**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 25 02:59:57 2008
Nov 25 03:01:20 <unix_infidel> anyone ever get the G1 at walmart for 150?
Nov 25 03:05:22 <gambler> does walmart sell them without a contract?
Nov 25 03:08:56 <Leeds> not for $150, they don't
Nov 25 03:09:28 <unix_infidel> heh, that's my point, they have to put it on the shelf before they can price it. so that's why i'm asking ;-)
Nov 25 03:11:08 <spikebike> ya, I'd expect $400 ish without contract
Nov 25 03:11:24 <spikebike> maybe $350 if they are undercutting tmo
Nov 25 03:19:04 <Leeds> even the out-of-contract ones need unlocking, right?
Nov 25 03:20:51 <spikebike> ya
Nov 25 03:20:54 <spikebike> $23 ish
Nov 25 03:21:03 <spikebike> htc doesn't sell direct yet 8-(
Nov 25 03:24:55 <KNY> spikebike, they charged you to unlock?
Nov 25 03:27:21 <spikebike> a 3rd party does
Nov 25 03:27:27 <spikebike> tmo will unlock after 90 days or simialr
Nov 25 03:32:18 <KNY> I will be extremely grateful to anyone who can tell me how to get rid of the outline and properties views in eclipse
Nov 25 03:32:19 <KNY> for good
Nov 25 03:32:39 <romainguy> create a new perspective
Nov 25 03:35:02 <KNY> romainguy, I tried it, we'll see if they come back
Nov 25 03:35:17 <KNY> I keep clicking their "close" buttons but they keep popping up and stealing focus at the worst times
Nov 25 03:35:42 * offby1 steals KNY's focus, along with his prized Chimay
Nov 25 03:36:23 * KNY cuts off offby1's hands for thievery
Nov 25 03:36:58 <Leeds> KNY: you have Chimay?
Nov 25 03:37:27 <KNY> I have no idea what Chimay is
Nov 25 03:38:34 <KNY> Leeds, for comparison, I just rebooted and Xorg is using 43.3 MiB of RAM
Nov 25 03:38:45 <KNY> in like 12 hours it'll be using ~2 GiB
Nov 25 03:39:03 <Leeds> are you using firefox 2 by any chance?
Nov 25 03:39:11 <KNY> nope
Nov 25 03:39:12 <offby1> KNY: I may not have any hands, but I have known Chimay
Nov 25 03:40:14 <P2E> no one has ever had trouble with wifi connectivity have they
Nov 25 03:41:03 * jbq knows a good way to get rid of any annoyance in Eclipse, but that's not usually what people want to hear ;-)
Nov 25 03:41:18 <romainguy> jbq: it's called IntelliJ ^^
Nov 25 03:41:20 <romainguy> :runrunrun:
Nov 25 03:41:22 <Leeds> jbq: use vim/emacs?
Nov 25 03:42:05 <jbq> romainguy: well, I also know a way to get rid of any IntelliJ annoyance ;-)
Nov 25 03:42:16 <jbq> Leeds: pick your poison...
Nov 25 03:42:16 <romainguy> jbq: /ignore jbq? :)
Nov 25 03:42:33 <Leeds> vim4me
Nov 25 03:44:58 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 25 03:45:56 * jbq orders a new battery for his PSP.
Nov 25 03:46:02 <romainguy> jbq: pandora?
Nov 25 03:46:22 <jbq> romainguy: no, just old PSP where the battery doesn't last 10 minutes any more.
Nov 25 03:46:32 <jbq> (to play games on the go)
Nov 25 03:46:40 <romainguy> as opposed to the 20 minutes you get with a fresh battery? :)
Nov 25 03:47:00 <jbq> it used to last a few hours for me.
Nov 25 03:47:10 <romainguy> yeah I get about 4 hours while playing
Nov 25 03:47:17 <romainguy> but it sucks for a portable gaming system
Nov 25 03:48:11 <jbq> I like to just have it in the car, stop somewhere quiet, and play for a while.
Nov 25 03:48:24 <jbq> The GBA is way more portable, but the games just aren't the same.
Nov 25 03:48:36 <romainguy> I actually play a lot more on GBA/DS
Nov 25 03:48:43 <romainguy> I'm deeply bored by the PSP games
Nov 25 03:48:51 <romainguy> I mean, for the very few that come out :)
Nov 25 03:50:16 <KNY> the DS is so useless without a DSTT
Nov 25 03:50:23 <romainguy> DSTT?
Nov 25 03:50:40 <KNY> allows you to play ROMS off a microsd card
Nov 25 03:50:50 <romainguy> ah
Nov 25 03:50:54 <romainguy> you're that kind of gamer
Nov 25 03:50:56 <KNY> I can carry all my games without any carts
Nov 25 03:51:01 <romainguy> :)
Nov 25 03:51:07 <KNY> oh don't get me wrong, I don't do it for the free games
Nov 25 03:51:22 <KNY> it's just that I'm not about to carry all my games with me all the time
Nov 25 03:51:22 <romainguy> DS games are far from being hard to carry around
Nov 25 03:51:25 <romainguy> given their size... :))
Nov 25 03:51:43 <Leeds> but isn't Andoid the perfect gaming platform?
Nov 25 03:51:51 <KNY> yeah but can you hit L+R+A+B+X+Y and drop back to a list of all your games in under a second? :)
Nov 25 03:52:03 <romainguy> KNY: I'm not that in a hurry
Nov 25 03:52:19 * KNY shrugs
Nov 25 03:52:33 <KNY> I would play my ds like, once a month before I got a DSTT
Nov 25 03:52:54 <KNY> I'd recommend getting one, but it seems that you're one of the morally-opposed gamers ;)
Nov 25 03:53:03 <romainguy> I am indeed :)
Nov 25 03:53:33 <romainguy> because of (a short) experience in the industry and many friends who work in the industry
Nov 25 03:54:09 <KNY> I have zero problems paying for games. I just hate carrying them around.
Nov 25 03:54:18 <romainguy> I understand
Nov 25 03:54:26 <romainguy> I'm just saying that DS games don't bother me to carry around
Nov 25 03:54:30 <romainguy> PSP games are more annoying
Nov 25 03:54:36 <romainguy> they need protection :(
Nov 25 03:55:49 <KNY> haha definitely
Nov 25 03:55:52 <KNY> optical media ftl
Nov 25 03:56:37 <romainguy> at least now I got the 2nd rev of the PSP, it stopped throwing the discs across the room when opening the lid
Nov 25 03:56:45 <jbq> lol
Nov 25 03:56:55 <romainguy> my first one was the first batch of Japanese PSP
Nov 25 03:57:08 <romainguy> let's say that it was a pretty and shiny as rushed and unfinished inside :)
Nov 25 03:57:18 <unix_infidel> would the G1 be a viable gaming platform when you only have around 100MB real world to work with?
Nov 25 03:57:18 <jbq> lol
Nov 25 03:57:52 <KNY> unix_infidel, very few DS ROMs are over 64MB
Nov 25 03:57:59 <romainguy> unix_infidel: size is not the problem
Nov 25 03:58:15 <romainguy> unix_infidel: it's more the hardware
Nov 25 03:58:21 <jbq> unix_infidel: well, a game could store its assets on the SD card (possibly downloaded through a PC). My concern would be battery life, and the fact that once you've run through your battery you have no phone left.
Nov 25 03:58:21 <romainguy> especially the trackball ^^
Nov 25 03:58:23 <unix_infidel> KNY: and how many games would you say make a platform appealing.
Nov 25 03:58:31 <romainguy> (at least we don't ha to play games with the sensors like on iPhone !##)
Nov 25 03:58:46 <romainguy> unix_infidel: one is enough :)
Nov 25 03:59:45 <unix_infidel> same thing was said of a number quite like 640K
Nov 25 04:00:02 <Damm> 640k?
Nov 25 04:00:07 <Damm> the barrier still exists on your phone!
Nov 25 04:00:07 <Damm> hah
Nov 25 04:00:12 <Damm> now that's fud.
Nov 25 04:00:13 <romainguy> except history showed that one game is enough to sell loads of consoles :)
Nov 25 04:00:14 <KNY> unix_infidel, just one, if it's good
Nov 25 04:00:37 <jbq> romainguy: GT3? ;-) (I bought my PS2 for it)
Nov 25 04:00:53 <unix_infidel> romainguy: that is, if you're interested in selling...stuff.
Nov 25 04:01:01 <romainguy> jbq: Tetris for the GameBoy, Super Mario Bros for the NES, Halo for the Xbox, etc.
Nov 25 04:01:16 <KNY> Goldeneye for the N64 (in my experience)
Nov 25 04:01:22 <unix_infidel> KNY: good call ;-)
Nov 25 04:01:41 <romainguy> unix_infidel: that's the best way to get a salary at the end of the month, selling stuff :)
Nov 25 04:02:18 <unix_infidel> didnt know google was in the business of selling stuff ;-P
Nov 25 04:02:36 <romainguy> like ads?
Nov 25 04:02:59 <unix_infidel> ugh, where did all these worms come from ;-)
Nov 25 04:03:15 <romainguy> go click on a few links :p
Nov 25 04:11:19 <herriojr> hey, has anyone run into the problem while trying to write to the stream that is returned by calling insert on Images.Media.EXTERNAL_CONTENT_URI, that it never actually creates the file?
Nov 25 04:12:43 <romainguy> insert() doesn't return a URI to a file
Nov 25 04:12:57 <herriojr> it returns the uri that you open the output stream on
Nov 25 04:12:59 <bert0>    Is there any way to pass audio from a file into a call?
Nov 25 04:14:07 <romainguy> do you get any IOException herriojr?
Nov 25 04:14:39 <herriojr> nope, not at all
Nov 25 04:14:43 <herriojr> that's why I'm confused
Nov 25 04:14:55 <romainguy> what happens when you write in the outputstream?
Nov 25 04:15:48 <offby1> the fish die
Nov 25 04:16:09 <KNY> I love when people email you application suggestions. "Hey make one where you can like listen to the radio,just like we put in the radio station but make it easy plez and make sure it work"
Nov 25 04:16:12 * KNY sighs
Nov 25 04:17:24 <offby1> damn those users.  If only ...
Nov 25 04:17:28 <herriojr> Bitmap b2 = BitmapFactory.decodeResource(getResource(),resource);.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 50, outStream)
Nov 25 04:17:32 <herriojr> oops
Nov 25 04:17:34 <herriojr> wasn't finished
Nov 25 04:17:42 <herriojr> basically, when I compress to the stream, it returns true
Nov 25 04:18:38 <herriojr> let me pastebin the code
Nov 25 04:19:27 <herriojr> http://pastebin.ca/1266401
Nov 25 04:20:14 <herriojr> when I go to the pictures application, I don't see the images
Nov 25 04:20:33 <herriojr> I basically copy+pasted this code from another application I wrote, and it worked fine in the other app
Nov 25 04:22:33 <herriojr> romainguy: does anything in that look strange to you?  I'm calling the function like: storePNGImage(R.drawable.icon, "The Icon", null);
Nov 25 04:25:16 <herriojr> and R.drawable.icon does exist
Nov 25 04:25:27 <KNY> offby1, I replied to that guy saying that the G1 doesn't have radio hardware and here's what I got back: "O dude un cool weel can you add fun stuff"
Nov 25 04:30:53 * BHSPitMonkey orders a zzzphone
Nov 25 04:32:45 <benley> no dood you should get a http://www.pomegranitephone.com
Nov 25 04:33:32 <offby1> KNY: just smile and back away slowly
Nov 25 04:34:11 <romainguy> herriojr: no idea what's going on
Nov 25 04:34:13 <KNY> offby1, I was like "So-and-so, I'll do my best. Cheers, KNY" and he replied back with some variant of "Awesome! thanks man!"
Nov 25 04:34:29 <BHSPitMonkey> benley, that phone is what I want, when I need it
Nov 25 04:34:56 <unix_infidel> need?
Nov 25 04:35:30 <herriojr> and this isn't really an error I can report, since it is only reproducible in this app and nothing else....I can't make a test case to show it
Nov 25 04:35:47 <P2E> ok, screw this, I'm updating because my wifi is broken
Nov 25 04:35:54 <P2E> and I'd love for it to be fixed
Nov 25 04:36:00 <P2E> and maybe r30 fixes it
Nov 25 04:36:22 <Leeds> before you update to r30...
Nov 25 04:37:13 <benley> is there actually fun stuff you can do with a rooted g1 that you can't do otherwise yet?
Nov 25 04:37:28 <romainguy> depends what kind of user you are
Nov 25 04:37:40 <unix_infidel> the fun kind?
Nov 25 04:37:51 <KNY> depends on what you do for fun
Nov 25 04:37:57 <unix_infidel> fun stuff?
Nov 25 04:38:06 * unix_infidel has Louis CK flashback ;-)
Nov 25 04:38:12 <KNY> unix_infidel, in that case, yes ;)
Nov 25 04:38:16 <BHSPitMonkey> unix_infidel, sorry, you are not a fun person
Nov 25 04:38:35 * BHSPitMonkey has decreed it.
Nov 25 04:40:36 <unix_infidel> benley: there is fun stuff yes, but no one has been able to make it "turn key" fun stuff as of yet.  seeing as the platform is literally just about a month old.
Nov 25 04:41:14 <benley> unix_infidel: maybe from your perspective it's only a month old :)
Nov 25 04:42:01 <P2E> Leeds: uh. waiting for what comes after the ...
Nov 25 04:42:24 <unix_infidel> benley: yes from everyone's perspective who's soul isnt tethered to a large stone with an NDA etched in on it ;-)
Nov 25 04:42:30 <Leeds> P2E: do you have root? do you want root? do you want to keep root?
Nov 25 04:42:41 <benley> Heh.
Nov 25 04:42:59 <P2E> there are things I could want root for but I can't really seem to run the things that would require those permissions.
Nov 25 04:43:04 <P2E> like
Nov 25 04:43:17 <P2E> how would I become root in the first place from a terminal?
Nov 25 04:43:37 <P2E> I can't even run whoami
Nov 25 04:43:48 <benley> su
Nov 25 04:43:57 <P2E> can't do that either.
Nov 25 04:44:07 <P2E> and I tried sudo bash
Nov 25 04:44:12 <P2E> just for the hell of it
Nov 25 04:45:26 <herriojr> you have to find another application that is running root and exploit it to run root commands
Nov 25 04:45:33 <herriojr> that's how the original root bug was found
Nov 25 04:45:57 <herriojr> kind of by accident
Nov 25 04:51:05 <herriojr> basically, go through the android source and see if you can see anything you can exploit
Nov 25 04:51:21 <herriojr> eventually they'll all get plugged up
Nov 25 04:51:21 <romainguy> we're still waiting for a real exploit :p
Nov 25 04:51:34 <P2E> I guess I just don't really see a bonus right now
Nov 25 04:51:48 <P2E> I'm sure I will later and then I'll regret upgrading
Nov 25 04:52:11 <RyeBrye> P2E - type "id"
Nov 25 04:52:27 <RyeBrye> P2E - install busybox, it gives you a lot of commands that aren't in android
Nov 25 04:52:29 <herriojr> maybe you can somehow exploit the over-the-air os updater
Nov 25 04:52:34 <P2E> 10054
Nov 25 04:53:00 <P2E> doesn't seem to be 1 =]
Nov 25 04:53:28 <RyeBrye> what RC are you on?
Nov 25 04:53:33 <P2E> 29
Nov 25 04:53:37 <P2E> phone shipped that way
Nov 25 04:53:51 <RyeBrye> reboot, on the phone type "telnetd" - then telnet into the phone over wifi
Nov 25 04:53:57 <RyeBrye> that's the only way to get root on the phone
Nov 25 04:54:07 <P2E> oh, hmm
Nov 25 04:54:09 <P2E> well, I just ran that
Nov 25 04:54:22 <RyeBrye> did you connect from telnet?
Nov 25 04:54:45 <RyeBrye> Running telnetd doesn't magically make you root - it's just that the phone happens to echo crap to the root shell, and so running telnetd as root will give you the ability to get in as root
Nov 25 04:54:57 <P2E> no, I understand how telnet works
Nov 25 04:55:06 <RyeBrye> did you telnet into the phone?
Nov 25 04:55:10 <P2E> I just did, now
Nov 25 04:55:13 <RyeBrye> Ok
Nov 25 04:55:15 <P2E> I was using a terminal on the phone before
Nov 25 04:55:15 <RyeBrye> so you see the # ?
Nov 25 04:55:19 <P2E> yes, now I'm uid0
Nov 25 04:55:23 <RyeBrye> Yep, now you are root
Nov 25 04:55:25 <P2E> ok, I have root access.
Nov 25 04:55:30 <RyeBrye> you can read the android wiki to see how to preserve it and such
Nov 25 04:55:51 <P2E> is the android wiki official google stuff?
Nov 25 04:56:18 <P2E> also, there is a pretty severe amount of lag between my machine and the phone, is this normal or should it be snappy (I'm trying to figure out if something is physically wrong with my phone)
Nov 25 04:58:27 <P2E> argh, now I can't telnet again
Nov 25 04:58:35 <P2E> does telnetd die when the phone sleeps?
Nov 25 04:59:01 <spikebike> ya
Nov 25 04:59:11 <P2E> ugh, ok
Nov 25 04:59:16 <P2E> I'll plug it in and tell it not to sleep
Nov 25 04:59:43 <spikebike> and exits telnetd when you kill the last connection
Nov 25 05:02:03 <P2E> hrm
Nov 25 05:02:04 <P2E> refused
Nov 25 05:02:14 <P2E> I know the ip's right...
Nov 25 05:08:53 <Leeds> the easiest way to get in is to use adb to redirect the telnet port, in my limited experience
Nov 25 05:09:39 <P2E> eh. rebooted and I'm in again
Nov 25 05:09:49 <P2E> still a really laggy connection
Nov 25 05:09:52 <P2E> seems weird
Nov 25 05:10:17 <P2E> should it be this slow?
Nov 25 05:10:57 <P2E> (about as slow as, say, ssh over grps)
Nov 25 05:10:59 <P2E> er, gprs
Nov 25 05:11:16 <herriojr> romainguy: so, it seems to be somehow placing it in a location where only my application can access it
Nov 25 05:11:30 <romainguy> in /data?
Nov 25 05:11:31 <herriojr> romainguy: in reference to the images being written
Nov 25 05:12:06 <herriojr> it says it is in /external/images/media/114
Nov 25 05:12:41 <herriojr> but for some reason, I can only see it in my own application...meaning I can pull it out of there, but when I try to access it elsewhere, the images don't appear
Nov 25 05:13:00 <herriojr> when I try to access it in other applications, it doesn't exist
Nov 25 05:13:13 <herriojr> sorry, I'm tired and my line of thought is starting to disappear
Nov 25 05:14:24 <romainguy> herriojr: but that's a content:// URI right?
Nov 25 05:14:37 <P2E> hmm
Nov 25 05:14:42 <P2E> how much ram does this thing have anyway
Nov 25 05:14:53 <P2E> and can I turn off something like myfaves to get more battery life
Nov 25 05:14:54 <herriojr> oh, I'm just telling you what I print out with uri.fromPath()
Nov 25 05:15:02 <romainguy> what's the scheme?
Nov 25 05:15:06 <romainguy> it doesn't point to a file
Nov 25 05:15:17 <romainguy> it points to a content:// URI to be used with ContentResolver.query()
Nov 25 05:15:56 <P2E> app_8    106   32    89924 13196 ffffffff afe0c824 S com.tmobile.myfaves
Nov 25 05:16:02 <herriojr> I'm sorry, the scheme for what?
Nov 25 05:16:04 <P2E> seems like 13M of ram I don't need to be wasting
Nov 25 05:16:06 <romainguy> the scheme of the URI
Nov 25 05:16:25 <romainguy> P2E: it contains all your contacts
Nov 25 05:16:29 <romainguy> so you probably want to keep it
Nov 25 05:16:34 <herriojr> yes, it's content://
Nov 25 05:16:35 <P2E> oh. nevermind =]
Nov 25 05:16:44 <romainguy> btw
Nov 25 05:16:52 <romainguy> *never* clear the data for myFaves in settings > apps > manage apps
Nov 25 05:16:57 <romainguy> you'd lose all your contacts :))
Nov 25 05:17:05 <romainguy> herriojr: then you have to use ContentResolver.query()
Nov 25 05:18:00 <P2E> wait, are these values in k, or bytes?
Nov 25 05:18:32 <romainguy> depends
Nov 25 05:18:34 <romainguy> what are they?
