**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 14 02:59:57 2008
Nov 14 03:06:09 <languish> hmm this OI Update int he Market seems like a good idea. I hope other devs look in to using the intent.
Nov 14 03:11:22 <KNY> languish, ?
Nov 14 03:11:27 <KNY> do you have docs on that?
Nov 14 03:11:47 <languish> No, I just saw it in the Market. It's from the OI (Open Intents?) guys
Nov 14 03:11:50 <KNY> googling "OI Update" gives me a link on syphilis :)
Nov 14 03:11:52 <KNY> ahh
Nov 14 03:12:24 <languish> http://www.openintents.org/en/
Nov 14 03:12:41 <languish> google gave me that :/
Nov 14 03:13:16 <languish> Though I assume getting syphilis is more fun. having syphilis, I guess isn't.
Nov 14 03:14:27 <languish> ahh more info on the oi update http://www.openintents.org/en/node/136
Nov 14 03:14:29 <languish> whee
Nov 14 03:16:05 <languish> hmm, the app I seem to use the most next to e-mail/im and other communication related apps, is the countdown alarm++
Nov 14 03:16:13 <languish> :/
Nov 14 03:27:25 <wasabi> Yeah so. Debian running. What's driving the display like? Touch screen? Keyboard standard input device?
Nov 14 03:30:56 <Bananajam> hi
Nov 14 03:40:42 <neekers> languish: syphilis becomes more fun towards the end as you become delusional
Nov 14 03:41:43 <Gamma-X> anyone have any idea when flash will be on android?
Nov 14 03:44:12 <languish> mMMmMmM deluuuusional....
Nov 14 03:44:27 <languish> oh wait...
Nov 14 03:44:32 <languish> :/
Nov 14 03:46:25 <DJTachyon> beer?
Nov 14 03:47:09 <SanMehat> you buyin?
Nov 14 03:49:07 <spikebike> Gamm-X I wouldn't assum eit will be
Nov 14 03:49:24 <spikebike> after all macromedia's been ignoring more popular platforms for a decade or so
Nov 14 03:49:34 <Gamma-X> true
Nov 14 03:49:48 <Gamma-X> isnt there other flash versions that can be ported over?
Nov 14 03:50:30 <spikebike> dunno if there's a decent one
Nov 14 03:50:41 * savid holds his breath while he runs the h4x0r3d R30 update
Nov 14 03:50:43 <spikebike> maybe the world will switch to Silverlite
Nov 14 03:51:11 <Gamma-X> just sucks knowing ill never be able to watch streaming internet porn on my g1...
Nov 14 03:51:25 <languish> well you'd be wrong
Nov 14 03:51:27 <languish> you can do it now
Nov 14 03:51:37 <savid> Gamma-X,  never?  come on.. have a little faith
Nov 14 03:51:53 <Gamma-X> im trying....
Nov 14 03:52:05 <Gamma-X> languish,  how? lol
Nov 14 03:52:09 <languish> some forum had a list of sites that had adult "tube" content
Nov 14 03:52:23 <languish> but the forum admins removed the thread or links or something
Nov 14 03:52:39 <languish> sites that worked specifically with the G1
Nov 14 03:52:44 <languish> *shrug*
Nov 14 03:52:57 <Gamma-X> hahaha
Nov 14 03:53:21 <Gamma-X> darn
Nov 14 04:12:48 <spikebike> there's already a video player, seems like most of the pieces are there
Nov 14 04:12:58 <spikebike> not to mention new flash supports h.264
Nov 14 04:13:07 <spikebike> so anyone site that uses that shouldn't be hard to get working
Nov 14 04:13:07 <Ro9u3Dr0id> whats going on?
Nov 14 04:18:17 <SoEvoL> Very lively chat room today
Nov 14 04:18:27 <DarkriftX> sup SoEvoL
Nov 14 04:18:36 <SoEvoL> not much, you?
Nov 14 04:18:43 <DarkriftX> ssdd
Nov 14 04:19:09 <DarkriftX> added a new page to the wiki about the modified RC8 for UK
Nov 14 04:19:30 <SoEvoL> I just got my update this morning
Nov 14 04:19:34 <DarkriftX> ooooh
Nov 14 04:19:35 <DarkriftX> im sorry
Nov 14 04:19:42 <SoEvoL> I bit the bullet and downloaded it
Nov 14 04:19:46 <DarkriftX> why?
Nov 14 04:19:51 <DarkriftX> why not use modified and keep root?
Nov 14 04:20:23 <SoEvoL> no idea
Nov 14 04:20:41 <SoEvoL> Im sure I can convert if I need too
Nov 14 04:20:45 <DarkriftX> nope :S
Nov 14 04:20:55 <DarkriftX> your on rc30 now?
Nov 14 04:21:02 <DarkriftX> if so, there is no going back unless you return it
Nov 14 04:21:17 <DarkriftX> and nobody has figured out how to get root on rc30 unless you use a modified rc30 update
Nov 14 04:21:45 <SoEvoL> well I dont need it
Nov 14 04:21:55 <DarkriftX> i guess most dont
Nov 14 04:22:02 <DarkriftX> its just that we dont know what will come next
Nov 14 04:22:07 <SoEvoL> as a tester i should be testing on the most up to date platform
Nov 14 04:22:14 <DarkriftX> never know if something might come out that needs it
Nov 14 04:22:15 <DarkriftX> yeah
Nov 14 04:22:30 <romainguy> SoEvoL: it's as well, at least you won't hesitate to upgrade when we release updates with cool new features and bug fixes :)
Nov 14 04:23:04 <DarkriftX> romainguy, everyone else gets those features, just a day late while the update is modified lol
Nov 14 04:23:24 <DarkriftX> but i do see both of your points
Nov 14 04:23:35 <SoEvoL> I dont mind updating, as long as it doesnt leave security issues
Nov 14 04:28:19 <DarkriftX> yeah
Nov 14 04:28:32 <DarkriftX> my wife keeps loooking at g1 prices on the internet
Nov 14 04:28:38 <DarkriftX> i think she is planning on getting me one lol
Nov 14 04:28:45 <DarkriftX> she thinks she is sneaky
Nov 14 04:28:57 <Leeds> good wife :-)
Nov 14 04:29:05 <DarkriftX> she knows i really want one
Nov 14 04:29:16 <DarkriftX> she keeps saying "you dont need it, you dont use a phone, you just want another computer"
Nov 14 04:29:20 <DarkriftX> which is right
Nov 14 04:29:41 <DarkriftX> i have an axim, 2 nec 900c's a laptop and 4 desktops (the desktops arent in use)
Nov 14 04:30:10 <SoEvoL> indeed
Nov 14 04:30:19 <DarkriftX> she took my wizard with her to the store one day and it got stolen, so ive been without a phone since then
Nov 14 04:30:36 <SoEvoL> I have too many electronics, most of them dinosaurs. Im too hesitant to buy a new pc
Nov 14 04:30:41 <SoEvoL> it gets outdated in months now
Nov 14 04:31:18 <P2E> I wish my replacement g1 would ship =[
Nov 14 04:31:52 <SoEvoL> Anyone noticing there slide screen sagging
Nov 14 04:32:05 <P2E> sagging?
Nov 14 04:32:25 <SoEvoL> when it is in keyboard mode the screen is slightly loose, the arms look like they are already wearing out
Nov 14 04:32:35 <SoEvoL> and i hardly really use my phone
Nov 14 04:32:42 <P2E> I found mine to be pretty rock solid so far
Nov 14 04:33:01 <P2E> especially since I cn't use it as a phone I use it for internet access a bunch
Nov 14 04:33:13 <SoEvoL> it doesnt bother me, just hopefully the screen doesnt fall off
Nov 14 04:33:18 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 14 04:33:27 <P2E> yeah, I don't think it will
Nov 14 04:33:35 <SoEvoL> bad enough tmobile rapes me with that insurance plan
Nov 14 04:33:49 <SoEvoL> then expects me to pay 100+ for the "replacement"
Nov 14 04:34:07 <languish> someone finally posted a cidr calc to the market
Nov 14 04:34:27 <languish> all the network monkeys will be happy
Nov 14 04:35:40 <spikebike> I thinkered with the port scanner
Nov 14 04:36:15 <languish> me too. it's not what I would call accurate
Nov 14 04:36:26 <spikebike> yeah, pretty lame, good idea
Nov 14 04:36:34 <spikebike> I'm a bit confused by their reticense
Nov 14 04:36:36 <ismarc> the port scanner looks promising, I'd much prefer a tcpdump though
Nov 14 04:36:44 <spikebike> OHMIGOD dont' scan too many ports
Nov 14 04:36:57 <spikebike> as if nmap is particularly cpu or ram intensive
Nov 14 04:38:51 <thamaan> Hello, wanted to know where is the doc for app_process and dalvikvm comands that I see on the android emulator?
Nov 14 05:00:10 <Dimath> Hi everyone. Where "busybox ls -l" is looking for names for UIDs? I get "Segmentation fault", but "busybox ls -l -n" works ok. Can anybody help me?
Nov 14 05:00:42 <bert0> If I want to run an update manually, and I am using a sdcard reader what directory do the files go in?
Nov 14 05:00:47 <Dimath> This error appears on files owned by root. I hame root record in /etc/passwd.
Nov 14 05:01:16 <Dimath> benley, just update.zip to the root folder of sdcard
Nov 14 05:01:24 <Dimath> bert0, i mean
Nov 14 05:01:38 <bert0> ok thanks
Nov 14 05:01:45 <Dimath> yw
Nov 14 05:27:44 <thatha> has anyone tried to run the emulator over x11/forwarding ?
Nov 14 05:30:19 <jwelsh> thata: you mean like ssh forwarding? seems to work fine
Nov 14 05:30:41 <Damm> ssh forwarding is super easy
Nov 14 05:31:01 <thatha> Damm: i know, it just ... doesn't work at all, and i'm wondering if it's superslow
Nov 14 05:31:04 <thatha> or just... something's off.
Nov 14 05:31:15 <jwelsh> can you run anything? like xterm?
Nov 14 05:31:22 <thatha> yes...
Nov 14 05:31:32 <thatha> and there are no ... errors or messages showing up
Nov 14 05:31:38 <Damm> X11 on the G1?
Nov 14 05:31:45 <thatha> the emulator
Nov 14 05:31:54 <Damm> ah
Nov 14 05:31:59 <thatha> ssh -Y blah@blah "./emulator -system blah -kernel blah"
Nov 14 05:32:10 <Damm> oh that's gotta suck
Nov 14 05:32:25 <jwelsh> working fine here, but locally, lemme try over a network
Nov 14 05:32:36 <thatha> thanks jwelsh
Nov 14 05:40:06 <jwelsh> thata: well it's taking forever to boot but it is running
Nov 14 05:40:33 <jwelsh> the window first came up after about a second
Nov 14 05:43:47 <jwelsh> if you actually have to do this on a regular basis, you might want to use vnc
Nov 14 05:44:22 <jwelsh> allows completely asyncronous drawing, plus being detachable
Nov 14 06:02:42 <bert0> can I use a regular hosts file and place it in /etc/hosts?
Nov 14 06:03:07 <DarkriftX> yes
Nov 14 06:03:13 <DarkriftX> there is one already
Nov 14 06:03:17 <DarkriftX> just has localhost in it though
Nov 14 06:03:33 <DarkriftX> we tested it by adding google and it works (well, tahts to say the phone basically stop working lol)
Nov 14 06:04:04 <RyeBrye> if I wanted to do a factory reset on my phone, but still be able to recover - (assuming I have root now) - doing busybox tar -cf /sdcard/data /data would back all my /data up, right?
Nov 14 06:04:12 <bert0> well the mvps one should be ok right?
Nov 14 06:04:13 <RyeBrye> I'm just making sure I'm not forgetting something obvious
Nov 14 06:08:41 <DarkriftX> i htink thats right RyeBrye
Nov 14 06:08:55 <DarkriftX> thats how i used to backup my whole os on my nec900c
Nov 14 06:14:06 <bert0> when I try to rename otacerts it won't do it and says it is a read-only file system
Nov 14 06:17:52 <After_Math> ok supposedly there is a way to get root on your G1 by telnet'ing into it after running the telnetd server on the phone. And now I just read supposedly that has been patched with the latest patches. 1) is this true? & 2) is there another way to do so. BECAUSE I have no more free space on my phone and supposedly if you have root access you can change options so that you can install apps and run them off the sd card.
Nov 14 06:18:07 <romainguy> yes, it's true
Nov 14 06:18:11 <After_Math> :(
Nov 14 06:18:11 <romainguy> and yes it's been patched
Nov 14 06:18:19 <geist> yeah, romainguy specifically removed it because he hates freedom
Nov 14 06:18:36 <romainguy> and we know about the lack of storage space, we're thinking hard about it
Nov 14 06:18:39 <After_Math> how else can you use your sd card then?
Nov 14 06:18:55 <romainguy> (and I say think because I don't know anything about it and who may or may not be working on it)
Nov 14 06:19:03 <romainguy> After_Math: you don't, not for now
Nov 14 06:19:10 <After_Math> grr
Nov 14 06:19:13 <After_Math> I mean come on
Nov 14 06:19:17 <Leeds> you use it for things like music for now
Nov 14 06:19:19 <romainguy> we know
Nov 14 06:19:19 <After_Math> they must have known about this
Nov 14 06:19:27 <yakischloba> After_Math: pure negligence
Nov 14 06:19:28 <romainguy> but we didn't have the time to do it properly for 1.0
Nov 14 06:19:33 <Leeds> After_Math: for the record, romainguy is one of 'them'
Nov 14 06:19:35 <After_Math> yakischloba, I'd say...
Nov 14 06:19:37 <romainguy> it's not as simple as it sounds
Nov 14 06:19:45 <yakischloba> After_Math: just another way you're being oppressed.
Nov 14 06:19:49 <After_Math> I see
Nov 14 06:19:55 <After_Math> lol yakischloba
Nov 14 06:19:59 <geist> some of it is htc too, for choosing such a tiny flash
Nov 14 06:20:00 <Leeds> romainguy: really now, what happened to "don't be evil"?
Nov 14 06:20:09 <romainguy> how is that evil?
Nov 14 06:20:10 <After_Math> yakischloba, thanks, and I just got done watching the new ZeitGeist film :P
Nov 14 06:20:11 <geist> and romainguy's failure to convince them otherwise
Nov 14 06:20:35 <yakischloba> After_Math: first no apps on the SD card, now no root. next thing you know you won't have your own house or car and you'll be wearing a uniform
Nov 14 06:20:47 <Leeds> we all know that the google people have TB flash cards in their G3 phones, stuffed full of unreleased apps
Nov 14 06:20:59 <romainguy> oh totally :)
Nov 14 06:21:04 <After_Math> yakischloba, if you are referring to Socialism , I'd rather have that then Capitalism anyday
Nov 14 06:21:06 <romainguy> my dev device shoots laser beams
Nov 14 06:21:13 <After_Math> lol
Nov 14 06:21:17 <geist> and eats other devices for fuel
Nov 14 06:21:20 <Leeds> fricking lasers?
Nov 14 06:21:36 <geist> they roam around the mean streets of mountain view, stealing other people's cell phones and feeding to their G3s
Nov 14 06:21:59 <Leeds> geist: I thought they were powered by micro-piles?
Nov 14 06:22:08 <After_Math> actually I though the other G1's were used as remote servers :P
Nov 14 06:22:11 <geist> they're powered off suffering
Nov 14 06:23:00 <After_Math> I still love my SQUEAKY little G1
Nov 14 06:23:51 <languish> i know 3 different girls that names their g1's squeaky, creaky, and cricky, for the couns it makes
Nov 14 06:23:55 <languish> *sound
Nov 14 06:24:17 <After_Math> haha
Nov 14 06:24:28 <languish> they're very glass half full
Nov 14 06:31:42 <BHSPitMonkey> umdk1d3, did you ever start that project?
Nov 14 06:34:24 <amitava> I want SEX with Android :(
Nov 14 06:35:05 <DarkriftX> sorry amitava android isnt going to be placed on any sexual devices anytime soon
Nov 14 06:35:08 <DarkriftX> you will have to wait
Nov 14 06:35:37 <amitava> err..
Nov 14 06:35:41 <amitava> SE X1
Nov 14 06:35:52 <Leeds> erm
Nov 14 06:36:04 <Leeds> that's the $800 phone, right?
Nov 14 06:36:18 <amitava> Yeah.. LOLTHEYCREZY?
Nov 14 06:36:26 <DarkriftX> ??
Nov 14 06:36:36 <DarkriftX> anyone else understand this guy?
Nov 14 06:36:44 <amitava> 800$ for a freaking phone :O
Nov 14 06:37:07 <DarkriftX> ahh, there we go, english :)
Nov 14 06:37:11 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 14 06:37:22 <amitava> lol
Nov 14 06:38:10 <Leeds> it would be nice to see a concerted effort to get a really good port onto a couple of other devices
Nov 14 06:38:27 <Leeds> slightly more affordable ones, if possible :-)
Nov 14 06:41:17 <DarkriftX> like the axim x51 :)
Nov 14 06:41:40 <Leeds> and not things like Nokia N??? or openmoko... mass market smartphones - hell, most of the winmob devices are made by HTC anyway
Nov 14 06:45:23 <amitava> Among Nokia, HTC and SE Android devices, I'd pick up SE anyday unless thay cost like $800.. HTC kinda screwed up with G1 design :|
Nov 14 06:55:33 <Dimath> Is there IRC client for android?
Nov 14 06:55:40 <Dimath> Except telnet :)
Nov 14 06:56:07 <languish> there are a few in development
Nov 14 06:56:21 <languish> you should see them available soon
Nov 14 06:57:03 <Dimath> great :)
Nov 14 06:57:03 <summatusmentis> lh got someone to write one then? :)
Nov 14 06:58:02 <languish> or people who felt the need to do it, just did it.
Nov 14 07:01:09 <g1er> web-based irc 'chat' works good on the g1... and j2me..
Nov 14 07:06:32 <RyeBrye> if SE does an  android phone, I'm buying
Nov 14 07:15:55 <spikebike> SE?
Nov 14 07:16:07 <romainguy> Sony Ericsson
Nov 14 07:16:14 <spikebike> ah
Nov 14 07:16:34 <spikebike> seems like they will... only nokia seems deadfast against it for now
Nov 14 07:16:37 <spikebike> well and apple
Nov 14 07:17:48 <DarkriftX> we need an Aberry
Nov 14 07:17:55 <DarkriftX> or maybe droidberry
Nov 14 07:20:44 <Neverender1> google might as well officially name the android browser chrome lite or whatever
Nov 14 07:20:49 <Neverender1> people are calling it that anyway
Nov 14 07:21:27 <DarkriftX> what do you expect when they never named it
Nov 14 07:21:34 <RyeBrye> Google might as well name the G1 my bitch, because that's what everone calls it too
Nov 14 07:21:34 <romainguy> it's called Browser :)
Nov 14 07:21:39 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 14 07:22:38 <RyeBrye> anything cool happen today?
Nov 14 07:23:15 <DarkriftX> lol RyeBrye
Nov 14 07:23:36 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 14 07:26:21 <RyeBrye> It is a travesty that PicSay is not #1 on the list of popular applications in the market
Nov 14 07:26:29 <RyeBrye> TWC app is good, but no way it should be #1 over PicSay
Nov 14 07:42:02 <Neverender1> the oi updates app looks interesting
Nov 14 07:49:39 <ismarc> exchange is so retarded.  I do a query for date received, descending order, and what's at the top of the list?  September, because it starts with 9 instead of 1 like october, november and december
Nov 14 07:55:49 <spikebike> heh
Nov 14 08:07:42 <kRutOn_> hi
Nov 14 08:08:49 <RyeBrye> ismark: exchange is a colossal piece of crap
Nov 14 08:10:30 <kRutOn_> I think that took care of that bug...
Nov 14 08:11:16 <DarkriftX> ismarc, thats not an exchange bug, its  a windows bug
Nov 14 08:26:17 <Gumby> a developer in here gave me a URL to an email app that he made that does imap idle and is called exmail.  I've since lost the URL.  Does anyone happen to know it or where I might find it?  Google isnt helping much
Nov 14 08:30:36 <languish> Gumby http://jasta.dyndns.org/android/
Nov 14 08:30:50 <Gumby> thanks a bunch languish
Nov 14 08:30:54 <languish> o/
Nov 14 08:32:03 <spikebike> yes
Nov 14 08:45:16 <kozak> Hi can some one tell me the ilnk for logs for this channel?
Nov 14 08:46:03 <DarkriftX> good question
Nov 14 08:46:18 <DarkriftX> i never found the official ones, just freenodes logs that were 1+ day old
Nov 14 08:47:23 <kozak> hmm
Nov 14 08:47:28 <kozak> too bad
Nov 14 08:47:38 <kRutOn> I don't think the vote as to whether to log has come out yet
Nov 14 08:47:43 <kRutOn> There was a vote a while ago...
Nov 14 08:47:52 <kRutOn> oh wait, I see the topic now
Nov 14 08:48:01 <kozak> yeah
Nov 14 08:49:24 <kRutOn> It will probably be linked from http://source.android.com/discuss when they set it up.
Nov 14 08:50:13 <kozak> oh ok
Nov 14 08:59:18 <kozak> thanks
Nov 14 09:03:27 <jtoy> is anyone successfully build apps on android  that arent written in java ? like jruby,grooy, whatever?
Nov 14 09:03:50 <spikebike> not that I've heard
Nov 14 09:03:58 <spikebike> jython
Nov 14 09:05:09 <Leeds> I'm just thinking about pypy
Nov 14 09:05:53 <waldo__> anyone know how hard it is to use gdata w/android?
