**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 03 02:59:56 2008
Dec 03 03:00:35 <TiberiumX> I could stop, reinitialize, and began from the same point when the end of a partial file is reached, but that sounds a little jarring for the user.
Dec 03 03:12:41 <orci> hi all, i am planning to visit outside USA. thinking about not using t-mobile out there. I'll possibly get a prepaid card from one of the operators there. I was wondering if, I can use my phone if there is no data plan? If yes, is there a map application with downloadable maps (so that no internet connection is required for mapping at least) ?)
Dec 03 03:14:53 <Decavolt> not that I've seen orci
Dec 03 03:15:23 <Decavolt> might want to pick up a Garmin (portable GPS - no data plans needed)
Dec 03 03:15:29 <eldenz> ohmygawd, why does the Music app not support folder.png/jpg whatever or some random image in the folder.. do i really have to REWRITE all the mp3s i put on my sdcard? ridiculous
Dec 03 03:21:07 <CardinalFang> Hi all.  I'm somewhat new to Java and I'm probably spoiled my too much Python.  I intend to make a ListActivity to mirror some collection/list/array/something of objects.  The objects will come and go.  My first attempt, to make an array and "setListAdapter(new ArrayAdapter<...>(...)" means (I think) that I can't append, insert, delete those items.  *sigh*  Okay, so what's the best way?
Dec 03 03:23:13 <CardinalFang> (Is this the right place for dev questions?)
Dec 03 03:24:11 <eldenz> CardinalFang, #android-dev
Dec 03 03:24:23 <CardinalFang> thanks
Dec 03 03:24:24 <bradleyy> CardinalFang: saw a project the other day to port jython to android
Dec 03 03:24:58 <CardinalFang> Yeah, me too.  Haven't tried it.
Dec 03 03:25:50 <CardinalFang> Toodles.
Dec 03 03:57:11 <marix> i wonder if someone made an application that automatically posts a comment in the app store about how much better the iphone is...  They are super fast replying as soon as a new app comes out
Dec 03 04:08:45 <nyt> hm
Dec 03 04:08:51 <nyt> im not listing my app till market gets out of beta
Dec 03 04:08:58 <nyt> since the posters are retarded right now
Dec 03 04:09:10 <nyt> my apps coming along nicely to, glad i'll have some time to work on it again this week
Dec 03 04:09:10 <marix> for money sake or tardo sake?
Dec 03 04:09:15 <nyt> both
Dec 03 04:09:25 <nyt> im serving my app off the web currently
Dec 03 04:09:27 <marix> cool cool,  what are you workign on?
Dec 03 04:09:32 <nyt> irc client
Dec 03 04:09:37 <marix> ah
Dec 03 04:10:03 <marix> yea,  mibbit.com works ok on the browser,  but you cant scroll in either field
Dec 03 04:10:30 <marix> and it disconnects if your phone goes to sleep
Dec 03 04:10:37 <nyt> mine is multiserver
Dec 03 04:10:39 <nyt> doesnt disconnect
Dec 03 04:10:49 <nyt> easy window changing / scrolling / color supporting / awesomeness
Dec 03 04:11:15 <nyt> http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk
Dec 03 04:11:20 <nyt> http://countercultured.net/vids/androidirc.mpg
Dec 03 04:11:23 <nyt> vid of client and thea pk
Dec 03 04:11:45 <marix> need it tested?
Dec 03 04:11:51 <nyt> sure
Dec 03 04:11:53 <nyt> seems pretty stable
Dec 03 04:11:59 <nyt> but the more the merrier
Dec 03 04:12:00 <marix> kk,  lemme load it up
Dec 03 04:13:45 <VJTachyon> hah im on my phone
Dec 03 04:13:56 <VJTachyon> cooooooool
Dec 03 04:14:15 <marix> nice and small too
Dec 03 04:14:18 <sparkle> irssi here from my g1 :p
Dec 03 04:14:27 <DJTachyon> im using the IRCBETA one
Dec 03 04:15:17 <nyt> attaching to a console client is nice, but i normally have a window open at like 90x40
Dec 03 04:15:25 <nyt> doesnt lend itself too well to irc on a mobile
Dec 03 04:15:43 <nyt> this will have notifications and such as ell eventually
Dec 03 04:15:48 <nyt> and more touch interface stuff
Dec 03 04:16:04 <marix-g1> cool cool
Dec 03 04:16:06 <DJTachyon> at least there is a gui for switching chat windows instead of a command line version
Dec 03 04:17:35 <nyt> yeah dragging windows around is nice
Dec 03 04:17:51 <nyt> the camera button is gonna get hijacked for server cycling
Dec 03 04:17:59 <nyt> and the vol buttons well also cycle channels when in irc
Dec 03 04:18:00 <nyt> eventually
Dec 03 04:18:03 <nyt> need to write the code still
Dec 03 04:18:19 <nyt> i've been in C hell the last month writing flow collector stuff
Dec 03 04:21:18 <Versed> nyt is that a newer verson you posted?
Dec 03 04:21:23 * nyt shrugs
Dec 03 04:21:24 <nyt> prolly
Dec 03 04:21:33 <nyt> i just updated the expiration so
Dec 03 04:21:36 <nyt> it wont stop working for at least a week
Dec 03 04:21:41 <Versed> ok
Dec 03 04:22:40 <Versed> thanks
Dec 03 04:23:44 <orci> hi all, i am planning to visit outside USA. thinking about not using t-mobile out there. I'll possibly get a prepaid card from one of the operators there. I was wondering if, I can use my phone if there is no data plan? If yes, is there a map application with downloadable maps (so that no internet connection is required for mapping at least) ?)
Dec 03 04:24:04 <sparkle> not that i know of orci
Dec 03 04:24:14 <jbq> the built-in maps app won't work without network access.
Dec 03 04:24:25 <sparkle> i mean, you can get lat/long
Dec 03 04:24:35 <sparkle> but not streets
Dec 03 04:24:48 <orci> yeah, that why I was looking for an app with downloaded maps
Dec 03 04:25:02 <Versed> does tomtom work on the g1?
Dec 03 04:25:39 <orci> if i am not mistaken there are free maps out there one app could use
Dec 03 04:25:57 <Leeds> orci: where are you going?
Dec 03 04:26:04 <orci> I mean one free app could use
Dec 03 04:26:09 <orci> Leeds, to turkey
Dec 03 04:26:20 <marix> you guys ever watch dexter?
Dec 03 04:26:40 <adoleo> marix:  Dexter = awesome, but that's off-topic
Dec 03 04:26:49 <Leeds> hmm... you can get good free downloadable maps of turkey?
Dec 03 04:27:40 <orci> Leeds, I would guess so
Dec 03 04:27:50 <Leeds> I would guess not
Dec 03 04:28:04 <marix> heres an interesting article about using the g1 abroad.
Dec 03 04:28:04 <marix> http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/12/tmobile_g1_net_access_cant_be_turned_off_results_in_huge_roaming_costs-2.html
Dec 03 04:28:21 <Leeds> it's wrong
Dec 03 04:28:32 <Leeds> I roamed with my G1 last week, and it didn't ping
Dec 03 04:28:56 <marix> so maybe the guy is just a nub
Dec 03 04:29:37 <Leeds> I'm pretty sure that the "don't do data while roaming" switch works...
Dec 03 04:30:32 <jbq> The notion of roaming is so complex that it's hard to make general statements.
Dec 03 04:31:20 <Leeds> jbq: "not on home network" is pretty simple, isn't it?
Dec 03 04:31:54 <jbq> Leeds: it would be if each operator wasn't operating multiple networks.
Dec 03 04:32:17 <Leeds> ah, not the case here - I guess that results from mergers of regional operators?
Dec 03 04:32:57 <RyeBrye> Anyone running a 2.6.27 kernel on their G1? I'm interested in it in particular because of this commit: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=commit;h=1d11c16b50d26dde99d224d741e0f34170476415 - "[ARM] msm: clock: Enable ondemand cpufreq scaling"
Dec 03 04:33:24 <marix> fancy
Dec 03 04:33:45 <Leeds> ondemand is good
Dec 03 04:33:59 <jbq> There are 7 different GSM "countries" in the US (so you can't rely on that), and 18 different T-Mobile networks in the US alone.
Dec 03 04:34:00 <RyeBrye> Yeah, ondemand should help battery life
Dec 03 04:35:07 <Leeds> that's appalling
Dec 03 04:37:14 <Nafai> What's the best video player for android?
Dec 03 04:38:28 <spikebike> heh, seems like a natural progression
Dec 03 04:38:49 <spikebike> didn't tmo just slurp up a bunch of smaller folks... voice stream?
Dec 03 04:39:12 <marix> voicestream was sprint originally
Dec 03 04:39:34 <RyeBrye> but isn't tmobile using voicestream ontheir wap setup still?
Dec 03 04:39:46 <marix> yup
Dec 03 04:40:01 <marix> but they have 2 other waps i believe
Dec 03 04:40:04 <spikebike> my at&t phone (before the at&t -> cingular -> at&t) would only use the voice stream network (gsm)
Dec 03 04:40:46 <spikebike> so my phone would display voicestream all the time
Dec 03 04:41:10 <marix> i roam on cingular sometimes w/ my blackberry
Dec 03 04:41:18 <marix> never seen it w/ the g1 though
Dec 03 04:41:23 <RyeBrye> Anyone know which phones have spec'ed out to use the Elan 8232 touchscreen? - it's got a driver in the android msm kernel now
Dec 03 04:41:40 <RyeBrye> and... not unlike the Synaptics driver - this one also has crap for 2 fingers
Dec 03 04:42:00 <RyeBrye> oh... nm....  it's HTC apparently
Dec 03 04:42:11 <marix> i wonder if that was a apple thing where google chose not to step on toes
Dec 03 04:42:14 <RyeBrye> (I just read the header of the file)
Dec 03 04:42:50 <marix> i can't imagine patents are owned that cover multitouch input still
Dec 03 05:00:59 <RyeBrye> Are a lot of the functions in the akm8976 not being used right now? Like the step count / pedometer - or the temperature sensor (is this independent of the battery temp sensor?) I take it the compass unit is also what provides the accelerometer for the phone, right? (since it has the 3-axis accelerometer data in it too)?
Dec 03 05:04:30 <jbq> At this point the driver only publishes 3-axis accelerometer + 3-axis magnetometer.
Dec 03 05:04:44 <RyeBrye> the kernel driver or the userspace driver?
Dec 03 05:04:44 <jbq> (and some user-space code to process the data).
Dec 03 05:05:31 <RyeBrye> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=blob;f=drivers/i2c/chips/akm8976.c;h=8c03165bccfd7a9b4efa79648d21cb9750ed40a1;hb=aa5b407d67cd4b665955453388d2a02930ba1643 The kernel driver is where I see the pedometer stuff and the thermometer stuff
Dec 03 05:05:58 <jbq> As a general rule, I
Dec 03 05:06:15 <jbq> I'd say that sensors in the current version are, *ahem*, limited and buggy.
Dec 03 05:06:30 <RyeBrye> gotcha
Dec 03 05:06:51 <jbq> (there's been a lot of work done for a future version, it'll be a lot easier to use, both for app writers and for driver writers)
Dec 03 05:07:24 <RyeBrye> Cool
Dec 03 05:07:25 <jbq> (I know, because I did most of the math, and reviewed the code)
Dec 03 05:07:26 <Leeds> my tricorder doesn't work
Dec 03 05:07:51 <Leeds> and I'd be interesting to know how some of the gravity constants were tested :-)
Dec 03 05:08:21 <RyeBrye> The sad thing is, I verified some of those gravity constants
Dec 03 05:08:21 <jbq> Leeds: http://www.google.com/jobs/lunar_job.html
Dec 03 05:08:24 * RyeBrye has a physics degree
Dec 03 05:08:38 <jbq> I can't talk about unannounced office locations, though.
Dec 03 05:09:13 <Leeds> so you can't confirm the existance of the Death Star office?  I would wonder how that fits with "don't be evil"
Dec 03 05:09:37 <RyeBrye> It's interesting to see the elan touchscreen driver be committed to the android tree... since... 1: It's tagged by HTC at the top of it, and 2: Elan isn't in the OHA like Synaptics is
Dec 03 05:10:02 <jbq> I can't confirm whether I have visited the Death Star office whose existence I can't confirm either.
Dec 03 05:10:08 * RyeBrye bets $50 on the next android phone also being an HTC phone 
Dec 03 05:10:30 * ttuttle says nothing.
Dec 03 05:10:34 <RyeBrye> be "android phone" I mean "official" android phone, of course
Dec 03 05:10:56 <ttuttle> "official"? It's open-source.
Dec 03 05:11:09 <ttuttle> Anyone can make a phone with it.
Dec 03 05:11:15 <RyeBrye> Yeah, but only people who pay can get the cool shit
Dec 03 05:12:14 * RyeBrye looks around for that page talking about one of the map views that is only available to people who license it for their android phone
Dec 03 05:32:07 <Nafai> Any hints on how to bookmark the delicious bookmarklets in the browser?
Dec 03 05:48:11 <Milad> Hi android has a linux terminal ?
Dec 03 05:48:47 <Damm> Milad, adb shell... the market
Dec 03 05:50:40 <Milad> Damm, what do you mean ? I want buy G1 and I am newbie, what's the market ?
Dec 03 05:51:17 <Damm> Milad, go to a T-Mobile store and play with it... you'll see
Dec 03 05:52:09 <Milad> tnx :)
Dec 03 05:55:19 <DarkriftX> damn, no ftp with busybox
Dec 03 05:55:25 <DarkriftX> guess ill have to figure out ftpput :s
Dec 03 05:57:28 <sparkle> DarkriftX: get openssh loaded! :)
Dec 03 05:59:58 <DarkriftX> i installed debian, but not sure the exact steps to reload it
Dec 03 06:01:01 <Nafai> adb shell is fun :)
Dec 03 06:01:03 <sparkle> where are you stuck?
