**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 27 02:59:57 2008
Nov 27 03:01:07 <dellio> guys on xda-developers board had trouble changing this first boot image but you guys here figured it out, what was the problem????
Nov 27 03:02:10 <Disconnect> the g1 logo changes? i though that was pre-linux
Nov 27 03:02:12 <phyburn> does anyone here work with a group of people on one source? If so how do you keep your version updated?
Nov 27 03:02:51 <Disconnect> phyburn: thats what source control is for (svn, cvs - ugh - or git, or etc)
Nov 27 03:03:01 <dellio> disconnect, what you mean pre-linux?
Nov 27 03:03:17 <Disconnect> dellio: thought the bootloader displayed G1, then linux displayed the android and (eventually) set the backlight
Nov 27 03:03:23 <phyburn> Disconnect, whats the easiest system to use that can be implemented on mac os x, linux, windows, etc
Nov 27 03:04:17 <Disconnect> svn and git are about the same. svn is prolly easiest to figure out if you've never used version control before. later, esp if you have a big group or a need for branching/merging, git is prolly a logical second step.
Nov 27 03:04:37 <phyburn> well its just for me and one other person
Nov 27 03:04:42 <phyburn> so Ill check out svn
Nov 27 03:04:45 <Disconnect> svn is prolly perfect
Nov 27 03:04:45 <phyburn> thanks
Nov 27 03:05:07 <Disconnect> in other news, i'm writing up the bt tethering directions now.
Nov 27 03:05:12 <phyburn> its mostly actually just for me, sometimes I want to edit code on my laptop then most of the time im on my desk and it just a wreck lol
Nov 27 03:05:17 <Disconnect> maybe i'll make engadget and my poor fios line will splat :)
Nov 27 03:06:13 <spikebike> disconnect cool
Nov 27 03:06:15 <dellio> the mtd2 image is the bootloader then?
Nov 27 03:06:23 <spikebike> phyburn check out trac, it works well with svn
Nov 27 03:06:37 <spikebike> although for pure docs I prefer dokuwiki
Nov 27 03:06:38 <phyburn> okay
Nov 27 03:06:39 <Disconnect> dellio: no, bootloader is inaccessible to the OS cpu.
Nov 27 03:06:53 <Disconnect> infobot: wiki
Nov 27 03:07:16 <dellio> disconnect: any way to get to it?
Nov 27 03:07:17 <Disconnect> infobot is freakin useless. anyone got the wiki page on how the g1 boots?
Nov 27 03:07:28 <Disconnect> dellio: no, hence "inaccessible"
Nov 27 03:07:41 <Disconnect> if it were reachable it would be "accessible"
Nov 27 03:08:09 <dellio> right you said to inaccessible to os cpu
Nov 27 03:08:29 <dellio> not to you
Nov 27 03:09:07 <dellio> i'll take the wiki page, anyone gots it????
Nov 27 03:10:42 <Leeds> Disconnect: you need to teach the bot...
Nov 27 03:11:18 <Disconnect> i'd expect the bot to understand that 'wiki' means 'where the hell is the android wiki'
Nov 27 03:11:26 <Disconnect> instead of msging me offering to search wikipedia
Nov 27 03:12:11 <Leeds> he doesn't just live in this channel, and he only has a single database of factlets
Nov 27 03:12:21 <Leeds> infobot: android wiki
Nov 27 03:12:27 <dellio> o right....thanks for ya
Nov 27 03:12:35 <dellio> you'lls help
Nov 27 03:13:38 <eugene> Leeds: morning
Nov 27 03:13:47 <Leeds> morning eugene
Nov 27 03:20:11 <Disconnect> ok someone test this out :) http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/515
Nov 27 03:20:29 <Disconnect> infobot: tethering is http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/515
Nov 27 03:20:30 <infobot> okay, Disconnect
Nov 27 03:20:34 <Leeds> no :-(
Nov 27 03:21:35 <Disconnect> Leeds: ?
Nov 27 03:22:08 <Leeds> no root :-(
Nov 27 03:22:13 <mpardo> I have a service that has some methods exposed via interface
Nov 27 03:22:36 <mpardo> i want to the service to stay alive beyond the activity that started it
Nov 27 03:22:58 <mpardo> binding is not the right way to go correct?
Nov 27 03:32:10 <TiberiumX> First start it standalone with startService, then bind to it.  Should live until you/itself stops it.
Nov 27 03:34:30 <jasta> TiberiumX: if you use that strategy, make sure you handle onUnbind in the service to call stopSelf() if its not doing needed anymore
Nov 27 03:35:14 <jasta> otherwise your service will live forever, which ultimately means the process that runs it will have higher priority than it maybe should
Nov 27 03:35:58 <TiberiumX> Yes.  I usually keep a counter of how many applications are bound and stopSelf when both the counter is 0 and I'm finished doing what the Service was started to do.
Nov 27 03:36:07 <jasta> also, you should not start/bind during onCreate, you should do it during onStart (and unbind during onStop).  else you will similarly leave open a possibility of your service running much longer than it should
Nov 27 03:36:27 <jasta> TiberiumX: actually, they do that for you.  onUnbind is very conveniently quirky
Nov 27 03:36:39 <jasta> look at the docs for it :)
Nov 27 03:37:35 <TiberiumX> How does binding during onCreate cause that problem?  I've been binding during onCreate and stopping during onDestroy.
Nov 27 03:38:02 <TiberiumX> Hmm, guess I'll go read the docs for Service.
Nov 27 03:38:53 <jasta> TiberiumX: a service cant stop if something is bound to it, and if you bind in oncreate, unbind in ondestroy, any activity between those two states will keep it bound
Nov 27 03:39:13 <jasta> if you navigate through your app, then hit Home to go back and never escape all the way out, your activity wont see onDestroy in a timely fashion
Nov 27 03:39:30 <jasta> and so your service will stay bound for a very long time, leaving your process priority higher, and thus the out-of-memory killer likely to nuke you
Nov 27 03:39:35 <jasta> even though your app might not be doing anything
Nov 27 03:40:11 <jasta> TiberiumX: a handy tool to investigate this btw, adb shell dumpsys activity | grep oom_adj
Nov 27 03:40:25 <jasta> (lower numbers means less likely to be reaped)
Nov 27 03:40:50 <marix_g1> reaped?
Nov 27 03:40:57 <offby1> pillaged
Nov 27 03:40:58 <jasta> killed by the out-of-memory killer.
Nov 27 03:41:46 <marix_g1> oh snap
Nov 27 03:42:24 <marix_g1> any cool new apps i should check out
Nov 27 03:45:00 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 27 03:45:14 <offby1> Freudroid.  Analyzes your dreams
Nov 27 03:46:57 <Chewy954> man i get horrible reception in my house sadly =[
Nov 27 03:47:28 <Chewy954> but i got my g1 today
Nov 27 03:47:28 <Chewy954> :D
Nov 27 03:47:30 <TiberiumX> Hmm, and now I hear that onUnbind is only called when everybody has unbinded from you.
Nov 27 03:47:45 <Chewy954> im messing with the network stuff
Nov 27 03:47:49 <Chewy954> if its on GSM
Nov 27 03:47:53 <Chewy954> i get only edge
Nov 27 03:48:05 <Chewy954> WCDMA = 3g
Nov 27 03:48:08 <Chewy954> worse reception
Nov 27 03:48:09 <Chewy954> :|
Nov 27 03:48:21 <Chewy954> 0-1 bar if i have 3g
Nov 27 03:48:24 <Chewy954> idk y
Nov 27 03:49:02 <TiberiumX> So if it's keeping its own counter of connections, and it reaches 0, how will it know not to kill my service if I'm in the process of doing something?
Nov 27 03:55:57 <marix_g1> what
Nov 27 03:56:07 <Leeds> why???
Nov 27 03:56:26 <marix_g1> exactly
Nov 27 03:56:43 <marix_g1> how ya doing tonight leeds?
Nov 27 03:57:02 <Disconnect> marix_g1: got root?
Nov 27 03:57:23 <Leeds> marix_g1: almost noon, and I'm working :-) you?
Nov 27 03:57:24 <marix_g1> yep
Nov 27 03:57:57 <Disconnect> marix_g1: want to test my bluetooth tethering directions before i make the big announcements?
Nov 27 03:57:57 <marix_g1> thanksgiving is tomorroe, i was out of work by noon today
Nov 27 03:58:06 <marix_g1> sure
Nov 27 03:58:07 <eugene> marix_g1: hi
Nov 27 03:58:13 <eugene> Leeds: do you celebrate thanksgiving?
Nov 27 03:58:23 <Leeds> eugene: a Brit in Hong Kong - nah...
Nov 27 03:58:32 <eugene> Leeds: same
Nov 27 03:58:43 <marix_g1> disconnect amessersmith@gmail.com
Nov 27 03:58:57 <Disconnect> marix_g1: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/515 ..
Nov 27 03:59:37 <Disconnect> it shouldn't need any input from me but.. and i think i unhosed my site (no thanks to debian)
Nov 27 04:00:34 <TiberiumX> Wow, I really wish I didn't upgrade to RC30 now.
Nov 27 04:00:39 <Disconnect> heh
Nov 27 04:00:44 <Disconnect> toldja (or at least, i told anyone who asked)
Nov 27 04:00:48 <marix_g1> im at my girlfriends place so i got no bluetooth computer around
Nov 27 04:01:07 <Disconnect> ah ok :( can you test the g1 portion of the directions at least? make sure the mod loads, pand runs etc..
Nov 27 04:01:14 <Leeds> my ADSL went down last night, could have done with a little tethering...
Nov 27 04:02:05 <marix_g1> sure
Nov 27 04:02:43 * Disconnect can't really do a dependency check :)
Nov 27 04:05:16 <bert0>   If you don't celebrate thanksgiving, do you at least cook turkeys sometimes?
Nov 27 04:05:45 <eugene> bert0: cooking turkey ham... yummy :)
Nov 27 04:06:04 <marix_g1> turkey ham
Nov 27 04:06:21 <bert0> I wouldn't want to live without turkey
Nov 27 04:06:23 <marix_g1> what kind of wonky cross breed is that?
Nov 27 04:07:00 <Disconnect> i thought we were celebrating. turns out that instead of 6ish guests, we're only getting 1. (two, counting the friend who responded to the "oh crap" sms I sent :) ..) and we have food for about 15.
Nov 27 04:07:01 <bert0> This year we were going to stuff a tofurkey inside a turkey, but I couldn't find one
Nov 27 04:07:03 <Disconnect> anyone hungry? :)
Nov 27 04:07:13 <Disconnect> bert0: we're ordering a turducken for the yule party.
Nov 27 04:07:41 <eugene> marix_g1: hehe
Nov 27 04:07:55 <bert0> never tried it, but it sounds great
Nov 27 04:08:19 <Leeds> Disconnect: ctctp?
Nov 27 04:08:22 <Disconnect> http://www.hebertsmeats.com/asccustompages/products.asp?cartID=&affID=&categoryid=2&navParent=15 ugly url pretty bird
Nov 27 04:08:34 <Disconnect> Leeds: er?
Nov 27 04:08:41 <marix_g1> i was reading an article about a 16 deep nested bird dish
Nov 27 04:08:44 <Leeds> client-to-client turkey protocol :-D
Nov 27 04:08:46 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 27 04:08:47 <Disconnect> nice
Nov 27 04:08:55 <offby1> .oO("the best gourmet"?)
Nov 27 04:09:48 <marix_g1> it statit stardesd with an emu and ended with a finch
Nov 27 04:10:04 <marix_g1> started even
Nov 27 04:10:41 <bert0> pardon my ignorance but what is a Yule party?
Nov 27 04:10:54 <eugene> any android kernel developer here?
Nov 27 04:11:48 <marix_g1> disconnect, seems to be working.  cant test for sure,  but good job on this
Nov 27 04:11:54 <Disconnect> rock :)
Nov 27 04:12:16 <Disconnect> bert0:  http://www.letmegooglethatforyou.com/search?q=yule
Nov 27 04:12:22 <Disconnect> announcing now
Nov 27 04:13:14 <marix_g1> will the auto start have any trouble if the bt isnt enabled?
Nov 27 04:13:24 <bert0> ahhh, I guess I should have brushed up on my neopaganism before entering in this conversation
Nov 27 04:13:36 <Disconnect> marix_g1: prolly :) thats whats gonna make it hard
Nov 27 04:13:38 <eugene> Disconnect: lol. nice link
Nov 27 04:13:46 <Disconnect> i'm gonna tie it into the sdp startup
Nov 27 04:13:52 <marix_g1> disconnect, whats your announcement location?
Nov 27 04:14:01 <unix_infidel> wow, really glad i contained my gadget lust.  looks like this blackfriday is going to be decent.
Nov 27 04:14:23 <Disconnect> marix_g1: and-discuss, and-dev and twitter. it'll hit xda and such on it's own i'm sure.
Nov 27 04:14:25 * Disconnect is too lazy.
Nov 27 04:14:28 <marix_g1> i havnt seen anything worth a damn
Nov 27 04:14:52 <marix_g1> lol
Nov 27 04:15:43 <unix_infidel> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115530
Nov 27 04:16:21 <unix_infidel> not pulling any triggers quite yet.  but looks quite good.
Nov 27 04:17:17 <Disconnect> bert0: actually its on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice
Nov 27 04:17:54 <jbq> Disconnect: saw your post to android-developers. Nice :)
Nov 27 04:18:08 <Disconnect> that was quick :)
Nov 27 04:19:25 * Disconnect doesn't usually get copybacks for 10-45 mins :(
Nov 27 04:22:16 <Disconnect> ok its time for another beer and some start script hacking
Nov 27 04:31:36 <tarelerulz> Is getting root access really a hack or just add feature that is not normally used ?
Nov 27 04:33:47 <Disconnect> depends on what side of the device you are on.
Nov 27 04:34:33 <Disconnect> personally, although I am not "a free human being" or any of that tech-age-hippie crap, I think an open platform should include open devices. that means root.
Nov 27 04:34:46 <tarelerulz> The way I understood you install  terneral program and login as root and change permissions on files from read  to read/write.
Nov 27 04:34:54 <Leeds> you're not a free human being?
Nov 27 04:35:07 <Leeds> tarelerulz: are you running r30?
Nov 27 04:36:37 <Disconnect> Leeds: haven't seen one in a while but there is a new class of "veggie freak" :) that goes by the tagline "I am a free human being" and only uses free-free software (conveniently ignoring the computer firmware, bios, router os/firmware/booloader, network gear between them and the net, etc..) basically as realistic as any other "the world's problems would -all- be solved if..." evangelist.
Nov 27 04:36:48 <tarelerulz> I am not running an g1 . I was just reading about root access and the way I read don't sound like real  hack to me.  When you hack the xbox or anything you get around security via bufferover flow .  That to me is hack where putting terminal program and login into via the computer or g1 don't seem to be hack in the since I understand it to be
Nov 27 04:37:24 <Leeds> tarelerulz: the interest is not in how hard it is to hack, but what the benefits are
Nov 27 04:38:10 <tarelerulz> Leeds, What do you see as hack ?
Nov 27 04:38:24 <Leeds> Disconnect: ah, well... I make an effort to use free software where I can on my 'computers' - doesn't mean it has to be 100% free from top to bottom, but my extensive experience has found that free software is *better*, at least for me
Nov 27 04:38:38 <Disconnect> Leeds: that is a little different..
Nov 27 04:38:59 <Leeds> tarelerulz: evading or exceeding the limitations of the device/OS as shipped
Nov 27 04:41:01 <tarelerulz> hearing you all talking about the g1 and the stuff I have read I can say it looks like to be something that is good right now and in future it is great.   I want it as phone , media player and then platform I can add programs too like I do Ubuntu
Nov 27 04:45:53 <ttuttle> tarelerulz: android really isn't a general-purpose desktop platform.
Nov 27 04:46:00 <mpardo> Thanks Disconnect and TiberiumX, finally got that shit working
Nov 27 04:46:42 <tarelerulz> tttuttle, I know that I am just saying I  mean load free programs on it like I do Ubuntu. Not saying it is the same
Nov 27 04:47:20 <Leeds> you mean you want to be able to load arbitrary programs onto it which are first class citizens along with the shipped apps?
Nov 27 04:47:51 <Leeds> rather than, say, the manufacturer of the phone deciding which apps are available, or third-party apps running in a sandbox while built-in apps run 'native'?
Nov 27 04:50:58 <TiberiumX> Seems like the fact that you can't downgrade the software is a serious problem for any hacking efforts.  On the IPhone you could load any software version you wanted, so as soon as one was jailbroken, they all were.  I'm not sure what's going to happen here, where yeah, a lot of them are jailbroken, but once you've made the error of updating, you can't go back; your screwed.
Nov 27 04:51:27 <muthu_> is gtalk api available for android apps?
Nov 27 04:52:00 <TiberiumX> Which really pisses me off, because I'm running the original RC30.
Nov 27 04:53:30 <Leeds> r30 will be broken sooner or later, I'm sure
Nov 27 04:53:43 <tarelerulz> Leeds , I want to run anything I want on it the market stuff as well as 3 party programs.  I they should make way you can run 3 party stuff that you don't really hack it.
Nov 27 04:54:04 <Leeds> you *can* run third party stuff - it's a checkbox in the settings
Nov 27 04:54:17 <Leeds> you don't need to hack it for that - that's the point
Nov 27 04:54:47 <marix_g1> k im back
Nov 27 04:55:58 <TiberiumX> Yeah, but then they'll release RC31, and anybody who updates will be out of the jailbreaking game.  Jailbroken software isn't going to go far without a large community, and that community is going to be pretty tiny if anyone who gets a new phone (this one still isn't very popular yet) is automatically excluded from it.
Nov 27 04:56:39 <Leeds> you don't have to upgrade... and the 'community' is doing a decent job so far at producing de-fanged upgrades... much easier than on the iPhone, I think
Nov 27 04:56:57 <Leeds> I hit the "yes, install r30" button by accident
Nov 27 04:58:14 <marix_g1> id expect a downgrade to be available soon enough
Nov 27 04:59:41 <tarelerulz> I understand the hardware and firmware is not open ,but I thought the software on top on that is free so add root access I would not think they would see it as hack
Nov 27 05:00:42 <Disconnect> tarelerulz: anything outside the asinine security policy is a hack
Nov 27 05:01:05 <Disconnect> (its a reasonable read, until you realize that it applies to the admin - owner - and prevents basic stuff like backups.)
Nov 27 05:01:22 <Leeds> tarelerulz: it depends on who 'they' is - I guess t-mobile aren't amazingly happy, but I don't think anyone at Google is too bothered
Nov 27 05:01:23 <Disconnect> and selinux could have done it all and more without the evil hacks
Nov 27 05:01:42 <Disconnect> i'd love to see a week go by without a critical security problem tho :)
Nov 27 05:01:57 <TiberiumX> Sanboxing apps is a good idea, but not when I can't, as the owner of the device, step out of it.
Nov 27 05:02:34 <marix_g1> tmo seemed ok with the platform freedom
Nov 27 05:03:17 <mpardo> i need to start something on boot
Nov 27 05:03:20 <tarelerulz> So , how would you run a program you make or got off the net some ware ?
Nov 27 05:03:23 <mpardo> does this look right?
Nov 27 05:03:26 <mpardo> public void onReceive(Context context, Intent intent) {
Nov 27 05:03:26 <mpardo> 		if(intent.getAction() == "android.intent.action.BOOT_COMPLETED") {
Nov 27 05:03:35 <marix_g1> im sure someone explained that such an open device will be cracked front to back before long
Nov 27 05:03:54 <mpardo> it's not working i'm doing something wrong
Nov 27 05:04:33 <TiberiumX> You probably need to register yourself as the reciever of that intent in the manifest file.
Nov 27 05:04:39 <elad> shouldnt you be using .equals
Nov 27 05:04:59 <marix_g1> tarelerulz it installs via a similar method
Nov 27 05:05:04 <Leeds> tarelerulz: you can just install it straight from the website
Nov 27 05:05:22 <marix_g1> also, 3rd party installer apps are avail
Nov 27 05:06:36 <tarelerulz> If there of 3 party installer for  3party app then I will do that.  I am not as much control freak that I want it jailbraked if that mean I update it and i lose out
Nov 27 05:07:38 <TiberiumX> I guess you can only compare primitive objects with == (and all Objects would be compared as Object instances, including Strings)?  I've just recently picked Java back up, and I actually haven't had any reason to do a string comparison yet.