Nov 14 09:06:21 <kIDDAI> hallo soundmonster
Nov 14 09:06:39 <soundmonster> @kIDDAI w00t?
Nov 14 09:08:06 <soundmonster> do you mean gdata antivirus software?
Nov 14 09:09:15 <waldo__> no I mean google's API for doing cool things
Nov 14 09:09:35 <Leeds> I thought there was an API, but I can't find it
Nov 14 09:14:55 <soundmonster> all APIs are here http://code.google.com/android/reference/packages.html
Nov 14 09:14:55 <soundmonster> unfortunately, you'll probable have to write your own stubs for this. But hey, it's "sort-of"-java, so any existing java implementation would suffice
Nov 14 09:15:15 <waldo__> there is an official google gdata library
Nov 14 09:15:19 <waldo__> but the thing is...  it's ant.
Nov 14 09:15:38 <waldo__> i'm just learning java on eclipse I can't start over :blah
Nov 14 09:17:46 <soundmonster> try compiling gdata-bindings with ant and putting the resulting jar into /path/to/your/project/lib
Nov 14 09:18:10 <soundmonster> or maybe there is even some sort of wizard for it which also updates the build.xml
Nov 14 09:22:00 <Gumby> is there a way to change the default font size in android?
Nov 14 09:22:32 <Leeds> Gumby: yes and no... there's nothing in the base OS, but there is something in the app market, AFAIK
Nov 14 09:24:31 <Gumby> I'm still a noob when it comes to all this. To access the app market to I have to have a G1 phone or can I access it just as a user who runs android in an emulator (on a htc vogue/touch)
Nov 14 09:24:35 <waldo__> soundmonster: I really don't know enough about ant to do that.. I guess maybe I have it installed on my mac tho
Nov 14 09:24:43 <umdk1d3> hmm i wonder if there is some sort of merging process for irc logs
Nov 14 09:24:52 <waldo__> umdk1d3: what do you mean
Nov 14 09:24:55 <umdk1d3> like a diff/patch that can fill from dozens of sources
Nov 14 09:25:05 <umdk1d3> like if we all have logs from different date/times
Nov 14 09:25:08 <umdk1d3> nobody has it all
Nov 14 09:25:09 <waldo__> soundmonster: that's actually an interesting idea what you suggested above
Nov 14 09:25:34 <waldo__> umdk1d3: you mean to rebuild a full history of the channel from multiple sources?
Nov 14 09:26:35 <Gumby> umdk1d3: if each line was input into a sql database it'd be quite easy to query unique/distinct values from that db
Nov 14 09:27:06 <Gumby> and it'd be quite easy to import logfiles into a db
Nov 14 09:27:33 <Gumby> but you could quite easily run into timestamp issues
Nov 14 09:28:09 <Leeds> Gumby: well, there's no market in my emulator...
Nov 14 09:28:09 <umdk1d3> right, youre going to have some overlap
Nov 14 09:28:25 <umdk1d3> and not sure how netplits would be handled
Nov 14 09:28:35 <umdk1d3> (if we have logs from both sides of the netsplit)
Nov 14 09:39:48 <languish> there's a dancing android 8-ball style app in games
Nov 14 09:39:51 <languish> :|
Nov 14 09:40:06 <languish> *magic 8-ball
Nov 14 09:40:07 <swetland> what's it called?
Nov 14 09:40:13 <languish> The Oracle Jr
Nov 14 09:40:26 <languish> it's cute, I like the dancing android
Nov 14 09:40:46 <languish> filed under useless fun momentary diversion
Nov 14 09:42:50 <swetland> cute
Nov 14 09:44:04 <swetland> the feedback comments for apps people don't understand or don't think are utterly amazing tend to be pretty vicious
Nov 14 09:44:13 <languish> yes
Nov 14 09:44:29 <languish> Much of said feedback is ridiculous
Nov 14 09:44:32 <swetland> it's sorta unfortunate. I've seen a lot of neat little utility apps that get just brutal feedback
Nov 14 09:45:21 <languish> Idiots don't want to miss anything so badly, they install things they're clueless about.
Nov 14 09:46:24 <languish> Then again, some of the stuff being uploaded to the Market by a few devs is equally ridiculous.
Nov 14 09:46:29 <languish> :|
Nov 14 09:50:16 <Neverender1> some are both ridiculous and awesome
Nov 14 09:50:30 <Neverender1> and some are just bad
Nov 14 09:51:57 <languish> well, the ones upping stuff to the net just to show one or two other people..
Nov 14 09:52:02 <spikebike> I wish there was a tiny little symbol by each app
Nov 14 09:52:06 <spikebike> maybe O
Nov 14 09:52:10 <spikebike> for opensource
Nov 14 09:53:02 <Neverender1> languish: yeah i saw a "hello world" the other day
Nov 14 09:53:47 <waldo__> ah hah.. here's how to do gdata in eclipse :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz9Ny22M4V4
Nov 14 09:53:56 <languish> I'm also concerned that some unscrupulous devs might keep creating accounts, reinitializing their phone with 'em, and hitting the market, just to downplay competitors apps
Nov 14 09:54:09 <waldo__> i wonder if that can be combined with android
Nov 14 09:55:17 <spikebike> possible
Nov 14 09:55:35 <spikebike> but seems like there's a zillion people using the market, it's going to be painful to effects the results much
Nov 14 09:55:59 <waldo__> so anyone know if you install the gdata plugin via eclipse can it be combined with an android project?
Nov 14 09:56:35 <languish> wheee?
Nov 14 09:56:45 <waldo__> that was fun
Nov 14 09:57:04 <waldo__> languish: do you know of anyone who uses gdata in their android applications?
Nov 14 09:57:09 <waldo__> not counting official google sw
Nov 14 09:57:25 <languish> spikebike, a zillion? currently I don't see that many overall. Though, I'm sure there will be more.
Nov 14 10:00:01 <languish> waldo, me? no.. sorry I don't
Nov 14 10:03:00 <andatche> yay, seems like RC8 made GTalk work again :)
Nov 14 10:03:06 <languish> heh
Nov 14 10:09:46 <saurik> swetland: the way I work around that in Cydia (competitor to Apple's App Store for jailbroken iPhones) is to have "user levels": people say "I am an end user" or "I am a developer", and then have tags on the packages for "only show to people listed as 'developer'", etc.
Nov 14 10:10:22 <spikebike> heh
Nov 14 10:10:52 <Leeds> "I'm a developer" "and I'm an iPhone"
Nov 14 10:10:54 <saurik> swetland: before I added that feature people kept complaining that "ruby", which was obviously a game, was unplayable due to there not being an icon installed on their device
Nov 14 10:10:58 <spikebike> i suspect it will migrate towards newegg/amazon type reviews
Nov 14 10:12:22 <saurik> spikebike: what do they do that's special? the meta-moderation "was this review helpful?" feature?
Nov 14 10:12:29 <spikebike> btw connectbot rocks
Nov 14 10:12:54 <spikebike> ya that and the idea of reviewer reputation
Nov 14 10:13:05 <spikebike> see all review by someone
Nov 14 10:13:36 <spikebike> makes it pretty useful
Nov 14 10:13:36 <saurik> I might argue that the problem, however, is that it is arguably "correct" that these nifty packages, packages I might enjoy, get harsh reviews over being useless for 99% of the users out there
Nov 14 10:13:56 <saurik> its a market segmentation issue
Nov 14 10:13:58 <spikebike> most useful pos and neg review
Nov 14 10:14:37 <spikebike> ya devel vs user should help
Nov 14 10:15:04 <languish> could also use a wikipedia style trustee citizens review panel
Nov 14 10:15:12 <spikebike> then again i dont really expect devels to shop for libs in the market
Nov 14 10:15:44 <languish> a few hundred seemingly moderate voters to judge the worst offenders
Nov 14 10:15:56 <Leeds> yeah, I expect one or two third-party directories to float to the top
Nov 14 10:16:05 <spikebike> ubuntu needs a lib market !!!!
Nov 14 10:16:08 <spikebike> smirk
Nov 14 10:16:10 <languish> though the wiki inf-ighting is insane
Nov 14 10:16:14 <saurik> its not as much libraries as the level of UI you find in a utility
Nov 14 10:16:36 <saurik> a developer is more likely to be ok with an application that has minimal UI but godlike functionality
Nov 14 10:16:52 <saurik> whereas an end user might consider it confusing, or useless, or even broken (as they misunderstand it so fully)
Nov 14 10:17:49 <waldo__> wow I got gdata working in my little demo app!  woohoo..
Nov 14 10:18:09 * languish cheers waldo!
Nov 14 10:18:30 <spikebike> thus nmap
Nov 14 10:19:05 <languish> thus spake nmapathrustra
Nov 14 10:19:24 <languish> mmm
Nov 14 10:19:27 <waldo__> languish: yup cool... now to get it to work w/android
Nov 14 10:19:28 <languish> that sounds too kinky
Nov 14 10:19:33 <languish> :)
Nov 14 10:21:43 <spikebike> waldo xool please post an example/blog
Nov 14 10:21:57 <spikebike> cool
Nov 14 10:22:10 <spikebike> im on a g1 walking in the dark
Nov 14 10:23:01 <languish> if you're on a g1, you have *some* light :|
Nov 14 10:23:08 <Leeds> spikebike: look where you're going!
Nov 14 10:23:18 <languish> use the flashlight,apk!
Nov 14 10:23:23 <languish> ,/.
Nov 14 10:23:57 <languish> No response. Maybe he hit a tree :(
Nov 14 10:24:24 <languish> or the rythm got 'im
Nov 14 10:25:05 <spikebike> heh
Nov 14 10:29:39 <Leeds> personally, I blame it on the boogie
Nov 14 10:31:18 <languish> Well please keep track of your muscus from now on. :|
Nov 14 10:31:22 <languish> -s
Nov 14 11:23:49 <anno^da_> good morning guys
Nov 14 12:04:41 <blau> sigh
Nov 14 12:05:05 <blau> my apps are showing slightly more realistic stats
Nov 14 12:05:40 <blau> anyone know if the total installed code changed recently?
Nov 14 12:09:31 <kRutOn> yeah, that's weird
Nov 14 12:09:40 <kRutOn> total installed went down, but active installs went up
Nov 14 12:11:16 <blau> both of mine went up
Nov 14 12:11:24 <blau> but percent got cut in half on one of my apps
Nov 14 12:15:49 <kRutOn> man, finally fixed some annoying bugs
Nov 14 12:16:12 <kRutOn> stupid cold
Nov 14 12:17:39 <kRutOn> is there a way to increaase the time the keyboard backlight stays on?
Nov 14 12:18:25 <blau> im pulling my hair out with scheduling items to be added to my expense tracker
Nov 14 12:19:01 <blau> i went through the trouble of designing the entire system, but now i did so much work that i dont feel like finishing coding it
Nov 14 12:19:31 <umdk1d3> kRutOn: you could force it on with the wakelock flags
Nov 14 12:19:47 <blau> ive had issues with wakelocks :(
Nov 14 12:19:59 <umdk1d3> we could emulate a custom timeout by obtaining two locks, one for screen which lasts until activity close
Nov 14 12:20:00 <blau> i cant reliably bring the screen on with an actual g1
Nov 14 12:20:14 <umdk1d3> and another for just the keyboard light that releases it after awhile
Nov 14 12:20:47 <blau> umdk: do you have experience with wakelocks? would you mind taking a look at my code and seeing if anythign looks wrong
Nov 14 12:22:59 <umdk1d3> is it crashing?
Nov 14 12:23:31 <blau> nope
Nov 14 12:23:57 <blau> seems to be executing fine, the screen just doesnt turn on, or turns on for shorter than expected
Nov 14 12:24:24 <umdk1d3> hmmm
Nov 14 12:24:31 <umdk1d3> i havent played with waking up the screen when its dead
Nov 14 12:24:40 <blau> theres the bulk of my code 		PowerManager pm = (PowerManager) context.getSystemService(context.POWER_SERVICE);
Nov 14 12:24:40 <blau> 				wakelock = pm.newWakeLock(PowerManager.SCREEN_BRIGHT_WAKE_LOCK | PowerManager.ACQUIRE_CAUSES_WAKEUP /*| PowerManager.ON_AFTER_RELEASE*/, TAG);
Nov 14 12:24:40 <blau> 				wakelock.acquire(Long.valueOf(settings.getString(context.getString(R.string.prefTimeout), "9")).longValue() *1000);
Nov 14 12:24:40 <blau> 		
Nov 14 12:25:58 <blau> ive tried just doing an acquire and then releasing after my own timing finishes too
Nov 14 12:26:01 <blau> same results
Nov 14 12:26:16 <blau> seems to work fine in the emulator too
Nov 14 12:26:29 <umdk1d3> when you say same results, is it just that it fails to fall asleep after released?
Nov 14 12:27:19 <blau> same results being the screen never comes on
Nov 14 12:27:37 <umdk1d3> can you verify in logcat that your code is actually being run when you expect it to wake up?
Nov 14 12:27:54 <blau> yeah i have
Nov 14 12:28:11 <blau> it seems to fix itself after a reboot
Nov 14 12:28:19 <umdk1d3> hmm odd
Nov 14 12:28:45 <umdk1d3> only advice i can give would be to peek at the alarmclock source
Nov 14 12:28:49 <blau> its in a broadcastreceiver on sms
Nov 14 12:28:57 <blau> umdk: i did, i basically do something identically
Nov 14 12:29:04 <umdk1d3> hmm
Nov 14 12:29:06 <blau> ive heard of people having trouble with the alarm clock going off
Nov 14 12:29:29 <blau> like the alarm not going off until they turn the screen
Nov 14 12:30:05 <kRutOn> in the middle of a meeting D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D:)
Nov 14 12:30:06 <blau> some people have no sound period
Nov 14 12:30:24 <kRutOn> jesus... scroll ball sucks
Nov 14 12:30:31 <blau> i love the scroll ball
Nov 14 12:30:34 <blau> i wish it was a littl ebigger
Nov 14 12:30:51 <umdk1d3> kRutOn: you mean like for scrolling in ssh?
Nov 14 12:30:53 <kRutOn> maybe i need to make it work better in cb
Nov 14 12:31:08 <umdk1d3> we could make it a little slower (like only every 3-ticks)
Nov 14 12:31:13 <umdk1d3> and then give a little vibrate feedback
Nov 14 12:31:21 <kRutOn> umdk1d3: yeah... testing new build
Nov 14 12:31:28 <blau> feedback is key for phones!
Nov 14 12:31:29 <umdk1d3> its pretty bad on EDGE/GPRS
Nov 14 12:31:49 <umdk1d3> kRutOn: you have working phone?  =D
Nov 14 12:32:15 <blau> umdk: i want there to be a vibrate optionn
Nov 14 12:32:18 <kRutOn> umdk1d3: yeah, i went ahead and covered the spread
Nov 14 12:32:27 <umdk1d3> niiiiiice
Nov 14 12:32:37 <blau> you know how you can make the phone make a sound when you scroll or click
Nov 14 12:32:37 <kRutOn> umdk1d3: no tmo service, though
Nov 14 12:32:45 <blau> i think it should vibrate if you have sound on vibrate
Nov 14 12:33:11 <blau> or at least be a preference
Nov 14 12:33:28 <kRutOn> umdk1d3: i just fixed that suspend/resume screwing up irssi bug
Nov 14 12:34:18 <kRutOn> hah
Nov 14 12:34:48 <blau> anyone figure out how to open a dex file?
Nov 14 12:35:07 <blau> nevermind i think i just did
Nov 14 12:35:55 <blau> whats to stop someone from decompiling the gmail app?
Nov 14 12:36:45 <kRutOn> DMCA?
Nov 14 12:37:17 <kRutOn> I wonder if the cursor shapes are accessible somewhere
Nov 14 12:37:43 <kRutOn> I need a JavaDoc reader on Android now.
Nov 14 12:38:01 <tauno> who's responsible for the Dialog implementation? :P
Nov 14 12:38:40 <kRutOn> tauno: complain any more and we'll increase the margins!
Nov 14 12:38:49 <blau> lol
Nov 14 12:38:51 <tauno> oh noes...
Nov 14 12:39:08 <kRutOn> tauno: You'll never see your precious widgets
Nov 14 12:39:20 <blau> should the dialog be used to get information from a user beyond the yes,no, neutral buttons?
Nov 14 12:39:30 <tauno> it's just.. why on earth is setIcon(null) not removing the icon?..
Nov 14 12:39:31 <blau> are there android ui guidelines anywhere/
Nov 14 12:40:39 <kRutOn> blau: cb does but I'm hating it.
Nov 14 12:42:00 <blau> yeah i dont like it either, i started using it in 2 places in my app
Nov 14 12:42:42 <blau> it just doesnt fit well imo, but i cant think of an elegant way to do what im doing
Nov 14 12:44:10 <kRutOn> blau: require the user to input  by writing the letter in air with their phone
Nov 14 12:44:16 <blau> lol
Nov 14 12:44:24 <kRutOn> what else are accelerometers for
Nov 14 12:44:39 <blau> i thought they were for generating random input when the user shakes the phone
Nov 14 12:45:00 <blau> that would be a fun prank app when google implements IME
Nov 14 12:45:06 <languish> I thought they were for sensing climax :|
Nov 14 12:45:08 <blau> downloading something to generate random input when its moved
Nov 14 12:45:16 <kRutOn> every program MUST have a disco mode
Nov 14 12:45:18 <blau> and running it on all the phones at the tmobil store
Nov 14 12:45:40 <tauno> I have to use a 1px transparent image so the Dialog won't show a icon in the title.. it's like taking down a dog kennel with a "panzerfaust"
Nov 14 12:48:36 <blau> i feel like im not thinking about this correctly
Nov 14 12:48:46 <blau> i have something that i need to run at a certain time
Nov 14 12:48:53 <blau> it should be invisible to the user
Nov 14 12:49:41 <blau> how can I do that, I was under the impression that a service is always running and i definately dont need that
Nov 14 12:52:51 <languish> i wonder if you can somehow use the alarm app already in the system to kick off an event instead
Nov 14 12:53:09 <languish> that would be cool if such an intent existed
Nov 14 12:53:55 <blau>    alarmManager.setRepeating(AlarmManager.RTC, //RTC_WAKEUP will wake up the device at that time...we don't care for this, but maybe for future?
Nov 14 12:53:55 <blau> 				cal.getTimeInMillis(), 	86400000, //interval, 86 400 000 is one day
Nov 14 12:53:55 <blau> 				PendingIntent.getActivity(aContext, 0, new Intent(aContext, Scheduler.class), PendingIntent.FLAG_CANCEL_CURRENT )
Nov 14 12:53:55 <blau> 	
Nov 14 12:54:38 <blau> hmm
Nov 14 12:58:50 <blau> duh, i cant just do a broadcast i think
Nov 14 12:58:54 <blau> im an idiot
Nov 14 13:05:04 <languish> nah dude you're not an idiot
Nov 14 13:05:19 <languish> That's a pretty low classification
Nov 14 13:05:38 <languish> you rate as highly as an imbecile!
Nov 14 13:05:39 <umdk1d3> hmm do the droid fonts have any special "android" chars?
Nov 14 13:05:50 <umdk1d3> like a robot outline
Nov 14 13:05:57 <languish> that would be cool
Nov 14 13:06:03 * umdk1d3 emerges font previewer to check
Nov 14 13:06:08 <languish> what's the alt code for bugdroid
Nov 14 13:06:10 <languish> :D
Nov 14 13:08:25 <blau> i dont think we are allowed to use android fonts
Nov 14 13:08:38 <blau> http://www.android.com/branding.html
Nov 14 13:08:55 <languish> he means the font in android for screen display
Nov 14 13:09:10 <languish> it's a custom font google arranged
Nov 14 13:09:31 <blau> ok
Nov 14 13:09:34 <languish> though i may be wrong :|
Nov 14 13:09:37 <languish> but yeah..
Nov 14 13:09:46 <umdk1d3> yea i meant like droid sans, which is used everywhere on the emulator/device
Nov 14 13:13:04 <umdk1d3> okay confirmed, i couldnt find any even digging into the ttf itself
Nov 14 13:13:06 <umdk1d3> oh well
Nov 14 13:13:26 <blau> i cant believe the autotext dictionary isnt easily available
Nov 14 13:13:30 <blau> grr
Nov 14 13:20:27 <languish> umdk1d3, so work on an ascii art bugdroid :D
Nov 14 13:20:37 <languish> had i teh skillz i wuld
Nov 14 13:32:53 * michaelnovakjr yawns
Nov 14 13:34:31 <Dougie187> drink some coffee.
Nov 14 13:34:32 <Dougie187> lol
Nov 14 13:34:52 * blau yawns too
Nov 14 13:35:01 <michaelnovakjr> just got it :)
Nov 14 13:35:33 <michaelnovakjr> late night of call of duty
Nov 14 13:35:45 <Dougie187> hah
Nov 14 13:35:53 <Dougie187> I just beat assassins creed yesterday
Nov 14 13:36:00 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Nov 14 13:36:00 <Dougie187> now its on to GTA4
Nov 14 13:36:07 <blau> i gave up on Dead Space
Nov 14 13:36:12 <blau> got to like the 8th chapter
Nov 14 13:36:20 <blau> and then got sick of blasting the same damn monsters
Nov 14 13:36:28 <blau> but i rarely ever finish games
Nov 14 13:36:52 <Dougie187> Is it fun at all?
