**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 02 02:59:57 2008 Dec 02 03:05:38 question, why does at and t not care about iphones not having root locked down but tmobile cares about that issue w/ the g1 Dec 02 03:07:25 it's more than just 'root' Dec 02 03:07:40 the root hole on the G1 was very easy to exploit, even by accident Dec 02 03:08:00 <_zippy> it also leads to thing they don't want users to touch :) Dec 02 03:08:02 what do you mean Dec 02 03:08:30 Typing 'rm -rf /' into a text message shouldn't actually execute that command. Dec 02 03:08:58 right, way too easy to damage your phone with it - or to manipulate someone else into damaging theirs Dec 02 03:09:01 what kind of a point is that Dec 02 03:09:20 it's not a case of locking down root, it's a case of closing a large security hole Dec 02 03:09:41 whose security are you worried about Dec 02 03:09:52 tmobiles or the users? Dec 02 03:10:19 In this case, the problem was definitely a concern for all users. Dec 02 03:10:38 i see Dec 02 03:12:10 wouldnt allowing users the discretion to decide whether or not they want to "unlock" root Dec 02 03:12:23 not be a violation of such concerns Dec 02 03:13:01 everytime ive brought it up here romainguy has said tmobile was concerned Dec 02 03:13:14 and they were right to be concerned Dec 02 03:13:17 Sure, nobody is saying that they're right to lock everyone out of their phone (or at least I'm not), but the problem that they fixed was pretty serious. Dec 02 03:13:24 don't get me wrong - I think we should have root on our own devices Dec 02 03:13:26 but it doesnt make sense that iphones have root and its not an issue Dec 02 03:13:35 iphones do *not* have root Dec 02 03:13:50 sure they do Dec 02 03:13:54 how? Dec 02 03:13:57 passwd alpine Dec 02 03:14:10 and how can you use that password? Dec 02 03:14:16 su Dec 02 03:14:24 and how can you use su... Dec 02 03:14:40 installing openssh Dec 02 03:14:47 and how can you... Dec 02 03:14:53 and a bsd subsystem Dec 02 03:15:03 hacking/jailbreaking Dec 02 03:15:08 ah-ha! Dec 02 03:15:27 see, nobody has shown or seen any sign of an attempt to stop 'hacking' on Android Dec 02 03:15:41 what they have done is closed a big and dangerous security hole Dec 02 03:15:53 you know about the modded rc30 updates, right? Dec 02 03:16:17 i was extremely sad when i found out rc30 closed a hole that mightve given me the opportunity to capture control of my device Dec 02 03:16:41 but i suppose im the one who clicked ok to the update Dec 02 03:16:49 then you should have declined t-mob's version of rc30 and installed the community-supported one which still has root access Dec 02 03:17:04 <_zippy> but i'm sure you would have been extremely mad if t-mob didn't, and someone formatted your phone ;) Dec 02 03:17:21 and the point is that - while of course I wouldn't expect google people to actually say so - I don't think anyone at the google end has any real issues with the modded rc30 Dec 02 03:17:21 if google puts out an update that doesnt confirm with the user ill officially change my position on google to consider it evil Dec 02 03:18:01 milluminu: and I'm sure Larry and Sergey are quaking in their boots Dec 02 03:18:03 milluminu: those decisions aren't Google's to make. Dec 02 03:18:05 <_zippy> milluminu: a forced update has it's legitimate purposes Dec 02 03:18:47 <_zippy> leeds: rumors are they have problems with it since it apparently may have pushed back the buying ability on the market app Dec 02 03:19:07 <_zippy> cont: since people with root can copy over previously protected .apk's Dec 02 03:19:10 now... what would be good would be a way to enable root acess through adb or something like that - which makes it a very explicit "I want the chance to break my phone" like the "I want to be able to download non-market apps" box, but harder Dec 02 03:19:39 _zippy: I haven't seen that, but I'm not going to disagree with you :-) Dec 02 03:19:51 jbq: anything to contribute? Dec 02 03:20:17 <_zippy> leeds: heh - no need to disagree... cracked versions and keygens of applications have appeared for ones that have not released their .apk's! :) Dec 02 03:20:24 good morning bots :) Dec 02 03:20:35 morning eugene :) Dec 02 03:20:41 :) Dec 02 03:20:47 hot and wet still? Dec 02 03:20:47 <_zippy> definitely something only a rooted phone could gain, /me sighs Dec 02 03:21:10 Leeds: I'm not a copyright lawyer, so it's hard for me to comment here. As I understand, those are tricky issues that haven't been fully tested in court yet. Dec 02 03:21:27 jbq: on the specific issue of end-users having root access to their device? Dec 02 03:21:36 Leeds: yes. Dec 02 03:21:55 not sure how copyright law would apply... Dec 02 03:22:52 <_zippy> reguardless of copyright law... google has to keep t-mobile happy.. i mean if they choose to drop support of the android os because google won't plug what they deem holes... then android is without a carrier Dec 02 03:23:24 <_zippy> i mean, just my random thought on it Dec 02 03:23:36 <_zippy> i know i'd be pissed if i where tmobile and google didn't make me happy ;) Dec 02 03:24:09 _zippy: there should be at least a couple more major manufacturers shipping android devices next year... do you see microsoft getting scared and making changes in win-mob to placate a single carrier? Dec 02 03:24:59 for freedoms and such, having root is far less important than an unsigned bootloader. An open bootloader would really make your phone "open" they way you say you want it. I think that is the bigger issue here as far as "my-device-i-do-what-i-like" goes. Dec 02 03:25:40 an unsigned bootloader? Dec 02 03:25:43 <_zippy> leeds: no - but microsoft has backing and is accepted already... android has only one carrier currently using it Dec 02 03:26:22 _zippy: you'd be amazed how many people are using HTC Dream devices without a t-mob account and/or SIM Dec 02 03:26:38 what is an unsigned bootloader? surely you're not referring to the branded image that hides the init processes Dec 02 03:26:40 <_zippy> oh, i believe it Dec 02 03:26:44 seriously, it's only in the US where the concept of a carrier having that much power applies Dec 02 03:26:50 Leeds: About copyright law: US law 17#1201(b) is interesting. I wouldn't like to have to testify in court about whether getting root is covered by that little detail. I don't know what my lawyers would recommend that I say. Dec 02 03:26:54 milluminu: the ability to completely reinstall the OS Dec 02 03:27:22 DM-fucking-CA? Dec 02 03:27:29 Leeds: yup. Dec 02 03:27:52 (well, at least for the DM part and the CA part, the rest isn't part of the name) Dec 02 03:28:03 not the official name, anyway :-P Dec 02 03:28:28 that law, of course, does not apply to me - or to anyone who has bought a G1 in the UK, where they've been officially for sale for the past month Dec 02 03:29:46 hi Dec 02 03:29:46 you know, this whole conversation was cooler when it was "lets figure out how to get root." not "lets lament the fact that we can't do it the way we did it before." Dec 02 03:29:55 also, I thought that SIM-unlocking was a specific exception under clause C? Dec 02 03:29:57 that's because it was easy the first two times around :) Dec 02 03:29:57 that was fun to lurk with. Dec 02 03:30:27 first 2 times what now? Dec 02 03:30:29 all the low-hanging fruit has been picked now, so it gets harder to get and keep root Dec 02 03:30:38 what was the second way? Dec 02 03:30:39 Actually chapter 12 isn't DMCA. Dec 02 03:30:54 wastrel, there was the telnetd way and the "keyboard input is fed to a root shell", no? Dec 02 03:31:09 KNY: those are both the same thing Dec 02 03:31:14 uh, maybe it is, I'm too tired to read. Dec 02 03:31:24 JesusFreke1, ah. Well, still, it was easier before :) Dec 02 03:31:29 yeah telnetd worked because it was being launched from the rootshell Dec 02 03:31:39 the telnetd trick only worked *because* it was getting run on the root shell Dec 02 03:31:42 *nod* Dec 02 03:32:09 hmm... it is explicitly legal to buy and sell Beta VCRs which don't have automatic gain control (meaning they beat macrovision, AIUI) as long as less than 1000 of them are sold in a year in the US :-D Dec 02 03:33:23 Leeds: yeah, some of the law is surprisingly precise :) Dec 02 03:33:23 are there even that many people that actually use beta? :D Dec 02 03:33:37 automatic gain control sounds like such a nice feature. automatic... control... Dec 02 03:33:47 <_zippy> gain Dec 02 03:33:51 <_zippy> who doens't like gain? Dec 02 03:34:01 jbq: funny to see both the explicit technology and number encoded in the law Dec 02 03:34:25 Leeds: yup. Dec 02 03:35:25 Although not so precise, I also love 17#120(a). Dec 02 03:36:28 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/19e73cc53df3736b -- was that removed in a later version of the SDK/API? Dec 02 03:38:52 oh, I think they're talking about making an Activity look like a Dialog Dec 02 03:38:52 dang Dec 02 03:39:19 any of you guys watch prison break? Dec 02 03:39:38 i would if i had root Dec 02 03:40:04 those writers can stretch a story longer than any other show on tv Dec 02 03:40:04 marix: that show pissed me off first season when they never broke out...I bailed Dec 02 03:40:16 but alas i dont so i cant kill these shitty processes that make it a pain to play videos Dec 02 03:40:26 i thought they left first season, then were running at season finale Dec 02 03:40:40 I don't think so Dec 02 03:40:49 <_zippy> marix: never seen lost? Dec 02 03:41:26 <_zippy> don't get me wrong, i love lost, and will be deeply saddened when it's off air... but the plot is getting some salt-water-taffy work done on it Dec 02 03:41:41 tru.dat Dec 02 03:41:58 the thing w/ lost is, it doesnt ever feel like its going anywhere Dec 02 03:42:06 <_zippy> ehh Dec 02 03:42:07 its lost Dec 02 03:42:18 w/ prisonbreak, its almost over every other episode, then some turn Dec 02 03:42:31 <_zippy> it feels like it's going places... it's just 8 plot lines at the same time... so it takes atleast 4 episodes to get somewhere, 1 step in all for plot lines Dec 02 03:42:35 best shows: mad men, entourage, desperate houswives, battlestar galactica Dec 02 03:42:35 i quit after season 2, realized producers were going into "cash cow" mode Dec 02 03:42:55 <_zippy> marix: i can't really talk about prisonbreak, i watched a few episodes of it the first season then got bored Dec 02 03:43:00 entourage ftw Dec 02 03:43:05 <_zippy> zhobbs: bsg :D:D AMAZING cliff hanger - huh? Dec 02 03:43:18 _zippy: yeah, I'm ready to fast forward to january Dec 02 03:43:38 I haven't watched bsg since like season two or three :-/ Dec 02 03:43:39 <_zippy> can't wait to see lost and bsg on the new hd-tv Dec 02 03:43:48 <_zippy> kny: def a must download Dec 02 03:43:51 ever since they left new caprica Dec 02 03:44:02 * zhobbs bought a new hdtv today...getting it in a couple weeks Dec 02 03:44:04 _zippy, I have them all through like, season 5 or something, I just stopped watching Dec 02 03:44:17 <_zippy> no interest Dec 02 03:44:18 <_zippy> ? Dec 02 03:44:21 no time Dec 02 03:44:24 <_zippy> I honestely never saw an episode Dec 02 03:44:32 <_zippy> then before the last season started Dec 02 03:44:40 <_zippy> i was on sick leave Dec 02 03:44:49 <_zippy> and they showed all the seasons straight essentially on scifi Dec 02 03:44:51 yeah, I watched up until where I am now in the span of like two weeks Dec 02 03:44:56 <_zippy> easy way to get hooked... hah Dec 02 03:45:07 <_zippy> some where def fillers, but the newest season was crazzzy! Dec 02 03:45:28 is entourage over for this season? Dec 02 03:45:44 marix: yeah :( Dec 02 03:46:09 wonder if it'll get picked up again Dec 02 03:46:22 i heard numbers were way down Dec 02 03:46:44 that sucks, it better get picked up Dec 02 03:47:06 I've never seen Entourage Dec 02 03:47:44 <_zippy> same Dec 02 03:48:51 all the seasons are avail online, its a 30 minute show, so quick seasons Dec 02 03:49:16 torrents? or on hbo.com? Dec 02 03:49:37 torrents Dec 02 03:49:59 or netflix has the dvds Dec 02 03:50:18 yeah, I love finding a show that I like and it's in it's 5th season or something.... Dec 02 03:50:31 always have something to watch for a couple months Dec 02 03:50:33 LOL Dec 02 03:51:37 <_zippy> hah Dec 02 03:51:40 <_zippy> ever watch an anime? Dec 02 03:51:47 <_zippy> my fiance got me hooked on something Dec 02 03:51:57 <_zippy> freaken - 25 dvd's later Dec 02 03:52:00 <_zippy> shesh Dec 02 03:52:03 hehe Dec 02 03:52:14 I've never watched anime; I've never understood the allure Dec 02 03:52:15 <_zippy> good thing she got it from he cousins in hong cong :) cost a great... $5 Dec 02 03:52:45 <_zippy> kny: it's something people either get or don't... when it's done right it's not a cartoon but more like an excellent movie that someone chose to do in all cgi Dec 02 03:52:52 I knew a bunch of people who loved "initial d"...but yeah, I never got anime Dec 02 03:53:20 <_zippy> it's just a cultural thing i guess Dec 02 03:53:31 How easy/possible is it to animate the transition between two activites? Like one is sliding out while the other is sliding in, as you might see on the iphone. Dec 02 03:53:46 TiberiumX: I do that using an ActivityGroup Dec 02 03:53:49 yeah, whatever floats your boat. I could watch "How it's made" on the Science Channel for hours on end, so I guess I'm not perfect Dec 02 03:54:13 <_zippy> oh dang Dec 02 03:54:24 <_zippy> how it's made is one of the only shows i can't watch on the science channel ahhaah Dec 02 03:54:31 haha Dec 02 03:54:40 <_zippy> but then again Dec 02 03:54:43 <_zippy> i am perfect.. Dec 02 03:54:47 _zippy, you're the anti-KNY Dec 02 03:54:48 <_zippy> so that makes sense then, right? Dec 02 03:54:49 <_zippy> haha Dec 02 03:55:30 hong kong is a terrible place for piracy Dec 02 03:55:35 zhobbs: Ahh, haven't heard of that class. Thanks for the starting point. Dec 02 03:56:05 <_zippy> leeds: it's not technically pirated, wasn't licensed at the time we bought it, so it is (was?) considered legal Dec 02 03:56:16 TiberiumX: not a lot of docs on it, but if you've grabbed the android git repo you can study TabActivity some to get a feel for how to use it Dec 02 03:56:24 wasn't licensed? Dec 02 03:56:26 <_zippy> i'd never trust the software from there, though i do get to examine it alot for new malware :) Dec 02 03:56:54 <_zippy> leeds: when an anime/tv show/etc isn't licensed in the US, you can download/get dvd's of it as a fan-sub Dec 02 03:56:54 so you wouldn't trust software you got from me? ;-) Dec 02 03:57:01 not legally, you can't Dec 02 03:57:23 <_zippy> I don't know the exact legality of it Dec 02 03:57:47 <_zippy> but it falls under something of, they arn't marketing to the US and arn't selling in the US, so it isn't considered illegal by some standard? Dec 02 03:58:06 What would be the advantage of ActivityGroup if you weren't using it to facilitate inter-activity animations? Pre-loading of a complicated activity? Dec 02 03:58:11 <_zippy> the whole concept of most of the things posted on sites like, crunchyroll.com Dec 02 03:58:21 <_zippy> (as i understand it atleast?) Dec 02 03:58:42 it might not be an enforced copyright - but just because they don't sell it doesn't mean you can copy it at will Dec 02 03:59:04 Ahh hell, just about anything you can do with audio/video media is probably illegal somewhere. I don't even care anymore. I probably shouldn't even be able to watch DVDs on my linux system. Dec 02 03:59:41 TiberiumX: I use it because there is a common set of buttons on the bottom throughout my app...so I can leave those there and just replace the space above them Dec 02 03:59:51 ie, tabs Dec 02 03:59:54 <_zippy> leeds: i stand corrected; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fansub#Legal_and_ethical_issues Dec 02 04:00:26 <_zippy> though, i don't feel bad getting a fansub for something that i can't otherwise watch even if i bought the original media... i can't understand enough cantonese -- and half of them are in mandarine! Dec 02 04:00:27 <_zippy> hah Dec 02 04:01:44 so learn cantonese! Dec 02 04:01:55 (as my chinese girlfriend keeps telling me) Dec 02 04:01:57 <_zippy> i do know cantonese :) Dec 02 04:02:00 <_zippy> just not all of it Dec 02 04:02:10 <_zippy> mandarine is a bitch though... Dec 02 04:02:14 heh, I don't - I've only lived here for 3.5 years Dec 02 04:02:21 people keep telling me mandarin is easier to learn Dec 02 04:02:23 _zippy: cantonese is harder to learn as compared to mandarin :) Dec 02 04:02:33 yeah, people like eugene Dec 02 04:02:52 <_zippy> eugene: i guess it depends who is teaching you! my cantonese fiance is great for learn canto, but mandarine blowws Dec 02 04:03:19 <_zippy> heck i now know more toisonese than i do mandarine Dec 02 04:03:36 toisonese? taiwanese you mean? Dec 02 04:03:48 <_zippy> no, toisonese Dec 02 04:03:53 <_zippy> southern chinese dialect Dec 02 04:03:58 hmm Dec 02 04:04:03 ok, no idea :) Dec 02 04:04:13 <_zippy> spoken in where ever my fiance's parent come from Dec 02 04:04:27 _zippy: i lost my roots in china Dec 02 04:04:35 <_zippy> apparently southern china has a different dialect every 5 miles or so though... so it's not uncommon for poeple to never know it haha Dec 02 04:04:49 <_zippy> yea Dec 02 04:05:07 _zippy: haha. i only know fujian (hokkien), teochew (chaozhou), and a bit of cantonese (guangdong) Dec 02 04:05:13 <_zippy> ahh Dec 02 04:05:30 <_zippy> yea my fiance and parents are fluent in toisonese, canto and mandarine... Dec 02 04:05:32 mostly southern china dialects Dec 02 04:05:39 I only know English, some Hebrew, a little French, and a tiny bit of Spanish and Cantonese Dec 02 04:05:39 <_zippy> though they always speak toisonese and canto Dec 02 04:05:52 <_zippy> they all understand mandarine, but never speak it unless spoken too Dec 02 04:05:54 ah Dec 02 04:06:07 <_zippy> thus - why i find it so much harder ;) Dec 02 04:06:25 <_zippy> since her parents DONT speak english, i needed to learn something to talk to them Dec 02 04:06:25 <_zippy> haha Dec 02 04:06:47 hehe Dec 02 04:08:00 <_zippy> it's tough conversion when all you can say is hi and bye ahah Dec 02 04:08:15 _zippy: to really learn a language, you need to be in the right environment. Dec 02 04:08:56 <_zippy> eugene: agreed... when i stay with the fiance at her parents, i notice i can understand it so much more... since it's all they speak... and they live in chinatown Dec 02 04:09:01 * _zippy sighs Dec 02 04:09:25 <_zippy> still funny to walk into chinatown resturants and hear them bad mouth the white guy infront of me, and not think i know what they are talking about Dec 02 04:09:26 <_zippy> hahaha Dec 02 04:09:30 my gf's mum doesn't speak a word of english... which is convenient, really Dec 02 04:10:10 _zippy: oh i had that too Dec 02 04:10:37 hehe Dec 02 04:11:05 eugene: erm, you aren't white Dec 02 04:11:12 Leeds: that's worst Dec 02 04:11:34 Leeds: whenever I am out with non-chinese friends, the chinese thought I am a cheat or some pimp :) Dec 02 04:11:47 <_zippy> hahaha Dec 02 04:11:55 one of the earlier words I learned in Cantonese was fat - I hear it tossed my way from kids on the street relatively often... Dec 02 04:12:26 <_zippy> fei doy :D Dec 02 04:12:41 <_zippy> i hear that a lot on the 9man court, since i'm about double the other players haha Dec 02 04:13:27 gtg, brb :) lunch appointment :) Dec 02 04:13:43 I had a bit of a go-nowhere thing with a girl last year... she *still* doesn't understand why I don't really like her calling me fei-fei - that 'fatty' isn't the nicest nickname Dec 02 04:14:33 Leeds, should've called her slut-slut -- see how she liked it :) Dec 02 04:14:45 KNY: oddly enough, I've called her that once or twice ;-) Dec 02 04:14:51 haha Dec 02 04:14:53 well done Dec 02 04:14:57 <_zippy> leeds: they like pudges haha Dec 02 04:15:01 or "slurp-slurp" Dec 02 04:15:18 actually, more like "you stupid fucking slut" - I was trying to, well, upset her at the time Dec 02 04:15:20 <_zippy> i've always found the woman hates it when i reference "long time" Dec 02 04:15:21 <_zippy> haha Dec 02 04:15:31 <_zippy> diew... Dec 02 04:33:05 back. on the tain Dec 02 04:35:01 <_zippy> hmm Dec 02 04:35:04 <_zippy> enjoy the trip Dec 02 04:35:11 <_zippy> i'm off to bed, enough android dev for today! Dec 02 04:36:09 bye! Dec 02 04:48:13 everyone here speaks chinese Dec 02 04:48:15 apparently Dec 02 04:48:57 you mean you don't? Dec 02 04:49:16 wo bu hui shuo zhongwen Dec 02 04:49:29 what? :-) Dec 02 04:50:32 so who's good at java regex? I'm trying to extract a substring from a string. In Perl this would be like $string ~= m/garbage(gold)garbage/ and the matched portion would be in $_ Dec 