish> holy crap, did something I ask get google to act? wtf is this world coming to?
Nov 05 22:01:16 <languish> businesses aren't supposed to operate like this
Nov 05 22:01:20 <languish> you people are crazy
Nov 05 22:01:39 <jbq> languish: we could also ignore you, but it's not as satisfying.
Nov 05 22:01:40 <Chainfire> its all about asking the right people
Nov 05 22:02:06 <languish> jbq just intimated that I'm satisfying. woo!
Nov 05 22:02:17 <cbeust__> jbq intimates a lot.
Nov 05 22:02:22 <vol> Argh. Isn't SD Card access by USB supposed to be available for windows yet?
Nov 05 22:02:37 <languish> i meant inferred but hey
Nov 05 22:03:04 <languish> we're all adults here, except for you, and you, and him...
Nov 05 22:03:04 <Disconnect> vol: it should just show as usb storage, no mess no fuss
Nov 05 22:03:26 <vol> ugh, it's not.
Nov 05 22:03:35 <vol> where's the option I should know about by know on the phone...
Nov 05 22:03:42 <languish> vol, what RC version do you have?
Nov 05 22:03:45 <vol> do I have to disable debugging via USB?
Nov 05 22:03:50 <vol> uh, 28? lemme check
Nov 05 22:04:01 <languish> no you don't have to disable debugging
Nov 05 22:04:10 <Disconnect> vol: no (although it sometimes helps) but there is an option for showing as usb storage. and in rc28/29 there is a notification for mount/unmount
Nov 05 22:04:12 <vol> 29
Nov 05 22:04:21 <vol> yeah, I get the USB mount notification on the phone
Nov 05 22:04:27 <mowgli> jbq: can someone from you team lehp with debugging the app/framework code thro eclipse. I am able to build the source tree in eclipse. but i am not able to attach the debugger to the emulator
Nov 05 22:04:29 <Disconnect> and you said mount?
Nov 05 22:04:30 <mowgli> any help on this
Nov 05 22:04:34 <vol> Disconnect: where's the USB storage option?
Nov 05 22:04:41 <vol> I think I disabled this in a fit of rage a couple weeks ago
Nov 05 22:04:48 <vol> trying to get USB debugging working
Nov 05 22:05:02 <languish> vol, look in settings.. sd card/storage..
Nov 05 22:05:40 <vol> my options are "unmount/eject" and "reset to factory storage"
Nov 05 22:05:45 <Disconnect> yah it changed in rc29
Nov 05 22:06:01 <languish> ahh yeah it's gone
Nov 05 22:06:09 <vol> what should I do? does it always mount or never mount or what.
Nov 05 22:06:14 <languish> damn stop chaning menus on me
Nov 05 22:06:17 <languish> *changing
Nov 05 22:06:31 <vol> I can always take the card out and plug it in directly, but that's a pain...
Nov 05 22:06:39 <languish> vol, it should always mount when you plug it in and get the mount option and choose it
Nov 05 22:06:57 <vol> ... even when I've installed the USB driver for developers?
Nov 05 22:07:03 <Disconnect> yep
Nov 05 22:07:04 <languish> yes
Nov 05 22:07:06 <vol> wait, mount option
Nov 05 22:07:07 <vol> ah
Nov 05 22:07:10 <vol> do I have to click the notification?
Nov 05 22:07:12 <languish> i'm suing it with rc29 rigth now
Nov 05 22:07:13 <Disconnect> ...yes
Nov 05 22:07:16 <languish> *using
Nov 05 22:07:21 <languish> yes
Nov 05 22:07:34 <vol> well, that's the piece I was missing
Nov 05 22:07:34 <Disconnect> "and in rc29 there is a notification...you said mount?"
Nov 05 22:07:36 <SplasPood> vol: I believe there is a driver for windows
Nov 05 22:07:42 <vol> there we go
Nov 05 22:07:46 <vol> SplasPood: Yes, I installed it :)
Nov 05 22:07:50 <vol> thanks, that seems to do it.
Nov 05 22:07:52 <SplasPood> vol: I had to do the some stuff for..  ah ok then no clue ;)
Nov 05 22:08:04 <languish> i actually preferred the old way
Nov 05 22:08:15 <Disconnect> i hated the old way. it'd be nice if you could set an option tho.
Nov 05 22:08:22 <languish> nod
Nov 05 22:08:24 <vol> I agree with disconnect.
Nov 05 22:08:28 <Disconnect> i dig through all my old boxes looking for a charge-only usb cable cuz the old way pissed me off
Nov 05 22:08:39 <vol> Or at least if it was something in the SD options that let you say "oops, I really meant mount this"
Nov 05 22:08:40 <languish> heh
Nov 05 22:09:10 <SplasPood> yea I'm with disco on this
Nov 05 22:13:06 <vol> So, does anyone else have trouble debugging from the device?
Nov 05 22:13:12 <vol> My debugger never ever attaches.
Nov 05 22:14:25 <jasta> vol: read the debugging on device section of the getting started page.
Nov 05 22:14:34 <jasta> you must specify that your app is debuggable in the apk
Nov 05 22:14:36 <jbq> have you indicated in your manifest that your application is debuggable?
Nov 05 22:14:40 <vol> argh fuck
Nov 05 22:14:43 <jasta> and also, make sure you are attaching to the right process if you have multiple
Nov 05 22:14:44 <vol> why is that not the default
Nov 05 22:14:46 <vol> why why why
Nov 05 22:14:50 <jasta> because it shouldnt be the default
Nov 05 22:15:07 <vol> why doesn't pressing "debug" when going to a device not say "hey jackass the manifest says it's not debuggable"
Nov 05 22:15:38 <fadden> vol: it's a missing feature.
Nov 05 22:16:16 <fadden> Should get added at some point.
Nov 05 22:18:05 <Disconnect> so just ooc why -did- google reinvent the wheel with the shell env instead of just building a tiny busybox and using that?
Nov 05 22:18:25 <Disconnect> (toolkit or whatever its called)
Nov 05 22:18:27 <ahaberlacho> I believe it had to do with licensing.
Nov 05 22:18:32 <npelly> for one, busybox is not APACHE licensed
Nov 05 22:18:48 <Chainfire> is all the code in the Android tree Apache? no GPL stuff?
Nov 05 22:19:03 <fadden> The kernel is GPL.
Nov 05 22:19:04 <jbq> other than the kernel, as much as we possibly can.
Nov 05 22:19:12 <Disconnect> neither is dropbear or openssl..
Nov 05 22:19:24 <Disconnect> i'd bet a TON of external/ is under non-apache licensing.
Nov 05 22:19:29 <jbq> webkit is the elephant in the room.
Nov 05 22:19:46 <npelly> busybox is optional, the stuff in external/ is not
Nov 05 22:20:04 <fadden> In the git sources: ls external/*/MODULE*
Nov 05 22:20:15 <fadden> That'll give you a quick summary of what's whta.
Nov 05 22:20:58 <Disconnect> you could have rewritten basically any of that stuff. i'm just wondering why that in particular when there is a tried-and-true (and commercial-friendly) alternative
Nov 05 22:21:11 <mowgli> I am able to build the root/development/ide/.classpath in eclipse.
Nov 05 22:21:11 <mowgli> There was a bug in the .classpath  file which was causing numerous
Nov 05 22:21:11 <mowgli> errors. The following line was missing in the .classpath:
Nov 05 22:21:11 <mowgli> <classpathentry kind="lib" path="out/target/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/
Nov 05 22:21:11 <mowgli> framework_intermediates/javalib.jar"/>
Nov 05 22:21:12 <mowgli> If I try to attach the debugger with the emulator as a remote java
Nov 05 22:21:14 <mowgli> application at localhost:5554 it fails to connect the the VM with
Nov 05 22:21:16 <mowgli> "Handshake failed".  Can someone explain how you would initiate the
Nov 05 22:21:18 <mowgli> debugger from eclipse to step thro the app/framework code?
Nov 05 22:21:30 <Disconnect> thats less brain-damaged :) (and no i'm not talking about "oh no ls and grep  and awk and.. is missing" brain damaged but behaves-incorrectly brain-damaged)
Nov 05 22:21:49 <Disconnect> mowgli: i'll give you $1 to pry the enter key off your kb and set it on fire
Nov 05 22:22:03 <mowgli> :)
Nov 05 22:22:12 * Disconnect isn't kidding
Nov 05 22:22:29 <mowgli> disconnect: andropologies
Nov 05 22:22:39 <fadden> localhost:5554 ?
Nov 05 22:22:56 <Disconnect> mowgli: careful, you need to file some as-yet-not-completed form before you can use andro* or google might sue. ;)
Nov 05 22:23:22 <mowgli> fadden: the emulator is running at port 554
Nov 05 22:23:24 <mowgli> 5554
Nov 05 22:23:30 <fadden> You don't connect your debugger to the emulator.
Nov 05 22:23:42 <mowgli> disconnnect: androccepted
Nov 05 22:23:46 <languish> where should google sue when they can just dispatch a team of white, blue, reg, yelolow and green ninjas to end you
Nov 05 22:23:52 <mowgli> fadden: enligten me
Nov 05 22:23:53 <fadden> You connect it to the port provided by DDMS or the Eclipse plugin.
Nov 05 22:24:02 <languish> where/why
Nov 05 22:24:03 <languish> :|
Nov 05 22:24:34 <bloo> anyone play around with autocompletetextbox
Nov 05 22:24:45 <fadden> mowgli: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html
Nov 05 22:24:52 <bloo> i set enoughtofilter to always return true
Nov 05 22:25:30 <mowgli> fadden: have you tried it? basically i launched the emulator built with the open source and built the java project from the classpath provided in theopen source
Nov 05 22:25:42 <bloo> but unless i type something then backspace it wont display the drop down list even if i call showdropdown
Nov 05 22:26:13 <fadden> mowgli: I tried it several times.  (You have no idea.)
Nov 05 22:26:18 <Disconnect> languish: cuz gas is expensive but paper is cheap.
Nov 05 22:26:24 <Disconnect> and if you buy a judge its the gift that just keeps giving..
Nov 05 22:26:47 <fadden> You should be connecting to 8700 for the current app, or 86xx for a specific app.
