**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 11 02:59:57 2008 Nov 11 03:05:59 I got an update for G1 today, can anybody tell me what it does now? Nov 11 03:06:05 I think I'm now not allowed to have root access? Nov 11 03:06:16 but then again... I dont think I ever needed that Nov 11 03:06:35 Hiro2, RC30? Nov 11 03:06:57 I think so Nov 11 03:07:01 I mean, yes it is Nov 11 03:07:06 sux2bu Nov 11 03:07:39 whats new? Nov 11 03:07:40 tethering? nope. vpn? nope. backups? nope. screenshots? nope... Nov 11 03:07:42 some people don't need root Nov 11 03:07:44 or what is the update? Nov 11 03:08:14 Hiro2, they fixed the root hole, as well as you can reboot your servers now with consolebot without rebooting your G1 Nov 11 03:08:19 it breaks root and it claims to do battery patches Nov 11 03:08:41 Pre RC30 allowed you to reboot the G1 by typing 'reboot' on the keyboard Nov 11 03:08:42 or there's the jf rc30 that keeps root and does the same platform/app patches Nov 11 03:10:03 Disconnect: Not sure why you say it claims to do battery patches, the content of RC30 has been widely advertised Nov 11 03:10:20 First google hit: "Google Android RC30 Update: Fixes G1 phone jailbreak" http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/11/07/google-android-rc30-update-fixes-g1-phone-jailbreak/ Nov 11 03:11:14 they also updated a ton of apps and some platform stuff. i'm looking for the list now but at one point htey were pushing it as a security+battery fix. (possibly just to get people installing it) Nov 11 03:11:50 FWIW, most people don't have a choice, they have to install it :) Nov 11 03:12:06 anybody here have android running on the neo freerunner? Nov 11 03:12:38 some posts in tmo-forums and similar saying its got battery patches. not finding an original source tho. Nov 11 03:12:50 cbeust: no, i got a request for update and it says update now or update later Nov 11 03:13:03 but it popped up everytime i went onto G1 Nov 11 03:13:06 so it's very anoying Nov 11 03:13:14 Hiro2: Notice how it doesn't tell you "don't install"? :) Nov 11 03:13:31 true Nov 11 03:13:36 even jf's ver is listed as battery also Nov 11 03:13:53 btw is it a known bug? contacts on fav 5 doesn't show in general contacts Nov 11 03:13:59 hiro2: you will be assimilated Nov 11 03:14:44 Fav 5 has nothing to do with contacts Nov 11 03:14:48 Contacts = Google Contacts Nov 11 03:14:53 Fav 5 is stored on infospace Nov 11 03:14:58 completely different items Nov 11 03:19:09 cbeust: so thats all the source you have? just cuz it does the jailbreak fix doesn't mean it doesn't do something else. (btw, the jailbreak fix is handled in the patch script and recovery.img - not the ton of app patches that come along with it) Nov 11 03:19:35 Damm: I think the new update fixed that issue Nov 11 03:20:18 Hiro2, why would/should it? Nov 11 03:20:27 it's like reading your sim card for contacts Nov 11 03:22:17 g1 read my sim card fine Nov 11 03:28:14 there any phone app developers in the room? Nov 11 03:28:49 that may have done dev on non-android phones too? Nov 11 03:31:10 what is your question? Nov 11 03:31:53 damm: I don't know, but when I first transferred my contacts from the Sim, they didnt show up on contacts and only on fav 5 Nov 11 03:34:36 question is.... if you were a company trying to develop one app for several platforms.... whats the best choice? Web? or is there anything to bridge the differences in the platforms? Nov 11 03:36:07 i heard there was some software that allowed you to write once and it then generates code in brew, j2me, iphone, android Nov 11 03:36:28 i don't recall the name though Nov 11 03:37:10 DUke Nukem Forever? Nov 11 03:37:13 thats what I was looking for.... or at least an idea of what approach they were using it Nov 11 03:37:42 Don't know a thing about BREW myself Nov 11 03:37:52 cbeust: do you know? Nov 11 03:38:00 That was a joke, sorry Nov 11 03:38:12 it was slightly funny Nov 11 03:38:20 There are a few libraries that help porting, but nothing as automated as what you are describing Nov 11 03:38:51 any names of libraries you can think of? i can research the rest Nov 11 03:39:07 writing for the multitude of phone platforms is an extreme pain, in the beginning, you may just want to choose one platform and ask your customers to use that one phone Nov 11 03:39:08 No sorry Nov 11 03:39:45 john5000, what does your phone app do? Nov 11 03:39:56 roughly speaking Nov 11 03:40:23 oh sorry... I should explain Nov 11 03:41:27 I'm doing the first part of a presentation about the G1 at a User Group meeting Wednesday night.... and I was supposed to get my G1 last week.... which I did ... but it was damaged. Nov 11 03:42:08 so basically - I'm flying blind Nov 11 03:42:21 Use the emulator Nov 11 03:42:23 and you need to demo writing an app for the g1? Nov 11 03:42:30 trying to think of topics to fill about 10 more minutes Nov 11 03:42:45 I'm doing these topics so far Nov 11 03:42:55 Hardware Nov 11 03:43:40 Software - apps, integration, amazon mp3 app Nov 11 03:43:43 do something like this Nov 11 03:43:47 http://www.devx.com/wireless/Article/39239 Nov 11 03:44:31 quickly walk them through that tutorial Nov 11 03:44:41 file format support - which by the way, is the wikipedia article correct about the video file format support Nov 11 03:45:26 covering rooting, busybox, preventing ota, boot modifiers Nov 11 03:46:10 i learned a new word today Nov 11 03:46:13 horripilation Nov 11 03:46:15 actually the dev piece I'm letting a stronger Java dev tackle that Nov 11 03:46:26 the act or process of the hair bristling on the skin, as from cold or fear; goose flesh Nov 11 03:46:51 horripilation Nov 11 03:47:14 good word Nov 11 03:47:14 * languish hirripilations u Nov 11 03:47:18 neekers: strangely enough, I saw it and thought you were talking about compiling horrible code Nov 11 03:47:24 http://code.google.com/p/android-bluebox/ Nov 11 03:47:33 The verb is actually to horripilate Nov 11 03:47:35 heh Nov 11 03:47:48 a toy app that I made to amuse some old phone phreak buddies of mine Nov 11 03:48:23 horrible compilation Nov 11 03:48:36 horripilate - don't let your mother catch you Nov 11 03:49:50 well, i need to go out to my barn and continue putting in the toilet Nov 11 03:58:24 any one have thoughts on what the coolest apps from the market are? Nov 11 04:00:23 Translate, without a doubt ;) Nov 11 04:00:29 for the work I do, connectbot is the most awesome Nov 11 04:00:32 balls to the wall! Nov 11 04:00:47 I ride the bus to and from work, and connectbot lets me work on the bus Nov 11 04:00:52 It's not called that any more, Romain Nov 11 04:01:10 to me it will always be ballz to the wall Nov 11 04:01:13 romainguy__: ? Nov 11 04:01:23 He means Divide and Conquer Nov 11 04:01:38 * unix_infidel just had a sudden urge to watch spaceballs. Nov 11 04:01:51 they've gone to plaid! Nov 11 04:02:24 must...fight...urge...to...waste...time... Nov 11 04:02:46 * unix_infidel gets a couple cups of yougurt ;-) Nov 11 04:02:46 spaceballs the flamethrower! (the kids love this one!) Nov 11 04:02:47 You are saying this while in an irc channel. Nov 11 04:03:00 unix_infidel: I know you... Nov 11 04:03:05 cbeust, well played Nov 11 04:03:10 cbeust: yes, but so are you...and you your time is much more valuable. Nov 11 04:03:32 I never claimed I was fighting the urge to waste time. Nov 11 04:03:40 ;-) Nov 11 04:03:40 I'm kinda embracing it actually Nov 11 04:04:26 okay... so let me ask - and feel free to answer in pm... I'm sure there's one or two people here with a G1... I'm about to go and buy one - anyone got any comments, reasons why I shouldn't? Nov 11 04:04:48 Leeds, I'm told the battery is pretty crappy Nov 11 04:04:51 if you can't live without being root Nov 11 04:04:52 Yes. Because it's too awesome. Nov 11 04:04:52 Depends, do you have freedom and can't stand awesome software? Nov 11 04:04:54 Leeds: It's useful... TOO useful... Nov 11 04:04:56 s/have/hate Nov 11 04:05:00 though I do development so it's always plugged in for me Nov 11 04:05:24 I seriously can't stop messing with it in class, when I should be paying attention and taking notes. Nov 11 04:05:24 I do like me a bit of freedom... I'll be using it on EDGE rather than 3G so hopefully that'll make the battery usable Nov 11 04:05:46 You mean you don't have 3G where you are? Nov 11 04:05:47 Leeds, I'm on EDGE and I have no complaints Nov 11 04:05:50 Leeds: going to be 150 in about two weeks if you can wait. Nov 11 04:05:53 It lasts fine if you don't use the web browser too much. :/ Nov 11 04:05:54 cbeust, I don't :-/ Nov 11 04:06:05 unix_infidel: not here in Hong Kong it isn't Nov 11 04:06:16 I started using mobile sites instead. They load faster anyways. Nov 11 04:06:26 Leeds: oh yes...I forgot. Nov 11 04:06:27 I mean I have an existing cheap unmetered EDGE account which I intend to keep using Nov 11 04:06:28 the browser needs adblock+ Nov 11 04:07:56 I can always move over to a 3G account later if I feel the need... but in the meantime, there's lots of wifi here, and I'm only paying about US$12 a month for unlimited EDGE and wifi Nov 11 04:10:25 so battery and lack of adblock are the only complaints? thanks folks Nov 11 04:12:13 I'm unsure of how tough the screen is Nov 11 04:12:20 I'm waiting to see some reports on that Nov 11 04:12:36 I have yet to scratch one after 18 months Nov 11 04:12:45 I'm not too worried about my iPod touch since I know that screen is tough as nails, but I haven't seen any reports on the G1 Nov 11 04:13:08 romainguy__, have you kept it in your pocket with keys for a day? stuff like that Nov 11 04:13:17 yeah Nov 11 04:13:20 I've been roughing mine quite a bit over 18 months too and even with the earlier versions of the screen, I never saw a single scratch Nov 11 04:13:25 and dropped it tons of tims on concrete :) Nov 11 04:13:35 18 WHAT? Nov 11 04:13:36 I've been carrying mine in my backpack pocket with a lot of crap Nov 11 04:13:38 I even try to actively scratch the screen with my keys Nov 11 04:13:39 didn't work Nov 11 04:13:44 Leeds: months Nov 11 04:13:46 iphone i have seen 2 broken screens Nov 11 04:13:55 Leeds: they're with Google :-P Nov 11 04:14:00 it's glass right? while i think the g1 screen is plastic Nov 11 04:14:01 romainguy__, interesting. Well that makes me feel better Nov 11 04:14:02 ah, more of them :-) Nov 11 04:14:26 the ipod touch/iphone screen is extremely hard glass Nov 11 04:14:49 i dont think anyone will go out and say that the G1 is of the same "quality" as the iPhone hardware. Nov 11 04:15:12 yeah, though it definitely doesn't feel cheap like some people say Nov 11 04:15:15 unix_infidel: I dunno, the iphone feels like a toy and the G1 feels like sturdy Nov 11 04:15:35 that being said, the iTouch and iPhone are of similar quality and what seperates them is some internals. Nov 11 04:15:37 it feels solid, though I wonder if that screen hinge will get floppy over time Nov 11 04:15:53 KNY: it doesn't :) Nov 11 04:15:55 KNY: we have tested this hinge very extensively Nov 11 04:15:58 no worries there Nov 11 04:16:06 and I have the bad habit of opening/closing hundreds of times a day ^^ Nov 11 04:16:09 that is one complaint I have Nov 11 04:16:16 (sometimes I wonder when cbeust will kill me when I do that) Nov 11 04:16:18 romainguy__: heh, until IMF that is :-) Nov 11 04:16:19 have to be careful popping it open too quick or it'll jump out of your hands Nov 11 04:16:40 ismarc: yeah I have killed a few squirrles this way Nov 11 04:16:42 ismarc: seriously? how do you do that? Nov 11 04:16:54 how much stress can the hinge take when it's open? if you dropped it while open onto the corner, would it likely snap off? Nov 11 04:17:37 romainguy: I've got big stubby fingers, so if I turn it sideways and give a push with my thumbs on the screen until it starts moving on its own, it kicks when it stops Nov 11 04:17:51 (how's that for a new SI unit? "drops"..) Nov 11 04:19:21 I don't know if you guys can say exactly, but what's the purpose of the "chin" being angled out? Nov 11 04:19:38 has google released any more widgets yet? Nov 11 04:19:40 maybe as a handle for when typing? Nov 11 04:20:07 jasta, do you hold onto it when you type? I don't. Nov 11 04:20:26 well, i kinda do Nov 11 04:20:30 i wedge it into my right hand Nov 11 04:20:46 yeah, but it seems like that would work without it being angled Nov 11 04:20:49 one handed? Nov 11 04:21:00 yeah it does seem like that Nov 11 04:21:06 KNY: i honestly don't know though :) Nov 11 04:21:08 my theory is that it protects the trackball and screen Nov 11 04:21:17 yes possibly Nov 11 04:21:19 it being angled makes it easy to hold onto when using 1 hand to operate the trackball Nov 11 04:22:36 oh Leeds, one more negative: there are too many ringtones Nov 11 04:22:44 "too many"? Nov 11 04:22:46 it takes forever to pick one ;) Nov 11 04:22:47 i think thats a positive Nov 11 04:22:59 i just went to my all time favorite, best ever ring tone: Born Slippy :) Nov 11 04:23:00 not when you're trying to pick one at work Nov 11 04:23:39 http://www.thetones360.com/browse/underworld/born-slippy.nuxx/ :) Nov 11 04:24:08 sodenrox: has google released any more widgets yet? << no :) Nov 11 04:24:08 oh, and there isn't a "vibrate for a minute then ring" Nov 11 04:24:22 * romainguy__ is regretting widgets :)) Nov 11 04:24:49 jasta: dog boy dog boy Nov 11 04:25:57 romainguy__: can you guys load dex files at runtime yet? third party widgets could get interesting Nov 11 04:26:15 the widgets that are included now are, meh. only the pciture frame one is worth anything Nov 11 04:26:29 runtime dex loading is not what we need for widgets Nov 11 04:26:34 jasta: Are you trying to piss Romain off? Nov 11 04:26:35 is this on the ef network? Nov 11 04:26:52 sodenrox, freenode Nov 11 04:26:52 gottab Nov 11 04:26:53 cbeust: no, if i were doing that i'd blab about how much i like the clock Nov 11 04:27:07 first thing I removed :) Nov 11 04:27:15 romainguy__: no? what is needed? Nov 11 04:27:42 jasta: the ability to display views across processes Nov 11 04:27:50 Home has a bunch of permissions Nov 11 04:28:00 I certainly don't want random code to run with these permissions Nov 11 04:28:02 oh, yeah. i guess that does complicate it Nov 11 04:28:16 anyway, for the next big update I have something almost ready that could be used to create simple widgets Nov 11 04:28:18 mmm, that is a difficult problem to solve :) Nov 11 04:28:25 yes :) Nov 11 04:28:50 i was talking to San a month or so ago about the Binder system and it does seem that it is efficient enough to do something like that Nov 11 04:28:55 yes Nov 11 04:29:05 we have a couple of engineers who know what to do and how to do it Nov 11 04:29:14 it's just a lot of work that we don't have time for right now Nov 11 04:29:15 the binder, as he explained, is sophisticated enough to simply map shared buffers into two processes so they can communicate through them. Nov 11 04:30:00 so the only extra overhead compared to a thread is that they need to check that data received from the other process structurally makes sense Nov 11 04:31:46 yeah Nov 11 04:32:05 but like I said, I think I have something that would make simple widgets (as in "no custom drawing") feasible Nov 11 04:32:31 hopefully that'll be enough for people to wait for the real thing Nov 11 04:32:42 what is kicking tonight droidheads? Nov 11 04:33:01 Nothing, watching the game, having a Bud Nov 11 04:33:03 my hatred of Exchange grows daily Nov 11 04:33:06 true Nov 11 04:33:16 romainguy__: just using RemoteView or something? Nov 11 04:33:42 ismarc: did someone ever put out a fully functional exchange client? Nov 11 04:33:49 using RemoteView but with more features Nov 11 04:34:01 unix_infidel: that's what I'm working on Nov 11 04:34:49 you can see what I've got so far in a painfully slow, random ordered emails, lots of unnecessary configuration options in the exchange branch of k9mail Nov 11 04:35:32 I'm convinced that exchange tries to guess what order you want emails in, then shuffles them around Nov 11 04:35:50 no method I've found, including using different order by statements returns them in any logical order Nov 11 04:35:54 romainguy__: a use case that i think is very compelling would be a media player controller Nov 11 04:36:02 yes Nov 11 04:36:05 I wanted to write one for 1.0 Nov 11 04:36:07 didn't have the time Nov 11 04:37:31 romainguy__, how do I find out what codecs are supported in VideoView Nov 11 04:37:45 gambler: look at external/opencore :) Nov 11 04:38:10 ah good :) Nov 11 04:40:25 romainguy__: would this be something possible with your "simple" view system? Nov 11 04:40:55 would be cool if i could create a special one which included extra information particular to five, for example. Nov 11 04:43:26 nice.. repo has an 'abandon' command Nov 11 04:43:39 now you can switch branches with ease Nov 11 04:48:04 If I buy a G1 tomorrow from a TMO store, will it likely have rc30 on it? I'd like to be able to do this before RC30 gets on my phone: http://tinyurl.com/5yfeks Nov 11 04:49:02 savid, I'd be surprised if the in-store units have rc30 Nov 11 04:49:10 cool Nov 11 04:49:53 ---and asking people to input "*rm-RF" in thair phone for their own personal amusement Nov 11 04:49:57 God, does that actually work? Nov 11 04:50:01 haha Nov 11 04:50:38 yeah, from what I hear... every kb input goes straigh to a root terminal Nov 11 04:50:51 "Alt" isn't mapped so you can't type / or * Nov 11 04:50:51 No doubt stores are still selling items boxed weeks ago. We won't see anything but RC19 on new phones until another production batch is run, if then. Nov 11 04:50:53 but I guess rc30 fixes that Nov 11 04:51:31 um, mine NIB from today had RC28 on it :/ Nov 11 04:51:42 yeah, rc30 definitely closed that hole Nov 11 04:51:51 g1er, yeah, mine came with rc28 Nov 11 04:52:00 Is RC28 a UK thing? US went 19->29->30 Nov 11 04:52:29 28 for only a day or so then 29 Nov 11 04:52:42 savid: was that a debugging aid mistakenly left in or what? Nov 11 04:52:53 andyross, I'm in the US Nov 11 04:53:05 same here Nov 11 04:53:11 mine arrived with RC28, just got the RC30 OTA this morning Nov 11 04:53:15 had the phone about a week Nov 11 04:53:32 No idea then. Mine was definitely 19, and updated to 29 with no intermediate. Maybe there were two production runs. Nov 11 04:53:44 tweakt_, that's the word on the street Nov 11 04:54:02 Still have RC19 here Nov 11 04:54:49 what I heard was someone was typing an email to a friend with the word "reboot" in it... instantly rebooted the phone XD Nov 11 04:55:21 That's what was in the original bug report, although I'm pretty sure reports of the exploit were public before the bug was filed. Not sure. Nov 11 04:55:46 what date was the original bug report? Nov 11 04:55:54 I forget. Anyone have a link? Nov 11 04:56:00 yup, still happens on my phone too ;-) Nov 11 04:56:02 ah nvm i can't get to my logs, that host is down Nov 11 04:56:05 lol Nov 11 04:56:18 reboot is very fast, wow Nov 11 04:56:24 reported as a connectbot bug on oct31 --> http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/issues/detail?id=64&can=1&q=reboot Nov 11 04:56:35 tweakt_: you really want to get the rooted R30 on that before you get upgraded. Nov 11 04:57:00 romainguy__: hehe, did you do this: http://www.progx.org/users/Gfx/alphacomposites.png ? Nov 11 04:57:05 hey -- anyway for SIM card to hold more than 250 numbers ??? Nov 11 04:57:16 iw as just googling around looking at PorterDuff stuff trying to tweak these reflection pool colors again Nov 11 04:57:56 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1207 Nov 11 04:58:10 there's the "official" bug, though it's a week later Nov 11 04:58:39 I'm reasonably sure that the MSM7k chip in the G1 should support USB host - since many other HTC phones that have the same chip support it - any word on why support for it isn't in the kernel yet? Nov 11 05:00:59 having usb host would be awesome Nov 11 05:01:12 but tough to get data up to user-level apps Nov 11 05:01:39 Not that tough. Port libusb, etc... Nov 11 05:01:41 DO IT NOW!!! Nov 11 05:01:44 * Android-DLs hides Nov 11 05:02:15 andyross: but creating a bridge over into the java apps wouldnt be entirely solved by libusb Nov 11 05:02:48 might be solved with providing some sort of HAL over into the sdk Nov 11 05:02:57 would also help with doing bluetooth dev work Nov 11 05:03:34 The technical issue of getting the data to the apps is irrelevant if the kernel driver doesn't implement the feature - Nov 11 05:03:50 very true Nov 11 05:04:06 but both problems could be solved nicely at the same time Nov 11 05:04:10 Yes Nov 11 05:05:18 Compiling USB host into the kernel is easy - but the number of uses for usb host is enormous - not the least of which would be to use usb storage devices, usb network devices, usb HID devices, usb webcams, usb audio, usb fans, usb missile launchers... etc Nov 11 05:05:40 sadly the drivers would be a pain Nov 11 05:05:49 all of those have functional drivers in the kernel Nov 11 05:05:55 so that part is already solved Nov 11 05:06:05 even with a libusb bridge into userspace and java, you might have to write the driver in java Nov 11 05:06:32 you kinda dont want to be injecting kernel modules, to keep security locked down Nov 11 05:07:33 I wasn't really thinking of addressing the solution in the java level - but just addressing it at the hardware level and letting it bubble up to the java level... The keyboard drivers aren't written in java, are they? Nov 11 05:07:43 the networking drivers most certainly aren't either Nov 11 05:08:00 right, but the keyboard drivers are trusted Nov 11 05:08:32 I am assuming that the mainline kernel source is trusted? Nov 11 05:08:45 I want a usb-serial adapter support for using my phone as a terminal to access a the serial console port ;-) Nov 11 05:08:46 true, but that stuff prolly isnt compiled in Nov 11 05:09:06 i guess i was aproaching it from an end-user point of view Nov 11 05:09:29 for joe anyuser to plug in his devices without having to recompile/reflash kernel Nov 11 05:09:34 Right - but I think a certain subset could be compiled in - like HID support for keyboards and maybe mass-storage support to connect a big fatty hard-drive Nov 11 05:09:46 oh very true Nov 11 05:09:47 Just the few big ones - and then not support others... Nov 11 05:10:23 mass storage would be a big one-- at the kernel level does it separate the server/client mass storage libs? or are they both tied together Nov 11 05:10:26 I'd be using a USB keyboard on my phone right now if the driver fully supported it :) Nov 11 05:10:54 I'm not a kernel expert - but there is an option in the config to turn on "usb host" stuff - and under there, there are some different things you can turn on or off Nov 11 05:11:00 * umdk1d3 peeks Nov 11 05:11:53 The hard part is that I don't know if anyone in the outside community will be able to get the information necessary to enable the USB host - since Qualcomm doesn't even seem to have any data sheets out - let alone technical information on this stuff Nov 11 05:12:33 ouch :/ Nov 11 05:13:02 I think the XDA people have gotten drivers working in WM for some HTC devices - so maybe we can poke them to get us the info we need to do it Nov 11 05:13:36 Some of the WM devices that support it require a funky hybrid USB cable that provides power in order for it to be in USB host mode - and the only place it is enabled (by default) is in the bootloader (of all places) Nov 11 05:13:56 but they got it working in the OS level, I believe - with a driver... Nov 11 05:14:49 the two low-level things that I am extremely interested in seeing are (in this order): 1: CPU frequency scaling implemented, and 2: USB host Nov 11 05:15:50 The CPU frequency scaling looks like it's almost entirely ready - except probably needs some testing and stuff done to it - but they have an msm / android specific cpu frequency governor in place already that is just not being compiled in or enabled in the stock kernel Nov 11 05:16:53 Again - that one looks like it is also waiting on Qualcomm to give some information so it can be completed Nov 11 05:24:52 RyeBrye_: what would be the range of frequencies the device could theoretically support? Nov 11 05:25:48 alansj - I will check the source - but the biggest range I see is on the "screen off" setting - where it can clock it down to as low as 82 MHz I believe Nov 11 05:26:47 interesting. Is the idea just for better power management? Nov 11 05:27:17 Yes Nov 11 05:27:31 Exactly - it throttles down the CPU when it's not being utilized, and brings it back up when it is under load Nov 11 05:28:10 the range for screen off is 82 MHz - 245 Mhz, and for screen on is 245 Mhz -> 384 MHz (at least that's what is specified in the source) Nov 11 05:29:03 hmm Nov 11 05:29:28 don't like the idea of stuff being pushed to my device, with programs runningat 82 mhz Nov 11 05:29:48 well... it would throttle up to 245 Mhz - that's the point of the scaling Nov 11 05:30:26 I'd be worried about programs running at 82 mhz anyway Nov 11 05:30:28 Even desktop machines do it for power savings, and they aren't powered by a battery the size of a domino Nov 11 05:30:49 Aye, I've got speedstepping enabled on this notebook :P Nov 11 05:31:15 It's nice, but 82 mhz seems a bit low. granted I'm not sure how CPU intensive some android apps are Nov 11 05:31:45 I would assume that it would only go to 82 if absolutely NOTHING was being used - since that range (82 -> 245) is a pretty big range Nov 11 05:32:19 since the chances of that case occuring are pretty slim - I would guess it would run at 245 most of the time - but even 245 would be better on the battery than 384 Nov 11 05:33:16 Is it a set frequency, as in 82 MHz OR 245, or are values in between accepted Nov 11 05:33:23 It's a range that it steps between Nov 11 05:33:35 There are steps in between Nov 11 05:33:45 that would be a bit better Nov 11 05:34:23 I'm intrigued by it. I'm going to see what is missing in it and see if I can get it working on mine Nov 11 05:49:23 10 GOTO 20 Nov 11 05:49:25 20 GOTO 10 Nov 11 05:50:05 * KNY 's mine explodes Nov 11 05:50:15 lol, that looks like old school basic Nov 11 05:50:27 from my tsr80 days Nov 11 05:50:29 yeah.. my first computer was a comodore 128 Nov 11 05:50:31 good times Nov 11 05:50:32 trs80* Nov 11 05:53:12 10 HOME; 20 SWEET; 30 GOTO 10 Nov 11 06:02:11 HELLO Nov 11 06:02:18 Will anyone join my secret order Nov 11 06:02:25 It is a Holy Order Nov 11 06:06:08 * Leeds has G1 Nov 11 06:06:52 whoah, that was quick. Nov 11 06:08:06 MTR (subway) across town, speak to a couple of shops in the phone mall, haggle a bit, buy it, come back Nov 11 06:08:18 how much?