**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 06 02:59:57 2008 Nov 06 03:00:49 winmob apps eh Nov 06 03:00:56 incidentally, i have been a WM user for years and have yet to encounter a single app worth money Nov 06 03:01:07 the only reason any apps sell is because the builtins are _SO_ terrible Nov 06 03:01:34 and there's no decent community behind the entire platform to build all the trivial apps Nov 06 03:08:49 http://wmwifirouter.com/ heh Nov 06 03:12:58 hehe, i can't wait until he delivers something for Android that lets us pay to use netfilter :) Nov 06 03:14:49 yah doesn't http://graha.ms/androidproxy/ already do that Nov 06 03:15:10 the only thing I shudder at... is the that someone fixes up email really nice and charges 29.99 for Nov 06 03:15:13 it requires USB tethering Nov 06 03:15:25 right Nov 06 03:15:31 something about the winmo developers scare me Nov 06 03:15:39 they charge 9.99 for the flashlight type apps Nov 06 03:15:40 why? Nov 06 03:15:51 because they want to make money? :) Nov 06 03:16:05 romainguy__, making money for crap is still crap Nov 06 03:16:13 silly dev's wanting to make money for their work Nov 06 03:16:25 all that happens is people crack/pirate/steal/whatever their work Nov 06 03:16:26 although $10 for a flashlight app is a bit ridiculous. ;) Nov 06 03:16:38 which is not much better Nov 06 03:16:40 poetic_folly|G5, there is such a thing. Nov 06 03:16:50 i paid $5 for the entire Thriller album the other day in iTunes. Nov 06 03:16:54 perceived value is the issue Nov 06 03:17:03 apps cost money now? Nov 06 03:17:11 I remember back in the day (DOS 3.2) I found a nice 'cls' alternative Nov 06 03:17:13 it cost 10$ Nov 06 03:17:24 Hiro2, there are app stores not the android market, that yes, are charging Nov 06 03:17:27 I mean it was written in ASM, but all it did was a fancy way of clearing your screen Nov 06 03:17:43 languish: how do you install it? Nov 06 03:17:45 Hiro2, and there are apps, that forward you to their own websites to pay as well Nov 06 03:17:47 Hiro2, trials Nov 06 03:17:51 Hiro2, off the web Nov 06 03:17:56 i see Nov 06 03:18:04 are you guys making your own softwares also? Nov 06 03:18:04 you install it, it works a few times, it forwards you to a paypal page saying pay up sucker Nov 06 03:18:23 or you pay the app store itself Nov 06 03:18:39 then download it, and they foward you a code Nov 06 03:18:46 it sucks how i have lots of ideas for apps, but i can't code at all :( Nov 06 03:18:52 or authenticate over the net Nov 06 03:18:58 ic Nov 06 03:19:24 i'm waiting for the one that reads your contact information and spams you to pay for it Nov 06 03:19:54 are there any virus out there for G1 already? Nov 06 03:20:03 or I guess I should say android Nov 06 03:20:08 Nope Nov 06 03:20:24 I doubt a "virus" would do much Nov 06 03:20:30 as it is now you'd have to install it manually Nov 06 03:20:32 so it's not much of a virus Nov 06 03:20:49 if it could get all your pw you enter, gmail, etc Nov 06 03:20:52 that's big risk Nov 06 03:21:15 well the g1 has been rooted Nov 06 03:21:26 elad, but that's not exactly getting your passwords Nov 06 03:21:44 elad: and it requires user intervention Nov 06 03:21:51 nope, but root does help if an app can take advantage of that Nov 06 03:21:55 it's not remotely rooted Nov 06 03:22:00 not yet :O Nov 06 03:22:11 The user has to allow this, I don't see how an antivirus would even work Nov 06 03:22:16 T-Mobile firewalls your device Nov 06 03:22:18 hey guys, I know that the Android Team is supposed to be releasing a virtual keyboard sometime next year. Do you know if anyone else has started developing one that might be out sooner? Nov 06 03:22:30 no one can connect to any port of your G1 on the 3G network Nov 06 03:22:32 only via wifi Nov 06 03:22:40 so realistically someone rooting your G1 remotely is slim Nov 06 03:22:45 ITechJunkie: you can't do it correctly without modifying the framework Nov 06 03:23:23 romainguy__: I'm no programmer, but i'm assuming that it can be done? With a lot of work i'm assuming. Nov 06 03:23:34 ITechJunkie, not decently Nov 06 03:23:46 oh btw, what apps do you guys like? Nov 06 03:23:52 ITechJunkie: to do it right you need to modify the core libraries, which means you need to update the phone Nov 06 03:23:59 and it's not simple Nov 06 03:24:08 romainguy__: Ah Nov 06 03:24:12 anyway it's coming for Q1 2009 Nov 06 03:24:14 android.kernel.org unreliable? Nov 06 03:24:18 (early Q1 possibly) Nov 06 03:24:25 Damn: romainguy__ : thanks for clearing that up Nov 06 03:24:34 np Nov 06 03:26:19 so, anybody with their favorite app? Nov 06 03:26:41 Hiro2: I really like weatherbug Nov 06 03:27:10 ditto Nov 06 03:27:15 ItechJunkie: It's always sunny here in miami... :( I dont think I can enjoy it much Nov 06 03:27:15 Hiro2: and LightRacer is a blast Nov 06 03:27:19 Hiro2: i like the doodle one Nov 06 03:27:30 ItechJunkie: yeah lightracer is pretty good Nov 06 03:27:41 wastrel: what'd doodle? the bluebrush? Nov 06 03:27:46 yeah Nov 06 03:28:03 Hiro2: I'm in oklahoma, I never know whats gonna happen here. Example, yesterday high 80's. Today low 60's and I'm currently under a tornado watch Nov 06 03:28:23 wow Nov 06 03:28:34 Hiro2: no kiddin Nov 06 03:29:37 btw do we have an app that listens what your listening to and tells you what song it is? Nov 06 03:29:41 Hiro2: Shazam is pretty cool too, I have no idea how that even works. Nov 06 03:29:51 what's shazam Nov 06 03:29:53 Hiro2: thats what Shazam is Nov 06 03:29:55 ah Nov 06 03:29:56 +! for shazam Nov 06 03:29:58 lol Nov 06 03:30:01 +1 I mean Nov 06 03:30:02 i don't listen to music Nov 06 03:30:08 Freakin awsome app though Nov 06 03:31:01 I also like imeem, but will be replaced whenever the guys at Pandora stop dragging their ass about making an app for android Nov 06 03:31:21 oh, yeah i wanted to contact them, pandora Nov 06 03:31:34 they took pretty long to come up for iphone, how long do you think they'll take for android? Nov 06 03:32:15 Can be so kind to shared with me the latest Android features? Nov 06 03:32:20 Hiro2: I doubt it'll be as long as the iphone. But the main guy over there doesn't want to devote any of his developers on it just yet. Nov 06 03:32:51 ItechJunkie: how do you know all this? Nov 06 03:34:04 Hiro2: I asked the oracle. Nov 06 03:35:15 ItechJunkie: oracle the software? Nov 06 03:35:27 Hiro2: Oracle=Google Nov 06 03:35:42 :) Nov 06 03:35:59 ItechJunkie: oh, haha ok Nov 06 03:36:53 WOW Nov 06 03:36:56 shazam, awesome Nov 06 03:37:01 it detected the song pretty good Nov 06 03:37:15 that technology needs to go away ;) Nov 06 03:37:17 Hiro2: I'm telling you bro, it's magic Nov 06 03:37:48 ItechJunkie: let's see if it can detect japanese music ;) Nov 06 03:37:49 I dont understand how it does it so quick Nov 06 03:38:03 Hiro2: suhweet Nov 06 03:39:06 crosses fingers Nov 06 03:39:13 first test, tokyo drift theme song Nov 06 03:39:21 not really japanese but, yeah it got it Nov 06 03:39:25 hah nice Nov 06 03:39:33 nice Nov 06 03:39:38 do'h Nov 06 03:40:17 ok, next test pure japanese Nov 06 03:40:24 1st try, fail Nov 06 03:40:31 2nd try Nov 06 03:40:49 fail Nov 06 03:40:51 ok, another song Nov 06 03:41:01 bummer Nov 06 03:41:32 next song, songs that some of ppl in US know, from japan Nov 06 03:41:42 oky guys i'm outta here Nov 06 03:41:58 alrighty Nov 06 03:51:46 jasta: is it safe to call RemoteCallBackList.beginBroadCast() just to get the number of listeners? (ie, just beginBroadcast() and finishBroadcast() without calling each getBroadcastItem(int)) Nov 06 03:52:59 hmm, looks like it's probably ok Nov 06 03:53:35 maybe not efficient, but ok Nov 06 03:55:00 yeah, very ineficient tho Nov 06 03:55:23 especially if you're just testing it for emptiness Nov 06 03:55:35 that's all I want to do Nov 06 03:55:53 might just have to track that in my addListener/removeListener methods Nov 06 03:56:10 heyyyy Nov 06 03:56:40 zhobbs: you could extend it and track that Nov 06 03:56:57 any smart phone commercially that comes with Android for common use in routine (I'm software engineer)? Nov 06 03:57:02 just make sure to synchronize :) Nov 06 03:57:13 :( can anyone see me ? Nov 06 03:57:16 anybody know who takes streetview images? Nov 06 03:57:31 Hiro2: its this guy named john Nov 06 03:57:40 jasta: that's true, maybe I should just extend it Nov 06 03:57:45 Disconnect: does his last name happen to be smith? Nov 06 03:57:55 i'm pretty sure its not Nov 06 03:58:04 zhobbs: they dont let you have access to mCallbacks, but thats how they synchronize, so you'd basically have to wrap the entire thing in order to preserve thread safety Nov 06 03:58:15 Disconnect: isn't it some company partnered up with google that's taking all those images? Nov 06 03:58:19 and you'd lose a lot of efficiency that way Nov 06 03:58:24 since there would be two monitor locks instead of 1 Nov 06 03:58:40 on that note, i'm often frustrated by the fields that google chooses to keep private instead of protected. Nov 06 03:59:14 jasta: I agree...I find myself cursing some private fields Nov 06 03:59:30 in a lot of cases you have to inefficiently work around it Nov 06 03:59:53 which is not a win for a mobile platform, even to promote a simpler stable interface Nov 06 04:00:47 in the case of RemoteCalbackList, though, i wonder why they synchronize on mCallbacks and not this Nov 06 04:01:01 if they synchronized on this, then you could wrap it easily. Nov 06 04:01:31 my G1 has in the last 20 minutes having home stoping responding Nov 06 04:01:49 dgilmore: the browser seems to do this. Nov 06 04:02:41 im getting a message that says "Sorry! Activity Home (in process android.process.acore) is not responding." witha force close or wait button that doesnt work Nov 06 04:03:30 dgilmore - pull the battery and reboot? Nov 06 04:03:42 RyeBrye: done that three times Nov 06 04:04:39 dgilmore - did you try booting into safe mode? Nov 06 04:04:52 RyeBrye: how do i do that? Nov 06 04:05:45 hold down menu when you turn it on Nov 06 04:13:56 anyone have dropbear builds? Nov 06 04:14:07 I do for dropbear client Nov 06 04:14:13 and for scp Nov 06 04:14:19 ... they are part of the normal android build :) Nov 06 04:14:21 looking for server Nov 06 04:14:23 (not installed, but in the SDK build) Nov 06 04:15:34 or notes on doing cross-builds with teh platform code Nov 06 04:16:13 I know people say they've installed sshd or whatever - but I wonder how they configure it Nov 06 04:16:26 it's not like password-based auth would work with a system with no passwords Nov 06 04:16:50 I cannot believe Sprint! They give new customers a prorated ETF but not their exisiting customers!!! Nov 06 04:16:52 key auth maybe? Nov 06 04:17:03 yeah, key auth would likely work Nov 06 04:17:19 nevermind, was missing a thread Nov 06 04:18:02 dgilmore - did that fix it? Nov 06 04:18:19 RyeBrye: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2868643&postcount=43 with a crypted password (dropbear doesn't allow passwordless auth) Nov 06 04:18:22 RyeBrye: its not booting into safe mode Nov 06 04:18:44 dgilmore - have you done anything funky to the phone/ Nov 06 04:19:01 RyeBrye: nope Nov 06 04:19:27 i was looking at a photo i took, and it went wonky Nov 06 04:20:16 mount -o remount,rw /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system in your post can be trimmed down... "mount -o remount rw /system" works too Nov 06 04:20:29 only with busybox. w/ default you need the long one Nov 06 04:20:40 dgilmore - one thing you can try that is relatively safe is to do the SDcard update Nov 06 04:20:54 dgilmore - it doesn't delete any data but would purge your /system directory Nov 06 04:21:09 dgilmore - do you have an SD Card that didn't come with the phone in there? the ones that came with the phone are sometimes funky Nov 06 04:21:21 RyeBrye: is it documented somewhere? Nov 06 04:21:28 i have the one it came with Nov 06 04:21:42 Disconnect - no, I'm positive I've used the shorter one every time Nov 06 04:21:59 Disconnect, and I don't have mount pointing to busybox on my machine and I use the shorter one every time for all the filesystems Nov 06 04:22:07 pretty sure I'd used dropbear with a cert on the n800 Nov 06 04:22:15 hrm, maybe I installed osshd Nov 06 04:22:54 n800 is a totally different animal Nov 06 04:23:07 well I figure dropbear = dropbear Nov 06 04:23:27 yah but n800 has standard auth Nov 06 04:23:43 dgilmore what happpened? Nov 06 04:23:51 ah i see Nov 06 04:24:08 it would be nice if the kernel supported ext2/3 or we could format the SD Card to be usable for apps Nov 06 04:24:15 then we should shove apps onto it Nov 06 04:24:49 i'd try a hard reset first, before reflash.. Nov 06 04:25:27 ioerror mentioned getting that to work Nov 06 04:25:37 I think he just made a link Nov 06 04:25:39 spikebike, what? Nov 06 04:25:49 The kernel does support yaffs2 Nov 06 04:25:55 didn't you mention extending the application storage with making a link to the sd card? Nov 06 04:25:57 spikebike, i got an error about cross-device symlink Nov 06 04:25:57 So you could format an sdcard with that non vfast file system Nov 06 04:26:04 or try a loop device on a file Nov 06 04:26:16 ioerror, right... but how do you make a yaffs2 filesystem? wikipedia says there is no 'formatting'? Nov 06 04:26:20 Howdy folks - I can use requestWindowFeature to turn off the title. But how do I turn off the notification window shade? Nov 06 04:26:40 hard links can't cross filesystems, did you try a soft link? Nov 06 04:26:44 Damm, mkfs? Nov 06 04:27:25 cmonex: ive pulled the battery at least 5 times now Nov 06 04:27:36 lethalcode: getWindow().setFlags(WindowManager.LayoutParams.FLAG_FULLSCREEN, WindowManager.LayoutParams.FLAG_FULLSCREEN); Nov 06 04:27:37 lethalcode: you need to use the theme Theme.NoTitleBar.Fullscreen Nov 06 04:27:43 zhobbs: it's better to use a theme Nov 06 04:27:44 ioerror, hrmph i seemed to have missed that :) Nov 06 04:27:48 this avoids the window to be launched not fullscreen Nov 06 04:27:52 dgilmore: i mean hard reset from recovery mode. Nov 06 04:27:53 and therefore avoids the "flicker" Nov 06 04:27:58 same goes for removing the titlebar Nov 06 04:28:02 RyeBrye: pastebin hang on Nov 06 04:28:09 there is an option in there for clearing data Nov 06 04:28:22 RyeBrye: http://pastebin.ca/1246506 Nov 06 04:28:51 cmonex: i cant get to recovery mode Nov 06 04:28:56 Disconnect - oh, did you point to busybox for your mount? Nov 06 04:29:01 zhobbs, romainguy_ - Thanks! Nov 06 04:29:08 Has anyone managed to hack their boot screen? Nov 06 04:29:11 romainguy_: hmm, never noticed the flicker Nov 06 04:29:20 well if you don't use a theme Nov 06 04:29:26 the window will start with a title bar and not fullscreen Nov 06 04:29:32 and then will switch to title bar + fullscreen Nov 06 04:29:42 it's especially noticeable when you turn on window animations Nov 06 04:29:52 so, use a theme :) Nov 06 04:29:56 (and it's easier) Nov 06 04:29:59 RyeBrye: no check the pastebin. system mount rejects anything that doesn't have "source target" Nov 06 04:30:15 Disconnect - you put in a comma... DONT Nov 06 04:30:16 :P Nov 06 04:30:19 # mount -o remount rw /system Nov 06 04:30:20 romainguy_: do you know the line to add to an existing theme for fullscreen? Nov 06 04:30:31 romainguy_: true is the titlebar Nov 06 04:30:33 RyeBrye: right. because that says "mount with options 'rewrite' rw on /system" Nov 06 04:30:41 RyeBrye: the comma is important Nov 06 04:30:45 I guess I can find it now that I have the source Nov 06 04:30:55 zhobbs: I don't remember, look at common/res/values/themes.xml in the git tree Nov 06 04:31:03 romainguy_: thanks Nov 06 04:31:07 Disconnect, I know - it's normally important - but their build is weird. I promise you the command I just pasted is what i use every single time and it works every single time Nov 06 04:31:10 ioerror, hrm, permission denied in terminal Nov 06 04:31:13 can't find it in the shell? Nov 06 04:32:15 Damm, get a real linux box Nov 06 04:32:21 Damm, mount your sdcard Nov 06 04:32:29 determine the raw device, say like /dev/sda1 Nov 06 04:32:34 and then mkfs Nov 06 04:32:34 ioerror, uh I run linux... It doesn't have yaffs2 Nov 06 04:32:42 format it ext3? Nov 06 04:33:03 Damm, custom kernel? Nov 06 04:33:07 Or a distro? Nov 06 04:33:11 custom kernel Nov 06 04:33:42 lethalcode: it's true in case you want it in an existing theme Nov 06 04:33:43 I imagine two things are relevant, you may want to look at the kernel sources that android ships with Nov 06 04:33:49 the second is http://www.yaffs.net/ Nov 06 04:33:59 Specifically, http://www.yaffs.net/node/346 Nov 06 04:34:46 dgilmore: are you sure? did you properly follow the streps? what happens? Nov 06 04:34:56 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/13235642ebccd249?pli=1 Nov 06 04:35:29 I don't have my phone attached to my laptop, so i haven't even looked to see if there's a mkfs anywhere on the device Nov 06 04:35:39 danfuzz, are you around? Nov 06 04:36:14 zhobbs: Thanks! Nov 06 04:36:22 ioerror, ah this should be a load of fun. Nov 06 04:37:16 Damm, If you check out the full android source, you should see : ./external/yaffs2 Nov 06 04:37:32 stupid Mac OS X Nov 06 04:37:40 ioerror, i've had a very painful time doing repo sync Nov 06 04:37:42 Or ./kernel/fs/yaffs2 Nov 06 04:38:13 i've yet to be able to get a full repo sync... last time i tried (a few hours ago) android.kernel.org failed me Nov 06 04:39:07 Damm, in ./external/yaffs2/yaffs2/utils/ - you should see 'mkyaffs2image.c' and 'mkyaffsimage.c' Nov 06 04:39:13 Those might be useful, I have no real idea Nov 06 04:39:22 * ioerror is compiling them now Nov 06 04:39:22 ioerror, creates an image... i guess I can dd it Nov 06 04:39:35 yeah I already compiled them, snagged it from aleph one's cvs Nov 06 04:39:42 aleph one Nov 06 04:39:45 huh? Nov 06 04:39:48 Elias? Nov 06 04:40:03 export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous@cvs.aleph1.co.uk:/home/aleph1/cvs cvs logon Nov 06 04:40:09 cvs login, no password... cvs co yaffs2 Nov 06 04:40:17 cmonex: i held down menu then pressed power. it started then i get nothing other than keyboard backlight Nov 06 04:40:17 from yaffs.net :) Nov 06 04:40:39 and theirs compiles Nov 06 04:40:44 where as clearly i'm 64bit Nov 06 04:40:46 ah, not the guy that wrote smashing the stack for fun and profit Nov 06 04:40:47 heh Nov 06 04:40:47 * Damm twitches Nov 06 04:41:06 Damm, Nov 06 04:41:07 cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ Nov 06 04:41:10 err Nov 06 04:41:17 ? Nov 06 04:41:25 mkyaffsimage is the tool you want Nov 06 04:41:37 yep Nov 06 04:41:38 it takes a directory and it makes an image of that directory Nov 06 04:41:47 it also can deal with big endian v little endian Nov 06 04:41:50 dgilmore: you have to press alt something too, iirc Nov 06 04:42:11 image: VMS Alpha executable Nov 06 04:42:14 that's disturbing Nov 06 04:42:30 that'll let you mount -o loop an image Nov 06 04:42:37 cmonex: is there some documentation i can read somewhere? Nov 06 04:42:39 not exactly my goal but eh it's close Nov 06 04:43:11 Damm, i assume that once you have such an image, you should be able to mount it, modify it, etc and eventually put it into your sd card Nov 06 04:43:15 I hope that helps Nov 06 04:43:16 dgilmore: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2847622&postcount=77 Nov 06 04:43:27 ioerror, it does. Nov 06 04:43:34 apparently Alt+W is the hard reset Nov 06 04:43:41 after you get the menu options.. Nov 06 04:43:41 :) Nov 06 04:43:59 so what's this about an unsigned bootloader? Nov 06 04:44:50 ioerror - not at the HTC bootloader level, but easily done in the anroid recovery mode Nov 06 04:45:03 RyeBrye, so single user mode? Nov 06 04:45:37 Any idea what the format of this file name is? Nov 06 04:45:40 No, not really single user mode - but using the existing recovery mode but modifying what it checks for Nov 06 04:45:41 signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq.TC4-RC19+RC28.zip Nov 06 04:46:08 I'd like to see what other releases are on the site but I don't understand what the 115247 number means, i assume a build id Nov 06 04:46:12 Yeah Nov 06 04:46:23 I think RC19 was released on there somewhere Nov 06 04:46:31 I have RC19 and RC29 Nov 06 04:46:35 well Nov 06 04:46:41 RC19 is the one that the phone shipped with Nov 06 04:46:51 Right Nov 06 04:47:02 but for some reason an OTA update exists for it Nov 06 04:47:08 yaeh Nov 06 04:47:12 that was for us Nov 06 04:47:15 Oh :) Nov 06 04:47:20 well, my site survived a day of /. but my analytics didnt :( Nov 06 04:47:30 my analytics shut down after 10k visits Nov 06 04:47:40 what's the url of that? Nov 06 04:47:45 of what Nov 06 04:47:50 of the first image? Nov 06 04:47:52 ota? Nov 06 04:47:59 gimme a min, i got em both on my site Nov 06 04:48:01 there is a link in the xda forums somewhere Nov 06 04:48:04 you can't downgrade btw Nov 06 04:48:05 or DarkriftX has them Nov 06 04:48:12 I've never upgraded Nov 06 04:48:24 you want google link or rapidshare? Nov 06 04:48:30 I just want to unpack them and see what's in the sqllite databases without having to use a debugger on an airplane Nov 06 04:48:34 google Nov 06 04:48:44 I've accomplished everything I think I wanted to with root on the phone... now I'm going to focus on building apps :) Nov 06 04:48:46 and do you want the first ota (rc19) or the second (rc29) Nov 06 04:49:06 RyeBrye, did you find a way to keep root through upgrades? Nov 06 04:49:18 DarkriftX, the first Nov 06 04:49:21 i think i have the second Nov 06 04:49:25 ioerror - yeah, my recovery mode only accepts things signed with a key I hold now :) Nov 06 04:49:38 RyeBrye, did you document it? Nov 06 04:49:50 erm.... i dont have the google link Nov 06 04:49:51 RyeBrye, you created your own ca then? Nov 06 04:50:00 DarkriftX, what's the file name? Nov 06 04:50:01 i have it hosted on my site, but not the orig link Nov 06 04:50:14 signed-kila-ota-114235-prereq.TC4-RC19.zip Nov 06 04:50:21 ioerror - not yet - right now I'm just using the default testing one in the open source build Nov 06 04:50:47 RyeBrye, so you've flashed your own imag?E Nov 06 04:50:51 althouh ioerror - it is theoretically possible that I could be dumb enough to unpack and resign an OTA update without ensuring that I maintained root I suppose Nov 06 04:50:53 (awesome, if so) Nov 06 04:51:15 ioerror - I didn't but I was working with dream_kill today and he did his Nov 06 04:51:26 he had more balls than me I guess :) Nov 06 04:51:27 ioerror, try to add the google url to the front of that one Nov 06 04:51:37 DarkriftX, no go Nov 06 04:51:39 oh well Nov 06 04:51:43 i got what i wanted Nov 06 04:51:44 its hosted on my site Nov 06 04:51:45 but Nov 06 04:51:50 you have to reg to click the link Nov 06 04:51:50 RyeBrye, that's awesome Nov 06 04:51:56 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2869725&posted=1#post2869725 that guy talks about flashing too Nov 06 04:52:00 RyeBrye, i really want to unlock my phone in the next week Nov 06 04:52:02 http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=20&t=147&rb_v=viewtopic Nov 06 04:52:56 There is one thing left that I'm considering, which is to backup everything to the SDcard - and then blow out /cache and /data and and resize /cache to 10 megs and /data to much bigger Nov 06 04:53:04 then restore all from the SD card Nov 06 04:53:08 (all the /data) Nov 06 04:53:13 * cworth is delighted with andyross's agcc script Nov 06 04:53:33 hrm, it appears that there are some interesting things in that .zip Nov 06 04:53:35 RyeBrye, have you tried moving an installed android app to sd and symlinking it? Nov 06 04:53:42 DarkriftX - I haven't Nov 06 04:53:46 DarkriftX - does that work? Nov 06 04:53:51 or even moving the internet cache to card and symlinking that? Nov 06 04:53:52 Did you guys read the isec paper? Nov 06 04:53:53 im sure it would Nov 06 04:54:09 DarkriftX - Moving /cache to SDCard would be cool :) Nov 06 04:54:11 http://isecpartners.com/files/iSEC_Securing_Android_Apps.pdf Nov 06 04:54:18 If you guys haven't read that, I really really suggestit Nov 06 04:54:22 isec++ Nov 06 04:55:24 that looks like a good read Nov 06 04:55:33 Has anyone unpacked radio.img? Nov 06 04:55:38 It looks like a job for Ida Pro Nov 06 04:55:45 Yeah, I think some people are working on it Nov 06 04:56:03 interesting Nov 06 04:56:15 I'm mostly interested in the OS layer stuff... I'm a developer not a radio hacker Nov 06 04:56:24 take a look at META-INF/com/google/android/update-script Nov 06 04:56:38 specifically, set_perm for ping Nov 06 04:56:41 Yep, that's what does the updating - the commands there are interpreted by some stuff Nov 06 04:56:52 * RyeBrye is very specific with "some stuff" Nov 06 04:57:08 This platform is really pretty sweet Nov 06 04:57:19 It's absolutely the best phone platform out there if you can get ownership of your device Nov 06 04:57:20 yes, I agree Nov 06 04:57:25 Yes, it really is Nov 06 04:57:42 RyeBrye: I tried the shorter command when I first did a remount (I didn't have any instructions in front of me), and I'm sure it failed and I created by giving it device and path. Nov 06 04:57:53 Google had some of the best people in the world on this project (people from the sidekick team + other googlers) Nov 06 04:57:58 cworth - did you have a comma in it? Nov 06 04:58:11 cworth - if you have a comma in it, it will fail Nov 06 04:58:20 (the short version) Nov 06 04:58:32 these images are just mtd block device images, no? Nov 06 04:58:41 RyeBrye: Yes, I had a comma. Nov 06 04:58:52 cworth - try the short version again without a comma Nov 06 04:58:58 RyeBrye: But I had the comma in both the short and long versions. Nov 06 04:59:01 cworth - someone has a bug in their mount command :) Nov 06 04:59:08 cworth - yes, in the LONG version, the comma works Nov 06 04:59:09 RyeBrye: Heh. Will try next time. Nov 06 04:59:16 RyeBrye: Bizarre. Nov 06 04:59:20 maybe we should patch it so it works properly :) Nov 06 04:59:25 * cworth is still catching up on backlog Nov 06 04:59:45 Anyone replace the kernel yet? Nov 06 05:00:12 I've not heard of anyone doing it Nov 06 05:00:20 it's not possible is it? Nov 06 05:00:29 the OTA updates do, don't they? Nov 06 05:00:32 oh wait Nov 06 05:00:47 maybe they don't Nov 06 05:00:47 I thought the kernel was signed Nov 06 05:01:03 Yeah, I think replacing the kernel could be a bad idea Nov 06 05:01:14 actually I was curious if the initrd could be replaced, it overwrites / Nov 06 05:01:30 is it in the OTA update? Nov 06 05:01:31 well it shouldn't brick, might have to do a factory restore though Nov 06 05:01:42 dunno Nov 06 05:01:52 the factory restore sits on top of linux Nov 06 05:02:10 if you are flashing the underbelly out from under it, then you remove the restore and the OS at the same time Nov 06 05:02:16 RyeBrye: seriously, it doesn't work. http://pastebin.ca/1246538 Nov 06 05:02:46 RyeBrye: Ah, your own signing key for recovery mode. Nice! Nov 06 05:03:17 RyeBrye: it only does that because it defaults to rw mounts. so "-o remount screwthisnoise /system" would have the same effect Nov 06 05:03:27 but -o remount ro doesn't work Nov 06 05:03:36 Ah, gotcha :) Nov 06 05:03:40 * RyeBrye stands corrected Nov 06 05:04:00 I've only ever wanted to mount rw - so I guess that's why Nov 06 05:06:15 awesome. just gotta convince dropbear the root user exists (it doesn't like the faked-up /etc/passwd) [7728] Nov 06 05:05:39 login attempt for nonexistent user from 192.168.0.121:51525 Nov 06 05:07:02 hrm, there aren't any sqlite databases in this .zip? Nov 06 05:07:14 RyeBrye: I'll agree with "best phone platform" after I see if I can actually take ownership of my own device. :-) Nov 06 05:07:23 RyeBrye, have you unpacked the recovery.img? Nov 06 05:07:36 ioerror - no... but I've built one Nov 06 05:07:57 romainguy, you got any ideas about users? Nov 06 05:07:57 ioerror: what sqlite databases do you want to look at? Nov 06 05:08:02 romainguy, all of them Nov 06 05:08:03 there's no database in the system image Nov 06 05:08:07 they are created in your data partition Nov 06 05:08:31 romainguy_, I'm trying to figure out the mystery of this telnetd weirdness Nov 06 05:08:35 I bought 2 g1's Nov 06 05:08:40 spikebike++ Nov 06 05:08:48 spikebike, want to meet at the hacklab tomorrow? Nov 06 05:08:49 same store, same minute, off adjacent spots on the shelf Nov 06 05:09:07 I got an update last night, wife has no update 8-( Nov 06 05:09:13 they are random Nov 06 05:09:17 completely random Nov 06 05:09:19 * spikebike knows not of the hacklab Nov 06 05:09:22 not really random :) Nov 06 05:09:29 shush! Nov 06 05:09:29 but they're not pushed to everybody at the same time Nov 06 05:09:30 oh maybe by IMEI or something Nov 06 05:09:38 its random madness! random i tell you! Nov 06 05:09:44 spikebike, https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Getting_Here Nov 06 05:09:46 * DarkriftX settles down Nov 06 05:09:51 spikebike - I heard it's based on the Android ID Nov 06 05:10:10 romainguy_, do you have all of the files hosted somewhere? Nov 06 05:10:17 what files? Nov 06 05:10:24 so romainguy do you have any ideas on what to do about ssh not working because no users? is there a way to create users, or any other idas? Nov 06 05:10:32 DarkriftX: no idea Nov 06 05:10:47 to be honest, I don't give a shit about the low layers of the platform :) Nov 06 05:11:26 ioerror ah, interesting, is something in particular going on? Nov 06 05:11:28 romainguy, the files in / on the g1 ;-) Nov 06 05:11:33 that would be 3 ish hours in a car Nov 06 05:11:37 spikebike, not unless we're hacking on android all night Nov 06 05:11:43 ioerror: they're on the phone Nov 06 05:11:47 heh Nov 06 05:11:48 or if you want easier access, in the emualtor Nov 06 05:11:50 romainguy, well, yes Nov 06 05:11:56 romainguy, actually, perhaps you know Nov 06 05:11:58 so I still don't get what you want Nov 06 05:12:01 RyeBrye: But if kernel updates are not possible, then the hardware's pretty boring to me. Nov 06 05:12:06 well, I have neither in front of me Nov 06 05:12:17 then download the SDK :) Nov 06 05:12:29 not ready for anything like that, need to review that modile auth url you sent and decide if I should use/help with that or do something completely different Nov 06 05:12:29 romainguy, Perhaps you know this? Why does telnetd have uid/gid of root when launched as a normal user? Nov 06 05:12:45 ioerror: no I don't know Nov 06 05:12:49 ioerror that's quite a good puzzle Nov 06 05:12:53 it's pretty wacky Nov 06 05:13:04 cworth - we need to hack the HTC bootloader to give us a safety net Nov 06 05:13:47 hmm. i've convinced 'id' and such that i'm legit. but not dropbear. Nov 06 05:14:20 RyeBrye, someone is working on that already Nov 06 05:14:25 and getting close Nov 06 05:14:45 If we can get fastboot on the HTC bootloader, I'm so going to pee myself Nov 06 05:15:00 RyeBrye: TMI Nov 06 05:15:08 :) Nov 06 05:16:35 how to run activitycreator, from android source? Nov 06 05:16:41 don Nov 06 05:16:45 oops Nov 06 05:16:50 muthu, are you having problems with eclipse? Nov 06 05:17:03 gambler: am not using eclipse Nov 06 05:17:09 ok.. Nov 06 05:17:11 checked out the source.. did make Nov 06 05:17:14 muthu: it's a java app now Nov 06 05:17:25 oh Nov 06 05:17:27 muthu: so if you run it, it should just DTRT Nov 06 05:17:30 ioerror my theory is the binary is signed and there's a sql table that has signature <-> auth Nov 06 05:17:40 gdsx: its not setting the path right.. Nov 06 05:17:50 muthu: it works only with the SDK Nov 06 05:17:53 spikebike, yes, that's why i'd like to see the sql table! Nov 06 05:17:55 gdsx, does the eclipse android auto-update? all of a sudden im having tons of problems with android on eclipse. Nov 06 05:18:06 romainguy_: hmmm.. Nov 06 05:18:12 gambler: dunno; I've never used eclipse Nov 06 05:18:19 :/ lucky you Nov 06 05:18:22 muthu: what are you trying to do? Nov 06 05:18:32 gambler: yeah, sorry Nov 06 05:18:35 add some improvements to activitycreator Nov 06 05:18:40 like running tests etc., Nov 06 05:19:08 muthu: tests in what sense? Nov 06 05:19:11 want to generate a test folder and a test build.xml which can run your tests Nov 06 05:19:19 instrumentation Nov 06 05:19:51 just like the apidemos Nov 06 05:20:05 do you guys know where i can download the default ringtones from android? or how i can grab it myself? Nov 06 05:20:22 they're probably in the open source tree Nov 06 05:20:47 romainguy: where? Nov 06 05:20:52 source.android.com Nov 06 05:20:53 muthu: if you do `find -i 'activitycreator*'`, do you find anything? Nov 06 05:20:59 it's in tools/ Nov 06 05:21:03 gdsx: yes, it in out Nov 06 05:21:27 i can run them, except.. the template directory needs to be set right Nov 06 