**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 24 02:59:57 2008
Nov 24 03:44:57 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 24 03:56:11 <KemrinH> Can Android be used on a Razr?
Nov 24 03:56:16 <wastrel> no
Nov 24 03:59:08 <KemrinH> Ah. Okay. What sort of phone do I need for Android? I mean, does it only work on very high end phones, or are there inexpensive models which are compatible as well?
Nov 24 04:00:04 <wastrel> it only works on one phone, the G1
Nov 24 04:00:10 <jasta> KemrinH: it only officially works on one particular phone, the t-mobile G1.
Nov 24 04:01:33 <KemrinH> Ah, alright. Thank you ^_^
Nov 24 04:04:42 <KNY> only *currently* officially works on one phone
Nov 24 04:10:23 <infernix> bah
Nov 24 04:10:49 <infernix> i spend a few hours trying to get h264 encoding parameters and fail to get a working video
Nov 24 04:10:58 <infernix> yet some random mp4 off ted.com works fine
Nov 24 04:11:26 <wastrel> what about a web server
Nov 24 04:11:58 <wastrel> we could put a http server on and then could access offline html in the browser
Nov 24 04:12:29 <romainguy> jetty has been ported to Android
Nov 24 04:16:17 <PoohbaLT> should i be able to browse my phone on vista?
Nov 24 04:16:47 <jasta> PoohbaLT: the phone or the sd card?
Nov 24 04:17:29 <PoohbaLT> i can't get either
Nov 24 04:22:26 <wastrel> jetty seems to be a "webapp container"
Nov 24 04:23:15 <PoohbaLT> Widows could not install your Android Phone
Nov 24 04:40:01 <unix_infidel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqKCam7wgws
Nov 24 04:40:11 <unix_infidel> (speakers arent bad either)
Nov 24 04:44:18 <wastrel> yeah i downloaded that app
Nov 24 04:54:39 <Leeds> don't suppose anyone knows if the G1 can get calls while in an active GRPS/EDGE session?
Nov 24 04:55:06 <ttuttle> Leeds: I think so.
Nov 24 04:55:17 <ttuttle> Leeds: Unless that explains why I miss so many calls ;-)
Nov 24 04:55:18 <Leeds> I've had issues with older phones
Nov 24 04:56:16 <ttuttle> Leeds: The G1 is "usually" in an active GPRS/EDGE session, as (I believe) it keeps sockets open for Google Talk and other things.
Nov 24 04:57:33 <Leeds> yeah, but I've seen some evidence - with my old Treo, in particular - that it would, say, drop an IMAP IDLE email connection for an incoming call, but if you were using the web browser, it would send the call to voicemail
Nov 24 04:57:46 <ttuttle> Leeds: That's clever.
Nov 24 04:57:53 <ttuttle> Leeds: I don't know if the G1 knows how to do that.
Nov 24 04:58:11 <Leeds> it's dumb... but probably necessarily on a largely-singletasking device
Nov 24 05:01:07 <ttuttle> The G1 is supposed to be very multitasking.
Nov 24 05:01:13 <Leeds> indeed
Nov 24 05:01:24 <ttuttle> ...like, you're supposed to be able to get IMs while you're on the phone.
Nov 24 05:01:31 <DarkriftX> someone hacked auto rotate into the g1 :)
Nov 24 05:01:38 <DarkriftX> another good reason to keep root access :)
Nov 24 05:01:38 <ttuttle> In fact, I've wanted to use the web browser while I'm on the phone, but it doesn't work because I only have EDGE (I'm using it on AT*T).
Nov 24 05:01:42 <ttuttle> *AT&T
Nov 24 05:01:43 <Leeds> there's also the question of how well EDGE/GPRS can handle that - it might be a network-specific thing as well
Nov 24 05:01:45 <ttuttle> DarkriftX: Link plz?
Nov 24 05:01:57 <ttuttle> Leeds: Generally (without special support) EDGE/GPRS can't handle simultaneous voice and data.
Nov 24 05:02:29 <ttuttle> Leeds: There is a hack that can do it.  I'm not sure if it requires the cooperation of the network, but basically it makes sure the phone isn't required to be on two different channels at once (one for voice and one for data) by timing things well.
Nov 24 05:03:50 <Leeds> I'm having a minor argument with my gf, who forwarded her phone to mine last night, which annoyed me a bit... one of the reasons being that I was going to be online for at least some of that train journey, so even if someone did call, they wouldn't necessarily get through on my G1 :-)
Nov 24 05:04:11 <DarkriftX> i wish xda-devs would put rss feeds for each forum up
Nov 24 05:04:19 <DarkriftX> id like to put that on my bot
Nov 24 05:04:30 <wastrel> bot
Nov 24 05:05:15 <DarkriftX> yeah, bot
Nov 24 05:05:32 <DarkriftX> i have an eggdrop in my channel that spits out new forum/wiki changes from rss feeds
Nov 24 05:05:36 <plusminus_> HI ll
Nov 24 05:05:37 <plusminus_> all
Nov 24 05:05:44 <ttuttle> plusminus_: Hi.
Nov 24 05:05:46 <DarkriftX> so i dont have to keep hitting refresh on my sites to see new stuff
Nov 24 05:05:48 <plusminus_> anyone knows how to open a specific Menu-Item ?
Nov 24 05:05:49 <DarkriftX> hola plusminus_
Nov 24 05:05:52 <plusminus_> hi
Nov 24 05:05:58 <ttuttle> plusminus_: What do you mean?
Nov 24 05:06:20 <plusminus_> the menu that opens with the hardware "MENU"-Button
Nov 24 05:06:32 <ttuttle> plusminus_: How do you open one?  Click it?
Nov 24 05:06:35 <plusminus_> I know how to open that menu from code but not a submenu of it
Nov 24 05:06:39 <plusminus_> from code ;)
Nov 24 05:06:52 <ttuttle> plusminus_: Dunno.
Nov 24 05:07:20 <plusminus_> this.getWindow().openPanel(Window.FEATURE_OPTIONS_PANEL, new KeyEvent(KeyEvent.ACTION_DOWN, KeyEvent.KEYCODE_MENU));
Nov 24 05:07:26 <plusminus_> opens the menu ...
Nov 24 05:07:35 <wastrel> someone's converted droid fonts for use on palm os <3
Nov 24 05:07:50 <DarkriftX> yuck
Nov 24 05:07:57 <DarkriftX> oh well, let the copying begin
Nov 24 05:08:08 <DarkriftX> i almost puked when all the iphone themes came out for WM
Nov 24 05:08:16 <wastrel> well as soon as there's an ebook reader for android i'll stop using my t|x
Nov 24 05:08:22 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 24 05:08:24 <ttuttle> wastrel: Get coding ;)
Nov 24 05:08:26 <DarkriftX> do you have root?
Nov 24 05:08:29 <wastrel> no
Nov 24 05:08:32 <DarkriftX> oh :(
Nov 24 05:08:40 <DarkriftX> i used to have a command line pdf reader that worked well
Nov 24 05:08:47 <DarkriftX> only worked on text though
Nov 24 05:09:07 <wastrel> pdf is a terrible ebook format
Nov 24 05:09:22 <DarkriftX> i agree, i prefer text
Nov 24 05:14:14 <wastrel> woo that is pretty
Nov 24 05:14:32 <wastrel> i should just keep using this as an ebook reader. it's got a bigger screen, better battery life
Nov 24 05:15:32 <unix_infidel> Leeds: ahh so you got your G1 back ;-)
Nov 24 05:15:46 <Leeds> seems that way, yes
Nov 24 05:15:51 <BHSPitMonkey> Is there news yet of a non-G1 android phone hitting shelves?
Nov 24 05:17:16 <benley> no news yet
Nov 24 05:17:57 <unix_infidel> if there was news it'd be all over your major tech news sources.
Nov 24 05:18:46 <ttuttle> BHSPitMonkey: It'd be in the /topic, also.
Nov 24 05:19:23 <BHSPitMonkey> Figured.
Nov 24 05:22:14 <unix_infidel> earliest motorola + verizon were speculating was q2 09, but that's probably pushed back.
Nov 24 05:26:35 <KNY> is there a way to basically hijack the Dialer UI? I'd like to use the same UI but for my own purposes
Nov 24 07:31:43 <Neverender> why is there no 2d hardware acceleration on the g1?
Nov 24 07:31:51 <Neverender> and will there be in the future?
Nov 24 07:44:57 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 24 07:47:33 <romainguy> Neverender: because it's not simple to hardware accelerate SGL with OpenGL
Nov 24 07:47:46 <{GZ}dr4ev> how do i get irc chat on the g1
Nov 24 07:47:49 <romainguy> we have an early alpha of 2d hw acceleration but we ran into many issues
Nov 24 07:48:12 <romainguy> it's likely that if we do 2d hw acceleration it's gonna be with devices that support OpenGL ES 2.0
Nov 24 07:48:46 <Neverender> and the g1 does not, right?
Nov 24 07:48:55 <romainguy> no, it's OGL ES 1.0
Nov 24 07:49:05 <Neverender> ok
Nov 24 07:49:07 <Neverender> thank you
Nov 24 07:50:46 <eris> does ogl es 1.0 support point distance attenuation?
Nov 24 07:51:31 <eris> tried most all weekend to get my points to scale with distance and no matter what, they would not
Nov 24 08:04:08 <mib_3y0s9f> .
Nov 24 09:14:56 <Leeds> so... pacman?
Nov 24 09:17:23 <Leeds> anyone, pacman?
Nov 24 10:25:33 <theCarpenter> can you charge for Market apps yet?
Nov 24 10:26:30 <rip> Hi
Nov 24 10:27:39 <rip> how to play video on emulator
Nov 24 10:27:40 <rip> ?
Nov 24 10:27:49 <rip> can any help me on this ?
Nov 24 10:28:07 <theCarpenter> ....................................
Nov 24 10:28:08 <rip> 3gp or mp4 or some other format
Nov 24 10:53:27 <ActionParsnip111> hey all
Nov 24 11:06:17 <blegh45> Anyone know what "no hosts currently connected" error on connectbot means?
Nov 24 11:27:34 <Neverender> its just telling you you're not connected to anything
Nov 24 11:33:12 <blegh45> As in I dont have an avaliable interenet connection or that it cant connect to the specified host
Nov 24 11:33:22 <tric> is there any content and graphics available to use in press, books, thesis and so on . its sad to not to be able to use alot of those nice images
Nov 24 11:40:33 <Leeds> tric: creative commons...
Nov 24 11:40:49 <Leeds> blegh45: it means you are not currently connected to anything - it doesn't tell us why
Nov 24 11:41:19 <blegh45> Leeds: The error occurs immediately after i try and connect.
Nov 24 11:41:28 <Leeds> that's not an error
Nov 24 11:41:55 <blegh45> Ok well it says connecting to server or  w/e then slides over to displaying that message and does nothing
Nov 24 11:44:49 <Leeds> works for me...
Nov 24 11:44:58 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 24 11:46:16 <tric> leeds: i know about creative commons, but is any content on www.android.com released under a cc licence?
Nov 24 11:46:33 <dcordes-kais> Leeds hi, how's your g1?
Nov 24 11:46:35 <Leeds> tric: oh, you didn't say that...
Nov 24 11:46:51 <Leeds> dcordes: working, for now
Nov 24 11:46:56 <tric> hehe, of course i was referring to android stuff in #android ;)
Nov 24 11:47:29 <Leeds> http://www.android.com/branding.html
Nov 24 11:47:48 <Leeds> "When using the Droid Robot or any modification of it, proper attribution is required under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution license."
Nov 24 11:50:36 <tric> ah, thx. nice
Nov 24 11:51:56 <Leeds> could have been G1 stuff, linux stuff, tec.
Nov 24 11:51:57 <Leeds> etc
Nov 24 11:53:28 <gambler> -< it is not solely pornographic in nature
Nov 24 11:53:42 <gambler> so partially pornographic is ok I guess
Nov 24 11:54:43 <blau> hi
Nov 24 11:59:42 <synalx> so
Nov 24 11:59:58 <synalx> can someone tell me what i need to do to be able to connect my android phone via usb?
Nov 24 12:00:02 <synalx> to my linux laptop?
Nov 24 12:04:19 <synalx> nevermind, it's working :)
Nov 24 12:04:25 <blegh45> synalx its effectivey a usb drive
Nov 24 12:04:34 <blegh45> :d
Nov 24 12:04:42 <synalx> yeah, i didn't realize that android wanted me to select a 'mount' option on the phone
Nov 24 12:04:45 <synalx> before it'd work
Nov 24 12:05:20 <blegh45> Yeah, if u unmount the drive does android reclaim the sdcard on your phone? I have to remove the cable before I can access the sd card
Nov 24 12:05:33 <blegh45> Which is annoying if u want to leave it charging
Nov 24 12:05:38 <blau> yeah i agree
Nov 24 12:05:44 <blegh45> I take it u have the G1
Nov 24 12:05:48 <blegh45> same for u then :S
Nov 24 12:05:53 <synalx> yeah same
Nov 24 12:06:10 <synalx> how big is the internal sd card?
Nov 24 12:06:13 <blegh45> Best place to add a bug report for that?
Nov 24 12:06:24 <blegh45> 2gb on mine, although i heard some were coming with 8gb
Nov 24 12:06:28 <synalx> lemme check
Nov 24 12:06:40 <blegh45> should tell u in linux how big the drive is
Nov 24 12:07:39 <blau> mines 1 gig :(
Nov 24 12:07:49 <blegh45> Aww :D
Nov 24 12:08:10 <synalx> where is the card
Nov 24 12:08:21 <blau> theres a flap on the side
Nov 24 12:08:24 <blegh45> left of the trackball
Nov 24 12:08:28 <blau> nearest to the green phone button
Nov 24 12:08:34 <blau> open the screen
Nov 24 12:08:36 <blegh45> u have to open the keypad to get at it
Nov 24 12:08:37 <synalx> aha
Nov 24 12:08:48 <blau> and then use ur nail to pull the flap out
Nov 24 12:08:53 <blegh45> I couldnt get it out when i tried (not veryhard)
Nov 24 12:08:59 <blegh45> the card i mean not the flap
Nov 24 12:09:31 <blau> blegh, was it you who gave me the gc invite yesterday?
Nov 24 12:09:31 <synalx> 1gb
Nov 24 12:10:04 <synalx> pfft
Nov 24 12:10:12 * synalx looks up the price of 16gb cards
Nov 24 12:10:24 <blegh45> about £45 in the uk
Nov 24 12:24:21 <bert0> Anyone else have trouble with the alarm not going off?
Nov 24 12:24:34 <blau> bert0: ive seen reports of it
Nov 24 12:24:51 <bert0> This is the second time it's happened to me
Nov 24 12:25:32 <infernix> bert0: using Klaxon?
Nov 24 12:25:53 <bert0> I'm using alarm clock
Nov 24 12:26:14 <infernix> been testing klaxon, worked every time so far
Nov 24 12:27:39 <bert0> yea it is klaxon
Nov 24 12:29:39 <blau> i have trouble waking up one of my apps everytime
Nov 24 12:29:47 <bert0> infernix it has worked damn near every time for me too.  Except today and last wednesday.  I have alarms set for every day
Nov 24 12:29:49 <blau> is klaxon open source?
Nov 24 12:32:01 <infernix> bert0: well i haven't had it for that long but did synthetic tests, those worked
Nov 24 12:32:11 <infernix> i'll set an extra alarm for the time being too then
Nov 24 12:32:44 <blau> i think its somethign about how the sleep state works
Nov 24 12:32:51 <bert0> does it silence itself if the phone is screen down or something?  I faintly remember reading that I believe
Nov 24 12:32:56 <blau> do your alarms go off when you turn on the screen yourself?
Nov 24 12:33:00 <bert0> no
Nov 24 12:33:04 <blau> oh
Nov 24 12:33:33 <rip> how do i run video file on android emulator ? please any help out
Nov 24 12:34:39 <Leeds> rip: there is no video player in android - you need to install one
Nov 24 12:34:50 <bert0> I think my phone has to be screen side up for the alarm to work...I will test it quick
Nov 24 12:35:06 <infernix> bert0: negative
Nov 24 12:35:12 <infernix> works with screen down just fine
Nov 24 12:35:36 <blau> screen down stuff was just proof of concept
Nov 24 12:35:39 <blau> nothing implemented
Nov 24 12:35:43 <blau> afaik
Nov 24 12:35:45 <infernix> klaxon will snooze if you flip the phone, though
Nov 24 12:35:46 <rip> Leeds, from where should i install ? any links ? please provide
Nov 24 12:36:07 <blau> doubt itll ever be implemented, would suck the battery dry quickly
Nov 24 12:36:09 <bert0> hmm
Nov 24 12:36:12 <bert0> it did work
Nov 24 12:36:32 <blau> maybe its something like if its face down klaxon auto snoozes?
Nov 24 12:37:08 <blau> uploading a new ver of my app soon yay
Nov 24 12:37:20 <rip> Leeds, from where should i install ? any links ? please provide
Nov 24 12:37:36 <Leeds> rip: don't know, no, and no
Nov 24 12:38:04 <bert0> same alarm and all, just modified the time, but today when I picked up my phone to see the time, it had the Snooze and Dismiss screen up but was making no noise.
Nov 24 12:38:40 <bert0> Also, the snooze button was gray, and disabled
Nov 24 12:38:51 <rip> has any one tried playback of 3gp or mp4 files on emulator ? there is one application called api demos that do contain media player but when i try to run it it doesnt work .. please help me out...
Nov 24 12:40:16 <blau> anyone care to try it out real quick? when i upload it, i tried some new stuff i want to make sure doesnt cause any issues
Nov 24 12:40:43 <bert0> define "it"
Nov 24 12:41:01 <blau> turns screen on when you get an sms and allows a custom vibration
Nov 24 12:41:45 <bert0> I'll catch a link from the logs.  I have to stop to buy an alarm clock on the way to school
Nov 24 12:41:51 <bert0> later guys
Nov 24 12:43:59 <blau> its uploaded to market
Nov 24 12:44:44 <blau> it works fine for me, but im concerned since i only have one phone so its my dev phone as well
Nov 24 12:52:28 <tmzt> rip: they might be using dsp on the g1 to play video/some music, which is not in the emulator
Nov 24 13:18:55 <blount> bert0, blau, etc: there is an intermittent bug where the platform fails to wake alarmclock on an alarm trigger
Nov 24 13:19:13 <blount> a workaround for alarmclock is going in the next release
Nov 24 13:19:43 <blau> blount: would that be because of a bug in wakelocks?
Nov 24 13:20:04 <blau> cause i have an app that uses them and intermittently they wont work, although it appears to be more frequent with some users than others
Nov 24 13:20:35 <blount> probably... I haven't been able to nail down the exact cause
Nov 24 13:21:40 <blount> I've never experienced the failure myself, though others on the team here have
Nov 24 13:21:52 <blount> it's been a tough one to track down
Nov 24 13:24:23 <blau> ive gone nuts with it :(
Nov 24 13:28:15 <SplasPood> anyone else here get something other than a text file when doing a google csv export of their contacts out of gmail?
Nov 24 13:28:39 <blau> spasl, csv's are supposed to be text files basically
Nov 24 13:28:46 <blau> are you getting something else
Nov 24 13:29:06 <SplasPood> blau: exactly, they're supposed to be but I seem to get some undefined binary blob of... something
Nov 24 13:29:38 <blau> splas, i think theres an option to get the classic view of gmail or the contacts thing
Nov 24 13:29:39 <SplasPood> I thought maybe zip/gzip'd txt, but it's neither (not bz2 as well)
Nov 24 13:29:51 <SplasPood> blau: well the 'outlook' style export works fine, but..
