**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 29 02:59:57 2008
Nov 29 03:03:18 <SystemWizard> KNY: interesting.. never thought about it..  but I guess since I've seen a spinner it a listview it must be possible.. :)
Nov 29 03:45:02 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 29 03:47:57 <obra> w/in 35
Nov 29 05:36:18 <meyou-> so when i hook my g1 up to my pc via usb, it shows up as a removable device with no disk inserted. how do i fix this?
Nov 29 05:37:30 <Leeds> you insert a disk?
Nov 29 05:37:38 <Leeds> or rather, an SD card
Nov 29 05:37:52 <Damm> meyou-, open the notification and tell it to mount
Nov 29 05:37:53 <Leeds> or really rather, a microSD or microSDHC card :-)
Nov 29 05:38:00 <Damm> dur
Nov 29 05:38:42 <Leeds> I'm not sure it shows at all unless you reply to the notification, does it?
Nov 29 05:39:04 <meyou-> aww snap
Nov 29 05:39:09 <meyou-> thanks
Nov 29 05:39:21 <Leeds> oops, sorry, it does...
Nov 29 05:39:40 <meyou-> pretty cool
Nov 29 06:10:12 <marix_g1> sup guys
Nov 29 06:13:54 <marix_g1> busy night eh
Nov 29 06:14:46 <JesusFreke> quite :)
Nov 29 06:17:32 <teratoma> is there an irc client for phone running android ?
Nov 29 06:20:44 <SystemWizard> nothing official yet teratoma
Nov 29 06:20:50 <SystemWizard> lots under construction
Nov 29 06:23:30 <sparkle> nods
Nov 29 06:23:49 <sparkle> if you've got root and some time, irssi works great :)
Nov 29 06:27:11 <teratoma> how do i get to root prompt ?
Nov 29 06:27:19 <teratoma> can i ssh from root prompt ?
Nov 29 06:27:22 <wub_> hmm.. what is app_thumbnails in the browser data folder? it's getting some huge files in it.
Nov 29 06:27:43 <wub_> google gives little in the way of answeers
Nov 29 06:28:06 <teratoma> you really got irssi running natively on your g1 ?
Nov 29 06:28:10 <Surye> Is there anyway in the current API to access the SMS/MMS storage?
Nov 29 06:28:31 <Gary|tp> IIRC no
Nov 29 06:29:05 <wub_> tet: there is an ssh client in the market called connectbot
Nov 29 06:29:33 <wub_> it's very good. i'm actually using it to get here :)
Nov 29 06:30:06 <teratoma> yeah ive gone that.  i misunderstood you.  irssi natively on g1 would be weird.
Nov 29 06:30:53 <armooo> Surye: http://pastebin.com/m2e7559d1
Nov 29 06:31:10 <wub_> anyone know about this app_thumbnails dir?
Nov 29 06:32:11 <unix_infidel> teratoma: it'd be impracticle first and foremost unless you were on wireless.
Nov 29 06:32:53 <teratoma> i assume if you wanted to use irc you would be connected to internet
Nov 29 06:33:16 <Disconnect> teratoma: i think he's saying that using the radio drains the battery down fast
Nov 29 06:33:45 <teratoma> how do you turn off wirelss ?
Nov 29 06:33:53 <Surye> armooo: Hmm... interesting
Nov 29 06:33:58 <Surye> armooo: Thanks
Nov 29 06:36:11 <Surye> armooo: Does it treat MMS's different in this context?
Nov 29 06:39:29 <armooo> Surye: good question, but i did not have any mms's when I was exported mine so i am not sure.
Nov 29 06:39:48 <Surye> I'll give it a go then when I get on my dev machine :)
Nov 29 06:40:49 <Surye> My ultimate goal is to get to the pictures in the MMS
Nov 29 06:42:38 <romainguy__> wub_: hmm.. what is app_thumbnails in the browser data folder? it's getting some huge files in it. << it's a bug we fixed, sorry for that
Nov 29 06:42:59 <Disconnect> romainguy_: does that go along with the browser cache dir bug?
Nov 29 06:43:08 <romainguy__> what cache dir bug?
Nov 29 06:43:30 <Disconnect> browser puts cache files and stale window thumbs in the /data/ partition
Nov 29 06:44:48 <romainguy__> yeah that's part of it
Nov 29 06:51:07 <Disconnect> didn't originally see that app_thumb was in the browser dir. so, speaking of stale window thumbs.. :)
Nov 29 06:51:22 <Disconnect> anyway. 2am. crashy time. cya all!
Nov 29 07:05:47 <wub_> romainguy_: what version is it fixed in?
Nov 29 07:07:40 <romainguy__> it hasn't been released yet
Nov 29 07:08:14 <wub_> ah k
Nov 29 07:08:48 <wub_> does it move the entire browser cache elsewhere too? off internal memory?
Nov 29 07:08:57 <romainguy__> er no
Nov 29 07:10:02 <d0netsFN> do we have any progress on apps from sd?
Nov 29 07:10:02 <wub_> ok, but files in app thumbs wont accumulate forever?
Nov 29 07:10:14 <romainguy__> d0netsFN: no
Nov 29 07:10:23 <romainguy__> be patient the phone has been out for just a month
Nov 29 07:10:54 <d0netsFN> but thats a necessity
Nov 29 07:10:59 <wub_> indeed :)
Nov 29 07:12:09 <romainguy__> d0netsFN: that doesn't make it easier to do
Nov 29 07:12:52 <d0netsFN> it should put it at the top of the list though
Nov 29 07:13:12 <d0netsFN> they sure make haste to keep us from having root
Nov 29 07:13:22 <romainguy__> that's very different
Nov 29 07:13:27 <romainguy__> it was a huge security issue
Nov 29 07:13:33 <d0netsFN> true
Nov 29 07:13:33 <wub_> is the primary issue that the sdcard is formatted as fat32 and not something that supports unix permissions
Nov 29 07:14:00 <romainguy__> wub_: that's one issue
Nov 29 07:14:06 <romainguy__> (and not using FAT32 is not an option :)
Nov 29 07:14:37 <d0netsFN> you cant have an ext3 partition on sd?
Nov 29 07:14:40 <romainguy__> you're welcome to join the discussions about this on the mailing list
Nov 29 07:15:00 <romainguy__> d0netsFN: that would require the sd card to be formatted by the phone only
Nov 29 07:15:04 <romainguy__> or to be reformatted
Nov 29 07:15:08 <d0netsFN> right
Nov 29 07:15:13 <romainguy__> which can cause no end of trouble to preserve data
Nov 29 07:15:17 <d0netsFN> m-parted?
Nov 29 07:15:20 <wub_> understood... i'm sure tons of people are bugging in this chan about it
Nov 29 07:15:22 <d0netsFN> (mobile g parted)
Nov 29 07:15:32 <romainguy__> anyway, go read the discussions on the mailing list :)
Nov 29 07:15:51 <romainguy__> wub_: yeah, and they all make the same mistake and think it's easy
Nov 29 07:16:01 <romainguy__> another issue is graceful degradation
Nov 29 07:16:08 <wub_> no, i understand
Nov 29 07:16:24 <romainguy__> I didn't meaning the same mistake that you do :)
Nov 29 07:16:30 <romainguy__> -ing
Nov 29 07:16:42 <wub_> :)
Nov 29 07:16:43 <romainguy__> then there are the fun issues
Nov 29 07:16:52 <romainguy__> like what happens if you want to mount the SD while apps are running from it
Nov 29 07:16:59 <wub_> yeah
Nov 29 07:16:59 <romainguy__> or what happens if you eject the sd from the phone
Nov 29 07:17:01 <romainguy__> and so on
Nov 29 07:17:07 <romainguy__> I'm glad I'm not working on it :)
Nov 29 07:17:20 <wub_> heh
Nov 29 07:19:02 <Damm> heh
Nov 29 07:19:05 <wub_> thanks for the info on app thumbs... trying to preserve my precious internal memory while i can
Nov 29 07:19:09 <Damm> they have people running the browser cache from it.
Nov 29 07:19:34 <Damm> romainguy__, hrm, didn't think the phone could handle ext2/3?
Nov 29 07:19:39 <romainguy__> it can't
Nov 29 07:19:42 <romainguy__> I never said it can
Nov 29 07:19:55 <romainguy__> afaik it handles yaffs and fat32
Nov 29 07:20:05 <Damm> right
Nov 29 07:20:09 <Damm> and yaffs2/yaffs is an image
Nov 29 07:20:16 <Damm> not exactly a filesystem from the utility's i've seen.
Nov 29 07:20:36 <Damm> well it is
Nov 29 07:20:45 <Damm> but not something I can convert the sd card into easily
Nov 29 07:21:04 <Damm> you create the yaffs image with the files you want, and it creates a 'file' that is the filesystem.
Nov 29 07:25:52 <joeyjones> yay, i got the internet working stabely
Nov 29 07:26:44 <joeyjones> now i just need flash player for android
Nov 29 07:31:14 <unix_infidel> joeyjones: internet should be stable out of the box ;-P
Nov 29 07:31:46 <joeyjones> unix_infidel: it's a port of android on an htc touch/vogue
Nov 29 07:34:45 <Damm> heh
Nov 29 07:34:55 <Damm> isn't the vogue missing a few buttons?
Nov 29 07:35:03 <Damm> compared to the dream
Nov 29 07:36:18 <joeyjones> yeah
Nov 29 07:36:45 <joeyjones> it's quite a useable port though
Nov 29 07:36:59 <unix_infidel> yea i'm actively looking forward to seeing how cross device android support will be handled in the SDK, if at all.
Nov 29 07:37:05 <joeyjones> the virtual keyboard needs a lot of work though :p
Nov 29 07:37:18 <romainguy__> unix_infidel: we want to support that
Nov 29 07:37:56 <romainguy__> note that you can already change important things like the resolution
Nov 29 07:38:02 <romainguy__> but more needs to be done :))
Nov 29 07:38:06 <joeyjones> well...
Nov 29 07:38:20 <joeyjones> the port for the vogue doesn;t have the resolution right
Nov 29 07:38:31 <joeyjones> atleast on my handset
Nov 29 07:38:46 * sparkle yawns
Nov 29 07:38:52 <sparkle> ext2 works fine on the sdcard
Nov 29 07:38:57 <sparkle> provided you've got support in the kernel or a module
Nov 29 07:38:59 <unix_infidel> romainguy__: yea we were talking about this at AndroidDevCamp.
Nov 29 07:39:38 <unix_infidel> positing that, if developers have to go back to their codebase 8 months from now when a killer device is released that has a input model a little different from the G1 it'll drive a bunch of people cray
Nov 29 07:39:39 <sparkle> but i still have a fat32 partition on there as well
Nov 29 07:39:53 <joeyjones> it seems like the SMS messaging and email apps aren't working properly, but otherwise it;s amazing
Nov 29 07:42:03 <romainguy__> unix_infidel: they probably will have to anyway when devices with higher resolutions, lower resolutions, higher densities, lower densities, etc. come out
Nov 29 07:42:08 <romainguy__> not necessarily big changes
Nov 29 07:42:23 <romainguy__> and apps should still work
Nov 29 07:42:29 <romainguy__> but if you want your app to be perfect... :))
Nov 29 07:43:29 <unix_infidel> romainguy__: right, which makes me think it'll be *at least* 9 months before we see the next Android phone.
Nov 29 07:43:49 <romainguy__> er how do you come up with that number?
Nov 29 07:44:00 <unix_infidel> my magic hat.
Nov 29 07:44:14 <romainguy__> that's a useful answer...
Nov 29 07:44:38 <unix_infidel> it's a guess, it's all conjecture.  only you guys know the real answers ;-)
Nov 29 07:45:03 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 29 07:45:03 <romainguy__> after all the guesses here over the past year, I though you guys knew better by now :))
Nov 29 07:45:24 <romainguy__> ok that script is getting annoying
Nov 29 07:47:38 <unix_infidel> for instance, not having a back button on the next device would REALLY suck.
Nov 29 07:47:58 <romainguy__> that's pretty much part of what an Android device needs to have
Nov 29 07:48:06 <romainguy__> and if it's not a hard button, it must be at least a soft button
Nov 29 07:48:22 <unix_infidel> romainguy__: knew better in terms of what you guys know and dont know or better at guessing ;-)
Nov 29 07:48:23 <romainguy__> but I wouldn't expect any android device to come out without back, home and menu
Nov 29 07:48:41 <Damm> sparkle, yeah now that i'm thinking back I prolly shoulda kept root on my G1
Nov 29 07:48:50 <Damm> but ... it's not my phone it's my companies
Nov 29 07:48:52 * sparkle nods
Nov 29 07:49:03 <Damm> didn't wanna root it, and then hear about it.
Nov 29 07:50:01 <romainguy__> aaaaaaaaaaaaah! another discussion about root!
Nov 29 07:50:05 * romainguy__ runs away and hide
Nov 29 07:50:06 * sparkle chuckles
Nov 29 07:50:13 <wub_> lol
Nov 29 07:50:28 <Damm> romainguy__, can you help me get root?
Nov 29 07:50:35 <Damm> ... you know the root path?
Nov 29 07:50:37 <Damm> j/k
Nov 29 07:50:48 <romainguy__> I can show you how to draw "root" with pretty effects ^^
Nov 29 07:51:27 <Damm> meh, i just want bt pan
Nov 29 07:51:33 <sparkle> he could, but then he would have to kill you.
Nov 29 07:51:42 <Damm> actually he couldn't
Nov 29 07:51:49 <Damm> google's style is just as cramped
Nov 29 07:52:09 <Damm> the Big T has the big G by the ballsack.
Nov 29 07:52:36 <romainguy__> lol
Nov 29 07:53:47 <Damm> we'll see how AT&T works with Google and Sprint and such
Nov 29 07:53:53 <Damm> I imagine it'll be quite similar.