Nov 14 13:37:01 <Dougie187> Assassin's creed got really boring after a while
Nov 14 13:37:01 <blau> dead space is a ton of fun
Nov 14 13:37:04 <blau> definately worth it
Nov 14 13:37:08 <Dougie187> cool
Nov 14 13:37:17 <michaelnovakjr> star wars!
Nov 14 13:37:20 <blau> my attention span is really low, so getting through well over half the game is a big plus
Nov 14 13:37:41 <blau> i pretty much gave up on gears of war 2 after the first level
Nov 14 13:37:42 <blau> lol
Nov 14 13:37:52 <blau> cause its basically gow 1 with less epic battles
Nov 14 13:39:44 <michaelnovakjr> Sun is laying off 6,000
Nov 14 13:39:54 <blau> yikes
Nov 14 13:40:07 <michaelnovakjr> eh, citigroup is laying off 10,000
Nov 14 13:40:23 <blau> its probably not the best time for me to leave my job, lol
Nov 14 13:40:31 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i'd say so
Nov 14 13:40:57 <blau> except my job's moving to maryland in a year or two
Nov 14 13:41:08 <blau> from new jersey, and i dont think i want to go now
Nov 14 13:41:21 <michaelnovakjr> i'd at least wait the two years :)
Nov 14 13:42:04 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: star wars?
Nov 14 13:42:13 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187: the stars wars gam
Nov 14 13:42:15 <michaelnovakjr> e
Nov 14 13:42:18 <Dougie187> the force one?
Nov 14 13:42:21 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Nov 14 13:42:30 <Dougie187> any good?
Nov 14 13:42:37 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i think its awesome
Nov 14 13:42:48 <Dougie187> my brother has it for the wii
Nov 14 13:42:51 <Dougie187> and hes bringing it in like a week
Nov 14 13:42:56 <Dougie187> so i will get to try it soon enough
Nov 14 13:43:11 <michaelnovakjr> i've got it for ps3
Nov 14 13:43:18 <blau> i played the ps3 demo
Nov 14 13:43:57 <michaelnovakjr> mirror's edge
Nov 14 13:44:05 <michaelnovakjr> that looks like  an aawesome gmae
Nov 14 13:44:38 <Dougie187> Mirror's edge does look fun. It seems like it could get really boring though
Nov 14 13:44:41 <blau> Breaking: Google Adding Free Voice Search to the iPhone wtf
Nov 14 13:44:46 <Dougie187> i mean it looks awesome, and the demo was awesome.
Nov 14 13:44:52 <blau> i love the mirrors edge demo
Nov 14 13:45:00 <blau> i think it can be fun enough just doing time trials
Nov 14 13:45:04 <Dougie187> i just feel like its going to be a lot of the same stuff
Nov 14 13:45:10 <Dougie187> and they don't have multiplayer to keep me interested.
Nov 14 13:46:20 <michaelnovakjr> i'm going to pick it up
Nov 14 13:47:06 <blau> ill accept it as a donation
Nov 14 13:47:25 <Dougie187> lol
Nov 14 13:47:31 <Dougie187> I put it on my xmas list.
Nov 14 13:47:50 <Dougie187> not that i should really have an xmas list...
Nov 14 13:47:54 <Dougie187> but my parents ask for one.
Nov 14 13:49:01 <blau> yeah my parents still ask for one
Nov 14 13:49:06 <blau> amazon wishlist works
Nov 14 13:49:28 <michaelnovakjr> whoa, my terminal window disappeared, but the text is still there
Nov 14 13:49:36 <Dougie187> that is weird
Nov 14 13:49:40 <Dougie187> did you ever change your drivers?
Nov 14 13:49:51 <michaelnovakjr> yea didn't do anything
Nov 14 13:49:57 <Dougie187> that sucks..
Nov 14 13:50:01 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Nov 14 13:50:03 <Dougie187> i haven't had the issue since I changed.
Nov 14 13:50:09 <michaelnovakjr> it only happens in kdevelop so its not a big deal
Nov 14 13:50:21 <Dougie187> yeah
Nov 14 13:50:27 <Dougie187> well i don't use kdevelop.
Nov 14 13:50:30 <Dougie187> do you use kubuntu?
Nov 14 13:50:50 <michaelnovakjr> nope, ubuntu
Nov 14 13:51:04 <michaelnovakjr> i hate kde, kdevelop is the only kde app i use
Nov 14 13:51:42 <Dougie187> i hate kde too.
Nov 14 13:51:53 <Dougie187> but there was a kde app i use to use, but i don't anymore.
Nov 14 13:52:13 <michaelnovakjr> and kde4 just is absolutely horrible
Nov 14 13:52:29 <michaelnovakjr> a guy at work was a long time kde user and when kd4 came out he ditched it for gnome
Nov 14 13:52:33 <Dougie187> i have friends who use it just because you can have your background change every hour.
Nov 14 13:52:41 <Dougie187> lol
Nov 14 13:52:45 <michaelnovakjr> lame.
Nov 14 13:52:47 <Dougie187> yeah
Nov 14 13:53:00 <Dougie187> you can probably setup cron to do it in gnome too..
Nov 14 13:53:02 <Dougie187> but ionno
Nov 14 13:53:03 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 14 13:53:22 <Dougie187> my mom is ditching vista soon for ubuntu too
Nov 14 13:53:22 <DarkriftX> im sure you can
Nov 14 13:53:30 <michaelnovakjr> it slows everything down
Nov 14 13:53:32 <michaelnovakjr> not worth it
Nov 14 13:53:38 <Dougie187> yeah
Nov 14 13:53:46 <Dougie187> and usually you have windows up over your background anyways.
Nov 14 13:53:49 <Dougie187> so what does it matter.
Nov 14 13:53:52 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Nov 14 13:56:53 <Dougie187> Are you getting world at war michaelnovakjr?
Nov 14 13:57:02 <michaelnovakjr> probably
Nov 14 13:57:14 <Dougie187> Is it out yet>
Nov 14 13:58:27 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Nov 14 13:58:32 <michaelnovakjr> it came out tuesday
Nov 14 13:58:51 <Dougie187> cool. did you play the demo?
Nov 14 13:58:56 <michaelnovakjr> not yet
Nov 14 13:59:07 <blau> i didnt like the beta, too much like cod4, why boher
Nov 14 13:59:18 <michaelnovakjr> cod4 is still a great game
Nov 14 13:59:23 <michaelnovakjr> i was playing last night :)
Nov 14 13:59:47 <Dougie187> yeah, i still don't own it.
Nov 14 13:59:47 <Dougie187> lol
Nov 14 13:59:55 <michaelnovakjr> lame
Nov 14 13:59:58 <michaelnovakjr> just lame
Nov 14 14:13:43 <kaner> is it possible to start porting linux apps to android native using the emulator? i mean c apps, not java?
Nov 14 14:14:47 <michaelnovakjr> you can write c apps for android but its not 'supported'
Nov 14 14:14:52 <d0netsFN> you mean just copy and paste code?
Nov 14 14:14:57 <michaelnovakjr> no
Nov 14 14:15:03 <michaelnovakjr> you need to cross-compile
Nov 14 14:15:11 <michaelnovakjr> elf binaries run on android
Nov 14 14:15:13 <d0netsFN> im trying to port a java tuner
Nov 14 14:15:19 <d0netsFN> but it uses javax.sound
Nov 14 14:15:25 <Inferus> Hai all :D
Nov 14 14:15:26 <d0netsFN> and supposedly the android media api blows
Nov 14 14:15:38 <Inferus> Didn't think to join a channel for android :-)
Nov 14 14:15:49 <blau> guitar tuner?
Nov 14 14:15:51 <d0netsFN> yea
Nov 14 14:15:58 * Inferus has his G1 next to him on his desk :D
Nov 14 14:16:04 <kaner> michaelnovakjr: of course, but can i test-run them in the emulator?
Nov 14 14:16:05 <blau> infernus: me 2
Nov 14 14:16:05 <d0netsFN> http://code.google.com/tunedroid
Nov 14 14:16:11 <michaelnovakjr> yes kaner
Nov 14 14:16:11 <Inferus> Has an android app for IRC been released yet?
Nov 14 14:16:18 <d0netsFN> inferus not yet
Nov 14 14:16:19 <michaelnovakjr> Inferus: i am writing one
Nov 14 14:16:21 <Inferus> boo
Nov 14 14:16:21 <kaner> michaelnovakjr: i tried a hello world-like app and it wouldnt run
Nov 14 14:16:28 <d0netsFN> you can use connectbot to connect to irssi or bitchx
Nov 14 14:16:32 <michaelnovakjr> are you using a cross compiler kaner
Nov 14 14:16:33 <Inferus> ah k ;p
Nov 14 14:16:37 <kaner> michaelnovakjr: i did
Nov 14 14:16:41 <Inferus> has a VNC client been written yet d0netsFN? :)
Nov 14 14:16:49 <michaelnovakjr> the one that is used with android kaner ?
Nov 14 14:16:53 <kaner> michaelnovakjr: the emulator said: no such fil or directory when i tried my ./a.out after uploading it
Nov 14 14:16:54 <d0netsFN> code.google.com/android-vnc-viewer
Nov 14 14:16:58 <blau> thers also an ajax irc client that works
Nov 14 14:17:07 <d0netsFN> http://code.google.com/android-vnc-viewer
Nov 14 14:17:12 <blau> mibbit!
Nov 14 14:17:19 <d0netsFN> blau is that what its called?
Nov 14 14:17:22 <michaelnovakjr> my irc client will be nice, i promise
Nov 14 14:17:27 <Inferus> wow d0netsFN
Nov 14 14:17:28 <Inferus> :)
Nov 14 14:17:34 <d0netsFN> any eta michaelnovakjr?
Nov 14 14:17:39 <michaelnovakjr> kaner: not sure, i did it a while ago... and its not supported
Nov 14 14:17:42 <d0netsFN> inferus you cant install with the apk
Nov 14 14:17:46 <d0netsFN> i think you have to biuld it yourself
Nov 14 14:17:47 <michaelnovakjr> d0netsFN: i hope to have a test version next week
Nov 14 14:18:00 <d0netsFN> good deal
Nov 14 14:18:00 <blau> i made an irc clietn that joins #android!
Nov 14 14:18:14 <blau> it doesnt do antyhing else though
Nov 14 14:18:25 <kaner> michaelnovakjr: so its not possible to port c apps without the real phone? sad.
Nov 14 14:18:27 <Inferus> haha
Nov 14 14:18:27 <michaelnovakjr> yea, mine supports multiple connections :)
Nov 14 14:18:36 <michaelnovakjr> kaner: no i didn't say that
Nov 14 14:18:43 <michaelnovakjr> i ran my c app in the emulator
Nov 14 14:18:53 <kaner> michaelnovakjr: which compiler/toolchain did you use?
Nov 14 14:19:01 <michaelnovakjr> the one android uses :)
Nov 14 14:19:05 <kaner> where did you copy it to (which directory on the emu)?
Nov 14 14:19:17 <michaelnovakjr> i don't remember :)
Nov 14 14:19:19 <d0netsFN> http://code.google.com/p/android-vnc-viewer/
Nov 14 14:19:20 <kaner> michaelnovakjr: do you have an url?
Nov 14 14:19:22 <d0netsFN> that was the correct link
Nov 14 14:19:30 <d0netsFN> and for the tuner
Nov 14 14:19:36 <d0netsFN> http://code.google.com/p/tunedroid
Nov 14 14:19:38 <d0netsFN> i forgot the /p/
Nov 14 14:19:42 <michaelnovakjr> kaner: not readily, i haven't bothered with it in a few months, it wasn't all that special :)
Nov 14 14:19:42 <d0netsFN> speaking of
Nov 14 14:19:45 <d0netsFN> i gotta /p/
Nov 14 14:19:47 <ramzez> @at kaner: look in the Prebuilt folder for NDK
Nov 14 14:19:52 <blau> you guys love sharing code
Nov 14 14:20:00 <michaelnovakjr> blau: yes
Nov 14 14:20:22 <tauno> is there something like a general exception handler? I mean if I mess something up in my code then I would like to present the user with a nice dialog etc.. or do I have to really surround every onCreate, onResume, OnTouch, OnClick etc etc etc etc.. with a trycatch?
Nov 14 14:20:33 <ramzez> kaner: did you get android source?
Nov 14 14:20:44 <blau> tauno: they get a nice dialog :)
Nov 14 14:20:45 <blau> force close
Nov 14 14:20:53 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Nov 14 14:20:53 <kaner> ramzez: no, i dont need the source to compile apps, i just need the libs
Nov 14 14:21:11 <ramzez> kaner: the toolchain is part of the android source
Nov 14 14:21:11 <tauno> blau, no, I want to do stuff.. like log the stactrace and post it to the net etc ;)
Nov 14 14:21:18 <kaner> ramzez: ah, ok
Nov 14 14:21:39 <blau> yeah surround everythingis the best i know
Nov 14 14:21:57 <ramzez> kaner: you need to get the source, there is a directory called prebuild, their you can get toolchain NDK it is called, there is an example code as well, you can only compile on Mac or Linux though
Nov 14 14:22:10 <kaner> ramzez: i got this one: arm-2008q3-41-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2
Nov 14 14:22:16 <tauno> it's going to be fun.. it's like 15 activities and n+1 custom views:P
Nov 14 14:22:22 <kaner> ramzez: thanks, sounds great
Nov 14 14:22:37 <blau> tauno: just make code that doesnt crash
Nov 14 14:22:37 <ramzez> kaner: that's sourcecy one, the android one is more limiting i think
Nov 14 14:23:14 <ramzez> kaner: from what i heard on the net, it doesn't have full c++ and has limited libc support
Nov 14 14:23:21 <kaner> ramzez: that one didnt work. or i made a mistake, but what can you do wrong with ./a.out?
Nov 14 14:23:39 <kaner> ramzez: okay, i will check the android source for the toolchain then
Nov 14 14:23:43 <kaner> thanks for helpinh
Nov 14 14:24:07 <ramzez> kaner: there is also a readme file and simple helloworld
Nov 14 14:24:13 <kaner> nice.
Nov 14 14:24:48 <ramzez> kaner: i think the only way to make it run on android is by creating a shared library and using JNI, but google doesn't officially supports it yet
Nov 14 14:24:57 <blau> sqlite doesnt support dates right?
Nov 14 14:25:27 <michaelnovakjr> not that i know of
Nov 14 14:25:34 <kaner> ramzez: why can't you upload stuff and execute it on the command line?
Nov 14 14:25:48 <michaelnovakjr> blau: wait i think they do
Nov 14 14:26:00 <ramzez> kaner: you can in the emulator but on the device
Nov 14 14:26:20 <blau> sigh... i cant remember why i decided to use longs for all my dates in my db now
Nov 14 14:26:35 <michaelnovakjr> ramzez: yes, its probably not the full libc but some variation of it
Nov 14 14:27:14 <kaner> ramzez: it wont be long until someone ports sshd to android
Nov 14 14:28:00 <ramzez> kaner: depends on the usage, i think the architecture will only allow activities to be run
Nov 14 14:28:41 <kaner> ramzez: officially, yes
Nov 14 14:28:45 <kaner> for now at least
Nov 14 14:29:29 <savid> Where are files saved that are downloaded from the Browser? (ie,  using the "savel link" feature)?
Nov 14 14:29:52 <jbq> savid: /sdcard/downloads
Nov 14 14:30:26 <savid> cool, thx
Nov 14 14:39:40 <blau> i still think the stats are wrong grrr
Nov 14 14:43:37 <savid> Anyone know how I can modify the default $PATH environment variable (and make it permanent)?
Nov 14 14:43:38 <tauno> I also.. I mena.. I made an awesome app and stats show that only 1 dude has downloaded it :/
Nov 14 14:44:13 <savid> tauno, what's your app?
Nov 14 14:44:38 <tauno> "an awesome app"
Nov 14 14:44:55 <tauno> j/k :)
Nov 14 14:45:21 <savid> alrighty then
Nov 14 14:45:31 <PINguAR_> does factory reset also reset updated firmwares?
Nov 14 14:45:42 <jbq> PINguAR_: nope
Nov 14 14:45:51 <PINguAR_> jbq: aww. :(
Nov 14 14:46:08 <PINguAR_> jbq: so do you know, how can i revert this firmware?
Nov 14 14:46:08 <jbq> It also doesn't repair your screen if you smash it with a hammer.
Nov 14 14:46:23 <jbq> PINguAR_: you can't.
Nov 14 14:46:41 <PINguAR_> jbq: haha. :(
Nov 14 14:47:19 <PINguAR_> jbq: i can't use my line after firmware
Nov 14 14:47:35 <PINguAR_> jbq: i didn't see any related firmware note about it, though
Nov 14 14:47:49 <PINguAR_> jbq: it was an unlocked phone, not tmobile's line. :/
Nov 14 14:48:25 <jbq> Which update did you get? (i.e. which version did you have before the update?)
Nov 14 14:49:11 <PINguAR_> jbq: humm, i don't remember my version before updating -- but it was vulnerable to those "reboot" hack :)
Nov 14 14:49:20 <PINguAR_> jbq: but after updating, its version was tc4-rc30
Nov 14 14:50:30 <jbq> ok. the reason why I'm asking is that the cell-network code didn't change after RC28, so if your update was from rc28 or rc29 to rc30 you might have been looking at a red herring, but if you updated from rc19 there were changes in the relevant areas.
Nov 14 14:52:01 <PINguAR_> jbq: humm, mine should be TC5-RC29 or earlier.
Nov 14 14:54:09 <jbq> Beyond that I really don't know anything. The code in question is part of the G1, it's not in android itself, and I have no idea where to start to even look for any kind of diagnostic.
Nov 14 14:55:12 <PINguAR_> jbq: i see. :( thanks for informations.
Nov 14 14:55:21 * PINguAR_ have to leave office. rush hour, ahh
Nov 14 14:57:23 <filosofico> hi ... Someone knows a page with a deep(/technical) explanation about how works android package (.apk) installation? ... thanks
Nov 14 15:27:08 <blau> sweeeeeeet i got scheduled items working
Nov 14 15:27:12 <blau> now i just need to polish it
Nov 14 15:31:13 <blau> and i now have all the functionality that I used on my palm with Splash Money now on Android with dgMoney
Nov 14 15:31:23 <blau> in about 3 weeksish
Nov 14 15:32:00 <michaelnovakjr> blau: is the scheduling built into android?
Nov 14 15:32:40 <blau> i use the alarmmanager to broadcast an intent to my app daily now
Nov 14 15:32:50 <Impossible> afternoon
Nov 14 15:32:51 <blau> alarmmanager is built into android
Nov 14 15:33:01 <michaelnovakjr> cool
Nov 14 15:33:03 <blau> it runs a pendingintent at a scheduled time and can be set to repeat
Nov 14 15:33:27 <michaelnovakjr> so your app doesn't have to run in the background then right?
Nov 14 15:33:31 <blau> yup!
Nov 14 15:33:33 <michaelnovakjr> sweet
Nov 14 15:33:38 <michaelnovakjr> that is always good
Nov 14 15:33:47 <languish> blau so that idea did work?
Nov 14 15:33:48 <languish> cool
Nov 14 15:33:59 <blau> itll run in the background for a few secs at most once it receives the action
Nov 14 15:34:05 <Impossible> RE: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443041 doesn anyone know if using JF's image if the phone is hard reset (looses all data) from what i can tell it doesnt reset to factory defaults
Nov 14 15:34:12 <blau> just so i can cycle through my table of scheduled items and do my thing
Nov 14 15:34:30 <michaelnovakjr> Impossible: why not ask on the forum :)
Nov 14 15:36:05 <Impossible> good question michaelnovakjr, im keen on knowing obiouslys as soon as i can
Nov 14 15:36:15 <unix_lappy> probably more complicated than this, but Dell + Android seems to  be a better combination than HTC + Android.
Nov 14 15:36:44 <michaelnovakjr> Impossible: sure, but this isn't the xda irc channel :)
Nov 14 15:36:48 <languish> blau, does using the alarm manager affect setting actual alarms at all? as in, does interfere with the number of alrms you can set or that will work properly?
Nov 14 15:36:54 <unix_lappy> especially since they are out of the consumer PMP game.
Nov 14 15:37:07 <blau> lang: i dont know
Nov 14 15:37:09 <blau> i dont believe so
Nov 14 15:37:11 <blau> and i hope not
Nov 14 15:37:17 <Impossible> your right michaelnovakjr, thats cos people actualy talk in here often
Nov 14 15:37:24 <blau> although that may be why people seem to be having alarm issues?
Nov 14 15:37:25 <languish> :|
Nov 14 15:37:39 <languish> blau that was my thought
Nov 14 15:38:11 <blau> i cant imaine it would be that gimped
Nov 14 15:41:41 <blau> is there a way to tell if you are running on the emulator?
Nov 14 15:41:55 <languish> see if the market is present :|
Nov 14 15:42:01 <blau> and is there a way to send a message to another phone running android without a text message?
Nov 14 15:42:13 <languish> ping
Nov 14 15:42:16 <languish> :D
Nov 14 15:44:09 <blau> anyone play around with backing up and restoring their databases programatically?
Nov 14 15:48:06 <savid> heh.. just attempted to install dropbear on my G1 :)
Nov 14 15:48:30 <savid> doesn't work yet, but looks promising
Nov 14 15:49:07 <savid> the daemon runs,  but login doesn't work.
Nov 14 15:50:52 <vol> blau: no, but it doesn't seem like it would be all that hard. Simple sql.
Nov 14 15:51:07 <vol> unless you want something generalized that can handle any database with any data
Nov 14 15:52:58 <kRutOn> blau: I'm marshalling my stuff into XML.