02 04:52:19 * offby1 laughs cruelly Dec 02 04:52:27 stupid java Dec 02 04:57:12 Haha, do they really make it that difficult? I haven't needed a java regex yet. Dec 02 04:58:01 TiberiumX: clearly you are not a Perl man Dec 02 04:58:49 yeah, it's not very straightforward Dec 02 04:58:52 (that I can see) Dec 02 04:58:56 Acutally I use perl for just about everything I can get away with. I was referring to java being so much harder that someone who was "good" at their regex system would be necessary. Dec 02 04:59:12 TiberiumX, they didn't even *have* regex until 1.4 Dec 02 05:00:02 When did 1.4 show up? Dec 02 05:00:17 is there a tool to unpack .arsc files? Dec 02 05:01:01 TiberiumX, I don't know off the top of my head, but I don't think it was all that long ago Dec 02 05:02:27 TiberiumX, February, 2002 was the GA date Dec 02 05:02:43 I think that may have been the version they were teaching us in my programming class in college. I recall being told not to use 1.5 features because they were't prepared to grade them. Dec 02 05:03:38 yeah, without generics and the new for loops? Dec 02 05:03:45 1.4 sucked Dec 02 05:04:53 Yeah, looks like 1.5 was out in Sept 2004. Dec 02 05:05:27 Funny, most of the java I did was with 1.1 (with a bit of 1.0 and 1.2). Dec 02 05:07:02 jbq, I bet you got to know instanceof pretty well, eh? Dec 02 05:07:50 KNY: ewww! I'd have been killed by my teachers if I used something like that other than for debugging purposes... Dec 02 05:08:08 :) Dec 02 05:28:43 Hmm, it is a little ...different. To do a substitution you have to create a Pattern, and then a Matcher with the string you want to sub within and THEN you can call replaceAll to do what $x =~ s/a/b/g would do. Dec 02 05:32:07 TiberiumX, yeah, I understand that, but I don't want to replace Dec 02 05:32:12 I wanted to extract text Dec 02 05:33:28 Oh, I was just running into a situation where I wanted to replace, and that's what I pullsed out of the docs. Dec 02 05:33:36 yeah Dec 02 05:34:22 that part is pretty easy, but I don't think it has the extraction feature of regex integrated. i think you have to use Matcher.start() and Matcher.end() to get the points for the substring and do it yourself Dec 02 05:34:23 Looks like you want to create the Matcher and then do find, to extract your parenthesized region. Dec 02 05:34:32 yeah Dec 02 05:34:50 Err, not find, group Dec 02 05:35:05 I'll play with it tomorrow Dec 02 05:35:07 thanks Dec 02 05:35:10 "Returns the text that matched a given group of the regular expression" Dec 02 05:46:16 Argh, I innocently go to turn the border off on a window and kwin decides to crash on me. Dec 02 05:51:47 LOL Dec 02 05:52:32 so anyone else notice that locale doesnt work? Dec 02 05:55:18 I tried to use it to turn off wifi when I left home, but it didn't handle location detection very well. Dec 02 05:55:25 yeah Dec 02 05:55:34 i have home and work setup, neither are detected properly Dec 02 05:56:31 so do the market/browser cache hack/tweaks really work? Dec 02 05:56:37 symlinking them to the sdcard Dec 02 05:56:56 I tried to symlink an apk to the sd card and it wasnt even detected anymore so I hadnt tried Dec 02 05:59:13 Dunno, I have the official RC30, so I can't try it. Dec 02 06:06:41 Any idea what ContentValues.getAsString returns when the key doesn't exist? It says all of the others return null, but doesn't say anything about this one. I would hope just an empty String, but I wish it would say something. Dec 02 06:15:07 anyone know the location of the market cache? Dec 02 06:44:14 !sc Dec 02 06:51:29 nice, an ftp client just hit the market Dec 02 06:51:40 i heard someone in here said they were working on one, wonder if this is it Dec 02 06:52:02 I need to get Eclipse set up so I can start working on Android apps Dec 02 06:52:05 * sparkle nods Dec 02 06:52:09 I paid the developer fee yesterday Dec 02 06:52:15 connectbot could probably have scp functionality grafted onto it pretty simply Dec 02 06:52:16 And my G1 should arrive in the morning :) Dec 02 06:52:30 connectbot could become anything Dec 02 06:52:40 * sparkle nods Dec 02 06:52:44 connectbot rocks, from what I can tell Dec 02 06:52:45 id like to see scp, ftp, terminal and all that good stuff Dec 02 06:52:51 connectbot could do with a local mode Dec 02 06:52:58 definitely Dec 02 06:52:59 i hate using terminal apps because they dont look/act like connectbot :( Dec 02 06:53:04 it there any way to have it automatically "unlock" a key when started up Dec 02 06:53:09 or do i have to tweak it Dec 02 06:53:21 Nafai: for the record, you know it's not a developer fee, it's a "deliver apps through the marketplace" fee? Dec 02 06:54:00 Leeds: Right. I was trying to come up with the right term for it. :) Dec 02 06:56:42 /j #beijinglug Dec 02 06:58:23 eugene: nope Dec 02 06:59:08 Is there a "notepad" application for Android? Dec 02 06:59:51 there are a few Dec 02 07:00:08 do you want to open files on the sdcard or just jot notes Dec 02 07:00:47 Primarily the latter, though the former would also be nice Dec 02 07:01:50 look for an app called MyReader - does exactly that Dec 02 07:02:17 er, skip that... that's my reader, not my editor Dec 02 07:02:44 the one I use for editing is pTextEdit Dec 02 07:02:55 need an avim Dec 02 07:03:47 ok, so far market and browser cache seem to be working fine on my sd card Dec 02 07:05:03 "dumb fxkss .. wanna call people dumb cuzz dey dont know watt datt root bullshit iss? fxk outta muh face" Dec 02 07:05:11 ACTUAL COMMENT ON MARKET. Market needs to die, now. Dec 02 07:05:29 wow. that's impressive. lol Dec 02 07:05:50 my word Dec 02 07:06:01 "obama wants to raise gas prices by a dollar by taxing it, it just went down.. BEWARE" Dec 02 07:06:09 THANKS BRO, HELPED ME CHOOSE WHICH APP TO USE. Dec 02 07:06:18 wow, the black G1 is so much better than the white one! It's not plain old plastic but some kind of "anti slippery" plastic, they keyboard is actually usable and visible(!) in the dark (can't see the key labels on the white one when the backlight is on) and you can feel the "clicks" when scrolling with the trackball.. Dec 02 07:06:33 i like the black matte finish too Dec 02 07:06:46 im surprised how much illiteracy is evident on the market, id figure those who can afford this phone could afford to know more than 14 words :S (and their spelling) Dec 02 07:06:59 mom and dad buy them for them i'm sure Dec 02 07:07:00 or something Dec 02 07:07:01 it's absolutely fucking horrible Dec 02 07:07:13 you can kinda tell the market for the g1 by listening to the ringtones Dec 02 07:07:14 oy Dec 02 07:07:58 lol Dec 02 07:08:02 "Busted pipe??...this is open source dev's please make apps that go for all g1 users "rooted and "unrooted" OPEN SOURCE!!!!!!" Dec 02 07:08:10 YES Dec 02 07:08:18 Open source means you don't need root! Dec 02 07:08:19 o/ Dec 02 07:08:24 that person would have had a "skateboarding is not a crime" sticker on their locker Dec 02 07:08:28 :p Dec 02 07:08:42 i hate how an app says "For rooted RC30 only, do not use if you do not have root" and ppl score it 1 star because it says "I cant figure out how to get it running, what is root" Dec 02 07:08:48 yes Dec 02 07:08:48 fucking morons Dec 02 07:08:51 it's fucking annoying Dec 02 07:09:01 these people shouldn't be able to afford a G1 Dec 02 07:09:05 i know :S Dec 02 07:09:05 mommy should have bought them a sidekick Dec 02 07:09:18 lol Dec 02 07:09:20 mommy should have spanked some sense into them Dec 02 07:09:29 * DarkriftX seconds that last one Dec 02 07:09:40 well, hopefully the market will be moderated soon Dec 02 07:09:43 "Im giving it 1 star cuz I f*cking can!!" Dec 02 07:09:50 * Gary|tp claps. Dec 02 07:10:28 "Dont make fuckin programs every one cant use... thats fuckin selfish!! especially if u not gon tell them how to use it!" Dec 02 07:10:34 I'm done. Fuck the market. Dec 02 07:11:01 * sparkle shrugs Dec 02 07:11:25 lol Dec 02 07:11:38 feel free to submit your apps to my forum lol Dec 02 07:11:42 "We shouldnt need root access. Lazy developing and isolating those who don't want/know root access. Appalling program." Dec 02 07:11:55 Nice spelling, but still a tard. Dec 02 07:11:55 It's no different than anywhere else on the web. Allowing public comments = spam from countless idiots, jackasses and dipshits Dec 02 07:12:15 nothing wrong with public comments as long as there's some moderation Dec 02 07:12:18 it needs to be moderated Dec 02 07:12:21 I'd do it for free ffs. Dec 02 07:12:25 true that, Leeds Dec 02 07:12:35 "all comments referring to needing - or lack of - root will be deleted" would solve that one very easily Dec 02 07:12:47 but can a developer delete comments? Dec 02 07:12:52 doubt it Dec 02 07:12:57 didnt think so Dec 02 07:13:27 I feel so sorry for you guys.. I'm going to write my first comment to the market now.. a nice one :P Dec 02 07:13:36 ive written a few Dec 02 07:13:51 I've written one or two. Dec 02 07:13:52 i saw one yesterday taht pissed me off Dec 02 07:14:05 "oops, didnt mean to download this one, sorry" (1 star) Dec 02 07:14:09 There's a limit to message length thatmakesituselessimo. Dec 02 07:14:24 oh,andI hate my spacebar Dec 02 07:14:28 can you leave no-score comments? Dec 02 07:14:28 lol Dec 02 07:14:31 nope Dec 02 07:14:35 but you dont have to comment Dec 02 07:14:47 the right side of the spacebar is less sensitive, and I mainly use my right thumb to space Dec 02 07:14:48 Gary|tp: I thought you were trying to fit your message into a small space :-) Dec 02 07:14:52 like 90% of the time Dec 02 07:14:54 heh, no :P Dec 02 07:15:29 I can't really understand why people comment the apps? I mean "oops, didnt mean to download this one, sorry" (1 star) <- why would he comment an app that he accidentally downloaded? I can't understand that. Dec 02 07:15:47 Leeds: hmm the gigi phone dont seem to have a keyboard Dec 02 07:15:49 i didnt get it either Dec 02 07:16:01 it takes extra efford to comment Dec 02 07:16:03 because Dec 02 07:16:04 download, install, reopen market, find the app, comment Dec 02 07:16:35 they're fucking 14 year olds who fail at school and think that by commenting they're earning some kind of e-cred Dec 02 07:16:41 eugene: soft keyboard is expected to land before the end of Q1 Dec 02 07:16:52 We can thank MySpace for that. Dec 02 07:16:59 when I doubt anyone actually *reads* the markets comments, except people like us to laugh at them. Dec 02 07:17:12 Leeds: ah... Dec 02 07:17:12 i read them Dec 02 07:17:18 Leeds: i still prefer a real keyboard Dec 02 07:17:18 try anyways Dec 02 07:17:25 eugene: so get a G1 :-P Dec 02 07:17:27 if I see something on the market I generally know what it is before hand lol Dec 02 07:17:36 there needs to be an easier way to update apps btw Dec 02 07:17:58 why would I comment an app anyway? I mean.. even if it's a great app - it already has tens of comments in the style "great app" whats the point of adding my "great app" comment? Can I just rate the app without commenting? Dec 02 07:18:13 IIRC yes Dec 02 07:18:30 but you won't get any e-cred, tauno! Dec 02 07:18:39 yep, you can rate without commenting. Just not vice-versa Dec 02 07:18:57 Decavolt, that's great :) Dec 02 07:19:57 Leeds: not cheap not cheap. i missed that AMEX special deal! Dec 02 07:20:09 you have a US amex? Dec 02 07:21:41 Leeds: does it matter? Dec 02 07:21:54 dunno, I've already got a phone :-) Dec 02 07:22:18 Leeds: hehe Dec 02 07:22:46 i'm having so much 'fun' working with people from the other side of the globe... waiting waiting... Dec 02 07:22:56 * sparkle chuckles Dec 02 07:23:15 the g1 keyboard is annoying but less annoying than i expected Dec 02 07:23:23 yay im back in the land of dsl Dec 02 07:24:02 eugene: your people are on the east coast... I was working with californians from London, 8 hour time difference Dec 02 07:24:36 Leeds: hehe... Dec 02 07:24:42 im surprised by it Dec 02 07:24:49 sometimes i dont think i hit the button, but i see the letter appear Dec 02 07:24:51 Leeds: 8 hours difference is ok.... folks on the east coast are 11-12 hours difference! Dec 02 07:25:11 so i tell my self not to worry about the click, just type and it comes out pretty decent Dec 02 07:25:15 * sparkle nods Dec 02 07:25:26 yeah, well... that's what you^H^H^Hwe get for living on the wrong side of the planet Dec 02 07:25:28 i miss the feel of my nokia 9300 Dec 02 07:26:02 Leeds: Leeds lol Dec 02 07:26:08 I had a nokia 5300. The G1 feels massive by comparison Dec 02 07:26:12 why did I type Leeds twice, I wonder. Dec 02 07:26:21 just feels so nice to type? Dec 02 07:26:24 the 9300 i couldn't really fit in my pocket Dec 02 07:26:29 the g1 is a lot easier though Dec 02 07:26:43 Leeds: bleh :P Dec 02 07:26:51 I wouldn't go back to the 5300 for anything. It was a great phone, but... nothing compared to the g1 Dec 02 07:26:51 but i had a 9500 in my purse for a while Dec 02 07:26:54 and that was a *brick* Dec 02 07:26:58 it was just tiny Dec 02 07:27:17 I don't carry a purse, so that would be a problem for me :) Dec 02 07:28:53 Has anyone found a decent rubber/silicone protector for the g1? All I've seen are those really crappy hard plastic shells that, even when ordered in black, still have sloppy white edging Dec 02 07:30:09 mm, how about a screen protector you could laminate to Dec 02 07:30:14 i'd like to use mine for astronomy Dec 02 07:30:19 and put a red film over it Dec 02 07:32:02 <_avatar> i use an invisible shield for the screen and it seems pretty heavy duty Dec 02 07:32:14 <_avatar> i don't have the one that covers the body of the phone, though. just the screen Dec 02 07:32:54 <_avatar> but it makes the screen look sorta crappy Dec 02 07:33:11 I thought about the full body clear-shield film, but that offers no shock/drop protection at all. Dec 02 07:33:28 so, sort of useless aside from light scratching Dec 02 07:33:48 <_avatar> yup, but it doesn't make your phone feel like a brick Dec 02 07:34:31 * sparkle shrugs Dec 02 07:34:34 it's a phone, not a ming vase Dec 02 07:35:24 very true sparkle, but... I will drop it eventually, and most likely on concrete somewhere while walking around the city. Dec 02 07:36:43 I'm not looking to shield it against missiles, just moderate bumps Dec 02 07:39:20 * sparkle nods Dec 02 07:39:38 my nokia 5190 fell out of a moving car Dec 02 07:39:40 at 40mph Dec 02 07:40:00 being a nokia, I'm betting it survived Dec 02 07:40:04 aside from the battery popping off Dec 02 07:40:11 and a couple scuffs it was perfect Dec 02 07:40:23 *nod* my 5300 was like that. Could take one hell of a beating. Dec 02 07:40:40 maybe that's why i laugh when they call bigger phones bricks now Dec 02 07:40:44 because compared with a bag phone Dec 02 07:40:49 anything at all is portable Dec 02 07:41:34 haha true Dec 02 07:42:33 reminds me of a clip from Louis CK on Conan Obrien.... talking about how things are awesome but no one's happy. "You're pissed because you have to wait 3 seconds for your phone... IT'S GOING TO SPACE!!!" Dec 02 07:43:19 hah Dec 02 07:43:30 true enough Dec 02 07:43:53 i can hold in my hand more computing power than a lab of systems i used to run Dec 02 07:43:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbIGbZ6gq_Y Dec 02 07:44:14 you can get 16GB of nonvolatile solid state storage smaller than a postage stamp Dec 02 07:44:19 bloody amazing Dec 02 07:45:04 The fact that I can ssh into my server from virtually anywhere... from my damn phone... while watching youtube and with someone waiting on hold... pretty incredible, but people still bitch. Dec 02 07:45:19 smaller than most fingernails! Dec 02 07:46:02 does anyone know if/how to use commands like /quote in ircbeta? Dec 02 07:51:37 anyone had success in keeping ssh connections open for long periods? Dec 02 07:51:48 when the phone blanks screen etc .. Dec 02 07:52:10 sparkle: what's even more amazing is the thought that microSDHC can get up to 128 gb Dec 02 07:52:24 mine's done OK on wifi, but not over 3G, G or E Dec 02 07:52:54 rubyonlinux: which terminal app are you using? Dec 02 07:53:16 Decavolt , using connectbot, even with wifi it does disconnect me after a while .. Dec 02 07:53:27 same one I have Dec 02 07:53:28 just to a local server, with TcpKeepAlive off Dec 02 07:53:44 IIRC wifi drops when the phone goes to sleep Dec 02 07:53:49 I haven't tested it for much longer than a few minutes though, so it's likely mine will do the same yours does Dec 02 07:53:55 I'll often wake my phone up to find it not connected Dec 02 07:54:23 ahh Gary|tp that makes sense, perhaps 3G will stay connected better in this case .. Dec 02 08:04:53 rubyonlinux: i use a script that wraps around ssh and screen Dec 02 08:05:09 seriously consider using screen in any event Dec 02 08:07:55 Does Nokia announce today symbian going open source? :> http://events.nokia.com/countdown/ Dec 02 08:08:08 7 minutes to go :P or Nokia + Android ;) Dec 02 08:09:56 anno^da_: they did that months ago Dec 02 08:10:08 oh, they announced it months ago, they didn't do it Dec 02 08:10:41 right thats what I meant Dec 02 08:10:44 they didnt do it Dec 02 08:11:24 But nothing has been leaked refering to the todays announcement Dec 02 08:12:11 But I dont think that it is something big. 9 AM o'clock in Germany is not that special for an special announcement Dec 02 08:12:37 first winmob phone? Dec 02 08:12:43 they have bought Palm? Dec 02 08:13:07 Yeah that could be. Dec 02 08:13:37 We will see in 2 minutes ;) Dec 02 08:14:24 1 min Dec 02 08:15:45 Are you able to click the link ? Dec 02 08:17:15 Great countdown :P Dec 02 08:17:58 I can load it, but there's nothing there Dec 02 08:18:23 hmm I cant load it with FF and Safari :P Dec 02 08:21:02 I can only see the reminder page where you can request reminders.. and requesting a reminder to mail gets me this: "This is to confirm that you’ve requested a reminder email from Nokia. We’ll send you a reminder 30 minutes before the event begins" Dec 02 08:21:40 is there supposed to be some kind of countdown clock somewhere or something? Dec 02 08:22:07 Well the countdown clock was there Dec 02 08:22:20 and it counted down till the end 5 minutes ago Dec 02 08:22:29 but nothing happened :D Dec 02 08:22:53 ah.. I disabled ad block and now I see the flash thingie at least but it's empty Dec 02 08:23:46 http://www.nokia.com/A4126603 I suspect Dec 02 08:23:48 that right mine is empty too as well now :D Dec 02 08:23:58 N97 Dec 02 08:24:27 Yeah could be Dec 02 08:24:45 "a large 3.5" touch display with a full QWERTY keyboard" - it's a slider Dec 02 08:25:09 32GB onboard... Dec 02 08:25:44 widgets, flash support... we'll get widgets sooner or later, I hope Dec 02 08:26:33 press embargo is gone, there are other sites reporting on it... blah blah Dec 02 08:26:38 haha well it is from the hardware side better than the G1 Dec 02 08:26:46 But the price is much higher Dec 02 08:27:03 and it is a Symbian :P Dec 02 08:27:43 3.5mm headset jack!!! Dec 02 08:28:01 :P Well yeah but I dont pay 520€ for a phone Dec 02 08:28:06 it's essentially the symbian/phone version of the N810, I think Dec 02 08:29:22 the G1 cost me way more than 520 :) Dec 02 08:29:29 Well ok lets get to breakfast. The only thing that the G1 would really need is the internal storage since 256 MB are much too less Dec 02 08:29:38 cost me slightly more Dec 02 08:29:38 tauno: in Germany? Dec 02 08:30:06 It coast me 380€ with all the shipping an taxes and duty Dec 02 08:31:51 anno^da_, nope, not in germany :) Dec 02 08:32:56 :-) Dec 02 08:33:05 So I'm having breakfast now. Dec 02 08:34:00 n97 is *identical* face size, couple of mm thinner than G1 Dec 02 08:34:53 A2DP included... etc. etc. Dec 02 08:35:09 it's not like I'm going to buy one :-) Dec 02 08:40:06 not to be a complainer, but you would think a team that won a quarter million dollars would at least get the app working that they designed Dec 02 08:40:29 ive wanted to use locale since i heard about it, way before the g1 launch and now i find it barely works :( Dec 02 08:41:09 their app is pretty dependent on how it interfaces with hardware, and weve only had the phone for a month Dec 02 08:42:37 erm.... arent you umd? Dec 02 08:42:58 no :P Dec 02 08:43:11 wow, wonder why i thought that :S Dec 02 08:46:55 i cant bring myself to unisntall it, even though it does nothign for me Dec 02 08:47:05 its like finding your hero doesnt exist :( Dec 02 08:47:06 lol Dec 02 08:47:42 true, i wish it did more, but many of the settings apis werent exposed until recently Dec 02 08:47:53 not more Dec 02 08:47:56 i just want locations to work Dec 02 08:47:59 thats all lol Dec 02 08:48:08 im sure theyve been keeping busy :) Dec 02 08:48:15 it cant tell the difference between