Nov 29 07:58:56 <dream_kill> romainguy .. why the camera and IM compiled from source code not working on the device
Nov 29 07:58:58 <dream_kill> ?
Nov 29 07:59:13 <romainguy__> IM because it doesn't come with any of the plugins
Nov 29 07:59:16 <romainguy__> camera, no idea
Nov 29 07:59:20 <dream_kill> (they run but camera doesn't get ANY images from the real hardware)
Nov 29 07:59:22 <romainguy__> missing drivers?
Nov 29 07:59:46 <dream_kill> using the real kernel from the device
Nov 29 07:59:53 <dream_kill> so..should have all drivers!
Nov 29 08:00:04 <romainguy__> except if the drivers are not built into the kernel?
Nov 29 08:00:09 <romainguy__> anyway, I have no idea
Nov 29 08:01:28 <dream_kill> k
Nov 29 08:06:46 <wub_> is there somewhere thst i can see what features are being added and bugs have been fixed so that i can not bug this channel with such questions?
Nov 29 08:07:19 <wub_> i have a feature request and a bug but i cannot imagine i'm the only one
Nov 29 08:07:36 <romainguy__> no, we're still working on moving to an external bug tracker
Nov 29 08:07:49 <romainguy__> and we'll soon move all development to the git repository
Nov 29 08:07:55 <romainguy__> so file away
Nov 29 08:08:03 <romainguy__> we'll close your bugs if they've been fixed already
Nov 29 08:08:24 <wub_> k :)
Nov 29 08:08:30 <romainguy__> what are they?
Nov 29 08:09:18 <wub_> feature request: ability to turn off cell radio only, leaving wifi, gps on
Nov 29 08:09:24 <joeyjones> i really wish that google and htc would release an un-branded phone
Nov 29 08:09:45 <aramirez> Excuse me, is there someone here who speak spanish?
Nov 29 08:09:56 <joeyjones> aramirez: doubt it :p
Nov 29 08:10:15 <aramirez> :s
Nov 29 08:10:17 <romainguy__> wub_: interesting, I don't know if that's possible (not technically, but legally, regarding the obligation to let the user place emergency calls - and yes i know about the airplane mode :)
Nov 29 08:10:30 <wub_> in my office at work, i get a very poor signal and i'm guessing that the phone spends a lot of time searching for the network and wasting my battery
Nov 29 08:10:36 <romainguy__> yep :(
Nov 29 08:10:52 <wub_>  i seem to get much better battery life on the weekend
Nov 29 08:11:55 <joeyjones> romainguy__: it looks like windows mobile allow it, so...
Nov 29 08:12:13 <wub_> so why couldnt emergency calls turn the cell radio back on?
Nov 29 08:12:20 <romainguy__> joeyjones: like I said, I don't know :)
Nov 29 08:12:51 <wub_> the bug is ... you know how opening the menu and typing letters will match apps?
Nov 29 08:13:00 <romainguy__> you mean on Home?
Nov 29 08:13:22 <wub_> well, yes, but with the menu slid open
Nov 29 08:13:27 <romainguy__> yes I see
Nov 29 08:13:35 <romainguy__> so what's the bug?
Nov 29 08:13:40 <wub_> typing on home opens contacts and starts matching
Nov 29 08:13:47 <romainguy__> yes
Nov 29 08:14:25 <wub_> so if you have a folder open on top of the home screen and then slide the menu open to find an app to add to the folder...
Nov 29 08:14:34 <romainguy__> yes?
Nov 29 08:14:48 <wub_>  typing into the menu opens contacts instead of matching apps
Nov 29 08:15:11 <wub_> i'm typing all of this on a g1, hence the slowness ;)
Nov 29 08:15:13 <romainguy__> hmm no
Nov 29 08:15:31 <romainguy__> if I have a folder open and the slider opened and type, it works just fine
Nov 29 08:15:37 <romainguy__> note that the focus has to be in the list of apps
Nov 29 08:15:54 <wub_> let me try again real quick
Nov 29 08:16:55 <wub_> could it be something that was fixed in rc30?
Nov 29 08:17:26 <wub_> i got a replacement g1 tthis week and havent received the ota update yet
Nov 29 08:17:31 <romainguy__> I doubt it
Nov 29 08:17:32 <wub_> still on rc29
Nov 29 08:17:34 <romainguy__> I wrote Home
Nov 29 08:17:41 <romainguy__> and I didn't fix such a thing in rc30
Nov 29 08:17:48 <wub_> it's still doing it
Nov 29 08:17:52 <romainguy__> but like I said, the focus has to be inside the list of all apps
Nov 29 08:18:14 <wub_> i dont see how the focus could be on anything else
Nov 29 08:18:29 <romainguy__> it can be on the drawer's tab
Nov 29 08:18:51 <romainguy__> it also works if the focus is nowhere
Nov 29 08:19:28 <wub_> ...why would i want to open contacts if the focus is on the drawer's tab and the drawer is open? ;)
Nov 29 08:19:42 <d0netsFN> hey which activity is it again in anycut for gps?
Nov 29 08:19:59 <wub_> can i force the focus to be in the window by scrollong it a bit?
Nov 29 08:20:13 <romainguy__> wub_: just go right with the trackball?
Nov 29 08:20:14 <wub_> d03boy: unlock pattern
Nov 29 08:20:18 <romainguy__> or open the drawer with the touch screen
Nov 29 08:20:27 <wub_> i did that
Nov 29 08:20:45 <wub_> here is precisely what i am doing
Nov 29 08:21:32 <wub_> keyboard is open, tap on folder to open it, tap on drawer to slide it open, type....
Nov 29 08:21:52 <romainguy__> and it works ^^
Nov 29 08:22:28 <wub_> oohhhh no! it looks like the focus is staying on the folder
Nov 29 08:22:45 <wub_> i can see the icon highlighted orange under the drawer
Nov 29 08:22:57 <wub_> want me to send you a picture?
Nov 29 08:23:09 <romainguy__> probably got fixed then
Nov 29 08:23:14 <joeyjones> so apparently the htc touch pro doesn;t have gps, but the htc touch/vogue does
Nov 29 08:23:14 <romainguy__> because I can't reproduce
Nov 29 08:23:22 <romainguy__> at least on post rc30
Nov 29 08:23:34 <wub_> i can move the trackball around and see it scroll around the folder
Nov 29 08:23:47 <wub_> lemme yry something
Nov 29 08:23:51 <wub_> oops
Nov 29 08:24:09 <wub_> i still have my old device that has rc30
Nov 29 08:24:31 <wub_> i realize it may have been fixed after
Nov 29 08:28:01 <wub_> still doing it in rc30 so hopefully it got fixed later then
Nov 29 08:29:23 <romainguy__> apparently it did
Nov 29 08:29:27 <romainguy__> since I cannot reproduce it
Nov 29 08:29:34 <wub_> thanks for listening to all of that romain... :)
Nov 29 08:29:38 <romainguy__> np
Nov 29 08:30:13 <romainguy__> I'll try to filter the list of apps when the focus is on the drawer tab
Nov 29 08:30:22 <romainguy__> the problem will be to do it in a non-disgusting way
Nov 29 08:30:23 <romainguy__> :)
Nov 29 08:31:02 <wub_> is it possible to file the cell radio one as a feature request? at least someone could look into it re: the legal issue you mentioned
Nov 29 08:31:23 <romainguy__> sure
Nov 29 08:31:29 <romainguy__> you can file any feature request you want
Nov 29 08:31:34 <romainguy__> it just doesn't mean it's gonna happen :))
Nov 29 08:31:38 <wub_> i cant be the only one that spends 8+ hours in a place with crappy reception
Nov 29 08:31:43 <wub_> i understand
Nov 29 08:32:15 <romainguy__> (some people think that filing a bug/request means it will be accepted, I'm just disclosing :)
Nov 29 08:32:47 * JesusFreke wants to make toast with android. please make it happen
Nov 29 08:32:59 <romainguy__> Toast.makeText()? :)
Nov 29 08:33:04 <wub_> nope, i know how development works.. ;)
Nov 29 08:40:10 <wub_> ok where the heck do i request a feature? google search is coming up with all kinds of archives and other stuff.
Nov 29 08:41:10 <romainguy__> code.google.com/p/android/issues
Nov 29 08:41:26 <wub_> thanks!
Nov 29 08:41:28 <xsdg> or, easier to remember, b.android.com
Nov 29 08:42:18 <tmzt> joeyjones: raph doesn't have gps?
Nov 29 08:56:57 <joeyjones> tmzt: i think it has one, but it refuses to connect
Nov 29 08:57:04 <joeyjones> since it atleast shows up
Nov 29 08:57:24 <tmzt> joeyjones: what carrier/amss version is it? that would determine whether it works
Nov 29 08:57:40 <joeyjones> it's telus mobility, no idea about the amss
Nov 29 08:57:51 <tmzt> oh, they might disable it then
Nov 29 08:58:22 <joeyjones> they include a custom/branded gps application
Nov 29 08:58:23 <tmzt> normally you should be able to cat /dev/smd7 and get nmea, maybe after setting something with proc_comm (in the kernel)
Nov 29 08:58:48 <tmzt> then they probably use the qualcomm agps over ip
Nov 29 08:59:19 <tmzt> there might be information on xda-developers.com
Nov 29 08:59:23 <joeyjones> yeah
Nov 29 08:59:29 <joeyjones> i plan to read up on it later
Nov 29 08:59:49 <joeyjones> my htc touch/vogue wasn;t supposed to have gps but i did a ROM update and now it works
Nov 29 09:00:00 <tmzt> also telus?
Nov 29 09:00:10 <joeyjones> i wonder if it might not be enabled in the ROM
Nov 29 09:00:15 <joeyjones> naw, bell mobility
Nov 29 09:00:57 <tmzt> you build a kernel or use dzo?
Nov 29 09:01:05 <tmzt> so, android 0.8?
Nov 29 09:01:15 <joeyjones> if he wasn't such a failure at technology i;d tell him to flash a new ROM
Nov 29 09:01:37 <joeyjones> i flashed the new bell wm rom and run the dzo android off of it
Nov 29 09:02:23 <tmzt> I'm trying to find out if disabling fbcon is enough to make 1.0 work, there is a check for it in the code
Nov 29 09:02:42 <tmzt> that requires building a kernel though
Nov 29 09:03:00 <joeyjones> i really like the port though
Nov 29 09:03:13 <joeyjones> but i keep noticing quirks as i go
Nov 29 09:03:17 <tmzt> we had everything working mounting yaffs2 but after exec'ing init (android init) it just failed
Nov 29 09:04:11 <joeyjones> i actually flashed the ROM because android complained about me using an old radio
Nov 29 09:05:17 <joeyjones> tmzt: i'm following rumors of the htc touch hd getting an android release
Nov 29 09:05:48 <tmzt> I wonder if zune7 is even coming after reading some reports from pdc
Nov 29 09:06:08 <tmzt> touchflo can only go so far
Nov 29 09:06:24 <joeyjones> zune7?
Nov 29 09:06:32 <tmzt> wm7 with zune player
Nov 29 09:06:44 <joeyjones> lol
Nov 29 09:06:59 <tmzt> still a ce5.5 kernel I think
Nov 29 09:07:24 <tmzt> which is good news if you want to run android, because you can launch linux with haret
Nov 29 09:08:02 <joeyjones> i expect that if done properly android will surpass wm and the iphone within a year
Nov 29 09:08:38 <gambler> thx walt mossberg
Nov 29 09:08:52 <gambler> joeyjones, you running android on the Touch? - how is that
Nov 29 09:08:59 <tmzt> it has a similar java architechure to blackberry it looks like, with the intents being like palm cmds and stacks like bb api
Nov 29 09:09:03 <joeyjones> tmzt: apparently my human computer interaction teacher wants me to demo android in class one day
Nov 29 09:09:07 <joeyjones> gambler: very well
Nov 29 09:09:37 <gambler> joeyjones, what are the nonworking bits? I hear you cant answer calls yet on the openmoko
Nov 29 09:09:47 <tmzt> ril
Nov 29 09:09:48 <joeyjones> i can answer and place calls
Nov 29 09:09:51 <joeyjones> send and receive sms
Nov 29 09:09:56 <joeyjones> internet works
Nov 29 09:09:56 <tmzt> openmoko needs a mux driver
Nov 29 09:09:57 <gambler> nonworking
Nov 29 09:10:05 <joeyjones> email app doesn;t seem to work
Nov 29 09:10:16 <joeyjones> cmera should be sort of working now
Nov 29 09:10:19 <joeyjones> *camera
Nov 29 09:10:32 <tmzt> on vogue?
Nov 29 09:10:39 <joeyjones> the resolution if fucked for a lot of things
Nov 29 09:10:43 <joeyjones> tmzt: yeah
Nov 29 09:12:15 <tmzt> do you know if dzo is android 0.8 or 1.0? I don't know where to find that
Nov 29 09:12:39 <gambler> joeyjones, whats the boot time like?
Nov 29 09:12:56 <joeyjones> gambler: < 30 seconds
Nov 29 09:13:07 <joeyjones> tmzt: if this might help: "Update(24/9/08): Updated to the newest SDK (1.0), Audio should work well now. SMS Works using the Google app. "
Nov 29 09:13:29 <tmzt> so he's still using emulator builds released by google?
Nov 29 09:13:46 <joeyjones> i'm not really sure what he's using
Nov 29 09:14:16 <tmzt> there's some work on getting trout (g1) builds on I think vogue, but at least raphael (Touch Pro)
Nov 29 09:14:28 <tmzt> which should allow the g1 builds to work
Nov 29 09:14:56 <joeyjones> i hate though how in his port there's no way to swap between programs or easily eit apps
Nov 29 09:15:16 <tmzt> on which?
Nov 29 09:15:22 <joeyjones> the back button usually exits, but it can be a bitch to exit the browser
Nov 29 09:15:39 <tmzt> there must be some way to map the other buttons, red/green? dpad?