Dec 03 06:01:29 <DarkriftX> well, i installed debian, installed openssh, but when i rebooted, it unloaded debian
Dec 03 06:01:39 <DarkriftX> the files are still there, but do i need to do all of the commands again?
Dec 03 06:01:51 <DarkriftX> to remount the debian image
Dec 03 06:02:51 <sparkle> you should probably make a script
Dec 03 06:02:56 <sparkle> that remounts things and starts up openssh
Dec 03 06:03:04 <sparkle> i can show you the one i have if you want
Dec 03 06:03:13 <DarkriftX> sure
Dec 03 06:03:22 <sparkle> but you'd need to customize it some, i don't use a loopback mount
Dec 03 06:03:36 <DarkriftX> i know my way around sh scripts, but i dont fully understand everything that is done, so i wouldnt want to mess it up
Dec 03 06:04:40 <Nafai> Is the bluetooth stack available to the developers?
Dec 03 06:05:01 <Gary|tp> not yet
Dec 03 06:05:09 <gambler> Nafai, its not working yet.
Dec 03 06:07:16 <sparkle> http://208.106.5.222/unistart.sh.txt
Dec 03 06:07:22 <sparkle> be gentle, that's served from my phone :)
Dec 03 06:08:09 <Nafai> gambler: Okay, just curious
Dec 03 06:08:10 <gambler> sparkle, whoa ...how
Dec 03 06:08:21 <sparkle> gambler: lighttpd
Dec 03 06:08:44 <gambler> sparkle, er but through TMO's network or some other way
Dec 03 06:09:02 <sparkle> you probably want to change the first "busybox mount" if you're using a loopback mount
Dec 03 06:09:18 <sparkle> my wifi at home
Dec 03 06:09:25 <gambler> ah ok got it
Dec 03 06:09:26 <sparkle> when i'm not at home i tunnel back to my home net though
Dec 03 06:09:37 <sparkle> it's actually really handy just rnuning on localhost
Dec 03 06:09:44 <sparkle> that way i can fire cgi scripts by clicking in the browser
Dec 03 06:09:47 <sparkle> works beautifully
Dec 03 06:10:02 <gambler> cool
Dec 03 06:12:33 <jbq> nice :)
Dec 03 06:13:42 * DarkriftX diggs sparkle's txt file and throws it on /.
Dec 03 06:15:26 <sparkle> :p
Dec 03 06:15:31 <DarkriftX> :S
Dec 03 06:15:41 <DarkriftX> im going to give up on your sh now.....
Dec 03 06:17:33 <DarkriftX> !pastebin
Dec 03 06:17:50 <paulproteus> Can you downgrade a phone to an earlier OTA than the one currently installed?
Dec 03 06:17:58 <paulproteus> Do the instructions at http://www.android-unleashed.com/2008/10/howto-manual-ota-update-instructions.html work for downgrading, by any chance?
Dec 03 06:18:03 * paulproteus waves at ieatlint 
Dec 03 06:18:19 <Milad> when I bought G1 in the phone I will have access the market  ? there is any tools there ?
Dec 03 06:18:21 <DarkriftX> http://pastebin.com/d273d3b6f
Dec 03 06:18:24 <RyeBrye> paulproteus - nope.
Dec 03 06:18:40 <ttuttle> Milad: Um, if you buy a G1 it will come with the Market app.
Dec 03 06:18:44 <DarkriftX> sparkle: think that will work for me? its basically all the commands to set it up originally except for file commands that dont seem to need to be redone
Dec 03 06:18:45 <ttuttle> Milad: I'm not sure what you mean by "tools"
Dec 03 06:19:23 <RyeBrye> There is a farmers market near my house, but it is closed now. They didn't sell any tools, just produce.
Dec 03 06:19:42 <Milad> ttuttle, I mean Market app :) , and APPs are open source or close source ? or both ? :D
Dec 03 06:20:28 <jbq> Market is Google-proprietary, closed-source, closed-protocol.
Dec 03 06:21:15 <RyeBrye> jbq - is there a page somewhere that lists the google-proprietary goodies that are available only to people who license them for use on their phones?
Dec 03 06:21:44 <ttuttle> Milad: jbq is right -- Market is completely proprietary.  In terms of apps available *in* the Market, some are open-source, some are closed.  There's no requirement one way or the other.
Dec 03 06:22:28 <RyeBrye> well... by "people who license them" I mean "people who buy phones from manufacturers who license the stuff to put it on the phone"
Dec 03 06:22:50 <jbq> RyeBrye: I don't know the exact list. I know there's the setup wizard, gmail, the contacts back-end, youtube, market, gtalk, the update system, and I must be missing some.
Dec 03 06:23:13 <RyeBrye> I thought there was something with maps, but I couldn't find it again for the life of me
Dec 03 06:23:13 <spikebike> widgets
Dec 03 06:23:20 <jbq> oh, yeah, maps.
Dec 03 06:23:26 <sparkle> DarkriftX: file commands?
Dec 03 06:24:14 <DarkriftX> cp, symlink etc
Dec 03 06:24:16 <DarkriftX> stuff that persisted
Dec 03 06:24:24 <RyeBrye> Yeah, so Steve Balmer can take his "no revenue model" quote and blow it out his ass - that sounds like a pretty reasonable revenue model to me... I have no idea how much Google charges to license that - but it's clearly greater than $0
Dec 03 06:24:44 <Milad> ttuttle, and open source app fee is free ? I am in country which can not pay money through web
Dec 03 06:25:03 <ttuttle> Milad: Uh, not necessarily.
Dec 03 06:25:08 <ttuttle> Milad: Developers can charge whatever they like.
Dec 03 06:25:24 <ttuttle> Milad: Open source apps are not free by definition.  They simply come with source code, and you're free to share them.
Dec 03 06:25:54 <ttuttle> Milad: Also, right now, all apps are free.
Dec 03 06:26:34 <Milad> ttuttle, how to get them *if* they are free ? :)
Dec 03 06:26:47 <DarkriftX> i *think* it wokred
Dec 03 06:26:48 <ttuttle> Milad: Um, go to the market and download them?
Dec 03 06:26:57 <DarkriftX> whats the best way to tell sparkle?
Dec 03 06:26:59 <ttuttle> Milad: It's pretty straightforward.
Dec 03 06:27:05 <RyeBrye> Well... all apps can be downloaded for free from the market - but a couple of them I've seen want you to pay them money to keep working. (GasBot wanting $7 a year to look up gas prices from websites seems a little absurd to me)
Dec 03 06:27:12 <DarkriftX> well, i guess apt would be a good test lol
Dec 03 06:27:19 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Oh yeah, there's that :-\
Dec 03 06:27:22 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: /me finds that irritating.
Dec 03 06:27:24 <Milad> ttuttle,  www.android.com/market/ ?
Dec 03 06:27:39 <ttuttle> Milad: I don't know.  Look and see.
Dec 03 06:27:43 <jbq> RyeBrye: that's against the market terms of service, FWIW.
Dec 03 06:27:52 <ttuttle> jbq: BANHAMMER!
Dec 03 06:28:09 <RyeBrye> jbq - Really? Cool. It's super annoying and should not be allowed
Dec 03 06:28:13 <DarkriftX> woot
Dec 03 06:28:18 <DarkriftX> installing ncftp via apt-get on my g1
Dec 03 06:28:25 <DarkriftX> that just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside :)
Dec 03 06:28:36 <Milad> ttuttle, tnx :)
Dec 03 06:29:34 <RyeBrye> There are a few things I can see paying subscriptions for for software - and crap that goes on my phone is likely never going to be one of them
Dec 03 06:29:46 <sparkle> ahh
Dec 03 06:30:05 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Yeah.  It's usually the sort of software you'd be willing to pay $x for, and they want you to pay $x (or $x/2 or $x/3) per month, just so they can make more money.
Dec 03 06:30:05 <sparkle> DarkriftX: the file commands that operate in the root filesystem will need to be redone
Dec 03 06:30:12 <sparkle> as root is recreated from scratch at boot
Dec 03 06:30:24 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: I can understand if it's something like streaming radio where it requires a significant server-side investment, bus GasBot doesn't really.
Dec 03 06:30:49 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - yeah - the subscription is for the data, not the app in that case. GasBot clearly is not running whatever service it's getting the data from.
Dec 03 06:31:03 * DarkriftX has ncftp running :)
Dec 03 06:31:10 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Ah.
Dec 03 06:31:20 <Gary|tp> there's an ftp app on the market, btw
Dec 03 06:32:09 <TiberiumX> I think my price threshold for phone software is about $3.
Dec 03 06:32:20 <RyeBrye> agreed
Dec 03 06:32:22 <Gary|tp> mine depends on what it does
Dec 03 06:32:28 <Gary|tp> and how easy it is to crack :)
Dec 03 06:33:52 <RyeBrye> I would pay around $20 or $30 for TomTom on Android if it came out - but nowhere near the $90 they charge for it on other mobile platforms
Dec 03 06:34:04 <RyeBrye> since oyu can get an entire dedicated GPS unit for that much
Dec 03 06:34:41 <TiberiumX> I wonder how cracking java apps is in relative difficulty?  Probably not a lot you could do to trip up debuggers.  How high-level is the byte-code?
Dec 03 06:35:16 <DarkriftX> aww crap
Dec 03 06:35:18 <RyeBrye> it wouldn't be too hard I imagine - you'd just have to get really familiar with dex bytecode
Dec 03 06:35:27 <DarkriftX> my /data folder isnt accessible from debian
Dec 03 06:35:32 <DarkriftX> can that be fixed sparkle?
Dec 03 06:36:10 <TiberiumX> Yeah, I'd probably just buy something designed to work well in my car (i.e. mounting solution, loud speaker, brighter/larger display).
Dec 03 06:36:11 <Gary|tp> TiberiumX: Talked to someone who has done the cracking before, apparently the byte code is a lot like java. all you have to do is modify bytecode and resign with your own keys
Dec 03 06:36:28 <Gary|tp> Yeah, I'd pay $30 for TomTom.
Dec 03 06:36:34 <Gary|tp> $90? no.
Dec 03 06:42:22 <TiberiumX> Hey, how have they released modified updates for this phone?  Do they not sign against the whole update?
Dec 03 06:49:01 <Gary|tp> TiberiumX: Root exploit was found on certain firmwares. With root, we can flash the file that the updater uses as keys to check the signing.
Dec 03 06:49:11 <Gary|tp> They then sign the update with their own keys and apply it.
Dec 03 06:49:34 <bradleyy_> certain firmwares != RC30 :(
Dec 03 06:51:00 <TiberiumX> Ahh, okay.
Dec 03 06:52:02 <Nafai> Is there a way of writing applications that integrate with the browser?
Dec 03 06:52:09 <Nafai> Say, if I wanted to write a delicious tool?
Dec 03 06:52:14 <RyeBrye> I want a delicious tool
Dec 03 06:52:33 <DarkriftX> lol
Dec 03 06:52:44 <BHSPitMonkey> Nafai, you're not allowed to omit the periods
Dec 03 06:52:50 <DarkriftX> "<RyeBrye> I want a delicious tool" in any other context would be laughed at
Dec 03 06:52:55 <RyeBrye> :)
Dec 03 06:53:54 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye: do you know how i make /data visible inside debian?
Dec 03 06:54:06 <DarkriftX> the --rebind didnt work, is there something else i can try?
Dec 03 06:54:13 <Nafai> BHSPitMonkey: Unfortunately, they haven't recently :( www.delicious.com
Dec 03 06:54:14 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - no, I haven't used debian on it much
Dec 03 06:54:34 <BHSPitMonkey> Nafai, you were supposed to respond 3 lines earlier.
Dec 03 06:55:04 <BHSPitMonkey> Instead, you let the beautiful nick symmetry break
Dec 03 06:55:18 * Nafai hangs head in shame
Dec 03 06:55:33 <DarkriftX> lol
Dec 03 06:55:43 <DarkriftX> BHSPitMonkey must be on xchat
Dec 03 06:56:05 <BHSPitMonkey> DarkriftX, I am, though the symmetry would still be faintly visible in flush-left clients
Dec 03 06:56:26 <DarkriftX> yeah
Dec 03 06:57:10 <DarkriftX> oh well, guess im done playing for now
Dec 03 06:57:19 <DarkriftX> ill go watch house and figure it out later
Dec 03 07:06:50 <bradleyy_> exit
Dec 03 07:50:24 <tauno> "Matrix does not have a constructor, so it must be explicitly initialized.." a few lines down: Public Constructors: Matrix(), Matrix(Matrix src)
Dec 03 07:57:33 <sparkle> SS/win 3
Dec 03 08:19:33 <anno^da_> I'm getting crazy about the access to the sd card
Dec 03 08:20:09 <sparkle> mm?
Dec 03 08:21:11 <anno^da_> I dont know but for me it is really hard to get the cover open
Dec 03 08:21:47 <anno^da_> and I wouldnt say that I have big fingers :)
Dec 03 08:26:01 <anno^da_> boah thats something that is really annoying *g
Dec 03 08:27:06 <spikebike> are you doing it right?
Dec 03 08:28:16 <anno^da_> Well I thinks so. Opening the keyboard and pulling it off right ?
Dec 03 08:28:34 <anno^da_> (I dont know the exact english term :) )
Dec 03 08:29:38 <orci> strongly offtopic, I have a 12 hour waiting time between flights at heathrow, is it comfortable? can I sleep there?
Dec 03 08:32:01 <anno^da_> Does somebody know a way to switch off synching with Locale? During the night this could save battery and while I'm sleeping I don't need any synching at all. :-)
Dec 03 08:32:59 <anno^da_> I know that I could create a shortcut with AnyCut but this wouldnt switch to the night "behaviour" automatically.
Dec 03 08:35:44 <Leeds> orci: it's nasty
Dec 03 08:35:53 <Leeds> anno^da_: *why* are you opening the microSD door so much?