Nov 27 05:11:00 <tarelerulz> Leeds,  you mean you can go to said 3 party app and download there installer and you good to go ? is that what you saying
Nov 27 05:11:14 <Leeds> yup
Nov 27 05:11:21 <Leeds> well, download their install package
Nov 27 05:11:45 <marix_g1> apk file
Nov 27 05:12:09 <marix_g1> which is just a renamed jar file afaik
Nov 27 05:12:52 <Leeds> I thought they were more than that... not quite sure why
Nov 27 05:12:58 <Leeds> isn't a jar just a zip anyway?
Nov 27 05:13:00 <tarelerulz> Most 3 party stuff is written in Java so They would be easy to install .
Nov 27 05:13:15 <Leeds> tarelerulz: er, no
Nov 27 05:13:26 <mpardo_> infobot logs
Nov 27 05:13:27 <infobot> All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Nov 27 05:14:17 <mpardo_> i got kicked... did anyone answer my question while i was away?
Nov 27 05:14:19 <marix_g12> hitting the back button messes me up
Nov 27 05:14:42 <marix_g12> the on boot questyin?
Nov 27 05:14:43 <Leeds> mpagano_: nope
Nov 27 05:14:59 <Leeds> well, not after TiberiumX did
Nov 27 05:15:22 <mpardo_> about boot broadcast?
Nov 27 05:15:23 <xsdg> marix_g12: well, a .apk is just a zip file.  It doesn't have any java in it, though
Nov 27 05:15:37 <marix_g12> oh
Nov 27 05:15:47 <Leeds> xsdg: apk=jar=zip?
Nov 27 05:15:50 <xsdg> Leeds: no
Nov 27 05:15:59 <xsdg> Leeds: apk is a zip, and jar is a zip
Nov 27 05:16:02 <Leeds> file format, not contents
Nov 27 05:16:12 <xsdg> oh, yes then (I guess)
Nov 27 05:16:50 <tarelerulz> Since Android is basiclly an Distro for a smartphone . Do they support a package system like deps or red hats system . Do they have there own system
Nov 27 05:17:09 <Leeds> yes, they are called apk's
Nov 27 05:17:24 <xsdg> tarelerulz: in that sense, no
Nov 27 05:17:51 <xsdg> tarelerulz: it's more of a windows-style distribution system (in that you basically carry your dependencies with you)
Nov 27 05:17:56 <TiberiumX> Do apks do any sort of dependency handling/listing?  I didn't think so.
Nov 27 05:18:03 <TiberiumX> Ahh, ok.
Nov 27 05:18:16 <xsdg> I have no idea if that'll change or not
Nov 27 05:18:23 <xsdg> but at the moment, no, there isn't dependency info
Nov 27 05:18:23 <Leeds> xsdg: but with a richer core platform
Nov 27 05:18:27 <TiberiumX> Which is a real bitch, considering how theyh obviously intended for apps to work together.
Nov 27 05:18:56 <xsdg> Leeds: in terms of interaction, yeah
Nov 27 05:18:59 <TiberiumX> Although the only things I've seen with dependencies were for that Radar program.
Nov 27 05:19:14 <jbq> apks can specify dependencies, but they can't publish libraries to depend on.
Nov 27 05:19:33 <xsdg> jbq: how/in what sense?
Nov 27 05:19:40 <TiberiumX> What do you mean by specify dependencies in that case?
Nov 27 05:20:01 <jbq> If an app needs maps (which isn't part of the platform), it specifies it as a dependency.
Nov 27 05:20:10 <tarelerulz> I mean so they do have system for install stuff . That is good to hear. As long as it easy then compiling haha I am there
Nov 27 05:20:25 <xsdg> TiberiumX: there are a lot of dependencies on functionality provided by the base system that can be overridden (for instance, "send an email")
Nov 27 05:20:41 <xsdg> tarelerulz: actually, it's like gentoo, but you have to compile on the handset
Nov 27 05:21:13 <Leeds> xsdg: don't be cruel :-P
Nov 27 05:21:40 <tarelerulz> From what it sound like mix between windows style install and Linux .  interstesting
Nov 27 05:22:43 <marix_g1> wheres infobot?
Nov 27 05:22:57 <Leeds> infobot: ibot
Nov 27 05:24:04 <TiberiumX> So what are you all working on at the moment?
Nov 27 05:24:13 <TiberiumX> (as far as android applications)
Nov 27 05:24:36 <marix_g1> my girlfriend abou 20 minutes ago
Nov 27 05:24:56 <Leeds> marix_g1: that's strange, I was working on her 10 minutes ago :-P
Nov 27 05:25:02 <marix_g1> now back to surfing and reading news
Nov 27 05:25:13 <marix_g1> how taste my peepee?
Nov 27 05:25:15 <Leeds> sorry, couldn't resist
Nov 27 05:25:32 <marix_g1> no worries
Nov 27 05:25:55 <Leeds> TiberiumX: I'm working on getting myself enough time to get past hello world
Nov 27 05:26:46 <marix_g1> its been 8 years since i worked with java
Nov 27 05:26:54 <marix_g1> i dont hate it like i used to
Nov 27 05:27:46 <TiberiumX> I never really understood while people hated it.  Had to take a class in college, and it was nice and easy to do a lot of things.
Nov 27 05:27:55 <TiberiumX> why*
Nov 27 05:27:56 <andyross> There's not much to *hate* with the language.  It's the java culture that's the problem.
Nov 27 05:28:05 <TiberiumX> What's the culture like?
Nov 27 05:28:15 <tarelerulz> could you run say hello world on the g1 with out head jump a bunch of hoops ?
Nov 27 05:28:53 <meoblast001> bolbo1: you still here?
Nov 27 05:29:16 <TiberiumX> Yes, it's extremely easy to install the SDK (really, you just unpack it somehwere and add a line to $PATH), extremely easy to make "ant", and easy to install "adb install $file".  Not a lot of hoops at all.
Nov 27 05:29:24 <andyross> Abstraction über alles, I guess?  It's very heavy on capital-D design, and tends to value style over substance, IMHO.  Very few clever hacks in Java that you see in other cultures (Ruby, say).
Nov 27 05:29:26 <Leeds> tarelerulz: have you downloaded the SDK?
Nov 27 05:30:08 <tarelerulz> Leeds, I am just wondering
Nov 27 05:30:25 <tarelerulz> I don't even have g1 right now
Nov 27 05:30:29 <TiberiumX> Google has a tutorial that goes through it all step-by-step.
Nov 27 05:30:33 <marix_g1> its leaps and bounds better than it was back then
Nov 27 05:31:36 <Leeds> you can still download and run the emulator - it'll give you a feel for how the platform is, and if you want to try building and installing hello world, it's very easy
Nov 27 05:31:38 <TiberiumX> You really don't even need the hardware to get started.  I understand that people have been writing programs for this since the beginning of 2008 for the android emulator.
Nov 27 05:31:43 <tarelerulz> leeds , I don't mean to ask so much since I don't have one. I am really just trying to learn as much as I can about it before I get one .  maybe to see if worth geting one .  a lot of dow.  If I can get it to work as phone and play my movies and songs on it. I am good ,but I would love to play around with it and see what else I can get it to do
Nov 27 05:32:08 <Leeds> tarelerulz: sure, we get that... download the SDK, run the emulator :-)
Nov 27 05:33:00 <TiberiumX> You can look at a few of the bigger programs used on the real phone with the emulator like the music player and browser.
Nov 27 05:33:15 <marix_g1> the emulator comes preloaded with some demos  shows some nice features
Nov 27 05:33:17 <TiberiumX> Just to get a feel for what to expect.
Nov 27 05:33:27 <Leeds> ironically, the browser probably works better in the emulator on Linux than Chrome does :-)
Nov 27 05:33:50 <tarelerulz> I don't want to tees myself to much before I get one . I am about foaming at the mouth as it is reading all this and hearing from real own what it can do
Nov 27 05:34:50 <Leeds> calm down, man!
Nov 27 05:35:05 <TiberiumX> I was pretty excited when I got one too.
Nov 27 05:35:36 <marix_g1> is google being open about eta on updates and what is coming down the pipe etc?
Nov 27 05:35:59 <TiberiumX> I don't think so.
Nov 27 05:36:09 <tarelerulz> I am just tired of being left in the cool with device since I use Linux.  They work ok ,but 100% of features.  They are for the windows users . I mean pay for it why not get me.  Linux is not that small any more.  From what I read.  Just in the usa.  We still seem to be all windows.
Nov 27 05:36:22 <marix_g1> i saw the roadmap, but havnt heard anything since
Nov 27 05:37:00 <Leeds> I *think* the plan is to open things up more over the next few months - at the moment, the development is in-house and pushed out when it's done, but they want to change that
Nov 27 05:37:25 <marix_g1> good good
Nov 27 05:37:34 <eugene> tarelerulz: i'm pretty excited about it too... but not to the extend of foaming at the mouth hehe
Nov 27 05:38:06 <Leeds> and I think it's quite reassuring that there are shills^WGoogle engineers in this channel
Nov 27 05:38:14 <marix_g1> i say fork the project now, let google run with theirs and let someone else create a power user build
Nov 27 05:39:13 <TiberiumX> Not much good without a device to install your fork on.  I guess there is the Freerunner.
Nov 27 05:39:40 <Leeds> android has been installed on various devices with various amounts of hacking
Nov 27 05:40:16 <Leeds> a lot of HTC devices are very similar at a low level, even if they have different peripherals
Nov 27 05:40:50 <TiberiumX> Who are the shills?
Nov 27 05:40:53 <marix_g1> touch pro with android would rock
Nov 27 05:41:30 <TiberiumX> Yeah, I hear I can install it on my zaurus too.
Nov 27 05:42:11 <marix_g1> i wonder if research in motion is working on a bes interface for android
Nov 27 05:42:31 <marix_g1> that would blow the enterprise doors wide open
Nov 27 05:45:12 <Chewy954> hows the gameboy emu on android so far? I want to play pokemon.
Nov 27 05:45:12 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 05:45:45 <marix_g1> slow from what i hear
Nov 27 05:46:21 <marix_g1> and touch is poorly done for user input
Nov 27 05:46:29 <tarelerulz> eugene, The main reason I want one so much is the hope of some that really works with Linux . The fact I don't need some sofware to get songs on it and you can upgrade to 16 gb sold me.  The other stuff is just play and It would be great to show off can your iphon do this no , To bad they are not more open like g1
Nov 27 05:46:50 <TiberiumX> I saw a video of Doom running on it, but of course we can't run native code, so that's out.
Nov 27 05:47:13 <marix_g1> for now
Nov 27 05:47:34 <marix_g1> adobe is working on a flash player
Nov 27 05:48:00 <eugene> tarelerulz: nod
Nov 27 05:48:03 <tarelerulz> You guys ever think google would say let you run native code ?  in any way .
Nov 27 05:48:05 <marix_g1> they also have the alchemy project which takes c code and exports a flash file
Nov 27 05:48:08 <TiberiumX> As far as I know there aren't any plans to allow native code, which would completely blow their sandboxing system.
Nov 27 05:49:01 <TiberiumX> Someone big like Adobe could probably get their software built into the firmware update.  I don't think they'd let me do that.
Nov 27 05:49:21 <marix_g1> so a game written in c converted to flassh running in a flash browser pluggin inside a javasand box
Nov 27 05:49:23 <tarelerulz> I am not program myself so this may sound dumb ,but why would that want a sandbox system version say native cod
Nov 27 05:49:46 <xsdg> TiberiumX: err... what?
Nov 27 05:49:57 <marix_g1> it protects the os from failure
Nov 27 05:50:40 <TiberiumX> Surely, if Adobe is planning on releasing Flash for the android (as someone said), it's not going to be running in Java?  I'm sure it'll be slow as hell enough on a phone as-is.
Nov 27 05:51:04 <tarelerulz> haha on phone failure is not good.  I can deal with that. My computer mess up not hurt ,but phone messing up I might miss call for ride home haha
Nov 27 05:51:22 <TiberiumX> And since they haven't provided any way to run native code and, as far as I know, aren't going to, it would have to be built into an android software update.
Nov 27 05:51:47 <Leeds> there will probably be an ability to run native code, yes - with a proviso that you are potentially going device-specific
Nov 27 05:52:04 <xsdg> TiberiumX: you can create apps with native code right now.  It's just highly un-recommended since those APIs are liable to change
Nov 27 05:52:12 <Leeds> for those who've seen neocore, apparently it uses native code for rendering
Nov 27 05:52:59 <xsdg> TiberiumX: so, basically, the idea is that you should hold off until the platform has better support for apps with native code so that, for instance, the package has some metadata about what hardware it runs on
Nov 27 05:53:12 <xsdg> (among other things, I imagine)
Nov 27 05:53:15 <TiberiumX> Can you?  I guess you just can't integrate with the UI?
Nov 27 05:53:24 <tarelerulz> So native cod is not the recommend route ,but it can be done with out hacking the system
Nov 27 05:53:35 <TiberiumX> Ahh, that's good to hear.
Nov 27 05:53:40 <xsdg> TiberiumX: I don't know
Nov 27 05:53:51 <xsdg> tarelerulz: yes
Nov 27 05:53:56 <Leeds> native haddock is better
Nov 27 05:54:02 <xsdg> haha
Nov 27 05:56:16 <TiberiumX> I thought that the neocore thing used OpenGL ES, which is part of the SDK, for rendering?
Nov 27 05:56:48 <romainguy> it does
Nov 27 05:56:56 <romainguy> but it doesn't use the Java layer of OpenGL ES
Nov 27 05:57:09 <Leeds> morning romainguy :-)
Nov 27 05:58:30 <romainguy> that's refreshing
Nov 27 05:58:34 <romainguy> talking about native code :)
Nov 27 05:58:57 <xsdg> romainguy: so how do I enable long-press on a button?
Nov 27 05:59:01 * xsdg ducks preemptively
Nov 27 06:00:04 <KNY> xsdg, Button.setOnLongClickListener()
Nov 27 06:01:02 <xsdg> KNY: twas a joke.  long-press on a button is essentially undiscoverable
Nov 27 06:01:16 <KNY> ah, sorry
Nov 27 06:01:31 <KNY> I wasn't sure, but I knew the answer anyway, so I figured I'd go ahead
Nov 27 06:01:35 <xsdg> :o)
Nov 27 06:01:51 <KNY> so you can't do it
Nov 27 06:01:51 <KNY> ?
Nov 27 06:03:10 <TiberiumX> So what's the joke about long-pressing on a button?
Nov 27 06:04:38 <marix_g1> bed time gents
Nov 27 06:04:42 <marix_g1> ill ttyl
Nov 27 06:05:27 <romainguy> TiberiumX: don't listen to xsdg :)
Nov 27 06:07:14 <tarelerulz> I am using Ubuntu is there way to install app on g1 use it ?
Nov 27 06:07:59 <Leeds> error: failed to parse
Nov 27 06:08:22 <Chewy954> my g1 is rc28
Nov 27 06:08:24 <Chewy954> o.o
Nov 27 06:08:28 <Chewy954> should i jailbreak it?
Nov 27 06:08:30 <Chewy954> :O
Nov 27 06:08:33 <TiberiumX> Yes.
Nov 27 06:08:46 <Chewy954> what can u do if i do?
Nov 27 06:08:47 <Chewy954> o_O
Nov 27 06:08:52 <romainguy> first of all, it's not "jailbreaking"
Nov 27 06:08:56 <romainguy> since you can already install apps, etc.
Nov 27 06:08:58 <TiberiumX> Having RC30 and no hope of using the cool stuff people are making now sucks.
Nov 27 06:09:07 <romainguy> then, if you don't know why you should, then you probably don't need to :)
Nov 27 06:09:14 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 06:09:17 <Chewy954> i just got my g1 today man
Nov 27 06:09:25 <Chewy954> i just know that in rc30 its patched
Nov 27 06:09:28 <Chewy954> the telnet exploit
Nov 27 06:09:33 <Chewy954> or in rc29
Nov 27 06:09:38 <TiberiumX> I'm surprised they're still selling them with that root console bug.  THat's pretty serious.
Nov 27 06:09:38 <Chewy954> whats being made?
Nov 27 06:09:47 <Leeds> it's fixed in r30
Nov 27 06:09:54 <Chewy954> any forums I can see whats being made cause of it?
Nov 27 06:09:54 <TiberiumX> Someone was talking about bluetooth tethering earlier.
Nov 27 06:09:58 <romainguy> TiberiumX: well phones are manufactured in advance... :)
Nov 27 06:09:59 <Chewy954> i bought it at walmart so
Nov 27 06:10:09 <Leeds> infobot: tethering
Nov 27 06:10:10 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, tethering is http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/515
Nov 27 06:10:20 <TiberiumX> Yeah, I'd just expect that changing the software on them would have a quicker turnaround time.
Nov 27 06:10:35 <gambler_> Chewy954, outright or on a plan?
Nov 27 06:10:40 <TiberiumX> I guess they figure you'll get 30 as soon as you turn it on anyways, so it isn't a big deal.
Nov 27 06:10:41 <romainguy> TiberiumX: except when the said phones are already manufactured, boxed and shipped :)
Nov 27 06:10:52 <Chewy954> :o
Nov 27 06:10:53 <Chewy954> plan
Nov 27 06:11:05 <Chewy954> so I'll use 3g + edge + wifi at once? o.0
Nov 27 06:11:06 <Chewy954> cool
Nov 27 06:11:11 <bert0> TiberiumX what is it what you want to do exactly that you need root access to do?
Nov 27 06:11:28 <Gary|tp> chewy?
Nov 27 06:11:33 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 06:11:34 <TiberiumX> I'm interested in the development of a method of tethering.
Nov 27 06:11:36 <Chewy954> sup Gary13579? :P
Nov 27 06:11:40 <Chewy954> Gary|tp
Nov 27 06:11:41 <Chewy954> :P
Nov 27 06:11:52 <Gary|tp> :o
Nov 27 06:11:58 <Chewy954> o:
Nov 27 06:11:58 <bert0> why do you need root to do that?
Nov 27 06:12:00 <Gary|tp> quit stalking me
Nov 27 06:12:05 <Chewy954> PFFFFFFT
Nov 27 06:12:11 <Chewy954> its not my fault
Nov 27 06:12:12 <Chewy954> >.>
Nov 27 06:12:46 <TiberiumX> And it kinda irks me that I don't have root access to my own system, but yeah, mostly tethering.  The current method involves using iptables, which I believe can only make changes when running as root.
Nov 27 06:13:20 <Gary|tp> TiberiumX: theres the proxy solution
Nov 27 06:13:35 <TiberiumX> Which isn't very good.
Nov 27 06:13:43 <Gary|tp> it works fairly well
Nov 27 06:13:47 <romainguy> ah even more refreshing
Nov 27 06:13:52 <romainguy> root discussions :))
Nov 27 06:14:01 <Gary|tp> Well, depending on what you need it for.
Nov 27 06:14:15 <Gary|tp> Pretty much any app has SOCKS support. And if it doesn't, there's SocksCap for that.
Nov 27 06:14:22 <Gary|tp> Heya JesusFreke :)
Nov 27 06:14:31 <Chewy954> Gary|tp is gay
Nov 27 06:14:38 <Chewy954> whats tp?
Nov 27 06:14:40 <Chewy954> tiny penor?
Nov 27 06:14:41 <Chewy954> :p
Nov 27 06:14:46 <Gary|tp> Chewy954 wishes so I would fuck him
Nov 27 06:14:50 <Chewy954> D:
Nov 27 06:14:51 <Chewy954> no!
Nov 27 06:15:05 <Chewy954> hmm
Nov 27 06:15:15 <JesusFreke1> hey Gary :)
Nov 27 06:15:17 <Chewy954> wonder since we have root, if we can get 'real' java
Nov 27 06:15:18 <Chewy954> :o
Nov 27 06:15:41 <JesusFreke1> install debian, then install java
Nov 27 06:15:43 <romainguy> what would you need it for?
Nov 27 06:15:43 <JesusFreke1> :)
Nov 27 06:15:52 <Gary|tp> Why would you need it..
Nov 27 06:15:55 <jbq> No need to have root for that.
Nov 27 06:16:00 <TiberiumX> You can also apparently symlink browser/markplace cache to the SD card to free up space.
Nov 27 06:16:04 <romainguy> (warning: it will probably be awfully slow given how Java SE is implemented)
Nov 27 06:16:19 <Chewy954> Gary|tp: I just real that it'd be easier to dev a real gameboy emu
Nov 27 06:16:22 <Chewy954> i want pokemon
Nov 27 06:16:24 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 06:16:52 <Gary|tp> nah, java and davlik would most likely be the same speed. if anything davlik would be faster IIRC
Nov 27 06:17:14 <bert0> so you want real java instead of java that is tailor made for your type of system... did I understand that right?