05:21:46 muthu: well, where's the source for it? Nov 06 05:21:47 which is what the script used to do, before Nov 06 05:21:56 gdsx: the source is in development/tools Nov 06 05:22:19 romainguy: i cant find tools Nov 06 05:22:26 muthu: is the template directory not where it should be? can you not find it at all? If not, can you just borrow it from the SDK? Nov 06 05:22:31 Hiro2: I wasn't talking to you :) Nov 06 05:22:32 (and file a bug) Nov 06 05:22:35 oh oops Nov 06 05:22:37 Hiro2: the ringtones are in the common resources Nov 06 05:22:42 gdsx: yeah, the templates cannot be found.. its a bug Nov 06 05:22:46 no Nov 06 05:22:54 activitycreator is meant to be run from the SDK Nov 06 05:22:58 you need to build the SDK Nov 06 05:23:02 as in make sdk Nov 06 05:23:05 romainguy: im sorry, can you read me? Nov 06 05:23:14 romainguy: im sorry, can you link me* Nov 06 05:23:15 romainguy_: make sdk, doesn' generate the sdk Nov 06 05:23:22 weird Nov 06 05:23:24 all it does is generate sdk docs Nov 06 05:23:37 it doesn't generate the SDK zip in out/? Nov 06 05:23:44 nope Nov 06 05:24:04 which is frustrating.. since we don't know how you guys do it Nov 06 05:24:14 as I said several times Nov 06 05:24:20 the git tree is totally different from our internal tree Nov 06 05:24:24 so things are a bit flaky Nov 06 05:24:27 we're working on it Nov 06 05:24:32 ohhhh ok Nov 06 05:24:55 romainguy, regarding out discussion the other day, I was able to get beanshell running on android no problem, but not groovy. Nov 06 05:24:58 kinda weird. Nov 06 05:24:59 you've seen the size of the tree, that can give you an idea on how complex it is to switch to a new tree layout on a new version control system :)) Nov 06 05:25:02 romainguy, anyone inside google using groovy on android? Nov 06 05:25:05 i'd expect them to be similar if not exact Nov 06 05:25:11 gambler: yeah I'm not surprised, Groovy relies a lot on dynamic stuff Nov 06 05:25:15 should be fairly straightforward to generate tests and instrumentaton et al Nov 06 05:25:16 gambler: not that I know of Nov 06 05:25:20 romainguy: any hints on abusing the cross-compile toolchain? Nov 06 05:25:21 :) Nov 06 05:25:22 Damm: well they're not Nov 06 05:25:24 Damm: "surprise!" Nov 06 05:25:32 Disconnect: why abuse it? can't you just use it? Nov 06 05:25:36 clearly Nov 06 05:26:27 well any use is 'abuse' since its not supported. Nov 06 05:26:38 muthu: anyway, let me know how this stuff goes. Instrumentation is at least partly my baby now Nov 06 05:27:04 gdsx: i can't work on it, since would not be able to test it right Nov 06 05:27:20 but here's what needs to be done: Nov 06 05:27:26 muthu: did you sourced envsetup.sh? Nov 06 05:27:33 yep Nov 06 05:27:38 -d Nov 06 05:27:48 ? Nov 06 05:28:14 create tests folder, and do almost the same as that of main Nov 06 05:28:22 instead of activity, create activityinstrumentationtest Nov 06 05:28:30 that's it Nov 06 05:28:50 and include a target that can do 'adb shell...' Nov 06 05:29:44 Another Q: When switching apps (by pressing the 'Home' button), my app quits, then restarts when home'd back to. Nov 06 05:29:54 muthu: unfortunately, I have other highish-priority stuff to work on Nov 06 05:30:11 muthu: when I make sdk, it build everything, not just the docs Nov 06 05:30:22 lethalcode: define "quits" Nov 06 05:30:28 What I'd like to do is have it running until it's explicitly quit by the user: Most notably because it generally takes a long time to finish it, and I want them to feel free to check e-mail, reply to SMS, etc. Nov 06 05:30:34 romainguy: Presses back instead of home. Nov 06 05:30:35 romainguy_: Is that the same as just "make" or different? Nov 06 05:30:44 Is all of the software of G1 compiled from google's release source codes? Nov 06 05:30:47 lethalcode: have you read the docs about how Android apps work? Nov 06 05:31:04 lethalcode: The android app lifecycle, I believe it's called Nov 06 05:31:07 gdsx: Aye. I *could* use savedStateBundle to fake it, but that still costs a lot in preload time. Nov 06 05:31:09 romainguy_: yeah, our env is different Nov 06 05:31:17 lethalcode: that's how it works Nov 06 05:31:19 as you said, not everything is in there in source Nov 06 05:31:26 muthu: I'm talgkin about the public tree Nov 06 05:31:30 that's what I'm building right now Nov 06 05:31:50 how would you go about installing an app you copied over to the SD card over usb? Nov 06 05:31:51 lethalcode: all the core apps work this way, surely your app can do the same :)) Nov 06 05:32:05 romainguy_: make sdk Nov 06 05:32:10 that's what i run in public tree Nov 06 05:32:33 may be i'll clean and run Nov 06 05:32:40 lemme check Nov 06 05:33:27 romainguy_: That's what I thought. I must be doing something wrong. Nov 06 05:33:29 Thanks! Nov 06 05:33:45 Oh wait - Yeah - Do sensors run on acitivies in the background? Nov 06 05:34:19 lethalcode: activities, no Nov 06 05:34:24 lethalcode: services, yes Nov 06 05:34:26 your app is supposed to stop them when it goes in the background Nov 06 05:34:35 err... what he said :o) Nov 06 05:34:47 (unless you want to drain the battery and be mean to the user :) Nov 06 05:34:47 Gotcha. Nov 06 05:35:13 Heh. Nov 06 05:35:44 Ciao again, back to code. Nov 06 05:35:54 And thanks. Nov 06 05:38:43 JairunCaloth: I first did that over telnet with something like: Nov 06 05:40:04 dd if=/sdcard/binary of=/system/bin/binary bs=1 count=[actual_size_of_file_here] Nov 06 05:40:10 I'm not trying to install the app over usb, I copied the app over useb to the SD card. I just want to get it installed Nov 06 05:40:20 But maybe it "should" go to /data not /system. Nov 06 05:40:36 JairunCaloth: Yes, same here. Nov 06 05:40:50 cworth: "cat /sdcard/binary > /system/bin/binary" is easier to type :) Nov 06 05:41:09 or just busybox cp /sdcard/blah /system/bin/blash Nov 06 05:41:09 After I used that same trick to get busybox in place, I could use "cp" which is simpler. Nov 06 05:41:20 jimp: Yeah, fair point. :-) Nov 06 05:41:34 cworth: uhh... why not just use cp? Nov 06 05:41:42 gdsx: because toolbox doesn't have cp Nov 06 05:41:42 * cworth tries to avoid cat abuse Nov 06 05:41:43 anywho, does that work for .apk files? Nov 06 05:41:50 ok, point :o) Nov 06 05:41:51 gdsx: Eerily doesn't exist. Nov 06 05:42:50 JairunCaloth: Oh, presumably those will need to be fed to some installer. No idea how to do that on the command line, (or if it's possible). Or if one can point some GUI installer to /sdcard. Nov 06 05:43:29 I'd recommend installing stuff to /data/local/bin Nov 06 05:43:31 so you can do it from the browser but not from the phone... lol Nov 06 05:43:33 instead of /system/bi Nov 06 05:43:37 err /system/bin Nov 06 05:44:22 Well, for cli apps, I'm thinking about setting up a dir on the SD card, then simlinking to it Nov 06 05:44:31 RyeBrye: We really need a good single place to collect best-known practices for things like this. Nov 06 05:44:32 yeah, that woudl work too Nov 06 05:44:37 Yeah, a wiki would be good Nov 06 05:44:45 Stuff is spread all over various fora right now. Nov 06 05:45:02 muthu: when I run make sdk on the git tree, I get: ./out/host/darwin-x86/sdk/ Nov 06 05:45:23 in this directory you'll have a dir named android-sdk_eng.USERNAME_ARCH Nov 06 05:45:25 i have a forum specifically for this if you want to take a stab at posting soem of it cworth Nov 06 05:45:32 and in there you can find the compiled version of activitycreator Nov 06 05:45:32 romainguy_: For me, "make" completed, but "make sdk" aborts with some javadoc error. Nov 06 05:45:41 xda-devs is a great place but its really full of junk right now Nov 06 05:45:55 cworth: did you change anything in the tree? Nov 06 05:46:02 it's a tree I synced a few days ago Nov 06 05:46:13 muthu: and when you want to compile only activitycreator for your tests, run mmm development/tools/activitycreator/ Nov 06 05:46:13 DarkriftX: I'm not interested in a forum format I don't think. I just want a single page that can be updated I think. Nov 06 05:46:19 romainguy: Nope. Nov 06 05:46:35 romainguy: But it could be I've not got a sufficient javadoc installation on my end or something. Nov 06 05:46:40 (mmm in general is used to compile a specific sub-project, like mmm packages/apps/Launcher/ to build Home) Nov 06 05:46:50 cworth: if you have a Sun's JDK you should be good Nov 06 05:47:08 romainguy_: I probably don't. Nov 06 05:47:09 Forums are great and all, but wikis truely rule for some things Nov 06 05:47:15 I installed something from Debian main. Nov 06 05:47:55 "openjdk-6-jdk", (but I have no idea what that actually is) Nov 06 05:48:36 Before I installed that, "make" wouldn't do anything, but afterwards it seemed quite happy, (gave the appearance of running to completion without fatal errors anyway). Nov 06 05:49:13 screw it... Nov 06 05:49:24 * JairunCaloth points his browser at the app on his G1 and installs it that way Nov 06 05:49:32 JairunCaloth: Heh. Nov 06 05:49:46 cworth: not to contribute to the huge proliferation of sites, but I could certainly set up a wiki if you'd like Nov 06 05:50:01 I'm amazed that it is the only known way to install those apps right now Nov 06 05:50:22 jimp: I haven't seen any other wiki yet, so that might not be bad proliferation. Nov 06 05:50:47 DarkriftX might be setting one up Nov 06 05:51:12 yeah, ill set it up if you guys will use it Nov 06 05:51:13 JairunCaloth: you can use adb install Nov 06 05:51:31 romainguy_: ahhh awsome thanks :) Nov 06 05:51:41 I just discovered adb tonight Nov 06 05:51:46 adb rules Nov 06 05:52:06 adb seems totally bizarre to me Nov 06 05:52:06 I've been battleing my G1 to get it on my wifi for the past week and a half. I have barely even gotten to play with it Nov 06 05:52:20 cworth: how so? Nov 06 05:52:23 cworth: how so? Nov 06 05:52:24 Why require a custom binary on the remote end? Nov 06 05:52:31 RyeBrye, you want to be in charge of the wiki? Nov 06 05:52:34 cworth: as opposed to... Nov 06 05:52:35 It's up and working on wifi now thought, just in time to really dig into it Nov 06 05:52:41 I can be - but I'd like another admin or two Nov 06 05:52:54 Things like USB file transfer, ssh, and real shells are so much comfortable, (for someone like me at least). Nov 06 05:52:57 someone with mediawiki experience would be good Nov 06 05:53:10 cworth: adb stands for Android Debug Bridge Nov 06 05:53:11 not that it's that hard Nov 06 05:53:26 will every phone that ships Android meet certain minimum requirements Nov 06 05:53:27 cworth: it's mainly used to hook up debuggers to apps running on the phone Nov 06 05:54:08 like... allowing ADB and such? Nov 06 05:55:50 RyeBrye: PM Nov 06 05:55:50 :) Nov 06 06:00:18 interesting... Nov 06 06:00:34 I can't get root on the terminal app Nov 06 06:01:15 ah nevermind, I just had to type in the full path Nov 06 06:01:54 romainguy_: Yeah, I can see wanting a program on the other end for things like that. I guess it's just odd to me that the default shell environment on the device itself is so limited. Nov 06 06:02:15 why? it's just a phone Nov 06 06:02:25 there's no reason to pack more Nov 06 06:02:53 Yeah, I agree that packing more by default is a waste of space for others Nov 06 06:03:12 in more than 18 months of work on Android I've rarely used the shell on the device Nov 06 06:03:18 I just sometimes delete a file from a cache Nov 06 06:03:23 or inspect a sqlite3 database Nov 06 06:03:27 and that's pretty much it Nov 06 06:04:09 but... then again... setting up a 60 meg cache directory that is only used once every couple of months is a bit wacky too Nov 06 06:04:29 RyeBrye: cache is used for other things Nov 06 06:04:33 And most of the shell operations are easier to do from a real shell with adb shell Nov 06 06:04:44 the cache is used not just for OTA Nov 06 06:04:48 gdsx - so far all I've seen in it are a couple of jpgs and the OTA updates Nov 06 06:04:53 and OTA are much much more important than saving a few megs :) Nov 06 06:05:16 romainguy: I suppose if I were happy with Eclipse+Android SDK then I wouldn't have much need for the shell. Nov 06 06:05:19 "In order to update, you must insert an SD card into your phone." Nov 06 06:05:22 How hard is that? Nov 06 06:05:30 RyeBrye: that's not really acceptable Nov 06 06:05:30 cworth: what do you want to do in the shell anyway? Nov 06 06:05:46 RyeBrye: nope :) Nov 06 06:06:16 cworth: when you develop an app I mean Nov 06 06:06:17 romainguy_: get root :-p Nov 06 06:06:19 I know you've obviously spent a LOT longer than I have thinking this through... so I wont disagree that the setup right now is probably best for most users Nov 06 06:06:19 romainguy_: So far I'm just exploring the device and looking at native development. Nov 06 06:06:26 ah Nov 06 06:06:31 but native development is not supported :) Nov 06 06:06:43 romainguy_: I didn't say I expected support. ;-) Nov 06 06:06:49 RyeBrye: most folks don't have a spare microSD card handy if they lose it. Nov 06 06:06:56 how would they lose it? Nov 06 06:06:56 really we should buy you guys very small Linux laptops Nov 06 06:07:03 RyeBrye: take it out and drop it Nov 06 06:07:04 cause apparently all you care about is being root and writing C code :) Nov 06 06:07:07 RyeBrye: those things are _tiny_ Nov 06 06:07:12 But not supporting that is just as goofy to me too. ;-) Nov 06 06:07:16 yes, and they are impossible to remove unless you are a jedi Nov 06 06:07:20 ) Nov 06 06:07:28 romainguy_: I've got plenty of very small Linux laptops. Nov 06 06:07:30 RyeBrye: what if you have a curious kid playing with it? Nov 06 06:07:32 RyeBrye: and also you could remove the sdcard during the OTA :) and they could fail, or they could be running out of space, etc. Nov 06 06:07:32 and the only reason someone would remove one... is if they have another one :) Nov 06 06:07:33 But thanks. ;-) Nov 06 06:07:41 Ok, fair enough Nov 06 06:07:45 cworth: native code is nice... but brings a shitload of issue Nov 06 06:07:59 a big one being that the binaries won't run across all sort of CPUs :p Nov 06 06:08:01 not cool for the users Nov 06 06:08:02 "In order to run this update - I must delete 10 of your apps. Pick which ones, or I will start deleting them at random. You have 10 seconds." Nov 06 06:08:08 That's user friendly :) Nov 06 06:08:11 romainguy: Total non-issue for open source. Nov 06 06:08:14 for me, it's more about haveing power over the device Nov 06 06:08:27 I hate being locked out of stuff Nov 06 06:08:32 cworth: open source has *nothing* to do with this Nov 06 06:08:46 romainguy: Sure it does. It's the only thing I plan on writing. Nov 06 06:08:50 cworth: .apk files aren't delivered in source form Nov 06 06:08:53 cworth: that's the point Nov 06 06:08:57 romainguy: So for my code, the non-CPU-portability is a non-issue. Nov 06 06:09:05 cworth: what's on the device, as it is today, won't run on multiple devices Nov 06 06:09:07 that doesn't make any sense Nov 06 06:09:09 if the browser starts to use /cache - I'll totally agree that it's fine to have it there Nov 06 06:09:11 gdsx: Sure. I understand that. Nov 06 06:09:11 JairunCaloth: I suggest you get a phone that's more free than Nov 06 06:09:13 Android Nov 06 06:09:20 open source has nothing to do with CPU architectures Nov 06 06:09:54 Apparently it's running on OpenMoko devices. Get one of those and put Android on it. Problem(s) solved. Nov 06 06:09:59 romainguy: With open source programs, "binaries won't run across all sort of CPUs" is not significant. Just recompile. Nov 06 06:10:13 cworth: you totally don't get my point then :) Nov 06 06:10:18 fadden as long as you don't want 3g, keyboard, or even quad band Nov 06 06:10:24 romainguy_: Maybe I don't. Nov 06 06:10:24 cworth: only if your target market consists entirely of people with cross-compilers. Nov 06 06:10:41 spikebike: you're guaranteed to have root; why do those other things even matter? Nov 06 06:11:07 fadden0: we've got root on the G1 :-p Nov 06 06:11:07 I'm guaranteed to have root on my g1. Nov 06 06:11:39 fadden0: Not really. Package upload could do server-side compilation for many targets. But really that kind of thing isn't at all what I'm interested in. Nov 06 06:12:24 romainguy_: There's plenty of native code running on the device already, and I'm interested in exploring things in that layer. Nov 06 06:12:56 * JairunCaloth starts wondering if there is an irssi port Nov 06 06:12:57 cworth: except that native code is part of the platform, it's not part of apps that are distributed to end users through external channels Nov 06 06:12:59 The native code on the device is part of the system, not an app. Nov 06 06:13:15 * fadden0 loses to romainguy_ Nov 06 06:13:18 romainguy_: Fine. Nov 06 06:13:32 romainguy_: Then I'm interested in hacking on the platform. Nov 06 06:13:41 * ttuttle just met another G1 user in the wild! Nov 06 06:13:45 =D Nov 06 06:14:01 jairun I was pondering an irc client (writing one), not sure I'd do an irssi port Nov 06 06:14:04 When did I ever say I wanted to write an app? Nov 06 06:14:13 ttuttle: you mean another geek? Nov 06 06:14:13 romainguy_ - but one thing I have been thinking of where native code would be worthwhile is if I could get one of the OSS OCR platforms to work and then tie it into the platform Nov 06 06:14:15 but if I have net then I can use ssh + remote screen + remote irssi Nov 06 06:14:16 cworth: well since you cannot flash the device, that's pretty much all you can do Nov 06 06:14:22 not sure I see a good reason for local irssi Nov 06 06:14:34 since when can we not flash the device? Nov 06 06:14:42 unix_infidel: materials science + biomedical engineering. decide for yourself. Nov 06 06:14:50 cworth: anyway, I was just telling you why native code is not (yet) supported Nov 06 06:14:52 ttuttle: my kind of geek ;-) Nov 06 06:14:52 romainguy_: Well, some background on my involvement here: Nov 06 06:14:53 spikebike: true.. but if you're away from home it might not be the most optimal setup Nov 06 06:14:53 spikebike: irssi over ssh is very nice Nov 06 06:14:54 rye: I'm pretty positive the app backup method described in that xda-developers thread will not actually preserve the entire partition (unless I'm totally wrong about the mtd block interface, I don't think you'll get the extra data) Nov 06 06:15:19 Ok, you're probably right Nov 06 06:15:28 also restore is a little more complicated, depending on the if the bad blocks are identical or not Nov 06 06:15:39 I've been waiting for devices to get into hands of people I knew so I could find out if things like native development and redlashing were possible. Without that, I'm not interested in the device at all, (as you've noted). Nov 06 06:15:40 I don't leave my computer at home running 24/7 Nov 06 06:15:53 RyeBrye: yeah that'd be nice, but we can't start importing tons of random things in the platform either Nov 06 06:15:54 swetland: people in real life bought G1s! Nov 06 06:16:01 ttuttle: what? no! Nov 06 06:16:18 cworth: then the G1 is probably not what you want Nov 06 06:16:28 And then, quite independently, my wife happened to buy one, so I got a closer look sooner than expected, and I'm seeing that some of this stuff *is* possible, (even if not well supported). Nov 06 06:17:01 romainguy_: Yeah, probably not. But it's funny that it might let me do everything I want, (if accidentally). Nov 06 06:18:18 what does it mean on the G1 when the music logo is crossed out? Nov 06 06:18:53 me is going crazy without tab completion Nov 06 06:19:08 my memory isn't that good :-p Nov 06 06:19:22 JairunCaloth - install an arm-compiled bash on your /data/local/bin and then use it if you want Nov 06 06:19:48 romainguy_: But one reason I would really like a phone like this is to give my laptop network connectivity from anywhere I've got cell-phone coverage. And that looks like an obvious enough thing to do with native code. Nov 06 06:20:44 cworth: you can do that with bluetooth and almost any phone. Nov 06 06:20:50 who all was asking for the wiki? Nov 06 06:20:53 Most everything else I want to do is actually closer to "application" level things, but with a different software stack than what Android uses. Nov 06 06:21:45 cworth: it's already possible Nov 06 06:21:49 cworth: without native code :) Nov 06 06:21:50 ttuttle: Yeah, but I also want something I can put my own Linux software on. Nov 06 06:22:08 romainguy_: Ah, even better. That can save me some work. :-) Nov 06 06:22:18 just adb + a proxy app Nov 06 06:22:24 since adb can forward local port to the device Nov 06 06:22:34 cworth: http://graha.ms/androidproxy/ Nov 06 06:23:07 If you really want to go open-source, port glibc and then work up an X11/GTK port. Maybe give it a name like "taxi". Or "limo". Nov 06 06:23:35 swetland: people in real life bought G1s!/win 2 Nov 06 06:23:39 er Nov 06 06:23:40 whoops Nov 06 06:23:43 looks like ipchains is in the kernel Nov 06 06:23:55 so with a userspace iptables compiled I suspect it would work Nov 06 06:24:04 I've been playing with various little Linux devices for several years, (since Compaq iPAQ), but have only ever found myself carrying a phone consistently, so I've been waiting for a device to combine phone with tiny Linux device. Nov 06 06:24:14 no driver for 64bit yet for android? Nov 06 06:24:16 forshame. Nov 06 06:24:20 (for windows) Nov 06 06:24:32 windows = shame :P Nov 06 06:24:40 no OS war crap :P Nov 06 06:24:41 xorl: have at it Nov 06 06:24:43 bias == shame Nov 06 06:25:11 fadden0: I can't find the sources for the USB driver. Nov 06 06:25:17 (So things like n800 go unused in a drawer here. The neo1973 I was given had a lot of promise, but the "functional phone" part still seems to be lacking.) Nov 06 06:25:21 they have a 32bit build but no sources for said driver Nov 06 06:25:40 cworth sadly I agree Nov 06 06:25:55 neo has been a long sad story Nov 06 06:26:06 spikebike: Yeah. Nov 06 06:26:16 interesting... Nov 06 06:26:19 any ideas on this? Nov 06 06:26:20 mv /system/bin/busybox /sdcard/userapps/ Nov 06 06:26:20 i have the Neo as well. Nov 06 06:26:21 failed on '/system/bin/busybox' - Cross-device link Nov 06 06:26:23 It's still sad. Nov 06 06:26:29 xorl: what's in development/host/windows/usb/driver/ ? (I'm not a Windows driver guy) Nov 06 06:26:35 speaking of which I'm hoping that HTC realizes they could just sell direct Nov 06 06:26:37 cworth, RyeBrye, DarkriftX: I went away to set it up and missed where darkriftx offered to do it... but I set up a wiki at http://android.jim.sh/ Nov 06 06:26:46 if anyone wants to use it, go ahead, or ignore it, whatever :) Nov 06 06:26:47 especially if they were unlocked/unencrypted Nov 06 06:26:50 So Android people shouldn't be too surprised that there are people like me with a lot of interest in the device, (even if not a lot of interest in the higher-level parts of Android as far as coding). Nov 06 06:27:17 JairunCaloth: "mv" can only rename files Nov 06 06:27:22 i put one up on android-dls.com/wiki and RyeBrye is registering for it Nov 06 06:27:24 JairunCaloth: It probably makes a hard link then deletes the original. Just copy instead (cat old > new; rm old) Nov 06 06:27:24 cworth: not at all surprising Nov 06 06:27:31 but im not worried about who uses what Nov 06 06:27:32 The fancy version of "mv" renames or copies as needed. Nov 06 06:27:34 ah gotcha Nov 06 06:27:37 just care about what gets put on it :) Nov 06 06:27:43 DarkriftX: agreed :) Nov 06 06:27:57 but, I did put a cool logo up :) Nov 06 06:28:00 lol Nov 06 06:28:24 im lazy, i put up my avatar as the logo lol Nov 06 06:28:34 someone made me avatar, logos and more on a forum Nov 06 06:28:36 so i just used those lol Nov 06 06:28:46 * DarkriftX sucks with graphics, so i outsource that stuff Nov 06 06:29:15 cworth: we're not surprised :) Nov 06 06:29:32 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/development.git;a=tree;f=host/windows/usb;h=e77e55d7f226120b9cd33b35e2ed796bf57c12b8;hb=master Nov 06 06:29:36 jimp: I'll throw some text in. Nov 06 06:29:39 win32 driver source for adb Nov 06 06:29:40 enjoy Nov 06 06:30:00 DarkriftX: Feel free to copy liberally of course. Obviously getting the content is more important than where it lives. Nov 06 06:30:01 speaking of surprised... I was surprised when I went to launch an app in the emulator the other day and nothing happened... but a few minutes later my phone was saying "Hello Android! You are my bitch!" Nov 06 06:30:19 * RyeBrye had it install his modified hello-world to the phone - which was cool... but totally surprised him :) Nov 06 06:30:21 RyeBrye: well now that you raped your phone with a root shell, who knows? :)) Nov 06 06:30:27 LOL Nov 06 06:30:34 I didn't rape it - she was begging for it Nov 06 06:30:40 honestly the thing that surprises me the most Nov 06 06:30:55 is people valiantly reverse-engineering everything when source code to the whole platform is available Nov 06 06:31:09 Just making sure it's the same stuff :) Nov 06 06:31:19 swet like? Nov 06 06:31:30 There are no "head fakes" in the device binaries. :-) Nov 06 06:31:46 I'LL BE THE JUDGE OF THAT ;) Nov 06 06:31:55 By all means. :-) Nov 06 06:31:59 RyeBrye: you guys should learn to stop distrusting someday :)) Nov 06 06:32:13 I'm just kidding Nov 06 06:32:18 #paranoid-control-freaks :))) Nov 06 06:32:27 I was there, but the channel was monitored Nov 06 06:32:28 I think Nov 06 06:32:46 ok RyeBrye symlinking apk files i /data/app does NOT work Nov 06 06:32:53 RyeBrye: I'm surprised you accept to be on an IRC channel without being op ^^ Nov 06 06:32:55 they dissapear from androids list Nov 06 06:32:56 hrm... the sdcard is mounted by default as noexec Nov 06 06:32:58 you're locked down! Nov 06 06:33:00 but when you put it back, it re-appears Nov 06 06:33:08 ok, I'll stop being annoying :) Nov 06 06:33:12 romainguy - I can accept it on freenode since I trust teh powers that be :) Nov 06 06:33:25 romainguy - but on EFnet I have to roll about 10 deep with bots :P Nov 06 06:33:39 DarkriftX: did you remount the SD card without noexec? Nov 06 06:33:46 ooooh Nov 06 06:33:49 no Nov 06 06:34:07 yeah I was just trying to figure out how come I couldn't run busybox from the sdcard Nov 06 06:34:20 whats the command for that? Nov 06 06:34:21 I'm like... I'm root bioch, don't tell me permission denied Nov 06 06:34:25 LOL Nov 06 06:34:38 "I'm root bioch" Nov 06 06:34:39 did a mount and noticed the sd card had noexec Nov 06 06:34:40 thats great Nov 06 06:35:13 RyeBrye, you know mediawiki enough to know how to give users admin? Nov 06 06:35:17 yeah Nov 06 06:35:41 so you'll need something along the lines of mount -o remount,blahblah Nov 06 06:36:14 romainguy_: Funny, I see paranoia on the other side with all the signatures and lockdown. ;-) ;-) Nov 06 06:36:25 cworth: except you guys proved us right so far :)) Nov 06 06:36:34 romainguy_: What?! Nov 06 06:36:51 I don't see anyone passing malware around Nov 06 06:36:54 romainguy_: I just want to run my own code for my own entertainment. Nov 06 06:37:00 RyeBrye: and we hope to keep it that way Nov 06 06:37:06 I do too Nov 06 06:37:19 Not too many viruses on Linux. Nov 06 06:37:39 It's in the best interest of anyone who plans to code for this device that it has a reputation of being secure and kickass Nov 06 06:37:50 And if the paranoia is about carriers' control of their network, then what about my control of my home network where my wife is bringing this device? Nov 06 06:38:18 RyeBrye: the PSP has been hacked here and back again and you don't see people panicking in the streets about zomb psp viruses. Nov 06 06:38:43 JairunCaloth - I'm not saying there will be android viruses Nov 06 06:38:52 JairunCaloth: except the PSP is not used as a cell phone :)) Nov 06 06:39:01 Well... if you hack it... oh... wait Nov 06 06:39:03 Latest PSP hardware finally fixes the biggest holes.. but one big thing about the PSP is that it's rarely online. Nov 06 06:39:04 it's still got wifi Nov 06 06:39:19 mine was online all the time till I got my G1 Nov 06 06:39:21 I am totally behind the times on psp fun Nov 06 06:39:21 JairunCaloth: last time I checked I never called 911 with my PSP :p Nov 06 06:39:27 fun device to code for Nov 06 06:39:27 yeah me too Nov 06 06:39:36 it got too annoying to keep up with the exploits Nov 06 06:39:43 last time I checked you needed to hack the battery Nov 06 06:39:43 but I haven't followed the whole pspdev thing for a year or two now Nov 06 06:39:52 stupid PSP slim Nov 06 06:40:00 romain: I have a handful of older PSPs Nov 06 06:40:00 Im running Android on the Openmoko Neo Freerunner using Sean McNeils images. Installing and running works, but the phone doesnt accept my PIN code for my sim card. Is that a know problem? Nov 06 06:40:14 romain: from the days of the old tiff exploit Nov 06 06:40:24 * cworth has a linux server in his closet with a phone-line connection---no mysterious 911 calls from that one either Nov 06 06:40:28 swetland: I had a phat but I sold it :( Nov 06 06:40:58 The battery hack is great. Nov 06 06:41:01 ken: you'll have to ask the openmoko folks, I think. I don't think anyone here knows anything about their radio or how they've integrated it with android Nov 06 06:41:04 cworth: so obviously you can generalize this experience to an entire nationwide cellular network :) Nov 06 06:41:07 My wife uses her psp to skype japan almost every night :| Nov 06 06:41:19 it's cheaper than tmo's LD rates Nov 06 06:41:25 swetland, doing that too, but it was worth a shot trying over here :) Nov 06 06:41:48 swetland: well they removed some code in their patches, so they might have removed something that causes trouble with PIN codes Nov 06 06:42:01 I'm most notably worried about the auto-provisioning Nov 06 06:42:13 I think it should go without saying that most of the people in this room who are busy hacking away probably hold a large circle of influence over what their less technically savy friends do Nov 06 06:42:16 I'd like to see skype on the G1, not blocked by tmo, and not using minutes Nov 06 06:42:30 anywho... my point is, you release a device and people are going to try to make it do things it was never intended to do. Somtimes with great results. Nov 06 06:42:46 RyeBrye: I would more describe people in this room as the annoying guys who always try to push their own choice of tech to their friends :) Nov 06 06:43:02 Nah, my friends always ask me :) - but yes, that category also works Nov 06 06:43:23 * languish doesn't like making technology recommendations to friends Nov 06 06:43:37 I don't usually - but I'm sure I've gotten 5 people to buy a G1 now Nov 06 06:43:48 poor them Nov 06 06:43:49 JairunCaloth: sure, but you have to admit that out of the box the G1 lets you do a lot; so sure probably not enough for some of you, but still a lot Nov 06 06:44:17 romainguy_: Absolutely, I wouldn't have bought one if it didn't. Nov 06 06:44:19 Hell - ADB? The Eclipse plugin? That crap would cost some serious $$$ if you wanted to develop on Symbian Nov 06 06:44:42 surprisingly, J2ME phones have very decent dev environments Nov 06 06:44:53 Hackers can really influence things though. The majority of PSP features were introduced by hackers first and Sony later. Nov 06 06:44:56 my last Sony Ericsson phone coupled with the Sony SDK and NetBeans was pretyt awesome to play with Nov 06 06:45:03 Really? that's cool Nov 06 06:45:15 The C++ side of the Symbian OS was a bear Nov 06 06:45:19 jimp: pretty sure sony still doesn't let approved devs do a lot of stuff the psp homebrew tools do Nov 06 06:45:25 NetBeans J2ME module is really really good Nov 06 06:45:29 swetland: definitely, they don't get kernel mode :) Nov 06 06:45:33 and the Sony emulators were not too shabby :) Nov 06 06:45:36 jimp: of course sony is trying to ensure compatibility across future hardware revs, etc Nov 06 06:45:47 (and they supported debugging over USB, with the USB cable in the box) Nov 06 06:45:53 jimp: or direct access to the second cpu, which is presented as a blackbox media accel unit Nov 06 06:46:15 swetland: true, the ME is still off limits, although they do provide libs for just about everything you'd reasonably want to use it for Nov 06 06:46:19 swetland: the only thing I want from Sony is a reliable Remote Play from the PSP to the PS3 :) Nov 06 06:46:40 I'm happy with just using the ps3 with the ps3 controllers myself Nov 06 06:47:04 I hear Resistance 2 will have (or has) a mode where you can do that, use the PS3 controller to play on the PSP. Nov 06 06:47:13 swetland: I once managed to watch an episode of a TV Show streamed from my mac to my ps3 then to my ps3 to my psp... in the google shuttle :) Nov 06 06:48:36 and now you'll be able to do it from your mac to your G1 without the ps3 Nov 06 06:48:45 :| Nov 06 06:48:55 yeah but that's not as fun :) Nov 06 06:49:31 Wait, G1 has