**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 17 02:59:57 2008
Nov 17 03:01:48 <Hiro2> max: there's a simple application you can download to watch videos
Nov 17 03:03:12 <bert0> what is the easiest way to transfer files between android and linux pc via lan
Nov 17 03:03:26 <Maxpower57> err, i mean video recording, sorry.
Nov 17 03:03:44 <Disconnect> the community should write it
Nov 17 03:04:14 <gambler_> Google controls the means of production
Nov 17 03:04:59 <Maxpower57> im supprised it hans't been written already.. its a huge oversight
Nov 17 03:05:21 <kslater> could be it's been written and is just being withheld
Nov 17 03:05:30 <Maxpower57> true
Nov 17 03:05:36 <Disconnect> huger than a working email client, or backup/restore ability?
Nov 17 03:06:18 <Maxpower57> yes actually.
Nov 17 03:06:19 <Hiro2> btw anybody here good with alw?
Nov 17 03:06:28 <Hiro2> law*
Nov 17 03:06:45 <Disconnect> Hiro2: DannyB during the week. law-type from the goog.
Nov 17 03:06:59 <kslater> the goog
Nov 17 03:07:00 <Disconnect> but relaly, you need to get your own councel
Nov 17 03:07:11 <kslater> that's what we've been calling our G1 phones
Nov 17 03:07:12 <Hiro2> just a question in general
Nov 17 03:07:23 <Hiro2> what's the worst that can happen when you get arrested for trespassing?
Nov 17 03:07:40 <kslater> depends on what country you're in
Nov 17 03:07:41 <Maxpower57> does google plan out the major update releases for android? or are they just happening when they happen?
Nov 17 03:07:47 <Hiro2> US, florida
Nov 17 03:08:10 <Disconnect> Hiro2: maybe you should ask somewhere else
Nov 17 03:08:19 <Hiro2> Disconnect: lol very true
Nov 17 03:08:19 <kslater> hmm. what's trespassing a misdemeanor?
Nov 17 03:08:25 <Hiro2> kslater: yes
Nov 17 03:08:57 <kslater> seems like you should be able to find that info online somewhere
Nov 17 03:09:26 <kslater> seems like a good question to ask a defense lawyer.
Nov 17 03:09:59 <Hiro2> sounds expensive..
Nov 17 03:11:19 <SystemWizard> anyone tried to use the TwoLineListItem ?
Nov 17 03:26:33 <thesquib> I'm using a Listview and an ArrayAdapter to populate a list on the screen. What I really want to do is modify the list - add/remove/modify items. Has anyone done this?
Nov 17 03:28:32 <zhobbs> I've never heard of garage door openers that are wifi enabled
Nov 17 03:28:35 <zhobbs> http://androidguys.com/?p=2810
Nov 17 03:29:11 <zhobbs> oh, nevermind, he wrote a server and hooked to to his garage door :)
Nov 17 03:29:17 <zhobbs> http://brad.livejournal.com/2394220.html
Nov 17 03:29:55 <gambler_> cool
Nov 17 03:32:15 <gambler_> im after some of this stuff for my crib: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_glass
Nov 17 03:34:46 <zhobbs> that's cool
Nov 17 03:36:04 <zhobbs> after I buy a house I'd like to get into some X10 stuff
Nov 17 03:36:43 <`vip> anyone else having problems with the market atm ?
Nov 17 03:37:11 <`vip> trying to download some games, and it says my download will be in the background, check status blah blah .. but it's not downloading :l
Nov 17 03:37:46 <SystemWizard> `vip: market is working from here in seattle
Nov 17 03:37:56 <`vip> hrm weird
Nov 17 03:40:27 <gambler_> zhobbs, the problem with X10 from what ive heard is that is really slow
Nov 17 03:41:06 <zhobbs> hmm, interesting
Nov 17 03:41:20 <zhobbs> haven't researched it very much, just sounded nice to have a standard for everything
Nov 17 03:42:37 <Andomic> hey for those who have the G1 phone, have u all upgraded ur memory card to the 8 gb?
Nov 17 03:42:49 <zhobbs> I have
Nov 17 03:42:57 <gambler_> CAT 5 / WIFI seems like they could work too
Nov 17 03:44:16 <Andomic> how much it cost ya zhobbs?
Nov 17 03:44:27 <gambler_> zhobbs, If I get the time at some stage I want to build a home automation system around XBMC
Nov 17 03:44:34 <unix_infidel> gambler_: you mean the X1?
Nov 17 03:45:01 <zhobbs> gambler_: hah, that's interesting
Nov 17 03:46:14 <zhobbs> Andomic: < $30
Nov 17 03:46:25 <zhobbs> actually, $32 after shipping
Nov 17 03:46:34 <Andomic> which store?
Nov 17 03:46:39 <zhobbs> newegg
Nov 17 03:47:01 <gambler_> unix_infidel, X1?
Nov 17 03:47:06 <zhobbs> looks like about $70 for 16 GB
Nov 17 03:47:14 <unix_infidel> you said X10.
Nov 17 03:47:18 <Andomic> oh yeh, on newegg?
Nov 17 03:47:29 <zhobbs> Andomic: actually, $50
Nov 17 03:47:31 <DannyB> Hiro2: depends on your definition of worst, where you are, etc
Nov 17 03:47:37 <zhobbs> Andomic: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A1511624&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=27530&lid=627063
Nov 17 03:47:49 <zhobbs> or as low as $15/month :)
Nov 17 03:47:50 <DannyB> Hiro2: most lawyers will give you a consult for free, call one :)
Nov 17 03:48:11 <zhobbs> unix_infidel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard)
Nov 17 04:07:01 <bert0> .
Nov 17 04:10:48 <_avatar> interesting you guys are talking about X10 stuff, i've been working on an X10 android app in my free time
Nov 17 04:11:15 <unix_infidel> http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/16/800-mhz-cpu-packing-p565-handset-appears-on-asus-site/
Nov 17 04:11:27 <unix_infidel> looks to be a lot more than VGA, looks more like HVGA to me.
Nov 17 04:11:56 <unix_infidel> though a 2.8 hvga would be crazy.
Nov 17 04:17:41 <spikebike> unix_infidel: not to mention less ram
Nov 17 04:32:30 <unix_infidel> spikebike: dunno, having a crappy display and a super fast processor that sucks battery is like buying an alienware laptop.
Nov 17 04:32:46 <unix_infidel> more like a 12 inch alienware laptop.
Nov 17 04:43:08 <gambler_> I dont understand hardware vendors
Nov 17 04:43:26 <gambler_> its almost like politics. why wouldnt asus put Android on that handset?
Nov 17 04:45:54 <RyeBrye> How much does google charge to license the Google pieces of Android? I know a person could just use android without using those parts - but I think a lot of consumers might feel ripped off if they can't use apps that have the cool mapview stuff
Nov 17 04:46:19 <d03boy> $8
Nov 17 04:46:31 <RyeBrye> (I'm sure that question can't be answered here - since it's probably one of those case-by-case things... but perhaps that licensing fee is relevant)
Nov 17 04:46:51 <RyeBrye> Yes, throwing Windows Mobile 6.1 on it is retarded
Nov 17 04:46:59 <RyeBrye> (that asus phone, that is)
Nov 17 04:47:26 <RyeBrye> What chipset does that "800Mhz Marvel CPU" use?
Nov 17 04:48:01 <RyeBrye> And damnit - that Asus P565 has a SIRF Star III chipset in it ! :/
Nov 17 04:48:30 <Damm> kinda sad that Marvel got Intel's ARM line
Nov 17 04:48:33 <Damm> I hate Marvel.
Nov 17 04:49:13 <RyeBrye> "The ASUS P565 is designed to leave a deep and lasting impression. Its battery lid is lined with black synthetic leather, commanding instant respect and attention."
Nov 17 04:49:21 <RyeBrye> Because nothing says "elegant" like fake leather
Nov 17 04:49:31 <d03boy> wizard of oz is a great movie
Nov 17 04:49:47 <Damm> lol RyeBrye.
Nov 17 04:49:49 <Damm> totally
Nov 17 04:50:10 <tech9iner> lol
Nov 17 04:50:40 * tech9iner decides to ship pos tmobiles rma g1 back & keeps the brand new one...
Nov 17 04:53:29 <Damm> tech9iner, why did you get a new one anyway?
Nov 17 04:54:25 <SystemWizard> anyone have a suggestion for a mac-based icon development tool for the artistically stunted?
Nov 17 04:56:04 <kRutOn> Anyone know of a way to touch the data in a WebView?
Nov 17 05:17:28 <DarkriftX> julia stiles is hawt
Nov 17 05:20:22 <offby1> oh, indeed
Nov 17 05:41:56 <plasuinm> loook at meee I'm on irc! from my G1!  wheeeeeeee!
Nov 17 05:44:01 <d03boy> no you're not
Nov 17 05:44:03 <d03boy> anymore
Nov 17 05:44:23 <Leeds> <nelson>Ha ha!</nelson>
Nov 17 05:45:17 * offby1 had the same reaction as plasuinm
Nov 17 05:45:22 <offby1> ... when I discovered connectbot
Nov 17 05:50:26 <DarkriftX> he wasnt on connectbot though
Nov 17 05:50:32 <DarkriftX> he connected from this phone :S
Nov 17 05:50:39 <DarkriftX> look at his host
Nov 17 05:50:54 <xsdg> someone should just up and make a netcat app
Nov 17 05:55:57 <d03boy> where do I find the damn XML button info
Nov 17 05:57:37 <umdk1d3> ive done irc over telnet/netcat before  :)
Nov 17 05:57:50 <dgilmore> DarkriftX: i use connectbot to ssh to my dedicated box were i run irssi in screen from :)
Nov 17 05:57:57 <xsdg> umdk1d3: yeah, same here
Nov 17 05:58:09 <umdk1d3> altho i wasnt entirely rfc 1459 complient  ;)
Nov 17 05:58:23 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 17 05:58:29 <DarkriftX> neither are most irc clients :S
Nov 17 05:58:31 <xsdg> well, rfc 1459 doesn't mean a whole lot nowadays anyway
Nov 17 06:07:16 <d03boy> <Button android:id="@+id/my_id" android:text="button" />
Nov 17 06:07:25 <d03boy> am i missing something here? it wont show up in the gui creator
Nov 17 06:19:23 <g1er> looks right to me :/ perhaps..
Nov 17 06:19:34 <g1er> <button android:id...
Nov 17 06:19:41 <g1er> android:text..
Nov 17 06:19:47 <g1er> />
Nov 17 06:20:18 <g1er> but i don't think breaks matter do they?
Nov 17 06:21:04 <d03boy> shouldnt
Nov 17 06:21:20 <d03boy> g1er, when I launch the very simple code, it has a runtime error
Nov 17 06:21:34 <d03boy> "stopped unexpectedly"
Nov 17 06:23:50 <PINguAR_> i have a rc30-android. is it possible to revert it back to rc29 via SD card?
Nov 17 06:25:52 <RyeBrye> PINguAR_ - the android recovery mode only accepts signed images, and will not downgrade
Nov 17 06:26:15 <PINguAR_> RyeBrye: are there any hacky way to do this?
Nov 17 06:26:21 <Leeds> at this point, there is no known way (at least, known to me :-) ) to downgrade
Nov 17 06:26:23 <JohnQ> Anyone have any words of wisdom on how to make an app which has no view, and just does a bit of work, and quits?
Nov 17 06:26:34 <PINguAR_> RyeBrye: my phone doesn't work after rc30, i hope it will work with rc29. :/
Nov 17 06:26:44 <RyeBrye> it doesn't work at all?
Nov 17 06:26:45 <gambler_> JohnQ, just generate HelloAndroid
Nov 17 06:26:51 <RyeBrye> Hm
Nov 17 06:27:01 <PINguAR_> RyeBrye: nope, it just can't get any signals
Nov 17 06:27:01 <JohnQ> gambler_: my helloandroid is a textview
Nov 17 06:27:11 <RyeBrye> Hmm
Nov 17 06:27:17 <PINguAR_> RyeBrye: it was not tmobile, though. it was unlocked
Nov 17 06:27:22 <gambler_> so?
Nov 17 06:27:49 <JohnQ> gambler_: textview is a view...
Nov 17 06:27:56 <PINguAR_> RyeBrye: it keeps telling "network service unavailable"
Nov 17 06:28:24 <JohnQ> When I launch my app, I don't even want it to leave the home screen.. just run and display a toast.
Nov 17 06:28:38 <Leeds> PINguAR_: what network, where?
Nov 17 06:28:55 <gambler_> JohnQ, there is an example in the SDK where you can compost over the background
Nov 17 06:28:56 <Leeds> JohnQ: can you just use a Service?
Nov 17 06:29:08 <PINguAR_> Leeds: in TURKEY, tried with different 3 operators: Vodafona, Avea and Turkcell
Nov 17 06:29:12 <gambler_> (not sure if that is the correct use of the word compost)
Nov 17 06:29:17 <JohnQ> Hmm
Nov 17 06:29:20 <gambler_> but anyway you can make it transparent
Nov 17 06:29:24 <JohnQ> Maybe a service would work..
Nov 17 06:29:36 <DarkriftX> i think RyeBrye just proved the G1 is multitouch
Nov 17 06:29:44 <JohnQ> I guess I can quit the service right after I show the toast.
Nov 17 06:29:45 <RyeBrye> yep
Nov 17 06:29:47 <RyeBrye> I think so
Nov 17 06:29:55 <Leeds> gambler_: I don't think it is :-)  do you mean composite?
Nov 17 06:29:57 <DarkriftX> rye try pinching and stuff
Nov 17 06:29:58 <After_Math> does the calendar on Android let you set reminders on a monthly basis? something like alarm clock that goes off everyday but instead goes off every month? would be awsome for bill payments reminders
Nov 17 06:30:17 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - The actions wont do anything, since I doubt the software uses them
Nov 17 06:30:24 <DarkriftX> i know that
Nov 17 06:30:30 <DarkriftX> i want to see if the numbers move properly
Nov 17 06:30:37 <RyeBrye> oh, ok
Nov 17 06:30:42 <After_Math> multitouch?
Nov 17 06:30:42 <gambler_> Leeds, no idea man. My graphics knowledge is pretty lacking.
Nov 17 06:30:45 <gambler_> :/
Nov 17 06:30:50 <Leeds> is multitouch-gesture the same as multi-tap?
Nov 17 06:31:04 <JohnQ> Leeds: There's no reason a service cant quit right away is there?
Nov 17 06:31:20 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it's not enabled - but there is stuff in the synaptics driver that was commented out
Nov 17 06:31:24 <RyeBrye> It DEFINITELY tracks 2 fingers
Nov 17 06:31:26 <Leeds> JohnQ: wouldn't think so - but then I haven't got past Hello Android yet :-)
Nov 17 06:31:31 <JohnQ> hehe
Nov 17 06:31:34 <JohnQ> kay.  thanks
Nov 17 06:34:26 <gambler_> To correct myself --> I think the correct terminology is alpha transparency.
Nov 17 06:38:46 <Leeds> does anyone know if 'the browser' has a plugin interface?
Nov 17 06:44:51 <RyeBrye> Ok... The G1 screen is DEFINITELY capable of multitouch.
Nov 17 06:44:53 <RyeBrye> now... WHY don't we have it?
Nov 17 06:44:54 <RyeBrye> :D
Nov 17 06:45:14 <Leeds> patents?
Nov 17 06:45:23 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: http://www.google.com/patents?q=multitouch&btnG=Search+Patents
Nov 17 06:45:27 <den0ts|G1> really?
Nov 17 06:45:41 <den0ts|G1> call it something else
Nov 17 06:46:02 <den0ts|G1> you shouldnt be able tpo paytent how someone touches a touchscreen
Nov 17 06:46:13 <Leeds> there are a lot of things you shouldn't be able to patent
Nov 17 06:46:18 <den0ts|G1> sorry im on the g1
Nov 17 06:46:45 <den0ts|G1> what is my whois info?
Nov 17 06:47:13 <Leeds> n=den0ts@m490e36d0.tmodns.net
Nov 17 06:47:55 <den0ts|G1> i wonder if it would change if i turned 3g on
Nov 17 06:50:00 <RyeBrye> so... license it?
Nov 17 06:50:58 <RyeBrye> ionstorm  - you around?
Nov 17 06:51:34 <den0ts|G1> license what
Nov 17 06:51:41 <Leeds> in general, open source things don't license patents
Nov 17 06:52:40 <DarkriftX> they should call it DualTouch
Nov 17 06:52:41 <DarkriftX> heh
Nov 17 06:52:50 <DarkriftX> doesnt mean the same as multi exactly lol
Nov 17 06:52:55 <ttuttle> DarkriftX: Um, that wouldn't prevent it from being the same thing.
Nov 17 06:53:03 <languish> Multitap
Nov 17 06:53:10 <ttuttle> Patents != Trademarks
Nov 17 06:53:12 <Leeds> patents are on technologies, not names
Nov 17 06:54:58 <RyeBrye> yeah, patent using 2 fingers instead of N-fingers
Nov 17 06:55:02 <RyeBrye> the patent office is retarted
Nov 17 06:55:04 <RyeBrye> they might let it go through
Nov 17 06:55:18 <den0ts|G1> but how do you call it a true free market/capitalism when you make it impossible for more than 1 company (or in this case community) to evolve the product,service, or technology
Nov 17 06:55:47 <Leeds> den0ts|G1: there are lots of writings online about how the current patent system is broken
Nov 17 06:56:27 <Leeds> RyeBrye: if the patent was written by a patent lawyer, it probably covers toes and unlimited numbers of fingers
Nov 17 06:57:34 <RyeBrye> Well - good news... Google is behind Android so it exists
Nov 17 06:57:53 <RyeBrye> Bad news - Google is behind android - so it'd be a huge target for a lawsuit :/
Nov 17 06:58:21 <den0ts|G1> http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk
Nov 17 07:02:55 <ide> hi
Nov 17 07:05:01 <JohnQ> Leeds: Seems that a service didnt work.. apparently there is no way to launch it form the home screen :-(
Nov 17 07:05:24 <ide> hi
Nov 17 07:06:45 <Leeds> I'm sure there is a way... you want to hang around a bit and bug Google people when they get online :-)
Nov 17 07:27:58 <_avatar> i have a ListView in a regular Activity that uses a BaseAdapter. I set each row's onClickListener in BaseAdapter.getView(). As soon as I assign an OnClickListener the row no longer displays its "pressed" state when the view is touched. I can get it to "work" by using a state drawable and specifying an <item android:state_pressed...> state, but I'd rather let the system draw this state for me. any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Nov 17 07:28:25 <_avatar> i've done a fair amount with ListViews in the past, but I've always used custom state drawables for the rows
Nov 17 07:30:45 <yogesh> how dalvik, interface with kernel?
Nov 17 07:32:04 <Fnord^-> it doesn't. if by interface you mean alter kernel settings
Nov 17 07:34:42 <yogesh> ok, dalvik convert .jar to .dex, then how these dex executes?
Nov 17 07:37:36 <Leeds> they are executed by the dalvik vm
Nov 17 07:37:37 <Fnord^-> not sure about specifics on that.
Nov 17 07:37:45 <Fnord^-> system() or such
Nov 17 07:37:46 <Fnord^-> heh
Nov 17 07:48:01 <_avatar> well, if anyone cares, the solution to my listview row problem was to just set the view's background to "@android:drawable/list_selector_background"
Nov 17 08:37:54 <RyeBrye> In case anyone is interested in the multitouch bit... http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/
Nov 17 08:44:54 <languish> RyeBrye, good post
Nov 17 08:45:09 <RyeBrye> The easiest place to see is on the 2 fingers flicking left or flicking right
Nov 17 08:45:39 <RyeBrye> (at least for me - since it's easy to just look at the X's and see the Y's stay roughtly the same)
Nov 17 08:50:46 <Neverender1> http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2008/11/16/adobe-to-demo-flash-on-mobile-but-only-windows-still-working-on-the-iphone/
Nov 17 08:50:55 <Neverender1> says something about an android port
Nov 17 08:51:00 <Neverender1> for flash
Nov 17 08:51:13 <RyeBrye> lame
Nov 17 08:52:59 <Neverender1> heh
Nov 17 08:53:07 <Neverender1> very interesting post RyeBrye
Nov 17 08:53:12 <Neverender1> about the multithouch
Nov 17 08:53:18 <RyeBrye> Yeah. Kind of sucks that it's not being used
Nov 17 08:54:31 <RyeBrye> it was ionstorm that made me reconsider it - I thought people were crazy to even think it would be so stupid to have a multitouch screen and not use it
Nov 17 08:54:48 <Neverender1> yeah
Nov 17 08:55:14 <Neverender1> its probably patents, like you said
Nov 17 08:55:28 <RyeBrye> I prefer to consider wild-ass conspiracy theories...
Nov 17 08:55:31 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 17 08:55:35 <RyeBrye> but yeah, most likely patents
Nov 17 08:55:47 <RyeBrye> But... Isn't Eric Schmidt on Apple's board... ;)
Nov 17 08:56:15 <Neverender1> heh
Nov 17 08:56:16 <Fnord^-> what I wanna know is why is voice search going on iphone but not android
Nov 17 08:56:40 <RyeBrye> Google obivously puts all their good mobile phone developers on their iPhone projects! ;)
Nov 17 08:56:54 <Neverender1> maybe it will be in the next update
Nov 17 08:56:56 <Neverender1> who knows
Nov 17 08:56:56 <RyeBrye> (j/k - google folks lurking here... Just wanted to throw a jab)
Nov 17 08:57:05 <RyeBrye> The multitouch? That's a really big thing to put in a software update
Nov 17 08:57:09 <RyeBrye> but yeah, it would be nice to have
Nov 17 08:57:13 <tauno> Fnord^-, http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/11/google-iphone-a.html "Google's voice search: Why on iPhone, not Android?"
Nov 17 08:58:05 <RyeBrye> I'm pretty sure I could write google voice search for Android
Nov 17 08:58:11 <RyeBrye> Since it already has voice recognition built into it
Nov 17 08:58:19 <Neverender1> 2`.-
Nov 17 08:58:27 <Neverender1> oops
Nov 17 08:58:35 <languish> wtf tmo
Nov 17 08:58:56 <Fnord^-> ahh
Nov 17 08:58:58 <RyeBrye> s/voice/speech/
Nov 17 08:58:59 <infobot> RyeBrye meant: Since it already has speech recognition built into it
Nov 17 08:59:16 <RyeBrye> Oh. it must be a private API now though
Nov 17 08:59:32 <Fnord^-> testing tiepo
Nov 17 08:59:39 <Fnord^-> s/tiepo/typo/
Nov 17 08:59:40 <infobot> Fnord^- meant: testing typo
Nov 17 08:59:45 <Fnord^-> hah, neat
Nov 17 09:08:05 <RyeBrye> WEll... the beauty of open source...
Nov 17 09:09:22 <RyeBrye> People with rooted phones can reflash their stuff - so if we can figure out if the google proprietary stuff can be mixed in with the normal open source build to enable the MapView stuff and the YouTube app... etc.  - we could probably create our own git place to put multitouch patches and just have our own wildly patent-infringing version that we would never of course install... but just maintain code for  ;)
Nov 17 09:09:37 <RyeBrye> and host the git repo somewhere like sweden or china or something
Nov 17 09:10:50 <Fnord^-> it's not possible for any 3rd party vm app to access /data/data/com.android.providers.settings/databases/settings.db
Nov 17 09:10:52 <Fnord^-> yeah?