Nov 05 22:26:50 <cmonex> Disconnect: i wasnt here, any news on hacking to flash unsigned fw?
Nov 05 22:26:54 <fadden> Where "current app" means "the app selected in DDMS".
Nov 05 22:27:21 <cmonex> ttuttle - i sent you a pm
Nov 05 22:27:30 <cmonex> just a simple question
Nov 05 22:27:34 <cmonex> maybe someone else can answer it too
Nov 05 22:27:54 <languish> Disconnect, yeah i guess, and pissed off but living people generate more content for google to absrob
Nov 05 22:27:55 <mowgli> fadden: i believe these instructions are for debugging an app with the SDK
Nov 05 22:28:01 <Disconnect> cmonex: not afail but i haven't looked at how hard it'll be to quiesce the mtd layer yet
Nov 05 22:28:19 <Disconnect> mowgli: what are you debugging the app with? giraffes?
Nov 05 22:28:23 <fadden> mowgli: interaction between the debugger and an app are the same for SDK / source and emulator / device.
Nov 05 22:28:30 <cmonex> Disconnect i got ideas other than mtd
Nov 05 22:28:36 <cmonex> but i dont have a g1 to try on
Nov 05 22:28:41 <mowgli> Disconnect: LOL
Nov 05 22:28:42 <cmonex> is there a crosscompiler yet?
Nov 05 22:28:46 <fadden> We tried very hard to conceal the differences.
Nov 05 22:29:07 <Disconnect> cmonex: part of the platform build
Nov 05 22:29:24 <cmonex> and you can compile your own c programs at will?
Nov 05 22:29:43 <fadden> cmonex: you can compile the entire platform at will.
Nov 05 22:29:43 <Disconnect> fadden: btw that ls is pretty enlightening. although it still doesn't answer why toolkit was used :)
Nov 05 22:29:52 <mowgli> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/c0fd3d1a7dd969c9/d5673a7da6c91e1d
Nov 05 22:30:29 <mowgli> fadden: can you thro me some gyan how to proceed from here?
Nov 05 22:30:58 <mowgli> Disconnect: see my girrafe above
Nov 05 22:31:02 <cmonex> so
Nov 05 22:31:15 <fadden> mowgli: getting the classpath set up and pointing at the sources isn't useful if you're connecting to the wrong debug port.  The VM doesn't live there.
Nov 05 22:31:20 <Disconnect> what you can't do is sign it with the signature that the bootloader wants
Nov 05 22:31:25 <cmonex> my question to ttuttle or to anyone with eng device was: when your g1 is in tricolour screen (bootloader with camera + power), whats the exact version it reports on the screen?
Nov 05 22:31:38 <fadden> The URL I posted above has the basic debugger setup instructions.
Nov 05 22:31:51 <fadden> If you don't have or want to use the ADT plugin, use the stand-alone DDMS.
Nov 05 22:34:41 <mowgli> fadden: I dont want to see Logd messages printed in the ddms. My intention is to step thro framework the code in eclipse IDE
Nov 05 22:35:30 <eldenz> disable debug messages?
Nov 05 22:35:31 <fadden> mowgli: there are probably 10 different VMs running on your device.  You only want to debug one of them.  How do you pick which one to debug?
Nov 05 22:35:40 <fadden> (Answer: you pick it out of the list in DDMS.)
Nov 05 22:36:20 <fadden> DDMS is a debugger switch-board.  It connects a debugger to a VM.  (Technically, it can handle multiple debuggers talking to different VMs all at once.)
Nov 05 22:36:48 <fadden> It also carries on side conversations for things like heap and thread status.
Nov 05 22:36:56 <Disconnect> cmonex: bootloader is reportedly inviolate from inside linux
Nov 05 22:36:58 <bloo> ooooh i got a cool new feature! umph!
Nov 05 22:37:11 <bloo> tappableautocompletetextview, if you tap into it, it starts the autocomplete!
Nov 05 22:37:52 <cmonex> inviolate means?
Nov 05 22:38:25 <cmonex> hmm nvm i used a dictionary
Nov 05 22:38:31 <cmonex> (not a native speaker)
Nov 05 22:38:43 <cmonex> but what does this mean in this context?
Nov 05 22:42:10 <mowgli> fadden: i just reimaged my machine and am not able to run ddms. libswt-pi-gtk-3232.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 (Possible cause: architecture word width mismatch)
Nov 05 22:43:20 <fadden> mowgli: you need to run DDMS or the ADT plugin for Eclipse.  Otherwise there's no way to set up the communication bridge through adb.
Nov 05 22:43:24 <Chainfire> cmonex i think he means you cant touch bootloader from android
Nov 05 22:43:44 <mattgyver83> ls
Nov 05 22:43:52 <Disconnect> cmonex: means it cannot be altered
Nov 05 22:43:59 <cmonex> BS :)
Nov 05 22:44:10 <cmonex> it is in the same nand as the system
Nov 05 22:44:11 <chronographer> Hi all. Anyone know if I can install android on a grenphone?
Nov 05 22:44:19 <chronographer> *qtopia greenphone
Nov 05 22:44:29 <cmonex> and the radio isn't protecting that part of the nand where the SPL is
Nov 05 22:44:38 <cmonex> it only protects itself (radio image and radio bootloader)
Nov 05 22:46:00 <Disconnect> its /dev/block/mtdblock0. its unreadable from inside the system. haven't had a lot of time to look into why (gotta get my cross-compilers running and then get mtd-utils ported)
Nov 05 22:46:21 <cmonex> the SPL is at 0x2400000 in the nand
Nov 05 22:46:23 <cmonex> nothing special
Nov 05 22:46:36 <cmonex> if you take the radio.img you can see that from the partition config :)
Nov 05 22:46:53 <cmonex> of course you have to use something lower level than mtd to access iz
Nov 05 22:46:55 <cmonex> it*
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 05 22:48:18 2008

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 05 22:48:39 2008
Nov 05 22:49:24 <Disconnect> rami: congrats :)
Nov 05 22:50:05 <cmonex> btw
Nov 05 22:50:12 <rami> Disconnect, thanks man!!
Nov 05 22:50:13 <cmonex> i call the code that shows the tricolour screen as SPL
Nov 05 22:50:17 <cmonex> to make it clearer
Nov 05 22:51:32 <bloo> anyoe got a clue how to receive an email like recieving a sms?
Nov 05 22:51:55 <jeld> bloo, ???
Nov 05 22:52:25 <bloo> programmatically
Nov 05 22:52:39 <ttuttle> rami: cool
Nov 05 22:52:51 <cmonex> ttuttle: have you seen my PM?
Nov 05 22:52:59 <ttuttle> yeah
Nov 05 22:53:04 <cmonex> and any answer? :)
Nov 05 22:53:06 <ttuttle> That's secret, I think.
Nov 05 22:53:09 <Disconnect> cmonex: he's not gonna answer anything that helps unlock it
Nov 05 22:53:12 <cmonex> the version number?
Nov 05 22:53:16 <cmonex> how is that going to help to unlock it? :)
Nov 05 22:53:17 <cmonex> i asked:
Nov 05 22:53:24 <cmonex> when your g1 is in tricolour screen (bootloader with camera + power), whats the exact version it reports on the screen?
Nov 05 22:53:28 <Disconnect> ..your goal is unlock, so he's not gonna answer..
Nov 05 22:53:33 <ttuttle> Disconnect: precisely.
Nov 05 22:53:37 <cmonex> huh? i was just curious
Nov 05 22:53:39 <cmonex> :shrug:
Nov 05 22:54:01 <Chainfire> meh cmonex ill tell you when my G1 comes in.
Nov 05 22:54:03 <cmonex> tell me how this would help unlocking, though
Nov 05 22:54:08 <cmonex> Chainfire, your g1 is not eng device
Nov 05 22:54:21 <Chainfire> oh you need UK device.. yah this will be US one
Nov 05 22:54:45 <ttuttle> cmonex: Sorry, Google's been on my case a little :-\
Nov 05 22:55:31 <cmonex> really? what does that mean?
Nov 05 22:55:33 <andyross> There's a fine line between developer support and reckless enabling.  If I were google, I wouldn't want employees in IRC channels talking about private hardware either.
Nov 05 22:55:38 <cmonex> Chainfire: no, engineer
Nov 05 22:55:41 <cmonex> eng means that
Nov 05 22:55:58 <Chainfire> silly me thinking it meant english ;)
Nov 05 22:56:15 <cmonex> :D
Nov 05 22:56:17 <andyross> Explaining stuff about the source is one thing.  Proxying questions about hardware that isn't available to the public is something different.
Nov 05 22:56:51 <Damm> HBOOT-.95.0000
Nov 05 22:56:55 <Damm> CPLD-4
Nov 05 22:57:02 <Damm> radio 1.22.12.29, sep 2 2008
Nov 05 22:57:14 <cmonex> thats production device I guess
Nov 05 22:57:18 <Damm> yes
Nov 05 22:57:55 <andyross> When I was doing wireless development, management was really serious about tracking all the gadgets and making sure no one was using them personally, etc...  They weren't very good at it, mind you, but the intent was there.
Nov 05 22:58:33 <Damm> personally I don't see a problem with google employees on irc as long as they are not giving out information that should not be given out
Nov 05 22:58:47 <Damm> a pretty common CYA thing... don't say something you shouldn't
Nov 05 22:58:53 <Damm> and if you don't know if you should say it, don't.
Nov 05 22:59:00 <andyross> Ditto.  But in this case it was a question about what the engineering hardware was doing at boot.  Sorta crossed the line, and I was trying to explain.
Nov 05 22:59:13 <Damm> *nodnod*
Nov 05 22:59:31 <RyeBrye> I dunno... fastboot isn't exactly secret
Nov 05 22:59:50 <RyeBrye> That's like saying "the BIOS version on the machine I compiled your SDK on is top secret"
Nov 05 23:00:18 <Damm> RyeBrye, it's kinda like your mom telling you something she already knows.