a streaming solutoin? Nov 06 06:49:45 yeah, but it'd more convenient than carrying multiple devices Nov 06 06:49:53 *it's Nov 06 06:52:52 romainguy: I disagree, the J2ME environment developments are still pretty lame Nov 06 06:53:09 emulators are still blackboxes, can barely inspect stuff in the middle of midlets running Nov 06 06:53:26 Sun finally calling quits on WTK (5 years overdue) Nov 06 06:53:33 WTK :) Nov 06 06:53:35 damnit so close, the G1 is seen as a drive by Vista 64 but just doesn't let me access it at all Nov 06 06:54:02 xorl: Have you opened the "USB connected" dialog on the phone and clicked "Mount"? Nov 06 06:54:41 xorl: I couldn't get that working on Vista 32 either Nov 06 06:54:52 worked fine on Linux Nov 06 06:54:54 It's just a @#$% USB mass storage device. How can Vista screw that up? Nov 06 06:55:21 hah Nov 06 06:55:26 "security" Nov 06 06:55:37 What turtle said about the dialog box. Nov 06 06:55:46 Vista has disabled this device, which is suspected of harboring ``Open Source'', for your protection Nov 06 06:57:21 rc29 broke mountain for me with ubuntu Nov 06 06:57:22 when specifying uid and guid in mount, does that override the uid and gid set on a file? Nov 06 06:57:25 er mounting Nov 06 06:57:27 jimp: OK. I added some notes on cross-compiling with the android prebuilt toolchain, (and andyross's agcc script). Nov 06 06:57:38 and yes I click on mount from the dialog Nov 06 06:57:44 I have to manually mount Nov 06 06:58:59 http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,24611100-5014239,00.html Nov 06 06:59:01 awesome Nov 06 07:01:00 ballmer is always a riot Nov 06 07:01:14 I like this argument "I don't get it, therefore it's dumb" Nov 06 07:01:20 romainguy_: That's a great argument. Nov 06 07:01:26 romainguy_: See: most reviews in Market. Nov 06 07:01:36 oh yeah Nov 06 07:01:42 you should see the emails I get for Shutter Speed :) Nov 06 07:01:53 romainguy_: noobs Nov 06 07:02:00 eh Nov 06 07:02:09 bah :) Nov 06 07:02:38 ... how soon until quake is in the git repo? :) Nov 06 07:03:51 Hmm... would ZeroConf have any place in the android platform? I.e. you log onto wifi and you are able to discover other stuff on there? If it was in the OS level and APIs were exposed, it would be easy to make something that would connect to a DAAP server I would imagine Nov 06 07:03:58 jasta: you around? Nov 06 07:04:15 RyeBrye: you can just include the lib in your app Nov 06 07:04:21 that's what umdk1d3 did for Tunes Remotes Nov 06 07:04:22 -s Nov 06 07:04:57 Well hell... You guys are so smart - you even think like me! Nov 06 07:05:05 * RyeBrye jokes Nov 06 07:05:37 I'm wanting a Growl -> Android notification bridge... just because it would be cool to get Growl notifications when I'm walking around the house Nov 06 07:05:42 romainguy_: Heh. Nov 06 07:05:44 romainguy_: er Nov 06 07:05:45 RyeBrye: Heh. Nov 06 07:14:48 RyeBrye: what do you mean by OS level? Nov 06 07:15:51 tmzt - just saying if it was implemented at a low level with high-level APIs... Nov 06 07:16:06 oh, yeah I figured it out, you meant in the platform Nov 06 07:16:55 romainguy_: back after a power shutdown.. Nov 06 07:17:10 I can't see why you can't bring up a virtual interface :1 and use avahi though? Nov 06 07:17:11 did you say something about sdk generated in out? Nov 06 07:17:48 afaik, it generates only docs under out Nov 06 07:18:32 jasta: ping Nov 06 07:18:38 trissmo: Did you call me "turtle"? Nov 06 07:19:08 partner_setup function sets up a 'generic' product which results in host/linux-x86 Nov 06 07:19:22 should this be changed, to get the sdk generated? Nov 06 07:19:44 ttuttle: lol, yeah i guess he mispronounced ;) Nov 06 07:19:51 muthu: heh Nov 06 07:19:53 or misspelled, rather Nov 06 07:20:03 RyeBrye, any ideas on what to replace the wiki background image with that isnt too tacky? http://android-dls.com/wiki/skins/monobook/headbg.jpg Nov 06 07:20:18 that image is kinda ugly Nov 06 07:20:44 yeah, it's ugly Nov 06 07:21:46 ttuttle: haha sorry im not with it today. Nov 06 07:21:53 trissmo: oh it's okay Nov 06 07:22:36 ttuttle: any idea, on how to generate the sdk from source? Nov 06 07:22:43 muthu: no clue Nov 06 07:22:56 romainguy_: claims, he can Nov 06 07:26:29 there RyeBrye, replaced it with the striped background from my main sites header for now Nov 06 07:27:03 cool Nov 06 07:27:50 romainguy_: So the AndroidProxy thing there is really short of what I want. I definitely want something more along the lines of this on the phone: Nov 06 07:27:51 iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE Nov 06 07:28:26 And then just a standard network connection between laptop and phone, (over bluetooth or USB). Nov 06 07:28:31 cworth: that command just burned my retinas Nov 06 07:28:37 cworth: (I hate NAT) Nov 06 07:28:47 Really basic stuff given two linux boxes. Nov 06 07:29:16 cworth: you should go ahead and ignore me, though, because I'm not saying anything useful right now :o) Nov 06 07:29:42 gdsx: Well, me neither to tell the truth. :-) Time to sleep now. Nov 06 07:30:04 g'night Nov 06 07:30:28 ok, I read the technical explaination earlier, but I don't get how it's hiding the -s- status? Nov 06 07:31:35 you know... something I thought about earlier. It bothers me that the root password is apparently blank Nov 06 07:32:44 so change it to something, you can now Nov 06 07:33:28 I wonder if it will break things though Nov 06 07:34:02 yeah, i haven't messed with it yet so not sure Nov 06 07:35:03 tmzt: which explanation are you talking about? It's also very suspicious to me, seems almost like an intentional backdoor ! Nov 06 07:35:31 I can confirm that it most definitely is not intentional Nov 06 07:35:38 (ok, conspiracy theories aside, it's definitely strange) Nov 06 07:36:00 I have no clue how uid=euid=suid=10040 can turn into euid=0. Nov 06 07:36:21 jimp, easy.. "oshi..oops!" Nov 06 07:36:35 * ttuttle installs Five, to see what all the fuss is about. Nov 06 07:36:36 Google.. "We shipped what?" Nov 06 07:36:43 I had only looked in the kernel source at the release and saw all the strange dependencies on uid, I even asked swetland what was going on, so I'm guessing this was in the userspace only??? but telnetd has to launch something, and it has to get port 23 from somewhere?? is "shell" special Nov 06 07:36:56 just be glad it came that way Nov 06 07:37:10 sorry, telnetd has to launch something, if not /bin/login something else Nov 06 07:37:24 cworth, i copied your cross compiling page since you said you didnt mind Nov 06 07:37:59 DarkriftX: Sure. No problem. Nov 06 07:38:09 You copied my part too, what's the license on your wiki? >:) Nov 06 07:38:11 oh well, change root debian while you still can :) Nov 06 07:38:15 chroot Nov 06 07:39:11 free for all license Nov 06 07:39:13 lol Nov 06 07:39:21 jimp: have you looked at the kernel source, search for rlove Nov 06 07:39:27 jimp: Interested in CC-BY-SA instead of GFDL? ;-) Nov 06 07:39:49 It was contributed past nov 1, you can't do that :) Nov 06 07:40:32 jimp: You've got a new wiki with no content here. You can do any license rule you want. Nov 06 07:40:42 motorola went with NSA tecnology for a reason, but I guess they messed it up to Nov 06 07:40:56 cworth: I thought you were trying to relicense my GFDL content as CC-BY-SA by that strange new clause in GFDL 1.3. Nov 06 07:41:00 (Though yes, I'd need to grant you permission for my piece, which I do gladly do.) Nov 06 07:41:21 which piece is whose Nov 06 07:41:22 brb, I need to reboot into linux and grab a cig Nov 06 07:41:41 jimp: Hehe. No. But I was referring to the strange new clause, (and that it perhaps points out some infelicities in GFDL usage). Nov 06 07:41:58 http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/305892/cf24bd015c0a89ac/ Nov 06 07:42:39 * http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/305892/40c6d9b89e6cd211/ Nov 06 07:42:46 :-) Nov 06 07:42:54 cworth: Well, it's more the problem with "or any later version" than with any particular license Nov 06 07:43:05 cworth: :) Nov 06 07:43:17 jimp: Oh, I don't see that as a problem though. Nov 06 07:43:34 I just mean the general problems of the GFDL, (possibilities of invariant sections, etc.). Nov 06 07:44:05 Aah true. The "any later version" sure puts a lot of trust in the future-FSF though. Nov 06 07:44:06 Though I really don't think the license for an Android Hackers wiki will ever be a significant issue. Nov 06 07:44:20 of course Nov 06 07:44:39 tmzt: I searched for rlove, didn't find much.. are you referring to something in particular? Nov 06 07:48:36 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=commit;h=25b172dbdb0075a24647 Nov 06 07:48:54 yeah, I see that, that looks fine to me. Nov 06 07:49:17 so what's the timeline on my android enabled fridge noticing I'm low on vodka, checking local stores along my most traveled paths for the best price on my favorite brand, deciding on a few best cost suggestions, and notifying my android handset? Nov 06 07:49:47 then dumping the whole shebang on a google map with all the info Nov 06 07:49:55 2 weeks :-p Nov 06 07:50:02 AWESOME DUDE Nov 06 07:50:08 tmzt: Unless they had a truly monumentally fatheaded bug like using "current->euid = 0" instead of "current->euid == 0" in one of their builds. Nov 06 07:50:13 well, that's why I'm asking? it can't be suid it has to be something else Nov 06 07:50:15 holy cow Nov 06 07:50:20 jimp: But that would be false. Nov 06 07:50:22 I just thought of the BEST APP EVER Nov 06 07:50:27 ttuttle get this Nov 06 07:50:35 * ttuttle gets ready to get. Nov 06 07:50:38 a period tracker Nov 06 07:50:45 languish: I'm sure it's been done. Nov 06 07:50:45 0.o Nov 06 07:50:47 ttuttle: Sure, but: (current->euid = 0 || current->egid == AF_INET) Nov 06 07:50:47 etc Nov 06 07:50:49 lol Nov 06 07:50:49 yes, that kinda period Nov 06 07:50:59 so you know when to get frisky, and when to aboid Nov 06 07:51:01 *avoid Nov 06 07:51:06 it also can work as a business app Nov 06 07:51:10 I mean, that's what it is now: Nov 06 07:51:10 * ttuttle considers condoms a better idea. Nov 06 07:51:10 return (!current->euid || current->egid == AID_INET || Nov 06 07:51:11 i can just imagine the sound effects on this one Nov 06 07:51:18 knowing when not to put too much on your secretary/receptionist Nov 06 07:51:52 they randomly mention it, so when they do, just note it in the app Nov 06 07:52:00 after awhile it can generate a profile of her cycle Nov 06 07:52:17 then update your personal google calendar with warning..err alerts Nov 06 07:52:27 :D Nov 06 07:52:57 the app should allow for tracking of multiple women Nov 06 07:53:05 not just the ones you bed Nov 06 07:53:21 that way we know when to be most considerate :D Nov 06 07:53:39 or when to notice she's low on tampons/pads Nov 06 07:53:50 and not be around to get sent to the store for more Nov 06 07:53:52 :| Nov 06 07:53:59 Where's the kernel source that matches the binary I was given on my G1? Anyone know? Nov 06 07:54:12 (btw, I'm adding humor, but yeah.. it might make for a decent app anyway) Nov 06 07:54:43 jasta: ping Nov 06 07:54:46 jimp: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=commit;h=c092738e01ab845dc7406dc1b53589b1f9edebbc Nov 06 07:55:26 I see 18ac882 in "uname -a" on mine. Nov 06 07:55:52 let's see, you have an /init process that has root, it could fork and give caps to certain processes, but it doesn't so that apparently didn't work. Nov 06 07:55:53 cworth: Yeah, and "git show 18ac882" shows me nothing Nov 06 07:55:57 But no such object in kernel/.git Nov 06 07:56:05 jimp: Right. Nov 06 07:56:08 swetland: That's just making the configs match.. Nov 06 07:56:36 we did not publish the internal git tree -- patches were collapsed / combined / etc Nov 06 07:56:49 * cworth chalks up another point for wanting to build and install his own kernel Nov 06 07:56:50 source lines up but the commit is, for obvious reasons, not the same hash Nov 06 07:56:55 * ttuttle is going to bed. Nov 06 07:57:41 the external tree matches up, but the internal tree had some chunks of history which could not be published Nov 06 07:57:53 OK, as long as it lines up I'm happy Nov 06 07:58:13 as long as jimp is happy, I'm happy Nov 06 07:58:18 * cworth doesn't seem to have c092738e01ab8 either Nov 06 07:58:18 I'm happy Nov 06 07:58:24 if you build from that commit, you should have a kernel that is identical to what shipped on g1 Nov 06 07:58:49 in particular, make distclean && make msm_defconfig && make Nov 06 07:59:02 swetland: thanks Nov 06 08:00:12 bah... adb isn't seeing my phone in linux Nov 06 08:00:34 check permissions? Nov 06 08:02:26 jimp - you had a toolchain working, right? Nov 06 08:02:57 yeah, I don't have a phone handy at the moment Nov 06 08:03:08 (to respond to your privmsg) -- can't you just dd /dev/mem? Nov 06 08:03:50 Oh, ok Nov 06 08:04:38 ls /dev | grep mem only shows pmem_camera pmem_gpu1 pmem_gpu0 pmem_adsp pmem ashmem Nov 06 08:04:53 and if I dd any of them, I get nothing it seems Nov 06 08:05:30 jimp, was there something you wanted removed? Nov 06 08:05:42 maybe: mknod /dev/mem c 1 1 Nov 06 08:05:48 DarkriftX: nah, I was just being a pain :) Nov 06 08:05:52 oh lol Nov 06 08:06:09 i got lost in your guys license convo and gave up trying to figure it out Nov 06 08:06:14 heh Nov 06 08:09:52 is the email client imap capable? Nov 06 08:10:19 DarkriftX: Oh, you were taking jimp too seriously. Nov 06 08:10:34 DarkriftX: I guessed that was the case, but couldn't speak for jimp. ;-) Nov 06 08:10:49 im always careful abotu copying other ppls stuff Nov 06 08:10:59 holymoo: Yes. It seems to work. Nov 06 08:11:07 wow Nov 06 08:11:09 i always hated my stuff getting copied so thats one of my pet peevs Nov 06 08:11:13 that alone kills blackberries for us Nov 06 08:11:16 sweet Nov 06 08:11:53 (Though "ssl only" was failing for my self-signed certificate while "TLS if available" works---with my server talking only SSL as far as I know.) Nov 06 08:12:23 so some debugging required, not bad Nov 06 08:12:54 another question ... does the applicatio nframework have any sort of security/lockdown mechanism in place for applying security via policies? Nov 06 08:13:23 * cworth really does sleep this time Nov 06 08:13:39 k. thx for your answer btw :) Nov 06 08:17:49 its funny how many mac and apple related sites are covering the g1 root story Nov 06 08:18:13 i have 28 mac blogs linking to my forum since yesterday Nov 06 08:19:12 mac community technical ignorance isn't exactly a surprise Nov 06 08:20:39 ? Nov 06 08:20:58 Developers often love macs Nov 06 08:21:35 ya Nov 06 08:21:45 even linux hackers often have a mac laptop Nov 06 08:22:13 * JairunCaloth is dual booting linux/osx Nov 06 08:22:13 I <3 my mac Nov 06 08:22:27 I wouldn't call myself a linux hacker though Nov 06 08:22:37 or a developer for that matter Nov 06 08:23:49 after the 2nd or 3rd time it gets old trying to get linux laptop to do everything right Nov 06 08:23:55 yeah Nov 06 08:24:02 flash, movies, dvds, sleep, wifi, etc. Nov 06 08:24:28 speeking of sleep.... :) Nov 06 08:24:40 yeah... I've been fighting it Nov 06 08:24:42 * RyeBrye goes to sleep... possibly hibernate Nov 06 08:25:04 gotta work tomorrow and stuff too Nov 06 08:25:40 my linux laptop does everything :( Nov 06 08:25:54 flash, movies, games, dvds, sleep, wifi, etc Nov 06 08:25:56 all the keys work? Nov 06 08:25:59 yeah Nov 06 08:26:04 runs pretty damn well on macbook pro Nov 06 08:26:08 you can just shut the lid? Nov 06 08:26:16 my wifi takes a long ass time to get working, but thats because im a n00b Nov 06 08:26:19 yes Nov 06 08:26:25 wifi works after opening th e lid? Nov 06 08:26:32 yes Nov 06 08:26:33 ah so there are a few warts ;-) Nov 06 08:26:52 the default drivers work, but dont give any options Nov 06 08:27:07 i like to change settings and so i use different drivers Nov 06 08:27:07 alas sometimes everything works Nov 06 08:27:12 but it's hard to be sure ahead of time Nov 06 08:27:18 yeah Nov 06 08:27:19 especially with all the options Nov 06 08:27:43 I was looking at a thinkpad x200 there's one "ibm" option for wifi Nov 06 08:27:45 and 2-3 intel Nov 06 08:28:18 it was rather hard to find any comments on which to get and what if any would work well, had good/stable drivers, would wake up after sleep, etc. Nov 06 08:28:44 and that's of course with a thinkpad which I believe is the number 1 laptop for linux users Nov 06 08:29:01 god forbid you get some random toshiba, asus, dell, hp, whatever Nov 06 08:29:10 [ 17.373089] ath_pci: wifi0: Atheros 5424/2424: mem=0xf2500000, irq=21 Nov 06 08:29:13 is what's on my x200 Nov 06 08:29:26 it's a little cranky. I should move to the latest driver and see if it's happier Nov 06 08:29:35 atheros roxxors Nov 06 08:29:37 suspend/resume isn't perfect either Nov 06 08:29:38 how do you like the x200? Nov 06 08:29:44 heh Nov 06 08:29:56 love the machine. it's the perfect successor to x40/x60 Nov 06 08:29:59 I'm very close to getting one... of course the x200s is tempting as well Nov 06 08:30:13 I've got that same chip on my old laptop. it makes a great wireless router now >.> Nov 06 08:30:23 just a little bit wider, so keyboard is slightly larger, larger display, but still pretty damn small and light Nov 06 08:30:52 * RyeBrye wants Apple to announce 17" MBP's with a mobile quad core Nov 06 08:30:54 I'm running ubuntu 8.04.1 Nov 06 08:31:07 had to download the wifi driver and build it myself to get it to work Nov 06 08:31:09 that's what I'd run Nov 06 08:31:34 and sometimes it gets cranky and X won't restart coming out of suspend Nov 06 08:31:45 yeah, you do have to build the 3rd party atheros drivers if you want to use them. but it's not bad Nov 06 08:31:51 kinda burns me that it doesn't have digital video out (display port or dvi) Nov 06 08:31:53 but generally works well Nov 06 08:31:57 especially in this day and age Nov 06 08:31:59 spike: yeah that's my main gripe really Nov 06 08:32:05 and in the newer ubuntu Nov 06 08:32:08 I almost never use an external monitor with a laptop Nov 06 08:32:12 so it wasn't a dealkiller Nov 06 08:32:12 you can just install linux-restricted-modules Nov 06 08:32:22 but dvi/hdmo would have been nicer than vga Nov 06 08:32:24 er hdmi Nov 06 08:32:31 anywho....... Nov 06 08:32:32 not sure how I"d use it, but I am planning a nice new LCD soonish Nov 06 08:32:35 I'm going to bed Nov 06 08:33:29 oh interesting people were talking about thinkpads Nov 06 08:33:42 im having issues with mine :/ Nov 06 08:34:00 i miss my thinkpad Nov 06 08:34:06 thankfully, next job is going to give me a new one Nov 06 08:34:07 :D Nov 06 08:34:19 i can kill it hard with glxgears in under a minute Nov 06 08:34:39 i think its an nvidia issue, because non-graphics-intensive stuff will run for days Nov 06 08:34:41 sounds like toasted video chip Nov 06 08:34:50 or bad driver Nov 06 08:34:58 i used to beat the crap out of mine with 3d all the tie Nov 06 08:34:59 er time Nov 06 08:35:01 i just got off the phone with some wonderful guy in georgia who didnt have a clue what i was telling him Nov 06 08:35:14 im running the latest nvidia linux driver Nov 06 08:35:31 hmm Nov 06 08:35:37 it did last longer when i forced the fan to run at fullspeed, but still died in under 5 mins Nov 06 08:35:50 he was telling me i needed more RAM Nov 06 08:35:50 umk1d3 there is a known issue with nvidia graphics ships in laptops Nov 06 08:35:52 how long you had this thinkpad? Nov 06 08:35:55 they are basically all defective Nov 06 08:35:59 can someone cat me this to pastebin? /system/core/include/private/android_filesystem_config.h. Nov 06 08:36:11 if that ona g1? Nov 06 08:36:17 or the source tree? Nov 06 08:36:18 spikebike: lenovo puts quadro 570s in their's Nov 06 08:36:28 spikebike: yea ive been reading that on forums, mostly hoping that it wasnt true in my case Nov 06 08:36:30 not the consumer-grade geforce Nov 06 08:36:41 I believe it's all the chip Nov 06 08:36:46 spikebike, its not on the emu but im not sure Nov 06 08:36:48 maybe in the source Nov 06 08:36:50 they made a poor decision for the mechanical aspects of the chip Nov 06 08:36:52 ive got a t61 with an nvidia m140 iirc Nov 06 08:37:04 ahh, that's older Nov 06 08:37:06 someone posted on my forums that all guids and uids are listed in there Nov 06 08:37:12 i want to see if there are more then what we have listed Nov 06 08:37:20 basically the heat cycling causes physical stress which is too much for the pin/pad interface Nov 06 08:38:04 theinquirer.net had a 3 article series (each pretty long) on all the mechanical engineering issues with what they did Nov 06 08:38:20 im going to call lenovo back in the morning and hope for a better tech Nov 06 08:38:44 DarkriftX: im not seeing anything /system/core/* on my g1, did you look in the git tree? Nov 06 08:38:53 nope Nov 06 08:38:58 * DarkriftX wouldnt know how Nov 06 08:39:14 you do know that git is browsable online? Nov 06 08:39:39 Hi again folks: I'm using startActivityForResult(). In the child, any way I can hook when they press the back button so I can call setResult()? Nov 06 08:40:00 onPause, onStop, etc are all called after the calling activity has received the results. Nov 06 08:40:18 i searched it for "android_filesystem_config" and nothing Nov 06 08:40:42 DarkriftX: where did that person come up with that path i wonder? Nov 06 08:40:58 full post is: All UIDs and GIDs are defined in system/core/include/private/android_filesystem_config.h. Nov 06 08:41:49 found this: Add the user id and group id used by android on the NFS server. Nov 06 08:41:49 Android does not use /ect/passwd file to record the user name and user id, it uses a fixed method to map the user name to user id through the head file device/include/private/android_filesystem_config.h, e.g. the user "system" has the user id of 1000. Nov 06 08:41:49 So to correctly set the file ownership(owner and group), the NFS server should have these users with correct user IDs. Such as system(1000). For ubuntu, you can call like this. Nov 06 08:41:53 oh crap, sorry Nov 06 08:41:56 thought it was one line Nov 06 08:43:52 http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/system/core.git;a=blob;f=include/private/android_filesystem_config.h;h=13e134bba98535031d2168e180744d4a3eff268b;hb=HEAD Nov 06 08:44:12 kRutOn: good find :) Nov 06 08:44:35 and man, your up early :P Nov 06 08:44:51 my son woke me up crying about nothing Nov 06 08:45:24 kRutOn how old is your kid? Nov 06 08:45:53 the one that woke me up is almost 3 Nov 06 08:45:59 ah Nov 06 08:46:03 mine is 4 Nov 06 08:47:42 on edge: 200 Kbit/sec down, 42 Kbit/sec up Nov 06 08:48:04 tested how? Nov 06 08:48:13 Xtremelabs app Nov 06 08:48:26 from the market? Nov 06 08:48:30 yeah Nov 06 09:13:39 has anyone seen mobile ip support for android Nov 06 09:13:48 google search isnt giving many clues Nov 06 09:20:46 mobile ip? Nov 06 09:20:49 whoa :S Nov 06 09:20:59 spikebike, did you read about executing commands in dialer? Nov 06 09:21:07 no Nov 06 09:21:24 reboot your phone and open dialer, type "reboot" instead of a phone number and hit enter Nov 06 09:21:45 k Nov 06 09:21:54 aand it reboots? Nov 06 09:22:00 nice Nov 06 09:22:20 supposedly Nov 06 09:22:48 There is a bug report on ConnectBot that rebooting a remote computer with it reboots the phone as well. Nov 06 09:23:00 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442857 Nov 06 09:23:07 seems this works with sending texts ect Nov 06 09:23:11 And it's been confirmed by 2 different people. Nov 06 09:23:21 sending a text "reboot" would reboot your pjhone lol Nov 06 09:25:38 http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/issues/detail?id=64 Nov 06 09:25:54 yeah, ive heard of that one Nov 06 09:26:05 not a huge issue i wouldnt think Nov 06 09:26:10 vice versa would suck Nov 06 09:26:30 spikebike, did it work? Nov 06 09:26:40 look at his entry here, though: Nov 06 09:26:41 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1207 Nov 06 09:26:42 damnit, i want one of these buggy g1s Nov 06 09:26:49 if they patch all this shit i wont buy one Nov 06 09:26:58 The next thing I tried was (on the remote server) symlinking /sbin/reboot Nov 06 09:27:01 to /sbin/clk Nov 06 09:27:09 When I then typed "clk" on the command line of the remote server via Nov 06 09:27:09 connectbot, the remote server rebooted as expected, and the gphone did not Nov 06 09:27:09 reboot (also as expected). Nov 06 09:27:21 that's hilarious Nov 06 09:28:11 heh Nov 06 09:28:23 lol Nov 06 09:28:31 I can imagine the admin that replaced kruton going WTF, why would anyone link clk to reboot Nov 06 09:28:42 good thing is its not a connectbot issue Nov 06 09:28:46 rofl Nov 06 09:29:10 ok, i need sleep Nov 06 09:29:14 work tomorrow Nov 06 09:29:20 gn and have fun everyone :) Nov 06 09:29:39 spikebike: That wasn't me. I would have symlinked "ls" to "reboot" Nov 06 09:29:41 i should add that info to the wiki tomorrow btw Nov 06 09:29:50 lol Nov 06 09:30:19 btw I get 130kbit and 40 kbit Nov 06 09:31:35 oh cool Nov 06 09:31:43 in the dialer you can spell a phone number Nov 06 09:31:43 I'm sed to getting around 900/600 on Sprint Nov 06 09:31:59 so you can type 1-800-gotmilk or whatever Nov 06 09:32:12 luckily reboot doesn't match a 7 digit number Nov 06 09:32:54 * kRutOn . o O ( Give me a call at 732668 ) Nov 06 09:49:03 Does anyone know if there is a application that uploads to Picasa and supports the phone's geolocation support? I can only find Pixelpipe and it doesn't seem to take the geolocation stuff, just the photo Nov 06 10:07:52 I am now cradling my new tmo g1 Nov 06 10:08:51 does anyone know anything about how the album/music thumbnail voodoo works? Nov 06 10:10:58 P2E: i assume it extracts it from embedded id3v2 tags? Nov 06 10:11:28 yes, but then it's stored on the card Nov 06 10:11:35 in thumbnails/ or whatever Nov 06 10:12:50 so, for example, we have thumbnails/1225404254133 which is just a jpeg cover and Brett Dennen - Ain't No Reason.mp3 in music/ Nov 06 10:12:53 P2E: it looks liek MediaStore keeps all of it organized, along with the MediaScanner service that you can connect with Nov 06 10:13:23 what I'm wondering is, how did we come up with 1225404254133 Nov 06 10:13:36 because if we can figure that out, we don't need to embed art (which I can't do, because I don't use mp3s) Nov 06 10:14:09 that looks slightly like a unix timestamp Nov 06 10:14:41 along with maybe a 3-digit unique identifier Nov 06 10:15:02 well, the thumbs for the bundled music on the phone are unique to the last 5 digits Nov 06 10:15:12 that is, all are 12254042xxxxx Nov 06 10:15:42 what is the file modified time in unix time? (does the time differ between the mp3s?) Nov 06 10:15:49 hold on, let me find out Nov 06 10:16:01 the datestamp definitely doesn't Nov 06 10:16:21 i wonder if you touch them all before mediascanner gets to them Nov 06 10:16:22 1225404254 => "Thu Oct 30 15:04:14 2008 PDT" Nov 06 10:16:51 well lol we have the source now, /me goes to dig for it Nov 06 10:16:57 ok, so yeah, that's good Nov 06 10:17:04 but now, 133 Nov 06 10:17:21 that's just the MHz rating of your Pentium II Nov 06 10:17:28 :P lol Nov 06 10:17:46 lose =] I used a k5 back then Nov 06 10:18:12 You so poor you used a Cyrix Nov 06 10:18:20 lose again =] amd made the k5 Nov 06 10:18:39 I know, but Cyrix were the cheapest Nov 06 10:18:50 and worst Nov 06 10:19:23 * P2E looks for other information.... md5 is 39b740f1522ff33a92dce558da72f07d filesize is 5275165 Nov 06 10:20:20 ripped with iTunes =[ Nov 06 10:20:33 aww, eac ftw Nov 06 10:23:14 Does anyone know if there is a application that uploads to Picasa and supports the phone's geolocation support? I can only find Pixelpipe and it doesn't seem to take the geolocation stuff, just the photo Nov 06 10:23:24 (sorry the channel didn't look active until now :) Nov 06 10:24:15 hey kRutOn, umdk1d3 :) Nov 06 10:24:21 all album thumbnail files are 1225404254133, 1225404255145, 1225404258383, 1225404259392, 1225404259873, 1225404260043, 1225404260728, 1225404260952, 1225404261155, 1225404261598, 1225404262271 Nov 06 10:24:45 maybe I'll copy the same song on again as another filename and see if 133 stays the same Nov 06 10:25:04 aha Nov 06 10:26:09 P2E: maybe it's just the row id that SQLite picked Nov 06 10:26:27 yea its the sqlite "_data" column looks like Nov 06 10:26:33 tryign to find where its generated tho Nov 06 10:27:55 and more importantly Nov 06 10:28:01 how to get it for whatever file Nov 06 10:28:20 String name = String.valueOf(System.currentTimeMillis()); Nov 06 10:28:44 ok, with the new file, it didn't regenerate art. Nov 06 10:28:50 well P2E to get info you should use the normal contentresolver approach Nov 06 10:28:53 even though it was a different name Nov 06 10:29:06 kRutOn: aha thats what those extra three digits are ;) milliseconds Nov 06 10:29:25 umdk1d3: yeah, duh.. should have thought of it Nov 06 10:29:33 I'm trying to take this from an enduser approach Nov 06 10:29:35 its late ;) Nov 06 10:29:51 I don't want to write anything on the phone, just figure out what I need to name a file for an app to get stuff onto it Nov 06 10:30:01 umdk1d3: Do you think I should extend ArrayAdapter or create a new Cursor... Nov 06 10:30:08 P2E: what does the end user want to do with thte thumbnails? Nov 06 10:30:17 kRutOn: for ssh hosts not in the db? Nov 06 10:30:22 uh, you mean other than see them when they're playing their music? =] Nov 06 10:30:29 umdk1d3: This is actually for the port forwards Nov 06 10:30:49 P2E: to see them on their desktop, or on the phone? Nov 06 10:30:53 on the phone. Nov 06 10:31:26 umdk1d3: ArrayAdapter doesn't offer a view binder Nov 06 10:31:39 well, like i said, the MediaStore provides a nice ContentProvider that you could query Nov 06 10:31:49 umdk1d3: Which I guess makes sense Nov 06 10:31:54 the media store does not catalog videogame soundtracks =] Nov 06 10:31:57 kRutOn: SimpleAdapter also provides a binder? Nov 06 10:32:49 well, thats the issue i suppose, its looking for indexes to bind from Nov 06 10:33:05 its pretty easy to write your own adapter Nov 06 10:33:22 sometimes ArrayAdapter can get in the way Nov 06 10:33:46 instead of repackaging stuff into arrays for it to use, a custom adapter could easily iterate over the List of tunnels Nov 06 10:34:19 umdk1d3: I think I'll just make a small extension of ArrayAdapter that has a custom getView Nov 06 10:36:35 oops we ignored digitalspaghetti Nov 06 10:36:51 :p Nov 06 10:37:05 thats ok, you seem to be in a groove :) Nov 06 10:37:06 digitalspaghetti: i havent really dug into all the apps, so not sure Nov 06 10:37:10 digitalspaghetti: sorry, I must admit I prefer analog spaghetti Nov 06 10:37:55 umdk1d3: yea it seems to no apps use the option to add geocoding to a photo Nov 06 10:38:34 digitalspaghetti: have you emailed the pixelpipe devs and asked if its an upcoming feature? Nov 06 10:38:49 * umdk1d3 has done horrible job of ignoring all market emails ;) Nov 06 10:38:51 no, but i was going to Nov 06 10:39:13 brb Nov 06 10:50:20 whoops, locked up my phone Nov 06 10:50:53 oh, no I didn't Nov 06 10:51:54 ..used the BRICK permission? :P Nov 06 10:52:15 I don't need permission to lay bricks Nov 06 10:53:50 any new phones coming out that run android? or any new ports? Nov 06 10:59:30 heh cant believe the locking down had such a big hole (mtd) Nov 06 11:02:41 cmonex: mhm, which one? Nov 06 11:04:43 cmonex: do you mean the telnetd thingy? Nov 06 11:05:40 hmm, naming a jpeg as the unix timestamp didn't seem to wkr Nov 06 11:05:42 er, work Nov 06 11:05:58 I added 000 to the end of it just for the sake of matching Nov 06 11:06:43 pandzilla: Nov 06 11:06:46 no, mtd. Nov 06 11:07:03 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2870558#post2870558 Nov 06 11:07:28 well mtd to read the partitions.. then that flash image tool.. Nov 06 11:08:02 this would never happen on the unsecure WM .. that htc would leave a tool that calls the nand driver to flash the bootloader at will :) Nov 06 11:08:16 of course the recovery is not bootloader, but it has the ability to flash that too.. Nov 06 11:08:28 hah Nov 06 11:09:21 I see, I see Nov 06 11:09:24 yeah, i'm speechless. what a big hole Nov 06 11:10:24 it being open source certainly helped too... recompiling recovery is easier than patching an existing one ;) Nov 06 11:11:37 for sure :) Nov 06 11:12:23 how long ago was the hole found? Nov 06 11:18:36 rwhitby: today.. (my time) Nov 06 11:18:58 * rwhitby adds the links to android-internals.org Nov 06 11:19:23 but i'm saying the hack is not complete until a patched hboot.img is flashed via this custom recovery.. so if something goes wrong you can easily fall back to SPL. also the recovery should just accept any key, not just that test cert Nov 06 11:19:51 ofcourse