**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 21 02:59:57 2008 Nov 21 03:00:24 I'm a lot more sort of than you, I suspect Nov 21 03:00:26 lol prolly Nov 21 03:06:49 sigh. exact same db. mdb.update(TABLE, args, "_id = " + id, null) .. error code 14 (thats not as helpful as it could be.) any hints? ERROR/AndroidRuntime(18159): android.database.sqlite.SQLiteException: error code 14 Nov 21 03:07:04 works fine in sim, not on device :( Nov 21 03:10:03 I'd guess it's not errno 14, because that's EFAULT Nov 21 03:11:49 #define SQLITE_CANTOPEN 14 /* Unable to open the database file */ Nov 21 03:13:10 sounds more useful, yes :-) Nov 21 03:13:33 that makes no sense. it was open to fetch the data, and on the emu it works fine. Nov 21 03:27:53 why would it work in the emu and not on the device? (other than because everything does :) ..) Nov 21 03:28:08 permissions? Nov 21 03:38:00 oooh crap. i betcha thats it. copied the db in... doh Nov 21 03:38:28 hmm. its world-read world-write but.. Nov 21 03:39:42 damn. what id is app_80? Nov 21 03:39:43 no chown :( Nov 21 03:41:11 you copied it in rather than creating it on the device? Nov 21 03:41:12 anyone know of a good way to download your voicemail into an MP3? Nov 21 03:41:44 imported a ton of data and copied it in. it works on the emu (not sure why..) but not on the device. Nov 21 03:42:03 even tho its world-writable Nov 21 03:43:15 Anyone else speculate that the full Bluetooth API is withheld from us to sell more htc accessories? Nov 21 03:43:15 ..no? Nov 21 03:43:15 nope Nov 21 03:43:19 actually, I did have a question there - does Android use ALSA? Nov 21 03:43:20 just not done? Nov 21 03:43:20 i don't believe so but its easy to find out. lemme check. Nov 21 03:43:21 bert0, exactly Nov 21 03:43:32 ..looks like a big no. no /proc/asound, no alsa modules. Nov 21 03:43:33 if i was bored i'd check the config.gz but.. Nov 21 03:44:42 bert0: given the state of .. well.. most everything, it -really- seems like "not done" is the right answer.. Nov 21 03:44:42 just thinking about A2DP support Nov 21 03:44:45 what's the line - never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by product cycles and lack of engineering resources? Nov 21 03:45:20 * Disconnect usually ends it "explained with some guy and his brilliant idea on a napkin" but maybe thats just too much time with android recently :) Nov 21 03:45:34 That speculation just keeps popping up in my mind when I go to buy a 1/8 inch adapter Nov 21 03:50:12 damn. perms fixed, still crashes. i'll argue with it in the AM. Nov 21 03:50:13 About that power manager app, yesterday I speculated that it uses more battery than it saves, and today I venture to say that it works well. Nov 21 03:50:22 where's a power manager app? Nov 21 03:50:26 on marketplace? Nov 21 03:50:31 yea Nov 21 03:51:31 the icon looks like a mug of beer Nov 21 03:51:41 except its a battery Nov 21 03:51:54 does it poll the device? Nov 21 03:52:12 looking @ wake locks? cpu looad? Nov 21 03:52:29 mikechan: not sure what you mean by that Nov 21 03:53:19 has anyone gotten root with rc30 Nov 21 03:53:57 here's the link for power manager though http://nettogo.net/powermanager Nov 21 03:54:40 I think there's a modified rc30 that you can load that has root Nov 21 03:55:23 dgilmore: short answer: no, as far as I know - if you're already on r30, you're screwed until it gets rooted again Nov 21 03:55:52 yeah there's rumors of a get root method Nov 21 03:55:56 how does the power app work Nov 21 03:56:01 hopefully it will surface soon Nov 21 03:56:03 is what I was getting @ Nov 21 03:58:07 how do u save images u get from mms? Nov 21 03:58:37 mikechan: basicly it turns off certain things like wifi, or bluetooth when they are not in use, or when the battery is at < 30% Nov 21 03:58:39 is there a way to transfer/backup txt messages? Nov 21 03:58:58 its a shame it took me 3wks to realize I like my windows mobile phone better. :( Nov 21 03:59:23 yea, I miss the neverending phantom alarms sometimes too Nov 21 03:59:42 and the way that it would just freeze sometimes Nov 21 04:00:07 i miss not being able to reply to recruiters with my email Nov 21 04:00:16 i miss not being able to backup my txt messages Nov 21 04:00:28 I miss having to pay for any app worth using Nov 21 04:01:00 bert0: you will, once the app store goes commercial Nov 21 04:01:14 er, market Nov 21 04:01:14 i miss not having the ability to edit and create office docs Nov 21 04:01:15 btw my texts were backed up automatically on my sim Nov 21 04:01:37 i don't have enuff space on my sim to back up my txts Nov 21 04:01:44 especially those with pics Nov 21 04:01:49 Leeds: im on 30 Nov 21 04:02:09 dgilmore: you're SOL then, for now Nov 21 04:02:14 Its a real bummer that I can develope apps in a non-micro$oft environment Nov 21 04:02:27 Leeds: thanks anyway Nov 21 04:03:08 PoohbaLT did you really come to the android channel to talk to us about how much more you like your wince device? Nov 21 04:03:30 i guess it was a real bummer that u could devel on a microsoft env Nov 21 04:03:31 bert0: they are called 'trolls' Nov 21 04:03:41 i came to get solutions to my problems Nov 21 04:03:49 but instead you gave me none Nov 21 04:04:03 PoohbaLT: you're an early adopter... not all the problems have solutions yet, but they will Nov 21 04:04:26 i completely understand that and i knew that going in Nov 21 04:04:46 I didn't think i wouldn't be able to send attachments via email which is the biggest issue that I'm having Nov 21 04:05:14 you want to do something productive? assuming you're not going to contribute code - which you could do - you could put together a wishlist, maintain it, etc. Nov 21 04:05:17 until i've realized how many txt msgs i have that i need to save as i keep copies of almost everything Nov 21 04:06:04 when I first heard about T-Mobile coming out with this I had planned on it. But then I got a job and didn't/don't have the time for it Nov 21 04:06:38 i spend too much time as it is looking at code for work. I don't want to do it on the little spare time I have. Nov 21 04:07:13 well, then all people are going to be able to tell you is "it's being worked on, there is no ETA" for most issues Nov 21 04:07:24 i knew there would be a lot to wait for. I just didn't think I'd have to wait for things that were already common with windows mobile and bb. But that is bc I thought this phone was to be a replacement for those devices Nov 21 04:07:46 it's not like nobody cares, and it's not that we're ignoring the issues, but there are product and engineering priorities Nov 21 04:08:01 also, it's not like I should be talking on behalf of anyone but me :-) Nov 21 04:08:10 i thought when it came out it would have the basic "professional" and common "play" features. Nov 21 04:08:24 lol. true. u really shouldn't. they may get upset with u Nov 21 04:09:08 there have already been a couple of updates since it shipped... there will be more Nov 21 04:09:20 but had i known i would have waited or returned the phone sooner. to not have to pay for it. I was really shocked when someone told me the attachment issue was a t-mobile restriction/requirement Nov 21 04:09:34 Leeds: did you resurrect your G1? Nov 21 04:09:37 who told you that? I've never heard that Nov 21 04:09:39 kRutOn: not yet Nov 21 04:09:54 Leeds: aiya cham la Nov 21 04:10:07 yeah. and since the last. i've been having less internet access and apps keep freezing (txt msg and email) Nov 21 04:10:35 I believe i first heard it in here so I called T-Mobile to complain and they confirmed Nov 21 04:10:48 they said if enuff people asked for it they may make it a feature Nov 21 04:10:54 yo yo Nov 21 04:11:09 so I came in here and I asked everyone to call in and to submit a request online for the feature Nov 21 04:11:19 how much is the current android consulting rate per hour in US? Nov 21 04:11:26 just wondering.. Nov 21 04:11:37 free/hr Nov 21 04:11:46 lol Nov 21 04:11:51 I doubt there's a market yet Nov 21 04:11:56 free sounds good to me Nov 21 04:11:59 Leeds: there is Nov 21 04:12:00 I'll hire ya! :) Nov 21 04:12:19 muthu_: not a competitive one with going rates, I think Nov 21 04:12:24 PoohbaLT: I have a job for you then! Nov 21 04:12:32 aw, lost Nov 21 04:12:43 Leeds: its getting started Nov 21 04:13:04 if you look at the forums.. there's some offers already Nov 21 04:13:31 which forums? Nov 21 04:13:40 android-developers Nov 21 04:13:45 ah Nov 21 04:14:19 Hey guys, my wife's G1... when the head phones are plugged in, and the phone is shaken (accelerometer), the defaukt "Music" app starts up.. it doesn't happen when the headphones are not plugged in. I can't find an option to disable this. Any ideas? Nov 21 04:14:32 *default Nov 21 04:15:06 interesting Nov 21 04:15:18 does it happen when she has it plugged into the charger and shakes it too? Nov 21 04:15:37 hmm Nov 21 04:15:40 will try Nov 21 04:16:05 I'd say that shaking the device causes the connection to get lost just a tiny bit, and that the software doesn't properly debounce it. Nov 21 04:16:07 *not that I have an answer* just curious as to if it's something with the jack Nov 21 04:16:37 G1 doesn't know when your rotating the phone correct? Nov 21 04:17:05 PoohbaLT: it does, if the app wants to know. Nov 21 04:17:18 ah. Nov 21 04:17:42 do you know of any apps that use that feature. just wanted to see it in action Nov 21 04:17:55 was hoping the browser did it Nov 21 04:18:03 None of the system apps do it, but some on the market probably do. Nov 21 04:18:07 nevermind, I found out what it is Nov 21 04:18:12 (If I remember correctly) Nov 21 04:18:25 there's a short or the button on her headphones is loose Nov 21 04:18:27 languish: share Nov 21 04:18:32 oh ok Nov 21 04:18:55 doeswn't happen with my headphones. and happens when her headphone button is shakenm, without the phone moving Nov 21 04:19:23 Probably something that could be improved in software, up to a certain extent. Nov 21 04:20:03 ah the wonder of accelerometers... even hardware problems can now be mistaken for features Nov 21 04:26:40 jbq, regarding the roadmap, what about Bluetooth? Nov 21 04:27:40 I think I've heard that someone was working on improving it, but I don't know any details. Nov 21 04:30:32 interesting, tmo warrantys the G1 for 1 year, but the headphones for only 90 days Nov 21 04:32:43 drm is bad Nov 21 04:35:06 * p_quarles hearts DRM (/always a rebel) Nov 21 04:35:24 I love DRM Nov 21 04:35:30 as long as I get to manage the keys Nov 21 04:35:32 * geist punches DRM in the face Nov 21 04:35:57 just imagine how tough it would be for hackers if they could only run binaries that I signed Nov 21 04:36:19 suddenly rootkits, kernel roootkits, trojans, and various other attacks would be impossible Nov 21 04:38:11 spikebike: you are forgetting one thing Nov 21 04:38:18 ya? Nov 21 04:38:23 spikebike: we dont trust you to sign our code ; Nov 21 04:38:24 ) Nov 21 04:38:30 ;) Nov 21 04:38:39 I don't want to sign your binaries Nov 21 04:38:42 I want to sign mine Nov 21 04:39:24 thats alot of overhead for each person to sign the binaries they would run Nov 21 04:39:31 I want to control a list of keys. Say I trust Linus, Ubuntu, google, and myself Nov 21 04:39:38 well then the hackers will just attck your trinaries Nov 21 04:39:38 :| Nov 21 04:39:40 I try to keep it simple and ask myself: Nov 21 04:39:52 wcwjs? (what code would Jesus sign)? Nov 21 04:39:56 s/hackers/crackers Nov 21 04:40:34 where i really only trust one in that list Nov 21 04:40:34 p_quarles, the code of ethics.. Nov 21 04:40:35 :| Nov 21 04:41:10 sure, pick whoever you like Nov 21 04:41:12 languish: is that in Perl? Nov 21 04:41:16 as long as you pick the list it's cool Nov 21 04:46:19 so the paranoid will audit code and trust only their own compiled binaries Nov 21 04:46:33 others will accept some other signatures Nov 21 04:46:55 If I as a sysadmin don't trust adobe, then folks can't run acrobat Nov 21 04:47:23 and if some hacker tries to insmod trojan.ko, then it doens't work and I get an email Nov 21 04:48:35 I wish the g1 was as enlightened Nov 21 04:50:11 hmm Nov 21 04:51:09 tmo's sending us replacement batteries free. but the actual problem I called about.. the short in the headphones, has to be replaced by the accessories department tomorrow Nov 21 04:51:12 o.O Nov 21 04:51:55 * languish wonders what the point of 24hr customer/technical service is if they cannot replace common parts Nov 21 04:52:43 which means I have to call back in too Nov 21 04:53:21 er Nov 21 04:53:27 what happened to your batteries? Nov 21 04:58:05 is there a way to automate the taking of screenshots? Nov 21 05:00:13 there's a tool called screenshot2 in the git treee Nov 21 05:00:14 -e Nov 21 05:00:19 it can be used from the command line Nov 21 05:02:02 romainguy, thanks, I'll look into it Nov 21 05:10:23 is there a way to control running processes? unfortunately the no root policy means i cant even do ps aux Nov 21 05:12:25 no, you can't Nov 21 05:12:38 that sucks Nov 21 05:12:42 no it doesn't :) Nov 21 05:13:23 how do you expect gnu people to develop for this platform Nov 21 05:13:34 what does have anything to do with this? Nov 21 05:13:56 i only speak for myself but part of the appeal -- a big part -- of linux and foss and gnu is absolute control Nov 21 05:13:57 (and if you want to develop with full control you can always use the emulator) Nov 21 05:14:20 open source is open source Nov 21 05:14:29 it has nothing to do with having full control on the running software Nov 21 05:14:42 but its not an open system Nov 21 05:14:51 Android is open source Nov 21 05:15:01 so its open source but not open in all respects Nov 21 05:15:07 Android is Nov 21 05:15:09 illuminum: are you related to rms? Nov 21 05:15:16 the G1 is not Nov 21 05:15:19 Android != G1 Nov 21 05:15:32 sad but true Nov 21 05:15:34 #android: featuring nightly recurring failures to understand the difference between open source and unrestricted hardware Nov 21 05:15:35 whayt if i simply want to know if there are any processes running which are lagging the system Nov 21 05:15:51 terminal -> top Nov 21 05:15:51 illuminum: there's a system monitor in the marketplace that does that nicely Nov 21 05:16:02 not really Nov 21 05:16:16 is trigatch4 in here? Nov 21 05:16:25 it just shows % usage, no individual processes Nov 21 05:16:51 im always wondering wtf is up when shit lags and i have no way to know Nov 21 05:17:13 d03boy: no, he's not, as the userlist for this channel shows pretty clearly Nov 21 05:17:30 eh Nov 21 05:17:39 you can run top from the terminal? Nov 21 05:17:44 * illuminum checks thx Nov 21 05:18:00 i thought the system was so castrated i couldnt do that Nov 21 05:18:14 p_quarles, some people use different nicks at times. Nov 21 05:18:46 sweet Nov 21 05:20:48 so since there is no compiler access via the terminal if i wanted to cc some basic unix utils id need to compile it on my own box with the right toolchain is that right Nov 21 05:22:49 there isn't enough storage or enough RAM to run any significant compiler environment on the device. Nov 21 05:23:06 dunno Nov 21 05:23:16 192MB ram seems like a compiler could work Nov 21 05:23:29 pretty sure saurik is building many of his bins on the device Nov 21 05:24:07 half of that is gone by the time the kernel starts. Then the kernel itself takes some, so that doesn't leave that much for user-space, and you've got no swap. Nov 21 05:24:12 awesome Nov 21 05:24:17 saurik is a hero Nov 21 05:24:26 cross-compiling is by far an easier option. Nov 21 05:24:37 heh, saurik basically said exactly the opposite Nov 21 05:24:50 I think it's 64 MB is taken by the kernel and 128MB is free to the user Nov 21 05:25:14 nah Nov 21 05:25:27 seems to me Nov 21 05:25:31 does he still hang out on his iphone channel or has he migrated to here? Nov 21 05:25:35 when plugged in my android vibrates more Nov 21 05:25:41 like I said, by the time linux starts about half the RAM is already gone to other parts of the phone. Nov 21 05:25:45 ah, sorry, 99MB free to user sapce Nov 21 05:25:57 and you can add swap if you want Nov 21 05:26:02 actually, that's 99MB for kernel + user-space. Nov 21 05:26:20 eh? flash based swap mem Nov 21 05:26:26 why would you want to compile on the device? Nov 21 05:26:34 cross compiling is the way to go Nov 21 05:26:52 especially since you have the toolchain that matches with one that built the rest of the system Nov 21 05:27:09 i woouldnt? i was more curious about the toolchains existence Nov 21 05:27:29 its there Nov 21 05:27:37 cool Nov 21 05:28:07 it's somewhere in there: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/prebuilt.git;a=summary Nov 21 05:32:13 alright guys thanks for the info Nov 21 05:32:15 gnight Nov 21 05:32:26 'nite Nov 21 05:38:11 ok Nov 21 05:38:15 i bet this gets asked a lot Nov 21 05:38:41 rc30 -> rc29 yet? Nov 21 05:39:21 if you upgraded to rc30... too bad soo sad Nov 21 05:40:37 :( Nov 21 05:41:15 here is a picture of RC30 > http://www.superhappyfuntimestore.com/images/chupa2.jpg Nov 21 05:41:58 well break it already Nov 21 05:42:01 :) Nov 21 05:42:29 i am afraid it will bite me Nov 21 05:43:06 jerks Nov 21 05:46:53 boy i hate when people troll Nov 21 05:47:24 jbq: http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/3047640016/ :) Nov 21 05:47:40 romainguy: very nice :) Nov 21 05:48:15 damn, that is real ncie Nov 21 05:48:19 nice* Nov 21 05:48:42 I really like the slivers of light on the edges. Nov 21 05:50:05 to be honest this place is just too damn easy to photograph ^^ Nov 21 05:50:53 But the light is such that you've got to shoot against your usual lighting instincts, and there's so much contrast that exposure is really critical (all right, bracketing can help for the latter) Nov 21 05:51:21 well bracketing not really Nov 21 05:51:24 look at the exposure time Nov 21 05:51:35 ah dang Nov 21 05:51:38 stupid photoshop removed the exif Nov 21 05:51:49 heh Nov 21 05:51:53 so that one was 5 seconds Nov 21 05:51:56 at f/10 Nov 21 05:51:56 use gimp.. its gnu, so its better Nov 21 05:51:59 and freer Nov 21 05:52:12 heat: oh yes totally, The Gimp kicks Photoshop's ass big time Nov 21 05:52:24 the gimp heh.. how appropriate :) Nov 21 05:52:27 jbq: with tons of tourists in the canyon so you barely have room for the tripod Nov 21 05:52:35 romainguy: *nod* Nov 21 05:53:59 jbq: I want that 5D @!