Nov 25 05:18:37 <P2E> I'm assuming k
Nov 25 05:18:38 <romainguy> is that just a ps output?
Nov 25 05:18:42 <P2E> root     246   61    724   324   c0049a2c afe0c4cc S /system/bin/sh
Nov 25 05:18:44 <P2E> yes.
Nov 25 05:19:42 <romainguy> it's in k
Nov 25 05:20:10 <herriojr> romainguy: so where on the sdcard should the image be stored?  I'll use glance to see if anything is written
Nov 25 05:20:36 <romainguy> herriojr: what folders do you have on your sdcard?
Nov 25 05:20:57 <herriojr> Music, albumthumbs, dcim, .Trash-1000, download
Nov 25 05:21:18 <romainguy> hmm I would need to check the source code
Nov 25 05:21:27 <Nafai> is there not a way for me to browse the apps available in the Android Market from a desktop machine?  I'm getting a G1 soon and wanted to see what's available
Nov 25 05:23:00 <herriojr> well, I have a crapload of images in /sdcard/dcim/Camera, but I only see 1 under pictures
Nov 25 05:23:12 <herriojr> and their jpg, so not the format I told it to write in
Nov 25 05:23:17 <herriojr> *they're
Nov 25 05:23:52 <P2E> Nafai: 77?
Nov 25 05:24:16 <Nafai> 77
Nov 25 05:24:19 <Nafai> ?
Nov 25 05:25:11 <P2E> oh. thought I knew you for a second.
Nov 25 05:25:20 <P2E> oh. maybe I do =]
Nov 25 05:25:27 <Nafai> You do :)
Nov 25 05:26:47 <herriojr> romainguy: ok, I've found the images on the sdcard, but they're in jpeg not png format and I can't view them under Pictures, what would cause Pictures not to be able to see them?
Nov 25 05:27:11 <romainguy> no idea
Nov 25 05:27:20 <romainguy> have you tried to reboot to force a media scan?
Nov 25 05:27:30 <herriojr> how do I force a media scan?
Nov 25 05:27:36 <herriojr> reboot
Nov 25 05:27:40 <herriojr> sorry, didn't see that
Nov 25 05:27:41 <romainguy> a reboot will work
Nov 25 05:27:43 <herriojr> ok, I'll try that
Nov 25 05:27:45 <romainguy> you can also send an intent
Nov 25 05:27:48 <romainguy> don't remember which one though
Nov 25 05:28:47 <P2E> is there anything good to stream vorbis in android?
Nov 25 05:28:48 <herriojr> so, when I tell it to write the file as png, is there a reason it writes it as jpg?
Nov 25 05:29:23 <romainguy> because the outpustream probably doesn't write it in the file directly
Nov 25 05:29:54 <herriojr> ok, that did it
Nov 25 05:30:06 <herriojr> with at least seeing it on the sdcard
Nov 25 05:42:06 <herriojr> is there a way to get the Pictures application to refresh without resetting?
Nov 25 05:42:29 <romainguy> "romainguy: you can also send an intent"
Nov 25 06:35:36 <fnord> hmm is there a way to specify which contacts are synced to the phone?
Nov 25 06:35:53 <grey-> I think it's all of them, no?
Nov 25 06:36:06 <grey-> no granularity with syncing afaik.
Nov 25 06:36:20 <grey-> same with e.g. OSX address book <-> gmail contact sync.
Nov 25 06:36:26 <grey-> all contacts synced.
Nov 25 06:36:27 <fnord> it's not importing gmail contacts, but a number isn't associated with it
Nov 25 06:36:37 <fnord> i'm concerned about phone contacts
Nov 25 06:36:51 <grey-> (I have noticed a bug in syncing addressbook -> gmail in that hone numbers with dashes don't get synced)
Nov 25 06:37:11 <grey-> fnord: so you have a contact that -isn't- being synced?
Nov 25 06:38:00 <fnord> email contacts don't get put on the dialer, no
Nov 25 06:38:16 <fnord> basically i need to clean out my HUGE list of numbers from my 5 yr old sim
Nov 25 06:38:32 <grey-> ah, hmm.
Nov 25 06:38:34 <grey-> weird.
Nov 25 06:38:40 <fnord> wondering what happens if I delete them at google.com...do they go off the phone? do they reappear?
Nov 25 06:38:57 <fnord> do i need to delete from both to keep something from appearing on the other? etc, etc
Nov 25 06:39:42 <grey-> my experience if it gets deleted on one, it gets deleted on the other.
Nov 25 06:39:46 <grey-> unless you've turned off syncing.
Nov 25 06:39:53 <grey-> [until you turn it back on]
Nov 25 06:39:53 <fnord> aha
Nov 25 06:40:25 <fnord> oh nice. i can just create an 'old' group and it won't display by default
Nov 25 06:40:51 <grey-> hmm!
Nov 25 06:41:14 <fnord> hrm
Nov 25 06:41:21 <fnord> but it won't go off the 'my contacts' grp
Nov 25 06:42:30 <fnord> and deleting them deletes them off the old group. fooie
Nov 25 06:54:29 <P2E> argh my phone is being wholly too retarded
Nov 25 07:44:58 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 25 07:51:00 <kRutOn> hm, looks like the only way to control glyph substitution is to make a font that has all the BMP glyphs accounted forj
Nov 25 08:00:52 <rip> is there any way build and test external/opencore/engines/player ? there are few sample application file given ?
Nov 25 08:01:04 <rip> is it possible ? has any one tried ?
Nov 25 08:04:59 <Gary|tp> oh shit
Nov 25 08:05:06 <Gary|tp> we were talking about this yesterday :o
Nov 25 08:05:08 <Gary|tp> GC app is out
Nov 25 08:19:17 <Leeds> GC?
Nov 25 08:56:11 <rip_> has any one triedn running the OpenCORE test framework (the one mentioned in "pvplayer_engine_unit_test_guide.pdf") after building the entire Android source ?
Nov 25 08:59:06 <rip_> has any one triedn running the OpenCORE test framework (the one mentioned in "pvplayer_engine_unit_test_guide.pdf") after building the entire Android source ?
Nov 25 09:31:15 <DarkriftX> i hate idiots who repeat the same thing over and over without even having it leave the screen
Nov 25 11:44:58 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 25 12:40:30 <rip> how do i test the pv player from command line ?
Nov 25 12:49:25 <rip> is it possible ?
Nov 25 13:00:04 <kslater> my daughter tossed mine early in it's life playing Bonzai
Nov 25 13:00:35 <kslater> had to snap something back into place, but it survived
Nov 25 13:01:12 * kslater realizes he's trying to respond to an ancient comment
Nov 25 13:01:35 <kslater> anyone working on an OWA mail client? I'd gladly pay some $ for that app about now.
Nov 25 13:19:10 <blau> grr something works in emu but not my stupid g1
Nov 25 13:22:38 <blau> and my host is down grrr
Nov 25 13:28:25 <blau> for some reason i seem to be cacheing an old copy of this file
Nov 25 13:28:26 <blau> wtf
Nov 25 13:29:40 <blau> it doesnt make sense at all
Nov 25 13:30:04 <blau> really weird
Nov 25 13:30:10 <blau> i had to go into the browser and refresh
Nov 25 13:30:26 <blau> because somehow i was egtting old data with 		URLConnection connection = url.openConnection();
Nov 25 13:37:00 <blau> really weird
Nov 25 14:09:09 <andreaf> mmm, if I add an onclicklistener to a imagebutton I have to enable some permission in the manifest ?
Nov 25 14:18:24 <gfindster> hello all
Nov 25 14:18:36 <gfindster> r u there
Nov 25 14:21:11 <snadge> is there a website about hacking the g1 phone?
Nov 25 14:21:33 <snadge> i cant figure out how to share internet using bluetooth pan for example
Nov 25 14:21:57 <snadge> the manual that comes with it is practically useless ;)
Nov 25 14:24:05 <blau> grandcentral rocks
Nov 25 14:25:13 <pctechnerd> Hello everyone
Nov 25 14:25:22 <blau> hi
Nov 25 14:25:29 <pctechnerd> how is everyone doing?
Nov 25 14:25:35 <ttuttle> great
Nov 25 14:25:39 <pctechnerd> glad to hear it
Nov 25 14:25:54 <pctechnerd> I've been doing my daily android info search, and thought I'd stop by and say hi
Nov 25 14:25:55 <pctechnerd> lol
Nov 25 14:26:21 <pctechnerd> found good info, found good research, found bad info
Nov 25 14:26:31 <pctechnerd> for the most part not very dissappointing at all
Nov 25 14:26:39 <pctechnerd> I love my lil droid phone
Nov 25 14:27:09 <pctechnerd> so what's everyone up to?
Nov 25 14:28:29 <pctechnerd> anyone?  lol
Nov 25 14:30:54 <pctechnerd> I myself was researching bluetooth profile updates for android, among other things
Nov 25 14:31:13 <pctechnerd> and also still trying to find a freaking way to get into Grand Central lol.  It's the only google tool that's out of my reach
Nov 25 14:31:15 <pctechnerd> hahaha
Nov 25 14:32:09 <pctechnerd> found some info on bluetooth stack updates, which is good.  Also found info on base program updates
Nov 25 14:32:20 <pctechnerd> afk for a smoke
Nov 25 14:33:56 <snadge> i bought an unlocked g1 phone from wireless warehouse in manhattan
Nov 25 14:34:03 <snadge> for $550
Nov 25 14:34:19 <snadge> is that ok? :P
Nov 25 14:34:33 <pctechnerd> it's ok if you are ok with paying that
Nov 25 14:34:44 <pctechnerd> worth is defined by the owner, not the population
Nov 25 14:34:49 <pctechnerd> now afk for a smoke
Nov 25 14:34:56 <snadge> well not really.. i mean, i really wanted an android based phone
Nov 25 14:36:13 <gfindster_and> hi all
Nov 25 14:36:33 <snadge> so far im quite happy with it.. but i want to know if i can share 3g internet via bluetooth pan, or the usb cable
Nov 25 14:37:11 <gfindster> i am interested to get g1 for testing
Nov 25 14:42:56 <snadge> it would appear that the g1.. whilst i love it, the software and interface etc.. its a little bit basic
Nov 25 14:43:13 <snadge> and t-mobile have practically ruined it by being so anal about forcing people onto a plan
Nov 25 14:43:22 <blau> what makes you say the interface is basic
Nov 25 14:43:44 <snadge> well its not so much basic, but for example.. not being able to use the g1 as a 3g modem for say, a laptop, or a pc
Nov 25 14:43:46 <snadge> thats annoying
Nov 25 14:43:58 <snadge> the bluetooth only being useful for wireless headsets??
Nov 25 14:44:00 <Death_Syn> yeah, i do rather want to tether my g1
Nov 25 14:44:11 <Death_Syn> att's network around here is dog slow
Nov 25 14:44:23 <blau> do any "smart" phones allow you to do anything useful with bluetooth besides headsets?
Nov 25 14:44:24 <andyross> The interface is spare.  There are certainly some feaures that would be nice (video, better bluetooth integration).  Not sure what the complaint is about the TMO plan.  Subsidized phones are the rule these days, and the G1 isn't particularly notable.
Nov 25 14:44:38 <blau> i always hear peopple bitching about bluetooth when a new smartphone comes out
Nov 25 14:44:53 <snadge> my friend has a htc titan tytn ii.. it allows to share internet (ie tethering)
Nov 25 14:45:06 <Death_Syn> blau: my treo would allow tethering, hotsynching and some other fun stuff over bluetooth
Nov 25 14:45:25 <blau> out of the box?
Nov 25 14:45:28 <snadge> the only reason i didnt buy one.. is because it runs windows
Nov 25 14:45:32 <Death_Syn> blau: yeah
Nov 25 14:45:39 <snadge> i pay him out because its extremely slow.. and it crashes ALL the time
Nov 25 14:45:40 <andyross> Standard bluetooth stuff is OBEX and headsets, and sometimes DUN.  The G1 does headsets.
Nov 25 14:45:53 <Death_Syn> andyross: right
Nov 25 14:45:55 <blau> oh, winmo treo
Nov 25 14:46:00 <Death_Syn> no, my treo is palm
Nov 25 14:46:03 <Death_Syn> palmos
Nov 25 14:46:11 <snadge> i dont think my friends winmo phone has had an uptime greater than about 2 days.. is that a standard winmo thing? :P
Nov 25 14:46:13 <Death_Syn> i never would do a winmo treo
Nov 25 14:46:20 <blau> how do you do that?
Nov 25 14:46:24 <Death_Syn> i had a samsung winmo phone once
Nov 25 14:46:33 <gfindster> scroll view is not scrolling up? any samples
Nov 25 14:46:51 <Death_Syn> snadge: my samsung would last a week uptime wise, if I barely used it
Nov 25 14:46:54 <snadge> i bought a "crippled" g1 phone.. over anything else.. because well.. its vastly superior, despite its limitations
Nov 25 14:47:14 <blau> death: how do i enable tethering?
Nov 25 14:47:43 <blau> ive been using usbmodem for my centro
Nov 25 14:48:10 <snadge> i was hoping there was some kind of unofficial "g1" hacking site.. which explains how to do things t-mobile doesnt want you to.. and actually get some real use out of your phone
Nov 25 14:48:33 <snadge> ie.. installing ssh, changing your gmail address.. bypassing the registration procedure, or using it with a non t-mobile sim etc
Nov 25 14:48:39 <Death_Syn> blau: I basically turned on the bluetooth serial connection, and then dialed over that
Nov 25 14:48:50 <andyross> snadge: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448
Nov 25 14:49:03 <Death_Syn> snadge: connectbot is your ssh client
Nov 25 14:49:07 <Death_Syn> its on the market, even
Nov 25 14:49:15 <andyross> The upshot is basically, "don't upgrade to RC30"
Nov 25 14:49:18 <blau> i think he wants to actually ssh into the phone
Nov 25 14:49:23 <Death_Syn> oh
Nov 25 14:49:26 <Death_Syn> he wants sshd
Nov 25 14:49:41 <Death_Syn> yeah, wouldn't mind that myself
Nov 25 14:49:42 <jbq> funny how when something is not possible people automatically assume "someone doesn't want me to do this"
Nov 25 14:49:47 <snadge> right.. but the person who sold me my g1, put her own email address into the market software.. it it keeps trying to log inas her
Nov 25 14:49:56 <gfindster_and> hello
Nov 25 14:49:59 <Death_Syn> snadge: yuck
Nov 25 14:50:05 <Death_Syn> sounds like time for reset
Nov 25 14:50:11 <andyross> jbq: probably true for some definition of "someone".  Carriers, as a rule, don't like those "feature" things.
Nov 25 14:50:30 <snadge> correct.. but the first time i switched it on.. it kept coming up with an error "your sim card is not provisioned for data services" or something like that
Nov 25 14:50:47 <Death_Syn> snadge: who is your carrier in .au?
Nov 25 14:50:48 <snadge> so im scared to do a reset on it.. in case i cant figure out how to get around that problem
Nov 25 14:51:01 <snadge> at the moment im in florida, and i have a t-mobile prepaid sim
Nov 25 14:51:06 <jbq> andyross: it's true for some aspects, I won't deny it, but "it isn't implemented" can often be a reasonable explanation as well.
Nov 25 14:51:11 <Death_Syn> ahh
Nov 25 14:51:19 <Death_Syn> i didn't think the g1 worked with prepaid sims
Nov 25 14:51:28 <snadge> she did test it with my aussie optus sim (on roaming) and it worked though
Nov 25 14:51:30 <andyross> snadge: The "factory reset" option wipes the data partition, and with it the gmail account that the phone was registered with.
Nov 25 14:51:35 <Death_Syn> i would love to have an openvpn or ipsec client on my g1
Nov 25 14:51:50 <jbq> snadge: on the setup wizard screen you can bring up the configuration panel to enter your APN data.
Nov 25 14:51:52 <snadge> Death_Syn: its been unlocked apparently
Nov 25 14:52:20 <snadge> she gave me a piece of paper with the unlock code in case i needed it
Nov 25 14:52:55 <pctechnerd> ok back
Nov 25 14:53:07 <Death_Syn> nice
Nov 25 14:53:15 <pctechnerd> by the by, does anyone have a spare grand central invite lying around they'd be willing to trade for something?
Nov 25 14:55:46 <pctechnerd> anyone at all?
Nov 25 14:58:03 <snadge> what is APN data?
Nov 25 14:58:03 <pctechnerd> i'm willing to trade for geek services or electronics ^^
Nov 25 14:58:20 <pctechnerd> APN = the addy that is connected to for data/mms
Nov 25 14:58:35 <pctechnerd> like t-mobile is wap.voicestream.com
Nov 25 14:58:48 <pctechnerd> etc..
Nov 25 14:59:10 <jbq> snadge: yup, it's the setup information for data connections. (actually, I don't know that T-Mobile uses wap.voicestream.com for the G1).
Nov 25 14:59:42 <jbq> snadge: anyway, if you're not comfortable with those, I'd recommend against doing a factor reset of a G1 in which you don't have a T-Mobile SIM.
Nov 25 14:59:54 <pctechnerd> i think for the g1 internet2.voicestream.com is used
Nov 25 15:00:08 <pctechnerd> that's the APN for smartphone data plans, like with blackberry etc..
Nov 25 15:00:32 <pctechnerd> i know that the sidekick has it's own custom apn, but that's because it routes through danger's servers
Nov 25 15:00:46 <jbq> I'm reasonably sure that the G1 uses epc.tmobile.com
Nov 25 15:01:16 <nice_burger> hey gang, how do i go about learning how to get photos from g1 to my ubuntu laptop (usb)?
Nov 25 15:01:27 <andyross> There's a list of about 30 APNs configured by default.  No idea which is what.
Nov 25 15:01:33 <blau> nice: they are stored on the sd card
Nov 25 15:01:44 <andyross> nice_burger: plug the phone in, click "mount", drag files to desktop
Nov 25 15:01:52 <nice_burger> blau: indeed
Nov 25 15:01:55 <pctechnerd> yup, it's epc.tmobile.com  thanks google search ^^
Nov 25 15:02:02 <nice_burger> andyross: where is 'mount' ?
Nov 25 15:02:04 <Death_Syn> nice_burger: plug it in, phone will ask to mount, click mount, ubuntu will say it has a new removable drive available, mount it, drag files about
Nov 25 15:02:12 <Death_Syn> nice_burger: on the phone
Nov 25 15:02:29 <Death_Syn> if you have older firmware, you won't have to click mount
Nov 25 15:02:33 <nice_burger> i plug it in, get 'usb connected' on phone, but no offer to 'mount'
Nov 25 15:02:36 <snadge> where can i check what APN my g1 phone is using?
Nov 25 15:02:44 <snadge> that way if i do a reset.. i can just set it back to that
Nov 25 15:03:00 <pctechnerd> if you're on t-mobile, then it's epc.tmobile.com
Nov 25 15:03:19 <snadge> i wonder if that will work when im back in australia
Nov 25 15:03:22 <nice_burger> ah, i see 'mount' now - had to drop down the notification thingie
Nov 25 15:03:24 <pctechnerd> if you do a hardware reset, it should reset back to epc.tmobile.com
Nov 25 15:03:35 <nice_burger> thanks all :)
Nov 25 15:03:38 <pctechnerd> snadge, that will only work on tmobile's network
Nov 25 15:03:53 <snadge> well when it was first booted up.. the registration wizard kept complaining that data services where not provisioned on the sim.. no matter what sim we tried
Nov 25 15:03:54 <jbq> snadge: in .au with a different SIM you'll probably have to enter the relevant APN data for your operator.
Nov 25 15:04:27 <snadge> but then the lady who actually knew what she was doing .. got it working, but she never told me anything about apns or what to use etc
Nov 25 15:04:30 <nice_burger> hmm. should i first have to go to SD card area in settings and 'unmount'?
Nov 25 15:04:36 <pctechnerd> Snadge: if you were using a T-mobile sim it sounds like you were either using an unprovisioned sim or a defunct one
Nov 25 15:04:55 <pctechnerd> i think it's hard coded into the g1 in the factory settings
Nov 25 15:05:00 <blau>  white g1 :(
Nov 25 15:05:14 <pctechnerd> that's why us with older sims just popped our sims into the phone when we got it and we still connected through the correct apn
Nov 25 15:05:19 <Death_Syn> snadge: he's using a prepaid sim
Nov 25 15:05:23 <nice_burger> ah, no to my own question -done automatically - got it all working now, thanks again
Nov 25 15:05:38 <Death_Syn> er pctechnerd ^^
Nov 25 15:05:47 <andyross> nice_burger: once you select "mount" from the notification dialog (I still hate that google chose that terminology), you should see the device appear automatically as a usb storage device and Ubuntu will mount it for you on the PC
Nov 25 15:05:55 <pctechnerd> ah, prepaid like flexpay or like go phone type?