Nov 27 06:17:28 <Chewy954> MAYBE
Nov 27 06:17:29 <romainguy> Gary|tp: not necessarily, it would have to be measured
Nov 27 06:17:29 <Chewy954> @_@
Nov 27 06:17:37 <romainguy> Java SE comes with much more advanced VM and GC
Nov 27 06:17:54 <jbq> Dalvik's big advantage is that it can run bytecode from memory-mapped files that are primarily read-only.
Nov 27 06:18:20 <romainguy> Java SE's issue  is that the stack was not implemented for phones
Nov 27 06:18:28 <Chewy954> man, it's a pain converting videos on this POS lappy of mine.
Nov 27 06:18:35 <Chewy954> want dark knight for my g1 ;]
Nov 27 06:18:39 <romainguy> especially the Java2D/AWT/Swing parts of the stack
Nov 27 06:19:55 <Randalthor_> hey guys, anybody know if its possible to load a system.img, compiled from the open source code, into a g1 phone
Nov 27 06:19:58 <tarelerulz> Emulators would be good program I would get ,but that is not officeal  android market kind of program.   Game Boy Advanced would be great 1000 of games for it
Nov 27 06:20:26 <Chewy954> i just want gbc
Nov 27 06:20:28 <Chewy954> pokemon :P
Nov 27 06:20:28 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 06:20:36 <bert0> I want a wii emulator
Nov 27 06:20:41 <Gary|tp> ugh CPU emulation
Nov 27 06:20:43 <Gary|tp> makes me cry
Nov 27 06:21:00 <TiberiumX> I want scummvm.  Compiles for just about every architecture out there.
Nov 27 06:21:21 <bert0> I want a white siberian tiger cub
Nov 27 06:21:31 <bert0> ooops wrong channel
Nov 27 06:21:46 <Chewy954> i want a angelina jolie
Nov 27 06:21:49 <Chewy954> bitch is hot
Nov 27 06:21:53 <TiberiumX> That would be cool, but probably a pain to take care of once it grew up.
Nov 27 06:21:56 <DarkriftX> Randalthor: if you have root, yes
Nov 27 06:22:08 <DarkriftX> JesusFreke: hows it going
Nov 27 06:22:13 <DarkriftX> never seen you on here before
Nov 27 06:22:31 <Chewy954> isnt TiberiumX from malloc?
Nov 27 06:22:37 <Gary|tp> I dunno
Nov 27 06:22:40 <tarelerulz> GBC would be great too. I am just saying all the game boys have great games.   Game boy advanced covers all the game boy systems.  Which has 1000s of games I  know of maybe more.  I would get some  MR.Driller myself and  and some japanses game I can't remember the name of
Nov 27 06:22:41 <Chewy954> or was it toc2rta?
Nov 27 06:22:44 <Gary|tp> oh I should pop on there
Nov 27 06:22:47 <Chewy954> i remember him from somewhere how ever.
Nov 27 06:22:57 <Gary|tp> t2r became malloc...well, merged
Nov 27 06:23:04 <Chewy954> no
Nov 27 06:23:09 <Chewy954> t2r was shut down
Nov 27 06:23:09 <JesusFreke> hey Darkrift. Yeah, it's my first time in this chan
Nov 27 06:23:09 * DarkriftX goes out for a smoke
Nov 27 06:23:12 <Chewy954> reopened
Nov 27 06:23:15 <DarkriftX> ahh, yuo are here
Nov 27 06:23:17 <Chewy954> and shut down again
Nov 27 06:23:17 <Chewy954> :P
Nov 27 06:23:29 <Chewy954> malloc popped up cause of toc2rta going away
Nov 27 06:23:30 <DarkriftX> did you talk to Disconnect about the bt modules?
Nov 27 06:23:46 <Gary|tp> yeah, when niacin went all emo faggot (not like he ever wasn't). skylark setup a new server, and eventually linked it to malloc
Nov 27 06:23:46 * DarkriftX nudges Disconnect 
Nov 27 06:24:06 <Chewy954> yea
Nov 27 06:24:10 <Chewy954> it made me lol Gary13579 cause
Nov 27 06:24:12 <Chewy954> i was bored
Nov 27 06:24:19 <Chewy954> and setup a rbot net on their
Nov 27 06:24:22 <Chewy954> and he shut down
Nov 27 06:24:30 <Chewy954> when he upped it for the iphone shit
Nov 27 06:24:33 <Chewy954> it was there
Nov 27 06:24:39 <Chewy954> he was going nuts trying to remove them
Nov 27 06:24:39 <Chewy954> xD
Nov 27 06:24:42 <Gary|tp> lol rbot
Nov 27 06:24:58 <TiberiumX> malloc?  Wtf?
Nov 27 06:25:07 <jasta> haha, sweet, my G1 wont turn on
Nov 27 06:25:13 <jasta> or respond to the charger being plugged in
Nov 27 06:25:16 <TiberiumX> What did you do to it?
Nov 27 06:25:23 <jasta> nothing, its been in my pocket since the last time i used it
Nov 27 06:25:40 * jasta tries to remove the battery or something
Nov 27 06:25:42 <Chewy954> sucks
Nov 27 06:25:43 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 06:25:49 <Gary|tp> TiberiumX: were you there?
Nov 27 06:26:02 <Gary|tp> I was an ex net admin there, I guess chewy saw you there or something.
Nov 27 06:26:18 <JesusFreke> Yeah, I did Darkrift :)
Nov 27 06:26:27 <DarkriftX> cool
Nov 27 06:26:27 <JesusFreke> Tried it out, verified it works, etc. :)
Nov 27 06:26:30 <Chewy954> i saw him somewhere
Nov 27 06:26:33 <Chewy954> cant remember where
Nov 27 06:26:34 <TiberiumX> The only malloc I know of is a C function call, so I guess not.
Nov 27 06:26:44 <JesusFreke> cool stuff!
Nov 27 06:26:45 <DarkriftX> nice
Nov 27 06:26:46 <Chewy954> TiberiumX: what other irc servers do you go on?
Nov 27 06:26:51 <Chewy954> hopefully it wasn't 67chan
Nov 27 06:26:53 <Chewy954> er
Nov 27 06:26:54 <Chewy954> 7chan
Nov 27 06:26:54 <DarkriftX> soon this will be like all htc devices
Nov 27 06:26:55 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 06:26:58 <DarkriftX> rom chefs all over the place
Nov 27 06:27:03 <TiberiumX> I'm not an IRC regular.
Nov 27 06:27:10 <jasta> lol, is my phone really bricked now?
Nov 27 06:27:12 <tarelerulz> What about bit torrent client for the g1 ?
Nov 27 06:27:12 <Chewy954> o
Nov 27 06:27:13 <Chewy954> meh
Nov 27 06:27:19 <Gary|tp> tarelerulz: no.
Nov 27 06:27:24 <Chewy954> why would u want a bittorrent client for the g1?
Nov 27 06:27:25 <JesusFreke> ouch, what did you do jasta?
Nov 27 06:27:34 <Gary|tp> Would kill T-Mobiles network. I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to make one.
Nov 27 06:27:34 <Chewy954> wanna test how many clients it can handle?
Nov 27 06:27:34 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 06:27:47 <jasta> JesusFreke: nothing at all.  i literally used it, put it in my pocket, an hour later, it wont turn on
Nov 27 06:27:58 <DarkriftX> ouch
Nov 27 06:28:03 <JesusFreke> weird. Have you tried taking the battery out, and putting it back in?
Nov 27 06:28:15 <jasta> trying right now, but its hard to do :)
Nov 27 06:28:23 <JesusFreke> yeah, I hate that back cover :)
Nov 27 06:29:14 <tarelerulz> since it can store music and movies on it .  what about samba or some other system like that for sharing files ?  I have different stuff on all my system .  Ipod  being one of them
Nov 27 06:29:32 <TiberiumX> Samba client would be pretty cool.
Nov 27 06:29:35 <JesusFreke> Yeah, I installed samba on mine. Pretty spiffy
Nov 27 06:29:50 <jasta> ok, got it off
Nov 27 06:29:54 <jasta> lets see if this phone is dead :)
Nov 27 06:30:09 <Chewy954> gl
Nov 27 06:30:09 <Chewy954> lol
Nov 27 06:30:13 <JesusFreke> my RC30 v1.2 comes with a kernel module for cifs (same thing as samba client.. more or less)
Nov 27 06:30:26 <jasta> yay, it seems to turn on
Nov 27 06:30:33 <JesusFreke> yay!
Nov 27 06:30:38 <Leeds> booted up?
Nov 27 06:30:46 <jasta> well, it got to the bootloader, we'll see :)
Nov 27 06:31:07 <jasta> that was scary and lame :(
Nov 27 06:31:20 <jasta> yay, home screen
Nov 27 06:31:29 <TiberiumX> Well unless your RC30 v1.2 can be installed over a pre-existing RC30, I'm screwed still.
Nov 27 06:31:30 <Leeds> yay :-)
Nov 27 06:31:35 <unix_infidel> hmm, near broken G1?>
Nov 27 06:31:39 <TiberiumX> That's good.
Nov 27 06:31:42 <tarelerulz> File sharing would be cool feature .  So you don't have to connect via usb cable . I hate cords.   take files on and off .   I would do it just too see If it was that cool.
Nov 27 06:31:46 <romainguy> jasta: if you're scared that easily, you should not get into the business of flashing the device 20 times a day ^^
Nov 27 06:31:49 <bert0> http://pastebin.ca/1267751  Tethering?
Nov 27 06:32:09 <jasta> romainguy: i wouldnt be scared if i had 5 engineering devices laying around :)
Nov 27 06:32:21 <romainguy> you would be scared if you had to use engineering devices :))
Nov 27 06:32:41 <jbq> plus they're really hard to actually get, even for google.
Nov 27 06:32:51 <JesusFreke> terelerulz, if you install debian per saurik's instructions, it's easy to get a samba server up and running once you have debian installed
Nov 27 06:33:24 <Leeds> JesusFreke: I'll take one side order of NFS for v1.3, kthnxbye :-)
Nov 27 06:33:25 <DarkriftX> TiberiumX: some ppl are working on a method to get root for rc30+ phones, but its still a few weeks out from what ive heard
Nov 27 06:33:49 <bert0> Do your sources tell you about how far out AADP is?
Nov 27 06:34:07 <DarkriftX> is ncurses even possible on the g1 without the debian install?
Nov 27 06:34:07 <JesusFreke> leeds - dunno if I can squish much more into /system. it's practically full :)
Nov 27 06:34:16 <unix_infidel> jbq: awww, even after that nice taiwanese man said such nice things about you.
Nov 27 06:34:25 <DarkriftX> what about /data or soemthing
Nov 27 06:34:50 <JesusFreke> don't really want to put system stuff on data. what if they do a factory reset?
Nov 27 06:35:09 <DarkriftX> ahhh
Nov 27 06:35:11 <TiberiumX> Any idea what approach they're taking to jailbreak it?
Nov 27 06:35:21 <tarelerulz> Jesusfreke ,  Install Debian might be cool if you could really do more.  So, far I have not read or hear much you can't do with android . If that made Debain really work well on phones so You could do phone stuff and real linux action . I would install as soon as I got it.   I really want to add codecs.  I have alot of  xvid stuff. I hate converting
Nov 27 06:35:22 <DarkriftX> TiberiumX: they are attacking it from the bootloader
Nov 27 06:35:36 <DarkriftX> i know pretend to understand that part, but they bootloader isnt as locked down as it is said it is
Nov 27 06:35:45 <Leeds> tarelerulz: note that you will *not* be running X on your phone
Nov 27 06:35:49 <TiberiumX> Who are these people?
Nov 27 06:36:15 <DarkriftX> they are the unnamed
Nov 27 06:36:20 <DarkriftX> to speak of them is to bring death
Nov 27 06:36:25 <JesusFreke> them
Nov 27 06:36:27 * JesusFreke dies
Nov 27 06:36:32 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 27 06:36:38 <romainguy> we're still waiting for a real root exploit guys :p
Nov 27 06:36:39 <TiberiumX> But that's good, since you can't downgrade, it seems like a lot of potential jailbreak methods are out.
Nov 27 06:36:54 <tarelerulz> Leeds, does Debain run  Android's gui and the app android has for it
Nov 27 06:37:06 <DarkriftX> we are still waiting for one that isnt left open for us romainguy
Nov 27 06:37:06 <Chewy954> no lol
Nov 27 06:37:07 <TiberiumX> Like the image library buffer overflow they used for the IPhone.
Nov 27 06:37:15 <romainguy> DarkriftX: that's RC30 :)
Nov 27 06:37:19 <DarkriftX> oh wait, rc30 is probably shipping now huh
Nov 27 06:37:28 <Leeds> tarelerulz: the 'install debian' stuff is installing a debian userspace, keeping the android OS in place
Nov 27 06:37:28 <romainguy> better get to it :p
Nov 27 06:37:29 <Gary|tp> my mother got a G1
Nov 27 06:37:36 <Leeds> romainguy: come on, give us a hint? ;-)
Nov 27 06:37:37 <Gary|tp> waiting for data to be active so I can check RC
Nov 27 06:38:03 <DarkriftX> romainguy: im not worried, ive seen the new methods in action and i know by the time i get mine, it will be 100% working
Nov 27 06:38:24 <bert0> my whole house smells like turkey :)
Nov 27 06:38:29 <romainguy> Leeds: even if I wanted to I probably could not, I don't know enough about the low level stuff and honestly, I don't care at all; all I care about are GUIs
Nov 27 06:38:36 <tarelerulz> Leeds, that sound like it could be hot.  Userspace cover a lot.  have worth wild media player would be what I would want haha
Nov 27 06:38:59 <romainguy> DarkriftX: so how is it "a few weeks out" if it's working already?
Nov 27 06:39:46 <tarelerulz> Any of you guys ever seen  Banshee the media library / media player ?
Nov 27 06:39:56 <TiberiumX> Well, depending on free time levels for the people involved, it can take awhile to clean something up and package it nicely.  I wouldn't say that it's unreasonable, if, in fact, it has been jailbroken.
Nov 27 06:41:33 <TiberiumX> But I'm a little suspicious, because I would expect a proof of concept to be shown or something.
Nov 27 06:41:48 <DarkriftX> romainguy: its not perfected enough to release to general public
Nov 27 06:42:13 <DarkriftX> the idea works, the method is very long and tedious (from what i last heard)
Nov 27 06:42:23 <DarkriftX> so they are biulding the tools to make it user friendly
Nov 27 06:42:59 <DarkriftX> TiberiumX: if you were shown a proof of concept, wouldnt you be begging for the method?
Nov 27 06:43:36 <tarelerulz> You guys look much at the media players for g1 ?
Nov 27 06:43:47 <DarkriftX> trust me, i wont be able to get a G1 till around xmas, and im not worried about getting root.
Nov 27 06:43:59 <JesusFreke> you don't have a G1 dark?
Nov 27 06:44:03 <DarkriftX> nope :(
Nov 27 06:44:08 <JesusFreke> ah, wow
Nov 27 06:44:09 <DarkriftX> wife is too spendy
Nov 27 06:44:16 <DarkriftX> spends every dime i get and more
Nov 27 06:44:22 <DarkriftX> so i gotta steal my money back from her to afford one
Nov 27 06:44:29 * JesusFreke enjoys his singleness
Nov 27 06:44:32 <DarkriftX> or get one for xmas
Nov 27 06:44:37 <DarkriftX> yes, enjoy it
Nov 27 06:44:43 * Gary|tp enjoys being able to handle all the money.
Nov 27 06:44:52 <DarkriftX> it sucks watching all the fun and not being able to join in
Nov 27 06:45:03 <DarkriftX> and for a week i was scared id missed the only root method
Nov 27 06:45:26 <DarkriftX> which is my point, im not worried anymore because ive seen the steps and i know it works, just not somethign the average joe can do himself
Nov 27 06:45:57 <DarkriftX> they are trying to avoid bricks because that would piss tmo off and make them work harder at locking this thing down which is bad for everyone.
Nov 27 06:48:13 <bert0> which android related websites do you all frequent?
Nov 27 06:48:52 <umdk1d3> helloandroid has a good rss feed mashup
Nov 27 06:49:15 <umdk1d3> ohwait i think its planetandroid sry
Nov 27 06:50:34 <TiberiumX> I peek into xda-developers occasionally.
Nov 27 06:51:00 <DarkriftX> helloseems to have died
Nov 27 06:51:13 <TiberiumX> Have about fifty http://code.google.com/android/reference/* tabs open.
Nov 27 06:51:15 <DarkriftX> i have their rss feed on my site, and the last entry is "g1 rooted"
Nov 27 06:51:26 <DarkriftX> my site comes in a close 3rd i think :)
Nov 27 06:51:42 <DarkriftX> ok, maybe 5th :(
Nov 27 06:52:57 <umdk1d3> hmm i wonder how open source projects go about looking for translators
Nov 27 06:53:48 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 27 06:54:00 <DarkriftX> i think most get ppl who apply saying "i cant code, but ill translate for you"
Nov 27 06:54:15 <DarkriftX> ive seen lots of those emails on the open source projects ive watched
Nov 27 07:04:35 <nipsy> Well, I copied a few Debian armel binaries over with adb to /sqlite_stmt_journals (busybox and bash-static) just to play around.  Worked great.  Too bad I got RC30 pushed to me and I don't have root.  :)
Nov 27 07:06:59 <rahul> a newbie's question on emulator: while working with Eclipse, do I need to restart my application always? It seems the emulator takes ages to start up :(
Nov 27 07:08:02 <rahul> Just wondering if Eclipse can hot deploy changes to a runnig emulator?
Nov 27 07:08:45 <romainguy> it can
Nov 27 07:08:47 <romainguy> just re-run it
Nov 27 07:08:56 <romainguy> it will kill the running app, deploy the apk and restart the app
Nov 27 07:09:00 <romainguy> not need to restart the emulator
Nov 27 07:09:14 <romainguy> (just like you don't restart your computer every time you change an application :))
Nov 27 07:09:24 <romainguy> * Experience may vary depending on the OS ^^
Nov 27 07:10:17 <rahul> cheers for that!
Nov 27 07:30:38 <tauno>  "<romainguy> (just like you don't restart your computer every time you change an application :))" - you don't?..
Nov 27 07:35:59 <TiberiumX> At least on Windows, they certainly want you to all the damn time.
Nov 27 07:36:47 <Gary|thinkpad> Generally they don't need a restart.
Nov 27 07:38:25 <TiberiumX> Yeah, I've always unchecked that box without issue, but still.
Nov 27 07:45:00 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 27 07:46:15 <Chewy954> nn
Nov 27 08:21:14 <sparkle> hey
Nov 27 08:23:10 <spikebike> hey hey
Nov 27 08:23:21 <JesusFreke> hey hey hey
Nov 27 08:23:55 <Lieutenant> hey you
Nov 27 08:24:00 <Lieutenant> i know u jesusfreke
Nov 27 08:24:04 <Lieutenant> actually no i dont
Nov 27 08:24:10 <Lieutenant> but hey anyways.
Nov 27 08:24:16 <JesusFreke> hey.
Nov 27 08:24:20 <JesusFreke> :p
Nov 27 08:24:30 <sparkle> heh
Nov 27 08:24:31 <sparkle> heyhey
Nov 27 08:24:32 <sparkle> lol
Nov 27 08:24:54 <Lieutenant> um wanna help noob ol' me fix my security hole on my modified rc30? :D
Nov 27 08:25:00 <offby1> .oO("sparkle motion"?)
Nov 27 08:26:00 <JesusFreke> it's pretty easy. I would stick with Fnord's su for now, until Koush gets the new version he was talking about on xda-dev out
Nov 27 08:26:02 <Lieutenant> i see the thread with all those big hacking words n stuff, but im too scared that i might mess something up :(
Nov 27 08:26:23 <JesusFreke> thems are hackin' words there
Nov 27 08:26:36 <JesusFreke> :D
Nov 27 08:26:45 <offby1> Hey!  No hackin' words.  It's a family channel.
Nov 27 08:26:48 <Lieutenant> lol
Nov 27 08:26:53 * Leeds can see the fnords
Nov 27 08:27:02 * offby1 is pining for the fnords
Nov 27 08:27:38 <Lieutenant> wouldn't it be cool if someone made a phonecall recording program?
Nov 27 08:27:48 <romainguy> there's one on market it seems
Nov 27 08:27:49 <Lieutenant> where it records phonecalls and puts the audio files on ur sd card?
Nov 27 08:27:55 <Lieutenant> WTF? no way!
Nov 27 08:28:08 <romainguy> it's called Phone Recorder or something
Nov 27 08:28:15 <Lieutenant> i was just joking, i didn't know it was possible.
Nov 27 08:28:56 <nipsy> /pts/2:~/g1/shit/bin> ll
Nov 27 08:28:56 <nipsy> total 1.2M
Nov 27 08:29:14 <nipsy> Well, that was an unfortunate paste.  lol
Nov 27 08:29:43 <nipsy> Could have been worse I guess.