# Nov 21 05:54:00 :) Nov 21 05:54:33 Next time, if you don't have one, borrow mine. Nov 21 05:54:42 wish i had a better camera when i was on maui Nov 21 05:54:54 was shotting everything with my sd890 or whatever Nov 21 05:55:05 romainguy: last week-end, finally, I had time to play with the 5D and the 135/2. Killer lens. Nov 21 05:55:07 jbq: at least this photo proves that my 17-40 is not defective, it's very sharp and nice Nov 21 05:55:13 jbq: wow, I bet Nov 21 05:57:02 For the week-end, I had decided to go with primes instead of zooms. I can actually fit a good set of primes in a single bag. Nov 21 05:57:24 2 3 5 7 9 11 Nov 21 05:57:33 lol Nov 21 05:57:38 especially 9 Nov 21 05:57:56 did you use the g1 camera? Nov 21 05:59:40 wastrel: nope. At some point I was playing around with "fun" cameras, but in the end I love very large prints, and I'm unhappy when I capture a shot with a camera that's not technically "up there". Nov 21 06:00:59 I've played with it just a bit, seemed decent "for a phone camera" (which says everything), but I wouldn't count on it to take any picture. I'd rather carry a small DSLR with a good lens. Nov 21 06:01:22 It's not decent -- it's FAR too blurry. Nov 21 06:01:38 Someone should mod a DSLR to make phone calls Nov 21 06:01:46 BHSPitMonkey: YES! Nov 21 06:02:03 best cameraphone evar. Nov 21 06:02:36 it's not decent Nov 21 06:02:52 seriously, even my curve had zoo Nov 21 06:02:53 m Nov 21 06:03:03 if it's less megapixels maybe it wouldn't be so blurry Nov 21 06:03:12 i don't know anything about photography Nov 21 06:03:48 they look OK on the g1 screen but on the desktop they're really blurry Nov 21 06:03:57 wow, I just realized that my DSLR has 5x the battery capacity of a G1. Nov 21 06:03:58 even in full sunlight Nov 21 06:04:21 it has a flash too probably Nov 21 06:04:42 actually, it doesn't (but I have external flashes) Nov 21 06:04:58 well like i said, i don't know anything about cameras :] Nov 21 06:06:07 the G1 camera does very nice macro pictures Nov 21 06:07:07 that means big Nov 21 06:07:28 pictures of small objects. Nov 21 06:08:17 You take pictures of your macros? Nov 21 06:08:27 I'm sure they're real clever and all, but damn dude. Nov 21 06:08:50 I code in Java, I don't do macros Nov 21 06:08:54 you filthy C programmer Nov 21 06:09:11 * jbq feels insulted Nov 21 06:09:22 romainguy: Hey, C is awesome. Nov 21 06:09:22 ;-) Nov 21 06:09:26 no, macro pictures are pictures that you take, and then you instantiate them with different objects in them later - e.g. BEACH(wife) or BEACH(girlfriend) Nov 21 06:09:59 rwhitby: lol Nov 21 06:10:25 hmmmm, macro shots of LCD screens are funny actually. Nov 21 06:12:58 * jbq goes to sleep. Another long day tomorrow... Nov 21 07:14:23 where do I download new android app? Nov 21 07:14:32 the marketplace? Nov 21 07:15:44 market.android.com? Nov 21 07:15:54 ---> G1 newbie. :) Nov 21 07:16:30 there is an app on your phone called "Market" - run it :-) Nov 21 07:17:29 well, I haven't bought one yet, doing research on what kindof websites are good. :) Nov 21 07:17:57 it would actually be nice if there was a web interface to the market Nov 21 07:18:02 you know the Apple App Store? Nov 21 07:18:11 Yeah. Nov 21 07:18:41 How do you input on the G1? Do you have touchpad for G1? Nov 21 07:18:56 the Android Market is similar, with two major differences: at the moment, there is no billing/charging, so all apps are free; and nobody gatekeeps the Market, so anyone can submit applications Nov 21 07:19:00 it has a keyboard! Nov 21 07:19:10 And can I unlock G1? Nov 21 07:19:29 Leeds hi Nov 21 07:19:31 define 'unlock' Nov 21 07:19:34 hmm I haven't noticed from all the websites I read. :( Nov 21 07:19:36 afternon Dreadddddd Nov 21 07:19:54 Meaning you can use other companies's sim card. Nov 21 07:19:55 Leeds, u have g1? Nov 21 07:20:00 yes, I do Nov 21 07:20:23 Do you use it as your primary phone? Nov 21 07:20:26 hubar__: you can get an unlock code from t-mobile after some period - 90 days, I think - or there are places online to buy unlock codes... turboSIM also works, reportedly Nov 21 07:20:29 sort of Nov 21 07:21:06 Leeds, ok. can u play not converting dvdrip or camrip video without lags/ Nov 21 07:21:08 ? Nov 21 07:21:08 hubar__: bye then Nov 21 07:21:39 Dreadddddd: DJTachyon is the one you want to talk to about converting videos Nov 21 07:21:42 damn stupid me, :( Accidentally quited firefox. Nov 21 07:22:03 DJTachyon, hi Nov 21 07:22:31 Leeds: Do you use G1 as your primary phone? Nov 21 07:22:37 Leeds, and u dont know something about it? Nov 21 07:22:43 Dreadddddd: not really, no Nov 21 07:22:46 hubar__: yes, sort of Nov 21 07:22:55 ;\ Nov 21 07:23:00 I do, except mine is currently dead, needs fixing Nov 21 07:23:36 hubar__ you havenät notices that it has a keyboard?:) Oh come on.. http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=g1 - first link, BIG flash animation showing full keyboard. Nov 21 07:23:42 hevn't* Nov 21 07:24:13 hmm, since me and my wife are gonna stick with Tmobile, I will get a G1 afterall. Nov 21 07:26:00 Leeds what u think about g2 ? cooming soon ? Nov 21 07:26:12 what G2? Nov 21 07:26:35 nets android phone Nov 21 07:26:43 HTC HD maybe.. Nov 21 07:26:53 why would the next android phone be from HTC? Nov 21 07:26:57 maybe Garmin nuvifone Nov 21 07:27:13 im thinking PlaySkool Nov 21 07:27:13 or motorola, who have hired 300 people to work on android stuff Nov 21 07:27:54 or motorola.. or LG or maybe samsung -) Nov 21 07:28:09 Can you unlock a G1? Nov 21 07:28:20 Leeds can android work with IRDA? Nov 21 07:28:24 hubar__: you can get an unlock code from t-mobile after some period - 90 days, I think - or there are places online to buy unlock codes... turboSIM also works, reportedly Nov 21 07:28:25 meaning you can use other's simcard for it/ Nov 21 07:28:30 (why is there no love for sony-ericsson ? :)) Nov 21 07:28:42 Leeds: cool thannks! Nov 21 07:28:47 i love siemens and palm -) Nov 21 07:28:49 tauno_: because they suck - I just traded in a few-month-old SE phone for my G1 Nov 21 07:28:59 I would *love* a Palm Android phone Nov 21 07:29:04 sony-ericsson doesn't make smart phone, right? Nov 21 07:29:16 hubar__ no Nov 21 07:29:18 p1 Nov 21 07:29:18 I don't know if there's any support in Android for IRDA, but the G1 does not have any IR Nov 21 07:29:21 p900 Nov 21 07:29:25 yes, SE do make smartphones Nov 21 07:30:02 hubar__, http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=Can+you+unlock+a+G1%3F <- first links Nov 21 07:30:09 Well, i need a phone that I can text message with. :) Nov 21 07:30:21 hubar__: oh, you should get a Nokia then Nov 21 07:30:34 why all company forgot about IRDA only Nokia 5800 have it.. Nov 21 07:30:58 because we've been using bluetooth instead for the past 5+ years Nov 21 07:31:32 Cursor origpassc=myDB.rawQuery("SELECT FirstName FROM " + MY_DATABASE_TABLE + " WHERE LastName='Gramlich' LIMIT 1",null); Nov 21 07:31:32 String origpass=origpassc.getString(origpassc.getColumnIndex("FirstName")); Nov 21 07:31:36 Leeds: tmobile doesn't have a lot cool Nokia phones. Nov 21 07:31:38 It no workie! Why? o.o Nov 21 07:31:56 Leeds i know that bloototh is good but what about pult ? Nov 21 07:32:02 It seems that tm has the least varieties of cellphones. Nov 21 07:32:04 fsck t-mobile Nov 21 07:32:26 fsck carriers - they have no business locking phones or getting exclusive deals Nov 21 07:32:26 to swith on\off your TV using irda and soft on your pda Nov 21 07:32:27 Leeds, to be honest, I like SE phones way more than say Nokia, Samsung, Motorola or LG (and yes, I have used most of the new models from these brands.. 95% of them are not usable) Nov 21 07:32:53 tauno_: I totally agree Nov 21 07:32:57 tauno_: I haven't used phones from any of those companies - since the Nokia I had in about 1998 Nov 21 07:32:58 I didn't like SE's smart phones though Nov 21 07:33:08 I've used SE and Palm since then, nothing else Nov 21 07:33:21 actually, E, then SE, then Palm, then SE Nov 21 07:33:58 Leeds what about my question ?) Nov 21 07:34:07 I have no ida what pult is Nov 21 07:34:36 idea Nov 21 07:34:38 swith on\off your TV using irda Nov 21 07:34:45 romainguy, exactly.. the smartphones are kind of.. well they are not responsive and clunky (is that even a word?) to use etc.. Nov 21 07:34:50 yeah, I have a remote for that Nov 21 07:35:11 I bought a UIQ3 phone a few months ago - I didn't realise it had already been EOLed as a platform Nov 21 07:35:31 and I really don't like UIQ :( Nov 21 07:35:57 Leeds remote but if u wont to swith all electonics in your home using only 1 remote = your phone Nov 21 07:35:58 I really really liked my W810i Nov 21 07:36:05 it was just awesome Nov 21 07:36:06 SE's middle-end phones with their own OS (whatever it was called) rock :) Nov 21 07:36:11 (especially with Salling Clicker) Nov 21 07:38:15 romainguy, try w890 - it will blow you mind (full aluminium!, really slim and light, great display, really responsive and with actual keys (not like w880).. they just took w880 and corrected all mistakes :) ) Nov 21 07:39:34 huh.. it's getting really cold here.. can't type with cold fingers :/ Nov 21 07:39:35 SE makes awesome phones Nov 21 07:39:47 They need to make awesome android phones now Nov 21 07:39:58 i use siemens sx1 with QT and nofing beter xD Nov 21 07:40:06 One of the things they do really well is come up with awesome value-add programs for whatever their platform is Nov 21 07:40:16 Too bad they aren't in the OHA Nov 21 07:41:31 I like Nokia's E71 Nov 21 07:41:47 When is it going on sale in the states.... Nov 21 07:42:16 SE have gone to the dark side :-( Nov 21 07:42:46 SE's newer middle-end (eg non smartphone) phones come with top features also - GPS, accelerometers, hsdpa, video calling (this is a really old feature on SE's) etc etc.. Nov 21 07:43:23 my last one didn't do EDGE Nov 21 07:43:52 Leeds where i can get list what phones fully suport android ? Nov 21 07:44:14 Dreadddddd, let me give it to you.. Nov 21 07:44:16 Dreadddddd: the T-Mobile G1 (aka HTC Dream) Nov 21 07:44:19 Dreadddddd, G1 Nov 21 07:44:29 -) Nov 21 07:44:32 you could *argue* freerunner Nov 21 07:44:36 i know.. Nov 21 07:44:54 but it would be a pretty boring argument, so lets not bother Nov 21 07:45:01 bt what about porting android on other phones? Nov 21 07:45:18 Android is an OS? Nov 21 07:45:32 hubar__: what did you think it was? Nov 21 07:45:37 How do you port an OS to other phones that have their own OS. Nov 21 07:46:00 Leeds: hmm that statement wasn't meant to be a question. Nov 21 07:46:23 time to zzz nite guys. Nov 21 07:46:56 hubar__ android work on HP4700 that have WM 2003, 5.0, 6.0 and 6.1 Nov 21 07:47:02 too slow Nov 21 07:47:08 but 4700 is pda Nov 21 07:52:45 http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/11159/12183/sony-ericsson-oha-android-google.phtml - "Sony Ericsson has confirmed that it was invited into the Open Handset Alliance by Google but declined entry, instead insisting that it would concentrate on its UIQ interface." Nov 21 07:52:53 huh.. that was a smart decision :D Nov 21 07:53:37 so they've got a choice of S60 (aka opensymbian) or wince now Nov 21 07:54:11 Leeds: hey Nov 21 07:54:25 hey eugene Nov 21 07:54:28 no, they can also still go the Android way (I think they actually are at some point) or they can stick with their own OS that beats the crap out of S60 IMO :) Nov 21 07:54:42 they don't have a smartphone OS Nov 21 07:54:53 eugene: you been hiding from me? :-) Nov 21 07:54:54 wel.. define smartphone.. Nov 21 07:55:10 Leeds: no i did not... i have been busy :/ Nov 21 07:55:30 I don't know of anything, that s60 can do, and that I would use, that I can't do on SE.. Nov 21 07:55:31 well... I hope you decided you don't want me to bring you a phone... Nov 21 07:55:50 tauno_: install third-party apps? Nov 21 07:55:51 Leeds: sorry, i decided not.. i shall wait for G3 :P Nov 21 07:56:09 eugene: well, I'm glad - I'm going to be on my way to the airport in a couple of hours anyway Nov 21 07:56:27 Leeds: oh... have fun man... Nov 21 07:56:39 what's the weather like, or shouldn't I ask? Nov 21 07:56:44 Leeds: rainy Nov 21 07:56:48 Leeds: bring along an umbrella Nov 21 07:57:01 ah... oops :-) I'll grab one from 7-11 Nov 21 07:57:11 Leeds: maybe it is cheaper to buy one here Nov 21 07:57:44 similar, I guess... oh well, I'll be in the land of illegal gum-chewers in a few hours :-) Nov 21 07:57:48 Leeds: hehe Nov 21 07:57:57 Leeds: if you don't want your G1, you know what to do with it... Nov 21 07:58:16 trade it in and get an iPhone, yeah Nov 21 07:58:38 Leeds: give it to me ;) Nov 21 07:58:50 let me think about that... nah :-P Nov 21 07:59:06 Leeds: aww Nov 21 08:00:16 bleh Nov 21 08:08:09 Ok, my sister came to town with her iPhone 3G Nov 21 08:08:20 I don't care who says multitouch is overrated... I absolutely must have it Nov 21 08:08:38 picture zooming any other way sucks Nov 21 08:09:19 agreed Nov 21 08:09:22 go to it ;-) Nov 21 08:09:49 the fuck is this pmTest Nov 21 08:09:58 except a reason that Google needs to monitor the market Nov 21 08:10:01 hmmm where would i find documentation on 'try' and 'catch'? Nov 21 08:10:02 yeah. We'll have to do it in software for the G1 gestures - unless we can find a way to get the EGR stuff to work - which I doubt Nov 21 08:11:05 hi, can someone tell me where in the source i configure my arch? will try to compile it for the freerunner ... Nov 21 08:12:22 Maybe I'll start a google code project for interested parties in implementing multittouch on G1 to start contributing working on a set of patches and stuff Nov 21 08:12:43 also basic java crud such as the use of while/foreach/next :P Nov 21 08:12:59 or string comparisons Nov 21 08:13:14 Fnord^-: a Java book? Nov 21 08:13:27 bah! no time for that :-O Nov 21 08:18:05 Maybe I'll start a google code project for interested parties in implementing multittouch on G1 to start contributing working on a set of patches and stuff Nov 21 08:18:26 languish - yep. I was there when he said that :) Nov 21 08:18:27 RyeBrye, start on a way to identify what panel/hardware they have. Nov 21 08:18:41 languish - it's already there - dmesg outputs it when it boots Nov 21 08:19:05 ah, it identifies the features of the panel? Nov 21 08:19:06 languish - synaptics_ts_probe Nov 21 08:19:24 I'm wondering if synaptics might later spike the punch Nov 21 08:19:25 Well, not quite the features, but the major and minor versions, and properties Nov 21 08:19:36 because they're only being paid for a cheaper punch Nov 21 08:19:55 or if they already have spiked it :| Nov 21 08:20:10 or of htc does it. Nov 21 08:20:15 of/if Nov 21 08:20:30 The extra stuff they charge for is the EGR stuff where the panel will do the gesture recognition in the panel itself and give nice gestures to the OS Nov 21 08:20:42 and if said spiking is detectable at all, as the panel will still show up as the same model Nov 21 08:21:26 so instead of having to do all the "is this person pinching?" crap in the software - it is all done and then passed up as an "hey, this person is pinching starting from here and going to here" or something like that Nov 21 08:21:34 i'm just conjecturing, as knowing said issues will ensure a better project Nov 21 08:22:59 I think it's unlikely that the parts will change, to be honest. I highly doubt any G1-specific multitouch stuff would ever get accepted and merged in for that very reason - but that doesn't mean we can't just run our own separate git where we manage patches that get smooshed in place Nov 21 08:23:57 I think the most likely way to make it functional is to find a way for it to tie into a multitouch architecture that gets built when another phone that uses it comes out Nov 21 08:24:05 I'm more concerned with improved tap-accuracy, as gui design currently requires larger "buttons" or defined touch points to register properly every time, or not be confused with tapping as neighboring designated function Nov 21 08:25:13 ok misses an as in there Nov 21 08:25:16 *missed Nov 21 08:26:54 * languish going in to food coma Nov 21 08:27:24 what about a "did u mean to click" popup or zoom function to make sure you click on the right button/link? Nov 21 08:27:30 RyeBrye, I wonder how long before we get a multitouch android device Nov 21 08:27:51 ionstorm, nah.. that's frustrate games and workflow Nov 21 08:27:56 *that'd Nov 21 08:28:28 has anyone decoded the debug output of the multitouch? Does it include x/y axis, location of the click? Nov 21 08:29:42 the game in the market "netwalk" (almost spelled it entwalk.. which is a cool game idea too) is a good example of the issue.. the squares are small.. and there are issues with proper tap recognition because of it Nov 21 08:30:22 ionstorm, you didn't read ryebrye's blog post on the subject? Nov 21 08:30:31 yea briefly Nov 21 08:30:48 mostly skimmed over it, gonna read it again Nov 21 08:30:52 nod Nov 21 08:31:50 ionstorm - just look at a couple of the pastebin logs... the easiest ones to 'parse' in the head are the ones with two fingers moving in opposite directions Nov 21 08:31:51 briefly, it comes down to, it does.. but there's a parameter missing for multitouch Nov 21 08:31:59 Yeah, the width thing Nov 21 08:32:03 nod Nov 21 08:32:11 this shit should be in the news, maybe if enough ppl complain google will enable it Nov 21 08:32:15 Well... it's kind of missing - It seems that it's taking the largest of the 2 values Nov 21 08:32:28 ah ha Nov 21 08:32:41 ok how does the touches pass through java land Nov 21 08:32:56 Yeah, good question - I was trying to poke around and figure that out Nov 21 08:33:12 just to hack in a second touch that I could snag and build a crude proof-of-concept in java land Nov 21 08:33:20 like a 2-person air hockey game or something Nov 21 08:33:29 ha nice Nov 21 08:33:36 do it Nov 21 08:33:37 (well... minus the puck even - so a 2-person "slide the paddle around" thing for the very first iteration :) ) Nov 21 08:33:46 ionstorm, the issue is that there's no assurance every G1 will have the same panel, or a multi-touch capable panel. The G1 specs for HTC state single-touch, so they can source whatever panel they want that meets said specs. Nov 21 08:33:48 how about, pinball Nov 21 08:33:57 I doubt they'll ever source a single-touch panel.. Nov 21 08:34:00 but they could Nov 21 08:34:06 or they could get crippled panels Nov 21 08:34:20 lame Nov 21 08:34:21 it has little to do with google Nov 21 08:35:04 and googles focus is getting android working a bit more homogenously with other devices.. which may not have multitouch panels at all Nov 21 08:35:09 I highly doubt they will ever change their parts... but yeah - who knows what will happen. I think once another multitouch phone does come out and android has better support for it in the platform, it should be possible to rig together a proper multitouch emulation layer for the G1's dumb multitouch Nov 21 08:35:39 yea I doubt they will change the original g1 other than possibly the audio jack Nov 21 08:35:43 (so translating just the raw X/Y's of 2 fingers back into gestures) Nov 21 08:36:05 I doubt they'll ever change the original G1 Nov 21 08:36:12 G1.1 Nov 21 08:36:18 could a java app just read the debug output and use that efficiently as a quick hack? Nov 21 08:36:47 Leeds, it makes more sense for HTC to go with a complete revision, not a minor modification. Nov 21 08:36:51 ionstorm - interesting thought Nov 21 08:36:55 ;] Nov 21 08:37:03 ionstorm - or even piping the debug output to a file constantly might be another thought... Nov 21 08:37:22 ionstorm - parsing taht out of a file should be a piece of cake Nov 21 08:37:26 multitouchd Nov 21 08:37:28 yup Nov 21 08:37:31 and so far, all the info given points to the next android devices being different form factors. not sidekick-like Nov 21 08:38:08 they're going for candybar android devices, and i forget the term for the other form factor.. but like the crackberrys Nov 21 08:38:08 I assume you can use named pipes for IPC? Nov 21 08:38:24 dunno, but it's an interesting thought Nov 21 08:38:41 thinking like gpm which emulates a mouse device Nov 21 08:39:42 I'll look into it over the weekend - if anyone feels like writing a basic parser for the output - the pastebin files show the current output format which we could easily just keep - or we could modify... We could just make the activity not be set up to read the touchscreen - so then we can manually read from the dump file I suppose, right? Nov 21 08:40:21 ... and even more ghetto... you can set up permissions to be able to send input events to other applications... Nov 21 08:40:35 bombastic Nov 21 08:40:40 w0rd Nov 21 08:43:22 I'm off to bed now Nov 21 08:43:27 good night Nov 21 08:43:50 That