the problem is getting the hboot.img, but i have ideas about dumping it Nov 06 11:34:17 oh i just read abut the jailbreaking via telnet :) Nov 06 11:50:34 ohwow i just realised its been a year since the public android announcement Nov 06 12:01:38 umdk1d3: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/android/android.20071106.txt :-) Nov 06 12:04:01 "Nov 12 16:21:10 downloads available. Nov 06 12:04:01 " Nov 06 12:05:25 rwhitby: awesome Nov 06 12:05:47 * umdk1d3 goes to look at logs Nov 06 12:06:52 doh i only have logs going back to february Nov 06 12:09:04 hey guys Nov 06 12:09:11 any bugs with the market and number of downloads? Nov 06 12:09:20 so what device should I get to run android? Nov 06 12:09:31 I'm still showing < 50 downloads and now up to 24 reviews Nov 06 12:09:39 hi Nov 06 12:09:42 bloo: yea i think there is some funky stuff happening Nov 06 12:09:53 I can't imagine any market application has > %50 review to download ratio Nov 06 12:09:53 like there are some apps with <50 downloads at the top of the popular list Nov 06 12:09:54 managed to get root in adb :D Nov 06 12:09:57 (no su) Nov 06 12:10:15 just adb -d shell and got root now :D Nov 06 12:10:20 full jailbreak ;) Nov 06 12:10:33 and previously i was getting like 1000 downloads a day with other versions, but this has been at like < 50 since saturday Nov 06 12:13:05 thanks umdk1d3 Nov 06 12:13:28 anyone have an opinion on whether essential functions should be in context menus only on mobile devices Nov 06 12:14:04 with desktop apps, its usually a nono, but on mobile platforms i feel that the scarcity of screen space makes it acceptable Nov 06 12:14:26 you mean the general menus? Nov 06 12:14:32 but of course, i get a bunch of people who cant figure out how to delete something in my program Nov 06 12:14:37 (context menus still hold their place with longpress on items) Nov 06 12:14:57 imho people will get used to it Nov 06 12:15:16 as long as you follow the pattern in other packaged apps that come with the platform Nov 06 12:17:46 dream_kill_offic, ?? Nov 06 12:17:50 umdk: i feel like I do, and I still get people leaving reviews like the screen is blank, I cant figure out what to do, or please let us delete items Nov 06 12:18:08 simple :D Nov 06 12:18:13 flashed my recovery Nov 06 12:18:22 then made my own update.zip Nov 06 12:18:22 ahh Nov 06 12:18:23 bloo: are you showing an @android:id/empty if using a listactivity? Nov 06 12:18:31 and then on the other hand, when people email me to offer suggestions and I ask them, "why do you use my software" Nov 06 12:18:38 they say its because of the interface Nov 06 12:18:40 which removed the jailbrak :D Nov 06 12:19:08 si now when i adb -d shell now is drect root Nov 06 12:19:11 umdk: no, I'm just showing a textview when it's empty and hiding it when its full, didnt realise that android:empty existed Nov 06 12:19:23 im assuming that displays some text when a list view has nothing in it? Nov 06 12:19:53 bloo: yea sounds like you already have that tho Nov 06 12:20:26 there isnt anything super special about android:id/empty Nov 06 12:20:47 its just simpler than checking, oh is the list empty and setting my textview to display Nov 06 12:20:52 when used along with a android:id/list in a ListActivity, it takes care of showing hiding as needed based on the Adapter having items/empty Nov 06 12:21:24 so if you have empty helper text there, people are still complaining? lol Nov 06 12:21:34 longpress to edit/delete is all over the place Nov 06 12:22:01 its probably them just not "getting it" yet Nov 06 12:22:09 umdk: yeh i dont know how these people even got into the market Nov 06 12:22:22 haha Nov 06 12:22:37 ive gotten the most odd emails from people Nov 06 12:22:42 I wish you could meta moderate the app market comments Nov 06 12:22:57 i wish you could get external access to the market content/comments Nov 06 12:23:24 external as in website or webservice? Nov 06 12:23:26 tomgibara: agreed, all those wallpaper spam adverts and political stuff Nov 06 12:23:34 anyone having trouble downloading apps off the market right now? (in the UK at least) Nov 06 12:23:39 i concur Nov 06 12:23:46 i had problems browsing the market this morning Nov 06 12:23:47 well, i would be very interested in getting an rss feed of new market apps at least Nov 06 12:23:48 andatche: No (and am in UK) Nov 06 12:24:11 everything else seems to work, and I can browse it fine, it just never downloads anything Nov 06 12:24:22 I was thinking more of people who don't understand what an app does, so give it 1* Nov 06 12:24:37 i wish theyd have an auto updater Nov 06 12:24:50 i have wayyy too many people emailing me with feature requests that ive already implemented Nov 06 12:25:32 bloo: do you have an update checker of your own written in yet? Nov 06 12:25:48 bloo: might take a peek at http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/ Nov 06 12:25:48 market works here too (uk using t-mobile 3g) Nov 06 12:26:14 bloo: Yeah, I fixed a bad puppy of a bug in that a couple of days ago Nov 06 12:26:25 will reboot and see if that fixes it Nov 06 12:26:42 bloo: or something like this if your looking for something a bit lighter --> http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/source/browse/trunk/connectbot/src/org/connectbot/util/UpdateHelper.java Nov 06 12:27:04 actually, that versoin is a bit bloated Nov 06 12:27:09 with frequency checks Nov 06 12:27:14 my plan was to automatically download updated apps Nov 06 12:27:28 http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/source/browse/trunk/connectbot/src/org/connectbot/util/UpdateHelper.java?r=82 <-- that one is simpler and more general Nov 06 12:27:34 but i cant because the installer crashes if i install my app through downloading it by the browser Nov 06 12:27:48 bloo: all you can really do is launch an intent over to market Nov 06 12:27:49 something about INSTALL_SHORTCUT permission Nov 06 12:28:06 ohhh didnt realise the market has intents Nov 06 12:28:14 thanks guys Nov 06 12:28:35 bloo: yea take a peek at that second link there, its some simple code that gets the job done Nov 06 12:28:54 and if you need something more flexible, check out veecheck Nov 06 12:29:20 i have this error when i try to compile, help please...build/core/product_config.mk:229: WARNING: adding test OTA key Nov 06 12:29:21 build/core/main.mk:177: implicitly installing apns-conf_sdk.xml Nov 06 12:29:21 make: *** No rule to make target `/lib/tools.jar', needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'. Stop. Nov 06 12:31:05 grrr this stupid thing doesnt work on my g1 but does in emulator Nov 06 12:31:13 are mac fonts .ttf as well? Nov 06 12:35:04 anyone have wakelock experience? Nov 06 12:36:34 don't even know what that is...?! Nov 06 12:36:38 bloo: connectbot is using it in ConsoleActivity Nov 06 12:36:49 pandzilla: it can keep your device from falling alseep Nov 06 12:37:07 it seems to work fine in the emulator Nov 06 12:37:14 but on my g1 i cant get the screen to flick on Nov 06 12:37:32 oh you want to force wake up the device? Nov 06 12:38:07 i have an sms receiver Nov 06 12:38:18 i want to turn the screen on when an sms is received Nov 06 12:38:41 i got it working on the emulator Nov 06 12:38:48 but doesnt seem to wanna turn on in my g1 Nov 06 12:39:42 gotcha Nov 06 12:42:15 hmm seems like as soon as you release the wake lock, the screen goes to sleep maybe on the g1? Nov 06 12:42:19 but not on the emulator? Nov 06 12:42:58 i basically amd doing wakelock.acquire;wakelock.release Nov 06 12:43:06 if i comment out release it turns the screen on Nov 06 12:43:30 on my g1 but obviously doesnt let it turn off Nov 06 12:44:03 grrr Nov 06 12:48:33 man Nov 06 12:48:35 turn me on Nov 06 12:48:43 TURN ME ON with this g1 Nov 06 12:48:54 all these fix this fix that crap Nov 06 12:48:56 lol sheesh Nov 06 12:49:26 on_after_release doesnt seem to be working for me Nov 06 12:49:27 grrr Nov 06 12:52:19 yeah thats it, i just noticed the screen flickers on for like a 5th of a second Nov 06 12:52:28 final PowerManager.WakeLock wakelock = pm.newWakeLock(PowerManager.SCREEN_BRIGHT_WAKE_LOCK | PowerManager.ACQUIRE_CAUSES_WAKEUP | PowerManager.ON_AFTER_RELEASE, "power lock"); Nov 06 12:52:28 Nov 06 12:52:32 anything look wrong with that? Nov 06 13:10:06 If I use canvas.drawText(...) then it draws it base don the baseline of the font.. can I somehow change it so that it draws the top/bottom/center (whatever else) at the coordinates that I specify? Nov 06 13:12:03 re Nov 06 13:14:42 Anyone know if android resource URIs can be supplied directly to a WebView? - doesn't seem to work. Nov 06 13:18:51 the dox say that: "The origin is interpreted based on the Align setting in the paint. " but I can only set the horizontal alignment for the paint with paint.setTextAlign() is there a possibility to set the vertical one too? Or at least determine where the baseline is compared to absolute top/bottom ? Nov 06 13:25:40 come on.. somebody has surely cried over the same problem as I'm facing :P Nov 06 13:26:38 ..textPaint.baselineShift is also 0.. so this one is not helping either :/ Nov 06 13:29:16 ok, found it :) paint.getFontMetrics().bottom Nov 06 13:46:49 Does video recording work? It's not in the public docs, but it's in the java api... Nov 06 13:47:02 android.media.MediaRecorder Nov 06 13:48:19 There's no video recording on the G1 at this point. I'm not sure whether that's because of hardware restrictions, driver restrictions or android framework restrictions. Nov 06 13:48:50 jbq_: hopefully it'll get sorted Nov 06 13:48:59 is there a picture -> flickr app yet? Nov 06 13:49:30 MediaRecorder mr = new MediaRecorder(); mr.setVideoSource(VideoSource.CAMERA); Nov 06 13:50:05 thoraxe: yes, PixelPipe Nov 06 13:50:08 mr.setVideoEncoder(VideoEncoder.H264) Nov 06 13:50:20 however it doesn't support geoencoding photo's yet :( Nov 06 13:50:32 its in the java API I pulled from git at least, in 1.0 release Nov 06 13:50:36 digitalspaghetti: is it in the marketplace? Nov 06 13:50:40 thoraxe: yes Nov 06 13:51:01 the app can upload to several targets including flickr, picasa, facebook, twitter, etv Nov 06 13:51:02 no matches for pixel Nov 06 13:51:05 ghetto Nov 06 13:51:10 the app search is really poor Nov 06 13:51:34 just search by date, there was a recent update to it Nov 06 13:51:39 you'd think a company founded on SEARCH could make their app SEARCH work Nov 06 13:51:42 i had to search for pixelpipe Nov 06 13:51:43 you also need to sign up a pixelpipe account Nov 06 13:51:50 1.03 Nov 06 13:51:54 Sorry digital Nov 06 13:51:55 hey digitalspaghetti... didn't you use to hang out in #jquery? Nov 06 13:52:01 thoraxe: yea, google have missed some tricks on the phone Nov 06 13:52:01 tweakt_: if it's not in the SDK, you shouldn't assume that it's gonna stay there. Nov 06 13:52:02 iPhone typo Nov 06 13:52:03 Chainfire: still do :) Nov 06 13:52:15 heh i knew I knew that nick from somewhere :) Nov 06 13:52:21 i spent some time in jquery not too long ago Nov 06 13:52:26 then i abandoned the project i wanted to do with it Nov 06 13:52:26 jbq_: blah, yeah it's not in the official jar file from the SDK Nov 06 13:52:26 video recording not working on G1? Nov 06 13:53:29 thoraxe: you would think Google would have a Picasa app that tied into the Geocoding for photo's on launch :| Nov 06 13:53:33 digitalspaghetti: i wonder when pixelpipe is going to start charging Nov 06 13:53:35 Man Im scared to purchase a g1 Nov 06 13:53:40 digitalspaghetti: dude that would make sense right? Nov 06 13:53:48 maybe google realizes picasa is a pile of poo Nov 06 13:56:17 is that app name request form for use of the Android name up yet? Nov 06 13:56:28 yea, but at least you get 2g space as opposed to Picasa's 200 picture limit Nov 06 13:56:48 picasa has a 200 picture limit? Nov 06 13:57:00 Flickr's 200 picture limit even Nov 06 13:57:08 flickr is 200 pics *per month* Nov 06 13:57:11 not 200 pics total Nov 06 13:57:36 really? oh! that would make sense then Nov 06 13:57:47 digitalspaghetti: i thought the same as you at first too, then i re-read Nov 06 13:59:03 still only have the 3 album limit though :( Nov 06 13:59:13 with picasa you only get 1 gig Nov 06 13:59:23 albums or sets? Nov 06 13:59:54 can you use pixelpipe with a wordpress.org blog? Nov 06 13:59:59 sets Nov 06 14:00:01 thoraxe: yes Nov 06 14:00:24 digitalspaghetti: hmm... do you have to supply the login url or the root blog url Nov 06 14:00:51 probally the xml-rpc url Nov 06 14:01:01 http://yourblog.com/xmlrpc.php Nov 06 14:06:53 o Nov 06 14:08:03 did it work? Nov 06 14:08:25 didn't trty Nov 06 14:08:59 i'm more interested in just finding a lifestream plugin/mod for wordpress that puts the twitter/flickr/etc. in the wordpress loop Nov 06 14:09:08 all the lifestream plugins i'm finding put the lifestream in like a sidebar or something Nov 06 14:16:28 published my second app to the market yay Nov 06 14:17:19 bloo, what kind of app? Nov 06 14:17:29 more of a utility Nov 06 14:17:38 it turns the screen on when you get a sms Nov 06 14:17:52 useful for when you have it sitting on your desk Nov 06 14:18:02 checking it out now Nov 06 14:18:07 it got annoying real quick having to grab phone unlock it and check Nov 06 14:18:41 hello Mike DiGiovanni ;) Nov 06 14:18:57 hello digital spaghetti Nov 06 14:20:17 i'll need to wait and get a text now :) Nov 06 14:20:39 thats why you need 2 phones now Nov 06 14:21:55 i already asked t-mobile :) Nov 06 14:21:57 my other app isnt showing up now when searching by date grrr Nov 06 14:22:09 they said no, as i'm a new customer, i have to wait at least 3 months Nov 06 14:22:31 i still have my old sprint account Nov 06 14:22:37 hoping sprint gets a android phone soon Nov 06 14:22:42 UK T-Mobile Nov 06 14:22:56 ooh yeah i forgot they launched in uk already Nov 06 14:28:27 where is a good place for allot of src code for android apps Nov 06 14:30:09 hey is robert stevens here? Nov 06 14:31:07 morning all Nov 06 14:31:21 good morning Disconnect Nov 06 14:32:18 * Disconnect sees no 'light-up sms' app in the marketplace btw :/ Nov 06 14:32:20 yea, what is the issue w/video recording? Is it possible to drop resolution? Nov 06 14:32:43 scratch that, found it. stupid cache :/ Nov 06 14:32:50 disconnect, dg Screen On Nov 06 14:32:59 i need a better name and icon Nov 06 14:33:15 Clever android fellows using gdb, what version are you using? http://www.billrocks.org/ideas/index.php?/archives/20-Debugging-Android-Native-C-Applications-with-gdb.html#extended ? Or are you compiling your own? Nov 06 14:33:34 and fyi you can always sms google to get incoming sms's :) or i think there's a tmob service that msgs you your minutes or something, good for a quick (free) response Nov 06 14:34:04 bloo: nobody will use it cuz it doesn't ask for gps and net access or the ability to read my contacts or anything. Nov 06 14:34:06 bloo, sms screen alert Nov 06 14:34:06 :) Nov 06 14:34:21 also "timeout" text is truncated Nov 06 14:35:01 donation should indicate where it goes (amazon it looks like?) eg "Donate via my Amazon donation page" or something in the text Nov 06 14:35:06 bloo, can u make the screen blink different ways? Nov 06 14:35:22 thats a new one - my gf phoned there and my PC just picked up the call and routed it through the speakers! Nov 06 14:35:29 ionstorm, i had originally tried to drop the keyguard Nov 06 14:35:42 but for some reason it turned into a complete mess and wasn reliable Nov 06 14:35:56 so i fell back to this which works good enough for me Nov 06 14:36:12 but if theres a lot of requests for the original way id look into it Nov 06 14:36:33 my original plan was to display a screen showing the entire text message for some period of time Nov 06 14:37:13 yea, a popup of some sort, maybe a little bubble Nov 06 14:37:27 a fade away alert Nov 06 14:38:05 dude, what about a app update notification app Nov 06 14:38:50 that would be tight because you'll never know if the app you got updated unless u constantly check the app market Nov 06 14:38:57 like apt-get update Nov 06 14:39:41 ionstorm: they're working on that on the lists right now Nov 06 14:40:04 so is the marketplace open source too? Nov 06 14:40:11 but i couldnt figure out how to relock the screen, even though the api seemed to indicate it was easy Nov 06 14:40:43 nope Nov 06 14:43:37 since i put the screen on app up, ive gotten like 5 emails from it Nov 06 14:44:10 did anyone try it? i got one email saying it didnt work, and Nov 06 14:44:11 Disconnect, which lists Nov 06 14:45:45 grr it doesnt work Nov 06 14:45:51 i swear i tested it Nov 06 14:47:28 lol Nov 06 14:47:44 ionstorm: i'll dig it out in a bit but its one of the main android-* ones Nov 06 14:48:48 ugh wtf did i do Nov 06 14:54:28 i broke it how the fuck did i break it Nov 06 14:54:55 sigh Nov 06 14:55:24 lol Nov 06 14:55:39 it still works in the emulator of course grrr Nov 06 14:57:22 lol Nov 06 14:57:44 i swear i tested it on the phone Nov 06 14:58:19 and now i cant get the debugger to attach to my phone Nov 06 14:59:53 Is it possible to try the android market and download stuff to the android emulator ? Nov 06 15:00:12 I can't figure it out Nov 06 15:00:26 I'd have thought so Nov 06 15:00:29 lemme try Nov 06 15:00:59 this is the most frustrating thing ive ever witnessed Nov 06 15:01:08 my screen just died Nov 06 15:01:09 i know i had it working because i remember not being able to get the screen to go off Nov 06 15:01:11 it won't come on Nov 06 15:01:39 it's like poewred up Nov 06 15:01:44 but it's not showing anything Nov 06 15:01:45 great. Nov 06 15:02:09 dysinger_: ah, now I see your dilemma. I have no "Market" icon. Nov 06 15:02:19 found the app updater http://openintents.googlecode.com/files/UpdateChecker.apk Nov 06 15:02:29 so is there any kind of support for the Android, besides this channel? Nov 06 15:02:59 offby1, the android developer group Nov 06 15:03:05 ok so i found the problem out and its lame Nov 06 15:03:13 mailing lists: http://source.android.com/discuss Nov 06 15:03:16 < DarkriftX> reboot your phone and open dialer, type "reboot" instead of a phone number and hit enter Nov 06 15:03:21 offby1: t-mobile if you have a g1 Nov 06 15:03:24 wow, that's ... Nov 06 15:03:24 ionstorm: what is that? A mailing list? Nov 06 15:03:28 thoraxe: ugh :) Nov 06 15:03:41 thoraxe: I've already got a couple of requests in to them; they're idiots Nov 06 15:03:43 How did they manage to fsck up Linux so badly?! Nov 06 15:04:05 Did they just leave a spawned shell listening to the keyboard in the background by accident? Nov 06 15:04:07 offby1: the official mailing lists. Nov 06 15:04:28 That could explain how the telnetd root hack works (if it's running telnetd in some background root shell, rather than in pterminal, because it's listening to the keyboard) Nov 06 15:04:35 offby1, http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en Nov 06 15:04:54 jimp: 'reboot' is a shortcut just like all the various *#min#* and such Nov 06 15:05:11 does it work in the emulator? Nov 06 15:05:13 ionstorm: thanks Nov 06 15:05:17 offby1, np Nov 06 15:05:26 (why do people always leap to such -entertaining- assumptions??) Nov 06 15:05:34 Disconnect: the xda post suggested that it works outside the dialer (like in SMS) Nov 06 15:05:40 and that other apps like telnetd also can be run through the dialer Nov 06 15:05:52 So shortcut makes no sense. Nov 06 15:06:01 let's see how t-mobile handles my broken g1 Nov 06 15:06:09 ..and did you try it? Nov 06 15:06:27 thoraxe: I suspect: they won't :-| Nov 06 15:06:29 Disconnect: No, I'm waiting for a phone call and don't want to keep rebooting my phone. Nov 06 15:06:29 im so confused Nov 06 15:06:36 thoraxe: well, maybe if you nag them constantly. Nov 06 15:06:40 thoraxe, saw another customer have your blank screen problem while I was purchasing my g-1, yanking the battery and replacing it worked for her. might help you too. Nov 06 15:06:41 i had a final PowerManager.wakelock used in an innerclass. Nov 06 15:06:48 reboot in the 'to' field makes perfect sense - same handler as dialer. Nov 06 15:06:49 joakime: already tried that twice Nov 06 15:06:58 The post clearly says that you must do it shortly after rebooting and that you can't cut-and-paste, you must type. Nov 06 15:07:05 Shortcuts dont' fit that description. Have you read the post? Nov 06 15:07:07 well, not only do i have insurance i also have had the phone less than a month Nov 06 15:07:15 so they BETTER do something about it. Nov 06 15:07:24 thoraxe: I hope they do! Nov 06 15:07:29 and I hope they get back to me, too :-| Nov 06 15:07:31 thoraxe: ask them to make sure you don't lose all your sent/received sms's. Nov 06 15:07:42 Disconnect: i couldnt' care less about them Nov 06 15:07:45 Disconnect: where are those stored? Nov 06 15:07:54 * offby1 knows but little of cell phones Nov 06 15:07:58 there is really nothing in the phone i am concerned about besides a few pics and mp3s, but those are on the SD card Nov 06 15:08:14 <`vip> is there an app to let me save youtube vids to my phone ? Nov 06 15:08:19 thoraxe: yah but its a standard replacing-a-phone feature to move the data over. i'd love to hear them explain why you can't be trusted with your backups. Nov 06 15:09:19 i'm surprised i've had to hold this long for a rep Nov 06 15:09:41 which leads me to believe there are bigger issues afoot Nov 06 15:09:58 a local wakelock appears to release as soon as the method ends Nov 06 15:10:10 even if its final and used in an anonymous class Nov 06 15:11:18 i dont get it sigh Nov 06 15:11:23 Disconnect: I've searched through the source for the dialer and related apps and can't find this "reboot" shortcut that you insist exists. Can you point to the file? Nov 06 15:11:25 any word of a sirius/sm player? Nov 06 15:11:52 when they do make a sirius/xm* player, it would be nice to have a "tivo" option Nov 06 15:12:17 where it has a buffer of like 10 mins Nov 06 15:12:23 and you can hit record Nov 06 15:13:00 "let me try one more time for you. it seems like no one is picking up [in the android service department]" Nov 06 15:13:29 well, good to know that there are people there to assist Nov 06 15:14:07 jimp: did you find the IMEI display from *#06#? cuz if not, you're in the wrong place Nov 06 15:14:44 Disconnect: Yeah, of course. Nov 06 15:15:03 ./Contacts/src/com/android/contacts/SpecialCharSequenceMgr.java Nov 06 15:15:08 And there's nothing in there about reboot. Nov 06 15:15:24 also, did you type "ps" on the console and see if there is a getty or something listening? Nov 06 15:16:10 (and i just dialed reboot. nada.) Nov 06 15:16:18 You're thick. Nov 06 15:16:24 Did you forget the part about how you need to do this soon after reboot? Nov 06 15:17:34 * Disconnect isn't the one making wild (illogical -and- untested) assumptions about the phone. Nov 06 15:17:43 i did reboot first dumbass Nov 06 15:17:56 http://www.flickr.com/photos/84656963@N00/3007435817/ Nov 06 15:18:11 Disconnect: so you turn around and make equally illogical counterarguments. Useful! Nov 06 15:18:23 It's clearly not a shortcut, so don't act like you know what's going on. Nov 06 15:18:39 right. its not a shortcut because it -doesn't work-.. Nov 06 15:18:40 I was speculating and admitting that I was speculating, not stating things as fact. Nov 06 15:18:57 10:04 < Disconnect> jimp: 'reboot' is a shortcut just like all the various *#min#* and such Nov 06 15:19:04 ^^ clearly untrue from the source. Nov 06 15:19:33 Also, for the record, I did just try it -- and shortly after powering on the phone, yes, typing "reboot" into the dialer with the keyboard reboots the phone. Nov 06 15:20:55 ok fixed my screen turn onner i think Nov 06 15:21:26 also, 'telnetd' works even long after a reboot. Nov 06 15:21:40 Not in my tests. Nov 06 15:21:42 Are you making things up again? Nov 06 15:21:57 You'll notice that posts like: Nov 06 15:22:00 http://www.android-unleashed.com/2008/11/howto-get-root-on-your-android-g1-and.html Nov 06 15:22:03 Include the phrase: Nov 06 15:22:10 "reboot your phone, open pterminal quickly" Nov 06 15:22:44 Well Nov 06 15:22:51 when I originally discovered the telnetd thing Nov 06 15:22:56 my phone had been on for a couple days.. Nov 06 15:23:00 i've never had to reboot to run it. only rebooted once because it wasn't working (the broken shell won't parse /system/bin/telnetd properly - rebooting didn't fix that but cd system ; cd bin did..) Nov 06 15:23:10 but yea Nov 06 15:23:17 I found I needed to actually be *in* bin to do it Nov 06 15:23:26 it also says "type telnetd 2 or 3 times" .. that post is hardly a font of good advice Nov 06 15:23:49 tried to do a reset, didn't work Nov 06 15:23:58 it's under 14 days so they will exchange it in the store Nov 06 15:26:53 Can anyone help? I get this error when I try to compile android from source: build/core/product_config.mk:229: WARNING: adding test OTA key Nov 06 15:26:53 build/core/main.mk:177: implicitly installing apns-conf_sdk.xml Nov 06 15:26:53 make: *** No rule to make target `/lib/tools.jar', needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'. Stop. Nov 06 15:28:46 slackware 12.1 if that makes any difference Nov 06 15:28:58 jdk 6.0 Nov 06 15:30:55 Ez-DvD: I don't know, but "/lib/tools.jar" seems to be missing something important before it Nov 06 15:31:09 maybe check the makefile and see what variable should have been expanded there, then figure out why it's empty Nov 06 15:33:38 published the new and working dg SMS Screen Alert Nov 06 15:34:55 HAHAHA Nov 06 15:35:06 ## Daemon processes to be run by init. Nov 06 15:35:06 ## Nov 06 15:35:06 service console /system/bin/sh console Nov 06 15:35:21 It's almost certainly my suspicion. Nov 06 15:35:34 /system/bin/sh is spawned on the console by /init.rc !!! Nov 06 15:35:48 That's awesome. Nov 06 15:36:03 (Also, disconnect, you can suck it.) Nov 06 15:39:05 Yes, that is certainly the cause of both the dialer bug and the telnetd bug. Nov 06 15:39:16 "cat /dev/console" on the device clearly shows everything that you type on the keyboard. Nov 06 15:39:55 And init.c opens /dev/console and uses it if the open succeeds. Nov 06 15:39:57 so test in the dialer, touch a file on the file system Nov 06 15:40:30 wastrel: It's a little tricky because the keyboard mapping isn't right Nov 06 15:40:45 so things like alt don't work, and I can't type a slash Nov 06 15:41:14 HAHA Nov 06 15:41:23 you can even type "reboot" at the lock screen, and it still reboots the phone. Nov 06 15:42:47 ok that is fun Nov 06 15:43:05 Finally someone figured it out. Too bad really. All that talk about the "magic telnetd" was quite entertaining. :) Nov 06 15:45:32 ok works for me in the dialer, not at the lock screen Nov 06 15:46:08 Well, it's going to be finicky because you have multiple apps trying to read the keyboard at once, I suppose. Nov 06 15:46:12 can you set a hostname for an android device? Nov 06 15:47:57 mattgyver83: not that I'm aware Nov 06 15:48:57 sorry to disturb but but how can I change the divider color in ListView? setting android:divider= to something removes the divider completely Nov 06 15:49:14 I tried creating a hostname file to put in /etc/ however the folder is read only, can i change that as root temporarily? Nov 06 15:49:52 can somebody explain me the steps to put my own application in the source code Nov 06 15:50:08 mattgyver83: you'll still need to put the infrastructure in place (in the libc) to set/read the hostname Nov 06 15:50:12 mattgyver83: what are you trying to achieve? Even if you could make your phone think it had a hostname that way (which I doubt), you still wouldn't be able to reach it by that name, because no DNS would know about it. Nov 06 15:50:15 wakelocks r horrible and make me wanna cry Nov 06 15:54:06 does tmobile assign the g1 some kind of dynamic ip behind thier proxy? Nov 06 15:54:11 yes Nov 06 15:54:43 mine is usually 10.something Nov 06 15:54:58 can you use a dynamic ip service to resolve the phone name? Nov 06 15:55:10 its internal Nov 06 15:55:26 wastrel: Aah, I know the reason for the unreliability: if you type a command like "cat" or anything else that doesn't return, the shell will just hang waiting for the process Nov 06 15:55:29 so future input gets ignored. Nov 06 15:55:44 That's why you need to do this stuff after reboot, in some cases. Nov 06 15:56:11 jimp, You're kinda barking up the wrong tree. Nov 06 15:56:28 pawalls: explain Nov 06 15:56:29 jimp, The stuff in init.rc gets started through the "service" binary, which drops privs (among other things) Nov 06 15:56:53 At least.. presumably. So just because those services are started via init doesn't mean they continue running as root. Nov 06 15:56:53 No, it's getting executed by the "init" binary. Nov 06 15:57:01 jimp, I'm aware of what "init.rc" does. Nov 06 15:57:14 jimp, I'm saying that they run "service" which is a separate (android specific) binary. Nov 06 15:57:17 pawalls: there is a root shell running with uid 0 Nov 06 15:57:23 and no children Nov 06 15:57:39 pawalls: Check the source. The console command is not run through service or anything else. Nov 06 15:57:51 (er, duh, root shell == uid 0 from the redundancy department of redundancy" but anyway..) root 26 1 724 208 c0049a2c afe0c4cc S /system/bin/sh Nov 06 15:57:55 Disconnect, I see that. Nov 06 15:58:03 26 0 724 S /system/bin/sh Nov 06 15:58:04 27 1000 796 S /system/bin/servicemanager Nov 06 15:58:05 I'm simply saying that because something is run by init doesn't mean it continues to run as init. Nov 06 15:58:10 Clearly this shell was started before the service manager Nov 06 15:58:36 Also.. a process can fork() and exec() to reparent the process to init. Nov 06 15:58:47 I should just stop arguing and find a channel with people willing to check the source. Nov 06 15:59:10 pawalls: Here's the proof. Nov 06 15:59:15 Load up your phone, get a shell. Nov 06 15:59:22 Look at process list, notice /system/bin/sh running with UID=0. Nov 06 15:59:29 some people think it is more fun to read objdump output than to use git to check out the source :-) Nov 06 15:59:31 Now check /proc/26/fd and notice how its stdin is mapped to /dev/console. Nov 06 15:59:43 Then use a root shell to verify that "cat /dev/console" shows all keyboard input. Nov 06 15:59:46 Viola, I win. Nov 06 16:00:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola Nov 06 16:00:43 haha Nov 06 16:00:48 jimp, And what leads you to believe that the telnetd "exploit" has anything to do w/ that running sh binary? Nov 06 16:01:07 pawalls: Damn, everyone's a critic today. Think about it. Any time you type any command, it gets executed as root by this shell. Nov 06 16:01:08 jimp: (you actually meant "voila") Nov 06 16:01:12 jbq: clearly :) Nov 06 16:01:32 pawalls: It should be obvious that "pterminal" should not have access to even listen to a socket, let alone spawn a root sh. Nov 06 16:04:41 s/socket/reserved socket/ but yah. something there is weird. easy test though - does it work w/o pterminal or term? (can you just reboot, type it in and then connect or use pterminal to run ps.) Nov 06 16:04:58 * Disconnect is more interested in hacking a working dropbear server right now Nov 06 16:05:06 Disconnect: No, s/socket/socket/. Dammit, fuck, read the fucking kernel source and the Android-specific additions that prevent sockets from being opened without AID_INET capability. Nov 06 16:05:59 so you're saying they gave that capability to "sh"? Nov 06 16:06:15 No, they gave that capability to uid==0 or gid==AID_INET Nov 06 16:06:19 And clearly, a root shell has uid==0. Nov 06 16:07:15 jimp> I'm still confused about why telnetd would be executed by this running root sh when started from pTerminal, though Nov 06 16:07:54 Chainfire: It's not related to pterminal. The running root sh picks up everything you type, so it just happens to pick up the same command (if you type it right) Nov 06 16:08:50 five points for gryffindor Nov 06 16:08:51 Chainfire: That's why typing "/system/bin/telnetd" doesn't actually work -- the root terminal sees ".system.bin.telnetd" (no Alt mapping) so it fails to run it Nov 06 16:09:29 so you can actually run any command as root without starting telnetd if you 'phrase' it correctly? Nov 06 16:09:29 Chainfire: hence SplasPood's slightly incorrect conclusion that he needed to type "cd /system/bin" and "telnetd" as two separate commands Nov 06 16:10:07 yeah! you're just a little limited by the lack of slash, so you can't (for example) just type "sh /sdcard/myscript" and have it execute Nov 06 16:11:07 that is nifty Nov 06 16:11:27 though they'll prolly fix it :( Nov 06 16:12:03 Sure, but it's too late now, now that I have root access I won't let them patch my phone without inserting my own backdoor first. Nov 06 16:12:30 i give eup i cant get my sms alert app working right Nov 06 16:12:31 sigh Nov 06 16:13:06 jimp> yeah but it'll suck for people who get a new device with a new update :D Nov 06 16:13:11 I'll give up.. can't change the color of dividers in a plain simple ListView Nov 06 16:13:15 ffs...now it's complaining about finding java 2 runtime enviroment Nov 06 16:13:18 Chainfire: Sure Nov 06 16:13:38 so now... how do we fix it up to support the / ? Nov 06 16:13:44 Ez-DvD: I think the developers recommend Debian, not gentoo Nov 06 16:13:57 Tauno: how did you try to change it? Nov 06 16:14:41 marcone, sorry to disturb but but how can I change the divider color in ListView? setting android:divider= to something removes the divider completely Nov 06 16:14:42 ubuntu, and i'm on slackware Nov 06 16:14:46 thx for all the info, btw, jimp :) Nov 06 16:14:50 * Ez-DvD gives up and installs ubuntu Nov 06 16:14:58 quad boot for the win! Nov 06 16:15:17 android:divider="#FF00FF00" for example.. Nov 06 16:15:46 the divider is a drawable. I don't know if simply putting a color should work Nov 06 16:15:57 yes, colors are drawables in the XML Nov 06 16:16:23 but not in some styles iirc Nov 06 16:16:37 android:divider - Drawable or color to draw between list items. May be a reference to another resource, in the form "@[+][package:]type:name" or to a theme attribute in the form "?