locations at all, and always uses the default Dec 02 08:49:05 is is trying to only use gps, or does it support network locations too? Dec 02 08:49:14 i thought both Dec 02 08:49:20 but both work for me Dec 02 08:49:30 gps shows which bedroom im in :S Dec 02 08:49:50 and i made my "home" location about 15x the size of my house, so for some reason it doesnt even read the gps Dec 02 08:50:00 you don't have 20-something storeys above you, do you? Dec 02 08:50:05 nope Dec 02 08:50:09 1 story house Dec 02 08:50:18 like i said, my gps is VERY accurate at my house Dec 02 08:50:23 its about 4ft off Dec 02 08:50:47 (using satelite view in maps and andnav) Dec 02 08:51:46 hmm, is there any way to control the gc, maybe disable it for some time (like while you are doing a voip call) Dec 02 09:01:34 tric, System.gc() - Indicates to the virtual machine that it would be a good time to collect available memory. that's the only gc control thingie I found Dec 02 09:13:17 doubt you really want to disable the gc Dec 02 09:13:25 that could be very very bad Dec 02 09:13:51 damm: if you are careful about object allocation while its off it can be incredibly handy Dec 02 09:14:07 and you might not even have it off for long; just enough to make the process more deterministic Dec 02 09:14:15 you can gc right /after/ you buffer some audio to the driver, for example Dec 02 09:14:25 rather than accidentally trigger a gc right as you do Dec 02 09:14:36 tric: you don't want to disable a gc if your goal is low latency Dec 02 09:14:42 you may want to do more frequent gc's Dec 02 09:14:59 at least that's my experience with other jvms Dec 02 09:15:18 * sparkle nods at saurik Dec 02 09:16:50 yes, more frequent would spread the load out Dec 02 09:16:57 well, and up the overhead Dec 02 09:17:19 running a GC to get one object isn't worth it ;P Dec 02 09:17:27 disabling it completely would cause problems, and doing it less often would cause them to increase load Dec 02 09:17:34 and seriously, if you are careful, you might be able to run and generate countable objects per /second/ Dec 02 09:17:45 (if you are just moving data around, you can preallocate pools of enough objects and just move them around) Dec 02 09:18:48 lol, how do i find out my phone number :S Dec 02 09:18:54 under settings>about its blank :S Dec 02 09:19:02 lol Dec 02 09:19:04 DarkriftX: call someone, and check caller id Dec 02 09:19:04 dont wanna call the house phone lol, its late Dec 02 09:19:14 damn Dec 02 09:19:16 (feel free to call me ;P) Dec 02 09:19:30 yeah, go ahead and call me (well, my GC number lol) Dec 02 09:19:31 why would it be blank? Dec 02 09:19:38 no idea Dec 02 09:19:44 GC == garbage collected? ;P Dec 02 09:19:44 everyone elses show up? Dec 02 09:19:51 952-856-7276 Dec 02 09:20:00 saurik: grand central :P Dec 02 09:20:06 mine does Dec 02 09:20:24 sparkle: hmm, that might be an idea. atm im havin gc run for 100ms, so there are big jitter every time Dec 02 09:21:01 DarkriftX: does Network show up as T-Mobile? Dec 02 09:21:01 * saurik (actually has his personal cell phone number on his website, a single click away from the front screen of an application (cydia) that has half a million users... its drastically changed the way he uses his phone) Dec 02 09:21:06 also, call damn you :P Dec 02 09:21:08 yes Dec 02 09:21:29 i called, but do you have to "state your name after the tone" ? Dec 02 09:21:30 lol Dec 02 09:21:36 trying to stay quiet, everyone is sleeping Dec 02 09:21:38 they probably need to increase the heap space Dec 02 09:21:44 saurik, don't get me wrong... but that's very idealistic. I realize it's me, however I don't like the idea of developers disabling the gc for their 'app'. Dec 02 09:21:51 mm Dec 02 09:21:57 DarkriftX: you don't need to talk or anything :P Dec 02 09:22:02 i called Dec 02 09:22:09 oh, hmm Dec 02 09:22:14 i have a work cell # that thousands of people have - the price of working for a cell co :p Dec 02 09:22:21 it told me to "state your name after the tone" Dec 02 09:22:31 check PM Dec 02 09:22:34 but my private cell i block caller id by default Dec 02 09:22:40 and it highlights a bug in android Dec 02 09:22:44 Damm: for me, if it means the difference between having a truly awesome application and not, sure, they can disable the GC ;P Dec 02 09:22:46 ty :) Dec 02 09:22:58 np :) Dec 02 09:23:10 it's probably just GC call screening lol Dec 02 09:23:15 like - if you have phone numbers in your contacts list prefixed by *31# Dec 02 09:23:15 don'tremember setting that up Dec 02 09:23:21 it strips them off if you redial Dec 02 09:23:24 messed up :p Dec 02 09:23:45 or at least have the ability to dynamically free and allocate your own objects ala c++ :P Dec 02 09:24:18 sparkle: btw, people (like me) who use a voicemail service that uses ANI instead of caller ID get those numbers (in case you cared) Dec 02 10:10:32 hey guys, anyone know of any good guides for developing/debugging the SDK? Im trying to add some changes to the SDK and Im having trouble debugging the modified SDK Dec 02 10:11:01 also when i try and do 'adb sync' to push my changes to the device I get an error saying that its a read-only file system. Dec 02 10:12:55 chobomuffin: what are you trying to sync? (if you are trying to modify something in /system you need root access to the device, so you can't do it on a G1 unless you exploited the RC<30 bug) Dec 02 10:13:33 saurik, this is just on my emulator, I don't have a physical phone Dec 02 10:15:15 ah, sorry, you said "to the device" ;P Dec 02 10:15:20 * saurik (then has no clue) Dec 02 10:16:21 yeah, sorry to mislead you, but in its mind its still a device :) Dec 02 10:16:54 saurik, also have you had much experience debugging changes that you have made to the SDK? Dec 02 11:08:15 I want to show an indeterminate progress bar while my activity loads some info from a web feed. I have got it to show the circular progress bar, however it doesn't spin. It just stays still until the content loads, before disappearing. Do I have to load this into some sort of thread? Right now, I;m simply using: requestWindowFeature(Window.FEATURE_PROGRESS); requestWindowFeature(Window.FEATURE_INDETERMINATE_PROGRESS); and setProg Dec 02 11:33:11 Also, I have a list view which contains an a to z ordered list of items. In the "contacts" list view (that comes with the phone) you can quickly scroll to a particular letter. How is this implemented? Is it a custom component, or an option? Dec 02 12:15:23 wow dgAway seems to be a hit Dec 02 12:24:48 Kizoomer121, did you solve the indeterminate progress problem already? Dec 02 12:25:35 also for the scrolling, you might check git repo: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/apps/Contacts.git;a=commit;h=5dc3b4f80f38c0d48601f66c2c0e551474a7f8ad Dec 02 12:27:48 grr at market! Dec 02 12:30:20 Kizoomer121, well anyway for the progressbar, i only call requestWindowFeature(Window.FEATURE_INDETERMINATE_PROGRESS); in onCreate() and then setProgressBarIndeterminateVisibility(true); (although this didn't work when called in onCreate() but "somewhere" else) Dec 02 12:52:26 who had a gripe about the market intent yesterday? Dec 02 13:01:21 #android-dev Dec 02 14:19:38 hi there, i'm trying to download the source by 'repo sync' but it seems the progress is sooo slow and gving no response (if not yet disconnected..) is it possible for me to download the source by some other means else, say, downloading it as a tarball? thanks Dec 02 14:22:08 there? Dec 02 14:28:38 The G1 is the best phone ever Dec 02 14:35:27 Torikun: you must be new to phones Dec 02 14:35:37 lol no Dec 02 14:35:41 Torikun: nice and expensive for us loyal customers Dec 02 14:35:43 I was using the Openmoko Dec 02 14:35:57 and it was horrible...had to upgrade to G1 Dec 02 14:36:04 oh. well yah. Dec 02 14:36:12 i've got an old motorolla startac that is better than openmoko Dec 02 14:37:31 OpenMoko is wretched Dec 02 14:37:57 i love g1 with the dgApps Dec 02 14:38:16 When will flash be available Dec 02 14:38:50 it be cool to watch hulu on it Dec 02 14:39:19 whoops. pownce is shutting down. Dec 02 14:41:50 How can I transfer/run my java apps on the android Dec 02 14:43:14 hello Dec 02 14:43:35 hey bol Dec 02 14:45:26 morning Dec 02 14:45:40 Torikun: what sort of apps? Dec 02 14:45:51 I made aGrocery list app Dec 02 14:45:54 in Java Dec 02 14:46:00 there is apparently a j2me app runner. No idea if it works well or not Dec 02 14:46:14 http://rusher.webhop.org/wordpress/?p=246 Dec 02 14:46:25 Torikun: there is an sdk for Android Dec 02 14:47:08 is it easy as making regular java apps? Dec 02 14:47:11 blau: dgApps? Dec 02 14:47:31 torikun port them over? Dec 02 14:47:34 yup Dec 02 14:47:38 oh i was scrolled up Dec 02 14:47:43 ok with the droidftp client Dec 02 14:47:48 how can i download whole directories Dec 02 14:47:53 and where does it download the files Dec 02 14:48:08 oh ok to "downloads" Dec 02 14:48:09 haha Dec 02 14:48:16 now if i could just dl dirs Dec 02 14:50:35 ok i am back Dec 02 14:51:07 good bol Dec 02 14:52:45 why, oh why does the SDK not support some kind of "route" thingie for the MapView.. it's not that much fun to draw routes manually and google could have provided it easily I guess.. since they already have it implemented :) Dec 02 14:53:13 tauno: do you just want your mapping program handed to you on a platter? : P Dec 02 14:53:47 cool Dec 02 14:53:57 vol, yes, that would be great, thanks! Dec 02 14:54:12 argh i wish there was a way to get internet over USB instead of WiFi Dec 02 14:54:23 anyone used jinzora? Dec 02 14:54:38 im wanting to know if streamfurious will play m3u's from jinzora Dec 02 14:54:39 vol, currently everyone is inventing the wheel all over again.. kind of.. pointless Dec 02 14:54:58 google map doesnt support routing even on desktops Dec 02 14:55:02 does it? Dec 02 14:55:13 it does on android Dec 02 14:55:25 my impression was that they dont want people using it for gps, isnt that forbidden in the TOS Dec 02 14:55:46 for "gps" meaning personal navigation, or meaning using the gps signal? Dec 02 14:55:54 personal navigation Dec 02 14:55:57 I do not want it to be "live route" using the gps or whatever.. just a route from point A to point B :) Dec 02 14:56:21 I'm wondering when someone's going to put mapping on SD and not require a connection to the network. Dec 02 14:56:53 ..and they have that feature in their code.. so it's only a matter of them making it public AFAIK.. it's just that they won't Dec 02 14:57:15 kslater: probably sooner than you think. Dec 02 14:57:29 garmin (I think) made one of the first "this is how you use the gps mapping stuff" tutorials for android Dec 02 14:57:55 bring it on. I'll get out the CC. Dec 02 14:58:09 "You must not use the Service or Content with any products, systems, or applications for or in connection with (a) real time navigation or route guidance based on position input from a sensor (including but not limited to any visual or audible turn-byturn route guidance); or (b) any systems or functions for automatic or autonomous control of vehicle behavior; or (c) dispatch, fleet management, business asset tracking, or similar enterp Dec 02 14:58:37 DJTachyon: whats that from? Dec 02 14:58:56 I don't want realtime routing/directions.. just a static routing thing like they have in the Maps app (look at the "directions" menu) Dec 02 14:59:02 http://code.google.com/android/maps-api-tos.pdf Dec 02 14:59:08 :P Dec 02 14:59:35 DJTachyon: that's for the Map API stuff though, right? Dec 02 14:59:36 Section 8.7 Dec 02 14:59:43 yeah Dec 02 14:59:45 most PND makers have their own interfaces Dec 02 14:59:46 on android Dec 02 14:59:47 so does that mean GOOG is going to deliver that functionality? Dec 02 14:59:51 maybe Dec 02 14:59:56 very doubtful Dec 02 14:59:58 or maybe has to do with TeleAtlas Dec 02 15:00:03 it means they don't want lawsuits : P Dec 02 15:00:19 because teleatlas provides Google and many other companies with map data Dec 02 15:00:22 the same reason you see legalese saying "You cannot use this as part of a nuclear power plant" Dec 02 15:00:23 they probably inherited those terms from teleatlas Dec 02 15:00:47 still no apps from sd? Dec 02 15:00:48 and providing a free GPS system may piss off all of teleatlas' other customers Dec 02 15:00:55 d0nets: nope Dec 02 15:00:58 i have 16 gigs of storage and i cant use it to store apps Dec 02 15:01:25 an APK swapping program would be good for you d0nets Dec 02 15:01:44 hey kslater Dec 02 15:01:50 didnt you join my project? Dec 02 15:01:53 swapping? Dec 02 15:01:57 i think the guy that made the java tuner knew you Dec 02 15:02:10 d0nets: no apps on sd yesterday, no apps on sd today. check the roadmap, then come back and ask again when its listed there. Dec 02 15:02:23 d0nets: yes I contacted him, and no I don't think I did ever join your project Dec 02 15:02:40 oh Dec 02 15:02:48 any one developing opensource? Dec 02 15:03:05 i call lies Dec 02 15:03:12 blau: some sort of utility to help install an app sitting on the SD card and optionally remove something big to make space. Dec 02 15:03:15 k stands for kevin correct? Dec 02 15:03:26 indeed it does Dec 02 15:03:29 i didnt mean officially joined it Dec 02 15:03:33 as in helping Dec 02 15:03:36 maybe I did join and forgot. Doh! Dec 02 15:03:41 but you are on the code.google.com page Dec 02 15:03:49 http://code.google.com/p/tunedroid Dec 02 15:03:50 klaster: that would be nice, but android kills app data when you uninstall Dec 02 15:04:12 no disrepect intended d0nets Dec 02 15:04:26 just lack of time right now as I try to roll out a couple of web apps Dec 02 15:04:37 i still need low-level pitch bending support from the Audio API :P Dec 02 15:04:38 yea i understand Dec 02 15:04:44 Christmas time I'll hack on it some I hope Dec 02 15:04:56 yea im just now having some free time Dec 02 15:04:56 Aren't there a couple of "install apk from sdcard" apps already? Dec 02 15:05:04 was running the (Swing) java app in the car the other day Dec 02 15:05:05 now i only have finals to look towards Dec 02 15:05:08 so things are slowing down Dec 02 15:05:10 engine was a B$ Dec 02 15:05:12 vol: yes Dec 02 15:05:14 B# Dec 02 15:05:15 sorry Dec 02 15:05:56 b#?? Dec 02 15:06:01 anyone know the peson that created the ftp client? Dec 02 15:06:09 we need to be able to download full directories Dec 02 15:06:13 btw, is there an sftp client Dec 02 15:06:14 yeah, it made a guitar b# or sometimes an A note Dec 02 15:06:23 because if so I would touch my naughty bits to it Dec 02 15:06:24 was interesting Dec 02 15:06:30 vol yea i think Dec 02 15:06:36 orly Dec 02 15:06:39 droidftp Dec 02 15:06:57 kind of surprised connectbot or whatever it's called doesn't have it as a plugin of sorts Dec 02 15:07:44 when are they gonna finish the vnc app? Dec 02 15:08:03 boo, droidftp is ftp only Dec 02 15:08:04 not sftp Dec 02 15:08:11 still better than nothing... Dec 02 15:08:11 VNC is for people who can't use SSH. Dec 02 15:08:12 yeah, no use to me Dec 02 15:08:20 i use ssh Dec 02 15:08:31 I meant ftp vs sftp Dec 02 15:08:33 but ttuttle its nice to vnc Dec 02 15:08:40 I have no servers that expose ftp Dec 02 15:08:46 for instance i use sabnzbd Dec 02 15:08:53 so when i want to download something at home , remotely Dec 02 15:09:02 i just open vnc, open firefox Dec 02 15:09:08 go to newzbin, and download the nzb, Dec 02 15:09:12 everything else is taken care of Dec 02 15:10:46 I'm surprised that nobody has come up with a solution that would allow to swap apps in and out of the SD card (yet). Dec 02 15:11:14 jbq: there's an echo in here ;-) Dec 02 15:11:21 lol Dec 02 15:11:39 well, installing apps isn't hard Dec 02 15:11:51 uninstalling them isn't hard either Dec 02 15:12:02 but copying them from /data to the sdcard is, because of permissions issues Dec 02 15:12:06 No, seriously, lots of people are asking for it, and it doesn't sound like it's a hard problem to solve (unlike being able to run apps from the SD card, which is hard). Dec 02 15:12:07 at least from what I understand Dec 02 15:12:28 the trick would be to preserve the data from the app Dec 02 15:12:38 just run them under the same UID. Dec 02 15:12:42 if that gets whacked during uninstall (which would make sense) Dec 02 15:12:44 preserve the data, and prevent people from being able to just copy the apk from their phone to their computer Dec 02 15:12:55 (and have a backup app under that UID that copies the data in and out of the SD card). Dec 02 15:13:00 which would be difficult indeed, you would probably need to have some sort of encryption Dec 02 15:13:23 :) Dec 02 15:13:40 FWIW, I think that there's somewhere some support to uninstall an app without deleting its data. That'd be useful for the larger games. Dec 02 15:14:00 I don't know whether that's available programmatically. Dec 02 15:15:04 But it you could hack an apk, re-write its manifest to use a shared UID with the swapper app, and re-sign it with the same signature as the swapper app, the swapper could access that app's data. Dec 02 15:15:35 (yes, that's evil) Dec 02 15:15:42 Hey SanMeHat .. have you tried QR Contact Scanning? Dec 02 15:15:49 is there any documentation for how phone states change? Dec 02 15:15:55 DJTachyon: no why? Dec 02 15:16:01 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/PhoneStateListener.html besides hat Dec 02 15:16:03 its cool! :) Dec 02 15:16:11 haha Dec 02 15:16:18 i dont meet many people Dec 02 15:16:29 everyone i know is already in my contacts :) Dec 02 15:16:30 http://www.djtachyon.com/android/TestQRContact.png Dec 02 15:16:31 like incoming number is valid when the phone state changes to idle from ringing Dec 02 15:16:32 try that Dec 02 15:16:46 but its blank when going from off hook to idle Dec 02 15:17:51 JesusFreke1: you test that code yet? Dec 02 15:18:28 and im still having problems unregistering and registering phonestatelisteners Dec 02 15:19:23 so Dec 02 15:19:26 rarrr Dec 02 15:19:28 i finally had my phone not last 24hours Dec 02 15:19:38 maybe 18 hours max Dec 02 15:20:31 >_< Dec 02 15:20:31 Damm: is that cuz you turned it on? :) Dec 02 15:20:39 How can I determine the size of a File Dec 02 15:20:46 why is there not a method for this Dec 02 15:21:10 Disconnect, nah, roughly 45 pages via nagios Dec 02 15:21:26 ah Dec 02 15:22:10 aparently AOL turned us on... so we got 4x the traffic we were used to Dec 02 15:22:13 and a bit unprepared Dec 02 15:22:38 doh Dec 02 15:23:06 vol: have you tried using java.io.File? Dec 02 15:23:29 spent 3hours at home working on crap Dec 02 15:23:31 blount: .... Dec 02 15:23:34 when i coulda been sleeping Dec 02 15:23:44 you'll notice I capitalized File Dec 02 15:24:04 anyway, yes, I am using java.io.File Dec 02 15:24:09 I don't see anything for size in there Dec 02 15:24:20 the android version is slightly different than the sun java version Dec 02 15:24:20 length() Dec 02 15:24:28 oh ffs I'm an idiot Dec 02 15:24:29 thank you Dec 02 15:24:51 np Dec 02 15:28:47 hey Dec 02 15:28:51 apps from SD? Dec 02 15:28:52 http://pastebin.ca/index.php Dec 02 15:28:59 d0nets, ... smooth Dec 02 15:29:17 wrong link sorry Dec 02 15:29:18 http://pastebin.ca/1273613 Dec 02 15:29:41 thats not news. Dec 02 15:29:57 for that matter, you can just symlink it. (look on xtc-dev forums) Dec 02 15:30:14 the problem is making it reliable. and repeatable. and behave as expected when you want to remove the card. Dec 02 15:30:16 Disconnect, I tried to symlink it on rc29... and it gave me an error Dec 02 15:30:25 or when you plug into usb and it unmounts Dec 02 15:31:02 yep Dec 02 15:31:08 and that's a bummer Dec 02 15:31:14 yup, Disconnect has it right, having an appropriately secure filesystem on the SD is only part of the solution (an essential part, of course, but there's a lot more to be solved). Dec 02 15:32:25 ..do I think the g1 should have better allocated the internal flash? absolutely. (and maybe provided more..) and could this have been solved pre-release? yes - if the sd card is under the battery (not as common as it used to be but not uncommon) or pull the nokia "closing all apps before unmount" method.. Dec 02 15:32:32 i can solve it! Dec 02 15:32:50 have the next phone not have a ridiculous small amount of intenral memory Dec 02 15:32:54 and dont fill it up stupidly Dec 02 15:32:58 but lots of things could/should have been solved before release. :/ from here though, it'd be nice if the work and discussions were happening in public instead of in hallways Dec 02 15:33:14 * Disconnect tried to join in, the receptionist wouldn't let him wander around aimlessly looking for android conversations Dec 02 15:33:24 disc: you cant rely on hardware to solve software