**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 10 02:59:57 2008
Nov 10 03:00:39 <orci> hi, which one depletes the battery faster? 3G or WI-FI?
Nov 10 03:02:17 <SplasPood> wi-fi i'd guess
Nov 10 03:02:28 <SplasPood> as it was not specifically designed with cell phones in mind
Nov 10 03:03:55 <spikebike> seems like 3g to me
Nov 10 03:04:38 <orci> I read some places 3g depletes faster but not sure if the source is right
Nov 10 03:05:03 <orci> it was saying 3g depletes much faster
Nov 10 03:05:52 <spikebike> a few hours of wifi doesn't seem to have much effect on my battery
Nov 10 03:06:42 <orci> spikebike, active use or standby
Nov 10 03:07:14 <spikebike> similar use in both case
Nov 10 03:07:16 <spikebike> ss
Nov 10 03:07:19 <spikebike> I don't max out either
Nov 10 03:07:45 <orci> spikebike, do you leave wifi radio open when you are on the road as well?
Nov 10 03:07:59 <spikebike> no
Nov 10 03:08:09 <orci> I'd think that might deplete more than steady wifi connection
Nov 10 03:08:20 <SplasPood> has anyone put together a script to split out the kernel and ramdisk from the single boot image?
Nov 10 03:08:47 <orci> I wish I could put shortcuts to settings, such as things like enabling disabling wifi radi
Nov 10 03:09:05 <SplasPood> oh nm this thread has one
Nov 10 03:09:23 <SplasPood> orci: Any Cut prolly lets ya, but there was an app on the marketplace to turn on/off wifi, etxc
Nov 10 03:09:26 <jammr> orci the toggle app?
Nov 10 03:09:36 <SplasPood> yea.. the toggle app
Nov 10 03:10:18 <orci> cool, I'll check toggle app
Nov 10 03:10:20 <mikez5> spikebike, orci:  The wifi shuts off after a few minutes if you aren't using the phone.
Nov 10 03:10:51 <orci> mikez5, eg does not?
Nov 10 03:10:57 <orci> mikez5, 3g
Nov 10 03:11:39 <mikez5> I'm not sure if 3G drops down to edge or not.
Nov 10 03:12:30 <orci> mikez5, what happens to e-mail check/hour for example if wifi radio goes off? does it come up and go down again after a check?
Nov 10 03:12:50 <mikez5> But you might have noticed that if you let the screen turn off for a while and then wake it back up, it takes a few seconds for the edge icon turn off and the wifi icon to turn back on.
Nov 10 03:13:36 <mikez5> It will switch from wifi to edge or 3G after awhile, and things like gmail and IM will use that instead.
Nov 10 03:13:50 <mikez5> But there is a way to force Wifi to stay on (amazon uses it).
Nov 10 03:14:02 <wastrel> i have noticed that
Nov 10 03:14:14 <mikez5> sorry I'm not that clear on the details though.
Nov 10 03:32:29 * ahaberlacho yawns.
Nov 10 03:33:02 <alansj> wow, the ddms tool is cool
Nov 10 03:33:30 <SplasPood> nice, hacked up my first boot.img
Nov 10 03:33:36 <SplasPood> alansj: yea?
Nov 10 03:33:46 <jammr> Aside from the google docs, does anyone have a good source of beginner info?
Nov 10 03:33:48 <alansj> yeah, gives you all sort of phone status
Nov 10 03:33:56 <alansj> SplasPood: did you use my tutorial?
Nov 10 03:33:58 <jammr> Moving from C -> Java has been painful
Nov 10 03:34:02 <SplasPood> alansj: yup!
Nov 10 03:34:09 <alansj> anything confusing/missing?
Nov 10 03:34:27 <SplasPood> alansj: do you even mention the two perl scripts?
Nov 10 03:34:37 <alansj> yeah, but maybe I should make that more prominent
Nov 10 03:34:59 <SplasPood> your scripts don't like the OS X cpio either, it seems ;)
Nov 10 03:35:22 <tmzt> cpio?
Nov 10 03:35:30 <SplasPood> you're probably better off just sticking the image in /dev/recovery.img and rebooting. When creating your own custom up
Nov 10 03:35:35 <SplasPood> that's a typo I figure
Nov 10 03:35:38 <SplasPood>  /dev/recovery.img
Nov 10 03:35:46 * ahaberlacho yawns.
Nov 10 03:35:51 <ahaberlacho> Oh wait, I already did that.
Nov 10 03:36:00 <tmzt> must be tired
Nov 10 03:36:18 <ahaberlacho> Yep.  I just spent two hours trying to get my daughter to sleep.
Nov 10 03:36:22 <alansj> oop, good catch
Nov 10 03:38:09 <Damm> jasta, btw, your email patches sent upstream?
Nov 10 03:39:21 * Damm is tired of broken K9mail.
Nov 10 03:39:22 <SplasPood> Now I just need to find some artistic skill so I can make my own startup logo
Nov 10 03:40:03 <ITechJunkie> Hey guys, what all does it take to run android on another phone. I'd like to put it on the HTC Excalibur (Tmobile Dash).
Nov 10 03:40:15 <Damm> ITechJunkie, not likely
Nov 10 03:40:30 <ITechJunkie> Damm: Bummer why not?
Nov 10 03:40:55 <tmzt> ITechJunkie: they apparently have it running on there, but I don't know how well it's working, and it's not the release (1.0)
Nov 10 03:41:27 <Damm> ITechJunkie, technically speaking you'd have to overwrite the booatloader for one, once you get past that hurdle... the rest is fairly easy
Nov 10 03:41:58 <tmzt> well, they are booting from ce with haret now, but there is a sd bootloader for omap devices like excalibur
Nov 10 03:42:07 <enterusername> Ya. I'm using it on a vogue
Nov 10 03:42:08 <enterusername> :)
Nov 10 03:42:30 <enterusername> though all i did was install it
Nov 10 03:42:59 <Damm> don't recall what did the vogue run?
Nov 10 03:43:07 <ITechJunkie> Damm: Would the fact that it is still an HTC device make it any easier?
Nov 10 03:43:21 <Damm> winmo
Nov 10 03:43:29 <mikez5> The Excalibur uses a totally different chipset than G1.
Nov 10 03:43:36 <ITechJunkie> oh
Nov 10 03:43:40 <Damm> ITechJunkie, *laugh* almost all windows mobile devices are made by HTC.
Nov 10 03:43:50 <Damm> mikez5, correct it's using a TI OMAP or a Samsung, I forget.
Nov 10 03:43:54 <tmzt> well, penguinz in linwizard was working on it, but I haven't seen him for a few days
Nov 10 03:44:06 <ahaberlacho> You probably want to start with the kernel.
Nov 10 03:44:08 <mikez5> we had it running on HW similar to Excalibur, but that was a long time ago.
Nov 10 03:44:25 <tmzt> mikez5: another google person?
Nov 10 03:44:28 <mikez5> Damm: Yes, TI OMAP 850 I think.
Nov 10 03:44:35 <mikez5> yes, google
Nov 10 03:44:37 <ahaberlacho> A little birdy tells me that once upon a time, Android was running on the Excalibur, but I'm not sure what it takes to put a Linux kernel and Android filesystem onto a production device.
Nov 10 03:44:42 <ITechJunkie> hmmm, man I really wish I knew more about this stuff. I'd really like to get into it as indepth as you guys.
Nov 10 03:44:47 <jammr> Can anyone offer resources for someone new to android?
Nov 10 03:44:56 <ahaberlacho> A little birdy named Mike, in fact.
Nov 10 03:45:04 <Damm> ITechJunkie, this isn't really the in depth channel
Nov 10 03:45:08 <Damm> that would be #android-dev
Nov 10 03:45:17 * Slackwise pokes Damm.
Nov 10 03:45:31 <tmzt> there's something in 1.0 that is preventing it from working on other devices, but I don't know what it is.
Nov 10 03:45:40 <Damm> Slackwise, gonna wear a condom next time you poke me?
Nov 10 03:45:41 <ITechJunkie> Damm: I'm kinda worried that most of that would be way over my head. I'd kinda feel stupid being in there asking no brainer questions to those guys lol
Nov 10 03:45:47 <tmzt> some hardware that's not the same I think
Nov 10 03:45:48 <Slackwise> Damm: Yes, sir.
Nov 10 03:46:11 <Damm> ITechJunkie, I would rather see someone ask stupid questions, then assume they know something and look stupid.
Nov 10 03:46:31 <ITechJunkie> Damm: Too true, too true.
Nov 10 03:47:32 <ITechJunkie> Damm: I'd really like to learn how to program for android. Although I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around some of the concepts. I've been reading through the google docs really hard on it trying to understand.
Nov 10 03:48:18 <ITechJunkie> Damm: I've always liked programming but I crippled myself by learning some handicapped language when I first started.
Nov 10 03:48:23 <jammr> ITechJunkie I'm in the same boat as you, going to Java from C has been painful
Nov 10 03:48:41 <Damm> ITechJunkie, what language is that?
Nov 10 03:49:23 <ITechJunkie> Damm: winbatch. Not actual batch programming. It's more like a watered down visual basic. Most people haven't heard of it but my dad showed it to me when I was like 8
Nov 10 03:50:01 <ITechJunkie> jammr: I hear yah man. I was more of a procedural guy too. OOP is pretty cool though.
Nov 10 03:50:24 <ITechJunkie> jammr: just hard to wrap your head around sometimes
Nov 10 03:51:48 <scootley> this is promising: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444004
Nov 10 03:52:52 <Damm> ITechJunkie, ahh
Nov 10 03:53:34 <ITechJunkie> Damm: have you heard of it? Cause you'll be the first person that I've met that has
Nov 10 03:55:06 <orci> scootley, cool
Nov 10 03:59:17 <Damm> ITechJunkie, i recall it vaguely.
Nov 10 03:59:20 <Damm> but that doesn't say much
Nov 10 03:59:47 <ITechJunkie> Still suprising at the very least
Nov 10 04:00:52 * Damm shrugs
Nov 10 04:01:03 <Damm> I remember writing 500 line batch files back in 1993
Nov 10 04:01:22 <ITechJunkie> lol, the good ol days
Nov 10 04:01:34 <Damm> I wrote a upload processor for my BBS, to unarchive the zip(archives) and scan them for viruses, re-pack them tighter...
Nov 10 04:01:46 <Damm> had to make it pretty for the users who had to suffer through it
Nov 10 04:02:41 <ITechJunkie> Fun, how many years have you been programming? How long did it take before you became fluent with it?
Nov 10 04:04:05 <Damm> my currrent bout is with Ruby
Nov 10 04:04:18 <Damm> however I'm going to have to take up some java and fix the Email program
Nov 10 04:04:24 <Damm> because it's failing me badly and i'm sick of it
Nov 10 04:04:31 <ismarc> Speaking of Email
Nov 10 04:04:42 <ismarc> I've got my proof of concept for using WebDAV with Exchange working now
Nov 10 04:04:44 <Damm> jasta kept talking about fixing it
Nov 10 04:04:52 <Damm> but uh i'd love to see where his commits are
Nov 10 04:04:59 <ismarc> it does a lot of things "not right" right now
Nov 10 04:05:00 <Dimath> Guys, how to get here from IRC? What's the server?
Nov 10 04:05:21 <ismarc> but it pulls the folder listing, pulls the email messages, and loads the bodies, etc. as it should
Nov 10 04:05:33 <ITechJunkie> Dimath: what?
Nov 10 04:05:42 <Damm> ismarc, can't delete via IMAP
Nov 10 04:05:52 <elad> bg
Nov 10 04:05:56 <ITechJunkie> Dimath: irc.freenode.net channel #android
Nov 10 04:05:56 <ismarc> Damm: yeah, I'm not touching the IMAP part at all yet
Nov 10 04:06:20 <Damm> ismarc, is there a spot to find the email diffs? because I see nothing commited in the actual email repository
Nov 10 04:06:46 <ismarc> I haven't seen anything committed in like 11-12 days either
Nov 10 04:07:12 <Damm> and there's only 2 commits
Nov 10 04:07:13 <Damm> lol
Nov 10 04:07:59 <ismarc> Soon as I get this past proof-of-concept level, I'm gonna try and get it committed
Nov 10 04:10:24 <Damm> i'll prolly just take the imap delete patch from k9mail and put it into email
Nov 10 04:10:32 <Damm> and then build it, install it... and remove k9mail for good
Nov 10 04:11:16 <|Dimath|> Thanks ITechJunkie :)
Nov 10 04:13:07 <Dimath> Who did install RC30 already?
Nov 10 04:13:22 <ITechJunkie> Dimath: no problem man
Nov 10 04:13:30 <ismarc> Dimath: I've got RC30 installed now
Nov 10 04:14:01 <jammr> Anyone know if you still get the OTA updates without tmo service?
Nov 10 04:14:06 <Dimath> ismarc, how does it feel so far? Any changes/differences?
Nov 10 04:14:37 <ismarc> I've been doing development stuff all day today, so like, I've used it as a phone and that's it
Nov 10 04:16:28 <Dimath> You used G1 as a phone??? Lame! :) Just kidding :)
Nov 10 04:17:03 <Dimath> Ok, I have other question.... What is restoring the root / directory after each reboot? Does anyone know?
Nov 10 04:17:38 <wastrel> i installed rc30
Nov 10 04:19:55 <swetland> dimath: / is unpacked from the ramdisk image in the boot.img or recovery.img on boot
Nov 10 04:20:08 <swetland> some directories are created by init.rc
Nov 10 04:20:37 <Dimath> ic...
Nov 10 04:20:41 <swetland> but it's a ram filesystem, nothing written to / survives reboot because it has no direct backing store
Nov 10 04:20:47 <Damm> so is there some way I can download the source.android.com via tarball or something?
Nov 10 04:20:59 <ismarc> Damm: use git, it's awesome
Nov 10 04:21:10 <Damm> ismarc, well i'm using 'repo' and it's painful
Nov 10 04:21:18 <Dimath> backing store? But how come /system is the same ater reboot?
Nov 10 04:21:19 <Damm> it's hit and miss
Nov 10 04:21:20 <ismarc> Damm: once it's all downloaded, change to the directory and type "make Email" and it just builds it for you
Nov 10 04:21:34 <Damm> excellent
Nov 10 04:21:42 <alansj> Dimath: detailed answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443994
Nov 10 04:21:44 <Damm> I believe /system is on a yaffs2 image
Nov 10 04:21:52 <Damm> or something, but i'll read that url
Nov 10 04:22:06 <swetland> yes. /system and /userdata are yaffs2 on internal nand
Nov 10 04:23:00 <Damm> actually that url explains it better swetland.
Nov 10 04:23:32 <Damm> i may have to buy a rc19 phone, and put a custom rom/recovery on it and play with it.
Nov 10 04:23:36 <Damm> seeings as i can't break my work phone
Nov 10 04:23:42 <Dimath> So, to change init.rc, for example, I need to change boot.img? Got it. Thanks.
Nov 10 04:24:03 <alansj> Dimath: yes
Nov 10 04:24:19 <alansj> please leave comments on that thread if anything is unclear
Nov 10 04:24:48 <tmzt> didn't know wmwifirouter had an ap mode? wonder how they implemented that on ce wifi drivers?
Nov 10 04:24:54 <swetland> well there are two issues with "that url"
Nov 10 04:25:09 <swetland> the cat /dev/zero to "erase" the flash is kinda bizarre
Nov 10 04:25:22 <alansj> yeah, I've been wondering about that... somebody was suggesting that early on
Nov 10 04:25:26 <swetland> and cat will not necessarily create useful backups of partition images
Nov 10 04:25:40 <alansj> I will remove the cat /dev/zero
Nov 10 04:25:41 <Damm> swetland, it's taht or dd
Nov 10 04:25:43 <swetland> it won't deal with bad blocks, and won't backup extradata for yaffs2 filesystems
Nov 10 04:25:51 <swetland> neither will work correctly
Nov 10 04:25:52 <Damm> that*
Nov 10 04:25:54 <Damm> right
Nov 10 04:26:02 <Damm> because yaffs2 you really want to copy the image itself
Nov 10 04:26:10 <Damm> and then unpack the image, modify it, re-pack it
Nov 10 04:26:37 <alansj> anyone have a suggestion for how to properly backup those partitions?
Nov 10 04:26:41 <Damm> from what little i paid attention to about yaffs2... i can only define it as weird.
Nov 10 04:26:41 <swetland> you could scrape the filesystem off in a restorable way, but to do it right, you'll probably need a program that doesn't assume it's a simple linear device with no gaps
Nov 10 04:26:59 <Damm> really weird
Nov 10 04:27:08 <Damm> but for embedded filesystems I can see the point
Nov 10 04:27:29 <alansj> swetland: so is there no need whatsoever to "erase" mtd1/mtd2 before flashing?
Nov 10 04:27:30 <tmzt> does yaffs2 contain the ftl, or it layered on it?
Nov 10 04:27:32 <swetland> the flash_image and recovery source should have some examples of interacting with the mtd devices
Nov 10 04:28:52 <andyross> Do we have source to flash_image?  I thought I remember looking and not finding it...
Nov 10 04:29:06 <swetland> it's in recovery/mtdutils
Nov 10 04:29:14 <andyross> Cool, thanks.
Nov 10 04:29:19 <swetland> (not all binaries have source files that match their names)
Nov 10 04:29:45 <Damm> swetland, that's kinda googles fault going from their inside repo to git
Nov 10 04:29:59 <Damm> as the open source and their internal repo isn't the same aparently
Nov 10 04:30:02 <Damm> which irks me
Nov 10 04:30:20 <swetland> actually the names don't always line up internally either
Nov 10 04:30:29 <tmzt> you want cpio -i --no-absolute-filenames if there are absolute paths in that cpio, or your own files get overwritten
Nov 10 04:31:17 <swetland> ah, I think I see why you might be needing to do the /dev/zero thing
Nov 10 04:31:41 <tmzt> there not the same length?
Nov 10 04:31:45 <swetland> flash_image checks to see if the partition already has the "same" image on it (by checking lengths and a check field in the header)
Nov 10 04:32:00 <alansj> ah, and doesn't flash if they match?
Nov 10 04:32:07 <swetland> so depending on how you're generating your new images, it may think they're already installed
Nov 10 04:32:42 <swetland>         } else if (checklen == headerlen && !memcmp(header, check, headerlen)) {
Nov 10 04:32:45 <swetland>             LOGI("header is the same, not flashing %s\n", argv[1]);
Nov 10 04:33:16 <alansj> if you use mkbootimg will the headers differ?
Nov 10 04:33:27 <swetland> they should
Nov 10 04:33:46 <alansj> even if you change just 1 character in 1 file?
Nov 10 04:34:03 <alansj> (like, change a 1 to a 0)
Nov 10 04:34:17 <swetland> mkbootimg dumps the time of day, and a checksum of kernel, ramdisk, and second into the check field
Nov 10 04:34:35 <alansj> in any event, I'm leaving the /dev/zero thing in there... it can't hurt (unless you blank out the wrong device, ha).
Nov 10 04:35:25 <swetland> not really. it doesn't really "erase" the flash (from the physical device POV), it erases it and overwrites it with zeros
Nov 10 04:35:28 <MystSparks_> has anyone been able oge android-vnc-viewer funcioning othe 1 yet, or evenwih tenew 1.0 k?
Nov 10 04:35:40 <tmzt> you don't have mtd util?
Nov 10 04:36:35 <MystSparks_> wow,  sorry, the wireless keyboard missed a few keys :) Wondering if anyone has installed successfully, on the G1, android-vnc-viewer. I can get it to run, connect, but no output
Nov 10 04:36:37 <swetland> nope. the shell level tools are pretty bare bones. trying to avoid depending on a lot of external stuff for basic system operation, keep the core system image small, etc
Nov 10 04:37:21 <tmzt> has saurik got debian working yet? there must be a reason for going to all this trouble (or gentoo)
Nov 10 04:38:07 <tmzt> the funny things is, I think, debian used to have a userland fbcon driver for i18n reasons
Nov 10 04:38:26 <sodenrox> man i hope the eagles beat the giants
Nov 10 04:38:44 <swetland> I'd be curious to see what a full debian build would look like on this thing
Nov 10 04:38:46 <tmzt> the wireless firmware is only STA, why is it being loaded in that link again?
Nov 10 04:39:11 <swetland> ?
Nov 10 04:39:48 <tmzt> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444004 #posted earlier about iptables
Nov 10 04:40:30 <tmzt> wlan_loader -f /system/etc/wifi/Fw1251r1c.bin -e /proc/calibration -i /system/etc/wifi/tiwlan.ini
Nov 10 04:41:05 <tmzt> wpa_supplicant -f -Dtiwlan0 (????) -itiwlan0 -c/data/misc/wifi/wpa_supplicant.conf
Nov 10 04:41:21 <swetland> dunno!
Nov 10 04:41:53 <tmzt> ok
Nov 10 04:42:30 <swetland> I assume it's done for some reason.  I've tried not to look directly into that tiwlan driver, as I fear losing my mind
Nov 10 04:43:15 <tmzt> I thought it was written in COBOL when I first saw the naming scheme, but the said you can copy just the sta part into the kernel and it compiles, so I don't know
Nov 10 04:43:26 <tmzt> I mean the comments
Nov 10 04:43:41 <swetland> yeah, it can build in the kernel or build as a module
Nov 10 04:43:48 <swetland> but it sure has a lot of, um, stuff in there
Nov 10 04:44:25 <ttuttle> swetland: greetings
Nov 10 04:44:30 <swetland> 'evening
Nov 10 04:44:43 <stanter> hey folks
Nov 10 04:44:49 <ttuttle> swetland: how's it going?
Nov 10 04:46:41 <swetland> well. busy. at&t seems to have hosed my phone line. no dialtone or dsl at home at the moment
Nov 10 04:47:12 <ttuttle> swetland: wow
Nov 10 04:47:39 <ttuttle> swetland: that's pretty lame
Nov 10 04:48:32 <swetland> they can helpfully send a tech to investigate... I just have to wait for them to show up between 8am and 8pm some day
Nov 10 04:48:43 <swetland> I'm going to cancel my landline and order bare dsl from speakeasy
Nov 10 04:49:18 <spikebike> sweet tell them you'll run a phone line outside a window and they can debug dsl/voice from outside
Nov 10 04:49:29 <ismarc> I've had so many problems with DSL in the past, I'm happy with cable-based internet now
Nov 10 04:49:33 <tmzt> you don't have a customer access box?
Nov 10 04:49:59 <swetland> no dialtone there either
Nov 10 04:50:28 * Damm sighs
Nov 10 04:50:42 <ttuttle> swetland: wow, that's fail.  speakeasy++
Nov 10 04:50:47 <Damm> how annoying, lots of apps complain about case sensitive filesystems
Nov 10 04:50:51 <Damm> and yet android wants you to NOT have one
Nov 10 04:51:20 <gdsx> Damm: huh?
Nov 10 04:51:51 <Damm> gdsx, I tried to run make from the base directory of android/ and it complaisn that my filesystem is not 'case sensitive'
Nov 10 04:52:10 <ttuttle> Damm: so get a real computer :-P
Nov 10 04:52:20 <Damm> ttuttle, I own a Mac... it is a real computer :-P
Nov 10 04:52:27 <gdsx> Damm: get a real filesystem
Nov 10 04:52:32 <michaelnovakjr_> well...
Nov 10 04:52:33 <Damm> gdsx, talk to apple
Nov 10 04:52:42 <gdsx> Damm: your machine supports ZFS, for one
Nov 10 04:52:49 <Damm> read only
Nov 10 04:52:53 <gdsx> aah :o/
Nov 10 04:52:58 <ttuttle> Damm: hey, it's your box. *you* talk to apple :-P
Nov 10 04:53:01 <tmzt> ufs?
Nov 10 04:53:02 <gdsx> Damm: what most of the mac folks here do is just create a disk image
Nov 10 04:53:07 <michaelnovakjr_> gdsx: you can get write access for ZFS but it is not supported for OSX installs
Nov 10 04:53:08 * ttuttle uses ext3.
Nov 10 04:53:20 <gdsx> michaelnovakjr_: ::shrug:: I don't use macs :o)
Nov 10 04:53:22 <Damm> michaelnovakjr_, nor bootable
Nov 10 04:53:25 <michaelnovakjr_> me either
Nov 10 04:53:29 <tmzt> ttuttle: oh, ext3 is read/write on osx? didn't know that
Nov 10 04:53:36 <michaelnovakjr_> Damm: yea, that is what i meant by no OS X installs :)
Nov 10 04:53:36 <Damm> so you can do /User with ZFS
Nov 10 04:53:39 <Damm> but that's not really the point
Nov 10 04:53:55 <Damm> so many apple apps whine if you have a case sensitive filesystem
Nov 10 04:54:02 <ttuttle> tmzt: dunno. i run linux.
Nov 10 04:54:08 <Damm> while so many others whine if your filesystem is not case sensitive.
Nov 10 04:54:10 <michaelnovakjr_> linux++
Nov 10 04:54:20 <ttuttle> Damm: that's dumb. case sensitive is good.,
Nov 10 04:54:34 <gdsx> Damm: I don't see how an app could depend on a case-insensitive filesystem if the devs aren't idiots or incredibly lazy
Nov 10 04:54:43 <tmzt> which is why I didn't know if osx supported it
Nov 10 04:54:54 <ttuttle> Damm: i want my fs to treat filenames as C strings with / as separator and \0 as terminator, that's *it*
Nov 10 04:54:59 <Damm> gdsx, lazy
Nov 10 04:55:10 * ttuttle -> sleep.
Nov 10 04:55:11 <gdsx> Damm: of course, I'm not ranting at you, but rather at the aforementioned devs :o)
Nov 10 04:55:14 <Damm> gdsx, most Blizzard games demand it.
Nov 10 04:55:14 <gdsx> ttuttle: see ya
Nov 10 04:55:24 <gdsx> :o/
Nov 10 04:55:25 <Damm> I believe Adobe has some issues with it too
Nov 10 04:55:32 <gdsx> yeah, I've heard that's the case
Nov 10 04:55:32 <tmzt> make does because it has to search the fs, it could upper case everything, but it's easier not too
Nov 10 04:55:55 <Damm> not an issue, I nuked a 40GB partiton and made it case sensitive
Nov 10 04:55:58 <Damm> i'll move my sources there.
Nov 10 04:57:11 <gdsx> so, quick question.  println("foo" + obj) isn't fast.  What's the better way to do it?  just println("foo" + obj.toString)?
Nov 10 04:58:43 <Android-DLs> it would be cool if mibbit could dcc lol
Nov 10 04:58:46 <muthu> gdsx: isn't it the same thing?
Nov 10 04:58:48 <ismarc> gdsx: My knowledge of the intricacies of java performance improvements is limited, but I would assume those are essentially the same thing
Nov 10 04:58:57 <ismarc> implicit vs. explicit
Nov 10 04:59:12 <Android-DLs[dot]> ack
Nov 10 04:59:27 <muthu> hey Android-DLs[dot]
Nov 10 04:59:35 <DarkriftX> sup muthu
Nov 10 04:59:51 <muthu> how's it goin?
Nov 10 04:59:57 <DarkriftX> good, you?
Nov 10 05:00:07 <DarkriftX> testing out my mibbit page
Nov 10 05:00:07 <muthu> boring monday
Nov 10 05:00:11 <DarkriftX> seeing what all works on it lol
Nov 10 05:00:30 <muthu> i need a vacation
Nov 10 05:00:38 <Android-DLs[dot]> me too lol
Nov 10 05:00:40 <gdsx> muthu, ismarc: I'm trying to deal with http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/util/Log.html
Nov 10 05:01:03 <gdsx> if you look at the second "Tip", it notes that "foo" + obj isn't good, but doesn't suggest an alternative
Nov 10 05:01:47 <muthu> gdsx: its better to call obj.meth instead of obj
Nov 10 05:01:54 <muthu> but obj and obj.tostring must be the same
Nov 10 05:02:19 <ismarc> Oh, that's fairly simple to fix then
Nov 10 05:02:19 <Dimath> My /system says it has 0K available... is it bad/wrong?
Nov 10 05:02:33 <ismarc> do String x = "somestuff" + theValue
Nov 10 05:02:43 <ismarc> then Log.whatever(x)
Nov 10 05:02:54 <gdsx> ismarc: that will avoid the StringBuilder stuff?
Nov 10 05:02:56 <ismarc> so it's passed just the string to operate on, rather than having to build the string itself
Nov 10 05:03:05 <ismarc> it kinda looks like it
Nov 10 05:03:13 <gdsx> ismarc: ok
Nov 10 05:03:29 <gdsx> I probably won't be able to tell the difference, but I'll go ahead and do that.  thanks :o)
Nov 10 05:04:13 <muthu> yeah, that should do.. since you build the string yourself
Nov 10 05:04:29 <scootley> gdsx: some people also use a convention of calling the equivalent of if (isLoggable(...)){ around the call to Log.v()
Nov 10 05:05:31 <DarkriftX> wow, someone made a huge wiki page on editing and making images
Nov 10 05:05:32 <gdsx> scootley: well, I'm doing stuff that shouldn't end up in a user build, so I just do if(Config.LOGV) {...}
Nov 10 05:05:41 <DarkriftX> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_Unpack%2C_Edit%2C_and_Re-Pack_Boot_Images
Nov 10 05:05:49 <DarkriftX> i love how wiki works lol
Nov 10 05:05:52 <gdsx> scootley: apicheck prevents LOGV from being turned on in user builds, so it DTRT
Nov 10 05:08:26 <alansj> DarkriftX: that was me.  Thanks for setting up the wiki... got lots of info from your site.
Nov 10 05:08:49 <ismarc> so, I'm drawing a blank on trying to find a better way to do something, and hopefully someone here has a better idea
Nov 10 05:08:54 <DarkriftX> good, that was the point
Nov 10 05:08:58 <DarkriftX> and thx for the additions
Nov 10 05:09:00 <Dialekt> anyone seen the new HP commercial with Fer
Nov 10 05:09:19 <ismarc> so, for what I'm working on, have to pull session and cadata cookies
Nov 10 05:09:40 <ismarc> cookies are set to expire at the end of the session
Nov 10 05:09:53 <ismarc> subsequent requests have to include the cookies
Nov 10 05:09:56 <DarkriftX> alansj, if there are any files you want to link to in a wiki page and want them hosted, dcc them to me and pm me what they are for and il upload em
Nov 10 05:10:03 <stanter> will adb work on a real device?
Nov 10 05:10:11 <alansj> cool
Nov 10 05:10:15 <ismarc> however, the server will timeout after x (unknown and configurable) minutes without a request
Nov 10 05:10:24 <DarkriftX> i dont mind links to other sites, but id rather downloads be local because forum topics get moved etc and make downloads hard to find
Nov 10 05:10:41 <DarkriftX> i liked to a file before and an admin on xda-devs merged the topic and broke the links
Nov 10 05:10:51 <DarkriftX> liked = linked
Nov 10 05:11:11 <umdk1d3> oh awesome, did yall see foxtrot today?
Nov 10 05:11:17 <ismarc> so right now I'm just re-authing each time I'm going to do a series of requests, and doing a simple get for single requests (and if the get is 401, reauth)
Nov 10 05:11:43 <ismarc> but that's a lot of reauthing for no reason if the requests are before the session would time out
Nov 10 05:11:47 <alansj> DarkriftX: ok, well if you want to grab those perl scripts and put them on your site and update the wiki page, fine by me
Nov 10 05:12:16 <gdsx> stanter: yes, adb is designed to work on real devices
Nov 10 05:12:42 <DarkriftX> will do
Nov 10 05:12:54 <Dialekt> dark
Nov 10 05:12:59 <Dialekt> .
Nov 10 05:13:54 <RyeBrye> Damm - you still here? you can make a case-sensitive disk image on a mac to compile android
Nov 10 05:19:39 <stanter> gdsx: thanks
Nov 10 05:20:38 <gdsx> stanter: np
Nov 10 05:21:34 * RyeBrye loves adb
Nov 10 05:22:05 <RyeBrye> is there a way in adb to get directory listings other than using shell? I know you can push / pull...
Nov 10 05:22:15 <jammr> < noob, so you can use the terminal on android to adb install xxx.apk?
Nov 10 05:22:17 * RyeBrye has pondered writing an ADB-FUSE plugin
Nov 10 05:22:37 <gdsx> jammr: perhaps with pm
Nov 10 05:22:40 <gdsx> I'm not sure, though
Nov 10 05:23:01 <gdsx> RyeBrye: so you can compile directly on the device? (haha!)