Nov 25 15:06:34 <nice_burger> andyross: yep it's working now. what would you have called it?
Nov 25 15:06:40 <nice_burger> connect?
Nov 25 15:06:45 <pctechnerd> the only way to use a G1 on a prepay sim is to first put in a working activated standard T-mobile sim, register with your google account, then you can switch it to your prepaid sim
Nov 25 15:07:21 <snadge> i see.. so i wont be able to remove her email address from my phone then.. because there is no standard t-mobile sim in australia
Nov 25 15:07:29 <andyross> Something other than a 1970's Unix term, yeah.  And even for a geek, it's ambiguous: you're mounting the drive on the PC and *un*mounting it from the phone's filesystem.
Nov 25 15:07:32 <pctechnerd> you can't register your G1 using only a prepaid sim as the prepaid sims are configured differently, and don't even allow standard data packages from T-mobile
Nov 25 15:07:46 <pctechnerd> their packages are data restrictive, and you pay for specific limits
Nov 25 15:07:58 <pctechnerd> so they work through a different setup, apn, configuration, etc..
Nov 25 15:08:22 <nice_burger> andyross: yep, i agree then
Nov 25 15:09:05 <snadge> oh well.. i'll just have to wait until a less restrictive android phone is released, and buy that then
Nov 25 15:09:11 <snadge> it seems im going to have little joy with this phone
Nov 25 15:09:21 <pctechnerd> not at aqll snadge
Nov 25 15:09:33 <pctechnerd> just hit up a friend, or even a tmobile store
Nov 25 15:09:52 <pctechnerd> put in their activated sim for a sec, register, then after the phone is on, connect via wifi and put in your prepaid sim
Nov 25 15:09:57 <snadge> in australia? i think not.. :/ i'll just have to leave it activated with this lady's email in it, and not use the market or gmail functionality etc
Nov 25 15:10:03 <pctechnerd> or just switch to a flexpay account
Nov 25 15:10:13 <blau> market and gmail is awesome dude
Nov 25 15:10:18 <blau> you are missing out on so much
Nov 25 15:10:23 <pctechnerd> wait, you're not understanding snadge
Nov 25 15:10:36 <pctechnerd> you only need to ACTIVATE your google account on the t-mobile sim
Nov 25 15:10:52 <pctechnerd> after that, all other functionality is still usable with changing the network settings from inside the phone
Nov 25 15:11:04 <snadge> sure, but i dont have any friends that have a t-mobile sim on a plan.. except for one who lives in the UK
Nov 25 15:11:17 <blau> they dont officially have tmobile down there?
Nov 25 15:11:18 <pctechnerd> you can say, activate it, then put in a ATT sim (if unlocked) and still have the gmail, market, etc..
Nov 25 15:11:26 <blau> goto a store?
Nov 25 15:11:47 <snadge> so if i reset the phone whilst im in australia.. im up the creek without a paddle.. unless i mail the phone to someone in the USA, get them to activate it for me.. and mail it back
Nov 25 15:11:51 <pctechnerd> yea, just borrow a store's sim for a second, they won't mind as long as you don't try to make a run for it
Nov 25 15:11:54 <snadge> t-mobile doesnt exist in australia
Nov 25 15:11:58 <blau> ah
Nov 25 15:12:00 <blau> mail it to me
Nov 25 15:12:05 <blau> ill babysit it :)
Nov 25 15:12:08 <nice_burger> here comes a nice bonehead q - can the SD card be physically removed from the g1?
Nov 25 15:12:11 <Disconnect> there's a way to activate on non-tmob sims but istr it needs root and such
Nov 25 15:12:25 <vol_> nice_burger: yes
Nov 25 15:12:26 <andyross> It's a microSD card.  Yes.
Nov 25 15:12:31 <pctechnerd> nice_burger: yes, but you won't be able to access the files on it while it's not in the phone
Nov 25 15:12:41 <Disconnect> ..don't remember his name, but there was a guy here from the middle east who did it no prob
Nov 25 15:12:42 <vol_> flip up the keyboard, it's right "below" the call key
Nov 25 15:12:50 <snadge> ok i have to go..
Nov 25 15:12:51 <vol_> there's a tab that feels like it shouldn't come off but it does
Nov 25 15:12:55 <snadge> unfortunately not my laptop
Nov 25 15:12:57 <nice_burger> right - i found that, opened it - how to get the card out ?
Nov 25 15:13:06 <pctechnerd> well ima go to bed now.  if anyone wants to politely send me a grand central invite please email it to me at pctechnerd@gmail.com
Nov 25 15:13:13 <vol_> nice_burger: push it in
Nov 25 15:13:14 <pctechnerd> you guys have a great day, i'll be back on after i wake up :)
Nov 25 15:13:15 <vol_> it will pop out
Nov 25 15:13:24 <nice_burger> vol_: thanks
Nov 25 15:13:37 <pctechnerd> g'night
Nov 25 15:13:42 <andyross> Push it in with a pen, it will click out.  Then scrape it with a fingernail or pair of tweezers until it comes out.  And be careful not to snap off the door/cover/flap thing.  Yeah, not the best mechanical design.
Nov 25 15:14:12 <andyross> Basically: buy a 16G card, swap it once, then pretend like it's soldered down. :)
Nov 25 15:15:10 <nice_burger> thanks again - i guess i just wasn't pushing hard enough - it's out, man is this a tiny little thang
Nov 25 15:16:17 <mkitzman> Hey everyone out there in Android land!  I need a bit of assistance with my G1.  I would like to trade it, does anyone have any suggestions of where to go to do this?  I have looked on craigslist but didn't find much.  Any help would be appreciated.
Nov 25 15:17:06 <blau> you want to get rid of it?
Nov 25 15:17:19 <nice_burger> hmm. took card out, put it back in, tried to take a photo. says 'please put a SD card in there'.
Nov 25 15:17:23 <mkitzman> no, I have the Bronze one and want to trade for a black one.
Nov 25 15:17:28 <blau> ah
Nov 25 15:17:36 <blau> good luck :/
Nov 25 15:17:38 <mkitzman> tmo won't allow me to exchange it.
Nov 25 15:17:46 <blau> mkitz: in the us you have 14 days to return it
Nov 25 15:17:52 <blau> and then buy a nother one
Nov 25 15:18:03 <blau> provided you bought from an actual tmobile store
Nov 25 15:18:08 <andyross> Might have to mount (opposite sense: mount from the phone's perspective) it again.  It's in Settings -> SD Card
Nov 25 15:18:09 <vol_> mkitzman: ebay?
Nov 25 15:18:14 <blau> the authorized dealers might have slightly different rules
Nov 25 15:18:44 <nice_burger> andyross: would have thought, but only option there is 'unmount/eject SD card' and it's disabled
Nov 25 15:18:46 <mkitzman> Does eBay do trades?  I am not all that familiar with eBay.
Nov 25 15:18:58 <andyross> Check that it's seated well.  Maybe reboot?
Nov 25 15:19:39 <andyross> Must it be a trade?  Get it unlocked, pay the early termination fee, then sell it.  Seems like you should be able to make $1-200US profit if the existing prices are market.
Nov 25 15:20:15 <mkitzman> Hmm, not in it for the money, I love the phone too much!  But would much rather have the black one than the Bronze
Nov 25 15:20:51 <blau> kitz: how long have you had it
Nov 25 15:20:54 <nice_burger> andyross: answer was : unplug from usb hehe
Nov 25 15:21:25 <mkitzman> about 3 weeks now.
Nov 25 15:21:58 <andyross> nice_burger: Yeah, that.  For dumb technical reasons you can't have the card visible on both the phone and the PC at the same time.
Nov 25 15:23:02 * andyross likes the bronze one, actually.  The contrast with the keyboard backplate is more attractive.  But he just got lucky: it was a pre-order and he selected "brown" (!) on the assumption that demand would be less and it might ship faster.
Nov 25 15:23:16 <nice_burger> ok, got that sorted. next, what's the getting-root-access situation now? can i haz whatever linux apps i want yet?
Nov 25 15:23:27 * andyross would love to meet the now-unemployed marketing employee who thought that "brown" was a good description for a tech product.
Nov 25 15:23:59 <pandzilla> andyross: they're now happily united with their Zune brothers
Nov 25 15:24:37 <Disconnect> andyross: the brown is nice but i hate the kb coloring. basically impossible to see - if the lighting is ok for the white-lit-on-white keys then the super-faint orange symbols fade out :(
Nov 25 15:25:11 <Disconnect> if i'd seen the kb in real life before ordering i'd have gotten black with the (shockingly easy to see) white on black backlighting. (who'd have thought that silver on silver would be hard to see?)
Nov 25 15:25:17 <andyross> nice_burger: the simple answer is "say no to upgrades" until you get it rooted, because the most recent version closes the hole.  There isn't a lot of truly great root stuff available yet unless you're a developer.  Check http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448 for details (most are even correct)
Nov 25 15:25:47 <Disconnect> nice_burger: 'say no' means hacking it, because eventually it updates anyway
Nov 25 15:26:19 <andyross> Not sure what the complaint it there -- the keyboard symbols are translucent and show up fine when backlit.
Nov 25 15:26:34 <mkitzman> Disconnect: I agree with the keyboard, which is why I want to trade it.  The phone is AWESOME otherwise!
Nov 25 15:27:05 <Disconnect> andyross: maybe yours is brighter than mine but mine goes silver on silver in any sort of 'dusk' environment
Nov 25 15:27:24 <nice_burger> Disconnect: ja gathered as much. well i don't want to start missing out on upgrades just yet.
Nov 25 15:27:38 * Disconnect doesn't "miss out" but ok
Nov 25 15:28:28 <andyross> nice_burger: just recognize that once you upgrade to RC30, the hole is closed and you can't go back until/unless someone finds a new exploit.
Nov 25 15:28:37 <bricod1> Is there any way to remove the patented codecs from Android?
Nov 25 15:29:30 <nice_burger> andyross: i'm already showing RC30 under 'build number', so i guess that's a fait accompli hehe
Nov 25 15:29:30 <andyross> bricod1: rebuild your own tree, I guess.  Although I'm not sure what codecs you'd have left.  A patent somewhere covers pretty much everything.
Nov 25 15:30:56 <bricod1> andyross: I've done that and am having problems.
Nov 25 15:31:38 <nice_burger> is there a better way to develop than the setups outlined on andoid dev site? i've tried getting it all set up a few times on ubuntu, but trouble with eclipse/android plugin etc. wonder if there's a completely different route - or better instructions out there
Nov 25 15:32:43 * andyross uses Makefiles and the low-level tools.  Just read through the ant build.xml file for a sample project and you'll see how the pieces fit together.
Nov 25 15:33:53 <nice_burger> andyross: ah, sounds good, thanks
Nov 25 15:33:59 <blau> nice: its easy
Nov 25 15:34:06 <blau> what are you having trouble with
Nov 25 15:34:15 <blau> or do you mean building the actual android source
Nov 25 15:35:06 <bricod1> Building the source fine. BUILD_WITHOUT_PV flag doesn't work to remove codecs as it has unmet dependencies.
Nov 25 15:35:42 <blau> eclipse rules, i dont know why you wouldnt want to use it
Nov 25 15:36:03 <andyross> Ooh, editor flame war.  And one I didn't start.!
Nov 25 15:36:22 <pandzilla> well, at least for Java it does
Nov 25 15:36:40 <blau> yeah and android dev is in java or did i miss something
Nov 25 15:36:42 <nice_burger> blau: oh, i do, i do. i forget what was stopping me. will try again, then beg for help again when i get stuck (now that i found this channel)
Nov 25 15:37:05 <blau> ive setup a build environment on osx, ubuntu, and windows
Nov 25 15:37:09 <blau> no problems
Nov 25 15:37:16 <nice_burger> blau: not building andoid source no. just wanna get a hello world app working
Nov 25 15:37:32 <blau> install eclipse, unzip the android sdk somewhere
Nov 25 15:37:40 <blau> install the android plugins for eclipse
Nov 25 15:37:45 <blau> point them to your sdk dir
Nov 25 15:37:57 <blau> i think thats basically it
Nov 25 15:38:23 <nice_burger> got ganymede, starting it up now to see..
Nov 25 15:39:42 <nice_burger> blau: got the sdk.... plugins plugins...
Nov 25 15:40:06 <blau> the plugins are the "hardest"
Nov 25 15:40:25 <blau> goto help, find and install, enter the right url for the version of eclipse you have
Nov 25 15:40:48 <tric> nice_burger: just make sure you are using sun java on your dev box and not openjdk or something
Nov 25 15:42:14 <nice_burger> yer kidding - software updates is under 'Help' wtf?
Nov 25 15:43:37 <vol_> nice_burger: welcome to eclipse :)
Nov 25 15:44:59 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 25 15:45:11 <nice_burger> i see i previously got android developer tools, including an editor(?)
Nov 25 15:46:22 <nice_burger> sigh, could it be i already installed it all good, and just don't know how to get started? how do it create a new app?
Nov 25 15:46:31 <blau> if the tools are installed
Nov 25 15:46:41 <blau> you goto new->other
Nov 25 15:46:48 <blau> start typing android
Nov 25 15:46:52 <blau> and see if android project pops up
Nov 25 15:47:10 <blau> otherwise goto window->preferences and see if android is in the list
Nov 25 15:48:13 <nice_burger> blau: is this same difference - i went to File/New/Andoid Project  ?
Nov 25 15:48:36 <blau> yeah
Nov 25 15:48:46 <blau> if you have it there great
Nov 25 15:48:59 <blau> i was in a different view that didnt
Nov 25 15:49:35 <nice_burger> blau: so i filled in the project fields with some crap it accepted. then what? just showing the welcome screen with those floating icons still.
Nov 25 15:50:03 <nice_burger> sorry, obviously i've not been patient enough to find out how eclipse works
Nov 25 15:50:16 <blau> close the stupid welcome screen
Nov 25 15:50:19 <unix_infidel> eclipse was a simple setup here.
Nov 25 15:50:22 <blau> and you should get a nice view of stuff
Nov 25 15:51:03 <blau> or goto window menu -> show view -> package explorer
Nov 25 15:51:07 <nice_burger> blau: got it. now i see my new proj plus my earlier attempt 'HelloAndoid'
Nov 25 15:51:24 <nice_burger> is there an emulator?
Nov 25 15:51:27 <blau> yeah
Nov 25 15:51:29 <blau> just run it
Nov 25 15:51:34 <blau> should start automagically
Nov 25 15:52:44 <nice_burger> cool, working
Nov 25 15:53:12 <nice_burger> omg, i hope it doesn't have to go through the long boot everytime i run..
Nov 25 15:53:30 <blau> its realllly lon the first time
Nov 25 15:53:33 <blau> but it speeds up
Nov 25 15:53:40 <blau> and you dont have o restart it everytime you run the app again
Nov 25 15:53:42 <nice_burger> cool
Nov 25 15:53:48 <blau> it handles uninstall/install seemlessly
Nov 25 15:54:54 <blau> gmail doesnt let you make an email with google in it
Nov 25 15:54:54 <nice_burger> blau: do you find you get crashes/freezes? have to kill processes with this setup?
Nov 25 15:55:02 <blau> nope
Nov 25 15:55:12 <blau> do you mean in the emulator
Nov 25 15:55:41 <nice_burger> tried to close emulator while booting , black window, everything hanging
Nov 25 15:56:17 <blau> ive done it with no issues
Nov 25 15:56:22 <nice_burger> you can't have i_love_all_google_products@gmail.com even?
Nov 25 15:56:28 <blau> except in ubuntu
Nov 25 15:56:34 <blau> ubuntu didnt like when i closed it on load
Nov 25 15:56:50 <nice_burger> i promise not to do it again
Nov 25 15:57:16 <nice_burger> funny it gives the process id in the title bar, as if it knows i'll need it...
Nov 25 15:57:40 <blau> i dont think its the process id, or maybe it is
Nov 25 15:57:44 <Disconnect> you will if you have multiple emu's running.
Nov 25 15:57:56 <blau> i thought it was just some unique emu detail
Nov 25 15:57:58 <nice_burger> er, it's a build number perhaps, no such process
Nov 25 15:58:17 <Disconnect> its the emu id. so you can select between them (and devices, etc) when debugging
Nov 25 15:58:29 <blau> if you found my help helpful please email HelpMeGetAGoogJob@gmail.com saying how awesome I am
Nov 25 15:59:36 <nice_burger> blau: thought you said you couldn't create such an email?
Nov 25 15:59:59 <nice_burger> Disconnect: ah thanks
Nov 25 16:00:13 <blau> goog, not google
Nov 25 16:00:46 <nice_burger> ah missed that
Nov 25 16:02:02 <nice_burger> ...and i can't seem to kill the emulator process. hate when that happens, tried kill, killall, other suggestions besides powering off this machine?
Nov 25 16:02:20 <KNY> pkill -9 java ?
Nov 25 16:02:47 <KNY> and `pkill -9 emulator` (or whatever the process is called; I don't remember off the top of my head)
Nov 25 16:02:57 <jbq> nice_burger: on linux?
Nov 25 16:03:02 <nice_burger> ubuntu, yes
Nov 25 16:03:47 <KNY> `sudo shutdown -r now` ;)
Nov 25 16:04:14 <jbq> Yeah, there's a bug in some desktop linux kernels in one of the audio drivers (which causes applications hitting that bug to be stuck in an unkillable state), and the emulator hits that codepath.
Nov 25 16:04:20 <nice_burger> here's the line from ps aux|grep emulator :
Nov 25 16:04:21 <nice_burger> chris    10047  5.7 11.1 166364 100428 ?       Sl   10:52   0:28 /home/chris/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1/tools/emulator -skin HVGA -netspeed full -netdelay none
Nov 25 16:04:45 <nice_burger> jbq: ah.
Nov 25 16:05:06 <jbq> The emulator has options about which audio API to use, and the bug only affects one of the audio APIs (I think that the emulator support 3 different audio APIs under linux).
Nov 25 16:05:09 <nice_burger> KNY: the pkill -9 java is to kill all java processes?
Nov 25 16:05:48 <KNY> well, I think it would just kill one
Nov 25 16:05:55 <KNY> killall -9 java would do all of them
Nov 25 16:06:03 <KNY> including Eclipse, if you've got that going
Nov 25 16:07:06 <nice_burger> KNY: ah i see, hence the 'all'. but don't nece want to kill all that - so if just want to kill the emulator, 'pkill -9 10047'   ?
Nov 25 16:07:14 <KNY> yeah
Nov 25 16:07:54 <nice_burger> KNY: has no effect
Nov 25 16:08:39 <indiabolbol1> hhk
Nov 25 16:08:43 <KNY> `sudo killall -9 emulator`
Nov 25 16:08:44 <KNY> maybe
Nov 25 16:09:25 <nice_burger> ok, what's my password
Nov 25 16:09:31 <nice_burger> kidding - that worked, thanks
Nov 25 16:14:18 <nice_burger> oh man, this is going to be fun, looks like i'm all set up. thanks everyone
Nov 25 16:18:18 <nice_burger> blau: sent that email
Nov 25 16:19:23 <blau1> thanks nice!
Nov 25 16:19:59 <gfindster> hello
Nov 25 16:20:17 <nice_burger> gfindster: hello, ask me anything, i'm the new expert, as of 2 minutes ago
Nov 25 16:20:53 <Disconnect> nice_burger: why does my app work fine in the emu but crash when i try to write to the db on the device?
Nov 25 16:21:12 <blau1> disc: bad db?
Nov 25 16:21:18 <blau1> try uninstalling and reinstalling?
Nov 25 16:21:18 <Disconnect> same db on emu
Nov 25 16:21:22 <Disconnect> literally same file
Nov 25 16:21:34 <nice_burger> Disconnect: no idea - is there a log?
Nov 25 16:21:37 <Disconnect> same perms (well its app_80 on device, app_24 or some such on emu) etc
Nov 25 16:21:49 <nice_burger> how does it crash also
Nov 25 16:22:01 <blau1> disc: are you using databasehelper?
Nov 25 16:22:29 <Disconnect> yep. it says 'sqlexception: 14'
Nov 25 16:22:54 <indiabolbol1> hi
Nov 25 16:24:53 <Disconnect> E/AndroidRuntime(20191): android.database.sqlite.SQLiteException: error code 14
Nov 25 16:24:55 <blau1> you are using databasehelper? probably had some issue with database versions then unable to upgrade?
