**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 26 02:59:57 2008
Nov 26 03:01:35 <Disconnect> Leeds: tag an oper for warning/ban/whatever as appropriate..
Nov 26 03:05:07 <TiberiumX> Anyone know of a way for a service to listen for connection to a charger?
Nov 26 03:28:12 <TiberiumX> For the benefit of anyone who happens to search for this in google:  To listen for a charger, your application needs to register for the ACTION_BATTERY_CHANGED intent.
Nov 26 03:42:42 <pctechnerd> first and foremost, i have not been spamming.  i hardly call 1 message every hour or so spamming.  and second off, i haven't begged.  i've offered advise to people on the things they were needing assistance on, and also offering up a trade
Nov 26 03:43:15 <pctechnerd> your generalistics do not befit the situation
Nov 26 03:43:32 * geist looks around, wondering who he's talking to
Nov 26 03:44:08 <pctechnerd> i'm talking to leeds and disconnect
Nov 26 03:44:34 <Leeds> yeah... you were spanning
Nov 26 03:44:37 <Leeds> spamming!
Nov 26 03:44:44 <pctechnerd> you're so full of it
Nov 26 03:44:58 <pctechnerd> pull up logs with time stamps and show me where i was spamming
Nov 26 03:44:59 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 26 03:45:34 <Disconnect> "I only did it occasionally" doesn't stop it being spam.
Nov 26 03:45:39 <pctechnerd> you've been in here long enough you can pull up logs from when i first got here (last night around 4am pacific)
Nov 26 03:46:09 <pctechnerd> funny, i don't remember directing anyone to a website, or spam posting.  i asked someone if they wanted to trade a invite for geek services or electronics
Nov 26 03:46:17 <Leeds> way to make friends and influence people
Nov 26 03:46:26 <pctechnerd> i'm talking to the general public in this room, in leu of a specific person, does that make it spam?
Nov 26 03:47:07 <Disconnect> you're begging. and its offtopic. in a venue that clearly can not or will not help you.
Nov 26 03:48:12 <pctechnerd> how can someone posting something once every 1.5 hours on average and not asking for handouts be considered begging?
Nov 26 03:48:34 <pctechnerd> and cannot is incorrect, as an android developer friend of mine received one from this very room no more than 3 days ago
Nov 26 03:48:41 <pctechnerd> and directed me here
Nov 26 03:48:48 <pctechnerd> will not is a whole different ball park
Nov 26 03:48:56 <Disconnect> then your friend has done you and us a disservice.
Nov 26 03:49:29 <pctechnerd> wow you are a total dick
Nov 26 03:49:30 <Disconnect> did your friend advise you to keep begging until you annoyed everyone who might be able to help?
Nov 26 03:49:41 <Leeds> is your friend some random person writing software for Android, or one of the plaform developers?
Nov 26 03:49:57 <pctechnerd> are you the room mascot or something?  how am I annoying everyone when only leeds has chimed in and then you followed sniffing his butt?
Nov 26 03:50:11 <pctechnerd> he's a developer of one of the big programs on the store right now
Nov 26 03:50:17 <Disconnect> Leeds: my bet is his friend is just a random user actually
Nov 26 03:50:20 <Leeds> where's an op when you need one
Nov 26 03:50:22 <pctechnerd> and i've also been helping him with program ideas etc..
Nov 26 03:50:30 <marix> hey guys,  whats up?
Nov 26 03:50:48 <pctechnerd> random poster huh?  dgMoney?  ever seen the program?
Nov 26 03:51:18 <pctechnerd> he advised me that he got one from a user here, and i might want to look here because they were friendly.  aparently he wasn't talking about you two
Nov 26 03:52:36 <marix> seems like doucheness follows the g1,  the xda dev forms are crawling w/ trolls now.
Nov 26 03:54:24 <JJ|Laptop> jasta: with an upgraded radio (from 1 to 3) android now runs a lot better
Nov 26 03:54:42 <Leeds> pctechnerd: you obviously only joined this channel to ask for invites... if you'd asked once, nobody would have batted an eyelid, but you asked repeatedly after not getting the answer you wanted.  my last word on the subject
Nov 26 03:55:07 <unix_infidel> an email is far more effective than irc spam.
Nov 26 03:55:37 <pctechnerd> well I asked multiple times over a period of one day, because different people come to this room at different times.  Or am I wrong and this is someone's house that they pay rent at?
Nov 26 03:55:46 <pctechnerd> how is asking a total of 5 times over a period of one day spam?
Nov 26 03:55:56 <Disconnect> asking here, once, is spam.
Nov 26 03:55:59 <pctechnerd> and also inbetween that helping people with questions they had
Nov 26 03:56:12 <ttuttle> pctechnerd: Asking for invites is spam, period.
Nov 26 03:56:53 <pctechnerd> i'm sorry i offended the mighty IRC gods.  Now i remember why I don't use IRC much.  you guys are a bunch of arrogant pricks
Nov 26 03:56:56 <ttuttle> pctechnerd: No matter how often, no matter how nice you are in between.
Nov 26 03:57:01 <Disconnect> yep. bye now!
Nov 26 03:57:05 <pctechnerd> wow your code is so 1337.
Nov 26 03:57:45 <marix> lol,  drama and i just got here
Nov 26 03:57:47 <pctechnerd> have fun in your basement.  hope that picture of princess leah keeps you going for another few weeks
Nov 26 03:57:52 <pctechnerd> bye
Nov 26 03:57:56 <marix> peace
Nov 26 03:57:57 <ttuttle> pctechnerd: have a great night
Nov 26 03:57:59 <ttuttle> damn
Nov 26 03:58:00 <ttuttle> missed.
Nov 26 03:58:04 <ttuttle> what a jackass.
Nov 26 03:58:07 <ttuttle> can we ban him?
Nov 26 03:58:22 <Disconnect> only @google.com opers, so .. no. not until its a community channel :)
Nov 26 03:58:27 <marix> anyone have a working irc client for the g1?
Nov 26 03:58:41 <ttuttle> Or until we convince someone from google... just a sec.
Nov 26 03:58:45 <Disconnect> marix: i've heard of a couple in testing
Nov 26 03:58:50 <Leeds> marix: there are at least a couple under development - I don't think any have been released yet
Nov 26 03:58:54 <geist> we can storm the google campus
Nov 26 03:58:59 <ttuttle> geist: Please don't.
Nov 26 03:59:04 <Disconnect> i think for release you need to use connectbot to irssi :)
Nov 26 03:59:09 <geist> i'm sure they're too lazy with their free food and massages
Nov 26 03:59:11 * ttuttle likes connectbot to irssi.
Nov 26 03:59:19 <ttuttle> geist: The massages aren't free, there's a co-pay :P
Nov 26 03:59:22 <geist> they wont put up much of a fight
Nov 26 03:59:34 <JJ|Laptop> ssh to irssi :p
Nov 26 03:59:44 <Disconnect> thats what connectbot does
Nov 26 03:59:48 <Leeds> geist: the food is healthy... they're all supermen! (and women)
Nov 26 03:59:52 <ttuttle> The benefit of connectbot to screen to irssi is your IRC stays open even if your connection drops (which happens all the time).
Nov 26 04:00:13 <d03boy> :\\
Nov 26 04:02:24 <Nafai> Is there a control or escape on the G1?
Nov 26 04:02:25 <ttuttle> Hmm... pctechnerd's ident seems familiar.
Nov 26 04:02:38 <ttuttle> Nafai: In connectbot?  Single press of trackball is control, double press is esc.
Nov 26 04:02:42 <unix_infidel> if you had to guess, what would you say was the most common web services framework for android apps?>
Nov 26 04:03:00 <Nafai> ttuttle: Cool.  Thanks.  Just learning more while I wait for my G1 to be shipped :)
Nov 26 04:03:08 <ttuttle> Nafai: No problem!  And congrats ;-)
Nov 26 04:03:28 <unix_infidel> Nafai: there isnt a t-mobile store near you?
Nov 26 04:03:52 <ttuttle> Wow, my DNS is horribly slow tonight :(
Nov 26 04:04:05 <Nafai> unix_infidel: They aren't sold in stores here because 3G isn't yet deployed here
Nov 26 04:04:41 <unix_infidel> Nafai: bummer.
Nov 26 04:04:43 <marixg1> test test
Nov 26 04:04:55 <marix> sweet,  i found a java irc client that works
Nov 26 04:04:59 <Nafai> unix_infidel: Yeah, but I should have it by next Wednesday
Nov 26 04:05:01 <marix> http://www.android-unleashed.com/2008/11/howto-internet-relay-chat-irc-on-your.html
Nov 26 04:05:08 <marix> go there on your android phone
Nov 26 04:05:27 <marixg1> it has a bilt in applet you can use
Nov 26 04:05:40 <Disconnect> meebo does irc too i believe
Nov 26 04:05:59 <unix_infidel> Disconnect: a mobile mibbit client would be awesome.  I should talk to axod about it :-P
Nov 26 04:06:26 <d03boy> for christs sake..
Nov 26 04:06:35 <d03boy> i have eclipse open and im making a damn irc client
Nov 26 04:06:54 <ttuttle> d03boy: Don't forget to make it resistant to network disconnects...
Nov 26 04:06:57 <marixg1> does mibbit connect through port 80
Nov 26 04:07:19 <d03boy> ttuttle, i think thats going to depend on the server
Nov 26 04:07:33 <unix_infidel> marixg1: yea.
Nov 26 04:07:48 <ttuttle> d03boy: (It's going to drop out *constantly*.  You really need some sort of resumable proxy system to make it work reliably under changing network conditions.)
Nov 26 04:07:49 <marix> nice,  i'll have to utilize that at work...
Nov 26 04:07:52 <unix_infidel> well, mibbit runs it's own web server that pulls content from a persistent IRC connection.
Nov 26 04:07:59 <ttuttle> :%s/utilize/use/g
Nov 26 04:08:24 <unix_infidel> if you increase the disconnect window you've got a fairly semi-persistent connection.
Nov 26 04:08:40 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: ...until your IP changes several times as you jump between EDGE and wifi.
Nov 26 04:08:42 <d03boy> irc connections typically stay open quite a while
Nov 26 04:08:58 <d03boy> hmm
Nov 26 04:09:00 <unix_infidel> ttuttle: i'm referring to registered mibbit users.
Nov 26 04:09:10 <d03boy> so basically I need a client that will connect to a BNC
Nov 26 04:09:11 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: Oh, okay.
Nov 26 04:09:22 <ttuttle> d03boy: I use irssi-proxy (it's built in to irssi).
Nov 26 04:09:28 <ttuttle> d03boy: Yeah, I think support for that would be very useful.
Nov 26 04:10:00 <unix_infidel> ttuttle: though multiuser mobile web chat isnt very well done yet imho.
Nov 26 04:10:17 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: /me doesn't get the "web" bit.
Nov 26 04:11:36 <unix_infidel> ttuttle: meh, it could be done over any protocol, as long as you went with some sort of ws-reliablemessaging.
Nov 26 04:11:40 <marix> http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.freenode.net&channel=%23android
Nov 26 04:11:46 <marix> heres teh site you should go to
Nov 26 04:11:57 <marix> its full screen and no scrolling
Nov 26 04:12:14 <ttuttle|mibbit> Wow, it works.
Nov 26 04:12:15 <marix> just book mark that bad boy
Nov 26 04:12:22 <ttuttle|mibbit> How well does it work on a G1?
Nov 26 04:12:26 <marix> its nice and easy
Nov 26 04:12:43 <d03boy> i wish i actually had a G1..
Nov 26 04:12:46 <unix_infidel> marix: i'm pretty sure he means how decent is the text rendering.
Nov 26 04:12:59 <ttuttle> d03boy: Have you ordered one?
Nov 26 04:13:02 <KNY> whoa
Nov 26 04:13:50 <d03boy> ttuttle, its nto available in my area yet
Nov 26 04:13:54 <ttuttle> d03boy: :(
Nov 26 04:13:58 <ttuttle> d03boy: Drive somewhere else.
Nov 26 04:14:04 <JJ|Laptop> knwo what really sucks?
Nov 26 04:14:06 <JJ|Laptop> *know
Nov 26 04:14:09 <marix> hopefully this chat room is a bit less noob filled than some of the android forums
Nov 26 04:14:14 <d03boy> black holes?
Nov 26 04:14:25 <JJ|Laptop> i jsut flashed my phone and forgot to backup my contacts and ims
Nov 26 04:14:25 <marix> its horrid having people ask how to
Nov 26 04:14:34 <ttuttle> marix: not by much. there are some smart people here, but also a lot of noobs.
Nov 26 04:14:45 <marix> "jailbreak" their phones when they ahve no idea what its even for
Nov 26 04:14:51 <ttuttle> marix: most of the noobs aren't dumb, though, just learning.
Nov 26 04:14:57 <unix_infidel> this coming from the carnegie mellon kid.
Nov 26 04:15:05 <ttuttle> marix: oh, i *hate* that.
Nov 26 04:15:07 <ttuttle> :P
Nov 26 04:15:14 <marix> :)
Nov 26 04:15:22 <ttuttle> ;)
Nov 26 04:15:36 <JJ|Laptop> damn...
Nov 26 04:15:46 <JJ|Laptop> i need to re-hack my htc touch vogue
Nov 26 04:17:46 <KNY> jesus. someone just emailed me to ask if he could write applications for the G1, so I linked him to code.google.com/android and then he says "Hey dude give me your number because if I need help I can ask u"
Nov 26 04:17:48 <KNY> not a chance, mate
Nov 26 04:18:06 <KNY> I told him I'll give him my number as soon as he tells me where to send my invoice, haha
Nov 26 04:18:44 <ttuttle> KNY: /me does not like it when people are clingy like that.
Nov 26 04:18:58 <KNY> ttuttle, that's what I get for being helpful, I guess
Nov 26 04:19:17 <offby1> I would never help someone who spells "you" as "u".
Nov 26 04:19:19 <ttuttle> KNY: eh.
Nov 26 04:19:43 <ttuttle> offby1: /me generally dislikes it when people use "text speak" on IRC.
Nov 26 04:19:47 <Nafai> offby1: I'm joining the G1 club :)
Nov 26 04:20:00 <KNY> offby1, by followed it up with another email saying this: "Hey dude can you add like the TV shows just like we enter the tv show and it works or u can't do that"
Nov 26 04:20:02 <ttuttle> offby1: I mean, I go to the effort of typing reasonably grammatical sentences, with (usually) proper capitalization...
Nov 26 04:20:08 <ttuttle> KNY: Wow, what an idiot.
Nov 26 04:20:23 <KNY> ttuttle, yeah, and that's probably the fifth email like that I've gotten from him
Nov 26 04:20:28 <KNY> I don't even know what he's requesting
Nov 26 04:20:34 <KNY> time to just stop replying, I guess
Nov 26 04:20:54 <ttuttle> KNY: You could just tell him you don't have time.
Nov 26 04:21:48 <KNY> ttuttle, you'll like this: "O dude un cool weel can you add fun stuff" "I'll do my best. Cheers, KNY" "Thanks dude"
Nov 26 04:21:58 <KNY> same guy
Nov 26 04:21:59 <KNY> haha
Nov 26 04:22:02 * ttuttle can't even parse that.
Nov 26 04:22:07 <ttuttle> "un cool weel"?
Nov 26 04:22:22 <KNY> yeah, my brain threw a syntax error
Nov 26 04:22:26 <ttuttle> Oh, I get it.
Nov 26 04:22:33 <ttuttle> "Oh, dude, uncool.  Well, can you add fun stuff?"
Nov 26 04:22:39 <KNY> ahhh
Nov 26 04:23:06 <eugene> hmm
Nov 26 04:23:16 <KNY> let me try to find what he was replying to (everything comes in as a new message because he doesn't use subjects and so everything is just subject: RE:
Nov 26 04:23:40 <JJ|Laptop> KNY: that's just sad...
Nov 26 04:23:50 <JJ|Laptop> i'm afraid to see what apps he would make
Nov 26 04:24:01 <KNY> JJ|Laptop, "Well because I went to that web site and I tried 2 download it like the words were on the chart and I clicked them and it said could not download because it was like it said could not download because it was not with the phone"
Nov 26 04:24:08 <KNY> I don't think we need to worry about that anytime soon
Nov 26 04:24:27 <JJ|Laptop> lol
Nov 26 04:24:39 <offby1> KNY: which app is yours?
Nov 26 04:24:46 <KNY> ttuttle, ah, here's what was uncool: I told him that this was impossible -- "Hey make one where you can like listen to the radio,just like we put in the radio station but make it easy plez and make sure it work"
Nov 26 04:25:01 <KNY> offby1, Mileage and G1 Central (he was asking about G1 Central)
Nov 26 04:25:10 <JJ|Laptop> i won;t hold my breath to see "it is der weel!!" in the apps store
Nov 26 04:25:36 <Leeds> so he was just firing random app ideas at you and expecting you to say "yes, certainly, I will have that app written, tested and available by teatime, old chap"?
Nov 26 04:25:39 <KNY> I should walk this guy through hello world just for the comedy value
Nov 26 04:25:44 <ttuttle> KNY: No.
Nov 26 04:25:52 <ttuttle> KNY: Please, save your sanity.  (Or what's left of it.)
Nov 26 04:25:55 <offby1> never ran into G1 central.
Nov 26 04:26:00 * offby1 left his phone at work, so ...
Nov 26 04:26:04 <KNY> offby1, it's relatively new.
Nov 26 04:26:04 <ttuttle> offby1: :(
Nov 26 04:26:12 <offby1> *shrug*  I'll get it tomorrow
Nov 26 04:26:12 <KNY> and unless you use GrandCentral, I don't think you'd care
Nov 26 04:26:25 <JJ|Laptop> lol
Nov 26 04:26:26 <offby1> KNY: nah, I generally use PennStation
Nov 26 04:26:27 <offby1> :)
Nov 26 04:26:38 <KNY> offby1, and even if you don't, feel free to email me multiple times demanding I give you and invitation that I don't have
Nov 26 04:26:41 * KNY sighs
Nov 26 04:26:43 <KNY> offby1, haha
Nov 26 04:26:58 <KNY> I was in Penn Station earlier this summer
Nov 26 04:27:02 <Leeds> KNY: I will perform sexual favours in return for an invite?
Nov 26 04:27:10 <JJ|Laptop> pennstation?
Nov 26 04:27:16 <KNY> JJ|Laptop, in NYC
Nov 26 04:27:20 <JJ|Laptop> aahh
Nov 26 04:27:26 <JJ|Laptop> i thought it was simillar to grand central
Nov 26 04:27:57 <KNY> Leeds, yeah sure, let me send you one. I have tons!
Nov 26 04:28:01 <offby1> JJ|Laptop: How wrong you are!  Grand Central is a beautiful architectural gem; Penn Station is like a cheap office with buzzing fluorescent lights
Nov 26 04:28:18 <Leeds> and none of them compare to St. Pancreas!
Nov 26 04:28:26 <KNY> offby1, at least it's relatively convenient to times square
Nov 26 04:28:40 <marix> check check
Nov 26 04:28:42 <marix> test test
Nov 26 04:28:43 <marix> etc
Nov 26 04:29:13 <offby1> KNY: pfft
Nov 26 04:29:38 <offby1> *thump* *thump*  Is this thing on?
Nov 26 04:30:08 <marix> sorry,  just testing to see how long it can go before disconnecting
Nov 26 04:30:16 <d03boy> lalala
Nov 26 04:30:24 <marix> looks like its solid unless the device goes to black screen
Nov 26 04:32:44 <d03boy> what exactly are you testing?
Nov 26 04:33:44 <JJ|Laptop> d03boy: probably that web irc
Nov 26 04:34:32 <marix> yup
Nov 26 04:34:37 <marix> it kees on updating it
Nov 26 04:34:44 <marix> even if you are composing an email
Nov 26 04:34:52 <marix> or if you open a new tab in your browser
Nov 26 04:34:55 <marix> it works really great
Nov 26 04:35:20 <marix> except you cannot scroll up to view old messages and cant scroll through theusers field
Nov 26 04:37:43 <JJ|Laptop> lol
Nov 26 04:37:44 <offby1> damn, I would leave my phone at work the day an IRC client is released.
Nov 26 04:39:58 <marix> its not really released
Nov 26 04:39:59 <d03boy> why would you leave it at work
Nov 26 04:40:04 <marix> http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.freenode.net&channel=%23android
Nov 26 04:40:09 <marix> just go there in teh browser
Nov 26 04:40:10 <Leeds> released in an iphoner-version-1 way
Nov 26 04:40:22 <marix> lol yea
Nov 26 04:40:28 <marix> you know "real apps
Nov 26 04:40:30 <marix> "
Nov 26 04:40:53 <d03boy> i'm almost considering running a server and creating a client side app that connects through it
Nov 26 04:41:09 <d03boy> lots of complications with that
Nov 26 04:41:19 <benley> d03boy: I'm working on that
Nov 26 04:41:26 <marix> im hoping for a really nice remote desktop app
Nov 26 04:41:29 <marix> that would make my day
Nov 26 04:41:38 <benley> d03boy: the backend already exists, called cognetd.  There's a cognet frontend for the hiptop platform.
Nov 26 04:41:52 <Leeds> marix: vnc?
Nov 26 04:42:15 <marix> do they have a vnc app for android?
Nov 26 04:42:28 <Leeds> not yet...
Nov 26 04:42:42 <marix> i had a swank one on my blackberry
Nov 26 04:42:52 <unix_infidel> tethering > VNC (imho)
Nov 26 04:42:56 <marix> but the pearl's processor was too slow for it to render worth a damn
Nov 26 04:43:24 <BHSPitMonkey> unix_infidel, how are tethering and VNC even alike enough for comparison?
Nov 26 04:43:26 <marix> i agree,  tethering would be a killer app, esp if it were wireless
Nov 26 04:43:47 <marix> your phone oculd be a walkign hotspot
Nov 26 04:44:39 <unix_infidel> BHSPitMonkey: your unix_infidel parser is broken.
Nov 26 04:45:55 <BHSPitMonkey> unix_infidel, I think unix_infidel is broken
Nov 26 04:46:12 <KNY> how do you folks handle developing an app while wanting to use it? (and not constantly lose your database)
Nov 26 04:46:24 <KNY> BHSPitMonkey, he was saying he'd rather have a tethering app than a VNC app
Nov 26 04:47:04 <BHSPitMonkey> KNY, I stand firm in my belief that unix_infidel is broken
Nov 26 04:47:15 * p_quarles +1s BHSPitMonkey 
Nov 26 04:47:19 <KNY> patches welcome
Nov 26 04:47:26 <KNY> ;)
Nov 26 04:47:43 <BHSPitMonkey> diff unix_infidel BHSPitMonkey
Nov 26 04:47:50 <BHSPitMonkey> there's your miracle patch!