Nov 29 09:15:45 <tmzt> then camera
Nov 29 09:15:45 <joeyjones> do
Nov 29 09:16:10 <joeyjones> i think it's mapped in the kernel or a shell script somewhere
Nov 29 09:16:35 <tmzt> the windows amss's don't have qmi, which I think is the big thing g1 android expects
Nov 29 09:16:50 <joeyjones> qmi?
Nov 29 09:17:01 <tmzt> there's not much abstraction in base.git for these things
Nov 29 09:17:23 <tmzt> qmi being the interface to bring up/shutdown the internet connection on the phone/modem
Nov 29 09:17:34 <tmzt> dzo and other ports use ppp instead
Nov 29 09:17:45 <tmzt> and just bring it up before starting android
Nov 29 09:18:32 <joeyjones> so qmi enables/disables the connection as it's needed by apps?
Nov 29 09:18:38 <tmzt> yes
Nov 29 09:18:49 <joeyjones> sounds like a battery saver :p
Nov 29 09:18:54 <tmzt> I think some apps won't start without detecting network some way, but I don't know how
Nov 29 09:18:57 <fnord_> hmmm anyone here familiar with iptables?
Nov 29 09:20:21 <joeyjones> tmzt: i'm starting to get sick of dealing with starting ppp every time i boot into android
Nov 29 09:20:28 <tmzt> fnord_: you can ask a question, so someone can try to answer it
Nov 29 09:20:36 <fnord_> tmzt, :P
Nov 29 09:21:15 <tmzt> fnord_: sorry, I can bring up nat but I don't know all the firewall stuff
Nov 29 09:21:22 <fnord_> Okay I know how to redirect --dport --to ip:port on a -gateway/nat- machine, but not for apps running on localhost
Nov 29 09:21:42 <fnord_> As in I want to run a transparent proxy on my phone, for my phone :P
Nov 29 09:21:48 * fnord_ wants privoxy
Nov 29 09:22:26 <tmzt> I think I just read how to do that, but it was an old HOWTO so something might have changed
Nov 29 09:22:37 <joeyjones> tmzt: not likely :p
Nov 29 09:22:42 <tmzt> but you can lookup transparent proxy and iptables
Nov 29 09:22:47 <fnord_> I did
Nov 29 09:22:49 <tmzt> well, I lost those pages anyway
Nov 29 09:22:57 <fnord_> Very helpful on setting it up on a nat box
Nov 29 09:23:12 <fnord_> But not so much for local
Nov 29 09:23:17 <tmzt> but it was network admnistrator guide or one of the ldp howtos
Nov 29 09:23:43 * fnord_ is rather familiar with iptables but is now stumped
Nov 29 09:24:20 <fnord_> Though I suppose I could route all my phone's traffic over an openvpn link and map defaultroute to the other end, but the battery drains quicker when i do that
Nov 29 09:24:30 <joeyjones> any idea why even though i replace all the files in the dzo android .zip (including the data.gz and system.gz files) installed apps and icons added are still there?
Nov 29 09:25:01 <tmzt> PREROUTING --dport -j REDIRECT --to-port
Nov 29 09:25:09 <fnord_> Yeah
Nov 29 09:25:16 <tmzt> didn't work?
Nov 29 09:25:19 <fnord_> Nope.
Nov 29 09:27:03 <fnord_> [0:S2][root@fnord:pts/4]/var/www/html> host yahoo.com
Nov 29 09:27:03 <fnord_> yahoo.com has address 206.190.60.37
Nov 29 09:27:08 <fnord_> [1:S2][root@fnord:pts/4]/var/www/html> host google.com
Nov 29 09:27:08 <fnord_> google.com has address 74.125.45.100
Nov 29 09:27:15 <fnord_> [2:S2][root@fnord:pts/4]/var/www/html> iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -p tcp -d 206.190.60.37 --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to 74.125.45.100:80
Nov 29 09:27:15 <fnord_> [0:S2][root@fnord:pts/4]/var/www/html> wget -qO- 206.190.60.37|grep title
Nov 29 09:27:15 <fnord_> <html><head><title>Yahoo!</title><meta name="ROBOTS" content="NOINDEX" /><style>
Nov 29 09:28:01 <tmzt> something to do with PREROUTING and localhost (loopback) I think
Nov 29 09:28:26 <tmzt> can you try in INPUT or OUTPUT on -t filter?
Nov 29 09:29:02 <fnord_> Tried that too
Nov 29 09:35:12 <tmzt> and mangle?
Nov 29 09:35:28 <fnord_> hrrrrm
Nov 29 09:36:54 <joeyjones> tmzt: it looks like updating broke it :p
Nov 29 09:37:06 <tmzt> the rom?
Nov 29 09:37:21 <joeyjones> dzo android
Nov 29 09:37:28 <tmzt> oh, good, not the rom
Nov 29 09:37:51 * joeyjones <3 haret.exe
Nov 29 09:38:16 <tmzt> right, I thought you meant updating the windows image (nb) or whatever
Nov 29 09:38:20 <tmzt> as in flashing it
Nov 29 09:38:30 <tmzt> haret is good, just pull the battery
Nov 29 09:41:24 <fnord_> I just realized the obvious
Nov 29 09:41:55 <fnord_> forwarding all port 80 to a proxy running locally won't work :P~~ dur
Nov 29 09:41:56 <Leeds> snow is cold and the sky is blue?
Nov 29 09:42:24 <tmzt> http://www.usenet-forums.com/linux-networking/63049-iptables-transparent-proxy-browser-localhost.html
Nov 29 09:42:33 <tmzt> I don't know if this is the complete answer or not
Nov 29 09:42:49 <tmzt> but it is based on squid connecting out from a privledged port
Nov 29 09:43:39 <tmzt> I think the only other way to do it is virtual interfaces or bridging of some kind, and custom ip rule's (policy routing)
Nov 29 09:43:40 * fnord_ peers
Nov 29 09:43:48 <fnord_> Yeah
Nov 29 09:44:16 <fnord_> Speaking of which, anyone know how to make a virtual network to bridge to? :P
Nov 29 09:44:55 <tmzt> about the same way you do openvpn I think, with tuntap
Nov 29 09:45:22 <fnord_> Yeh I use p2p in openvpn.
Nov 29 09:45:37 <tmzt> or, brctl to create bridges, then delete the routing rules between them creating a custom routing table for each
Nov 29 09:45:44 <tmzt> Policy Routing HOWTO
Nov 29 09:46:10 <fnord_> Or the IOS emu
Nov 29 09:46:22 <tmzt> sure, you have one for arm?
Nov 29 09:46:51 <tmzt> I would be happy if I could telnet to routers in packet tracer
Nov 29 09:46:55 <fnord_> I think it's open source. But it's very excessive. I'd probably only try to port it for the sheer insanity of it
Nov 29 09:47:06 <fnord_> packet tracer == ?
Nov 29 09:47:18 <tmzt> they didn't implement that and I don't want to figure out it's protocol
Nov 29 09:47:27 <tmzt> cisco network emulator
Nov 29 09:47:33 <fnord_> Aha
Nov 29 09:48:07 <tmzt> you have a link/name for that?
Nov 29 09:48:29 <fnord_> http://www.ipflow.utc.fr/index.php/Cisco_7200_Simulator#Download
Nov 29 09:48:51 <tmzt> the funny things is these network are very simple and could be defined in a net list, but we use a graphical tool to lay them out
Nov 29 09:48:55 <fnord_> also dynagen
Nov 29 09:49:10 <fnord_> http://dynagen.org/ is the frontend
Nov 29 09:49:57 <tmzt> wow, now I need vserver or namespaces on arm linux so I can have multiple pc's
Nov 29 09:50:09 <fnord_> Real emulator. For example, the faq states:  Can you provide a Cisco IOS image for a 3600 or a 7200 to me ?
Nov 29 09:50:09 <fnord_> No, I am not allowed to distribute any IOS image. You will have to find one by yourself, this should not be a problem if you are a Cisco customer.
Nov 29 09:50:26 <fnord_> qemu?
Nov 29 09:50:43 <tmzt> only 7200 supported?
Nov 29 09:51:02 <tmzt> student, don't think I can get those
Nov 29 09:52:03 <fnord_> That would be hilarious to run dynagen and a couple of virtual machines on the g1
Nov 29 09:55:02 <tmzt> it looks like its using mono cli
Nov 29 09:57:48 <fnord_> mono cli == ?
Nov 29 10:00:26 <tmzt>  .net for linux
Nov 29 10:00:44 <sparkle> hey fnord_
Nov 29 10:00:50 <sparkle> big problem with the g1 is memory size
Nov 29 10:00:54 <sparkle> second big problem is mem bandwidth
Nov 29 10:01:12 <fnord_> sparkle, for network emulation insanity?
Nov 29 10:01:16 <sparkle> if you don't want to ditch the basic dalvik apps you don't have much free mem
Nov 29 10:01:29 <tmzt> qemu support for 2600 or similar should be doable, but I'd rather have something like packettracer
Nov 29 10:01:43 <tmzt> no machine emulation for that I think
Nov 29 10:01:47 <fnord_> Yeah. class 8 sdcard + swap. It would run horribly, but this would only be something I'd do to see if I can do it
Nov 29 10:01:49 <sparkle> i bet the cisco sim would run, but you'd need paging space
Nov 29 10:02:00 <sparkle> have you played with using swap on the g1?
Nov 29 10:02:09 <tmzt> class 8 don't help if the dma is still disabled
Nov 29 10:02:10 <sparkle> set vm.page-cluster to zero for a *major* improvement
Nov 29 10:02:23 <fnord_> Nope not yet
Nov 29 10:02:33 <tmzt> sparkle: where do you do that?
Nov 29 10:02:40 <sparkle> sysctl or through /proc
Nov 29 10:02:58 <spikebike> sparkle dunno
Nov 29 10:02:59 <tmzt> so that makes it page one page (4k) at a time?
Nov 29 10:03:01 <fnord_> I'd really love to rewrite the common apps in C and somehow have them run through the vm
Nov 29 10:03:10 <sparkle> right tmzt
Nov 29 10:03:11 <spikebike> 100MB/sec seems pretty reasonable considering the power of the PCU
Nov 29 10:03:13 <spikebike> CPU
Nov 29 10:03:20 <sparkle> otherwise it will by default page 8 (32k) at a go
Nov 29 10:03:41 <sparkle> echo 0 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness
Nov 29 10:03:41 <sparkle> echo 0 >/proc/sys/vm/page-cluster
Nov 29 10:03:41 <sparkle> swapon -a
Nov 29 10:03:45 <tmzt> arm won't like that
Nov 29 10:03:48 <tmzt> I see
Nov 29 10:03:49 <fnord_> Hell I'd like a native app to run through the vm. Well, not -quite- the vm, but as a normal android app. Some java wrapper maybe?
Nov 29 10:04:05 <tmzt> I use swap on a pxa now, with hdd cf so that might help there too
Nov 29 10:04:05 <sparkle> it's not so much an arm issue as - normally paging a bunch out at once helps with hd access times
Nov 29 10:04:05 <fnord_> Unfortunately every java app seems like a terrible pig
Nov 29 10:04:14 <sparkle> since flash has no access time but is slow, you want to page out individually
Nov 29 10:04:22 <sparkle> fnord_: jni
Nov 29 10:04:28 <fnord_> jni?
Nov 29 10:04:28 <sparkle> you can invoke native methods
Nov 29 10:04:30 <tmzt> well, surfaceflinger is all in c
Nov 29 10:04:42 <sparkle> there's some demo code out there
Nov 29 10:04:47 <fnord_> sparkle, but it doesn't fork out the native code and quit does it?
Nov 29 10:04:54 <tmzt> you just need binder access I think, then add support to servicemanager for .so or bins
Nov 29 10:05:01 <fnord_> I wouldn't want a 10 meg wrapper to run for no reason
Nov 29 10:05:04 <sparkle> no, you invoke native code through entry points and it will hand back control
Nov 29 10:05:16 <fnord_> Hmm
Nov 29 10:05:16 <sparkle> kind of like using rpc
Nov 29 10:05:18 <sparkle> actually
Nov 29 10:05:23 <sparkle> hm
Nov 29 10:05:23 <fnord_> That would be really cool
Nov 29 10:05:31 <fnord_> Really really cool :D
Nov 29 10:05:53 <sparkle> basically you build your routines into a library
Nov 29 10:05:54 <fnord_> jni+xnest :D
Nov 29 10:06:02 * sparkle shrugs
Nov 29 10:06:08 <tmzt> sure, but wouldn't ui still be in java?
Nov 29 10:06:13 <sparkle> honestly i think a vnc client within the jvm would be the way to go
Nov 29 10:06:20 <sparkle> it's simpler than any x server implementation
Nov 29 10:06:30 <sparkle> and the vnc disconnectability is a big plus on android
Nov 29 10:06:36 <sparkle> where your app may go away at any reason
Nov 29 10:06:38 <tmzt> there's already a vnc server for each application, it's just disabled in the source
Nov 29 10:06:41 <sparkle> and need to recover itself when it comes back
Nov 29 10:06:45 <sparkle> tmzt: vnc client
Nov 29 10:06:58 <sparkle> then you just run Xvnc on the g1 itself natively
Nov 29 10:07:04 <sparkle> that already works fine, you can use a vnc client on another box
Nov 29 10:07:08 <fnord_> X seems more responsive over network, but I've not tested vncserver without compression
Nov 29 10:07:42 <tmzt> I would like to see sdl with MSMFB_BLIT support, I think then it could run right on the framebuffer
Nov 29 10:08:00 <tmzt> but surfaceflinger and binder access to gpu looks good too
Nov 29 10:08:34 <tmzt> there's no point doing compression with shared memory I think
Nov 29 10:08:39 <fnord_> And a lightweight toolkit
Nov 29 10:11:55 <sparkle>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
Nov 29 10:11:55 <sparkle>   916 janet     20   0  7776 4428 1088 D  0.4  4.5   0:00.46 Xtightvnc
Nov 29 10:11:58 <sparkle> still kinda big :-/
Nov 29 10:12:16 <fnord_> Heh
Nov 29 10:12:21 <fnord_> Alarm clock is 10 megs RSS
Nov 29 10:12:36 <sparkle> heh
Nov 29 10:12:41 <fnord_> can you ldd the bin? is it static, or is it linked to x libs?