Nov 17 09:11:34 <Leeds> RyeBrye: I believe it's been said that Eric Schmidt recuses himself from anything to do with phones at Apple
Nov 17 09:13:44 <RyeBrye> Leeds - Yeah, I've heard that too - but I was just concocting a crazy conspiracy theory and ignoring occam's razor ;)
Nov 17 09:14:05 <Leeds> damn that Occam!
Nov 17 09:17:51 <Fnord^-> hmmm http proxy settings don't seem to work anymore
Nov 17 09:19:37 <irig> Hi all i am using ubantu
Nov 17 09:20:24 <irig> do we need to follow all the steps tht are mentioned in http://source.android.com/download to build android ?
Nov 17 09:20:48 <irig> actually i have the android source code
Nov 17 09:20:50 <soundmonster> irig: yes
Nov 17 09:21:41 <irig> but when i try to build it throws some error like this "Java module does not define any source or resource files.  Stop."
Nov 17 09:22:04 <soundmonster> irig: did you use repo for checking out the code?
Nov 17 09:22:14 <soundmonster> or did you use plain git commands?
Nov 17 09:22:55 <soundmonster> btw, check out your alternatives for java, it may be that you still have some links pointing to gcj
Nov 17 09:23:36 <irig> do i need all those installations which are mentioned in the link >
Nov 17 09:23:36 <irig> git-core ,sun-java6-jdk,flex bison gperf libsdl-dev libesd0-dev libwxgtk2.6-dev build-essential zip curl libncurses5-dev,valgrind ?
Nov 17 09:24:14 <soundmonster> yes, except velgrind - it is optional.
Nov 17 09:26:52 <irig> as said in the doc i am directly going into the android code and trying out make
Nov 17 09:26:52 <irig> But i am not doing the steps which are mentioned in "Setting up your machine"
Nov 17 09:26:52 <irig> i think i am wrong right ?
Nov 17 09:26:52 <irig> please confirm
Nov 17 09:28:00 <soundmonster> yes, you are :-) If google posts a howto for ubuntu, isn't it obvious that you should follow it?
Nov 17 09:28:15 <soundmonster> you have at least to set the environment vars
Nov 17 09:28:18 <Leeds> or to put it differently - why are you ignoring the instructions?
Nov 17 09:30:29 <irig> Ok thnx soundmonster and Leeds
Nov 17 09:31:04 <irig> i was ignoring those instructions because i already had the downloaded source code through one of my friend
Nov 17 09:31:37 <irig> so i thought i can use the code stright forward and do a make on the code
Nov 17 09:31:46 <soundmonster> okay, np
Nov 17 09:32:01 <irig> But it guess it needs JDK for compiling
Nov 17 09:32:12 <Leeds> did you try running ./configure first?
Nov 17 09:33:35 <soundmonster> irig: it needs a whole lot to compile :-) and yes, the SunJDK, to be precise.
Nov 17 09:34:19 <irig> where is this ./configure ?
Nov 17 09:34:23 <soundmonster> Leeds: there is no configure script in the build system, why run ./configure?
Nov 17 09:34:31 <soundmonster> irig: i guess, nowhere
Nov 17 09:34:49 <Leeds> soundmonster: <sarcasm>did you try running ./configure first?</sarcasm>
Nov 17 09:35:02 <soundmonster> :-X
Nov 17 09:35:40 <soundmonster> i'll bet irig never compiled an autotools package before, why confuse him/her?
Nov 17 09:36:02 <Leeds> why do you bet that?
Nov 17 09:36:27 <soundmonster> <quote>irig: where is this ./configure ?</quote>
Nov 17 09:39:19 <Leeds> he/she seemed to think he/she knew better than the instructions...
Nov 17 09:40:22 <soundmonster> okay, yeah, you can put it this way :-) but i think he/she only thought that the instructions only concern downloading the code.
Nov 17 09:41:03 <irig> ayways i will use instructions
Nov 17 09:41:20 <soundmonster> yep, good idea :-) good luch
Nov 17 09:41:24 <soundmonster> s/lich/luck
Nov 17 09:41:39 <Leeds> good lunch, yes
Nov 17 09:43:11 <soundmonster> a bit too early for lunch? we have 10:41 right now :-) (btw, seems that i need a new keyboard )
Nov 17 09:43:53 <sujith> where can i found the Userspace HAL codes in android source code?
Nov 17 09:53:38 <infernixx> j #hortongroup
Nov 17 09:53:56 <sujith> any one has any porting experience of android on real hardware?
Nov 17 10:21:41 <sujith> anybody there?
Nov 17 10:31:09 <Fnord^-> yah
Nov 17 10:32:54 <Fnord^-> someone here familiar with iptables? :>
Nov 17 10:34:30 <llight> Does android supports named semaphores and shared memory ? both POSIX and SYSV API failed.. (POSIX doesn't compile, SYSV return -ENOSYS in runtime)
Nov 17 10:35:02 <tauno> are there nay good examples how to save the state of Dialogs when changing orientations? I'm currently just leaking the Dialogs but i wonder how I could save/restore them so they "survive" the onDestory() onCreate()
Nov 17 10:37:18 <tric> llight: for native code? i doubt that. they stipped the libc and stuff alot
Nov 17 10:38:12 <tric> and they implemented their own ipc in kernel layer for dalvik, so there is no reason to add native ipc. maybe try to port aidl to use from C or C++
Nov 17 10:38:49 <llight> tric: yeah but I see sysv ipc code in the kernel, and bionic stubs, so i'm not sure what's going on there
Nov 17 10:39:20 <tric> android specific code or only left overs from vanilla tree?
Nov 17 10:39:56 <llight> well in the kernel it's standard code, not android specific, and in bionic it's stubs automatically generated by a python script..
Nov 17 10:40:13 <tric> what are you trying to do to have a need for native ipc?
Nov 17 10:40:45 <llight> to compile and run linux applications..
Nov 17 10:41:03 <llight> (native)
Nov 17 10:41:38 <llight> any idea where should I ask about this to get an official answer ? maybe one of the mailing lists ?
Nov 17 10:41:39 <tric> hmm, i doubt itll work for more complex apps, because of the simple libc, most depend on glibc
Nov 17 10:42:07 <tric> "official answer"==google does not support native development on android (at this time)
Nov 17 10:43:52 <llight> hmm. i see. thanks. any idea whether there is a mailing where i can expect answer like "yeah there is sysv ipc code in the kernel and bionic stubs but they don't work because 1. 2. 3... " ?
Nov 17 10:43:53 <tric> you can only hope ppl like jbq, romainguy or other google folks in here may point you to a solution
Nov 17 10:45:07 <tric> i didnt read the latest mailing lists after the closing of -internals, but iirc there is a kernel and/or porting related ml you might use.
Nov 17 10:45:36 <llight> i see. thank you. maybe i will lurk around to see if google ppl show up soon
Nov 17 10:46:46 <tric> but the problem remains, google doesnt support it. so dont expect much help.
Nov 17 10:47:04 <tric> what exactly are you trying to port?
Nov 17 10:47:09 <Fnord^-> huh. can someone do a find /androidsourceroot -name crtend_android.o  and tell me if it exists?
Nov 17 10:47:10 <llight> yeah i don't expect support. just to know whether it exists or not
Nov 17 10:48:35 <llight> tfnord: running
Nov 17 10:48:39 <tric> i guess it does in kernel layer, but no userland support
Nov 17 10:48:40 <Fnord^-> kk
Nov 17 10:48:46 <tric> |find -name crtend_android.o
Nov 17 10:48:46 <tric> |./out/target/product/generic/obj/lib/crtend_android.o
Nov 17 10:48:51 <Fnord^-> wtf
Nov 17 10:49:07 <llight> tric: nothing specific right now. i'm checking to see if it's possible before i put too much effort..
Nov 17 10:49:13 <Fnord^-> i think 'make clean' destroyed stuff :-O rebuilding doesn't work
Nov 17 10:49:32 <Fnord^-> can you possibly send a tar of ./out/target/product/generic/obj/lib/ ? :P
Nov 17 10:49:42 <tric> llight: maybe youll have to port the posix stuff yourself ;)
Nov 17 10:49:53 * Fnord^- just uses glibc heh
Nov 17 10:50:11 <tric> fnord: shouldnt git revert help you?
Nov 17 10:50:14 <llight> tric: hey no probs but i'd hate to see it already exists ;)
Nov 17 10:50:30 <Fnord^-> hm
Nov 17 10:50:31 <Fnord^-> mebbie
Nov 17 10:50:33 <llight> fnord: my find returned empty handed
Nov 17 10:50:33 * Fnord^- tries
Nov 17 10:50:35 <tric> fnord: you got a ported glibc for current android?
Nov 17 10:51:00 <Fnord^-> tric: it's from the codesorcery tarball
Nov 17 10:51:08 <tric> llight: did you do a full make on your tree?
Nov 17 10:51:27 <llight> tric: nope, it's still fresh
Nov 17 10:51:49 <llight> brb
Nov 17 10:52:01 <blau> ugh dont feel good
Nov 17 10:52:48 <tric> llight: thats why you are missing .o ;)
Nov 17 10:57:19 <Fnord^-> http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm/portal/package3397/public/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/arm-2008q3-41-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2
Nov 17 10:57:28 <Fnord^-> oh neat they have uclibc
Nov 17 10:57:50 <Fnord^-> err no uclinux. hrm
Nov 17 10:58:48 <tric> yes, im using the codesourcery toolchain, but didnt try to use the glibc on android device, does it actually work?
Nov 17 10:59:21 <tric> i would expect itll break some android stuff, like logcat logging
Nov 17 11:00:37 <Fnord^-> It works. Especially seeing as nothing uses /lib
Nov 17 11:05:27 <tric> interesting
Nov 17 11:05:56 <tric> but i guess most uses /system/lib?
Nov 17 11:08:17 <Fnord^-> Yah.
Nov 17 11:18:18 <Fnord^-> bionic really does suck..
Nov 17 11:18:20 <Fnord^-> pty.c:145: error: 'I_PUSH' undeclared (first use in this function)
Nov 17 11:20:34 <llight> hey i see android has some own shared memory implementation in the kernel: mm/ashmem.c
Nov 17 11:20:38 <llight> any idea what that is ?
Nov 17 11:21:05 <tric> prolly the kernel level for the aidl solution
Nov 17 11:21:26 <llight> what's aidl ?
Nov 17 11:23:17 <tric> the android ipc solution. http://code.google.com/android/reference/aidl.html
Nov 17 11:24:07 <llight> thx i'll look into it. btw i see that the property service uses this ashmem
Nov 17 11:36:33 <Fnord^-> Linking against android's libcrypto is a PITA, too
Nov 17 11:37:54 <sujith> does any one has any idea Media Framework of Android?
Nov 17 11:37:57 <tric> well, android is not linux, so dont expect linux stuff to work ;)
Nov 17 11:39:19 <Fnord^-> It's especially problematic because the build system doesn't echo commands. :P
Nov 17 11:39:43 <sujith> android/external/opencore/codecs_v2/video/ is it the correct path of  video codecs?
Nov 17 11:40:33 <Fnord^-> i have that directory
Nov 17 12:03:47 <Fnord^-> http://n1.fnord.to/stunnel-native :P
Nov 17 12:08:47 * Fnord^- saves openvpn for tomorrow lest he stay up 3 more hours
Nov 17 12:24:23 <sujith> in android there is kernel folder which contains the linux kernel and we can create the kernel image by executing the make file inside the kernel folder
Nov 17 12:24:53 <sujith> once the image is created we can port the kernel image to memory og the hardware and boot from there
Nov 17 12:25:42 <sujith> but my doubt is there are many things lying outside this kernel folder like video codecs , java apllications etc , how we will port all those stuffs on the hardware
Nov 17 12:25:43 <sujith> ?
Nov 17 12:26:15 <sujith> if i wanna write a driver for a specific hardware how i am going to make it work in case of android?
Nov 17 12:33:04 <sujith> does anyone has any answer for my question?
Nov 17 12:35:26 <offby1> generally, silence implies "no"
Nov 17 12:35:57 <tric> and noone can tell if anyone has any answer
Nov 17 12:36:19 <llight> hey anyone knows what is the kernel/drivers/android/pmem.c driver for ?
Nov 17 12:36:41 <sujith> ok then whats the use of this chat
Nov 17 12:36:48 <sujith> if no one wants to answer
Nov 17 12:37:27 <offby1> the use is: sometimes people _do_ answer.
Nov 17 12:37:36 <sujith> we are here to share our thoughts and clear our doubts
Nov 17 12:38:00 <offby1> and saying "no one wants to answer" implies that some of us know the answer, but are perversely remaining silent, just to piss you off; whereas it's more likely that nobody actually knows the answer.
Nov 17 12:38:05 <sujith> if anyone who knows the answer remains silent then he has no right to stay here in this chat
Nov 17 12:38:34 <Neverender1> lol
Nov 17 12:38:42 <llight> :)
Nov 17 12:39:16 <sujith> it seems like a irc chat now ;)
Nov 17 12:39:50 <sujith> we need participation not silence :)
Nov 17 12:40:31 <tric> llight: pmem.c sounds like power managment
Nov 17 12:41:00 <tric> without looking at it ;)
Nov 17 12:41:22 <llight> it's more like something with memory. that's why i'm fiddling with it - hoping to find some named shared mem implementation..
Nov 17 12:43:41 <tauno> Is someone wokring on a lightsaber app? One of the iPhone guys here challenged me to a fight..
Nov 17 13:11:14 <tauno> huh... paint.measureText("a long string..") overflows somehow and returns a big negative number. But the text itself can't really be THAT big (p.measureText("M") * text.length() is something like 190000)
Nov 17 13:11:21 <tauno> smells like a bug?
Nov 17 13:12:40 <offby1> sure
Nov 17 13:31:37 <tauno> wtf.. paint.measureText() uses shorts internally so when the string length goes over 32767, it overflows to -32,768.. I mean.. didn't someone realise that people need to measure bigger texts in some cases? ;)
Nov 17 13:32:01 <tauno> and why does it return an int if it really is capable of only returning shorts..
Nov 17 13:36:16 <languish> random G1 sighting http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/rpSlideshows?articleId=USRTX8VYM20081113#a=9
Nov 17 13:50:59 <`vip> when i download something, where is it stored at ...
Nov 17 13:51:14 <`vip> when i cleared my browser history, it erased the notification also :l
Nov 17 13:51:20 <languish> depends on how you're downloading it
Nov 17 13:51:45 <languish> .apk's you download via the browser to install, the original file ends up on the sd card
Nov 17 13:51:54 <languish> but it doesn't install there
Nov 17 13:52:23 <languish> some things end up in /cache
Nov 17 13:52:50 <languish> all depends on what you're downloading, and how
Nov 17 13:53:04 <languish> most stuff should end up on the sd card afaik
Nov 17 13:53:39 <languish> hahah
Nov 17 13:53:43 <languish> err wrong channel :|
Nov 17 13:54:25 <sujith> what is Multi Format codec in Android?
Nov 17 14:02:05 <pandzilla> 7wi3
Nov 17 14:02:08 <pandzilla> woops.
Nov 17 14:04:19 <tauno> anyone know where the source for android.graphics.Paint is? can't find it in base.git
Nov 17 14:04:50 <Digital_Pioneer> Hi. What are some phones that (can) have Android on them? I'd like to stay as cheap as possible...
Nov 17 14:05:02 <Dougie187> The G!
Nov 17 14:05:03 <Dougie187> G1
Nov 17 14:05:11 <`vip> yeah the G1 is pretty cheap ..
Nov 17 14:05:13 <Digital_Pioneer> Also, just saw an article saying Android has voice recognition. That's awesome, but how well does it work?
Nov 17 14:05:16 <Digital_Pioneer> How much?
Nov 17 14:05:16 <Dougie187> Thats probably your best bet.
Nov 17 14:05:22 <Dougie187> go to tmobile.com
Nov 17 14:05:25 <`vip> do you have Tmo ?
Nov 17 14:05:35 <Digital_Pioneer> I don't have a plan yet.
Nov 17 14:05:46 <`vip> with a new two year its 179
Nov 17 14:06:41 <jbq> tauno: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=graphics/java/android/graphics/Paint.java;h=6fac9695421584bef355b090afad53127f6f5da7;hb=master
Nov 17 14:06:50 <Digital_Pioneer> And is it possible to flash a different OS to the G1 if I don't like Android? (I've heard some say they don't.)
Nov 17 14:07:06 <tauno> jbq, thanks
Nov 17 14:07:11 <Dougie187> well, if you don't like it it's probably better to return it within 14 days.
Nov 17 14:07:22 <Dougie187> or, if you are thinking you won't like it, just get a different phone and don't worry about android
Nov 17 14:07:25 <`vip> not sure Digital_Pioneer .... but yeah what Dougie187 said
Nov 17 14:07:30 <`vip> android is pretty awesome so far
Nov 17 14:07:30 <tauno> was searching for it under the core folder :/
Nov 17 14:07:45 <`vip> i came from winmo and i love android a lot more .... smoother
Nov 17 14:07:53 <Digital_Pioneer> OK.
Nov 17 14:08:02 <Digital_Pioneer> Great. :)
Nov 17 14:08:11 <Digital_Pioneer> And how well does the voice recognition work?
Nov 17 14:08:20 <jbq> tauno: system/core is the really low-level stuff.
Nov 17 14:08:34 <tauno> ah.. measureText() is a native method.. that's partly good partly bad in my case :/
Nov 17 14:08:36 <`vip> not sure Digital_Pioneer, haven't used it ...
Nov 17 14:08:48 <Digital_Pioneer> IC.
Nov 17 14:08:56 <`vip> im sure someone here has
Nov 17 14:09:20 <`vip> what phone do you currently have
Nov 17 14:09:22 <jbq> tauno: yeah, most of the framework is actually thin layers around native code.
Nov 17 14:09:25 <Digital_Pioneer> Does the G1 use WiFi?
Nov 17 14:09:31 <jbq> (the major exception being the view system)
Nov 17 14:09:32 <`vip> yes
Nov 17 14:09:41 <Dougie187> good morning yakischloba
Nov 17 14:09:50 <Digital_Pioneer> Sweet.
Nov 17 14:09:58 <yakischloba> morning
Nov 17 14:10:02 <Dougie187> hows it going?
Nov 17 14:10:07 <yakischloba> it's so foggy i can barely see cars 20 yards in front of me riding in heh
Nov 17 14:10:11 <Digital_Pioneer> And it's Linux-based, no? So can I access a command line? ;)
Nov 17 14:10:46 <Dougie187> thats too bad.
Nov 17 14:10:55 <jbq> Digital_Pioneer: it only has a linux kernel, and uses it very differently from desktop linux systems, so it won't look that familiar.
Nov 17 14:10:59 <Dougie187> at least its brighter out then it use to be at this time.
Nov 17 14:10:59 <llight> hi, anyone knows if native shared memory is supported (I get -ENOSYS when using shmget...) ?
Nov 17 14:11:20 <sujith> no we don't know
Nov 17 14:11:21 <Digital_Pioneer> jbq: So no BASH?
Nov 17 14:11:51 <jbq> Digital_Pioneer: correct. it could probably be ported, though, but it's not there by default.
Nov 17 14:11:51 <llight> but I do see the sys_shmget code in the kernel..
Nov 17 14:12:07 <Digital_Pioneer> jbq: Ahh, too bad.
Nov 17 14:12:13 <llight> and there is a stub in bionic that calls the system call..
Nov 17 14:12:31 <jbq> Digital_Pioneer: there's a minimum shell accessible through USB for debugging, but it's not meant to be a "production" application.
Nov 17 14:12:46 <Digital_Pioneer> Right.
Nov 17 14:14:18 <llight> hi! anyone knows whether android supports system V IPC API ?
Nov 17 14:14:35 <llight> like named shared memory, and named semaphores..
Nov 17 14:14:54 <llight> (talking native here, for C/C++ apps)
Nov 17 14:14:57 <Leeds> llight: it's Linux, underneath
Nov 17 14:15:45 <llight> Leeds: I can see the relevant kernel code but I wonder whether bionic supports it. when trying I can weird results..
Nov 17 14:15:49 <Digital_Pioneer> Scud. TMobile has no service in my area... Does any other carrier sell the G1? (Unsubsidized phones are too expensive. :( )
Nov 17 14:15:54 <llight> *can = get
Nov 17 14:16:12 <Leeds> what's bionic?
Nov 17 14:16:21 <llight> bionic = android c library
Nov 17 14:16:22 <Leeds> oh, the C library?
Nov 17 14:16:26 <llight> ya
Nov 17 14:16:34 <Leeds> install a real libc :-)
Nov 17 14:16:58 <llight> gulp ;)
Nov 17 14:17:11 <jbq> Digital_Pioneer: well, technically the G1 is the name of T-Mobile's device, so I'd be surprised if you saw it under that name anywhere else. At the moment T-Mobile is the only one selling that device.
Nov 17 14:17:39 <Digital_Pioneer> Pshht. Any other phones that use Android?
Nov 17 14:17:56 <Digital_Pioneer> (I know the Freerunner can, and I'd love to have it, but I can't afford it)
Nov 17 14:18:01 <jbq> Leeds: any specific issues with bionic? All of Android runs on top of it (including all the 3rd-party code that got imported), so it can't be that bad ;-)
Nov 17 14:18:25 <Leeds> jbq: absolutely no idea
Nov 17 14:18:28 <jbq> Digital_Pioneer: the G1 is currently the only one. Even the FreeRunner would be very rough.
Nov 17 14:18:45 <Leeds> the device is actually an HTC Dream, branded as G1 when sold by T-Mobile
Nov 17 14:18:52 <Digital_Pioneer> Yeah...
Nov 17 14:18:58 <jbq> Leeds: OK, I was just curious if you had hit a specific limitation that we weren't aware of.
Nov 17 14:19:05 <Leeds> in theory - or in a few months when the exclusivity expires - you could see other people selling it
Nov 17 14:19:12 <Digital_Pioneer> So can I get an HTC Dream with some other carrier and flash Android to it?
Nov 17 14:19:17 <llight> jbq: leeds was referring to my problems with getting IPC functions to work.. any idea if bionic supports any API for named shared memory and named semaphores ?
Nov 17 14:19:20 <Leeds> jbq: llight is the one seeing unexpected behaviour, not me
Nov 17 14:19:49 <Leeds> Digital_Pioneer: in theory yes, in practice no - nobody is selling a Dream other than T-Mobile... and you wouldn't need to flash Android, since it's native to the device
Nov 17 14:20:26 <Leeds> there's almost certainly an exclusive contract in operation, and I don't know if anyone can tell you when it would end
Nov 17 14:20:30 <jbq> Leeds: k. that looked more like a kernel issue than a bionic issue.
Nov 17 14:20:53 <Digital_Pioneer> So T-Mobile doesn't have service in my area, therefore I can't get an Android phone. Hmm.
Nov 17 14:22:11 <Leeds> that's not true
Nov 17 14:22:34 <Leeds> T-Mobile *certainly* doesn't have service in my area, since I live thousands of miles from the US... but I've got a G1
Nov 17 14:22:46 <Digital_Pioneer> How much did you pay for it?