file idea sounds like a clever way to make an ugly hack :) Nov 21 08:44:03 g'night Nov 21 08:44:43 ;) Nov 21 09:44:43 anyone know if it's possible to turn off g3 but turn on wireless (for travelling abroad?) Nov 21 09:46:04 3G you mean? yup Nov 21 09:46:26 there is an option "Use only 2G networks" Nov 21 09:46:58 yeah 3g... no i mean I ant to use only wireless Nov 21 09:47:21 i don't wanna be charged for data xfer.... Nov 21 09:47:24 when in canada Nov 21 09:47:43 phone at least I can control... but I'd rather limit it to wireless only-- which will be free Nov 21 09:47:49 there's also an option to disable data roaming Nov 21 09:47:52 by phone I mean voice Nov 21 09:47:56 ah, when you say wireless you mean wifi Nov 21 09:47:59 there is.. oh okay good Nov 21 09:48:02 yeah Nov 21 09:48:06 sorry it's late Nov 21 09:48:29 i want to shut off data roaming and only use wifi when available Nov 21 09:48:42 you can do that Nov 21 09:56:25 excuse me Nov 21 09:56:58 hi guys i need some help in using diff command Nov 21 09:57:12 can anyone help me about /dev/log/main problem? I'm wondering why logcat is using /dev/log/main while the logger driver is using /dev/log_main? Nov 21 09:58:22 i am taking a diff between a hardware specific linux 2.6.24 and android kernel 2.6.25 Nov 21 09:59:14 using this command "diff -NcrB linux-2.6.24 android-linux-2.6.25 > patch" Nov 21 09:59:41 but on doing this command it does not show any hunk errors but delete Nov 21 10:00:09 the hardware specific files from thelinux-2.6.24 kernel Nov 21 10:01:28 can anyone help me out Nov 21 10:21:12 hi to all Nov 21 10:53:27 hihihihi Nov 21 11:01:43 is the G1 worth $430 (with contract renewal for 24 months)? :x Nov 21 11:06:08 please someone say yes so i can order it :p Nov 21 11:09:43 eldenz, do you plan on developing apps for android? Nov 21 11:09:57 if yes, then yes. if no, well.. then no. Nov 21 11:10:18 i'm software engineer... i like hacking around things, yes ;) Nov 21 11:10:23 then yes. Nov 21 11:10:27 \š/ thank you ;) Nov 21 11:10:37 especially if you do some java programming. Nov 21 11:10:40 it's a bit expensive (for a student) Nov 21 11:10:54 develop an app or two, charge a few $ for it, get some money back. Nov 21 11:11:25 how much do you get back if you place it in the market? percentage? Nov 21 11:11:27 something functional, that people will use or want, and hasn't been done 10x over already for $3.. will get you some $ Nov 21 11:11:42 right now, the market doesn't have a method for charging people. Nov 21 11:11:49 it will in january i believe Nov 21 11:12:02 but there are online stores for android apps Nov 21 11:12:11 or you can set up your own using paypal. Nov 21 11:12:11 okay Nov 21 11:12:25 also, you could give it away, and accept donations Nov 21 11:12:34 (though don't expect a windfall from donations) Nov 21 11:12:39 I just it'll go on sale in .de soon Nov 21 11:12:44 +hope Nov 21 11:12:57 but over time.. it may offset some of the cost of the device Nov 21 11:13:08 do you have t-mobile in .de? Nov 21 11:13:27 i think there is... i'm from switzerland, they don't have t-mobile though Nov 21 11:13:37 nod Nov 21 11:13:47 but still, some local shop here imported them and i get price reducting for renewing the contract Nov 21 11:13:50 haha. langusih, t-mobile is a german company Nov 21 11:13:57 :) Nov 21 11:14:00 as well as 3G/HSDPA/UMTS/GPRS 1GB flat Nov 21 11:14:00 shhhh Nov 21 11:16:00 eldenz, do you know java? (not java script) Nov 21 11:16:50 heh, yes we do have TMO Nov 21 11:16:51 :P Nov 21 11:17:24 :) Nov 21 11:17:54 so eldenz, you plan to buy the G1 in china? Nov 21 11:18:09 then go back to.. germany or switzerland? Nov 21 11:18:09 theres no simple way to make money with android apps now Nov 21 11:18:12 :( Nov 21 11:18:28 and th emarket is so badly broken imo that even come february i have my doubts Nov 21 11:18:41 languish, yes i know java Nov 21 11:18:45 i managed to make $15 requesting donations though Nov 21 11:18:46 lol Nov 21 11:18:52 i'm sure the market updates will be interesting Nov 21 11:18:55 languish, .ch = switzerland :P Nov 21 11:19:03 ah my bad :) Nov 21 11:19:34 im going to try a different strategy of placing amazon search boxes and banners in my programs Nov 21 11:19:49 i thought it said .cn Nov 21 11:19:56 i should be sleeping Nov 21 11:20:02 i should be showering Nov 21 11:20:30 blau, text only ads please. Nov 21 11:20:33 so do i.. showering Nov 21 11:20:52 graphical ads in app.. *puke* Nov 21 11:20:58 and then go and pick up my G1 \o/ \o/ \o/ Nov 21 11:21:04 i'm so excited Nov 21 11:21:05 :D Nov 21 11:21:07 wonder how outraged people will be with banner ads on a 2.5 inch screen Nov 21 11:21:30 have you written any apps languish? Nov 21 11:21:50 i already have people bitching that theres a single button bellow the other buttons in my one app that says donate Nov 21 11:21:55 eldenz, working on it, slowly. But I'm more interested in observing android develop :) Nov 21 11:22:23 blau, asking for money is always a srs and sensitive business :) Nov 21 11:22:54 and then ive had people donate, and cancel their donation ... no clue why Nov 21 11:23:02 its not ilke they did it by accident Nov 21 11:23:08 and in all instances, they changed the default amount Nov 21 11:23:28 and it shouldnt really be buyers remorse, since the cancels were done a minute or so later Nov 21 11:23:28 blau, what's the app? Nov 21 11:23:31 it tends to happen when they find a bug they don't like, or another app that suits them better Nov 21 11:23:50 its not like they wait a day, realise somehting is better and cancel Nov 21 11:23:59 or they clicked just to see what would happen Nov 21 11:24:01 that's very lame. Nov 21 11:24:10 what's the default amount, and what's the app? Nov 21 11:24:37 eldenz: i got about half the money for dgMoney and about half for dgSMS Screen Alert Nov 21 11:25:08 default for dgmoney is $1 Nov 21 11:25:21 oh actually its not default, its minimum, sorry Nov 21 11:25:23 is there some www for description/screenshots? Nov 21 11:25:32 i thought they automatically filled it in Nov 21 11:25:53 the pages are the most basic amazon page i could find, im planning on fixing it up, but for the moment id rather develop Nov 21 11:25:54 http://zme.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/P3U5UQOQ7TAU3G/187-3463423-1796364 Nov 21 11:26:09 oh you mean for the apps Nov 21 11:26:11 :) Nov 21 11:26:11 http://android.mikedg.com/ Nov 21 11:26:18 heh yeah Nov 21 11:26:20 thats not done either, preference towards development Nov 21 11:26:32 dgmoney has pics Nov 21 11:26:38 great vibrate is unreleased Nov 21 11:26:43 and my other apps arent there yet Nov 21 11:28:30 dgmoney is basically a check register with some bonus features, it was designed for personal usage mainly, but blows away everything else in the market now Nov 21 11:29:17 think im going to plan on charging for it when the app market matures, but keep the existing version up to that point as free Nov 21 11:30:12 blau, do you have a g1 and market app access? Nov 21 11:30:58 look at how jie xu asked for donations for RSS Reader Nov 21 11:31:36 pff, a single buck and people cancel their donations? Nov 21 11:32:09 pandzilla, likely some other issue involved Nov 21 11:32:23 when they cancel immediately.. Nov 21 11:36:18 pandzilla: i've had a $10 donation shortly cancelled Nov 21 11:36:23 a $3 and a $5 Nov 21 11:36:57 the $10 maybe she thought It was the only way to email me? shrug Nov 21 11:37:13 odd. Nov 21 11:37:19 like I got the $10 donation confirmation from amazon, then like 30 mins later got an email from the one who donated Nov 21 11:37:36 and when i looked at donation page i saw that it was cancelled shortly after being placed Nov 21 11:37:38 mwah hah, just when I thought the pipe-to-shell-execution bug was bad... Apple tops things Nov 21 11:37:41 http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=331220 Nov 21 11:38:42 languish: how does jie xu get donations? Nov 21 11:38:47 im pretty internet savy Nov 21 11:38:56 and I dont know how to send him something... paypal? Nov 21 11:39:38 yes he gave his gmail address, I assume he's accepting paypal via email Nov 21 11:39:46 anyone know how to programmatically enable the keyboard backlight? Nov 21 11:40:10 wake_lock full or something Nov 21 11:40:21 hm, that doesn't seem to do the trick Nov 21 11:40:30 powermanager.wakelock Nov 21 11:40:33 .acquire Nov 21 11:40:56 ive had some issues with wakelocks not working as expected Nov 21 11:41:15 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/os/PowerManager.html Nov 21 11:41:19 Well, I have another wake lock, maybe I need to release that one first Nov 21 11:41:34 kruton: i dont think so, but try it Nov 21 11:42:08 my sms screen alert app is really basic, but somehow doesnt always turn the screen on even though its just acquire with wakelockfull Nov 21 11:42:27 i know the method that executes that is running, i know theres no exceptions Nov 21 11:42:37 but the screen sometimes flashes for like a millisecond Nov 21 11:42:43 almost imperceptable Nov 21 11:42:55 reboot usually fixes it, so i suggest that Nov 21 11:43:11 some people have never had a problem with my app Nov 21 11:43:19 its weird Nov 21 11:43:51 ive tried all different combinations, using the auto release wake lock, releasing it on my own, keeping the thread alive Nov 21 11:43:58 in an activity, in a receiver Nov 21 11:44:18 i chalked it up to whatever makes the alarm not work sometimes Nov 21 11:44:28 with a fox, in a box... Nov 21 11:45:53 so shrug Nov 21 11:46:12 anyone use one of the google calendar addon/widgets todolists? Nov 21 11:50:03 even PowerManager.userActivity seems to not toggle the keyboard Nov 21 11:54:38 i gotta roll cya Nov 21 11:57:00 heh, dumpsys power shows that KEYBOARD_BRIGHT_BIT is set, but mKeyboardBrightness is still 0 Nov 21 12:00:00 oo Nov 21 12:03:26 I sent an email to the guy that wrote the user-space power management. Nov 21 12:03:36 Hopefully he responds (and is still working there) Nov 21 12:13:44 anyone of you know, if you switch the SIM from one phone to another, do you need any other code than the PIN? Nov 21 12:22:53 nope Nov 21 12:22:56 just plug and play Nov 21 12:23:32 when I got my new G1 I just pulled the chip and battery, swapped them, and I was up and synced with google in 5 minutes. Nov 21 12:26:57 does gps/wifi work without service Nov 21 12:27:07 im thinking it does lol Nov 21 12:27:22 unless they are evil Nov 21 12:29:03 ionstorm, after you initialize the phone, yes.. gps and wifi work without carrier signal. Nov 21 12:37:43 damn anyone got searchwiki enabled @google search Nov 21 12:37:50 not available to me yet Nov 21 12:42:30 I have "note this" as a feature, but not the search wiki specifically Nov 21 12:42:57 so I can't move items "to the top" they way they mentioned, but I can make notes for a link in a google search Nov 21 12:44:28 Google devs around yet? Nov 21 12:51:22 I'll mention it again later but.. I think it would be exceptionally beneficial for google to see if members of Qualcomms Advanced Content Group would create a guide to developing with OpenGL-ES on Android. Nov 21 12:51:38 Perhaps get Baback Elmieh Nov 21 12:53:17 the guy from Northeastern? Nov 21 12:53:55 yeah Nov 21 12:54:10 y? Nov 21 12:56:06 Just wondering. I had a lot of friends that went to NEU, so it has a special place in my heart :) Nov 21 12:56:19 heh Nov 21 12:59:08 I also think Google should put some basic developer formats for naming apps on code.google.com - specifically methods to identify apps that are free, freely licenced, donationware, crippled or time limited shareware/trialware...etc etc Nov 21 12:59:24 good policy stuff Nov 21 12:59:52 NotePadCrippled Nov 21 12:59:56 some devs just don't seems to have a clue when it comes to presenting their apps, even if the app itself is good. Nov 21 13:00:12 -s Nov 21 13:00:30 What specifically have you seen? Nov 21 13:01:40 just go through the market.. it helps when an app has (trial) in the name when it's time-locked or something. Or how devs inform users they acept donations Nov 21 13:11:19 Is anyone using connectbot with screen and an alternative escape key? Nov 21 13:30:14 hrm, is it possible to use simple 'animation' in initlogo.rle like the stock android logo does? Nov 21 13:48:11 hi * Nov 21 14:18:51 greetings; is there a porting guide for the android platform? say i want to build it for an AT91RM9200 or and MPC5121? Nov 21 14:25:17 http://g1.fnord.to/newsu-0.9.tgz Nov 21 14:34:46 4g kingston class 4 micro sdhc for $8 http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=38554421 Nov 21 14:36:28 looks like a bunch of deals on microsdhc there. http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=41834600 is 8g for $17 Nov 21 14:37:59 disconnect: do you use a g1? Nov 21 14:38:33 yes Nov 21 14:39:02 cool, does yours creak a lot? Nov 21 14:39:49 a bit. the usual fix seems to be feet under the back of the screen (intellishield is good cuz its got cutouts for the buttons - the extra button-sized pieces are perfect. putting the rest of mine on sat morning prolly.) Nov 21 14:41:36 oh i see.. mine creaks a lot, im in california so i have 30 days, im thinking about going to exchange it today, but im not sure they will or not for creaking Nov 21 14:42:56 my screen seems to align a bit off too, bottom left protrudes out just a little so the screen isnt aligned perfectly with the phone Nov 21 14:43:42 and that causes it to creak above the power button Nov 21 14:43:54 simple-g1: mine is the same way Nov 21 14:44:58 hmm that sucks. im going to try to get an exchange.. hopefully they'll do it Nov 21 14:45:22 and after the rc30 update the OS runs slower Nov 21 14:47:42 do you think the next build will be released soon? Nov 21 14:48:57 the fact that RC30 runs slower is a mystery. It's been reported by enough people that it's obviously there, but we can't reproduce it in the lab. Nov 21 14:50:16 i could probably be convinced it was slower, although on mine at least there are enough stand-outs (ahem, home) that overall slowness is under the radar :) Nov 21 14:50:27 convinced it was slower on mine i mean Nov 21 14:50:27 i see, it also crashes more often for me, and the memory management seems to be worst, really wish there was a way to end processes other than from root Nov 21 14:50:54 simple-g1: what version did you have before rc30? Nov 21 14:51:09 i had rc29 Nov 21 14:52:04 well, i know it's slower, my friend had the ota before me and we tested side by side and rc29 was definately faster doing the same tasks Nov 21 14:52:13 the very surprising part in all that is that the changes between rc29 and rc30 were extremely narrowly targeted and shouldn't possibly have a broad impact. Nov 21 14:52:17 the OS was just snappier Nov 21 14:52:39 * jbq suspects that the issue isn't with rc30 vs rc29, but that it's in the update process between rc29 and rc30. Nov 21 14:52:45 ending processes would be good. example: browse a bunch, push most everything out. leave, say, k-9 and meebo. quit browsing, you're done, not coming back, open gmail. it might close browser, but more liekly it'll close k-9. oops, you wanted k-9 :( and it should have lcosed browser. (but there is no way to predict that - it must be fed from the user) Nov 21 14:53:11 jbq: you maybe on to something Nov 21 14:53:18 simple-g1: did you do OTA to rc30 or the JF upgrade? (and if JF, was it the patch - that was briefly available - or the full flash?) Nov 21 14:53:48 i used the OYt Nov 21 14:53:57 OTA Nov 21 14:53:57 i did the full JF after rc29, and I experience the slight lag on the os too Nov 21 14:53:58 simple-g1: and that might explain why we don't see it in the lab. rc30 was the first incremental update, and incremental updates don't rewrite the entire filesystem. Nov 21 14:54:15 (but in the lab we typically do full updates). Nov 21 14:54:22 it was annoying me by asking to update all the time so i did it Nov 21 14:55:11 are there firmware differences in hardware? Nov 21 14:55:13 the reason why I'm thinking about this is that the performance of yaffs2 is extremely sensitive to (underlying) fragmentation, and that the incremental update is likely to cause differences here. Nov 21 14:55:53 while i understand the reason for forced updates like that (esp rc28, 29 and rc30, from the carrier/platform perspective) i do object ot the "take it willingly or not, but you will take it" aspect :( Nov 21 14:55:55 my wife has the full rc30 update, not the 4MB rc30, (and not JF's) and she also has the slowdown Nov 21 14:56:19 I could have phrased that better Nov 21 14:56:26 *my wife's G1.. Nov 21 14:56:31 :| Nov 21 14:56:43 languish: how did she get "the full update" since only incrementals were released? Nov 21 14:56:52 hmm.. maybe it's a difference in hardware versions? Nov 21 14:57:24 jbq, the incrimental wasn't updating, so I downloaded the full and update.zip'd from the microsd Nov 21 14:57:44 on hers. Nov 21 14:57:58 greetings; is there a porting guide for the android platform? say i want to build it for an AT91RM9200 or an MPC5121? Nov 21 14:58:31 which reminds me.. Nov 21 14:58:32 I think it would be exceptionally beneficial for google to see if members of Qualcomms Advanced Content Group would create a guide to developing with OpenGL-ES on Android. Nov 21 14:58:43 dbtid: the right place to ask is the android-porting mailing list. Nov 21 14:59:10 thank you Nov 21 14:59:21 hi guys Nov 21 14:59:25 there's also something i was seeing in the info the phone does not display my phone number and i know that could be fixed with an OTA also, could that be it? Nov 21 14:59:50 Perhaps get Baback Elmieh Nov 21 14:59:50 Disconnect: we agree that the current situation update-wise isn't ideal for power-users. I've heard some ideas being thrown around on how to make this more transparent, but ultimately it's up to the device vendor to decide how to manage their devices. Nov 21 15:00:16 i wish the devices werent their devices anymore Nov 21 15:00:31 have any body looked into the source code for master reset / master clear feature? Nov 21 15:00:38 as these things are becoming more and more like pc's Nov 21 15:00:51 open source isnt as open as we might have thought Nov 21 15:01:18 simple-g1: its plenty open. the problem is its not actually an open -platform- in that the platform can be (and has been) closed by vendors. Nov 21 15:01:44 blau: well, they give you a $220 rebate... but it'd be great if there could be open devices for power users... :| Nov 21 15:01:44 its plenty open source i mean. or even call it an open system. its just not an open platform or open devices.. Nov 21 15:02:16 jbq: they don't give a $220 rebate, they lock in a contract. Nov 21 15:02:17 simple-g1: we're transitioning to being a lot more open-source. It's a huge project (22 million lines), so the transition takes time. Nov 21 15:02:22 blau: well, they give you a $220 rebate... <- no, they don't. They offset the cost through a plan. Nov 21 15:02:23 yeah, at the end of the day my phone is only running a modified open source OS Nov 21 15:02:34 jbq, rebate wuth contract tho Nov 21 15:02:51 languish: but the plan would be the exact same price if you brought in your own device. Nov 21 15:02:59 if i dont get a contraqct i still have a locked down phone Nov 21 15:03:18 jbq, no it wouldn't. They have a separate plan for the G1. Nov 21 15:03:43 that's the only plan that works with the G1. Nov 21 15:03:51 And they charge more for data. Nov 21 15:04:17 They play with the numbers and the txt issue to claim they don't. But in reality, it's