Nov 05 23:00:22 <Damm> you don't do it
Nov 05 23:00:52 <Damm> if you have a problem with it, email god@google.com
Nov 05 23:00:54 <Chainfire> so anyone figure out yet _why_ telnetd runs as root? (aside from you google guys) :)
Nov 05 23:01:02 <Disconnect> ttuttle: its not personal (any more than your not being in a position to answer questions is) but .. no need to put you in any hard decisions :)
Nov 05 23:01:17 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Oh, I know ;-)
Nov 05 23:01:19 * Disconnect is being serious, no animosity/etcetc.. life is life, etc
Nov 05 23:02:40 <cmonex> [23:59:55] <RyeBrye> That's like saying "the BIOS version on the machine I compiled your SDK on is top secret"
Nov 05 23:02:41 <cmonex> right, lol
Nov 05 23:02:50 <tethridge> you guys quit bothering ttuttle so he can get back to work on my on-screen keyboard.  :-)
Nov 05 23:03:08 <cmonex> we already quit :)
Nov 05 23:03:11 <ttuttle> heh
Nov 05 23:03:14 <cmonex> hey we  give up totally!!
Nov 05 23:03:18 <cmonex> g1 wont ever be unlocked :)
Nov 05 23:03:19 <cmonex> better now?
Nov 05 23:03:19 <cmonex> :)
Nov 05 23:03:20 * ttuttle has plenty of schoolwork, don't worry.
Nov 05 23:03:35 <Disconnect> cya later all
Nov 05 23:03:35 <cmonex> Chainfire: i'd like to know too
Nov 05 23:04:08 <Chainfire> cmonex> myeah im wondering... dont you need root to get a < 1024 port listening?
Nov 05 23:07:04 <Chainfire> btw, a week or so ago somebody was telling about writing up a tutorial on how to run C++ code on Android... anyone know anything about this? did it get written, where is it, etc
Nov 05 23:08:35 <vol> google "android c++" or so
Nov 05 23:08:45 <vol> I'm actually dealing with JNI right now
Nov 05 23:09:15 <keny> i thought this wasnt possible. is there any tool which converts to .dex from a C/C++ or binary file?
Nov 05 23:09:23 <keny> +yet?
Nov 05 23:09:44 <Chainfire> meh ill go dig through logs about who it was and what he said
Nov 05 23:09:54 <vol> no, it's not
Nov 05 23:10:02 <keny> Chainfire, with the recent exploit, maybe you can cross-compile to ARM, then run it or something like that
Nov 05 23:10:03 <vol> you can create static apps
Nov 05 23:10:10 <vol> but you can't really run anything meaningful past "hello world"
Nov 05 23:10:14 <vol> since you don't have framebuffer access
Nov 05 23:10:29 <ttuttle> vol: my IRC client, mail client, and editor would like to speak with you.
Nov 05 23:10:38 <vol> well, that's where JNI comes in :P
Nov 05 23:10:46 <vol> unless you do have framebuffer access
Nov 05 23:10:51 <vol> in which case I desperately wish to speak to you.
Nov 05 23:11:09 <ttuttle> vol: /me wonders what it would take to access SurfaceFlinger in C...
Nov 05 23:11:24 <Chainfire> hey i dont need to display anything
Nov 05 23:11:28 <Chainfire> I just need to run some code :)
Nov 05 23:11:51 * vol wonders what SurfaceFlinger is : (
Nov 05 23:12:07 <ttuttle> vol: Oh, it's the Android graphics server, I think.
Nov 05 23:12:43 <vol> orly...
Nov 05 23:12:55 <ttuttle> "Surface flinger is a system-wide surface composer, handling all surface rendering to frame buffer device. It can combine 2d and 3d surfaces and surfaces from multiple applications. Surfaces are passed as buffers via binder interprocess (IPC) calls. It can use OpenGL ES and 2d hardware acceleration for its compositions. Surface flinger uses double-buffering using page-flips. System integrators can plug in hardware accelerat
Nov 05 23:13:09 <vol> I'm reading that very page
Nov 05 23:13:17 <vol> (or blag copy/paste)
Nov 05 23:14:00 <keny> vol: how do you run those static apps? are there tools included in the sdk to do so?
Nov 05 23:14:35 <vol> adb shell was how I was doing it
Nov 05 23:15:01 * ttuttle <3 adb shell.
Nov 05 23:15:34 <keny> oh, so you just compile them, copy them over, and run them? i dunno why i thought that only java code was supported for now.
Nov 05 23:15:50 <romainguy> because only Java code is supported right now :)
Nov 05 23:15:53 <vol> ^^
Nov 05 23:16:02 <romainguy> you can run, obviously, native code
Nov 05 23:16:09 <ttuttle> romainguy: hey, how's it going?
Nov 05 23:16:29 <romainguy> but by not supported we mean that you can't access our app framework, draw on screen without some magic and your stuff might break in a next update
Nov 05 23:16:38 <cmonex> just like iphone, huh
Nov 05 23:16:39 <cmonex> :)
Nov 05 23:16:47 <ttuttle> cmonex: Yeah, except way better.
Nov 05 23:16:50 <keny> romainguy, oh i see :)
Nov 05 23:17:08 * ttuttle files a feature request on b.android.com to see how romainguy's day is going.
Nov 05 23:17:11 <cmonex> better? so far i see no advantage
Nov 05 23:17:13 <cmonex> =P
Nov 05 23:17:22 <cmonex> but of course g1 is new and not hacked yet
Nov 05 23:17:22 <ttuttle> cmonex: This one says "Google" on the back ;-)
Nov 05 23:17:26 <ttuttle> cmonex: And the logo is much cuter.
Nov 05 23:17:30 <cmonex> hmm..
Nov 05 23:17:34 <cmonex> yeah I dont like the stupid apple logo
Nov 05 23:17:39 <ttuttle> cmonex: And without hacking either of them, the G1 is much more flexible.
Nov 05 23:17:49 <cmonex> i am sure.. i was just joking above :)
Nov 05 23:18:05 <`vip> got my G1 today, so far loving it ...
Nov 05 23:18:10 <ttuttle> `vip: congrats!
Nov 05 23:18:17 <`vip> only thing that kinda sucks is the battery life is rather poor atm
Nov 05 23:18:20 <ttuttle> vol: feel free to ask questions if you've got any.
Nov 05 23:18:53 <vol> ttuttle: is there any documentation or reference to SurfaceFlinger on the internet?
Nov 05 23:19:09 <`vip> when i got it, i used it till it died, then charged it full ... downloaded bonsai blast, connected to wifi @ mcds for like 15 mins browsed the market for a bit and now it's almost dead again :l
Nov 05 23:19:36 <vol> aside from a permissions request for using it
Nov 05 23:19:38 <f00f-> anyone figure out a contacts importer?
Nov 05 23:19:42 <f00f-> or do i need to write one
Nov 05 23:19:47 <`vip> other than that, i love it ... it's a HUGE improvement over my wing ;)
Nov 05 23:19:55 <ttuttle> vol: Check the Android docs?
Nov 05 23:19:57 <spikebike> gmail.com has an importer
Nov 05 23:20:02 <ttuttle> `vip: Oh, Bonsai Blast is *awesome*.
Nov 05 23:20:10 <f00f-> i dont want gmail/google to ahve my contacts
Nov 05 23:20:14 <ttuttle> `vip: They had that on the internal market during the summer, and I got addicted to it.
Nov 05 23:20:17 <ttuttle> f00f-: Then don't buy a G1.
Nov 05 23:20:21 <vol> do you mean http://code.google.com/search/#p=android&q=SurfaceFlinger or the android source
Nov 05 23:20:27 <ttuttle> vol: Either one.
Nov 05 23:20:29 * unix_lappy prays to ceiling cat for an early release of the of the IMF/IME
Nov 05 23:20:33 <romainguy> f00f-: disable contacts syncing and don't use Gmail
Nov 05 23:20:35 <ttuttle> vol: I don't know of any SurfaceFlinger-specific releases.
Nov 05 23:20:36 <spikebike> foof you could import, get them on the g1, then delete them from gmail.com
Nov 05 23:20:43 <romainguy> unix_lappy: be patient :)
Nov 05 23:20:48 <vol> well, the first one just lists it in the permissions
Nov 05 23:20:58 <vol> the second one, I haven't looked at the android source yet (someone else here is)
Nov 05 23:21:09 <vol> the first one also lists the Brick permission
Nov 05 23:21:12 <vol> which I find curious
Nov 05 23:21:18 <RyeBrye> there is no development / 'next' open source repo for stuff coming down the pipe, right?
Nov 05 23:21:24 <Chainfire> isnt exchange syncing supported yet? (or planned?)
Nov 05 23:21:25 <RyeBrye> public repo that is
Nov 05 23:21:25 <romainguy> not yet
Nov 05 23:21:27 <romainguy> we're working on it RyeBrye
Nov 05 23:21:32 <ttuttle> romainguy: So what's in the public one right now?
Nov 05 23:21:36 <romainguy> switching from perforce to git is not a simple task :)
Nov 05 23:21:36 <`vip> f00f- whats wrong wit hthe contacts importer ?
Nov 05 23:21:43 <romainguy> you guys have what's in the G1
Nov 05 23:21:44 <f00f-> well i need to import them from my N95
Nov 05 23:21:46 <unix_lappy> I'm patient, just not q1 2009 patient ;-)
Nov 05 23:21:48 <f00f-> N95 supports SyncML
Nov 05 23:21:49 <RyeBrye> romainguy - I can imagine. Git makes your head explode when you first start workign with it
Nov 05 23:21:56 * RyeBrye has his head still exploded
Nov 05 23:21:59 * ttuttle really grew to like Perforce.
Nov 05 23:22:03 <romainguy> that's not really about git
Nov 05 23:22:11 <romainguy> it's more about all the tools we have that rely on perforce :)
Nov 05 23:22:13 * ttuttle is forcing himself to learn git this semester for a class.
Nov 05 23:22:21 <ttuttle> romainguy: sed -i "s/p4/git/" ;-)
Nov 05 23:22:32 <RyeBrye> romainguy - by 'tools' you mean 'interns' ?
Nov 05 23:22:35 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 05 23:22:47 <ttuttle> romainguy: Yeah, just get an intern to fix it all.
Nov 05 23:22:55 * ttuttle <3 interns.