Nov 26 04:47:53 <KNY> haha
Nov 26 04:48:15 <unix_infidel> f(s) = s
Nov 26 04:48:41 <marix> yo shit is broke!
Nov 26 04:49:16 <unix_infidel> apparently everyone elses unix_infidel parser is working splendidly.
Nov 26 04:49:33 <marix> tru tru
Nov 26 04:49:51 <marix> did you guys try out opera mini yet
Nov 26 04:50:28 <KNY> marix, I did for a bit
Nov 26 04:50:51 <marix> thoughts?
Nov 26 04:51:20 <KNY> I like the built-in one better
Nov 26 04:51:36 <p_quarles> opera mini isn't touch screen friendly at all
Nov 26 04:51:37 <KNY> but I just mainly use the browser for quick google searches since I don't have 3G
Nov 26 04:52:06 <BHSPitMonkey> "threege"
Nov 26 04:52:10 <marix> yea,  i'm on edge sometimes and find opera mini alot quicker for common sites like msnbc etc
Nov 26 04:52:25 <KNY> yeah the rendering is faster
Nov 26 04:52:28 <p_quarles> it's very fast -- but it doesn't work with Android's ui
Nov 26 04:52:37 <KNY> yeah, it's not native at all
Nov 26 04:52:38 <marix> but i think chrome lite,  can i call it that?,  is a better browser
Nov 26 04:52:57 <KNY> their URL entry box cracked me up so bad when I first saw it
Nov 26 04:53:10 <marix> yea,  got all gihugen
Nov 26 04:53:15 * BHSPitMonkey ports IE5 to Android
Nov 26 04:53:31 <KNY> marix, fill_parent/fill_parent
Nov 26 04:53:48 <p_quarles> BHSPitMonkey: Your phone may be infected with viruses; click here to scan
Nov 26 04:54:22 <KNY> p_quarles, it definitely has a virus; he just said he installed IE5 ;)
Nov 26 04:54:23 <marix> kny you are geeking out on me a bit too far
Nov 26 04:54:50 <unix_infidel> anyone know of a place that documents all the limitations of the j2me runner?
Nov 26 04:55:54 <marix> i havn't had any luck w/ it
Nov 26 04:56:03 <marix> i tried importing that j2me zelda port
Nov 26 04:56:06 <marix> but no go
Nov 26 04:57:24 <marix> http://zeldamobile.gorthwogh.net/Downloads.php
Nov 26 04:57:30 <marix> chiggity check it out
Nov 26 05:00:17 <BHSPitMonkey> p_quarles, omg thank you, I had no idea
Nov 26 05:01:04 <Lieu10ant> hey
Nov 26 05:01:26 <Lieu10ant> someone say my name
Nov 26 05:01:51 <p_quarles> BHSPitMonkey: 'sokay; give me money and I'll fix it
Nov 26 05:01:57 <marix> when noone is around you say baby i love you
Nov 26 05:02:32 <KNY> Lieu10ant,
Nov 26 05:02:45 <Lieu10ant> nothing happened :(
Nov 26 05:02:54 <Lieu10ant> do it without the capital L
Nov 26 05:03:00 <Lieu10ant> lowercase
Nov 26 05:03:32 <marix> well,  aren't you needy
Nov 26 05:03:37 <Lieu10ant> plz lol
Nov 26 05:03:49 <marix> Lieu10ant ?
Nov 26 05:03:55 <Lieu10ant> im tryna test something
Nov 26 05:04:16 <Lieu10ant> 1 more time plz
Nov 26 05:04:16 <marix> Lieu10an is this what you are hoping for>
Nov 26 05:04:25 <marix> Lieu10ant so needy
Nov 26 05:04:43 <Lieu10ant> wtf its not giving me a notice :(
Nov 26 05:04:46 <Lieu10ant> 1 sec
Nov 26 05:05:05 <Lieu10ant> k do it now plz n thank you.
Nov 26 05:06:12 <tarelerulz> Is there a video player on G1 for stuff beside you tube ?  If so where would one look up infor about it or get it
Nov 26 05:06:59 <marix> the market has one
Nov 26 05:07:02 <marix> it's ok...
Nov 26 05:07:04 <p_quarles> tarelerulz: there are a couple mp4 players in the marketplace; in-browser flash is in the works
Nov 26 05:07:08 <marix> also you can stream some video
Nov 26 05:07:13 <marix> via the browser
Nov 26 05:09:04 <tarelerulz> What about say if you copy one of your own movies to the local drive of the thing?  could you want movie on the stick thing
Nov 26 05:09:20 <unix_infidel> tarelerulz: iirc, they only h264
Nov 26 05:10:47 <tarelerulz> unix_infidel:  So you can play  videos in h264  on the G1 ?
Nov 26 05:11:11 <Leeds> sure
Nov 26 05:11:32 <unix_infidel> what's the app in marketplace that plays video?
Nov 26 05:12:00 <Leeds> video player :-)
Nov 26 05:13:59 <tarelerulz> Where is the link to  android store?  I look and I did not find media player . I read and see youtube vidoes showing ,but not find anything on it .
Nov 26 05:14:44 <Leeds> there is no link - the Market is an application on your G1
Nov 26 05:17:37 <tarelerulz> Leeds ,  How would one  look into what the g1 has before say buying it
Nov 26 05:18:01 <tarelerulz> If it really does have media player that can play h264 and it easy to get then I am there
Nov 26 05:18:23 <Leeds> go to the store and look?
Nov 26 05:18:43 <Leeds> there is no video player included, except the youtube one, but there are video playing libraries - including h264 codecs
Nov 26 05:18:45 <marix> agreed
Nov 26 05:19:00 <marix> so go to the market on the demo device and install the app
Nov 26 05:19:09 <marix> then slip your sd card in and check to see if it will play
Nov 26 05:19:20 <Leeds> there are at least a couple of video players available for free download which will play h264 video... the only issue to be aware of is that you might need to use a relatively low bitrate
Nov 26 05:19:22 <marix> any tmo rep would let you do this,  they make their money in sales
Nov 26 05:20:57 <tarelerulz> I don't have one to check.  I was just wondering if I could get some real info on what I really can do .  So I know what I am getting before I get one.  Media player is big feature to me and that and the phone action .  If it can do those two thing I will run out and buy one when I get money
Nov 26 05:21:14 <benley> yes, it plays h264.
Nov 26 05:21:26 <marix> it will only get better from here
Nov 26 05:21:38 <benley> seems like mostly the same resolution/encodings as the iphone work on the g1 for videos.
Nov 26 05:21:46 <marix> yup
Nov 26 05:22:55 <Leeds> yeah, pretty much AFAIK
Nov 26 05:23:59 <tarelerulz> I haven seen a lot of cool app for it like the barcode reader .  Have any you guys explore what apps you can get for it?
Nov 26 05:24:26 <benley> yes
Nov 26 05:24:35 <benley> there's a frickin bajillion things in the market now
Nov 26 05:24:35 <marix> they just released a 3d benchmark utility for it
Nov 26 05:24:46 <benley> oh yeah?
Nov 26 05:24:56 <marix> it can produce gamecube era graphics
Nov 26 05:25:03 <marix> at 25 fps
Nov 26 05:25:19 <benley> call me when it runs mario kart :)
Nov 26 05:25:23 <marix> its called neocore
Nov 26 05:25:27 <marix> you should check it out
Nov 26 05:25:35 * benley searches market
Nov 26 05:25:48 <tarelerulz> I would like to see some as cool as  itunes for it.
Nov 26 05:26:09 <benley> tarelerulz: the music player isn't as slick as itunes, but it's usable.
Nov 26 05:26:13 <marix> i also read that the 3d stack for android isn't very mature and that they expect to double the fps sooner or later
Nov 26 05:26:25 * benley installs neocore
Nov 26 05:26:33 <marix> tarelerulz plenty of audio player apps are coming to the market aswell
Nov 26 05:26:46 <Leeds> there should be better music apps along sooner or later... unlike the iphone, it's perfectly reasonable to use a third-party music app
Nov 26 05:27:05 <tarelerulz> What about the homebrew scene for it ?
Nov 26 05:27:16 <Leeds> if I ever get around to actually doing some android coding, a dedicated audiobook/audiomagazine player is on my to-do list
Nov 26 05:27:19 <marix> the whole thing is a homebrew scene
Nov 26 05:27:21 <Leeds> what homebrew?  it's an open platform
Nov 26 05:27:47 <Leeds> there's a small hacking scene, mainly based around xda-developers, I think
Nov 26 05:28:11 <BHSPitMonkey> Leeds, open platform, touting a closed phone on the market
Nov 26 05:28:26 <Leeds> BHSPitMonkey: the platform is not the device
Nov 26 05:28:26 <benley> so far there doesn't seem to be any reason to mess with phone OS haking yet
Nov 26 05:28:34 <BHSPitMonkey> Leeds, for now, it is
Nov 26 05:28:41 <pawalls> benley, Tethering?
Nov 26 05:28:43 <Leeds> benley: the only thing has been getting and/or keeping root access, really
Nov 26 05:28:49 <benley> pawalls: does that work?
Nov 26 05:28:54 <pawalls> benley, uid 0 gets you the ability to do WiFi tethering w/ iptables
Nov 26 05:28:59 <BHSPitMonkey> until there's another phone out, Android == G1
Nov 26 05:29:01 <benley> I haven't heard of anyone actually adding these features yet.
Nov 26 05:29:15 <tarelerulz> When I said homebrew I meant people like us not companies
Nov 26 05:29:37 <benley> tarelerulz: you can run your own apps on the thing.  no restrictions on that.
Nov 26 05:29:41 <pawalls> benley, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?s=dcd850619598d9dae58abe47153402ca&t=444004
Nov 26 05:29:46 <jasta> sup phil
Nov 26 05:29:57 <marix> did you find the neocore app benley?
Nov 26 05:30:00 <Leeds> tarelerulz: you can download the SDK and start coding immediately... I think there's a $25 registration fee for the market, but otherwise there are very few restrictions - and people can load apps from random websites anyway, not just from the market
Nov 26 05:30:03 <benley> marix: yep, it's running :)
Nov 26 05:30:25 <Leeds> and the fee is a gatekeeping thing, just to stop them being flooded with requests, AFAIK
Nov 26 05:31:11 <tarelerulz> Leeds, I wish I was coder or I would look into that. right now compile is as close as I get to coding and maybe noob python tutorial
Nov 26 05:31:43 <Leeds> BHSPitMonkey: there will be other devices in the next few months, there's always the emulator, and there are quite a few devices out there which have been hacked - to a greater or lesser extent - to run Android
Nov 26 05:31:50 <benley> marix: pretty impressive
Nov 26 05:32:01 <marix> yea,  for java...
Nov 26 05:32:04 <marix> :)
Nov 26 05:32:15 <Leeds> my main question on the 3D stuff is how badly it's going to destroy my battery
Nov 26 05:32:20 <Leeds> marix: don't be so sure it's Java
Nov 26 05:32:31 <marix> it has to be
Nov 26 05:32:32 <pawalls> benley, There are a lot of interesting hacks on droidsans.com as well.
Nov 26 05:32:43 <marix> every android app on the market is written in java
Nov 26 05:32:44 <Leeds> no it doesn't ;-)
Nov 26 05:33:06 <marix> it gets a little warm running it on loop
Nov 26 05:33:10 <pawalls> benley, Accelerometer based rotation, etc.
Nov 26 05:33:18 <Leeds> marix: I don't have my logs to hand, but people were talking about it a few hours ago and seemed pretty certain it was at least partially native code
Nov 26 05:33:42 <marix> id guess batt life will be similar to video playback
Nov 26 05:33:43 <pawalls> benley, And the multi-touch demos show some promise.
Nov 26 05:33:56 <pawalls> benley, Anyway.. just saying there are *some* reasons to want a jailbroken G1 :-P
Nov 26 05:34:20 <marix> leeds,  maybe qualcomm has its hand in the cookie jar then.
Nov 26 05:34:35 <tarelerulz> What would be cool is player that supported ,  mulit audio , subtitles  . All ways wanted to watch anime on portable and have real softsubs .
Nov 26 05:35:00 <Leeds> marix: google/android people were involved in that discussion and didn't have any problem with the idea, as I read it
Nov 26 05:35:04 <benley> marix: you don't have to break things to run native code
Nov 26 05:35:26 <marix> the objective was to put everything behind the java VM sandbox
Nov 26 05:35:30 <Leeds> nope
Nov 26 05:35:39 <marix> maybe not break things, but bypass something for sure
Nov 26 05:35:40 <benley> marix: you can even include native binaries in an apk.  It's just not particularly encouraged.
Nov 26 05:35:46 <Leeds> wish I had my logs from earlier on - they're at home, I'm not
Nov 26 05:36:02 <marix> leeds, ill look for it,  thanks
Nov 26 05:36:05 <benley> no really, it's not forbidden.  There's just no guarantee of forward compatibility.
Nov 26 05:36:22 <marix> so its not documented in the sdk then
Nov 26 05:36:30 <benley> right.
Nov 26 05:36:35 <Leeds> lots of things aren't documented... yet
Nov 26 05:36:39 <marix> lol
Nov 26 05:36:58 <Leeds> I've seen google folks suggest that documenting stuff would be a way for external people to contribute
Nov 26 05:37:26 <marix> if you run that benchmark w/ sound on it drops about 5 fps
Nov 26 05:37:35 <Leeds> I noticed that...
Nov 26 05:38:02 <BHSPitMonkey> lol
Nov 26 05:38:14 <marix> and the sound is just a simple overlay,  no calls at all
Nov 26 05:38:14 <marix> :(
Nov 26 05:38:22 <BHSPitMonkey> of course they hand off documenting the product to the community :P
Nov 26 05:38:31 <rip> is there any way to test pvÅ› open core test framework ?
Nov 26 05:38:46 <rip> has any one in the group tried ?
Nov 26 05:41:25 <RyeBrye> Umm... on what planet would Gasbot be worth $7 a year?
Nov 26 05:42:10 <marix> im not having any luck finding logs or discussion of logs.  Was this your personal work or was it on a forum somewhere?
Nov 26 05:42:39 <marix> hey ryebrye,  you're famous!
Nov 26 05:43:00 <marix> doesn't gasbot pull from a free service anyway?
Nov 26 05:43:01 <RyeBrye> What logs?
Nov 26 05:43:27 <marix> bently leeds and i were discussing the possiblity of the neocore demo not being all java
Nov 26 05:43:38 <RyeBrye> Oh. yeah, andyross discovered that
Nov 26 05:43:40 <RyeBrye> infobot logs
Nov 26 05:43:41 <infobot> All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Nov 26 05:43:54 <Leeds> marix: this channel earlier today
Nov 26 05:44:03 <Leeds> ah, I didn't know infobot was here!
Nov 26 05:44:03 <marix> ah,  i see
Nov 26 05:44:11 <RyeBrye> infobot neocore
Nov 26 05:44:24 <Leeds> infobot android
Nov 26 05:44:25 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible
Nov 26 05:44:27 <RyeBrye> infobot neocore is a cool demo by Qualcomm that cheats by using native code
Nov 26 05:44:28 <infobot> RyeBrye: okay
Nov 26 05:44:56 <Leeds> infobot Leeds
Nov 26 05:44:57 <infobot> i heard leeds is a bloke called Richard making bras in Hong Kong, or a bloke called Richard, or a rubbish footie team, or better than Google, or a Solaris freeware and Perl expert, or a regexp expert, or been fired from the bra company, or not my problem, or a very sociable guy, or a sexy alian, or the manual, or a whining butthead
Nov 26 05:45:36 <Leeds> some of those factlets are true...
Nov 26 05:45:39 <marix> whining butthead is correct!
Nov 26 05:46:02 <KNY> RyeBrye, just write up a GasFree and that would be the end of that :)
Nov 26 05:46:33 <Leeds> marix: thanks, appreciate it
Nov 26 05:46:43 <Leeds> anyway, see 17:33.33 in the log for November 25th
Nov 26 05:47:13 <marix> leeds,  looking at it now,  thanks
Nov 26 05:48:38 <Leeds> infobot: botsnack
Nov 26 05:48:39 <infobot> aw, gee, Leeds
Nov 26 05:49:30 * DarkriftX sets is so that everythign he says in here begins with a space so when he talks the logs look really funny
Nov 26 05:49:32 <DarkriftX>  lol
Nov 26 05:50:09 <KNY> DarkriftX, why would they look funny? It would just be like you're never here
Nov 26 05:50:20 <Leeds> infobot moonslap marix
Nov 26 05:50:21 * infobot nabs the moon and broadsides marix with the sea of tranquility
Nov 26 05:50:26 <DarkriftX> if i was talking to soemone, they would appear to talk to themselves
Nov 26 05:50:30 <KNY> though people (such as myself) would be replying to a phantom
Nov 26 05:50:32 <Leeds> I'll stop now...
Nov 26 05:50:33 <KNY> heh
Nov 26 05:50:38 <DarkriftX> exactly
Nov 26 05:50:51 <marix> infobot you're a jerk
Nov 26 05:50:52 <infobot> I know you are but what am I?
Nov 26 05:51:04 <marix> oh snap,  the peewee herman defence
Nov 26 05:51:08 <marix> didn't see that coming
Nov 26 05:51:49 <tarelerulz> Is there an music player that reads id3 tags so You can search by artist  , album , ect ? if you put say 1gb of music on the thing
Nov 26 05:52:31 <Leeds> tarelerulz: yes, the built-in one does that
Nov 26 05:53:40 <tarelerulz> The main thing I think is cool more then the open nature it is not need some kind of software just to put songs on it.  a lot to be said for drag and drop .
Nov 26 05:53:44 <Leeds> lots of users have cards which are a lot bigger than 1GB too :-)
Nov 26 05:53:52 <Leeds> nope, just put the music on the card and away you go
Nov 26 05:54:15 <lgbr> What's the best way to make an error popup?
Nov 26 05:54:24 <marix> tarelerulz,  you should just buy one.  worst case,  you hate it and sell it on ebay for a couple hundred extra.
Nov 26 05:54:40 <KNY> lgbr, AlertDialog.Builder(context).create();
Nov 26 05:54:56 <marix> lgbr submerge the g1 in water wile running your app
Nov 26 05:55:05 <tarelerulz> Leeds, haha 1gb of music is small for most people now days.  Of random music even , easy to if you get all the stuff of group
Nov 26 05:55:20 <lgbr> marix: hahaha
Nov 26 05:55:23 <lgbr> KNY: Thanks
Nov 26 05:55:26 <KNY> tarelerulz, I bought an 8GB card for $20
Nov 26 05:55:29 <tarelerulz> Main thing I don't feel cool about is sign up for two years.
Nov 26 05:55:39 <KNY> tarelerulz, I bought mine out of contract
Nov 26 05:55:45 <KNY> of course, I paid $400, but meh
Nov 26 05:55:46 <marix> tarelerulz it supports up to 16gb cards,  which are hot swapable
Nov 26 05:55:50 <meoblast001> ok im starting to get serious about porting stuff
Nov 26 05:55:57 <marix> i got mine off craigs list for 270
Nov 26 05:55:59 <meoblast001> is it possible to port an SDL aplication to android?
Nov 26 05:56:06 <Leeds> KNY: so the actual price for an unlocked, out-of-contract G1 is $423 or so?
Nov 26 05:56:18 <tarelerulz> KNY , who you go though for phone ?
Nov 26 05:56:22 <Leeds> I'm tempted to start importing them :-)
Nov 26 05:56:34 <KNY> Leeds, it was $432 USD after tax, I believe
Nov 26 05:56:43 <KNY> tarelerulz, the t-mobile store
Nov 26 05:56:44 <KNY> in person
Nov 26 05:56:51 <Leeds> okay, and an unlock code costs about $23, I believe
Nov 26 05:57:25 <marix> does the european g1 work on most networks over there?
Nov 26 05:57:28 <KNY> just walk in, say you want a G1 out of contract, they add the cost to your bill, you walk out and get shipped a phone if you're not in a 3G area
Nov 26 05:57:36 <KNY> if you're in a 3G area, you walk out with phone in hand
Nov 26 05:58:02 <KNY> Leeds, what did you pay?
Nov 26 05:58:23 <Leeds> $4300 ish, before trade-in
Nov 26 05:58:47 <Leeds> slightly over US$550
Nov 26 05:59:00 <marix> infobot tell me more
Nov 26 05:59:08 <meoblast001> anyone know where i can pick up an Android SDL sdk?
Nov 26 05:59:20 <romainguy__> the SDK?
Nov 26 05:59:36 <KNY> Leeds, dang.
Nov 26 05:59:53 <meoblast001> no
Nov 26 05:59:56 <Leeds> there's no SDL SDK, is there?
Nov 26 05:59:59 <meoblast001> an SDK to build SDL apps
Nov 26 06:00:09 <meoblast001> i need to find a way to port SDL apps to android
Nov 26 06:00:37 <Leeds> I don't think there is a way, yet
Nov 26 06:00:45 <marix> what i've heard is that the codec's for video were created for the sdk,  but any other codecs will be very difficult to perform in java.
Nov 26 06:00:59 <meoblast001> i heard someone did it but i doubt it will work
Nov 26 06:01:03 <tarelerulz> KNY, you mean just walk into verison ask for a phone with out contract and walk out.  I wish I was not poor right at this moment
Nov 26 06:01:11 <meoblast001> http://www.anddev.org/port_opengl-sdl-tinysdgl_to_android_with_native_c-t3265.html
Nov 26 06:01:26 <KNY> tarelerulz, you could walk into verizon, but you're not walking out with a G1 if you do :)
Nov 26 06:01:27 <Leeds> tarelerulz: t-mobile
Nov 26 06:01:52 <romainguy__> meoblast001: so why don't you use this?
Nov 26 06:01:56 <RyeBrye> KNT: Re: Gas-Free... Yeah, wouldn't be hard, and it would be easy to make it look much better than that too
Nov 26 06:02:01 <meoblast001> romainguy, dont know if it will work
Nov 26 06:02:31 <KNY> RyeBrye, definitely.
Nov 26 06:02:39 <romainguy__> meoblast001: why? apparently it works, just give it a try
Nov 26 06:02:41 <marix> gas-free will be out soon enough
Nov 26 06:02:45 <meoblast001> ok
Nov 26 06:03:01 <meoblast001> if it works i'll make my own media player for android =P
Nov 26 06:03:21 <marix> if we can have 4 versions of term emulators i'm sure someone can put together a new gas finder app
Nov 26 06:03:28 <romainguy__> meoblast001: and nobody will be able to run it :))
Nov 26 06:03:30 <meoblast001> romainguy__: is there a cursor at all in Android?