[package:][type:]name". May be a color value, in the form of "#rgb", "#argb", "#rrggbb", or "#aarrggbb". Nov 06 16:17:31 "May be a color value" <-- I understand that I can just use a color value there.. "#xxx".. Nov 06 16:17:44 did you try setting it in code? (ListView.setDivider) Nov 06 16:17:50 will try Nov 06 16:18:22 whats up people Nov 06 16:18:28 now logged on the web i see Nov 06 16:18:47 anything i say or do can be used against me in the robot law Nov 06 16:24:55 btw android:divider="@drawable/solid_blue" and ... #0000ff is not wokring also Nov 06 16:26:28 setting it from code is also not working (((ListView)findViewById(R.id.listView)).setDivider(getResources().getDrawable(R.drawable.solid_blue));) Nov 06 16:28:20 there has to be some simple thing that I miss.. Nov 06 16:28:42 setting the divider height (((ListView)findViewById(R.id.listView)).setDividerHeight(20);) is also not helping Nov 06 16:29:44 you need to do both Nov 06 16:29:50 set the divider's drawable and set its height Nov 06 16:30:26 weird. When I set the divider to a red drawable, and set the divider height to 2, I get a listview with a completely red background. Nov 06 16:30:56 romainguy_ I do.. 1st line sets height, 2nd one sets drawable Nov 06 16:31:08 the other way around Nov 06 16:31:17 it .. matters? :) Nov 06 16:31:21 yes it does Nov 06 16:31:50 Android is a linux-distribution, I haven't really understood what it is... Nov 06 16:31:51 ? Nov 06 16:32:13 it worked.. kinda.. all the listview is blue now.. but it's 20px if i scroll it and then returns to all-blue Nov 06 16:32:46 let me see if I can get it working from xml too.. Nov 06 16:34:04 nope.. android:divider="@drawable/solid_blue" android:dividerHeight="20px" is not working.. Nov 06 16:34:52 Is there any compilers for C or C++ to android? Nov 06 16:35:01 no Nov 06 16:35:11 So Java it is than? Nov 06 16:35:24 yesh Nov 06 16:35:34 supposedly JNI works but you'd have to have a java shim to load your native code Nov 06 16:35:37 Alright, cool, I can live with that Nov 06 16:35:41 romainguy_ the order of color/height calls should be documented I guess... otherwise there will be more guys like me with tears in their eyes because they just spent 1 hour figuring the right order :) Nov 06 16:35:41 anyone knows a RemoteDesktop-Host sowtware ? Nov 06 16:35:50 but jni isn't supported and may break in upgrades Nov 06 16:35:58 LordMetroid, http://mantrid.wordpress.com/2008/04/28/do-android-dream-of-something-more-than-java/ Nov 06 16:36:19 ..and I still can't get it working from XML :/ Nov 06 16:36:47 joakime: good link thx Nov 06 16:37:21 wastrel, it's a bit dated, but still relevant to the question. Nov 06 16:37:33 Is there any figures on how many android phones that has been sold? Nov 06 16:37:42 Yes. Nov 06 16:37:44 yes Nov 06 16:37:47 we have sold at least 1 phone Nov 06 16:37:54 san bought it Nov 06 16:37:58 last number I saw was 2.5M Nov 06 16:38:19 damn Nov 06 16:38:19 has anyone found an easy GUI tool for creating layouts for a GUI windows. is any thing for eclipse IDE. Nov 06 16:38:35 wastrel, i found that link on the one about JNI (from 2007!!) - http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/android-invoke-jni-based-methods-bridging-cc-and-java/ Nov 06 16:39:51 I don't think 2.5M is correct - I thought I saw T-mobile was expected to sell 600k by the end of 2008 Nov 06 16:39:56 i cried when i discovered how hard it is to make the UI seriously inconsistent Nov 06 16:40:00 WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS TO ME Nov 06 16:40:16 Yeah, didn't they learn a thing from swing's PLAF? Nov 06 16:40:46 As in: nobody uses the PLAF? Nov 06 16:40:51 :) Nov 06 16:41:00 Yeah, pretty much :) Nov 06 16:41:56 has anybody worked on making changes to the root filesystem on the phone and having them preserved on reboot? Nov 06 16:42:19 DannyB yeah, it's damn hard if you HAVE to do it but you can't just figure out how.. Nov 06 16:42:23 Alright, not as many units on the market as the iPhone yet... But will it be possible to make money off android software even though? Nov 06 16:42:35 why do you *have* to do it? Nov 06 16:42:46 I'm only a code monkey ;) Nov 06 16:42:57 sjschultze: site seems down right now, but I think http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442831 had some info on it Nov 06 16:43:12 does anyone know if the USB interface can be used on the HTC G1, if so can someone give the url for source code. Nov 06 16:43:44 sgrabham: used by what, for what? Nov 06 16:43:50 did it involve editing a ramdisk stored somewhere in special memory or something along those lines? It seems like the root fs is being overwritten from an undisclosed location upon boot. Nov 06 16:44:08 sgrabham: certainly it can be used as mass storage pretty easily, that's a built-in feature. as well as the adb stuff. Nov 06 16:44:21 sjschultze: root is wiped during reboot. /system and /data are better. Nov 06 16:44:23 sjschultze: Yeah, / itself should be an initramfs in the kernel image. Nov 06 16:44:41 would like to use like a RS232 with hyperterm type of data input Nov 06 16:44:52 Disconnect: right, but you have to change / if you want to change certain things like init.rc Nov 06 16:45:11 Bluetooth Serial? Nov 06 16:45:12 sgrabham: Hook a USB->serial gadget up to the G1? I'm not sure that's possible, does G1 have OTG? Nov 06 16:45:19 Bluetooth serial is a good idea. Nov 06 16:45:24 yah :( the image is available tho iirc Nov 06 16:45:48 DannyB, there's not much room for me to say "hey, the app is all-green/yellow but I really can't change the divider color to match the overall design of the app.. and by the way the overall design is seriously inconsistent.." Nov 06 16:45:56 Disconnect: available, like you can somehow access it on the device? Nov 06 16:46:01 i believe so Nov 06 16:46:11 hm, well that would be cool Nov 06 16:46:13 I don't have a G1 yet so unsure, still using the SDK app Nov 06 16:46:38 sjschultze: The initramfs is typically just a gzipped cpio archive tacked onto the end of the kernel. Nov 06 16:46:48 You could pull the kernel out of flash, change that image, and flash it back. Nov 06 16:47:10 ah, I haven't accessed flash at all, do tools exist? Nov 06 16:47:26 Sure, cat /dev/mtdblock1 :) Nov 06 16:47:51 heh Nov 06 16:47:53 The post at xda-developers gives useful info, too bad the site's down at the moment Nov 06 16:48:18 so does anyone have mtdtools compiled against bionic? Nov 06 16:48:31 Basically you can zero out a partition then use /system/bin/flash_image to write to it. Nov 06 16:48:56 "cat /proc/mtd" to get partition names Nov 06 16:49:01 jimp: there was a statement from google at one point that the bootloader checked kernel sig when booting (although that could be misinformation of course) .. anyone actually tried flashing a non-htc kernel yet? Nov 06 16:49:34 Then, "cat /dev/zero > /dev/mtd2 ; flash_image boot mykernel.img" might do the trick Nov 06 16:49:54 Disconnect: I think that guy at the link successfully changed his recovery kernel Nov 06 16:50:00 cool Nov 06 16:51:57 oh and nail in the coffin for the "its not pid 26" people: look at the ppid of telnetd. (oops, its 26) (and yes, i just tried from the dialer successfully. cd systemcd bintelnetd worked) Nov 06 16:52:59 so there are two huge wtf's here.. first is wtf did they ship telnetd to begin with.. should have caught it in the rootfs audit. second is wtf did they allow it to run a root console? should have caught it in the process audit. both of which should have happened a long time before it went gold.. Nov 06 16:52:59 hey im looking at this guitar tuner source Nov 06 16:53:08 what do i do if theres stuff that isnt in the android library Nov 06 16:53:10 jimp: Nice work. Nov 06 16:53:16 jimp: One whopper of a bug here. Nov 06 16:53:36 cworth: thanks, yeah, I'm still laughing about it Nov 06 16:53:42 Is there a writeup for how that works? I'm still not clear on how telnetd gets its privilege elevation. (And to be fair, this still doesn't work for me, although I didn't spend any time on it last night) Nov 06 16:53:53 d0nets: port it Nov 06 16:54:02 like in "MicrophoneAudioSource.java" , it has a bunch of "import.javax.sound.*'s Nov 06 16:54:05 andyross: I figured it out before you joined Nov 06 16:54:06 andyross: http://android.jim.sh/index.php/ConsoleShell Nov 06 16:54:14 like javax.sound.samplesd.AudoFormat; Nov 06 16:54:29 andyross: i sum up. init spawns pid 26 /system/bin/sh as root. it listens to console (so it reads kb input but not alt/shift/etc). Nov 06 16:54:34 " ".AudioInputStream; Nov 06 16:54:44 " ". AudioSystem; Nov 06 16:55:28 andyross: so when you type "/system/bin/telnetd" it reads ".system.bin.telnetd" and nothing happens. but "cd system" "cd bin" "telnetd" all work. so even though the one int he terminal exits (its not forking, its exiting, no priv elevation) the one @ pid26 runs it. Nov 06 16:55:55 andyross: No real escalation at all. It's just getting launched by a root shell, (not by pterminal). Nov 06 16:55:57 do it without terminal, too. try "cd .." a few times, then "cd system" "cd bin" "telnetd" from (eg) dialer. or a notepad app. Nov 06 16:56:04 Oh, wait wait. You type it on the *phone* keyboard. I'd completely misunderstood this and was trying it from an adb shell Nov 06 16:56:12 andyross: Yep Nov 06 16:56:26 andyross: Right. Will never work from the adb shell. Nov 06 16:56:38 (Which does explain how some people couldn't get the telnet thing to work.) Nov 06 16:56:51 Also, for what it's worth, it's not possible for a rogue Android app to root your phone automatically (which was one of my concerns) Nov 06 16:57:05 Yeah. I heard "just run /system/bin/telnetd" and figured I'd run it the only way I knew how. Nov 06 16:57:05 jimp: Yeah. This is ideal, really. Nov 06 16:57:21 A way for people with physical access to get root, but nobody else. Nov 06 16:57:32 Which, frankly, is exactly what we want anyway. Nov 06 16:57:37 (Barring social-engineering hacks to get people to type in funny things on the keyboard...) Nov 06 16:57:52 heh Nov 06 16:57:53 And of course now I'm not on a wifi network so I can't test. Does telnetd listen on 127.0.0.1 by any chance? Nov 06 16:58:00 a typing tutor game Nov 06 16:58:35 andyross: I heard someone say it does, but I haven't tested. Nov 06 16:58:39 andryross - INADDR_ANY i presume Nov 06 16:58:52 wastrel: Ooh. You're evil. Think of the children learning to type! ;-) Nov 06 16:58:54 There's an adb port forward, isn't there? Nov 06 16:59:04 yes tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:23 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN Nov 06 16:59:22 sigh Nov 06 16:59:26 andyross: although you don't need telnetd. Make a shell script somewhere, then just type "cd .." "cd .." "cd data" "cd local" "sh script" Nov 06 16:59:39 should work if all those keypresses make it to /dev/console cleanly Nov 06 16:59:46 yah Nov 06 16:59:57 explains reboot, too. you were prolly in /system/bin already. Nov 06 17:00:31 I imagine someone is already busy cross-compiling 'su' and dropping it (setuid 0) onto the system image. Having telnet running on an open network isn't exactly what I'd call "ideal". :-) Nov 06 17:00:59 i'm working the other way - hacking the auth bits out of dropbear Nov 06 17:01:00 bingo: "adb forward tcp:9988 tcp:23", "telnet localhost 9988" Nov 06 17:01:06 I'm in :) Nov 06 17:02:50 cool Nov 06 17:03:19 jimp: So has anyone documented the simplest way to ensure root access doesn't magically disappear some day? Nov 06 17:03:37 Say, like just disabling the auto-update or so. Nov 06 17:03:46 cworth: move otakeys.zip out of /etc/security Nov 06 17:03:51 and don't do manual flashing Nov 06 17:03:53 Hard to ensure without a reflash of the boot loader. For a start, how about a setuid shell binary somewhere in /data Nov 06 17:03:54 pawalls: busybox has sh Nov 06 17:04:05 there might be another backdoor somewhere but thats the easy ones Nov 06 17:04:19 andyross: /data is mounted nosuid Nov 06 17:04:27 Ah, that's harder then :) Nov 06 17:04:41 anyone have an opinion on the "Anti-Virus" application that was announced? Nov 06 17:05:13 disconnect Nov 06 17:05:18 they are saying no java sound api Nov 06 17:05:24 trigatch4: lol Nov 06 17:05:26 d0nets: i'm not writing your app for you, go away. Nov 06 17:05:41 im not asking you to Nov 06 17:05:48 trigatch4: ask them what viruses they protect you from... Nov 06 17:05:53 pwalls: also http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=20&t=158&rb_v=viewtopic Nov 06 17:05:56 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=60#makechanges Nov 06 17:07:03 sweet Nov 06 17:07:20 anyway, i'm heading out, later guys Nov 06 17:07:28 Does anyone know if you can embed GPS info in pictures taken using the Camera API ? Nov 06 17:07:58 fwiw, the shipping camera app does just that, i'm pretty sure Nov 06 17:08:42 yea I noticed that Nov 06 17:08:49 raidfive: it can i believe, but it doesn't seem to have as much success as i'd like (nokia betalabs had an app to do that that spoiled me - better about remembering locations, lit up for a gps fix as soon as you open the camera, etc) Nov 06 17:08:50 that is why I am asking about the API Nov 06 17:08:56 * danfuzz recommends you refer to the source Nov 06 17:10:19 two possible outcomes: (a) you will discover it uses something in the public API, in which case you can just use it. (b) you will discover that it uses non-public API in which case you would be advised to file a bug to get it finalized for public consumption Nov 06 17:10:28 win goto 2 Nov 06 17:11:49 I figured out why I couldn't get any internet access. tmob forgot to put the data plan on my phone Nov 06 17:11:55 oops Nov 06 17:12:10 streeter: were you able to get gmail/calendar? Nov 06 17:12:11 * danfuzz didn't leave the store until he verified data was working Nov 06 17:12:15 wow so *thats* why it runs as root Nov 06 17:12:16 lolz! Nov 06 17:12:57 1. "boot phone" 2. open keyboard 3. type "telnetd" Nov 06 17:13:09 wastrel: I'm not sure. I think that was only working when I was WiFi connected Nov 06 17:13:09 That really is the funniest thing. Nov 06 17:13:38 And much easier than installing pterminal, etc. Nov 06 17:14:04 danfuzz: ordered mine online. they don't show up in the stores here til the 15th (that's when we're supposed to get 3G) Nov 06 17:14:15 ah righto Nov 06 17:14:31 yea Nov 06 17:14:33 this is a riot Nov 06 17:14:47 So who's crawled around the root environment so far? Is the /system device reflashable, for example? There are device files for two flash partitions that aren't mounted. What's in them? Are they reflashable? etc... I have more questions than I have time to investigate myself. Nov 06 17:14:50 Can I browse the source code online or do I have to download it? Nov 06 17:14:55 andyross - yes, it is Nov 06 17:15:24 browse source: Nov 06 17:15:31 andyross> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442831 Nov 06 17:15:35 andyross: There's a forum post with flashing instructions and a brief mention of each partition. That should get put into the wiki. Nov 06 17:15:39 thanks danfuzz Nov 06 17:15:40 documents the flashing... Nov 06 17:15:44 but xda is down right now. Nov 06 17:15:52 though it's so easy to download that i'd recommend going that route Nov 06 17:15:55 Which explains why that link you posted doesn't work :) Nov 06 17:16:06 then you can use all your happy local tools. (grep is my friend) Nov 06 17:16:16 jasta: you around? Nov 06 17:16:21 yes Nov 06 17:16:28 k gonna MSG you Nov 06 17:17:15 andyross> xda is not normally down for more than an hour when it goes down... so just save the link somewhere and try later :) Nov 06 17:18:09 hello world. anyone tried running a LAMP stack on the G1? Nov 06 17:18:10 Chainfire - there is a caveat emptor about the dumping of the partitions via mtd - we need to made damn sure that it dumps everything you'd need to recover it... and if you are trying to recover that it actually works... (i.e. no problems if there are bad blocks that don't line up... etc) Nov 06 17:18:36 I wont run MySQL on my phone any time soon Nov 06 17:18:45 chx: you should do it, it'll rock. first you have to port apache to java. then you have to port over php. and finally, you need to port mysql.. Nov 06 17:19:15 chx> waiting for your download :D Nov 06 17:19:15 Did anybody build an hello-world using prebuilt toolchain successfully? Got some issue with the PATH setting:http://fpaste.org/paste/8625 Nov 06 17:19:35 uh oh Nov 06 17:19:37 RyeBrye true that... but give it a bit of time... :) Nov 06 17:19:50 Right Nov 06 17:20:22 Anyone know how to dump the ram out of the pmem /dev devices? dd if=/dev/pmem of=/sdcard/dump fails... Nov 06 17:22:23 joelone: printf hello, world? Yes. Nov 06 17:22:31 * mikez5 wonders who will be first to brick their phone Nov 06 17:22:49 joelone: I put notes on that here: Nov 06 17:22:52 http://android.jim.sh/index.php/Cross_Compilation Nov 06 17:23:00 joelone: it's much more complicated than that. The prebuilt tools don't integrate with bionic, you need to specify a ton of custom include and linker options to make them work. There's a wrapper script I wrote at http://plausible.org/andy/agcc which works for me. Not terribly easy though. Nov 06 17:23:04 (Thanks to anyross for the agcc script that does the hard stuff.) Nov 06 17:23:11 Thanks cworth. Nov 06 17:23:16 andyross even Nov 06 17:23:20 Oh, heh. Apparently it's already linked :) Never mind. Nov 06 17:23:29 andyross: We try! ;-) Nov 06 17:23:30 thx andross 2 ;/ Nov 06 17:24:37 Note that this is a hack: the right solution is to build a toolchain for a new "arm-eabi-bionic" target that understands all of this stuff. No doubt that's on google's plate for the upcoming native SDK... Nov 06 17:25:37 And I didn't spend much time figuring out what's important. Lots of those options are probably chaff (like special warning flags -- if they don't complain for the bionic headers, they can be dropped). Nov 06 17:26:22 Yes, try to build a NDK before, but the hello-world compiled with my NDK didn't work on emulator. Nov 06 17:26:55 So I try to compile it with prebuilt one Nov 06 17:27:21 That's because the C library for Android isn't glibc, or even uclibc. It doesn't even use the standard ld-linux runtime linker. Nov 06 17:28:18 * cworth rewrites that wiki page for a bit more clarity Nov 06 17:28:36 andyross: Feel free to add your ideas for an arm-eabi-bionic target there Nov 06 17:28:45 In the prebuilt toolchain folder, it said The objects in this prebuilt directory can be rebuilt using the source archive android-toolchain-20081019.tar.bz2 Nov 06 17:28:52 The objects in this prebuilt directory can be rebuilt Nov 06 17:28:52 using the source archive Nov 06 17:28:52 android-toolchain-20081019.tar.bz2 Nov 06 17:29:10 hosted at Nov 06 17:30:16 so who wants to hire me? Nov 06 17:30:31 what is the key combo to reboot Nov 06 17:30:34 If we don't have the toolchain with bionic libc, how can we write JNI? Nov 06 17:30:46 bloo: depends. What do you do? Nov 06 17:30:46 You can't Nov 06 17:30:54 Does JNI work without bionic libc? Nov 06 17:30:57 engineer software! Nov 06 17:30:58 No Nov 06 17:31:46 me too! Nov 06 17:31:55 what a coincidence! Nov 06 17:32:05 So much in common. Nov 06 17:33:16 Amazing! Nov 06 17:37:21 I engineer new planets. Nov 06 17:37:53 Anyone have a terraforming project they want to hire me for? Nov 06 17:38:12 no, but you can tile my living room floor for me Nov 06 17:38:30 close enough Nov 06 17:38:42 come to think of it, my front yard could use some terraforming Nov 06 17:38:47 * cworth backs up each flash partition, sets otacerts.zip aside, and goes out for the day Nov 06 17:38:50 Thanks all. Nov 06 17:39:11 joelone: look at the mandelbrot zoomer app, it uses jni and works on the device Nov 06 17:39:18 marcone: If we place a volcano in the back, we can save energy since you won't need to mow the lawn or clean the house. Nov 06 17:43:00 i cant figure out how the api demo for a non full screen activity works Nov 06 17:43:01 kRutOn: I'd appreciate it if you could put the volcano in my neighbor's yard. As close to their house as possible. Nov 06 17:43:38 * SanMehat is glad he doesnt live near marcone Nov 06 17:44:05 bloo: what do you mean? Nov 06 17:44:45 like i dont see whats making it not full screen Nov 06 17:45:06 the layout is one textview Nov 06 17:45:28 setContentView(R.layout.custom_dialog_activity); Nov 06 17:45:28 thats the only import thing in the actual activity Nov 06 17:45:47 but somehow its a default theme and not fullscreen Nov 06 17:45:59 #ubuntu Nov 06 17:46:39 ok got my phone replaced Nov 06 17:46:44 screen was definitely dead Nov 06 17:47:02 cool Nov 06 17:47:15 how long is the warranty on the G1's, a year? Nov 06 17:47:46 i guess, i was still within t-mobile's 14-day "buyer's remorse" window Nov 06 17:47:48 bloo: it's because the Activity's theme is set to look like a dialog. That makes it not fullscreen. Look in the AndroidManifest.xml for android:theme="@style/Theme.CustomDialog" Nov 06 17:47:50 so they just did an exchange Nov 06 17:47:56 bloo: I'm not an expert on the UI-level stuff, but fullscreenness is a property of the window object, not the activity or view. Nov 06 17:48:21 actually, it *is* a property of the Activity in this case Nov 06 17:48:43 thoraxe: hmm. Nov 06 17:49:00 oh marcone thanks you are a genius Nov 06 17:49:17 No, I mean in code. The Activity contains a Window, which has flags that control size. I'm sure there's a way to do it in the resource XML, I'm just talking about where I'd start looking if I had to answer the question. Nov 06 17:54:02 yay! most of the way to working dropbear. connections work, auth works. just gotta clean up the session creation. Nov 06 17:54:07 exit after auth (root): couldn't change user as non-root Nov 06 17:55:28 someone wants my sms screen alert to have the option to stay on indefinately Nov 06 17:56:35 i dont understand the reasoning behind it Nov 06 17:56:38 thats not a terrible idea if it also beeps/notifies periodically Nov 06 17:56:54 bloo: its 3am, your pager just went off. you wake up and the screen is off so you go back to sleep... Nov 06 17:57:05 indefinately means goodbye battery Nov 06 17:57:16 indefinitely if plugged in? Nov 06 17:57:17 you can set it to 99 seconds awake though Nov 06 17:57:29 maybe if plugged in is a good idea Nov 06 17:57:32 rye, thanks! Nov 06 17:59:14 i thought there was an option to do that though in settings, maybe just flick that on or off? Nov 06 17:59:34 wooooohooo working ssh! Nov 06 17:59:35 is there anyway on a G1 to get a serial console from the bootloader? Nov 06 17:59:47 Disconnect: nice, tunnel time Nov 06 17:59:49 passwd is hardcoded and it drops you to uid2000 (but thats what suid shell is for..) Nov 06 18:00:13 dgilmore: yes with a special cable. But it is probably disabled in the production bootloader. Nov 06 18:00:49 so can someone help me with this one... feeling stupid but can't figure out what I'm doing wrong: Nov 06 18:00:51 # busybox mount /dev/block/mtdblock1 /system/flashmount Nov 06 18:00:51 mount: mounting /dev/block/mtdblock1 on /system/flashmount failed: Invalid argument Nov 06 18:00:51 mikez5: :( ok. mine is dead. Nov 06 18:01:13 i was hoping to see if i could get some debug info before it goes back Nov 06 18:01:22 $25 to get on the android market... yeewww Nov 06 18:01:33 LordMetroid: how so? Nov 06 18:01:33 Does it costs to get on to the iPhone market as well? Nov 06 18:01:45 It costs your soul, from what I remember Nov 06 18:01:52 oh, do you mean to get your application onto? Nov 06 18:01:53 sjschultze: fs type? Nov 06 18:01:57 I see, than $25 don't seem so bad all of a sudden Nov 06 18:02:11 sjschultze: if you have busybox installed run 'dmesg' Nov 06 18:02:12 I hear Windows Mobile takes your first born child. Nov 06 18:02:20 Yeah. The soul thing is burried under page 103,387,989 of the NDA Apple has to develop on the iPhone Nov 06 18:02:46 To be fair: the iPhone mess has apparently cleaned up a lot in the wake of the G1 release. Competition is a good thing. Nov 06 18:02:53 dgilmore: did it die from natural causes, or doing fun stuff as root? Nov 06 18:03:05 Disconnect: there's a dmesg on the phone already, no need for busybox for that Nov 06 18:03:19 [ 4682.710289] msm_nand_read_oob: unsupported ops->len, 512 Nov 06 18:03:19 [ 4682.710900] end_request: I/O error, dev mtdblock1, sector 0 Nov 06 18:03:19 [ 4682.713606] FAT: unable to read boot sector Nov 06 18:03:19 [ 4682.715223] yaffs: dev is 32505857 name is "mtdblock1" Nov 06 18:03:20 [ 4682.715773] yaffs: passed flags "" Nov 06 18:03:20 [ 4682.716597] yaffs: Attempting MTD mount on 31.1, "mtdblock1" Nov 06 18:03:21 [ 4682.717115] yaffs: auto selecting yaffs2 Nov 06 18:03:23 [ 4682.742507] yaffs: dev is 32505857 name is "mtdblock1" Nov 06 18:03:25 [ 4682.742507] yaffs: passed flags "" Nov 06 18:03:27 [ 4682.742507] yaffs: Attempting MTD mount on 31.1, "mtdblock1" Nov 06 18:03:29 sorry for the flood Nov 06 18:03:32 sjschultze: no no no no nono no no nono no Nov 06 18:03:35 www.pastebin.ca Nov 06 18:03:45 check Nov 06 18:03:55 and mtdblock1 might not be a fat or yaffs partition Nov 06 18:03:59 mikez5: it died while i was viewing a photo id taken Nov 06 18:04:30 Hmm, maybe one should develop some software for Android... Nov 06 18:04:31 mikez5: right after that the home app locked up. Nov 06 18:04:33 anyone interested in a quick launcher like quicksilver on the pc/osx Nov 06 18:04:47 The "unsupported ops->len, 512" error kinda sounds to me like a driver configuration issue. Trying a hard drive block size on a flash device maybe doesn't work? Is there a mount option that specifies block size? Nov 06 18:04:56 mikez5: then on reboot home locked up. now i get just the backlight on Nov 06 18:05:06 mikez5: im guessing the nand failed Nov 06 18:05:36 so, speaking of all of this fun terminal business Nov 06 18:05:51 LordMetroid++ Nov 06 18:05:53 all I have is pterminal, is there a better option without being a developer Nov 06 18:06:03 yes, Term.apk Nov 06 18:06:26 ok. where can I get it? Nov 06 18:06:33 http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?p=431&rb_v=viewtopic#p431 Nov 06 18:06:41 * dgilmore wants to be able to run the phone as a wifi ap. and share out the net connection with the laptop Nov 06 18:06:43 enable unknown apps, drag and drop it anywhere special? Nov 06 18:06:54 Disconnect: ssh working ? Nov 06 18:06:58 yep Nov 06 18:06:59 nope, it should just work Nov 06 18:07:16 *(reply to P2E) Nov 06 18:07:22 where do u blog ? Nov 06 18:07:27 i don't Nov 06 18:07:32 ok. but in terms of getting it onto the phone, just the root of the sdcard, or? Nov 06 18:07:50 Disconnect: mind sharing the steps ? Nov 06 18:07:53 you can go to the url on the phone, download the apk, and then click on it from the downloads and tell it to install Nov 06 18:08:00 Or just "adb install" Nov 06 18:08:02 but yes, probably save to root of sdcard first Nov 06 18:08:13 just had to hack auth to death. i'll post a bin later today prolly. Nov 06 18:08:40 so anyone have any other clues for filesystem types I should try for mounting mtdblock1? Nov 06 18:08:53 I'm using busybox mount... dunno what all it supports Nov 06 18:08:55 its probably a data area, or the kenrel. Nov 06 18:09:01 in fact, its almost certainly the kenrnel Nov 06 18:09:03 kernel Nov 06 18:09:22 and its not about what mount supports, its about what the kernel supports (cat /proc/filesystems) Nov 06 18:09:58 ah, so trying to mount that is like trying to mount lilo? Am I getting the analogy correct? Nov 06 18:11:24 close enough Nov 06 18:11:30 more like /boot/vmlinuz but sure Nov 06 18:11:34 right Nov 06 18:12:04 and we don't have a lilo-like tool for updating the partition, I'm assuming Nov 06 18:13:02 its not a partition. if you want an analogy to normal linux, its /boot/vmlinuz (a file) and /boot/init.rd (a file) smooshed together. the bootloader (mtdblock0 most likely) loads it and runs the kernel. Nov 06 18:13:11 heh Nov 06 18:13:29 I just tested my g1 bandwidth on wifi Nov 06 18:13:32 6mbit ;-) Nov 06 18:13:38 the bootloader isn't mtdblock0 - the bootloader config is in mtdblock0 but we can't see the bootloader Nov 06 18:13:49 it's in it's own little world Nov 06 18:14:13 FWIW, it's entirely possible that the first-stage bootloader runs on the baseband core. Nov 06 18:15:29 I see, so we could potentially flash mtdblock1 and when xda-developers comes back up maybe that thread will have the instructions Nov 06 18:15:57 except chances are at least decent that bootloader will look for signed kernel Nov 06 18:16:16 maybe Nov 06 18:16:28 I'd be happy to be able to have an unsigned initrd ;-) Nov 06 18:16:55 Although if we can reflash /system, all that needs to happen is (1) never accept an OTA update, (2) someone caches the update file and repacks a "with root" /system image, (3) the hacker public reflashes with that instead. Nov 06 18:17:29 that would be cool Nov 06 18:17:30 spikebike: yes, agreed Nov 06 18:17:37 So it might not be possible to recover a phone that's been updated to a fixed version, but features *in* those updates should still be accessible. At least as long as the update files continue to be unencrypted zips -- they could change that too, of course. Nov 06 18:17:49 ..maybe we shouldn't give them ideas? Nov 06 18:17:54 heh Nov 06 18:17:57 no matter how badly they need them. Nov 06 18:18:04 They're smart enough to figure that out on their own. Google, remember? :) Nov 06 18:18:12 well I don't think google wants to lock it down more than necessary, after all the source is open Nov 06 18:18:19 i've got a semi-private channel here and i'll set up an invite-only forum later if needed Nov 06 18:18:19 tmo on the other hand Nov 06 18:18:45 andyross: erm. they made 4 -huge- unforgivable security errors on this thing. lets not do their security consulting for them... Nov 06 18:18:47 denying update checks should be relatively eas Nov 06 18:19:21 Some very smart people have made "unforgivable" security errors. It just happens. All the time, in fact. Whole-system security is insanely hard. Nov 06 18:19:26 the kernel has iptables Nov 06 18:19:35 heh, yeah, not to mention they were kinda rushed Nov 06 18:19:42 My personal opinion is: 1) we don't want remote exploits that could be used by malicious apps or web sites, and 2) a lot of people bricking their phones and trying to return them at the TMo store. Nov 06 18:19:56 I agree Nov 06 18:19:58 ya Nov 06 18:20:01 If I brick my phone, I'd not return it Nov 06 18:20:03 "What files should we include?" "What daemons are running?" .. super core things that should have been done -months- before the release. probably even before any engineering devices went out to non-google employees.. Nov 06 18:20:08 I'd have my wife do it Nov 06 18:20:09 * RyeBrye jokes Nov 06 18:20:17 on the other hand a few risks to allow reflashing /system would be worth it Nov 06 18:20:19 "Does this security policy allow for basic use cases?" (such as backups) Nov 06 18:21:23 apps should support a backup_intent maybe Nov 06 18:21:33 and restore Nov 06 18:21:37 My wife would get annoyed pretty quick if I asked her to take my device back to T-Mo to get it fixed. :) Nov 06 18:21:38 Disconnect: the bug here was almost unavoidable. The system starts with a shell, and that shell reads from the console. Duh. Someone