Nov 24 13:29:52 <pandzilla> run file on it
Nov 24 13:29:53 <blau> if you do that, i think it uses different proessing to do whatever it does
Nov 24 13:29:58 <pandzilla> the file tool, I mean
Nov 24 13:29:58 <SplasPood> pandzilla: I did, it has no clue
Nov 24 13:30:06 <pandzilla> o'rly.
Nov 24 13:30:13 <SplasPood> ya
Nov 24 13:30:14 <pandzilla> interessting
Nov 24 13:30:15 <SplasPood> someone else try it
Nov 24 13:30:17 <SplasPood> i'll brb
Nov 24 13:30:20 <pandzilla> CSV should be ascii indeed
Nov 24 13:30:23 <blau> splas, got any foreign characters?
Nov 24 13:30:43 <pandzilla> I've seen various things being used as field separators etc, but it's definitely not supposed to be binary
Nov 24 13:31:14 <blau> i just did mine, it looks fine to me
Nov 24 13:34:32 <blau> anyone got a suggestion for references for applying for a job at google
Nov 24 13:34:54 <blau> ideally i guess some googlers would be good, but i dont know any :(
Nov 24 13:35:23 <blau> old college advisor/department chair a good idea?
Nov 24 13:35:43 <blau> or do you think work related references is the best approach
Nov 24 13:35:54 <blount> whoever you can round up who knows you or knows your work :-)
Nov 24 13:36:36 <pandzilla> your mum doesn't count
Nov 24 13:36:41 <blau> im even tempted to ask someone who has donated because of one of my g1 apps, but that seems risky since i dont know them personally
Nov 24 13:37:11 <blount> better if it's someone you know reasonably well I'd bet
Nov 24 13:37:33 <SplasPood> blau: maybe one or two here or there
Nov 24 13:37:38 <SplasPood> blau: I know one for a fact
Nov 24 13:38:03 <blau> pood: the foreign characters?
Nov 24 13:38:10 <blau> try deleting them, i had no problem exporting to csv
Nov 24 13:38:29 <blau> importing i found to suck majorly
Nov 24 13:38:44 <blau> i forget exactly what i wound up having to do to get importing working "nicely"
Nov 24 13:39:01 <SplasPood> yea?
Nov 24 13:39:22 <SplasPood> thats what I'm working on
Nov 24 13:39:39 <SplasPood> (and yea, just did it again... binary all the way.. strings can't even find a single character in it)
Nov 24 13:40:04 <SplasPood>  Google's CSV format (for importing into another Google account).
Nov 24 13:40:12 <SplasPood> thats the format I'm trying
Nov 24 13:40:21 <blau> thats exactly what i just exported to
Nov 24 13:40:24 <SplasPood> blau: got an example of the proper format?
Nov 24 13:40:34 <SplasPood> for importing, I mean
Nov 24 13:40:38 <blau> no issues, so its probably something of yours
Nov 24 13:40:46 <SplasPood> blau: yea
Nov 24 13:41:01 <SplasPood> i'll try from another machine in a bit
Nov 24 13:41:02 <SplasPood> brb
Nov 24 13:42:50 <blau> blount: when a job says new grad, but then mentions phd, ms, a plus, what exactly are they looking for?
Nov 24 13:45:39 <infernix> so i'm using my old HTC 3-in-1 plug (http://www.hkhightechpro.com/images/Ebay_photo/Johnnyhs321/O2%20XDA/Adapter/3in1AdapterHTC1.jpg)
Nov 24 13:46:08 <infernix> however when i plug in my headphones in the 3-in-1 adapter, the other side reports worsened voice quality
Nov 24 13:46:28 <infernix> as in, the headset that came with the G1
Nov 24 13:46:49 <infernix> anyone else tried a 3-in-1 plug yet?
Nov 24 13:47:00 <blau> nope
Nov 24 13:47:12 <blau> ive been looking for my 2 in 1 that came with my mogul
Nov 24 13:52:11 <dcordes-kais> infernix g1 has the tv out?
Nov 24 13:54:53 <infernix> nop
Nov 24 13:55:02 <blount> blau: I'd guess pretty much what it says
Nov 24 13:56:19 <blount> dunno how flexible they are in evaluating resumes
Nov 24 13:57:07 <blau> with new grad i think straight outta college first job, with a bs
Nov 24 14:02:06 <kRutOn> blau: Most people would like someone that has know you for years.
Nov 24 14:13:00 <blau> new ver of my sms alert app up
Nov 24 14:13:48 <Impossible> ^^ checking
Nov 24 14:14:52 <infernix> blau: which one is that?
Nov 24 14:14:55 <blau> dgalert
Nov 24 14:15:16 <blau> for some reason it didnt bump up in the by date list
Nov 24 14:15:30 <blau> new market bug i guess :(
Nov 24 14:15:53 <blau> think im gonna work on a new app alerter for all of my software
Nov 24 14:16:05 <blau> so if you use one piece, it will alert you to any new pieces
Nov 24 14:23:51 <KNY> blau, why not just use OI Update?
Nov 24 14:24:07 <KNY> and I don't think publishing updates to apps is supposed to bump it in the "by date" column
Nov 24 14:24:27 <blau> kny, it used to, and ive gotten used to it
Nov 24 14:24:31 <blau> lol
Nov 24 14:24:43 <KNY> I've never had mine bump
Nov 24 14:25:06 <KNY> if it did, people would just publish "updates" (versionCode++) constantly
Nov 24 14:25:10 <blau> this is the first time mine hasnt
Nov 24 14:25:23 <blau> kny, i thought thats what people have been doing :)
Nov 24 14:25:34 <KNY> haha
Nov 24 14:25:46 <KNY> I haven't seen that happen on my phone
Nov 24 14:25:54 <KNY> only actually *new* apps were at the top
Nov 24 14:26:25 <blau> kny, it definately used to, because ive had people tell me that they dont need to be reminded because they check the store so often
Nov 24 14:26:37 <KNY> ah
Nov 24 14:26:44 <KNY> well, I highly recommend OI Update
Nov 24 14:27:08 <KNY> it's one line in your manifest, and a three-line file on a server somewhere
Nov 24 14:27:20 <blau> oi update wont work for what i want i dont think
Nov 24 14:27:43 <blau> itll work to handle updates, but i want something that tells users of my apps that i have a new app
Nov 24 14:28:07 <blau> i want to build a brand! where if you like one of my apps you will almost definately want the others
Nov 24 14:28:52 <blau> and so each of my apps should let you know when a new app is uploaded, not just a new version of the app you are using
Nov 24 14:29:11 <ttuttle> blau: I do not want any apps I download doing that.
Nov 24 14:29:32 <blau> ttuttle: i do nont want you using my apps!
Nov 24 14:29:33 <blau> j/k
Nov 24 14:29:36 <ttuttle> blau: I did not download your app to help you "build a brand".  I downloaded it for the functionality *it* provides, not to provide you with marketing opportunities!
Nov 24 14:29:44 <ttuttle> blau: (Seriously.  I think many users would consider that spam.)
Nov 24 14:30:05 <KNY> I tend to agree
Nov 24 14:30:12 <blau> im going to try it anyway, and see what the response is
Nov 24 14:30:25 <blau> if its not liked, i'll kill it
Nov 24 14:30:39 <blau> or make it optional and disabled by default
Nov 24 14:30:54 <ttuttle> blau: Ask the user on first install if they want it.
Nov 24 14:33:14 <blau> yeah thats a plan too
Nov 24 14:39:53 <mpardo> is there a way to an app debug on the physical device?
Nov 24 14:40:07 <mpardo> or send to phone from eclipse rather than "run as..."
Nov 24 14:40:38 <jbq> Yes. There's an entry you add to your manifest to say it's debuggable, and from there you can debug your app the same way you do on the emulator. (I forgot the name of the entry in question)
Nov 24 14:40:42 <blau> i havent been able to get phone debugging working, mine just hangs, although i think you are supposed to be able to
Nov 24 14:41:59 <mpardo> k
Nov 24 14:42:22 <mpardo> i haven't bough a G1 yet... i'm buying one at lunch. I've been using the emulator
Nov 24 14:42:41 <mpardo> can i sent the app straight to my phone or do i have to host it and go that url
Nov 24 14:42:55 <blau> you can send an app straight to the phone
Nov 24 14:43:00 <blau> have it hooked up via usb
Nov 24 14:43:11 <blau> if you have the emulator up itll ask you which device to send to
Nov 24 14:43:14 <mpardo> can u do it via eclipse?
Nov 24 14:43:17 <mpardo> ah nice
Nov 24 14:44:39 <blau> yes
Nov 24 14:44:51 <blau> eclipse works great
Nov 24 14:45:07 <mpardo> cool... that's exactly what i'm looking for
Nov 24 14:45:22 <blau> http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware
Nov 24 14:45:25 <blau> theres the details
Nov 24 14:45:41 <mpardo> i had to bitch at sprint and got my etf down to $100 so i'm getting a g1 today
Nov 24 14:45:59 <blau> i kept sprint lol
Nov 24 14:46:05 <blau> hoping they get an android phone soon
Nov 24 14:46:10 <blau> although i doubt it :(
Nov 24 14:46:30 <mpardo> yea and then you have to buy the phone and pay $18 to switch it
Nov 24 14:46:33 <mpardo> i like gsm
Nov 24 14:46:39 <blau> i  like sim cards
Nov 24 14:46:42 <mpardo> yea
Nov 24 14:46:56 <blau> but sprint has better cell service
Nov 24 14:47:01 <mpardo> not for me
Nov 24 14:47:08 <blau> tmobile is pretty but in my area at least
Nov 24 14:47:13 <mpardo> i have to keep it in roaming 100% of the time
Nov 24 14:47:25 <blau> although we get great service in the basement at work with tmo lol
Nov 24 14:48:21 <blau> the market is still bumping up the dates on many of the comments for my apps
Nov 24 14:48:21 <blau> grrr
Nov 24 14:48:35 <mpardo> ?
Nov 24 14:49:00 <mpardo> i've noticed the "downloaded" number isn't updated accurately
Nov 24 14:49:12 <blau> for some reason, the dates on many of the comments for my apps keep changing to be more current
Nov 24 14:49:29 <blau> even though they probably shouldnt be
Nov 24 14:49:29 <mpardo> hmmm the market has obvious bugs
Nov 24 14:49:39 <blau> along with the downloaed numbers being off
Nov 24 14:49:41 <mpardo> or design flaws
Nov 24 14:50:05 <blau> and the ratings being off too, not synced between the developer console and the market
Nov 24 14:50:19 <mpardo> yea
Nov 24 14:50:35 <mpardo> i like on the link you sent: "If you're developing on Mac OS X, it just works. Skip this step."
Nov 24 14:50:54 <blau> yeah lol
Nov 24 14:51:18 <blau> osx has turned out to be the easiest and best performing for me
Nov 24 14:51:25 <mpardo> me too
Nov 24 14:51:38 <blau> for some reason ive had horrible performance issues with ubuntu, so i gave up
Nov 24 14:51:59 <blegh45> Does the G1 have any cpu freq scaling?
Nov 24 14:52:04 <blau> be sure to check out my apps when you get a g1 :)
Nov 24 14:52:11 <mpardo> what are they?
Nov 24 14:52:13 <blau> search the market for dg
Nov 24 14:52:22 <blegh45> ?
Nov 24 14:52:26 <blegh45> ah
Nov 24 14:52:30 <mpardo> check out mine too!
Nov 24 14:52:33 <blau> dgAlert, dgMoney, and dgQuickCut
Nov 24 14:52:41 <mpardo> but best dl it in a couple days when i put up an update
Nov 24 14:52:51 <blau> alert, turns the screen on and lets you set custom vibration for text messages
Nov 24 14:52:55 <blegh45> mpardo: what are u coding?
Nov 24 14:53:02 <mpardo> what app?
Nov 24 14:53:06 <blegh45> yeah
Nov 24 14:53:06 <blau> money is a expenditure register
Nov 24 14:53:11 <mpardo> Caller ID by Whitepages
Nov 24 14:53:18 <blegh45> US?
Nov 24 14:53:25 <blau> quickcut, lets you set search + letter to call or text someone
Nov 24 14:53:25 <blegh45> <UK
Nov 24 14:53:51 <blegh45> Is there any vibration for texts atm?
Nov 24 14:54:06 <blau> blegh: yeah, but its a simple one short bzzz
Nov 24 14:54:11 <blau> easy to not notice
Nov 24 14:54:18 <blau> and impossible to differentiate from an email
Nov 24 14:54:25 <blegh45> Yeah, was going to say ive not noticed it
Nov 24 14:54:34 <blau> it might not even be enabled by default
Nov 24 14:54:36 <blegh45> What about email vibration?
Nov 24 14:54:36 <mpardo> blau you have a G1?
Nov 24 14:54:40 <blau> i have a g1
Nov 24 14:54:41 <blegh45> yeah
Nov 24 14:55:51 <blau> g1 quickly became my fav phone, overtaking my sidekick 2 and palm centro
Nov 24 14:56:07 <mpardo> so you have tmob and sprint?
Nov 24 14:56:13 <blau> yeah
Nov 24 14:56:30 <blau> tmo is on a family plan, i started with my parents and grandparents a while ago
Nov 24 14:56:45 <blau> so its 4 phones sharing 500 minutes but free mobile to mobile and nights and weekends
Nov 24 14:56:59 <mpardo> only drug dealers have 2 phones btw
Nov 24 14:57:00 <mpardo> lol
Nov 24 14:57:01 <blau> and sprint i got in on their sero plan
Nov 24 14:57:12 <blau> so i felt it wasnt worth droppping when i went back to tmo
Nov 24 14:57:30 <blau> plus i use it for phone as modem when i travel for work
Nov 24 14:58:07 <mpardo> is there a tethering app for android yet?
Nov 24 14:58:17 <blau> mpardo: whitepages is your app? add a disclaimer about 3g service recommended or something
Nov 24 14:58:25 <blegh45> Theres methods that require root access
Nov 24 14:58:36 <mpardo> well... it says it in the description
Nov 24 14:58:42 <mpardo> and if you don't have 3g servie
Nov 24 14:58:54 <mpardo> but i didn't post it.... i just wrote it and sold it to WP
Nov 24 14:59:02 <mpardo> so it's up to them to write the description and stuff
Nov 24 14:59:09 <blau> oh it doesnt say it
Nov 24 14:59:10 <blau> lol
Nov 24 14:59:21 <blau> they need to add a line break or something
Nov 24 14:59:28 <mpardo> i told them they need to fix their description tho cuz a lot of the reviews seem to be confused
Nov 24 14:59:30 <synalx> why does it need 3G service?
Nov 24 14:59:43 <blau> synal: without 3g you cant have a data connection and a phone call ringing
Nov 24 14:59:49 <synalx> ahhhh
Nov 24 14:59:56 <mpardo> tmobiles 2g doesnt support dtm atm
Nov 24 15:00:02 <blau> mpardo: did they contract you to build it, or did you build it then sell it?
Nov 24 15:00:17 <mpardo> well i was building it... and i needed an extension of their api
Nov 24 15:00:27 <mpardo> so i asked for one and it turned into some sort of partnership thing
Nov 24 15:00:34 <blau> cool
Nov 24 15:00:40 <mpardo> so i'm an independent contractor basically
Nov 24 15:00:53 <blau> wish i could sell my money app to someone
Nov 24 15:01:21 * mpardo can't wait till you can sell apps on the market
Nov 24 15:02:40 <blau> same here
Nov 24 15:02:54 <blau> my ~$20 in donations isnt satisfying me
Nov 24 15:04:56 <KNY> if it's bothering you that much then set up a licensing system and make them buy a key online
Nov 24 15:05:00 <synalx> wow, 4G is supposed to provide 100Mbit+? wow
Nov 24 15:05:24 <blau> kny: too much effort on the user and me
Nov 24 15:05:39 <mpardo> lol
Nov 24 15:05:44 <KNY> if it's too much effort to get paid, then how badly can you really want to sell it?
Nov 24 15:05:49 <mpardo> i'm surprised people actually donate
Nov 24 15:06:06 <KNY> mpardo, same. I had someone e-mail me out of the blue asking for my paypal
Nov 24 15:06:24 <Leeds> I'm thinking the solution - once the market is up and running properly - is going to be having it up for a small fee on the market, or for free on an external website
Nov 24 15:06:34 <mpardo> i LOVE getting emails from users
Nov 24 15:06:47 <mpardo> validation lol
Nov 24 15:06:55 <KNY> mpardo, yeah, same here
Nov 24 15:07:00 <blau> ahah yeah same here
Nov 24 15:07:15 <KNY> nothing like waking up the morning after I published it and having 8 emails in my inbox with feature requests
Nov 24 15:07:21 <blau> id like to hear from the people who hate my apps though
Nov 24 15:07:21 <mpardo> i used to dev for the TI-89 calculator in high school
Nov 24 15:07:27 <mpardo> i still get emails about those apps
Nov 24 15:07:36 <blau> like someone said my ui for quickcut was onerous
Nov 24 15:07:46 <blau> it has 2 buttons and a dialog box
Nov 24 15:08:09 <blau> i dont get how it could be simpler
Nov 24 15:08:25 <mpardo> mind control = simpler
Nov 24 15:08:26 <mpardo> do that
Nov 24 15:08:45 <blau> shake control! it presents an option
Nov 24 15:08:52 <blau> if you shake it, it presents another option
Nov 24 15:08:55 <blau> otherwise it uses it
Nov 24 15:10:16 <blau> i need new logos
Nov 24 15:10:30 <blau> someone used a logo that looks alot like one of mine
Nov 24 15:10:42 <mpardo> blau isn't registration $25?
Nov 24 15:10:53 <mpardo> so you almost have ur reg fee back ;)
Nov 24 15:11:03 <blau> mpardo: yeah!
Nov 24 15:27:59 <KNY> I know I've seen it answered here before, but how do I hook into the "call" hardware button?
Nov 24 15:28:23 * blau doesnt know
Nov 24 15:28:54 <KNY> good god, why is java using 2.2 GiB of RAM?
Nov 24 15:29:07 <blau> android.intent.action.callbutton?
Nov 24 15:29:13 <blau> android.intent.action.call_button?
Nov 24 15:30:21 <blau> check the source code for dialer?
Nov 24 15:30:40 <vol> KNY: your max stack size is way too large? :<
Nov 24 15:31:10 <KNY> vol, whenever I use the emu, it just seems to grow and grow
Nov 24 15:31:12 <KNY> haha
Nov 24 15:31:17 <vol> : (
Nov 24 15:31:17 <blau> crap
Nov 24 15:32:16 <blau> i ordered 2 things with amazon, the same name but different items
Nov 24 15:32:29 <blau> and when i did thr eturn thing the wrong one got clicked off
Nov 24 15:34:49 <vol> gg
Nov 24 15:34:56 <KNY> ah, you just implement View.OnKeyListener and in onKeyDown(int keyCode, KeyEvent event) if keyCode == KeyEvent.KEYCODE_CALL then you have your call button
Nov 24 15:37:07 <KNY> wait, it seems even simpler than that.. I think you just override Activity.onKeyDown
Nov 24 15:37:40 <mschoolbus> when can i flash my treo 800w with android? :P
Nov 24 15:38:30 <vol> when you give me a canvas sack filled with dollars
Nov 24 15:38:35 <vol> the sack has to have a giant $ on it
Nov 24 15:38:44 <mschoolbus> lol hmmm
Nov 24 15:38:52 <mschoolbus> think my bank has them..
Nov 24 15:39:20 <blegh45> Is that a way to define the size of the sack?
Nov 24 15:40:31 <vol> MoneyBag.Sacks.CANVAS_LARGE
Nov 24 15:40:41 <blau> lol
Nov 24 15:41:03 <mschoolbus> dang, i was trying to reference socks....
