**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 13 02:59:57 2008
Nov 13 02:59:58 <Chainfire> imho you do, but as stated above, this is not a google channel :)
Nov 13 03:00:01 <fnordg1> for now1
Nov 13 03:00:08 <rwhitby> romainguy_: is http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/core.git;a=tree;f=libpixelflinger;h=b2c3a1334130f14aa50319513c2488d26be95f6c;hb=HEAD what you were talking about?
Nov 13 03:00:10 <sfuentes> yeah don't provoke the sleeping giant
Nov 13 03:00:28 <Leeds> anyone, marketplace, not downloading?
Nov 13 03:00:39 <romainguy_> rwhitby: yes
Nov 13 03:00:41 <jbq> all right, my bus is reaching my parking lot, I'm signing off... bye!
Nov 13 03:00:52 <sfuentes> bye jbq
Nov 13 03:00:53 <fnordg1> Leeds: worked for me
Nov 13 03:01:11 <wastrel> does the back cover feel a little loose to anyone
Nov 13 03:01:11 <Chainfire> he must be a king at speedtyping on the G1 kb
Nov 13 03:01:16 <wastrel> mine feels like it wiggles a little
Nov 13 03:01:28 <wastrel> at the bottom
Nov 13 03:01:29 <rwhitby> romainguy_: what keywords should I search for in the source to find the bit which calls that pixelflinger library?
Nov 13 03:01:33 <Leeds> fnordg1: thanks
Nov 13 03:01:37 <sfuentes> wastrel: yeah me too
Nov 13 03:01:45 <wastrel> i dun like it
Nov 13 03:01:59 <romainguy> rwhitby: I have no idea, it's probably just SurfaceFlinger
Nov 13 03:02:02 <sfuentes> android, iphone, blackberry ... the competition is great!
Nov 13 03:02:25 <Chainfire> id take both symbian and wm >> iphone and bb
Nov 13 03:02:42 <rwhitby> romainguy: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree;f=cmds/surfaceflinger;h=632589ae2b7b0756263022c355197e9fdf07af07;hb=HEAD ?
Nov 13 03:03:03 <rwhitby> hmm - no, that doesnt' seem to be it
Nov 13 03:03:12 <romainguy> that's just the main executable
Nov 13 03:03:18 <romainguy> there must be a lib somewhere
Nov 13 03:03:27 <romainguy> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree;f=libs/surfaceflinger;h=686841e18fcbb5ec6b07b9bf84f8555db92e546f;hb=HEAD
Nov 13 03:04:25 <rwhitby> romainguy: thx heaps.
Nov 13 03:05:20 <sfuentes> how do u stop a song from playing? pls don't tell me to just leave it in pause
Nov 13 03:06:17 <Chainfire> romainguy is there an official gdb port anywhere?
Nov 13 03:06:35 * DarkriftX just popped another percocet
Nov 13 03:06:44 <DarkriftX> hopefully that will help
Nov 13 03:06:47 <Leeds> ooh, so good to just go and look at the code
Nov 13 03:06:59 <Chainfire> percocet?
Nov 13 03:07:07 <DarkriftX> oxycodone
Nov 13 03:07:19 <Chainfire> ahh.... /me scratches his head
Nov 13 03:07:29 <DarkriftX> pain meds
Nov 13 03:07:39 <Chainfire> whatcha do?
Nov 13 03:07:44 <DarkriftX> pneumonia
Nov 13 03:07:51 <Chainfire> ouch
Nov 13 03:07:57 <fnordg1> hmmm. it would b amusing to port gmailfs
Nov 13 03:08:04 <DarkriftX> giving me a bad headache from all the coughing
Nov 13 03:08:15 <Chainfire> fnordg1> make it able to store apps :D
Nov 13 03:08:25 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 13 03:08:50 <Leeds> heh
Nov 13 03:09:12 <fnordg1> yeah i dunno how it would handle tmo 3g screwups
Nov 13 03:09:36 <romainguy> Chainfire: gdb should be in the tree once you built it
Nov 13 03:10:07 <Chainfire> odd... perhaps I should updatedb
Nov 13 03:10:29 <Chainfire> either way nn folks, and thanks for all the info :)
Nov 13 03:11:22 <fnordg1> so is there a reason one cannot change gmail accts?
Nov 13 03:12:49 <spammy> hey all
Nov 13 03:13:18 <languish> <michaelnovakjr__> anyone else notice spam email coming in from their market apps?
Nov 13 03:13:19 <languish> yes
Nov 13 03:13:26 <languish> well
Nov 13 03:13:29 <languish> spam txt's
Nov 13 03:13:50 <languish> which I didn't get prior to installing apps. Just not sure which ones it is
Nov 13 03:13:51 <michaelnovakjr__> hm, i got the same email three times
Nov 13 03:14:04 <michaelnovakjr__> its from my posted app
Nov 13 03:14:09 <languish> though I have a pretty good idea
Nov 13 03:14:21 <fnordg1> no spam here
Nov 13 03:15:59 <KNY> weren't the G1s supposed to come with an ExtUSB -> headphone adapter?
Nov 13 03:16:17 <languish> KNY, the ones after the pre-order supposedly do
Nov 13 03:16:32 <languish> they didn't have the adaptors sourced in time for the pre-orders
Nov 13 03:16:52 <spammy> spam here
Nov 13 03:16:53 <KNY> I didn't pre-order, though I got mine at the same time as second-round pre-orders
Nov 13 03:16:54 <KNY> jerks
Nov 13 03:17:09 <sfuentes> me too
Nov 13 03:17:14 <spammy> so, anyone else running a non g1 phone with android?
Nov 13 03:17:18 <fnordg1> i didnt get on... no preorder
Nov 13 03:17:24 <KNY> spammy, what are you running on?
Nov 13 03:17:27 <languish> I still think t-mobile should provide them freely for anyone that didn't receive one who picks it up at the tmo store
Nov 13 03:17:29 <spammy> HTC Touch
Nov 13 03:17:41 <languish> but as I've said before, I'm cheap
Nov 13 03:17:43 <KNY> languish, I think I'll go ask when I'm at a store that stocks G1s in a few days
Nov 13 03:17:53 <languish> I know they're only a few $
Nov 13 03:17:56 <spammy> KNY, how do i @ a message to you
Nov 13 03:18:04 <languish> but I'd like to have an "official" one :D
Nov 13 03:18:05 <unix_remote> running on or want to run on.
Nov 13 03:18:06 <fnordg1> was i supposed to get one?
Nov 13 03:18:09 <KNY> spammy, @ a message to me? you mean /msg?
Nov 13 03:18:21 <languish> if it didn't come in the box, you weren't "supoosed" to get it
Nov 13 03:18:23 <thesquib> Does a view automatically scale to the size of the available screen, or does some kind of 'layout' have to be done?
Nov 13 03:18:34 <KNY> thesquib, fill_parent
Nov 13 03:18:38 <KNY> should do the trick
Nov 13 03:18:39 <fnordg1> yeah i figured
Nov 13 03:19:19 <fnordg1> not a biggie. my psp is better for music
Nov 13 03:20:10 <KNY> fnordg1, yeah, I wouldn't use it for music, but I still feel like I got gypped :)
Nov 13 03:20:57 <sfuentes> dumb question but does anyone know how to stop a song from playing? there's no stop button. just a pause button
Nov 13 03:21:12 <languish> sfuentes, pause :)
Nov 13 03:21:24 <languish> that's your stop, for now.
Nov 13 03:21:28 <fnordg1> yeah
Nov 13 03:21:31 <languish> then hit the back button to exit out of the app
Nov 13 03:21:31 <sfuentes> are u serious?
Nov 13 03:21:36 <languish> "for now"
Nov 13 03:21:38 <languish> but yes
Nov 13 03:21:45 <sfuentes> so it's always paused
Nov 13 03:21:51 <sfuentes> :/
Nov 13 03:21:53 <languish> unless you back out of it
Nov 13 03:21:55 <sfuentes> kinda weird
Nov 13 03:22:12 <languish> think of it as a feature, where you always start off where you left off
Nov 13 03:22:12 <sfuentes> well even if u back out of it its still running as paused in the background, right?
Nov 13 03:22:21 <languish> running, no.
Nov 13 03:22:23 <fnordg1> really with a better player and output it would be great
Nov 13 03:22:48 <languish> sfuentes, the way it was explained, it goes in to a sort of "save state"
Nov 13 03:23:01 <sfuentes> i see
Nov 13 03:23:14 <KNY> iPods don't have Stop buttons, do they?
Nov 13 03:23:15 <languish> then again, I wonder if that's true of the apps that run as services too
Nov 13 03:23:15 <fnordg1> and streaming support. shoutcast in your car
Nov 13 03:24:13 <incandenza> KNY: nope.  was going to mention that.
Nov 13 03:24:18 <sfuentes> KNY: they have power down :)
Nov 13 03:24:25 <fnordg1> xm? nyet!
Nov 13 03:24:51 <sfuentes> if ur ipod is not playing music it should be off IMO
Nov 13 03:25:03 <incandenza> I never deliberately power down my ipod.  you just pause it and it sleeps
Nov 13 03:25:15 <KNY> I don't really see how pause is different than stop, other than stop = pause and move to the beginning
Nov 13 03:25:21 <ttuttle> KNY: Precisely.
Nov 13 03:25:22 <incandenza> not sure I even remember the button combo for a shutdown
Nov 13 03:25:39 <KNY> incandenza, on my Touch it's power + home
Nov 13 03:25:43 <KNY> for like five seconds
Nov 13 03:26:08 <languish> <KNY> I don't really see how pause is different than stop, other than stop = pause and move to the beginning
Nov 13 03:26:08 <languish> [22:25] <ttuttle> KNY: Precisely.
Nov 13 03:26:22 <languish> in many programs, pause keeps the file being accessed locked
Nov 13 03:26:25 <languish> while stop releases it
Nov 13 03:26:36 <ttuttle> languish: From a user's point of view.
Nov 13 03:26:40 <languish> yes
Nov 13 03:26:55 <fnordg1>  
Nov 13 03:27:05 <KNY> fnordg1, I agree ;)
Nov 13 03:27:08 <spammy> so, is everyone in here developing apps?
Nov 13 03:27:14 <KNY> not everyone
Nov 13 03:27:16 <ttuttle> spammy: no
Nov 13 03:27:20 <ttuttle> spammy: I'm writing a kernel.
Nov 13 03:27:22 <fnordg1> >.>
Nov 13 03:27:24 <languish> in windows for example, you cannot delete a paused mp3 in many players. (yes I know.. windows.. it's just an example..mmmkay)
Nov 13 03:27:35 <spammy> ttuttle really?
Nov 13 03:27:51 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - linux wasn't good enough, huh?
Nov 13 03:27:54 <ttuttle> spammy: Yeah, for Operating Systems.
Nov 13 03:27:59 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Oh, no, Linux is better than this ;-)
Nov 13 03:27:59 <spammy> ahhhhhh
Nov 13 03:28:10 <spammy> ttuttle, i hate that course
Nov 13 03:28:18 <ttuttle> spammy: Er, which university?
Nov 13 03:28:27 <spammy> ttuttle, University of Wisconsin Eau Claire
Nov 13 03:28:31 <ttuttle> spammy: Ah.
Nov 13 03:28:37 <spammy> ttuttle you?
Nov 13 03:28:41 <ttuttle> spammy: Carnegie Mellon.
Nov 13 03:28:59 <spammy> ttuttle, that's an incredible school
Nov 13 03:29:08 <ttuttle> spammy: Yeah, it's pretty nice.
Nov 13 03:29:21 <spammy> ttuttle how long have you been a CS student?
Nov 13 03:29:29 <fnordg1> how to disable kbdled timeout? =[
Nov 13 03:29:47 <ttuttle> spammy: I'm nearly halfway through sophomore year, but I've been doing CS/programming since elementary school.
Nov 13 03:29:53 <ttuttle> fnordg1: jiggle the trackball?
Nov 13 03:30:04 <fnordg1> =[
Nov 13 03:30:11 <spammy> ttuttle, i have an odd question, but did you ever have a coure with Randy Pausch?
Nov 13 03:30:25 <ttuttle> spammy: No, unfortunately.
Nov 13 03:30:53 <KNY> my grandma asked me for his book for christmas
Nov 13 03:30:55 <ttuttle> spammy: Had I had been able to see the future, I would've steamrolled any number of advisors to end up in one of his classes.
Nov 13 03:31:02 <KNY> she used to babysit his mentor or something
Nov 13 03:31:08 <spammy> ttuttle, thats too bad, from what i've read in his book, he has a lot to teach
Nov 13 03:31:15 <spammy> incredible book by the way
Nov 13 03:31:24 <ttuttle> Yeah.  I haven't read the book yet, but the speech was amazing.
Nov 13 03:31:32 <unix_remote> one of my friends ended up in one of his classes.
Nov 13 03:31:58 <unix_remote> he's got a spiffy new startup coming out next year...going to change gaming, imho.
Nov 13 03:32:02 <unix_remote> casual gaming*
Nov 13 03:32:19 <ttuttle> unix_remote: Oh?
Nov 13 03:32:25 <spammy> hmm
Nov 13 03:32:43 <unix_remote> too bad I'm not cool enough to get into CMU ;-P
Nov 13 03:33:13 <KNY> unix_remote, you and me both :(
Nov 13 03:33:19 <spammy> ditto
Nov 13 03:33:26 <KNY> got the wait list from them
Nov 13 03:33:43 <cbeust_>  Which Pausch book are you guys talking about?
Nov 13 03:33:46 <KNY> so they're a bunch of jerks, and by extension, ttuttle is as well
Nov 13 03:34:05 <unix_remote> it's reassuring to know that many of the greatest innovators of the last couple decades dropped out of their respective schools / programs.
Nov 13 03:34:05 <spammy> i was talking about The Last Lecture book
Nov 13 03:34:17 <KNY> same
Nov 13 03:34:33 <unix_remote> though, it's probably because they were ahead of their time instead of not up the standards of the academic standards of the last couple decades ;-)
Nov 13 03:34:41 <romainguy> unix_remote: and many probably didn't :)
Nov 13 03:35:17 <unix_remote> romainguy: and many probably didnt have a program / school to speak of...
Nov 13 03:35:18 <spammy> ttuttle so tell me about this kernel
Nov 13 03:36:09 <fnordg1> n
Nov 13 03:36:18 <fnordg1> whops
Nov 13 03:36:24 <fnordg1> whoops
Nov 13 03:36:53 <spammy> anybody wanna get me the market apk? please?!
Nov 13 03:37:21 <ttuttle> spammy: It doesn't work on the emulator.
Nov 13 03:37:37 <ttuttle> spammy: So, the OS... it's Project 3 for http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~410/.
Nov 13 03:38:07 <Hiro2> anybody purchased insurace on their G1?
Nov 13 03:38:33 <ttuttle> Hiro2: no
Nov 13 03:38:40 <Hiro2> hey
Nov 13 03:38:43 <Hiro2> well, your special case
Nov 13 03:38:44 <Hiro2> :D
Nov 13 03:38:51 <ttuttle> Hiro2: Um, no, I'm not.
Nov 13 03:38:53 <Hiro2> but, do you think I should?
Nov 13 03:38:54 <spammy> nice the dinosaur book
Nov 13 03:38:58 <ttuttle> Hiro2: If my phone broke, I'd have to spend more to get a new one.
Nov 13 03:39:11 <ttuttle> spammy: Yeah, it's a nice book.
Nov 13 03:39:26 <Hiro2> ttuttle: do you think i should get insurance on it?
Nov 13 03:39:58 <cbeust_> Is the insurance a TMobile thing? How much?
Nov 13 03:40:04 <RyeBrye> The insurance? look at the prices and the deductibles - I think it's $130 to replace a smartphone
Nov 13 03:40:13 <ttuttle> Hiro2: If it's $130 to replace it, don't.
Nov 13 03:40:14 <spammy> tuttle: definatly, my professors description of dining philosophers made absolutely no sense to me until i took a look in the dinosaur book
Nov 13 03:40:24 <ttuttle> spammy: Heh.
Nov 13 03:40:26 <fnordg1> 5/mo, 150 deductable
Nov 13 03:40:35 <ttuttle> Hiro2: I'd skip it.
Nov 13 03:40:38 <RyeBrye> Rule of thumb: Never buy insurance for something you can afford to replace out of pocket
Nov 13 03:40:41 <spammy> wow, thats awful
Nov 13 03:40:54 <RyeBrye> The reason is is so awful is because it covers 'loss' also
Nov 13 03:40:56 <spammy> over at Sprint it's only 50 to replace a broken or stolen phone with insurance
Nov 13 03:41:01 <ttuttle> Hiro2: Take your $5/mo and put it in your bank account.  After 6 months you will be able to pay the $30 difference between $150 and $180.
Nov 13 03:41:04 <orci> google calendar is having sync problems, can I see what the error message is?
Nov 13 03:41:07 <ttuttle> Hrm...
Nov 13 03:41:18 <ttuttle> You'd have to buy a no-contract G1, which is $400.
Nov 13 03:41:26 <StyleWarz> anyone knows where to find a working N810 kernel image? like with touchscreen and stuff ;)
Nov 13 03:41:29 <ttuttle> May be worth it, if you're likely to lose it.
Nov 13 03:41:33 <incandenza> right; wouldn't be $180 the second time
Nov 13 03:41:35 <RyeBrye> After a year, you can get an upgrade again
Nov 13 03:42:18 <fnordg1> heh i got it cuz i tinker with recovery src etc
Nov 13 03:42:33 <thesquib> how can I apply fill_parent in code?
Nov 13 03:42:43 <Hiro2> I dont think I'll loose it
Nov 13 03:42:43 <spammy> tuttle: if those philosophers were so smart why didn't they just get some forks anyway
Nov 13 03:42:54 <Hiro2> but I feel like it's going to break soon, the whole G1 hardware feels cheap
Nov 13 03:43:14 <romainguy> thesquib: ViewGroup.LayoutParams.FILL_PARENT
Nov 13 03:43:17 * ttuttle doesn't understand it... are philosophers that poor?
Nov 13 03:43:24 <spammy> haha
Nov 13 03:43:32 <romainguy> spammy: or eat with their hands and be done with it
Nov 13 03:43:49 <ttuttle> romainguy: heh
Nov 13 03:44:01 <spammy> maybe if they quit just sitting around thinking and got a darn job we wouldnt have this problem anyway
Nov 13 03:44:05 <thesquib> (to a view)
Nov 13 03:44:35 <unix_remote> how much for "warranty" i know Apple has a ~70 applecare plan for the 3g?
Nov 13 03:44:52 <unix_remote> iirc, 2 years for the extended.
Nov 13 03:46:08 <spammy> is there any planned android support for ActiveSync / Exchange Servers?
Nov 13 03:46:14 <spammy> push email and all that
Nov 13 03:47:14 <ismarc> spammy: I'm going to make an educated guess of no for ActiveSync support
Nov 13 03:47:38 <ismarc> or if there is, it'll be a closed-source, pay-for application
Nov 13 03:47:55 <spammy> ismarc damn, thats th only thing i'd miss from Windows Mobile
Nov 13 03:48:06 <ismarc> ActiveSync isn't an open API, and requires licensing
Nov 13 03:48:59 <ismarc> if I had an army of lawyers tell me that reverse engineering the protocol and making an open-source client wouldn't get me in trouble, I'd do it
Nov 13 03:49:18 <ismarc> but I don't have an army of lawyers
Nov 13 03:49:23 <ismarc> and they probably wouldn't say that
Nov 13 03:49:39 <spammy> ismarc, you currently working on any apps?
Nov 13 03:49:58 <ismarc> I have proof-of-concept support for Exchange WebDAV support going
Nov 13 03:50:17 <ismarc> depending on free time, hoping to have it cleaned up and ready for patch submission fairly quickly
Nov 13 03:50:38 <spammy> id love to start working on an app, but thats just it... no free time
Nov 13 03:50:51 <artyexpert> I've heard that before...
Nov 13 03:50:56 <thesquib> I got disconnected.. How can I apply fill_parent in code? I can see how to using XML
Nov 13 03:51:01 <ismarc> I've got like, 8-10 hours a week I can work on it
Nov 13 03:51:02 <thesquib> (to a view)
Nov 13 03:51:12 <romainguy> thesquib: see ViewGroup.LayoutParams.FILL_PARENT
Nov 13 03:51:14 <Leeds> ttuttle: are no-contract G1s actually available?
Nov 13 03:51:26 <artyexpert> I've heard so.
Nov 13 03:51:49 <artyexpert> Went in T-mobile yesterday and they can sell you one full price.
Nov 13 03:52:28 <Hiro2> what do you guys think about the new blackberry?
Nov 13 03:52:28 <artyexpert> The problem is, finding a store with them in stock...
Nov 13 03:52:39 <artyexpert> Meh...
Nov 13 03:52:49 <artyexpert> Rubbish to both.
Nov 13 03:53:02 <Hiro2> haha, my coworkers are saying once they get it they'll beat my G1
Nov 13 03:53:04 <ismarc> Hiro2: I need a physical keyboard if I'm going to do any sort of typing beyond "google.com"
Nov 13 03:53:07 <spammy> anyone doing a project on a subversion server, with maybe a team
Nov 13 03:53:15 <Hiro2> ismarc: lol
Nov 13 03:53:32 <artyexpert> My personal phone is the Blackberry Curve 8830 and would love to trade for a G1
Nov 13 03:54:00 <Hiro2> I wish theres a way to rigg the contract so I could distribute G1s cheaper than full price
Nov 13 03:54:28 <BHSPitMonkey> artyexpert, there's no shortage of disgruntled users around here from time to time, I'm sure you'll find a taker if you stay long enough
Nov 13 03:54:29 <artyexpert> My rep tells me you can get a discount if you renew your contract, but it only takes off 50 bucks.
Nov 13 03:55:04 <artyexpert> Is the G1 really that bad?... is the question...
Nov 13 03:55:16 <languish> the camera is.
Nov 13 03:55:24 <ttuttle> Leeds: I heard they're $400.
Nov 13 03:55:26 <languish> and there's a distinct lack of functionality
Nov 13 03:55:32 <artyexpert> So is the blackberry's!
Nov 13 03:55:33 <languish> so it depends on your needs
Nov 13 03:55:35 <ismarc> the G1's exactly what I was looking for in a phone
Nov 13 03:55:38 <artyexpert> AND the iPhone.
Nov 13 03:55:42 <languish> but the G1 works as a phone.
Nov 13 03:55:52 <ismarc> but I spent 6-8 months deciding what I wanted, first
Nov 13 03:56:11 <orci> I deleted all calendar items and still sync problems, any ideas?
Nov 13 03:56:31 <artyexpert> Now that is one thing I did like about the Blackberry, killer phone.
Nov 13 03:56:36 <languish> orci, exactly what sync problem?
Nov 13 03:56:43 <BHSPitMonkey> I was surprised to hear some people having a conversation about the G1 on the bus today.  Normal people, mind you, this was not the bus to the engineering campus.
Nov 13 03:56:45 <languish> orci and did you check logcat?
Nov 13 03:56:46 <ttuttle> The camera's resolution is great, but the sensitivity isn't high enough, so the shutter speed is too long, which results in blurry images.
Nov 13 03:56:46 <spammy> nice chatting with all of you
Nov 13 03:56:51 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: Nice!
Nov 13 03:56:54 <ttuttle> spammy: see ya!
Nov 13 03:56:54 <spammy> have a good one
Nov 13 03:57:12 <BHSPitMonkey> ttuttle, yeah, they seemed to have a positive view of it.
Nov 13 03:57:13 <artyexpert> I work in a web shot and I can say the G1 is our centerfold on the wall...
Nov 13 03:57:17 <Leeds> ttuttle: I *heard* that, but I'm not aware that they are actually available
Nov 13 03:57:31 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: Yeah.  I find most non-techies like it.
Nov 13 03:57:32 <languish> ttuttle, and the lack of low light sensitivity
Nov 13 03:57:38 <BHSPitMonkey> "I heard it can do everything the iPhone does"
Nov 13 03:57:41 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: But most techies find no shortage of things to complain about.
Nov 13 03:57:43 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: ;-)
Nov 13 03:57:49 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: That, and it doesn't even eat your soul!
Nov 13 03:57:57 <artyexpert> That's why people like it, it's an iPhone not on AT&T.
Nov 13 03:58:04 <BHSPitMonkey> ttuttle, I'm getting an iPhone next week!
Nov 13 03:58:10 <Leeds> by the way, something I was a little surprised about last night...
Nov 13 03:58:12 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: /me is not amused.
Nov 13 03:58:21 <languish> non techies love the G1, until they have a problem, have to master reset the G1, then lose all their app data.
Nov 13 03:58:23 <BHSPitMonkey> ttuttle, not to replace my lovely HTC phone, though.
Nov 13 03:58:26 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: Oh.
Nov 13 03:58:35 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: good
Nov 13 03:58:45 <Leeds> I was showing off my phone in the pub, when one of my mates decided to show me my place by buying a Britney Spears song from the Amazon store...
Nov 13 03:58:47 <languish> _g
Nov 13 03:58:48 <languish> lol
Nov 13 03:58:57 <BHSPitMonkey> ttuttle, I'm getting passed down from my cousin, who broke the glass on his
Nov 13 03:59:00 <languish> michaelnovakjr_g, it works. now gimme.
Nov 13 03:59:01 <languish> :D
Nov 13 03:59:09 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: ah
Nov 13 03:59:11 <BHSPitMonkey> ttuttle, gonna use for hacking
Nov 13 03:59:25 <ecubuntu> hello guys, any body know about android in spanish channel?
Nov 13 03:59:25 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: good
Nov 13 03:59:30 <Leeds> I was rather surprised when it worked... given that I'm a long way from the US, and I've had to use a proxy to get to the Amazon MP3 store from my PC
Nov 13 03:59:46 <ttuttle> ecubuntu: There seems to be #android-es, but nobody's there.
Nov 13 03:59:47 <languish> lol
Nov 13 03:59:55 <artyexpert> Question to the G1 owners in the room:
Nov 13 04:00:05 <ecubuntu> loool i know ttuttle
Nov 13 04:00:18 <languish> artyexpert, wow.. how many people are in that room with you
Nov 13 04:00:19 <artyexpert> "Would you trade your G1 for an iPhone?..."
Nov 13 04:00:22 <ttuttle> artyexpert: Never.
Nov 13 04:00:27 <languish> artyexpert, no.
Nov 13 04:00:29 <BHSPitMonkey> artyexpert, no, they wouldn't
Nov 13 04:00:35 <ecubuntu> never
Nov 13 04:00:37 <BHSPitMonkey> hence they are here
Nov 13 04:00:39 <romainguy> artyexpert: I did the other way around :)
Nov 13 04:00:41 <artyexpert> "even if it was unlocked..."
Nov 13 04:00:47 <ecubuntu> artyexpert,
Nov 13 04:00:50 <BHSPitMonkey> now go to #iphone-dev and ask the opposite
Nov 13 04:00:57 <languish> artyexpert, I have a million complaints about the G1. But the IPhone *never* interested me.
Nov 13 04:01:04 <ExpiredPopsicle> Only if the iPhone did something awesome like shot lasers and missiles.
Nov 13 04:01:10 <romainguy> languish: just a million? :)
Nov 13 04:01:13 <ExpiredPopsicle> Then maybe.... Maybe.
Nov 13 04:01:24 <languish> romainguy, hey, they're steadily being reduced :)
Nov 13 04:01:27 <wastrel> the g1 is horrible
Nov 13 04:01:30 <wastrel> just horrible
Nov 13 04:01:31 <artyexpert> I could ask the apple room, but I KNOW there response...
Nov 13 04:01:32 <wastrel> ;]
Nov 13 04:01:39 <ttuttle> Even then... I'd just pester romainguy to add lasers and missles to the next OTA.
Nov 13 04:01:48 <wastrel> sorry i meant, the G1 is the best android phone i've ever used
Nov 13 04:01:50 <romainguy> I'll add that to ListView
Nov 13 04:01:51 <artyexpert> I run a mac and I know the crazys on the apple side of things...
Nov 13 04:01:58 <languish> wastrel, lulz
Nov 13 04:02:05 <eugene> surprised that this channel is alive at this time of the day :)
Nov 13 04:02:16 <ttuttle> ecubuntu: It's only 2300 EST.
Nov 13 04:02:20 <wastrel> it's only 8pm in california
Nov 13 04:02:41 <ismarc> ExpiredPopsicle: iPhone would have to transform into a robot that killed people with lasers and rockets before I'd own one
Nov 13 04:02:44 <Leeds> it's 12 noon here
Nov 13 04:02:46 <eugene> it's 12pm here
Nov 13 04:02:52 <KNY> eugene, this is international
Nov 13 04:03:03 <wastrel> Leeds: did you compile fbreader?
Nov 13 04:03:15 <Leeds> don't confuse "android" with "The G1 phone on T-Mobile in the US"
Nov 13 04:03:20 <ttuttle> Leeds++
Nov 13 04:03:23 <eugene> leeds: wkny: yup :)
Nov 13 04:03:38 <Leeds> wastrel: nah - I'm using the packaged version right now... I was at the pub last night, no time to play...
Nov 13 04:03:49 <wastrel> Leeds: does it save your place in the books?
Nov 13 04:03:50 <artyexpert> Now better question: Webkit on Android vs Safari on the iPhone/iPod, which is "useably" better?
Nov 13 04:03:57 <wastrel> it doesn't mine if the app is killed
Nov 13 04:03:58 <KNY> Leeds, did you not get service in the pub or something? ;)
Nov 13 04:04:08 <Leeds> wastrel: erm... don't think so, no
Nov 13 04:04:09 <ExpiredPopsicle> ismarc: Wouldn't that make it an android? :V
Nov 13 04:04:17 <wastrel> v. frustrating
Nov 13 04:04:19 <languish> artyexpert, G1 has a keyboard, no comparison.
Nov 13 04:04:20 <KNY> artyexpert, Android, though I do wish the G1 had multitouch
Nov 13 04:04:22 <Leeds> KNY: I get vodka in the pub...
Nov 13 04:04:28 <ismarc> ExpiredPopsicle: ok, you caught me there
Nov 13 04:04:29 <orci> languish, no I'll check now what logcat is
Nov 13 04:04:35 <ExpiredPopsicle> hehe
Nov 13 04:04:37 <Leeds> wastrel: exactly the sort of thing which should be relatively easily fixable
Nov 13 04:04:50 <wastrel> indeed
Nov 13 04:04:52 <orci> languish, I check the sync part in settings and there is red ! there all the time for calendar
Nov 13 04:04:53 <artyexpert> Cause right now, I'm building mobile pages for both, and considering the UI for "both" interfaces...
Nov 13 04:04:58 <languish> orci ok ;)
Nov 13 04:05:04 <romainguy> KNY: multitouch is seriously overrated
Nov 13 04:05:05 <romainguy> imho
Nov 13 04:05:11 <Leeds> artyexpert: from that point of view, they should be broadly similr
Nov 13 04:05:13 <romainguy> it was driving me *nuts* in the iPhone browser
Nov 13 04:05:14 <languish> orci, strange
Nov 13 04:05:20 <KNY> romainguy, I know, but I still catch myself trying to do the two-finger spread to zoom in
Nov 13 04:05:22 <RyeBrye> The coolest application of multitouch I've seen was the controller for the NES emulator on the iPhone
Nov 13 04:05:49 <artyexpert> Yes but, there's the "Apple" way of a moble page, and Android, "multiple" ways of controlling a site.
Nov 13 04:05:53 <KNY> the Android browser smokes mobile safari, though
Nov 13 04:05:59 <RyeBrye> ?
Nov 13 04:06:13 <RyeBrye> The Browser on the G1 is good, but if you have a lot of other stuff going it seems a little chunky
Nov 13 04:06:19 <RyeBrye> not super smooth
Nov 13 04:06:33 <orci> languish, unable to open log device /dev/log/main
Nov 13 04:06:41 <orci> languish, perm denied
Nov 13 04:06:42 <wastrel> needs to be able to read html off the sd card
Nov 13 04:06:44 <wastrel> pls
Nov 13 04:06:48 <wastrel> is that a feature request yet?
Nov 13 04:06:51 <Leeds> by the way, for anyone who was concerned about my earlier reported marketplain problems... I rebooted and it's fine now
Nov 13 04:06:51 <KNY> RyeBrye, I love that you can hit menu to get to the address bar. On the i(pod|touch) you have to scroll all the way back to the top
Nov 13 04:06:54 <orci> languish, I do not have root
Nov 13 04:06:55 <Leeds> wastrel: seconded
Nov 13 04:07:10 <RyeBrye> KNY - ok, that is a good point.
Nov 13 04:07:24 <RyeBrye> I really want a "find in page" option :)
Nov 13 04:07:33 <KNY> that would be nice
Nov 13 04:07:44 <KNY> and I must say, browsing the the trackball is awesome
Nov 13 04:08:04 <artyexpert> KNY, right, the Apple way of setting up an iPhone page is like building a settings menu for the iPhone, "big horizontal buttons that drill down the site, Android is just a zoomed out webpage, that works kinda like my blackberry.
Nov 13 04:08:07 <Leeds> yeah, the ball has been a very nice surprise
Nov 13 04:08:21 <languish> orci, you don't need root to check logcat.  You need to install the SDK, and if you use windows, the windows driver.
Nov 13 04:08:35 <languish> orci, then you connect the phone, and run adb logcat
Nov 13 04:08:39 <languish> (from DOS)
Nov 13 04:08:45 <languish> aka: command prompt
Nov 13 04:08:49 <romainguy> I love the trackball to go through tons of email :)
Nov 13 04:08:51 <KNY> artyexpert, just design both to be usable with fingers and you should be set
Nov 13 04:09:48 <After_Math> so when will someone come out with a video recorder????
Nov 13 04:10:00 <Leeds> DOS???
Nov 13 04:10:03 <KNY> as soon as you write one, After_Math
Nov 13 04:10:13 <After_Math> KNY, haha I really wish I could
Nov 13 04:10:19 <languish> orci http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html
Nov 13 04:10:29 <ismarc> I was gonna say, as soon as someone gives me a use for it beyond "So I can video tape my friends being drunk"
Nov 13 04:10:38 <languish> Leeds, I'm speaking newb
Nov 13 04:10:43 <languish> so he comprehends
Nov 13 04:10:55 <ttuttle> ismarc: that's a good use.  drunk people are funny.
Nov 13 04:11:12 <ismarc> ttuttle: only when you're drunk, too...not the next day when you sober up
Nov 13 04:11:12 <languish> There is a video recorder
Nov 13 04:11:14 <languish> for android
Nov 13 04:11:17 <artyexpert> KNY, right but my fear is this:  If Sprint, or T-mobile comes out with another "Android" device that's isn't a touchscreen, and changes the UI for phone to where I can't use what I have, I would have angry clients complaining about Android compatibility.  Cause we know there on the way.
Nov 13 04:11:21 <orci> languish, I use GNU/Linux and SDK is installed
Nov 13 04:11:26 <After_Math> languish, where?
Nov 13 04:11:28 <After_Math> orci?
Nov 13 04:11:34 <languish> After_Math, I'll get the link, one sec
Nov 13 04:11:43 <orci> After_Math, yes?
Nov 13 04:11:52 <KNY> artyexpert, just because you can't touch doesn't mean you can't use the trackball...
Nov 13 04:11:53 <orci> languish, just mount sdcard and run logcat in sdk?
Nov 13 04:12:02 <After_Math> languish, cool thanks, sorry orci nothing :)
Nov 13 04:12:07 <KNY> orci, you don't need to mount
Nov 13 04:12:12 <orci> KNY, ok
Nov 13 04:12:15 <KNY> just plug in, `adb logcat`
Nov 13 04:12:40 <artyexpert> KNY, true or a d-pad for that matter, I think I've been working on this site too long... O_O
Nov 13 04:12:44 <After_Math> also, I get a message saying I have low phone memory, I though when you installed packages it installed them on the sd card?
Nov 13 04:13:07 <languish> orci, settings, applications, development. Enable USB Debugging.  Then use adb logcat
Nov 13 04:13:07 <romainguy> nope
Nov 13 04:13:18 <KNY> I must say though, Apple's number-pickers (the spinner doohickeys) whoop Android's
Nov 13 04:13:35 <KNY> for date/time pickers
Nov 13 04:13:44 <artyexpert> I just like the iPhone's SDK over Apple's, it's just a bit more polished...
Nov 13 04:13:54 <artyexpert> err Android I mean :)
Nov 13 04:14:03 <KNY> artyexpert, I don't have a mac, so the only SDK I've used is gcc on a jailbroken touch :)
Nov 13 04:14:36 <artyexpert> Oh god... it's like an Adobe remade visual studio, it's EPIC!
Nov 13 04:14:39 <languish> After_Math, these are the peeps working on video recorder for android.. http://sadko.mobi/camline/index.html
Nov 13 04:14:49 <After_Math> languish, cool thanks man
Nov 13 04:14:53 <languish> np
Nov 13 04:15:20 <orci> languish, thanks I did those and ran sync but still adb logcat says waiting for device, should i reboot android after usb debug is enabled?
Nov 13 04:15:43 <KNY> orci, run `adb devices`
Nov 13 04:15:44 <languish> orci no
Nov 13 04:15:52 <languish> do as KNY says
Nov 13 04:16:20 <orci> KNY, hmm it does not list my device, it is connected though, let me reconnect
Nov 13 04:16:20 <KNY> excellent. orci, mail me $100
Nov 13 04:16:25 <KNY> orci, what OS?
Nov 13 04:16:30 <orci> GNU/Linux
Nov 13 04:16:50 <KNY> orci, http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware
Nov 13 04:16:51 <languish> orci, do you have another pc or laptop vailable?
Nov 13 04:17:00 <languish> *available
Nov 13 04:17:03 <KNY> you probably have to configure your OS
Nov 13 04:17:08 <languish> or that
Nov 13 04:17:23 <ismarc> orci: Is the G1 mounted as a usb device?
Nov 13 04:17:32 <ismarc> err, more, is the filesystem on it mounted
Nov 13 04:17:40 <orci> languish, no
Nov 13 04:17:50 <orci> ismarc, I did not mount the sdcard if that's what you are asking
Nov 13 04:17:57 <languish> orci, ok you've got some work ahead of you, follow the link that KNY gave you
Nov 13 04:18:05 <joakime> iirc, just the path to /sdcard/ can be mounted as a usb mass storage device.
Nov 13 04:18:16 <KNY> joakime, that's not what we're trying to do
Nov 13 04:18:42 <orci> KNY, ok thank you, thanks languish
Nov 13 04:18:49 * artyexpert laughs, "I can't wait to see an Android developer plug in for Visual studio"...
Nov 13 04:19:20 <languish> np
Nov 13 04:20:35 <languish> OOOOoOO
Nov 13 04:20:38 <languish> new app in market
Nov 13 04:20:47 <wastrel> share your whiteboard?
Nov 13 04:21:11 <languish> no, polyglotz
Nov 13 04:22:23 <languish> hahah I love this HUGE button with a tiny [ok] in the center on polyglotz settings
Nov 13 04:22:31 <languish> lmao
Nov 13 04:22:49 <artyexpert> UI design at it's greatest... *sigh*
Nov 13 04:22:55 <orci> languish, now logcat works. any ideas about this? E/Sync    (15904): The requested URL <code>/calendar/feeds/user@gmail.com/private/full-selfattendance...</code> was not found on this server.
Nov 13 04:22:57 <languish> nah dude, this is good
Nov 13 04:23:00 <languish> i like it
Nov 13 04:23:02 <languish> but it's funny
Nov 13 04:23:22 <languish> orci, ahh "user@gmail" is the problem
Nov 13 04:23:35 <languish> orci, where are you? state/country?
