**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 15 02:59:57 2008 Nov 15 03:00:22 * infernix wonders what's to verify about a hostname Nov 15 03:01:55 may have found solution: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/09f65bc1e3661263/b232f2117b67d0e7?#b232f2117b67d0e7 in case anyone else cares Nov 15 03:02:36 how are the security permissions handled Nov 15 03:02:50 isn't there a per process auth for network, sms, addressbook, gps, etc? Nov 15 03:03:09 actually this is less a solution and more just other people having the same issue Nov 15 03:03:13 there is Nov 15 03:03:16 it's in the manifest Nov 15 03:04:06 ok for a short term solution how about bigger batteries? Nov 15 03:04:19 google calls it a "service" I think Nov 15 03:04:32 heh, factory g1's don't even mess with the clock yet Nov 15 03:04:36 service is like "calendar", "finance" etc Nov 15 03:04:44 so power usage should get better Nov 15 03:04:59 and smarter software should help alot Nov 15 03:05:01 mess with the clock? Nov 15 03:05:11 ya, speed step or equiv Nov 15 03:05:19 idle at 66 Mhz instead of 500 Nov 15 03:05:40 I'd love to say if you see this acceess point in my office don't even try to use cellular Nov 15 03:05:46 actually, the clock speed is different depending on if the screen is active Nov 15 03:05:48 and if you are in this city don't even try 3 Nov 15 03:05:49 g Nov 15 03:06:02 danfuzz right, but not on cpu load Nov 15 03:06:25 i think it runs at 120MHz or 384MHz depending Nov 15 03:06:54 how long does the g1's battery last when it's completely idle, with all radio's and the screen off? anyone tried? Nov 15 03:06:58 yeah, we tried to do dynamic scaling and it led to a worse user experience Nov 15 03:07:09 so we backed off of than plan for 1.0 Nov 15 03:07:32 (where "we" was mostly my officemate) Nov 15 03:08:09 my wife used a g1 from 5am sat to 10pm sunday with everything on Nov 15 03:08:20 er not gps Nov 15 03:08:24 with radio off and no apps active, the power draw is minimal Nov 15 03:08:37 should be able to idle for a couple hundred hours Nov 15 03:08:38 radio on, mostly screen off cept for a few shortish calls Nov 15 03:08:40 danfuzz: but there is still hope for dynamic scaling, right? Nov 15 03:08:44 ya Nov 15 03:08:48 yes Nov 15 03:08:52 cool Nov 15 03:08:52 some folks are already playing with it Nov 15 03:09:02 he was working on it today, even Nov 15 03:09:12 waldo_: is it a cert problem with https? Nov 15 03:10:57 i still we can do cool stuff with our energy options Nov 15 03:11:04 leeds its' http or https doesn't matter Nov 15 03:11:12 leeds others are having this issue as well it seems Nov 15 03:13:51 imagine a device with a typical battery, but also with small subtle solar panels, a mechanism inside that absorbs kinetic energy Nov 15 03:14:07 is that really too sci-fi? Nov 15 03:14:55 heh Nov 15 03:18:40 typical conversion rates under ideal circumstances are around 50%, often much less Nov 15 03:19:26 so yeah basically a solar cell that fits on a cell phone is going to provide very little power Nov 15 03:19:32 same with kinetic energy Nov 15 03:19:41 Is there really no way to copy and paste normal text - say out of an email where I was told that my 'reset password' is now: "UJ$aR@iNngwq" and then paste it into a website password field? Nov 15 03:19:53 because there's no way in hell I'm typing that password out by hand Nov 15 03:20:14 ok with a wrist watch, that's plenty of power ... obviously an android device requires relatively lots more Nov 15 03:20:34 ya, like 500x Nov 15 03:20:44 if not 50,000 Nov 15 03:20:55 what a watch battery can power a watch for what years? Nov 15 03:20:57 what about a portable crank? Nov 15 03:21:00 anyone else worried about losing the door for their power/USB/headphone socket? Nov 15 03:21:11 ya Nov 15 03:21:15 Leeds: ya Nov 15 03:21:23 that and scratch the screen Nov 15 03:21:26 ing Nov 15 03:21:39 I've got a screen protector on - the guy I bought it from threw it in Nov 15 03:21:40 a portable crank? you could probably use a portable crank to charge batteries for use with an external USB-power supply thing Nov 15 03:22:01 I got a whole-body screen protector from bestskinsever.com for $8 + $1.99 shipping Nov 15 03:22:10 one of those invsi-shield like things Nov 15 03:22:13 imagine an android device that has a port (a whole) where u plug in ur crank and crank ur power Nov 15 03:22:24 I need to get a headphone adapter Nov 15 03:22:44 I wonder if it would be possible with a dremel and a lot of skill to put a 3.5 mm jack on this device Nov 15 03:22:59 RyeBrye: i like ur idea too Nov 15 03:23:06 lol sure if you can find the space Nov 15 03:23:40 http://androinica.com/2008/11/03/t-mobile-g1-gets-the-teardown-treatment/ on the top right corner by the camera Nov 15 03:23:57 how do those skins work with the sliding keyboard? Nov 15 03:24:26 They work fine Nov 15 03:24:35 they don't cover the keyboard or the back of the screen Nov 15 03:24:56 you could probably find space up there for a 3.5 mm jack, and then run wires down the side Nov 15 03:24:58 so there's a hole for the screen to slide out of? Nov 15 03:25:10 Leeds - yeah, it's not all one piece Nov 15 03:25:32 I've never liked cases for phones... Nov 15 03:25:39 http://www.bestskinsever.com/servlet/the-115/T-dsh-Mobile-G1-Skin/Detail Nov 15 03:25:43 that shows the different slices Nov 15 03:26:10 i see, thanks Nov 15 03:26:12 anyone tried the zagg invisible shield ones? Nov 15 03:26:21 does it affect the touchscreen sensitivity at all? Nov 15 03:26:36 i see ads for them on my site but havent heard much about them Nov 15 03:27:12 anybody using any type of cover? Nov 15 03:27:15 donio - not that I can tell Nov 15 03:27:25 sfuentes - you mean other than the one i just linked to? Nov 15 03:27:35 the skin thin seems silly Nov 15 03:27:39 yes :) Nov 15 03:27:42 the invisishield one is basically the same as the one I just linked to - but costs $30 or something Nov 15 03:27:44 I just want something screen shaped that's easy to apply Nov 15 03:27:45 Yeah, the skin thing is a bit nuts Nov 15 03:27:55 spikebike - you can get the screen only Nov 15 03:28:06 I don't need a super thin non-shock absorbing cover made of plastic to cover... plastic Nov 15 03:28:14 :) Nov 15 03:28:21 spikebike: agreed Nov 15 03:28:29 its double the plastic though Nov 15 03:28:29 i only worry about the screen. the rest can get beaten up for all i care, as long as it doesn't fall apart Nov 15 03:28:33 girls like plastic! Nov 15 03:28:36 The point is - when you scratch that plastic covering the plastic, you can replace that plastic for $4 Nov 15 03:28:37 spikebike: what about the screen? Nov 15 03:28:48 but replacing your whole screen is... > $4 Nov 15 03:28:51 Currently I'm using a tmo generic screen that has to be cut Nov 15 03:29:05 and it would really annoy me if it got scratched up Nov 15 03:29:13 RyeBrye: I think I just switch phones so often that it doesn't end up mattering to me Nov 15 03:29:15 (the screen not the g1) Nov 15 03:29:31 well even after switching you stillw ant to sell it Nov 15 03:29:39 and IMO a perfect screen helps Nov 15 03:29:42 what drives me nuts are fingerprints.. but thats just the way it is.. Nov 15 03:30:03 spikebike: I tend to give em away to friends/family Nov 15 03:30:18 I'm sure they wish you used a screen cover ;-) Nov 15 03:30:21 haha Nov 15 03:30:25 btw, can you be my friend? ;-) Nov 15 03:30:29 beggers can't be choosers :P Nov 15 03:30:32 Can I be your family? Nov 15 03:30:48 heh Nov 15 03:30:49 This is the first phone I've ever put any kind of cover on Nov 15 03:31:00 I didn't cover my n800 screen Nov 15 03:31:03 and it got destroyed Nov 15 03:31:05 and it's not the most expensive phone I've had by far - but I've learned :) Nov 15 03:31:06 splas, that's just OCD :) Nov 15 03:31:16 I busted a SE P910 and a SE P990 Nov 15 03:31:18 my N95 has gotten pretty scratched up in my pocket, shoulda done something there Nov 15 03:31:22 both of those phones were $$$ Nov 15 03:31:22 fwiw Nov 15 03:31:28 I've been using G1s for 18 months Nov 15 03:31:30 never scratched one Nov 15 03:31:36 and I carry them in my pocket with keys Nov 15 03:31:44 and in my backpack with tons of random stuff Nov 15 03:31:47 romainguy - you have one of those mystical white ones though, right? Nov 15 03:32:04 romainguy - that's cool... but all it takes is... well... one scratch :) Nov 15 03:32:17 I have a black one and a white one Nov 15 03:32:26 mine i put in a case... although I cannot feel the vibrate through it most of the time :-/ Nov 15 03:32:30 I'll trade you a couple of bucks for your white one Nov 15 03:32:36 romainguy_: you've only got 2? Nov 15 03:32:36 and I'll throw in a USB cable too! ;) Nov 15 03:32:41 (and 3 other black ones and another white one for that matter) Nov 15 03:32:50 that's more like it :-) Nov 15 03:32:50 but those are older prototypes Nov 15 03:33:04 Do you get engineering sims or something? Nov 15 03:33:13 How do you have that many SIM cards just lying around Nov 15 03:33:16 RyeBrye: it has lovely serial numbers laser etched all over the place :)) Nov 15 03:33:18 romainguy, no case or anything, just naked in your pocket? Nov 15 03:33:25 donio: just naked Nov 15 03:33:26 romainguy - just like my women! Nov 15 03:33:33 exactly Nov 15 03:33:36 haha Nov 15 03:33:51 romainguy: so the white ones really chip? Nov 15 03:33:52 lol! Nov 15 03:33:56 paint chip Nov 15 03:34:04 i wouldnt mind serial numbers for a cheap g1 lol Nov 15 03:34:08 I personally don't see the point of having personal devices that I would have to spend my time protecting and handling with satin gloves :p Nov 15 03:34:20 romainguy___: agreed Nov 15 03:34:23 yeah... I mostly wanted to cover my screen Nov 15 03:34:24 i dont even want the damned thing for a phone Nov 15 03:34:28 its like people who cover their furniture with plastic Nov 15 03:34:37 and the whole phone thing was only $2 more or something so I figured wth Nov 15 03:34:48 It does make it really easy to clean Nov 15 03:35:01 I can use it with all kinds of greasy finger prints and then just wipe them off with one motion Nov 15 03:35:05 just dunk it in bleach Nov 15 03:35:08 that will clean it Nov 15 03:35:08 SplasPood: hehe Nov 15 03:35:12 RyeBrye: just like with the regular screen :p Nov 15 03:35:46 SplasPood: what's wrong with plastic cover on furniture? Nov 15 03:35:49 question Nov 15 03:36:03 are the g1 screens hard glass or soft like (for those who know) an axim screen? Nov 15 03:36:06 if you're going to cover up what you just spent all this money on, whats the point Nov 15 03:36:13 DarkriftX: hard Nov 15 03:36:15 nice Nov 15 03:36:25 sfuentes, it's great, and that way you don't have to wear your diaper either! Nov 15 03:36:25 i wouldnt be worried then Nov 15 03:36:36 DarkriftX: I tried to scratch it with my keys really hard :p Nov 15 03:36:38 doesn't work Nov 15 03:36:44 the soft ones are a pain, the hard ones you can use those polish/buffer kits to fix Nov 15 03:37:08 my ipod is scratched to hell Nov 15 03:37:19 the screen or the case? Nov 15 03:37:26 the case mostly Nov 15 03:37:33 although I never use it for video so.. whatever Nov 15 03:37:44 yeah, but can fill in the scratches and buff it out :) Nov 15 03:37:52 i did that to my ipod Nov 15 03:38:04 and i didnt use it for video either Nov 15 03:38:06 fill in with what? Nov 15 03:38:07 i put linux on it :S Nov 15 03:38:18 clear polish, they sell kits for that Nov 15 03:38:30 romainguy - you tried scratching the screen with your keys? Nov 15 03:38:30 you put this polish on the screen and rub it in, let it dry and rub it off Nov 15 03:38:41 RyeBrye, wouldnt you if it was free? lol Nov 15 03:38:41 Hmm... cool. I wonder if brasso would fix any scratches that did get on it Nov 15 03:38:46 DarkriftX: oh, the screen is fine, I'd wanna shine up the metal Nov 15 03:38:47 Yeah, I would Nov 15 03:39:05 if it was free, and already engraved, id put it through hell Nov 15 03:39:11 well, if i had 5 more Nov 15 03:39:11 anyone know if the g1 hardware can do multitouch? Nov 15 03:39:18 I know the OS doesn't. Nov 15 03:39:22 its been asked a hundred times spikebike Nov 15 03:39:28 right Nov 15 03:39:29 always ends in a run around Nov 15 03:39:33 I'd totally take a engineering prototype ;) Nov 15 03:39:36 ah, thought someone might know Nov 15 03:39:41 hell yeah SplasPood Nov 15 03:39:49 I'd even pay for one.. Nov 15 03:40:14 I figured with the break down folks would have the chip list and an aswer Nov 15 03:40:31 SplasPood: the prototypes have crappier keyboards, crappier hinges, crappier battery cover, etc. Nov 15 03:40:35 can the google signup part of g1 setup be done via wifi? Nov 15 03:40:43 no Nov 15 03:40:44 romainguy__: true, but they're also rare/unique Nov 15 03:40:55 yeah, but so is a G1 Nov 15 03:41:00 SpasPood :) Nov 15 03:41:01 if that matters to you... :) Nov 15 03:41:19 RyeBrye: rare/unique? yes which is why I grabbed one... but not nearly as much, I figure Nov 15 03:41:21 anyone using app engine in here? Nov 15 03:41:27 ok.... spikebike is it locked to the sim you use? Nov 15 03:41:42 for example, would i be able to buy one, use a friends sim to set it up and then take the sim out and still use it? Nov 15 03:41:43 I've heard a way to get around it Nov 15 03:41:48 DarkriftX: by default, but you can unlock Nov 15 03:41:48 yeah, i read one also Nov 15 03:41:49 using a valid tmo simm Nov 15 03:42:07 yea Nov 15 03:42:11 basically i want a way to use the g1 without service Nov 15 03:42:21 i rarely use my phones as a phone lol Nov 15 03:42:23 tis kinda pointless.. Nov 15 03:42:24 and i hate tmo Nov 15 03:42:26 hmm, I'd hope a g1 would work as a pda without a sim (once activated), I've not tride Nov 15 03:42:34 no its not SplasPood Nov 15 03:42:40 spikebike: it works fine without a SIM Nov 15 03:42:42 once activated Nov 15 03:42:46 spikebike: that is what i have heard Nov 15 03:42:46 cool Nov 15 03:42:54 mine came preactivated Nov 15 03:42:58 I was tempted by an itouch before I heard of the g1 Nov 15 03:42:58 with some other guys google account Nov 15 03:42:59 so romainguy_ i could borrow a sim, set it up and then not need one after that? Nov 15 03:43:01 put an activated sim in the G1, and sign in with your google acct, then swap your sim back Nov 15 03:43:02 lack of gps and microphone is lame though Nov 15 03:43:11 so I stuck with my n800 Nov 15 03:43:18 DarkriftX: yes Nov 15 03:43:20 nice Nov 15 03:43:22 DarkriftX: thats what i have read before. Some article said it worked. Nov 15 03:43:31 but if you ever need to reset your data, you will ahve to do it again Nov 15 03:43:32 I miss the n800's pixels 8-( Nov 15 03:43:39 i c Nov 15 03:43:52 i can prob get my brothers sim cloned Nov 15 03:43:58 just for use in emergencies Nov 15 03:44:04 and alas I suspect nokia will be the last phone company to ship android Nov 15 03:44:09 i used to have a cloned tmo sim for my wizard Nov 15 03:44:21 I'd love to clone my sim Nov 15 03:44:32 they have the stuff to do it at the tmo stores Nov 15 03:44:45 i also had a clones sprint sim, but the asshole charged me like $30 to do it Nov 15 03:44:52 the tmo girl did it for free Nov 15 03:44:53 and they are willing to let you keep two active? Nov 15 03:44:55 romainguy_ - for dev stuff, do you know if an xmlbeans generated piece would perform ok on android? Nov 15 03:44:57 just told me to be quiet Nov 15 03:45:06 RyeBrye: a waht? Nov 15 03:45:08 I gotta find a friend who works for tmo then Nov 15 03:45:24 SplasPood, i told her i wanted one for the cheap phone (for calls) and one for the device to use internet Nov 15 03:45:36 I know cloning one type of the earlier model SIMs is easy, but I doubt I have one of those Nov 15 03:45:40 she told me it was possible but not allowed and gave me the look saying "sshhhhhh" Nov 15 03:45:59 romainguy_ - http://xmlbeans.apache.org/ - it takes a schema and generates a super-easy-to-use set of java files you use to munch all you want out of the file Nov 15 03:46:02 yea, gotta find me one of those Nov 15 03:46:18 ah yes Nov 15 03:46:22 I've used that thing in the past Nov 15 03:46:24 no idea Nov 15 03:46:40 if they don't use dyanmic loading and bytecode generation, sure it will work Nov 15 03:47:16 http://the-b.org/Android about skipping the activation Nov 15 03:49:26 romainguy_ - yeah, I'm lazy, and I found a schema for the gpsx