Nov 25 16:24:57 <Disconnect> its fun :(
Nov 25 16:25:25 <jasta> i used databasehelper too, of course.  Disconnect: have you tried looking at the source to figure out what that error is or where its coming from?
Nov 25 16:25:38 <jasta> i bet you could get a quick resolution that way
Nov 25 16:25:41 <Disconnect> not yet. its E/AndroidRuntime(20191): 	at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteStatement.native_execute(Native Method) so pita
Nov 25 16:25:54 <jasta> that doesnt make it any harder to debug
Nov 25 16:25:57 <blau1> disconnect: go further down the trace until you see your code mentioned
Nov 25 16:26:08 <Disconnect> yah its in any update/insert statement.
Nov 25 16:26:24 <blau1> i bet your update/insert isnt getting run on the emu
Nov 25 16:26:29 <Disconnect> works fine on the emu
Nov 25 16:26:33 <blau1> but is on your device because of the db versions
Nov 25 16:26:42 <Disconnect> nope. it runs 100% fine on the emu
Nov 25 16:27:40 <jasta> it looks like sqlite3_step is failing and returning 13...
Nov 25 16:27:41 <jasta> err 14
Nov 25 16:27:47 <jasta> so lets look at sqlite3 docs
Nov 25 16:28:29 <jasta> #define SQLITE_CANTOPEN    14   /* Unable to open the database file */
Nov 25 16:29:01 <blau1> try rebooting, i get them on the emulator sometimes
Nov 25 16:29:07 <blau1> i usually need to reinstall my app
Nov 25 16:29:07 <Nafai> Does there exist a tool for android to query ldap for contact info?
Nov 25 16:29:12 <blau1> havent seen it on the actual device
Nov 25 16:29:15 <jasta> Disconnect: so code up a simple test to see if you can even open and read from the file
Nov 25 16:29:29 <jasta> running on the device, as the user having the problem
Nov 25 16:29:52 <blau1> i had a weird problem this morning
Nov 25 16:29:59 <blau1> i was using an urlconnection and get old data
Nov 25 16:30:00 <Disconnect> it reads fine, simple cursor displays the summaries, the edit page loads the data..
Nov 25 16:30:07 <blau1> on my device but not the emu
Nov 25 16:30:08 <blau1> weird
Nov 25 16:30:16 <jasta> Disconnect: then where are you getting that error from?
Nov 25 16:30:27 <Disconnect> update or insert
Nov 25 16:30:42 <Disconnect> meeting :/ bbiab
Nov 25 16:30:48 <blau1> disc: can you select?
Nov 25 16:31:06 <jasta> Disconnect: ok, well then see if you can open and write to the file.
Nov 25 16:31:18 <jasta> independent of sqlite3
Nov 25 16:31:29 <jasta> of course you'll clobber it, but who cares
Nov 25 16:31:31 <jasta> you can just put it back again
Nov 25 16:34:14 <dd94300> www.zzzphones.com.....................??????
Nov 25 16:34:58 <indiabolbol1> any developers here
Nov 25 16:35:27 <indiabolbol1> ??
Nov 25 16:35:42 <nice_burger> indiabolbol1: couple hundred looks like
Nov 25 16:35:47 <dd94300> i guess everyone
Nov 25 16:36:25 <indiabolbol1> thats a good
Nov 25 16:40:33 <offby1> not me.
Nov 25 16:49:26 <indiabolbol1> /whois offby1
Nov 25 16:51:06 <PocketIRC> any new news
Nov 25 16:51:32 <indiabolbol1> how many g1 has been sold??
Nov 25 16:52:27 <indiabolbol1> anyone?
Nov 25 16:52:33 <blount> ten billion
Nov 25 16:52:41 <indiabolbol1> you wish
Nov 25 16:52:55 <PocketIRC> -300
Nov 25 16:52:58 <andyross1> Story yesterday said that HTC had upped its estimate for 1 year sales from 600k to 1M units.
Nov 25 16:53:28 <indiabolbol1> i heard a month back it was over million
Nov 25 16:54:26 <andyross> Story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/24/AR2008112402528.html
Nov 25 16:54:26 <andyross> I don't buy that 1M  have already shipped.   The most popular apps in the market are still in the 50-250k range.
Nov 25 16:55:11 <indiabolbol1> thanks for the link...letme check out
Nov 25 16:56:24 <indiabolbol1> the link talks about their plans
Nov 25 16:56:39 <indiabolbol1> not actual sold g1s
Nov 25 16:58:37 <andyross> Right, I have nothing on how many units are actually live other than the vague numbers from the market.
Nov 25 16:59:04 <indiabolbol1> ya i know...
Nov 25 16:59:36 <indiabolbol1> but there is lot of hype about the numbers , I think
Nov 25 17:00:44 <unix_infidel> i think forresters numbers were a bit more accurate.
Nov 25 17:00:48 <andyross> There's always hype about sales numbers.  :)
Nov 25 17:00:55 <unix_infidel> though, those are probably those produced ready for market, not fulfilled orders.
Nov 25 17:01:21 <nice_burger> ok, i've created the next-big-thing, how do i get it onto my phone?
Nov 25 17:02:26 <Bonks> google: install apk files
Nov 25 17:02:43 <indiabolbol1> is the numbers of g1 close to any other competitor
Nov 25 17:02:48 <nice_burger> i'm so there dude, thanks
Nov 25 17:03:08 <blau1> nice: enable developer stuff on your phone
Nov 25 17:03:30 <blau1> and hook it via usb, check that it shows up in the DDMS view in eclipse
Nov 25 17:03:44 <blau1> then you can run it on your phone just like that
Nov 25 17:05:40 <Bonks> i wonder what the next big thing is?? :x
Nov 25 17:06:14 <blau1> i hope its pizza
Nov 25 17:06:44 <nice_burger> blau1: 'enable developer stuff' = settings/application/development/usb debugging?   is there more to it?
Nov 25 17:06:51 <blau1> i think thats it
Nov 25 17:07:24 <nice_burger> does it actually get installed, so i can unplug and still have it work?
Nov 25 17:07:37 <nice_burger> must be
Nov 25 17:07:41 <Bonks> yes
Nov 25 17:08:07 <blau1> yup
Nov 25 17:08:26 <nice_burger> used to have a cat named Bonk - coz it bonked into things of course
Nov 25 17:08:42 <Bonks> bonkers is a bobcat in a cartoon
Nov 25 17:08:47 <blau1> one thing to note, if you install it that way, its signed with the default key
Nov 25 17:09:03 <blau1> which means you have to uninstall it to install it with a real key
Nov 25 17:09:12 <nice_burger> k, just for testing now
Nov 25 17:09:21 <blau1> so if you plan on publishing it to the market you need to create your own key and sign it with that
Nov 25 17:09:33 <Bonks> i must say, the G1 Central app is the big thing for me right now
Nov 25 17:09:38 <nice_burger> ok, super
Nov 25 17:10:58 <blau1> yeah bravo to the g1 central guy
Nov 25 17:11:08 <blau1> now give us access to our voicemails and he can have a hug
Nov 25 17:15:02 <dd94300> I/DEBUG   (  278): debuggerd committing suicide to free the zombie!
Nov 25 17:17:08 <blau1> ne1 use gizmo5?
Nov 25 17:17:51 * jbq is afraid of free zombies
Nov 25 17:18:51 <unix_infidel> omg free zom pies?
Nov 25 17:18:53 <nice_burger> blau1: i see it in DDMS, what're the steps though to see it on phone? have to close emulator first? if it's in DDMS perspective, does that mean it's already loaded on phone?
Nov 25 17:18:53 <unix_infidel> zing!
Nov 25 17:19:47 <dd94300> does anybody know how to connect micro phone to emulator............i am getting dead zombies
Nov 25 17:21:06 <nice_burger> oh cripe, i'll be late for the psychiatryst, must run, thanks again all
Nov 25 17:21:41 <blau1> burger: ask me again when you get back
Nov 25 17:27:06 <unix_infidel> does google docs not have a mobile pdf viewer?
Nov 25 17:27:40 <jasta> when the native sdk is released, someone will probably just port xpdf
Nov 25 17:27:52 <jasta> (the engine is very portable)
Nov 25 17:28:01 <Nafai> w00t
Nov 25 17:28:07 <Nafai> Just ordered my phone
Nov 25 17:28:12 <unix_infidel> jasta: native SDK?
Nov 25 17:28:28 <jasta> unix_infidel: google is working on a native SDK, to officially support writing C/C++ to support Java
Nov 25 17:28:52 <unix_infidel> jasta: where is this on the Roadmap?
Nov 25 17:28:52 <jasta> it's not such a stretch really.  that approach is obviously being used on the phone already
Nov 25 17:29:10 <jasta> it's not officially
Nov 25 17:29:22 <jasta> but it has been confirmed by numerous google employees
Nov 25 17:29:42 <andyross> You can do native development right now.  It's not hard.  It's just that the APIs might change on future phones (or updates, maybe).
Nov 25 17:30:13 <jbq> There's an interesting dilemma about that: on the one hand, we're not ready to officially support native code fully end-to-end, on the other hand, apps will be less likely to break if we can give some clear guidelines about  what's likely to not change much and what's likely to change a lot.
Nov 25 17:30:23 <andyross> But if what you're doing is, say, writing to an already-standardized native API (unix stuff, sockets, bluez, OpenGL, etc...) you're safe regardless.
Nov 25 17:31:19 <jbq> andyross: ...as long as the CPU in the device can execute the instruction set you compiled for...
Nov 25 17:31:38 <andyross> Yeah, indeed.  It's not free.  But it's not brain surgery either.
Nov 25 17:31:50 <jbq> yeah.
Nov 25 17:31:53 <vol_> yeah, that's what we're counting on for our product
Nov 25 17:31:58 <jasta> it matters a great deal to have official support in the product, though.
Nov 25 17:32:14 <jasta> i wouldn't waste my time building an app that depends on something google won't guarantee
Nov 25 17:33:20 <jbq> I think that for now we're unlikely to have very hard guarantees. I expect something along the lines of "if you follow those guidelines, things are a lot less likely to break in the future".
Nov 25 17:33:24 <vol_> Sigh. Having trouble getting this stupid emulator to play sound for me...
Nov 25 17:33:29 <vol_> :E
Nov 25 17:33:34 <andyross> On the flip side, folks doing native work now have a huge first-mover advantage over the people waiting on an SDK.  Which choice is right depends a lot on the app, I suspect.  I notice that the neocore 3D demo is native code (no doubt a port of an existing Brew application), while Opera went with an all-java solution.
Nov 25 17:34:11 <vol_> Opera probably had a java solution more or less sitting around though, I suspect
Nov 25 17:34:22 <vol_> the hardest part was probably hooking it up with android
Nov 25 17:35:43 <andyross> A good example of why root-on-the-phone is important for developers, btw: the ability to see how other people's apps are put together :)
Nov 25 17:35:48 <Nafai> andyross: So you can do native code on the android?
Nov 25 17:35:49 <blau1> lol
Nov 25 17:36:00 <Disconnect> ok i feel dumb now. i just fixed it. adb created 'databases' as root:root with no world-writable perms. so the app could write to the file but not to the dir.
Nov 25 17:36:02 <Disconnect> so .. no writes.
Nov 25 17:36:09 <Disconnect> what a total pita
Nov 25 17:36:24 <vol_> Nafai: You can do it, it's just not "officiall supported"
Nov 25 17:36:26 <blau1> disc: you created the db non programatically?
Nov 25 17:36:28 <vol_> oficcially
Nov 25 17:36:59 <andyross> This wiki link came up in the channel a while back, and it's a good whirlwind overview: http://android.jim.sh/index.php/Cross_Compilation
Nov 25 17:37:39 <Disconnect> blau1: created it in the app, sucked it down with adb and repopulated it, then replaced it. emu that worked, but on the device adb push changed ownership of the databases directory :(
Nov 25 17:37:44 <blau1> andy: like what do you mean?
Nov 25 17:38:01 <andyross> What do I mean about what?
Nov 25 17:38:02 <blau1> disc: why not just populate it while on the device?
Nov 25 17:38:16 <blau1> andy: about seeing how other apps are put together
Nov 25 17:39:02 <andyross> Without root, you can't look at the /proc/.../maps file of a process to see that it has native libraries linked in.  Nor can you see the .apk files, etc...
Nov 25 17:40:06 <blau1> i think you can get apk files off the device
Nov 25 17:40:17 <blau1> i could be wrong tho
Nov 25 17:40:48 <blau1> oh wtf
Nov 25 17:40:55 <blau1> i cant get into the data dir anymore :/
Nov 25 17:41:22 <blau1> arent the installed apps stored in /data?
Nov 25 17:41:55 <jbq> yes, installed apps are in /data.
Nov 25 17:42:08 <blau1> and their databases too right?
Nov 25 17:42:30 <blau1> for some reason im getting opendir failed, permission denied in /data
Nov 25 17:42:35 <blau1> when i do an ls
Nov 25 17:42:38 <blau1> i swear it worked before
Nov 25 17:43:45 <blau1> hmm i can get to data in the emulator
Nov 25 17:43:52 <blau1> maybe i never actually did it on my phone?
Nov 25 17:44:15 <blau1> any ideas, am i going crazy
Nov 25 17:44:53 <Disconnect> blau1: ls only works as root.
Nov 25 17:44:57 <Disconnect> blau1:  cd /data/data
Nov 25 17:45:11 <blau1> disc, so we have root in the emulator?
Nov 25 17:45:27 <Disconnect> yep
Nov 25 17:45:55 <blau1> oh, i guess inever did this on the actual device, lol
Nov 25 17:46:11 <blau1> this is annoying, how can i get at a database thats on my g1
Nov 25 17:46:53 <Disconnect> cd /data/data
Nov 25 17:46:54 <Disconnect> ls
Nov 25 17:47:39 <blau1> im getting the same thing
Nov 25 17:48:38 <jasta> blau1: on the g1 you can use adb pull
Nov 25 17:48:51 <blau1> i cant just connect to the database with sqlite3?
Nov 25 17:49:29 <blau1> i give up
Nov 25 17:49:33 <blau1> g1 is useless without root
Nov 25 17:50:18 <jbq> I think that in the future we want to make the files that belong to debuggable apps visible to adb.
Nov 25 17:50:31 <blau1> i like it
Nov 25 17:50:59 <jbq> It just takes a bit more work on the permissions that we were comfortable putting in 1.0.
Nov 25 17:51:47 <andyross> But, but... I thought the G1 and the Android platform were different things, and the platform was open and all... :)
Nov 25 17:52:44 <jbq> "open platform" doesn't mean "no restrictions on which code can do what".
Nov 25 17:52:52 <jbq> ;-)
Nov 25 17:53:12 <Disconnect> blau1: cd /data/data ; ls works for me as user
Nov 25 17:53:27 <blau1> on your g1?
Nov 25 17:53:30 <jbq> anyway, that part of the G1 comes straight from Android, and any restriction that exists there is an Android restriction.
Nov 25 17:53:40 <Disconnect> yep
Nov 25 17:53:44 <jbq> (well, I'd rather say "limitation" than "restriction")
Nov 25 17:53:59 <blau1> rc30?
Nov 25 17:54:00 <Disconnect> lemme triple-check (adb shell is root)
Nov 25 17:54:03 <romainguy__> we should have a pot
Nov 25 17:54:12 <andyross> I know.  I'm just needling you (semi-seriously, despite the smiley) about the "android is open, the G1 is not" dodge.  Clearly you guys did make affirmative decisions about your security model, and those decisions have consequences you can't dodge your way around.  Meh.  Not a flame war that hasn't been had a thousand times already.
Nov 25 17:54:55 <jbq> andyross: yes, we definitely need to engineer the platform a bit more for situations like the one that blau1 is running into.
Nov 25 17:55:11 <Disconnect> blau1: yah but my bad, data/data is not accessible to shell user.
Nov 25 17:55:32 <romainguy__> jbq: the easiest would be to have dev devices
Nov 25 17:55:34 <eldenz> if anyone is interested, i wrote a serverside php app to parse opera bookmarks (opera6.adr)  and display a mobile suitable interface to search (w/ or w/o ajax)..
Nov 25 17:55:53 <eldenz> all you need is a php5 capable server with mysql (sqlite possible as well but not tested)
Nov 25 17:56:48 <blau1> i think im working on an app ot sync google bookmarks with your g1
Nov 25 17:56:59 <jbq> romainguy__: sure, sure, but there are always going to be devices that are about as non-open as the G1, and having the right facilities in production builds for developers to be able to debug on such devices will still be necessary.
Nov 25 17:57:15 <romainguy__> I agree
Nov 25 17:57:20 <romainguy__> that's why I said the "easiest"
Nov 25 17:57:42 <romainguy__> but I have to admit that when I write apps, I seldom need more control for debugging
Nov 25 17:57:57 <romainguy__> the only thing I wish I had is what blau1 is asking for: access to your sqlite3 db
Nov 25 17:58:05 <Disconnect> romainguy_: anyone who uses sqlite will occasionally want to pull the db to examine it, or .. ok you are already there :)
Nov 25 18:00:08 <blau1> romain: i do have access in the emulator
Nov 25 18:00:11 <blau1> just not the g1
Nov 25 18:00:43 <romainguy__> I know :)
Nov 25 18:00:50 <blau1> ok just making sure
Nov 25 18:00:56 <Disconnect> (and to answer an earlier question, i preloaded the data for my app because i have several hundred records ready to go and i needed to find out if it was gonna bomb out or not. the answer was not :) except the perms problem)
Nov 25 18:01:34 <blau1> disc: one of my apps has several thousand records in a list view from a db and its silky smooth!
Nov 25 18:02:02 <romainguy__> blau1: ListView doesn't care whether you have 20 or 20 billion records :)
Nov 25 18:02:12 <romainguy__> (except you can't have 20 billion because of the size of an int :))
Nov 25 18:02:26 <blau1> i know, i was concerned there would be some other issue though
Nov 25 18:02:35 <xsdg> romainguy__: clearly we need 64-bit ints
Nov 25 18:02:36 <blau1> some magical issue
Nov 25 18:02:50 <romainguy__> xsdg: it's called a long
Nov 25 18:02:56 <blau1> listview doesnt use longs?
Nov 25 18:02:58 <romainguy__> but I'm sure the G1 would not like this :)
Nov 25 18:03:19 <xsdg> romainguy__: :o)
Nov 25 18:03:32 <romainguy__> blau1: no, it's a very reasonable tradeoff
Nov 25 18:03:42 <romainguy__> I'm more concerned about SGL using shorts
Nov 25 18:03:53 <romainguy__> (today you can easily make a UI that blows up SGL)
Nov 25 18:04:20 <xsdg> romainguy__: btw, what are 64-bit variables in Java?  In C, there's (long long), or (uint64_t).  I don't think there's a type in C++ that's _guaranteed_ to be 64 bits.  Is there one in Java?
Nov 25 18:04:28 <romainguy__> yes
Nov 25 18:04:29 <romainguy__> long
Nov 25 18:04:29 <jasta> xsdg: in Java, they are long.
Nov 25 18:04:33 <xsdg> aah, weird
Nov 25 18:04:39 <romainguy__> how is that weird? :)
Nov 25 18:04:49 <jasta> Java's primitives have a defined size, unlike C/C++.
Nov 25 18:04:57 <romainguy__> which is nice
Nov 25 18:05:01 <jasta> And long happens to be defined as 64-bit, int as 32-bit.
Nov 25 18:05:18 <blount> if you have 2+ billion items in your listview, I'd say usability problems will bite you long before coding problems do... :-)
Nov 25 18:05:23 <xsdg> ::nod::
Nov 25 18:05:28 <jasta> romainguy__: agreed, however C also has primitives of defined sizes now.
Nov 25 18:05:29 <romainguy__> blount: quite so :))
Nov 25 18:05:49 <blau1> not really
Nov 25 18:05:55 <blau1> what if you have a nice way to search them
Nov 25 18:05:58 <jasta> romainguy__: the latest C standard offers u/int32_t, u/int64_t, etc.
Nov 25 18:06:10 <blau1> i still feel that for familiarity, you should show all 2 billion items there
Nov 25 18:06:50 <xsdg> blau1: fortunately, each entry is only a nibble, so it all fits in memory ;o)
Nov 25 18:07:07 * blau1 gets to work on the 2 billion item listview project!