Nov 24 15:42:05 <blegh45> :D
Nov 24 15:42:59 <blegh45> MoneyBag.Sack.Size = sizeof(GIANT $ sign)
Nov 24 15:43:12 <mschoolbus> i cant handle windows mobile much longer, i figured it would have improved since i last used it 4 years ago
Nov 24 15:43:35 <jasta_> mschoolbus: why would you figure that?  what other products has microsoft substantially improved with time?
Nov 24 15:43:58 <blegh45> Notepad
Nov 24 15:43:59 <mschoolbus> windows 95 ? :P
Nov 24 15:44:02 <jasta_> IE? no.  Windows? no.  Office? no.  Visual Studio? no.
Nov 24 15:44:19 <blegh45> Notepad yes, calculator yes.
Nov 24 15:44:24 <blegh45> Paint yes.
Nov 24 15:44:26 <blau> windows mobile is horrible
Nov 24 15:44:29 <vol> Notepad, no!
Nov 24 15:44:30 <blau> i like palm the best
Nov 24 15:44:32 <vol> Notepad has gotten WORSE!
Nov 24 15:44:44 <vol> It now does not handle unix style carriage returns
Nov 24 15:44:45 <blegh45> :)
Nov 24 15:44:53 <vol> if it's not \r\n, it's an ugly block
Nov 24 15:44:58 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 24 15:45:02 <jasta_> mschoolbus: Windows Mobile is actually a spinoff of _old_ Windows kernel code, from the 95/98 era.  They also just straight ported the Windows 95 solitaire app.
Nov 24 15:45:06 <tric> vol: did it ever support \n?
Nov 24 15:45:11 <vol> yes, it definitely did
Nov 24 15:45:12 <mschoolbus> the biggest pain has to be finding decent freeware apps, that actually run on a 320x320 screen
Nov 24 15:45:22 <vol> I think that it used \n and just discarded \r
Nov 24 15:45:47 <eldenz> the Ctrl+s support in Notepad was a huuuuge step ;>
Nov 24 15:46:00 <blau> alt + f then s was just as easy
Nov 24 15:46:01 <jasta> blau: i would say with confidence that the best mobile platform out there is Android.
Nov 24 15:46:05 <vol> the worst thing is that it's been duplicated in a 4k asm program
Nov 24 15:46:05 <mschoolbus> i just used alt f s
Nov 24 15:46:10 <vol> go look up TheGUN
Nov 24 15:46:11 <blau> jasta: now, id say its close
Nov 24 15:46:22 <jasta> between Palm?  uhm.
Nov 24 15:46:31 <synalx> i agree. android wins hands down
Nov 24 15:46:33 <blegh45> Are any of you using phones with root acces?
Nov 24 15:46:38 <jasta> Palm is just as similarly outdated as Windows Mobile.  THey hardly do anything to it.
Nov 24 15:46:57 <mschoolbus> i know there is a great interest to get android running on other devices. is this in progress?
Nov 24 15:47:00 <blau> palm has awesome navigability!
Nov 24 15:47:11 <blau> android comes close though
Nov 24 15:47:21 <blau> i love the hold a button to jump to an app shortcuts in palm os
Nov 24 15:47:27 <blegh45> Would that be a case of getting the davik vm onto any embedded linux device?
Nov 24 15:47:46 <blau> the 4 app launcher buttons on all the hardware are a big plus in my book too
Nov 24 15:47:51 <jasta> blau: im not familiar with that feature.  did you know that you can hold Home and get a list of recent apps tho?
Nov 24 15:48:01 <blau> jasta: i did
Nov 24 15:48:08 <vol> So, once again, has anyone here done multithreaded native C debugging on the emulator/device
Nov 24 15:48:16 <blau> the closest thing android has it search + button
Nov 24 15:48:22 <blau> which i like
Nov 24 15:48:30 <vol> because I'm having this problem: http://groups.google.com/group/android-framework/browse_thread/thread/590014fcac60b220
Nov 24 15:48:33 <blau> but im still a bigger fan of hold a button to launch an app
Nov 24 15:48:37 <jasta> blau: you even open the keyboard when you dont have to?
Nov 24 15:48:54 <blau> jasta: i do, i find it easier to use the keyboard than touch the screen
Nov 24 15:49:14 <blau> i use the trackball to navigate as much as possible
Nov 24 15:49:17 <jasta> bbl, getting ready for work
Nov 24 15:49:33 <jasta> blau: that must be agonizing :)
Nov 24 15:49:38 <unix_lappy> nod
Nov 24 15:49:40 <blau> pretty much anything but scrolling i use the hardkeys
Nov 24 15:49:54 <blau> im used to it i guess, i spent years on the sidekick, from the color to sidekick 3
Nov 24 15:50:17 <blegh45> double tap the trackball makes web browsing with it decent enough
Nov 24 15:50:21 <blau> and then windows mobile for a few agonizing months, then to palm os where i used the hotkeys and directional buttons
Nov 24 15:50:34 <wastrel> hotkeys
Nov 24 15:51:11 <wastrel> i don't open the keyboard much but i like having the buttons on the nav panel or whatever we're calling it
Nov 24 15:51:13 <mib_v8aup1> has anyone tried running the android images on QEMU 0.9.1 ?
Nov 24 15:51:22 <blau> one of my first apps for android was allowing you to set search + button quicklaunch shortcuts for text messages and phone calls
Nov 24 15:51:22 <wastrel> the tracball  - it doesn't like to scroll "down" anymore
Nov 24 15:51:26 <wastrel> anyone have that prob?
Nov 24 15:51:37 <mschoolbus> any chance i could replace WM with palm OS on my phone? until android is avail for me? (800w)
Nov 24 15:51:44 <blau> wastrel: i have to put more preasure on it
Nov 24 15:51:53 <blau> mschoolbus: i dont think so
Nov 24 15:51:57 <blegh45> blau by search o you mean google search?
Nov 24 15:52:06 <blau> blegh: the search button itself
Nov 24 15:52:09 <blau> on the keyboard
Nov 24 15:52:16 <mschoolbus> blau: thank you
Nov 24 15:52:28 <Poohba1> is there a program that will allow me to attach files to emails?
Nov 24 15:52:31 <blau> if you press that and a button you can jump to apps
Nov 24 15:52:36 <blegh45> ha, never used it b4 lush
Nov 24 15:52:49 <blegh45> nice !
Nov 24 15:52:51 <Poohba1> is there a way to save images from text?
Nov 24 15:52:54 <blau> with my program you also do set text messages and phone calls
Nov 24 15:53:00 <Poohba1> is there a way to save text messages?
Nov 24 15:53:10 <blau> pooh: like to send it again later?
Nov 24 15:53:20 <blegh45> set text messages? What like prefedined?
Nov 24 15:53:24 <mschoolbus> poohbal, forward them to all your friends
Nov 24 15:53:33 <mschoolbus> let the world mirror them
Nov 24 15:53:33 <Poohba1> no.  save it as in back it up to computer or even sd card
Nov 24 15:53:41 <blau> blegh: no, like search + m, opens up a text message to mike
Nov 24 15:53:56 <blau> or search + 2, speed dials your mom
Nov 24 15:54:04 <Disconnect> Poohba: no. backups aren't secure enough for android.
Nov 24 15:54:06 <blegh45> nice which app is this?
Nov 24 15:54:17 <blau> blegh: dgQuickCut
Nov 24 15:54:27 <Poohba1> what?  aren't secure enough?
Nov 24 15:54:28 <blau> its in the market
Nov 24 15:55:03 <unix_lappy> blau: can you use djquickcut to map physical keys to specific functions?
Nov 24 15:55:19 <blau> lappy, like the green phone button? no
Nov 24 15:55:32 <bluemyst> m having trouble running hciattach on the 0.9 emulator running the 1.0 android os... anyon who can help?
Nov 24 15:55:43 <blau> it only works in conjunction with holding the search button on the keyboard and another keyboard button
Nov 24 15:55:55 <blau> which, the android os already supports for apps
Nov 24 15:56:21 <Disconnect> Poohba1: just that. its not secure to let you have access to your data for backups and stuff. thats what the security model is all about.
Nov 24 15:56:32 <blegh45> dg alert needs a demo for the vibrate :D
Nov 24 15:56:39 <blegh45> maybe it demos it if u hold ure finger on it
Nov 24 15:56:46 <blau> oh, thats a good idea
Nov 24 15:57:00 <blegh45> ty ty :D
Nov 24 15:57:10 <blegh45> same to u btw :D
Nov 24 15:57:21 <mschoolbus> <3
Nov 24 15:58:00 <blegh45> Does android market update its apps?
Nov 24 15:58:50 <blau> blegh: what do you mean by that? auto updates? no, but dgalert and dgmoney will let you know when a new version is available
Nov 24 15:59:03 <blau> when you run them, they query my server for the latest version
Nov 24 16:00:24 <blegh45> So its down to the app devloper to implement such features..
Nov 24 16:00:31 <synalx> seems like a major omission
Nov 24 16:00:38 <blegh45> Android market wont alert u to out of date software :S
Nov 24 16:00:39 <blegh45> yeah
Nov 24 16:00:49 <blau> at the moment, maybe it'll change in the future, i feel like the market is woefully inadequate compared to the rest of android
Nov 24 16:01:28 <bluemyst> or maybe the market expects the app dev to get the app to check for updates as required!
Nov 24 16:01:47 <blegh45> jokers
Nov 24 16:01:58 <bluemyst> ;)
Nov 24 16:02:40 <blegh45> Maybe that was never the scope for it, but it would seem like a good feature to me. An alert not an auto update, that could be annoying.
Nov 24 16:03:25 <KNY> blegh45, check out OI Update
Nov 24 16:04:17 <bluemyst> so if i have 50 apps downloaded... and theoretically... every day 5 apps are updated... i get 5 alerts a day... even though.. im happy with the current version...
Nov 24 16:04:22 <bluemyst> i think that wiuld br annoying!
Nov 24 16:04:37 <bluemyst> *would be
Nov 24 16:04:50 <blegh45> Well just a single alert that signifies software updates are available..
Nov 24 16:04:54 <ttuttle> bluemyst: So you complain to the developers.
Nov 24 16:05:14 <blegh45> Then u can go see what updates are there and decide if u want to install them :D
Nov 24 16:05:25 <blau> even something in the market, that shows you a star next to everything you downloaded that has a new version
Nov 24 16:05:26 <blegh45> Just like most linux package managers.
Nov 24 16:05:44 <bluemyst> no... i think it should be a feature in each individual app to permit the end user track and to download updates if he wants to...
Nov 24 16:06:00 <bluemyst> i like the star idea...
Nov 24 16:06:00 <blegh45> Maybe, but then u have to browse the app too see it. U want a list of apps with updates imo.
Nov 24 16:06:24 <blau> blegh: you have a list of everything you downloaded easily available in the market
Nov 24 16:06:40 <bluemyst> yeah... there could be a different list ... of apps downloaded ... for which updates are available...
Nov 24 16:06:43 <bluemyst> that would be useful
Nov 24 16:07:01 <blegh45> Yeah, a filter on the main app list
Nov 24 16:07:07 <blegh45> of installed apps
Nov 24 16:07:15 <blegh45> show only apps with updates or such
Nov 24 16:07:27 <blau> although some people dont even know you can have updates
Nov 24 16:07:29 <bluemyst> yeah... that would be useful :)
Nov 24 16:07:36 <blau> you lose all those users with somehting that requires user intervention
Nov 24 16:08:14 <blegh45> thats the case now tho
Nov 24 16:08:18 <blegh45> Install and forget
Nov 24 16:08:19 <blau> yeah
Nov 24 16:08:31 <Disconnect> i'd love to have a list that says "here are your updates" (and for oi update to just notify "you have 5 package updates pending" instead of providing me with a page and a half of - currently invalid - update notifications every day)
Nov 24 16:08:41 <bluemyst> i like the install and forget model...
Nov 24 16:09:31 <blegh45> Just a list then of updatable apps, and optionally maybe an icon on the bar to signify that updates are available. That should give u best of both.
Nov 24 16:09:37 <bluemyst> @Disconnect... the list would be good... but i would like to see it only if i explicitly wish to see it... not otherwise...
Nov 24 16:09:47 <Disconnect> ..this isn't twitter. its irc.
Nov 24 16:09:58 <ttuttle> bluemyst: Yeah, drop the "@".
Nov 24 16:09:59 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: and only prompt when you're connected to wifi or jacked in via usb.
Nov 24 16:10:06 <bluemyst> ok... sorry
Nov 24 16:10:12 <ttuttle> bluemyst: No problem.
Nov 24 16:10:56 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: i'm ok with the notification, thats a great use of the notifications system. (and i do my updates on the train in the am usually, so no wifi/usb :) ..) but i don't need 30 of them. esp before it gets accurate :)
Nov 24 16:13:10 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: with most intricate things, preferences for update management / notifications need to have multiple transparent levels of granularity.
Nov 24 16:13:18 <wastrel> configuration management
Nov 24 16:13:24 <blau> you dont need 30 notifcations
Nov 24 16:13:34 <blegh45> No one likes update spam
Nov 24 16:13:40 <blau> 1 notification that updates saying, you have x available updated apps and when you click it, it opens a list
Nov 24 16:13:48 <blegh45> ^^ Exacylu
Nov 24 16:13:55 <blegh45> Perfect unlike my spelling
Nov 24 16:13:57 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: there is no reason to have 15 99%-identical notifications that all lead to the same app (oi updater)
Nov 24 16:14:36 <Disconnect> locale/power-whateveritwas integration would be nice for "I only check on wifi" or "check when i hit 3g in the morning but no more than once a day" etc
Nov 24 16:14:43 <wastrel> heh is the @ a twitterism . good to know.
Nov 24 16:14:47 <wastrel> never really used twitter
Nov 24 16:16:13 <ttuttle> It's used on Twitter and in some chat rooms/message boards.
Nov 24 16:17:45 <KNY> I bet this has been asked a million times, but is there a way to get the cell phone's number?
Nov 24 16:18:26 <mschoolbus> ask the person you stole it from or call someone else's phone? :P
Nov 24 16:18:47 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: i agree there, i enjoy the way firefox does it's update management for addons, plugins, etc.
Nov 24 16:18:58 <KNY> mschoolbus, programmatically, you smartass :)
Nov 24 16:19:07 <mschoolbus> oh, sorry, no :)
Nov 24 16:19:42 <KNY> "no" as in it's not possible?
Nov 24 16:19:56 <mschoolbus> I am sure its possible
Nov 24 16:20:18 <mschoolbus> but you are right, i am just being a smartass (bored at work)
Nov 24 16:22:25 <blau> hmmm intent isnt working as expected
Nov 24 16:22:36 <bluemyst> has anyone run bluetooth on the 0.9 emulator... (the 1.0 emulator does not support it)
Nov 24 16:35:47 <Slackwise> Grr, Chrome is acting up.
Nov 24 16:35:56 <gfindster_and> Helllo all, how is every one....
Nov 24 16:36:06 <Slackwise> I just had Google Notebook ask me for a login.
Nov 24 16:36:24 <vol> I'm having issues running gdb with the emulator
Nov 24 16:36:24 <gfindster_and> i am chatting from android phone
Nov 24 16:36:25 <Slackwise> @_@
Nov 24 16:36:30 <vol> but aside from that I'm fine :>
Nov 24 16:36:41 <gfindster_and> testing ....my GFindster application
Nov 24 16:36:49 <Slackwise> More annoyingly, YouTube links from text messages/chats are opening in Chrome.
Nov 24 16:36:55 <Slackwise> And then they're saying I'm missing a plugin.
Nov 24 16:36:58 * Slackwise sighs.
Nov 24 16:38:31 <gfindster_and> Helllo all, how is every one....
Nov 24 16:39:03 <offby1> *nod*
Nov 24 16:39:21 <gfindster_and> hi offby1
Nov 24 16:43:05 <gfindster_and> Helllo all, how is every one....
Nov 24 16:44:57 <blau> blegh: i implemented your feature request
Nov 24 16:45:03 <blau> you can pay me in candy or hugs
Nov 24 16:45:05 <vol> we are all horrible gfindster_and.
Nov 24 16:45:33 <gfindster_and> sorry I am testing my android application
Nov 24 16:49:49 <blau> crap my stupid version checker isnt working
Nov 24 16:53:25 <dd94300> can i assign some arbitrary number to my emulator?
Nov 24 17:01:24 <gfindster_and> anyone interested in testing android application
Nov 24 17:01:55 <eldenz> what kind of app?
Nov 24 17:06:24 <dd94300> After drawing 20 wrong pattern, Android locks user until user enters Google Log-In information. How can i test this feature? I am getting error: Unable to start service intent: GoogleLoginService..................
Nov 24 17:07:08 <vol> dd94300: go grab a phone and try it
Nov 24 17:07:25 <vol> I can tell you that after 5 tries it gives you a 30 second timeout period...
Nov 24 17:07:30 <KNY> yeah you won't be able to test that in the emu, afaik
Nov 24 17:08:21 <dd94300> vol: i am aware of that...i want to know what happens after 20 tries.........
Nov 24 17:08:35 <jbq> dd94300: are you trying to do that on the SDK?
Nov 24 17:08:37 <vol> well, I could test it for you in the name of science, but I don't really want to deal with that : P
Nov 24 17:08:47 <dd94300> noah with soure code images
Nov 24 17:09:14 <jbq> ah. That doesn't have the Google-specific bits either, so you won't be able to test is there.
Nov 24 17:10:35 <dd94300> vol: can you tell me how to test it?
Nov 24 17:11:16 <jbq> You'll need to test it on a G1.
Nov 24 17:11:34 <jbq> (at the moment that's the only place where the Google bits are available)
Nov 24 17:12:28 <dd94300> there is no other way around, using emulator?
Nov 24 17:12:45 <jbq> I don't think so.
Nov 24 17:14:09 <dd94300> all right, let me see.....thanks all for info.
Nov 24 17:17:29 <dd94300> is there anybody here from google?
Nov 24 17:17:43 <blau> i use google.com a lot
Nov 24 17:18:15 <dd94300> i mean....who work for google on Android............
Nov 24 17:18:30 <xsdg> dd94300: yes, there are at least a couple of us
Nov 24 17:18:56 <dd94300> ok,
Nov 24 17:19:05 <vol> there are several people (not me! don't message me! seriously!)
Nov 24 17:19:28 <vol> people with hosts that state nat/google.com are likely candidates
Nov 24 17:19:41 <dd94300> ok thanks vol
Nov 24 17:19:54 * jbq is a Google employee who works on Android.
Nov 24 17:19:55 <blau> dd: why do you ask?
Nov 24 17:20:14 <dd94300> so i can ask question to them..............
Nov 24 17:20:31 <blau> you can ask questions here, maybe some non googlers can answer?
Nov 24 17:21:08 <jbq> When it comes to Android, there's nothing inherently special about being a Google employee. Sure, some of us have quite some experience in that area, but that's it.
Nov 24 17:21:19 <dd94300> I did, since non goolgler sis not have answer , i thought may be someone from google can answer
Nov 24 17:21:36 <blau> oh, the 20 wrong pattern thing
Nov 24 17:21:51 <blau> i say you are going to need an actual device
Nov 24 17:22:47 <xsdg> err... jbq already answered that question
Nov 24 17:23:16 <mikey|> what does the nat stand for in nat/google...
Nov 24 17:23:25 <blau> network address translation?
Nov 24 17:23:27 <jbq> network address translation
Nov 24 17:23:30 <jbq> heh
Nov 24 17:25:44 <dd94300> looks like i have to get G1.......................