> Nov 11 06:08:29 $4400 before trade-in Nov 11 06:08:48 about US$570 Nov 11 06:09:10 traded in iPhone? Nov 11 06:09:31 no, SE G900 Nov 11 06:10:12 good call. Nov 11 06:11:16 looks like unlocked iPhone in HK is only marginally more expensive. Nov 11 06:12:57 yar Nov 11 06:14:55 wow, too quiet tonight Nov 11 06:18:56 hey DarkriftX do you know if it's possible to mount JesusFreke's images on my box so I can poke around in them Nov 11 06:19:11 the recovery? Nov 11 06:19:18 im sure it is, but dont know the command Nov 11 06:19:21 yeah, and the boot image Nov 11 06:19:31 RyeBrye_ might know Nov 11 06:19:46 I tried to mount it as a loopback device, but it wants a FS type Nov 11 06:19:47 I've never tried mounting them Nov 11 06:19:57 yaffs2 would likely be the fs type Nov 11 06:20:20 yeah, I figured. It doesn't recognize it as a type :( Nov 11 06:21:48 hrm... looks like I need to build the kernel module Nov 11 06:23:50 yeah, I would be surprised if a desktop had that prebuilt Nov 11 06:24:10 I didn't see it in the avalible modules Nov 11 06:26:43 * spikebike ponders which rc30 to use Nov 11 06:32:26 haha Nov 11 06:32:38 so we can now reroute application storage using symlinks? Nov 11 06:32:59 assuming root there are various methods Nov 11 06:33:13 reading the market fix Nov 11 06:33:24 thats pretty awesome, and something they should have done at launch Nov 11 06:38:29 gary ya Nov 11 06:38:35 or just give us root anyways Nov 11 06:39:28 /topic "root root root root root root root root root" Nov 11 06:40:01 CAN HAZ ROOT Nov 11 06:40:23 infobot: root Nov 11 06:40:24 root is, like, not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account. Nov 11 06:41:16 s/IRC/penis pump/ Nov 11 06:41:28 awww, can't replace other text Nov 11 06:41:40 So I have 2 G1's that were put in the mail today, anyone know what firmware version they will have?? Nov 11 06:41:49 who knows Nov 11 06:41:57 RC29 if you are lucky Nov 11 06:42:24 yes, thats what I'm hoping for.. Hoping that the production pipe is long enough.. Nov 11 06:42:25 Ms. Jackson if you're nasty Nov 11 06:44:00 2 G1s from where? Nov 11 06:44:23 tmobile Nov 11 06:44:31 most likely RC28 Nov 11 06:44:41 at least the 2-3 I know of bought in the last few days Nov 11 06:44:58 shipping from dallas/ft worth Nov 11 06:45:14 fingers crossed Nov 11 06:45:25 not that it's not a damn nice phone without root Nov 11 06:45:40 true, but much nicer with root. Nov 11 06:45:42 yeah... but root = phone god mode Nov 11 06:46:12 i see information slowly compiling here: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Nov 11 06:46:25 is there a wiki or other place where info is being compiled? Nov 11 06:46:38 Yar that's DarkriftX's site Nov 11 06:47:12 Zigner: not sure Nov 11 06:47:22 not really Zigner thats why i made that wiki Nov 11 06:47:29 for ppl to use Nov 11 06:47:38 ok, well thanks for putting it up.. Nov 11 06:47:39 RyeBrye_ is doing most of the work, but lots of ppl have added to it Nov 11 06:47:52 BTW, I had to use an older SDK to recompile the term app Nov 11 06:48:05 I've got nice green on black now Nov 11 06:48:27 I'm supprised that that tethering hasn't been done - or written up. Nov 11 06:48:51 I'm not sure how to modify the manifest to make shortcuts though. But you can use anycut to make one Nov 11 06:50:06 gawd I hate zip... crapping all over my nice directory structure Nov 11 06:51:13 ya Nov 11 06:51:30 I think zip and tar should have a query the user before dumping to the current dir Nov 11 06:51:39 Guys, have you read the debian install instructuins frim Saurik??? That's awesome!!! Nov 11 06:52:01 can't say I've looked at it yet Nov 11 06:52:04 indeed, I'll wait on that though Nov 11 06:52:08 I've looked it over pretty close Nov 11 06:52:29 will the recovery.img overwrite the modded one we've put in place? Nov 11 06:52:37 in the patch that is Nov 11 06:52:42 and should it be removed Nov 11 06:53:20 the JF images are good Nov 11 06:53:28 the recovery.img in it is the correct (modded) one Nov 11 06:53:36 Zigner: there's also android-internals.org that I run, but I'm happy to merge that into a different site if another site is established and is not filled with advertisiing. Nov 11 06:53:45 ok... the cpu frequency scaling in the kernel certainly works Nov 11 06:53:56 DarkriftX: do you want to collaborate? Nov 11 06:54:13 if you compile it in... but it's way slower :) Nov 11 06:54:16 I'm looking at the direct from google patch Nov 11 06:54:31 ? don't do their RC30 image Nov 11 06:54:42 their 4 meg update is not good Nov 11 06:54:49 you can replace things in the full image Nov 11 06:54:58 RyeBrye oh, I thought it wasn't Nov 11 06:55:03 Looking at the full image Nov 11 06:55:11 spikebike - yeah, there was stuff in the clock.c that is lacking Nov 11 06:55:29 ah, in the official rc30 kernel? Nov 11 06:55:35 Oh, no Nov 11 06:55:47 I was hearing speculation that maybe the clock was controlled by the radio part. Nov 11 06:55:56 nobody seemed to have decent 7201 docs Nov 11 06:56:01 No, nobody does Nov 11 06:56:23 the scaling works: Nov 11 06:56:33 dmesg output: <4>[ 300.541334] msm_cpufreq_target 199680 r 1 (81920-384000) selected 122880 Nov 11 06:56:43 or another line: <4>[ 276.331171] msm_cpufreq_target 81920 r 1 (81920-384000) selected 81920 Nov 11 06:56:52 someone needs to write an app that will let you turn off the cell radio. Nov 11 06:57:05 Airplane mode sucks because you don't get bluetooth or wifi Nov 11 06:58:17 So... yeah - it's basically underclocking the HELL out of my CPU - so... the bootup time was almost as bad as the bootup time of some of my older phones Nov 11 06:58:42 with it compiled in? Nov 11 06:58:47 Yes Nov 11 06:58:50 and enabled by default Nov 11 06:58:50 ouch Nov 11 06:58:57 Well... They SAID it wasn't ready :) Nov 11 06:59:01 I think they are right :) Nov 11 06:59:03 lol Nov 11 07:01:21 LOL - after turning on the frequency scaling, the bogomips reported in /proc/cpuinfo is 19.16 Nov 11 07:02:19 you should bump up the CPU to its normal 500 (and something) Mhz Nov 11 07:03:49 :) Nov 11 07:04:02 I'm just going to get rid of the frequency scaling bit for now Nov 11 07:04:15 and then look at the code and see if I can fix it Nov 11 07:04:36 Is it really normally 500? The cpu scaling stuff seems to think the max is 385 Nov 11 07:04:41 jairun I definitely agree, no cellular would be very useful Nov 11 07:05:15 I kinda figured cpu scaling just worked normally, my desktop, laptop, servers, and pda all seem to do it quite well Nov 11 07:05:25 I bet it will eventually Nov 11 07:05:50 but in order for it to work properly, someone has to write the governor... etc. for it Nov 11 07:06:40 spikebike: it would really save my battery in some situations Nov 11 07:06:43 I might play with it and see if I can get it to perform on my device Nov 11 07:07:11 jairun ya, I spend a significant amount of time with zero cellular signal Nov 11 07:07:31 trunk of cars? Nov 11 07:07:48 I run a CAVE Nov 11 07:08:00 which happens to be fittingly enough under ground Nov 11 07:08:03 almost as fun Nov 11 07:08:45 and also my office is in a building with high efficiency windows Nov 11 07:09:11 a friend from pacbell measured with the official measurement tools the signal outside the window Nov 11 07:09:24 basically said that the strength they saw was their goal for perfect coverage Nov 11 07:09:32 and inside the window it was effectively zero Nov 11 07:09:45 I work in a bigass concrete building, there's quite a few places inside where I have 0 service Nov 11 07:10:00 I have no service at home either Nov 11 07:10:17 which is why I really need voip working Nov 11 07:10:20 UMA would be awesome Nov 11 07:10:31 any insight into the codenames of init.rc in in / ? (trout, goldfish) ? cute :-) Nov 11 07:10:43 but to be honest since I redirect paging to XMPP and my wife can use gtalk I'm plenty reachable even if it isn't voice Nov 11 07:10:50 trout = g1 Nov 11 07:10:53 emulator rc's i think Nov 11 07:11:11 I thought the other was an unannounced different platform Nov 11 07:11:38 Quick - how fast can a shark swim? Nov 11 07:11:41 yeah, that would be sexy Nov 11 07:11:45 Quick - can we get the mower cheaper at another store? Nov 11 07:11:52 ;) Nov 11 07:11:55 lol Nov 11 07:12:13 Those renaissance freaks on that ad show me that T-mobile thinks only uber geeks will want the G1 Nov 11 07:12:30 because most normal people have a strong aversion to renaissance freaks Nov 11 07:12:49 like... I want to return mine now just because of that ad Nov 11 07:12:53 They should have added something to the commercial: "How can I get root on Linux?" Nov 11 07:12:57 LOL Nov 11 07:12:58 :) Nov 11 07:13:20 hrm... anyone mess with the mountd.conf yet? Nov 11 07:13:28 cbeust - if they had included that, they would have had to have someone type it instead of vocalize it. People who want root don't speak that often :) Nov 11 07:13:44 spikebike: repeater? Nov 11 07:13:54 Good thing they didn't include "What happens when I type 'reboot' on my G1?" Nov 11 07:13:59 :) Nov 11 07:14:10 adamant I doubt it would help unless I drilled a hole in the wall Nov 11 07:14:38 or "what does 'reboot' mean" and show "reboot" being typed into the search bar Nov 11 07:14:38 cave's gotta have an entrance and exit Nov 11 07:15:08 or one that's both Nov 11 07:15:23 hey guys, I had a quick question that is probably easier than i'm making it Nov 11 07:15:27 I meant CAVE not cave Nov 11 07:15:31 i.e. holodeck Nov 11 07:15:35 lol Nov 11 07:16:24 Has anyone ported debian to Android yet? I'd like to ask a quick question reguarding root access after the fact Nov 11 07:16:25 thus the joke about being fittingly enough under ground Nov 11 07:16:46 ITechJunkie - yes - saurik has Nov 11 07:16:47 er have you seen the debian on android page? Nov 11 07:16:48 he posted about it Nov 11 07:16:56 ITechJunkie, http://www.saurik.com/id/10 Nov 11 07:17:02 ITechJunkie: http://androidcommunity.com/jay-freeman-successfully-ports-debian-for-android-20081109/ Nov 11 07:17:15 RyeBrye_: right. I just got done reading his posts and I've sucessfully ported it over and it's running great. Nov 11 07:17:22 ah, great Nov 11 07:17:25 cool Nov 11 07:17:39 * spikebike is behind, just downloading a modded rc30 now Nov 11 07:17:45 will the OTA update get applied over wifi? Nov 11 07:17:50 yes Nov 11 07:17:53 it will Nov 11 07:17:54 My question is this. How do I get the terminal app in android running with full permissions so I can run the stuff lol Nov 11 07:18:04 you need root Nov 11 07:18:10 is there an su? Nov 11 07:18:13 spikebike: yeah, I'm just now updateing to 30 as well Nov 11 07:18:20 JF? Nov 11 07:18:25 will it automatically connect to my open wifi at home? Nov 11 07:18:39 spikebike: yea... but it's telling me "Permission Denied" Nov 11 07:18:42 you usually have to tell it once per AP Nov 11 07:18:44 has anyone come up with a way to preserve an 'su' while still allowing normal updates? Nov 11 07:18:46 so i'm guessing it can't find it? Nov 11 07:19:01 ITechJunkie - you need to have ro.secure=0 in your build Nov 11 07:19:02 tweakt no, you have to switch to moded updates Nov 11 07:19:06 tweakt_ - nope Nov 11 07:19:15 RyeBrye_: huh? Nov 11 07:19:16 IT are you running the real RC30? Nov 11 07:19:19 (from tmo) Nov 11 07:19:27 spikebike: i'm running 29 Nov 11 07:19:33 still havent' updated Nov 11 07:19:41 tweakt, there's a few people working on that Nov 11 07:19:44 well if you didn't make a suid shell you will need to Nov 11 07:19:46 ITechJunkie - get a moded RC30 so you can get root on the terminal on the device - that's the easiest way Nov 11 07:20:06 I'm pretty sure I could manage root with the RC30 update, but it's risky Nov 11 07:20:20 i.e. a hack that would survive an update Nov 11 07:20:22 hmm... okay. what will that do to my debian install? Nov 11 07:20:31 there's no hack that will survive an update Nov 11 07:20:38 fnord you sure? Nov 11 07:20:42 system gets clobbered Nov 11 07:20:50 /data is nosuid Nov 11 07:20:51 no, the 4MB update doesn't clobber much Nov 11 07:20:55 yes, no hack whatsoever will survive an update Nov 11 07:21:01 sdcard is nosuid, and assuming flash overwrites all of /system then no Nov 11 07:21:11 in that case it'll be clobbered by set_perm_recursive Nov 11 07:21:25 right Nov 11 07:21:39 but from what I can tell something are not replace and still runa s root Nov 11 07:21:46 ... so debian is a goner when I install the patched rc30? Nov 11 07:21:50 like say ifconfig Nov 11 07:22:04 ifconfig isn't setuid Nov 11 07:22:05 ITEchJunkie - where is it installed? your sdcard? it will be fine Nov 11 07:22:14 fnord it doesn't have to be if it's run by root Nov 11 07:22:15 it runs in init.rc tho Nov 11 07:22:47 my phone doesn't like the modded update Nov 11 07:22:48 RyeBrye_: yeah. So, basically i'll have to remount everything and reset the enviornment variables after I do the update? Nov 11 07:22:55 My thought was if a single binary is run by root that isn't replaced by the update then I could trojan that binary Nov 11 07:23:04 ITechJunkie - yeah Nov 11 07:23:27 spikebike - well... maybe you could do that. I'm not going to try it :P Nov 11 07:23:33 RyeBrye_: Where can I find the hacked rc30? I'd like to get crackin on that. Nov 11 07:23:52 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Nov 11 07:23:52 POS irc Nov 11 07:24:22 RyeBrye_: I've got it, nevermind Nov 11 07:24:58 rye ya, it's safer to just use the moded, and in fact that's what I'm doing Nov 11 07:25:19 Best thing is an altered /sbin/recovery Nov 11 07:25:33 yeah, I'm going ahead and useing the modded, I was thinking about rolling my own Nov 11 07:25:44 but one mistake and kiss root goodbye Nov 11 07:26:25 what is the big fat warning about using the 4meg rc30 patch... and bricking? Nov 11 07:26:31 or worst case kiss the phone goodbye Nov 11 07:26:40 tweat any file monidifcations might brick your phone Nov 11 07:26:45 like say deleting otacerts Nov 11 07:26:51 the 4 meg patch doesn't deal with changes well Nov 11 07:26:57 fnord, ahh Nov 11 07:26:58 or normal builds for that matter Nov 11 07:27:13 the big one does a full reinstall Nov 11 07:27:17 yay, the update is working... I guess it didn't like it when I powered my phone down without unmounting the sdcard first lol Nov 11 07:27:29 i'm just worried about hitting a dead end where I can never get my phone back to 'normal' Nov 11 07:27:41 ? Nov 11 07:27:56 you can always go back from modified to the unmodified - but it's a one-way street Nov 11 07:28:03 well sort of Nov 11 07:28:11 er yes it's one way Nov 11 07:28:13 until rc30 is broken Nov 11 07:28:22 if it's broken Nov 11 07:28:25 yar Nov 11 07:28:28 it's far afrom a sure thing Nov 11 07:28:42 it's not like there's a 1000 binaries with tons of buffer overruns Nov 11 07:28:44 flashing via usb Nov 11 07:28:53 and there's what 4 security levels? Nov 11 07:28:57 ok. yeah but future updates I will have to either mod myself or rely on others to mod the updates each time... pain. but I guess that's the price to pay Nov 11 07:29:05 process, users, sql, and VM Nov 11 07:29:18 tweakt - not that big of a pain Nov 11 07:29:22 tweakt yeah, unless they come out with a devel program for devleopers or something Nov 11 07:29:23 * JairunCaloth crosses fingers Nov 11 07:29:26 reboot commin Nov 11 07:29:34 if someone gets creative they could even do ota updates for the mods Nov 11 07:29:36 tweakt - and you will likely STILL get the updates faster than with waiting for T-mobiles OTA Nov 11 07:29:42 heh yeah Nov 11 07:29:49 my 2nd phone is still on RC19 Nov 11 07:30:14 and will llikely be rc30 modded within the hour Nov 11 07:30:35 the beautiful thing about this really, is if tmo doesn't include updates that we want from the open source version, we can just grab em and make them ours Nov 11 07:30:59 yup Nov 11 07:31:03 once they open up and have a development tree available it will be nice to bang on the actual upcoming stuff Nov 11 07:31:14 it's actually a nicer position to be in because we get the goodies that aren't opensource as well Nov 11 07:31:18 for example, I'd be supprised if tmo includes bluetooth tethering if/when the open source version does Nov 11 07:31:27 yeah Nov 11 07:31:32 or VPN Nov 11 07:31:42 or backups Nov 11 07:32:38 cool I have AndroidMod.zip update-RC30-fullupdate-modified-testkeys-v1.1.zip and a fully charged g1 Nov 11 07:32:45 woot Nov 11 07:32:51 Hopefully 1.2 isn't already posted somewhere Nov 11 07:32:55 I've still got root in RC30 :) Nov 11 07:33:02 congrats Nov 11 07:33:14 that was slightly nervwracking Nov 11 07:33:15 do you have any google doc spreadsheets? Nov 11 07:33:25 yeah, I didn't want to do it short of sleep last night Nov 11 07:33:32 nor with any distractions Nov 11 07:33:41 otherwise I'd have to buy a new phone like JF Nov 11 07:34:03 Yeah, that first update is pretty sketchy :) Nov 11 07:34:04 does it give any indication that its downloading the ota update? Nov 11 07:34:15 Zinger - it chuckles like an evil demon Nov 11 07:34:25 heh, yeah and refuse to update it till it's made easy enough for my mom to do it Nov 11 07:34:38 * paranoid that when initially playing with phones they will get updated. Nov 11 07:34:46 zigner yes Nov 11 07:34:54 * RyeBrye_ wonders WTF his GPS is doing on immediately after boot Nov 11 07:34:55 I'd suggest moving otacerts asap Nov 11 07:35:06 tmo's MIB need a location Nov 11 07:35:16 I have no service at home, but yeah, that's the next item on the agenda Nov 11 07:35:18 men in black? Nov 11 07:35:22 ya Nov 11 07:35:33 ryebrye maybe it's uploading an almanac Nov 11 07:36:36 :) Nov 11 07:36:38 maybe Nov 11 07:37:08 just a second, I've got to see why a helicopter is landing on my lawn Nov 11 07:37:17 anyone know what cacerts is? Nov 11 07:37:22 it's the root certs Nov 11 07:37:30 don't move that - or your device wont trust any certs Nov 11 07:37:37 so SSL stuff wont work Nov 11 07:37:38 ah ok Nov 11 07:37:43 yeah, that would blow Nov 11 07:37:49 no more e-mail lol Nov 11 07:38:01 the adb root shell is a nice touch Nov 11 07:38:10 although I think I would rather su for root Nov 11 07:38:24 yeah Nov 11 07:39:30 with root that's easy to fix Nov 11 07:43:34 the lack of escape makes vi hard to use on the phone Nov 11 07:45:39 * spikebike prods DarkriftX Nov 11 07:45:46 sup Nov 11 07:46:02 using pre-modified RC30 Nov 11 07:46:07 in step #2 flash the image Nov 11 07:46:17 are you supposed to unzip it? Nov 11 07:46:44 no Nov 11 07:46:46 no Nov 11 07:46:57 rename to update.zip and flash it Nov 11 07:47:01 so I should just cat it into place creating recovery.img Nov 11 07:47:09 er the direction say recovery.img Nov 11 07:47:09 im lost Nov 11 07:47:29 # Download the recovery image Nov 11 07:47:29 # Flash the recovery image from step 1 Nov 11 07:47:31 that part? Nov 11 07:47:35 ya Nov 11 07:47:46 ahh, yes Nov 11 07:47:48 so I have androidmod.zip Nov 11 07:47:56 the AndroidMod.zip has 2 .img files in it Nov 11 07:48:04 you flash the recovery.img file Nov 11 07:48:04 so I am supposed to unzip it? Nov 11 07:48:11 i thought you meant the ota .zip file Nov 11 07:48:13 yes Nov 11 07:48:39 click the link, it has more details: 1: download the replacement recovery image and unzip it to your sd card. Nov 11 07:48:51 I'm reading the link carefull or trying to Nov 11 07:49:03 although the UNFINISHED at the top in unsettling Nov 11 07:50:00 and unzip gives me all kinds of crazy error messages Nov 11 07:50:43 which of course led me to think maybe I wasn't supposed to unzip Nov 11 07:50:59 SignApk\README: mismatching "local" filename (SignApk/README) Nov 11 07:51:10 How do I boot into recovery mode? they don't clearly state that Nov 11 07:51:12 spikebike: thats what i'm working on as well. I unzipped the file and I now have the recovery image in /system but now I can't figure out how to boot into recovery Nov 11 07:51:14 spikebike: I follwed that word for word and had no trouble at all Nov 11 07:51:30 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Boot_Modifiers Nov 11 07:51:34 Alt-L on bootup? it sounds like you press that after the way it's worded Nov 11 07:51:47 looks like it's just freaking because it's using the wrong file seperators Nov 11 07:51:54 hold home while powering on to get to recovery mode Nov 11 07:52:00 TY Nov 11 07:52:03 np Nov 11 07:52:04 JairunCaloth: thx Nov 11 07:52:48 don't forget to acctually flash the images Nov 11 07:53:12 spikebike, that means it was copied from the original forum post, but not formatted for wiki Nov 11 07:53:23 i try not to mess with instructions on steps i do not know about Nov 11 07:53:28 so i dont mess them up Nov 11 07:53:33 that is the raw text from the author Nov 11 07:54:32 i'm assuming we can't use the adb shell while we're in recovery mode right? Nov 11 07:55:05 ITechJunkie: correct, but you can use adb to push files to the device with the modded recovery mode Nov 11 07:55:14 k Nov 11 07:57:14 just so I know what to expect, this wipes installed apps + settings right? Nov 11 07:57:16 spikebike - the file seperators have to be for linux Nov 11 07:57:21 nop Nov 11 07:57:25 tweakt_: nope Nov 11 07:57:33 tweakt - only the /system stuff - which is below the covers anyway Nov 11 07:57:39 tweakt_: but it will wipe out anything you've setup in your /system stuff Nov 11 07:57:46 oh nice... ok tnx Nov 11 07:57:55 for instance, if you've setup busybox or anything like that Nov 11 07:58:01 * spikebike flashes the recovery_testkeys.img contents (anmed recovery.img0 Nov 11 07:58:01 though, the update does include busybox Nov 11 07:58:19 ) Nov 11 07:58:22 and su for gaining root Nov 11 07:58:43 so after flash_image, reboot to recovery? Nov 11 07:59:00 flash_image recovery? Nov 11 07:59:05 yes Nov 11 07:59:23 then make sure it says "using test keys" when you get tehre Nov 11 07:59:24 it's a good idea, to make sure that your recovery.img was sucessfuly flashed Nov 11 07:59:48 JairunCaloth, you mean before rebooting? how? Nov 11 08:00:10 reboot into recovery mode to make sure it works Nov 11 08:00:18 ahh, k Nov 11 08:00:34 So I rebooted and held down home when I turned it on Nov 11 08:00:46 now I get an ! in a triangle beside a picture of the g1 Nov 11 08:00:53 you should see the ! icon Nov 11 08:01:02 alt + l Nov 11 08:01:15 ah, cool using test keys Nov 11 08:01:34 yep me too Nov 11 08:01:41 damn that screen was scary at first ;-) Nov 11 08:01:47 ya Nov 11 08:01:49 lol yeah, it messed me up too Nov 11 08:02:06 I didn't realize it was hideing stuff from me Nov 11 08:02:09 now for the next flash Nov 11 08:02:55 so push the modded update.zip to sdcard and hit Alt+S ? Nov 11 08:03:34 gotta flash the boot.img Nov 11 08:04:24 second part of the recovery image howto Nov 11 08:04:56 "Note: If you are planning on installing the modified RC30 update, you can ignore the following - there is no need to install the boot image. The update already has a newer, modified boot image." Nov 11 08:05:36 oh ok Nov 11 08:05:45 You must be reading a different page then I did Nov 11 08:06:07 JesusFreke's modded RC30 update Nov 11 08:06:21 I'm using http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Nov 11 08:06:32 and specifically not using the bottom half of http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Replace_Recovery_Partition Nov 11 08:07:28 hello Nov 11 08:07:49 I did the bottom half of the replace recovery partition. I totally missed the fact that you didn't have to do it Nov 11 08:10:31 sdcard root is /sdcard right? Nov 11 08:10:37 yes Nov 11 08:11:11 ya Nov 11 08:11:21 tweakt_: just make sure you spell update right lol... i had to do that step twice Nov 11 08:11:22 * spikebike watches the open box -> yellow arrow -> g1 Nov 11 08:11:57 hey, did anyone notice the 'adb remount' command? (remounts /system in rw mode) Nov 11 08:12:00 badass, the android default ringtones are in oog format Nov 11 08:12:50 yeah tweakt_ I saw that earlier Nov 11 08:12:53 not the yellow arrow onto the chip Nov 11 08:13:10 I just use mount -o remount rw /system Nov 11 08:13:28 hmm, it seemed to copy... but then not found Nov 11 08:13:39 ITechJunkie: better then me, I just rebooted the phone without unmounting the sdcard and ended up with an unreadable update.zip Nov 11 08:14:28 JairunCaloth: Honestly, I think I did that too now that I think about it... Nov 11 08:14:39 this is