Nov 27 08:32:20 <spikebike> I'd like to make a walkie talkie application
Nov 27 08:33:15 <Leeds> PTT?
Nov 27 08:57:55 <spikebike> nah, just short range walkie talkie
Nov 27 08:59:08 <Leeds> BT?
Nov 27 08:59:31 <spikebike> was thinking wifi
Nov 27 08:59:33 <spikebike> ad hoc
Nov 27 09:00:59 <Leeds> hmm...
Nov 27 09:02:02 <sparkle> has anyone figred out how to get the g1 doing encrypted ad hoc?
Nov 27 09:02:50 * warren sadly has 1 year left on a Sprint Treo contract
Nov 27 09:11:09 <tauno> recording phone calls is possible? by a random app running in the background?
Nov 27 09:14:18 <tauno> heh.. what a smart thingie Dalvik is: "INFO/dalvikvm(52): threadid=35: bogus mon 1+0>0; adjusting"
Nov 27 09:15:13 <tauno> btw "Unlocking SIM card..." progress dialog won't go away and the phone is unusable.. should I file a bug?
Nov 27 09:15:20 <tauno> ..worked 5 mins ago
Nov 27 09:15:40 <xsdg> tauno: on a G1?
Nov 27 09:16:11 <tauno> yes
Nov 27 09:16:56 <tauno> logcat does not show anything interesting about it :(
Nov 27 09:17:05 <xsdg> tauno: also, what dialog are you referring to?
Nov 27 09:17:48 <tauno> when you enter your SIM pin code and press "OK" then there's a progress dialog "Unlocking SIM card..."
Nov 27 09:19:28 <xsdg> tauno: I'm not sure I'm familiar with the dialog you're talking about.  I presume you're not talking about the unlock screen with the 9 dots that you draw a pattern on, right?
Nov 27 09:19:57 <tauno> oh.. found a workaround for the bug - hold down power button till the "silent mode or turn off" dialog appears, press back - the "Unlocking SIM card..." dialog is removed
Nov 27 09:20:18 <Leeds> and now your SIM card is fried
Nov 27 09:20:32 <xsdg> yeah, dunno, sorry
Nov 27 09:20:39 * xsdg goes off to bed
Nov 27 09:20:41 <tauno> xsdg, never seen this screen before where you see 9 dots (only seen it on screenshots :P )
Nov 27 09:20:48 <Leeds> xsdg: g'night
Nov 27 09:21:03 <xsdg> tauno: oh, you have to turn it on.  Settings -> Security -> Set lock pattern
Nov 27 09:23:01 <tauno> xsdg, oh ok.. if I ever need it, I'll turn it on ;)
Nov 27 09:31:56 <tauno>  what the hell - recording phone calls from background works! Isn't that a WAY bigger security risk than catching keypresses from the background that you baww about here constantly?! Yes, talking to you, google devs ;)
Nov 27 09:33:26 <tauno> or is there any reason that "I record all your calls and post them to the net" is a smaller security issue than "I catch all your keypresses and post them to the net" ?
Nov 27 09:34:39 <romainguy> tauno: you'd like your logins and passwords uploaded? :))
Nov 27 09:34:46 <romainguy> I don't know about recording the phone calls though
Nov 27 09:34:52 <romainguy> I'm sure there's a security permission tied to that
Nov 27 09:35:03 <Lieutenant> you guys! i just hacked my phone.
Nov 27 09:35:12 * Lieutenant gives Lieutenant a round of applause
Nov 27 09:35:48 <DarkriftX> :S
Nov 27 09:36:03 <DarkriftX> i hope you dont mean you typed in a command and it ran :S
Nov 27 09:36:18 <Lieutenant> lol.
Nov 27 09:36:20 <Lieutenant> no comment.
Nov 27 09:36:44 <Lieutenant> i literally got an axe and chopped my phone in half :P
Nov 27 09:36:56 <DarkriftX> nice
Nov 27 09:36:58 <DarkriftX> i want pics :)
Nov 27 09:37:09 <DarkriftX> would make a great post on the forum
Nov 27 09:37:16 <DarkriftX> "this is what happens when you dont know how to use root"
Nov 27 09:37:27 <DarkriftX> it just blew up perfectly in half
Nov 27 09:37:55 <Lieutenant> http://czechrepublic.worldcupblog.org/files/2008/06/broken_phone_l.jpg
Nov 27 09:38:02 <Lieutenant> thats what it looks like when it is broken.
Nov 27 09:38:09 <DarkriftX> LAME
Nov 27 09:38:14 <Lieutenant> :(
Nov 27 09:39:32 <Lieutenant> anyways, its 3 40 am, and i gotta drive all the way to garland tomorrow
Nov 27 09:39:38 <Lieutenant> bye now. i'm tired.
Nov 27 09:40:07 <tauno> romainguy, sure it asks for permission but couldn't an app that monitors keypresses also just require a permission? I just can't understand the reasoning for letting record phone calls but NOT letting capture key presses - IMO the first one is a more serious issue than the second one (beacuse the "usual" Joe Sixpack (or whatever he's called:P) does not use his phone to enter passwords anyway :) )
Nov 27 09:40:40 <Lieutenant> the phone can capture key presses
Nov 27 09:40:46 <romainguy> if you're unhappy about it, file a bug
Nov 27 09:40:48 <Lieutenant> the Music program does it
Nov 27 09:41:02 <romainguy> Lieutenant: an application cannot capture all keypresses
Nov 27 09:41:34 <romainguy> anyway
Nov 27 09:41:35 <Lieutenant> u can hit the little "talk" button on the headphones provided with the phone, and music will start playing/stop playing wherever you are on your phone, whether you are on the itnernt, lookin at pics, etc.
Nov 27 09:41:37 <romainguy> bed time
Nov 27 09:41:50 <romainguy> Lieutenant: that's different :)
Nov 27 09:41:53 <tauno> romainguy, nah, I don't care.. was just wondering if you guys really missed a security thingie there (since capturing keypresses is such a biig security issue for you, I thought that this is an even greater risk) :)
Nov 27 09:41:54 <Lieutenant> oh :(
Nov 27 09:41:55 <Lieutenant> oh well.
Nov 27 09:42:26 <Lieutenant> i tried. maybe someone can exploit that, and make a "triple click on the headphones" hack for a print screen app.
Nov 27 09:42:28 <romainguy> tauno: obviously we think differently :)
Nov 27 09:42:39 <romainguy> Lieutenant: you can't capture the screen either
Nov 27 09:42:54 <Lieutenant> whaa? i thought this guy said he was making a program
Nov 27 09:43:00 <tauno> romainguy, seems so. and that's strange.. I mean.. I really can't understand why one is a bigger risk than the other :(
Nov 27 09:43:14 <romainguy> send an email to android-discuss or something like that
Nov 27 09:43:17 <Lieutenant> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=450741
Nov 27 09:43:47 <Lieutenant> if u can't make screen shot apps, u might wanna warn him before he wastes too much time haha.
Nov 27 09:43:49 <romainguy> that requires root access
Nov 27 09:44:16 <Lieutenant> but its still possible right?
Nov 27 09:44:21 <tauno> romainguy, no, I won't.. don't want to make hackbod angry again (or at least she seems angry every time I read any of her replies to messages regarding such topics)
Nov 27 09:44:31 <romainguy> tauno: she's not angry
Nov 27 09:44:42 <romainguy> it's just that sometimes, some suggestions are... interesting :)
Nov 27 09:44:48 <tauno> :D
Nov 27 09:45:11 <tauno> ok, I'll try my luck but I don't expect much from that :|
Nov 27 09:49:06 <sparkle> screenshots require root or adb access
Nov 27 09:49:08 <sparkle> but yeah
Nov 27 09:50:23 <sparkle> is anyone running regularly with swap?
Nov 27 09:52:52 <Lieutenant> is that droidsans tweak app safe to download?
Nov 27 09:53:02 <Lieutenant> the comments say "its malicous, keeps reinstalling"
Nov 27 09:53:09 <Lieutenant> but others say "it works great"
Nov 27 09:53:25 <sparkle> personally i wouldn't jump on anything brand new that needs root
Nov 27 09:53:33 <sparkle> except scripts that are easy to vet
Nov 27 09:54:45 <Lieutenant> ok great advice. i'll wait.
Nov 27 09:55:05 <sparkle> i mean
Nov 27 09:55:08 <sparkle> think if you'd jumped on rc30 :)
Nov 27 09:55:23 <sparkle> i did and i kicked myself for days
Nov 27 10:01:15 <deebo> how much is a G1 in the UK?
Nov 27 10:01:32 <deebo> (and is it paired to a sim)
Nov 27 10:04:12 <romainguy> what is droidsans supposed to do?
Nov 27 10:11:18 <deebo> hmpf, noones selling unlocked g1's yet?
Nov 27 10:11:26 <deebo> not available here at all yet and i desperately want one
Nov 27 10:11:46 <rahul> i think an unlocked is available in NZ
Nov 27 10:14:15 <eugene> deebo: hehe it's available here, but at a cut-throat price
Nov 27 10:15:25 <deebo> hmpf, guess ill beg teh local retailers to do some grey importing
Nov 27 10:15:44 <deebo> want one but not available at all currently
Nov 27 10:16:02 <eldenz> romainguy, enable auto-rotate
Nov 27 10:16:23 <romainguy> I definitely don't want that then ^^
Nov 27 10:16:28 <eldenz> has a few options, remount rw, check autorotate status, enable, disable, reboot :)
Nov 27 10:16:37 <eugene> deebo: you might want to try ebay :)
Nov 27 10:16:48 <eldenz> works fine for me with the exception for the browser which doesn't seem to support auto-rotate
Nov 27 10:16:59 <deebo> eugene: well id actualyl like a warranty of some sort etc :)
Nov 27 10:17:20 <eldenz> (the only place where it'd be usefull imo)
Nov 27 10:17:34 <romainguy> the browser has a rotate option in the menu
Nov 27 10:17:38 <romainguy> Menu > More
Nov 27 10:18:20 <eldenz> for real? nice, didn't know that :) which is great.. love to discover new things after i've used this thing for days/weeks
Nov 27 10:20:56 <sparkle> hey here's one
Nov 27 10:21:02 <sparkle> is there any way to have the ringer work regularly
Nov 27 10:21:07 <sparkle> when you have a headset plugged in?
Nov 27 10:21:43 <jasta> romainguy: hey, i have a question regarding tasks.  i merged five-music and five-client into the same apk for simplicity and performance reasons, however now i am struggling to make the activities from five-client appear as separate from those of five-music
Nov 27 10:21:52 <tauno> posted my bawwing to android-discuss... wonder if I should have posted it to /dev/null instead :/
Nov 27 10:22:02 <jasta> i tried just giving them a different taskaffinity, but it seems i need some extra magic
Nov 27 10:23:06 <eldenz> jasta, five isn't yet capable to set up the music server without X right?
Nov 27 10:23:21 <jasta> not not currently, but a pretty easy requirement to remove
Nov 27 10:26:26 <eldenz> ok. promising app, exactly what i was looking for :)
Nov 27 10:26:59 <jasta> thx, still much work to do tho :)
Nov 27 10:27:09 <eldenz> haven't yet had the time to set it up, though
Nov 27 10:27:48 <jasta> wait about a week, i am working to greatly improve initial set up performance :)
Nov 27 10:28:01 <eldenz> !
Nov 27 10:28:26 <jasta> ?
Nov 27 10:28:37 <eldenz> good to hear
Nov 27 10:29:16 <User257> Hello.  I am trying to find samsung sgh-a707 firmware to fix my phone.  Could someone direct me to a good channel to ask around about it please?
Nov 27 10:29:26 <eldenz> the deps were what put me off :p i'm not on a debian (derivative) distribution and don't have an X server where i'm planning on using it
Nov 27 10:30:34 <jasta> well the deps are always going to be the same, if not greater :)
Nov 27 10:30:49 <jasta> User257: unlikely.  use google.
Nov 27 10:32:12 <User257> I've been searching for a couple of hours without finding anything links to download it. It doesn't seem to be availble from samsung either :-(  Can Android be installed to it?
Nov 27 10:32:30 <jasta> no
Nov 27 10:32:45 <eldenz> jasta, yes.. i'm not too familiar with the *-dev  packages on debian systems, can they be mapped sometimes to version numbers?
Nov 27 10:32:56 <jasta> what?
Nov 27 10:33:08 <jasta> the -dev packages are just the headers and such necessary to build against those libraries
Nov 27 10:33:19 <User257> Blast.  It's 4:30 am here. I'm going to bed.  My phone is...dead. Screw it.  Thanks.
Nov 27 10:33:25 <jasta> btw, you're on a non-debian derivative?  eww.  gross. :)
Nov 27 10:33:58 <eldenz> ah cool, thanks :) thought they were svn snapshots or something
Nov 27 10:39:11 * sparkle yawns
Nov 27 10:40:00 <eldenz> heh, are there any non-clicky-gui debiany distributions? ;)
Nov 27 10:40:05 <eldenz> unlike ubuntu...
Nov 27 10:40:21 <jasta> uhh yes: Debian.
Nov 27 10:40:51 <eldenz> that's what i thought! :) well, i'll probably have to check it out as soon as i'm in need of a server (re)install
Nov 27 10:41:11 <jasta> what distro do you use currently?
Nov 27 10:41:18 <eldenz> gentoo
Nov 27 10:41:36 <eldenz> on server and desktop. will most likely keep it on desktop but might change for my next server
Nov 27 10:41:36 <jasta> lol, what a pile of crap :)
Nov 27 10:41:42 <eldenz> stfu :p
Nov 27 10:42:01 <jasta> actually, using gentoo, you will find that building five is even more difficult because the package maintainers have elected to provide miserably stupid build options to several packages five needs
Nov 27 10:42:49 <jasta> gentoo maintainers are notorious for grossly misunderstanding the projects they package.  ugh, they are infuriating to upstream developers.
Nov 27 10:43:04 <eldenz> we will see...
Nov 27 10:43:17 <jasta> no, i have already seen.  there is no future tense about it.
Nov 27 10:44:39 <jasta> i have been an upstream dev on the receiving end of that misunderstanding as well.  for instance, sending a package maintainer an e-mail like "please do not package version x.y.z, it is in a highly unstable branch and likely to break binary compat often." you would expect that they respond "ok, sure, no problem."
Nov 27 10:44:52 <jasta> instead they just package it anyway, and direct all support requests to your e-mail address.
Nov 27 10:44:57 <jasta> because they are swell like that.
Nov 27 10:45:10 <eldenz> lol, that's lame
Nov 27 10:45:21 <eldenz> but still, doesn't necessarily have to be the same for all of them
Nov 27 10:45:36 <jasta> yes, and i'm quite certain that somewhere in the gentoo package maintainer handbook it must actually say "Be as lame as possible to everyone."
Nov 27 10:46:00 <eldenz> the build options you are talking about, is that sqlite3 in particular?
Nov 27 10:46:02 <tauno> so you linux guys actually hate eachother too - not only us, windows guys? ;)
Nov 27 10:46:16 <jasta> eldenz: yes, that is one such package.
Nov 27 10:46:35 <sparkle> so not to drift too far on topic
Nov 27 10:46:41 <eldenz> i can easily fix that though by creating my own ebuild ;)
Nov 27 10:46:42 <sparkle> but it this a good place to discuss g1 specific issues too?
Nov 27 10:46:51 <jasta> their default build options for sqlite3 exclude the ability to get column names on your queries, so for instance if you wanted to run a query like SELECT * and figure out what each field was, you would need this option enabled
Nov 27 10:47:45 <eldenz> huh, and why would they compile it without it Oo and even more, why would sqlite itself not enable it by default?
Nov 27 10:47:53 <jasta> eldenz: right, but the point is that i, as an upstream developer, have to tell you now how to build packages that i don't maintain.  simply because i utilized an optional but important feature.
Nov 27 10:48:45 <eldenz> true
Nov 27 10:49:14 <eldenz> what if you do SELECT `id` will you get to know the field name?
Nov 27 10:49:23 <eldenz> without that compile option enabled
Nov 27 10:49:24 <jasta> no, not with this feature gone
Nov 27 10:49:33 <eldenz> :S
Nov 27 10:49:51 <jasta> the feature is to exclude that meta information from the compiled statement
Nov 27 10:50:10 <jasta> as a way to reduce memory overhead, in a tiny and trivial way where that matters
Nov 27 10:50:16 <jasta> for a Gentoo linux machine, it does not matter
Nov 27 10:51:58 <eldenz> but again, why is this not enabled by default by sqlite?
Nov 27 10:52:07 <jasta> i bet it is, actually
Nov 27 10:52:19 <eldenz> i can't see anything in the ebuild that disables it
Nov 27 10:52:35 <jasta> im trying to remember what the option was called...
Nov 27 10:52:47 <jasta> SQLITE_ENABLE_COLUMN_METADATA
Nov 27 10:53:27 <jasta> it is off by default, possibly because the sqlite developers target the defaults toward embedded devices where this _might_ be desirable
Nov 27 10:54:54 <mib_oak0ab> has any one used pvś test framework ?
Nov 27 10:55:07 <mib_oak0ab> packet videoś test framework ?
Nov 27 10:55:40 <eldenz> so the proper way to handle this culprit would now to write a bugreport that requests a use flag for this :p
Nov 27 10:57:35 <jasta> whoa, i found a reproducible way to crash an Android handset
Nov 27 10:58:30 <tauno> release an app "CrashDroid" to the market - it'll be popular for sure
Nov 27 10:58:49 <jasta> not sure exactly what causes this to produce a bug report though...
Nov 27 10:58:59 <jasta> something to do with notifications and remoteviews...
Nov 27 10:59:10 <mib_oak0ab> has any one used pvś test framework ?
Nov 27 10:59:11 <jasta> E/AndroidRuntime(   52): Uncaught handler: thread android.server.ServerThread exiting due to uncaught exception
Nov 27 10:59:12 <mib_oak0ab> packet videoś test framework ?
Nov 27 10:59:14 <jasta> E/AndroidRuntime(   52): *** EXCEPTION IN SYSTEM PROCESS.  System will crash.
Nov 27 10:59:17 <jasta> E/AndroidRuntime(   52): java.lang.NullPointerException
Nov 27 10:59:19 <jasta> E/AndroidRuntime(   52): 	at com.android.server.status.StatusBarService.updateNotificationView(StatusBarService.java:872)
Nov 27 11:00:24 <jasta> oh crap...it's as simple as if you make a RemoteViews with a bogus package name, notify with it, then cancel the notification
Nov 27 11:00:35 <jasta> it borks, crashing the system process, and then the phone
Nov 27 11:02:01 <tauno> jasta, you earned a cookie.
Nov 27 11:03:23 <joeyjones> mib_oak0ab: fail.
Nov 27 11:06:55 <mib_oak0ab> joeyjones wht do u mean buy fail ?
Nov 27 11:07:38 <joeyjones> mib_oak0ab: you spammed the same thing 4 times and still got nothing
Nov 27 11:08:16 <mib_oak0ab> ya but this group is there to share the knowledge and contribute to the opensource community
Nov 27 11:08:29 <jasta> and not here to listen to you spam us :)
Nov 27 11:08:37 <joeyjones> it's a channe, not a group.
Nov 27 11:08:54 <mib_oak0ab> is there no one working in audio video for android ?
Nov 27 11:08:59 <joeyjones> and don;t ask the same shit four times, atleast not within 15min
Nov 27 11:09:08 <joeyjones> *channel
Nov 27 11:09:09 <jasta> tauno: just confirmed it.  inventing a RemoteView package name will crash the phone
Nov 27 11:09:12 <joeyjones> hey jasta
Nov 27 11:09:42 <jasta> tauno: actually, this has serious implications if you think about it.  you could make an app which receives the boot completed action and then triggers this
Nov 27 11:09:43 <mib_oak0ab> if you are not ableto answer jus keep mum
Nov 27 11:09:54 <mib_oak0ab> no need of telling me not to ask
Nov 27 11:09:59 <jasta> thus putting the phone into a state where it must be hard reset as a result of an app installed requesting no special permissions
Nov 27 11:10:33 <jasta> joeyjones: hello
Nov 27 11:11:02 <jasta> mib_oak0ab: just post to one of the many google groups that google maintains
Nov 27 11:13:01 <mib_oak0ab> Hi jasta, i have posted there also
Nov 27 11:14:57 <joeyjones> jasta: seems like you found something relatively nasty :p
Nov 27 11:44:03 <joeyjones> jasta: i used a buddy's htc touch pro today and absolutely hated the interface, apparently it went down hill after the touch vogue
Nov 27 11:45:00 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 27 13:05:36 <mib_gfindster> i am hre
Nov 27 13:17:34 <sparkle> ok, the bluetooth tethering is sweet
Nov 27 13:21:19 <mikey|> hmmm
Nov 27 13:21:30 <mikey|> i requested a black g1, t mob sent me a white one
Nov 27 13:21:36 <mikey|> and it's making creaking noises
Nov 27 13:21:43 <mikey|> on one side of the screen
Nov 27 13:22:36 <tauno> you are holding it too tight
Nov 27 13:22:52 <tauno> :)
Nov 27 13:22:57 <mikey|> definetly not
Nov 27 13:23:15 <mikey|> slightest pressure makes the noise
Nov 27 13:24:02 <tauno> mine is also very noisy - if I touch it it's squeaking and cracking etc..