Nov 24 17:26:36 <dream_kill2> question : how to sync a git branch
Nov 24 17:26:47 <dream_kill2> whatever i do i still get only the master branch :(
Nov 24 17:27:56 <jasta> yawn
Nov 24 17:32:06 <jbq> dream_kill2: I believe that repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git -b release-1.0 (when initializing a new environment) will get you the 1.0 branch, but that's heavy-handed and I'm pretty sure that people who know git/repo better would be able to give you a shorter answer.
Nov 24 17:33:09 <dd94300> thanks all of you for earlier......going on lunch...see u all after an hour
Nov 24 17:33:12 <jbq> Anything special you want to do with another branch? At this point there are really only master and release-1.0, and release-1.0 is even more rough than master (and not very different anyway)
Nov 24 17:33:17 <dream_kill2> problem is that it doesn't sync the /kernel/msm/android-htc ....
Nov 24 17:34:05 <jbq> Ah. I believe that this is an issue of manifest, not an issue of branch.
Nov 24 17:34:13 <dream_kill2> aha
Nov 24 17:34:19 <jbq> (but I don't know how to help you further).
Nov 24 17:34:25 <dream_kill2> ta
Nov 24 17:34:33 <dream_kill2> i hate to keep download snapshots :D
Nov 24 17:34:35 <jbq> Maybe you could ask on the repo-discuss mailing list is you get stuck further than that.
Nov 24 17:34:35 <jasta> morning jbq
Nov 24 17:34:42 <jbq> morning jasta
Nov 24 17:34:57 <jasta> how was your weekend?
Nov 24 17:35:45 <jbq> jasta: didn't go quite as planned, which was very good. I spent yesterday at a race track, did quite a few laps riding with people who know how to drive in such conditions, that was fun.
Nov 24 17:36:09 <jasta> sweet
Nov 24 17:36:48 <jasta> mine didnt go as planned either.  i went to a concert on saturday but for some reason got hammer time drunk.  i had intended to take it easy and work on code all day sunday.  instead, i slept and felt like crap :)
Nov 24 17:37:58 <jbq> ewww. well, I hope it was worth it :)
Nov 24 17:38:37 <kRutOn> jbq: woo, autocross?
Nov 24 17:38:45 <jbq> kRutOn: no, full-size track.
Nov 24 17:39:08 <jbq> http://www.thunderhill.com/
Nov 24 17:42:26 <jasta> jbq: well, kinda.  it was nice to have the free time finally to do something like that.  and i havent hung out with my friends in what seems like an eternity
Nov 24 17:45:23 <ITechJunkie> Hey guys, I just came from the java channel... I can't really get a straight answer from those elitist. Will someone take a look at this and make helpful suggestions and or constructive critism? http://pastebin.com/m74458adc
Nov 24 17:47:13 <ITechJunkie> I know this isn't related to android, but I know that the android community is awesome so I figured i'd ask
Nov 24 17:48:19 <jalmeida> hi, exist any sample to work with GPS in android SDK ?
Nov 24 17:49:38 <mikey|> is there a list of things available via @android:/drawable?
Nov 24 17:50:59 <joeo> mikey|: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/R.drawable.html
Nov 24 17:51:06 <mikey|> cheers
Nov 24 17:51:08 <jasta> mikey|: the best way to view them is in the source or the SDK
Nov 24 17:51:12 <joeo> mikey|: it doesn't show the graphics, but that's the list of all of them
Nov 24 17:51:26 <jasta> everything in res/drawable* is available from android.R.drawable
Nov 24 17:51:35 <joeo> not everything
Nov 24 17:51:38 <jasta> that way you can preview them
Nov 24 17:51:48 <jasta> joeo: no?
Nov 24 17:52:06 <joeo> it's just the ones listed in res/values/public.xml
Nov 24 17:52:18 <jasta> oh, right.  well, only those ones you should be using anyway
Nov 24 17:58:45 <wastrel> hi hi
Nov 24 17:59:14 <languish> sup
Nov 24 18:04:17 <caseydavis> can we get Android on the HTC Touch Pro yet?
Nov 24 18:07:54 <budwaa> any way to make shortcuts to disable/enable wifi?
Nov 24 18:10:12 <mikechan> budwaa: download AnyCut app
Nov 24 18:10:50 <blau> thats just a shortcut to the settings page though
Nov 24 18:11:02 <unix_lappy> caseydavis: imho, the HTC Touch Pro is just a sexier version of the HTC Dream.  functionally they are identical.
Nov 24 18:11:17 * mikechan shrugs
Nov 24 18:11:22 <mikechan> mine actually turns on /off
Nov 24 18:11:40 <blau> oh?
Nov 24 18:11:45 <blau> maybe i need a nw version
Nov 24 18:12:15 <`vip> anyone messed with the visual voicemail app yet ?
Nov 24 18:12:16 <blau> howd you do it?
Nov 24 18:12:42 <mikechan> i forgot, ages ago
Nov 24 18:12:52 <blau> mike: was it a custom intent?
Nov 24 18:13:03 <mikechan> when you start the app
Nov 24 18:13:05 <blau> "make your own"
Nov 24 18:13:06 <mikechan> i think it gives a list
Nov 24 18:13:12 <mikechan> and wifi was there by default
Nov 24 18:13:14 <mikechan> i just pressed it
Nov 24 18:13:15 <budwaa> it does
Nov 24 18:13:19 <mikechan> and it made a wifi shortcut
Nov 24 18:13:21 <budwaa> its wifi settings
Nov 24 18:13:22 <mikechan> on my desktop
Nov 24 18:14:10 <blau> wifi settings isnt a toggle though
Nov 24 18:14:30 <blau> its useful, i have it
Nov 24 18:14:48 <budwaa> i want bang wifi off
Nov 24 18:14:53 <budwaa> bang wifi on
Nov 24 18:15:05 <budwaa> :D
Nov 24 18:15:12 <KNY> `vip, what's the visual voicemail app called?
Nov 24 18:15:52 <`vip> not sure i know it's made by PhoneFusion
Nov 24 18:16:04 <`vip> i just saw it on the frontpage androidcommunity.com
Nov 24 18:16:04 <blau> its visual for their voicemail service isnt it?
Nov 24 18:16:07 <KNY> ah, fusion voicemail plus
Nov 24 18:16:44 <KNY> blau, a second read through the description gives that impression
Nov 24 18:16:44 <KNY> boo
Nov 24 18:17:23 <blau> opera was released
Nov 24 18:17:25 <blau> and its horrible
Nov 24 18:17:46 <budwaa> hmm some ppl mention wireless control on anycut not there on mine
Nov 24 18:18:05 <blau> they didnt even try to make it act like an android app
Nov 24 18:18:19 <KNY> blau, is it in the market?
Nov 24 18:19:52 <Disconnect> blau: you mean opera mini? its j2me and its more about "look, j2me runner works" than "look, its opera"
Nov 24 18:20:11 <unix_lappy> it's a little hard to believe that the opera team couldnt manage to get hardware to run operamini on.
Nov 24 18:20:32 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: erm, given that -nobody- could get hardware to run diddly on, its not surprising at all.
Nov 24 18:20:57 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: hmm?
Nov 24 18:21:16 <unix_lappy> i mean at this point in time.
Nov 24 18:21:39 <unix_lappy> that article is of course dated april 10th, but it's surprises me that they didnt at least do some cursory testing after the device release or provide an update.
Nov 24 18:21:42 <KNY> blau, I love the URL entry field. fill_parent/fill_parent for sure
Nov 24 18:21:43 <Disconnect> mailing lists are -still- full of devs saying things like "i'm not in the usa, can you test for me?" and "i am not a tmob customer, someone help".
Nov 24 18:22:14 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: yea a development device wouldve been REALLY nice imho.
Nov 24 18:22:30 <unix_lappy> but in a world where leeds can get his G1 on the grey market....
Nov 24 18:22:36 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: its unmodified opera mini. opera team has basically nothing to do with it other than saying "hey, cool, j2me runner works" (and that got updated at least twice since the g1 release, so -someone- is testing stuff..)
Nov 24 18:23:21 <RyeBrye> Staples will have 4 GB microSDHC cards for $9.99 on black friday as one of their early-bird specials
Nov 24 18:23:29 <budwaa> Can i make a shortcut to the panel u get from holding down home key?
Nov 24 18:23:32 <KNY> Android Opera isn't *that* bad
Nov 24 18:24:26 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: they come up way cheaper than that all the time
Nov 24 18:24:39 <Disconnect> budwaa: thats not a shortcut panel, thats a recently-used-apps list
Nov 24 18:24:50 <Disconnect> so you can make (temporary) shortcuts there by opening apps :)
Nov 24 18:25:00 <unix_lappy> ditto, the headache of multiple smaller cards would far outweight the cost  of paying a couple percent premium for an 8GB or 16GB card.
Nov 24 18:25:09 <budwaa> i want that recently used app list ot pop up from a shortvcut
Nov 24 18:25:18 <Disconnect> ahh.
Nov 24 18:27:21 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: ecost and newegg both have them starting at $6
Nov 24 18:27:31 <RyeBrye> Disconnect - cool, I'll check them out
Nov 24 18:27:37 <Disconnect> (regular price)
Nov 24 18:27:50 <blau> kny: it is in the market
Nov 24 18:27:57 <KNY> blau, yeah, got it
Nov 24 18:28:05 <blau> scrolling is awful and completely unandroid
Nov 24 18:28:48 <ttuttle> Disconnect: /me has applied invisibleSHIELD. It's nice, although a pain to install.
Nov 24 18:29:20 <caseydavis> i was wondering if the invisibleshield thing worked or not
Nov 24 18:29:21 <RyeBrye> The bestskinsever.com stuff is similar to invisishield. I applied it... it took me about 30 minutes
Nov 24 18:29:26 <Disconnect> ttuttle: cool
Nov 24 18:29:55 <budwaa> Any way to get quicklaunch menu up?
Nov 24 18:29:55 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: yah. invishield is basically indestructable - its the protective plastic they put on the leading edge of .mil helicoptor blades :)
Nov 24 18:30:19 <Disconnect> caseydavis: i have an associates account but i also have it on my g1, e90, mbp and the wif's bb.
Nov 24 18:30:47 <ttuttle> Disconnect: that's a foolish thing to say. kevlar, in sufficiently thin layers, becomes useless too.
Nov 24 18:30:51 <caseydavis> cool.. is it hard to put on.. what is it like a varnish?
Nov 24 18:31:03 <caseydavis> i have a touchpro, and i saw they had it for that now
Nov 24 18:31:13 <caseydavis> and $20 isnt too bad
Nov 24 18:31:43 <Disconnect> ttuttle: huh? its the actual exact sheeting.
Nov 24 18:32:01 <caseydavis> I read a forum post that this guys touch screen was less responsive with it
Nov 24 18:32:26 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: got a picture of the G1 with a skin on?
Nov 24 18:32:32 <unix_lappy> or is it completely unnoticable?
Nov 24 18:32:34 <Disconnect> caseydavis: its plastic sheeting, effectively similar to any other screen protector as far as putting it on (somewhat less likely to get bubbles, at least in my experience, but otherwise the same basic process)
Nov 24 18:32:44 <blau> my touch screen works fine with a piece of paper between my finger and the screen
Nov 24 18:32:46 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: in pics its pretty much unnoticable.
Nov 24 18:32:58 <budwaa> Nice update to dgalert blau :d
Nov 24 18:33:08 <Disconnect> might be shinier, or (esp if you overlap sheets or whatever) you might be able to see the edges
Nov 24 18:33:11 <unix_lappy> i'd likely get a screen protector but not a full body skin.
Nov 24 18:33:14 <blau> budwaa: did the auto update notification work?
Nov 24 18:33:20 <budwaa> Yeah perfect
Nov 24 18:33:41 <blau> sweet
Nov 24 18:33:54 <blau> for some reason it didnt work for me for a while
Nov 24 18:33:57 <budwaa> Now can u make it so i can create a shortcut to enable/disable wifi and launch quicklaunch in dgcut
Nov 24 18:33:58 <blau> maybe my server was on the fritz
Nov 24 18:34:00 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: for most devices they sell 2-3 options
Nov 24 18:34:02 <budwaa> dgquickcut
Nov 24 18:34:16 <budwaa> That would be awesome
Nov 24 18:34:33 <Disconnect> (full, front, screen, that sort of options)
Nov 24 18:34:55 <blau> budwaa: if you wanna do the legwork and find out the setting for me ill do it
Nov 24 18:35:10 <blau> :)
Nov 24 18:35:14 <budwaa> ive got the sdk and im d/l eclipse now
Nov 24 18:35:22 <budwaa> ive done some java dev b4
Nov 24 18:35:26 <budwaa> so i wouldnt mind helping :d
Nov 24 18:35:47 <blau> i think i might contribute quickcut stuff to anycut if theyll let me
Nov 24 18:35:52 <blau> so i can get in good with some googlers
Nov 24 18:36:15 <blau> :)
Nov 24 18:36:18 <budwaa> :d
Nov 24 18:36:26 <budwaa> they need to add enable/disable wifi then
Nov 24 18:36:33 <budwaa> cos u can only shortcut the settings page which sucks
Nov 24 18:37:04 <budwaa> I also like the quicklaunch app menu cos u can filter it by letters
Nov 24 18:37:12 <budwaa> which means its quick to find the app u wan
Nov 24 18:38:30 <blau> bud: the philosophy behind anycut is just to show whats possible with android
Nov 24 18:38:43 <blau> not really provide a great function, turns out, people loved it
Nov 24 18:38:44 <blau> lol
Nov 24 18:39:04 <blau> its part of the apps for android thing
Nov 24 18:39:08 <blau> http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/
Nov 24 18:40:16 <budwaa> can u browse the android market on the web?
Nov 24 18:40:29 <blau> nope
Nov 24 18:42:09 <jasta> which sucks, btw :)
Nov 24 18:42:41 <budwaa> Yeah
Nov 24 18:44:27 <blau> i need the content://settings/ uri for wifi settings
Nov 24 18:44:47 <Disconnect> ..for the record, it looks like the marketplace opera mini is a half-ported version of the j2me mini (wouldn't be surprised if it was just adjusted to use ts input and allow for rotation and such)
Nov 24 18:45:04 <Disconnect> so its a little different htan i thought when commenting above, but not much :)
Nov 24 18:45:27 <jasta> Disconnect: did you see my comments on friday regarding replacing a database on android?
Nov 24 18:46:36 <Disconnect> i saw that it worked for you. not sure why its not working for me at this point but i can just preload the data on the device instead of on the mbp. shouldn't affect the users of the app (since they'll have to load it through the UI)
Nov 24 18:46:43 <blau> nevermind
Nov 24 18:47:20 <languish> I really wonder what T-Mobile's budgeted for concessions to G1 customers. They're being given out generously, which is unlike tmo in my experience. From extra batteries to waiving the first months data charges to all kinds of stuff.
Nov 24 18:47:34 <blau> whoa
Nov 24 18:47:39 <blau> i want an extra battery
Nov 24 18:47:47 <languish> It's at the point where I'm telling reps I was just calling to give information, and don't need a concession as a thank you
Nov 24 18:48:13 <languish> blau, a concession is what you get when you have an actual problem.
Nov 24 18:48:16 <KNY> languish, I think they realize(d?) that the G1 launch was pretty boogered
Nov 24 18:48:23 <Disconnect> languish: they aren't usually releasing phones with such problems :)
Nov 24 18:48:23 <languish> no doubt
Nov 24 18:48:32 <languish> Disconnect, yes, they are :|
Nov 24 18:48:34 <blau> lang:battery life sucks
Nov 24 18:48:50 <budwaa> not that bad,,,
Nov 24 18:48:52 <budwaa> wifi kills it
Nov 24 18:48:57 <languish> There's a difference between poor battery life, and a bad battery.
Nov 24 18:49:01 <Disconnect> languish: i've never heard of them releasing a phone with a 3 hour battery life, or a blackberry that couldn't do email
Nov 24 18:49:15 <blau> lang: so what really deserves a concession?
Nov 24 18:49:26 <blau> a bad battery or horrible battery life
Nov 24 18:49:35 <budwaa> Both :d
Nov 24 18:49:40 <languish> if the battery dies within 4 hours without 3g/wifi/bt on..
Nov 24 18:49:44 <blau> i think the g1 is one of the phones that should have come with 2 batteries
Nov 24 18:49:51 <languish> oir doesn't charge up to 100% at all
Nov 24 18:50:08 <languish> but I agree, the G1 was not ready for retail sales.
Nov 24 18:50:22 <budwaa> What kind of battery life are u getting?
Nov 24 18:50:41 <blau> i get about 8 hours
Nov 24 18:50:45 <languish> They should have sold it to developers only until at least january
Nov 24 18:50:46 <blau> with just 3g on
Nov 24 18:50:54 <jasta> my G1's battery life is only marginally worse than my old windows mobile phone, which had a darker smaller screen and less useful so i hardly ever even turned it on and played with it
Nov 24 18:50:59 <blau> some texting, not much web browsing
Nov 24 18:50:59 <budwaa> under what usage?
Nov 24 18:51:11 <blau> maybe like 30 texts
Nov 24 18:51:19 <budwaa> i did 7:15-1700 on 50%
Nov 24 18:51:27 <budwaa> today
Nov 24 18:51:34 <languish> I get better battery life when I charge off the usb cable, than the wall charger
Nov 24 18:51:36 <Disconnect> fyi if you still ahve the 3-4 hour battery life, you can probably raise it with a calibration.
Nov 24 18:51:37 <budwaa> with a bit of wifi usage and some web browsing
Nov 24 18:52:16 <languish> but yeah, after cycling the battery a few times, I get a full days use.
Nov 24 18:52:21 <languish> But tmo's 3g is spotty.
Nov 24 18:52:24 <budwaa> Anyone using the power manager app?
Nov 24 18:52:29 <languish> packet loss and other issues
Nov 24 18:52:41 <languish> it goes up, it goes down
Nov 24 18:52:59 <budwaa> how many mv do you get on full charge?
Nov 24 18:53:09 <budwaa> getting 4062 from usb atm
Nov 24 18:53:12 <budwaa> 100%
Nov 24 18:53:34 <blau> 4167 here
Nov 24 18:53:37 <blau> usb 99%
Nov 24 18:54:40 <languish> heh 'm at 40% from about 8am
Nov 24 18:55:20 <budwaa> what time u @ now?
Nov 24 18:55:32 <languish> 2pm
Nov 24 18:55:33 <budwaa> 7pm here in uk
Nov 24 18:56:02 <languish> I've been told HTC's coming out with a higher capacity battery soon. Though, we may not see it in volume until january
Nov 24 18:56:09 <languish> supposedly going to be sold for $55
Nov 24 18:56:14 <budwaa> blau whats these content//seting things you were talking about
Nov 24 18:56:33 <budwaa> where do i look for em
Nov 24 18:56:41 <andyross> Higher capacity?  I gotta wonder how.  That's a pretty small case they've got the battery in...
Nov 24 18:57:09 <blau> bud: dont worry found it
Nov 24 18:57:13 <budwaa> Who knows, but u can have the same size batt with diff capacuty
Nov 24 18:57:16 <blau> didnt need the content:// thing
Nov 24 18:57:17 <budwaa> where?
Nov 24 18:57:29 <blau> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/provider/Settings.System.html should be good enough
Nov 24 18:57:29 <languish> andyross, there are some new battery technologies that are more efficient.  But also, they may just pack it in to a large back cover.
Nov 24 18:57:32 <jasta> budwaa: generally at the cost of heat and weight
Nov 24 18:57:50 <budwaa> sure..batt doesnt get hot on mine atm. How about u?
Nov 24 18:58:11 <jasta> no, but the battery is not that good so :)
Nov 24 18:58:12 <languish> the batteries that tmo is replacing the old batteries with for customers, are physically larger (just a bit, but still..)