Nov 25 18:07:34 <blau1> now to find useful data thats 2 billion entries and will fit on the g1
Nov 25 18:07:37 <blount> why have a contact list, when you can have The Contact List
Nov 25 18:07:39 <xsdg> sort of reminds me of the billenium party we had here a few years back
Nov 25 18:07:57 <romainguy__> reminds me I have another optimization for ListView
Nov 25 18:08:04 <romainguy__> I should get on that one
Nov 25 18:08:10 <xsdg> blau1: numbers from 1 to 2-billion should fit, and is easy to encode ;o)
Nov 25 18:08:46 <xsdg> spearce: bah; the joke doesn't work with this nick :o)
Nov 25 18:08:57 <spearce> nope.
Nov 25 18:09:02 <jasta> i have found that performing sqlite3 queries on the order of a hundred thousand records or so takes quite a long time
Nov 25 18:09:10 <jasta> just fyi :)
Nov 25 18:09:17 <blau1> damn
Nov 25 18:09:19 <jasta> several seconds, at least
Nov 25 18:09:31 <jasta> even if you have no criteria, just select * from foo
Nov 25 18:09:32 <romainguy__> I'm surprised you even need hundred thousands to reach that conclusion ^^
Nov 25 18:09:53 <jasta> romainguy__: i did, actually.  it didnt start becoming noticable until about 10k
Nov 25 18:09:56 <romainguy__> just doing a query that returns a few thousands is slow
Nov 25 18:10:02 <Disconnect> on the defined-size-primitives.. remember that java is a virtual machine. so it only makes sense - c primitives are mapped to the underlying hardware..
Nov 25 18:10:13 <romainguy__> if you have an address book with 6,000 contacts for instance you'll definitely notice
Nov 25 18:10:22 <jasta> romainguy__: well, my queries were not meaningful, it had no where clause
Nov 25 18:10:29 <jasta> and it was not fragmented
Nov 25 18:10:36 <jasta> so sqlite hardly had any work to do
Nov 25 18:10:45 <romainguy__> I'm also talking about such a query
Nov 25 18:12:49 <jasta> romainguy__: scrolling is remarkably fast even on such a set though
Nov 25 18:12:59 <jasta> probably because the windowed cursor implementation is so tidy
Nov 25 18:13:01 <romainguy__> glad to hear that
Nov 25 18:13:14 <romainguy__> yes, the window fill helps a lot
Nov 25 18:13:27 <romainguy__> it's also what takes a lot of time when you query tons of records
Nov 25 18:13:29 <jasta> romainguy__: did i tell you i got my code working to replace a database on the fly?
Nov 25 18:13:40 <languish> did something change with the Market?  When I go to all apps, by date, it only shows me the 1st screen/group of apps.. I used to be able to scroll down, and it'd load the older apps..
Nov 25 18:13:58 <romainguy__> jasta: Yes I saw that, I'd be interested in reading it, I'm sure it's something I could use in a project
Nov 25 18:14:10 <romainguy__> languish: it still does that
Nov 25 18:14:15 <romainguy__> at least yesterday night it was
Nov 25 18:14:23 <jasta> romainguy__: the strategy i use is to track the cursors and hold the uncompiled sql query
Nov 25 18:14:31 <jasta> and add two methods notifyDatabaseInvalidated and notifyDatabaseChanged
Nov 25 18:14:32 <languish> romainguy_, yeah it was doing it for me lastnight too. now it's not
Nov 25 18:14:38 <Bonks> languish: im getting that too
Nov 25 18:14:44 <Bonks> just checked now
Nov 25 18:14:51 <languish> damn, this is annoying
Nov 25 18:14:59 <jasta> which kind of fudges around the cursor dataset/content observers.  notifyDatabaseChanged sends the new database handle which triggers a new cursor to be generated by the wrapper
Nov 25 18:15:06 <romainguy__> ah indeed
Nov 25 18:15:07 <jasta> but it works generally, and tahts the important part.
Nov 25 18:15:18 <jasta> so any open cursors will get requeried properly
Nov 25 18:15:21 <languish> Bonks, thanks
Nov 25 18:15:39 <romainguy__> languish: same thing here
Nov 25 18:16:07 <jasta> romainguy__: http://code.google.com/p/android-random/source/browse/trunk/SqliteInjectionTest/src/org/devtcg/demo/sqliteinjection/Provider.java
Nov 25 18:16:16 <jasta> the important part is ReplaceDbThread and MyCursorWrapper
Nov 25 18:16:22 <romainguy__> thanks
Nov 25 18:16:36 <languish> good thing I remembered what the app I wanted was named, so I could search for it
Nov 25 18:16:44 <jasta> gah, formatting is kind of screwed up.  one sec, fixing :)
Nov 25 18:17:01 <languish> would if I hadn't, it would have fit under multiple categories, and been very annoying to look for
Nov 25 18:17:23 <romainguy__> languish: looks like a server-side issue
Nov 25 18:17:33 <languish> nod
Nov 25 18:17:34 <romainguy__> so... be patient :))
Nov 25 18:17:54 <languish> I'm jsut hoping it's not a "functional improvement" :)
Nov 25 18:18:00 <romainguy__> jasta: that's cool
Nov 25 18:19:55 <jasta> romainguy__: drives me bonkers that eclipse randomly mixes spaces and tabs when i use the copy and paste functionality.
Nov 25 18:19:58 <Nafai> So which contacts are synced from Gmail to the android phone?  All of them?  Or just "my contacts?"  I don't want suggested contacts on my phone
Nov 25 18:20:55 <languish> m.grandcentral.com for mobile web, works nicely
Nov 25 18:21:40 <languish> Nafai, it did not sync suggested contacts for me. You can also delete suggested contacts from your account via the web.
Nov 25 18:22:05 <jasta> romainguy__: anyway, there are two gotchas that could be fixed: one, all open cursors are immediately requeried when the database changes, and not on demand.  two, i use a busy latch to stop any database operations while replacing the db, but my critical section is longer than it needs to be.  it could be tightened up to only block access between lines 465 and 478.
Nov 25 18:22:27 <KNY> languish, just a plug for my app: find "G1 Central" under Communications :)
Nov 25 18:22:32 <eggy> aaa
Nov 25 18:22:51 <jasta> romainguy__: instead the whole ReplaceDbThread is holding the resource.  not a huge issue in practice, though.
Nov 25 18:23:00 <languish> KNY, that's what I was looking for and downloaded :)  But having looked at it I'm not quite sure what its functionality is?
Nov 25 18:23:05 <Nafai> languish: Thanks.  I just ordered my G1 and wanted to get things ready when it gets here :)
Nov 25 18:23:11 <languish> Nafai :)
Nov 25 18:23:15 <KNY> languish, you can make calls using your GC number
Nov 25 18:23:36 <Bonks> KNY: can you? i never found an option
Nov 25 18:23:38 <languish> KNY, that's what I was thinking. I never bothered to make calls with GC, just receive.
Nov 25 18:23:52 <KNY> languish, same (because I couldn't with my old phones)
Nov 25 18:23:58 <KNY> Bonks, get "G1 Central" from Market
Nov 25 18:24:01 <Bonks> ohhh ok nvm. i thought you meant by calling your GC # then making an outgoing call
Nov 25 18:24:07 <KNY> nah, I wish
Nov 25 18:24:12 <Bonks> KNY: yes i use it its awesome
Nov 25 18:24:18 <KNY> :)
Nov 25 18:24:26 <languish> KNY, btw.. I left a note on the grandcentral blog to Craig.. about your app
Nov 25 18:24:44 <Bonks> which app did you write KNY?
Nov 25 18:24:49 <KNY> I wonder if I'm going to get in trouble for that. I bet it's against their ToS
Nov 25 18:24:52 <languish> I suggest maybe you do the same, with more info than I put... :)
Nov 25 18:25:08 <KNY> it just automates the HTTP requests to m.grandcentral.com
Nov 25 18:25:12 <rubyonlinux> so, grandcentral sounds just like skypeout style to your cell, except it always comes from the same phone # so you can add it to favs?
Nov 25 18:26:01 <languish> KNY, do they charge currently for outgoing calls on the GC #?
Nov 25 18:26:07 <KNY> rubyonlinux, there are a lot of cool features like multiple phones and call recording and ListenIn and mp3 voicemail, etc
Nov 25 18:26:23 <KNY> languish, does GC? I don't think so since they're still in beta
Nov 25 18:26:38 <KNY> as I recall, you have a balance but it magically refills when it gets empty
Nov 25 18:26:48 <rubyonlinux> KNY the main feature i need is bypassing minutes usage ..
Nov 25 18:27:06 <languish> I know they granted a limited number of minutes/credits, we were supposed to refill at some point, but I never bothered to use it
Nov 25 18:27:13 <languish> for outgoing only
Nov 25 18:27:56 <Bonks> ooh nice i didnt know there was a mobile GC (with voicemails!)
Nov 25 18:27:59 <languish> yeah, I guess that's the next question, is this data or minutes usage
Nov 25 18:28:22 <Bonks> its minutes ... because your GC # calls your phone
Nov 25 18:28:26 <raidfive> is it possible to get the current location without setting up listeners?
Nov 25 18:28:45 <languish> Bonks, ahh, nod
Nov 25 18:28:51 <languish> I'll play with it more tonight
Nov 25 18:29:09 <rubyonlinux> i didn't sign up for fave 5, but .. combine GC with fave five sounds like unlimited calling .. unless im missing something
Nov 25 18:29:13 <KNY> languish, I think they're removing comments left on their blog
Nov 25 18:29:18 <languish> KNY, does any of the G! central info go through your own server? Do you get access to user data in any way?
Nov 25 18:29:20 <KNY> rubyonlinux, that's exactly what it is :)
Nov 25 18:29:28 <KNY> languish, zero.
Nov 25 18:29:37 <KNY> http://svn.evancharlton.com/wsvn/g1central
Nov 25 18:30:01 <languish> KNY, I think you're right about them removing comments. It was there earlier
Nov 25 18:30:14 <languish> nod, thanks.
Nov 25 18:30:18 <Disconnect> rubyonlinux: what you are missing is that tmob will detect it pretty quick and then bill you overage-minute-rates for the calls...
Nov 25 18:30:18 <KNY> languish, yeah, my comment from a week ago disappeared too
Nov 25 18:30:28 <KNY> languish, this is the relevant class: http://svn.evancharlton.com/wsvn/G1Central/trunk/src/com/evancharlton/g1central/communication/GCCommunicator.java
Nov 25 18:30:37 <languish> nod
Nov 25 18:31:07 <languish> I hope they work with you, and look forward to seeing if something even better comes of it
Nov 25 18:31:30 <KNY> hell, I hope they just write their own so I can stop getting invitation requests ;-)
Nov 25 18:31:35 <languish> haha
Nov 25 18:33:15 <rubyonlinux> Disconnect: you think?  If GC calls from the same number then how would that violate tmobile agreement?  except for of course, blocking all GC numbers ..
Nov 25 18:33:47 <languish> they'll end up updating their ToS
Nov 25 18:33:51 <languish> if they haven't already
Nov 25 18:33:56 <Disconnect> rubyonlinux: its in the tos already.
Nov 25 18:34:06 <rubyonlinux> oh wow, good to know
Nov 25 18:34:07 <KNY> but how could they detect it? GC numbers are no different than any other
Nov 25 18:34:08 * Disconnect does think he's the only one who ever reads anything before signing or clicking
Nov 25 18:34:18 <rubyonlinux> funny that google bought them .. im sure tmobile wasn't too happy about that
Nov 25 18:34:53 <languish> t-mobile has zero customer loyalty. Who cares what they're happy about.
Nov 25 18:35:02 <KNY> it's funny up until you realized that ever since they bought them, basically nothing has happened with GC
Nov 25 18:35:14 <languish> they use us, we use them. customers tend to care more than tmo execs do.
Nov 25 18:35:52 <languish> KNY, I'm perfectly happy with GC staying *exactly* as it is, forever.
Nov 25 18:36:01 <languish> alas...
Nov 25 18:36:04 <languish> :/
Nov 25 18:36:06 <KNY> languish, I'd like it to be out of beta
Nov 25 18:36:11 <KNY> and get my invitations back
Nov 25 18:36:14 <KNY> :)
Nov 25 18:36:19 <languish> people can still sign up..
Nov 25 18:36:33 <languish> they don't need invitations
Nov 25 18:36:34 <KNY> do they give out new accounts?
Nov 25 18:36:36 <languish> yes
Nov 25 18:36:40 <KNY> interesting
Nov 25 18:36:42 <languish> click reserve a number
Nov 25 18:36:48 <languish> wait a bit
Nov 25 18:36:52 <languish> get an email..
Nov 25 18:36:54 <languish> *shrug*
Nov 25 18:37:45 <KNY> I should try just calling craig; don't they give you the numbers when you sign up?
Nov 25 18:37:48 <languish> they also have the "tell a friend" button.. when you're logged in
Nov 25 18:38:09 <languish> yes, you pick your number when you sign up
Nov 25 18:38:18 <languish> I don't know how long it takes for it to be approved
Nov 25 18:38:37 <KNY> no I meant don't they give you craig as a contact?
Nov 25 18:38:37 <tethridge> is there charges for your phone?
Nov 25 18:38:45 <tethridge> don't you have to forward all of your numbers to them?
Nov 25 18:38:49 <languish> KNY, I signed up long ago, I don't remember
Nov 25 18:39:03 <tethridge> Sprint charges 20 cent a minute when forwarding calls.
Nov 25 18:39:07 <languish> if they did, I removed him
Nov 25 18:39:07 <languish> lol
Nov 25 18:39:18 <tethridge> I just checked out youmail.com last night and that's what they said
Nov 25 18:39:41 <languish> tethridge, some people assign it as their fave five #
Nov 25 18:39:45 <languish> so no
Nov 25 18:39:57 <languish> I don't use fave five
Nov 25 18:39:59 <tethridge> that works, if you have tmo
Nov 25 18:40:00 <languish> so *shrug*
Nov 25 18:40:11 <tethridge> I have Sprint, at least until Feb
Nov 25 18:40:19 <languish> no idea how/if it'd work for sprint
Nov 25 18:40:27 <languish> I hate Sprint as a company.
Nov 25 18:40:45 <tethridge> Sprint's stupid CEO pisses me off everytime I see him in one of their commercials.
Nov 25 18:41:09 <languish> Their lack of caring about massive repetative billing errors, pisses me off.
Nov 25 18:41:38 <languish> Which is why I moved everyone I had influence with, off them.
Nov 25 18:41:43 <languish> years ago.
Nov 25 18:42:01 <languish> and will *never* go back, so long as any member of their executive board remains
Nov 25 18:44:20 <jasta> we use Sprint for our business account at work ;)
Nov 25 18:44:43 <jasta> much cheaper than everyone else :)
Nov 25 18:45:48 <languish> We used them for multiple accounts.. and were getting frequent billing errors in the $1000's of $.
Nov 25 18:46:14 <languish> Insane obvious errors that were impossible for anyone with service to have charged up in any way
Nov 25 18:46:39 <languish> and they just told us they knew it was an error but there was nothing they could do about it, and billing still came after us to pay.. disconnecting lines..etc
Nov 25 18:46:50 <languish> and that went on with different lines, every few months
Nov 25 18:46:55 <languish> and we weren't alone..
Nov 25 18:47:48 <languish> then when we cancelled the contracts, we ended up having to get a judge to tell them to fuck off
Nov 25 18:47:55 <jasta> this is twice now you've mentioned a major issue dealing with some large corporation
Nov 25 18:48:03 <eldenz> is there a way to make screenshots with adb?
Nov 25 18:48:09 <languish> Yes, because I don't take bullshit.
Nov 25 18:48:16 <jasta> are you sure that it's not just your inability to communicate with them that's the problem?
Nov 25 18:48:24 <romainguy__> eldenz: you can  use DDMS or the tool called screenshot2
Nov 25 18:48:28 <languish> I don't accept consistent problems as "business as usual"
Nov 25 18:48:29 <eldenz> thanks romainguy__
Nov 25 18:48:35 <jasta> for instance, have you tried escalating your issue "up the chain"?
Nov 25 18:49:51 <jasta> or did you just spend hours and hours talking to do-nothing customer service people?
Nov 25 18:50:39 <jasta> and, for instance, did you involve the better business bureau?  they have a way of getting things done with large businesses.
Nov 25 18:51:04 <languish> jasta, we were dealing with executives by the time we were going to court. They KNEW it was a problem, admitted it, even in court, and stated their policies were such and such and when they were able to fix the accounting errors they would be happy to accomodate us.  In the mean time, they were turning off service for non payment, and were reporting our business and individual lines to credit reporting agencies.
Nov 25 18:51:36 <jasta> well you do have to pay them until the matter is sorted out.  everyone knows that.
Nov 25 18:52:06 <jasta> it's like when stupid renters think they don't owe their landlords rent until they fix the sink or whatever.  that's not true :)
Nov 25 18:52:06 <languish> we were paying.. what our monthly service fees were, not the thousands of dollars that were erroniously showing up on the bill randomly
Nov 25 18:52:31 <jasta> well you do have to pay that stuff as well, of course.  then you could just sue them for interest later.
Nov 25 18:52:40 <jasta> pretty straight forward thing to do actually
Nov 25 18:52:59 <languish> jasta, landlords with a rental fee of say, $1500/mo, don't suddenly bill a tenant for $50,000 in one month, when the accounts are not in arrears.
Nov 25 18:53:18 <languish> and then say "oh we have a billing problem, we know.. just pay the $50,000 and we'll see what we can do"
Nov 25 18:53:25 <jasta> well so you say you took them to court, yeah?
Nov 25 18:53:29 <jasta> what happened there?
Nov 25 18:53:58 <vol_> Heh.
Nov 25 18:54:00 <languish> binding arbitration and they were told to stop all collections efforts on us and to clear our accounts.
Nov 25 18:54:08 <vol_> 1393 *((char*)0xdeadd00d) = 38
Nov 25 18:54:13 <vol_> in dalvik/vm/Init.c
Nov 25 18:54:20 <vol_> oops :D
Nov 25 18:54:49 <jasta> languish: and what about the credit impact?  did you get that taken care of?
Nov 25 18:55:29 <jasta> could have probalby sued them and gotten legal fees paid for that too
Nov 25 18:55:30 <languish> jasta, yes.. we were dealing directly with 2 of the big 3 reporting agencies from the get go.
Nov 25 18:55:38 <languish> So we didn't have any real major impact from it
Nov 25 18:55:54 <jasta> well good, i'm glad to hear you actually handled it :)
Nov 25 18:57:03 * languish refrains from making a personal attack
Nov 25 18:57:05 <languish> :|
Nov 25 18:57:14 <vol_> 13:50 < jasta> and, for instance, did you involve the better business bureau?  they have a way of getting things done with large businesses.
Nov 25 18:57:15 <jasta> why would you personally attack me?
Nov 25 18:57:22 <vol_> You DO realize the BBB is funded by these companies
Nov 25 18:57:27 <vol_> and usually ends up defending them
Nov 25 18:57:32 <vol_> they're pretty much just a PR agency
Nov 25 18:57:35 <jasta> vol_: not in my experience.
Nov 25 18:57:39 <languish> jasta, let's just say I find you to be a supercilioous ***
Nov 25 18:57:45 <languish> *supercilious
Nov 25 18:57:49 <jasta> vol_: the BBB had comcast award me an entire free year of service once.
Nov 25 18:57:55 <jasta> that was pretty sweet
Nov 25 18:58:01 <KNY> the BBB is a crock
Nov 25 18:58:06 <vol_> jasta: Ah yes, that's such a punishment
Nov 25 18:58:11 <vol_> they've kept you as a customer
Nov 25 18:58:13 <languish> the BBB is a 50/50 shot
Nov 25 18:58:19 <jasta> and most recently got a $2000 bill from the UW Medical Center revoked.
Nov 25 18:58:26 <KNY> I'd say it's more like 95/5
Nov 25 18:58:32 <languish> But over all, the BBB is for the business, not the consumer.
Nov 25 18:58:53 <languish> They want those fees they exact from the corps to be "members"
Nov 25 18:58:57 <dd94300> a quick eclipse question.....................i can see the device using DDMS in shell but not in the DDMS view in eclipse? why?
Nov 25 18:58:58 <jasta> my experience has been quite the opposite.  but i'd say that in general with dealing with large corporations.
Nov 25 18:59:06 <vol_> http://www.screaming-penguin.com/node/2506
Nov 25 18:59:10 <vol_> that was a fun read at the time
Nov 25 18:59:29 <languish> jasta, did the BBB charge you for assisting you? A filing fee..etc?