Nov 27 13:24:31 <tauno> no matter where I touch it.. on the sider or on the back
Nov 27 13:24:55 <tauno> can't pick it up from the table without making these sounds :(
Nov 27 13:25:18 <tauno> I haven't noticed it till you said so :| Now it start to bother me a lot I think..
Nov 27 13:25:56 <tauno> just compared it to other phones around here.. can't get a single noise out of them
Nov 27 13:26:42 <tauno> (ok, If I squeeze the N78 REALLY HARD, then I can hear something)
Nov 27 13:26:45 <joeyjones> my htv vogue makes almsot no noises...
Nov 27 13:27:05 <joeyjones> excep for one spot on the batteyr cover and only since i got an extended battery
Nov 27 13:27:14 <joeyjones> *except
Nov 27 13:27:32 <joeyjones> and btw, i almsot have android working on my vogue, it jsut has no internet
Nov 27 13:59:35 <mib_gfindster> any developers
Nov 27 13:59:54 <mib_gfindster> test
Nov 27 13:59:59 <jbq> pong
Nov 27 14:00:09 <mib_gfindster> hi
Nov 27 14:07:26 <mikey|> well, that was disappointing :(
Nov 27 14:07:43 <mikey|> to change to a black one, they will have to cancel my contract and re do the whole thing
Nov 27 14:07:53 <mikey|> just went with an exchange instead
Nov 27 14:09:35 <ttuttle> mikey|: what do you have?
Nov 27 14:10:04 <mikey|> a white g1
Nov 27 14:10:35 <ttuttle> mikey|: ah
Nov 27 14:10:59 <ttuttle> mikey|: did you ask for white?
Nov 27 14:11:08 <mikey|> no, black one but it never got noted down
Nov 27 14:11:17 <ttuttle> mikey|: :(
Nov 27 14:11:23 <mikey|> yeah :|
Nov 27 14:11:29 <tauno> what's up with android-discuss list? I sent an email like 6 hours ago and it has not appeared there.. are the messages printed out at some point, then snail mailed to somebody, who takes a picture of the mail on a wooden desk, and then scans the picture back in and posts it to the real list?
Nov 27 14:11:40 <mikey|> the reviews werent joking when they said its hard to type on
Nov 27 14:11:42 <ttuttle> tauno: hehehe
Nov 27 14:11:49 <ttuttle> mikey|: it gets better
Nov 27 14:11:59 <ttuttle> mikey|: ^'m typing on mine now.
Nov 27 14:12:00 <jbq> tauno: is this your first post?
Nov 27 14:12:04 <sparkle> but it's so cute
Nov 27 14:12:06 <ttuttle> ~ I'm :-\
Nov 27 14:12:16 <tauno> jbq, no
Nov 27 14:12:18 <ttuttle> * * I'm :-O
Nov 27 14:13:10 <mikey|> ^ thats my irc app :D
Nov 27 14:13:27 <tauno> android-devel is the same.. that's one of the reasons I stopped posting there.. the posts took forever to appear there :(
Nov 27 14:13:36 <jbq> I think that new users are moderated for a few posts (spam is a real issue otherwise), and that the moderators sleep at night.
Nov 27 14:13:49 <Al|> .
Nov 27 14:14:22 <ttuttle> jbq: sleep?  pfft.
Nov 27 14:14:44 <jbq> and since today is a major holiday in the US moderation might be a bit more lengthy than usual.
Nov 27 14:14:50 <tauno> jbq, eh.. I made >20 posts to devel and I didn't notice that it got faster at some point..
Nov 27 14:15:05 <languish> I'm surprised Google didn't put out a little thanksgiving app or wallpaper or something through the market
Nov 27 14:15:08 <tauno> ah.. maybe i WAS spamming :P
Nov 27 14:15:22 <jbq> uh, heh!
Nov 27 14:15:45 <languish> and Happy Thanksgiving.. to those it applies :)
Nov 27 14:16:11 <tauno> ah.. you are eating turkeys there today? (at least that's how I understand it from the movies :P)
Nov 27 14:16:33 <mikey|> hmm...why does the debugger never connect to my app when running it on my phone?
Nov 27 14:16:34 <languish> tauno, well a big family dinner later yeah, likely there will be turkey
Nov 27 14:16:35 <jbq> heh - I feel like an outsider, not having any family here. To me Thanksgiving is a 4-day ski week-end that's so early in the season that you risk not having any snow at all.
Nov 27 14:16:49 <mikey|> i selected use debugging
Nov 27 14:16:49 <ttuttle> jbq: :(
Nov 27 14:16:54 <mikey|> s/use/usb
Nov 27 14:17:26 <languish> jbq, heh. you could always find a different 4 day excursion activity :)
Nov 27 14:17:28 <joeyjones> mikey|: when a useable virtual keyboard comes out you may find it easier than the hardware qwerty
Nov 27 14:18:01 <languish> though, snowless snowbunnies at a ski lodge might not be a terrible way to pass the time
Nov 27 14:18:45 <joeyjones> languish: at that point it's probably cheaper to find a club :p
Nov 27 14:19:06 <languish> :)
Nov 27 14:19:34 <languish> yeah, but they won't be app dressed up in those cute pufy snow parkas
Nov 27 14:19:38 <languish> app/all
Nov 27 14:20:16 <jbq> it'll be cool. I got a condo for 3 nights, there are restaurants and stuff just downstairs, and I can spend some quality time with my wife, without working from early morning to late night.
Nov 27 14:20:39 <tauno> "The period from Thanksgiving Day to New Year's Day often is called the holiday season. @ wikipedia" huh, the holiday season is like form 20dec to 1stjan here - way shorter than there it seems :)
Nov 27 14:21:24 <languish> tauno, eventually the US will be one big holiday season all year round, except for labor day where everyone will got to work.
Nov 27 14:21:36 <joeyjones> tauno: the americans are always looking for an excuse to pretend they're on holiday
Nov 27 14:21:42 <tauno> :)
Nov 27 14:21:46 <languish> jbq, sounds nice man, complete with your own snowbunny :)
Nov 27 14:21:54 <jbq> :)
Nov 27 14:22:07 <languish> joeyjones, who's pretending? :D
Nov 27 14:22:18 <joeyjones> well fuck me, it's 2c outside right now
Nov 27 14:22:23 <tauno> "The Friday after Thanksgiving, colloquially known as Black Friday" I see.. that's the day of the year when you get everything for basically free? ;)
Nov 27 14:22:26 <joeyjones> we could almsot get snow today :p
Nov 27 14:22:47 <joeyjones> tauno: like boxing day
Nov 27 14:22:53 <joeyjones> and it starts the shopping season
Nov 27 14:23:15 <languish> We also have "cyber monday" now too, the marketing people established in the last few years
Nov 27 14:24:45 <tauno> we had like the worst snowstorm in the past 10 years here on sunday and monday.. I drove 5h on the highway to get 78km.. was a total nightmare.. buses and trucks were sideways everywhere, even the "damn big snow cleaning vehicles"(whatever they are called in english) were stuck in the middle of the highway
Nov 27 14:26:25 <joeyjones> tauno: i;d have jsut said fuck it, and found a hotel.
Nov 27 14:26:58 <joeyjones> then again, i frive a motorcycle.
Nov 27 14:27:01 <joeyjones> *drive
Nov 27 14:27:02 <tauno> joeyjones, there are no hotels in between the two cities :P
Nov 27 14:27:07 <joeyjones> ouch
Nov 27 14:28:06 <languish> tauno, sounds like a great opportunity to "rescue" some cute girl and cuddle for the weekend.
Nov 27 14:28:07 <tauno> there's basically nothing in between.. just a road and some small villages with ~5 houses (also no shops/gasstations etc in between)
Nov 27 14:28:20 * languish cup half full
Nov 27 14:28:36 <joeyjones> languish: that's where my hotel plan was leading
Nov 27 14:28:42 <languish> joey :)
Nov 27 14:29:23 <tauno> languish, I already have one :) (the bonus was that there was also a small child in the car (back seat, behind me) who cried and threw up on me.. 2 times)
Nov 27 14:29:37 <languish> ossum, parenthood.
Nov 27 14:30:05 <languish> then when it's in its teens, it'll come home drunk, and throw up on you all over again
Nov 27 14:30:19 <tauno> was not my child ;)
Nov 27 14:30:29 <tauno> (yes, we like to steal children here)
Nov 27 14:30:30 <languish> small favors.. eh
Nov 27 14:37:09 <tauno>  there's silence anyway here so I might spam as well: that's how it looked like in the city: http://f.postimees.ee/f/2008/11/23/96522t41h29c9.jpg and that's how it looked like on the road: http://f.postimees.ee/f/2008/11/23/96565t41h08c2.jpg (I'm sure the road is also on the picture.. I just can't find it)
Nov 27 14:38:22 <eugene> tauno: wow where's that
Nov 27 14:39:27 <tauno> eugene, Estonia
Nov 27 14:41:59 * mikey| groans
Nov 27 14:42:09 <mikey|> whose idea was it to put myspace and facebook in bookmarks
Nov 27 14:44:34 <joeyjones> mikey|: they are the few sites that google has yet uo buy up
Nov 27 14:44:37 <joeyjones> *to
Nov 27 14:44:42 <joeyjones> :p
Nov 27 14:54:57 <Disconnect> tauno: where is that?
Nov 27 14:55:14 * Disconnect is in a sunny 34 degree (1C) day and its still warming up
Nov 27 14:56:24 <Disconnect> guess its time for v2 of the writeup. before someone submits it to slashdot or some such and my server gets hammered flat.
Nov 27 14:57:39 <mikey|> is it not possible to correct to a mail server with a self signed cert with g1 email?
Nov 27 14:57:54 <jbq> not in the current version.
Nov 27 14:58:02 <mikey|> :|
Nov 27 14:58:05 <sparkle> mikey|: not unless you edit the keys file yourself
Nov 27 14:58:11 <mikey|> how can i do that?
Nov 27 14:58:14 <sparkle> and add a cert authority
Nov 27 14:58:20 <sparkle> do you have root on the handset?
Nov 27 14:58:26 <mikey|> dont think so
Nov 27 14:58:34 <mikey|> i did a ota system update
Nov 27 14:58:57 <Disconnect> mikey|: it is possible. you set "ssl if available" and it'll accept any key
Nov 27 14:59:04 <mikey|> hmm
Nov 27 14:59:28 <Disconnect> harder to sniff, but still subject to MITM attacks (it doesn't store/verify the cert)
Nov 27 15:01:00 <mikey|> gotta have to try it later
Nov 27 15:01:04 <mikey|> bye
Nov 27 15:01:21 <sparkle> Disconnect: i don't believe that it will accept self-signed keys
Nov 27 15:01:28 <sparkle> but i'm not sure, that's just what i've heard
Nov 27 15:01:58 <Disconnect> ...yes, it will. it just doesn't verify them - encryption happens, but nothing prevents someone from stepping in between and pretending to be the server
Nov 27 15:03:13 <sparkle> well, yes - it was my impression that on the g1, the CA was cross referenced against /system/etc/security/cacerts.bks
Nov 27 15:03:28 <sparkle> but if that's not an issue then great
Nov 27 15:14:48 <Disconnect> it is. you can't get -verified- connections. you can get it to connect -anyway- (accepting any cert at all) by setting "if available"
Nov 27 15:17:55 <joeyjones> since i;ve been idling in this chan there has been atleast 2 security issues mentioned every day :p
Nov 27 15:18:07 <Disconnect> they are basically repeats
Nov 27 15:18:18 <joeyjones> not all of them
Nov 27 15:45:00 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 27 15:52:18 <mpardo> do i need to escape ampersands in Toast strings?
Nov 27 15:53:34 <Alien_Freak> hey guys.. is there anyway to load data onto the android for linux?  I have it connected via usb, but don't see any external device or equivalent that I can mount
Nov 27 15:53:50 <sparkle> do you just want to copy to the sdcard?
Nov 27 15:54:36 <Alien_Freak> yah... I was actually just wanting to upload some wallpapers/musci.. though I haven't put in an SD card yet... that probably does help...
Nov 27 15:54:43 <sparkle> heh yeah
Nov 27 15:54:52 <tauno> mpardo, I don't think so
Nov 27 15:54:59 <Leeds> the device is somewhat crippled without an SD card
Nov 27 15:55:30 <sparkle> i like my Adata 8gb class 6 - fast and cheap
Nov 27 15:55:31 <mpardo> my toast messages are getting truncated when they encounter an ampersand (&)
Nov 27 15:56:03 <tauno> mpardo, smells like a bug to me :(
Nov 27 15:56:15 <mpardo> lol with my app or with android?
Nov 27 15:56:17 <Leeds> I just got a 4GB... cheap enough to be un-noticeable
Nov 27 15:56:25 * sparkle nods
Nov 27 15:57:05 <sparkle> if you have a chunk of unix userland out on the card...a raw ext2 partition is noticably faster than doing a loopback image within /sdcard, btw
Nov 27 15:57:06 <Alien_Freak> now where do I put the SD card in.. is that by the battery?
Nov 27 15:57:11 <tauno> mpardo, with android, if you are sure that it's just the & sign that breaks the rendering
Nov 27 15:57:18 <mpardo> i'll debug
Nov 27 15:57:30 <sparkle> Alien_Freak: slide open the display, and look on the right side facing you
Nov 27 15:57:39 <sparkle> there's a tiny panel there that pops out
Nov 27 15:58:06 <TiberiumX> Yeah, that's tough to find.
Nov 27 15:59:02 <Alien_Freak> oh, micro SD.. that's different
Nov 27 15:59:07 <Alien_Freak> got it.. it seems i have a 1gb one
Nov 27 15:59:24 <Leeds> yeah, you should get one with the phone
Nov 27 15:59:26 <TiberiumX> Yeah, comes with one.
Nov 27 15:59:29 * sparkle nods
Nov 27 15:59:43 <Alien_Freak> back to my original question.. how do i put stuff on the sd card?
Nov 27 15:59:53 <sparkle> you may need to go to the menu and say "unmount"
Nov 27 16:00:06 <sparkle> i think the behavior changed slightly with firmware versions
Nov 27 16:00:18 <Leeds> plug the phone in... if you've got a recent build, you'll get a notification which will let you choose to export the card over USB as a mass storage device
Nov 27 16:00:20 <sparkle> then it'll give you a notification in the top bar asking if you want to let the pc have it
Nov 27 16:00:25 <sparkle> yeah
Nov 27 16:01:15 <Alien_Freak> that's just.. too easy.. feels like cheating
Nov 27 16:01:42 <Alien_Freak> you mean.. I don't have to spend 3 weeks researching this..and figure out how to reverse engineer this stuff in order to copy data to it?  *gasp*  wth .. i feel cheated
Nov 27 16:01:57 <sparkle> it's ok, this thing is annoying enough as it is :)
Nov 27 16:02:13 <sparkle> but overall i'm pretty happy
Nov 27 16:02:24 <Alien_Freak> same
Nov 27 16:02:26 <TiberiumX> Haha, my brother was having that problem recently with his LG Dare.  I really hate phone manufacturers.
Nov 27 16:02:37 <Alien_Freak> so.. wallpapers go in the Camera folder?
Nov 27 16:03:03 <Leeds> I think they go whereever you like and the picture list will find them - it's pretty unstructured as far as the directory layout goes
Nov 27 16:03:28 <Alien_Freak> oh.. that's good
Nov 27 16:03:42 <Alien_Freak> ipod has a tendancy to delete stuff I don't put in the right place... and get angry at me
Nov 27 16:03:43 <TiberiumX> I guess it scans when it remounts the SD?
Nov 27 16:04:32 <Leeds> this ain't an ipod :-)
Nov 27 16:05:18 <ironfroggy_> Leeds: you're everywhere!
Nov 27 16:05:43 <Leeds> everywhere you want to be :-)
Nov 27 16:06:04 <sparkle> mm
Nov 27 16:06:40 <ironfroggy_> you're mastercard?
Nov 27 16:06:48 <sparkle> so are some others here working on regrooving stuff on the handset with root?
Nov 27 16:10:04 <ironfroggy_> i want tethering. i know thats a broken record but dammit i need it.
Nov 27 16:10:14 <Leeds> infobot: tethering
Nov 27 16:10:15 <infobot> tethering is, like, http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/515
Nov 27 16:11:03 <ironfroggy_> the bot is a highschool girl?
Nov 27 16:11:16 <Leeds> infobot: tell ironfroggy_ about Leeds
Nov 27 16:12:06 <ironfroggy_> wtf
Nov 27 16:12:37 <sparkle> ironfroggy_: do you want it over wifi or bluetooth?
Nov 27 16:12:56 <Leeds> ironfroggy_: some of that is true...
Nov 27 16:15:31 <ironfroggy_> sparkle: which is possible/easiest?
Nov 27 16:15:41 <ironfroggy_> more importantly, which takes less battery power?
Nov 27 16:15:56 <sparkle> they're both fairly comparable
Nov 27 16:16:01 <sparkle> in terms of "how easy"
Nov 27 16:16:03 <sparkle> both take root
Nov 27 16:16:10 <sparkle> battery power i have no idea
Nov 27 16:16:19 <ironfroggy_> i tried the socks option a week ago and had no luck
Nov 27 16:16:28 <sparkle> yeah that was a pretty hackish hack
Nov 27 16:17:51 <sparkle> i have the wifi tether script fired out of a cgi, launched by lighttpd
Nov 27 16:18:02 <sparkle> it's cheesy but it lets me turn it on from one tap on the desktop
Nov 27 16:20:02 <ironfroggy_> i still havent set up the sdk. does any of this require i go through that first?
Nov 27 16:20:57 <Leeds> I assume you have root?
Nov 27 16:25:00 <ironfroggy_> i have rc30 and i downloaded the sudo and terminal apps but havent dont anything with them yet
Nov 27 16:25:21 <Leeds> what sudo app?
Nov 27 16:25:32 <sparkle> do you have patched rc30?
Nov 27 16:25:39 <sparkle> or the rc30 that was sent ota?
Nov 27 16:27:38 <Leeds> ironfroggy_: there is no known exploit - not known to me, anyway :-) - for the 'official' rc30... there is a patched developer-friendly rc30, but if you didn't install that, you probably don't have root on your own device
Nov 27 16:28:26 <ironfroggy_> ok i didnt know the situation, like i said.
Nov 27 16:28:29 <ironfroggy_> i just installed and never used it.
Nov 27 16:28:52 <Leeds> you probably can't use it now
Nov 27 16:29:13 <ironfroggy_> i can wait for a "legit" app
Nov 27 16:29:52 <sparkle> hopefully you won't have to wait a long time
Nov 27 16:30:01 <sparkle> the g1 is pretty well locked down as of rc30
Nov 27 16:37:12 <loke_> any news on any coming android phone which is not limited/locked down?
Nov 27 16:37:47 <Versed> I just here rumors.
Nov 27 16:37:48 <ironfroggy_> im thinking of getting another line on my plan with a phone that has known unlocked or unlockable bluetooth modem support
Nov 27 16:38:00 <Versed> hear
Nov 27 16:38:22 <loke_> ironfroggy_: "unlocked bluetooth modem support"? wouldn't that be pretty much any phone except the iphone?
Nov 27 16:38:46 <Leeds> a lot of phones in the US are crippled by the network which sells them
Nov 27 16:39:20 <loke_> Leeds: well yeah, I heard that... but most of those phones are also available unlocked from any third-party vendor, yes?
Nov 27 16:39:25 <Versed> yes
Nov 27 16:39:29 <sparkle> yeah
Nov 27 16:39:30 <Versed> and one can debrand.
Nov 27 16:39:33 <sparkle> i loved my old nokia 9300
Nov 27 16:39:39 <Versed> I have an att tilt.