Nov 10 05:23:35 <umdk1d3> mmm android phones in foxtrot sunday comics today -->  http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2008/ft081109.gif
Nov 10 05:23:56 * gdsx looks
Nov 10 05:24:25 <RyeBrye> gdsx - no, so the FUSE would be so I could mount the device on my machine without mounting it on my machine... i.e. it would be accessible to the phone still but the FUSE thing would let me read and write files to it
Nov 10 05:24:51 <gdsx> oh, I see
Nov 10 05:25:16 <RyeBrye> gdsx- kind of like how you can use sshfs to mount drives over ssh but they look like normal drives to your machine - but under the hood it uses ssh / scp to handle moving files around
Nov 10 05:26:09 <gdsx> yeah
Nov 10 05:26:15 * gdsx is familiar with fuse
Nov 10 05:26:36 <RyeBrye> gdsx - compiling directly on the device would really suck :)
Nov 10 05:27:04 <gdsx> RyeBrye: hey, you only earn street cred through pain, right? :o)
Nov 10 05:27:22 <RyeBrye> gdsx - well, only if the pain is novel enough
Nov 10 05:27:25 <soden> anyone know why windows would reboot when i'm trying to do an adb push?
Nov 10 05:27:32 <RyeBrye> because windows sucks?
Nov 10 05:27:42 <soden> lol duh
Nov 10 05:27:48 <RyeBrye> I have no idea
Nov 10 05:27:57 <soden> christ...
Nov 10 05:28:00 <RyeBrye> maybe it's pooshing too hard?
Nov 10 05:28:05 <soden> it might be
Nov 10 05:29:36 <michaelnovakjr_> soden: be a friend to your machine, and replace windows with linux
Nov 10 05:29:42 <michaelnovakjr_> it'll be a happier machine :)
Nov 10 05:29:48 <soden> lol
Nov 10 05:29:50 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 10 05:29:52 * DarkriftX agrees
Nov 10 05:29:58 <soden> alot of my hardware wont work
Nov 10 05:30:17 <cmonex> dualboot ? =)
Nov 10 05:30:34 <cmonex> RyeBrye PM :)
Nov 10 05:30:43 <DarkriftX> yes Dialekt?
Nov 10 05:30:50 <DarkriftX> you have to use my full nick to catch my alert Dialekt
Nov 10 05:31:00 <DarkriftX> dont see me calling you dia do you?
Nov 10 05:31:43 <Dialekt> .
Nov 10 05:32:48 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 10 05:39:48 <stanter> has anyone been able to use tslib to feed touchscreen events to android?
Nov 10 05:40:22 <stanter> i just got android on my device, but i suspect the touchscreen data it gets is really out of wack for what it expects
Nov 10 05:41:16 <RyeBrye> Just out of curiosity for any mac users here - what IRC clients are you using?
Nov 10 05:41:44 <tmzt> stanter: what do you mean?
Nov 10 05:41:51 <Dimath> How much free space you have on /system drive? It suppose to be something... But it says 0k, I am worred if some data is missing already...
Nov 10 05:42:17 <RyeBrye> Dimath - yeah, should put apps on /data/local and symlink them into /system/bin
Nov 10 05:42:19 <DarkriftX> ive heard of others filling it up
Nov 10 05:42:24 <DarkriftX> and no problems yet that ive heard
Nov 10 05:42:29 <RyeBrye> Mine started acting funny
Nov 10 05:43:13 <RyeBrye> so I wiped it and moved my bins to /data/local the next time I did things
Nov 10 05:43:23 <Dimath> RyeBrye, i putted only busybox to /system/bin... and it was some space there left. But then I did factory reset and it says 0k now :-/ wired
Nov 10 05:43:32 <stanter> tmzt: the x,y absolute coordinates when read from event0 don't necessarily map to the resolution of my screen. i use tslib to calibrate, and relevent software uses tslib to read touchscreen events thus the coordinates are correct
Nov 10 05:43:48 <tmzt> stanter: what software are you using?
Nov 10 05:44:10 <stanter> tmzt: i compiled flashlitefb with touchscreen support
Nov 10 05:44:12 <tmzt> stanter: and what hardware? don't think android uses tslib
Nov 10 05:44:15 <RyeBrye> Dimath- busybox is a really big binary - when mine got full I had busybox and a few other things there - so it doesn't surprise me that would fill it up
Nov 10 05:44:35 <stanter> tmzt: right i know it doesn't. i was wondering if anyone had tried to do this
Nov 10 05:45:09 <Dimath> 1.7 mb...
Nov 10 05:45:11 <tmzt> flashlightfb is a program running on the fb directly? and zygote is not running?
Nov 10 05:45:26 <Dimath> Are we in 21 century or what...
Nov 10 05:45:47 <tmzt> you can check /etc/ts.conf and see what plugins are loaded and how they are configured
Nov 10 05:46:03 <tmzt> you can also use evtest or similar to dump the abs coordinates from your ts
Nov 10 05:46:13 <RyeBrye> Dimath - /system is not built with much free space for a reason - it would be wasted there since they don't intend anyone to have write access to it... so 1.7 fills up most of the free space on the /system
Nov 10 05:46:19 <RyeBrye>  /data has penty of space
Nov 10 05:46:35 <tmzt> can you just add something in /data to the path in init.rc?
Nov 10 05:47:15 <stanter> tmzt: basically my question is, how does android expect the event coordinates to appear? does it expect that they are mapped to the display resolution?
Nov 10 05:47:48 <tmzt> stanter: I don't think it does on hardware, it did on emulator before release
Nov 10 05:47:51 <Dimath> RyeBrye, true. The only thing, it has 0 space, that means something didn't fit there already (missing files? bad thing), and second - what was it tried to put files there. Cause that wasn't me, I check the space left after busybox :)
Nov 10 05:48:10 <RyeBrye> dalvik caches stuff there, I think
Nov 10 05:49:35 <stanter> tmzt: so will it do it's own internal calibration? for example how will it know that x,y coord of 4000,5000 maps to the center of the screen
Nov 10 05:50:09 <tmzt> stanter: sorry, you asked about tslib, I'm not familiar with how android stores it calibration data
Nov 10 05:50:42 <stanter> tmzt: ok :)
Nov 10 05:51:00 <stanter> tmzt: thanks for the responses, i appreciate it
Nov 10 05:51:11 <tmzt> < stanter> tmzt: the x,y absolute coordinates when read from event0 don't necessarily map to the resolution of  my screen. i use tslib to calibrate, and relevent software uses tslib to read touchscreen events  thus the coordinates are correct
Nov 10 05:51:26 <tmzt> you mean the tslib test programs worked?
Nov 10 05:51:35 <stanter> tmzt: sure they work just fine
Nov 10 05:51:35 <tmzt> after you calibrated with ts_calibrate ?
Nov 10 05:51:43 <tmzt> but android doesn't?
Nov 10 05:52:53 <stanter> tmzt: well i get weird behavior the minute i touch the screen, the images slides all over the place, i suspect that the touchscreen events have data that android doesn't like
Nov 10 05:53:07 <tmzt> but you are on g1?
Nov 10 05:54:29 <stanter> tmzt: the g1 question was to me? please rephrase. i am unsure what you mean by g1
Nov 10 05:54:36 <tmzt> yes
Nov 10 05:54:51 <tmzt> g1 is the t-mobile phone with android software released in the us
Nov 10 05:55:20 <stanter> no i am not. i am using custom hardware. i ported my kernel. back ported android drivers and such
Nov 10 05:55:43 <stanter> i can get to the android "desktop" (not sure what the name is)
Nov 10 05:55:49 <tmzt> ok, what hardware are you using?
Nov 10 05:56:00 <stanter> pxa-310 xscale
Nov 10 05:56:14 <tmzt> so you have a tsc driver in the kernel?
Nov 10 05:56:20 <stanter> the touchscreen is a synaptics capacitive touch screen
Nov 10 05:56:21 <stanter> yup
Nov 10 05:56:25 <stanter> that works really well
Nov 10 05:56:31 <stanter> assuming i read from tslib
Nov 10 05:56:54 <tmzt> that's what I'm saying, tslib working is seperate from android working
Nov 10 05:57:06 <stanter> yeah that makes sense
Nov 10 05:57:24 <tmzt> they both read from the event device but process things their own way, according to their own calibration data
Nov 10 05:57:44 <stanter> ok so android does have some calibration stuff
Nov 10 05:58:40 <tmzt> RyeBrye_: is there a way to calibrate the touchscreen in android?
Nov 10 06:01:10 <RyeBrye_> Dunno.
Nov 10 06:01:17 * RyeBrye_ is not google perosn
Nov 10 06:02:07 <tmzt> stanter: well, there is source for the android touchscreen stuff, I think
Nov 10 06:02:20 <tmzt> stanter: other than that, I don't know
Nov 10 06:02:46 <tmzt> you have the pxafb patches or you are using seperate display interface?
Nov 10 06:03:28 <stanter> it is separate, although those patches might be relevant
Nov 10 06:04:17 <stanter> are you referring to android specific pxafb patches?
Nov 10 06:04:40 <tmzt> yes, for the vyres * 2 and PAN ioctl's
Nov 10 06:05:03 <tmzt> but you have that working?
Nov 10 06:05:11 <tmzt> you said it boots into a menu
Nov 10 06:05:15 <stanter> yes it does
Nov 10 06:08:52 <stanter> i wish i knew what the symptom would be if i didn't have that working
Nov 10 06:09:15 <tmzt> it used to stop at the boot screen
Nov 10 06:09:29 <stanter> ok excellent i def. have that working
Nov 10 06:09:32 <tmzt> but you can do a fbset and check the vyres is double yres (at least)
Nov 10 06:10:06 <tmzt> is that armv5 or armv6?
Nov 10 06:10:13 <tmzt> pxa300
Nov 10 06:10:23 <stanter> armv5
Nov 10 06:10:58 <tmzt> did you have to change anything to build android images, or did you build the standard yaffs2?
Nov 10 06:11:01 <stanter> what is the exact command to see the vyres?
Nov 10 06:11:09 <tmzt> and you have mtd flash?
Nov 10 06:11:12 <tmzt> fbset
Nov 10 06:11:23 <stanter> mode "480x272-60"
Nov 10 06:11:24 <stanter>         # D: 9.455 MHz, H: 17.159 kHz, V: 59.996 Hz
Nov 10 06:11:24 <stanter>         geometry 480 272 480 272 16
Nov 10 06:11:24 <stanter>         timings 105769 4 3 2 2 64 10
Nov 10 06:11:24 <stanter>         accel false
Nov 10 06:11:24 <stanter>         rgba 5/11,6/5,5/0,0/0
Nov 10 06:11:26 <stanter> endmode
Nov 10 06:11:33 <stanter> i see the following output when i run fbset
Nov 10 06:11:51 <tmzt> yes, the third and forth numbers on geometry
Nov 10 06:12:20 <tmzt> the fourth should be twice the second
Nov 10 06:12:52 <stanter> so this suggest the driver is misconfigured
Nov 10 06:12:53 <tmzt> you can also check your driver and see if it has PAN implemented the same way as other android patches
Nov 10 06:13:08 <tmzt> if they still do the double buffering the same way
Nov 10 06:13:19 <tmzt> you don't have any 3d hardware, right?
Nov 10 06:13:44 <stanter> noi don't
Nov 10 06:13:58 <stanter> so the geometry string
Nov 10 06:13:58 <stanter> is
Nov 10 06:14:11 <stanter> xres,yres,vyres,yres?
Nov 10 06:14:29 <tmzt> xres,yres,vxres,vyres
Nov 10 06:15:25 <stanter> ok so what you are saying is that the string should read 480 272 280 544
Nov 10 06:15:44 <stanter> * 480 272 480 544
Nov 10 06:16:30 <tmzt> here's one: http://androidzaurus.up.seesaa.net/image/pxafb_doublebuffer.patch.bz2
Nov 10 06:16:47 <tmzt> I think that one uses overlay support, which might be different on pxa300
Nov 10 06:17:40 <stanter> hmm ill check it out thanks!
Nov 10 06:17:43 <tmzt> also, www.omegamoon.com/android/patches/m5-rc14/pxafb.c
Nov 10 06:17:46 <stanter> are my proposed numbers correct?
Nov 10 06:18:15 <tmzt> my understanding is it has to be at least twice, I mean the fb size in memory
Nov 10 06:18:24 <tmzt> I think that is right though
Nov 10 06:21:09 <stanter> ah so the PAN is used in the double buffering
Nov 10 06:28:46 <stanter> tmzt: thanks man! excellet pointers and information. this is def. not implemented in my driver. thanks again!
Nov 10 06:29:08 <BHSPitMonkey> tmzt is the man
Nov 10 06:29:28 <tmzt> sure. It would be great to know how to get android working on pxa, but I need to get my mux driver for the modem before it will be useful for me
Nov 10 06:29:36 <tmzt> BHSPitMonkey: hey
Nov 10 06:29:42 <tmzt> BHSPitMonkey: android on strtrk?
Nov 10 06:30:08 <BHSPitMonkey> tmzt, it's really been on my back burner, with school going on and such.
Nov 10 06:30:33 <BHSPitMonkey> tmzt, I made a big post basically sharing what I found out so far
Nov 10 06:30:46 <tmzt> I wonder how much of the d-pad compatible stuff is still there from m3
Nov 10 06:30:46 <BHSPitMonkey> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2881833
Nov 10 06:30:53 <stanter> well i'd be happy to contribute a success story WHEN(if) i get it all working
Nov 10 06:31:00 <BHSPitMonkey> So maybe more people will get on board
Nov 10 06:31:26 <stanter> but android did boot and i do see a desktop, can't be toooo far off
Nov 10 06:31:28 <uncategorized> where can i see release info for the OTA updates
Nov 10 06:31:46 <tmzt> t-mobile forums I think
Nov 10 06:39:18 <d0nets> could someone help me get my phone recognized with "adb devices"
Nov 10 06:39:33 <d0nets> im running ubuntu 7.10
Nov 10 06:39:35 <d0nets> http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware
Nov 10 06:39:40 <d0nets> i did those instructions
Nov 10 06:41:05 <tmzt> not sure what's wrong, it looks like it's using usbfs
Nov 10 06:45:52 <michaelnovakjr_> d0nets: can you pastebin your 50-android.rules file
Nov 10 06:46:08 <michaelnovakjr_> actually first, did you select USB debugging on the phone?
Nov 10 06:47:21 <d0nets> SUBSYSTEM=="usb", SYSFS{idVendor}=="0bb4", MODE="0666"
Nov 10 06:47:35 <d0nets> Bus 004 Device 006: ID 0bb4:0c02 High Tech Computer Corp.
Nov 10 06:47:39 <michaelnovakjr_> restart your adb
Nov 10 06:47:39 <d0nets> thats what i get when i lsusb
Nov 10 06:47:55 <michaelnovakjr_> adb kill-server
Nov 10 06:47:58 <michaelnovakjr_> adb start-server
Nov 10 06:49:12 <d0nets> still not seeing it
Nov 10 06:49:20 <KNY> High Tech Computer Corp.? What is this, a cheesy movie?
Nov 10 06:49:22 <KNY> :)
Nov 10 06:49:28 <d0nets> thats HTC
Nov 10 06:49:46 <michaelnovakjr_> d0nets: you ran the chmod command?
Nov 10 06:49:56 <KNY> yeah, it just makes me laugh every time I see the acronym expanded
Nov 10 06:50:06 <d0nets> sudo chmod a+rx /etc/udev/rules.d/50-android.rules
Nov 10 06:50:26 <michaelnovakjr_> did you do this while the device was plugged in?
Nov 10 06:50:32 <d0nets> yea
Nov 10 06:50:37 <d0nets> am i not supposed to?
Nov 10 06:51:16 <michaelnovakjr_> try unplugging it and reconnecting it
Nov 10 06:51:55 <d0nets> should i do anything after i reconnect it?
Nov 10 06:52:01 <d0nets> or just adb devices
Nov 10 06:52:12 <KNY> adb devices should show it
Nov 10 06:52:13 <michaelnovakjr_> just adb devices
Nov 10 06:52:16 <d0nets> nope
Nov 10 06:52:18 <KNY> though you might want to kill the server
Nov 10 06:52:39 <d0nets> nope
Nov 10 06:52:45 <michaelnovakjr_> yea kill the server again with the device disconnected and then reconnect the device after you start the server again
Nov 10 06:52:53 <KNY> just for grins, have you tried the instructions for Dapper?
Nov 10 06:55:14 <d0nets> i got it working
Nov 10 06:55:16 <d0nets> SUBSYSTEM=="usb_device", SYSFS{idVendor}=="0bb4", MODE="0664", GROUP="plugdev"
Nov 10 06:55:29 <d0nets> then killed and started and unplugged
Nov 10 06:55:49 <d0nets> adb devices
Nov 10 06:55:49 <d0nets> List of devices attached
Nov 10 06:55:49 <d0nets> HT839GZ33077    device
Nov 10 06:56:13 <michaelnovakjr_> :) dapper instructions
Nov 10 06:57:11 <KNY> woohoo!
Nov 10 06:57:16 <KNY> <-- winner?
Nov 10 06:57:28 <KNY> did you upgrade to gutsy from dapper?
Nov 10 07:03:45 <Dimath> What is that line for Mandriva?
Nov 10 07:04:14 <Dimath> 'usb' or 'usb_device'?
Nov 10 07:07:12 <KNY> Dimath, a quick Google leads me to believe usb_device
Nov 10 07:07:18 <KNY> but don't quote me on that ;)
Nov 10 07:09:45 <fnordg1> lolphone
Nov 10 07:14:38 <fnordg1> freeway irc. fun
Nov 10 07:15:20 <d0nets> no i didnt
Nov 10 07:15:23 <d0nets> installed gutsy
Nov 10 07:15:26 <d0nets> im about to upgrade though
Nov 10 07:15:38 <d0nets> but thanks for the help
Nov 10 07:15:45 <d0nets> i was trying to get this tethering app working
Nov 10 07:15:48 <d0nets> but to no avail
Nov 10 07:15:52 <kRutOn> fnord: I recommend against IRC while driving
Nov 10 07:16:13 <fnordg1> :p
Nov 10 07:16:23 <kRutOn> fnordg1: Using ConnectBot?
Nov 10 07:16:44 <fnordg1> ya
Nov 10 07:23:55 <tmzt> usb_device is it shows up that way in /sys/class/
Nov 10 07:24:02 <tmzt> Dimath:
Nov 10 07:24:10 <tmzt> if
Nov 10 07:34:28 <ExpiredPopsicle> ls
Nov 10 07:34:34 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 10 07:34:34 <ExpiredPopsicle> Woops. Wrong window. XD
Nov 10 07:34:41 <DarkriftX> rm -Rf /
Nov 10 07:34:49 <ExpiredPopsicle> Haw. :V
Nov 10 07:34:50 * DarkriftX waits for the split
Nov 10 07:35:07 <ExpiredPopsicle> =P
Nov 10 07:35:16 <DarkriftX> lol, someone should write an irc client that treats users as files
Nov 10 07:35:24 <DarkriftX> rm -f DarkriftX
Nov 10 07:35:25 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 10 07:35:41 <ExpiredPopsicle> Could write a filesystem module for it.
Nov 10 07:35:45 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 10 07:36:31 <kRutOn> I think I remember a FUSE-based filesystem for Jabber
Nov 10 07:36:39 <kRutOn> where you cat files to see what they sent you
Nov 10 07:36:57 <ExpiredPopsicle> Hah. Weird.
Nov 10 07:37:25 <rahul> Hello. I am a new to git and wondering if any one can help me check out android source on XP?
Nov 10 07:38:35 <ExpiredPopsicle> I've been coding all day and I think I'm a bit ready to pass out. That, or I'll just type all my code into the wrong window again.
Nov 10 07:40:26 <ExpiredPopsicle> Heh. I never even noticed that they don't seem to have Windows instructions about how to get the source.
Nov 10 07:43:47 <rahul> yeah, they don't :(
Nov 10 07:48:08 <fnordg1> hmmm how do you pageup/down in connectbot
Nov 10 07:52:02 <oyeoj> i never figured that out
Nov 10 07:52:10 <DarkriftX> umdk1d3, you still awake?
Nov 10 07:52:12 <DarkriftX> he would know
Nov 10 07:52:13 <kRutOn> fnordg1: slide your finger along the left side of the screen
Nov 10 07:52:17 <DarkriftX> or kRutOn
Nov 10 07:53:54 <fnordg1> oh nice
Nov 10 07:54:17 <fnordg1> :D
Nov 10 07:55:03 <fnordg1> now to figure out kbd light timeout
Nov 10 07:55:17 <kRutOn> mash the keyboard until it stays lit
Nov 10 07:55:27 <fnordg1> hah
Nov 10 07:56:08 <oyeoj> hm
Nov 10 07:56:09 <oyeoj> ok
Nov 10 07:56:15 <oyeoj> no how to do pageup in screen?
Nov 10 07:56:40 <kRutOn> ctrl-a esc ctrl-u
Nov 10 07:58:08 <kRutOn> in connectbot if "click" meant clicking the trackball, it'd be: click a click click click u
Nov 10 08:01:08 * fnordg1 ponders a samba port
Nov 10 08:02:06 <oyeoj> oh wow connectbot can ssh tunnel
Nov 10 08:02:19 <oyeoj> AND supports multitasking properly
Nov 10 08:02:27 <fnordg1> pocket domain controller anyone?
Nov 10 08:04:49 <ExpiredPopsicle> Bleh. I wish I hadn't updated to RC30.
Nov 10 08:05:51 <fnord> =[
Nov 10 08:06:17 * ExpiredPopsicle waits patiently for another jailbreak exploit. :|
Nov 10 08:15:19 <Gary|tp> "I just downloaded it to give it a one star bc it says not to download it if you dont know what it is. ha ha fucker"
Nov 10 08:15:21 <Gary|tp> wow.
Nov 10 08:15:39 <Gary|tp> Between this and unregulated app postings, I'm starting to hate the market.
Nov 10 08:15:41 <Gary|tp> Pretty fast.
Nov 10 08:16:39 <fnord> yeah it seems to have alot of asshattery
Nov 10 08:17:29 <Gary|tp> I almost say google should regulate it, or someone else should redesign the market for people who hate shit like that.
Nov 10 08:26:10 <spikebike> freaking weird
Nov 10 08:26:21 <spikebike> my 2nd g1 is still at rc19
Nov 10 08:26:28 <spikebike> and no update is offered
Nov 10 08:26:46 <ExpiredPopsicle> The market needs some user comment moderation. Really, really bad.
Nov 10 08:27:14 * spikebike hadn't noticed
Nov 10 08:27:50 <kRutOn> ExpiredPopsicle: I haven't seen the Market, but some people were laughing at the ConnectBot comments.
Nov 10 08:27:59 <fnord> the g1's in tmobile stores are still not rc30?
Nov 10 08:28:26 <tmzt> fnordg1: easy enough with root, I guess
Nov 10 08:28:32 <kRutOn> Gary|tp: What app was that posted on?
Nov 10 08:29:25 <ExpiredPopsicle> Yeah. I remember the same kind of thing happened with the Terminal client for the Sidekick. Some couldn't figure out what it was for.
Nov 10 08:29:51 <Gary|tp> kRutOn: the war driving one
Nov 10 08:29:55 <Gary|tp> that marks wifi spots
Nov 10 08:30:18 <spikebike> fnod no idea, but the one I bought a few weeks ago is still rc19
Nov 10 08:30:21 <ExpiredPopsicle> There's a war driving app? :o
Nov 10 08:30:34 <Gary|tp> yeah
Nov 10 08:30:38 <kRutOn> I guess people might interpret some things as being snarky.
Nov 10 08:31:13 <Gary|tp> fnordg1: does the G1 imply theres an IRC client for g1 yet :) ?
Nov 10 08:31:17 <tmzt> ExpiredPopsicle: what't the Terminal for on sidekick? is that symbian? (just found out xd was symbian, I think)
Nov 10 08:31:27 <oyeoj>  connectbot comment: 1 star "dont know the purpose"
Nov 10 08:31:32 <kRutOn> I've received hundreds of email asking what ConnectBot does. I try to be helpful, but I imagine some of those people still give it a low rating.
Nov 10 08:31:44 <ExpiredPopsicle> It's a secure shell client for the Sidekick phones.
Nov 10 08:32:11 <kRutOn> oyeoj: Yeah.. why even bother commenting
Nov 10 08:32:25 <oyeoj> yeah
Nov 10 08:32:27 <fnord> Gary|tp, nah that's signed on via connectbot
Nov 10 08:32:30 <oyeoj> youtube comment mentality :(
Nov 10 08:32:35 <Gary|tp> aww :(
Nov 10 08:32:43 <Gary|tp> connectbot + irssi work well?
Nov 10 08:32:48 <oyeoj> yeah
Nov 10 08:32:52 <oyeoj> works like a champ
Nov 10 08:32:56 <fnord> yup
Nov 10 08:32:56 <ExpiredPopsicle> I've used connectbot and irssi with screen. It's sweet.
Nov 10 08:33:10 <Gary|tp> might have to give it a shot then
Nov 10 08:33:15 <spikebike> works ok
Nov 10 08:33:23 <spikebike> still get some screen artifacts in the status bar
Nov 10 08:33:34 <kRutOn> Gary|tp: There might still be some lingering bugs, but I haven't had a chance to look at them :-)
Nov 10 08:33:44 <ExpiredPopsicle> Though, typing while laggy is a little annoying. I kind of wish it had the line-buffered input option that the sidekick terminal client had, but I've never seen any ssh client with that option except that, so I can't really hold it against connectbot.
Nov 10 08:33:50 <spikebike> what is connectbot's current rating?
Nov 10 08:33:55 <kRutOn> spikebike: What version of irssi do you run?
Nov 10 08:34:02 <kRutOn> spikebike: Market says 4.5/5
Nov 10 08:34:14 <Gary|tp> kRutOn = ConnectBot dev?
Nov 10 08:34:27 <kRutOn> Gary|tp: yes
Nov 10 08:34:35 <Gary135791> Ahh well, thanks :)
Nov 10 08:34:37 <spikebike> sounds like a decent rating to me... sure the dingbats make stupid comments
Nov 10 08:34:41 <oyeoj> i'm used to the pterm on treo so i'm super happy with silly things like... multiple ssh sessions
Nov 10 08:34:47 <ExpiredPopsicle> Oh. Wow. Awesome app, btw, kRutOn. ;]
Nov 10 08:34:54 <oyeoj> and true multitasking :)
Nov 10 08:34:57 <spikebike> Irssi: Client: irssi 0.8.10 (20051211 0941)
Nov 10 08:35:17 <kRutOn> spikebike: I guess you can attribute it to the Nyquist limit
Nov 10 08:35:38 <spikebike> heh
Nov 10 08:35:38 <kRutOn> spikebike: Any particular theme?
Nov 10 08:35:49 <spikebike> nope, bone stock standard
Nov 10 08:36:05 <spikebike> I don't even have an irssi configure script
Nov 10 08:36:25 <kRutOn> ok, I've been testing with 0.8.12, so maybe 0.8.10 does something different.
Nov 10 08:36:46 <spikebike> hmm I wonder if I can apt-get upgrade
Nov 10 08:37:48 <spikebike> doesn't look like it
Nov 10 08:37:56 <kRutOn> ExpiredPopsicle: Thanks.
Nov 10 08:38:21 <spikebike> the middle of the status bar disappears, and sometimes the cursor is off by a dozen chars or so
Nov 10 08:38:40 <spikebike> it is sometimes perfect though
Nov 10 08:38:48 <ExpiredPopsicle> kRutOn: May I annoy you with a random minor feature request?
Nov 10 08:38:58 <spikebike> I usually have more than 1 irssi open
Nov 10 08:39:10 <kRutOn> spikebike: Is this after exiting and coming back into the app?
Nov 10 08:39:15 <kRutOn> ExpiredPopsicle: Sure.
Nov 10 08:39:20 <spikebike> no, just switching screens within irssi
Nov 10 08:39:32 <spikebike> I think
Nov 10 08:39:56 <spikebike> I do sometimes switch screens
Nov 10 08:40:01 <spikebike> er applications
Nov 10 08:40:09 <spikebike> do you think a screenshot would help
Nov 10 08:40:25 <kRutOn> maybe
Nov 10 08:41:34 <ExpiredPopsicle> kRutOn: I think a neat feature to have would be a text entry area (using a normal text entry widget) that only sends a line to the server after it's entered into that and then the user hits return. Typing and editing text on a line with a really laggy connection can be painful without it. The Sidekick terminal client had this feature, and I found it really handy, but I haven't seen any other ssh client for any platform implement i
Nov 10 08:41:42 <ExpiredPopsicle> Ooh. Wall of text. Sorry about that.
Nov 10 08:42:10 <kRutOn> wave of mutilation
Nov 10 08:42:21 <oyeoj> waaa-aaaaay-aaaave
Nov 10 08:42:51 <ExpiredPopsicle> But anyway...
Nov 10 08:43:22 <ExpiredPopsicle> Text entry into a normal text widget, which gets sent to the server all at once because it's a lot easier than typing on a laggy connection normally.
Nov 10 08:43:43 <kRutOn> ExpiredPopsicle: Okay, I'll put it in the list.
Nov 10 08:43:55 <ExpiredPopsicle> Awesome. You rock. :]
Nov 10 08:44:30 <oyeoj> i vote for normal terminal emulation the way it is now
Nov 10 08:44:48 <oyeoj> having a specil entry area will probably break something unforseen
Nov 10 08:44:59 <ExpiredPopsicle> I mean something toggleable.
Nov 10 08:45:03 <ExpiredPopsicle> So you can turn it on or off.
Nov 10 08:45:08 <fnordg1> i think an optional setting is best
Nov 10 08:45:22 <ExpiredPopsicle> Again, with the sidekick you could turn it on or off at any time.
Nov 10 08:45:34 <oyeoj> sounds reasonable
Nov 10 08:45:50 <ExpiredPopsicle> Because obviously things that did require explicit keystrokes (screen, etc) couldn't have that kind of thing just entered in.
Nov 10 08:46:12 <oyeoj> yah
Nov 10 08:46:25 <oyeoj> that was exactly what i was thinking
Nov 10 08:46:29 <kRutOn> The way I could do it now would be to pop it up every time you want to enter something
Nov 10 08:46:48 <ExpiredPopsicle> I imagine that would work perfectly.
Nov 10 08:46:58 <kRutOn> making it persistent on the screen would be more tricky
Nov 10 08:47:03 <DarkriftX> why has an irc client not been compiled for android yet?
Nov 10 08:47:15 <DarkriftX> lots of other stuff has :S
Nov 10 08:47:19 <kRutOn> someone here was working on a Java IRC client
Nov 10 08:47:25 <spikebike> kruton it dare not misbehave in your presence
Nov 10 08:47:37 <DarkriftX> im talking bitchx or something (i know that one is pretty big)
Nov 10 08:47:46 <ExpiredPopsicle> Thank you for listening to my request, kRutOn.
Nov 10 08:48:00 <DarkriftX> never used irssi, so no idea about that
Nov 10 08:48:03 <fnordg1> would need ncurses
Nov 10 08:48:07 <DarkriftX> oh
Nov 10 08:48:24 <spikebike> well g1 goes to sleep pretty quicj, seems sensible to run irc behind screen
Nov 10 08:48:29 <kRutOn> spikebike: There's a bug if you exit out and come back in later that the scroll regions get messed up
Nov 10 08:48:40 <fnordg1> which i will  crosss compile for nethack
Nov 10 08:48:50 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 10 08:48:53 <DarkriftX> nethack on the g1
Nov 10 08:48:59 <fnordg1> yup
Nov 10 08:49:09 <fnordg1> then samba
Nov 10 08:49:41 <ExpiredPopsicle> haha. There must be NetHack on every device.