definitely the most stressful thing I've done in awhile Nov 11 08:14:47 tweakt_: not found where? Nov 11 08:14:50 it rebooted twice (with vibration) after the flash Nov 11 08:14:54 spikebike: lol, lucky you Nov 11 08:15:02 E:Can't open /sdcard/update.zip Nov 11 08:15:11 (No such file or directory) Nov 11 08:15:26 reboot and double check it Nov 11 08:15:30 tweakt_: you probably did what JairunCaloth and I did Nov 11 08:15:33 claims I'm RC4-RC30 Nov 11 08:15:44 but in the build description says ota-rel-keys, release-keys Nov 11 08:15:50 shoudl that say test keys? Nov 11 08:16:28 ah su works Nov 11 08:16:30 I dunoo spikebike, mine says the same as yours Nov 11 08:16:36 * spikebike breaths a sigh of relief Nov 11 08:16:46 Go commmunity! Nov 11 08:16:55 hehe Nov 11 08:17:08 shweet, mine does too. Nov 11 08:17:25 welcome to RC30 where you can type rm -rf into chat and not accidentily format your phone Nov 11 08:17:44 lol... man i hope nobody did that Nov 11 08:17:45 no more downloading 4.5MB updates once an hour Nov 11 08:17:58 heh, they hadn't tried to push it to me yet Nov 11 08:18:02 spikebike: i only got that once surprisingly enough Nov 11 08:18:06 don't think it would work Nov 11 08:18:09 is ro isn't it Nov 11 08:19:33 oh fudge, the rc30 update didn't fix google docs Nov 11 08:19:38 still too close for me lol Nov 11 08:19:47 really? :( Nov 11 08:20:17 has anyone come up with a good script to remount the system for debian? Nov 11 08:20:39 okay, phone number 2 Nov 11 08:20:41 The one on the how to isn't working for me Nov 11 08:20:44 I haven't even touched the debian stuff yet Nov 11 08:21:14 JairunCaloth: It's pretty cool, I was kinda shocked at how simple the concept was. Nov 11 08:21:24 yeah I was as well Nov 11 08:21:36 although in practise it's kinda complex.. i.e. rebooting Nov 11 08:21:39 i've got htop, vim, gcc, and the actuall ssh on my phone Nov 11 08:21:42 so far Nov 11 08:21:58 spikebike: true Nov 11 08:22:17 I still can't reboot or halt the system from the command line once i've gotton it up and going Nov 11 08:23:25 spikebike: in the docs.google.com web interface, it looks like you can view docs but not edit them Nov 11 08:23:33 maybe adb push to /sdcard doesn't work in recovery mode? Nov 11 08:23:34 even view seems horribly broken Nov 11 08:23:37 for some reason it isn't reading the script that im trying to give it. Nov 11 08:23:50 I'm just trying to set an envirnmental variable and it wont take Nov 11 08:24:04 ahh updating now... finally Nov 11 08:24:05 tweakt_: you can reboot into regular mode to try it again Nov 11 08:24:08 does the debian distro include it's own glibc etc? I see that his instructions have you symlinking to /system/bin/linker Nov 11 08:25:03 thanks whoever did the tutorial on unpacking the images Nov 11 08:25:09 Hey, at the top... "E:Can't open /cache/recovery/command" that's normal right? Nov 11 08:25:16 well i've gotta get some sleep guys, i've gotta go to work in the morning and it's already 2:30 here Nov 11 08:25:16 yes, normal Nov 11 08:25:17 everything else looks good Nov 11 08:25:18 tewakt: yes Nov 11 08:25:24 thanks for all the help Nov 11 08:25:31 you guys kick ass Nov 11 08:26:06 uhh, arrow onto chip after first reboot, normal? Nov 11 08:26:15 *paranoid* Nov 11 08:26:24 ok, nm.. phwew Nov 11 08:26:28 tweakt - nope, but it's too late to do anything about it Nov 11 08:26:35 tweakt - just kidding :) Nov 11 08:26:39 :-P Nov 11 08:26:39 doomed! Nov 11 08:26:44 welcome to Mr Brick! Nov 11 08:27:08 lol you guys are going to hell Nov 11 08:27:15 we should make a youtube video Nov 11 08:27:19 Ahh, happy glowing robot time Nov 11 08:27:33 you can do screencaptures of the booting via adb Nov 11 08:27:39 of the recoverty that is Nov 11 08:28:55 uhhhh Nov 11 08:28:58 is there anyw ays to get a live feed from a booted g1? Nov 11 08:29:03 takes a long time to boot? Nov 11 08:29:04 i.e. vnc server or the like Nov 11 08:29:12 Android logo.... waiting... Nov 11 08:29:38 yeah, takes a while Nov 11 08:29:43 just be patient Nov 11 08:29:47 omg... that was painful. done! THANKS! Nov 11 08:30:24 lawls Nov 11 08:30:28 you should see how slwo it is when it boots up at 120 Mhz :) Nov 11 08:30:42 windows mobile on the G1, what blasphemy Nov 11 08:30:53 someone did it? Nov 11 08:31:00 so... wrong Nov 11 08:31:04 someone was asking about it Nov 11 08:31:09 RyeBrye_, you got cpu speed changed? Nov 11 08:31:16 DarkriftX - yeah, but it sucked Nov 11 08:31:19 lol Nov 11 08:31:25 DarkriftX - so I took it off Nov 11 08:31:27 you have no control of that in /sys? Nov 11 08:31:29 ahh, nice USB connected notification now Nov 11 08:31:31 what all speeds were useable? Nov 11 08:31:40 wow these directs are really obtuse Nov 11 08:31:42 you have no control of that in /sys? (cpufreq) Nov 11 08:31:53 sweet! adb shell = root Nov 11 08:31:54 msm_cpufreq_target 199680 r 1 (81920-384000) selected 122880 Nov 11 08:32:02 tmzt - yeah, but I was using frequency scaling Nov 11 08:32:17 spikebike, you mean the ones on the wiki? Nov 11 08:32:25 it kept jumping down to 122 MHz or 82 Mhz Nov 11 08:32:34 yeah Nov 11 08:32:42 if so, please help make it easier if you are able Nov 11 08:32:46 the fact I had debugging on it turned on might have been a big factor why it sucked so bad, I might try again later with the debugging turned off Nov 11 08:33:01 dark what would be the easiest way to fork it Nov 11 08:33:11 RyeBrye_ and me are the only ones really working on it besides some ppl making new posts once in a while Nov 11 08:33:13 I'd want someone to spot check it before publishing it to the hordes Nov 11 08:33:24 heh, thats why i dont edit much Nov 11 08:33:29 cause i cant test to confirm Nov 11 08:33:31 spikebike - just make the changes - don't worry about the hordes Nov 11 08:33:34 heh Nov 11 08:33:35 lol Nov 11 08:33:39 they will fix it if you are wrong Nov 11 08:33:40 so where is tor again? Nov 11 08:33:43 ;-) Nov 11 08:33:43 or I will Nov 11 08:33:55 * RyeBrye_ prefers to fix things that are wrong :) Nov 11 08:33:56 i mean edit it as you find something wrong Nov 11 08:34:08 not wrong, just complicated Nov 11 08:34:08 or if you find a better way that works, add it Nov 11 08:34:22 k, I'll do it and let you both know Nov 11 08:34:34 and if you think it's better leave it, if not revert Nov 11 08:34:39 I'm off to bed though Nov 11 08:34:42 k Nov 11 08:34:52 is the otacerts rename still needed? Nov 11 08:35:01 dunno, I do it just to be safe Nov 11 08:35:22 I thought it was rather unsafe Nov 11 08:35:28 "always use protection" Nov 11 08:35:34 do you want to test for us tweakt? Nov 11 08:35:38 see if its needed :) Nov 11 08:35:39 lol Nov 11 08:35:40 i.e. accidental update = brick Nov 11 08:35:41 I mean moving the otacerts that is Nov 11 08:35:49 with unmodded you don't need it afaik Nov 11 08:35:53 by "do it" I mean "move it" Nov 11 08:35:54 oops Nov 11 08:36:01 with a modded system you don't need to Nov 11 08:36:35 although I think the risk was only with the partial rc30 update Nov 11 08:37:06 I would move it anyway since there is no risk in moving it, but there is a little risk in leaving it in place Nov 11 08:37:20 well if i'm now running RC30 i'm good, but yeah, don't want RC31 coming along and wrecking my system Nov 11 08:37:35 well with a moded rc30 your keys are not different Nov 11 08:37:39 now rather Nov 11 08:37:56 well... with the speed T-mobile moves, RC31 will launch in 2 or 3 weeks and will take 4 or 5 days to roll out Nov 11 08:38:07 and that's if they have a major security thing they are working on patching Nov 11 08:38:09 but phone info screen shows ota-rel-keys is that right? Nov 11 08:38:15 yeah Nov 11 08:38:16 it should Nov 11 08:38:21 although it would be evil if they used the test keys to do an update Nov 11 08:38:34 I don't think the JF image ahs the test keys in the otacerts.zip file Nov 11 08:38:34 lol yeah Nov 11 08:38:43 I renamed mine just to be on the safe side Nov 11 08:38:44 I think he just patched his image Nov 11 08:38:58 JairunCaloth, and I have as well Nov 11 08:38:59 the recovery.img is independent of the otacerts.zip Nov 11 08:40:30 oh wow, that debian thing looks badass Nov 11 08:40:35 I'ma have to do that tomorrow Nov 11 08:41:17 wtf Nov 11 08:41:40 that's crazy Nov 11 08:43:21 all that effort to slim down and streamline... poof Nov 11 08:44:31 I think i'll stick with the stock system. that's a bit too extreme for me Nov 11 08:44:42 what is? Nov 11 08:45:03 this guy built a complete debian system on his phone Nov 11 08:45:09 http://www.saurik.com/id/10 Nov 11 08:45:13 oh, yeah Nov 11 08:45:33 it's not invasive, really Nov 11 08:47:10 I met that guy at Google-IO, he was showing people Java on the iPhone Nov 11 08:49:12 why can't you remove whatever is actually doing the updates? Nov 11 08:50:12 I don't think anyone's aware of what does the updates, exactly Nov 11 08:50:14 tmzt: I suppose it's possible, but I'm betting it would require some rewriting Nov 11 08:50:32 tweakt, that guy is in here Nov 11 08:50:50 not a daemon? someting under zygote? Nov 11 08:51:15 what about tcpdump and lsof/netstat -p Nov 11 08:51:15 there's pesteractivity which does the prompting. it communicates with something. then there's recovery, which something boots the phone into Nov 11 08:51:22 Hi. I am using Cygwin to 'repo sync' Android sources but getting this error Nov 11 08:51:25 "error: Untracked working tree file 'Android.mk' would be overwritten by merge." Nov 11 08:51:34 oh saurik hey man, didn't see you ;-) hehe Nov 11 08:51:35 I'd have checked that except I never got pestered :P Nov 11 08:51:46 rahul: did you modify Anroid.mk? Nov 11 08:51:54 tmzt, no, i haven't Nov 11 08:52:04 this is my first ever checkout Nov 11 08:52:34 then that's weird, must be a limitation of cywin/ntfs Nov 11 08:52:50 ;( Nov 11 08:53:11 is saurik running in chroot or replacing everything? Nov 11 08:53:44 chroot Nov 11 08:53:46 chroot mostly with some symlinks to run some apps without haveing to chroot it looks like Nov 11 08:54:09 then yeah there's the unionfs stuff Nov 11 08:54:31 not in the kernel though, is it? Nov 11 08:54:38 unionfs Nov 11 08:55:34 it's loaded as a module Nov 11 08:56:08 so you can load modules as root on g1?, didn't know that Nov 11 08:56:23 I wonder if fbcon could be put back then Nov 11 08:56:47 (or maybe he does that) Nov 11 08:57:30 likely so. don't think he did though Nov 11 08:57:30 wait, I did know because the wifi script does it Nov 11 08:57:56 I just assumed there was more DID here Nov 11 08:58:18 not just "keep out of root" Nov 11 08:59:21 fbcon makes it a generic linux device, which is why Ihoped they had left that at release Nov 11 08:59:42 as an alternative to zgote/fb at least Nov 11 08:59:44 DID? Nov 11 08:59:55 defense-in-depth Nov 11 08:59:58 yeah, ability to switch between android desktop and true console would be nice Nov 11 09:00:31 they took out the vt switching in zygote, so you basically have to kill it Nov 11 09:00:46 g'nite guys Nov 11 09:00:50 without losing your shell Nov 11 09:01:16 maybe put rc29 telnet in init.rc Nov 11 09:03:02 there's issues with non-zygote console tho Nov 11 09:03:19 / etf Nov 11 09:03:20 etc Nov 11 09:03:50 you could make root on mtd yaffs2 Nov 11 09:03:59 even use data for that Nov 11 09:04:34 add a switch_root to cpio initrd Nov 11 09:05:23 since you are able to replace the initramfs, right? Nov 11 09:05:47 yup Nov 11 09:06:03 i've been poking at the recovery initramfs Nov 11 09:06:45 I would maybe use only recovery, and root on data partition Nov 11 09:08:38 but you would need to stop recovery.img from getting written Nov 11 09:08:53 that's why i'm poking at it Nov 11 09:09:00 and /sbin/recovery Nov 11 09:10:17 there is source for flash_image and modules are loadable into kernel, so two wrong asumptions there Nov 11 09:10:44 ? Nov 11 09:10:46 but mtd driver is fixed in partitions Nov 11 09:10:52 cmonex: hi Nov 11 09:11:19 fnord: sorry, I meant my assuptions Nov 11 09:21:13 at any rate the debian stuff is amusing Nov 11 09:23:06 huh, is there any reason not to hae cdc ethernet or rndis with google gadget api? Nov 11 09:23:41 then that nat stuff would work without the proxy programs Nov 11 09:28:48 fnord: could there be a modified shutdown/reboot command (like kexec use) that sets a flag in arm9? to reboot into recovery? Nov 11 09:29:49 I don't see why not? Other processes do the same. Nov 11 09:30:33 I mean you sais something reboots it into recovery Nov 11 09:30:48 but don't know what yet Nov 11 09:31:54 right Nov 11 09:40:18 does the android browser have a different way of handling mouse events Nov 11 09:40:34 is there documentation Nov 11 09:40:39 fnord: reboot(RB_AUTOBOOT) after clearing CACHE: Nov 11 09:41:14 in recovery.git firmware.c Nov 11 09:42:38 tmzt, yup, that's the program that resides in the recovery partition...it's not present in a normal boot Nov 11 09:42:58 milluminu: if it helps... it's webkit Nov 11 09:43:42 yeah i know i was wondering more about how it registers the events given its a touch interface Nov 11 09:44:14 trying to make a web app that works on it Nov 11 09:44:15 ./packages/apps/Updater/src/com/android/updater/PesterActivity.java is communicating with...what? Nov 11 09:44:39 is that in git? Nov 11 09:44:47 yes, it is Nov 11 09:45:06 it deals with the dialog for updating Nov 11 09:45:14 and enacting the update Nov 11 09:47:02 but as far as what downloads, verifies, and reboots into recovery... Nov 11 09:47:19 it also writes a /cache/recovery/command file, to automatically start the update Nov 11 09:49:23 how do "intents" get sent? Nov 11 09:50:39 No clue Nov 11 09:51:26 I updated the keeping root directions Nov 11 09:51:33 alas I can't get the numbering right Nov 11 09:53:35 ? Nov 11 09:55:18 there is no provider Checkin? Nov 11 09:55:52 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Nov 11 09:56:03 I can't get the formatting or numbering right Nov 11 10:00:14 ill check it Nov 11 10:01:30 I want it to start with #4 after the code snippet Nov 11 10:03:31 DarkriftX: the goal is to need no other pages, no substitutions, just provide what a regular user needs to get it done... without first having to live/eat/breath the android specific stuff (like adb, shell syntax, naming conventions, etc.) Nov 11 10:03:42 basically a lower stress upgrade Nov 11 10:03:43 hey i changed my certs file a few days back and i have rc29 - im still safe no reason to worry, right? Nov 11 10:04:18 yes rc29 is stress free Nov 11 10:04:32 it maybe downloading the rc30 patch regularly Nov 11 10:04:41 but that's just burning bandwidth Nov 11 10:04:41 i made a dir with the same name as the file it kept downloads Nov 11 10:04:54 ah, ya, that might fail right away Nov 11 10:05:03 does dev_info say something like can't write file XYZ? Nov 11 10:05:22 dev_info? Nov 11 10:05:38 ahve you installed any cut? Nov 11 10:05:57 i put on busybox Nov 11 10:06:47 not sure what u mean Nov 11 10:07:07 have you installed the application called any cut? Nov 11 10:07:53 lol spikebike: Download the [Modified RC30 from JesusFreke] (Do not unzip it!), unzip the file, copy (or adb push) to /sdcard/update.zip Nov 11 10:08:01 download (do not unzip), unzip Nov 11 10:08:04 heh oops Nov 11 10:08:13 i had to read it like 5x Nov 11 10:08:17 sorry Nov 11 10:08:20 want me to fix that Nov 11 10:08:34 I stopped editing when I couldn't fix the numbering Nov 11 10:13:20 ah looking better Nov 11 10:15:58 let me know when you are done and I'll make a few more tweaks Nov 11 10:17:45 spikebike: no i haven't installed any cut Nov 11 10:18:20 I recommend it from market Nov 11 10:18:36 it extends your phone in numerous ways Nov 11 10:20:24 so...this will help me stop my phone downloading stuf? Nov 11 10:20:55 no Nov 11 10:21:05 the best thing to do is to update to a modded rc30 Nov 11 10:21:43 oh, lol, im done Nov 11 10:22:01 k Nov 11 10:22:19 Visitor 16310 is editing wiki Nov 11 10:22:20 lol Nov 11 10:25:27 seem like an improved page, a bit easier for the newbie? Nov 11 10:25:49 it saves a reboot and avoids any inferred substitutions Nov 11 10:28:45 lol Nov 11 10:28:57 rebooting is fun Nov 11 10:29:09 i dont get to do it much since losing windows Nov 11 10:31:52 okay, some clarifications, warnings, and error handling added Nov 11 10:33:25 cool Nov 11 10:34:08 btw I checked with JF about the otacerts Nov 11 10:34:17 he said to remove em and in the next versino that will be fixed Nov 11 10:34:26 cool Nov 11 10:36:15 * DarkriftX smokes once more before sleep Nov 11 10:36:16 gn all Nov 11 10:40:33 is there a simple way i can get my phone to d/l a file? i try in the browser but its a .zip file and it yells at me Nov 11 10:41:06 long press, save as Nov 11 10:41:36 yeah i get rejected Nov 11 10:41:37 or go to console and "wget " Nov 11 10:41:52 The content being downloaded is not supported by the phone Nov 11 10:42:01 DarkriftX: yeah i tried that too it fails Nov 11 10:42:02 make sure you cd /sdcard Nov 11 10:42:08 is the link dynamic? Nov 11 10:42:30 wget: bad address 'android-dls.com' Nov 11 10:42:41 domain.com/file.php?file=test.zip will not work most of the time, but domain.com/file.zip will Nov 11 10:42:41 wget http://android-dls.com/files/linux/AndroidMod.zip Nov 11 10:42:50 thats not good Nov 11 10:43:13 yeah seems like it should work - wget work for u guys? Nov 11 10:43:43 often wget needs "'s aroudn the URLs to avoid shell completion mucking with it Nov 11 10:43:56 thing like ? in particular Nov 11 10:43:59 or spaces Nov 11 10:44:04 & is another big one Nov 11 10:44:34 tried " same error Nov 11 10:44:57 no & or ? or spaces - http://www.google.com fails too Nov 11 10:45:01 odd Nov 11 10:45:16 yeah, busybox wget seems to be fucked Nov 11 10:45:23 same results on emu Nov 11 10:45:42 lemme do something for you Nov 11 10:46:00 or maybe ' Nov 11 10:46:09 ' should definitely block substitutions Nov 11 10:46:20 nope Nov 11 10:46:25 bummer Nov 11 10:47:27 i renamed it .xxx and im reupping (my ftp doesnt have cp lol) Nov 11 10:47:35 ahh perfect Nov 11 10:48:38 refresh that page and try Nov 11 10:49:33 users on the market bother me Nov 11 10:49:44 unless im a complete idiot, you can not set a search + key shortcut in anycut Nov 11 10:49:59 DarkriftX: thanks that worked Nov 11 10:50:04 np Nov 11 10:50:07 thats not good though Nov 11 10:50:10 we need a fix for that Nov 11 10:50:29 a fix for busybox's wget on android? Nov 11 10:50:37 that and the browser Nov 11 10:50:43 it should let you dl zips Nov 11 10:50:44 does the browser not work as well? Nov 11 10:50:47 nope Nov 11 10:50:49 oh, it auto unzips? Nov 11 10:50:53 unsupported file size Nov 11 10:50:56 erm Nov 11 10:50:57 type Nov 11 10:50:59 funky Nov 11 10:51:04 no, shitty lol Nov 11 10:51:13 has anyone released a browser based on the android source Nov 11 10:51:17 maybe that's fixed in rc30 Nov 11 10:51:19 not afaik Nov 11 10:51:29 * DarkriftX goes to bed now Nov 11 10:51:32 i wanna make some changes, but only if i know its somewhat easy Nov 11 10:51:37 what about busybox wget? Nov 11 10:51:43 i fet the feeling im going to have to rename all the classes and change the intents Nov 11 10:51:48 well it's webkit based Nov 11 10:51:50 fnord: doesn't work at all Nov 11 10:52:09 oh. i have a non-static version Nov 11 10:52:13 but yeah folks don't really fork unless they can improve something substantial Nov 11 10:52:13 works fine Nov 11 10:52:27 like say adding imap_idle to the mail client Nov 11 10:52:43 hmm i can't seem to find the file on my g1 Nov 11 10:52:57 oohhh Nov 11 10:52:59 i am tired Nov 11 10:53:06 "download unsuccessful" Nov 11 10:54:29 DarkriftX: i think the link is bad Nov 11 10:54:55 which link? Nov 11 10:55:00 http://n1.fnord.to/g1/glibc.tgz http://n1.fnord.to/g1/busybox-dyn Nov 11 10:55:16 lol, fixed Nov 11 10:55:27 i forgot to add the xxx part and left it at . Nov 11 10:55:42 i just realized i could have fixed it Nov 11 10:55:43 bleh Nov 11 10:56:07 if you find more types that do not work, add them here: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_Browser_File_Types Nov 11 10:56:08 lol Nov 11 10:56:11 a page for everything! Nov 11 10:56:13 any chance you wanna do the other one too? Nov 11 10:56:29 there's another zip file on that page Nov 11 10:58:03 blau: the market is full of idiots Nov 11 10:58:24 sigh Nov 11 10:58:45 [22180.125713] Buffer I/O error on device mmcblk0, logical block 406410 Nov 11 10:58:45 [22180.126262] lost page write due to I/O error on mmcblk0 Nov 11 10:58:45 [22180.126812] end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector 406411 Nov 11 10:58:45 [22180.127117] Buffer I/O error on device mmcblk0, logical block 406411 Nov 11 10:58:45 [22180.127636] lost page write due to I/O error on mmcblk0 Nov 11 10:58:47 uh-oh Nov 11 10:58:58 refresh fcrick Nov 11 10:59:03 and because i ask for a donation once when you start the app for the first time, after i explain instructions, someone left a review like "nagware, begware, useless" Nov 11 10:59:06 DarkriftX: ty :) Nov 11 10:59:22 blau, ignore them Nov 11 10:59:37 some ppl are fuckwads Nov 11 10:59:49 if its useful, ppl will try it and some will donate Nov 11 10:59:53 its so weird it renames .xxx files to .asc...odd feature Nov 11 10:59:54 most ppl ignore stuff like that anyways Nov 11 11:00:02 yes fcrick ive noticed Nov 11 11:00:12 ok, really gotta get to bed Nov 11 11:00:19 im sick and need my sleep lol Nov 11 11:00:24 nite Nov 11 11:00:26 gn Nov 11 11:00:28 night Nov 11 11:01:33 night Nov 11 11:02:10 i wonder if it's the sdcard or the controller that's fuct Nov 11 11:02:31 or the card Nov 11 11:02:37 er Nov 11 11:02:39 yeah Nov 11 11:02:52 unplugging without an unmount might cause problems as well Nov 11 11:02:52 or even the controller Nov 11 11:02:58 hm Nov 11 11:03:04 fortunately replacing the sdcard is cheap Nov 11 11:11:50 lala Nov 11 11:12:15 25 ratings... 10 downloads Nov 11 11:12:16 lol Nov 11 11:13:37 * spikebike goes for a dogwalk Nov 11 11:13:42 with the g1 of course Nov 11 11:13:59 probably mostly spend it in the market Nov 11 11:16:35 i'm trying to make a symlink to busybox cp Nov 11 11:16:41 cp: cannot remove 'cp' : No such file or directory Nov 11 11:16:45 but it says that Nov 11 11:17:08 what am i doing wrong? Nov 11 11:17:40 it worked fine before updating to rc30 Nov 11 11:18:06 here goes nothing...installing modified rc30... Nov 11 11:18:17 good luck Nov 11 11:18:18 Neverender1: you need to renstall busybox Nov 11 11:18:30 and the symbolic links you made Nov 11 11:18:37 or check them at least Nov 11 11:19:01 why? Nov 11 11:19:11 i have busybox installed Nov 11 11:19:24 symbolic links should be gone of course Nov 11 11:19:38 thats what i'm trying to do Nov 11 11:19:44 get back my symlinks Nov 11 11:19:54 but the modified rc30 comes with busybox Nov 11 11:21:02 yeah i dunno just a suggestion Nov 11 11:21:07 ok Nov 11 11:21:30 the first symlink you need to type busybox cp and not just cp Nov 11 11:21:48 yeah Nov 11 11:21:51 i know Nov 11 11:21:54 man i hope this works i don't like bricks Nov 11 11:22:11 yeah i did mine last night Nov 11 11:22:14 its scary Nov 11 11:29:50 goodnight Nov 11 11:31:15 hmm Nov 11 11:31:24 so no telnetd in rc30? Nov 11 11:41:03 su: must be suid to work properly Nov 11 11:41:08 what's this mean exactly? Nov 11 11:46:00 hi, I'm wondering where in Manhattan you can buy a htc g1 running android without carrier and how much they cost, anyone knows? Nov 11 11:46:31 ronr: why do you want g1 without carrier **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 11 11:48:39 2008 Nov 11 11:49:13 AWESOME <3 webview Nov 11 11:49:28 there is sooooo much magic you can do with it 6.^ Nov 11 11:49:29 blau: it's just a phone right? and g3 internet? afaik the only reason it's not here yet is cause they want to translate it first (like I would want a forced translation :S ) Nov 11 11:49:30 *^.