files that are used by geocaching.com - so it should be a walk in the park to use xmlbeans to generate a file I can extract strongly-typed objects from the file and do cool stuff in android Nov 15 03:51:22 too bad you can't do it all while wearing a bluetooth stereo headset Nov 15 03:51:44 im sure its coming bert0 Nov 15 03:51:44 ryebrye I was playing with gpx files in python Nov 15 03:51:49 I think it was 3 lines to partse ;-) Nov 15 03:51:54 parse Nov 15 03:52:20 0 lines < 3 lines :) Nov 15 03:52:33 If I get it working with that, and it's a bottleneck of any kind, I'll rewrite it Nov 15 03:52:47 I just wanted a GPX file -> distance traveled Nov 15 03:53:01 ah, gotcha Nov 15 03:54:13 I want to parse out the waypoints from the file, along with the type of caches they are and their coordinates Nov 15 03:57:45 The email client wont currently download anything but images, will it? Nov 15 03:58:12 or does it download attachments that there are file handlers for? Nov 15 03:58:54 I saw on slashdot that someone was running debian on a G1 Nov 15 03:59:00 how the... Nov 15 03:59:14 bert0 - saurik - and others (I've done it) - not hard Nov 15 03:59:26 bert0 - well - not hard for those of us who followed saurik's instructions Nov 15 03:59:38 heh Nov 15 03:59:49 not too surprising Nov 15 04:00:09 any supported architecture with a kernel and root access Nov 15 04:00:11 where can I locate them? Nov 15 04:00:15 them waht? Nov 15 04:00:24 the instructions Nov 15 04:00:31 umm read the slashdot article Nov 15 04:00:32 bert0: it's just Linux, underneath :-) Nov 15 04:00:36 chroot Nov 15 04:00:44 google saurik debian g1 Nov 15 04:00:47 I'm sure it will be the top result Nov 15 04:00:57 saurik will do just fine Nov 15 04:01:03 his site comes up first result Nov 15 04:01:15 and the debian tutorial is the first result Nov 15 04:01:45 it's not particularly practical at the moment Nov 15 04:01:54 but it should get better Nov 15 04:02:07 does it run x? Nov 15 04:02:11 no Nov 15 04:02:19 heh Nov 15 04:02:36 x would suck unless you used a minimal wm like icewm Nov 15 04:02:48 and even that wouldnt look good on that screen Nov 15 04:03:22 there are so many linux command line apps though, with the android apps and those together, i cant see needing much more Nov 15 04:03:28 there are window managers that you never "see" Nov 15 04:03:31 android for gui, linux for cmmmand line Nov 15 04:03:34 i.e. every app is fullscreen Nov 15 04:04:22 i want to figfure out how to compile apps for android :( Nov 15 04:04:24 i want MC Nov 15 04:04:36 so what apps are amusing and run well on Debian for g1? Nov 15 04:04:47 I've just done command line apps in debian on g1 Nov 15 04:04:54 but... anything that runs on debian arm Nov 15 04:05:10 RyeBrye, what about native compiling on the g1? that work? Nov 15 04:05:29 sure Nov 15 04:05:31 yeah, I compiled busybox and parted on the g1 Nov 15 04:05:36 nice Nov 15 04:05:56 8GB is plenty for a build environment Nov 15 04:06:04 even 750MB Nov 15 04:06:06 saurik, how would i go about compiling apps for the g1? i was going through the steps and i built android already Nov 15 04:06:20 DarkriftX: like a graphical application? I have no clue yet, I haven't looked into that Nov 15 04:06:25 for example i have busybox source Nov 15 04:06:35 oh, you don't need to compile android for that sort of thig Nov 15 04:06:39 i wanted to compile that, but when i do its always x86 Nov 15 04:06:41 you mean just "compile apps for arm eabi linux" Nov 15 04:06:49 basically Nov 15 04:06:51 just compile it on the g1, its conceptually much simpler Nov 15 04:06:52 hey guys, i am getting null pointer exception when i try to use gps Nov 15 04:06:54 and i have included Nov 15 04:06:55 Nov 15 04:06:55 Nov 15 04:06:59 what could be wrong? Nov 15 04:07:02 i was told to do that to have bionic compiled Nov 15 04:07:05 saurik - that's a good point Nov 15 04:07:18 it has been working before, it just stopped working and giving me null pointer exception now Nov 15 04:07:19 saurik, i dont have a g1 yet :( Nov 15 04:07:28 bionic is just a c library, and a very limited one at that; use glibc Nov 15 04:07:31 saurik - does the openjdk compile on ARM? i.e. would we have a full jdk / jre in debian? Nov 15 04:07:47 im wanting to start compiling lots of apps so when i do get one (and for others hwo want them) Nov 15 04:07:49 saurik have nfs working yet? Nov 15 04:07:52 rye: you probaby already have one, apt-cache search for java Nov 15 04:08:00 spike: I don't use NFS, but NFS should just work out of the box Nov 15 04:08:09 * saurik tries to make this very clear: Nov 15 04:08:15 the G1 is just a computer, running linux, like any other Nov 15 04:08:43 ther's nothing weird or magical about it, about how you compile programs for it or how you setup services or daemons on it Nov 15 04:08:50 androoid: ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION ? Nov 15 04:08:54 ryebrye why jdk/jre over dalvik? Nov 15 04:09:18 DarkriftX: I'd wait until you get one; like, I can't imagine much you'd want to cross compile that isn't already in debian Nov 15 04:09:23 SplasPood: i have that in there Nov 15 04:09:25 static busybox needs uclibc Nov 15 04:09:39 the code was working before for weeks, it just stopped working now Nov 15 04:09:41 androoid: I don't actually know but is it really 'FINE' and not 'FILE' ? Nov 15 04:09:47 which is a pita Nov 15 04:09:47 How could I view mythTV from my android? Nov 15 04:09:52 hrmmm Nov 15 04:10:17 bert0 - you mean live streaming? Nov 15 04:10:19 fnordg1: only if you need uid/gid or dns resolution, you can get dns rather easily with the default NSS provider, and you can even get those static with some work on glibc Nov 15 04:10:19 i guess that is true Nov 15 04:10:24 this makes no sense Nov 15 04:10:26 fnordg1: so no, that's incorrect Nov 15 04:10:40 bert0 - you'd be better off writing something that would transcode on the mythtv backend and then watch that streamed on the phone Nov 15 04:10:41 yea, live streaming Nov 15 04:10:42 when I finish libnss_android we'll even have that working 100% with glibc Nov 15 04:10:45 i was mainly thinking of mc, an irc client Nov 15 04:11:00 androoid: a google tells me it really is, sorry man Nov 15 04:11:13 DarkriftX: isn't mc a file manager? midnight commander? its definitly in debian; irssi (an irc client) is definitely in debian as well Nov 15 04:11:21 saurik: yeh? rebuilding glibc? Nov 15 04:11:25 SplasPood: I think it's FINE as in fine-grained - GPS - location as opposed to the rough location you get from cell triangulation Nov 15 04:11:32 yeah, thats what i mean Nov 15 04:11:35 Leeds: yea, it was a blind guess Nov 15 04:11:35 you are probably right Nov 15 04:11:39 i am doing both Leeds Nov 15 04:11:49 and yes, mc = midnight commander Nov 15 04:11:53 I just want to know if anyone has their tricorder sensor working yet Nov 15 04:11:54 i added both permissions and it's still giving the nullpointerexception Nov 15 04:11:55 best file manger in the world! Nov 15 04:12:05 fnordg1: yes, although that's only needed for the fully static busybox as you need --enable-static-nss Nov 15 04:12:11 like old school qfiler i had in dos lol Nov 15 04:12:56 something like http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/4f090a1a522457e1/37f346348c2b77df?lnk=gst&q=nullpointerexception+gps#37f346348c2b77df Nov 15 04:13:19 so saurik how long does it take to setup debian on a rooted g1? Nov 15 04:13:30 and do you have to redo it each time (if so , can it be scripted?) Nov 15 04:13:41 each time = each reboot Nov 15 04:13:50 default is HVGA for the emulator right? Nov 15 04:13:51 DarkriftX: have you read the instructions? Nov 15 04:13:55 yes Nov 15 04:13:58 but i cant do them Nov 15 04:14:02 so i dont know the timeframes Nov 15 04:14:04 you should wait until you get a G1 Nov 15 04:14:08 and then everything will be much more clear Nov 15 04:14:09 its fast Nov 15 04:14:15 and you will have many fewer questions Nov 15 04:14:57 also, by that time the instructions are going to be much awesomer; like, I got my static parted compiled last night and tested it today, which means the loopback stuff can go away and we can regain USB mounting of the main SD card Nov 15 04:15:06 * saurik is going to work on integrating this into the instructions tomorrow Nov 15 04:15:15 sweet Nov 15 04:15:18 this also means I'm one step closer to making the entire process automated Nov 15 04:15:19 nice Nov 15 04:15:22 it would probably make sense for me to brush up a little on my java before diving in and trying to write stuff... Nov 15 04:15:47 * saurik wants to have a simple program that can be run that lets you resize your existing installation and install debian Nov 15 04:15:54 saurik figure out what you need from initrc and bug JF to put it in his next release Nov 15 04:15:59 androoid: GPS is turned off? Nov 15 04:16:04 spikebike: I will (of course) be doing that ;P Nov 15 04:16:14 Leeds: it's turned on Nov 15 04:16:16 heh, yeah, kinda obvious Nov 15 04:16:24 just throwing stuff out... Nov 15 04:16:38 sh /system/etc/rc.local ! Nov 15 04:16:50 code was working for weeks, stopped working after i upload it to the market.. fail Nov 15 04:17:13 does your original still work? Nov 15 04:17:32 i'm using the same manifest from the older version Nov 15 04:17:35 and it's still broken Nov 15 04:17:42 i'm wiping the phone to factory right now Nov 15 04:17:55 and if that doesn't work, i'll try the last version Nov 15 04:18:19 * saurik task switches his brain back to iPhone-land, later Nov 15 04:18:27 lol Nov 15 04:18:28 later Nov 15 04:18:59 saurik, you should offer isntructions for free, but the full installer for a couple dollars :) im sure ppl would pay for htat Nov 15 04:19:05 but still gives them a free choice Nov 15 04:22:24 I was pondering a couple different small but useful apps Nov 15 04:22:44 licensed opensource, but for $1 on the market Nov 15 04:22:47 my older verison works... what could that mean? Nov 15 04:22:49 er when the market allows such things Nov 15 04:23:43 the market somehow changed it Nov 15 04:23:58 try to find differences Nov 15 04:24:01 do you have root? Nov 15 04:41:02 my gps keeps giving me nullpointerexception..... why Nov 15 04:41:36 you are in the nexus of the universe? Nov 15 04:42:46 this makes no sense Nov 15 04:42:53 all roads lead to androoid Nov 15 04:53:42 anyone have a recent gpx file from geocaching.com? Nov 15 04:54:47 umm Nov 15 04:54:53 oh, no Nov 15 04:55:15 Yeah, I had a premium account with them, but I cancled it in 06 after not having done anything with it for about a year or mor Nov 15 04:55:31 I wonder if they are still using GPX 1.0 or if they are on GPX 1.1 now... I guess I'll pay $7 and find out Nov 15 04:56:06 They give you a crapton of information in their pocket query things. It would be nicer to just pull the information on demand - but I'll stick with what is easy for now Nov 15 04:56:44 alright peoples. Who is bored? Nov 15 05:01:09 hey, is it possible to activate a g1 with a prepaid t-mobile sim? Nov 15 05:02:26 try it Nov 15 05:06:29 yeah i'll try tomorrow when I get one, but im leaving the US on sunday so I want to plan ahead in case i'll actually need to get my hands on non-prepaid sim Nov 15 05:28:10 Anyone in here mess with the LocationManager yet? Nov 15 05:28:14 Hey guys, i'm trying to get more into android development and I wanted to know if android will run off of the java api as well Nov 15 05:28:29 ITechJunkie it seems like it has been so far Nov 15 05:28:36 (so yes) Nov 15 05:28:44 import java.util.ArrayList; Nov 15 05:28:44 import java.util.Date; Nov 15 05:28:57 Do you know what the difference between android.net and java.net is? Nov 15 05:29:27 They obviously operate differently, but they appear to have the same function... am I wrong? Nov 15 05:29:49 android may have specifics to the phone, any classes you want to throw out? Nov 15 05:29:52 in particular Nov 15 05:30:34 Well, i was looking at creating sockets earilers... so android.net.LocalSocket vs java.net.Socket Nov 15 05:30:55 ITechJunkie, what you makin bacon? Nov 15 05:31:58 do3boy: I'm just trying to learn how to program in android. I wanted to make an app where I press a button and it pings my host app Nov 15 05:33:14 It may just be me, but there seems to be a shortage of good, descriptive resources available to learn with. Nov 15 05:33:22 Maybe i'm not looking in the right place. Nov 15 05:33:24 have you tried the api Nov 15 05:34:51 d03boy: possibily? I'm a n00b programmer. I was on google's site earlier looking the android.net.Socket command... Nov 15 05:36:03 ITechJunkie Nov 15 05:36:04 http://www.androidjavadoc.com/1.0_r1_src/index.html Nov 15 05:36:09 take a look at the javadoc Nov 15 05:36:09 I'm started off by getting my feet wet, but there's so much that now i'm trying to keep my head above the water lol Nov 15 05:36:19 but the best way is to jump in! Nov 15 05:36:21 Cay|Home: thanks, i'll do that Nov 15 05:36:26 too true Nov 15 05:36:29 worse case scenario you waste a few hours Nov 15 05:36:52 Eclipse + Android Plugin + SDK emulator means easy going Nov 15 05:37:12 I guess i'm on the right track then Nov 15 05:37:14 all can be found here: http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html Nov 15 05:38:25 yeah, i've got that part done... what i'm really trying to wrap my head around now is how to make it all work together. I have a background of procedural programming and all of this OOP is really new Nov 15 05:38:31 for me Nov 15 05:39:07 ask questions Nov 15 05:39:09 get answers Nov 15 05:39:25 let me get my list Nov 15 05:39:28 lol Nov 15 05:39:45 haha proceedural to oop, don't mind me I might just throw a book at you Nov 15 05:39:58 On other notes, the javadoc is lieing to me Nov 15 05:40:06 or there are no providers on this phone >:( Nov 15 05:40:20 but since the google maps gps system IS working, I'm calling lies Nov 15 05:40:34 lol, sounds like you've got your own problems your hammering out Nov 15 05:41:10 Cay|Home: and that link was just what I was looking for. Thanks man Nov 15 05:41:16 np Nov 15 05:41:22 and yeah I am Nov 15 05:42:33 LocationManager lm = (LocationManager)getSystemService(Context.LOCATION_SERVICE); Nov 15 05:42:33 Something else i'm having to learn, on top of OOP structure, is Java reserved words and syntax structure... Nov 15 05:42:46 well you can ask us thsoe questions Nov 15 05:43:22 ITechJunkie think C++ and you are good to go Nov 15 05:43:35 d03boy: awesome, I've really be lucky that the android community is so cool Nov 15 05:43:55 except if you have a habbit of using goto statements the world will thank you for moving to a language that reserves goto but doesn't use it Nov 15 05:44:13 hahah yeah goto used to be a staple for me Nov 15 05:44:27 goto is that of asm coders Nov 15 05:44:51 yeah, doesn't mean I didn't die a little on the inside everytime I see it an app Nov 15 05:44:56 Of course, I was writing Winbatch code when I was using those... anyone heard of Winbatch before? Nov 15 05:46:10 batch script? Nov 15 05:46:15 Its not batch programming... more like a watered down visual basic... it's pretty oldschool and never got that big... sadly it handicapped me when I taught myself it Nov 15 05:46:35 lots of bad habits in that language Nov 15 05:48:14 I understand how the xml file creates and manages the GUI, but how do I make the GUI and code work together? I mean, how do I make my button ping? Nov 15 05:49:31 ITechJunkie if I can get this running I'll pass the source so you can look at it Nov 15 05:49:53 can someone help me with a nullpointerexception i'm getting even though i have the permissions set for locationmanager? Nov 15 05:49:53 Cay|Home: awesome, I love examples Nov 15 05:50:08 androoid, why dont you do some exception handling Nov 15 05:50:10 ITechJunkie take a look at the example code for the notepad Nov 15 05:50:15 hahaha ^ Nov 15 05:50:37 androoid read the javadocs and debug it. I'm doing exactly that to LocationManager right now Nov 15 05:50:40 ITechJunkie, essentially you would just Button btn = (Button) findViewById(R.id.some_btn); btn.setOnClickListener(my_listener); Nov 15 05:51:04 Cay|Home: it was working and all of a sudden it stopped working and i can't figure it out why Nov 15 05:51:07 and yes, study the notepad examples Nov 15 05:51:09 Cay|Home: oh yeah, I