Nov 10 08:49:52 <spikebike> well it was pretty well behaved just now, maybe the scroll region bug is it
Nov 10 08:50:39 <Gigawatts> oh, DarkriftX, i tried emailing that guy, at both rich and richd, and both bounced, so i cant get a hold of him
Nov 10 08:50:51 <DarkriftX> damn
Nov 10 08:50:54 <Gigawatts> :\
Nov 10 08:50:58 <DarkriftX> id like to see if he could make someting more custom
Nov 10 08:51:03 <Gigawatts> yeah
Nov 10 08:51:40 <Gigawatts> i found his profile and resume and such on some website where you post that stuff, but i would have to create an account to contact him
Nov 10 08:51:56 <Gigawatts> if you want to, i can send it to you
Nov 10 08:52:58 <Gigawatts> oh
Nov 10 08:52:59 <Gigawatts> lol
Nov 10 08:53:09 <Gigawatts> damn
Nov 10 08:53:15 <Gigawatts> i jsut found his email
Nov 10 08:53:19 <Gigawatts> in some pdf
Nov 10 08:53:28 <Gigawatts> :P i swear that wasnt on google 4 days ago
Nov 10 08:53:29 <fnord> who here is good at weird gcc errors?
Nov 10 08:53:53 <ExpiredPopsicle> How weird?
Nov 10 08:54:16 <oyeoj> pastebin it
Nov 10 08:54:34 <ExpiredPopsicle> Like "I forgot to put a semicolon at the end of my class declaration" weird or template class "holy crap what is that" weird?
Nov 10 08:54:45 <fnord> kk
Nov 10 08:54:51 <fnord> holy crap, really
Nov 10 08:57:26 <fnord> http://pastebin.com/m5b8a14cf
Nov 10 08:57:38 <fnord> which, come to think of it...bleh. fucking perl
Nov 10 08:57:54 <fnord> "cross compiling? what's that?"
Nov 10 08:58:26 <tauno> hey.. got my hands on a G1.. if I want to use the market, it asks me for a account/pwd - the problem is that I can only enter the pwd there.. I can't change the prepopulated account name
Nov 10 08:58:33 <tauno> where do I change that? :)
Nov 10 08:58:49 <ExpiredPopsicle> "Nonrepresentable section on output"? :o
Nov 10 08:58:53 <DarkriftX> got your hands on?
Nov 10 08:58:55 <spikebike> stole
Nov 10 08:59:02 <tauno> yeah, stole
Nov 10 08:59:08 <DarkriftX> well, you cant
Nov 10 08:59:12 <DarkriftX> its stuck in there
Nov 10 08:59:19 <tauno> what do you mean by "I can't" ?
Nov 10 08:59:20 <andatche> anyone know if the OTA update to fix root is due in the UK any time soon?
Nov 10 08:59:31 <DarkriftX> and hope the orig owner doesnt have that fun program called pinpoint running on it
Nov 10 09:00:11 <umdk1d3> wait a sec, doesnt pinpoint use text messages?
Nov 10 09:00:20 <DarkriftX> yeah
Nov 10 09:00:23 <umdk1d3> (if you change the sim, the # changes?)
Nov 10 09:00:26 <spikebike> ya
Nov 10 09:00:29 <spikebike> it should use XMPP
Nov 10 09:00:40 <DarkriftX> he ws gonna add in email support i thought
Nov 10 09:00:45 <tauno> DarkriftX, ok, let's assume that I didn't steal it for a second.. and let's assume that I even have access to password of the old account.. now how do I change it?
Nov 10 09:01:05 <DarkriftX> no need to, just enter in the pw
Nov 10 09:01:06 <andatche> tauno: you are clearly a cunt
Nov 10 09:01:10 <andatche> :P
Nov 10 09:01:45 <DarkriftX> the longer you leave it on, the more likely the old owner is tracking you with one of the many g1 tracking apps that are out there
Nov 10 09:01:47 <tauno> DarkriftX, I can use the pwd only once.. the old owner doesnt want me using this account anymore :P
Nov 10 09:02:02 <DarkriftX> he would never know how many times you used it
Nov 10 09:02:02 <kRutOn> fnord: One of your libraries is broken.
Nov 10 09:02:03 <stanter> in the android source/build env: if i want to create a new "product" i have to first make a board folder for it, right?
Nov 10 09:02:22 <DarkriftX> its checking the pw for the market, and he has no way to track that
Nov 10 09:02:28 <fnord> hrm
Nov 10 09:02:32 <tauno> DarkriftX, it's not ehtical to use the old account.. so how do I change it? ;)
Nov 10 09:02:49 <andatche> it's hardly ethical to steal it in the first place?
Nov 10 09:02:50 <umdk1d3> tauno: you could do a full data wipe and re-provision it
Nov 10 09:03:03 <fnord> it's the codesorcery gcc
Nov 10 09:03:08 <tauno> andatche, let's assume I didn't..
Nov 10 09:03:11 <umdk1d3> google around for how to do that from the bootloader, its been posted on a few blogs
Nov 10 09:03:17 <andatche> but you did
Nov 10 09:03:27 <tauno> andatche, yeah, right
Nov 10 09:03:31 <umdk1d3> tauno: ebay?
Nov 10 09:03:31 <tauno>  you got me..
Nov 10 09:03:46 <tauno> no.. someone went to the UK and got it from there..
Nov 10 09:04:23 <kRutOn> tauno: Estonian version of eBay?
Nov 10 09:04:28 * kRutOn eyes himself warily.
Nov 10 09:04:41 <stanter> has anyone customized their own "product" in the android build environment?
Nov 10 09:04:54 <tauno> kRutOn, yeah.. you can call it like that
Nov 10 09:04:58 <languish> Most Estonians I know have better moral fibre :|
Nov 10 09:05:11 <tauno> languish, ?
Nov 10 09:05:32 <DarkriftX> tauno, hold home while hitting power and rebooting, then alt+l
Nov 10 09:05:33 <languish> I'm sad to know of an exception. I enjoyed being deluded there were a decent people out there.
Nov 10 09:05:47 <tauno> languish, wait.. what?
Nov 10 09:06:29 <tauno> languish, what did I ever do that gives you an expression that I'm not a decent person? :)
Nov 10 09:06:46 <languish> Well, for starters, like the rest of us, you're on irc.
Nov 10 09:06:48 <languish> :)
Nov 10 09:06:48 <DarkriftX> admitting to stealing a brand new fairly expensive phone
Nov 10 09:06:56 <languish> and then there's that.
Nov 10 09:07:08 <tauno> I was kidding.. come on guys.. you have lost all your sense of humor? :P
Nov 10 09:07:21 <languish> G! is serious business.
Nov 10 09:07:27 <languish> !/1
Nov 10 09:07:43 * DarkriftX doesnt laugh about G1
Nov 10 09:07:49 * DarkriftX pretends to be a robot when discussing G1
Nov 10 09:07:52 * DarkriftX laughs
Nov 10 09:08:32 <tauno> I mean.. it's a legally bought phone from tmo from UK,  it's now in estonia and unlocked.. all I want is change the account that it uses to get to the Market..
Nov 10 09:08:37 <tauno> :P
Nov 10 09:08:55 <DarkriftX> if im correct, its just a gmail account
Nov 10 09:09:28 <tauno> yes, I want it to use a new gmail account.. not the one that was used when originally entering the info on the phone..
Nov 10 09:09:36 <tauno> will a wipe clear the unlock thingie?
Nov 10 09:09:54 <tauno> and Can I even re-register when I'm not on tmo?
Nov 10 09:09:59 <oyeoj> huh not all of the apps i just downloaded show up in the app display
Nov 10 09:10:10 <umdk1d3> tauno: you said it was unlocked--does that mean it works on another data provider?
Nov 10 09:10:25 <tauno> I guess so.. haven't tried it myself..
Nov 10 09:10:30 <tauno> will try.. hang on..
Nov 10 09:11:01 <languish> tauno, do you have a sim card for another GSM provider with an active account?
Nov 10 09:11:10 <oyeoj> anyone know why apps wouldnt show up?
Nov 10 09:11:10 <languish> in your locale
Nov 10 09:11:10 <umdk1d3> have you had the device for a few days?  has it tried doing the OTA update?
Nov 10 09:11:54 <tauno> languish, if you mean if I have a wokring SIM card for another provider, then yes.. I have a personal one that uses EMT (an estonian operator)
Nov 10 09:12:04 <tauno> umdk1d3, no, got it today
Nov 10 09:12:13 <languish> oyeoj, some apps do not have an icon such as "radar"
Nov 10 09:12:24 <languish> oyeoj, they support other apps "behind the scenes"
Nov 10 09:12:45 <languish> oyeoj, but it should show up in settings, manage apps
Nov 10 09:12:51 <oyeoj> yah no, these should definitely have icons
Nov 10 09:12:54 <oyeoj> they show up in settings
Nov 10 09:12:54 <tauno> ..if only I could find the place where to change the SIM card :P
Nov 10 09:13:02 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 10 09:13:04 <oyeoj> but i cant launch them except by goin into the store again
Nov 10 09:13:14 <oyeoj> and launching from there
Nov 10 09:13:20 <languish> oyeoj, if they show up in settings, then uninstall and reinstall.  Also, did you hack your android?
Nov 10 09:13:28 <oyeoj> no. unhacked
Nov 10 09:13:52 <DarkriftX> you didnt hack your android? wtf is your problem
Nov 10 09:13:54 <DarkriftX> lol, sorry
Nov 10 09:14:17 <oyeoj> i'm waiting for the jailbraeak procedure to reach homeostasis
Nov 10 09:14:19 <languish> oyeoj, you see the little tab at the bottom of your home screen?
Nov 10 09:14:32 <oyeoj> little tab?
Nov 10 09:14:35 <languish> (assuming your G1 is in vertical position, not horizontal)
Nov 10 09:14:53 <languish> oyeoj, yes the tab with a triangle inside the circle
Nov 10 09:14:56 <oyeoj> yeah, they're not showing up in the "little tab"
Nov 10 09:15:20 <languish> but are they showing up when you "open" the little tab" :P
Nov 10 09:15:46 <languish> What app is it that's not showing up. I'll see if I have a similar problem
Nov 10 09:16:02 <oyeoj> there are a couple
Nov 10 09:16:03 <oyeoj> one is
Nov 10 09:16:06 <oyeoj> "coloroid"
Nov 10 09:16:25 <oyeoj> which is a game, so it seems like it should have an icon
Nov 10 09:16:52 <oyeoj> and as i said, i can launch it from within the market
Nov 10 09:17:16 <languish> also, what RC are you on?
Nov 10 09:17:18 <oyeoj> i just dont get an icon in the app tab
Nov 10 09:17:19 <oyeoj> rc30
Nov 10 09:17:23 <languish> I'm downloading it now
Nov 10 09:17:29 <oyeoj> i appreciate it
Nov 10 09:17:56 <g1er> shows in my app tray, rc30
Nov 10 09:18:01 <oyeoj> weird
Nov 10 09:18:03 <languish> yes, it shows here too
Nov 10 09:18:16 <languish> oyeoj have you rebooted the phone?
Nov 10 09:18:24 <oyeoj> not yet. i guess it's time to try that
Nov 10 09:18:26 <languish> nod
Nov 10 09:18:35 <g1er> o.0 ut oh, found another hardware 'issue'
Nov 10 09:18:48 <languish> LOOKOUT, INCOMMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 10 09:18:51 * languish dives
Nov 10 09:18:58 <oyeoj> rebooting
Nov 10 09:18:59 <tauno> umdk1d3, tried it - it works with my SIM (I can call etc..)
Nov 10 09:19:12 <g1er> the wires hidden near the hinge, are becoming kinked!
Nov 10 09:19:25 <umdk1d3> tauno: okay cool, so its really unlocked
Nov 10 09:19:39 <umdk1d3> did you try data service, like EDGE or GPRS?
Nov 10 09:19:50 <umdk1d3> youll need data service to provision it after the wipe
Nov 10 09:19:52 <oyeoj> speaking of hardware, can anyone actually press their camera button with the screen open?
Nov 10 09:20:05 <umdk1d3> and you may need to add an APN for your specific provider
Nov 10 09:20:10 <oyeoj> ok. apps show up now.
Nov 10 09:20:43 <fnord> # file perl
Nov 10 09:20:43 <fnord> perl: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, not stripped
Nov 10 09:20:44 <fnord> muahaha
Nov 10 09:20:52 <tauno> umdk1d3, browser works fine, 3G icon is also displayed..
Nov 10 09:21:33 <umdk1d3> interesting, did you have to add an APN for your local provider?
Nov 10 09:21:59 <tauno> maybe the guy who gave it to me entered it already.. don't know
Nov 10 09:22:49 <tauno> yeah, it's in the APN settings
Nov 10 09:23:27 <umdk1d3> write down the values it has under the APN settings
Nov 10 09:23:40 <umdk1d3> you may need to reenter them after wiping the phone
Nov 10 09:23:55 <tauno> I know them :)
Nov 10 09:24:17 <umdk1d3> okay cool
Nov 10 09:24:30 <languish> (so are we accomplices now or what?) :/
Nov 10 09:24:45 <tauno> (every provider has the same APN here - "Internet" so if you change SIM's all your stuff will work like it used to.. because the APN is the same ;) )
Nov 10 09:25:01 <kRutOn> Good old Internet
Nov 10 09:25:14 <umdk1d3> then i would say youre ready to wipe it, there are instructions on various blogs out there.  excercise left to reader
Nov 10 09:25:24 <tauno> ok, thanks
Nov 10 09:27:02 <tauno> languish, yes, you are.. if the police comes, I'll have to tell them that I'm just a small guy and the big fish sits in #android under the name languish...
Nov 10 09:28:23 <oyeoj> good night internets
Nov 10 09:31:20 <languish> tauno, that's cool. I'll get to turn states evidence and name you as an even bigger shark buddy.. Estonian World Order ringleader.. :P
Nov 10 09:32:43 <languish> Then they'll send me to tahiti with a sexy female protective detail, new identity and..oh wait, that was a tv show.
Nov 10 09:33:57 <tauno> :>
Nov 10 09:34:56 * DarkriftX has had enough fun for one day and must retire for the night
Nov 10 09:34:59 <DarkriftX> gn all
Nov 10 09:35:08 <languish> o/
Nov 10 09:35:47 <kRutOn> yes, me too
Nov 10 09:36:04 <languish> \o
Nov 10 09:36:25 <kRutOn> now do the buckwheat-was-shot emoticon
Nov 10 09:36:58 <languish> I would, but that bastard's still runnin around
Nov 10 09:37:15 <kRutOn> http://www.hulu.com/watch/10389/buckwheat-buys-the-farm
Nov 10 09:37:17 <kRutOn> proof!
Nov 10 09:38:44 <languish> yeah 1980
Nov 10 09:38:58 <languish> man whatta stigma to go through life with
Nov 10 09:41:45 <languish> In 1990, the ABC newsmagazine 20/20 aired a segment purporting to be an interview with Buckwheat, now a downtrodden minimum wage grocery bagger in Arizona. However, the interview was actually with a man named Bill English, who had made a career of claiming to be the adult Buckwheat. By the next week, 20/20 had learned of their error (George "Spanky" McFarland personally contacted the media following the broadcast), that the true Buckwheat had been dead for 10 y
Nov 10 09:41:48 <languish> haha
Nov 10 09:41:52 <languish> (wonder if that cut off)
Nov 10 09:42:06 <languish> Fallout from this incident included the resignation of a 20/20 producer, and a negligence lawsuit filed by the son of William Thomas.[
Nov 10 09:48:07 <tauno> nice to see that the real device is way faster then the emulator :)
Nov 10 09:53:40 <jammr> is there any way to flip the screen on the emulator to landscape?
Nov 10 09:55:52 <cutmasta> jammr, i think in the eclipse settings
Nov 10 09:56:09 <jammr> cutmasta thanks
Nov 10 09:56:54 <tauno> jammr, ctrl + f12 in the emulator
Nov 10 09:58:09 <jammr> I agree, tauno :/ emulator is slooow
Nov 10 09:58:34 <jammr> thanks :)
Nov 10 09:59:31 <g1er_> is there a way to 'wipe' the emulator?
Nov 10 10:01:26 <umdk1d3> g1er_: yep, just delete your ~/.android
Nov 10 10:02:10 <g1er_> ah, thanks!
Nov 10 10:02:26 <umdk1d3> it will regenerate the next time you boot the emulator
Nov 10 10:03:49 <trav530> anyone know which version of the boot and recovery images JesusFreke based his modified versions on?  sha1sums make it look like it's his own build
Nov 10 10:04:28 <trav530> $ sha1sum */sbin/adbd
Nov 10 10:04:28 <trav530> e210c3bc466f2099760ae581833d53473b0cf1e6  boot-jf/sbin/adbd
Nov 10 10:04:28 <trav530> 803eac5b846d76c7eb36e3659a63199d9cd17b8e  boot-rc28/sbin/adbd
Nov 10 10:04:28 <trav530> 803eac5b846d76c7eb36e3659a63199d9cd17b8e  boot-rc29/sbin/adbd
Nov 10 10:04:28 <trav530> 803eac5b846d76c7eb36e3659a63199d9cd17b8e  boot-rc30mini/sbin/adbd
Nov 10 10:04:29 <trav530> 803eac5b846d76c7eb36e3659a63199d9cd17b8e  boot-rc30/sbin/adbd
Nov 10 10:16:09 <anno^da_> Does someone know if there will be an update for Android and the G1 that allows installing applications on the sd card? Since nearly every user is running out of memory after installing more than 20 apps.
Nov 10 10:17:52 <lmacken> fnord: Have you gotten nethack running on the g1 yet ?
Nov 10 10:18:06 <lmacken> I played for a while today through ConnectBot
Nov 10 10:19:09 <trav530> anno^da_: i personally haven't heard anything regarding that so far...
Nov 10 10:19:17 <spikebike> from android dunno, there's several places that have fixed that
Nov 10 10:19:24 <spikebike> s/places/people/
Nov 10 10:19:24 <infobot> spikebike meant: from android dunno, there's several people that have fixed that
Nov 10 10:20:03 <fnordg1> nah got distracted by work. got perl tho
Nov 10 10:21:06 <anno^da_> trav530: ok. It is just a pain having 128 MB for apps which isnt very much with the Android market in the back.
Nov 10 10:21:14 <spikebike> ya
Nov 10 10:21:20 <spikebike> if you have root there's a couple fixes
Nov 10 10:24:28 <fnordg1> trav i think he rebuilt everything in recovery
Nov 10 10:24:42 <fnordg1> except kernel
Nov 10 10:24:57 <trav530> fnordg1: ah.  but that's not necessary, right?
Nov 10 10:25:17 <trav530> (rebuilding the entire boot/recovery images)
Nov 10 10:27:15 <fnordg1> well the recovery bin is, since keys are compiled in
Nov 10 10:28:15 <trav530> ah, right.  but i'm noticing checksum diffs in every single file in both the boot and recovery images
Nov 10 10:28:41 <trav530> and weird stuff like this:
Nov 10 10:28:44 <trav530> < # enable Google-specific location features,
Nov 10 10:28:45 <trav530> < # like NetworkLocationProvider and LocationCollector
Nov 10 10:28:45 <trav530> <     setprop ro.com.google.enable_google_location_features 1
Nov 10 10:28:56 <trav530> in init scripts
Nov 10 10:29:18 <fnordg1> heh
Nov 10 10:29:24 <fnordg1> odd
Nov 10 10:29:33 <trav530> at any rate, yeah, these are probably changes between the source tree and what google pushes out
Nov 10 10:29:50 <trav530> i'll dig into the source tree.  it seems as though JF simply rebuilt everything
Nov 10 10:31:09 <trav530> are people starting to coalesce around a particular way to prevent *future* updates after RC30?
Nov 10 10:32:36 <fnordg1> self protectingreccoveryy
Nov 10 10:32:48 <Dialekt> YO YO
Nov 10 10:33:45 <cutmasta> is it possible to replace the current android desktop with a custom made one
Nov 10 10:34:03 <fnordg1> i want future updates.    and and updater that retains roott
Nov 10 10:34:10 <trav530> fnordg1: i think i'm missing a piece of the puzzle.  i know that the new recovery images only accept test keys, but is there any mechanism in place to prevent android from constantly downloading new updates in the future?
Nov 10 10:34:40 <trav530> i don't mind crafting my own updates from google's, but i just dont' want my phone to keep pestering me and/or downloading updates a million times
Nov 10 10:35:21 <fnordg1> ota handler  source isnt available
Nov 10 10:35:58 <trav530> hm, well i saw a snippet of some code on some forum somewhere that looked like it was part of the ota handler... maybe not
Nov 10 10:36:11 <fnordg1> as is now jesus30  and recovery are vulnerable
Nov 10 10:36:22 <trav530> yeah, that's what i thought
Nov 10 10:36:38 <fnordg1> so keep otacerrts renammes
Nov 10 10:36:43 <fnordg1> erm
Nov 10 10:36:55 <fnordg1> yea?
Nov 10 10:36:58 <trav530> what i don't like about that is that my phone silently downloads the updates a million times
Nov 10 10:37:22 <trav530> and if it downloads a 50mb updates a couple dozen times, tmobile will reduce my bandwidth to 56k ! :)
Nov 10 10:37:27 <fnordg1> ysame?
Nov 10 10:37:45 <trav530> ?
Nov 10 10:39:34 <fnordg1> i'd like to catch it in the act
Nov 10 10:39:47 <trav530> yeah, i suppose that wouldn't be too hard.
Nov 10 10:39:53 <trav530> write a little monitoring thingee
Nov 10 10:40:05 <trav530> where does it store the downloads anyway?
Nov 10 10:40:16 <trav530> some of them are pretty big
Nov 10 10:40:25 <fnordg1> in /cache
Nov 10 10:40:30 <trav530> ah
Nov 10 10:40:33 <languish> silly, question.
Nov 10 10:40:38 <trav530> i wondered about that.  it's a pretty big partition
Nov 10 10:41:03 <languish> I'm in the e-mail app, I am able to choose a phone number in the email and menu-c to copy it, and paste it in to contacts
Nov 10 10:41:13 <languish> there's an email address, I want to do the same with
Nov 10 10:41:17 <languish> but it won't copy
Nov 10 10:41:32 <fnordg1> jesus recovery still loads /cache/recovery/command
Nov 10 10:41:55 <trav530> languish: sorry, i haven't done any cut-n-pasting yet. :)
Nov 10 10:42:11 <languish> how do I copy it? (the phone numer was blocked by a green rectangle, the email addy was blocked by a red one.)
Nov 10 10:42:14 <trav530> fnordg1: hm?
Nov 10 10:42:25 <languish> trav, sokay :)
Nov 10 10:42:39 <fnord> that's the file ota updates install that tell it what to do
Nov 10 10:42:46 <trav530> lang: hopefully someone can help ya :)
Nov 10 10:42:50 <fnord> which is bad, since ota is bad
Nov 10 10:42:58 <fnord> it's an easy fix tho
Nov 10 10:43:44 <trav530> does the recovery partition play any role in the OTA process?  i think i'm missing something.
Nov 10 10:45:02 <Guest70718> would it be possible to ad something to wpa_supplicant.conf to connect to the tmobile1x hotspot wpa2 enterprise ap?
Nov 10 10:45:23 <fnord> yeah it does
Nov 10 10:45:39 <trav530> hm, in what way?
Nov 10 10:46:16 <Guest70718> im on my g1 now so if i dc when iget back let me know
Nov 10 10:46:42 <fnord> for commands it either parses /cache/recovery/command, or /cache/update.zip:META-INF/com/google/android/update-script (and commandline)
Nov 10 10:47:16 <fnord> Guest70718, depends on if that needs to be signed i guess
Nov 10 10:48:24 <fnord> so ota likely downloads the update, verifies, then writes a /cache/recovery/command file that tells it to look in /cache/whatever.zip:etc
Nov 10 10:48:49 <fnord> then it sets it to boot from recovery, and reboots...which probably means it's one of the root processes
Nov 10 10:49:40 <trav530> ahhhhhhhhh, okay.  so then, JF's mod is not vulnerable, right?  since the recovery image only allows things signed by the test key....?
Nov 10 10:50:55 <fnord> ./packages/apps/Updater/src/com/android/updater/PesterActivity.java:            Log.i(TAG, "Installing overdue OTA update without prompting");
Nov 10 10:50:56 <fnord>  
Nov 10 10:50:58 <fnord> oh there it is :D
Nov 10 10:51:09 <trav530> yeah, that's the snippet i saw before (!)
Nov 10 10:51:31 <fnord>  Except google can sign with test keys too
Nov 10 10:51:47 <fnord> infact rc30 modded otacerts...how?
Nov 10 10:52:58 <Guest37703> fnord i jailbroke my phone, but in theory it shouldnt mess anything up right?
Nov 10 10:53:00 <trav530> fnord: i thought about that too -- is there anything stopping us from using other keys?
Nov 10 10:53:27 <fnord> Guest37703, unless you mess it up :P
Nov 10 10:53:33 <fnord> trav530, nope
Nov 10 10:53:34 <Guest37703> lol
Nov 10 10:53:41 <trav530> rc30 mod'd otacerts?  hmm...  you're right.  weird.
Nov 10 10:54:05 <Guest37703> so other then root access what are the benefits of jailbreaking Atm?
Nov 10 10:54:14 <fnord> you do have to compile your own /sbin/recovery and replace updater
Nov 10 10:54:29 <fnord> while you're at it, might as well have it ignore the command file
Nov 10 10:54:49 <Guest37703> wait me?
Nov 10 10:55:12 <fnord> Guest37703, root access pretty much, which allows for alot. And traditional linux apps.
Nov 10 10:55:16 <fnord> nah trav
Nov 10 10:55:26 <trav530> fnord: hmm... i'll think about that!
Nov 10 10:55:30 <trav530> fnord: BTW, check this out:
Nov 10 10:55:39 <trav530> 56f81d76a232b5ac94487bc440295a659c5683bd  ./mine/releasekey.x509.pem
Nov 10 10:55:39 <trav530> 56f81d76a232b5ac94487bc440295a659c5683bd  ./rc30/releasekey.x509.pem
Nov 10 10:55:39 <trav530> 6a5349e5b6f120366bb8540285ef3bf6e0af58d3  ./rc30.zip
Nov 10 10:55:39 <trav530> 726823882b797efc4ef2b9b0f43a780879c00daf  ./mine.zip
Nov 10 10:55:45 <Guest37703> so like xorg server with gnome and kde, isnt that the traditonal now?
Nov 10 10:55:48 <trav530> the .zip has a different checksum but the file itself does not
Nov 10 10:55:58 <trav530> so it looks like they just rezipped it
Nov 10 10:56:04 <fnord> o.o
Nov 10 10:56:05 <fnord> odd
Nov 10 10:56:33 <fnord> Guest37703, like perl and such :P
Nov 10 10:56:41 <fnord> and nethack >.>
Nov 10 10:57:02 <trav530> well, i'd better get some sleep.  thanks for the info, fnord!
Nov 10 10:57:07 <fnord> npnp
Nov 10 10:57:10 <trav530> nite
Nov 10 10:57:30 <Guest37703> yah im looking foward to some netscanning apps and more intergrated applications rather then relying on the dvm
Nov 10 10:58:10 <Guest37703> or at least dvm gui for programms and an underlying c written app
Nov 10 10:59:06 <fnord> yeah. i've considered a 'su' which reads a sqlite table, that a 'set root password' app writes to
Nov 10 10:59:27 <fnord> which is pretty much the only secure root heh.
Nov 10 10:59:44 <fnord> that or passwd/shadow which is more of a pain
Nov 10 11:04:10 <Guest37703> yeah we need a secure way to get root
Nov 10 11:07:03 <Guest37703> well were still in the infancy of the g1 & android
Nov 10 11:07:46 <fnord> easiest way is to probably port su/passwd i guess
Nov 10 11:13:09 <Guest37703> yea and fix the auto telnet root access, im out for now, this is burning battery
Nov 10 11:15:13 <tauno> where oh where could I find some reference material regarding <shape> xml declarations ?
Nov 10 11:16:19 <fnord> google. ironic isn't it?
Nov 10 11:16:54 <tauno> my google karma is low today
Nov 10 11:58:42 <blau> hi
Nov 10 11:58:56 <blau> the market statistics are so messed up boo
Nov 10 11:59:22 <blau> dg SMS Screen Alert v1.0.3
Nov 10 11:59:22 <blau> Applications: Communication
Nov 10 11:59:22 <blau> (132)
Nov 10 11:59:22 <blau> 71 total
Nov 10 11:59:22 <blau> 4 active installs (5%)
Nov 10 11:59:36 <blau> 132 reviews, 71 installs...
Nov 10 12:00:12 <blau> and %5 active has to be wrong, i cant even imagine that 95% of users even know how to uninstall apps
Nov 10 12:07:21 <MichaelJE2> un..install?
Nov 10 12:08:00 <MichaelJE2> actually, my phone was running out of space I thought it would use the SD card to put apps on, but aparantly it won't
Nov 10 12:11:47 <blau> you are stuck with whats onboard for now at least
Nov 10 12:11:50 <blau> its ridiculous
Nov 10 12:11:54 <blau> soo many smart phones are gimped
Nov 10 12:12:02 <blau> when it comes to memory
Nov 10 12:12:18 <blau> my friggen sprint mogul was like that too
Nov 10 12:14:08 <tauno> is it possible to change the background color of Buttons? I mean the default orange gradient? I would just like to change the tint of it.. just replace the orange one with another but so that the border/shadow stays the same..
Nov 10 12:15:21 <blau> tauno, programatically or system wide?
Nov 10 12:18:54 <Dialekt> almost bought a psp today
Nov 10 12:24:39 <anno^da_> blau: true. For a smartphone with a market store having only 128 megs is pretty ridiculous.
Nov 10 12:25:27 <anno^da_> But that is just one thing from many feature failures
Nov 10 12:25:51 <anno^da_> http://www.androidforums.com/showthread.php?t=1639  <- one additional thing. Every 10 year old mobile has this function. :-)
Nov 10 12:26:44 <blau> i feel like i saw a send business card function somewhere
Nov 10 12:26:53 <blau> i think i saw it in the android source actually
Nov 10 12:27:37 <blau> ugh my stupid web server is down or something grrr
Nov 10 12:28:31 <blau> sigh
Nov 10 12:28:38 <blau> cant even login to the control panel
Nov 10 12:28:44 <anno^da_> Well it is just one of some very very basic features that are missing.
Nov 10 12:29:33 <blau> its not that bad
Nov 10 12:29:34 <tauno> blau, programmatically
Nov 10 12:30:17 <blau> i have too much knowledge in my head and no way to search it
Nov 10 12:31:17 <blau> i remember seeing something similar for listview
Nov 10 12:31:38 <blau> how to change the background and how to determine whether its displayed on top or behind the actual item
Nov 10 12:31:48 <blau> so id assume button would be similar
Nov 10 12:32:50 <blau> for listView it was setSelector, but i doubt thats in button
Nov 10 12:33:07 <blau> and somewhere in the docs i found a description explaining how the buttons are drawn, that might help too
Nov 10 12:34:25 <blau> cant find it, i suggest checking all the api docs in all the classes that button extends and searching for drawable
Nov 10 12:35:40 <blau> sorry i cant help more
Nov 10 12:36:53 <blau> you can try looking thru the source for button too?
Nov 10 12:40:57 <tauno> I'll try to play around with getbackground().setColorFilter(..)
Nov 10 12:41:01 <tauno> let's see what comes up..
Nov 10 12:41:05 <tauno> or out.
Nov 10 12:47:31 <tauno> ok.. that is almost the thing I want :P
Nov 10 13:00:49 <blau> lame
Nov 10 13:00:54 <blau> wtf domain suspended by administrator grr
Nov 10 13:01:33 <Laz> wtf i compiled Netcat from source and its not working in the g1 :'(
Nov 10 13:06:59 <blau> what shoddy webhosting service doesnt automatcally rebill you
Nov 10 13:07:26 <Laz> yours
Nov 10 13:10:10 <fnord> 'not working' how?
Nov 10 13:10:54 <Laz> Errors out "Expecting "(""
Nov 10 13:11:41 <rreck> blau: one doomed to failure?
Nov 10 13:14:55 <blau> that sounds about right
Nov 10 13:15:20 <kslater> it's a good thing Android isn't popular or this channel would be *really* crowded
Nov 10 13:15:45 <blau> lol
Nov 10 13:16:07 <blau> dont worry itll fill up as soon as someone makes an irc client that defaults to here
Nov 10 13:16:19 <kslater> hehe
Nov 10 13:16:24 <kslater> hadn't thought of that
Nov 10 13:16:50 <blau> someone here was working on an irc client
Nov 10 13:17:28 <Laz> irssi works
Nov 10 13:17:35 <Dialekt> lol
Nov 10 13:17:39 <Dialekt> man
Nov 10 13:17:46 <Dialekt> i wanna give android a shot
Nov 10 13:17:54 <Dialekt> but im too scared
Nov 10 13:18:10 <kslater> scared of what?