issues Dec 02 15:33:44 what would happen when the next phone cant fit an sd card under the battery Dec 02 15:34:18 sure you can - the sw issue is "the card can be removed without software notification" the answer that a lot of devices take is "like hell it can, you have to turn off the unit to remove it" .. same as for sim cards. Dec 02 15:34:40 Disconnect: how would you have partitioned the G1's flash differently? Dec 02 15:34:55 its not as common as it used to be but i remember when my 9300i was "amazing" because I could live-swap cards and all it did was close the apps. Dec 02 15:34:58 the g1 seems to be filling up all willy nilly Dec 02 15:35:10 g1 is the best 400 bucks I spent Dec 02 15:35:11 lol Dec 02 15:35:25 im back down to 8 megs Dec 02 15:35:25 Disconnect: The G1 can live swap cards :) Dec 02 15:35:44 SanMehat: keep reading back, thats got nothing to do with my point.. Dec 02 15:35:50 sanmehat i think hes referring to a card with an ext partition Dec 02 15:35:57 with your apps on it Dec 02 15:35:58 Disconnect: i know. Dec 02 15:36:09 i wish the g1 would automount when connecting to a computer again, so i could use it as a bootable linux partition Dec 02 15:36:27 that would be nice Dec 02 15:36:30 have ubuntu on it Dec 02 15:36:41 or twatever distro i suppose Dec 02 15:36:52 jbq: dump cache since nothing uses it.. add it to data. lemme see what hte map is and i can give more examples, but since is fixed at this point its kinda a moot discussion. Dec 02 15:36:53 blau: there were too many issues with cards getting corrupted due to host computers which auto-mount and write things to the card Dec 02 15:37:10 Disconnect: /cache is used by OTA updates, that can't be removed. Dec 02 15:37:20 san: was that a g1 issue, or issue with android? Dec 02 15:37:24 jbq, unless you don't allow OTA's Dec 02 15:37:25 :) Dec 02 15:37:32 Damm: not an option for the G1. Dec 02 15:37:46 eh? Dec 02 15:38:03 this channel really needs a Frequently Offered Clever Suggestions list Dec 02 15:38:14 !suggest beer Dec 02 15:38:16 jbq, and why not? Dec 02 15:38:29 Damm: because that's a non-waivable requirement Dec 02 15:38:44 Damm: there are carrier requirements in place Dec 02 15:39:02 jbq, oh. I thought you meant if you had rooted your device you could not disable OTA's Dec 02 15:39:13 nokia and apple and bb all get along with computer-driven upgrades. but thats fine - do it right. stage OTA upgrades through ram. quiesce the flash partition and write/verify it, then reboot. Dec 02 15:39:22 yeah there is always carrier requirements in place... and sometimes that's what makes it more disgusting Dec 02 15:39:39 the closer you get to a 'open' phone, the further away you really get it seems. Dec 02 15:39:41 according to the app manager i have about 58 megs of apps installed Dec 02 15:39:46 and only 8 megs of space left Dec 02 15:39:49 Damm: well, it's not unreasonable that they can set the requirements for the devices that they sell and support. Dec 02 15:39:57 jbq, correct. Dec 02 15:40:02 wtf Dec 02 15:40:11 jbq, let me know if google ever sells a device unlocked so we can do what we want with it :) Dec 02 15:40:16 it'd be well worth the money to me. Dec 02 15:40:49 * Damm realizes hell will freeze over first, but I can hope. Dec 02 15:41:05 must be a tough fence for google, stable for the laymen on one side and open for the enthusiasts on the other Dec 02 15:41:07 Damm: if that ever happens, I'm sure that someone will notice and that you'll hear about it through other channels. Dec 02 15:41:22 jbq, more then likely. Dec 02 15:41:28 * Damm detaches Dec 02 15:41:29 we will see an open phone Dec 02 15:41:29 * Damm & Dec 02 15:41:31 stop worrying Dec 02 15:41:46 whether openly open or open through some other method Dec 02 15:41:52 youll be able to do what you want eventually Dec 02 15:42:14 I can see that there's some activity around the OpenMoko devices. Dec 02 15:42:40 how much internal pphone storage does a g1 have to start with Dec 02 15:42:47 blau: 256MB Dec 02 15:42:47 like if i went and purchase one today Dec 02 15:42:52 how much would i see available Dec 02 15:43:02 Lemme see Dec 02 15:43:02 blau: 70 megs Dec 02 15:43:06 maximum Dec 02 15:43:13 70 megs you can use to install things Dec 02 15:43:18 256 total (used by other things) Dec 02 15:43:20 75 i guess Dec 02 15:43:23 ish! Dec 02 15:43:26 /data: 76544K total, 65464K used, 11080K available (block size 4096) Dec 02 15:43:34 about 75MB, yeah. Dec 02 15:43:45 so 58 megs of installed crap and 8 megs free actually isnt so bad Dec 02 15:43:53 until you start web browsing (cache on /data) or using the appstore (cache on /data) or ... etc. Dec 02 15:44:03 i just had to blow away bansai blast .. @ 7MB Dec 02 15:44:09 bonsai blast is ginormous for what it offers Dec 02 15:44:12 blau: the 58 megs includes app data, apps, etc etc. so of course it adds up :) Dec 02 15:44:21 vol: bonsai blast is like crack for me Dec 02 15:44:37 i blew away most of my games until they come up with something to store their resources on sd card Dec 02 15:45:00 market keeps getting bigger grrr Dec 02 15:45:02 17 megs now Dec 02 15:45:25 what? Dec 02 15:45:27 need to blow away neocore next Dec 02 15:45:31 why does it need 17 megs Dec 02 15:45:40 blau: have you tried blowing away its data? It's *supposed* to be safe. No guarantees, YMMV. Dec 02 15:45:56 vol: it caches things a bit too aggressively (that's an understatement). Dec 02 15:46:12 no option to blow away its data Dec 02 15:46:25 that i know of at least Dec 02 15:47:46 ewww you might be right :( Dec 02 15:48:21 yah market has no 'clear defaults' or remove data Dec 02 15:48:29 someone donated 5 bucks to me for my latest app yay Dec 02 15:48:38 oh and we came up with a couple more good reasons to be able to kill apps. Dec 02 15:49:04 apps that set a phonestatelistener can clutter up! Dec 02 15:49:05 I don't even know how an app can mark itself as "don't allow users to clear my data". Dec 02 15:49:14 market was all screwed up last night. when it came back it still took a ton of work to get the breakage uncached. killing it to start over would have been perfect. Dec 02 15:49:28 jbq: the same way it does a lot of stuff. by being closed and using proprietary apis. :/ Dec 02 15:49:29 blau: are there games that actually saves on your storage card? Dec 02 15:49:41 hiro: no but there should be! Dec 02 15:49:52 my first game will Dec 02 15:49:52 blau: seriously... my phone is lagging now Dec 02 15:49:55 There are some apps that do. Dec 02 15:50:05 aTwitter has settings for you to pick a cache location Dec 02 15:50:24 Disconnect: well, it depends on your point of view. From an SDK point of view, yes, they're unavailable. From a device manufacturer's point of view, they're available. Dec 02 15:50:25 I wish someone makes an app that will let users move stuff to their storage Dec 02 15:50:35 Disconnect: but your point is valid. Dec 02 15:51:01 jbq: "open platform" remember? that makes everyone with source and desire to port into "a device manufacturer". Dec 02 15:51:10 anyway :) Dec 02 15:52:36 Anyway, that issue has been discussed already, both internally and externally, and I know that there's a design that'd do the trick and allow non-system apps to share a codepath with market. Dec 02 15:53:04 as far as flash, you could easily do 128/128 split, use compressed updates and stage it into ram. Dec 02 15:53:41 well, the radio part isn't something that we can shrink, so it's not quite 128/128. Dec 02 15:54:13 100/100 tho. or (gasp) shrink system and trust your security policy. 32/128 Dec 02 15:54:18 staging stuff into RAM is really hard if you want to do it transparently, so at this point we're not talking about modifying the partition scheme, we're talking about really changing the way Android works. Dec 02 15:54:37 if the security policy works and the initial recovery/loader works, /system isn't needed. Dec 02 15:54:40 /system is actually to small already :( Dec 02 15:55:09 uh, what do you mean "/system isn't needed"? Dec 02 15:55:16 i think so too but it doesn't need to be there at all. Dec 02 15:55:28 just that. store dalvik and core OS on it, put -everything- else into /data Dec 02 15:55:46 Disconnect: factory reset is also a non-waivable requirement. Dec 02 15:56:02 So any great Android blogs I should subscribe to? User and/or developer oriented. Dec 02 15:56:11 re Dec 02 15:56:13 The G1 is finally here in Germany :D Dec 02 15:56:15 Could someone tell me how long it takes to get the unlock code? (from the guys that sell the codes) Dec 02 15:56:17 damnit stupid irc handling / as a command :/ Dec 02 15:56:34 anno^da_: I wasn't aware there were official unlock code sales channels? Dec 02 15:56:55 /data/system and /data/apps .. /data/system is your stuff (and btw, why not use cramfs/etc if you have ot do a static/separate system partition??) and /data/apps is everything else. factory reset is rm -rf /data/apps Dec 02 15:57:16 vol: where do you see "official"? Dec 02 15:57:17 /say /whatever Dec 02 15:57:20 yah Dec 02 15:57:23 Nafai: check android-discuss, android-beginners and android-developers here: http://code.google.com/android/groups.html Dec 02 15:57:24 Disconnect: I guess I don't? Dec 02 15:57:25 or just lead with a space Dec 02 15:57:25 vol: http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com/ Dec 02 15:57:33 jbq: Thanks! Dec 02 15:57:34 it isnt official ;) Dec 02 15:57:44 that's icky :] then you have a superfluous space Dec 02 15:57:48 jbq: I'm getting my G1 today :) Dec 02 15:57:51 Nafai: anddev.org Dec 02 15:57:56 for developement Dec 02 15:58:15 in xchat // will do it too. //whatever Dec 02 15:58:16 androidguys.com <- blog Dec 02 15:58:16 wastrel: i'll sell you a bunch of spaces, wholesale pricing. Dec 02 15:58:24 androidcommunity.com <- blog Dec 02 15:58:55 Disconnect: wouldn't work, because /data might be full already when you try to do an OTA update that tries to install system apps that take more space (plus I don't quite see how that takes less space overall). Dec 02 15:59:23 why phone state listeners instead of actions Dec 02 16:06:04 jbq: a tiny /system on cramfs will gain some space. (even a larger cramfs or similar will probably gain over rewritable/changable filesystems). staging through ram is easy enough - do it transparently with tmpfs if needed. but i don't see any of this changing (at least, not on tmob roms) so its not really worth arguing about. i will maintain that it seems to be somewhat of a first-effort phone though Dec 02 16:06:39 seems like there are a lot of lessons in the nokia/sony-er/apple/bb camps that are missing here. but i can't get into hallway discussions over the past year or two, so... :) Dec 02 16:08:09 I agree that there are probably software options that would allow a different partition scheme (and I'm not qualified to discuss them in detail). My question was strictly about the partition scheme given the current architecture. Dec 02 16:11:38 you could reserve half the cache and give it over to app storage. stage it into flash via tmpfs. if a compressed OTA update is larger than that, split it into two releases. or (since /system is rewritable anyway) let it do incremental updates as it goes, 1 app/module at a time. (that requires more testing - not so far proving to be a strong area for android :/ - but it gains a lot of reliability in the end, and the ability to do more point releases) Dec 02 16:11:53 compressed OTA patch update I mean. not the full. Dec 02 16:12:36 there's really no reason, in the current system, that I can't go into the secret-closed-market and install a new official email app with the update/delete bugfix Dec 02 16:12:44 splitting the OTA would be really tricky, since you'd have to download the second part while the system is in a half-and-half state. Dec 02 16:13:45 i mean pull changes into two pieces. eg RC31 patches email and apps, RC32 patches webkit again and dalvik, both compress (individually) to 32M or whatever. Dec 02 16:13:59 trusting the phone to have net access in the middle of flashing seems unwise :) Dec 02 16:14:07 Disconnect: there's a non-waivable requirement to be able to do one-step non-incremental updates. Dec 02 16:17:40 you have a rewritable /system and 192 megs of ram. dl the compressed update to tmpfs, drop down to maint mode, let init exec an updater which moves the data to /system, verify, reboot. no need for /cache at all. Dec 02 16:18:42 only a hare more complex with a small cramfs /system and large /data because you need to mount recovery, change the root to it, umount system, quiesce it, flash it, then flip root back Dec 02 16:18:45 but that's not just a change in the partitioning scheme. Dec 02 16:18:55 If you feel that you can write that code, feel free. Really. Dec 02 16:19:09 (sounds messier than it is - its a 10 year tested process in other embedded arm linux archs) Dec 02 16:19:30 BTW, you also need to deal with what happens when the user pulls the battery in the middle of writing /system. Dec 02 16:19:43 (so you can't have any of your recovery system live there) Dec 02 16:19:45 get me an engineering bootloader so i can unbrick it and i'll happily work on that. (and i'm serious, its a lot more of where my experience is than java is..) Dec 02 16:20:23 right now i can brick it by starting a flash and pulling the battery at just the right time. there's no change. Dec 02 16:20:58 A whole lot of that should work just fine on the emulator (since you don't need to reboot into a different partition). Dec 02 16:25:29 simple change over to cramfs is probably gonna save a bunch by itself, although i don't think the update method has any way to take advantage of that (other than giving more space to system apps of course) Dec 02 16:29:26 <_zippy|sleep> hmm Dec 02 16:37:51 anno^da_: Thanks for the links Dec 02 16:41:12 <_zippy> hmmm anyone ever tried to install vending.apk on the emulator? Dec 02 16:41:39 _zippy: Yes. It didn't work for me. Dec 02 16:41:51 <_zippy> Failure [-11] ? Dec 02 16:42:06 I forget. Dec 02 16:42:11 <_zippy> hmmm just odd that the package doesn't have a dalvik-executable Dec 02 16:42:59 where did you get this? Dec 02 16:43:18 Disconnect: does cramfs work on top of a NAND flash (as opposed to a block device)? Dec 02 16:43:43 cramfs is not writable, and works great on flash. designed for that originally istr. Dec 02 16:43:48 <_zippy> tauno: where did i get vending.apk? Dec 02 16:43:55 _zippy, y Dec 02 16:44:03 <_zippy> tauno: g1 device, rooted Dec 02 16:44:11 the non-writable part kinda kills the ability to do incremental updates, though. Dec 02 16:44:15 * ttuttle got it with "adb pull" ;) Dec 02 16:44:33 <_zippy> ;) that'd work too Dec 02 16:44:39 and I was thinking that it's a cool new app on the market.. doh Dec 02 16:45:05 <_zippy> lol Dec 02 16:45:31 <_zippy> i wonder if it runs off the framework? Dec 02 16:45:35 <_zippy> since not dex file? Dec 02 16:45:44 what is it supposed to be anyway? Dec 02 16:45:56 <_zippy> vending.apk has the files for the "market" Dec 02 16:46:01 I think it'd make more sense to make a derivative of yaffs2 that'd deflate the files individually. Dec 02 16:46:32 _zippy, aah.. that's where the name comes from :) Dec 02 16:46:36 The major problem with zlib is that random access is impractically slow, and random access is really important when mmaping files. Dec 02 16:47:00 jbq: its really one or the other - incremental updates (not this 'patch' mess but proper bundled packages) or storage efficiency. if you need the space in /system then you haven't got much choice - make what is there now smaller, and (assuming the obvious is covered already) that means a new fs Dec 02 16:47:24 can't cramfs be used as an image on an existing partition (like some distros use it for the initrd images) - so you could binary diff it if you really wanted to live on the wild side with incremental updates :O Dec 02 16:47:46 <_zippy> tauno: yessum :D Dec 02 16:48:10 Disconnect: incremental updates matter more. Dec 02 16:48:19 (for bandwidth efficiency) Dec 02 16:48:35 Those same incremental updates that worked oh-so-well on even non-rooted G1's last time? Dec 02 16:48:42 RyeBrye: yes technically, but the chances of it doing reasonable changes that way are slim Dec 02 16:48:58 i.e. those "Oh, shit, my phone wont boot anymore what do I do" incremental updates? Dec 02 16:55:29 Disconnect, the incremental update fucked me... when going to RC30 Dec 02 16:55:35 sweet Dec 02 16:57:18 had to get the full update Dec 02 16:57:25 thats your reminder to go to rc29 and use jf's rc30 :) Dec 02 16:57:29 meh my connection sucks at work. Dec 02 16:57:37 Disconnect, can't go back Dec 02 16:57:38 or I would Dec 02 16:57:48 shoulda done it when it got hosed up Dec 02 16:57:57 jf's wasn't out then Dec 02 16:57:59 thank you Dec 02 16:58:20 don't toss shoulda's when those shoulda are impossible Dec 02 16:58:25 actually prolly couldn't anyway, once it was hosed you wouldn't have been able to rewrite recovery Dec 02 16:58:48 just reflashed RC29 Dec 02 16:58:49 and istr he had 29 out before 30 shipped. so yes virginia, there is a santa claus. :) Dec 02 16:58:51 if it hosed in the incremental update, you could put the full RC29 on the SD card and then reboot into the normal recovery and use that to get it working Dec 02 16:58:51 and i was fine Dec 02 16:59:08 RyeBrye, that's what i did Dec 02 16:59:32 so you got a second chance at hacking it. there's your 'shoulda coulda woulda'. Dec 02 16:59:48 * Damm smacks Disconnect around like a little girl Dec 02 17:01:08 RyeBrye: is there some way to cause this to occur? like waiting for the next update and putting the batteries? would rc29 on the sd card install? dont you need a modded recovery image? Dec 02 17:01:19 i was trying to figure out how to get a modded rc30 on my stock rc30 >_< Dec 02 17:03:23 wow. there is a ton of extra cruft in the kernel config (CONFIG_DEBUG_INFO..? really? on a production device?) Dec 02 17:04:08 is there anyting mapped to magic sysrq on the g1 hw? Dec 02 17:04:35 almost 100 comments in < 24 hours Dec 02 17:05:25 swap? what does it need with swap? Dec 02 17:05:36 i installed the latest jesus RC30 but it seems i no longer have root? in a term i can su but am still UID 10047 does that mean im hosed? Dec 02 17:06:32 Disconnect: you know that IRC is like the hallways of the internet ;-) Maybe you should ask on the android-kernel mailing list, so that other people showing up after the fact will still have the benefit of the discussion. Dec 02 17:06:59 lol Dec 02 17:07:03 disconnect got pwned Dec 02 17:07:11 <_zippy> jbq: motion seconded Dec 02 17:07:12 <_zippy> lol Dec 02 17:07:13 jbq: when you can get the last couple years of hallway discussions into a searchable archive that will be valid. but given that infobot is logging all this... Dec 02 17:08:10 Disconnect: That's about like saying that the hallway discussions at Google were recorded on security cameras. It has neither the visibility nor the searchability of the official lists. Dec 02 17:08:45 <_zippy> jbq: you don't have access to the security tapes? Dec 02 17:08:49 <_zippy> want my login? Dec 02 17:09:03 show me a link for an indexed archive of security camera tapes with audio. cuz i can give you a link for infobot's archive. (and robots.txt allows * so if its not indexed, thats a problem with google, not with the archive..) Dec 02 17:09:16 <_zippy> http://_zippy:yppiz_@classified-eyes-only.google.com Dec 02 17:09:32 besides, shotgunning a half dozen random questions out to the list is - at best - impolite. Dec 02 17:09:35 OMG GOATSE Dec 02 17:09:38 zzippy: your username backwards is an insecue password Dec 02 17:09:41 <_zippy> lol Dec 02 17:09:55 <_zippy> blau: there is a special character in it! Dec 02 17:10:06 since when did _ become special? Dec 02 17:10:12 underscore is the least special character Dec 02 17:10:19 <_zippy> since it's not alpha or numeric Dec 02 17:10:24 that doesn't make it special Dec 02 17:10:28 it's a super common symbol Dec 02 17:10:29 * Disconnect thinks _ is plenty special and it deserves a birthday party just like any other character. Dec 02 17:10:36 <_zippy> haha Dec 02 17:10:40 aww okay disconnect has won me over Dec 02 17:10:49 * weilawei gets the noisemakers Dec 02 17:10:57 <_zippy> so i'm guessing anything that is easilly accessable on a keyboard isn't special? Dec 02 17:11:02 yeah Dec 02 17:11:02 <_zippy> .,/;'[]? Dec 02 17:11:15 <_zippy> are they alpha-non-special? Dec 02 17:11:20 <_zippy> i missed that classification Dec 02 17:11:27 on a mac keyboard it includes ¡™£¢∞ªº–• Dec 02 17:11:32 * weilawei œ∑´®†¥¨ˆøπ“‘©˙∆˚¬…æ Dec 02 17:11:33 Ω≈ç√∫˜µ≤≥÷ Dec 02 17:11:45 god forbid using a