Dec 03 08:38:53 <orci> Leeds, I should avoid heathrow then, thanks
Dec 03 08:44:35 <kennyyu> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/585675
Dec 03 08:44:44 <kennyyu> i get this error while building
Dec 03 08:44:48 <kennyyu> can someone help? thanks
Dec 03 08:55:32 <tric> kennyyu: you are missing zlib.h, prolly zlib1g-dev or something like that
Dec 03 08:56:15 <anno^da_> Leeds: because the G1 is not mounting any more on the desktop.
Dec 03 08:56:45 <anno^da_> And so I have to get the sd card out for some seconds but cant get the cover open. :/
Dec 03 08:57:11 <anno^da_> In addition after one day of playing with the G1 the memory for apps is full. :P
Dec 03 08:57:15 <spikebike> ummm, are you clicking mount after the notification that usb connected?
Dec 03 08:57:44 <anno^da_> yeah I have clicked it. I will try again. Hmm. Yesterday everything worked fine.
Dec 03 08:58:22 <Leeds> anno^da_: windows?
Dec 03 08:58:37 <anno^da_> OSX
Dec 03 08:59:14 <Leeds> ah... what did you change to stop it working?
Dec 03 09:01:09 <anno^da_> Well I'm thinking about it. On the desktop I didnt change anything. On the system well I have installed apps but that cant be the error. Hmm I'm restarting Android now.
Dec 03 09:02:05 <anno^da_> What would be the right method to unmount the G1. Should I do it from the settings of the G1 or from OSX?
Dec 03 09:02:25 <Leeds> from OSX
Dec 03 09:04:17 <anno^da_> Well ok thats the way I did it.
Dec 03 09:04:33 <anno^da_> After a restart I cant get the G1 mounted either. :/
Dec 03 09:05:27 <DarkriftX> i had a prob like tah tonce
Dec 03 09:05:38 <DarkriftX> g1 would show up but mounting would give error and fail
Dec 03 09:05:46 <DarkriftX> i just kept pluggign it in over and over and trying again
Dec 03 09:05:48 <DarkriftX> finally worked
Dec 03 09:05:57 <spikebike> I had to tweak ubuntu from some google page to get automoutn working
Dec 03 09:06:07 <spikebike> but when I clicked on the dialog saysing usb attached now what
Dec 03 09:06:17 <spikebike> if I clicked mount it would show up in dmesg
Dec 03 09:06:27 <spikebike> and I could manually mount it from the desktop
Dec 03 09:07:07 <Leeds> I didn't have to do anything at all, on slackware and debian
Dec 03 09:09:38 <anno^da_> Well yeah yesterday everything worked out of the box as well. Now let me update to the latest system update since I didnt have the time yesterday. (I had to play with it. :) )
Dec 03 09:10:25 <sparkle> one thing
Dec 03 09:10:37 <sparkle> the g1 doesn't work on usb 1.1 ports
Dec 03 09:10:41 <sparkle> only usb2
Dec 03 09:10:49 <sparkle> at least not properly
Dec 03 09:13:02 <spikebike> oh, news to me
Dec 03 09:13:10 <spikebike> RC19 and RC29 "just worked" for me
Dec 03 09:13:20 <spikebike> nfi what usb port version is
Dec 03 09:13:28 <spikebike> rc30 requires some google directed tweaks
Dec 03 09:14:49 <anno^da_> I'm at RC19 since I havent updated. (got it yesterday)
Dec 03 09:15:18 <spikebike> don't accept any offered upgrades
Dec 03 09:15:23 <spikebike> unless you don't want root
Dec 03 09:15:30 <anno^da_> I know :)
Dec 03 09:15:36 <DarkriftX> android-dls.com/wiki now!
Dec 03 09:15:40 <anno^da_> I havent got any offers till now.
Dec 03 09:15:48 <anno^da_> DarkriftX: I have it open ;)
Dec 03 09:15:49 <DarkriftX> read "rooting android" adn then keeping root and do it!
Dec 03 09:15:54 <Leeds> anno^da_: you will
Dec 03 09:16:00 <DarkriftX> you will hateyourself if you dont do it now
Dec 03 09:16:05 <DarkriftX> they will force the update on you soon
Dec 03 09:16:12 <anno^da_> Leeds: I know. I have read all the wikis days ago. :D
Dec 03 09:17:45 <anno^da_> Do I have to add busybox right after the rooting or is it bundled in the custom RC30 update?
Dec 03 09:17:55 <DarkriftX> its bundled
Dec 03 09:18:00 <anno^da_> fine.
Dec 03 09:20:34 <kennyyu_> tric: so i should apt-get install it?
Dec 03 09:22:20 <kennyyu_> thanks tric. i've just installed it
Dec 03 09:22:23 * kennyyu_ is making
Dec 03 09:23:08 <anno^da_> So I'm root now but I have to get the G1 mounted now. Coming back to the problem :D. So lets try to open the sd card slot *g
Dec 03 09:23:48 <spikebike> if you haven't found the video on how to open I'd google for it
Dec 03 09:23:55 <spikebike> there's definitely a trick to it
Dec 03 09:27:16 <anno^da_> I got it open now. I will search for the video as well. Thank you. If you got it some where just paste the link.
Dec 03 09:28:05 <anno^da_> for the mounting I'm going now to the Ubuntu machine
Dec 03 09:28:10 <anno^da_> lets see if it works there
Dec 03 09:37:01 <anno^da_> ubuntu mounts it directly :/
Dec 03 09:38:44 <anno^da_> DarkriftX: The recovery image that you can download from your wiki has only a size of 124kb
Dec 03 09:39:05 <DarkriftX> all the files work, i downloaded them myself to root mine
Dec 03 09:39:21 <DarkriftX> whats the filename? ill check it via ftp
Dec 03 09:39:30 <anno^da_> Yeah I know I have downloaded it yesterday
Dec 03 09:39:35 <anno^da_> and it was bigger
Dec 03 09:39:38 <anno^da_> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Replace_Recovery_Partition
Dec 03 09:39:56 <DarkriftX> filename?
Dec 03 09:40:16 <anno^da_> AndroidMod.zip
Dec 03 09:40:40 <DarkriftX> should be .XXX
Dec 03 09:41:41 <anno^da_> well I've just taken the link from your wiki. Yesterday the same link brought me to a bigger file. (4,6 MB)
Dec 03 09:41:55 <spikebike> wow handycalc ispretty awesome
Dec 03 09:42:21 <DarkriftX> someone edited the wiki and changed the link
Dec 03 09:42:46 <DarkriftX> try again
Dec 03 09:42:48 <DarkriftX> fixed link
Dec 03 09:43:15 <anno^da_> thanks. I just wanted to let you know. :-)
Dec 03 09:43:19 <DarkriftX> thx
Dec 03 09:43:24 <DarkriftX> i deleted the bad file
Dec 03 09:43:28 <DarkriftX> just incase lol
Dec 03 09:43:32 <anno^da_> :-)
Dec 03 09:43:37 <DarkriftX> ftp doesnt have a copy command?
Dec 03 09:46:12 <spikebike> some have rename
Dec 03 09:46:23 <spikebike> neere seen copy
Dec 03 09:46:25 <sparkle> yeah spikebike i really like it
Dec 03 09:47:36 <kennyyu> hi, when building android, bison is a must?
Dec 03 09:48:29 <Leeds> why would you *not* have bison?
Dec 03 09:48:45 <spikebike> .me nods
Dec 03 09:49:21 <kennyyu> ;) i don't know but my Ubuntu does not have it
Dec 03 09:49:47 <Leeds> then install it - if that's missing, there are probably a lot of other things you will need to install
Dec 03 09:49:49 <kennyyu> as well as zlib1g-dev
Dec 03 09:50:04 <Leeds> I detest -dev packages
Dec 03 09:50:13 <kennyyu> ah..?
Dec 03 09:50:48 <kennyyu> tric told me to install it before. but if not, what should be the alternative?
Dec 03 09:51:15 <Leeds> install it
Dec 03 09:51:19 <Leeds> there is no alternative
Dec 03 09:52:04 <kennyyu> oh alright ;)
Dec 03 09:52:59 <kennyyu> i suggest we can perhaps include these in the documentation in the long run? :)
Dec 03 09:53:53 <Leeds> I think "you must have basic development tools installed" probably counts as implied
Dec 03 09:54:46 <kennyyu> Leeds: oh i just have discovered that the documentation has included these
Dec 03 09:55:00 <kennyyu> strange. i must have missed that step carelessly....
Dec 03 09:55:12 <kIDDAI> shame on you :)
Dec 03 09:56:22 <kennyyu> kIDDAI: heh really embarrassing :P
Dec 03 10:04:10 * kennyyu has his source building
Dec 03 10:04:13 <kennyyu> seems going smoothly :)
Dec 03 10:08:09 <anno^da_> can someone confirm that ShopSavvy is only available in the US ?
Dec 03 10:08:22 <anno^da_> (mounting works now after restarting the macbook pro)
Dec 03 10:09:40 <rip_> whts the functionality of audioflinger ?
Dec 03 10:18:29 <anno^da_> Hmm when I try logging into my G1 with su I get "permission denied". For rooting (RC19) I did the following. Restarted the G1. Typing "telnetd" - Pressed Enter. Started the Android telnet app and pushed connect (localhost 23)
Dec 03 10:19:24 <xsdg> rip_: the audioflinger combines sounds and sends them to the output device, I believe (not 100% positive)
Dec 03 10:19:43 <xsdg> rip_: I believe it does routing also, but I'm even more shaky on that
Dec 03 10:20:47 <sparkle> anno^da_: what do you mean by "logging in with su"?
Dec 03 10:21:05 <anno^da_> well adb shell
Dec 03 10:21:57 <anno^da_> and su from the osx console
Dec 03 10:22:22 <anno^da_> while the g1 is connected via USB
Dec 03 10:24:25 <sparkle> what update have you installed?
Dec 03 10:24:44 <anno^da_> I got RC 19 installed at the moment. (1.0)
Dec 03 10:26:08 <sparkle> so you haven't applied any other firmware updates
Dec 03 10:26:10 <sparkle> ?
Dec 03 10:26:17 <anno^da_> No I havent applied any other updates.
Dec 03 10:26:31 <sparkle> adb won't let you in as root with rc19
Dec 03 10:26:32 <anno^da_> (got it yesterday from the US and the version info says RC19)
Dec 03 10:26:34 <sparkle> unless you change things
Dec 03 10:27:01 <anno^da_> Well I thought that the way described above is enough to obtain root.
Dec 03 10:27:11 <anno^da_> this one: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Rooting_Android
Dec 03 10:28:05 <sparkle> su isn't provided with rc19
Dec 03 10:28:17 <sparkle> only the third-party distributions (jesusfreke and saurik) have it included
Dec 03 10:28:35 <sparkle> look up how to flash your recovery partition and then how to update to a modified rc30
Dec 03 10:28:39 <sparkle> then everything will be much easier
Dec 03 10:28:44 <sparkle> and you get in as root with adb
Dec 03 10:29:22 <sparkle> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443041
Dec 03 10:29:26 <anno^da_> Well to flash the recovery partition I need root. (from my understanding of the wikis)
Dec 03 10:29:27 <rip_> i want to know the details of audioflinger is there any ways to get the logs of audio flinger ?
Dec 03 10:29:31 <sparkle> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713
Dec 03 10:29:33 <sparkle> right
Dec 03 10:29:35 <rip_> How should i proceed with tht ?
Dec 03 10:29:48 <sparkle> anno^da_: the way to get root is to start up telnetd from the handset
Dec 03 10:29:56 <rip_> i want to know the details of audioflinger is there any ways to get the logs of audio flinger ?
Dec 03 10:29:57 <rip_> How should i proceed with tht ?
Dec 03 10:30:01 <sparkle> and then telnet to the phone - forget adb for the moment
Dec 03 10:32:59 <mikey|> is there anyway to set a hint on an editText preference?
Dec 03 10:34:03 <mikey|> heh, nvm
Dec 03 10:39:05 <DarkriftX> fuck
Dec 03 10:39:12 <DarkriftX> sd isnt mounting right
Dec 03 10:39:23 <DarkriftX> so i forced it and now it wont umount
Dec 03 10:39:45 <DarkriftX> device is busy :S
Dec 03 10:40:54 <anno^da_> :P
Dec 03 11:06:45 <spikebike> cool
Dec 03 11:07:06 <spikebike> c code is sending XMPP messages (over ssl) to my g1
Dec 03 11:07:14 <spikebike> step #1 to world domination is now complete
Dec 03 11:07:20 * spikebike sleeps
Dec 03 11:14:01 <mikey|> when the prefs screen is defined via an xml file, how do I access the preference values from inside my classes?
Dec 03 11:17:31 <mikey|> gah, nvm, got it sorted lol
Dec 03 11:36:11 <anno^da_> sparkle
Dec 03 11:36:18 <anno^da_> got it working now thank you. :-)
Dec 03 11:36:30 <anno^da_> RC30 modified is up and running fine.
Dec 03 11:37:23 <sparkle> cool
Dec 03 11:37:36 <sparkle> do you have much unix experience?
Dec 03 11:38:41 <anno^da_> well I'm working with Ubuntu but thats all. I know the basic things but not thaaat much. But I'm learning every da :-)
Dec 03 11:40:30 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 11:40:36 <kennyyu__> sorry... may i know how long approximately should i expect my building process to finish? it seems it's been taking part for at least 1-2 hours...
Dec 03 11:43:36 <anno^da_> But now I can finally test my applications. :-)
Dec 03 11:44:02 <sparkle> :)
Dec 03 11:44:04 <sparkle> what kind of apps?
Dec 03 11:46:26 <anno^da_> oh some social media stuff. Being able write blog entries in your Tumblr Blog. (storing media files automatically at flickr, vimeo etc. and announcing the posts via Twitter, Technorati etc.)
Dec 03 11:47:17 <anno^da_> I'm curious if the app will run like in the emulator :)
Dec 03 11:47:52 <sparkle> emulator - you mean the virtual machine
Dec 03 11:47:53 <anno^da_> But before Im testing I have to get something to eat.