how they're recouping. Nov 21 15:04:27 gotta go (my bus is almost there). bbiab. Nov 21 15:04:30 more for data? tmo's data plan has always been 19.99 Nov 21 15:04:31 o/ Nov 21 15:04:48 simple-g1, the G1 data plan is $25 or $35 Nov 21 15:04:54 then add in 4.99 for 400 text Nov 21 15:04:59 but they include text messaging, enforced Nov 21 15:05:02 and it adds up to be 25 Nov 21 15:05:04 sidekick data is 20 with unlim text :( Nov 21 15:05:11 so same deal Nov 21 15:05:20 sidekick is diff. Nov 21 15:05:25 And, they push a 2-year contract. When they make up the money within 1 Nov 21 15:05:40 Heck, they make it back within a few months. Nov 21 15:05:44 i used my n95 8gb with edge for awhile Nov 21 15:06:05 Or, buy the device without a plan for $400. So then, why is it closed? Nov 21 15:06:09 but i really wanted 3g so i switched Nov 21 15:06:31 i woulda paid 500 for an open device Nov 21 15:06:33 3g or the iphone 3g? Nov 21 15:06:47 simple-g1: then get a first gen iPhone. Nov 21 15:06:56 g1 is 1700mhzz 3g Nov 21 15:06:58 wb jbq Nov 21 15:06:58 (sorry for the interruption) Nov 21 15:07:37 n95 8gb uses the uk 3g band :[ Nov 21 15:07:48 anyway, the carriers are the carriers, they're greedy, conservative, paranoid, and controlling. Nov 21 15:08:01 u Nov 21 15:08:44 discounting hardware up front isn't doing the public a "favor" it's enabling the public to enter in to long term service with them at a reduced up front, but higher overall cost. Nov 21 15:08:46 im on my g1 right now chatting with you guys haha Nov 21 15:08:55 For the record, I don't disagree that T-Mobile recoups the rebate through the plan. From a user's point of view, it's not really an offset, because the plan costs the same whether you get the device with or without the rebate (so, yeah, it's free money for them in that case). Nov 21 15:09:38 I would *love* to see more transparency in the pricing, but in the US the up-front cost is the part that people compete on. Nov 21 15:09:40 for the user it basically consists of "pay me for agreeing to be a predictable customer for 2 years" .. which is fine, if you intend to stay. Nov 21 15:09:45 jbq, and yet, they still lock the device down when you pay full price for it, with no plan. gotta love it. Nov 21 15:10:20 languish: exactly Nov 21 15:10:22 languish: the funny part is, carriers tend to be more worried about sim unlock than open/closed phone. (since you can just grab any gsm phone and light up..) yet they give the unlock codes out for free with no effort at all Nov 21 15:10:33 languish: yup. That's sad, but understandable. Nov 21 15:10:55 Disconnect, the whole sim lock paranoia they have is just for 3 months while they recoup some basic up front costs for them. Nov 21 15:11:15 They really don't care abotu churn, in fact they appreciate it Nov 21 15:11:18 and then they seperate sms from data Nov 21 15:11:26 because eveyr time someone leaves another carrier.. they may get that customer. Nov 21 15:11:32 it's data for god's sake! Nov 21 15:11:36 yah but its not hard to get it faster. (under 2 weeks for mine) Nov 21 15:11:55 simple-g1: several countries are fighting the sms vs data vs voice in court right now Nov 21 15:11:55 yes, charging $0.15 for a single data trasmission is insane Nov 21 15:12:14 160 characters for 15 cents. Nov 21 15:12:30 i hope we win that fight.. it is data Nov 21 15:12:30 simple-g1: well, from that point of view voice is data too, but at the protocol level voice, SMS and data go through very different channels (though it's not an excuse for SMS being so expensive). Nov 21 15:12:38 i wouldn't be surprised if that is a big part of why the data service is always so unstable - keep it moderately disrupted to prevent it totally supplanting sms service Nov 21 15:12:53 jbq, don't get me started on the voice is data too issue Nov 21 15:13:08 well they choose to use that channel for instant messengers Nov 21 15:13:14 (so unstable as in long-lived connections get dropped, etc. so it works for browsing and most apps, but not the ones that compete with the carrier) Nov 21 15:13:22 simple-g1: nope. that's just a billing issue. Nov 21 15:13:24 meebo for example uses data Nov 21 15:13:25 simple-g1: ..no, they chose to charge the same. thats different. Nov 21 15:13:25 I try to ignore it with the understanding that our society has defined it as a separate service, and the transition will just take time. Nov 21 15:13:27 and not sms Nov 21 15:13:29 for all the debate about pricing, most of you forked out the cash for your device and service... Nov 21 15:13:31 just saying.. Nov 21 15:13:59 unix_lappy, yes.. it's a convenience for some, a necessity for others. Nov 21 15:14:00 simple-g1: non-gtalk IM on the G1 also goes over the data channel, but it talks to a T-Mobile gateway that bills it as SMS. Nov 21 15:14:12 and have done so in devices that are subsidized but still around the 200+ pricepoint. Nov 21 15:14:21 unix_lappy, and it's often a part of a societal social structure Nov 21 15:14:31 jbq: because long ago tmob and at&t convinced people they could do that and charge them money.. :) Nov 21 15:14:33 languish: the iPhone is not the new Rolex. Nov 21 15:14:43 weho said iphone? Nov 21 15:15:21 I have zero interest in the iphone.. I'm talking about cellphones in general, and data enabled handsets specifically Nov 21 15:15:26 not the iphone in particular Nov 21 15:15:29 unix_lappy we're not discussing iphones Nov 21 15:15:40 That being said, sadly, I still prefer T-Mobile's approach to that of MetroPCS (where if you bring your own device you'll be locked into only having voice and SMS). Nov 21 15:16:00 jbq: neat. Nov 21 15:16:01 metropcs was always a low-rent scumbag org Nov 21 15:16:04 jbq: true Nov 21 15:16:30 * Disconnect hasn't had a carrier phone for 4 years or more. they never bring the good ones to the usa (until g1 at least) even the iphone gen1 i played with was sim-unlocked first thing :) Nov 21 15:16:30 i still prefer tmo over all other carriers Nov 21 15:16:42 I just recognize all the carriers suck. Nov 21 15:16:46 one way or another. Nov 21 15:16:56 no exceptions yet Nov 21 15:17:12 so pick your most tolerable mix of suck, and deal Nov 21 15:17:13 an_dev: which source are you talking about? Nov 21 15:17:33 yeah i forked out 700 for my n95 8gb and i dont want to do that again for another phone Nov 21 15:17:57 so my only option was g1 Nov 21 15:18:07 id rather have an xperia x1 Nov 21 15:18:19 You've got to give it to T-Mobile that they've contributed significantly to the launch of Android. Nov 21 15:18:32 no, I don;t have to give that to them Nov 21 15:18:34 at all Nov 21 15:18:44 t-mobile was part of the cabal against google getting airwaves Nov 21 15:19:08 That's a different part of T-Mobile and a different part of Google, though. Nov 21 15:19:11 had google gotten their freq's to blanket the US with connectivity, carriers would be a non-issue Nov 21 15:19:45 different part? BS. Same tmo.. same CEO, same german interest Nov 21 15:20:19 jbq: they contributed significantly to the launch of an alpha/beta product as a jesus phone killer when it can barely dial :) Nov 21 15:20:39 yeah and my 3g is still so spotty :[ Nov 21 15:20:46 Disconnect: you should have seen what it was like before they helped! ;-) Nov 21 15:20:49 random side note, the g1 is not affected by the iphone tel:/ spoofing. it correctly puts the new # in the dailer. Nov 21 15:20:51 and they get OS development support at very reduced investment Nov 21 15:21:00 jbq: heh Nov 21 15:21:17 s/helped/lit a fire under some chairs/ :) Nov 21 15:21:23 and they get something to attract people to their burgening 3G network, before it's even stable Nov 21 15:21:53 tmo did not do this out of the kindness of their slick tongued hearts Nov 21 15:21:55 Disconnect: no, they really helped. They provided significant material resources that Google wouldn't have been able to provide. Nov 21 15:22:02 cool Nov 21 15:22:22 outside the realm of phone hw and marketing? Nov 21 15:22:27 (as well as a lot of expertise) Nov 21 15:22:30 Disconnect: yup Nov 21 15:22:38 * Disconnect isn't being snarky, actually curious about how the cooperation was handled Nov 21 15:22:40 of course they helped, but theyre just helping themselves in the end Nov 21 15:22:53 jbq, you think if they weren't the smallest of the "big 4" carriers, by a wide margin.. that they would have done it? Nov 21 15:22:56 of course not. Nov 21 15:23:03 they take risks because they are. Nov 21 15:23:16 when they are sufficiently large, they won't any more. Nov 21 15:23:28 but hopefully by then, they'll be outdated Nov 21 15:23:38 languish: well, that'd be a reasonable strategy, right? Nov 21 15:24:07 simple-g1: no, Android itself is much better thanks to their help, so everyone who builds Android phones will benefit. Nov 21 15:24:13 sure. I just don't equate it with them doing it out of the goodness of their hearts Nov 21 15:24:48 right, i wasnt thinking about that part Nov 21 15:24:57 and if it hadn't occured here, google would have gotten a small carrier in some other country to help Nov 21 15:25:18 it would have happened regardless Nov 21 15:25:24 I mean, you can be cynical about the fact that they're a business and that their goal is to maximize shareholder value, and I wouldn't disagree with that, but I think that they contributed to something that will turn out making things better for users. Nov 21 15:25:31 though yes, I appreciate it's available in my market Nov 21 15:26:15 I cant access the android market behind my wireless routers firewall, when i turn it off i can just fine. Is there a port I need to forward? Nov 21 15:26:16 They're also a business that holds back innovation in other areas Nov 21 15:26:20 ..ok so i removed a ton of apps from my home page and it -still- takes 30s or more to display. anything i can do to help that? Nov 21 15:26:35 so they took a small step out of self interest. they're still raging and screaming.. and holding back.. Nov 21 15:26:43 hence closed device. Nov 21 15:26:52 and they couldve worked out something better with htc too.. let's face it the hardware isnt that great.. Nov 21 15:27:16 well I get why the hardware isn't great Nov 21 15:27:27 that much I totally hate, but understand Nov 21 15:27:42 it costs less Nov 21 15:27:54 and they didn't want to risk big investment on a "chance" Nov 21 15:28:04 im sure i would pay more if the hardware was better Nov 21 15:28:15 this way, at low cost.. they get more people interested Nov 21 15:28:26 you would.. most wouldn't Nov 21 15:28:35 most are cost concious.. especially now Nov 21 15:28:40 hardware is hardware. there will be more and different devices over time. it's a starting point. Nov 21 15:28:48 and since it isnt im really thinking about taking it back and waiting for the next android device Nov 21 15:28:51 yah but - for better or worse - they are competing with the jesus phone. and mms+kb is not gonna win over no camera, no multitouch, etc. Nov 21 15:28:56 no storage Nov 21 15:29:05 many are getting G1s JUST because it's cheaper during the economic downturn. Nov 21 15:29:16 app storage is a joke atm Nov 21 15:29:17 even leaving the 3g coverage differences out of it Nov 21 15:29:30 Disconnect, well.. they're actually competing with the Storm and the Touch Pro Nov 21 15:29:49 and xperia x1 Nov 21 15:29:54 nah Nov 21 15:30:00 Speaking of app storage Nov 21 15:30:01 x1 doens't have the market Nov 21 15:30:07 any plans coming down the pipe on running apps off of the SD Card Nov 21 15:30:11 and x1 is priced insanely Nov 21 15:30:14 x1 is much too pricey to compete. Nov 21 15:30:20 or even for mounting the SDCard without noexec? Nov 21 15:30:31 htc touch pro is a little less Nov 21 15:30:39 but not by much Nov 21 15:30:45 vol: apps on SD isn't an issue of noexec (with a VM, it's all data after all). Nov 21 15:30:48 touch pro is priced $300 with contract Nov 21 15:30:55 the touch pro is just a sexier version of the G1. Nov 21 15:31:01 same flaws. Nov 21 15:31:10 i see Nov 21 15:31:11 how about an rss feed for market? Nov 21 15:31:19 touch pro doesn't have capacitive screen, or the compass Nov 21 15:31:22 among other things Nov 21 15:31:32 the touch pro does have a better keyboard Nov 21 15:31:35 what about the soon to be touch hd pro? Nov 21 15:31:49 i can't see how that'll have sufficient battery Nov 21 15:31:50 likely wont see the US market. Nov 21 15:31:50 g1 trackball missing light Nov 21 15:31:54 but let's see how it goes :) Nov 21 15:31:57 jbq: shared libs are "just data" and the linker can't load them on drives marked noexec. Nov 21 15:32:11 led notification light could be better Nov 21 15:32:21 so, instead of having a 50k apk we can throw onto the device and leave all our C code on card, we have to copy everything to the device. Nov 21 15:32:36 keyboard light time out too short Nov 21 15:32:42 and I'd really rather we not have to copy the apk to the device either. Nov 21 15:32:53 the G1 is an interesting device. Just not a great device. I would have been much happier with a light for the camera, even more so tham the headphone jack Nov 21 15:33:02 vol: we're thinking hard about apps on SD, see this thread http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/browse_thread/thread/f9acd7b67d98acba# - in a nutshell, our roadmap is now entirely open, so it can be prioritized about as high as we want (where "we" here are the people who make decisions about priorities) Nov 21 15:33:22 jbq: interesting Nov 21 15:34:49 priorities on the android side.. better touch accuracy, and better "phone" fucntionality.. dialing, interacting while on the phone.. Nov 21 15:34:54 it's not bad Nov 21 15:35:00 but.. it needs polish badly Nov 21 15:35:05 i just wish my n95 8gb had a qwerty damn i wouldnt have to deal with the g1 lol Nov 21 15:35:26 from there.. bluetooth.. Nov 21 15:35:37 and imprived camera functionality Nov 21 15:35:38 vol: and also it's less visible, there's also a lot of discussions about supporting native code. Nov 21 15:35:41 *improved Nov 21 15:35:47 simple-g1, do you not like the G1 hardware? Nov 21 15:36:01 oh, I just scrolled up. Nevermind. Nov 21 15:36:07 oh touch pro discussion? Nov 21 15:36:12 is it true about hardware acceleration. that it's currently off Nov 21 15:36:16 cmonex no Nov 21 15:36:35 if someone asked about that -- in my experience the battery in touch pro is pretty good Nov 21 15:36:38 simple-g1, hardware acceleration for *what* ? Nov 21 15:36:44 htc dream i dont particularly like it Nov 21 15:36:55 ugly design? :D Nov 21 15:37:13 if you watch the video of the g1 playing flash video Nov 21 15:37:30 G1's not ugly, it's utilitarian. I don't dislike it. But sexier devices do make it pale in comparsion for looks Nov 21 15:37:32 jbq: Good, I hope that something comes of it. Being able to link against libraries for, say, OGG on the phone would be pretty nice for us, since currently we're using JNI to pass a filename back to the android layer, and using a MediaPlayer there. Nov 21 15:37:32 you notice transitions in the menus Nov 21 15:38:03 and it's a lot more snappier and responsive Nov 21 15:38:39 real access to some of the other libraries that are abstracted out in the android layer ("Yes, it's working" vs "Yes, it works, here is the raw information about how it is working") would probably make me kiss you : ) Nov 21 15:39:03 that would be probably because it's running with hardware acceleration on Nov 21 15:39:37 something that isnt present in the current android build most likely Nov 21 15:39:51 vol: that's less likely to happen. Expect support for native code to remain "JNI + bionic" for a while. Nov 21 15:40:21 jbq: srsly boo Nov 21 15:40:52 so just what are you going to "support" as far as native code goes? Nov 21 15:41:21 navaho code talkers Nov 21 15:41:27 i really hope next update comes with flash support and hardware acceleration Nov 21 15:41:31 vol: it's hard enough to develop and support APIs in one language. Once we have enough stuff available through the VM, we'll be able to look lower, but for the foreseeable future the supported side for advanced still will be at the high level. Nov 21 15:41:53 vol: like I said, JNI + libc. And even that isn't set in stone. Nov 21 15:42:45 Bleh, oh well. Nov 21 15:43:02 going further, I don't expect support for those to even be guaranteed, in fact I expect that we'll say "those will break in the future". Nov 21 15:43:12 oh good Nov 21 15:43:22 wait, just how can you break jni Nov 21 15:43:34 are you going to go off specs? Nov 21 15:43:40 i just want a g1 that the battery lasts more than 10hours on gms without running out =( Nov 21 15:43:45 i think mines broken Nov 21 15:44:06 had to charge it to 100% twice yesterda Nov 21 15:44:11 gms? Nov 21 15:44:24 jbq, I just read that thread about the apps on SD card, and just have one question: how does Windows Mobile do it? I can install apps to my SD card on my iPaq, but I've never tested how it behaves under those situations (pulling out the card, etc) Nov 21 15:44:25 sorry Nov 21 15:44:29 gms=gsm Nov 21 15:44:30 e.g. if you compile your code for ARMv5TE, don't expect any mechanism in place to deal with ARMv4T... or x86 for that matter. Nov 21 15:44:41 suppose i better hard reset the phone first Nov 21 15:44:59 see if its any naughty app thats killing the battery Nov 21 15:45:08 Impossible: run it until it absolutely won't turn on anymore. then charge it unintterupted for 8-24 hours Nov 21 15:45:34 Disconnect, my first charge was like that... plugged it in for 9 hours with a mains charger =( Nov 21 15:45:45 i have done around 4 complete charges on it Nov 21 15:45:46 KNY: WinMo is architected very differently from Android - and they've also come a long way (it wasn't long ago that WinMo could only store apps in RAM, not even on flash). Nov 21 15:46:03 it gets really warm in the area behind the ball Nov 21 15:46:41 jbq, okay. I'm not that well verse in WinMo, just used it now and then. Just figured I'd ask :) Nov 21 15:46:41 Impossible: not just first charge, its important that it run -completely- down and be an uninterrupted charge.. the default battery charge calibration is terrible. Nov 21 15:46:50 it gets really warm in the area behind the ball Nov 21 15:46:51 :? Nov 21 15:46:57 n/m Nov 21 15:47:23 hot Nov 21 15:47:30 i will give it another charge... Nov 21 15:47:41 but im sure lithium ion batteries dont like that Nov 21 15:47:48 ni-cad do Nov 21 15:48:21 the problem is that it is out of calibration. so it either reads critical low way too early or reads 'full charge' (and goes over to trickle-charge) way too late. or both. doing this recalibrates those limits Nov 21 15:48:43 Impossible: not just first charge, its important that it run -completely- down and be an uninterrupted charge.. the default battery charge calibration is terrible. Nov 21 15:48:56 AND, charge it with the usb charger to full up Nov 21 15:49:09 leave it charging after the green light is on.. Nov 21 15:49:18 for a couple hours. Nov 21 15:49:31 * Disconnect has never been in a set of channels where you replied to someone by cutting and pasting. its what, 10 lines up the screen? even connectbot users can prolly still see it :) Nov 21 15:49:42 seems like the norm here tho, its kinda bizarre to me Nov 21 15:49:50 it charges slower, but results in a longer lasting charge than with the wall charger Nov 21 15:49:57 heh Nov 21 15:50:03 Disconnect, I've never seen anyone else do it, either Nov 21 15:50:19 languish: ..seriously? Nov 21 15:50:25 Disconnect, yes. Nov 21 15:50:34 That reminds me, is there any sort of mechanism in place for preventing users from taking apks installed from Marketplace and putting them on another phone? Nov 21 15:50:37 * Disconnect would have expected them both to charge the same Nov 21 15:50:56 vol, where are they downloaded APKs stored? Nov 21 15:51:42 Disconnect, they don't. Some people are even using chargers that are rated lower than the G1 mains charger, for the same effect. Though I don't suggest doing that while the G1 is on. As it can pull more power than the charger and cause a problem. Nov 21 15:51:45 vol: you can't copy them off if the access permissions make the APK unreadable Nov 21 15:51:56 ah, good point Nov 21 15:52:00 unless your phone is rooted : ) Nov 21 15:52:01 ..unless you have root Nov 21 15:52:24 If you have root, right now, all bets are off. Nov 21 15:52:52 and you can bet they're working against that Nov 21 15:52:54 :( Nov 21 15:52:58 EVUL Nov 21 15:53:16 Once we have the HAND_GRENADE permission enabled, believe me, you won't be copying those apps anywhere. Nov 21 15:53:18 I'd like Android to move in a direction where it's possible to have copy protection without having to hide the apks (e.g. for backup purposes). Nov 21 15:53:26 fadden0: I thought that was called BRICK Nov 21 15:53:35 but hey, they do want their.. umm.. platrform.. to be accepted by other.. more.. paranoid..err.. conservative.. companies. Nov 21 15:54:28 languish: actually, in this case the goal is really to protect the developers. Nov 21 15:54:36 jbq: is there a thread about support for native code, like the one you pointed me to about sdcards? Nov 21 15:54:39 duly noted Nov 21 15:54:46 languish: you'll be happier if you accept that its no more or less open than the iphone, with the simple exception of 3rd party apps. Nov 21 15:55:04 (and just ignore the *!