Nov 26 06:03:33 <tarelerulz> Leeds, thanks got mixed up on the details .   Cool phone action , media playing and host of innovative program for it .  Plus maybe something working with Linux and not be some hack or halfway will be nice
Nov 26 06:03:37 <romainguy__> meoblast001: a cursor?
Nov 26 06:03:44 <meoblast001> romainguy__: why wouldnt they be able to run it?
Nov 26 06:03:49 <RyeBrye> you mean amouse cursor?
Nov 26 06:03:49 <marix> like mouse pointer?
Nov 26 06:03:50 <romainguy__> because it's native code
Nov 26 06:04:02 <meoblast001> whats native code?
Nov 26 06:04:09 <umdk1d3> heh opera has a mouse cursor
Nov 26 06:04:17 <romainguy__> umdk1d3: yeah :)
Nov 26 06:04:26 <marix> yea, its odd that it can't accept diag inputs
Nov 26 06:04:31 <marix> my blackberry could just fine
Nov 26 06:04:41 <romainguy__> marix: "diag inputs"?
Nov 26 06:04:57 <marix> diagonal
Nov 26 06:05:02 <meoblast001> i love how tmobile makes it look like the only thing good about android is google web search
Nov 26 06:05:18 <marix> it feels like an etch a sketch when you scroll in operamini
Nov 26 06:05:25 <romainguy__> ah opera mini
Nov 26 06:05:26 <romainguy__> yes
Nov 26 06:05:33 <romainguy__> well it looks like a quick port
Nov 26 06:05:38 <marix> but the pearl uses the same input method
Nov 26 06:05:39 <romainguy__> they don't support fling for instance
Nov 26 06:05:39 <tarelerulz> Since the  g1  are on the same level as pda where they really need to do stuff with reading docs and other such things.  Why not if you can
Nov 26 06:05:58 <marix> but its alot smoother,  maybe the input refresh is just slow and choppy
Nov 26 06:06:00 <marix> dunno
Nov 26 06:06:28 <umdk1d3> i was impressed with operas speed, esp w/o native code
Nov 26 06:06:40 <umdk1d3> webkit runs native right?
Nov 26 06:06:43 <romainguy__> yep
Nov 26 06:06:47 <romainguy__> but opera mini uses a proxy server
Nov 26 06:06:48 <meoblast001> romainguy__: is this a bad thing if this goes fullscreen http://static1.photo.sina.com.cn/bmiddle/4a0a39c3g5994bb8a3f70
Nov 26 06:06:53 <romainguy__> so it sends very little and processes very little
Nov 26 06:07:00 <marix> yea,  opera mobile for the WM devices is a really nice browser
Nov 26 06:07:21 <romainguy__> meoblast001: it takes over the screen so it basically prevent interactions with the Android OS
Nov 26 06:07:23 <Leeds> opera mini is really good on my old pre-smartphone... but it's not really necessary on android
Nov 26 06:07:33 <umdk1d3> romainguy__: very intersting, didnt know that, was prolly buried in eula somewhere lol
Nov 26 06:07:57 <romainguy__> umdk1d3: http://www.gamekult.com/tout/jeux/fiches/J000087332_test.html << this page is 72 KB with Opera Mini for instance
Nov 26 06:08:05 <meoblast001> romainguy, im assuming using the keyboard would communicate with SDL correct?
Nov 26 06:08:12 <romainguy__> you can also see that it reflows the page so that the text is the same width as your screen
Nov 26 06:10:32 <marix> does tmo have any g1 gear yet?
Nov 26 06:10:39 <marix> i need a holster
Nov 26 06:11:26 <tarelerulz> What can it plug into normal wall outlet ? the g1
Nov 26 06:11:54 <marix> tarelerulz, please try again.
Nov 26 06:11:58 <meoblast001> whats the screenres of android?
Nov 26 06:12:31 <p_quarles> 320x480 iirc
Nov 26 06:12:38 <meoblast001> k
Nov 26 06:12:40 <umdk1d3> 480x320 on emulator and g1
Nov 26 06:13:51 <tarelerulz> Can  g1 plug into a normal wall outlet ?
Nov 26 06:14:13 <KNY> yes
Nov 26 06:14:21 <KNY> it comes with a USB charger and a wall charger
Nov 26 06:14:32 <marix> the special htc plug is compatible w/ micro usb
Nov 26 06:15:29 <marix> sorry,  shoudl be mini usb
Nov 26 06:15:33 <tarelerulz> Mircro usb is what I would think on phone.  Normal USB  would be great haha
Nov 26 06:16:17 <p_quarles> it's a proprietary connector called extUSB
Nov 26 06:16:29 <meoblast001> romainguy__: is android opensource now?
Nov 26 06:16:36 <KNY> has been for like a month
Nov 26 06:16:38 <romainguy__> since October 21st
Nov 26 06:16:43 <meoblast001> nice
Nov 26 06:17:33 <tarelerulz> Never will happen ,but I would love to see mkv support on something haha
Nov 26 06:17:48 <romainguy__> android is open source, patches are welcome
Nov 26 06:18:39 <umdk1d3> mmm mkv is nice, and lightweight compared to other containers
Nov 26 06:19:48 <tarelerulz> umdk1d3:  I love mkv myself.  It has lot of great feature THAT have yet to BE used to any where tagging , menu action
Nov 26 06:22:34 <_avatar> woohoo, i got my app working -- i can turn lights in my house on and off with my phone :D
Nov 26 06:23:01 <tarelerulz> dud , avatar , nice
Nov 26 06:27:29 <Leeds> tarelerulz: why will it never happen? note android has ogg vorbis support out of the box...
Nov 26 06:29:38 <tarelerulz> Leeds , I hope it does . I am ripping all my movies in mkv .  If it does i don't think it will do all the features.  I don't know one linux program that does all mkv features.  Like meta taging system and menu stuff
Nov 26 06:31:56 <lgbr> people wrote mean things about my first app :(
Nov 26 06:32:17 <tarelerulz> What you first app lgbr?
Nov 26 06:32:23 <lgbr> OTP Calculator
Nov 26 06:32:54 <tarelerulz> What is the otp part ?
Nov 26 06:33:02 <lgbr> One time password
Nov 26 06:33:12 <unix_infidel> calculator?
Nov 26 06:33:36 <umdk1d3> kinda like a securid fob?
Nov 26 06:34:04 <lgbr> umdk1d3: exactly. Same purpose. Except this isn't time based
Nov 26 06:34:24 <lgbr> you have a machine equipped with s/key and this will generate the password needed to login
Nov 26 06:34:35 <tarelerulz> Security is good . I have talked to hackers talk about hacking into phone with blue tooth .  So Security
Nov 26 06:34:38 <umdk1d3> ah cool
Nov 26 06:35:08 <lgbr> much cheaper alternative to SecurID if you don't could the cost of your G1 ;)
Nov 26 06:35:15 <Gary|tp> hahaha
Nov 26 06:35:15 <lgbr> *don't count
Nov 26 06:35:28 <Gary|tp> I proved some mod wrong/stupid on hofo
Nov 26 06:35:37 <Gary|tp> and they moved the topic to mod/admins only
Nov 26 06:35:59 <Gary|tp> I used to think HoFo was nice, but the site seems like shit to me
Nov 26 06:36:03 <Gary|tp> *to me now
Nov 26 06:36:04 <marix> lgbr,  they weren't too harsh on you
Nov 26 06:36:32 <marix> looks like you just need some debugging
Nov 26 06:36:50 <umdk1d3> altho ppl paranoid enough to use something like securid are prolly paranoid of the g1 having wifi/cell  :/
Nov 26 06:38:59 <Gary|tp> tarelerulz: how would you do that without the g1 pairing/letting it connect
Nov 26 06:39:56 <spikebike> lgr barada or something else?
Nov 26 06:41:35 <meoblast001> is the G1 faster than 1.7 GHz
Nov 26 06:41:39 <Gary|tp> umdk1d3: what.
Nov 26 06:41:45 <DarkriftX> LOL
Nov 26 06:41:57 <meoblast001> cuz my computer is uber slow at shutting down the emu
Nov 26 06:42:02 <Gary|tp> meoblast001: 1.7 GHz, what CPU type? x86? Fuck no. G1 is a 500ish ARM CPU
Nov 26 06:42:04 <meoblast001> and its 1.7 GHz
Nov 26 06:42:11 <marix_g1> maybe if it was in a high end paint shaker
Nov 26 06:42:19 <d03boy> are you aware that your computer is doing a lot more than simply running the emu?
Nov 26 06:42:23 <meoblast001> i know
Nov 26 06:42:29 <meoblast001> its running Linux Kernel 2.6
Nov 26 06:42:30 <meoblast001> Init
Nov 26 06:42:33 <meoblast001> X11
Nov 26 06:42:34 <meoblast001> Gnome
Nov 26 06:42:38 <meoblast001> do i need to continue
Nov 26 06:42:41 <tarelerulz> Gary|tp ,   I don't know how you would use bluetooth to hack the phone ,but I am just saying security is something to think about.
Nov 26 06:43:09 <meoblast001> i want a g1
Nov 26 06:43:11 <Gary|tp> umdk1d3: securid and the likes make keylogging/password stealing next to impossible. It is not simply paranoia, some people have hundreds of thousands invested that they don't feel like losing.
Nov 26 06:43:24 <meoblast001> but we dont always get what we want
Nov 26 06:43:25 <marix_g1> tarelerulz, at this point in time i would disagree
Nov 26 06:44:05 <marix_g1> but if we try some times we just might fine
Nov 26 06:44:11 <Gary|tp> The only thing you have to worry about with securid is it getting stolen, or some connection/dns poisoning.
Nov 26 06:44:14 <marix_g1> wwe get what we neeeeeed
Nov 26 06:44:23 <spikebike> gary or man in the middle
Nov 26 06:44:24 <Gary|tp> Connection jacking is pretty hard to pull off, regardless.
Nov 26 06:44:32 <Gary|tp> well, yeah
Nov 26 06:44:41 <Gary|tp> by DNS poisoning I meant man in the middle
Nov 26 06:44:42 <spikebike> I want to do something similar
Nov 26 06:45:04 <spikebike> I want to have the pam module/openid server challenge my phone via xmpp
Nov 26 06:45:12 <Gary|tp> I wrote a very long post about blizzcon, and how someone could steal thousands of accounts of people logging on at it (warcraft)
Nov 26 06:45:16 <Gary|tp> through session jacking
Nov 26 06:45:17 <spikebike> and have the phone accept/deny and prove the ownership of a private key
Nov 26 06:45:28 <meoblast001> night everyone
Nov 26 06:45:31 <meoblast001> im going to bed
Nov 26 06:45:38 <marix_g1> night
Nov 26 06:46:02 <tarelerulz> What audio formats does the g1 support ?
Nov 26 06:46:08 <spikebike> ogg
Nov 26 06:46:49 <marix_g1> i wrote a little app that looked like an everquest login and had it email me the keystrokes,  then released it as a trainer on kazaa,  had tons of users account info
Nov 26 06:47:02 <marix_g1> tohse were the days
Nov 26 06:47:09 <Gary|tp> anyway, back to the whole HoFo butthurt mod
Nov 26 06:47:19 <Gary|tp> other than xda, what are some good phone sites :p
Nov 26 06:47:46 <marix_g1> android guys for generic news
Nov 26 06:47:52 <Gary|tp> marix_g1: those will get you shitty accounts with low levels and no gold
Nov 26 06:48:14 <marix_g1> youd be suprised
Nov 26 06:48:17 <Gary|tp> Session jacking would be almost impossible to prevent (from the end user point of view)
Nov 26 06:48:20 <grey-> sadface: http://gizmodo.com/5099004/cnbc-zune-phone-is-real-codenamed-pink
Nov 26 06:48:47 <Leeds> I did see a full list of codecs somewhere... which did include the wma codecs which are on the G1 but not part of the open source android
Nov 26 06:49:26 <Lieutenant> whats the difference between WEP and WPA?
Nov 26 06:49:37 <tarelerulz> The reason I ask about audio is I heard that aac or ac3 is better then mp3 by ways.  heard that vorbis is better then mp3 ,but high bit rates.  if it can support  aac or ac3 Then I would see about putting that on it.  If I could get more songs and still be good quality then I am there.
Nov 26 06:50:12 <Gary|tp> Lieutenant: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=wep+vs+wpa
Nov 26 06:50:24 <Leeds> tarelerulz: yes, there is ogg vorbis, aac and mp3
Nov 26 06:51:43 <marix_g1> bed time
Nov 26 06:51:43 <RyeBrye> A zunephone would be an epic fail
Nov 26 06:51:51 <marix_g1> cu l8r
Nov 26 06:51:51 <Lieutenant> LOL gary thats so badass!
Nov 26 06:52:21 <RyeBrye> not only would MS have to convince consumers to buy that - they'd have to convince a carrier that consumes would buy it - and carriers are not quite that stupid
Nov 26 06:52:43 <Leeds> how about Zune.exe for winmob?
Nov 26 06:52:55 <marix_g1> gary, that link works on android
Nov 26 06:52:58 <RyeBrye> leeds - your g1 working?
Nov 26 06:53:12 <grey-> marix_g1: using an irc client for android?
Nov 26 06:53:14 <marix_g1> moving cursor and everything
Nov 26 06:53:17 <grey-> marix_g1: is one on the marketplace now?
Nov 26 06:53:21 <Leeds> RyeBrye: 'tis today :-)
Nov 26 06:53:21 <marix_g1> yea
Nov 26 06:53:26 <tarelerulz> Thanks, leeds,   I really want to try some new stuff out and most media player don't push anything to the next level. I could see g1 say have video play that support some cool feature like muli audio ect .   If it can be done then I am doing it.  I would love to show off watching an anime on my g1 .
Nov 26 06:53:27 <marix_g1> nope
Nov 26 06:53:30 <RyeBrye> IRC in market?
Nov 26 06:53:43 <RyeBrye> infobot neocore
Nov 26 06:53:44 <infobot> [neocore] a cool demo by Qualcomm that cheats by using native code
Nov 26 06:53:45 <marix_g1> using mibbit
Nov 26 06:53:51 <grey-> ah
Nov 26 06:53:52 <grey-> kk.
Nov 26 06:53:57 <romainguy__> tarelerulz: you can watch videos on the G1
Nov 26 06:54:06 <RyeBrye> infobot romainguy
Nov 26 06:54:09 <DarkriftX> g1 supports xvid right?
Nov 26 06:54:16 <romainguy__> hmm I don't know
Nov 26 06:54:31 <romainguy__> I've seen h264
Nov 26 06:54:37 <romainguy__> I don't know what else it supports
Nov 26 06:55:18 <Leeds> tarelerulz: there are two separate things... the android platform has codec and container support, and applications have cool-stuff support.  For example, android supports mp3, so it's relatively easy to write an mp3 player... it doesn't support mkv, so writing something which plays mkv videos will be hard
Nov 26 06:55:18 <RyeBrye> infobot romainguy is a ninja coder who works for Google on Android
Nov 26 06:55:19 <infobot> okay, RyeBrye
Nov 26 06:55:28 <Leeds> ibot RyeBrye
Nov 26 06:55:35 <theCarpenter> is it possible to charge $$$ for apps yet
Nov 26 06:55:40 <romainguy__> not yet
Nov 26 06:55:43 <theCarpenter> okay
Nov 26 06:55:47 <theCarpenter> any idea of a timeline for it?
Nov 26 06:55:47 <RyeBrye> Leeds - you have to give his fulll name :)
Nov 26 06:55:48 <romainguy__> we're working on it :)
Nov 26 06:55:48 <Leeds> expected in Q1?
Nov 26 06:55:50 <RyeBrye> infobot RyeBrye
Nov 26 06:55:51 <infobot> hmm... ryebrye is messing with my head man, he's messin with my head! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Nov 26 06:55:59 <theCarpenter> infobot: theCarpenter
Nov 26 06:56:03 <Leeds> RyeBrye: ah, he's ibot on other channels where I've known him for years
Nov 26 06:56:05 <theCarpenter> infobot theCarpenter
Nov 26 06:56:05 <RyeBrye> infobot no RyeBrye is the ruler of the universe
Nov 26 06:56:06 <infobot> RyeBrye: okay
Nov 26 06:56:14 <RyeBrye> infobot RyeBrye
Nov 26 06:56:15 <infobot> [ryebrye] the ruler of the universe
Nov 26 06:56:44 <Leeds> romainguy__: if you can say... is the market payment stuff likely to screw those of us who, ahem, might not be using their phones on a t-mobile contract?
Nov 26 06:56:52 <Leeds> infobot: tell RyeBrye about Leeds
Nov 26 06:56:58 <marix_g1> does the g1 have a ctrl v equivilant?
Nov 26 06:56:59 <romainguy__> Leeds: why would it screw you?
Nov 26 06:57:12 <Leeds> romainguy__: depending on how the billing is done...
Nov 26 06:57:15 <tarelerulz> Leeds, I know mkv support is wishful thinking .  I read that mp4 can support muli audio and does subtitles from what I hear.  I can see some anime action right there
Nov 26 06:57:24 <romainguy__> Leeds: define "screw" :)
Nov 26 06:57:25 <grey-> marix_g1: click on the ball for control
Nov 26 06:57:29 <RyeBrye> infobot tell Leeds about your mother
Nov 26 06:57:36 <grey-> marix_g1: at least, in connectbot and such.
Nov 26 06:57:40 <Leeds> romainguy__: 'make it impossible to pay for stuff'
Nov 26 06:57:47 <romainguy__> ah
Nov 26 06:57:49 <romainguy__> no idea
Nov 26 06:57:54 <romainguy__> ask T-Mobile :)
Nov 26 06:58:15 <Leeds> hmm... that somewhat answers the question ;)
Nov 26 06:58:26 <romainguy__> no it doesn't
Nov 26 06:58:29 <romainguy__> I really have no idea
Nov 26 06:58:29 <Gary|tp> neocore uses native code?
Nov 26 06:58:37 <Gary|tp> I thought that was too good to be running in davlik
Nov 26 06:58:39 <RyeBrye> andyross said it does
Nov 26 06:58:48 <romainguy__> neocore uses native code
Nov 26 06:58:49 <RyeBrye> someone else did earlier
Nov 26 06:58:59 <romainguy__> but it's hw accelerated OpenGL
Nov 26 06:59:08 <romainguy__> so a Java version could certainly do the same
Nov 26 06:59:10 <Leeds> romainguy__: if I have to ask t-mobile, the answer is probably "yes, it will screw us", at least partially
Nov 26 06:59:24 <marix_g12> crashed the browser lol
Nov 26 06:59:31 <romainguy__> Leeds: why? I'm saying this because if such a decision is made, I believe it would come from T-Mobile
Nov 26 06:59:39 <romainguy__> I can't speak for them
Nov 26 06:59:44 <romainguy__> therefore you would have to ask them
Nov 26 07:00:33 <marix_g12> ok bed time 4 reals  later
Nov 26 07:00:35 <Leeds> romainguy__: point is that Apple handle the billing for the iphone... nothing to do with the carrier... if the billing for the market is anything to do with t-mobile at all, it could well cause problems
Nov 26 07:00:53 <romainguy__> my answer remains the same: I have no idea
Nov 26 07:01:02 <romainguy__> and to know if the carrier is involved well, ask the carrier
Nov 26 07:01:18 <romainguy__> I doubt they will be involved in the billing though
Nov 26 07:01:31 <romainguy__> that would make Market hard to use with other carriers
Nov 26 07:01:38 <romainguy__> but again, I have no idea :)
Nov 26 07:01:38 <marix_g12> tmo gets 30% so they are involved somewhere
Nov 26 07:01:52 <RyeBrye> tmo gets 30%? I though Google got 30%
Nov 26 07:01:58 <romainguy__> Google gets nothing
Nov 26 07:02:07 <marix_g12> google gets nothing
Nov 26 07:02:09 <Leeds> it could be done on a carrier-by-carrier basis... anyway, I guess we'll wait and see
Nov 26 07:02:25 <RyeBrye> Google gets nothing?
Nov 26 07:02:28 <RyeBrye> That's too bad
Nov 26 07:02:30 <romainguy__> Google gets nothing
Nov 26 07:02:31 <marix_g12> thats why balmer said it ahs no revinue model
Nov 26 07:02:37 <Leeds> eh, Google has plenty already :-)
Nov 26 07:02:37 <romainguy__> RyeBrye: more money for the developers :)
Nov 26 07:02:42 <RyeBrye> I'd much rather Google get 30% than the carriers get something
Nov 26 07:02:58 <DarkriftX> carriers get money from the market?
Nov 26 07:02:59 <DarkriftX> wtf
Nov 26 07:03:15 <Leeds> and that's my point again... if t-mob are getting 30%, it means that people who don't have t-mob accounts aren't likely to be able to shop in the market
Nov 26 07:03:27 <Gary|tp> yeah
Nov 26 07:03:30 <romainguy__> Leeds: that's quite a logical leap
Nov 26 07:03:32 <RyeBrye> The I wouldn't feel as compelled to spend a full workday each month doing nothing but clicking on ads on google searches to help pay for romainguy's salary ;)
Nov 26 07:03:36 <Gary|tp> no way t-mobiles going to be involved
Nov 26 07:03:37 <DarkriftX> i thought 100% of the market sales went to developers
Nov 26 07:03:38 <marix_g12> yea, for data and cost of transaction handling
Nov 26 07:03:41 <DarkriftX> thats what ive red all along
Nov 26 07:03:42 <Gary|tp> especially after android is on all the major carriers
Nov 26 07:03:52 <Leeds> romainguy__: I don't think so
Nov 26 07:03:52 <Gary|tp> I'd think so too, DarkriftX
Nov 26 07:04:01 <DarkriftX> if not, fuck the market
Nov 26 07:04:01 <Gary|tp> I doubt that Google or T-M is going to profit off market sales
Nov 26 07:04:08 <DarkriftX> the devs should get it all
Nov 26 07:04:13 <Gary|tp> indeed
Nov 26 07:04:16 <romainguy__> Leeds: let's face it, you have no idea what you're talking about either :)
Nov 26 07:04:17 <RyeBrye> http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/10/android-market-now-available-for-users.html
Nov 26 07:04:18 <DarkriftX> that makes them work harder and make better shit
Nov 26 07:04:30 <DarkriftX> which in turn makes android better, which makes the carriers sell more phones
Nov 26 07:04:32 <Leeds> DarkriftX: and where does funding for the bandwidth, support, billing, etc. come from?
Nov 26 07:04:41 <DarkriftX> if they are so greedy they take a chunk, screw them
Nov 26 07:04:45 <DarkriftX> read my prev sentance
Nov 26 07:05:02 <Leeds> put your app on your own website, do your own billing, collect 100% of the price
Nov 26 07:05:06 <RyeBrye> So does that $25 setup fee go to the carriers as well?