Nov 24 18:58:42 <andyross> My battery area definitely gets hot when charging or under heavy use (oddly, CPU spinning doesn't seem to hurt much, but radio is a killer)
Nov 24 18:58:45 <languish> but they aren't rated for a higher capacity
Nov 24 18:59:03 <languish> andyross, same here.
Nov 24 18:59:18 <andyross> Has anyone called TMO about the battery replacement issue?  I saw something in my scrollback over the weekend.  Are there any deatils?
Nov 24 18:59:22 <andyross> er, details?
Nov 24 18:59:31 <languish> remember, the G1 cpu is underclocked
Nov 24 18:59:54 <budwaa> does i have cpu freq scaling?
Nov 24 18:59:57 <budwaa> it*
Nov 24 18:59:58 <languish> andyross, yeah.. my wife's G1 had a serious battery issue
Nov 24 19:00:08 <languish> they're sending us replacements
Nov 24 19:00:14 <languish> they included me for the hell of it
Nov 24 19:00:31 <languish> who am I to argue with a free 2nd battery
Nov 24 19:00:32 <andyross> You just called the regular support number?  Didn't need to cite a specific program or anything?
Nov 24 19:00:38 <DarkriftX> cuil sucks
Nov 24 19:00:59 <languish> andyross, I call in, say "english, G1, yes"  in that order, to the AVR
Nov 24 19:01:01 <DarkriftX> they crawl the shit out of my site, but its never listed
Nov 24 19:01:07 <DarkriftX> time to ban that bastid
Nov 24 19:01:25 <languish> it sends you to a specific G1 rep in the pda/data group, if they're available
Nov 24 19:01:33 <trigatch5> cuil is pointless and should cease to exist
Nov 24 19:01:38 * andyross might just try the same.  I think my battery is fine, honestly, but given the short lifetime having an extra for travel wouldn't be a bad idea...
Nov 24 19:01:51 <DarkriftX> its been crawling my site 24/7 for the last 8 days
Nov 24 19:02:00 <DarkriftX> i dont have that many damned pages
Nov 24 19:02:10 <DarkriftX> and for me to not show up on their search, screw that
Nov 24 19:02:25 <trigatch5> really?
Nov 24 19:02:38 <trigatch5> sounds like they should rename it "alzheimers"
Nov 24 19:02:39 <languish> andyross, yeah.. I wouldn't want to travel with the G1 without having a way to charge it nearby
Nov 24 19:02:44 <DarkriftX> yeah....
Nov 24 19:02:49 <languish> I mean... the G1.. won't last me 2 days.
Nov 24 19:03:19 <DarkriftX> i dont have a way to measure how many pageviews or anything its hit (my analytics ignores bots) but 8 days x 24 hours is crazy
Nov 24 19:04:41 <trigatch5> you're getting DDOSed by CUIL
Nov 24 19:04:45 <trigatch5> not cuil at all
Nov 24 19:04:59 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 24 19:05:04 * andyross only has 200 hits from cuil this week, almost entirely a crawl of a mailing list archive.  He feels unloved.
Nov 24 19:05:20 <DarkriftX> the bastards have like 80 ip's so its a pain to block them
Nov 24 19:05:21 <trigatch5> well it appears there is only 2 modes then...
Nov 24 19:05:25 <trigatch5> unloved... or raped...
Nov 24 19:05:33 <DarkriftX> and from what ive read, they dont follow robots.txt
Nov 24 19:05:40 <trigatch5> yeah, i've read the same
Nov 24 19:05:58 <DarkriftX> so i gotta make a huge htaccess entry to block them
Nov 24 19:06:11 <andyross> DarkriftX: just match on the user agent.
Nov 24 19:06:26 <DarkriftX> ive read they change their useragent to get around bans
Nov 24 19:06:59 <andyross> If they're changing their user agent, how do you know it's them? :)  I think perhaps you're being too paranoid.
Nov 24 19:08:23 <trigatch5> i dont understand how they can just ignore robots.txt
Nov 24 19:08:29 <trigatch5> isnt that a legal issue?
Nov 24 19:08:38 <andyross> No, just a convention.
Nov 24 19:08:51 <unix_lappy> languish: the same is true for most mobile devices that boast 400mhz+ CPU, GPS, 3G, 3 inch screen, etc.
Nov 24 19:09:07 <wastrel> i am generally happy with battery but i think it's because i'm always in areas with good reception
Nov 24 19:09:11 <unix_lappy> the battery technology just isnt there / affordable.
Nov 24 19:09:21 <DarkriftX> andyross: google cuil user agent change
Nov 24 19:09:41 <DarkriftX> they dont ignore robots.txt, they only read it once a month or some crap like that
Nov 24 19:09:46 <andyross> And FWIW, given the choice between a search engine that indexes all available content and one that honors dumb robots.txt files, I'll use the one with the better index.  The original idea behind robots.txt was to prevent pseudo-DoS situations where sites with limited bandwidth and lots of pages got spammed.  Most people use it as a privacy mechanism, for which it's ill suited.
Nov 24 19:09:47 <unix_lappy> hopefully Wal-mart comes out with their G1 at 150 this friday ;-)
Nov 24 19:09:58 <wastrel> i went up to 103rd st this weekend, in an area with bad service, and the battery went red in record time
Nov 24 19:10:29 <DarkriftX> cuil is a google killer
Nov 24 19:10:41 <languish> unix_lappy, true, but some of the alternative hybrid devices have lasted me a couple of days with my own casual use. The G1 doesn't last 24hrs for me.
Nov 24 19:10:44 <DarkriftX> their plan is to take the internet down so google has no purpose
Nov 24 19:11:04 <c4software> hi everyone.
Nov 24 19:11:27 <c4software> The HTC diamond is a good device too get android ?
Nov 24 19:11:47 <languish> c4software, the G1 is the only android device sold at retail.
Nov 24 19:12:01 <unix_lappy> alternative hybrid devices?
Nov 24 19:12:15 <c4software> i know i know but for an hybrid device
Nov 24 19:12:18 <languish> unix_lappy, iphone, various palm devices..etc
Nov 24 19:12:27 <languish> hybrid = handset+pda
Nov 24 19:12:39 <unix_lappy> languish: that's pretty much what the G1 is.
Nov 24 19:12:43 <languish> yes
Nov 24 19:12:50 <languish> hence I said "other hybrid devices"
Nov 24 19:13:05 <unix_lappy> i havent gotten claims of a charge lasting more than 24 hours with an iPhone.
Nov 24 19:13:16 <languish> other/alternative
Nov 24 19:13:32 <languish> it depends on use. and it has for me
Nov 24 19:14:04 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: yah but out of the box with a quick charge (3-4 hours) an iphone will work for most of its actual maximum. (and feel free to s/iphone/99% of the phones out there/) .. out of hte box with a full 8 hour charge, the g1 will usually work 50-75% of its actual maxmimum.
Nov 24 19:14:11 <Disconnect> er.. maximum
Nov 24 19:14:38 <raidfive> Does the emulator support email? the application Messaging application seems unusable
Nov 24 19:14:53 <languish> I expect the G1 will improve on battery life, as android improves on efficiency and app devs learn to develop their apps more efficiently
Nov 24 19:14:53 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: why is that do you think?
Nov 24 19:15:21 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: probably they didn't use enough devices for the base calibration or the device[s] they used, for whatever reason, don't resemble the majority of the ones shipped
Nov 24 19:15:23 <Damm> languish, it's bad to have expecations... because then you feel bad when things fail.
Nov 24 19:15:32 <languish> currently, it's not as efficient as it could be, and I believe the gdevs have mentioned it's being worked on
Nov 24 19:15:37 <Damm> languish, it's easier to say 'The G1 cannot get much worse then it already is'... and you cannot fail
Nov 24 19:15:47 <budwaa> Prob some of the apps running keep the g1 awake more than it needs to be
Nov 24 19:15:56 <languish> damm, I don't have great expectations.
Nov 24 19:15:56 <budwaa> wonder if u can run tickless kernel timer..
Nov 24 19:16:02 <languish> but I do believe it will improve
Nov 24 19:16:12 <languish> I didn't state by a margin of how much
Nov 24 19:17:09 <unix_lappy> probably why apple felt justified in locking things down to one running app at a time.
Nov 24 19:17:32 <unix_lappy> and why microsoft made a "task manager" available even though they were laughed at
Nov 24 19:17:47 <andyross> Honestly, battery life is low, but not a huge problem for me.  Turn the screen all the way down, turn off the GPS receiver, which is a huge power suck.  I get 12-16 hours between charges easily with light surfing and a call or two during the day.
Nov 24 19:17:48 <DarkriftX> w00t
Nov 24 19:17:56 <DarkriftX> found an htaccess ban generator tool
Nov 24 19:18:01 <DarkriftX> pasted the ips in and poof
Nov 24 19:18:02 <andyross> Not sure why GPS would be so awful, but it certainly seems to be.
Nov 24 19:18:10 <wastrel> battery life is fine, just don't use your phone
Nov 24 19:18:18 <Damm> andyross, more then likely the GPS chip itself
Nov 24 19:18:35 <Damm> cell phone gps units... have been pretty much suck imo
Nov 24 19:18:45 <languish> GPS has always been a power suck, even on dedicated GPS devices
Nov 24 19:18:51 <wastrel> my friend just got a job at tomtom
Nov 24 19:19:00 <andyross> Yeah, but there's no reason to be running the GPS receiver if no clients are listening.  And I have a Garmin that lasts for months on 4 AA NiMH batteries.
Nov 24 19:19:41 <donpdonp> im writing a continuous location tracking app. getting 30 second updates my batter life is about 8 hours. without GPS tracking its about 30 hours.
Nov 24 19:19:44 <Damm> andyross, I thought it shut gps off when 'minimized' the application requesting it?
Nov 24 19:19:49 <Damm> unless the application was lame
Nov 24 19:19:55 <languish> I think what uses my battery a bit, is the email and calendar updates
Nov 24 19:20:18 <languish> and I make quite a few phone calls through out the day
Nov 24 19:20:31 <languish> aside from the data useage and casual game playing
Nov 24 19:21:02 <languish> I also plan to use it for about 2 hours a day as a video player (commuting) in the future
Nov 24 19:21:15 <languish> 45mins each way
Nov 24 19:21:24 <languish> give or take 15mins
Nov 24 19:21:43 <unix_lappy> languish: that's fairly heavy usage.
Nov 24 19:22:09 <languish> heavy usage is an issue of perception
Nov 24 19:22:22 <DarkriftX> haha, twiceler just got raped
Nov 24 19:22:41 <DarkriftX> i wonder if it will still hit the site over and over for another week or 2
Nov 24 19:23:31 * DarkriftX leaves for work
Nov 24 19:23:32 <DarkriftX> later all
Nov 24 19:28:28 <mikechan> languish video playback for 2 hours will burn ~50% of the battery
Nov 24 19:28:29 <mikechan> right tehre
Nov 24 19:28:49 <languish> mikechan, I know
Nov 24 19:28:55 <languish> but now I'll have a second battery
Nov 24 19:30:55 <languish> I'm just spoiled with my old axim and its 2300mah battery, and my zune..etc
Nov 24 19:31:16 <languish> I'm jsut trying to find a balance of performance and battery life, to carry only 1 device
Nov 24 19:31:27 <languish> so I don't have to carry a phone and a media player and a pda
Nov 24 19:31:53 <languish> I'll likely be retired by the time the rigth device for me comes out
Nov 24 19:32:16 <languish> but some of what's out there now is a good start
Nov 24 19:32:33 <languish> even the G1
Nov 24 19:33:31 <unix_lappy> languish: you get a extusb to 3.5 adapter?
Nov 24 19:34:16 <languish> not yet.. keep forgetting to order one
Nov 24 19:36:39 <languish> I need to pick out a nice new set of headphones anyway
Nov 24 19:42:28 <soql> hi all
Nov 24 19:43:02 <vol> hello
Nov 24 19:43:23 <soql> anybody knows something about android (g1) desklets ..
Nov 24 19:43:36 <benley> there's no api for those yet
Nov 24 19:43:45 <soql> uuuu :"(
Nov 24 19:44:58 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 24 19:45:32 <blau> what else besides wifi toggle would be nice to have a shortcut for
Nov 24 19:45:50 <ttuttle> blau: bluetooth and gps.
Nov 24 19:45:57 <steve918> Would most people find it more useful to have a notepad application that 1 ways syncs (backs up) to google docs, or true two-way syncing to evernote?
Nov 24 19:46:16 <KNY> two-way to google docs :)
Nov 24 19:46:20 <ttuttle> steve918: what's evernote?
Nov 24 19:46:37 <steve918> KNY: unfortunately that's not really an option
Nov 24 19:46:42 <soql> and if google maps show some info about speed direction ..
Nov 24 19:47:08 <steve918> Google docs does not allow you to fetch private documents.
Nov 24 19:47:11 <ttuttle> steve918: wait for google to implement docs?
Nov 24 19:48:15 <steve918> ttuttle: I'm afraid they would tell you they already did, just use Webkit
Nov 24 19:48:22 <steve918> which is kind of lame
Nov 24 19:48:31 <ttuttle> steve918: ewww.
Nov 24 19:48:39 <ttuttle> steve918: that's hellishly slow.
Nov 24 19:52:34 <vol> WindowManager   I'm tired mEndcallBehavior=0x2
Nov 24 19:52:42 <vol> Somehow I'm not sure that logcat really meant to write that one.
Nov 24 19:54:09 <jbq> I love the "I'm tired" part.
Nov 24 19:55:00 <wastrel> i'm tired
Nov 24 19:55:59 <blau> lol
Nov 24 19:56:46 <vol> I'm just assuming that someone was up really late coding
Nov 24 19:56:50 <blau> adding quicklaunch toggles for certain settings
Nov 24 19:57:12 <languish> the I'm taired part reminded me of bioshock
Nov 24 19:57:16 <languish> *tired
Nov 24 19:57:22 <blau> woopydoop
Nov 24 19:57:23 <joeo> it prints that when it's going to sleep
Nov 24 19:58:48 <jasta> jbq: do you know who is responsible for the messaging app?
Nov 24 19:59:27 <jasta> i have a suspicion that the one in the source tree is not the one on my handset.  in particular, the one on the g1 is _really_ slow when scrolling the list of conversations.  but there's nothing in the code that would indicate that
Nov 24 19:59:54 <romainguy_> it is the same
Nov 24 20:00:12 <romainguy_> (we're working on that issue)
Nov 24 20:00:23 <vol> I haven't had that experience
Nov 24 20:00:24 <jasta> what is the issue?  i looked at the code and saw nothing fishy in the adapter?
Nov 24 20:00:54 <romainguy_> jasta: use of styled text, all optimizations disabled on ListView, memory allocations, etc
Nov 24 20:01:23 <jasta> all opts disabled?
Nov 24 20:05:02 <blau> jasta: messaging app is butt :(
Nov 24 20:05:31 <blau> i cant believe they didnt notice the performance issue sbefore
Nov 24 20:05:50 <jasta> well the app itself is fine.  it's just that one adapter is so amazingly, unbelievably slow
Nov 24 20:06:16 <Disconnect> or the need for some sort of texteasy-style interface ("i want to send to a bunch of people without whipping out a notepad and jotting down their names first")
Nov 24 20:06:16 <romainguy_> the adapter itself is fine
Nov 24 20:06:21 <jasta> i still cant fathom why looking at the source.  it does a few things that maybe could be faster, but i would think you'd have to really pound the bindView() method in order to get it to go that slow
Nov 24 20:06:32 <romainguy_> I just told you jasta
Nov 24 20:06:44 <romainguy_> it's not what the adapter does
Nov 24 20:06:52 <romainguy_> (well not directly)
Nov 24 20:07:28 <jasta> what did you mean by "all opts disabled"?
Nov 24 20:07:46 <romainguy_> ListView's drawing optimizations are disabled
Nov 24 20:07:56 <jasta> but that is true for all apps, is it not?
Nov 24 20:07:59 <blau> hmm im sleepy
Nov 24 20:08:09 <romainguy_> jasta: er no
Nov 24 20:08:15 <ttuttle> Disconnect: /me is really liking the invisibleSHIELD.
Nov 24 20:08:22 <romainguy_> why would we disable ListView's drawing optimizations for all apps? that doesn't make any sense
Nov 24 20:08:27 <jasta> where are they being disabled?
Nov 24 20:08:35 <jasta> romainguy_: of course not, but why does it make sense to do it for that app either? :)
Nov 24 20:08:38 <Disconnect> ttuttle: cool. :) i like the texture on the ts a lot better
Nov 24 20:09:12 <ttuttle> Disconnect: yeah, it's smooth, but tacky enough that you don't slip *unless you want to *.
Nov 24 20:09:41 <Disconnect> yeppers. and it masks fingerprints/smudges/etc a lot better than the glass.
Nov 24 20:10:03 <ttuttle> Disconnect: and I can't see the existing scratches ;)
Nov 24 20:10:08 <jasta> romainguy_: im looking at the code and i cant see where any listview opt is being disabled.  that's what i meant.
Nov 24 20:10:08 <Disconnect> cool
Nov 24 20:14:53 <kRutOn> jasta: Maybe it's cleverly named like setLinearText
Nov 24 20:15:11 <jasta> what?
Nov 24 20:17:47 <blau> how can I have an "invisible" ativity
Nov 24 20:18:26 <jasta> blau: what does that mean?
Nov 24 20:18:30 <jbq> sounds like an odd concept, since the whole purpose of an activity is to be visible.
Nov 24 20:18:53 <blau> nevermind i think i can use broadcasts with quicklaunch
Nov 24 20:43:28 <mikey|> anyone here in the uk with a g1?
Nov 24 20:44:27 <mikey|> actually...my question could apply to US people. When you get a price plan where the phone isn't free, do you have to pay for the phone in one go or can it be part of your monthly bill?
Nov 24 20:46:17 <vol> mikey|: that really sounds like a question for T-Mobile
Nov 24 20:46:28 <vol> In any event, financing is the devil, so don't go that route : (
Nov 24 20:46:50 <mikey|> I won't and I don't like contracts on phones :/
Nov 24 20:46:57 <mikey|> wish tmob would payg it
Nov 24 20:47:46 <andreaf> hi *
Nov 24 20:48:12 <mikey|> hello
Nov 24 20:48:43 <andreaf> i'm trying to open a call with an android application. I know that I Have to create a new Intent but which action I have to use ? (i'm googling for info)
Nov 24 20:50:12 <andreaf> Intent.ACTION_DIAL (found)
Nov 24 20:51:16 <unix_lappy> mikey|: in the US most people pay upfront or get 3rd party financing.
Nov 24 20:53:40 <eldenz> for anyone that cares, you /receive/ update notifications even if you aren't on a t-mobile network
Nov 24 20:54:59 <mikey|> just spoke to t mob sales, you have to pay upfront, phone on the cheapest price plan is £100, monthly is £20
Nov 24 20:55:20 <mikey|> really tempted
Nov 24 20:58:17 <Disconnect> eldenz: yah the phone polls periodically
Nov 24 20:58:54 <eldenz> i had the impression it's issued by t-mobile
Nov 24 20:59:33 <jasta> it probably just hits a google server.
Nov 24 21:00:09 <Disconnect> it polls over the web, doesn't matter who its asking. (but yes, i think its google. at least, the final dl server is *.google.com)
Nov 24 21:00:35 <ttuttle> So, T-Mobile gets to approve updates, but they're really done through Google's systems.
Nov 24 21:00:43 <ttuttle> (As you can see from the hostname, android.clients.google.com.)
Nov 24 21:01:39 <jasta> i can't wait for a day when carriers just butt out of the whole process.