Nov 17 14:22:59 <llight> jbq: when trying to work with shmget for example I get -ENOSYS... :(
Nov 17 14:23:36 <jbq> llight: I'm unfortunately entirely unfamiliar with those kernel APIs :(
Nov 17 14:23:40 <Leeds> lots
Nov 17 14:23:52 <Digital_Pioneer> Yeah, that's not good for me. :P
Nov 17 14:24:10 <Leeds> approx US$570 before trade-in
Nov 17 14:24:23 <Leeds> ah, so you want a *cheap* Android device... that's not what you said
Nov 17 14:24:35 <llight> jbq: K, thx!
Nov 17 14:24:47 <tauno> Leeds, you got one cheap compared to me :P
Nov 17 14:24:59 <Leeds> that reminds me...
Nov 17 14:25:00 <Leeds> eugene: ping?
Nov 17 14:26:04 <Digital_Pioneer> Leeds: Yeah, sorry to confuse. :)
Nov 17 14:26:54 <llight> jbq: any idea who should I ask about it ?
Nov 17 14:28:44 <jbq> llight: you could try the android-platform mailing list (or maybe android-kernel, I'm not sure, just be sure to not cross-post).
Nov 17 14:30:11 <Digital_Pioneer> Well, alas. It seems impossible to find a good phone without spending >$400 on it.
Nov 17 14:30:51 <llight> ok, thanks.
Nov 17 14:31:06 <Leeds> Digital_Pioneer: why would you think it would be possible - barring huge network subsidies?  advanced portable electronics cost money
Nov 17 14:32:30 <Digital_Pioneer> Leeds: I wouldn't. I'm looking for the huge subsidies. :P
Nov 17 14:33:14 <Leeds> I like to buy a phone, not get it on HP
Nov 17 14:33:33 <Digital_Pioneer> Define HP...
Nov 17 14:34:16 <Digital_Pioneer> And I'd like that too, but I'm poor college kid. I don't have much money.
Nov 17 14:34:38 <Leeds> hire purchase
Nov 17 14:35:28 <Digital_Pioneer> Ahh
Nov 17 14:37:58 <Digital_Pioneer> Leeds: Well, thanks for your help. I've gotta run.
Nov 17 14:38:29 <Leeds> did I help?  oh well, you're welcome
Nov 17 14:38:59 <Digital_Pioneer> Well, you ruled out one more option. The G1 costs more than the Freerunner...
Nov 17 14:39:24 <Leeds> and one is a real mass-market phone, one isn't
Nov 17 14:40:00 <Digital_Pioneer> Am I to take that to mean you don't like the Freerunner?
Nov 17 14:40:46 <Leeds> no
Nov 17 14:40:54 <Leeds> it's an interesting prototype
Nov 17 14:41:37 <Digital_Pioneer> It makes calls and does fun stuff. That's all I need. :)
Nov 17 14:41:52 <Digital_Pioneer> (Fun stuff being whatever I can do in a completely open Linux-based OS)
Nov 17 14:43:43 <Digital_Pioneer> Bye. Thanks
Nov 17 14:49:37 <pandzilla> are there any hard dates for the G1 release in Ol' Yurop yet?
Nov 17 14:50:07 <pandzilla> seems the only way of getting a device here is through some rather shady sources on ebay, for ridiculous prices
Nov 17 14:50:45 <languish> it's already on sale in the .uk
Nov 17 14:50:58 <languish> assuming you meant Yurop to be Europe
Nov 17 14:51:10 <pandzilla> sure I do, just being silly
Nov 17 14:51:10 <languish> if Yurop is somewhere else, I haven't heard of it.
Nov 17 14:51:29 <pandzilla> I was specifically thinking of Germany
Nov 17 14:51:36 <pandzilla> since that's where I'm located
Nov 17 14:51:55 <pandzilla> I'd just bug some of my US buddies, but it's slightly painful with the import taxes and all
Nov 17 14:53:48 <vol> pandzilla: taxes are only levied if someone knows to levy them ;)
Nov 17 14:54:18 <pandzilla> vol: problem is that the german customs are pretty much on top of things for stuff shipped from the US to .de
Nov 17 14:54:43 <pandzilla> and you're legally required to denote the value of the package when shipping
Nov 17 14:56:08 <pandzilla> so, hrm
Nov 17 14:56:29 <vol> $20, it's a toaster.
Nov 17 14:58:08 <pandzilla> might work, but if it's opened, you're screwed
Nov 17 14:58:21 <pandzilla> I think they x-ray the packages now
Nov 17 14:58:35 <pandzilla> they had a documentary about that on ebay.de, actually
Nov 17 14:58:46 <pandzilla> dunno how much of that is just FUD propaganda
Nov 17 15:02:12 <vol> lead-lined box.
Nov 17 15:02:27 <vol> stick like 10 Nokia 3595s in there
Nov 17 15:02:30 <vol> as decoys
Nov 17 15:04:12 <languish> or ship it in a toaster :|
Nov 17 15:04:30 <languish> just pray they don't take it out and plug it in :(
Nov 17 15:04:51 <languish> or you'd receive g1oast
Nov 17 15:04:55 <Dougie187> languish: you can always put a short in the toaster.
Nov 17 15:05:10 <languish> Dougie187, they're german, they'd fix it.
Nov 17 15:05:13 <vol> I suspect they'd discover the phone shaped obstruction in the phone
Nov 17 15:05:18 <vol> and remove it as a defect
Nov 17 15:05:23 <vol> and ship the toaster to you, fixed
Nov 17 15:05:23 <pandzilla> lol @ gloast
Nov 17 15:05:56 <pandzilla> vol: doing that while charging me for both - that'd be exactly like them
Nov 17 15:06:13 <Dougie187> lol
Nov 17 15:30:04 <tauno> what licence do the icons in Contacts app use?
Nov 17 15:30:46 <tauno> apache?
Nov 17 15:32:06 <Damm> check out the contacts tree, and view it
Nov 17 15:33:01 <Damm> apache 2.0 license
Nov 17 15:38:05 <tauno> Damm, thansk
Nov 17 15:38:45 <tauno> s/thansk/thanks
Nov 17 15:39:07 <tauno> ok, that's some voodo magic there I guess.. :)
Nov 17 15:45:44 <tric> hmm, anyone knows under which licence the http://code.google.com/android/documentation.html stuff is released? is using those images allowed?
Nov 17 16:09:19 <ttuttle> anyone know a good screen protector for the g1?
Nov 17 16:12:47 <languish> ttuttle, let romainguy_ talk you out of needing one.
Nov 17 16:12:49 <languish> :)
Nov 17 16:13:20 <languish> I'm sure you've heard/seen his "I've even tried to scratch it with my keys" line..
Nov 17 16:13:33 <languish> lol
Nov 17 16:13:38 <unix_lappy> but we forgot to throw in a 3.5mm jack ;-P
Nov 17 16:13:50 <languish> ur a jack, jack.
Nov 17 16:13:53 <languish> :|
Nov 17 16:13:57 <Leeds> hit the road, jack
Nov 17 16:14:09 <cutmasta> lol
Nov 17 16:14:15 <vol> argh.
Nov 17 16:14:19 <ttuttle> languish: mine already has scratches :(
Nov 17 16:14:23 <vol> I meant to type make clean-libld
Nov 17 16:14:30 <vol> instead I typed make clean libld
Nov 17 16:14:30 <languish> ttuttle how'd you manage it?
Nov 17 16:14:33 <vol> you can guess what that did.
Nov 17 16:14:52 <Leeds> oops :-)
Nov 17 16:15:11 <ttuttle> languish: ...tossed it into a bowl with a fork in it (forgot the bowl was on my bed). also maybe keys.
Nov 17 16:15:20 <languish> haha
Nov 17 16:15:31 <languish> yeah, they didn't see you coming..
Nov 17 16:16:11 <languish> hope you weren't eating tunafish or something in that bowl
Nov 17 16:16:18 <ttuttle> languish: nope
Nov 17 16:16:37 <ttuttle> languish: it was enpty by then, but there was pasta in it
Nov 17 16:16:42 <languish> nod
Nov 17 16:16:48 <languish> at least it wasn't a bowl of milk
Nov 17 16:16:55 <ttuttle> heh
Nov 17 16:17:18 <languish> i wonder if milk turns the moisture dot red
Nov 17 16:17:31 <languish> or what liquid wouldn't
Nov 17 16:17:32 <Disconnect> ttuttle: i love the invisishields fyi
Nov 17 16:18:13 <ttuttle> Disconnect: okay
Nov 17 16:18:18 * Disconnect has it on his mbp, e90, the wif's old blackberry, coworker's new blackberry, and now the g1.
Nov 17 16:18:52 <Disconnect> and i've got an associate's link if you want to be kind :) but either way, they are awesome.
Nov 17 16:19:17 <ttuttle> sure, link away
Nov 17 16:19:25 <ttuttle> email it to me
Nov 17 16:19:34 <ttuttle> thinkinginbinary at gmail dot com
Nov 17 16:19:40 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: are they available in B&M stores?
Nov 17 16:19:42 <vol> wait, what is this moisturedot
Nov 17 16:20:11 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: didn't see it for g1 but a lot of them are @ bestbuy these days
Nov 17 16:21:25 <unix_lappy> meh, i might stop my and see what it's made of and get a sheet at lowes or whatever.
Nov 17 16:21:46 <ttuttle> Disconnect: sent?
Nov 17 16:21:46 <tauno> vol, it's a little dot on the battery that changes color if it comes in touch with moisture (water etc)
Nov 17 16:21:50 <vol> ah
Nov 17 16:21:55 <Disconnect> ttuttle: just sent
Nov 17 16:21:57 <tauno> as far as I know..
Nov 17 16:21:59 <languish> vol, near the battery, little white dot. if it gets wet, it changes color.. tells warranty support you got the phone wet
Nov 17 16:22:01 <vol> for warrenty purposes?
Nov 17 16:22:03 <ttuttle> Disconnect: ok
Nov 17 16:22:06 <vol> *warranty
Nov 17 16:22:07 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: its made of the stuff they use on the leading edge of .mil helicopter blades.
Nov 17 16:22:14 <ttuttle> got it
Nov 17 16:22:17 <languish> vol, yep
Nov 17 16:22:18 <tauno> vol, and then when you take your phone to the warranty, they say it's moisture damage..
Nov 17 16:22:31 <vol> so the solution is to get another battery first! :D
Nov 17 16:22:39 <unix_lappy> what if you replace the battery?
Nov 17 16:22:44 <tauno> vol, exactly :)
Nov 17 16:22:47 <languish> `vol, it's not ON the battery
Nov 17 16:23:18 <vol> hmm
Nov 17 16:23:21 <tauno> languish, it isn't? what's the "white thingie with blue lines that turned red when I soaked my phone underwater" then ? :)
Nov 17 16:26:20 <languish> tauno, your hand?
Nov 17 16:27:12 <languish> the moisture dot is usually in the same area where you seat the battery.
Nov 17 16:27:51 <languish> or wherever engineering feels it is most likely to detect liquid from a leak in to the inner casing
Nov 17 16:28:13 <KNY> I think there are sensors on both the battery and the casing
Nov 17 16:28:22 <KNY> I just pulled mine apart to check
Nov 17 16:28:23 <languish> tis possible
Nov 17 16:28:53 <languish> but the ones on the battery aren't called a "moisture dot" might be a moisture strip
Nov 17 16:28:54 <KNY> there's a white dot on the casing, and a white square with red dots on the battery
Nov 17 16:28:58 <romainguy__> languish: I'm sure you've heard/seen his "I've even tried to scratch it with my keys" line.. << didn't you try yourself?
Nov 17 16:29:30 <ttuttle> Disconnect: do i want the full-body shield or the screen only one?  I'm not really worried about scratching the case...
Nov 17 16:29:31 <languish> romainguy__, your confidence in my gullability is depressing.
Nov 17 16:30:00 <ttuttle> romainguy__: so you say the G1 is unscratchable?
Nov 17 16:30:03 <Disconnect> ttuttle: i got full-body but haven't put it all on yet. so.. ymmv. (then again, when i ordered it was preorder full-body only.) if you only worry about the screen, jsut get the screen. :)
Nov 17 16:30:16 <romainguy__> ttuttle: I'm sure you can scratch it if you wanted to
Nov 17 16:30:22 <romainguy__> I haven't tried with a power drill yet
Nov 17 16:30:39 <ttuttle> romainguy__: i didn't want to, but i have. :-\
Nov 17 16:30:54 <languish> with a fork'n bowl
Nov 17 16:30:59 <languish> lulz
Nov 17 16:31:04 <Disconnect> fwiw i got a small scratch on the screen in teh week or so before the intellishield arrived. and i'm fairly careful about my devices.
Nov 17 16:31:13 <skbohra> where to get android source code?
Nov 17 16:31:20 <romainguy__> skbohra: source.android.com
Nov 17 16:31:24 <skbohra> without git
Nov 17 16:31:35 <ttuttle> skbohra: dude, read the !@#$ topic.  it's the first link!
Nov 17 16:31:36 <Disconnect> (and as a warning, the shield adds some texture to the screen. i thought that was desperately needed, personally, but if you like the super-slick oily-glass feel then you might not want one..)
Nov 17 16:31:47 <KNY> skbohra, why would you want that?
Nov 17 16:31:49 <ttuttle> skbohra: um, we use git.
Nov 17 16:31:53 <danfuzz> you can browse it on git.source.android.com
Nov 17 16:31:58 <ttuttle> skbohra: that's how it works.
Nov 17 16:32:16 <KNY> When making a call, how do I bring the dialer back up so that I can respond to "blah blah blah, press 1"
Nov 17 16:32:17 <KNY> ?
Nov 17 16:32:17 <danfuzz> though itls pretty durn easy to get git etc
Nov 17 16:32:30 <danfuzz> also, hi
Nov 17 16:32:42 <romainguy__> KNY: click/drag the tab at the bottom
Nov 17 16:32:45 <skbohra> my bandwidth doesnt think so
Nov 17 16:32:46 <languish> KNY, just flick up the tab on the bottom of the screen
Nov 17 16:32:52 <skbohra> :)
Nov 17 16:32:59 <tauno> romainguy__, mind If I bitch a little today also about.. stuff ? :/
Nov 17 16:33:04 <KNY> ohhhh okay. Thanks!
Nov 17 16:33:16 <languish> tauno plans to outdo me
Nov 17 16:33:30 <languish> which is fine, I'm in semi-retirement
Nov 17 16:35:01 <ttuttle> isaac: ooh, do they have invisibleshields for the canon rebel xti? i may buy one...
Nov 17 16:35:35 <Disconnect> ttuttle: ..Disconnect maybe? :) but yah, buy one of each just in case you get something for christmas and need to protect it :P
Nov 17 16:35:40 <ttuttle> er
Nov 17 16:35:48 <ttuttle> yeah, i meant Disconnect
Nov 17 16:35:50 <isaac> :P
Nov 17 16:35:51 <ttuttle> Disconnect: :P
Nov 17 16:36:01 <isaac> you highlighted me for nothing ... argh
Nov 17 16:36:31 <Disconnect> what a waste of electrons
Nov 17 16:36:43 <KNY> they died an honorable death
Nov 17 16:37:06 <languish> electrons be free
Nov 17 16:37:39 <llight> hi, anyone knows if bionic libc supports API like shmget, semget and friends ?
Nov 17 16:37:46 <ttuttle> isaac: I'm sorry :(
Nov 17 16:37:47 <tauno> romainguy__ seems to have found his way to "/ingore tauno" :P everybody does at the end.. it's only a matter of time :)
Nov 17 16:38:29 * languish does it now. Why waste time?
Nov 17 16:38:33 <ttuttle> can we please have #android-complaints or something?
Nov 17 16:39:09 <tauno> ttuttle, of course you can.. feel free to join ;)
Nov 17 16:39:33 <tauno> there are like.. 2 members already.. get in quickly before space runs out
Nov 17 16:42:47 <ttuttle> dis
Nov 17 16:42:54 <ttuttle> er
Nov 17 16:43:07 <Disconnect> re
Nov 17 16:43:07 <Disconnect> sid
Nov 17 16:43:22 <ttuttle> Disconnect: zagg does not like my address :-(
Nov 17 16:43:23 <llight> hey, any1 know what is /dev/pmem ?
Nov 17 16:43:34 <ttuttle> llight: google?
Nov 17 16:43:39 <llight> nothing.. :(
Nov 17 16:44:14 <llight> the MemoryHeapPmem class use it.. but no idea what that either :(
Nov 17 16:44:30 <Disconnect> ttuttle: ?
Nov 17 16:45:07 <ttuttle> Disconnect: it says tthere's an error with it
Nov 17 16:47:21 <Disconnect> suckage. can wait another while (hour?) for live chat to appear and see what they say..
Nov 17 16:47:44 <ttuttle> Disconnect: okay
Nov 17 16:49:26 * Disconnect doesn't know what else to suggest, i just use the stuff and have an ad :) i don't work for them or anything
Nov 17 16:49:49 <ttuttle> Disconnect: hmm, it's working now
Nov 17 16:49:56 <Disconnect> well cool :)
Nov 17 16:50:12 <ttuttle> Disconnect: so you get a decent cut?  i imagine these are fairly profitable to sell.
Nov 17 16:50:23 <Disconnect> 5% iirc. not spectacular but not terrible.
Nov 17 16:51:51 <vol> Bleh. Finally finished building. Ok, when I hit "make libld" it tells me that there's no rule for that. Do pseudorules not work?
Nov 17 16:56:53 <tethridge> any rumors of when we'll see the next android phone?
Nov 17 16:57:03 <ttuttle> teth
Nov 17 16:57:10 <ttuttle> argh
Nov 17 16:57:18 <tethridge> :-)
Nov 17 16:57:21 <ttuttle> tethridge: probably this decade
Nov 17 16:57:28 <tethridge> that rumor sucks
Nov 17 16:57:29 <ttuttle> enter is too close to backspace.
Nov 17 16:57:45 <tethridge> I don't believe it.  :-)
Nov 17 16:58:33 <tethridge> seriously though, I'm getting anxious.  My contract with Sprint is up in Feb and I know it takes a while to get the phones out.
Nov 17 16:58:55 <tethridge> If I don't start hearing rumors soon, then I don't think there will be any new phones out by then
Nov 17 16:59:00 <unix_lappy> tethridge: somewhere between 3Q and 4Q 09
Nov 17 16:59:13 <tethridge> I don't know if I can wait that long.  :-)
Nov 17 16:59:27 <unix_lappy> but just because we'll see another device doesnt mean it wont be just a motoQ with android on it.
Nov 17 16:59:38 <tauno> huh.. then I have time with the app here.. no rishing if new phones arrive in a year or so :)
Nov 17 16:59:45 <tauno> rushing*
Nov 17 17:00:09 <tethridge> I want a hardware version without the physical keyboard
Nov 17 17:00:11 <unix_lappy> even though they've said it's likely to be on a KRZR type phone.
Nov 17 17:02:38 <streeter> t-mobile is supposed to start 3G service here on Thursday. I can't wait.
Nov 17 17:02:42 <ttuttle> Disconnect: ordered
Nov 17 17:02:55 <caseydavis> I'm ready to put some android on my htc fuze!
Nov 17 17:03:03 <Disconnect> :)
Nov 17 17:03:25 <tethridge> streeter, where is "here"?
Nov 17 17:03:40 <streeter> tethridge: Huntsville, AL
Nov 17 17:04:15 <tethridge> damn, something is wrong with tmo
Nov 17 17:04:45 <streeter> the only thing holding them up, apparently, is clearing the spectrum.
Nov 17 17:04:50 <tethridge> I'm in Raleigh, NC.  The research triangle.  Lots of tech companies here.  But does tmo have 3g?  No
Nov 17 17:05:09 <Disconnect> ttuttle: cool it credited (well, pending, but it showed up)
Nov 17 17:05:36 <ttuttle> Disconnect: yay. how much do they give you?
Nov 17 17:06:08 <Disconnect> looks like that will be $2.99
Nov 17 17:06:18 <ttuttle> Disconnect: decent.
Nov 17 17:06:26 <languish> almost enough to afford an android app
Nov 17 17:06:28 <Disconnect> yah not bad :) thanks
Nov 17 17:06:28 <languish> :|
Nov 17 17:06:43 <Disconnect> yah i was just gonna say, if i do end up doing shareware for my app remind me to gen you up a free key :)
Nov 17 17:06:56 <languish> heh
Nov 17 17:07:01 <ttuttle> Disconnect: heh
Nov 17 17:07:09 <ttuttle> Disconnect: what app?
Nov 17 17:07:12 <Disconnect> tethridge: silver spring counts as "dc" for 3g but only downtown, near discovery building and such
Nov 17 17:07:52 <Disconnect> ttuttle: finishing a decent mileage/maintenance tracker. (finishing first ver anyway) .. prolly gonna be free-with-limits (eg no export, no pretty graphs of more than the first couple fills, that sort of thing)
Nov 17 17:08:33 <ttuttle> dis	ah.
Nov 17 17:08:49 <tauno> (Sometimes it's good to live in a small country.. it's easy to cover with 3g :) It's like in every city (in your dimensions our city == your village) :)
Nov 17 17:08:52 <ttuttle> Disconnect: ah
Nov 17 17:09:19 <KNY> Disconnect, you mean like "Mileage"?
Nov 17 17:10:06 <Disconnect> KNY: yah only good
Nov 17 17:10:17 <KNY> haha
Nov 17 17:10:22 <KNY> <-- author of Mileage
Nov 17 17:10:42 * Disconnect got sidetracked into device hacking and was rather upset to see mileage appear but the apps are rather different in appearance/function so..
Nov 17 17:10:51 <KNY> yeah
Nov 17 17:10:58 <Disconnect> sorry :) but i did try it and then i was not wild about the interface..
Nov 17 17:10:59 <KNY> what are you using for charting?
Nov 17 17:11:11 <kslater> KNY: Mileage seems to switch back and forth btw landscape and portrait modes, what's that all about?
Nov 17 17:11:23 <caseydavis> have you all tried mymilemarker.com
Nov 17 17:11:29 <KNY> kslater, it's by device orientation (though that's changed in version+1)
Nov 17 17:11:44 <kslater> never thought of that
Nov 17 17:11:52 <kslater> duh
Nov 17 17:11:53 <KNY> kslater, it's now optional by device orientation or by keyboard tray open/closed
Nov 17 17:12:15 <RyeBrye> Does multitouch fall under the umbrella of the input-method framework?
Nov 17 17:13:01 <jbq> RyeBrye: no. IMF is about text input.
Nov 17 17:13:02 <falstaff_> Hello
Nov 17 17:13:31 <jbq> What you're talking about would be in the low-level view/event system.
Nov 17 17:13:32 <wastrel> i forgot my voicemail password
Nov 17 17:13:42 <KNY> Disconnect, be sure to ping me when you publish your app, would you? I'd be interested in checking it out
Nov 17 17:13:47 <Disconnect> sure
Nov 17 17:14:19 <RyeBrye> jbq - so in the low-level view / vent system is where multi-touch would have to be put - but then it could be used by something in the IMF for text input, right? (i.e. an onscreen keyboard that had a shift key that worked... etc)
Nov 17 17:14:34 <falstaff_> i've got a design problem: I've got an activity, which shows a list with data which are fetched over network. Now, this takes some time, therefor i want use a ProgressDialog. But this does not work when i implement this in onCreate (activity is not yet painted, therefor the ProgressDialog is not visible...). How can i do that?