c64 Dec 02 17:12:00 <_zippy> shesh Dec 02 17:12:08 <_zippy> i'll just resort to chinese characters for my password now Dec 02 17:12:17 <_zippy> wait, those arnt special either, doh! Dec 02 17:13:05 can someone please tell me how do i start telnet once i have installed the mod RC30 ? Dec 02 17:13:22 rreck: go tel the spartans Dec 02 17:13:26 telnet only works on the google rc30 Dec 02 17:13:27 <_zippy> get the shell apk Dec 02 17:15:09 _zippy: you mean connectbot? Dec 02 17:15:23 where is mpardo :( Dec 02 17:16:19 how do i get a root shell in mod RC30? in the terminal it seems like su doesnt do it Dec 02 17:16:37 i go from $ to # but the UID isnt ) Dec 02 17:16:40 0 Dec 02 17:17:49 <_zippy> can you view the data folder? Dec 02 17:19:21 _zippy: nog Dec 02 17:19:45 so i guess i have root access, since before i sued i couldnt Dec 02 17:20:47 <_zippy> rreck: what's nog? Dec 02 17:21:02 <_zippy> rreck: if oyu can view the data folder you most likely have root, normal shell can't view it Dec 02 17:26:22 anyone have stock rc29/rc30 lying around? want a copy of /proc/config.gz ('adb pull /proc/config.gz config.gz' should work fine w/o root) Dec 02 17:27:45 <_zippy> h/o lemme check i think i archived it.. Dec 02 17:27:54 That's a kernel file, so it won't be part up the update zip. Dec 02 17:28:30 (or rather, it will, but deep down in the kernel image somewhere) Dec 02 17:28:34 yah Dec 02 17:28:40 i need it in a slightly more usable form Dec 02 17:29:13 <_zippy> Disconnect: no dice, sorry mate Dec 02 17:29:38 <_zippy> no archive on this machine atleast Dec 02 17:29:45 Anyone with an unpatched phone should be able to pull it. Dec 02 17:30:11 <_zippy> no unpatched phone either ;) Dec 02 17:31:12 Where in the build tree should the /platform/vendor/* be placed? There isn't an example in the manifest file default.xml Dec 02 17:32:59 Paint.Cap - ROUND - The stroke projects out as a square.. Dec 02 17:32:59 Paint.Cap - SQUARE - The stroke projects out as a semicircle.. Dec 02 17:33:03 ..what to believe? Dec 02 17:33:10 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/graphics/Paint.Cap.html Dec 02 17:33:18 <_zippy> haha Dec 02 17:33:45 <_zippy> Paint.Cap - RECT - The stroke projects out as a squared quartered-circle Dec 02 17:33:47 <_zippy> eek! Dec 02 17:33:48 <_zippy> lol Dec 02 17:34:39 * andyross suspects there's a good joke about javadoc lurking there somewhere... Dec 02 17:36:01 huh.. all the GPS satellites are disabled currently! Dec 02 17:36:23 The ... satellites? Are we under EW attack from aliens? Dec 02 17:36:29 ..and only I have the power to enable them Dec 02 17:36:39 tauno: Plz to be turning them on again. Dec 02 17:36:54 at least that's what my G1 tells me: "Enable GPS satellites" in settings :) Dec 02 17:37:08 andyross: you missed a chance for a similar joke yesterday. the secuirty team couldn't even spell security much less (etc) Dec 02 17:38:33 if the security team cant spell, i'm worried about my infrastructure. Dec 02 17:39:37 lol. the web site isn't maintained by the security team. Dec 02 17:41:38 Disconnect, still want it? Dec 02 17:42:13 yah definitely Dec 02 17:43:07 anyone recommend headphones? Dec 02 17:43:20 yes, I recommend them Dec 02 17:43:22 im looking at the shure scl2 or the ultimate ears metro.fi 2 Dec 02 17:43:43 or just getting some more skull candy smokin buds for like 20 bucks Dec 02 17:44:07 tauno: it aborted :( Dec 02 17:44:54 headphone discussions are like editor flamewars. You're guaranteed that all the advice is wrong. I use a set of Bose Tri-ports (the big over-ear ones) at my desk and love them. Haven't really found a set of buds that don't make my ear canals ache after an hour, so I still have an old-ish iPod set in my backpack. Dec 02 17:44:54 d0netsFN: ive always been pleased with sony Dec 02 17:45:03 Disconnect, my network probably, mail maybe? Dec 02 17:45:23 sure. Dec 02 17:45:35 (yah it said connection to remote host timed out so prolly you.) Dec 02 17:46:34 or at least, jf has dcc'd me stuff successfully before :) Dec 02 17:46:41 yea andyross i need some in ears Dec 02 17:46:46 for snowboarding and such Dec 02 17:47:10 You're on your own then. My ears don't tolerate them well, so they all suck IMHO. Dec 02 17:47:28 I can only confirm this observation :P Dec 02 17:47:55 andyross the shures come with like 9 different ear attatchments Dec 02 17:48:02 3 types of material, 3 sizes for each Dec 02 17:49:09 both of the ones im looking at have those Dec 02 17:49:10 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826273015 Dec 02 17:50:26 http://www.electronicadirect.com/insidepage.php3?sid=e7945o4cg9rougz&id=1010511 Dec 02 17:52:51 I just recently got some klipsh custom-3s. You can't go wrong with those :D Dec 02 17:53:29 too pricey for me Dec 02 17:53:37 I got em half off. lol Dec 02 17:53:38 im looking to spend less than 70, possibly less than 60 Dec 02 17:53:45 half off is still to pricey Dec 02 17:54:02 wow. i wasn't on crack. it really does have gigabit ethernet support, Just In Case. Dec 02 17:54:08 yeah, me too. but $300 headphones for $150? who could pass that up? lol Dec 02 17:54:12 ooh and 10gig. miscounted my zeros. Dec 02 17:54:28 I was looking to buy some in-ears anyway, and saw that sale... couldn't resist. lol Dec 02 17:54:49 * Disconnect wants 10gig ethernet on his cellphone Dec 02 17:57:53 dOnetsFN, I did have some ulta-ears previously. Not that model you linked specifically, but I was happy with them Dec 02 17:58:02 ultra-ears Dec 02 17:58:10 err, ultimate Dec 02 17:58:12 :D Dec 02 17:58:34 JesusFreke1: extusb to 3.5mm adapter? Dec 02 17:58:48 no. in-ear headphones Dec 02 17:59:13 dont see many extusb in ear headphones? Dec 02 17:59:39 oh, no. they're 3.5mm Dec 02 18:00:08 JesusFreke1: hey man, i've been outta the loop lately. Have you or has anyone else come up with a way to make debian setup automatically when you turn on the G1? Dec 02 18:01:53 no. that's Saurik's project :D Dec 02 18:02:07 JesusFreke1: oh, my mistake Dec 02 18:02:32 JesusFreke1: sorry :) Dec 02 18:02:46 nothing to be sorry about :) Dec 02 18:03:14 I know you have a project... what are you working on again? Dec 02 18:03:35 mainly doing the modded updates Dec 02 18:03:50 though I've been doing some work on Jasta's project "Five" also Dec 02 18:04:08 I remember now, you have one of those wiki's up right? Dec 02 18:05:01 that's DarkRiftX :) Dec 02 18:05:10 probably. heh Dec 02 18:05:56 Dah... oh well. Told you I was out of the loop :) Dec 02 18:06:28 how's Five going? I've really been interested in that. It's a neat idea. Dec 02 18:07:09 It's still a bit rough :) Dec 02 18:07:22 but I've been using it day-to-day to listen to music Dec 02 18:07:42 I really like the idea also :) Dec 02 18:08:36 I haven't actually been able to get it built correctly yet. How does it compare with Orb? Dec 02 18:18:10 MUCH better than orb :) Dec 02 18:18:39 I tried orb first, which caused me to look for something better, which is when I found five Dec 02 18:18:51 And yeah, it's a pain to get it to build the first time Dec 02 18:19:28 It should be easier once it's ready to release though Dec 02 18:20:57 arent there builds available for five? Dec 02 18:21:25 wait wait wait Dec 02 18:21:46 oh ok were talkin about five Dec 02 18:21:51 i saw "better than orb" Dec 02 18:22:02 i tried five but i was too newb to get it done Dec 02 18:22:16 i got it to install but i got errors every time i clicked on something Dec 02 18:22:20 hi, it seems to me that 'repo sync' is very slow... how can i download faster or how can i download a tarball...etc. which can also be built? Dec 02 18:23:01 get a faster net connection? its pretty quick here. Dec 02 18:23:07 d0netsFN: do you use a 3rd party media player on the G1? Dec 02 18:23:38 Yeah I couldn't build it. something about the library i was trying to build Dec 02 18:23:59 i use imeem Dec 02 18:24:02 mostly Dec 02 18:24:12 i havent added any of my own music since i got my new sd card Dec 02 18:24:16 Disconnect: oh really? perhaps i really need to check my connection Dec 02 18:24:26 d0netsFN: i found that imeem doesn't match up music very well Dec 02 18:24:47 maybe pandora just spoiled me Dec 02 18:24:57 pandora gave me worse Dec 02 18:25:03 really? Dec 02 18:25:05 also, istr it downloads a couple of gigs of data Dec 02 18:25:09 i dunno how many times i got john mayer shit with dave matthews Dec 02 18:25:13 and allways the same 2 songs Dec 02 18:25:16 mabye it's genre then Dec 02 18:25:18 it played him more than dmb Dec 02 18:25:42 Disconnect: but there isn't any other way to download the source? Dec 02 18:25:48 nope Dec 02 18:25:59 hmm... thanks. Dec 02 18:26:02 and since its apache licensed, you can't even point out that the repo is not the same as the bins. Dec 02 18:26:04 I like the southern metal stuff. COC and BLS. Never really gave me any problems Dec 02 18:26:17 surprised no one uses tunewiki. Dec 02 18:26:18 but i never selected favorites either Dec 02 18:26:24 unix_lappy: I use it Dec 02 18:26:32 alot Dec 02 18:27:09 Tunewiki beats the hell outta the default music app Dec 02 18:27:11 <_zippy> oh geez Dec 02 18:27:19 <_zippy> is xavier matthews in this chatr? Dec 02 18:27:20 imho Dec 02 18:27:32 <_zippy> i want to beat the hell out of him after reading all his posts to the google group.. Dec 02 18:27:42 <_zippy> tech support specialist my ass Dec 02 18:28:26 _zippy: he's proof that a human can fail the turing test. Dec 02 18:28:43 ITechJunkie: interface on both arent really amazing, but really functional. Dec 02 18:29:17 <_zippy> jbq: i was thinking of a reply like that, but i bet it'd get a response like "it's spelt turning you idot! plox answer teh question now?!" Dec 02 18:29:44 unix_lappy: i agree Dec 02 18:29:45 ITechJunkie: plus it's gotta be REALLY bandwidth and more importantly BATTERY intensive to run TuneWiki as a general purpose media player. Dec 02 18:30:14 unix_lappy: how so? Dec 02 18:31:50 ITechJunkie: you're constantly pulling albumn art, lyrics, running background processes to cache a bunch of things related to each song in the albumn and related non-local content that's broadcasting to a webservice. Dec 02 18:32:39 <_zippy> jbq: hahaha look at his profile - http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=zdz4RxYAAADaoPEp-ibExScG6SnvSCGjo4cocwWvDVg2RHsu8f1bCg Dec 02 18:32:48 <_zippy> average rating 1 star, 382 ratings ahahah Dec 02 18:32:58 unix_lappy: For sure, but there are options to turn that off. I also think the lyric sync feature is pretty cool. Dec 02 18:33:05 http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=zdz4RxYAAADaoPEp-ibExScG6SnvSCGjo4cocwWvDVg2RHsu8f1bCg Dec 02 18:33:18 oops... stupid right click :) Dec 02 18:33:34 <_zippy> itechjunkie: ops! sorry :) Dec 02 18:33:48 <_zippy> ohhh such a little kid, sigh - no need ot flame Dec 02 18:33:58 _zippy: looks like Erkle Dec 02 18:34:44 Oh He's The Guy Always Posting Like This. I Remember His Posts NOW. Dec 02 18:34:48 <_zippy> haah - yeap Dec 02 18:35:05 Disconnect: yeah, exactly. Dec 02 18:35:20 <_zippy> Disconnect: the first one i read from his was "IP Address?" and then i looked at his signature and was like... hmmm tech specialist?? Dec 02 18:35:46 <_zippy> last digest showed him ranting/yelling about "htp" and how people should go away if they don't know what it is Dec 02 18:35:52 hahahah from a sig: "Student/Browser Specialist/Developer/Web-Master \r\n Google Group Client Based Tech Support Specialist" Dec 02 18:36:12 lol Dec 02 18:36:19 <_zippy> am i being ignorant in saying, the only htp i've heard of is a html pre-processor? Dec 02 18:36:24 <_zippy> lol Dec 02 18:36:46 JesusFreke1: :) Dec 02 18:36:52 <_zippy> Disconnect: Browser specialist... i.e. - i have IE, firefox, opera AND netscape running on the same machine Dec 02 18:37:14 JesusFreke1: did you ever confirm that removing the index fixed your issue? i'd like to commit that change... Dec 02 18:37:15 lol Dec 02 18:56:02 rarrr Dec 02 18:56:05 where is mpardo Dec 02 18:59:02 A quick search tells me that 802.1x is not fully working on Android. I'm wondering if anyone here would care to guess when that will be fixed? Dec 02 18:59:36 there is something buggy with the battery lvl indicator. ive been reporting 4% for the last hour of usage Dec 02 19:00:14 Someone from Germany hear using Simyo with the G1 and could tell me the APN settings? :-) Dec 02 19:00:20 (working APN settings :D) Dec 02 19:00:21 I see forum postings like "while wpa_supplicant reports successful authentication, it seems that the tiwlan0 driver fails to record the session keys." Dec 02 19:00:31 Delvien: ever completely drained the battery since you got the phone? Dec 02 19:00:33 Delvien: someone in here said that the power meter is not accurate Dec 02 19:00:42 once Dec 02 19:00:43 Definitely not accurate. Dec 02 19:01:01 meaning no voltage monitoring Dec 02 19:01:06 its craptacular at best Dec 02 19:01:14 Actually, it only has voltage monitoring. Dec 02 19:01:42 no acpi? Dec 02 19:02:21 I thought ACPI was an API thing, typically in PC BIOSes. Dec 02 19:02:53 this is a mini pc :x kindof Dec 02 19:03:35 well it sort of is, aside from being ARM instead of x86 Dec 02 19:03:41 i c Dec 02 19:03:43 that doesn't mean that you have to code ACPI Dec 02 19:03:46 does the arm proc scale down? Dec 02 19:05:19 like powerstep i mean Dec 02 19:05:40 it can, but doesnt Dec 02 19:05:55 I guess my main question on 802.11x, being a total platform outsider, is: if somebody hacked up a fix tomorrow, would you be able to install that on your G1, or would it be locked out for lack of firmware keys? And if the latter, how often are firmware updates coming out which might pick up the patch? Dec 02 19:05:56 i think it was RyeBrye who enabled it in the source and tried it and said it sucks Dec 02 19:05:59 wouldnt that save battery life? Dec 02 19:06:22 might, but i heard performance was shit Dec 02 19:06:42 What's 802.11x? Dec 02 19:06:51 well if i could get another hour out of it. for me it would be worth it Dec 02 19:06:59 homunq: you would need root to make that hack/fix, or wait for google to do it, which would be whenever Dec 02 19:07:15 802.1x is authentication for networks, mostly useful for wifi Dec 02 19:07:33 homunq: oh. my brother wants that -- his univ uses it. Dec 02 19:07:39 yeah Dec 02 19:08:04 also if you want a voip solution that isn't wide-open for anybody to use Dec 02 19:08:27 but allows roaming beyond just one base station Dec 02 19:09:30 in other words, to put a crack in local cellphone monopolies. Dec 02 19:09:42 I want a pony Dec 02 19:10:03 vol: http://www.hedweb.com/animimag/cool-pony.jpg Dec 02 19:10:14 http://i-want-a-pony.com/ Dec 02 19:10:27 ohshi Dec 02 19:10:46 ahahahaha Dec 02 19:10:52 I went to i want a pony Dec 02 19:11:00 and clicked the "xhtml 1.1" button Dec 02 19:11:01 yeah Dec 02 19:11:03 not compliant :D Dec 02 19:11:08 FAIL Dec 02 19:12:52 well, this pony is tied up right over there, and we do have a really big back yard. Dec 02 19:13:14 it's not like I want a winged pony or anything. Dec 02 19:14:26 and look, there's a sign saying "this pony for sale really cheap" Dec 02 19:15:23 hi all, now that we have the option of scanning a specific product barcode, is there a database of the pictures of product barcode somewhere? So it would be convenient to scan the barcode of a product on screen and get where it is sold for how much Dec 02 19:17:04 Well battery finally died hehe Dec 02 19:17:36 http://tinyurl.com/5b8eo9 Dec 02 19:17:49 orci: do you mean like CompareEverywhere? Dec 02 19:18:30 i think he means the UPC itself is stored as an image online Dec 02 19:18:39 it's not. Dec 02 19:18:40 why would people store pictures of upcs Dec 02 19:18:47 i dont know Dec 02 19:18:47 Well battery finally died heheshopsavvy is better Dec 02 19:18:49 Mr.Mark jumped from 1.9..... Dec 02 19:18:56 woops Dec 02 19:19:02 jasta, yeah. but in order to scan a barcode I have to go to a shop and locate the product itself. What i'd like to do is getting a database on my laptop screen so i can scan it using my phone Dec 02 19:19:10 ... Dec 02 19:19:11 shopsavvy > compareeverywhere Dec 02 19:19:15 o_O Dec 02 19:19:20 orci: froogle Dec 02 19:19:24 if you already know what it is Dec 02 19:19:37 http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=Product+You+Are+Interested+In Dec 02 19:19:48 vol, yeah I know froogle Dec 02 19:19:50 face palm moment... Dec 02 19:20:04 I mean at the worst you could always write a little program to generate barcodes for you Dec 02 19:20:40 probably exists Dec 02 19:21:03 http://www.barcoding.com/upc/ Dec 02 19:21:16 :P Dec 02 19:22:12 orci: thats so backwards Dec 02 19:23:01 made another dollar! Dec 02 19:23:21 dollars you say? Dec 02 19:24:13 so will I if you go buy my threads: http://www.cafepress.com/djtachyon , http://www.cafepress.com/djtachyonqr , http://www.zazzle.com/djtachyon Dec 02 19:24:23 All Android Related :) Dec 02 19:24:33 You should buy the thong Dec 02 19:24:42 <_zippy> lol Dec 02 19:25:05 <_zippy> that right there is shameless promotion people Dec 02 19:25:06 <_zippy> haha Dec 02 19:25:06 I do like the 2d barcode Dec 02 19:25:11 http://www.cafepress.com/DJTachyon.299164914 Dec 02 19:25:16 :) Dec 02 19:25:23 did you scan it? Dec 02 19:25:31 no Dec 02 19:25:35 <_zippy> the tie is the winner Dec 02 19:25:37 DO IT! :) Dec 02 19:25:43 how do you scan 2d barcodes on android Dec 02 19:25:47 TELL ME Dec 02 19:25:52 <_zippy> use the voice command Dec 02 19:25:57 ??? Dec 02 19:26:03 <_zippy> "initialize 2d barcode scanning" Dec 02 19:26:03 there's a voice command for it? Dec 02 19:26:05 <_zippy> yes Dec 02 19:26:08 * _zippy grins Dec 02 19:26:18 there's a barcode scanner app in the market Dec 02 19:26:23 yeah Dec 02 19:26:24 thats the one Dec 02 19:27:04 Here is a test one I made for a Contact VCard Barcode: http://www.djtachyon.com/android/TestQRContact.png Dec 02 19:27:21 though with the leading 1, it condfused it a bit .. but you get the idea Dec 02 19:28:12 prize to the first person to scan the shirt :P Dec 02 19:28:43 how do I get it to recognize 2d barcodes? Dec 02 19:29:14 ahhh Dec 02 19:29:19 I guess it takes a while Dec 02 19:29:52 Plain Text: Google Android Geek Dec 02 19:30:51 howdy Dec 02 19:31:35 DJTachyon: no hoodies.... fail Dec 02 19:32:11 :) Dec 02 19:32:13 wha? Dec 02 19:32:16 pleanty of hoodies Dec 02 19:32:18 all kinds Dec 02 19:32:21 what you talkin about Dec 02 19:32:31 * DJTachyon gives vol a prize Dec 02 19:32:50 it is very fast if it doesnt have a problem scanning it Dec 02 19:33:11 delvien check again, all three of those sites have hoodies Dec 02 19:34:48 * DJTachyon pokes Delvien Dec 02 19:35:38 can you really scan 2d barcodes in android Dec 02 19:35:59 yup Dec 02 19:36:13 why don't you try? Dec 02 19:36:31 DJTachyon: but they are so plain Dec 02 19:36:37 I tried but I guess my english pronounciation is so bad that I could not make it run Dec 02 19:36:51 is there any other way/ Dec 02 19:38:44 think i solved my market issue Dec 02 19:39:19 :P Dec 02 19:39:29 what do you want on the hoodies Dec 02 19:40:43 boobs Dec 02 19:41:12 DJTachyon: embroidery Dec 02 19:41:14 An android with boobs? Dec 02 19:41:20 Bah Embroidery is $$$ Dec 02 19:41:32 DJTachyon: and a hoodie is not worth40+ dollars Dec 02 19:41:43 hah where do you shop? Walmart? Dec 02 19:41:57 actually. yeah Dec 02 19:42:42 well there you go Dec 02 19:43:41 embroidery requires that I pay a once time fee to convert the image into an embroidary pattern Dec 02 19:43:49 if you think 50 bucks for a hoodie is ok, then you're crazy Dec 02 19:43:50 and then I will pass the expense on to you Dec 02 19:44:07 have you ever shopped at a dept store? Dec 02 19:44:18 Yes Dec 02 19:44:20 go to macys and then you tell me who is crzy Dec 02 19:44:25 http://gizmodo.com/5100952/t+mobile-g1-net-access-cant-be-turned-off-results-in-huge-roaming-costs Dec 02 19:44:37 I dont shop at macys for that reason Dec 02 19:44:45 http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=338812&PseudoCat=se-xx-xx-xx.esn_results Dec 02 19:44:55 that doesnt make it ok because they do it Dec 02 19:45:01 *shrug Dec 02 19:45:13 for a custom nice quality hoodie, $50 is not outragous Dec 02 19:45:23 $40-$50 is probably the standard Dec 02 19:45:37 anyway im not arguing economics or import slave labor .. bbl Dec 02 19:45:39 if we all thought that way. ill go rob some people because hey, other people do it Dec 02 19:45:39 that's what is commonly charged Dec 02 19:46:17 Delvien: it's great to be cheap, but don't assume other people have to buy into your cheapness Dec 02 19:46:27 cafepress hoodies are not quaity they are cheaply made youpretty much pay for the logo Dec 