Nov 26 07:05:07 <DarkriftX> bandwidth, support, billing (which most carriers do shitty as it is) are paid for by your service
Nov 26 07:05:22 <romainguy__> Leeds: and then lose 30% paying for the bandwitdth, storage, billing, etc. :))
Nov 26 07:05:29 <Leeds> romainguy__: oh, absolutely
Nov 26 07:05:42 <DarkriftX> i need to find a setup to accept payment on my site
Nov 26 07:05:51 <DarkriftX> ill let developers sell their shit on there for free
Nov 26 07:06:12 <romainguy__> DarkriftX: and you're most welcome to do so
Nov 26 07:06:22 <RyeBrye> for billing you could use google checkout, and if the bandwidth for your moible app cost you a noticeable amount of money you are doing something wrong
Nov 26 07:06:24 <Leeds> but if the official statement from Google is that "Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage"
Nov 26 07:06:26 <DarkriftX> i pay $8/mo for hosting, and even with all the OTA updates and other shit, i use less then 0.5% of my hosting bw
Nov 26 07:06:46 <Leeds> DarkriftX: and you're going to absorb the c/c costs?  overhead for refunds and refused payments?
Nov 26 07:07:00 <DarkriftX> so its not a lot for the hosting
Nov 26 07:07:12 <tarelerulz> Can you still get the app that make ringtons out of your sound files /songs .  So you could say up part of song and make that you ring tone.
Nov 26 07:07:33 <DarkriftX> no Leeds those would come from the devs as price for using a free service
Nov 26 07:07:48 <Leeds> erm...
Nov 26 07:07:59 <Leeds> "price for using a free service" :-)
Nov 26 07:08:02 <DarkriftX> someone buys your software and refunds it, its your fault, not mine
Nov 26 07:08:16 <DarkriftX> that probably wouldnt equal 30% though
Nov 26 07:08:41 <DarkriftX> i doubt the market would pay a developer for a refused payment on an app
Nov 26 07:08:48 <DarkriftX> so they are taking the 30% plus that
Nov 26 07:09:01 <RyeBrye> Doesn't the market have some kind of 7-day return policy built into it?
Nov 26 07:09:12 <Leeds> but if the refusal comes after the app has been delivered?
Nov 26 07:09:32 <DarkriftX> you are reading too much into that
Nov 26 07:09:54 <DarkriftX> i doubt the market would deposit money to the developer after EACH transaction
Nov 26 07:09:58 <DarkriftX> more likely each month
Nov 26 07:10:09 <Leeds> unless you have a kill switch, the fraudulant user keeps the app, the developer has to give back most of the money
Nov 26 07:10:13 <DarkriftX> in which time the past months refused payments or refunds would be removed
Nov 26 07:10:29 <DarkriftX> fraudulent users get banned
Nov 26 07:10:44 <DarkriftX> i didnt say i would have asshole filters or piracy proof system
Nov 26 07:10:52 <Leeds> and immediately rejoin under a different name
Nov 26 07:11:03 <Nafai> COnnectBot is really nice
Nov 26 07:11:05 <DarkriftX> im talking user pays $10, cc fee is removed, dev gets 100% of the remaining amount
Nov 26 07:11:16 <Leeds> point is, it's not as simple as $8 hosting and google checkout
Nov 26 07:11:18 <DarkriftX> Leeds: cc needs address/name
Nov 26 07:11:34 <Gary|tp> bandwidth is lol
Nov 26 07:11:45 <Leeds> DarkriftX: not until you process a transaction, and that's when you find they are using a stolen card
Nov 26 07:11:55 <RyeBrye> it's a trap!
Nov 26 07:12:02 <RyeBrye> infobot stolen credit card
Nov 26 07:12:12 <DarkriftX> i think leeds wants to pay the developers 30% for all developers!
Nov 26 07:12:27 <Gary|tp> Total Bandwidth Provided:  	5800 GB ($0.1/GB over)
Nov 26 07:12:28 <Gary|tp> Total Used So Far: 	12.058 GB
Nov 26 07:12:29 <DarkriftX> and yes, i know my way around payment gateways, ecommerce sites and so on
Nov 26 07:12:37 <RyeBrye> infobot a stolen credit card is how Leeds pays for all his android programs on DarkriftX's hypothetical site
Nov 26 07:12:38 <infobot> RyeBrye: okay
Nov 26 07:12:46 <Leeds> hey, I want to give apps away and take donations, mainly
Nov 26 07:12:51 <DarkriftX> Gary13579: i have 1.5tb bw, and im at 0.5% (last day of billing cycle)
Nov 26 07:13:00 <Gary|tp> host?
Nov 26 07:13:07 <DarkriftX> hehe
Nov 26 07:13:09 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - aren't you on a sweetheart deal since you work there?
Nov 26 07:13:25 <Gary|tp> and I have nearly 6 tb
Nov 26 07:13:26 <Gary|tp> so there
Nov 26 07:13:27 <DarkriftX> no RyeBrye i pay normal prices unless i know a code (which i do)
Nov 26 07:13:43 <DarkriftX> ahh, 5800gb, i thought you said mb :S
Nov 26 07:13:50 <Gary|tp> lol
Nov 26 07:13:55 <DarkriftX> thats not bad
Nov 26 07:13:55 <Gary|tp> I'll never hit it
Nov 26 07:14:02 <DarkriftX> thats what most dedicated servers have lol
Nov 26 07:14:07 <DarkriftX> 2-5tb
Nov 26 07:14:16 <Leeds> not that I've actually written any android code yet, but my plan would be to sell stuff on the market for a nominal charge ($1-$2 or so), give it away on my personal site, and let people make donations if they want to... unlikely to threaten my day job
Nov 26 07:14:34 <DarkriftX> id like to see most apps on market sell for $2 or so
Nov 26 07:14:46 <DarkriftX> i think they would make more with volume than they would selling higher and getting less users
Nov 26 07:14:56 <Leeds> $999 - I am Rich!
Nov 26 07:15:07 <DarkriftX> id buy $2 apps all day long but $10+ id prob think really hard about
Nov 26 07:15:17 <romainguy__> http://www.losingfight.com/blog/2008/11/15/how-to-price-your-iphone-app-out-of-existence/
Nov 26 07:17:14 <DarkriftX> id hope most android developers arent living on their android earnings
Nov 26 07:17:21 <Leeds> romainguy__: and without having read the whole page yet... surely the solution is to have 10 apps going for $1 each, releasing 1 per month?
Nov 26 07:18:12 <Leeds> if you can't generate a $1 app in a month, you're doing something wrong
Nov 26 07:18:21 <Gary|tp> if you make a killer app you probably could, DarkriftX
Nov 26 07:18:47 <DarkriftX> yes
Nov 26 07:18:57 <DarkriftX> but you should never quit your day job in expectation of that
Nov 26 07:19:18 <Gary|tp> well yes, but if you keep it well maintained
Nov 26 07:19:22 <RyeBrye> no, the solution is to make an app that gets the fine location from a user, and asks for full internet access - and make the app focus on inventorying rare and expensive jewelery
Nov 26 07:19:27 <Gary|tp> and no one makes a better app etc
Nov 26 07:19:29 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 26 07:20:27 <RyeBrye> I don't think I've downloaded a single app from the market yet that I would consider worth paying for
Nov 26 07:20:40 <romainguy__> Leeds: yes but then you have 10 apps to support and maintain :))
Nov 26 07:20:41 <RyeBrye> I have downloaded a LOT of apps from the market
Nov 26 07:20:57 <romainguy__> RyeBrye: maybe because the apps worth paying for are not on the market since you can't pay for them? :)
Nov 26 07:21:17 <Leeds> RyeBrye: there are at least a couple I'd chip in $1 or $2 for - particularly in expectation of future improvement
Nov 26 07:21:26 <RyeBrye> romainguy - no, some of the apps have sneeky subscription models baked in (case in point: gas bot thinks it is worth $7 a year)
Nov 26 07:21:48 <romainguy__> RyeBrye: I haven't tried any of these yet
Nov 26 07:24:13 <DarkriftX> i havent seen many apps from the market, but from what ive seen, there are 3 id consider paying for (if i had to, im poor so i dont donate a lot lol)
Nov 26 07:24:14 <Gary|tp> FireWallet is nice
Nov 26 07:24:20 <Gary|tp> no way it's worth money
Nov 26 07:24:30 <Gary|tp> which would those be
Nov 26 07:24:54 <DarkriftX> connectbot, that pinpoint (if it worked as i had originally heard, ive since heard there were problems with it) and that one navigation software whatshisname wrote (the screenshots looked great)
Nov 26 07:25:12 <DarkriftX> but as i said, wife spends all my cash, so id use it sparingly and not be paying $30/app
Nov 26 07:25:34 <Leeds> I'd pay for connectbot... I'd pay for Trap, if they fixed a few of the bugs...
Nov 26 07:25:47 <DarkriftX> now the other side of that is
Nov 26 07:25:59 <DarkriftX> id pay $2-$5 for connectbot, but i wouldnt pay $10+
Nov 26 07:26:05 <Gary|tp> Trap?
Nov 26 07:26:07 <DarkriftX> because i wouldnt use it enough to justify that
Nov 26 07:26:29 <DarkriftX> even though from what ive seen, its a great ssh client, that doesnt mean it will be worth it to me
Nov 26 07:26:41 <DarkriftX> the big thing is how often a user will use your app
Nov 26 07:26:50 <grey-> trap?
Nov 26 07:26:53 <grey-> wait
Nov 26 07:26:58 <grey-> someone is going to charge for connectbot?
Nov 26 07:27:00 <grey-> wtfx?
Nov 26 07:27:07 <DarkriftX> if its a gps app, it might be worth more because it would get used all the time, vs a tip calculator, once a week or so
Nov 26 07:27:14 <DarkriftX> grey-: it was an example
Nov 26 07:27:18 <DarkriftX> of apps i WOULD pay for
Nov 26 07:27:22 <grey-> fuck that, if that happens I'll just put debian userland and apt-get install openssh
Nov 26 07:27:28 <grey-> haha
Nov 26 07:27:30 <grey-> good point
Nov 26 07:27:31 <Gary|tp> DarkriftX: a good finance app would be every day
Nov 26 07:27:39 <grey-> most of the apps in the marketplace are utter trash
Nov 26 07:27:45 <grey-> calculator 200000001321
Nov 26 07:27:53 <DarkriftX> my point was there are probably 15 different ssh clients, but they are always making new versions, so their would probably be the best one to pay for
Nov 26 07:27:54 <Leeds> Gary|tp: a bouncing-balls arcade game
Nov 26 07:28:19 <romainguy__> grey-: you're welcome to make better ones :)
Nov 26 07:28:24 <DarkriftX> free apps dont make long term developers
Nov 26 07:28:24 <grey-> connectbot is great.
Nov 26 07:28:27 <grey-> being free is also great.
Nov 26 07:28:34 <DarkriftX> but neither do excessivly overpriced ones
Nov 26 07:28:36 <grey-> other people are welcome to make otehrs
Nov 26 07:28:43 <grey-> but I wouldn't pay for 'em. ;)
Nov 26 07:28:57 <romainguy__> why would you not pay for a good app that you find useful?
Nov 26 07:29:05 <Leeds> one thing which I haven't seen yet - and I wonder why not - is all the 'classic' games... tetris, arkenoid, even things like space invaders
Nov 26 07:29:09 <Leeds> duck hunt?
Nov 26 07:29:19 <DarkriftX> Leeds: most of those were outbefore the g1 was
Nov 26 07:29:22 <romainguy__> I want The Incredible Machine on G1 :))
Nov 26 07:29:33 <DarkriftX> tetris and space invaders anyways, not sure about arkanoid
Nov 26 07:29:37 <Leeds> romainguy__: there will be an interesting competition between non-free/good and free/good-enough
Nov 26 07:29:39 <Leeds> DarkriftX: where?
Nov 26 07:29:45 <Nafai> is there anything preventing me from releasing my app for download for free / open source on my own website, but also putting it in android market for a price for those people who wish to donate?
Nov 26 07:29:53 * DarkriftX has arkanoid 2: revenge of doh (with dosbox) on his linux laptop
Nov 26 07:29:54 <tarelerulz> You guys all about about the app not being worth money.  What are some app that would make runner up for iphone in the market
Nov 26 07:29:55 <romainguy__> Leeds: apparently there's an invaders on Market :)
Nov 26 07:30:08 <romainguy__> Nafai: you can do that if you wish
Nov 26 07:30:15 <romainguy__> (check the agreement though)
Nov 26 07:30:15 <DarkriftX> Leeds: i had them for download on my site before the market was open
Nov 26 07:30:20 <Nafai> romainguy__: Thanks.
Nov 26 07:30:22 <DarkriftX> im assuming newer versions are on the market
Nov 26 07:30:28 <DarkriftX> look for monolith (tetris clone)
Nov 26 07:30:36 <Leeds> oh, and for the record... I do wonder why I can't download pacman... if it's a non-t-mob or non-US issue
Nov 26 07:30:36 <DarkriftX> might have been called monolithandroid
Nov 26 07:30:39 <Nafai> I'm going to be working on Android apps soon, I think :)
Nov 26 07:31:07 <romainguy__> I should seriously finish mine ^^
Nov 26 07:31:25 * DarkriftX is afk: smoking
Nov 26 07:31:37 <Nafai> romainguy__: So what do you think about Android vs swing, since you are obviously an expert at both? :)
Nov 26 07:32:09 <romainguy__> Nafai: Swing is harder but a lot more flexible
Nov 26 07:32:21 <romainguy__> Nafai: and Android has simpler and sometimes much more powerful APIs
Nov 26 07:32:34 <romainguy__> SGL and Java 2D are pretty much on par
Nov 26 07:32:49 <romainguy__> (the C++ version of SGL actually has some very interesting features not exposed at the Java layer)
Nov 26 07:32:51 <Nafai> I like simpler.  I've done my fair share of swing component development and that wasn't always fun
Nov 26 07:33:01 <romainguy__> it never bothered me
Nov 26 07:33:18 <romainguy__> but for instance writing a layout in Android is, imo, a little more complex than in Swing
Nov 26 07:33:22 <Leeds> arsebiscuits... just accidentally installed r30!
Nov 26 07:35:33 <Leeds> there goes my root :-(
Nov 26 07:38:22 <SystemWizard> isn't there a hacked R30 somewhere?
Nov 26 07:38:34 <DarkriftX> android-dls.com/wiki
Nov 26 07:38:36 <DarkriftX> its there
Nov 26 07:38:51 <DarkriftX> look for keeping root
Nov 26 07:39:14 <Neverender> DarkriftX: theres a tetris clone called tetroid in the market
Nov 26 07:39:20 <DarkriftX> nice
Nov 26 07:39:32 <Leeds> hence my mild swearing at accidentally installing the official r30
Nov 26 07:39:46 <Neverender> havent seen monolith
Nov 26 07:40:37 <DarkriftX> that sucks
Nov 26 07:40:43 <DarkriftX> i thought he was asking where to find it
Nov 26 07:43:05 <Lieutenant> who here has sbc yahoo dsl?
Nov 26 07:43:14 <Leeds> it flashed up the dialog while I was doing something else - okay, playing invaders - and I pressed the ball in before I noticed the dialog
Nov 26 07:44:59 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 26 08:19:55 <JJ|Laptop> lol Leeds
Nov 26 08:26:11 <JJ|Laptop> Leeds: you could say "you where invaded by invaders"
Nov 26 09:09:04 <JJ|Laptop> i really hope that i can get android to work a bit better on my touch vogue, since for some reason the internet tandomly drops and the camera won;t work for me
Nov 26 11:44:59 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 26 12:05:30 <vijay> hi i have a doubt ........ on what android run on ??........ does it require x11? ....
Nov 26 12:27:10 <mikey|> well, finally got around to ordering the g1
Nov 26 12:27:43 <mikey|> and one of my bro/sis has managed to infect my desktop pc with a virus :/
Nov 26 12:29:39 <Versed> picked one up last night.
Nov 26 12:35:39 <Dialekt> :(
Nov 26 12:38:47 <ttuttle> mikey|: you don't run... *gasp* ...Windows, do you?!
Nov 26 12:39:08 <mikey|> the phone comes with 8gb sd card, i've barely managed to use 100mb of my current 2gb sd card on my phone
Nov 26 12:39:35 <mikey|> ttuttle: *shock* *gasp* *horror* ye i do
Nov 26 12:39:42 <ttuttle> mikey|: :(
Nov 26 12:39:48 <mikey|> lol
Nov 26 12:40:23 <tauno> ttuttle, the problem is not windows - it's the missing antivirus thingie :)
Nov 26 12:40:27 <mikey|> it's probably my older brother's fault, he downloads anything
Nov 26 12:40:33 <ttuttle> tauno: ah
Nov 26 12:40:38 <mikey|> i have an av, dunno how it missed it
Nov 26 12:40:51 <mikey|> the firewall prompt for exp1orer.exe gave it away
Nov 26 12:41:03 <tauno> :D
Nov 26 12:45:36 <Dialekt> screw everything
Nov 26 12:48:42 <blau> hi guys
Nov 26 12:49:14 <blau> i think i figured out my issue from yesterday grrr
Nov 26 12:49:35 <ttuttle> blau: oh?
Nov 26 12:50:14 <blau> i had a problem where an urlconnection was apparently getting old data
Nov 26 12:50:32 <blau> setusecaches(false) seems like itll fix it
Nov 26 12:50:59 <ttuttle> blau: perhaps check the cache headers to make sure the server is sending them properly?
Nov 26 12:53:05 <blau> good plan
Nov 26 12:53:09 <blau> i was befuddled yesterday
Nov 26 12:53:23 <blau> although refreshing in the browser seemed to work
Nov 26 12:53:25 <blau> lol
Nov 26 12:53:37 <blau> that seems like coincidence though
Nov 26 12:55:10 <blau> im using hardcoded user id and passwd to test my google bookmark stuff
Nov 26 12:55:19 <mikey|> hows the battery life holding for people using the g1?
Nov 26 12:55:25 <blau> what are the chances i forget to take it out before uploading my stuff to the market lol
Nov 26 13:01:10 <ttuttle> blau: Less if you put a huge TextView that says "TAKE OUT HARDCODED USERNAME AND PASSWORD BEFORE SHIP" on the main screen.
Nov 26 13:04:51 <blau> the market makes me giggle
Nov 26 13:05:10 <blau> i feel like every day the "top 3" reviews for my app alternate between positive and negative
Nov 26 13:08:12 <blau> unknown socket error -1
Nov 26 13:08:13 <blau> mmm
Nov 26 13:08:41 <blau> permission in the wrong manifest lol
Nov 26 13:09:53 <Versed> blau where in NJ?
Nov 26 13:10:40 <blau> live in north plainfield, work in eatontown
Nov 26 13:14:32 <Versed> toms river here
Nov 26 13:15:50 <blau> anyone know how to do an urlconnection to an https with android?
Nov 26 13:16:56 <blau> 11-26 08:16:43.032: DEBUG/BOOKMARKS*******(650): ERRORHostname <www.google.com> was not verified
Nov 26 13:19:34 <Death_Syn> i need to learn enough java to build a picasa uploader
Nov 26 13:19:50 <Death_Syn> i hate having to plug my phone in to put photos on my album
Nov 26 13:20:00 <blau> i was considering making a camera app that auto uploads to various sites
Nov 26 13:20:08 <blau> but the camera on the g1 is ass, so that killed my motivation
Nov 26 13:21:12 <Death_Syn> its a bit slow, but best camera i've had on a phone
Nov 26 13:21:35 <blau> the slowness is what kills it for me
Nov 26 13:21:38 <Death_Syn> and it'd be nice to be able to plug my microsds from my nice camera into it to upload
Nov 26 13:22:00 <blau> death: start learning :)
Nov 26 13:22:03 <blau> ill help you set up the sdk
Nov 26 13:22:13 <Death_Syn> eh, i've got the sdk itself up
Nov 26 13:22:14 * ttuttle smiles in a very confidential way.
Nov 26 13:22:24 <Death_Syn> just haven't had time to sit down and beat on it
Nov 26 13:22:30 <Death_Syn> this weekend may be good for it
Nov 26 13:23:00 <blau> use my idea to auto upload from a custom camera app
Nov 26 13:23:19 <blau> and be sure to add a touch the screen to take a picture, and a delay mode for after you hit the "shutter" button
Nov 26 13:23:23 <blau> :)
Nov 26 13:23:51 <Death_Syn> sounds like a good idea to evolve into
Nov 26 13:24:07 <Death_Syn> right now i just want to be able to push pictures to picasa/flickr/whatever
Nov 26 13:24:26 <Death_Syn> at least I can put stuff in my gmail/email/mms
Nov 26 13:24:33 <Death_Syn> but hell, my old treo could do that
Nov 26 13:24:42 <Death_Syn> oh, i think i can even shove stuff on myspace alrady
Nov 26 13:24:44 <Death_Syn> er alrady
Nov 26 13:24:53 <Death_Syn> already, too
Nov 26 13:28:42 <blau> grrr
Nov 26 13:28:53 <blau> im getting a file not found exception from an urlconnection
Nov 26 13:33:23 <blau> :(
Nov 26 13:37:05 <blau> oh nevermind its cause google doesnt like me
Nov 26 13:37:11 <blau> and java has a dumb exception
Nov 26 13:37:59 <blau> sweet got it working!
Nov 26 13:39:55 <fnord>                                       root
Nov 26 13:39:56 <fnord>                        Killed by a hobgoblin with 0 gold
Nov 26 13:39:56 <fnord> hah
Nov 26 13:40:05 <fnord> i have rogue on my phone now :-O
Nov 26 13:40:49 <blau> lol
Nov 26 13:41:13 <jbq> heh
Nov 26 13:45:22 <indiabolbol> anybody has latest news on G1
Nov 26 13:45:55 <marix_g1> latest g1 news
Nov 26 13:46:17 <marix_g1> the neocore app is atleast partially native code
Nov 26 13:46:51 <blau> oo
Nov 26 13:46:55 <SanMehat> The SD card slot now takes floppy disks!
Nov 26 13:47:42 <marix_g1> and canada may succeed from the us!
Nov 26 13:49:49 <ttuttle> SanMehat: Wow!
Nov 26 13:49:57 <ttuttle> SanMehat: Damn good software developers you've got.
Nov 26 13:50:23 <SanMehat> hey man
Nov 26 13:50:29 <ttuttle> SanMehat: How's it going?
Nov 26 13:50:40 <indiabolbol1> glad to see u excited..
Nov 26 13:50:42 <SanMehat> crappy.. its 5:50 and i'm awake
Nov 26 13:50:54 <ttuttle> SanMehat: Still awake, or just woke up?