Nov 25 18:59:31 <vol_> the BBB pretty much completely defended BestBuy, going so far as to say that the Ti4800 wasn't out at the time (it was obsolute at that point, actually)
Nov 25 18:59:35 <jasta> the winning strategy is to complain up the chain until you get someone too rich and busy to care about your problem, but not so rich or busy that they won't just wave their hand and make it go away :)
Nov 25 18:59:41 <jasta> languish: no, of course not.
Nov 25 18:59:51 <languish> Here in NYC, at one point, they were charging consumers to file complaints against businesses.
Nov 25 18:59:52 <vol_> dd94300: click the device
Nov 25 19:00:00 <languish> I believe they stopped, but they did it for awhile.
Nov 25 19:00:03 <vol_> on the "devices" tab
Nov 25 19:00:23 <jasta> languish: a lot of times, i have found, consumers complain about things that are totally their fault and those are the things they end up losing.
Nov 25 19:00:37 <jasta> and feeling wronged about it for some reason.  so much so that they complain on IRC years later :)
Nov 25 19:00:50 <dd94300> vol_: i did but still nothing
Nov 25 19:00:57 <vol_> hmm
Nov 25 19:01:08 <vol_> adb kill-server; adb start-server
Nov 25 19:01:11 <vol_> worth a shot : )
Nov 25 19:01:20 <jasta> like when broke ass people try to get overdraft charges and late fees taken off their accounts ;)
Nov 25 19:01:38 <vol_> when you click the device/emulator in the "devices" tab it should automatically attach logcat
Nov 25 19:01:42 <languish> jasta, and yet, while this is true.. some consumers do make complaints when the issue is completely their own fault, there are times when the consumer is wronged, and has a legitimate gripe to complain about, any time.
Nov 25 19:01:56 <vol_> jasta: you mean when the bank holds your check deposit for 2 weeks, but puts in withdrawls immediately?
Nov 25 19:02:02 <vol_> even cash deposits! :D
Nov 25 19:02:17 <jasta> languish: well in my personal experience i feel like i've gotten some measure of justice out of every complaint i've had with a large corporation.
Nov 25 19:02:24 <jasta> i even took staples to small claims court once :)
Nov 25 19:02:56 <languish> Jasta, for the most part in my personal, not business life.. I've exacted significant reparations from corps that have wronged me as a consumer.
Nov 25 19:03:04 <languish> In business, I have to be more careful.
Nov 25 19:03:22 <jasta> i have also found the opposite.  it's even easier to deal with corporations as one yourself.
Nov 25 19:03:51 <languish> Also, when I seek reparations, I don't just do it for myself. I also hound the company to ensure the issue doesn't affect other consumers.
Nov 25 19:04:29 <languish> Which I did recently with T-Mobile and HTC, over the G1 accessories warranty :)
Nov 25 19:05:02 <jasta> all i was trying to say is that i think your approach might be the biggest part of your problem.  i don't really care if you believe me :)
Nov 25 19:05:26 <languish> Jasta, and you don't know what my approach is.
Nov 25 19:05:37 <unix_infidel> jasta: meh, you could play both sides of the seesaw there.
Nov 25 19:05:41 <languish> You're coming to conclusions based on interaction on IRC.
Nov 25 19:06:00 <unix_infidel> corporations pay a premium over consumer grade, consumers are inherently your first priority as a retailer etc etc.
Nov 25 19:09:54 <rubyonlinux> lol, so funy you mention BBB, i actually had to use them against t-mobile a couple years ago, cause tmobile wrongly shortened the 'trial' period, and then wouldn't cancel my business account without the fee
Nov 25 19:10:06 <rubyonlinux> the bbb got on their ass, and low and behold, tmobile called me up and apologized
Nov 25 19:10:58 <jasta> rubyonlinux: which is certainly consistent with my experience.  the BBB has been nothing but helpful in every case i have involved them with.  as i said, most recently i got a large hospital to cancel a $2000 bill to my gf for services she actually received :)
Nov 25 19:10:59 <Death_Syn> all the wireless carriers are evil, unfortunately
Nov 25 19:11:14 <KNY> Death_Syn, definitely.
Nov 25 19:11:27 <KNY> and the wired ones, too (ISPs)
Nov 25 19:11:38 <jasta> which actually was a $10K bill for the hospital, $8K was originally covered by insurance but the whole thing got tossed out
Nov 25 19:12:10 <languish> the BBB doesn't really get on any companies ass. It's a game. The BBB really provides a mix of service and extortion to companies. Where they identify customers willing to go out of their way to "take action" (since most companies rely on consumers being too lazy)
Nov 25 19:12:24 <jasta> they performed an elective surgery without consent or consulting her family.  so we got the BBB involved and they dropped the charges.
Nov 25 19:13:01 <jasta> through a lengthy process, of course, but still ultimately the right thing happened.  probably because the hospital was afraid of malpractice lawsuits :)
Nov 25 19:13:05 <jasta> but either way hehe
Nov 25 19:13:13 <rubyonlinux> heh, well i went way out of my way previous to contacting the bbb also, but tmobile basically ignored me until i filed the complaint, and I wasn't a pushover either
Nov 25 19:13:41 <languish> things have changed a bit since about 2003
Nov 25 19:13:44 <jasta> rubyonlinux: the BBB is very good at getting the conversation to the right people.  from there, it's up to you usually.
Nov 25 19:13:53 <languish> companies have become more responsive to "active" consumers
Nov 25 19:13:56 <jasta> but that still is a very helpful service
Nov 25 19:14:21 <languish> partly because of the word of mouth on the internet hurting business, and alerting lawyers to class action potential..
Nov 25 19:14:53 <languish> and partly because some finally found consumers respond positively to a more responsive corp
Nov 25 19:15:09 <KNY> I wish developers could e-mail reviewers directly :-/
Nov 25 19:15:23 <languish> KNY, that's a nightmare, trust me
Nov 25 19:15:36 <KNY> someone reported a bug in the comments which is due to them not configuring the app properly. It's a two-second fix (for them).
Nov 25 19:16:25 <languish> Put a short url in each Market descriptions with :problems? report here:
Nov 25 19:16:35 <languish> -
Nov 25 19:17:21 <Death_Syn> i really hate market reviews
Nov 25 19:17:23 <Death_Syn> they're completely worthless
Nov 25 19:17:24 <languish> just got the new batteries from tmo
Nov 25 19:17:31 <Death_Syn> new batteries?
Nov 25 19:17:32 <KNY> languish, I have my email in it
Nov 25 19:17:33 <Death_Syn> you had bad ones?
Nov 25 19:17:48 <languish> Death_Syn, my wife did. they decided to replace both anyway
Nov 25 19:18:03 <Death_Syn> nice
Nov 25 19:18:04 <unix_infidel> languish: both?
Nov 25 19:18:15 <Death_Syn> i just conditioned mine and it was good
Nov 25 19:18:17 <Death_Syn> got lucky, i guess
Nov 25 19:18:20 <languish> unix_infidel both my wife and I have G1's
Nov 25 19:24:33 <vol_> Quick stupid question; is the browser supposed to work on the emulator?
Nov 25 19:26:00 <jbq> vol_: yes, it's supposed to work.
Nov 25 19:26:11 <vol_> hmm. Any way to troubleshoot why it isn't?
Nov 25 19:26:41 <jbq> no idea off-hand. browsers are tricky beasts.
Nov 25 19:26:49 <vol_> windows machine running linux vmware instance, but the linux instance has working internet (firefox works)
Nov 25 19:27:05 <jbq> I'd suspect some proxy issue.
Nov 25 19:27:41 <jbq> (but that doesn't mean that I know how to fix it)
Nov 25 19:34:16 <kRutOn> vol_: Is the emulator running under Windows or Linux
Nov 25 19:34:24 <vol_> linux
Nov 25 19:38:39 <unix_infidel> anyone on my earlier question regarding people who actually got their G1 from Wal-mart at the 150 price point?
Nov 25 19:44:19 <Disconnect>  unix_infidel: when was it $150? reports when it was released said $175
Nov 25 19:44:59 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 25 19:45:19 <Death_Syn> i could live with $148.88 G1 after I paid $180
Nov 25 19:45:32 <unix_infidel> Disconnect: at walmart.
Nov 25 19:45:32 <Death_Syn> it was the under $100 line that i wasn't happy hearing
Nov 25 19:45:40 <Death_Syn> thankfully, it doesn't seem to have come to pass
Nov 25 19:45:57 <Death_Syn> but, I bet black friday may have a <$100 G1 at walmart
Nov 25 19:46:15 <unix_infidel> Death_Syn: it is at 0 dollars in the UK iirc.
Nov 25 19:46:29 <Death_Syn> well, considering they don't take dollars, I'm sure
Nov 25 19:46:31 <Disconnect> unix_infidel: when. as in, what time period was it actually available for that.
Nov 25 19:46:39 <Death_Syn> probably need pounds sterling
Nov 25 19:46:42 <andyross> I saw a ton of coverage of the "G1 $30 off at Walmart" thing, but haven't heard of anyone who actually bought the phone for that price.  And I don't see it on walmart.com ...
Nov 25 19:46:55 <Death_Syn> it was on walmart.com for a bit
Nov 25 19:47:02 <vol_> sigh
Nov 25 19:47:04 <Death_Syn> but wsan't in stock
Nov 25 19:47:06 * vol_ paid $300
Nov 25 19:47:08 <unix_infidel> andyross: same here.  i'm guessing it is a black friday thing, which is why i'm curious.
Nov 25 19:47:15 <vol_> are they requiring a contract at walmart or something
Nov 25 19:47:27 <Disconnect> http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f21/walmart-g1-same-price-not-cheaper-5835/
Nov 25 19:47:56 <andyross> I'm sure it's with a contract -- the contract is where TMO actually makes their money.  The data plan is probably a loss, and I'm sure the cost from HTC of a new phone is around $150 or so.
Nov 25 19:48:45 <unix_infidel> andyross: yea they estimated the cost to be around 146 or so.
Nov 25 19:48:45 <Damm> if even that
Nov 25 19:49:13 <unix_infidel> it's only like 20 dollars less expensive than the iPhone in bare cost.  the rest is just design flaw ;-)
Nov 25 19:49:27 <Death_Syn> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10745553
Nov 25 19:50:01 <unix_infidel> Death_Syn: what about it?
Nov 25 19:55:21 <vol_> jbq kRutOn: logcat tells me   browser   onReceivedError code:-2 The URL could not be found.
Nov 25 19:55:25 <Disconnect> Death_Syn: "price varies by store"
Nov 25 19:56:00 <jbq> vol_: do other network-based apps work on that emulator?
Nov 25 19:56:23 <vol_> jbq: I haven't tried that yet. Any others you can think of?
Nov 25 19:56:38 <jbq> Is that an official SDK?
Nov 25 19:56:42 <vol_> I just closed the emu to test whether the ones on windows work
Nov 25 19:56:52 <vol_> I tried the one built from android source, and the official sdk emu
Nov 25 19:57:06 <jbq> SDK should have maps (I think), and from source should have Email.
Nov 25 19:57:42 <vol_> I'm going to try windows first, just in case. It could well be a vmware issue.
Nov 25 19:58:00 <jbq> There've been originally issues with emulators built from source (where the APN data for the emulated GSM stack wasn't properly set), and those were sticky until you did a clean build and wiped the emulator data.
Nov 25 19:59:16 <vol_> ah, actually, I'm using -datadir
Nov 25 19:59:18 <vol_> I wonder if that's it?
Nov 25 19:59:23 <jbq> might be
Nov 25 19:59:54 <vol_> ok, let me try running the emu w/o datadir, see if that works, and if it doesn't i'll try sdk emu w/o datadir
Nov 25 20:01:41 <vol_> argh, yep, that's it.
Nov 25 20:01:49 <vol_> ok, let me try wiping the data and trying again.
Nov 25 20:04:42 <vol_> hmmm. Ok, wiping data doesn't let me use the browser.
Nov 25 20:05:32 <jbq> hmmmm :(
Nov 25 20:06:00 <vol_> alright
Nov 25 20:06:01 <jbq> Unfortunately, that part of the system is a big mystery for me as well, so I don't have any real fix for you, just "recipes" to try.
Nov 25 20:06:11 <vol_> removed userdata-qemu, used -sdcard instead of -datadir
Nov 25 20:06:13 <vol_> that worked
Nov 25 20:06:28 <jbq> ah, ok.
Nov 25 20:06:47 <jbq> glad that you figured it out. I'm not sure which of the steps was the right one, though.
Nov 25 20:07:06 <vol_> I suspect it was -datadir that was killing it. I'm trying again, after rming userdata-qemu and using -datadir
Nov 25 20:07:12 <vol_> -datadir and -wipe-data
Nov 25 20:08:17 <vol_> ugh, no dice.
Nov 25 20:37:00 <dranfi> Hi
Nov 25 20:38:19 <dranfi> Do you know how to add android market to the android emulator?
Nov 25 20:40:13 <KNY> I don't believe you can
Nov 25 20:40:23 <KNY> we don't have the source for it
Nov 25 20:40:42 <KNY> maybe you could get someone with a rooted G1 to give you the .apk?
Nov 25 20:42:44 <dranfi> The Android Market is closed-source, no?
Nov 25 20:43:18 <vol_> yes, it's closed source.
Nov 25 20:44:51 <laura--> Hey.. how can one profile an Android application?
Nov 25 20:44:52 <dranfi> But does it's licence allow copy? or It can only be provided with the phone system?
Nov 25 21:08:11 <jasta> laura--: using traceview
Nov 25 21:09:50 <mpardo> whats the best way to see if my custom service is currently running?
Nov 25 21:12:38 <jasta> how do you mean "running"?  if you want to know if the process is there, use ps.
Nov 25 21:12:54 <mpardo> ps?
Nov 25 21:13:01 <jasta> if you want to see what its doing, use a debugger
Nov 25 21:13:06 <jasta> mpardo: adb shell ps
Nov 25 21:13:10 <mpardo> aah
Nov 25 21:13:11 <mpardo> no
Nov 25 21:13:20 <mpardo> i want my activity to see if a service it started is running
Nov 25 21:13:50 <mpardo> the service is not bound to the activity either
Nov 25 21:13:55 <jasta> well, here is where you get to define what "running" means.
Nov 25 21:14:24 <mpardo> has not reached onDestroy()
Nov 25 21:14:44 <jasta> you could do this a few ways, depending on your requirement.
Nov 25 21:14:50 <jasta> the most precise would be to bind to it and ask it.
Nov 25 21:15:02 <jasta> the easiest might be to just have it fire an intent broadcast when it finishes doing work
Nov 25 21:16:09 <mpardo> the only way it would ever reach onDestroy is if it somehow broke, or the more likely case is when someone stopped the service from the activity which started it
Nov 25 21:16:17 <mpardo> basically a start/stop button is what i need
Nov 25 21:16:24 <mpardo> i have on implemented, but very poorly
Nov 25 21:16:27 <mpardo> one*
Nov 25 21:17:52 <jasta> i advise you to bind to the service and ask it what its doing.
Nov 25 21:17:55 <KNY> languish, ping
Nov 25 21:18:21 <mpardo> if i bind the service then wont the service stop when the activity closes?
Nov 25 21:18:41 <mpardo> i need the service to live longer than the activity which starts and stops it
Nov 25 21:18:56 <jasta> mpardo: what you're missing here is that starting and stopping the service from android's point of view can be quite diferent than starting and stopping work from your point of view
Nov 25 21:19:43 <jasta> you could, for instance, bind to it, then implement an interface atop it where you can start work, see what work is happening, etc.
Nov 25 21:20:03 <jasta> when you start work, the service could start itself, and when it finishes work, stop itself
Nov 25 21:20:21 <jasta> this way, it will live longer than it is boudn to the activity
Nov 25 21:20:53 <mpardo> what if the "work" that it's doing is never stopped unless directed to by the user
Nov 25 21:20:57 <jasta> conversely, you could have the activity start the service, then bind to it (a very popular pattern), but then stopSelf in the service during onUnbind or whatever you want to do
Nov 25 21:21:16 <jasta> mpardo: doesn't matter.
Nov 25 21:21:40 <jasta> then you'd just have a very simple AIDL to implement: start(), stop(), and isStarted().
Nov 25 21:21:55 <jasta> then you can happily bind to the service without affecting its state.
Nov 25 21:22:02 <mpardo> maybe i should read up on AIDL then
Nov 25 21:22:09 <jasta> you wouldn't even implement onStart().
Nov 25 21:23:04 <jasta> if you wanted to be much lazier and sloppier, you could also just implement a special intent you can pass to onStart that just has it fire an intent broadcast saying what its doing
Nov 25 21:23:08 <jasta> instead of actually starting
Nov 25 21:23:34 <mpardo> aidl is cleaner?
Nov 25 21:23:49 <vol_> Is it possible to get NMEA messages from LBS on android?
Nov 25 21:23:56 <jasta> i believe so, yes.  you get a more direct context with which to communicate with your service.
Nov 25 21:23:58 <vol_> or are we stuck with "Here you are, here's the accuracy, have fun"
Nov 25 21:24:05 <mpardo> k i'm reading the docs no
Nov 25 21:24:08 <mpardo> now*
Nov 25 21:24:09 <mpardo> thanks
Nov 25 21:24:45 <jasta> mpardo: look at, for instance, the music player app.  it implements this pattern.
Nov 25 21:25:01 <jasta> in that, startService() does not have anything to do with whether the player service is playing music or not
Nov 25 21:25:01 <mpardo> music player uses aidl?
Nov 25 21:25:05 <jasta> yes, it does.
Nov 25 21:25:09 <vol_> of course : )
Nov 25 21:25:13 <vol_> that is how it exists in the background
Nov 25 21:25:14 <mpardo> is source available?
Nov 25 21:25:18 <jasta> mpardo: yes.
Nov 25 21:25:44 <mpardo> good cuz example seem to be the only way i figure junk out lol
Nov 25 21:26:49 <mpardo> where can i find the source?
Nov 25 21:29:08 <jasta> mpardo: i also use this pattern in almost all of my service implementations
Nov 25 21:29:33 <jasta> and my code is available
Nov 25 21:31:07 <mpardo> where can i find your code jasta?
Nov 25 21:32:24 <jasta> five.googlecode.com, mostly.  but also android-random.googlecode.com contains a bit of it
Nov 25 21:32:57 <mpardo> so AIDL is basically and implementation of interfaces?
Nov 25 21:33:49 <jasta> mpardo: AIDL is way to provide your own arbitrary IPC interface.
Nov 25 21:33:53 <vol_> something like that.
Nov 25 21:33:57 <vol_> AIDL lets you specify interfaces
Nov 25 21:34:00 <vol_> which you then implement
Nov 25 21:34:15 <mpardo> ah.. gotcha
Nov 25 21:34:15 <vol_> and then you can call against those interfaces in other processes
Nov 25 21:38:26 <mpardo> aidl basically declares all the interface methods?
Nov 25 21:38:43 <mpardo> which are then implemented in the service right?
Nov 25 21:38:50 <vol_> something like that.
Nov 25 21:39:08 <vol_> there should be an example or two on code.google.com/android
Nov 25 21:39:23 <vol_> http://code.google.com/android/reference/aidl.html
Nov 25 21:39:45 <vol_> that's more clear (and correct)
Nov 25 21:42:10 <mpardo> kl thanks guys
Nov 25 21:42:18 <jasta> mpardo: there is probably other reasons for your app to have such functionality too btw.
Nov 25 21:42:26 <jasta> for instance, you can now tell the user if the service is actually CONNECTED to something meaningful
Nov 25 21:42:32 <jasta> or if it has errored, or if it bla bla bla
Nov 25 21:42:36 <KNY> is there a way to get the versionName from the manifest from the code?
Nov 25 21:45:22 <umdk1d3> KNY: yep, heres a link in a sec
Nov 25 21:45:35 <KNY> I found PackageInfo, but I can't find how you get that
Nov 25 21:46:04 * umdk1d3 kicks stupid dialup
Nov 25 21:46:23 <jasta> i thought you were tethering?
Nov 25 21:46:32 <jasta> oh i bet you only get EDGE?  then your phone wont work heeh
Nov 25 21:47:16 <umdk1d3> KNY: http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/source/browse/trunk/connectbot/src/org/connectbot/util/UpdateHelper.java
Nov 25 21:48:33 <jasta> i cant believe we have to deal with shit like that right now :(
Nov 25 21:48:34 <KNY> umdk1d3, thanks
Nov 25 21:51:50 <pctechnerd> I'm back
Nov 25 21:52:30 <pctechnerd> hello everybody
Nov 25 21:54:26 <d0nets> hey what are iphone apps written in?