02 19:46:32 I wouldn't pay $50 for a hoodie either Dec 02 19:46:44 but I'm not going to whine about someone charging that much Dec 02 19:47:09 maybe you should Dec 02 19:47:58 are there 32 GB micro SDHC cards, already? Dec 02 19:48:14 8gb is all i have found so far Dec 02 19:48:20 yes Dec 02 19:48:31 there are 16GB, definitely Dec 02 19:48:52 nice. what do they run? Dec 02 19:49:00 no idea Dec 02 19:49:22 got my 8bg for $17 Dec 02 19:49:28 gb* Dec 02 19:50:11 new version of dgAway up Dec 02 19:50:21 if anyone uses it, did the auto update nofitifcation come up? Dec 02 19:50:27 dgaway? Dec 02 19:50:43 blau, did you roll your own auto update? Dec 02 19:50:56 yeah, it just dumps you to the market though Dec 02 19:51:22 * Disconnect filed down a 64gb sdhc. now its a 4gb microsdhc. :( would have been cheaper to just buy the 4gb to begin with. Dec 02 19:52:56 toshiba possible makes a 32gb Dec 02 19:53:03 or so says tiger direct Dec 02 19:53:15 Grr. Dec 02 19:53:35 i hope none ever connects my apps to ddms Dec 02 19:53:36 lol Dec 02 19:53:37 pricewatch.com has 8gb for 18.98 Dec 02 19:53:38 ProgressDialog.show(context, "MyTitle", "MyMessage", true, false); Dec 02 19:53:47 that should show the progress dialog immediately at the foreground, right? Dec 02 19:53:50 SanDisk *just* started shipping 16G cards. If Toshiba's announced a 32G for soon-ish availability, I'd be pretty surprised. You sure the TigerDirect link isn't for an SD card, not a microSD? Dec 02 19:53:57 even if I have not set a view for the context Dec 02 19:54:07 or do I have to set a default view first of some kind Dec 02 19:54:11 your right andyross it is just sdhc Dec 02 19:54:12 not micro Dec 02 19:54:24 the first paragraph talks ove micro Dec 02 19:55:33 google microsdhc 32gb, second link down Dec 02 19:57:16 buy.com has 16gb for $50 Dec 02 19:57:38 really? the is drastically lower then what pricewatch was quoting Dec 02 19:57:56 http://gizmodo.com/5100952/t+mobile-g1-net-access-cant-be-turned-off-results-in-huge-roaming-costs Dec 02 19:58:09 oh ffs : ( Dec 02 19:58:18 ok, so I cannot show dialogs in onCreate I guess? Dec 02 19:58:24 I guess that's reasonable to assume. Dec 02 19:58:27 http://www.buy.com/prod/sandisk-16gb-microsdhc-memory-card-class-2-microsd-w-sd-adapter-bulk/q/loc/101/209974827.html $60 not $50 but.. Dec 02 19:58:31 yikes! Dec 02 19:58:31 Check if it's "in stock". I had a bunch of trouble finding a vendor that actually had the 16G cards available, and ultimately bought from eBay for about $70 Dec 02 19:58:54 oh price went up Dec 02 19:59:37 is there a maximum sdhc memory that t-mobile g1 can read? Dec 02 20:00:15 I will learn English one day :) Dec 02 20:01:03 i will learn dutch someday Dec 02 20:01:11 it works fine with 16GB. Dec 02 20:01:25 I don't think it's been tested with anything larger (yet). Dec 02 20:01:34 jbq, thanks Dec 02 20:01:37 orci: "Similarly to the above, as of version 2.00 of the specification,[15] the capacity of an SDHC card is limited to 32 GB. However, while not strictly adhering to that standard, it is possible to create SDHC cards of up to 2048 GB capacity. SDHC cards have fixed sector size of 512 bytes." Dec 02 20:01:52 so if the g1 has the sdhc spec, 32gb or maybe more Dec 02 20:02:11 s/has/implements (infobot shut your f'ing hole)/ Dec 02 20:02:12 Disconnect meant: so if the g1 implements (infobot shut your f'ing hole) the sdhc spec, 32gb or maybe more Dec 02 20:02:22 Is uSD still electrically identical to the full size card (I think that was true for transflash originally, not sure if it still holds for SDHC)? If so, someone with very small fingers could solder up an adapter and try it with a 32G card... Dec 02 20:02:28 why would you really need that much though Dec 02 20:02:39 infobot, i swear to god i'm gonna come over there and beat you Dec 02 20:02:41 You swear to god i'm gonna come over there and beat you? Dec 02 20:02:52 Delvien: i have a lot of mp3's Dec 02 20:02:56 ;> Dec 02 20:03:03 don't make me get my belt Dec 02 20:03:03 all legally purchased im sure Dec 02 20:03:06 lol wow Dec 02 20:03:15 DJTachyon: of course Dec 02 20:03:27 im more worried about HD TV Shows/Anime Dec 02 20:03:35 I easily have 100gig of anime Dec 02 20:03:36 :P Dec 02 20:03:37 all legally perchased Dec 02 20:03:40 i put all my music on my 8gb and i have 2gb left Dec 02 20:03:44 actually, SD is very sensitive to the capacitance of the connections, and soldering wires could increase the capacitance enough to prevent the signal from cleanly going through. Dec 02 20:03:55 the anime is unlicensed and fansubbed :P Dec 02 20:03:56 And the value of putting HD content on a device with a 480x320 screen would be ... ? Dec 02 20:04:05 it encodes clearer Dec 02 20:04:23 hah Dec 02 20:04:23 HD Anime encoded correctly looks awesome Dec 02 20:04:25 Disconnect, is it g1 or android implementing the shdc spec? Dec 02 20:04:49 tried encoding anything yet? I have a how-to on my site for doing it Dec 02 20:05:06 double ha Dec 02 20:05:15 took me awhile to find a decent program for doing it and the right specs Dec 02 20:05:32 DJTachyon: what app do you use? Dec 02 20:05:41 Super .. unfortunately .. Dec 02 20:05:45 i tried a lot of encoders Dec 02 20:05:54 linux/mac? Dec 02 20:05:56 it is the only one that did H.264 correctly Dec 02 20:06:11 well linux/mac can just use the FFMPEG H.264 command line Dec 02 20:06:30 this is for winblows Dec 02 20:06:51 i know i use it that way. but i want my customers to have a front end Dec 02 20:06:54 the only real requirement is that you get it in true H.264 Dec 02 20:07:24 otherwise it plays like crap.. Dec 02 20:07:32 at least until VLC gets ported ;) Dec 02 20:07:54 to android? that will be interesting Dec 02 20:08:40 Apparently romainguy met up with the VLC guys :) Dec 02 20:08:48 Heh, we have a codec bigot in the house. :) Dec 02 20:08:56 oh? Dec 02 20:09:09 does the g1 support 802.11 a? Dec 02 20:09:15 no Dec 02 20:09:18 :< Dec 02 20:09:23 b/g only Dec 02 20:09:30 love is over Dec 02 20:09:34 H.264 is the only codec that runs at a decent bitrate on the G1 right now Dec 02 20:10:09 i cant remember the last time i encountered an A spot Dec 02 20:10:12 Oh, OK. You're talking about the phone stack. I interpreted that as a more general statement. Dec 02 20:10:13 and hw accel Dec 02 20:10:24 yayzor Dec 02 20:10:25 nope nope .. it only plays H.264 native Dec 02 20:10:27 DJTachyon: do we know how long it will take VLC to port to android? Dec 02 20:10:29 DJTachyon: you sir, haven't been to my apartment Dec 02 20:10:47 apparently .. do you have a 486 running doom there too ? Dec 02 20:11:02 Surely the phone's mpeg2 implementation should be pretty robust too, no? There's mature DSP code for that for basically every hardware environment ever imagined. Dec 02 20:11:03 p3 450nhz actually Dec 02 20:11:05 ITechJunkie: It's all rumor mill now .. so no :P Dec 02 20:11:08 nah, but a router, and a imac that is ten years old DJTachyon Dec 02 20:11:15 bummer Dec 02 20:11:20 andyross: probably, but mpg2 blows :P Dec 02 20:11:48 http://www.djtachyon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49&Itemid=1 .. for my how-to Dec 02 20:11:55 Ah, and out comes the codec bigot. :) Bitrate isn't everything. Compatibility and robustness of implementation counts for far more in my book. Dec 02 20:12:18 bah .. I have 200G of QT Photo JPEG Dec 02 20:12:21 how about that? :P Dec 02 20:12:57 5 min @ 640x480, no sound is about a gig Dec 02 20:13:20 i have a cat. owned Dec 02 20:13:26 i have 4 cats :P Dec 02 20:13:38 thats just weird Dec 02 20:13:39 and 2 ferrets Dec 02 20:13:46 more weird Dec 02 20:13:51 more then three, and you're crazy Dec 02 20:14:00 yeah, thats my wife .. crazy Dec 02 20:14:01 :P Dec 02 20:14:03 lol that's the rule Dec 02 20:14:29 we have 1800sqft for them to run around .. so we dont see more than 1 or 2 at a time :P Dec 02 20:15:07 anyway ...... Dec 02 20:15:23 i just beat fallout 3 Dec 02 20:15:23 :P Dec 02 20:15:36 DJTachyon: is it good? Dec 02 20:15:37 fallout3 was boring, didn't like the aiming system Dec 02 20:15:51 been playing far cry 2, though the missions are boring, the world is nice Dec 02 20:16:06 the world in fo3 was drab Dec 02 20:16:10 if you arent a fallout fan .. people might not like it as much Dec 02 20:16:17 but i really did like it Dec 02 20:16:23 end was a bit abrupt Dec 02 20:16:25 i hear dead space is where it is at Dec 02 20:16:31 my wife has been playing dead space Dec 02 20:16:32 :P Dec 02 20:16:34 nice Dec 02 20:16:46 she likes the horror thriller games Dec 02 20:16:46 i haven't played it yet, but i hear good things Dec 02 20:16:58 I thought fallout 3 was excellent Dec 02 20:17:00 yeah, how bout s.t.a.l.k.e.r. clear sky? Dec 02 20:17:05 I was afraid it was going to be oblivion: wasteland edition Dec 02 20:17:07 but it wasn't :D Dec 02 20:17:09 i liked the first stalker, was win Dec 02 20:17:21 first stalker was fine, except it got incredibly repetitve Dec 02 20:17:22 Tried "The Suffering"? Dec 02 20:17:27 vol: i'll give it that, the world did seem hand made compared to oblivion Dec 02 20:17:27 plus the weight management was a pain Dec 02 20:17:34 true Dec 02 20:17:34 that's because it was : P Dec 02 20:17:36 i dont know if she played stalker .. wait .. which was that other one with the wierd little girl in it and you ate people or something Dec 02 20:17:42 FEAR? Dec 02 20:17:44 nah that is fear Dec 02 20:17:45 yeah Dec 02 20:17:51 DJTachyon: stalker is the ukraine one Dec 02 20:17:51 she liked those too Dec 02 20:17:53 you didn't eat people : ( Dec 02 20:18:00 fear scared me Dec 02 20:18:05 fear was excellent Dec 02 20:18:05 could only play for like 30 minutes Dec 02 20:18:09 lol Dec 02 20:18:09 WONDERFUL pacing Dec 02 20:18:13 the new one looks good Dec 02 20:18:16 VERY good use of tension Dec 02 20:18:21 same with bioshock Dec 02 20:18:25 eh Dec 02 20:18:26 scared me too much Dec 02 20:18:30 i liked bioshock Dec 02 20:18:34 bioshock wasn't as great as I'd hoped Dec 02 20:18:35 it was wonderful Dec 02 20:18:42 i just couldn't play it Dec 02 20:18:43 about halfway through the game it stopped really surprising me Dec 02 20:18:48 I couldn't get into bioshock either... seemed kinda corny Dec 02 20:18:49 never got that far Dec 02 20:18:58 ITechJunkie: no way Dec 02 20:18:58 i beat the hell out of that game Dec 02 20:19:09 first stalker was my fav, so far Dec 02 20:19:17 though far cry 2 is almost half done Dec 02 20:19:32 i actually stopped playing Gears of War 1/4 of the way in because it got frustrating Dec 02 20:19:50 i still cant get used to those stupid thumbsticks Dec 02 20:19:56 DJTachyon: the Gears of War boss on "medium" difficulty was... not medium. Dec 02 20:20:05 heh Dec 02 20:20:05 (I played the PC version.) Dec 02 20:20:10 i should just get the PC version Dec 02 20:20:29 i have a cheater box for the 360 though Dec 02 20:20:34 it pisses off those kiddies on there Dec 02 20:20:49 hows that work Dec 02 20:20:55 lets me use mouse and keyboard :) Dec 02 20:20:58 o nice Dec 02 20:21:23 has a little deadspace in the controls but you get used to it fast Dec 02 20:21:37 my wife got it for me for x-mas last year ;) Dec 02 20:21:52 you have a cool wife Dec 02 20:21:56 from what i hear, so far Dec 02 20:21:58 indeed :) .. Dec 02 20:22:06 and no we dont play WoW Dec 02 20:22:10 LOL FOUND OUT Dec 02 20:22:38 though we did Beta Test Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, and we are testing another one right now Dec 02 20:22:42 I stayed away from WoW. No crack for me. Battlefield 2142 was bad enough. Dec 02 20:22:52 hah you are a 2142 addict too? Dec 02 20:23:03 that game ruined me for awhile Dec 02 20:23:04 Recovering. :-) Dec 02 20:23:15 Tried the Empires mod for HL2? Dec 02 20:23:16 I've been clean for months. Dec 02 20:23:32 fadden: don't say "WoW" you will wake up cbeust Dec 02 20:23:40 bahahaha Dec 02 20:23:41 I went a different direction (Sword of the Stars). Dec 02 20:23:57 SotS is pretty fun Dec 02 20:24:08 vol: tried AMoC? Dec 02 20:24:09 romainguy: i think I said it first Dec 02 20:24:18 no, I got BoB, but couldn't get into that race Dec 02 20:24:25 fadden: Empires mod is actually fantastic Dec 02 20:24:27 I'm a bit more turtle I suppose : P Dec 02 20:24:32 Empires mod is kind of a pain if your team sucks Dec 02 20:24:37 romainguy, if he's a true WoW player than he's already awake, playing Dec 02 20:24:38 well true .. Dec 02 20:24:57 btw, fadden, how is AMoC Dec 02 20:25:09 vol: they added a bunch of new stuff in AMoC, including space stations and civilian populations. Haven't made up my mind about it yet. Dec 02 20:25:17 hmm Dec 02 20:25:40 They do seem to have spent some time on the diplomacy (about time, too). Dec 02 20:26:00 * sparkle yawns Dec 02 20:26:01 I beta tested Warhammer Online .. call me when Warhammer 40K online comes out :P Dec 02 20:26:02 codec talks? Dec 02 20:26:03 "I sure hope we get SoTS on Android." <-- ObTopicalRemark Dec 02 20:26:05 diplomacy comes from the barrel of a gun :D Dec 02 20:26:10 -- mao Dec 02 20:26:22 I beta tested SoTS on my Motorola Q Dec 02 20:26:25 heh Dec 02 20:26:55 err not SoTS Dec 02 20:27:06 SoL Dec 02 20:27:09 shadow of legend Dec 02 20:28:11 1.3G Download on 2.5G .. took like 3 hours Dec 02 20:29:31 awesome Dec 02 20:33:45 so i've got compareeverywhere, shazam, and an irc client Dec 02 20:33:50 what apps am i missing out on for my g1? Dec 02 20:34:29 bubble is cool :) Dec 02 20:34:42 bubble, see how far out of alignment your motion sensor is Dec 02 20:34:49 bonsai blast Dec 02 20:35:22 meyou-: I pretty much just downloaded everything Dec 02 20:35:40 Could someone tell me how Tunes Remote really works? I cant find my iTunes. Where do Dec 02 20:35:42 connectbot will either make you very happy or you just won't care Dec 02 20:35:48 streamfurious is very nice Dec 02 20:36:05 For which IP do I have to open the port (my macs or the G1s? ) Dec 02 20:36:12 aSettings is handy, so's Anycut Dec 02 20:36:53 I kinda like WeatherBug Dec 02 20:37:25 Hey... Dec 02 20:37:45 * ttuttle wants to fix Music so that, after playing a playlist, it leaves you at the beginning instead of the end. Dec 02 20:37:56 (...so that if you press Play again, it restarts the whole playlist.) Dec 02 20:38:28 i want to fix dialer so it actually, you know, dials the number in the contact :p Dec 02 20:38:54 sparkle: :P Dec 02 20:39:10 aheh well Dec 02 20:39:19 i have outgoing caller id broadcast turned off Dec 02 20:39:33 and callers who i want to get my caller id Dec 02 20:39:39 i prefix their numbers with *31# Dec 02 20:39:46 the gsm code to send it for that call only Dec 02 20:39:52 barcode svanner base app, video player, flashlight, apps installer, skymap is cool Dec 02 20:40:00 a better calculator app too Dec 02 20:40:24 MarioSimulator .. oh my neices love that Dec 02 20:40:30 maybe a Wiki app - quickpedia seems ok Dec 02 20:40:53 <_zippy> mariosimulator is probably thebest app i've got :D Dec 02 20:41:06 <_zippy> i use that, shazam, compareeverywhere on a daily basis haha Dec 02 20:41:54 barcode scanner im having too much fun with Dec 02 20:42:51 it makes Barcode Beasties a fun time-waster Dec 02 20:43:04 well im just having fun with QR Codes :P Dec 02 20:43:13 <_zippy> barcode beasties, i read something about that, wasnt there something like that ages ago? Dec 02 20:43:22 <_zippy> like a real video game based on that? Dec 02 20:43:23 Monster Hunter for the PS Dec 02 20:43:24 there was :) Dec 02 20:43:27 even before Dec 02 20:43:37 <_zippy> i remember my nephews getting it Dec 02 20:43:39 you put in CD's and it makes monsters from the random cd stuff Dec 02 20:43:46 <_zippy> and i beat them with a potatoe chip bag or something Dec 02 20:43:51 <_zippy> and they got really aggrivated Dec 02 20:47:47 hmm I wasnt even aware of SoTS .. what have you done?! Dec 02 20:48:07 MOO2 FTW! Dec 02 20:48:14 ugh god Dec 02 20:48:19 moo was excellent in its time Dec 02 20:48:20 <_zippy> SoTS? Dec 02 20:48:21 SoTS is what MOO3 should have been Dec 02 20:48:24 back when there really wasn't anything better Dec 02 20:48:27 <_zippy> secretary of the state? Dec 02 20:48:33 but, it's been a decade, the world has moved forward Dec 02 20:48:33 <_zippy> or am i just not up on the new games? ;) Dec 02 20:48:47 vol: I still play the original MOO occasionally Dec 02 20:49:13 there's an infocom zip player out somewhere Dec 02 20:49:16 if you like text adventures Dec 02 20:49:18 I can't stand it at this point Dec 02 20:49:21 it's just boring as hell Dec 02 20:49:40 I like some of the old stuff. Heck, they used my M.A.X. campaign guide at http://www.gog.com/ :-) Dec 02 20:49:52 I feel like "damn, I did all of this already. Here, let me try.... no, that wasn't implemented as a feature yet... how about.... no, not that either...." Dec 02 20:50:09 I loved Imperium Galactica 2 :D Dec 02 20:50:14 if we're going to kick it old school I'll go there Dec 02 20:50:25 rogue Dec 02 20:50:26 moria Dec 02 20:50:26 :) Dec 02 20:50:36 vol: original Reach for the Stars on Apple II Dec 02 20:51:23 MOO was RftS on steroids Dec 02 20:51:26 zippy: Sword of the Stars Dec 02 20:51:27 heh Dec 02 20:51:57 SSG tried to reinvent RftS a few years back. They failed. Horribly. Dec 02 20:52:30 I keep waiting for a Netrek discussion to break out. Dec 02 20:52:52 The Android touch screen might be useful for that, and hey, full keyboard. Dec 02 20:52:55 how about ascension, populous, outpost 2, and alpha centari? Dec 02 20:53:08 populous was fun, i played that on my ST Dec 02 20:53:12 DJTachyon: I played some SMAC Dec 02 20:53:18 fadden: how about xpilot? Dec 02 20:53:21 SSG? Dec 02 20:53:36 sparkle: that'd work too Dec 02 20:54:05 i loved alpha centari and ascension Dec 02 20:54:06 vol: maker of strategy games Dec 02 20:54:12 heck, mame would be nice Dec 02 20:54:15 fadden: oh, which game Dec 02 20:54:18 oh Dec 02 20:54:30 I thought you meant they tried to make another game like it named SSG Dec 02 20:54:50 how about SGW? Dec 02 20:54:54 :P Dec 02 20:54:57 vol: sadly, they gave it the same name. Sadly, the 1981-ish original was better. Dec 02 20:55:00 Stargate Worlds Dec 02 20:55:02 :< Dec 02 20:55:14 I'd like to like an mmo about stargate Dec 02 20:55:15 really I would Dec 02 20:55:18 except it's an MMO. Dec 02 20:55:23 and those always get boring as fuck and require grinding Dec 02 20:55:37 "Awesome I'm a level 27 jaffa, I can make sonic blasts with my mind!" Dec 02 20:55:44 well Tabula Rasa was pretty good .. Dec 02 20:55:50 no grinding Dec 02 20:56:04 but it's dead Dec 02 20:56:06 "awww, damnit, apophis wants 6 heads of the Tok'Ra?" Dec 02 20:56:11 "But I just gave him 4!" Dec 02 20:56:21 I may be beta testing a certain mmo Dec 02 20:56:21 :P Dec 02 21:03:43 ugh. stupid closed source crap. arch/arm/mach-msm/board-trout-rfkill.c:53: undefined reference to `rfkill_switch_all' Dec 02 21:04:03 ..of course its undefined. its part of the closed source wlan module. :( Dec 02 21:04:25 isnt it all supposed to go open source by the end of the yaer? Dec 02 21:04:57 where did you hear that? Dec 02 21:05:24 i looked at the roadmap Dec 02 21:05:39 well the source was open sourced Dec 02 21:05:43 and it was before the end of the year Dec 02 21:05:46 so that's done :) Dec 02 21:06:01 http://tinyurl.com/6nzsvt Dec 02 21:06:04 :P Dec 02 21:06:28 Yay!!!!! Dec 02 21:06:37 <- got his phone just a few minutes ago Dec 02 21:06:38 ah Dec 02 21:06:41 that's different DJTachyon Dec 02 21:06:55 that's about moving our internal development from perforce to the public git tree Dec 02 21:07:06 i guess im the stupid git Dec 02 21:07:32 :D Dec 02 21:07:59 *drums* Dec 02 21:10:26 you mean buh-dum-ching? Dec 02 21:10:31 yes Dec 02 21:10:38 ;) Dec 02 21:10:43 ..yah i am pretty sure they aren't opening the ti wireless module. Dec 02 21:10:47 i just couldn't come up with a more creative way to say it Dec 02 21:10:50 but exporting a working flipping kernel tree would be nice. Dec 02 21:11:22 i want low-level calls to the audio codec .. me wantie pitch bend Dec 02 21:11:33 hah Dec 02 21:11:45 pitch bend? Dec 02 21:15:25 yup Dec 02 21:15:33 play audio slower and faster Dec 02 21:15:52 sparkle probably noticed my nickname :P Dec 02 21:16:18 but there is no way to do it with the current media calls Dec 02 21:16:42 even having direct access to the raw audio buffer probably wouldnt allow for fast enough processing Dec 02 21:16:53 not sure though .. Dec 02 21:17:05 most of my work with this has been done in programmable logic .. Dec 02 21:17:34 so it would have to probably need native code to support media playback speed Dec 02 21:17:52 and then i can finish my program! :) Dec 02 21:18:21 * ITechJunkie watches DJTachyon words float over