Nov 26 13:51:30 * jbq is in the "just woke up" category.
Nov 26 13:51:30 <SanMehat> I caught some australlian flu from pelly
Nov 26 13:51:37 <SanMehat> so i havent really slept yet
Nov 26 13:51:49 <ttuttle> SanMehat: :(
Nov 26 13:51:59 <SanMehat> yo jbq
Nov 26 13:52:05 <jbq> hey
Nov 26 13:52:13 <jbq> stay away from me! ;-)
Nov 26 13:52:14 <SanMehat> if you see pelly today beat him for me
Nov 26 13:52:28 <jbq> I'll stay away from him
Nov 26 13:52:36 * ttuttle thinks we need to quarantine SanMehat, or he'll infect the whole channel. :P
Nov 26 13:52:39 <ttuttle> brb
Nov 26 13:54:33 * eugene sneezes
Nov 26 13:54:54 <SanMehat> very funny
Nov 26 13:54:59 <eugene> hehe
Nov 26 13:55:36 * marix_g1 craves human flesh
Nov 26 13:56:00 <SanMehat> uh
Nov 26 13:56:03 * SanMehat backs away
Nov 26 13:56:39 <d0netsFN> so if marix_g1 was ddos'd right now
Nov 26 13:56:49 <d0netsFN> would it take down everyone on his tower or somethin?
Nov 26 13:58:24 <blau> no api for google bookmarks grr
Nov 26 13:59:40 <d0netsFN> not that i even know ho
Nov 26 13:59:41 <d0netsFN> w
Nov 26 13:59:43 <SanMehat> no
Nov 26 14:00:32 <d0netsFN> i kinda wanna try it
Nov 26 14:00:56 <SanMehat> uhm.. kay
Nov 26 14:01:00 <d0netsFN> not on him
Nov 26 14:01:07 <SanMehat> try it on yourself
Nov 26 14:01:33 <d0netsFN> but i might get a buddy to try to take me down , and see if another friends phone goes down too
Nov 26 14:01:53 <SanMehat> good stuff
Nov 26 14:03:06 <marix_g1> youd have to take down the mibbit server
Nov 26 14:03:29 <marix_g1> as i dont think im direct connected to the irc room
Nov 26 14:05:44 <marix_g1> is their an option to disable screen lock when plugged in to ac power?
Nov 26 14:06:29 <jbq> there's an option to disable the screen lock entirely, it isn't any less safe :)
Nov 26 14:08:33 <blau> jbq: really?
Nov 26 14:08:35 <marix_g1> safety pssh
Nov 26 14:08:40 <blau> ive been looking for that
Nov 26 14:08:58 <Versed> I have a question, how did the g1 know my phone contacts?
Nov 26 14:09:11 <SanMehat> Versed: magic
Nov 26 14:09:17 <Versed> when I synced, it put them on the phone.  I didn't have them anyware
Nov 26 14:09:19 <blount> it uses FM
Nov 26 14:09:23 <jbq> blau: I think it's in the security-and-lcation settings menu (or whatever it's  called)
Nov 26 14:09:24 <Versed> seems so san
Nov 26 14:09:35 <SanMehat> Versed: it comes from your google mail contacts
Nov 26 14:10:24 <Versed> that would be fine, if I had them in there.
Nov 26 14:10:26 <SanMehat> Versed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG7ciSVMChQ
Nov 26 14:11:32 <Versed> I understand the cloud be between google, gmail and the g1.
Nov 26 14:11:48 <blount> does it pull sim contacts off?
Nov 26 14:12:00 <Versed> I never put my att sim in there.
Nov 26 14:12:03 * blount hasn't put contacts on the sim in years
Nov 26 14:15:23 <blau> 11-26 09:15:00.453: DEBUG/BOOKMARKS***(2822): Content-Type application/x-www-form-urlencoded is not valid.
Nov 26 14:15:24 <blau>  any ideas?
Nov 26 14:15:35 <blau> im not a big http guy
Nov 26 14:15:52 <d03boy> i'm guessing the url form is invalid
Nov 26 14:16:13 <blau> http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/default/private/full is the url
Nov 26 14:17:46 <blau> found someone else getting the same error but n o repsonses to them
Nov 26 14:18:17 <Versed> I mean saves me time having to entering them, I just found it odd.
Nov 26 14:18:40 <blau> its something with the content type
Nov 26 14:18:47 <blau> which i can control
Nov 26 14:18:55 <blau> so what content types is google cal looking for
Nov 26 14:26:35 <blau> 11-26 09:26:23.183: DEBUG/BOOKMARKS***(3344): Content-Type text/plain is not valid.
Nov 26 14:26:36 <blau>  rarrrrrr'
Nov 26 14:30:18 <blau> i can do a client login, but i cant do anything with the results :(
Nov 26 14:52:22 <blau> sigh
Nov 26 14:52:29 <vol_> sigh!
Nov 26 14:52:44 <vol_> has anyone tried using gdbserver on device?
Nov 26 14:53:08 <blau> cant figure out what im doing wrong with connecting to google cal
Nov 26 15:03:32 <blau> sigh tried contacts
Nov 26 15:03:34 <blau> still more errors
Nov 26 15:03:35 <blau> 11-26 10:02:07.972: DEBUG/BOOKMARKS***(4277): ERRORReceived authentication challenge is nulljava.io.IOException: Received authentication challenge is null
Nov 26 15:09:48 <eldenz> blau, does google bookmark support a folder hierarchie, and what features do you plan to add to the android UI?
Nov 26 15:10:05 <eldenz> s/chie/chy/
Nov 26 15:10:05 <infobot> eldenz meant: blau, does google bookmark support a folder hierarchy, and what features do you plan to add to the android UI?
Nov 26 15:13:26 <blau> theres labels
Nov 26 15:13:32 <blau> which are almost like folders
Nov 26 15:13:48 <blau> and what do you man abotu the android UI, in relation to the bookmarks or just the general things i wanted to do
Nov 26 15:14:35 <blau> i didnt think i discussed the ui improvements that were in my head
Nov 26 15:14:36 <eldenz> general... i assume you will provide an interface for android to sync with the bookmarks and display them, open links from there
Nov 26 15:15:06 <blau> it would be a seperate app that would basically be a pretty bookmark manager/launcher
Nov 26 15:15:11 <eldenz> i planned on doing something similar but with opera bookmarks..
Nov 26 15:15:22 <blau> and would sync with google bookmarks,
Nov 26 15:15:28 <blau> just a basic searchable list would be the ui
Nov 26 15:16:29 <blau> havent really thought about the ui too much, been focusing on making sure i can get the damn bookmarks
Nov 26 15:16:35 <eldenz> : )
Nov 26 15:16:45 <blau> but having some problems with googles stuff
Nov 26 15:17:36 <blau> bookmarks get bitching about the content type when i tried to get a list of bookmarks
Nov 26 15:17:51 <blau> btu because its undocumented i decided to try getting calendars instead
Nov 26 15:18:04 <blau> which im having another issue with
Nov 26 15:19:47 <blau> 11-26 10:19:00.993: DEBUG/BOOKMARKS***(4936): ERRORReceived authentication challenge is nulljava.io.IOException: Received authentication challenge is null
Nov 26 15:19:47 <blau> when i try to getinputstream from urlconnection
Nov 26 15:33:36 <blau> i think im getting token invalid
Nov 26 15:34:17 <blau> at least wheni try with telnet thats what i seem to get
Nov 26 15:37:21 <tauno> blau, googled for the error msg... http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/harmony/enhanced/classlib/trunk/modules/luni/src/main/java/org/apache/harmony/luni/internal/net/www/protocol/http/HttpURLConnection.java?diff_format=s&revision=415701&view=markup&pathrev=415701 -> look for "Received authentication challenge is null"
Nov 26 15:37:34 <tauno> have no idea if that's going to help you :P
Nov 26 15:37:39 <tauno> I guess not
Nov 26 15:40:09 <blau> nope :(
Nov 26 15:40:49 <tauno> where's the source for java.net.* anyway in git?
Nov 26 15:41:01 <jbq> lemme find that for you
Nov 26 15:41:38 <jbq> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/dalvik.git;a=tree;f=libcore/luni/src/main/java/java/net;h=1e55c9df85ab1ee9a6ac7f99232a1b3b885143e9;hb=master
Nov 26 15:42:16 <tauno> thank you, you human searchmachine
Nov 26 15:43:08 <jbq> Well, I've walked a fair bit around the source tree, so I know where to find a thing of two.
Nov 26 15:43:53 <tauno> was searching there and found x-net but overlooked luni :/
Nov 26 15:44:59 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 26 15:46:09 <tauno> one day, I promise, I'll download the source so I can do a local search for stuff..
Nov 26 15:46:13 <tauno> (:
Nov 26 15:46:46 <jbq> Yeah, that'd make your life a tiny bit easier for such cases.
Nov 26 15:47:17 <jbq> and *shudder* you might even compile it and run it!
Nov 26 15:49:28 <tauno> jbq, if only I had time for this.. I would be very happy to fix some small bugs that I have found or add some simple things to.. stuff.. if only I had time to do it :(
Nov 26 15:49:47 <jbq> yeah, I understand.
Nov 26 15:50:06 <blau> i cant seem to make a make a valid request with a clientlogin auth token
Nov 26 15:50:08 <tauno> (ok.. now going trough the source to find, where they use Msg.getString("KA016") :) )
Nov 26 15:50:52 <andreaf> sorry what is the intent to use to match a single key pressed for "long" time ?
Nov 26 15:54:59 <tauno> ..found it
Nov 26 15:56:39 <jasta> andreaf: is there such an intent?
Nov 26 15:57:22 <andreaf> jasta: mmm, i good question, I would like to intercept in background a single key pressed (5 on the keyboard)
Nov 26 15:57:54 <andreaf> jasta: and send a call pressing only this key. such a "rapid call" on normal handsets
Nov 26 15:58:20 <jbq> you can't monitor the keyboard while in the background (that'd cause huge security holes)
Nov 26 15:58:38 <jasta> andreaf: this would be a feature for the home screen and dialer app to support directly, not you.
Nov 26 15:58:56 <jasta> you could add it to the dialer app and see if google agrees and add it to the home app as well
Nov 26 15:59:46 <andreaf> jbp: is a restriction of android  ?
Nov 26 15:59:47 <jasta> also, you could just use AnyCut to put a bunch of people on your home screen to dial them easier
Nov 26 16:00:06 <andreaf> jasta: AnyCut ? i'm googling
Nov 26 16:00:21 <jbq> andreaf: yes, by design. Otherwise you could write an app that monitors everything that is typed on the keyboard in other applications (messages, passwords, etc...)
Nov 26 16:00:31 <jasta> it lets you make shortcuts to arbitrary intents, specifically it can get you shortcuts to particular contacts, or even to dial the number immediately
Nov 26 16:00:47 <tauno> jasta, no need for anycut - the home app can handle this itself :)
Nov 26 16:00:59 <jasta> tauno: no it can't.  it can only put a contact there.
Nov 26 16:01:14 <blau> you can use dgQuickCut too
Nov 26 16:01:16 <tauno> ..oh that's not what you wanted, sry
Nov 26 16:01:17 <jasta> anycut can put a shortcut to dial a number, which is quite different
Nov 26 16:01:29 <blau> QuickCut requires you to press search+a button though
Nov 26 16:01:59 <andreaf> tauno ? sorry ? I would like a sort of "emergency button" pressing a single key the phone will call a number directly
Nov 26 16:04:39 <jasta> andreaf: i suggested a home screen icon.  thats the best you're going to get :)
Nov 26 16:05:02 <blau> QuickCut allows you to setup quicklaunch shortcuts to calls and text messages
Nov 26 16:05:13 <blau> you hold the search button and press a letter on the keyboard
Nov 26 16:05:17 <andreaf> jasta: ok. and I can put an homescreen icons with  normal android SDK ?
Nov 26 16:05:19 <blau> 2 keys
Nov 26 16:05:52 <jbq> andreaf: yes (I think). Any app can publish shortcuts as homescreen icons.
Nov 26 16:06:21 <andreaf> jbq: ok i will check on docs thanks.
Nov 26 16:07:02 <blau> sigh
Nov 26 16:08:35 <blau> like half the reviews for QuickCut say anycut can do the same thing
Nov 26 16:08:37 <blau> and it cant
Nov 26 16:08:46 <jasta> andreaf: as i said, AnyCut can do this right now.l
Nov 26 16:08:47 <blau> they dont have a single overlapping function
Nov 26 16:09:34 <KNY> blau, they have an overlapping name ;)
Nov 26 16:10:04 <blau> CUT it out, you know what i mean
Nov 26 16:13:17 <blau> anyone got source for toggling gps?
Nov 26 16:18:31 <blau> lol
Nov 26 16:18:39 <blau> someone posted the most ridiculous vibrate string for my app
Nov 26 16:18:47 <blau> and i actually checked it out
Nov 26 16:18:49 <blau> its need
Nov 26 16:20:16 <marix_g1> its need?
Nov 26 16:20:57 <blau> neat!
Nov 26 16:20:58 <blau> lol
Nov 26 16:21:17 <marix_g1> ah
Nov 26 16:22:00 <blau> i think the stats are still way off in the market developer console :(
Nov 26 16:23:00 <blau> like one of my apps hasless than half the active installs as another
Nov 26 16:23:09 <blau> but percntage wise, twice the number of reviews
Nov 26 16:23:19 <blau> and its rated better
Nov 26 16:26:37 <marix_g1> which apps are yours?
Nov 26 16:26:45 <blau> dgQuickCut, dgAlert, and dgMoney
Nov 26 16:26:46 <KNY> dg*
Nov 26 16:27:00 <blau> yeah just search for dg and ignore the bank of america app
Nov 26 16:27:39 <marix_g1> i have  an idea for an app but dont know if it would be possible
Nov 26 16:27:39 <marix_g1> how fast does the accelerometer update
Nov 26 16:28:01 <blau> fast
Nov 26 16:28:41 <blau> i gotta head out
Nov 26 16:29:14 <blau> ill catch you guys later
Nov 26 16:30:36 <tauno> I'm sure he won't catch me..
Nov 26 16:30:58 <tauno> I'm not trycatchable
Nov 26 16:31:13 <synalx> haha
Nov 26 16:31:17 <synalx> you're an uncatchable exception?
Nov 26 16:37:29 <tauno> synalx, yeah.. at least that's what my mother used to tell me
Nov 26 16:39:09 <Disconnect> cool. got the phone advertising dialup neworking, just need to get pppd configured and i'm properly tethered :)
Nov 26 16:39:24 <synalx> :o
Nov 26 16:39:29 <synalx> now that's cool :P
Nov 26 16:39:32 <synalx> how'd you do that?
Nov 26 16:41:10 <synalx> Disconnect: advertising dialup networking via bluetooth?
Nov 26 16:41:15 <Disconnect> yah
Nov 26 16:41:49 <synalx> they have bluetooth in the SDK now?
Nov 26 16:41:53 <marix_g1> whoa, what?
Nov 26 16:42:33 <Disconnect> nope
Nov 26 16:43:24 <synalx> so you bypassed the SDK?
Nov 26 16:44:01 * infernix cries
Nov 26 16:44:08 <infernix> damn you RC30
Nov 26 16:44:22 <infernix> tetherbutt is soo meh
Nov 26 16:44:26 <cmonex> you installed it accidentally?
Nov 26 16:44:34 <infernix> no it came with it
Nov 26 16:45:03 <VersedG1> afternoon all
Nov 26 16:45:20 <infernix> i hope it won't take too long
Nov 26 16:45:21 <marix_g1> ello
Nov 26 16:46:17 <cmonex> what wont take too long?
Nov 26 16:46:25 <infernix> breaking RC30
Nov 26 16:46:33 <infernix> or figuring how to flash through SPL off sdcard
Nov 26 16:47:05 <synalx> i think you guys are going about things the wrong way though
Nov 26 16:47:18 <marix_g1> whats tgat?
Nov 26 16:47:25 <Disconnect> synalx: what do you suggest?
Nov 26 16:47:40 <synalx> should be pressuring Google to give devs access to features that you want, rather than trying to find ways around their protection
Nov 26 16:47:50 <synalx> that will inevitably be broken in the next update
Nov 26 16:48:09 * Disconnect is on rc30, its not broken..
Nov 26 16:48:20 <Disconnect> er, the way around isn't broken :)
Nov 26 16:48:21 <jbq> well, in this case it's not as much Google as the entire Android community.
Nov 26 16:48:22 <synalx> yeah, i was talking to infernix ;)
Nov 26 16:48:47 <infernix> well i am sure that Google dev priorities are way different than mine
Nov 26 16:48:49 <Disconnect> google is (sure, for now, etc but still..) being very closed about whats going on with android, access, etc.
Nov 26 16:48:59 <infernix> so even if i would ask them
Nov 26 16:49:05 <Disconnect> and remember that for g1, tmob has the final say as to what is possible.
Nov 26 16:49:07 <infernix> i don't expect that to happen soon
Nov 26 16:49:24 <jbq> Disconnect: yes, at the moment Google's Android work isn't nearly as open as it needs to be.
Nov 26 16:49:26 <Disconnect> so if they say "no tethering" then.. well.. no tethering.
Nov 26 16:49:35 <synalx> so have they even said anything about the state of the bluetooth sdk?
Nov 26 16:49:52 <infernix> Disconnect: isnt the bt stack on G1 a bit dated?
Nov 26 16:50:25 <Disconnect> 'dated' how? its standard bluez.
Nov 26 16:50:31 <andyross> The G1 has the same bluetooth stack as desktop linux distros.
Nov 26 16:50:52 <infernix> hm. i heard someone state that some of the bt stuff still lives in kernel instead of userspace
Nov 26 16:51:17 <infernix> not having root i havent bothered checking that
Nov 26 16:51:22 <andyross> No, the driver is in the kernel.  Everything above L2CAP (what there is of it, anyway, sigh) is in userspace.
Nov 26 16:51:26 <Nafai> Am I correct in that the G1 does not support stereo bluetooth?
Nov 26 16:51:27 <jbq> you can just read the source code :)
Nov 26 16:51:36 <jbq> Nafai: correct.
Nov 26 16:52:35 <synalx> so Disconnect, are you hacking your phone to support this, or is it a straightforward app that can be released on the market?
Nov 26 16:53:01 <marix_g1> so how are you getting it to broadcast dun?
Nov 26 16:55:56 <Disconnect> with dund
Nov 26 16:55:59 <Disconnect> how else?
Nov 26 16:59:24 <marix_g1> so, just starting the daemon?
Nov 26 16:59:24 <marix_g1> didnt realize it was that easy i guess
Nov 26 16:59:35 <marix_g1> synalx, dont expect a market app anytime soon
Nov 26 17:00:10 <Disconnect> its mostly that easy
Nov 26 17:00:20 <Disconnect> or will be once i have a working pppd config and NAT set up
Nov 26 17:01:15 <eldenz> meeh, going crazy, can't figure out how to delete a category in TooDo
Nov 26 17:01:58 <marix_g1> does the daemon dictate device power?
Nov 26 17:01:58 <marix_g1> or will it have to be enabled in android first
Nov 26 17:03:32 * infernix considers camping ebay for RC29
Nov 26 17:04:35 <eldenz> aaaah, long prssing trackball.. oO
Nov 26 17:04:51 <eldenz> and i tried long tooching
Nov 26 17:41:31 <infernix> is there any way to monitor the data traffic used, perhaps even per month?
Nov 26 17:41:47 <zhobbs> probably through your carrier
Nov 26 17:42:10 <infernix> t-mobile netherlands can't do that.
Nov 26 17:42:22 <infernix> which is lame, but doesn't help me ;)
Nov 26 17:42:42 <infernix> im paying 60 euros/mo for 3.6 down 1.4 up unlimited data but i'm not getting that anywhere
Nov 26 17:43:09 <infernix> so switching back to 2mbit down 384k up with 1GB/mo data limit so need to keep an eye on traffic
Nov 26 17:44:00 * infernix wonders if that info is retrievable in the sdk at all...
Nov 26 17:47:28 <andyross> infernix: There is a count of bytes for each device in /proc/net/dev.  Not sure if it gets reset when the radio switches cells or not, but an application to poll that would get you a pretty good approximation.  Doing that without hosing the battery would be a little harder; maybe there's a notification API that can be hooked?
Nov 26 17:48:30 <infernix> maybe. guess i'll have to start coding
Nov 26 17:49:35 <andyross> Mine is reporting 1.366MB received, and I haven't used anything but a wifi network with the phone for the last 12 hours or so.  So my guess is that the count is reasonably robust.
Nov 26 17:56:49 <Disconnect> http://pastebin.ca/1267751
Nov 26 18:06:28 <KNY> Disconnect, impressive
Nov 26 18:06:34 <KNY> now do it without root :)
Nov 26 18:08:13 <Disconnect> ok. install a module...oops, can't. then run pand...oops. and iptabl...oops. sorry, you'll have to live without tethering and such, just like all the iphone users. at least until/unless tmob performs a total 180 on their attitudes about it.
Nov 26 18:09:19 <KNY> heh
Nov 26 18:13:46 <infernix> did anyone break off the usb cap yet?
Nov 26 18:13:51 <infernix> i feel like ripping off the sucker
Nov 26 18:14:09 <infernix> it'll wear and tear off in time anyway
Nov 26 18:14:34 <andyross> Mine is still on, but yeah: I fully expect it to get snagged on something soon enough.
Nov 26 18:18:37 <jt436> nope mine's been going strong for ages, its a strong little bugger
Nov 26 18:19:05 <wastrel> i've been treating that thing very carefully
Nov 26 18:19:42 <andyross> The sdcard door is even worse, but happily that really only needs to be opened once.
Nov 26 18:25:32 <unix_lappy> andyross: well some people are likely going to be getting 2x4GB this weekend so that's not universally true.
Nov 26 18:25:39 <unix_lappy> i'm guessing that you got a 16GB card?
Nov 26 18:25:53 <andyross> Yeah.
Nov 26 18:26:25 <Nafai> You can use 16GB cards?
Nov 26 18:27:23 <andyross> My phone says so, yeah.
Nov 26 18:31:02 <Nafai> Awesome
Nov 26 18:31:08 <xsdg> infernix: I'm fairly confident that it'll generally stay on unless you intentionally pull it off.
Nov 26 18:31:47 * Nafai tries to find 16GB cards
Nov 26 18:32:14 <andyross> They're shipping now.  I got mine from an eBay seller.  You might be able to find one retail at this point.
Nov 26 18:33:36 <Disconnect> i'd get one but i told the wif i'd wait until the music app could be used in the jeep. (or at all really)
Nov 26 18:34:22 <andyross> It works well enough.  I have a 7G tree of files on the card, and it manages.