Nov 13 04:23:52 <orci> languish, heh I changed that it is actually my username@gmail.com, no problem there
Nov 13 04:24:00 <languish> ahh
Nov 13 04:24:03 <languish> ok
Nov 13 04:24:10 <artyexpert> Every time I see one of those I think visually to myself a large sized ok button with the words "F- you" in it's stead.
Nov 13 04:24:23 <elad> japanese white wine++
Nov 13 04:24:35 <languish> heh
Nov 13 04:24:47 <orci> languish, MA/USA
Nov 13 04:24:54 <KNY> yuck, look at the abomination of flags at the bottom of the settings page
Nov 13 04:25:56 <KNY> haha, drill into one of the list items and then hit back
Nov 13 04:25:59 <KNY> and the app crashes
Nov 13 04:26:01 <artyexpert> {sarcasm} - Would you like to submit your contact info... "F- you",  Sign up for our free newsletter, "F- you"... I so need to see that in a site some time.
Nov 13 04:27:09 <umdk1d3> hmm is there a ISO two-letter language code for klingon?
Nov 13 04:27:39 <wastrel> ND?
Nov 13 04:27:41 <wastrel> (nerd)
Nov 13 04:27:53 <KNY> wasabi, I was doing to DR for dork
Nov 13 04:27:56 <Leeds> there is space reserved for it in the unicode codespace
Nov 13 04:27:57 <KNY> :)
Nov 13 04:28:05 <umdk1d3> Leeds: awesome  :)
Nov 13 04:28:19 <wasabi> not me
Nov 13 04:28:21 <umdk1d3> yea im not seeing it in the ISO list tho  :/
Nov 13 04:28:23 <Leeds> also, for a couple of elvish alphabets
Nov 13 04:29:06 <wastrel> i am thirsty
Nov 13 04:29:07 <Leeds> ah, it's an unofficial reservation
Nov 13 04:29:11 <wastrel> need that beer app
Nov 13 04:29:15 <artyexpert> HA!  They do have Klingon for ISO!
Nov 13 04:29:18 <umdk1d3> oh wait, there *is* a klingon
Nov 13 04:29:23 <umdk1d3> "tlh"
Nov 13 04:29:35 <wastrel> that's 3 letters
Nov 13 04:29:42 <umdk1d3> no swedish chef tho  :/
Nov 13 04:29:54 <Leeds> http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/klingon.html
Nov 13 04:30:41 <artyexpert> KX is the Klingon ISO.
Nov 13 04:31:44 <wastrel> is there an article about running a debugger outside of eclipse?
Nov 13 04:34:13 <umdk1d3> artyexpert: klingon doesnt appear to have a ISO 639-1 two-letter designation
Nov 13 04:34:30 <wastrel> is there a way to "view message source" in gmail?
Nov 13 04:34:35 <wastrel> or at least full headers
Nov 13 04:35:30 <umdk1d3> wastrel: yea its in the drop down arrow button in upper right corner of email
Nov 13 04:35:37 <KNY> wasabi, View Original
Nov 13 04:35:42 <KNY> wastrel, *
Nov 13 04:35:56 <wastrel> ah teeny arrow thx
Nov 13 04:36:55 <wastrel> just wondering what braindead mailer my father in law is using
Nov 13 04:37:00 <wastrel> should have figured - outlook
Nov 13 04:37:35 <wastrel> sends the message with no plaintext part, i get 3 attachments
Nov 13 04:39:56 <languish> :|
Nov 13 04:40:05 <languish> srsly. I h8 outlook
Nov 13 04:40:51 <languish> DarkriftX
Nov 13 04:44:15 <orci> can use adb to get a list of applications installed before soing a master reset?
Nov 13 04:46:18 <umdk1d3> orci: this might work     adb -d shell ls /data/app/
Nov 13 04:47:44 <orci> umdk1d3, perm denied, requires root I guess
Nov 13 04:48:32 <umdk1d3> hmm ouch
Nov 13 04:48:42 <umdk1d3> there is an xml file somewhere that contains all installed package info
Nov 13 04:48:48 <umdk1d3> that might be locked down too
Nov 13 04:49:48 <umdk1d3> you could roll through the installed app list and take snapshots for each page
Nov 13 04:50:03 <orci> please add to any wishlist: I need a checkbox, "I accept the burden of having root access" :)
Nov 13 04:51:46 <orci> umdk1d3, /system/app lists some apps but not sure if all is there
Nov 13 04:52:34 <umdk1d3> orci: iirc everything in system is just the core apps, not any from market
Nov 13 05:01:49 <dct2000> is any way to downgrade to rc29 from rc30?
Nov 13 05:02:45 <wastrel> if you have root :]
Nov 13 05:03:10 <sodenrox> why would you wanna downgrade?
Nov 13 05:03:17 <wastrel> to get root
Nov 13 05:03:25 <sodenrox> lol
Nov 13 05:03:32 <geist> step 1: get root, step 2: ?
Nov 13 05:03:35 <wastrel> yeah bit of a chicken and egg situation
Nov 13 05:03:43 <dct2000> my tethering is nolonger works
Nov 13 05:03:48 <After_Math> why cant I download a .apk attachment in my email?
Nov 13 05:03:49 <sodenrox> i got root then rc30
Nov 13 05:03:58 <wastrel> ah
Nov 13 05:04:00 <sodenrox> su rocx
Nov 13 05:04:01 <sodenrox> rox
Nov 13 05:05:25 <dct2000> google told us - g1 will be wild open for everybody
Nov 13 05:05:41 <dct2000> doesnt look like, spy phone for sure
Nov 13 05:05:49 <sodenrox> spy!
Nov 13 05:05:58 <Leeds> it's wide open for developers, not for hackers
Nov 13 05:06:07 <dct2000> same shit
Nov 13 05:06:13 <Leeds> nope
Nov 13 05:06:41 <dct2000> developers creating tools for hackers
Nov 13 05:06:43 <dct2000> :)
Nov 13 05:06:44 <Leeds> for people who don't know - or care - that it's Linux underneath, it's a very open phone
Nov 13 05:07:09 <sodenrox> we need to blow up the tmobile forums about a flash browser
Nov 13 05:07:21 <dct2000> year right
Nov 13 05:07:36 <languish> yeah, make t-mobile fund the dev of a flash browser :D
Nov 13 05:07:40 <languish> but wait
Nov 13 05:08:11 <languish> t-mobile put out their own app, for their t-mobile hotspots. And so far, it's the buggiest app of all.
Nov 13 05:08:23 <unix_infidel> i suspect that we'll get a flash lite compatible plugin when the iPhone does.
Nov 13 05:08:28 <languish> to the point it sometimes even interferes with voice service.
Nov 13 05:08:52 <languish> So maybe we don't want t-mobile involved :|
Nov 13 05:09:00 <Leeds> unix_infidel: I suspect we'll get one far faster - assuming, that is, that not-mobileChrome has a plugin interface at all
Nov 13 05:10:13 <sodenrox> i just wish someone would make a good game..
Nov 13 05:10:41 <unix_infidel> Leeds: more likely scenario is Android releasing an update to the entire browser.
Nov 13 05:10:57 <DarkriftX> sup languish
Nov 13 05:11:09 <sodenrox> i just cant believe that google would release an open source phone without it
Nov 13 05:11:32 <unix_infidel> S60's webkit implementation has it no?
Nov 13 05:12:18 <ismarc> languish: I don't want flash in the browser
Nov 13 05:12:26 <Leeds> see... about the only thing I use flash for is videos... and you've got access to (some of) the biggest video site on the 'net through the YouTube app
Nov 13 05:12:27 <ismarc> nearly all ads use flash now
Nov 13 05:12:35 <ismarc> no flash = nearly no ads
Nov 13 05:13:01 <unix_infidel> and there are download services for most video sites.
Nov 13 05:13:14 <BHSPitMonkey> ismarc, well, someone needs to port flashblock as well :P
Nov 13 05:13:33 <BHSPitMonkey> to suppress the mobile flash port
Nov 13 05:13:49 <ismarc> BHSPitMonkey: ok, that'd work
Nov 13 05:13:51 <sodenrox> i use watch-movies.net on my kaiser
Nov 13 05:13:56 <sodenrox> with skyfire
Nov 13 05:14:03 <ismarc> last thing I want on a mobile device with limited bandwidth and high latency is extra BS loading in a browser
Nov 13 05:14:34 <sodenrox> skyfire is a good browser for wm
Nov 13 05:14:38 <stanter> hey folks
Nov 13 05:14:44 <stanter> when does android do network initialization?
Nov 13 05:14:56 <stanter> i can ping addresses(resolve as well) from a terminal on my device but the browser isn't happy
Nov 13 05:15:44 <stanter> does android perform dns look up itself? and so expects certain settings in init.rc?
Nov 13 05:15:56 <stanter> or does it use standard linux host look up routines?
Nov 13 05:16:29 <AstainHellbring> skyfire blows
Nov 13 05:17:07 <sodenrox> way better then opera
Nov 13 05:17:22 <berto> skyfire sounds like the cause of global warming
Nov 13 05:18:04 <languish> Damn, it looks like CamLine was signed before 1.0 was released
Nov 13 05:18:15 <languish> :(
Nov 13 05:19:13 <languish> wb spackest
Nov 13 05:19:22 <spackest> hola!
Nov 13 05:19:33 <languish> Find someone to do that work for you?
Nov 13 05:19:40 <spackest> I think so
Nov 13 05:19:48 <languish> cool
Nov 13 05:20:03 <spackest> how goes the utah loving in here?
Nov 13 05:20:21 * AstainHellbring loves utah
Nov 13 05:20:58 <languish> Utah's a nice place, without the zealots.
Nov 13 05:21:02 <languish> :)
Nov 13 05:21:27 <spackest> for the record, I am one of those mormon zealot guys
Nov 13 05:21:31 <gdsx> stanter: can you use other apps?
Nov 13 05:21:39 <languish> spackest, my condolences
Nov 13 05:21:45 <gdsx> stanter: (maps, for instance)
Nov 13 05:21:58 <gdsx> stanter: also, I expect that gtalk is working?
Nov 13 05:22:05 <languish> I have a few friends out that way, but they're only members through social pressure
Nov 13 05:22:42 <spackest> gotta do it cause you want to, and cause you personally believe, or I think you'll just drift away later in life
Nov 13 05:22:47 <languish> They either get to work on cancer cures at the university while being part of the church, or they don't get to do the work.
Nov 13 05:22:48 <spackest> or often earlier :)
Nov 13 05:23:04 <stanter> gdsx: err.. no i cannot use network at all, since i just ported android to this device. i was curious to know if it needed to be pointed in the right direction. for example it needs to know my dns server, and the route
Nov 13 05:23:05 <languish> Pretty sick how that goes.
Nov 13 05:23:21 <gdsx> stanter: aah, ok
Nov 13 05:24:03 <gdsx> stanter: can you ping by hostname?
Nov 13 05:24:25 <stanter> yes i can
Nov 13 05:24:53 <stanter> i can also telnet to www.yahoo.com 80
Nov 13 05:24:58 <gdsx> ::nod::
Nov 13 05:25:01 <stanter> so routing and dns is working
Nov 13 05:25:43 <gdsx> stanter: what happens when you try to hit a site in the browser? do you have adb going?  if so, can you run `adb logcat` while trying to hit something from the browser?
Nov 13 05:26:12 <stanter> E/browser ( 5070): onReceivedError code:-2 The URL could not be found.
Nov 13 05:26:12 <stanter> D/browser ( 5070): updating cursor
Nov 13 05:26:33 <gdsx> nothing before that? hmm...
Nov 13 05:27:23 <gdsx> stanter: you probably want to chat with swetland when he's around
Nov 13 05:27:36 <stanter> gdsx: thanks so much for your help
Nov 13 05:27:53 <gdsx> stanter: heh, wasn't much help, but np :o)
Nov 13 05:28:01 <gdsx> good luck
Nov 13 05:28:12 <stanter> i take it swetland is signed on but not here :)
Nov 13 05:28:28 <gdsx> yeah, I don't think he's around
Nov 13 05:29:18 <tmzt> stanter: forget, which device was that?
Nov 13 05:30:02 <stanter> tmzt: the one that was just constructed, generally based on an xscale
Nov 13 05:30:39 <stanter> android is def, working, opengl demo, calculator, notepad,... just been looking to get the browser up and going
Nov 13 05:31:24 <tmzt> right, 310
Nov 13 05:31:47 <stanter> yup thats it
Nov 13 05:31:52 <tmzt> what are you connected to the network through?
Nov 13 05:32:11 <stanter> the wireless card
Nov 13 05:32:17 <stanter> and there is connrectivity
Nov 13 05:32:26 <gdsx> stanter: does dialer work?
Nov 13 05:32:40 <stanter> this isnt a cellphone
Nov 13 05:32:47 <stanter> so i havent even tried it
Nov 13 05:32:51 <stanter> lol
Nov 13 05:32:52 <gdsx> ok, go to dialer
Nov 13 05:32:59 <gdsx> dial *#*#INFO#*#*
Nov 13 05:33:03 <gdsx> then hit Phone Info
Nov 13 05:33:32 <gdsx> that should give you some info about what the framework things the data state is
Nov 13 05:34:05 <stanter> ok thats a good pointer
Nov 13 05:34:21 <RyeBrye> gdsx - is there a way to get to that screen with anycut?
Nov 13 05:34:26 <gdsx> yes
Nov 13 05:34:32 <languish> gdsx, can you use the browser to view files on the sdcard ?
Nov 13 05:34:37 <gdsx> it's in there somewhere pretty straightforwardly, I believe
Nov 13 05:34:56 <gdsx> languish: not currently, no (I'm not exactly sure why)
Nov 13 05:35:05 <languish> nod, thanks
Nov 13 05:35:16 <gdsx> languish: that is, the browser doesn't do "file:///" URLs right now
Nov 13 05:35:30 <languish> I was hoping \sdcard\filename.html
Nov 13 05:35:34 <languish> owell
Nov 13 05:39:45 <stanter> so a slight confession.. i don't have a keyboard or buttons on this device.. yes it seems insane that i am even trying to use it.. but its not so bad when you kill -9 the screens you don't want in the fore front
Nov 13 05:40:15 <stanter> so here is some additional info /system/bin/ping cannot resolve names
Nov 13 05:40:29 <stanter> it can however ping external addresses
Nov 13 05:40:49 <stanter> the normal ping can resolve address though
Nov 13 05:41:08 <stanter> i wonder if android looks for resolv.conf in a different place..
Nov 13 05:41:10 <gdsx> stanter: even when you run it as root?
Nov 13 05:41:13 <kRutOn> isn't the built-in stuff stored in the getprop area
Nov 13 05:41:15 <ismarc> stanter: local subnet, or different subnet IPs?
Nov 13 05:41:32 <kRutOn> stanter: have you been looking at getprop
Nov 13 05:41:33 <stanter> different subnet ips cna be pinged using android's ping
Nov 13 05:42:02 <stanter> kRutOn: no i have not
Nov 13 05:42:29 <kRutOn> let me look on my phone.. I thought I saw DNS stuff in there
Nov 13 05:43:14 <kRutOn> [net.dns1]: [10.100.10.2]
Nov 13 05:43:28 <kRutOn> try setprop net.dns1 x.x.x.x
Nov 13 05:44:09 <ttuttle> Hey.
Nov 13 05:44:41 <ttuttle> Anyone know a good tutorial for creating a Service?  I'd like to have a long-running data-collection thread that my activity can interact with.  I've got it running, but I have no way to talk to it.
Nov 13 05:45:46 <kRutOn> stanter: look at http://nemustech.blogspot.com/2007/12/android-porting-to-real-target-hw.html
Nov 13 05:46:01 <kRutOn> looks like he had a lot of the same problems you're having
Nov 13 05:53:30 <spikebike> ttuttle if you find one let me know
Nov 13 05:53:42 <spikebike> I'd like to create something that's either a service or triggers on an XMPP message
Nov 13 05:54:21 <stanter> *: thanks for all your help guys i am getting closer and closer
Nov 13 05:55:40 <kRutOn> stanter: Can you browse now?
Nov 13 05:55:59 <stanter> not quit yet. i will let you know for sure. it will happen tonight. i have that feeling
Nov 13 05:57:22 <remitaylor> from Eclipse, i can run my app *on* my Android device.  from the command line, sans Eclipse, i typically `adb install app.apk` and then run it ... how can i run my app on the phone, the way Eclipse does, from the command line?  (attach the debugger etc)
Nov 13 05:58:18 <kRutOn> remitaylor: There is something called am that can start activities given the right arguments
Nov 13 05:59:07 <remitaylor> kRutOn: thanks, i'll check out its usage :)
Nov 13 06:00:39 <kRutOn> It's something like: am start -D -a android.intent.action.MAIN -n com.example.blah/com.example.blah.MyActivityClass
Nov 13 06:00:46 <remitaylor> kRutOn: i can''t find an 'am' command distributed with the SDK
Nov 13 06:01:09 <romainguy> adb shell am
Nov 13 06:01:18 <kRutOn> remitaylor: It's inside the device, so you'd call.. lose
Nov 13 06:02:37 <kRutOn> romainguy: Do you rest? :-)
Nov 13 06:02:57 <remitaylor> ah, gotcha!  i understand ... thanks romainguy & kRutOn :)
Nov 13 06:06:24 <remitaylor> kRutOn: that command gets stuck with "Waiting For Debugger" ... *looking at the adb doco* ... how do i start the debugger?
Nov 13 06:10:59 <kRutOn> remitaylor: oh, maybe the -D means debugger.. not sure
Nov 13 06:11:31 <remitaylor> kRutOn: yeah, without the -D, it starts the app on the phone.  with -D, it waits for a debugger
Nov 13 06:14:00 <spackest> I just watched this  	Android - Apps can easily embed the web
Nov 13 06:14:05 <spackest> so cool
Nov 13 06:14:20 <ttuttle> Hey.  There's no way to offer extra LocationProviders, is there?
Nov 13 06:15:40 <spackest> there some good sample code for embedding web stuff?
Nov 13 06:16:05 <spackest> would be nice if that video pointed out specific examples
Nov 13 06:17:32 <romainguy> spackest: there's not much to do
Nov 13 06:17:39 <romainguy> just put a WebView in your app
Nov 13 06:17:40 <romainguy> and that's about it
Nov 13 06:17:56 <spackest> cool, thanks will take a look
Nov 13 06:18:15 <spackest> I've been doing eclipse rich client at work and kind of figured it would be at least that hard
Nov 13 06:18:54 <romainguy> erk
Nov 13 06:18:55 <romainguy> SWT
Nov 13 06:18:56 <romainguy> @!#
Nov 13 06:18:56 <stanter> kRutOn: thanks again for that link.. i need to expose a memory mappable file so that the property service works
Nov 13 06:19:38 <spackest> this page is a bit much http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html
Nov 13 06:20:19 <languish> oOoOoO network port scanner in the Market
Nov 13 06:20:36 <spackest> really like the yui! model where they always have examples and they are right there
Nov 13 06:20:57 <ttuttle> languish: ooh hax.
Nov 13 06:21:02 <languish> lulz
Nov 13 06:21:09 <ttuttle> languish: /me has a server for that.
Nov 13 06:21:11 <spackest> maybe this is more what I am looking for http://code.google.com/android/samples/ApiDemos/src/com/example/android/apis/view/WebView1.html
Nov 13 06:21:30 <languish> ttuttle, I randomly do it while wifi testing
Nov 13 06:21:36 * ttuttle is really enjoying how easy it is to pull various types of data (location and wifi) out of android.
Nov 13 06:21:52 <ttuttle> I'm doing research for a prof, and it's great to just let my phone do most of the data collection as I wander around.
Nov 13 06:21:54 <languish> I've been using dell azims for the past for years for imprompu wifi testing
Nov 13 06:22:00 * ttuttle cringes.
Nov 13 06:22:05 <kRutOn> romainguy: Hey, do you know if setLinearText() does anything? I rummaged through the skia code and it looks like the check of getLinearText() is commented out
Nov 13 06:22:05 <languish> *axims
Nov 13 06:22:16 <orci> can google tools handle "ToDo"s?
Nov 13 06:22:20 <orci> or tasks?
Nov 13 06:22:29 <romainguy> kRutOn: I don't know what it is
Nov 13 06:22:33 <orci> languish, I did master reset, it works now for your information
Nov 13 06:22:39 <orci> languish, thanks
Nov 13 06:22:49 <languish> orci you're welcome :)
Nov 13 06:23:05 <kRutOn> romainguy: It just says it disables caching of the drawText() call
Nov 13 06:23:17 <romainguy> why would you do that?
Nov 13 06:24:29 <__Alex__> Okay, so I want to have a nice downloading function like in the browser/market apps.  You start it and it downloads in the background with a progress dialog in the notifications list.  Is this available as an intent or something, or do I have to write all of that stuff myself?
Nov 13 06:24:31 <kRutOn> romainguy: I don't know. It's not documented very well and ...
Nov 13 06:24:36 <kRutOn> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/external/skia.git;a=blob;f=libsgl/sgl/SkDraw.cpp;h=2f0ddff2366da07fbfbbc92ecfb69e82311e3f9d;hb=HEAD
Nov 13 06:24:39 <kRutOn> line 1391
Nov 13 06:25:05 <romainguy> file a bug
Nov 13 06:25:12 <romainguy> and again, why would you want to do this? :))
Nov 13 06:25:43 <kRutOn> Well, in ConnectBot we do a lot of drawText and there is a lot of GC
Nov 13 06:25:52 <kRutOn> I was trying to look at the heap, but didn't get very far
Nov 13 06:26:03 <romainguy> that won't help at all
Nov 13 06:26:08 <romainguy> it will only make drawing slower
Nov 13 06:26:16 <romainguy> the cache is the characters texture cache
Nov 13 06:26:28 <romainguy> have you used DDMS' allocation tracker?
Nov 13 06:26:42 <kRutOn> ah, ok
Nov 13 06:26:49 <kRutOn> haven't heard of it, but I'll look into it
Nov 13 06:29:01 <kRutOn> I also need to figure out a way to tweak the behavior of the font substitution
Nov 13 06:29:52 <kRutOn> When I'm using monospace and write Chinese, it will write characters that are like 1.7x the width of a normal halfwidth character instead of 2x
Nov 13 06:33:02 <Fnord^> kRutOn, hey got a question...
Nov 13 06:33:45 <Fnord^> why can't I trap KeyEvent.KEYCODE_SEARCH ?
Nov 13 06:34:05 <Fnord^> In the Term app source, right next to all the other keybindings
Nov 13 06:34:41 <umdk1d3> Fnord^: remember that sometimes search+key gets caught early by the system global shortcuts
Nov 13 06:34:49 <umdk1d3> it should fall through in other cases though
Nov 13 06:35:12 <Fnord^> hrm
Nov 13 06:35:22 <Fnord^> well i was hoping to remap it to '-' =[
Nov 13 06:35:45 <umdk1d3> also, iirc its treated as a meta key
Nov 13 06:36:01 <Fnord^> always?
Nov 13 06:36:14 <Fnord^> hmm
Nov 13 06:36:27 <Fnord^> perhaps that can be a real alt
Nov 13 06:36:32 <umdk1d3> in connectbot were capturing other meta keys though, for turning right-alt into "/"
Nov 13 06:36:48 <Fnord^> yeah, I replicated that in Term.java
Nov 13 06:38:16 <Fnord^> Tis good idea :> Hoped to take it a step further, since yeah I use '-' alot in cmdline
Nov 13 06:39:53 <umdk1d3> Fnord^: the idea i had for "-" was to doubletap the "i" key
Nov 13 06:40:24 <Fnord^> I could see people loving and hating that
Nov 13 06:40:48 <Leeds> aiii!
Nov 13 06:40:59 <umdk1d3> or maybe a longpress of the "i" key, but that would kill repeating hmm
Nov 13 06:41:04 <Fnord^> have you tried modifying KEYCODE_SEARCH?
Nov 13 06:42:18 <Fnord^> cuz i see no use for search in a terminal. binding to find\n included :P
Nov 13 06:42:18 <umdk1d3> i only tried capturing it with another key, which is where i ran into those global shortcut issues
Nov 13 06:42:26 <Fnord^> hrm
Nov 13 06:42:33 <umdk1d3> you might be able to capture just the search meta key by itself tho
Nov 13 06:42:40 <Fnord^> well
Nov 13 06:42:44 <Fnord^> code paste incoming
Nov 13 06:42:55 <Fnord^>         case KeyEvent.KEYCODE_SHIFT_RIGHT:
Nov 13 06:42:55 <Fnord^>             result = '\t';
Nov 13 06:42:55 <Fnord^>             break;
Nov 13 06:42:58 <Fnord^> works
Nov 13 06:43:06 <Fnord^>  //        case KeyEvent.KEYCODE_SEARCH:
Nov 13 06:43:06 <Fnord^> /            result = '-';
Nov 13 06:43:06 <Fnord^> /            break;
Nov 13 06:43:11 <Fnord^> doesn't
Nov 13 06:43:18 <umdk1d3> oh hmm
Nov 13 06:43:20 <umdk1d3> holdon a sec
Nov 13 06:44:10 <Leeds> erm, I haven't seen the APIs for this sort of thing, but are keypress, keydown and keyup differentiated?
Nov 13 06:44:25 <Bonkz> if i register for android market with my website url, am i able to change this website url later in the process?
Nov 13 06:44:30 <umdk1d3> that normal search key event might be triggering   onSearchRequested() or something
Nov 13 06:44:38 <kRutOn> Fnord^: that's because you have it commented out ^_^
Nov 13 06:44:43 <kRutOn> jk
Nov 13 06:45:04 <Fnord^> public int keyDown(int keyCode, KeyEvent event) { switch (keyCode) { case ... <----that's what it resides in
Nov 13 06:45:07 <Fnord^> kRutOn, :P
Nov 13 06:45:15 <umdk1d3> might try setting  DEFAULT_KEYS_DISABLE
Nov 13 06:45:35 <Fnord^>         int letter = mKeyListener.keyDown(keyCode, event);
Nov 13 06:45:38 <Fnord^> hmmm
Nov 13 06:45:45 <Orph> I hope android takes off
Nov 13 06:45:53 <Orph> I hope it ends up on non phone devices too.
Nov 13 06:45:54 <Fnord^> that might frag menu, but will give it a shot
Nov 13 06:46:03 <umdk1d3> hmm no wait, thats only invoked /after/ we drop the key in our own handler
Nov 13 06:46:16 <Fnord^> ahhh
Nov 13 06:46:46 <muthu_> anyone know if the development/tools/scripts/*.template are automatically picked up by 'make'.. ?
Nov 13 06:48:04 <Fnord^> not sure. i'm not pleased with the build system
Nov 13 06:48:06 <RyeBrye> Is the stuff posted on code.google.com for the android getting started stuff the best place to get started for an experienced java dev looking to pick up android?
Nov 13 06:48:12 <kRutOn> orph: coming to your local ATM
Nov 13 06:48:13 <RyeBrye> i.e. the notepad tutorial... etc?
Nov 13 06:48:16 <Fnord^> actually yes, i think they are
Nov 13 06:49:31 <Orph> kRutOn, I was thinking more set top boxes
Nov 13 06:49:44 <Orph> but if its stable enough, why not.
Nov 13 06:50:17 <Fnord^> it seems pretty stable except for background processes heh
Nov 13 06:50:26 <kRutOn> It's more stable than Windows Embedded or whatever... seen one too many ATMs with a BSOD.
Nov 13 06:51:12 <Fnord^> btw tmo stores still have rc28 and will exchange, no question asked, within 14 days. for any of those that got derooted
Nov 13 06:51:21 <RyeBrye> Cool
Nov 13 06:51:33 <Fnord^> just say 'bad reception' etc
Nov 13 06:51:47 <Fnord^> which is actually why i exchanged mine heh. now i really love this phone
Nov 13 06:51:50 <RyeBrye> None of the t-mobile stores near my stock them. I'm in 3G prison
Nov 13 06:51:52 <RyeBrye> err EDGE prison
Nov 13 06:52:01 <Fnord^> =[
Nov 13 06:52:06 <RyeBrye> Yeah, Android - root = sexless marriage
Nov 13 06:52:25 <RyeBrye> On the outside... it might look the same... ;)
Nov 13 06:52:36 <kRutOn> I noticed there was a lot of check-ins for the CDMA part of Android, so I'm hoping Sprint is close behind
Nov 13 06:52:59 <RyeBrye> straight up CDMA or WSCDMA?
Nov 13 06:53:08 <kRutOn> straight up CDMA
Nov 13 06:53:46 <kRutOn> http://r.android.com/user/oss.android_cdma,,teleca.com
Nov 13 06:54:01 <RyeBrye> Didn't sprint dis on android recently?
Nov 13 06:54:21 <kRutOn> let's forget about that :-)
Nov 13 06:54:30 <kRutOn> Also, I was curious as to why teleca is working on it
Nov 13 06:54:33 <RyeBrye> Has Verizon come out and said anything?
Nov 13 06:54:40 <kRutOn> I thought they were just a mobile browser company.
Nov 13 06:54:55 <Leeds> anybody can work on it...
Nov 13 06:55:02 <kRutOn> Verizon said 'I can't hear you now or in the future.'
Nov 13 06:56:35 <kRutOn> Verizon will activate any CDMA phone now, so you could take a Sprint Android phone and use it on Verizon
Nov 13 06:57:12 <RyeBrye> CDMA phones can't be carrier locked?
Nov 13 06:58:21 <kRutOn> I think all you need is a new PRL and your MSL...
Nov 13 06:58:36 <kRutOn> I've never done it, but Verizon had said they'll take phones with ESNs that aren't theirs
Nov 13 07:00:32 <kRutOn> Sprint gives you the MSL when you call them up to activate the phone, though.
Nov 13 07:10:07 <terdhex> Is it android supporting XMPP now or that's a thing of the past?
Nov 13 07:12:16 <languish> terdhex you may want to repeat your question now that romainguy is reconnected
Nov 13 07:14:45 <muthu_> weird, only existing templates are copied to out.. and new templates are ignored by make
Nov 13 07:17:14 <remitaylor> when I `adb shell` a lot of things give me "Permission denied" ... for instance, i want to see what commands are available to me ... `ls /sbin` gives me Permission denied.  i figure i'm root?  if not, do i have to su?  and how can i?
Nov 13 07:18:54 <Fnord^> you can have root if your firmware is rc29 or below, other than that you're sol
Nov 13 07:20:06 <kRutOn> grr, Eclipse became corrupted
Nov 13 07:22:11 <remitaylor> Fnord^: build RC30 ... well, that's pretty obnoxious  :(  is there doco for flashing devices with firmware?
Nov 13 07:23:18 <Fnord^> yeah rc30 took away root. no docs yet on fleshing
Nov 13 07:23:31 <Fnord^> exchange it if you bought it within 14 days? :P
Nov 13 07:25:43 <remitaylor> guess i'll wait for another rc that gives it back *or* doco on howto flash the device with custom firmware.  i wonder who's at fault ... t-mobile or google.  one of them obviously doesn't quite seem to "get" open-source yet ... i was hoping for: git clone, compile, flash.  *tweak*, compile, flash.
Nov 13 07:26:24 <romainguy> remitaylor: open source has NOTHING to do with being able to flash the git tree build onto the G1
Nov 13 07:26:26 <RyeBrye> T-moblie
Nov 13 07:27:03 <Fnord^> i'm not sure there will be another. tmo|htc|google don't want custom code on the g1
Nov 13 07:27:04 <RyeBrye> romainguy - you are quite right - but you guys should really bitch slap T-mobile for talking so much about the "open" aspect of this phone
Nov 13 07:27:22 <romainguy> RyeBrye: the phone is open in many ways
Nov 13 07:27:30 <BHSPitMonkey> so is Windows Mobile
Nov 13 07:27:31 * remitaylor simply listens, as everyone else has more Android experience ...
Nov 13 07:27:48 <Fnord^> so the only hope is getting a phone that's <30 or waiting for a bootloader fix
Nov 13 07:27:59 <RyeBrye> yeah, having the source code is helpful - but it is irrelevant if you can't replace it with a customized version
Nov 13 07:28:17 <terdhex> Does anybody know of an open source IM project for android with support for MSN?
Nov 13 07:28:40 <Fnord^> centericq :P
Nov 13 07:28:41 <RyeBrye> From a user standpoint, the G1's restrictions make it more open than the iPhone perhaps, but pretty much on the same level as Blackberry, Symbian, or Windows Mobile
Nov 13 07:28:43 <romainguy> RyeBrye: that doesn't make it irrelevant at all, you can still fix things, contribute them back and enjoy seeing your work being OTAd to everybody
Nov 13 07:28:44 <remitaylor> it seems weird to me, essentially having to wait for an exploit ... to run a fork of an open-source project on a device created to run the open-source project
Nov 13 07:28:56 <romainguy> RyeBrye: the Android Market is a big deal
Nov 13 07:29:07 <RyeBrye> The android market isn't open though!
Nov 13 07:29:08 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 13 07:29:13 <romainguy> how so?
Nov 13 07:29:20 <RyeBrye> Maybe I'm wrong
Nov 13 07:29:24 <RyeBrye> Where is the source for the market app?
Nov 13 07:29:24 <Fnord^> remitaylor, yeah. i'd try exchanging
Nov 13 07:29:32 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, because you can only get it on the G1?
Nov 13 07:29:43 <romainguy> the G1 is the only Android device out there :)
Nov 13 07:29:49 <remitaylor> romainguy: it's more difficult to contribute patches if we can't easily flash our devices with the patched versions to test it out / play around / etc, imho
Nov 13 07:29:50 <BHSPitMonkey> it's completely vendor-controlled?
Nov 13 07:30:04 <romainguy> remitaylor: like I explained many times, the emulator does a great job at that
Nov 13 07:30:12 <romainguy> remitaylor: in the Android team, we mostly use the emulator
Nov 13 07:30:14 <RyeBrye> Yeah, for framework stuff the emulator is probably acceptable
Nov 13 07:30:20 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, there's plenty of functional ports of the source to other phones, and they can't get Market because it's not OSS.
Nov 13 07:30:40 <RyeBrye> Does the market apk even run if it is copied over to a non-G1?
Nov 13 07:30:41 <Fnord^> pretty much. the os code is publically available but the phone isn't open at all.
Nov 13 07:31:04 <RyeBrye> Although - I will say this much - if you do have root access to the phone, it's the most open phone in the universe
Nov 13 07:31:12 * RyeBrye has been to the outer edges of the universe
Nov 13 07:31:39 <Fnord^> yup, best thing since sliced bread. but i feel threatened
Nov 13 07:31:42 <Fnord^> :P
Nov 13 07:31:55 <remitaylor> romainguy: you're 100% right with everything you've said.  ... that said, i'll buy the next device that let's me install my own firmware.  i suppose it poses a risk to the provider.  but i want to be able to fork things & play with them and run them on my device.  i hope we can do that, one day.
Nov 13 07:32:09 <romainguy> and I hope so too
Nov 13 07:32:12 <BHSPitMonkey> I think it's safe to say that Android is a better OS than the G1 is a phone :P
Nov 13 07:32:29 <p_quarles> remitaylor: you know about the NeoFreerunner, yes?
Nov 13 07:32:35 <romainguy> but I would like to stop people using the argument of "open source" as a way to justify the crave of control they have
Nov 13 07:32:38 <BHSPitMonkey> remitaylor, openmoko
Nov 13 07:32:49 <remitaylor> romainguy: well then ... imma play with the emulator.  keep up the good work ( ... and maybe get some dynamic languages running on Dalvik? :P )
Nov 13 07:32:51 <BHSPitMonkey> rather, freerunner
Nov 13 07:32:52 <p_quarles> romainguy: +1
Nov 13 07:33:24 <Fnord^> what's wrong with 'craving control' of a device i bought?
Nov 13 07:33:29 <kRutOn> speaking of dynamic languages, will there be any more work done on introspection in Dalvik?
Nov 13 07:34:07 * remitaylor listens intently re: dynamic languages
Nov 13 07:34:14 <p_quarles> repurposing hardware is not one of the four freedoms that the FSF promotes :)
Nov 13 07:34:14 <BHSPitMonkey> yeah, the dollars and cents for the phone is justification enough, romainguy :)
Nov 13 07:34:56 <romainguy> Fnord^: there is nothing wrong with that
Nov 13 07:34:57 <remitaylor> in response to everyone mentioning OpenMoko ... if one of their devices fully supports Android - definitely worth checking out!  the more Android-compatible devices, the better :D
Nov 13 07:35:09 <romainguy> BHSPitMonkey: you mean the $200 TMobile subsidizes? :)
Nov 13 07:35:36 <RyeBrye> T-mobile MORE than makes up for that in the end with the contract
Nov 13 07:35:44 <romainguy> Fnord^: but the fact that Andoid is Open Source doesn't mean that you can or will get root on your phone. Period. It has nothing to do with it.
Nov 13 07:35:45 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, so if I buy the phone without subsidies, it works differently?
Nov 13 07:36:10 <romainguy> BHSPitMonkey: depends who you buy it from :)
Nov 13 07:36:29 <BHSPitMonkey> it's more about the popular mindset of companies claiming ownership of things they've "sold" you
Nov 13 07:36:35 <RyeBrye> marketing the G1 as an "open" phone would be like marketing at TiVo as an "open" DVR
Nov 13 07:36:43 <BHSPitMonkey> i.e. you're just borrowing this phone from us
Nov 13 07:36:53 <BHSPitMonkey> even after it's out of a contract
Nov 13 07:36:55 <romainguy> RyeBrye: I don't remember the G1 ever being presented as open
Nov 13 07:36:57 <romainguy> Android was
Nov 13 07:37:00 <romainguy> but not the G1 itself
Nov 13 07:37:00 <Fnord^> romainguy, technically correct, but as one of the main benefits of open source has been locked down, using 'open source' in marketing is at best a half-truth
Nov 13 07:37:25 <romainguy> Fnord^: open source has NOTHING to do with full access on a product
Nov 13 07:37:43 <romainguy> Android is open source, grab it, compile it on another device and you'll get all the access you want
Nov 13 07:37:51 <remitaylor> T-Mobile may have gone out on a limb just to support an Android phone *at all* ... ideally, for all of us, Android will do better and better and there will be more and more handsets and, eventually, we'll have *much* more open handsets.  after all, this is just the first handset.  and T-Mobile is well within their rights to keep the G1 locked down to protect their network
Nov 13 07:38:05 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, he means that when you claim something to be open source, it usually entails your ability to modify that source and run it
Nov 13 07:38:12 <romainguy> which you can do
Nov 13 07:38:17 <romainguy> but not on the G1
Nov 13 07:38:24 <romainguy> and nobody ever pretended you'd be able to
Nov 13 07:38:25 <BHSPitMonkey> which, as you stated earlier
Nov 13 07:38:34 <BHSPitMonkey> is Android's only realization right now
Nov 13 07:38:47 <tauno> romainguy, do you know when (I don't mean the exact date.. but +- month) we will see general devices running Android (I mean.. not operator branded devices that only one operator has controll over) - devices that are sold all over the world? (like any other nokia/SE/etc)? :)
Nov 13 07:38:49 <romainguy> and if you're unhappy with this, take it with T-Mobile
Nov 13 07:38:55 <Fnord^> Would carriers even allow open hardware, eh?