Nov 05 23:23:03 <f00f-> heh
Nov 05 23:23:08 <f00f-> you must miss it a lot tuttles
Nov 05 23:23:13 <RyeBrye> did tuttle just feed 3 interns into himself?
Nov 05 23:23:20 <ttuttle> No.
Nov 05 23:23:22 <romainguy> heh, love interns too, that's how I got the job
Nov 05 23:23:25 <ttuttle> romainguy: heh
Nov 05 23:23:36 <unix_lappy> heh, how old are you?
Nov 05 23:23:40 <romainguy> RyeBrye: no, but ttuttle talks as much as 3 interns
Nov 05 23:23:45 <ttuttle> romainguy: it's true.
Nov 05 23:24:05 <ttuttle> romainguy: /me has considered writing an irssi plugin that keeps track of, over the last $n$ minutes, what percentage of messages in the channel are spoken by the user.
Nov 05 23:24:08 <romainguy> unix_lappy: me?
Nov 05 23:24:16 <unix_lappy> yea...
Nov 05 23:24:20 <romainguy> 26
Nov 05 23:24:49 <ttuttle> brb
Nov 05 23:25:00 <jasta> ttuttle: just use a cron to websuck the logs and insert into a sql database
Nov 05 23:25:09 <unix_lappy> heh, i was like, android started about 5 years ago, i'd wager they started hiring interface developers pretty heavily 3-4 years ago, and you were an intern in uni so that's another 3-4.
Nov 05 23:25:47 <ttuttle> jasta: That's really complicated, and won't let me display it in the status bar.
Nov 05 23:26:12 <romainguy> unix_lappy: I took my time to finish my studies, I interrupted them for one year to work at Sun on the JDK :p
Nov 05 23:26:19 <ttuttle> romainguy: heh
Nov 05 23:28:44 <languish> is there a blogger app *from google* in the queue? if so, any eta?
Nov 05 23:29:02 <jasta> ttuttle: really complicated?  you could bang that out in perl or python using unix tools in less than an hour
Nov 05 23:29:19 <ttuttle> jasta: It's more complicated than an irssi script.
Nov 05 23:29:44 <jasta> perhaps some small margin, but also way more useful
Nov 05 23:29:53 <jasta> and more general :)
Nov 05 23:30:03 <jasta> and better engineered
Nov 05 23:32:14 <sodenrox> anyone having a problem with the touch screen while charging?
Nov 05 23:32:31 <sodenrox> anyone *else* i should say
Nov 05 23:34:26 <Chainfire> http://www.androidforums.com/showthread.php?t=1633 <<<< well I guess somebody got root
Nov 05 23:35:27 <spikebike> scam
Nov 05 23:35:54 <Chainfire> hmm?
Nov 05 23:36:44 <vol> hahaha
Nov 05 23:36:48 <vol> virus protection on a linux system
Nov 05 23:36:50 <vol> YES!
Nov 05 23:36:50 <cmonex> sodenrox: see my q elsewhere :)
Nov 05 23:37:13 <Chainfire> I've never seen a virus for WM yet either, yet like 5 different AV tools exist
Nov 05 23:37:49 <ttuttle> lol
Nov 05 23:37:54 <ttuttle> they're probably really fast too.
Nov 05 23:38:17 <spikebike> would be fun to strace them
Nov 05 23:38:24 <keny> FUCK
Nov 05 23:38:31 <spikebike> prolly just looping and displaying a progress bar
Nov 05 23:38:32 <keny> i just typed shutdown -h now on the wrong terminal
Nov 05 23:38:34 <keny> : (
Nov 05 23:38:38 <Chainfire> lol keny
Nov 05 23:38:48 * Chainfire checks if Google.com is still up
Nov 05 23:39:09 <Chainfire> well I dunno, I never tried them, but they come from houses like F-Secure
Nov 05 23:39:12 <keny> daaaaaaaamn f*ck f*ck f*ck
Nov 05 23:39:20 <Chainfire> not a small name in the AV sector
Nov 05 23:39:31 <tweakt> thats why you never use "now" for the time, so you can stop it if needed ;-)
Nov 05 23:40:19 <keny> i'd say, that's why you never leave an open root session on a dedicated server open for nothing :'(
Nov 05 23:40:24 <Chainfire> I tried setting it "20 minutes ago" once et voila, my box was already up.
Nov 05 23:40:35 <languish> keny, time to write a shutdown confirmation script that shows you which terminal you're on and some recent command history just so you know what you were doing on that term
Nov 05 23:40:36 <keny> DAMN
Nov 05 23:40:47 <keny> languish, yes
Nov 05 23:41:15 <keny> wasn't even my server
Nov 05 23:41:23 <languish> doh
Nov 05 23:41:27 <keny> gonna get killed
Nov 05 23:41:28 <keny> :P
Nov 05 23:41:37 <languish> "we wuz hax!"
Nov 05 23:41:57 <languish> "Bastards! they killed Kenny!"
Nov 05 23:42:03 <languish> or in this case, Keny
Nov 05 23:42:06 <languish> :
Nov 05 23:42:13 <keny> hehe :P
Nov 05 23:42:37 <languish> quick, change your nick, they'll never find ya
Nov 05 23:42:41 <keny> languish, i suspect you're not too far off .... DAMN i feel so stupid now
Nov 05 23:43:00 * RyeBrye remotely enables GPS on keny's G1...
Nov 05 23:43:03 <languish> it happens
Nov 05 23:43:21 <RyeBrye> Is it on a guaranteed uptime server?
Nov 05 23:43:39 <keny> RyeBrye, i wish you could, since that'd mean i had a G1 hehe
Nov 05 23:43:40 <RyeBrye> If a server outage is short enough, a user will often blame their own ISP :)
Nov 05 23:44:08 <keny> well, not sure how they power on servers on that datacenter
Nov 05 23:44:17 <RyeBrye> oh
Nov 05 23:44:19 <languish> I know a company that replaces all their production server shutdown commands with "wanttodie"
Nov 05 23:44:24 <RyeBrye> You shut it down?
Nov 05 23:44:36 <keny> i did. D:
Nov 05 23:44:43 <RyeBrye> LOL
Nov 05 23:44:49 <RyeBrye> I was thinking you just rebooted it
Nov 05 23:44:58 <RyeBrye> ... you don't have any kind of remote-access board on that server?
Nov 05 23:45:00 <languish> call the dc
Nov 05 23:45:04 <Chainfire> yes -h I see now... hoped it'd be -r
Nov 05 23:45:04 <languish> have them hit the button
Nov 05 23:45:06 <RyeBrye> The Dell DRACs kick ass for this kind of thin
Nov 05 23:45:16 <RyeBrye> you just connect to that little bitch and say "turn it on"
Nov 05 23:45:32 <keny> you mean some kind of wake-on-lan ?
Nov 05 23:46:08 <keny> dunno, but im sure i will not be able to do it manually from here. will have to call support or something of that sort
Nov 05 23:46:10 <RyeBrye> No, it's a little card that sits in your server and has it's own NIC - you connect to it via the web and you can totally control the machine as if you were there - including powering it on... et.c
Nov 05 23:46:50 <keny> nope i don't have access to that. I don't even know how they manage power-ons in that datacenter :(
Nov 05 23:46:56 <RyeBrye> It doesn't WOL, it interfaces withthe hardware... you can even VNC with it and acts as if it were connected to the VGA port or something... you can even use a CD in your local machine to re-install the entire OS on the server if you want :)
Nov 05 23:46:56 <SplasPood> So did we figure out why telnetd ends up running as root yet? ;)
Nov 05 23:47:04 <keny> was not even my server, a friends'
Nov 05 23:47:26 <RyeBrye> SplasPood - I'm sure Google will tell us when they make their announcement about it
Nov 05 23:47:28 <jasta> keny: the server really doesnt have WOL?
Nov 05 23:47:34 <SplasPood> RyeBrye: think they're gonna?
Nov 05 23:48:01 <RyeBrye> I would imagine they would
Nov 05 23:48:37 <keny> jasta, not sure about that. I'm sending some packets over but no response :P
Nov 05 23:48:40 <Chainfire> RyeBrye> you mean right around the time they fix it? :)
Nov 05 23:48:49 <RyeBrye> Yes, they wont tell us until after it's fixed
Nov 05 23:48:51 <RyeBrye> that goes without saying
Nov 05 23:49:06 <jasta> keny: well shame on you :)
Nov 05 23:49:13 <keny> yes D:
Nov 05 23:49:18 <RyeBrye> I think they all have strict "STFU" orders about discussing anything rleated to it
Nov 05 23:49:22 <Chainfire> doesnt make it better :P
Nov 05 23:50:08 <keny> damn, this had never happened tome. I don't know why i left an open terminal with root on it without actively using it in the first place...
Nov 05 23:50:55 <Chainfire> keny> "if you haven't said "oh shit" while doing something as root, you haven't done UNIX administration in a busy production environment."
Nov 05 23:51:20 <keny> Chainfire, oh yes i have hehe. Just not something as "funny" as this.
Nov 05 23:51:32 <jasta> i once lost a machine
Nov 05 23:51:38 <jasta> (yes i know thats a bash.org quote, but it actually happened to me)
Nov 05 23:51:49 <Chainfire> what, the one in the cupboard?
Nov 05 23:52:01 <keny> jasta, haaha yeah i was just going to post the bash.org quote to you
Nov 05 23:52:03 <jasta> couldn't fuckin' figure out where physically the machine i was working on was
Nov 05 23:52:14 <jasta> i mean really.  it wasn't funny at the time, i was really frustrated.
Nov 05 23:52:26 <jasta> i didnt have any tools to figure it out either
Nov 05 23:52:27 <ttuttle> jasta: How's Five coming along?
Nov 05 23:52:41 <jasta> i ended up putting a cd in every computer in our server area and checking if i could mount it hehe
Nov 05 23:52:50 <keny> lol
Nov 05 23:52:51 <jasta> took forever :\
Nov 05 23:52:52 <Chainfire> rofl
Nov 05 23:53:05 <Chainfire> but the physical server wasnt lost, you just didnt know which one?
Nov 05 23:53:09 <ttuttle> jasta: um, "eject".