Nov 24 21:02:26 <Disconnect> jasta: ahahhahaa. who's gonna invest all the design money in handsets? (if htc wanted to do that they would already be selling non-carrier handsets, instead of just the occasional unlocked unit)
Nov 24 21:04:04 <budwaa> We all could :d
Nov 24 21:04:08 <budwaa> ill put in a tenner
Nov 24 21:04:54 <jasta> Disconnect: it will happen some day.  the carriers act as the industry's own arbitrary middle man.
Nov 24 21:05:08 <Disconnect> i'm sure there are a couple out there, but other than moko i can't think of any manuf that puts out non-carrier handsets. (as in, starts and releases a handset with no carrier buy-in, minimum purchases, etc.) nokia likes to pretend they are when they spin up for a new handset (esp the multimedia ones) but in the end they are all beginning to end carrier units.
Nov 24 21:05:23 <jasta> the model will eventually shift toward large retailer stores being the middle men, like they are with most everything else technology related.
Nov 24 21:05:58 <Disconnect> maybe. it'd be nice, too. but remember most people wish away the contract price and call a "free" phone "free"
Nov 24 21:06:00 <jasta> so manufacturers would set up partnerships with best buys, and amazon.com, etc to sell their handsets without attachment to a particular carrier.
Nov 24 21:06:04 <mikey|> does the g1 have a silence button when someone rings so it stops the ringtone but the alert remains on the screen?
Nov 24 21:06:14 <Disconnect> mikey|: no. well.. sorta.
Nov 24 21:06:22 <jasta> and when this becomes a viable option, chipset makers will just start supporting more frequency ranges
Nov 24 21:06:26 <Disconnect> unlock it and pull down the notification bar. otherwise it just keeps going.
Nov 24 21:06:28 <mikey|> thats one feature is miss on my pda
Nov 24 21:06:29 <jasta> so that manufacturers have this option cheaply
Nov 24 21:06:42 <mikey|> you could slience the ringing but not drop the call
Nov 24 21:06:55 * Disconnect misses a lot of features from when he had a real phone. :(
Nov 24 21:07:14 * jasta has been using smart phones for a LONG time :)
Nov 24 21:07:28 <Disconnect> me too. right up till the g1. ;)
Nov 24 21:07:39 <jasta> hmm?
Nov 24 21:07:46 <mikey|> i still <3 my nokia 7610 lol
Nov 24 21:08:00 <mikey|> apart from a dodgy keypad, works pretty much the same as day 1
Nov 24 21:08:04 <jasta> Disconnect: i have not been happy with most smartphone platforms to date.  the G1 is a welcome change.
Nov 24 21:08:33 <jasta> with palm, wm, and blackberry leading the pack, the outlook was bleak.  thank god for apple and google :)
Nov 24 21:09:08 <mikey|> if only the iphone was more open....
Nov 24 21:09:19 <jasta> or better engineered
Nov 24 21:09:29 <Disconnect> desktop sync? nope. print and fax? nope. backup/restore? nope. reasonable multi-recipient sms/mms/email? nope. (3rd party fix, finally) imap email? nope.. compared to most smartphones its a dumbphone with a good web browser stapled on :)
Nov 24 21:09:32 <mikey|> i cant imagine buying it and then being locked into some weird Steve Jobs control fantasy lol
Nov 24 21:09:54 <mikey|> Disconnect: see that pic of it being compared with a 30,000 BC rock?
Nov 24 21:09:58 <mikey|> s/see/seen
Nov 24 21:09:59 <jasta> Disconnect: what do you need desktop sync for?  that was a lame paradigm.
Nov 24 21:10:06 <jasta> print and fax?  again, what?
Nov 24 21:10:37 <rubyonlinux> heh, and most smartphones lack a smart browser .. funny how that worked out
Nov 24 21:10:38 <jasta> backup/restore, well, yeah that would be nice.  maybe google will come out with a cloud-backed solution at some point.
Nov 24 21:10:43 <Disconnect> everything from my old sendo x on up can do printing or (with carrier option enabled) send/receive faxes.
Nov 24 21:10:47 <jasta> and imap e-mail is supported just fine.
Nov 24 21:10:51 <mikey|> http://www.techpavan.com/wp-content/uploads/Apple-iphonevsstone.jpg
Nov 24 21:11:44 <languish> <jasta> print and fax?  again, what? <- they're still necessary. In fact, HTC wanted me to fucking FAX them this week to get warranty support
Nov 24 21:12:03 <Disconnect> desktop sync is handy for a couple of reasons. for one, its where most people have their contacts already. for another, there is no good interface to google's contact system - the web UI is -still- an unmitigated disaster and the phone one - while decent enough with small edits/on the road entries - is not ideal for bulk entry or editing
Nov 24 21:12:22 <languish> I had to convince them to find out what their goddamn email address was and find someone who could check it, and get a manager to approve receiving a scanned jpg instead of a fax
Nov 24 21:12:23 <Disconnect> jasta: imap email is supported fine until you delete a message. or try to handle a spam folder.
Nov 24 21:13:04 <languish> ..and, they didn't know wtf scanning was, or what a "jay-peggle? isn't that a game?" wa...
Nov 24 21:13:07 <Disconnect> or go to move a message from one folder to the other. (and is it imap that forces complete quotes and top-posting or is that the gmail client?)
Nov 24 21:13:07 <languish> *sigh*
Nov 24 21:13:36 <jasta> languish: and im sure you couldnt ahve just said "i dont have a fax machine you dopes." and sent them an e-mail instead.
Nov 24 21:13:49 <languish> jasta I did. Fax was policy.
Nov 24 21:13:59 <languish> and they didn't have email addresses they could check
Nov 24 21:14:00 <jasta> Disconnect: any app that is worth a damn can export your contacts and you can get them into Gmail easily.
Nov 24 21:14:05 <jasta> Disconnect: i did exactly that when i got my phone
Nov 24 21:14:22 <jasta> languish: you're so full of shit :)
Nov 24 21:14:23 <Disconnect> these are all out-of-the-box features on symbian/bb/iphone/wm phones (not sure if fax is on bb, but its on symbian business and wm, istr some palm also)
Nov 24 21:14:36 <Disconnect> actually fax isn't on iphone
Nov 24 21:15:00 <jasta> why are you even bothering to complain about these silly esoteric features?  are you the type of guy who bitche dwhne PCs stop being built with modems and floppy drives?
Nov 24 21:15:04 <languish> My wife's office is a large int'l tech company US corp HQ.  She's been fighting to get everyone in the office to use document scanning for 3 years
Nov 24 21:15:06 <jasta> stopped*
Nov 24 21:15:10 <Disconnect> jasta: so the answer is "dump them in and manage them with that disaster of a web ui?"
Nov 24 21:15:14 <d0nets> hey is there scp yet for android?
Nov 24 21:15:20 <languish> They use faxes, on their cellphones even
Nov 24 21:15:22 <d0nets> like to scp shit from my home pc via ssh
Nov 24 21:15:41 <languish> they forward eachother faxes
Nov 24 21:15:42 <d0nets> or any way to get stuff from my home pc
Nov 24 21:15:55 <jasta> d0nets: use adb push while you are wired to it.  that is one option.
Nov 24 21:16:04 <jasta> or put something on a web server.
Nov 24 21:16:09 <d0nets> no
Nov 24 21:16:12 <d0nets> remotely
Nov 24 21:16:15 <Disconnect> jasta: i used faxes on a regular basis on my 9300i (mostly for work, although it was convenient to fax in takeout/delivery orders when the restaurant only spoke korean :) ..) and seriously, the ability to edit contacts in something ohter than the web-0.5-edition gmail contacts editor is hardly 'esoteric'
Nov 24 21:16:23 <budwaa> connectbot wants to do that d0nets
Nov 24 21:16:25 <Disconnect> or to share contacts between multiple devices
Nov 24 21:16:41 <d0nets> i tried scp in connectbot
Nov 24 21:16:42 <d0nets> it didnt work
Nov 24 21:16:51 <budwaa> yeah not implemented yet afaik
Nov 24 21:17:15 * Disconnect notes that - by that same token - mms support is 'esoteric' because iphone hasn't got it, so you shoudl just use email instead :)
Nov 24 21:17:23 <languish> jasta, the point is.. the business world still requires these functions. Regardless of better solutions being available, and in order to get things done.. these functions are sometimes necessary. Oh, and then there's the IRS... "scan wha? no sir, we require you fax it in."
Nov 24 21:17:39 <jasta> Disconnect: i can honestly say i do not see where you are coming from.  i never have cared about any of these things you see as important.  not on any phone ive had for years.
Nov 24 21:17:47 <eldenz> is there no activity for the Security & location settings? or how is it called? (trying to get a shortcut with AnyCut)
Nov 24 21:18:23 <languish> jasta, you don't have to see where we're coming from, only understand that other have needs in their day to day lives that you may not
Nov 24 21:18:30 <jasta> Disconnect: you should just use e-mail.  MMS has a broken implementation in most phones.
Nov 24 21:18:30 <mikey|> does android, by default, launch a new instance of your app when you go to home screen and then open the app again?
Nov 24 21:18:32 <languish> *others
Nov 24 21:18:54 <budwaa> mikey depends on the app. some yes others no afaik
Nov 24 21:18:59 <jasta> mikey|: define "new instance"?
Nov 24 21:19:25 <mikey|> e.g. my irc app is open, I go the home screen, click the icon again, and it opens a fresh version of my app
Nov 24 21:19:36 <jasta> depending on how you left the app, it may issue a new onCreate.  or it may just issue onStart, onResume, etc.
Nov 24 21:19:57 <mikey|> hmm...I didnt include onStart and resume in my code
Nov 24 21:19:58 <jasta> mikey|: can you please be more specific than "opens a fresh version"?
Nov 24 21:20:24 <languish> I shipped the IRS a 72 page printed document, because they refused to provide an email address to send a pdf to.  They shipped me BACK the document, and told me I had to fax it in.
Nov 24 21:21:07 <jasta> thats funny, because i actually communicated with the IRS via e-mail when they had a poblem with my 2005 tax return.
Nov 24 21:21:19 <mikey|> jasta: say i connect to a server, go the home screen, and then click the icon again. It opens it again with "loaded app version" which is the default message on a fresh load up. Afaik, my current connection to a server isnt killed which must mean the app is still open
Nov 24 21:21:32 <jasta> mikey|: do you mean, onCreate is called?
Nov 24 21:21:37 <mikey|> yeah
Nov 24 21:21:39 <languish> jatsa, yes, I can communicate with them via email, but they reject the attachments
Nov 24 21:21:53 <jasta> mikey|: yes, and that would happen if you left your app with the back button.
Nov 24 21:21:58 <languish> and certain documentation, they refuse to accept via the internet at all
Nov 24 21:22:13 <mikey|> is there anyway to bring my open app to front instead a relaunch?
Nov 24 21:22:43 <jasta> mikey|: you're not thinking about this the right way.  you need to preserve your state somehow, so that when android fires onCreate for you again you issue the same visual state that the user expects
Nov 24 21:22:54 <Disconnect> jasta: here's a stack of business cards. some are new, some are updated. and everyone at FatMicro has a new fax number and web page. please update your contacts accordingly. .. you have 2 choices - 1 at a time (even the ones that only changed fax #) either on the phone or on gmail. with other smartphones, i have n choices because i can make changes with whatever app/interface is appropriate..
Nov 24 21:23:03 <Disconnect> (sorry for teh delay, was afk briefly)
Nov 24 21:23:34 <jasta> mikey|: also, by default, only the activity on the top of the activity stack for your app will be shown.  so your app isnt being restarted, just some particular activity is being remade.
Nov 24 21:23:40 <jasta> and you get to decide how you want it to remake itself.
Nov 24 21:23:55 <mikey|> the state is preserved with orientation change, so I cant see where im going wrong
Nov 24 21:24:48 <jasta> mikey|: have you looked at the activity lifecycle?
Nov 24 21:25:01 <jasta> if you leave an activity with the back key, it will see onStop, and onDestroy.
Nov 24 21:25:12 <jasta> the process, however, will still be alive.  but the activity will be destroyed.
Nov 24 21:25:36 <jasta> if it is necessary to save state then, do so.  or, alternatively, you can keep your state alive in memory by a couple of different approaches
Nov 24 21:25:44 <jasta> one would be to use a shared thread that all activities can use
Nov 24 21:25:47 <mikey|> i see
Nov 24 21:25:47 <jasta> the other would be to use a persistent service
Nov 24 21:26:03 <jasta> so that when your activities are coming up, they first check their state against that to see how they should present themselves
Nov 24 21:26:28 <thesquib> anyone had experience with sounds in android? More specifically, is there any comparable way to pay midi and wav files like you can in j2me
Nov 24 21:26:55 <jasta> mikey|: in your case, i would probably recommend using a persistent service and let the user have an option to say "keep me signed on to irc."
Nov 24 21:27:21 <jasta> then, as they back out of the activities or whatever, the service will always stay connected and ready for the activities to reconnect to it
Nov 24 21:27:47 <jasta> if the user does not check this feature, you can happily shutdown the service as all the activities that were bound to it leave
Nov 24 21:28:02 <budwaa> Any one find that the G1 doesnt mount the sdcard when unplugged from usb?
Nov 24 21:29:01 <jasta> thesquib: yes, both are supported via the MediaPlayer class.
Nov 24 21:29:41 <mikey|> jasta: i think onStop and onRestart would be the best method for me
Nov 24 21:29:51 <jasta> thesquib: however you should keep in mind that Ogg Vorbis offers the best compression and performance (all things considered) of any other format supported by the phone.
Nov 24 21:29:57 <mikey|> the actual connection isnt killed, so I can just call onRestore....
Nov 24 21:30:03 <mikey|> err...not onRestore
Nov 24 21:30:09 <jasta> mikey|: eh, i don't think you quite understand what is happening.
Nov 24 21:30:12 <mikey|> restoreBundle or what it's called
Nov 24 21:31:11 <dd94300> is there any hidden menus in G1?
Nov 24 21:31:25 <Disconnect> ...hidden menus?
Nov 24 21:31:33 <Disconnect> they are all hidden until you push the 'menu' button
Nov 24 21:31:36 <dd94300> means like factory
Nov 24 21:31:37 <vol> double secret google menu buttons
Nov 24 21:31:48 <dd94300> #ABC#
Nov 24 21:32:47 <dd94300> like for support team
Nov 24 21:33:14 <jasta> mikey|: you dont want to just save your state in the bundle and then reload with it that way
Nov 24 21:33:26 <jasta> for instance, what happens if the connection to IRC has died, and you restore a state that doesnt represnet that?
Nov 24 21:33:46 <mikey|> ah, good point
Nov 24 21:34:13 <jasta> this is why i said you either can use a shared thread to learn your state, or you can use a service.
Nov 24 21:34:32 <dd94300> sometimes support team from T-mobile ask you to press sequence of chars. to collect some information...............
Nov 24 21:34:45 <jasta> if you use a service, your connection can persistent beyond android reaping certain processes for memory
Nov 24 21:34:59 <jasta> dd94300: yes, those radio control codes are there.
Nov 24 21:36:13 <tgz> greetings, programs!
Nov 24 21:37:18 <jasta> mikey|: also do note that the behaviour of your app when leaving via back or home is different.
Nov 24 21:37:39 <jasta> though for your purposes, the difference doesnt matter.  you still must restore your state based on the connections status
Nov 24 21:38:46 <jasta> if you'd like to understand more about how this all works, read this:
Nov 24 21:38:49 <jasta> http://code.google.com/android/intro/appmodel.html
Nov 24 21:42:40 <tgz> okay guys
Nov 24 21:42:48 <tgz> the time has come and my phone wants to update to R30
Nov 24 21:43:30 <tgz> do I let it? or do I want to do something else before the hole is inevitably closed
Nov 24 21:44:40 <Disconnect> it'll update eventually anyway. what i did was installed the jf hacked rc30 but thats just me.
Nov 24 21:45:31 <tgz> well, I have the "update later option"
Nov 24 21:45:33 <tgz> and I can keep tapping it
Nov 24 21:45:44 <tgz> information on hacked rc30?
Nov 24 21:46:13 <jasta> tgz: im probably just going to do the update and lose root.  root isnt worth the hassle :)
Nov 24 21:46:22 <jasta> i dont intend to do anything too interesting with mine anyway
Nov 24 21:47:01 <tgz> I'm just trying to think, if I wanted to do something interesting, what WOULD I do anyway?
Nov 24 21:47:17 <KNY> any eta on the next ota update?
Nov 24 21:47:18 <saurik> when I have time I am going to work on a video recorder for the G1, which will likely require root (so as to run native code for performance, and possibly for access to the lower-level camera api)
Nov 24 21:47:43 <RyeBrye> Well... if multitouch support is ever available in the android platform, and a software layer is created in the G1 that would enable it - you will not be able to flash a version that would enable multitouch support on the G1 without root
Nov 24 21:48:15 <saurik> installing VPN drivers to get really transparent tunneling requires root
Nov 24 21:48:39 <saurik> (as would running a dhcp daemon)
Nov 24 21:49:00 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: you mean of the browser?
Nov 24 21:49:13 <tgz> I don't think I really care about multitouch
Nov 24 21:49:26 <Death_Syn> hmm, an openvpn client would be nice
Nov 24 21:49:32 <tgz> it would be nice to tunnel, that's true
Nov 24 21:49:34 <RyeBrye> unix_lappy - of anything... The G1 will likely never have official multitouch support - but if android gets it for another phone it would not be too hard to add in support for the G1 in software
Nov 24 21:49:59 <eldenz> anyone has the udev rules for gentoo?
Nov 24 21:50:14 <vol> tgz: you can use root to "steal" apps.
Nov 24 21:50:16 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: why do you think the G1 will never get multitouch support?
Nov 24 21:50:33 <vol> which is to say, take the apk and move them off device onto the internet, from which you can download them to any device
Nov 24 21:50:44 <RyeBrye> unix_lappy - because morrildl earlier pointed out the G1 is spec'ed as a single touch device - so they can't enable it on a device that is only spec'ed to have a single touch screen
Nov 24 21:51:16 <tgz> vol: where are the apps anyway, though
Nov 24 21:51:25 <RyeBrye> unix_lappy - even if it is trivial to enable it on the G1, that one thing alone kind of ties their hands in implementing it officially - so it's very doubtful that an OTA update will ever enable multitouch
Nov 24 21:51:38 <vol> somewhere in /data
Nov 24 21:52:06 <vol> /data/app looks like
Nov 24 21:52:17 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: i'm in total agreement, even IF they enabled multitouch at the driver level they'd have to provide a framework for using it.
Nov 24 21:52:22 <KNY> stupid ctrl+w
Nov 24 21:52:28 <Disconnect> jasta: lol. speaking of floppies, a totally unrelated post just came across a different channel: http://twitpic.com/ntwx
Nov 24 21:52:33 <unix_lappy> and there hasnt really been a plan layed out for cross device support.
Nov 24 21:52:46 <Disconnect> tgz: 'update later' is all well and good but it eventually udpates anyway
Nov 24 21:52:56 <KNY> RyeBrye, didn't we go over this a while ago? the screen lumps the two widths together
Nov 24 21:53:09 <RyeBrye> KNY - that's really not important for the gesture support
Nov 24 21:53:36 <RyeBrye> KNY - for gesture support, it doesn't really matter how fat the fingers are on the screen, just that the fingers are moving
Nov 24 21:53:52 <Disconnect> tgz: i'm gonna sit down (prolly friday) and see about proper bluetooth DUN tethering instead of all the iptables and/or socks proxy hacks that are out there now.. but it requires root.