^ Nov 11 11:58:49 hi, I'm wondering where in Manhattan you can buy a htc g1 running android without carrier and how much they cost, anyone knows? Nov 11 11:59:12 you buy it with 2yr contract, then cancel the contract, and pay the $200 fee. boom, you have a g1 Nov 11 11:59:26 <`vip_> OR pay the full retail Nov 11 11:59:34 it's cheaper my way Nov 11 11:59:37 <`vip_> like i did so i didnt extend my contract Nov 11 11:59:43 <`vip_> not by much Nov 11 11:59:50 no, but I'm cheap Nov 11 11:59:53 <`vip_> but true Nov 11 12:00:24 ronr: i believe tmobile 3g uses a diff frequency than other carriers Nov 11 12:00:30 or maybe its that att 3g is over here Nov 11 12:00:44 I don't mind extending the contract, because if I decide to get out of it, as they now use graduated fees.. I may pay less than $200 to dump it. then I would have just paid less overall for the g1 Nov 11 12:01:09 WTF google!? Why is there a cpatcha in Android when creating a new account on the G1?.. and why is the captcha totally unreadable? :P Nov 11 12:01:30 haha there is? Nov 11 12:01:31 lol Nov 11 12:01:39 I just used an existing gmail account Nov 11 12:01:50 never went through the creation process on the phone Nov 11 12:02:09 actually, I used a GAFYD account Nov 11 12:02:30 it's not like there are that many bots creating accounts on the G1's (this screen is only displayed once when you activate your phone..) Nov 11 12:02:52 ..not talkiang about the completely unreadable captcha image :P Nov 11 12:02:57 'eh, it connects via a web service prolly Nov 11 12:03:09 ...and I entered it wrong.. Nov 11 12:03:11 so they don't want someone botting it up Nov 11 12:04:13 yeah.. succeeded on the second time.. (just guessed two of the characters.. didn't really see them:P) Nov 11 12:04:39 it's just funny to see that on a phone ;) Nov 11 12:10:28 hmm.wanted to download iskoot from the market but I can't find it.. Nov 11 12:10:51 <`vip_> it was on top for me Nov 11 12:10:52 also connectbot Nov 11 12:10:55 <`vip_> on the featured apps Nov 11 12:11:12 blau: hmm... I already got t-mobile 3g here, but that's likely to be a different 3g than t-mobile usa? Nov 11 12:11:14 it's not there.. and searching for "iskoot" or "connectbot" turns up nothing Nov 11 12:11:27 <`vip_> Connect Bot is the first one in Communication Nov 11 12:11:35 <`vip_> looking at it now Nov 11 12:11:52 by popularity? Nov 11 12:11:57 <`vip_> yes Nov 11 12:12:05 for me the first is "Maverick" Nov 11 12:12:21 <`vip_> weird Nov 11 12:12:50 <`vip_> also iSkoot is second Nov 11 12:12:56 <`vip_> under Communication Nov 11 12:12:57 <`vip_> for Skype, right ? Nov 11 12:13:02 nope.. not there.. Nov 11 12:13:09 <`vip_> crazy Nov 11 12:13:18 <`vip_> ConnectBot has 4 1/2 stars Nov 11 12:13:25 <`vip_> iSkoot has 3 1/2 Nov 11 12:13:29 maverick, meebo IM, twidroidk-9 mail etc.. but no connectbot nor iskoot :/ Nov 11 12:13:36 <`vip_> Maverick is 3rd Nov 11 12:13:44 <`vip_> thats weird Nov 11 12:13:58 <`vip_> IM+ is 4th for me Nov 11 12:14:34 are we talking about the same market here?:P I don't have IM+ either.. Nov 11 12:14:56 <`vip_> haha Nov 11 12:15:03 <`vip_> pull my menu up and go to market Nov 11 12:15:08 <`vip_> lil bag with android on it Nov 11 12:15:10 <`vip_> :P Nov 11 12:15:14 yeah, thats the one Nov 11 12:15:21 then applications-> communications Nov 11 12:15:22 <`vip_> Click Applications > Communication Nov 11 12:15:24 <`vip_> and there they are Nov 11 12:15:32 nope.. they are not :D Nov 11 12:16:42 bbiab Nov 11 12:16:47 err Nov 11 12:16:49 :/ Nov 11 12:17:30 <`vip_> tauno, try restarting phone :l Nov 11 12:17:33 <`vip_> then reload market Nov 11 12:17:39 <`vip_> only thing i can think of Nov 11 12:17:45 <`vip_> we should be seeing the same things Nov 11 12:18:20 tauno, are you in the .uk (or just not in the usa?) Nov 11 12:18:30 i'm in .ee Nov 11 12:18:33 ah Nov 11 12:18:54 apps are country based? Nov 11 12:18:54 well, it seems certain apps only go to certain regions in the market Nov 11 12:18:59 they can be yes Nov 11 12:19:06 oh crap.. Nov 11 12:19:11 sry Nov 11 12:19:47 though I'm suprised you don't get iskoot Nov 11 12:19:58 and i guess connectbot because of the ssh encryption Nov 11 12:19:59 <`vip_> that's shitty :x Nov 11 12:20:12 though may just be an oversight Nov 11 12:20:15 dunno Nov 11 12:20:34 wonder if I get a freaking UK tmo SIM, if my connection is routed through tmo's server before it reaches the market? Nov 11 12:21:12 dunno if it's the device or the sim Nov 11 12:21:22 or where your data's coming from (ip) Nov 11 12:21:23 languish, how is encryption stoping app availability? it's developed in a country from where you don't get to export encryption enabled apps? Nov 11 12:21:25 tauno: connectbot is available from the googlecode page Nov 11 12:22:02 tauno, yeah, the USA forbids certain encryption exportation. but I have no idea if what's in connectbot applies or not Nov 11 12:22:14 strange world we live in.. Nov 11 12:22:21 tauno: also, for people publishing in market, google gives us three options right now (us, uk, and auto-accept to any new countries) Nov 11 12:22:26 but as umdk1d3 says, you can download it directly Nov 11 12:22:34 it might be that some apps dont have the "auto-accept" checked for their apps Nov 11 12:22:54 and your country (ee) might fall into that "auto-accept" arena for now Nov 11 12:22:55 ok.. then I only need to get iSkoot (and probably some other apps that I don't remeber now) somehow :/ Nov 11 12:23:25 make the list, contact the devs Nov 11 12:24:02 umdk1d3, good to know :) Nov 11 12:25:16 I also want IM+.. oh welll.. Nov 11 12:33:01 hey anyone got a good understanding of the GPL? Nov 11 12:33:10 if I use this code, what do I have to do? http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/source/browse/trunk/connectbot/src/org/connectbot/util/UpdateHelper.java?r=82 Nov 11 12:33:55 oh and there you go connect bot source code, go dl it and buld it yourself if its not your countries market :) Nov 11 12:34:19 or he can just d/l the .apk Nov 11 12:34:31 since they make it available Nov 11 12:35:39 oh that too Nov 11 12:41:17 I'll do that.. I'm afraid I woun't be having that much luck with some other apps :/ Nov 11 12:42:23 tauno, make the list of apps you can't get. put them on a blog post somewhere, explaining your situation, and email the devs for those apps Nov 11 12:42:40 some may not want to help you out, some might. Nov 11 12:43:19 it may be as simple as them publishing an update with as umdk1d3 explained, the new country auto-accept flag enabled Nov 11 12:43:34 others, may have region specific issues Nov 11 12:47:24 for the ssh case, i think we resolved that there was an exemption for opensource software Nov 11 12:47:37 *for the crypto export regulations Nov 11 12:50:43 umdk1d3, cool Nov 11 12:53:26 there is...it's called the 1st amendment. as if crypto was a munition ..pleaase. I have 0 respekt for anyone who would claim it was. Nov 11 12:53:34 "He's shooting cryptos at me! Waah" Nov 11 12:53:57 heh Nov 11 12:54:11 sad thing is, good crypto is pretty much everywhere Nov 11 12:54:35 every bank, every atm machine, ever credit card company, every cable company, etc. Nov 11 12:54:50 not like the terrorist can't get a copy. Nov 11 12:55:08 besides if you are really serious you can switch to a one time pad Nov 11 12:55:17 seems just insnae these days Nov 11 12:55:31 especially since it's having just the opposite effect Nov 11 12:55:42 most of the development is moving outside the usa Nov 11 12:57:07 oh.. that's becasue of the terrorists? :D I always wondered why such restrictions apply in the USA.. considering the fact that USA is not leading in any way in cryptography.. the rest of the world has the exact same stuff anyway.. so why the restriction that you can't export software Nov 11 12:58:00 hi Nov 11 12:58:08 i think we are preaching to the choir fellahs Nov 11 12:58:25 can one make video calls with the g1? Nov 11 12:59:14 I guess not.. it doesn't have a camera on the front side Nov 11 12:59:15 dcordes, I think thats in the cards but the Video recorder classes arent working yet. Nov 11 13:17:02 exit Nov 11 13:21:06 stupid emulator cant seem to resolve hostnames grr Nov 11 13:29:33 is the g1 camera using v4l2 ? Nov 11 13:43:13 hi tmzt =) Nov 11 13:51:19 DarkriftX: Nov 11 13:51:21 WHERE ARE YOU Nov 11 13:51:27 Does anyone of you have any advice on a good SMS provider? (I need a simple API to send SMS'es from my application) Nov 11 13:51:36 (from the server-side, that is) Nov 11 14:05:59 hey yakischloba Nov 11 14:06:02 you have work today? Nov 11 14:06:52 new version of dgmoney released Nov 11 14:09:36 packet_video question: is there any shortcut to add the open core library to android emulator image Nov 11 14:09:46 yes sir Nov 11 14:10:01 i am at work at this time...just changing clothes, got hosed on the way in.. Nov 11 14:10:55 i just got a house a mile from work..i get to sleep in an extra hour every day soon :) Nov 11 14:10:55 should I modify the top level makefile ? Nov 11 14:12:00 that sucks that you have to work today Nov 11 14:15:25 ah its a holiday isnt it? Nov 11 14:15:37 yes Nov 11 14:15:40 Veterans day Nov 11 14:15:41 in tha US, what's the last app you guys have in the market via all apps, by date? Nov 11 14:16:38 languish, you mean oldest or newest? Nov 11 14:16:46 newest Nov 11 14:17:03 I show "A7 SMS" Nov 11 14:17:08 heh sorry, i chose my words porly Nov 11 14:17:08 yeah, same Nov 11 14:17:12 *poorly Nov 11 14:17:13 same Nov 11 14:17:19 ok, thanks guys Nov 11 14:17:30 why? you can't leave us hangning Nov 11 14:17:32 hanging* Nov 11 14:17:42 market apps having connectivity issues, but it does seem to be updating Nov 11 14:17:49 for me. Nov 11 14:17:49 * andyross awaits evidence of the conspiracy we all know is happening... Nov 11 14:17:51 Dougie187, yeah, there is no accommodation for holidays. I get 6 days off in a row surrounding either christmas or new years though Nov 11 14:18:07 thats pretty sweet Nov 11 14:18:09 andyross, ? Nov 11 14:18:19 A joke. Nov 11 14:18:21 my wife works for the college i go to, and she gets from december 24th to january 5th off. Nov 11 14:18:21 yeah. I think I would rather have that, than the other days Nov 11 14:18:26 ahh nice Nov 11 14:18:26 gonna hook it up to netcat and compare with wife's tonight Nov 11 14:18:43 she basically gets all the days students get off. Nov 11 14:18:57 also she gets 1 personal day a year, and 1 vacation day and 1 sick day a month Nov 11 14:19:10 er.. maybe its two.. Nov 11 14:20:19 sorry I asked this before but my irc client is odd Nov 11 14:20:37 and Ic an't read scrollback Nov 11 14:20:52 is the g1 camera using v4l2 ? Nov 11 14:22:34 dcordes, I'm not sure, but you could grab the source and look, I suppose Nov 11 14:23:02 so whats the status of android on touch.HD? Nov 11 14:24:45 Anyone know why network latencies on the G1 are so high? Local wifi connection times with ping or traceroute are routinely 40-100ms, which is only a tiny bit slower than packets over the UMTS network. Nov 11 14:29:25 is this G2 a fake? http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1433/g1g2th6.jpg Nov 11 14:29:59 fariseo: it's just a fan mockup Nov 11 14:30:01 fake Nov 11 14:30:12 fariseo: Would T-Mobile run an ad claiming "less dead space" about a device they're currently pushing heavily? :) Nov 11 14:31:15 Basically, the author wants more widgets (sane) and a gargantuan screen (insane, unless you make the phone body out of a carbon fiber composite) Nov 11 14:31:16 am I the only one that wouldn't want that "GII" ? Nov 11 14:31:53 ok, and what about htc touch HD? Nov 11 14:31:55 it's probably a FAQ, but is there any ETA for third-party widgets? Nov 11 14:32:40 They were discussing it yesterday. Apparently there is an API in the works for the next big update (I think that was the upshot). The issue is that the SurfaceFlinger apparently doesn't have a security model that can handle user apps drawing into foreign windows. Nov 11 14:35:21 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7722367.stm Nov 11 14:35:27 andyross: thanks Nov 11 14:48:53 seems there is a desire for CDMA in android Nov 11 14:48:57 * Damm shudders Nov 11 14:49:03 it's too bad CDMA will be gone in 2-3years Nov 11 14:53:06 why would people want Android on a CDMA network? Nov 11 14:53:25 KNY, why wouldn't they? Nov 11 14:53:26 who still runs them? Verizon and Sprint/Nextel? What use would Android be on Verizon's network? Nov 11 14:53:34 Sprint, Verizon Nov 11 14:53:40 and some small carriers Nov 11 14:53:48 I belive there's still some CDMA in Korea Nov 11 15:00:55 KNY: Sprint is in the OHA Nov 11 15:01:13 zhobbs, ah Nov 11 15:01:54 zhobbs, and yet they say android is immature. Nov 11 15:02:24 Damm: so if they are in OHA, they are - in theory - trying to do something about that Nov 11 15:03:38 Leeds, quite. Having a GSM/HSxPA + CDMA 2000 Platform is quite handy. Nov 11 15:09:32 got an US tmo SIM card.. hope it doesn't start downloading updates behind my back when I start the phone.. the roaming charges are insane anyway (have to use it to try to download stuff that's available only for US markets :/) Nov 11 15:10:23 <`vip> haha crazy Nov 11 15:12:15 ..now I only figure out hte apn settings that I have to use.. Nov 11 15:12:38 "only" Nov 11 15:13:48 is there an APN that you, US-TMO-dudes use as a standard? :) Nov 11 15:19:25 hmm.. can't register the SIM on the network.. it just shows no network connection. The same US tmo SIM card works on a random nokia device but G1 shows just no network connection Nov 11 15:20:43 im gonna make all my software nagware Nov 11 15:20:43 bah Nov 11 15:21:17 nag nag nag Nov 11 15:21:22 is there a unique identifier for a phone? Nov 11 15:21:48 or a way to get someones gmail Nov 11 15:21:48 that would be unique enough for me Nov 11 15:22:12 tauno: The APNs specified on my phone are epc.tmobile.com for all the US entries Nov 11 15:29:21 blau: the wireless has a MAC ADDR Nov 11 15:29:37 blau, ANDROID_ID Nov 11 15:29:48 but what about if you dont have a wifi card? Nov 11 15:30:08 http://www.factory-h.com/blog/?p=47 Nov 11 15:31:20 blau: you can used getDeviceId() from the TelephonyManager, http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/TelephonyManager.html#getDeviceId() Nov 11 15:31:24 thatll work, although now i think id prefer to have the users gmail addy Nov 11 15:31:27 can the G1 hold a 32GB sdhc card? Nov 11 15:33:09 blau, as a user, I'd rather give someone a pseudo-random 64-bit hex string than my gmail address Nov 11 15:33:35 michaelnovakjr: I believe so, but I haven't tried it :-) Nov 11 15:33:57 Leeds: i'd get one if it wasn't the same price as the phone was :) Nov 11 15:34:16 I'm on a 4GB card for now - I'll upgrade as the price drops Nov 11 15:34:47 16GB for $30 Nov 11 15:34:51 that's what i'm getting Nov 11 15:36:20 michaelnovakjr, how's that IRC client coming? Nov 11 15:36:27 good good Nov 11 15:36:39 you can get 32gb sdhc cards? cool. Nov 11 15:36:54 taviso, http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010070068%201053325335&name=32GB Nov 11 15:37:00 yea Nov 11 15:37:07 oh, that's not just SD, but yeah Nov 11 15:37:17 wow nice, i need one :-) Nov 11 15:37:48 does g1 support such a big sd card? Nov 11 15:38:03 called sdhc cards , or am i wrong Nov 11 15:38:06 that was my question Nov 11 15:38:13 cutmasta: some of us in the office have 16gb cards, they work fine Nov 11 15:38:14 microsdhc Nov 11 15:38:24 cool Nov 11 15:38:37 damn, you can get 8GB cards for $20 USD? man... Nov 11 15:39:10 remember, *not* SDHC, microSDHC, which is more expensive Nov 11 15:39:17 yes Nov 11 15:39:20 sure Nov 11 15:39:24 because it's freaking *tiny* :-D Nov 11 15:39:26 i meant micro ones Nov 11 15:39:27 KNY: I spent 40 on mine... darn Nov 11 15:39:28 yep Nov 11 15:39:29 Leeds, yeah, I realized that after I sent the link Nov 11 15:39:42 ITechJun1ie, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134795 Nov 11 15:39:48 they are the size of a little finger-nail Nov 11 15:39:56 KNY: thx Nov 11 15:40:01 it's insane that you can get 32GB on one Nov 11 15:40:07 Leeds, yeah, every time I set one on my desk, I'm scared it'll just blow away Nov 11 15:40:12 gotta keep it in the adapter Nov 11 15:40:20 I'm afraid I'll inhale one on accident. :( Nov 11 15:41:34 god, I hate newegg Nov 11 15:41:42 they make buying too easy :( Nov 11 15:42:18 haha Nov 11 15:42:30 not when you're broke Nov 11 15:42:37 heh Nov 11 15:43:17 ... my SN is spelt weird. Nov 11 15:43:31 supposed to be ITechJunkie Nov 11 15:43:49 can i fix that somehow? Im wondering how it did that Nov 11 15:44:19 type /nick newnick Nov 11 15:44:57 I can make it plural but I can't use "ITechJunkie" Nov 11 15:45:21 I know that it's registered under me... am i logged in somewhere else or something? Nov 11 15:45:31 you probably have a ghost Nov 11 15:45:40 vol, thanks Nov 11 15:45:42 KNY: how do i fix that? Nov 11 15:45:42 yeah, ITechJunkie is from your same IP Nov 11 15:45:44 /who ITechJunkie Nov 11 15:45:59 /ns ghost ITechJunkie Nov 11 15:46:06 ..got the apps finally downloaded using an at&t US SIM card.. tmo's US sim card was not working Nov 11 15:46:21 now I'll wait for the roaming charges :P Nov 11 15:46:35 hmmm still not working... be right back Nov 11 15:46:45 using 3g and roaming is a really quick way to make huge bills I guess :/ Nov 11 15:46:46 tauno: take it with a grain of salt, I'm not sure what it will do for you. Nov 11 15:48:02 I fixed it Nov 11 15:48:26 I'm obviously still trying to get the hang of this irc stuff Nov 11 15:48:28 lol Nov 11 15:48:46 ;_ Nov 11 15:48:50 tauno: what sort of apps are you talking about? Nov 11 15:49:54 does anybody know where settings.db gets created in Android file system/ Nov 11 15:52:05 I already have debian installed on android but I have a couple of more questions. Can anyone help me with getting a script or something built to where it will automatically mount and set the enviornmenal variables? Nov 11 15:52:36 What would be the best way to go about that? Nov 11 15:53:01 dd94300: /data/data/com.android.providers.settings/databases/settings.db Nov 11 15:53:10 hey wtf, could someone give me the link to the repository for the eclipse plugin? Nov 11 15:53:14 i found it and added it Nov 11 15:53:15 https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ Nov 11 15:53:18 but it gives me an error Nov 11 15:53:26 don't use https Nov 11 15:53:31 try just http Nov 11 15:53:36 thats what I had to do Nov 11 15:54:10 thanks mikez5 Nov 11 16:03:30 Sigh. Still having a bit of trouble with shared libraries Nov 11 16:03:51 especially annoyed at gdb for not letting me specify shared libs in particular to load Nov 11 16:04:09 it seems like I can debug a statically linked executable, by pointing it to the executable. Nov 11 16:05:02 unfortunately, I can't load the shared libs it uses any other way except to point it to the executable, which doesn't help as much for jni Nov 11 16:13:00 just curious: Is it possible to install non-market apps? Nov 11 16:13:10 savid: yea Nov 11 16:13:16 savid: absolutely : ) Nov 11 16:13:27 ah, good :) Nov 11 16:13:29 you can install by adb Nov 11 16:13:40 you can even install by pointing your browser at an apk and downloading it, then opening it Nov 11 16:13:53 you DO have to check the "install apps from non-market sources" option to do that though Nov 11 16:13:58 that's great :) Nov 11 16:14:07 there's also a handy program out on the market that lets you install apks from your sd card Nov 11 16:14:12 there is? Nov 11 16:14:16 that's sort of the whole point... Nov 11 16:14:26 excellent. Nov 11 16:14:44 vol: yeah "Apps Installer" Nov 11 16:14:51 does it involve more than "copy apk to local dir, start apk" ? Nov 11 16:15:28 vol: Dunno. I'm assumng that it's a pretty basic app. It doesn't install the apk to your sdcard. Nov 11 16:16:10 vol: so probably not Nov 11 16:16:30 I'm basically weighing pros and cons of getting a G1. The things I don't like mainly have to do w/ the way the keyboard works (eg, having to flip out the keyboard to get landscape mode).. not sure how much that'll get on my nerves Nov 11 16:16:58 savid: yeah, I was bummed about that too. But in the end i was happy i got one Nov 11 16:17:07 I'm wondering if I should wait until the next android phone comes out Nov 11 16:17:45 savid: Or you could port android on to one of the phones that will work with it... ie, HTC vogue Nov 11 16:18:14 heh Nov 11 16:18:27 savid: have you gone to a t-mobile store, and tried the floor model (if they have one) Nov 11 16:19:17 vol, yeah a couple times :) Nov 11 16:19:34 savid: rub it on your crotch Nov 11 16:19:37 does it feel good? Nov 11 16:19:40 if so, buy immediately Nov 11 16:19:47 Has anyone gotton Five or Orb to work? I'm dying to figure out how to get it streaming video Nov 11 16:19:54 vol: thats what I did Nov 11 16:20:16 * savid is speachless Nov 11 16:20:34 five works, but doesn't stream video Nov 11 16:21:17 michaelnovakjr: yeah I know... i'm having trouble installing it Nov 11 16:21:28 what's the issue? Nov 11 16:21:50 i'm at the step where you install libsyncml, i just used cmake and now I can't build it with make Nov 11 16:24:17 it's telling me that makefile found Nov 11 16:24:25 I'm basically weighing pros and cons of getting a G1. The things I don't like mainly have to do w/ the way the keyboard works (eg, having to flip out the keyboard to get landscape mode).. Nov 11 16:24:26 hm, one sec Nov 11 16:24:43 there's an app that lets you rotate the screen without opening the kbd Nov 11 16:24:54 not sure if it was anycut or some other Nov 11 16:24:58 * languish forgetful Nov 11 16:25:03 but it's out there Nov 11 16:25:07 languish: it was video app Nov 11 16:25:14 no, not the vid app Nov 11 16:25:17 languish, really? a third-party app can control that sort of thing? Nov 11 16:25:22 * ITechJunkie is pretty sure Nov 11 16:25:23 the browser can rotate without any help, and without flipping the keyboard Nov 11 16:25:44 ITechJunkie I'm talking about the desktop, not just an app that rotates Nov 11 16:25:51 languish: yeah. There's a command that you set in the android API Nov 11 16:25:56 Leeds, so the browser rotates w/ the accelerometer? Nov 11 16:26:08 stupidly, not... it's manual Nov 11 16:26:17 languish: oh. Yeah I like to figure that out too Nov 11 16:27:00 I shouldn't say stupidly... there is a very valid opinion that it's weird to be flipping the screen around as you move your phone in your hand - I do find myself waving my camera around to clear a mis-measured rotation Nov 11 16:27:11 I played with it for a couple of minutes before my last master reset, but it was 4am and I can't remember which app it was Nov 11 16:28:07 but yeah, someone figured it out and put it out there Nov 11 16:28:09 languish: bummer. So it makes all the apps sensitive to the accelerometer Nov 11 16:28:19 ? Nov 11 16:28:30 ITechJunkie, no.. it was manual. you hit shortcut and the screen rotated Nov 11 16:28:35 but no need to open the kbd Nov 11 16:28:41 oh Nov 11 16:29:24 think i'm gonna head home. not feeling so hot today Nov 11 16:29:39 bummer man Nov 11 16:29:43 get to feeling better Nov 11 16:30:01 ya, just glad I didn't have anything major on the schedule today. Nov 11 16:30:03 thanks Nov 11 16:30:05 bbl Nov 11 16:30:47 michaelnovakjr: any luck with five? Nov 11 16:30:56 sorry, one sec Nov 11 16:31:02 michaelnovakjr: no prob Nov 11 16:31:33 michaelnovakjr: i've followed the instructions in the INSTALL file word for word and it's just not working Nov 11 16:32:18 Leeds, so the browser does or does not rotate with the accelerometer? you said "the browser can rotate without any help, and without flipping the keyboard".. Nov 11 16:32:45 savid: you can go to the menu and press a button to change orientation Nov 11 16:32:54 savid: the browser has a button on its menu/toolbar to rotate it, which works without needing to flip out the keyboard... it doesn't rotate with the accelerometer Nov 11 16:33:08 oh Nov 11 16:37:16 of course, I guess if I wanted it to do that, I could theoretically modify the app to do so, right? :-) Nov 11 16:37:45 sure... in theory Nov 11 16:37:50 hehe Nov 11 16:38:05 assuming the app is open source Nov 11 16:38:33 it'd be even better some someone could modify the framework to include it to do that automatically or something Nov 11 16:39:10 the entire basic platform is open Nov 11 16:39:24 Leeds: ah Nov 11 16:40:42 Leeds: so does that mean you can unzip the apk's and modify them? Nov 11 16:40:43 ITechJunkie, I'm looking at the source code for Browser right now :-) Nov 11 16:40:58 ITechJunkie, I think you'd have to compile them from source Nov 11 16:41:17 savid: ooooh Nov 11 16:41:23 shoulda known Nov 11 16:43:38 Has anyone here installed Five yet? I'm having trouble making libsyncml Nov 11 16:45:45 nobody? Nov 11 16:47:28 I'll check Android-dev then I guess Nov 11 16:55:52 Aha, I think I've been going at this wrong. What process is launched to launch an apk? Nov 11 16:56:40 An android app is created by forking the zygote process. Nov 11 16:56:42 I wonder if there's something I can use the root exploit to run to enable the wifi before I activate this phone Nov 11 16:56:46 ITechJunkie: standby... i'm back... going to do a fresh build of it Nov 11 16:57:50 heyy, adbd Nov 11 16:58:14 am right? Nov 11 16:58:18 er oh Nov 11 16:58:20 zygote then Nov 11 17:02:22 Hey guys.... what's the command to get rid of ghosts? Nov 11 17:02:37 rm -rf ghosts? Nov 11 17:02:46 :-P Nov 11 17:02:48 /dev/scooby Nov 11 17:02:58 daaah Nov 11 17:02:59 insmod ghostbusters Nov 11 17:03:05 Hey guys I changed my google account and deleted old one, how do i change on Android phone without hard reset??? Nov 11 17:03:28 I've already tried all of those but I still can't get my SN back Nov 11 17:03:46 cat ghost > /dev/null didn't work either Nov 11 17:04:21 cat /dev/random /ghost Nov 11 17:04:23 er Nov 11 17:04:27 cat /dev/random > /ghost Nov 11 17:04:41 vol: whats that gunna do? Mutate it? Nov 11 17:05:04 mikez5: argh, I'm looking for the zygote process itself, but can't find it. Nov 11 17:05:13 is that included in the android source? Nov 11 17:06:30 actually, I can see it in /system/core/(include/|lib)cutils/ Nov 11 17:06:50 suhweet. That ghost didn't stand a chance Nov 11 17:07:46 vol: oh boy Nov 11 17:07:55 ITechJunkie: what part of the Five install is failing? Nov 11 17:08:02 vol: "am" can be used to ask the zygote process to do stuff Nov 11 17:08:15 fadden0: thanks Nov 11 17:08:20 michaelnovakjr: the part where i'm trying to build libsyncml Nov 11 17:08:24 There's also dalvik/dvz. Nov 11 17:08:35 ITechJunkie: can you pastebin the error output Nov 11 17:08:44 The zygote itself is actually a partially-started instance of dalvikvm. Nov 11 17:08:46 vol,zygote is launched by /system/bin/app_process. Nov 11 17:08:47 michaelnovakjr: it's telling me that it can't find the make file Nov 11 17:08:52 michaelnovakjr: sure man Nov 11 17:09:06 The idea is you have a VM process with lots of loaded classes that can simply fork(). Nov 11 17:09:12 Thanks Nov 11 17:09:19 The trouble with that idea is that, under Linux, only the current thread appears in the new