Nov 14 15:53:05 <kRutOn> XMLStreamWriter and all that
Nov 14 15:54:43 <blau> vol, i was hoping to just take a dump, lol, and put it back and update the version number appropriately
Nov 14 15:54:58 <blau> so i could continue using my databasehelper
Nov 14 15:55:03 <blau> but maybe im thinking about it wrong
Nov 14 15:58:24 <vol> I take a dump maybe once a day, but I never put it back, nor do I put any sort of number on it.
Nov 14 15:58:28 <vol> that's pretty disgusting.
Nov 14 16:00:41 * skbohra wishes android on free runner as a Christmas gift
Nov 14 16:01:32 <blau> i wish android on sprint
Nov 14 16:01:44 <blau> in palm centro form factor
Nov 14 16:01:50 <jbq> Isn't there a fork that already runs on the FreeRunner?
Nov 14 16:02:07 <blau> although id probably buy a freerunner too
Nov 14 16:02:08 <blau> lol
Nov 14 16:02:12 <summatusmentis> blau: rumor has it it'll happen at some point
Nov 14 16:02:36 <jbq> I'd probably get a FreeRunner as well, actually.
Nov 14 16:02:59 <skbohra> sounds great
Nov 14 16:03:04 <SanMehat> pass.
Nov 14 16:03:17 <jbq> (but not until the official android tree runs on it)
Nov 14 16:03:50 <blau> freerunner has no hardbuttons?
Nov 14 16:04:18 <summatusmentis> freerunner has one hardbutton
Nov 14 16:04:29 <skbohra> isnt it a killing open source combination!
Nov 14 16:04:29 <jbq> Can always make them soft.
Nov 14 16:04:48 <blau> the screen is super small though isnt it?
Nov 14 16:07:32 <blau> will my laziness triumph?
Nov 14 16:08:06 <unix_lappy> freerunner only makes sense once the IMF is released.
Nov 14 16:08:19 <blau> tempted to install the latest version of my software on my phone potentially raping my finances
Nov 14 16:08:20 <blau> hmm
Nov 14 16:08:40 <unix_lappy> ?
Nov 14 16:09:20 <blau> i finished scheduling for my expense tracking program, but i dont really feel like actually testing it
Nov 14 16:09:33 <unix_lappy> blau: URL?
Nov 14 16:09:49 <blau> no url yet, an old version is in the market
Nov 14 16:09:52 <blau> dgMoney
Nov 14 16:09:57 <unix_lappy> (to screenshots?)
Nov 14 16:10:34 <blau> ill put some up give me a min or two
Nov 14 16:11:56 <blau> stupid google sites isnt working
Nov 14 16:11:57 <blau> sigh
Nov 14 16:12:37 <blau> upping osme pics now
Nov 14 16:16:32 <languish> zombie politician game in the market
Nov 14 16:18:29 <blau> http://sites.google.com/site/dgapplications/dg-money
Nov 14 16:18:49 <blau> http://sites.google.com/site/dgapplications/dg-money/screenshots
Nov 14 16:18:50 <blau> sorry
Nov 14 16:20:03 <blau> just random images from my test environment now
Nov 14 16:24:45 <KNY> blau, do you have to manually enter every expense or does it pull from sources online like mint.com?
Nov 14 16:24:45 <blau> What do you uys think of colored icons in the notification bar?
Nov 14 16:24:53 <blau> manually enter
Nov 14 16:25:17 <blau> im not a fan of mint
Nov 14 16:25:47 <jbq> The notification bar quickly looks like a bad-taste holiday tree if you use color icons.
Nov 14 16:26:02 <KNY> yeah, that could get out of hand
Nov 14 16:26:05 <jbq> (i.e. stick with black-and-white)
Nov 14 16:27:30 <blau> mint isnt up to the minute, it cant do anything with cash transactions, you cant recateggorize something on the fly
Nov 14 16:28:02 <blau> at least as far as i know
Nov 14 16:28:37 <KNY> I've never used it but my girlfriend does and her response to that is "well, it has its downfalls, but it's better than anything else I've seen"
Nov 14 16:29:57 <blau> maybe my next thing will be to implement some mint like stuff
Nov 14 16:30:07 <blau> id love to be able to reconcile my credit cards
Nov 14 16:30:16 <blau> so no rogue transactions get through
Nov 14 16:30:29 <trippss> can anyone comment on the bug/feature in the gmail client about not being able to undelete email? It is all to easy to accidentally click the delete button. there seems in fact to be no way to undelete an email on the android whatsoever.
Nov 14 16:30:53 <blau> tripps: goto trash
Nov 14 16:30:55 <blau> and move to inbox
Nov 14 16:31:23 <trippss> blau, how? i couldn't see any such option
Nov 14 16:31:24 <blau> althugh the one time i did it by accident, the email kept the trash label for a long time, and although the label dissapeared
Nov 14 16:31:40 <blau> menu - > view labels
Nov 14 16:31:51 <blau> trash is like 7th option down
Nov 14 16:32:12 <trippss> blau, right I see that but there's no way to remove the trash label.
Nov 14 16:33:18 <blau> i forget how i did it now :(
Nov 14 16:33:24 <blau> i remember getting it back in inbox
Nov 14 16:33:37 <blau> go inside it and hit menu
Nov 14 16:33:39 <blau> the back to inbox
Nov 14 16:34:52 <blau> hmm it got rid of the trash label now too
Nov 14 16:34:54 <blau> weird
Nov 14 16:35:17 <trippss> blau, I have no such context menu option, but that would make sense when you bring up the context menu inside the trash label.  I had to get online with the web client to move it to inbox, but like you said the trash label lingers on the phone, and as a consequence it doesn't appear on the android though it does on the web. strange indeed
Nov 14 16:36:32 <blau> its not context menu
Nov 14 16:36:35 <blau> its options menu
Nov 14 16:36:44 <blau> so you have to click to read the trashed message
Nov 14 16:38:14 <trippss> mmm tried that -> label: trash -> click message -> menu -> back to inbox. still there.
Nov 14 16:38:59 <blau> definately just worked now for me perfectly
Nov 14 16:39:32 <trippss> blau, mmm running RC30
Nov 14 16:39:38 <blau> me 2
Nov 14 16:40:02 <blau> ill try another one
Nov 14 16:40:11 <blau> the one i tried had 3 labels total
Nov 14 16:40:15 <blau> inbox, trash, and stores
Nov 14 16:40:26 <trippss> and that definitely doesn't work for me. yeah mine also had three labels including trash
Nov 14 16:40:59 <blau> oh scratch that
Nov 14 16:41:00 <blau> it didnt work
Nov 14 16:41:05 <blau> was looking at another amazon email
Nov 14 16:41:06 <blau> sorry
Nov 14 16:41:13 <trippss> no worries
Nov 14 16:41:20 <trippss> bug? feature?
Nov 14 16:41:26 <blau> id say bug
Nov 14 16:42:20 <trippss> where do i submit?
Nov 14 16:43:44 <blau> i dont know for gmail, since its closed source
Nov 14 16:43:49 <blau> otherwise id say source.android.com
Nov 14 16:45:59 <trippss> the weird thing is even after I move to inbox using gmail web, it still doesn't show on the inbox on the android (until there is another email in the thread)
Nov 14 16:48:48 <chris_> gmail bugs report: https://mail.google.com/support/bin/request.py?direct=1
Nov 14 16:51:05 <blau> that seems directed towards the web version
Nov 14 16:52:44 <tauno> the battery of the g1 drains really quickly :/ GPS and WIFI are off and I've been using it for like 10 mins in total.. and it's at 40% in 5 hours
Nov 14 16:52:57 <Disconnect> tauno: calibrate it.
Nov 14 16:53:08 <tauno> how?
Nov 14 16:53:12 <Disconnect> drain it until it won't even turn on, then charge it -uninterrupted- for at least 8 hours, 24 is best.
Nov 14 16:53:36 <Disconnect> the default calibration was clearly based on a unit that is - for whatever reason - unlike most of the others :(
Nov 14 16:53:42 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: after calibration what's your average usage time.
Nov 14 16:54:04 <tauno> ok, will try to do it somehow :) (I'm going to have a hard time keeping people away from it for 24 hours :P)
Nov 14 16:54:05 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: i can go 12 hours or more if i don't do much with gps. back and forth between wifi and 3g, little edge.
Nov 14 16:54:31 <Disconnect> tauno: the good news is you can use it while it charges. you just can't unplug it for -anything- (and i wouldn't crank the brightness all the way up or use gps)
Nov 14 16:54:54 <Disconnect> has anyone submitted a patch to the browser to get it to put the cache in.. the cache partition?
Nov 14 16:55:05 <Disconnect> seemed like an obvious low-hanging fruit for rc29/rc30 but..
Nov 14 16:55:10 * andyross wishes the backlight could be tuned lower than it can be, actually.  He likes to surf in bed at night.
Nov 14 16:55:21 <tauno> ..it can't?
Nov 14 16:55:30 <tauno> ah.. sry.. misread
Nov 14 16:55:36 <andyross> Or put the cache on the card.  Huge caches are a cherished tradition in the web world.
Nov 14 16:56:00 <Leeds> andyross: ditto... planning to do something about it :-)  the backlight setting panel won't go below 10/255, but I guess the hardware could
Nov 14 16:56:03 <Disconnect> andyross: ditto
Nov 14 16:56:08 * Disconnect wanders off, meeting
Nov 14 16:57:06 <vol> andyross: get a reading lamp, use it while using device.
Nov 14 16:57:23 <unix_lappy> vol: lower not higher.
Nov 14 16:58:01 <andyross> My wife and baby are annoyed enough at the backlight.  I think they'd draw the line at turning a lamp on at 3am. :)
Nov 14 16:58:24 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: wow, so you dont use voice at all.
Nov 14 16:58:50 <vol> andyross: go under the covers
Nov 14 16:58:56 * blau uses google sites for his android app website
Nov 14 16:58:57 <blau> wheee
Nov 14 16:59:08 <unix_lappy> that being said, already seeing first gen iPhone's not lasting more than 12 hours because if battery deterioration.
Nov 14 16:59:09 <tauno> huh.. it is a pain to use apps with white background.. thought that turning the backlight down would make things better but it's already almost @ the lowest value :(
Nov 14 16:59:21 <andyross> vol: That's what I do.   But as you might expect, I'd prefer a software solution to this requirement.
Nov 14 16:59:41 <unix_lappy> cant wait to see how the iPhone 3G fares as you're putting A LOT more cycles on the same battery.
Nov 14 17:00:18 <blau> we are still getting great battery life
Nov 14 17:00:29 <blau> i remember my first axim, hard to even get throuhg a day of work with it
Nov 14 17:00:34 <blau> and it didnt have ay connectivity
Nov 14 17:00:56 <vol> I just found the bubble level app the other day after someone mentioned it
Nov 14 17:00:59 <vol> and it continues to amaze me
Nov 14 17:01:00 <SanMehat> andyross: prv
Nov 14 17:01:08 <SanMehat> vol: yeah man i love it
Nov 14 17:01:13 <blau> i cant believe someone made a punching app
Nov 14 17:01:16 <vol> it is a phone, but I can use it as a level!
Nov 14 17:01:22 <vol> a punching app?
Nov 14 17:01:25 <vol> does it register how fast you punch?
Nov 14 17:01:26 <blau> i make one too and put it on the back burner cause i thought noone would ever do it
Nov 14 17:01:29 <blau> vol, yup
Nov 14 17:01:43 <blau> next someone will implement my idea for having phone tossing contests
Nov 14 17:02:04 <blau> my plan was to let you throw the phone up and itll tell you how high and fast and then compare to other people
Nov 14 17:02:10 <pawalls> Apparently there is some iPhone app called iThrown, which tells you how far the phone would have gone if you had let go.
Nov 14 17:02:15 * pawalls chuckles.
Nov 14 17:02:26 <rupeshgujare> Checkout Android running on beagle board - http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=3cetZMUWBHY
Nov 14 17:02:26 <blau> but i was waiting to start up an LLC so I cant really be sued for stupidity
Nov 14 17:02:58 <blau> pawalls: my idea was to force them to throw it by calculating the forces on the phone to determine if it was thrown up or not
Nov 14 17:04:33 <blau> am I gonna get sued for using windings fonts for my icons?
Nov 14 17:04:35 <pawalls> blau, That sounds like a difficult thing to do accurately.
Nov 14 17:04:49 <tauno> where is this thing called "bubble level" ?:)
Nov 14 17:04:51 <unix_lappy> rupeshgujare: very cool.
Nov 14 17:04:57 <jbq> Disconnect: it's obvious, but it's not a low-hanging fruit.
Nov 14 17:05:43 <jbq> (otherwise I'd have implemented it already)
Nov 14 17:05:53 <tauno> how do you guys find that kind of apps?.. you just try everything that comes to the market? :P
Nov 14 17:06:00 <umdk1d3> hmm has anyone figured out a way to get gmail working on the emulator (it gives that nice "no accounts on the device" error)
Nov 14 17:06:30 <trippss> Disconnect, I've had my g1 for a couple of weeks. is it still calibratable?
Nov 14 17:06:55 <rupeshgujare> unix_lappy : thanks
Nov 14 17:07:18 <unix_lappy> rupeshgujare: you releasing your source modifications?
Nov 14 17:07:32 <unix_lappy> and a functionality demo :-P
Nov 14 17:08:05 <rupeshgujare> i will be releasing binaries very soon..  followed by source code.
Nov 14 17:08:15 <umdk1d3> rupeshgujare: awesome @ beagleboard  =D
Nov 14 17:08:17 <blau> anyone wanna make me a clock icon :)
Nov 14 17:08:25 <blau> simple 2d grayscale for an options menu?
Nov 14 17:08:54 <umdk1d3> blau: ic_menu_recent_history.png kinda looks like a clock
Nov 14 17:08:55 <rupeshgujare> going through some internal company process till i release source code to community
Nov 14 17:09:15 <pawalls> I'm really waiting for the day that I can dock my phone, and use it to drive my USB peripherals and monitor.
Nov 14 17:09:33 <blau> redfly.com!
Nov 14 17:10:12 <pawalls> I mean.. Mini DisplayPort or Micro-DVI + Micro-USB.. we're not so far off, right? :-)
Nov 14 17:10:13 <unix_lappy> that's going to require some interesting connector innovation.
Nov 14 17:11:04 <unix_lappy> microDVI as a mechanism for video out as well as reasonable charge at ~500mA is going to be interesting.
Nov 14 17:11:47 <trippss> vol, that bubble app is too cool
Nov 14 17:11:48 <pawalls> unix_lappy, I'm not saying it has to be a single connector (though that would certainly be more convenient)
Nov 14 17:11:51 <blau> umdk: wheres that?
Nov 14 17:12:38 <unix_lappy> pawalls: it'd have to be some variant of dvi or USB.  as it's ubiquitous enough to be plugged in most anywhere for a quick charge.
Nov 14 17:13:15 <umdk1d3> doesnt apple have some sort of display adapter that provides power along with it?
Nov 14 17:14:03 <umdk1d3> blau: that icon?  in android.R.drawable
Nov 14 17:14:09 <pawalls> unix_lappy, I think ideally you'd still have a standard micro-usb port (which would be used for charging and data transfer)
Nov 14 17:14:24 <unix_lappy> uhh, extusb maybe ;-P
Nov 14 17:14:33 <blau> oh duh blah
Nov 14 17:14:34 <unix_lappy> data transfer != video out currently...
Nov 14 17:14:37 <pawalls> I'm assuming you need a second usb controller for doing usb host stuff.
Nov 14 17:14:38 <blau> im burnt out i think
Nov 14 17:14:39 <pawalls> unix_lappy, I know.
Nov 14 17:14:45 <pawalls> unix_lappy, I wasn't done :-P
Nov 14 17:15:37 <pawalls> unix_lappy, I'm saying have a standard micro-usb for the standard usb mass storage device purposes and charging.
Nov 14 17:15:49 <pawalls> unix_lappy, Just like the G1 and Blackberry do now.
Nov 14 17:16:48 <pawalls> unix_lappy, And if it's not possible to do USB host adapter simultaneously with charging, then have a second port for attaching USB peripherals.
Nov 14 17:17:01 <pawalls> And then one more for the Micro-DVI / Mini DisplayPort.
Nov 14 17:17:29 <pawalls> I realize it would take a minor miracle of engineering to cram all of the necessary chips into a reasonable form factor, but we're not *that* far off ;-)
Nov 14 17:19:23 <d0netsFN> we need a sirius app
Nov 14 17:19:47 <brocktice> d0netsFN, I don't think GPS receivers can get satellite radio... can they?
Nov 14 17:19:52 <blau> look at redfly.com
Nov 14 17:19:58 <vol> ... what?
Nov 14 17:20:01 <vol> seriously?
Nov 14 17:20:15 <blau> sirius is online too guys
Nov 14 17:20:19 <andyross> GPS kinda is satellite radio.  Or do you mean stuff like XM?
Nov 14 17:20:20 <blau> oh wait wrong url
Nov 14 17:20:20 <blau> lol
Nov 14 17:20:27 <vol> ... yeah that's not it blau
Nov 14 17:20:28 <pawalls> Anyway, I didn't intend to get into implementation details. I just think it will be great when I can dock my phone when I get home and use my keyboard/mouse/30" monitor with it.
Nov 14 17:20:30 <blau> http://www.celiocorp.com/
Nov 14 17:21:08 <brocktice> andyross, like XM
Nov 14 17:21:10 <mattl> hey, does anyone have the details on which parts of the g1 are non-free? like drivers for wifi, etc?
Nov 14 17:21:16 <brocktice> since he said sirius
Nov 14 17:21:45 <vol> if it's not in the android source, it's probably non-free :P
Nov 14 17:21:50 <pawalls> blau, Are you talking to me?
Nov 14 17:22:10 <vol> blau: this page is filled with marketing weaselwords
Nov 14 17:22:21 <blau> vol, its been reviewed
Nov 14 17:22:26 <blau> so it does exist
Nov 14 17:22:26 <brocktice> Like hell it's got no CPU
Nov 14 17:22:34 <blau> the price has been chopped in more than half tho
Nov 14 17:22:54 <blau> it looks like it just takes display capabilites over
Nov 14 17:22:56 <blau> and input
Nov 14 17:23:09 <vol> ...
Nov 14 17:23:11 <vol> ok, hold on
Nov 14 17:23:13 <vol> what does it DO
Nov 14 17:23:15 <brocktice> handles a variety of operating systems?
Nov 14 17:23:23 <d0netsFN> brocktice i ment sirius internet radio
Nov 14 17:23:23 <brocktice> You mean like different versions of WM?
Nov 14 17:23:31 <brocktice> d0netsFN, yeah I know
Nov 14 17:23:36 <brocktice> oh wait
Nov 14 17:23:38 <blau> it basically gives you a higher resolution with big keyboard
Nov 14 17:23:39 <brocktice> no I didn't know
Nov 14 17:23:44 <blau> of win mobile
Nov 14 17:23:45 <vol> because I saw someone say "get sirius radio with GPS receiver"
Nov 14 17:23:48 <vol> and I guess that's not this
Nov 14 17:23:53 <blau> that you connect to a phone
Nov 14 17:24:20 <brocktice> I didn't realize that you could get it over the internet
Nov 14 17:24:51 <d0netsFN> yea
Nov 14 17:24:55 <brocktice> blau, Like the Palm Foleo, I think it's doomed to failure
Nov 14 17:24:58 <d0netsFN> you can click player on their website
Nov 14 17:25:01 <vol> ok, so this is just a keyboard and a screen that connects to your phone?
Nov 14 17:25:03 <vol> yawn.
Nov 14 17:25:04 <brocktice> Why would I pay that much for something with no guts.
Nov 14 17:25:15 <brocktice> When I can get a real computer the same size, more or less?
Nov 14 17:25:17 <d0netsFN> but like windblows mobile has a player
Nov 14 17:25:21 <d0netsFN> that relays the stream and such
Nov 14 17:25:33 <brocktice> d0netsFN, There's a player that's not on the market.
Nov 14 17:25:44 <brocktice> I downloaded it at one point but had to hard reset, now I can't remember what it's called
Nov 14 17:25:55 <brocktice> Kind of an android port of Amarok
Nov 14 17:25:55 <blau> its got better battery lie than a real computer
Nov 14 17:26:00 <blau> youd ont have to worry about sinking
Nov 14 17:26:39 <pawalls> vol, I think the point is that you have your "real" computer in your pocket at all times. You carry it around and use it whenever you need it.. Then when you get home, you plug it into a dummy terminal so that you can make use of your comfy desk configuration.
Nov 14 17:27:04 <blau> i wouldnt buy one
Nov 14 17:27:07 <vol> or, use my "real" computer at home at my comfy desk
Nov 14 17:27:12 <vol> instead of running off of a cellphone
Nov 14 17:27:14 <blau> but i think they have a good idea that needs some improvements
Nov 14 17:27:17 <vol> and stepping back a decade in processing power
Nov 14 17:27:23 <blau> vol, take it on travel
Nov 14 17:27:36 <blau> im assuming its lighter than a laptop
Nov 14 17:27:37 <pawalls> vol, I'm not saying the one on Redfly is a good buy.
Nov 14 17:27:40 <blau> and doesnt get as hot
Nov 14 17:27:46 <pawalls> But it's a demonstration of what will be possible a few years down the road.
Nov 14 17:27:52 <vol> meh.
Nov 14 17:28:05 <pawalls> If you have a phone that is powerful enough for all of your computing needs (including gaming?) why not?
Nov 14 17:28:08 <vol> bluetooth keyboards are damned cheap, and that's half the equation
Nov 14 17:28:11 <vol> gaming?