Nov 27 16:39:46 <Leeds> yes, as long as you're willing to pay the full retail price
Nov 27 16:39:50 <sparkle> slow and clunky but it never got in your way
Nov 27 16:39:57 <Versed> it runs the stock kaiser 6.1 w.w.e
Nov 27 16:39:58 <loke_> Leeds: well yeah, but that's a given
Nov 27 16:40:22 <loke_> (although here, even the discounted phones are unlocked. I think it's by law since even the iphone is sold that way here)
Nov 27 16:40:24 <Leeds> but people are mislead by the $199 iPhone into thinking they can actually buy a phone for that price, so when someone tries to charge $400+ for one, they get unhappy
Nov 27 16:40:39 <Leeds> and it's not like you get a discount on your monthly fees if you bring your own phone, right?
Nov 27 16:40:48 <loke_> Leeds: you do
Nov 27 16:40:49 <ironfroggy_> well i specifically want one i can get that will work easily with my existing tmobile account
Nov 27 16:40:52 <loke_> Leeds: why wouldn't you?
Nov 27 16:41:04 <Versed> you don't have to sign a contract if you bring your own phone.
Nov 27 16:41:06 <loke_> you get a discount on the phone if you sign up for a certain number of months
Nov 27 16:41:08 <Versed> or buy one outright.
Nov 27 16:41:15 <loke_> ya
Nov 27 16:41:20 <joeyjones> is it possible to get 2 phones setup to the same account?
Nov 27 16:41:28 <Versed> I paid for the g1 and going month to month
Nov 27 16:41:28 <tauno> why not..
Nov 27 16:41:38 <sparkle> it depends on what you mean by "same account"
Nov 27 16:41:51 <Versed> most carriers allow up to 5 lines on the same account.
Nov 27 16:41:52 <Leeds> Versed: and are you paying $15-$20 less per month than if you'd signed up for a contract?
Nov 27 16:41:59 <joeyjones> like one basic phone and a ppc setup for the same contract/account
Nov 27 16:42:00 <mikey|> Disconnect: your idea about the ssl options worked, thanks :)
Nov 27 16:42:05 <Versed> no leeds same price.
Nov 27 16:42:26 <Versed> but, don't intend to stay with them for more then a month or two.
Nov 27 16:42:26 <Leeds> Versed: so my point stands - you don't save money on your monthly by bringing your own phone
Nov 27 16:42:42 <Versed> gonna unlock and use on my att line.
Nov 27 16:42:42 <Leeds> loke_: where are you?
Nov 27 16:42:44 <Versed> yes leeds.
Nov 27 16:42:48 <loke_> Leeds: Singapore
Nov 27 16:42:53 <sparkle> on the other hand you're not beholden to a cell co, and that's worth at least something
Nov 27 16:43:00 <Versed> its worth alot.
Nov 27 16:43:08 <Leeds> ah, another one!  I haven't been to Singapore for, oh, 5 days now :-)
Nov 27 16:43:21 <loke_> Leeds: another one? I spoke to you before, didn't I?
Nov 27 16:43:23 <Leeds> I heard the G1 was a lot more expensive in Singapore than here in Hong Kong
Nov 27 16:43:31 * sparkle twiddles vm parameters
Nov 27 16:43:31 * Leeds pokes eugene 
Nov 27 16:43:34 <Versed> I paid $399US
Nov 27 16:43:35 <xsdg> oh, cool.  I have a good friend who's in Singapore for work
Nov 27 16:43:37 <loke_> Leeds: I haven't seen the g1 here at all
Nov 27 16:44:01 <Leeds> eugene told me they were going for something like 40% more than here
Nov 27 16:44:04 <loke_> Leeds: I'm willing to buy one when it becomes available though
Nov 27 16:44:49 <loke_> Leeds: hmm, yeah... they probably have it if I head over to Lucky Plaza. They sell all sorts of stuff there. That's where I bought my PS3 back when it was only released in the US and HK
Nov 27 16:45:03 <Leeds> I got mine at the equivalent place in HK
Nov 27 16:45:17 <Leeds> grey import T-Mobile US one
Nov 27 16:45:37 <sparkle> does 3g work over there leeds?
Nov 27 16:45:48 <loke_> Leeds: maybe I should go over there again. They have a tendency to try to rip you off if you don't know exactly what you want to buy
Nov 27 16:45:57 <Versed> it has euro spec 2100
Nov 27 16:46:08 <loke_> but I got both my PS3, my PSP and my Nokia E61 (back when it was completely new) there
Nov 27 16:46:14 <loke_> and they all still work :-)
Nov 27 16:46:41 <Leeds> sparkle: I haven't really tried it, but there's no reason why it shouldn't
Nov 27 16:46:56 <Leeds> I have a nice cheap unlimited EDGE/GPRS+wifi contract :-)
Nov 27 16:46:59 <loke_> Leeds: HK is well covered by HSDPA right?
Nov 27 16:47:02 * sparkle nods
Nov 27 16:47:09 <Leeds> loke_: yup, AFAIK
Nov 27 16:47:16 <loke_> Leeds: EDGE? wtf?
Nov 27 16:47:18 <loke_> why?
Nov 27 16:47:22 <sparkle> i can't believe i'm rnuning lmbench on a phone :p
Nov 27 16:47:41 <sparkle> loke_: i actually find it surprisingly useful over EDGE
Nov 27 16:47:42 <loke_> here, pretty much the entire country is blankeded by HSDPA coverage. It's very nice
Nov 27 16:47:43 <Alien_Freak> so.. i have a question.. i saw some howto where they install debian on the G1 and get root etc on the phone.  I presume that makes the g1 useless as a phone...
Nov 27 16:47:49 <sparkle> in fact i think it's the fastest EDGE handset i've ever used
Nov 27 16:47:52 <sparkle> Alien_Freak: no
Nov 27 16:47:59 <Leeds> because it costs about US$15 a month for unlimited use - and yeah, the EDGE works pretty well
Nov 27 16:48:03 <sparkle> it doesn't change the phone experience part of it at all
Nov 27 16:48:16 <sparkle> you're just grafting on additional packages, not replacing anything
Nov 27 16:48:16 <Alien_Freak> wait.. so I can install a full debian system with root and everything..and still have a working phone?
Nov 27 16:48:20 <sparkle> da
Nov 27 16:48:20 <mikey|> can you browse the net via the pc when the g1 is connected to a pc?
Nov 27 16:48:34 <loke_> Leeds: I pay about 70 SGD for unlimited HSDPA
Nov 27 16:48:50 <sparkle> janet@janetsbrick:~$ uname -a
Nov 27 16:48:50 <sparkle> Linux janetsbrick 2.6.25-01843-gfea26b0 #21 PREEMPT Mon Nov 17 02:32:09 UTC 2008 armv6l GNU/Linux
Nov 27 16:48:52 <loke_> Leeds: including unlimited access at all the Wireless@SG WLAN hotspots (of which there are plenty)
Nov 27 16:48:54 <sparkle> janet@janetsbrick:~$ gcc -v
Nov 27 16:48:56 <Leeds> that's HK$350 - I pay $115 or so
Nov 27 16:48:56 <sparkle> gcc version 4.3.2 (Debian 4.3.2-1)
Nov 27 16:48:57 <sparkle> :)
Nov 27 16:49:02 <Leeds> wireless@SG is free anyway :-P
Nov 27 16:49:11 <loke_> Leeds: only crippled
Nov 27 16:49:18 <Leeds> fine for a tourist like me...
Nov 27 16:49:26 <sparkle> Alien_Freak: think of android as a fairly standard linux kernel with some extra drivers, and a very stripped down userland
Nov 27 16:49:31 <loke_> Leeds: without an account, you only get slow access (512 kb/s I believe)
Nov 27 16:49:40 <Leeds> anyway, my HK$115 also includes unlimited use of my mobile network's wifi
Nov 27 16:49:43 <sparkle> if you graft on a more full featured userland, most things just work
Nov 27 16:49:56 <sparkle> but there's no direct access to the display or audio hardware sorted yet
Nov 27 16:49:59 <Leeds> I could get unlimited HSDPA for about the same amount, to be honest
Nov 27 16:50:05 <loke_> then again, I have another HSDPA dongle for my Mac Air. :-)  so there is little point of ever having to bother with WLAN
Nov 27 16:50:28 <Leeds> anyway, it's almost 1am, and both of us should probably be in bed!
Nov 27 16:50:45 <loke_> HSDPA is pretty much the same speed as WLAN, so there is no point of having WLAN support on a phone here
Nov 27 16:51:00 <loke_> Leeds: true... work tomorrow
Nov 27 16:51:08 <Leeds> payday tomorrow :-D
Nov 27 16:52:03 <loke_> was today for me
Nov 27 16:52:05 <loke_> :-)
Nov 27 16:52:25 <loke_> btw... one of the hotels in Mumbai was the one I usually stay at
Nov 27 16:52:33 <Leeds> also, if I'm really lucky, I might hear from immigration tomorrow about getting me a new visa
Nov 27 16:52:40 <loke_> I was originally planning to go again in a couple of weeks
Nov 27 16:52:48 <Leeds> damn :-(
Nov 27 16:54:33 <loke_> ya
Nov 27 16:54:39 <loke_> new visa for HK?
Nov 27 16:54:53 <Leeds> yeah
Nov 27 16:55:23 <loke_> what kind of visa do you have?
Nov 27 16:55:30 <loke_> you have been there for a few years, right?
Nov 27 16:55:37 <Leeds> yeah, but I've been in and out of work
Nov 27 16:56:18 <loke_> and now?
Nov 27 16:56:36 <Leeds> I'm waiting for a visa
Nov 27 16:56:45 <loke_> but do you have a job?
Nov 27 16:56:54 <loke_> if I lose my job, I lose my permit...
Nov 27 16:57:05 <Leeds> of course not!  I don't have a visa, so I don't have a job
Nov 27 16:57:06 <mikey|> whats with the spam on android groups?
Nov 27 16:57:09 <Leeds> however, tomorrow is payday
Nov 27 16:57:13 <loke_> I think I'll apply for a permament residency. then I don't have to worry about that
Nov 27 16:57:40 <Leeds> I've applied for a non-job-related residency... but the paperwork is a nightmare
Nov 27 16:58:34 <loke_> bureocracy?
Nov 27 16:58:48 <Leeds> points-based - 20 points for a bachelor's degree, 10 points for speaking English, 30 points for being under 40, etc.
Nov 27 16:59:01 <loke_> argh
Nov 27 16:59:02 <loke_> silly
Nov 27 16:59:16 <Leeds> why?
Nov 27 16:59:42 <loke_> because those points doesn't reflect the truth
Nov 27 16:59:45 <Leeds> the problem is proving my qualifications - and in particular, proving my 'financial stability' - in other words, you have to prove you could live without either a job or government money
Nov 27 16:59:47 <Leeds> why not?
Nov 27 17:00:11 <loke_> Leeds: well, degree for example.
Nov 27 17:00:27 <Leeds> what about it?
Nov 27 17:00:45 <loke_> why should it matter what your degree was if it's 15 years ago and you work with something completely different now?
Nov 27 17:01:30 <Leeds> you can also include professional qualifications
Nov 27 17:01:55 <Leeds> they don't care what your degree is in, as long as you have one
Nov 27 17:02:19 <Leeds> they *do* care how much professional experience you've had, and at what level of seniority
Nov 27 17:02:29 <Leeds> this is a relatively small program, separate from the regular work visa
Nov 27 17:03:03 <loke_> well, it's just a pet feeve of mine, since I never graduated myself
Nov 27 17:03:20 <loke_> I have worked my way to the position I have
Nov 27 17:03:21 <Leeds> then you wouldn't qualify for this program
Nov 27 17:03:38 <loke_> ...which is why it's silly, since I'm much more qualified than most people who do qualify :-)
Nov 27 17:03:50 <Leeds> you might be able to qualify for a regular work visa, if you can show you have enough experience to make up for it
Nov 27 17:04:04 <loke_> I would
Nov 27 17:04:28 <Leeds> I have no idea how old you are... but if you are less than, say, 35, I would guess they'd probably refuse you
Nov 27 17:04:35 <loke_> 15 years, and various leader positions
Nov 27 17:04:45 <Leeds> you're 15?  no chance then :-P
Nov 27 17:04:51 <loke_> I'm 35
Nov 27 17:04:54 <loke_> 15 years experience
Nov 27 17:04:56 <Leeds> borderline
Nov 27 17:05:08 <Leeds> I've got 10 years experience and I wouldn't expect to qualify
Nov 27 17:05:15 <loke_> interesting
Nov 27 17:05:46 <loke_> here they seem to go very much on your salary... I think they have the opinion thta if the employer thinks you're worth that much, then they're ok with it :-)
Nov 27 17:05:56 <Leeds> of course it's an over-generalisation, but if they have to deal with thousands, tends of thousands of applicants, they need to control things somehow
Nov 27 17:06:19 <Leeds> yeah, salary is a factor as well - if you're earning less than around $20k (SG$4k or so) they won't look at you
Nov 27 17:06:29 <loke_> Leeds: :-)
Nov 27 17:06:45 <loke_> Leeds: I earn significantly more than that :-)
Nov 27 17:06:55 <Leeds> anyway, my point is that the particular scheme I've applied under has certain criteria
Nov 27 17:06:59 <Leeds> so do I, of course
Nov 27 17:07:35 <loke_> they're holding back a bit on the bonuses this year though
Nov 27 17:07:37 <VersedG1> well good luck
Nov 27 17:07:55 <loke_> I guess I should be happy my employer pays any at all this year, given the market conditions
Nov 27 17:08:12 <Leeds> as I said, you also need to prove you have access to enough money to survive for a year with no job or government support - that's a non-trivial qualification as well
Nov 27 17:08:36 <loke_> Leeds: how? by showing them the bank account?
Nov 27 17:08:43 <Leeds> yup
Nov 27 17:08:44 <VersedG1> ouch
Nov 27 17:09:07 <Leeds> or in my case, a title deed to my flat in London, a recent valuation, a mortgage statement, and a copy of my contract of sale from when I bought it
Nov 27 17:09:15 <loke_> Leeds: well, leveing in a place like HK, that should be doable... you need that much savings anyway to cover for unforseen situations
Nov 27 17:09:18 <Leeds> that's the sort of thing I mean by nightmare paperwork
Nov 27 17:09:42 <loke_> ya
Nov 27 17:09:46 <loke_> I can see that
Nov 27 17:10:08 <Leeds> it doesn't have to be liquid cash, just assets you could liquidate if you needed food money
Nov 27 17:11:02 <loke_> right now, cash feels good :-)  (I lost quite a bit on the stock market, thankyouverymuch)
Nov 27 17:11:21 <Leeds> I've got property in London... probably down 20% or so from peak...
Nov 27 17:11:38 <loke_> Leeds: that'll come back up though
Nov 27 17:11:50 <loke_> my apple stock... perhaps not as fast
Nov 27 17:11:50 <Leeds> hope so
Nov 27 17:11:55 <Leeds> ah
Nov 27 17:12:03 <Leeds> I have some Sun stock from when I worked there :-)
Nov 27 17:12:14 <loke_> I don't... thank god :-)
Nov 27 17:12:29 <VersedG1> well i here ya my retirement accounts are ikking
Nov 27 17:12:43 <loke_> when I quit they offered me options to stay
Nov 27 17:13:01 <loke_> hah... they were proven to be completely worthless just a few months later when the stock really tanked
Nov 27 17:13:05 <Leeds> where?
Nov 27 17:13:14 <loke_> Leeds: sun
Nov 27 17:13:22 <Leeds> oh!  in .sg?
Nov 27 17:13:38 <loke_> Leeds: No. Stockholm, where I'm originally from
Nov 27 17:14:29 <Leeds> hmm... I did bump into one or two Swedes, I think...
Nov 27 17:14:43 <Leeds> eh, more than 3.5 years since I was laid off
Nov 27 17:14:59 <Leeds> I had options, I don't think any of them were ever above water
Nov 27 17:15:17 <loke_> Leeds: I quit myself, but I wanted to rejoin after about 9 months... but then they had stopped all new hirings
Nov 27 17:15:33 <Leeds> and they're still laying off now
Nov 27 17:15:40 <loke_> yep
Nov 27 17:15:48 <loke_> I got out at the right time
Nov 27 17:16:02 <loke_> kinda sad though. it was really a fantastic place to work
Nov 27 17:16:12 <Leeds> it was
Nov 27 17:16:37 <Leeds> anyway, really time for bed now
Nov 27 17:16:53 <loke_> ya, it is
Nov 27 17:17:58 <Leeds> g'night
Nov 27 17:18:06 <loke_> good night
Nov 27 17:27:56 <cipher__> hi all
Nov 27 17:28:10 <cipher__> i am using O2 ATOM LIFE
Nov 27 17:28:28 <cipher__> it is using an Xscale processor based on ARM
Nov 27 17:28:49 <cipher__> and i had sucessfully cross compiled it for ARM
Nov 27 17:29:11 <cipher__> though i was wonder if there is any documentation to bootstrap it on that phone
Nov 27 17:32:10 <cipher__> usuually the image for WM6 is one file
Nov 27 17:32:45 <cipher__> but the android comes with 3 files..system.img, ramdisk.img and userinfo.img
Nov 27 17:34:13 <Versed> might want to ask those guys on xda-dev.com
Nov 27 17:34:50 <vol_> look at the boot script in the root dir on the emulator
Nov 27 17:36:49 <KNY> hey guys, what could cause an uninstall to fail?
Nov 27 17:36:54 <cipher__> init.rc?
Nov 27 17:37:26 <vol_> cipher__: Maybe. There's a script in the root dir, at least on the emulator, saying how the system boots itself
Nov 27 17:37:31 <vol_> I don't remember the name, though
Nov 27 17:37:37 <vol_> and don't have an emulator running (or my phone hooked up)
Nov 27 17:38:35 <cipher__> on the emulator it works fine
Nov 27 17:38:58 <cipher__> but just hoping it'll work on the real h/w
Nov 27 17:39:54 <cipher__> now the root directory is compressed into system.img
Nov 27 17:41:15 <cipher__> along with the binary and applications
Nov 27 17:52:13 <budwaa> Keep getting an error from eclipse sdk "annotations are only available if source level is 1.5" This is using some of the android demo code...Some kind of java version issue?
Nov 27 17:52:53 <synalx> you need to set the source level of your project to 1.5
Nov 27 17:53:51 <budwaa> nice one
Nov 27 17:54:17 <warren> Hmm, anyone know the difference between T-Mobile's $25 and $35/mo data plans?
Nov 27 17:54:43 <Versed> 25 is 400 texts, 35 is unlimited texts
Nov 27 17:54:48 <warren> The $25/mo says 400 text msgs or e-mails.  I'm guessing that is e-mails if you use THEIR e-mail?
Nov 27 17:55:20 <Versed> I assume.
Nov 27 17:55:34 <Versed> wonder if it counts the gmail ones?  or is that over on the data side
Nov 27 17:55:35 <Versed> ?
Nov 27 17:55:45 <languish> it doesn't count the gmail
Nov 27 17:55:55 <Versed> thanks
Nov 27 17:56:01 <languish> id does count any IM other than gtalk
Nov 27 17:56:07 <languish> id/it
Nov 27 17:56:24 <Versed> unless you use another client
Nov 27 17:56:33 <Versed> which uses the net.
Nov 27 17:56:43 <languish> yes when one is available.
Nov 27 17:56:58 <warren> I would assume they would try to prevent you from loading alternative clients?
Nov 27 17:57:04 <languish> nope.
Nov 27 17:57:08 <Versed> nope
Nov 27 17:57:12 <warren> hmm
Nov 27 17:57:27 <Versed> I thought I saw some in the market
Nov 27 17:57:28 <warren> How durable is that HTC phone?  HTC has been pretty scary in the past.
Nov 27 17:57:56 <languish> don't assume. android is an experiment.  Just be aware the current skype app in the market, uses minutes.
Nov 27 17:57:59 <Versed> well, I have an att tilt, doesn't seem near as well made.  but honestly it can be perception over reality.
Nov 27 17:58:05 <languish> (it's not called skype, I forget the name)
Nov 27 17:58:07 <warren> I guess my main problem is 1 year left on my Sprint Treo 700p contract.  $200 to break the contract even if there is 1 month left. =(
Nov 27 17:58:31 <Versed> try to get someone to take over your contract.
Nov 27 17:58:41 <Versed> there is a website for that.
Nov 27 17:58:52 <Versed> if its a sero plan, you will have no problems.
Nov 27 17:58:58 <warren> sero?
Nov 27 17:59:40 <warren> I realized that I'm paying $22/mo for data and insurance with Sprint, and I never used either.
Nov 27 17:59:50 <warren> The Treo is so terrible
Nov 27 17:59:57 <synalx> can you get insurance through t-mobile?
Nov 27 18:00:07 <Versed> yes
Nov 27 18:00:12 <languish> synalx, yes.. but consider if it's really worth it.