Nov 05 23:53:14 <jasta> ttuttle: great.  working on some bugs i discoverd as a result of my regular usage :)
Nov 05 23:53:16 <ttuttle> jasta: or, "while true; do eject; done".
Nov 05 23:53:24 <ttuttle> jasta: Then look for the server with the CD drive cycling in and out.
Nov 05 23:53:26 <Chainfire> i like the cupboard / built into a wall version better
Nov 05 23:53:47 <ttuttle> jasta: /me once found a friend whose cdrom was chmod a+w, so on April Fools' Day I did that remotely.
Nov 05 23:54:00 <mwester> doesn't work with the slim CD drives in the 1u servers though ;)
Nov 05 23:54:04 <ttuttle> :-(
Nov 05 23:54:10 <ttuttle> beep?
Nov 05 23:54:20 <RyeBrye> No LCD panel?
Nov 05 23:54:22 <ttuttle> jasta: So how easy is it to install now?
Nov 05 23:54:40 <RyeBrye> you can write custom crap on those little LCD display things on the dell machines
Nov 05 23:54:52 <mwester> Some of the Dells had (have still?) an intense blue LED on front and rear that can be illuminated remotely to identify the server in the rack.
Nov 05 23:55:07 * RyeBrye has a server looping the entire text of Mobi Dick on a 16-character LCD panel in some server rack somewhere
Nov 05 23:55:18 <RyeBrye> I think it takes it 2 days or something to get all the way through it
Nov 05 23:55:28 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: ...
Nov 05 23:57:50 <Chainfire> so err btw, how does everybody feel about the G1 not having an FPU? :)
Nov 05 23:58:07 <fcrick> man...i plug my g1 into my laptop and i can't access the disk it says please insert disk into volume F: :(
Nov 05 23:58:54 <jbq> Chainfire: par for the course - that's very common for phone CPUs (did you notice that it also can't divide in hardware?)
Nov 05 23:59:16 <spikebike> chainfire not bad at all, the fp heavy stuff is graphics and it does have hardware for that FP
Nov 05 23:59:17 <ttuttle> fcrick: Open the status bar, tap the "USB connected" notification, and tap "Mount".
Nov 05 23:59:20 <cmonex> there are some arm dsps that have div..
Nov 05 23:59:25 <Chainfire> common as in, hey, every phone I ever owned that doesnt have a Qualcomm chipset had it?
Nov 05 23:59:46 <cmonex> Chainfire: which phones ?
Nov 05 23:59:49 <fcrick> ttuttle: yay ty!
Nov 05 23:59:56 <fadden> ...and what did they use the FP support for?
Nov 06 00:00:05 <cmonex> as ive yet to see one with it
Nov 06 00:00:10 <fadden> Making really precise phone calls?
Nov 06 00:00:11 <cmonex> and i've had more than just qc phones
Nov 06 00:00:18 <ttuttle> fcrick: no problem
Nov 06 00:00:19 <jbq> I've worked on many phones and I've never seen one that had an FPU.
Nov 06 00:00:28 <cmonex> fadden: hahaha... no but if you want to run some neat apps..
Nov 06 00:00:41 <jbq> The biggest use case for an FPU on the phone is to run javascript, because it doesn't have a notion of integers.
Nov 06 00:00:50 <Chainfire> how about multimedia? :)
Nov 06 00:00:56 <fadden> cmonex: I can certainly see uses for it with something like Android, but for most phones it doesn't seem useful.
Nov 06 00:01:02 * ttuttle hates JavaScript.
Nov 06 00:01:13 <ttuttle> And Flash.
Nov 06 00:01:18 <Chainfire> graphics stuff is much nicer when floating point is fast, rather than slow.
Nov 06 00:01:57 <cmonex> fadden: i think my problem is ive not used a dumbphone since 2005 :)
Nov 06 00:02:09 <Chainfire> same here
Nov 06 00:02:12 <cmonex> Chainfire
Nov 06 00:02:14 <cmonex> which ones had fpu?
Nov 06 00:02:23 <Chainfire> some of the omap do
Nov 06 00:02:30 <cmonex> really, "some"
Nov 06 00:02:32 <cmonex> :)
Nov 06 00:02:36 <cmonex> my pdaphones all lacked fpu =(
Nov 06 00:02:41 <cmonex> or if it was there nobody used it
Nov 06 00:02:42 <Chainfire> (n95 does too, as does iPhone)
Nov 06 00:03:01 <cmonex> yeah, i dont have n95 or iphone, but good point, i wanted to ask if iphone has it (and uses it?)
Nov 06 00:03:12 <Chainfire> well i assume it uses it...
Nov 06 00:03:17 <spikebike> wow, viewing google doc spreadsheets on the g1 sucks
Nov 06 00:03:19 <spikebike> can't edit
Nov 06 00:03:20 <Chainfire> then again... I'm used to HTC so
Nov 06 00:03:28 <spikebike> can't even scroll to see all columns
Nov 06 00:03:32 <ttuttle> We should make a list of the Google services we want ported to Android, and vote on them.
Nov 06 00:05:36 <cmonex> spikebike: does that work on your n800
Nov 06 00:05:39 <ttuttle> jasta: I've installed musicbrainz-3.0.1 (it includes /usr/lib/libmusicbrainz3.so) but autogen.sh for five-server won't find it.
Nov 06 00:06:05 <spikebike> cmonex pretty sure it does
Nov 06 00:06:14 <spikebike> I'd have to check for this particular spreadsheet
Nov 06 00:06:19 <cmonex> spikebike: i read that it works, yes,.. except i think excel editing?
Nov 06 00:06:28 <cmonex> no, wait it must have been something else :P
Nov 06 00:06:35 <spikebike> well I don't care about the editing as much as the seeing
Nov 06 00:06:40 <cmonex> by "it" i meant the whole google docs
Nov 06 00:06:59 <spikebike> I'd have to check, think so
Nov 06 00:07:08 <spikebike> rather few things work in firefox and not the n800
Nov 06 00:07:26 <spikebike> I kinda expected a google doc to work on the g1 though... at least read only
Nov 06 00:08:46 <cmonex> lol
Nov 06 00:08:54 <cmonex> the 480x320 isnt big enough for it i think..
Nov 06 00:08:56 <cmonex> :P
Nov 06 00:09:16 <ttuttle> Oh, and PDF READER!
Nov 06 00:09:58 <andyross> Yeah, a poppler-based thing would be really useful.  The G1 as a whole is really lacking in document-friendly apps.
Nov 06 00:10:05 <waldo_> has anyone set up a project "sign up board" where people can write app proposals or group together to write them
Nov 06 00:10:05 <spikebike> cmonex there's these things called scroll bars ;-)
Nov 06 00:10:55 <spikebike> I was just hoping for property number, description, and serial number not something with 100 columns or anything
Nov 06 00:11:11 <cmonex> spikebike: horizontal scroll bars can get annoying
Nov 06 00:11:22 <spikebike> the funny thing is that it has horizontal scroll bars
Nov 06 00:11:29 <andyross> Why bother with scrollbars when you have touch scrolling and a trackball?
Nov 06 00:11:29 <spikebike> but that only gets you one more column
Nov 06 00:11:46 <spikebike> andy so you know where you are
Nov 06 00:11:50 <andyross> (I guess the browser does technically have them, but they're tiny 2-pixel transparent things on the screen edges)
Nov 06 00:12:20 <andyross> spikebike: Look at the way the browser represents big scrollable areas.  I think scrollbars are the wrong metaphor.
Nov 06 00:13:27 <spikebike> heh, well philosophical arguments aside, I'd like to see small spreadsheets on my g1
Nov 06 00:14:11 <cmonex> andyross: touch scrolling is even more tiresome.
Nov 06 00:14:29 <cmonex> i dont like iphone for that reason
Nov 06 00:14:35 <cmonex> spikebike: port gnumeric :)
Nov 06 00:14:42 <cmonex> i've yet to try it on my n810 though
Nov 06 00:14:46 <spikebike> expecially when those documents are in a web browser and represent probably 5-10% of the nyt or slashdot home pages
Nov 06 00:14:48 <cmonex> (it's ported to it)
Nov 06 00:14:56 <andyross> You've tried the zoom feature?  I'll be honest, I have an *easier* time navigating big pages on the G1 than in Firefox.
Nov 06 00:15:09 <cmonex> andyross: i guess this is subjective. a PC for me will always win
Nov 06 00:15:17 <cmonex> due to the 1280x1024 and faster cpu
Nov 06 00:15:25 <ttuttle> jasta: "The plugin 'org.jvending.masa.plugins:maven-dx-plugin' does not exist or no valid version could be found
Nov 06 00:15:30 <andyross> I said navigating, not reading.  But getting from one side of the page to another is faster on the phone.
Nov 06 00:15:42 <cmonex> andyross: i meant navigating
Nov 06 00:15:54 <andyross> Then why bring up resolution?
Nov 06 00:15:59 <Chainfire> really? i press the end button
Nov 06 00:16:01 <cmonex> reading is the same as long as the screen is not VERY small
Nov 06 00:16:03 <Chainfire> instant satisfaction.
Nov 06 00:16:17 <cmonex> well, navigating for me is ... the bigger the screen res is the better nav will be for me
Nov 06 00:17:32 <andyross> Apples and oranges, though.  I'm talking about UI metahors for navigating in a page (any page) that is much larger horizontally than the display (any display) size.  The actual size of the display isn't the issue -- of *course* it's easier to read a web page on a 1920x1200 monit.r
Nov 06 00:17:46 <cworth> andyross: A poppler-based PDF viewer would be quite nice.
Nov 06 00:18:03 <andyross> But given a page that is 4x wider than the screen, the G1 is better than the browser at reading it.  It just is.
Nov 06 00:18:57 <Chainfire> i must say ive never encountered a web page thats 4x wider than my PC desktop.
Nov 06 00:19:55 <andyross> The use case was google docs spreadsheets.  Those are routinely enormous.  In a similar vein, I wrote a html report generator here at work with 200 columns.
Nov 06 00:20:52 <andyross> Wide pages are, obviously, "bad design".  But they happen, and especially on small devices you need a UI for dealing with them.  Desktop browsers use horizontal scrollbars.  The G1 has a zoom gadget.  My point was that the latter is just plain better.