Nov 24 21:54:26 <tgz> hmm, I get permission denied on my g1 when trying to ls in /data/app
Nov 24 21:54:38 <vol> yeah
Nov 24 21:54:43 <vol> that's because you're not root
Nov 24 21:54:53 <vol> or you don't have read permissions
Nov 24 21:55:02 <vol> cd ..; ls -l ./app
Nov 24 21:55:06 <unix_lappy> I wonder, even if i broke my G1 because of some root permission involved incompetence, how would T-Mobile support know / would they even check ;-P
Nov 24 21:55:16 <unix_lappy> and how easy would it be to restore to factory?
Nov 24 21:55:33 <RyeBrye> unix_lappy - you can just reflash the modified recovery image and that will pretty much clean it
Nov 24 21:55:47 <RyeBrye> unix_lappy - or if that didn't work, doing that and a factory data wipe would get rid of all data and effectively restore it to a hacked system
Nov 24 21:55:52 <tgz> restoring to factory is booting while holding home and then like alt-L alt-W I think
Nov 24 21:57:00 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: i likely still wont root my Android Device whichever one it happens to be.
Nov 24 21:58:35 <Poohba1> is there a way to see all the possible numbers that you may be typing?   if i type 215 i'd like to see a list of possible numbers i could be calling based on past numbers i've called and/or contacts
Nov 24 21:59:10 <Poohba1> I understand this isn't windows mobile but there are a lot of simple features that I thought were common in phones these days that just aren't here in this G1
Nov 24 21:59:16 <Disconnect> Poohba1: spelldial
Nov 24 21:59:44 <Disconnect> jasta: but if it doesn't have irda and a 3.5" floppy how ever will i port http://twitpic.com/ntzj? (also not me)
Nov 24 22:00:52 <Poohba1> is that a program bc i don't see it on the market place
Nov 24 22:01:31 <tgz> I saw spelldial on my marketplace, I thought
Nov 24 22:02:01 <jasta> Poohba1: well, if you just start typing letters it searches contacts
Nov 24 22:02:05 <jasta> just like windows mobile did
Nov 24 22:02:52 <Poohba1> i want to see all of the 215 numbers
Nov 24 22:04:51 <Poohba1> so when i type 215 i'd like to see all the contacts that have 215 in their numbers or any number that i've dialed or called me
Nov 24 22:06:46 <ttuttle> Disconnect: there are bubbles in my invisibleshield. :(
Nov 24 22:07:47 <tgz> Disconnect: http://www.intomobile.com/2008/11/10/force-android-rc-30-update-on-your-t-mobile-g1-and-keep-root-access.html these instructions?
Nov 24 22:08:00 <tgz> ttuttle: can't you just remove and re-apply
Nov 24 22:08:12 <tgz> or are there actual bumps in the material
Nov 24 22:08:36 <ttuttle> tgz: i can remove it but it's been a while since I applied it.
Nov 24 22:08:40 <dholiday1> is this phone for real?  http://www.zzzphone.com
Nov 24 22:09:28 <ttuttle> ouch.  my phone just suffered a reboot due to unintended vertical acceleration.
Nov 24 22:09:48 <dholiday1> ttuttle: whoops
Nov 24 22:09:53 <ttuttle> dholiday1: yeah.  it's fine though.
Nov 24 22:10:38 <jbq> usually, the acceleration doesn't hurt as much as the ensuing deceleration ;-)
Nov 24 22:11:10 <ttuttle> jbq: yeah.  it was the deceleration, and resulting separation of the battery from its enclosing receptacle that caused the reboot.
Nov 24 22:13:01 <thesquib> If I try and play a .wav file with the mediaplayer, I get a "Prepare failed: status=0xFFFFFFFC"
Nov 24 22:13:21 <Poohba1> i see spellit and aspell on my market
Nov 24 22:13:35 <wastrel> iv'e dropped mine a few times with no discernable ill effects
Nov 24 22:13:43 <wastrel> onto our hardwood floors
Nov 24 22:18:09 <blau> grr having problems with transparent/translucent activities
Nov 24 22:18:47 <blau> any ideas?
Nov 24 22:18:56 <blau> i have it working in one app, but cant figure out what the deal is elsewhere
Nov 24 22:22:05 <lresende> hey, is there documentation on the android source code project structure and where build outputs such the android eclipse plugins output would be...
Nov 24 22:26:24 <raidfive> How do I specify the location of menu items for options menus? I'm trying to have three buttons on the top row and a four button filling the entire bottom row
Nov 24 22:26:42 <KNY> raidfive, the OS does that automatically
Nov 24 22:26:47 <KNY> and you can't have more than 6, anyway
Nov 24 22:26:57 <KNY> it will automatically add the "More" as the sixth one
Nov 24 22:27:10 <raidfive> well I don't want this four button "grouped" with the other three
Nov 24 22:27:17 <raidfive> fourth*
Nov 24 22:27:43 <raidfive> seems like I should be able to bumb it down to its own row
Nov 24 22:27:43 <KNY> you don't have control over the positioning, as far as I know
Nov 24 22:28:03 <unix_lappy> hmm, phone fusion looks cool
Nov 24 22:28:10 <raidfive> I noticed a couple places in the Android apps where they have two on top, and three below
Nov 24 22:28:38 <raidfive> is that how the OS does it automatically with 5 items?
Nov 24 22:29:08 <KNY> raidfive, I believe so, yes
Nov 24 22:30:37 <blau> grrr at transparency
Nov 24 22:31:26 <blau> i always have trouble with this
Nov 24 22:33:26 <blau> i give up for tonight
Nov 24 22:38:45 <eldenz> in recovery mode, is 'E:Can't open /cache/recovery/command' something to worry about?
Nov 24 22:40:38 <eldenz> figured it out
Nov 24 22:40:45 <eldenz> (seems to be normal)
Nov 24 22:41:14 <jbq> Yeah, probably should be logged at a lower severity
Nov 24 22:42:29 <unix_infidel> can you browse files on the sdcard?
Nov 24 22:42:35 <unix_infidel> (with the default image)
Nov 24 22:42:56 <eldenz> there is a filebrowser app: Blender
Nov 24 22:43:17 <jbq> yes, the entire card is accessible to all (except the system UID).
Nov 24 22:43:29 <eldenz> (or with Terminal Emulation app)
Nov 24 22:46:38 <jasta> lol, comcast owns so much i cant even believe it
Nov 24 22:46:57 <jasta> they just upgraded our business account for free and now we are getting:
Nov 24 22:47:18 <budwaa> Blau can you make dgalert vibrate when the phone is on silent?
Nov 24 22:48:10 <dd94300> is there a hidden menu with special information (like reset log, error codes etc)??
Nov 24 22:48:14 <jasta> Last Result:
Nov 24 22:48:15 <jasta> Download Speed: 23074 kbps (2884.3 KB/sec transfer rate)
Nov 24 22:48:15 <jasta> Upload Speed: 5708 kbps (713.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
Nov 24 22:48:44 <jasta> all that for $100/mo :)
Nov 24 22:48:59 <jasta> and thats a 17ms ping to Speakeasy in Seattle
Nov 24 22:49:30 <unix_infidel> jasta: meh, the might own at commercial broadband, not so much on the residential side (so i hear)
Nov 24 22:50:03 <jasta> with this and verizon, i have a hard time understanding how the telcos still find suckers to buy T-1's
Nov 24 22:50:28 <jasta> yes sir, i'll take a fraction of the bandwidth for 5 times more money.  that sounds like a great deal.
Nov 24 22:50:57 <unix_infidel> higher availability i'm assuming.
Nov 24 22:51:04 <jasta> at my work we bring in a consumer grade DSL circuit for backup and business grade cable for the main connection
Nov 24 22:51:09 <jasta> with auto-failover to qwest DSL
Nov 24 22:51:19 <jasta> this achieves greater availability than even a T1 would provide
Nov 24 22:51:30 <jasta> and even with two circuits its still a fraction of the cost
Nov 24 22:52:32 <jasta> unix_infidel: i dont have comcast at home just because of my stupid roommate wanting a qwest phone line.  but i use them for business in our seattle, portland, and boise offices
Nov 24 22:52:37 <unix_lappy> meh, obviously there's no easy way to quantify that, and obviously i'm playing devil's advocate.
Nov 24 22:52:59 <jasta> and they are incredible.  in 2 years we've only had 2 outages, both of which lasted only 3 hours.  with a DSL backup, that passed over almost without noticing
Nov 24 22:53:05 <romainguy_> jasta: in France you can get 28 Mbit/s DSL lines for 30 euros/month (with unlimited phone - even international - and 150 digital TV stations)
Nov 24 22:53:34 <jasta> romainguy_: yes, well, i hear a lot of europe is that way.  it doesn't surprise me either, considering the cities are more dense and the wiring is all newer.
Nov 24 22:53:48 <budwaa> Not in the uk :S
Nov 24 22:53:50 <romainguy_> jasta: and in some cities you have 100 Mbit/s download and 50 Mbit/s upload via fiber optic for the same price
Nov 24 22:54:02 <romainguy_> and yes, it definitely helps to have denser population and smaller countries :)
Nov 24 22:54:07 <jasta> but the US is coming along nicely.  i talked to a comcast rep the other day who said they are looking at providing microwave connections to business customers at over 100mbps soon.
Nov 24 22:54:18 <vol> that's awful sweet of them
Nov 24 22:54:20 <unix_lappy> romainguy_: that is, unless you are fighting off the plague.
Nov 24 22:54:23 <vol> I'm sure it will only be like $1000/mo
Nov 24 22:54:35 <KNY> clear
Nov 24 22:54:36 <vol> It's comcastic! :D
Nov 24 22:54:42 <KNY> whoops, been using too much bash :)
Nov 24 22:54:49 <romainguy_> unix_lappy: doesn't happen very often anymore though
Nov 24 22:54:59 <jasta> romainguy_: still, the problem is still very real in the states, and i can get excited by progress :)
Nov 24 22:55:00 <unix_lappy> ;-)
Nov 24 22:55:04 <jasta> don't take that away from me :)
Nov 24 22:55:12 <andyross> Not enough bash, or else you'd have tried a ^L
Nov 24 22:55:19 <romainguy_> jasta: I'm also excited
Nov 24 22:55:35 <jasta> i'm most encouraged by huge boosts to upstream as well.  the internet has become VERY lob-sided.
Nov 24 22:55:39 <romainguy_> but I'm still shocked when I look at the prices and bandwidth of DSL offers in the bay area :))
Nov 24 22:55:47 <romainguy_> at least I managed to get a DSL line with no phone land line
Nov 24 22:55:57 <KNY> andyross, true enough. I get in trouble on xchat all the time because ctrl+w closes the tab instead of deleting the word.
Nov 24 23:01:33 <RyeBrye> Wow. I love the android market :)
Nov 24 23:02:08 <RyeBrye> There are 2 apps on there now that are only relevant to hacked phones :) (superuser and shell)
Nov 24 23:02:34 <RyeBrye> plus... Opera Mini
Nov 24 23:02:36 <vol> fuckers.
Nov 24 23:02:38 <vol> Oooh opear!
Nov 24 23:02:46 <mikey|> jasta: you still around?
Nov 24 23:03:01 * vol <3 Opear
Nov 24 23:03:07 <RyeBrye> The cool thing is that you know darn well that stuff would never grace the Apple Store
Nov 24 23:03:19 <vol> haha
Nov 24 23:03:26 <vol> I dunno, they let "I'm Rich" through
Nov 24 23:03:35 <RyeBrye> yeah, but they pulled it
Nov 24 23:03:50 <vol> eventually.
Nov 24 23:04:06 * RyeBrye is going to write a GPL "I'm Rich" app and sell it on the market for $10k ;)
Nov 24 23:04:53 <vol> I don't think that would fly
Nov 24 23:05:02 <vol> I'm also rather curious if market has some sort of check in place for that
Nov 24 23:05:15 <RyeBrye> for what?
Nov 24 23:05:33 <vol> if(price > 9999) { Toast.makeToast(this, "You are an idiot!", Toast.DURATION_LONG).show(); }
Nov 24 23:05:34 <RyeBrye> I think the market will let anyone return any app within 7 days or something
Nov 24 23:06:25 <RyeBrye> opera mini isn't very smooth on the G1, unfortunately :( but it's cool that they allow it to exist
Nov 24 23:06:33 <lresende> is there an specific irc channel for core android development ?
Nov 24 23:07:04 <vol> #android-dev is a bit more focused
Nov 24 23:07:18 <vol> opera mini 340k!
Nov 24 23:07:20 * vol swoons
Nov 24 23:07:36 <lresende> vol: thanks
Nov 24 23:07:37 <ttuttle> vol: shhh!  don't tell them about #-dev!
Nov 24 23:07:40 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: you run out of room yet on your G1 with apps ;-P
Nov 24 23:08:22 <mikey|> i have a class which extends Service, but eclipse keeps complaining about the @override before onCreate()? any ideas why?
Nov 24 23:09:01 <vol> Huh, funny.
Nov 24 23:09:17 <vol> One of my fellow devs just told me that eclipse was complaining about @override on something
Nov 24 23:09:27 <vol> OnMediaComplete or something
Nov 24 23:09:41 <jt436> mikey|:  do you have a capital O for @Override, lower case will cause pain for eclipse
Nov 24 23:10:00 <vol> OnCompletion when implementing OnCompletionListener
Nov 24 23:10:40 <mikey|> yes jasta
Nov 24 23:10:59 <mikey|> I've checked the api demos for my error, copy and pasted the method declaration and it still complains
Nov 24 23:11:52 <mikey|> i'll try again with a new file
Nov 24 23:12:04 <jt436> mikey|: have you tried removing the annotation
Nov 24 23:12:18 <budwaa> mikey|: I had a problem with the android demo code, specifically with @Override
Nov 24 23:12:21 <jasta> the @Override thing is probably to do with a behavioural change between java 1.5 and 1.6
Nov 24 23:12:23 <budwaa> this was with notepad demo
Nov 24 23:12:33 <budwaa> yeah that was part of the error
Nov 24 23:12:39 <Poohba1> when i get a page from someone that is in my contacts their number shows up but not their name.  why is that?  is there a setting to fix that?
Nov 24 23:12:42 <jasta> in java 1.5, it will trigger a compiler error to use @Override on an implemented interface method
Nov 24 23:12:43 <budwaa> is that the java asdk version?
Nov 24 23:12:45 <jasta> in java 1.6, it is not.
Nov 24 23:12:55 <jasta> it will not*
Nov 24 23:13:24 <budwaa> i installed java sdk 6u10
Nov 24 23:13:25 <vol> Orly?
Nov 24 23:13:27 <vol> that might be it then
Nov 24 23:13:30 <jasta> romainguy_: damn, i just did a point-to-point test between two of my offices and was able to sustain the same upstream speeds of around 5.6mbps :)
Nov 24 23:13:32 <mikey|> whats the difference between a local and remote service?
Nov 24 23:13:42 <romainguy_> jasta: cool
Nov 24 23:13:44 <jasta> mikey|: local ones run in the same process as your app, remote ones don't.
Nov 24 23:13:58 <jasta> mikey|: the advantage is that android can kill the two processes separately
Nov 24 23:14:00 <mikey|> sounds like i need a remote one..
Nov 24 23:14:04 <jasta> mikey|: unlikely
Nov 24 23:14:18 <mikey|> for keeping a connection to the irc server?
Nov 24 23:14:33 <jasta> you would only want to use a remote service if you truly intend for your service to live significantly longer than the rest of your app (your activities, content provider, etc)
Nov 24 23:14:43 <jasta> otherwise, you will process overhead for no good reason
Nov 24 23:14:48 <jasta> will incur*
Nov 24 23:14:52 <mikey|> ah, i see
Nov 24 23:15:07 <jasta> mikey|: android still isnt likely to kill your service once its running, as its priority will be higher than other apps.
Nov 24 23:15:20 <jasta> the reason you would want a remote service is if you intend to allow the service to live independent of everything else.
Nov 24 23:15:56 <jasta> examples of this would be like if you had a persistent, infinitely living connection to a server like with push e-mail.  you'd want the process housing that to be as slim and light as possible, not muddled up by UI
Nov 24 23:16:11 <jasta> or for instance if you had parts of your app which are likely to be invoked by other apps independent of your UI.
Nov 24 23:16:43 <jasta> unless you intend to provide an option to let your IRC connection live forever (which will drain battery a **LOT**), you should not use a remote service.
Nov 24 23:17:43 <mikey|> kk
Nov 24 23:18:25 <jasta> but, it is still important that you cleanup your service when youre done with it
Nov 24 23:18:40 <jasta> otherwise your process will float around for much longer than the user would like
Nov 24 23:19:12 <jasta> i recommend relying on the carrier network to shut down your connection for you.  when it does so, if there are no activities bound to your service, call stopSelf
Nov 24 23:19:28 <jasta> if there are activities bound, then reconnect, expecting that the user is looking at the app
Nov 24 23:19:59 <mikechan> what do you mean by carrier network to shut down your connection?
Nov 24 23:20:01 <mikey|> jasta: say I start my service and the user navigates to the home screen, will I still be able post things to my GUI, eg, via a handler?
Nov 24 23:20:05 <mikechan> as in tmobiel to kill your TCP connection?
Nov 24 23:20:06 <jasta> but do realize that this behaviour can only work if you bind to your service during onStart and not onCreate.  stupid android :)
Nov 24 23:20:19 <jasta> mikey|: T-Mobile will perform an orderly shutdown after several minutes of inactivity.
Nov 24 23:20:34 <mikechan> not several minutes
Nov 24 23:20:36 <mikechan> 28 minutes
Nov 24 23:20:38 <jasta> now that i think about it though, IRC is chatty, so you'd better set your own timeout as well
Nov 24 23:20:44 <mikey|> well, Im hoping that it'll be used over wifi and not 3g or something
Nov 24 23:20:51 <jasta> mikechan: where did you get this data?
Nov 24 23:21:00 <mikechan> I'm that good
Nov 24 23:21:05 <jasta> mikey|: why?  3G is plenty fast for IRC.  EDGE is plenty fast.
Nov 24 23:21:14 <jasta> mikechan: well, i believe you are wrong.  so, where did you get your data?
Nov 24 23:21:42 * mikey| pokes jasta with his previous question :)
Nov 24 23:21:53 <snolahc> Hi all, are you planning to develop an IRC client for android ?
Nov 24 23:22:05 <jasta> mikechan: i have done extensive testing with this.  i implemented IMAP IDLE in the E-mail app, so obviously this is relevant information to me :)
Nov 24 23:22:15 <jasta> mikey|: what is it?
Nov 24 23:22:21 <mikey|> <mikey|> jasta: say I start my service and the user navigates to the home screen, will I still be able post things to my GUI, eg, via a handler?
Nov 24 23:22:34 <mikey|> reason i ask is cos the gui will hidden
Nov 24 23:22:44 <jasta> mikey|: you definitely do not want to do that.  why would you want to waste the cpu/battery when the user doesnt care?
Nov 24 23:22:55 <mikey|> hmm, so what would you suggest?
Nov 24 23:23:23 <jasta> i would store the messages in a short backlog buffer, and a larger one on disc perhaps.
Nov 24 23:23:25 <mikechan> jasta: what timeout values are you looking @ exactly
Nov 24 23:23:29 <jasta> disk*
Nov 24 23:23:39 <mikechan> how long you can idle a tcp socket
Nov 24 23:23:46 <mikechan> before being killed?
Nov 24 23:23:49 <mikey|> snolahc: mine was making good progress until jasta pointed out a fundamental flaw in my design :(
Nov 24 23:24:02 <jasta> mikechan: when no TCP transmissions are happening in either direction, both peers get a RST packet from the carrier about 10 minutes in
Nov 24 23:24:29 <snolahc> mikey|, ^^
Nov 24 23:24:30 <jasta> i think it was actually like 12 or 13 exactly in my tests.  but i can't remember.  it was nowhere near 28.