Nov 14 17:28:12 <vol> hahahahaha
Nov 14 17:28:39 <pawalls> vol, Hey.. I can play Quake1 on my phone ;-)
Nov 14 17:28:47 <blau> redfly is pretty cheap
Nov 14 17:28:57 <blau> have you ever looked at those fold up keyboard for pda's?
Nov 14 17:29:01 <blau> they are like 100 alone
Nov 14 17:29:23 <d0netsFN> i wonder how hard it would be to port this
Nov 14 17:29:24 <d0netsFN> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sipie
Nov 14 17:29:34 <pawalls> I honestly wouldn't buy the redfly thing.. I'm hoping someday down the road there will be nice docks like this for phones that use standard connectors (and not some proprietary citrix configuration).
Nov 14 17:29:41 <vol> pawalls: yes, poorly : P
Nov 14 17:30:12 <blau> quake 1 using the compass and accelerometers to aim would rock
Nov 14 17:30:24 <blau> stick it on a helmet
Nov 14 17:30:30 <blau> and you have a portable vr system
Nov 14 17:30:30 <d0netsFN> lmfao
Nov 14 17:30:31 <blau> lol
Nov 14 17:30:46 <blau> 2 g1's over each eye
Nov 14 17:30:50 <d0netsFN> i could see myself with a helmet on
Nov 14 17:30:53 <blau> showing slightly different images to create 3d
Nov 14 17:31:17 <blau> zomg, augmented reality!
Nov 14 17:31:48 <blau> use the cameras on the g1 and place them in front of your eyes
Nov 14 17:31:52 <Disconnect> ...isn't that what google compass-mode is for?
Nov 14 17:31:52 <pawalls> vol, Also.. "gaming" to a decent number of people is being able to play freecel :-P
Nov 14 17:31:56 <blau> then plac stuff in the real world!
Nov 14 17:32:05 <Disconnect> or zombie hunt
Nov 14 17:32:05 <pawalls> vol, And obviously we've already covered that use case.
Nov 14 17:33:31 <blau> forget the redfly
Nov 14 17:33:36 <blau> i wanna talk about my g1 vr system
Nov 14 17:33:54 <blau> who can make me a helmet and goggle system that i can drop 2 g1's into?
Nov 14 17:35:33 <pawalls> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/wii/
Nov 14 17:35:38 <pawalls> ;-)
Nov 14 17:36:30 <pawalls> Bluetooth head tracking... part of the battle? :-P
Nov 14 17:36:39 <brocktice> damn where did I find that player before...
Nov 14 17:36:42 <brocktice> google is failing me
Nov 14 17:38:23 <blau> lol i have 8 notifications in my notification bar
Nov 14 17:41:52 <brocktice> AHA
Nov 14 17:41:54 <brocktice> http://ambientmp.sourceforge.net/index.html
Nov 14 17:42:19 <blau> thats busy
Nov 14 17:42:44 <brocktice> It is
Nov 14 17:42:46 <blau> why is there a cursor
Nov 14 17:42:47 <brocktice> didn't like that
Nov 14 17:43:00 <brocktice> It does play streams
Nov 14 17:43:15 <brocktice> That's a good question
Nov 14 17:43:18 <brocktice> Emulator screenshot?
Nov 14 17:43:42 <blau> oh yeah its a linux cursor
Nov 14 17:43:46 <blau> ubuntu i think
Nov 14 17:43:56 <blau> i need sleep
Nov 14 17:44:19 * Disconnect read 'sheep' and was rather confused
Nov 14 17:44:26 <brocktice> heh
Nov 14 17:44:58 <blau> sweet got my notifications for new items to bring up the item editor screen if you click em
Nov 14 17:45:12 <blau> Now I just need a sweet grayscale icon
Nov 14 17:45:25 <blau> ic_menu_recent_history.png
Nov 14 17:45:37 <blau> which of these icons look good for a notification that a scheduled expense was recorded?
Nov 14 17:45:42 <SplasPood> What's the largest flash card the G1 can support?
Nov 14 17:45:47 <SplasPood> 16?
Nov 14 17:45:53 <brocktice> SplasPood, Should just be largest SDHC capacity
Nov 14 17:45:55 <KNY> SplasPood, I believe engadget tested 32gb
Nov 14 17:46:03 <Disconnect> 16 is the largest out there afaik but in theory it'll go as high as microsdhc can go
Nov 14 17:46:18 <SplasPood> let's see..
Nov 14 17:46:26 <brocktice> If you have enough money to procure a card larger than 32gb right now, please give me some.
Nov 14 17:46:40 <SplasPood> As of September 2008[update], microSD cards are available in capacities from 64 MB to 16 GB.[3] A 12 GB version was developed by SanDisk but never released.[citation needed] Cards 4 GB and larger are only available in the newer SDHC format.
Nov 14 17:47:30 <Disconnect> SplasPood: yah but i can cite for a fact that there are non-sdhc 4gb cards out there. its not spec but they exist (I have two, from a wootoff. my ebook reader, e90 and g1 all like them just fine)
Nov 14 17:47:47 <SplasPood> hrm, newegg only seems to have 8GB
Nov 14 17:48:08 <bricode> Does anyone know what user/group is required to open up the wpa_supplicant socket?
Nov 14 17:49:45 <d0netsFN> ok if i setup a google code page for a sirius player, anyone interested in hopping on board?
Nov 14 17:49:58 <d0netsFN> the only source i have is sipie
Nov 14 17:50:09 <brocktice> d0netsFN, The ambient music player won't work?
Nov 14 17:50:19 <d0netsFN> im not sure
Nov 14 17:51:03 * d0netsFN tries
Nov 14 17:51:41 <brocktice> I guess it probably doesn't allow logins
Nov 14 17:54:32 <ramzez> does anyone knows what is the amount of memory available on the emulator (RAM)?
Nov 14 17:55:01 <fadden> adb shell cat /proc/meminfo
Nov 14 17:55:14 <andyross> SplasPood: I got a 16G SanDisk card from an ebay seller. Works great.  It's a brand new part, and the channel is still filling.
Nov 14 17:55:22 <blau> ugh i messed something upppppp
Nov 14 17:55:35 <blau> somehow im passing 17
Nov 14 17:55:45 <ramzez> fadden: thanks
Nov 14 17:56:18 <ramzez> fadden: MemTotal: 94572Kb = 94Mb, right? hmm and MemFree is only 8Mb, is that correct?
Nov 14 17:57:13 <fadden> MemTotal tells you how much memory is available to Linux.  The other numbers require some interpretation.
Nov 14 17:57:57 <ramzez> fadden: i am trying to load a shared library which is 11mb and i get dlopen faild, wonder if that' scause not enough memory
Nov 14 17:58:34 <jbq> does it work if you load a smaller one instead?
Nov 14 17:59:17 <ramzez> fadden: also after i just launch the emulator the memfree valie is 15mb, is there away to increase it perhaps?
Nov 14 18:00:02 <fadden> The system will release pages and kill processes automatically to free up memory when necessary.
Nov 14 18:00:32 <andyross> ramzez: be very careful when interpreting MemFree, the kernel is probably smarter than you are.
Nov 14 18:01:03 <ramzez> fadden: right, is there any way to debug and see why the library fails to load? i know c++ is not yet supported, but there should be some way
Nov 14 18:01:27 <blau> somehow the pending intent im donig is messing up wtf
Nov 14 18:01:43 <fadden> ramzez: diags are probably going to stdout
Nov 14 18:01:54 <ramzez> andyross: i am sure it is, just trying to see what's happening
Nov 14 18:02:07 <fadden> A trivial program that dlopens the lib might allow you to see the failure.
Nov 14 18:02:16 <fadden> For apps, stdout goes to /dev/null
Nov 14 18:02:27 <jbq> blau: trying to create multiple pendingintents that look almost the same, and they all look the same when they're received?
Nov 14 18:02:52 <ramzez> fadden: the library which is smaller loads fine for me, is there a way to switch on stdout, or it goes to logcat?
Nov 14 18:03:00 <blau> jbq: multiple pending intents with an extra, the extra winds up being the same but unrelated to any of the ones i created
Nov 14 18:03:18 <andyross> The problem is that there's always *something* to do with the memory.  If you read a page from a file, the kernel will leave it around in the cache (so it's in Cached, not MemFree), etc... Pages backed by disk files (e.g. code, or swap -- but there's no swap configred on the G1) aren't free, but can be ejected instantly if necessary, etc..
Nov 14 18:03:20 <blau> yeah they all wind up being the same tho
Nov 14 18:03:58 <jbq> yeah, your pendingintents aren't different enough from one another, and so the system re-uses the first one that was created and that matches the new ones that you are creating.
Nov 14 18:04:02 <fadden> ramzez: not really
Nov 14 18:04:03 <ramzez> fadden: i am not that good with linux
Nov 14 18:04:34 <blau> jbq: hmm so how do i fix this?
Nov 14 18:04:48 <jbq> blau: the doc for pendingintents explains quite well which fields the system uses to distinguish (or collapse/merge) pendingintents.
Nov 14 18:04:58 <blau> ok ill read
Nov 14 18:05:05 <ramzez> fadden: if someone writes a driver with the source google released, how would they debug such problems, if you know ?
Nov 14 18:05:14 <jbq> typically, using a unique data field.
Nov 14 18:05:49 <andyross> ramzez: Write a small C program that calls dlopen()/dlsym() on your library, run it from the shell, and see what errors are reported.
Nov 14 18:05:59 <ramzez> anyross: that works fine
Nov 14 18:06:16 <blau> jbq: what was confusing me was that it was using a pendingintent that had been old
Nov 14 18:06:18 <andyross> OK, then write a tiny JNI library that works, do the same from there.
Nov 14 18:06:30 <ramzez> andyross: already did
Nov 14 18:06:31 <blau> like i set it up, modified my program, then edited and reran a bunch of times
Nov 14 18:06:37 <blau> but i was still getting the reallly old one run
Nov 14 18:06:50 <jbq> yeah, pendingintents can survive all the way to the next runtime restart.
Nov 14 18:06:53 <fadden> ramzez: so what are you using to load the library?
Nov 14 18:06:55 <ramzez> andyross: the test app which we did runs fine and uses about 1/3 of our code
Nov 14 18:06:56 <andyross> Then I don't understand what the problem is.  If you can bootstrap just a tiny library, you can then load the rest of the world on your own.
Nov 14 18:06:57 <fadden> (when it fails)
Nov 14 18:06:59 <ramzez> JNI
Nov 14 18:07:28 <fadden> ramzez: does loading from JNI work or not work?
Nov 14 18:07:48 <JuanDaugherty> is anybody actually using Android in a distributed device?
Nov 14 18:08:16 <JuanDaugherty> s/distributed/generally available/
Nov 14 18:08:16 <infobot> JuanDaugherty meant: is anybody actually using Android in a generally available device?
Nov 14 18:08:32 <fadden> The generally unavailable devices are much harder to use.
Nov 14 18:08:37 <vinse> you mean other than the g1?
Nov 14 18:08:47 <JuanDaugherty> infobot: version
Nov 14 18:08:48 <infobot> from memory, version is Kernel: uname -r.  Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -1.  Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_.  Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -d
Nov 14 18:10:09 * JuanDaugherty did not know of the g1 till just now.
Nov 14 18:10:49 <SplasPood> andyross: can you give me the model number?
Nov 14 18:10:53 <fadden> JuanDaugherty: I have terrible news for you.  President Kennedy has been shot.
Nov 14 18:10:58 <blau> bah dont udnerstand :(
Nov 14 18:11:16 * JuanDaugherty guesses there is no iphone effort worth looking for.
Nov 14 18:11:23 <ramzez> fadden, anydross: so we have to libraries, one is a test library about 2mb and another one is kind of full implemeation which is about 11mb, they use the same JNI implementation, the smaller one loads fine and does what we want, when we try to load bigger one the LogCat reports: unable to dlopen(thenameoflib.so): connot find library, no exception thrown
Nov 14 18:11:25 <andyross> SplasPood: not easily, I don't think it's on the card (not enough real estate).  Just a SanDisk logo.
Nov 14 18:11:29 <JuanDaugherty> fadden, yes, I remember.
Nov 14 18:12:09 <ramzez> fadden, andyross: but the library is definatley there
Nov 14 18:12:28 <blau> and the only other reference i found was posted elsewhere a ton of times with no answers
Nov 14 18:12:30 <fadden> ramzez: you're using System.load() ?
Nov 14 18:12:37 <ramzez> fadden: yes
Nov 14 18:12:45 <andyross> OK, so in the one that works, add a call to dlopen() with the full path name of the second library.  Then call dlsym() to get your OnLoad() callback (I'm assuming you're doing that instead of the name-based mechanism).  And call it.  Now you've loaded both libraries.  If something fails, then log the error.
Nov 14 18:12:59 <andyross> Sorry, JNI_OnLoad of course.
Nov 14 18:13:11 <fadden> Somebody's getting all jiggy with the JNI.
Nov 14 18:13:28 * andyross has been having fun.
Nov 14 18:14:10 <blau> jbq: i cant seem to find any reference to reuse in the javaadoc
Nov 14 18:15:09 <d0netsFN> hebs@hebs-desktop:~$ svn co http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/svn/Tuner/trunk
Nov 14 18:15:10 <d0netsFN> svn: error while loading shared libraries: libneon-gnutls.so.27: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Nov 14 18:15:15 <ramzez> fadden, andyross: i guess it is one possiblity, the smaller one uses only 5 static libraries which are essential for our test, the big one uses all of our libraries
Nov 14 18:15:17 <d0netsFN> any idears?
Nov 14 18:15:38 <jbq> "If the creating application later re-retrieves the same kind of PendingIntent (same operation, same Intent action, data, categories, and components, and same flags), it will receive a PendingIntent representing the same token if that is still valid"
Nov 14 18:15:39 <andyross> A transitive link error would be a pretty good candidate for why it won't load.
Nov 14 18:15:59 <d0netsFN> im in ubuntu 8.10
Nov 14 18:15:59 <ramzez> fadden, andyross: so i guess your suggest writing an app and compile libraries as shared and try loading them one by one in this one?
Nov 14 18:16:11 <blau> yeah i cant read :(
Nov 14 18:16:29 <ramzez> andyross: eventhough it was compiled as shared? i thought it wouldn't link in that case
Nov 14 18:16:54 <fadden> Shared lib A might depend on shared lib B.
Nov 14 18:16:55 <ramzez> andyross: i would also assume it would through exception, here it's just silently fails
Nov 14 18:17:03 <andyross> Shared libraries can require other shared libraries.  If they're not there, you get an error back.
Nov 14 18:17:16 <ramzez> fadden: the only once we link is against libc and libgcc
Nov 14 18:17:21 <fadden> ramzez: the android ld.so doesn't provide much detail back on failure.
Nov 14 18:17:27 <fadden> libgcc?!
Nov 14 18:17:41 <SplasPood> andyross: aight
Nov 14 18:17:48 <fadden> oh wait, I thought you said glibc
Nov 14 18:17:58 <andyross> (I think he means the static libgcc.a -- the toolchain requires that be passed explicitly)
Nov 14 18:18:02 <fadden> Right, that's fine.
Nov 14 18:18:05 <ramzez> andyross: yes
Nov 14 18:18:20 <jbq> blau: it's easy to gloss over that part - it bit me too (and I you that you and I aren't the only ones).
Nov 14 18:18:37 <fadden> If a trivial C program can open it with dlopen(), it should work with System.load().  They boil down to the same thing.
Nov 14 18:18:59 <fadden> Only difference could be in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but that should be the same either way.
Nov 14 18:19:26 <ramzez> andyross, fadden:so i can try writting a simple c app which will try loading it on emulator see if that's succesful?
Nov 14 18:19:54 <fadden> ramzez: yes, should be about 5 lines of code.
Nov 14 18:20:03 <andyross> Probably a good idea, yes.  Much easier to test a shell app for this sort of thing than a GUI application
Nov 14 18:20:18 <ramzez> fadden, andyross: thanks a lot for your help
Nov 14 18:20:58 <blau> thanks for hte help
Nov 14 18:22:43 <tauno> simple noob q: how do I tell my listview that it should display itself nicely on a white background?
Nov 14 18:24:49 <blau> got my pending intents working
Nov 14 18:24:50 <blau> sweet
Nov 14 18:25:08 <romainguy___> tauno: what's wrong?
Nov 14 18:29:06 <tauno> romainguy___ I can't really understand what I'm doing anymore I guess.. I see http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/R.style.html#Widget_ListView_White but I don't know how to set it to the listview.
Nov 14 18:29:37 <tauno> 12+ h workdays are leaving a mark I guess :/
Nov 14 18:29:49 <romainguy___> you can't really use this directly
Nov 14 18:30:04 <romainguy___> the easiest thing to do is to change the theme of your activity to Theme.Light
Nov 14 18:31:09 <tauno> oh, I see.. I was thinking it has to be me.. there has to be a way :/
Nov 14 18:31:16 <poetic_folly|G5> hey what's the command (os x) to delete all files with a certain name recursively? like Thumbs.db ;)
Nov 14 18:31:20 <blau> im feature happy with my finance program now!
Nov 14 18:31:44 <blau> poetic: cant you just spotlight for thumbs.db?
Nov 14 18:31:50 <poetic_folly|G5> nah its unix
Nov 14 18:31:53 <poetic_folly|G5> command line
Nov 14 18:31:54 <tric> poetic: find -name "Thumbs.db" -exec rm "{}" \;
Nov 14 18:32:04 * JuanDaugherty wonders if the Qualcomm cpu is distinctive, a clone of ARM, Intel, PPC or what.
Nov 14 18:32:13 <tric> find /path -name ...
Nov 14 18:32:22 <jbq> JuanDaugherty: in the G1?
Nov 14 18:32:29 <JuanDaugherty> y
Nov 14 18:32:44 <andyross> tric: xargs!  xargs!  pipe through xargs!  -exec ... Goodness.  Raised in a barn, were we?
Nov 14 18:33:13 <poetic_folly|G5> thanks tric. ;)
Nov 14 18:33:33 <poetic_folly|G5> andyross... what would you recommend is better?
Nov 14 18:33:35 <jbq> JuanDaugherty: contains 2 standard ARM cores (I think 1136 and 926)
Nov 14 18:33:52 <tric> andyross: -exec fits the most aswell. forking rm isnt that expensive
Nov 14 18:33:53 <JuanDaugherty> ah, thx
Nov 14 18:33:59 <fadden> find . -name Thumbs.db -print0 | xargs -0 rm
Nov 14 18:34:12 <andyross> poetic_folly|G5: tric's advice is fine.  It's just clumsy. :)
Nov 14 18:34:14 <fadden> (that's the new fancy way)
Nov 14 18:34:16 <poetic_folly|G5> heh
Nov 14 18:34:48 <poetic_folly|G5> uh or... find * | grep Thumbs.db | xargs rm -f
Nov 14 18:34:50 <poetic_folly|G5> ?
Nov 14 18:35:10 <ramzez> thanks to everyone, the workers go home :)
Nov 14 18:35:11 <tric> thats the worst i guess
Nov 14 18:35:12 <andyross> poetic_folly|G5: Yes.  Although on OS X you'll probably want the -print0/-0 stuff fadden mentioned.
Nov 14 18:35:16 <ramzez> leave
Nov 14 18:35:19 <poetic_folly|G5> k
Nov 14 18:35:29 <umdk1d3> mm you could always come up with something worse  ;)
Nov 14 18:35:43 <blau> hey guys what do you think is the best solution for interacting with google calendar?
Nov 14 18:35:54 <tric> grep matches some dirs aswell, atleast use grep -E "Thumbs.db$"
Nov 14 18:36:20 <andyross> worse: for i in `find / | fgrep Thumbs.db`; do rm -f "$i"; done
Nov 14 18:37:07 <kRutOn> maybe you could could have several more pipes in there to cut down on efficiency
Nov 14 18:37:17 <JuanDaugherty> startin to look like g1 and iphone will be the unix and dos, resp. in my mobile world
Nov 14 18:37:48 <kRutOn> JuanDaugherty: Yeah, I just configured my G1 to do EAP-PEAP authentication for my corporate network... try doing that with the iPhone
Nov 14 18:38:32 <kRutOn> Although the WifiWatchdog is really aggressive in blacklisting the AP if it doesn't respond immediately...
Nov 14 18:38:35 <JuanDaugherty> i generally don't cross the streamms without a justifying corporate rate
Nov 14 18:38:46 <JuanDaugherty> *streams
Nov 14 18:39:06 <kRutOn> You have a proton pack?
Nov 14 18:39:14 <kRutOn> TWO proton packs?
Nov 14 18:39:58 <JuanDaugherty> :)
Nov 14 18:40:19 <RyeBrye> anyone else notice that you can downgrade in the market app?
Nov 14 18:40:34 <RyeBrye> not the firmware  - but individual apps
Nov 14 18:41:11 <wastrel> hi
Nov 14 18:41:26 <wastrel> my photos app was crashing
Nov 14 18:41:31 <wastrel> but i rebooted the phone and now it's ok
Nov 14 18:41:51 <RyeBrye> oh, hmm... I don't see it now. Last night I did a factory reset on my phone and the market app showed under "my downloads" all the stuff that I had downloaded before - even older versions... but today... I only see stuff I currently have - strange, but not like I care
Nov 14 18:42:22 <blau> rye: ive seen old stuff periodically too
Nov 14 18:42:46 <RyeBrye> I even re-installed an older version of a few programs by accident
Nov 14 18:43:22 <wastrel> yeah when you upgrade the old one is in there still
Nov 14 18:43:33 <wastrel> i've seen that
Nov 14 18:43:46 <Bally3> lo
Nov 14 18:43:56 <kRutOn> RyeBrye: maybe it's in the cache directory, but when you factory reset it blows cache away
Nov 14 18:44:01 <RyeBrye> yeah, but I was seeing stuff from before a factory reset
Nov 14 18:44:10 <RyeBrye> strange
Nov 14 18:44:44 <RyeBrye> irrelevant, really, but it did seem to indicate that the "my downloads" is not entirely stored on the phone
Nov 14 18:45:59 <wastrel> there must be a manifest of what apps are installed on the system
Nov 14 18:48:36 <SplasPood> Can android apps call a given system binary or are they prevented from doing so?