forgot. I took the examples off of the SDK and compiled them and put them on my phone. I forgot I could look at those for examples Nov 15 05:51:32 it's breaking at the line ......... l = lManager.getLastKnownLocation("gps"); Nov 15 05:51:49 androoid, then lManager == null Nov 15 05:52:22 ^ Nov 15 05:52:24 then i did something like if (l == null) { l = lManager.getLastKnownLocation("network"); } Nov 15 05:52:37 androoid take a look at the statics that belong to the class Nov 15 05:52:40 KNY: so btn.setOnClickListener(my_listener); is that the class that I build to run my method? or is that the method? Nov 15 05:52:42 Location loc = lm.getLastKnownLocation(LocationManager.GPS_PROVIDER); Nov 15 05:52:55 ITechJunkie, read the docs :) Nov 15 05:53:05 kk Nov 15 05:53:10 ...which ones? Nov 15 05:53:13 but more importantly the problem I'm having androoid is that I can't get it to FIND any of the providers Nov 15 05:53:14 ITechJunkie, there are a lot of good examples there Nov 15 05:53:37 the docs on googles android dev site? Nov 15 05:53:41 ITechJunkie: look at the javadocs I sent you earlier they answer 99% of the questions on what something does, then google up for example code it's all over the place out there Nov 15 05:53:54 Cay|Home: will do Nov 15 05:53:57 ITechJunkie, http://www.google.com/cse?oe=utf8&ie=utf8&source=uds&start=0&cref=http%3A%2F%2Fcode.google.com%2Fcse%2Fgooglecode-context.xml&hl=en&q=setOnClickListener+more%3Aandroid Nov 15 05:54:10 KNY: thanks man. I'll take a look at that. Nov 15 05:54:19 Heh, you guys will teach me something yet Nov 15 05:54:28 http://www.google.com/cse?oe=utf8&ie=utf8&source=uds&start=0&cref=http%3A%2F%2Fcode.google.com%2Fcse%2Fgooglecode-context.xml&hl=en&q=setOnClickListener+more%3Aandroid Nov 15 05:54:30 i have that allready Cay|Home Nov 15 05:54:36 ITechJunkie, you'll learn more if you teach yourself Nov 15 05:54:47 androoid Location loc = lm.getLastKnownLocation(LocationManager.GPS_PROVIDER);? Nov 15 05:54:51 and it's running alive? Nov 15 05:55:00 Mine keeps throwing a runtime error Nov 15 05:55:01 whats wrong with just .getLastKnownLocation("gps"); Nov 15 05:55:10 because what if it isn't "gps" Nov 15 05:55:17 what if it is "GpS" Nov 15 05:55:27 or "gummagummagummawinwin" Nov 15 05:55:36 or what if it changes! Nov 15 05:55:37 KNY: yeah, definately. I'm not looking for anyone to give me the answers but it sure is a time saver when someone will point me in the right direction. Nov 15 05:55:40 even if it is GPS Nov 15 05:56:03 ITechJunkie, yeah, just saying that it's best to make the mistakes yourself and then come to us when you get stuck :) Nov 15 05:56:21 KNY: for sure man Nov 15 05:56:34 that is still giving me nullpointerexception Nov 15 05:56:57 androoid that's because there's a problem with the instantiation of LocationManager Nov 15 05:57:02 LocationManager lm = (LocationManager)getSystemService(Context.LOCATION_SERVICE); Nov 15 05:57:20 debugging it showed that it comes back instantiated (not null) but with all it's values set as null Nov 15 05:57:29 so there is an important missing step (that I'm looking for myself) Nov 15 05:57:33 thats what i have Nov 15 05:57:43 That basically catches you up to where I am in knowledge though Nov 15 05:57:51 ok Nov 15 05:57:55 this is just very weird Nov 15 05:58:02 i am not sure what is going on Nov 15 05:58:06 yeah, that's why I'm digging :D Nov 15 05:58:14 so androoid what is your project eh Nov 15 05:58:27 i've been searching on the developr gruop, all people say is they add the manifest Nov 15 05:58:30 and it works Nov 15 05:58:41 and some don't get any replies to any solutions Nov 15 05:59:04 most likely you need to add to your manifest Nov 15 05:59:33 I haven't messed around with the manifest at all Nov 15 05:59:42 you need to add that permission Nov 15 05:59:43 I figured it would auto handle that for me Nov 15 06:00:17 damn T-Mobile... none of my SMSes will send Nov 15 06:00:28 i think t-mobile is brokens Nov 15 06:00:38 do your sms'es send? Nov 15 06:00:42 * RyeBrye thinks they just hate me Nov 15 06:00:51 but not likely since maps works... for some reason.... Nov 15 06:01:06 Is it bad practice to have classes within classes? Forexample: Class1 -> Subclass Nov 15 06:01:22 depends on what you are having the inner class do Nov 15 06:01:52 oh I like you androoid Nov 15 06:02:04 RyeBrye: okay thanks Nov 15 06:02:30 yeah, except i have that in my manifest and gphone still hates me Nov 15 06:02:53 don't worry I'm still getting null back Nov 15 06:02:57 return loc != null ? loc.toString() : "We've got some serious problems here guyz"; Nov 15 06:03:08 try using network Nov 15 06:03:35 same null Nov 15 06:03:48 try it on my phone Nov 15 06:03:55 Phone works fine Nov 15 06:04:02 androoid are you using the emulator? Nov 15 06:04:08 i'm using the phone Nov 15 06:04:15 i should try on the emulator actually Nov 15 06:04:18 do you have your gps turned on? Nov 15 06:04:22 yes Nov 15 06:04:29 nah, don't waste your time :( it doesn't work Nov 15 06:04:38 maybe gps isn't getting a lock? Nov 15 06:04:39 try opening google maps, having it find you Nov 15 06:04:42 i've did factory reset like 5x allready and recompiled all versions of codes Nov 15 06:04:42 or that Nov 15 06:04:54 and they all return nullpointer Nov 15 06:04:56 androoid try having google maps get the lock on you Nov 15 06:05:02 i did, it works Nov 15 06:05:13 after doing that did you try your app? Nov 15 06:05:19 i can see the gps symbol going off Nov 15 06:05:21 or did you turn it off/change anything Nov 15 06:06:03 playing on words here but get_LAST_knownlocation might not be the best if it's looking for something else looking for it (where the observer object LocationListener comes into play) Nov 15 06:06:49 the locationlistener changes every second, i don't want to do that, i'm only trying to get the gps every so minutes Nov 15 06:06:57 to conserve battery Nov 15 06:07:09 maybe it's because of edge network... Nov 15 06:07:14 nope Nov 15 06:07:16 I'm on EDGE Nov 15 06:07:20 kansas city baby Nov 15 06:07:27 we wont see 3g till the end of hell Nov 15 06:07:46 bush leaves office? Nov 15 06:08:00 god I hope so Nov 15 06:08:02 sooner the better Nov 15 06:08:05 (yay obama) Nov 15 06:08:17 (not yay obama) Nov 15 06:08:27 (yes yay obama, gimmie taxes!) Nov 15 06:08:56 well really, don't give me neo conservativism; give me FDR Nov 15 06:10:17 we are doomed either way Nov 15 06:11:18 meh it can't be worse Nov 15 06:11:27 we can all be happy that Palin isn't in there Nov 15 06:11:31 yes Nov 15 06:11:50 I was seriously scared that my being agnostic would find me on a cross burning Nov 15 06:12:48 I had no real quarrels with McCain and if anything he was a great canidate to run against Obama after 8 years of Bush Nov 15 06:13:03 hahaha, well... i dunno about that. I mean jeez, i come from conservative roots but even I had to vote democratic this year. The republican party was a circus this year Nov 15 06:13:05 moron Nov 15 06:13:12 I must have broke my phone, because I have another phone using the same version of software and it's able to get GPS fixes... Nov 15 06:14:00 android support is still manning phones at tmbile Nov 15 06:14:06 ITechJunkie what were your issues with him? Nov 15 06:14:07 they are up late Nov 15 06:14:12 Cay|Home: who? Nov 15 06:14:27 ITechJunkie? Nov 15 06:14:31 oh! Nov 15 06:14:34 McCain Nov 15 06:14:45 Coming from a conservative aspect Nov 15 06:15:07 6 AM -> 1AM EST is pretty long for tech support, wow Nov 15 06:15:50 (I did have issues with him but I figured it would be 4 years of nothing happening in the government which can typically be a good thing. I guess thinking about it he would have added more facist policies of "oh god no terrorists") Nov 15 06:16:21 hmmmmmm... politics? Nov 15 06:16:24 ;/ Nov 15 06:16:26 Cay|Home: Mainly that he was running a dirty race. He changed his position too many times along the way and he made stuff up about Obama's policies. Nov 15 06:16:29 gotta love him Nov 15 06:16:31 love them* Nov 15 06:16:49 gop is shit Nov 15 06:16:55 Cay|Home: I kinda feel like Palin was just a publicity stunt too... Nov 15 06:16:57 and im repub Nov 15 06:17:12 ITechJunkie how is this different then any other election Nov 15 06:18:43 Cay|Home: True, the thing that turned me away from McCain the most was the fact that he brought in Palin. He also has issues about controlling his emotions and making decent judgement IMHO Nov 15 06:18:55 I'm neither, my policys tend to lean socialist (give money to schools, police, research and development, regulate business, the people need health care, etc). Nov 15 06:19:21 But I grew up low-income and jumped up pretty fast in the IT world Nov 15 06:19:25 my policy is to stop giving government control over my monies Nov 15 06:19:25 man i thought elections was over Nov 15 06:19:35 androoid: hahaha Nov 15 06:19:43 yeah.... I got trolled into that Nov 15 06:19:50 anywho! Nov 15 06:20:07 androoid I'd say you probably fucked up your phone along the way or your system settings aren't right Nov 15 06:20:15 i think so too Nov 15 06:20:29 i did factory reset and i dont think it does anything Nov 15 06:20:30 but if you google maps works Nov 15 06:20:35 Tmobile won't fix it Nov 15 06:20:41 so figure out a way to break that phone Nov 15 06:20:52 if it's pre rc30 you can telnet in as root Nov 15 06:20:59 start a rm -rf / Nov 15 06:21:03 i just got the rc30 update today...... Nov 15 06:21:05 i think thats why Nov 15 06:21:21 could be Nov 15 06:21:23 but it was working all day.... it broke after i downloaded from the market Nov 15 06:21:26 I'm not going to update... Nov 15 06:21:35 no? Nov 15 06:21:41 Cay|Home: I have to ask man. What kind of job do you have? Development or something more network related? Nov 15 06:21:43 just use the modded. Nov 15 06:21:52 spikebike ? Nov 15 06:22:03 ITechJunkie I'm the lead development architect Nov 15 06:22:26 there is a modded rc30 so you can keep roto Nov 15 06:22:28 root Nov 15 06:22:48 Cay|Home: awesome... i'm still at the crossroads and i'm figuring out that network design isn't as glamerous as I thought Nov 15 06:22:59 Cisco blows Nov 15 06:23:10 Yeah, I was kinda happy that I didn't have to take a true architect position Nov 15 06:23:43 I still do all the planning with the network guys but I focus more on "this is what i need for development to work, you make it happen so that the SOAP requests work kthxbai" Nov 15 06:24:10 hm SOAP....... fun Nov 15 06:24:16 nice and slippery Nov 15 06:24:21 nothing wrong with soap Nov 15 06:24:25 I've already gotton my CCNA and now I'm headed down the security route. It's more interesting. Ethical hacking has it's limits though. Nov 15 06:24:27 I just find that it has a lot of overhead Nov 15 06:25:14 meh, I'm going back to college in 2 or 3 years. I think I'm ready to focus on my degree in history Nov 15 06:25:50 Cay|Home: I appreciate history a lot more now then I did when I was in HS Nov 15 06:25:58 eh, a bit of insight, I'm 21 Nov 15 06:26:03 when I go to maps and theres a blue circle around the dot, does that mean thats the accuracy range? Nov 15 06:26:07 Cay|Home: i'm 18 Nov 15 06:26:10 lol Nov 15 06:26:15 androoid try running down the street Nov 15 06:26:15 i'm 23..... :( Nov 15 06:26:21 well hey! Nov 15 06:26:26 I don't feel young anymore Nov 15 06:26:36 heh, smarter way to get a G1 and save nearly 30 bucks. walk in with someone who already has a G1 and have them refer you to save 25 bucks ;-) Nov 15 06:26:44 most people at my company (I work at a large bank) look at me and there like "and you're not 50 how did you get here?" Nov 15 06:26:45 Cay|Home: yea, i'm the noobie on the block now Nov 15 06:26:49 heh Nov 15 06:26:56 hey walk into a store and get free minutes Nov 15 06:27:08 or another $25 Nov 15 06:27:17 yea... Nov 15 06:27:22 http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/11/14/t-mobile-customer-delight-day-free-minutes/ Nov 15 06:28:07 Cay|Home: tell you what though, i'm glad i bust my ass in school. I was able to land a decent job just in time for me to get married... 6 months later I had a kid... Imagine the looks I get lol Nov 15 06:28:14 ITechJunkie you want some books to read on development, check out the head first series. I seriously suggest Java then there servlets book then there design patterns book (based on the original GoF) Nov 15 06:28:33 hi guys Nov 15 06:28:36 Cay|Home: i've got the Java version right in front of me Nov 15 06:28:43 ITechJunkie read it! Nov 15 06:28:48 how easy is it to write apps for android ? Nov 15 06:28:49 dont read it Nov 15 06:28:50 Head First is really good Nov 15 06:28:54 is the api easy to follow ? Nov 15 06:28:59 floppyears, babies can do it Nov 15 06:29:05 floppyears http://www.androidjavadoc.com/1.0_r1_src/index.html Nov 15 06:29:08 javadoc Nov 15 06:29:09 gogoogogoogogo Nov 15 06:29:27 d03boy: babies? Nov 15 06:29:31 * ITechJunkie feels dumb Nov 15 06:29:45 awesome, I want to write an app, that allows me to listen to npr stuff Nov 15 06:29:58 no Nov 15 06:30:16 floppyears why don't you just download the stream file and play it? Nov 15 06:30:55 I want some easy interface so that I don't have to navigate their complex site Nov 15 06:30:56 are you planning on making an FM radio or something out of your phone (you may be sad to find out you need hardware to read that band) Nov 15 06:31:19 I want to have something like: http://www.npr.org/api/queryGenerator.php Nov 15 06:31:48 Cay|Home: npr offers an api so that you can easily browse their content and it provides a link to the mp3 file Nov 15 06:32:20 yeah, so make one if you want to make one :D Nov 15 06:32:38 really if it's within the hardware limitations anything can be done but research (lots of) will need to be done Nov 15 06:32:52 and the javadoc is the best place to start Nov 15 06:32:56 thanks Nov 15 06:33:03 Cay|Home: If I get fluent in java how long do you think it would take to transition to android? Nov 15 06:33:16 it's pretty much all java Nov 15 06:33:26 thats what I was thinking Nov 15 06:33:27 it's all java Nov 15 06:33:30 but! Nov 15 06:33:32 ways of thinking Nov 15 06:33:35 and your apps Nov 15 06:33:40 and how to think your way through apps Nov 15 06:33:59 what are some popular apps that you guys recommend from the app store ? Nov 15 06:34:04 Design patterns wouldn't hurt to read Nov 15 06:34:09 but it may still be a bit over your head Nov 15 06:34:24 so yeah just read your java book and go get your scjp :D Nov 15 06:35:07 Cay|Home: lol... but I wanna know it all now dangit! Nov 15 06:35:25 ITechJunkie have you cracked open that book yet? Nov 15 06:35:34 know any good java books? Nov 15 06:36:10 Definately, I'm several chapters into it. and I've been skipping around to learn about networking and threads too Nov 15 06:36:38 get the java book by Woo Nov 15 06:36:52 provides lots of good examples Nov 15 06:37:28 Cay|Home: what I really need to is force myself to sit down and read it all the way through. Time is just so hard to come by for me so I have a hard time sitting my butt down to read this book when I feel like I should be studying more android related things Nov 15 06:37:49 ITechJunkie don't look at the networking things Nov 15 06:38:02 Cay|Home: okay, whys that? Nov 15 06:38:29 You need to get the concept that everything is just an object and in the end it breaks down to strings (and if you really want to get technical binary, but I like to look .. off topic) Nov 15 06:38:38 Networking, how it bit shifts doesn't matter Nov 15 06:38:42 it's taken care of for you Nov 15 06:38:58 you just need to know it does it in the best way it can (until you get a Ph.D in development) Nov 15 06:39:09 in java Nov 15 06:39:28 I guess the real thing is figure out how the language works first (read from page 1 to 500x) Nov 15 06:39:34 don't skip around Nov 15 06:40:11 and don't be afraid to play but if times of the essence do nothing else then read read read till you are done then go back to life (you said you have a kid don't lose him to neglect) Nov 15 06:40:19 My spelling may be horrible Nov 15 06:40:28 mIRC doesn't have a built in spell checker :( Nov 15 06:40:46 T-mobile PDA / Blackberry / Android support people are pretty cool Nov 15 06:40:51 Cay|Home: I'll do that. Although, I have to point out that networking is a concept that I am more