Nov 27 18:00:24 <languish> there's a deductable
Nov 27 18:00:24 <Versed> but its $4.99 per month, and $120 for replacement
Nov 27 18:00:28 <languish> read the info on the plan
Nov 27 18:00:34 <warren> $120?
Nov 27 18:00:36 <Versed> yes
Nov 27 18:00:37 <Damm> warren, i dropped my G1 5feet and all that happened was the battery cover popped off... put it back on and no damage
Nov 27 18:00:37 <synalx> oh, yeah, then totally not worth it
Nov 27 18:00:50 <Versed> I just got mine a few days ago, the salesperson went over it.
Nov 27 18:00:53 <Versed> its not worth it.
Nov 27 18:01:00 <Versed> better of taking ones chances.
Nov 27 18:01:08 <warren> $120 no matter how the damage was caused?
Nov 27 18:01:12 <Versed> seeing, you have a 1 year warrenty anyway
Nov 27 18:01:18 <synalx> well, replacing it yourself...
Nov 27 18:01:23 <Versed> accidental is included
Nov 27 18:01:26 <synalx> would be $180, correct?
Nov 27 18:01:27 <warren> other companies are $0 unless they prove it was physical or liquid, then $50
Nov 27 18:01:33 <Damm> if it's stolen and you replace it yourself it's 499$
Nov 27 18:01:38 <Damm> or whatever the G1 is without a contract
Nov 27 18:01:43 <Versed> $400
Nov 27 18:01:46 <synalx> why without a contract?
Nov 27 18:01:47 <Versed> well 399
Nov 27 18:01:48 <warren> synalx: I dunno, the price seems to be $400 without the subsidy
Nov 27 18:02:02 <Damm> because your old contract stands
Nov 27 18:02:06 <Damm> and is not canceled
Nov 27 18:02:09 <Versed> I bought mine off contract, month to month.
Nov 27 18:02:20 <Damm> unless t-mobile is willing to let you extend your contract and subsidize it
Nov 27 18:02:22 <synalx> i got my g1 at $180 on my old t-mobile contract
Nov 27 18:02:27 <Damm> that's per customer service basis
Nov 27 18:02:34 <Damm> synalx, right because you were up for a renewal?
Nov 27 18:02:37 <synalx> nope
Nov 27 18:02:42 <Damm> then you signed a new contract
Nov 27 18:02:44 <synalx> i think i had like 9 months left on a 2-year
Nov 27 18:02:46 <Damm> you may not be aware of it
Nov 27 18:02:49 <Damm> yes
Nov 27 18:02:50 <warren> Damm: did you get a free unlock code?  searching online it seems tmobile will unlock after 90 days for free.
Nov 27 18:03:07 <Damm> you can sign a new contract after 1year (on a 2year)
Nov 27 18:03:08 <Damm> 6months on a 1year
Nov 27 18:03:08 <synalx> ahh
Nov 27 18:03:16 <Damm> you signed a NEW contract.
Nov 27 18:03:36 <Damm> warren, i didn't buy mine contract free, but if you do... supposidly they give it to you immediately.
Nov 27 18:03:38 <warren> You now owe them two of your first newborns.
Nov 27 18:03:50 <warren> Damm: ooh
Nov 27 18:04:13 <Versed> Some guy on the efnet #android got his for $198 at walmart for a one year contract.
Nov 27 18:04:34 <warren> Versed: with tmobile?
Nov 27 18:04:38 <Versed> yes
Nov 27 18:05:37 <synalx> Damm: yeah, i know, my new contract is 2 years from the purchase date of my g1
Nov 27 18:06:13 <Versed> I plan on, in a few months using it on at&t
Nov 27 18:07:00 <warren> Hmm, my monthly rate for the rest of the year contract can go to $38/mo if I cancel insurance and data which I never use.  Then after 7 months the cost of canceling Sprint early is equal to what I would pay them for the rest of the contract, so I could get a G1.
Nov 27 18:07:15 <warren> Perhaps by then there will be more Android phones on the market?
Nov 27 18:07:25 <Versed> I have an aircard through sprint.
Nov 27 18:07:27 <warren> Versed: AT&T's network is better?
Nov 27 18:07:31 <synalx> or just wait for Sprint to change their TOS
Nov 27 18:07:31 <Versed> it is very good.
Nov 27 18:07:40 <synalx> and cancel your contract without fee
Nov 27 18:07:46 <Versed> I would tell you but don't wantr to get into a carrier war.
Nov 27 18:07:49 <warren> synalx: what is the chance of that?
Nov 27 18:07:56 <synalx> cell phone companies do it all the time
Nov 27 18:08:01 <Versed> its contract is done in april
Nov 27 18:08:42 <Versed> when, it does, att's teethering on bb is only $10 bux then what I spend now, and this area is all 3g hsdpa.
Nov 27 18:08:54 <Versed> my other phone is a bold.
Nov 27 18:09:03 <Versed> btw, its 3g for tmo too.
Nov 27 18:09:15 <synalx> t-mobile is a really good company in the areas they cover
Nov 27 18:09:24 <warren> Is there an official tethering app?  I saw something crappy that is only a SOCKS proxy.
Nov 27 18:09:24 <synalx> they just don't have coverage in the boonies like verizon/at&t do
Nov 27 18:09:30 <warren> no NAT or PPP
Nov 27 18:09:38 <synalx> no true tethering yet
Nov 27 18:09:52 <synalx> that relies on the Bluetooth API that's still being worked on
Nov 27 18:10:04 <Damm> someone got bluetooth pan working on their G1
Nov 27 18:10:05 <warren> I haven't been following android news so much.  Is it clear if any non-G1 Androids are coming in the next 7 months?
Nov 27 18:10:06 <Damm> course it required root
Nov 27 18:10:13 <Versed> too bad my e71 doesn't have 1700 umts, because, nokia's tether real easy
Nov 27 18:10:25 <Damm> Versed, wouldn't matter you need AWS support
Nov 27 18:10:33 <Versed> right damn
Nov 27 18:10:39 <Damm> even if your phone supports the frequency, without AWS it's pointless.
Nov 27 18:10:44 <synalx> yeah, anything until that bluetooth api is out
Nov 27 18:10:49 <synalx> will just be a hack
Nov 27 18:10:52 <Versed> warren sprint is in with the android foundation
Nov 27 18:10:52 <synalx> and not mass-market
Nov 27 18:10:55 <Versed> I would assume they would get something
Nov 27 18:11:03 <warren> hm
Nov 27 18:11:11 <Damm> no one's pushing out an android for like a year or so?
Nov 27 18:11:14 <Damm> i forget
Nov 27 18:11:20 <Damm> maybe 6-8months before AT&T gets theirs
Nov 27 18:11:22 <warren> Sprint's network is pretty dire in the boonies
Nov 27 18:11:25 <Damm> and AT&T says they want it to be more open
Nov 27 18:11:53 <Versed> at&t joined the symbian foundation.
Nov 27 18:11:55 <sparkle> warren, if you have root
Nov 27 18:12:00 <sparkle> you can tether over wifi or bluetooth
Nov 27 18:12:09 <Versed> and getting stuff like an e71 an other nokia symbian phones.
Nov 27 18:12:27 <sparkle> Disconnect got the bt module working
Nov 27 18:12:43 <Versed> damn, I bet longer then 8 months, unless you get something on the unlocked market.
Nov 27 18:12:47 <languish> infobot bluetooth
Nov 27 18:12:48 <infobot> well, bluetooth is at http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/Is%20anyone%20working%20on%20Bluetooth%20for%203870 or at http://dnsv6.iihe.ac.be/iPAQGPRSv6/BtConfig.html .. and you might wanna take a look at http://bluez.sourceforge.net/contrib/HOWTO-Mobile-Phone, or at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/chan_btp+%E2%80%94+Bluetooth+Presence+Tutorial
Nov 27 18:12:57 <warren> I rather not rely on jail breaking that will only be blocked by an over-the-air update
Nov 27 18:14:00 <sparkle> the point is, you don't accept the ota updates
Nov 27 18:14:02 * sparkle shrugs
Nov 27 18:14:10 <Damm> thing is rooting your phone you can turn off ota updates
Nov 27 18:14:15 <Damm> and then manually update your phone
Nov 27 18:14:27 <Damm> once you start installing the kernel/etc from the source tree, you are OTA free
Nov 27 18:14:31 <sparkle> if you're comfortable with unix, i'd say do it
Nov 27 18:14:32 <sparkle> but
Nov 27 18:14:36 <sparkle> if you just want a phone
Nov 27 18:14:41 <sparkle> it may be easier not to
Nov 27 18:14:48 <Damm> if you just wanted a phone, wtf did you buy a G1 for?
Nov 27 18:14:51 <Lieutenant> so there was this one black kid right?
Nov 27 18:14:58 <Lieutenant> he had called 911 because his mom was being murdered
Nov 27 18:15:07 <Lieutenant> and the cops thought he was pranking them so ignored the boy
Nov 27 18:15:13 <sparkle> damm, honestly, i don't think of the g1 as a very capable "smartphone" as is
Nov 27 18:15:16 <Lieutenant> he called a second time, they still ignoredhim
Nov 27 18:15:43 <Lieutenant> then finally the boy was crying soo hard on the 3rd time, that the 911 people decided to comply
Nov 27 18:15:51 <Lieutenant> when they got to the boys house, his mom was dead.
Nov 27 18:15:56 <sparkle> being able to work on it as a unix system turns it from a locked down toy to a very useful tool for me
Nov 27 18:15:58 <Lieutenant> i dont know why i told u that story, but yeah.
Nov 27 18:15:59 * sparkle shrugs
Nov 27 18:16:02 <Lieutenant> how's ur day been?
Nov 27 18:16:44 <Versed> hey lieut
Nov 27 18:16:51 <Versed> getting ready to go out.
Nov 27 18:17:01 <Versed> to the irc ap loaded on he g1 ok.
Nov 27 18:17:01 <Damm> sparkle, works just fine for me for what i want... text messages, email, im... occasional terminal, and consolebot
Nov 27 18:17:15 <synalx> i really think that the whole "root the phone" and "deny OTA updates" philosopy is the wrong idea
Nov 27 18:17:41 <warren> sparkle: I'm very comfortable with Linux.  I however want something that is completely open, and changes that I make can go upstream back into official builds, so it isn't a PITA later to maintain when I don't feel like hacking it.
Nov 27 18:18:07 <sparkle> what's "completely open" mean
Nov 27 18:18:14 <Lieutenant> cool!
Nov 27 18:18:18 <sparkle> the hardware, the kernel, the userland, the apps, ?
Nov 27 18:18:36 <Lieutenant> it means, legs spread, clothes off, and ready to wrestle.
Nov 27 18:18:40 <warren> The phone company can't deny what I'm supposed to do on my own phone.
Nov 27 18:18:43 <sparkle> :p
Nov 27 18:18:58 <Lieutenant> hey this hacking stuff isn't illegal is it?
Nov 27 18:18:58 <Versed> no but if you hose the phone they don't have to make good on it either.
Nov 27 18:19:05 <sparkle> then there are ten zillion handsets out there that are like that already
Nov 27 18:19:14 <warren> like?
Nov 27 18:19:23 <Lieutenant> hey this hacking stuff isn't illegal is it?
Nov 27 18:19:25 <sparkle> my nokia communicators?
Nov 27 18:19:32 <Versed> no
Nov 27 18:19:47 <Versed> only thing illegal is to clone imei's.
Nov 27 18:19:58 <Versed> and I guess messin with the actually radio transmission
Nov 27 18:20:08 <Versed> actual
Nov 27 18:20:25 <Versed> esn's if you're on he cdma side.
Nov 27 18:20:26 <Lieutenant> but we didn't do that, right?
Nov 27 18:20:33 <Versed> exactly
Nov 27 18:20:38 <Lieutenant> k good. and 1 more thing
Nov 27 18:20:41 <sparkle> Akeys versed
Nov 27 18:20:50 <Lieutenant> if i had to return this, is there a way to change everything back?
Nov 27 18:20:55 <sparkle> and MEIDs
Nov 27 18:21:03 <Versed> that I have no idea.
Nov 27 18:21:12 <Versed> there is a restore function on the phone
Nov 27 18:21:21 <sparkle> that just clobbers userdata
Nov 27 18:21:36 <sparkle> you can get a stock rc30 update that will overlay a hacked one
Nov 27 18:21:41 <Versed> its not like the iphone where you can just download and reinstall the os.
Nov 27 18:21:53 <Lieutenant> oh u can just get a stock rc30/
Nov 27 18:21:54 <Lieutenant> ?
Nov 27 18:22:00 <Lieutenant> i'll do that if i return it.
Nov 27 18:22:09 <warren> how stable is the OS and apps btw?
Nov 27 18:22:11 <Versed> I bet they would never know.
Nov 27 18:23:02 <Lieutenant> okay, i dont know how "leet" you guys are at hacking or whatever, but is there a way to make the volume louder? darn thing is too quiet compared to my other phones.
Nov 27 18:23:05 <sparkle> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=451090
Nov 27 18:26:18 <marix_g1> happy tday gents
Nov 27 18:26:35 <Versed> same to you
Nov 27 18:26:41 <marix_g1> infobot tday
Nov 27 18:26:48 <Lieutenant> oh i see.
Nov 27 18:27:51 <Lieutenant> hey is it safe to download that droidsans program that turns the phone?
Nov 27 18:28:09 <ultimind> Make sure you have RC30 v1.2 before you run Droidsans
Nov 27 18:28:21 <sparkle> i wouldn't jump on something like that myself
Nov 27 18:28:49 <sparkle> oh awesome, i've got lmbench numbers for the g1 :)
Nov 27 18:28:55 <sparkle> god they suck
Nov 27 18:29:25 <ultimind> how bad?
Nov 27 18:30:38 <sparkle> here's steams
Nov 27 18:30:39 <sparkle> Function      Rate (MB/s)   Avg time     Min time     Max time  Copy:         115.0261       0.2002       0.1391       0.3361  Scale:         56.5393       0.3716       0.2830       0.5797  Add:           63.0054       0.5778       0.3809       1.0109  Triad:         42.9369       0.8656       0.5590       1.9260
Nov 27 18:30:45 <sparkle> streams
Nov 27 18:31:21 <sparkle> so it's heavily memory bandwidth constrained
Nov 27 18:31:26 <sparkle> which i guess isn't a huge surprise
Nov 27 18:31:28 <warren> hmm, if you used a hacked firmware with OTA disabled, you rely on 3rd parties to supply updates forever?
Nov 27 18:31:49 <sparkle> or you roll your own
Nov 27 18:31:53 <sparkle> but you have to ask yourself
Nov 27 18:31:59 <sparkle> what's coming out in an update that makes it worth it
Nov 27 18:32:02 <ultimind> I know they have to balance battery life vs. performance... but you'd think they can do better than that
Nov 27 18:32:09 <sparkle> i'd rather be the judge of that than have an update foisted of on me
Nov 27 18:32:30 <warren> Is there any drawback to the hacked firmware?  does it lock you out from any marketplace apps?
Nov 27 18:32:41 <warren> all updates coming from OTA are also pushed to the upstream code?
Nov 27 18:32:56 <ultimind> Marketplace functions 100% w/ hacked firmware
Nov 27 18:32:56 <sparkle> i'm not sure what you mean by that
Nov 27 18:33:19 <warren> bug fixes or security fixes that you would get from OTA, are they pushed to upstream android?
Nov 27 18:33:26 <sparkle> btw ultimind, do you run with paging at all?
Nov 27 18:33:34 <sparkle> they come from upstream android
Nov 27 18:33:51 <ultimind> sparkle: paging?
Nov 27 18:34:06 <sparkle> demand paging, "swapping", etc
Nov 27 18:34:26 <sparkle> a couple tunables seem to help a lot
Nov 27 18:34:33 <ultimind> I'm afraid I don't quite follow you
Nov 27 18:34:41 <ultimind> I haven't modified anything from the stock RC30 v1.2
Nov 27 18:34:52 * sparkle nods
Nov 27 18:38:33 <warren> I assume if I get a new G1, the old root hacks wont work
Nov 27 18:38:41 <warren> are new root exploits found regularly?
Nov 27 18:39:13 <sparkle> none so far
Nov 27 18:50:43 <P2E> warren: the one that just arrived is rc29, there's hope
Nov 27 18:56:28 <Damm> eventually there will be post RC30 hacks
Nov 27 18:56:45 <Damm> it's just no one has really bothered to mess with post RC30... as RC29 was easy enough to root and stay rooted with
Nov 27 18:57:11 <cviedmai> Hi! a fast question! when I buy software for the android, the license is just for 1 year, or forever?
Nov 27 18:57:37 <mikey|> wouldnt that depend on the developer?
Nov 27 18:59:31 <cviedmai> :(
Nov 27 19:11:53 <Disconnect> warren: only 1 root hack has ever been found, actually.
Nov 27 19:12:08 <Disconnect> and it wasn't a hack so much as it was a complete lack of any security audit
Nov 27 19:16:14 <Damm> Disconnect, that's because no one hsa really tried.
Nov 27 19:16:27 <Damm> Disconnect, injecting a suid su or something like that would be worth while in update.zip
Nov 27 19:16:28 <Disconnect> i know some people who are working on it from the reflash-devices angle.
Nov 27 19:16:52 <Disconnect> and the updater has some gaps but exploiting them is risky
Nov 27 19:21:28 <mikey|> how can i add my own ringtones to the g1?
Nov 27 19:21:40 <mikey|> and the browser accept files as homepages?
Nov 27 19:44:37 <mikey|> i have a html file which i want to set as my homepage, i've tried file:///sdcard/home.html and /sdcard/home.htm
Nov 27 19:44:52 <mikey|> neither of them work, any clue how to get it to load?
Nov 27 19:45:00 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 27 19:47:54 <xsdg> mikey|: the browser doesn't currently access files from the sd card (I'm not sure what the rationale is)
Nov 27 19:48:11 <mikey|> :(
Nov 27 19:48:29 <mikey|> i just save a html page with links to site i commonly browse
Nov 27 19:48:34 <mikey|> did that with my pda also
Nov 27 19:48:35 <Disconnect> probably its not "secure"
Nov 27 19:51:11 <Disconnect> ok i officially fucking hate this wireless implementation. its "excellent" connection and its sitting near several other devices, all of whch work. but it can't manage to stay connected for more than 5-10 seconds. (passes data just fine while connected, but then it bails - for no visible reason - and goes back to edge) fucking dumb
Nov 27 19:51:19 <eldenz> is there a way to make the g1 vibrate on an incoming sms? (or notifications in general, fine as well)
Nov 27 19:53:19 <budwaa> dgalert
Nov 27 19:53:30 <budwaa> what encryption are you using? WPA2?
Nov 27 19:54:25 <eldenz> weeeh, thanks budwaa :)
Nov 27 19:55:06 <sparkle> disconnect, ow
Nov 27 19:55:09 <budwaa> np
Nov 27 19:55:26 <sparkle> i live across the street from an apartment complex of students...i can see something like a dozen ssids being broadcast
Nov 27 19:55:37 <sparkle> makes getting reception from my own a real pain
Nov 27 19:57:15 <eldenz> ah budwaa it's even possible in Messaging app... i just never thought there are settings as well. but dgAlert owns more (with the custom vibrate)
Nov 27 19:57:40 <budwaa> yeah
Nov 27 19:57:48 <budwaa> Its a guy in here that made it :D
Nov 27 19:58:07 <budwaa> guy/girl \o/
Nov 27 19:59:18 <Disconnect> budwaa: yah wpa2
Nov 27 20:01:54 <jasta> yawn
Nov 27 20:02:43 <jasta> anyone around that has worked with task affinity before?
Nov 27 20:08:58 <KNY> is it possible to have a ListActivity but customize the layout?
Nov 27 20:09:01 <KNY> if that makes any sense
Nov 27 20:09:25 <KNY> I'd like to have a button or something at the top of the list, then all the items in the list like normal
Nov 27 20:10:54 <romainguy> KNY: yes
Nov 27 20:10:55 <jasta> KNY: yes, just make sure you have a listview called @android:id/list and another called @android:id/empty
Nov 27 20:11:01 <romainguy> or you can just not use a ListActivity :)
Nov 27 20:11:13 <KNY> romainguy, yeah, I just found ListView in the docs
Nov 27 20:11:47 <jasta> i prefer not to use listactivity personally.  i dont use it anywhere in my apps.
Nov 27 20:12:11 <romainguy> yeah it doesn't give much
Nov 27 20:13:44 <KNY> romainguy, what is the point of having two ListViews (one with @android:id/list and another @android:id/empty)?