Nov 25 21:54:36 <d0nets> c++ ?
Nov 25 21:54:52 <khert> object c?
Nov 25 21:55:10 <romainguy__> Objective-C
Nov 25 21:55:10 <vol_> objective c
Nov 25 21:55:32 <d0nets> ok is it just called object c?
Nov 25 21:55:32 <d0nets> or orbjective c
Nov 25 21:55:37 <d0nets> sorry im newb, but im doing a project for my project management class
Nov 25 21:55:39 <romainguy__> it's called Objective-C
Nov 25 21:55:48 <vol_> objective c
Nov 25 21:55:52 <khert> that's what i meant :)
Nov 25 21:55:58 <vol_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C
Nov 25 21:56:48 <d0nets> we have to go through the steps up to developing a pda application
Nov 25 21:56:48 <d0nets> we started back in the spring and we were going to use the shop savvy idea but since it was actually developed we changed to the iphone
Nov 25 21:56:48 <d0nets> and called it "froogle scan"
Nov 25 21:56:48 <d0nets> ok
Nov 25 21:56:48 <d0nets> thanks
Nov 25 21:56:56 <unix_infidel> there are various ObjC bridges so you can use a lot of different things.
Nov 25 21:56:59 <mikey|> my service class issue got resolved by using onStart instead of onCreate
Nov 25 21:57:00 <d0nets> we have to present in a couple hours : /
Nov 25 21:57:09 <mikey|> strangely enough, the api samples use onCreate
Nov 25 21:57:14 <d0nets> and its judged by a panel of big wigs in our area
Nov 25 21:57:20 <d0nets> like a vp at fedex
Nov 25 21:57:25 <d0nets> lead project manager at autozone
Nov 25 21:57:48 <vol_> oh boy
Nov 25 21:57:51 <d0nets> wel i dont need to actually develope it
Nov 25 21:57:53 <vol_> lead project manager of autozone
Nov 25 21:57:57 <vol_> that's some hot shit there
Nov 25 21:58:10 <d0nets> lol
Nov 25 21:58:14 <pctechnerd> so has anyone used the G1 Central app?
Nov 25 21:58:16 <d0nets> im sensing sarcasm
Nov 25 21:58:29 <d0nets> hes not a bad guy, hes actually our mentor for the project
Nov 25 21:58:37 <KNY> pctechnerd, I'm the author. :)
Nov 25 21:58:40 <d0nets> hes going to try to hook me up with an internship
Nov 25 21:58:44 <unix_infidel> g1 central?
Nov 25 21:58:54 <pctechnerd> nice KNY
Nov 25 21:59:09 <KNY> just about to publish an update, actually (bug fix)
Nov 25 21:59:16 <pctechnerd> I've so wanted to use that program, but i've also been spending the past 7 months trying to find a way to get an invite, lol
Nov 25 21:59:35 <KNY> pctechnerd, haha. They took away my invites :/
Nov 25 21:59:40 <d0nets> what is that?
Nov 25 21:59:41 <pctechnerd> but I still downloaded the program hoping there's still a gleam of hope
Nov 25 21:59:43 <KNY> have you signed up to reserve a number?
Nov 25 21:59:53 <d0nets> someone needs to create an rss feed for market updates
Nov 25 21:59:53 <streeter> anybody got a grandcentral invite?
Nov 25 21:59:54 <d0nets> so i can put it in my google reader
Nov 25 21:59:57 <KNY> d0nets, G1 interface for grandcentral
Nov 25 21:59:59 <pctechnerd> oh yea, like a year ago
Nov 25 22:00:05 <d0nets> what is grandcentral
Nov 25 22:00:10 <KNY> grandcentral.com
Nov 25 22:00:11 <languish> pctechnerd, do it again
Nov 25 22:00:15 <KNY> another google-bought company
Nov 25 22:00:15 <pctechnerd> i did
Nov 25 22:00:17 <pctechnerd> like 3 times
Nov 25 22:00:30 <languish> o.O
Nov 25 22:00:47 <pctechnerd> a developer friend of mine (his makes the dgMoney program) just got an invite from someone 3 days ago from here
Nov 25 22:00:48 <streeter> pctechnerd: I meant, anybody have an invite they can give me.
Nov 25 22:00:58 <KNY> pctechnerd, that's 'blau' on this clannel
Nov 25 22:01:09 <pctechnerd> oh nice
Nov 25 22:01:31 <pctechnerd> he advised me because i'm kinda "muse"ing for him right now, that being here might be a good way to finally get what i've wanted lol
Nov 25 22:01:39 <d0nets> pcterd, it is invite only at,?
Nov 25 22:01:42 <pctechnerd> I was here first streeter, stay away lol
Nov 25 22:01:42 <d0nets> atm*?
Nov 25 22:01:47 <pctechnerd> yes
Nov 25 22:01:53 <d0nets> pctechnerd*
Nov 25 22:01:53 <pctechnerd> and even then, not everyone can invite
Nov 25 22:01:55 <d0nets> ;)
Nov 25 22:02:10 <KNY> pctechnerd, I believe no one can invite
Nov 25 22:02:27 <pctechnerd> matter of fact I gave him the idea of the enxt app he's working on, which is going to be freaking awesome
Nov 25 22:02:40 <pctechnerd> he's already working on it, and it should hopefully be in the store within a week or two
Nov 25 22:02:48 <KNY> enxt?
Nov 25 22:02:54 <pctechnerd> KNY, he just got an invite 3 days ago
Nov 25 22:02:57 <KNY> oh, next
Nov 25 22:02:59 <pctechnerd> err, next lol
Nov 25 22:03:08 <KNY> pctechnerd, for grandcentral? really?
Nov 25 22:03:12 <pctechnerd> yea
Nov 25 22:03:25 <KNY> I thought they discontinued the invite system. Well, that gives me hope that they're not killing off the service :)
Nov 25 22:03:53 * mikey| can't believe the solution to his onCreate problem >.<
Nov 25 22:04:16 <mikey|> was using OnCreate(bundle b), the service onCreate doesnt take args >.<
Nov 25 22:04:26 <languish> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10107628-2.html?tag=newsBlogPromoArea.1
Nov 25 22:04:36 <languish> imeem/android ad revenuw
Nov 25 22:04:43 <pctechnerd> and it's not Blau, Blau is my friend the developer
Nov 25 22:04:47 <languish> *revenue
Nov 25 22:04:48 <pctechnerd> he's the one that got the invite lol
Nov 25 22:05:08 <KNY> languish, thanks, I'll stay away from imeem now :)
Nov 25 22:05:41 <languish> KNY :)
Nov 25 22:06:13 <KNY> hopefully once they add the ability to charge on the market, not too many people will use ads
Nov 25 22:06:19 <KNY> I don't want ads on my phone
Nov 25 22:06:25 <languish> ditto
Nov 25 22:06:29 <languish> but then.. google..
Nov 25 22:06:33 * languish facepalm
Nov 25 22:06:41 <KNY> heh
Nov 25 22:07:01 <P2E> grandcentral looks interesting but a lot of this should be solved on-phone
Nov 25 22:07:19 <RyeBrye> Grandcentral + myfaves
Nov 25 22:07:20 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 25 22:07:22 <P2E> you can apparently already send callers directly to voicemail with the g1 as a callblock
Nov 25 22:07:32 <P2E> that's nice
Nov 25 22:07:36 <KNY> grr, stupid ctrl+w
Nov 25 22:07:43 <KNY> P2E, yeah, but GC offers a lot more than that
Nov 25 22:07:51 <languish> p2e, grandcentral has other benefits.
Nov 25 22:07:57 <pctechnerd> yea, but GC has options I need.  I work from home for my employer, and having multiple numbers ring and such would be great
Nov 25 22:07:57 <languish> Including a separate phone #
Nov 25 22:08:00 <RyeBrye> I wish grandcentral would sync with google contacts
Nov 25 22:08:15 <P2E> yeah, I don't really care about having 4 phone numbers
Nov 25 22:08:20 <pctechnerd> I've been looking for a way in for almost a year.  And I mean extensive googling and looking, not just passive browsing lol
Nov 25 22:08:21 <P2E> I have one phone, it's my cell =]
Nov 25 22:08:45 <languish> p2e, I don't always care to give everyone my direct cell # :)
Nov 25 22:08:49 <KNY> P2E, I like GC because I can transfer my number to my girlfriend's phone when we're visiting her family out in the boonies where I don't get service
Nov 25 22:08:58 <RyeBrye> The whole "web call" thing in GC is king of cool
Nov 25 22:09:05 <P2E> KNY: ok, that would be nice, I spose
Nov 25 22:09:10 <languish> and yes, transfer a # when there's no signal to a landline
Nov 25 22:09:11 <KNY> also, it serves as a line of defense against telemarketers--I couldn't care less if they get my GC number
Nov 25 22:09:16 <RyeBrye> but also of questionable utility. I don't want to put a link on my blog for people to randomly call me
Nov 25 22:09:28 <RyeBrye> GC also has spam blocking for callers, btw
Nov 25 22:09:31 <khert> and it's cool to have a 989 area code
Nov 25 22:09:40 <KNY> RyeBrye, if I ran a store or something, I'd use click-to-call
Nov 25 22:09:57 <RyeBrye> I was thinking of pretending to be a hawaiian - with an 808 or something
Nov 25 22:09:59 <languish> I do use click to call
Nov 25 22:10:00 <pctechnerd> aparently there is still the option for invites, though they are few and far between
Nov 25 22:10:17 <RyeBrye> Oh, GC is closed now?
Nov 25 22:10:21 <khert> i just signed up, let's see what happens
Nov 25 22:10:24 <KNY> RyeBrye, very close to it
Nov 25 22:10:45 <languish> blog.grandcentral.com  check the latest post
Nov 25 22:10:50 <RyeBrye> I think I signed up a half dozen accounts a year ago - but I have no idea what email addresses most of them were :/
Nov 25 22:11:35 <RyeBrye> languish - the latest post from April '08?
Nov 25 22:13:32 <khert> heh, i was checking my spam folder in gmail, and the ad that showed up was a "Spam Skillet Casserole" recipe
Nov 25 22:13:37 <KNY> I like how they say they want our feature suggestions but delete/hide all comments :-/
Nov 25 22:14:47 <RyeBrye> The reliance of flash for the WHOLE UI is a bit of overkill... I don't really see what they are doing in flash they can't rewrite in GWT For most of it - obviously the audio playback stuff might be a bit tricky
Nov 25 22:14:49 <vol_> I liked how they used to only have spam recipies in the spam folders
Nov 25 22:14:59 <vol_> but google has started to put in real text adds there now : (
Nov 25 22:15:06 <RyeBrye> of course, I might not care as much when I get a flash player on my phone :)
Nov 25 22:15:36 <KNY> RyeBrye, I agree with the overuse of Flash
Nov 25 22:16:32 <RyeBrye> Although I might be kind of a hypocrite... as I also do a lot of flex development for my day job - and I've been asked to do my fair share of crap in flex just because it's being done in flex
Nov 25 22:18:41 <romainguy__> hmmmm Pixel Bender
Nov 25 22:19:31 <unix_infidel> man, i just got rid of my taskbar...best decision ever.
Nov 25 22:19:34 <KNY> I like writing in Flex, just not using it ;)
Nov 25 22:36:37 <lresende>  is there native support for jsonrpc in android ? and does anyone know about a android app example that uses json-rpc ?'
Nov 25 22:37:20 <dranfi> Do you know where I can get the android market for the emulator?
Nov 25 22:37:34 <romainguy> it's not available
Nov 25 22:39:32 <dranfi> And the "jailbreak" on the emulator?   http://www.helloandroid.com/
Nov 25 22:40:48 <pctechnerd> anyone have a valid Grand Central invite?  I'm willing to trade for geek services or electronics :)
Nov 25 22:40:59 <dranfi> I installed Term.apk and Telnet.apk
Nov 25 22:41:07 <RyeBrye> dranfi - you don't need to jailbreak the emulator. it's already jailbroken
Nov 25 22:41:24 <RyeBrye> dranfi - you already have root access in the emulator
Nov 25 22:43:32 <dranfi> thru the telnet console aka telnet localhost 5554
Nov 25 22:43:32 <dranfi>  there's nothing like a terminal running on that telnet just "power", "network", "gsm", redir...
Nov 25 22:43:46 <dranfi> and term.apk is not launched as root.
Nov 25 22:44:23 <RyeBrye> danfi - so inside term.apk type "su"
Nov 25 22:44:37 <RyeBrye> dranfi - telnet is worthless on the emulator
Nov 25 22:44:51 <vol_> dranfi: type "adb shell" :P
Nov 25 22:45:24 <RyeBrye> dranfi - the emulator is not set up to be a secure environment, so you can easily get root on it. There is nothing to jailbreak, and following instructions that apply to a specific device for the emulator is like following instructions on how to cook a turkey for a ham - it's just plain dumb
Nov 25 22:50:02 <pctechnerd> still willing to offer if anyone has one
Nov 25 22:50:36 <vol_> I will only accept sexual favors
Nov 25 22:50:56 <pctechnerd> well Vol, if you can get me a GC invite I can get you laid
Nov 25 22:51:01 <pctechnerd> even trade rofl
Nov 25 22:51:06 <dranfi> ok I have said something dumb :p
Nov 25 22:51:25 <pctechnerd> what's that dranfi
Nov 25 22:52:02 <vol_> pctechnerd: I demand brojobs
Nov 25 22:52:19 <pctechnerd> GC Invite, then we'll talk hahaha
Nov 25 22:53:18 <pctechnerd> so what android related websites does everyone peruse?
Nov 25 22:57:24 <pctechnerd> so maybe someone can answer a question that i've wondered for a long long time.  Why is it that people enter a irc chat, and then don't talk or do anything?
Nov 25 22:57:40 <RyeBrye> lurking
Nov 25 22:57:41 <pctechnerd> take this room for example, there's well over 30 people in here, but only about 1 or 2 actually do or say anything
Nov 25 22:57:57 <RyeBrye> there are 253 people in here
Nov 25 22:58:06 <pctechnerd> oh yea, lol
Nov 25 22:58:06 <RyeBrye> perhaps it is personal though
Nov 25 22:58:12 <RyeBrye> maybe you have considered that?
Nov 25 22:58:17 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 25 22:58:21 <pctechnerd> haha RyeBrye
Nov 25 22:58:32 <pctechnerd> everone all logged in at the same time to torment me.  I like the sound of that
Nov 25 22:58:51 <pctechnerd> makes me feel important.  well at least important enough to annoy by a mass majority
Nov 25 22:59:54 <pctechnerd> anyone want a WRE54G?
Nov 25 23:03:40 <dranfi> yes please :p
Nov 25 23:06:10 <pctechnerd> i'm willing to give it up and ship it out for a GC invite
Nov 25 23:06:39 <pctechnerd> i have a spare WRE54G lying around that i'm not using, so might as well get some use out of it lol
Nov 25 23:07:21 <dranfi> GC invite?
Nov 25 23:07:27 <pctechnerd> grand central
Nov 25 23:10:28 <pctechnerd> afk
Nov 25 23:25:22 <rubyonlinux> duuude, why does the aim for android (stock) suck soo bad
Nov 25 23:27:56 <RyeBrye> pctechnerd - for GC did you try that reserve a number thing?
Nov 25 23:38:14 <vol_> awesome, finally got my project running on device! :D
Nov 25 23:38:23 <vol_> too bad it's hella slow because we're not using SurfaceFlinger : (
Nov 25 23:40:57 <Damm> GC?
Nov 25 23:40:58 <RyeBrye> what's the project?
Nov 25 23:40:59 <Damm> er nm
Nov 25 23:44:22 <thesquib> urm, what is SurfaceFlinger?
Nov 25 23:44:59 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 25 23:45:01 <thesquib> oh this is related to porting android?
Nov 25 23:45:45 <Damm> isn't public aways pretty much a kline offense on freenode?
Nov 25 23:48:32 <danfuzz> i didn't know that, though i certainly find them annoying
Nov 25 23:52:06 <romainguy__> thesquib: you cannot not use SurfaceFlinger
Nov 25 23:52:12 <romainguy__> without it, you wouldn't see anything on screen ^^
Nov 25 23:53:39 <jasta> i think you meant vol
Nov 25 23:56:18 <pctechnerd> i have tried reserving so many times
Nov 25 23:56:31 <pctechnerd> that's why i'm offering geek services or electronics if someone can give me a invite
Nov 25 23:58:36 <pctechnerd> what android related websites does everyone frequent?
Nov 25 23:59:06 <grey-> I've got errr...
Nov 25 23:59:22 <grey-> android community syndicated feed, as well as the android developer's blog syndicated feed.
Nov 25 23:59:37 <jbq> I read http://review.source.android.com/ but that's because it's part of my workflow ;-)
Nov 25 23:59:41 <grey-> androidguys never updates.
Nov 25 23:59:59 <pctechnerd> Android community is pretty decent, but i'm still trying to find a site that searches as much as possible for any new info, including renegade apps that are in development
Nov 26 00:00:00 <grey-> jbq: neat; I see no atom/rss though. :-/
Nov 26 00:00:15 <pctechnerd> <-- is a app guru/mod for androidcommunity.com
Nov 26 00:00:37 <grey-> pctechnerd: I just aggredate the main feed, but it seems to update more than any other site I've found thus far.
Nov 26 00:00:39 <jbq> grey-: I was being facetious. But that'd be a good idea. Just definitely not anywhere high on the priority list.
Nov 26 00:00:41 <grey-> pctechnerd: keep up the good work.
Nov 26 00:00:56 <grey-> jbq: *nod* some bug/ticketing systems have such things built in [e.g. trac]
Nov 26 00:01:02 <grey-> nice feature, useful @ work.
Nov 26 00:01:06 <joeo> we've talked about doing it
Nov 26 00:01:12 <joeo> in review.source.android.com I mean
Nov 26 00:01:16 <joeo> maybe in gerrit2
Nov 26 00:01:18 <grey-> kewl.
Nov 26 00:01:36 <pctechnerd> so i'm thinking about posting a reward lol
Nov 26 00:01:42 <grey-> syndication ftw.
Nov 26 00:01:46 <grey-> well... you post html...
Nov 26 00:01:51 <grey-> use some ghetto scraper, done. ;)
Nov 26 00:02:13 <grey-> scaling it for everyone who wants to view it though... not as easily hacked together. :)
Nov 26 00:03:34 <pctechnerd> I also peruse http://android.git.kernel.org/ to check the patch history.  Kinda get a jist of what is being worked on, at least somewhat
Nov 26 00:04:25 <grey-> herm... same deal.
Nov 26 00:04:33 <grey-> there's even an opml link; but not so handy, heh.
Nov 26 00:04:51 <grey-> actually lemme try that in a different reader.
Nov 26 00:05:14 <grey-> :-/ no joy.
Nov 26 00:05:26 <grey-> in safari/webkit or google reader.
Nov 26 00:06:22 <pctechnerd> i just have it bookmarked in chrome
Nov 26 00:06:30 <grey-> yeah...
Nov 26 00:06:30 <pctechnerd> which btw, the latest build is blazing freaking fast
Nov 26 00:06:42 <grey-> I'm looking forward to chrome for osx. ;-/
Nov 26 00:06:53 <grey-> tab/window taskmanager = killer feature I've wanted for years in a browser.
Nov 26 00:07:04 <pctechnerd> yea, it's nice
Nov 26 00:07:10 <pctechnerd> i can't wait till mobile chrome for android
Nov 26 00:07:17 <grey-> *nod* not nice enough to deal with running in windows though.
Nov 26 00:07:24 <pctechnerd> would be very nice to have tabs in leu of window set
Nov 26 00:07:30 <grey-> you think chrome will be ported to android wholesale?
Nov 26 00:07:35 <grey-> I mean I know v8 already has an arm target.
Nov 26 00:07:42 <pctechnerd> oh i'm sure it will
Nov 26 00:07:44 <grey-> windowset/tabs are about the same.
Nov 26 00:07:56 <pctechnerd> chrome has set a new standard in browsers.  it's going to be utilized in as many facets as possible
Nov 26 00:08:00 <grey-> I would like to have a 'close' window with just one open window option in the current webkit android browser though.
Nov 26 00:08:21 <grey-> as it stands now I always leave one blank window open in android's browser
Nov 26 00:08:29 <grey-> so that I can close whatever else I've opened.
Nov 26 00:08:32 <grey-> suboptimal.