than familar with... The problems is that I don't have a strong enough grasp on OOP. and it's a she :) Nov 15 06:40:53 And they are up way late Nov 15 06:41:31 psh maybe I should have used "it" :P Nov 15 06:41:42 For some reason, my SMS outbound was screwed up and it required them to push me two messages and then have me hard reboot my phone... Any way I can figure out what the contents of those messages was? Nov 15 06:41:53 Cay|Home: hahah, maybe. Nov 15 06:42:47 anywho, OOP is a wonderful thing (but believe it or not AOP is starting to argue with some of it's fundamental believes... assholes) Nov 15 06:43:00 Cay|Home: Well, I figure I have a mission for this weekend now... I'm gonna go get started on that and finish fixing my in-laws virus ridden computer... *crosses fingers* Nov 15 06:43:45 Keep this in mind, if you make generic classes that are loosely coupled (don't know anything about what it's talking to except it will return x value) then you are good to go -- you should be able to hook into them with just about anything. Nov 15 06:44:00 IE a database class that imports the connection information from a properties file Nov 15 06:44:26 it can be reused versus a database class that does all the manual inserting and and connection info inside of the class Nov 15 06:44:45 ITechJunkie gross Nov 15 06:45:27 no kiddin. Nov 15 06:45:38 I'll keep all of that in mind man, I'm grabbing a pen and paper now Nov 15 06:46:23 Actually does anyone know if the android is running anytype of db that I can hook into and make a table? Nov 15 06:46:25 Thanks for your insight on this. I think that in these early stages what I really need sometimes is for someone to tell me to slow down and do it the right way. Nov 15 06:48:40 guess it's making xml files it is Nov 15 06:49:30 yawn Nov 15 06:50:05 You guys take it easy Nov 15 06:50:15 enjoy Nov 15 06:50:46 have you figured out the locationmanager problem yet Cay|Home? Nov 15 06:51:00 Cay|Home: thanks again. I'll look you up later Nov 15 06:59:55 I just had an "Ah-Hah" moment Nov 15 07:00:11 Is the reason the audio API sucks monkey dick because of T-mobile saying that they wanted to "work hard" to prevent a decent VOIP? Nov 15 07:00:42 like... not real-time snagging or processing of the audio? just this crazy record-to-a-compressed-buffer crazyiness? Nov 15 07:00:47 * gambler taps nose Nov 15 07:01:04 60/40 your right Nov 15 07:01:38 Yeah, probably... because I was going to write a spectrum analyzer just for kicks - but there is no decent way to get an audio stream Nov 15 07:06:45 anyone seen the iPhone app that lets you play the whistle thing Nov 15 07:06:50 ocarina or somethin Nov 15 07:09:38 yeh Nov 15 07:15:16 omg it finally works Nov 15 07:15:26 out of nowhere! Nov 15 07:19:07 ? Nov 15 07:22:01 where is google earth for android? Nov 15 07:48:45 Someone going to write a modified mail application that can handle attachments properly? Nov 15 07:53:08 no Nov 15 08:02:14 oh cool, an upload to s3 app for the g1 Nov 15 08:03:44 s3? Nov 15 08:05:09 ,ml Nov 15 08:05:49 neat Nov 15 08:05:51 oh awesome, i just realized that bender is a robot, and falls under the android classification Nov 15 08:05:59 umdk1d3: ? Nov 15 08:06:38 Leeds: kids and their cartoons. Nov 15 08:07:00 sure, I know about futurama, just not sure of the context :-) Nov 15 08:07:10 erm, k1ds. Nov 15 08:07:34 s3 = amazon storage cloud Nov 15 08:09:10 yeah, been working on an archive app for that (not android based) Nov 15 08:12:40 ya, I'm working on a p2p backup system Nov 15 08:12:57 but I want to handle somone deciding to expand their storage into s3 Nov 15 08:13:09 I'm working on... remembering enough Java to do anything useful Nov 15 08:15:55 i'm working on an irc app :) Nov 15 08:16:15 michaelnovakjr__: he said useful ;-) Nov 15 08:16:34 :) that can be useful Nov 15 08:16:46 heh i'll stick with screened irssi Nov 15 08:17:13 well, enjoy... i'll be using my simple irc client Nov 15 08:17:31 you must have good coverage where you're at :P Nov 15 08:17:39 michaelnovakjr, lets hug Nov 15 08:17:54 Fnord^ what does that have to do with anything? Nov 15 08:18:41 michaelnovakjr, tcp breaks between phone -> shell account, not phone -> irc server Nov 15 08:18:55 so no signoffs Nov 15 08:19:20 uh, and why do you make that assumption? Nov 15 08:19:52 because its truth Nov 15 08:20:02 bad signal coverage will cause that more than anything Nov 15 08:20:04 screen auto detaches when the connection drops Nov 15 08:20:34 well, you must have shitty service then Nov 15 08:20:39 yup Nov 15 08:20:42 heh Nov 15 08:20:46 so i assume you don't use aim? Nov 15 08:20:48 michaelnovakjr, how far are you? Nov 15 08:20:55 dunno, connectbot drops pretty quick Nov 15 08:20:55 nope :P Nov 15 08:20:56 working on the chat view ui Nov 15 08:21:18 even in areas with pretty strong average signals I can get booted off despite an average of 4 bars or so Nov 15 08:21:21 i'm in new york, so the signal is good Nov 15 08:21:24 got anything good going for that michaelnovakjr? Nov 15 08:21:43 yep :) i'll have a test version up this coming week Nov 15 08:21:49 wow Nov 15 08:21:59 michaelnovakjr, is it open source? Nov 15 08:22:02 yes Nov 15 08:22:11 have a name yet? Nov 15 08:22:16 not sure yet Nov 15 08:22:19 michaelnovakjr__IRC Nov 15 08:22:23 haha Nov 15 08:22:37 michaelnovakjr__, well I own ircell.org if you want to PM me Nov 15 08:22:39 Mnirc heh Nov 15 08:22:43 I did ponder a gui/smarts/caching for the g1 Nov 15 08:22:55 and then a screenlike server to stay connected Nov 15 08:22:59 to hide cutoffs Nov 15 08:23:16 much like gtalk does on the g1... Nov 15 08:26:01 i think there's a proxy that does that already Nov 15 08:26:04 actually Nov 15 08:26:51 http://code.google.com/p/dircproxy/ Nov 15 08:26:55 is nice! Nov 15 08:27:48 michaelnovakjr, pm? Nov 15 08:28:17 michaelnovakjr__, http://code.google.com/p/dircproxy/wiki/HowtoConfigureClient :P Nov 15 08:28:50 Fnord^-, typical bouncer :P Nov 15 08:29:08 d03boy, yeh? Nov 15 08:29:14 there are quite a few like that Nov 15 08:29:28 that stay logged in? Nov 15 08:29:34 ya Nov 15 08:29:48 if you disconnect they will set you 'away' Nov 15 08:29:53 change your nickn and stuff Nov 15 08:29:54 aha Nov 15 08:32:36 hmm an x server might be amusing Nov 15 08:33:18 alright i need sleep Nov 15 08:33:34 if michaelnovakjr ever comes back, have him PM me or something. Possibly work together on irc Nov 15 08:34:53 d03boy: hope ya don't mind, been playing with ircell. just the UI part trying to learn layouts. Nov 15 08:35:21 g1er, play with it all you want. Email me your changes, lol Nov 15 08:35:38 still trying to figure out how to do separators http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ircellmodjb2.jpg Nov 15 08:36:41 g1er, if you'd like to help out or whatever, feel free. Nov 15 08:37:05 I would, but really don't know much yet :/ Nov 15 08:37:16 i'm not exactly an expert either Nov 15 08:37:32 i havent had much time to put into it lately Nov 15 08:37:34 been sick and stuff Nov 15 08:38:34 bummer, me too. I'm going to try to add color theme's next :) Nov 15 08:39:11 wee Nov 15 08:39:14 lol Nov 15 08:40:12 is that just 2 horizontal layouts? Nov 15 08:40:20 for servers/chan buttons Nov 15 08:40:51 anyways, im out Nov 15 08:41:04 ya, need work as well :/ Nov 15 10:08:40 ooh new update =D Nov 15 10:15:23 for what? Nov 15 10:43:17 Neverender1: for G1, probably Nov 15 10:45:12 new update? Nov 15 10:51:44 a new firmware update? Nov 15 10:52:34 dnnuo Nov 15 10:52:43 is there an active forum on such things? Nov 15 10:53:44 the tmobile one maybe or anroidcmmunity Nov 15 10:57:31 [15:39:25] ooh new update =D Nov 15 10:57:38 that's what triggered this update discussion Nov 15 11:02:02 Lame question of the moment, and yet... is anyone up for a side project, that is currently beyond me to do, but should be relatively simple for anyone familar with parsing RSS data ? Nov 15 11:02:35 basically, a tv episode "watched" database Nov 15 11:03:20 that grabs tv ep lists from torrent sites (not talking about grabbing the eps themselves, nothing unlawful here folks) Nov 15 11:04:38 via RSS, filters the duplicates, stores the list, then provides a simple method for choosing series, and marking off which eps in the series you've already seen Nov 15 11:05:11 perhaps there are other sources for said data than torrent site RSS feeds, I dunno. Nov 15 11:07:00 if it doesn't happen, by the time I'm able to do it, I will, but that'll be many months from now. Nov 15 11:09:39 languish: there is Nov 15 11:09:56 ... Nov 15 11:10:00 youve seen http://www.pogdesign.co.uk/cat/ ? Nov 15 11:10:04 yes :) Nov 15 11:10:08 they might provide data in nice json on the backend Nov 15 11:10:10 Love it Nov 15 11:10:21 hmm Nov 15 11:10:44 oh maybe not anymore Nov 15 11:10:47 good to know, thanks :) Nov 15 11:10:49 oh? Nov 15 11:10:51 :/ Nov 15 11:11:03 I've come across the dev for it somewhere Nov 15 11:11:12 perhaps the eztv channel, I forget. Nov 15 11:12:04 ewwww public trackers :P Nov 15 11:12:08 lawl Nov 15 11:12:45 i live for x264 ^.^ Nov 15 11:13:07 ^_^ Nov 15 11:13:09 umdk1d3? Nov 15 11:13:23 < umdk1d3> ooh new update =D Nov 15 11:13:39 oh yea my phone updated Nov 15 11:13:48 ah Nov 15 11:13:55 to? Nov 15 11:14:20 doesnt appear to be anything changed gui wise, so prolly just all under-the-hood optimizations Nov 15 11:14:45 oh wait, i dont see "RC" anymore Nov 15 11:14:51 what field did that used to be in? Nov 15 11:15:06 strawberry Nov 15 11:15:23 Build Number Nov 15 11:16:29 o.o my Build Number is very sparse now, just has the number and no other details Nov 15 11:16:53 lulz, deys messin wit u Nov 15 11:17:43 aww no fair, how long have public trackers had 264 stuff? Nov 15 11:17:52 they dont deserve it :P Nov 15 11:19:29 haw Nov 15 11:20:33 at least they arent spreading full TS yet :P Nov 15 11:23:32 any developers? Nov 15 11:44:03 umdk1d3: so what build do you have now? Nov 15 11:45:53 it would be nice if the emulator actually used my thinkpad sensors for accelerometer input :P Nov 15 12:02:50 hmm Nov 15 12:03:19 I wish the android market allowed us to filter out unwanted application types Nov 15 12:04:01 so the religious types won't have to see questionable content apps, and more importantly, I don't have to see the religious apps Nov 15 12:04:23 :) Nov 15 12:05:36 how can i get the currently playing track? Nov 15 12:06:05 app groups in Home app would be awesome.. I know you can filter by name but I really don't remember the name of the app that I'm looking for.. I just know that it was a game and with a blue icon.. Nov 15 12:08:10 tauno: you can create folders on the desktop, that might help organize things better Nov 15 12:11:54 and the folders can be renamed Nov 15 12:19:06 this would be inappropriate in #android-dev so... Nov 15 12:19:08 how would I go about converting a string to a resource pointer? Nov 15 12:19:22 tie the string to a pin, and stick it in to an intern Nov 15 12:19:31 sorry about that :/ Nov 15 12:19:39 lol Nov 15 12:19:40 nono, not your question Nov 15 12:19:44 my answer :) Nov 15 12:19:50 jammr: so you could add it to strings.xml Nov 15 12:19:55 but you couldnt do it at runtime Nov 15 12:20:41 thanks :) Nov 15 13:36:18 afternoon Nov 15 13:36:28 anyone have an idea how i can add a ssl cert to my G1? Nov 15 13:36:45 geting cert erros cos the g1 doesnt have my self cert Nov 15 13:52:42 hmm.. why is Contacts.PhonesColumns.NUMBER_KEY thingie in reverse? The NUMBER returns +12-34-5 and NUMBER_KEY returns 54321+ Nov 15 13:56:11 (now I'm missing a String.reverse() method :P) Nov 15 14:04:37 has anyone been able to render SVG in a WebView? Nov 15 14:05:02 SVG is disabled in the current versions of Android. Nov 15 14:05:11 ouch Nov 15 14:05:19 no wonder I have been having "issues" Nov 15 14:09:42 hi Nov 15 14:10:10 lo Nov 15 14:10:23 any of you have any experience developing games for android? Nov 15 14:11:09 Ok, canvas tag works ok Nov 15 14:11:25 Svg is out, canvas is in Nov 15 14:21:19 how can i save a picture from a picture message? Nov 15 14:21:56 forward it to your gmail account and save it from there Nov 15 14:22:01 thats the only work around afaik Nov 15 14:22:10 that sucks Nov 15 14:22:21 svg is also not supported for app icons? (and also other drawables I guess?) Nov 15 14:23:46 tauno: indeed (I'd even like to say "thankfully", having been involved in the past with a phone that attempted to do that... and failed miserably). Nov 15 14:24:41 jbq, depends.. the N series nokia displays them just fine here ;) Nov 15 14:25:16 "just fine" is usually very relative. They tend to use a lot more CPU to display than plain bitmaps. Nov 15 14:26:31 anyway, the short answer is that Android doesn't have any SVG browser, and therefore SVG isn't supported anywhere. Nov 15 14:27:14 sure, I meant it "looks OK" - app icons can be displayed in many different sizes in the app list there and a svg icons looks damn good compared to the rest of the icons.. but this doesn't matter on Android anyway since app icons are always displayed in the same size :) Nov 15 14:28:10 jbq, from your attitude it seems that we won't see it supported any time soon? :) Nov 15 14:28:39 (I don't need it.. just askig) Nov 15 14:29:03 MacOS has also shown that icons can be displayed at many sizes with bitmaps, so SVG isn't the only answer. Nov 15 14:29:22 Well, it could be supported if it became important enough for someone to write the code. Nov 15 14:29:36 maybe.. I'm not familiar with that.. Nov 15 14:30:00 hint: don't try. SVG makes HTML look easy. Nov 15 14:30:10 :D Nov 15 14:32:30 I'm not kidding. The spec is 719 pages (and it references external specs) so even a non-optimized implementation is a major undertaking. Nov 15 14:33:29 And implementing the spec is really the easy part, because SVG renderers are extremely hard to optimize, especially if you have a constrained CPU and constrained memory. Nov 15 14:36:00 I won't disagree with that :) Nov 15 14:37:59 That being said, one of the hurdles toward enabling SVG in webkit is purely the code size. It grows webkit by a large enough amount that it's a genuine concern: it would have an impact even if nothing was using it. Nov 15 14:39:50 jbq: did you work with the android webkit team alot? Nov 15 14:40:13 umdk1d3: yes, I was part of the browser team for a year (I just moved to another team) Nov 15 14:40:30 I also worked with several members of that team for several years at a previous company. Nov 15 14:40:46 ah cool, mind if i pm? Nov 15 14:40:51 go ahead Nov 15 14:51:17 jbq, to what team did you move? Nov 15 14:51:30 tauno: performance. Nov 15 15:19:58 morning Nov 15 15:48:05 is there an app that i could use the irc client on the G1 phone? Nov 15 15:48:57 Andomic: connectbot i think maybe? Nov 15 15:49:17 ahh k coo Nov 15 15:49:23 how abt ftp client? Nov 15 15:49:57 i dunno Nov 15 15:50:16 Andomic,theres no released irc client atm Nov 15 15:50:22 connectbot is a ssh client Nov 15 15:50:55 workin on one Nov 15 15:51:04 ircell Nov 15 15:52:10 coo d03boy :) Nov 15 15:53:13 im looking forward to it d03boy! Nov 15 15:53:47 Someone on EFnet also has an irc client coming out Nov 15 15:54:23 Should be interesting to see the differences in implimentation Nov 15 15:55:08 u using the GNOME IDE? Nov 15 16:02:49 anyone know if there's an x-windows client code base in Java? Wondering if anyone knows of anything that's been started to be ported for that to Android... or if there's something I could look at with this. I know we have Debian there, and we can run a minimal x-windows server, but the client is what would make it sweet. Then we could do the vnc/rdp anything else that requires a gui. Just need a bluetooth mouse when the bluetooth stack come ou Nov 15 16:02:49 t.. and a way to do VOIP and I'll be happy. Nov 15 16:03:22 heh Nov 15 16:03:27 sounds a bit tedious ;) Nov 15 16:03:34 lol Nov 15 16:04:37 maybe the best thing to do is fork android and make our own os, import the radio stacks, etc, lol then we wouldn't have these issues... lol Nov 15 16:04:47 MystSparks: sure.. have at it Nov 15 16:04:54 MystSparks: its easy. Nov 15 16:04:58 lol, yeah sure... :P Nov 15 16:06:25 If you want something that looks like a desktop linux system... maybe that's what you should fork ;-) Nov 15 16:06:37 The thing that bothers me is all of the comments/talk