Nov 17 17:14:35 <jbq> RyeBrye: that's my understanding.
Nov 17 17:14:47 <Disconnect> KNY: first i have to stop being distracted by the hw hacking aspect :)
Nov 17 17:15:01 <KNY> Disconnect, haha. How far along are you (with your app)?
Nov 17 17:15:03 <RyeBrye> So - is there anything on the roadmap for when multi-touch support might get put into the low-level view / event system? :)
Nov 17 17:15:16 <ttuttle> hey, what's the best version of Email right now?
Nov 17 17:15:53 <Disconnect> KNY: basic functionality, but i dropped a bunch of features for 0.1. display is a mess due to db changes but the input screens are all set now and the basic stats calcs are done.
Nov 17 17:16:14 <jbq> RyeBrye: I don't think that this is part of the Android UI guidelines, so it's not really needed by the underlying framework as far as I can tell. That's not my domain of expertise, though.
Nov 17 17:16:15 <Disconnect> ttuttle: i use k-9 but even gmail ahs been having notification errors for me ("push" showed up 9 hours later :( ..) so..
Nov 17 17:16:42 <KNY> Disconnect, ahh.
Nov 17 17:16:56 <Disconnect> master display is a mess i mean. all the sub-windows are set now.
Nov 17 17:18:07 <tauno> jbq, speaking of this - are there any app design guidelines for Android? (I mean UI)
Nov 17 17:18:42 <jbq> tauno: I've seen drafts inside Google, I don't know whether those were finalized or published.
Nov 17 17:19:44 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: you make any progress with the synaptics drivers?
Nov 17 17:19:57 <tauno> jbq, I haven't found them if they are public.. if they are not, then it would be really great if they were finalized and made public.. otherwise it'll be a mess :(
Nov 17 17:20:07 <jbq> tauno: yeah
Nov 17 17:20:35 <KNY> tauno, I've just been making my apps consistent with the stock ones
Nov 17 17:20:50 <KNY> not clones, but along the same UI themes and strategies
Nov 17 17:20:54 <Neverender1> unix_lappy: http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/
Nov 17 17:21:28 <morrildl> wow, I left IRC running all week?
Nov 17 17:21:31 <morrildl> oops
Nov 17 17:21:40 <jbq> morrildl: good luck catching up :)
Nov 17 17:21:52 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: thanks for the shout out ;-P
Nov 17 17:22:03 <jasta> my irssi process was started nov 4th
Nov 17 17:22:03 <KNY> Neverender1, whoa. Very cool.
Nov 17 17:22:09 <unix_lappy> morrildl: that's what lastlog is for :P-P
Nov 17 17:23:38 <falstaff_> Guys, I need help... When i implement the loading in onresume or oncreate, ProgressDialog is not visible... Sample code from google does not do what i want, i want create a progressdialog when i start my activity....
Nov 17 17:24:06 <jasta> falstaff_: are you blocking the main thread preventing it from showing up?
Nov 17 17:24:26 <falstaff_> jasta: no, loading is in a own thread...
Nov 17 17:25:01 <jasta> can you show me the code you used to create the progress dialog?
Nov 17 17:25:48 <falstaff_> When i call by startActivityForResult the activity which load this data and show the progressdialog, the old activity is showed the whole loading time. When he finishs loading, the activity is showed, but then, the loading dialog is not shown anymore..
Nov 17 17:26:49 <KNY> falstaff_, pastebin.ca :)
Nov 17 17:26:52 <jasta> that sounds like you most certainly are blocking the main thread
Nov 17 17:30:27 <KNY> anyone used TabHost? I'm trying (unsuccesfully) to reduce the height of the tabs
Nov 17 17:30:52 <jasta> the TabWidget has become quite ridgid in the 1.0 release
Nov 17 17:30:53 <falstaff_> im going to paste the code in a minute, ive now a null pointer exception somehow :-)
Nov 17 17:31:01 <jasta> you might have to construct your own, but im not sure
Nov 17 17:31:16 <KNY> jasta, :(
Nov 17 17:31:26 <jasta> just look at the code for TabWidget and you be the judge
Nov 17 17:31:50 <KNY> I can change the height of TabWidget, but it always allocates room for an icon, pushing the text off screen
Nov 17 17:32:46 <jasta> KNY: as i said, its quite rigid.  look at the code and decide if you need to extend or replace it.
Nov 17 17:32:47 <falstaff_> Here it is: http://www.pastebin.ca/1259434
Nov 17 17:33:05 <KNY> jasta, tanks
Nov 17 17:33:06 <KNY> thanks*
Nov 17 17:33:20 <jasta> falstaff_: lol, duh
Nov 17 17:33:25 <jasta> do you know what th.join does?
Nov 17 17:33:42 <falstaff_> yes, he waits till the thread finished
Nov 17 17:33:43 <falstaff_> hmmmmm
Nov 17 17:33:46 <falstaff_> damn :-)
Nov 17 17:33:50 <jasta> yes, which blocks the UI thread silly
Nov 17 17:33:57 <jasta> you can't do that
Nov 17 17:34:47 <KNY> heh, found a bug in the javadocs
Nov 17 17:34:49 <falstaff_> i see...
Nov 17 17:34:53 <KNY> someone forgot to close a <pre>
Nov 17 17:34:56 <jasta> falstaff_: pull down the source code to apps-for-android, and look at the Photostrema app
Nov 17 17:35:09 <jasta> in particular, look at UserTask.java, this wil help you i believe.
Nov 17 17:35:42 <jasta> or, if you'd prefer, just use Handler and post your changes to a custom ListAdapter
Nov 17 17:36:57 <jasta> there are a _LOT_ of examples of this type of behaviour in the android source tree as well
Nov 17 17:37:08 <falstaff_> Okey, the progress dialog is now visible, i do no join anymore and moved the list creation into the thread... but this gives CalledFromWrongThreadException: Only the original thread that created a view hierarchy can touch its views.
Nov 17 17:37:19 <falstaff_> And for this i've to use the handler right?
Nov 17 17:37:29 <jasta> falstaff_: you can't make UI calls from any thread other than the main one
Nov 17 17:37:46 <falstaff_> yeah, i know :-) Just tried it (once again :-D)
Nov 17 17:37:54 <jasta> you have to communicate between the main thread and the other threads.  Handlers are helpful for this.
Nov 17 17:38:05 <tauno> one option is to run it using runOnUiThread(action)
Nov 17 17:38:58 <jasta> which is just calling Handler#post
Nov 17 17:39:32 <jasta> falstaff_: looking at your code, it seems very inefficient as well
Nov 17 17:40:23 <falstaff_> jasta: this addAll thing? i know, this is not my code, i've allready changed this at another place...
Nov 17 17:40:56 <jasta> you need to be careful allocating all of your data at once like that
Nov 17 17:40:58 <jasta> and iterating over it
Nov 17 17:41:25 <falstaff_> ProgressBar works now like a charm, thanks for this!
Nov 17 17:41:47 <jasta> for large lists, ListView works best with a cursor or other type of windowed/paged backing data structure.
Nov 17 17:41:54 <jasta> and not just a giant ArrayList.
Nov 17 17:42:00 <falstaff_> Hm
Nov 17 17:42:08 <jasta> again, there are LOTS of examples of this
Nov 17 17:42:16 <jasta> for instance, the built-in Music players source is available
Nov 17 17:42:25 <falstaff_> i get the data over network, as mentioned, and corsurs are for database, or am i wrong?
Nov 17 17:42:42 <ttuttle> Android's API doesn't support multi-touch, does it?
Nov 17 17:42:45 <jasta> that would be an example of another type of paged backing data structure
Nov 17 17:42:58 <falstaff_> jasta: yes, i looked at this once, but not for this...
Nov 17 17:43:05 <jasta> falstaff_: look at the Photostream app, in particular UserTask
Nov 17 17:43:36 <KNY> jasta, this crap isn't easy to extend--everything is private
Nov 17 17:43:37 <KNY> roar
Nov 17 17:44:12 <jasta> KNY: well, i would probably just replace it completely if that is getting in your way.
Nov 17 17:44:37 <KNY> roll my own TabHost?
Nov 17 17:45:00 <tauno> just unprivate it.. simple :P
Nov 17 17:45:18 <KNY> haha
Nov 17 17:45:46 <jasta> KNY: perhaps.  i havent looked at the 1.0 code.
Nov 17 17:45:51 <unix_lappy> ttuttle: http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/
Nov 17 17:46:11 <KNY> all I need to do is replace one layout XML file--they hard code tabs to be 64dip tall
Nov 17 17:46:20 <KNY> even if there isn't an image
Nov 17 17:46:58 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: thats not api support, thats hw support
Nov 17 17:47:03 <unix_lappy> ttuttle: i'm surprised there isnt a framework out there that utilized this early on.  too bad it requires root to get working ;-(
Nov 17 17:47:26 <unix_lappy> ^^
Nov 17 17:47:48 <RyeBrye> The biggest use case I can see being actually useful would be 2 finger scrolling and 1-finger selecting for web browsing once text selection comes into play
Nov 17 17:48:10 <RyeBrye> (that might suck, come to think of it)
Nov 17 17:48:28 <RyeBrye> ok... maybe just 2-player air hockey...
Nov 17 17:48:56 <KNY> RyeBrye, it doesn't matter what use cases you can come up with for Android apps--what matters is what other devs can come up with
Nov 17 17:48:59 <Damm> i don't really see a major use/change in 2-finger scrolling on the G1... as 1 Finger does the same thing, unless you want the 2nd finger to mass highlight or an 'alt' button?
Nov 17 17:49:09 <KNY> why would the framework limit us to single touch?
Nov 17 17:49:43 <KNY> look at the iphone for example--third party developers seem to be coming up with their own use cases just fine
Nov 17 17:50:13 <jbq> Portability of such apps to single-touch devices is a concern.
Nov 17 17:50:23 <RyeBrye> The platform already supports touch screen or no touch screen, I'm not sure what the big deal of adding multi-touch screen / touch screen / non-touch screen in there matters
Nov 17 17:51:09 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I can see how portability matters but I don't see the phone using only greyscale to ensure portability to devices that aren't capable of using color...
Nov 17 17:51:11 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: well, your thinking from a hackers perspective not from a usability / sellability perspective.
Nov 17 17:51:50 <unix_lappy> if you can transition users are are used to certain gestures and usability profiles using multitouch...
Nov 17 17:52:33 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: the zoom/pan in the browser is terrible - half the time you end up clicking something trying to get the +- to appear (thats especially bad in street view)
Nov 17 17:52:40 <RyeBrye> Ok, I do think there is a case to be made for some kind of multi-touch for zooming at least in the browser - since those stupid zoom and page-zoom buttons have overlapped something I've wanted to interact with on the page a few times so far... and I would like to have a way to get rid of them
Nov 17 17:52:51 <RyeBrye> Disconnect beat me to that point :)
Nov 17 17:53:27 <andyross> The browser won't click if you move, even a tiny bit.  I found that once I internalized the rule, I don't hit links accidentally any more.
Nov 17 17:53:44 <andyross> If anything I see the opposite: I sometimes have to resort to the trackball to target tiny links.
Nov 17 17:53:53 <morrildl> The G1 panel does not support multi-touch
Nov 17 17:54:07 <RyeBrye> morrildl - you are wrong
Nov 17 17:54:11 <morrildl> There is a distinct difference between multi-touch and being able to identify two fingers
Nov 17 17:54:14 <morrildl> RyeBrye: no, I am not :)
Nov 17 17:54:28 <morrildl> Multi-touch means being able to identify taps independently
Nov 17 17:54:30 <RyeBrye> morrildl - what is the distinct difference?
Nov 17 17:54:44 <morrildl> Synaptics has had touchpads  that can distinguish between two-finger touch and one-finger touch for years
Nov 17 17:54:50 <morrildl> true multi-touch is more recent
Nov 17 17:55:06 <morrildl> If you have one finger on the pad and tap with another finger, the G1 cannot detect the second tap
Nov 17 17:55:06 <RyeBrye> morrildl - It tracks 1 finger, then when you throw on the second finger it starts tracking it - when you release the second finger it stops tracking it - I don't see your point
Nov 17 17:55:11 <RyeBrye> morrildl - you are wrong
Nov 17 17:55:24 <RyeBrye> http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/
Nov 17 17:55:34 <morrildl> Besides that, note also that the G1 was specced to only have a single-touch panel
Nov 17 17:55:41 <languish> morrildl "the G1' in hardware, or the OS? what is the limitation?
Nov 17 17:55:57 <morrildl> Even if HTC got a deal on a multi-touch panel and substituted it in, the specification is still single-touch
Nov 17 17:56:10 <languish> it's just not in android? or is the hardware not capable of it?
Nov 17 17:56:16 <andyross> I think the proper question is whether or not the hardware supports the gestures you want to implement, not a semantic discussion about the distinction between "multitouch" and "true multitouch".  I still haven't seen a good discussion about what the technical details are.
Nov 17 17:56:30 <morrildl> meaning some G1s might hypothetically have hardware that can do multi-touch (though I have no information on whether that might be true), but not all will, so it can't be relied on
Nov 17 17:56:35 <DJTachyon> languish: it appears the driver code enabling it was commented out
Nov 17 17:56:59 <morrildl> The G1 was never specified to be a multi-touch device.  Since it was th first Android device, we therefore didn't bother to build a multi-touch framework into the API
Nov 17 17:56:59 <DJTachyon> perhaps all the UI stuff wasnt coded to handle it
Nov 17 17:57:08 <languish> DJTachyon I know, i read the site :)  you came in the middle of a discussion :)
Nov 17 17:57:14 <DJTachyon> oh :P
Nov 17 17:57:27 <DJTachyon> looks like a good discussion ;)
Nov 17 17:57:33 <RyeBrye> morrildl - that's ludicrous of HTC to make that specification... I didn't ever see the specs on what HTC was planning to do with it
Nov 17 17:57:34 <falstaff_> Sorry, had a phone call
Nov 17 17:57:46 <falstaff_> Where is this Photostream app located? android.com?
Nov 17 17:58:19 <KNY> apps-for-android
Nov 17 17:58:26 <KNY> google it--it's a google code project
Nov 17 17:59:07 <RyeBrye> morrildl - I'm sure I can hold one finger down on the screen, and then tap in random locations and have it detect those second taps
Nov 17 17:59:11 <morrildl> RyeBrye: well I can't comment on why HTC did or didn't specify what they did; ask them or maybe T-Mobile, it's their device
Nov 17 17:59:21 <falstaff_> ah yeah
Nov 17 17:59:29 <RyeBrye> morrildl - I'm posting one now where I hold one finger down in the middle and then tap with a second finger in 4 different locations all while the 1st finger is held down...
Nov 17 17:59:34 <RyeBrye> http://pastebin.com/f56bf1d2a
Nov 17 18:00:12 <morrildl> RyeBrye: the key distinction is how the panel identifies the "touch radius"
Nov 17 18:00:28 <morrildl> i.e when you touch the screen your finger shmushes into a vaguely circular region
Nov 17 18:00:33 <RyeBrye> morrildl - each finger has a "width" parameter to it
Nov 17 18:00:41 <morrildl> RyeBrye: right
Nov 17 18:01:05 <languish> RyeBrye, the real issue is what he stated about htc's sourcing of parts.
Nov 17 18:01:15 <languish> *your* G1 might have a multi-touch capable panel.
Nov 17 18:01:16 <morrildl> panels on the G1 generally compute the "width" as encompassing *both* fingers
Nov 17 18:01:20 <languish> other peoples may not
Nov 17 18:01:29 <morrildl> i.e. it's a giant circle with both touch points in it
Nov 17 18:01:37 <morrildl> now, as I said, that's how it was specified
Nov 17 18:01:38 <languish> and it's one of the more disgusting little facts I've seen about this whole hooha
Nov 17 18:01:49 <morrildl> languish: ?
Nov 17 18:01:50 <DJTachyon> different panels?
Nov 17 18:01:59 <morrildl> It just got specified as single-touch
Nov 17 18:02:08 <RyeBrye> Yeah, that does make sense about HTC spec'ing out a single-touch panel
Nov 17 18:02:20 <KNY> morrildl, good point. I noticed that the "w" on every touch was exactly the same for finger one and finger two
Nov 17 18:02:21 * Disconnect suspects that since symantic is super-proud of -every- panel having multi-touch capability, the chances of finding one without it are pretty slim.
Nov 17 18:02:21 <RyeBrye> so in the future if they find a cheaper capactive touch screen element they could use that
Nov 17 18:02:25 <morrildl> We told them the OS was generally designed to work on single-touch devices, so they chose single-touch
Nov 17 18:02:52 <languish> Disconnect or they get a non synaptic panel?
Nov 17 18:03:01 <Disconnect> synaptic sorry :)
Nov 17 18:03:21 <morrildl> (by which I mean:  "since we aim to work on high end and low end devices, the UI is planned to work with both single- and multi-touch.")
Nov 17 18:03:24 <languish> it makes sense. it just sucks
Nov 17 18:03:24 <DJTachyon> imagine a Symantec panel .. ewww..
Nov 17 18:03:33 <Disconnect> heh
Nov 17 18:03:54 <languish> we'd have to uninstall the hardware :(
Nov 17 18:03:59 <DJTachyon> ol
Nov 17 18:04:12 <morrildl> KNY: exactly, that would be teh symptom
Nov 17 18:04:27 <RyeBrye> http://pastebin.com/m3d671b69
Nov 17 18:04:37 <RyeBrye> There is one where I actually vary my pressure on both fingers independently of each other
Nov 17 18:04:41 <RyeBrye> on the last one, I was just pressing lightly
Nov 17 18:05:13 <RyeBrye> Ah, but you are right - it appears the w is the same in both columns
Nov 17 18:05:16 <KNY> RyeBrye, try having it print out only if the two "w" params don't match
Nov 17 18:05:30 <falstaff_> Is this ugly? Creating an inner anonymous class in an inner anonymous class? :-)
Nov 17 18:05:48 <RyeBrye> KNY - I'd have to recompile my kernel and replace my boot.img to change how it does it - but that's an interesting thing to look into
Nov 17 18:06:00 <RyeBrye> I didn't look at what the commented-out driver code was doing too much
Nov 17 18:06:22 <KNY> hell, just pipe your output through a perl script to eliminate the dupes
Nov 17 18:06:25 <Disconnect> totally unrelated.. but wow.. banshee (desktop music app that supports g1) first release for osx is a -disaster- .. not "its a little buggy" but more like "its on fire, just try to use the bits that aren't melted".
Nov 17 18:06:37 <KNY> though I'm guessing you might as well just `cat '' > out.txt`
Nov 17 18:06:48 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: you can just throw the new module onto /system and use it from there..
Nov 17 18:07:32 * ttuttle fixes the Software section of the T-Mobile G1 article on Wikipedia, which has built up all sorts of crud as people hear rumors and then append them to the page.
Nov 17 18:07:35 <RyeBrye> morrildl - you mind if I make reference to your mentioning the HTC spec'ing out only a single-touch panel in that blog entry? I don't have to source you by name if you dont' care
Nov 17 18:07:41 <phillijw> Disconnect: does osx properly support mono?
Nov 17 18:07:49 <Disconnect> phillijw: supposedly
Nov 17 18:08:23 <morrildl> RyeBrye: I long ago learned never to say anything that I'm not comfortable being quoted on ;)
Nov 17 18:08:44 <morrildl> RyeBrye: but I do appreciate your asking :)
Nov 17 18:08:48 <morrildl> (feel free)
Nov 17 18:09:29 <KNY> stupid question, but why would I not be able to create a new TabWidget.OnTabSelectionChanged()?
Nov 17 18:10:03 <phillijw> broken keyboard
Nov 17 18:12:33 <morrildl> falstaff_: is it ugly? yes.  Is it evil? depends on what you are doing, I guess...
Nov 17 18:12:58 <morrildl> ttuttle: I seriously wish people would fix that page
Nov 17 18:13:05 <ttuttle> morrildl: done
Nov 17 18:13:08 <ttuttle> morrildl: Or at least, partly done.
Nov 17 18:13:13 <morrildl> ttuttle: by which I mean, go to town on it
Nov 17 18:13:16 <ttuttle> morrildl: I've been correcting errors for a while anonymously ;-)
Nov 17 18:13:24 <morrildl> it's kind of gross in its organization, etc.
Nov 17 18:13:27 <ttuttle> morrildl: I'm most of the 128.237.*.* edits (that's Carnegie Mellon's wifi allocation).
Nov 17 18:13:35 <ttuttle> morrildl: Also, people equate Android == G1 and put general Android stuff there.
Nov 17 18:13:43 <ttuttle> morrildl: Take a look, lemme know if it's better.
Nov 17 18:13:50 <morrildl> oh wait
Nov 17 18:13:55 <morrildl> Is there a separate page for the G1?
Nov 17 18:13:59 <ttuttle> Yeah.
Nov 17 18:14:00 <DJTachyon> tuttle: that is going to happen until another android phone comes out
Nov 17 18:14:01 <morrildl> nice
Nov 17 18:14:03 <morrildl> I didn't even know that
Nov 17 18:14:07 <ttuttle> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_G1
Nov 17 18:14:13 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: ...and I'll keep fixing it.
Nov 17 18:14:20 <DJTachyon> yeah i went nuts on it
Nov 17 18:14:39 <DJTachyon> i have so many rants about it in the past 6 months on various news sites and blogs
Nov 17 18:14:45 <ttuttle> heh
Nov 17 18:14:52 <DJTachyon> its tiring ;)
Nov 17 18:15:19 <morrildl> oh, sweet
Nov 17 18:15:24 <ttuttle> Better?
Nov 17 18:15:27 <DJTachyon> the general public doesnt care about learning any of these things I have found .. you have to put a shiney thing in front of them
Nov 17 18:15:29 * ttuttle is actually a decent writer.
Nov 17 18:15:30 <morrildl> at least someone removed the spurious list of patents
Nov 17 18:15:31 <phillijw> goComplainOnTheInternet.com
Nov 17 18:15:38 <ttuttle> morrildl: Oh, when was that there?  :-\
Nov 17 18:15:45 <morrildl> ttuttle: for years :)
Nov 17 18:15:48 <ttuttle> :(
Nov 17 18:15:55 <morrildl> I was aching to go to town on the Android entry
Nov 17 18:16:06 <RyeBrye> It would be impossible for HTC to revise their spec and say "Multitouch" even if all of their currently-shipped phones had synaptics multi-touch capable screens?
Nov 17 18:16:10 * ttuttle applies "while (!working()) { reboot(); } ".
Nov 17 18:16:11 <languish> ttuttle, The G1 offers two different sources of location information for applications such as Google Maps: a GPS receiver built-in to the chipset, and radio-tower location based on a database of mobile phone tower locations. In addition, the G1 includes a digital compass to provide absolute orientation data.
Nov 17 18:16:13 <morrildl> but I did not since it would essentially be "first party research" :)
Nov 17 18:16:24 <ttuttle> languish: Yes?