Nov 24 23:25:03 <vol> Argh
Nov 24 23:25:16 * vol curses JNI and multithreading
Nov 24 23:25:18 <jasta> mikey|: surprise, surprise, software development is harder when you have little memory and a slow CPU :)
Nov 24 23:25:35 <vol> If I perform system.load in one thread, would I have to perform it in another to use it in that other thread?
Nov 24 23:25:59 <snolahc> Please all, is anyone able to code apps without java ????? i found a topic on the google group android developper about a HelloWorld in C, compiled with -static... Is anyone using this method to develop on Android ??
Nov 24 23:26:10 <vol> snolahc: it is "Not Supported"
Nov 24 23:26:11 <jasta> mikechan: yes, so that would be an idling TCP socket.
Nov 24 23:26:16 <vol> you will have to create an android layer no matter what
Nov 24 23:26:26 <vol> unless you want to run your app exclusively from the console
Nov 24 23:26:34 <vol> (unless I'm wrong)
Nov 24 23:27:04 <snolahc> vol, i'm not talking about the emulator, but abt the G1
Nov 24 23:27:45 <vol> snolahc: same difference?
Nov 24 23:28:14 <vol> the main difference between the G1 and the emulator seems to be that you can get root easily with the emulator...
Nov 24 23:29:46 <grey-> pre-rc30 it's pretty easy to get root on the g1.
Nov 24 23:29:58 <vol> ...
Nov 24 23:30:17 <vol> ok, let me rephrase. You're explicitly given root on the emulator, while it takes a bit of work to do it on the phone.
Nov 24 23:30:17 <grey-> if you know of a way to get root post-rc30 on the g1, I'm sure people would be very excited. ;)
Nov 24 23:30:19 <snolahc> to setup a SSH deamon, you need root access (and i have a RC30 firmware, so rooting is impossible...)
Nov 24 23:30:24 <grey-> also, what technique are you using on the emu?
Nov 24 23:30:38 <vol> what technique to what
Nov 24 23:31:01 <grey-> how are you getting root on the emulator?
Nov 24 23:31:06 <vol> ... adb shell?
Nov 24 23:31:18 <jbq> it should be possible to run an sshd without root, as long as you set it on a port >1023 (and as long as the UID launching it has internet permission)
Nov 24 23:32:05 <mikey|> nn
Nov 24 23:32:35 <grey-> ah, yeah.
Nov 24 23:32:50 <grey-> it's very annoying that there's no local root on the g1 by default.
Nov 24 23:33:00 <grey-> if done properly, local root is not a security concern.
Nov 24 23:33:19 <grey-> and if your security is modeled off people not getting local root, then your model is flawed.
Nov 24 23:33:43 <grey-> it's sadly not the only annoyance of the g1.
Nov 24 23:33:49 <grey-> but perhaps the most glaring for development.
Nov 24 23:35:17 <grey-> the fact that the SDK and the g1 are running different versions makes useful parallel development suboptimal.
Nov 24 23:35:35 <grey-> and it would be swell to be able to make changes to a local copy of the android codebase and load it on the g1.
Nov 24 23:35:41 <grey-> but also, not possible. ;-/
Nov 24 23:37:33 <romainguy_> grey-: apart from "missing" apps, the SDK is running what the G1 runs
Nov 24 23:37:55 <grey-> romainguy_: so like when I press menu on the man screen and it says unsupported action.  That's a 'missing' app? ;P
Nov 24 23:38:00 <grey-> s/man/main
Nov 24 23:38:11 <romainguy_> when you press settings you mean
Nov 24 23:38:19 <grey-> right, menu->settings.
Nov 24 23:38:33 <romainguy_> yep that's a missing app
Nov 24 23:38:36 <grey-> haha
Nov 24 23:38:42 <grey-> ok. ;)
Nov 24 23:39:01 <romainguy_> I don't know why it wasn't included but I'm sure there's a good reason
Nov 24 23:39:17 <grey-> yeah... I wish I could hear some of these good reasons.
Nov 24 23:39:22 <romainguy_> ask
Nov 24 23:39:35 <grey-> I can kinda not fault them for the bluetooth stuff [since they claim a better implementation will be released in the future]
Nov 24 23:39:48 <grey-> still it would've been nice to at least have better headset functionality at release [e.g. a2dp]
Nov 24 23:39:49 <romainguy_> yeah we're working on it
Nov 24 23:39:54 <romainguy_> we know
Nov 24 23:40:00 <romainguy_> we didn't have time to do everything
Nov 24 23:40:06 <grey-> and I can understand displaying unicode but not having an IME [roadmap sez q1 2009]
Nov 24 23:40:08 <romainguy_> and trust me, we worked very hard
Nov 24 23:40:13 <grey-> *nod* I believe it.
Nov 24 23:40:17 <grey-> I'm very pleased.
Nov 24 23:40:23 <grey-> but the err...
Nov 24 23:40:35 <grey-> I am kinda confused why there are aspects which still feel very closed.
Nov 24 23:40:43 <romainguy_> what feels closed?
Nov 24 23:41:00 <grey-> I think many people had more freedom flashing android on their older htc devices and dual booting than they do with the g1.
Nov 24 23:41:13 <romainguy_> g1 != android
Nov 24 23:41:37 <grey-> understood, android is a platform, and the g1 is just a device it runs on.
Nov 24 23:41:55 <grey-> and I'm more excited about android than the g1, for sure.
Nov 24 23:41:58 <romainguy_> then don't blame the platform :))
Nov 24 23:42:10 <grey-> how should I put it then...
Nov 24 23:42:13 <romainguy_> (ah well you did not, sorry :)
Nov 24 23:42:23 <andyross> Meh.  Just rephrase to "This Android phone feels very closed" and carry on with the flame war.
Nov 24 23:42:28 <jbq> romainguy_: feeling trigger-happy in that area?
Nov 24 23:42:31 <grey-> heh...
Nov 24 23:42:31 <budwaa> Is lack of root access on the G1 a feature of the G1 or will it be common to all android phones?
Nov 24 23:42:41 <romainguy_> jbq: it's the frustration of the broken build ;-)))
Nov 24 23:42:43 <grey-> I am certainly looking forward to future devices running android out of the box.
Nov 24 23:42:51 <grey-> in the past I've really been pleased with samsung hardware for example.
Nov 24 23:42:51 <Gamma-X> anyone having trouble getting a text notification...
Nov 24 23:42:52 <jbq> romainguy_: I just fixed it.
Nov 24 23:42:57 <romainguy_> I saw that ^^
Nov 24 23:43:18 <grey-> (e.g. the samsung i730 I had four years ago was arguably compared to the g1, but well four years ago and running a shitty platform)
Nov 24 23:43:19 <romainguy_> jbq: now I just need to convince p4 to let me do a p4 reopen
Nov 24 23:43:24 <grey-> errr comparable.
Nov 24 23:44:58 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 24 23:45:07 <andyross> Not sure I'd consider a 240x320 display "comparable" ...
Nov 24 23:45:07 <jbq> grey-: it'll be much better for the android community when android can run from source on hardware that's commonly available to people who want to play with the guts of the platform, no doubt about that.
Nov 24 23:46:03 <budwaa> How much of the G1's actuall system is Android? Is it the linux OS and this davik VM or is it just the VM side of things?
Nov 24 23:46:18 <grey-> *nod*
Nov 24 23:46:33 <jasta> budwaa: the vast majority of code running on the G1 is in the Android source tree.
Nov 24 23:46:39 <andyross> budwaa: It's the whole stack, with a few binary blobs thrown in for hardware without free drivers.
Nov 24 23:46:45 <grey-> jbq: no disagreements there.  And I'm hopeful that in the near future we'll see more. (:
Nov 24 23:46:54 <jasta> the rest is merely proprietary bits, the bootloader, and some of the radio stuff
Nov 24 23:46:59 <grey-> most of my gripes with the android platform thus far from a user perspective are pretty minor.
Nov 24 23:47:13 <grey-> like... some quibbles with sms.
Nov 24 23:47:48 <andyross> Jasta: essentially all of the radio stuff.  And the media/codec DSP code, and the OpenGL driver.  There's a pretty significant chunk of non-free code on the box.
Nov 24 23:47:48 <grey-> and while there's job control, it's not user available by default, only if you have a misbehaving app [which sometimes isn't really: see minor quibbles with sms ;]
Nov 24 23:48:00 <budwaa> what do you mean by stack?
Nov 24 23:48:25 <Gamma-X> yay flash is coming to android!
Nov 24 23:48:28 <andyross> "software stack".  applications on top of VM on top of libraries on top of drivers on top of the kernel, etc...
Nov 24 23:48:36 <grey-> Gamma-X: *nod* that is encouraging.
Nov 24 23:49:18 <budwaa> So above the Vm is all android?
Nov 24 23:49:31 <spikebike> I wish you could long click on the home button then long click on an app to kill it
Nov 24 23:49:35 <Gamma-X> grey-, any ideas on when its supposed to come out.
Nov 24 23:49:37 <spikebike> seems silly to have to reboot
Nov 24 23:50:03 <grey-> Gamma-X: no idea; I'm sure I know as much as you - that adobe demo'd it last week.
Nov 24 23:50:15 <Gamma-X> yup
Nov 24 23:50:35 <grey-> I could ask some friends @ adobe.
Nov 24 23:50:43 <grey-> but chances are they'll know as much about a release date as you or me.
Nov 24 23:50:51 <Gamma-X> if u got em go ahead! lol
Nov 24 23:51:09 <grey-> heh, well they really don't work in that division.
Nov 24 23:51:16 <grey-> one is a security guy who does internal audits of their code.
Nov 24 23:51:24 <grey-> and the other is err... I don't even know how to describe what he does.
Nov 24 23:51:53 <grey-> he designs languages that adobe later uses to take advantage of multi-core/gpu hardware somewhat transparently.
Nov 24 23:52:26 <grey-> and is currently writing tests in these languages for them to troubleshoot any implementation problems with 'em.
Nov 24 23:52:30 <grey-> like err...
Nov 24 23:53:04 <grey-> if you saw that news story about taking faces... and then making them more 'attractive' based off of studies of the sorts of facial features people find more attractive?  That was my friend.
Nov 25 00:01:49 <grey-> heh
Nov 25 00:02:12 <grey-> well looks like someone added an app to the market today which will be a good workaround with one of my sms quibbles - sending an sms to a group!
Nov 25 00:02:31 * grey- 's used to symbian being able to mark all ->send sms easily.
Nov 25 00:07:20 <foonixx> grey-: which app is that?
Nov 25 00:07:23 <grey-> errr
Nov 25 00:07:26 <grey-> lemme check, just downloaded it.
Nov 25 00:08:10 <grey-> foonixx: text easy
Nov 25 00:08:12 <grey-> I haven't used it yet.
Nov 25 00:08:14 <foonixx> thx
Nov 25 00:08:29 <grey-> but it sure would've come in handy when I got the thing to update all my friends with new # (didn't do number port)
Nov 25 00:09:09 <KNY> grey-, does it do one text per contact or does it do a multicast-type thing?
Nov 25 00:09:21 <KNY> that could get expensive in a hurry, if it's the former
Nov 25 00:09:31 <grey-> KNY: afaik all sms is 1-to-1
Nov 25 00:09:42 <grey-> KNY: but if your sms application can make it easier for you, so much the better.
Nov 25 00:10:02 <grey-> also $10/mo unlimited sms is a handy thing. ;)
Nov 25 00:10:06 <KNY> yeah
Nov 25 00:10:09 <grey-> but yeah, I've got almost 400 contacts. ;)
Nov 25 00:10:14 <KNY> Gamma-X, do you have a link for Android Flash?
Nov 25 00:10:23 <grey-> let's just say one of my other quibbles with the android sms
Nov 25 00:10:30 <grey-> is when you're sending a lot (say 20+ sms's)
Nov 25 00:10:36 <grey-> the app will (naturally) take some time
Nov 25 00:10:37 <KNY> grey-, as a user who hates getting group SMS, I want to slap that author :)
Nov 25 00:10:39 <Gamma-X> KNY, they only announced it last week. there comin out with it soon i hope.
Nov 25 00:10:44 <grey-> and you get the force quit, wait questioning.
Nov 25 00:10:45 <KNY> Gamma-X, nice
Nov 25 00:11:04 <grey-> KNY: moreover... if it times out an sms
Nov 25 00:11:11 <grey-> it will apparently do some sort of autoretry
Nov 25 00:11:16 <grey-> but also ask you if you want to manually retry.
Nov 25 00:11:33 <grey-> I ended up re-sms'ing some friends 5+ times as a result of that.
Nov 25 00:11:38 <grey-> because I thought they didn't get it
Nov 25 00:11:40 <grey-> so manually resent
Nov 25 00:11:42 <grey-> *sigh*
Nov 25 00:12:06 <grey-> the built-in sms will also start to hang if you input more than 25 or so contacts to send to.
Nov 25 00:12:13 <grey-> had to pop the battery once. ;-/
Nov 25 00:57:09 <KNY> damn it, why is Xorg using 1.7 GiB of RAM?
Nov 25 00:57:10 <KNY> grr
Nov 25 00:57:41 <Leeds> how much memory do you have on your graphics card?
Nov 25 00:58:10 <KNY> 512MB I think
Nov 25 00:58:50 <Leeds> that's a start then... it's probably mapped into Xorg's address space
Nov 25 01:05:40 <KNY> Leeds, `free -m` gives total: 3959 and used: 3208, so I don't think it's that
Nov 25 01:05:47 <KNY> since I have 4 GiB of RAM
Nov 25 01:12:58 <khert> anyone else having trouble mounting their SD card after the RC30 update?
Nov 25 01:14:36 <grey-> huh MSM7201A runs OKL4 which is gpl3'd?
Nov 25 01:15:18 <romainguy_> khert: what's the problem?
Nov 25 01:16:13 <khert> xp won't recognize my g1 when i plug in the usb cable, even tho it's charging off it
Nov 25 01:17:54 <romainguy_> khert: don't you get a notification in the status bar?
Nov 25 01:17:58 <romainguy_> that lets you mount the device
Nov 25 01:17:58 <spikebike> under linux I had to make some tweaks to let it automount
Nov 25 01:18:06 <spikebike> RC28 "just worked"
Nov 25 01:18:27 <khert> yeah, had no problem before the update, now i don't get notification onthe phone or the pc
Nov 25 01:19:09 <romainguy_> what did you get before RC30?
Nov 25 01:19:21 <romainguy_> was it automounting or did you have to go in the status bar to click the USB notification?
Nov 25 01:19:42 <khert> drive e: showed in the pc, a usb icon inthe notification bar, and after mounting i could transfer files
Nov 25 01:19:52 <khert> manual mount
Nov 25 01:20:06 <romainguy_> then I don't know :(
Nov 25 01:20:19 <khert> k
Nov 25 01:22:17 <khert> wonder if a factory reset would do it
Nov 25 01:38:27 <umdk1d3> for a listview that has recycled textviews, would it be faster to use fill_parent on width so it might not have to do an entire refresh of the surroundin view tree?
Nov 25 01:40:35 <umdk1d3> ie, when recalcing the bounds of the updated textview
Nov 25 01:41:13 <eldenz> was there a stereo adapter in the G1 box? http://www.amazon.com/T-Mobile-G1-Stereo-Converter-Adapter/dp/B001GNLZTK
Nov 25 01:42:30 <eldenz> i hate the earphones that were in my box.. does anyone use stock earphones anyway?
Nov 25 01:42:45 <grey-> I am currently.
Nov 25 01:42:52 <grey-> need to get one of those headphone jack dealios
Nov 25 01:43:08 <eldenz> i don't understand why they didn't make that stock earphone unpluggable /after/ the device for volume
Nov 25 01:43:26 <grey-> well they did in what's shipping now, right?
Nov 25 01:43:50 <KNY> has anyone else seen performance problems with ListActivity?
Nov 25 01:43:57 <eldenz> grey-, what do you mean?
Nov 25 01:44:05 <KNY> if you have long lists, scrolling is dog slow
Nov 25 01:44:51 <eldenz> grey-, i don't know how to call it but that earphone has that volumethingie.. ;) and it would be pretty usefull to have for my own headphones...
Nov 25 01:45:09 <grey-> eldenz: http://androidcommunity.com/t-mobile-g1-now-shipping-with-35mm-headphone-jack-20081120/
Nov 25 01:45:29 <eldenz> whaaaaaaaat
Nov 25 01:45:50 <eldenz> i want that :f
Nov 25 01:45:53 <grey-> the title is misleading.
Nov 25 01:46:02 <grey-> no jack on the phone, just a usb-> jack adapter.
Nov 25 01:46:06 <eldenz> yeah, well i don't mind carrying an adapter :)
Nov 25 01:46:29 <eldenz> but i hate carrying around two earphones :P (one for mp3 player and one for g1 plz)
Nov 25 01:47:13 <eldenz> that's actually even better with the adapter.. if you can adjust volume
Nov 25 01:47:24 <eldenz> and play/pause
Nov 25 01:47:28 <grey-> yeah not sure.
Nov 25 01:47:58 <Damm> the idea of using the g1 for music makes me laugh... do you need to charge your ipod every 12 hours?
Nov 25 01:48:13 <grey-> *shrug* iphone gets similar battery life.
Nov 25 01:48:20 <grey-> and is also the 'next' ipod, right? ;)
Nov 25 01:48:35 <grey-> albeit the music player is arguably much nicer on an iphone.
Nov 25 01:49:42 <Damm> i get about 36hours of playtime on my ipod... (i think) ... i charge it every 1.5weeks
Nov 25 01:49:55 <grey-> *nod*
Nov 25 01:50:02 <eldenz> *nod*
Nov 25 01:50:27 <eldenz> except mine is a shuffle :f
Nov 25 01:50:29 <Damm> and i said ipod... not ihockey(iphone)...
Nov 25 01:50:56 <eldenz> it's still apple :p
Nov 25 01:51:41 <Damm> i would not turn down a free iphone, but i would not pay for that phone/service at all
Nov 25 01:52:05 <Damm> yes it is... the less sucky side of apple
Nov 25 01:53:19 <Damm> i love apple... i just think the iphone is a sick joke
Nov 25 02:03:04 <Gary|tp> Damm: you're going to be charging your phone anyway
Nov 25 02:03:08 <Gary|tp> why not use it as an MP3 player
Nov 25 02:03:16 <Gary|tp> beats carrying around two devices
Nov 25 02:03:31 <Gary|tp> has 'net access for streaming
Nov 25 02:04:16 <Gary|tp> "Well it sounds like T-Mobile has taken note of this problem and now has a fix for those who have not yet purchased the G1."
Nov 25 02:04:31 <Gary|tp> Why does that post make it sound like it's a T-Mobile issue? HTC handles that, not T-Mobile.
Nov 25 02:11:26 <umdk1d3> hmm WebView appears to not like certain types of urls
Nov 25 02:12:17 <umdk1d3> or maybe its not liking the content-type being returned
Nov 25 02:15:13 <kRutOn> umdk1d3: sup
Nov 25 02:16:03 <kRutOn> I need finer control of glyph substitution...
Nov 25 02:16:16 <kRutOn> or, really, any control
Nov 25 02:16:42 <umdk1d3> kRutOn: not much  :)
Nov 25 02:16:52 <umdk1d3> finally on something non-dialupish  ;)
Nov 25 02:17:16 <umdk1d3> just pulled 20mbps easily at old univ  ^.^
Nov 25 02:34:20 <`vip> if a friend just bought a G1, how long until he should receive RC30 ?
Nov 25 02:36:25 <jbq> typically a few days
Nov 25 02:50:32 <P2E> is it just me or is wifi not working at all on my g1 =[
Nov 25 02:50:45 <P2E> is there something I could have broken (I can connect to a wap just fine
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 25 02:59:57 2008