Nov 14 18:49:23 <zhobbs> SplasPood: I think they can, pTerminal and Term.apk do it
Nov 14 18:49:33 <SplasPood> zhobbs: hrm...  haha.. yea good point!
Nov 14 18:49:36 <zhobbs> Term.apk uses a private API call though, pTerminal doesn't
Nov 14 18:50:03 <kRutOn> SplasPood: They just have the user app_XX permissions
Nov 14 18:50:23 <SplasPood> kRutOn: yea, but I'll call a suid bin using it :)
Nov 14 18:50:48 <SplasPood> I'm bored/learning so I thought I'd try to make a little frontend to the iptables tether method
Nov 14 18:52:24 <SplasPood> was the pTerminal source made available?
Nov 14 18:53:34 <umdk1d3> hmm does SimpleCursorAdapter getItemId use the _id from the underlying cursor if provided?
Nov 14 18:54:04 <zhobbs> SplasPood: no, but the Term app source is available, you could use the private API calls, just can't use the android.jar that comes with the SDK
Nov 14 18:54:14 <zhobbs> umdk1d3: yeah
Nov 14 18:55:07 <umdk1d3> awesome  ^.^
Nov 14 18:55:38 <SplasPood> zhobbs: heh, maybe eventually I'll understand everything you just said ;)
Nov 14 18:57:12 <kRutOn> SplasPood: What you could do is make it call iptables to route bootps port to a >1024 port and then use a Java DHCPD server and the hostapd binary
Nov 14 18:58:16 <SplasPood> kRutOn: why do that when I can just become root and call everything like normal?
Nov 14 18:58:35 <kRutOn> SplasPood: I'm just saying that's a way to make it more convenient
Nov 14 18:58:49 <kRutOn> you'd still have to do the other stuff
Nov 14 18:59:14 <kRutOn> but you wouldn't need to statically set your IP on your computer, you'd just join your phone's "AP" SSID and it would give you an IP address
Nov 14 18:59:31 <SplasPood> kRutOn: yea my existing setup runs dnsmasq for DHCP/DNS
Nov 14 19:05:48 <nikkelitous> I can report 100% success in installing apps to the SD card using a loopback device!
Nov 14 19:06:13 <unix_lappy> nikkelitous: write it up :-)
Nov 14 19:06:25 <RyeBrye> on da wiki :)
Nov 14 19:06:31 <nikkelitous> I saved my steps.
Nov 14 19:06:45 <nikkelitous> It's a bit slow to load but it works.
Nov 14 19:07:03 <nikkelitous> I now have as much space as I want/need.
Nov 14 19:07:44 <RyeBrye> I was thinking of removing /cache and making it a symlink pointing to somewhere on /sdcard
Nov 14 19:07:50 <RyeBrye> and making /data twice as big
Nov 14 19:08:02 <nikkelitous> That could possibly work, didn't try that at all.
Nov 14 19:08:18 <RyeBrye> yours gives more storage, obviously
Nov 14 19:08:18 <unix_lappy> yea, even if you got it to work, speed, persistence would be the major problems that come to mind.
Nov 14 19:08:42 <unix_lappy> nikkelitous: you're operating on a rooted G1 correct?
Nov 14 19:08:52 <mikey|> hello all, im trying to dynamically add views to a viewflipper. I have an xml file which holds the layout which I want to use for all views, but when I try viewflipper.add, it says the child already has a parent.
Nov 14 19:08:59 <nikkelitous> unix_lappy: Yes.  Have to.
Nov 14 19:09:04 <mikey|> Any ideas how i could work around this?
Nov 14 19:09:31 <unix_lappy> nikkelitous: heh, I thought you had someone how found a way to do a loopback without root...which would be a more laudable accomplishment ;-)
Nov 14 19:09:32 <zhobbs> mikey|: you are inflating them?
Nov 14 19:09:33 <nikkelitous> Doing it for myself so I don't really worry about persistence as I can just keep it in mind.
Nov 14 19:09:42 <nikkelitous> unix_lappy: Yeah, but no.
Nov 14 19:10:14 <mikey|> no, my code is something like this: setcontentlayout(...), viewflipper = findbyid(...)
Nov 14 19:10:16 <nikkelitous> Hmmm, the myfaves app doesn't like being on SD card for some reason...
Nov 14 19:10:32 <mikey|> then viewflipper.add(the same id again)
Nov 14 19:11:58 <zhobbs> mikey|: you are passing a View object right?
Nov 14 19:12:23 <mikey|> yeah, via viewflipper.addView
Nov 14 19:12:28 <romainguy___> mikey|: you can't pass a View that already exists in the view hierarchy
Nov 14 19:12:32 <mikey|> but using findbyid
Nov 14 19:12:35 <romainguy___> since it already has a parent
Nov 14 19:12:41 <romainguy___> like the error message mentions
Nov 14 19:12:53 <tauno> mikey|, before adding, do: ((ViewGroup)theObjectYouTryToAdd.getParent()).removeView(theObjectYouTryToAdd); <- close your eyes and hope for the best :>
Nov 14 19:13:05 <mikey|> romainguy___: say i was to make a new xml file with the layout which will be used by all views, would that work?
Nov 14 19:13:13 <mikey|> tauno: thanks, will try
Nov 14 19:13:15 <ozzloy> sometimes i add contacts like "Misty ?AAA" and when i search for "AAA", i get nothing, but "Misty" works.  is this normal behavior?
Nov 14 19:13:23 <romainguy___> tauno: that will work but it's a very odd way to do it
Nov 14 19:13:33 <tauno> mikey|, better not.. romain will scream at you for doing it wrong
Nov 14 19:13:34 <zhobbs> tauno: yeah, that's not efficient
Nov 14 19:13:34 <tauno> :P
Nov 14 19:13:40 <mikey|> lol
Nov 14 19:13:47 <nikkelitous> unix_lappy: You know, with how things are, no true hacker should be without root on the G1.  And at the moment this hack is definitely only for true hackers.
Nov 14 19:14:08 <SanMehat> nikkelitous: what happens when you enable USB mass storage on a host?...
Nov 14 19:14:24 <romainguy___> the true hackers that couldn't get root without our huge mistake of letting an open root console on the system? :)
Nov 14 19:14:41 <SanMehat> nikkelitous: any applications holding references to /sdcard will get killed, *and* your loopback device will likely start to fail in incredible ways
Nov 14 19:14:49 <nikkelitous> SanMehat: It doesn't work do to the loopback.
Nov 14 19:14:55 <wastrel> you're calling it a mistake now ? :]
Nov 14 19:14:59 <tauno> romainguy___ I use one single view in multiple activities.. and you better don't want to know how I stop the "flickering" that happens when you change activities and remove the view from the old activity and add it to the new one :P
Nov 14 19:15:06 <wastrel> not a "huge gift to android early adopters"
Nov 14 19:15:10 <nikkelitous> SanMehat: Like I said, it's a VERY rough hack only for people who know what they're doing.
Nov 14 19:15:22 <SanMehat> nikkelitous: right.
Nov 14 19:15:25 <romainguy___> tauno: you are reusing the same view across activities???????? why would you do that??
Nov 14 19:15:33 <zhobbs> tauno: shouldn't you create a new instance of that View?
Nov 14 19:15:46 <romainguy___> wastrel: given that it turned this channel in a boring 24/24 discussion about root, yes it's a mistake :)
Nov 14 19:15:55 <ozzloy> romainguy___: yeah, about that... how does that work exactly?  is every text field also accidentally echoed into a root shell in the background?
Nov 14 19:16:10 <romainguy___> ozzloy: ask SanMehat or swetland :)
Nov 14 19:16:12 <ozzloy> if so, how does that accidentally happen?
Nov 14 19:16:17 <SanMehat> romainguy___: i'm tired of explaining it
Nov 14 19:16:31 <nikkelitous> It could be extended using unionfs or making it so that apps would get killed when you mount the UMS but still have copies of "critical" apps in the directory after the mount.
Nov 14 19:16:32 <ozzloy> you could point me at an explanation
Nov 14 19:16:38 <ozzloy> that would be appreciated
Nov 14 19:16:42 <SanMehat> i think engadget had one
Nov 14 19:16:47 <wastrel> yeah where's the faq for this channel anyway
Nov 14 19:16:57 <wastrel> (i'm not volunteering)
Nov 14 19:17:24 <Dougie187> SanMehat, just point him to the logs.
Nov 14 19:17:35 <SanMehat> wastrel: hahaha
Nov 14 19:18:52 <zhobbs> where are the lgos?
Nov 14 19:18:52 <Dougie187> hey wastrel, you use ubuntu right?
Nov 14 19:18:55 <zhobbs> logs*
Nov 14 19:19:02 <Dougie187> ~logs
Nov 14 19:19:03 <infobot> All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Nov 14 19:19:47 <Dougie187>  its good to know that lines starting with spaces are not logged...
Nov 14 19:19:52 <tauno> romainguy___ well that's becasue it was done when nobody here know how the hell should you handle stuff in android ;) We thought that inflating the view from xml in every activity is kind of boring.. (and restore its state (eg set 10 values to it) in every onResume() in a Activity) (what's the smiley for chuckling?)
Nov 14 19:19:52 <Dougie187> everyone should type like that.
Nov 14 19:20:26 <romainguy___> tauno: it seems kinda weird that you would have several activities showing the same view with the same data
Nov 14 19:20:39 <romainguy___> I would really encourage you to NOT do what you're doing
Nov 14 19:20:48 <romainguy___> but that's your mess do deal with anyway so... :))
Nov 14 19:20:54 <ozzloy> can you point me to a date?
Nov 14 19:20:59 <tauno> think of something like an activity wide header/footer thingie
Nov 14 19:21:38 <tauno> romainguy___, it's a mess but it works without problems as it was done long time ago.. and I don't dare to touch it :/
Nov 14 19:21:47 <zhobbs> tauno: you could use an ActivityGroup for that
Nov 14 19:21:59 <haavi> boooh
Nov 14 19:22:00 <romainguy___> it works without problems as long as we don't change the way windows are shown, animated, etc. :)
Nov 14 19:22:09 <haavi> if it's a mess, rewrite
Nov 14 19:22:16 <tauno> zhobbs, refractoring stuff you mean?.. oh come on.. who does that? :P
Nov 14 19:22:25 <haavi> I do
Nov 14 19:22:31 <haavi> ALL THE TIME
Nov 14 19:23:17 <tauno> "write it once -> check if it works -> almost? -> don't better touch it anymore.. it will probably break in 10 different horrible ways"
Nov 14 19:23:24 <zhobbs> hehe
Nov 14 19:23:39 <tauno> just kidding here :)
Nov 14 19:24:04 <zhobbs> with all the ADC challenges and the SDK changing sooo much I've written my app a bunch of times :)
Nov 14 19:25:04 <jt436> zhobbs: no kidding, but usually for the good though
Nov 14 19:25:43 <zhobbs> jt436: yep
Nov 14 19:25:48 <romainguy___> zhobbs: good news, we won't break compatibility anymore
Nov 14 19:25:49 <romainguy___> well
Nov 14 19:25:53 <romainguy___> binary compatibility that is :)
Nov 14 19:26:11 <tauno> romainguy___ what's the best approach if I wanted to use a application wide view that has to be present in almost all activities and that has to preserve it's state - really just inflate it always new?
Nov 14 19:27:06 <unix_lappy> zhobbs: heh, since the phone being released we've stayed at 1.0r1
Nov 14 19:28:03 <zhobbs> tauno: ActivityGroup
Nov 14 19:28:44 <zhobbs> not much docs on ActivityGroup, but I use it for my app quite a bit
Nov 14 19:30:16 <tauno> zhobbs, any examples on this somewhere?
Nov 14 19:30:45 <zhobbs> tauno: TabActivity in the android git tree might be a good place to look
Nov 14 19:32:05 <tauno> I have the same choice here has google had - release it as it is (working on the outside) or don't release it at all.. can't really afford to rewrite anything big :/
Nov 14 19:32:38 <kRutOn> heh, just got another email from a ConnectBot user wondering why his phone rebooted when he rebooted a remote server
Nov 14 19:33:21 <nikkelitous> Hahaha, ouch.
Nov 14 19:33:50 <nikkelitous> Just hope nobody tries "rm -rf *"
Nov 14 19:33:59 <tauno> people here just fill the holes with trycatch->ignore (like every method that's called from the outside.. onTouch, onClick, onCreate etc etc) and as long as the app appears to be working on the outside, we are fine :/
Nov 14 19:35:01 <kRutOn> tauno: as long as it isn't try { stmt; stmt } catch (Exception e) { /* ignore */ }
Nov 14 19:35:15 <tauno> kRutOn, yes, it is :/
Nov 14 19:35:19 <kRutOn> heh
Nov 14 19:36:03 <tauno> ..ok, almost.. we display a nice warning to the user also, that he might experience problems later :P
Nov 14 19:36:09 <vol> hahah
Nov 14 19:36:43 <kRutOn> "Warning: Butterfly effect"
Nov 14 19:37:17 <kRutOn> tauno: Well, you know what they say: Ship the beta!
Nov 14 19:39:18 <SplasPood> heh started hacking code out of Term.apk's source and realized.. I need to learn a bit more java ;)
Nov 14 19:40:43 <unix_lappy> tauno: heh, where is "here" that there's such blatant disregard for errorhandling
Nov 14 19:40:43 <unix_lappy> ?
Nov 14 19:41:35 <RyeBrye> yeah... why not just have the Application try your main method and catch Exception and ignore it once, and have everything just throw Exception if you are going to be that lazy, might as well do it right
Nov 14 19:42:36 <RyeBrye> ... and remind me to never use that software though :)
Nov 14 19:43:23 <mikey|> gah, still not working
Nov 14 19:43:56 <jbq> RyeBrye: that'd assume that everything is called from within a method of the Application object. Imagine what happens when there are multiple application objects sharing the same thread...
Nov 14 19:44:30 <RyeBrye> jbq - good point. I did not fully explore the extents of being lazy
Nov 14 19:44:43 * RyeBrye was too lazy to consider being super lazy
Nov 14 19:44:49 <jbq> lol
Nov 14 19:50:23 <vol> Interesting. I'm working on the same thing ramzez is working on. We created a c program that basically just calls dlopen on the lib we're having trouble loading. It seems to load successfully, and logcat doesn't provide any output saying otherwise.
Nov 14 19:51:40 <vol> So, JNI fails on loading the library, saying "cannot find library". It most definitely has the right path.
Nov 14 19:51:59 <vol> I can load the library immediately thereafter with the c program that wraps dlopen.
Nov 14 19:54:42 <vol> I suppose I should try calling one of the functions in the C program and see if it actually works...
Nov 14 20:00:58 <kRutOn> RyeBrye: I was handed maintenance of a program once that had like 3 layers of objects that would catch exceptions and then throw new exceptions with generic messages like 'there was an error' so you could NEVER figure out where anything went wrong
Nov 14 20:01:32 <kRutOn>  Talk about irritating.. but we sold it for a billion dollars
Nov 14 20:01:49 <RyeBrye> kRutOn - Yeah, I hate those kinds of exception trapping things.
Nov 14 20:08:42 <ndmipodtouch> hey
Nov 14 20:09:09 <fadden> vol: the error message comes from the VM: "LOGI("Unable to dlopen(%s): %s\n", pathName, dlerror());"
Nov 14 20:09:23 <fadden> Unfortunately, dlerror() tends to say the same thing on every failure.
Nov 14 20:10:21 <vol> fadden: I suspected that might be it
Nov 14 20:10:31 <fadden> See the comment in dalvik/vm/Native.c line 420 or so, which has some advice in it.
Nov 14 20:10:40 <vol> I was just about to start climbing into the source
Nov 14 20:12:32 <fadden> If you're really feeling adventurous, try "adb shell setprop log.redirect-stdio true" and restart the runtime.
Nov 14 20:12:47 <fadden> Unsupported / undocumented feature, may not work.
Nov 14 20:13:26 <fadden> Essentially it causes the VM to create a new thread that reads from stdout/stderr and converts it to log messages, but it depends on stuff elsewhere in the system and tends to break.
Nov 14 20:13:53 <vol> most interesting
Nov 14 20:14:51 <vol> Is it possible that OOM would cause this?
Nov 14 20:15:19 <fadden> Unlikely, since it's all native heap.
Nov 14 20:15:39 <fadden> I've created 32MB native heap regions with the method profiling stuff.
Nov 14 20:15:54 <fadden> Most of it is just mmapped read only anyway.
Nov 14 20:16:00 <vol> ok
Nov 14 20:16:06 <DarkriftX> damnit, french record companies are sueing sourceforge, we need to nuke em before they can!
Nov 14 20:16:23 <vol> It's a 40MB lib when debugging is enabled, which is why I was concerned.
Nov 14 20:16:27 <fadden> You have to fix up the relocations, and there's likely some private storage, but it shouldn't be anywhere near the size on disk (especially since the debugging info isn't accessed).
Nov 14 20:16:41 <fadden> "size libwhatever.so" should give you a sense for how big the important part is.
Nov 14 20:17:06 <fadden> (or arm-eabi-size as needed)
Nov 14 20:19:55 <vol> looks like 6.86M
Nov 14 20:20:01 <vol> so, I guess not so bad
Nov 14 20:20:32 <vol> I think I'll give setprop log.redirect-stdio true a shot
Nov 14 20:24:47 <ndmipodtouch> hey
Nov 14 20:25:10 <ndmipodtouch> i have experience with c and some objective c and want to develop for android? what resources to learn off?
Nov 14 20:25:38 <ndmipodtouch> anyone?
Nov 14 20:25:46 <RyeBrye> any java experience?
Nov 14 20:26:15 <ndmipodtouch> well i hear java is similar to obj c as it is objet orientated but i wasnt an expert with obj c
Nov 14 20:26:18 <ndmipodtouch> i have no java
Nov 14 20:26:31 <ndmipodtouch> but is it an easy alnguage to pick up on?
Nov 14 20:26:39 <nikkelitous> ndmipodtouch: Download the SDK and read the docs.
Nov 14 20:26:45 <nikkelitous> Thats my advice.
Nov 14 20:26:49 <ndmipodtouch> ive downloaded sdk
Nov 14 20:26:51 <michaelnovakjr> ndmipodtouch: java is pretty different from obj c
Nov 14 20:26:57 <nikkelitous> Follow the notepad tutorial and you'll probably learn most of what you need.
Nov 14 20:26:57 <michaelnovakjr> actually very different
Nov 14 20:26:59 <RyeBrye> ndmipodtouch - it is similar to other languages, but the idioms are different
Nov 14 20:27:06 <nikkelitous> If you've done ANY other programming you'll probably be okay.
Nov 14 20:27:37 <ndmipodtouch> so all i need is prior programming experience (c and some obj c) and then read notpad
Nov 14 20:27:38 <ndmipodtouch> ?
Nov 14 20:27:51 <michaelnovakjr> ndmipodtouch: uh, a java book would be helpful :)
Nov 14 20:28:12 <ndmipodtouch> yer ive got java - a beginners guide
Nov 14 20:28:18 <nikkelitous> ndmipodtouch: You're set then.
Nov 14 20:28:25 <ndmipodtouch> k thanks
Nov 14 20:28:33 <nikkelitous> Trust me, so long as you can read documentation you'll be fine.
Nov 14 20:31:46 <raidfive> for a EditText widget with password=true, why is the "hint" displayed as asterisks? seems pointless
Nov 14 20:40:50 <raidfive> I want to indicate that the EditText box is for a password without having to put a TextView label by it
Nov 14 20:52:16 <michaelnovakjr> sounds like it could be unintended
Nov 14 20:53:39 <thoraxe_> man, aim is so piss poor
Nov 14 20:54:04 <thoraxe_> i can't even get it to sign in right now
Nov 14 20:56:05 <DarkriftX> sure got quiet in here
Nov 14 20:56:46 <thoraxe> happens
Nov 14 20:57:06 <thoraxe> i guess i am the only one having AOL issues
Nov 14 21:02:18 <vol> ...
Nov 14 21:02:41 <vol> guess so
Nov 14 21:02:49 <vol> ndmipodtouch: http://rafb.net/p/n76jMT86.html
Nov 14 21:02:55 <vol> argh, ignore that
Nov 14 21:03:16 <ndmipodtouch> wrong link?
Nov 14 21:03:38 <DarkriftX> any reason why ncurses wouldnt be able to be compiled for android?
Nov 14 21:03:45 <ndmipodtouch> vol?
Nov 14 21:04:28 <ndmipodtouch> vol????
Nov 14 21:05:02 <vol> yes, wrong link
Nov 14 21:05:06 <vol> synergyc was acting up again
Nov 14 21:05:07 <vol> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/
Nov 14 21:05:17 <vol> had to restart it
Nov 14 21:05:29 <vol> anyway, that link is the official sun java tutorials, it's a good place to start if you've never done java before
Nov 14 21:05:45 <vol> you can probably hack it a little bit just playing with Hello Android and the Android tutorials, though, if you have OO experience
Nov 14 21:15:38 <vol> hmm. I hit getprop to see if setprop had been set after restarting the emulator.