Nov 17 18:16:31 <DJTachyon> what he said ^
Nov 17 18:16:31 <DJTachyon> :P
Nov 17 18:16:36 <languish> ttuttle, might want to mention the toower assisted gps location is referred to as "agps"
Nov 17 18:16:45 <ttuttle> languish: Nonono, it doesn't do tower-assisted GPS.
Nov 17 18:16:47 <languish> err aGPS
Nov 17 18:16:50 <morrildl> RyeBrye: that would generally be correct.  Changing the hardware spec in that way would probably be most easily accomplished by calling it by a different model name
Nov 17 18:16:53 <languish> it doesn't?
Nov 17 18:16:56 <DJTachyon> oh?
Nov 17 18:17:01 <ttuttle> languish: It does "get the satellite positions from Qualcomm's server instead of waiting 12.5 minutes for the satellites to send them".
Nov 17 18:17:05 <ttuttle> languish: That's the "assisted" bit, I think.
Nov 17 18:17:06 <morrildl> languish: actually that's not accurate
Nov 17 18:17:16 <morrildl> ttuttle: G1 does NOT do that
Nov 17 18:17:17 <vol> orly?
Nov 17 18:17:20 <ttuttle> morrildl: No?  Oh.
Nov 17 18:17:24 <languish> morrildl, tell that to HTC!
Nov 17 18:17:24 <morrildl> there's no technical reason it could not, it just doesn't
Nov 17 18:17:29 <ttuttle> morrildl: So what does it do?
Nov 17 18:17:39 <DJTachyon> i thought it triangulated towers
Nov 17 18:17:39 <morrildl> ttuttle: normal GPS resolution
Nov 17 18:17:48 <languish> oh, and tell that to t-mobile too
Nov 17 18:17:50 <morrildl> DJTachyon: it does, but that is entirely separate
Nov 17 18:17:59 <DJTachyon> well right .. when GPS is turned off
Nov 17 18:18:04 <morrildl> well the problem is that there is no actual standard for "assisted GPS"
Nov 17 18:18:36 <morrildl> anyway last time I checked, it wasn't doing the "download ephemeris data from Internet instead of satellites" bit
Nov 17 18:18:41 <ttuttle> morrildl: you sure?
Nov 17 18:18:42 <morrildl> and that is what is normally meant by "aGPS"
Nov 17 18:18:58 <morrildl> ttuttle: the last time I checked was a couple months ago
Nov 17 18:19:01 <DJTachyon> so there is gps, agps, closest tower, and triangulation?
Nov 17 18:19:04 <languish> ahh, it looks like HTC updated their spec page. they removed the a from aGPS, and no longer state 32GB microSD
Nov 17 18:19:05 <morrildl> let me ask
Nov 17 18:19:14 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: No triangulation.
Nov 17 18:19:26 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: Just "what's a good guess of my position based on the towers I can see?".
Nov 17 18:19:30 <DJTachyon> not even law enforcement enabled?
Nov 17 18:19:37 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: Er, that's on the tower side.
Nov 17 18:19:39 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: The phone doesn't do that.
Nov 17 18:19:43 <DJTachyon> ah
Nov 17 18:19:46 <morrildl> Note that the cell-ID stuff cannot be used to implement aGPS anyway
Nov 17 18:20:11 <ttuttle> ooh... is GPS accessible to e911?
Nov 17 18:20:22 <DJTachyon> thats also a good question
Nov 17 18:20:27 <morrildl> what aGPS does is fetch ephemeris data out of band; the ephemeris data is information on the location of hte GPS spacecraft, and so knowing your approximate location is not really equivalent
Nov 17 18:20:42 <DJTachyon> oh interesting
Nov 17 18:21:08 <languish> yeah, agps is supposed to help populate the satellite locations for the handset faster
Nov 17 18:21:20 <languish> that's how I understood it
Nov 17 18:21:25 <morrildl> (the 70s-era GPS satellites broadcast reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally slowly.  So it's much faster to fetch ephemeris via another data channel)
Nov 17 18:21:33 <languish> tower knows where you are, you get sat postioning faster
Nov 17 18:21:38 <ttuttle> morrildl: 12.5 minutes, IIRC?
Nov 17 18:21:53 <DJTachyon> so without gps enabled, maps uses closest tower, and with gps on, agps it just speeds up gps location?
Nov 17 18:22:09 <DJTachyon> hmm that was almost a sentance
Nov 17 18:22:11 <morrildl> ttuttle: possibly, I can't recall
Nov 17 18:22:40 <vol> I was wondeering out how agps worked on the device
Nov 17 18:22:42 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: not closest tower.  all visible towers.
Nov 17 18:22:43 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: it knows what area you are likely to be in if you can see a certain set of towers
Nov 17 18:22:43 <ttuttle> (i think)
Nov 17 18:22:50 <vol> it seems like it gets the location pretty quickly sometimes, but other times takes FOREVER.
Nov 17 18:23:13 * phillijw cant wait for his g1 coming to miwalukee soon
Nov 17 18:23:20 <morrildl> vol: you need 4 spacecraft to get a fix
Nov 17 18:23:21 <languish> i think some towers are more enabled than others
Nov 17 18:23:29 <languish> morrildl 4?
Nov 17 18:23:32 <languish> not 2?
Nov 17 18:23:38 <phillijw> morrildl: alien space craft?
Nov 17 18:23:38 <KNY> ttuttle, wasn't pittsburgh supposed to have 3G?
Nov 17 18:23:42 <RyeBrye> morrildl - I updated http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/ to include your clarifying point about the single-touch spec on the G1
Nov 17 18:23:43 <vol> morrildl: I have to admit that I never thought I would see that sentance used in a serious conversation
Nov 17 18:23:51 <DJTachyon> no .. only one alien space craft, 4 gps sats ...
Nov 17 18:23:58 <languish> i understood you needed 2, and 3 for "geight"
Nov 17 18:24:01 <languish> *height"
Nov 17 18:24:04 <languish> err elevation
Nov 17 18:24:11 <morrildl> vol: So you have to 1) wait to get a signal lock on 4 different satellites, 2) wait for them each to broadcast their ephemeris data, 3) do the GPS calculation
Nov 17 18:24:40 <morrildl> if it's cloudy or if you don't have line-of-sight to 4 satellites (e.g. in the mountains or in Manhattan) then 1) can take a long time just by itself.
Nov 17 18:25:06 <morrildl> Then if by dumb luck you tune in just after the start of the ephemeris sequence, you have to wait a whole cycle for it to start over again
Nov 17 18:25:06 <DJTachyon> well i got my replacement G1 last Thurs w/ RC28 preloaded and got the RC30 update yesterday
Nov 17 18:25:24 <vol> that's another thing. I wish I had some more interesting information on what signal strengths I was getting for satellites
Nov 17 18:25:33 <vol> instead of "now you don't have gps, presto now you do"
Nov 17 18:25:43 <vol> so that I could figure out where to place my phone for good signal
Nov 17 18:25:44 <DJTachyon> im glad im close enough to a highway with streetview data in jersey to show off the compass mode
Nov 17 18:25:49 <DJTachyon> its so fun :)
Nov 17 18:25:50 <jasta> i wish i could just disable that stupid updat enotification :)
Nov 17 18:26:03 <morrildl> languish: yes, you need 4.  You could do it with 3 (you need 3 data inputs since you are solving for 3 dimensions) but only if your GPS receiver is in perfect time sync with the satellites, which never happens.  So instead you need 4 satellites to solve for time as well
Nov 17 18:26:16 <DJTachyon> jasta: not updating?
Nov 17 18:26:29 <languish> hrm
Nov 17 18:26:31 <jasta> i currently am just saying update later every time :)
Nov 17 18:26:40 <morrildl> BTW, the WikiPedia entry on GPS is really good, though really long :)
Nov 17 18:26:58 <RyeBrye> I saw a cool little animated thing somewhere once on GPS that had nice little circles overlapping... etc.
Nov 17 18:28:12 <DJTachyon> okay back to work, later all
Nov 17 18:30:43 <morrildl> RyeBrye: thanks for the clarification :)
Nov 17 18:30:54 <RyeBrye> morrildl  - np
Nov 17 18:32:24 <languish> damn. I wish I had taken screenshots of the HTC sites G1 specs back when I was looking at hardware issues. they're "corrected" the page (good), but the "corrected specs" are reduced and less specific than what they had before. *sigh* (bad)
Nov 17 18:32:36 <languish> *they've
Nov 17 18:32:44 <falstaff_> My application gets update over wifi every second. When android gets to sleep, he turns off wifi. When i wake it up again, he brings a Operation timed out exception (wifi is not yet ready to connect...) Can I somehow register a event, when wifi is connected and ready?
Nov 17 18:33:06 <jasta> falstaff_: yes, see ConnectivityManager
Nov 17 18:34:11 <jasta> morrildl: you guys should definitely produce documentation detailing Android's behaviour in response to various network conditions and events.  this is something i was hoping for long before devices came out and am genuinely surprised it still doesn't exist
Nov 17 18:34:26 <morrildl> jasta: what do you mean?
Nov 17 18:34:35 <jasta> reading the DownloadProvider code was invaluable to me once i had the opportunity.
Nov 17 18:34:51 <morrildl> jasta: do you mean what Intents get broadcast under what circumstances...?
Nov 17 18:35:12 <ttuttle> ping
Nov 17 18:35:16 <ttuttle> am I still here?
Nov 17 18:35:16 <jasta> morrildl: i mean like detailing the behaviour of the radio when it switches between EDGE and 3G, that when wi-fi connets it shuts off mobile data connections, that wifi shuts off some number of seconds after the screen turns off, the proper way to hold a wifilock, etc
Nov 17 18:35:27 <RyeBrye> languish - how long ago was it? any case the archive.org people snagged it?
Nov 17 18:35:28 <falstaff_> jasta: yeah, looked at that allready, but couldnt find an event... okey, i can wait untill  getState says its connected... do you know an implementation?
Nov 17 18:35:29 <jasta> what a good recommended connect and read timeout is, how to properly respond to timed out connections, etc
Nov 17 18:35:31 <morrildl> jasta: okay
Nov 17 18:35:38 <ttuttle> jasta: /me wrote the wifi idle/wifilock stuff.  What's your question?
Nov 17 18:35:43 <morrildl> jasta: I'll forward that along to the tech writers
Nov 17 18:36:00 <d0netsFN> $ sudo svn co http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/svn/Tuner/trunk
Nov 17 18:36:00 <d0netsFN> svn: error while loading shared libraries: libneon-gnutls.so.27: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Nov 17 18:36:02 <d0netsFN> any ideas?
Nov 17 18:36:11 <ttuttle> d0netsFN: distro?
Nov 17 18:36:18 <jasta> ttuttle: i dont have any questions now, i have discovered the answers to all of those questions myself already
Nov 17 18:36:20 <d0netsFN> 8.10
Nov 17 18:36:25 <d0netsFN> (ubuntu)
Nov 17 18:36:39 <vol> wait, why are you using sudo
Nov 17 18:36:39 <phillijw> can I install windows mobile on my G1?
Nov 17 18:36:46 <vol> phillijw: pretty sure you can't.
Nov 17 18:36:46 <ttuttle> phillijw: Why?!
Nov 17 18:36:50 <vol> nor would you want to?
Nov 17 18:36:50 <ttuttle> phillijw: Also, /me hopes not.
Nov 17 18:36:59 <phillijw> ttuttle: more of a joke but also a serious question for giggles
Nov 17 18:37:11 <d0netsFN> cause i tried without sudo and it didnt work
Nov 17 18:37:17 <d0netsFN> so i tried with just to make sure
Nov 17 18:37:24 <ttuttle> donomo: Try installing libneon?
Nov 17 18:37:54 <KNY> phillijw, as a serious response, I'm pretty sure WinMo doesn't support capacitive screens, so, no
Nov 17 18:37:56 <jasta> morrildl: it's of course possible for anyone to just do a bit of trial and error to learn all these things
Nov 17 18:38:03 <jasta> and reading android source for other apps
Nov 17 18:38:20 <morrildl> jasta: we need to flesh out the knowledge base, and this would be a good fit for that
Nov 17 18:38:32 <d0netsFN> it was
Nov 17 18:38:32 <jasta> but there's no good reason you wouldn't just neatly collect all that information into one concise faq type document.
Nov 17 18:38:34 <d0netsFN> im trying to reinstall
Nov 17 18:38:35 <d0netsFN> one sec
Nov 17 18:38:54 <jasta> it would have been really nice to have before i had my g1 too, when trial and error was not possible :)
Nov 17 18:40:51 <d0netsFN> that didnt work either
Nov 17 18:42:45 <vol> d0netsFN: hold on
Nov 17 18:42:51 <vol> are you in a directory where you need permissions to do this?
Nov 17 18:42:58 <vol> because if not, you really don't need sudo
Nov 17 18:44:04 <tauno> whoa.. hold on, so the final conclusion was that the G1 does not do aGPS? (and by aGPS I mean downloading ephemeris data from the net) and it also does not do cell-triangulation and uses just a plain GPS or maps the current cell using the same method that the gmaps j2me client does? (eg using just one cell) ?
Nov 17 18:44:06 <d0netsFN> i did it with sudo
Nov 17 18:44:28 <d0netsFN> and without
Nov 17 18:44:47 <romainguy_> tauno: it can certainly use the cell ID to get your position
Nov 17 18:45:14 <tauno> romainguy_, yes I know - and it uses just the one active cell and does no triangulation, right?
Nov 17 18:47:01 <tauno> (eg when you have gps on, then the app (at least in the j2me client) sends your lat/lon and visible cell to google and based on that info, the server itself calculates the cell-size etc so other people without gps can get a somewhat accurate position)
Nov 17 18:47:56 <vol> wait, cell meaning in this case, what?
Nov 17 18:48:01 <tauno> cellID
Nov 17 18:48:19 <vol> sorry, still lost. you don't mean phone id?
Nov 17 18:48:22 <ttuttle> Wow...
Nov 17 18:48:23 <vol> tower id?
Nov 17 18:48:33 <tauno> not tower ID, cell ID ;)
Nov 17 18:48:33 <jasta> yawn
Nov 17 18:48:36 <vol> I know little/nothing about agps : (
Nov 17 18:48:40 <ttuttle> If I play one of the surround sound channel wav files from alsa through my bluetooth headset, it reboots. :\
Nov 17 18:49:20 <vol> ttuttle: the .wav file is "Reboot", isn't it.
Nov 17 18:49:42 <ttuttle> No.
Nov 17 18:49:46 <ttuttle> It's Front_Left.wav.
Nov 17 18:49:48 <ttuttle> ;-)
Nov 17 18:50:07 <vol> (reboot)
Nov 17 18:51:23 <jasta> tauno: cell ID is basically tower ID, they just don't call it that.
Nov 17 18:52:15 <raidfive> is it possible to execute some code after the Activity UI has been successfully loaded? or do I need to fire off another thread in the onCreate() ?
Nov 17 18:52:15 <jasta> cell ID is just a way to fingerprint the towers (more specifically, the cell that the tower provides)
Nov 17 18:52:21 <tauno> jasta, I know what a cell id is:) one tower has many cells.. each broadcasting in a different direction.. and each have ther own ID.. so it's not a general tower id
Nov 17 18:53:26 <jasta> right ok.
Nov 17 18:53:37 <tauno> so it's 1 tower -> many cell ID's
Nov 17 18:54:02 <tauno> jasta, I see whe understand the same way :)
Nov 17 18:54:03 <vol> jasta: thanks
Nov 17 18:54:05 <tauno> it*
Nov 17 18:54:10 <vol> tauno too
Nov 17 18:54:11 <vol> ok
Nov 17 18:54:31 <vol> I didn't realize that different directions would be "different" for the tower
Nov 17 18:54:41 <jasta> tauno: which is different than triangulation, yes?  i understand location based on the cell id as very crudely mapping to the region the tower is serving (or of course the particular cell of the tower)
Nov 17 18:55:43 <jasta> whereas triangulation is based on computing distances to base stations (and nothing to do with the cell)
Nov 17 18:56:08 <ttuttle> vol: Well, it's cheaper than putting in more towers.
Nov 17 18:56:22 <vol> I'm sure it is : )
Nov 17 18:56:57 <tauno> jasta, basically yes
Nov 17 18:57:12 <RyeBrye> I didn't know Synaptics was part of the OHA.
Nov 17 18:59:03 <fadden> http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html
Nov 17 18:59:28 <RyeBrye> yeah, i saw that
Nov 17 19:01:35 <RyeBrye> So is TI going to release code to make it easy to rebuild their wlan driver? They put out a press release on the 22nd that was touting how heplful they are being and they described it as: "Pre-integrating the codes into the Android platform" - which means what?
Nov 17 19:02:03 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Heh.
Nov 17 19:02:12 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Corporate_doublespeak-- (unless it's from Google)
Nov 17 19:02:27 <RyeBrye> Yeah, it's definitely doublespeak... WTF are the "codes" they are "pre-integrating" ?
Nov 17 19:02:46 <raidfive> not sure if anyone replied to my previous message, client was acting up and no messages were being displayed. I don't even know if my message made it into the channel ...
Nov 17 19:02:50 <RyeBrye> Do they refer to the pre-compiled kernel module? or do they have some kind of source code they are going to drop?
Nov 17 19:03:15 * ttuttle wants to smack anyone who says "codes".
Nov 17 19:03:16 <ttuttle> It's "CODE"!
Nov 17 19:03:53 * benley haxorz the c0D3zzzz
Nov 17 19:04:00 <ttuttle> benley++
Nov 17 19:04:04 <ttuttle> benley: ohai
Nov 17 19:04:30 <RyeBrye> benley - now if only you can pre-integrate the c0d3zzz
Nov 17 19:05:08 <morrildl> ttuttle: what's even worse is "maths"
Nov 17 19:05:25 <ttuttle> morrildl: maths is okay.  It's the British variant.
Nov 17 19:05:27 <benley> maths is a cultural difference
Nov 17 19:05:33 <benley> americans call it 'math', everyone else says 'maths'
Nov 17 19:05:38 <morrildl> so is "codes" for the most part
Nov 17 19:05:44 <benley> that used to bother me but I got over it
Nov 17 19:05:44 <ttuttle> morrildl: Oh, is it really?
Nov 17 19:05:47 <wastrel> i call it "math"
Nov 17 19:05:56 <ttuttle> morrildl: I didn't know that.  I usually heard "code" from programmers, and "codes" from marketing.
Nov 17 19:05:57 <phillijw> the word for 'influence' in italian is influenza... i dont want to be of influence in italy now
Nov 17 19:06:00 <morrildl> ttuttle: I know a lot of Canadians who say "codes", but very few Americans
Nov 17 19:06:01 <languish> if it's codes, then there are codesbreakerers?
Nov 17 19:06:01 <ttuttle> phillijw: lol
Nov 17 19:06:40 <phillijw> maths is short for MATHematicS whic his kind of silly to have an S
Nov 17 19:06:41 <andyross> Brits add extra letters to everything.  Might as well be wrong in my book.
Nov 17 19:07:00 <RyeBrye> morrildl - apparently in Texas they speak of "codes" http://focus.ti.com/pr/docs/preldetail.tsp?sectionId=594&prelId=sc08143
Nov 17 19:07:23 <RyeBrye> (well, technically San Diago and DALLAS are on the byline - but the instruments are from Texas)
Nov 17 19:08:56 * ttuttle can't wait for A2DP support in Android.
Nov 17 19:09:54 <andyross> Sadly that has to come from the google folks.  The audio output stream support isn't meaningfully pluggable AFAICT; you'd need to rebuild the core libraries.
Nov 17 19:09:54 * tauno can't wait for ListViews that know how to behave in case of variable sized items :)
Nov 17 19:10:01 * languish can't wait for ttuttle to work for google
Nov 17 19:10:05 <languish> *chuckle*
Nov 17 19:10:17 * ttuttle really wants pluggable LocationProviders.
Nov 17 19:10:22 <ttuttle> languish: It may happen again this summer.
Nov 17 19:10:28 * vol can't wait to wait
Nov 17 19:10:33 <languish> ttuttle, good luck :)
Nov 17 19:10:34 <andyross> I guess you could write a userspace A2DP player, but obviously it wouldn't work with existing software.
Nov 17 19:10:38 <ttuttle> languish: Thanks ;-)
Nov 17 19:11:14 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - are the locatin providers not pluggable yet?
Nov 17 19:11:19 * Disconnect can't wait for the killer app thats gonna cause screaming and yelling for goog/tmob to open the g1 :)
Nov 17 19:11:19 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: I don't think so.
Nov 17 19:11:33 <Damm> andyross, hrm, can user space influence the bluetooth profiles?
Nov 17 19:11:49 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: They don't have WiFi positioning or IP geolocation providers yet.  I'd like to write one or both.
Nov 17 19:12:27 <Disconnect> Damm: if i'm understanding your question, userspace can but only as root. (userspace is in fact where most of the bt stuff lives, so file browsing, rfcomm/tethering, etc is all part of the userspace side.)
Nov 17 19:13:01 <Damm> Disconnect, that's kind of what I figured.
Nov 17 19:13:09 <Disconnect> but thats a case where it wouldn't be a huge problem to integrate it to android and/or do it as nonroot (daemons - mostly - run as root, but that doesn't mean the platform can't write out the configs as whatever user it wants, or none..)
Nov 17 19:13:38 <Damm> wasn't google going to release A2DP anywho?
Nov 17 19:14:04 <Disconnect> the big "omg we need root for daemons/services" thing is for ones that aren't bundled already (openvpn/vpnc/ipsec/.. for example. or any other time you want to do something google didn't think of or didn't write yet :) ..)
Nov 17 19:14:37 <Disconnect> yah but i haven't seen an eta. (not that worried personally, i have no stereo bt devices, and if i get that bored - or get one for holidays - i can always hack it in myself until the platform catches up :) ..)
Nov 17 19:15:11 <Damm> it'll be there in time.
Nov 17 19:15:18 <Damm> patience is usually a good thing right now
Nov 17 19:15:30 <Damm> G1 has alot of growing to do, and we'll see alot of changes over the next 2 years with it
Nov 17 19:15:51 <Disconnect> yah
Nov 17 19:17:30 <wastrel> g1 is a good test platform for android :]
Nov 17 19:17:43 <wastrel> will be eager to upgrade to the next thing
Nov 17 19:17:43 <RyeBrye> yeah, it's a good reference device
Nov 17 19:17:52 <languish> right
Nov 17 19:18:00 <languish> it's not a great retail market device
Nov 17 19:18:07 <languish> *sigh*
Nov 17 19:18:12 <Disconnect> languish: every time i say that i get yelled at :)
Nov 17 19:18:13 <`vip> how do i change channels with connectbot ?
Nov 17 19:18:14 <wastrel> also i bet that bacon iphone sleeve that's doing the rounds on the gadget blogs would fit the g1
Nov 17 19:18:15 <Damm> no it never was designed to be.
Nov 17 19:18:28 <Damm> `vip, touch screen
Nov 17 19:18:31 <languish> Disconnect, they're getting used to me saying it
Nov 17 19:18:35 <Damm> finger to the lft or right
Nov 17 19:18:35 <vol> `vip: depends what you're using for irc
Nov 17 19:18:37 <wastrel> languish: do you have a recommendation for a good 35mm jack adapter for g1?