Nov 06 00:21:02 <ttuttle> jasta: Lemme know when you're around so you can help me get it set up. ;-)
Nov 06 00:22:04 <cworth> andyross: You mentioned bionic integration earlier. I'm using jimps sugested recipe successfully (with an emdebian toolchain) just great for native builds with -static. What would it take to get from here to a dynamic build?
Nov 06 00:22:16 <cworth> "jimp's"
Nov 06 00:23:55 <andyross> What I did was log a dalvikvm build and snip out the compiler arguments from that.  The prebuilt toolchain works well, but isn't terribly well integrated.  You have to specify -nostdlib and some custom crt.o objects, plus a bunch of other options I forget.
Nov 06 00:24:32 <cworth> andyross: "standard toolchain" meaning what comes with the "android sdk"?
Nov 06 00:25:08 <cworth> andyross: I'm not willing to click through the license agreement there. I do like this clause:
Nov 06 00:25:10 <cworth> 3.4 Use, reproduction and distribution of components of the SDK licensed under an open source software license are governed solely by the terms of that open source software license and not this License Agreement.
Nov 06 00:25:24 <cworth> So I'd be glad to get access only to those components.
Nov 06 00:25:51 <cworth> andyross: Anyway, if you happen to run across the details again and care to share them, that would be great.
Nov 06 00:25:56 <andyross> No, in the source tree.  There's a prebuilt toolchain in there.  It's just built GNU software, so it's GPL.
Nov 06 00:26:05 <cworth> Oh, much better.
Nov 06 00:26:10 <cworth> I'll go look there.
Nov 06 00:26:21 * cworth naively expected the source tree to just have source...
Nov 06 00:26:48 <andyross> I don't think there's much special about it.  It's a little endian arm-eabi target.
Nov 06 00:27:50 <andyross> I have a perl script that wraps the mess into something that looks like a normal gcc.  I got started packing it up into a demo with a little JNI library and application, but got distracted with other toys.
Nov 06 00:28:09 <cworth> Right. So what I have from emdebian is probably fine, (and was easier to get at). I just need a recipe for doing a build against bionic.
Nov 06 00:28:35 <cworth> andyross: Hehe. I understand distractions. But do let me know if you've got that script for me to look at somewhere.
Nov 06 00:28:44 <andyross> Sure, hold on...
Nov 06 00:30:23 <andyross> Here: http://plausible.org/andy/agcc -- YMMV, obviously.  But basically, you need a source checkout with a successful bionic build, and the arm-eabi-* tools from the prebuilt toolchain on your path.
Nov 06 00:31:05 <cworth> andyross: Thanks.
Nov 06 00:31:36 <RyeBrye> Ugh - I have to sign a paper contribuor license agreement?
Nov 06 00:32:07 <RyeBrye> you guys have heard of UETA right?
Nov 06 00:32:22 <danfuzz> i believe it can be done electronically
Nov 06 00:33:02 <RyeBrye> scanning a paper that I sign and emailing a PDF is hardly esigning
Nov 06 00:33:04 <danfuzz> (btw, i had to look up UETA)
Nov 06 00:33:15 <danfuzz> i thought there was a completely electronic way
Nov 06 00:33:22 <danfuzz> my apologies if i was mistaken
Nov 06 00:33:22 <RyeBrye> I worked for a startup that did e-signing for medical stuff...
Nov 06 00:33:24 <RyeBrye> It's ok
Nov 06 00:34:18 <RyeBrye> my patch isn't crucial anyway - it just fixes the htc/dream build so it works
Nov 06 00:34:30 * cworth has never read UETA but seems to be lately running across things of the form "Typing your intials in the text entry below will be considered your signature" which seems specious.
Nov 06 00:34:48 <RyeBrye> The typing-your-initials woudln't hold up
Nov 06 00:35:02 <RyeBrye> I'd say more, but I've got screaming kids I must tame
Nov 06 00:35:03 <cworth> RyeBrye: I would hope and assume not.
Nov 06 00:35:13 <cworth> RyeBrye: Hehe. Good luck.
Nov 06 00:35:16 <danfuzz> i hear sugar water helps
Nov 06 00:35:21 <cworth> (And we're off topic anyway...)
Nov 06 00:35:24 <danfuzz> also coffee ice cream
Nov 06 00:35:24 <RyeBrye> it has to be captured in context, basically... we recorded images on a pdf and stored it and it's 100% the same as wet signature
Nov 06 00:35:36 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 06 00:35:38 <cworth> danfuzz: Sugar always helps, (but only for a very short-term fix).
Nov 06 00:38:53 <tweakt> does anyone know if it's possible to sample audio directly into a memory buffer? or does it have to go to a file first? Wondering how Shazam works...
Nov 06 00:39:24 <tweakt> MediaRecorder doesn't seem to offer many options, unless there's some mock File class I can use
Nov 06 00:39:55 <danfuzz> tweakt: not 100% sure, but i think you have to save to a file. this is probably a good question for one of the mailing lists
Nov 06 01:05:23 <ITechJunkie> is busybox the most complete method to get a shell on android?
Nov 06 01:09:52 <Acsia> shell?
Nov 06 01:10:03 <Acsia> it s an addon ot the current shell
Nov 06 01:10:15 <Acsia> missing binaries
Nov 06 01:10:20 <jasta> well, its a shell too
Nov 06 01:10:38 <Acsia> hey jasta, have you tried five on the G1 yet?
Nov 06 01:11:27 <cworth> ITechJunkie: What does "complete" mean?
Nov 06 01:12:25 <cworth> ITechJunkie: I don't see a noticeable difference between the busybox shell and the original shell. But busybox certainly adds a lot of other useful utilities, (cp for starters).
Nov 06 01:12:28 <ITechJunkie> right. i understand what is. I was just wanting to know if there is a better or more complete method to get a shell on the g1
Nov 06 01:12:43 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: never got the Term app to work?
Nov 06 01:13:17 <ITechJunkie> zhobbs: yeah i did. adb worked thanks
Nov 06 01:13:28 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: cool
Nov 06 01:14:35 <jasta> Acsia: yeah, i use it every day to and from work
Nov 06 01:14:54 <zhobbs> jasta: does it work on edge?
Nov 06 01:15:03 <jasta> well......
Nov 06 01:15:06 <jasta> currently, no.
Nov 06 01:15:12 <ITechJunkie> i'm trying to get the most complete set of binaries for cli
Nov 06 01:15:36 <jasta> although ive been doing some speed tests and i think i can make it work if i use a feature to transcode to 128kbps mp3s
Nov 06 01:15:51 <jasta> because in my tests i get about 130-140kbps over EDGE
Nov 06 01:16:08 <jasta> but meh, over 3G it doesnt matter.  T-Mobile's 3G network is really fast.
Nov 06 01:16:17 <jasta> i test 700kbps+
Nov 06 01:16:40 <Acsia> I might give it a go when I have a minute
Nov 06 01:16:46 <zhobbs> wow, that is pretty fast
Nov 06 01:17:35 <jasta> most of my music is 192kbps, so without reencoding on the server i need 3G to work
Nov 06 01:17:43 <jasta> which is fine, i seem to get 3G everywhere that matters around seattle
Nov 06 01:18:03 <jasta> and it does enough prefetching that losing 3G for a shor twhile isnt a big deal
Nov 06 01:18:18 <unix_infidel> not as bad as I thought it would be here in dallas either...
Nov 06 01:18:23 <unix_infidel> regularly get 700+
Nov 06 01:18:34 <jasta> Acsia: there's one big bug im fixing this week :)
Nov 06 01:18:58 <jasta> Acsia: when downloads fail (which as it turns out is a LOT when youre on the freeway), the retry policy is too broken to work right
Nov 06 01:19:08 <jasta> so you end up with decent signal but the download stalls
Nov 06 01:19:34 <jasta> the fix is not as simple as it seems, i'm basically absorbing some of the sophistication found in the DownloadProvider to make it work optimally
Nov 06 01:19:50 <Acsia> hum k
Nov 06 01:20:12 <jasta> it'll be fixed probably tonight :)
Nov 06 01:20:25 <Acsia> well I ll wait then
Nov 06 01:20:32 <jasta> otherwise yeah it works great
Nov 06 01:20:35 <jasta> i functionally use it all the time
Nov 06 01:20:57 <Acsia> that s really nice
Nov 06 01:21:05 <Acsia> it s a very good idea
Nov 06 01:21:34 <ITechJunkie> what app are you guys talking about?
Nov 06 01:21:47 <Acsia> five
Nov 06 01:21:54 <zhobbs> hmm...I need to know if a service is running, and can't bind or do anything asynchronously
Nov 06 01:22:02 <ITechJunkie> what does it do?
Nov 06 01:23:30 <zhobbs> because you can't do anything asyncronously in a BroadcastReceiver's onReceive(), because the process is considered done when onReceive() is finished...
Nov 06 01:24:35 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: Five streams your library from your desktop to your phone
Nov 06 01:24:51 <zhobbs> ITechJunkie: http://code.google.com/p/five/
Nov 06 01:25:05 <ITechJunkie> cool.is it on the market yet?
Nov 06 01:25:26 <zhobbs> no, don't think it's ready yet
Nov 06 01:25:47 <jasta> zhobbs: you're asking for the impossible.  you need IPC to see if a service is up, and anytime you communicate with another process there will be delay
Nov 06 01:26:11 <jasta> the better strategy would be to start the service with a particular intent and let the service work out what to do in onStart()
Nov 06 01:26:30 <zhobbs> jasta: yeah...I know.  That's what I normally do
Nov 06 01:26:39 <jasta> ITechJunkie: no, it's still in alpha/beta status.
Nov 06 01:27:03 <zhobbs> jasta: but in this case I may or may not want to abort the intent broadcast based on what the service is doing
Nov 06 01:27:04 <ITechJunkie> jasta: i see.
Nov 06 01:27:19 <`vip> any way to see the battery percentage left ?
Nov 06 01:27:28 <`vip> instead of just the color indicator ?
Nov 06 01:27:31 <jasta> `vip: burried in the settings app, yes.