else wired up the console code, and figured that it should read from the keyboard. Again, duh. Those are no brainers in most circumstances -- it's actually hard to imagine a security audit that *would* catch this.l Nov 06 18:21:39 Isn't is already confirmed that the telnetd thing is not an exploit that can be exploited remotely? Nov 06 18:22:12 andyross: a simple list of what is running after boot should have caught that. "whats this shell doing running as root? it has no children." Nov 06 18:22:40 I'm back, thanks Disconnect Nov 06 18:22:46 It's not a bug, it's a feature! Nov 06 18:23:03 Isn't that shell the init process? Maybe not, I haven't checked. Nov 06 18:23:05 I like being able to type "reboot" while android is pulsing :) Nov 06 18:23:37 you like to play with your pulsing android Nov 06 18:23:43 oi Nov 06 18:24:05 But again: this exact problem (i.e. boot your linux box to single user mode) isn't considered a "security" flaw on desktop computers because no one looks at the person sitting at the console as a threat. That model changes in the mobile world, and this just slipped through. Nov 06 18:24:12 * Disconnect has done embedded-linux security audits before. The basics like that don't take any time at all and prevent a LOT of problems later. Nov 06 18:24:44 Most embedded devices have some kind of exploit on the first revision Nov 06 18:24:48 andyross: that shell is parented by init (regardless of how its started, although pid 27 or 26 means its probably started by init..) and has no children Nov 06 18:25:24 either way. i'm just suggesting that if you want to -keep- root on your devices, perhaps its not the best idea to be pointing out all the things google/tmob could do to close it out. Nov 06 18:25:26 this ACTION blah stuff is... BLAH Nov 06 18:25:57 Agreed. No more trying to prove you are smarter than google by saying how you would mess with us all Nov 06 18:26:07 well one could argue that reminding them again and again may eventually allow them to just do it out-of-the-box? Nov 06 18:26:10 Again, google engineers are plenty smart enough to figure this out on their own. Exploit engineering that relies on stupid upstream developers is fragile. :) Nov 06 18:26:31 True Nov 06 18:26:37 woohoo my dbclient works also Nov 06 18:26:46 I agree with andy here.. Nov 06 18:26:57 andyross: sure. but why help? Nov 06 18:27:10 dbclient is part of the normal android build - they just rename it "ssh" - but it sits in the external directory Nov 06 18:27:19 (not on the phone, but in the open source build) Nov 06 18:27:32 where's the phone build, btw? Nov 06 18:27:38 there are a bunch of simple ways to prevent this from happening (and even close off the hole thats there) but i'm not planning on giving them a roadmap. (at least not w/o an eng device to play with myself..) Nov 06 18:28:04 RyeBrye: yah but i was concerned that this one would be broken since i had to hack on dropbear to get sshd working. its not broken, so i'm happy. Nov 06 18:28:18 Disconnect - that's good Nov 06 18:30:11 * Disconnect should prolly see if public key auth can be used in any reasonable way. but first, lunch Nov 06 18:38:20 Godód evening Nov 06 18:38:22 Good Nov 06 18:38:24 :-) Nov 06 18:38:28 Could someone extend the email app with a possibility to use GnuPG for email encryption? :-) Nov 06 18:40:09 ok so i have a slight problem and it probably comes from a lack of knowledge about how activities work Nov 06 18:40:25 im doing startactivity, and i run the activity Nov 06 18:40:36 but now whenever i hit the keyboard shortcut to my software Nov 06 18:40:42 the activity i ran pops up Nov 06 18:40:51 instead of my program Nov 06 18:41:18 so guys, i'm trying to still understand some stuff about android Nov 06 18:41:55 for example, can i write a app that ties into the browser, and when you hold your finger on the page, it can bring up a Share menu (i.e. delicious, magnolia, reddit, etc) Nov 06 18:42:03 would that be an intent? Nov 06 18:43:45 what wifi chipset is used on the g1 Nov 06 18:45:27 ionstorm: http://androidcommunity.com/t-mobile-g1-gets-dissected-20081031/ Nov 06 18:45:35 doesn't say there, but the link might have more info Nov 06 18:45:41 Hi andyross, could take a look at this? http://fpaste.org/paste/8629 Nov 06 18:46:02 I got some error msg by using agcc Nov 06 18:48:00 is there an ipsec vpn client yet? :) Nov 06 18:48:17 Your input source file seems to be named "hello", not "hello.o" or "hello.c". Nov 06 18:48:34 Hmm, google only produced the OS and not the phone itself, how's that going to play out in the future, I fear the OS will not have as good levy as the iPhone has Nov 06 18:48:50 LordMetroid: how does Windows play out? Nov 06 18:48:55 thoraxe: i'll prolly do openvpn once i get a cross toolchain that talks to bionic instead of just building everything static Nov 06 18:49:00 thoraxe: ..poorly Nov 06 18:49:14 Disconnect: yes, but you're overlooking the point Nov 06 18:49:21 random non-development question, does anyone have any good leads on getting my vcards in from my other phone? Nov 06 18:49:22 the operating system is just the standard around which hardware can be produced Nov 06 18:49:38 linux, windows, macos (to some degree) -- they don't relaly have anything to do with the hardware Nov 06 18:49:47 that hasn't stopped awesome hardware from coming out Nov 06 18:49:49 thoraxe: Of course that OS is going strong but it is another kind of market, users decide on that and not the mobile phone producers Nov 06 18:50:02 damn that link has nothing about the g1 wifi chipset Nov 06 18:50:02 LordMetroid: and users don't decide on mobile phones now? Nov 06 18:50:13 Of course they do Nov 06 18:50:26 so what's your point? Nov 06 18:50:51 But from a user perspective the phone and OS is not seperate like it is in windows and the PC-system Nov 06 18:50:54 think about it this way -- android allows mobilephone manufacturers to concentrate on hardware development instead of hardware AND software development, so it saves them a ton of money Nov 06 18:51:14 LordMetroid: from the user perpective for 90+% of computer users the OS is not separate Nov 06 18:51:53 plus you don't need to write games and apps that target variations in the java vm for mobile Nov 06 18:51:56 ionstorm: It's a TI 1251. Check the source. Nov 06 18:52:04 you have one, standard, java platform that you can sell on Nov 06 18:52:23 digitalspaghetti: that is indeed a beneficial aspect of it all Nov 06 18:52:38 so the choice in device actually becomes the primary focus for a customer Nov 06 18:52:50 because it'll be the choice of asthetics and comfort Nov 06 18:54:07 for me it was a simple choice - I am not a mac user, I am open source and use google applications to handle my main email - so the google OS swung me Nov 06 18:54:21 mmm Nov 06 18:54:48 the hardware i didn't care about so much, but having touch screen and gps are nice Nov 06 18:54:56 Do complex games have a market for mobile phone markets or is it mainly puzzleish games that sell? Nov 06 18:55:16 mainly puzzlish and rpgs Nov 06 18:55:17 but in the end, most customers won't care except if it can take photos and play music, as well as act as a phone Nov 06 18:55:18 i think Nov 06 18:55:40 LordMetroid: Nokia tried with the nGage - that didn't work out well for them Nov 06 18:55:52 anyway to disable home key or absorb it? Nov 06 18:56:00 nGage was a total flop Nov 06 18:56:01 bloo - toddler lock does Nov 06 18:56:10 but i think the power wasn't there - moore's law dictates that the g1 should probably be as good as the PSP now, though Nov 06 18:56:13 bloo - toddler lock disables everything but the power key, so there has to be a way Nov 06 18:56:28 ooooo that sounds awesome Nov 06 18:57:13 how to figure it out though ,.... Nov 06 18:57:26 The nGage was Series 60. 'nuff said. Nov 06 18:57:50 no special permissions modify global settings, change wifi, prevent phone from sleeping, Nov 06 18:58:07 look at the iphone / ipod touch games though Nov 06 18:58:10 they are fairly advanced Nov 06 18:58:26 i think you will see more of a market for mobile device games as the power of mobile devices comes up Nov 06 18:58:40 android is also still very new, it will take time for people to exploit its features Nov 06 18:58:46 the first iphone games were probably crappy too Nov 06 18:58:51 Yeah, some games along those lines would be really nice for android. It's hardware 3D is comparable. Nov 06 18:58:52 so glad i didn't buy an openmoko in the end :) Nov 06 18:59:26 I have the OpenGL experience and a native build environment. But no art or game design skills. :( Nov 06 19:00:07 So how do one access the 3d? is JOGL available in Android's Java? Nov 06 19:00:11 i have the design skill, but no java experience (although I code Python & Actionscript 3 so I have an idea of whats goign on, just not where to start) Nov 06 19:00:39 digitalspaghetti: the problem is (reading back) that its going into walmart without the ability to take decent photos or play music :/ Nov 06 19:01:22 and fyi scripting isn't gonna help much learning java :( it won't hurt (much) but.. Nov 06 19:01:37 i'd like my first app to either utlilise the GPS + Fire Eagle or Brightkite in some way, or adding delicious sharing the browser - probably the first will be easier Nov 06 19:01:54 andyross, you caught me,thanks Nov 06 19:02:14 Disconnect: i have some c/c++ experience from back in the day, plus PHP, JavaScript and HaXe Nov 06 19:02:24 that'll help a lot more :) Nov 06 19:03:10 i've looked at the app source for some things and i can see what it's doing, it's just learning the syntax and semantics of java and getting time to do it in the context of learning android's API too Nov 06 19:03:15 LordMetroid: yes, check out the DemoApi's code. There is an OpenGL ES 1.0 core (an ATI Imageon, AFAICT) on the phone. Nov 06 19:03:26 digitalspaghetti: head first java is an awesome learning book Nov 06 19:03:45 i#ve got one java book... Nov 06 19:04:02 FWIW, if you're just coming up to speed as a developer, games and graphics programming are probably a poor place to start. Nov 06 19:04:25 Dietel & Dietel Java: How To Program, but i think it's a bit old Nov 06 19:05:01 yea, only covers java 2, 1.2 (about 1999) Nov 06 19:06:02 although it'll probably cover the basic's well enough (OO, control structures, etc) Nov 06 19:06:05 yah mine were that old also :) so get head first java, its really nice Nov 06 19:06:30 you'll find its not so useful. -lots- has changed. Nov 06 19:06:36 My Java fu was 7 years old, so I picked up a copy of Bloch's "Effective Java" to come up to speed on the new stuff. It didn't make me dislike the environment any less, but it's a good book, with dense (!) and insightful content. Recommended. Nov 06 19:06:41 (think wfw3.11 programming vs vista) Nov 06 19:06:45 heh Nov 06 19:06:45 O'Reilly one? Nov 06 19:07:30 head first uses the same modern teaching methods as 'dummies' and all that, only with actual content instead of entire chapters devoted to why power strips should not be plugged into themselves. Nov 06 19:07:32 you all using Eclipse as well? I see there is a plugin for IntelliJ, but I don't know if it's for 1.0 sdk Nov 06 19:07:34 it moves pretty fast Nov 06 19:08:15 * andyross wouldn't be caught dead using one of those I.D.E things all these young'uns are talking about. Nov 06 19:08:41 Disconnect: 2nd Edition (2005) ? Nov 06 19:08:47 yah Nov 06 19:08:56 andyross is oldskool command line ;) Nov 06 19:09:25 you code in Vi, don't you ;) Nov 06 19:09:36 pico Nov 06 19:09:39 Emacs. Although I've been known to switch hit on occasion. Nov 06 19:09:40 * fadden uses vi Nov 06 19:09:40 andyross: my ide is vim :) Nov 06 19:09:45 nano Nov 06 19:10:01 * fadden doesn't write Java apps though Nov 06 19:10:07 * Disconnect uses vi except for android-java-stuff (eclipse) Nov 06 19:10:27 as much as my work have seen the phone and love it, they won't let me take time at work to do anything :) Nov 06 19:10:30 :( Nov 06 19:10:38 Any statement of the form "I use this text editor except for ..." just fails to parse. What's the point of having an editor if it's not what you use to edit stuff? Nov 06 19:10:45 is there a way to make like an email receiver? Nov 06 19:10:50 like sms receiver but for email? Nov 06 19:10:58 andyross: using the right tool for the job Nov 06 19:11:02 andyross: welcome to the 1990s, we have enough memory to load more than one app at a time now. its amazing. Nov 06 19:11:14 bloo: well there is an email notification, so maybe? Nov 06 19:11:46 The point is more subtle though: learning new tools for old tasks makes all those tasks slower. I'm completely crippled in a CUA-style editor. Nov 06 19:11:50 * Disconnect uses xm for music except when he's listening to the radio (because xm is the wrong tool for the morning show i like) or the g1 (because xm is the wrong tool when i want to hear a particular album or artist) Nov 06 19:12:23 thats just an unwillingness to learn Nov 06 19:12:34 Flawed analogy: You don't use the UI of a music player constantly. If you had to train your ears for each player, you might be a little more assertive about your preferneces. Nov 06 19:13:12 maybe you don't but i do. less so with radio (since its basically task-specific) but both mp3 playback and xm radio are very interactive. and wildly different interfaces. Nov 06 19:13:56 it took less than a week (maybe 3 evenings - about a week i guess, but thats cuz i have a lot of otehr crap interfering) to get used to the core features of eclipse (jump to line, search/replace, etc) and get up to speed with coding Nov 06 19:14:03 rather, up to speed with editing Nov 06 19:14:27 Again: if those players *sounded* different, you might care. Everything about a different editor feels different to your fingers. If you're not bothered by that, it probably means that you are still using stuff like the arrow keys and haven't really internalized your editor choice. That's fine, but for those of us who *have*, there are huge advantages. Nov 06 19:14:37 The Eclipse debugger is also far more useful than the command-line equivalent (jdb). Nov 06 19:14:58 hahahaha wow. because you can't adapt everyone who can must not be as good as you? thats pretty funny. Nov 06 19:15:07 * danfuzz is a fan of jswat for the occasional debug session Nov 06 19:15:24 maybe some of us just stay more adaptable.. Nov 06 19:15:38 Disconnect: chill. When did I say you aren't as good as me? I said I use emacs and like it, and am much more productive there than I am with a CUA editor, and tried to explain why. Leave the flaming at the door please. Nov 06 19:16:22 "it probably means you are still using stuff like the arrow keys" .. that whole thing was an incredibly condescending and fairly hostile statement. Nov 06 19:16:30 so .. how about right there? Nov 06 19:16:45 Then I apologize. It certainly wasn't meant as incredibly condescending. Nov 06 19:16:51 anyone else having wifi issues since rc29? Nov 06 19:17:03 oyeoj: my wifi seems to have gotten a little better Nov 06 19:17:27 not a lot (it still -hates- one of the APs at home, and that 2-minute-disconnect-even-on-AC is ridiculous.. but its better.) Nov 06 19:17:38 huh Nov 06 19:17:44 i cant connect to ANY APs anymore Nov 06 19:18:06 when i select one it immediately drops it to the bottom of the list as "out of range" Nov 06 19:18:21 uninstall the tmobile hotspot finder and remove the AP it inserted Nov 06 19:18:40 ok. known issue? Nov 06 19:18:49 really crappy app Nov 06 19:19:15 i'd suspect its doing something non-kosher with that AP it inserts, because even with the app gone i still had that problem Nov 06 19:19:38 hey .. so how do i get repo to feed me a diff of changes without prettyprinting? I just want to have a standard patchfile i can edit.. Nov 06 19:20:09 (and i'm betting no.. but does anyone @ google want a patch to dropbear to allow root logins over ssh with a fixed passwd? ..didn't think so. :) ..) Nov 06 19:20:26 ah tmohs? is the tmobile hotspot one? Nov 06 19:20:33 ya Nov 06 19:20:51 I dunno if this is a bug or not - I ported my number to T-Mobile from my old provider, but when i go into status it shows my old number (although my new number is working) Nov 06 19:21:05 digitalspaghetti: reboot? Nov 06 19:21:08 the number isn't hard-coded on the SIM, right? Nov 06 19:21:16 the # is on the sim but its changable Nov 06 19:21:17 Disconnect: several times since then Nov 06 19:21:35 digitalspaghetti: you're probably just in the wierd 'inbetween' porting state Nov 06 19:21:36 christ. i am getting -really- -really- tired of the thing randomly unsilencing Nov 06 19:21:40 at work no less Nov 06 19:22:01 Disconnect: hitting the speaker buttons on the side unintentionally? Nov 06 19:22:03 Disconnect: do you have Locale/Locations installed? Nov 06 19:22:11 SanMehat: its sitting on the desk untouched Nov 06 19:22:23 haunted? Nov 06 19:22:24 digitalspaghetti: its set to mute @ work and then i toggled it off entirely and muted again Nov 06 19:22:26 yah :( Nov 06 19:22:54 only thing i'm doing is usb mount, remove/replug usb, test, repeat.. (test is via adb - no touching the device) and the mount/umount i've been doing w/o picking up the phone Nov 06 19:22:57 the problem with locale is in my office and house, i don't get a good enough GPS Nov 06 19:23:16 so at home it woudl switch off my Wifi and turn on GPS Nov 06 19:24:16 and today, my phone was bluetooth teathed to my PC, and my call got routed through my PC! Nov 06 19:24:16 Disconnect: still not working. thoughts? Nov 06 19:24:46 oyeoj: reboot Nov 06 19:24:56 digitalspaghetti: bluetooth tethered? Nov 06 19:25:20 yea, if you pair your pc and phone, you can set the PC to be a headset Nov 06 19:25:39 so your call comes through, and goes through the PC speaker/mic Nov 06 19:26:14 ah ok Nov 06 19:26:36 pairing no tethering and pc as headset/mic is a little different than call routing :) Nov 06 19:26:40 * Disconnect was confused Nov 06 19:27:16 still no Nov 06 19:27:17 :( Nov 06 19:27:29 dunno then Nov 06 19:27:38 wifi on these things is rather a mess Nov 06 19:27:56 is it worth trying a hard reset? Nov 06 19:28:46 hi how can I install a latest version of android platform on my htc g1 telephone? Nov 06 19:28:59 you can't Nov 06 19:29:30 orci: start by getting a large rock. it should preferably be dark in color but not covered in tar or anything. Nov 06 19:29:37 yah you can, but you shouldnt. thats nerdy. Nov 06 19:29:37 lemme know when you have that. Nov 06 19:29:46 you can? Nov 06 19:30:07 yah, i saw a manual process for it on some blog. Nov 06 19:30:19 but the updates should get pushed to you over the air automatically, so dont bother Nov 06 19:30:25 there are no good updates yet anyways Nov 06 19:30:44 osmosis: ..thats not the latest platform. thats the release that tmob is pushing OTA. different animal entirely. Nov 06 19:31:04 what is 'latest platform' then? like a alpha build ? Nov 06 19:31:07 osmosis oh umm Nov 06 19:31:16 you are talking about tmo's distribution not android Nov 06 19:31:18 osmosis, I see sound recorder in applications list but it has 0 size and is not in the launchers list what may be the problem? Nov 06 19:31:19 latest platform is what you get from 'repo sync' Nov 06 19:31:22 anyone play with keyguardlock? Nov 06 19:31:26 yes you can manually do update Nov 06 19:31:33 spikebike: i didnt realize there was anything other then tmobs Nov 06 19:31:36 orci, its not launchable Nov 06 19:31:51 bloo, why would that be? Nov 06 19:31:51 osmosis google has some 100 ish repos for android Nov 06 19:31:52 spikebike: should I flash over to the 'generic android' ?? Nov 06 19:31:59 you can't Nov 06 19:32:00 osmosis: ..how? Nov 06 19:32:08 bloo, any other sound recorder apps you might suggest? Nov 06 19:32:13 can I store apps on my sdcard? I ran out of space for apps on the interal memory. Nov 06 19:32:19 ringdroid is kinda good Nov 06 19:32:20 that's the issue, currently tmo's shipping a pretty closed phone Nov 06 19:32:24 w00t. connectBot + irssi FTW Nov 06 19:32:26 spikebike: 100 different versions??! Nov 06 19:32:29 bloo: ringdroid is slick Nov 06 19:32:30 bloo, oh does it do that? Nov 06 19:32:53 spikebike: whats the benefits ? Nov 06 19:33:50 where can I see the android platform version I am running? Nov 06 19:33:57 if there is such thing Nov 06 19:34:20 Menu > Settings > About phone Nov 06 19:34:27 osmosis, different devices/carriers/branding/manufacturers Nov 06 19:34:29 no 100 different repos for pieces of android Nov 06 19:34:50 osmosis ability to control your phone, to do anything you want with it Nov 06 19:35:03 like say turn it into a firewall, router, gateway, etc. Nov 06 19:36:21 that would be cooL! Nov 06 19:36:24 apache Nov 06 19:37:23 tweak kernels, run the latest apps, etc. Nov 06 19:42:43 ..you can run the latest apps Nov 06 19:43:36 hm Nov 06 19:43:41 still no luck with wifi Nov 06 19:43:43 suucks :( Nov 06 19:43:55 reboot the AP, just for S&G Nov 06 19:44:00 k Nov 06 19:44:25 its not an actual fix but i've got one that it won't talk to unless i reboot it occasionally. (its a g1 problem tho, other devices - from phones to desktops and most things in between) have no issues.. Nov 06 19:44:55 tweakt: yea connectbot is the shit Nov 06 19:45:26 how do I hit Ctrl in connect bot? Nov 06 19:45:32 trackball Nov 06 19:45:35 the .. yea Nov 06 19:45:46 hey, is the android eclipse plugin open source? Nov 06 19:45:55 sorry, meant alt Nov 06 19:45:57 I want to modify it Nov 06 19:46:26 well wtf that did it Nov 06 19:46:33 tweakt: hit 'about' it'll show the stupid non-clickthrough clickthrough and then the help Nov 06 19:46:33 Disconnect: thx for being patient Nov 06 19:46:35 yes it is open Nov 06 19:46:52 where do I find the source? Nov 06 19:47:07 look at the downloads section of the google code page Nov 06 19:50:32 bloo: timeout is in seconds? and it should prolly be a picker rather than a textbox. so no keyboard needed. Nov 06 19:50:32 android coming to ATT next month! Nov 06 19:51:04 disconnect, good idea Nov 06 19:51:18 * unix_lappy prays to cieling cat for a better device ;-) Nov 06 19:51:27 android coming to sprint.....never Nov 06 19:51:33 unix_lappy: source? Nov 06 19:51:39 I've got a service running, and when i go away from the activity that created it the service dies with an IllegalStateException Nov 06 19:52:38 Ramblurr: do you start the service or just bind to id? Nov 06 19:52:43 to it* Nov 06 19:53:19 zhobbs: I use bindService(aIntent, mConnection, Context.BIND_AUTO_CREATE); Nov 06 19:53:29 umdk1d3: AT&T CEO @ Web2.0 Summit. Nov 06 19:53:59 Ramblurr: if you want a service to live after your activity is gone it's best to start it before you bind it Nov 06 19:54:28 unix_lappy: ah interesting. i wonder how they balance that with their iphone investment Nov 06 19:54:45 and if we was pressured to make that statement, or how he mentioned it Nov 06 19:54:48 umdk1d3: make iPhone tethering supported. Nov 06 19:55:31 zomg stupid sms thing went back to not working Nov 06 19:55:47 wait nm i dont know Nov 06 19:55:53 zhobbs: what should the Context be in the Intent i use to start the service? Nov 06 19:56:15 Ramblurr: your activity inherits Context Nov 06 19:56:24 Ramblurr: so in an activity just use "this" Nov 06 19:56:27 so the current activity is ok? Nov 06 19:56:28 and maybe put android on another (or the same) sub-par device...it's still a nascent platform no need to let all the cats out of the bag. Nov 06 19:56:33 Ramblurr: yes Nov 06 19:56:51 yea, that's what im doing in my binderService() intent, i wasnt sure if it held for startService too Nov 06 19:56:52 cool Nov 06 19:57:57 hmm still can't seem to send alt-2 (switch windows in irssi) Nov 06 19:58:48 zhobbs: that worked, thanks Nov 06 19:59:53 make dropbear work on android (building it is up to you, as is setting the password - hint: debug.h. provided without support. in fact, i'll prolly ridicule you if i don't like the question. :) ..) http://link.sigkill.net/dropbear-v1.patch Nov 06 20:13:30 Disconnect, is the idea that we apply this to the dropbear project that's in git? Nov 06 20:13:46 yah and do a native static build. Nov 06 20:13:54 re Nov 06 20:16:59 haven't gotten key auth working but i didn't look that hard at it Nov 06 20:17:43 in theory since it gets homedir as /data ...oooh. thats where i broke it. cool Nov 06 20:19:36 is there a way the service can tell the OS it is ready to be killed ? Nov 06 20:19:57 sort of like the mediaplayback service Nov 06 20:20:04 Ramblurr: stopSelf() Nov 06 20:20:07 when a track is paused.. the backend service can be killed Nov 06 20:20:08 a service can stop itself Nov 06 20:20:20 but i dont necessarily want to stop the service Nov 06 20:20:27 only if the OS wants/needs to Nov 06 20:20:31 does that make sense? Nov 06 20:20:34 hey - no one answered this before, i'm trying to still understand some stuff about android Nov 06 20:20:41 Ramblurr: not really. but the OS will kill you if it wants to no matter what you say. Nov 06 20:20:49 for example, can i write a app that ties into the browser, and when you hold your finger on the page, it can bring up a Share menu (i.e. delicious, magnolia, reddit, etc) Nov 06 20:20:53 i would setForeground(false), though. Nov 06 20:21:11 would that be an intent, and can i hook it into the browser? Nov 06 20:21:58 jasta: ah, that's exactly what i need.. can i toggle that on and off? Nov 06 20:22:37 cause ive got a problem where if a user starts a track, then pauses it Nov 06 20:22:44 the service wont die Nov 06 20:23:06 you're not thinking clearly :) Nov 06 20:24:03 my music playing service uses a deferral pattern to die. it waits 2 minutes after pause/stop before it calls stopSelf() and releases its wake lock Nov 06 20:24:14 then when it dies, it saves the playlist/player state to disk Nov 06 20:24:17 and recovers it in onCreate Nov 06 20:24:21 so the user doesn't know what happened Nov 06 20:24:36 but you definitely want it to die. Nov 06 20:25:10 also, you want to use setForeground(true) Nov 06 20:25:17 because while you are alive, you should be playing Nov 06 20:25:43 oh, and make sure to use a WakeLock else the CPU will sleep and your audio will stop. the MediaPlayer object has a convenience method for this Nov 06 20:25:44 hm cool Nov 06 20:26:31 Ramblurr: http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-music/src/org/devtcg/five/music/service/PlaylistService.java Nov 06 20:26:53 that is the service i designed, although im sure my requirements are much greater than yours so there is a lot of complexity you could eliminate Nov 06 20:27:43 ah :) i've seen your app when looking for some examples before Nov 06 20:27:53 excellent, that's why i published it after all :) Nov 06 20:28:01 it's been very helpful Nov 06 20:31:43 what app are you working on btw? Nov 06 20:32:58 just curious why do the low level wakelock as opposed to setting MediaPlayer.setScreenOnWhilePlaying(true) ? Nov 06 20:33:15 jasta: a last.fm application Nov 06 20:33:25 Ramblurr: official or unofficial? Nov 06 20:33:34 because at the time, i didn't have the source code to the MediaPlayer and have come to distrust everything it does Nov 06 20:34:13 hm Nov 06 20:35:05 in particular, i wasnt sure that the wakelock would persist until i release it, or if it would automatically release when the mediaplayer stopped Nov 06 20:35:21 which is not what i want, because i want my service to still be awake if the user pauses Nov 06 20:35:43 and i wanted to use the deferred stop so that if the user pauses quickly, exits the application, and returns, that the service would not have died yet Nov 06 20:36:02 if the CPU were to fall asleep during this time, then my service would live much longer than i want. Nov 06 20:36:36 what's with the CacheService? Nov 06 20:36:52 is that another service you use to download tracks? Nov 06 20:36:54 you must realize that non-realtime timers like Thread.sleep, Handler.sendMessageDelayed, etc guarantee only a MINIMUM amount of time Nov 06 20:37:14 no, actually the PlaylistService manages downloading tracks (through the DownloadManager class, but in the PlaylistService thread) Nov 06 20:37:18 heh yea i've figured that one out already Nov 06 20:37:37 hm Nov 06 20:37:43 the CacheService is just a simple service that abstracts the mechanics of the cache Nov 06 20:38:02 it could have been just a class and not a service, or a shared thread even, but i felt it was tidier to expose as a service Nov 06 20:38:34 its main job is to manage the cache policy that five uses, so that the playlistservice can simply request storage and "commit" objects to cache without fussing with disk space Nov 06 20:40:07 Ramblurr: is this last.fm client official or unofficial? Nov 06 20:40:32 because i do want to point out that Five integrates with Last.fm, and numerous features using that integration are coming soon Nov 06 20:40:33 where can i find source code for this: D/VolumePanel( 48): onShowVolumeChanged(streamType: 2, flags: 17), index: 0 Nov 06 20:40:33 D/VolumePanel( 48): setRingerIcon(index: 0), ringerMode: 1 Nov 06 20:40:35 including radio Nov 06 20:40:46 it is the volume down key Nov 06 20:40:56 so collaboration would certainly be appreciated :) Nov 06 20:41:40 jasta (and zhobbs) : it's an unofficial client Nov 06 20:41:55 dipen: it's in frameworks/base/core/java/android/view Nov 06 20:42:09 Ramblurr: is it the one on the market already? Nov 06 20:42:18 i'm aimed at having feature parity with the iphone app Nov 06 20:42:22 i had heard that one was very buggy :) Nov 06 20:42:23 jasta: heh, no Nov 06 20:42:37 yea, it's a good attempt Nov 06 20:42:58 jasta: there is a java lastfm library Nov 06 20:43:13 yeah, i dont intend to use that though Nov 06 20:43:20 but it's not really designed for a mobile platform Nov 06 20:43:33 i've started stripping it down Nov 06 20:43:36 it's very inefficient. i looked at the source already Nov 06 20:43:37 anyone have good advice for squeezing more life out of the g1 battery? Nov 06 20:43:39 and optimizing it http://github.com/Ramblurr/last.fm-java/ Nov 06 20:43:45 jasta: uber inefficient Nov 06 20:43:47 wow, thanks jasta Nov 06 20:44:01 should i just return my device? Nov 06 20:44:33 jmob: if you want. Nov 06 20:44:47 jmob - have you actually run the battery downto zero? The calibration on it really sucks... It takes a lot longer to go from 10% -> 0 than it does to go from 100% -> 50% in my experience Nov 06 20:44:50 you could try a number of small tweaks/optimizations like turning off push sync support Nov 06 20:45:00 or you could try not playing with it quite so much :) Nov 06 20:45:04 jmob: turn off the radios you arent using (wifi, bluetooth, gps). Turn down the screen brightness. Reboot to make sure no third party apps are spinning in the background. Standard stuff. The G1 has a weak battery, but not a useless one. I'm still in the "new toy" mode with mine, and get 24 hours at a time out of it. Nov 06 20:45:23 don't /reallt/ want to, just want some hope that i'm not gonna be totally burned by a first gen device Nov 06 20:45:25 but truthfully, the battery is small and the platform sucks it dry. Nov 06 20:45:26 you get 24 hours? I'm jealous Nov 06 20:45:29 Ramblurr: what's the license on that library? Nov 06 20:45:30 calibration makes a -huge- difference Nov 06 20:46:01 Yeah, running it down to zero does help it a lot - but it's still not perfect even once it gets itself calibrated Nov 06 20:46:03 run it down until it absolutely will not power on, then charge it -uninterrupted- for as long as you can (24 hours is good, 8 hours is ok, prolly more than 24 is a waste) Nov 06 20:46:06 zhobbs: the original was BSD Nov 06 20:46:09 RyeBrye: ive noticed the calibration is off as well. Nov 06 20:46:11 Disconnect: yeah i've seen it getting better Nov 06 20:46:32 I lied about 24 hours. I have it charging overnight, so it's more like 16-18. And obviously not all that time is surfing or playing -- maybe 6 hours total. Nov 06 20:46:37 * jasta uses Five on his drive home every night, so that charges my phone in the car Nov 06 20:46:43 which is owrking really well for me so far Nov 06 20:46:59 I just plug it into USB whenever I'm near a computer Nov 06 20:47:06 and for me, that's like... 20 hours a day :P Nov 06 20:47:37 RyeBrye: a lot of the comps i'm near don't put out enough juice from the usb port Nov 06 20:47:51 zhobbs: oops i havent uploaded the license for mine Nov 06 20:48:23 because I'm near my computer so much, I was actually thinking of some cool ways to use the G1 as a little status monitor for my computer - or a place to dump notices about what my various systems are doing... the easiest way to do that woudl be to somehow make a growl client I think Nov 06 20:48:44 RyeBrye: the uninterrupted bit is important for calibration Nov 06 20:48:57 yah growl can talk to tcp ports. so should be prety easy Nov 06 20:49:03 just turn it into a notification Nov 06 20:49:04 Yeah, just a matter of time Nov 06 20:49:13 Well - I was thinking of using the full screen of the G1 Nov 06 20:49:26 Ramblurr: what's last.fm's policy on radio clients? I don't think radio is in the last.fm v2.0 API right, and they might cut people off at any time? Nov 06 20:49:29 so it would be like a little LCD panel kind of thing - only with a much nicer screen Nov 06 20:49:36 zhobbs: have you looked at all these properties that the MediaPlaybackActivity specifies? Nov 06 20:49:53 taskAffinity="", launchMode=singleTask, clearTaskOnLaunch=true, excludeFromRecents=true? Nov 06 20:49:57 zhobbs: Radio is in the 2.0 api Nov 06 20:50:00 do you do similar in your app? Nov 06 20:50:03 Is the G1 video record capable, any src code on it or api dox Nov 06 20:50:15 zhobbs: however usage is restricted by your API key, your api key needs to get permissions to use the radio Nov 06 20:50:26 jasta: I do singleTask Nov 06 20:50:36 where is the documentation for this? Nov 06 20:50:39 zhobbs: and yes the pre 2.0 radio api could be disabled at any moment Nov 06 20:51:07 zhobbs: nm i found it Nov 06 20:51:17 they have improved this it seems ;) Nov 06 20:51:38 jasta: I use launchMode="singleTask" for my main activity also Nov 06 20:52:16 i gotta read about this, i just didnt even think about it but i hate the way my activity history/stack works implicitly in five Nov 06 20:52:19 drives me bonkers Nov 06 20:54:03 clearTaskOnLaunch=true and excludeFromRecents=true are interesting, I'll have to research those Nov 06 20:54:34 is it just me or does taskAffinity="" and launchMode="singleTask" seem to imply launchMode="singleInstance"? Nov 06 20:55:15 for some reason Nov 06 20:55:17 either Nov 06 20:55:42 pTerminal, telnetd, the proxy/tethering application, or leaving USB debugging seriously drains the battery Nov 06 20:55:55 zhobbs: ive never even seen thi appmodel documentation Nov 06 20:56:00 jasta: Have you gotten gdb working? Nov 06 20:56:03 If so, did you use Nov 06 20:56:07 my battery went from 100% to dead, while in my pocket, in a single hour Nov 06 20:56:09 http://www.billrocks.org/ideas/index.php?