Nov 17 19:18:40 <vol> wait what?
Nov 17 19:18:43 <`vip> irssi
Nov 17 19:18:46 <Damm> if your referring to connectbot screens
Nov 17 19:18:52 <Damm> if your trying to switch channels...
Nov 17 19:18:54 <vol> fingering to the left/right is a shortcut to ctrl-n ctrl-p?
Nov 17 19:18:55 <vol> oh
Nov 17 19:19:05 <vol> `vip: press the scrollwheel to simulate ctrl
Nov 17 19:19:07 <RyeBrye> Has anyone looked inside the case to see if there is enough room to dremel in a 35mm headphone jack?
Nov 17 19:19:09 <Damm> vol, no i was thinking connectbot sessions
Nov 17 19:19:09 <ttuttle> vol: no, it switches terminals, I think.
Nov 17 19:19:10 <`vip> when i do that it just shows the same channel
Nov 17 19:19:17 <languish> wastrel, whichever one you see that floats your boat. I suggest getting one with an L plug.
Nov 17 19:19:17 <Damm> double press the trackball
Nov 17 19:19:21 <Damm> and then press 1 or 2 or 3
Nov 17 19:19:27 <Damm> double trackball = escape
Nov 17 19:20:24 <wastrel> okies
Nov 17 19:20:51 <`vip> ok got it, thanks Damm
Nov 17 19:21:20 <languish> Google, please send me a better set of earphones for the G1.
Nov 17 19:21:38 <wastrel> yeah i tried them for the first time last night
Nov 17 19:21:42 <wastrel> totally don't work
Nov 17 19:21:53 <floppyears> I wonder how many people at google actually use a g1 as their day to day cellphone
Nov 17 19:22:07 <languish> wastrel, there's an volume dial on the headphones themselves.. turn it up
Nov 17 19:22:10 <wastrel> i mean they worked but they kept falling out of my ears
Nov 17 19:22:15 <languish> ah
Nov 17 19:22:18 <Disconnect> floppyears: prolly more than you'd guess from the email app, but fewer than you'd hope from the apple example :)
Nov 17 19:22:24 <Disconnect> wastrel: tape
Nov 17 19:22:31 <wastrel> need an ear upgrade yeah or some sort of fastener
Nov 17 19:22:34 <languish> wastrel, did you use the included foam pads?
Nov 17 19:22:40 <wastrel> that would make it worse they're too big
Nov 17 19:22:53 <languish> nah, they create friction,
Nov 17 19:22:53 <wastrel> imma get adapter and use my in-ear ones
Nov 17 19:22:58 <languish> so they don't fall
Nov 17 19:23:22 <KNY> what's everyone's beef with the Email app?
Nov 17 19:23:27 <wastrel> someting about delete
Nov 17 19:23:29 <languish> yeah, the adaptor annoys me
Nov 17 19:23:52 <wastrel> i need also streaming audio sources/app
Nov 17 19:23:53 <languish> KNY, besides it sending multiple incomplete messages *while composing* ?
Nov 17 19:24:23 <languish> KNY with the suggested solution being "don't put in the destination address til last"
Nov 17 19:24:24 <KNY> languish, ahh, that's what that is? I wondered why I'd get empty messages send to me :)
Nov 17 19:24:57 <KNY> yeah, when replying, sometimes it will send a blank reply to myself
Nov 17 19:25:39 <wastrel> trying to autosave drafts?
Nov 17 19:25:45 <wastrel> ah no i'm thinking the gmail app
Nov 17 19:25:50 <wastrel> i've not used the imap client much
Nov 17 19:26:36 <KNY> I guess the thing that bugs me about the email app is that it doesn't work well with Google Apps For Your Domain
Nov 17 19:26:41 <KNY> which it should just treat like gmail
Nov 17 19:26:53 <Disconnect> KNY: it doesn't send changes to the server (read, deleted) in any sort of reasonable interval, it doesn't poll when it says it will, it doesn't support copy/move messages, it doesn't support "delete these 3 messages" ...
Nov 17 19:27:13 <KNY> ah
Nov 17 19:27:24 <KNY> well, I suppose that means someone should write a better one :)
Nov 17 19:27:31 <wastrel> KNY: i registered the phone with my google apps account (per languish's recommendation)
Nov 17 19:27:37 <wastrel> so the gmail app works for my domain mail
Nov 17 19:27:52 <KNY> wasabi, yeah, but that's not my primary method of communication
Nov 17 19:27:54 <phillijw> what if you have 14 domains like myself
Nov 17 19:27:57 <Disconnect> KNY: k-9 and (sorry jasta, i forgot yours) are forks of the goog one that work better (or have different features, etc)
Nov 17 19:27:58 <KNY> phillijw, exactly
Nov 17 19:28:13 <wastrel> you have a complicated life :]
Nov 17 19:28:14 <Disconnect> KNY: the problem is the super-cramped onboard storage
Nov 17 19:28:16 <KNY> Disconnect, ahh.
Nov 17 19:28:26 <ttuttle> You guys should merge.
Nov 17 19:28:40 <Disconnect> i'd hate to have to install doubles of all the apps (k-9 cuz email sucks, spelldial cuz the dialer is annoying, etc etc)
Nov 17 19:28:41 <wastrel> i used to have a crapload of email addresses but pared down to work, home, untrusted stuff
Nov 17 19:28:43 <KNY> Disconnect, cramped? how much space do they take?
Nov 17 19:28:59 <ttuttle> What's spelldial?
Nov 17 19:29:34 <Disconnect> ttuttle: lets you t-9 dial to select contacts. (eg 8888 to search ttut and variants)
Nov 17 19:29:36 <KNY> ttuttle, http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2008/10/28/android-speed-reviews-twidroid-lolcat-builder-spelldial-budgetdroid-krystle-ii-callerid-santas-war/
Nov 17 19:29:37 <ttuttle> Ah.
Nov 17 19:29:44 <Disconnect> its sweet actually :)
Nov 17 19:29:58 <ttuttle> Disconnect: You see now why logging in as "ttuttle" somewhere on a phone with T9 sucks.
Nov 17 19:30:04 <Disconnect> hehe
Nov 17 19:30:08 <Disconnect> not my fault
Nov 17 19:30:16 <ttuttle> 8, right, 8, right, 8, 8, right, 8, right, 5, 5, 5, 3, 3.
Nov 17 19:30:21 <ttuttle> it's all the rights that suck.
Nov 17 19:30:40 <vol> that's an enormous url
Nov 17 19:30:50 <ttuttle> vol: SEO!
Nov 17 19:31:25 <Disconnect> ttuttle: t9 would be 8888853 btw. one press per letter
Nov 17 19:31:31 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Oh, yeah.
Nov 17 19:31:51 <ttuttle> Disconnect: /me meant regular multitap.
Nov 17 19:32:04 <Disconnect> yah
Nov 17 19:32:11 <vol> lha
Nov 17 19:32:13 <vol> er
Nov 17 19:32:14 <vol> ha
Nov 17 19:32:21 <floppyears> what are some must have apps in a g1 ?
Nov 17 19:32:48 <languish> porn
Nov 17 19:32:49 <KNY> well, I assume the home application is needed
Nov 17 19:32:50 <wastrel> i like the drawing one
Nov 17 19:32:51 <languish> no porn app yet
Nov 17 19:32:52 <wastrel> bluebrush
Nov 17 19:33:01 <KNY> Messaging and Contacts would be handy
Nov 17 19:33:07 <KNY> :)
Nov 17 19:33:08 <vol> floppyears: just get all of them. I don't think there are any that cost money yet
Nov 17 19:33:26 <wastrel> i love krystle ii but it doesn't save the fur preference
Nov 17 19:33:34 <wastrel> so i have to reset to the classic fur every time.
Nov 17 19:33:38 <wastrel> hrm i could just downgrade
Nov 17 19:34:15 <Disconnect> vol: its hard to get even many of them, with the storage crunch
Nov 17 19:34:26 <wastrel> i like spelldial
Nov 17 19:34:58 <tauno> MarioSimulator
Nov 17 19:35:01 <Disconnect> 10.2M	com.android.browser <-- not helping :(
Nov 17 19:35:03 <KNY> Disconnect, I have 43 MB free
Nov 17 19:35:05 <bert02> whats everyones favorite app so far on the market?
Nov 17 19:35:29 <kRutOn> tip calculator
Nov 17 19:35:34 <KNY> bert02, that's a pretty vague question. you might as well ask what the "best program ever" is
Nov 17 19:35:35 <tauno> iSkoot :)
Nov 17 19:35:53 <KNY> :)
Nov 17 19:36:01 <unix_lappy> heh, a proper tethering app, when it comes into existence would probably be mine :-P
Nov 17 19:36:21 <KNY> unix_lappy, definitely
Nov 17 19:36:26 <kristianpaul> can i run android SDK with Open JDK?
Nov 17 19:36:28 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: root it and set up rfcomm+ppp
Nov 17 19:36:29 <KNY> via bluetooth
Nov 17 19:36:50 <jasta> Disconnect: uhm, no, mine is not a fork
Nov 17 19:36:57 <jasta> and as such, it has no name,
Nov 17 19:37:07 <jasta> it is merely a set of patches to add IMAP IDLE support
Nov 17 19:37:07 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: i'm all about hackery, but I dont trust myself with root on a mobile device.
Nov 17 19:37:10 <vol> Disconnect: Honestly, I've just gone through and downloaded everything that sounded interesting.
Nov 17 19:37:24 <vol> I still have some room left. When I found myself getting low, I just got rid of some of the apps I didn't use or like
Nov 17 19:37:53 <KNY> yeah
Nov 17 19:38:04 <languish> next to the IM/gmail apps, I've been using "countdown alarm++" the most
Nov 17 19:38:04 <KNY> installing to SD will be a welcome update
Nov 17 19:38:08 <unix_lappy> unless there are some recovery measures in place i'm not aware of.
Nov 17 19:38:15 * KNY looks at Google employees
Nov 17 19:38:19 <vol> I do like the Real Programmer's Calculator
Nov 17 19:38:21 <tauno> I haven't actually found a single app that I use - I downloaded everything that looked like they might be something... and tried them.. but I haven't used them afterwards :|
Nov 17 19:38:25 <Damm> http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/10/androids_mobile.html
Nov 17 19:38:31 <Disconnect> vol: http://pastebin.ca/1259623
Nov 17 19:38:34 <vol> I've been using budgetdroid quite a bit
Nov 17 19:38:35 <kRutOn> kristianpaul: I think it has some problems with gnome accessibility, but it works fine if you disable it
Nov 17 19:38:38 <Damm> i do love reading posts with people whining about the 'connection error'
Nov 17 19:38:48 <Damm> and yet 'it must be fixed'... you run a beta device
Nov 17 19:38:59 <kristianpaul> i'll try then
Nov 17 19:39:03 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: the recovery is easy, just redo the rc30 flash-from-sd
Nov 17 19:39:03 <KNY> Disconnect, --si
Nov 17 19:39:18 <bert0> I am enjoying the connectbot
Nov 17 19:39:24 <bert0> as we speak
Nov 17 19:39:34 <KNY> ConnectBot is excellent
Nov 17 19:39:41 <ttuttle> KNY: You should toss them a few dollars then.  I did.
Nov 17 19:39:44 <vol> I am not enjoying the 3%/min of battery life that connectbot + irssi burns
Nov 17 19:39:54 <vol> : (
Nov 17 19:40:03 <KNY> ttuttle, I will as soon as I figure out how to enter "ctrl"
Nov 17 19:40:09 <Damm> vol, you didn't buy an external battery pack yet?
Nov 17 19:40:09 <bert0> it doesn't do that for me
Nov 17 19:40:16 <vol> Damm: I didn't realize they had it yet
Nov 17 19:40:16 <Damm> I get 5 days usage of connectbot now
Nov 17 19:40:17 <Disconnect> over half of /data/data is my browser cache (gee, wouldn't /cache be a better place for that?)
Nov 17 19:40:21 <Damm> it's only 50pounds
Nov 17 19:40:28 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: i wonder if bricking your G1 due to a security flaw is covered under warranty :-P
Nov 17 19:40:29 <Damm> </sarcasm>
Nov 17 19:40:31 <bert0> connectbot is probably the most efficient app on my g1
Nov 17 19:40:32 <ttuttle> KNY: Double-press trackball.
Nov 17 19:40:37 <Disconnect> KNY: hit menu->about from the connections list and it shows all the shortcuts.
Nov 17 19:40:39 <vol> Disconnect: /data/manbearpig
Nov 17 19:40:53 <KNY> interesting. I thought I looked through the controls list.
Nov 17 19:40:56 <Damm> bert0, it really is... the only problem is that the G1 doesn't really have a way to turn down the CPU power afaik.
Nov 17 19:40:57 * KNY takes another look
Nov 17 19:41:08 <Damm> so you have the cpu going full bore, and the radios trying to be on constantly
Nov 17 19:41:12 <Damm> = leaking siv
Nov 17 19:41:35 <KNY> oh and I hate that ConnectBot makes you unlock your keys all the time. Why does it do that?
Nov 17 19:41:37 <ttuttle> back
Nov 17 19:41:44 <Damm> KNY, don't give it a password
Nov 17 19:41:45 <kRutOn> I was trying to test ConnectBot on long-running connections but the Wi-Fi in the G1 seems to suck.
Nov 17 19:41:51 <kRutOn> And I don't have any T-Mo service.
Nov 17 19:41:56 <jbq> Disconnect: yes, /cache would be a better place for the browser cache (and many other kinds of caches).
Nov 17 19:41:56 <KNY> Damm, it doesn't.
Nov 17 19:41:57 <ttuttle> kRutOn: ...yeah.
Nov 17 19:42:04 <bert0> well it's to be expected I guess...I usually have a charger handy
Nov 17 19:42:07 <KNY> but I still have to go click the red lock and make it green
Nov 17 19:42:10 <Damm> KNY, using the market version?
Nov 17 19:42:15 <KNY> Damm, yes
Nov 17 19:42:18 <Damm> that's why
Nov 17 19:42:24 <Damm> ... get the latest developer release
Nov 17 19:42:30 <Disconnect> anyone know what browser/app_thumbnails is?
Nov 17 19:42:31 <Damm> code.google.com/p/connectbot
Nov 17 19:42:46 <Disconnect> other than 5 megs i want back :)
Nov 17 19:42:49 <Damm> the market is only stable releases it barely has key support
Nov 17 19:42:54 <ttuttle> Disconnect: thumbnails of web pages
Nov 17 19:42:58 <KNY> Damm, ahh.
Nov 17 19:42:59 <Damm> Disconnect, don't make me spank you.
Nov 17 19:43:12 <Disconnect> Damm: wtf?
Nov 17 19:43:19 <Disconnect> ttuttle: cool. time to make it go byebye then.
Nov 17 19:43:20 <Damm> KNY, however i have a passwordless key and works flawless.
Nov 17 19:43:25 <Damm> Disconnect, aroused? :/
Nov 17 19:43:27 <Disconnect> (shouldn't it be wiped with the cache clear? annoying)
Nov 17 19:44:11 <jbq> Disconnect: yes, it should (and yes it's annoying!)
Nov 17 19:46:01 <bert0> I wish I had a timeframe on AADP release
Nov 17 19:46:02 <jasta> what are you guys' thoughts on the built in music player?
Nov 17 19:46:35 <bert0> I can't wait to replace it with VLC
Nov 17 19:46:37 <wastrel> i'd like to be able to stream music from internet sources ;]
Nov 17 19:46:38 <unix_lappy> you guys'...classic ;-)
Nov 17 19:47:00 <Neverender1> its ok..
Nov 17 19:47:04 <Neverender1> could be better
Nov 17 19:47:43 <Disconnect> jasta: i'd like it to not go insane when i use the (htc-branded) charge/listen splitter
Nov 17 19:47:52 <Disconnect> (or even if i don't)
Nov 17 19:48:12 <wastrel> Disconnect: do you like that?  i was thinking of getting one
Nov 17 19:48:14 <jasta> how do you mean?  is that a bug in the music app?
Nov 17 19:48:19 <bert0> I wish it had bluetooth
Nov 17 19:48:28 <Disconnect> wastrel: other than it going insane its fine. but that means i don't use it much.
Nov 17 19:48:39 <unix_lappy> define: insane
Nov 17 19:48:46 <jasta> i mean from a usability standpoint by the way.
Nov 17 19:48:53 <jasta> look and feel
Nov 17 19:49:14 <unix_lappy> jasta: when the iTouch / iPhone is the gold standard?
Nov 17 19:49:14 <Disconnect> jasta: yah it behaves erratically - every 30-90 seconds (occasionally more frequently) it jumps back to the main "just opened" page and begins playing a random track. it loses history (so you can't rwd to the track it skipped) and dumps out of any playlist it was previously in
Nov 17 19:49:45 <jasta> Disconnect: that's probably not a bug in the MediaPlayer, but rather your adapter sending goofy messages to the phone
Nov 17 19:49:52 <wastrel> hrm i should just get a bluetooth thingy instead of the adapter
Nov 17 19:50:12 <jasta> unix_lappy: sure, i am just curious what you all think
Nov 17 19:50:14 <Disconnect> htc branded adapter, and what message is "shit on the floor and cry"? cuz that command certainly isn't in the gui :)
Nov 17 19:50:21 <wastrel> but you can't play music over the bluetooth earpiece?
Nov 17 19:51:01 <jasta> Disconnect: there are a lot of commands that those devices can send to ehd evice, including open main screen, rewind song, set random, etc.
Nov 17 19:51:10 <jasta> that the adapters can send i mean
Nov 17 19:51:20 <morrildl> Disconnect: that is highly anomalous.  We've tested with those things fairly extensively.  My guess is that it's a defective adapter
Nov 17 19:51:38 <jasta> anyway, does anyone have opinions on the look and feel of the app?
Nov 17 19:51:51 <Neverender1> jasta: its not ugly
Nov 17 19:51:54 <bert0> It's missing the bluetooth button
Nov 17 19:51:56 <Neverender1> but its not pretty either
Nov 17 19:52:00 <morrildl> jasta: you mean the built-in player?  I actually like it
Nov 17 19:52:05 <Disconnect> morrildl:  tried it with the standard right-angle adapter as well, youtube was fine but music player had the same issues. not sure of that adapter branding tho, so..
Nov 17 19:52:11 <jasta> morrildl: can you elaborate?
Nov 17 19:52:19 <jasta> Neverender1: what would you like to see improved?
Nov 17 19:52:24 <floppyears> I hate that built in player. Why use white boxy icons in a black background ?
Nov 17 19:52:29 <morrildl> jasta: but then I find the iTunes UI obnoxious, so I may not be the best judge
Nov 17 19:52:49 <jasta> the reason i ask is because certain aspects of it i like and have absorbed into my app.  i'm hoping i didn't go too far or whatever.
Nov 17 19:52:58 <jasta> morrildl: what about it don't you like?
Nov 17 19:52:59 <morrildl> jasta: I find the green color scheme a little too "Matrix"
Nov 17 19:53:02 <floppyears> jasta: got screenshots of your app ?
Nov 17 19:53:10 <jasta> floppyears: only older ones.
Nov 17 19:53:11 <unix_lappy> jasta: i find the progress bar a little too obtrusive.
Nov 17 19:53:14 <morrildl> jasta: but other than that I like that you can start at the top and find what you are looking for.
Nov 17 19:53:28 <morrildl> jasta: there are probably some ways to improve the way it uses the ListView for the albums
Nov 17 19:53:44 <jasta> i am certainly not taking the ExpandableListView
Nov 17 19:53:52 <jasta> i can't believe they did that for the artist/album list
Nov 17 19:53:53 <Disconnect> there were a couple of things i disliked, i'll mess with it again this evening and make notes.
Nov 17 19:54:08 <bert0> Are there skins available for the built in music player? how about for your app
Nov 17 19:54:14 <morrildl> jasta: the only thing that I really dislike about the Music app is how hard it can be to get back to the playback screen
Nov 17 19:54:35 <jasta> morrildl: really?  because that i am doing the same as them currently
Nov 17 19:54:48 <morrildl> jasta: specifically, I don't like that the behavior is different if you select the Notification vs. if you go to Home and launch from icon
Nov 17 19:54:49 <jasta> the main way to get back is either with the notification or with a menu entry on each screen
Nov 17 19:55:22 <morrildl> actually I misspoke
Nov 17 19:55:28 <jasta> morrildl: hmm, that is a fair complaint, and one that could be fixed actually
Nov 17 19:55:39 <morrildl> What I meant is that I dislike how hard it can be to get *out of* the playback screen sometimes
Nov 17 19:55:40 <jasta> you could have the launcher open conditionally, if playing, go to player, if not, go to home
Nov 17 19:55:54 <morrildl> i.e. if you go Notification->Playback, and hit back, you end up at Home
Nov 17 19:56:00 <jasta> ahh, ok.  i fixed that in my app.  the reason back doesn't work right is because they set no task affinity
Nov 17 19:56:03 <jasta> whereas i do not do that
Nov 17 19:56:10 <morrildl> but if you launch from Home while playing you get Playback and if you hit Back it goes to the album list
Nov 17 19:56:15 <jasta> so if you get into the player screen from the notification or wherever, back just gets you out
Nov 17 19:56:31 <morrildl> jasta: yeah.
Nov 17 19:56:36 <jasta> thats just the task affinity
Nov 17 19:56:44 <jasta> which i didnt copy :)
Nov 17 19:56:46 <bert0> skins?
Nov 17 19:57:16 <jasta> bert0: i do not intend to support skins.  it is not a good fit for mobile devices.
Nov 17 19:57:16 <floppyears> jasta: what does your app do ?
Nov 17 19:57:28 <jasta> floppyears: http://five.googlecode.com, the screenshots are old, but you should still get the idea of what it does.
Nov 17 19:57:42 <unix_lappy> would be interesting if not extraneous to see the skin adapt to the album cover's color scheme.
Nov 17 19:57:53 <unix_lappy> sort of like that adaptive wordpress photo theme.
Nov 17 19:58:15 <jasta> morrildl: i tend to like quite a few things about it and have copied it certainly more than the iphone
Nov 17 19:58:16 * bert0 likes skins
Nov 17 19:58:23 <jasta> i think functioanlly the iphone/ipod touch interface is not that great actually
Nov 17 19:58:44 <morrildl> jasta: yes, like I said on the whole I like it.  I hate the way the iPhone did it.  I still say that the best music-player UI died with the clickwheel
Nov 17 19:58:59 <jasta> though i have made my app some measure prettier than the built in music app, which i think made a lot of poor choices for simple things like padding and such
Nov 17 19:59:22 <wastrel> maybe it supports different resolutions better :]
Nov 17 19:59:35 <jasta> and the music app clutters with too much info.  like when you select an album it shows the name of the artist and album on each row
Nov 17 19:59:47 <jasta> which i dont do
Nov 17 19:59:53 <Neverender1> what about an equalizer?
Nov 17 20:00:04 <jasta> morrildl: i was mostly just looking to copy the basic work flow though, which i have done for the most part now in HEAD ;)
Nov 17 20:00:14 <jasta> Neverender1: Android makes that impractical/impossible
Nov 17 20:00:21 <bert0> It runs via linux...