Nov 29 10:12:54 <sparkle> that's linked
Nov 29 10:12:59 <fnord_> to the x libs?
Nov 29 10:13:04 <sparkle> no point in not building it shared
Nov 29 10:13:15 <sparkle> once you make the committment to using stuff outside the android libds
Nov 29 10:13:37 <fnord_> Well, a static link against uclibc might be smaller
Nov 29 10:13:56 <fnord_> or is it linked to bionic?
Nov 29 10:13:56 <sparkle> i figure i'm going to have a normal libc in memory most of the time anyway
Nov 29 10:14:00 <fnord_> Ahh
Nov 29 10:14:10 <sparkle> there is no point in not building everything shared if i want to same mem
Nov 29 10:14:20 <sparkle> that and i run with paging on most of the time
Nov 29 10:15:35 <fnord_> Not to mention debian :P
Nov 29 10:15:47 <fnord_> A vnc client would be needed
Nov 29 10:16:04 <joeyjones> tmzt: yeah, seems it no longer boots into dzo's android
Nov 29 10:16:23 <fnord_> tmzt, has anyone succeeded in accessing the framebuffer natively?
Nov 29 10:16:51 <tmzt>  cat /dev/urandom > /dev/fb0 works
Nov 29 10:16:59 <tmzt> but X just stops after drawing a frame
Nov 29 10:17:32 <fnord_> s/accessing/rendering something, anything/;
Nov 29 10:17:49 <fnord_> s/anything/anything on the/
Nov 29 10:17:49 <infobot> fnord_ meant: s/accessing/rendering something, anything on the/;
Nov 29 10:17:56 <tmzt> hi infobot
Nov 29 10:18:00 <fnord_> Cute.
Nov 29 10:19:14 <tmzt> fnord_: which device are you on?
Nov 29 10:19:43 <joeyjones> tmzt: it looks like it's booting now :p
Nov 29 10:19:53 <tmzt> oh, sorry, joeyjones
Nov 29 10:20:19 <joeyjones> it seems like some of the files it used were in the root of my sd card, so it hadn;t been properly updating
Nov 29 10:20:30 <joeyjones> sinc ei only replaced the files in sd/android :p
Nov 29 10:20:34 <tmzt> the .img files?
Nov 29 10:20:58 <tmzt> it extracts something to the card
Nov 29 10:21:26 <fnord_> sparkle
Nov 29 10:21:27 <fnord_> USER       PID %CPU %MEM    VSZ   RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
Nov 29 10:21:27 <fnord_> root      9586  0.0  0.8   4564   844 pts/1    S    10:20   0:00          \_ 1/busybox ash
Nov 29 10:21:27 <fnord_> root      9587  0.0  0.8   3196   800 pts/1    S    10:20   0:00              \_ 2/busybox ash
Nov 29 10:21:27 <fnord_> root      9588  0.0  0.2    944   268 pts/1    S    10:20   0:00                  \_ 3/busybox ash
Nov 29 10:21:42 <fnord_> 1 = static glibc. 2 = dynamic glibc. 3 = static uclibc :P
Nov 29 10:21:51 <fnord_> That's why I'm struggling to port things to that
Nov 29 10:22:04 <fnord_> tmzt, gpone
Nov 29 10:22:07 <fnord_> gphone
Nov 29 10:22:55 <sparkle> nods
Nov 29 10:23:30 <tmzt> fnord_: what's going on there? you started on ash from another?
Nov 29 10:24:08 <tmzt> oh, VSZ
Nov 29 10:24:19 <fnord_> yeah but only due to lazyness
Nov 29 10:24:26 <fnord_> I've not ported screen yet
Nov 29 10:24:59 <joeyjones> tmzt: have you heard about the weirdness in the maps app when using mylocation/gps on dzo?
Nov 29 10:25:02 <tmzt> I use glibc since debian uses it, my 64m pxa is usable but I don't run anything like android
Nov 29 10:25:16 <fnord_> glibc is a pig
Nov 29 10:25:18 <tmzt> joeyjones: no
Nov 29 10:25:52 <fnord_> and you can't static link while retaining resolver functionality. Unless you build your own glibc with --enable-static-nss
Nov 29 10:26:06 <joeyjones> tmzt: it shows you moving around in a city in california
Nov 29 10:26:29 <tmzt> wow
Nov 29 10:26:40 <tmzt> but why are you static linking glibc? fnord_ ?
Nov 29 10:26:43 <sparkle> wtf do you want to statically link
Nov 29 10:26:44 <sparkle> seriously
Nov 29 10:26:52 <tmzt> joeyjones: can yu get a shell?
Nov 29 10:26:54 <sparkle> there is no way that does not hurt you memory wise
Nov 29 10:26:57 <joeyjones> yup
Nov 29 10:27:07 <tmzt> cat /dev/smd7
Nov 29 10:27:33 <fnord_> sparkle, static glibc was so wget could resolve. Then I gave up and tossed in the glibc libs. But I thought busybox should be static, so I linked to uclibc
Nov 29 10:27:46 <joeyjones> tmzt: no such file...
Nov 29 10:27:56 <tmzt> oh, because wget is so simple in busybox
Nov 29 10:28:04 <tmzt> joeyjones: cat /proc/devices
Nov 29 10:28:14 <tmzt>  |grep smd
Nov 29 10:28:42 <tmzt> fnord_: so you need glibc, nss, everything else
Nov 29 10:28:58 <fnord_> tmzt, the static versions yeah
Nov 29 10:29:06 <tmzt> I mean dynamic
Nov 29 10:29:17 <tmzt> if you have more than one bin
Nov 29 10:29:27 <fnord_> Waste of space, that :-O
Nov 29 10:29:28 <joeyjones> tmzt: weird, "grep: ommand not found"
Nov 29 10:29:41 <fnord_> tmzt, much better with static uclibc
Nov 29 10:29:46 <tmzt> joeyjones: yeah, can you ls -lh /dev/smd1 or whatever
Nov 29 10:29:56 <fnord_> PHONE ~/bin # ls -l ?/busybox
Nov 29 10:29:56 <fnord_> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     10045     1673116 Nov  6 12:06 1/busybox
Nov 29 10:29:56 <fnord_> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     10045      650508 Nov  8 01:46 2/busybox
Nov 29 10:29:56 <fnord_> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     10027      842244 Nov 26 11:44 3/busybox
Nov 29 10:30:19 <fnord_> 2 = dynglibc, 3 = static uclibc. I imagine dyn uclibc would be quite small
Nov 29 10:30:26 <tmzt> you build busybox staticly against glibc?
Nov 29 10:31:15 <fnord_> uclibc
Nov 29 10:31:55 <fnord_> The static glibc is a copy of the original busybox download that was floating around
Nov 29 10:32:01 <tmzt> what are the three sizes then?
Nov 29 10:32:11 <tmzt> oh
Nov 29 10:32:22 <fnord_> 1 = static glibc, 2 = dyn glibc, 3 = static uclibc :P
Nov 29 10:32:24 <fnord_> all stripped
Nov 29 10:32:35 <tmzt> busybox should be static uclibc since it is all in one elf
Nov 29 10:32:41 <fnord_> Yup
Nov 29 10:32:53 <fnord_> And with uclibc, smaller size, smaller rss, and working resolver
Nov 29 10:32:58 <tmzt> then resolving works? nss? pam?
Nov 29 10:33:01 <fnord_> yup
Nov 29 10:33:14 <fnord_> uclibc doesn't have glibc's flaw in design
Nov 29 10:33:15 <fnord_> :P
Nov 29 10:33:47 <tmzt> people are using glibc static busybox in rc30-modified images?
Nov 29 10:34:00 <tmzt> fnord_: which is?
Nov 29 10:34:05 <fnord_> glibc rebuilt to have static nss would probably produce a 2+meg static busybox bin
Nov 29 10:34:30 <fnord_> tmzt, nss = dynamic by design. making a static nss is a pain, and most distros don't
Nov 29 10:34:46 <tmzt> right, but what is the flaw in glibc?
Nov 29 10:35:20 <fnord_> then you'd have to add -lnss_files -lnss_dns etc to LDFLAGS for everything
Nov 29 10:35:54 <tmzt> not build on .la or something and link against that?
Nov 29 10:35:54 <fnord_> Mostly that they don't believe or support in static nss and the last time I tried the compile crashed and burned. But that was years ago, mostly they fixed it
Nov 29 10:36:20 <fnord_> Tried to awhile back. It failed to build in a really odd way
Nov 29 10:36:30 <fnord_> Maybe it works today
Nov 29 10:37:00 <tmzt> is glibc needed for glib? I never understood that
Nov 29 10:37:24 <fnord_> glibc's needed for most everything but glib doesn't have anything to do with it
Nov 29 10:37:28 <tmzt> also, there is some Gsomething in android base.git source, I don't think it's related to glib but I haven't found out what it is
Nov 29 10:37:44 <tmzt> then it works with uclibc?
Nov 29 10:37:44 * fnord_ looks
Nov 29 10:37:51 <fnord_> tmzt, maybe
Nov 29 10:37:58 <fnord_> uclibc is a small libc for embedded systems
Nov 29 10:38:48 <tmzt> maybe you can figure out this msm_fb, I'd like to have X on kaiser/vogue/raph/diam
Nov 29 10:38:50 <fnord_> where's the Gsomething in the source tree?
Nov 29 10:39:06 <fnord_> Hmm
Nov 29 10:39:27 <fnord_> recommend a simple program that renders FB. And a simple SDL one
Nov 29 10:39:44 <fnord_> Android on kaiser?
Nov 29 10:40:07 <tmzt> maybe it was GGLSurface, it just looked strange
Nov 29 10:40:22 <tmzt> libs/EGLDisplaySurface.cpp
Nov 29 10:40:40 <tmzt> no, I mean Xorg/Xfbdev on kaiser, we tried this in june and it did not work
Nov 29 10:40:51 <tmzt> it would render a frame and part of the cursor and stop
Nov 29 10:40:55 <tmzt> (freeze)
Nov 29 10:40:58 <fnord_> GLSurfaceView.java?
Nov 29 10:41:24 <fnord_> Ahh. What sort of OS/distro was it?
Nov 29 10:41:27 <tmzt> where is that? I mean in .cpp source
Nov 29 10:41:36 <tmzt> OE/Angstrom
Nov 29 10:41:37 <fnord_> it's java
Nov 29 10:41:53 <fnord_> ./development/samples/ApiDemos/src/com/example/android/apis/graphics/
Nov 29 10:42:16 <tmzt> I'm looking in android.git.kernel.org base.git
Nov 29 10:42:20 <fnord_> hey now, wot's this then: ./external/opencore/android/android_surface_output.cpp
Nov 29 10:42:22 <tmzt> not code.google.com/p/*
Nov 29 10:42:38 <tmzt> opencore is for videophone or something
Nov 29 10:42:40 <fnord_> ./frameworks/base/libs/ui/Surface.cpp
Nov 29 10:42:42 <fnord_> Ahh
Nov 29 10:43:39 <fnord_> My problem that the java way of doing things confuses me and pisses me off
Nov 29 10:43:57 <romainguy__> just learn it :)
Nov 29 10:43:58 <tmzt> these are jni libraries called by java, I think
Nov 29 10:44:07 <fnord_> I'd love to write apps for this. I can learn past the confusion but the anger would make it !fun
Nov 29 10:44:35 <romainguy__> why would that make you angry?
Nov 29 10:44:51 <tmzt> I guess you layout ui seperataly in some weirdly-namespaced xml
Nov 29 10:45:02 <romainguy__> you don't have to but it's the preferred way
Nov 29 10:45:05 <fnord_> romainguy_, Maaaybe. Or how would one implement JNI+C code?
Nov 29 10:45:15 <romainguy__> fnord_: it's not supported :)
Nov 29 10:45:28 <fnord_> romainguy_, Well the language syntax itself annoys me
Nov 29 10:45:32 <tmzt> no native code now, but apparently not for security reasons
Nov 29 10:45:56 <tmzt> java?
Nov 29 10:46:05 <fnord_> romainguy_, Will it be? Awhile back I asked about running native apps from within dalvik XD
Nov 29 10:46:19 <romainguy__> it will
Nov 29 10:46:21 <DarkriftX> i think im getting my g1 tomorrow, any tips for getting the best deal?
Nov 29 10:46:28 <fnord_> romainguy_, Excellent!
Nov 29 10:46:37 <romainguy__> second obsession of this channel: native code :)
Nov 29 10:46:39 <fnord_> No more 10 meg rss alarm clock :>
Nov 29 10:46:45 <romainguy__> you guys are monomaniacs :)
Nov 29 10:46:46 <fnord_> There's reasons
Nov 29 10:46:51 <fnord_> Well, sometimes yes
Nov 29 10:47:03 <fnord_> DarkriftX, sell soul to tmobile for 2 years
Nov 29 10:47:06 <tmzt> but what about Atom/Nano support then
Nov 29 10:47:10 <fnord_> DarkriftX, or pawn shop? :P
Nov 29 10:47:13 <DarkriftX> i know that part
Nov 29 10:47:18 <tmzt> at least Davlik will run on those
Nov 29 10:47:47 <DarkriftX> im going with the cheapest faves plan and the unlim data (i dont text, so whatever comes with it)
Nov 29 10:47:58 <tmzt> that's about 50?