process. Nov 11 17:09:42 So you can't start a full VM and then fork(). It has to come up part way, then go into "server mode", and fork() when somebody asks. Nov 11 17:09:46 michaelnovakjr: http://pastebin.com/d71690e67 Nov 11 17:09:57 After the fork, it finishes starting up, creating threads for finalizers, JDWP debugging, etc. Nov 11 17:10:13 fadden0: that's fine. i'm still trying to deal with remote debugging. It seems like I need the original process to get the debugger to figure out the shared libs Nov 11 17:10:26 and you ran cmake .. Nov 11 17:10:29 then again, I could be completely wrong. Nov 11 17:10:31 vol: if you're debugging an app, app_process is what you want Nov 11 17:10:35 alright Nov 11 17:10:50 michaelnovakjr: yeah one sec... Nov 11 17:10:50 ITechJunkie: and you ran the command "cmake .." from the build directory? Nov 11 17:11:03 The next bit of fun is that apps don't start from dalvikvm; they start from an embedded invocation of the VM (through the JNI invocation interface). Nov 11 17:11:06 I'm really considering just putting everything back into the vm and using that. it may be cluttered and kill my processing power, but at least I can run the emulator I just made... Nov 11 17:11:10 michaelnovakjr: http://pastebin.com/d4acf1844 Nov 11 17:11:15 that way executing gdb may work a bit more correctly Nov 11 17:11:28 michaelnovakjr: that's probably more descriptive. Something in my Cmake failed Nov 11 17:11:34 yes Nov 11 17:12:04 fadden0: I'm debugging an apk that calls a custom shared library Nov 11 17:12:14 ITechJunkie: cd to the libsyncml-0.4.6 directory and run "mkdir build" then run "cd build" then run "cmake .." Nov 11 17:12:35 I've managed to figure out how to get "hello segfault" to work a touch better Nov 11 17:12:38 michaelnovakjr: hey man... i've gotta run an errand. If you come up with anything would you mind emailing it to me at itechjunkie@gmail.com? I'll be back in about hour and a half Nov 11 17:12:57 michaelnovakjr: i've already done that man Nov 11 17:13:08 unfortunately, hello segfault doesn't come as a shared lib. Nov 11 17:13:09 your error says otherwise :) Nov 11 17:13:19 hmmm... okay one sec Nov 11 17:13:57 look at line 2 of that output Nov 11 17:14:13 vol: you can (a) build your own C app that starts with main(); (b) write a trivial bit of Java that calls loadLibrary() and doesn't use any Android features and just run it through dalvikvm, or (c) Nov 11 17:14:20 michaelnovakjr: http://pastebin.com/d6ada31b4 . I'll be back later Nov 11 17:14:24 fadden0: we're doing b Nov 11 17:14:26 do like you've been doing and run it through app_process. Nov 11 17:14:42 and using load() instead of loadLibrary() Nov 11 17:14:54 vol: that does work; I do most of my testing that way Nov 11 17:15:09 so what is the syntax of app_process? app_process packagename? Nov 11 17:15:19 vol: you don't use app_process, since that's tied into the app framework Nov 11 17:15:32 You run "dalvikvm MyClass" like you would on the desktop. Nov 11 17:16:36 out of a particular directory? Nov 11 17:16:56 (1) write java code, (2) javac MyClass.java, (3) dx --dex --output=stuff.zip MyClass.class, (4) adb push stuff.zip /sdcard, (5) dalvikvm -cp /sdcard/stuff.zip MyClass Nov 11 17:17:13 Ah, ok, sorry. Nov 11 17:18:08 If you did a "lunch 2" build, you can do all of the above on your desktop. Nov 11 17:18:30 (since there's no Android app stuff involved) Nov 11 17:18:43 mmph. Nov 11 17:19:06 (just skip step 4) Nov 11 17:21:19 And, since I'm terminally brain damaged, what's the format for apks? if I have class Foo in package com.bar.baz, in com.bar.baz.apk, I'm trying "dalvikvm -cp /data/app/com.bar.baz.apk com.bar.baz.Foo" Nov 11 17:21:58 did the android team evaluate other devices before going with the HTC dream? Nov 11 17:22:05 That ought to work. If it's not working, watch the output of "logcat" Nov 11 17:22:39 (assuming /data/app/com.bar.baz.apk is a readable file) Nov 11 17:22:53 yes, well, I installed a "hello world" apk to do some other testing with Nov 11 17:23:00 If you do ifconfig on your G1 device, does it show tiwlan0? Nov 11 17:23:01 it's in com.android.deleteme.apk Nov 11 17:23:12 in /data/app Nov 11 17:23:38 You're on an emulator, right? (just want to make sure there's no permission issues) Nov 11 17:23:43 so I'm trying "dalvikvm -cp /data/app/com.android.deleteme.apk com.android.deleteme.Deleteme" Nov 11 17:23:47 yes, on the emulator Nov 11 17:24:12 logcat gives not a lot of useful information Nov 11 17:24:13 What do you see? Nov 11 17:24:24 private-message it to me Nov 11 17:24:28 the same as if I put in gibberish for args Nov 11 17:24:28 ok Nov 11 17:27:20 Hey guys I changed my google account and deleted old one, how do i change on Android phone without hard reset? Nov 11 17:29:21 I created a custom view for my listview, but I have to click on certain "spots" (such as the text) for it to register the click event. Any ideas? Nov 11 17:31:46 famast1: without knowing how you created your custom view, no Nov 11 17:32:03 unless I misunderstand you and you *want* the user to click certain spots Nov 11 17:32:16 (which is not a great idea given the size of a regular finger) Nov 11 17:32:18 nah, he just needs to click somewhere on the list item Nov 11 17:32:58 What is the "service call ..." stuff? Nov 11 17:33:13 kRutOn: can you be more specific? Nov 11 17:33:18 kRutOn: it can be used to invoke binder commands from the shell Nov 11 17:33:31 that's what HierarchyViewer uses for instance to start the ViewServer on the phone Nov 11 17:34:43 you would think that clicking anywhere on the listview would register a click event regardless of the view setup inside it Nov 11 17:35:01 famast1: again, without knowing how you created your custom view, I can't help you Nov 11 17:35:22 ok just a sec, I'm going to keep playing Nov 11 17:35:49 why don't you instead describe your custom view to him? Nov 11 17:37:02 i suppose I can do that too, I have something like this Nov 11 17:38:12 Nov 11 17:38:47 is any of these views focusable? Nov 11 17:39:08 none of them have a focusable attribute set Nov 11 17:39:29 and using the trackball the entire row can be selected and clicked? Nov 11 17:39:43 it selects about half the row Nov 11 17:39:48 (the row with content) Nov 11 17:40:00 but i have fill_parent on all my layout widths Nov 11 17:40:07 is your outer-most linearlayout width=fill_parent? Nov 11 17:40:17 yes Nov 11 17:40:47 my text views also have a width of fill_parent Nov 11 17:41:09 it selects half the row? Nov 11 17:41:14 can you paste your XML somewhere? Nov 11 17:41:17 it highlights half the row I should say Nov 11 17:41:20 (oops, that's my shuttle stop) Nov 11 17:41:37 shuttle stop? Nov 11 17:41:47 I'm in the shuttle Nov 11 17:41:49 going to work Nov 11 17:41:54 ah ok, well thank you for the help Nov 11 17:42:02 I'll be online in a few minutes Nov 11 17:42:05 ok thanks Nov 11 17:42:10 famast1: i think i know what your problem is Nov 11 17:42:21 can you show me how you are inflating your view from XML? Nov 11 17:43:09 i suspect that you extend LinearLayout, and are inflating a LinearLayout containing a LinearLayout. This way, your outer-most LinearLayout is "this" in the context of the custom view and you need to set its layout parameters in code Nov 11 17:43:55 sure just a sec Nov 11 17:44:37 convertView = mInflater.inflate(R.layout.episode_item, null); Nov 11 17:44:54 so you didn't really create a custom view? Nov 11 17:45:08 yea I guess I didn't mean custom view, whoops Nov 11 17:45:23 custom in the sense that its not anything like list_item_1 view Nov 11 17:45:32 creating a custom view involves making a new class extending View (or one of its subclasses) that can be used in other XML layout files as Nov 11 17:45:44 yea I did not extend any view classes Nov 11 17:45:46 simply making an inflating an XML layout is not a custom view. Nov 11 17:45:49 re Nov 11 17:48:04 famast1: i doubt this relates to your problem, but why are you calling inflate yourself? use a SimpleAdapter or SimpleCursorAdapter unless your needs are very particular Nov 11 17:48:59 anyway, it does seem to me that you are not using android:layout_width="fill_parent" on the outer-most view. can you please show the contents of the episode_item.xml? Nov 11 17:49:46 jasta: I have logic in the adapter that makes changes to the the text Nov 11 17:50:32 that doesnt mean you shouldnt use a SimpleAdapter/SimpleCursorAdapter Nov 11 17:50:36 you would then just use a ViewBinder Nov 11 17:50:57 jasta: at this point using a custom adapter is just fine Nov 11 17:51:28 SimpleAdapter/SimpleCursorAdapter are merely conveniences, not necessarily the recommended way to do it Nov 11 17:51:36 romainguy: this discussion is the same as one we've had before. i know that it's fine, but i'm betting he's new and should be using simpler classes for now :) Nov 11 17:51:54 well apparently he knows how to use an Adapter already Nov 11 17:52:32 meh, probably. famast1 just show us episode_item.xml please. Nov 11 17:53:18 yes I'm working on posting it, I want to make sure its nothing being done in the adapter that is messing this up first. No point in wasting both yours and romainguy's time Nov 11 17:57:27 here we are: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhr6zg5v_39cq9fvsd9 Nov 11 18:06:05 famast1: fyi, when using layout_weight, there is a special optimization available if you set the weighted dimension to 0px Nov 11 18:06:11 in this case, the weighted dimension is width. Nov 11 18:06:41 fill_parent with weight=1 is probably v. suspect Nov 11 18:06:55 it is suspect :)) Nov 11 18:08:06 google docs as your own personal pastebin...nice. Nov 11 18:08:25 wish the url structure was a little cleaner. Nov 11 18:12:21 jasta: thanks for the tip. I'm not sure why I have the weight there anyhow for this particular case. Nov 11 18:13:00 famast1: weight is probably what you want. Nov 11 18:13:03 famast1: I think you need the weight but not the fll parent Nov 11 18:13:09 *fill Nov 11 18:14:03 grr to gears of war Nov 11 18:14:03 tomigibara: I removed the weight (but not fill_parent), same problem. I'll try the other way around. I think the weight was an artifact from copying and pasting from another view Nov 11 18:14:04 michaelnovakjr_: u awake? Nov 11 18:14:18 spikebike: how did rc30 go last night? Nov 11 18:15:28 famast1: the inner LinearLayout needs to leave space for its adjacent image, so it doesn't want to fill_parent Nov 11 18:18:08 sfuentes: up Nov 11 18:18:09 changed my height and width to wrap_content, kept the weight.. no luck Nov 11 18:19:56 michaelnovakjr: those android screenshots are from a previous emulator version, right? those at: http://code.google.com/p/android-random/wiki/Messages Nov 11 18:20:17 woo Nov 11 18:20:21 yes Nov 11 18:20:31 good old M5 Nov 11 18:20:37 :) Nov 11 18:20:54 but I think you guys are on the right track, because I changed the layout_width to 500dip and it expanded so that it works wherever I click Nov 11 18:21:06 famast1: can you show your udpated layout file ? Nov 11 18:21:13 the one that works? Nov 11 18:21:19 no Nov 11 18:21:22 ok Nov 11 18:21:24 the one before that :) Nov 11 18:21:26 the one that doesn't, yes Nov 11 18:21:32 geez.. finally Nov 11 18:21:41 looking at your first layout it looks like all you need is change a fill_parent to wrap_content Nov 11 18:21:46 er to 0dip Nov 11 18:22:13 http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhr6zg5v_40hm37s2f9 Nov 11 18:22:34 0dip on which element? Nov 11 18:22:44 on the second LinearLayout Nov 11 18:22:46 on its width Nov 11 18:22:53 that should work Nov 11 18:23:00 that doesn't make it infinitely thin? Nov 11 18:23:07 no, because you have a weight of 1 Nov 11 18:23:55 ok i'm trying that Nov 11 18:24:16 why is there a requirement to have a T-Mobile SIM card with data service to activate the phone Nov 11 18:24:16 android:orientation="vertical" Nov 11 18:24:16 android:layout_width="0dip" Nov 11 18:24:16 android:layout_height="wrap_content" Nov 11 18:24:16 android:layout_weight="1"> Nov 11 18:24:21 sorry for that spam Nov 11 18:24:27 yep, that's correct Nov 11 18:24:29 that didn't work =( Nov 11 18:25:07 famast1: how do you inflate this in your code? Nov 11 18:25:19 * zewm_ is away.. autoaway/10m [lp!on] Nov 11 18:26:11 romainguy: I get a LayoutInflater via getLayoutInflater and then call inflate on it.. inflater.inflate(R.layout.podcast_item, null) Nov 11 18:26:30 try this instead: inflate(R.layout.podcast_item, parent, false); Nov 11 18:26:38 ok Nov 11 18:26:42 the parent should come from the getView() parameters Nov 11 18:31:14 romainguy: nope. inflated with the parent and my 2nd linear layout had a width of 0dip with a weight of 1. Nov 11 18:31:50 seems to make sense though to give it the parent so that it knows where to fill too Nov 11 18:31:51 then you're doing something weird I don't understand :) Nov 11 18:31:54 lol Nov 11 18:32:10 I must be! Nov 11 18:32:34 Someone remind me: isn't there a busybox subcommand which will automatically create the appropriate symlinks to itself somewhere? Nov 11 18:32:44 famast1: are you running this in the emulator? Nov 11 18:33:16 romainguy: yes, I have access to a g1, and while I didn't try this particular layout with the g1, I do recall having this issue with a different layout Nov 11 18:33:20 (using the g1) Nov 11 18:33:39 what I'm about to say doesn't work on your G1, only on the emulator Nov 11 18:33:45 ok Nov 11 18:33:48 so fire up your app, select a row that doesn't work Nov 11 18:33:56 then in the tools/ directory of the SDK, start hierarchyviewer Nov 11 18:34:02 in the app, select the emulator Nov 11 18:34:06 then click the "Load" button Nov 11 18:34:12 it will show you the layout of your app Nov 11 18:34:26 there you can check the bounds of all your items and see which one is not behaving (if any) Nov 11 18:35:00 oooo cool thanks, this is neat Nov 11 18:38:17 yea I see the hierarchy... I see the ListView boundry and the child LinearLayouts Nov 11 18:38:30 quite spiffy Nov 11 18:39:14 anyone know if one could hang objects off an application-wide context? Nov 11 18:39:17 andyross: 'install' Nov 11 18:39:44 Isn't that the standard /usr/bin/install though? Nov 11 18:39:59 mocsrox: You can extend Application and keep your global state there, that's what I tend to do. Nov 11 18:40:26 hi :) A query! The browser application is open on google maps (don't ask why) and doing a netstat from terminal window seems to tell me something is still connected to a google maps IP :) Nov 11 18:40:37 i guess the question is, how does one close background processes? Nov 11 18:40:41 tomgibara: hm interesting .. nothing supported default tho? Nov 11 18:40:56 i'm having a similar issue with the pintail app, it opens itself and seemingly THATS IT, its open, forever! :D Nov 11 18:41:05 im using the bundle to pass info between activities.. but its pretty restrictive Nov 11 18:43:03 mocsrox: there are a lot of ways you can communicate information. in particular, you should note that all ofyour activities by default run in the same process and thread. so, you can share information very easily with just a static field. Nov 11 18:44:04 jasta: .. that makes a lot of sense. thx Nov 11 18:44:07 i recommend using an intent for as much as is reasonable, however. Nov 11 18:44:34 intents are yummy. Nov 11 18:44:45 jasta: yea i currently do.. its just ... limited Nov 11 18:45:15 It needs to be limited because it needs to be persisted within a contrained context Nov 11 18:45:42 andyross: --install sorry Nov 11 18:45:46 http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/14/android-busybox Nov 11 18:45:48 That is something you need to be very concious of with global state: it can disappear independently of your activities Nov 11 18:45:52 romainguy: jasta: tomgibara: got it! Rather embarassing actually. My listview element had a wrap_content for the width Nov 11 18:46:08 lol Nov 11 18:46:26 tomgibara: could you elaborate a bit more? Nov 11 18:46:44 the thing is, the listview itself still fills the parent (at least it looks as if it does in the hierarchy viewer) Nov 11 18:46:58 thanks for your help thoug Nov 11 18:47:01 *though Nov 11 18:47:20 soooo not a G1 help channel i know! but yeah seriously background tasks on android, is there really no way to pick and choose which processes are running? Nov 11 18:47:32 mocsrox: When a process is killed, its activities may be restored using the saved bundled state and saved intent. There is no mechanism that will restore the Application state in a similar way Nov 11 18:47:36 SinJax: no Nov 11 18:47:40 aww :( Nov 11 18:47:45 Isn't there an app out there for that? Nov 11 18:47:56 famast1: havn't found one! Nov 11 18:47:56 apps cannot kill other processes Nov 11 18:48:03 tomgibara: ah gotcha Nov 11 18:48:07 oh maybe it was just a viewer Nov 11 18:48:10 romainguy: yes i would imagine that would be quite the security issue Nov 11 18:48:19 Jasta, I have a question for you man. You still around? Nov 11 18:48:22 ERROR/SOCKETLOG: add_recv_stats recv 0 Nov 11 18:48:24 what could that mean? Nov 11 18:48:24 however, how does one tell a process to stop being a bad boy and turn off Nov 11 18:48:33 you uninstall it Nov 11 18:48:34 SinJax: navigate away from it Nov 11 18:48:37 the browser for example, is just running away in the background atm on my phone :D Nov 11 18:48:52 vol: no...it seems somewhat connected and running in the background regardless of navigating away from it Nov 11 18:49:02 mocsrox: Your Application object will be recreated before any Activities however, but you won't generally get to persist its state before its destroyed. Nov 11 18:49:07 SinJax: the fact that the process is there doesn't mean the app is running Nov 11 18:49:12 applications on ANdroid have a lifecycle Nov 11 18:49:17 i see Nov 11 18:49:22 and they are paused/stopped when you navigate away from them Nov 11 18:49:23 romainguy: what if it runs a service in the background? Nov 11 18:49:25 SinJax: even though the process is there, android should tell it to stop doing stuff and release resources Nov 11 18:49:33 vol: a service is different :) Nov 11 18:49:43 tomgibara: yea i see what you mean .. Nov 11 18:49:43 whether it behaves or not is naother story, but if android really needs the memory it will just shut it down Nov 11 18:49:58 romainguy famast1: yes i see...however the issue is however that when i do a netstat the browser seems very much connected to an IP :D Nov 11 18:50:02 romainguy: it's a good question, though. Lets say a poorly coded service has just farted and is now trying to use as much CPU as possible Nov 11 18:50:02 and not disconnecting Nov 11 18:50:11 how do you go about kill it it? Nov 11 18:50:13 whats the connection status? Nov 11 18:50:14 i suppose this is just something wrong with the netstat on terminal emulator? Nov 11 18:50:16 SinJax: that doesn't mean it's doing anything with it Nov 11 18:50:28 vol: you uninstall it Nov 11 18:50:42 romainguy: seems like a rather extreme way to handle it : \ Nov 11 18:50:43 vol: you can also reboot in safe mode (during boot keep the Home key pressed, it will disable all 3rd party apps) Nov 11 18:50:51 SinJax: I actually have an idea to kill processes. Write a program that hogs a ton of memory, then android will be forced to close down other processes Nov 11 18:51:02 famast1: haha nice and efficient :D Nov 11 18:51:13 famast1: an app can use only 16 MB of RAM :) Nov 11 18:51:14 i mean it would be fine if i could just log in as root on the terminal emulator Nov 11 18:51:24 though the hack to do that has been patched, or so it would seem ;) Nov 11 18:51:36 :) Nov 11 18:52:31 i am confused though, google maps makes ajax calls persistently regardless of browser focus? Nov 11 18:52:32 romainguy: seriously??! arg! my plan is foiled! Is that a G1 thing or an android specification? Nov 11 18:52:33 does it not? Nov 11 18:52:44 does the G1 just stop all calls made by the browser when its not in focus or what? Nov 11 18:53:07 famast1: well on a phone with so little memory it makes sense :)) Nov 11 18:53:13 SinJax: I'm not familiar with how the browser apps program works, but there are services that can run even when the program is out of focus Nov 11 18:53:22 yep Nov 11 18:53:24 there are Nov 11 18:53:35 basically my question came about due to pintail Nov 11 18:53:47 which is an application which monitors texts, and performs an action on specific texts Nov 11 18:53:57 the issue was that there was actually no way to turn the damn thing off! Nov 11 18:54:07 it runs in the background and boots on reset! :D...had to uninstall it Nov 11 18:54:10 ahhh Nov 11 18:54:12 uninstall it? Nov 11 18:54:20 whcih is a shame! cus i want its functionality, but i don't want it on ALL the time :D Nov 11 18:54:21 SinJax: tomgibara here wrote it :) Nov 11 18:54:22 but then he will have to install it next time he wants to start it Nov 11 18:54:33 SinJax: but it doesn't do anything in the background Nov 11 18:54:36 now i realise this is something the application developer should allow for Nov 11 18:54:47 but they wouldn't need to if android allowed me to turn off processes manually Nov 11 18:55:13 romainguy: ah i see! sorry i was under the impression that it DID do something in the background, i assumed thats why it was still running Nov 11 18:55:29 only services run in the background Nov 11 18:55:40 SinJax: but it's not a desktop. you don't disable sercices. if you don't want something, you just get rid of it/! Nov 11 18:55:43 to make it boot up faster i assume? Nov 11 18:55:44 SinJax: like I said, because there's a process doesn't mean it's eating your CPU or chewing your bandwidth Nov 11 18:55:57 Android model is different from that of a desktop computer Nov 11 18:56:01 you don't close applications Nov 11 18:56:21 romainguy: so (to clarify) pintail doesn't run on incoming texts unless the pintail application is in the foreground? Nov 11 18:56:28 no Nov 11 18:56:29 all though it is hogging a PID Nov 11 18:56:31 it runs on incoming texts Nov 11 18:56:33 period Nov 11 18:56:57 otherwise, there would be very little point in using this app :) Nov 11 18:56:57 romainguy: heh ok! and the facility to control that behivour is to...uninstall it correct? Nov 11 18:56:58 SinJax: I have to disappear for half an hour, but Pintail should not run all the time. Nov 11 18:57:08 romainguy: but what do you do if it -is- eating cpu or bandwidth? Nov 11 18:57:17 SinJax: make your handler application a tiny stub that invokes an intent on the bigger codebase? Nov 11 18:57:19 you uninstall it because the app is buggy :) Nov 11 18:57:32 "reboot because the user can't be trusted by the security model" is not really the right answer Nov 11 18:57:32 its awesome coming in with a question and the dev starts answering your questions Nov 11 18:57:43 romainguy: ok. how do i uninstall google maps? Nov 11 18:57:44 wow PinTail is genius Nov 11 18:57:47 SinJax: why do you need to control it? the whole point of this app is to inspect your texts, if that's not what you want, you don't want the app Nov 11 18:58:09 Disconnect: why would you uninstall Google Maps? Nov 11 18:58:14 lol Nov 11 18:58:22 it's not running in the background Nov 11 18:58:25 romainguy: but thats the very thing. its not buggy. but i don't want it to just be running all the time :D. An example with pintail specifically is that i WANT to be found when im at work say...but i don't want to be found any other time Nov 11 18:58:36 does this mean i should change the pin? when i don't want to be found? Nov 11 18:58:49 SinJax: no, the dev should add an on/off switch. Nov 11 18:58:51 feels a little...clunky...wouldn't it be better if it could just be...turned off :D Nov 11 18:58:53 but the purpose of this app is not for you to be found Nov 11 18:58:56 romainguy: when i stop using it it still tends to try to grab gps and data for a while. your answer to that is "uninstall it". so how do i do that? Nov 11 18:58:58 pintail? Nov 11 18:59:01 yes it is :D Nov 11 18:59:09 Disconnect: define "a while" Nov 11 18:59:19 pintail = pinpoint? Nov 11 18:59:32 romainguy: any time at all that i don't want it to behave that way is too long. whether its 10 seconds or 10 hours. Nov 11 18:59:34 sorry....am i getting the name wrong? im sure its called pintail...sec Nov 11 18:59:42 Disconnect: define "a while" Nov 11 18:59:44 text it "locate XXXX" and it texts you back? Nov 11 18:59:45 SinJax: You can use Pintail to share your location if you share your pin. Nov 11 18:59:57 Disconnect: a few seconds might just be the time it actually takes to tear down everything Nov 11 19:00:01 SinJax, there used to be a program named pinpoint that someone in here wrote, it was awesome and sounded just like what you have Nov 11 19:00:03 if it's more, then there's a bug Nov 11 19:00:06 tomgibara: yes i understand... and i should change my pin to a private one if i don't want to be found correct? Nov 11 19:00:07 in which case, report it Nov 11 19:00:16 if so, then having ability to turn it off would be bad Nov 11 19:00:19 SinJax: Yes you can do that Nov 11 19:00:26 You can also disable it from the settings Nov 11 19:00:32 romainguy: ok. so how do i uninstall the app? i can't kill it, i'm not trusted by my own phone to tell it how to behave.. Nov 11 19:00:36 tomgibara: ok, so i suppose all im saying is that i'd like to see the feature to disable it completely in the settings :) Nov 11 19:00:39 thats all really :D Nov 11 19:00:46 this is not a holy war on the android