Nov 17 20:00:25 <bert0> I like it
Nov 17 20:00:53 <jasta> morrildl: can you clarify whether the images are creative commons or similar btw?
Nov 17 20:01:00 <floppyears> what about making useful things with metadata
Nov 17 20:01:02 <jasta> because i have stolen quite a few from the music player and other android apps
Nov 17 20:01:17 <jasta> floppyears: can you be more specific please?
Nov 17 20:01:20 <floppyears> like: playing songs that I've played a lot recently, or songs that I haven't played in a while, etc
Nov 17 20:01:29 <jasta> oh, i intend to have auto playlists like that
Nov 17 20:01:34 <jasta> mostly using last.fm data to compute
Nov 17 20:01:44 <floppyears> jasta: if you can implement some of the karam rio metadata stuff that it had, it would be awesome
Nov 17 20:01:48 <jasta> but my project is not to a point where features like that are a priority
Nov 17 20:02:21 <jasta> floppyears: would you mind posting this request to my issue list in some measure of detail?  i am interested in what my users think...
Nov 17 20:02:31 <floppyears> jasta: will do
Nov 17 20:02:35 * floppyears adds it to his todo list
Nov 17 20:02:40 <mikey|> sweeet, my irc app is working :D
Nov 17 20:02:44 <ttuttle> mikey|: Nice.
Nov 17 20:02:53 <mikey|> ^ thats the emulator
Nov 17 20:03:13 <morrildl> jasta: you mean the Music app icons?
Nov 17 20:03:17 <Neverender1> jasta: for your app or android as a whole?
Nov 17 20:03:30 <languish> jasta, all I want to know about your app is...
Nov 17 20:03:33 <jasta> morrildl: yes, icons throughout the app.
Nov 17 20:03:33 <languish> ... can it cook? I mean.. really well? When I come home after work, will it have a nice variety of mouth watering dishes waiting for me to consume?
Nov 17 20:03:55 <morrildl> jasta: they will be covered under Apache 2.0, which should generally be a superset of CC
Nov 17 20:03:59 <jasta> Neverender1: hmm?
Nov 17 20:04:01 <morrildl> jasta: meaning, more permissive
Nov 17 20:04:11 <Neverender1> jasta: about the equalizer
Nov 17 20:04:23 <Neverender1> jasta: five is great btw
Nov 17 20:04:24 <jasta> morrildl: excellent.  i have taken liberally from the artwork in android which i think is much better than having none :)
Nov 17 20:04:52 <jasta> Neverender1: ahh, Android doesn't expose enough to create or control an equalizer
Nov 17 20:04:59 <jasta> or doing things like crossfading
Nov 17 20:05:32 <jasta> actually, android exposes basically only what you see in the MediaPlayer and AudioManager interfaces.
Nov 17 20:06:10 <bert0> I can see how skins are not practical for your project.  how about being able to control the colors of the foreground and backgroud?
Nov 17 20:06:26 <jasta> bert0: perhaps, but certainly not for a 1.0 release
Nov 17 20:06:32 <Neverender1> well as it is, listening to music isnt very fun for me on my g1
Nov 17 20:06:39 <Neverender1> highs are too.. high
Nov 17 20:07:07 <bert0> There are no high end mini usb headphones are there?
Nov 17 20:07:11 <jasta> i have been happy with the output power of the G1.  i merely set the music player volume to maximum and use my stereos equalizer
Nov 17 20:08:02 <Neverender1> well my headphones didnt come with an equalizer :)
Nov 17 20:08:02 <jasta> i have a brand new stereo in my car (which i bought in response to getting the G1 and thus my app) and i hooked it up to my extremely high end system at my house and it sounded great
Nov 17 20:08:13 <jasta> even though i had to use my analog to digital convertor to hook it into my system at home
Nov 17 20:08:33 <jasta> Neverender1: oh, well, headphones aren't going to sound proper anyway :)
Nov 17 20:08:54 <jasta> you're asking a mobile phone to be your amp in that case, and you're surprised when it sucks at it :)
Nov 17 20:09:27 <jasta> still, it would be nice to have some control over this, i just dont think that the driver even supports it
Nov 17 20:10:18 <jasta> morrildl: do you have any suggestions on how to handle visual feedback of "buffering"?
Nov 17 20:10:24 <Neverender1> jasta: true. these are pretty crappy headphones anyway
Nov 17 20:10:25 <jasta> perhaps i should look at the imeem app
Nov 17 20:11:03 <jasta> morrildl: because of the mediaplayer's deficiencies, my app currently just shows a SeekBar with secondary progress indicating download progress and primary playback position
Nov 17 20:11:10 <androoid> I signed up for api key for mapview and I have the persmissions in manifest, etc.... but when I load the mapview it is still empty..
Nov 17 20:11:26 <jasta> but for the initial buffering, it takes sometimes a couple seconds before you can even see the seocndary progress moving behind the thumb
Nov 17 20:11:39 <jasta> i can imagine users new to five getting frustrated by this lack of feedback
Nov 17 20:12:04 <morrildl> jasta: why is it called Five anyway?
Nov 17 20:12:22 <jasta> i thought about kind of fading out the entire player UI saying "buffering..." when it first opens and the song is not in cache.  that effect would disappear when onPrepared is called...
Nov 17 20:12:27 <jasta> what do you think?
Nov 17 20:13:21 <jasta> morrildl: http://www.mopo.ca/uploaded_images/johnny-5-729691.jpg
Nov 17 20:13:22 <jasta> :)
Nov 17 20:14:14 <morrildl> ahh yes I now dimly remember hearing about that previously
Nov 17 20:14:22 <morrildl> I still say Wall-E ripped off Johnny Five so hard
Nov 17 20:16:01 <vol> oh cmon
Nov 17 20:16:05 <vol> the entire MOVIE was an homage
Nov 17 20:16:22 <vol> I mean he made the apple bootup sound
Nov 17 20:16:28 <benley> >>>>DDDDONGGGG<<<<
Nov 17 20:16:37 * benley <3 that sound when used as homage
Nov 17 20:19:51 <phillijw> homoage
Nov 17 20:23:06 <romainguy_> tauno: what were the complaints you wanted to voice ealier?
Nov 17 20:23:19 <languish> ut oh
Nov 17 20:27:28 <mikey|> *cough*
Nov 17 20:27:53 <languish> lozenge?
Nov 17 20:28:12 <languish> honey & lemon flavored. they're good.
Nov 17 20:32:50 <tripps> so any reason why updates for market applications aren't shown on the my downloads or individual application screens? I have to go to the market and compare version #'s manually. seems kinda clunky IMO.
Nov 17 20:33:30 <jasta> tripps: versioning is not currently supported in the market.  we all sincerely hope it is coming SOON :)
Nov 17 20:34:05 * mikey| is quite surprised there is no irc app for android yet
Nov 17 20:34:47 <tripps> jasta, yeah it would be very cool for sure. of course notifications of when updates are available would be cool too. just kinda surprised a simple version check "update available" wasn't shown when looking at my downloads.
Nov 17 20:34:50 <Disconnect> mikey|: connectbot + irssi :)
Nov 17 20:34:55 <languish> mikey|, it's a beta, http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk
Nov 17 20:35:07 <languish> or what Disconnect said
Nov 17 20:35:18 <languish> (no it's not my beta)
Nov 17 20:35:33 <languish> I'm waiting for michaelnovakjr's client
Nov 17 20:36:16 <Disconnect> http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=69893&discussionID=490348&sik=1226954133695&trk=ug_qa_q&goback=.ana_69893_1226954133695_1 hmm. wonder how goog feels about this. (sorry for the ugly linkedin url)
Nov 17 20:36:28 <Disconnect> http://androidin.org/?p=35 better
Nov 17 20:36:38 * michaelnovakjr raises his eyebrow
Nov 17 20:36:51 <romainguy_> Disconnect: what's wrong with the JavaPosse?
Nov 17 20:36:54 <languish> ^_^
Nov 17 20:37:42 <jasta> mikey|: hiya :)
Nov 17 20:37:48 <Disconnect> romainguy_: ?
Nov 17 20:37:56 <romainguy_> Disconnect: your link, it just goes to the JavaPosse group
Nov 17 20:38:02 <Disconnect> oh. bad link then.
Nov 17 20:38:14 <Disconnect> the group id must be profile-specific. annoying.
Nov 17 20:38:23 <mikey|> heh, that app started an register/quit loop on the server :s
Nov 17 20:38:41 <Disconnect> the second link works. ("Androidin Organization". that seems a lot worse than and* or *droid. and its full of their IP (marketplace, gmail, gmaps..) .. and its for reflashing hacked phones.)
Nov 17 20:38:59 <mikey|> languish, Disconnect, i'm writing my own irc app for android, was testing it here a few mins ago
Nov 17 20:39:21 <michaelnovakjr> mikey|: yea me too
Nov 17 20:39:32 <Disconnect> mikey|: yah i want, if it doesn't destroy battery and works with dircproxy
Nov 17 20:39:51 <michaelnovakjr> i wrote a lighter irc library to not kill battery :)
Nov 17 20:40:00 <romainguy_> Disconnect: all I can say is they do a crappy job, long strings are clipped: http://androidin.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dsc01666.jpg :))
Nov 17 20:40:05 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 17 20:40:15 <mikey|> it hasnt actually got that far yet, the parser is a bit dodgy, as is the window management
Nov 17 20:40:36 <michaelnovakjr> mine will be ready this week
Nov 17 20:40:45 <mikey|> nice
Nov 17 20:41:15 <mikey|> how to manage channels was a headache for me.
Nov 17 20:41:28 <michaelnovakjr> was actually pretty easy :)
Nov 17 20:41:32 <mikey|> tried tabs, was difficult to work with, then I moved to ViewFlipper.
Nov 17 20:41:37 <mikey|> what did you use?
Nov 17 20:42:00 <michaelnovakjr> conversation list..... i don't have it updating multiple views
Nov 17 20:42:19 <mikey|> i use viewflipper to set up windows for each chan/priv msg window
Nov 17 20:42:21 <michaelnovakjr> it only updates the current view UI.... when the user switches it updates with the other messages
Nov 17 20:42:32 <mikey|> it directs messages to each window
Nov 17 20:42:43 <mikey|> so it's always being updated
Nov 17 20:42:47 <unix_lappy> michaelnovakjr: url to screenshots?
Nov 17 20:42:56 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i didn't do that.... i don't want to be updating the ui when the user doesn't have it active
Nov 17 20:43:08 <michaelnovakjr> unix_lappy: i'll have all that setup towards the end of the week
Nov 17 20:44:40 <vol> Sigh. SIGSTOP in __futex_wait. bt shows that as frame 0, frame 1 as pthread_cond_timedwait. Cannot actually see where this happened, because the program has already unloaded.
Nov 17 20:44:49 * vol reads up on multithreaded debugging
Nov 17 20:45:52 <andyross> SIGSTOP is only ever delivered from other processes (typically a shell parent) AFAIK.  It's not a fault from within the application, nor is it typically fatal.
Nov 17 20:46:27 <andyross> Or rather: nor is it ever fatal -- it's one of the two signals you can't register a handler for.
Nov 17 20:49:25 <vol> well, that's as much info as I'm getting.
Nov 17 20:49:36 <Disconnect> sigstop might have come from the platform..
Nov 17 20:49:41 <vol> #0 __futex_wait ( ) at bionic/libc/arch-arm/bionic/atomics_arm.S:150
Nov 17 20:49:41 <vol> #1 0xafe0e500 in pthread_cond_timedwait (cond=0x240356, mutex=Cannot access memory at address 0xbec78544) at bionic/libc/bionic/pthread.c:1151
Nov 17 20:49:44 <vol> Cannot access memory at address 0xbec78564
Nov 17 20:49:53 <fadden> vol: "info threads"
Nov 17 20:49:53 <vol> there's the stacktrace (hooray)
Nov 17 20:50:09 <vol> 1 thread, at __futex_wait
Nov 17 20:50:13 <vol> it's already freed everything else
Nov 17 20:50:19 <vol> it doesn't even show the dalvik process running
Nov 17 20:50:25 <vol> (well, that one in particular)
Nov 17 20:50:40 <vol> I tried breaking on pthread_cond_timedwait, but it just blew past... : (
Nov 17 20:51:08 <fadden> That's strange.  I thought the binder worker threads were marked as "daemon", which means they should still be sitting around.
Nov 17 20:51:19 <fadden> But if "ps" doesn't show it, then your debugging a ghost.
Nov 17 20:51:24 <fadden> s/your/you're/
Nov 17 20:51:24 <infobot> fadden meant: But if "ps" doesn't show it, then you're debugging a ghost.
Nov 17 20:51:46 <Disconnect> jesus that thing is annoying
Nov 17 20:51:55 <fadden>  /ignore
Nov 17 20:52:05 <Disconnect> s/that thing/infobot/
Nov 17 20:52:06 <infobot> Disconnect meant: jesus infobot is annoying
Nov 17 20:52:12 <Disconnect> s/infobot/shut up already/
Nov 17 20:52:25 <fadden> Disconnect: it doesn't modify your modified version
Nov 17 20:52:29 <Disconnect> yah
Nov 17 20:52:35 <Disconnect> s/yah/shut up already/
Nov 17 20:52:37 <infobot> Disconnect meant: shut up already
Nov 17 20:52:46 <KNY> haha
Nov 17 20:55:30 <tripps> jasta, looks like OI update is a market app that finds updates for installed apps. cool!
Nov 17 20:56:57 <vol> ... yeah
Nov 17 20:57:02 <vol> anyway, I'm debugging a ghost
Nov 17 20:57:45 <vol> any idea why the breakpoint didn't get stopped on? If the library isn't compiled with debugging info, I should still be able to break there, right?
Nov 17 20:58:10 <fadden> The ways of the wily gdb are subtle and mysterious.
Nov 17 20:58:24 <fadden> Which is a long way of saying "I dunno".
Nov 17 20:58:35 <fadden> Was there some event you wanted to stop on?
Nov 17 21:08:37 <andyross> vol: Granted you sometimes encounter weird edge cases when doing embedded work.  That said, in my experience, almost 100% of the time the answer to questions like "Why didn't the breakpoint trigger?" is "Because the code didn't actually execute.".  Take a look at your assumptions and maybe add some logging.
Nov 17 21:19:03 <KNY> if my app uses OI Update and someone doesn't have it installed, it won't cause problems, right?
Nov 17 21:19:15 <KNY> it just would not get auto-updates?
Nov 17 21:19:41 <Disconnect> it might catch fire
Nov 17 21:20:27 <Disconnect> since its an extra line in the manifest. they overloaded the magic perm.BRICK entry, so if its installed it checks for updaets, but if its not installed it bricks the device. brilliant way to drive installations, actually..
Nov 17 21:20:27 <vol> andyross: sigh, you're probably right.
Nov 17 21:20:30 <vol> thanks
Nov 17 21:21:10 <KNY> Disconnect, good, should teach those stupid users a lesson.
Nov 17 21:21:51 <vol> :<
Nov 17 21:21:52 <vol> like me
Nov 17 21:21:59 * vol installed something with the BRICK permission to see what it did
Nov 17 21:22:05 * vol did not brick his phone
Nov 17 21:23:10 <KNY> what does it do?
Nov 17 21:24:47 <vol> demanded every single permission it could possibly find
Nov 17 21:24:56 <vol> which I didn't realize at first because I did adb install stupidly
Nov 17 21:25:01 <Disconnect> heh
Nov 17 21:25:05 <vol> I did an install via browser later
Nov 17 21:25:09 <vol> which pointed that out
Nov 17 21:25:10 <Disconnect> yah adb should give a way to prompt :(
Nov 17 21:25:16 <vol> which convinced me that having it on there may not be smart
Nov 17 21:26:05 <Disconnect> has anyone grepped out the code to see what it does (if anything)?
Nov 17 21:30:14 <androoid> can someone help me with mapview
Nov 17 21:30:29 <androoid> I signed up for api key for mapview and I have the persmissions in manifest, etc.... but when I load the mapview it is still empty..
Nov 17 21:34:16 <ttuttle> WTF?!
Nov 17 21:34:23 <ttuttle> My phone won't let me call anyone.
Nov 17 21:35:18 <jmo> ttuttle: pay your phone bill
Nov 17 21:35:29 <ttuttle> jmo: :P
Nov 17 21:35:36 <fadden> Can you call your phone?
Nov 17 21:35:52 <vol> ttuttle: who did you piss off at T-Mobile?
Nov 17 21:36:01 <vol> can you call 611? :P
Nov 17 21:36:07 <ttuttle> Oh, I'm sorry...
Nov 17 21:36:18 <ttuttle> It just decided to wait a few minutes before placing the call.
Nov 17 21:36:25 * ttuttle thinks the Intent got stuck somewhere in the series of tubes.
Nov 17 21:36:37 <vol> you needed to send the lotto ball to flush it
Nov 17 21:36:46 <ttuttle> vol: Nobody... maybe someone at AT&T though ;)
Nov 17 21:43:37 <androoid> oooh the debug key works
Nov 17 21:44:07 <androoid> if i just change the key to my release key, then it will work?
Nov 17 21:44:17 <andyross> There's a debug ... key?  And here I've been staring at code all day.
Nov 17 21:44:28 <andyross> Oh, that kind of key :)
Nov 17 21:45:42 <androoid> i was banging my head against the wall for the last 3 hours on something so basic
Nov 17 21:57:50 <falstaff_> can i start an activity where the starting activity really waits for the end of the other?
Nov 17 21:59:17 <vol> falstaff_: as opposed to
Nov 17 22:01:00 <falstaff_> when i call startActivityForResult in onCreate, he goes through onCreate frist, then through onResume, and then starts the activity
Nov 17 22:01:29 <falstaff_> but i would like he starts the activity and when it is finished, he resumes in onCreate (like normal method call...)
Nov 17 22:01:53 <vol> So when you call Activity B with activity A
Nov 17 22:02:01 <vol> activity B is calling onCreate then onResume
Nov 17 22:02:05 <vol> right?
Nov 17 22:02:13 <vol> or is Activity A starting another instance of Activity A?
Nov 17 22:02:26 <vol> OOH, I see what you mean
Nov 17 22:02:36 <vol> you want activity A to call onCreate, then onResume, THEN call startActivityForResult
Nov 17 22:03:00 <vol> then you're going to have to do that. Give it a reason to call startActivityForResult after onResume finishes
Nov 17 22:04:26 <falstaff_> I want to call Activity B out of onCreate of Activity A
Nov 17 22:05:19 <falstaff_> But when i call startActivityForResult(... ActivityB..) he first go throu the rest of onCreate  of activity a, then through onRestart of Activity A, and then he starts activity b
Nov 17 22:05:43 <romainguy_> because startActivityForResult() is not a synchronous call
Nov 17 22:06:11 <falstaff_> yes, but is there a way to start an activity synchronous?
Nov 17 22:06:16 <romainguy_> no
Nov 17 22:06:23 <falstaff_> hm ok
Nov 17 22:06:29 <romainguy_> the real question is why are you starting another activity in onCreate()?
Nov 17 22:06:42 <falstaff_> Its about showing the settings activity if there are no settings defined...
Nov 17 22:08:09 <falstaff_> onCreate of the main activity is the very first method which is called in my app right?
Nov 17 22:09:28 <jasta> falstaff_: possibly, not definitely.
Nov 17 22:09:36 <jasta> for instance, a broadcastreceiver might fire first
Nov 17 22:09:42 <jasta> or your service might start first or whatever
Nov 17 22:10:02 <jasta> in other words, do not put app-level initialization code in any activity's onCreate.  create an Application class for that.
Nov 17 22:10:12 <jasta> see packages/apps/Email for an example.
Nov 17 22:14:12 <mikey|> jasta: are all the default android apps written in java using the API?
Nov 17 22:15:10 <romainguy_> mikey|: yes
Nov 17 22:15:19 <mikey|> nice
Nov 17 22:15:26 <vol> not to say they don't have a little help in some places
Nov 17 22:15:44 <vol> *cough libwebcore cough*
Nov 17 22:15:58 <romainguy_> vol: and that's why you have WebView... :)
Nov 17 22:16:05 <vol> :3
Nov 17 22:32:10 <RyeBrye> is the speech recognition a private API?
Nov 17 22:41:02 <RyeBrye> interesting. Can any app register an "android_secret_code" ?
Nov 17 22:43:36 <romainguy_> yes
Nov 17 22:43:49 <romainguy_> that lets you intercept *#*#CODE#*#* numbers from the dialer
Nov 17 22:44:15 <RyeBrye> Yeah, the practicality of that is questionable - but I suppose I could find a cool way to use it and make my friends think I'm hacking into the network or something nutty ;)
Nov 17 22:44:43 <mikey|> secret code?
Nov 17 22:45:04 <RyeBrye> it's in the manifest for some apps - like *#*#INFO*#*# will get your phone info screen
Nov 17 22:45:17 <RyeBrye> (You set it as the digits, not the alpha chars)
Nov 17 22:45:21 <mikey|> oh i see
Nov 17 22:45:39 <mikey|> link me to the doc please
Nov 17 22:46:42 <RyeBrye> mikey| - if it's a "secret code" how horribly unappropriate would it be to have documentation about it?
Nov 17 22:46:45 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 17 22:46:50 <mikey|> heh
Nov 17 22:47:13 <mikey|> at least a link to an example manifest in the repo
Nov 17 22:49:41 <SplasPood> Heh, so has anyone yet developed an IM client and a twitter client that don't suck?
Nov 17 22:49:56 <RyeBrye> I think twitdroid is ok
Nov 17 22:50:01 <`vip> Twidroid is ok
Nov 17 22:50:03 <SplasPood> twidroid ya mean?
Nov 17 22:50:04 <`vip> and Trak is ok
Nov 17 22:50:06 <SplasPood> yea its the best I found
Nov 17 22:50:09 <SplasPood> still crashes like woah
Nov 17 22:50:15 <`vip> www.trak.fr
Nov 17 22:50:21 <SplasPood> seems to be related to flaky network coverage at the time it tries to do something
Nov 17 22:51:10 <RyeBrye> If google would release the specs on how to send the audio to the server and how to get a redirect back for the search results page, I would think it would take about 15 seconds to write that "Voice search" app on android
Nov 17 22:52:06 <danfuzz> blort
Nov 17 22:52:24 <RyeBrye> infobot blort
Nov 17 22:52:58 * danfuzz is not a bot
Nov 17 22:53:02 <Neverender1> no blorting
Nov 17 22:53:10 <danfuzz> says who?
Nov 17 22:53:11 <RyeBrye> I know you arent :) I was wanting infobot to tell me what blort meants :)
Nov 17 22:53:18 <RyeBrye> s/meants/means/
Nov 17 22:53:19 <infobot> RyeBrye meant: I know you arent :) I was wanting infobot to tell me what blort means :)
Nov 17 22:53:28 <Neverender1> says me
Nov 17 22:53:30 <RyeBrye> infobot thanks, where were you when I needed you?