*@.google.com guys who claim otherwise :) ..) Nov 21 15:55:10 Disconnect, I never had an interest in the iphone, why should I accept anything about it? Nov 21 15:55:11 vol: not externally visible, no. The discussions started a while back, before the initial open-source drop, and continued on internal lists for now. Nov 21 15:55:25 Alright, thanks. Nov 21 15:55:55 We're trying to transition more of the discussions to the outside, but it's one more of those things that doesn't quite happen overnight :( Nov 21 15:56:04 languish: reread that with your english parser turned on. :) android and iphone (and symbian and..) are all pretty much the same as far as openness. you get an api, and outside of that you are at best unsupported, but in general actively fought. Nov 21 15:56:24 jbq, I'm supriced though that the .apk's weren't stored on an encrypted/hidden memeoryspace managed by the second processor..yadda yadda Nov 21 15:57:04 Disconnect, except we're being slightly less actively faught Nov 21 15:57:09 we're being.. guided. Nov 21 15:57:29 while they get their pigs in a row Nov 21 15:57:31 for bacontime Nov 21 15:57:33 languish: well, if the application processor can't access them, uh, it can't execute them either, right?!? Nov 21 15:58:02 Disconnect: we don't need to restart the discussion about G1 vs Android, do we? Nov 21 15:58:57 jbq: o hai. I never heard back from any kernel guys (I'm the one whose phone rebooted a few times, with a NULL pointer access) ... but on the other hand, the phone hasn' Nov 21 15:59:04 t rebooted since I got R30, so ... Nov 21 15:59:09 Disconnect: well of all of those, which would be the easiest to develop for? Nov 21 15:59:26 jbq, only fro execution.. Nov 21 15:59:34 offby1: unless you installed the cracked RC30, the root exploit was fixed, so no matter what you type it won't be execute Nov 21 15:59:37 the G1 is just taking some sweetened lumps in order to get some traction. Nov 21 15:59:39 not for file browsing Nov 21 15:59:47 vol: I'm not talking about the root exploit. Nov 21 15:59:51 oh, nevermind : ) Nov 21 16:00:02 offby1: I've been very busy and I haven't had time to push it through yet, sorry about that. It's on my todo list, but I've been going from critical task to critical task for days... Nov 21 16:00:09 I'll get on it. Nov 21 16:00:12 jbq: don't worry about it Nov 21 16:00:19 unix_lappy: depends on your experience. but they all do dev installs for testing and such, and wm/symbian let you do the same sort of distribution model thats so "revolutionary" in android Nov 21 16:00:50 i'd say actually that symbian/wm/bb is easiest cuz you can nail them all with only slight variations under j2me.. Nov 21 16:01:11 languish: but if you got root that wouldn't change a thing - you could still pretend that you want to access them for execution and get them out. Nov 21 16:01:40 Disconnect: Symbian + J2ME == easy? Nov 21 16:01:42 jbq yeah, but it would have been harder, taken longer, ..etc Nov 21 16:02:28 Disconnect: my coworker would like a word with you if you think it is easy. Nov 21 16:02:31 rather than "i've got root, co file.apk /sdcard/file.apk Nov 21 16:02:38 Actually, he has many words to say about symbian, none of them happy. Nov 21 16:02:39 co/cp Nov 21 16:02:40 languish: we gave the source code away. That tends to accelerate the timelines on security-by-obscurity breaching. Nov 21 16:02:41 languish: with an open-source OS, not a whole lot. And that's not the kind of thing that could could assume to work on all hardware platforms, so you'd only need one weak platform to break all the security. Nov 21 16:03:21 well.. you already have non-open source apps in the mix Nov 21 16:03:26 fadden0: never had issues in j2me on symbian, with the rare exception of apps that made assumptions about screen size. Nov 21 16:03:29 the market included? Nov 21 16:03:44 so I don't see why it makes a difference, as the purpose is to protect the app Nov 21 16:04:41 so any device that doesn't meet the hardware spec, doesn't get protected apps Nov 21 16:05:01 I'm not assuming all apps will or should be protected. Nov 21 16:05:22 languish: now that would suck in terms of openness. Nov 21 16:05:29 it already does :) Nov 21 16:05:44 gmail app is closed, market app is clised Nov 21 16:05:58 the gsm dsp is closed Nov 21 16:06:07 *shrug* Nov 21 16:06:12 languish: I think it'd be really lame to tell app developers "sorry dudes, no copy-protection for 90% of the market". Nov 21 16:06:34 well, for "new devices going forward" Nov 21 16:06:37 what stops people from copying jailbroken iphone apps around? Nov 21 16:06:44 nothing Nov 21 16:07:24 then again, apps can be locked to a phone.. or sim Nov 21 16:07:31 not that they can't be cracked Nov 21 16:07:32 languish: well, that's not the kind of behavior I'd like to have in the platform. there are many devices, many apps, but only one platform, and it makes sense to resolve as many of the common issues as possible in the platform. Nov 21 16:07:41 Disconnect: i'm guessing they implement their own copy protection if the believe it to be worthwhile. Nov 21 16:08:17 jbq, i agree with you.. I just don't see apps ever being protected realistically for any significant amount of time this way Nov 21 16:09:20 languish: I agree that there are some limits to how much protection can be offered... at all levels. But preventing casual copying would make app developers happier. Nov 21 16:09:27 they are 100% protectable so long as the platform is locked. which seems to be the approach thats going on now - on the one hand, "we're super open look!!" on the other hand "...but don't touch" Nov 21 16:10:02 * jbq sighs Nov 21 16:10:11 Disconnect, even I get the diff between the android platform, the hardware and the apps open/closed'edness Nov 21 16:10:35 I'm glad that right now the market is only free apps... Most of the mildly useful apps on the market would be $0.99 on the iphone it seems Nov 21 16:10:38 jbq: Do you know if there is any sort of timeline for the "Apps on SDCard" plan, by the way? Nov 21 16:10:50 or is it more on the lines of "when we're done" Nov 21 16:11:38 with it locked down (and a little more server-side work) you can use imei + pubkey to lock purchases to a particular device. so even if you fake up a system that tells each app it has a different imei it won't be able to break the key Nov 21 16:11:45 vol: there's no timeline. it's not even quite "when we're done" yet, because it's not even clearly the top priority yet for the people who I know would be capable of making it happen. Nov 21 16:12:17 Good morning #android. Nov 21 16:12:21 oh, interesting Nov 21 16:12:22 Disconnect: locking apps to a device would suck, though, because when you get a replacement or an upgrade you can't carry your apps with you. Nov 21 16:12:24 good morning ttuttle Nov 21 16:12:31 jbq: what are they working on instead, if you don't mind my asking Nov 21 16:12:38 * RyeBrye agrees - locking apps to specific phone = sucky Nov 21 16:12:48 Disconnect, imei is unreliable. locking to the sim.. 'eh maybe.. but if the sim is damaged.. :/ so locking to the user is what they're may aim for Nov 21 16:12:51 * RyeBrye also thinks - DRM is the devil's porn Nov 21 16:12:53 jbq: that can be managed through the locking mechanism though. (..or lock it to the sim) Nov 21 16:13:10 sup ttuttle Nov 21 16:13:19 same as apple manages all their itunes drm (sorry, but its the best example off the top of my head :) ..) Nov 21 16:13:47 Disconnect: locking to the SIM means that you can't use the same apps on multiple devices as well. It also means that the verification for access rights can't be done at install time. Nov 21 16:14:29 vol: I know that some are working on moving Android to a newer kernel, some are working on the IMF. Nov 21 16:14:30 jbq: if i can use the same app on multiple devices, whats to stop me from telling it that all my coworkers and i are the same user? Nov 21 16:14:47 Disconnect: that's why it's a hard problem ;-) Nov 21 16:14:53 btw just a note.. I've been chatting with a few different devs that do portable console homebrew and game dev.. and they've found the opengl-es documentation somewhat conflicting or confusing to find a good solid understanding of some of the issues they face in adapting to android dev Nov 21 16:15:15 they do eventually find the info, but it takes searching, and isn't in one place Nov 21 16:15:22 just wanted to note that Nov 21 16:15:28 are you intending to keep google balls-deep in it? cuz you can always lock it to a google account. key management through super-secret closed code, etc. Nov 21 16:15:59 Disconnect, I've already heard rumblings of an android device "with yahoo" Nov 21 16:15:59 Disconnect: well, market is a google app and it's tied to google accounts. Nov 21 16:16:02 (sure, i can create a goog account that we share.. but without decent email or multi-account gmail client etc its kinda a pita) Nov 21 16:16:25 languish: from? i know tmob went to yahoo for everything else the other day, but.. Nov 21 16:16:26 Disconnect, so not every android device will be googified Nov 21 16:16:29 Disconnect: but there's got to be a workable solution as well for non-Google merkets. Nov 21 16:16:42 Disconnect, not sure if I can say.. lemme look in to it Nov 21 16:16:48 fair enough Nov 21 16:17:02 oi Nov 21 16:17:13 mostly i was just saying "is it a twisted up version of that story from somewhere else?" Nov 21 16:17:14 Disconnect, I can say.. it wasn;t for a t-mobile device. Nov 21 16:18:06 so if it gets marketplace it still seems like there isn't an issue. new vendor works with goog on an id system that "impacts" the phone's usability. (in this case, if the integration is similar, yahoo account.) Nov 21 16:18:27 The key here is that it has to be friendly enough to users so that they don't hate it, locked enough that it's actually effective against casual copying, and open enough that it's not tied to google (or even to being installed as part of the system). It's a really hard balance to strike. Nov 21 16:19:39 it's unclear to me why a marketplace-type app has to concern itself with copying. shouldnt the app itself handle that? Nov 21 16:19:47 ie registration keys, etc Nov 21 16:20:27 who says it won't :/ Nov 21 16:20:38 oyeoj: because if it can be done in the platform, it's both easier for the app developers that have one less thing to worry about, and better for users who get a consistent experience across apps. Nov 21 16:21:50 (and if it's in the platform, new features can be added that don't break the assumptions, e.g. backups). Nov 21 16:24:17 * ttuttle <3 new builds. Nov 21 16:24:23 personally, what draws me to android is the lack of a centralized authority that one needs to depend on Nov 21 16:25:31 ttuttle: the ones that your NDA doesn't allow you to talk about? ;-) Nov 21 16:26:11 LOL Nov 21 16:26:42 jbq: Yeah, those ones. Nov 21 16:27:14 jbq: Notice how I am not discussing the new improved death ray functionality, nor the more stable mind control service. Nov 21 16:28:08 so the death ray can cause more than mild sunburn now? Nov 21 16:28:18 oyeoj: Yeah. It's adjustable in Settings. Nov 21 16:28:25 right on Nov 21 16:28:35 ttuttle: no, because that'd be covered by your NDA, and discussing those would be a breach of contract. Did you run into bugs with the teleporter? I lost an arm during initial testing! Nov 21 16:28:36 the deathray really kills the battery though :( Nov 21 16:28:50 * RyeBrye now realizes where that arm on his lawn came from Nov 21 16:29:08 jbq: Nah, the teleporter has been a godsend. It's snowy in Pittsburgh, so it's great to be able to teleport between classes. Nov 21 16:30:05 jbq: (Actually, it's wonderful out, and the build is indeed nice.) Nov 21 16:31:20 jbq: don't worry, we have plenty of ARMs Nov 21 16:31:42 fadden0: *groan* Nov 21 16:31:56 Be glad I didn't make the THUMB joke. Nov 21 16:32:16 * fadden0 is staying home with a cold today, and hence has time to compose terrible humor Nov 21 16:32:22 fadden0: :( Nov 21 16:32:41 Does ConnectivityManager give status information about signal type? ie: edge or 3g Nov 21 16:32:42 Well, my loss is your... loss. Nov 21 16:32:49 fadden0: Less distractions = more code. /me expects Bluetooth surround sound by Monday :P Nov 21 16:32:54 fadden0: (Feel better.) Nov 21 16:34:12 mpardo: See what NetworkInfo.getExtraInfo() returns. I'm not sure. Nov 21 16:34:24 * oyeoj searches for an avahi implementation on droid Nov 21 16:34:37 oyeoj: avahi is in C, I believe. You mean multicast DNS. Nov 21 16:34:48 yeah anything that implements zeroconf Nov 21 16:34:57 * ttuttle hates zeroconf. Nov 21 16:37:08 the mpd client is pretty great Nov 21 16:37:15 but it made me realize how much i rely on mdns Nov 21 16:37:16 Ooh, MPD client? Nov 21 16:37:23 pMix, i believe Nov 21 16:37:26 Nice. Nov 21 16:38:52 also, does anyone have a workaround for dual transfer in edge? Nov 21 16:39:05 someone said they had one but i think they were pulling my leg Nov 21 16:39:10 Dual transfer? Nov 21 16:39:15 yea Nov 21 16:39:20 voice + data Nov 21 16:39:25 Oh. Nov 21 16:39:34 That's physically impossible, I think, on EDGE. Nov 21 16:39:48 according to spec yes Nov 21 16:40:04 but people have come up with dtm solutions for other phones Nov 21 16:40:04 Um, it's *actually* impossible. There's no "workaround". Nov 21 16:40:14 Really? Nov 21 16:40:15 How? Nov 21 16:40:25 yea... my lg dumb phone has dtm Nov 21 16:40:48 Oh, so DTM is a special feature? Nov 21 16:40:49 Yes, it's actually possible, and it's "interesting". Nov 21 16:41:05 Oh, I see. Nov 21 16:41:21 the only way i could think to do it is interval transfer between the two signals somehow Nov 21 16:41:24 in a nutshell, if you schedule the TDMA packets so that voice and data fall on different timeslots, you can switch between the two for each packet. Nov 21 16:41:29 It works sorta like the Windows wireless driver that used power management to multiplex itself on two networks, except it relies on the network to time it properly. Nov 21 16:41:41 Clever! Nov 21 16:41:43 is there an android implementation Nov 21 16:41:57 mpardo: It sounds like it requires network cooperation, and, as of yet, I do not believe it is available on Android. Nov 21 16:41:58 or an example so i can figure out how to implement it on android? Nov 21 16:42:04 ah i see Nov 21 16:42:14 mpardo: You can't "implement" stuff like that. I think it would have to happen on the radio side of the chip. Nov 21 16:42:22 that's what i figured Nov 21 16:42:27 Sorry :-\ Nov 21 16:42:37 that guys was yankin ma chain i guess Nov 21 16:42:41 guy* Nov 21 16:42:42 i'm not in an 3g area, and i am fairly sure i've used data while talking on the phone Nov 21 16:42:47 maybe i'm mistaken... Nov 21 16:42:47 mpardo: Eh, it's quite possible he was simply confused. Nov 21 16:42:50 i've tried it Nov 21 16:42:59 oyeoj: doesnt work Nov 21 16:43:10 oyeoj: It can be pretty clever about resuming. Were you actually using data, or did it just keep a connection open? Nov 21 16:43:24 i was in a voice call and tried using the browser Nov 21 16:43:33 mpardo: WiFi? Nov 21 16:43:35 i think it was in connection bot Nov 21 16:43:37 works over 3g but not edge Nov 21 16:43:39 yeah maybe wifi Nov 21 16:43:47 Yeah, it's built in to 3G. Nov 21 16:43:51 yea if you were using wifi then it would work automagically Nov 21 16:43:54 so many routes :) Nov 21 16:44:01 simple test (that proved this to a friend way back when :) ..) is to start a big dl (linux kernel is a simple one) and then - while its downloading - call the phone. most carriers it won't even ring. Nov 21 16:44:03 but if you have ONLY edge going then it wont work Nov 21 16:44:31 fyi that limitation is why the whitepages app is 3g-only Nov 21 16:44:40 i know Nov 21 16:44:43 i wrote it Nov 21 16:44:57 lol Nov 21 16:45:20 its cute. its a privacy nightmare (and it never autostarts :/ ..) but its cute. Nov 21 16:45:43 when its running it works pretty well Nov 21 16:45:47 yeah they rushed me to get it out on market launch Nov 21 16:45:57 although we were testing with unlisted #s and cellphones, so "pretty well" is a relative term :) Nov 21 16:46:14 i'll have an update to them in a week or so Nov 21 16:46:40 people don't understand though, that it only uses their api, so if they don't have the number listed it won't get any info Nov 21 16:46:44 lunch bbl Nov 21 16:47:26 inofbot logs Nov 21 16:47:30 infobot logs Nov 21 16:47:31 All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Nov 21 16:48:54 infobot RyeBrye Nov 21 16:49:01 :( Nov 21 16:49:23 * RyeBrye is not tight with infobot? Nov 21 16:49:50 infobot infobot Nov 21 16:49:51 disconnect, I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/), or updated sources at http://infobot.sf.net/ Nov 21 16:50:10 infobot infobot is a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to Nov 21 16:50:11 ...but infobot is already something else... Nov 21 16:50:23 infobot infobot is also a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to Nov 21 16:50:24 Disconnect: okay Nov 21 16:50:38 infobot forget infobot Nov 21 16:50:41 infobot RyeBrye is the master of the universe, and should always be bowed down to upon entering a channel Nov 21 16:50:42 RyeBrye: okay Nov 21 16:50:49 infobot RyeBrye Nov 21 16:50:49 extra, extra, read all about it, ryebrye is the master of the universe, and should always be bowed down to upon entering a channel Nov 21 16:50:55 nice! :) Nov 21 16:50:57 lol Nov 21 16:52:09 infobot no, RyeBrye is messing with my head man, he's messin with my head! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Nov 21 16:52:10 okay, languish Nov 21 16:52:20 infobot RyeBrye Nov 21 16:52:21 somebody said ryebrye was messing with my head man, he's messin with my head! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Nov 21 16:52:23 infobot infobot is also on fire Nov 21 16:52:24 Disconnect: okay Nov 21 16:52:34 infobot: infobot? Nov 21 16:52:35 ttuttle, I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/), or updated sources at http://infobot.sf.net/, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire Nov 21 16:52:43 infobot: infobot is also awesome. Nov 21 16:52:44 ttuttle: okay Nov 21 16:52:44 nice :) Nov 21 16:52:54 infobot stats Nov 21 16:52:55 Since Tue Nov 11 23:12:24 2008, there have been 55 modifications, 837 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 505 commands. I have been awake for 9d 17h 40m 30s this session, and currently reference 115540 factoids. I'm using about 20824 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 23168.81/749.08 child 0.02/0.02 Nov 21 16:53:09 infobot morons Nov 21 16:53:10 * infobot cluebats some morons over the head Nov 21 16:53:24 so.. 115,540 factoids. wanna bet less than 1000 of them are useful? Nov 21 16:53:26 infobot android Nov 21 16:53:27 extra, extra, read all about it, android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible Nov 21 16:53:48 :( Nov 21 16:54:06 wow, infobot, you are cynical Nov 21 16:54:35 infobot DannyB is a lawyer, and a developer. It's inconceivable! Nov 21 16:54:36 okay, languish Nov 21 16:54:39 ttuttle: oh, /data/anr isn't just for application not responding even though that's what the name seems to imply Nov 21 16:54:50 kRutOn: Oh? What is it for? Nov 21 16:55:06 tuttle: Any time an application crashes it seems to write to the traces.txt file in there Nov 21 16:55:17 kRutOn: Ah. Nov 21 16:56:39 ttuttle: I accidentally released a not-yet-locked WakeLock and it wrote to traces.txt Nov 21 16:57:03 part of adb bugreport prolly Nov 21 16:57:15 Which is good since it might make it easier to get users to report problems with programs.. Nov 21 16:57:49 It'd be cool to have a Bug Reporter feature that sent email to the developer. Nov 21 16:58:12 ..from the device itself. Nov 21 17:10:19 i installed the wiki notepad by dan morrill Nov 21 17:25:41 ugh, you've gotta be kidding me. CursorWrapper doesn't have the Cursor as a protected member or any methods to manipulate it? *yargh*. Nov 21 17:43:49 cool! irc on g1 Nov 21 17:44:06 im bored at workizzle Nov 21 17:44:32 so you guys think we would see an irc client on the G1 soon? Nov 21 17:45:11 i hope so, i dloaded connectbot to see if I could get into anything that way Nov 21 17:45:20 not even into a mud Nov 21 17:46:22 ..muds don't use telnet Nov 21 17:46:26 er, muds don't use ssh i mean Nov 21 17:47:08 there's a beta irc client now Nov 21 17:47:14 i really want an onscreen keyboard Nov 21 17:47:28 on the market? Nov 21 17:47:29 yeah ssh to a linux host then telnet out Nov 21 17:47:34 no.. Nov 21 17:47:35 http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk Nov 21 17:48:14 nyt from Efnet is developing it. Also, michaelnovakjr's client should be available soon too Nov 21 17:48:30 at least in beta afaik Nov 21 17:48:35 anyone in the beta now? Nov 21 17:48:44 i tried out ircbeta.apk Nov 21 17:48:46 it sucked Nov 21 17:48:50 lol Nov 21 17:49:04 it's something until yours comes out :) Nov 21 17:49:13 check abck on it though, he keeps updating it Nov 21 17:49:41 true, i was going to stop development when i heard about it but then i saw it and realized it needs to keep going :) Nov 21 17:49:49 heh Nov 21 17:50:16 it's good to have more than one around anyway... see how each is implimented Nov 21 17:50:29 also, nyt's not open sourcing his Nov 21 17:50:34 languish: That's stupid. Nov 21 17:50:39 yeah its a shit client Nov 21 17:50:45 im on it now Nov 21 17:50:46 yet another reason to keep developing :) Nov 21 17:50:59 ttuttle, hrm? Nov 21 17:52:08 ttuttle, your statement there is deep and pendantic :/ Nov 21 17:52:19 languish: Heh. Nov 21 17:52:36 defeats the purpose of the g1 but if hes working hard for it.. Nov 21 17:52:48 to each his own Nov 21 17:53:19 the purpose of the g1 is to make money for t-mobile. Nov 21 17:53:26 lol Nov 21 17:53:37 so if app devs make money on their apps, *shrug* more power to them. Nov 21 17:53:51 android, is open source (mostly) Nov 21 17:54:02 yeah but there havent been any great apps made yet Nov 21 17:54:09 and for the devs that honor open source software, even more power to them Nov 21 17:56:18 his nick makes me want to put a 'c' in front of it and make it go fapfapfapfapfap around the channel Nov 21 17:57:03 languish: I think you meant "flapflapflapflapflap"... Nov 21 17:57:10 I did not. Nov 21 17:58:40 That which goes flapflapflapflapflap, I will not mention in this channel. Nov 21 18:01:38 languish: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=fapfapfap&l=1 Nov 21 18:02:07 I fear to tread where thou has googled Nov 21 18:02:47 and I'm well away of what "fap" refers to Nov 21 18:02:48 * Disconnect isn't the one running around the channel going 'fapfapfapfapfapfap'... Nov 21 18:02:50 *aware Nov 21 18:02:56 Neither am I Nov 21 18:03:08 that would be opter, with a 'c' Nov 21 18:03:41 Reading is fundamental, reading comprehension is essential. Nov 21 18:03:46 any new and exciting android news today? Nov 21 18:04:35 bert0, go read the channel log Nov 21 18:04:43 all will be revealed Nov 21 18:05:54 languish: shh, those were discussed under NDA ;-) Nov 21 18:06:37 No Damn Accountability? Nov 21 18:06:41 wut? Nov 21 18:07:51 how do I read the channel log? Nov 21 18:08:04 please, you make it too easy. Nov 21 18:08:20 *sigh* Nov 21 18:08:23 infobot logs Nov 21 18:08:23 All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Nov 21 18:09:16 rad, thanks Nov 21 18:09:46 a unit of rediation measurement had nothing to do with it. Nov 21 18:09:59 the goggles; they do nothing! Nov 21 18:10:03 fyi "infobot tell bert0 about logs" Nov 21 18:10:56 Disconnect, I know. Eventually I'll just alias it. Nov 21 18:11:07 Until then fewer keystrokes :) Nov 21 18:11:30 or, does it bother you? Nov 21 18:11:58 (consider your answer carefully) Nov 21 18:12:00 :) Nov 21 18:12:41 hi Nov 21 18:12:48 sup wastrel Nov 21 18:12:53 birds go flap flap Nov 21 18:13:38 It looks like T-Mobile is aware of a problem with the G1 batteries. But they haven't announced a recall or an official statement on it. They're just quietly sending customers that complain, free battery replacements, no questions asked. Nov 21 18:13:45 hmmmm Nov 21 18:14:01 Wait, battery problems? Nov 21 18:14:03 what is the problem w/ tmo batteries? Nov 21 18:14:07 * ttuttle wants extra batteries! Nov 21 18:14:56 mikechan, some people's batteries don't charge fully, even after deep cycling and whatnot. Also, it may have to do with the physical dimensions of the battery. The new batteries they send, are slightly larger than the original ones. Nov 21 18:15:23 Though I don't think the rated capacity is stated as being greater. Nov 21 18:15:45 Also, tmo reps informed me that HTC is making a larger capacity battery available. Nov 21 18:16:00 larger/greater Nov 21 18:16:06 So how do we get a better battery? Nov 21 18:16:12 Ooh, /me would like a larger one. Nov 21 18:17:04 where are you getting your information from? Nov 21 18:17:06 if you have a battery problem, call them.. at the voice promt say english, then G1, then yes. Then explain to the rep the problem you're having with the battery, after having deep cycled it. Nov 21 18:17:36 languish: /me is not a T-Mo customer ;-) Nov 21 18:17:44 mikechan, They're sending me new batteries, my friend already received his, and it's already on many forums. Nov 21 18:18:00 whats the capacity on the new batteries? Nov 21 18:18:04 The greater capacity battery information, came from 2 different tmo reps. Nov 21 18:18:20 mikechan, the replacement batteries, are not greater capacity, they're just physically larger. Nov 21 18:18:24 languish: Are the new ones greater capacity, or HTC is going to make a "jumbo battery" or something? Nov 21 18:18:28 interesting Nov 21 18:18:29 oh Nov 21 18:18:40 How long is the battery supposed to last? Nov 21 18:18:49 the greater capacity batteries htc will be "making available" as in SELLING.. I have no idea what the new capcity will be. Nov 21 18:18:50 like with wifi on and no talking? just leaving it on a desk overnight for instance? Nov 21 18:18:53 but they'll be around $55 Nov 21 18:19:16 RyeBrye, with wifi on, it may not last all night. Nov 21 18:19:30 yeah, it dies Nov 21 18:19:40 which is odd, I thought it shoudl fall alseep and turn off wifi Nov 21 18:19:46 languish: /me would pay for one. Nov 21 18:19:58 it depends also on what background stuff you have going on.. sync updates and such Nov 21 18:20:28 I don't have any rated statistics on how long the battery "should" last. Nov 21 18:20:37 ~120 hours Nov 21 18:20:43 if you let it idle Nov 21 18:20:53 but dying after 4 or 5 hours of jsut 3g, no bluetooth.. no wifi.. is too low Nov 21 18:21:12 (stock apps installed/running) Nov 21 18:21:49 I expect batter life will improve, but for some people, they were getting 2 or 3 hours with none of the additonal radio functions turned on.. Nov 21 18:21:54 *battery Nov 21 18:22:02 hence replacements Nov 21 18:23:28 Now I need to find a decent dual slot charging cradle Nov 21 18:24:37 but overall, I hope some company comes out with a battery that's "part of" the back cover.. hence expanding the physical size potential of the back cover.. and the capcity, greatly Nov 21 18:24:58 languish - like those old school nokia phones did? Nov 21 18:25:05 sure, whynot. Nov 21 18:25:12 Yeah, you could pack a huge battery on this beast Nov 21 18:25:14 I still have my old 5150 Nov 21 18:25:21 or a larger battery and a modified cover that can cover it. Nov 21 18:25:31 jbq, sure Nov 21 18:25:38 (hmmm, dremel + duct tape) Nov 21 18:26:02 yay, to go with my duct tape wallet Nov 21 18:26:03 :/ Nov 21 18:33:14 G1's getting the colorware treatment http://www.colorwarepc.com/p-170-tmobile-g1.aspx Nov 21 18:33:31 $175 for a dayglo G1 :/ Nov 21 18:36:53 I want to just carry around a car battery in my backpack with a mobile charger hardwired to it. Then the G1 can last 8 or 9 hours at least Nov 21 18:37:30 I'm talking with wifi here people Nov 21 18:37:40 and gps Nov 21 18:37:54 mmattice you know what I'm sayin Nov 21 18:39:05 tough crowd in here, I guess I should go market this idea to the iphone people Nov 21 18:39:08 I'd like my G1 to recover energy from my constant snapping the screen up/down Nov 21 18:39:28 It'd never run outta power Nov 21 18:40:03 Though, I think some people on the subway wanted to kill me the other day Nov 21 18:40:43 I didn't realize I had even been doing it, until after I stepped out. Nov 21 18:41:03 I was figuring their attitudes were racial at the time. :/ Nov 21 18:41:13 languish: yeah, it's addictive :o) Nov 21 18:41:18 :) Nov 21 18:42:18 so you could schwaack your way to a full battery? Nov 21 18:42:29 I'm thinking of putting one of those little audio thingamajigs like in record your own audio greeting cards.. on the back of my G1 screen Nov 21 18:42:56 so it makes the star trek door swooosh every time I open and slose it Nov 21 18:42:58 *close Nov 21 18:43:12 It'd have to be really loud Nov 21 18:43:20 surely you just just make the phone do that itself, it knows when it's opened and closed Nov 21 18:43:21 bert0, doubtful.. but I could likely extend the life of the charge quite a bit Nov 21 18:43:22 to make it louder than the "clack" noise it makes now Nov 21 18:43:36 RyeBrye, it would come after the clack Nov 21 18:43:40 CLASH *SWOOOSH* Nov 21 18:43:43 quit slamming it open and closed, you're gonna break it Nov 21 18:43:46 CLACK *SWOOOSH* Nov 21 18:43:56 maybe a small piece of felt would make that thing stop making such a loud clack Nov 21 18:44:06 I liek the clakc Nov 21 18:44:06 :| Nov 21 18:44:33 though, being able to stealth it might be good too Nov 21 18:44:51 it's called opening it slowly Nov 21 18:44:53 So you can SMS when you're on a CIA mission Nov 21 18:45:35 what your looking for is turbo-stealth sms Nov 21 18:45:36 Cullinary Institute of America mission? sounds yummy! Nov 21 18:45:40 other than pinch for zooming photos and pages, is there anything else that multitouch on the iphone does that is useful? Nov 21 18:45:57 rye: scrolling with two fingers Nov 21 18:46:10 oh wait, I'm thinking of MacBooks Nov 21 18:46:17 playing pong aganst another opponent on the same screen Nov 21 18:46:24 :D Nov 21 18:46:34 Yeah, I was thinking gestures - but yeah, 2 finger pong or 2-finger air hockey is cool too Nov 21 18:46:48 well Nov 21 18:46:53 is it limited to 2 fingers, or can you use 4? Nov 21 18:47:01 on the iphone, I don't know Nov 21 18:47:08 on the new macbooks, you can use 4 Nov 21 18:47:10 I'm thinking of guitar hero possibilities Nov 21 18:47:19 gesture wise.. I'd love to set the alarm time.. by doing clockwise and counterclockwise circles Nov 21 18:47:32 languish - can't that be done with one finger? Nov 21 18:47:37 i bet wer can do that now Nov 21 18:47:38 yeah Nov 21 18:47:51 rotating with 2 fingers is kind of a pain Nov 21 18:47:53 just thinking of gestures :) Nov 21 18:48:21 hrm, now what purpose would I use for rotating with two fingers.. besides the obious I mean.. Nov 21 18:48:35 I can just see setting a rotation point and rotating aroudn that point Nov 21 18:48:48 so you hold one finger down on a nose and circle around wth another finger Nov 21 18:48:52 man.. a game with cogs and sprockets Nov 21 18:48:54 but that's not realyl a gesture Nov 21 18:48:58 do you guys think it's possible to use the accelerometer as a wii emulator controller? Nov 21 18:49:10 bert0 yes Nov 21 18:49:20 bert0, to a point. Nov 21 18:49:20 You could probably hack bluez and make the thing pretend to be a wiimote - minus the whole IR camera thing Nov 21 18:49:43 yeah, I was a little disappointed the G1 didn't have IR Nov 21 18:49:48 hm Nov 21 18:49:59 I loved using my old pda's as remotes Nov 21 18:50:01 Yeah, for a TV remote that woudl be sweet - it could be like a logitech harmony on steroids Nov 21 18:50:37 could it be another HTC accessory? The ir attachment? Nov 21 18:50:47 maybe a bluetooth serial device that can output IR signals that can be glued to the phone would work ;) Nov 21 18:51:06 Did the t-mo dash have ir? Nov 21 18:51:12 I doubt it Nov 21 18:51:18 I had a dash and I don't remember IR on it Nov 21 18:51:30 * RyeBrye tries to surpress memories of the Dash Nov 21 18:52:13 let me know if you figure that out, I too would like to suppress those memories Nov 21 18:53:00 I'm going to work on a basic proof-of-concept g1 has multitouch demo that I can video this weekend - because some dumbasses still don't realize that being able to track 2 fingers independently is pretty much all you really need to get 90% of what you want out of a multitouch device Nov 21 18:53:41 I particularly enjoyed reading comments on androidcommunity where they were saying that the G1 is "definitely" not capable of multitouch Nov 21 18:54:07 you can track multiple fingers independently? Nov 21 18:54:14 not on the stock kernel Nov 21 18:54:27 i thought that the actual touchscreen hardware only allowed accurate tracking of one touch location Nov 21 18:54:28 but with real minor tweaks to the synaptics driver, yeah, it tracks them independently Nov 21 18:54:53 that would be really cool :) Nov 21 18:55:11 RyeBrye: things to do with 2 fingers: modifier. eg picsay - one finger means drag the prop around. 2 means rotate it. and pinch for zoom in/out. Nov 21 18:55:14 SOme of the parameters - like the width and the z parameter get clobbered in the driver now (maybe in the hardware, dunno) - so it takes the larger of the two fingers values for that and uses it Nov 21 18:55:27 Disconnect - I don't have the source for picsay :) Nov 21 18:55:39 right. but thats an example of gestures that would be useful. Nov 21 18:55:50 i noticed that when i held one finger on the device and tapped it with another, it recorded the tap at the location of the held finger Nov 21 18:56:17 synalx: it drops the 2nd finger input from the driver, so it sees the 'tap' gesture but only feeds userspace with the first finger Nov 21 18:56:26 ah, cool Nov 21 18:56:35 i'm glad it's not a hardware limitation Nov 21 18:56:38 synalx - http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/ has some debug logs of the 2 finger interactions... etc Nov 21 18:57:24 synalx - The g1 will probably never be officially a multitouch platform because HTC spec'ed it as a single touch device, so they can't exactly push software out that might not work on all G1's Nov 21 18:58:03 and other ones will probably do the gesture recognition in the hardware, but I don't see why basic gesture recognition couldn't be done in software with the 2-finger stuff and then passed into an event system the same way a multitouch piece would work Nov 21 18:59:37 yeah Nov 21 19:00:03 still Nov 21 19:00:19 The last two posters on this thread make me kind of chuckle: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f27/t-mobile-capable-of-multi-touch-7666/index3.html Nov 21 19:00:37 NOT supporting it in Android is odd, considering it's designed to run on a variety of devices, some of which may be spec'd for multi-touch Nov 21 19:00:56 eventually they'll support it Nov 21 19:01:00 so Android should have some sort of mechanism that apps can use to determine if the device they are on is mt-capable or not Nov 21 19:01:20 and no reason that same mechanism can't be used to distinguish between G1s that have a mt-capable screen and ones that don't Nov 21 19:02:02 Hi every 1 Nov 21 19:02:05 :D Nov 21 19:02:42 I want to know witch one devices (mobile phones) are captable with android..? nokia ? sonny ? ..etc?? Nov 21 19:03:20 T-Mobile G1... and that's it at the moment. Nov 21 19:03:59 they're working on a port to the neo freerunner, though Nov 21 19:05:28 I hope that the people working on that will contribute their changes back to the official android source code, instead of keeping a fork. Nov 21 19:05:50 they have, although the guy in charge of doing it submitted it as a mega-patch that will likely never get merged Nov 21 19:06:26 yes, I was involved in some of the reviews. the mega-patch made things harder, of course, but the big problem is that it broke the G1 builds :( Nov 21 19:06:32 in the words of my employer (developer of bash, readline, texinfo, and a few other things): "never take the mega-patch" Nov 21 19:08:17 Well, the mega-patch makes it much harder to figure out which part of the patch does what (or, it would if there was an actual change description, but in this case there wasn't). Nov 21 19:09:07 anyway, I hope that progress can resume on that front, especially once all of the latest android work gets open-sourced. Nov 21 19:10:06 jbq: I think everyone's motto is 'push maintenance upstream' :-) Nov 21 19:10:32 does anyone know if the g1 works as flash storage with xbox360? Nov 21 19:10:43 uhm :( Nov 21 19:10:45 like can i plug it in and play movies Nov 21 19:11:09 kRutOn: yup :-) but it's not as easy as it seems (e.g. if someone contributes a patch for some hardware that the upstream maintainers don't have access to, it's hard to maintain). Nov 21 19:12:56 jbq: I wrote a patch for the wireless subsystem to do enterprise authentication, but how do I know if it's in the new android work that is yet to be open sourced Nov 21 19:13:16 kRutOn: ..by submitting it to garrit? Nov 21 19:13:38 kRutOn: none of the patches that were submitted from the outside were merged into the internal system. They'll be much easier to merge on the git side. Nov 21 19:14:12 jbq: I have nokia n81 and i've installed eclipse plugin fot android.. i want run my app on device, but i dont have a T-mobile ... Nov 21 19:14:12 jbq: Er, I meant, will I know if it's duplicated work before the code release Nov 21 19:14:56 Is it possible to create widgets like the google search widget on the home screen? Nov 21 19:15:07 kRutOn: you could ask on the android-framework list (or is it android-platform, I never remember?) Nov 21 19:15:48 Okay, I'll try that or just submit it to garrit and see if it sticks. Nov 21 19:17:22 martyn-dev: i installed obj-c and i want to run my iphone app on my g1. can you help me? Nov 21 19:18:33 Disconnect: uhm. do you have a G1 ? Nov 21 19:18:54 yes. why won't it run iphone apps? i installed obj-c. Nov 21 19:19:24 uhm. i dont sure if yout iphone app will run on G1 Disconnect .. Nov 21 19:19:46 martyn-dev: ...and your g1 app won't run on an n81. Nov 21 19:19:59 do you ask me Disconnect ? Nov 21 19:20:23 martyn-dev: He's snarkily telling you that there is pretty much only the G1 now. If you just want to develop an application, use the emulator that's included in the SDK. Nov 21 19:20:24 martyn-dev: that is a statement. android does not run on n81. Nov 21 19:20:30 martyn-dev: it was a parable. The N81 doesn't run android applications, it's a Series60 phone. Nov 21 19:20:52 * Disconnect likes "parable" better than "snarky" but it was pretty much both. Nov 21 19:20:55 Disconnect: :( :'( thank you Nov 21 19:21:38 Disconnect: I still chuckled. Nov 21 19:22:40 so, How can I run app on a device, but i dont have T-mobile.. other device ? .. Nov 21 19:23:02 no other device Nov 21 19:23:04 not yet Nov 21 19:23:32 Disconnect: I have other HTC ... but not t-mobile.. other reference... it will work ? Nov 21 19:23:37 or no :( Nov 21 19:23:42 ..no. no no no no. only g1. Nov 21 19:23:53 :'( :'( :'( Nov 21 19:23:56 martyn-dev: The SDK comes with an emulator. Nov 21 19:23:58 thank Disconnect Nov 21 19:23:59 soon moko Nov 21 19:24:02 :D Nov 21 19:24:06 yeahƧ Nov 21 19:24:14 maybe someday touch/hd touch. maybe. Nov 21 19:24:26 and rumours of other carrier devices someday. Nov 21 19:24:30 martyn-dev: It's excellent enough to write the entire application. Nov 21 19:25:02 kRutOn: depending on your definition of 'excellent'. for instance, my app blows up when writing the db on the device but works flawlessly in the emu Nov 21 19:25:31 Disconnect: thank you .. Nov 21 19:26:20 Disconnect: didn't you read the label? "This Side Toward Enemy" Nov 21 19:26:35 Disconnect: Is it a large database? Nov 21 19:26:59 kinda. 