is on how the root/jailbreak "fix" is a "security fix" . Sure, there issue is, but allowing root access/allowing other updates with th bootloader, is not a security fix... it's just a way to keep people out. Anyway... preaching to the choir Nov 15 16:08:04 hi everyone Nov 15 16:08:13 i'm looking to buy a phone w/ android Nov 15 16:08:16 Is the reason the audio API is so crappy right now because of that "hard work" that T-mobile put in with Google to make sure VOIP wouldn't be possible? Nov 15 16:08:19 is the G1 the only one out Nov 15 16:08:23 MystSparks: well, if someone manages to combine that with a remote exploit, they'd have a remote root exploit, which would be a security disaster. Nov 15 16:08:44 RyeBrye: no, it's just that there wasn't enough time to make it better. Nov 15 16:09:04 Ok Nov 15 16:09:17 mick_home, yes, the G1 is the only Android phone being sold. Nov 15 16:09:19 * RyeBrye puts away his conspiracy theory Nov 15 16:09:39 also, is it an open platform (can i write apps for it easily and flash the thing etc) or is it semi open where there is drm on the hw etc Nov 15 16:09:44 mick_home, some people have loaded android on to other devices, though some functionality is limited. Nov 15 16:10:19 anyone get android on a Neo FreeRunner> Nov 15 16:10:20 ? Nov 15 16:10:21 RyeBrye: now, if Android had audio APIs good enough to do voip but T-Mobile didn't want that, the license on the source code wouldn't prevent them from removing the functionality and shipping phones like that. But that's not the case here. Nov 15 16:10:36 jbq - ok, that makes sense Nov 15 16:10:41 ok, one quick question - I haven't looked at the browser code much - but how hard is it for others to add in some additional functionality to the browser? Something like a "find on page" button? Nov 15 16:11:06 mick_home, android is an open source OS. The G1 phone, is a proprietary piece of hardware, and has some proprietary drivers in it's implimentation of the android OS. There is also closed source software on the G1. Nov 15 16:11:24 *its Nov 15 16:11:25 :-( Nov 15 16:11:38 RyeBrye: for this specific feature, it's very easy: do nothing until the next major release ;-) Nov 15 16:11:52 mick_home, however you CAN develop apps for the G1 rather easily. Nov 15 16:11:56 can i easily compile apps for it? Nov 15 16:12:01 yes Nov 15 16:12:02 k Nov 15 16:12:03 jbq - THAT I can handle :) Nov 15 16:12:29 mick_home, code.google.com/android Nov 15 16:12:30 i'm torn between openmoko and android :-( Nov 15 16:12:39 languish: been there, seen it Nov 15 16:12:56 it was supposed to be in 1.0, so you'll probably find traces of it in the source code if you look closely enough, but we had to pull it at the last moment because of some nasty bugs that we didn't manage to resolve in time. Nov 15 16:13:06 jbq, well, you'd have the remote root expoit risk on every pc then. Nov 15 16:13:12 every linux pc Nov 15 16:13:17 mick_home, if you're developing for yourself, openmoko. If you're developing to share with the world, or earn some $, android. Nov 15 16:13:19 i just wanted to know, do i have actual access to the OS -- like, can i add users, ssh into it etc Nov 15 16:13:23 jbq - fair enough Nov 15 16:13:56 ok, one final question... yesterday in my email I got an extremely long and complicated password as part of a "password reset" - but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to select normal text to copy and paste it- is there a way to select arbitrary text to copy and paste? Nov 15 16:13:58 mich, android yes. The phone.. only if it's jailbroken. Nov 15 16:14:21 MystSparks: I'm not an expert in desktop linux systems, but if that's the case maybe it should be fixed. That being said, it's a lot less of an issue on a desktop linux (or mac, or windows) system, because they're still using security models where any app can mess up any other app's data. Nov 15 16:14:55 mich, people who currently have "hacked" G1's, have installed full linux implimentation on them, and even have root in Android. Nov 15 16:15:02 RyeBrye: see my answer about "find in page" (the two functions are actually related). Nov 15 16:15:03 languish: don't we already have an iphone? i thought the whole point was to have an "open platform" -- or did t-mobile manage to f- that up? Nov 15 16:15:27 mich, the platform is open, the G1 is not the platform, it's just one device by one provider. Nov 15 16:15:41 you can install android onto open source hardware, and have full control Nov 15 16:15:41 jbq - cool. So selecting normal text would also apply to the email app? (not just the browser?) Nov 15 16:15:52 the G1 just isn't open source hardware. Nov 15 16:15:58 Gmail for sure, I'm not sure about the Email app. Nov 15 16:16:04 ok, i don't want to "hack" the damn thing (I do enough security research in my full time job) -- i just want to have control over something that i buy (sounds crazy i know) ) Nov 15 16:16:04 cool Nov 15 16:16:28 * RyeBrye patiently waits for the next release... and anxiously waits for a development branch of the android sources to become available :) Nov 15 16:16:31 languish: yes, i know Nov 15 16:16:55 though, people should be given root - is my point Nov 15 16:17:01 RyeBrye: we're working on both of those aspects. thanks for being patient. Nov 15 16:17:12 mich, seeing as how people can get root anyway, I agree with you. Nov 15 16:17:21 jbq you on the Android tdevelopment team? Nov 15 16:18:02 MystSparks: I contributed to the initial open-source version, yes. At this point anyone can be on "the team" and contribute. Nov 15 16:18:21 mich, just note, having root, isn't the same as having open source drivers or direct hardware access to components like say.. the GSM DSP, or the bootloader. Nov 15 16:18:40 ok, good point Nov 15 16:18:41 jbq, well, you probably hear a lot from everyone about the negative things, but just wanted to take a moment as well, and say "good job" and thanks, and it's a great start. THanks for the contributions. Nov 15 16:19:05 ok... I lied... there is ONE more question - my outbound SMS messages weren's going out properly so I had to call T-mobile. (they have a reference number you can mention to them referenced in their online support stuff) - she claimed she was pushing down 2 settings files to me via SMS to fix it Nov 15 16:19:11 languish: are you on the channel from a G1? Nov 15 16:19:21 mick_home: it'd be great for android to allow deeper access without compromising the security of the platform, and especially without compromising the mechanisms that protect certain kinds of content. Think DRM and DMCA. Nov 15 16:19:28 mick_home, not at this moment, but I have been. Nov 15 16:19:39 but... from all I can tell - they were just normal SMS messages? Is it likely that the error was in their network, but they were just sending me messages for testing? Nov 15 16:19:52 i ask, since my name is "mick" not "mich" -- i just figured that it was a crappy resolution :) Nov 15 16:19:53 I had adb logcat turned on and didn't see anything except for it receiving an SMS Nov 15 16:19:54 MystSparks: thanks :) Nov 15 16:19:58 anyone doing game development on android? Nov 15 16:20:09 mick, it's just my crappy typing :) Nov 15 16:20:14 jbq: "protect"? Nov 15 16:20:16 Gain - there are a few apps in the market, but nothing revolutionary Nov 15 16:20:18 RyeBrye: sorry, I don't know, I'm not familiar with the SMS side of things. Nov 15 16:20:23 :D Nov 15 16:20:45 RyeBrye well, I am interested in doing game development but not sure where to start Nov 15 16:21:08 Gain - you can start by learning the sound of one hand clapping Nov 15 16:21:32 i used to work for a company that does a Linu based STB -- the one thing that I learned from that is that DRM is a lot crappier (and hurts more users) than most people know Nov 15 16:21:36 Linux* Nov 15 16:21:57 jbq - thanks for all the info. Good work on the browser - btw - it's very nice Nov 15 16:22:03 RyeBrye, WM suffers from the network SMS' Nov 15 16:22:11 doesnt really handle them correct either Nov 15 16:22:30 Impossible - yeah, so it's likely the network, right? So they say "we're pushing down setting" are they really pushing down anything? Nov 15 16:22:33 eh, looking at the platform - it seems to be very nice Nov 15 16:22:43 This hole Android experience reminds me of the days when I could program the old Apple II's or my first real pc,. the IBM PS/1 2011-C34 :) Back then, they had manuals that actually said how everything worked... even that "sysRq" key on the keyboard :P Nov 15 16:22:45 the SDK is awesome Nov 15 16:22:48 hole* - whole Nov 15 16:22:51 i think i might just get both Nov 15 16:22:59 freerunner and a G1 Nov 15 16:23:23 freerunner has no keyboard, right? no way to get dat into the frerunner yet, right? Nov 15 16:23:23 mick_home: I totally agree with you. DRM is annoying for users *and* for platform engineers. Nov 15 16:23:24 You have voice recognition, face recognition, and GPS built in... You could so easily make a terminator on this platform! Nov 15 16:23:25 RyeBrye I already know that sound :P Nov 15 16:23:27 anyone know how much a G1 is? Nov 15 16:23:48 mick_home - $400 USD or as low as $178 or something with a 2-year contract Nov 15 16:24:34 Oh wait... face detection, not face recognition. The terminator you built on Android might not behave the way you want :) Nov 15 16:24:39 so price is about the same Nov 15 16:25:12 jbq: ya, those damn studios will not budge w/ that crap though (in the case of the STB) Nov 15 16:25:40 MystSparks: correct. Android will have support for soft keyboards in a future release (scheduled for Q1 next year). One of the hurdles on the freerunner is that it doesn't have enough hardware buttons (so they'll also have to be done in software, and that's not on the roadmap as far as I know). Nov 15 16:25:58 k Nov 15 16:26:33 MystSparks: another hurdle with the freerunner is that its CPU isn't compatible with the Android code "as is". I know that some people are working on it. Nov 15 16:26:46 hmm, interesting Nov 15 16:26:48 yeah, it's ARM3 instead of 4 Nov 15 16:27:11 actually 4T instead of 5, so it's not as bad, but that's the idea :) Nov 15 16:27:17 whoops Nov 15 16:28:32 I think Android technically requires 5TE (not just plain 5), but since all ARMv5 cores seem to be 5TE (or better) that's not that relevant. Nov 15 16:29:31 is the G1 unlockable yet? Us Canadians don't have a T-mobile option :( Nov 15 16:30:03 Gain, yes.. tmo will unlock it if you say the right words, and there's a slightly pricey unlocking service Nov 15 16:30:17 how much will the total cost be Nov 15 16:30:18 just for the phone Nov 15 16:30:24 $400+tax Nov 15 16:30:42 wtf Nov 15 16:30:45 wow Nov 15 16:30:49 that's without a contract Nov 15 16:30:51 but the emulator is good enough I suppose? Nov 15 16:30:53 unsubsidized Nov 15 16:31:23 tmo customers and new customer can get it for $179 with a 2 year contract Nov 15 16:32:09 or for $299 if they're a customer but recently upgraded a handset already Nov 15 16:32:42 I am in canada Nov 15 16:32:46 I cannot because a new customer Nov 15 16:32:57 There is on t-mobile service up here and I am not going to pay roaming charges for 2 years haha Nov 15 16:33:09 google devs have said they did a lot of their development on the emulator Nov 15 16:33:28 and quite a few devs have put out apps without having a G1 Nov 15 16:34:04 you can use the G1 on other GSM networks if you get it unsubsidized, but you may not get 3g Nov 15 16:34:40 i'll ask my friend Nov 15 16:34:46 he worked on the calendar Nov 15 16:35:13 indeed, a lot of development can be done on the emulator (but some aspects are better done on-device, e.g. power management, connectivity management, performance, OpenGL...) Nov 15 16:37:08 RyeBrye, i think the settings are being pushed down... but the phone doesnt invoke the settings Nov 15 16:40:03 my main questions are: 1) does it have wifi 2) how is the battery life 3) can i keep my phone # Nov 15 16:40:36 i don't understand people that wonder about battery life on a hpone Nov 15 16:40:42 just plug it in when you go home Nov 15 16:41:10 mick_home: yes for wifi. battery life depends on many factors, it can go from a few hours to a week. phone#: yes, T-Mobile supports number portability. Nov 15 16:42:20 cool Nov 15 16:43:01 FWIW, I don't think that wifi supports WPA-enterprise (or whatever it's called). WEP and regular WPA work. Nov 15 16:43:19 jbq: yes, wpa enterprise doesnt work Nov 15 16:43:32 does anybody know if this will be updated soon? Nov 15 16:44:36 i've got a developer question, does anybody know if i can get a notification when wlan is connected? Nov 15 16:44:45 or read if its connected? Nov 15 16:45:06 yes, it's possible. You can both query and get notifications. Nov 15 16:45:17 lemme find the relevant class for you. Nov 15 16:45:52 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/net/ConnectivityManager.html Nov 15 16:46:22 I have some code in there that uses it: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/providers/DownloadProvider.git;a=summary Nov 15 16:48:51 all right, I'm gonna get off IRC and enjoy a great california week-end... Nov 15 16:50:44 ewedrfg\ Nov 15 16:51:22 he must have a cat too Nov 15 16:55:53 yeesh, tmo's at it again with the spotty 3g service Nov 15 17:12:42 spotty? that a new feature? w00t Nov 15 17:12:58 Buy now and get Spotty 3G half price! Nov 15 17:18:32 protip: if you are going to try Mario Simulator in the office, then people WILL laugh at you.. Nov 15 17:22:12 Does anybody know how i can do this grey notifications? how are they called in the android api? Nov 15 17:29:05 hey Nov 15 17:29:16 anyone want to develop app with me? pm Nov 15 17:41:10 ndmipodtouch, your name is ipod touch Nov 15 17:41:24 haha its just my alias Nov 15 17:41:31 my company is NDMApple Nov 15 17:41:35 www.ndmapple.com Nov 15 17:41:35 hes a spy! Nov 15 17:41:37 kill him! Nov 15 17:41:49 i'm going to crucifix him Nov 15 17:42:03 i was thinking more of /kill Nov 15 17:42:03 lol Nov 15 17:42:05 jk Nov 15 17:42:27 hmm /crucifix Nov 15 17:46:31 yawn Nov 15 17:47:23 yay i just wrote a nice python script that scraped all hdtv deals on blackfriday and made a nice google spreadsheet that can be sorted 8 ways from sunday ^.