Nov 14 21:15:50 <vol> I didn't see log.redirect-stdio, but I did find
Nov 14 21:15:53 <vol> [ARGH]: [ARGH]
Nov 14 21:16:04 <vol> I am both amused and confused
Nov 14 21:17:00 <fadden> vol: setprop of log.redirect-stdio is not persistent across *emulator* restarts, just *runtime* restarts
Nov 14 21:17:04 <fadden> i.e. adb shell stop ; adb shell start
Nov 14 21:17:33 <vol> ah, stupid me
Nov 14 21:17:41 <fadden> To make it persist: adb shell "echo log.redirect-stdio = true > /data/local.prop"
Nov 14 21:18:03 <vol> I misunderstood what you meant
Nov 14 21:18:13 <vol> let me try that.
Nov 14 21:18:31 <fadden> (/data/local.prop is a bunch of "name = value" properties, one per line)
Nov 14 21:18:37 <mikey|> when using addView, can it be a child element in an xml file, or does it have to be the root element?
Nov 14 21:18:50 <vol> still a little confused by ARGH=ARGH
Nov 14 21:19:43 <fadden> vol: beats me
Nov 14 21:24:35 <vol> fadden: so, which log does this go to?
Nov 14 21:24:55 <fadden> Assuming it works, you'll see them in the usual log with the tag "stdout" or "stderr".
Nov 14 21:25:23 <ndmipodtouch> hey
Nov 14 21:25:44 <mikey|> is there anyway to have a listener for when the view is flipped using viewflipper?
Nov 14 21:25:51 <ndmipodtouch> would anyone like to develop an app with me and put it forward in a company name - please pm if interested
Nov 14 21:26:02 <mikey|> what kind of app?
Nov 14 21:26:20 <ndmipodtouch> well ill tell you after youve pmed and agreed
Nov 14 21:26:40 <mikey|> so we have to agree to work with you and then you'll say the type of app it is?
Nov 14 21:26:49 <ndmipodtouch> well not necessarily
Nov 14 21:26:56 <mikey|> lol, then just tell us
Nov 14 21:27:41 <michaelnovakjr> ndmipodtouch: that is a dumb way of going about it
Nov 14 21:27:54 <ndmipodtouch> fine
Nov 14 21:27:56 <vol> fadden: oh, you meant loggat
Nov 14 21:28:01 <vol> logcat logging
Nov 14 21:28:55 <vol> Yeah, the best I got was one ARMAssembler tag that's way in the past : (
Nov 14 21:28:57 <ndmipodtouch> my company have been developing iphone apps and therefore know a lot of very popular apps on iphone that could be transformed onto android and then turned into profit via ad revenue
Nov 14 21:29:20 <ndmipodtouch> there is so much opuurtunity for android as it is young and fresh
Nov 14 21:29:37 <michaelnovakjr> stop trolling
Nov 14 21:30:50 <vol> you "know a lot of very popular apps" is not the same as "we developed a lot of popular apps"
Nov 14 21:31:10 <vol> yeah, I'm going to join in your little profit sharing scheme which will get me sued into oblivion
Nov 14 21:31:39 <vol> try www.rentacoder.com
Nov 14 21:31:52 <michaelnovakjr> or www.jumpoffabridge.com
Nov 14 21:32:12 <ndmipodtouch> ha
Nov 14 21:32:28 <mikey|> bah, i've been struggling with this annoying non working thing for ages
Nov 14 21:32:34 * mikey| goes off to watch Smallville -.-
Nov 14 21:34:43 <mikey|> hmm, trying to add a comment at the top of my xml layout file, it gives an error: The processing instruction target matching "[xX][mM][lL]" is not allowed.
Nov 14 21:34:47 <mikey|> o.o
Nov 14 21:35:08 <vol> don't put it at the very top
Nov 14 21:40:43 <jasta> hmm, that was strange.  /sdcard on the emu just got remounted readonly
Nov 14 21:41:03 <jasta> mikey|: it has to be one line below <?xml ...?>
Nov 14 21:41:08 <jasta> at least one line*
Nov 14 21:41:16 <mikey|> k, thanks
Nov 14 21:47:22 <tmzt> jasta: no way to get a dmesg?
Nov 14 21:47:44 <tmzt> was it formatted ext2 or fat?
Nov 14 21:56:01 <jasta> tmzt: i already restarted the emulator
Nov 14 21:56:07 <jasta> didnt think to debug it
Nov 14 21:56:53 <tmzt> was it formatted ext2 or fat?
Nov 14 21:56:59 <Groucho> I am trying to make some widget level changes and am encountering the following - make: *** [out/target/common/obj/PACKAGING/checkapi-last-timestamp] Error 38. Anyone seen this before?
Nov 14 21:57:47 <romainguy___> Groucho: you changed/added public APIs
Nov 14 21:57:47 <tmzt> I say that because ext2 driver usually remounts read-only on certain errors
Nov 14 21:57:49 <jasta> fat
Nov 14 21:58:21 <Groucho> yes... changed EditText widget
Nov 14 21:58:34 <romainguy___> did you changed the APIs or added new APIs?
Nov 14 21:59:01 <Groucho> romainguy__: I added new APIs
Nov 14 21:59:19 <romainguy___> then you have to add @hide pending API council approval in the javadoc of each new public API
Nov 14 21:59:27 <romainguy___> (field, method, constructor, etc.)
Nov 14 21:59:34 <romainguy___> what API are you adding?
Nov 14 22:03:46 <DarkriftX> building the android source, and second line said i was missing bison. its still going and ive since installed bison. should i ctrl+c and cancel the isntall and restart or just let it go?
Nov 14 22:04:29 <jbq> DarkriftX: that's likely to be OK.
Nov 14 22:04:43 <DarkriftX> ahh, it failed anyways
Nov 14 22:04:56 <jbq> Worst case, if it fails, re-launch it, and worst worst case, if that still fails, rm -rf out and try again.
Nov 14 22:05:10 <DarkriftX> for soem reason this line didnt seem to work for me: sudo apt-get install flex bison gperf libsdl-dev libesd0-dev libwxgtk2.6-dev build-essential zip curl libncurses5-dev
Nov 14 22:05:20 <DarkriftX> half of those didnt get installed correctly, but apt gave no errors
Nov 14 22:07:00 * andyross takes a deep, deep breath...
Nov 14 22:07:03 <andyross> Are any google folks around interested in fielding questions about OpenGL performance on the G1? (romainguy: you seem to be involved in the graphics end of things, and swetland: your name is on the hw3d register mapping driver).  The upshot is this:
Nov 14 22:07:03 <andyross> Qualcomm advertises 133M px/s fill rate and 4M tri/s vertex throughput for the MSM7k.  I can get close to the former, but not the latter, and I strongly suspect vertex transformation is happening on the CPU, not the hardware.  CPU usage is zero for fill-limited tests, and 100% for vertex-limited.
Nov 14 22:07:03 <andyross> I've put together a test rig in http://plausible.org/andy/Game1.tar.gz (with the README unpacked at http://plausible.org/andy/README.Game1) if you want to take a look.  I've tried to enumerate more or less every meaningful GL state, but can't for the life of me get the GPU's vertex hardware to engage.
Nov 14 22:07:06 <andyross> Feel free to reply whenever, or via email.  I'll keep nagging. :)
Nov 14 22:07:51 <romainguy___> here is our latest benchmark:
Nov 14 22:07:52 <romainguy___> > Triangle rate:
Nov 14 22:07:52 <romainguy___> >  No Texture:
Nov 14 22:07:52 <romainguy___> >    Imageon: 738K/s
Nov 14 22:07:52 <romainguy___> >  1 texture:
Nov 14 22:07:53 <romainguy___> >    Imageon: 545K/s
Nov 14 22:07:53 <romainguy___> >  2 textures:
Nov 14 22:07:55 <romainguy___> >    Imageon: 455K/s
Nov 14 22:07:57 <romainguy___> >
Nov 14 22:07:59 <romainguy___> > Fill rate:
Nov 14 22:08:01 <romainguy___> >    Imageon: 123Mpps
Nov 14 22:09:06 <andyross> Crap.  Then you guys are likely seeing the same thing.  I can't quite get that fill number (I see 101M).  But I actually get 1.4M untextured triangles in the rig for a pretty degenerate case.
Nov 14 22:09:25 <RyeBrye> Android has a built-in face detector? http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/media/FaceDetector.html ?
Nov 14 22:09:26 <andyross> What happened to the hardware T&L then?  I find references all over the web to 4M/s.
Nov 14 22:09:41 <jbq> RyeBrye: yup.
Nov 14 22:09:59 <RyeBrye> jbq - cool :) Do any apps use it yet?
Nov 14 22:10:24 * RyeBrye is amazed at some of the exotic features of android
Nov 14 22:10:44 <Terdhex> does any body have a rooted RC30 or RC29?
Nov 14 22:10:48 <jbq> RyeBrye: yes - that's the way pictures are auto-cropped when you add a photo a contact.
Nov 14 22:11:24 <RyeBrye> ah, gotcha
Nov 14 22:12:08 <jbq> andyross: try to render in a smaller surface (try 240x160 or smaller).
Nov 14 22:12:43 <kRutOn>  Terdhex: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Nov 14 22:13:17 <jbq> andyross: in a nutshell, the chip only has 256kB of VRAM on board, so if you render to larger surfaces it has to render everything multiple times.
Nov 14 22:14:25 <RyeBrye> So from my brief looking into the media API - there is playback, and there is record - but I don't see any way to get samples in realtime from the microphone? http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/media.html
Nov 14 22:16:01 <eldenz> andyross, "(I map the control key the the caps lock location where it belongs!)" <-- word! ;>
Nov 14 22:17:32 * romainguy___ give eldenz a Sun keyboard
Nov 14 22:17:54 <RyeBrye> The sun keyboard has a built in "props" key you can use to fist-bump your friends online
Nov 14 22:18:22 <eldenz> and escape belongs between lshift and z (on qwertz keyboards there is another key :) )
Nov 14 22:18:46 <eldenz> which then would be between lshift and y but ...
Nov 14 22:19:57 <andyross> jbq: The framebuffer size turns out not to be the issue.  It can clear and swap buffers far faster than the 60Hz rate cap.  The rendered triangle area is tunable, and the vertex throughput numbers are for a case with something like 64 pixels of fill.
Nov 14 22:20:14 <andyross> eldenz: Context?  I do indeed remap those keys.  Didn't think I'd mentioned it. :)
Nov 14 22:20:50 <andyross> Oh, heh.  On the blog.
Nov 14 22:20:54 <eldenz> andyross, it's from your blog post 'Nerve Damage!'
Nov 14 22:21:05 <eldenz> :)
Nov 14 22:21:20 <eldenz> kinda old entry though ;)
Nov 14 22:21:45 <jimmygoon> Sigh, Is there any word on a Verizon supported Android device yet or am I just going to have to buy the Storm and get it over with
Nov 14 22:21:48 <jbq> andyross: actually, once the framebuffer gets tiled, everything is rendered multiple times.
Nov 14 22:22:42 <jbq> If the framebuffer has to be rendered in thirds, every triangle is rendered 3 times, and you might in fact be observing the spec'ed number.
Nov 14 22:23:29 <andyross> jbq: Right.  But my point is that I can shrink the target box down as small as I want, so e.g. I'm rendering 64k vertices in 256 strips into a 3x5 pixel block.  So fill rate drops out of the equation and I'm measuring pure vertex transformation performance.  And it caps out at about 1.4M, using 100% CPU to do it.  I don't think there's any hardware T&L happening, and the part is *supposed* to be capable.
Nov 14 22:23:34 <RyeBrye> If I want to do audio processing on android, do I need to start media recorder recording to a file, and then read from that file and get the info I want from that?
Nov 14 22:24:02 <andyross> Ah, OK.  I'm understanding.  It's a tiled architecture underneath?  Do you know what/where the tiling boundaries are?
Nov 14 22:25:19 <jbq> The part can be used as tiled, by making it render to its internal memory, in which case the fill rate is higher but the triangle rate is lower. That's how it's configured in the G1.
Nov 14 22:25:39 <andyross> RyeBrye: look at the AudioTrack C++ API.  It looks like a IPC based (e.g. a "fill this buffer please" callback) streaming interface.  Haven't tried it yet, it's on my list.
Nov 14 22:25:46 <jbq> (it can also be configured to render directly in RAM, in which case the fill rate is much lower by the triangle rate is higher - we don't have that).
Nov 14 22:25:58 <RyeBrye> andyross - cool, thanks
Nov 14 22:26:16 <jbq> andyross: if you bring this up on the android-developers list, you might get more information from the guy who really knows that part of the system.
Nov 14 22:26:20 <andyross> jbq: Gotcha.  And that explains the almost exactly 3x drop from the claimed performance.  Should I just split the screen in thirds, or are there magic boundaries I should honor?
Nov 14 22:26:32 <romainguy___> andyross: there are 4 tiles
Nov 14 22:27:12 <andyross> OK.  I'm still not understanding the CPU usage though, and worried that the claimed hardware acceleration isn't.
Nov 14 22:27:27 <romainguy___> the hardware might be able to do it
Nov 14 22:27:30 <romainguy___> I don't know about the driver
Nov 14 22:28:06 <jbq> andyross: I really suggest that you bring this up on the mailing list. Not that I'm trying to blow you off, just that romainguy_ and I only have 2nd-hand information, and you're more likely to get 1st-hand info on the list.
Nov 14 22:29:02 <andyross> I will.  But it's high-traffic and (so far as I've read) almost entirely dominated by dumb GUI questions.  :)  You guys might have second hand info, but you can give 100% of your attention :)
Nov 14 22:29:21 <fadden> andyross: there are multiple mailing lists
Nov 14 22:29:26 <fadden> You probably don't want android-discuss.
Nov 14 22:29:29 <sfuentes> are there any irc apps for android?
Nov 14 22:30:36 <fadden> (although I'm not sure we have a G1-specific group...)
Nov 14 22:31:22 <jbq> andyross: if you're using gmail (desktop), you can star your post, and then search for is:starred is:unread, or even from:me is:unread to see if there are replies without having to read through tons of messages.
Nov 14 22:31:22 <fadden> You can try android-kernel and see if you get shouted off the list. :-)
Nov 14 22:33:36 <Memphis> is there a website that shows wich new apps are available for g1/ android
Nov 14 22:34:16 <Disconnect> not really
Nov 14 22:42:34 <savid> Wow, that maze game sucks...
Nov 14 22:49:06 <sfuentes> anybody awake?
Nov 14 22:50:24 * Damm zzzz's just for sfuentes.
Nov 14 22:51:10 <sfuentes> nice
Nov 14 22:57:16 <DarkriftX> is there a way to take the android im building and use it in the emu?
Nov 14 22:58:32 <romainguy___> andyross: T&L is *not* supported in hardware on teh G1
Nov 14 22:58:50 <romainguy___> andyross: I asked our resident OpenGL expert and he said that it was never advertised, for this chip, that hw T&L is supported
Nov 14 22:58:52 <andyross> Hrm, feh.
Nov 14 22:59:43 <andyross> I've got a MSM7200 PDF I found somewhere that clearly lists "4M triangles per second" under the "GPU" section, so I think Qualcomm might be a little mixed up.
Nov 14 23:00:27 * RyeBrye shakes angry fist at Qualcomm
Nov 14 23:00:37 <jasta> > http://www.nwsam.com/
Nov 14 23:01:30 <jbq> that might be what used to be called "setup", i.e. not necessarily HW T&L.
Nov 14 23:02:04 <RyeBrye> jasta - no joke, my little sister was going to quit college and go learn to be a horse masseuse. (we talked her out of it)
Nov 14 23:02:20 <andyross> Dunno.  I've been accumulating what info I can.  I have a PDF from someone's conference presentation on the MSM7500/Brew platform that states pretty unequivocally that it's talking about "floating point support all the way through the virtex pipeline"
Nov 14 23:02:32 <andyross> And yes, I know the difference between triangle setup and vertex transform :)
Nov 14 23:02:40 <jbq> :)
Nov 14 23:03:00 <jbq> (based on your questions, you obviously know what you're talking about)
Nov 14 23:03:14 <fadden> Were they assuming VFP?
Nov 14 23:03:17 <sonic__> has anyone been able to get the G1 to mount in kubuntu 8.10
Nov 14 23:03:36 <sonic__> or ubuntu 8.10 for that matter since I dont think it makes a difference
Nov 14 23:03:49 <jasta> sonic__: read the "debugging with a real device" section of the online docs
Nov 14 23:04:17 <andyross> Yeah, "Brew 3D Performance Optimization" by Angus Dorbie at the Brew 2007 Conference.  I'd have to go through it again to figure out exactly how things were phrased.
Nov 14 23:04:21 <sonic__> ubuntu's docs or android's docs?
Nov 14 23:04:26 <jasta> sonic__: android's
Nov 14 23:06:21 <andyross> The tiling point is a really good one though.  I need to rejigger things to be able to change the View/Surface size and try again.
Nov 14 23:06:33 <sonic__> well it worked with ubuntu 8.04 but not with 8.10
Nov 14 23:07:14 <chris_debian> Yikes, I'm running 8.10 at the mo and am aiming to buy a G1 in the next few weeks!
Nov 14 23:07:37 <jasta> sonic__: try adb kill-server and adb start-server (as root)
Nov 14 23:07:53 <sonic__> on my phone?
Nov 14 23:09:05 <jasta> no, computer
Nov 14 23:09:29 <jasta> if it works, then either udev changed (unlikely), or you didn't follow directions right :)
Nov 14 23:10:17 <sonic__> adb: command not found
Nov 14 23:10:59 <jasta> erm, you meant mount as in the sdcard?
Nov 14 23:11:10 <jasta> sorry, i thought you meant mount as in connect for debugging
Nov 14 23:11:36 <jasta> for that, check lsusb and make sure your machine sees the device.  if it does, look at dmesg to see what chatter is going on about it
Nov 14 23:11:57 <jasta> and make sure that, uhm, there's some setting that should be on to make it show up as a mass storage device on the phone
Nov 14 23:12:00 <jasta> find it :)
Nov 14 23:14:33 <sonic__> scsi 7:0:0:0: Direct-Access     HTC      Android Phone    0100 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
Nov 14 23:14:55 <sonic__> usb 1-6: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 9
Nov 14 23:15:23 <sonic__> scsi8 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices;   usb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning
Nov 14 23:25:23 <Damm> sonic__, have you clicked the notification to tell it to mount or do not mount?
Nov 14 23:25:36 <Damm> or if your running rc19 you need to enable USB Storage
Nov 14 23:47:47 <RyeBrye> Say I want my application to handle .loc files downloaded from Geocaching.com - (so the browser wont say that it's not allowed) - I just need to register the app as handling and managing those files?
Nov 14 23:50:11 <Damm> RyeBrye, sounds like a splendid idea :)
Nov 14 23:51:17 <RyeBrye> Well... the format is really REALLY simple
Nov 14 23:54:23 <RyeBrye> Hmm... although the .loc doesn't seem to capture all the info I want (like cache type - they are all "Geocache") - I'll see about their pocket queries
Nov 14 23:57:19 <RyeBrye> I've heard a lot of people say that geocaching.com "frown upon" people hitting their server directly because they have a "competing app" (even though it is only on one platform)
Nov 14 23:59:45 <Damm> RyeBrye, people whine, bitch, moan
Nov 14 23:59:48 <Damm> that's just who they are.
Nov 15 00:00:05 <RyeBrye> Yeah, the geocaching thing is ridiculous. Maybe I'll sniff what the iphone app does and then use that
Nov 15 00:00:41 <RyeBrye> Good luck blocking something that looks exactly like your own application...
Nov 15 00:01:22 <Damm> i think it's safe to say people are retarded
Nov 15 00:05:10 <InfiL00p> Hey
Nov 15 00:18:51 <androoid> what am i suppose to use besides Display.getOrientation()  to get the orientation layout so i can use the appropriate xml ?
Nov 15 00:24:11 <MattSchultz> Hey )
Nov 15 00:24:14 <Rob-cs> hi
Nov 15 00:24:24 <MattSchultz> I've got an issue maybe someone can help me with
Nov 15 00:24:38 <Rob-cs> michaelnonvakjr or michaelnovakjr_ whats up?
Nov 15 00:24:50 <savid> Ok, so I have the "video player" app installed,   and I've copied an h.264 video to my sd card in a subfolder,  but when I start the app, it says "no videos"?
Nov 15 00:25:46 <sfuentes> is there irc for android?
Nov 15 00:25:55 <MattSchultz> I'm running the G1 and eclipse, and everythig ran cool until I connected to the device in debug mode. From now on, no matter how I build, install, or start my application, it ALWAYS pauses on start, telling me it is waiting to connect to the debug server, and holds there until I actually connect to it with exclipse debugger.
Nov 15 00:26:27 <fadden> MattSchultz: sounds like you set it as the to-be-debugged app in the developer settings
Nov 15 00:27:20 <MattSchultz> fadden: how do I fix that? Settings>Applications>Debugging does not have any options for changing that.
Nov 15 00:27:40 <sodenrox> settings>applications>debug?
Nov 15 00:28:00 <savid> how do I "Disable USB storage"?
Nov 15 00:28:28 <MattSchultz> sodenrox: on the phone.
Nov 15 00:28:48 <fadden> MattSchultz: hmm
Nov 15 00:29:59 <RyeBrye> anyone using xmlbeans generated stuff in their android app?
Nov 15 00:30:45 <MattSchultz> sodenrox, fadden: I've tried uninstalling the app manually, then re-installing, but that has no effect.