Nov 29 10:48:01 <fnord_> romainguy_, Are you allowed to give an eta (actually estimated) for rc31, and clues to what's in it? :D
Nov 29 10:48:06 <DarkriftX> $65 i think they said
Nov 29 10:48:14 <DarkriftX> $40 + $25
Nov 29 10:48:18 <joeyjones> tmzt: lol, apparently calling is now borked
Nov 29 10:48:21 <fnord_> DarkriftX, I think the im client uses sms
Nov 29 10:48:23 <romainguy__> fnord_: nope
Nov 29 10:48:26 <tmzt> I want my prepaid minutes, 20/month data
Nov 29 10:48:29 <DarkriftX> i dont im much either
Nov 29 10:48:30 <fnord_> romainguy_, figured :P
Nov 29 10:48:34 <romainguy__> fnord_: besides, it probably won't be called rc31
Nov 29 10:48:42 <fnord_> romainguy_, oh? whyfor?
Nov 29 10:48:42 <romainguy__> so no, I have nothing about rc31 :)
Nov 29 10:49:30 <tmzt> ip is hard for tmo then? only AIM uses sms?
Nov 29 10:49:41 <fnord_> there's an ip stack
Nov 29 10:49:43 <romainguy__> AIM, MSN and Yahoo! use SMS
Nov 29 10:49:52 <tmzt> but not GoogleTalkProvider?
Nov 29 10:50:02 <romainguy__> no Gtalk doesn't cost SMS
Nov 29 10:50:12 <romainguy__> besides, AIM, MSN and Yahoo! still use tcp/ip
Nov 29 10:50:15 <romainguy__> they just *cost* SMS
Nov 29 10:50:19 <romainguy__> it's very different
Nov 29 10:50:32 <DarkriftX> cool, ill tell my wife to sign up for gmail if she wants so "message" me
Nov 29 10:50:40 <fnord_> I might have to learn more java =[ I have an idea to make a detachable IM proxy and modify the client to use it
Nov 29 10:50:48 <DarkriftX> im mostly getting it for the device itself, not for an im client
Nov 29 10:51:05 <romainguy__> fnord_: Java is not that bad, it allows to write Android apps very quickly
Nov 29 10:51:13 <fnord_> So losing signal won't sign you off, and you'll see the messages when you get signal back
Nov 29 10:51:18 <romainguy__> it's not perfect, like all languages, but it's a good fit for that job
Nov 29 10:51:34 <romainguy__> fnord_: on Gtalk you're not signed off when you lose signal
Nov 29 10:51:43 <romainguy__> I think you're signed off after 10 or 15 minutes
Nov 29 10:51:45 <romainguy__> something like that
Nov 29 10:51:47 <fnord_> romainguy_, Depends on the coder I suppose. As is my SUPass app was a struggle :P
Nov 29 10:51:51 <tmzt> I guess games are going to need native code, then they can just be EGL if there is an input api
Nov 29 10:52:01 <romainguy__> depends on the game
Nov 29 10:52:14 <romainguy__> the real way to do it would be to use JNI
Nov 29 10:52:19 <romainguy__> keep a Java application shell
Nov 29 10:52:26 <tmzt> it looks like most of android could even go to sleeop for certain games
Nov 29 10:52:35 <fnord_> romainguy_, Yah but my problem is I have at least 2 each of gtalk/yahoo/aim
Nov 29 10:52:38 <tmzt> then they could use EGL like the BootupAnimation
Nov 29 10:53:01 <tmzt> since it doesn't appear to need any kind of display manager to work
Nov 29 10:53:03 <fnord_> And a nice server on a fast network. So for me it's a good idea to roll my own solution
Nov 29 10:53:03 <romainguy__> tmzt: but you don't want to lose the activity life cycle, the ability to talk to the Java APIs, etc.
Nov 29 10:53:23 <tmzt> for something like psp or ngage level games I mean
Nov 29 10:53:31 <romainguy__> still
Nov 29 10:53:39 <romainguy__> I've seen Quake run on the phone
Nov 29 10:53:41 <romainguy__> it's a Java app
Nov 29 10:53:46 <DarkriftX> lol, jake?
Nov 29 10:53:47 <romainguy__> with a native component in the middle
Nov 29 10:53:48 <romainguy__> no
Nov 29 10:53:52 <romainguy__> Quake, the real one
Nov 29 10:53:59 <tmzt> it runs on symbian too, I saw today
Nov 29 10:54:03 <fnord_> Heh my friend impressed me with an -old- verizon LG phone
Nov 29 10:54:11 <fnord_> simcity, silent hill, prey
Nov 29 10:54:15 <romainguy__> what I'm saying is you can do it without taking over everything
Nov 29 10:54:18 <romainguy__> and it's still very efficient
Nov 29 10:54:23 <fnord_> Graphics level looked to be at the quake1 level
Nov 29 10:54:26 <romainguy__> (Quake runs at 30+ fps)
Nov 29 10:54:27 <tmzt> BREW has access to the gles on there
Nov 29 10:57:01 <tauno> huh.. someone should update this: http://code.google.com/android/reference/com/google/android/maps/package-descr.html
Nov 29 10:57:26 <romainguy__> file a bug, submit a patch :)
Nov 29 10:57:45 <fnord_> romainguy_, Any chance for someday having AP mode in wlan.ko enabled, and a wifi <-> g1 tether frontend?
Nov 29 10:57:51 <romainguy__> no idea
Nov 29 10:57:53 <fnord_> Err, wifi <-> 3g
Nov 29 10:57:56 <romainguy__> send an email to the mailing list
Nov 29 10:58:01 <romainguy__> or file a feature request
Nov 29 10:58:03 <fnord_> I think tmobile might not like that, but eh
Nov 29 10:58:07 <fnord_> Which list?
Nov 29 10:58:28 <romainguy__> android-discuss, android-developers, android-platform :)
Nov 29 10:58:42 <romainguy__> they're listed on code.google.com/android and source.android.com
Nov 29 10:58:49 <tmzt> fnord_: you need a non-sta driver/firmware
Nov 29 10:59:22 <fnord_> tmzt, I think someone tried an opensrc driver for that chip and it failed miserably
Nov 29 10:59:45 <tmzt> it should be shared memory with sdio interface for enumeration/commands
Nov 29 11:00:01 <fnord_> I'm sure if google asked for a .ko with APmode it would be provided
Nov 29 11:00:02 <tmzt> but the other acx drivers a pretty broken
Nov 29 11:00:16 <tmzt> .ko?
Nov 29 11:00:22 <fnord_> kernel module binary
Nov 29 11:00:29 <tmzt> the source is in git also
Nov 29 11:00:41 <fnord_> for htc dream?
Nov 29 11:01:08 <tmzt> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/wlan/ti.git;a=summary
Nov 29 11:02:15 <tmzt> I think you take the sta* directoy and put into a kernel source tree
Nov 29 11:02:23 <fnord_> yeah, looking in there
Nov 29 11:08:05 <tmzt> do you see a list of ioctl's?
Nov 29 11:09:29 <fnord_> tmzt, That's not the driver on HTC dream
Nov 29 11:09:32 <fnord_> platform/vendor/htc/dream.git is the driver
Nov 29 11:09:49 <fnord_> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/vendor/htc/dream.git;a=tree;
Nov 29 11:10:11 <tmzt> that's the compiled version
Nov 29 11:10:18 <tmzt> you see source too?
Nov 29 11:11:28 <fnord_> Nope. Proprietary according to http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/vendor/htc/dream.git;a=blob_plain;f=README.txt;hb=HEAD
Nov 29 11:13:10 <fnord_> --------------- whalCtrl_PrintHwStatus ---------------
Nov 29 11:13:10 <fnord_> NumMboxErrDueToPeriodicBuiltInTestCheck = %d
Nov 29 11:13:10 <fnord_> NumMboxFailures = %d
Nov 29 11:13:10 <fnord_> license=GPL
Nov 29 11:13:10 <fnord_> description=TI WLAN Embedded Station Driver
Nov 29 11:13:12 <fnord_> UH-OH!
Nov 29 11:13:36 <fnord_> from strings /system/lib/modules/wlan.ko
Nov 29 11:13:43 <fnord_> Naughty!
Nov 29 11:13:47 <fnord_> Spit out src :>
Nov 29 11:13:51 <tmzt> it's not GPL either
Nov 29 11:13:54 <tmzt> it's bsd
Nov 29 11:14:56 <fnord_> the propeitary wlan.ko is based on system/wlan/ti
Nov 29 11:15:03 <fnord_> Which claims to be gpl
Nov 29 11:15:10 <fnord_> So does the binary
Nov 29 11:15:13 <tmzt> where is that?
Nov 29 11:15:41 <tmzt> I think it contains the firmware and that is what is proprietary
Nov 29 11:15:53 <fnord_> g1: /system/lib/modules/wlan.ko, srctree: wlan/ti/sta_dk_4_0_4_32/pform/linux/src/esta_drv.c
Nov 29 11:16:09 <tmzt> I only see sta here
Nov 29 11:16:23 <fnord_> Mebbie, but I think it would be LGPL to wrap around a closed object file
Nov 29 11:17:14 <tmzt> eSTA embedded STA
Nov 29 11:17:19 <fnord_> hm
Nov 29 11:19:10 <fnord_> PHONE ~/bin # strings /system/lib/modules/wlan.ko |egrep '\.c$'|sort -n|tr '\n' ' '
Nov 29 11:19:10 <fnord_> Clsfr.c CmdMBox.c CmdQueue.c Concatenator.c Core_AdaptTx.c Ctrl.c DeConcatenator.c ElpCtrl.c EvHandler.c FwEvent.c GeneralUtil.c HwInit.c MacServices.c MeasurementSrv.c MeasurementSrvSM.c MsduList.c PowerAuthorization.c PowerMgr.c PowerMgrDbgPrint.c PowerSrv.c PowerSrvSM.c RateAdaptation.c RxXfer.c ScanCncn.c ScanCncnAppApi.c ScanCncnAppSM.c ScanCncnDrvSM.c ScanCncnOidSM.c ScanCncnRoamingContSM.c ScanCncnRoamingImmedSM.c ScanSrv.c ScanS
Nov 29 11:19:10 <fnord_> rvSM.c SoftGemini.c SwitchChannel.c TNETWArb.c TNETWArbSM.c TNETWArb_buffer.c TNETWIF.c TNETW_Driver.c TNETW_Driver_Tx.c TrafficMonitor.c ackEmulDb.c ackEmulUtil.c admCtrl.c admCtrlNone.c admCtrlWep.c admCtrlWpa.c admCtrlWpa2.c apConn.c assocSM.c authSm.c broadcastKey802_1x.c broadcastKeyNone.c broadcastKeySM.c bufferPool.c configMgr.c conn.c connIbss.c connInfra.c currBss.c drivers/net/wireless/tiwlan1251/wlan.mod.c env_tst.c esta_drv.
Nov 29 11:19:13 <fnord_> c eventMbox.c fourX.c fourXManager.c fsm.c healthMonitor.c ioctl_list.c ioctl_utils.c ipc_k.c keyDerive.c keyDeriveAes.c keyDeriveTkip.c keyDeriveWep.c keyParser.c keyParserExternal.c keyParserWep.c mainKeysSm.c mainSecKeysOnly.c mainSecNull.c mainSecSm.c measurementMgr.c measurementMgrSM.c measurementSrvDbgPrint.c memMngrEx.c mlmeBuilder.c mlmeParser.c mlmeSm.c mmc_tnetw1150_api.c nrfsm.c openAuthSm.c osClsfr.c osCmd.c osRgstry.c osRgs
Nov 29 11:19:19 <fnord_> try_parser.c osUtil.c osapi.c osmemapi.c proc_stat.c qosMngr.c recoveryCtrl.c recoveryMgr.c regulatoryDomain.c report.c requestHandler.c roamingMngr.c rsn.c rx.c scanMngr.c scr.c select.c sharedKeyAuthSm.c shmBus.c shmDebug.c shmFwCtrl.c shmUtils.c siteHash.c siteMgr.c smeSm.c smeSmApi.c spectrumMngmntMgr.c templates.c tnetw_sdio.c trafficAdmControl.c tx.c txCtrlBlk.c txHwQueue.c txHwQueueCalc.c txResult.c txXfer.c unicastKey802_1x.c un
Nov 29 11:19:24 <fnord_> icastKeyNone.c unicastKeySM.c utils.c whalCtrl.c whalDebug.c whalDefrag.c whalEndpntEnt.c whalHwAccess.c whalHwCtrl.c whalHwEeprom.c whalHwMboxCmd.c whalHwMboxCmdBit.c whalHwMboxConfig.c whalParams.c whal
Nov 29 11:19:27 <fnord_> whoops. looked smaller =[
Nov 29 11:19:55 <fnord_> At the end, interesting bit: wlan.mod.c wlan.mod
Nov 29 11:20:10 <tmzt> the hal is in source though, maybe enough for an ap driver
Nov 29 11:20:31 <tmzt> if the firmware can support it, which if it's called eSTA firmware probably not
Nov 29 11:20:45 <fnord_> it depends on wtf is in wlan.mod I think
Nov 29 11:21:05 <tmzt> that is the main .c file when building the kernel module
Nov 29 11:21:22 <tmzt> oh, wlan.mod I don't know
Nov 29 11:21:43 <fnord_> .mod isn't really a commonly used extension
Nov 29 11:22:07 <tmzt> all that .c source are in there, maybe debugging info?
Nov 29 11:22:28 <fnord_> Yeah someone compiled -g
Nov 29 11:23:00 <fnord_> oh, my mistake
Nov 29 11:23:05 <fnord_> wlan.mod.c wlan.mod.c is at the end
Nov 29 11:23:26 <fnord_> still, no wlan.*\.c in src so I'll assume that's it
Nov 29 11:24:34 <tmzt> kbuild makes it
Nov 29 11:25:28 <fnord_> system/wlan/ti/sta_dk_4_0_4_32/.gitignore has wlan.mod.c
Nov 29 11:26:20 <tmzt>  CMD_BEACON
Nov 29 11:28:06 <tmzt> FW_RUNNING_AS_STA gives it more commands/options
Nov 29 11:28:41 <fnord_> hm
Nov 29 11:28:55 <fnord_> actually i think a real network link via usb would be better
Nov 29 11:29:14 <fnord_> the phone is small, assuming one used a laptop having it attached via cable still isn't bad
Nov 29 11:29:18 <tmzt> well, it might at least support adhoc, does that work now?