Nov 13 07:39:02 <romainguy> tauno: I can't talk about that kind of thing :))
Nov 13 07:39:07 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, they just don't get my business :)
Nov 13 07:39:18 <tauno> romainguy, I know you can't.. thats why I don't want an exact date :P
Nov 13 07:39:26 <umdk1d3> tauno: any hardware manuf could choose to make an open device right now
Nov 13 07:39:30 <romainguy> Fnord^: I doubt T-Mobile will block you from using an Open Moko on their network
Nov 13 07:39:39 * remitaylor thinks we should be supporting the Android team (and trying to nag them to tell us whether there's any work being done wrt dynamic languages on Dalvik) instead of fussing at them!   :P
Nov 13 07:39:46 <tauno> umdk1d3, I know they can choose it.. but does anyone know if some of them already did? :)
Nov 13 07:39:53 <romainguy> we now that it is a bit frustrating to not get full access to the phone
Nov 13 07:39:56 <romainguy> but remember this:
Nov 13 07:40:12 <romainguy> 1. you're not T-Mobile's target, regular phone users are, and it doesn't matter if they get root or whatever
Nov 13 07:40:30 <romainguy> 2. T-Mobile actually did a lot of cool stuff by accepting Android, an open market place and a phone that's barely branded
Nov 13 07:40:48 <RyeBrye> True... but consider this:
Nov 13 07:40:51 <romainguy> (I mean, did the G1 attack you with tons of T-Mobile portals, home pages, custom apps, etc? there's only myFaves)
Nov 13 07:41:01 <Fnord^> romainguy, hmm so a generic android build with openmoko would work?
Nov 13 07:41:02 <RyeBrye> 1. Bluetooth ASDP still doesn't work, and you guys have limited resources
Nov 13 07:41:06 <romainguy> 3. Android is a HUGE open source contribution that cost Google a ton of money and resources
Nov 13 07:41:15 <muthu_> Google should come up with an open GPhone for developers
Nov 13 07:41:28 <BHSPitMonkey> Consider this:  When the Tulsa Search and Rescue department needs to power their flashlights to save lives, they use Duracell.
Nov 13 07:41:31 <romainguy> 4. you have the opportunity to contribute code, port it, etc.
Nov 13 07:41:43 <romainguy> 5. the Android team is talking to and working with the community
Nov 13 07:41:57 <RyeBrye> you are doing a good point of #5
Nov 13 07:42:05 <RyeBrye> even though I'm sure we manage to piss you off a lot :)
Nov 13 07:42:07 <romainguy> RyeBrye: the g1 has been out for less than a month!
Nov 13 07:42:17 <p_quarles> BHSPitMonkey: yes, but Duracell consistently spits on the GPL
Nov 13 07:42:19 <romainguy> RyeBrye: let's say reading this channel and some mailing lists can be very disheartening
Nov 13 07:42:34 <romainguy> Android is a non-trivial achievement (and I'm NOT talking about the technical side of things)
Nov 13 07:42:40 <romainguy> it's not perfect, by far
Nov 13 07:42:45 <RyeBrye> Romainguy - I wouldn't be here if I didn't Android had a lot of potential
Nov 13 07:42:45 <BHSPitMonkey> p_quarles, duracell batteries misuse open source code?
Nov 13 07:42:46 <Leeds> anyone know how to get my phone *not* to log on to google talk?
Nov 13 07:42:46 <romainguy> but it's a good step in the right direction
Nov 13 07:42:47 <tauno> I don't really care about open access. I only want that some general phone manufacturer would ship a device that is sold to all operators not just tmo.. It's a bit too much currently.. I mean.. the g1 I have has cost me about $1369 (£200 + £40/18months contract that I can't use because I don't live in the UK.. I just pay the bills but I can't use it :/ )
Nov 13 07:42:54 <romainguy> and changing an entire industry doesn't happen in one launch :)
Nov 13 07:43:08 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, unless you're Apple ;)
Nov 13 07:43:13 <sal323> for some reason my g1 is mising the "usb storage" option in "settings" -> "sd card and phone storage"
Nov 13 07:43:16 <Leeds> tauno: mine cost me a *lot* less than that, as a gret import
Nov 13 07:43:24 <romainguy> BHSPitMonkey: I don't think Apple changed things that much
Nov 13 07:43:25 <sal323> anyone have any ideas?
Nov 13 07:43:33 <romainguy> they make manufacturers come out with even crappier devices
Nov 13 07:43:38 <romainguy> and that's about it
Nov 13 07:43:39 <muthu_> tauno: why are you paying the monthly contract?
Nov 13 07:43:43 <Fnord^> romainguy, disheartening how? I think those that are stubborn with retaining root pretty much realize it's not google making the decision to try and take it away
Nov 13 07:43:44 <romainguy> (the iPhone is an amazing device though :)
Nov 13 07:43:47 <RyeBrye> Romainguy - but the thing is... My motherboard was less than a month old and various chips of it weren't supported - but about three or four people working seperately had patches sitting waiting in the 2.6.28-next tree
Nov 13 07:43:49 <tauno> they wouldn't sell me the device otherwise..
Nov 13 07:44:32 <RyeBrye> Romainguy - and that wouldn't have been possible had they not had the access and motivation to fix it themselves... I see a similar avenue to device support on the G1... You guys shouldn't HAVE to focus on supporting this hardware - the community should be able to do it just fine
Nov 13 07:44:33 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, it says something when your first delve into a market quickly becomes the benchmark for all smartphones
Nov 13 07:44:54 <BHSPitMonkey> whether it rightfully should be or not, the iPhone has been used as the measuring stick
Nov 13 07:44:57 <muthu_> CAUTION: Technical Ahead ==> anyone know how sdk_deps.mk is created?
Nov 13 07:45:05 <g1er_> sal323: I think only RC19 had that option, newer RC's have a notification where you choose
Nov 13 07:45:07 <romainguy> BHSPitMonkey: I agree, but I don't think they especially advanced the industry in any way
Nov 13 07:45:15 <romainguy> BHSPitMonkey: it's a great, shiny, cool phone
Nov 13 07:45:23 <Leeds> tauno: I paid about 7165 EEK (in Hong Kong dollars) for mine, unlocked and contract-free
Nov 13 07:45:38 <romainguy> BHSPitMonkey: and yes others are trying to emulate it, which is great for the users
Nov 13 07:45:39 <RyeBrye> romainguy: I think they did move things forward for networks to accept themselves as "dumb pipes" though
Nov 13 07:45:56 <tauno> Leeds, I needed to get one from "official" sources sadly :(
Nov 13 07:45:57 <sal323> g1er_: notification where?
Nov 13 07:46:02 <Leeds> sorry, I'm going to ask this again: any way to disable google talk autologin?
Nov 13 07:46:03 <Leeds> tauno: why?
Nov 13 07:46:18 <tauno> Leeds, ask our bookkeeper :P
Nov 13 07:46:26 <RyeBrye> romainguy: Was the T-mobile going to launch the G1 with the few restrictions they did prior to the iPhone stealing away millions of their customers?
Nov 13 07:46:30 <sal323> g1er_: looks like the docs that come with the g1 phone need to be updated then
Nov 13 07:46:39 <Leeds> ah, well if it's a company device...
Nov 13 07:46:48 <romainguy> RyeBrye: you think Android started after the iPhone launched?
Nov 13 07:46:52 <tauno> Leeds, or better yet.. the companys bookkeeper for whom we are developing ;)
Nov 13 07:46:54 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, multitouch is the only really big thing that it brought to the table, though you can't really count that as an industry-changer since they've won so many outrageous patents on it, nobody's free to do the obvious neat things with it.
Nov 13 07:47:03 <romainguy> (similarly, you think the idea of the Android Market came to us *after* Apple announced theirs?)
Nov 13 07:47:04 <RyeBrye> romainguy - no, but I don't know when the deal was signed to launch a device based on it
Nov 13 07:47:24 <romainguy> BHSPitMonkey: and multi-touch is definitely not their invention, even though they popularized it
Nov 13 07:47:26 <BHSPitMonkey> I can't imagine using a touch-screen browser without pinch/stretch now
Nov 13 07:47:37 <BHSPitMonkey> romainguy, I mean that they brought it to consumers first
Nov 13 07:47:45 <romainguy> yes they did
Nov 13 07:48:02 <muthu_> must admit a few basic functionalities are missing in g1
Nov 13 07:48:12 <BHSPitMonkey> muthu_, ya think?
Nov 13 07:48:17 <tauno> romainguy, sure you had the idea first but who is going to believe you now? ;)
Nov 13 07:48:30 <muthu_> BHSPitMonkey: yeah, like video recording
Nov 13 07:48:32 <romainguy> I'm not saying we had the idea first
Nov 13 07:48:39 <romainguy> I'm saying that things don't happen in a month :)
Nov 13 07:49:02 * RyeBrye knows that all too well... 
Nov 13 07:49:18 <romainguy> there are so many things I wish I could talk about publicly :))
Nov 13 07:49:28 <RyeBrye> romainguy - I did post a somewhat positive review of android on my blog today... http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/12/android-in-my-pocket/ - I even have a PicSay modified image of an iPhone on it
Nov 13 07:49:33 <tauno> romainguy, yeah, tell me about it :P
Nov 13 07:49:36 <RyeBrye> (if you are looking for something mildly positive to read :) )
Nov 13 07:49:40 <remitaylor> romainguy: there are so many things *I* with you could talk about publicly too!
Nov 13 07:49:48 <Leeds> romainguy: we wish you could talk abou tit too
Nov 13 07:49:49 <romainguy> about what?
Nov 13 07:49:55 * tauno sits on a j2me project that has taken almost 2.5 years and is still not on the market as a final product :P
Nov 13 07:50:03 <romainguy> uhuh
Nov 13 07:50:09 <sal323> romainguy: let it out ... its not good to bottle all that inside
Nov 13 07:50:15 <romainguy> lol
Nov 13 07:50:21 <RyeBrye> romaign guy - that's what /msg is for ;)
Nov 13 07:50:35 <remitaylor> romainguy: Dalvik being able to, one day, handle dynamic bytecode generation & execution ... (as if ... but i can dream, can't i??)
Nov 13 07:50:40 <RyeBrye> if you /msg, it's not breaking confidentiality I read in the constitution somewhere
Nov 13 07:50:41 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 13 07:50:49 <Leeds> third time asking, then I'll give up... is there any way to disable google chat/talk/IM/whatever so it doesn't get confused while I'm logged on with my PC?
Nov 13 07:51:03 <uncategorized> top of my christmas list:  root on rc30
Nov 13 07:51:11 <muthu_> second time asking.. ==> anyone know how sdk_deps.mk is created?
Nov 13 07:51:21 <muthu_> haha
Nov 13 07:51:22 <romainguy> remitaylor: probably, but I'm not the one you should ask this question
Nov 13 07:51:25 <RyeBrye> muthu_ - part of the build process :P
Nov 13 07:51:40 <muthu_> yeah, this whole make sucks
Nov 13 07:51:50 <RyeBrye> remitaylor - danfuzz is the Dalvik guy
Nov 13 07:52:07 <sal323> good ol' dan
Nov 13 07:52:27 <muthu_> add new template files to development/scripts/ and its not being picked up
Nov 13 07:52:34 <muthu_> s/add/added
Nov 13 07:52:36 <RyeBrye> Oh, romainguy - not to bug you, but I did do that setprop launcher.sensors 1 and restarted acore but no matter how wildly I shake my phone, all I do is look foolish
Nov 13 07:52:38 <fnordg1> Leeds: if theres no menu option, not sure
Nov 13 07:52:53 * RyeBrye will probably try to enable that by rebuilding his home next... 
Nov 13 07:52:55 <remitaylor> RyeBrye: thanks.  i really want a page or ... something ... where I can keep track of the status of Dalvik.  i suppose i could watch git logs.  my day job involves dynamic languages which work on the jvm so ... getting those puppies working on Dalvik ... yummilicious!
Nov 13 07:53:03 <romainguy> RyeBrye: check the logcat, it should print a message that confirms the sensors are activated
Nov 13 07:53:22 <RyeBrye> romainguy - will do.
Nov 13 07:53:43 * RyeBrye gives romainguy a pat on the back and says "cool platform, sorry we have a tendency to bitch so much"
Nov 13 07:53:46 <muthu_> may be a make clean will do.. but it takes an hour!
Nov 13 07:53:53 <romainguy> RyeBrye: lol thanks :)
Nov 13 07:54:44 <fnordg1> agreed. especially with nethack on it
Nov 13 07:54:55 <Leeds> fnordg1: actually, there is, but it took me a little bit of time to find it
Nov 13 07:55:10 * RyeBrye now has to think of some app he can sell for a small fee on the market so he can afford to buy every android phone that comes out from now on ;)
Nov 13 07:55:11 <fnordg1> Leeds: works?
Nov 13 07:55:39 <romainguy> RyeBrye: what about open source and free (as in free beer) stuff? :))
Nov 13 07:55:46 <tauno> "bashing android/google is like beating your wife - we do it because we love her/it!" (sorry for that horrible joke.. I'll shut up now)
Nov 13 07:56:00 <fnordg1> heh i'm buying aa spare
Nov 13 07:56:03 <Leeds> for the record, I like the feeling I'm getting from Android a lot... in a very good way, it could be the successor to the PalmOS platform
Nov 13 07:56:09 <Leeds> fnordg1: seems so, yes :-)
Nov 13 07:56:18 <remitaylor> romainguy: is there a standard project hosting site for open-source android apps, at the moment?  it's not as easy as i would expect to find open-source android apps ...
Nov 13 07:56:21 <romainguy> Leeds: given how many engineers from Palm we have...
Nov 13 07:56:24 <RyeBrye> romainguy - I'll build a few of those too... :) but I don't have a massive network of context-related advertising to help fund me :)
Nov 13 07:56:30 <romainguy> remitaylor: code.google.com?
Nov 13 07:56:35 <Leeds> there's a lot of potential... but we're definitely still at 1.0
Nov 13 07:56:40 <Leeds> romainguy: oh really? excellent!
Nov 13 07:56:44 <remitaylor> hehehe ... that sounds like a good, standard place
Nov 13 07:56:50 <romainguy> RyeBrye: better when it's the other who do the free work eh? :))
Nov 13 07:57:13 <RyeBrye> Yes, of course it is! :)
Nov 13 07:57:34 <Leeds> it would be good to have a nice directory of free software though
Nov 13 07:57:37 <RyeBrye> To be honest, I always try to put back into whatever open source projects I use at least as much as I take out by way of patches... etc.
Nov 13 07:57:45 <romainguy> RyeBrye: I'm just teasing you
Nov 13 07:57:50 <RyeBrye> I know you are - it's fair
Nov 13 07:58:11 <romainguy> (in my long years of open source work, I've seen too many people demand open source and free software and be very very very poor contributors themselves ;-)
Nov 13 07:58:30 <umdk1d3> remitaylor: http://code.google.com/hosting/search?q=label:android
Nov 13 07:58:34 <romainguy> http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/3026283987/ << love the dude at the top of this cliff
Nov 13 07:58:40 <tauno> I would LOVE to develop/release free apps.. I don't have a shortage of ideas etc.. It's just that my day job takes 8-10 hours of my day and I just don't have time to make things happen (no, I won't sacrifice my family life :)) and without the job there's no one to pay the rent ;)
Nov 13 07:58:48 <remitaylor> romainguy: to be fair, not everyone's a coder :P but yeah ... contribution is key
Nov 13 07:58:56 <remitaylor> umdk1d3: thanks!
Nov 13 07:59:03 <RyeBrye> Some projects it's hard to contribute to unless you are highly specialized.... although if LIRC does get into the kernel soon I'll have a few lines in the kernel I suppose
Nov 13 07:59:05 <romainguy> remitaylor: there are tons of ways to contribute without coding
Nov 13 07:59:10 <fnordg1> btw can the standard shell / display manager run native code? non-java etc
Nov 13 07:59:12 <romainguy> actually it's not coders most projects need ^^
Nov 13 07:59:17 <remitaylor> romainguy: *very* good point ... that's easy to forget!
Nov 13 07:59:18 <RyeBrye> documentation :)
Nov 13 07:59:31 <romainguy> remitaylor: feel free to write javadoc for Android classes btw ;-)
Nov 13 07:59:45 <tauno> Yeah. the one key thing that android is not that good at.. documentation ;)
Nov 13 07:59:45 <romainguy> if anybody wants to write the javadoc for ListView, I'd be very happy ^^
Nov 13 07:59:55 <romainguy> tauno: it's not too bad for an Open Source project :p
Nov 13 07:59:56 <muthu_> the google internal build process should merge with git asap
Nov 13 08:00:09 <tauno> romainguy, speaking of ListViews.. :D
Nov 13 08:00:13 <RyeBrye> Romainguy - doesn't IntelliJ just do that for you? Tools -> Generate JavaDoc ;)
Nov 13 08:00:23 <muthu_> haha
Nov 13 08:00:24 <romainguy> muthu_: like we said several time, we *know*, we want to do it, but it's NOT an easy task
Nov 13 08:00:25 <remitaylor> romainguy: screw that, imma release my apps as open-source instead!  i'm on this channel because i started a local Android Developers Group (phoenix, az) and we start tomorrow ... trying to get an app done before the 1st meeting/presentation :P
Nov 13 08:00:49 <muthu_> romainguy: good to know.. hope it comes soon
Nov 13 08:00:55 <RyeBrye> remitaylor - notepad ftw!
Nov 13 08:00:58 <remitaylor> hehehe
Nov 13 08:01:15 * RyeBrye was going to write an app tonight, but decided to come in here and flap his gums instead
Nov 13 08:01:16 <romainguy> muthu_: why do you need the mainline so bad anyway?
Nov 13 08:01:23 <romainguy> remitaylor: nice :)
Nov 13 08:01:37 <romainguy> reminds me I should start writing my demos for my presentations in December
Nov 13 08:01:38 <RyeBrye> I would start a group like that near me, but I hate people
Nov 13 08:01:50 <RyeBrye> maybe if we did the meetings online ;)
Nov 13 08:01:58 * RyeBrye jokes... he doesn't hate people... just meetings
Nov 13 08:02:03 <muthu_> romainguy: it would help people working from the outside
Nov 13 08:02:14 <romainguy> help in what sense?
Nov 13 08:02:14 <remitaylor> romainguy: is there a conf or something in December that i should know about ... or some internal thing @google ... ?
Nov 13 08:02:18 <RyeBrye> romainguy - I don't like patching old code, for one
Nov 13 08:02:29 <romainguy> muthu_: you'd have code that's quite different from the phones now :p
Nov 13 08:02:33 <romainguy> remitaylor: Devoxx in Europe
Nov 13 08:02:36 <RyeBrye> nothing is a bigger buzzkill than submitting a patch for a bug someone already fixed
Nov 13 08:02:59 <remitaylor> romainguy: nice!  that's a big far ... i'll watch for the presentations, online :)
Nov 13 08:03:12 <romainguy> RyeBrye: yeah I know
Nov 13 08:03:24 <romainguy> but we have years of tools and processes to switch over to git
Nov 13 08:03:29 <romainguy> even the layout of the project has changed
Nov 13 08:03:34 <romainguy> I barely know where the files are in git ^^
Nov 13 08:03:45 <remitaylor> ( git ftw :P )
Nov 13 08:04:10 <romainguy> remitaylor: except for the poor support in IDEs, sure :)
Nov 13 08:04:24 <romainguy> I'm gonna miss perforce's annotate
Nov 13 08:04:24 <RyeBrye> romainguy - what's the best resource for a high-level overview of the platform that then dives into code? (preferably not videos)
Nov 13 08:04:29 <romainguy> (but git looks awesome)
Nov 13 08:04:38 <remitaylor> hehehe ... i have vi ... what are these IDEs that you speak of?
Nov 13 08:04:39 <romainguy> RyeBrye: let me check
Nov 13 08:04:44 <RyeBrye> thanks
Nov 13 08:04:47 <romainguy> remitaylor: things that make you productive :)
Nov 13 08:05:24 * remitaylor is a ruby dev, a community which seems to have switched primarily to git over the past year, so he switched to ... and has learned to <3 git
Nov 13 08:05:41 <muthu_> git seems to be nice
Nov 13 08:05:50 <romainguy> ah, you're one of these fancy ruby/git kids :)
Nov 13 08:06:04 <Leeds> remitaylor: jruby-on-android? ;-)
Nov 13 08:06:04 <sal323> mercurial in the house!
Nov 13 08:06:10 <remitaylor> thas me!  now where's my JRuby on Dalvik??  :P
Nov 13 08:06:31 <sal323> and i'm looking for jython
Nov 13 08:06:31 <remitaylor> Leeds: that's my goal ... *in LIFE* :P
Nov 13 08:06:40 <Leeds> sal323: seconded
Nov 13 08:06:50 * Leeds is a python person
Nov 13 08:06:55 <romainguy> me too
Nov 13 08:07:02 <sal323> hello cousins
Nov 13 08:07:05 <romainguy> for some reason I cannot stand Ruby
Nov 13 08:07:11 <remitaylor> sal323: that's already a somewhat-working Jython implementation that works on Dalvik @ http://code.google.com/p/jythonroid
Nov 13 08:07:18 <Fnord^> jperl? :-O
Nov 13 08:07:20 <romainguy> that said when I tried to pick it up most of the documentation was in Japanese
Nov 13 08:07:23 <romainguy> it didn't help :)
Nov 13 08:07:23 <sal323> working?
Nov 13 08:07:23 <RyeBrye> jfortran?
Nov 13 08:07:26 <remitaylor> sal323: although the developer emailed me today and said that it's nor *really* that stable
Nov 13 08:07:33 <Fnord^> http://code.google.com/p/jperl/ <----!!!!
Nov 13 08:07:42 <sal323> lol
Nov 13 08:07:45 <Leeds> cobol?
Nov 13 08:07:50 <sal323> what happened to parrot?
Nov 13 08:07:59 <Leeds> sal323: it's dead :-P
Nov 13 08:08:03 <remitaylor> the problem with all of these dynamic languages is ... Dalvik can't run java bytecode that's generated, on the fly
Nov 13 08:08:12 <romainguy> http://www.is-research.de/info/vmlanguages/ << all these languages are available for porting, have fun :)
Nov 13 08:08:31 <romainguy> remitaylor: they could still work... slowly but they could still work
Nov 13 08:08:38 <Leeds> sal323: I think it may officially be part of perl6... but nobody really cares about perl6 anyway
Nov 13 08:08:49 <remitaylor> if you port any of them to dalvik, you'd have to disable the dynamic bytecode generation, for now ... which might make them far less worth actually using, in some cases.
Nov 13 08:09:48 <Leeds> I have no idea what the internals of dalvik look like, but does that mean there'd be no point in trying to port them to a dalvik backend?
Nov 13 08:09:51 <remitaylor> romainguy: the ones the compile down to normal java bytecode and don't need on-the-fly compilation/execution should work at the same speed as normal java, and be convertable to dex ... should they not?  if anything they might simply generate more code, in the background, meaning a larger dex file & more memory
Nov 13 08:10:09 <romainguy> remitaylor: I was thinking of languages based on a pure interpreter
Nov 13 08:10:36 <romainguy> Leeds: Dalvik is open sourced now :p
Nov 13 08:10:48 <Fnord^> What about dalvik running native code?
Nov 13 08:10:51 <remitaylor> Leeds: if you know how dalvik works ... dynamic jvm languages == FAIL.  this is a *great* video, imho, for learning about dalvik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptjedOZEXPM (Google I/O 2008 - Dalvik Virtual Machine Internals)
Nov 13 08:11:00 <romainguy> Fnord^: why would a VM run native code?
Nov 13 08:11:00 <Leeds> romainguy: I know that, but I'm not an interpreter/compiler/VM guy :-)
Nov 13 08:11:19 <romainguy> all I want is a better GC :p
Nov 13 08:11:27 <romainguy> that would give us such a performance boost in the UIs
Nov 13 08:11:36 <Leeds> remitaylor: bookmarker to watch later, thanks
Nov 13 08:11:37 <remitaylor> romainguy: yeeaaahh ... that'd be kinda slow :P ... *could* be worth it, depending on the device's resources, though.
Nov 13 08:11:48 <Fnord^> romainguy, resource effeciency I imagine
Nov 13 08:11:58 <romainguy> remitaylor: well Dalvik being interpreted already... :)
Nov 13 08:12:11 <romainguy> Fnord^: the whole purpose of native code is that it's not run by a VM :)
Nov 13 08:12:16 <Leeds> would I be right in saying that there's no 'sane' way, currently, for native code to write to the screen/UI?
Nov 13 08:12:41 <remitaylor> romainguy: yeah ... well i still want me some JRuby.  i'm drooling over the beautiful DSLs it could create ... whether you like the Ruby syntax, or not :P
Nov 13 08:12:43 <Fnord^> romainguy, Well s/dalvik/whatever's in charge of display/execution/etc
Nov 13 08:12:49 <romainguy> Leeds: actually there might be, using a SurfaceView, but I don't know enough details
Nov 13 08:13:02 <tauno> romainguy, what are you going to talk about @ devoxx?
Nov 13 08:13:31 <romainguy> tauno: user interfaces (cool features, animations, advanced drawing, optimization, etc.)
Nov 13 08:13:48 <stanter> uuuf...dirty
Nov 13 08:13:52 * tauno goes searching through the devoxx website..
Nov 13 08:13:59 <romainguy> well the talk is entitled "filthy rich clients"
Nov 13 08:14:01 <romainguy> so yeah, dirty :)
Nov 13 08:14:14 <romainguy> tauno: I have two sessions actually
Nov 13 08:14:20 <tauno> romainguy, yeah, original title ;)
Nov 13 08:14:27 <romainguy> lol
Nov 13 08:14:34 <trav530> me wonders about the key in otacerts.  what is it?  ota-rel-keys?  release-keys?
Nov 13 08:14:35 <romainguy> I know I know :)
Nov 13 08:14:35 <stanter> yeah i hacked res_init.c so that it stopped looking at properties for the dns servers
Nov 13 08:14:54 <stanter> i have something seriously broken with the property service
Nov 13 08:14:58 <sal323> romainguy: gerrit is a fork from rietveld, right?
Nov 13 08:15:05 <tauno> romainguy, ah.. I see it's "Filthy Rich Android Clients" :)
Nov 13 08:15:21 <romainguy> sal323: I think it was written from scratch actually
Nov 13 08:15:32 <romainguy> sal323: but I'm not sure, it might be a fork from rietveld
Nov 13 08:16:22 <tauno> romainguy, what's the title of the 2nd session?
Nov 13 08:16:27 <stanter> Hey Leeds, Fnord^, others from last night (my time)
Nov 13 08:16:30 <romainguy> sal323: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=tools/gerrit.git;a=tree
Nov 13 08:16:39 <romainguy> tauno: "Filthy Rich Clients: Beyond Java" or something like this
Nov 13 08:16:50 <Fnord^> yoh
Nov 13 08:16:52 <romainguy> it's about Flex and Android
Nov 13 08:17:06 <RyeBrye> Oh?
Nov 13 08:17:22 <RyeBrye> Romainguy - Flex and android?
Nov 13 08:17:30 <romainguy> not Flex on android :p
Nov 13 08:17:35 <RyeBrye> oh :)
Nov 13 08:17:51 * RyeBrye is a java / flex developer by day :)
Nov 13 08:17:52 <romainguy> the friend with whom I used to give the Filthy Rich Clients talk at JavaOne left Sun and now works at Adobe on Flex
Nov 13 08:17:53 <romainguy> so...
Nov 13 08:17:57 <romainguy> hehe nice
Nov 13 08:18:33 <RyeBrye> Adobe says stuff like they have a version of the Flash player that will run on phones - but I doubt Flex apps will be on a phone any time soon
Nov 13 08:18:54 <romainguy> reasonable Flex app could I guess
Nov 13 08:19:04 <romainguy> that's the beauty with their decision of compiling the framework bits in the app
Nov 13 08:19:08 <stanter> yeah flashlite doesn't support the latest actionscript
Nov 13 08:19:20 <romainguy> but Flash has many more issues to solve
Nov 13 08:19:32 <romainguy> it seems they're still struggling to get proper hw acceleration
Nov 13 08:19:35 <RyeBrye> Romainguy - I'd be more interested in something like AIR
Nov 13 08:19:37 <Leeds> "We regret to inform developers that Android 1.0 will not include support for dot-matrix printers."
Nov 13 08:19:39 <romainguy> (even though I loooove the PixelBender)
Nov 13 08:20:33 <RyeBrye> Their framework has some dirty corners that are computational nightmares - someone using setStyle incorrectly can bring a modern desktop computer to its knees
Nov 13 08:20:37 <RyeBrye> I bet it would make a phone explode
Nov 13 08:20:46 <romainguy> yeah I know :)
Nov 13 08:21:04 <romainguy> and some of their rendering methods would be a nightmare to hw accelerate and keep the same rendering as in software
Nov 13 08:21:20 <stanter> still talking about problems with Flash?
Nov 13 08:21:27 <RyeBrye> Yeah
Nov 13 08:21:40 <romainguy> that's actually my issue with AIR apps, even my MacPro cannot run them correctly if they are big enough on screen
Nov 13 08:21:42 <RyeBrye> But if they can pull off a version that will even work mildly well on a phone, that'd be cool
Nov 13 08:21:49 <romainguy> yeah
Nov 13 08:21:57 <romainguy> although I wouldn't be surprised if they need tons of RAM
Nov 13 08:21:57 <RyeBrye> for simple form apps and stuff
Nov 13 08:22:11 <romainguy> given how websites abuse resources like sound and bitmaps in Flash movies
Nov 13 08:22:15 <sal323> looks like rietveld
Nov 13 08:22:18 <stanter> what exactly is it about the flash runtime that makes it slow?
Nov 13 08:22:24 <romainguy> sal323: then it probably is :)
Nov 13 08:22:27 <RyeBrye> It's not slow on the desktop
Nov 13 08:22:38 <RyeBrye> Flash on the desktop can be remarkably fast
Nov 13 08:22:44 <romainguy> RyeBrye: the core VM no, but the drawing...
Nov 13 08:23:06 <RyeBrye> Romainguy - have you seen what the guys have done with papervision3d in Flash?
Nov 13 08:23:11 <romainguy> yes
Nov 13 08:23:12 <stanter> i have no hardware acceleration on my device, yet the android cube demo works very well, if i try the a similar demo using flashlite on my machine it would crawl
Nov 13 08:23:17 <romainguy> that's really cool
Nov 13 08:23:28 <romainguy> stanter: ARM device?
Nov 13 08:23:29 <tauno> oh god... I just found that somebody here uses empty TextView's to add padding/margins to other visible views..
Nov 13 08:23:31 <stanter> * my device i mean
Nov 13 08:23:33 <stanter> yes ARM
Nov 13 08:23:48 <sal323> romainguy: nick is romanian, right?
Nov 13 08:23:55 <Leeds> tauno: like table layout :-)
Nov 13 08:23:56 <romainguy> stanter: then it's probably using the fancy code flinger that outputs assembly ARM for OpenGL :)
Nov 13 08:24:00 <romainguy> sal323: ?
Nov 13 08:24:15 <stanter> ah that would make sense
Nov 13 08:24:21 <sal323> curious about the  nick
Nov 13 08:24:26 <stanter> so its almost like a just in time compiler
Nov 13 08:24:28 <kRutOn> sal323: That's his name...
Nov 13 08:24:35 <romainguy> sal323: it's just my real name :)
Nov 13 08:24:40 <romainguy> stanter: for GL, yes :)
Nov 13 08:24:52 <romainguy> stanter: the 2D library, SGL, is pure C++ code though
Nov 13 08:24:57 <romainguy> no hw acceleration at all
Nov 13 08:25:05 <sal323> cool name
Nov 13 08:25:19 <stanter> right, so you would expect the same performance as flash?
Nov 13 08:25:34 <RyeBrye> Cool... from the  *#*#INFO#*#* screen you can disable the phone's radio
Nov 13 08:25:39 <romainguy> stanter: for equal drawing operations, yes
Nov 13 08:25:46 <romainguy> stanter: but Flash is a lot more than just a 2D api
Nov 13 08:25:51 <spikebike> ryebrye and still keep wifi?
Nov 13 08:25:54 <stanter> sure
Nov 13 08:25:56 <RyeBrye> spikebike - yep :)
Nov 13 08:25:59 <spikebike> nice
Nov 13 08:26:04 <RyeBrye> spikebike - you can also turn off ciphering
Nov 13 08:26:04 <Leeds> RyeBrye: the what screen?
Nov 13 08:26:11 <stanter> and i guess that is where some of the inefficiencies come in
Nov 13 08:26:12 <RyeBrye> in the dial screen type  *#*#INFO#*#*
Nov 13 08:26:12 <spikebike> what is ciphering?
Nov 13 08:26:14 <romainguy> Leeds: type *#*#INFO#*#* in the dialer
Nov 13 08:26:17 <sal323> is there a way to make android phone look like usb storage from xp?
Nov 13 08:26:29 <romainguy> stanter: well Flash uses a retain mode API
Nov 13 08:26:31 <kRutOn> RyeBrye: Geez, I was wondering where I could do that...
Nov 13 08:26:35 <RyeBrye> spikebike - no idea - probably some kind of basic encryption to make your thing harder to listen in on
Nov 13 08:26:41 <romainguy> stanter: so it needs to have a DOM representation of the scene, etc.
Nov 13 08:26:49 <Leeds> ooh :-)
Nov 13 08:26:50 <kRutOn> RyeBrye: Mine has never registered on a network at all, but I still couldn't turn off the phone part..
Nov 13 08:27:13 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I bet that would save a lot of battery to have it off
Nov 13 08:27:20 <kRutOn> sal323: When you plug it in, it has a little USB symbol in the notification bar...
Nov 13 08:27:38 <sal323> kRutOn: i got that
Nov 13 08:27:44 <Leeds> ooh, I can turn 3G off... nice
Nov 13 08:27:45 <kRutOn> RyeBrye: Also, having QXDM logs is nice
Nov 13 08:27:53 <RyeBrye> What are the QXDM logs?
Nov 13 08:27:57 <romainguy> Leeds: you can turn off 3G in the regular settings :))
Nov 13 08:28:02 <kRutOn> use for debugging radio issues
Nov 13 08:28:22 <kRutOn> If you have the QXDM software
Nov 13 08:28:23 <sal323> i even get a mounted E drive ... but can't read from it
Nov 13 08:28:25 <remitaylor> is `adb uninstall foo.apk` supposed to work? ... i always get 'Failure'  :(
Nov 13 08:28:26 <stanter> right right that explains flashlite's programming model
Nov 13 08:28:33 <romainguy> remitaylor: adb uninstall com.your.package
Nov 13 08:28:40 <remitaylor> ah ha!  :)
Nov 13 08:28:56 <Gary13579> AnyCuts let you into that *#*#INFO#*#* screen for like months :P
Nov 13 08:29:19 <RyeBrye> I know - but it's so much more fun to type  *#*#INFO#*#*
Nov 13 08:29:26 <Leeds> romainguy: oh, so I can - and I've already selected it
Nov 13 08:29:36 <Gary13579> RyeBrye: makes you feel leet?
Nov 13 08:29:46 <remitaylor> another thing i noticed tonight ... i couldn't install 2 apk's with the same package name (but a different activity name) ... is that standard?  the package name must be unique, per app?
Nov 13 08:29:54 <romainguy> fun fact: any app can create a new *#*#STUFF#*#* code :))
Nov 13 08:30:00 <romainguy> great for easter eggs
Nov 13 08:30:19 <romainguy> remitaylor: the package name is the UID of the app basically
Nov 13 08:30:39 <romainguy> remitaylor: it's used for many different things (like loading resources, etc.)
Nov 13 08:31:21 <Gary13579> did we really need a port scanner for android...
Nov 13 08:31:31 <BHSPitMonkey> of course...
Nov 13 08:31:36 <Fnord^> someone just released one on market
Nov 13 08:31:38 <remitaylor> romainguy: cool, thanks
Nov 13 08:31:41 <Gary13579> I saw
Nov 13 08:31:54 <Gary13579> I'm sure that's going to make t-mobile extatic with their new 3g network
Nov 13 08:32:08 <Gary13579> *ecstatic, sorry >.<
Nov 13 08:32:09 <ExpiredPopsicle> The wardriving app is cool, but I dunno about a port scanner. D:
Nov 13 08:32:10 <BHSPitMonkey> maybe it only works on wifi?
Nov 13 08:32:31 <Gary13579> wardriving is nice and useful, because you can just throw it in your pocket and it takes care of itself
Nov 13 08:32:46 <Gary13579> there's no reason you'd need a port scanner without having access to a notebook...
Nov 13 08:33:10 <Gary13579> "HEY I WONDER IF THIS RANDOM IP I JUST THOUGHT OF RUNS FTP"
Nov 13 08:33:11 <Gary13579> etc
Nov 13 08:33:36 * RyeBrye manually uses telnet and simply does the cryptography in his head for all connections
Nov 13 08:33:47 <Gary13579> heh
Nov 13 08:33:48 <ExpiredPopsicle> Hmm... A wifi sniffer would be cool. But would probably need root. =P (Speaking of network tools...)
Nov 13 08:33:55 <Leeds> Gary13579: when you say 'notebook' you mean 'portable network-enabled computing device', right?
Nov 13 08:33:59 <Gary13579> ExpiredPopsicle: theres one on the market
Nov 13 08:34:10 <Gary13579> Wifiscan or something
Nov 13 08:34:13 <ExpiredPopsicle> Really? :o
Nov 13 08:34:13 <tauno> romainguy, typing this in will just broadcast an Intent?
Nov 13 08:34:26 <Gary13579> Leeds: Well, yes. Essentially anything that's bigger than, well, your hand.
Nov 13 08:34:41 <BHSPitMonkey> Gary13579, I think he means actual packet collection
Nov 13 08:34:45 <romainguy> tauno: the *#*# thing?
Nov 13 08:34:52 <tauno> Gary13579, wifiscan crashes on my g1 during startup :(
Nov 13 08:34:54 <tauno> romainguy, yes
Nov 13 08:35:03 <Gary13579> Ahh yeah, that's a bit more then, and might need root
Nov 13 08:35:07 <romainguy> tauno: yes
Nov 13 08:35:20 <Leeds> Gary13579: why does it have to be bigger than my hand?
Nov 13 08:35:24 <sal323> once u apply mod rc30, there's no need to keep update.zip and recovery_testkeys.img on the sdcard, right?
Nov 13 08:35:33 <Gary13579> no
Nov 13 08:35:46 <RyeBrye> Speaking of interesting uses for wifi: http://fonerahacks.com/index.php/Tutorials-and-Guides/The-Fon-Bomb-Wireless-Jammer.html Maybe somoene can make a Wifi Bomb app for the G1 ;)
Nov 13 08:36:03 <Leeds> is there a list (ideally a public one, rather than in the source) of all broadcast intents?
Nov 13 08:36:37 <Gary13579> Leeds: Well, maybe you have gigantic hands. Give me a reason that you'd need to port scan someone when you don't have any PC around you.
Nov 13 08:36:40 <stanter> wooooot! google.com just loaded
Nov 13 08:37:02 <stanter> cheers to all of you who helped!
Nov 13 08:37:07 <RyeBrye> Gary13579 - I'm sure some dorky sysadmin will use it as part of his "security sweep" or something
Nov 13 08:37:10 <Gary13579> Maybe if you are behind some firewalled connection you could use the g1 for it, but ssh tunneling would be faster/more reliable/easier to use.
Nov 13 08:37:38 <Leeds> Gary13579: my point is... I assume you are saying there's no point having a port-scanner when all you have is a phone... my phone runs Linux, has a keyboard and network connection - so that makes it just as useful, in principle, as a notebook
Nov 13 08:38:18 <Gary13579> Leeds: A notebook is ten times faster, in both system speed and usability
Nov 13 08:38:33 <Leeds> you have a 5GHZ notebook?
Nov 13 08:38:38 <Gary13579> Why do you have a computer when you have a G1?