his head Dec 02 21:18:45 DJT do you want to change pitch? Dec 02 21:18:50 * ITechJunkie googles Tachyon Dec 02 21:18:52 or just change playback speed? Dec 02 21:19:35 well that is an interesting questions Dec 02 21:19:53 you think the G1 has enough power to change speed without changing pitch? :) Dec 02 21:20:12 ya Dec 02 21:20:16 it's REALLY easy Dec 02 21:20:31 so you can pitch correct while changing playback speed? Dec 02 21:20:36 ok good its not just me. the current tree export is flat broken. (took rc30 .config, fixed the localversion and it still won't build) Dec 02 21:20:37 ya Dec 02 21:20:44 do tell Dec 02 21:21:00 say you have a human voice at er, what 8k hz Dec 02 21:21:16 if you throw away 1/8000th of a second at a time the pitch does't change Dec 02 21:21:31 simple Dec 02 21:21:42 oh well sure .. Dec 02 21:21:49 but i mean the API doesnt support that Dec 02 21:22:27 i need to go say +/- 20% of playback speed and turn on and off pitch correction .. Dec 02 21:23:03 but i mean applications put enormous amounts of time into pitch correcting algorithms Dec 02 21:23:09 k im out Dec 02 21:23:10 see ya Dec 02 21:23:13 o/ Dec 02 21:23:44 and time stretching Dec 02 21:24:08 My app is very simple too .. Dec 02 21:24:57 just need API calls for coarse speed adjust, and then bumping + or -. Though another feature i was going to add already is on the app store Dec 02 21:25:25 HSTempo Dec 02 21:29:24 Hello everyone. Dec 02 21:29:28 o/ Dec 02 21:29:40 oh hello Dec 02 21:31:17 im heading home .. later all Dec 02 21:32:10 First off, I want to say that Android is great. I just purchased the G1 from T-Mobile and my girlfriend is enjoying all the capabilities. I was just wondering if there are any known issues with the features provided for this phone. One thing I noticed is that MMS images/video/audio cannot be saved to the SD card or at least there isn't an obvious method for doing so. Dec 02 21:32:36 the camera stinks, and so does the battery life. Dec 02 21:32:45 also, not quite as open source as stated Dec 02 21:32:50 but some things are a little odd Dec 02 21:32:58 vol: "also, not quite as open source as stated" << what is? Dec 02 21:33:02 (and damnit, the gmail app only lets me attach pictures?! maybe I want to attach other things?!) Dec 02 21:33:12 The camera is actually quite decent. The battery life is a bit short. Dec 02 21:33:12 draik_: I was bummed that it didn't auto-rotate, but a fix is going to be released for that soon Dec 02 21:33:14 we said in advanced that some drivers would not be open sourced Dec 02 21:33:24 s/stated/hoped/ Dec 02 21:33:38 ITechJunkie: What does not auto-rotate? Dec 02 21:33:39 romainguy: exported tree won't build. or at least, won't build for me. Dec 02 21:33:50 ITechJunkie: "a fix"? its not broken. Dec 02 21:33:58 Disconnect: ask swetland Dec 02 21:34:07 Disconnect: that doesn't make Android not open source :) Dec 02 21:34:12 romainguy: lol Dec 02 21:34:18 Disconnect: yeah, you know what I mean though. A fix for "my" distaste :) Dec 02 21:34:20 it does if it stays that way. Dec 02 21:35:14 ITechJunkie: What does not auto-rotate? Do you mean when you turn the phone sideways and such without sliding the touchscreen monitor? Dec 02 21:35:30 draik_: yeah, thats what i'm talking about Dec 02 21:35:33 Ok Dec 02 21:35:41 What about saving MMS? Dec 02 21:35:45 that would be a little distracting to me I think :P Dec 02 21:36:22 romainguy: "The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable" .. oooh wait a second here. i don't know why i didnt' spot that earlier actually. Dec 02 21:36:36 vol: I can see the G1 getting motion sickness from it all :P Dec 02 21:36:47 kernel is gpl. gpl requires the scripts to INSTALL it onto hardware. whoops. (and i know, thats a tmobile thing not a google thing) Dec 02 21:36:51 Disconnect: we open sourced Android, not the G1 :) Dec 02 21:36:53 vol: i'd probably play with it too much for my own good. Dec 02 21:37:12 Disconnect: GPL3 requires that, AFAIK, GPL2 does not (and Linux is explicitely GPL2 for that reason) Dec 02 21:37:20 saurik: thats straight out of gpl2 Dec 02 21:37:30 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html#SEC1 Dec 02 21:37:39 (no idea what the actual anchor is btw) Dec 02 21:37:50 Disconnect: gplv2 requires a copy of the scripts... which we have. what we don't have is the signing keys. Dec 02 21:38:32 a case could be made that those keys are part of the installation scripts Dec 02 21:38:34 draik_: another thing i'd like to see happen is for the g1 to support finger gestures. IE, pinching for the screen to zoom out when surfing the web. Dec 02 21:38:35 Now I'm not sure if this is a question for Android or T-Mobile... Can MMS be saved to the SD card? Also, can SMS/MMS be forwarded? Dec 02 21:38:44 unless someone is sitting down with a slide rule and a notepad signing them by hand :) Dec 02 21:39:09 btw it was pointed out that the tree builds, RFKILL needs to be turned on in the config (doh) Dec 02 21:39:09 ITechJunkie: You're just making the G1 an iPhone clone Dec 02 21:39:13 draik_, if you have root... yes you can save to the SD card, if not no. Dec 02 21:39:46 draik_: nah, I just like a couple of things that the iphone offers. Dec 02 21:39:56 anyway to get root after rc30 yet? Dec 02 21:41:02 i guess that's a "no" Dec 02 21:41:17 Damm: My gf has the phone, not me so I cannot do it at this time, but how do I check if she is root? She receives MMS and wants to save them on the SD card. We tried a few things and were not successful in finding a way to save the MMS image/audio/video to the SD card or anywhere else for the matter. Dec 02 21:41:36 If she has rc30, she does not have root. Dec 02 21:41:44 if she has an older version than rc30, there are ways to gain root Dec 02 21:41:52 (notably the bug where anything you type gets executed!) Dec 02 21:41:57 so have her hit Dec 02 21:41:58 enter Dec 02 21:41:59 reboot Dec 02 21:42:00 enter Dec 02 21:42:02 and see what happens : P Dec 02 21:42:03 draik_, if she hasn't modded her phone by now, you won't have root, end of story. Dec 02 21:42:18 How do I tell what version I have? Dec 02 21:42:29 it's in settings Dec 02 21:42:30 Damm: well you could just say update later forever Dec 02 21:42:35 Ok. She doesn't have root. How does she save them to the SD card in this case? Dec 02 21:42:49 Settings -> About Phone -> Build Number Dec 02 21:42:51 jasta, i thought RC30 was forced? Dec 02 21:42:56 no, of course not Dec 02 21:42:57 and you couldn't do it later. Dec 02 21:43:01 hrmph Dec 02 21:43:13 well doesn't matter to me.. i'm waiting for the next fragging release Dec 02 21:43:21 and see what more T-Mobile takes away from us Dec 02 21:43:31 khert: not...yet. Dec 02 21:43:33 takes away? Dec 02 21:43:41 Thanks Dec 02 21:43:48 Yeah, my brand new one came with RC30 Dec 02 21:43:50 jasta, course, take away more from us. Dec 02 21:43:54 sparkle, thnx Dec 02 21:44:15 what have they taken away so far? Dec 02 21:44:41 i have an extra not sure if they'll be worth a premium someday :) Dec 02 21:45:00 sparkle, sure they will. Dec 02 21:45:05 you never know on ebay Dec 02 21:45:09 rooted G1 for 1k Dec 02 21:45:36 lol Dec 02 21:45:40 jasta: tehre is code that applies the update eventually anyway Dec 02 21:45:54 i'm sure someone's working on rooting >=rc30 Dec 02 21:45:58 well it's looking like 350$ and up on G1's taht are unlocked/not unlocked Dec 02 21:46:06 honestly an unrooted g1 isn't that interesting to me - the s/w is still light years behind some other platforms Dec 02 21:46:40 truthfully, a blackberry has more features then a G1 right now Dec 02 21:46:45 and that's really disgusting. Dec 02 21:46:48 Disconnect: where si this code? Dec 02 21:47:17 Damm: how do you figure? Dec 02 21:47:32 ITechJunkie, something more then bluetooth audio for one Dec 02 21:47:55 Damm: same for my nokia communicator Dec 02 21:47:56 that honestly irks me, I thought we were going to have A2DP by now Dec 02 21:48:05 or BT PAN or BT DUN Dec 02 21:48:10 the no included tethering thing is a bit bizarre Dec 02 21:48:14 I wouldn't have agreed with Damm at all until they released the BlackBerry sync software. Dec 02 21:48:20 Damm: you thought they would release an update with critical new features a month after product launch>? Dec 02 21:48:28 Damm: some of us do have BT PAN although with some speed issues Dec 02 21:48:45 jasta: most of us thought they'd release critical features before launch. hence "critical" and all. Dec 02 21:49:02 It is still a v1 phone, and only a few months old. Honestly, you can't expect it to be perfect or as mature as other platforms yet. Dec 02 21:49:14 It's just unrealistic Dec 02 21:49:14 jasta, I read some articles that suggested A2DP would be addressed within weeks of the release Dec 02 21:49:15 is there a way to overlay an image on top of an imageview? Dec 02 21:49:20 Decavolt: I agree with you. Dec 02 21:49:31 perhaps it was unrealistic of those articles to suggest that. Dec 02 21:49:36 Damm: articles written by...? Dec 02 21:49:38 * Disconnect expected it to be at least half as nice as the original iphone was at release. and its not close (ok it has mms, but otherwise...) Dec 02 21:49:48 tech articles tend to lean that way, yes Dec 02 21:50:03 jasta, engadget was that way, and I think ars was leaning but never went that far. Dec 02 21:50:27 it's just kind of weird that it shipped without a file or task manager Dec 02 21:50:34 and some kind of notepad/editor Dec 02 21:50:38 well then yes, those reporters were being unrealistic. a critical update a month after product launch is not a responsible thing to do Dec 02 21:50:45 heck, my five year old nokia can make powerpoint presentations :p Dec 02 21:50:52 sparkle: You can get it from the Market. Dec 02 21:50:53 it could introduce its own bugs and such. you need a lot of testing to release software to a phone Dec 02 21:50:56 they sure patched up that root hole fast enough Dec 02 21:50:57 I just mean that they tend to speculate and write up rumors fairly often. Dec 02 21:51:10 sure draik_ Dec 02 21:51:10 gphone is the best k Dec 02 21:51:21 rumors are fine Dec 02 21:51:31 it's a free phone to me, so I really shouldn't bitch Dec 02 21:51:34 jasta: seriously? testing on the g1? thats funny Dec 02 21:51:50 Damm: they patched up the root hole because it was a securutiy flaw, which obviously gets higher priority. Dec 02 21:51:57 and i'm not finding the reference for the update-anyway code. Dec 02 21:51:58 security* Dec 02 21:52:00 a pretty funny security flaw at that Dec 02 21:52:01 Of course they are. But one shouldn't complain or be discouraged when they find out that those rumors aren't true. Dec 02 21:52:36 Disconnect: how do you know that it exists? i would be surprised to learn that they included such code. Dec 02 21:52:51 someone here referenced it, but i can't find the reference right now Dec 02 21:52:59 someone...credible? :) Dec 02 21:53:14 yah with a link Dec 02 21:53:43 ive been hitting "update later" since RC30 hit my phone, and it certainly hasnt auto-updated. Dec 02 21:55:59 jasta: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/apps/Updater.git;a=blob;f=src/com/android/updater/PesterActivity.java;h=d6682443d455f94a4ddcc1478ff47a45044e4521;hb=HEAD Dec 02 21:56:07 Log.i(TAG, "Installing overdue OTA update without prompting"); Dec 02 21:56:22 I had done the "delete Updater.apk" thing, which disabled the "please update" prompts. But found that my phone had bricked itself overnight and bounced to the recovery loader, presumably because it tried to apply an update and failed. Dec 02 21:56:23 oh awesome Dec 02 21:56:35 thanks jimp Dec 02 21:56:40 So clearly there's some level of "push it anyway" functionality in there. Dec 02 21:57:14 I suspect as soon as rc31 comes out, it'll flash rc30 Dec 02 21:58:10 <_zippy> hmm Dec 02 21:58:16 If I may, I would like to suggest the addition of being able to save MMS to the SD card and also forward MMS/SMS from the phone. Other than that, I can't say I'm discouraged with the phone (T-Mobile G1) Dec 02 21:58:19 <_zippy> jesusfreke - you there? Dec 02 21:58:26 jimp: actually, reading getNextPromptTime, you can't deduce whether this means it will auto-update or not Dec 02 21:58:36 it depends entirely on "promptMinutes". Dec 02 21:59:15 which comes from the update file that gets downloaded, or something... I dunno Dec 02 21:59:31 it comes from whoever fires up PesterActivity... Dec 02 21:59:35 I don't grok the whole intent thing yet. Dec 02 21:59:35 andyross: correct, T-Mobile has the G1 operating with (so far) all updates as being "required" (vs. "recommended") so you can only postpone, not stop, the system updates Dec 02 22:02:34 jimp: reading this code, if promptMinutes was not infinite, then it would be an enormous string of pester intervals. Dec 02 22:03:10 jasta: I can't conclude from my brief look at the code whether it does force an update for now. But certainly it was designed with that feature in mind. Dec 02 22:03:37 jimp: not really. if you look at this code you can see taht it would be woefully inefficient to give an update that has a constant update interval for several weeks Dec 02 22:03:51 you'd need to split a list each time the pester activity opens which would have hundreds or thousands of entries Dec 02 22:04:09 and you'd have to create and specify such a string Dec 02 22:04:22 this code would be so lame to work wtih if you didn't pester forever. Dec 02 22:06:21 lets see if we can find the intent that fires it, FOTA_READY. maybe thats in the source somewhere Dec 02 22:06:49 if promptMinutes is omitted, then i'd say we can reasonably conclude auto-updating does not happen Dec 02 22:07:31 in this particular release Dec 02 22:08:22 yah nothing stops them putting it in next time for the release after. (for that matter, they can put it in between google and the phone, too) Dec 02 22:08:51 Disconnect: they could also replace this code entirely in the next release, of course Dec 02 22:09:13 anyway the point is just that "forced OTA updates" were something they have at least considered while writing the code Dec 02 22:11:14 can anyone even find where PesterActivity is called? grepping isn't turning it up Dec 02 22:11:50 referenced in ./packages/apps/Updater/AndroidManifest.xml Dec 02 22:12:02 yah thats not it. Dec 02 22:12:13 manifest for the package that supplies it just says "i can provide this" Dec 02 22:12:18 I figured its presence there causes it to get started when the updater app opens Dec 02 22:12:27 but again that's just my lack of knowledge with android in general Dec 02 22:13:27 ..there is only one file in the updater app and its the activity Dec 02 22:14:33 but in any case. we know it gets called. doesn't look like its called from the open source portion of our little adventure. can anyone guess what that means? :) Dec 02 22:14:53 nah I think the launchMode=singleInstance causes it to start that activity when the application starts. Dec 02 22:15:43 FWIW, the forced-update mode is designed for remote bricking. If you call the carrier telling them that your phone was stolen, that's a mechanism to inactivate the phone remotely. Dec 02 22:16:35 <_zippy> jbq: really? do you have a source for this? seems plausible Dec 02 22:17:00 _zippy: you should be able to find the bricking code in recovery. Dec 02 22:17:18 I don't know exactly where it is, though. Dec 02 22:19:05 i can't find where the updater is called at all. according to source it must set updateFile.. Dec 02 22:20:24 Disconnect: a whole lot of that code is Google-proprietary non-open-source (sadly, including the parts that should be generic and have nothing to do with the Google server protocols). Dec 02 22:20:46 ah. so its "open source" except google apps (which makes sense) and core system functions (which doesn't) Dec 02 22:21:09 :/ Dec 02 22:21:46 so it seems AndNav was forced to go to openstreetmap.org to get it's map info Dec 02 22:22:01 due to the Google Maps API TOS Dec 02 22:22:02 DJTachyon: if they wanted to do live mapping yah. the google maps api license is a beast Dec 02 22:22:03 DJTachyon: that was probably from upstream data providers that google maps uses Dec 02 22:22:17 yeah i read the PDF today Dec 02 22:22:43 I'll admit that there's no reason why the code that talks to the download manager and communicates with recovery should be kept hidden. It's probably the way it is because it was written that way and nobody has had time to re-architect it yet. Dec 02 22:22:49 im assuming it's teleatlas not wanting a free gps turn-by-turn system out there putting all their other clients out of business :P Dec 02 22:23:33 Hrm. Dec 02 22:23:50 Why aren't the default "Friends" and "Family" groups from gmail not showing up in contacts? Dec 02 22:23:56 jbq: rearchitect? wasn't it written for an open source platform to begin with? :/ Dec 02 22:24:07 (the contacts from those groups are there, but I can't display those groups) Dec 02 22:24:23 Disconnect: we didn't do a perfect job. Dec 02 22:24:29 DJTachyon: i'm waiting for someone to port maemo mapper. Dec 02 22:24:33 Groups are just tags. "Friends" and "Family" are special case tags. Dec 02 22:24:44 doesnt TomTom have a linux version too? Dec 02 22:24:54 Nafai: Just a bit of information for ya'. Dec 02 22:25:22 Slackwise: So I have to manually add an equivalent tag for it to show up on my phone? Dec 02 22:25:31 Not sure. Dec 02 22:25:35 Let me check... Dec 02 22:25:54 http://androidguys.com/?p=609 Dec 02 22:26:24 that post confuses me Dec 02 22:26:49 oh tomtom bought teleatlas .. hmm Dec 02 22:26:49 * Disconnect has to go to PT, sigh. bbl. Dec 02 22:26:54 I see "Family" but not Friends. Dec 02 22:27:13 I hope TomTom puts out a version of their TomTom navigator / mobile / whatever they call their cell-phone hosted GPS thing on Android Dec 02 22:27:20 And Family is missing 3 people. @_@ Dec 02 22:27:22 I had it on my P990 and it was really nice Dec 02 22:29:09 Slackwise: Odd Dec 02 22:29:20 Nafai: Indeed. :/ Dec 02 22:29:38 I have a meticulously organized Contact list in Gmail. :/ Dec 02 22:29:58 I even populated the comment field for each contact with little notes and when/where I met them... Dec 02 22:30:30 Can't believe I didn't notice. Dec 02 22:30:42 The groups are wrong then, but the contacts are all visible if I select "All Contacts". Dec 02 22:33:56 im hoping to get sent the new beta of AndNav2 tonight Dec 02 22:35:05 Does anyone know what happened to that app that would lock your passwords based on biometrics? Dec 02 22:36:11 I think it was called biowallet Dec 02 22:36:35 Could someone tell me what to do when the pictures cache is messed up. The pictures doesnt find any of the jpgs I put on the sd card Dec 02 22:36:58 anno^da_: you could open and close the SD card door. Dec 02 22:37:08 (give it a few seconds to unmount) Dec 02 22:37:40 <_zippy> ITechJunkie: I never saw it released? Dec 02 22:38:11 Well I have tried that. I have deleted the pictures now and try to get the app reloading the pictures. Dec 02 22:38:30 A button indexing the SD card would be nice. So the users knows whats going on in the background. Dec 02 22:38:55 It is a mess if you know that something is must be going on since everything is slow but you dont know what. Dec 02 22:39:01 I'd rather fix the reasons why the indexing gets out of sync. Dec 02 22:39:21 Well indexing takes cpu and you cant do much about it. Dec 02 22:40:01 And indexing 200 pictures takes its time. So if the user starts the pictures app right after putting the pictures on the SD card he has to get some message whats going on. Dec 02 22:40:08 so, maybe an icon (like the sync icon) that'd tells you it's indexing. Dec 02 22:40:12 Yeah Dec 02 22:40:17 that would be nice. Dec 02 22:40:19 that'd be reasonable. Dec 02 22:40:34 Just something that the users knows whats going on. Dec 02 22:40:39 jbq: while youre at it, there is a bug when you use scanFile and explicitly set mime type... Dec 02 22:40:50 (I'm not a UI designer, though, so it's not up to me to decide about adding icons). Dec 02 22:40:52 it still uses the extension to wrongly guess the type Dec 02 22:40:59 jasta: ewwww :( Dec 02 22:41:06 And perhaps block the pictures app while the indexing is going on. Dec 02 22:41:18 jasta: could you file a bug about that? Dec 02 22:41:21 At the moment I get 2 broken pictures in the pictures app :P Dec 02 22:41:33 (having 200 pictures on the SD card) Dec 02 22:41:36 i will try to remember. :) Dec 02 22:41:54 i ended up removing the feature that was going to use this anyway, so i might need to build a test case again Dec 02 22:42:11 But I'd like to say that my first experience here playing around with the unlocked G1 