framework ;) Nov 11 19:00:47 Disconnect: you still haven't defined "a while" Nov 11 19:01:01 I'm trying to help here to see if it's a bug we need to fix Nov 11 19:01:37 tomgibara: because otherwise its a very nice application! just seems a little strange that its running in the background listening to all texts without any icon or notification or anything ;) Nov 11 19:01:49 can anyone tell me if pintail = pinpoint? Nov 11 19:01:53 SinJax: That's not quite as simple as it sounds - romainguy can correct me if I'm wrong, but if I declare a BroadcastReceiver in the manifest, I can't just stop it from getting the intents. Nov 11 19:02:00 DarkriftX: pintail == pinpoint yes Nov 11 19:02:04 ok, cool Nov 11 19:02:07 romainguy: if there is you can be sure i'll file it, along with the dozen or more other bugs i've already filed. my point is simply that an app is behaving in a way i do not like, and "uninstall it" is a bullshit answer. (even if its not a core app, thats -still- a crap answer.) Nov 11 19:02:17 tomgibara: you could register/unregister the receiver from code Nov 11 19:02:19 romainguy: oh, also, when i'm indoors, if an app requests gps updates every minute, the gps will stay on trying to get a fix. is this correct? Nov 11 19:02:24 so SinJax having a disable switch would make it not work as i was originally told it would Nov 11 19:02:39 i was under the impression it was a locate your stolen/lost phone Nov 11 19:02:52 if you knew when you were going to lose your phone, you wouldnt need this program Nov 11 19:02:53 DarkriftX: correct it could not be used for that Nov 11 19:03:06 but for that to be accurate your phone should ahve GPS on ALL the time :D Nov 11 19:03:09 romainguy: Yes, I will look into that - it's pretty cheap though: the broadcast reciever starts, sees that its disabled and quits, I regarded it as a low priority Nov 11 19:03:13 in that case an off switch would make it useless Nov 11 19:03:15 ooh, i c Nov 11 19:03:30 tomgibara: I know, I'm not advocating you to do this :) Nov 11 19:03:56 romainguy: I know :) But I'm just seeing how I can address the concerns of SinJax Nov 11 19:03:59 tomgibara: but my complaint is not power consumption or CPU :D...i agree you've built it very well for those eventualities :D Nov 11 19:04:23 my complaint is simply that i don't want to change the pin all the time, cus im lazy...and would prefer to just be able to hit "stop" :D Nov 11 19:04:32 not even a complaint Nov 11 19:04:35 call it a suggestion :D Nov 11 19:04:46 he wants his wife to see hes at work, but not at the strip club Nov 11 19:04:47 SinJax: Which you can do via the Enable setting? Nov 11 19:04:49 lol, jk Nov 11 19:05:13 tomgibara: ? im sorry i didn't see that setting if it was there Nov 11 19:05:17 i shall install and check again Nov 11 19:05:57 SinJax: In the application help, it gives some explanation about how all the settings work. Nov 11 19:06:17 i shall look when its installed :) Nov 11 19:06:18 one sec Nov 11 19:06:35 When the app is disabled, it may still launch briefly, in response to an SMS, but it won't do anything (including read the SMS) Nov 11 19:07:04 DarkriftX: simple fix. Get a wife that likes to hit up strip joints Nov 11 19:07:13 lol zewm_ Nov 11 19:07:18 i see, ok thats the feature i was looking for ;)... but i couldn't see it in the settings... one sec Nov 11 19:07:24 my wife has been to a strip club and i havent Nov 11 19:07:27 my ex loved strip joints, it's great! Nov 11 19:07:36 it was great? Nov 11 19:07:57 no idea, she was with a friend who went there to drag her husband out, i didnt go Nov 11 19:08:22 why complicate things with fighting.. she should go there to JOIN her husband, not drag him out :\ Nov 11 19:08:28 lol Nov 11 19:08:29 tomgibara: heh right so my apologies ;) Nov 11 19:08:36 tomgibara: it would seem im just blind :D Nov 11 19:08:44 thanks for the lovely app :) Nov 11 19:09:46 work in 20 minutes, don't know what to do :\ Nov 11 19:10:35 zewm_: quick shower? :P Nov 11 19:10:41 already showered Nov 11 19:10:44 hmm Nov 11 19:10:45 just need to change into work clothes Nov 11 19:10:47 and head out Nov 11 19:10:53 ok...eat some breakfast Nov 11 19:10:55 just bored for the next 20 mins Nov 11 19:10:57 i recommend some fruit Nov 11 19:10:58 had breakfast Nov 11 19:10:59 and lunch Nov 11 19:11:05 hmm! a conundrum! Nov 11 19:11:12 ok... why not read all of slashdot Nov 11 19:11:21 reading up joystiq.com Nov 11 19:11:24 still count? Nov 11 19:11:35 or maybe invest in some quality time with your meticulously organised collection of porno? Nov 11 19:11:44 :D Nov 11 19:11:46 done already earlier :) Nov 11 19:11:50 haha Nov 11 19:12:23 ok... write a haiku about your best day ever and email it my way Nov 11 19:12:24 I'm just sitting here poking my bruises and listening to music Nov 11 19:12:28 and chatting on here Nov 11 19:12:41 best day ever huh Nov 11 19:12:45 yep Nov 11 19:12:46 the best one Nov 11 19:12:58 not any of the mediocre ones...the best one Nov 11 19:13:39 I met this cute girl. She had promised me her heart. Instead she broke mine. Nov 11 19:14:07 christ! morbid! why was that the best day? :D Nov 11 19:14:18 hah Nov 11 19:14:24 Masocist? Nov 11 19:14:30 however you speel it Nov 11 19:14:33 oh in that case well done :D Nov 11 19:14:42 dude, I'm sitting here poking bruises Nov 11 19:14:47 masochist :) Nov 11 19:15:15 think harder :P Nov 11 19:15:16 best day Nov 11 19:15:19 not the rubbish one Nov 11 19:15:22 haha Nov 11 19:15:33 the one that you think about and smile...its hard... cus human memory doesn't work like that Nov 11 19:16:09 oh I got one Nov 11 19:16:10 I think Nov 11 19:16:13 let me make it Nov 11 19:16:23 Can anyone make anything of this? http://pastebin.com/d426d1cc0 I'm trying to install android Nov 11 19:16:38 I am getting bored. Oh no my boss just walked in. Finally I'm free. Nov 11 19:16:43 I mean android's five Nov 11 19:16:44 Day I got fired from the job I hated Nov 11 19:18:06 zewm_: thats a good one :) Nov 11 19:18:52 Google needs to buy this company, and integrate this into the android platform forthwith: http://www.abbyy.com/sdk/?param=56223 Nov 11 19:20:42 Anyone know how to start intents via am on the shell Nov 11 19:21:07 I keep getting bad component name Nov 11 19:22:34 That mobile OCR platform with only a 1.5 or 2 meg footprint would be awesome to have in android - but it's the kind of thing that would be much better suited for a platform-level thing than for an individual developer to license and use for a single application Nov 11 19:23:14 it's highly specialized to be part of the platform Nov 11 19:23:17 especially at 2 MB :) Nov 11 19:24:58 Ok... maybe not part of the platform - but somehow build it and make it available via an intent to other applications - kind of like the ZXing is (only this would likely require some hefty JNI stuff) Nov 11 19:25:08 why do we need ocr? Nov 11 19:25:22 OCR'ing business cards is a sweet feature Nov 11 19:25:32 that I have used on my phone before and now miss desperately Nov 11 19:25:35 or scanning food nutrition labels Nov 11 19:26:02 Or scanning small clippings of text from a book in the library? Nov 11 19:26:34 who needs ocr on business cards when you can use mobile barcodes? Nov 11 19:26:45 (hmm. there's something android needs..) Nov 11 19:26:49 :) Nov 11 19:26:58 I kinda agree. Standard, extensible OCR on a phone has that kind of "disruptive change" smell to it. No idea what the killer app would be, but my gut tells me there's one in there somewhere. Nov 11 19:27:46 On the fly language translation? Nov 11 19:28:23 Yup. Snap a shot of the complicated foreign directions on what you think is the sign to the bathroom, ... Nov 11 19:29:24 If google buys that OCR company, I promise I will click on adwords all day long for 3 weeks straight Nov 11 19:29:26 ... and upload the result directly to engrishfunny.com Nov 11 19:29:29 :) Nov 11 19:30:00 jbq: Heh Nov 11 19:30:50 I'm not sure if that ABBY company is the company who made the stuff Sony Ericsson used in their business card OCR piece - but I would imagine there aren't too many players in the ARM-based OCR world so I think it would be a good guess it was them - and the OCR on that thing worked surprisingly well Nov 11 19:34:18 ERROR/SOCKETLOG: add_recv_stats recv 0 , does anyone know what that error means? Nov 11 19:35:24 damn, I can't get setupwizard to run again Nov 11 19:35:24 SinJax: np about missing the setting, hope you find the app useful Nov 11 19:36:51 tomgibara: im sure i shall :) Nov 11 19:47:35 ..so why is it that all the stock apps use /data for cache? :( Nov 11 20:04:17 hey if anyone is curious, http://jasta.dyndns.org/android/Exmail.apk is pretty stable now. all i have in there is the IMAP IDLE code. Nov 11 20:05:05 jasta: how does it compare with built-in and/or k-9? Nov 11 20:05:07 ive been running it for a few days without any major problems Nov 11 20:05:12 Disconnect: it's just built-in + IMAP IDLE Nov 11 20:05:18 cool! Nov 11 20:05:29 does it sit alongside built in? Nov 11 20:05:33 ah. so it doesn't delete messags but it does save data/power on receiving them. thats... something. :) Nov 11 20:05:34 yes. Nov 11 20:05:51 Disconnect: you have the same not-delete problem as i do? Nov 11 20:05:52 Disconnect: well, push e-mail isn't about saving power for me. i like real time notifiactions. Nov 11 20:06:03 geist: everyone does. Nov 11 20:06:24 w00t Nov 11 20:06:27 not always, someone was saying it worked for them. I assume it depends on the imap server implementation Nov 11 20:06:32 added mibbit to the forums Nov 11 20:06:34 probably the one they wrote it against worked fine Nov 11 20:07:13 it works every now and then Nov 11 20:07:58 i could probably fix that bug pretty easily. it is supposed to work. Nov 11 20:08:06 but im not that interested in fixing it right now ;) Nov 11 20:08:31 hm Nov 11 20:20:12 Hey, I just realized your problem Nov 11 20:20:20 whoops, wrong channel Nov 11 20:39:33 does anybody know where can i find the source code for the AIM application that comes with the G1's IM ? Nov 11 20:39:48 It's not available. Nov 11 20:39:51 it's not open source Nov 11 20:40:50 is it HTC, T-Mobile or AOL? Nov 11 20:43:46 isnt the IM googletalk ? Nov 11 20:43:47 romainguy, so is the IM something different? Nov 11 20:44:24 none of the IM clients are open source Nov 11 20:44:41 AIM, Windows Live Messenger, Gtalk and Yahoo! Nov 11 20:45:09 romainguy, jea but they are mostly reversed Nov 11 20:45:36 pidgin is opensource and has the "protocol" reversed in it in an opensource app Nov 11 20:45:38 I'm talking about the implementations that come with G1 Nov 11 20:45:45 these apps are not open source Nov 11 20:45:50 jea Nov 11 20:45:52 romainguy its just the plugins are closed correct? Nov 11 20:46:00 the IM app itself is open Nov 11 20:46:04 correct? Nov 11 20:46:13 yes, but it's mostly an empty shell if I remember correctly. Nov 11 20:46:20 yeah... but the app is worthless without the clients Nov 11 20:46:21 it's just an empty shell indeed Nov 11 20:46:41 it does provide a lot of the infrastructure though Nov 11 20:46:49 the code is here: http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/packages/apps/IM.git;a=tree;f=src/com/android/im;h=d2c04d4621e98ce2b3a95c82a3e5f814a2960534;hb=master Nov 11 20:46:55 yea Nov 11 20:49:27 hummm... I wonder who/how they reversed the protocols... or if there is a library that could be purchased Nov 11 20:50:00 what's wrong with the IM client on the G1? Nov 11 20:50:19 michaelnovakjr: sms charges for AIM messages, for starters.. Nov 11 20:50:29 ah Nov 11 20:50:40 i wonder how it does that Nov 11 20:51:01 i'd love to see google do The Right Thing and publish their non-xml mobile gtalk specs also. let other xmpp providers adopt them and let other mobile im clients compete on a level field. Nov 11 20:51:03 i don't think my IRC app will have that issue Nov 11 20:55:23 Is there a way to force the browser to download a file when "the content being downloaded is not supported" Nov 11 20:55:36 ask jbq Nov 11 20:56:10 jbq, is there a way to force the browser to download a file when "the content being downloaded is not supported"? Nov 11 20:56:21 there's no way without installing an app that supports the type in question. Nov 11 20:56:39 I've installed an ebook reader, but it wants to read ebooks off the SD card Nov 11 20:56:51 does every application have to basically be it's own download manager? Nov 11 20:57:16 Yes and no. Nov 11 20:57:30 Yes if the app wants to initiate downloads on its own. Nov 11 20:57:43 No if you want to use the browser to download the files. Nov 11 20:57:58 eventually i think you will be able to use the DownloadProvider Nov 11 20:58:04 which is more sophisticated than you would imagine :) Nov 11 20:58:07 :-) Nov 11 20:58:43 Yes, the goal is to eventually make it public... but my crystal ball doesn't tell me when that'll happen. Nov 11 20:59:02 why can't one just download the file? "save to disk" as it were. Nov 11 20:59:23 if I download a .zip file (like in this case) there's no magic way of knowing what application I want to open it Nov 11 20:59:41 since in this case the ebook reader can actually read from the .zip directly Nov 11 20:59:54 well, the intent system is the magic way that you would know to open it. Nov 11 20:59:55 Well, the ebook reader should advertise that it can read zip. Nov 11 21:00:59 fair enough - it still seems reasonable that "hold-click --> save to disk" should exist Nov 11 21:01:19 but thanks for the explanation Nov 11 21:01:22 Actually, it exists... but it still verifies the mime type. Nov 11 21:01:28 There are 2 main reasons: Nov 11 21:01:42 -that'd use bandwidth for something that's not immediately useful. Nov 11 21:02:03 -you wouldn't be able to delete the file (keep in mind that Android was designed to not require a file manager) Nov 11 21:02:45 (barring the fact that I have a file manager) the second reason makes a lot of sense Nov 11 21:03:03 :) file manager Nov 11 21:03:28 if no program will manage the file, it'll just sit around Nov 11 21:03:39 Now, if you have a file manage that says it can "view" */*, the download manager will let you download anything. Call it hex viewer if you want "view" to have a meaning. Nov 11 21:03:41 did we ever get proper tethering accomplished? Nov 11 21:04:14 jbq, fair point :-) Nov 11 21:04:28 thanks again for the insight / explanation Nov 11 21:04:36 no problem Nov 11 21:04:50 jbq: so how do i delete an image i dl with the browser? (just ooc, don't recall finding a way..) Nov 11 21:04:55 esp after 'clear list' on the dl page Nov 11 21:05:06 You're supposed to be able to do that from the image viewer. Nov 11 21:05:08 Disconnect: use Glance :) Nov 11 21:05:32 Disconnect: I don't think gtalk uses straight xmpp Nov 11 21:05:55 so instead of opening a file manager and saying "I want to clear out my downloads" the android way is to open up 30 other apps, one at a time, and delete files from there? Nov 11 21:05:56 ....wow. Nov 11 21:06:18 the idea is that any app that can view certain file types is supposed to "manage" files of those types. Yep. "wow" is a good description. Nov 11 21:06:23 waldo__: the mobile versions don't even use xml. which is exactly what i was saying. Nov 11 21:06:49 Disconnect: there should be a way to register with gtalk as a "broadcaster" or something so you can use their conduit to send notifications to apps... Nov 11 21:07:27 jbq: you can do that with windows (and osx to a lesser degree) .. i challenge you to spend a week managing files that way. don't ever touch explorer (or any other related app) .. want to delete a word doc? open word, go to file->open, rightclick and hit delete. want to delete a zip? open winzip. etc. Nov 11 21:07:48 Disconnect: you're preaching to the choir ;-) Nov 11 21:07:54 ok just checking :) Nov 11 21:08:19 * Disconnect wasn't sure "wow" didn't mean "wow look at how shiny and awesome this new paradigm is!" :) Nov 11 21:08:34 ..cuz i get that a lot around here when i point out the fail. Nov 11 21:09:50 The truth is, the current paradigm works fine when you have a handful of file types, but doesn't scale well to Nov 11 21:10:07 to "power users" who have dozens of file types on heir cards Nov 11 21:11:05 or anyone who manages files with a pc. Nov 11 21:11:28 Yup Nov 11 21:11:57 well, there's three file managers and google didn't have to spend any time on it :) Nov 11 21:12:06 i guess it works out Nov 11 21:14:11 Yes, Android in its first version is flexible enough in this specific area that people aren't entirely stuck. It's just sub-optimal for a certain category of users (the category that's more likely to hang around on IRC *wink*) Nov 11 21:14:58 neeeeed todo/organizer/productivity/pm app Nov 11 21:15:19 wastrel: someone is working on an exchange client. Nov 11 21:15:33 yuck Nov 11 21:15:43 has anyone set up a site where people can submit android ideas and "claim" them to reduce duplicated efforts? Nov 11 21:15:49 heh Nov 11 21:16:01 would you rather have your dream PIM app and not be able to move data around? Nov 11 21:16:08 i don't use exchange Nov 11 21:16:16 i am a linux user Nov 11 21:16:17 wastrel: never said you did. Nov 11 21:16:24 good for you. Nov 11 21:16:25 just make some syncml apps you jerks Nov 11 21:17:32 so why is it that the android emulator is missing features from the G1? I can understand the custom apps that t-mobile has, but what about the market? Nov 11 21:17:58 because it's not the G1 SDK Nov 11 21:17:59 What's the use case for having the market on the emulator? Nov 11 21:18:02 it's the Android SDK :p Nov 11 21:18:27 Hey guys, I have a question concerning a bash script: http://pastebin.com/daa7607a Nov 11 21:18:28 but the market isnt a t-mobile only app, is it? Nov 11 21:18:28 FWIW: the market *is* an android platform thing, right? Other phones should have the same app list? Nov 11 21:18:41 It won't execute past the first conditional statement Nov 11 21:19:05 if it's not in the open-source tree, assume it's not a platform app. Nov 11 21:19:26 (which applies to the market) Nov 11 21:19:52 then where is the source code to the market? Nov 11 21:20:06 bmunger__: inside Google. Nov 11 21:20:15 Sure sure. I'm not so much concerned about source availability for the market (which is, after all, a distribution platform for binary software). Just a little worried that future phones are going to have their own distribution mechanisms, which sounds like a big hassle for app vendors. Nov 11 21:20:15 so its not completely open source Nov 11 21:20:35 bmunger__: android is. the G1, not entirely. Nov 11 21:21:12 yea i dont understand why market isnt part of android.. its something not android and not G1 Nov 11 21:21:50 It's google-specific, and doesn't work without google's servers. Nov 11 21:22:21 hmm Nov 11 21:22:22 ITechJunkie: put the $var1 expression in the test in double quotes to adhere to best practices (if it's not defined, it will cause a parse error). Other than that I don't see much wrong. Nov 11 21:22:51 probably going to get replaced with some other app by someone other than google then Nov 11 21:23:34 how does t-mobile get market then? something google only gives to "approved" partners? Nov 11 21:23:58 bmunger__: Google ships market in the image they give to HTC to put on phones shipped to T-Mobile stores. Nov 11 21:24:18 bmunger__: The market client isn't all that interesting though. The magic to "The Market" is that (1) it's hosted by a trusted provider, and (2) will eventually have a payment channel. Distributing files isn't that meaningful by itself. Nov 11 21:24:22 bmunger__: correct. The same way they sell a phone that says "with Google" on the back - this is google's IP. Nov 11 21:24:44 ah Nov 11 21:25:00 give it time things can change Nov 11 21:25:02 whats the main computers name on iRobot? Nov 11 21:25:02 so if i wanted to test an app from the market on the sdk emulator, how would i do that Nov 11 21:25:16 bmunger__: find it somewhere else, dl it and install it to the emulator. Nov 11 21:25:17 bmunger__, have someone with a g1 and root send it to you Nov 11 21:25:20 heh Nov 11 21:25:28 Root your phone and copy the .apk out of /data/app Nov 11 21:25:55 dont have the phone.. waiting for those idiots at sprint to get their head out of their rear and get on board with it Nov 11 21:26:07 dont hold your breath Nov 11 21:26:15 sprint isnt doing android for a while Nov 11 21:26:21 i know..im more than a little pissed Nov 11 21:26:24 OK, now I understand the use case You want to play with the market, but don't have a phone to do it with. I'm actually more sympathetic now. Nov 11 21:26:34 haha Nov 11 21:26:51 yea.. gsm carriers in this area are lucky to have 2 signal bars and hold a conversation without dropping Nov 11 21:26:54 hi all, I'd like to open a what they call funambol account. they asking for the telephone make and model. I think t-mobile g1 is actually a htc made telephone, however I cannot find the model dreawhat is the model drea100(which I believe is the model) in their list. Did anybody use their services with android before? Nov 11 21:26:55 bmunger__: so get an unlocked g1 Nov 11 21:26:59 i think someone needs to build the g1 android for the emu for us Nov 11 21:27:08 sprint is cdma, not gsm Nov 11 21:27:13 ooh. weak. Nov 11 21:27:14 g1 wouldnt work Nov 11 21:27:17 market works over wifi tho :) Nov 11 21:27:26 gsm covereage is very poor over here Nov 11 21:27:40 yea Nov 11 21:27:58 how bad do you want it? :) Nov 11 21:28:11 actually. couldn't you get it from one of the update zips? Nov 11 21:28:14 well i need my phone for work, so i cant have it not work Nov 11 21:28:37 andyross, i changed it like you said but it just exits after displaying $PATH or echo "Goodbye" Nov 11 21:28:43 Disconnect: I looked at that, but it has that odex thing Nov 11 21:29:02 bmunger__: No idea where you are, but note that the T-Mobile UMTS rollout involved new hardware on the towers. Coverage might be better now than you remember. Or not. Radio is deep voodoo. Nov 11 21:29:21 a friend has the G1 here.. covereage is still crap Nov 11 21:29:43 at least i got to play with it.. im impressed at the responsiveness Nov 11 21:29:43 yeah, CDMA rules Nov 11 21:30:14 kRutOn: thought odex was just deeper-precompiling.. Nov 11 21:30:15 i tried the android over windows ce on my phone..run like garbage but still cool Nov 11 21:30:18 hey everyone... does anyone know if its possible to pull the application icon off the phone and transfer it to your computer? Nov 11 21:30:30 for individual applications Nov 11 21:30:42 Disconnect: I don't know how to get the pm to acknowledge it. I haven't tried just putting it into /data/apps, though Nov 11 21:30:51 ITechJunkie: not really the forum, but have you tried echoing the value of $var1 before you test? Your description just sounds to me like the test is false. Are you sure you typed it properly, don't have a chunk of whitespace (maybe a \r from the terminal) etc.? Nov 11 21:31:25 trigatch4: Yes, if you have root access. The .apk files are in /data/app. Nov 11 21:31:51 * andyross has no idea where the icon lives in the package, mind you, but he knows it's in there somewhere. :) Nov 11 21:32:04 google was quick to kill root access..i find that abusive.. we can have root on a pc or server, but not on a device that was purchased? Nov 11 21:32:10 probably under res/drawables when you unzip Nov 11 21:32:34 Google fixed a bug. Blame them for not shipping with a root mechanism, I guess, but not for patching their software. Nov 11 21:32:44 yes true Nov 11 21:32:58 at least give root once the device is unlocked, i think thats fair Nov 11 21:33:37 I think they don't want applications to be able to get root access Nov 11 21:33:46 andyross, I'll give it a shot. Thanks Nov 11 21:34:05 i can see the applications, but allow a root shell Nov 11 21:34:26 * jbq whispers "DRM", sighs. Nov 11 21:34:52 i think its deceptive advertising Nov 11 21:35:29 bmunger__: the advertising said a lot of untrue things, but it never said you get root access. Nov 11 21:36:00 * andyross dreams of a world where carriers advertise "root access" ... Nov 11 21:36:13 yea Nov 11 21:36:28 its like dell selling you a pc without an admin account Nov 11 21:36:39 maybe you're dreaming of a world where carriers are just commodities Nov 11 21:37:00 The sad thing is that carriers are just commodities in the *real* world. They just refuse to recognize that. Nov 11 21:37:43 ...just sad little companies, addicted to their ring tone revenue. Nov 11 21:37:52 guess the answer is to reflash the phone with custom compiled android Nov 11 21:38:16 Pretty much. Or port to a phone that isn't locked down as well. Nov 11 21:38:25 yea Nov 11 21:38:37 ring tone revenue...how did that ever become a busines... Nov 11 21:38:38 cant wait Nov 11 21:38:58 fcrick: because ppl are stupid Nov 11 21:39:02 and will pay for anything Nov 11 21:39:15 ringtones sometimes cost more then the whole damned song Nov 11 21:39:46 ..its no different than any other technical service. $100 bestbuy "pc cleanup" service is just "here's $100 cuz you have tools and - hopefully - knowledge that I don't" Nov 11 21:41:56 or ppv movies from your cable company.. Nov 11 21:42:00 hi, my mail server does not have a valid certificate, however, i trust that certificate, how can I let the android e-mail client trust it? Nov 11 21:42:06 imap Nov 11 21:42:44 orci: 'ssl if available' will take whatever cert it has. thats fine against