Nov 13 08:38:39 <kRutOn> hm
Nov 13 08:38:42 <Gary13579> You could just carry that with you.
Nov 13 08:38:52 <Gary13579> No need for a keyboard, you've got that tiny thing that you can barely read ;)
Nov 13 08:39:12 <Gary13579> It was an exaggeration, obviously. But the point remains.
Nov 13 08:39:30 <sal323> We need bigger batteries :D
Nov 13 08:39:31 <RyeBrye> A notebook does not need to be 5Ghz to be 10x faster than an ARM cpu
Nov 13 08:39:33 <Gary13579> (and the newer core duo would be close to 5 ghz, yes)
Nov 13 08:39:39 <Gary13579> plus that, heh.
Nov 13 08:40:00 <Leeds> RyeBrye: also an exaggeration, of course :-)
Nov 13 08:40:02 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 13 08:40:05 <ExpiredPopsicle> Okay. There are plenty of reasons to have a port scanner on a G1. Unfortunately the majority of them are very bad and will probably make T-Mobile reconsider either the idea of such an open platform or tighten their restrictions on network usage.
Nov 13 08:40:07 <sal323> or wireless power
Nov 13 08:40:10 <RyeBrye> I bet a 500 MHz i7 would be 10x faster :)
Nov 13 08:40:35 <Leeds> ExpiredPopsicle: t-mobile have no say in what I do or do not do with my phone
Nov 13 08:40:46 <tauno> romainguy, may I ask why did you drop the margin/padding model in favor of only paddings?
Nov 13 08:40:50 <ExpiredPopsicle> They do if you do it over their network...
Nov 13 08:40:58 <Leeds> I am a long way from their network
Nov 13 08:41:08 <swetland> but that's a totally separate issue
Nov 13 08:41:25 <swetland> nothing stops someone from dropping a TMO (or any other) SIM in a laptop cellular modem and doing whatever
Nov 13 08:41:32 <sal323> does everyone have plenty of battery power?
Nov 13 08:41:37 <Fnord^> i wonder what would break if one used route to pipe everything over openvpn to a datacenter somewhere?
Nov 13 08:42:06 <swetland> at the end of the day, if it's an abuse of the operators TOS that's something for them to deal with one way or the other and is independent of what hardware is used
Nov 13 08:42:17 <ExpiredPopsicle> Quite a few ISPs do have policies in place against port scanning.
Nov 13 08:42:27 <ExpiredPopsicle> Indeed.
Nov 13 08:42:42 <RyeBrye> seriously? like nmap is some kind of terrorism?
Nov 13 08:43:25 <RyeBrye> I routiinely scan my public IP's subnet with nmap just out of curiosity
Nov 13 08:43:31 <Gary13579> (02:42:05) (RyeBrye) I bet a 500 MHz i7 would be 10x faster :)
Nov 13 08:43:34 <swetland> rye: "it's a kind of terrorist attack" is a game that US (and other) law enforcement has been playing for a while now to escalate the severity of all kinds of stuff...
Nov 13 08:43:52 <Gary13579> Can't remember what all the i7 added, the only thing that comes to mind is two threads per core.
Nov 13 08:43:57 <RyeBrye> swetland - to true
Nov 13 08:44:09 <Gary13579> Would two threads running at the same time double the speed, or not quite that fast?
Nov 13 08:44:10 <ExpiredPopsicle> It's usually indicative of an attempt to attack or an infected system.
Nov 13 08:44:30 <Gary13579> ExpiredPopsicle: My old ISP blocked port scanning, nmap would get around 100 ports scanned and my connection would drop.
Nov 13 08:44:44 <Gary13579> Couldn't reconnect for 5ish minutes.
Nov 13 08:44:58 <ExpiredPopsicle> Fun
Nov 13 08:45:06 <Gary13579> Was annoying as fuck :/
Nov 13 08:45:25 <spikebike> oh, heh core i7 discussion
Nov 13 08:45:31 <ExpiredPopsicle> Can't have been as bad as when I was on DirecWay internet, though. =P
Nov 13 08:45:58 <Gary13579> Between that and my router, I got pretty annoyed.
Nov 13 08:46:10 <spikebike> Gary13579: more like 10% faster (total)
Nov 13 08:46:11 <remitaylor> Gary13579: hehehe ... nmap.  fyodor tried scanning millions of IPs, to test nmap ... turns out, not only was his ISP unhappy ... the DoD wasn't too pleased either :P
Nov 13 08:46:28 <ExpiredPopsicle> haha
Nov 13 08:46:30 <ExpiredPopsicle> Woops.
Nov 13 08:46:32 <RyeBrye> Gary13579 - i7 adds threads per core (basically hyperthreading) - FSB is replaced by QuickPath interface, On-processor memory controller,
Nov 13 08:46:55 <RyeBrye> So the guy was scanning military subnets or something?
Nov 13 08:47:06 <spikebike> and the big one
Nov 13 08:47:16 <spikebike> one shared memory bus per node has been replaced by 3 memory busses per socket
Nov 13 08:47:21 <RyeBrye> Ah right
Nov 13 08:47:22 <spikebike> oh and the memory controller moved on chip
Nov 13 08:47:30 <spikebike> so a dual socket goes from 1 memory bus to 6!
Nov 13 08:47:36 <ExpiredPopsicle> Did he talk to the WOPR? :V
Nov 13 08:47:58 <remitaylor> RyeBrye: if thats re: my comment, he randomly generated IPs, meaning some of the IPs were military, etc ... if not, then carry on!
Nov 13 08:48:07 <tauno> I'm happy that port scanning is not illegal in any way here.. and it's also not blocked by the ISP's nor is it against their TOS or whatever :)
Nov 13 08:48:11 <RyeBrye> remitaylor - that's funny
Nov 13 08:48:28 * RyeBrye will start port scanning as a form of civil disobedience tonight
Nov 13 08:48:32 <spikebike> should announce in the next week or so, and be by far the fastest chip available
Nov 13 08:48:41 <RyeBrye> if port scanning is outlawed, only outlaws will portscan!
Nov 13 08:48:44 <spikebike> I'm considering the 2.66 GHz version for a new desktop
Nov 13 08:49:00 <RyeBrye> yeah, the i7 is nuts - but $$$
Nov 13 08:49:06 <spikebike> dunno
Nov 13 08:49:16 <spikebike> I bought a q6600 for $300 and feel like a got a very good deal
Nov 13 08:49:28 <spikebike> the new chip is $300 ish at 2.66 GHz
Nov 13 08:49:29 <ExpiredPopsicle> I got a Q6600 and I'm really happy with it.
Nov 13 08:49:37 <Gary13579> Q6600 here... $190 I think
Nov 13 08:49:45 <Gary13579> Running at 3 GHz
Nov 13 08:50:08 <spikebike> the 2.66 GHz core i7 is faster than the 3+ Ghz quad core of the previous gen
Nov 13 08:50:29 <ExpiredPopsicle> Compiling stuff on a quadcore is, dare I say, fun?
Nov 13 08:50:39 <spikebike> heh, yeah
Nov 13 08:50:43 <RyeBrye> I have a Q9550 runnning at 3.66 Ghz right now
Nov 13 08:50:44 <spikebike> or transcoding a movie
Nov 13 08:50:49 <ExpiredPopsicle> "make -j 4"
Nov 13 08:51:02 <spikebike> yeah the 9550 @ 3.2 < core i7 @ 2.66 or similar
Nov 13 08:51:06 <RyeBrye> you can do make -j 8 and still get a speed boost
Nov 13 08:51:07 <Gary13579> Video encoding still sucks here
Nov 13 08:51:09 <kRutOn> hm, looks like ConnectBot isn't on Market anymore
Nov 13 08:51:11 <Leeds> bah, we used to "make -j16" back in my Solaris days
Nov 13 08:51:15 <Gary13579> I'm using a 8 year old IDE HDD
Nov 13 08:51:17 <spikebike> so twice the threads and 3 times the memory bandwidth sounds good to me
Nov 13 08:51:39 <spikebike> I love being able to fire a few things off and still have a responsive machine
Nov 13 08:51:42 <RyeBrye> spikebike - so save the dough and get a Q9550 @ 3.6 and the money you would spend on the $$ motherboard and the $$$ RAM you can spend on the $ CPU cooler and the $ time spent to get the OC up
Nov 13 08:51:44 <ExpiredPopsicle> RyeBrye: Really? I'll have to give that a try. One time I accidentally did "make -j 44" and the whole system froze, though. >_>
Nov 13 08:51:44 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 13 08:52:09 <RyeBrye> ExpiredPopsicle - I've tried various numbers up to 16 and had no problems
Nov 13 08:52:22 <RyeBrye> ExpiredPopsicle - the kernel compiling threads usually say 2 jobs per core
Nov 13 08:52:48 <ExpiredPopsicle> Spiffy.
Nov 13 08:53:10 <Gary13579> Swap files on IDE HDDs suck, so much ugh
Nov 13 08:53:35 <spikebike> I suspect the Q9550 @ 3.6 GHz will cost me a pretty penny in extra power, not to mention AC
Nov 13 08:53:36 <ExpiredPopsicle> I'm at the point in one project right now where I go make a sandwich when it compiles on my weaker system.
Nov 13 08:54:09 <RyeBrye> spikebike - AC is cheap - and speedstep technology is great :)
Nov 13 08:54:32 <Leeds> ExpiredPopsicle: I worked on a project at Sun for a couple of years which took 8-10 hours to compile
Nov 13 08:55:14 <RyeBrye> spikebike - I know some people have gotten there Q9550's up to 4 GHz- I got mine to boot that high but it was nowhere near stable
Nov 13 08:55:15 <spikebike> well I'm somewhat of a memory bandwidth fiend...
Nov 13 08:55:19 <muthu_> Leeds: so you start compile, and leave for the day :P
Nov 13 08:55:37 <ExpiredPopsicle> And pray you don't have a syntax error in there somewhere? XD
Nov 13 08:55:41 <RyeBrye> The i7 is good - and if you have the dough go fo rit
Nov 13 08:55:45 <Leeds> exactly
Nov 13 08:55:54 <Leeds> check it when you get home... check it again before bed...
Nov 13 08:56:03 <spikebike> ram is dirt cheap, hadn't looked at motherboards
Nov 13 08:56:12 <RyeBrye> DDR3 RAM?
Nov 13 08:56:17 <RyeBrye> Dirt cheap?
Nov 13 08:56:33 <spikebike> my last system with the q6600 was $1200 ish and that was only because I spent an extra $300 on it to get it extra silent
Nov 13 08:56:36 <spikebike> er quiet
Nov 13 08:57:33 <RyeBrye> I built an HTPC Q9550 rig for around $1500 - $250 of it being the spiffy case with LCD screen...
Nov 13 08:58:46 <ExpiredPopsicle> That $300 is sounding like a good investment. My Q6600 system sounds like a jet engine.
Nov 13 09:00:02 <spikebike> heh yeah, I got the nice antec case
Nov 13 09:00:19 <spikebike> a giant cpu heat sink with no fan
Nov 13 09:00:28 <ExpiredPopsicle> Ah. Nice.
Nov 13 09:00:29 <spikebike> no cpu fan on the motherboard of grpahic scard
Nov 13 09:00:45 <spikebike> and the antex case places TWO 120 mm fans within 1 inch of 2 sides of my cpu fan
Nov 13 09:00:49 <spikebike> antec
Nov 13 09:01:02 <spikebike> drives are mounted on soft mounts
Nov 13 09:01:29 <ExpiredPopsicle> My case... has a metal plate that says "Standard 286" attached to it.
Nov 13 09:02:13 <spikebike> Also got a high efficiency power supply with a heat controlled fan
Nov 13 09:02:22 <Leeds> "my other phone is an iPhone"
Nov 13 09:03:29 <spikebike> ryebrye yes I consider $32 per GB of ram dirt cheap
Nov 13 09:08:51 <mib_7poz3m> fdsa
Nov 13 09:08:52 <mib_7poz3m> fdsaf
Nov 13 09:08:53 <mib_7poz3m> asfdsafsdafsdafasd
Nov 13 09:09:07 <ExpiredPopsicle> My thoughts exactly.
Nov 13 09:10:59 <Gary13579> Question, would you be able to use the iptables tethering method on Windows?
Nov 13 09:11:31 <Gary13579> (03:05:24) (spikebike) ryebrye yes I consider $32 per GB of ram dirt cheap
Nov 13 09:11:40 <Gary13579> There was 2 GB for $20, single sticks, on newegg the other day
Nov 13 09:11:40 <Gary13579> sec
Nov 13 09:13:00 <Gary13579> spikebike: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227335&nm_mc=AFC-Bensbargains&cm_mmc=AFC-Bensbargains-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA
Nov 13 09:13:04 <Gary13579> Sorry, it's 2x 1 GB.
Nov 13 09:13:11 <Impossible> morning
Nov 13 09:13:28 <Gary13579> But free shipping!
Nov 13 09:13:49 <Impossible> the G1's in the uk are having an update pushed to them
Nov 13 09:14:01 <Impossible> recived mine this morning
Nov 13 09:14:23 <Impossible> i take it that its going to keep asking me to update, if i refuse
Nov 13 09:15:15 <spikebike> ya
Nov 13 09:15:22 <spikebike> unless you upgrade or move otacers
Nov 13 09:15:25 <spikebike> otacerts
Nov 13 09:15:47 <Impossible> im just moving the keys atm
Nov 13 09:16:18 <Impossible> from what i read, the downloadable version of the update needs to be released then that update can be hacked to prevent the update blocking root.... correct?
Nov 13 09:17:21 <spikebike> er
Nov 13 09:17:25 <spikebike> not sure I understand
Nov 13 09:17:32 <spikebike> the ota update will likely remove root
Nov 13 09:17:46 <spikebike> you can get that update repackaged and do it yourself and keep root
Nov 13 09:18:39 <Impossible> spikebike, thats what i was confirming =)
Nov 13 09:18:51 <Impossible> lo cmonex
Nov 13 09:21:22 <umdk1d3> yay im freaking excited  ^.^
Nov 13 09:21:26 <umdk1d3> can wait to write all this up  :)
Nov 13 09:21:41 <umdk1d3> doing some very cool webview magic
Nov 13 09:22:03 <Gary13579> "However, what's interesting is that they do not do this re-writing if your User-Agent indicates that you're browsing from the on-phone browser."
Nov 13 09:22:05 <Gary13579> the hell
Nov 13 09:22:31 <Gary13579> wouldn't the compression be pretty useful on the phone?
Nov 13 09:23:09 <Leeds> Gary13579: context?
Nov 13 09:23:16 <Gary13579> err sorry that was sortta bad
Nov 13 09:23:26 <Gary13579> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2892631&postcount=32
Nov 13 09:23:45 <Impossible> ^^ i noticed this
Nov 13 09:24:03 <Impossible> i downloaded some wallpapers though the browser and the jpeg artifacts were awful
Nov 13 09:24:15 <Impossible> emailed them myself and it looked normal
Nov 13 09:25:27 <Gary13579> Impossible: supposedly they aren't blocked on the g1s browser
Nov 13 09:25:38 <Gary13579> or if you use the browsers user-agent
Nov 13 09:26:23 <Impossible> hmm
Nov 13 09:26:42 <umdk1d3> hmm
Nov 13 09:26:54 <umdk1d3> ive heard rumors that there is a tmobile proxy that helps compress stuff on 3g
Nov 13 09:27:07 <umdk1d3> or does this happen on wifi too?
Nov 13 09:27:17 <Leeds> no way it could happen on wifi
Nov 13 09:27:40 <Impossible> thats right leeds
Nov 13 09:27:48 <Impossible> cos the wifi aint got the proxy addy
Nov 13 09:27:51 <umdk1d3> the rumored workaround is to use anything non-port-80, and it will bypass the proxy
Nov 13 09:28:35 <umdk1d3> so the wallpaper site could run their stuff on :81 as well, and then have the phone make its requests to solve that
Nov 13 09:28:37 <Impossible> sorry for making it sound simple, but wouldnt the browser cfg have the proxy settings in?
Nov 13 09:28:53 <umdk1d3> well in this case they are deciding at the router level to help you out
Nov 13 09:28:53 <Impossible> thats a way to get around proxies
Nov 13 09:28:56 <Gary13579> Impossible: technically they can, by faking DNS servers
Nov 13 09:29:11 <umdk1d3> they dont really need to fake the dns, because they run the actual routers  ;)
Nov 13 09:29:13 <Impossible> and putting a static DNS entry under the wifi?
Nov 13 09:29:22 <Gary13579> yeah
Nov 13 09:29:23 <Gary13579> they wouldn't
Nov 13 09:29:27 <Gary13579> but they COULD :P
Nov 13 09:29:57 <Gary13579> umdk1d3: by faking I mostly meant just ignoring whatever the user/router sets
Nov 13 09:45:53 <fnordg1> hmm proxy config doesnt  work?
Nov 13 09:47:54 <fnordg1> has anyone linked openvpn to native libs?
Nov 13 10:11:59 <andatche> still no sign of an OTA update in the UK :(
Nov 13 10:13:29 <Leeds> andatche: Impossible reported getting one this morning
Nov 13 10:13:47 <andatche> ah cool
Nov 13 10:17:01 <Impossible> yeah
Nov 13 10:17:07 <Impossible> i just renamed my keys to prevent it
Nov 13 10:17:15 <Impossible> was getting update notices every 20 mins
Nov 13 10:17:58 <remitaylor> lame question, but i can't quite figure it out ... what do i need to import to get showAlert?  isn't defined for me ... (following a tutorial) ...
Nov 13 10:18:27 <remitaylor> ( i'm in the context of an Activity )
Nov 13 10:20:16 <remitaylor> ah!  nevermind ... was removed from the SDK (old tutorial) ... AlertDialog instead :)
Nov 13 10:36:14 <coolhookup> hello to all
Nov 13 11:27:55 <Chainfire> Fnord ... you the Spring guy?
Nov 13 11:30:01 <Foxdie> andatche, still on RC19?
Nov 13 11:30:28 <Foxdie> has anyone in the UK received an OTA update?
Nov 13 11:30:45 <Foxdie> I've been tempted to get one, but am holding back until it matures a little
Nov 13 11:31:45 <Leeds> Foxdie: Impossible reported getting one this morning...
Nov 13 11:32:57 <andatche> Foxdie: in the UK, on RC4 atm
Nov 13 11:33:31 <andatche> *RC7
Nov 13 11:33:36 <Impossible> andatche: heh
Nov 13 11:33:41 <Impossible> was gonna correct you then ;)
Nov 13 11:34:08 <Foxdie> I thought the UK was on RC19
Nov 13 11:34:13 <Foxdie> thats the vibe I get from AC
Nov 13 11:34:16 <Impossible> how many UK g1 users are here atm
Nov 13 11:34:22 <andatche> nah, UK has a different branch
Nov 13 11:34:27 <Foxdie> I'm a prospective G1 user
Nov 13 11:34:35 <andatche> RC7 is equiv to RC29 in the US
Nov 13 11:34:42 <Impossible> k
Nov 13 11:35:06 <Foxdie> would have had one by now had t-mo not being retarded, I'm a month away from my 30 day upgrade window, offered to buy out a month of my contract to renew with them, they declined
Nov 13 11:35:19 <Foxdie> which is illogical because it only puts more money in their pocket
Nov 13 11:35:41 <Impossible> Foxdie: flex40 free phone
Nov 13 11:35:56 <wi> I looking for articles about android development. I am interested what is efficient, what is not efficient, what not work properly etc. Do you know where can I find it?
Nov 13 11:36:32 <Leeds> wi: code.google.com/android
Nov 13 11:36:37 <Foxdie> Impossible, I know this, but I want to upgrade, I've already got 2 lines with them
Nov 13 11:36:41 <andatche> Impossible: combi40 for me
Nov 13 11:37:43 <Foxdie> one line running a HTC Artemis (MDA Compact 3) on FlexT35, the other on a "custom" price plan (12 quid a month for web'n'walk only) runnning... or was running.. a HTC Universal (t-mobile mda pro)
Nov 13 11:37:45 <Impossible> k
Nov 13 11:39:33 <andatche> Impossible: have you any idea what the maximum HSDPA speed it on tmo in the UK? is it still 1.8Mb anywhere outside of london?
Nov 13 11:40:04 <wi> Leeds: I know this site but I want opinions independent of google. I want more objective opinions.
Nov 13 11:40:30 <skbohra> hi I have been trying to install android emulator on fc9 box but not getting success
Nov 13 11:41:25 <skbohra> any ideas?
Nov 13 11:41:31 <Impossible> andatche. sounds about right
Nov 13 11:41:38 <Leeds> skbohra: what have you tried, and how did it fail?
Nov 13 11:41:42 <Impossible> i have downloaded tethered at 120k/s on my laptop
Nov 13 11:42:05 <skbohra> Leeds : downloaded http://android.googlecode.com/files/android-emulator-1.0_r1.tar.bz2
Nov 13 11:42:06 <Impossible> ^^ catching up with convo... was on phone
Nov 13 11:42:40 <Impossible> Foxdie: im on a staff tarriff
Nov 13 11:42:52 <Impossible> i know there upgrade scheme atm is all messedup
Nov 13 11:43:01 <Impossible> come Jan your going to get a better deal on any phone
Nov 13 11:43:11 <Leeds> skbohra: and?
Nov 13 11:43:28 <Impossible> all g2 accounts and bellow are getting a £75 upgrade charge on handsets
Nov 13 11:43:32 <Impossible> in Jan thats removed
Nov 13 11:43:36 <skbohra> running the shell script
Nov 13 11:44:00 <Impossible> your account is probs higher cos you already have half price line rental (probs to your 2x contract)
Nov 13 11:44:15 <Foxdie> you work for T-Mo?
Nov 13 11:44:31 <Foxdie> and g2?
Nov 13 11:44:32 <Leeds> skbohra: and?
Nov 13 11:44:33 <Impossible> yeah, but not in house
Nov 13 11:44:50 <Impossible> sorry, sg2.. its a level of customer.
Nov 13 11:45:00 <Leeds> Impossible: singapore?
Nov 13 11:45:01 <Foxdie> ahh, subsidised?
Nov 13 11:45:04 <Impossible> eg, the higher the customer (more revanue) the better your rating
Nov 13 11:45:06 <skbohra> Leeds: it ends up with error: Error while rebuilding the emulator. please check the sources
Nov 13 11:45:06 <skbohra> ERROR: could not build SDL library
Nov 13 11:45:10 <Impossible> Leeds: UK
Nov 13 11:45:20 <Leeds> Impossible: yes, I know...
Nov 13 11:45:20 <Foxdie> ahh yes, I remember that from when I used to work for vodafone
Nov 13 11:45:25 <Impossible> the better the level the cheaper your phone/better phone deals
Nov 13 11:45:30 <Leeds> skbohra: have you tried the binary in the SDK?
Nov 13 11:45:36 <Foxdie> "customer value", aka how much they generate for the company after line rental
Nov 13 11:45:41 <Impossible> thats the one
Nov 13 11:45:52 <Foxdie> bringing back memories here dude :)
Nov 13 11:45:56 <Impossible> have they offered you half price line rental yet on your second account?
Nov 13 11:46:04 <Foxdie> Nope
Nov 13 11:46:08 <Foxdie> well, not sure
Nov 13 11:46:09 <Impossible> it does suck, but you can understand why they do it
Nov 13 11:46:14 <Impossible> its worth a call to them
Nov 13 11:46:17 <skbohra> Leeds: no
Nov 13 11:46:29 <Foxdie> I'm paying 12 quid a month for the second sim, web'n'walk only
Nov 13 11:46:31 <Impossible> give them the whole "i like tmo...but im thinking of changing to 3"
Nov 13 11:46:37 <Impossible> yeah, but thats not with voice
Nov 13 11:46:41 <Foxdie> was really just for data + receiving sms's / calls
Nov 13 11:46:45 <Leeds> skbohra: do that :-)
Nov 13 11:46:58 <Impossible> they will offer you half price line rental on a flex package eg... flex 30 for £15 a month
Nov 13 11:47:13 <Impossible> if you get offered that then your on the right account level
Nov 13 11:47:16 <skbohra> Leeds: any link?
Nov 13 11:47:30 <Impossible> i got my g1 for taking out a new contract on flex40
Nov 13 11:47:41 <Foxdie> even though the other number on the account is only £12 a month and generating them nil after RC (recurring costs, aka line rental)
Nov 13 11:47:43 <andatche> yeah, took a new contract out for my G1 too
Nov 13 11:47:43 <Impossible> they wanted £105 to upgrade my old flex35 =(
Nov 13 11:47:44 <Foxdie> ?
Nov 13 11:47:49 <Leeds> skbohra: http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=android+sdk
Nov 13 11:48:10 <Foxdie> greedy gits they are, thought they were better than vodafone until they refused to let me buy out my contract so I could get a G1
Nov 13 11:48:11 <skbohra> Leeds: I downloaded sdk
Nov 13 11:48:19 <Impossible> im out of my contract on my flex35 by 5 months
Nov 13 11:48:25 <skbohra> Leeds: that is  a .jar file
Nov 13 11:48:31 <Leeds> skbohra: er, what?
Nov 13 11:48:36 <Impossible> oh, i rate tmobile better than i did orange
Nov 13 11:48:48 <Impossible> and i was still with orange for 14 months when i joined tmo
Nov 13 11:48:49 <Leeds> skbohra: look again
Nov 13 11:49:19 <Impossible> Foxdie, can you catch them on taking out a new contract and then canceling your oldest one?
Nov 13 11:49:28 <Impossible> pac out your number and back in?
Nov 13 11:49:50 <Impossible> eg, give them the middle finger
Nov 13 11:50:47 <skbohra> Leeds: I downloaded sdk
Nov 13 11:51:23 <andatche> yeah, I still have 5 months left on an orange contract
Nov 13 11:51:31 <andatche> but it is hardly useable at home
Nov 13 11:51:35 <andatche> and costs a fortune
Nov 13 11:51:43 <Leeds> no you didn't - not if you think it's a .jar file
Nov 13 11:52:54 <skbohra> Leeds: Failed to load Main-Class manifest attribute from
Nov 13 11:52:54 <skbohra> android.jar
Nov 13 11:53:32 <Leeds> why are you trying to run android.jar?  I asked if you'd tried the emulator included in the SDK
Nov 13 11:53:38 <Leeds> frankly, go RTFM :-)
Nov 13 11:53:52 <Impossible> I got the g1 on a whim was goig to send it back after 7 days
Nov 13 11:54:04 <Impossible> wanted a raphiel
Nov 13 11:54:10 <Impossible> but tmo aint got them yet
Nov 13 11:54:45 <andatche> I'm quite pleased with the G1, aside from the obv complaints we've heard a thousand times
Nov 13 11:55:18 <Foxdie> orange... I hate them
Nov 13 11:55:22 <Foxdie> left me with a bad credit rating because I migrated across and forgot I owed them for the last month of the contract, I paid it 1 month after they notified me, and they left me with a black mark
Nov 13 11:55:24 <skbohra> Leeds: to install sdk
Nov 13 11:55:29 <Foxdie> I only joined them back in the days where 0800 numbers were free, got a 6210 to tether to my laptop and dial the original BT internet 0800 dialup accounts
Nov 13 11:55:32 <Foxdie> this was quite a few years ago naturally
Nov 13 11:55:42 <Impossible> i have one big problem with mine atm
Nov 13 11:55:46 <Impossible> creacking screen
Nov 13 11:55:49 <Leeds> skbohra: you may have just said something while we were split... anyway... I suggested you go RTFM
Nov 13 11:56:00 <Impossible> back in a min, on phone
Nov 13 11:56:02 <Impossible> afk
Nov 13 11:56:13 <skbohra> RTFM?
Nov 13 11:56:41 <Leeds> I did say it with a smile, if that helps
Nov 13 11:57:37 <Leeds> do you know what RTFM means?
Nov 13 11:58:25 <skbohra> ya
Nov 13 11:58:38 * Foxdie chuckles
Nov 13 11:58:53 <Impossible> Foxdie: exactly the same for me. loved there everyday 20 and 0800's
Nov 13 11:58:58 <Foxdie> Impossible, know your on the phone, when you get back, what was the last line you saw from me dude... ahh that answers it
Nov 13 11:59:03 <Foxdie> exactly :D
Nov 13 11:59:19 <Impossible> heh
Nov 13 11:59:32 <Foxdie> I thought I was so cool back then
Nov 13 11:59:41 <Impossible> orange were great
Nov 13 11:59:42 <Foxdie> "hah! mobile internet, IRC at work muahaha"
Nov 13 11:59:45 <Impossible> they couldnt be touched
Nov 13 11:59:48 <Foxdie> back then, yes
Nov 13 11:59:49 <Leeds> skbohra: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html
Nov 13 11:59:53 <Leeds> that's TFM
Nov 13 11:59:57 <Foxdie> then GPRS came along and pissed on their parade
Nov 13 12:00:14 <andatche> Impossible: I don't seem to have the creaking screen problem, or any of the other problems
Nov 13 12:00:15 <Impossible> oh, thats why i left.. no competitive data plans
Nov 13 12:00:22 <Foxdie> exactly, still the same today
Nov 13 12:00:22 <andatche> I have one stuck pixel but it's hardly noticable
Nov 13 12:00:52 <Impossible> andatche, it may just been mine. if i press my screen above the "back" button when close it creaks =(
Nov 13 12:01:13 <andatche> I think it's quite a common complaint
Nov 13 12:01:21 <andatche> but I seem to have got a fairly solid one
Nov 13 12:01:34 <Impossible> nice 1
Nov 13 12:01:39 <Impossible> love the hinge on the scree
Nov 13 12:01:41 <andatche> the battery life seems to have steadily improved with a few charge cycles now too
Nov 13 12:01:52 <Impossible> i had to upgrade from my vario3 (hermes) cos of the hinge
Nov 13 12:02:01 <Impossible> andatche, i have noticed that too
Nov 13 12:02:12 <Impossible> put it down to it not being in my hand as much (new toy etc ;)
Nov 13 12:02:21 <andatche> usually at about 50-60% when I get home from work with moderate usage all day
Nov 13 12:02:35 <andatche> for ~12 hours
Nov 13 12:03:08 <Impossible> i know battery use/remaining is still hard to accurately work out... but i would love a percent instead of guesing on a image
Nov 13 12:03:28 <Impossible> its little things like that, that make me feel that its a bit rushed
Nov 13 12:03:33 <Leeds> arse, got JRE installed, not JDK
Nov 13 12:03:35 <Impossible> for a first gen rom, its good
Nov 13 12:03:50 <Impossible> loving how seamless bluetooth is etc compared to my WM phones
Nov 13 12:04:24 <Impossible> does anyone object to this slightly off topic convo? not floodingt he screen are we?
Nov 13 12:04:49 <Leeds> what's off-topic about it?
Nov 13 12:05:33 <andatche> Impossible: yeah, bluetooth is nice, just a shame it doesn't do file transfers or stereo bluetooth just yet
Nov 13 12:05:37 <Foxdie> we're still talking about android, one way or another :)
Nov 13 12:05:48 <Impossible> its a bit more G1 than android :)
Nov 13 12:05:59 <Foxdie> yeah, A2DP is a defining factor in my prospective purchase too
Nov 13 12:06:13 <Foxdie> didn't spend a load of money on a A2DP-supporting car stereo for nothing :)
Nov 13 12:06:15 <Impossible> andatche, i could see why people miss that... i have a pair of a2dp headphones but havent used them for a while
Nov 13 12:06:24 <Impossible> Foxdie, i looked at that
Nov 13 12:06:29 <andatche> Impossible: yeah, especially as there is no 3.5mm jack
Nov 13 12:06:35 <Foxdie> andatche, exactly
Nov 13 12:06:50 <andatche> though from what I've read, support is due early next year
Nov 13 12:06:54 <Impossible> but the only real one i could find was Parrot...and they pi**ed me aobut with my handsfree to stop me buying again
Nov 13 12:06:55 <Foxdie> I bought an adapter a while ago for my HTC artemis, but its a fiddle
Nov 13 12:07:01 <Leeds> I normally live with a2dp running whenever I'm out and about
Nov 13 12:07:07 <Foxdie> putting pda in car cradle, attaching loads of cable
Nov 13 12:07:35 <Foxdie> haven't used any parrot kit yet, you recommend steering clear?
Nov 13 12:07:39 <Impossible> i used to stream via orb on my ppc to my phone when walking the dog and use A2dp then
Nov 13 12:07:45 <Impossible> worked well in my 3g area
Nov 13 12:07:49 <Impossible> ermm
Nov 13 12:07:53 <Impossible> Foxdie, its good kit
Nov 13 12:07:56 <Impossible> well built
Nov 13 12:08:05 <Impossible> just seam supports a bit... ermm,slow
Nov 13 12:08:16 <Impossible> there HW is very good. good implimenttation
Nov 13 12:08:25 <Impossible> but i had big troubles with my WM device
Nov 13 12:08:36 <Impossible> may be WM's stack
Nov 13 12:08:44 <Impossible> as it did get better with diff roms
Nov 13 12:08:48 <Foxdie> WM's stack is a bit of pants
Nov 13 12:09:02 <Foxdie> the one thing I do tend to like however is its not all that difficult to beam cabs over from a mac
Nov 13 12:09:05 <Impossible> but silly little bugs with the parrot that happend with my nokia too happend with my wm device
Nov 13 12:09:18 <Foxdie> sure it bitches that it "doesn't accept files of this type" but you can choose "send anyway"
Nov 13 12:09:35 <Impossible> cabs as in new installs (apps)?
Nov 13 12:10:57 <Impossible> the most painful thing about my G1 experience is exchange sync... it sounds like a broken record but i really miss simple things like the contact sync.
Nov 13 12:11:14 <Impossible> i can live without push mail. but its THE reason i started out on wm phones
Nov 13 12:11:29 <Impossible> oh, and turn based gps navigation
Nov 13 12:11:39 <Impossible> but appart from that, im liking the new OS
Nov 13 12:12:00 <Impossible> obiously its missing some things...but thats where the community apps will thrive
Nov 13 12:12:03 <Foxdie> yep, new apps
Nov 13 12:12:14 <Impossible> the dialer is appauling imo
Nov 13 12:12:28 <Foxdie> yeah, I use my artemis for satnav occasionaly
Nov 13 12:12:45 <Impossible> but looking back to wm2003 theres been one hell of alot of improvement to WM over a long time, im sure the G1 will match it in half the time
Nov 13 12:13:04 <Impossible> Foxdie, i havent used activesync for years... Cabs are the way to go!
Nov 13 12:13:34 <Foxdie> exactly :)
Nov 13 12:13:39 <Impossible> it gets kinky when you start editing the cabs tho. adding in your registration codes etc
Nov 13 12:13:59 <Impossible> so if you hard reset you can install an app and not worry about reemebering the reg details
Nov 13 12:14:09 <Leeds> my 'dream' is that Android manages to get the spirit of the Palm platform of a few years ago... even better if Palm give up on their vapourware Linux platform and use Android
Nov 13 12:14:16 <Foxdie> there's a couple of stubborn apps that require activesync, to install, so I connect up my pda, and let it install, but before it finishes the install I copy out the cab file from the temporary directory and keep them in a seperate folder on the SD card
Nov 13 12:14:22 <Foxdie> just incase I want to send them to anyone else :)
Nov 13 12:14:34 <Foxdie> "kinky", oh you're so perverse :)
Nov 13 12:14:39 <Impossible> Leeds...thats why i have kept the phone. Its going to be a breath of freshair IMO
Nov 13 12:15:05 <Foxdie> "I found myself quite aroused as I modified SKtools to automatically register itself after the cab was installed" ;)
Nov 13 12:15:07 <Impossible> Foxdie, finding the cabs with installers like that can be a pain
Nov 13 12:15:18 <Impossible> lol
Nov 13 12:15:26 <Foxdie> I have a messed up sense of humour, sorry :)
Nov 13 12:16:05 <Impossible> do many people use the side desktops?
Nov 13 12:16:10 <Impossible> eg, left and right slide
Nov 13 12:16:32 <andatche> yeah
Nov 13 12:16:48 <andatche> I have my centre one for dialing, left for organisation stuff and the right one for web apps etc
Nov 13 12:17:05 <Impossible> dialing as in contacts?
Nov 13 12:18:00 <andatche> well, contacts, dialer, sms and email
Nov 13 12:18:08 <andatche> the everyday "phone" stuff
Nov 13 12:18:15 <Impossible> sorry for asking...
Nov 13 12:18:25 <Impossible> i was just keen on finding out how people use them
Nov 13 12:18:35 <Impossible> cos i find dialing contacts still clunky
Nov 13 12:18:41 <andatche> nah, no problem
Nov 13 12:18:50 <Impossible> eg, scrolling to a contact in "contacts"
Nov 13 12:18:54 <Impossible> then clicking the contact
Nov 13 12:18:58 <Impossible> then choosing what number
Nov 13 12:19:16 <Impossible> i have tried "spelldial" on the market
Nov 13 12:19:35 <Impossible> where you type out your contacts name on the dial pad (bit like t9)
Nov 13 12:19:42 <Impossible> it works...almost ;)
Nov 13 12:20:17 <andatche> heh :)
Nov 13 12:20:52 <Foxdie> I have that on my winmo artemis, very useful
Nov 13 12:21:08 <Foxdie> if thats on the G1, bonus
Nov 13 12:21:15 <andatche> I think my two fav apps so far have to be connectbot and the last.fm player
Nov 13 12:21:24 <Foxdie> connectbot being?
Nov 13 12:21:31 <Foxdie> and last.fm player... streaming media is something I"d love
Nov 13 12:21:32 <Leeds> ssh client
Nov 13 12:21:37 <Foxdie> awesome :)
Nov 13 12:21:44 <Foxdie> that'd help me with work
Nov 13 12:21:59 <Leeds> andatche: you mean the last.fm player in the market?
Nov 13 12:22:25 <Foxdie> its my dream to have a mobile device with all of the following; 3G / Wifi / bluetooth a2dp / ssh client / streaming media client
Nov 13 12:22:33 <Neverender> the last.fm player is ok
Nov 13 12:22:36 <Neverender> needs some work
Nov 13 12:22:46 <Leeds> be nice if/when there's an official one
Nov 13 12:22:51 <Foxdie> I wonder if the vlc team are working on an android port
Nov 13 12:22:54 <Neverender> i like the imeem app better
Nov 13 12:22:57 <Foxdie> will ask them now, one sec
Nov 13 12:22:59 <andatche> Leeds: yeah, the one in the market
Nov 13 12:23:00 <Neverender> if not the imeem service
Nov 13 12:23:05 <Leeds> I already use last.fm though
Nov 13 12:23:09 <Neverender> me too
Nov 13 12:23:21 <andatche> yeah, ssh is handy for work, being a sysadmin for a living and whatnot :)
Nov 13 12:24:09 <andatche> nice not to have to rush to the nearest computer when I get a call that only needs something fixing quickly
Nov 13 12:24:19 <Neverender> an official last.fm app would be awesome
Nov 13 12:24:55 <Foxdie> andatche, snap :)
Nov 13 12:25:07 <Impossible> even tho i have 2 debian boxes ssh has never really been a "important" app to me
Nov 13 12:25:27 <Foxdie> used to do it on my Uni before it broke, the artemis is only gprs and with no physical keyboard ssh-based administration is a pain
Nov 13 12:25:38 <Foxdie> another reason I eyed up the G1, built in keyboard
Nov 13 12:25:44 <blau> keyboard rocks
Nov 13 12:25:45 <blau> 40wpm!
Nov 13 12:26:02 <andatche> ah, I only use BSD/Linux/Solaris in my everday computing
Nov 13 12:26:09 <Impossible> Foxdie, i couldnt go back to a non HW keyboard phone nower days
Nov 13 12:26:10 <andatche> rare I come into contact with windows much anymore
Nov 13 12:26:20 <Impossible> hated them before my hermes tho!