Dec 03 11:48:07 <anno^da_> Yeah I mean the VM :)
Dec 03 12:04:33 <blau> good morning
Dec 03 12:05:57 <blau> grrr
Dec 03 12:08:22 <tauno> good afternoon
Dec 03 12:11:14 <blau> having problems with phonestatelistener
Dec 03 12:11:27 <blau> i dont understand why they didnt just let us use a broadcast receiver
Dec 03 12:15:57 <blau> they removed the phonestateintentreceiver from .9 wtf
Dec 03 12:19:57 <gambler> anno^da_, you got  your handset?
Dec 03 12:20:39 <blau> anyone a java programmer?
Dec 03 12:25:10 <tric> blau: got or is, or knows java?
Dec 03 12:25:31 <tric> cause i know java, but currently im a android developer ;)
Dec 03 12:26:22 <blau> tric: youll do
Dec 03 12:26:33 <tric> maybe
Dec 03 12:26:35 <blau> im not sure if this is even my actual problem
Dec 03 12:26:44 <blau> but i think android is killing off the phonestatlistener i create
Dec 03 12:27:01 <blau> all i know is that on boot, i register it so i can get notified of calls
Dec 03 12:27:06 <blau> eventually it stops working
Dec 03 12:27:33 <blau> i was assuming android killed it to free resources
Dec 03 12:27:40 <blau> does that sound logical?
Dec 03 12:28:00 <tric> phonestatlistener is what exactly? a service? activity?
Dec 03 12:28:22 <blau> neither
Dec 03 12:28:32 <blau> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/PhoneStateListener.html
Dec 03 12:28:51 <blau> i dont understand why they went this method since it doesnt jive with how this stuff is handled in android in general
Dec 03 12:29:04 <blau> and they used to have a receiver for phone state info
Dec 03 12:29:09 <blau> but killed it in sdk .9
Dec 03 12:29:49 <JuanDaugherty> *jibe
Dec 03 12:30:01 <tric> hmm, ic. and you are using this listener in an activity? and what exactly happens? afaik an object cannot be killed/removed by android/zygote
Dec 03 12:31:00 <blau> im passing it to http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/TelephonyManager.html#listen(android.telephony.PhoneStateListener, int)
Dec 03 12:31:10 <blau> its created in an activity
Dec 03 12:31:29 <JuanDaugherty> jive is either a designation of an american slang dialect or a general categorization of something as bullshit
Dec 03 12:31:49 <blau> it definately exists for a while once the activiy ends
Dec 03 12:31:56 <blau> juan: thanks, i reallly always thought it was jive
Dec 03 12:32:39 <JuanDaugherty> yeah, I see it a lot, English is the defacto net language but not that many have it as a first lang.
Dec 03 12:33:37 <JuanDaugherty> (i.e. I see jive for jibe)
Dec 03 12:33:57 <tric> blau: and whats your problem with that?
Dec 03 12:34:22 <blau> it only exists for a while :)
Dec 03 12:34:29 <blau> it eventually dissapears or stops responding
Dec 03 12:35:37 <tric> dissapears? either you have a reverence to it or not. but the gc shouldnt kill your object.
Dec 03 12:35:51 <blau> i dont have any references, the telephonymanager should
Dec 03 12:36:05 <blau> unless im not understanding how this works
Dec 03 12:37:46 <blau> is it possible that the reference that telephonymanager has isnt being accounted for by garbage collection?
Dec 03 12:38:47 <tric> well. but you should have a reference to the telephonymanager object
Dec 03 12:40:09 <blau> i give that up as well, but it should exist outside i would think... 	TelephonyManager telephonyManager = (TelephonyManager) aContext.getSystemService(Context.TELEPHONY_SERVICE);
Dec 03 12:40:09 <blau> 		telephonyManager.listen(listener, PhoneStateListener.LISTEN_CALL_STATE); //
Dec 03 12:40:09 <blau> 	
Dec 03 12:40:55 <tric> why should that exist outside? all objects you dont reference can be cleaned up.
Dec 03 12:41:39 <tric> unless telephonyManager is a new process, i dont know the TelephonyManager
Dec 03 12:41:58 <tric> but it looks like a class and not like a service reference
Dec 03 12:52:45 <blau> will look into it more, ive been able to reproduce the problem better now
Dec 03 12:52:56 <eldenz> is there any git GUI client for win32?
Dec 03 12:54:55 <offby1> eldenz: git gui works fine under Cygwin
Dec 03 12:56:37 <eldenz> hokay, i assume there is nothing like tortoisesvn for git
Dec 03 12:56:59 <blau> finalize never seems to get called
Dec 03 12:58:00 <eldenz> hm, will try msysgit
Dec 03 13:01:07 <offby1> eldenz: alas, you're right: nothing like TortoiseSVN for git.
Dec 03 13:01:24 <offby1> There's something like TortoiseSVN for _Mercurial_, but of course that doesn't help any
Dec 03 13:05:18 <eldenz> $ git clone git://android.git.kernel.org/projects;  --> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
Dec 03 13:08:26 <eldenz> hmkay, if i point it directly to a .git file it works ;)
Dec 03 13:09:01 <offby1> not surprisingly
Dec 03 13:09:18 <tric> blau: just watch out for gc messages in logcat and check for t-manager existence after that ;)
Dec 03 13:09:32 <eldenz> (i shall read some git intro tonight)
Dec 03 13:10:58 <blau> tric: just did, and it does seem to die after garbage collection
Dec 03 13:11:14 <blau> guess i need a service to keep it alive :(
Dec 03 13:11:21 <blau> there goes the battery
Dec 03 13:11:23 <eldenz> offby1, it's just that the header on http://android.git.kernel.org says to clone a complete tree you could just submit the *path*
Dec 03 13:15:34 <blau> tric: should finalize() be called though by the gc?
Dec 03 13:18:46 <tric> blau: hmm, finalize() of what? of the listener? maybe. but just write a service that only holds a reference.
Dec 03 13:20:09 <blau> of the listener
Dec 03 13:20:26 <mikey|> hmmm
Dec 03 13:20:31 <blau> because it doesnt seem to be, but im 99% sure its garbage collection now
Dec 03 13:21:09 <mikey|> im launching another class with startActivityForResult, but my on ActivityResult doesnt get called
Dec 03 13:21:24 <blau> tric: thanks for the help, talking it out is always good for me
Dec 03 13:21:44 <blau> i came to the check LogCat conclusion about 5 seconds before I saw you say it lol
Dec 03 13:22:02 <blau> mikey: is onactivityresult spelled right?
Dec 03 13:22:22 <mikey|> >.<, silly typo
Dec 03 13:23:01 <blau> it wa sa type?
Dec 03 13:23:03 <mikey|> but it's still not doing what i wanted, I want to launch my prefs screen, get a callback when it finishes so I can reload the prefs.
Dec 03 13:23:04 <blau> typo
Dec 03 13:23:11 <mikey|> any idea how i can do that?
Dec 03 13:23:22 <blau> whats it not doing?
Dec 03 13:23:40 <mikey|> as soon as I launch the prefs screen, it calls onActivityResult
Dec 03 13:23:48 <mikey|> I want it to wait until the prefs is closed
Dec 03 13:24:25 <blau> oh, hmm
Dec 03 13:24:31 <blau> is it a preferencesactivity?
Dec 03 13:24:31 <mikey|> I followed the example here: http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html
Dec 03 13:24:36 <mikey|> "Returning a Result from a Screen"
Dec 03 13:24:39 <mikey|> yeah
Dec 03 13:25:20 <blau> hmm
Dec 03 13:27:36 <mikey|> I have this in my manifest: android:launchMode="singleInstance", would that make a difference?
Dec 03 13:28:45 <blau> i don tthink so
Dec 03 13:29:24 <mikey|> I suppose I could send a message via a handler when prefs.onDestroy is called :/
Dec 03 13:29:30 <pohamir> so is there anyway to turn on ipv4 forwarding on in the G1? is the kernel even built with support?
Dec 03 13:29:48 <mikey|> connectbot can do forwarding iirc
Dec 03 13:30:25 <pohamir> uh, not what i am looking for
Dec 03 13:30:44 <infernix> pohamir: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444004
Dec 03 13:30:47 <infernix> you need root, though
Dec 03 13:30:50 <pohamir> infernix: thanks
Dec 03 13:30:51 <sparkle> pohamir: sure
Dec 03 13:31:15 <offby1> eldenz: I guess the word "path" is ambiguous.  It would have helped if that header had an example.
Dec 03 13:31:16 <sparkle> you need root access of course
Dec 03 13:31:58 <pohamir> okay sounds good
Dec 03 13:33:04 <blau> mikey: you could do that but theres gotta be some silly mistake not making it work as expected
Dec 03 13:34:51 <pohamir> herm infernix sparkle, was more looking towards mobile network usage instead of wifi :\ but better then nothing
Dec 03 13:37:29 <blau> made a service wheeee
Dec 03 13:38:58 <sparkle> pohamir: what kind of mobile usage?
Dec 03 13:39:53 <pohamir> as in the cell networks instead of wifi
Dec 03 13:40:20 <pohamir> or did i misread that thread
Dec 03 13:41:20 <sparkle> that is using ip forwarding to share an edge or 3g connection over an ad hoc 802.11 network
Dec 03 13:41:28 <pohamir> okay
Dec 03 13:41:30 <pohamir> i read it wrong
Dec 03 13:41:36 <sparkle> there are also some directions for sharing over bluetooth
Dec 03 13:41:40 <sparkle> but there are still some speed issues there
Dec 03 13:41:53 <infernix> pohamir: it behaves as an access point, and gives you access to your 2G/3G line over that
Dec 03 13:42:05 <pohamir> perfect
Dec 03 13:42:07 <infernix> or if not access point, then ad-hoc wifi
Dec 03 13:42:12 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 13:42:21 <pohamir> that was exactly what i was looking for
Dec 03 13:42:23 <sparkle> i don't know if anyone's got wpa_supplicant to encrypt yet
Dec 03 13:42:40 <sparkle> but other than that it's fine
Dec 03 13:43:13 <pohamir> on a differnt note (as in not connected to the last topic), any vpn clients for android yet?
Dec 03 13:43:35 <pohamir> pptp or openvpn, preferably
Dec 03 13:44:13 <pohamir> :]
Dec 03 13:44:39 <sparkle> there was some work done in that direction, i'm trying to remember by whom
Dec 03 13:45:23 <sparkle> someone almost had something working
Dec 03 13:45:43 <sparkle> i just run a script that auto-reconnects an ssh session to another box with port forwarding
Dec 03 13:45:52 <sparkle> it seems to work pretty well
Dec 03 13:46:27 <pohamir> thanks for your help sparkle also infernix
Dec 03 13:46:29 <blau> looks like the service is the way to go!
Dec 03 13:51:42 <mpardo> is there an android equivalent of Audio.CaptureThread?
Dec 03 14:12:20 <tric> blau: about your question: But
Dec 03 14:12:23 <tric> what concerns do I need to have about services dieing?
Dec 03 14:12:35 <tric> services wont be killed by zygote.
Dec 03 14:12:51 <tric> thats the idea of a service.
Dec 03 14:14:55 <jbq_> processes that host services do get killed by the kernel when the memory is necessary.
Dec 03 14:17:23 <DJTachyon> ugh, 125KB/s pipe + XP Remote Desktop + Port 23 + VM Workstation + Kubuntu + Console = Annoying
Dec 03 14:18:12 <DJTachyon> anything i type in the kubuntu konsole while running in vm ware on an xp machine over remote desktop i get multiple keystrokes when i hit a letter
Dec 03 14:19:11 <DJTachyon> who's problem do you think that is? :P
Dec 03 14:26:34 <vol> DJTachyon: that's fun isn't it : (
Dec 03 14:26:59 * vol really wants to just repartition his work machine
Dec 03 14:27:12 <vol> my dev time would FLY if I could do that.
Dec 03 14:28:42 <blau> grr at sendtextmssage not sending to emails
Dec 03 14:28:55 * Disconnect can do whatever he wants to his work box :) beauty of a tiny .com 
Dec 03 14:30:01 <blau> i bet you cant make love to it
Dec 03 14:31:21 <DJTachyon> well im remote'd in to home
Dec 03 14:31:51 <DJTachyon> bah ..wait i drag and dropped an RPM to the kubuntu desktop and that isnt /Desktop ?
Dec 03 14:31:54 <blau> what are your favorite apps for android
Dec 03 14:32:09 <DJTachyon> Solitare ;)
Dec 03 14:32:29 <DJTachyon> AndNav
Dec 03 14:32:34 <DJTachyon> (when it is finished)
Dec 03 14:32:58 <sparkle> connectbot :)
Dec 03 14:33:13 <vol> DJTachyon: mind letting me know how the beta of andnav 2 is?
Dec 03 14:34:15 <DJTachyon> actually i didnt get it sent out last night .. i was just looking into that
Dec 03 14:34:43 <Disconnect> twitdroid. k-9.
Dec 03 14:34:49 <Disconnect> browser, except for eating my storage.
Dec 03 14:35:37 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 14:35:57 <tauno> finished adding navigation to my app - it could have been much easier if google just provided the API for managing directions/routes
Dec 03 14:36:01 <DJTachyon> heh he responded personally to me on his forums .. but didnt send it out .. he told me to drop him a message if i want it
Dec 03 14:36:12 <DJTachyon> tauno .. navigation?
Dec 03 14:36:29 <tauno> err.. I mean.. directions :P
Dec 03 14:36:29 <DJTachyon> not turn by turn i hope ;)
Dec 03 14:36:31 <sparkle> handycalc has me pleasantly surprised
Dec 03 14:36:40 <tauno> turn by turn but not realtime :)
Dec 03 14:37:16 <tauno> I understood that this is not forbidden (;
Dec 03 14:37:20 <blau> you guys were supposed to say that my apps are the best
Dec 03 14:39:24 <infernix> hmm, just noticed "merge calls", can i do a 3 way conversation on a G1?