Nov 26 00:08:34 <pctechnerd> though i did see a video with the updated current droid webkit browser.  it had some nice polish on it
Nov 26 00:08:48 <pctechnerd> i agree grey
Nov 26 00:08:58 <pctechnerd> also the browser should have GMarks integration
Nov 26 00:09:06 <pctechnerd> i don't understand how they left that out
Nov 26 00:09:17 <grey-> gmarks?
Nov 26 00:09:23 <grey-> ah
Nov 26 00:09:26 <pctechnerd> GMarks = google bookmarks
Nov 26 00:09:26 <grey-> I don't really use bookmarks
Nov 26 00:09:39 <pctechnerd> but in a mobile browser it really helps
Nov 26 00:09:50 <grey-> since I started using syndicated content 4-5 years ago I really don't use a browser in that sort of way at all anymore.
Nov 26 00:10:07 <grey-> going to a page without knowing if there's new content is a waste of time.
Nov 26 00:10:08 <pctechnerd> and with GMarks implimented, everything in the cloud bla bla bla, it's a hell of a lot easier to manage
Nov 26 00:10:13 <grey-> hmm
Nov 26 00:10:32 <pctechnerd> i go to pages for more than just new content
Nov 26 00:10:43 <pctechnerd> reference, communication, etc..
Nov 26 00:11:12 <grey-> webfora are perhaps my least preferred method of communication (see also: myspace; see also: why I'm using irc right now instead ;)
Nov 26 00:11:37 <pctechnerd> yea, but the general sheep don't even know what IRC is, let alone how to utilize it
Nov 26 00:12:00 <pctechnerd> and my life revolves around CC for everyone
Nov 26 00:12:30 <grey-> CC?
Nov 26 00:12:33 <pctechnerd> which is why i've been trying to get a grand central invite forever
Nov 26 00:12:39 <pctechnerd> CC = Cloud communication
Nov 26 00:12:43 <grey-> ah, haha.
Nov 26 00:12:50 <grey-> well there are tools which allow for broadcast.
Nov 26 00:12:53 <grey-> e.g. plaxo and whatnot.
Nov 26 00:13:00 <grey-> post once, it posts everywhere else.
Nov 26 00:13:10 <pctechnerd> yea, but you have to remember with the general public you have to work bottom barrell and then upward
Nov 26 00:13:12 <grey-> but the downside to that is all those services of broadcast/aggregation
Nov 26 00:13:34 <pctechnerd> i use CC to talk with family, friends, work, etc..
Nov 26 00:13:35 <grey-> haven't tried to solve the issue of if I'm aggregating from many sources, I don't want to see the same message 10 times because I've got that person as a contact 10x.
Nov 26 00:13:54 <grey-> even like, hashing the message and doing a compare and marking read for everything else that matches once you've read once would probably work well.
Nov 26 00:13:59 <pctechnerd> i work from home.  I get paid 40k to take 3 five minute phone calls a night
Nov 26 00:14:09 <grey-> . . . ?
Nov 26 00:14:14 <grey-> interesting job?
Nov 26 00:14:25 <pctechnerd> i work for a major credit card processor as over the phone technical support
Nov 26 00:14:36 <grey-> ah, interesting.
Nov 26 00:14:39 <Nafai> I've been waiting for Grand Central invite too
Nov 26 00:15:14 <pctechnerd> i've been thuroughly researching, googling, and talking for the past 8 months to try and get one
Nov 26 00:15:25 <pctechnerd> that's why I'm giving away geek services or electronics for one now
Nov 26 00:15:37 <grey-> weird
Nov 26 00:15:42 <grey-> didn't realize it was some 'thing'
Nov 26 00:15:44 <pctechnerd> It would only help my CC, and provide me with a centralized location for it
Nov 26 00:15:45 <grey-> I thought it was a paid service.
Nov 26 00:15:50 <pctechnerd> no, it's free
Nov 26 00:16:00 <pctechnerd> and the only google service i haven't been able to utilize yet
Nov 26 00:16:04 <pctechnerd> <-- Google nut
Nov 26 00:16:12 <grey-> hmm
Nov 26 00:16:18 <grey-> not all that is google is good.
Nov 26 00:16:28 <pctechnerd> i've been enjoying it so far
Nov 26 00:16:31 <grey-> heh.
Nov 26 00:16:46 <rubyonlinux> does anyone here use heavily the google talk .. curious if you find that it stays connected ..
Nov 26 00:16:53 <pctechnerd> i do, and it does
Nov 26 00:16:55 <grey-> rubyonlinux: on linux?
Nov 26 00:16:58 <pctechnerd> i use it on my G1 and gmail
Nov 26 00:16:59 <grey-> errr android?
Nov 26 00:16:59 <rubyonlinux> on android
Nov 26 00:17:03 <grey-> not so much.
Nov 26 00:17:07 <pctechnerd> it never disco's on my G1
Nov 26 00:17:08 <grey-> (use it that is)
Nov 26 00:17:14 <grey-> it seems that it stays connected okish.
Nov 26 00:17:18 <grey-> probably better than the other IM's.
Nov 26 00:17:24 <grey-> I've heard many complaints from sk users.
Nov 26 00:17:24 <rubyonlinux> yea it seems the best so far
Nov 26 00:17:27 <pctechnerd> i have a chat link on my website so anyone can get ahold of me via GTalk no matter where i'm at
Nov 26 00:17:28 <grey-> but what they didn't realize
Nov 26 00:17:29 <rubyonlinux> but still was disco
Nov 26 00:17:38 <grey-> is that sidekick/danger proxy their IM
Nov 26 00:17:51 <grey-> so even when you're actually disconnected, to your friends and you it appears that you're still online.
Nov 26 00:18:13 <grey-> if an irc client ships for android (I think there's several due in the marketplace soon)
Nov 26 00:18:23 <pctechnerd> I can honestly say now that I will never use a different phone from now on unless it has Android on it
Nov 26 00:18:23 <rubyonlinux> yeah, that's what android needs, don't try to stay connected over all these flakey networks
Nov 26 00:18:28 <grey-> it would be trivial to setup an irc client to an irc bnc [e.g. psybnc] and in turn to biltbee.
Nov 26 00:18:31 <rubyonlinux> just poll like crazy whenever possible
Nov 26 00:18:33 <pctechnerd> It's just too damn good to go back to something prior
Nov 26 00:18:40 <grey-> and thus make the disconnections/etc. seem nonexistent.
Nov 26 00:19:02 <grey-> but for now I do it the way I do on my desktop
Nov 26 00:19:05 <grey-> ssh to shell
Nov 26 00:19:09 <grey-> (using connectbot)
Nov 26 00:19:11 <grey-> attach to screen
Nov 26 00:19:15 <grey-> keep chatting. (:
Nov 26 00:19:30 <grey-> but I realize many of my friends aren't as familiar/comfortable with that modality.
Nov 26 00:19:35 <eldenz> : ) i would like some notifications popping up though for my irc/im things :)
Nov 26 00:19:43 <pctechnerd> yea
Nov 26 00:19:47 <rubyonlinux> grey-:  cool idea
Nov 26 00:19:58 <rubyonlinux> i've been playing with variations on that theme
Nov 26 00:20:01 <pctechnerd> it's like the Meebo App.  In itself it's a great app, but it definitely needs some work
Nov 26 00:20:01 <rubyonlinux> still haven't settled on one
Nov 26 00:20:03 <grey-> rubyonlinux: there's a fork of bitlbee that has otr support as well.
Nov 26 00:20:15 <grey-> rubyonlinux: trick with that, you want to make sure your irc client [and bncer] support ssl.
Nov 26 00:20:22 <grey-> so that you're not leaking plaintext.
Nov 26 00:21:06 <grey-> conceivably, you could run all this locally if you've rooted your g1 and done the debian userland stuff.
Nov 26 00:21:10 <pctechnerd> but either way guys, please spread the word.  I'm offering web/graphic design or electronics (like a WRE54G) for a valid Grand Central invite
Nov 26 00:21:16 <grey-> but that's probably less helpful for non tech savvy people too.
Nov 26 00:21:22 <rubyonlinux> yeah, i tried the xmpp bridge type stuff , kinda hard, kinda not worth how hard it is
Nov 26 00:22:31 <rubyonlinux> i would like to build a simple aggregator, which publishes more of an atom type feed for all messaging
Nov 26 00:23:05 <rubyonlinux> well, perhaps simple wasn't the word to use :)
Nov 26 00:23:21 <pctechnerd> has anyone purchased anything like this yet? http://www.fommy.com/view-full-page.asp?divid=HTC&model=HTC+Dream&skuno=82000#
Nov 26 00:24:37 <rubyonlinux> nope, all i got was a headphone connector
Nov 26 00:25:02 <pctechnerd> it's a nice looking dock, though I'm getting tired of the issue i'm having with my G1 and memory card
Nov 26 00:25:12 <rubyonlinux> and now i realize i should have gotten the headphone + charge splitter connector heh
Nov 26 00:25:21 <pctechnerd> half the time when I connect and mount, it doesn't read, and then i have to remove and reinsert the card
Nov 26 00:27:04 <pctechnerd> like right now, even though my card is in the phone, it still acts as though there's no card present.  i have to remove and reinsert it to resolve
Nov 26 00:27:22 <pctechnerd> but this only happens randomly when i connect ot my computer (I charge from my computer most of the time)
Nov 26 00:27:44 <pctechnerd> and it only happened after they switched the mounting functionality in RC28
Nov 26 00:29:11 <pctechnerd> So who here uses grand central?
Nov 26 00:29:21 * Nafai wants to
Nov 26 00:29:27 <Nafai> But hasn't been invited yet :)
Nov 26 00:41:50 * JJ|Laptop has android almsot working on his htc touch vogue
Nov 26 00:42:31 <pctechnerd> nice JJ
Nov 26 00:42:40 <pctechnerd> fully functioning or hack build?
Nov 26 00:43:22 <JJ|Laptop> i'm getting the port from xda running
Nov 26 00:45:10 <jasta> JJ|Laptop: have you seen this: http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ ?
Nov 26 00:45:17 <jasta> because he basically did all the workf or you :)
Nov 26 00:45:18 <JJ|Laptop> yup
Nov 26 00:46:00 <JJ|Laptop> i've been fiddling with that and a .cab package from that
Nov 26 00:51:14 <JJ|Laptop> any ideas for an easy way to upgrade the radio?
Nov 26 00:51:23 <JJ|Laptop> i think my old radio is causing some issues
Nov 26 00:52:09 <jasta> JJ|Laptop: did you read the instructions aboutgetting your ppp username/password?
Nov 26 00:52:30 <JJ|Laptop> i didn;t see anyhting like that
Nov 26 00:53:02 <jasta> is your issue that after so many minutes data connections stop working?
Nov 26 00:53:43 <JJ|Laptop> that and when it boots i see "old radio: no audio" or something along those lines
Nov 26 00:54:07 <jasta> hmm, no idea
Nov 26 00:54:50 <pctechnerd> there's a reward out there
Nov 26 00:55:47 <JJ|Laptop> pctechnerd: reward?
Nov 26 00:56:04 <JJ|Laptop> jasta: it's weird though, because the radio works fine for calls
Nov 26 00:56:07 <pctechnerd> yup, a reward for anyone that can get me an invite to Grand Central
Nov 26 00:56:25 <jasta> JJ|Laptop: i recall the data connection issue being related to not setting your ppp username and password
Nov 26 00:56:59 <jasta> its a shame he doesnt ahve USB working yet, you could just do adb logcat
Nov 26 00:57:03 <jasta> im surprised thats not his first priority, honestly
Nov 26 00:57:11 <jasta> (i used to use this hack back before i had my g1)
Nov 26 00:57:55 * JJ|Laptop is planning to eventually had an HTC touch HD with android
Nov 26 00:58:03 <JJ|Laptop> *get an
Nov 26 00:58:24 <jasta> JJ|Laptop: some reason you dont want to use the G1? :)
Nov 26 00:58:44 <JJ|Laptop> jasta: i have a year befor emy contract's up and the touch hd looks like win
Nov 26 00:58:56 <JJ|Laptop> *before my
Nov 26 00:58:59 <jasta> i just paid the early terminal fee personally
Nov 26 00:59:08 <jasta> termination*
Nov 26 00:59:17 <JJ|Laptop> so...
Nov 26 00:59:26 <JJ|Laptop> aparently the camera should be working now, but it won;t load.
Nov 26 00:59:28 <JJ|Laptop> i wonder...
Nov 26 01:02:27 <unix_infidel> jasta: you ditched tmobile and just kept the phone?
Nov 26 01:05:34 <pctechnerd> does the touch HD have a full qwerty?
Nov 26 01:06:40 <spikebike> touch HD has no keyboard
Nov 26 01:08:43 <jasta> unix_infidel: no, i ditched AT&T and signed upf or T-Mobile
Nov 26 01:08:46 <JJ|Laptop> but it has a bigger screen
Nov 26 01:08:49 <jasta> and paid a termination fee to do so
Nov 26 01:08:54 <unix_infidel> jasta: ah.
Nov 26 01:08:59 <jasta> and i will probably do it again too, when the next carrier comes out with an android phone
Nov 26 01:09:15 <unix_infidel> that's some very expensive disloyalty ;-)
Nov 26 01:09:22 <JJ|Laptop> pctechnerd: 3.8" screen
Nov 26 01:09:37 <jasta> not in the grand scheme of things.  the cost of the cancelled contract is approximately the difference that the carrier is subsidizing the new phone
Nov 26 01:09:59 <pctechnerd> now JJ, how are you going to utilize Android for anything requiring text entry on your touch HD without a hardware kb?
Nov 26 01:10:24 <JJ|Laptop> pctechnerd: the android i;m using right now has a virtual kb
Nov 26 01:10:27 <pctechnerd> droid doesn't have a first party vkb, and the user created ones are limited at best right now
Nov 26 01:10:38 <pctechnerd> ah gocha
Nov 26 01:10:46 <jasta> pctechnerd: martin created a virtual keyboard in the kernel framebuffer driver
Nov 26 01:10:53 <jasta> which works _terribly_, i might add.
Nov 26 01:10:53 <JJ|Laptop> my current phone has nothing but touch and a few toggle buttons
Nov 26 01:11:11 <JJ|Laptop> jasta: yeah, takes up 2/3 of my screen.
Nov 26 01:11:14 <jasta> it was fun to play with before i had my g1, but is anything but a usable platform.
Nov 26 01:11:15 <romainguy> just wait for the one we're working on
Nov 26 01:11:17 <JJ|Laptop> jasta: would you happen to know what pm.sleep_mode does in the default.txt?
Nov 26 01:11:28 <pctechnerd> i like the specs of the touch HD, but I also like my hardware kb
Nov 26 01:11:39 <jasta> romainguy: oh yeah? :)
Nov 26 01:11:42 <JJ|Laptop> pctechnerd: it laso has crazy battery life
Nov 26 01:11:50 <pctechnerd> nice
Nov 26 01:12:04 <jasta> romainguy: oh wait, i might have missed your inflection on that.
Nov 26 01:12:06 <JJ|Laptop> Talk time:
Nov 26 01:12:06 <JJ|Laptop>     *
Nov 26 01:12:06 <JJ|Laptop>       Up to 420 minutes for WCDMA
Nov 26 01:12:06 <JJ|Laptop>     *
Nov 26 01:12:06 <JJ|Laptop>       Up to 480 minutes for GSM
Nov 26 01:12:07 <JJ|Laptop> Standby time:
Nov 26 01:12:09 <JJ|Laptop>     *
Nov 26 01:12:13 <JJ|Laptop>       Up to 680 hours for WCDMA
Nov 26 01:12:15 <JJ|Laptop>     *
Nov 26 01:12:17 <JJ|Laptop>       Up to 440 hours for GSM
Nov 26 01:12:28 <JJ|Laptop> so 28 days of standby time
Nov 26 01:12:32 <romainguy> jasta: ?
Nov 26 01:12:39 <jasta> those times are closely tied to the operating system that is running on the phone JJ :)
Nov 26 01:12:46 <JJ|Laptop> i know
Nov 26 01:12:59 <JJ|Laptop> and i bet that it will be better with android :p
Nov 26 01:13:07 <jasta> romainguy: did you mean "just be patient", or "we're working on an awesome soft keyboard"? :)
Nov 26 01:13:17 <romainguy> both
Nov 26 01:13:27 <romainguy> be patient because we're working on an IMF and an IME
Nov 26 01:14:09 <Leeds> no patience - want now!
Nov 26 01:14:13 <JJ|Laptop> "old radio found: audio disabled"
Nov 26 01:14:18 <pctechnerd> anyone have a changelog for the new chrome update?
Nov 26 01:14:37 <Leeds> ahem, sorry
Nov 26 01:14:40 <jbq__> Leeds: working on getting it out asap ;-)
Nov 26 01:15:07 <JJ|Laptop> nuce
Nov 26 01:15:39 <JJ|Laptop> setting pm.sleep_mode makes it so my phone no longer freezes when the screen is turned off
Nov 26 01:22:26 <khert> i think i messed up my SD card when i removed w/ the phone still on.
Nov 26 01:26:48 <pctechnerd> So I hate sounding like a broken record, but I'm trying not to.  Does anyone have a grand central invite they're willing to part with?  We can negotiate for what
Nov 26 01:45:21 <MystSparks> grand central doesn't do invites anymore
Nov 26 01:54:14 <eldenz> romainguy, awesome pictures on flickr!
Nov 26 01:54:19 <romainguy> thanks
Nov 26 02:14:22 <JJ|Laptop> hhmm...
Nov 26 02:15:31 <JJ|Laptop> htc is telling me to flash my phone with what could be the wrong ROM
Nov 26 02:19:21 <eldenz> does anyone know where the current wallpaper is stored?
Nov 26 02:33:29 <Versed> I just got my g1 tonight, I have  a question, I put a application on the sd card, how do get to it to install it?
Nov 26 02:38:08 <eldenz> 1. Enable outside-of-Market applications. Go into Settings, Applications, and enable the "Unknown sources" option.
Nov 26 02:38:20 <eldenz> i don't know any further, though
Nov 26 02:38:33 <romainguy> that's to install apps through the web browser
Nov 26 02:38:41 <romainguy> you can also install the app using the SDK or the Eclipse plugin
Nov 26 02:38:52 <romainguy> (with the SDK, run adb install theapp.apk)
Nov 26 02:40:06 <Andomic> G1 is a good phone , but the battery dies to damn quick.
Nov 26 02:41:14 <pctechnerd> ahoy hoy
Nov 26 02:41:24 <pctechnerd> anyone up for getting the reward?
Nov 26 02:42:26 <Andomic> what's some good tips for savinf battery life for a long trip?
Nov 26 02:42:47 <P2E> no gps
Nov 26 02:42:50 <spikebike> turn off 3g, wifi, or even better get a car charger ;-)
Nov 26 02:42:54 <spikebike> ya gps as well
Nov 26 02:43:14 <P2E> also if you just got your phone, make sure you go through a full charge/discharge cycles
Nov 26 02:43:29 <P2E> charge it completely, let it die completely
Nov 26 02:43:30 <pctechnerd> i'll be blunt, as being indirective tends to not work on irc chat rooms
Nov 26 02:44:20 <P2E> pctechnerd: I think no one knows what reward you speak of
Nov 26 02:44:28 <pctechnerd> for the last 8 months i've been trying everywhere and googling everywhere to find a grand central invite.  if someone has one, i'll gladly trade geeky services or electronics for it
Nov 26 02:45:19 <pctechnerd> a friend of mine, who is a android developer, told me he got one from someone in this irc chat room 3 days ago, so it stuck a new fire under my butt and a hope in my heart
Nov 26 02:45:22 <pctechnerd> hence why i'm here
Nov 26 02:47:53 <unix_infidel> pctechnerd: what is grand central?
Nov 26 02:50:38 <Leeds> unix_infidel: a unified messaging system (largely online voicemail and call routing, I think) bought by Google a year or two back
Nov 26 02:51:48 <unix_infidel> Leeds: meh, i'm not big on voice, though visual voicemail sounds nice.
Nov 26 02:51:54 <unix_infidel> which is available elsewhere
Nov 26 02:52:55 <Leeds> frankly, pctechnerd has been spamming this channel for at least the last 3 hours begging for an invite
Nov 26 02:56:27 <JJ|Laptop> so i wonder if upgrading my phone from a 1x radio to a 3x radio could damnage it
Nov 26 02:58:08 <unix_infidel> hmm, dual phone and battery charger...intersting...
Nov 26 02:58:43 <Andomic> yeh charger is good , if i wasn't goin to be on a bus spikebike lol
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 26 02:59:57 2008