Nov 10 13:18:10 <Laz> of?
Nov 10 13:20:59 <blau> how does texting a business card work?
Nov 10 13:21:02 <Dialekt> BUGS
Nov 10 13:21:07 <Dialekt> buggy plat
Nov 10 13:21:20 <blau> its not nearly as buggy as windows mobile
Nov 10 13:22:06 <Dialekt> fuck windows
Nov 10 13:22:24 <Dialekt> but i dunno..im pretty sold on that blackberry
Nov 10 13:22:45 <Dialekt> how are the social networking frap crap apps on the google phone?
Nov 10 13:26:14 <zewm_> explain social networking
Nov 10 13:26:25 <zewm_> myspace/facebook or aim/msn?
Nov 10 13:27:15 * zewm_ is away. [lp!on]
Nov 10 13:27:16 * zewm_ is back. [gone 17h 2m 45s]
Nov 10 13:27:26 * zewm_ is back. [gone 17h 2m 55s]
Nov 10 13:29:22 <blau> myspace sucks ive never been able to login,and everyone who has complains about it being slow
Nov 10 13:29:38 <blau> has anyone found a way, do disable the keyguard?
Nov 10 13:29:55 <blau> in the normal settings, not programatically
Nov 10 13:30:29 <zewm_> blau: you mean like when you have to press menu to make it go away/
Nov 10 13:30:57 <blau> yeah
Nov 10 13:31:40 <zewm_> settings > sounds and display > screen timout > never timeout
Nov 10 13:32:21 <zewm_> but it will still have the keyguard if you press the red cancel button to shut off the screen
Nov 10 13:32:31 <blau> ahh i want that gone too :(
Nov 10 13:32:39 <zewm_> learn to code :)
Nov 10 13:32:52 <blau> zewm, i can disable it programatically
Nov 10 13:33:13 <blau> but the keyguard api seems to be so buggy that i dont want to do that
Nov 10 13:35:06 <blau> specifically, i cant figure out how to turn the keyguard back on once its off lol
Nov 10 13:38:28 <blau> i want a google job
Nov 10 13:43:21 <blau> android.intent.action.SCREEN_ON doesnt seem to work
Nov 10 13:43:22 <blau> grr
Nov 10 14:01:07 <ugarit> I'm still on rc19 and I got my phone on oct 24th.  When should I be getting the latest OTA?  Do I need to be in a 3G area to get it?
Nov 10 14:01:38 <michaelnovakjr> it'll come... i'm still on rc19 too
Nov 10 14:01:46 <KNY> ugarit, I had rc28 and I got the update this morning
Nov 10 14:02:13 <blau> novak, hows the irc client?
Nov 10 14:02:53 <michaelnovakjr> its coming along excellent
Nov 10 14:03:15 <languish> :D
Nov 10 14:03:27 <blau> have you played around with android.intent.action.SCREEN_ON ?
Nov 10 14:03:49 <michaelnovakjr> nope
Nov 10 14:03:51 <ugarit> so u are now on rc28?
Nov 10 14:04:02 <blau> i cant seem to get it to work, im expecting my broadcast receiver to receive something when the screen comes on, but that doesnt happen
Nov 10 14:04:27 <michaelnovakjr> its in your manifest properly?
Nov 10 14:04:47 <blau> yeah, as far as I can tell I dont need a permission for it
Nov 10 14:05:02 <blau> and if I switch the receiver to something else it works fine
Nov 10 14:05:10 <michaelnovakjr> hm
Nov 10 14:05:12 <blau> SCREEN_OFF doesnt work either
Nov 10 14:05:22 <blau> but they are mentioned in the api docs, so id expect them to work
Nov 10 14:05:32 <blau> tried emulator and actual device
Nov 10 14:06:19 <Delvien> anyone find a working vncviewer on android?
Nov 10 14:06:34 <fnord> nope
Nov 10 14:06:54 <fnord> they're X based
Nov 10 14:07:16 <Delvien> what about irc client i have to ssh into my server to irssi :(
Nov 10 14:08:00 <blau> michaelnovakjr is working on an irc client
Nov 10 14:08:14 <Delvien> ircell aye
Nov 10 14:08:24 <michaelnovakjr> yes, i'm working on it..... it'll be ready soon
Nov 10 14:09:50 <Delvien> *patiently awaits*
Nov 10 14:10:07 <fnord> try http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/t/tinyirc/tinyirc_1.1.dfsg.1.orig.tar.gz
Nov 10 14:10:09 <fnord> :P
Nov 10 14:10:33 <Delvien> im on my phone cant click that.
Nov 10 14:11:39 <michaelnovakjr> fnord what is it?
Nov 10 14:12:15 <Delvien> from the website tinyirc looks like a windows irc mostly.
Nov 10 14:12:23 <fnord> silly ncurses irc that won't even build correctly on centos
Nov 10 14:13:06 <ugarit> on rc19 anyone have the issue that once the ringer volume is put on vibrate and then restored to max, sms messages no longer notify in the notification area and no longer "beep"?
Nov 10 14:13:09 <Delvien> irssi >all
Nov 10 14:14:14 <Delvien> i dont even know how to update my g1's firmware
Nov 10 14:15:35 <blau> ugarit
Nov 10 14:15:51 <licksjp> hello
Nov 10 14:15:53 <blau> ugarit, that would explain why a bunch of people complani that my program killed sms sounds
Nov 10 14:16:16 <licksjp> I am Japanese
Nov 10 14:16:24 <ugarit> blau: the only way I can get it work again is by restarting the phone :-(
Nov 10 14:17:02 <ugarit> blau which one is your program?
Nov 10 14:17:43 <licksjp> I am android beginer
Nov 10 14:17:44 <zewm_> Delvien: It updates automatically over the air (OTA Update)
Nov 10 14:18:29 <blau> SMS Screen Alert
Nov 10 14:29:32 <languish> haha the german ebook in the market
Nov 10 14:30:03 <languish> it needed more pictures
Nov 10 14:30:05 <languish> lulz
Nov 10 14:32:48 <languish> very simple, well done execution for it though
Nov 10 14:35:46 <blau> anyone got the android source on the computer now?
Nov 10 14:35:49 <blau> and can search for me?
Nov 10 14:35:57 <blau> i need a value of a string
Nov 10 14:36:15 <languish> Debian & Android Together on G1 http://www.saurik.com/id/10
Nov 10 14:36:19 <languish> interesting
Nov 10 14:38:14 <SplasPood> hrm... the gimp doesn't seem to wanna read either that initlogo.rle or the .raw version '
Nov 10 14:39:25 <Damm> SplasPood, is initlogo.rle gzipped perhaps?
Nov 10 14:39:50 <SplasPood> well it was zip'd and file doesn't know what to make of it
Nov 10 14:39:54 <SplasPood> just thinks it's 'data'
Nov 10 14:39:56 <SplasPood> so I'd guess no
Nov 10 14:41:00 <SplasPood> yea, just confirmed, its not
Nov 10 14:41:25 <SplasPood> I've got the sample HackDroid logo on mine, which is kinda cute, but I wanted to make my own
Nov 10 14:42:13 <Damm> ah
Nov 10 14:42:51 <Dialekt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKTw-UHalZc
Nov 10 14:42:57 <Dialekt> listen to this shit lady
Nov 10 14:42:58 <Dialekt> lol
Nov 10 14:43:49 <Damm> hrm, well kernel/drivers/video/logo has the logos there in ppm format (netpbm)
Nov 10 14:44:00 <Damm> don't know if that makes a difference or not
Nov 10 14:45:13 <Damm> yeah it's using /dev/fb0 so I doubt it's really a rle file.
Nov 10 14:45:32 <Damm> SplasPood, i'd say find out how the hackdroid logo was made.
Nov 10 14:46:03 <blau> anyone got the source code on their ccomputer?
Nov 10 14:46:37 <Damm> SplasPood, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443994
Nov 10 14:46:51 <SplasPood> Damm: Well he didn't specify what app, I don't think
Nov 10 14:46:59 <SplasPood> Damm: thats obv where I got it from in the first place ;)
Nov 10 14:47:08 <Damm> SplasPood, right, but that tells you how.
Nov 10 14:47:22 <SplasPood> to convert from .raw to .rle
Nov 10 14:47:24 <SplasPood> yea?
Nov 10 14:47:34 * Damm nods
Nov 10 14:47:44 <SplasPood> hrm
Nov 10 14:47:44 <Damm> as well as res/images
Nov 10 14:47:46 <SplasPood> thats odd tho
Nov 10 14:47:46 <SplasPood> If you place a file titled initlogo.rle in the root directory of your boot image, the phone will display this image upon boot (after the "G1" image and before the Android animation). In order to create this file, you need to create a 320x480 image in Photoshop or Gimp and save it as a "raw image" file. You then need to compress that image with the program to565. More details on that here.
Nov 10 14:47:53 <SplasPood> the gimp won't read it..
Nov 10 14:48:11 <SplasPood> the 'raw' version
Nov 10 14:48:12 <Damm> right it says to create
Nov 10 14:48:13 <Damm> not edit
Nov 10 14:48:24 <SplasPood> yea well I wanted something to work off of ;)
Nov 10 14:48:43 <SplasPood> And I'd assume if it could write it, it could read it
Nov 10 14:48:58 <Damm> it's all related to http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/build.git;a=tree;f=tools/rgb2565
Nov 10 14:49:19 <Damm> it's a modified format
Nov 10 14:49:30 <Damm> so unless you want to take the source and write a unconverter
Nov 10 14:49:35 <Damm> you have to start from scratch
Nov 10 14:50:01 <SplasPood> I assumed the .raw format attached to the original thread was the original unconverted version
Nov 10 14:50:11 <SplasPood> I didn't expect to be able to open the .rle
Nov 10 14:50:27 <Damm> well does your version of gimp support raw?
Nov 10 14:58:23 <SplasPood> Damm: it claims to, but this was around 4am... maybe it was all a dream
Nov 10 15:02:25 <Poohba> anyone know of a way to add files to an email other than using imap?
Nov 10 15:04:32 <rreck> does the g1 just plain hate wep or something?
Nov 10 15:04:48 <rreck> scratch that its working
Nov 10 15:05:46 <Disconnect> it plain hates wifi in general it seems like
Nov 10 15:06:59 <rreck> no shit
Nov 10 15:09:26 <michaelnovakjr> wep works just fine for m
Nov 10 15:09:27 <michaelnovakjr> e
Nov 10 15:09:40 <blau> i havent tried wifi
Nov 10 15:09:46 <vol> I haven't had wifi problems
Nov 10 15:09:53 <vol> but I haven't really tried more than one or two routers
Nov 10 15:11:14 <streeter> I just got a netgear wireless router, and it won't serve DHCP to any Linux machine, including my android
Nov 10 15:12:16 <streeter> And btw, netgear's technical support is the worst customer support experience I've had in my life.
Nov 10 15:12:16 <vol> that's more a router problem
Nov 10 15:12:29 <vol> my parents' router will actually freeze if I try and connect to it using linux
Nov 10 15:12:41 <vol> (but it works fine with the N800, which runs on linux?...)
Nov 10 15:13:29 <streeter> vol: right. I didn't have any problem as far as authentication, etc. just couldn't get an IP address from it.
Nov 10 15:17:15 <Disconnect> i can carry my n800 and e90 around the house with no problems (2 APs, different channels, same essid, same wpa2 key). i can barely get the g1 to connect when i'm sitting right next to one ap much less roam between the 2.
Nov 10 15:17:36 <vol> hmm, I have noticed the G1's wifi radio is somewhat weak.
Nov 10 15:21:18 <rreck> you must have the modified recovery tool THEN you can add the modified rc30 to keep r00t, is that correct?
Nov 10 15:21:58 <andyross> 1+ h31ps 1f u sp311 root c0rr3c+ly
Nov 10 15:23:05 <rreck> 1+ h31pz 3v3n m0r3 1f y0u just @nsw3r
Nov 10 15:23:55 <blau> noobz
Nov 10 15:23:57 <andyross> But yes: you need to flash a custom recovery partition that will accept packages not signed by google.  Then you update from the modified package as you would for a typical sdcard update.  Someone put up a reasonably complete list of steps on xda-devlopers.com
Nov 10 15:24:21 <andyross> This thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443797
Nov 10 15:24:28 <blau> andy: wait what do you mean accept packages not signed by google?
Nov 10 15:24:43 <rreck> thanks andy, i will try to pay it forward once i gain a useful understanding
Nov 10 15:25:02 <andyross> The official recovery partition won't flash something without a signature from an upstream certificate.  The modified tool adds the test keys from the SDK to the list of allowed certs.
Nov 10 15:25:10 <blau> is there any possibility of that allowing me to use the calendar provider from the android source?
Nov 10 15:25:31 <rreck> he means the modified rc30 is not a normal release, its likely you dont want an OTA to update you and lose your changes
Nov 10 15:25:50 <rreck> you can always re-sign a release to make it install
Nov 10 15:27:14 <blau> the market is so buggy ugh
Nov 10 15:27:27 <blau> comments about my apps from like weeks ago are showing up as posting today
Nov 10 15:27:43 <languish> hence beta
Nov 10 15:27:44 <languish> :|
Nov 10 15:28:05 <blau> it was bette rwhen they didnt show old comments
Nov 10 15:30:18 <vol> Is there anything from google that's not beta (aside from search) ?
Nov 10 15:31:59 <blau> lol
Nov 10 15:32:32 <blau> i thought gmail was out of beta
Nov 10 15:32:37 <blau> i guess not though
Nov 10 15:34:40 * zewm_ is away.. autoaway/10m [lp!on]
Nov 10 15:35:41 <streeter> hm. my phone just rebooted itself
Nov 10 15:35:49 <blau> i had that once :(
Nov 10 15:45:25 <vol> Is there a way to have the emulator automatically mount an sdcard image instead of having to specify it? I created an image called sdcard.img in the tools/lib/images dir, but it does not automount it.
Nov 10 15:46:23 <jasta> vol: ~/.android/SDK-1.0/sdcard.img is the default path it checks
Nov 10 15:48:27 <vol> on windows as well?
Nov 10 15:48:39 <jasta> i don't know about windows, but i'm sure there's an equivalent.
Nov 10 15:48:54 <jasta> just figure out where your emulator.cfg, userdata-qemu.img, etc are.
Nov 10 15:48:59 <jasta> and put an sdcard.img along with them
Nov 10 15:49:00 <vol> hmm
Nov 10 15:49:14 <tethridge> jasta, how's it going?
Nov 10 15:49:23 <jasta> pretty good
Nov 10 15:49:32 <jasta> you?
Nov 10 15:49:39 <rreck> i think the thread showing how to update would make tons more sense if it said what env you are doing things in instead of assuming everyone just knows
Nov 10 15:49:59 <jasta> rreck: what thread?
Nov 10 15:51:56 <rreck> jasta:  http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443797
Nov 10 15:52:00 <vol> jasta: Documents and Settings/username/Local Settings/Application Data/Android/SDK-1.0
Nov 10 15:52:16 <zer0her0> hey
Nov 10 15:52:40 <rreck> to me personally means the g1, i dont use windows unless i have to and i wouldnt put things on "my desktop" because that is an unorganized approach
Nov 10 15:52:48 <zer0her0> http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/11/incredibly-dang.html
Nov 10 15:52:49 <rreck> desktop means the g1 to me
Nov 10 15:52:50 <zer0her0> is this real?
Nov 10 15:53:04 <jasta> rreck: *ugh*, stop whining.
Nov 10 15:53:25 <vol> ...
Nov 10 15:53:27 * vol tries
Nov 10 15:53:49 <rreck> its hardly whining to point out the instuctions could be improved
Nov 10 15:53:53 <vol> doesn't seem to work.
Nov 10 15:54:12 <zer0her0> vol: the reboot?
Nov 10 15:54:28 <andyross> Not to be too snarky, but do you put your G1 on a "desk"? :)
Nov 10 15:54:44 <vol> yes
Nov 10 15:54:56 <jasta> zer0her0: had you heard about the root exploit?  well, that's the same thing just repackaged as a new sort of bug.
Nov 10 15:54:58 <vol> no reboot.
Nov 10 15:55:10 <jasta> zer0her0: and it already is fixed in RC30, downloading to phones now.
Nov 10 15:55:15 <zer0her0> jasta: yea
Nov 10 15:55:19 <rreck> actually its on the floor, i new to both environments
Nov 10 15:55:20 <stanter> anyone have an idea where android's touchscreen code maybe. is their a central event handling engine that feeds processes? or does each process that is in focus open event0 itself?
Nov 10 15:55:25 <vol> wait, this is REAL?
Nov 10 15:55:31 <stanter> *might be
Nov 10 15:55:32 <zer0her0> i've been traveling the last 2 weeks, and a good friend just IMed in a panic about this
Nov 10 15:55:35 <michaelnovakjr> yes its real
Nov 10 15:55:36 <jasta> vol: yes, of course it is.  how do you think that the root exploit worked?
Nov 10 15:55:37 <vol> oh
Nov 10 15:55:37 <wastrel> vol: 100% real
Nov 10 15:55:41 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Nov 10 15:55:42 * vol just checked, has rc30
Nov 10 15:55:42 <zer0her0> he wants one i was like this doesn't sound right
Nov 10 15:55:45 <blau> stanter, do you happen to have the android code available now?
Nov 10 15:55:51 <michaelnovakjr> you can prevent it by doing the following.....
Nov 10 15:55:52 <stanter> yes actually i do
Nov 10 15:55:54 <vol> I thought someone was doing something sensational and wired picked up on it like usual w/o fact checking
Nov 10 15:55:54 <jasta> vol: the root exploit involves just simply typing telnetd, then connecting to a telnetd process now running as root of course
Nov 10 15:55:57 <michaelnovakjr> <return>cat<return>
Nov 10 15:56:02 <michaelnovakjr> that'll stop the logging
Nov 10 15:56:11 <stanter> i just cgrepped got some plausible points
Nov 10 15:56:14 <vol> I thought the root exploit involved adb shell, then running telnetd :\
Nov 10 15:56:25 <jasta> vol: no, because that would run telnetd as an unprivileged user
Nov 10 15:56:27 <vol> oops.
Nov 10 15:56:29 <stanter> but all in the kernel, which isn't what i am looking for
Nov 10 15:56:43 <vol> yeah, I suppose you're right, thought maybe it had suid bit set
Nov 10 15:56:44 <jasta> that's what's so stupid about this bug.  it's being reported twice because people are too dense to realize its the same issue
Nov 10 15:57:09 <jasta> sensationalized to average joe users, and as some miraculous, clever hack to others.
Nov 10 15:57:15 <zer0her0> jasta: that's what i figured
Nov 10 15:57:27 <zer0her0> i didn't know it was already patched as i was traveling and limited internet
Nov 10 15:57:33 <defcon_> should I rename otacerts with the rc30 mod 1.1 ?
Nov 10 15:57:36 <ttuttle> any progress on an irc client?
Nov 10 15:57:54 <michaelnovakjr> ttuttle: working on it
Nov 10 15:57:55 <jasta> zer0her0: put your phone on wifi for a while, its pretty likely you'll be prompted to update after some time
Nov 10 15:57:59 <stanter> blau: would you happen to have an idea about this?
Nov 10 15:58:03 <ttuttle> defcon_: mod 1.1? what's that?
Nov 10 15:58:05 <zer0her0> jasta: don't have a phone yet :(
Nov 10 15:58:09 <tethridge> jasta, I'm good.  I was wondering how five development is going?
Nov 10 15:58:12 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr: cool
Nov 10 15:58:23 <defcon_> its the root rc30 mod
Nov 10 15:58:35 <defcon_> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713
Nov 10 15:58:36 <jasta> tethridge: great, i just wrapped up a bunch of email changes and am moving back into five.  fixed a bunch of little bugs this last week too
Nov 10 15:58:39 <michaelnovakjr> ttuttle: i'll let you know when it works pretty well... if you are interested in testing it out
Nov 10 15:58:42 <ttuttle> defcon_: oic.
Nov 10 15:58:55 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr: oh of course. i'm an irc addict ;-)
Nov 10 15:59:06 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Nov 10 15:59:37 <tethridge> jasta, cool.  So you have it working on your phone?  By working, I mean it's usable?
Nov 10 16:00:28 <stanter> frameworks/base/libs/ui/EventHup.cpp look plausible. anyone know if i am digging the wrong hole?
Nov 10 16:00:54 <blau> whats five development
Nov 10 16:01:30 <blau> anyone with the source on their machine, able to mail me Bookmarks.java?
Nov 10 16:02:02 <stanter> blau: i probable can
Nov 10 16:02:19 <andyross> blau: there's a browsable tree at http://android.kernel.org
Nov 10 16:02:32 <ttuttle> also, any work on a PDF reader?
Nov 10 16:02:45 <blau> andy, dont know where bookmarks.java is in the tree though
Nov 10 16:03:14 <blau> and im anxious to test something out before i get home today
Nov 10 16:03:16 <blau> lol
Nov 10 16:04:04 <jasta> tethridge: working on official ogg/flac/wma support, and also a special mode for when youre on EDGE to reencode even mp3s to a lower quality
Nov 10 16:04:11 <jasta> and then download the originals next time youre back on 3G
Nov 10 16:04:20 <jasta> tethridge: oh yeah, i've been using it personally for weeks
Nov 10 16:04:25 <tethridge> cool
Nov 10 16:04:26 <jasta> tethridge: i even went out and bought a new stereo for my car :)
Nov 10 16:04:45 <tethridge> one that takes usb input?
Nov 10 16:04:52 <potatodemon> Is it possible to run Python scripts on my Android?
Nov 10 16:05:03 <tethridge> jasta, how do you have it connected to your car?
Nov 10 16:05:28 <vol> potatodemon: you could recompile the python interpreter using the toolchain
Nov 10 16:05:34 <jasta> auxillary through an adapter i bought online which has aux out and a car charger plugged in
Nov 10 16:05:45 <vol> I don't know if someone's done it already yet
Nov 10 16:08:25 <jasta> tethridge: the charger being hooked up to is really nice actually.  on my way to and from work my phone gets a nice little boost :)
Nov 10 16:08:33 <stanter> blau: i got a few *Bookmark*java hits but nothing exactly named Bookmarks.java
Nov 10 16:08:53 <blau> i just found it
Nov 10 16:09:00 <blau> wasnt in a BookMarks.java:(
Nov 10 16:09:06 <blau> was in Settings.java
Nov 10 16:09:13 <stanter> well that explains it
Nov 10 16:09:41 <blau> was looking for how to automagically add to the quicklaunch settings
Nov 10 16:09:56 <blau> 1863     public static final class Bookmarks implements BaseColumns
Nov 10 16:10:32 <jasta> tethridge: it definitely struggles on EDGE.  thats why im working on a mode to download special lower quality mp3s wehn thats lal youve got, and upgrade them to the originals later.
Nov 10 16:11:37 <jasta> 128kbps should actually work (EDGE in my tests is between 110-130kbps).  most of my music is 192kbps.
Nov 10 16:20:13 <herriojr> has anyone figured out how to update their application on-the-fly?
Nov 10 16:20:19 <herriojr> or if it is possible?
Nov 10 16:21:05 <zhobbs> herriojr: you just need to check for updates and send the user to the Market
Nov 10 16:21:29 <ttuttle> hey, is the author of connectbot here?
Nov 10 16:22:04 <zhobbs> ttuttle: you're looking for umdk1d3
Nov 10 16:22:28 <ttuttle> zhobbs: ah
Nov 10 16:23:04 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: connectbot is friggin awesome
Nov 10 16:23:23 * jasta really likes it
Nov 10 16:23:32 <jasta> lots of little things make it great
Nov 10 16:23:32 <zhobbs> yeah, really well done
Nov 10 16:23:37 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: the keyboard shortcuts are excellent
Nov 10 16:23:59 <jasta> i actually used it this morning to fix an issue at work without getting otu of bed :)
Nov 10 16:24:03 <jasta> that was fuckin sweet
Nov 10 16:24:23 <mmattice> the cut and paste in it needs some massive work
Nov 10 16:24:36 <zhobbs> haha, sometimes I check my email from bed to see if I really need to get out of bed or not
Nov 10 16:24:49 <zhobbs> when my alarm goes off
Nov 10 16:24:58 <jasta> you do that...sometimes?
Nov 10 16:25:15 <jasta> that's what i've done every day for the last 2 years hehe
Nov 10 16:25:37 <zhobbs> heh, now that I work from home I'm doing it more
Nov 10 16:26:46 <jasta> why do you think i worked so hard to get push e-mail support? :)
Nov 10 16:26:54 <jasta>  i need my phoen to wake me up when i get an email :)
Nov 10 16:27:19 <jasta> when my alarm goes off i usually go back to bed with my phone right next to my ear :)
Nov 10 16:27:35 <stanter> emails beats alarm
Nov 10 16:28:22 <zhobbs> The hours of my coworkers aren't consistent...I don't want to get woken up at 4 AM for an email
Nov 10 16:28:46 <jasta> i only put it by my ear when im supposed to get woken up
Nov 10 16:29:09 <jasta> otherwise its on my night stand and i wont hear it
Nov 10 16:31:53 <oyeoj> i wish there was a good way to see what progs were running... cause my gps is going pretty much constantly
Nov 10 16:34:46 <zhobbs> oyeoj: there's pservice view, or ps
Nov 10 16:36:39 <potatodemon> Is there a simple program that will write my GPS cords to a text file, with a time stamp.  Basically I want to sync the time on my camera and the android so I can add geo tags to my photos with a Python script comparing the time stamps on the files.
Nov 10 16:37:19 <jt436> zhobbs: how's your game coming along?
Nov 10 16:38:32 <stanter> EventHub.cpp looks to be like the central keyboard/mouse/touchscreen event handler for Android. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Nov 10 16:41:43 <blau> stater, dont think too many people here have delved into the android code
Nov 10 16:41:52 <zhobbs> jt436: haven't started on it....
Nov 10 16:41:54 <blau> i know when I ask related questions, noone typically answers
Nov 10 16:42:14 <cworth> zhobbs: Yeah. What I was looking for last night was a setting for "Don't make audio mail notifications within this time range". That option doesn't appear to exist yet.
Nov 10 16:42:15 <Disconnect> sweet. adding cacert root.crt to the keystore worked as expected :) (bug 1016 if anyone else has keys they want added)
Nov 10 16:42:18 <stanter> blau: thanks. what are your current goals with tinkering with the source?
Nov 10 16:42:47 <blau> stanter, mostly just finding out how stuff was done and how to do it in my own apps
Nov 10 16:42:53 <zhobbs> jt436: project kinda got delayed....was thinking about working on a simple open source game...
Nov 10 16:43:03 <stanter> blau: makes sense
Nov 10 16:43:07 <blau> like today ive been trying to figure out how to set my own quicklaunch settings
Nov 10 16:43:33 <blau> i was trying to get a work around for not having a calendar provider, but no luck so far
Nov 10 16:43:50 <blau> i tried to see how keyguardmanager works, but it just seems broken to me
Nov 10 16:44:15 <stanter> i have been trying to port android to a custom(just came out of fab) device, i have the dashboard(what is it called anyway?) running
Nov 10 16:44:17 <jt436> zhobbs: bummer :(... yeah you should do that instead
Nov 10 16:44:36 <ttuttle> romainguy__: you took a lot of the standard wallpapers, right?
Nov 10 16:44:38 <stanter> but my touchscreen is out of wack so i need to confirm that android is confused by what my touchscreen says
Nov 10 16:44:45 <blau> stanter, wow that sounds awesome
Nov 10 16:44:57 <vol> potatodemon: that's actually not a bad idea for a program
Nov 10 16:45:00 <ttuttle> romainguy__: are we going to get any more? they're really nice.
Nov 10 16:45:01 <vol> and it's pretty simple to do
Nov 10 16:45:08 <vol> I'm a little busy though, so I can't get that for you
Nov 10 16:45:10 <vol> but I bet someone can : )
Nov 10 16:45:57 <stanter>  blau: its been fun, especially the kernel porting part (rolling eyes) not too bad really
Nov 10 16:47:44 <dd94300> where is the source code for the volume buttons? I think Disconnect mentioned yesterday, I forgot...../framework/base/core?
Nov 10 16:47:51 <Disconnect> wasn't me
Nov 10 16:48:10 <dd94300> may be jasta then
Nov 10 16:48:10 <herriojr> zhobbs: how do I send the user to my applications download page in the market?  I thought we couldn't do that
Nov 10 16:48:35 <herriojr> *application's
Nov 10 16:48:42 <zhobbs> herriojr: you can
Nov 10 16:48:53 <herriojr> I guess I was misinformed :)
Nov 10 16:49:34 <zhobbs> herriojr: ACTION_VIEW, uri like: http://market.android.com/details?id=1605511962971526173 or http://market.android.com/search?q=hello
Nov 10 16:49:52 <herriojr> is the market code part of the open source?  if so, I can look it up there
Nov 10 16:49:59 <zhobbs> herriojr: no, it's not
Nov 10 16:50:18 <herriojr> ok
Nov 10 16:50:57 <herriojr> do they also allow for an update check, or do we have to handle that with our own servers?
Nov 10 16:51:25 <zhobbs> herriojr: you gotta do that on your own :(
Nov 10 16:51:46 <herriojr> ok, np, I'll have a server anyways :)
Nov 10 16:52:00 <herriojr> maybe we can get them to add that to the next marketplace version
Nov 10 16:52:06 <zhobbs> herriojr: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/
Nov 10 16:52:42 <herriojr> zhobbs: thanks
Nov 10 16:53:27 <herriojr> also, do I pass the url to the marketplace application via an intent?
Nov 10 16:53:50 <herriojr> or do I do it through an http socket?
Nov 10 16:54:25 <zhobbs> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Intent.html
Nov 10 16:54:47 <KNY> how does one start up an application using adb?
Nov 10 16:55:15 <vol> one does not
Nov 10 16:55:25 <vol> or one uses adb shell and runs shell commands
Nov 10 16:55:51 <herriojr> the plugin does it, so I'd suspect you can do it manually
Nov 10 16:56:19 <KNY> herriojr, that's what I thought
Nov 10 16:56:27 <zhobbs> KNY: adb shell, then see "am --help"
Nov 10 16:56:35 <KNY> zhobbs, excellent. thanks
Nov 10 16:56:38 <herriojr> I have the plugin source, let me check it really quick
Nov 10 16:57:27 <Disconnect> hahaha http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1207 .. check comment #12. wtf is wrong with this guy??
Nov 10 16:57:55 <KNY> he's either joking or a tin-foil-hatter
Nov 10 16:58:14 <blau> stanter: still here?
Nov 10 16:58:24 <wastrel> they're sending your passwords and credit cards to the CIA
Nov 10 16:58:26 <mikez5> reboot
Nov 10 16:58:28 <stanter> blau: yes
Nov 10 16:58:32 <mikez5> (just checking)
Nov 10 16:58:35 <herriojr> lol
Nov 10 16:58:36 <stanter> blau: whats up man?
Nov 10 16:58:39 <blau> could you do a quick search for DEFAULT_BOOKMARK_FOLDER
Nov 10 16:58:43 <vol> #12: cat /dev/urandom > /sdcard/fillup.txt :P
Nov 10 16:58:44 <blau> i need the string value :)
Nov 10 16:58:54 <stanter> java files or in the C?
Nov 10 16:58:57 <vol> I won't even mention /dev/sound
Nov 10 16:58:57 <blau> java files
Nov 10 16:59:23 <stanter> its running
Nov 10 16:59:28 <blau> thanks
Nov 10 17:02:08 <stanter> slow...virtual machine
Nov 10 17:02:11 <stanter> @default
Nov 10 17:02:28 <stanter> blau: @default
Nov 10 17:02:43 <blau> thanks
Nov 10 17:04:03 <KNY> zhobbs, I'm doing this: "am start -D -a android.intent.action.MAIN -c android.intent.category.LAUNCHER -n my.package.app/my.package.app.App" (from watching logcat) but it's waiting for the debugger--how do I stop that?
Nov 10 17:04:21 <rreck> what do i do if  i get "protocol failure" when trying to adb push recovery_testkey.img /data/local/recovery.img ?
Nov 10 17:04:51 <zhobbs> KNY: is that what the -D flag is?