Nov 13 12:26:32 <Leeds> what's windows?
Nov 13 12:26:37 <Impossible> lucky you andatche
Nov 13 12:26:37 <blau> hard keyboards are the shizzazle
Nov 13 12:26:46 <Impossible> i find the g1 keyboard too thin
Nov 13 12:26:46 <blau> andatche: what do you do for a living
Nov 13 12:26:55 <Impossible> still growing to it
Nov 13 12:27:11 <andatche> blau: about a 50/50 mix of develoment and system administration
Nov 13 12:27:21 <andatche> mostly on solaris and the odd bsd or linux box
Nov 13 12:27:25 * Neverender is enjoying g1 support in the new banshee
Nov 13 12:27:49 <Foxdie> I have to use centos linux, macs (10.4 and 10.5), windows machines.. varying selection
Nov 13 12:28:02 <Foxdie> VNC and RDP clients would be handy if they exist for android
Nov 13 12:28:16 <Impossible> my eee in work is my main pc now ;)
Nov 13 12:28:20 <andatche> most of the linux boxes we have at work are centos, slowly moveing them over to debian though
Nov 13 12:28:23 <andatche> <3 debian
Nov 13 12:28:32 <Leeds> Neverender: g1 in banshee?
Nov 13 12:28:41 <andatche> aiming to eventually move to opensolaris on the sparc hardware too
Nov 13 12:29:10 <Impossible> would kill for a irc client for my g1
Nov 13 12:29:21 <Neverender> Leeds: yeah..
Nov 13 12:29:24 <Impossible> but i suppose your hardcore ssh lads just term into a box and bounce?
Nov 13 12:29:29 <andatche> yup
Nov 13 12:29:42 <andatche> irc isn't ideally suited to the phone sleeping all the time either
Nov 13 12:29:54 <andatche> answering pings every few seconds would soon kill the battery
Nov 13 12:30:04 <Neverender> http://banshee-project.org/
Nov 13 12:30:15 <andatche> would have to use some sort of bouncer for it to be practical
Nov 13 12:30:16 <blau> a customzied ajax irc client would work i think
Nov 13 12:30:16 <Foxdie> hmm, VLC staff say there's no port in progress for the G1 as there's no C-based software SDK for android
Nov 13 12:30:38 <Foxdie> Impossible, bitchx all the way ;)
Nov 13 12:30:45 <andatche> irssi :P
Nov 13 12:30:56 <Foxdie> I was gonna say that andatche
Nov 13 12:30:57 <andatche> I find bitchx quite obnoxious
Nov 13 12:31:03 <Foxdie> however, bitchx is ... exactly
Nov 13 12:31:06 <Foxdie> its a "challenge"
Nov 13 12:31:13 <Foxdie> a stubborn wench
Nov 13 12:31:54 <languish> if vlc won't do it, maybe coreplayer?
Nov 13 12:32:03 <languish> or whatever they're calling themselves these days
Nov 13 12:33:04 <Leeds> screw them
Nov 13 12:33:17 <blau> any suggestions for someone looking for a job at google ny?
Nov 13 12:33:25 <Impossible> languish, i woudlnt bet on core
Nov 13 12:33:32 <Impossible> they went arsy with the WM port
Nov 13 12:33:55 <languish> :?
Nov 13 12:33:58 <andatche> blau: go get an honours degree in CS
Nov 13 12:34:00 <andatche> :)
Nov 13 12:34:20 <andatche> a couple of lads who were on my course at uni now work for google in ireland
Nov 13 12:34:28 <languish> blau, can you push a broom?
Nov 13 12:34:33 <andatche> they had to go through 10s of interviews to get the job though
Nov 13 12:34:38 <languish> perhaps work a powerbuffer?
Nov 13 12:35:06 <blau> i can bush a broom
Nov 13 12:35:14 <blau> powerbuffer id need training, do they provide that?
Nov 13 12:35:28 <blau> then i can work my way up from a broom pusher and blog about it
Nov 13 12:35:28 <Impossible> heh
Nov 13 12:35:34 <blau> then publish my blogs as a book
Nov 13 12:38:29 <blau> sounds like a plan
Nov 13 12:39:45 <Impossible> sounds like you wanna be carry bradshaw?
Nov 13 12:39:48 <Impossible> ;)
Nov 13 12:39:54 <blau> lol
Nov 13 12:40:00 <blau> goog and the city!
Nov 13 12:41:46 <Foxdie> oh god :)
Nov 13 12:42:33 <mib_7poz3m> android IRC application
Nov 13 12:42:43 <blau> michaelnovakjr is working on an android irc app
Nov 13 12:43:51 <blau> any suggestions for best type of people to provide as references when applying to google?
Nov 13 12:44:08 <kIDDAI> have ever been to conferences?
Nov 13 12:44:13 <Leeds> people who work at google?
Nov 13 12:44:19 <thatha> blau: your name showing up when you google it :)
Nov 13 12:44:27 <thatha> well, with some useful content :p
Nov 13 12:44:32 <kIDDAI> i always meet google recruiters at conference with "mobile computing topic"
Nov 13 12:45:04 <kIDDAI> blau: where are you from?
Nov 13 12:45:15 <Leeds> blau: if you want a serious suggestion: get known in the Android world
Nov 13 12:45:25 <blau> im from new jersey
Nov 13 12:45:26 <blau> usa
Nov 13 12:45:27 <kIDDAI> i guess i have some business cards from google here
Nov 13 12:45:36 <kIDDAI> ahh ok, its only google germany
Nov 13 12:45:56 <blau> Leeds: app developer or contributor to actual android?
Nov 13 12:46:09 <Leeds> both, if possible
Nov 13 12:46:18 <blau> thanks
Nov 13 12:46:18 <Impossible> mib_7poz3m: via web?
Nov 13 12:47:15 <kIDDAI> this is not really necessary, you only have to prove knowledge in the field of mobile computing
Nov 13 12:47:25 <Impossible> lol, yeah andatche... dont get caught on experts exchange asking for advice on how to get a job with google.....when googled ;)
Nov 13 12:47:27 <kIDDAI> especially A LOT OF programming experience
Nov 13 12:49:57 <blau> i definately feel that i have the programming experience
Nov 13 12:50:15 <blau> just not sure how to seperate myself form any of the other people aplpying for jobs
Nov 13 12:50:44 <kIDDAI> i guess there is no real need for this
Nov 13 12:50:45 <blau> all of my past 'real' jobs I've known people who pushed to get me hired
Nov 13 12:50:48 <kIDDAI> if your cv is right
Nov 13 12:50:58 <kIDDAI> they will start some kind of testing process with you
Nov 13 12:51:20 <kIDDAI> if you pass all tests, you're in
Nov 13 12:51:48 <Foxdie> one of their tests is to assassinate low ranking employees from yahoo
Nov 13 12:51:53 <Foxdie> killing them slowly from within
Nov 13 12:51:57 <blau> lol
Nov 13 12:52:14 <Foxdie> You think I'm joking?
Nov 13 12:52:15 <andatche> getting a job at google isn't easy
Nov 13 12:52:21 <Foxdie> I am ^_^
Nov 13 12:52:33 <kIDDAI> thats true
Nov 13 12:52:39 <kIDDAI> but nonetheless
Nov 13 12:52:41 <kIDDAI> they hiring
Nov 13 12:52:46 <andatche> the chap I know who works there went though something in the reigon of 20 interviews before getting the job
Nov 13 12:52:47 <kIDDAI> and searching people right now
Nov 13 12:52:52 <kIDDAI> world-wide!
Nov 13 12:52:54 <thatha> err, yahoo employees might not appreciate the ... hatred ;p
Nov 13 12:53:00 <thatha> just sayin'
Nov 13 12:53:21 <blau> andatche: 20 interviews over a day or 2 or like spread out?
Nov 13 12:53:29 <Foxdie> 20 interviews?jeez
Nov 13 12:53:34 <Foxdie> I had 2 for my current job
Nov 13 12:53:36 <andatche> spread out over a couple of months
Nov 13 12:53:43 <kIDDAI> it should be 5 telephone interviews
Nov 13 12:53:50 <Foxdie> one telephone, one facial
Nov 13 12:53:51 <kIDDAI> and some addtional
Nov 13 12:54:16 <andatche> yeah, there were a number of telephone interviews, then a trip to the US for an interview, then further interviews in ireland iirc
Nov 13 12:54:17 <kIDDAI> each about 90 minutes
Nov 13 12:54:18 <Foxdie> granted, my company is only a small one at less than 20 heads
Nov 13 12:54:37 <Foxdie> did google pay the flights?
Nov 13 12:54:45 <kIDDAI> they should
Nov 13 12:54:49 <blau> ive had a single one on one interview but i was already an intern at the company just trying to get hired full time, and then i had a one on like 15 interview for my other job
Nov 13 12:54:49 <andatche> I don't know, I would guess so
Nov 13 12:55:22 <kIDDAI> it wouldnt make sense to pay it yourself
Nov 13 12:55:24 <blau> i liked the committee'ish interview most
Nov 13 12:55:25 <kIDDAI> :)
Nov 13 12:55:58 <Impossible> i know google do give multiple inverviews
Nov 13 12:56:16 <blau> yeah ive heard that
Nov 13 12:56:19 <Impossible> they ask random questions based on maths too
Nov 13 12:56:23 <blau> several times
Nov 13 12:56:34 <Impossible> which are probs unanswerable but just look at your problem solving
Nov 13 12:56:39 <andatche> yeah, I think you need a decent understanding of the formal aspects of CS to get a job there
Nov 13 12:56:44 <andatche> just being a hacker doesn't suffice
Nov 13 12:56:54 <blau> i have 2 degrees in software engineering
Nov 13 12:57:28 <kIDDAI> at google the employees decide whom to hire, thats why you have such a long testing process
Nov 13 12:57:57 <kIDDAI> it takes at least 2-3 months
Nov 13 12:58:15 <blau> do you get to meet your potential team during the hiring process?
Nov 13 12:58:22 <andatche> kIDDAI: sounds like you're speaking from experience, you know someone who works there?
Nov 13 12:58:27 <blau> that would be awesome
Nov 13 12:58:34 <kIDDAI> i met several recruiters
Nov 13 12:58:45 <kIDDAI> im trying to convince my brother to apply :)
Nov 13 13:01:04 <Impossible> does anyone use the googleIM here on there g1?
Nov 13 13:01:22 <andatche> I do
Nov 13 13:01:22 <blau> anyone contribute to android yet?
Nov 13 13:03:12 <Impossible> are you in the uk andatche?
Nov 13 13:03:27 <Impossible> cos i cant sign in
Nov 13 13:03:43 <Impossible> and i think its cos i have renamed the certs for auto updates
Nov 13 13:03:51 <Foxdie> i've found t-mo blocks IM's
Nov 13 13:03:52 <andatche> yeah, I'm in the UK
Nov 13 13:03:55 <andatche> sings in and works fine
Nov 13 13:03:58 <andatche> *signs
Nov 13 13:04:02 <Impossible> fawk
Nov 13 13:04:09 <Impossible> will try after renaming them back
Nov 13 13:04:16 <andatche> hang on, will test it now, make sure it isn't just down
Nov 13 13:04:21 <Foxdie> for example, IM+ on a winmo on t-mo gets blocked
Nov 13 13:04:24 <Foxdie> and skype too
Nov 13 13:04:40 <Foxdie> but if I say, tunnel to a remote server and use the remote server as a gateway, it works fine
Nov 13 13:04:56 <andatche> Impossible: doesn't seem to be signing it right now, might just be down?
Nov 13 13:05:07 <andatche> was working fine earlier though
Nov 13 13:05:25 <andatche> yup, can't get in atm :(
Nov 13 13:06:53 <Foxdie> wouldn't put it past t-mo to block GIM too
Nov 13 13:07:16 <Foxdie> is there a PPTP tunneling app available for the G1 yet?
Nov 13 13:07:42 <Impossible> thanks for checking
Nov 13 13:08:00 <Impossible> Foxdie, they do block 6667 on there normal wnw
Nov 13 13:08:07 <Impossible> altho GIM works
Nov 13 13:08:22 <Impossible> 6668 works tho ;)
Nov 13 13:08:45 <blau> 6667 from my g1 worked
Nov 13 13:09:05 <andatche> I have WnW plus on my contract for the G1, as far as I am aware, everyone in the UK does
Nov 13 13:09:07 <Foxdie> what cunts
Nov 13 13:09:13 <Foxdie> its not like IRC uses much bandwidth
Nov 13 13:09:13 <andatche> it is pretty much unrestricted and unlimited
Nov 13 13:09:46 <Foxdie> ahh, I'm on the basic (1GB) web'n'walk
Nov 13 13:11:31 <blau> anyone have an idea about how ui "improvements" are approved
Nov 13 13:12:53 <andatche> Impossible: seems like gtalk might be having problems here, that or tmo have recently blocked it :(
Nov 13 13:12:56 <andatche> which would suck
Nov 13 13:13:20 <Foxdie> I really wouldn't put it past them, sorry for sounding so pessimistic
Nov 13 13:13:38 <andatche> I don't know why they'd do it now though, been working fine up to now
Nov 13 13:13:40 <Foxdie> but after hearing they block 6667 and msn, really wouldn't
Nov 13 13:13:49 <ali1234> it's blocked on wnw standard, has been ever since they started filtering all im clients
Nov 13 13:14:20 <ali1234> on wnw plus however, it shouldn't be, unless they changed the tos again
Nov 13 13:14:38 <Foxdie> maybe its a cock up then
Nov 13 13:14:48 <blount> I've given 180+ interviews @google
Nov 13 13:14:57 <blount> being "known" counts for very little :-)
Nov 13 13:14:59 <Foxdie> maybe they meant to block it for standard, but accidentally applied it to plus
Nov 13 13:15:32 <ali1234> i would have thought somebody would notice by now, since the standard has been filtered this way for about 2 years now
Nov 13 13:15:33 <blount> knowing your CS, and being able to analyze a problem and code it on the whiteboard counts for a lot
Nov 13 13:15:54 <andatche> would seem a bit silly to sell a phone with im capabilities then not let you use them :/
Nov 13 13:16:02 <andatche> I'll be annoyed if they have blocked it
Nov 13 13:16:05 <andatche> I use it quite a bit
Nov 13 13:16:31 <ali1234> well yeah you'd think that. but that's exactly what they did with my phone. sold with MSN included. 1 year later they decide to start filtering all IM clients
Nov 13 13:16:38 <blau> blount: thanks for the tips
Nov 13 13:16:48 <Foxdie> blount, nice insight
Nov 13 13:16:53 <blount> np
Nov 13 13:17:13 <Foxdie> makes sense, tests to see if you know functions / procedures and formatting like the back of your hand
Nov 13 13:18:32 <blau> blount: what helps to get someone get selected for an interview?
Nov 13 13:19:08 <blau> i think i read somewhere that they get 1500 resumes a day, so just having degrees probably doesnt cut it
Nov 13 13:20:21 <blount> blau: imho, that's the only part of the process where your resume is critical.  also, if there is a googler who knows you (or better, knows your work) ask them to put your resume in for you.  their rec will help get the interview
Nov 13 13:20:27 <blount> after that you're on your own :-)
Nov 13 13:22:35 <blau> cool
Nov 13 13:23:10 <blau> the guy who makes anycut is a googler right?
Nov 13 13:23:39 <jbq> yes
Nov 13 13:23:40 * Foxdie wish he was smart enough to work at google
Nov 13 13:24:37 <blau> he seems nice too, answered a question when i asked it about the install shortcut permission
Nov 13 13:26:40 <jbq> Yes, he's a very nice guy, very pleasant to work with.
Nov 13 13:27:22 <jbq> he's also one of the top guys on the overall android project.
Nov 13 13:27:29 <blau> oh wow
Nov 13 13:32:03 <blau> i wish there was a way to query an activity to see what aparameters it wants
Nov 13 13:32:23 <kRutOn> I miss introspection
Nov 13 13:34:11 <blau> what do you guys think about the edittext views in the datepicker to auto select all on focus?
Nov 13 13:34:42 <blau> i feel like the way it is now is killing usability fo that view
Nov 13 13:35:27 <zewm_> How do I get friends?
Nov 13 13:35:55 <andatche> in general? :/
Nov 13 13:35:58 <zewm_> Yea
Nov 13 13:36:04 <kRutOn> zewm_: You interview with them
Nov 13 13:36:05 <blau> crap, i just realised that my computer with the android source is getting repaired :(
Nov 13 13:36:10 <zewm_> kRutOn: Nice.
Nov 13 13:36:23 <zewm_> Yea, I do want them to have certain criteria to meet
Nov 13 13:36:48 <zewm_> If they are female they need to be ugly and have low self esteem, body weight optional.
Nov 13 13:37:42 <languish> body weight optional. so.. in space?
Nov 13 13:37:52 <zewm_> well like fat or skinny doesn't matter
Nov 13 13:38:01 <zewm_> I need to rephrase it I guess :\
Nov 13 13:38:56 <andatche> lol
Nov 13 13:41:14 <zewm_> Here is the problem
Nov 13 13:41:23 <zewm_> Fat chicks are more expensive to get drunk
Nov 13 13:41:57 <zewm_> but they have less self esteem than a skinny chick
Nov 13 13:42:34 <languish> Your inexperience is showing.
Nov 13 13:42:44 <zewm_> :\
Nov 13 13:42:54 <zewm_> explain
Nov 13 13:43:31 <languish> Weight often only plays a partial role in how quickly someone "gets drunk" or reaches their personal tolerance level.
Nov 13 13:43:41 <blau> yeah
Nov 13 13:43:43 <zewm_> hrmmm
Nov 13 13:43:48 <zewm_> I disagree
Nov 13 13:44:27 <languish> That's your perogative, but again, you would be showing your inexperience, and lack of knowledge in this area.
Nov 13 13:44:46 <blau> languish has a phd in drinking
Nov 13 13:44:48 <zewm_> You obviously haven't pounded back drinks with a fat chick before :\
Nov 13 13:45:10 <zewm_> Let me rephrase
Nov 13 13:45:18 <languish> I have, I just wasn't attempting to pick them up. Literally or figuratively.
Nov 13 13:45:29 <zewm_> You obviously haven't pounded back drinks with the same... plump.. women I have :\
Nov 13 13:45:41 <zewm_> haha, literally. nice
Nov 13 13:45:48 <umdk1d3> gah why is there a GET_CONTENT for vnd.android.cursor.item/phone but not for /email    :/
Nov 13 13:46:07 <languish> However, I've found that many were equally inebriated due to how quickly or slowly they process their alchohol, and what mitigating conditions may affect said processing. Such as diabeties.
Nov 13 13:46:41 <zewm_> hrmm
Nov 13 13:46:55 <zewm_> interesting
Nov 13 13:47:11 <languish> It also helped to have worked as a bartender.
Nov 13 13:47:42 <zewm_> all I know is when I go out to the bar with a fat girl it takes WAY more drinks to get her there
Nov 13 13:47:55 <zewm_> when I go with a .. smaller.. woman, it's usually faster
Nov 13 13:47:56 <languish> For her, or you?
Nov 13 13:47:58 <languish> :/
Nov 13 13:48:07 <blau> lol
Nov 13 13:48:09 <blau> sigh
Nov 13 13:48:14 * languish is done.
Nov 13 13:48:17 <zewm_> well I drink way too much so I have a higher tolerance
Nov 13 13:48:28 <zewm_> :\
Nov 13 13:48:37 <languish> ops may now remove the offensive troll at their leisure
Nov 13 13:48:41 <zewm_> or maybe I just need to start drinking better alcohol?
Nov 13 13:48:55 <zewm_> oh boo
Nov 13 13:49:02 <zewm_> I'm just trying to have a polite conversation :)
Nov 13 13:49:18 <Foxdie> what troll?
Nov 13 13:49:21 <andatche> though not very android realted :)
Nov 13 13:49:21 <languish> Don't worry, they likely won't. We'll all just /ignore.
Nov 13 13:49:32 <Foxdie> oh, zewm_
Nov 13 13:49:34 <zewm_> well not much chatting going on
Nov 13 13:49:48 <blau> ok illl talk development then
Nov 13 13:49:51 <blau> im setting up a scheduler
Nov 13 13:49:52 <zewm_> just trying to get get some action going in this chan :)
Nov 13 13:50:07 <blau> and I need to have the user define when to run someting
Nov 13 13:50:29 <blau> my plan was to do have a start date, then an edit text for Every # Periods, and a spinner for the period
Nov 13 13:50:34 <languish> blau, is your app an actual scheduler, at or chron?
Nov 13 13:50:39 <languish> or just a function of your app?
Nov 13 13:50:51 <blau> function of my app, its to schedule financial transactions
Nov 13 13:51:22 <languish> nod
Nov 13 13:51:24 <blau> so the user can enter somethign like every 5 days or every 1 month
Nov 13 13:51:37 <blau> but i dont know the best way to label the every # periods edittext
Nov 13 13:51:43 <blau> or even the spinner
Nov 13 13:52:15 <blau> want it to have as little text as possible, since i feel too much text on the screen describing a field is wasteful and ugly
Nov 13 13:53:20 <blau> maybe something like How Often:<the edit text box> [spinner with month or day]
Nov 13 13:56:06 <blau> that got you guys to shut up :P
Nov 13 13:56:27 <languish> heck, it even got zewm to leave :)
Nov 13 13:57:31 <blau> lol
Nov 13 13:57:50 <blau> i think that stupid arrow on spinners is too big
Nov 13 13:58:17 <blau> and theres needs to be a way to jump to a later item in a spinner
Nov 13 13:58:45 <languish> hold and scroll?
Nov 13 13:58:55 <languish> or programatically?
Nov 13 13:59:04 <blau> user activated
Nov 13 13:59:13 <blau> like on most computers you can start typing something
Nov 13 13:59:24 <blau> and itll jump to whatever starts with those letters
Nov 13 13:59:57 <languish> can you put an ordered list in a spinner?
Nov 13 14:00:39 <blau> my big gripe is that it sucks when your are on a website picking a country with 100s of countries listed
Nov 13 14:00:46 <blau> and you have to hold and scroll alll the way down
Nov 13 14:01:04 <languish> be nice if you could use gps for that lol
Nov 13 14:01:23 <blau> that would be a nice browser enchancement
Nov 13 14:01:36 <blau> autofill in your country based on cell service or gps
Nov 13 14:01:44 <languish> but yeah, some apps that'd be inappropriate, like language conversion.. pick you lang to/fro
Nov 13 14:01:50 <languish> you wouldn't want gps to choose for you
Nov 13 14:02:06 <languish> *your
Nov 13 14:04:47 <blau> true
Nov 13 14:04:48 <mmarker> Ok, little question bumbling in my head. Im looking to write up a little Jabber MUC capable app. little confused by threads and services in the api. Since networks suck, I think spawning a thread for a service and defining an AIDL for the backend is correct. It sounds complex, though. Am I making this harder than it needs be.
Nov 13 14:05:58 <blau> jabber is like an im protocol?
Nov 13 14:06:10 <Foxdie> have never used it before but I believe so
Nov 13 14:06:35 <blau> keeping the connection stuff in a service osunds like a plan, so the connection doesnt get killed if your app does
Nov 13 14:07:03 <blau> i have used aidl but that seems like its the right way to communicate between a service and activity
Nov 13 14:07:13 <blau> havent
Nov 13 14:08:13 <umdk1d3> hmm is there a good reason why ContactsListActivity doesnt support GET_CONTENT for vnd.android.cursor.item/email?  (or was it just not written yet?)
Nov 13 14:08:24 <umdk1d3> would it be something welcomed back into the tree if written by someone?
Nov 13 14:08:58 <blau> is that the listview activity that displays all your contacts and phone num?
Nov 13 14:09:16 <blau> yes, im too lazy to look at what i wrote the other day
Nov 13 14:10:02 <umdk1d3> yea
Nov 13 14:10:19 <languish> Gluegle needs to go drag some htc reps down to korea and hook up with these scientists and get us a better batter for the G1
Nov 13 14:10:22 <languish> Cho and his team have developed lithium batteries that are 90% more energy efficient then current batteries. That means you can do whatever it is you do eight times longer!
Nov 13 14:10:29 <blau> 			Intent intent = new Intent(Intent.ACTION_PICK, Phones.CONTENT_URI);
Nov 13 14:10:29 <blau> 			intent.putExtra(Contacts.Intents.UI.TITLE_EXTRA_KEY, "Select Phone Number to Call");
Nov 13 14:10:29 <blau> 			startActivityForResult(intent, GET_PHONE);
Nov 13 14:10:29 <blau>  im guessing i did this the long way?
Nov 13 14:10:44 <umdk1d3> blau: yep that looks right
Nov 13 14:11:40 <umdk1d3> but sadly they only support picking phone, person, or postal address
Nov 13 14:11:42 <umdk1d3> not an email
Nov 13 14:11:53 <blau> lame
Nov 13 14:12:14 <blau> i think it should support email or basically anything, im name too
Nov 13 14:12:15 <umdk1d3> it seems like everything is in place, just needs to be written into the Contacts app
Nov 13 14:12:21 <mmarker> Grrr. Stupid internet.
Nov 13 14:13:58 <blau> i cant get over how big the stupid arrow on a spinner is
Nov 13 14:14:28 <umdk1d3> blau: do you have a device in your hands?
Nov 13 14:14:39 <umdk1d3> keep in mind that bigger targets are always better
Nov 13 14:14:55 <blau> i have a device in my hands
Nov 13 14:15:02 <blau> umdk: the thing is the entire spinner is a target
Nov 13 14:15:16 <umdk1d3> oh hmm
Nov 13 14:15:19 <duncanfoo> does anyone know how to discover the current orientation?
Nov 13 14:15:33 <blau> it bothers me just as much on windows too, but at least there you have a lot of pixels to waste
Nov 13 14:20:03 <blau> the stupid arrow is akin to making scrollbars 50 pixels wide
Nov 13 14:20:38 <blau> you never actually need to touch them so they are small enough to show you that the exist and you can scroll
Nov 13 14:28:37 * jbq heads to work
Nov 13 14:38:28 <blau> using alertbuider is there a way to cancel an ok?
Nov 13 14:43:15 <KNY> blau, what would be the use case for that? "Delete file?" "OK!" "Nah, I don't trust you." ?
Nov 13 14:45:39 <blau> if you are using it to query for something and the user enters an invalid entry
Nov 13 14:46:22 <blau> maybe bad design
Nov 13 14:50:20 <kRutOn> blau: you mean disable the OK button until the input is invalid?
Nov 13 15:09:58 * Damm sighs
Nov 13 15:10:02 <blaug1> go g1
Nov 13 15:10:18 <Damm> text messages are a pain still, installed DG SMS... and rebooted, forgot to run it's little settings thing
Nov 13 15:10:31 <Damm> and I didn't get notified of my text messages until I tapped on the screen
Nov 13 15:10:38 <Damm> I guess I have to disable screen timeout.
Nov 13 15:11:08 <blaug1> damm, theres some issues with it
Nov 13 15:11:24 <blaug1> i dont know why some people it works fine some it doesnt :(
Nov 13 15:12:19 <blaug1> it works flawlessly on the emulator, something in g1 hardware is messed up imo
Nov 13 15:17:05 <Damm> blaug1, or T-Mobile.. but yeah I get late text messages, never arrive... doesn't viberate as usual
Nov 13 15:17:45 <blaug1> all it does is wake ur screen up
Nov 13 15:17:55 <Damm> or doesn't in my case
Nov 13 15:18:12 <Damm> it's a good attempt, but I blame T-Mobile
Nov 13 15:18:46 <blaug1> its basically 4 lines of code, lol
Nov 13 15:19:24 <blaug1> i suspect it ties into how the alarm doesnt work reliably
Nov 13 15:19:33 <blaug1> either
Nov 13 15:19:39 <Damm> I would guess that also.
Nov 13 15:19:46 <vol> I've noticed that all of a sudden, I don't get pinged when I get a new email
Nov 13 15:19:57 <vol> I'm pretty sure it's still set to notify me in the settings
Nov 13 15:20:05 <vol> and by "all of a sudden" I mean "for the last week or two"
Nov 13 15:20:15 <Damm> for me it's RC30
Nov 13 15:20:31 <Damm> ever since RC30, it's not been reliable.
Nov 13 15:21:02 <blaug1> ive been receiving emails fine
Nov 13 15:21:02 <vol> hmm, looks like gmail actually turned off email notifications
Nov 13 15:21:08 <vol> and by gmail I probably mean me : (
Nov 13 15:21:18 <Damm> nope
Nov 13 15:21:19 <Damm> i doubt it
Nov 13 15:21:23 <blaug1> miss some sms and i dont have dg sms installed even
Nov 13 15:21:28 <Damm> for me my text message notifications got turned off
Nov 13 15:21:36 <Damm> in the upgrade
Nov 13 15:21:46 <Damm> vibration and ringer actually was off, so i had to re-enable it
Nov 13 15:21:56 <vol> oh?
Nov 13 15:21:59 <vol> I guess it wasn't me then
Nov 13 15:22:12 <Damm> nope it wasn't you
Nov 13 15:22:18 <Disconnect> my email notification seems to run only every few hours rather than when i get emails :/
Nov 13 15:22:18 <Damm> what it was... only T-mobile may know
Nov 13 15:22:55 <Damm> honestly my Gmail is more reliable then text
Nov 13 15:22:56 <Damm> and cheaper
Nov 13 15:22:58 <KNY> if I have my.package.app, does it behave correctly if I do my.package.app.sub.package?
Nov 13 15:23:02 <Damm> I may switch Nagios to page me via Gmail
Nov 13 15:23:05 <Disconnect> s/email/gmail/ i mean
Nov 13 15:23:16 <vol> KNY: Define "it" and "do"
Nov 13 15:23:35 <KNY> vol, can I have sub-packages within my application?
Nov 13 15:23:41 <vol> I don't see why not
Nov 13 15:23:56 <blaug1> yes
Nov 13 15:24:02 <KNY> great, thanks
Nov 13 15:25:24 <Damm> try it is usually my motto
Nov 13 15:27:54 <blaug1> ugh stupid scheduling items is taking longer to implement than like everything else in my app
Nov 13 15:31:26 <umdk1d3> grr the android browser doesnt like JSON.parse from http://www.json.org/json2.js
Nov 13 15:33:30 <blaug1> hm
Nov 13 15:34:37 <unix_lappy> umdk1d3: doing a mobile web app?
Nov 13 15:35:58 <remitaylor> anyone know of any good tutorials for multiple views/activities?  the good old school notepad tutorial seems out of date ... a lot of it doesn't work for me (different Intent constructors & startActivityForResult usage and who knows what else).  i'd like to start implementing apps with multiple views
Nov 13 15:37:12 <vol> remitaylor: Create a LinearLayout and put a few few different views in it :P
Nov 13 15:37:34 <vol> Look at the source for API Demos
Nov 13 15:38:41 <remitaylor> vol: not sure what you mean.  example: i want to click a button and have it goto a different layout/activity ... i likely want to startActivityForResult.  i was using one of the official API tutorials (the notepad app) but it doesn't seem up-to-date  :/
Nov 13 15:39:17 * remitaylor looks for some more API Demos
Nov 13 15:40:59 <blaug1> blah
Nov 13 15:41:04 <cmonex> spy phone how ?
Nov 13 15:41:12 <blaug1> think anyone is making decent cash yet from selling android apps?
Nov 13 15:41:12 <cmonex> err i think i was replying to some old line
Nov 13 15:41:19 <cmonex> stupid irc client
Nov 13 15:41:38 <vol> So, on linux, I put into ~/.android/SDK-1.0/sdcard.img
Nov 13 15:41:47 <vol> shouldn't that automatically be loaded when I start the emulator?
Nov 13 15:42:05 <blaug1> oh wow people are already cracking android stuff :(
Nov 13 15:44:24 <blaug1> boo
Nov 13 15:44:38 <marcone> what's being 'cracked'?
Nov 13 15:47:21 <nikkelitous> Hello.
Nov 13 15:47:27 <remitaylor> the Notepad tutorial says to do this to get a result from another activity ... Intent i = new Intent(this, TheActivityClassToLaunchToGetTheResult.class); startActivityForResult(i, integer_to_specify_the_kind_of_activity); ... what's the up-to-date way of doing this?
Nov 13 15:51:26 <Leeds> wastrel: doesn't seem to hard to compile fbreaderj - I haven't tried running my self-built version yet though :-)
Nov 13 15:52:04 <wastrel> yeah i built, just need to tweak the build.xml
Nov 13 15:52:32 <wastrel> doesn't help my complete lack of java experience however ;]
Nov 13 15:53:04 <Leeds> my lack isn't complete, but it is old
Nov 13 15:53:17 <vol> remitaylor: that should be pretty correct, still
Nov 13 15:53:23 <vol> take a look at the javadocs for Activity
Nov 13 15:53:27 <vol> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Activity.html
Nov 13 15:53:36 <vol> skip to Starting Activities and Getting Results
Nov 13 16:00:32 <nikkelitous> So, I'm not wanting to sacrifice root access on my G1 for the update, but I'm getting annoyed at it's constant badgering.  Is there any way to make changes while still on 29 to make 30 still jailbroken?
Nov 13 16:03:09 <Leeds> yes, absolutely
Nov 13 16:03:53 <Leeds> if I could find the link with the instructions, I'd give it to you :-)
Nov 13 16:04:17 <Leeds> ah, here it is: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Nov 13 16:05:40 <nikkelitous> Thanks.
Nov 13 16:06:20 <nikkelitous> Also, has anyone successfully "tricked" the G1 into using the SD card for app storage?
Nov 13 16:08:34 <bmunger__> sym link?
Nov 13 16:08:49 <unix_lappy> the iPhone uses flash storage for all its apps no?
Nov 13 16:09:21 <nikkelitous> Sym link could work, but I haven't heard of anyone using it.
Nov 13 16:09:53 <nikkelitous> You'd actually have to partition the SD card off to give it a linux type FS.  Or I guess you could use a loopback...
Nov 13 16:10:09 <wastrel> is there a way to turn off the audible notification when i plug into USB?
Nov 13 16:10:13 <nikkelitous> Either way you'd have to keep the SD card in the G1 or unpredictable things would happen.
Nov 13 16:10:31 <wastrel> i don't really need to be notified when i plug into usb, because i just plugged into usb so i already know
Nov 13 16:10:52 <ali1234> if they were serious about not allowing apps on SD, they'd mount it noexec, in which case, no chance of "tricking" it
Nov 13 16:11:03 <Impossible> anyone have an idea where the urls' were found for the google downloads on this page? http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=OTA_Updates
Nov 13 16:11:07 <blount> the main reason apps were not allowed on the sd card is that there are the fat filesystem doesn't have any access protection
Nov 13 16:11:11 <dd94300> why silent and vibrate mode icons do not display on status bar?
Nov 13 16:12:35 <remitaylor> whenever i try to startActivityForResult(new Intent( this, ActivityClassInMyPackage.class ), some_integer), i get an ActivityNotFoundException ... anyone run into this / tips?
Nov 13 16:13:30 <nikkelitous> ali1234: True, but even then a loopback/2nd partition would allow access.
Nov 13 16:13:57 <nikkelitous> blount: Yes, but has anyone tried the loopback or 2nd partition method?
Nov 13 16:14:06 <cmonex> unix_lappy... iphone has no choice without a sd slot :) the storage is way bigger than on G1..
Nov 13 16:14:09 <nikkelitous> Basically I'm just sick of not having enough space for all the apps I want.
Nov 13 16:15:46 <unix_lappy> cmonex: what do you mean?
Nov 13 16:16:16 <nikkelitous> unix_lappy: The iPhone has 8gb internal memory and no option for external memory.
Nov 13 16:16:27 <nikkelitous> So you're kind of forced to use the internal flash for app storage.
Nov 13 16:16:46 <cmonex> unix_lappy : just replied to your line
Nov 13 16:17:15 <cmonex> yeah, 8gb would be just fine
Nov 13 16:17:20 <blount> nikkelitous: dunno, but ya, there's also the problem that the sd can be removed without warning, which would hose an app pretty bad
Nov 13 16:17:27 <unix_lappy> ahh, yea i dont quite understand the design principles behind that decision, but i'm nowhere near as competent as the designers...
Nov 13 16:17:46 <jbq> well, worse, it can hose the system pretty bad (as in, full device reboot within 5 seconds)
Nov 13 16:17:48 <nikkelitous> blount: Yeah, but if I'm doing it for myself, I could just keep that in mind.
Nov 13 16:18:07 <cmonex> blount: windows mobile phones have no problem with removing sd
Nov 13 16:18:09 <blount> ya, it was built for the masses, sadly not the hacker
Nov 13 16:18:11 <cmonex> :)
Nov 13 16:18:22 <cmonex> so i'm sure it can't be that catastrophic..
Nov 13 16:18:33 <nikkelitous> unix_lappy: The design principles behind the iPhone are "Our users are idiots, let's make the decisions for them" while the G1 is almost the exact opposite.
Nov 13 16:18:35 <jbq> cmonex: WM phones aren't running a linux kernel
Nov 13 16:18:48 <nikkelitous> blount: Sure, but as hackers we should be able to get it working.
Nov 13 16:18:57 <cmonex> jbq: yeah, clearly WM has a more stupid kernel,
Nov 13 16:19:02 <cmonex> but even there this porblem is solved
Nov 13 16:19:11 <jbq> linux really doesn't like it when you pull a block device with mounted filesystems and open files.
Nov 13 16:19:25 <cmonex> hmm,
Nov 13 16:19:26 <nikkelitous> But see, Android assumes you're leaving it in place, especially if you're storing your apps there.
Nov 13 16:19:29 <blount> heh, go nuts.  just keep in mind that if you don't protect it somehow, other apps will be able to overwrite whatever you put on the card
Nov 13 16:19:29 <cmonex> and no workaround really?
Nov 13 16:19:32 <nikkelitous> That is the problem.
Nov 13 16:19:49 <wastrel> put ext2 on it
Nov 13 16:19:55 <jbq> cmonex: the workaround we have is to kill any process that has files open on such a filesystem within a few seconds.
Nov 13 16:19:57 <nikkelitous> blount: Yeah, thats why I'm thinking of the second partition.  No app would be able to mess with that.
Nov 13 16:20:09 <cmonex> jbq: thats better than nothing :)
Nov 13 16:20:27 <cmonex> the apps from SD on WM just crash after a while if the SD is removed
Nov 13 16:20:28 <jbq> cmonex: yeah, except if you do it to the system process.
Nov 13 16:20:29 <nikkelitous> cmonex: There is no work around at the moment, but since android is open source I'm certain one will come along.
Nov 13 16:20:51 <cmonex> jbq: i'm talking about ordinary apps
Nov 13 16:20:54 <cmonex> :)
Nov 13 16:21:00 <jbq> the kernel doesn't know the difference
Nov 13 16:21:43 <cmonex> the user may, though =)
Nov 13 16:22:25 <umdk1d3> hmm i wonder if you could build an sdcard bay that detected the push in before it clicks out and does an emergency flush
Nov 13 16:22:51 <nikkelitous> umdk1d3: Well the sync takes a lot longer than the time for it to pop out.
Nov 13 16:22:59 <jbq> umdk1d3: the G1 does that with the door.
Nov 13 16:23:06 <nikkelitous> Even just closing the journal takes nearly a second.
Nov 13 16:23:13 <umdk1d3> oh it watches the door somehow?  cool!
Nov 13 16:23:24 <cmonex> delay the pushing out then...
Nov 13 16:23:25 <cmonex> nice idea..