^ Nov 15 17:47:39 wow. you are... a loser Nov 15 17:47:44 michaelnovakjr, how's that irc stuff going? Nov 15 17:48:03 hey im trying to find the best deal ;) prolly gonna end up outside bestbuy tho Nov 15 17:48:14 plasma? Nov 15 17:48:21 nah lcd Nov 15 17:48:30 whats wrong with plazzzma Nov 15 17:48:33 last year we were in line for 26 hours :) Nov 15 17:48:37 irc is coming along nice Nov 15 17:49:34 I'm suprised that no one has made an irc client yet.. I mean there are a bunch of java API's available that handle the hard stuff.. just a simple UI to implement around that and you're done Nov 15 17:49:50 i'd have one finished by now if I spent some time on the layout Nov 15 17:49:53 i'm writing one Nov 15 17:49:55 tauno, hook me up with a layout Nov 15 17:49:58 how did you get on with finding a irc client michaelnovakjr? Nov 15 17:50:00 can anyone recommend a place to buy a g1 phone once i get to new york? Nov 15 17:50:11 umdk1d3: best deal i ever saw on an hdtv is the one i got. $4500 (at the time) 56" samsung dlp for $2500 because someone bought it for chrismas, called to ask if the bezel could be sliced off to fit the exactly-56-inch hole in the wall, then returned it unopened. tweeter had to sell it as a 'floor model' cuz a manager screwed up and set it up on display that morning. (doh) Nov 15 17:50:18 snadge: a tmobile store Nov 15 17:50:19 snadge, the tmobile store Nov 15 17:50:27 im travelling around a bit.. so getting one via ebay or post is not really an option Nov 15 17:50:34 will it be unlocked? Nov 15 17:50:38 no Nov 15 17:50:44 im looking to purchase one outright and use it in another country Nov 15 17:51:23 not a good idea to get one in the us then Nov 15 17:52:13 snadge, are you already a tmo customer? Nov 15 17:52:18 snadge: yah thats gonna be a pita. might be able to do it at tmob for full price but be -sure- they unlock it. (and i'm pretty sure its against their rules, so you might have to offer some incentive) Nov 15 17:52:41 ive heard if you show them you are traveling out of the country they will unlock it for you Nov 15 17:52:46 especially military Nov 15 17:52:56 id talk to them see what tehy can do Nov 15 17:52:58 right, that was me, but only if you are a tmob-usa customer (and have been for a while) Nov 15 17:53:02 hi, does anybody know by any chance if t-mobile lets us use the dataplan for g1 for mobile broadband connection from a laptop? Nov 15 17:53:04 it just bypasses the 90 days Nov 15 17:53:12 well i have an australian passport and documentation which supports the fact that im returning to australia Nov 15 17:53:17 interchangeably or at the same time? Nov 15 17:53:18 no MrKeuner Nov 15 17:53:32 i tried to get one from tmobile in the uk.. and they were flipping useless Nov 15 17:53:32 DarkriftX: you need a new sim for that? Nov 15 17:53:48 snadge, go to a tmo store and try it Nov 15 17:53:54 they might work with you (might charge more though) Nov 15 17:54:01 are you a tmo custoemr already? Nov 15 17:54:31 snadge, they wont sell you one unless its on a contract Nov 15 17:54:47 they have to credit check you...which means being in the UK for at least 3 months =/ Nov 15 17:55:47 i can get one from hong kong for about $950 AU Nov 15 17:55:58 thats via ebay.. unlocked Nov 15 17:56:52 tough call Nov 15 17:57:25 that's expensive Nov 15 17:57:29 yeah that means i have to wait till i get back to australia to get it Nov 15 17:57:59 i just thought maybe i could offload some cash to an american who has one for sale.. to save me the trouble Nov 15 17:58:04 and so i can use it on my holiday Nov 15 17:58:32 have you used one yet? Nov 15 17:59:00 not yet no Nov 15 17:59:25 i just refuse to use a winmo phone.. my friend has one, htc tytnii Nov 15 17:59:43 i had a very brief play with a demo model at a UK tmobile store Nov 15 17:59:46 ttuttle Nov 15 17:59:50 where are you Nov 15 17:59:58 I just thought of the BEST APP EVER Nov 15 17:59:58 ttuttle get this Nov 15 17:59:58 * ttuttle gets ready to get. Nov 15 17:59:58 a period tracker Nov 15 18:00:10 AND NOW LOOK Nov 15 18:00:13 someone did it :| Nov 15 18:00:36 gtg Nov 15 18:00:38 home time Nov 15 18:00:41 languish, I feel your pain (hint @ clickingtodabeat (or whatever it's called) Nov 15 18:00:52 tauno not that type of period. Nov 15 18:00:55 the other type Nov 15 18:00:58 :D Nov 15 18:00:59 I know.. Nov 15 18:01:08 ok :) Nov 15 18:01:17 it's just that my idea was also made by someone else :P Nov 15 18:01:29 oh.. I'm just lolling over it Nov 15 18:01:33 :) Nov 15 18:01:50 Tom, if you're around, good show man, jolly good show! Nov 15 18:03:54 i shall try my luck bribing a tmobile employee with greenbacks.. everything in the USA has a price does it not? :P Nov 15 18:03:57 I can't use the G1 here anymore.. everybody wants to be Mario and people are running around and jumping..:/ Nov 15 18:04:17 the people i spoke to from the UK store were rather unhelpful.. hehe Nov 15 18:04:17 snadge, get one locked and then buy an unlock code from the net? Nov 15 18:05:13 whats the cheapest option for us t-mobile.. is there an outright? or what per month.. and when could i expect to bail from the contract Nov 15 18:05:33 lol languish Nov 15 18:05:44 they have those for all mobile platforms Nov 15 18:05:46 i'd look it up on the website.. except im on the queen mary 2 in southamptn UK.. on the way to new york Nov 15 18:05:52 helps guys everywhere know when to take business trips Nov 15 18:06:19 and using 3g mobile internet.. and it is very slow and will probably go out of range soon, and then internet is 75 cents per minute :P Nov 15 18:08:18 Does the RADAR intent use WGS84? anyone know? Nov 15 18:09:17 I'm going to try out this thing to do geocaching, so I'm writing a VERY simple frontend to the RADAR intent that lets me input the lat and long and then launch the intent - but just making sure that the data in the GPX files will be the same format as the RADAR is expecting... I don't see it documented anywhere in the RADAR source so I figured I'd ask Nov 15 18:10:04 the t-mobile site is taking ages to load :( Nov 15 18:11:09 languish: Told ya someone would do it :P Nov 15 18:12:52 ttuttle :) Nov 15 18:13:09 now if only someone would do a good polyhedral die rolling app :/ Nov 15 18:16:00 hi guys do you get disconnected from the im app all the time? Nov 15 18:17:21 no because I dont have a phone Nov 15 18:18:07 floppyears, not frequently no Nov 15 18:18:07 floppyears, no, I don't use it :) Nov 15 18:18:27 which IM service were you using? Nov 15 18:18:33 I mostly use the gchat Nov 15 18:18:44 I hear people have problems with aim Nov 15 18:19:01 d03boy: hopelly you can get one in the future Nov 15 18:19:29 still hasnt loaded :/ Nov 15 18:19:33 I am using aim, msn, and yahoo Nov 15 18:19:54 the only one that is always connected is the gmail Nov 15 18:20:12 can someone with a real internet connection do me a favour and check what the cheapest plan on tmobile costs.. and what the charges are if you bail on the contract, or want to pay it out Nov 15 18:20:26 languish: is that an app in the market app? Nov 15 18:20:50 languish: Ooh... I could do that. Nov 15 18:20:55 floppyears, is what the gchat? no.. it's part of the IM app that comes with a G1 Nov 15 18:20:57 snadge: i believe its been done before online, it comes to something like $500 total Nov 15 18:21:11 because gchat uses a bouncer/proxy Nov 15 18:21:21 ttuttle, that would be awesome.. I'm hoping for one better than the app that's on the iphone, lol.. Nov 15 18:21:37 looks like the tmob ET fee is $200 Nov 15 18:22:20 languish: are you referring to gtalk? Nov 15 18:22:35 ahh yes Nov 15 18:22:35 lol Nov 15 18:22:50 sorry, everyone I know refers to it as gchat for some reason and it's stuck in my head Nov 15 18:24:03 cool Nov 15 18:24:34 np Nov 15 18:27:17 where's romainguy when you need him.. Nov 15 18:27:43 I guess he has a life also.. and that's sad :P Nov 15 18:33:51 romainguy - you around? Nov 15 18:35:51 maybe someone else knows -> I'm using an AlertDialog to display an alert.. but I want the alert message to include links.. I guess it's not possible without some crude hacks? Nov 15 18:41:52 tauno, maybe extend the class or something? Nov 15 18:42:41 tauno: setView() and have your own textview with autolinking? Nov 15 18:45:05 setView replaces everything (the title and the icon and the buttons) and then the AlertDialog contains *only* my textview :( Nov 15 18:45:58 I'll try with addContentView(..) but I don't hope that I get somewhere that easily :( Nov 15 18:48:34 Is there an easy way to just throw an intent out to the map program and have it show a pinpoint for a latitue and longitude? Nov 15 19:04:43 another thought was that I just find the ThextView that the Dialog uses and set it to autolink.. but AlertDialog uses com.android.internal.R.id.message for the TextView id.. and that's not available in the public SDK.. Nov 15 19:05:02 Can I iterate over all the views that a window has? Nov 15 19:10:20 it'd be really handy if the simulator didn't have multiple unrelated clocks :( Nov 15 19:10:35 Disconnect: what do you mean? Nov 15 19:10:41 (and it's an emulator, not a simulator) Nov 15 19:11:23 title bar clock says 3:56pm.. Date() returns 7:11pm. Nov 15 19:11:37 bah Nov 15 19:11:56 local host time, fyi, is 2:11. Nov 15 19:11:58 don't use the emulator :p Nov 15 19:12:11 so there might be a timezone error in there (which is fine) but .. ugh. Nov 15 19:12:11 (the emulator has known problems with time :) Nov 15 19:15:09 yah i noticed that :) Nov 15 19:25:37 how far is android file transfers over bluetooth? Nov 15 19:35:45 depends on how soon someone in the community decides to write/port an obex fileserver Nov 15 19:36:06 we need a wmine (wine mobile is not an emulator) for android Nov 15 19:36:15 to run wm stuff Nov 15 19:36:17 ..yucky Nov 15 19:36:58 i semi agree, but there are some things for wm that might be useful Nov 15 19:37:13 meh Nov 15 19:37:21 better then putting wm on it :S Nov 15 19:37:48 i know it wont happen, wine has taken years to get this far Nov 15 19:38:14 Lost of .NET is already cloned in the mono project, actually. Not sure if any of the wine code is going to be that useful. Nov 15 19:39:21 romainguy__ still there ? Nov 15 19:43:24 I think I did the ugliest hack ever but I managed to get the message in AlerDialog to be linkified :P Nov 15 19:43:29 wow.. niyice.. hehe Nov 15 19:44:02 amazed @ how many ppl here.. encouraging.. in lite of my very problimatic 1st 2 wks with g1 in hand lol Nov 15 19:44:13 but now I need to do it.. nicer.. there has to be a way I guess :/ Nov 15 19:44:36 * tech9iner has already had the 1st brand new g1 replacement due its penchant to suddenly.. mid call.. reset of its own accord.. Nov 15 19:45:15 so is there a nice full android system backup app or utility mates please?.. before i swap out phones ? Nov 15 19:48:46 how can I go from a R.string.blah value to a String object containing the value of blah? Nov 15 19:48:57 ../ignore DarkRift*!*@* Nov 15 19:49:01 solves all WM issues Nov 15 19:49:23 Ramblurr, getString() Nov 15 19:50:17 KNY thanks Nov 15 19:50:34 no problem Nov 15 19:50:46 * tech9iner hasnt noted backups on market yet.. Nov 15 19:51:25 What's the largest capacity SD card available that will work w/ the G1? Nov 15 19:53:09 savid: 16GB has been confirmed to work fine Nov 15 19:53:34 wow, nice :) Nov 15 19:56:45 savid, note that you can't install apps to the sd card.. (ok you can with a rooted phone but..) Nov 15 20:03:11 there's lots of things lacking in the market... but it takes time Nov 15 20:03:32 if people got $ it wouldnt take time Nov 15 20:03:46 money has nothing to do with it really Nov 15 20:03:53 it's a new platform to develop on Nov 15 20:04:03 so it takes time for the people to scope it out, do what they want. Nov 15 20:04:06 it's nothing overniht Nov 15 20:04:29 the api has been out for over a year Nov 15 20:04:35 if i recall correctly Nov 15 20:04:46 doesn't matter really, the problem is the phone hasn't Nov 15 20:04:54 why develop something that won't be bought? Nov 15 20:05:11 and quite frankly there's alot of immature apps on the Market, that developers are just scoping out everything Nov 15 20:05:32 stupid responses in the market only makes developers want to develop more... (I swear, it's like a bunch of kids in the market) Nov 15 20:07:36 there are not that many mature apps because who want's to invest $$$ in developing for a product that noone uses yet? (ok, the G1 is now out.. but the critical usercount is still not reached) Nov 15 20:08:12 I think things will change a lot when we release support for commercial apps on Market Nov 15 20:08:20 I'm sure there are apps just waiting for this Nov 15 20:09:07 romainguy__, correct, most are setting up a registration function in their app and doing a 'trial' scheme Nov 15 20:09:10 which isn't a bad thing Nov 15 20:11:48 Disconnect, oh I was so punished with that answer, however I was asking if there is already a project and if it was close to the aim Nov 15 20:12:05 ...huh? Nov 15 20:12:11 nevermind Nov 15 20:12:38 there's no bt in the sdk and none in the emulator, so your only legit option is to beg someone with an engineering device to write/test it. Nov 15 20:13:09 romainguy__ there you are.. you know anything about dialogs? :/ Nov 15 20:13:23 Disconnect, so, it's far for now Nov 15 20:13:27 thanks Nov 15 20:14:17 unless someone in goog is close. but i think they're working on bigger things. (and with native code you can just light up any of the existing linux obex apps. its unsupported but it works.) Nov 15 20:16:19 Disconnect, or rooted device Nov 15 20:17:28 thats hardly portable. (then again, so is native code and according to the goog using native code is the end of the world :) ..) Nov 15 20:19:49 Disconnect: not the end of the world Nov 15 20:19:58 but we're trying to make it as painless as possible Nov 15 20:20:44 Found two options -> first is to use setView() on the Dialog and then use a LinearLayout(ImageView, TextView) in it - upside is that it's "clean". Downside is that all the look of other dialogs is lost (eg text size/color, padding etc..). The second option is the funny one.. get the Window from the Dialog, from there get the DecorView and then iterate over all its children and their children and their children.. till you find a TextView that h Nov 15 20:21:09 what are you trying to do? Nov 15 20:21:11 if you insert "right now" its pretty much been the company line :) "omg don't do that it won't be portable to .. um.. one day there will be devices and this won't work" :) Nov 15 20:21:24 I hope there is a 3rd option that I'm missing.. like AlertDialog.getTextView :P Nov 15 20:21:44 * Disconnect is hating the java date stuff. is the android calendar stuff equiv (and better)? Nov 15 20:21:46 romainguy_ linkify the message in an AlertDialog Nov 15 20:21:56 Disconnect: you can't really blame us for trying to not have tons of apps on Market that will suddenly break/suck when new devices come out Nov 15 20:22:01 romainguy__: go outside and enjoy the day Nov 15 20:22:07 tauno: you cannot do that :) Nov 15 20:22:13 SanMehat: as soon as lunch is ready :)) Nov 15 20:22:34 romainguy__ I just found 2 ways of doing it :P Nov 15 20:22:46 but they are not "smooth" :P Nov 15 20:23:12 SanMehat, romainguy__ morning Nov 15 20:23:15 then don't do it :) Nov 15 20:23:17 ttuttle: yo Nov 15 20:23:29 romainguy__ that also not an option :) Nov 15 20:23:30 romainguy_: is the plan to do some sort of hybrid, ala osx universal? (guess the installer would have to discard the extra bins) Nov 15 20:23:47 probably Nov 15 20:23:49 SanMehat: how's it going? Nov 15 20:23:59 the problem is then download times and temporary storage space, etc. Nov 15 20:24:07 you'll still have the same problem tho - as new arch's show up, new bins will have to be built.. Nov 15 20:24:15 we'll have the same issue for apps with tons of bitmaps that need to support different resolutions Nov 15 20:24:25 ttuttle: good man good Nov 15 20:24:35 Disconnect: but at least there would be a way to distribute the app... Nov 15 20:24:41 I guess I'm going the "iterate over everything in the decorView" route then :/ Nov 15 20:24:43 sounds ugly. and there's a security mess there too - g1 can't afford the space it takes to unpack the app 3-4 times, then remove extras. Nov 15 20:25:32 Disconnect: and that's why we have to solve this issue correctly Nov 15 20:25:39 tauno: or don't linkify... Nov 15 20:26:02 tauno: the more you talk about your app, the more it scares me :)) Nov 15 20:26:21 romainguy_: or just go about it in the osx way - get the core stuff working now, then expand capabilities later. Nov 15 20:26:25 SanMehat: so i got myself an a2dp headset ;-) Nov 15 20:26:34 since like it or not, its out in the wild now :) Nov 15 20:27:10 Disconnect: OS X didn't have quite the same constraints as we do Nov 15 20:27:18 romainguy__ well.. the more I talk about it.. the more it scares me too :P (and the more I talk about it, the more I see that I don't know anything about android :/ ) Nov 15 20:27:20 but whatever, apparently you know what to do and how to do it :) Nov 15 20:28:23 * Disconnect isn't the one constantly saying he stepped in dog poop on purpose for some greater good that nobody else could possibly understand. :) Nov 15 20:41:57 i was using an unlocked g1, but after the latest firmware update, now it can't get any signal from the operator. Nov 15 20:42:50 i also have a friend that has the same unlocked phone & update, but he can still use his line. Nov 15 20:42:58 how can it be possible? any ideas? Nov 15 20:44:46 strange that I haven't got any updates at all. Build number: kila_uk-user 1.0 TC5-RC8 <- that's the right thing or is there some other version string somewhere? Nov 15 20:45:36 mine was rc29 Nov 15 20:46:04 ..then rc8 can't be right :/ Nov 15 20:46:19 nope, i think it's the right version string Nov 15 20:46:37 you looked from settings -> phone info (or sth like that), right? Nov 15 20:46:41 yes Nov 15 20:46:56 so, it's the right version Nov 15 20:47:34 when did you buy it? Nov 15 20:48:33 something like a week ago maybe Nov 15 20:48:55 are you sure it's rc8? maybe it's rc28 =) Nov 15 20:48:56 a few days over a week ago Nov 15 20:49:11 will check Nov 15 20:49:28 yes, TC5-RC8 Nov 15 20:49:29 :) Nov 15 20:50:01 strange, i bought mine about 2 weeks ago (from bestbuy, CA). and it was rc29 =) Nov 15 20:50:26 mine is