Nov 29 11:29:29 <fnord_> multiple computers over 3g might be problematic
Nov 29 11:29:33 <fnord_> yeah
Nov 29 11:29:55 <fnord_> but windows doesn't support adhoc encryption, and my psp doesn't support adhoc for inet routing
Nov 29 11:30:08 <fnord_> I'm sure alot of other devices have crappy adhoc implementations too
Nov 29 11:30:26 <fnord_> smartpads or whatever
Nov 29 11:31:25 <fnord_> wtf is the term for those?
Nov 29 11:34:19 <tmzt> it looks like the fw interface is different depending on FW_RUNNING_AS_AP|STA
Nov 29 11:34:40 <tmzt> whether that means only one is compiled in to the fw, I don't know
Nov 29 11:34:57 <tmzt> but STA uses a longer bitfield in certain places
Nov 29 11:35:28 <fnord_> hmm
Nov 29 11:35:43 <fnord_> I wonder what wlan.mod.c uses
Nov 29 11:35:49 <fnord_> Erm, has
Nov 29 11:35:53 <tmzt> what?
Nov 29 11:35:58 <fnord_> Well
Nov 29 11:36:27 <fnord_> I'm assuming that if I built the driver without wlan.mod.c it wouldn't operate the wifi chipset correctly
Nov 29 11:36:36 <fnord_> romainguy_, what's in wlan.mod.c :P~~
Nov 29 11:36:50 <fnord_> And hmm
Nov 29 11:37:06 <fnord_> There may be stuff in the radio mtd partition that controls wifi too
Nov 29 11:37:10 <tmzt> I still don't know what you mean by wlan.mod.c, usually mod.c is built by kbuild (the kernel build system) as part of making a .ko
Nov 29 11:37:18 <tmzt> yes, there is calibration data
Nov 29 11:37:26 <tmzt> and region data I think
Nov 29 11:37:26 <fnord_> tmzt, oh
Nov 29 11:37:28 <fnord_> Well then
Nov 29 11:37:39 <fnord_> Nevermind that :-O
Nov 29 11:37:42 <tmzt> it's passed to the kernel as an ATAG structure
Nov 29 11:38:04 <tmzt> there could be a .o containing firmware that is built-in to the .ko
Nov 29 11:38:17 <tmzt> or it could be a seperate file
Nov 29 11:40:15 <tmzt> it's TNEW_Driver that gets put in the kernel, I don't know what the rest is actually for
Nov 29 11:40:32 <fnord_> No \.o$ in strings
Nov 29 11:41:58 <fnord_> [root@n1 /opt/arm/android/system]# find -name \*.c|grep `echo \(STRINGS\)|tr ' ' '|'\$` = no match
Nov 29 11:42:30 <tmzt> you wouldn't find the .o files in there
Nov 29 11:42:40 <tmzt> but you can nm with an appropriate nm and try that
Nov 29 11:43:43 <fnord_> hm
Nov 29 11:44:52 <tauno> anyone knows if the maps thingie supports directions? (eg I give it 2 addresses and it plots the way between them automatically)
Nov 29 11:45:03 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 29 11:45:08 <fnord_> yeah it does
Nov 29 11:45:39 <tauno> I mean the API part, not the google mapps application itself
Nov 29 11:46:49 <fnord_> public String routableAddress()
Nov 29 11:46:49 <fnord_> Returns the position of this item in a map-routable format.
Nov 29 11:46:49 <fnord_> Returns
Nov 29 11:46:49 <fnord_>     * By default, a String with the latitude and longitude (comma-separated), in degrees (not microdegrees).
Nov 29 11:48:02 <fnord_> also a function return a bool if routing is displayed
Nov 29 11:48:18 <fnord_> But that's it
Nov 29 11:48:30 <fnord_> =[
Nov 29 12:15:55 <fnord_> [1:1][Kyf@winxp2:tty0]/home/Kyf/_g1_/tools% ./adb ppp
Nov 29 12:15:55 <fnord_> error: adb ppp not implemented on Win32
Nov 29 12:15:57 <fnord_> =[
Nov 29 12:19:10 <tmzt> fnord_: uh, found a script that uses wlan_loader -f /system/etc/wifi/FW1251r1c.bin -e /proc/calibration -i /data/local/tiwlan.ini
Nov 29 12:19:19 <tmzt> fnord_: so the fw is not in the .ko
Nov 29 12:21:44 <fnord_> yet the .ko is a 'proprietary binary' ? or in the proprietary directory for convenience?
Nov 29 12:22:44 <tmzt> I think for licensing/fcc maybe, don't know, it seems it's just htc that did that
Nov 29 12:22:48 <jbq> which directory is it in? I thought that it was just built as part of the kernel.
Nov 29 12:22:56 <fnord_> if FW1251r1c.bin has nothing to do with APmode and wlan.ko is just convenience, we can have AP tether
Nov 29 12:23:13 <fnord_> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/vendor/htc/dream.git;a=tree
Nov 29 12:23:24 <tmzt> /system/lib/modules/wlan.ko on g1
Nov 29 12:23:39 <fnord_> if wlan.ko has proprietary junk, source needs to be released anyway
Nov 29 12:24:38 <fnord_> I'll build a new one and see if it works
Nov 29 12:24:39 <tmzt> with bsd license?
Nov 29 12:24:43 <fnord_> GPL
Nov 29 12:25:01 <tmzt> the source files have bsd headers, I don't know where the gpl came from
Nov 29 12:25:02 <jbq> I think that it's just a plain kernel module whose source is in the kernel tree, but you'd have to check with the kernel team. How about asking on the android-kernel mailing list?
Nov 29 12:25:17 <tmzt> I guess when they build it for linux it's then considered gpl
Nov 29 12:25:57 <jbq> FWIW, notice that the same directory in git also contains the kernel binary.
Nov 29 12:26:00 <tmzt> jbq: ask who? what kernel team?
Nov 29 12:26:29 <fnord_> tmzt, hm.. system/wlan/ti/sta_dk_4_0_4_32/pform/linux/src/esta_drv.c:MODULE_LICENSE("GPL");
Nov 29 12:26:30 <jbq> tmzt: oh, sorry. there's an official android-kernel mailing list for kernel discussions.
Nov 29 12:26:34 <tmzt> right, android build doesn't build the kernel or the module, just platform, and script to extract things for g1
Nov 29 12:26:38 <tmzt> o from
Nov 29 12:26:43 <tmzt> or from
Nov 29 12:26:52 <fnord_> jbq, good point. and people have built working kernels for g1
Nov 29 12:27:06 <tmzt> fnord_: ok, the rest is bsd then except the kernel module/linux driver
Nov 29 12:27:13 <fnord_> tmzt, weird
Nov 29 12:28:33 <fnord_> tmzt, you found #defines for AP/notAP?
Nov 29 12:29:25 <tmzt> hal/hw_ctrl/whalHwCtrl.c
Nov 29 12:30:49 <jbq> Actually, looks like I was wrong and that the wlan.ko source tree isn't in the kernel.
Nov 29 12:31:15 <jbq> see http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/vendor/htc/dream.git;a=commit;h=f02fda020c9485f7fd6132d84638aef8cb6b2a6f for information about where they come from.
Nov 29 12:31:55 <fnord_> Yeah it's in system/wlan
Nov 29 12:32:10 <eldenz> if i want to code a client for a networking game that needs persistent connections, i would need a service to do the networking, right?
Nov 29 12:32:37 <eldenz> and my app binds to the service and receives packet contents?
Nov 29 12:32:58 <jbq> eldenz: if you want them to have a better chance to survive when you app is in the background, yes, your app needs to contain a started service.
Nov 29 12:33:09 <jbq> You don't need to bind it, you can also just start it.
Nov 29 12:34:19 <eldenz> ok, and is that applicaiton model suitable for android? i wonder why there aren't yet any apps/games that need persistent connection at the market...
Nov 29 12:34:31 <eldenz> i guess it needs quite some battery?
Nov 29 12:34:56 <jbq> well, it depends on how often you transmit data, and on how often the connection gets cut.
Nov 29 12:35:17 <tmzt> jbq: any idea on MSMFB_BLIT?
Nov 29 12:35:30 <eldenz> alright, thanks jbq
Nov 29 12:35:38 <jbq> tmzt: from the name, I'd say it has to do with graphics.
Nov 29 12:35:41 <tmzt> jbq: as in, is it needed if data is written directly to /dev/fb0 with mmap?
Nov 29 12:35:51 <tmzt> jbq: right, sorry
Nov 29 12:36:01 <jbq> tmzt: no idea, I'm not a graphics guy :(
Nov 29 12:36:02 <fnord_> Also adb's ppp mode could work for tether. Just needs a little modification for win32, and most likely a tiny cygwin distro
Nov 29 12:36:50 <tmzt> fnord_: sure, you could try slirp or the qemu sources
Nov 29 12:37:06 <fnord_> yeh
Nov 29 12:37:12 <jbq> eldenz: if you have good coverage, the battery impact of an established TCP socket that doesn't send or receive any data is reasonably small. Not small enough to be negligible, but typically not the end of the world.
Nov 29 12:37:42 <Dialekt> gimme
Nov 29 12:38:22 <fnord_> this would require iptables access as well. So for non root, maybe adb forward, a sock proxy, and something like runsocks for windows
Nov 29 12:39:11 <fnord_> actuallt tetherbot does that all except for runsocks
Nov 29 12:39:13 <fnord_> hm
Nov 29 12:42:01 <fnord_> http://soft.softoogle.com/ap/sockscap-download-5157.shtml ...awwwyeah
Nov 29 13:28:42 <fnord> :D
Nov 29 13:29:15 <fnord_> ><
Nov 29 13:29:47 <fnord_> connected to irc via usb -> phone -> openvpn -> tmobile -> personal server
Nov 29 13:29:57 <fnord_> But tcp connections keep dropping. Maybe freecap sucks
Nov 29 13:32:42 <fnord_> hmm
Nov 29 13:32:49 <fnord_> yep, not the irc client
Nov 29 13:37:23 <tmzt> can you use ssh -L ?
Nov 29 13:38:19 <tmzt> I guess there is also ssh tunnelling now (with tuntap/pcap), but not in dropbear
Nov 29 13:38:45 <tmzt> while I use openssh-client on debian, I use dropbear on wrt
Nov 29 13:39:13 <fnord_> Mebbie I should port openssh-client to ucblic XD
Nov 29 13:39:27 <fnord_> uclibc even
Nov 29 13:40:07 <tmzt> it might compile, it uses openssl I think which works with uclibc
Nov 29 13:40:47 <fnord_> My openvpn port uses bionic and the onboard openssl
Nov 29 13:41:06 <fnord_> So mebbie I can get away with that...but onboard openssl is missing ciphers
Nov 29 13:41:16 <fnord_> No blowfish and RSA is borked
Nov 29 13:41:23 <tmzt> oh
Nov 29 14:53:31 <eldenz> how do i get a pointer to a local service i started? :f
Nov 29 14:56:01 <eldenz> kinda the wrong channel
Nov 29 15:45:03 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 29 16:12:02 <savid> How do I make a view that looks like a dialog box that blurs out the background?  I want to make this the main view of my application...
Nov 29 16:23:28 <Delvien> So i want root access.
Nov 29 16:26:18 <Delvien> anyone have a link to a good guide?
Nov 29 16:30:38 <Disconnect> 4g microsdhc for $7 http://www.ecost.com/Detail/Flash+Memory+Cards/Dane-Elec/CU-SDMC-4096-B/42922476.aspx?navid=155441514
Nov 29 16:30:44 <Disconnect> what rc are you at?
Nov 29 16:33:07 <Versed> disconnect are they any good?
Nov 29 16:33:38 <Delvien> r30
Nov 29 16:33:46 <Delvien> disconnect r30 *
Nov 29 16:33:55 <Disconnect> then no, you can't get root.
Nov 29 16:34:24 <Delvien> Doh
Nov 29 16:36:10 <Delvien>  wonder why they locked it down so much
Nov 29 16:36:48 <Delvien> well, security i suppose, but there should be other workarounds then blocking root "hacks"
Nov 29 16:37:20 <d03boy> penis
Nov 29 16:37:43 <Delvien> d03boy: That doesnt belong here, go somewhere else and act retarded
Nov 29 16:38:37 <d03boy> sorry sir
Nov 29 16:38:48 <d03boy> i think i need ritalin
Nov 29 16:39:07 <Delvien> d03boy: No, drugs wont solve your problem :)
Nov 29 16:39:28 <d03boy> will make it more fun though
Nov 29 16:42:16 <Disconnect> Delvien: there is a huge semantic difference between "open" as used by the world and "open" as used by google. you just faceplanted on it. :)
Nov 29 16:46:06 <Delvien> Disconnect sadly
Nov 29 16:47:47 <Delvien> Disconnect isnt it released under GPL?
Nov 29 16:48:21 <Disconnect> first, no. (apache, which is basically a bsd licence) and second, gpl covers -distribution-. has nothing at all to do with what you can do on your hardware.
Nov 29 16:49:18 <Delvien> Disconnect eek
Nov 29 16:50:03 <Delvien> Disconnect Well i wont be updating to the next firmware when its released, hopefully by then they will have a jailbrake
Nov 29 16:50:21 <Disconnect> you don't have a choice. after a certain amount of time it upgrades anyway.
Nov 29 16:50:54 <Delvien> Disconnect Well, whats the point then... open my a%%
Nov 29 16:55:48 <Leeds> really?  it over-rides the "don't upgrade now" after a while
Nov 29 16:55:52 <Leeds> ?