Nov 10 17:05:04 <KNY> oh, possibly. --help doesn't list it without the -D
Nov 10 17:05:16 <KNY> ugh, why does this shell not let me move my cursor back?
Nov 10 17:05:39 <KNY> zhobbs, that was it. Thanks again!
Nov 10 17:05:44 <zhobbs> :)
Nov 10 17:08:45 <blau> woot got quicklaunch shortcutting working yipyipyip
Nov 10 17:12:37 <ttuttle> umdk1d3: can you make it so holding the trackball lets me type multiple keys with ctrl in connectbot? i often need to repeat ^n in irssi.
Nov 10 17:13:25 <unix_lappy> i wonder, would it be possible to long press on the screen and use the trackball to zoom?
Nov 10 17:13:44 <unix_lappy> or some variation on the above...
Nov 10 17:14:37 <vol> Is anyone else able to read files on the sdcard?
Nov 10 17:14:52 <KNY> vol, yeah
Nov 10 17:14:53 <blau> lappy, i played around with a proof of concept to zoom in and out when you swipe along the bottom of the screen
Nov 10 17:14:55 <blau> i liked it
Nov 10 17:15:02 <vol> File inFile = new File("/sdcard/mydir", myname); boolean exists = inFile.exists();
Nov 10 17:15:05 <vol> exists comes back as false
Nov 10 17:15:10 <vol> but I'm pretty sure it's there....
Nov 10 17:15:31 <KNY> vol, I'm just using new File("/sdcard/foo.txt")
Nov 10 17:15:41 <KNY> your SD card isn't mounted to your computer, is it?
Nov 10 17:16:27 <vol> KNY: no, I'm doing emulator right now
Nov 10 17:16:30 <romainguy_> vol: a good habit is to use Environment.getExternalStorage() instead of hardcoding /sdcard
Nov 10 17:16:34 <vol> there IS an sdcard
Nov 10 17:16:43 <vol> romainguy_: oh? Let me look at that, thanks
Nov 10 17:17:50 <KNY> vol, just to check, but you have the SD card file being mounted by the emulator, right?
Nov 10 17:17:57 <vol> yes :)
Nov 10 17:18:04 <vol> I'm checking with adb shell, file is there...
Nov 10 17:18:21 <romainguy_> then your code is wrong :)
Nov 10 17:18:33 <ttuttle> romainguy_: hey, any fixes for wifi continuity in the works? my g1 keeps reconnecting to the same access point but dropping all my ssh connections.
Nov 10 17:18:51 <romainguy_> no idea
Nov 10 17:18:54 <romainguy_> I never had this problem
Nov 10 17:19:12 <ttuttle> romainguy_: :(
Nov 10 17:19:38 <ttuttle> romainguy_: my experience with wifi is that it's a great radio when it manages to stay connected
Nov 10 17:19:47 <vol> romainguy_: you mean getExternalStorageDirectory?
Nov 10 17:19:54 <romainguy_> yes
Nov 10 17:20:00 <vol> ok
Nov 10 17:22:48 <blau> is there a simple way to ask the user to input something into a text view in a dialog box?
Nov 10 17:23:21 * zewm_ is back. [gone 3h 5m 35s]
Nov 10 17:24:08 <blau> nevmind
Nov 10 17:38:52 <kRutOn> ttuttle: File an issue on http://connectbot.org/
Nov 10 17:42:16 <ttuttle> kRutOn: okay
Nov 10 17:42:47 <kRutOn> ttuttle: That way I can remember it later
Nov 10 17:46:07 <ttuttle> kRutOn: Okay.
Nov 10 17:46:41 <ttuttle> kRutOn: Oh, it's already there.  (Issue #35)
Nov 10 17:51:53 <blau> hey, what do you guys think of an app to allow you to add quick launch items that Directly send a txt message
Nov 10 17:51:58 <blau> or directly call someone
Nov 10 17:52:02 <ttuttle> blau: Any Cut
Nov 10 17:52:05 <ttuttle> blau: It's already done.
Nov 10 17:52:20 <blau> anycut doesnt let you use search hotkeys though
Nov 10 17:52:26 <blau> unless thats in a newer version
Nov 10 17:53:09 <ttuttle> oh, /me parsed "quick launch" as desktop shortcuts.
Nov 10 17:53:11 <ttuttle> sorry
Nov 10 17:53:14 <blau> like search+b launches browser, search+f could launch a text message to your best friend
Nov 10 17:54:27 <blau> maybe id add support for toggling, blue tooth, wifi, gps from keys
Nov 10 17:54:59 <rreck> adb push reboots my computer, i guess that is not normal?
Nov 10 17:55:14 <ttuttle> rreck: *reboots* your *computer*?
Nov 10 17:55:19 <ttuttle> rreck: No, that is *not* normal.
Nov 10 17:55:33 <rreck> yes three times i have tried the push and three times the computer reboots
Nov 10 17:55:52 <rreck> i guess its time to try another pc
Nov 10 18:01:39 <mleste1> hello is anyone active in the channel at the moment
Nov 10 18:02:01 <ttuttle> mleste1: yes
Nov 10 18:02:20 <ttuttle> mleste1: What's up?
Nov 10 18:02:42 <mleste1> I was just wondering if connecting usb devices to android been done yet
Nov 10 18:03:01 <ttuttle> mleste1: No, I don't believe it has been done yet.  I'm not sure if the chipset supports functioning as a USB host.
Nov 10 18:03:37 <mleste1> oh just as a usb client
Nov 10 18:04:15 <ttuttle> mleste1: A USB client?  Sure, it functions as USB mass storage (for the microSD card) as well as USB debugging (to talk to adb).
Nov 10 18:04:47 <Jamie__>  A debian chroot on the G1 is a cute trick.   openvpn works (with a tun.ko driver), xemacs, etc.  Surprised a heavy weight app like xemacs runs as well as it does in an adb shell session.
Nov 10 18:06:09 <mleste1> so is there way send signals across the usb port programming wise
Nov 10 18:06:13 <defcon_> i wonder if android will be themable
Nov 10 18:06:27 <defcon_> plus the hardcoded widget shit sucks
Nov 10 18:06:35 <trigatch4> defcon_ i bet it will be in time
Nov 10 18:06:51 <trigatch4> probably carrier by carrier, too
Nov 10 18:07:15 <trigatch4> it would be smart for a carrier to open it up to themes and start their android phone with a choice of like 20 different themes
Nov 10 18:07:16 <defcon_> I hope android doesnt advance to the point that newer android versions wont work on the g1
Nov 10 18:07:19 <ttuttle> mleste1: No, I don't think it's software controllable.
Nov 10 18:07:33 <trigatch4> defcon_ that doesn't make any sense
Nov 10 18:07:46 <trigatch4> the OS would just be upgraded on the G1
Nov 10 18:07:49 <ttuttle> defcon_: So, inevitably they will eventually stop maintaining a build for the G1, but 1. the community will probably keep it alive for a while and 2. I don't expect this to happen for *many* years.
Nov 10 18:08:07 <ttuttle> defcon_: The G1 is the first device, and, as such, will be the "standard developer device" for quite a while.
Nov 10 18:08:08 <trigatch4> and Google has said repeatedly that android could even work on handsets with no touchscreen... or no screen at all... i dont get your point
Nov 10 18:08:34 <ttuttle> defcon_: But in terms of software compatibility, it'll never break until Linux drops support for ARM, which will never happen.
Nov 10 18:08:58 <defcon_> word
Nov 10 18:13:27 <mleste1> so do u think its possible to add support for it to be usb host by adding it to the linux kernel
Nov 10 18:13:41 <ttuttle> mleste1: ...it depends on whether the hardware supports it.
Nov 10 18:13:45 <ttuttle> mleste1: What I think does not matter.
Nov 10 18:14:09 <mleste1> gotcha
Nov 10 18:14:28 <mleste1> yeah I been trying to find info about the hardware but its hard to find such things
Nov 10 18:14:44 <ttuttle> mleste1: It's an MSM7201A, if I remember correctly.
Nov 10 18:15:28 <defcon_> does the camera hardware on the g1 support video and quicker pictures?
Nov 10 18:15:33 <defcon_> or is that hardware independent
Nov 10 18:15:51 <Damm> the camera sucks on the G1
Nov 10 18:16:04 <Damm> if you wanted to do video with it... it would just be a constant blur
Nov 10 18:16:12 <defcon_> so its the camera not the drivers/software?
Nov 10 18:16:21 <Damm> it's the camera
Nov 10 18:16:34 <Damm> standard camera for qualcomm hardware
Nov 10 18:16:39 <SanMehat> defcon_: a lot of it is drivers and dsp code which i believe we're working on.
Nov 10 18:16:41 <defcon_> wow that sucks
Nov 10 18:16:49 <SanMehat> defcon_: the camera itself is fine
Nov 10 18:16:55 * Damm laughs
Nov 10 18:16:59 <defcon_> ya i thought it was driver issues
Nov 10 18:17:10 <Damm> software can only fix so much
Nov 10 18:17:19 <SanMehat> damm i'm not saying its as good as a real video camera
Nov 10 18:17:36 <SanMehat> but there is def a lot of room for improvement driver/dsp wise
Nov 10 18:18:21 <tomgibara> SanMehat: I'm excited to know that there's room for improving the camera quality. Are these improvements likely to ever make it to the G1?
Nov 10 18:18:50 <Damm> SanMehat, what is the MP on it?
Nov 10 18:19:00 <SanMehat> Damm: 3.2
Nov 10 18:19:10 <SanMehat> tomgibara: good question, i'll dig into it
Nov 10 18:19:12 <Damm> wow, I thought it was .2MP
Nov 10 18:19:32 * ttuttle donates to ConnectBot.  You all should too!
Nov 10 18:19:36 <tomgibara> SanMehat: Thanks
Nov 10 18:19:46 <SanMehat> tomgibara: no problem.
Nov 10 18:20:04 <Damm> ttuttle, donate me a email program that doesn't give me 'connection error' after it loads my inbox.
Nov 10 18:20:16 <ttuttle> Damm: Um, ConnectBot is not an email program.
Nov 10 18:20:26 <mocsrox> ev
Nov 10 18:20:34 <mleste1> its a baller ssh client
Nov 10 18:21:07 <Damm> ttuttle, point is the same.
Nov 10 18:21:13 <defcon_> can the camera take photo's at lower resolution?
Nov 10 18:21:19 <defcon_> does it have that capability?
Nov 10 18:21:25 <defcon_> if so it would be faster
Nov 10 18:21:45 <KNY> does anyone have any idea how to remove an AIM account from the IM program?
Nov 10 18:21:46 <mleste1> I agree I waiting for an app that lets you do that
Nov 10 18:21:51 <KNY> or at least make it not auto-sign in?
Nov 10 18:22:24 <ttuttle> Damm: so, ConnectBot is excellent at what it does. If the underlying framework gives it an unreliable network connection, it can't do anything about that.
Nov 10 18:23:40 <blau> the camera is so bad
Nov 10 18:24:14 <defcon_> its gotta be a software issue
Nov 10 18:24:32 <defcon_> its resolution is too much, which is slowing the device down
Nov 10 18:24:41 <defcon_> i bet its using 100 percent cpu usage
Nov 10 18:25:10 <wastrel> the camera is bad yes
Nov 10 18:25:46 <wastrel> someone said if you take the back piece off the picture quality improves.  maybe the little plastic window needs to be replaced.  i dunno, haven't tried it yet
Nov 10 18:27:04 <defcon_> better yet just cut a hole
Nov 10 18:27:39 <blau> its just so slow
Nov 10 18:27:42 <ttuttle> the preview images always look okay, but then the actual shot is blurry.
Nov 10 18:27:44 <blau> i dont even care about quality
Nov 10 18:27:52 <ttuttle> needs faster shutter speed.
Nov 10 18:27:54 <blau> its that it takes so long to snap after you press the button
Nov 10 18:28:30 <spikebike> blau you kno you are supposed to half press and wait for the green dot right?
Nov 10 18:28:33 <romainguy> ttuttle: fast shutter speed is possible only with higher light sensitivity and/or larger apertures
Nov 10 18:28:49 <ttuttle> romainguy: yes, i am aware :-P
Nov 10 18:28:50 <blau> spike, nope
Nov 10 18:28:51 <blau> lol
Nov 10 18:29:04 <romainguy> ttuttle: then you know yoy can't just make it happen :)
Nov 10 18:29:27 <ttuttle> romainguy: i'd trade more pixel noise for less blur.
Nov 10 18:29:31 <blau> but its still friggen slow even like that
Nov 10 18:29:37 <benley> the delay between shutter press and actual capture is friggin insane
Nov 10 18:29:50 <ttuttle> romainguy: underexpose by 1/2 and multiply by 2 ;-)
Nov 10 18:30:21 <KNY> I hate the "click!" sound. I know it's law in some countries, but come on
Nov 10 18:31:20 <blau> i feel like theres so much crap in the sdk
Nov 10 18:31:24 <blau> that just flat out doesnt work
Nov 10 18:31:28 <blau> even though its documented
Nov 10 18:32:00 <KNY> like what?
Nov 10 18:32:34 <blau> reenablekeyguard doesnt seem to work as documented
Nov 10 18:33:00 <KNY> have you filed a bug report?
Nov 10 18:33:15 <defcon_> yea
Nov 10 18:33:22 <defcon_> lets go on a bug report craze
Nov 10 18:33:29 <vol> woo
Nov 10 18:33:30 <blau> nope
Nov 10 18:33:31 <Damm> ttuttle, actually I find connectbot awesome... over wifi it's spanking
Nov 10 18:33:38 <Damm> T-Mobile's network depending where you are... sucks
Nov 10 18:33:49 <blau> broadcast receivers for screen on and screen off dont seem to work
Nov 10 18:33:55 <defcon_> T-Mobile will only get better
Nov 10 18:34:01 <vol> connectbot is pretty fun, except for the whole "screwing up irssi" part and "oh god my fingers are too huge : ( I keep making typos" part
Nov 10 18:34:04 <defcon_> its up against some evil fuqn networks
Nov 10 18:34:10 <defcon_> like att/vz
Nov 10 18:34:12 <blau> where do i file a bug report? the android source page?
Nov 10 18:34:14 <blau> or something else
Nov 10 18:34:37 <defcon_> att your world deliverered by the nsa
Nov 10 18:34:43 <vol> s/by/to
Nov 10 18:34:50 <romainguy> blau: code.google.com/p/android/issues
Nov 10 18:35:18 <defcon_> google talk pisses me off, keeps disconnecting
Nov 10 18:35:28 <KNY> Damm, I only have EDGE here and while ConnectBot is slow, it works like a champ
Nov 10 18:35:29 <zewm_> the IM client?
Nov 10 18:35:40 <defcon_> yea
Nov 10 18:35:49 <zewm_> yea same here
Nov 10 18:35:52 <zewm_> my aim list doesn't ever load
Nov 10 18:35:54 <defcon_> it disconnects when the phone goes into standby
Nov 10 18:35:59 <zewm_> I keep getting the error code 700
Nov 10 18:36:06 <defcon_> is that the expected behavior?
Nov 10 18:36:12 <zewm_> defcon_: yea, I get that too
Nov 10 18:36:23 <zewm_> my msn/aim/gtalk constantly goes away
Nov 10 18:36:25 <defcon_> im filing a bug
Nov 10 18:36:30 <defcon_> i'll give u the url
Nov 10 18:36:33 <blau> me too!
Nov 10 18:37:00 <spikebike> gtalk doesn't go away for me
Nov 10 18:37:09 <spikebike> and I don't use msn/aim since it charges per message
Nov 10 18:37:22 <zewm_> you don't have unlimited txt?
Nov 10 18:37:26 <zewm_> it's only $5 more
Nov 10 18:37:48 <spikebike> $10
Nov 10 18:37:49 <kRutOn> it's only wafer-thin!
Nov 10 18:37:56 <zewm_> $5 for me
Nov 10 18:37:57 <Damm> KNY, lucky... I get 3G, then drops to EDGE, then GPRS, then back to 3G
Nov 10 18:38:03 <spikebike> $10 for most in the US
Nov 10 18:38:13 <spikebike> seems silly when you already have unlimited data
Nov 10 18:38:15 <zewm_> $34.99 for G1 and $39.99 for G1 Plus (unlimited data/text)
Nov 10 18:38:32 <Damm> uh AIM costs text messages
Nov 10 18:38:33 <spikebike> in the USA (i.e. the website) it's $25 for unlimited data
Nov 10 18:38:37 <Damm> right it's t-mobile
Nov 10 18:38:38 <Damm> i forget
Nov 10 18:38:41 <ttuttle> vol: so i believe any issues with the terminal rendering are the fault of the terminal emulator widget, not connectbot.
Nov 10 18:38:47 <spikebike> and $35 for unlimited data + unlimited message
Nov 10 18:38:49 <zewm_> but the G1 has it's own data/text plans
Nov 10 18:38:51 <spikebike> oh the $25 includes $400
Nov 10 18:38:54 <ttuttle> Damm: you should donate if you haven't.
Nov 10 18:38:57 <defcon_> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1236 <--google talk disconnect issue, plz comment further if ur 3ff3ct3d
Nov 10 18:39:17 <Damm> ttuttle, sure donate me a new power brick for my MBP
Nov 10 18:39:21 <Damm> that's a higher priority to me
Nov 10 18:39:23 * ttuttle is paying at&t $15 for unlimited 3g, and $0 for no text messages
Nov 10 18:39:37 <vol> ttuttle: excuses, of course ;)
Nov 10 18:39:38 <ttuttle> Damm: :( well, whenever you've got some to spare
Nov 10 18:39:47 <zewm_> yea but at&t sucks. you get what you pay for
Nov 10 18:39:52 <ttuttle> vol: ...and your excuse?
Nov 10 18:40:07 <ttuttle> zewm_: works great for me. coverage is better than tmo.
Nov 10 18:40:20 <zewm_> ttuttle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3-gZmoWXSc
Nov 10 18:40:29 <zewm_> tmobile 3g is faster than att
Nov 10 18:40:35 <vol> ttuttle: I didn't develop it, therefor I am absolved of all responsibility, except the responsibility of blaming the developer and questioning his parentage
Nov 10 18:41:06 <ttuttle> vol: :P
Nov 10 18:41:08 <zewm_> the only reason I haven't purchased an iphone is because I'm not happy with att/cingular service. I canceled my account after my calls kept dropping
Nov 10 18:42:32 <defcon_> anyone find that the gmail app sends slower than the gmail in the browser?
Nov 10 18:42:42 <zewm_> no problems here
Nov 10 18:43:19 <Dougie187> so how many of you guys dumped debian on your phones?
Nov 10 18:43:37 <defcon_> i dont think anyone yet
Nov 10 18:43:39 <defcon_> lol
Nov 10 18:43:54 <defcon_> i wish ubuntu mobile would run on the g1 but it needs 256 meg ram
Nov 10 18:43:59 <DarkriftX> i know of 2 Dougie187
Nov 10 18:44:09 <Dougie187> thats cool.
Nov 10 18:44:12 <Dougie187> i saw it on engadget.
Nov 10 18:44:30 <DarkriftX> the guy who wrote that blog/article is in here
Nov 10 18:44:30 <defcon_> http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/10/debian-gets-ported-to-the-g1-makes-nice-with-android/
Nov 10 18:44:32 <DarkriftX> or was last night
Nov 10 18:44:58 <DarkriftX> yeah, hes still here
Nov 10 18:45:06 <Damm> zewm_, actually AT&T's network is faster then T-Mobiles... as T-Mobile is UMTS and AT&T is HSUPA in most area's
Nov 10 18:45:37 <Damm> the problem is T-Mobile is unable to properly cap speeds with 3G on some handsets, so they are faster then T-Mobile wants you to be.
Nov 10 18:45:41 <SplasPood> hrm... so that initlogo.raw seems to be a mix of two channels or something.. to get the mixed color..   Totally beyond my image making knowledge ;)
Nov 10 18:45:59 <zewm_> Damm: I live in Miami, FL and the ATT service is terrible down here
Nov 10 18:47:20 <trigatch4> T-Mobile needs to buy Sprint
Nov 10 18:47:38 <tethridge> that would be interesting
Nov 10 18:47:44 <Dougie187> i could probably go for that.
Nov 10 18:47:47 <Dougie187> as long as my bill didn't change
Nov 10 18:47:49 <Dougie187> and i got 3g.
Nov 10 18:47:54 <andyross> What really needs to happen is for the US CDMA carriers to finally die.
Nov 10 18:48:02 <Dougie187> like sprint?
Nov 10 18:48:08 <Damm> zewm_, get a new sim.
Nov 10 18:48:13 <zewm_> damm?
Nov 10 18:48:25 <andyross> And verizon, yes (others too, but those are the only two that are holding up the industry)
Nov 10 18:48:27 <Damm> zewm_, most people I know who had issues with AT&T got a new sim and it was fixed.
Nov 10 18:48:33 <Damm> don't ask, AT&T can't explain
Nov 10 18:48:57 <zewm_> meh, I've had success with Verizon and T-Mobile as of late and I'm pretty happy with that
Nov 10 18:49:05 <zewm_> Don't care to go back to Cingular/ATT anytime soon
Nov 10 18:49:41 <zewm_> just my personal opinion
Nov 10 18:50:00 <vol> oh ffs.
Nov 10 18:50:01 <vol> http://ortegaalfredo.googlepages.com/android
Nov 10 18:50:05 <vol> anyone use this yet?
Nov 10 18:50:12 <vol> it's complaining that it can't find /bin/sh when I try to run
Nov 10 18:58:03 <julien`> Hi
Nov 10 18:59:49 <vol> hi
Nov 10 19:00:28 <wastrel> hi, i'm at work.
Nov 10 19:03:17 <DarkriftX> romainguy, you know why cpu scaling was not used?
Nov 10 19:03:27 <DarkriftX> big booms or anything we should know? lol
Nov 10 19:05:14 <mikez5> DarkriftX: we just didn't have time to get it working for the first release.
Nov 10 19:05:31 <DarkriftX> ahhh, good to know
Nov 10 19:06:49 <Damm> kinda weird running a phone that's still under active development
Nov 10 19:06:49 <spikebike> sweet
Nov 10 19:07:03 <spikebike> so hopefully there will be improvements
Nov 10 19:07:20 <spikebike> n800 had the same thing
Nov 10 19:07:23 <Damm> spikebike, can't really go back easily.
Nov 10 19:07:28 <spikebike> the bonus was it improved in both directions
Nov 10 19:07:52 <spikebike> it cpu scaled for better battery life, and went to a higher clock when it wasn't
Nov 10 19:08:01 <spikebike> damm?
Nov 10 19:08:05 <spikebike> can't add cpu scaling?
Nov 10 19:10:05 <androoid> is the gps working 100% ?
Nov 10 19:11:11 <RyeBrye> I was looking at the kernel config of the msm-htc kernel that the G1 uses, and it appears that frequency scaling is disabled - is this because it would have no effect since the linux runs on the ARM9 stuff?
Nov 10 19:11:22 <RyeBrye> oh - I see others have already asked :)
Nov 10 19:12:30 <andyross> Linux is on the ARM11 core, not the ARM9.
Nov 10 19:12:52 <RyeBrye> Oh, yeah - swap those too - but it's still subordinate to the phone core isn't it?
Nov 10 19:13:45 <andyross> Not sure what "subordinate" means in that context.  They're separate cores on a shared bus  You'd have to ask qualcomm which one boots first, and in what state.
Nov 10 19:13:50 <RyeBrye> ok
Nov 10 19:14:14 <DarkriftX> lol RyeBrye
Nov 10 19:14:27 * andyross keeps hoping that a datasheet for the MSM7200 ends up on piratebay or something, but hasn't seen anything yet.
Nov 10 19:15:22 <spikebike> it's a 7201 isn't it?
Nov 10 19:15:34 <RyeBrye> mikez5 - is there a place where 'outside' developers can go and peek at discussion history on issues like the cpu scaling frequency one to see what the problems were and see how we could help? I'm sure it can't help you guys stay productive if we keep asking you about stuff you worked on months ago - and in order to ask enough questions to figure out what the known issues were and what was attempted would probably bug you guys to no end :)
Nov 10 19:16:06 <Damm> spikebike, no I meant things can't get worse... they can only get better.
Nov 10 19:16:08 <andyross> MSM7201a seems to be the part number that gets posted on wikipedia and the like.  But the MSM7x00 family seems to be mostly identical AFAIK.  There are a bunch of CDMA phones based on the 7500.
Nov 10 19:16:42 <mikez5> RyeBrye:  there is no easy way for us to make our old discussions public, since it would take a lot of work to go through and remove stuff that might be confidential.
Nov 10 19:16:53 <RyeBrye> mikez5 - fair enough
Nov 10 19:17:24 <mikez5> But our plan going forward is to move our ongoing development to the git repositories on kernel.org and move discussion to the public mailing lists.  We aren't quite there yet, but that is the plan we are working toward.
Nov 10 19:17:46 <djsiegel> Is there anyway to get the html of the current document from a WebView instance?
Nov 10 19:17:47 <RyeBrye> mikez5 - ok, I trust you guys... I'll be patient :)
Nov 10 19:18:10 <spikebike> as a midlife kicker OS2008 added significantly tweaks libraries for graphics, string copy, and a few other tweaks
Nov 10 19:18:16 <spikebike> and changed the clock from 333 -> 400
Nov 10 19:18:25 <spikebike> which significantly improving battery life
Nov 10 19:18:29 * mikez5 a bit impatient myself - I'm looking forward to having everything out in the open.
Nov 10 19:18:33 <spikebike> er s/which/while/
Nov 10 19:19:04 <blau> djs: pretty sure i saw that
Nov 10 19:19:04 <RyeBrye> upping the clock increased battery life?
Nov 10 19:20:01 <RyeBrye> if 333 -> 400 significantly improves battery - lets go from 400 -> 3.6 Ghz and have the battery last practically forever! ;)
Nov 10 19:20:09 <blau> cant find it now tho
Nov 10 19:21:14 <spikebike> heh
Nov 10 19:21:23 <spikebike> well cpu scaling meant the average use was less
Nov 10 19:21:28 <RyeBrye> Ah :)
Nov 10 19:21:48 <famast> what is the hex value for the default background color for android activities?
Nov 10 19:22:07 <famast> its not black, some shade of gray
Nov 10 19:22:14 <Damm> reminds me of ACPI CPU scaling in FreeBSD and how miserable that was
Nov 10 19:28:48 <blau> so whats the Apache License like?
Nov 10 19:29:03 <andyross> Like BSD or X11.
Nov 10 19:30:33 <RyeBrye> On a lot of the stuff in the msm kernel snapshot I see copyright of both Google and Qualcomm - so you guys had to write a lot of the kernel stuff yourselves for the msm?
Nov 10 19:31:42 <blau> are google.com emails employees of google?
Nov 10 19:31:45 <andyross> Don't think qualcomm has any pre-existing linux targets for the MSM7 stuff (just wince and brew, right?), so probably.
Nov 10 19:31:48 <RyeBrye> Ahh... I see the issue now - the msm cpuqfreq governor has some incomplete pieces: "XXX: Waiting for peroper clock tree info from QC"
Nov 10 19:31:55 <RyeBrye> Damn QC
Nov 10 19:32:50 <andyross> The embedded world is just awful that way.  Nothing is documented.  Nothing works out of the box.  Employees of the big hardware corporations either don't understand software or are idiots (or both).
Nov 10 19:34:11 <vol> ha
Nov 10 19:34:55 <RyeBrye> It's a shame too - it looks like the msm cpufreq governor would help save battery a lot - like how it will set the clock down to  as low as 82mhz if the screen is off - which would help a ton - and let it vary between 245 and 384 if the screen is on?
Nov 10 19:38:02 <sfuentes> RyeBrye: what's a shame?
Nov 10 19:38:37 <sfuentes> i just got here ... missed interesting discussion
Nov 10 19:38:40 <RyeBrye> that QC hasn't gotten Google (or anyone I guess) the necessary info to complete the frequency scaling
Nov 10 19:39:27 <RyeBrye> They are "* XXX: Waiting for peroper clock tree info from QC"
Nov 10 19:39:43 <wastrel> what's peroper?
Nov 10 19:39:49 <wastrel> per operation ok  i can live with that
Nov 10 19:39:54 <sfuentes> i see.
Nov 10 19:40:01 <wastrel> parsed it as misspelled "proper"
Nov 10 19:40:15 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 10 19:40:25 <RyeBrye> It probably is misspelled
Nov 10 19:40:31 <RyeBrye> in one of the instances
Nov 10 19:40:47 <djsiegel> I am trying to make my application behave well when rotated, but saving the state of a WebView is turning out to be a huge PITA -- is there a shortcut for doing this? For example, in the browser, scrolling state is saved on rotation, and the document seems to be "restored" seamlessly. I get a bit of a flicker when I save and restore the document in my app.
Nov 10 19:40:50 <RyeBrye> because the comment above is teh same thing but says "proper clock tree" instead of "peroper clock tree" :)
Nov 10 19:41:25 <wastrel> heh
Nov 10 19:41:45 <rreck>  load average: 1058.34, 267.07, 90.07
Nov 10 19:41:58 <RyeBrye> that's a pretty high load average
Nov 10 19:41:58 <Laz> :( Firefox Fennec not coming to android :(
Nov 10 19:42:05 <rreck> yeah i know
Nov 10 19:42:21 <rreck> quad core can handle it and im impressed
Nov 10 19:42:57 <wastrel> opera got opera mini running prior to 1.0 release.  have they made any noise about updating for the current SDK?
Nov 10 19:43:52 <Laz> They should add c++ support to android
Nov 10 19:44:05 <RyeBrye> Firefox should not be a bloated pig
Nov 10 19:44:54 <andyross> Load just shows the number of runnable processes.  If they're all waiting on the cpu, your machine is going to be unusable.  If they're all waiting on disk I/O (which by dumb tradition counts as "runnable" in unix) the box is zippy and fine.
Nov 10 19:45:00 <Disconnect> wastrel: its released
Nov 10 19:45:14 <andyross> If they're all waiting on disk I/O for *swap*, however, you might as well reach for the power cord now. :
Nov 10 19:45:47 <RyeBrye> I had a USB LCD screen that would always have things wait to write the next screen to it - so whenever it ran my load was automatically at least 1.0
Nov 10 19:46:15 <andyross> Speaking of load: anyone investigated why audmgr_rpc and ksdiorqd on the G1 are perpetually stuck in a syscall?
Nov 10 19:46:43 <wastrel> Disconnect: have you installed it?  the only one i see is the one from April, i installed that one but it didn't run on my g1
Nov 10 19:47:03 <rreck> andyross: you are apparently quite informed.
Nov 10 19:47:21 <Disconnect> wastrel: its in the appstore. j2me runner.
Nov 10 19:47:24 * andyross points out that if he was truly informed, he'd know the answer to the question. :)
Nov 10 19:47:35 <sfuentes> so is terminal emulator preferred over p terminal these days?
Nov 10 19:48:13 <Disconnect> sfuentes: you say "these days" like pterminal was ever preferred :)
Nov 10 19:48:17 <Laz> bash
Nov 10 19:49:25 <vol> hmm
Nov 10 19:49:26 <sfuentes> Disconnect: from what i understand, pterm was the only option at one point
Nov 10 19:49:37 <vol> I'm trying to debug something using gdb, and I'm running out of memory on the emulator.
Nov 10 19:49:38 <rreck> andyross: i mean informed about the things you have said to me
Nov 10 19:49:48 <vol> Is it possible to increase the size? Is this the system.img file?
Nov 10 19:49:55 <Disconnect> sfuentes: then you understand incorrectly. term.apk has been available since the source shipped (and possibly before, depending on who you knew)
Nov 10 19:50:48 <savid> Is it possible to install a modified version of android on a G1?  (ie, after changing the source code and re-building)?
Nov 10 19:50:58 <Laz> yes
Nov 10 19:51:14 <Laz> if you have root
Nov 10 19:51:16 <andyross> Yes, if you haven't upgraded to the recent R30 patch.  No, if you have.
Nov 10 19:51:19 <sfuentes> Disconnect: good to know. ty. so why all the talk/news about pterm?
Nov 10 19:51:52 <Laz> because it was easily available
Nov 10 19:52:58 <cutmasta> does somebody know if the developer of http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/app.html?id=11 is in #android frequently?