Dec 03 14:40:27 <sparkle> sure
Dec 03 14:40:40 <blau> yup
Dec 03 14:40:45 <sparkle> most any gsm handset in the last decade can do it
Dec 03 14:41:10 <Disconnect> sparkle: s/gsm//
Dec 03 14:41:33 <sparkle> Disconnect: i work for a prepay cellco, i know how much schlock there is in cdmaland :)
Dec 03 14:41:56 <sparkle> but gsm supported it natively from the beginning
Dec 03 14:42:47 <sparkle> we don't even let our users do call forwarding :p
Dec 03 14:43:36 <Disconnect> wow. you could be billing double minutes for calls that don't even go over radio.. why not?
Dec 03 14:44:29 <sparkle> because it's a prepay - most of our customers are drug pushers, prostitutes and the like :p
Dec 03 14:44:40 <sparkle> and they abuse call forwarding like you would not believe
Dec 03 14:44:59 <blau> lol
Dec 03 14:45:12 <blau> they should just sign up for grandcentral
Dec 03 14:45:39 * sparkle shrugs
Dec 03 14:45:43 <tauno> wait - you guys pay something for callforwarding? huh..
Dec 03 14:45:55 <blau> tmobile charges for call forwarding
Dec 03 14:46:02 <tauno> awww..
Dec 03 14:46:04 <blau> most other us carriers just take mintutes
Dec 03 14:46:31 <Disconnect> blau: i just pay 2x minutes (as if it was going to my phone and dialing out again)
Dec 03 14:46:41 <Disconnect> which is still dumb as fsck but..
Dec 03 14:46:56 <tauno> they don't take anything here.. it's completely free for you and the one who calls, pays the usual stuff.. nothing more.. it's like an usual phone call
Dec 03 14:47:35 <Disconnect> i think its free to do something like that visual vm app where it forwards unanswered calls to a different handler. but standard forwarding is 2x minutes
Dec 03 14:48:02 <Disconnect> so if you are missing with asterisk you want to switch people to calling the pbx number and have that do the (free) forwarding, not the other way around. even if the cell is always the first # rung
Dec 03 14:48:22 <sparkle> tauno: "caller pays" isn't the general rule in the usa where cell phones are concerned
Dec 03 14:48:41 <sparkle> i kind of wish that it was
Dec 03 14:48:55 <Disconnect> its kinda neat that you get to bill twice for sms's tho. (sender and receiver)
Dec 03 14:48:59 <tauno> sparkle, can you explain it a little more? :)
Dec 03 14:49:04 <sparkle> well like
Dec 03 14:49:24 <sparkle> i'm not sure where you are, but i know in many parts of europe, calls to cell phone numbers cost more for the caller
Dec 03 14:49:48 <sparkle> here it's all on the receiver's end
Dec 03 14:50:44 <Disconnect> 99.% of the (residential) landlines are flat-unlimited calling, and most business lines pay about 9 cents per outgoing call (flat minutes). so there is no price difference between calling a cell and calling a landline
Dec 03 14:51:04 <tauno> I'm also in a small country in europe and here only the one who initiates the call pays (the same goes for landline calls and sms/mms)
Dec 03 14:51:09 <Disconnect> its all paid by the receiver (and landline long distance is billed, although thats getting cheaper since most cellphone plans come with free long distance)
Dec 03 14:51:19 <sparkle> well, flat unlimited for local calls anyway
Dec 03 14:51:49 <sparkle> long distance can be structured a lot of different ways
Dec 03 14:52:04 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 14:52:23 <sparkle> i would love it if senders got charged more to call my cell
Dec 03 14:52:28 <sparkle> it might ring less often
Dec 03 14:52:31 <tauno> ..and here almost nobody has a landline anymore - basically only some companies use it "just in case" :)
Dec 03 14:53:18 <tauno> everyone has a cell phone and you pay when you want to call somebody - if you only want to receive calls/SMS, then it's totally free for you
Dec 03 14:53:57 <tauno> I can't imagine if I would have to pay something so I can receive a call..
Dec 03 14:54:03 <sparkle> sounds like paradise...
Dec 03 14:54:29 <tauno> I mean.. it's absurd - how do I actually know if I want to receive the call and it's not just someone who accidentally dialed the wrong number or stuff?
Dec 03 14:54:38 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 14:54:45 <sparkle> it's absurd, but so is airline ticket pricing
Dec 03 14:55:01 <sparkle> mobile phone rate plans in general are absurd
Dec 03 14:55:07 <tauno> sparkle, huh?
Dec 03 14:55:09 <sparkle> finely tuned exercises to trip people up
Dec 03 14:55:34 <sparkle> well, say i have a basic plan that covers...500 minutes of airtime per month
Dec 03 14:55:37 <sparkle> or something like that
Dec 03 14:55:45 <Disconnect> how often do you get calls that are wrong number? i get at most 1 a month. and they never take even a full minute to deal with.
Dec 03 14:56:10 <sparkle> that costs you maybe $35/mo.  if you bought 1000 minutes per month it might go up to 55/mo or so
Dec 03 14:56:24 <sparkle> but if you bought the $35/mo plan and then went through 1000 minutes that month, you might be out over $200
Dec 03 14:56:45 <sparkle> it's a strange system
Dec 03 14:56:55 <Dialekt> SPLOINK!
Dec 03 14:57:01 <tauno> Disconnect, yeah.. true.. but I still get maybe once per month a call from my bank and they try to convince me how great their new deal is... and this call goes on for like 5-10 minutes :P
Dec 03 14:57:15 <tauno> but you're right.. it's not that much
Dec 03 14:57:20 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 14:57:34 <vol> tauno: say "this phone call ends in 15 seconds. We can end it politely, or abruptly."
Dec 03 14:57:39 <Dialekt> tryin splinkin on it!
Dec 03 14:57:45 <tauno> vol, lol :)
Dec 03 14:57:54 <bwr> anybody know of a VOIP over Wifi solution for the g1 yet? :)
Dec 03 14:58:00 <Disconnect> tauno: thats illegal in the us. no sales calls to cellphones
Dec 03 14:58:21 <vol> Disconnect: I'm pretty sure that if you have an existing relationship to the company and that's the contact number you gave, you might get away with it
Dec 03 14:58:23 <tauno> Disconnect, interesting..
Dec 03 14:58:28 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 14:58:32 <vol> no cold calls to cell numbers, that's for certain
Dec 03 14:58:34 <Disconnect> vol: not if you tell them its a cell
Dec 03 14:58:45 <vol> hmm.
Dec 03 14:58:59 <vol> wasn't aware, though I certainly don't get any legitimate cold calls to my phone
Dec 03 14:59:03 <sparkle> bwr: soon :)
Dec 03 14:59:05 * vol curses the stupid car warrenty scam calls
Dec 03 14:59:26 <sparkle> this is one reason i want a good blacklist app
Dec 03 14:59:38 <bwr> sparkle: sweet, are there work in progess projects going on that I can watch?
Dec 03 14:59:38 <sparkle> everyone not on the list gets routed straight to voicemail
Dec 03 14:59:50 <bwr> sparkle: yea, that would be sweet
Dec 03 14:59:54 <Disconnect> they can call for specific "maintentence" style calls (eg account overdrawn, we're raising/lowering limits, contract expiring, whatever) but they can't make straight sales calls. (no automated dialers)
Dec 03 15:00:39 <blau> is there anyway to hang up on a callprogramatically?
Dec 03 15:01:30 <blau> boo
Dec 03 15:01:30 <blau> Hanging up incoming call programmaticaly is currently impossible.
Dec 03 15:01:51 <blau> i suppose I could silence the phone if its a non known number
Dec 03 15:02:02 <blau> but that would need to be done quickly
Dec 03 15:02:43 <mikey|> is there any backing up software for g1?
Dec 03 15:02:44 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 15:03:07 <blau> where are the logs for this channel
Dec 03 15:03:14 <Dougie187> ~logs
Dec 03 15:03:15 <infobot> All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Dec 03 15:03:25 <Disconnect> mikey|: no. its not secure to let you save your data.
Dec 03 15:03:45 <tauno> anyhow.. we don't have landlines here anymore (well I have a landline number but It comes free with my IPTV/Internet thingie and I don't have an actual phone connected to it.. the same goes for everybody that I know.. honestly speaking - I don't know of anybody who has an actual landline phone) - so imagine the chaos that happens every time some cell network goes down for a few minutes/hours ;)
Dec 03 15:03:52 <mikey|> not sure how you mean Disconnect ?
Dec 03 15:04:16 <vol> yes, the total chaos of not having to deal with people on the phone
Dec 03 15:04:20 <vol> what a horrid nightmare
Dec 03 15:04:38 <Disconnect> mikey|: backing up and restoring require allowing the backup app access to data from other apps. thats not "secure" according to the asinine poorly thought out security policy
Dec 03 15:05:10 <mikey|> hmm...my 2nd g1 replacement :/ dont wanna customize it all again
Dec 03 15:05:21 <Disconnect> root it and back up stuff you like from the commandline
Dec 03 15:05:28 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 15:05:51 <mikey|> im on rc30, what ever the non rootable is
Dec 03 15:06:13 <Disconnect> then call tmobile and ask them to help you save your settings and sms's and popmail and stuff.
Dec 03 15:06:21 <blau> is there a way to find a conact with a phone number
Dec 03 15:06:25 <Disconnect> (wow i didn't think about pop mail until now. ..)
Dec 03 15:06:34 <blau> like say i have 17327567362, can i check a contact for that number?
Dec 03 15:06:58 <Disconnect> mikey|: there is no way to do it but the more people call and bitch the more likely it'll get flagged to be investigated above the support level
Dec 03 15:07:39 <sparkle> mm
Dec 03 15:07:44 <sparkle> hey i have a weird bug in the dialer
Dec 03 15:07:47 <sparkle> anyone want to hear it?
Dec 03 15:07:51 <tauno> sure
Dec 03 15:07:59 <sparkle> ok, i normally don't broadcast caller id
Dec 03 15:08:19 <sparkle> on my personal phone, which is what the g1 is now for me
Dec 03 15:08:22 <sparkle> but
Dec 03 15:08:33 <sparkle> i "whitelist" contacts by prefixing their numbers with *31#
Dec 03 15:08:47 <sparkle> which is the gsm code for allowing id just for that call
Dec 03 15:09:03 <sparkle> if i manually open up contacts, go to the contact and dial it, it works
Dec 03 15:09:21 <sparkle> if i just hit redial afterwards, or dial from the call log screen, it strips the *31#
Dec 03 15:09:30 <sparkle> anycut also always strips it
Dec 03 15:09:32 <sparkle> it's annoying :p
Dec 03 15:11:18 <vol> I suspect that's intentional?
Dec 03 15:11:43 <vol> also, how do you not broadcast caller id
Dec 03 15:12:13 <sparkle> i find it hard to believe that it's intentional, given that the first call is ok, and a redial gives different behavior
Dec 03 15:12:39 <sparkle> menu / settings / call settings / additional call settings / caller id
Dec 03 15:12:56 <vol> hmm
Dec 03 15:13:37 <mikey|> "Cannot instantiate the type ContentResolver", any idea why this pops up?
Dec 03 15:13:53 <mikey|> the constructer is ContentResolver(Context context)
Dec 03 15:14:03 <mikey|> im calling it with "this"
Dec 03 15:17:17 <mikey|>  getCOntentResolver worked
Dec 03 15:25:33 <blau> can someone decipher this Hey can you make a email program so that its kinda like the I'm interface so that we click on the one we wanna open and the main thing is the ability to delete emails I have yet figured out how to get them out of my trash can
Dec 03 15:25:39 <weilawei> im having huge problems with my messaging app. its very very slow, always hangs... anyone know what to do?
Dec 03 15:25:57 <Disconnect> blau: he wants k-9. and more weed.
Dec 03 15:26:10 <Disconnect> weilawei: too many sms's cause it to do that. :(
Dec 03 15:26:35 <weilawei> okay but i text a LOT...
Dec 03 15:26:41 <weilawei> so do i have to clear them?
Dec 03 15:27:10 <blau> yeah, but even after clearing them performance still sucks, although it wont cause the wait to pop up
Dec 03 15:27:44 <weilawei> this blows...i dont want to reset my phone to fix it either
Dec 03 15:28:12 <Disconnect> i wonder if sqlite maint (optimize table or similar) might help
Dec 03 15:28:14 <blau> itll just come back anyway
Dec 03 15:28:56 <blau> popularity calculation seems to be retarded
Dec 03 15:29:07 <mikey|> anyone here worked with Cursors?
Dec 03 15:29:47 <blau> sql?
Dec 03 15:29:56 <blau> yes
Dec 03 15:30:30 <mikey|> im trying to retrieve a list of bookmarks
Dec 03 15:30:31 <vol> I curse a lot
Dec 03 15:30:36 <vol> does that help?
Dec 03 15:30:45 <mikey|> the method returns a cursor but I dont know howto access the bookmarks
Dec 03 15:31:00 <mikey|> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/provider/Browser.html#getAllBookmarks(android.content.ContentResolver)
Dec 03 15:31:26 <blau> did you do cursor.movetofirst?
Dec 03 15:31:49 <mikey|> trying it with it now
Dec 03 15:31:54 <vol> do getColumnNames to figure out what is where there
Dec 03 15:31:56 <mikey|> nope, still crashed
Dec 03 15:32:03 <mikey|> column names shows _id and url
Dec 03 15:32:11 <mikey|> but im confused about how to access it
Dec 03 15:32:23 <blau> getcount?