Nov 29 16:56:26 <fnord_> yep, gotta rename /system/etc/otacerts.zip
Nov 29 16:56:40 <fnord_> Then install a custom recovery to be safe :>
Nov 29 19:29:39 <Heooooo> Can I get a linux terminal to android?
Nov 29 19:30:36 <Heooooo> Do vim, bash and sed work?
Nov 29 19:30:55 <Disconnect> yes. no. no. no.
Nov 29 19:31:29 <Heooooo> What can I do with the terminal then?
Nov 29 19:32:41 <Disconnect> whatever you want.
Nov 29 19:33:07 <Heooooo> Disconnect: Can I get a perl compiler?
Nov 29 19:33:17 <Disconnect> no such animal. perl is interpreted.
Nov 29 19:33:43 <Heooooo> Disconnect: Correct. Can I sync it with my Mac OSs and Ubuntus?
Nov 29 19:34:08 <Disconnect> no. why don't you try using google for a whle?
Nov 29 19:35:13 <Heooooo> Disconnect: Thank you. I will :) Just wondering between android and openmoko
Nov 29 19:35:30 <Disconnect> only one of these things can make/receive phone calls on a repeatable basis. choose wisely.
Nov 29 19:37:39 <Heooooo> Disconnect: Dunno what you mean. Youtube had a video of OpenMoko with Android. Dunno whether it was real :?
Nov 29 19:38:34 <Disconnect> from everything i've seen/heard, openmoko is totally unstable and can't handle basic tasks like making and receiving calls. and currently android requires a keyboard, so..
Nov 29 19:39:09 <Heooooo> Disconnect: Thank you for your clarification!
Nov 29 19:40:06 <dcordes_> Disconnect, install openmoko on the dream ;)
Nov 29 19:40:12 <dcordes_> Heooooo, I mean
Nov 29 19:40:20 <Disconnect> you can't, its locked down.
Nov 29 19:40:25 <dcordes_> uuh sucks.
Nov 29 19:40:31 <Disconnect> many of the retail units are arriving with rc30 these days.
Nov 29 19:40:46 <dcordes_> I'd not buy such a device
Nov 29 19:41:13 <dcordes_> Disconnect, how can you check for firmware revision?
Nov 29 19:41:14 <Disconnect> then you are in the wrong channel. cuz there is no provider that is going to sell a phone thats user-flashable.
Nov 29 19:41:43 <Heooooo> Disconnect: You mean Android is locked down? How is Android open source then?
Nov 29 19:41:52 <dcordes_> :(
Nov 29 19:41:53 <Disconnect> what does source have to do with hardware?
Nov 29 19:41:58 <dcordes_> ?
Nov 29 19:42:15 <Disconnect> just what I asked.
Nov 29 19:42:27 <Heooooo> Disconnect: I am just questioning what the open source in Android actually mean.
Nov 29 19:42:40 <dcordes_> Heooooo, you can make beautiful java apps :D
Nov 29 19:42:58 <Disconnect> it means the source is available, for the most part. that has nothing to do with actual phones.
Nov 29 19:43:14 <Heooooo> dcordes_: Disconnect Can you recommend it as coding machine?
Nov 29 19:43:29 <Disconnect> i'd get a netbook for coding on.
Nov 29 19:43:51 <dcordes_> a nice indicator is the lack of the sources to the ril. the actual piece of software that makes the phone a phone
Nov 29 19:44:15 <Heooooo> Disconnect: I have two such "netbooks" but I need a phone as well.
Nov 29 19:45:03 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 29 19:45:18 <Heooooo> Can I practise coding with Android? Can I run DrScheme and such environment?
Nov 29 19:45:20 <dcordes_> Disconnect, do you know where I can get a dump of the g1 rootfs? I can only find the updates.
Nov 29 19:45:46 <Disconnect> dcordes_: the full update holds the entire fs
Nov 29 19:46:06 <dcordes_> Disconnect, have a url there?
Nov 29 19:46:22 <Disconnect> nope. but i'd bet google does.
Nov 29 19:54:44 <offby1> "Let Me Google That For You™"
Nov 29 20:12:29 <dcordes_> offby1, that would be nice
Nov 29 20:41:10 <Death_Syn> ok, att's 3g network in dallas is horribly slow
Nov 29 20:41:24 <Death_Syn> i'm downloading the sdk so i can tether to my g1
Nov 29 20:41:35 <Death_Syn> i'm getting just a bit over dialup speeds
Nov 29 20:43:49 <JesusFreke> att's 3g?
Nov 29 20:43:54 <JesusFreke> via another phone? or on the G1?
Nov 29 20:49:23 <eldenz> how do i change orientation in emulator? F11/F12/KP_7/KP_9 are not doing anything
Nov 29 20:49:29 <eldenz> is there an adb command?
Nov 29 20:50:00 <eldenz> (i'm on a laptop keyboard)
Nov 29 20:55:43 <Disconnect> home i think
Nov 29 20:57:02 <eldenz> nope
Nov 29 21:00:15 <Disconnect> dunno. on my mbp its fn-7 (which is the same as kp-7)
Nov 29 21:00:19 <Disconnect> brb
Nov 29 21:17:45 <RyeBrye> infobot what is google?
Nov 29 21:17:46 <infobot> somebody said google was a search engine found at http://www.google.com/
Nov 29 21:19:20 <JesusFreke> rofl
Nov 29 21:20:04 <sparkle> hah
Nov 29 21:23:26 <Randalthor> lawlz
Nov 29 21:23:36 <Randalthor> infobot what is infobot?
Nov 29 21:23:37 <infobot> randalthor, I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/), or updated sources at http://infobot.sf.net/, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire, or awesome.
Nov 29 21:24:12 <Randalthor> haha thats cool
Nov 29 21:25:21 <offby1> oo, I have some small interest in bots
Nov 29 21:25:25 * offby1 follows the link
Nov 29 21:26:19 <offby1> ooh, moribund.
Nov 29 21:26:21 <offby1> pfeh.
Nov 29 21:30:14 <JesusFreke> infobot who is jesusfreke
Nov 29 21:30:15 <infobot> JesusFreke: what are you talking about?
Nov 29 21:30:19 <JesusFreke> lol :)
Nov 29 21:30:22 * greudin is now playing: 1989 06 DISINTEGRATION - lullaby
Nov 29 21:30:38 <JesusFreke> infobot who is Randalthor
Nov 29 21:30:39 <infobot> I think you lost me on that one, JesusFreke
Nov 29 21:30:56 <Randalthor> lols
Nov 29 21:30:56 <JesusFreke> infobot what is jesusfreke
Nov 29 21:30:57 <infobot> JesusFreke: what are you talking about?
Nov 29 21:31:01 <JesusFreke> ah well :)
Nov 29 21:31:05 <JesusFreke> I'll stop now. lol
Nov 29 21:31:26 * meyou- np: Devin the Dude - Almighty Dollar [04:09m/320kbps/44kHz]
Nov 29 21:37:10 <RyeBrye> infobot JesusFreke is a twisted soul who tinkers with the lifeblood of the T-mobile G1 for sadistic pleasure
Nov 29 21:37:11 <infobot> okay, RyeBrye
Nov 29 21:37:27 <JesusFreke> infobot who is jesusfreke
Nov 29 21:37:28 <infobot> well, jesusfreke is a twisted soul who tinkers with the lifeblood of the T-mobile G1 for sadistic pleasure
Nov 29 21:37:31 <JesusFreke> rofl
Nov 29 21:37:46 <JesusFreke> thanks :p
Nov 29 21:37:47 <RyeBrye> :)
Nov 29 21:38:40 <RyeBrye> infobot where can I get a signed nbh upgrade image that will turn a normal G1 into an engineering device with a fully unlocked bootloader?
Nov 29 21:39:25 <JesusFreke> does not compute? :D
Nov 29 21:39:26 <RyeBrye> infobot - you are no help :(
Nov 29 21:39:27 <infobot> I think you lost me on that one, RyeBrye
Nov 29 21:39:48 <RyeBrye> infobot have you been instructed by counsel not to answer these questions?
Nov 29 21:40:00 <dcordes_> RyeBrye, tried accessing the other nand partitions?
Nov 29 21:40:11 <JesusFreke> poor infobot. he takes so much abuse
Nov 29 21:40:46 <JesusFreke> you'll make the poor thing overload his positronic brain
Nov 29 21:41:12 <RyeBrye> dcordes_ - no, not too much effort on that yet - the bootloader should get loaded into a part of shared memory - so I've been tinkering and trying to map / dump that memory using progressively more difficult methods
Nov 29 21:42:06 <RyeBrye> dcordes_ - if I can reliably dump that memory, there is a mythical phone in the wild that got accidently shipped with an unlocked bootloader that happened to land in the hands of a friendly person who will definitely dump it for us...
Nov 29 21:43:00 <JesusFreke> Rye, do you have Saurik's kernel? (it's included in RC30 v1.2). It has /dev/mem and /dev/kmem
Nov 29 21:43:07 <RyeBrye> dcordes_ - if you can dump 1 meg of  memory starting at 0x00 (physical memory) to a file, I know a lot of people who would be interested
Nov 29 21:43:18 <JesusFreke> Might be useful. (but you would probably know better than me :))
Nov 29 21:43:59 <RyeBrye> JesusFreke - no, haven't used that yet.. I did compile my own with /dev/mem and /dev/kmem - but it seemed to puke on the attempts to use dd in various ways to dump it
Nov 29 21:44:12 <JesusFreke> yeah, same here
Nov 29 21:44:18 * RyeBrye flashes his boot.img like it's going out of style 
Nov 29 21:44:27 <JesusFreke> I just figured you had to use a different method to access it
Nov 29 21:44:46 <JesusFreke> I don't really know much about it though
Nov 29 21:45:02 <RyeBrye> we tried modifying the pmem stuff android uses to actually map the physical 0x00 address to something we could snag easily - but that didn't work so well
Nov 29 21:45:05 <Impossible_> RyeBrye, have you had to take out insurance on your fingers now that they are famous on teh internets? ;)
Nov 29 21:45:29 <JesusFreke> infobot has ByeBrye taken out insurance on his fingers?
Nov 29 21:45:43 <dcordes_> RyeBrye, do you document these things in a public place?
Nov 29 21:45:47 <Impossible_> heh
Nov 29 21:45:51 <JesusFreke> I think we killed infobot
Nov 29 21:45:55 <RyeBrye> dcordes_ - probably should, but we haven't recently
Nov 29 21:45:58 <offby1> *gasp*
Nov 29 21:46:10 <dcordes_> RyeBrye, any central place of discussion?
Nov 29 22:03:54 <Droidrift> w000t
Nov 29 22:04:02 <Droidrift> got my G1
Nov 29 22:04:26 <romainguy__> :)
Nov 29 22:04:48 <Droidrift> darkrift is no longer g1'less
Nov 29 22:05:02 <Disconnect> what rc?
Nov 29 22:05:12 <Droidrift> no idea
Nov 29 22:05:19 <Droidrift> just activated
Nov 29 22:05:31 <Droidrift> lets try...
Nov 29 22:05:47 <romainguy__> argh root obsession is striking again!
Nov 29 22:06:09 <Droidrift> i bought it because of root lol
Nov 29 22:06:15 <Disconnect> its not root obsession. its a desire to "let the community fix it" by working on the platform. :P
Nov 29 22:06:26 <Droidrift> exaactly
Nov 29 22:06:46 <romainguy__> Disconnect: the community can use the emulator for that :)
Nov 29 22:06:50 <Disconnect> hahahahhaa
Nov 29 22:07:07 <JesusFreke> woot. gratz dark :)
Nov 29 22:07:13 <Disconnect> 3 of the 4 problems we just discussed with my app (inside the sdk, not doing anything funky) worked perfectly in the emu
Nov 29 22:07:55 <romainguy__> Disconnect: what problems?
Nov 29 22:08:06 <Disconnect> actually only 2 i think. but still :) the scrolling cache and the load time. and scrolling cache is a flat bug in the platform that behaves differently on the emu..
Nov 29 22:08:24 <romainguy__> the scrolling cache is just fine
Nov 29 22:08:41 <romainguy__> as for the load time well yes... obviously timings will be different
Nov 29 22:09:17 <droidrift2> lol
Nov 29 22:09:18 <Disconnect> (i accept that the -real- fix is theming.. but still. scrolling the emu didn't black out the listview rows)
Nov 29 22:09:45 <droidrift2> typing the r e b o o t  command worked
Nov 29 22:10:02 <romainguy__> Disconnect: the scrolling cache code was developed on the emulator :)
Nov 29 22:10:17 <Disconnect> DarkriftX: you can type "cat<enter>" and it won't read anything else, ever (no ^C/^D in the console)
Nov 29 22:10:38 <droidrift2> my g1 smells :s
Nov 29 22:11:21 <Disconnect> romainguy_: it behaves differently on the emu tho. scrolled fine, with no cache color hint
Nov 29 22:11:27 <droidrift2> imma turn it off till i get home
Nov 29 22:11:32 <Cyrano_De> So what is the issue with root obsession on an "open" platform again?
Nov 29 22:11:46 <offby1> people like to control the devices that they own.
Nov 29 22:11:50 <droidrift2> so i can apply jf's rc30
Nov 29 22:11:52 <offby1> Daft punters.
Nov 29 22:12:14 <romainguy__> Cyrano_De: open != having root
Nov 29 22:12:31 <Cyrano_De> That does not answer the question
Nov 29 22:12:57 <Disconnect> Cyrano_De: its only open if you happen to be a hw manufacturer or have open hw from some external source. so g1 devs who want to work on the platform have to either get hired @ google or break into their devices. some pigs are more equal than others :)
Nov 29 22:13:26 <romainguy__> like I said, you can use the emulator
Nov 29 22:13:33 <romainguy__> it's what most of the Android team uses for development
Nov 29 22:13:36 <Disconnect> romainguy_: ok. explain to me how i get pand running on the emulator.