Nov 27 20:13:57 <romainguy> you should not have two listview
Nov 27 20:14:05 <romainguy> the empty view can be anything you want
Nov 27 20:14:10 <romainguy> it's usually a textview or imageview
Nov 27 20:14:15 <romainguy> it's a view shown when the list is empty
Nov 27 20:14:30 <KNY> ahh
Nov 27 20:14:43 <eldenz> hm, wasn't there a file/text editor app? what's its name?
Nov 27 20:15:32 <KNY> Notepad?
Nov 27 20:16:06 <elephant> eit
Nov 27 20:16:08 <eldenz> i mean one that can edit files on my /sdcard for example
Nov 27 20:16:35 <eldenz> i think it was actually a filebrowser (with support for editing files) but not Bender
Nov 27 20:16:53 <jasta> romainguy: do you know about taskAffinity and such?  having a problem i can't figure out now that i've merged my two APKs into one
Nov 27 20:17:07 <romainguy> I used it a long time ago :)
Nov 27 20:17:11 <romainguy> so I don't remember
Nov 27 20:17:28 <jasta> hmm ok.  i'm reading the app model docs now maybe ill just figure it out on my own :)
Nov 27 20:17:33 <romainguy> but if I remember correctly it's meant to create tasks across process?
Nov 27 20:18:06 <romainguy> yep that's pretty much it
Nov 27 20:18:23 <romainguy> it can also be used if your apk as several top level apps inside
Nov 27 20:18:29 <romainguy> you can give them different task affinities
Nov 27 20:21:02 <jasta> right, which i have done
Nov 27 20:21:14 <jasta> and i'm missing some magic clearly, because it works just the same as if i had not specified taskAffinity
Nov 27 20:23:10 <Gast_820_> hi
Nov 27 20:24:01 <jasta> romainguy: i think my problem is this Intent.FLAG_ACTIVITY_NEW_TASK business
Nov 27 20:24:20 <jasta> "When starting a new activity without the Intent.FLAG_ACTIVITY_NEW_TASK flag, task affinities have no impact on the task the new activity will run in" -- does home start my activity with FLAG_ACTIVITY_NEW_TASK?
Nov 27 20:25:17 <jasta> oh, it must.  i see it or'd in the flags in the log
Nov 27 20:36:31 <Lieutenant> topic is really outdate
Nov 27 20:36:33 <Lieutenant> dated
Nov 27 20:38:03 <KNY> romainguy, I'm a bit confused on this ListView. When using ListActivity, the XML defines how each row will look--how is that done when not using a ListActivity?
Nov 27 20:52:30 <romainguy> KNY: the same way
Nov 27 20:53:09 <KNY> is there an example you know of off the top of your head?
Nov 27 20:55:21 <mikey|> arg..i pressed forgot pattern and now it keeps asking me for my gmail a/c details but it keeps saying password is wrong
Nov 27 20:55:31 <mikey|> i logged into gmail fine on my laptop
Nov 27 20:55:57 <mikey|> is there anyway to go back to the pattern screen?
Nov 27 20:56:02 <romainguy> KNY: it really is no different than with ListActivity
Nov 27 20:56:10 <romainguy> the XML that defines each row is passed to the adapter
Nov 27 20:56:16 <romainguy> it goes the same in a standard Activity
Nov 27 20:56:33 <romainguy> except you have to call setAdapter() on the ListView itself
Nov 27 20:57:07 <KNY> romainguy, hmm, thanks. I'll play with it and see how far I can get
Nov 27 20:58:20 <romainguy> it really is easy :)
Nov 27 20:58:29 <romainguy> you can even look at the source of ListActivity to see what it does
Nov 27 20:58:33 <romainguy> which is pretty much nothing
Nov 27 21:08:11 <KNY> romainguy, I think I got it. I was just having a brain fart I guess
Nov 27 21:09:08 * offby1` fans the air with one hand and holds his nose with the other
Nov 27 21:28:48 <mikey|> silly me, i needed to type the full email address in to unlock it
Nov 27 21:29:45 <offby1`> mikey|: are you saying that, if you forget your unlock pattern, the phone will mail it to your gmail account, to remind you?
Nov 27 21:29:57 <sparkle> no
Nov 27 21:30:00 <mikey|> no, you have to login to your gmail ac
Nov 27 21:30:03 <sparkle> it will ask you for your google login
Nov 27 21:30:04 <sparkle> yeah
Nov 27 21:30:07 <mikey|> i was only typing the part before @
Nov 27 21:31:09 <offby1`> it's your _phone_ that asks for your account?
Nov 27 21:31:40 <offby1`> that's kind of odd.  If someone finds the phone, and fails to guess your lock code, it'll then email it to them, just because they entered their email address?  I'm sure I'm missing something crucial here.
Nov 27 21:31:55 <JesusFreke> I suspect he's talking about the initial activation?
Nov 27 21:32:15 <offby1`> could be
Nov 27 21:32:16 <joeyjones> besides the android sdk is there anything i should read or use to start developing for the android?
Nov 27 21:32:21 <romainguy> offby1`: only if the email address matches the account is suspect
Nov 27 21:32:23 <offby1`> Can't remember how that initial activation worked; it was a while ago
Nov 27 21:32:28 <romainguy> which means you would also need the password to the account
Nov 27 21:32:50 <offby1`> romainguy: but then why bother asking at all?  Why not just send the lock code to the phone's owner without requiring the person to type anything at all?
Nov 27 21:33:09 <romainguy> because it
Nov 27 21:33:13 <offby1`> oh, I see.
Nov 27 21:33:14 <offby1`> :)
Nov 27 21:33:14 <romainguy> it's one more thing you have to know
Nov 27 21:33:28 <offby1`> just the gmail address of the rightful owner?  I suppose that's reasonable.
Nov 27 21:33:47 <offby1`> so: don't write your email address on your phone, in a "if found, please return to" note.
Nov 27 21:34:17 <romainguy> offby1`: you still need the password to the email account :))
Nov 27 21:35:18 * mikey| slaps the designer of itv.com
Nov 27 21:35:23 <mikey|> so much flash, yuk
Nov 27 21:44:52 <ttuttle> offby1`: no, it needs to be *your* account.
Nov 27 21:46:13 <ttuttle> romainguy: Hey, can I ask you a question in pm?
Nov 27 21:46:20 <romainguy> sure
Nov 27 21:49:22 <mohbana> where can i guy the G1 android handset only in UK?
Nov 27 21:50:17 <ttuttle> Hey, any Googlers (other than romain) around?  I've got a potential bug.
Nov 27 21:50:33 <romainguy> just file it
Nov 27 21:56:52 <ttuttle> romainguy: Well, I wanna make sure it's not just me.
Nov 27 21:57:31 <mohbana> where can i guy the G1 android handset only in UK?
Nov 27 22:01:39 <ttuttle> mohbana: Stop asking the same question over and over.
Nov 27 22:01:46 <ttuttle> mohbana: You asked that 7 minutes ago.
Nov 27 22:01:50 <ttuttle> mohbana: If anyone knows, they will answer.
Nov 27 22:01:57 <ttuttle> mohbana: Honestly, though, you're better off searching the internet.
Nov 27 22:02:25 <ttuttle> Ah.
Nov 27 22:02:29 <ttuttle> That usually doesn't work.
Nov 27 22:21:08 <couch> hello, it seems i am having a problem when trying to install the eclipse android plug-in
Nov 27 22:22:11 <couch> something about wst.see.ui not being installed, how would i go about installing this?
Nov 27 22:23:38 <couch> anyone? and sorry for the noob question, im sure you guys get this alot.
Nov 27 22:31:29 <eldenz> couch, http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=wst.see.ui&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Nov 27 22:31:40 <eldenz> first looks about right
Nov 27 22:32:08 <couch> alright, thank you.
Nov 27 22:32:19 <eldenz> you're welcome
Nov 27 22:33:01 <eldenz> "eclipse 3.3.1.1 Classic doesnt come with WST; so I guess we must download Eclipse for Java"
Nov 27 22:37:35 <mikey|> am i the only one who dislikes having to zoom in and out when browsing :/
Nov 27 22:38:06 <rocapal> hi!
Nov 27 22:38:15 <infernixx> ho!
Nov 27 22:39:42 <rocapal> Is accessible the compass api? I don't see in doc api
Nov 27 22:39:43 <eldenz> i hardly ever zoom
Nov 27 22:43:35 <infernixx> mikey|: get opera mini then and set it to mobile mode
Nov 27 22:48:22 <romainguy> rocapal: it is accessible, look for the sensors API
Nov 27 22:52:17 <rocapal> romainguy, thanks. Is the android.hardware.SensorManager class?
Nov 27 22:52:22 <romainguy> yes
Nov 27 22:57:35 <rocapal> thanks romainguy :-)
Nov 27 23:22:54 <dob1> hi, i am not able to install the eclipse plugin
Nov 27 23:23:09 <dob1> if i point to https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ it is a 404 not found
Nov 27 23:45:01 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 27 23:45:19 <offby1> does IznastY ever say anything besides an auto-away message?
Nov 27 23:46:19 <JesusFreke> I heard he once thought about saying something..
Nov 27 23:46:28 <JesusFreke> :D
Nov 27 23:48:03 <offby1> by mentioning his nick, I just got some auto-spam in a private message
Nov 27 23:48:12 <offby1> I double-dare anyone here to mention his nick.
Nov 28 00:06:25 <eldenz> dob1, i remember i had the same problem... and somehow figured out the working url
Nov 28 00:07:00 <phyburn> is anyone using the virtual voice mail for the G1?
Nov 28 00:07:06 <eldenz> but can't remember and i don't have eclipse around
Nov 28 00:07:21 <eldenz> dob1, In Step 4, try changing the remote update site URL to use http, rather than https.
Nov 28 00:07:47 <eldenz> http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html
Nov 28 00:10:27 <offby1> phyburn: what's that?
Nov 28 00:10:56 <phyburn> its like what the iphone has
Nov 28 00:11:00 <phyburn> for voice mail
Nov 28 00:11:07 <phyburn> you dont have to call anything, its just downloaded to your phone
Nov 28 00:17:08 <offby1> sounds handy
Nov 28 00:20:32 <bert0>  /return
Nov 28 00:21:42 <phyburn>  /hello
Nov 28 00:21:48 <bert0> ha
Nov 28 00:22:15 <bert0> how do I make this thing stop saying I'm away?
Nov 28 00:23:18 <offby1> whup it upside the haid, naturally
Nov 28 00:24:13 <eugene> bert0: /away again
Nov 28 00:26:35 <bert0> thanks
Nov 28 00:26:49 <bert0> I've been away for a long long time, it's good to be back
Nov 28 00:28:10 <eugene> bert0: welcome back
Nov 28 00:29:23 <bert0> Has anyone here ever known anyone with a zune?  why would M$ think its a good idea to make a zune phone?
Nov 28 00:31:37 <VersedBold> They already do.  Its called wm
Nov 28 00:33:51 <offby1> I met someone who once saw a zune.
Nov 28 00:34:47 <VersedBold> I've seen them they aren't bad but they don't thrill me either.
Nov 28 00:38:18 <languish> My wife and I have zunes. Got 'em cheap, we're happy with 'em.
Nov 28 00:39:19 <languish> Mostly use the zunes to watch vcasts and tv shows while commuting
Nov 28 01:05:12 <dob1> i resolve the point of downloading the eclipse plugin, i downloaded the zip version but i have another question
Nov 28 01:05:40 <dob1> a beginner question, i am playing with a tutorial, but once i have started the emulator, every time i make a change to the code
Nov 28 01:05:50 <dob1> i have to re-run the emulator?
Nov 28 01:06:06 <dob1> it takes a lot of time
Nov 28 01:06:41 <Leeds> can't you just reload your code into the running emulator?
Nov 28 01:07:57 <dob1> Leeds: just to understand, i can just re-run the code with eclipse and it will update the application on the emulator?
Nov 28 01:08:05 <Leeds> I don't use eclipse
Nov 28 01:08:17 <Leeds> but you *should* be able to do that, yes
Nov 28 01:09:23 <dob1> Leeds: ok seems to work, thanks
Nov 28 01:09:44 <Leeds> ah, you'd just assumed you needed to restart? ;-)
Nov 28 01:10:24 <dob1> Leeds: sorry i am a beginner, if every time i have to restart emulator it was very difficult to test :)
Nov 28 01:12:10 <Leeds> no problem
Nov 28 01:56:39 <giglife> hello
Nov 28 01:56:50 <giglife> just got a G1 :P
Nov 28 01:58:49 <giglife> got it for my gf she has tmobile : i did all the steps and i flashed it with update_TC4-RC30_full_xda-dev_v1.2 so thats the newest tmobile stock firmware all cracked out right
Nov 28 02:04:07 <JesusFreke> giglife: yep :)
Nov 28 02:06:27 <giglife> thank
Nov 28 02:06:29 <giglife> you
Nov 28 02:06:36 <JesusFreke> your
Nov 28 02:06:38 <JesusFreke> welcome
Nov 28 02:06:49 <JesusFreke> :D
Nov 28 02:06:59 <giglife> good :) now tiime hurry up with the apps people LOL
Nov 28 02:07:34 <giglife> here is a tip
Nov 28 02:07:48 <giglife> i was getting this bs SD card error before
Nov 28 02:07:59 <giglife> telling me it could not find update.zip
Nov 28 02:08:08 <giglife> i renamed it UPDATE.zip
Nov 28 02:08:15 <giglife> and it worked
Nov 28 02:08:36 <JesusFreke> do you have "show file associations" turned off in windows?
Nov 28 02:08:45 <giglife> its not even that
Nov 28 02:08:46 <JesusFreke> err, not associations
Nov 28 02:08:49 <JesusFreke> extensions
Nov 28 02:08:54 <giglife> i checked the file
Nov 28 02:09:01 <giglife> it was named correct
Nov 28 02:09:18 <giglife> it was giving me E blah blah cant find update.zip
Nov 28 02:09:22 <JesusFreke> k. just making sure :). If you have file associations turned off, and rename it to update.zip, it's actually named update.zip.zip
Nov 28 02:09:23 <giglife> i was going crazy
Nov 28 02:09:23 <JesusFreke> lol
Nov 28 02:09:33 <giglife> i renamed it UPDATE.zip
Nov 28 02:09:37 <giglife> bam
Nov 28 02:09:52 <JesusFreke> I'm almost positive it was some other factor
Nov 28 02:10:10 <JesusFreke> because it doesn't (shouldn't?) matter whether it's UPDATE.zip or update.zip
Nov 28 02:10:36 <giglife> yea thats what i thought to but i did read that before some where on a diffrent device
Nov 28 02:10:55 <giglife> that upercase worked and i tried it because i thought of it
Nov 28 02:11:22 <elad> have any of you sold anything on ebay recently?
Nov 28 02:11:39 <JesusFreke> I guess as long as it works, huh? :)
Nov 28 02:11:40 <giglife> not in the last 3 months atleast
Nov 28 02:11:47 <giglife> yea it worked fine
Nov 28 02:11:48 <JesusFreke> yeah, not too recently. why?
Nov 28 02:11:57 <giglife> just wanted to let people know
Nov 28 02:12:06 <giglife> because i was reading some others had that problem
Nov 28 02:12:11 <elad> Jesus, is it normal now for paypal to hold the funds from the seller till the buyer gets the package?
Nov 28 02:12:31 <giglife> and they tried like 1gb and then a 8gb and the 8gb worked with update.zip but no 1gb they had would work
Nov 28 02:13:05 <JesusFreke> elad: not that I know of.. but that doesn't mean much :)
Nov 28 02:13:26 <elad> I haven't sold anything for awhile, and the funds are on hold in paypal.. they say it could take up to 21 days, or until the buyer gets the item
Nov 28 02:13:36 <giglife> so when i came in to that problem i just was like UPDATE.zip and bam because i dont have a 8GB laying around
Nov 28 02:14:58 <giglife> is this also unlocked can i throw my att sim in this when my gf is not using it. and i give here the 3g iphone when it gets working for tmobile :P we can swap
Nov 28 02:15:07 <JesusFreke> it might be some weird file system issue or something. *shrug*
Nov 28 02:15:31 <JesusFreke> you should be able to use the ATT sim, but no 3G
Nov 28 02:16:04 <JesusFreke> they use different frequencies than tmobile for 3G
Nov 28 02:16:28 <JesusFreke> I don't really know all the details though.. I'm not knowledgable about that part of it
Nov 28 02:17:48 <giglife> are there any bugs in this firmware
Nov 28 02:18:02 <giglife> when does tmobile come out with r30
Nov 28 02:18:50 <JesusFreke> RC30 is out..
Nov 28 02:19:06 <giglife> ahh this phone is lucky
Nov 28 02:19:12 <giglife> it was at r29 :P
Nov 28 02:19:28 <JesusFreke> yeah. there are still 19,28 and 29s out there I think
Nov 28 02:26:35 <mib_hinypk> got an iddiot question for you
Nov 28 02:27:00 <mib_hinypk> how do i copy a file from sdcard to phone memory
Nov 28 02:27:11 <mib_hinypk> i have a hacked rc30
Nov 28 02:27:24 <mib_hinypk> and terminal emulator
Nov 28 02:27:29 <JesusFreke> cat /sdcard/file > /wherever/you/want/the/file/to/go
Nov 28 02:27:35 <JesusFreke> or
Nov 28 02:27:46 <mib_hinypk> cat wtf
Nov 28 02:27:50 <JesusFreke> busybox cp /sdcard/file /wherever/you/want/the/file/to/go
Nov 28 02:28:00 <mib_hinypk> where is cp when i need it
Nov 28 02:28:00 <JesusFreke> yeah, it doesn't come with a cp command by default
Nov 28 02:28:02 <JesusFreke> lol
Nov 28 02:28:11 <JesusFreke> but busybox has tp
Nov 28 02:28:12 <JesusFreke> cp
Nov 28 02:28:21 <mib_hinypk> ah
Nov 28 02:28:23 <mib_hinypk> ok
Nov 28 02:28:25 <mib_hinypk> thx
Nov 28 02:28:30 <JesusFreke> speaking of which..
Nov 28 02:28:42 <JesusFreke> I should create a cp link to busybox in the next version
Nov 28 02:29:17 <giglife> would be nice
Nov 28 02:29:27 <giglife> great job with this :P
Nov 28 02:29:32 <fariseo> allright, andorid in the new christina aguilera video :)
Nov 28 02:29:49 <JesusFreke> *sigh*
Nov 28 02:30:01 <JesusFreke> the android name has been soiled
Nov 28 02:30:11 <JesusFreke> it will never been the same again
Nov 28 02:35:54 <giglife> sweet thanks again for the moding :P iphone and g1 all in the same week i'm so special so special so special
Nov 28 02:36:22 <fariseo> what iphone moding?
Nov 28 02:37:09 <giglife> i just got a g3 iphone aswell this week
Nov 28 02:37:37 <giglife> i flashed it with 2.2 with baseband 2.11.07 for maybe latter unlocking
Nov 28 02:37:43 <JesusFreke> they skipped g2 and merged it with iphone? :D
Nov 28 02:37:46 <giglife> cracked ipa :P
Nov 28 02:38:00 <giglife> i got it for $150
Nov 28 02:38:06 <giglife> i got the G1 for $179
Nov 28 02:38:39 <unix_infidel> giglife: at wal-mart?
Nov 28 02:38:54 <giglife> 3g iphone bought off some one $150 cash
Nov 28 02:39:12 <unix_infidel> ah.
Nov 28 02:39:14 <giglife> g1 was added as a 2nd line to a phone as a family plan for $179 plus the tax
Nov 28 02:39:57 <giglife> all it was was $35 for a new line act so cheaper then buying the phone for $400
Nov 28 02:41:01 <Disconnect> JesusFreke: got those bins integrated to the new image? i'm too lazy to do my own :) but i'll happily offer startup script patches and such once i have them figured
Nov 28 02:41:33 <giglife> white g1 :P
Nov 28 02:42:52 <JesusFreke> nah, not yet. I may do a partial release that contains the binaries and module, along with stripping everything in xbin to free up some space
Nov 28 02:43:28 <JesusFreke> it would be nice to get it more automated before included in a new version
Nov 28 02:44:09 <Disconnect> fair enough
Nov 28 02:49:01 <Disconnect> i'll get right on that then :)
Nov 28 02:50:02 <JesusFreke> yeah! get to work!
Nov 28 02:50:05 * JesusFreke cracks whip
Nov 28 02:50:08 <JesusFreke> :D
Nov 28 02:51:12 <Disconnect> oooooh if you want to play instead... :P
Nov 28 02:51:46 <JesusFreke> :p
Nov 28 02:52:08 * sparkle laughs
Nov 28 02:52:11 <sparkle> heyhey jf
Nov 28 02:59:21 <JesusFreke> hey sparkle
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 28 02:59:57 2008