evesdropping, bad against MITM attack. Nov 11 21:43:13 but its all you got. (unles you have root. if you have root, add your cert to the cacerts.bks file.) Nov 11 21:46:37 Disconnect, thanks, after cert is accepted, can i change it to ssl always? Nov 11 21:46:39 * Disconnect understands that Danny is probably the test manager (or at least deeply invested in testing) but i'd -really- love to meet the person responsible for security. Nov 11 21:46:42 no Nov 11 21:46:47 I forget... is there any way to ask the LocationManager for a single, up-to-date location, if it can get one, from a certain LocationProvider? Nov 11 21:46:48 well once its in cacerts.bks yes. Nov 11 21:47:20 but there is no way to say "accept and remember this cert" (its not "secure" to do that. its better to be unencrypted. or so i'm told..) Nov 11 21:48:59 or just use connectbot and read via ssh. Nov 11 21:49:06 I have a strange problem with sending e-mails from my android device. I choose a picture and choose share, and choose to share it with default email client or with k-9 (i did not see much difference between both) I choose a contct from my contact list and the application does not send the messsage giving error, at least one contact is needed Nov 11 21:49:09 new mail notifications suck tho :) Nov 11 21:49:58 Disconnect: how come? Nov 11 21:50:28 michaelnovakjr: when reading over ssh+mutt? cuz you have to stay connected and awake to get notifications. sucks down the battery kinda quick :) Nov 11 21:50:53 ouch :) Nov 11 21:52:46 but its the only way to get secure email without buying a bunch of ssl certs.. Nov 11 21:52:59 does anybody use funambol thing? Nov 11 21:53:09 funambol.com Nov 11 21:53:11 (random side note, it'd be nice if cacert was included by default. at least that provides -one- free option..) Nov 11 21:53:28 hello everyone Nov 11 21:53:33 one could add a cert to cacerts Nov 11 21:54:30 what kinda of quality regulations do they implement in the android market Nov 11 21:54:35 spikebike: i said that. but you can't unless you have root. Nov 11 21:54:43 MrSoReady: none. except "they paid $25" Nov 11 21:54:47 oh, er, I might have missed that Nov 11 21:54:51 er I did Nov 11 21:54:57 root is so damn useful Nov 11 21:54:58 :) Nov 11 21:55:04 so how do they prevent people from uploading malicious junk Nov 11 21:55:13 you can hack around it by buying a cert Nov 11 21:55:21 a friend bought a cert and uses stunnel Nov 11 21:55:24 ...by charging $25 to register. duh. (i know. its a really dumb idea.) Nov 11 21:55:26 you can access root on the g1? Nov 11 21:55:32 so he can now use his g1 to arbitrary other servers Nov 11 21:55:38 MrSoReady: if it doesn't upgrade to rc30 you can. Nov 11 21:55:49 when do they start allowing you to charge money for the apps? Nov 11 21:55:53 i wonder if they'll ever give us root :/ Nov 11 21:55:55 spikebike: so can i. i stuck the cacert root cert into my certs Nov 11 21:56:06 MrSoReady: when you learn to use google for basic questions :) Nov 11 21:56:07 andyross: any other way to do it since there is no root access? :) Nov 11 21:56:12 right, but my solution allows non-root access Nov 11 21:56:15 anyone know if jesusfreke comes in here? Nov 11 21:56:29 Disconnect, I know I can google but I just wanted to kinda spark conversation and I didn't know Nov 11 21:56:29 wouldnt he be too busy with the jesusphone? :P Nov 11 21:56:43 Sometimes you just wanna talk to someone Nov 11 21:56:45 MrSoReady: we already had a conversation going. Nov 11 21:56:51 don't you ask hot chicks questions that you know the answer to Nov 11 21:56:51 you could have joined in. Nov 11 21:56:54 lol Nov 11 21:56:55 true Nov 11 21:57:06 I did I asked about getting root even though I probably wouldn't use it Nov 11 21:58:26 trigatch4: Looking at it, it looks like non-root users *do* have access to the .apk files, but not read access (just -x) to their directory. The files are named /data/app/.apk, So run the application, find the package name in "ps", and then grab the file with adb. Nov 11 21:59:12 G1 = new jesus phone? Nov 11 21:59:26 Chainfire: not cool.. Nov 11 21:59:27 hi all. Ive got android running on my HTC touch/vogue. IS talk about this supported here? Nov 11 21:59:56 trying to figure out why I cant save any contacts Nov 11 22:00:38 Gumby`: what do you think this is, #android?? no. this is for talk of the g1. so unless you have... wait, what? this is #android? but .. well yeah, but nobody has ever.. i know its a platform, but.. ok. fine. i'm told its perfectly ok. Nov 11 22:00:49 This could be a good place if the right people are here, but the android-porting mailing list would probably be even better. Nov 11 22:00:59 Disconnect: lol. Nov 11 22:01:16 heh Nov 11 22:01:31 Gumby`: yeah, not seen any non-g1 folk, well cept for the emulator folks Nov 11 22:01:45 Gumby`: how about if you turn auto-sync off Nov 11 22:01:53 maybe ti's te magic between android and gmail that is broken Nov 11 22:02:04 Gumby` I think discussion about that goes on in #htc-linux - thats from memory though, could be completely off Nov 11 22:02:25 Chainfire: I'll have a look. thaks Nov 11 22:02:28 thanks too Nov 11 22:04:30 Gumby`: #htc-linux is what you want Nov 11 22:04:43 thanks SanMehat Nov 11 22:05:33 If I start a service in a BroadcastReceiver, will it stay running until I tell it to stop? Nov 11 22:05:35 anyone have a list of what actually went in between rc28,29 and 30? (other than the root fix. there were patches to most of the apps in the bundle for 30..) Nov 11 22:05:54 Disconnect: No, I don't think so. :-\ Nov 11 22:05:57 SanMehat: Oh, hi! Nov 11 22:06:01 Most were smallish. There was a bit libwebcore drop though. Nov 11 22:06:05 ttuttle: hey Nov 11 22:06:16 * Disconnect knows thats asking a lot, for an "open" platform to provide changelogs and update history (or, you know, update the external repos :) ..) but.. :P Nov 11 22:06:21 SanMehat: How's it going? Nov 11 22:06:24 ttuttle: going ok Nov 11 22:06:26 Disconnect: They're working on it, I think. Nov 11 22:06:28 SanMehat: cool Nov 11 22:06:37 was libwebcore in rc30? i thought that was 28->29. Nov 11 22:06:51 oh snap Nov 11 22:07:19 Disconnect: Like all those free software projects that are so uniformly good about changelogs, you mean? :) I just downloaded a few dozen updates to Intrepid, none of which had a description field set. Nov 11 22:07:35 yeah Nov 11 22:07:39 someone has to be a dick about it Nov 11 22:07:44 * ttuttle believes 29 was webkit update and 30 was root fix. Nov 11 22:07:57 But that's just hearsay. Nov 11 22:07:57 i.e. reject commits without descriptions Nov 11 22:08:01 andyross1: i'd be really surprised if they didn't have updates in the debian.changelog Nov 11 22:08:26 ttuttle: yah thats what i heard also, but the 29->30 zip patched a ton of other stuff Nov 11 22:08:55 Disconnect: Sure, just whatever bugfixes they had around and considered worth fixing at the same time. Nov 11 22:09:00 RC30 was definitely the root fix, but it also included a ~300k patch to libwebcore.so. RC29 was a whole-system tree, I think. I never bothered to look at what changed. Nov 11 22:09:08 ah ok Nov 11 22:09:49 oh, snappity snap snap.. It appears UTF8 characters can be printed in Monospace Nov 11 22:09:50 * Disconnect needs to see if he still has the 29-30 zip lying around and doublecheck it. Nov 11 22:10:18 argh, I guess it's just using font mapping Nov 11 22:14:18 looks like it still has "tons of app patches" - bunch are very small (few bytes each) but most of /app gets touched at least a few k worth. :/ and yah, webcore again Nov 11 22:15:01 just to save some googling if anyone wants to play its https://android.clients.google.com/updates/signed-RC30-from-RC29-fat.1582cace.zip (jf's patched update zip is the full install, not the patches. safer to apply, but harder to see what was in it.) Nov 11 22:15:08 but its time to go to PT. ttyl.. Nov 11 22:19:36 hey guys got a quickie Nov 11 22:19:46 chouman82: congrats Nov 11 22:20:06 how do i scroll the listview to a specific position automatically Nov 11 22:20:34 setSelection() Nov 11 22:20:43 that will scroll the view? Nov 11 22:20:57 you mean with an animation? Nov 11 22:21:16 updating to JesusFreke's 1.1 :) Nov 11 22:21:31 well not necassraily an animation but for example i have 500 objec tin the list Nov 11 22:21:42 then yes Nov 11 22:21:43 and on a press of a button i want to go to position 237 Nov 11 22:21:55 alright let me try that real quick Nov 11 22:22:48 if you did any animation it'd just make to emulate kinetic scrolling to probably the 10 entries before the desired entry point. Nov 11 22:27:02 i think i must have screwed something up Nov 11 22:27:11 hmm Nov 11 22:28:46 ahh nm :) all good Nov 11 22:34:51 hmm the telnetd JesusFreke has in his doesn't seem to work so good Nov 11 22:36:46 has anyone successfully used File.setLastModified(long)? Nov 11 22:39:30 awesome that worked, thanks romainguy Nov 11 22:39:40 np Nov 11 22:40:32 hm, custom fonts that don't work and don't throw an error? Nov 11 23:01:30 oh HELL YES! Finally got FreePascal to compile to Android native code, hurrah! Nov 11 23:01:50 wow hey Chainfire Nov 11 23:01:50 works on emulator Nov 11 23:01:52 how did you do that :) Nov 11 23:02:20 with a lot of gnashing of teeth Nov 11 23:02:21 lol Nov 11 23:02:58 a lot of research... a lot of trying... and a lot of handholding from the lead developer of FPC Nov 11 23:03:23 anyone got a rooted G1 who can try my helloworld ? Nov 11 23:03:47 That doesn't sound suspicious Nov 11 23:04:14 Is clipRect + drawColor faster than drawRect? Nov 11 23:04:39 well you gonna need root to put native code on there, no? Nov 11 23:04:50 perhaps you can actually _run_ it without root, though :) Nov 11 23:06:37 Uhhhh Nov 11 23:06:55 I'm PRETTY sure there's ways to run debugable code w/o needing to root it :) Nov 11 23:08:44 im not... havent digged into the stuff yet, still waiting on my device :S Nov 11 23:09:55 still waiting? Nov 11 23:10:06 yeah :/ Nov 11 23:10:26 as in you've paid for it but it still hasnt come? Nov 11 23:10:30 gonna go to the postoffice tomorrow and find out what the deal is, should have arrived last friday Nov 11 23:10:47 yar, unix_lappy Nov 11 23:15:15 what kind of processor is on the g1? Nov 11 23:15:42 MSM7501A, ARM9 Nov 11 23:17:15 actually, it's a 7201a, which contains both an ARM11 and an ARM9. Nov 11 23:17:33 err yeah sorry GSM version of course Nov 11 23:17:40 myeah but the ARM11 is just the radio, no? Nov 11 23:17:58 it's the opposite actually. ARM9 for radio, ARM11 for applications. Nov 11 23:18:24 ah ok :) Nov 11 23:18:25 (standard 7201a setup) Nov 11 23:18:32 i thought it was the other way around Nov 11 23:20:00 jbq, is there an existing provider that can be used to receive a keyword request from an app then "monitor" sms/txt/chat msgs for key words, then return a notification to the requesting app when that keyword is used and by which service? Nov 11 23:20:06 there was a rundown on all the parts and how much they are projected to cost. Nov 11 23:20:41 though. I'm still of the opinion that it's not a great device. Nov 11 23:20:49 languish: I'm not aware of anything like that. That's have some interesting privacy (and hence security) issues. Nov 11 23:21:14 languish: there is an app on Market that does something similar Nov 11 23:21:16 jbq, I ask so this can be employed blindly by 3rd party apps, without end users worrying the 3rd party app is "monitoring" their txts Nov 11 23:21:26 If you sms a PIN, it will respond with your current GPS position Nov 11 23:21:36 Cedric2, yes, that's why I ask this. Nov 11 23:21:39 pinpoint Nov 11 23:21:48 PinTail? Nov 11 23:21:53 jbq: "ARM11 Jazelle™ Java® hardware acceleration" Nov 11 23:21:58 sure, pintail Nov 11 23:22:06 i think it used to be called pinpoint Nov 11 23:22:09 *shrug* Nov 11 23:22:19 jbq: what does that mean for android/dalvik? Nov 11 23:22:47 probably nothing i imagine Nov 11 23:23:10 I'm not aware of any impact. Nov 11 23:23:48 I would prefer a native android "provider" that sits in the middle to do this, with some form of controls on it.. (restricting filtering by ALL leywords, perhaps an official "registration" of keywords for specific apps for trust purposes..etc) Nov 11 23:24:20 rather than having random apps persistently filtering through messages Nov 11 23:25:14 eh any other platform can do the same thing Nov 11 23:25:22 only download from trusted sources Nov 11 23:25:38 blau, trusted sources doesn't change the issue. Nov 11 23:25:53 give me ONE trusted source that acts as a middle point. Nov 11 23:26:06 and let all others work through it. Nov 11 23:26:12 so how would that work Nov 11 23:26:25 I just explained it :| Nov 11 23:26:26 your app registers as requiring all SMS that have the word boob in it? Nov 11 23:27:07 I would say more defined. perhaps Boob 828282 Nov 11 23:27:44 Hello folks... I got me a question. I want to get into Android Development but I don't know the first thing about Java. In looking at Amazon for Java books, it seems that Java comes in many colors and sizes. Spring, Java EE, etc. What do I need to know to build Android apps? Nov 11 23:28:05 blau, but essentially yes Nov 11 23:28:12 melvinram: my suggestion forgo the books, read the instructions own how to install the ide and sdk Nov 11 23:28:18 and then go through the api demos Nov 11 23:28:27 do you have any programming background? Nov 11 23:28:37 Ruby + Rails Nov 11 23:28:38 melvinram, if you don't know Java then just get a Java textbook Nov 11 23:28:49 just a general "welcome to Java!" book would do fine Nov 11 23:29:00 java for dummies would be just as good Nov 11 23:29:09 melvinram look here: http://www.anddev.org/index.php?c=2 Nov 11 23:29:09 blau, that's what I was referring to Nov 11 23:29:10 I recommend Core Java by Horstmann Nov 11 23:29:35 elad: thanks... is that for beginners? Nov 11 23:29:41 ooo Core java is one of my old fav books, its huge though and a lot of it isnt gonna apply to android Nov 11 23:29:41 i seem to remember alot of stuff on AWT and Swing Nov 11 23:29:44 is there any way to profile android apps? to see how long various things take and where bottlenecks are? Nov 11 23:31:08 So the idea about the middlware android txt filter i mentioned. Nov 11 23:31:15 perhaps add security settings to it Nov 11 23:31:24 txt/IM Nov 11 23:31:28 lang: its a nice idea, but id still want the catch all receiver available Nov 11 23:31:44 blau, that's what the security setting would be for Nov 11 23:31:57 you could disable it, with a harsh warning Nov 11 23:32:23 elad: Holy crap! 1056 pages Nov 11 23:32:30 id want it at the app level like it is now, having to require the user to go somewhere else to allow it would be damaging to any apps Nov 11 23:32:53 and as a developer you'd want the catch all. but end users, especially business users, like their security.. even if they hand it away half to time in exchange for convenience Nov 11 23:33:16 although i do see where you ar ecoming from Nov 11 23:33:22 i habe some concerns about the ability to read contacts Nov 11 23:33:30 yes Nov 11 23:33:40 alot of the time my apps dont need to read all the contacts Nov 11 23:33:47 i just want the user to pick one Nov 11 23:34:02 and there are ways to allow bring the picker up Nov 11 23:34:18 the idea that any app can filter all my incomming txts/IM's as a "feature" with no controls, is disturbing, especially when it only has to receive a very limited set of keywords Nov 11 23:34:39 but as soon as I ge the result back, it bitches that i need the read_contacts permission Nov 11 23:35:04 languish: thanks, i'm going to look in that link Nov 11 23:35:19 melvinram, no prob. good luck. start working on java basics first. Nov 11 23:35:23 anyone know the resource compiler used in android? Nov 11 23:35:36 one of my apps receives all texts which is why im against what your saying a bit :) Nov 11 23:35:57 blau, :) again.. hence the security settings option. Nov 11 23:36:21 if an end user is ok with it, more power to ya Nov 11 23:36:26 btw, which app? Nov 11 23:36:38 the sms screen alert Nov 11 23:36:58 hmm haven't played with that yet Nov 11 23:37:22 it would be better but keyguards and wakelocks dont seem to function identically between the emulator and actual phone and im too lazy to submit a bug report Nov 11 23:37:42 :/ Nov 11 23:38:13 at the moment its kinda lame, just turns the screen on when you get a sms, on my emulator it turns the screen on, disables the lock, and shows it nicely formatted, then relocks it after a timeout Nov 11 23:38:23 so how long until we get the gmail video chat supported on Android? :) Nov 11 23:39:33 glad I didn't type my response yet Nov 11 23:39:35 :| Nov 11 23:40:35 RyeBrye, show me an android device with a user facing camera :/ Nov 11 23:40:49 Show me an android user with an attractive face first! Nov 11 23:40:56 :) Nov 11 23:40:59 <- Nov 11 23:41:07 I would, but my wife doesn't like me to share her pics online Nov 11 23:41:13 :D Nov 11 23:41:30 you could use a mirror :) Nov 11 23:41:42 lame Nov 11 23:41:51 I don't live in yourSpace Nov 11 23:42:26 eh id settle for gtalk voice Nov 11 23:42:33 spikebike, agreed Nov 11 23:42:44 or skype that doesn't use minutes :| Nov 11 23:43:13 My wife uses skype with her psp to call relatives in japan Nov 11 23:43:48 people think she's using some uber cool voice interactive video game Nov 11 23:44:36 she gave up on her G1? Nov 11 23:44:42 not at all Nov 11 23:44:48 she just doesn't use it for voip Nov 11 23:45:05 because the skype compatible app burns minutes, not just data Nov 11 23:45:27 and skypes int'l rates are cheaper than t-mobiles Nov 11 23:45:37 anyone have the silver g1? Nov 11 23:45:48 (for calling landline phones) Nov 11 23:45:56 or know where to get it? Nov 11 23:45:59 and free for calling other skype users. Nov 11 23:46:20 sfuentes where have you seen a silver g1? Nov 11 23:46:22 url? Nov 11 23:47:07 white is probably better description Nov 11 23:47:16 ahh Nov 11 23:47:35 u've seen it right? Nov 11 23:48:12 whats todays android drama? Nov 11 23:48:23 no root in rc80 Nov 11 23:48:25 lol Nov 11 23:48:34 <--- premptive Nov 11 23:49:03 sfuentes seen it yes. it was help back on rumors of problems with the paint/plastic chipping or cracking. Nov 11 23:49:08 *held Nov 11 23:49:25 my g1 is starting to get "squeeky" Nov 11 23:49:38 there's a fix for the squeeky Nov 11 23:49:44 wd40? Nov 11 23:50:45 no, 3 methods. 1) a little tape to prevent the friction causing the squeek. #2, filing down the contact point that's squeeking. #3, exchanging your current g1 for a new one that doesn't have the issue Nov 11 23:51:15 the squeek occurs at a very specific point Nov 11 23:51:40 t-mobile forums and androidcommunity.com both have threads for the fixes Nov 11 23:51:54 DarkriftX, that would be a nice add for your wiki Nov 11 23:51:59 * languish lazy Nov 11 23:52:18 i have a "fixes" section after each update Nov 11 23:52:21 but not physical stuff Nov 11 23:52:34 languish: what a shame ... looked nice in the marketing material at http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/overview.html Nov 11 23:52:49 sfuentes, matter of perception. it'll come. Nov 11 23:53:02 likely some are available as is Nov 11 23:53:41 they should put a dalvikvm chip on that sucker :) Nov 11 23:54:15 Yeah, I would rather have a white one Nov 11 23:54:18 anyone know about the android resource compiler? Nov 11 23:56:25 Are the chips inside of this black box of mine I refer to as the G1 documented -> ANYWHERE <- ? I can't seem to find anything more than a couple of watered down marketing documents for the mwm7k stuff Nov 11 23:56:38 s/mwm7k/msm7k/ Nov 11 23:56:39 RyeBrye meant: Are the chips inside of this black box of mine I refer to as the G1 documented -> ANYWHERE <- ? I can't seem to find anything more than a couple of watered down marketing documents for the msm7k stuff Nov 11 23:57:20 nice bot Nov 11 23:57:20 RyeBrye: ask HTC :) Nov 11 23:57:38 HTC: Do you have any docs on the chipsets in the G1? Nov 11 23:57:43 ;) Nov 11 23:57:46 ask qualcomm Nov 11 23:57:57 * RyeBrye goes to asks brick wall Nov 11 23:59:10 Has anyone ever gotten close to 319 hours of standby on their phone? Nov 11 23:59:18 RyeBrye: http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/families/ARM11Family.html Nov 12 00:00:21 All threads about downgrading or root on rc30 need to just be deleted imo Nov 12 00:01:14 so you would deny a portion of the consumer market what they want? Nov 12 00:01:38 and a portion of the developer market what they need? Nov 12 00:02:02 Does Dalvik benefit at all from this so-called "Jazelle" piece of the G1? Nov 12 00:02:11 nope Nov 12 00:02:24 a rooted device provides better understanding of its functionality, which results in better application development Nov 12 00:02:26 jazelle is going away in newer arms anyway Nov 12 00:02:37 RyeBrye: nope, it's only really useful for another kind of virtual machine, which then needs to be pretty heavily designed to be ableto use it. Nov 12 00:02:39 For a technology with an even stupider name? Nov 12 00:02:45 languish: except theres thousands of posts about it Nov 12 00:02:49 and they're all the exact same thing Nov 12 00:02:54 "QQ I UPDATED HOW DOES I ROOT" Nov 12 00:02:56 it squeeks for me right behind the red button Nov 12 00:03:04 Gary, so don't read them :) Nov 12 00:03:22 anyway, i dont care that much. the hardware is pretty good for me Nov 12 00:03:28 It's the Internet, curring through the noise is necessary. Nov 12 00:03:35 *cutting Nov 12 00:03:50 I claim that it's much easier to understand functionality by reading source code. Nov 12 00:03:52 if it's actual intellectual conversations about finding an exploit or downgrading, sure Nov 12 00:04:20 furthermore, the files that you'd need to understand Android better are world-readable on the G1. Nov 12 00:04:23 jbq, source code can be deceptive when it doesn't end up compiled for the device as is. Nov 12 00:04:49 It's always nice and helpful to see things laid out on the functional product. Nov 12 00:05:12 sure, like being able to read the files in /system Nov 12 00:05:12 Different people learn in different ways :) Nov 12 00:06:03 yes ... like the too familiar osmosis method :) Nov 12 00:06:19 I'm having fun poking at the kernel and seeing why certain things aren't turned on yet... and then quickly turning them back off! :) Nov 12 00:06:19 mmMMmMmMM osmosis Nov 12 00:07:29 Also, the source code is incomplete. Nov 12 00:07:37 Due to legal issues Nov 12 00:07:43 and perhaps some security issues Nov 12 00:08:10 how dio you jump through pages in irssi? Nov 12 00:08:25 sure Nov 12 00:09:34 languish: all the security issues I've been aware of with the code that's on the G1 were in components that had been open-sourced. Nov 12 00:09:57 waldo-g1, it depends on sending page up/down in your terminal app Nov 12 00:10:28 jbq, I mean along the lines of what's not open sources, like the market. Nov 12 00:10:33 *sourced Nov 12 00:10:35 languish: hmmm Nov 12 00:10:50 waldo-g1, what terminal app are you using? (or ssh app) Nov 12 00:11:08 i dont mean scrollback im using connectbot Nov 12 00:11:12 yes, I haven't heard any security-related reason why those couldn't be open-sourced. Nov 12 00:11:26 i mean switch to any msgs i may have Nov 12 00:12:11 hrmmm Nov 12 00:12:52 is there really no eclipse 3.3+ support in ubuntu? does that mean I can't use the adt plugin? Nov 12 00:13:04 waldo-g1 depends on your irssi, if you have it going to a specific window.. then /win # Nov 12 00:13:10 the future is bright ... tiny android machines across the horizon. life couldn't be more beautiful Nov 12 00:13:16 waldo-g1: I think double-tap trackball then number worked for me Nov 12 00:13:22 thx Nov 12 00:13:26 in the thousands Nov 12 00:13:31 that gave me an 'alt' keypress... not sure why (didn't seem to match the instructions) Nov 12 00:13:34 i think i'll be a coder poet Nov 12 00:14:12 that worked! thx Nov 12 00:14:33 yeah, that's the same as using /win. alt-# = /win # Nov 12 00:16:19 cool Nov 12 00:16:28 I'm really looking forward to the next big android release. Hopefully witha full BT implimentation Nov 12 00:16:31 good to know Nov 12 00:16:54 waldo-g1 http://linuxreviews.org/software/irc/irssi/#toc6 Nov 12 00:17:45 once you have more than 10 windows in irssi, you'll need /win # Nov 12 00:17:59 rather than alt # Nov 12 00:18:17 there's always c-n and c-p Nov 12 00:18:22 but that's not random-access Nov 12 00:21:31 alt-q/w/e/r/t/y/u/i/o/p gets windows 11 - 20 Nov 12 00:21:46 alt -a gets you the 'active' window Nov 12 00:22:39 languish: BT? Nov 12 00:22:45 bluetooth Nov 12 00:23:01 languish: bt sucks right now? Nov 12 00:23:04 mmann.... Nov 12 00:23:06 sfuentes: no A2DP Nov 12 00:23:09 it's limited Nov 12 00:23:16 no OBEX Nov 12 00:23:34 that's fine Nov 12 00:23:39 no api...yet Nov 12 00:23:41 no support for activation of voice dialing with an on-device button Nov 12 00:23:42 first release Nov 12 00:23:53 spikebike! Nov 12 00:23:56 Sure, but that's why people would want improvement in the next release. Nov 12 00:24:01 good to see u Nov 12 00:24:03 There *is* an API, the bluez stack is on the phone. But you have to write native code to get to it. Nov 12 00:24:27 im at a park Nov 12 00:24:46 spikebike: success on rc30? Nov 12 00:24:54 hrm, if I want to code a hello world application for android, and I just want to use a text editor, what do I have to do to get things to compile? Nov 12 00:25:13 Seeing as they