Nov 29 22:14:31 <Cyrano_De> sidestep....ignore...Got it.
Nov 29 22:16:25 <TiberiumX> romainguy__: What's your "anti-root" obsession?  I've seen you here more than once decrying the quest for root access.
Nov 29 22:16:45 <romainguy__> I'm not anti-root
Nov 29 22:17:04 <romainguy__> it's just that this channel talks only about getting root and writing native code :)
Nov 29 22:17:13 <romainguy__> I would love to see more discussions about writing actual apps
Nov 29 22:17:14 <romainguy__> that's all
Nov 29 22:17:16 <benley> ME TOO
Nov 29 22:17:24 <Disconnect> so join #android-dev. thats what its for..
Nov 29 22:17:29 <Disconnect> :)
Nov 29 22:17:29 <benley> the root access thing is a huge distraction
Nov 29 22:17:44 <dcordes> RyeBrye, #define MSM_SHARED_RAM_PHYS   0x01F00000
Nov 29 22:18:18 <JesusFreke> infobot are you alive?
Nov 29 22:18:19 <infobot> The dead cannot live
Nov 29 22:18:50 <Disconnect> benley: yah but it comes solely from the fact that android is closed.
Nov 29 22:18:51 <TiberiumX> Disconnect: Ahh, I didn't know about that one.
Nov 29 22:19:09 <Disconnect> if it were open to developers, instead of just app writers, nobody would be freaking out about it.
Nov 29 22:19:20 <Disconnect> and none of the "hangers on" wold be jumping up and down decrying it.
Nov 29 22:19:20 <TiberiumX> Well, we should differentiate between android and the G1.  Andoid is open.
Nov 29 22:19:33 <benley> Disconnect: dude, it's not closed.  The G1 is kinda closed.  You have the source to android, though.
Nov 29 22:19:35 <dcordes> infobot, why do people want me to only use the google userspace on my g1?
Nov 29 22:19:37 <infobot> why not?
Nov 29 22:20:04 * dcordes slaps infobot with board-trout
Nov 29 22:23:21 <Alien_Freak> see, I think you're confusing two aspects, getting root on the G1 opens up a whole new array of things you can do with the phone above and beyond just using the android API
Nov 29 22:23:36 <fnord_> romainguy_, is it possible to load arbitrary urls with the page stripping proxy?
Nov 29 22:23:55 <romainguy__> fnord_: like I said, low-level stuff are not my thing :)
Nov 29 22:24:08 <fnord_> That's low level? o.o
Nov 29 22:24:18 <romainguy__> for me, yes
Nov 29 22:24:40 <fnord_> was going to suggest making a browser menu command to load mobile-friendly version of the current page :D
Nov 29 22:24:59 <Cyrano_De> My G1 is sadly limited in what I can do with it compared to my N810 mainly as a result of not having root.
Nov 29 22:25:05 * fnord_ will look into that feedback thinie
Nov 29 22:25:09 <fnord_> thingie
Nov 29 22:25:09 <romainguy__> fnord_: ah ok, sorry I get what you're talking about now :)
Nov 29 22:25:13 <Disconnect> awrafdkfdsjfkl. does traceview work on osx? it just bails when i run it against my trace file
Nov 29 22:25:20 <romainguy__> it works
Nov 29 22:25:26 <Disconnect> ok. i'll see what else might be going on.
Nov 29 22:25:27 <romainguy__> at least it's supposed to
Nov 29 22:25:40 <romainguy__> (a large part of the Android team works on OS X fwiw)
Nov 29 22:25:40 <Cyrano_De> I was truely hoping to replace the N810 with something with a cellular radio.
Nov 29 22:26:35 <Cyrano_De> I can't even tether my N810 to the G1 and have the best of both worlds and I have to wait for Google/HTC to fix that if they will at all.
Nov 29 22:26:36 <fnord_> Cyrano_De, tether it, if you have root.
Nov 29 22:26:43 <kRutOn> Cyrano_De: I wonder if the WiMAX version lets you have root
Nov 29 22:27:13 <fnord_> Cyrano_De, with root it's possible to make the g1 an adhoc wifi -> g3 router
Nov 29 22:27:16 <Cyrano_De> I don't live in the one city on this continent where wiMax is an option.
Nov 29 22:27:31 * fnord_ is looking into a solution using adb pppd
Nov 29 22:27:42 <Cyrano_De> With root other developers might have a chance to fix the tethering issue.
Nov 29 22:28:19 <fnord_> Already done but unfortunately you need to avoid the latest firmware to do so
Nov 29 22:28:33 <Disconnect> fnord_: don't use adb pppd just set up pand + pppd.
Nov 29 22:28:35 <kRutOn>  fnord: I couldn't figure out adb ppp even after looking at the source code
Nov 29 22:28:48 <Cyrano_De> Not to mention the lack of a2dp so I can toss the crappy little usb/stereo dongle in the trash where all such things belong.
Nov 29 22:28:50 <fnord_> Disconnect, it depends if one wants bluetooth or usb :>
Nov 29 22:29:22 <Disconnect> yep. but the pppd config will 99.9% identical.
Nov 29 22:29:24 <Cyrano_De> Why make a "Wireless" device at all and force a cable on your users.
Nov 29 22:29:33 <fnord_> Disconnect, btw, pester me in around 3 hours to test that
Nov 29 22:29:48 <Disconnect> fnord_: to test pand or dund or..?
Nov 29 22:29:58 <fnord_> the pand bandwidth issue
Nov 29 22:30:19 <Disconnect> cool
Nov 29 22:35:10 <ivantis2> HAI android people
Nov 29 22:35:20 <ivantis2> is android running on any other phone than the G1?
Nov 29 22:36:07 <offby1> not that's in public release, as far as I know.
Nov 29 22:37:21 <ivantis2> ok
Nov 29 22:37:34 <ivantis2> is ivantis still here?
Nov 29 22:37:40 <ivantis2> oh good
Nov 29 22:47:58 <Chewy954> anyone have a good tut to get root on rc28?
Nov 29 22:48:33 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 29 22:49:06 <Chewy954> I followed one but it says connection refused, returned null
Nov 29 22:49:07 <Chewy954> :|
Nov 29 22:49:22 <Disconnect> just install jf's rc30 update
Nov 29 22:49:25 <Disconnect> (NOT the goog one)
Nov 29 22:50:00 <Chewy954> ok
Nov 29 22:50:02 <Chewy954> let me google
Nov 29 22:50:02 <Chewy954> thanks
Nov 29 22:50:50 <Chewy954> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443041
Nov 29 22:50:51 <Chewy954> that?
Nov 29 22:50:55 <Chewy954> wont i need root for it? o.0
Nov 29 22:51:24 <Disconnect> omg. someone who googles without asking a million questions.
Nov 29 22:51:26 <Disconnect> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713 is what you want
Nov 29 22:51:42 <Disconnect> yah start with 443041 sorry. updated recovery.img
Nov 29 22:52:29 <Chewy954> lol, thanks :P
Nov 29 22:52:41 <Disconnect> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Rooting_Android
Nov 29 22:53:38 <Chewy954> i did that and when I telnet to the phone it doesnt repond
Nov 29 22:53:39 <Chewy954> :\
Nov 29 22:54:15 <Disconnect> enter telnetd enter
Nov 29 22:54:41 <Chewy954> i didnt do enter beforehand
Nov 29 22:54:42 <Chewy954> thanks
Nov 29 22:56:23 <Chewy954> hmm
Nov 29 22:56:28 <Chewy954> should i update to rc29 first?
Nov 29 22:56:31 <Disconnect> no
Nov 29 22:56:34 <Chewy954> ok
Nov 29 22:56:58 <Chewy954> ok
Nov 29 22:57:00 <Chewy954> it connected
Nov 29 22:57:01 <Chewy954> :o
Nov 29 22:57:13 <Chewy954> thanks =]
Nov 29 23:00:28 <Chewy954> i get permission denied in the terminal emulator still :\
Nov 29 23:01:04 <Disconnect> ok do you understand how root works and what it does/doesn't do?
Nov 29 23:01:27 <Chewy954> a bit
Nov 29 23:01:35 <Chewy954> it allows full access to everything :P
Nov 29 23:01:40 <Disconnect> ...not really. but ok.
Nov 29 23:01:42 <Chewy954> so pretty much, I can brick my phone with it.
Nov 29 23:03:42 <Chewy954> hmm
Nov 29 23:03:48 <Chewy954> i found a tut of the same thing but broken down
Nov 29 23:03:51 <Chewy954> let me try this
Nov 29 23:11:15 * DarkriftX now has rc30+root :)
Nov 29 23:11:24 * DarkriftX is happy now :)
Nov 29 23:11:59 <Disconnect> now you can tell me if pand is slow for you :)
Nov 29 23:13:53 <Chewy954> o.o
Nov 29 23:13:56 <Chewy954> pand?
Nov 29 23:23:40 <Chewy954> bah
Nov 29 23:23:41 <Chewy954> when i telnet
Nov 29 23:23:44 <Chewy954> i enter to mount
Nov 29 23:23:48 <Chewy954> connection resets
Nov 29 23:23:49 <Chewy954> =[
Nov 29 23:24:51 <fnord_> o.o that's odd
Nov 29 23:25:25 <Chewy954> yea
Nov 29 23:26:00 <Chewy954> let me try again
Nov 29 23:26:01 <Chewy954> o.0
Nov 29 23:28:17 <DarkriftX> how is andnav working?
Nov 29 23:37:15 <Chewy954> now i get a error while reading socket
Nov 29 23:37:15 <Chewy954> odd
Nov 29 23:37:16 <Chewy954> o.0
Nov 29 23:37:36 <fnord_> is it still running?
Nov 29 23:37:56 <fnord_> DarkriftX, it's good, for a gps app. Not so good for finding the nearest pho restaurant :>
Nov 29 23:38:23 <DarkriftX> it says its not real time.....
Nov 29 23:41:00 <fnord_> hmm well I never drove with it...
Nov 29 23:41:06 <fnord_> so maybe it's not a good gps app :>
Nov 29 23:45:03 * IznastY - [ is away ] [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ] [ Time: 22:44:55 ] [ Pager: on ] [ Log: on ]
Nov 29 23:49:02 <Damm> you know IznastY is always away... always with his public away
Nov 29 23:49:05 <Chewy954> damnit
Nov 29 23:49:05 <Damm> damn that's annoying
Nov 29 23:49:11 <Chewy954> i keep getting error while reading socket
Nov 29 23:49:11 <Chewy954> :\
Nov 29 23:49:30 <Damm> DarkriftX, when did you buy a G1?
Nov 29 23:52:57 <Disconnect> damnit. i can't get traceview to work :(
Nov 29 23:53:04 <Disconnect> (work as in do anything other than crash)
Nov 29 23:55:56 <Damm> Disconnect, that qualifies as 'work'... for the G1
Nov 29 23:56:04 <Disconnect> sometimes.
Nov 29 23:56:18 <Damm> eh just wait for Android 2.0
Nov 29 23:59:30 <DarkriftX> yes Damm
Nov 30 00:00:10 * DarkriftX goes out to eat (with his new little buddy of course), AFK
Nov 30 00:00:37 <Damm> well i can't rag on you about that anymore then I guess :(
Nov 30 01:05:51 <IznastY> Damm: didnt realize public away was on
Nov 30 01:54:09 <mib_thctsw> anyone heard the status of irc?
Nov 30 01:54:19 <mib_thctsw> mibbit is lacking
Nov 30 01:55:08 <TiberiumX> Set up a server, ssh into it with connectbot, and use a console IRC client?  I don't think anybody has an Android one out yet.
Nov 30 01:55:21 * ttuttle does that.
Nov 30 01:55:39 <droidrift> its being worked on
Nov 30 01:55:54 <droidrift> just wondering about status
Nov 30 02:12:30 <d03boy> irc client is in the works
Nov 30 02:12:34 <d03boy> status is basically non-existent
Nov 30 02:12:38 <d03boy> there are a lot of issues to work out
Nov 30 02:12:45 <d03boy> because of the connection loss issues
Nov 30 02:22:21 <VersedG1> byper
Nov 30 02:47:49 <DarkriftG1> hrmmmmm
Nov 30 02:48:30 <DarkriftG1> i love the browser on this thing
Nov 30 02:49:13 <VersedG1> chrome right
Nov 30 02:49:25 <DarkriftG1> almost
Nov 30 02:49:35 <VersedG1> k
Nov 30 02:50:55 <VersedG1> but i agree its nice
Nov 30 02:51:30 <DarkriftG1> it seems better than on the emu
Nov 30 02:52:03 <VersedG1> they did do their homework
Nov 30 02:53:00 <DarkriftG1> i posted to my forum and it was not bad
Nov 30 02:54:14 <VersedG1> on@this irc client edge seems far more stable
Nov 30 02:54:35 <offby1> which client?
Nov 30 02:55:01 <DarkriftG1> im on mibbit
Nov 30 02:55:07 <VersedG1> gric or whatevere its called
Nov 30 02:55:08 <d03boy> thats because they use a server-side connection
Nov 30 02:55:18 <d03boy> oh, mibbit
Nov 30 02:55:31 <VersedG1> im not on mibbit
Nov 30 02:55:45 <d03boy> what is gric
Nov 30 02:55:49 <VersedG1> irc ap
Nov 30 02:56:31 <VersedG1> nyt on efnet #android wrote it.
Nov 30 02:56:53 <VersedG1> its beta so milage may vaty
Nov 30 02:57:59 <d03boy> is there a website for it
Nov 30 02:59:08 <offby1> ircbeta.apk is what I used.  Pretty nice.
Nov 30 02:59:26 <VersedG1> that is it
Nov 30 02:59:52 <VersedG1> he calls it girc or something like that now
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 30 02:59:57 2008