Nov 10 19:53:16 <cutmasta> seems that he is not contable :)
Nov 10 19:55:57 <sfuentes> cutmasta: that's because there is no function that maps him to natural numbers :)
Nov 10 19:56:17 <cutmasta> sfuentes: :)
Nov 10 20:00:41 <wastrel> still need a decent todo/organizer app
Nov 10 20:02:11 <blau> quicklaunch adder is almost done
Nov 10 20:02:19 <blau> i shall name it QuickCut
Nov 10 20:09:04 <savid> Laz, well, I don't have a g1 yet :-p  So I guess it's likely when I get one it'll have R30 on it
Nov 10 20:09:36 <blau> Group SMS app coming soon
Nov 10 20:09:46 <wastrel> i have rc30
Nov 10 20:09:47 <andyross> Probably not, until they need to ship more from the factory and decide to change the production flashing.  Phones in boxes no doubt still have R19, and will for a while now.
Nov 10 20:09:56 <blau> i wonder if I can get away with charging for it.
Nov 10 20:09:59 <Laz> Tmobile sucks for not wanting the g1 open :(
Nov 10 20:10:37 <blau> what nots open?
Nov 10 20:10:43 <rreck> i bought mine and it had R28
Nov 10 20:11:15 <Laz> root access :P
Nov 10 20:11:20 <wastrel> blau: no root login to the linux system
Nov 10 20:11:39 <blau> are you sure thats a tmobile thing and not just google?
Nov 10 20:11:51 <vol> alright, question. Lets say I want to replace the /data mount on my emulator. How would I go about doing this? Do I use mksdcard to make the image, or is that for sdcard images only? do I create a replacement for system.img?
Nov 10 20:11:53 <andyross> I think a lot of that might be google's fault.  Carriers have been shipping phones for years that are objectively more "open" to hacking than the G1 is (Symbian until recently didn't even have a security model of any type).  My guess is at some level google ended up presenting TMO with a questione like "would you let us make the platform open?".
Nov 10 20:11:53 <andyross> And they said no. :)
Nov 10 20:12:29 <ttuttle> andyross: Um, it is pretty open.
Nov 10 20:12:36 <Laz> I can't believe theres no themes....
Nov 10 20:12:58 <Laz> Open for apps.... thats it
Nov 10 20:13:28 <andyross> ttuttle: Meh.  Semantic argument.  Let's just leave it at "Some users want more access than granted by the G1, for some reasonably justifiable reasons".
Nov 10 20:13:35 <ttuttle> andyross: Yeah.
Nov 10 20:13:36 <Laz> Can't even compile android and put it on the g1 :(
Nov 10 20:13:38 <Disconnect> random user question :) is there no way to get a picklist for multi-recipient sms's?
Nov 10 20:13:52 <ttuttle> andyross: So, I feel like, once they've run through their 2-year contract, or if they paid $400, they should have a way to get a developer build.
Nov 10 20:14:05 <andyross> Yeah, I'd be happy with that too.
Nov 10 20:14:36 <sfuentes> how do you get the rc30 update anyway?
Nov 10 20:14:40 <Disconnect> ttuttle: even without running out the contract - dev build won't magically pop them off the contract (for that matter neither will selling/bricking/burning the phone.. independent entities)
Nov 10 20:14:59 <andyross> sfuentes: It gets pushed to you automatically and will prompt you for a reboot.
Nov 10 20:15:05 <ttuttle> Oh, right...
Nov 10 20:15:08 <ttuttle> The SIM lock is totally independent.
Nov 10 20:15:17 <ttuttle> Then yeah, you should make it available to sufficiently non-idiotic people.
Nov 10 20:15:18 * Disconnect suggests rooting the phone first and applying JF's su-enabled rc30
Nov 10 20:15:54 <Disconnect> ttuttle: even that doesn't take 2 years (or 90 days, etc) as i proved when i got mine (free) w/in 2 weeks :)
Nov 10 20:15:54 <sfuentes> andyross: when does that happen? I have had my g1 since friday with no update request/notice
Nov 10 20:16:03 <Disconnect> sfuentes: what is it at right now?
Nov 10 20:16:05 * andyross wonders how long it will be before a for-profit black marked of rooted G1's shows up on ebay....
Nov 10 20:16:11 <andyross> er, black market
Nov 10 20:17:00 <rreck> sfuentes: i get asked every few minutes about it trying to update
Nov 10 20:17:01 <Disconnect> there is some -very- good money to be made in buying them for $400, spending $20 on the unlock code and then ebaying them.. no reason not to root-enable them first (except you now have the question of which signing keys to leave it with)
Nov 10 20:17:10 <Disconnect> rreck: eventually it'll jsut do it anyway. so ..
Nov 10 20:17:11 <andyross> sfuentes: I got the prompt about 24 hours after reading on a forum somewhere that it was live.  I don't think there's any particular frequency.
Nov 10 20:17:23 <mikez5> Maybe you all should try to convince TMobile they will make more money if they sold root-enabled phones.
Nov 10 20:17:33 * Disconnect never got prompted for rc29 (after a week or so) but rc30 came -fast-
Nov 10 20:17:40 <mikez5> Right now they think they will lose money on extra support costs due to the root bug.
Nov 10 20:17:44 <sfuentes> i'm at rc28
Nov 10 20:18:24 <andyross> True, the market for root phones is tiny (probably 10% of it is listening on this channel as we speak).  Doesn't mean that it's not a good feature, or truly dangerous.
Nov 10 20:18:26 <sfuentes> hhmmm ... kinda weird. is there a pushing queue or something?
Nov 10 20:18:36 <mikez5> But if you can convince them a significant number of customers are willing to pay more, or they will sell more phones overall, then make your case to them.
Nov 10 20:19:36 <andyross> The trick to carrier relationships, honestly, is knowing what *not* to tell them.  They'll freak out of you say anything that sounds like "security hole", or "open access".
Nov 10 20:19:49 <sfuentes> are the updates cumilative?
Nov 10 20:20:26 <andyross> R29 was a whole-image replacement.  R30 is a small patch.  So they could be either.
Nov 10 20:20:46 <wastrel> i let r30 install because i didn't want to fool with breaking my phone just yet.
Nov 10 20:21:02 <Laz> lol
Nov 10 20:21:10 <andyross> Heh, and in the process potentially gave up the ability to ever break your phone. :)
Nov 10 20:21:21 <Laz> yep
Nov 10 20:21:25 <wastrel> so i'll have a phone that works :]
Nov 10 20:21:35 <Laz> us too
Nov 10 20:21:41 <andyross> And yet, potentially not a phone that works the way you want.
Nov 10 20:22:12 <wastrel> i just want an ebook reader and a todo app
Nov 10 20:22:23 <Disconnect> wastrel: then you should have stuck with symbian or iphone..
Nov 10 20:22:35 <wastrel> iphone doesn't sync with linux
Nov 10 20:22:42 <Disconnect> (wow ebook on that screen? ucky. but maybe i'm spoiled by my cybook)
Nov 10 20:23:12 <andyross> Out of curiosity: what would a "todo app" do that the existing calendar doesn't?
Nov 10 20:23:14 <Disconnect> wastrel: http://lifehacker.com/388785/sync-your-iphone-wirelessly-in-linux
Nov 10 20:23:14 <wastrel> i saw a kindle on the subway today, looked to me like i had about 3/4 of the viewable text as the guy did on his
Nov 10 20:23:21 <wastrel> andyross: tasks and projects
Nov 10 20:23:35 <Disconnect> kindle is an ugly mess.. i really -really- wanted to like it.. but its just ugly.
Nov 10 20:23:51 <vol> Again, I'm trying to specify a much larger data mount, and I'm having trouble with it. I created a 256M images with mksdcard, and then ran the emulator with -data larger.img (where that is the name of the image I just made), but I am getting 64M /data mount.
Nov 10 20:23:55 <romainguy> DarkriftX: what makes you think cpu scaling is not used?
Nov 10 20:24:13 <wastrel> Disconnect: that's music and pictres.  i don't use either of those
Nov 10 20:24:13 <blau> i love the kindle
Nov 10 20:24:14 <vol> Can anyone tell me if I need to use something that is not mksdcard to make the image? Is -data deprecated?
Nov 10 20:24:19 <vol> What am I doing wrong here.
Nov 10 20:24:26 <sfuentes> Disconnect: second version of the kindle?
Nov 10 20:24:53 <blau> anyroos: im working on a todo app with calendar integration
Nov 10 20:25:05 <wastrel> blau: not toodo?
Nov 10 20:25:23 <Laz> Lets get c++ working on dalvikvm
Nov 10 20:25:50 <sfuentes> i'm up for python on dalvik :D
Nov 10 20:25:55 <andyross> C++ via JNI is working already.
Nov 10 20:26:06 <Laz> natively
Nov 10 20:26:11 <blau> not toodo, does toodo integrate with google cal?
Nov 10 20:26:21 <cutmasta> sfuentes: found the developers email :)
Nov 10 20:26:23 <blau> i didnt think so, but if it does ill probably use it
Nov 10 20:26:24 <andyross> Wait, you mean target a C++ build *to* the VM?  Ick.
Nov 10 20:26:53 <wastrel> blau: negative, it does sync with a couple of web services though.
Nov 10 20:27:07 <wastrel> for todos.  i've been trying it out but the ui is a godawful mess.
Nov 10 20:27:23 <sfuentes> cutmasta: track him down :)
Nov 10 20:27:24 <wastrel> blau: i'll be happy to test for you ;]
Nov 10 20:27:33 <cutmasta> sfuentes: :)
Nov 10 20:28:47 <blau> wastrel, thanks ill let you know, probably wont be testable for a while, my plan now is to get it ready for when calendarprovider is implemented
Nov 10 20:29:03 <blau> in the meantime, im working on my own calendarprovider
Nov 10 20:29:40 <vol> damnit!
Nov 10 20:31:34 <Laz> i want aircrack on the g1
Nov 10 20:33:04 <vol> seriously, no one knows this one?
Nov 10 20:33:21 <fadden> vol: why do you need this?
Nov 10 20:33:29 <vol> gdb is running out of memory
Nov 10 20:33:45 <vol> it more or less fills up /data and then the emulator dies
Nov 10 20:33:52 <vol> when it reaches the shared lib we're loading
Nov 10 20:34:18 <vol> http://ortegaalfredo.googlepages.com/android
Nov 10 20:34:20 <vol> I'm trying to use this
Nov 10 20:34:23 <vol> instead of gdbserver
Nov 10 20:34:33 <vol> it is much more promising
Nov 10 20:34:52 <vol> my "hello segfault" did not give me a usable stack trace when I used gdbserver and had gdb outside the device
Nov 10 20:34:55 <fadden> None of the system libs have symbols on the device, but that might be okay depending on what you're tracing into.
Nov 10 20:35:09 <vol> s/device/emulator
Nov 10 20:35:17 <vol> but worked wonderful when I used gdb on the emulator
Nov 10 20:35:35 <Laz> he rules
Nov 10 20:35:45 <vol> in any event, this is our monster 7.5MB (w/o optimization and with debugging symbols) shared lib
Nov 10 20:35:46 <andyross> Well, they have the exported symbols.  Can gdb expose a symbol name from the ELF stuff?
Nov 10 20:35:59 <fadden> Quick fix: blow away /data/dalvik-cache/*.  Anything not currently running will get deleted, and on the emulator that stuff gets rebuilt automatically on first use.
Nov 10 20:36:11 <vol> seems like it. I'm not as interested in where it may die in libc, as where it was calling from inside our shared lib
Nov 10 20:36:19 <sfuentes> has anyone used connectbot?
Nov 10 20:36:22 <vol> sfuentes: yes
Nov 10 20:36:45 <sfuentes> vol: does it look pretty good?
Nov 10 20:36:59 <vol> well, it's an ssh program : )
Nov 10 20:37:05 <vol> it is perfectly usable
Nov 10 20:37:18 <vol> the font is teeny but there's not much you can do if you want 80
Nov 10 20:37:21 <vol> char width
Nov 10 20:37:30 <sfuentes> and does anyone know if uninstalling an app leaves any just files behind? user configs or shared libs?
Nov 10 20:37:51 <sfuentes> vol: cool. i mean the app looks really promising
Nov 10 20:37:52 <vol> sfuentes: it should ask you whether you want to remove the user data as well
Nov 10 20:37:59 <vol> (if any)
Nov 10 20:38:09 <wastrel> you can adjust font easily
Nov 10 20:38:13 <wastrel> (volume keys)
Nov 10 20:38:22 <sfuentes> err i meant junk instead of just
Nov 10 20:39:07 <vol> oh? didn't know that, thanks wastrel :)
Nov 10 20:39:08 <kRutOn> sfuentes: You can run applications in the emulator if you want to check them out.
Nov 10 20:39:13 <vol> (it really needs ANY sort of documentation)
Nov 10 20:39:26 * kRutOn whistles innocently about documentation.
Nov 10 20:39:48 * vol glares
Nov 10 20:40:06 <sfuentes> ok i have a good question :)
Nov 10 20:40:12 <vol> it took me 10 minutes of searching to find that it uses the mousewheel to do ctrl
Nov 10 20:40:15 <vol> er
Nov 10 20:40:17 <vol> yeah
Nov 10 20:40:32 <wastrel> vol: if you install new anymore, it runs you through a quick tutorial which covers these things :]
Nov 10 20:40:46 <vol> ah, thanks
Nov 10 20:40:59 <kRutOn> I suspect most people just click through it, but it's under Menu -> About on the Host List
Nov 10 20:41:01 <vol> still, I am forgetful, so having a menu option for "key list"
Nov 10 20:41:04 <vol> would be awful nice.
Nov 10 20:41:09 <ttuttle> kRutOn: Yeah, a "Help" option would be great.
Nov 10 20:41:28 <sfuentes> what was the reason for choosing linux for android?
Nov 10 20:41:31 <Disconnect> vol: ..on the main menu hit 'about' and it uses gpl as a clickthrough (??!?) and then gives all the info
Nov 10 20:41:44 <ttuttle> sfuentes: It's the easiest to adapt?
Nov 10 20:41:48 <ttuttle> sfuentes: What would you prefer?
Nov 10 20:41:48 <sfuentes> as oppose to something like bsd or opensolaris
Nov 10 20:41:53 <vol> Disconnect: I'll try and remember.
Nov 10 20:41:55 <ttuttle> sfuentes: BSD and openSolaris don't run on phones.
Nov 10 20:42:17 <Disconnect> but what about vista?
Nov 10 20:42:17 <sfuentes> bsds don't run on phones?
Nov 10 20:42:25 <Disconnect> sfuentes: name one
Nov 10 20:42:52 <sfuentes> i'm not saying they do ... i'm just surprised
Nov 10 20:43:03 <kRutOn> sfuentes: Probably because there is a lot of brainshare for Linux and much work has been done to port it to embedded devices before they started on Android
Nov 10 20:43:11 <sfuentes> i think netbsd runs on arm processors
Nov 10 20:43:33 <sfuentes> kRut0n: makes alot of sense
Nov 10 20:44:12 <streeter> sfuentes: "doesn't" != "can't"
Nov 10 20:44:15 <streeter> "The connection between English and modal logic may involve some unexpected ambiguities"
Nov 10 20:44:22 <digitalspaghetti> any java/ui developers looking to work on an open source project?  I've got an idea, I can do the backend (python/db stuff) btu I suck at the front end stuff
Nov 10 20:44:40 <vol> fadden: ok, there's 33M free. I'm going to try gdb... (here's where it will crap out)
Nov 10 20:44:54 <vol> oh, hey, I forgot, it's not even loaded... :\
Nov 10 20:45:25 <fadden> vol: if it gives you any grief, "chmod 777 /data/dalvik-cache"
Nov 10 20:45:40 <vol> oh, I wiped dalvik-cache
Nov 10 20:45:43 <chouman82> quick question regarding progress dialog
Nov 10 20:45:49 <sfuentes> streeter: that's why i was asking why they chose linux
Nov 10 20:45:49 <fadden> vol: not for long. :-)
Nov 10 20:46:03 <vol> so is it ok to wipe it while a process is running?
Nov 10 20:46:03 <chouman82> anyway i can tell it to show on the top of the screen?
Nov 10 20:46:24 <fadden> vol: under Linux, removed files don't actually disappear while they are open
Nov 10 20:46:49 <fadden> So the ones that weren't used by anybody are gone, while the others are still present but have no directory entry.
Nov 10 20:46:50 <sfuentes> streeter: and the answer appears to be that linux is more developed in the cellphone platform
Nov 10 20:46:55 <andyross> sfuentes: Huge list of linux drivers that already exist for hardware on embedded devices (usb gadgets, nand flash, flash filesystems).  That's no doubt the core of the issue.  It's also a better kernel, FWIW.  Although that's a flame for a different channel.
Nov 10 20:47:03 <fadden> The framework package manager generates all dalvik-cache entries during boot.
Nov 10 20:47:21 <vol> fadden: hmm
Nov 10 20:47:24 <fadden> If the VM has access rights to /data/dalvik-cache, it generates anything necessary during VM init.
Nov 10 20:47:32 <vol> Alright, I've wiped them already, I'll do it again when I'm ready to attach gdb
Nov 10 20:47:59 <fadden> If you play your cards wrong, you'll end up with *less* available space as you have multiple copies of /data/dalvik-cache stuff being held by running processes.
Nov 10 20:48:22 <vol> ok, wiped dalvek-cache, have 29M free, going to attach GDB
Nov 10 20:48:26 <fadden> So it's probably a good idea to do it pretty late in the game.
Nov 10 20:48:42 <ttuttle> vol: s/dalvek/dalvik/;
Nov 10 20:48:47 <vol> er, yes
Nov 10 20:48:50 <vol> typo
Nov 10 20:48:55 <fadden> (adb shell stop ; adb shell start will restart the runtime, freeing vanished stuff, and restoring dalvik-cache)
Nov 10 20:49:16 <vol> mmm.
Nov 10 20:49:18 <fadden> For the record: this is not a recommended operating mode. :-)
Nov 10 20:49:39 <vol> well, I'm only doing all this to see how much I can squeeze out of gdb
Nov 10 20:49:46 <vol> this is obviously not how we're going to roll :P
Nov 10 20:49:49 <fadden> Figuring out why /data doesn't want to be bigger, or figuring out how to mount /sdcard without noexec, would probably be a better way to go.
Nov 10 20:50:19 <vol> well, I know why data doesn't want to be bigger, it's because I'm running -wipe-data along with -data myimage.img
Nov 10 20:50:26 <fadden> Alternatively, learn to love the gdbserver, which lets you leave the version with all the symbols and junk sitting off device.
Nov 10 20:50:27 <vol> because if I just use -data myimage.img it can't find things it's looking for
Nov 10 20:50:44 <vol> fadden: unfortunately, gdbserver doesn't seem to work as well as I'd like.
Nov 10 20:51:01 <vol> hello segfault hits its segfault, but then the backtrace gives me less than useful information
Nov 10 20:51:20 <fadden> In what way is its utility limited?
Nov 10 20:51:33 <vol> it gives me one frame, filled with a lot of question marks
Nov 10 20:51:44 <vol> running gdb on the emu gives a proper backtrace with the correct info
Nov 10 20:51:45 <fadden> That is decidely limited.
Nov 10 20:51:55 <fadden> "decidedly"
Nov 10 20:52:10 <vol> that is why I am VERY interested in getting this working
Nov 10 20:52:36 <fadden> Alternatively, figure out what's missing from gdbserver.
Nov 10 20:52:37 <vol> and would love to know how I can put the initial data from -wipe-data onto a larger image
Nov 10 20:52:52 <vol> ugh, I don't even know where to start with that.
Nov 10 20:53:08 <vol> aside from emailing the developer and asking him how he did this
Nov 10 20:53:19 <vol> also, where did you pull the copy of gdbserver you handed to me from?
Nov 10 20:53:26 <fadden> set solib-absolute-prefix <blah>   -and-  set solib-search-path <blah>
Nov 10 20:53:56 <fadden> vol: same place the rest of the arm-eabi-xxx prebuilt stuff came from.  For some reason it didn't go out with the open-source release.
Nov 10 20:54:23 <vol> are those build flags or something else
Nov 10 20:54:28 <vol> oh ack
Nov 10 20:54:32 <fadden> vol: gdb commands
Nov 10 20:54:32 <vol> from within gdb
Nov 10 20:55:59 <vol> hmm. let me try gdbserver and see what happens.
Nov 10 20:56:24 <fadden> If absolute-prefix goes to the "symbols" dir, search-path goes to the "symbols/system/lib" dir.
Nov 10 20:56:34 <fadden> Both are absolute paths.
Nov 10 20:57:08 <fadden> If you look in build/envsetup.sh, there's a shell function called "gdbclient" that does the setup; not sure if we fixed it up for the open source release.
Nov 10 20:57:39 <fadden> Defaults to app_process (app binary) and port 5039.
Nov 10 20:58:47 <vol> let me take a look at that
Nov 10 20:58:51 <vol> thanks
Nov 10 21:00:33 <fadden> vol: you can also try "adb shell setprop debug.db.uid 32767" and then crash something.
Nov 10 21:00:46 <fadden> (see core/debuggerd/debuggerd.c -- handle_crashing_process)
Nov 10 21:00:58 <fadden> When something crashes it'll sit politely waiting for a debugger.
Nov 10 21:01:32 <fadden> ObNotice: native code development is not currently supported on Android, blah blah blah.
Nov 10 21:02:29 <vol> mmm
Nov 10 21:02:33 <vol> that might be quite handy indeed
Nov 10 21:02:52 <vol> the big problem we're having right now is that our little test app is crashing sometimes but we don't know why
Nov 10 21:04:24 <raidfive> if I have the scheme mwu registered by my app, shouldn't a link like <a href="mwu://auth">auth</a> cause an intent to be fired for my app? I'm not sure if there is anything special I need to do on the browser end
Nov 10 21:05:42 <raidfive> looks like the browser is defaulting to a google search for "mwu://auth"
Nov 10 21:06:02 <tomgibara> raidfive: See the documentation for IntentFilter; you'll need to specify a data type too I think
Nov 10 21:07:20 <g1er> Back on an rc28 model G1 :)  (the version that appearently now comes on the NIB black store models)
Nov 10 21:08:00 <g1er> fyi, keep an eye on the little piece covering the wires in the hinge. If it stops sliding in and out your display wires will soon become compromised.
Nov 10 21:08:36 <digitalspaghetti> nobody? (if you saw my earlier question)
Nov 10 21:08:48 <vol> digitalspaghetti: nope.
Nov 10 21:11:46 <g1er> digitalspaghetti: sorry, I'm just learning the basics. There's a cool tool for the basic GUI stuff, but I imagine your looking for a little more than that.
Nov 10 21:12:28 <digitalspaghetti> well all i am really looking for is some extra functionality being added to the existing contacts manager
Nov 10 21:12:58 <digitalspaghetti> athough it adds s service to the sync stuff so i don't really know how easy or hard that would be
Nov 10 21:14:48 <g1er> um, you could in #android-dev
Nov 10 21:15:38 <spikebike> digitalspaghetti: I believe the source for the contact manager is included in android
Nov 10 21:15:42 <spikebike> I'd take a peek
Nov 10 21:16:09 <digitalspaghetti> that in teh main source, rather than the API?
Nov 10 21:16:11 <g1er> hi spikebike, i undid root lockout :)
Nov 10 21:16:19 <spikebike> oh how?
Nov 10 21:16:26 <spikebike> congrats
Nov 10 21:16:26 <g1er> hinge broke...yay
Nov 10 21:16:29 <g1er> lol
Nov 10 21:16:32 <spikebike> ah, new phone?
Nov 10 21:16:39 <g1er> ya factory rc28
Nov 10 21:16:42 <spikebike> sweet
Nov 10 21:16:53 <spikebike> welcome back to root
Nov 10 21:17:13 <g1er> going over jesusfreak''s thread
Nov 10 21:17:36 <spikebike> yeah, I'm planning on finding the most conservative rc30 upgrade tonight
Nov 10 21:17:45 <spikebike> basically minimal changes that keeps root
Nov 10 21:18:32 <g1er> same here.
Nov 10 21:19:13 <Disconnect> spikebike: that'd be jesusfreke's recovery+rc30
Nov 10 21:19:19 <Disconnect> its the original with 'su' added
Nov 10 21:19:48 <spikebike> sounds good
Nov 10 21:19:51 <Disconnect> (you won't find anything that doesn't use new signing keys tho, nature of the beast)
Nov 10 21:19:56 <spikebike> oh sure
Nov 10 21:20:22 <spikebike> I just wanted to poke around a bit to see if as little changed as he claims
Nov 10 21:21:07 <Disconnect> unless you objdump su (or build it yourself) thats the important part, and its not verifiable
Nov 10 21:22:04 <vol> fadden: hurf durf. This would help if I compiled the android source, wouldn't it. Having the device's libraries to point it to might be helpful.
Nov 10 21:23:05 <vol> also, it requires zlibc, which is not in your great big list of things to install.
Nov 10 21:24:08 <fadden> vol: right... you need the zlib dev lib
Nov 10 21:24:37 <vol> not listed on http://source.android.com/download
Nov 10 21:24:42 <fadden> Not sure how useful the built libraries will be, since they may not be an exact match for what's on the device.
Nov 10 21:25:12 <vol> fadden: urgh. Would you suggest I pull the .so files from the emu?
Nov 10 21:25:24 <fadden> http://source.android.com/known-issues lists it as a fixed known issue; maybe I'm misunderstanding that.
Nov 10 21:25:43 <fadden> vol: worth a try.  The trick really is having *your* shared lib in there where it can find it.
Nov 10 21:26:09 <fadden> Making gdb happy is a somewhat arcane art.
Nov 10 21:26:10 <vol> fadden: at this point, I'm trying gdbserver with "hello segfault"
Nov 10 21:26:19 <vol> so instead of doing the shlib bits, I'm just doing "file hello"
Nov 10 21:26:35 <vol> unfortunately, Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
Nov 10 21:26:35 <vol> 0xafe0d344 in ?? ()
Nov 10 21:26:35 <vol> (gdb) bt
Nov 10 21:26:35 <vol> #0  0xafe0d344 in ?? ()
Nov 10 21:26:53 <vol> which is why I'm a little less than pleased at the idea of using gdb off the emulator
Nov 10 21:27:22 <savid> so, is there any reason why I _shouldn't_ get a G1?   I'm seriously considering going by T-mo today and picking on up...
Nov 10 21:27:25 <fadden> Try "adb shell showmap <pid>" on the process.
Nov 10 21:27:36 <fadden> What's listed as mapped at 0xafe0d344 ?
Nov 10 21:27:45 <vol> savid: poor battery life, unusable camera
Nov 10 21:27:58 <savid> vol: unusable?
Nov 10 21:28:03 <vol> I do mean unusable : (
Nov 10 21:28:10 <vol> savid: it's probably the poorest quality cell camera I've seen
Nov 10 21:28:15 <savid> wow
Nov 10 21:28:20 <vol> the barcode reading stuff is pretty cool
Nov 10 21:28:25 <savid> too bad.  Is that a hardware shortcoming?
Nov 10 21:28:25 <vol> but you need to have very adequate lighting
Nov 10 21:28:28 <vol> yeah
Nov 10 21:28:34 <vol> there's plenty of other cool hardware to make up for it
Nov 10 21:28:39 <vol> compass, gps, wifi
Nov 10 21:29:26 <zhobbs> vol: I second that it's the worst camera on any phone I've used
Nov 10 21:30:16 <spikebike> vol you do know about the half press to focus... right?
Nov 10 21:30:54 <savid> so does anyone in here _regret_ getting the G1 or is having second thoughts about it?
Nov 10 21:30:57 <vol> spikebike: the coloring and blurring is absolutely horrible in anything less than natural light
Nov 10 21:31:16 <vol> on my RAZR, a low-light shot would just be somewhat grainy
Nov 10 21:31:16 <fadden> Camera tip: clean both sides of the plastic window on the back
Nov 10 21:31:21 <vol> on the G1, it's an unusable blur
Nov 10 21:31:21 <mattgyver83> savid, i think its a good phone.  However after they patched root access i really start to wonder about the freedom of the os itself.
Nov 10 21:31:43 <spikebike> Ah, most of my shots that I'm impressed with have been outside
Nov 10 21:31:59 <vol> spikebike: try it inside, like, at all.
Nov 10 21:32:06 <spikebike> I did
Nov 10 21:32:13 <spikebike> they seem... cell phone camera like ;-)
Nov 10 21:32:33 <mattgyver83> savid, does have pretty crappy battery life though.
Nov 10 21:33:09 <savid> hmm
Nov 10 21:33:19 <zhobbs> savid: I like my G1...I like the multitasking + keyboard shortcuts
Nov 10 21:33:22 <vol> fadden: showmap: not found
Nov 10 21:33:23 <trigatch4> mattgyver83: remember this isn't only about Google Android... its the T-Mobile G1... different carriers will request different amounts of openness/closedness and will customize accordingly
Nov 10 21:33:48 <fadden> vol: bugger.  Do it raw: cat /proc/<pid>/maps
Nov 10 21:34:23 <vol> ah, interesting.
Nov 10 21:34:36 <spikebike> savid it's IMO quite impressive... especially the multitasking
Nov 10 21:34:46 <vol> it shows somewhere in libc
Nov 10 21:34:47 <fadden> vol: I think I spaced on something.  If you build the emulator, and you're debugging on the emulator, the shared libs with symbols will all be there.
Nov 10 21:34:49 <vol> (unsurprising)
Nov 10 21:34:58 <fadden> vol: could be something like strcmp
Nov 10 21:35:04 <vol> oh, it absolutely is
Nov 10 21:35:06 <vol> it's sprintf
Nov 10 21:35:13 <vol> it's trying to write "%d" to 0
Nov 10 21:35:26 <vol> the problem is that the stack trace is exactly 1 frame long
Nov 10 21:35:35 <savid> well, luckily for me, I don't care much about the camera quality..    battery life, on the otherhand, is a bit more important
Nov 10 21:35:48 <fadden> vol: tracing back on ARM is tricky at best
Nov 10 21:35:49 <spikebike> savid during a dog talk... gtalk with a friend... send photo... talk about a movie... friend sends link... I read the link... and chatting... much like a desktop
Nov 10 21:36:06 <fadden> You need to have the libs with basic info available to gdb.
Nov 10 21:36:15 <spikebike> can have chat, filetransfers, taking pictures, sharing pictures, reading the web.  All at the same time (or at least it looks that way)
Nov 10 21:36:34 <fadden> But if you build the emulator out of the sources and run that, you should have everything you need.
Nov 10 21:37:09 <vol> fadden: so, I can pull the shared libs from the emu and point to them, even if I haven't built the emu myself?
Nov 10 21:37:10 <fadden> e.g. out/target/product/generic/symbols/
Nov 10 21:37:43 <fadden> vol: just do ". build/envsetup.sh" then "lunch 1" then "make"; it will build the libs, the emulator, etc.
Nov 10 21:38:02 <vol> also, after installing zlibc, it's still unable to find zlib.h (sigh)
Nov 10 21:38:06 <vol> let me try that
Nov 10 21:38:16 <fadden> vol: that's why you need the debug package for zlib.. can't remember what it's called offhand.
Nov 10 21:38:21 <vol> ah
Nov 10 21:38:24 <paperless> be
Nov 10 21:38:26 <vol> zlib1g-dbg?
Nov 10 21:38:31 <fadden> Sounds like a winner.
Nov 10 21:38:37 <vol> it's not listed on known-issues btw
Nov 10 21:38:38 <vol> not that I see
Nov 10 21:38:42 <fadden> Or "-dev"?
Nov 10 21:38:52 <vol> mm, both will be fine I'm sure
Nov 10 21:39:01 <fadden> vol: yeah, somebody else ran into it, but I don't think it has propagated up.
Nov 10 21:39:07 <savid> I wonder if someone will eventually figure out how to get root on R30...
Nov 10 21:39:38 <Disconnect> "eventually" probably. but without stupid mistakes like the console it could be prohibitively difficult
Nov 10 21:40:30 * fadden escalates
Nov 10 21:40:43 <vol> oh snap
Nov 10 21:40:58 <vol> also, what is this "lunch 1"
Nov 10 21:41:08 <fadden> Generic device target.
Nov 10 21:41:26 <fadden> You get boxed lunch #1 and #2 with the open source release.
Nov 10 21:41:27 <vol> oh, was envsetup supposed to communicate with me?