Nov 26 18:34:40 <Nafai> Something like this? http://www.amazon.com/SVP-Capacity-Digital-Xthinn-1056-Cameras/dp/B001C32AC0/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1227724455&sr=1-33
Nov 26 18:35:30 <andyross> Who's SVP?  So far SanDisk is the only manufacturer shipping these, I think.
Nov 26 18:35:40 <Nafai> Oh
Nov 26 18:35:52 <andyross> Ah. Note that this is an SD card, not microSDHC
Nov 26 18:36:14 <Disconnect> andyross: the 3way splitter makes it epileptic
Nov 26 18:36:37 <Nafai> http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-SDSDQ-016G-E11M-16GB-microSDHC-Card/dp/B001F7AJKI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1227724584&sr=8-1 <- This?
Nov 26 18:36:58 <andyross> Yes, that. :)
Nov 26 18:37:19 <Nafai> Thanks for the tip
Nov 26 18:45:30 <unix_lappy> andyross: SD Card?
Nov 26 18:45:57 <unix_lappy> erf, nvm.
Nov 26 19:02:02 <eldenz> does UK have start of week at Sunday?
Nov 26 19:03:45 <Disconnect> afair technically all english-speaking countries do, but actual usage varies by country (and even by user - for my business calendars I use monday as beginning of week, but personal stuff its sunday)
Nov 26 19:09:14 <eldenz> okay, thanks. does for anyone the android calendar respect the google calendar setting for start of week? i have it set to Monday but android starts at Sun nevertheless (in both Week and Month view)
Nov 26 19:10:31 <KNY> eldenz, I would bet it's hard-coded to sunday
Nov 26 19:10:37 * Disconnect agrees
Nov 26 19:10:41 <KNY> though I'd have to check the source to be sure
Nov 26 19:10:49 <eldenz> hm, that's a pity
Nov 26 19:11:02 <KNY> yeah, there are some shortcomings with the calendar app
Nov 26 19:11:09 <KNY> and maps
Nov 26 19:14:24 <Disconnect> ..and everything :)
Nov 26 19:17:17 <mpardo> does anyone know of a project skeleton for a GL game?
Nov 26 19:34:02 <KNY> Disconnect, yeah, but those two strike me as odd because they're just layers over already popular google services
Nov 26 19:35:20 <Disconnect> there are some shortcomings with a ton of stuff tho. gmail is pretty solidly behind it's j2me bretheren with only supporting 1 account.. email flat doesn't work for 99% of the people out there (more detail finally came out, if you have to enter server info manually its broken..nice one.. so again i point the finger at crappy testing.)
Nov 26 19:35:51 <KNY> yeah, Email is pretty crappy
Nov 26 19:37:24 <Disconnect> its funny, if you say that during the week one of the googlers pees himself insisting that somehow testing was perfect and they tested production units but that bug appeared as if by magic as soon as it was released..
Nov 26 19:38:00 * jbq sighs
Nov 26 19:38:03 <andyross> email works for me.  Not hugely featureful, but it works with my dovecot server just fine.
Nov 26 19:38:17 <Lieutenant> anyone here good at mirc scripting?
Nov 26 19:38:55 <KNY> andyross, it works for me, but I get blank emails from people all the time when they send from their app
Nov 26 19:39:14 <KNY> also, what's with them base64-encoding plaintext?
Nov 26 19:39:16 <KNY> haha
Nov 26 19:40:36 <Disconnect> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/858ca6d7a6f38ccf andrew stadler "if your account was set up manually then delete will fail.  If your account was setup automatically (there is a small built-in list of email providers and account settings) then delete will work"
Nov 26 19:41:18 * Disconnect thinks that would be critical enough to have made it into rc28, rc29 or rc30...
Nov 26 19:41:22 <jbq> Disconnect: yup, that's correct. That's a horrible bug, and sadly it wasn't discovered before shipping because that's really a simple one-line fix.
Nov 26 19:41:45 <andyross> Guess I haven't tried delete. :)
Nov 26 19:41:49 <jbq> Disconnect: it wasn't discovered in time for RC28, and beyond that the updates were purely security fixes.
Nov 26 19:42:10 <andyross> Is it in git?  We could just rebuild the app ourselves...
Nov 26 19:42:21 <Disconnect> fwiw it was reported (repeatedly and vigorously :) ..) well before rc28.
Nov 26 19:42:41 <Disconnect> i guess its not technically insecure when it won't let you delete mail. :)
Nov 26 19:42:54 <jbq> Disconnect: RC28 was frozen before the first devices hit users.
Nov 26 19:43:00 <Disconnect> ah
Nov 26 19:43:02 <KNY> Disconnect, as a developer, I'm on Google's side here--just because you find a fix before it ships doesn't mean you have time to get it ---yeah, what jbq said
Nov 26 19:43:18 <jbq> andyross: I can try to push that specific change manually if you'd like.
Nov 26 19:43:47 <andyross> Not a big deal for me, honestly.  But just in general, it'd be nice if the simple fixes ended up in the public tree sooner rather than later.
Nov 26 19:43:56 <Disconnect> rc30 had patches for half the apps on there. lemme dig out the change summary that eventually came up. (ISTR it included way more than security but that coudl be wrong..)
Nov 26 19:44:36 <jbq> andyross: definitely. we're trying to shorten the delay from its current near-infinite value to near-real-time (or entirely real-time when it makes sense)
Nov 26 19:45:00 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 26 19:45:33 <jbq> Disconnect: RC30 had only 2 fixed in libwebkit, and the stuff for the root shell on the console. If other files were affected, that was only a side effect of the build process.
Nov 26 19:46:33 <Disconnect> yah just found it.
Nov 26 19:48:02 <Disconnect> and looking at the patch, there are 20-30k patches to basically every app but thats pretty small realistically.. so.. :)
Nov 26 19:48:21 <Disconnect> except webcore of course
Nov 26 19:49:16 <Disconnect> so i'd love to see rc31 fix some of the core problems :) but its not happening today. (i guess they -could- roll it out over the holiday but that seems somewhat insane.. :) ..)
Nov 26 19:49:21 <jbq> It'd be good to figure out why all the apps ended up being patched when nothing should have changed that affected them (so that future incremental updates can be even smaller).
Nov 26 19:50:25 <jbq> Disconnect: a holiday would be a pretty bad time to roll out an update (what if something goes wrong?!?)
Nov 26 19:50:27 <Disconnect> ..future incremental updates should only include actual changes :) which means specifically excluding files that should be unchanged
Nov 26 19:50:30 <Disconnect> yah thats my point
Nov 26 19:52:47 <Disconnect> looks like almost all of it should be unnecessary - if webkit API doesn't change, then 300k of framework/ 760k of app/ goes away, leaving only 370k of lib
Nov 26 19:55:04 <Disconnect> lol. "setprop ARGH ARGH"
Nov 26 19:57:00 <Damm> setprop Disconnect is unhappy
Nov 26 19:57:27 <Disconnect> yah but thats more about the terrible singers on rockband behind me than about android ATM.
Nov 26 19:57:35 <Disconnect> i'm pretty pleased to have tethering working properly.
Nov 26 19:59:21 <joshuamc> hi. how do i test my app. on my actual device?
Nov 26 19:59:32 <Damm> Disconnect, tethering?
Nov 26 19:59:48 <Disconnect> Damm: http://pastebin.ca/1267751
Nov 26 19:59:53 <Disconnect> Damm: proper bluetooth PAN support
Nov 26 20:00:40 <Disconnect> like a big-boy cellphone, none of this usb and socks mess :)
Nov 26 20:01:40 <joshuamc> how do i test my app on my device?
Nov 26 20:01:48 <joshuamc> as in how do i get it onto the g1
Nov 26 20:03:22 <Disconnect>  adb install
Nov 26 20:03:43 <Disconnect> and anyone know what came of that g1-hijacking problem that was cropping up this morning?
Nov 26 20:03:49 <Damm> Disconnect, very sexy.
Nov 26 20:03:52 <Damm> Disconnect, require root to do?
Nov 26 20:04:06 * Disconnect expects its just tmob proxies being crappy again but.. (it once dumped a bunch of porn into my dailystrips feed.. sigh)
Nov 26 20:04:34 <Disconnect> Damm: as i told kny when he said to do it w/o root :)  ok. install a module...oops, can't. then run pand...oops. and iptabl...oops. sorry, you'll have to live without tethering and such, just like all the iphone users. at least until/unless tmob performs a total 180 on their attitudes about it.
Nov 26 20:04:39 <Disconnect> so yah its total root
Nov 26 20:05:12 <Disconnect> and requires an external module (stock kernel mod, just not enabled) and a couple of built-but-not-shipped tools (pand, iptables)
Nov 26 20:05:21 <Damm> Disconnect, still not bad.  I imagine we'll find a way to get root on post RC30.
Nov 26 20:05:32 <Damm> just gotta motivate users
Nov 26 20:05:33 <Disconnect> i'm hoping.
Nov 26 20:06:05 <Disconnect> plenty of users are motivated. mutliball will be an even better one. its getting the hackers motivated thats hard, most of them stuck with rc29 or modded rc30s :)
Nov 26 20:07:42 <jbq> gah - last-minute stuff hitting my plate right on a deadline.
Nov 26 20:09:53 <MrSnowflake> hi guys
Nov 26 20:09:54 <Disconnect> my office is playing rockband. badly.
Nov 26 20:10:21 <MrSnowflake> I have this problem using a ScrollView inside a ViewAnimator insida a LinLayout
Nov 26 20:10:47 <MrSnowflake> In the linLayout I have another linLayout at the bottom containing 2 buttons, which need to stay at the bottom of the screen, always
Nov 26 20:11:14 <MrSnowflake> but when the scrollview grows bigger than the screen, the scrollview obscures the bottom linlayout or it goes under the lin layout
Nov 26 20:11:35 <MrSnowflake> making it impossible to use the last couple of views in the scrollview
Nov 26 20:11:44 <MrSnowflake> anyone an idea how to work around this?
Nov 26 20:12:01 <Disconnect> jbq: it loses alot without audio :( http://link.sigkill.net/rockband.jpg
Nov 26 20:12:35 <jbq> heh
Nov 26 20:12:51 <Disconnect> MrSnowflake: i munged something up with lin<sv weight><lin weight horiz<buttons> /> />
Nov 26 20:13:12 <Disconnect> actually it loses a lot with the g1 camera, too :)
Nov 26 20:13:46 <MrSnowflake> Thanks Disconnect, what's your finding
Nov 26 20:14:32 <Disconnect> MrSnowflake: that munging something up with lin-vert [ (scrollview w/ weight){lin horiz w/ weight<button><button>} ] worked for me. but it took some tweaking.
Nov 26 20:15:09 <MrSnowflake> hmm... scrollview with weight, I'll try it
Nov 26 20:15:45 <Disconnect> weight keeps it from taking over
Nov 26 20:17:02 <MrSnowflake> what's the weight on the last lin?
Nov 26 20:17:12 <MrSnowflake> as only a weight on the scroll doesn't help
Nov 26 20:18:46 <Disconnect> i did them at 60/30 but it doesn't matter too much afaik. height=0px weight=60 / height=0px weight=30
Nov 26 20:19:06 <MrSnowflake> you forced height too?
Nov 26 20:19:26 <Disconnect> weight only applies to the dimension with size 0
Nov 26 20:20:19 <MrSnowflake> ? how's that? it works without setting the height
Nov 26 20:20:26 <MrSnowflake> anyway
Nov 26 20:20:32 <MrSnowflake> using you tip it works now
Nov 26 20:20:52 <MrSnowflake> I had set the gravity on the scrollview, where it should have been on the viewanimator and it works now
Nov 26 20:20:55 <MrSnowflake> thanks man!!!
Nov 26 20:21:03 <Disconnect> http://code.google.com/android/devel/ui/layout.html
Nov 26 20:21:59 <MrSnowflake> there's nothing about the height=0
Nov 26 20:22:16 <Disconnect> read the tip
Nov 26 20:22:42 <MrSnowflake> Hehe, ok, sorry
Nov 26 20:22:50 <MrSnowflake> Thanks!
Nov 26 20:22:50 <joeyjones> "Tip: To create a proportionate size layout on the screen, create a container object that is fill_parent, assign the children heights or widths of zero, and then assign relative weight values to each child, depending on what proportion of the screen each should take."
Nov 26 20:23:07 <MrSnowflake> I do have it open :p
Nov 26 20:23:15 <joshuamc> for some reason, my apk is zero bytes when i export it
Nov 26 20:23:20 <joshuamc> anyone know why?
Nov 26 20:23:21 <joeyjones> just making sure :p
Nov 26 20:23:44 <MrSnowflake> :)
Nov 26 20:23:52 <joshuamc> ?
Nov 26 20:23:59 <MrSnowflake> joshuamc: no errors?
Nov 26 20:24:40 <joshuamc> none
Nov 26 20:24:47 <joshuamc> its basically a hello world app
Nov 26 20:24:55 <joshuamc> im trying to get it to where i can export it to my phone
Nov 26 20:25:00 <joshuamc> no errors and it works fine in the emulator
Nov 26 20:25:14 <joshuamc> right clicked on the project > android tools> export
Nov 26 20:25:18 <joshuamc> but its always zero bytes
Nov 26 20:25:32 <Disconnect> if its running in the emu eclipse created an apk already, you can fish it out of workspace/app/...../bin if you want
Nov 26 20:26:37 <MrSnowflake> Disconnect: The scrollview layouts perfect now, but I have a button in it, I had at lay_weight=1 for it to occupy the whole whidth (it were 2 buttons before) but now it only wraps the content, even with width=0px
Nov 26 20:27:01 <joshuamc> no when i push, it says failed: read-only file system
Nov 26 20:27:17 <joshuamc> cannot i use ddms to push the apk?
Nov 26 20:27:27 <MrSnowflake> joshuamc: you should have your phone in debug to push stuff through adb
Nov 26 20:27:39 <MrSnowflake> afaik
Nov 26 20:28:05 <joshuamc> i have usb debugging enabled
Nov 26 20:29:19 <Disconnect> joshuamc: push? use 'adb install'
Nov 26 20:29:56 <joshuamc> how do i do that  - in eclipse?
Nov 26 20:30:20 <andyross> Uh... fire up a terminal and type the command?  It's hardly difficult...
Nov 26 20:30:38 <Disconnect> close the emulator and run the app again, it'll use the device. but i'm guessing you haven't got the right drivers.
Nov 26 20:30:51 <joshuamc> gotcha
Nov 26 20:31:31 <budwaa2> anyone else using mibbit on g1?
Nov 26 20:31:49 <joshuamc> sweet
Nov 26 20:31:53 <joshuamc> it installed
Nov 26 20:35:24 <Rimdar_Klall> Howdy folks. I'm in the market for a G1 and don't want to switch to T-Mobile. Is there a working jailbreak/unlock out there? From what I've seen, RC30 was supposed to keep that from happening.
Nov 26 20:35:30 <MrSnowflake> still strange it didn't work from eclipse
Nov 26 20:36:24 <budwaa2> any  irc clients for android yet?
Nov 26 20:36:46 <budwaa2> r30 stopped a root exploit
Nov 26 20:36:59 <budwaa2> not sure about unlocking
Nov 26 20:37:11 <romainguy> Rimdar_Klall: RC30 just fixes an exploit that gives you root access
Nov 26 20:37:20 <romainguy> it has nothing to do with unlocking etc.
Nov 26 20:38:05 <Disconnect> and there is a perfectly fine unlock for tmob customers - call 611. for non-tmob customers there is a well-advertised site that sells codes. 1.5 seconds of googling will turn it up.
Nov 26 20:38:13 <dcordes> hi, where can I find a complete dump of the g1 shipped rootfs? (no matter which revision, updated or not)
Nov 26 20:38:20 <Disconnect> anyway its time for holiday. :) ttyl!
Nov 26 20:38:37 <Disconnect> dcordes: you can extract it from the rc30 full upgrade zip (or jf's modified version)
Nov 26 20:38:49 <Disconnect> anyway really off now :) someone here should be able to get you links for those
Nov 26 20:38:53 <dcordes> Disconnect, where?
Nov 26 20:39:08 <dcordes> don't know jf
Nov 26 20:39:28 <Rimdar_Klall> After looking, I found the unlock site. But elsewhere is warning me you have to activate with T-Mo first?
Nov 26 20:40:42 <andyross> dcordes: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=G1+RC30+download
Nov 26 20:42:06 <uscheller> lol @?letmegooglethatforyou
Nov 26 20:43:37 <dcordes> lol moron
Nov 26 20:44:50 <Rimdar_Klall> Well, I have another question. Are there, or are there in development, any geocaching applications for Android?
Nov 26 20:45:05 <spikebike> there's 1 or 2 in the store
Nov 26 20:46:05 <Rimdar_Klall> Oooh... (goes to look)
Nov 26 20:47:15 <joeyjones> lol
Nov 26 20:47:30 <Rimdar_Klall> An I able to see these apps without having a G1? I think I found the market site but searching for geocache and geocaching got nothing.
Nov 26 20:47:59 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: no
Nov 26 20:48:00 <spikebike> Not that I know of, I keep intending to sniff a connection to the app store
Nov 26 20:48:12 <spikebike> using wireshark or similar
Nov 26 20:48:19 <joeyjones> Rimdar_Klall: it won't be called that anyway
Nov 26 20:48:33 <joeyjones> i think that there's an online version of the app store
Nov 26 20:50:05 <Rimdar_Klall> is there a way to search for applications like that?
Nov 26 20:50:21 <Rimdar_Klall> Why wouldn't I be able to just search for a keyword like that and find something...
Nov 26 20:53:00 <joeyjones> Rimdar_Klall: because the site's likely setup to search app names
Nov 26 20:53:12 <joeyjones> so browse around a bit
Nov 26 20:54:52 <Rimdar_Klall> Mmk, do you happen to know the app store's online site?
Nov 26 20:55:41 <languish> <joeyjones> i think that there's an online version of the app store
Nov 26 20:55:44 <languish> no there is not.
Nov 26 20:55:53 <Lieutenant> how do i add a delay to a script? i want to say /part #channel, but i want to wait 2 seconds
Nov 26 20:55:54 <joeyjones> well, a listing of apps
Nov 26 20:55:58 <languish> Not the Android Market.
Nov 26 20:56:11 <languish> There are non-google markets with android apps.
Nov 26 20:56:24 <languish> they will not necessarily havw the same apps/content as the Android Market on the G1's
Nov 26 20:56:46 <thesquib> Does anyone know of decent documentation regarding Cursors?
Nov 26 20:56:50 <languish> there are also forums and websites such as android-dsl.com
Nov 26 20:56:55 <languish> err
Nov 26 20:57:04 <languish>  android-dls.com
Nov 26 20:57:08 <languish> :?
Nov 26 20:57:31 <Rimdar_Klall> hmm
Nov 26 20:57:35 <Rimdar_Klall> I think I found what i'm looking for, thanksall
Nov 26 21:33:21 <raidfive> is it possible to query for a single location update instead of using location listeners? I just need to grab the location once and the listeners seem like a bit much
Nov 26 21:48:28 <budwaa> So android is open source. But i cant modify the source and use it on my G1 because theres no root access on the G1. So for the purposes of the G1 is the fact that android is open source totally irrelevant? I cant see that the ability to code apps for android requires it to be open source?
Nov 26 21:49:11 <jbq> budwaa: correct. The G1 is not an open device.
Nov 26 21:50:06 <jbq> you can build modified versions of a few of the apps from the source code and install them on a G1, but that won't get you far.
Nov 26 21:50:47 <budwaa> Do you think the G1 might ever be opened up
Nov 26 21:51:07 <budwaa> I take it thats probably a ball in t-mobiles court?
Nov 26 21:51:25 <jbq> Correct. That's a T-Mobile device.
Nov 26 21:52:04 <jbq> That's why I'd really really like to see a port to some other (open) device.
Nov 26 21:52:42 <budwaa> Do t-mobile feel its a way to prevent abuse of their network? Or possibly a way to protect their customers from abuse.
Nov 26 21:52:54 <wastrel> i imagine it's a bit of both
Nov 26 21:53:06 <budwaa> Hrrm
Nov 26 21:53:31 <wastrel> i am however completely ignorant so, just speculation :]
Nov 26 21:54:05 <jbq> I'd have to speculate a fair bit as well, and I'd rather not speculate. That'd really be a question for them.
Nov 26 21:54:22 <budwaa> Nothing wrong with speculation as long as its treated as such..
Nov 26 21:54:33 <xsdg> budwaa: that's not exactly true :o)
Nov 26 21:54:53 <budwaa> How so?
Nov 26 21:55:15 <jbq> It's too easy to get (mis-)quoted out of context.
Nov 26 21:55:16 <xsdg> or, at least, it's hard to differentiate speculation from statement-as-fact.  So it's hard to make sure the "it's treated as such" clause remains in effect
Nov 26 21:55:22 * xsdg nods at jbq
Nov 26 21:55:50 <budwaa> Well thats exactly my point :D Thats an issue when speculation is treated as somthing else :d
Nov 26 21:56:26 <budwaa> but w/e i agree with both of your statements anyway. I guess in some cases its just best not to bother..
Nov 26 21:57:21 <tarelerulz> Have any of you played videos you ripped on the g1 ?
Nov 26 21:57:26 <budwaa> yop
Nov 26 21:57:53 <budwaa> Got playback issues?
Nov 26 21:59:07 <tarelerulz>  budwaa, What where the spec of the  vidoe ?  I know it plays h264 and does mp3 .  Not much more then that
Nov 26 21:59:44 <budwaa> "We want to be open in a way that consumers can rely on," T-Mobile CTO Cole Brodman told Wired's Daniel Roth. Translation: We don't really want to be open.
Nov 26 21:59:57 <budwaa> Interesting...not sure of the source however :d
Nov 26 22:00:06 <budwaa> 480x270 resolution
Nov 26 22:00:27 <budwaa> Lemme check the codec. I used avidemux and i think mpeg4(lavc)
Nov 26 22:00:31 <eldenz> if you look at the videoplayer app in the market and its description it states the ~requirements
Nov 26 22:01:09 <eldenz> it's 3gp/mp4 as container, H.264/H.263 as video codec and AAC/MP3/AMR as audio codec iirc
Nov 26 22:01:35 <mikey|> with the g1, do you have to install apps with adb when installing from the desktop?
Nov 26 22:01:45 <eldenz> resolution <=480x320
Nov 26 22:01:45 <jbq> One of any carrier's primary concerns is about the number of calls to customer support. Each of those is very expensive for them.
Nov 26 22:02:11 <budwaa> Who needs to talk to customer support when u have an intenet full of far more knowledgeable ppl....