16k Nov 21 19:27:18 150 records Nov 21 19:28:25 so its not exactly huge :) but its not tiny either. and it was created by the app in the emu, then populated (on the laptop) w/ sqlite3 (imported a csv) and put back. perms are good on both emu and device. Nov 21 19:28:44 good as in rw-rw---- app_80 app_80 as it should be. and it reads fine. Nov 21 19:35:25 kRutOn: re: your specific question about enterprise auth being worked on at Google, it's not :) Nov 21 19:41:20 http://www.eastwoodenterprises.co.nz/acatalog/buy_now.html Nov 21 19:41:39 is there a place to announce android Web applications? :-) e.g. http://geo.webvm.net/ Nov 21 19:42:21 wow, $125 for 5 stickers Nov 21 19:42:24 that's impressive Nov 21 19:45:40 hendry: what is your app? Nov 21 19:46:17 probably an FAQ, but is there any reason to wait for the next version of the G1 to buy, or should I buy now? Nov 21 19:46:39 oh, i see Nov 21 19:47:37 Keltus: the next version will come with live streetview. so you can use it to look for parking spaces and stuff in realtime. Nov 21 19:47:50 so unless you are doing development or something and want one now, you should wait 6 months. Nov 21 19:48:40 that's interesting. where are the articles about the next g1? Nov 21 19:51:12 Disconnect, I have live streetview--it's called my eyes Nov 21 19:51:48 in seriousness though, do you have a link on live streetview? I'm curious as to how that's possible. Nov 21 19:52:53 KNY: Disconnect is just messing with you Nov 21 19:53:05 romainguy, that's what I thought Nov 21 19:53:22 there is no "next version of the G1" announced Nov 21 19:53:32 I should tell people my phone has live street view and just turn on the camera ;) Nov 21 19:54:09 is there a widget that can render html markup? or does a TextView support this? Nov 21 19:54:26 which G1 Forum you guys use more often if i may ask? Nov 21 19:54:38 WiiR0cKz, you're lookin' at it :) Nov 21 19:54:58 lol Nov 21 19:55:15 was just curious Nov 21 19:56:43 gonna port android to the wii? Nov 21 19:56:45 :| Nov 21 19:57:02 Is there a way to get a serial number or something out of an Android device? Nov 21 19:58:01 jasonparekh: Thanks. Nov 21 19:58:12 "or something" like an IMEI, IMSI, wifi mac addy..? Nov 21 19:59:45 ttuttle, ANDROID_ID Nov 21 20:00:01 it's null on the emu; 64-bit hex on live devices Nov 21 20:00:19 raidfive: TextView does it with Spanned text. Nov 21 20:01:07 raidfive: You have to put HTML through Html.fromHtml to get it into Spanned first. Nov 21 20:04:04 thanks kRutOn Nov 21 20:04:21 it wasn't obvious looking through the docs Nov 21 20:05:13 raidfive: It doesn't support all kinds of mark-up either. E.g., table tags are ignored and such. Nov 21 20:06:54 alrighty, I just need bulleted lists and a few other things Nov 21 20:07:58 If that doesn't work, you can always use a WebView Nov 21 20:09:35 raidfive: According to the source, it doesn't look like it supports lists either. Nov 21 20:09:52 haha what?! :P Nov 21 20:10:00 what DOES it support then? :) Nov 21 20:10:01 It's mostly for text styling. Nov 21 20:10:10 yea, I was looking at WebView loadData Nov 21 20:10:30 it supports bullet lists Nov 21 20:10:35 Be careful of loadData. There is a bug that stops processing if the String contains # Nov 21 20:11:07 romainguy_: Spanned text or the Html.fromHtml method? Nov 21 20:11:28 hmm I don't know which method supports it Nov 21 20:11:33 I just know that TextView can do it Nov 21 20:11:51 Okay, I guess Html.fromHtml just doesn't handle that. Nov 21 20:12:10 so what is this other solution? Nov 21 20:13:09 romainguy_: Is there a way to store a Spanned in a resources file? Nov 21 20:13:36 if you use markup in your string it will become spanned Nov 21 20:15:29 KNY: How do I get it? Nov 21 20:15:58 ttuttle, it's in ... something; I'll find it Nov 21 20:16:20 String android_id = System.getString(this.getContentResolver(), System.ANDROID_ID); Nov 21 20:18:54 KNY: Thanks! Nov 21 20:19:32 ttuttle, no problem Nov 21 20:44:01 Has anyone seen this error when debugging remotely using gdbserver: Nov 21 20:44:04 warning: .dynamic section for "/home/sdgbuild/src/android/out/target/product/nomad/symbols/system/lib/libc.so" is not at the expected address (wrong library or version mismatch?) Nov 21 20:51:59 it's weird using my palm tx now, feels so big and flat Nov 21 20:52:23 fyi i hate apache mod_rewrite today. Nov 21 20:52:32 mostly i hate the disaster that our config is. Nov 21 20:52:53 and the perfectly logical inability to have two default virtual hosts :) Nov 21 20:53:54 I always hate mod_rewrite/ Nov 21 20:57:32 Would the best place to put multitouch stuff in the android platform (ignoring the source of where it is coming in) be to modify the motionEvent to be able to handle multiple fingers? Nov 21 20:57:35 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/view/MotionEvent.html Nov 21 20:57:58 i.e. a parameter on MotionEvent to indicate which finger number caused the motionEvent? Nov 21 20:59:38 I'd argue no, because pre-existing code that ignores that field would end up seeing warping around the screen as both fingers move without corresponding up/down proximity changes. Nov 21 21:00:57 It's ugly, but probably best to have a second event type for fingers other than the first one, with synthesis of proximity indications when the "first" finger is picked up (at which point one of the multi-touch fingers becomes the first finger, etc...) Nov 21 21:01:26 andyross - that makes sense Nov 21 21:01:48 (better yet would be to have designed the low-level API to extend gracefully to multi-touch, but sadly that ship has already sailed) Nov 21 21:01:57 you could though Nov 21 21:02:32 why not modify the motionEvent to give the extra finger parameter, and require an application to turn ON receiving events for fingers other than the first? Nov 21 21:02:41 which part of the repo is for the source for the api? Nov 21 21:02:56 andyross - what about new constants - like ACTION_MOVE_MULTI or something for any fingers other than the first finger Nov 21 21:03:05 i like that idea Nov 21 21:03:09 synalx: Yeah, that would work two. Basically make the API modal, with the default being single touch. Nov 21 21:03:15 er, "work too" Nov 21 21:03:52 and if there is the MULTI, then it could pass a parameter with an arbitrary finger number Nov 21 21:04:00 yeah Nov 21 21:04:29 considering that android may run on devices which DO support multi-touch intrinsically, i think that would be best Nov 21 21:04:30 glad to see your still messing with it RyeBrye Nov 21 21:04:39 The g1 I think would only have 1 extra finger (at least without doing more than just uncomment it), but other phones might have more Nov 21 21:04:57 does the iPhone support 3 fingers? Nov 21 21:05:03 yes Nov 21 21:05:07 i saw proof last night Nov 21 21:05:10 it supports at least 4 Nov 21 21:05:13 What app shows 4? Nov 21 21:05:26 that sounds like it'd be hard to use Nov 21 21:05:26 there is this game that is a combo of that dance dance game and a space shooter Nov 21 21:05:28 4 fingers on the phone Nov 21 21:05:33 it was 2 ppl Nov 21 21:05:37 2 fingers on each side of phone Nov 21 21:05:53 thats nuts Nov 21 21:05:55 The G1 touchscreen may very well have the capability of tracking more than 2 - just not in the current commented-out driver Nov 21 21:05:56 yeah lol Nov 21 21:06:00 it was pretty cool looking though Nov 21 21:06:11 For most practical stuff, 2 fingers is plenty Nov 21 21:06:13 2 girls each had both thumbs on the game Nov 21 21:06:26 and there were times where both had 2 presses at once Nov 21 21:06:38 Will there be support for the g1 in the future? (two fingers) Nov 21 21:06:48 RyeBrye is working on it Nov 21 21:06:49 For a proof of concenpt bit, I wrote in a character device into the synaptics screen that I mknode to mount at /dev/tsout - so I can poll it and get the current status of the screen Nov 21 21:07:03 nice Nov 21 21:07:11 Which is a lot easier than trying to dive in and figure out how to bubble up the event properly Nov 21 21:07:36 How hard would it be to implement multitouch into the android api? Nov 21 21:07:44 is it already there? Nov 21 21:07:45 but once I am grabbing the events in that crude way, I could create something that would throw proper multitouch events - which is why I was thinking about the api changes that might be necessary for a multitouch tracking Nov 21 21:08:51 It's not already there, they are working on it (maybe), there might be a roadmap for it (who knows) - but right now the stuff we have access to doesn't include any planning documents except for rough guestimates on future release dates for some features Nov 21 21:09:47 ..which, is i recall, covers only the next couple months :) Nov 21 21:09:57 lol Nov 21 21:10:09 Eventually, the story goes, there will be a dev branch opened up with the latest stuff that's being developed accessible - which would make working on the platform feel a lot nicer - since right now it's kind of like "I'll work on this, but maybe the thing has already been done anyway and is sitting in the secret Google development branch so my valuable time is being spent duplicating effort of someone else..." Nov 21 21:11:04 with any luck that kind of thing will happen soon - otherwise working on the platform is like trying to buy gifts for a blind date Nov 21 21:11:12 ... you have no idea what she will accept or what she even needs Nov 21 21:11:32 thats still true tho, since google (and then tmob) are gatekeepers of what makes it to actual devices Nov 21 21:11:42 true Nov 21 21:11:56 I forgot about how that's still true for 99% of the people on G1's Nov 21 21:13:58 i wonder if any of our google friends are allowed to comment on that (yes, we are working on it, or no we havent touched it yet) to narrow that down a little Nov 21 21:14:11 Fridays are usually slow in here for official info Nov 21 21:14:24 DarkriftX: usually they do Nov 21 21:14:47 you can email one of the sub-group mailing lists Nov 21 21:15:01 well, its normally more of a general "yes" but i mean a little more specific Nov 21 21:15:28 i know they are all bound by their ND's so not sure what they can tell us Nov 21 21:15:37 thanksgiving is next week Nov 21 21:15:39 i suspect we'd get more info except it usually degenerates into jbq insisting that they are working on being more open (regardless of whether he's been attacked on that front or not :) ..) Nov 21 21:15:41 everyone's going to be on vacation Nov 21 21:16:36 well, so far from what i can tell ill be happy with the g1 since i can get root Nov 21 21:16:50 not much else i will need, basic command line linux tools, a game or 2 and wifi Nov 21 21:16:52 DarkriftX: erm. can get root if you work at it and get one pre-rc30 Nov 21 21:17:36 yeah Nov 21 21:17:38 thats true Nov 21 21:17:47 but i think that wont be a problem Nov 21 21:20:11 Has anyone figured out how to automatically mount debian to the system after a reboot? Nov 21 21:20:23 whatshisname is workign on that Nov 21 21:20:30 he is tryint to automate the WHOLE thing Nov 21 21:20:42 awesome Nov 21 21:20:47 from what i read, debian install/use will be completely seamless Nov 21 21:21:02 yeah, i was excited when i read his explanation about i Nov 21 21:21:03 it* Nov 21 21:21:12 sweet, there are so many exciting things coming out on for the g1 Nov 21 21:21:16 yes Nov 21 21:21:41 i wanna contribute to the action so i've been teaching myself java Nov 21 21:21:50 lol Nov 21 21:21:57 i gave up on that Nov 21 21:22:01 i just document the good stuff lol Nov 21 21:22:07 hopefully that helps someone Nov 21 21:22:08 slowcoming but i'm making a lot of progress Nov 21 21:22:22 headfirst java is a big help Nov 21 21:22:33 i've got a copy of that right in front of me Nov 21 21:22:39 you should open it. :) Nov 21 21:23:33 already have. although i have to admit i haven't been reading it in order. I read it up until I had a good hold on OOP and now i'm experiementing Nov 21 21:24:28 And I figured out real quick that Eclipse is awesome Nov 21 21:24:30 i dont understand the whole connection between the code and the visuals Nov 21 21:24:33 so i gave up pretty fast Nov 21 21:24:41 ITechJunkie - if you think Eclipse is awesome - you should try intelliJ sometime Nov 21 21:24:56 the closest ive come to OOP in 10 years was making dialogs in mirc script (which i was damned good at) Nov 21 21:24:59 RyeBrye: never heard of that, but i'm gonna check that out now Nov 21 21:25:09 ITechJunkie - it costs money - but its worth every penny Nov 21 21:25:22 ITechJunkie - http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/ Nov 21 21:25:55 RyeBrye: thanks Nov 21 21:26:01 I kind of wish there were some good code generators for doing basic database management crap for Android development Nov 21 21:26:30 The db adapters are pretty much cookie-cutter code that you could easily generate from a simple dsl Nov 21 21:27:33 has anyone thought about doing a push to talk app? Nov 21 21:27:50 sound pretty easy using the Media API Nov 21 21:28:05 why don't you do it then : ) Nov 21 21:28:20 that's why i'm asking here first Nov 21 21:28:57 was wondering if ppl had any opinions on it. i'm just afraid it might be too slow Nov 21 21:29:16 cuz you'd have to transfer audio files over the data network Nov 21 21:29:29 but it woudn't cost minutes Nov 21 21:29:34 khert: it'd be cool if you could write some server side code to that... say you run it on your computer and you can turn it into a PA system or something Nov 21 21:30:16 i was thinking more along the lines of phone to phone communication, but any other output would work also Nov 21 21:30:26 * ttuttle is getting sporadic gps fixes indoors. The GPS chipset on this thing rocks. Nov 21 21:31:07 khert: either way, you could kill two birds with one stone like that. It would also be helpful when testing it out... unless you have more than one g1 Nov 21 21:31:53 well, you'd just use the same g1 for in and out, via a server Nov 21 21:32:13 the echo would get annoying tho :) Nov 21 21:32:26 khert: yeah, true Nov 21 21:32:44 khert: if you held the button down you'd be in for some mondo feedback Nov 21 21:33:19 khert_, I'd love a PTT function for when my wife & I are in different parts of the house Nov 21 21:33:40 (on phone, not keeping up sorry) Nov 21 21:33:46 how big of a house do you have, heh Nov 21 21:33:49 khert: The real challenge is setup time. If it's above 250ms, people get frustrated. Nov 21 21:34:01 getting run-around from t-mobile, they're trying not to honor the warranty on the G1 headset Nov 21 21:35:07 what do you mean by setup time? Nov 21 21:35:29 time from press to "beep" Nov 21 21:35:49 ok Nov 21 21:36:06 is there anyway to select text on a non editable textview? Nov 21 21:36:35 wow, t-mobile pullin a fast one. sounds like they're having a problem with HTC Nov 21 21:36:50 ? Nov 21 21:37:01 "We don't warranty all the items in the box" Nov 21 21:37:22 telling me "this is an HTC device, not a t-mobile device" Nov 21 21:37:36 and I have to call HTC to get warranty service Nov 21 21:37:40 (wtf) Nov 21 21:38:37 they only warrant the handset and the battery, and are not responsible for the other items in the box such as the wired headphones Nov 21 21:38:48 although I was told otherwise last night. Nov 21 21:38:53 *sigh* Nov 21 21:39:41 i downloaded the wiki notes app, i like it. Nov 21 21:40:04 is this the warranty you're supposed to pay for? Nov 21 21:41:44 no Nov 21 21:42:13 hehe Nov 21 21:43:00 did your salesperson tell you you needed to pay for the warranty? :] Nov 21 21:43:01 wiki notes app? Nov 21 21:43:01 you could technically make a 35mm headphone jack for the G1 by splicing one in place of the existing headphones Nov 21 21:43:11 DarkriftX: wiki notes i believe it's called Nov 21 21:43:16 i c Nov 21 21:43:21 if you type WikiWords it links to a new page Nov 21 21:43:26 synalx, i know :) Nov 21 21:43:32 i wonder if anyone's done that Nov 21 21:43:37 that's not the problem, Nov 21 21:43:40 i would if i had my soldering equipment here Nov 21 21:43:43 synalx, they have Nov 21 21:43:50 cool Nov 21 21:44:05 languish: you want my headphones, i'm never going to use them Nov 21 21:44:09 lol Nov 21 21:44:26 this is for my wife's g1. so I'm doing my due dollogence Nov 21 21:44:44 *dilligence Nov 21 21:44:49 hrm Nov 21 21:49:19 does anyone know the hex value for the bg color used in the dark theme? Nov 21 21:50:00 damn, it was one 'l' Nov 21 21:52:25 how can I go about telling whether the screen is currently portrait or landscape? Nov 21 21:56:00 nm, android.R.color.background_dark Nov 21 21:56:10 Activity.getRequestedOrientation() just tells me that it's SCREEN_ORIENTATION_SENSOR, which is of no help Nov 21 21:57:38 KNY: compare the width and height of the display? Nov 21 21:57:55 romainguy_, you're making me do it the hard way, eh? Nov 21 21:58:08 :) Nov 21 21:58:47 romainguy - it looking at the W and H of the display only going to tell you if the screen is already changed to landscape mode? Nov 21 21:58:56 