Nov 10 21:41:41 * vol fails at building android it seems
Nov 10 21:41:42 <fadden> You source envsetup.sh (*don't* run it).
Nov 10 21:41:44 <Disconnect> lol nice
Nov 10 21:41:48 <fadden> Then "lunch" becomes a shell function.
Nov 10 21:41:49 <vol> ... fug.
Nov 10 21:41:52 <Disconnect> (the boxed-lunch thing)
Nov 10 21:42:33 <vol> ". build/envsetup.sh" was kind of ambiguous
Nov 10 21:42:58 <fadden> If by "ambiguous" you mean "exactly what you should type at the shell prompt", then I agree. :-)
Nov 10 21:43:12 <fadden> But maybe I should have mentioned you have to cd to the top of the source tree first.
Nov 10 21:43:23 <vol> ah, stupid me again, I was in build
Nov 10 21:43:26 <vol> didn't relize
Nov 10 21:43:27 <vol> *realize
Nov 10 21:43:39 <vol> I also haven't seen that syntax before
Nov 10 21:43:58 <fadden> In csh it would be "source build/envsetup.sh"
Nov 10 21:44:00 <romainguy___> . == source
Nov 10 21:44:02 <fadden> Might work for bash too.
Nov 10 21:44:07 <romainguy___> fadden: it does
Nov 10 21:44:30 <vol> anyway lunch 2 is what I want, I would think. I'm going to try against the emulator first.
Nov 10 21:44:30 <fadden> I should probably type it that way so it doesn't get confused with "./build/envsetup.sh".
Nov 10 21:44:35 <fadden> vol: noooo
Nov 10 21:44:47 <fadden> vol: lunch 2 is the simulator, not the emulator -- it does a desktop build.
Nov 10 21:44:51 <vol> aha.
Nov 10 21:44:56 <fadden> Where "desktop" means "links against glibc".
Nov 10 21:44:59 <romainguy___> the simulator still works fadden?
Nov 10 21:45:03 <fadden> And uses a wxWidgets front-end.
Nov 10 21:45:15 <fadden> romainguy___: the stuff in the open-source tree doesn't exactly boot to the home screen.
Nov 10 21:45:19 <romainguy___> :))
Nov 10 21:45:21 <vol> sorry to be such a tremendous pain in the ass about this
Nov 10 21:45:52 <fadden> vol: somebody has to do it. :-)
Nov 10 21:46:20 <fadden> The simulator pre-dates the emulator substantially.  It exists mainly so we can run valgrind.
Nov 10 21:46:41 <romainguy___> fadden: I remember the simulator fondly, it was fast :))
Nov 10 21:47:34 <fadden> romainguy___: running x86 code on a system built last week usually is. :-)
Nov 10 21:47:53 <fadden> I'm still amazed qemu is as fast as it is.
Nov 10 21:49:21 <blau> anyone know how to put a linebreak in a textview?
Nov 10 21:49:38 <blau> nevermind, it works but not in the xml preview thing in eclipse
Nov 10 21:49:47 <fadden> vol: anyway -- build the emulator, put your stuff on it, set up gdb/gdbserver with all the solib stuff, and retry.
Nov 10 21:50:12 <fadden> vol: if it chokes again, get the library out of /proc/pid/maps and make sure it's finding that out of the "symbols" directory
Nov 10 21:51:43 * offby1 finally gets the R30 upgrade
Nov 10 21:52:13 <jasta> im debating whether i disable it or just take it...
Nov 10 21:52:37 <jasta> while i dont need root for any immediate purposes, i don't want to give up the option without any significant reason to upgrade
Nov 10 21:52:38 <vol> fadden: Argh, just realized. The big problem here is that my linux machine is a P3 867 with 256MB of memory. The emulator is NOT running on this machine. It's sitting on a windows machine, because that machine is fast. I mean I guess I could use a boot disk, but that's kind of cumbersome
Nov 10 21:52:58 <vol> jasta: just get the whatsit that has su still enabled
Nov 10 21:53:42 <kRutOn> < Disconnect> spikebike: that'd be jesusfreke's recovery+rc30
Nov 10 21:53:45 <fadden> vol: bleargh.  Back to the "copy libs out of the emulator" plan, I guess.
Nov 10 21:53:47 <dream_kill> re
Nov 10 21:53:57 <jasta> vol: what "whatsit"?
Nov 10 21:54:01 <fadden> Or maybe "dear boss, get me a Linux box that does not suck".
Nov 10 21:54:11 <kRutOn> jasta: see my paste from Disconnected
Nov 10 21:54:15 <kRutOn> er, Disconnect
Nov 10 21:54:22 <vol> fadden: yeah, good luck with that.
Nov 10 21:54:25 <vol> sigh
Nov 10 21:55:40 <jasta> kRutOn: not seeing it?
Nov 10 21:55:51 <vol> I'm getting 2x256MB memory sometime this week! (hooray)
Nov 10 21:56:03 <jasta> is 512MB a lot to you?
Nov 10 21:56:11 <fadden> vol: gdb scans from the PC back to the start of the function, where "start of the function" comes out of the lib somehow.  From there it walks through to figure out what regs got pushed on the stack.
Nov 10 21:56:14 <jasta> my dev machine at home has 6GB...
Nov 10 21:56:31 <Disconnect> so... is anyone else shocked that basics like "working core apps" (email, camera, wifi) aren't on the roadmap?
Nov 10 21:56:31 <fadden> I don't know if the gdbserver stub can pull this out of the process.
Nov 10 21:56:37 <trigatch4> hey jasta, does your nick have any particular meaning/origin?
Nov 10 21:56:45 <vol> fadden: hmph
Nov 10 21:56:47 <jasta> yes, but its not interesting
Nov 10 21:56:49 <trigatch4> just curious.. everytime i see it, i wonder
Nov 10 21:57:07 <vol> again, it would be significantly simpler for me if I could just create a /data partition that was more than 64M
Nov 10 21:57:11 <trigatch4> makes me think rastah, jastafarian ha
Nov 10 21:57:42 <jasta> no, i used to drink a lot of josta cola when i was 12, and when i started using the internet.  for some reason, josta was taken on prodigy, so i just spelled it as jasta.
Nov 10 21:57:47 <jasta> and that's who i've been ever since
Nov 10 21:58:05 <Giga> thats awesome
Nov 10 21:59:12 <trigatch4> ha
Nov 10 21:59:16 <trigatch4> pretty sweet
Nov 10 21:59:45 <vol> fadden: what did you guys use for c++ development/debugging internally with this? A coworker wants to use xcode for this
Nov 10 22:00:22 <fadden> vol: half the team is on Mac, half is on Linux (roughly)
Nov 10 22:00:33 <fadden> Choice of dev env varies.
Nov 10 22:01:05 <vol> I assume that debugging in xcode involves just setting an option for remote targetting somewhere right?
Nov 10 22:01:28 <fadden> vol: I'm part of the Linux half, so I don't know
Nov 10 22:01:56 <romainguy> some use Eclipse
Nov 10 22:02:13 <vol> for the C dev? cool.
Nov 10 22:02:15 <romainguy> fadden: Mathias was telling me that debugging native code from Eclipse was actually nice
Nov 10 22:02:15 <fadden> I don't do much Java work, so I use vi / gdb.
Nov 10 22:02:29 <fadden> Eclipse provides a front-end for gdb.
Nov 10 22:05:42 <Disconnect> is http://git.source.android.com/?o=age up to date with the internal google tree?
Nov 10 22:05:57 <romainguy> Disconnect: depends
Nov 10 22:09:34 <michaelnovakjr> Glance 1.1 update is available at http://androidnerds.com
Nov 10 22:09:48 <Disconnect> romainguy: .....
Nov 10 22:10:01 <romainguy> Disconnect: I'm serious :)
Nov 10 22:10:15 <fadden> Yes, it's true.  The source tree uses Depends.
Nov 10 22:10:23 <romainguy> it's up to date with the branch we used to ship the G1
Nov 10 22:10:49 <romainguy> but some of our branches and our current mainline are not on git (yet)
Nov 10 22:10:59 <romainguy> (you may have noticed given the low level of activity)
Nov 10 22:11:32 <jasta> is that going to be how development proceeds always or just a temporary condition while google internally switches?
Nov 10 22:11:38 <Disconnect> yah thats kinda what i was eying (you noticed the sort i take it :) ..)
Nov 10 22:11:56 <Disconnect> romainguy: how about hte branch you used to ship rc29?
Nov 10 22:12:26 <romainguy> Disconnect: rc28 is probably in git already
Nov 10 22:12:50 <romainguy> because the git tree was created long after we shipped internally
Nov 10 22:13:11 <romainguy> jasta: it's temporary
Nov 10 22:13:20 <Disconnect> fun. i think (at least today) jasta has the more important question :)
Nov 10 22:13:34 <romainguy> it's not easy to do a switch
Nov 10 22:14:11 <Disconnect> and is there an official statement on "carrier Foo took the tree and close-sourced their copy"? (istr apache allows that, although i haven't looked at it in a few weeks.)
Nov 10 22:15:16 <romainguy> Disconnect: why would there be an official statement? they can do it without telling anybody
Nov 10 22:15:44 <Disconnect> yah i meant a google/android position. other than "well damn, that sucked. anyone got a bandaid?" :)
Nov 10 22:16:12 <andyross> Given that google is hosting the updates, I doubt TMO has a whole lot of direct control over the builds.  All the closed platform code is in binary blobs anyway.
Nov 10 22:16:52 * Disconnect is off tho, time to go to pt and then hack on dropbear some more.
Nov 10 22:17:04 <blau> about to release a new app!
Nov 10 22:19:04 <Laz> aircrack?
Nov 10 22:19:25 <defcon_> yea plz
Nov 10 22:19:37 <defcon_> release it to the market
Nov 10 22:19:37 <defcon_> lol
Nov 10 22:19:49 <defcon_> id laugh
Nov 10 22:22:04 <defcon_> the ti wlan driver is open src right
Nov 10 22:22:17 <blau> uplaoded
Nov 10 22:22:38 <Laz> think so
Nov 10 22:22:53 <blau> its in communications of the app store
Nov 10 22:24:17 <sfuentes> android uses an FPGA, right?
Nov 10 22:24:44 <digitalspaghetti> http://code.google.com/p/livelocations/  What do you guys think?
Nov 10 22:24:53 <defcon_> blau, quick cut?
Nov 10 22:26:08 <blau> yeah
Nov 10 22:26:15 <defcon_> blau, is it possible to modify that to bring up a menu from the home screen with options instead of opening the keypad
Nov 10 22:26:18 <blau> my stupid phone has 7 megs left and its saying its full
Nov 10 22:26:24 <defcon_> a quick menu
Nov 10 22:26:47 <blau> def, not sure whatyou mean
Nov 10 22:26:49 <digitalspaghetti> blau: i like it, 5/5 :)
Nov 10 22:26:50 <spikebike> digitalspaghetti I think the biggest problem is that most folks have the gps off most of the time
Nov 10 22:28:07 <defcon_> gave u 5/5
Nov 10 22:28:13 <blau> thanks guys
Nov 10 22:28:19 <waldo__> <- has it on
Nov 10 22:28:22 <digitalspaghetti> well it's handy for those times your lost for example
Nov 10 22:28:32 <spikebike> right
Nov 10 22:28:44 <spikebike> but I suspect across all G1's it's < 1% of the time
Nov 10 22:28:50 <blau> i leave cell tower location on
Nov 10 22:28:54 <blau> and turn on gps when i need it
Nov 10 22:29:14 <spikebike> yeah, I don't think cell tower costs anything you have to check in anyways
Nov 10 22:29:32 <tomgibara> digitalspaghetti: I think that apps that demand constant and accurate location awareness are doomed by battery life for the moment
Nov 10 22:29:52 <spikebike> so if which city you are in is all you need then it might work
Nov 10 22:29:59 <blau> is live locations an actual google thing, or just somebody making it?
Nov 10 22:30:09 <digitalspaghetti> the thing is, it's not an app in the sense of say GPS tracker.  It's more a general location tool to link your contacts with geolocation
Nov 10 22:30:10 <blau> oh digital spaghetti :)
Nov 10 22:30:33 <defcon_> blau, add a gmail option
Nov 10 22:30:39 <defcon_> shortcut to gmail
Nov 10 22:30:57 <spikebike> I was thinking something more along the lines of figuring our where you are by access point
Nov 10 22:31:06 <digitalspaghetti> in teh way you can add a contacts address and click to see the location maps, this allows more live location stuff
Nov 10 22:31:09 <spikebike> i.e. a friend walks into the same borders that youa re in
Nov 10 22:31:11 <blau> def, good idea
Nov 10 22:31:12 <defcon_> also, how about pre-defined  messages to send?
Nov 10 22:31:19 <digitalspaghetti> and it doesn't need to be just the Android
Nov 10 22:31:30 <digitalspaghetti> for example there could be a Firefox Geod support
Nov 10 22:31:35 <spikebike> there are such things as non-g1 friends? ;-)
Nov 10 22:32:00 <blau> def, predefined message but without a to address?
Nov 10 22:32:01 <defcon_> i wonder how well operamini for android will be once its released
Nov 10 22:32:02 <blau> or something else?
Nov 10 22:32:04 <digitalspaghetti> so your sitting in a web cafe, and you update your location from the browser cos you have your laptop and your phones chargin :)
Nov 10 22:32:19 <defcon_> well popup to specify who to send to
Nov 10 22:32:40 <defcon_> it fills in the text, and lets u type in the contact
Nov 10 22:32:53 <blau> ok good idea
Nov 10 22:33:00 <defcon_> wrd
Nov 10 22:33:07 <digitalspaghetti> thats a good idea too, kind of like brightkite alerts when someone checks in close to you
Nov 10 22:33:42 <defcon_> does locale drain battery like crazy or is it just me
Nov 10 22:33:59 <blau> crap my laptop battery si down like crazy
Nov 10 22:34:03 <blau> ill ttyl
Nov 10 22:34:04 <spikebike> btw I find setting your gtalk status quite nice for similar kind of where I am now behavior
Nov 10 22:34:09 <defcon_> ttyl
Nov 10 22:34:22 <digitalspaghetti> spikebike: another good idea
Nov 10 22:34:27 <languish> ugh, I suspect one of the apps I installed recently sent my info to a spam list
Nov 10 22:34:28 <defcon_> yea that works
Nov 10 22:34:34 <Laz> Ill give $20 to whoever ports gnome or kde over
Nov 10 22:34:45 <defcon_> matter fact
Nov 10 22:34:45 <digitalspaghetti> if your status is available update my position (either by cell location or GPS)
Nov 10 22:34:53 <digitalspaghetti> otherwise don't update position
Nov 10 22:34:53 <defcon_> i'll give 20 bucks whoever gets pidgin working
Nov 10 22:34:58 <defcon_> ;)
Nov 10 22:35:10 <defcon_> or a contact list widget
Nov 10 22:35:15 <defcon_> that would be sick
Nov 10 22:35:21 <sfuentes> rc29 is good, right?
Nov 10 22:35:22 <spikebike> "TGIF@Sophias"
Nov 10 22:35:27 <spikebike> sfuentes: yes
Nov 10 22:35:34 <Laz> yes
Nov 10 22:35:36 <Laz> very
Nov 10 22:35:42 <vol> fadden: phenomenal. I finally yanked the shared libs off the emu (got called away), and setting set solib-search-path loaded the right libs!
Nov 10 22:35:43 <Laz> r00t it!!
Nov 10 22:35:45 <sfuentes> spikebike: how do i request that update?
Nov 10 22:35:47 <vol> hooray!
Nov 10 22:35:52 <blau1> oops forgot to make the donate button work
Nov 10 22:35:59 <spikebike> sfuentes: what are you at now?
Nov 10 22:36:08 <fadden> vol: hooray!  Do you have a full stack trace now?
Nov 10 22:36:09 <sfuentes> spikebike: rc28
Nov 10 22:36:17 <spikebike> any cut -> device info
Nov 10 22:36:18 <vol> fadden: Yes, that gave me a full stack trace for hello segfault : )
Nov 10 22:36:21 <spikebike> click on update
Nov 10 22:36:23 <Laz> Get the modified rc30
Nov 10 22:36:30 <spikebike> ya, or just do that
Nov 10 22:36:45 <vol> thanks again for so much help
Nov 10 22:36:54 <fadden> np
Nov 10 22:37:12 <sfuentes> where is modified rc30?
Nov 10 22:37:30 <digitalspaghetti> spikebike: i added that idea to the security feature list :)
Nov 10 22:37:46 <clicke> how is the vetting process for getting an app into the market?  Is it instant or do you wait for it to get approved?
Nov 10 22:37:58 <romainguy> there's no approval
Nov 10 22:38:15 <g1er> sfuentes: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713
Nov 10 22:38:15 <clicke> so you pay and publish as you like?
Nov 10 22:38:36 <romainguy> pay *once* :)
Nov 10 22:38:42 <spikebike> I think it's $25 for a key and then publish as much as you want
Nov 10 22:38:50 <spikebike> as long as it's not outright malicious/deceptive
Nov 10 22:38:57 <tomgibara> I set out to publish the simplest useful app I could think of, yet I've had more emails asking how to use it than I've ever had for anything else. How does that happen?
Nov 10 22:38:59 <clicke> yeah
Nov 10 22:39:19 <romainguy> tomgibara: you should see the emails I getabout ShutterSpeed :)
Nov 10 22:39:20 <spikebike> tomgibara the g1 is attractive to normal folk
Nov 10 22:39:28 <spikebike> and ther'es a contact devel button
Nov 10 22:39:31 <digitalspaghetti> tomgibara: people not used to the new UI i suppose
Nov 10 22:39:40 <tomgibara> romainguy: I can guess from the comments I read :)
Nov 10 22:39:56 <clicke> and has the revenue system been worked out?
Nov 10 22:40:04 <spikebike> yeah
Nov 10 22:40:15 <fadden> "These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
Nov 10 22:40:18 <spikebike> put out a teaser app and redirect to the pro version if they want to upgrade
Nov 10 22:40:26 <tomgibara> This is an app with one text box, it shouldn't be an interface problem, unless I've done a really bad job!
Nov 10 22:40:53 <tomgibara> fadden: Quote from whom?
Nov 10 22:40:54 <digitalspaghetti> what app tomgibara ?
Nov 10 22:41:08 <tomgibara> digitalspaghetti: Pintail
Nov 10 22:41:39 <fadden> tomgibara: Blazing Saddles (movie)
Nov 10 22:41:56 <spikebike> tomgibara thinking of allowing XMPP triggers?
Nov 10 22:42:00 <tomgibara> I wrote it for myself because I can be quite absent minded, and thought it would be useful for others, seems to be for some anyway.
Nov 10 22:42:14 * spikebike is a cheapskate
Nov 10 22:42:21 <clicke> and lastly, are there any sales figures so far for the G1?  Any concrete data on how well it is doing? (not speculation from Engadget)
Nov 10 22:42:53 <spikebike> clicke look at application downloads
Nov 10 22:43:05 <tomgibara> clicke: I would like the market to just tell me how many people have downloaded my app (so that I can work out what percentage of users can't use it)
Nov 10 22:43:36 <tomgibara> spikebike: XMPP - can't say its a priority atm
Nov 10 22:43:56 <spikebike> K, I'm working with XMPP for other things, I'm rather pleased with it so far
Nov 10 22:43:57 <digitalspaghetti> seems simple enough, although i'll need to try text my phone
Nov 10 22:44:04 <spikebike> i.e. ease of sending a message from any platform
Nov 10 22:44:15 <spikebike> and of course not charging the sender or receiver.
Nov 10 22:44:55 <tomgibara> I perceived the benefit of using SMS being that I wasn't chugging on the battery, the only time the app works is when an SMS comes in.
Nov 10 22:45:02 <digitalspaghetti> it XMPP what GTalk uses?  What other uses does it have?
Nov 10 22:45:29 <spikebike> gtalk is er compatible with xmpp
Nov 10 22:45:44 <spikebike> tomgibara gtalk is the same I believe
Nov 10 22:45:52 <spikebike> IM -> anything but gtalk isn't
Nov 10 22:46:17 <spikebike> i.e. I gtalk my 2nd phone and without having the launch anything it gets notified
Nov 10 22:46:17 <clicke> is there talk of future android devices with UMA?
Nov 10 22:46:24 <spikebike> dunno
Nov 10 22:46:30 <digitalspaghetti> When I set upa GTalk account in pidgin it then defaults to XMPP
Nov 10 22:46:40 <spikebike> ya
Nov 10 22:46:57 <spikebike> clicke: no UMA in hardware, some devels claim someone could write it though
Nov 10 22:47:20 <digitalspaghetti> i suppose my app idea would be better through GTalk
Nov 10 22:47:49 <spikebike> I've got 400 free per month, didn't want to spring for the extra $10
Nov 10 22:47:50 <tomgibara> spikebike: I can't see how XMPP can be as efficient as SMS in this context - for example, I don't want my app using up memory running as a service
Nov 10 22:47:56 <digitalspaghetti> anyone who has a G1 will have a google account, so tie the contact stuff in on that rather than number or email
Nov 10 22:48:15 <spikebike> tomgibara whatever is running to receive a gtalk message is already running
Nov 10 22:48:36 <digitalspaghetti> even when you sign out?
Nov 10 22:48:51 <spikebike> dunno... but the default is that it works
Nov 10 22:49:00 <spikebike> unless I really screwed up something
Nov 10 22:49:49 <pr4bh> hi guys
Nov 10 22:50:02 <tomgibara> spikebike: but can you piggyback onto the XMPP service that gtalk is using to send/receive messages?
Nov 10 22:50:26 <spikebike> how does your app work?
Nov 10 22:50:35 <spikebike> You hook into the SMS receive notification?
Nov 10 22:50:41 <tomgibara> yes
Nov 10 22:50:49 <sfuentes> spikebike: so modified rc30 will have no problems with future updates?
Nov 10 22:50:58 <spikebike> I kinda assume there's a gtalk receive notification, but I havne't checked yet
Nov 10 22:50:58 <Jondice> I'm trying to build the Browser app, and noticed that it makes use of some hidden APIs, e.g. android.provider.Downloads
Nov 10 22:51:13 <pr4bh> i am developing a very simple application with basically a textview with embedded fonts with data in xml. This error is driving me crazy: The reference to entity 'Ik' must end with a ; delimiter, how do i overome this?
Nov 10 22:51:15 <spikebike> sfuentes: tmo will nolonger have updates signed with yoru keys
Nov 10 22:51:20 <Jondice> do i simply need to rebuild android.jar without these being hidden, and if so, will the resulting browser work on a G1?
Nov 10 22:51:21 <spikebike> sfuentes: so they can't update your phone
Nov 10 22:52:13 <digitalspaghetti> man, T-Mobile UK's site is pretty pants
Nov 10 22:52:26 <digitalspaghetti> obviously designed for the lowest common denominator
Nov 10 22:52:50 <Jondice> digitalspaghetti, i'm just glad the g1 is better than their site .. haha
Nov 10 22:52:50 <sfuentes> spikebike: so no future updates is a good thing?
Nov 10 22:52:59 <Jondice> US site is no better
Nov 10 22:53:15 <spikebike> sfuentes: IMO yes, the community will cherry pick the updates and offer them repackaged
Nov 10 22:53:49 <pr4bh> i am developing a very simple application with basically a textview with embedded fonts with data in xml. This error is driving me crazy: The reference to entity 'Ik' must end with a ; delimiter, how do i overome this? plz help?
Nov 10 22:54:27 <Laz> I cross-compiled world of warcraft
Nov 10 22:55:21 <digitalspaghetti> what?
Nov 10 22:55:26 <Jondice> Laz, nice... to darvik? ...
Nov 10 22:55:42 <Laz> no
Nov 10 22:55:45 <Laz> debian
Nov 10 22:56:29 <spikebike> will it run in 64MB? ;-)
Nov 10 22:57:03 <Laz> slowly
Nov 10 22:57:15 <fadden> Swap to /sdcard !
Nov 10 22:59:36 <androoid> Laz: i'll buy that app
Nov 10 22:59:43 <ttuttle> fadden: No!
Nov 10 22:59:46 <Jondice> i think android needs an EQ1 client
Nov 10 22:59:52 <Jondice> or maybe i need an android to play it for me
Nov 10 22:59:59 <Jondice> the other kind of android
Nov 10 23:00:08 <Laz> androoid: you have debian installed?
Nov 10 23:00:49 <androoid> oh i thought it was for android
Nov 10 23:01:11 <pr4bh> motherf0ckers
Nov 10 23:01:26 <Laz> its for the g1 :)
Nov 10 23:04:47 <defcon_> what resolution video should I encode mp4's for the g1 with
Nov 10 23:04:51 <defcon_> plus bitrate
Nov 10 23:06:07 <marcone> 480x320, H.264. Bitrates up to 2MB should be OK, but you don't really need to go that high.
Nov 10 23:06:28 <marcone> 2MB->2Mbit/sec
Nov 10 23:10:24 <digitalspaghetti> i've downloaded that new The Xtacles & Friski Dingo to encode and watch
Nov 10 23:10:45 <digitalspaghetti> what you guys using?  I'm usng Super
Nov 10 23:15:16 <languish> digitalspaghetti, i use super too
Nov 10 23:15:26 <languish> works just fine, if a bit slow, but I don't care
Nov 10 23:15:42 <Laz> i watch 1920x1080 videos on my g1
Nov 10 23:15:48 <languish> it's on an old dedicated box for encoding
Nov 10 23:16:08 <languish> laz, sure you do buddy, one frame at a time
Nov 10 23:16:18 <languish> per geologic age
Nov 10 23:16:55 <Laz> it runs really smooth since i downconverted them to 480x320
Nov 10 23:17:00 <languish> streaming a 1920x1080 source video that's rencoded on the fly for the G1 != watching 1920x1080
Nov 10 23:17:07 <languish> or that yes
Nov 10 23:17:45 <languish> <orbgasm> i met somebody who got the G1 today, and they told me they're disappointed
Nov 10 23:17:49 <languish> some people just totally fail
Nov 10 23:17:53 <ExpiredPopsicle> I cluster a small network of G1s, with their screens side by side to watch in 2048x1536.
Nov 10 23:18:03 <languish> oh the rest didn't paste
Nov 10 23:18:14 <languish> [17:26] <orbgasm> i asked them why
Nov 10 23:18:14 <languish> [17:26] <orbgasm> and they said
Nov 10 23:18:14 <languish> [17:26] <orbgasm> i can't watch porn on it.
Nov 10 23:18:16 <ExpiredPopsicle> ... or not.
Nov 10 23:18:49 <fadden> If you build it, ... never mind.
Nov 10 23:19:00 <ExpiredPopsicle> heh
Nov 10 23:19:40 <ExpiredPopsicle> Beowulf cluster of G1s. >_>
Nov 10 23:19:52 <languish> there was some thread on a forum that got deleted or modified that had G1 compatible streaming sites, and the OP was posting sites with porn
Nov 10 23:20:17 <languish> that alone will spell the G1's success
Nov 10 23:20:30 <ExpiredPopsicle> hahaha
Nov 10 23:20:48 <ExpiredPopsicle> Hey, it worked for the VCR and the internet.
Nov 10 23:21:39 <Jondice> and the TI-89
Nov 10 23:21:55 <ExpiredPopsicle> I love my ti-89.
Nov 10 23:22:33 <clicke> pron will sell anything
Nov 10 23:22:37 <sfuentes> TI89 rocks!
Nov 10 23:22:37 <SplasPood> Expired has thwe right idea
Nov 10 23:23:07 <Jondice> shouldn't be hard to port the youtube app to pornotube, or uhm, youporn
Nov 10 23:23:17 <sfuentes> do u guys have DoorsOS on it?
Nov 10 23:23:18 <Jondice> not that i would know anything about those sites
Nov 10 23:23:54 <Jondice> i never used DoorsOS actually
Nov 10 23:24:03 <SplasPood> what's with this + stuff
Nov 10 23:24:13 <Jondice> the name sounds familiar though, sadly i haven't touched my ti-89 in quite a while
Nov 10 23:24:31 <Jondice> mainly use sagemath.org these days, which luckily i can use from the g1 now!
Nov 10 23:24:32 <ExpiredPopsicle> I wonder if I should feel silly for IRCing in public now. Nah.
Nov 10 23:24:42 <Jondice> still, the mobile interface (i.e., none) is lacking
Nov 10 23:26:54 <ExpiredPopsicle> As a college student, the ti89 makes my life much easier.
Nov 10 23:27:54 <languish> ExpiredPopsicle, sidekick users have been irc'ing in public for awhile. everyone just assumes it's tct'ing
Nov 10 23:27:59 <languish> *txt'ing
Nov 10 23:28:01 <clicke> you kids and your calculators... when I was in school, we had to count with our fingers.  Toes and penises came later when we did multiplication.
Nov 10 23:28:12 <ExpiredPopsicle> hah
Nov 10 23:28:27 <ExpiredPopsicle> I had a Sidekick 2 and Sidekick 3.
Nov 10 23:28:37 <languish> irssi
Nov 10 23:28:47 <ExpiredPopsicle> But I gave them up because of developer unfriendliness.
Nov 10 23:28:53 <languish> heh
Nov 10 23:29:12 <ExpiredPopsicle> I used to irc with them all the time too.
Nov 10 23:29:36 <languish> yeah, driving and sidekick ircing seems to have been a thing
Nov 10 23:29:40 <ExpiredPopsicle> Buy now I have a phone where I can do that again. Yay.
Nov 10 23:29:42 <languish> and now.. ditto for the G1
Nov 10 23:29:49 <languish> ding
Nov 10 23:29:58 <languish> "I'm at a stop light"
Nov 10 23:30:00 <sfuentes> clicke: u counted multiple penises?
Nov 10 23:30:13 <languish> "I'm on Santa Anna Blvd, heading to wendys'
Nov 10 23:30:21 <sfuentes> something weird about that
Nov 10 23:30:37 <languish> sfuentes, his, and the one in his..
Nov 10 23:30:39 <languish> n/m
Nov 10 23:30:47 <ExpiredPopsicle> I think the maps app is going to get me into an accident one of these days.
Nov 10 23:31:32 <sfuentes> ExpiredPosicle: use bluetooth ... it fixes everything ;)
Nov 10 23:31:38 <languish> "Turn Left here"  - y helo side of federal building
Nov 10 23:31:49 <ExpiredPopsicle> heh
Nov 10 23:32:23 <languish> speaking of irc
Nov 10 23:32:26 <languish> :D
Nov 10 23:32:36 <clicke> ExpiredPopsicle: Sounds like me using google maps on my Blackberry Curve while driving...
Nov 10 23:32:48 <ExpiredPopsicle> Hmm... irssi is starting to act up a bit.
Nov 10 23:32:51 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Nov 10 23:33:10 <michaelnovakjr_> yes languish ...
Nov 10 23:33:16 <languish> well slap it down with a good custom theme
Nov 10 23:33:56 <languish> michaelnovakjr, we really were speaking of irc before you came in.. :P
Nov 10 23:35:04 <michaelnovakjr_> ah :)
Nov 10 23:35:33 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm working on that client now, i've put glance up for testing :)
Nov 10 23:35:45 <ExpiredPopsicle> An irc client? :o
Nov 10 23:36:06 <michaelnovakjr_> indeed
Nov 10 23:36:59 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm hope to get out a version of the client soon
Nov 10 23:37:05 <ExpiredPopsicle> With that, I predict, my productivity will actually bottom out.
Nov 10 23:37:13 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Nov 10 23:37:13 <romainguy> there are 3 file managers now
Nov 10 23:37:14 <ExpiredPopsicle> woohoo!
Nov 10 23:37:21 <michaelnovakjr_> romainguy, its annoying
Nov 10 23:37:33 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr_: that you're a bunch of über geeks? yes :)))
Nov 10 23:37:34 <michaelnovakjr_> romainguy i almost stopped caring about mine because its a waste to have three
Nov 10 23:37:38 <g1er> any downside to following the "I highly recommend the following" part found -> http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f28/i-have-rc30-and-root-6867/
Nov 10 23:37:52 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr_: well I hate the two I've tried
Nov 10 23:38:02 <michaelnovakjr_> was glance one of them?
Nov 10 23:38:04 <romainguy> so maybe I'll enjoy yours :p
Nov 10 23:38:05 <romainguy> no
Nov 10 23:38:18 <michaelnovakjr_> mine is pretty simple.... i didn't add gps or anything
Nov 10 23:38:21 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Nov 10 23:38:40 <trigatch4> romainguy: what did you hate about the other 2,out of curiousity?