Dec 03 15:33:16 <vol> while(cursor.moveToNext()) myUrls.add(cursor.getString(1));
Dec 03 15:33:16 <mikey|> getCount shows 13, so I tried t.append(bm.getString(10));, says "get field slot from row 0 col 10 failed"
Dec 03 15:33:33 <vol> mikey|: you have it backwards
Dec 03 15:33:37 <vol> that's 13 rows, not columns : )
Dec 03 15:33:42 <vol> you have 2 columns, _id and url
Dec 03 15:33:51 <vol> actually, I'm not sure if _id is built in
Dec 03 15:33:57 <vol> regardless
Dec 03 15:34:18 <vol> you need to iterate over the rows and perform getString on the url column
Dec 03 15:34:27 <vol> actually, what would be safest
Dec 03 15:34:36 <vol> int colIx = cursor.getColumnIndex("url");
Dec 03 15:34:53 <vol> while(cursor.moveToNext()) { myUrls.add(cursor.getString(colIx)); }
Dec 03 15:35:39 <vol> mm, that will skip the first row, make it a do-while?
Dec 03 15:35:56 <vol> use getPosition to get your row #
Dec 03 15:36:15 <blau> movetonext works fine if you dont do a movetofirst
Dec 03 15:36:53 <vol> oh, does it start you before row 1?
Dec 03 15:36:58 <vol> er, the first row
Dec 03 15:37:15 <vol> it HAS been a while : )
Dec 03 15:37:54 <blau> crap
Dec 03 15:38:00 <blau> i worked on this awesom sql and lost it somewhere
Dec 03 15:40:07 <DJTachyon> ugh i havent worked on my app since sdk 0.9
Dec 03 15:40:35 <DJTachyon> the xml editor is nice, but how do you set the text field on a button
Dec 03 15:40:40 <DJTachyon> i dont see the property
Dec 03 15:41:09 <DJTachyon> oh there it is :P
Dec 03 15:41:22 * DJTachyon faceslaps
Dec 03 15:42:09 <blau> lol
Dec 03 15:43:12 <mikey|> vol: that worked perfectly, thanks!
Dec 03 15:43:30 <vol> you're welcome : )
Dec 03 15:43:46 <mikey|> thats 1 part of the backup complete
Dec 03 15:43:52 <mikey|> backup app *
Dec 03 15:44:28 <Disconnect> its gonna require root :(
Dec 03 15:45:21 <mikey|> we'll see lol
Dec 03 15:45:50 <Disconnect> you can't shareuserid phone unless you have google signing keys
Dec 03 15:46:08 <mikey|> im curious how the browser stores the bookmarks, the content provider shows only 2 fields, _id and url, but when editing the bookmark, it stores the name somewhere
Dec 03 15:51:43 <tauno> http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/polylinealgorithm.html - "An encoded level value of 3 in this case would ensure that a point appears in all zoom level" why so? the table shows it's only visible in levels 15-18
Dec 03 15:55:51 <tauno> or what am I missing here..
Dec 03 15:55:54 <unix_lappy> is anyone working on a google reader app for Android?
Dec 03 15:56:26 <eldenz> unix_lappy, for auto notification of new items?
Dec 03 15:56:42 <eldenz> the mobile view i very useable imo
Dec 03 15:56:50 <eldenz> usable
Dec 03 15:57:05 <unix_lappy> eldenz: no, that functionality has been available for a long time.
Dec 03 15:57:28 <unix_lappy> I'm talking about an local Google Reader app for android.
Dec 03 15:57:37 <Disconnect> i'd love to see it not randomly display the page, then reload (marking expanded articles as read in the process)
Dec 03 15:57:39 <Disconnect> that'd be awesome
Dec 03 15:57:53 <Leeds> yes, that would be nice
Dec 03 15:58:32 <Leeds> I'm still not sure if I prefer the mobile view or the 'iphone' view
Dec 03 15:58:42 <eldenz> i'd like to see the real contents instead of the google-stripped version
Dec 03 15:59:04 <Leeds> that can be annoying - particularly when it gives 404 instead of displaying
Dec 03 15:59:35 <anno^da_> Is it possible that Android is sending some kind of SMS to T-Mobile (or tries too) I'm getting 60 SMS from my provider (unlocked G1) that the phone was not able to send some special sms to an unknown number. But I'm not sending any SMS. And the ones I'm sending are ok and get their way to the receiver.
Dec 03 16:00:10 <vol> could be something you're running
Dec 03 16:00:28 <eldenz> leeds, didn't know that there is an iphone view :o i guess you are referring to google.com/reader/m?
Dec 03 16:00:39 <Leeds> no, google.com/reader/i
Dec 03 16:01:02 <Disconnect> eldenz: there are 2 mobile reader versions. the wap-style antique text one and the iphone/g1/javascript one
Dec 03 16:01:16 <Leeds> anno^da_: unlikely... not noticed anything like that on my unlocked G1
Dec 03 16:01:24 <eldenz> ah, that is the one that displays automatically for me if i enter the normal url in android browser, i like it
Dec 03 16:01:49 <Leeds> yeah, although in some ways the old-fashioned one is still better
Dec 03 16:02:37 <Disconnect> Leeds: what ways? i can't stand it (used it for a while on my e90 before the iphone ver was released)
Dec 03 16:02:49 <Disconnect> i accept that it might have been a poor interaction between e90 browsing methods and the site tho
Dec 03 16:05:30 <Leeds> I used it for a long time on my Treo... if you've got a reasonably low-latency connection, the one-item-per-page model can work well
Dec 03 16:06:03 <Leeds> I don't like the reflowing it does on the posh version when things like banner ads appear - I end up tapping the wrong thing too often because it's still rendering the item
Dec 03 16:07:21 <unix_lappy> heh, well at least you dont have to use a Treo anymore.
Dec 03 16:07:26 <unix_lappy> (assuming your G1 is fixed)
Dec 03 16:08:13 <Disconnect> i really need to port an adblocking proxy over.
Dec 03 16:08:23 <Disconnect> (to native bionic, screw that java crap)
Dec 03 16:08:24 <anno^da_> Leeds: Thank you for your response. After every restart of the phone I get new messages and after that every hour. I'm getting to 100 received SMS today. :P
Dec 03 16:08:46 <Leeds> my G1 is good, thanks :-)
Dec 03 16:08:52 <Leeds> anno^da_: that's bad...
Dec 03 16:09:31 <unix_lappy> most carriers have SMS blocking utilities setup.
Dec 03 16:09:40 <unix_lappy> (except for T-Mobile iirc
Dec 03 16:09:50 <vol> anno^da_: you really ought to call tmobile support and see if they know anything about that
Dec 03 16:09:55 <vol> at the very least ask them to not try and charge you for this
Dec 03 16:10:11 <vol> again, check what apps you have installed, see if any try and send sms/mms
Dec 03 16:10:29 <sparkle> Disconnect: the internet junkbuster is fairly light :)
Dec 03 16:10:42 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 03 16:12:31 <sparkle> want to hear something scary?
Dec 03 16:12:36 <Leeds> erm, I think anno^da_ isn't using t-mob
Dec 03 16:18:41 <anno^da_> Right the sms started incoming right after I activated the phone :)
Dec 03 16:19:05 <anno^da_> I'm using not T-Mobile. I'm using a prepaid provider here over in Germany. :-)
Dec 03 16:19:44 <anno^da_> And everything is working fine now except the huge number of SMS messages.
Dec 03 16:20:10 <unix_lappy> has anyone actually consistently run out of room for apps and such on their G1's?
Dec 03 16:20:15 <anno^da_> Let me look at Logcat if I can see some SMS sending going on.
Dec 03 16:20:33 <anno^da_> unix_lappy: Yeah after one day of usage. (trying out all the stuff in the market)
Dec 03 16:21:00 <anno^da_> The storage is my only criticism at the moment.
Dec 03 16:21:15 <sparkle> anno^da_: are they going to an sms shortcode?
Dec 03 16:21:19 <unix_lappy> well i wont be trying out ALL the apps in the market.
Dec 03 16:21:23 <unix_lappy> i'm talking about normal usage.
Dec 03 16:21:29 <zhobbs> yeah, the storage is weak
Dec 03 16:21:34 <sparkle> if you're using rc30 outside of the usa, you may be blasting out myfaves pings
Dec 03 16:21:37 <anno^da_> sparkle: Well I cant see the number it is going too.
Dec 03 16:21:51 <sparkle> you may want to use...rc8 i think it is
Dec 03 16:22:13 <anno^da_> unix_lappy: Well at the moment we wont run out of space. But lets wait for the big number of games when selling paid apps is allowed.
Dec 03 16:22:23 <anno^da_> I bet we will run out of space very very fast.
Dec 03 16:22:52 <unix_lappy> anno^da_: yea I suspect there is a plan to alleviate that shortcoming...
Dec 03 16:23:12 <anno^da_> sparkle: I will look at it in the logcat right now.
Dec 03 16:23:38 <unix_lappy> and anything more than casual gaming on the phone is asinine anyway.
Dec 03 16:23:50 <anno^da_> unix_lappy: That would be great. I'm just being feared of apps runing not that fast from the sd card.
Dec 03 16:24:02 <sparkle> anno^da_: my sdcard is faster than the internal flash
Dec 03 16:24:08 <anno^da_> ok. :-)
Dec 03 16:24:14 <anno^da_> Haven't testedt that out.
Dec 03 16:24:28 <sparkle> that's not to say it's very fast
Dec 03 16:24:29 <sparkle> :-/
Dec 03 16:24:34 <anno^da_> By the way which SD cards would you recommend I'm going to buy one in the next days.
Dec 03 16:25:07 <sparkle> i would get a class 6 or above 8GB card
Dec 03 16:25:08 <unix_lappy> the way i see it is, i could either buy a G1+8GB microSD+netbook or get an iPhone.
Dec 03 16:25:12 <sparkle> i have a class 6 A-data
Dec 03 16:25:16 <unix_lappy> it'll work out to the same cost after 2 years ;-)
Dec 03 16:25:18 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: get an iphone
Dec 03 16:25:33 <sparkle> it's noticably faster than the class 4 kingston
Dec 03 16:25:50 <eldenz> what class is the new 16G from sandisk?
Dec 03 16:25:52 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: i run out of space on an almost daily basis since everything caches to /data (ahem google)
Dec 03 16:25:58 <sparkle> eldenz: slower i think
Dec 03 16:26:03 <anno^da_> Has someone recognized that it takes much much longer to get a GPS fix when the keyboard is open? My app gets the GPS location after 5 secs when I close the keyboard but when I have it open it takes minutes.
Dec 03 16:26:15 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: how many apps from market?
Dec 03 16:26:28 <sparkle> but i'm not sure
Dec 03 16:26:54 <Disconnect> not an unreasonable amount, but browser + streetview + market takes up 15+ megs (total) when they get rolling
Dec 03 16:27:19 <mpardo> Is there a way to process incoming audio in real time? or do i need to chunk it out into files and process it that way?
Dec 03 16:27:20 <luok> anybody ever have to wait like 10 seconds for the home screen to come up?
Dec 03 16:27:22 <Death_Syn> my 4gb microsd has only run out of space when I filled it with movies
Dec 03 16:27:28 <unix_lappy> define:unreasonable.
Dec 03 16:27:32 <anno^da_> Would it be so expensive to get more inside the G1. (built in)
Dec 03 16:27:34 <eldenz> luok, yeah i have that sometimes...
Dec 03 16:27:46 <Death_Syn> i'mma flip to an 8gb or bigger soon
Dec 03 16:28:11 <sparkle> anno^da_: i suspect the next android handset will have a lot more internal flash
Dec 03 16:28:18 <luok> arg i hate process of finding stable subset of apps
Dec 03 16:28:24 <luok> that don't kill performace
Dec 03 16:28:26 <eldenz> luok, iirc it happened mostly after leaving the browser..
Dec 03 16:28:29 <sparkle> there are some bandaid fixes that could certainly be done to use a portion of the sdcard for apps
Dec 03 16:28:37 <sparkle> it just makes things...less "clean"
Dec 03 16:29:01 <luok> eldenz: doh!
Dec 03 16:29:12 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: most people dont have more than 5-10 apps from the appstore that they use "regularly"
Dec 03 16:29:34 <unix_lappy> (on the iphone)
Dec 03 16:29:41 <anno^da_> sparkle: Well thats right but why the hell did they decide to save money on such an important detail. I dont really understand it. My old Palm device has more storage.
Dec 03 16:30:04 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: but they do have dozens installed. you're comparing apples and oranges (no pun intended)
Dec 03 16:31:11 <eldenz> sparkle, seems like it's Class 2 :( (=at least 2MB/s) oO have to hdparm that tonight.. 2MB/s would suck
Dec 03 16:31:17 <sparkle> yeah
Dec 03 16:31:42 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: dozens is more than 3 screens worth of apps.
Dec 03 16:31:48 <eldenz> should've researched a bit more before i blindly bought one.. but i'm a space junkie :x
Dec 03 16:32:30 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: they also can install/uninstall without losing data..
Dec 03 16:32:34 <tech9iner> any keyword hints on finding what the seemingly random numeric filename scheme is by g1's camera please. no clarity on google here. thanks
Dec 03 16:33:46 <Disconnect> just asked 2 coworkers, one has about 25 (5 regularly used) and one has 29..
Dec 03 16:35:22 <wastrel> 25 what now?
Dec 03 16:35:51 <anno^da_> Disconnect: But the most are used to have a lot of space. And now they should save space. Sounds a bit weird. (whats the cost of a 2GB internal storage) For sure we can manage with the 256MB but I dont get the reason why it has to be that small. Is it more energy efficient?
Dec 03 16:36:11 <wastrel> i seem to be constantly running out of space it's very annoying
Dec 03 16:36:47 <wastrel> i think it's the gmail app
Dec 03 16:36:51 <wastrel> i wish it would use the sd card
Dec 03 16:37:58 <wastrel> do deleted apps leave zombie data in flash?
Dec 03 16:38:18 <unix_lappy> mail is stored to internal flash?
Dec 03 16:38:30 <wastrel> i dunno
Dec 03 16:38:49 <wastrel> but i haven't installed new software and got the "low on space" notification
Dec 03 16:40:42 <wastrel> do location-aware apps work when gps is off?
Dec 03 16:40:51 <wastrel> are there really people who leave GPS on ?