Nov 17 22:53:30 <infobot> RyeBrye: de rien
Nov 17 22:53:39 <danfuzz> hrmph
Nov 17 22:54:20 * danfuzz generally uses it as an otherwise contentless greeting, in the context of irc
Nov 17 22:54:52 <Neverender1> i noticed that
Nov 17 22:54:54 <Neverender1> blort
Nov 17 22:55:04 <RyeBrye> ah
Nov 17 22:55:08 <RyeBrye> blort
Nov 17 22:55:38 <danfuzz> it's also my favorite quasi-standard metasyntactic variable
Nov 17 22:55:40 <RyeBrye> infobot "AAAAAAACEEEEIIIIDNOOOOO OUUUUYDsaaaaaaaceeeeiiiidnooooo ouuuuydy"
Nov 17 22:56:31 <danfuzz> my life will be complete if someday it eclipses foo and bar in popularity
Nov 17 22:56:33 <RyeBrye> does that translate to "I said no you ..." ?
Nov 17 22:57:03 <danfuzz> but enough about me
Nov 17 22:57:25 <falstaff_> Hello, i get an exception: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: View not attached to window manager
Nov 17 22:57:39 <blau> im working on todolist support, that doesnt suck, for google calendnar
Nov 17 22:57:48 <falstaff_> this happens when i change from landscape to portrait or visa verca while loading an activity
Nov 17 22:57:49 <fadden> cd dalvik ; find . -type f | xargs grep -i blort | wc -l
Nov 17 22:57:56 <fadden> --> 1590
Nov 17 22:58:02 <falstaff_> any idea?
Nov 17 22:58:04 <danfuzz> hehe
Nov 17 22:58:09 <romainguy_> falstaff_: you're probably doing something really bad with your views :)
Nov 17 22:58:13 <danfuzz> mostly in test code, right?
Nov 17 22:58:24 * RyeBrye is sad that there is no hidden message in line 601 of RecognizerEngine.java - it really is just a mapping of latin-1 to ascii :(
Nov 17 22:58:25 <fadden> Almost entirely.
Nov 17 22:58:34 <falstaff_> that could be :-)
Nov 17 22:59:17 <danfuzz> so, hoew many foos and bars, by comparison?
Nov 17 22:59:26 <danfuzz> s/hoew/how/
Nov 17 22:59:26 <infobot> danfuzz meant: so, how many foos and bars, by comparison?
Nov 17 22:59:47 <falstaff_> what i do is setcontentview inside oncreate and then run a thread in oncreate too. when i change landscape to protrait while the thread was running, the exception happens
Nov 17 23:00:07 <fadden> A quick check suggests "blort" wins.
Nov 17 23:00:16 <blau> the views all die and get recreated whe you change modes
Nov 17 23:00:21 <blau> or something to that effect
Nov 17 23:00:30 <blau> so you have to update the view that the thread points too
Nov 17 23:00:32 <danfuzz> how about in android code as a whole?
Nov 17 23:01:08 <fadden> I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. :-)
Nov 17 23:01:11 <romainguy_> falstaff_: apparently your thread is touching Views which is a very very bad thing to do
Nov 17 23:01:15 <danfuzz> durn
Nov 17 23:01:22 * danfuzz was feeling lazy
Nov 17 23:01:31 <romainguy_> falstaff_: so 1. this thread should not interact with Views directly 2. this thread should probably be destroy in onDestroy()
Nov 17 23:01:40 <falstaff_> thread does this;
Nov 17 23:01:41 <falstaff_> runOnUiThread(new Runnable(){
Nov 17 23:01:42 <falstaff_> 						// Sets Album data to the UI...
Nov 17 23:01:42 <falstaff_> 						public void run() {
Nov 17 23:01:42 <falstaff_> 							ArrayAdapter<String> artistsAdapter = new ArrayAdapter<String>(ArtistsActivity.this, android.R.layout.simple_list_item_1, items);
Nov 17 23:01:42 <falstaff_> 							setListAdapter(artistsAdapter);
Nov 17 23:01:44 <falstaff_> 						}
Nov 17 23:01:46 <falstaff_> 					});
Nov 17 23:02:10 <KNY> whoa
Nov 17 23:02:14 <KNY> pastebin.ca, mate
Nov 17 23:02:20 <falstaff_> yeah i know
Nov 17 23:02:27 <sfuentes> tisk, tisk
Nov 17 23:02:30 <falstaff_> 8 lines was on the edge :-)
Nov 17 23:03:08 <KNY> if it's more than two, make a pastebin
Nov 17 23:03:20 <falstaff_> KNY: ok, next time...
Nov 17 23:03:43 <falstaff_> as you can see, I just call setListAdapter... but this is Activity related, isn't it?
Nov 17 23:04:45 <vol> ugh, pastebin.ca
Nov 17 23:04:46 <vol> slow city
Nov 17 23:04:48 <vol> just pastebin.com :P
Nov 17 23:04:50 <vol> or privatepaste, even
Nov 17 23:05:25 <falstaff_> http://pastebin.ca/1259805
Nov 17 23:05:30 <falstaff_> the whole method... any idea?
Nov 17 23:13:15 <romainguy_> yes
Nov 17 23:13:18 <romainguy_> destroy the thread in onDestroy
Nov 17 23:13:26 <romainguy_> or at least set a flag asking it to not touch the UI anymore
Nov 17 23:20:09 <falstaff_> onDestroy of the activity?
Nov 17 23:20:31 <falstaff_> the thread is only valid inside oncreate
Nov 17 23:21:00 <falstaff_> and the method run ends, the thread should end, or is this wrong?
Nov 17 23:21:17 <sfuentes> so if i had a mod rc30 does that mean i have to reflash my phone everytime a new mod update is released?
Nov 17 23:23:14 <Neverender1> yes sir
Nov 17 23:24:06 <RyeBrye> sfuentes - who knows how often that will be though
Nov 17 23:26:21 <falstaff_> ok i see the prblem
Nov 17 23:26:29 <falstaff_> its when i dismiss the dialog
Nov 17 23:26:51 <falstaff_> but i've no idea how to solve that
Nov 17 23:26:57 <falstaff_> i've gona look at that tomorrow
Nov 17 23:26:58 <falstaff_> cya
Nov 17 23:28:42 <RyeBrye> Where in the source should I look to understand how low level events get translated and sent off to the normal apps?
Nov 17 23:28:50 <RyeBrye> i.e. keypresses, screen touches... etc
Nov 17 23:29:45 <romainguy_> RyeBrye: WindowManager and ViewRoot
Nov 17 23:29:56 <RyeBrye> thanks
Nov 17 23:29:57 <romainguy_> under that, I don't know
Nov 17 23:30:21 <RyeBrye> romainguy_ - so those are the start in java land - right?
Nov 17 23:30:27 <romainguy_> correct
Nov 17 23:31:01 * RyeBrye imagines a secret depot like that train station those Harry potter kids take to get to Hogwarts where events go from the system into API land
Nov 17 23:32:53 <unix_lappy> you know your a father of little un's when ^^
Nov 17 23:33:13 <blau> hi
Nov 17 23:33:14 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 17 23:37:57 <synalx> greetings all
Nov 17 23:38:13 <DJTachyon_> o/
Nov 17 23:38:53 <synalx> whats up?
Nov 17 23:39:13 <synalx> hmm connectbot and irssi are fighting
Nov 17 23:39:44 <synalx> my terminal on my desktop does this too though, when i'm running through screen
Nov 17 23:41:15 <sfuentes> synalx: there is no irc client for android, right?
Nov 17 23:41:44 <synalx> none currently. i am ssh'd to my linux server
Nov 17 23:45:15 <blau> theres a few in betas
Nov 17 23:45:33 <synalx> nothing in the market though
Nov 17 23:47:41 <synalx> so is there an eta on bluetooth in the sdk yet?
Nov 17 23:57:34 <an_dev1> can anybody tell me what type of image files android supports
Nov 17 23:58:19 <andyross> png, jpeg and gif definitely.  Also there's a parser for a custom "rle565" format in the bootloader, but that's not exactly "support" I guess.
Nov 17 23:59:16 <an_dev1> thanks andyross
Nov 17 23:59:27 <an_dev1> i just wanted to make sure for the gif
Nov 17 23:59:38 <an_dev1> thanks for your response
Nov 17 23:59:46 <andyross> It's hard to ship something called a browser if it can't read gifs. :)
Nov 18 00:00:55 <Damm> sure it is
Nov 18 00:01:00 <Damm> it's called evolution
Nov 18 00:01:15 <Damm> there are those that would say who the heck cares about gifs anymore
Nov 18 00:01:46 <wastrel> evolution is a mail client
Nov 18 00:02:08 <andyross> The point wasn't to defend GIF89a as a file format.  It was just to point out that even in 2008 huge chunks of the web are using gifs even for new stuff.
Nov 18 00:02:29 <Damm> andyross, and there is no such thing as animated jpegs
Nov 18 00:05:01 <spikebike> there is an animated PNG I believe
Nov 18 00:05:53 <Damm> spikebike, right but PNG support in Internet Exploder is still pathetic
Nov 18 00:05:58 <Damm> we won't even mention SVG support in IE
Nov 18 00:06:03 <wastrel> ie is bad
Nov 18 00:06:12 <wastrel> animated svg is coooool
Nov 18 00:13:53 <lgbr> I'm using a verizon phone on windows mobile. It's kinda sucky and I'm considering switching. T-Mobile G1 a good idea or no, considering I'd no longer be contract-free?
Nov 18 00:14:48 <`vip> i like android over winmo
Nov 18 00:14:56 <`vip> i did the same thing, left winmo for android
Nov 18 00:14:57 <`vip> it's faster
Nov 18 00:15:21 <`vip> what do you use your phone for mostly
Nov 18 00:15:32 <`vip> why'd you choose winmo over lets say an ENv or something
Nov 18 00:18:04 <lgbr> `vip: I chose winmo because of price and because of applications available (android beats it hands down on applications, I know). I don't get to use data because verizon has no data plans. I guess my concern is the contract.
Nov 18 00:18:25 <spikebike> "android beats it hands down on applications"?  It does?  already?
Nov 18 00:18:40 <lgbr> spikebike: yes
Nov 18 00:18:44 <spikebike> I thought winmo has zillions of programs
Nov 18 00:19:03 <lgbr> well, that's true. But a lot of them don't do any good without data
Nov 18 00:19:06 <spikebike> skype, SIP compatible voip, spreadsheets, word docs, etc.
Nov 18 00:19:34 <`vip> vzw doesnt have data plans ?
Nov 18 00:19:45 <spikebike> android seems mostly tip calculators, and related silly stuff
Nov 18 00:19:45 <lgbr> `vip: they're roughly $40/month
Nov 18 00:20:28 <donomo> with <ListPreference android:key="record"... what value goes in PREFS_NAME for getSharedPreferences(PREFS_NAME, 0); so i can get at that preference
Nov 18 00:21:26 <`vip> ah lgbr ... well i pay 35 for G1plan
Nov 18 00:21:39 <`vip> unlim txt/pic/data :/
Nov 18 00:22:07 <lgbr> I'm looking at the $25er
Nov 18 00:44:05 <romainguy_> http://www.intomobile.com/2008/11/17/adobe-brings-flash-to-t-mobile-g1-android-and-adobe-flash-together-at-last.html
Nov 18 00:45:20 * andyross looks at his spinning firefox instance and wonders if that's entirely a good thing...
Nov 18 00:45:22 <sfuentes> woohooo!
Nov 18 00:45:24 <herriojr> what does pdu stand for in reference to an sms?
Nov 18 00:47:31 <Damm> romainguy_, yeah... engadget had a wonderful post about it that didn't link the video or article or source
Nov 18 00:47:34 <Damm> :(
Nov 18 00:47:38 <gambler> funny I was thinking that android could be a stealth competitor to Flash
Nov 18 00:47:52 <romainguy_> I'm bummed
Nov 18 00:47:55 <romainguy_> I had a pass for MAX
Nov 18 00:47:58 <romainguy_> I should have gone
Nov 18 00:48:07 <gambler> meh, Im just waiting for Processing to be ported over
Nov 18 00:48:23 <sfuentes> romainguy: when will it be available?
Nov 18 00:49:19 <romainguy_> Flash? I don't know, read the article :)
Nov 18 00:49:49 <Damm> sfuentes, barely alpha
Nov 18 00:54:42 <sfuentes> at least its a start
Nov 18 00:55:00 <sfuentes> we got a headstart over iphone :)
Nov 18 00:57:36 <Leeds> herriojr: packet data unit, or something along those lines - it's essentially the 'binary format' of an SMS
Nov 18 01:05:30 <elad> could you make a background service to listen for key presses to take screen shots?
Nov 18 01:05:42 <romainguy_> you cannot take screenshots
Nov 18 01:05:46 <Disconnect> sure, except according to goog there is no way to do screenshots
Nov 18 01:05:51 <romainguy_> and you cannot listen for key events that are not in your window
Nov 18 01:05:54 <elad> i see
Nov 18 01:06:08 <sfuentes> need python for dalvik
Nov 18 01:06:28 <jasta> romainguy_: and thank god for that :)
Nov 18 01:06:35 <romainguy_> :)
Nov 18 01:11:35 <gambler> jasta, I figured out why it wasnt working for me yesterday
Nov 18 01:11:49 <gambler> I added my LinearLayout to a TableRow
Nov 18 01:12:04 <gambler> From what Ive seen you cant do that
Nov 18 01:12:09 <jasta> you can add LinearLayouts to a TableRow
Nov 18 01:13:36 <gambler> hmmm
Nov 18 01:14:39 <gambler> In my current code, Adding the LinearLayout to the TableLayout works, but adding it to a tableRow then->Layout doesnt
Nov 18 01:15:01 <jasta> you are not supposed to add anything but TableRows to a TableLayout
Nov 18 01:15:56 <jasta> your problem likely remains your misuse of layout parameters
Nov 18 01:16:13 <Maxpower57> someone needs to make an IRC client for android
Nov 18 01:16:26 <gambler> yeah it must be
Nov 18 01:18:33 <romainguy_> jasta: that's not true
Nov 18 01:18:42 <romainguy_> jasta: you can add children that are not TableRows
Nov 18 01:18:47 <romainguy_> the API demos even show that
Nov 18 01:19:03 <jasta> what is the effect?  just like a tablerow with stretch all columns?
Nov 18 01:19:03 <romainguy_> fwiw, a TableRow is a LinearLayout anyway
Nov 18 01:19:11 <jasta> or, span across all columns
Nov 18 01:19:31 <jasta> regardless, you can still have LinearLayouts as children of <TableRow>
Nov 18 01:19:42 <romainguy_> yes
Nov 18 01:20:42 <gambler> yeah i read that in the doco. ...why though would tablelayout.addView(linearlayout) work but tablerow.addView(linearLayout) tablelayout.addView(tablerow) cause me so much grief
Nov 18 01:20:48 <waldo> So okay everyone.. there is now a SIP (VOIP) client up for Android.  It compiles but has a problem with the configuration file not being found.  http://www.hsc.com/resourceCenter/resource.aspx
Nov 18 01:21:05 <waldo> also comes with STUN
Nov 18 01:21:35 <waldo> builds though w/eclipse.
Nov 18 01:21:52 <gambler> waldo there is another one too. the problem atm is you cant directly record audio afaik
Nov 18 01:21:59 <waldo> really...?
Nov 18 01:22:02 <spikebike> er
Nov 18 01:22:08 <spikebike> there's a voice recorder
Nov 18 01:22:18 <spikebike> it seems to record voice just fine
Nov 18 01:22:19 <waldo> Isn't there some program that takes audio and blinks colored lights.. plus the voice recorder
Nov 18 01:22:45 <spikebike> there is a fft lib that blinks lights but doesn't actually record
Nov 18 01:22:54 <spikebike> or do so in response to audio
Nov 18 01:23:59 <waldo> oh crap got it to accept the configuration!
Nov 18 01:24:01 <waldo> wonder if this will work
Nov 18 01:24:31 <gambler> spikebike, I dont think it does real-time processing
Nov 18 01:24:53 <spikebike> right
Nov 18 01:24:58 <spikebike> but there is a voice recorder
Nov 18 01:25:04 <spikebike> that writes voice to a sd card
Nov 18 01:25:56 <gambler> sigh. this was about VOIP
Nov 18 01:26:35 <gambler> I think the current way the best you could do would be like walkie talkies
Nov 18 01:27:20 <sfuentes> is it possible to capture the phonenumber of a call that comes in as it rings but before its picked up?
Nov 18 01:27:56 <waldo> i got it trying to dial...
Nov 18 01:28:00 <waldo> but I don't think it is
Nov 18 01:28:17 <waldo> problem is I have my phone dialing w/my sip so no number to dial..
Nov 18 01:29:00 <waldo> it said it was registering bu I have no idea if it did or not
Nov 18 01:29:16 <gambler> speaking of spans, why cant you set the span through the API ? (Am I missing it in the docs?)
Nov 18 01:36:37 <skbohra> how much space and time does it take to compile android?
Nov 18 01:37:27 <waldo> depends on your computer.. ive heard from 1 to 8 hours
Nov 18 01:37:32 <waldo> This thing isn't dialoing out
Nov 18 01:37:34 <waldo> dialing
Nov 18 01:45:55 <herriojr> has anyone found a way to get around the fact that you can't do port-directed sms?
Nov 18 01:47:14 <Leeds> sfuentes: that should be possible - there's a broadcast intent in the docs for "incoming call"
Nov 18 01:47:19 <skbohra> what is gperf?
Nov 18 01:47:47 <skbohra> i got error while compling : gperf: Command not found!
Nov 18 01:49:43 <Leeds> GNU 'gperf' generates perfect hash functions.
Nov 18 01:49:44 <sfuentes> Leeds: broadcast intent ... thank u Leeds
Nov 18 01:49:46 <Leeds> apparently :-)
Nov 18 01:50:05 <Leeds> broadcast intents remind me strongly of Palm launch codes - in a good way
Nov 18 01:50:15 <skbohra> i need that for android
Nov 18 01:50:26 <skbohra> got it!
Nov 18 02:01:23 <skbohra> help me
Nov 18 02:01:24 <skbohra> [out/target/product/generic/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libwebcore_intermediates/CSSGrammar.o] Error 1
Nov 18 02:01:39 <skbohra> what to do of this error
Nov 18 02:03:23 <unix_infidel> i have emulator.lnk in %path% setup, but i still have to spell out the .lnk part. is there anyway to simply invoke the emulator shortcut without the extension?
Nov 18 02:03:57 <waldo> update for anyone who cares.  SIPdroid doesn't save your configuration properly.  Which is where having root comes in.  I manually edited the xml configuration files to the correct values but it stil is having problems registering.
Nov 18 02:04:05 <waldo> fooling around with the settings a bit...
Nov 18 02:04:21 <lgbr> I'm doomed. I just ordered a G1
Nov 18 02:04:46 <skbohra> help me
Nov 18 02:04:49 <gambler> unix_infidel, that sounds suspiciously like a windows question. and you are unix_infidel.
Nov 18 02:05:02 <Leeds> skbohra: you do nothing - that's a useless error message
Nov 18 02:05:16 <unix_infidel> gambler: heh, 1) it's satire. 2) suspiciously indeed.
Nov 18 02:05:29 <skbohra> Leeds: but compiling stopped
Nov 18 02:05:43 <Leeds> you're going to need to find the actual error
Nov 18 02:07:06 <skbohra> Leeds: seems like something wrong with CSSGrammar.cpp
Nov 18 02:07:44 <gambler> skbohra, probably a deps issue.
Nov 18 02:07:52 <Leeds> good start... *what* is wrong with it?
Nov 18 02:08:53 <skbohra> Leeds: PropertyNames.c:214: error: expected ',' or ';' before '{' token
Nov 18 02:10:12 <Leeds> hmm... that doesn't sound like an error you'd expect to get with code which other people can compile... the first thing which comes to mind, similar to what gambler said, is an include problem
Nov 18 02:16:00 <skbohra> Leeds: no solutions..
Nov 18 02:16:23 <Leeds> report a bug...
Nov 18 02:17:08 <eldenz> can anyone tell me how i write a comment on slashdot as child of the news item?
Nov 18 02:17:15 <eldenz> looking for 5mins already (not exaggerating)
Nov 18 02:17:22 <eldenz> i'm logged in
Nov 18 02:17:57 <Leeds> er, you hit the 'Reply' link under the story?
Nov 18 02:18:10 <eldenz> aaaah lol
Nov 18 02:18:15 <eldenz> it's a submit button though
Nov 18 02:18:36 <eldenz> i was looking on the left side... where all the other 'Reply to This' button were :x
Nov 18 02:18:37 <Leeds> it's a link on my screen
Nov 18 02:18:39 <eldenz> thanks
Nov 18 02:20:25 <skbohra> Leeds: it is a reported issue
Nov 18 02:20:33 <waldo> crap sipdroid will not register.
Nov 18 02:23:34 <d03boy> is sipdroid a program to judge alcohol content/
Nov 18 02:23:36 <skbohra> Leeds: they are suggesting a make clean
Nov 18 02:29:30 <waldo> sipdroid is a SIP phone.  A VOIP phone.  Same technology that Vonage uses basically
Nov 18 02:34:06 <ttuttle> s/Vonage/most VoIP providers/;
Nov 18 02:51:05 <Andomic> Any Irc apps yet for droid?
Nov 18 02:53:14 <waldo> offtopic-- anyone think I'd hurt a bluetooth headset meant for .5a by charging it with a 2a usb charger?
Nov 18 02:53:46 <waldo> I know it's four times the amperage but...
Nov 18 02:53:46 <Disconnect> no
Nov 18 02:53:53 <waldo> same voltage
Nov 18 02:53:56 <Disconnect> its a max
Nov 18 02:53:56 <waldo> 5v I think
Nov 18 02:54:01 <waldo> disconnect what do you mean
Nov 18 02:54:06 <waldo> .5 not 5
Nov 18 02:54:19 <andyross> The amp rating is how much it can supply.  Electrical loads aren't like fois gras, you can't force feed. :)
Nov 18 02:54:29 <Disconnect> it will give up to 2 amps. it won't cram 2 amps down if its not requested.
Nov 18 02:54:35 <waldo> but I want it's liver to taste buttery!
Nov 18 02:54:42 <waldo> Disconnect: ah I see
Nov 18 02:55:28 <waldo> so no danger in using my gps charger (and my g1 charger now too) and not have to get a whole new car charger just for the headset?  If so, I love my dead gay bluetooth handset
Nov 18 02:55:34 <waldo> headset
Nov 18 02:55:59 <waldo> its liver, not it's-- I hate when I mess up the grammar.
Nov 18 02:56:11 <herriojr> does the android.permission.INSTALL_PACKAGES not work?  I have it listed in my manifest, yet it doesn't work
Nov 18 02:58:05 <spikebike> the danger is in using a device designed to draw more than the charger is designed to provide
Nov 18 02:58:26 <herriojr> it throws a security exception saying I need the INSTALL_PACKAGES permission, which of course, I have
Nov 18 02:59:08 <Damm> spikebike, the G1 isn't that much of a battery pig
Nov 18 02:59:19 <waldo> spikebike: i would think the opposite would overheat the charger.. ie, it's supplying 2a but the device is only taking .5....
Nov 18 02:59:22 <Damm> i'm at 75% and i had 30minutes of connectbot over 3G, and several phonecalls
Nov 18 02:59:33 <waldo> or in the case of the g1.. it takes 1a but hte charger supplies 2
Nov 18 02:59:35 <Damm> ahh
Nov 18 02:59:49 <Damm> waldo, i'm guessing there's something cutting it down inside
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 18 02:59:56 2008