from UK - maybe they have a different versioning thing there Nov 15 20:50:37 maybe.. Nov 15 20:52:23 tauno, rc8 is UK Nov 15 20:52:26 rc28 is US Nov 15 20:52:35 the TC5 = UK, TC4 = US Nov 15 20:52:46 so the RC's will not match Nov 15 20:53:13 and RC8 is latest for UK? Nov 15 20:53:18 yes Nov 15 20:53:22 k Nov 15 20:53:23 as of 2 days ago anyways Nov 15 20:53:57 hm..it hasn't asked me if I wanted to update.. so the RC8 should be there from the beginning (from >week ago) Nov 15 20:54:45 RADAR for geocaching = pretty sweet Nov 15 20:55:10 tauno: maybe you can check if you're vulnerable to that famous jailbreak thing ;P Nov 15 20:55:13 The hardware compass helps keep the orientation correct a lot better than GPS devices that don't have built-in compasses Nov 15 20:55:19 he isnt Nov 15 20:55:25 rc8 fixed it Nov 15 20:55:29 so does rc30 Nov 15 20:55:42 android-dls.com/wiki Nov 15 20:55:44 go read a bit Nov 15 20:56:01 DarkriftX: yeap, but just make him to believe it =) Nov 15 20:57:25 PINguAR_, it does not work like that :P Nov 15 20:58:23 tauno: so just be happy to have the latest firmware and also can use your android. :P Nov 15 20:58:37 it will be hacked soon Nov 15 20:58:40 tauno: because i have the latest firmware and can't use my phone anymore. ahh.. Nov 15 20:58:45 another "jailbreak" will come Nov 15 20:59:19 lol Nov 15 20:59:34 but when a phone start to get no signal anyway? Nov 15 20:59:53 anyone use phonestatelistener? Nov 15 20:59:53 i don't know if its android related, or just about HTC.. Nov 15 21:00:13 PINguAR_ what if you try to manually select the network? Nov 15 21:00:40 tauno: it says "no service available" Nov 15 21:01:32 tauno: but i tried it with 3 diff. operators.. it keep saying the same. no signal bars at all. Nov 15 21:07:22 blau: i have Nov 15 21:07:34 blau: whats your question? Nov 15 21:10:11 jasta: is that the only way to find out when you receive a phone call? Nov 15 21:11:51 what else did you have in mind? a broadcast intent? Nov 15 21:12:06 yeah Nov 15 21:12:10 thats what i was hoping for Nov 15 21:12:44 otherwise i always have to have a service running to monitor Nov 15 21:12:47 there's ACTION_NEW_OUTGOING_CALL Nov 15 21:12:50 and one for incoming calls too Nov 15 21:13:15 i guess i missed that? Nov 15 21:13:15 i saw outgoing Nov 15 21:13:51 hmm, im not seeing it either Nov 15 21:13:59 interesting Nov 15 21:14:17 so is there a nice full android system backup app or utility mates please?.. before i swap out phones ? Nov 15 21:14:38 let's see what the phone all does... Nov 15 21:14:39 or swap out g1's to be clear as mudd Nov 15 21:14:43 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/d97a759a3708cbe3 Nov 15 21:14:59 tech9iner: backing up your data isn't secure enough cuz you can't be trusted with it. Nov 15 21:15:00 sorry. Nov 15 21:15:14 wtf? Nov 15 21:15:22 cute Nov 15 21:15:26 suppose i do have a multithreaded chat application , what i do exactly needs to implement it in android , i'm already using the sdk in eclipse Nov 15 21:16:52 also.. curious is there an android version as it were of lifehacker website? Nov 15 21:17:42 blau: interesting, looks like a stupid inconsistency Nov 15 21:17:46 seeking work arounds of all the shocking restrictions on g1's/android.. ie downloading anything via 3g outside a tiny approved list of file types etc.. Nov 15 21:18:09 "for security purposes", and then here i just posted a bug about how you can intercept incoming calls with PhoneStateListener without requesting any permissions at all Nov 15 21:18:35 i was utterly shocked 1st time was away from wifi on laptop & thot.. wait.. ive got microsd card in me new g1.. ill just download it & move it over to offline laptop.. NOT! Nov 15 21:18:41 lol Nov 15 21:19:29 ? http://www.handango.com/catalog/ProductDetails.jsp?storeId=2218&deviceId=2073&platformId=80&productId=237198&merch=recommendation_device_slider1&ad=rds1_237198 - $9.99 for THAT ? Nov 15 21:19:30 likewise.. wtf?.. why if using browser in 'classic' mode to access gmail accts.. wtf!? cant one choose to upload or attach files?.. Nov 15 21:23:26 somehow vibration locks on in my app wtf Nov 15 21:26:19 maybe cause the receiver dies before the vibration is done... hmm Nov 15 21:26:46 tech: hmm, ill look into that Nov 15 21:28:37 nevermind looks like malformed thing maybe Nov 15 21:34:11 sweet just made a quick programmer to allow you set to set seperate vibration params for sms'ing Nov 15 21:35:43 sweet Nov 15 21:36:01 whats the point of running debian on a g1, and don't say because you can. Nov 15 21:36:14 more software? Nov 15 21:36:17 prolly prebuilt apps Nov 15 21:36:25 want an irc app? terminal + irssi :) Nov 15 21:37:36 when it is installed how do you switch between android and debian? Nov 15 21:41:42 disconnect: wanna use my program? Nov 15 21:41:48 let me know if theres any issues? Nov 15 21:42:30 im not gonna release it to market until i add a few more things Nov 15 21:43:36 might even merge it with screen on Nov 15 21:43:45 err sms screen alert Nov 15 21:48:06 ahh thats better Nov 15 21:48:43 thanks for the tip towards irssi Nov 15 21:49:05 no backups for android?.. Nov 15 21:49:31 why install debian on g1 vs ssh to a linux box? Nov 15 21:49:32 whats our favorite 'android centric' wiki's &/or websites mates? Nov 15 21:49:35 no more than there were 15 mims ago Nov 15 21:50:05 * tech9iner chuckles imagining an opensuseLite on a g1.. Nov 15 21:50:47 this code is working or not Nov 15 21:50:49 http://www.anddev.org/tcp_sockets-t276.html Nov 15 21:57:12 anyone know what u can mix patron with to make a good drink? Nov 15 21:57:50 * jackalopen wishes there was a wiki bot in #android or a log poosted on the net Nov 15 21:58:32 mixing patron is a waste imo Nov 15 21:59:04 okay, dumb question time.. setting an ImageView with setClickable and using onclick, not the correct way to do it? Nov 15 21:59:17 i guess margherritas would be ok Nov 15 22:01:52 so far the only good reason i've heard for installing debian on a g1 is native compiling. Nov 15 22:03:25 but even that isn't a great reason...what are yo Nov 15 22:03:47 u going to code on the g1s keyboard? Nov 15 22:04:47 tech9iner, android-dls.com/wiki is a great place to start :) Nov 15 22:05:51 what would a wiki bot do? Nov 15 22:06:01 wouldnt that cause a lot of spam if a bot returned whole wiki articles? Nov 15 22:06:01 DarkriftX, tx muchly mate.. tis appreciated Nov 15 22:06:11 yw tech9iner Nov 15 22:06:38 i have rss feeds from the forum and wiki in another channel but no active search (search results from wiki sounds like a bad idea) Nov 15 22:15:04 i suppose a wiki bot would have several subjects that users could search via private messages, and could be updated manually by the ops based on information that comes to light via the discussions in this channel. Nov 15 22:15:29 i c :S Nov 15 22:15:40 so basically a large wiki page of definitions Nov 15 22:16:16 how long should it take my uploaded upgrade to reflect in the android store? Nov 15 22:17:37 well logs are a much less complicated solution i guess Nov 15 22:18:17 i dont know very much tcl and i dont see anything out there already for eggdrop or id test it out Nov 15 22:18:27 hey any reason why im unable to hit an ftp url from my g1? Nov 15 22:20:09 using? Nov 15 22:20:48 the browser Nov 15 22:21:39 :-s Nov 15 22:22:38 how about a faq bot instead Nov 15 22:22:51 is it not really possible to animate transitions between your activities? Nov 15 22:24:06 only between views? Nov 15 22:35:03 so has anyone tried connecting to an url from the G1 browser? Nov 15 22:39:34 sure Nov 15 22:39:36 alla ti8me Nov 15 22:39:37 why? Nov 15 22:39:50 oh, an _ftp_ url. Nov 15 22:39:55 I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't work. Nov 15 22:39:57 gimme one; I'll try Nov 15 22:41:01 is there anything special you have to do attach an OnClickListener to an ImageButton? Nov 15 22:41:23 why wouldnt b surprise if it didnt work? Nov 15 22:42:23 fb finally approved my stupid ad Nov 15 22:42:28 wrong chan Nov 15 22:48:51 how do i modify a column returned from the db into a SimpleCursorAdapter? (working with an int field Calendar.getTimeInMillis() .. want to run it through setTimeInMillis and a text printer..) Nov 15 22:49:15 or is that pretty much the definition of what SimpleCursorAdapter doesn't do? Nov 15 22:49:35 perhaps this is a question with an obvious answer but can i develope apps to run on android for personal use, or do they have to be published through the market in order to run them on a g1? Nov 15 22:49:45 you can run them on your g1 directly. Nov 15 22:49:58 or publish through market, or through alternative markets, or just off the web. Nov 15 22:50:42 how do i download it, my g1 won't show up as a storage device on my computer. Nov 15 22:50:43 (and for the record, iphone allows the same thing for devs - not the alternate publishing but you can dev on your unit and some test units - 15 or so iirc - without publishing it. it just goes by imei.) Nov 15 22:50:53 use adb Nov 15 22:51:21 is there anything special you have to do attach an OnClickListener to an ImageButton? I can't get the onclick to fire :/ Nov 15 22:51:24 http://code.google.com/android/intro/index.html Nov 15 22:51:59 is that a link to adb instructions? Nov 15 23:04:16 do ImageButtons not work with OnClickListeners or am I just stupid? Nov 15 23:04:32 ....http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/bfec9f37a929d4c4 wow Nov 15 23:05:01 ask 500 more times and you might find out. Nov 15 23:05:02 * RyeBrye thinks XMLBeans might work nicely on android... Nov 15 23:14:17 This has probably been asked 500 times too but I can't find the answer anywhere. Is it possible to connect to an ad-hoc network? So far the only answer I've found is to edit /system/etc/wifi/tiwlan.ini Nov 15 23:15:11 hmm, dunno Nov 15 23:15:15 good question Nov 15 23:21:27 what is that one site with the bluetooth stereo headset workaround tutorial again? Nov 15 23:21:42 never saw it Nov 15 23:21:52 I'm interested though Nov 15 23:22:30 I also forget what music manager just brought out support for the g1 Nov 15 23:22:43 oh, banshee Nov 15 23:23:07 i know the guy who works on banshee Nov 15 23:23:11 went to school with him Nov 15 23:23:25 he did a really bad presentation on fourier transforms once Nov 15 23:23:28 I've not tried it, but making such things easy is cool Nov 15 23:23:31 heh Nov 15 23:23:37 i'm looking forward to videolan Nov 15 23:23:55 i hope videolan isnt as resource intensive as the real version is Nov 15 23:24:09 and i hope they focus on streaming !! Nov 15 23:25:26 I seem to recal a security problem with streaming Nov 15 23:25:44 something incompatible with their model or something Nov 15 23:26:49 videolan + torrentflux Nov 15 23:26:56 heh Nov 15 23:27:05 what's torrentflux? some streaming video torrent widget? Nov 15 23:27:10 its an equation for media eutopia Nov 15 23:27:39 I've not seen any torrent for the g1 Nov 15 23:29:42 torrentflux is a php web client for running torrents on a server Nov 15 23:30:03 and streaming media Nov 15 23:30:52 hmm does it do anything special to serve it, like transcoding? or just a normal pass-through Nov 15 23:31:14 right now the codecs on android are pretty limited, and need special hinting to stream correctly Nov 15 23:31:16 streaming via vlc Nov 15 23:31:53 you can set it to stream using any codec installed on the computer Nov 15 23:32:58 google torrentflux b4rt if you want to learn more Nov 15 23:33:38 ya, looked at it Nov 15 23:33:44 g1 still needs a torrent client Nov 15 23:37:45 i will still use torrentflux when g1 gets its own. it uses your computer's bandwidth to download whatever you are getting and then you can directly download (or stream) from your own personal dedicated line from any device Nov 15 23:38:26 could anyone direct me on how to unpack a apk or to the docs so i figure this out Nov 15 23:38:28 ? Nov 15 23:40:38 hello Nov 15 23:40:51 hi useless Nov 15 23:40:55 is it possible to have android as main pc os ? Nov 15 23:41:04 not yet Nov 15 23:41:12 no? why? Nov 15 23:41:13 there is not enough for it to take the place of a pc os Nov 15 23:41:22 target_arch=x86 ??? Nov 15 23:41:24 give it 6mo and maybe Nov 15 23:41:29 dunno Nov 15 23:41:49 seems like the low end these days is just a browser, youtube, IM, ena email Nov 15 23:41:52 what's missing? Nov 15 23:41:59 can i run windows mobile as my pc os? jk Nov 15 23:42:02 it's definitely not for power users Nov 15 23:42:06 hehe Nov 15 23:42:29 android is open source Nov 15 23:42:33 ms mobile not Nov 15 23:42:34 :) Nov 15 23:42:38 but terminal, ssh, browser, email IMO is a good start for a desktop Nov 15 23:43:00 finally, is it possible or not ? Nov 15 23:43:01 and yet wm has an a2dp profile Nov 15 23:43:24 well there's not a port to a desktop at the moment Nov 15 23:43:28 android iso for x86 containing all stuff Nov 15 23:43:35 and it's not really setup for driving a big monitor Nov 15 23:44:08 i suppose that android can be the next desktop os Nov 15 23:44:23 It might migrated up to netbooks Nov 15 23:44:32 yes netbooks especially Nov 15 23:45:22 ya Nov 15 23:45:41 there's a project for ubuntu on arm on a netbook for 9.04 Nov 15 23:45:50 seems like a natural to support android as well Nov 15 23:47:10 i found many topics about cross compiling android for arm Nov 15 23:47:20 but not many for x86 Nov 15 23:48:57 make TARGET_ARCH=x86 TARGET_BUILD_TYPE=release TARGET_PRODUCT=simĀ  Nov 15 23:49:05 http://groups.google.com/group/android-porting/browse_thread/thread/ab553116dbc960da Nov 15 23:49:13 what is the screen res of a g1? Nov 15 23:49:24 very poor 8-( Nov 15 23:49:59 i'm waiting for htc blackstone Nov 15 23:50:04 currently I wouldn't recommend android for 1024x600 Nov 15 23:50:08 for this moment, it's windows mobile Nov 15 23:50:17 I'd like to see android on 800x480 Nov 15 23:50:25 like my n800 Nov 15 23:50:57 soo g1 is 400x280 or what Nov 15 23:53:21 ok thankns guys Nov 15 23:53:23 bye Nov 15 23:56:37 blort Nov 15 23:57:24 jackalopen: g1's screen is 480x320 aka HVGA Nov 15 23:58:10 how does that compare to an iphones res Nov 15 23:58:13 less then half of the n800 8-( Nov 15 23:58:18 same Nov 15 23:59:05 yeah same as the iphone Nov 15 23:59:38 i'd love to see WVGA too (800x480) Nov 16 00:01:05 htc touch hd Nov 16 00:01:36 though keep in mind that 2x pixels doesn't mean 2x the area. Nov 16 00:01:50 ya Nov 16 00:02:09 just nicer fonts, more paper like Nov 16 00:02:20 yeah Nov 16 00:02:38 imagine characters more than 1 pixel thick Nov 16 00:04:21 * geist dares to dream Nov 16 00:04:21 okay, I have to ask... how does my G1 know my location by my Wifi Nov 16 00:04:36 all my wifi has in it is 'Seattle, WA' as my location and my email address Nov 16 00:04:42 that's so puzzling Nov 16 00:04:47 I'm not talking a large blue blob Nov 16 00:04:57 it's showing the radius of my wifi as the blue blob and it's tiny Nov 16 00:05:10 Damm - The NSA? Nov 16 00:05:19 RyeBrye, seriously i'm thinking that. Nov 16 00:05:33 * tech9iner polls for raised hands of those whom have tried tethering g1's to laptops? Nov 16 00:05:41 Damm - so it's more specific than just geolocation based on your wifi's public IP? Nov 16 00:05:46 i think it makes associations between wifi macids and gps when both are available Nov 16 00:05:56 unsure though Nov 16 00:06:05 RyeBrye, my public IP doesn't know more then my geoip Nov 16 00:06:08 which is the greater seattle area Nov 16 00:06:48 danfuzz - and then it sends both those values to the NSA... I think I saw it in the source under stalkTerroristWifiUsers( ) ;) Nov 16 00:06:58 heh Nov 16 00:09:36 at one point I stored my lat/long in my blog Nov 16 00:09:41 but I haven't done that in ages. Nov 16 00:16:09 any body have info on unpacking a .apk Nov 16 00:16:46 it's just a zipfile Nov 16 00:17:05 so: unzip blort.apk Nov 16 00:17:06 use it with winzip? Nov 16 00:17:10 or 7zip Nov 16 00:17:40 i don't use windows, but anything that can read standard zipfiles should work Nov 16 00:18:41 ok im really new at this but im diving in... how do i open .dex and other files Nov 16 00:19:18 dex is the executable format. you don't generally open it, but you could always hexdump it Nov 16 00:19:27 or use the "dexdump" tool Nov 16 00:19:30 i think dex files are actually random data, used to give you the illusion