Dec 03 16:41:35 <ITechJunkie> wastrel: I leave gps on... but to answer you other question, if i'm not mistaken the g1 can use a wireless connection to get the general area of where you are.
Dec 03 16:41:39 <wastrel> i have 15 apps installed
Dec 03 16:41:55 <wastrel> ITechJunkie: do you get like 4 hours of battery life?
Dec 03 16:42:04 <ITechJunkie> wastrel: nope, it lasts all day
Dec 03 16:42:10 <wastrel> weird
Dec 03 16:42:17 <jsharkey> tech9iner: i think we found earlier that the media player thumbnails use unix timestamps on the sdcard, maybe the photos do the same?
Dec 03 16:42:29 <jsharkey> *for the numerical filenames
Dec 03 16:42:42 <wastrel> mine has good battery life when i have decent cell signal, crappy when i have poor signal
Dec 03 16:42:53 <wastrel> and gps just sucks it down almost visibly
Dec 03 16:44:53 <tech9iner> jsharkey; thanks muchly mate. unix timestamp is fresh keyword fodder indeed..
Dec 03 16:45:25 <jsharkey> tech9iner: does it appear to match though?
Dec 03 16:45:31 * jsharkey digs out sdcard
Dec 03 16:46:36 <jsharkey> tech9iner: yep it looks like any photos taken match System.currentTimeMillis()
Dec 03 16:47:13 <sparkle> hmm
Dec 03 16:47:27 <sparkle> [147311.251366] init: Failed to bind socket 'zygote': No such file or directory
Dec 03 16:47:43 <tech9iner> jsharkey; tis appreciated lad. your time.
Dec 03 16:48:31 <jsharkey> tech9iner: you should consider using the ContentProvider instead of looking at raw file names for the pictures tho
Dec 03 16:49:10 <tech9iner> jsharkey; lol.. more keyword fodder for this g1 infant ;]
Dec 03 16:49:33 <jsharkey> tech9iner: are you trying to do something specific?
Dec 03 16:50:38 <florz> I'm not sure whether this is the right channel for the question, but let's see ... suppose I have a g1 with the keyboard-accessible root shell that hasn't been "google-activated" yet - any chance to get the wlan up and running blindly so as to have a closer look via telnet not quite as blindly?
Dec 03 16:51:27 <tech9iner> jsharkey; pix are huge part of my business here. not unusual when assessing clients' fleet to take 5-40 pix of 50-100 city buses for ie and then use them for proposals/quotes. hence my questions. 7 yrs on tux and never once heard 'unix timestamps'; much less know how to parse them.
Dec 03 16:52:19 * tech9iner would prefer more standard options in g1's camera on filenaming schemes &/or 'series' choices
Dec 03 16:52:47 <tech9iner> confident in time OSS developers will address this
Dec 03 16:53:31 <tech9iner> any exploits for rooting rc30 yet mates please?
Dec 03 16:53:34 <jsharkey> tech9iner: its just the milliseoconds since the epoch  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
Dec 03 16:53:56 <florz> s/milli//
Dec 03 16:53:57 <infobot> florz meant: I'm not sure whether this is the right channel for the question, but let's see ... suppose I have a g1 with the keyboard-accessible root shell that hasn't been "google-activated" yet - any chance to get the wlan up and running blindly so as to have a clos...
Dec 03 16:54:19 <andyross> FWIW, lots of the camera problems (dog slow autofocus, abnormally long exposure/accumulation times leading to blur and saturation) are below the level of the camera application and can't be fixed without (presumably) some docs from Qualcomm.  It's just generally awful, sadly.
Dec 03 16:54:54 <offby1> andyross: I only just tuned in to this discussion, but I'll say: yes, the camera is a big disappointment
Dec 03 16:55:00 <offby1> it's so sluggish it's not worth using
Dec 03 16:55:12 <offby1> I wish they hadn't included it at all, and lowered the phone's price a bit instead
Dec 03 16:55:20 <andyross> It works OK in midday sunlight.  Indoors, yeah: I have yet to take a picture worth saving.
Dec 03 16:55:56 <offby1> Is it really doing autofocus?  I assumed it was fixed-focus.  (I have a cheap fixed-focus digital camera that works surprisingly well)
Dec 03 16:56:12 <Disconnect> offby1: you can hear it focus
Dec 03 16:56:25 <jsharkey> are there many cell phones out there with better cameras?  ive had a few nokias that have been worse for taking indoor pix
Dec 03 16:56:31 <offby1> I can see it do _something_ that _looks_ like focusing but I figured I was misunderstanding
Dec 03 16:56:58 <tech9iner> ugh.. verizons dsl wifi is adding more salt than pepper to me hair here jsharkey ;].. last line from you: <jsharkey> tech9iner: its just the milliseoconds since the epoch  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
Dec 03 16:57:04 <andyross> Can you?  I assumed it was a DSP thing and not an actual moving lens.   But regardless, "autofocus" is part of the API that lives in the hardware layer below the open source release.  And it's ... reallly ... amazingly ... slow ...
Dec 03 16:57:10 <jsharkey> offby1: similar to most digcams, the picture button has a half-down mode that triggers a focus
Dec 03 16:57:12 <tech9iner> jsharkey; miss any thing please?
Dec 03 16:57:26 <jsharkey> tech9iner: nope that was the last i said  :)
Dec 03 16:57:32 <tech9iner> coolness tx
Dec 03 16:57:45 <andyross> And you can't turn it off.  It autofocuses when you press the (first level of) the shutter button, and your picture snaps sometimes 4-5 seconds later.
Dec 03 16:57:45 <offby1> jsharkey: huh, that means it's mechanically more complex than I'd expected.  It really has a little motor to move the lens in and out?
Dec 03 16:57:59 <offby1> yep, 4-5 seconds sounds about right.
Dec 03 16:58:03 <offby1> Useless.
Dec 03 16:58:28 * tech9iner cant wait for cable modem replacement of dsl verizon setup few wks.. verizon cellular favorite.. home dsl?.. sucketh
Dec 03 16:58:42 <jsharkey> tech9iner: no fios?  :P
Dec 03 16:58:48 <offby1> sometimes I use the camera to view existing pictures ... then I cannot figure out how to get it out of the "view-pictures" mode and back into the "take a picture" mode.
Dec 03 16:58:53 <andyross> The saddest thing is that camera phones have been a 100% solved problem for what, 6 years now?  It's not like Qualcomm or HTC is blazing any new ground here...
Dec 03 16:59:23 <tech9iner> offby1; simply press the camera button briefly & it returns to pic ready state mate
Dec 03 16:59:26 <jsharkey> andyross: there have only been a handful that do the autofocusing tho
Dec 03 16:59:41 <tech9iner> offby1; pretty standard dig cam behavior actually
Dec 03 17:00:07 <offby1> tech9iner: thought I'd already tried that, but let's try again.
Dec 03 17:00:32 <tech9iner> ie kodaks configured to show last pic preview for few sex.. press camera's button briefly & it pops back to shoot mode
Dec 03 17:01:17 <jsharkey> but yea tech9iner if your writing an Android native app, i would use a ContentProvider to get picture info instead of trying to scrape the raw files on the sdcard
Dec 03 17:01:27 <tech9iner> offby1; also note.. if one is in no hurry.. way to activate camera sans its desktop icons?.. press & hold camera button down 3-5 sex.. wuallah.. shoot mode ready ;]
Dec 03 17:01:41 <offby1> tech9iner: pressing the camera button didn't help, but pressing the "back arrow" button did.
Dec 03 17:01:42 <jsharkey> if a desktop app that looks at the sdcard, then i can understand
Dec 03 17:03:02 * tech9iner laughs @ jsharkey 's kindly offered info inferring this gui dependent would ever ever write a script.. lmao.. much less develop software.. ;]].. right brained to extreme creative type here mates.. no logical programmer aptitude atoll
Dec 03 17:03:21 <tech9iner> offby1; not sure wtf your experience so diff than mine mate..
Dec 03 17:03:23 <andyross> Programming isn't creative?
Dec 03 17:04:12 <tech9iner> andyross; from a logical mindset of course.. but does not fit the generic term via arts..
Dec 03 17:04:19 <jbq> sometimes saying "that's a very creative solution" isn't a compliment, especially during an interview ;-)
Dec 03 17:04:29 <andyross> Heh, touche
Dec 03 17:05:18 <tech9iner> programmers have better brain type balance including logical left & creative right.. not in this video brain here
Dec 03 17:05:44 <tech9iner> lol j b q
Dec 03 17:06:07 <tech9iner> offby1; again i take sometimes hundreds of pix in a single day w my g1 here..
Dec 03 17:06:33 <offby1> gosh
Dec 03 17:07:23 <andyross> Given the level of reliance, have you considered using, heh, a camera to take those pictures? :)
Dec 03 17:07:27 * tech9iner has already planned on getting a much brighter led flashlight for his dawn/dusk/nightime pix with g1 though.. necessary for g1's autofocus is confirmed here
Dec 03 17:07:53 <tech9iner> andyross; no not one single time.. ?? roflmfao..
Dec 03 17:08:49 <tech9iner> andyross; the idea is to NOT have to lug camera & laptop & phone/pda round to 3-15 client locations daily mate.. one of the list of reasons i chose the 3megapixal camera g1 ;]
Dec 03 17:09:08 <tech9iner> something t9 has been doing for 2 yrs now already..
Dec 03 17:10:21 <tech9iner> climbing up the steps on regrigerated truck boxes & trailers is much simpler w the g1 in its hip holster vs camera strap tween teeth ;]
Dec 03 17:11:02 <mikey|> wow, thats annoying, the contacts content provider didnt work on the emulator but it worked fine on my real phone
Dec 03 17:11:08 <mikey|> spent ages wander wtf the problem is
Dec 03 17:11:14 <mikey|> s/wander/wandering
Dec 03 17:11:28 <offby1> it's a "pseudo-emulator", then, I guess
Dec 03 17:13:07 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: you have an iPhone as well no?
Dec 03 17:13:31 <Disconnect> no. used to, got a 1st gen when it came out. hacked it, unlocked it, sold it to a guy in canadia
Dec 03 17:13:49 <unix_lappy> wish you had bought a 3G?
Dec 03 17:13:58 <Disconnect> not at all
Dec 03 17:14:36 <Disconnect> can't stand it. its a crappy phone, a mediocre web browser and a crappy music player (I need hw buttons for musc, and for it not to cause my speakers to hum all the time)
Dec 03 17:14:46 <Disconnect> decent video player
Dec 03 17:16:55 * Chainfire slaps DarkriftX around a bit with a large trout
Dec 03 17:16:59 <Chainfire> you around?
Dec 03 17:18:19 <mikey|> o.o the normalized phone number is just written backward from the inputted number
Dec 03 17:18:30 <jasta> Disconnect: your speakers "hum"?  are you sure that your setup is properly shielded?
Dec 03 17:20:22 <Disconnect> jasta: i'm sure i don't care particularly. http://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+speaker+noise .. also, you may recall that it was "compatible" with previous accessories. except for not only causing but transmitting that hum/crackle through any analog audio connector (doh) including docking ones.
Dec 03 17:21:34 <tmzt> hello, anyone with X1, HD or similar MSM6x00A based device? We are working on a way to gather the information needed to make android work. Please join #htc-linux if you want to test this.
Dec 03 17:21:43 <Chainfire> finally got my G1... rooted and preventing updates, TY :)
Dec 03 17:22:10 <Chainfire> tmzt> dont you mean MSM7xxxx?
Dec 03 17:22:23 <tmzt> Chainfire: only A versions
Dec 03 17:22:24 <RyeBrye> tmzt - do you know much about HTC phones? Any idea which ones use an Elan touchscreen?
Dec 03 17:22:31 <tmzt> Chainfire: it needs usb host
Dec 03 17:22:31 <Chainfire> (HD is 7201A, not 6201A, IIRC)
Dec 03 17:22:44 <florz> Are there any actions one should avoid in order to not accidentally update the firmware on an RC29 G1? Or is the firmware update always explicitly dependent on the user's acknowlegdement/request?
Dec 03 17:22:49 <tmzt> Chainfire: oh, yes 7xxxA
Dec 03 17:22:57 <Chainfire> tmzt> ill have an HD next week
Dec 03 17:23:02 <tmzt> RyeBrye: sorry, no idea on that
Dec 03 17:23:08 <Chainfire> im already bored with the G1, now its unpacked :P
Dec 03 17:23:23 <florz> or just in general: how does the update work?
Dec 03 17:23:27 <Disconnect> florz: in theory it asks. in practice it might not ask forever (so far it seems to) and tons of users have accidentally upgraded
Dec 03 17:23:36 <jasta> Disconnect: hmm, i dont have an iphone personally, but i have found lots of my existing phones have produced such a noise through low quality car steroes and home steroes
Dec 03 17:23:39 <Chainfire> florz get root, rename otacerts.zip
Dec 03 17:23:58 <jasta> because, obviously, phones produce lots of RF interference.
Dec 03 17:24:05 <Disconnect> jasta: iphone g1 was significantly worse than most others, for whatever reason.
Dec 03 17:24:07 <RyeBrye> I thought someone said in there yesterday that the only planned use of a forced "upgrade" was a carrier to brick the phone remotely in case it was reported stolen
Dec 03 17:24:09 <jasta> and so an improperly shielded speaker setup would definitely pick tht up
Dec 03 17:24:16 <Chainfire> i saw this superuser app on market... only works on pre-RC30, I assume ?
Dec 03 17:24:28 <florz> Disconnect: "accidentally" as in "didn't read what the phone said" or as in "it was installed without asking the user"? =:-)
Dec 03 17:24:43 <RyeBrye> "jbq: FWIW, the forced-update mode is designed for remote bricking. If you call the carrier telling them that your phone was stolen, that's a mechanism to inactivate the phone remotely."
Dec 03 17:24:45 <jasta> Disconnect: well, it might be a deficient design if they put the RF unit too close to their own improperly shielded aux output.