/archives/20-Debugging-Android-Native-C-Applications-with-gdb.html#extended Nov 06 20:56:18 the gdbserver linked from there? Nov 06 20:56:29 proxy/tethering prolly since it keeps it awake Nov 06 20:56:39 thats what my guess was Nov 06 20:56:50 jasta: yeah, the term "Task" isn't used much anywhere else Nov 06 20:57:17 vol: FWIW, "adb forward tcp:1234 tcp:1234" will do the job of the "telnet"+"redir" line Nov 06 20:57:17 Why does it keep it awake, and what does it mean if it's "asleep"? it just stops processing all non-essential programs? Nov 06 20:57:38 vol: and it works for the real device too Nov 06 20:57:49 fadden: right, the issue is that gdbserver didn't seem to stop for breakpoints last time we tried Nov 06 20:57:56 how does stuff like maverick stay connected while asleep then Nov 06 20:57:56 though I haven't had the change to try that yet Nov 06 20:58:02 (that was another dev) Nov 06 21:00:16 anyone notice that gtalk disconnects while asleep too? Nov 06 21:00:24 Ramblurr: when you apply for an API key that will allow radio did you just do "non-commercial"? Or "Bespoke"? Nov 06 21:00:24 any way to prevent that? Nov 06 21:00:57 zhobbs: last.fm isnt handing out API keys with radio access Nov 06 21:01:28 ahh Nov 06 21:01:43 it's a big debacle, heh Nov 06 21:01:59 all third-party clients are to use the old radio apis Nov 06 21:02:21 ahh, so you are using the old radio api's? Nov 06 21:09:25 zhobbs: im pretty much forced to :( Nov 06 21:09:45 if i ever get a key with sufficient perms, i've got the code ready to drop in Nov 06 21:10:11 coooool [1335] Nov 06 21:07:57 pubkey auth succeeded for 'root' with key md5 Nov 06 21:11:45 zhobbs: the source code has revealed so much magic its ridiculous :) Nov 06 21:12:12 like, who knew about setVolumeControlStream, sheesh :0 Nov 06 21:12:28 jasta: it's nice though...I grep the source all the time to find out wtf is going on Nov 06 21:12:33 yeah, me too Nov 06 21:12:35 fadden: in any event, is that an acceptable gdbserver ot use, or do you compile your own via the toolchain? Nov 06 21:12:36 very, very helpful Nov 06 21:13:23 I actually figured out how to zip up the source and have eclipse pick it up...so now I can step right into the framework classes Nov 06 21:13:35 ok i put up link.sigkill.net/dropbear-v1.1.patch with some tweaks and a little bit of advice Nov 06 21:13:49 (building/using it advice) Nov 06 21:13:59 zhobbs: you don't need to zip the source Nov 06 21:13:59 Has anyone had success installing Term.apk on the G1? (this one - http://www.helloandroid.com/files/Term.apk). It always fails when I try. Nov 06 21:14:17 bl0rpl3: I have Nov 06 21:14:24 romainguy: where do you put it? Nov 06 21:14:35 you can just point Eclipse to a directory with the source inside Nov 06 21:14:51 I just sync the git repositories and target platform/base/core/java Nov 06 21:15:11 romainguy: the eclipse plugin hard codes the source location, and it's "non modifiable" Nov 06 21:15:22 aah Nov 06 21:15:24 "$SDK/sources" Nov 06 21:15:24 stupid plugin :) Nov 06 21:15:25 zhobbs: did you have to do anything special? I even tried restoring everything to the original state. Nov 06 21:15:31 well, if you were not using the plugin, it'd work :p Nov 06 21:15:37 hehe Nov 06 21:15:57 yeah, should probably change it to be "modifiable" Nov 06 21:16:10 bl0rpl3: I've done it via the browser and via adb Nov 06 21:16:37 bl0rpl3: but there was someone in here who couldn't get it to work via the browser yesterday, but did get adb to install it Nov 06 21:17:09 zhobbs: ok thanks. i will definitely try that. Nov 06 21:17:28 vol: we have a prebuilt one in the source tree. Let me see how it compares. Nov 06 21:17:57 (source tree == old internal one; I don't see it in the open-source one) Nov 06 21:20:01 fadden: ah. That might be why other people are having more success with gdb than we have been. Nov 06 21:20:32 how does the activity stack behave if the user goes back to an activity that changed it's contentview with setContentView more than once? Nov 06 21:20:42 does it just show the last state of the activity Nov 06 21:20:54 i suppose so, if it doesnt have to recreate it Nov 06 21:21:22 zhobbs: yep that did it. thank you so much. Nov 06 21:21:41 bl0rpl3: cool...not sure why it doesn't work in the browser for some people Nov 06 21:23:30 vol: I replaced the one on my device with the one from the web site Nov 06 21:23:42 It seemed to work -- I could attach to a process and get a stack trace. Nov 06 21:23:55 Wasn't so happy with a breakpoint -- process terminated with a SIGTRAP. Nov 06 21:24:04 Let me retry the experiment with our gdbserver. Nov 06 21:25:16 fadden: yeah, we can't get breakpoints to work with that one. Nov 06 21:25:32 Is there a version we SHOULD be using, or is there a version that you can provide? Nov 06 21:25:54 Breakpoint worked with my version. Nov 06 21:27:01 hmm Nov 06 21:27:16 alright, I have yet to actually try this version myself, lets see what happens Nov 06 21:27:40 vol: let me figure out where this copy of gdbserver came from Nov 06 21:28:02 fadden: tjamls Nov 06 21:28:03 Looks like you may need our version. Nov 06 21:28:03 er Nov 06 21:28:07 thanks Nov 06 21:28:08 hi all, I am quite new to android, I am curious is there an api to see where you are in 3 dimensional space with android? Nov 06 21:28:19 with gps? Nov 06 21:29:47 xp_prg: the geolocation utils have getAltitude methods iirc Nov 06 21:30:05 so that is z, what about x and y? Nov 06 21:31:36 xda-developers appears to be back Nov 06 21:31:46 indeed Nov 06 21:31:51 hello anyone know the answer to that, it is important to me Nov 06 21:31:51 cool Nov 06 21:32:28 xp_prg: look at the geolocation libraries Nov 06 21:32:32 they'll provide you lat/long Nov 06 21:32:42 remember, the earth is not a perfect sphere Nov 06 21:32:47 gps is a lousy source of z Nov 06 21:33:07 so your saying I can determine where I am in 3d space then? Nov 06 21:33:17 xp_prg: you won't get exactly x/y Nov 06 21:33:21 but you will get lat/long Nov 06 21:33:29 and if you have an alt fix you'll get altitude as well Nov 06 21:33:32 well how close can I get? Nov 06 21:33:32 yes, with varying degrees of accuracy Nov 06 21:33:36 <`vip> questions, where are tones stored that are used for notifications Nov 06 21:33:42 that's as best as you can do Nov 06 21:33:48 <`vip> i want to use the mario warp pipe sound for SMS but i dunno where to place it Nov 06 21:33:48 <`vip> :l Nov 06 21:33:49 you can always do your own great circle calculations Nov 06 21:34:06 yeah coordinate conversion isn't very tough Nov 06 21:34:07 vol what are you talking about? Nov 06 21:34:41 how can I build an unsigned apk in the android-git tree? Nov 06 21:34:58 does the tmobile that runs android have blue thing wireless communication? Nov 06 21:35:24 bluetooth? Nov 06 21:35:26 ya Nov 06 21:35:29 `vip /system/media/audio/notifications/ Nov 06 21:35:38 ya, but not exposed to programmers yet Nov 06 21:35:39 <`vip> ok thanks Nov 06 21:35:40 xp_prg: the geolocation libraries won't provide x/y/z Nov 06 21:35:44 fyi SanMehat et al, xp is just a troll that wandered in from somewhere else. Nov 06 21:35:44 they'll provide lat/long/alt Nov 06 21:35:46 so headset if fine Nov 06 21:36:01 vol but you can convert that to x/xy/z right? Nov 06 21:36:03 is Nov 06 21:36:05 the earth isn't a perfect sphere, so you can't do that and get x/y/z locs without doing specific calculations Nov 06 21:36:16 you can get approximate locations Nov 06 21:36:18 right but the calculations are trivial Nov 06 21:36:24 yeah Nov 06 21:36:27 it's pretty CLOSE to a sphere Nov 06 21:36:37 how approximate are they do you think, like += 3 feet or something? Nov 06 21:36:40 but if you're in alaska you may be off by a hundred miles. Nov 06 21:36:42 += Nov 06 21:36:45 +- Nov 06 21:36:48 its more like a circle, I heard in church. Nov 06 21:36:52 xp_prg: look it up Nov 06 21:36:52 vol er, no not 100 miles Nov 06 21:37:00 10 or even 1 Nov 06 21:37:06 is still a good amount if you're trying to be exact Nov 06 21:37:10 not even 1 Nov 06 21:37:15 eh. Nov 06 21:37:17 anyways Nov 06 21:37:21 not perfect Nov 06 21:37:23 more than 3 feet Nov 06 21:37:27 gps is 90% within 10 meters Nov 06 21:37:30 when is the bluethood api going to be released? Nov 06 21:37:42 assuming a good view of the sky, enough sats, and enough time Nov 06 21:37:43 i belive civilan spec gps's are 3m Nov 06 21:37:49 so yeah, 9ft ish Nov 06 21:38:07 pretty sure it's 10m Nov 06 21:38:09 was 100m Nov 06 21:38:20 then they stopped adding the error Nov 06 21:38:22 no, definatly not Nov 06 21:38:24 <`vip> well that sucks when i try to paste using glance, i get an error ... The application Glance (process com.androidnerds.utilities.Glance) has stopped unexpectedly. Please try again. :( Nov 06 21:38:30 when is the bluethood api going to be released? Nov 06 21:38:32 right, in like 04 Nov 06 21:38:32 the 3m is just a fake where they time average Nov 06 21:39:09 or maybe it's 50% with 3m and 90% within 10m or something Nov 06 21:39:11 spikebike: hey, whatever, I guess the earth is a perfect sphere after all, good luck on your x/y/z calcs. Nov 06 21:39:41 what about a reference tmobile phone, would that correct the error and give you exact xyz? Nov 06 21:39:50 so you would have 2 phones Nov 06 21:40:09 if you know for sure where the first phone is, you can know exactly where the 2nd phone is yes? Nov 06 21:40:10 nothing about gps is 'exact' Nov 06 21:40:21 but you can get greater access with that approach yes? Nov 06 21:40:40 any advances towards tethering? Nov 06 21:40:50 xp_prg: it will give you very precise lat/long/altitude Nov 06 21:40:50 I mean accuracy Nov 06 21:41:06 more preceise then 3 meters right? Nov 06 21:41:10 that does not necessarily translate to x/y/z without taking into account the fact that the earth is more a donut than a sphere Nov 06 21:41:12 they are still both going to experience inacturaccies, and when you multiply accuracies together, they get worse Nov 06 21:41:28 if you just want to show approximate locations, that's absolutely fine Nov 06 21:41:36 you're off by 100 feet, yeah, whatever. Nov 06 21:41:54 ok when is the bluetooth api going to be released? Nov 06 21:41:55 90% approx * 90% approx = 81% approx location Nov 06 21:41:58 but if you want to be precise, you'll need to do more accurate calculations from lat/long to x/y/z Nov 06 21:42:11 but a reference phone would help right? Nov 06 21:42:39 no, not really Nov 06 21:42:47 why not Gigawatts? Nov 06 21:42:49 and it would be way more trouble than its worth Nov 06 21:42:58 is anyone going to answer my bluethooth api question? Nov 06 21:43:09 Gigawatts: uhh... I'm not sure that's how it works (the .9*.9=.81 thing) Nov 06 21:43:18 because then your just multiplying approximations, and coming up with worse approximations Nov 06 21:44:36 hello bluetooth anyone? Nov 06 21:45:09 <`vip_> is there a way to view the system folder when i have it plugged in via USB ? Nov 06 21:46:07 `vip_: adb shell Nov 06 21:46:18 `vip_: or ddms has a file browser I think Nov 06 21:50:22 Gigawatts: for instance, if you've got 100 phones, you have 100 estimates. Your accuracy is certainly going to be higher than .9^100 Nov 06 21:51:00 Gigawatts: and, generally, averaging gives you a low-pass filter effect, which tends to attenuate noise Nov 06 21:51:22 zhobbs: yes Nov 06 21:51:34 there is only one bluetooth phone currently right? Nov 06 21:51:36 it's nice and allows upload and download Nov 06 21:53:51 can the G1 handle wpa2 enterprise? ie: is there a way to load a cert using the gui? Nov 06 21:54:44 no Nov 06 21:54:47 * TimRiker notices the topic... "may now be logged" is not nearly as useful as pointing to the logs. Nov 06 21:54:51 ~logs Nov 06 21:54:52 All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Nov 06 21:55:23 Disconnect: what about using dev tools? ie: not the gui. Nov 06 21:55:36 vol gotta run to a meeting, but the radium varies by 21km Nov 06 21:55:40 g1 is locked (well, supposedly) Nov 06 21:55:44 (polar vs equator) Nov 06 21:55:44 I can get my iPhone on the corporate net, but not the G1. :( Nov 06 21:55:58 but the GPS reference takes that into account Nov 06 21:56:10 welcome to cutting edge. istr original iphone w/ original load couldn't even do wpa2-personal. so.. it'll happen Nov 06 21:56:11 file a bug Nov 06 21:56:44 the iPhone needs a profile config to do it, but it does handle it. Nov 06 21:56:56 where should I file the bug? :) Nov 06 21:57:25 TimRiker: oh, hey. I recognize you from somewhere Nov 06 21:57:47 TimRiker: it does now, but it didn't when it was new. and there's an issue tracker Nov 06 21:57:48 well, I run the abused^Wpopular infobot here. Nov 06 21:58:08 its not that popular here Nov 06 21:58:29 agreed Nov 06 21:58:34 TimRiker: no, I recognize you from elsewhere (probably another channel or something) Nov 06 21:58:38 gdsx: but I'm involved in many other open source projects. including many embedded Linux projects. Nov 06 21:58:44 aah! Nov 06 21:59:02 TimRiker: handhelds.org, no? Nov 06 21:59:10 BZFlag, elinux, tuxscreen, infobot, debian, busybox, uclibc, ... Nov 06 21:59:19 yeah, handhelds.org too. Nov 06 21:59:23 yeah, that's where Nov 06 21:59:48 I used to run familiar/intimate on my iPaqs Nov 06 21:59:57 * TimRiker nods Nov 06 22:01:30 Is there any emulator and debugger available for developers to ease the production of android software? Nov 06 22:01:46 LordMetroid: the SDK includes an emulator. Nov 06 22:01:49 of course Nov 06 22:01:56 nice Nov 06 22:02:09 we need this. http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/weblogsinc/tuaw/~3/op2UaxBJteQ/ Nov 06 22:03:01 Disconnect: got that back when it was still free. Nov 06 22:03:43 anyone know if it is possible to stream m3u, asx, or pls files? Nov 06 22:04:01 need a better labyrinth game too. with 3d effects, sound, user editable levels, network speed competitions, non-flat floors, etc. :) Nov 06 22:04:46 Disconnect: i don't get how you know you want to get out of something in advance? Nov 06 22:04:54 Disconnect: do you like go to th ebathroom and then set up your fake call ? Nov 06 22:05:19 fadden: know where it came from? Nov 06 22:05:22 thoraxe: just pop your phone under the table, and hit the shortcut. "oops! I gotta get that call..." Nov 06 22:05:25 or still looking? Nov 06 22:05:30 you could. or just set it up as an escape - just beaouse it goes off odesn' tmean you have to bail Nov 06 22:05:32 d0nets: why would you stream a playlist? Nov 06 22:05:39 music Nov 06 22:05:40 vol: we built it internally Nov 06 22:05:43 i use jinzora Nov 06 22:05:46 so set it for 15-30 mins and "oh its not important" or "damn i gotta go" Nov 06 22:05:48 m3u and pls are playlists Nov 06 22:05:52 right Nov 06 22:05:53 vol: the question is whether the difference is in the configuration or the sources Nov 06 22:05:56 hi Nov 06 22:05:59 playlist != music Nov 06 22:06:02 well Nov 06 22:06:03 ok Nov 06 22:06:05 fadden: bleh. Nov 06 22:06:09 i dont know how jinzora works Nov 06 22:06:10 vol: if the sources are different, then I need to make sure we're making the changed sources available to satisfy GPL requirements Nov 06 22:06:11 and stream from where to where? Nov 06 22:06:12 opera mini was running on the sdk before release Nov 06 22:06:13 but you can choose between those Nov 06 22:06:16 is Marketplace just some website somewhere? Nov 06 22:06:17 anyone heard about current status? Nov 06 22:06:21 jinzora is kinda like Orb Nov 06 22:06:26 for music on linux Nov 06 22:06:35 fadden: "we built it internally" meaning "we grabbed the gdbserver source and compiled it via toolchain" Nov 06 22:06:46 or "we made our own very spcial customizations Nov 06 22:07:01 vol: right -- I'm not sure which of those is the case. Nov 06 22:07:03 so, you want to stream an internet radio broadcast to the g1? Nov 06 22:07:08 i guess Nov 06 22:07:09 d0nets: so what you're really asking is if android supports playing streamed media Nov 06 22:07:15 right Nov 06 22:07:16 * Disconnect decides to be kind (ish) and release dropbear bins Nov 06 22:07:19 i know it does Nov 06 22:07:19 yeah, id like to know that too Nov 06 22:07:33 i don't have an answer to that, bu ti'd like to know it too Nov 06 22:07:39 but when i click the files, it looks like its downloading something in the browser, but doesnt do anything past that Nov 06 22:07:42 i know there is an imeem and last.fm client, so my assumption is yes Nov 06 22:07:55 thoraxe right, but i want to stream personal media Nov 06 22:08:03 d0nets: an m3u or pls is just a playlist, it has instructions on what server to connect to Nov 06 22:08:13 my guess is that the media player doesn't understand those files to begin with Nov 06 22:08:24 right, so can the g1 open streamed music from a playlist file? Nov 06 22:08:44 i don't think out of the box it can, and i don't think there are apps for tha tyet Nov 06 22:08:46 the .ask files worked in wm6 Nov 06 22:08:50 the music app understands .m3u and .pls, but only insofar as they refer to local files. Nov 06 22:08:59 that's because .asx is a windows media playlist file Nov 06 22:09:03 playlist files that reference streams are not supported Nov 06 22:09:19 well we need that Nov 06 22:09:23 and we need sirius/xm Nov 06 22:09:25 marcone: i wonder if it'd be possible to hack the media player app and allow it to do that Nov 06 22:09:37 and i need to get my guitar tuner ported, but the java source uses javax.sound Nov 06 22:09:39 is there an ability to type in a url in the g1's media player? Nov 06 22:09:41 but that was removed from the sdk Nov 06 22:09:46 there is no reason why you couldn't write your own app that handles playlist files and then streams the URLs they reference Nov 06 22:09:49 man its so strange everytime i turn off my phone and back on it always come up with an exclamation and phone icon Nov 06 22:09:58 elad Nov 06 22:10:01 unplug the battery Nov 06 22:10:03 and then try Nov 06 22:10:06 battery reset didnt help this time Nov 06 22:10:08 i tried Nov 06 22:10:16 hold power and home Nov 06 22:10:18 elad: can you drag the exclamation point down? Nov 06 22:10:19 after you do batt reset Nov 06 22:10:21 I suspect there is a password problem Nov 06 22:10:26 marcone: well, that assumes that android has support for playing streaming formats Nov 06 22:11:11 thoraxe: it does Nov 06 22:11:20 well, some of them at least Nov 06 22:11:39 marcone: i'm surprised then that no one has yet written an app to access that crap then Nov 06 22:11:43 what's taking so long!!! Nov 06 22:11:44 haha Nov 06 22:11:55 how much java do you need to know to write android apps? Nov 06 22:12:01 still no luck Nov 06 22:12:23 thoraxe i dont know any Nov 06 22:12:26 guess ill go to the tmobile store Nov 06 22:12:27 and i dont know wtf im doing Nov 06 22:12:35 lol Nov 06 22:12:44 d0nets: so does that mean you have not written any apps yet? :P Nov 06 22:12:52 right Nov 06 22:12:56 Java isn't hard to learn Nov 06 22:12:57 but im working on porting one Nov 06 22:13:05 but they dont have some things i need in the library Nov 06 22:13:08 so im at a block Nov 06 22:13:12 LordMetroid: i work quite often in ruby on rails and i've done a fair bit of php Nov 06 22:13:20 LordMetroid: i guess i should look into it Nov 06 22:13:34 my buddy does ruby on rails Nov 06 22:13:36 i can't think of an app i'd want to write though Nov 06 22:13:45 help me port my guitar tuner lol Nov 06 22:13:50 or we need a sirius/xm app Nov 06 22:13:51 There is excellent although a little bit hard to understand at first documentation for Java Nov 06 22:13:53 or the streaming app Nov 06 22:14:07 I am sure you will get a hang of it quickly Nov 06 22:14:20 d0nets: yeah but i don't need any of that stuff - no incentive for me :P Nov 06 22:14:37 how do you plan on using a xm app? Nov 06 22:14:46 Gigawatts: to play the xm web audio Nov 06 22:14:47 gigawatts what do you mean Nov 06 22:14:50 right Nov 06 22:14:54 internet Nov 06 22:14:59 Gigawatts: if you have an xm subscription you can also listen over the web Nov 06 22:15:02 i loved having sirius on my htc wizard Nov 06 22:15:06 ah, didnt know that Nov 06 22:15:08 ok Nov 06 22:15:16 yup yup Nov 06 22:15:16 well, that fits right in with our streaming media problem Nov 06 22:15:18 yup yup Nov 06 22:15:18 and like i said earlier, it would be AWSOME to have a "tivo" like functionality with it Nov 06 22:19:08 speaking of TIVO - how about a UPNP video player :P Nov 06 22:22:02 hah Nov 06 22:26:23 i require opera mini Nov 06 22:29:59 bluetooth api? Nov 06 22:31:39 xp_prg: whatever is available at code.google.com/android is what we know. Nov 06 22:31:53 afaik bluetooth is not directly available as an api? Nov 06 22:32:52 I hate that :( Nov 06 22:33:02 how can I communicate easily with my arduino board then :( Nov 06 22:33:10 it's coming (soon?) Nov 06 22:33:39 so how many packages are in marketplace right now? Nov 06 22:33:49 there is only one android phone right now right? Nov 06 22:34:02 xp_prg, yes, though people have it running on the N810 Nov 06 22:34:07 theCarpenter, quite a few Nov 06 22:34:40 numberwise? Nov 06 22:34:46 is there any way of finding out? Nov 06 22:35:10 i'm trying to write up something for my boss Nov 06 22:35:17 do you have a phone? Nov 06 22:35:20 and a good ballpark figure woudl be nice Nov 06 22:35:22 no lol Nov 06 22:35:23 ah Nov 06 22:35:30 this is to convince the company to spring for phones ;) Nov 06 22:35:31 let me see if I can make an estimate Nov 06 22:35:33 :) Nov 06 22:35:34 when are more phones coming out? Nov 06 22:35:37 alright, thank you :) Nov 06 22:35:47 xp_prg, I believe kyocera announced that they are working on one Nov 06 22:35:59 how long will it be? Nov 06 22:36:30 xp_prg, you'll have to ask Kyocera Nov 06 22:38:37 theCarpenter, man, I thought I'd be able to look at the All Applications list and guess, but it stops after a certain number Nov 06 22:39:00 KNY: what number? Nov 06 22:39:06 theCarpenter, I'm not sure :) Nov 06 22:39:08 k Nov 06 22:39:16 I would guess ~200? Nov 06 22:39:36 it's ordered by date and where it stopped, they aren't even that recent Nov 06 22:39:49 and that doesn't count games Nov 06 22:40:08 just pulling a number from you-know-where, maybe 500? Nov 06 22:40:28 with an uncertainty of +/- 1000 ;) Nov 06 22:41:55 Why does the main screen doesnt support the accelerometer? Every review on YouTube mentions now that the G1 hasnt got accelerometer which is wrong. :P Nov 06 22:42:14 yeh it's annoying Nov 06 22:42:21 I'll third that Nov 06 22:42:58 I would hate my G1 to change the orientation based on the accelerometers Nov 06 22:43:12 romainguy: ok thats true. :-) Nov 06 22:43:24 It just leads to some wrong statements in the reviews. Nov 06 22:43:26 I hated it on my iPhone Nov 06 22:43:30 and I hate it on my iPod nano Nov 06 22:43:35 yes, that's unfortunate Nov 06 22:43:36 Nearly every review mentions that :) Nov 06 22:43:45 meh Nov 06 22:43:55 good for them if they like getting stuck in the stupid CoverFlow mode :) Nov 06 22:44:05 Yeah just wanted to know I understand the reason for that. :-) Nov 06 22:44:21 well a configurable option would make everyone happy then yes? Nov 06 22:44:32 * anno^da_ looks at his old gen 1 nano :D Nov 06 22:44:40 I noticed PicSay changes orientation based on the accelerometer Nov 06 22:44:42 rockbox, ftw Nov 06 22:44:48 an app can request it in the manifest Nov 06 22:44:54 Gigawatts: only rockbox :-) Nov 06 22:45:06 heh, whats the terminal emulator that's shown up in the marketplace? Nov 06 22:45:10 :) thats the only reason i have a 1st gen nano Nov 06 22:45:18 Accelerometer is there, The default Movie player changes position when you move it :) Nov 06 22:45:22 it's cool, when you're not trying to listen to music lying down or in bed Nov 06 22:45:26 pterminal Nov 06 22:45:27 digitalspaghetti: I stuck that up there :) Nov 06 22:45:43 term.apk is better and its from google Nov 06 22:45:49 noted Nov 06 22:45:55 Laz: I stuck Term.apk on the Market Nov 06 22:45:59 cool Nov 06 22:46:24 that pTerminal or whatever is complete garbage Nov 06 22:46:26 do not install Nov 06 22:46:30 lol why Nov 06 22:46:39 I heard good things about it Nov 06 22:46:40 it's totally worthless Nov 06 22:46:42 Gigawatts: yeah me too. I just hate the battery life of my nano after years of usage. :D Nov 06 22:47:14 KNY: actual reasons please Nov 06 22:47:38 Laz, maybe I'm not using it right, but the only thing that works is ls Nov 06 22:47:41 yeah, mine hasnt seen much use from its prev owner, so mines still pretty good Nov 06 22:47:41 KNY: I guess it's worthless if you don't use ssh Nov 06 22:47:42 does anyone have any idea what IP address the marketplace is at? Nov 06 22:47:44 I'm going to regret putting it on there, I've already gotten a few emails like "what is this application for and why should I install it?" Nov 06 22:47:45 or URL? Nov 06 22:47:50 the one that android accesses via phone i mean Nov 06 22:47:54 Isn't pTerminal a ssh client? Nov 06 22:47:57 BHSPitWeb, no Nov 06 22:48:05 KNY: something is wrong Nov 06 22:48:07 BHSPitWeb: that's ConnectBot Nov 06 22:48:08 very much know Nov 06 22:48:12 no* Nov 06 22:48:13 ConnectBot is the best Nov 06 22:48:35 zhobbs: oh, right Nov 06 22:48:43 Laz, I see it's been updated since I installed it last Nov 06 22:49:05 at least the description has been updated, anyway Nov 06 22:49:15 dropbear with root is the best Nov 06 22:49:24 TimRiker: Hi there! Nov 06 22:50:23 cworth: wait... you're a handhelds.org person also, aren't you? Nov 06 22:50:34 gdsx: I was long ago, yes. Nov 06 22:50:38 nice, you can ping from terminal Nov 06 22:50:42 cworth: awesome Nov 06 22:50:55 cworth: I've asked you various questions before, I think Nov 06 22:51:03 ave 600ms ping to google.com on my phone data Nov 06 22:51:10 cworth: possibly as xsdg, or possibly as yossarian Nov 06 22:51:12 gdsx: I can't refute that. :-) Nov 06 22:51:24 Ah, yes, xsdg does seem more familiar. Nov 06 22:51:48 irssi is finally working on the g1 :) Nov 06 22:52:25 Laz, ConnectBot + screen = irssi :) Nov 06 22:52:49 native irssi ftw Nov 06 22:53:01 if I'm creating my own list of stuff (but not a ListActivity), is there a way I can get that nice gradient divider that ListActivity gets? Nov 06 22:53:05 yea, and set up a session and then connect using -x from android, you can see yourself typing :) Nov 06 22:54:09 Any way to make connectbot send ^^ (control-^, \x1e)? I use that as my screen key since I actually use ^A all the time for other things. Nov 06 22:54:22 Laz: nice, how'd you get that working? Nov 06 22:54:39 compiled it for the g1 Nov 06 22:55:06 using? Nov 06 22:55:21 Laz, share the binary Nov 06 22:55:25 cross compiler Nov 06 22:55:55 ill get the script for you Nov 06 22:56:27 is there any way to poke the g1 into opening a file off sd Nov 06 22:56:32 just like, a random file Nov 06 22:56:52 What do you mean, opening? I can look at pictures on my SD card, no problem. Nov 06 22:57:31 I want it to use whatever the default application is to open a file I specify Nov 06 22:58:03 does anyone have experience setting up the eclipse environment for editing the android eclipse plugin? Nov 06 22:58:05 KNY: look at ListView.setDivider() Nov 06 22:58:11 I can't use file:///sdcard/somefile.ext can I? Nov 06 22:58:29 I dunno, give it a go and let us know :) Nov 06 22:58:38 herriojr: there are docs in the source that give pretty good instructions on getting it setup Nov 06 22:58:47 marcone, I'll look into that Nov 06 22:58:51 thanks Nov 06 22:58:56 yeah, I've been reading those Nov 06 22:59:25 herriojr: I haven't done it, just stumbled upon that doc Nov 06 22:59:38 ok Nov 06 22:59:42 the doc is missing things Nov 06 23:00:33 haha, idea ping - a android MUD client :) Nov 06 23:01:10 step 3: profit! Nov 06 23:04:35 digitalspaghetti, and while we are at it an android z-code machine Nov 06 23:05:29 oh yea, zorking it on the bus :) Nov 06 23:05:48 jeld, digitalspaghetti: Nov 06 23:05:51 I think I should make a script for them to do all this instead of having to do it manually Nov 06 23:05:55 argh I would kill to be able to change my trackball sensitivity Nov 06 23:06:01 YES!!! Nov 06 23:06:55 danfuzz: <3 Nov 06 23:07:08 hehe :o) Nov 06 23:08:02 why are these apps not in the marketplace yet? I suppose the developers haven't paid the $25 yet Nov 06 23:09:23 where is the source code for terminal? I found a simple telnet client example, and I'd like to try port it to do MUD connections Nov 06 23:10:06 So you guys have root now eh/ Nov 06 23:10:15 have you taken a look to figure out exactly what closed source pieces are present? Nov 06 23:10:29 I'm curious to know whether there are many closed source drivers in it. Nov 06 23:11:26 danfuzz, Failure [INSTALL_PARSE_FAILED_MANIFEST_MALFORMED] :( :( :( Nov 06 23:11:45 durn, must still be built against a pre-1.0 sdk Nov 06 23:12:09 actual priject page: Nov 06 23:12:19 s/priject/project/ Nov 06 23:12:20 danfuzz meant: actual project page: Nov 06 23:12:21 danfuzz, great, I can build my own Nov 06 23:17:23 where is the guide to complile and upload to the phone via USB? Nov 06 23:17:59 start here: Nov 06 23:18:32 actually, here is better: Nov 06 23:19:05 esp: Nov 06 23:26:29 argh, so if the thumbnails are unix timestamp+ms, is that first play or filespec, and isn't ms *not* stored in fat? Nov 06 23:27:16 unix_lappy: a cross-compiler? Nov 06 23:27:25 unix_lappy: ignore Nov 06 23:31:17 all depends on whether he can post a viable make script or a binary Nov 06 23:37:45 anyone knwo the IP address the phone hits to pull Android Market information? Nov 06 23:38:40 theCarpenter, still trying to get that number? :P Nov 06 23:38:47 yeah :P Nov 06 23:38:54 this is kinda driving me insane Nov 06 23:38:57 heh Nov 06 23:39:14 some Google employees hang around here--they might be able to help you Nov 06 23:40:02 wasabi: I haven't heard what parts might be proprietary. Nov 06 23:40:15 are there not basic cli apps available? Nov 06 23:41:04 wasabi: A great way of finding out is creating and flashing new images created from source. But I haven't heard yet that it's not risky to do that, (eg. if the bootloader refuses to boot a kernel if not signed with a particular signature). Nov 06 23:41:13 jasta: ping Nov 06 23:41:21 summatusmentis: Define "basic". ;-) Nov 06 23:41:40 summatusmentis: The default install is extremely limited, but you can install busybox to get a fairly complete set. Nov 06 23:41:48 hey guys, layout question: how can I get the following to happen? [[this is one LinearLayout]---------[smaller]] They're both dynamic sizes, and