Nov 26 22:02:25 <budwaa> Im sure if u care that the G1 is open you know that...
Nov 26 22:02:41 <jbq> I don't think that every G1 user is on this channel ;-)
Nov 26 22:02:56 <budwaa> This channel !=the internet
Nov 26 22:03:03 <budwaa> but u are very clever!
Nov 26 22:03:30 <eldenz> (err, resolution is 480x352 or lower)
Nov 26 22:03:55 <budwaa> I dunno i would sign a form saying that i will have an open phone but I will not hassle t-mobile for support on software issues :D
Nov 26 22:04:00 <jbq> I was just a bit facetious. But direct customer support is the first solution that many users think of first, and it's expensive.
Nov 26 22:04:53 <budwaa> Yeah, totally agree. But i think that the kind of user that would hit t-mobile customer support for help prob isnt the same user that will be modifiying androids code :D
Nov 26 22:05:13 <jbq> Anyway, the G1 isn't open enough for some good framework hacking, and speculating about the reasons isn't gonna change the hard fact.
Nov 26 22:05:42 <budwaa> Depends if ppl are willing to do somthing about it...
Nov 26 22:06:21 <budwaa> If t-mobile have issues with being open, then maybe with solid reasoning and solutions to those issues with enough backing they would open it up.
Nov 26 22:06:23 <jbq> Personally I'd prefer to spend my energy getting a port of Android to e.g. the OpenMoko devices.
Nov 26 22:06:44 <budwaa> Well, thats fair enought..Just i have the G1 now :D
Nov 26 22:07:05 * jbq nods
Nov 26 22:07:34 <tarelerulz> jbq, would it be cool to have android on openmoko . Could do some of the same stuff.
Nov 26 22:07:59 <budwaa> Might give them a ring some time tbh, see if I can contact somone who would take the trouble to talk about the issues they have.
Nov 26 22:08:23 <ttuttle> android on openmoko would be like linux on windows, wouldn't it?
Nov 26 22:08:29 <budwaa> Prob get shown the door but you never know :D
Nov 26 22:08:41 <romainguy__> ttuttle: "the OpenMoko devices."
Nov 26 22:08:44 <ttuttle> ah
Nov 26 22:08:47 <romainguy__> the key is *devices* :)
Nov 26 22:08:48 <ttuttle> good idea.
Nov 26 22:08:56 <romainguy__> or if you prefer the Neo FreeRunner or whatever it's called
Nov 26 22:09:58 <tarelerulz> budwaa:  What codec you use on avidemux to encode  the g1 vidoe?
Nov 26 22:10:21 <budwaa> tarelerulz: lemme check one min
Nov 26 22:11:10 <budwaa> M-PEG4 asp (lavc)
Nov 26 22:11:29 <budwaa> constant bitrate usually, didnt find much benefit from multi pass...
Nov 26 22:12:03 <spikebike> true
Nov 26 22:12:10 * spikebike prefers constant quality
Nov 26 22:12:24 <spikebike> why waste bits if nothing is changing?
Nov 26 22:12:47 <budwaa> I thought the idea of multi-pass was to use the bits where they are needed most?
Nov 26 22:13:20 <spikebike> ya, but that's most useful with constant quality
Nov 26 22:13:51 <romainguy__> http://hicksdesign.co.uk/journal/heres-helvetireader
Nov 26 22:13:53 <romainguy__> oops
Nov 26 22:14:12 <budwaa> But u dont have constant quality with multi-pass do you? I thought the idea was to increase the bitrate in frames where you see the benefit?
Nov 26 22:14:34 <budwaa> Maybe im confused..
Nov 26 22:15:01 <eldenz> maybe constant quality is the opposite of constant bitrate...
Nov 26 22:15:53 <budwaa> In some cases prob
Nov 26 22:17:09 <budwaa> spikebike: when u said true was that in response to  me saying i dont find much benefit from multipass...or to me saying what codec i was using?
Nov 26 22:17:52 <spikebike> eldenz correct
Nov 26 22:17:57 <tarelerulz> budwaa:  You put music on g1 ?  What features it support ? cover art maybe
Nov 26 22:18:18 <budwaa> Possible cover art..not tried it.
Nov 26 22:18:21 <xsdg> tarelerulz: the Music Player does support cover art, yes
Nov 26 22:18:31 <spikebike> multipass is most useful for hitting a particular filesize... i.e. maximum quality with an 800MB file
Nov 26 22:18:44 <spikebike> and helps the most with variable bit rate
Nov 26 22:19:01 <budwaa> What effect does multi pass have on constant bit rate encoding?
Nov 26 22:19:03 <spikebike> but more sophisticated encodeers these days allow for constant quality
Nov 26 22:19:12 <spikebike> budwaa it picks the bitrate for ya
Nov 26 22:19:25 <budwaa> Ahh true...
Nov 26 22:19:26 <budwaa> gotcha
Nov 26 22:19:32 <eldenz> i don't get it
Nov 26 22:19:45 <eldenz> ah, now i do :p
Nov 26 22:20:23 <budwaa> spikebike: when you say allow for constant quality, how is that somthing a computer measures?
Nov 26 22:20:56 <xsdg> budwaa: basically, you can measure the nyquist frequency for various pieces of the recording
Nov 26 22:21:37 <eldenz> anyone managed to do x264 encodes with mencoder that played on g1?
Nov 26 22:21:41 <xsdg> budwaa: and then you use some heuristic based on that to have a relatively consistent SNR, even as the frequency varies over time
Nov 26 22:21:47 <eldenz> if so, hit me with the settings :)
Nov 26 22:21:57 <xsdg> (SNR might not be what I mean; I haven't thought about it too much)
Nov 26 22:22:15 <budwaa> yiou mean some measure of the difference between original vs the encoded image
Nov 26 22:22:22 <budwaa> interesting
Nov 26 22:23:20 <spikebike> video compression is based on the understanding of human perception
Nov 26 22:23:28 <spikebike> not really a measure of bit differences
Nov 26 22:23:38 <budwaa> Thats clever cos then u can demonstrate that u can spend less bits on say a black screen and still maintain your required quality.
Nov 26 22:23:48 <spikebike> well say a new cast
Nov 26 22:23:55 <budwaa> yes but thats how we have programmed a computer to determine quality
Nov 26 22:24:04 <spikebike> often it's a stable background, a slightly moving head, and moving lips
Nov 26 22:24:08 <budwaa> it cant say oh i cant read that text any more tyherefore its bad quality
Nov 26 22:25:16 <tarelerulz> budwaa:  If it had orc on it maybe
Nov 26 22:25:29 <budwaa> lol
Nov 26 22:25:43 <budwaa> even a computer can tell what an orc is supposed to look like
Nov 26 22:25:59 <tarelerulz> I can't wait to get something that is like the iphone and more open
Nov 26 22:26:04 <budwaa> either that or just ask gandalf
Nov 26 22:26:18 <spikebike> in general I find a quality I'm happy with and some movies it's 250 MB an hour
Nov 26 22:26:27 <spikebike> and on others its 700MB an hour
Nov 26 22:27:01 <Optikal__> What is one of the best android phones out now?
Nov 26 22:27:12 <budwaa> G1 hands down
Nov 26 22:27:43 <andyross> Also happens to be the flat out *worst* implementation of android to date...
Nov 26 22:27:58 <jbq> andyross: by virtue of being the only one, yes ;-)
Nov 26 22:28:00 <budwaa> Flat out only?
Nov 26 22:28:15 <budwaa> But then also its the flat out best damn android phone ever concieved by man.
Nov 26 22:28:41 <andyross> Bah.  It's the only android phone that won't make me coffee in the morning.  Useless.
Nov 26 22:28:55 <budwaa> Agreed
Nov 26 22:29:03 <fadden> It's the only android phone that doesn't print genuine $100 bills.
Nov 26 22:29:10 <budwaa> u can text a friend who mgiht bring u one if they like you enough.
Nov 26 22:29:11 <Optikal__> Do you have to use T-Mobile?
Nov 26 22:29:15 <tarelerulz> They still have far to  be as good as the iphone is media action.  They do great job .  I mean watching tv show on ipod is pretty easy.
Nov 26 22:29:28 <languish> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness. It is the age of the G1.
Nov 26 22:29:37 <budwaa> heh
Nov 26 22:29:39 <eldenz> Optikal__, no
Nov 26 22:30:03 <tarelerulz> Languish ,  The great Gadsbie I think
Nov 26 22:30:09 <Optikal__> heh
Nov 26 22:30:24 <budwaa> I wonder if anyone from t-mobile is in here, since i shouted my mouth off about using port 81 for ssh on uk t-mobile its stopped working. Conincidence?
Nov 26 22:30:33 * andyross never quite understood the idea of "serious" video use on a phone.  I mean, sure, watching the occasional youtube clip.  But a whole TV show?
Nov 26 22:30:34 <languish> tarelerulz, dickens, tale of two cities
Nov 26 22:30:57 <Optikal__> Were you serious? lol
Nov 26 22:30:58 <tarelerulz> languish: Thanks man.
Nov 26 22:31:19 <languish> :)
Nov 26 22:31:50 <Optikal__> Yeah, I don't understand watching TV on a phone
Nov 26 22:32:08 <languish> I do.
Nov 26 22:32:12 <tarelerulz> You guys think it will be soon they get  media player on par with what the iphone does?   Itunes level
Nov 26 22:32:13 <languish> I understasnd it completely.
Nov 26 22:32:22 <languish> *understand
Nov 26 22:32:49 <eldenz> tarelerulz, what does iphone's videoplayer do?
Nov 26 22:32:54 <budwaa> tarelerulz: prob wont, the iPhone is a different platform. By design its prob superior ar any single task. However its not multitasking which imo is a big flaw.
Nov 26 22:33:01 <languish> Basically, I don't want to carry multiple devices, when I have one device capable of multiple functions, with the same sized screen (as zune or video ipod)
Nov 26 22:33:29 <budwaa> You have youtube, you will have flash and idd you will have a multicodec video player soon.
Nov 26 22:33:32 <languish> Battery life is the only real problem.
Nov 26 22:33:36 <budwaa> agredd.
Nov 26 22:33:46 <budwaa> anyone else thing the device doesnt sleep very well?
Nov 26 22:33:47 <languish> But now I have 2 batteries.
Nov 26 22:34:00 <budwaa> cpu usage seems to be around 20% most of the time.
Nov 26 22:34:07 <languish> budwaa, issues such as that will be fxed in future updates.
Nov 26 22:34:15 <budwaa> yeah thats what i was thinking.
Nov 26 22:34:26 <budwaa> its a scheduler/app issue
Nov 26 22:34:28 <tarelerulz> I am wish Languish ,  Why not have one do it all.  I don't see any reason they could not have media player as good as itunes.   It is matter of use database really well .  Use meta data right so You can sort by tv show , movie  , etc
Nov 26 22:34:59 <languish> tarelerulz, I don't compare anything with itunes. Because I don
Nov 26 22:35:05 <languish> t have any interest in itunes.
Nov 26 22:35:27 <languish> Same way I don't compare the g1 to an iphone. The iphone doesn't interest me. The g1 does.
Nov 26 22:35:45 <languish> I just focus on what I'd like to see in the device(s) of interest.
Nov 26 22:36:07 <Optikal__> iPhone looks nice, but I just hate how closed off everything is
Nov 26 22:36:15 <andyross> Certainly some people like itunes though, and for those the iPhone is probably a better bet.  I'd hope someone somewhere is looking at something similar for android.
Nov 26 22:36:38 <languish> If an "iPhone" comes out running android and has a physical keyboard, I might be interested.
Nov 26 22:36:42 <tarelerulz> I would like to see playing my songs and videos with the same easy.  Like I do with Banshee and something like itune/ipod with the sorting action.
Nov 26 22:36:45 <languish> for now, *shrug* not.
Nov 26 22:36:48 <budwaa> Optikal__: unfortunately the g1 is the same
Nov 26 22:37:01 <Optikal__> d'oh
Nov 26 22:37:27 <budwaa> Open software closed hardware.
Nov 26 22:37:30 <languish> budwaa there are some fundamental differences. It's not "the same" but it could be better.
Nov 26 22:37:42 <Optikal__> In what way is the hardware closed?
Nov 26 22:37:48 <Optikal__> They don't provide system level routines?
Nov 26 22:37:49 <budwaa> you dont have root access to the device
Nov 26 22:37:56 <Optikal__> Yeah, that's what I though
Nov 26 22:37:57 <budwaa> therfore u cant modify android itself
Nov 26 22:37:57 <andyross> The G1 is a good bit more open than the iPhone is.  The SDK and source release expose more functionality than Apple does for "official" applications.  And once jailbroken, the G1 (being linux) is hugely more flexible.
Nov 26 22:37:57 <jbq> You can't run any software you want on it.
Nov 26 22:38:12 <budwaa> You can only manupulate software withing a VM
Nov 26 22:38:25 <budwaa> andyross: its not open at all...
Nov 26 22:38:27 <budwaa> android is open
Nov 26 22:38:30 <budwaa> G1 is closed
Nov 26 22:38:37 <jbq> budwaa: actually, native code is possible, just neither documented nor supported.
Nov 26 22:38:42 <andyross> No, you can write native code for the G1. It's not in the SDK, but it works.  What you don't have is root without using the pre-RC30 exploit.
Nov 26 22:39:08 <budwaa> How do you run the native code without root?
Nov 26 22:39:21 <andyross> The same way you run native code on a linux box without root? :)
Nov 26 22:39:40 <budwaa> Rlly?
Nov 26 22:39:42 <jbq> andyross: I couldn't have said it better ;-)
Nov 26 22:39:56 <andyross> rly 4shr
Nov 26 22:40:02 <jbq> Sure. Either load the .so and call it via jni, or exec a new process with an executable.
Nov 26 22:40:13 <budwaa> So if I put a native code android app on my sd card i can execute it?
Nov 26 22:40:34 <jbq> budwaa: no, the sdcard is mounted noexec. You'll have to copy it to the internal memory first.
Nov 26 22:41:03 <Optikal__> heh "Gadget Lab 13: HTC T-Mobile G1, $400 Flashlight"
Nov 26 22:41:09 <budwaa> You can do that via the market?
Nov 26 22:41:16 <budwaa> Or by running a .apk or somthing>?
Nov 26 22:41:47 <jbq> You could do that from within an apk, yes, including those uploaded to market.
Nov 26 22:41:54 <andyross> budwaa: the basic idea is to bootstrap with a java application that writes out a JNI shared library and then loads it with System.load()
Nov 26 22:42:17 <budwaa> JNI is like a java interface to c yah?
Nov 26 22:42:24 <andyross> yah
Nov 26 22:42:55 <budwaa> Bootstrap u mean like the booting of the android os?
Nov 26 22:43:23 <budwaa> or u mean u load the native code with java code..
Nov 26 22:43:31 <jbq> the latter
Nov 26 22:43:54 <Optikal__> Oooh barcode scanner
Nov 26 22:44:03 <andyross> well, the former too -- the etymology is the same. "Boot" has long since been verbed from the metaphor.
Nov 26 22:44:06 <budwaa> so you can then access the native code libraries android provides?
Nov 26 22:44:37 <budwaa> could you play with userspace fs mounting like fuse with that?
Nov 26 22:45:00 <andyross> Not without root, I don't think.  Pretty sure the kernel on the device has no fuse support.
Nov 26 22:45:13 <budwaa> Aww that would be sick...sshfs 4tw
Nov 26 22:45:55 <tarelerulz> Speaking of  fuse ,  What file systems does the g1 support ?
Nov 26 22:46:00 <budwaa> wonder if you could implement the entire thing to userspace and map it to a folder on the sd card.
Nov 26 22:46:23 <andyross> adb shell cat /proc/filesystems
Nov 26 22:47:21 <tarelerulz> Thanks,  andyross , I don't have g1 . Just asking so I know when I do get it .  It has terminal app?
Nov 26 22:47:29 <budwaa> yeah
Nov 26 22:48:02 <andyross> Ah, OK.  Basically vfat and yaffs/yaffs2 in the stock kernel.  Obviously a rooted phone could load modules for others.
Nov 26 22:48:16 * budwaa needs a rooted phone
Nov 26 22:48:53 <budwaa> What was i so hasty with installing that damn update :(
Nov 26 22:49:10 <budwaa> Why*
Nov 26 22:52:08 <mikey|> http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/26/t-mobile-g1-now-available-in-frosty-white/
Nov 26 22:52:15 <mikey|> they offered me that when i placed my order today
Nov 26 22:52:24 <jbq> if you already have root, you might as well remount the SD card without noexec and be done with it.
Nov 26 22:53:45 <Optikal__> heh iPhone has tons of sploits'
Nov 26 22:53:58 <budwaa> yeah
Nov 26 22:54:00 <andyross> And the G1 only one.  But it was more embarassing. :)
Nov 26 22:54:17 <budwaa> I was amazed :d
Nov 26 22:54:36 <Optikal__> They need a virus that sends all your text messages to everyone on your contact list
Nov 26 22:55:28 <budwaa> Im sure t-mobile would like that :d
Nov 26 22:55:36 <budwaa> all+1000 :D
Nov 26 22:56:00 <budwaa> maybe ring china too for good measure
Nov 26 22:56:24 <mikey|> can i copy my contacts over from my sim card without going via google contacts?
Nov 26 22:56:44 <Optikal__> Is there a next-gen android in the works?
Nov 26 22:57:07 <andyross> going via?  Not sure what you mean.  Pretty sure my SIM data just showed up in the contact list without any interaction needed.
Nov 26 22:57:13 <budwaa> Optikal__: there will be other android phones sure...
Nov 26 22:57:22 <mikey|> i mean copy it over from the sim to phone memory
Nov 26 22:57:48 <budwaa> Prob its not on the phone? Is it stored on google servers?
Nov 26 22:57:52 <budwaa> Or both?
Nov 26 22:57:57 <jbq> Optikal__ : It all depends on what you call "next-gen". There's work being done beyond what went on the G1.
Nov 26 22:58:04 <Optikal__> yeah
Nov 26 22:58:09 <Optikal__> Like a G2 =)
Nov 26 22:58:33 <budwaa> G1!=android :D
Nov 26 22:58:38 <jbq> I was talking about the software. I have no visibility over the hardware.
Nov 26 22:58:52 <Optikal__> Oooh
Nov 26 22:58:56 <budwaa> android is the software G1 is some hardware with the sofware. Android is more like symbian or windows mobile.
Nov 26 22:59:29 <budwaa> yeah contacts are stored online, attached to your gmail account.
Nov 26 23:00:11 <mikey|> alright, nn
Nov 26 23:00:29 <unix_infidel> jbq: i think people forget that a lot, iirc romain was saying that a lot of UI guys didnt even have a device to work with for a lot of initial versions.
Nov 26 23:01:16 <andyross> Heh, indeed.  SIM contacts get automatically synced with your gmail account.  I now have a bunch of contacts there with only phone numbers.  Cute.
Nov 26 23:01:35 <budwaa> Works both ways too :d
Nov 26 23:01:46 <budwaa> Not just a backup. Cool.
Nov 26 23:01:54 <andyross> Well, to the phone.  Certainly there isn't space on the SIM to sync a ton of contacts onto.
Nov 26 23:02:27 <budwaa> Few hundred on the sim isnt it
Nov 26 23:03:18 <andyross> No idea. But some people (cough, sales professionals, cough) can easily have thousands of contacts, so there's got to be a limit.  I guess the test would be to create a contact on the G1 and move the SIM to a different phone.
Nov 26 23:03:44 <budwaa> Does it store all local contacts on the sim:
Nov 26 23:03:46 <budwaa> ?
Nov 26 23:03:54 <budwaa> though it would be on the intenal mem?
Nov 26 23:04:24 <romainguy__> they are stored on internal memory
Nov 26 23:04:27 <andyross> I'm sure it would.  But the original question was whether SIM contacts are synced, and they are.  You mentioned that it went both ways, and I cautioned that it probably wasn't mutating the SIM data automatically.
Nov 26 23:04:29 <romainguy__> and synced to your Gmail account
Nov 26 23:05:00 <Optikal__> Most the companies I've worked for make contact lists proprietary info
Nov 26 23:05:01 <Optikal__> :\
Nov 26 23:06:02 <ionstorm> any ideas on spoofing the imei
Nov 26 23:06:56 <ionstorm> spoofing imei helps make your phone untraceable
Nov 26 23:07:42 <ionstorm> if u move from one provider to the next your imei will remain the same or change accnts etc
Nov 26 23:08:01 <andyross> Would have to be done on the baseband CPU, which is a black box from the android side of the world.
Nov 26 23:08:09 <ionstorm> i gotta find out where the imei is generated or sent through to be able to sp00f
Nov 26 23:08:20 <andyross> Not in android, basically.
Nov 26 23:08:24 <gambler_> yeah what andyross said
Nov 26 23:08:30 <budwaa> ^^
Nov 26 23:08:45 <budwaa> Maybe if u flash the baseband firmware?
Nov 26 23:09:08 <andyross> Yeah, but flash it with what?  It's a big binary blob with no source code, nor hardware docs.
Nov 26 23:09:25 <budwaa> Could u search for ure imei within it?
Nov 26 23:09:39 <budwaa> if u knew what it was..
Nov 26 23:09:50 <budwaa> and it wasnt encrypted or such
Nov 26 23:10:09 <jbq> the radio image is the same on each device, the IMEI is probably stored somewhere else.
Nov 26 23:10:16 <budwaa> yeah true,
Nov 26 23:10:32 <budwaa> Prob on another piece of mem.
Nov 26 23:10:42 <budwaa> Maybe read only mem?
Nov 26 23:12:03 <gambler_> even if you manage to change it - to what end? you still have your IMSI
Nov 26 23:13:44 <budwaa> Anyone elses gpu const using about 20% cpu? Could that be the resource of the sys monitor app?
Nov 26 23:13:58 <budwaa> gpu=g1
Nov 26 23:15:02 <ionstorm> the imsi is read by the sim is it not?
Nov 26 23:15:27 <andyross> No, I'm routinely at zero.  It's true that load shows 3 because of some kernel threads doing poor bookeeping, but that's not CPU usage.
Nov 26 23:16:35 <budwaa> andyross: what method do you use to check cpu?
Nov 26 23:17:35 <andyross> There's a "top" in /system/bin that should work without root.  Or busybox.
Nov 26 23:17:47 <budwaa> andyross: you have rooted phone?
Nov 26 23:17:55 <andyross> Yes
Nov 26 23:18:40 <unix_infidel> there's a CPU indicator on the emulator not sure whether it works on the device.
Nov 26 23:19:15 <budwaa> emulator?
Nov 26 23:19:28 <budwaa> in the sdk u mean?