Nov 15 00:31:15 <MattSchultz> fadden: what is the developer settings thing you refer to?
Nov 15 00:31:44 <fadden> Do you have Dev Tools (a/k/a ZeDevTools ?)
Nov 15 00:33:22 <MattSchultz> err....maybe not - I just downloaded the ADT/SDK for my windows machine.
Nov 15 00:34:19 <fadden> So there's no "Dev Tools" application appearing on your phone?
Nov 15 00:34:53 <fadden> (I'm not really expecting it to, but I can never tell what configuration people have these days.)
Nov 15 00:36:38 <MattSchultz> fadden: nope, no such app.
Nov 15 00:36:51 <fadden> Do you know how the wait-for-debugger feature got enabled in the first place?
Nov 15 00:37:46 <MattSchultz> Yep - I ran the app in debug mode from eclipse...which worked (and still does work) fine.
Nov 15 00:38:02 <MattSchultz> after that, it required debug every single time.
Nov 15 00:40:16 <fadden> I don't know.  I believe one app is designated as the "debug me" target, so if you debug something else ("hello android"?) it should stop pestering your app.
Nov 15 00:41:02 <MattSchultz> hrm....I'll try that....
Nov 15 00:42:36 <Surye> Is there still not a 64bit windows driver for the G1?
Nov 15 00:43:12 <jbq> no :(
Nov 15 00:43:55 <Surye> Awh, oh well, I'll keep holding my breath :P
Nov 15 00:44:14 <jbq> I recommend that you actually breathe.
Nov 15 00:44:26 <MattSchultz> fadden: nope - it still won't leave my app alone.
Nov 15 00:45:17 <fadden> Does it now make both apps stop and wait?
Nov 15 00:45:51 <MattSchultz> yup
Nov 15 00:46:22 <fadden> Hmm.  Something in the manifest?
Nov 15 00:46:54 <MattSchultz> actually - while it origionally did for my second app, it is now allowing the second one to run after I unplugged it from the USB port
Nov 15 00:49:31 <MattSchultz> I figured it out, though that is certainly an odd error message for this case.
Nov 15 00:49:41 <MattSchultz> I had published a second activity in the manifest.
Nov 15 00:49:55 <MattSchultz> after I removed that activity, it worked fine.
Nov 15 00:52:00 <MattSchultz> I'm not sure if it's the activity itself, or the way it was added to the manifest - I basically copied the main one and then changed the parameters for the new one....any idea why this would cause this particular error?
Nov 15 00:52:37 <fadden> Not a clue.  xavd may be able to explain it.
Nov 15 00:52:43 <fadden> bbl
Nov 15 00:52:53 <MattSchultz> cool, thanks for your help!
Nov 15 00:58:34 <DJTachyon> la la la
Nov 15 00:58:37 <DJTachyon> i like my working G1 :D
Nov 15 00:58:53 <DJTachyon> so anybody know of an effort for exchange integration?
Nov 15 00:59:10 <DJTachyon> or maybe an ETA on quickoffice?
Nov 15 01:00:15 <g1er> speed 4900mph! not bad..lol
Nov 15 01:00:35 <DJTachyon> o_O
Nov 15 01:00:41 <DJTachyon> we need an IRC app :P
Nov 15 01:00:47 <g1er> space shuttle lift-off
Nov 15 01:00:51 <g1er> :)
Nov 15 01:02:59 <DarkriftX> can someone with root try a busybox i compiled?
Nov 15 01:03:07 <DarkriftX> i need to see if my cross compile env is working
Nov 15 01:07:49 <sfuentes> what about cross-compiling for android?
Nov 15 01:08:02 <sfuentes> is that feasiable?
Nov 15 01:10:06 <DarkriftX> if you have root
Nov 15 01:10:14 <DarkriftX> i just have no idea what im doing
Nov 15 01:10:31 <DarkriftX> i think my binaries are being compiled for x86 even though i think im doing all the steps right :(
Nov 15 01:10:48 <DarkriftX> and i think i just proved it :(
Nov 15 01:10:58 <sfuentes> that's alot of thinking :)
Nov 15 01:11:09 <jbq> Your best bet to cross-compile something for android might just be to compile it in the open-source tree with all the tools that exist there.
Nov 15 01:11:23 <jbq> (not supported, blah blah blah)
Nov 15 01:11:31 <sfuentes> jbq: sounds about right
Nov 15 01:11:54 <DarkriftX> i compiled android, and was told to use the arm-eabi-gcc to compile it
Nov 15 01:12:01 <sfuentes> jbq: just like root on g1 is not supported, huh? :)
Nov 15 01:12:20 <DarkriftX> oh, that part is understood
Nov 15 01:12:29 <jbq> sfuentes: no, not quite. more like "if it breaks in the future, don't complain to us".
Nov 15 01:12:44 <DarkriftX> which is acceptable :)
Nov 15 01:12:49 <DarkriftX> root comes with risks
Nov 15 01:13:08 <DarkriftX> "you have root?" "yeah" "well, you are your own tech support now" lol
Nov 15 01:14:15 <jbq> there are other kinds of risks but I guess they're not relevant.
Nov 15 01:14:40 <DarkriftX> as a n00b, with android already built, whats the next step to compile (busybox for instance) using the android build (this is how i was told it had to be done)
Nov 15 01:14:57 <jbq> (and I'm not even qualified to evaluate whether they are relevant or not)
Nov 15 01:15:23 <Memphis> would it even be worth it to install another os on a g1?
Nov 15 01:15:29 <DarkriftX> you are absolved of all responsibility
Nov 15 01:15:37 <DarkriftX> someone put debian on it
Nov 15 01:15:47 <DarkriftX> i dont want another os though, i just want more command line tools
Nov 15 01:15:52 <jbq> DarkriftX: I'd recommend, look at the way some of the existing binaries are build (Android.mk + source files), and to essentially the same for your binary.
Nov 15 01:16:19 <jbq> (I'm not an expert with the exact details, though).
Nov 15 01:16:23 <DarkriftX> k
Nov 15 01:23:22 <sfuentes> jbq: t-mob (tech support) wouldn't even understand what root means :D
Nov 15 01:24:41 * jasta rubs his eyes
Nov 15 01:25:05 <jasta> where did sun-java5/6-plugin go in Ubuntu 8.04?
Nov 15 01:26:11 <infernix> hi. anyone around with a G1? I'm trying to find out whether if the one I have has RC29 or RC30, but can't seem to find it
Nov 15 01:26:26 <jasta> infernix: just look in the phone info
Nov 15 01:26:51 <infernix> it says RC29 or RC30 there
Nov 15 01:26:51 <infernix> ?
Nov 15 01:26:57 <jasta> settings, phone something, bla bla.  spend at least a minute looking, i'm sure you'll find it.
Nov 15 01:28:17 <infernix> well I don't have it and I already explained that to the seller of the G1 i've bought, but he still only replied "it runs android software" :p
Nov 15 01:28:25 <infernix> but thanks for the confirmation :)
Nov 15 01:29:07 <jasta> i don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Nov 15 01:29:41 <infernix> i've bought a G1 off ebay, and am trying to get the seller to tell me if its RC29 or RC30
Nov 15 01:30:00 <jasta> yes, that can be discovered in the settings app on the phone.
Nov 15 01:30:48 <infernix> yeah, as you explained, thanks for confirming that.
Nov 15 01:31:00 <infernix> problem is seller doesn't seem to have a clue what firmware versions are
Nov 15 01:31:12 <infernix> but anyway, never mind. thx;)
Nov 15 01:31:36 <jasta> he probably updated to RC30 then in all likelihood
Nov 15 01:37:12 <Dameon> How do the phone and launcher apps get started? they dont have the permission to start on bootup, but they both seem to anyway
Nov 15 01:38:26 <nikkelitous> Probably through intents.
Nov 15 01:38:44 <nikkelitous> There is probably some code that catches calls and fires an intent to start the phone.
Nov 15 01:38:54 <Maxpower57> would someone mind helping me understand how to use the phone's vibrator class? I've been Trying for a while, I can't seem to get it
Nov 15 01:39:00 <Dameon> i thought there would be an incoming_call intent or something
Nov 15 01:39:08 <nikkelitous> The launcher probably the same just as the first thing Dalvik sends out at the beginning.
Nov 15 01:39:43 <Dameon> but instead theres a thing in the phone app which registers some handler/callback/something with some class in android.phone if i recall
Nov 15 01:39:58 <jbq> that's probably not a dalvik think, it's a much higher-level function.
Nov 15 01:39:59 <DarkriftX> infernix, dont worry about rc30, im sure that wont be a problem for much longer :)
Nov 15 01:40:25 <infernix> i sure hope not
Nov 15 01:40:28 <DarkriftX> lots of ppl got stuck on rc30 and they are working on a wya to get root
Nov 15 01:40:36 <DarkriftX> the more ppl on rc30, the faster a new root will come
Nov 15 01:41:02 <Dameon> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/apps/Phone.git;a=blob;f=src/com/android/phone/CallNotifier.java;h=c13294d7115d4d70a14db71a51aac98314159f54;hb=abc47110c17fa8e8cb6161bc045e87f31eeb7a1c
Nov 15 01:41:03 <infernix> i really won't be able to live with proxy based tethering
Nov 15 01:41:10 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 15 01:41:11 <nikkelitous> You know, as far as I can tell, there isn't anything preventing downgrades through the recovery console.  Is this not true?
Nov 15 01:41:22 <DarkriftX> there is
Nov 15 01:41:25 <DarkriftX> its been tried
Nov 15 01:41:33 <DarkriftX> the first 2 lines of the update script check version
Nov 15 01:41:38 <DarkriftX> among other things
Nov 15 01:42:20 <infernix> i hope we'll get to a point that we can flash the rom outside of android. the bootloader should be your basic HTC one
Nov 15 01:42:30 <infernix> much work has been done there already
Nov 15 01:42:39 <DarkriftX> yes, lots of ppl messing with that
Nov 15 01:43:13 <infernix> well, first 2 weeks of waiting for it to ship overseas
Nov 15 01:43:25 <Damm> DarkriftX, checks ota keys? which change on each release.
Nov 15 01:43:35 <kRutOn> DarkriftX: You can't replace parts of the update with something else, eh? I guess there is a signed manifest
Nov 15 01:43:47 <DarkriftX> everything is signed kRutOn
Nov 15 01:43:54 <Damm> err did not mean to add the ?
Nov 15 01:44:10 <DarkriftX> you need a modified recovery to flash a non signed or custom signed update
Nov 15 01:44:25 <kRutOn> DarkriftX: I mean replace a file with a previously released (and correctly signed) version
Nov 15 01:44:36 <DarkriftX> its signed in layers
Nov 15 01:44:40 <DarkriftX> each file, then the package
Nov 15 01:44:51 <kRutOn> sounds like a job for an ogre
Nov 15 01:44:51 <DarkriftX> so any replacement breaks one of the signatures
Nov 15 01:44:53 <Damm> the zip is also signed
Nov 15 01:45:20 <Damm> changing the zip breaks the signature
Nov 15 01:45:33 <infernix> i just can't wait to flash it with windows mobile
Nov 15 01:45:40 <DarkriftX> eeeew
Nov 15 01:45:42 <kRutOn> DarkriftX: During the recovery you can adb push, but I suppose you still have non-root permissions
Nov 15 01:45:45 <Damm> why?
Nov 15 01:46:04 <infernix> i just love to be unable to answer calls and later tell people "sorry, UI lag"
Nov 15 01:46:24 <infernix> oh how I need that WM6.1 fix
Nov 15 01:46:34 <kRutOn> DarkriftX: I wonder if you can adb push to the /sdcard after it has gone through and verified everything
Nov 15 01:46:38 <DarkriftX> im no expert kRutOn i just know the basics
Nov 15 01:46:48 <DarkriftX> i dont think so
Nov 15 01:46:51 <DarkriftX> something like that was tried
Nov 15 01:46:53 <Damm> i dont have that issue
Nov 15 01:47:07 <DarkriftX> he is being a smartass damm
Nov 15 01:47:15 <Maxpower57> is there a fix for the fact that the phone doesn't vibrate when it recieves a message?
Nov 15 01:47:18 <DarkriftX> like ppl saying they miss windows because it has BSOD's
Nov 15 01:47:27 <Maxpower57> its really pissing me off
Nov 15 01:47:40 <DarkriftX> Maxpower57, if not im sure its soon
Nov 15 01:47:41 <infernix> is the running kernel on android using real time code btw
Nov 15 01:47:42 <infernix> ?
Nov 15 01:47:46 <DarkriftX> they push updates pretty often so far
Nov 15 01:49:17 <Maxpower57> yeah, Theres a lot of little things like that that seem to be left off of the phone. I've fixed most of them, but I can't get this one
Nov 15 01:50:07 <waldo_> anyone here ever use the java gdata library for regular non-android java applications?
Nov 15 01:50:10 <infernix> Maxpower57: there's a thread about it on xda forums. for one guy RC30 fixed it somewhat, but still occurs
Nov 15 01:51:36 <Maxpower57> do you have a link?
Nov 15 01:52:11 <infernix> google something like "site:forum.xda-developers.com dream vibrate sms"
Nov 15 01:53:13 <infernix> i've been playing around with getting linux on my htc kaiser
Nov 15 01:53:33 <infernix> did manage to boot android 0.8 on it, but since the sd card driver is buggy it cant store more data than i can put on an initrd
Nov 15 01:58:59 <Maxpower57> AH, ok i got it.
Nov 15 01:59:20 <Maxpower57> just for the record, its in the Message's settings panel, not the main settings.
Nov 15 01:59:26 <Maxpower57> thank god.
Nov 15 01:59:44 <Maxpower57> :P
Nov 15 01:59:51 <Maxpower57> im sure i won't be the last one to ask
Nov 15 02:04:52 <Dameon> hmmm can i get log entries from the boot up process of the emulator?
Nov 15 02:04:59 <Dameon> maybe there will be something about starting the launcher
Nov 15 02:05:16 <kRutOn> yeah logcat and adb shell dmesg
Nov 15 02:05:23 <Dameon> ahhh ok thanks
Nov 15 02:05:42 <Dameon> very strange i havent been able to track this down
Nov 15 02:09:23 <waldo_> this is a stupid question.. but is google down?
Nov 15 02:09:34 <waldo_> www.google.com is getting errors...
Nov 15 02:09:40 <waldo_> but other sites are not
Nov 15 02:09:40 <sfuentes> lol
Nov 15 02:09:46 <sfuentes> come on waldo
Nov 15 02:09:51 <waldo_> i know, I know
Nov 15 02:09:52 <waldo_> it's weird
Nov 15 02:09:54 <waldo_> I better traceroute
Nov 15 02:09:56 <sfuentes> its up
Nov 15 02:10:56 <waldo_> wow this is crazy
Nov 15 02:12:01 <waldo_> guess it's time to reboot the ol' router
Nov 15 02:23:14 <danfuzz> blort
Nov 15 02:28:47 <Dameon> ahhh I found the juicy bits in activity manager. Seems that the 'persistent' flag is a very handy flag indeed - when the app description is loaded during boot, it is queued to be started. sneaky...shouldnt that require a special permission?
Nov 15 02:40:16 <sfuentes> i think we need new ideas for android devices
Nov 15 02:40:28 <sfuentes> to think outside the box
Nov 15 02:40:37 <Memphis> agreed
Nov 15 02:40:44 <sfuentes> i got one
Nov 15 02:40:49 <Memphis> ?
Nov 15 02:40:51 <spikebike> a car
Nov 15 02:40:57 <Memphis> ...
Nov 15 02:41:04 <spikebike> a landline phone
Nov 15 02:41:06 <sfuentes> and is sustainable ... kinda
Nov 15 02:41:17 <spikebike> a settop box
Nov 15 02:41:19 <sfuentes> so its all for green
Nov 15 02:41:21 <spikebike> microwave/fridge
Nov 15 02:41:26 <sfuentes> lol spikebike
Nov 15 02:41:32 <danfuzz> automatic muffin maker?
Nov 15 02:41:33 <sfuentes> those would be cool too
Nov 15 02:41:35 <Memphis> lol
Nov 15 02:41:40 <sfuentes> but i'm thinking energy/fuel
Nov 15 02:41:47 <sfuentes> replacement for primitive batteries
Nov 15 02:41:52 <Leeds> you want to power a reactor with android?
Nov 15 02:41:58 <sfuentes> no, no
Nov 15 02:42:18 <sfuentes> a small compartment inside the device
Nov 15 02:42:29 <Memphis> some how make a fibreless moddel of the back of a g1 and then glue on flexible solar panel...
Nov 15 02:42:46 <sfuentes> with 20 or so worker ants powering the device
Nov 15 02:42:47 <Memphis> install some electrode spring contacts to battery.
Nov 15 02:43:10 <Leeds> sfuentes: you'd have to feed them
Nov 15 02:43:37 <DarkriftX> just grab a leaf once a day for em
Nov 15 02:43:50 <Memphis> remote desktop?
Nov 15 02:43:56 <danfuzz> i think you might have both a conversion ratio and energy density problem
Nov 15 02:44:57 <Memphis> built in pop out bluetooth headset like a portable mouse?
Nov 15 02:45:24 <Leeds> mice are pretty portable already - they've got legs, they run around, etc.
Nov 15 02:45:39 <sfuentes> ok i admit there are some issues but we can work around them
Nov 15 02:45:43 <DarkriftX> invasion of the freaks tonight on #android
Nov 15 02:45:48 <sfuentes> lol
Nov 15 02:45:53 <Leeds> tonight?
Nov 15 02:46:05 <sfuentes> the goal here is to use natural energy
Nov 15 02:46:19 <Leeds> middle of the morning here in Asia
Nov 15 02:46:38 <sfuentes> i got another idea
Nov 15 02:47:22 <sfuentes> what about making the scroll wheel on the g1 save energy to the battery or another battery on the device when u scroll really fast
Nov 15 02:47:42 <sfuentes> its kinectic energy
Nov 15 02:47:55 <sfuentes> OLPCs have cranks, right?
Nov 15 02:48:44 <Leeds> no, and they never did
Nov 15 02:49:02 <Leeds> but regenerative scrolling sounds interesting :-)
Nov 15 02:49:29 <spikebike> actually olpcs did have something
Nov 15 02:49:37 <spikebike> I think it was a spindle and you used a rope
Nov 15 02:49:44 <spikebike> or maybe it was a powercube that had similar
Nov 15 02:49:58 <dgilmore> sfuentes: olpcs dont have cranks
Nov 15 02:50:04 <dgilmore> an early model did
Nov 15 02:50:09 <SplasPood> they are simply made BY cranks
Nov 15 02:50:12 <SplasPood> ;)
Nov 15 02:50:26 <dgilmore> SplasPood: i worked for OLPC until recently
Nov 15 02:50:33 <dgilmore> i really dont appreciate that
Nov 15 02:50:46 <SplasPood> dgilmore: Awww
Nov 15 02:50:46 <spikebike> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/One_Laptop_per_Child
Nov 15 02:50:59 <spikebike> Low power is key. Most children do not have electricity at home. Therefore, a laptop needs to run on both human power and long-life batteries. Human power, whether cranking or other gestures, must run a laptop at least 1-to-10: one minute of cranking provides ten minutes of use
Nov 15 02:51:29 <sfuentes> well u guys see where i'm going with this
Nov 15 02:51:32 <SplasPood> dgilmore: One must not take the internets too seriously.
Nov 15 02:51:39 <dgilmore> thre is an external crank option.  a foot pedel option. solar panel options
Nov 15 02:51:51 <sfuentes> solar panels would be cool too
Nov 15 02:52:13 <infernix> sfuentes: easy. just invent a perpetuum mobile battery
Nov 15 02:52:25 <SplasPood> personal wind turbine
Nov 15 02:52:36 <sfuentes> infernix: i know, i know ... its alot easier to say, right
Nov 15 02:52:56 <neekers_> i feel pretty energized when i yank my crank :o)
Nov 15 02:53:06 * dgilmore wants to put solar panels on the roof 
Nov 15 02:53:39 <infernix> i've yet to come across panels that provide enough power to light more than just my lamps
Nov 15 02:53:46 <infernix> and that fit on a roof
Nov 15 02:54:21 <dgilmore> ive seen some systems that look promising
Nov 15 02:54:27 <dgilmore> even to cut power in half
Nov 15 02:54:34 <infernix> daytime only though?
Nov 15 02:54:36 <dgilmore> I run a lot of machines all teh time
Nov 15 02:55:03 <waldo_> anyone here ever use the java gdata library for regular non-android java applications?
Nov 15 02:55:23 <spikebike> hey waldo can you post your example
Nov 15 02:55:24 <spikebike> ?
Nov 15 02:55:50 <waldo_> spikebike: it's long.. basically I'm using the gdata library provided by google w/regular java and trying to get it to work in an android project
Nov 15 02:55:53 <waldo_> but I get this error:
Nov 15 02:56:13 <waldo_> W/System.err(  535): Caused by: java.io.IOException: Hostname <www.google.com> was not verified
Nov 15 02:56:14 <waldo_> W/System.err(  535): Caused by: java.io.IOException: Hostname <www.google.com> was not verified
Nov 15 02:56:15 <waldo_> whoops
Nov 15 02:56:18 <waldo_> just once
Nov 15 02:56:28 <waldo_> when I run the same code as a straight java application it works
Nov 15 02:56:41 <waldo_> when I run it as an android app on the emulator it gets that error
Nov 15 02:57:08 <waldo_> maybe i'll try it on the actual phone too
Nov 15 02:59:04 <waldo_> blah same auth error on the phone as the emulator
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 15 02:59:57 2008