Nov 13 16:23:48 <nikkelitous> Detecting the opening the door makes sense.
Nov 13 16:23:54 <jbq> the system then broadcasts an intent saying that all apps must stop using files on the sd card.
Nov 13 16:23:59 <nikkelitous> Especially with how hard it is to get the card out.
Nov 13 16:25:05 <jbq> The problem I bumped into with that design is that I don't know whether an app can know which of its files are actually on the SD card
Nov 13 16:25:51 <Leeds> I think I asked this question earlier - is there a list of all broadcast intents?  ideally somewhere other than a header file :-)
Nov 13 16:26:18 <jbq> Well, by definition, no, since any app can broadcast...
Nov 13 16:26:32 <Leeds> okay, broadcasts from 'the system'
Nov 13 16:26:33 <umdk1d3> well hopefully they used Environment.getExternalStorageDirectory, and would use that to keep track
Nov 13 16:26:33 <jbq> That being said, the majority of the system intents are documented with the Intent class.
Nov 13 16:27:07 <jbq> umdk1d3: maybe the apps didn't open the files themselves (ContentProvider -> ParcelFileDescriptors).
Nov 13 16:27:22 <umdk1d3> hmm true  :/
Nov 13 16:27:43 <jbq> (or, technically, they cold have inherited them through a fork, but it's a lot less relevant)
Nov 13 16:28:34 <Leeds> ah, silly me - I thought it should be on the page called "List of Intents" :-P
Nov 13 16:28:42 <Leeds> thanks
Nov 13 16:28:47 <jbq> np
Nov 13 16:29:03 <umdk1d3> also, Environment only seems to talk about one external storage dir, so that might make it harder to keep track of with multiple sdcards
Nov 13 16:29:38 <jbq> umdk1d3: definitely. That's a limitation. such devices are rare (though they do exist, I have a Dell PDA with dual-slots)
Nov 13 16:31:26 <cmonex> i have loads of such devices :)
Nov 13 16:31:29 <Leeds> "ACTION_MEDIA_BAD_REMOVAL"
Nov 13 16:31:37 <vol> BAD TOUCH
Nov 13 16:31:40 <vol> : (
Nov 13 16:32:00 <vol> Again, where should I put the sdcard.img file for the emulator to auto mount it?
Nov 13 16:32:10 <vol> I have it in ~/.android/SDK-1.0/sdcard.img
Nov 13 16:32:12 <umdk1d3> vol: you have to launch the emulator with a flag
Nov 13 16:32:16 <vol> oh ffs
Nov 13 16:32:21 <vol> really?
Nov 13 16:32:24 <vol> it won't automount it?
Nov 13 16:32:38 <umdk1d3> if launching from eclipse, i think you could add the flag in settings there
Nov 13 16:32:48 <nikkelitous> I'm still much more interested in putting apps themselves onto the SD card.
Nov 13 16:32:48 <vol> the windows version seems to figure out automounting : (
Nov 13 16:32:52 <vol> m2
Nov 13 16:33:03 <vol> I really wish there was a way to remove the noexec flag from the sdcard
Nov 13 16:33:08 <vol> aside from, you know, remounting it : \
Nov 13 16:33:11 <Leeds> incidentally, has anyone ever tested the tricorder sensor?
Nov 13 16:33:43 <malcolm_> fortuna che c'è malcom
Nov 13 16:34:23 <mikez5> The emulator will use an SD card image if you specify it on the command line:
Nov 13 16:34:34 <vol> mikez5: yes, I know
Nov 13 16:34:36 <mikez5> emulator -sdcard <path to FAT image file>
Nov 13 16:34:46 <tauno> I wonder if I did something wrong when logcat shows 20 times in a row that "GC freed xx objects / xxxxxx bytes in xxms" in response to an action :P
Nov 13 16:35:07 <KNY> tauno, no, that's just the garbage collector
Nov 13 16:35:11 <romainguy> tauno: you're allocating way too much
Nov 13 16:35:11 <jbq> tauno: is it all in your app?
Nov 13 16:35:12 <KNY> freeing unused RAM
Nov 13 16:35:13 <romainguy> :)
Nov 13 16:35:23 <vol> tauno: stop allocating 10MB at a time
Nov 13 16:35:27 <tauno> I know what it means ;)
Nov 13 16:35:30 <remitaylor> remitaylor: not to self (and anyone who find this in the logs), starting an activity with an Intent like `new Intent(this, AnActivity.class)` will *not* work unless AnActivity is defined as an activity in AndroidManifest.xml (doesn't need any IntentFilters or anything)
Nov 13 16:36:01 <jbq> remitaylor: correct. activities have to be declared in the manifest, even if they're never invoked from the outside.
Nov 13 16:36:04 <KNY> remitaylor, well, yeah. The error message even says that.
Nov 13 16:36:37 <vol> mikez5: I type at the command line: "emulator"
Nov 13 16:36:43 <vol> and, hey, it automounted the sdcard on windows
Nov 13 16:36:56 <tauno> how expensive is it if I set the AA flag in my TextPaint?
Nov 13 16:37:05 <vol> $3.50
Nov 13 16:37:07 <umdk1d3> was it me, or did logcat used to nicely format the extras when a new intent was fired?  or has it always just said "has extras"
Nov 13 16:37:15 <blau> this is driving me nuts
Nov 13 16:37:39 <blau> umdk, never noticed extras being listed out
Nov 13 16:37:46 <blau> but ive only used .9 and 1.0
Nov 13 16:38:02 <umdk1d3> i wonder if there is a way to peek at them
Nov 13 16:38:06 <tauno> vol, how much does a version without AA cost? ;) I wanna know the difference :)
Nov 13 16:38:23 <vol> $1.05
Nov 13 16:38:33 <vol> the drawing isn't free
Nov 13 16:38:35 <tauno> oh.. then i better not use it :/
Nov 13 16:38:47 <mikez5> vol: maybe you can put it in ~/.android/
Nov 13 16:38:52 <vol> I tried that too.
Nov 13 16:38:53 <mikez5> I'm not sure
Nov 13 16:38:54 <romainguy> tauno: you should keep AA for text
Nov 13 16:39:04 <romainguy> especially since Skia does tons of clever caching with fonts
Nov 13 16:39:33 <tauno> romainguy, I guess so.. it looks really crappy without it :(
Nov 13 16:39:40 <tauno> romainguy, Skia?
Nov 13 16:39:41 <vol> heh, yeah it does :P
Nov 13 16:39:44 <romainguy> the 2D library
Nov 13 16:39:49 <tauno> k
Nov 13 16:39:56 <romainguy> use traceview to see where time is spent :)
Nov 13 16:40:13 <d0netsFN> still no progress for apps from sd card??/
Nov 13 16:40:38 <wastrel> apps don't work on sd
Nov 13 16:40:45 <nikkelitous> d0netsFN: Actually, I'm pretty much done.
Nov 13 16:40:46 <d0netsFN> will they?
Nov 13 16:41:06 <nikkelitous> d0netsFN: Yes they'll work.
Nov 13 16:41:07 <tauno> romainguy, I think I don't want to really know that (afraid that I'll see that my functions are lagging :P)
Nov 13 16:41:10 <jbq> funny, if it was that easy, you'd think that the experienced android contributors would have done it already.
Nov 13 16:41:24 <d0netsFN> nikelitous i thought you were kidding
Nov 13 16:41:30 <nikkelitous> jbq: They did, when they installed Debian.
Nov 13 16:41:49 <nikkelitous> Basically you create a loopback and mount that as /data.
Nov 13 16:41:51 <blau> coding makes me sleepy
Nov 13 16:41:54 <romainguy> we are thinking about it
Nov 13 16:42:01 <romainguy> but doing it correctly is not easy nor simple
Nov 13 16:42:18 <romainguy> a crude hack that just works probably is a lot simpler though :)
Nov 13 16:42:20 <vol> wait what? really?
Nov 13 16:42:29 <vol> can this be done programatically?
Nov 13 16:42:33 <KNY> romainguy, just half-ass it and then blame it on user error. This is OSS, after all ;)
Nov 13 16:42:40 <vol> haha
Nov 13 16:42:41 <nikkelitous> Sure, there are much better ways to do it, you could do unionfs or something like that, but I just mounted it really quickly and boom.
Nov 13 16:42:42 <romainguy> KNY: :)))
Nov 13 16:42:57 <vol> I mean, is there a way to do this on a production device w/o having root?
Nov 13 16:43:02 <nikkelitous> Copied over my existing apps and it's all good.  I now have 1gb of space for apps.
Nov 13 16:43:06 <jbq> vol: nom, there isn't.
Nov 13 16:43:08 <nikkelitous> vol: No, not possible.
Nov 13 16:43:10 <vol> boo.
Nov 13 16:43:14 <vol> you had my hopes up for a second
Nov 13 16:43:15 <nikkelitous> vol: You'd have to get root.
Nov 13 16:43:28 <nikkelitous> And if you have rc30 then you'll have to wait for a hack.
Nov 13 16:43:28 <cmonex> see, root is useful
Nov 13 16:43:31 <cmonex> lool
Nov 13 16:43:40 <vol> Our release shared lib is going to be ~9MB at the moment, and that's stripping all symbol information
Nov 13 16:43:51 <cmonex> what program is that vol?
Nov 13 16:44:03 <nikkelitous> For info on the whole loopback thing you can see how they did it at http://www.saurik.com/id/10
Nov 13 16:44:08 <vol> I'd, er, rather not disclose who I work for until we're a little further along
Nov 13 16:44:17 <cmonex> ok, sory =)
Nov 13 16:44:19 <vol> lets just say we're a mature company that creates a particular app for the mobile market
Nov 13 16:44:20 <d0netsFN> nikelitous
Nov 13 16:44:20 <cmonex> sorry*
Nov 13 16:44:28 <cmonex> sounds cool
Nov 13 16:44:34 <vol> and we have a pretty complete C library/app we'd like to port to android
Nov 13 16:44:48 <d0netsFN> what about  the hacked rc30?
Nov 13 16:44:57 <nikkelitous> d0netsFN: If you've got root, you can do it.
Nov 13 16:45:02 <romainguy> a mature company that wants to release an app using unsupported native code?
Nov 13 16:45:07 <romainguy> that's rather peculiar :))
Nov 13 16:45:17 <vol> well, we could rewrite the entire thing to use java, and spend about 20 man years on that.
Nov 13 16:45:26 <romainguy> I understand
Nov 13 16:45:44 <vol> not to mention that since there's no freaking JIT, it'd be unacceptably slow
Nov 13 16:45:47 <romainguy> but you could wait for official support :P
Nov 13 16:45:52 <romainguy> <sigh>
Nov 13 16:45:54 <romainguy> here comes the JIT
Nov 13 16:45:56 <vol> eh.
Nov 13 16:46:14 <Chainfire> no jit necessary... cpu got accelerated java support, right?
Nov 13 16:46:15 <vol> We want to pretty much be ready to go once "official" support for native code comes
Nov 13 16:46:17 <nikkelitous> Heh.  I actually completely agree with the choice of Java.
Nov 13 16:46:25 <Chainfire> blasphemy!
Nov 13 16:46:32 <nikkelitous> Chainfire: Yes, it's java accelerated, but JIT is still faster.
Nov 13 16:46:32 <vol> at the moment we're kind of playing around, seeing just what we can do
Nov 13 16:46:34 <blau> java rules
Nov 13 16:46:39 <vol> I'm having a devil of a time dealing with gdbserver/gdb
Nov 13 16:46:40 <KNY> they should have gone with some language that no one else uses, ever.
Nov 13 16:46:44 * KNY looks at apple
Nov 13 16:46:46 <vol> haha
Nov 13 16:46:58 <vol> we actually ported our product to apple, but due to the licensing agreement for the sdk we can't release it yet : (
Nov 13 16:46:59 <nikkelitous> I hated Java before Android.  And actually I still hate Java.  But I love Dalvik.
Nov 13 16:47:01 <Chainfire> lolcode ?
Nov 13 16:47:14 <tauno> romainguy, well.. yeah.. we are also going the native code way I guess.. it seems what "they" decide :/
Nov 13 16:47:15 <vol> it only took us about a month, too, which is why we're kind of keen on doing it this way for android
Nov 13 16:47:21 <vol> s/apple/iphone/
Nov 13 16:47:22 <jbq> Chainfire: just minutes ago we were discussing the lack of space on the internal flash. JIT takes a lot of space.
Nov 13 16:47:26 * Chainfire also going the native code
Nov 13 16:47:26 <blau> vol what product
Nov 13 16:47:43 <vol> 11:44 < vol> I'd, er, rather not disclose who I work for until we're a little further along
Nov 13 16:47:54 <vol> I'll say we make applications instead of games
Nov 13 16:48:08 <blau> oh im on my phone cant scrollback
Nov 13 16:48:29 <vol> I'm not really sure whether or not I'm allowed to discuss who I work for, since that might give a pretty good idea what we're trying to do :P
Nov 13 16:48:31 <Chainfire> jbq> ah k... dont read this chan continuously... and its one of 16 on my screen
Nov 13 16:48:41 <jbq> heh - np.
Nov 13 16:49:01 <Chainfire> vol> microsoft? :D
Nov 13 16:49:01 <jbq> Anyway, JIT has some significant time/space tradeoffs, and space is also tight on cell phones.
Nov 13 16:49:05 <vol> No, not microsoft.
Nov 13 16:49:12 <vol> If I were microsoft, I wouldn't be getting support on irc :P
Nov 13 16:49:18 <tauno> it's just that some things need the extra speed/functionality that isnt available in the SDK
Nov 13 16:49:22 <tauno> vol, :D
Nov 13 16:50:06 <Chainfire> meh for me its more about not wanting to rewrite an assload of code in java...
Nov 13 16:52:14 <tauno> anyway.. I won't be writing the native code so I really don't care as long as I can continue to display Dialogs and put stuff in ListViews :P
Nov 13 16:52:34 * savid <3's his new G1
Nov 13 16:53:07 <`vip> it will only get better, savid
Nov 13 16:53:08 <`vip> ;p
Nov 13 16:53:25 <savid> yay
Nov 13 16:53:28 <KNY> `vip, the G1 won't; Android, however, will.
Nov 13 16:53:39 <`vip> yeah
Nov 13 16:54:02 <vol> .. :<
Nov 13 16:55:55 <savid> I wouldn't <3 my G1 if it weren't for android
Nov 13 16:56:12 <KNY> I wouldn't have bought my G1 if not for android
Nov 13 16:56:41 <nikkelitous> I wouldn't have even looked at my G1 if it weren't for android.
Nov 13 16:56:51 * jbq feels the love
Nov 13 16:57:11 <Chainfire> i certainly hope the G1 will be updated as Android is, though
Nov 13 16:57:25 <nikkelitous> The G1 has inner beauty.
Nov 13 16:57:28 <`vip> would it be possible to have something like www.tweetsville.com on android ?
Nov 13 16:57:32 <jeld> for all intents and purposes G1 is not a bad phone. The only two things that bother me about it are limited internal memory and lack of regular phone jack
Nov 13 16:57:34 <blau> android makes g1
Nov 13 16:57:35 <savid> Who's responsible for pushing updates to G1?  Is it google or T-Mobile?
Nov 13 16:57:46 <nikkelitous> Chainfire: The G1 should *mostly* stay in sync with the official tree.
Nov 13 16:57:57 <jeld> if G1 was running some other hypothetical OS it would still be OK
Nov 13 16:57:57 <Leeds> nikkelitous: until it gets EOLed
Nov 13 16:58:06 <`vip> I believe Tmo pushes them
Nov 13 16:58:07 <nikkelitous> savid: It's T-Mobile and HTC using Google's codebase.
Nov 13 16:58:14 <nikkelitous> Leeds: Then the hackers will take over.
Nov 13 16:58:20 <jeld> savid, T-Mobile of course. Its their network
Nov 13 16:58:31 <savid> makes sense
Nov 13 16:58:42 <nikkelitous> Google designs them, HTC makes them, T-mobile sends them.
Nov 13 16:59:08 <jbq> It's more complex than that actually.
Nov 13 16:59:20 <savid> Ah, so HTC does the builds, and sends them to T-Mobile to distribute?
Nov 13 16:59:21 <jeld> nikkelitous, well, there is not much difference between dedign and make in case of OS bug fixes :)
Nov 13 16:59:27 <jeld> nikkelitous, *design*
Nov 13 16:59:32 <savid> just curious about the procses
Nov 13 16:59:54 <nikkelitous> jeld: Except HTC is responsible for actually debugging it and ensuring it works correctly on the G1.
Nov 13 17:00:06 <jeld> nikkelitous, are you sure?
Nov 13 17:00:08 <jbq> there's an entire approval and testing process as well
Nov 13 17:00:27 <jeld> what is the source of all this information?
Nov 13 17:00:31 <tauno> I really start to appreciate the 8GB storage on my other phone when seeing how quickly the MBs vanish.. but hey.. at least my g1 is not full yet so I better fire up Market again :)
Nov 13 17:00:33 <nikkelitous> jeld: Yes, T-mobile doesn't have the mansources necessary.
Nov 13 17:00:45 <vol> mansources ;D
Nov 13 17:00:50 <Impossible> lol
Nov 13 17:00:55 <nikkelitous> tauno: Well, you could always use the SD card.
Nov 13 17:00:57 <unix_lappy> tauno: you have to remember, the marketplace is no where NEAR as developed as it should be.
Nov 13 17:00:59 <jeld> I mean I was pretty sure that HTC was more or less out of the loop at this point, unless there was a bug in firmware
Nov 13 17:01:22 <unix_lappy> so 256MB is really paltry when you consider the potential...
Nov 13 17:01:31 <nikkelitous> jeld: T-mobile just slaps their name on it.  HTC handles all technical tasks still.
Nov 13 17:02:02 <jeld> nikkelitous, hmm... a link to the source of info?
Nov 13 17:02:42 <jeld> unix_lappy, that depends, I have a bunch of apps installed and my phone is not full. Of course people who want every last application installed will have trouble really fast :)
Nov 13 17:02:44 <nikkelitous> jeld: Sorry, not online.
Nov 13 17:03:03 <savid> is it possible to transfer files via bluetooth between a pc and the g1?
Nov 13 17:03:04 <jeld> nikkelitous, are you representing Google/HTC/T-mobile?
Nov 13 17:03:08 <Leeds> savid: not yet
Nov 13 17:03:23 <nikkelitous> jeld: I'm representing nobody but myself.
Nov 13 17:03:38 <unix_lappy> jeld: i'm not talking about what's available to date, i'm talking about what you'll have available and find interesting in 2009.
Nov 13 17:04:03 <Leeds> jeld: but there are certainly people in this channel now who work for at least a couple of those companies and have insider information
Nov 13 17:04:10 <jeld> nikkelitous, well, how did you get access to the information then? Or are you making reasonbale guesses?
Nov 13 17:04:31 <jeld> Leeds, of course, so I was checking if this person was one of them :)
Nov 13 17:04:33 <Impossible> in a side note, i have been having probs with market on my G1 today. I have renamed the OTA keys.
Nov 13 17:04:51 <Impossible> I assume people who have renames the OTA keys are still using market okay?
Nov 13 17:04:54 <Leeds> they may or may not wish to identify themselves as such
Nov 13 17:05:07 <Leeds> Impossible: I also had trouble today... and I renamed the keys last night
Nov 13 17:05:22 <nikkelitous> I've renamed my keys.
Nov 13 17:05:23 <jeld> Leeds, WE GOT SEKRET GOOGLE SPIES!!!
Nov 13 17:05:26 <nikkelitous> Let me check the market.
Nov 13 17:05:39 <Leeds> but I don't think it's connected - I think it was just a hiccup, to be honest
Nov 13 17:05:39 <nikkelitous> romainguy is the ringleader!
Nov 13 17:05:53 <Leeds> nikkelitous: sssh! don't let him know that we know!
Nov 13 17:05:55 <nikkelitous> My app market is working fine.
Nov 13 17:06:06 <Impossible> thanks for the info Leeds
Nov 13 17:06:22 <Impossible> worst case, if it doesnt work tommorow i will rename the keys
Nov 13 17:06:53 <tauno> (vertically centering text) when I draw text using drawText("asdf", x, y, paint); it's painted too low.. when I use drawText("asdf", x, y - paint.getFOntMetrics().bottom, paint); it's looks too high.. what's the right way of centering it? :/
Nov 13 17:07:09 <jeld> Leeds, but in any case, either people represent the company giving out insider info or they are guessing (in absence of a news source link)
Nov 13 17:07:38 <jeld> Leeds, so I was trying to establish which one was happening :)
Nov 13 17:08:10 <Leeds> Impossible: I had trouble twice today - once, I rebooted and it was fine, the second time I left it for a bit, it switched network a couple of times (I was on my way home), and by the time I got home it had downloaded
Nov 13 17:08:11 <romainguy_> tauno: the y coordinate indicates where the baseline of the text is drawn
Nov 13 17:08:21 <romainguy_> so you have to play with the ascent and descent of the font
Nov 13 17:08:32 <Leeds> jeld: and frankly, since this is IRC, you will never know for sure
Nov 13 17:08:36 <tauno> romainguy_ I know.. that's why I tried adding the .bottom to it :/
Nov 13 17:08:43 <jeld> Leeds, true :)
Nov 13 17:09:07 <romainguy_> tauno: try with - theAscent
Nov 13 17:09:07 <jeld> Leeds, but I like to think of people as naturally good and trustworthy :)
Nov 13 17:09:16 <vol> that's your first mistake, jeld.
Nov 13 17:09:36 <jeld> vol, :)
Nov 13 17:09:53 <romainguy_> jeld: finally someone normal on this channel :)
Nov 13 17:09:58 <tauno> romainguy, ok, will do (thanks again.. sorry for bothering you always but you seem to be the only UI guy here..)
Nov 13 17:09:58 <Leeds> jeld: for example, romainguy can claim to be Eric Schmidt as much as he likes... but thta doesn't mean we have to believe him ;-)
Nov 13 17:10:06 <romainguy_> tauno: no worry
Nov 13 17:10:20 <nikkelitous> jeld: People only "represent" when they're allowed to.  If you're not allowed to then you can't "represent" the company.
Nov 13 17:10:21 <romainguy_> tauno: it makes for a good change after days of talks about root :)
Nov 13 17:10:42 <tauno> talking of root..
Nov 13 17:10:44 <tauno> j/k :)
Nov 13 17:10:46 <romainguy_> no :)
Nov 13 17:11:17 <tauno> I really don't care that much.. I just want my customViews to look nice :P
Nov 13 17:11:55 <jeld> Leeds, on the other hand, I do not see any good reason for a person to pretend to be an HTC employee, so I put low probability on that happening, and an actual HTC employee who refuses to identify himself as such is likely to be disseminating information not exactly approved of by the company (it might still be true or it might not)
Nov 13 17:12:36 <jeld> nikkelitous, then your information is not "official"
Nov 13 17:13:04 * tauno is a HTC employee.. but I won't say who
Nov 13 17:13:25 <nikkelitous> jeld: Sure, I never said it was.
Nov 13 17:13:41 <nikkelitous> It just happens to be true.
Nov 13 17:13:54 <jeld> nikkelitous, the problem with gossip is that it is not a reliable source of information :)
Nov 13 17:14:25 <DannyB> breaking news: random people on internet can't be trusted
Nov 13 17:14:52 <Damm> DannyB, specially you.
Nov 13 17:15:04 <DannyB> so if i'm lying about that
Nov 13 17:15:07 <romainguy_> he's a lawyer, don't listen t him!
Nov 13 17:15:07 <andyross> I'm confused, is there any *actual* information (that may or may not come from HTC and may or may not be official, yada yada) that we're evaluating?
Nov 13 17:15:13 <DannyB> doesn't that mean they *can* be trusted?
Nov 13 17:15:25 <DannyB> and if they can be trusted
Nov 13 17:15:27 <DannyB> how could i be lying
Nov 13 17:15:28 <Damm> DannyB, all i'm saying is we can't trust you.
Nov 13 17:15:29 <jeld> DannyB, 3 * 5 = 15, you can trust me on that
Nov 13 17:15:37 <vol> not for certain values of 3!
Nov 13 17:15:42 <DannyB> jeld: prove it
Nov 13 17:15:44 <nikkelitous> jeld: True, but you have to ask, why would T-mobile be actively developing for a system they didn't design?  While HTC did design it, has all the men who did so, and know all the design decisions.
Nov 13 17:15:47 <Disconnect> jeld: i just ran that on my old p90 server and it came out to 14.9999997 i think you lied to me.
Nov 13 17:15:57 <vol> also not true in number systems aside from base 10
Nov 13 17:16:03 <nikkelitous> Moving everything to T-mobile would take a lot of time and effort and create many problems.
Nov 13 17:16:27 <jeld> DannyB, as I said, you will have to trust me :')
Nov 13 17:16:37 <jeld> Disconnect, :) :) :)
Nov 13 17:16:41 <andyross> My experience in the industry was that carriers don't do much more than write and read specs. They don't have any engineers who actually work directly on core handset software.  That was a few years back, and none of the carriers were in the US though.
Nov 13 17:17:37 <jeld> nikkelitous, true, albeit T-Mobile has more information about the network G1 is to run on and are probably quite unwilling to share that information with anybody
Nov 13 17:18:17 <nikkelitous> jeld: Ahh, but they do, they share it with Qualcomm who makes the chips that run on the network.  Those chips are then simply put into phones such as the G1.
Nov 13 17:18:53 <andyross> And the cell hardware, for that matter.  Although I'm not sure if Qualcomm has any UMTS products.
Nov 13 17:19:40 <nikkelitous> BTW, I can confirm app store working with the OTA keys moved.
Nov 13 17:20:35 <Guest91201> my true identity has been revealed.
Nov 13 17:20:37 <Chainfire> andyross> the G1 supports UMTS... ?
Nov 13 17:21:05 <andyross> T-Mobile's 3G network is UMTS
Nov 13 17:21:30 <Chainfire> I know, I'm wonderign about what you said about Qualcomm and UMTS
Nov 13 17:22:01 <andyross> I have no idea.  But Qualcomm makes radio hardware on both sides of the link, I just don't know how far they are into the GSM world.  Their core competency has always been CDMA.
Nov 13 17:22:14 <umdk1d3> grr so im really set on trying to find a way of sniffing extras sent in someone elses intents
Nov 13 17:22:26 <Chainfire> ah UMTS 'provider' hardware you mean
Nov 13 17:22:33 <umdk1d3> the wonderful Intent.toString just gives us "(has extras)"
Nov 13 17:22:54 <andyross> Exactly.  The MSM7200 chipset is a GSM product, the equivalent AFAICT to their CDMA 7500 series.
Nov 13 17:22:56 <umdk1d3> and ActivityManager.getRecentTasks only gets top-level intents, like from the desktop
Nov 13 17:23:03 <kRutOn> andyross: The G1 *#*#INFO#*#* screen has an option for creating QXDM logs which is Qualcomm stuff...
Nov 13 17:23:24 <kRutOn> oh, you guys are talking aobut Qualcomm's GSM stuff.. nevermind
Nov 13 17:23:39 <Chainfire> yeah 72xx is GSM variant of 75xx
Nov 13 17:23:55 <kRutOn> andyross: Anyway, Sprint has engineers that work on the OS.
Nov 13 17:24:35 <kRutOn> andyross: But they have a lot more technical expertise than any other wireless provider I've worked with and I've worked with all of them.
Nov 13 17:24:52 <kRutOn> andyross: all of them in the US
Nov 13 17:25:31 <nikkelitous> Sweet!  Info menu is cool!
Nov 13 17:26:08 <andyross> Could be.  My experience was working on a middleware-ish software product that had to do pretty tight OS integration.  The carriers (the ones we were talking to were in Japan and Europe) were happy to buy the software, but completely useless at providing integration support.  The best they could do was get us better contacts at the OS vendors.
Nov 13 17:26:34 * andyross spent far too much time trying to reverse engineer Symbian library internals than he wants to remember...
Nov 13 17:28:39 <kRutOn> andyross: Yeah, I see a lot of that with carriers as well. The three people I work with most from Sprint graduated from MIT, Purdue, and Berkeley respectively. Kind of odd to have those kind of people in the middle of the US.
Nov 13 17:29:17 <Impossible> thanks alot nikkelitous
Nov 13 17:29:21 <andyross> Sprint's in St. Louis, right?  Yeah, not exactly one's first choice of career location.
Nov 13 17:29:59 <mib_b9jtt3>  i get that info menu to work exactly
Nov 13 17:30:08 <mib_b9jtt3> how do*
Nov 13 17:30:28 <kRutOn> andyross: Kansas City suburb
Nov 13 17:30:38 <kRutOn> andyross: My sample might be skewed towards awesome as well
Nov 13 17:30:40 <andyross> Ah, right.  I was close. :)
Nov 13 17:32:02 <kRutOn> oh, there's another two guys there from IIT
Nov 13 17:33:26 <bert0> never mind
Nov 13 17:35:49 <hakaloogee> are there any other hidden menus like that info one?
Nov 13 17:36:04 <tauno> it would be most helpful if there was a picture that highlights paint descent/ascents and FontMetrics top, bottom.. I'm a little confused there :(
Nov 13 17:38:23 <kRutOn> http://www.duncanjauncey.com/blog/wp-content/java_font_metrics.png
Nov 13 17:38:26 <kRutOn> tauno: take a look at that
Nov 13 17:39:25 <kRutOn> http://journals.ecs.soton.ac.uk/java/tutorial/ui/drawing/images/fontMetrics_trans.gif
Nov 13 17:39:27 <tauno> kRutOn, thanks.. but what about FontMetrics top and bottom? :)
Nov 13 17:39:28 <kRutOn> or that
Nov 13 17:42:02 <andyross> Hrm... reading the docs for android.graphics.Paint.FontMetrics, it seems like they're using non-standard terms.  Clasically, ascent/descent refer to the highest/loweset point on any glyph in the font.  But that's what android is calling "top" and "bottom".  They define ascent/descent as a "recommended" distance (recommended to who, the font designer I guess?) instead.
Nov 13 17:43:29 <andyross> So I guess if you're choosing line spacing, you want ascent+descent+leading.  If you're computing a bounding box, you want top and bottom.
Nov 13 17:45:32 <remitaylor> AndroidHttpClient doesn't seem present anymore ... what's the conventional way to do an HTTP request in Android?
Nov 13 17:46:53 <tauno> andyross, I want to horizontally center the text in a surrounding box so that it appears in the center of the box.. I only get it shoing too low or too high.. not at the center.
Nov 13 17:49:06 <andyross> That's a harder task than it seems.  If you lay out "Fill" and "gang" vertically using the same numbers, one of them is likely to look wrong, for example.  But basically, you want to center ascent+descent pixels, then put the center at the bottom of that band +descent.
Nov 13 17:50:12 <andyross> sorry, "put the baseline", not "put the center"
Nov 13 17:51:54 <tauno> I'm not sure if I got what you were saying (it has been a ~12 hour workday already for me) but I'll try to do *something* like that :)
Nov 13 17:53:21 <tauno> kRutOn, Android does not follow the same logic.. as no of the other values make getHeight() when added together
Nov 13 17:55:50 <manikz> is there an irc app for android? can i use BitchX through ssh?
Nov 13 17:58:21 <manikz> also...is it true that one can install debian in tandem with android on the g1?
Nov 13 17:59:02 <nizox> manikz: I don't think, bitchx depends to ncurses
Nov 13 18:00:19 <manikz> ncurses eh?
Nov 13 18:02:28 <manikz> can i disable ota updates temporarily?
Nov 13 18:02:46 <RyeBrye> manikz - yes, move the otacerts.zip if you have root access - no if you do not
Nov 13 18:03:39 <manikz> if i move it back they resume?
Nov 13 18:03:56 <RyeBrye> yes
Nov 13 18:04:14 <Impossible> manikz: there are no native irc clients for the G1 atm
Nov 13 18:04:27 <manikz> thanks
Nov 13 18:04:42 <Disconnect> it'll still do a bunch of dls tho
Nov 13 18:05:02 <Impossible> btw, does anyone know how to add a speed dial to the G1? if i press and hold "1" it phones my answerphone... I would like to assign a contact to the other nubmers
Nov 13 18:12:37 <manikz> how is it not to google's advantage to release an open source beta bluetooth api? i am sure there are many people out there willing to work on it.
Nov 13 18:12:50 <tauno> andyross, it's a little too high when using this but I think I have to let it be like that :/
Nov 13 18:13:28 <andyross> There is a native bluetooth API that you can use.  I havent tried it, but bluez is just a socket type, so it shouldn't have any root requirements.
Nov 13 18:13:54 <andyross> (I haven't tried it on the G1, that is.  I played around with bluez a few years back, and it's about as sane an API as anything dealing with bluetooth can be)
Nov 13 18:14:09 <manikz> where can i find more information on that?
Nov 13 18:15:01 <Disconnect> manikz: nobody -can- work on it. g1's are locked. all platform changes must come from google.
Nov 13 18:15:35 <manikz> so has anyone tried bluez on g1?
Nov 13 18:15:38 <andyross> Again, I don't think that's true.  The bluez API (manikz: bluez.org is the project site IIRC) is just a socket type.
Nov 13 18:17:19 <manikz> oh so why does google keep such a tight lockdown when the public is willing to help them?
Nov 13 18:17:37 <RyeBrye> T-mobile forces them to it seems
Nov 13 18:18:01 <RyeBrye> manikz - bluez is already on the device and in the build
Nov 13 18:18:05 <Disconnect> andyross: socket type is all well and good but working on a beta api means changing the platform. not possible w/o an open hw device to run it on
Nov 13 18:19:01 <ttuttle> manikz: security. even if it weren't for the carriers, google needs to make sure that, e.g., an app can't connect to the phone over bluetooth (using loopback) and steal your contacts without permission.
Nov 13 18:19:10 <andyross> I think we're talking past each other.  You can run native code on an unrooted G1 just fine.  You can open bluez sockets with a non-root process just fine.  So there's an API, and it works (presumably).  It's not supported.
Nov 13 18:19:48 <RyeBrye> Anyone got a bluetooth keyboard to work as an input device yet?
Nov 13 18:19:52 <Disconnect> "just fine"..? did goog finally release the supported native docs?
Nov 13 18:21:22 <andyross> "just fine" means that it works at a technical level.  "supported" is a different state that says nothing about whether something works.  The benefit of having source code is that we're supposed to be able to get *away* from this kind of discussion.  No one is applying thumscrews to force you to use an internal/unsupported API if you don't want.  But that doesn't mean it wont' do what you want either.
Nov 13 18:21:45 <andatche> anyone else in the UK still waiting for the OTA update?
Nov 13 18:24:32 <manikz> what do you mean by internal/unsupported?  btw didn't bluetooth work on devices prior to .9 sdk?
Nov 13 18:25:03 <ttuttle> Can anyone think of an easy way to get a file off the SD card without a USB cable?
Nov 13 18:25:04 <manikz> i mean beyond a headset for making calls
Nov 13 18:25:35 <andyross> Android doesn't support native binaries.  You have to build them against the open source release.  But the bluez API is a standard linux kernel thing, and (again, AFAIK -- I haven't tested this specifically) is enabled and working in the G1 kernel.
Nov 13 18:25:40 <unix_lappy> ttuttle: email it ;-P
Nov 13 18:25:45 <ttuttle> unix_lappy: how?
Nov 13 18:25:56 <andyross> ttuttle: OBEX!  Oh, wait...
Nov 13 18:26:04 <ttuttle> andyross: :P
Nov 13 18:26:12 <ttuttle> unix_lappy: How do I attach it?
Nov 13 18:26:31 <unix_lappy> I always assumed the Mail app let you attach documents from the SD card.
Nov 13 18:26:33 <andyross> Does the browser do uploads, maybe?  Write a quick form on a server somewehre?
Nov 13 18:26:41 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - scp?
Nov 13 18:26:41 <ttuttle> unix_lappy: It brings up Pictures to pick an attachment :(
Nov 13 18:26:46 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Does it have it?
Nov 13 18:26:50 <unix_lappy> ttuttle: what about Gmail Web App?
Nov 13 18:26:52 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: (Lemme check.  Oh man, if it did...)
Nov 13 18:27:01 <ttuttle> unix_lappy: Just a sec.
Nov 13 18:27:08 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - dunno what build you are running -but the open source sdk does have it built in the 'extras' dir
Nov 13 18:27:18 <ionstorm> shit animated .gif's dont work in the android browser
Nov 13 18:27:20 <RyeBrye> s/sdk/platform/
Nov 13 18:27:21 <ttuttle> YUS!
Nov 13 18:27:21 <infobot> RyeBrye meant: ttuttle - dunno what build you are running -but the open source platform does have it built in the 'extras' dir
Nov 13 18:27:22 <ttuttle> It has scp!
Nov 13 18:27:33 <RyeBrye> yeah, it has dropbear client scp
Nov 13 18:27:36 <ionstorm> tried to play this lol http://s172833490.onlinehome.us/__oneclick_uploads/2008/11/rolling.gif didnt work
Nov 13 18:28:09 <Impossible> andatche, still not got yours?
Nov 13 18:28:13 <andatche> nope
Nov 13 18:28:45 <RyeBrye> From what I hear, the "attach pictures only" thing was a requirement handed down to the people who wrote the email app - but the person who said that said they weren't able to see where the requirement came from (i.e. if T-mobile dictated it or not)
Nov 13 18:28:54 <Impossible> i know my friend who also has a g1 hasnt had theres yet
Nov 13 18:29:19 <RyeBrye> However, it wasn't clear if you were to write a file picker that SAYS it is returning images but really returns any file how that would work in connection with the email attachment thing
Nov 13 18:29:23 <andatche> any idea how the batches for those that receive updates are decidced?
Nov 13 18:29:36 <RyeBrye> andatche - a 200,000 sided die, I believe
Nov 13 18:29:46 <andatche> lol
Nov 13 18:29:56 <ttuttle> Anyone know where the ssh binary is?
Nov 13 18:30:20 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - the ssh or scp? in the normal builds I'm not sure if it gets put on it
Nov 13 18:30:25 <ttuttle> ssh.
Nov 13 18:30:31 <Impossible> lol, no idea but i think RyeBrye has some inside info ;P
Nov 13 18:30:34 <manikz> why not manually install the update if you want it so bad?
Nov 13 18:30:54 <Impossible> manikz, is there a downloadable link avalible already?
Nov 13 18:31:12 * RyeBrye is not a google person and has no inside info - except he did see a semi-truck with a very large item with numbers on every face driving on the freeway
Nov 13 18:31:13 <andatche> nope
Nov 13 18:31:52 <andatche> no one has found a downloadable version of RC8 from what I can tell
Nov 13 18:32:10 <Impossible> andatche afaik, thats correct
Nov 13 18:32:16 <RyeBrye> Is this the bluetooth stack that the G1 is using: http://www.bluetooth.org/tpg/QLI_viewQDL.cfm?qid=14524 ?
Nov 13 18:32:22 <andyross> What's RC8?  Is that a UK version?
Nov 13 18:32:26 <andatche> yes
Nov 13 18:32:36 <andatche> the uk phones have a different branch of android
Nov 13 18:32:40 <Impossible> i did ask earlier where the links were found on here.. http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=OTA_Updates
Nov 13 18:32:45 <Impossible> didnt get any responce
Nov 13 18:32:47 <blaug1> scheduling automatic adding has been harder than i could imagine blah
Nov 13 18:32:58 <Impossible> andyross: rc8 = rc30 apparently
Nov 13 18:33:05 <RyeBrye> Impossible - at least one was found via logcat - some of the others were through black magic is all I can assume
Nov 13 18:33:21 <RyeBrye> (for instance, the RC30 full update - since I don't know of any phone that had that pushed to it)
Nov 13 18:33:38 <manikz> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Forcing_OTA_Updates
Nov 13 18:33:47 <andatche> they seem to be a bit slow at pushing the updates out
Nov 13 18:33:51 * ttuttle had to move ssh from /system/xbin/ to /system/bin/ for scp to be able to find it.