Nov 06 01:27:39 <jasta> buried*
Nov 06 01:28:06 <satadru> quick question: what are the standard perms of /system/bin/sh ?
Nov 06 01:28:44 <`vip> ah thanks jasta found it
Nov 06 01:28:55 <zhobbs> $ ls -l /system/bin/sh
Nov 06 01:28:56 <zhobbs> -rwxr-xr-x root     shell       86936 2008-08-01 08:00 sh
Nov 06 01:29:30 <KNY> hey guys, I need some help signing my applications. I followed the instructions on the site exactly (AFAIK), and I get "package file was not signed correctly" when installing. `jarsigner -verify App.apk` says "jar verified."
Nov 06 01:29:57 <zhobbs> KNY: uninstall the previous installed one, will give that error if keys don't match
Nov 06 01:30:11 <zhobbs> or certs don't match I should say
Nov 06 01:30:21 <KNY> uninstall the previous app?
Nov 06 01:30:24 <satadru> thanks zhobbs
Nov 06 01:30:54 <zhobbs> KNY: well, if eclipse installed your app while you were developing it then it signed it with a debug key
Nov 06 01:31:08 <KNY> yeah, I've tried uninstalling the debug one
Nov 06 01:31:21 <zhobbs> ok
Nov 06 01:32:39 <KNY> also, I can't get `adb devices` to see my phone; I've tried killing adb and restarting and all that (x86_64, linux)
Nov 06 01:32:44 <KNY> but that's another issue
Nov 06 01:33:18 <zhobbs> KNY: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware
Nov 06 01:33:49 <KNY> ahh
Nov 06 01:33:56 <KNY> I'll look into that
Nov 06 01:34:30 <KNY> so, I've uninstalled the debug version, but when I go to install the new version (from HTTP) it says "the application will replace another application"
Nov 06 01:34:35 <KNY> why would it still say that?
Nov 06 01:34:59 <zhobbs> KNY: goes by package name
Nov 06 01:35:01 <zhobbs> I think
Nov 06 01:35:14 <KNY> zhobbs, but I've totally (or so I thought) removed the old app
Nov 06 01:35:15 <xavd> KNY how did you uninstall?
Nov 06 01:35:25 <KNY> xavd, through settings > applications
Nov 06 01:40:03 <KNY> there we go, I got it installed through adb
Nov 06 01:48:12 <`vip> question, do i have to install trak via my PC ?
Nov 06 01:48:16 <`vip> www.trak.fr
Nov 06 01:48:57 <zhobbs> `vip: if it's not on the Market
Nov 06 01:53:17 <KNY> "The certificate that signed this apk must is not valid until the future." Holy crap, Google
Nov 06 01:53:22 <KNY> that's quite the Engrish
Nov 06 01:54:00 <danfuzz> what the your is with problem that?
Nov 06 01:54:19 <KNY> must is not valid until the future?
Nov 06 01:54:23 * Disconnect put his intellishield on tonight, yay
Nov 06 01:54:38 <xavd> KNY: where did you see that?
Nov 06 01:54:50 <KNY> xavd, when uploading my signed app to the market :-/
Nov 06 01:54:53 <danfuzz> fine perfectly to is that seeming me
Nov 06 01:55:01 <KNY> I guess I messed something up ...
Nov 06 01:55:18 <cbeust_> KNY:  I'll pass this on to the Market people
Nov 06 01:55:36 <KNY> cbeust_, thanks. Tell them they can just cut me a check ;)
Nov 06 01:56:04 <KNY> cbeust_, also, you could pass on that I don't see a way to delete uploaded applications--just unpublish them
Nov 06 01:58:15 <cbeust_> KNY: bug filed
Nov 06 01:58:25 <KNY> cbeust_, excellent. Thanks!
Nov 06 01:58:44 <cworth> danfuzz: You channel Yoda well.
Nov 06 02:01:07 <Disconnect> ok its creepy to watch tivo'd simpsons from before the election.
Nov 06 02:02:34 <tweakt> y is that?
Nov 06 02:02:59 <Disconnect> the constant barrage of attack ads is a lot weirder when you know who wins
Nov 06 02:03:09 <tweakt> oooh the ads, yeah, gotcha
Nov 06 02:09:20 <KNY> hey so here's a question: why would the md5sum of a .apk change when downloaded via HTTP?
Nov 06 02:09:44 <KNY> if I md5sum it on the live server, it's different than on the SD card
Nov 06 02:09:55 <cbeust_> gzip-compressed maybe?
Nov 06 02:10:06 <spikebike> same zie on both ends?
Nov 06 02:10:12 <spikebike> I've heard comcast playing strange games
Nov 06 02:10:25 <languish> t-mobile caching server?
Nov 06 02:11:03 <KNY> languish, possibly
Nov 06 02:11:05 <poetic_folly|G5> i see zodttd
Nov 06 02:11:20 <zodttd> :)
Nov 06 02:11:25 <zodttd> hi pf
Nov 06 02:11:27 <poetic_folly|G5> hey guess what
Nov 06 02:11:29 <zodttd> wha?
Nov 06 02:11:31 <poetic_folly|G5> your phone shipped out today
Nov 06 02:11:32 <poetic_folly|G5> :D
Nov 06 02:11:35 <zodttd> YAYS! :)
Nov 06 02:11:40 * zodttd bows
Nov 06 02:11:40 <poetic_folly|G5> yessir
Nov 06 02:11:48 <poetic_folly|G5> courtseys
Nov 06 02:11:50 <poetic_folly|G5> wait wtf
Nov 06 02:11:55 <zodttd> hehe
Nov 06 02:11:56 <KNY> but I think that is what was causing my problem--if I download it, mount the SD card, swap the .APK with the one from the server, then disconnect the phone, and select the .apk from the browser download list, it installs perfectly
Nov 06 02:12:52 <languish> KNY OOOOH that problem
Nov 06 02:12:57 <languish> I know how to fix that
Nov 06 02:13:07 <languish> it's not downloading as the correct mime type
Nov 06 02:13:13 <languish> it's an issue with the browser
Nov 06 02:13:15 <languish> on the g1
Nov 06 02:13:28 <languish> there are a few steps to try, one of them *will* work
Nov 06 02:14:06 <KNY> languish, interesting
Nov 06 02:14:27 <KNY> it just had me worried that I had borked something with the signing procedure
Nov 06 02:15:00 <languish> 1) set the correct mime encoding for apk's in the server settings 2) use the www. of the domain, not just domain.tld if it has a non www. hostname well, try another  3) on the server, change the name of the ,apk, that's all just change the name if it's samhain.apk make it samhain007.apk
Nov 06 02:15:33 <languish> there was one other step, i forget what it was, but.. one or a combo of those will work
Nov 06 02:15:45 <languish> try the last first
Nov 06 02:15:52 <languish> and don't ask for explainations, I have none.
Nov 06 02:16:10 <KNY> languish, haha
Nov 06 02:16:19 <KNY> I'll change it on the server-side
Nov 06 02:16:23 <KNY> do you know what the proper one is?
Nov 06 02:16:43 <languish> you'll also notice.. that the same urls that this occurs with, are the ones that the g1 browser doesn't remember in history or autocomplete dropdown
Nov 06 02:17:39 <languish> KNY it's application/vnd.android.package-archive
Nov 06 02:17:50 <KNY> languish, thanks
Nov 06 02:17:56 <languish> np
Nov 06 02:18:28 <languish> and yeah, google knows about this
Nov 06 02:19:07 <languish> KNY, btw, what version are you running? rc 19, 29?
Nov 06 02:19:21 <languish> or that incomplete bastardization from the uk
Nov 06 02:19:23 <languish> rc7 or something
Nov 06 02:19:28 <KNY> uh
Nov 06 02:19:36 <KNY> whatever shipped with the G1...?
Nov 06 02:19:38 <languish> setting, about phone
Nov 06 02:19:41 <KNY> ah
Nov 06 02:19:42 <KNY> hold
Nov 06 02:20:08 <languish> at the bottom, build number
Nov 06 02:20:18 <KNY> RC 28
Nov 06 02:20:28 <languish> 'k thanks
Nov 06 02:20:46 <languish> jbq
Nov 06 02:20:52 <jbq> hey
Nov 06 02:22:24 <languish> G1's came in handy tonight while shopping with my wife
Nov 06 02:22:31 <KNY> definitely
Nov 06 02:22:35 <KNY> shopsavvy ftw
Nov 06 02:22:41 <languish> that too
Nov 06 02:22:43 <KNY> I keep scanning everything in my hours
Nov 06 02:22:44 <languish> :)
Nov 06 02:22:51 <KNY> languish, haha, well played
Nov 06 02:23:00 <KNY> in my house, too
Nov 06 02:23:22 <languish> :)
Nov 06 02:24:23 <languish> i'm resisting becomming that guy that sticks hidden clear-lable bar codes on everything in the house to catalog
Nov 06 02:24:25 <KNY> one thing the G1 is missing (and maybe someone should write it...?) is that there's no setting to vibrate and then ring after 30 seconds or so
Nov 06 02:24:47 <languish> that's prolly coming down the road
Nov 06 02:25:04 <KNY> languish, it could just be an app, no?
Nov 06 02:25:06 <languish> but you can list it as a feature request
Nov 06 02:25:12 <languish> i guess it could
Nov 06 02:25:35 <KNY> my #1 feature request is a charting API
Nov 06 02:26:07 <cbeust_> KNY: sounds like a good opportunity for a third part, more so than something that would part of the platform
Nov 06 02:26:15 <cbeust_> Ok I can't type tonight
Nov 06 02:26:46 <KNY> cbeust_, yeah. I tried jfreechart and eclipse would die (outofmemoryexception) every time as long as the .jar was on the build path
Nov 06 02:27:02 <cbeust_> KNY: increase the heap used by Eclipse
Nov 06 02:27:26 <xavd> KNY: we use jfreechart in the android tools (ddms and eclipse plugin)
Nov 06 02:27:35 <KNY> xavd, hmm
Nov 06 02:27:44 <KNY> I might have to revisit it, then...
Nov 06 02:28:54 <languish> cbeust_, know if there's a google-developed or sanctioned blogger app in the pipeline?