of actually running something on the device Nov 16 00:19:33 what are you trying to do? Nov 16 00:19:37 is there a workaround that would allow me to stream online media that uses flash? Nov 16 00:19:48 in reality, dalvik knows what you want and directly inserts it into your brain Nov 16 00:19:52 ok the g1 came out with the tetherbit Nov 16 00:19:54 bit Nov 16 00:19:59 bot Nov 16 00:20:02 anywho Nov 16 00:20:12 heh, geist Nov 16 00:20:19 rc30 came out and aparently its not working anymore Nov 16 00:20:43 sorry, i can't help you there Nov 16 00:21:05 blehh... thanks anyways Nov 16 00:21:31 all i really wanna know how to do is open the .apk so i can see how the guy coded it Nov 16 00:21:54 just some kind of something so i can see how it works Nov 16 00:23:39 well you won't find source code Nov 16 00:23:54 but dexdump can show you the disassembly Nov 16 00:24:07 you'll have to learn dalvik bytecode, though Nov 16 00:24:35 that's documented in the source tree in Nov 16 00:27:49 I write my stuff straight in dalvik bytecode anyway Nov 16 00:28:15 rock on! Nov 16 00:28:22 well... maybe not :) But I thought about it :) Nov 16 00:28:31 aww Nov 16 00:28:44 maybe I'll write a Hello World or something Nov 16 00:29:08 every time someone codes in dalvik bytecode, an angel gets his wings Nov 16 00:35:33 is there ANY work arounds for downloading via 3g files unrestricted.. ? or is this practically impossible without major hacks? Nov 16 00:36:07 * tech9iner is still taken aback that g1 has such restrictive net access Nov 16 00:36:22 I think it just needs to have something in the system registered to be able to handle the MIME type - so talking to the people who write a file manager like Glance and asking them to register file handlers for stuff would probably do it Nov 16 00:36:41 I think the reason they don't have it just download arbitrary files is because the system was designed to not require a file manager Nov 16 00:54:03 Am I just stupid or can you not connect an OnClickListener to an ImageButton? :/ Nov 16 00:54:57 you're just stupid Nov 16 00:57:07 ask 499 more times and you might find out. Nov 16 01:56:32 how can I fix my android when its running slow..? Nov 16 01:56:47 Or how do i check how much memory i have on my phone? not storage card Nov 16 01:58:59 lol, you don't know how to do that by now? Nov 16 01:59:12 nope Nov 16 01:59:35 nvm Nov 16 01:59:37 found it Nov 16 01:59:57 36MB available, so why will my phone be lagging when opening messages? Nov 16 02:00:37 too many apps open Nov 16 02:00:38 restart it Nov 16 02:01:35 any other reason? Nov 16 02:01:42 and btw no apps will install on sd card right? so there's always a limit of how much app we can download? Nov 16 02:02:05 clear your browser cache Nov 16 02:02:10 and no you cannot install apps on your sd card Nov 16 02:02:48 (yet) Nov 16 02:03:02 KNY, I'll believe it when I see it. Nov 16 02:03:23 how do i clear cache? Nov 16 02:03:23 I think it will be a while until that happens Nov 16 02:03:30 I don't think it's a lie or anything, I just won't be holding my breath Nov 16 02:03:39 Hiro2, browser settings Nov 16 02:03:44 anyone in manhattan up for yakitori and drinks around st marks? bs over android, like whatever Nov 16 02:03:46 s/like/life Nov 16 02:03:47 KNY, pretty much what you just said is my opinion Nov 16 02:04:12 KNY: thank you Nov 16 02:04:36 I think what will happen is that future android phones will have a decent amount of internal flash, so nobody else will care except for G1 users Nov 16 02:05:07 that's just cruel to g1 users Nov 16 02:05:10 mib: wow yakitori sounds very good right now... Nov 16 02:05:13 RyeBrye, the more NAND ram you have the more power it consumes Nov 16 02:05:25 RyeBrye, so if you have 512meg you have a lesser battery life Nov 16 02:05:39 hm Nov 16 02:05:41 Damm, less than the G1? does it have enough juice to boot? ;) Nov 16 02:06:40 KNY, the G1 has 256meg? I think Nov 16 02:06:44 I forget Nov 16 02:06:52 Damm, that was a rip on the G1's battery life Nov 16 02:07:11 Hiro2, yeah one of our japanese friends will be joining us. gonna be a fun night even with the rain Nov 16 02:07:11 there Nov 16 02:07:13 it takes power to run your multiplexors! Nov 16 02:07:29 KNY, ahh Nov 16 02:07:45 ugh.. Nov 16 02:08:00 I reached 6days standby on my Sony Ericsson Z750a Nov 16 02:08:08 however my G1... lasts 2-days tops Nov 16 02:08:21 so mates.. htf does one get all ones data from one g1 to a replacement g1.. /me was asking 2 days here for true backup.. Nov 16 02:08:24 Damm - you get 2 days? WTF? What are you doing to get such awesome battery life? Nov 16 02:08:35 i just swapped out my phone & lotsa contacts & call logs etc are all gone.. Nov 16 02:08:36 Damm - Mine wont last more than overnight if i don't have it plugged in Nov 16 02:08:39 RyeBrye, 0 talk time... only use it for text Nov 16 02:08:51 I have brightness on 0 too Nov 16 02:08:58 htf does one move A L L data over to new g1 from old g1 please? Nov 16 02:09:03 wifi is turned off Nov 16 02:09:07 ALthough I think some piece of shit app is making my GPS be polled constantly Nov 16 02:09:10 no background apps running cept messaging Nov 16 02:09:19 I can't figure out what the hell is doing it - I think it might be pintail Nov 16 02:09:31 gps should be off unless the app is in foreground Nov 16 02:09:32 i thought Nov 16 02:09:38 Yeah, you would htink Nov 16 02:09:46 Right now it's not doing it Nov 16 02:10:10 but I completely reloaded my phone and I haven't launched pintail on it yet Nov 16 02:10:31 I barely have anything on mine cept a few games Nov 16 02:10:33 unloaded Locale Nov 16 02:10:45 Locale is a cool idea Nov 16 02:10:46 vibrate + ring at the highest volume, all I get is nagios text messages Nov 16 02:10:59 yeah I was trying to track down what was causing my phone to not wake me at night Nov 16 02:11:07 just switched nagios to send to my gmail instead Nov 16 02:11:18 i may hard reset it, and create a custom gmail just for nagios Nov 16 02:11:36 gmail = faster then mms/text. Nov 16 02:11:56 your nagios is sending SMS through an email gateway? Nov 16 02:11:58 and it works over wifi/etc Nov 16 02:12:04 yep Nov 16 02:12:07 Yeah, that is slow Nov 16 02:12:20 SMS from a straight up SMSC gateway is super fast - but it costs per each message you send Nov 16 02:13:08 I'm working on an on-call notification system for doctors right now and we use SMS as one of the notfication methods... it's so fast that we can get replies up on the screen in the ED before the doctors phone has even registered it is done sending the message Nov 16 02:13:17 I was amazed to see it work that fast Nov 16 02:14:18 well it's in a datacenter Nov 16 02:14:25 so to a SMSC isn't really worth while Nov 16 02:14:32 RyeBrye: heh, as compared to other messaging protocols that operate on basic IP ;-P where the lag is an extra 100ms. Nov 16 02:14:35 Yeah, doing straight email make sense Nov 16 02:14:40 and 100x cheaper. Nov 16 02:14:49 unix_infidel - you are right Nov 16 02:15:02 well we have unlimited text/mms Nov 16 02:15:05 so we don't care about cost Nov 16 02:15:21 company ponied up a bunch of G1's with 5k minutes and unlim data/text/mms Nov 16 02:15:22 unix_infidel - but we don't buy the phones for the doctors, and sms is a lot easier to support across all phones than IP-based stuff Nov 16 02:15:25 Damm: he's setting up a system, which will require cost of setting up a messaging service. Nov 16 02:15:34 mib: it'll be 1+ japanese friend if i go, lol Nov 16 02:15:49 ah he's not here Nov 16 02:15:52 unix_infidel, honestly i don't think i've ever done to an SMSC... there's usually a modem involved and dialing up Nov 16 02:15:55 unix_infidel - the cost of each message could be 100x higher than it is, and it still would beirrelevant Nov 16 02:16:02 and it's just not available on non 250+ line accounts with t-mobile Nov 16 02:16:10 if memory serves Nov 16 02:16:26 I forget what the service is called off the top of my head, but it's a 9600 baud modem that you just dialup to and send a text message thru Nov 16 02:16:42 Yeah, we outsource our sms stuff though - so we don't have the smsc connection ourselves Nov 16 02:17:18 SMS isn't the end-all be-all of the messaging system either - it's just one method Nov 16 02:17:19 RyeBrye: but that's the banality of telecom. Nov 16 02:17:30 similar to email. Nov 16 02:17:54 yeah Nov 16 02:18:30 but... anyway... the original point was - SMS can be very fast if you aren't using the email gateways, but unless you really need it to be as fast as it can be the cost really doesn't justify it Nov 16 02:19:04 $0.05 per message for < 1 sec or $0.00 per message for ??? time Nov 16 02:19:07 RyeBrye, T-Mobile's pretty crappy when it comes to SMS though, it can come 8hours late even from another T-mobile Customer Nov 16 02:19:37 RyeBrye: that's if you're outsourcing, like you are... Nov 16 02:19:44 truthfully i'd stick it on my Z750a but there's no point after i set it to gmail Nov 16 02:20:28 unix_infidel - yeah, I suppose smsc would be even cheaper if you did it yourself... but this is still a project in its early phases Nov 16 02:20:59 sadly that was my first project at this job I have Nov 16 02:21:01 roll out nagios Nov 16 02:21:07 RyeBrye: i'm under the impression that high availability messaging will be scooped under the medical devices umbrella. Nov 16 02:21:14 it was like new to them, because they never had nagios Nov 16 02:21:16 if you say you didnt get the page, you'll be accountable. Nov 16 02:21:29 I can't imagine the thought of a company not having nagios Nov 16 02:21:40 no more, the carrier effed up, or my device is unreliable. Nov 16 02:21:40 if you buy 2 F5 BigIP's, and you don't have nagios? Nov 16 02:21:42 unix_infidel - Yeah, that's why sms isn't the end-all be-all of the messaging system... each specialty has different requirements and we have fallback methods Nov 16 02:21:59 RyeBrye: which is the wrong approach entirely. Nov 16 02:22:07 that's like saying, lets have multiple crappy encryption methods. Nov 16 02:22:37 tech9iner: ping Nov 16 02:22:39 unix_infidel - having a strong encyrption doesn't matter if the client on the other end refuses to use it Nov 16 02:22:43 tech9iner: how did you get a new G1? Nov 16 02:22:49 Nov 16 02:23:01 unix_infidel - Doctors don't like to be told how to do their jobs... Nov 16 02:23:18 RyeBrye: unless they are told how to do their jobs. Nov 16 02:23:24 :) Nov 16 02:24:30 unix_infidel - if you saw the current systems they use, you'd probably cry Nov 16 02:24:41 RyeBrye: i'm well aware. Nov 16 02:24:50 Hiro2, ordered it from tmo? Nov 16 02:25:02 unix_infidel - just picture an ED room with a person with a binder with about 3-dozen sheets of paper all in different formats listing who is on call for which specialty... Nov 16 02:25:17 and that's for the LUCKY ones that have it organized into 1 binder Nov 16 02:25:26 tech9iner: did you get a replacement? or just one G1? Nov 16 02:25:27 RyeBrye: the words thumb tack come to mind. Nov 16 02:25:34 Yeah, no joke Nov 16 02:25:45 Hiro2, oh wait.. u mean how 2nd replacement?.. called & bitched them out daily since 2nd day i had it 2.5 wks back.. have huge documentation of all tmo's shortcomings & g1's eccentricities mate.. Nov 16 02:26:23 tech9iner: I'm still under 14 days since I got it, do you think I can get a new one if I bitch them? Nov 16 02:26:27 Hiro2, new g1 in box.. then replacement only.. they literally sent me just the phone.. no battery.. no cover.. no micro sd.. phone only.. Nov 16 02:26:55 Hiro2, with legitimate whines of course.. id get a new one in 73 days if need be.. Nov 16 02:27:02 tech9iner: I wonder if it's refurbished Nov 16 02:27:22 My one that I bought new was obviously at least used once before - it was already activated and had some weird gmail account already paired with it Nov 16 02:27:27 I bought it online Nov 16 02:27:31 tech9iner: Pm? Nov 16 02:27:31 (from tmobile) Nov 16 02:27:33 squeeky wheel gets da grease as it were #1.. #2.. t9's an old telecom consultant.. ;]]].. i know how to grind 'em dow Nov 16 02:27:35 down Nov 16 02:28:09 hi Nov 16 02:28:22 Hiro2, suspect it is refurb'd mate.. they warned me.. the only way they assure brand new replacements?.. is if one ships phone to them in orig box.. THEN they ship new r&r.. i bitched them out bout that too hehe Nov 16 02:29:03 tech9iner - my "New in box" wasn't even "new in box" (see my comment above - it was already paired with some strange gmail account) Nov 16 02:29:17 ByeBrye: that sucks, I guess I should think I'm fortunate? Nov 16 02:29:26 wtf tmobile???? its been on street for days & you cant send me brand new boxed r&r when my 1st g1 had reset mid call probs on 3rd day of use??.. 'sir if you asked us to send replacement then let u return rma phone.. no gaurantees its new' omfg.. Nov 16 02:29:39 ive been w tmo for less than 3 wks.. & already abhor them Nov 16 02:29:48 omg.. Nov 16 02:29:55 RyeBrye, via tmo i suspect eh? Nov 16 02:29:58 tmo sux.. Nov 16 02:30:06 their 3g is intermettent.. Nov 16 02:30:07 tech9iner: does "let me talk to your supervisor" work? Nov 16 02:30:30 takes bout 3 calls Hiro2 to get expidited to tier 2 support Nov 16 02:30:55 Hiro2, and thats only after calling them ea day & forcing many notes on acct.. Nov 16 02:31:45 ea time u have g1 hiccups.. call THEN.., & demand even if no time to hang out & resolve/troubleshoot.. just force them to note the problem then hangup.. take notes locally of the rep name time date etc.. Nov 16 02:32:03 just like courts of law.. the one w most documentation WINS! Nov 16 02:32:32 just saw ur pm request Hiro2 .. mea culpa.. wasnt ignoring it.. missed it lad Nov 16 02:32:54 now me beaf is.. htf? does one move ALL data over tween the g1's.. Nov 16 02:33:05 i ASSumed the sim had 98%.. Nov 16 02:33:18 but lost all call logs.. important to my biz.. etc.. Nov 16 02:33:42 cant seem to find ANY apps or ?? ways to do g1 FULL backups ANYwhere? Nov 16 02:33:58 have 2 SIM cards, start both up and manually transfer I guess? Nov 16 02:34:16 as bad as i wanted this phone.. im living my suspiciouns pre'order.. its out the door microsux style.. undeveloped & supported Nov 16 02:34:40 Hiro2, sim card doesnt contain call logs mate.. Nov 16 02:35:20 pre-order in the UK? Nov 16 02:35:21 just reverted the g1 swap out.. sure enough.. call logs still maintained in orig g1.. Nov 16 02:35:35 * tech9iner is usa.. Nov 16 02:39:24 tech9iner, nope Nov 16 02:39:31 there's nothing on the sim Nov 16 02:39:34 it's mostly on the google cloud Nov 16 02:39:41 tech9iner, you can do an adb pull / adb push Nov 16 02:39:44 between devices Nov 16 02:40:23 is it possible to sync a wireless keyboard to work with the g1? Nov 16 02:40:31 via bluetooth Nov 16 02:40:55 mattgyver83, no bluetooth profile cept voice gateway Nov 16 02:40:59 anything is possible when you're in pappy's cabin Nov 16 02:41:00 not even obex Nov 16 02:41:46 too bad theres no vnc client yet. Nov 16 02:42:02 that too Nov 16 02:42:11 alright hoes Nov 16 02:42:16 I need to make myself a screen Nov 16 02:43:13 Damm, again?.. adb pull / push?.. Nov 16 02:43:43 Damm, perhaps not clear as mudd lad.. i have one simm card.. one battery.. & 2 g1 shells ;]] Nov 16 02:44:34 that'll be $5 d03boy .. same as downtown.. Nov 16 02:44:47 d03boy, 'hoes' ;]] Nov 16 02:45:18 * tech9iner googles 'adb pull or push' Nov 16 02:46:00 lol Nov 16 02:46:46 * tech9iner is a cheap arse hoe.. will negotiate for mcgriddles for breakfast .. Nov 16 02:47:24 Damm, are you saying my call logs on the g1 are in cloud?.. be bit surprised here if yes.. Nov 16 02:47:59 * tech9iner thinks.. call logs in cloud.. yet cant download a fckg file or two?.. go figure.. Nov 16 02:48:53 lol @ damm .. 'damm' you good.. http://code.google.com/android/reference/adb.html Nov 16 02:49:02 PUN INTENDED Nov 16 02:50:47 Damm, must admit mate.. this is beyond me skills.. too too command line warlock'ish for my video brain.. isnt the a tard simple way to just backup all data on a laptop at all via g1's tether? Nov 16 02:51:05 *there a tard... Nov 16 02:57:53 niyiiice!.. http://www.android-unleashed.com/search/label/Howto Nov 16 02:58:23 neat Nov 16 02:58:27 lotsa hand hacks/work rounds 2 b had that site.. finally.. even howto down mp3's from gmail.. niyice **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 16 02:59:56 2008