Nov 10 23:38:55 <romainguy> trigatch4:
Nov 10 23:38:59 <romainguy> trigatch4: awefully ugly
Nov 10 23:39:03 <romainguy> and weird UIs
Nov 10 23:39:13 <languish> lol
Nov 10 23:39:54 <andyross> g1er: That's mostly just paranoia.  And the instructions aren't sufficient anyway, you'd need to turn off read access to the directory containing the "secret word".  Never trust security advice from an amateur, basically.
Nov 10 23:40:19 <languish> has anyone else started getting txt spam on their G1's after installing wifiscanner?
Nov 10 23:40:34 <languish> err "wifiscan"
Nov 10 23:40:42 <languish> that, or the terminal app
Nov 10 23:40:59 <languish> after master resetting the phone, that's all I downloaded
Nov 10 23:41:27 <jasta> romainguy: re your async bitmap decoding, are you just using a separate thread to schedule work or something fancier?
Nov 10 23:41:31 <languish> oh, and the apps installer.
Nov 10 23:41:34 <languish> :|
Nov 10 23:41:36 <g1er> andyross: Thanks.
Nov 10 23:41:49 <languish> which I haven't tested yet
Nov 10 23:42:04 <romainguy> jasta: it's fancier than that; it involves a UserTask and touch/scroll isteners
Nov 10 23:42:11 <michaelnovakjr_> well, romainguy let me know what you think of my browser
Nov 10 23:42:28 * languish likes Glance
Nov 10 23:42:47 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Nov 10 23:42:49 <languish> though by saying that, I may have just tainted romainguy against it
Nov 10 23:42:50 <languish> :|
Nov 10 23:42:54 <languish> lulz
Nov 10 23:43:03 <romainguy> languish: you don't like anything, I don't believe you :p
Nov 10 23:43:08 <languish> ^_^
Nov 10 23:43:13 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Nov 10 23:43:21 <jasta> romainguy: why a scroll listener?
Nov 10 23:43:47 <romainguy> I load only when the view is not in fling mode
Nov 10 23:43:53 <languish> is the nylinda.com dev in here?
Nov 10 23:43:56 <jasta> ahh.
Nov 10 23:44:17 <jasta> UserTask is just a thread that communicates back to the UI thread with a handler though right?
Nov 10 23:44:23 <romainguy> yep
Nov 10 23:44:43 <jasta> im gonna experiment with that and see how i like it in my app
Nov 10 23:44:49 <languish> also the dev of one of the other file managers (not Glance) has on their website "The Most Popular App - Android File Manager
Nov 10 23:44:58 <languish> i mean
Nov 10 23:45:01 <languish> according to what?
Nov 10 23:45:11 <languish> it's not the most popular in the Market
Nov 10 23:45:34 <michaelnovakjr_> i though you couldn't have the word 'Android' in your app name?
Nov 10 23:45:48 <Gary135791> why not?
Nov 10 23:45:58 <Gary135791> Also, anyone have problems sending MMS pictures to someone else on T-Mobile?
Nov 10 23:46:08 <Gary135791> I sent one last night to my gf, she said she got it 4 times
Nov 10 23:46:15 <romainguy> jasta: I also did fancy things to avoid loading when the user touches the screen temporarily to relaunch the fling
Nov 10 23:46:20 <languish> michaelnovakjr, you;re not supposed to.
Nov 10 23:46:22 <romainguy> (during a fling, fling again)
Nov 10 23:46:56 <languish> michaelnovakjr, they updated the rules for using "appnameDroid" though. you can "register" to request permission
Nov 10 23:47:07 <oyeoj> i sent it to your gf 4 times, too
Nov 10 23:47:18 <languish> that's ok, I had ur gf 4x
Nov 10 23:47:20 <languish> :|
Nov 10 23:47:28 <languish> sry, force of habit.
Nov 10 23:48:07 <jasta> romainguy: why would you want that behaviour though?  it would seem like if they "hold" the list it should load the images
Nov 10 23:48:16 <jasta> but if they fling, cancel any pending work
Nov 10 23:48:16 <romainguy> and it does just that
Nov 10 23:48:41 <romainguy> except the scroll state changes as soon as you touch the screen
Nov 10 23:48:54 <jasta> do you also utilize a bitmap cache?
Nov 10 23:48:58 <romainguy> so I had to work around this
Nov 10 23:48:59 <romainguy> yes
Nov 10 23:49:06 <romainguy> I disabled the GridView cache
Nov 10 23:49:10 <romainguy> and I use my own on the side
Nov 10 23:49:18 <romainguy> based on soft references
Nov 10 23:49:38 <jasta> i have a question while i've got you here...
Nov 10 23:49:47 <jasta> i notice that the list of applications on the home screen scrolls very slowly
Nov 10 23:49:53 <jasta> is that a known issue?
Nov 10 23:50:28 <jasta> the grid of app icons that opens up when you pull up the drawer on the bottom, i mean.
Nov 10 23:50:33 <tomgibara> jasta: I'm guessing that's the work of compositing
Nov 10 23:50:36 <jasta> scrolling inside of that grid is slow
Nov 10 23:50:45 <romainguy> jasta: yes
Nov 10 23:50:52 <romainguy> and there's not much we can do right now
Nov 10 23:51:06 <tomgibara> romainguy: What does cause that?
Nov 10 23:51:07 <romainguy> (well there are two solutions but they're both very painful)
Nov 10 23:51:19 <romainguy> tomgibara: it's just a lot of pixels to draw and composite
Nov 10 23:51:41 <romainguy> (wallpaper + desktop icons + grid background + grid content)
Nov 10 23:51:56 <tomgibara> Yeah, that's what I guessed based on my experience - it's still faster that I expected it would be
Nov 10 23:52:15 <romainguy> I play a lot with caching
Nov 10 23:52:16 <spikebike> tomgibara is pintail source available?
Nov 10 23:52:27 <romainguy> but blitting a screenful of pixels takes about 4ms
Nov 10 23:52:31 <romainguy> and that cannot go down
Nov 10 23:52:46 <romainguy> so when you composite about 3 times the screen...
Nov 10 23:52:47 <tomgibara> spikebike: No, why are you interested?
Nov 10 23:53:01 <spikebike> to look at the activate on SMS code
Nov 10 23:53:05 <jasta> romainguy: are you going to make an attempt to use OpenGL for this at some point?
Nov 10 23:53:26 <romainguy> we already did
Nov 10 23:53:30 <romainguy> look at Home's source code
Nov 10 23:53:35 <romainguy> you can see remnants of this experiment
Nov 10 23:53:41 <jasta> what was the conclusion?
Nov 10 23:53:42 <tomgibara> spikebike: I based it on some code I found on the developer group
Nov 10 23:53:55 <romainguy> jasta: doesn't help much in that case
Nov 10 23:54:03 <spikebike> romain yeah I read one of the game developers mentioning insuring there is zero transparency was key to performance
Nov 10 23:54:07 <jasta> romainguy: really?  OpenGL compositing should be very fast.
Nov 10 23:54:13 <romainguy> oh compositing is fast
Nov 10 23:54:15 <spikebike> tomgibara ah, ok, I'll look around
Nov 10 23:54:17 <romainguy> but OpenGL has its own issues
Nov 10 23:54:21 <tomgibara> jasta: But there are other overheads
Nov 10 23:54:26 <romainguy> first of all you *have* to redraw the entire screen on every frame
Nov 10 23:54:30 <romainguy> which made drag and drop suck big time
Nov 10 23:54:45 <romainguy> then it was churning tons of textures
Nov 10 23:54:54 <romainguy> and those are really slow to create/update
Nov 10 23:55:10 <romainguy> and tons of other smaller issues
Nov 10 23:55:39 <jasta> hmm, so what's the next step?
Nov 10 23:55:40 <romainguy> so we hope to revive the experiment into a full API but we'll probably wait for OpenGL ES 2.0 chips
Nov 10 23:55:45 <romainguy> jasta: no next step, deal with it :)
Nov 10 23:55:52 <jasta> ahh :)
Nov 10 23:56:04 <romainguy> like I said there is a couple of solutions
Nov 10 23:56:06 <romainguy> one is GL
Nov 10 23:56:11 <romainguy> but it's not practical right now
Nov 10 23:56:19 <romainguy> the other one is to make Home use several windows/surfaces
Nov 10 23:56:26 <romainguy> but that makes drag and drop a nightmare
Nov 10 23:56:26 <jasta> why even do compositing real time?  why not just assume the background doesn't change and snapshot it?
Nov 10 23:56:45 <romainguy> which is pretty much what it does already
Nov 10 23:56:46 <tomgibara> jasta: Might have a clock behind it for example
Nov 10 23:56:49 <romainguy> but yeah
Nov 10 23:56:50 <jasta> like the old translucent terminal trick for X
Nov 10 23:56:58 <romainguy> clock, widgets, installed shortcuts, etc.
Nov 10 23:57:03 <romainguy> jasta: except you could tell and it sucked :)
Nov 10 23:57:25 <romainguy> there's more value in keeping it that way and optimizing the view hierarchy and SGL
Nov 10 23:58:11 <jasta> i wonder if you couldn't at least develop a crutch that checks for redraw attempts on any child of the main home view
Nov 10 23:58:34 <romainguy> that's done by the bitmap caching already
Nov 10 23:59:04 <jasta> oh, so compositing isn't happening as yo uscroll around?
Nov 10 23:59:08 <romainguy> it does
Nov 10 23:59:42 <romainguy> the widgets, icons etc. are cached
Nov 10 23:59:45 <romainguy> but still composited
Nov 11 00:00:01 <romainguy> because on an update, it would be a pain to recomposite manually
Nov 11 00:00:11 <romainguy> (it would also use precious memory to create a giant bitmap)
Nov 11 00:00:17 <jasta> hmm, i suppose
Nov 11 00:00:44 <romainguy> the best thing to do would simply be to turn of GridView's translucent background
Nov 11 00:00:55 <jasta> i guess my real gripe is that i have to scroll through it all the time.  i so wish i could hide icons i never use :)
Nov 11 00:01:03 <romainguy> put them on your desktop
Nov 11 00:01:05 <romainguy> the ones you use
Nov 11 00:01:08 <jasta> i have my desktop full
Nov 11 00:01:12 <jasta> and i dont like using the left/right ones
Nov 11 00:01:19 <romainguy> then use folders
Nov 11 00:01:30 <jasta> oh yeah, i forgot about that
Nov 11 00:02:12 <jasta> i do have to admit after using the G1, i enjoy the desktop analogy quite a lot
Nov 11 00:02:15 <jasta> especially with AnyCut
Nov 11 00:02:25 <jasta> i thought i'd hate it
Nov 11 00:02:42 <romainguy> that was everybody's reaction at first here
Nov 11 00:02:42 <tomgibara> I very much enjoy the desktop
Nov 11 00:02:43 <jasta> while i'm already swallowing my pride, i _really_ like the notification drawer hehe
Nov 11 00:02:46 <romainguy> and now everybody likes it
Nov 11 00:03:04 <jasta> the feeling of pulling it down is so much more satisfying with your finger instead of a mouse :)
Nov 11 00:03:05 * fadden makes a note on his calendar
Nov 11 00:03:11 <tomgibara> It's interesting how tastes vary, I like the side swiping to the other desktops
Nov 11 00:03:14 <romainguy> jasta: told you
Nov 11 00:03:42 <jasta> romainguy: yes, but it is hard to communicate this without actually holding a device in your hand
Nov 11 00:03:43 <tomgibara> jasta: On a device of course, it's infinitely high
Nov 11 00:03:57 <romainguy> jasta: or your could trust people who tell you it's not that bad :p
Nov 11 00:04:07 <tomgibara> (in analogy with a desktop I mean)
Nov 11 00:04:09 <jasta> i increasingly find working with the emulator to be "second rate".  colors look wrong, the size is not right, etc.
Nov 11 00:04:50 <jasta> when im doing any kind of visual change i dont even bother with the emulator
Nov 11 00:04:51 <languish> What was the method for changing the initializing G-Mail accoount without performaing a master reset on the phone?
Nov 11 00:04:59 <languish> *account
Nov 11 00:05:06 <romainguy> jasta: I stopped using the emulator 6 months ago
Nov 11 00:05:18 <g1er> so a question.. why can't the home swipe work in three or four directions (instead of two)? the apps tab being one of them
Nov 11 00:05:24 <fadden> romainguy: the emulator misses you
Nov 11 00:05:32 <jasta> romainguy: well i still like it for developing/testing unstable changes that are not ready to go onto my phone
Nov 11 00:05:34 <romainguy> fadden: I'm going back to it :))
Nov 11 00:05:44 <romainguy> jasta: you should have two phones like us :p
Nov 11 00:05:44 <jasta> since i use my app every day, it's important that i not introduce regressions :)
Nov 11 00:06:19 <jasta> my commute to work is much improved now :)
Nov 11 00:06:21 <tomgibara> There's no subsitute to living with an app.
Nov 11 00:08:10 <g1er> nevermind, kinda off topic. guess u still need the ability to scroll through apps :/
Nov 11 00:08:31 <jasta> romainguy: i've been looking at VideoView and MediaController a lot lately, looking to change my player UI to fit the Android look and feel a bit better...
Nov 11 00:09:11 <jasta> but there's one thing i'm confused about.  the YouTube app appears to use MovieView from the Music app, except that i can't figure out how it is setting the secondary progress of the MediaController?
Nov 11 00:09:46 <jasta> i thought maybe they extended it, but everything is private, so i'm not sure how this is happening.
Nov 11 00:09:53 <jasta> maybe they are just doing a findViewById?
Nov 11 00:09:56 <romainguy> probably just a findViewById?
Nov 11 00:10:32 <jasta> that was my first tought but it seemed kind of aggressive.
Nov 11 00:11:58 <jasta> oh well
Nov 11 00:12:05 <tomgibara> romainguy: I know you've dismissed this idea once already, but I still think the draggable tab on the application tray should become a wastebin the moment you drag an icon out.
Nov 11 00:12:15 <romainguy> done
Nov 11 00:12:20 <romainguy> and I still hate it
Nov 11 00:12:32 <tomgibara> Do others like it then?
Nov 11 00:12:32 <jasta> i agree with tomgibara.  i've thought this several times while using it
Nov 11 00:12:44 <romainguy> tomgibara: I was told to do it, I did it
Nov 11 00:12:48 <romainguy> but I hate it, I think it's very wrong
Nov 11 00:14:09 <tomgibara> romainguy: do you hate the existing wastebin metaphor (when you're dragging an icon off the desktop)?
Nov 11 00:14:36 <romainguy> no
Nov 11 00:14:48 <romainguy> but when dragging from the all apps I think it conveys the wrong information
Nov 11 00:14:55 <romainguy> because you are *not* removing anything
Nov 11 00:14:58 <romainguy> nor uninstalling
Nov 11 00:15:00 <romainguy> anyway :)
Nov 11 00:15:04 <tomgibara> I see
Nov 11 00:15:08 <jasta> thats a good point
Nov 11 00:15:31 <taaz> you need a cancel icon then
Nov 11 00:15:32 <romainguy> (and no, I don't have another solution even though I agree the drag should be cancellable)
Nov 11 00:15:49 <jasta> why not make it cancelable by just dragging the icon off screen (top or bottom)?
Nov 11 00:15:55 <tomgibara> That was my original suggestion iirc, a cancel icon
Nov 11 00:16:13 <romainguy> I'm not too keen on having too many modes either
Nov 11 00:16:20 <tomgibara> Yeah, I can see that
Nov 11 00:16:47 <romainguy> (and honestly at this point I'd like to forget about Home for a while :))
Nov 11 00:17:14 <tomgibara> Then I'll keep any other comments to myself :)
Nov 11 00:17:19 <romainguy> lol
Nov 11 00:17:23 <jasta> romainguy: i just want to say that i have a much deeper appreciation of how completely awesome Android's UI toolkit is after reading the source and other apps.  my usage thus far has been extremely primitive :)
Nov 11 00:17:23 <romainguy> they're still welcome :))
Nov 11 00:17:26 <romainguy> it's just a wish
Nov 11 00:17:42 <sfuentes> When will there be Google Docs for android?
Nov 11 00:17:57 <sfuentes> i think i saw it on the emulator
Nov 11 00:18:03 <romainguy> jasta: that's actually one of my issues with our toolkit: it's very easy to use but it's quite hard to exploit all its potential
Nov 11 00:18:43 <jasta> romainguy: without the source, or at least a much larger repository of examples, i would have never found half the stuff i've learned in just these past few weeks
Nov 11 00:18:44 <romainguy> but that's expected I guess
Nov 11 00:18:45 <tomgibara> Tricky to make it easier without bloating the framework?
Nov 11 00:18:56 <romainguy> tomgibara: totally
Nov 11 00:19:03 <romainguy> I actually think we went too far on several occasions
Nov 11 00:19:10 <jasta> such as?
Nov 11 00:19:14 <jasta> (just curious)
Nov 11 00:19:20 <romainguy> ListView for instance
Nov 11 00:19:29 <romainguy> I think we should not have allowed items of different heights
Nov 11 00:19:57 <jasta> hmm, i'm not sure that i agree.  genuinely, i'm not sure :)
Nov 11 00:20:04 <jasta> i initially started out exploiting that feature in my app
Nov 11 00:20:11 <romainguy> see it that way
Nov 11 00:20:14 <jasta> and later revised all my items to be the same height because i stated to think it looked better
Nov 11 00:20:17 <romainguy> it makes the codebase much more complicated and complex
Nov 11 00:20:28 <romainguy> and it slows down ListView by quite a lot :)
Nov 11 00:20:28 <jasta> started*
Nov 11 00:20:45 <romainguy> we actually changed GridView to accept only one height for all items
Nov 11 00:20:51 <romainguy> it used to accept various heights
Nov 11 00:20:56 <xavd> romainguy: just add a new "SimpleListView" that's optimized for same height items
Nov 11 00:21:04 <fadden> "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
Nov 11 00:21:21 <romainguy> fadden: I would never dare say ListView is perfect :p
Nov 11 00:21:26 <tomgibara> On that note, I've never seen the use of ListActivity
Nov 11 00:21:28 <romainguy> xavd: read the code then you'll see why we can't do it :))
Nov 11 00:21:43 <romainguy> tomgibara: confuse beginners to make them think it's the only way to use ListView :)
Nov 11 00:21:53 <romainguy> (I have my griefs against ListActivity :))
Nov 11 00:21:55 <tomgibara> I think it's certainly done that :)
Nov 11 00:22:13 <romainguy> the AnalogClock should also NOT be a widget, imo
Nov 11 00:22:24 <romainguy> at least not a widget in the core framework
Nov 11 00:22:39 <jasta> i agree with you there
Nov 11 00:22:49 <jasta> and for the love of god it shouldnt be part of the default home configuration.
Nov 11 00:23:32 <fadden> But how would you know what time it is?
Nov 11 00:23:37 <fadden> Look at the digital clock?  pshaw
Nov 11 00:23:38 <romainguy> ^^
Nov 11 00:23:45 <jasta> romainguy: now that i think about it, i do utilize variable height list items in my UI still, and i'm glad to have the option for those cases.  i use it to display track listing in an album, so that long tracks don't cut off.
Nov 11 00:24:27 <romainguy> the problem is not good use cases like thisone
Nov 11 00:24:31 <romainguy> it's when it gets abused
Nov 11 00:24:38 <romainguy> like a ListView of WebViews
Nov 11 00:24:50 <romainguy> or a Gallery inside a ListView inside a ScrollView :p
Nov 11 00:24:59 <tomgibara> lol
Nov 11 00:25:03 <romainguy> the less the UI toolkit lets you do, the less likely you are to pull this off :p
Nov 11 00:25:53 <jasta> romainguy: that's a losing strategy in general from the frameworks perspective though.  no matter what you do, people will misunderstand and misuse it.
Nov 11 00:26:08 <romainguy> I know
Nov 11 00:27:33 <jasta> this is where its the job of good documentation.  be subtle: things you dont want users to do should be documented in a very thorough, sophisticated way.  everything else should be phrased for consumption by the masses :)
Nov 11 00:28:13 * romainguy prepares a patch for ListView.java:
Nov 11 00:28:15 <romainguy> /**
Nov 11 00:28:18 <romainguy>  * BACK OFF!
Nov 11 00:28:20 <romainguy>  */
Nov 11 00:28:24 <jasta> hehe
Nov 11 00:28:26 <romainguy> public class ListView { ...
Nov 11 00:28:46 <romainguy> (sorry, fighting with TextView right now, makes my head hurt)
Nov 11 00:28:52 <jasta> make it like a game.  pepper the source with comments like /* Oh, you think you understand how this works?  You fool! o/~
Nov 11 00:29:48 <romainguy> no, that's what checkin comments are for :)
Nov 11 00:29:50 <tomgibara> Those two widgets are so powerful, iit's probably possible to produce almost any application using only ListViews and TextViews
Nov 11 00:30:00 <romainguy> tomgibara: pretty much :)
Nov 11 00:30:10 <romainguy> (and we already added new features for post 1.0)
Nov 11 00:31:14 <jasta> so, i was shopping around for a new stereo this weekend
Nov 11 00:31:36 <jasta> and i saw a lot of stereos now come with USB iPod connectivity that lets you control it from your deck
Nov 11 00:31:54 <umdk1d3> ooh speaking of which, ive been meaning to dig into the "new" textview
Nov 11 00:32:05 <umdk1d3> that "rolls" text when its too large, similar to the desktop icons
Nov 11 00:32:07 <jasta> does anyone know about how that is achieved?  that would be so awesome to reverse engineer and add to Android
Nov 11 00:32:21 <umdk1d3> i also saw it automatically happening in preferences, so i assume it might automagically happen
Nov 11 00:32:32 <umdk1d3> *no flag to enable/disable it for a specific textview
Nov 11 00:32:40 <jasta> umdk1d3: you mean adds the ellipsis?  it's just an attribute, ellipsize or something
Nov 11 00:33:07 <umdk1d3> jasta: with the new rc, it can roll the text with a left-to-right animation
Nov 11 00:33:13 <umdk1d3> as an alternative to ellipsis
Nov 11 00:33:14 <jasta> oh really?
Nov 11 00:33:26 <umdk1d3> it seems to just happen magically
Nov 11 00:33:46 <umdk1d3> maybe if you force singleLine and no ellipse flags set
Nov 11 00:33:52 <umdk1d3> i havent dug into it yet
Nov 11 00:34:00 <romainguy> nope
Nov 11 00:34:06 <romainguy> it's ellipsis="marquee"
Nov 11 00:34:16 <umdk1d3> ah cool  :)
Nov 11 00:34:19 <romainguy> I'm debugging this as we speak
Nov 11 00:34:30 <romainguy> some nasty bugs that I left in there
Nov 11 00:35:12 <tomgibara> umdk1d3: The way you've described it, it sounds a bit naff, but I won't judge it based on that description
Nov 11 00:35:25 <tomgibara> I have a minor allergy to moving text.
Nov 11 00:35:35 <umdk1d3> it has a start delay
Nov 11 00:35:45 <umdk1d3> and only is triggered on selection
Nov 11 00:35:47 <romainguy> tomgibara: we had to do this for localization
Nov 11 00:35:58 <romainguy> (and long app names on Home)
Nov 11 00:36:05 <tomgibara> ah, makes sense
Nov 11 00:36:09 <romainguy> and also it makes total sense in a music player too :)
Nov 11 00:37:54 <tomgibara> So, sounds like Germany are getting the G1 next then.
Nov 11 00:37:54 <jasta> yeah that would be nice to add :)
Nov 11 00:40:15 <tomgibara> One problem w/ scrolling text like that is that it forces the cpu to do work when the app is otherwise passive.
Nov 11 00:40:24 <romainguy> sure
Nov 11 00:40:30 <romainguy> but it's only on selected elements
Nov 11 00:41:03 <tomgibara> Yes I see that, I'm just thinking of our previous discussion: what use are other developers going to put it to?
Nov 11 00:41:26 <romainguy> well if you're doing a music player... :))
Nov 11 01:20:35 <aquarist_2006> how to add the opencore (packet video) in android emulator source tree
Nov 11 01:23:54 <aquarist_2006> anybody has experience  to build the packet video shared library from android source tree ?
Nov 11 01:24:19 <ttuttle> aquarist_2006: no need to repeat yourself.
Nov 11 01:24:30 <ttuttle> aquarist_2006: if someone knows, they will answer.
Nov 11 01:31:11 <sfuentes> google docs is available on g1, right?
Nov 11 01:41:02 <ttuttle> sfuentes: x is available on g1, for all x, if x is web-based and does not require flash or java.
Nov 11 01:42:03 <sfuentes> ttuttle: yeah i was just wondering if there was an app for it like the gmail app
Nov 11 01:42:18 <ttuttle> sfuentes: No.  I wish there was, along with a PDF reader.
Nov 11 01:42:54 <sfuentes> that would be nice
Nov 11 01:53:25 <spikebike> fell you still there
Nov 11 01:53:41 <spikebike> oops
Nov 11 02:00:06 <spikebike> sfuentes: actually I'd give the googledocs a fail
Nov 11 02:00:08 <spikebike> (on the g1)
Nov 11 02:00:11 <Quantumplation> Hello.  Just recently got the G1.  I have an SMS thread that's nearing 500 texts, and it's beginning to lag the phone.  I was looking around the file structure for the location of the texts, yet couldn't find it... Anyone have an idea as to where i can find this, so i can back this thread up?
Nov 11 02:02:17 <spikebike> hmm
Nov 11 02:02:23 <spikebike> dunno, do you have root?
Nov 11 02:03:00 <spikebike> I believe it's in sql store
Nov 11 02:04:17 <Quantumplation> how would i get root? the telnetd thing that was working the other day isn't now
Nov 11 02:04:29 <spikebike> what release is your phone running?
Nov 11 02:05:15 <Quantumplation> firmware 1.0, baseband 62.33, kernel 2.6.25, buiild RC30
Nov 11 02:05:32 <spikebike> and that's the standard RC30 from tmobile?
Nov 11 02:05:40 <Quantumplation> I would assume so
Nov 11 02:05:47 <languish> Quantumplation, RC30, no root
Nov 11 02:05:52 <spikebike> ya
Nov 11 02:05:54 <Quantumplation> =(
Nov 11 02:06:00 <languish> You'll have to wait for the next exploit
Nov 11 02:06:23 <Quantumplation> alright, so i'll need to bust out a compiler to write a backup program?
Nov 11 02:07:07 <sfuentes> spikebike: a fail?
Nov 11 02:07:25 <spikebike> yeah, useless
Nov 11 02:07:30 <spikebike> can't edit or view
Nov 11 02:07:57 <sfuentes> greeattt.... :(
Nov 11 02:09:28 <Quantumplation> Anyone heard of a program to backup text messages yet?
Nov 11 02:09:44 <languish> nope..
Nov 11 02:09:58 <SplasPood> i think the trick is to start holding your breath
Nov 11 02:11:25 <spikebike> sfuentes: I'm optimistic that will be fixed, maybe even in rc30, there is a decent size web update
Nov 11 02:11:47 <spikebike> but right now I can't edit my spreadsheets, or see past the 4th column or so (scroll bar or not)
Nov 11 02:13:11 <sfuentes> spikebike: so ur rc29?
Nov 11 02:14:00 <spikebike> ya, going to do a hacked RC30 tonight, if it goes well I'll do a second phone
Nov 11 02:14:40 <sfuentes> cool. i'll wait and see how it works out for you tomorrow.
Nov 11 02:14:42 <spikebike> are there any other SMS chat programs ont he market?
Nov 11 02:14:52 <michaelnovakjr_> spikebike: don't think so....
Nov 11 02:14:56 <spikebike> I'm optimistic, seems like a fair number of others are pretty happy
Nov 11 02:15:00 <michaelnovakjr_> spikebike: i wrote one for the vogue
Nov 11 02:15:05 <michaelnovakjr_> but that was on m5
Nov 11 02:15:09 <michaelnovakjr_> and not ported
Nov 11 02:15:12 <spikebike> ah
Nov 11 02:15:21 <spikebike> so are the messages in the sql store?
Nov 11 02:15:36 <spikebike> is there a specific priv for accessing sms discussions?
Nov 11 02:15:42 <michaelnovakjr_> mine were yes, but i don't know about the standard one
Nov 11 02:15:43 <spikebike> any program with it could slurp the history?
Nov 11 02:16:17 <michaelnovakjr_> i think there's some permissions for sms
Nov 11 02:16:30 <spikebike> I wonder if sending is different than log reading
Nov 11 02:16:41 <spikebike> thankfully I pretty much completely avoid SMS
Nov 11 02:16:55 <spikebike> if need by I use a gateway to avoid SMS
Nov 11 02:17:09 <spikebike> or get people to move to gtalk ;-)
Nov 11 02:20:26 <sfuentes> that reminds me, is there an advantage in using sms instead of gtalk?
Nov 11 02:20:38 <spikebike> not that I know of
Nov 11 02:20:42 <spikebike> except the priv to pay for it
Nov 11 02:21:07 <sfuentes> i thought both are part of unlimited data
Nov 11 02:21:13 <spikebike> nope
Nov 11 02:21:22 <spikebike> $25 = unlimited data and 400 sms
Nov 11 02:21:31 <sfuentes> lol crap
Nov 11 02:21:37 <spikebike> $35 = unlimited both
Nov 11 02:21:42 <Quantumplation> ... hrm
Nov 11 02:21:52 <spikebike> so for $10 I avoid SMS like the plague
Nov 11 02:22:07 <spikebike> after 2 years I figure $240 will buy a new android phone
Nov 11 02:22:08 <Quantumplation> i had unlimited texting on my plan before the G1, and i upgraded to the G1 i wonder if i have unlimited texting still >_<
Nov 11 02:22:21 <ttuttle> spikebike++
Nov 11 02:22:24 <ttuttle> SMS is for losers.
Nov 11 02:22:53 <spikebike> yeah, next step is to find out how to programmatically send/receive sms messages on the g1
Nov 11 02:23:03 <spikebike> (I already have that working elsewhere)
Nov 11 02:24:20 <john5000> hello group
Nov 11 02:25:11 <languish> Hellooooo Miiiister john5000
Nov 11 02:25:41 <john5000> quick question, I'm a few days away from getting my G1.... and I'm wondering what are the best sites for the latest info on hacks, tips, and tricks, etc... ?
Nov 11 02:26:00 <Disconnect> xda-dev and android community
Nov 11 02:26:31 <Disconnect> and if you ever want to hack it (or if you just want to keep your options open) do not let it do an update
Nov 11 02:26:44 <Disconnect> need to hack it first (then update the patched version)
Nov 11 02:26:55 <Quantumplation> >_< i wish i could have stopped mine from updating
Nov 11 02:27:34 <languish> xda-developers.com android-dls.com/wiki androidcommunity.com andev.org forums.t-mobile.com
Nov 11 02:27:47 <languish> and the tmonews.com forums
Nov 11 02:27:55 <john5000> how do you keep it from updating ? is there one good page on all this?
Nov 11 02:28:13 <languish> hacking section on android-dls.com/wiki
Nov 11 02:28:14 <Disconnect> just say 'no' but you have to hack it or eventually it'll just update anyway
Nov 11 02:28:20 <languish> front page, scroll down
Nov 11 02:28:30 <Leeds> andev.org is a parked domain...
Nov 11 02:28:37 <john5000> thanks
Nov 11 02:28:38 <languish> two d's
Nov 11 02:28:41 <languish> sorry
Nov 11 02:28:49 <languish> anddev.org
Nov 11 02:29:39 <Leeds> ah, that works :-)
Nov 11 02:29:43 <languish> :)
Nov 11 02:30:30 <Leeds> looks like a nice site as well...
Nov 11 02:31:39 <sfuentes> spikebike: so will u be making an sms android app?
Nov 11 02:32:57 <alansj> wow, iptables tethering is fantastic... connected to irc over tether right now
Nov 11 02:37:48 <michaelnovakjr_> sfuentes: feel free to port mine to 1.0 :)
Nov 11 02:37:59 <michaelnovakjr_> http://code.google.com/p/android-random
Nov 11 02:42:39 * ahaberlacho yawns.
Nov 11 02:43:19 <sfuentes> interesting... bbl
Nov 11 02:43:26 <ttuttle> ahaberlacho: hey
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 11 02:59:57 2008