couldn't manage to fit a 3.5 mm jack on the device, A2DP would have been a good thing to have at launch. Nov 12 00:25:17 ya x2 Nov 12 00:25:33 i update the docsas well Nov 12 00:25:41 nice Nov 12 00:25:52 eg. do I have to change classpath?, do I have to compile in a specific directory, etc? Nov 12 00:25:53 we should throw a party Nov 12 00:25:54 b0nn: there's an activitycreator (sp?) generator script you can use. Then you can read the awful generated Ant build.xml file and write your own makefile using the same tools. :) Nov 12 00:26:00 i'm next Nov 12 00:26:12 i finally got an update request/notice Nov 12 00:26:19 Say no Nov 12 00:26:22 i was feeling leftout for a bit Nov 12 00:26:28 Say no Nov 12 00:26:32 i did. twice already Nov 12 00:26:36 OTA = meth, you want to try it, but once you do, your fucked Nov 12 00:26:50 ya ota rc30 is evil Nov 12 00:26:52 DarkriftX: nice analogy Nov 12 00:26:53 ok, thanks Nov 12 00:26:54 OK. Now go install the rooted RC30. At some point, you're going to want it. Nov 12 00:27:06 Those prompts get annoying quickly Nov 12 00:27:11 That'll be the main reason. Nov 12 00:27:16 they wont stay prompts for long Nov 12 00:27:34 They will if you have a modified recovery image. Nov 12 00:27:35 pretty soon they are just "thank you for giving us your root" messages Nov 12 00:27:53 ahh Nov 12 00:27:54 or just move otacerts Nov 12 00:28:00 Indeed. I followed a broken set of instructions to disable updates, and discovered that the update got pushed anyway overnight and killed my /system partition. Had to recover from RC29. Nov 12 00:28:06 i figured if you had modified recovery, you had modified rc30 Nov 12 00:28:14 Suppose so. Nov 12 00:28:25 I actually got sick of mucking around with it and reverted to stock, let it install rc30. Nov 12 00:28:55 If I had more time to roll new images myself and whatnot I would have stuck with it. Nov 12 00:29:03 you wont have to Nov 12 00:29:07 nest is to upgrade Nov 12 00:29:09 im hosting all the custom ones on my site Nov 12 00:29:10 b Nov 12 00:29:13 ah well Nov 12 00:29:14 Ouch. You realize you can't go back, right? So when someone comes up with a really cool hack requiring root (a tethered wifi AP, etc...) you're left out? Nov 12 00:29:32 andyross: Sure. Nov 12 00:29:46 Partly I figure unless there's another exploit there's going to be a very limited subset of people with root. Nov 12 00:30:07 Therefore limited interest in creating and maintaining root-only type hacks. Nov 12 00:30:12 yeah, a second wave of people might start to try and find another exploit Nov 12 00:30:19 Anyone who buys a device now will not get root with the old method. Nov 12 00:30:20 FWIW, I managed to crash my phone today playing with native OpenGL stuff. So there's at least one more plausibly exploitable bug in there. Nov 12 00:30:23 Assuming it's updated. Nov 12 00:30:23 maybe Nov 12 00:30:59 New phones in boxes no doubt still have RC19 (or RC28, apparently there are some of those too). It takes a while for a new image to make it all the way through production. Nov 12 00:31:06 So, a little part of me was sad when root went away. Nov 12 00:31:30 But I've got a new baby and plenty of other stuff to do, including working on K-9 now and then, so it wasn't for me for now. Nov 12 00:33:41 so what's the worst thing you can do with modified rc30? Nov 12 00:33:59 someone needs to ban whoever wrote that t-mobile hotspot app from ever coding again. Nov 12 00:34:09 worst? Someone ported debian, I read somewhere. I guess that counts. Nov 12 00:34:17 i attempted to lower Nov 12 00:34:25 the barrier to entry Nov 12 00:34:43 Asked this in the dev channel without an answer, maybe someone here knows: Nov 12 00:34:43 Is there a way to launch an application from the shell? Debugging on the phone is getting tiresome, having to build and install packages, then reach over and click on the desktop. It would be much faster if I could just dump files in place and script the startup. Nov 12 00:34:44 new docs should take 10 min ot so Nov 12 00:36:10 so, how do I compile one of the example applications? Nov 12 00:36:21 andy why is debian the worst thing to happen Nov 12 00:37:48 where can i find my restore cd? :D Nov 12 00:38:26 no but seriously, if something gets fubared in the process, i can restore from a recovery image, right? Nov 12 00:40:39 ugh Nov 12 00:41:10 this is the 5th G1 I've had to remove this piece of shit t-mobile app from and fix the APN settings Nov 12 00:43:58 languish: the hotspot app? Nov 12 00:44:20 sfuentes, yes Nov 12 00:45:58 for some reason, when the phone seeks to reconnect to 3g/voice service from a dead zone, the fucking thing tries to connect to wifi instead, which means killing the 3g Nov 12 00:46:10 and appearently all voice connectivity too Nov 12 00:47:17 languish: what does it screw up in the APNs? Nov 12 00:47:48 this is what it does every time I/ActivityManager( 47): Start proc com.tmobile.wifi for broadcast com.tmobile.wifi/.client.WifiBroadcastReceiver Nov 12 00:49:37 you have the t-mobile hotspot app loaded? Nov 12 00:50:06 personally I leave wifi off unless i'm using it. Nov 12 00:50:19 Damm, wifi is off when this happens Nov 12 00:50:21 I had read somewhere that you needed it for wifi access at hotspots Nov 12 00:50:28 Since they turned off normal login access Nov 12 00:50:32 * brocktice grumples Nov 12 00:50:39 * brocktice grumbles even Nov 12 00:50:59 languish, mine seems to be decent when I come out of the Metro Tunnels Nov 12 00:51:05 yes, and it's a known problem Nov 12 00:51:06 by the time I hit the top escalator it's back Nov 12 00:51:16 not as good as my AT&T phone Nov 12 00:51:20 but *shrug* Nov 12 00:51:35 Damm, yeah, I don't know why it affects some and not others Nov 12 00:51:45 but as I said, looking through forums, it's a known issue Nov 12 00:51:59 my wife's g1 isn't modded either Nov 12 00:52:20 I live in Seattle fyi, and yeah the coverage for T-Mobile is 50/50 Nov 12 00:52:25 some areas it's not even worth trying Nov 12 00:52:47 Bus ride home is 10minutes of it going from 3G to EDGE to GPRS to 3G to EDGE to GPRS Nov 12 00:52:55 :| Nov 12 00:53:18 oh heck it takes about 15minutes for GPS to lock on Nov 12 00:53:20 if it does Nov 12 00:53:24 WA.. maybe they just want to punish microsoft employees :P Nov 12 00:53:24 ditto here Nov 12 00:53:47 <-- not a microsoft employee Nov 12 00:53:51 on the gps issue Nov 12 00:53:54 collateral damage Nov 12 00:53:54 In the Portland west suburbs it's actually pretty good. Occasionally drops to EDGE, and I've never seen a GPRS connection. Nov 12 00:53:56 it takes about 30 seconds for gps to lock on for me Nov 12 00:54:06 I've had it lock in 30 seconds Nov 12 00:54:10 I've also had it never lock Nov 12 00:54:22 Even outside with no nearby trees Nov 12 00:54:31 Other times it locks inside my house not even close to a window Nov 12 00:54:32 mysterious Nov 12 00:54:36 it never locks in my house.. it's always 30 seconds or less outside (obviously not going to lock inside) Nov 12 00:54:51 GPS is just like that. The satellite configuration is constantly changing. Nov 12 00:55:28 andyross, yep Nov 12 00:55:41 I have a Sony Ericsson Z750a which has GPS... and it has the same issue Nov 12 00:55:47 so I'm not blaming the G1 at all Nov 12 00:56:02 I just wish you could lock GPS on... so it could lockoon Nov 12 00:56:03 My Foretrex locks on pretty quickly Nov 12 00:56:06 Although not inside. Nov 12 00:56:17 Unless I've moved across the country between power-ons or something. Nov 12 00:56:27 I've never tried it indoors. Nov 12 00:56:29 * brocktice shrugs Nov 12 00:58:07 <`vip> michaelnovakjr you about ? Nov 12 01:06:25 is there some sort of standardized gesture recognition? like swipes and such? Nov 12 01:06:48 GestureDetector Nov 12 01:07:44 awesome, thanks Nov 12 01:08:02 grr " Gmail voice and video chat is not yet available for Linux. " <-- fail >:/ Nov 12 01:16:43 when using a TabHost, how can I stop it from changing the tab every time the orientation changes? Nov 12 01:17:53 no one talks in here? Nov 12 01:18:52 not really Nov 12 01:20:41 no one talks in here. Nov 12 01:20:42 ever. Nov 12 01:20:46 shut up! Nov 12 01:20:55 oh sorry Nov 12 01:21:09 shhh Nov 12 01:21:29 wat's the difference between the contextmenu and the optionmenu? Nov 12 01:21:53 just a guess, but is context menu the thing that pops up on a long press? Nov 12 01:22:05 that's wat i am trying to figure out Nov 12 01:22:18 Neverende1: this is a library man! keep ur voice down Nov 12 01:22:31 I'm trying to run a hello world app but it seems to get stuck... here's my code n output from console: http://www.pastie.org/312711 Nov 12 01:22:58 Neverende1: j/k btw Nov 12 01:23:12 melvinram, nothing wrong with the code, as far as I can see Nov 12 01:23:16 Oh i thought it really was a library. Nov 12 01:23:35 i'm thinking of committing last touches to reiser4 patches for android Nov 12 01:24:05 Any ideas on why it won't run? Nov 12 01:24:25 melvinram, I'd guess something wrong with your emulator installation but I have no idea, to be honest Nov 12 01:24:25 melvinram: it's not a code issue. It looks like adb is losing its connection to the emulator Nov 12 01:25:06 if you simply launch the emulator manually, does DDMS (inside eclipse, open the DDMS perspective) see it? Does 'adb devices' in a terminal see it? Nov 12 01:26:16 My Android Development Tols & Android Editors inside Eclipse is a version 0.8.0 v200809220836-110569 ... is that what you guys have? Nov 12 01:26:32 yes this is the latest Nov 12 01:26:52 weird Nov 12 01:27:14 melvin: like the name Nov 12 01:27:23 again, this is not an Eclipse problem issue. the plugin relies on adb to talk to the emulator Nov 12 01:27:33 it looks like adb and the emulator are being disconnected somehow Nov 12 01:27:44 sfuentes: what name? melvin or hello world? Nov 12 01:28:24 melvin Nov 12 01:28:30 its alien like Nov 12 01:28:36 lol thanks i think Nov 12 01:28:43 melvin and android go together Nov 12 01:29:33 i just got my g1 so i figured i'd tinker with android Nov 12 01:29:50 melvinram which release? Nov 12 01:30:22 spikebike: what do you mean? the g1? or the android sdk? or something else? Nov 12 01:31:14 the android software version Nov 12 01:31:36 i dunno... how do I find out? Nov 12 01:32:14 have you installed any cut? Nov 12 01:32:29 any cut? Nov 12 01:32:39 i'm guessing now Nov 12 01:32:40 melvinram, from the home, hit "Menu" then settings Nov 12 01:32:40 no Nov 12 01:32:43 then scroll to the bottom Nov 12 01:32:52 there's an "About"; select that Nov 12 01:32:56 oh, you mean on the g1 Nov 12 01:33:02 ya Nov 12 01:33:06 any cut is from the market Nov 12 01:34:03 build number is 1.0 TC4-RC!( 109652 Nov 12 01:34:18 *build number is 1.0 TC4-RC19 109652 Nov 12 01:35:01 ah, good Nov 12 01:35:07 you can get root Nov 12 01:35:25 but tmo will likely offer you an upgrade to rc30 that will prevent root Nov 12 01:35:48 so you can either accept it, or upgrade to a modded rc30 Nov 12 01:35:51 why do I care about getting "root"? Nov 12 01:36:22 I mean, can't you download apps onto your phone for free anyway Nov 12 01:36:34 spikebike, if I do a factory reset, does it undo updates that have come since it came from the factory? Nov 12 01:36:52 melvinram, yeah, but if you're a tinkerer, then there are some things you can't do Nov 12 01:37:00 I personally didn't do it because I don't care that much Nov 12 01:37:33 depends whether you consider android an open phone platform, or just a nice gui and apps on a normal closed device. Nov 12 01:38:04 tmobile obviously considers it the latter :-) Nov 12 01:38:06 rwhitby: personally i consider it a phone Nov 12 01:38:06 how much time do i have before those bigwigs install rc30 on my g1? Nov 12 01:38:18 melvinram: in that case, you don't need root Nov 12 01:38:25 w/o my consent Nov 12 01:38:25 sfuentes, it prompts before installing Nov 12 01:38:31 sfuentes, ahh, no idea Nov 12 01:38:38 i've already said later 3 times Nov 12 01:38:56 they'll wear you down :-) Nov 12 01:38:59 so i'm running on the clock Nov 12 01:39:16 i'm going to try and do mod rc30 when i get home Nov 12 01:39:30 my emulator gets stuck at "Waiting for HOME ('android.process.acore') to be launched..." Nov 12 01:39:35 if they don't install it before then Nov 12 01:40:27 sfuentes: just say no if offered Nov 12 01:40:29 er later Nov 12 01:40:35 sfuentes: did 2 last night, it went well Nov 12 01:40:44 and I updated the docs so it should be easier Nov 12 01:41:18 spikebike: what docs? Nov 12 01:41:23 melvinram: try to launch the emulator manually with -verbose to see what goes wrong. Also, what OS are you using? Nov 12 01:42:04 i think i've got it... something relating to this: http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/browse_thread/thread/755cc509134ae058/146842d2010430e2?lnk=raot Nov 12 01:42:32 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Nov 12 01:42:32 i thought i already had 1.0 but maybe not Nov 12 01:46:14 well it is 1.0...rc19 Nov 12 01:46:33 Damm: was that for me? Nov 12 01:46:47 never fear, there will be updates Nov 12 01:46:47 Damm: I think he meant the version of the SDK, not of g1 Nov 12 01:46:51 Damm, I think he means he doesn't have ---yeah Nov 12 01:46:58 ah Nov 12 01:47:44 <`vip> romainguy was it you that recomended a java book the other day ??? Nov 12 01:49:33 No luck... that wasn't it Nov 12 01:50:06 melvinram: did you try to see if DDMS/adb sees your emulator? Nov 12 01:51:16 how do I do that? Nov 12 01:51:35 with your emulator launched. try "adb devices' in a terminal Nov 12 01:51:42 (adb is in /tools) Nov 12 01:52:25 spikebike: i thank u very much for your contribution Nov 12 01:54:20 xavd: emulator-5554 device Nov 12 01:54:26 xavd: so yes Nov 12 01:54:34 I just got rc69 Nov 12 01:55:07 69? Nov 12 01:55:25 melvinram: ok, in Eclipse, open the DDMS perspective (Window > Open Perspective > Other... and find it under Android) Nov 12 01:55:33 in the DDMS perspective there's a Device view Nov 12 01:56:10 you should see your emulator in there. expand the tree item Nov 12 01:56:16 what processes do you see? Nov 12 01:56:48 (more specifically do you see android.process.acore?) Nov 12 01:57:10 spikebike: is there a reason why we are simply renaming otacerts.zip instead of just deleting it? Nov 12 01:58:25 brb ... eclipse is giving an error when starting the emulator... gonna restart computer incase i messed something up Nov 12 01:58:33 a rename is reversable Nov 12 01:58:37 or incase something is running that should have closed Nov 12 01:58:43 k Nov 12 01:59:28 so we still might need this ... interesting Nov 12 01:59:42 better to be safe Nov 12 02:00:18 well it's small Nov 12 02:00:50 seems little benefit to delete it Nov 12 02:02:28 *cough* reboot *cough* hrmmrhm Nov 12 02:02:34 what if something goes fubar in the process? I'm the paranoid type Nov 12 02:02:36 i'm not sure who said I should go into DDMS prospective but here is the LogCat that is outputted Nov 12 02:03:06 http://www.pastie.org/312741 Nov 12 02:03:07 melvinram: logcat is of little use here. I'm more interested in the list of processes seen by ddms Nov 12 02:03:20 i won't be stuck with a broken g1 indefinitely, right? Nov 12 02:03:27 hmm wow, I take that back. Nov 12 02:04:06 hmm, processes? I see Devices, Emulator Control, Treads, Heap & File Explorer Nov 12 02:04:09 sf no, you can switch from modded to tmo Nov 12 02:04:14 but not vice versa Nov 12 02:04:22 melvinram: what do you see in Devices? Nov 12 02:04:38 it should be tree item that you can expand to see the processes Nov 12 02:04:44 emulator-5554 Online 1.0 Nov 12 02:04:57 its not a tree Nov 12 02:05:05 just one iteam Nov 12 02:05:09 *item Nov 12 02:05:16 what exactly is displayed by the emulator? I'm guessing the boot screen? Nov 12 02:05:32 yep Nov 12 02:05:52 ok, kill that emulator, and from a terminal launch 'emulator -verbose' and put the output in pastie.org Nov 12 02:05:54 its says "ANDROID _" Nov 12 02:05:59 what OS are you using? Nov 12 02:06:02 spikebike: i mean, what if the the g1 mysteriously runs out of battery before flash_image recovery is done ? Nov 12 02:06:08 vista 64bit Nov 12 02:06:20 is my rom screwed? Nov 12 02:06:23 sfuentes: oh, not really Nov 12 02:06:38 the recovery flash (or failure of) won't kill the phone (the normal partition is fine) Nov 12 02:06:42 melvinram: is it the first you've ever used the SDK? Nov 12 02:06:47 and once that's done the 2nd partition needs flashed Nov 12 02:07:02 so having either partition working will avoid bricking Nov 12 02:07:39 http://www.pastie.org/312744 Nov 12 02:07:49 yes Nov 12 02:07:54 it's the first i've used it Nov 12 02:07:55 thank god :D Nov 12 02:08:19 with that said, I'd make sure you hav decent battery before startin Nov 12 02:08:19 g Nov 12 02:08:32 lol will have full battery Nov 12 02:08:44 even 50 should be plenty Nov 12 02:08:54 melvinram: can you check the folder C:\Users\Mel\AppData\Local\An Nov 12 02:08:55 droid\SDK-1.0\ exists? Nov 12 02:09:49 yep Nov 12 02:09:52 it does Nov 12 02:10:01 C:\Users\Mel\AppData\Local\Android\SDK-1.0>ls Nov 12 02:10:12 default.keyset emulator.cfg userdata-qemu.img Nov 12 02:10:16 k. can you quit eclipse and try to launch ddms from the command line (it's under /tools) Nov 12 02:10:34 launch it from a terminal, it's a bat file Nov 12 02:10:50 ls Nov 12 02:10:57 oops, that was for terminal Nov 12 02:11:31 It outputs: 'java' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. Nov 12 02:11:50 did you install a JDK? Nov 12 02:12:10 does the JDK install set up your classpath? Nov 12 02:12:19 it's been a while since I've installed Java Nov 12 02:12:26 does that come seperate from Eclipise? Nov 12 02:12:57 Eclipse comes with it's own JRE but you need a JDK to develop for android Nov 12 02:13:05 ahh Nov 12 02:13:10 that must be it Nov 12 02:13:26 Can I just does the second one on http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp Nov 12 02:13:59 this kind of a silly bug though. The emulator launches ddms when it starts, but it looks like if java isn't installed and ddms fails, it just hangs the emulator (which shouldn't happen obviously) Nov 12 02:14:16 yeah 2nd link should be fine Nov 12 02:17:40 seems like my battery life is getting much longer Nov 12 02:17:52 i used my phone quite a bit today came home it was on 61% Nov 12 02:18:20 spikebike: i see on t-mob they have: "400 domestic text, picture, e-mail, or instant messages" Nov 12 02:18:41 i thought gtalk doesn't apply to the 400 Nov 12 02:18:53 elad: how? my battery dies like a fish in a desert Nov 12 02:19:12 Question: Any iota of news on the next batch of G1's? I broke my phone in half and need a replacement, but can't stand a recessed keyboard. Nov 12 02:19:13 sfuentes: correct Nov 12 02:19:48 seems to vary by phone Nov 12 02:19:54 I got 2 and they are pretty different Nov 12 02:20:06 how did you brake the phone/ Nov 12 02:20:07 ? Nov 12 02:20:12 (it wasn't a g1) Nov 12 02:20:12 better do it quick if you want root Nov 12 02:20:16 spikebike: so they made a mistake? Nov 12 02:20:16 oh Nov 12 02:20:31 ah Nov 12 02:20:54 I don't really care as much about root as i need a laptop replacement phone since my laptop also died, and Android is super-appealing since i'm *nixy Nov 12 02:21:36 well without root it's not really *nixy Nov 12 02:21:41 yea, it's a laptop/pc replacement for me too ... except for typing Nov 12 02:22:07 word docs n other specialized stuff like design/programming/research/etc Nov 12 02:22:22 but for casual computing, it's a total resplacement Nov 12 02:22:23 melvinram, I need do like 3 calibrations Nov 12 02:22:26 if i had a laptop i'd love it to be a tinker toy, but since i don't have a laptop i need it to be super-stable (aka latest updates to work out bugs) and high quality (good keyboard) Nov 12 02:22:29 need = did Nov 12 02:23:12 if it has a browser and an ssh client, i don't really need anything more :) i was considering an e61, but it would be about $120 used vs $180 for a new g1 with much more fetures Nov 12 02:24:47 Installed JDK but still same problem Nov 12 02:25:13 eerr i had android Nov 12 02:25:13 *hate Nov 12 02:25:58 if you type java in a terminal it doesn't find it? Nov 12 02:26:42 no it finds it Nov 12 02:27:01 so launching DDMS fails? Nov 12 02:27:34 http://www.pastie.org/312754 Nov 12 02:28:02 so i'm guessing android sdk doesn't work on 64bit Nov 12 02:28:06 oh Nov 12 02:28:15 ok try this Nov 12 02:28:18 launch eclipse Nov 12 02:28:25 yep Nov 12 02:28:43 go in the preferences, under android Nov 12 02:28:59 under "usage stats" Nov 12 02:29:12 change the check box (twice if you want to keep the same value) and click apply Nov 12 02:29:24 ok so its OT but the ozzie osbourne phone ads are funny as hell Nov 12 02:29:33 then close the pref dialog Nov 12 02:29:47 now try to launch the emulator again. Nov 12 02:30:40 That's just gonna send the data to Google... wont fix my problem Nov 12 02:30:46 but i did it anyway Nov 12 02:30:48 uncheck it doesn't matter Nov 12 02:31:24 the point is that the first time you launch the emulator/ddms they try to ask you whether you want to send the data, which uses SWT. If you set it from Eclipse, then it shouldn't display it and ddms won't fail to launch Nov 12 02:31:45 (the emulator exec ddms to do that display, which is what is messing up with the emulator launch) Nov 12 02:32:05 hmm Nov 12 02:32:10 at least I think it should work. Not 100% sure Nov 12 02:33:28 didn't work Nov 12 02:33:34 We've had people use the SDK on vista64 bit I don't know why it fail on your install Nov 12 02:33:45 hmm Nov 12 02:38:51 melvinram: you installed the 64bit version of the JDK? Nov 12 02:42:41 yep Nov 12 02:42:46 i think i found the solution Nov 12 02:42:50 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/9894b3ef3415570b/defd490ab40acbf9?lnk=gst&q=ddms#defd490ab40acbf9 Nov 12 02:43:12 yeah that's why. SWT has no support for 64bit. you need the 32 bit version Nov 12 02:43:15 i'm downloading the file right now Nov 12 02:43:28 it does but it's for linux Nov 12 02:43:48 but the guy says if you download n unzip the linux version, it will work Nov 12 02:43:49 so, all of my friends are freaking out about r30 Nov 12 02:43:50 that thread is different it's linux. there is a 64 bit version of SWT (which unfortunatly we do not package with the SDK, we need to fix this Nov 12 02:43:55 so i'm giving it a try Nov 12 02:44:11 what file are you downloading? Nov 12 02:44:18 xavd, you work for http://archive.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops/R-3.2-200606291905/download.php?dropFile=swt-3.2-gtk-linux-x86_64.zip Nov 12 02:44:30 oops, two messages got added together Nov 12 02:44:43 that's the linux SWT version. It won't work on your windows box. SWT requires native component Nov 12 02:44:51 xavd: do you work for Google Android team? Nov 12 02:45:00 SWT is a java based ui toolkit that is merely a wrapper over the native widgets Nov 12 02:45:01 yes Nov 12 02:45:13 so each platform needs a custom version of SWT Nov 12 02:45:21 well according to the guy that posted there, it worked so i'm giving it a shot Nov 12 02:46:10 that guy is running linux Nov 12 02:47:10 but the title of the post is "DDMS & 64bit Windows" Nov 12 02:48:00 aarr ... no go... guess you were right Nov 12 02:48:01 are you talking about http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/9894b3ef3415570b/defd490ab40acbf9?lnk=gst&q=ddms#defd490ab40acbf9 Nov 12 02:48:02 ? Nov 12 02:48:14 yes Nov 12 02:48:34 the title shows up as "ddms error" for me Nov 12 02:48:41 no mention of windows Nov 12 02:49:09 oh, nevermind... i was looking at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/28fcb99fc6bb54df/c49e6ebd5c8b00b6?lnk=raot Nov 12 02:49:23 I'll file a bug so that the system requirements at http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html mention the need for a 32 bit JVM Nov 12 02:49:57 so I can't use it on my 64bit machine? Nov 12 02:50:20 oh I see the mixup. the answer to the 64bit windows is athread about linux :( Nov 12 02:50:27 you should be able to run the 32bit JDK Nov 12 02:50:55 Your install of eclipse, which comes with its own JRE is 32bit (since there's no 64 bit version of SWT yet) Nov 12 02:51:23 ?? but it won't work in Eclipse either Nov 12 02:51:44 you mean the emulator won't work when launched from eclipse? this is normal Nov 12 02:51:51 i'm sorry for being a newbie n a pain Nov 12 02:52:18 when the emulator launches, it launches DDMS in the background. DDMS does not care about the JRE from Eclipse, it uses the one installed on the system (which in your case is 64bit) Nov 12 02:52:25 the emulator won't work from elcipse ... it hangs at "Waiting for home... " Nov 12 02:52:39 np, it's good for us to see those weird cases so that we can document them properly Nov 12 02:52:53 so when i install JDK 32bit, it should work, right? Nov 12 02:53:00 so anyway, don't worry about the emulator launch. just get the 32 bit JDK Nov 12 02:53:01 yes Nov 12 02:53:18 k Nov 12 02:55:06 It's downloading Nov 12 02:55:11 Btw, what's your name? Nov 12 02:55:45 Xavier, why? Nov 12 02:55:57 Just curious, I'm Mel Nov 12 02:57:08 his name is melvin Nov 12 02:57:16 but he is not from mars Nov 12 02:57:49 lol Nov 12 02:58:09 That's Marvin Nov 12 02:58:43 but it's so close! Nov 12 02:58:45 :) Nov 12 02:59:15 I wish I could load Android onto my Curve Nov 12 02:59:26 *Blackberry Curve Nov 12 02:59:54 form factor is much better **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 12 02:59:58 2008