Nov 13 18:34:24 <Impossible> roger, RyeBrye
Nov 13 18:34:39 <andyross> RyeBrye: the bluez API is defined in /usr/include/net/bluetooth.h.  I don't know what the underlying driver is, but I do note that android seems to be using it.
Nov 13 18:35:30 <RyeBrye> andyross - Yeah, I do see that - but I was just poking on the bluez site and saw the link for the "HTC BlueZ Host Stack" and followed it there - since the date is August 08, It would seem that the bluez on the android device matches what is listed there
Nov 13 18:35:36 <andyross> It's just a socket variant.  e.g. instead of AF_INET or AF_UNIX you use AF_BLUETOOTH.  There are some sockopts (or ioctls?) for the insane L2CAP/RFCOMM layering, etc...
Nov 13 18:35:46 <andatche> how hard can it be to push out a 4MB file to a few hundred thousand people :)
Nov 13 18:36:19 <andyross> For google?  They do that every few milliseconds.  If anyone has a problem with it, it's T-Mobile.  The servers won't sweat it.
Nov 13 18:36:36 <andyross> The R29 update was something like 64M I think.
Nov 13 18:36:41 <RyeBrye> 44.7 IIRC
Nov 13 18:36:46 <andatche> afaik it is google who's responsible for pushing the files out, not tmobile
Nov 13 18:36:54 <andatche> andyross: that's the full thing, not just the patch
Nov 13 18:37:08 <andyross> There wasn't an R29 patch, AFAIK.
Nov 13 18:37:28 <andatche> and either way, that still isn't exactly huge
Nov 13 18:37:34 <manikz> does anybody know where i can find the logs mentioned in the subject?
Nov 13 18:37:43 <andatche> I can see why they are pushing it out in batches, but why such a massive delay between them
Nov 13 18:39:00 <andyross> Ask not the whyfors of the network administrator.
Nov 13 18:39:34 <andatche> it's just a bit annoying, and if this is going to continue to be the case, it will only get worse as more and more handsets are in use
Nov 13 18:40:07 <RyeBrye> Is there going to be a way to build the wifi kernel module as part of the open source build?
Nov 13 18:40:27 <manikz> i get asked about 20 times a day if i want the update...
Nov 13 18:42:20 <andatche> it also seems that Gtalk has stopped working :(
Nov 13 18:42:26 <andatche> over both wifi and 3g/gprs
Nov 13 18:42:34 <jasta> hmm, i'm up for a salary adjustment / review...
Nov 13 18:42:55 <jasta> i'm thinking about trying to fight for a permanent increase in paid vacation, instead of a raise
Nov 13 18:43:00 <jasta> i wonder if they'll go for it
Nov 13 18:43:33 <manikz> Gtalk and a2dp profile both died
Nov 13 18:43:46 * jasta tries anyway
Nov 13 18:43:58 <andatche> manikz: they stopped for you on RC7?
Nov 13 18:44:11 <andatche> maybe the update will fix them again, I hope so, I used GTalk quite a bit
Nov 13 18:44:22 <manikz> they were just the bait to get you to buy a g1
Nov 13 18:44:27 <andatche> I don't think it's tmo blocking it though, as the problem is the same on wifi
Nov 13 18:44:46 <RyeBrye> gtalk breaks if you block the androids.client.google.com in your host file or move the cacerts
Nov 13 18:44:59 <andatche> I haven't done either
Nov 13 18:45:09 <RyeBrye> oh, then in your case, you are just unlucky :)
Nov 13 18:45:56 <`vip> wonder if someone will make a Calendar widget, similar to rainlendar for windows :l
Nov 13 18:46:11 <blaug1> anyone know how to check out my databases in the emulator>
Nov 13 18:46:16 <andatche> `vip: afaik users can't write widgets yet
Nov 13 18:46:36 <`vip> yeah
Nov 13 18:46:44 <`vip> no sdk for widgets atm :/
Nov 13 18:46:58 <andyross> blaug1: Check out?  Can't you just adb pull them and look at them with sqlite on the host?
Nov 13 18:47:38 <kRutOn> blaug1: you can run sqlite3 on the emulator.. sqlite3 /data/data/org.example/databases/mydatabase
Nov 13 18:47:44 <kRutOn> blaug1: then .dump tablename
Nov 13 18:48:09 <blaug1> ahh ok thats what i wanst sure
Nov 13 18:48:14 <blaug1> thanks
Nov 13 18:49:58 <blaug1> hmm doesnt seem to be work
Nov 13 18:50:03 <RyeBrye> strange... my G1 isn't sending SMSes out...
Nov 13 18:50:10 <blaug1> does the emulator need to be off?
Nov 13 18:50:23 <RyeBrye> every time I try it just says "SMS not sent"  and gives me a triangle notfication... (rebooting)
Nov 13 18:51:30 <Impossible> andatche: my google IM still isnt working... apps from the market aint downloading very good either
Nov 13 18:51:41 <blaug1> getting unable to open database file
Nov 13 18:53:00 <Smoke777Screen> Hi everyone
Nov 13 18:56:24 <blaug1> dur remote shell
Nov 13 18:56:29 <spikebike> RC29 also fixed a problem that could let someone bypass Android's locking mechanism by booting the phone into safe mode.
Nov 13 18:56:35 * spikebike wonders what exactly that means
Nov 13 18:56:55 <jbq> spikebike: it means that you wouldn't want to be stuck with an older build.
Nov 13 18:57:02 <jbq> (ditto for RC30)
Nov 13 18:57:05 <DarkriftX> hola everyone
Nov 13 18:57:55 <Smoke777Screen> Was wondering if I need to call something after calling someLinearLayout.setBackgroundColor()?
Nov 13 18:58:15 <spikebike> oh the screen lock.
Nov 13 18:58:39 <romainguy_> Smoke777Screen: invalidate() probably
Nov 13 18:59:19 <jasta> setBackgroundColor i think does that.
Nov 13 18:59:32 <romainguy_> I'd be surprised if it didn't
Nov 13 18:59:50 <Smoke777Screen> because it's just going blank
Nov 13 18:59:58 <jasta> Smoke777Screen: then stop setting it blank.
Nov 13 18:59:58 <romainguy_> yeah it does
Nov 13 19:00:08 <jasta> Smoke777Screen: the colors, btw, are AARRGGBB
Nov 13 19:01:09 <Smoke777Screen> chaniging the txt of a TextView is updated automatically so I'm not sure if I do need to call an updater method
Nov 13 19:02:08 <Smoke777Screen> :) I'm trying to set it to color red: <color name="red">#ff0000</color>
Nov 13 19:03:25 <Smoke777Screen> the color works if I add it as an attribute in the XML file but not when using the method setBackgroundColor
Nov 13 19:07:36 <manikz> How can I send files via USB to G1 from a linux platform
Nov 13 19:07:54 <manikz> I plug in the phone and nothing shows up
Nov 13 19:08:39 <blaug1> did u turn on usb mounting
Nov 13 19:09:59 <andyross> Yes, check "Applications -> Development -> USB debugging" in the phone settings.  Then make sure your adb permissions are correct (see docs, or just run it as root).  Then just "adb push <src> <dst>"
Nov 13 19:10:36 <manikz> Yea I did turn on usb mounting
Nov 13 19:10:56 <andyross> Oh, you just meant how to get to the sdcard as a usb storage device. :)
Nov 13 19:11:03 <manikz> yea
Nov 13 19:11:22 <Smoke777Screen> romainguy_  invalidate() doesn't work and neither does postinvalidate()
Nov 13 19:11:23 <andyross> On R29 and later, it will prompt you when you plug it in via a notification.  Select "mount".
Nov 13 19:11:27 <manikz> thanks for clarifying
Nov 13 19:12:29 <manikz> I see no such prompt =(
Nov 13 19:12:42 <bricode> Is there a fix for the key length in LocationManager? Error is:  java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: key.length > 31
Nov 13 19:12:53 <andyross> Try a different cable?
Nov 13 19:13:45 <manikz> hmm...that would be sheisty of T-Mobile to send me a non working cable with my G1
Nov 13 19:14:10 <wastrel> caller couldn't hear me
Nov 13 19:14:25 <wastrel> the phone is better than my old one but the voice service is decidedly not
Nov 13 19:14:47 <andyross> Try a different port on the host then?  There aren't any software tricks to getting usb storage to work.
Nov 13 19:15:02 <manikz> ok
Nov 13 19:17:02 <Smoke777Screen> jasta  How was a Drawable and a Color differ if they both use the same hex values?
Nov 13 19:24:07 <andyross> Dumb G1 question: is anyone aware of a splitter cable or whatnot that exposes both a 3.5mm headphone jack and a usb port?
Nov 13 19:24:37 <Damm> isn't there a USB to 3.5mm adapter out?
Nov 13 19:24:44 <mikez5> andyross: you can get something like that on amazon for $4
Nov 13 19:25:06 <andyross> Damm: Yes, but if you use it, you lose your usb port.  mikez5: have a link?  I tried searching but don't know the right jargon.
Nov 13 19:25:17 <mikez5> looking...
Nov 13 19:25:44 <Damm> i guess you could put one of those cheap USB hubs on it
Nov 13 19:25:56 <mikez5> http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Stereo-Adapter-T-Mobile-Diamond/dp/B0011WDLES/ref=pd_cp_misc_1?pf_rd_p=413863501&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000UHY6XU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1H2S9MME0PH0JZKH7EDA
Nov 13 19:25:58 <Damm> mini-usb to hub, to 3.5mm adapter + whateve
Nov 13 19:26:26 <Damm> nice
Nov 13 19:26:43 <mikez5> Stuff for TMobile Dash usually works.  But there are some that have problems with spurious button events.
Nov 13 19:26:57 <andyross> mikez5: That's great, thanks.  Although this one is splitting it out at the host port side, not the phone, which is kinda odd.  But whatever, that's what I wanted.
Nov 13 19:27:30 <andyross> (the use case here is that my laptop's headphone jack is getting old and starting to short)
Nov 13 19:28:19 <mikez5> I'm not sure how you would use that with a laptop.  That will only plug into an HTC phone.
Nov 13 19:29:09 <andyross> No, I want to use the phone as my audio device, but still leave it cabled to my laptop via usb :)
Nov 13 19:29:29 <mikez5> Yup, that will work.
Nov 13 19:42:34 <KNY> is there really anything that you can do with the G1 by pairing it to your computer via bluetooth?
Nov 13 19:42:47 <ttuttle> KNY: Not yet.
Nov 13 19:42:52 <KNY> ttuttle, that's what I thought
Nov 13 19:43:00 <ttuttle> KNY: (Unless your computer can act as a Bluetooth headset.)
Nov 13 19:43:16 <KNY> ttuttle, :) Seems that would be a bit pointless
Nov 13 19:44:45 <Ro9u3Dr0id> whats all the talk about
Nov 13 19:44:53 <KNY> bluetooth
Nov 13 19:45:56 <Ro9u3Dr0id> is the droid bluetooth chat capale?
Nov 13 19:46:39 <KNY> what is bluetooth chat?
Nov 13 19:46:51 <andatche> exactly what it says on the tin :)
Nov 13 19:47:42 <Ro9u3Dr0id> just using bluetooth to chat with people within your area
Nov 13 19:47:43 <Ro9u3Dr0id> lol
Nov 13 19:47:47 <SplasPood> re tethering, I'm liking the iptables wifi adhoc method the best so far
Nov 13 19:48:41 <Ro9u3Dr0id> i need to figure out how to set that up
Nov 13 19:48:55 <Ro9u3Dr0id> i hear the speeds are fast
Nov 13 19:49:34 <SplasPood> Ro9u3Dr0id: yea it seems quite usable
Nov 13 19:49:48 <SplasPood> Ro9u3Dr0id: I polished up the script a bit, but I see someone posted a similar one to the thread
Nov 13 19:49:57 <KNY> newegg has a 4GB micro SDHC card for $9.49 today with free shipping if anyone is looking for a new one
Nov 13 19:50:29 <andyross> Splurged for a 16G card from an ebay seller.  Pricier per byte, but worth it. :)
Nov 13 19:50:54 <KNY> andyross, I just ordered an 8GB from newegg the other day. $22.99 with free shipping
Nov 13 19:51:02 <Ro9u3Dr0id> i havent really had the time to play with the g1 id like
Nov 13 19:51:04 <elad> so tethering is possible?
Nov 13 19:51:27 <Ro9u3Dr0id> boy is it..
Nov 13 19:51:38 <Ro9u3Dr0id> frys has the 1 gig for free after rebate
Nov 13 19:52:37 <Ro9u3Dr0id> $5.00 instores but free after rebate
Nov 13 19:52:56 <Ro9u3Dr0id> anyone with root user access
Nov 13 19:58:38 <R0gu3DroId> anyone with root access on their droid
Nov 13 20:05:29 <AnDrOidI> whats up everyone
Nov 13 20:05:57 <Dougie187> why do you keep leaving and coming back with different names?
Nov 13 20:07:16 <AnDrOidI> for some reason my browser was acting up
Nov 13 20:07:29 <AnDrOidI> sending back and for
Nov 13 20:07:34 <Dougie187> bust
Nov 13 20:08:07 <AnDrOidI> what u mean
Nov 13 20:08:15 <Dougie187> nothing. don't worry about it.
Nov 13 20:12:02 <AnDrOidI> anyone figure any good tweaks out?
Nov 13 20:14:17 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 13 20:16:31 <SplasPood> elad: not in the normal way (whatever that is) but you can either use the phone as a socks proxy via USB, or you can use it as an adhoc wifi NAT router and connect to 3G via wifi across from your laptop
Nov 13 20:16:37 <SplasPood> elad: I prefer the latter
Nov 13 20:16:39 <thesquib> Does the android API have some method for bitmaps that is comparable to the MIDP graphics.drawRegion?
Nov 13 20:17:31 <kRutOn> thesquib: I don't know what that is, but you can clipRect a Bitmap, I believe
Nov 13 20:17:44 <kRutOn> thesquib: sounds like what you want?
Nov 13 20:18:00 <thesquib> hmm, that might be the way to go
Nov 13 20:18:29 <thesquib> It just needs to be efficient - i'll try it out
Nov 13 20:19:21 <elad> SplasPood: is there a howto for the latter step?
Nov 13 20:19:39 <elad> I'm a bit of a networking nubby
Nov 13 20:19:45 <SplasPood> elad: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444004
Nov 13 20:19:48 <kRutOn> thesquib: Make sure you use Region.Op.REPLACE as well
Nov 13 20:19:57 <SplasPood> elad: check through the whole thread, there is a more polished script towards the end
Nov 13 20:20:13 <kRutOn> thesquib: when you use clipRect
Nov 13 20:20:38 <elad> aww
Nov 13 20:20:38 <elad> dam
Nov 13 20:20:43 <elad> need to be root?
Nov 13 20:20:47 <thesquib> The reason I want to do it, is because a sprite is essentially one image with X number of frames in it.. I just want a nice way to deal with sprites in the android framework
Nov 13 20:20:56 <thesquib> kRutOn: thanks i'll look at that
Nov 13 20:20:58 <elad> and I just updated to rc30
Nov 13 20:21:00 <elad> ;/
Nov 13 20:21:14 <kRutOn> thesquib: check out this guy's post http://jtomlinson.blogspot.com/2008/10/clipping.html
Nov 13 20:21:29 <kRutOn> thesquib: He has the same background and problem you do
Nov 13 20:24:44 <SplasPood> elad: oh.. yea :(
Nov 13 20:25:03 <SplasPood> elad: the former option can be used without root
Nov 13 20:34:59 <mib_atw745> anyone ever figure out how to install apps to the sdcard
Nov 13 20:37:52 <andyross> You can't install apps there directly.  Someone was talking somewhere about writing a stub activity that used a classloader to pull stuff from external storage, though.  I forget the details, or if it worked or was just an idea.
Nov 13 20:39:07 <mib_atw745> thanks
Nov 13 20:39:15 <kRutOn> speaking of things not working.. how the heck is adb ppp used
Nov 13 20:40:32 <thoraxe> any vpn clients yet?
Nov 13 20:40:33 <thoraxe> hehe
Nov 13 20:40:47 <mib_atw745> whats the command to scroll up
Nov 13 20:41:33 <thoraxe> thesquib: are you trying to write river city ransom for android?
Nov 13 20:44:28 <thoraxe> (i wonder if anyone knows what my cryptic river city ransom reference is about)
Nov 13 20:44:40 <vol> I assumed you meant the game
Nov 13 20:44:53 <romainguy_> it'd better be the game
Nov 13 20:45:53 <jasta> *bored*
Nov 13 20:46:20 <mib_atw745> lol
Nov 13 20:46:28 <kRutOn> thoraxe: I don't know; is there a boss named The Squib in it?
Nov 13 20:47:09 <kRutOn> I haven't played that game since the late 80's or something..
Nov 13 20:47:40 <mib_atw745> u mean back when the nes was popular
Nov 13 20:47:42 <mib_atw745> lol
Nov 13 20:47:53 <thoraxe> ahahahah yay
Nov 13 20:48:05 <thoraxe> river city ransom is up there with kings of the beach in awesomeness
Nov 13 20:48:10 <jasta> id like to see a scummvm written for android
Nov 13 20:48:16 <kRutOn> yeah, sometimes when your G1 messes up, you need to pull the SD card out, blow into it, and reinsert the SD card.
Nov 13 20:48:18 <jasta> so i can play monkey island
Nov 13 20:48:30 <romainguy_> and sam n' max
Nov 13 20:48:48 <romainguy_> there's an iPhone version it seems
Nov 13 20:48:56 <jasta> wm too
Nov 13 20:49:01 <romainguy_> yeah I used that one
Nov 13 20:49:04 <jasta> theres an open source impl of it
Nov 13 20:49:06 * kRutOn . o O ( ScummVM ported to Android. In other news, productivity in the Android team has taken a nosedive... )
Nov 13 20:49:21 <jasta> android wouild be a good fit with touch keys etc
Nov 13 20:49:31 <kRutOn> yeah, ScummVM is up there with Z-machine in must-port-to-new-platforms now
Nov 13 20:49:59 <Terdhex> does anybody know how to log into G1's  console as a root?
Nov 13 20:50:20 <jasta> google around, youll figure it out
Nov 13 20:50:29 <romainguy_> http://java-emu.emuunlim.com/projects.html
Nov 13 20:50:55 <kRutOn> romainguy_: hah
Nov 13 20:50:56 <jasta> umdk1d3: identify links and make them clickable in connectbot
Nov 13 20:51:30 <kRutOn> jasta: that's too hard. I'll punt :-)
Nov 13 20:51:44 <mib_atw745> has anyone seen any widget downloads for the g1
Nov 13 20:52:03 <jasta> hardly.  gnome terminal does it.
Nov 13 20:52:52 <kRutOn> jasta: I'm rewriting the terminal emulator part and it will be part of that
Nov 13 20:52:54 <mib_atw745> what version of linux is good for a beginner
Nov 13 20:53:01 <raidfive> is it possible to put icon next to each list item created through AlertDialog.Builder.setItems() ?
Nov 13 20:54:18 <jasta> dialogs are pretty arbitrary.  if alertdialog cant do it, you still could
Nov 13 20:55:04 <kRutOn> jasta: the terminal is a bitmap
Nov 13 20:55:45 <jasta> so?  you still have a char based canvas you map to
Nov 13 20:55:51 <jasta> to interpret clicks
Nov 13 21:01:35 <kRutOn> hm, heap display isn't fine-grain enough
Nov 13 21:03:59 <bmunger__> mib_atw745: ubuntu or kubuntu
Nov 13 21:04:39 <vol> mib_atw745: go with ubuntu (or kubuntu)
Nov 13 21:04:47 <vol> it is probably the most beginner friendly distro
Nov 13 21:07:06 <wastrel> i have ubuntu
Nov 13 21:08:08 <sfuentes> what about goobuntu :)
Nov 13 21:08:21 <wastrel> that is neither google nor ubuntu
Nov 13 21:08:23 <wastrel> discuss
Nov 13 21:08:39 <spikebike> mib_atw745: were you the one that upgraded to the official rc30?
Nov 13 21:08:46 <wastrel> i did
Nov 13 21:08:49 <wastrel> (also)
Nov 13 21:08:56 <kRutOn> wastrel: I got my coffee.. let's twalk
Nov 13 21:09:08 <spikebike> mib btw, ubuntu is quite nice for advanced users as well
Nov 13 21:11:46 <DarkriftX> ooooh, the desktop version of android could be called goobuntu lol
Nov 13 21:11:49 <vol> ...
Nov 13 21:11:50 <vol> what
Nov 13 21:11:54 <vol> there's no cp on the emulator
Nov 13 21:11:56 <vol> ..... seriously?
Nov 13 21:12:02 <DarkriftX> there is no cp anywhere
Nov 13 21:12:08 <kRutOn> vol: cat x > y
Nov 13 21:12:08 <vol> ...
Nov 13 21:12:09 <DarkriftX> install busybox and symlink it
Nov 13 21:12:13 <DarkriftX> or cat, or dd
Nov 13 21:12:26 <vol> well, I want to cp -r :\
Nov 13 21:12:32 <DarkriftX> ouch
Nov 13 21:12:40 <sfuentes> DarkriftX: i'm sure google has a custom linux desktop internally
Nov 13 21:12:41 <vol> dd = digital dongs
Nov 13 21:12:47 <DarkriftX> busybox cp -s busybox cp
Nov 13 21:12:48 <wastrel> i believe they use ubuntu
Nov 13 21:12:59 <DarkriftX> erm, oops :S
Nov 13 21:13:03 <vol> ...
Nov 13 21:13:39 <DarkriftX> dd if=inputfile of=outputfile
Nov 13 21:13:59 <vol> alright, is there a bin of busybox for the emulator, or am I going to have to figure out how to build it myself
Nov 13 21:14:39 <DarkriftX> yes there is
Nov 13 21:14:42 <DarkriftX> check my wiki
Nov 13 21:14:44 <DarkriftX> android-dls.com/wiki
Nov 13 21:15:13 <vol> DarkriftX: fantastic
Nov 13 21:15:19 <DarkriftX> :)
Nov 13 21:15:58 <vol> wait, what is this .xxx funny business
Nov 13 21:16:14 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 13 21:16:21 <DarkriftX> android browser doesnt like lots of extensions
Nov 13 21:16:38 <DarkriftX> that makes it so you can download it on a g1 without using a desktop pc
Nov 13 21:16:51 <vol> alright
Nov 13 21:17:03 <DarkriftX> .zip will not download, so i rename tbhose to .xxx (and some others also)
Nov 13 21:17:15 <DarkriftX> there is a page about that too lol
Nov 13 21:20:05 <savid> Is it possible to block a phone number in android?  Just got a call from one of those annoying car insurance things
Nov 13 21:20:16 <mib_atw745> how do u scroll up in this chat
Nov 13 21:20:36 <savid> mib_atw745, um, that kinda depends on what client you're using
Nov 13 21:20:46 <Disconnect> damnit wrong window.
Nov 13 21:20:50 <DarkriftX> hes using mibbit
Nov 13 21:21:01 <Disconnect> yah i'm thinking /ignore mib_*
Nov 13 21:21:32 <mib_atw745> mib
Nov 13 21:21:36 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 13 21:21:38 <spikebike> savid I think there's a send directly to voice mail, but not directly to /dev/null
Nov 13 21:21:41 <spikebike> (yet)
Nov 13 21:21:47 <DarkriftX> Disconnect, the mibbit is the best way for g1 users to use irc
Nov 13 21:22:09 <savid> haha  .. that'd be hilarious if they actually called it /dev/null
Nov 13 21:22:13 <Disconnect> ssh and irssi (or b'x) is the best way for g1 users to use irc.
Nov 13 21:22:19 <mmarker> that would be a nice feature. better is forward the call to a earpiercing sound.
Nov 13 21:22:20 <DarkriftX2> mib_atw745: i have a scrollbar here on teh right side in mibbit
Nov 13 21:22:23 <vol> DarkriftX: I <3 You
Nov 13 21:22:31 <DarkriftX2> lol vol
Nov 13 21:22:56 <mmarker> since getting hung up on never seems to teach anyone. only seems to encourage.
Nov 13 21:23:19 <DarkriftX2> vol keep in mind i didnt put all that stuff in teh wiki, I mostly host it and others help keep it updates
Nov 13 21:23:24 <DarkriftX2> ive done maybe 20% of it if htat
Nov 13 21:24:01 <vol> well, whoever made this
Nov 13 21:24:02 <vol> <3
Nov 13 21:24:52 <mmarker> Its not a bad wiki at all.
Nov 13 21:25:08 <mib_atw745> i have the scroll bar also but not in irc chat on my g1
Nov 13 21:26:07 <mmarker> epic4 in connectbot is okay. not fully working. must be a term issue.
Nov 13 21:28:02 <mmarker> (well, to be pedantic, epic4 in screen in ssh)
Nov 13 21:31:10 <vol> DarkriftX2: Is there a way to make the /system image persist on the emulator, even though it says this isn't possible?
Nov 13 21:32:14 <DarkriftX> i havent found a way, but i havent tried much vol
Nov 13 21:32:22 <vol> ho hum
Nov 13 21:32:25 <DarkriftX> would be nice though
Nov 13 21:32:38 <DarkriftX> i have a list of like 12 commands i paste in to make all my changes
Nov 13 21:32:53 <DarkriftX> remounts, copies busybox, symlinks it to stuff and starts sh
Nov 13 21:33:33 <ozzloy> http://pastie.org/314247 can i get some help installing the modded RC30?
Nov 13 21:34:47 <ozzloy> i have the testkeys recovery image, and i have the modified RC30 update.zip on the sdcard.  it looks like i'm almost there
Nov 13 21:35:08 <DarkriftX> ozzloy, http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Nov 13 21:38:34 <Ro9u3dRoID> back like i never left
Nov 13 21:38:36 <ozzloy> DarkriftX: when i hit "Alt+S" i get the text http://pastie.org/314247
Nov 13 21:39:01 <DarkriftX> odd
Nov 13 21:39:14 <DarkriftX> try once more
Nov 13 21:39:21 <DarkriftX> if oyu get same error, the update file might be corrupted
Nov 13 21:39:25 <spikebike> are you following the directions exactly?
Nov 13 21:39:54 <DarkriftX> its saying the busybox file is corrupted in the update, so probably
Nov 13 21:39:56 <ozzloy> i've done it twice.  i also remounted the sdcard and did diff from the downloaded and the one on the card
Nov 13 21:40:04 <DarkriftX> i c
Nov 13 21:40:18 <ozzloy> i'll try once more.  diff said no differences
Nov 13 21:40:19 <DarkriftX> did you try to redownload?
Nov 13 21:40:20 <spikebike> did you umount the filesystme?
Nov 13 21:40:24 <Ro9u3dRoID> where a good place to start learning linux
Nov 13 21:40:33 <DarkriftX> spikebike, he is in the recovery part
Nov 13 21:40:51 <ozzloy> i did redownload, i did unmount
Nov 13 21:41:02 <DarkriftX> odd
Nov 13 21:41:06 <DarkriftX> not sure what else would cause that
Nov 13 21:41:07 <ozzloy> recovery mode shows "test keys" on second line
Nov 13 21:41:15 <ozzloy> T_T
Nov 13 21:41:16 <spikebike> can you md5sum ecovery_testkeys.img and update.zip?
Nov 13 21:41:28 <ozzloy> sure.  just a sec
Nov 13 21:41:46 <DarkriftX> wont a different filename give a different md5sum?
Nov 13 21:41:51 <spikebike> nope
Nov 13 21:41:51 <ozzloy> no
Nov 13 21:41:52 <DarkriftX> ok
Nov 13 21:41:59 * DarkriftX doesnt use md5 often
Nov 13 21:42:04 <blau> i thought signing an apk prevented someone from making changes to it?
Nov 13 21:42:14 <spikebike> not so sure about naming
Nov 13 21:42:15 <DarkriftX> blau, these are resgined
Nov 13 21:42:20 <spikebike> but not with md5
Nov 13 21:42:28 <spikebike> filenames mean something to java
Nov 13 21:42:48 <blau> oh sorry my question wasnt related to the current convo
Nov 13 21:42:55 <DarkriftX> oh
Nov 13 21:42:59 <DarkriftX> well then yes it does
Nov 13 21:43:20 <blau> so how are apps being cracked
Nov 13 21:44:02 <spikebike> not cracked
Nov 13 21:44:05 <spikebike> just copied and resigned
Nov 13 21:44:14 <spikebike> there's no encryption involved
Nov 13 21:44:20 <ozzloy> 98f61f5c5ee62c1ad1fc541e97609f30 for update
Nov 13 21:44:36 <blau> ok gotcha
Nov 13 21:44:59 <blau> so basically if you tried to install the original file again it would bitch about it not being the same and to uninstall?
Nov 13 21:45:15 <ozzloy> f9cc1955d66a11d5d97b3f9aa545b25d  update.zip interesting
Nov 13 21:45:26 <spikebike> 98f61f5c5ee62c1ad1fc541e97609f30  update.zip
Nov 13 21:45:56 <ozzloy> hold on, retrying
Nov 13 21:46:01 <spikebike> once you upgrade to the modded rc30
Nov 13 21:46:18 <spikebike> the system doesn't have the keys for the offical OTA updates
Nov 13 21:46:22 <spikebike> so the OTA updates won't work
Nov 13 21:46:35 <Ro9u3dRoID> how can u tell if u have updated
Nov 13 21:46:41 <RyeBrye> spikebike - does the recovery verify the official updates if they get dumped into /cache?
Nov 13 21:47:09 <RyeBrye> spikebike - because I think the otakeys.zip are still the OTA keys there, and the downloader verifies those files against those keys before rebooting
Nov 13 21:47:46 <spikebike> my understanding is there is one check using otakeys after download
Nov 13 21:47:54 <spikebike> and a second check when it's actually applied
Nov 13 21:47:54 <Terdhex> where can I download Pterminal?
Nov 13 21:47:58 <spikebike> market
Nov 13 21:48:56 <spikebike> the second check uses keys in the recovery.img (not otakeys)
Nov 13 21:49:35 <ozzloy> aaugh
Nov 13 21:50:02 <ozzloy> forgot to umount, trying once more
Nov 13 21:50:15 <ozzloy> *sigh*
Nov 13 21:51:17 <spikebike> ah looks like pterminal has been pulled
Nov 13 21:51:51 <Chainfire> you kidding right
Nov 13 21:51:57 <spikebike> no
Nov 13 21:52:10 <savid> Search for "Terminal emulator"
Nov 13 21:52:16 <RyeBrye> Terminal emulator = good
Nov 13 21:52:16 <Ro9u3dRoID> i hear there is another one u can use similar to pterm.
Nov 13 21:52:19 <spikebike> ya that finds terminal
Nov 13 21:52:19 <RyeBrye> pterminal = not so great
Nov 13 21:52:21 <spikebike> but not pterminal
Nov 13 21:52:22 <savid> not sure if that's the same prog but works for me
Nov 13 21:52:29 <spikebike> agreed, just noticed pterminal was pulled
Nov 13 21:52:46 <savid> I thought apps weren't "pulled" from market?
Nov 13 21:53:07 <wastrel> you must have missed the headlines before release
Nov 13 21:53:25 <spikebike> author likely did
Nov 13 21:53:32 <RyeBrye> Maybe enough retards marked it as "malicous"
Nov 13 21:53:40 <spikebike> it was useful till something better came out
Nov 13 21:53:49 <RyeBrye> Yeah, but terminal emulator is way better
Nov 13 21:53:57 <savid> I mean if "terminal emulator" is still on there I find it unlikely that pterm was "pulled"
Nov 13 21:54:58 <Chainfire> aye
Nov 13 21:56:21 <ozzloy> ok, it appears as though i can't write update.zip to the card
Nov 13 21:56:51 <ozzloy> which is weird because i've written several gigs of music to the card that play just fine
Nov 13 21:56:58 <spikebike> disk full?
Nov 13 21:57:07 <ozzloy> several gigs left
Nov 13 21:57:10 <ozzloy> T_T
Nov 13 21:57:15 <spikebike> you are using usb mount?
Nov 13 21:57:42 <ozzloy> yes.  through the android
Nov 13 21:57:44 <blau> grrrr
Nov 13 21:58:02 <ozzloy> i have another 8GB microSD, might that work?
Nov 13 21:58:05 <savid> hmm.. I have rc28,  but I'm getting "permission denied" for different commands (eg, "ls /root")..  I thought the terminal was supposed to be root pre-rc30?
Nov 13 21:58:21 <RyeBrye> savid - no, but you have a root shell
Nov 13 21:58:39 <RyeBrye> savid - but you can't ever see the output from that root shell
Nov 13 21:58:39 <ozzloy> savid: from that shell type "telnetd"
Nov 13 21:59:07 <ozzloy> and then type "netstat" and look for a line with "ESTABLISHED"
Nov 13 21:59:22 <ozzloy> then telnet to the IP address on the far left of that line
Nov 13 22:00:15 <savid> ozzloy,   found my ip from netstat,  but when I try to telnet from my pc I get:  telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
Nov 13 22:00:27 <ozzloy> *bam* root shell.  make sure you tell your phone not to turn off while it's plugged in.
Nov 13 22:00:45 <ozzloy> savid: you might be using the wrong IP.  try using a different IP from that line?
Nov 13 22:00:51 <ozzloy> there's only like 2
Nov 13 22:01:31 <ozzloy> spikebike: will an 8GB card be able to do the recovery thing?  is there a limit?
Nov 13 22:01:34 <savid> I'm only seeing 10.0.1.197 and 0.0.0.0
Nov 13 22:01:40 <spikebike> ya, mine's an 8GB
Nov 13 22:01:45 <savid> oh wait
Nov 13 22:01:48 <savid> now it works
Nov 13 22:01:55 <ozzloy> savid: \0/ congrats
Nov 13 22:01:56 <vol> Argh.
Nov 13 22:02:12 <spikebike> savid if you have any tweaks to the docs make them or let me know and I'll do it
Nov 13 22:02:18 <vol> I'm trying to think of a good way to create a new /system mount that's 256M instead of 64M
Nov 13 22:02:18 <spikebike> did we miss anything?
Nov 13 22:02:34 <vol> My newest scheme involves cp -r to the sdcard and then loading that as system-qemu
Nov 13 22:02:37 <savid> spikebike, not sure what I did differently...
Nov 13 22:02:46 <vol> except, I can only mount the damn thing with masks
Nov 13 22:02:51 <vol> so I can't copy permissions....
Nov 13 22:03:01 <spikebike> pebkac hopefully ;-)
Nov 13 22:03:28 <vol> and I don't think I'll be able to mount something made vfat as yaffs2... : (
Nov 13 22:03:49 <ozzloy> is there something obviously dumb about this: cp update-RC30-fullupdate-modified-testkeys-v1.1.zip /media/disk/update.zip
Nov 13 22:04:18 <spikebike> are you sure that's the g1?
Nov 13 22:04:26 <spikebike> and not a sd card or something in a reader?
Nov 13 22:04:27 <ozzloy> followed by: sync;sudo umount /media/disk
Nov 13 22:04:46 <ozzloy> it's the sdcard being read by usb connected to the g1
Nov 13 22:04:57 <spikebike> that's exactly how I did it
Nov 13 22:05:10 <spikebike> flakey card maybe?
Nov 13 22:05:17 <ozzloy> i guess i could take the card out of the g1, and use this little microSD usb thing
Nov 13 22:05:34 <ozzloy> could be flakey card, but it has several gigs of music which i've been listening to for a while
Nov 13 22:05:49 <ozzloy> i have another microSD that i'll try if this doesn't work
Nov 13 22:05:59 <spikebike> ubuntu and that worked for me, I didn't even sync
Nov 13 22:06:15 <spikebike> 98f61f5c5ee62c1ad1fc541e97609f30  update.zip
Nov 13 22:06:21 <spikebike> make sure the original has that checksum
Nov 13 22:08:01 <ozzloy> 98f61f5c5ee62c1ad1fc541e97609f30  update-RC30-fullupdate-modified-testkeys-v1.1.zip
Nov 13 22:10:19 <spikebike> so you are upgraded to rc30?
Nov 13 22:19:03 <DJTachyon> whew.. thank god.  A fully working and functional G1 :)
Nov 13 22:19:26 <jbq> yay
Nov 13 22:19:34 <DJTachyon> yay ind33d
Nov 13 22:19:35 <DJTachyon> :)
Nov 13 22:20:08 * spikebike lusts after a touch HD ... with android of course
Nov 13 22:23:02 <DJTachyon> 6Mbit down, 800kbit up over wifi :P
Nov 13 22:27:17 <DJTachyon> heh came with RC28 on it :P
Nov 13 22:29:18 <remitaylor> is there a way to debug an android app without eclipse.  if i run an app in debug mode, it sits "waiting for debugger" ... is there a basic debugger that comes with the SDK that i can run?
Nov 13 22:29:40 <MIPs> anyone using IRCell?
Nov 13 22:29:50 <wasabi> remitaylor: What would said debugger 'do'?
Nov 13 22:30:10 <romainguy_> remitaylor: you can use jdb
Nov 13 22:30:16 <romainguy_> it's part of the JDK
Nov 13 22:30:30 <romainguy_> you can also use the debugger that comes with any other IDE (IntelliJ, NetBeans...)
Nov 13 22:31:25 <remitaylor> romainguy: thanks.  do i have to do something with ddms (or something else) to connect the debugger to the app or vice-versa?
Nov 13 22:31:41 <romainguy_> remitaylor: ddms has to be running
Nov 13 22:31:57 <romainguy_> when an app is waiting for the debugger, it will be waiting on port 8700 (if DDMS is running)
Nov 13 22:32:46 <Rob-cs> Who here has gotten the RC30 update?
Nov 13 22:33:01 <remitaylor> gotcha.  stupid question ... does ddms run on the device/emulator or on the local/debug machine? *looking at the ddms usage to see what to do*
Nov 13 22:33:10 <remitaylor> Rob-cs: i'm on rc30
Nov 13 22:33:39 <Rob-cs> remitaylor: when you upgraded, did you see four rectangular blocks of different colors for like 20 seconds while you waited?
Nov 13 22:33:46 <Rob-cs> i thought that was pretty odd...
Nov 13 22:34:19 <remitaylor> Rob-cs: don't remember, sorry ... i either didn't watch the update or that didn't happen to me
Nov 13 22:34:34 <Rob-cs> gotchya
Nov 13 22:34:42 <Rob-cs> did anyone else see that?
Nov 13 22:35:24 <Rob-cs> i actually videotaped it if you look 40 seconds into this YouTube:
Nov 13 22:35:24 <Rob-cs> http://www.youtube.com/user/MobileRoar
Nov 13 22:36:01 <xavd> remitaylor: ddms is a local tool that lets you connect debugger to emulators/devices (and provides some other feature useful for debugging)
Nov 13 22:36:55 <remitaylor> xavd: so, i have my app waiting for the debugger.  i have jdb.  i have ddms.  ... what do i do?  :P  (sorry, i'm pretty green re: java)
Nov 13 22:37:25 <vol> remitaylor: use eclipse instead of jdb :P
Nov 13 22:37:35 <vol> the android plugin for eclipse is so amazingly good that it hurts
Nov 13 22:37:39 <xavd> ok, look in the "Device" view of ddms (top left). you should see your device. expand the item to see its running application. look in the 2nd column of your app to see a port number
Nov 13 22:37:47 <xavd> connect jdb to localhost on that port
Nov 13 22:37:53 <remitaylor> vol: why don't i just develop for the iphone instead!  :P  lol ...thanks
Nov 13 22:37:58 <romainguy_> Rob-cs: that's not what you should see :)
Nov 13 22:38:09 <vol> remitaylor: onorous sdk restrictions
Nov 13 22:38:12 <vol> onerous
Nov 13 22:38:34 <vol> anyway, has anyone had any experience using mkyaffs2image to create a larger /data partition for their emulator?