s/it/is/ Nov 21 21:58:57 RyeBrye meant: romainguy - is looking at the W and H of the display only going to tell you if the screen is already changed to landscape mode? Nov 21 22:01:01 if you use android.view.OrientationListener you'll get notified when the orientation changes Nov 21 22:02:41 not sure if that gets used when you open the keyboard, or just rotate the phone Nov 21 22:03:10 khert, thanks for the suggestion Nov 21 22:03:12 anyone know an efnet server that works with tmo and mibbit? Nov 21 22:04:01 irc.prison.net maybe Nov 21 22:04:12 i haven't tried but they used to be fairly permissive Nov 21 22:04:31 tried that one... Nov 21 22:05:12 i tried like the 7 I could remember even the new shoutcast.com one. Nov 21 22:05:14 Is there a way to force the android plugin for eclipse to reset Nov 21 22:05:25 so that if it starts screwing up I can just restart that instead of all of eclipse Nov 21 22:05:39 so what app do I use too get java and or flash? Nov 21 22:05:56 no java or flash Nov 21 22:06:07 g4z00: for the G1? No java or flash for the browser. Nov 21 22:06:07 vol. have the question too... Nov 21 22:06:38 thanks. i figured since i couldnt find anything... Nov 21 22:07:05 is htere a flash player for iphone? Nov 21 22:07:06 but android is like built on java isnt it or something like that Nov 21 22:07:27 actually, android uses the same programming language as java. Nov 21 22:07:41 (but the similarity essentially stops there) Nov 21 22:08:13 g4z00: android uses Dalvik, which is kinda sorta java, but not. Nov 21 22:08:45 actually it's pretty much exactly java, but not. Nov 21 22:08:49 if you can code java.. you can code dalvik kinda thing? Nov 21 22:08:54 yes. Nov 21 22:09:08 You basically write in java to write your apps for Android Nov 21 22:09:23 Who's on first? Nov 21 22:09:24 shoulda learned java a year ago when I thought about it :) Nov 21 22:09:41 andyross: that's what I said, Who's on first! Nov 21 22:09:46 time to start now Nov 21 22:10:11 g4z00: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/ Nov 21 22:10:27 then, when you have half an idea what you're doing, http://code.google.com/android/ Nov 21 22:10:30 thanks heh! Nov 21 22:11:31 Im more hands on type... I need a teacher. I know a lot of people though learning java so I need to bug them to hang out Nov 21 22:12:12 the guy that tought me best though moved to OR Nov 21 22:12:12 :) Nov 21 22:18:56 HOLY CRAP. Nov 21 22:20:21 Getting a broken headphone for the G1 received within the last month replaced.. HOLY CRAP what a fucking headache, and it was only done as a "one time couttesy" Nov 21 22:20:25 *courtesy Nov 21 22:20:46 and even then, T-mobile is crediting it on our bill while HTC charged me for it via cc Nov 21 22:20:52 WHAT THE FUCK Nov 21 22:25:13 languish: What part of "telephone company" was unclear to you? Nov 21 22:27:08 I just did something I should have done in the beginning Nov 21 22:27:14 I dug up the box and manuals Nov 21 22:28:22 is there a way to launch the email app with a specified subject/body? Nov 21 22:30:21 I'd expect the Intent to accept the standard(ish) mailto format, no? Nov 21 22:30:39 * andyross googles: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2368.txt Nov 21 22:30:47 mailto:address?subject=test? Nov 21 22:30:49 ok hi hi Nov 21 22:30:52 something like that Nov 21 22:30:59 just saw my friend's google street view on his iphone Nov 21 22:31:06 it is better than the android streetview Nov 21 22:31:16 in 3 ways Nov 21 22:33:10 ? Nov 21 22:33:33 1. is that it has a little compass on the display 2. is it doesn't have the status bar or the application titlebar and c. it tilts to landscape without having to open the keybard Nov 21 22:33:37 keyboard Nov 21 22:35:48 Sigh Nov 21 22:35:52 fadden: still here? Nov 21 22:36:07 fadden0 as well, or anyone else who's done multithreaded debugging via gdbserver on android... Nov 21 22:36:20 I'm creating a java thread, with a native method Nov 21 22:36:42 the native method is basically an "init" method, and one of the libraries will make a call back to that java thread Nov 21 22:37:07 debugging on things called to and from the UI thread seems to work fine, but trying to debug anything off of the other thread just sigtraps. Nov 21 22:37:22 which is really wonderful, since gdb isn't actually picking it up, and it seems like something it should Nov 21 22:37:42 argh Nov 21 22:39:47 /who Nov 21 22:41:56 me Nov 21 22:42:16 orly? Nov 21 22:43:29 HTC's warranty in the T-Mobile manual specifically states "and tweleve (12) months for accessories (whether included in the mobile devices sales package or sold separately" Nov 21 22:44:02 and the company doing warranty support for HTC is telamon-corp Nov 21 22:44:03 :| Nov 21 22:44:13 speaking of which Nov 21 22:44:21 I need to cancel my protection plan for my RAZR Nov 21 22:44:34 lol Nov 21 22:44:54 but holy cow, did I just have a lousy consumer experience between t-mobile and HTC Nov 21 22:45:17 over a pair of cruddy wired headphones. Nov 21 22:45:42 (and if it were over my own, I'd chuck 'em and not worry about it, but this is for my wife) Nov 21 22:48:31 haha Nov 21 22:48:41 is there a way to manually upgrade to RC30 (have currently RC19) Nov 21 22:48:54 yeah, my kittens (part goat) have decided that it the wire was delicious. Now the mic doesn't work, nor does one of the earbuds :\ Nov 21 22:49:03 eldenz: not as far as I know, you need to get an OTA update. Nov 21 22:49:28 vol, who will invoke the update? carrier? Nov 21 22:49:55 or google directly? Nov 21 22:50:56 eldenz: the carrier Nov 21 22:51:29 so i'm out of luck if i imported it?^^ Nov 21 22:51:31 So, if you're not on t-mobile, you may well not be getting an update for quite some time. Nov 21 22:51:38 d'oh Nov 21 22:51:43 on the plus side, you can jailbreak your phone : ) Nov 21 22:51:57 but i can't write reboot in my emails ; ) Nov 21 22:52:44 sure you can Nov 21 22:53:08 heh Nov 21 22:55:32 vol and eldenz yes there is a way to force the updates Nov 21 22:56:18 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Nov 21 22:56:24 all you need to know is in there Nov 21 22:56:42 if you just want rc30, its on the OTA updates page, if you want the modified one and ability to get root, look for Keeping Root Nov 21 22:58:09 cool, what about downgrading, is that possible as well? Nov 21 22:58:23 nope Nov 21 22:58:27 which is why youneed to pick now Nov 21 22:58:30 root or no root Nov 21 22:59:18 i'll wait then and see what exactly root allows me to do :) Nov 21 22:59:29 why wait? Nov 21 22:59:32 nothing non-root won't Nov 21 22:59:33 choose, root or no root Nov 21 22:59:38 lol Nov 21 22:59:49 er Nov 21 22:59:53 that's not right. Nov 21 22:59:59 yeah, very not right Nov 21 23:00:05 root will allow you to do more than non-root, and there are no drawbacks that I know of. Nov 21 23:00:13 "everything non-root won't" is a little better Nov 21 23:00:26 aside from breaking your warranty, but you've imported so I don't think you're going to get that much out of it Nov 21 23:00:31 ok ;) what about screwing up during the update process? Nov 21 23:00:36 drawback to root, you have to manually flash updates (which you already have to do) Nov 21 23:00:44 screw up, start over Nov 21 23:00:49 rinse, repeat Nov 21 23:01:03 i have 2years warranty i think. a local shop imported it and would take care of sending it back for repair Nov 21 23:01:10 they wont know Nov 21 23:01:25 not many ppl will know how to tell if you have root access Nov 21 23:01:33 so you can't brick your phone? Nov 21 23:01:48 and if you do the modified recovery image, you can always flash an official update to remove root Nov 21 23:01:55 you can, but its not easy Nov 21 23:01:57 vol: no drawback only if root is secure Nov 21 23:02:02 fnordg1: :P Nov 21 23:02:07 yes, secure root if you get it Nov 21 23:02:12 I'm assuming you'll disable telnetd and sshd afterwards Nov 21 23:02:21 but that makes an ass of me, mostly Nov 21 23:02:21 and dont just type anything someone tels you to into a terminal Nov 21 23:02:23 haha Nov 21 23:02:32 rm -rf / Nov 21 23:02:35 lol Nov 21 23:02:41 vol suid sh is bad too ;p Nov 21 23:02:41 actually, since / is ro Nov 21 23:02:42 hehe ;) i know my way around terminals^^ Nov 21 23:02:46 rm -rf /data/ Nov 21 23:02:56 good Nov 21 23:02:59 android definitely does not like having an empty /data directory Nov 21 23:03:02 then read the page titled "keeping root" Nov 21 23:03:13 even that is fixable vol Nov 21 23:03:19 thanks to the modified recovery Nov 21 23:03:32 well, thanks to recovery in general Nov 21 23:03:34 thanks DarkriftX :) Nov 21 23:03:46 no prob Nov 21 23:04:06 now im off to find a pic of kristen stewart in her panties to put as my wallpaper Nov 21 23:04:15 lol, sorry, coudlnt resist Nov 21 23:04:20 <3 Nov 21 23:05:55 The G1 Perv Phone Nov 21 23:08:14 not phone wallpaper lol Nov 21 23:08:17 desktop :) Nov 21 23:11:42 You probably can't use FileObserver on a /dev character device to snag changes, can you? Nov 21 23:11:53 or rather, to snag updates? Nov 21 23:36:25 who was it that I helped with getting the cursor position the other day? Nov 21 23:38:09 lastlog doesn't reveal anything but i remember him asking ; ) Nov 21 23:38:22 i can use in my logfile if you don't have one though Nov 21 23:38:46 eldenz, I'm grepping through mine now Nov 21 23:38:56 I remember finding a solution, and now I need to use it :) Nov 21 23:39:43 ah, Selection.getSelectionStart() Nov 21 23:41:15 If anyone is curious, the wired headphones HTC replaces G1 headphones with under warranty are manufacted by Cotron, model# CHM-311STV08002 Nov 21 23:41:24 *manufactured Nov 21 23:41:24 damn, still no decent booting linux for axim Nov 21 23:41:41 :( Nov 21 23:44:19 languish, what was wrong with yours? Nov 22 00:08:17 KNY there's a short in the wired headphone call-answer button Nov 22 00:09:40 TMO and HTC were both telling me they did not warranty the wired G1 headphones. And yet, right there on page 48 of the T-Mobile Getting Started guide that comes in the box with the G1, it states they warranty the accessories for 12 months. Nov 22 00:10:01 Here's a copy of the guide in .pdf http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm30235.pdf Nov 22 00:10:11 herm Nov 22 00:10:20 can you buy the usb->headphone jack thing ? Nov 22 00:10:26 or is it only shipping with newer g1's? Nov 22 00:10:33 * grey- 's kinda annoyed he doesn't have the jack. Nov 22 00:10:35 You can buy it Nov 22 00:10:37 they're cheap Nov 22 00:10:40 how much? Nov 22 00:10:46 depends on where you buy it Nov 22 00:10:51 you can find them for $3 Nov 22 00:11:04 heh @ a tmobile store? Nov 22 00:11:05 price gouging stores sell them for $10 Nov 22 00:11:06 or ebay? Nov 22 00:11:17 ebay or 3rd party stores Nov 22 00:11:24 it's the same adaptor that is for other htc devices Nov 22 00:11:28 ah, kk. Nov 22 00:11:34 USBext to 3.5mm stereo Nov 22 00:11:44 pretty lame to not just have a headphone jack. *sigh* Nov 22 00:11:58 I'm looking forward to a samsung android in the future. Nov 22 00:12:03 but the g1 will get me there for now. (: Nov 22 00:12:06 HTC actually recommended g1depot and boxwave Nov 22 00:12:10 (online stores) Nov 22 00:12:15 huh, did the marketplace change the ToS or something? Nov 22 00:12:21 why? Nov 22 00:12:30 I just got asked to agree to it again. Nov 22 00:12:35 when I launched the market app. Nov 22 00:12:44 interesting, did you just update? Nov 22 00:12:51 errr, I hope not? Nov 22 00:13:02 * grey- is running a patch rc30 so he has su access. Nov 22 00:13:08 it's not asking me Nov 22 00:13:12 heh, k. Nov 22 00:13:14 me too Nov 22 00:13:14 weird. Nov 22 00:13:35 anyway totally unrelated question... Nov 22 00:13:48 yesterday i was asking about irc clients; and some people in here said they were working on them. Nov 22 00:14:03 I was wondering if any of the said irc clients were going to support irc over ssl (e.g. irssi) Nov 22 00:14:16 good question Nov 22 00:17:28 ssh to irssi works ;-) Nov 22 00:17:37 spikebike: hehe, this is true. Nov 22 00:17:37 heh Nov 22 00:17:51 as does presumably doing the debian install and installing irssi locally. ;) Nov 22 00:18:05 but I was wondering if anyone was working on an android/dalvik irc+ssl client. Nov 22 00:18:08 I still can't believe both t-mobile and HTC tried to deny warranty service though Nov 22 00:18:16 fucking screwy Nov 22 00:18:21 there's so much repetition in the marketplace. Nov 22 00:18:31 until I slapped 'em with their own warranty policy Nov 22 00:18:34 better to not start down a path others have already embarked on. Nov 22 00:18:55 yeah, there are 3 irc clients in the wings Nov 22 00:18:59 one of them will support it Nov 22 00:19:09 kewl Nov 22 00:19:10 I hope so. Nov 22 00:19:38 I'm looking forward to seeing michaelnovakjr's client Nov 22 00:20:05 how so? Nov 22 00:20:24 * grey- is unfamiliar with the name but is googling. Nov 22 00:20:27 He has the right mindset for android, and he's done good things with his other app(s?) Nov 22 00:20:36 he did the glance file manager Nov 22 00:20:43 ah, k. Nov 22 00:21:00 yeah for me this is more just functionality based. Nov 22 00:21:04 and worked with the connectbot guys on the file managing stuff to access keys off the asd card Nov 22 00:21:09 *microsd card Nov 22 00:21:12 irc/ssl -> bitlbee-otr for IM+otr. Nov 22 00:21:17 w/o ssl I could still do it Nov 22 00:21:41 but leaking plaintext between handset and server, while ostensibly pretending that the communications are encrypted is the sort of thing the nsa does, not me. Nov 22 00:22:00 connectbot is -great- ssh client. Nov 22 00:22:08 yeah, wouldn't want tmo catching wind of your inner pedobear Nov 22 00:22:12 :| Nov 22 00:22:14 hands down better than any client I've used on windows mobile, symbian, etc. Nov 22 00:22:17 haha Nov 22 00:22:31 well, it's just kinda lame Nov 22 00:22:35 ^_^ Nov 22 00:22:36 no otr support in any im clients. ;-/ Nov 22 00:22:47 and while gchat is I assume encrypted jabber. Nov 22 00:22:58 google has this great interface for searching things Nov 22 00:23:03 which is counter to the concept of otr. Nov 22 00:52:15 hmm Nov 22 00:52:30 Really? Nov 22 00:52:45 can the G1/android track usage for more than 1 battery? Nov 22 00:53:12 Dunno...define track usage Nov 22 00:54:19 you mean like some newer dslr's? Nov 22 00:54:30 that would be kinda odd in a phone. Nov 22 00:55:02 i need sleep, blanking on a word Nov 22 00:55:26 when you deep cycle the battery to ____ Nov 22 00:55:52 first letter? Nov 22 00:55:56 *shrug* Nov 22 00:56:04 sounds like? Nov 22 00:56:06 brain's shutting down Nov 22 00:56:06 'empty' ? Nov 22 00:56:29 it's to get the device to properly attune to the battery usage Nov 22 00:57:36 'tune it' ? Nov 22 00:57:40 dunno Nov 22 00:57:43 break it in Nov 22 00:57:44 etc Nov 22 00:57:53 calibrate, that was the word Nov 22 00:57:59 yeah Nov 22 00:58:04 does the g1 remember the calibration for different batteries? Nov 22 00:58:08 along with usage stats Nov 22 00:58:23 the G1 can't distinguish between its batteries. Nov 22 00:58:24 I thought the calibration was remembered on the battery Nov 22 00:58:34 jbq, ahh that sucks Nov 22 00:58:48 Fnord^-, perhaps, I dunno. Nov 22 00:58:57 now i know why you didn't want to say what it sounded like Nov 22 00:59:16 hur hur Nov 22 00:59:18 It also doesn't have a current meter, so its ability to monitor the battery is extremely limited and grossly imprecise anyway. Nov 22 00:59:26 hmm Nov 22 00:59:34 noted, and thanks Nov 22 01:00:15 ahh, space invaders clone in the Market Nov 22 01:00:29 so, if I have a class send a message to a handler of another class, for some reason if I invalidate the view in the activity which contains the handler, nothing happens Nov 22 01:01:21 is that expected, or is it a bug? Nov 22 01:26:28 meh, why do all contacts imported from gmail automatically get favourited? Nov 22 01:26:41 because they're AWESOME. Nov 22 01:26:44 is there a way to batch-undo Nov 22 01:26:48 ;< Nov 22 01:27:02 herm, I'm actually not sure. Nov 22 01:27:09 that didn't appear to happen to me. Nov 22 01:27:38 they're not imported, they're synced. You can organize them in gmail and the changes will be reflected on your G1. Nov 22 01:27:57 aaah.. lol. i put them in 'Starred in Android' and it didn't occur to me that this could mean they get a STAR Nov 22 01:28:23 i probably thought staring in ;< Nov 22 01:28:50 heh Nov 22 01:35:43 dudes Nov 22 01:35:54 sweet Nov 22 01:37:19 jbq: that current meter, is that a kernel driver limitation or is there just no such thing on the hardware? Nov 22 01:37:49 infernix: that's a hardware issue. Nov 22 01:38:06 as in, the other core has the data but we can't acces it kind of hardware issue Nov 22 01:38:16 or the fools forgot to put the chip in the phone type? Nov 22 01:38:49 The phone doesn't include a chip to measure current. Nov 22 01:39:19 * infernix sighs Nov 22 01:39:28 so you can't really know when it'll drop dead? Nov 22 01:39:30 is there a way for an activity to send itself an intent without crashing? Nov 22 01:40:20 infernix: there's enough hardware to measure voltage, so that's enough to have some idea of mow much power is left. If your phone tells you you have 2% left, it won't be long until it's entirely out. Nov 22 01:40:49 ok Nov 22 02:05:46 AT&T just charged me $175 "Contract Terminal Fees" Nov 22 02:05:52 PER LINE Nov 22 02:05:54 One contract. Nov 22 02:06:04 wow Nov 22 02:06:05 $600 total. Nov 22 02:06:06 teh fux? Nov 22 02:06:09 wtf? Nov 22 02:06:13 I had a one year. Nov 22 02:06:14 It was done. Nov 22 02:06:19 I was 2 months over the 1 year contracts ending. Nov 22 02:06:24 ??? Nov 22 02:06:26 crazy Nov 22 02:06:29 I switched to T-Mobile... Nov 22 02:06:35 And then this bill pops into my mailbox today. Nov 22 02:06:37 man Nov 22 02:06:40 I hope I don't get jacked like that Nov 22 02:06:45 my two year contract expired. Nov 22 02:06:48 called to cancel Nov 22 02:06:50 Complain to them! Nov 22 02:06:54 errr after ported number. Nov 22 02:06:55 wtf. Nov 22 02:06:56 ttuttle: Ohhhh, you think I wont? Nov 22 02:07:07 You can't charge me THREE contract terminal fees for ONE contract. Nov 22 02:07:11 greedy assholes. Nov 22 02:07:11 One non-existant contract. Nov 22 02:07:22 It was a god damn "FamilyTalk" plan. Nov 22 02:07:33 Er, it's three contracts. Nov 22 02:07:36 "Your account has been restricted because you have cancelled your wireless service with AT&T. You can only use myWireless to make the final payment on your outstanding balance. Access to other areas of myWireless is restricted for cancelled accounts. Nov 22 02:07:40 " Nov 22 02:07:41 $0 balance. Nov 22 02:07:42 wow. Nov 22 02:07:44 I think I'm good. Nov 22 02:07:47 that's fucked. Nov 22 02:07:56 ttuttle: I paid for everything, I am the only one who signed anything. Nov 22 02:08:24 Slackwise: /me would avoid arguing the "it's one contract, so there's only one ETF" angle. Nov 22 02:09:02 ttuttle: I'm going to argue where they came up with some magical extension to a 1 year contract that ended in July. Nov 22 02:09:28 Slackwise: Good. That's legitimate. Nov 22 02:09:46 Reeeally pissed. Nov 22 02:10:24 How do phone number transfers work? Nov 22 02:10:36 If I may ask anyone who is more clued in than me. Nov 22 02:10:59 I transfered my numbers, all 3, with no problem. Nov 22 02:16:10 is anyone on that has dealt with ActivityGroups? Nov 22 02:18:28 I think I found a bug Nov 22 02:50:56 What's the difference between using findViewById and LayoutFactory.inflate ? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 22 02:59:56 2008