Nov 26 23:31:46 <blau> bopit
Nov 26 23:36:50 <DarkriftX> 8 caqqsQWAsaedlb][oiuy
Nov 26 23:37:23 <mohbana> what's the android site that;s run on wordpress?
Nov 26 23:37:27 <mohbana> it was on the topic before
Nov 26 23:39:05 <eggy> a
Nov 26 23:39:07 <eggy> b
Nov 26 23:39:07 <eggy> c
Nov 26 23:39:09 <eggy> d
Nov 26 23:39:09 <eggy> e
Nov 26 23:39:12 <eggy> sorry
Nov 26 23:41:26 <mohbana> ?
Nov 26 23:41:27 <mohbana> anyone
Nov 26 23:45:00 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 26 23:52:07 <ttuttle> good evening
Nov 26 23:52:35 <mohbana> what's the android site that;s run on wordpress? there was a link to it on the topic before
Nov 26 23:52:37 <mohbana> it's gone now
Nov 26 23:56:57 <d03boy> what was it about?
Nov 26 23:59:11 <blau> how awesomei am
Nov 26 23:59:55 <spikebike> Too awesome to spell!
Nov 27 00:15:15 <eldenz> love the comments on DroidSans tweak tools
Nov 27 00:15:18 <eldenz> ^^
Nov 27 00:23:07 * ttuttle wants a "stab commenter in face" button, available to dogfooders and other non-idiot users, in the Market.
Nov 27 00:23:16 <Disconnect> heh
Nov 27 00:23:31 <sodenrox> yeah the are dumb
Nov 27 00:24:04 <Disconnect> ipv8 is slated to have a "stab user in face" extension
Nov 27 00:28:53 <ttuttle> So many of the users are just plain idiots.
Nov 27 00:29:23 <sodenrox> they just dont take the time to find any answers
Nov 27 00:29:30 <ttuttle> "I don't know what this app does" (1 star)... "FIRST!!!!!1111eleventythousand" (2 stars)... "OBAMA BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH" (1 star)... "MCCAIN BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH" (1 star)... "dsnt wrk crash awrvnajkervnaervcaws faer" (1 star).
Nov 27 00:29:39 <sodenrox> they need to go by an 1 phone
Nov 27 00:29:53 <sodenrox> buy*
Nov 27 00:30:13 * ttuttle wants app developers to be able to give the user a set of questions, and require they answer a certain way, before letting them download the app.
Nov 27 00:30:27 <jasta> ttuttle: why not just do peer moderation?
Nov 27 00:30:30 <ttuttle> That'd be great for ensuring a user really has root access, for something that requires it, or ensuring that a user knows WTF they're downloading.
Nov 27 00:30:35 <jasta> and only show comments with a score above some threshold
Nov 27 00:30:38 <ttuttle> jasta: 'cause then app developers can manipulate it?
Nov 27 00:30:51 <ttuttle> jasta: People (myself included) will simply moderate down reviews they disagree with.
Nov 27 00:30:53 <jasta> just like regular users?
Nov 27 00:31:06 <jasta> and other people might just moderate them back up, so what?
Nov 27 00:31:20 <jasta> at the very least you can have the comments not show up, but the reviewed scores still count
Nov 27 00:31:24 <ttuttle> jasta: My point is, legitimate viewpoints will be quashed.  They need trusted moderators.
Nov 27 00:31:42 <jasta> not sure that i agree, but ok
Nov 27 00:31:44 <ttuttle> jasta: Yeah, but then things like the FFT test that was up a while ago will have low scores because stupid fucks don't know what it does and rate it 1 star.
Nov 27 00:32:22 <jasta> what's FFT test?
Nov 27 00:32:26 <jasta> i give it a 1 star ;)
Nov 27 00:32:45 <ttuttle> jasta: see?! :P
Nov 27 00:33:20 <eldenz> what does a low overall score do to an app?
Nov 27 00:33:22 <andyross> Out of curiosity, which app(s) are you talking about?
Nov 27 00:33:34 <Disconnect> it needs a karma system.
Nov 27 00:33:36 <eldenz> i mean, if you are looking for some core system tweak tools then you'll find them ;)
Nov 27 00:33:45 <marcone> perhaps they did understand what it does, but were of the opinion that it's just a silly app that shouldn't be on the market
Nov 27 00:33:50 <eldenz> and you will "get" the reviews..
Nov 27 00:33:52 <ttuttle> marcone: No.
Nov 27 00:34:01 <ttuttle> marcone: Literally some reviews say "I don't get it, so I'm rating it 1."
Nov 27 00:34:02 <marcone> I've seen a few apps like that come buy, that were basically "my first android app"
Nov 27 00:34:06 <andyross> eldenz: Pretty sure that the OOM killer takes market reviews into account in its heuristics models.
Nov 27 00:34:07 <ttuttle> marcone: Yeah, that's different.
Nov 27 00:34:09 <marcone> s/buy/by/
Nov 27 00:34:10 <infobot> marcone meant: I've seen a few apps like that come by, that were basically "my first android app"
Nov 27 00:34:34 <eldenz> andyross, oom killer?
Nov 27 00:34:36 <ttuttle> marcone: These are things like a test of an FFT algorithm, or an app that requires root access.
Nov 27 00:35:00 * ttuttle finds a bug in [NDA].
Nov 27 00:35:28 <marcone> stuff that requires root access shouldn't be on the market either, in my opinion. 99.9% of people won't be able to use it
Nov 27 00:35:32 <ttuttle> marcone: So what?!
Nov 27 00:35:37 <ttuttle> marcone: That's a horrible attitude!
Nov 27 00:35:54 <ttuttle> marcone: It's the Internet, there's no reason a niche app should have bad ratings because people are too stupid to read the description that explains what it's for.
Nov 27 00:36:13 <eldenz> is the description character limited btw?
Nov 27 00:36:29 <ttuttle> Maybe?
Nov 27 00:36:32 <romainguy__> ttuttle: I get bad ratinds on ShutterSpeed because people don't understand what it's for, but I take it as my own fault
Nov 27 00:36:41 <marcone> I'd say that people who have root access are probably smart enough to go to androidrooth4x0rs.com and download it. No need to clutter up the market :)
Nov 27 00:36:43 <eldenz> as they are sometimes pretty short and not informative enough..
Nov 27 00:36:51 <ttuttle> romainguy__: No, it's not your fault!
Nov 27 00:37:00 <romainguy__> it is
Nov 27 00:37:01 <ttuttle> romainguy__: If you explain the target market, and they ignore that, they're jackasses.
Nov 27 00:37:09 <romainguy__> my job is to make clear what the app does
Nov 27 00:37:14 <romainguy__> if people are confused, that's my fault
Nov 27 00:37:16 <ttuttle> romainguy__: I mean, if you say "MAKES YOUR SEX LIFE BETTER AND PAYS OFF YOUR CREDIT CARD BILLS!"...
Nov 27 00:37:41 <ttuttle> It says "Shutter Speed is an exposure calculator for Digital SLR camera users."
Nov 27 00:37:49 <ttuttle> Ergo, if the user is not a digital SLR camera user, they should not use it.
Nov 27 00:38:05 <romainguy__> yes but apparently it's not enough, so it's my fault :))
Nov 27 00:38:08 <romainguy__> anyway
Nov 27 00:38:14 <languish> average users don't bother to read
Nov 27 00:38:21 <ttuttle> languish: Yes.  We should ban them from market.
Nov 27 00:38:22 <languish> they skim for keywords they associate with
Nov 27 00:38:24 <romainguy__> like somebody said on one of the mailing lists, the problem is that ratings are subjective
Nov 27 00:38:34 <ttuttle> languish: There should be honeypot apps that say "If you install this app you will be banned from Market" and if they do, they're banned ;-)
Nov 27 00:38:36 <romainguy__> I disagree with most of the ratings of the apps I've tried
Nov 27 00:38:51 <ttuttle> languish: But, seriously, there should be moderation.
Nov 27 00:38:54 <languish> all they see from "Shutter Speed is an exposure calculator for Digital SLR camera users." are the words speed and camera
Nov 27 00:39:02 <marcone> I get at least 2 emails per day from people asking me how to exit Toddler Lock, even though it says right on the screen how to exit it.
Nov 27 00:39:05 <languish> ttuttle, I assume there will be moderation, or no comments
Nov 27 00:39:13 <eldenz> romainguy__, the app name is a bit misleading.. had me all excited when i first saw it :p but the description is kinda clear (maybe strip the 'SLR'? but then the description might be no longer correct, i don't know anything about digital cameras).
Nov 27 00:39:28 <ttuttle> languish: Yeah, but even if you put in "THIS DOES NOT DO ANYTHING WITH THE G1 CAMERA!" they'll still download it and complain.
Nov 27 00:39:39 <languish> ttuttle, yes.
Nov 27 00:39:44 <languish> That was part of my point.
Nov 27 00:39:44 <romainguy__> eldenz: I firmly believe in short application names :p
Nov 27 00:39:56 <romainguy__> the best part are the private emails
Nov 27 00:40:05 <romainguy__> like the ones that accuse me of breaking the camera :))
Nov 27 00:40:13 <eldenz> haha
Nov 27 00:40:19 <ttuttle> languish: I'm not sure what you can do about that, other than moderate it so you can ban the user from rating things.
Nov 27 00:40:57 <languish> ttuttle, talk to keven & friends at digg.com and other sites that avail themselves of user ratings
Nov 27 00:40:58 <andyross> Or just eat the fact that some ratings will be bad.  Good apps should still rise to the top, on balance.
Nov 27 00:41:01 <languish> *kevin
Nov 27 00:41:14 <languish> andyross, *popular* not *good*
Nov 27 00:41:30 <andyross> Well, yeah.
Nov 27 00:41:44 <languish> "omg this app gets me porn and music and porn music, ***** stars"
Nov 27 00:41:48 <ttuttle> OTOH... the really good but niche apps shouldn't get top spots on the list.
Nov 27 00:42:05 <languish> well, it might be a very good pron app, or it might not
Nov 27 00:42:05 <andyross> A bigger worry for me is that the current market app doesn't seem like it's going to scale well.  Imagine trying to browse through a selection of hundreds of games, etc...
Nov 27 00:42:17 <eldenz> why is the 'pac-man by namco' download declined? ;<
Nov 27 00:42:23 <ttuttle> eldenz: dunno, bugz?
Nov 27 00:42:32 <eldenz> 1star!!1
Nov 27 00:42:34 <eldenz> crapgame
Nov 27 00:42:40 <eldenz> cant evn dl
Nov 27 00:42:43 <romainguy__> andyross: we know :)
Nov 27 00:45:03 <eldenz> hm, need to purchase it
Nov 27 00:45:13 * ttuttle has a copy.
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 27 00:45:52 2008
Nov 27 00:46:17 * ttuttle can adb pull .apks off his phone ;-)
Nov 27 00:46:29 <eldenz>  \ð/
Nov 27 00:50:14 <offby1> /ó\
Nov 27 00:50:26 <ttuttle> eldenz: email?
Nov 27 00:50:39 <ttuttle> eldenz: (do realize that I cannot do this once it is listed with a price in market.)
Nov 27 00:50:58 <eldenz> thanks
Nov 27 00:51:41 <tarelerulz> I hear people bitch about not being as open as they want.  if you could  make all the way open what could you do that is not done now ? Most of the software I have seen takes advantage for the device
Nov 27 00:51:47 <ttuttle> Yeah, still says "FREE" to me.
Nov 27 00:52:12 <ttuttle> tarelerulz: You could offer extra Bluetooth services.  You could do things like add auto-rotation.
Nov 27 00:53:15 <tarelerulz> ttuttle , Good point. Can you take video on it ? That is feature I have not read anything about if you can't why not
Nov 27 00:53:49 <ttuttle> tarelerulz: Yeah, you can't yet.
Nov 27 00:54:08 <ttuttle> tarelerulz: The reason is there's no interface for it, and without the "openness" of being able to do *anything* with it, you can't add that feature.
Nov 27 00:54:19 <tarelerulz> You mean like hardware reason or software ?  I just want to add ext3 to file system it use '
Nov 27 00:54:37 <ttuttle> tarelerulz: "Open" can mean a lot of different things, and people are twisting Google's words.  Google means there's no hurdle to installing software, not that software can do anything.
Nov 27 00:54:42 <ttuttle> tarelerulz: Why?
Nov 27 00:55:31 <tarelerulz> I want to use linux to format sd card into it. So it would work better with Linux.
Nov 27 00:56:00 <ttuttle> tarelerulz: Eh.  That's the sort of thing you can't do without root.
Nov 27 00:56:02 <Damm> android doesn't support ext2/3
Nov 27 00:56:07 <Damm> without root
Nov 27 00:56:14 <Damm> only vfat and yaffs
Nov 27 01:08:11 <blau> the 5* reviews that say, this doesnt work but its a good idea balance the crap reviews
Nov 27 01:08:41 <blau> i think the market is pretty much near useless as it is now for ratings or comments
Nov 27 01:09:02 <blau> probably other stats too
Nov 27 01:09:30 <blau> my active installs % have fluctuated wildly today
Nov 27 01:10:07 <blau> its needs better sorting/searching
Nov 27 01:10:12 <blau> what does the iphone do?
Nov 27 01:10:32 <TiberiumX> Popularity is a fairly good indicator for apps that have been out for awhile.  I find that I have quite a few of the top 20 installed, but I watch for the new ones every day, so I'm not missing any that would be at the bottom.
Nov 27 01:12:17 <TiberiumX> What I'd like is to be told when a program has an update out.
Nov 27 01:12:43 <ttuttle> TiberiumX: I'm sure they're working on that.
Nov 27 01:13:15 <blau> i still dont like that personal budget droid is more popular than my app
Nov 27 01:13:21 <blau> grr
Nov 27 01:13:32 <TiberiumX> Any word on when the next update is due?  I haven't been reading much of the news lately.
Nov 27 01:13:32 <romainguy__> popularity also takes into account the percentage of active installs
Nov 27 01:13:40 <unix_infidel> blau: you mean dgMoney?
Nov 27 01:13:41 <romainguy__> TiberiumX: nothing announced yet :)
Nov 27 01:13:45 <blau> yeah
Nov 27 01:13:46 <romainguy__> RC30 just got released
Nov 27 01:14:17 <ttuttle> TiberiumX: to quote #gentoo, "when it's done"
Nov 27 01:14:23 <TiberiumX> Yeah, but RC30 was just an "oh shit, we fucked up" update, not something real.
Nov 27 01:14:45 <ttuttle> TiberiumX: Actually, it's coming out November 31st.
Nov 27 01:15:11 <TiberiumX> Where is that date coming from?
Nov 27 01:15:16 <ttuttle> TiberiumX: lol
Nov 27 01:15:31 <ttuttle> TiberiumX: My ass.  There is no such day as November 31!
Nov 27 01:15:55 <ttuttle> TiberiumX: ;-)
Nov 27 01:15:56 <TiberiumX> Ahh, I see.
Nov 27 01:16:07 <blau> i just dont see why people like personal budget droid
Nov 27 01:16:18 <blau> its such a horrible use of screen real estate
Nov 27 01:16:25 <ttuttle> TiberiumX: Be patient.  Google is working hard.
Nov 27 01:16:45 <romainguy__> and the phone has been out for just a little over a month :))
Nov 27 01:18:09 <Poohba1> is there an error log for the G1?  i'm getting a lot of force close messages with messaging
Nov 27 01:18:31 <blau> pooh: actual force close messages or close with a wait button too?
Nov 27 01:18:34 <TiberiumX> Connect with adb shell and run logcat
Nov 27 01:18:38 <ttuttle> Poohba1: adb logcat with the emulator.
Nov 27 01:18:39 <blau> messaging performance is fucked
Nov 27 01:18:45 <ttuttle> s/emulator/SDK/
Nov 27 01:18:45 <infobot> ttuttle meant: Poohba1: adb logcat with the SDK.
Nov 27 01:19:08 <Poohba1> yes.  most of the time there are both but not all of the time
Nov 27 01:19:33 <Poohba1> so i can't see logs on my phone?
Nov 27 01:19:51 <romainguy__> if all you get is a Wait/Force Close then there's no error
Nov 27 01:19:58 <romainguy__> it's just the device being slow/busy/whatever
Nov 27 01:20:03 <Poohba1> i didn't have these problems until the last update... although i have more mms since before then also so i dont' know who's to blame
Nov 27 01:20:16 <TiberiumX> Yeah, I'm having some strange problems on just the phone.  I was trying to download a set of files a couple days ago from the phone and was getting ClientProtocolException from the HTTP client, but it was just fine (same software, same files) on the emulator.
Nov 27 01:20:22 <Poohba1> i did delete a lot of service mms' but i can't delete my ppl mms
Nov 27 01:20:32 <TiberiumX> The next day that problem disappeared.
Nov 27 01:23:24 <blaug1> internet did grrr :(
Nov 27 01:35:11 <jasta> man, larry lessig is such a pimp
Nov 27 01:35:59 <Leeds> pimp?
Nov 27 01:36:27 <TiberiumX> What's he doing?
Nov 27 01:41:44 <jasta> he's just being a pimp, like always
Nov 27 01:43:45 <Disconnect> huh?
Nov 27 01:44:38 <jasta> maybe there's a semantic gap here.  i just think he's a really smart fella, arguing good points in a profoundly insightful and interesting way
Nov 27 01:45:15 * Disconnect was reading it as 'pimp' similar to 'punk', 'twit' or at the extreme, 'shithead troll' :)
Nov 27 01:48:39 <jasta> whoops
Nov 27 01:50:29 <TiberiumX> I find myself using services to handle a lot of things.  Stuff that I want to keep going even as I navigate through different screens of my application.  I hope they're pretty light on the overhead.
Nov 27 01:51:20 <romainguy__> TiberiumX: you don't need a service for that
Nov 27 01:52:51 <TiberiumX> How would you handle it?
Nov 27 01:53:06 <romainguy__> define the stuff you want to keep going
Nov 27 01:53:13 <romainguy__> can't you just use a background thread?
Nov 27 01:53:30 <romainguy__> or go through the Application class?
Nov 27 01:53:50 <TiberiumX> Threads close when your activity ends don't they?
Nov 27 01:54:07 <romainguy__> not if you don't close them
Nov 27 01:54:11 <TiberiumX> I'll look at the Application class.
Nov 27 01:54:21 <romainguy__> if your process is still running, your thread should still be there
Nov 27 01:54:57 <xsdg> mmm... pb&j
Nov 27 01:57:32 <unix_infidel> is there an intent you can trigger off of to put stuff in the database or call some services to move data before onStop or onRestart
Nov 27 01:58:34 <unix_infidel> and also, will onStop always come before onDestroy?
Nov 27 02:39:09 <tmzt> jasta: the interview? what are you referring to?
Nov 27 02:40:34 <dellio> Hi, anyone have the g1 startup logo image extracted, its the g1 not the android????
Nov 27 02:40:57 <xsdg> dellio: err... huh?
Nov 27 02:41:18 <dellio> startup image
Nov 27 02:41:57 <dellio> the mtd2 image has a file name logo.rle
Nov 27 02:42:30 <dellio> which is first logo the tmobile g1 displays when it boots
Nov 27 02:42:46 <xsdg> dellio: I guess I should have been more specific.  I understood hte first half of your question, but didn't understand "its the g1 not the android????"
Nov 27 02:42:59 <dellio> anyone extracted it to a raw image or jpg
Nov 27 02:43:00 <ttuttle> xsdg: He's looking for the "T-Mobile G1" image, not the "Android" image.
Nov 27 02:43:09 <xsdg> oh
Nov 27 02:43:10 <dellio> ttuttle correct
Nov 27 02:43:37 <plusminus_> hi alll
Nov 27 02:43:37 <xsdg> dellio: it's not a jpeg, it's a raw 16bpp image (565)
Nov 27 02:44:01 <plusminus_> how to create a SQLiteDatabase on the SDCard ... is that even possible?
Nov 27 02:44:03 <dellio> correct xsdg were you able to extract an image out of it???
Nov 27 02:44:10 * ttuttle ponders what to use as a boot image.
Nov 27 02:44:41 <elad> my face
Nov 27 02:44:41 <elad> D:
Nov 27 02:44:42 * ttuttle decides to make an "AT&T G1" logo.
Nov 27 02:44:43 <xsdg> dellio: I was just pointing that out.  I don't have a production handset, so I couldn't say
Nov 27 02:44:43 <elad> its sexy
Nov 27 02:45:27 <spikebike> that's not easy
Nov 27 02:45:43 <spikebike> oh extract is, updating it isn't
Nov 27 02:47:36 <dellio> spikebike, i mean actually converting the 565 image to a raw image
Nov 27 02:47:51 * ttuttle could write a quick program to extract the .rle to a 565 image.
Nov 27 02:48:57 <xsdg> dellio: does file(1) not tell you what sort of file it is?
Nov 27 02:49:19 <xsdg> the 565 format is dead simple
Nov 27 02:50:48 <dellio> is this the code that encodes to565???
Nov 27 02:50:51 <dellio> void to_565_raw(void)
Nov 27 02:50:51 <dellio> {
Nov 27 02:50:51 <dellio>     unsigned char in[3];
Nov 27 02:50:52 <dellio>     unsigned short out;
Nov 27 02:50:52 <dellio>     
Nov 27 02:50:53 <dellio>     while(read(0, in, 3) == 3) {
Nov 27 02:50:55 <dellio>         out = to565(in[0],in[1],in[2]);
Nov 27 02:50:57 <dellio>         write(1, &out, 2);
Nov 27 02:50:59 <dellio>     }
Nov 27 02:51:01 <dellio>     return;
Nov 27 02:51:03 <dellio> }
Nov 27 02:51:08 <xsdg> dellio: please don't paste long things to the channel
Nov 27 02:51:10 <ttuttle> dellio: yes
Nov 27 02:51:14 <ttuttle> dellio: and what xsdg said
Nov 27 02:51:27 <dellio> understand
Nov 27 02:52:12 <dellio> so i would run the the reverse code to turn it back to a raw image???
Nov 27 02:52:28 <xsdg> bah, why doesn't it use "stdin" and "stdout"?
Nov 27 02:52:51 <ttuttle> xsdg: because they're FILE*'s, not file handles.
Nov 27 02:53:23 <xsdg> aah, ok
Nov 27 02:53:27 <xsdg> hmph :o)
Nov 27 02:55:05 <dellio> so uhm a little help on what the unencode would be ;)
Nov 27 02:55:59 <xsdg> dellio: well, look at the to565 function
Nov 27 02:56:04 <xsdg> and do the opposite of what it does
Nov 27 02:56:59 <xsdg> you just want to go from a short to 3 chars (and expand make sure to map the 5/6/5 bits to 8/8/8 bits)
Nov 27 02:57:09 <xsdg> s#expand ##
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