Nov 06 02:29:03 <languish> aside from 3rd party
Nov 06 02:29:25 <wastrel> what's a charting api?
Nov 06 02:29:25 <cbeust_> Can't comment, sorry.
Nov 06 02:29:31 <wastrel> for like pie charts?
Nov 06 02:29:34 <languish> cbeust_, nod
Nov 06 02:29:47 * languish now has hope :)
Nov 06 02:30:05 <KNY> wastrel, yeah, and bar charts and line graphs
Nov 06 02:30:11 * cbeust_ wonders if there is a way to not comment that won't get anyone to think in any direction...
Nov 06 02:30:19 <KNY> wastrel, http://www.jfree.org/jfreechart/samples.html
Nov 06 02:30:19 <languish> never
Nov 06 02:30:52 <KNY> cbeust_, I'm going to take that as an admission of guilt
Nov 06 02:30:57 <languish> cbeust_ "i couldn't tell you offhand"
Nov 06 02:31:50 <languish> if you're asked to check "if we do or don't it's unlikely i would even be allowed"
Nov 06 02:32:07 <languish> that leaves little room for assumption
Nov 06 02:32:21 * cworth admires the following message:
Nov 06 02:32:22 <cworth> make: *** No rule to make target `Please-install-JDK-5.0,-update-12-or-higher,-which-you-can-download-from-java.sun.com'
Nov 06 02:32:39 <Cedric2_> There, this way nobody will recognize me
Nov 06 02:32:40 <KNY> impressive, cworth
Nov 06 02:32:40 <cworth> I'm a big fan of subverting tools to give users better error messages.
Nov 06 02:32:53 <KNY> hey guys, where did Cedric_ go?
Nov 06 02:33:04 <languish> i think he lept out the window
Nov 06 02:33:09 <KNY> good riddance
Nov 06 02:33:23 <Cedric2_> Watch it, I still have the power
Nov 06 02:34:51 <languish> but you're not here to use it, remember?
Nov 06 02:34:54 <languish> :/
Nov 06 02:35:28 <KNY> Cedric2_, nice, reaching out from beyond the grave
Nov 06 02:36:14 <KNY> hey, is there a built-in control to do the "default" text input things that are used in like, the Google Search box on the main page?
Nov 06 02:36:27 <KNY> where the text is grayed out and disappears once you start typing?
Nov 06 02:37:23 <meoblast001> languish: i fixed up my site.... www.meoblast001.mysticgalaxies.com/ms
Nov 06 02:37:54 <Cedric2_> KNY: it's called a text hint
Nov 06 02:38:00 <Cedric2_> you can configure it in your layout file
Nov 06 02:38:11 <KNY> oh man
Nov 06 02:38:16 <KNY> how did I not see that?
Nov 06 02:38:25 <languish> meoblast001, that's sorta inappropriate
Nov 06 02:38:30 <meoblast001> lol
Nov 06 02:38:36 <languish> while I don't disagree
Nov 06 02:38:38 <KNY> and I put in all this work with focus listeners...
Nov 06 02:38:41 <languish> it's still inappropriate
Nov 06 02:39:02 <meoblast001> actually thats on my personal page i made on my server with a different subdomain.... i made it cuz a friend of mine hates macs
Nov 06 02:39:40 <languish> just be aware that google's a non-discriminatory company
Nov 06 02:39:51 <languish> you could say macs suck :)
Nov 06 02:40:03 <meoblast001> i could... but that only requres 2 Macs
Nov 06 02:40:04 <meoblast001> i made 3
Nov 06 02:40:05 <KNY> languish, how do you know he didn't mean it as a compliment?
Nov 06 02:40:11 <meoblast001> dragged them onto my canvas
Nov 06 02:40:22 <languish> KNY, true, they sure did look like they were having a party
Nov 06 02:40:25 <Chainfire> languish> how about discrimination on location? :) I still cant make a Google Checkout Merchant account...
Nov 06 02:40:58 <languish> Chainfire, ohh I'd say that sucks, but it's regional business policy, not discrimination :)
Nov 06 02:41:08 <languish> or just "not there, yet."
Nov 06 02:42:22 <Chainfire> or just unfair competition, or just bla. discrimination is not an easy word to use and usually to say one does or does not use discriminatory tactics is a folly in itself
Nov 06 02:43:02 <cworth> The make error is similar to what I convinced gcc to spit out for cairo:
Nov 06 02:43:04 <cworth> cairo-text.c:(.text+0x1f): undefined reference to `cairo_current_path_DEPRECATED_BY_cairo_copy_path
Nov 06 02:43:06 <languish> usually regional law is what holds such things up
Nov 06 02:43:31 <languish> i'm sure google would love to have checkout evailable everywhere there's commerce
Nov 06 02:43:35 <Chainfire> for two years... for a company the size of Google? :)
Nov 06 02:43:53 <languish> sure, look at the problems microsoft has with europe
Nov 06 02:44:23 <Chainfire> like ?
Nov 06 02:45:08 <Chainfire> I don't see PayPal having any trouble
Nov 06 02:45:17 <languish> paypals been around a bit longer
Nov 06 02:45:19 <Cedric2_> You don't? :)
Nov 06 02:45:22 <Chainfire> and they're scammers..
Nov 06 02:45:44 <languish> Chainfire, just note.. I had a bad experience with google checkout
Nov 06 02:45:52 <Chainfire> no doubt
Nov 06 02:46:03 <Chainfire> but I wonder if they took $15k from you like PayPal did from me
Nov 06 02:46:18 <languish> the one time I needed them to interact with a vendor that was blaming an issue ON google checkout
Nov 06 02:46:49 <languish> they just kept telling me "go deal with the vendor" because the rep that was handling the issue for google didn't comprehend the issue at all
Nov 06 02:46:58 <jasta> god, spell checking in Eclipse is so irritating
Nov 06 02:47:05 * jasta disables
Nov 06 02:47:11 <Cedric2_> jasta: agree, I just turn it off
Nov 06 02:47:54 <Chainfire> heh, PayPal just completely ignored the issue :) held my cash for almost a year and cost me about $8k in lawyering to eventually get it back. Don't you doubt, all the horror stories you read about them are true. And yet, there is no alternative.
Nov 06 02:48:35 <Chainfire> Once, long ago, when Google Checkout came out I thought change may come... guess I'll be hoping that for the next 4 or 5 years to come.
Nov 06 02:48:35 <languish> Chainfire, and yeah, there's a reason i use paypal as minimally as possible, don't link them to a bank account that will allow an overdraft request, and don't keep money in that account for paypal to suck
Nov 06 02:49:20 <languish> and even then, they're the last option
Nov 06 02:49:55 <languish> i mostly use them to get some small items sold on ebay, then use that money to donate to projects
Nov 06 02:49:57 <Chainfire> yep, but in the meantime, I have the #4 ranked safest CC processor in the world, and people still continuously ask me about PayPal support
Nov 06 02:50:06 <ITechJunkie> hey guys, why doesn't ifconfig have any output on the system?
Nov 06 02:50:19 <Chainfire> ITechJunkie suffix it with the interface name
Nov 06 02:50:27 <Chainfire> its not 'normal' ifconfig
Nov 06 02:51:03 <ITechJunkie> Chainfire: Is there something similar on the system? And can the normal version be ported over?
Nov 06 02:51:26 <Chainfire> ITechJunkie no clue, still waiting for my G1. That's just something I picked up playing with emulator :)
Nov 06 02:51:51 <ITechJunkie> Chainfire: Bummer bro, you live outside the states?
Nov 06 02:51:57 <Chainfire> yeah
Nov 06 02:52:02 <ITechJunkie> UK?
Nov 06 02:52:09 <Chainfire> im importing one though... its already been sent... just waiting for it to arrive
Nov 06 02:52:18 <Chainfire> no Netherlands
Nov 06 02:52:30 <Chainfire> if I was in the UK I would suddenly have a lot less issues... :)
Nov 06 02:52:39 <ITechJunkie> right on. I bet the wait is killing ya
Nov 06 02:52:49 <Chainfire> mwah
Nov 06 02:53:23 <Chainfire> It was... since I know my direct competitors in the US are working on the same thing I am
Nov 06 02:53:47 <Chainfire> But before I didn't release the G1 is just a glorified Java-phone, I actually thought it would be open.
Nov 06 02:53:53 <ITechJunkie> What are you working on?
Nov 06 02:53:58 <KNY> I take what I said about my #1 feature being a charting API
Nov 06 02:54:04 <KNY> there should be a google docs API
Nov 06 02:54:21 <KNY> so I don't have to try and use POI or something
Nov 06 02:56:30 <Hiro2> anybody know how i can get the ringtone files that comes in G1?
Nov 06 02:56:47 <Hiro2> is it on some website? or anyway to grab the file?
Nov 06 02:56:56 <Chainfire> ITechJunkie> now if I told you that, everybody would be doing it :)
Nov 06 02:57:45 <ITechJunkie> Chainfire: I understand bro. Good luck with it, and I'll be keeping an eye out for your name in the Market
Nov 06 02:57:55 <jasta> Chainfire: you must be one of those annoying "precious snowflake" kids.
Nov 06 02:58:11 <Chainfire> "precious snowflake" ?
Nov 06 02:58:27 <Chainfire> ill concede I can be horribly annoying though.
Nov 06 02:58:33 <jasta> if your idea is trivial enough that anyone could do it, and good enough that anyone would, then it's already been done.
Nov 06 02:58:40 <ITechJunkie> Chainfire: lol
Nov 06 02:58:51 <jasta> if not, then you might as well publicly discuss it :)
Nov 06 02:58:56 <Cedric2_> jasta: ideas alone don't make good products
Nov 06 02:59:03 <Cedric2_> lot of people might have tried your idea and failed for different reasons
Nov 06 02:59:08 <Cedric2_> certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't try
Nov 06 02:59:18 <Chainfire> jasta> right :)
Nov 06 02:59:28 <jasta> Cedric2_: i dont think you and i are reading the same conversation :)
Nov 06 02:59:30 <Chainfire> guess that's why I make one of the top-5 selling WM apps and you don't
Nov 06 02:59:57 <Chainfire> and on that, i shall say goodnight.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 06 02:59:57 2008