in Germany is very nice. :-) Dec 02 22:43:14 Unlocking was no problem and running it with a prepaid carrier here is no problem as well. Everything is running smooth. It was worth waiting that long for the import. Dec 02 22:43:56 jbq: lots of android relies on extension to get things right. the MediaPlayer does so as well :\ Dec 02 22:44:12 jasta: well, it's going through the same code. Dec 02 22:44:20 not really Dec 02 22:44:30 same media scanner, no? Dec 02 22:44:33 its going through the same collection of classes, but not literally the same path. the extension based assumption is found in lots of places Dec 02 22:44:41 *sigh* Dec 02 22:44:47 _duplicated_ in lots of places :) Dec 02 22:45:04 the irony is that in the download manager I rely strictly on the mime types, and we have problems because of that (misconfigured servers). Dec 02 22:45:14 it also even uses extension to determine the MediaPlayer implementation to use even with http streams. so it totaly ignores what the server says the mime type is too Dec 02 22:45:58 it's hard to get both correctness and compatibility with misconfigured servers that work "fine" with other apps/devices... Dec 02 22:48:29 well, the best way to get both is to let the user make their own choices on top of yours Dec 02 22:49:50 asking or trusting the users has its share of problems... Dec 02 22:49:56 (agreed that for power-users it's the right thing). Dec 02 22:50:01 users are bad Dec 02 22:50:02 in general Dec 02 22:50:12 wastrel: yeah, sometimes they're worse. Dec 02 22:50:28 i hate them so much Dec 02 22:50:41 jbq: for every user its the right thing. make your own choice, and then if it fails for some reason, let the user intervene. Dec 02 22:50:50 yup. Dec 02 22:51:15 for instance, if the server says an apk is really a general octet stream, then you display an error and if they want to long click the item and say "no you stupid machine, its an android package." let them Dec 02 22:51:34 jasta: yes. that just requires more code :( Dec 02 22:51:55 but it sounds reasonable, yes. Dec 02 22:53:10 is there some way of getting "file" to spit out mime types? maybe have a reported and detected mime type Dec 02 22:53:26 yep, looks like file -i Dec 02 22:53:46 jsharkey: the challenge is to determine that from an in-memory buffer of partial data. Dec 02 22:54:07 jsharkey: can't download a whole file to later find that it's not supported and should be discarded. Dec 02 22:54:16 DJTachyon: Is it a free beta? Dec 02 22:55:47 if not, mind giving your impressions, especially compared to other navigation software? Dec 02 22:56:18 heh Dec 02 22:56:23 do you think andnav will start working? Dec 02 22:57:02 I'm curious what they can do Dec 02 22:57:12 hi Dec 02 22:57:12 hmm, the issue with the prompting-user approach is that if you have an app that accepts generic octet streams, and we dont have a chance to override its mime to be treated as an apk package Dec 02 22:57:13 does anyone know how to make your older application update everytime you update the version to the market? Dec 02 22:58:03 jsharkey: well, as an advanced user, if you have a file manager that accepts */*, allows to rename files, rescan them, delete them, and open them, you're golden. Dec 02 22:58:48 androoid: the only practice I've found has been to make your app use the internet to query a version number somewhere (your website, etc) and check whether it is newer Dec 02 22:58:58 androoid: youll have to write your own version-check code, try http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/ or http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/source/browse/trunk/connectbot/src/org/connectbot/util/UpdateHelper.java Dec 02 22:59:03 hmm still huh Dec 02 22:59:54 jbq: very true @ file manager Dec 02 23:00:09 do any of them on the market behave this way tho? :/ Dec 02 23:00:27 ;\ Dec 02 23:01:01 when android goes on the iphone, it will all be over huh Dec 02 23:01:22 heh Dec 02 23:01:28 I don't think that one's going to happen Dec 02 23:01:33 umm wat? i <3 my keyboard :P Dec 02 23:02:03 whats your wpm at? Dec 02 23:02:17 i <3 my 13 buttons ;> Dec 02 23:02:33 androoid: its above 60 on the g1 iirc Dec 02 23:02:34 that typing game is no joke Dec 02 23:02:45 woaaaaaaaah Dec 02 23:02:56 * jsharkey goes to check Dec 02 23:04:13 do many apps support VeeCheck thingie? Dec 02 23:05:05 someone should totally write a typing tutor app for the G1 - or just a speed check app Dec 02 23:05:10 to see how fast you can type Dec 02 23:05:19 there's a game type thing Dec 02 23:05:46 that tells you your wpm at the end Dec 02 23:05:48 there's already one Dec 02 23:05:50 yeah Dec 02 23:05:59 type the words before they fly off the edge of the screen Dec 02 23:06:05 so hard :( Dec 02 23:06:08 but the keypad is so tiny, and my thumbs are so huge : ( Dec 02 23:06:19 i can only get like 15 wpm after months of practice Dec 02 23:06:29 Are there some problems known with recognizing mp3s? I got 2 albums of a certain band on the sd card. One album gets recognized the other one not. Both mp3 encoded and both propberly tagged. Dec 02 23:07:02 mmkay maybe it wasnt 60, i just got Dec 02 23:07:09 i just got 40 trying right now Dec 02 23:10:23 is there any way to overlay an imageview over on top of another imageview? Dec 02 23:11:48 what is the typign game? Dec 02 23:12:04 androoid: yes, just do it. use a layout that lets you Dec 02 23:12:09 oh. TextSpeed? Dec 02 23:12:10 but you should probably consider why you want that. Dec 02 23:12:43 i'm trying to make some kind of themometer reading with a scale in the bg, then update the foreground with the reading Dec 02 23:13:14 you probably should use a leveled drawable for that Dec 02 23:13:30 and use a single imageview to draw all of the states Dec 02 23:15:23 you can even just use a ProgressBar Dec 02 23:15:32 and just change the drawable Dec 02 23:15:45 look at how ProgressBar is implemented if you dont understand what i mean Dec 02 23:15:55 okay Dec 02 23:16:17 ooh thats right we have source now, i wanted a vertical ProgressBar awhile back /me digs into code Dec 02 23:27:03 androoid: take a peek at overriding Drawable.setLevel() Dec 02 23:27:48 how can i send MMS to emulator? Dec 02 23:28:54 is it possible? Dec 02 23:29:03 dd94301: through DDMS under Emulator Control tab Dec 02 23:29:15 i see only voice and SMS Dec 02 23:29:24 oops Dec 02 23:29:33 sms is mms Dec 02 23:29:40 messaging does both sms and mms Dec 02 23:30:16 damm: even voice and media? Dec 02 23:31:07 what up Dec 02 23:32:13 good evening Dec 02 23:33:47 Damm: if SMS =MMS than how do i send audio? All is i see is text box............ Dec 02 23:34:23 dd94301, press Menu Dec 02 23:34:50 err, should read the whole conversation :p Dec 02 23:34:51 eldenz, i am not using G1 Dec 02 23:34:53 <_avatar> is there a way to make the emulator emulate "WiFi" mode, instead of 3G for the internet connection? Dec 02 23:34:55 have only checked on device Dec 02 23:35:05 _avatar: no, wifi isn't emulated. Dec 02 23:35:14 <_avatar> damn, alright, thanks Dec 02 23:35:41 i guess my question is also same...can i emulate MMS? Dec 02 23:36:23 i know i'm asking for rumours here... but I'm wondering: How are the chances we're gonna see android on the xperia X1? It seems the hardware is a lot nicer than the g1s Dec 02 23:38:17 we know of any new android phones on their way yet? Dec 02 23:39:15 no, but rumor has it that moto, lg, and samsung are probably working on some.... Dec 02 23:43:51 is there any sort of task manager for android? Dec 02 23:44:16 there's one in the market, but I don't recall it's name Dec 02 23:44:26 what audio formats does android support? mp3, ogg, mp4? Dec 02 23:44:32 not that you really need one since android handles that on it's own Dec 02 23:44:36 something like that, it's listed on the docs Dec 02 23:44:43 yeah i just have been noticing a lot of slowness for common tasks Dec 02 23:44:52 and its either find a task manager or wait 2-3 days after every new app install Dec 02 23:45:27 luok, it's called Service Viewer Dec 02 23:45:31 cool thanks Dec 02 23:45:32 is there a decent navigating app for android yet? Dec 02 23:45:33 it prints output of `ps` Dec 02 23:45:53 hmm, no ogg support? Dec 02 23:45:56 and other stuff Dec 02 23:46:00 surprising.... Dec 02 23:46:16 snadge: since the market is still free apps only i imagine not Dec 02 23:46:24 tomtom would be nice .. or something like it Dec 02 23:46:44 yeah certainly Dec 02 23:48:16 snadge: looking for a free app or something you'd pay $50 for? Dec 02 23:48:23 when are these mofos gonna send me my monthly bill Dec 02 23:48:40 elad: T-Mo? Don't complain if they're giving you free service. Dec 02 23:48:42 id had the phone for what almost 2 months now Dec 02 23:49:13 so check your account online... Dec 02 23:49:28 i want paper statement Dec 02 23:49:39 so check your account online, and print it. Dec 02 23:49:50 i want paper statement mailed to me Dec 02 23:49:55 then, if you really want, you can put it in an envelope and mail it back to yourself Dec 02 23:50:05 i want paper statement mailed to me from tmo Dec 02 23:50:37 Might want to call them then. I don't think T-mo billing idles in this channel. Dec 02 23:51:05 oh really? Dec 02 23:51:19 no, just kidding. They're here all the time.... watching.... Dec 02 23:51:30 i knew it Dec 02 23:51:34 i knew u r joking Dec 02 23:52:51 * Damm rm -rf's elad's account Dec 02 23:53:09 Damm: you'll have to mail him that on a piece of paper Dec 02 23:53:28 Decavolt, the hell I will... I don't have to do a thing Dec 02 23:54:26 oh hai Dec 02 23:54:36 you cant remove my account i r run vista Dec 02 23:54:46 *facepalm* Dec 02 23:54:58 was that a pathetic attempt at humor? Dec 02 23:55:00 im protected from sillies likr you Dec 02 23:55:27 Dec 02 23:55:34 you guys dont handle it well Dec 02 23:55:36 get out more. Dec 02 23:55:45 no that was like 12 year old kiddie stuff Dec 02 23:55:56 you're on irc. Dec 02 23:56:03 right and? Dec 02 23:56:28 be prepared. Dec 02 23:56:35 for ANYTHING Dec 02 23:57:58 hm i can browse android market but can't download any apps, they just sit in "downloading" state Dec 02 23:58:12 i wonder if it uses something other than port 80 Dec 03 00:07:27 luok sounds likely Dec 03 00:10:33 yeah only place its not working is behind a firewall that blocks non port 80 outgoing connections Dec 03 00:12:12 android.com/market has to be the most useless site google has ever made Dec 03 00:13:17 luok: I agree Dec 03 00:14:56 i'll second that Dec 03 00:15:14 i would expect the web interface to have MORE features and info than the phone one Dec 03 00:15:24 haha yeah no kidding Dec 03 00:15:38 let me search apps in an even more sophisticated way, read comments, look at statistics of downloads, etc. Dec 03 00:15:53 think the market api's are just open? Dec 03 00:16:06 I was thinking about sniffing them out and building a website for it Dec 03 00:16:18 hm you should be able to get the source for the market app Dec 03 00:16:26 nope Dec 03 00:17:56 hm yeah all i see is packageinstaller project but thats not it huh? Dec 03 00:18:24 it'd be much easier to sniff out the packets if I could get the Market on the emulator...not sure how to do it from the router... Dec 03 00:18:27 market isn't an open-source app. Dec 03 00:18:37 zhobbs: just sniff out the packets over wi-fi :) Dec 03 00:18:42 heh yeah Dec 03 00:18:50 hmm, I could just open my wifi network and sniff them that way Dec 03 00:18:53 that's truee Dec 03 00:19:08 use an openwrt box and just go to town. Dec 03 00:19:09 ... except if they use SSL Dec 03 00:19:29 jbq: yeah, I suspect that they are secured anyway Dec 03 00:19:33 but have no idea Dec 03 00:19:43 oh yeah, that would make sense. i sometimes forget that the market isnt exclusively free :) Dec 03 00:20:29 I'd think they're working on a web frontend.... Dec 03 00:20:51 probably Dec 03 00:20:56 Root the phone and use a patched ssl implementation to save off the data going into and out of the market application? Dec 03 00:21:15 ah didn't even realize they don't let you write market replacements Dec 03 00:21:20 all apps are created equal my ass! Dec 03 00:21:24 luok: you can Dec 03 00:21:26 Not sure what value there would be in reverse engineering the *market*, of all things, though. Dec 03 00:21:32 luok: you just can't stick them on the market Dec 03 00:21:33 andyross: would be easier to modify the download manager in that case. Dec 03 00:21:47 andyross: since the download manager is open-source. Dec 03 00:21:50 zhobbs: ah Dec 03 00:21:54 andyross: just to have a web frontend for easier searching/browsing Dec 03 00:22:12 Even better. The SSL layer doesn't extend into the application? Dec 03 00:22:41 luok: we'll gladly accept contributions to allow apps that have the same UI flow as market. The basic design has been laid out already, as me for details if you're interested. Dec 03 00:23:48 I point this out a lot, but existing native code could implement something very similar to a market/installer/runner even on non-rooted phones. The only think you lack is the ability to run apps in separate UIDs. Dec 03 00:24:04 er, I point out the native code thing. Never given much thought to the market. Dec 03 00:24:51 luok: http://www.slideme.org/ Dec 03 00:25:03 that guy lives in Seattle :) Dec 03 00:35:33 aye issue 1229 and 1322 make me sad Dec 03 00:36:55 * d03boy hugs luok Dec 03 00:37:31 yeah, those should be fixed. Dec 03 00:37:41 (i.e. they need to be fixed) Dec 03 00:37:55 * d03boy puts them on his list of things to not do Dec 03 00:40:20 wonder when we'll hear about ADCII.... Dec 03 00:40:41 zhobbs: isn't it on the roadmap? Dec 03 00:41:04 ah, maybe not. my bad. Dec 03 00:41:32 "Q4 2008 - Key Announcement on Android Developer Challenge II" from http://code.google.com/android/roadmap.html Dec 03 00:41:53 #android-dev Dec 03 00:41:56 oops Dec 03 00:42:07 I'm kind of a git retard - how do I get the 2.6.27 head? http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/android-msm-2.6.27 Dec 03 00:42:12 Ah, there you go. between the SDK timeline, the SDK roadmap and the platform roadmap I tend to get lost :( Dec 03 00:42:34 yeah, me too Dec 03 00:42:49 I cloned the git://android.git.kernel.org/kernel/msm.git - but that gets the 2.6.25... and I don't know the git magic to switch to the 2.6.27 head Dec 03 00:43:07 git checkout [branchname] ? Dec 03 00:47:11 have u guys tried to play avi mp4 or sth other else like multimedia? Dec 03 00:47:42 i wanna do implement mediaplayer but just i can play audio things with mediaplayer things Dec 03 00:47:55 which means mediaplayer class Dec 03 00:48:36 i need help T_T Dec 03 01:08:22 was RemoteView deprecated? It doesn't seem to be supported with the notifications Dec 03 01:09:43 I think it should work fine, the download manager uses a RemoteViews. You can only use a very small set of subclasses of View with it, though. Dec 03 01:11:00 yeah, I'm trying to find which views I can use, but I can't find a reference in any of the view documents Dec 03 01:12:13 I think that the ones you can use all extend a given class or implement a given interface. Dec 03 01:23:33 Is there a way to have the G1 show up as a mass storage device under a Linux desktop? Dec 03 01:23:41 Nafai: it just *does* Dec 03 01:23:49 Weird Dec 03 01:23:56 I wonder why Ubuntu isn't automounting it Dec 03 01:23:57 you get a notification when you plug in, select 'mount' from the dialog Dec 03 01:24:47 I'm talking about the microSD card, by the way, not the internal FS Dec 03 01:25:16 <_zippy> nafai: ubuntu has worked flawlessly for me, better than windows machines Dec 03 01:25:38 can i manipulate/process an audio stream as it's being recorded? Or do i have to stop and release first? Dec 03 01:25:52 <_zippy> leeds: way to turn ur first statement into an apple slogan ;) Dec 03 01:26:27 jbq: yeah, they implement the interface, but it's difficult to find them because the documentation doesn't provide a list of known classes that inherit it Dec 03 01:26:28 is that an Apple slogan? Dec 03 01:26:45 <_zippy> it just does Dec 03 01:26:48 <_zippy> isn't that theirs? Dec 03 01:26:53 <_zippy> or is it, it just works... Dec 03 01:26:58 possibly it just works Dec 03 01:27:01 <_zippy> or have i just hear their drones spit that out so much... Dec 03 01:27:05 Nafai: does it work? Dec 03 01:31:36 HRm Dec 03 01:31:47 It is detecting it but not automounting Dec 03 01:31:53 I wonder if I screwed something up :) Dec 03 01:32:57 OH Dec 03 01:33:03 I didn't select "Mount" on the G1 :) Dec 03 01:34:25 Thanks guys Dec 03 01:43:02 what is the best 46-52 inch LCD 1080p TV you would you reccommend? im not really lookin at the price, more of the QUALITY of the tv. Dec 03 01:46:56 Does it have to be an LCD? Dec 03 01:47:17 (otherwise I'd go for a pioneer plasma. have a 50", love it) Dec 03 01:49:34 jbq: I have a toshiba 50" plasma I love as well Dec 03 01:50:01 * JesusFreke1 doesn't have a TV Dec 03 01:50:46 I'd spend the money instead on a few more monitors / video cards to support them. 3x2 setup of them. Dec 03 01:50:49 unless you count that 30" or so console that I have up in the bedroom I never use Dec 03 01:52:53 question about the G1 RC30 you're supposed to get a root shell by typing adb shell, that's from your linux machine.. or from the phone terminal? Dec 03 01:53:11 that's with one of the third-party modified rc30 versions Dec 03 01:53:22 from your linux or windows system, with the usb drivers/sdk installed Dec 03 01:54:25 okay.. i'm not that picky.. but I have the rc30, at this point I'd be happy to see what a root shell looks like. Dec 03 01:54:52 alien, do you have the official RC30? Dec 03 01:57:10 it came with my phone.. I just tested it.. i typed reboot and it rebooted my phone.. so i'm sure i have the right version Dec 03 01:57:21 ah, k. Dec 03 01:57:32 bah .. I have RC30 Dec 03 01:57:55 hey lieutenant Dec 03 01:59:18 Lieutenant: Do you want to go crazy with an LED backlight? Dec 03 01:59:29 and spend an extra $2000? :P Dec 03 01:59:44 hey quick im trying to install this app to watch my college team play tonight Dec 03 01:59:48 the game starts in 1 minute i think Dec 03 02:00:00 http://pastebin.ca/1274474 Dec 03 02:00:08 i get that when i try to run "make" Dec 03 02:00:11 any idears? Dec 03 02:00:20 (ubuntu 8.10) Dec 03 02:00:20 if So the Samsung LN46A750/LN52A750 .. otherwise the LN46A630/LN52A630 Dec 03 02:00:32 I am probably going to get the LN46A630 myself :P Dec 03 02:00:53 brb Dec 03 02:09:37 my calendar is noy synching since nov 26th. rebooting phone doesnt help, nor toggling the sync Dec 03 02:09:40 yes Dec 03 02:09:40 anyone seen this too? Dec 03 02:09:47 i'll go crazywith an lcd backlight Dec 03 02:09:52 led* Dec 03 02:21:52 g'day all.. any reference urls or info on comprehending the file naming scheme by the g1's camera please?.. Dec 03 02:49:08 Is there a way to save a stream? It looks like I can point MediaPlayer to an internet URL, but I don't think I have any access to the data past that point. Does it maybe save the cached file somewhere accessible? Dec 03 02:50:14 only pirates save streams Dec 03 02:50:58 TiberiumX: you'd need a stream ripper, and no there's no way (currently) to do that on Android Dec 03 02:51:43 although Leeds is right, ripping streams tends to fall on the "not cool" side of things Dec 03 02:52:43 for what type of albumart is the Music app exactly looking? some specific filename? embedded in id3 tag? Dec 03 02:53:04 Well, I'd have to disagree about recording streams, but regardless, this is for a podcast application. I want to be able to start playing immediately, but still end up with a saved file at the end. Dec 03 02:53:53 I guess it'll just be one or the other. Dec 03 02:54:11 that's still a stream ripper Dec 03 02:54:58 you'd need a player that'll at the very least record one continuous audio file from that stream, although most stream rippers split into multiple mp3's based on each song played Dec 03 02:55:54 you could run a ripper on some *nix server, and drop the saved file(s) into a folder, and then make that folder accessible via a web page. Connect with your browser on android, etc Dec 03 02:56:55 can't you download and start playing the downloaded thing? Dec 03 02:57:45 You can point it towards a downloading file, but it stops when it reaches what was the end when you loaded it. Dec 03 02:58:22 can you play audio from a contentprovider? Dec 03 02:58:33 that's usually called progressive loading - Flash uses that method pretty heavily. I'm not sure how you'd get the same effect from Android but I'm sure it's possible to write an app that'll do it **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 03 02:59:56 2008