I want them to stay as far apart as they can Nov 06 23:41:57 cworth: well, shouldn't there be a way to watch net traffic from the cli? Nov 06 23:42:03 in CSS, it'd be like float: right and float: left Nov 06 23:42:20 Indeed... although i think i've been whining enough about this that they may have heard me by now and chosen simply not to respond ;) Nov 06 23:42:21 ttuttle: pong Nov 06 23:42:36 theCarpenter, haha Nov 06 23:42:46 jasta: can you help me with five later tonight? Nov 06 23:42:58 anyone know wtf to do if an app im trying to port uses javax.sound? Nov 06 23:43:00 jasta: i'm having trouble getting it to play stuff. Nov 06 23:43:16 sure. do you have some general idea what's going on? Nov 06 23:43:25 me or tuttle? Nov 06 23:43:32 jasta: it crashes when i tap a song. Nov 06 23:43:34 summatusmentis: I'd like a lot of things along those lines. But apparently the people who assembled the default images didn't expect users to want to do that kind of thing. Nov 06 23:43:39 cworth: The bootloader can restore from the sdcard, so hopefully you'd be able to recover a bricked phone with an official image. Obviously not tested by me yet. Nov 06 23:43:41 tuttle i have the same prob with five Nov 06 23:43:49 cworth: Probably easy enough to just get root access adn look around. Nov 06 23:43:57 jasta i got a log cat last night but its in my windblows partition Nov 06 23:43:57 jasta: also, one of the mbid updates fails in the server. Nov 06 23:44:03 KNY: you could have the right layout in a relative layout and android:layout_alignParentRight Nov 06 23:44:07 ttuttle: hmm, interesting. Nov 06 23:44:19 andyross: actually, the recovery code can read a system update from the SD card (not the bootloader). Nov 06 23:44:23 umdk1d3, thanks, I'll look into it Nov 06 23:44:26 andyross: Hmm.. So "restore from sdcard" should be easy enough to attempt without needing to do the bricking part first. :-) Nov 06 23:44:31 ttuttle: how do you mean re the mbid update? Nov 06 23:44:49 nice, i just compiled and installed my first android app (not my app, but first time i've installed this way) Nov 06 23:44:57 jbq: Oh, if that's "recovery code" running under Linux, then yeah, that would make things less safe. Nov 06 23:45:10 jasta: one of the sqlite queries (the one that saves an mbid) fails. i can get you more details later Nov 06 23:45:20 that's pretty bizarre Nov 06 23:45:23 Oh, yeah, clearly that's not going to work if it's not in the bootloader. Nov 06 23:45:29 KNY: or you might have the layout_weight of the left object=1, havent tried that approach though Nov 06 23:45:41 andyross: It actually would be surprising for the bootloader to be able to read from an SD card. Nov 06 23:45:42 umdk1d3, hmm, that sounds right Nov 06 23:45:46 if you screw up the system to the point recovery doesn't work, you have a permanent brick. Nov 06 23:45:51 ttuttle: ok, well, the crash in the music player is probably much more critical. send me an e-mail with the logcat or something and i will definitely take a look Nov 06 23:46:03 jasta: okay. Nov 06 23:46:08 * andyross wonders if TMO has a setup for factory-reflashing phones... Nov 06 23:46:28 andyross, yeah, but they probably charge you ~$399.00 :) Nov 06 23:46:30 also, if all you have is recovery and an update image, that image will only install if it can still recognize the prerequisite version. Nov 06 23:46:33 somehow I suspect it involves sending it to HTC's factory in taiwan Nov 06 23:46:39 okay, new, unrelated question! Nov 06 23:46:40 jasta any idea about my question about javax.sound ? Nov 06 23:46:51 can i update repo from repo? Nov 06 23:47:00 umdk1d3, weight="1" was exactly what I wanted it Nov 06 23:47:07 theCarpenter, eh? Nov 06 23:47:12 Isn't repo just a single shell script? Nov 06 23:47:18 http://groups.google.com/group/tunedroid/browse_thread/thread/264c210ddfe3f16c Nov 06 23:47:21 d0nets: there is no equivalent to that package space in Android. only very limited media capabilities exist in Android. Nov 06 23:47:29 it says ... A new repo command ( 1.7) is available. Nov 06 23:47:30 ... You should upgrade soon: Nov 06 23:47:34 d0nets: see MediaPlayer. if it cannot do what you need, then you're sol. Nov 06 23:47:45 theCarpenter: in fact it almost auto-updates itself - when it finds there's a new version of itself it'll ask you to install the new version in the right place. Nov 06 23:47:50 jasta: dalvik/libcore-disabled/sound/src/main/java/javax/sound Nov 06 23:47:53 Right, but the instructions for installing repo are just fetching a single script of a web server. Nov 06 23:48:07 shiese Nov 06 23:48:07 Heh, even simpler :) Nov 06 23:48:34 what fadden said. the code isn't yet done enough to be part of a stable API, but we did make a go at it Nov 06 23:48:36 fadden whats that mean? Nov 06 23:48:58 you are welcome to contribute high quality patches towards making it a real, usable part of the platform Nov 06 23:49:10 d0nets: see danfuzz ^^ Nov 06 23:49:17 fadden: do you know that this actually works? it's undocumented/private. Nov 06 23:49:37 it most assuredly *doesn't* work, at least not completely Nov 06 23:49:44 jasta: this API is part of Java SE so you can lookup docs and examples for Java SE Nov 06 23:49:53 and it isn't included on any device builds YET Nov 06 23:49:58 that too :) Nov 06 23:50:10 anyone compiled the iptables userspace for the g1 yet? Nov 06 23:50:11 should it mature, it almost certainly will be included Nov 06 23:50:20 http://pastebin.com/f1165ec83 Nov 06 23:50:31 theres the code that uses it Nov 06 23:50:42 it's not a particularly high priority inside the android team, but again we will happily accept good patches Nov 06 23:50:51 any idears if it is possible to do at this point? Nov 06 23:51:17 There's a AudioTrack/AudioRecord C++ API in there which does callback-based mixing of streams. I haven't gotten around to trying it yet. Nov 06 23:51:20 spikebike: It's next on my list. Let me know if you find a binary before I create one. Nov 06 23:51:30 will do Nov 06 23:52:23 d0nets: there's no javax.sound.* in the 1.0 API, so no that code won't work Nov 06 23:52:52 well right Nov 06 23:53:02 but is there a way to do what the app needs to , with what is available? Nov 06 23:53:24 sorry, i don't know off-hand. Nov 06 23:53:42 mail the android-development list maybe? Nov 06 23:54:20 d0nets: what are the requirements again? Like I said, the native libraries seem to have a reasonably streaming interface (it does a copy over IPC instead of mapping shared buffers, I think, so not perfect, but not bad either) Nov 06 23:54:24 andyross, I was just wondering about that... no way to do that from java is there? Nov 06 23:54:47 Not that I found, no. Nov 06 23:55:16 I have two different ideas that involve being able to process sampled audio in real time, and another generating audio.... in both cases it looks like I have to write to a file first :-( Nov 06 23:55:31 Or do JNI. It's really not so hard. Nov 06 23:56:08 Assuming, that is, that AudioTrack works the way I think it does and doesn't have bugs. Again, I haven't done anything but read source code. Nov 06 23:56:31 andyross im nto sure Nov 06 23:56:36 im still learning java Nov 06 23:56:37 lol Nov 06 23:56:54 im just trying to port and it was throwing errors about the javax.sound Nov 06 23:57:48 andyross, yeah... something like that would be necessary for more advanced games too, rather than just playing samples Nov 06 23:58:15 it sounds like AudioTrack is what MediaPlayer uses, cause you can play multiple audio files concurrently right now Nov 06 23:59:47 Yeah, the architecture seems to be a fairly typical sound server. You make binder calls into it to register your AudioTrack object, then it calls back into your process periodically to fill buffers. AFAICT, the buffer is actually copied over the IPC though, which is unfortunate. But I'm hardly an expert here. Nov 07 00:01:23 where is this "AudioTrack" you speak of tweakt? Nov 07 00:03:41 I would expect the Java APIs get expanded in later releases Nov 07 00:06:11 well shiese, i just want a guitar tuner Nov 07 00:06:18 im tired of using this app on my laptop Nov 07 00:06:26 its java, i wanna port to android Nov 07 00:06:50 i guess ill just wait for splashplay Nov 07 00:06:56 they are supposed to release a guitar version Nov 07 00:07:01 but not till 2009 Nov 07 00:07:04 AudioTrack is a C++ class, it's not in the official API. Nov 07 00:07:12 oh Nov 07 00:08:13 lol im in class and we just spend 15 mins talking about open source and how people dedicate their time to give us free crap Nov 07 00:08:41 * danfuzz is dedicated to YOU Nov 07 00:08:56 lol Nov 07 00:09:46 and do you ever send me flowers or chocolate? Nov 07 00:09:49 alas Nov 07 00:10:30 lol Nov 07 00:10:32 "import javax.sound.sampled.AudioFormat;" Nov 07 00:11:04 what about setAudioStreamType(int) Nov 07 00:11:18 in media player Nov 07 00:12:11 nevermind, i dunno what im talking aboot Nov 07 00:16:03 damn invisible shield is hard as fuq to install, took me an hr lol Nov 07 00:26:27 damnit Nov 07 00:26:42 all of the open java tuners i have found use javax.sound Nov 07 00:31:05 hi, has anyone taken a look at the fbreaderj source? Nov 07 00:36:17 hrmm, the barcode reader can't read complex qrcodes with text Nov 07 00:36:25 can you? Nov 07 00:36:26 just seems with urls or phone numbers Nov 07 00:37:15 anyway, bedtime Nov 07 00:41:13 anyone have experience w/ using getChangingConfigurations on the Activity? Nov 07 00:41:13 alright, if I install version 1 of my app via Market, adb install -r MyApp.apk should run my contentprovider's onUpgrade() right? Nov 07 00:54:23 Can MediaRecorder save audio to .WAV format? Nov 07 00:55:07 All I see is DEFAULT and 3GPP ? Nov 07 00:55:07 lols @ GRAVITY_DEATH_STAR_I Nov 07 00:55:19 oyeoj, heh, yeah I spotted that too ;-) Nov 07 00:55:58 that whole file is hilarious Nov 07 00:56:14 int SENSOR_TRICORDER Nov 07 00:56:49 i guess i could handle edge-cases for when android phones are not used on earth Nov 07 00:57:58 cool irc on the G1 nicely Nov 07 00:58:15 anyone taking Nov 07 00:58:25 what are you using? Nov 07 00:58:50 jmirc Nov 07 00:59:07 working great Nov 07 00:59:43 how does Android detect when it needs to upgrade the database? Nov 07 01:00:02 hmm, I'd been using ConnectBot to my home system, and a console IRC client there running from screen Nov 07 01:00:20 it's nice cause I can disconnect/reconnect but remain signed in Nov 07 01:02:28 cool tried to get the worpress app to install Nov 07 01:03:00 wayne: Yeah it appears to have a busted manifest Nov 07 01:03:02 I reported it Nov 07 01:03:12 Actually the manifest is a db file of some kind. Some wires must have been crossed Nov 07 01:04:05 shame i had problems using the browser to write blogs with wordpress but sussed it now Nov 07 01:04:11 since I can only download a zip of the source code for the eclipse plugin, how do I go about checking in my changes? Nov 07 01:08:35 herriojr, work for google? :) Nov 07 01:08:58 you'd have to submit a patch and see if they accept it Nov 07 01:09:12 ls Nov 07 01:13:20 hm Nov 07 01:13:23 init.goldfish.rc? Nov 07 01:13:46 different phone/platform Nov 07 01:13:48 it's not run Nov 07 01:13:53 g1=trout Nov 07 01:13:58 goldish is somehting else Nov 07 01:14:31 with wifimanager.startScan(), what is the callback method when its done? the docs seem vague Nov 07 01:17:30 what's the correct way to import an android app source tree as an eclipse package? Nov 07 01:20:43 wastrel: I've been wondering that too... Nov 07 01:21:39 well you don't use the SDK :) Nov 07 01:21:41 wastrel: you can do a standard "new project from existing source" if the app doesn't use any internal/hidden APIs Nov 07 01:21:57 just don't use the SDK Nov 07 01:22:11 compile and deploying an app from the tree is really easy from the shell Nov 07 01:22:13 just type: Nov 07 01:22:18 mmm path/to/app && adb sync Nov 07 01:22:42 you named a command mmm Nov 07 01:22:56 yeah Nov 07 01:22:58 m Nov 07 01:22:58 mm Nov 07 01:22:59 and mmm Nov 07 01:23:03 m is just make Nov 07 01:23:13 mmm apps/donuts Nov 07 01:23:14 mm is make for the makefile in the currenct directory Nov 07 01:23:19 (m is for the entire tree) Nov 07 01:23:23 and mmm is to make a specific path Nov 07 01:23:35 it also means yummy Nov 07 01:23:37 mmm Nov 07 01:23:41 actually the command I usually use is mmm path/app snod && adb sync Nov 07 01:23:48 KNY: I don't want to work for google Nov 07 01:23:53 snod will recreate the system.img for flashing/the emulator Nov 07 01:23:58 i thought that was mmmm Nov 07 01:23:59 excuse me for asking, but is there direct access to the shell from the g1 phone? Nov 07 01:24:22 sfuentes: there's an app in the market called "Terminal Emulator" Nov 07 01:24:24 sfuentes, there (is? was?) an exploit to get it Nov 07 01:24:28 is Nov 07 01:24:30 sfuentes: no, but there's an app Nov 07 01:24:41 awesome Nov 07 01:24:55 sfuentes: unless you root the phone, you don't have much access to anything Nov 07 01:25:06 i cant figure out what user i am in the term tho Nov 07 01:25:12 whoami is permission denied Nov 07 01:25:22 id Nov 07 01:25:28 oyeoj: look for the root hack, it's really simple Nov 07 01:25:39 but most likely future updates will remove access, right? Nov 07 01:26:05 hmm id 10049 Nov 07 01:26:17 they're still not finished rolling out the first update so you have some time Nov 07 01:27:22 sfuentes: updates are unencrypted. so rehack it and apply by hand. Nov 07 01:27:43 anyone try my dropbear patch yet? Nov 07 01:27:44 anyone know if it's possible or if anyone is working on another language targeting the dalvik vm byte code? Nov 07 01:28:08 drop bear is a koala Nov 07 01:29:43 sfuentes: you should be able to make a compiler to translate to dalvik vm byte code Nov 07 01:30:01 sfuentes: but there is really no practical reason to do it Nov 07 01:30:24 sfuentes: have you tried converting the byteccode from other JVM based languages? Nov 07 01:30:40 (yay beer, wifi and wings :) ..) Nov 07 01:30:57 IIRC, dx just converts JVM bytecode to Dalvik Nov 07 01:31:37 so things like JRuby, JPython, and Scala could theoretically work on Android if they don't use Java SE libraries Nov 07 01:32:16 they can work even if they use Java SE libraries Nov 07 01:32:19 well Nov 07 01:32:21 at least some of them :) Nov 07 01:32:48 romainguy: well, I meant at runtime Nov 07 01:33:04 not the compiler/interpreters themselves Nov 07 01:33:13 bah Nov 07 01:33:18 that came out wrong Nov 07 01:33:28 some gen bytecode live. non startet on g1 Nov 07 01:33:41 non starter that is Nov 07 01:34:47 dx runs on the dev environment, right? Nov 07 01:34:56 ya sdk Nov 07 01:35:11 Adamant: I got what you mean :) Nov 07 01:36:33 anyone use a LocationListener? Nov 07 01:36:41 so we would need to create a subset of jython to have it run on dalvik then Nov 07 01:36:48 z6ck: yeah Nov 07 01:37:00 zhobbs: did you have to use a Looper? Nov 07 01:37:14 I know that Scala can run on Android Nov 07 01:37:25 sfuentes: prot to gen dalvik bytecode Nov 07 01:37:31 romainguy: is it slow as heck? Nov 07 01:37:48 Adamant: no idea Nov 07 01:37:55 but Scala has a java compiler doesn't it? Nov 07 01:38:02 right Nov 07 01:38:07 it compiles to JVM bytecode Nov 07 01:38:13 so it's probably this they us Nov 07 01:38:14 actually Nov 07 01:38:18 z6ck: I don't think you should ever use Looper Nov 07 01:38:27 I think it emits Java which is compiled to JVM bytecode Nov 07 01:39:38 so technically it seems dalvik vm has nothing to do with java Nov 07 01:39:47 zhobbs: i setup a listener but onLocationChange() never seems to get called. Nov 07 01:39:47 dx on the other does Nov 07 01:39:57 something odd with the emulator? Nov 07 01:40:34 z6ck: yeah, don't think the emulator has location providers anymore Nov 07 01:41:22 zhobbs: ah that would explain it. i guess i'll test on my phone. (scary!) Nov 07 01:41:27 thanks Nov 07 01:41:40 z6ck, you can emulate location via adb Nov 07 01:42:13 is it possible to load apps directly into your g1 phone without using android market? Nov 07 01:42:27 KNY: yeah, but I don't think the emulator has sample location providers built in anymore Nov 07 01:42:27 browser or adb Nov 07 01:42:39 or alt markets Nov 07 01:42:42 zhobbs, nope, but they added adb functionality Nov 07 01:42:58 nice Nov 07 01:44:16 yar Nov 07 01:44:50 woo! it works Nov 07 01:44:54 sweeet Nov 07 01:44:57 avast ye dogs, my ale be gone! Nov 07 01:45:07 oh noes! Nov 07 01:45:37 so anywho, back to what I was doing before I was rudely inturrupted by sleep and then work Nov 07 01:45:44 lol Nov 07 01:45:48 oops I didnt put in a way to turn it off ;\ Nov 07 01:47:24 thats bad Nov 07 01:48:12 ok everyone can relax, the wench brought me a new beer. (www.duclaw.com) Nov 07 01:50:25 * JairunCaloth demands a beer Nov 07 01:51:06 would be interesting to see an app that has a database of all stores with a liquor license. Nov 07 01:51:25 then with the press of a button provies you a list / map of the closest. Nov 07 01:51:26 lol Nov 07 01:51:44 there is a brewpub maps mashup out there Nov 07 01:51:50 not as an app tho Nov 07 01:52:24 coors should've put out that app instead of that stupid accelerometer one. Nov 07 01:52:53 i may be in the onlt non 3g duclaw :( but its got decent wifi :) Nov 07 01:53:05 coors app? Nov 07 01:53:39 virtual beer. Nov 07 01:54:45 gary dude give up.. seriously.. Nov 07 01:54:57 Gary|tp: dude give up.. seriously.. Nov 07 01:55:20 high Nov 07 01:55:36 anyone know alot aboot the android.media.MediaPlayer api? Nov 07 01:55:44 no just a little buzzed why? :) Nov 07 01:56:05 are the tabs in eg the contacts app part of a public view? Nov 07 01:56:05 d0nets: jasta would. Nov 07 01:56:12 i was talking to him earlier Nov 07 01:56:23 i think i have bugged him enough though Nov 07 01:56:41 he spent a day helping me build his app lol Nov 07 01:57:26 he lives for dumb questions (kidding :) ..) Nov 07 01:57:27 does a LocationListener _stay_ connected or do I have to reconnect it every time the locationmanager calls me back? Nov 07 01:58:13 Hi Nov 07 01:58:24 is there a way to set focus on a Button? myBtn.requestFocus() doesn't seem to work Nov 07 01:59:24 Hi!!! Nov 07 01:59:25 i tried to price my beer but the barcode reader doesn't like foam :( Nov 07 01:59:45 Hello guys, I wanted to install pac-man from the android market, but its telling me I have to pay. But there is no option for paying? Nov 07 02:00:18 rami, the one from namco? I installed that and it never asked/told me to pay Nov 07 02:00:58 KNY, yes it's from Namco Nov 07 02:01:04 weird Nov 07 02:01:46 I keep reading about these apps online, but can't find them in the market. Are there any apps yanked out of the market? Nov 07 02:02:26 btw I am not on T-Mobile...will that make a difference? Nov 07 02:02:49 no Nov 07 02:03:45 ok what about iskoot? I can't find it in the market Nov 07 02:03:57 rami, did you try searching? Nov 07 02:04:18 yes, actually search never worked...it instantly gives me no result Nov 07 02:04:22 sorry if that came across wrong, but just figured I'd ask the obvious Nov 07 02:04:25 hmm Nov 07 02:05:14 Does it matter if I am trying from wireless or 3g? Nov 07 02:05:46 I've only ever tried it on EDGE Nov 07 02:05:48 wireless might be better Nov 07 02:05:55 no 3G here and I just haven't tried wifi yet Nov 07 02:06:47 rami: what do u mean ur not on t-mobile? Nov 07 02:07:28 sfuentes, am in saudi arabia Nov 07 02:07:38 sfuentes, using my own carrier Nov 07 02:07:47 sfuentes: his english is good. he means he's not a tmob customer. Nov 07 02:07:49 do you have an unlocked phone? Nov 07 02:08:15 KNY, lol yes of course :) Nov 07 02:08:23 i didn't know android phones outside of t-mob were available Nov 07 02:08:23 * Dis_G1 got unlocked by calling 611 and saying 'can i have my code?' Nov 07 02:08:34 Dis_G1, lol man Nov 07 02:08:49 sfuentes, if you are an existing tmo customer and in good standing and ask nicely, some CSRs will give you the unlokc code Nov 07 02:08:49 sfuentes, its unlocked.... Nov 07 02:08:52 unlock* Nov 07 02:08:55 sfuentes, same as yours Nov 07 02:09:47 and u can then use it with any carrier??? Nov 07 02:09:55 yes Nov 07 02:09:56 sfuentes, yes :) Nov 07 02:10:01 omfg Nov 07 02:10:13 sfuentes, I tested it on 2 carriers out of 3 over here in Saudi Arabia Nov 07 02:10:28 sorry but i got excited there for a min Nov 07 02:11:17 so there's nothing special about that so called "g1 service"? Nov 07 02:11:28 it's just unlimited data + 3g? Nov 07 02:11:34 sfuentes, yeah Nov 07 02:11:52 sfuentes, nope, my plan 25$ for 1 GB per month Nov 07 02:11:58 tmo just doesn't want people using their $5.99 data plan with the g1 :) Nov 07 02:13:01 damn corporate vamps! Nov 07 02:13:04 A lot of people complaining about Pac-Man and the need to pay, didn't find an answer though Nov 07 02:13:47 so at&t has best 3g service right now? Nov 07 02:14:59 so what excuse can i use to say i need my unlock code? Nov 07 02:16:38 You can pay 20 bucks and unlock it Nov 07 02:18:59 sfuentes, tell them you're visiting relatives in Canada, maybe? Nov 07 02:19:21 sfuentes: wont be able to use 3G with the G1 even if you unlocked it. Nov 07 02:19:59 ok so the 3g service is tied to t-mob then Nov 07 02:20:20 KNY: sounds like a good excuse Nov 07 02:20:27 sfuentes, no it's just the frequencies of ATT are different Nov 07 02:20:36 3G is working just fine over here in Saudi Nov 07 02:20:38 sfuentes, especially since we (the US) are coming up on a holiday Nov 07 02:20:58 3G with what device? Nov 07 02:21:15 spikebike, G1 Nov 07 02:21:22 in saudi? Nov 07 02:21:37 spikebike, yes Nov 07 02:21:38 rami: how did u get the right freq? Nov 07 02:22:02 gsm is magic like that Nov 07 02:22:07 weird, I thought the frequencies were unique to usa Nov 07 02:22:14 sfuentes, it just worked...unless I am just getting a G icon but not reall 3G Nov 07 02:22:15 well gsm should... not surprising at all Nov 07 02:22:18 3g on the other hand Nov 07 02:22:31 oh G = GPRS I think Nov 07 02:22:35 if you have the icon you are good Nov 07 02:22:36 run a bandwidth test Nov 07 02:22:42 ooh yah Nov 07 02:22:44 aight Nov 07 02:22:56 3g is a '3g' icon Nov 07 02:23:14 dslreports.com/mspeed Nov 07 02:23:29 actually the icon is 3G Nov 07 02:23:31 there's a speedtest app in the market Nov 07 02:23:55 KNY: it wants gps. screw that. Nov 07 02:24:06 speed 582.70795 KBPS ;) Nov 07 02:24:16 I think am good :) Nov 07 02:24:17 Dis_G1, I used it inside without problems Nov 07 02:24:59 do you have the wifi symbol? Nov 07 02:25:21 I disabled wifi. Lol what do you take me for :P Nov 07 02:25:32 heh Nov 07 02:27:19 bbl all. or tomorrow. meh. Nov 07 02:28:05 looks like getting the t-mob contract and then breaking the contract is cheaper than buying the phone at retail price Nov 07 02:28:23 heh Nov 07 02:28:32 what is teh early termination fee? Nov 07 02:28:32 ok guys, still nobody answered me. Are their applications pulled out of the market? I mean I read about I-skoot, toodo and a couple others that I can't find?? Nov 07 02:28:43 But what service would you use the phone with if not t mobile? Nov 07 02:28:49 rami some are USA only Nov 07 02:28:52 like iskoot Nov 07 02:29:09 spikebike, aha, Pac-Man? Nov 07 02:29:14 maybe Nov 07 02:29:40 but surely there is a hack ya? Nov 07 02:30:06 ya pacman is still there Nov 07 02:30:19 its asking me to pay for pacman Nov 07 02:30:29 namco prolly has the rights Nov 07 02:30:32 how much is it? Nov 07 02:30:55 doesn't really say, I don't mind paying, but I don't get any buy button or anything Nov 07 02:31:06 <`vip_> can i uninstall the tmobile myfaves app ?? Nov 07 02:31:13 spikebike: early term fee is 200 Nov 07 02:31:13 So can I buy a G1 online from the T-Mobile website at the 399 price? Nov 07 02:31:30 <`vip_> yeah or on the phone, kRutOn Nov 07 02:31:44 not last I heard... currently you have to sweettalk a t-mobile clerk Nov 07 02:31:59 sfuentes ah Nov 07 02:32:35 Any other providers you can use the phone with? Nov 07 02:32:35 spikebike: early term fee is 200 + 180 g1 phone (after discounts) = 380 bucks ... not much savings though Nov 07 02:32:47 kRutOn, yeah, you can get them online without a contract Nov 07 02:32:56 kny: From the T-Mobile website or just eBay? Nov 07 02:32:56 you probably also don't pay sales tax on the 200. ;) Nov 07 02:33:00 sfuentes, it's going to be $150 at walmart Nov 07 02:33:04 sfuentes: you need to count the activation fee as well. Nov 07 02:33:05 kRutOn, t-mobile Nov 07 02:33:11 kny with cotnract Nov 07 02:33:14 KNY: I can't find a way to do it on their website. Nov 07 02:33:27 spikebike, yeah, that's what we're talking about--buying and cancelling, no? Nov 07 02:33:45 they might have different terms Nov 07 02:33:52 true Nov 07 02:34:16 wasabi: dammit!! Nov 07 02:34:23 wasabi: depends on what you mean by use it on another network Nov 07 02:34:31 Either they have cleverly hidden the option to buy without a plan or I'm blind. Nov 07 02:34:34 3g Nov 07 02:34:37 obviously Nov 07 02:34:40 kRutOn, i'm not sure, but I got mine without a contract Nov 07 02:34:43 anything else is useles Nov 07 02:34:49 at this point no Nov 07 02:34:49 kruton requires sweet talking a sales folk Nov 07 02:34:52 though I went into a store--you don't need a t-mobile account with them, AFAIK Nov 07 02:34:53 jbq_: how much we talkin? Nov 07 02:35:10 I have $35 in mind, I might be wrong on that. Nov 07 02:35:19 and I don't have 3g and still find the phone very useful Nov 07 02:35:29 I went to a T-Mobile store and the guy there was like 'You can only buy the G1 online and no stores have it.' Nov 07 02:35:40 Must be typical T-Mobile run-around. Nov 07 02:35:46 kruton only the "enterprise" stores have it Nov 07 02:35:53 Hi All!, does anyone know How to get the position of a specific element in a spinner based on the element's text? Nov 07 02:36:00 they have a different symbol in the store search Nov 07 02:36:06 what?? Nov 07 02:36:14 spikebike: Do the Enterprise stores have NCC-1701 stenciled on the outside of them? Nov 07 02:36:23 spikebike: i've seen t-mob booths with it Nov 07 02:36:28 i await an android device on another network Nov 07 02:36:28 sigh Nov 07 02:36:41 well the best supply anyways Nov 07 02:36:46 wasabi: that's what i said about 1month ago :D Nov 07 02:37:05 who's next anyway? sprint? Nov 07 02:37:06 there's 2 devices due by xmas Nov 07 02:37:15 reallyy... Nov 07 02:37:26 wonders if its worth waiting Nov 07 02:37:28 really spikebike? who's? what network? Nov 07 02:37:34 Whose devices? Nov 07 02:37:36 Are they HTC or others? Nov 07 02:37:45 I like the G1, actually. Saw it in the store a few minutes ago. Nov 07 02:37:47 spikebike: I went to one that has a red T to the left of it on their store search :-/ Nov 07 02:37:49 Just I'd like AT&T Nov 07 02:37:56 (can get a free plan with them through work) Nov 07 02:38:01 spikebike: It says it's a "T-Mobile Owned Location" Nov 07 02:38:02 freerunner and some strange .au phone Nov 07 02:38:34 spikebike: are u an insider? :) Nov 07 02:38:45 freerunner, yeah, saw they had some rudimentary success already Nov 07 02:38:49 anyone ever used a KeyListener on their apps? Nov 07 02:38:59 but that's far from being completely working from what I read Nov 07 02:39:21 yeah the pink T locations Nov 07 02:39:26 I bought 2 at the one near my house Nov 07 02:39:36 kslater, the hardware is pretty solid but the software stack was pretty pitiful Nov 07 02:39:38 spikebike: I guess I'll try a different pink T location Nov 07 02:39:41 hopefully android solves that Nov 07 02:40:11 spikebike: u bought 2 g1s? Nov 07 02:40:59 ya Nov 07 02:41:06 I've managed to extend my exchange period to 30 days from 14, since the store don't have Brown. I told them that I'd cancel my contract if they don't exchange it :D Nov 07 02:41:18 Amitava, haha Nov 07 02:41:36 heh in california they change it to 30 as you sign Nov 07 02:41:37 anyone want a new t-mo sim? Nov 07 02:41:37 Im pissed of with that cracking screen :( Nov 07 02:41:59 the sales guy put one in for free and the phone came with one... and I already had one Nov 07 02:43:28 anyone looked at the fbreader (ebook reader) source? Nov 07 02:43:49 a little Nov 07 02:43:53 Amitava, what cracking screen? Nov 07 02:44:27 spikebike: yeah? did you build it? Nov 07 02:44:38 KNY: the famous creaking screen? it makes those weird noice when you press on screen as if its broken Nov 07 02:44:48 my screen creaks Nov 07 02:44:53 ahh, creaking.. that takes 10 seconds to fix Nov 07 02:45:07 nah, I poked around a bit, was considerign some tweaks for the n800 Nov 07 02:45:17 ended up just installing the binary Nov 07 02:45:22 it's a rather nice app Nov 07 02:45:28 it works for you? Nov 07 02:45:34 wastrel, yes Nov 07 02:45:35 it hans opening books for me Nov 07 02:45:36 hangs Nov 07 02:45:49 oh, I was talking about the creaking :) sorry Nov 07 02:46:05 creaking oh what's the fix? Nov 07 02:46:05 I'd rather have the brown one. Hopefully the white one comes within 23rd. Nov 07 02:46:07 oh? Nov 07 02:46:18 I got one brown and one black Nov 07 02:46:26 2? Nov 07 02:46:33 wastrel, above the END button, there's a tiny plastic nub where the screen touches the body.. right next to the hinge Nov 07 02:46:35 never had a problem with fbreader Nov 07 02:46:38 spikebike: yeah what format books are you using? also are they full length novels or short? Nov 07 02:46:39 take a razor and slice it off Nov 07 02:46:53 KNY: didn't work Nov 07 02:46:57 I read dunno 10-20 books Nov 07 02:47:05 some txt, I think some pdf Nov 07 02:47:21 Amitava, you tried it? Nov 07 02:47:40 see this: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f10/diy-creak-fix-4596/ Nov 07 02:47:48 KNY: yes. as in androidcommunity. Nov 07 02:47:58 interesting Nov 07 02:48:02 worked perfectly for me Nov 07 02:48:28 you mean that ridge there Nov 07 02:48:35 yeah Nov 07 02:48:37 the tiny one Nov 07 02:49:05 just take a razor or exacto knife and slice it off Nov 07 02:49:28 I know it's because of friction between sliding screen and body but it's not that part. Nov 07 02:49:39 Amitava, that's what it was on mine Nov 07 02:49:43 does anyone know how i can scroll up in irssi. pgup and pgdown arent an option as i'm on my G1. Nov 07 02:50:40 KNY: I don't have that protruding part. Mine is smooth. Nov 07 02:50:52 you can send pgup it's a up then down on the screen Nov 07 02:50:55 gesture Nov 07 02:51:13 something like that iirc Nov 07 02:51:17 itech left edge Nov 07 02:51:24 swipe up or down Nov 07 02:51:31 ah Nov 07 02:51:39 Amitava, it's riiiiight next to the hinge part. it was pretty hard to see without a flashlight on mine Nov 07 02:51:58 right edge is scroll up/down, doesn't work well with irssi Nov 07 02:52:12 spikebike: thanks bro thats what i needed! Nov 07 02:53:07 i love this phone lol Nov 07 02:53:08 cute i like the usb notification in the new firmware Nov 07 02:53:18 I hate it Nov 07 02:53:32 they do the timing wrong or something so it doesn't automount after I say yes Nov 07 02:54:00 spikebike: i havent had that problem yet... Nov 07 02:54:15 might be ubuntu specific Nov 07 02:54:30 works just fine on my intrepix Nov 07 02:54:39 spikebike: i use that. mounts mine right up Nov 07 02:55:02 ahh i'm using epub format books Nov 07 02:55:21 which is apparently zipped Nov 07 02:55:31 spikebike, did you set up ubuntu? Nov 07 02:55:32 I like that the Term app has 58 ratings in the Market, and "< 50 downloads" Nov 07 02:55:35 and fbreaderj docs mention there's a problem with opening zips. Nov 07 02:55:51 spikebike, I had to configure some stuff before that worked--now it opens fspot right away Nov 07 02:56:20 zhobbs: yea saw that in market, looks like google hasnt pulled it yet Nov 07 02:56:31 umdk1d3: why would they pull it? Nov 07 02:56:40 yeah, I was wondering that Nov 07 02:57:11 zhobbs: lol after all the trouble we went through to install it on mine and it comes out a day later lol. Nov 07 02:57:31 ITechJunkie: heh, well someone else was having the same prob as you so I just stuck it on the Market Nov 07 02:57:58 zhobbs - what app? Nov 07 02:58:05 hate to be a repeat, but anyone ever used a KeyListener in their app? Nov 07 02:58:08 zhobbs: right on. did ya ever find out what it was? Nov 07 02:58:09 RyeBrye, Term.apk Nov 07 02:58:12 ah Nov 07 02:58:13 RyeBrye: I just posed Google's Term.apk to the Market Nov 07 02:58:17 posted* Nov 07 02:58:34 You should have waited until you could sell it :) Nov 07 02:58:41 hehe Nov 07 02:58:53 what's the ETA on payment? anyone heard? Nov 07 02:59:35 is there a way to partially extract a zip file? Nov 07 02:59:43 partially extract? Nov 07 02:59:45 can you seek in a zip file? Nov 07 02:59:48 yeah Nov 07 02:59:52 itech/kny was just using default ubuntu 8.04, no config... used to just work **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 07 02:59:57 2008