Nov 13 22:38:39 <xavd> remitaylor: vol is kinda right, the Eclipse plugin does all of that automatically. one click to launch emulator, sync app, launch app, connect debugger :)
Nov 13 22:39:11 <remitaylor> xavd: i'm with you with everything except a GUI for ddms.  i don't have ddms running or anything, just the tool.  if i run it without any arguments, it explodes.
Nov 13 22:39:22 <remitaylor> xavd: i know he's right, but we both know that's not the point :D
Nov 13 22:39:37 <xavd> remitaylor: what's the error message on ddms?
Nov 13 22:39:57 <DJTachyon> yeah bubble level works :)
Nov 13 22:40:06 * DJTachyon is excited
Nov 13 22:40:37 <remitaylor> if i just run 'ddms,' it says Error Loading Preferences ... 38:22 E/ddms: java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /home/remi/downloads/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1/tools/lib/libswt-pi-gtk-3232.so: /.../android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1/tools/lib/libswt-pi-gtk-3232.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 (Possible cause: architecture word width mismatch)
Nov 13 22:40:55 <DJTachyon> i cant wait for QuickOffice, VLC, and Turn-by-Turn Directions
Nov 13 22:40:56 <vol> remitaylor: adb ddms
Nov 13 22:41:01 <xavd> remitaylor: k just a sec, got your solution
Nov 13 22:41:04 <DJTachyon> not to mention some emulators ;)
Nov 13 22:41:15 <vol> DJTachyon: what is this?
Nov 13 22:41:23 <DJTachyon> what is what?
Nov 13 22:41:48 <vol> 17:40 < DJTachyon> yeah bubble level works :)
Nov 13 22:41:51 <vol> 17:41 < DJTachyon> i cant wait for QuickOffice, VLC, and Turn-by-Turn Directions
Nov 13 22:41:58 <vol> bubble level?
Nov 13 22:42:05 <DJTachyon> its an app in the android store
Nov 13 22:42:06 <xavd> remitaylor: got to http://archive.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops/R-3.2.2-200702121330/index.php#swt At the bottom, download swt for Linux 64bit
Nov 13 22:42:23 <remitaylor> xavd: yay :) thanks!
Nov 13 22:42:24 <vol> oh, but what's this about VLC and turn by turn directions?
Nov 13 22:42:25 <DJTachyon> it just uses the accelerometers as a bubble level
Nov 13 22:42:30 <vol> ahhh
Nov 13 22:42:32 <vol> that's clever : )
Nov 13 22:42:49 <DJTachyon> VLC is arguably the best open source video player, and I am hoping for a port to android soon
Nov 13 22:42:55 <xavd> remitaylor: then, in your sdk, under <sdk>/tools/lib/ replace the libswt*.so by the ones you donwloaded
Nov 13 22:42:58 <DJTachyon> and an APP that does turn-by-turn GPS directions
Nov 13 22:43:02 <romainguy_> I met one of the VLC guys a few weeks ago
Nov 13 22:43:08 <romainguy_> he was asking me questions about Android :)
Nov 13 22:43:11 <DJTachyon> yeah you said that, I am excited :)
Nov 13 22:43:13 <romainguy_> just saying :p
Nov 13 22:43:18 <vol> DJTachyon: Oh, I thought someone already ported these
Nov 13 22:43:24 <DJTachyon> nope
Nov 13 22:43:26 <DJTachyon> not yet
Nov 13 22:43:43 <DJTachyon> And the quickoffice guys have been working on a port for months
Nov 13 22:43:58 <remitaylor> xavd: awesomeness.  thanks again for the help!  (and for helping without pointing out that there are other ways to debug Android apps, regardless of the fact that, for this particular situation, i need to do it sans the Eclipse plugin  :P)
Nov 13 22:44:18 <romainguy_> good luck with jdb :)
Nov 13 22:44:39 <xavd> remitaylor: I die a little inside everytime someone refuse to use Eclipse, but you're welcome ;)
Nov 13 22:44:56 <DJTachyon> i just got the ESD tables setup that my wife's work was giving away
Nov 13 22:44:59 <DJTachyon> they are 1337 :)(
Nov 13 22:45:03 <romainguy_> xavd: want to see my shiny IntelliJ 8? :)
Nov 13 22:45:31 <xavd> romainguy_: booo! :(
Nov 13 22:45:39 <DJTachyon> man i need to get a job doing Embedded C or HDL for a cell phone company :)
Nov 13 22:46:05 <vol> romainguy_: Hah, I just found Shutter Speed on marketplace : )
Nov 13 22:46:10 <romainguy_> :)
Nov 13 22:46:31 <DJTachyon> what is involved in getting access to tmo hotspots
Nov 13 22:47:08 <DJTachyon> do you have to sign up some how?
Nov 13 22:49:40 <DJTachyon> nothing? :P
Nov 13 22:49:58 <vol> I think it's free for tmobile customers
Nov 13 22:50:20 <Damm> generally is
Nov 13 22:50:22 <DJTachyon> right .. but when you find t-mobile spots it still wants you to log in
Nov 13 22:50:30 <DJTachyon> and i dont have a hotspot account
Nov 13 22:50:45 <fadden> Just run around shouting, "I'm a T-Mobile customer".  The voice recognition software will identify you as a customer and log you in automatically.
Nov 13 22:51:03 <DJTachyon> heh
Nov 13 22:51:09 <spikebike> but only if you are wearing a tmo hat
Nov 13 22:51:22 <fadden> You may have to sing the password, which is "I am a pretty pony".
Nov 13 22:51:47 <vol> hey fadden, have you used mkyaffs2image before?
Nov 13 22:51:51 <fadden> Do this while running in small circles and I think it's safe to say that somebody will be along to help you shortly.
Nov 13 22:51:51 <DJTachyon> how did you know my password?
Nov 13 22:52:14 <fadden> vol: if I have I don't remember doing so
Nov 13 22:52:28 <vol> urgh.
Nov 13 22:52:37 <vol> Do you guys use a 64MB /data mount internally?
Nov 13 22:52:42 <vol> or is there some clever trick for getting 128MB?
Nov 13 22:52:51 <vol> our shared libs compiled with debug are 40MB
Nov 13 22:52:58 <vol> which means that we pretty much run out of space on /data immediately
Nov 13 22:53:24 <fadden> Why are your shared libs bigger than most of the Android system? :-)
Nov 13 22:53:26 <vol> I could try remounting the sdcard without noexec, but I'd really like to have a new /data drive
Nov 13 22:53:34 <vol> like I said, compiled with -g -O0
Nov 13 22:53:36 <vol> so that we can debug
Nov 13 22:53:41 <vol> I got debugging via gdb working btw, thanks again
Nov 13 22:54:11 <vol> compiled with optimizations it's closer to 10M
Nov 13 22:54:24 <fadden> Does mkyaffs2image always produce a 64MB image file?
Nov 13 22:54:31 <djsiegel1> Can I write a polymorphic static method using generics at the method level, or must generics be class-scoped? class A { public static get<A> (A a) { return a; } } ? Sorry, I'm not sure exactly how to phrase the problem.
Nov 13 22:54:39 <vol> it does not appear to have an option for size
Nov 13 22:54:49 <vol> oh nice I generated a 2.2GB file by accident :D
Nov 13 22:54:55 <djsiegel1> Ah, I should have used T for my type variable, sorry.
Nov 13 22:55:11 <fadden> vol: that's one way to get a larger image -- throw lots of stuff on during generation and then delete it
Nov 13 22:55:12 <djsiegel1> class A { public static T get<T> (T t) { return t; } }
Nov 13 22:55:18 <vol> that's what I was thinking
Nov 13 22:55:19 <fadden> But I'm not sure what the emulator does with the image.
Nov 13 22:55:26 <romainguy_> djsiegel1: yes you can
Nov 13 22:55:31 <vol> the biggest issue is that I need to get the default data on there first
Nov 13 22:55:33 <elad> fucking a man
Nov 13 22:55:40 <elad> i hate laptop screens
Nov 13 22:55:46 <djsiegel1> romainguy_, I am having trouble doing it...
Nov 13 22:55:47 <elad> smudges galore
Nov 13 22:55:50 <romainguy_> djsiegel1: the compiler will do type inference based on the parameters and/or the variable in which you assign the return value
Nov 13 22:56:22 <androoid> how do i force a gps update before i use the gps data?
Nov 13 22:56:23 <remitaylor> xavd: btw, didn't work - same error.  ddms might be fubar'd on 64bit linux  :/
Nov 13 22:56:29 <fadden> vol: what's the hitch?
Nov 13 22:56:45 <romainguy_> djsiegel1: the syntax is public static <T> T get(T t)
Nov 13 22:56:51 <vol> fadden: I'm not sure. I need to figure out how to mount the original data image, and the new one, on the same system
Nov 13 22:56:53 <djsiegel1> Oh, interesting.
Nov 13 22:57:03 <vol> I've actually just gotten to this point
Nov 13 22:57:06 <fadden> vol: the data image is generated by the build system
Nov 13 22:57:12 <vol> I spent the last hour scouring the internet to try and get a bin of mkyaffs2image
Nov 13 22:57:16 <xavd> remitaylor: hmm people have mentioned on the groups that it worked. I think there's another solution. gimme a sec
Nov 13 22:57:19 <vol> before I found one generated in the android source :P
Nov 13 22:57:43 <djsiegel1> romainguy_, thanks, I just had my type variables declared in the wrong position, as you pointed out
Nov 13 22:57:52 <djsiegel1> Sorry, new to java :)
Nov 13 22:58:02 <romainguy_> np, generics can sometimes be quite hard to use :)
Nov 13 22:58:17 <djsiegel1> romainguy_: http://paste2.org/p/101133
Nov 13 22:58:32 <romainguy_> :)
Nov 13 22:59:06 <xavd> remitaylor: you could try to install the 32bit libs (i think it's 'ia32-libs' using apt or whatever), but you'd have to revert to the 32bit version of swt
Nov 13 22:59:13 <djsiegel1> romainguy_, I wanted a polymorphic, higher-order function that can help me do async functions with success and error callbacks.
Nov 13 22:59:22 <ozzloy> yeah, looks like my sd card is dead/dying
Nov 13 22:59:25 <xavd> remitaylor: before you do that...
Nov 13 22:59:30 <ozzloy> T_T
Nov 13 22:59:32 * andyross is always amused that Java generics set out from the start to fix all the things that made C++ templates so difficult, and invented almost all the same failure modes. :)
Nov 13 22:59:40 <xavd> remitaylor: did you replace only the .so in sdk/tools/lib or also the swt.jar?
Nov 13 23:00:01 <remitaylor> only the .so
Nov 13 23:00:06 <fadden> andyross: they don't do enough to be anywhere near as broken
Nov 13 23:00:07 <romainguy_> andyross: the goal was not really to fix C++ templates, the problem was backward compatibility
Nov 13 23:00:15 <SanMehat> ozzloy: why do you say your sdcard is dying?
Nov 13 23:00:16 <remitaylor> ( making sure i have ia32-libs )
Nov 13 23:00:35 <romainguy_> and actually Java generics are just fine when you use a generified API
Nov 13 23:00:39 <romainguy_> the problem is writing such an API :))
Nov 13 23:00:53 <andyross> I know.  And I don't hate java generics.  They're just not nearly as easy as they were billed.  But FWIW, djsiegel1: you might be happier writing to the reflection APIs instead, which are the dynamic typing equivalents.
Nov 13 23:00:59 <tretle> http://abock.org/2008/11/13/banshee-14-hits-the-streets-packed-with-awesome/
Nov 13 23:01:05 <xavd> remitaylor: you had the same "wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32" error after putting the 64 bit native swt libraries?
Nov 13 23:01:26 <remitaylor> xavd: iiiiiiinteresting ... i had ia32-libs, but not ia32-libs-gtk ... installed gtk and my error changed ... lemme try something ...
Nov 13 23:01:44 <ozzloy> SanMehat: i was in here earlier complaining that the rc30 update.zip wasn't working for me
Nov 13 23:01:45 <xavd> remitaylor: hmm you might want to revert to the original swt libs then
Nov 13 23:01:51 <ozzloy> turns out the media is dying
Nov 13 23:01:56 <SanMehat> ozzloy: oh.
Nov 13 23:02:12 <SanMehat> ozzloy: what type of card?
Nov 13 23:02:17 <remitaylor> xavd: that's what i'm trying :P
Nov 13 23:02:25 <ozzloy> also turns out if you cp something over, then md5sum it, linux will have a cache of what it thinks is on the disk
Nov 13 23:02:40 <ozzloy> and give the md5sum you want, even if it's not what's actually on disk
Nov 13 23:02:46 <SanMehat> ozzloy: yeah. if you want to drop the page-cache do this:
Nov 13 23:02:50 <kRutOn> vol: Is the emulator not in the git repo?
Nov 13 23:02:52 <SanMehat> echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
Nov 13 23:02:57 <jasta> lol, what the hell
Nov 13 23:02:58 <vol> kRutOn: it is.
Nov 13 23:02:59 <SanMehat> (on any linux box)
Nov 13 23:03:04 <vol> I have and am running the emulator from the repo
Nov 13 23:03:16 <vol> the emulator, however, has 64MB on the /data mount
Nov 13 23:03:20 <vol> and I need a bit more :\
Nov 13 23:03:27 <kRutOn> vol: which package is it in
Nov 13 23:03:28 <ozzloy> SanMehat: will keep that in mind.  in the meantime, using the provided sd card was enough
Nov 13 23:04:03 <kRutOn> nevermind. development.git
Nov 13 23:04:27 <vol> kRutOn: don't point any sort of hard question towards me, I probably can't answer it.
Nov 13 23:04:46 <vol> I know about the android source just enough to compile it with lunch 1, and that was after quite a bit of generous prodding
Nov 13 23:06:10 <jasta> http://androidcommunity.com/orb-coming-to-android-soon-20081106/
Nov 13 23:06:13 <jasta> hehe, you gotta be kidding me?
Nov 13 23:07:03 <jasta> lol, at least one of the commenters pointed out that is my app.
Nov 13 23:07:18 * pawalls laughs...
Nov 13 23:07:36 <jasta> it even says "Five" in the screenshot
Nov 13 23:07:52 <remitaylor> xavd: fail ... i'll search the groups and whatnot later ... gotta get back to my app  :)  thanks for the help!
Nov 13 23:07:57 <xavd> random screenshot is better than no screenshot?
Nov 13 23:08:03 <wasabi> that article sucks.
Nov 13 23:08:08 <xavd> remitaylor: ugh, sorry :(
Nov 13 23:08:13 <wasabi> that secodn paragraph has one sentence of meaning in it
Nov 13 23:08:48 <xavd> remitaylor: we need to have an official linux 64 build of the SDK, hopefully next version
Nov 13 23:08:51 <fadden> vol: external/qemu/android_main.c
Nov 13 23:08:59 <fadden> vol: sprintf(tmp, "userdata,size=0x4200000,file=%s", opts->data);
Nov 13 23:09:11 <fadden> 0x4200000 is ~64MB
Nov 13 23:09:33 <fadden> I'm guessing that boosting that value will give you a larger /data.
Nov 13 23:10:38 <kRutOn> vol: It looks like the emulator binary itself expands the base /data image to 64MB, so my guess is that you have to change it inside that source
Nov 13 23:10:45 <fadden> If you can't rebuild the emulator for Windows, hex-editing the binary might work.
Nov 13 23:10:47 <vol> fadden: :O
Nov 13 23:11:03 <kRutOn> vol: but the place to change it isn't in development.git
Nov 13 23:11:06 <vol> ok, that's a much better plan than anything I was thinking of :P
Nov 13 23:11:40 <remitaylor> xavd: that will be yummy.  i can use Eclipse for my personal debugging til then, but i'll need ddms working one day.  ohhhh well!  thanks
Nov 13 23:11:46 <vol> and hex editing it might well be the very simplest way to do it
Nov 13 23:12:20 <josephcohen> Hi all, I have a strange problem I can not fix. I know that RC28 and higher you should click the usb notification for it to mount as I have been able to do this for a few computers. I have RC30 now and some of those computers no longer display the USB notification though they do show they are charging (from the computer's usb cable). Any ideas? This does not happen on all computers but does happen on 3 out of the 8 I use
Nov 13 23:15:53 <vol> josephcohen: strange, don't know the answer.
Nov 13 23:16:04 <josephcohen> yeah I know
Nov 13 23:16:14 <josephcohen> whats weird is this worked on RC28 before the RC30 update
Nov 13 23:16:47 <josephcohen> The forums are filled with either the "click the usb notification" answer or the "go to the settings -> storage...." answers
Nov 13 23:18:01 <vol> fadden: curses, there's a ton of 0x04200000 in the bin : (
Nov 13 23:18:09 * vol recompiles and grumbles...
Nov 13 23:18:09 <fadden> vol: search for that entire string
Nov 13 23:18:20 <fadden> "userdata,size=..."
Nov 13 23:18:21 <vol> fadden: I was cheating and hexediting emulator
Nov 13 23:18:40 <tripps> is there a way I can have the menu come up whenever I start a phone call? I would like to be able to choose mute/speaker, etc., without having to click menu every time
Nov 13 23:18:42 <fadden> Should be unique unless the compiler is playing games with the string table.
Nov 13 23:19:07 <vol> ah, stupid me, search for the string : P
Nov 13 23:19:39 <fadden> vol: this sort of thing is the only time I use emacs. :-)
Nov 13 23:20:29 <vol> hexediting you mean?
Nov 13 23:20:32 <vol> I just use hexedit
Nov 13 23:21:01 <fadden> The hex editing facilities under Linux aren't so great, e.g. xxd in/out.
Nov 13 23:21:10 <fadden> Maybe there's a really nice hex editor somewhere that I've been missing out on.
Nov 13 23:21:17 <vol> fadden: hexedit :P
Nov 13 23:21:23 <vol> shows hex on one side, ascii on the other
Nov 13 23:21:33 <fadden> Hey, how about that.
Nov 13 23:21:41 <SanMehat> josephcohen: The USB notification icon will only be displayed when the G1 detects a USB initialization sequence from the host computer. If the computer is not sending this for some reason, then the G1 will *not* display the notification. The charging of the G1 is automatic whenever it detects power on the USB so it works differently.
Nov 13 23:21:48 * andyross just uses hexl-mode
Nov 13 23:21:57 <vol> reminds me of spending an hour trying to figure out what the hell the debugger was on a machine, only to find out it was called "debug"
Nov 13 23:22:07 <josephcohen> hmm
Nov 13 23:22:30 <SanMehat> josephcohen: are you perhaps plugging it into a hub which is acting 'strangely'?
Nov 13 23:22:32 <josephcohen> So again, why does some of the Macs that I use allow me to mount it and others don't? Especially since it worked before
Nov 13 23:22:41 <josephcohen> I tried direct
Nov 13 23:22:46 <josephcohen> and with a usb 2.0 hub
Nov 13 23:22:49 <josephcohen> same results
Nov 13 23:23:08 <vol> usb 1.1 vs 2?
Nov 13 23:23:11 <vol> shitty power supply?
Nov 13 23:23:12 <fadden> josephcohen: do you have another USB mass storage device that you can try using the same USB port and/or cable?
Nov 13 23:23:19 <SanMehat> josephcohen: thats a good question.
Nov 13 23:23:25 <Damm> it should just 'work'
Nov 13 23:23:31 <Damm> doesn't matter if your mac, pc, freak or boy
Nov 13 23:23:35 <josephcohen> let me try with a card ready my cube mate has
Nov 13 23:23:43 <SanMehat> damni know.. i'm trying to help him get to the bottom of it.
Nov 13 23:23:48 * vol crosses his fingers and loads the emulator
Nov 13 23:24:06 <Gorak> 'scuse me, are you having problems mounting your G1 to copy files on to it?
Nov 13 23:24:08 <fadden> vol: typing with your fingers crossed is *hard*
Nov 13 23:24:14 <josephcohen> the card reader reads a regular SD card just fine
Nov 13 23:24:29 <josephcohen> yeah I want to mount it to copy my mp3s over to it
Nov 13 23:25:01 <Gorak> Interesting. The reason I've popped on is that since an automatic update earlier today, my G1 has ceased to mount the SD when I connect it to the PC.
Nov 13 23:25:15 <josephcohen> lol same problem
Nov 13 23:25:20 <SanMehat> josephcohen: silly question... could you perhaps try a different cable? if its 'iffy' for any reason, its possible it may work on some hosts and not others.. and the charger would still work.
Nov 13 23:25:29 <josephcohen> sure one sec
Nov 13 23:25:35 <josephcohen> his card reader has the same cable
Nov 13 23:25:41 <SanMehat> ahh.
Nov 13 23:25:44 <Gorak> Just used the same cable with my mp3 player (a cowan iaudio) and that works lovely!
Nov 13 23:25:53 <SanMehat> is it a PC? is perhaps the usb port disabled in the BIOS?
Nov 13 23:26:11 <josephcohen> f***ing A!!!! I had to remove a USB thumb drive and it popped up
Nov 13 23:26:29 <josephcohen> let me put the usb thumb drive back in
Nov 13 23:26:41 <josephcohen> yep notification goes away
Nov 13 23:26:45 <josephcohen> wow
Nov 13 23:27:01 <SanMehat> josephcohen: interesting.. sounds like a controller issue possibly?..
Nov 13 23:27:02 <josephcohen> so I can't plug in a USB thumb drive AND the android at the same time
Nov 13 23:27:05 <orci> Gorak, which update is this? rc30?
Nov 13 23:27:06 <josephcohen> wow
Nov 13 23:27:11 <josephcohen> I'm floored
Nov 13 23:27:18 <jbailey> josephcohen: Might be power limitations getting both up?
Nov 13 23:27:22 <josephcohen> maybe
Nov 13 23:27:25 <SanMehat> josephcohen: could be power issue
Nov 13 23:27:26 <Gorak> Not sure, I assume so.
Nov 13 23:27:27 <josephcohen> I do have a lot of usb devices
Nov 13 23:27:30 <andyross> Definitely a host-side problem.  It's not like there's any way on the USB bus to tell that the host has another storage device connected on a different hub or controll.er
Nov 13 23:27:36 <Gorak> Accidently clicked yes on it tbh
Nov 13 23:27:43 <josephcohen> keyboard, mouse, printer, usb hub, camera, thumb drive and android
Nov 13 23:27:46 <SanMehat> josephcohen: the G1 will pull close to 500 ma off the bus to charge
Nov 13 23:27:54 <jbailey> josephcohen: An interesting test would be to plug that all into a powered hub and see if it solves the problem.
Nov 13 23:28:18 <josephcohen> ok took the camera, printer and hub off
Nov 13 23:28:24 <josephcohen> the thumb drive is still in and no dice
Nov 13 23:28:26 <Gorak> The build number in the phone info says TC5-RC8 actually.
Nov 13 23:28:32 <SanMehat> josephcohen: and 500ma is the maximum allowed for a device... so likely the root hub can't power all of them.
Nov 13 23:28:35 <josephcohen> its a ~7month old imac
Nov 13 23:29:02 <josephcohen> I believe you its not the phone but man
Nov 13 23:29:04 <andyross> I might believe a broken thumb drive answering to read requests it shouldn't?
Nov 13 23:29:05 <SanMehat> josephcohen: you still will likely need a powered hub as jbailey suggested..
Nov 13 23:29:12 <josephcohen> the macs are all USB (with the exception of firewire)
Nov 13 23:29:26 <josephcohen> lol
Nov 13 23:29:31 <SanMehat> andyross: no.. the G1 isn't seeing the USB enumeration requests from the host.. so the BUS is effectively dead other than being able to supply power.
Nov 13 23:29:35 <Ro9uyt3> anyone know if im suppose to mount my g1 with my machine before i try to gain root access
Nov 13 23:29:36 <josephcohen> let me try another thumb drive, last one was a cruzer
Nov 13 23:29:57 <josephcohen> kingston data traveler 8gb same problem
Nov 13 23:30:14 <josephcohen> it must be the imac
Nov 13 23:30:17 <josephcohen> let me try another mac
Nov 13 23:30:22 <josephcohen> we have like 50 in the office here
Nov 13 23:30:40 <josephcohen> brb
Nov 13 23:31:10 <SanMehat> josephcohen: can you msg me with the make, model of your mac *and* the thumb-drive please?
Nov 13 23:31:29 <josephcohen> eek, whats the irc / command for messaging again
Nov 13 23:31:36 <vol> /msg
Nov 13 23:31:36 <josephcohen> haven't done that in a long time
Nov 13 23:31:38 <SanMehat>  /msg <nick> ble ble ble
Nov 13 23:31:46 <SanMehat> /e/a/s
Nov 13 23:31:54 <fadden> Or /query <nick>, and then carry on.
Nov 13 23:32:08 <vol> fadden: Woohoo!
Nov 13 23:32:11 <vol> That worked just fine! :D
Nov 13 23:32:17 <fadden> vol: cool
Nov 13 23:35:43 <djsiegel1> romainguy_: where and when does type inference occur -- I'm not getting any.
Nov 13 23:36:05 <romainguy_> it happens at compile time
Nov 13 23:39:42 <vol> now I just get to rebuild our source tree and see if our shared lib will fit on and load properly now : )
Nov 13 23:40:05 <vol> but first, going home
Nov 13 23:40:10 <josephcohen> ok back
Nov 13 23:40:48 <josephcohen> going to try it out on another mac in a min
Nov 13 23:40:53 <josephcohen> to see if the problem follows
Nov 13 23:51:05 <josephcohen> quick question, is there any chance we can get netfilter/iptables?
Nov 13 23:53:25 <unix_lappy> the chance / liklihood line is a very tricky one.
Nov 13 23:53:38 <unix_lappy> likelihood*
Nov 13 23:54:35 <josephcohen> I can think of a few reasons beyond NAT to it
Nov 13 23:55:09 <josephcohen> for example we have WiFi on there, what protection can we put on there to prevent open ports on the device when I'm NOT at a trusted network, like at a convention?
Nov 13 23:55:23 <josephcohen> for example one day there maybe a remote control app for the phone
Nov 13 23:55:38 <josephcohen> what if its listening for an incoming connection and I want to toggle when to block it
Nov 13 23:55:45 <orci> http://www.piggybackmobile.com/ why is not this on marketplace?
Nov 14 00:01:11 <g1er> looks like their looking to make money with it
Nov 14 00:01:13 <spikebike> orci because it hasn't been tested on a real device?
Nov 14 00:01:50 <g1er> . What payment platform is integrated in Piggyback?
Nov 14 00:01:51 <g1er>     * Good question. We’re not quite satisfied with what’s available on the market right now and we are still thinking about it.
Nov 14 00:03:00 <orci> spikebike, I read this app listed in top 20 cool apps for somebody thought it had a released version somehow
Nov 14 00:03:50 <orci> g1er, I think that payment mechanism is for ride sharers to pay each other
Nov 14 00:04:09 <g1er> ah, makes sense.
Nov 14 00:04:47 <filosofico> hi ... what kind of permission I have to give to an application to be able to read from "/dev/urandom" (for example)? ... thanks
Nov 14 00:08:18 <fadden> filosofico: isn't that world-readable?
Nov 14 00:09:31 <orci> it is world readable on my Ubuntu box at least
Nov 14 00:09:35 <josephcohen> Is there an FAQ that is editable? I found that a lot of mp4s that were converted AVIs that play on an iPhone do NOT play on a G1 (Cinema, Meridian Video Player, Video Player & PlaysVideo)
Nov 14 00:09:56 <josephcohen> correction some were AVIs some were DVD rips
Nov 14 00:10:13 <filosofico> fadden & orci: my simple test program fails with an IO Exception ...
Nov 14 00:10:54 <orci> filosofico, may be not because it cannot read the file but may be because it does not recognize the utf char coming out of the urandom file?
Nov 14 00:11:52 <filosofico> orci: maybe ... I will try with an opaque byte-reader
Nov 14 00:14:22 <sfuentes> anyone remember wasabi systems?
Nov 14 00:14:51 <filosofico> orci: it works ... thanks
Nov 14 00:15:18 <orci> filosofico, no problem, glad it worked
Nov 14 00:18:30 <`vip> http://www.voxmobili.com/phonebook20/features.html
Nov 14 00:18:31 <`vip> i want
Nov 14 00:18:32 <`vip> ;)
Nov 14 00:20:16 <orci> can I backup any applications data without using the application's own tools?
Nov 14 00:27:25 <KNY> Google needs to hook us Google Apps guys up with push email
Nov 14 00:27:35 <KNY> (and girls, I suppose)
Nov 14 00:28:36 <ismarc> so I've got a horribly general question, and I feel kinda dumb for having to ask, but obviously I fail at using the interwebs
Nov 14 00:29:06 <KNY> ismarc, let's hear it
Nov 14 00:29:46 <ismarc> is there a coding style guide available?  I've got my proof of concept done, and I'm preparing to write code that will be submitted for review, and wanna make sure I don't end up having to redo 90% of it (darned C background)
Nov 14 00:29:58 <ismarc> closest I could find was http://source.android.com/submit-patches/code-style-guide
Nov 14 00:30:00 <ismarc> which is blank
Nov 14 00:30:40 <neekers> is there a lint for java?
Nov 14 00:32:18 <KNY> ismarc, you mean for Android code or for apps?
Nov 14 00:32:30 <fadden> For code written in Java, try http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConvTOC.doc.html
Nov 14 00:33:16 <ismarc> KNY: Both, actually.  Android base code and "Android Provided" apps (Email, Calendar, etc.)
Nov 14 00:33:17 <KNY> neekers, lint4j seems to be favored on Google
Nov 14 00:33:25 <sfuentes> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
Nov 14 00:33:45 <KNY> ismarc, I agree with fadden--for Java code, follow the Sun style guide. For C.. well, I'm not sure ;)
Nov 14 00:34:20 <ismarc> KNY: I was thinking about just following the linux kernel guide, but there's I saw a few differences
Nov 14 00:34:28 <fadden> Ugh.
Nov 14 00:34:35 <KNY> ismarc, ask in #android-dev
Nov 14 00:36:37 <sfuentes> anyone able to ssh from g1 to an xp box?
Nov 14 00:37:11 <sfuentes> using connectbot?
Nov 14 00:38:08 * offby1 laughs cruelly
Nov 14 00:38:26 <Gumby`> noe]
Nov 14 00:38:28 <Gumby`> nope
Nov 14 00:38:38 <Gumby`> then again, my windows box doesnt have an ssh service running
Nov 14 00:38:41 <offby1> try using connectbot to a *nix box, and then using regular ssh to the XP box -- narrow down the possibilities.
Nov 14 00:39:53 <sfuentes> offby1: is there something u know that i don't?
Nov 14 00:40:15 <Gumby`> sfuentes: what ssh server does your XP box run?
Nov 14 00:40:18 <sfuentes> or just troubleshooting 101
Nov 14 00:40:46 <ismarc> sfuentes: it's something I like to call "fault isolation"
Nov 14 00:40:52 <offby1> no, I'km just a pessimist
Nov 14 00:41:21 <sfuentes> Gumby: i've tried two ... openssh on cygwin and bitvise winssd
Nov 14 00:41:33 <sfuentes> err winsshd
Nov 14 00:41:33 <romainguy_> ismarc: you plan on submitting a proof of concept?
Nov 14 00:42:56 <sfuentes> romain is the maynn
Nov 14 00:43:15 <ismarc> romainguy: That was actually a process question I was going to ask at another point in time
Nov 14 00:44:12 <ismarc> romainguy: submit clean proof of concept patch vs. framework of functionality and then follow-on patch to implement it all (ie, underlying classes first, each thing in bite-sized chunks) vs. full implementation submitted
Nov 14 00:45:02 <romainguy_> it depends on what part of the system we are talking about
Nov 14 00:45:18 <romainguy_> but if you were to submit a proof of concept for the UI framework, I would refuse it, unless submitted in a safe branch
Nov 14 00:46:13 <ismarc> romainguy: cool, I got used to working with the wine guys a while ago, and it's like a 20 step process for them to even look at what you have
Nov 14 00:46:40 <ismarc> romainguy: prototype it and give proof of concept, then submit framework that does nothing, and so on
Nov 14 00:47:57 <ismarc> outside of the Email app, I'm probably only going to be adding better coverage for unit tests in random locations
Nov 14 00:52:08 <romainguy_> ismarc: please do :)
Nov 14 00:56:59 <ismarc> romainguy: it's the best way to really learn a codebase :)
Nov 14 01:16:14 <androoid> email = c.getString(c.getColumnIndex(People.PRIMARY_EMAIL_ID));    is not returning the email address
Nov 14 01:20:05 <androoid> that is probably wrong
Nov 14 01:34:11 <andatche> haha, RC8 at last
Nov 14 01:36:15 <raidfive> where are the widget classes located in the source?
Nov 14 01:36:23 <g1er> ouch, ya just saw that. now xda's offline?
Nov 14 01:38:16 <romainguy_> raidfive: platform/base
Nov 14 01:39:19 <raidfive> ah, didn't dig deep enough
Nov 14 01:42:12 <raidfive> is it possible to have expandable list items intermixed with non-expandable ones ?
Nov 14 01:42:33 <sodani> I'm using imap e-mail. Can someone tell me how I can move a message to a folder?
Nov 14 01:43:58 <offby1> betcha can't :-|
Nov 14 01:52:22 <thesquib> Has anyone found a way to emulate serviceRepaints? I note that it has been brought up as a "frustration" on the developer group.
Nov 14 01:54:51 <Guest79465> Question:  Does anyone know what "batch" of G1 hardware they're on?  1st = original preorder, 2nd = Nov 12th shipping deadline... I wonder if they fixed the recessed keyboard issue.
Nov 14 01:56:11 <benley> null__: is there anything printed on the inside of the back cover, to the left of where the sim card would go?
Nov 14 01:56:39 <null__> I don't have one yet.  I'm waiting until I hear new G1's that are shipping have fixed the keyboard issue.
Nov 14 01:56:50 <benley> ah.
Nov 14 01:56:55 <benley> what's the keyboard issue?
Nov 14 01:57:07 <null__> left side of the keyboard near the cxsrz keys is recessed
Nov 14 01:57:14 <null__> keys are recessed
Nov 14 01:57:25 <null__> almost flush/flush/below the plastic level
Nov 14 01:57:57 <benley> I think the recent production devices I've seen no longer have that weirdness
Nov 14 01:58:45 <null__> Does yours?
Nov 14 01:59:08 <ide> hello
Nov 14 01:59:10 <null__> hello
Nov 14 01:59:17 <ide> :)
Nov 14 01:59:21 <null__> :)
Nov 14 02:00:01 <ide> I connect first time.
Nov 14 02:00:11 <null__> Welcome!
Nov 14 02:00:25 <ide> thankS ~ :)
Nov 14 02:00:39 <offby1> ide: ah, but are you connecting from your G1? :)
Nov 14 02:00:42 <null__> Do you like pants? :)
Nov 14 02:01:59 <ide> yes.
Nov 14 02:02:07 <null__> I don't :(
Nov 14 02:02:18 <null__> But the police arrest me when i walk around without pants >:(
Nov 14 02:02:33 <ide> :)
Nov 14 02:02:44 <ide> hmmmm.
Nov 14 02:03:24 <offby1> null__: I thihought it was just me
Nov 14 02:03:45 <ide> :)
Nov 14 02:03:47 <null__> no, no, they're all fascist pigs
Nov 14 02:05:00 <ide> :)
Nov 14 02:05:12 <ide> now~ smoking time~~
Nov 14 02:05:26 <null__> it's time to replace you!
Nov 14 02:05:29 <null__> and upgrade to sata!
Nov 14 02:05:39 <AceLan> lol
Nov 14 02:07:51 <null__> AceLan: what's your battery life like
Nov 14 02:08:59 <AceLan> @@?
Nov 14 02:09:03 <null__> your car battery
Nov 14 02:09:17 <null__> does it drain in 1 hour or less when you leave your headlights on?
Nov 14 02:09:27 <null__> i think mine may need replacing, especially since winter is coming
Nov 14 02:09:42 <AceLan> i don't have a car :p
Nov 14 02:09:48 <amitava> me neither
Nov 14 02:10:21 <jbq> A car battery should be able to power headlights for hours...
Nov 14 02:10:40 <null__> my car battery is very old :(
Nov 14 02:10:45 <null__> and it's sealed, so i can't refill it
Nov 14 02:10:50 <null__> i have to spend $80 for a new one
Nov 14 02:20:05 <thesquib> why would a view return a width and height of 0?
Nov 14 02:20:16 <thesquib> I have created it in code, not with xml
Nov 14 02:27:49 <Gamma-X> hello all.
Nov 14 02:36:57 <Zelig_> Anybody doing much with sound?
Nov 14 02:37:30 <d0netsFN> im trying
Nov 14 02:37:33 <d0netsFN> but im so newb
Nov 14 02:37:41 <d0netsFN> im trying to port a java guitar tuner
Nov 14 02:37:48 <d0netsFN> but theres no javax.sound
Nov 14 02:38:00 <d0netsFN> so ive been researching that issue
Nov 14 02:38:25 <Zelig_> I'm wanting to do some (so I thought) very basic sound behaviors:
Nov 14 02:38:31 <Zelig_> I'm doing a toy saber app.
Nov 14 02:38:50 <d0netsFN> thats what i hear, the media api is a little strange
Nov 14 02:38:52 <Zelig_> so you might want to make it emit one of a series of "saber swinging" noises.
Nov 14 02:39:17 <Zelig_> and I can load a resource when I create, but not when I set source.
Nov 14 02:39:33 <Zelig_> ( looking for actual method names...)
Nov 14 02:41:28 <Zelig_> yeah... when I use setDataSource(Context context, Uri uri) I fail.
Nov 14 02:42:03 <d0netsFN> not sure
Nov 14 02:42:06 <Zelig_> so if I want N sounds, I have to init N mediaplayers, and that exhausts resources pretty quickly.
Nov 14 02:42:06 <d0netsFN> like i said im pretty newb
Nov 14 02:42:47 <d0netsFN> i just wanted to do the port as a starting project to learn java
Nov 14 02:42:49 <Zelig_> It aggravates me that you can create() with a resource ID, but you can't setdatasource() with it.  Does that sound like a sane basis for a bug report?
Nov 14 02:43:01 <b0nn> hi
Nov 14 02:43:05 <d0netsFN> have you looked at soundpool
Nov 14 02:43:09 <d0netsFN> i dunno wtf that does
Nov 14 02:43:17 <d0netsFN> but some people were claiming it let them do more things
Nov 14 02:43:19 <Zelig_> Enough to know it's deemed unsupported.
Nov 14 02:43:29 <Zelig_> yeah, I agree.
Nov 14 02:43:31 <d0netsFN> oh
Nov 14 02:43:33 <b0nn> if I use adb shell, is the shell in qemu, or android?
Nov 14 02:43:42 <Zelig_> no clue, sorry.
Nov 14 02:44:08 <Zelig_> I use it through eclipse alone, so I'm kind of insulated from that.
Nov 14 02:48:33 <jbq> the shell behind adb shell runs in android
Nov 14 02:48:46 <jbq> (it works fine on a device too)
Nov 14 02:59:52 <jt436> Zelig_: using multiple mediaplayer isn't that bad
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 14 02:59:57 2008