Dec 03 17:25:00 <Disconnect> accidentally as in "I unlocked it and it saw a spurious input" or "I was typing and it popped up and accepted my input"
Dec 03 17:25:22 <florz> Chainfire: that's the ca certs that are used for verifying update signatures, I suppose?
Dec 03 17:25:38 <RyeBrye> Chainfire - yes, only pre-RC30 or RC30's that are modified
Dec 03 17:25:52 <RyeBrye> Chainfire - actually... to be correct - only modified versions of any phone
Dec 03 17:25:58 <sparkle> woo
Dec 03 17:25:59 <sparkle> nfs works
Dec 03 17:26:00 * sparkle laughs
Dec 03 17:26:07 <Chainfire> ah ok
Dec 03 17:26:29 <Chainfire> how do i found out which RC im running anyways (just unboxed and rooted successfully, so pre RC-30...)
Dec 03 17:26:55 <jasta> Chainfire: its in the settings app, hunt around
Dec 03 17:26:55 <jbq> settings, about phone, device info, all the way at the bottom.
Dec 03 17:28:00 <Chainfire> thx
Dec 03 17:30:18 <Chainfire> hmm RC19
Dec 03 17:34:45 <mikey|> what else would you expect to find in a back up for android, contacts, bookmarks, ??
Dec 03 17:34:54 <mikey|> backup software *
Dec 03 17:35:12 <zhobbs> contacts are already backed up
Dec 03 17:35:12 <andyross> rsync of the /data partition?
Dec 03 17:35:19 <mikey|> zhobbs: where?
Dec 03 17:35:24 <mikey|> andyross: lol
Dec 03 17:35:25 <xsdg> mikey|: they're synced
Dec 03 17:35:29 <xsdg> mikey|: like email
Dec 03 17:35:32 <mikey|> ah
Dec 03 17:35:39 <mikey|> alright, but what else?
Dec 03 17:35:50 <mikey|> i havent got anything too important on this phone atm
Dec 03 17:35:56 <jt436> zhobbs: hey, sorry I missed your messages yesterday
Dec 03 17:36:06 <Disconnect> sms's
Dec 03 17:36:15 <xsdg> Disconnect: bah; beat me to the punch :o)
Dec 03 17:36:34 <Disconnect> prefs
Dec 03 17:36:34 <zhobbs> jt436: that's cool :)
Dec 03 17:37:13 <zhobbs> jt436: does that guitar hero app use open gl?
Dec 03 17:37:23 <jt436> zhobbs: no
Dec 03 17:37:50 <mikey|> hmm, is it me or is there no way to access sms with a provider? http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/provider/package-summary.html
Dec 03 17:38:16 <xsdg> mikey|: by design, undoubtedly
Dec 03 17:38:30 <mikey|> there is a read/write sms permission
Dec 03 17:38:33 * mikey| shrugs
Dec 03 17:38:47 <xsdg> aah, dunno then
Dec 03 17:40:11 <Chainfire> is there a website to view the market on my pc?
Dec 03 17:40:42 <anno^da_> Which IM app (ICQ and XMPP) is recommended ? (NO Gtalk)
Dec 03 17:41:50 <xsdg> anno^da_: what do you mean "recommended"?
Dec 03 17:44:27 <jasta> anno^da_: they all charge you SMS rates :\
Dec 03 17:45:38 <xsdg> jasta: eh?
Dec 03 17:46:15 <jasta> xsdg: every protocol in the IM app except GTalk is eithered implemented using SMS, or bills as it.
Dec 03 17:46:47 <jasta> so without an unlimited text messaging plan, you may be surprised by your next bill :)
Dec 03 17:46:51 <xsdg> jasta: the IM app includes neither ICQ nor XMPP
Dec 03 17:47:01 <jasta> it includes AIM, Yahoo, and MSN chat.
Dec 03 17:47:05 <jasta> all of which bill as SMS
Dec 03 17:47:13 <xsdg> jasta: reread the question, especially the bit in parens
Dec 03 17:48:04 <jasta> ahh well, nevermind then
Dec 03 17:48:58 <jasta> though honestly i doubt i trust any third party to implement a persistent IM client without using SMS
Dec 03 17:49:49 <anno^da_> xsdg: well an application that is recommended by the users.
Dec 03 17:50:03 <anno^da_> Since the built in apps are not really what I would like.
Dec 03 17:50:18 <anno^da_> A multi messenger would be nice but except Meemo I havent found one.
Dec 03 17:51:03 <xsdg> jasta: well, yeah
Dec 03 17:51:52 <anno^da_> Is it really that difficult to built one? On the desktop I can choose from a variety of multi messengers.
Dec 03 17:53:19 <mikey|> what would be the best way to store all the system prefs as a backup?
Dec 03 17:53:35 <mikey|> can we create our own db on the sdcard?
Dec 03 17:54:11 <xsdg> mikey|: keep in mind that the sd card has no security, whatsoever
Dec 03 17:54:27 <xsdg> mikey|: an app might accidentally or maliciously flip some bits or modify the DB some other way
Dec 03 17:54:48 <anno^da_> jasta: what are you working on at the moment?
Dec 03 17:54:51 <xsdg> (of course, you can use encryption)
Dec 03 17:54:55 <mikey|> Im sure I could work around that xsdg
Dec 03 17:55:18 <mikey|> but does android let us do make our own dbs on the sdcard?
Dec 03 17:56:41 <jasta> anno^da_: Five still.
Dec 03 17:56:44 <xsdg> I believe so, though I don't really see what you can do if you aren't doing enryption before the bits hit the disk.  I guess you could checksum in memory, then checksum again when you're reading the bits back or something
Dec 03 17:57:21 <anno^da_> jasta: Ah. Making good progress? :-)
Dec 03 17:58:04 <mikey|> some interesting options listed here that i havent found a way to access
Dec 03 17:58:38 <mikey|> logging_id, use_google_mail and android_id
Dec 03 18:00:41 <mikey|> :/ cant find anything for making a db on the sd card
Dec 03 18:01:18 <jasta> anno^da_: yes, definitely.  quickly approaching a stable release
Dec 03 18:02:02 <anno^da_> a great to hear that. :-) Let us know when it is done.
Dec 03 18:18:28 <jasta> hey dougie
Dec 03 18:18:44 <Dougie187> Hey jasta
Dec 03 18:18:46 <Dougie187> hows it going?
Dec 03 18:19:08 <jasta> tired, as usual :)
Dec 03 18:19:17 <DubLo7> The nearest T-Mobile is 300 miles away from me.  Is there any where to buy an unlocked G1?
Dec 03 18:19:23 <Dougie187> thats too bad
Dec 03 18:19:27 <Dougie187> too much l4d?
Dec 03 18:20:50 <jasta> nah, i just never feel rested
Dec 03 18:20:59 <Dougie187> you should get a new mattress
Dec 03 18:21:00 <Dougie187> lol
Dec 03 18:21:50 <jasta> i just hate my job is all :)
Dec 03 18:22:01 <Dougie187> you looking for a new one yet?
Dec 03 18:22:06 <Dougie187> or are you waiting until five is out?
Dec 03 18:22:20 <jasta> yeah i have a phone interview with t-mobile in a couple of hours
Dec 03 18:23:14 <Dougie187> thats pretty sweet
Dec 03 18:23:18 <Dougie187> what department?
Dec 03 18:23:26 <Dougie187> hopefully not sales.
Dec 03 18:23:27 <Dougie187> lol
Dec 03 18:23:31 <jasta> not sure, those are the details im getting today.
Dec 03 18:23:42 <vol> DubLo7: ebay
Dec 03 18:23:44 <jasta> id be doing android client app dev
Dec 03 18:24:06 <vol> oh cool
Dec 03 18:24:34 <Dougie187> that would be pretty sweet
Dec 03 18:26:14 <jasta> yeah wouldnt be a bad gig i dont think.  local too
Dec 03 18:26:23 <jasta> though not as convenient as, say, Google Fremont ;)
Dec 03 18:27:00 <vol> have you applied for a job at elgoog?
Dec 03 18:27:11 <jasta> no, im not really interested in that at the moment
Dec 03 18:27:17 <vol> I'd figure with all the time you've spent in this channel yelling and complaining about what fuckups they are, they'd give you a job just to shut you up : )
Dec 03 18:27:38 <Dougie187> hah
Dec 03 18:27:55 <jasta> i'm searching for the sort of rare tech job where i'm not asked to work 14 hour days and weekends.  i'm doubting that can be found at google :)
Dec 03 18:28:38 <DarkriftX> Chainfire: you need to install the modified rc30 :S
Dec 03 18:28:54 <DarkriftX> that root bug is bad. flash the modified recovery then flash the modified rc30.v1.2
Dec 03 18:29:12 <Chainfire> yah will do
Dec 03 18:29:18 <Chainfire> im not actually gonna use the device though
Dec 03 18:29:22 <Chainfire> its just for testing purposes.
Dec 03 18:29:24 <Chainfire> :)
Dec 03 18:29:49 <DarkriftX> if you plan on typing on it, id want to be on rc30
Dec 03 18:30:00 <DarkriftX> anything you type goes to a root terminal
Dec 03 18:30:23 <jasta> DarkriftX: just type enter, cat, enter
Dec 03 18:30:35 <jasta> when you first boot
Dec 03 18:30:41 <DarkriftX> wouldnt that cause other issues?
Dec 03 18:30:48 <Decavolt> mine never did that, even before rc30
Dec 03 18:30:50 <DarkriftX> speed/battery?
Dec 03 18:30:55 <sparkle> DarkriftX: no.
Dec 03 18:31:00 <jasta> DarkriftX: uhh, why would it?
Dec 03 18:31:03 <sparkle> it's not a bad idea to update
Dec 03 18:31:08 <DarkriftX> couldnt that just read everything?
Dec 03 18:31:09 <sparkle> but that'd work
Dec 03 18:31:12 <DarkriftX> never typed cat by itself
Dec 03 18:31:57 <Chainfire> what does it do ?
Dec 03 18:32:01 <vol> By the by, does anyone have a rooted g1 they feel like selling?
Dec 03 18:32:11 <sparkle> maybe vol
Dec 03 18:32:20 <Chainfire> what price you offering? :)
Dec 03 18:32:24 <sparkle> either that or i need to return it
Dec 03 18:32:30 <sparkle> basically brand new out of the box
Dec 03 18:32:55 <vol> sparkle: srsly? And not broken or anything?
Dec 03 18:33:31 <vol> Chainfire: you want "cat > /dev/null" more likely
Dec 03 18:33:33 <sparkle> well the keys are a tiny bit lower on the left side of the kb than on my other handset
Dec 03 18:33:37 <vol> it will redirect your input to dev null
Dec 03 18:33:43 <DarkriftX> vol cannot do > or/'s
Dec 03 18:33:47 <vol> orly?
Dec 03 18:33:51 <vol> I thought it caught EVERYTHING
Dec 03 18:33:55 <DarkriftX> something blocks them from what i heard
Dec 03 18:34:04 <sparkle> no modifiers
Dec 03 18:34:06 <DarkriftX> rm -R / wont work
Dec 03 18:34:09 <vol> boo
Dec 03 18:34:13 <DarkriftX> i dont remember why though
Dec 03 18:34:16 <JesusFreke> yeah, basically the alt key doesn't work
Dec 03 18:34:18 <vol> sparkle: have you already rooted it?
Dec 03 18:34:26 <sparkle> yeah
Dec 03 18:34:26 <JesusFreke> so anything you have to press alt to type... can't be typed
Dec 03 18:34:50 * sparkle hums "alternate reality"
Dec 03 18:35:51 <anno^da_> JesusFreke: Can I update from the RC30 modified to RC8 modified without problems? (I need to get rid of the MyFavs app which sends SMS messages all the time)
Dec 03 18:36:28 <sparkle> anno^da_: so long as you have the modified recovery image flashed
Dec 03 18:36:34 <sparkle> you should be able to go back and forth
Dec 03 18:36:40 <Impossible> sparkle, i agree
Dec 03 18:37:02 <anno^da_> I have the modded recovery image flashed.
Dec 03 18:37:12 <anno^da_> (the testkeys thing :) )
Dec 03 18:37:15 <Damm> anno^da_, btw, disabling the myfavs app does not stop the text messages
Dec 03 18:37:28 <Damm> your device will still receive them when it boots
Dec 03 18:37:47 <anno^da_> So RC8 wont help me ?
Dec 03 18:37:51 <DarkriftX> do you still get charged for them if you dont open them?
Dec 03 18:37:55 <Damm> take an non t-mobile handset, put your sim in it... and you'll get the text messages
Dec 03 18:38:02 <Damm> DarkriftX, you don't get charged for them at all
Dec 03 18:38:05 <xsdg> anno^da_: I don't believe you're charged for MyFaves; I might be wrong, though
Dec 03 18:38:13 <DarkriftX> oh, someone said they were getting charge like crazy for them
Dec 03 18:38:21 <DarkriftX> and thats why tehy unrooted their phone :(
Dec 03 18:38:21 <Damm> "system" text messages are never charged
Dec 03 18:38:34 <anno^da_> Well I dont get charged but I get 100 SMS per day by my carrier because of MyFavs sending sms that can not bet sent
Dec 03 18:38:36 <Chainfire> whats up with that... is my device sending text messages without me knowing ?
Dec 03 18:38:38 <Damm> if they're getting charged for them, you call T-Mobile and make them fix it.
Dec 03 18:38:43 <DarkriftX> someone needs to say that in the xda-devs rc8 thread
Dec 03 18:38:55 <DarkriftX> no Chainfire
Dec 03 18:38:58 <Damm> anno^da_, is your device sending out textmessages?
Dec 03 18:39:22 <Damm> it shouldn't send any out, it should receive a "MyFaves" OTA... and then respond to it
Dec 03 18:39:26 <Damm> it should never initiate the connection
Dec 03 18:39:32 <anno^da_> Damm: Well it seems so. I'm getting SMS from my carrier (auto generated) that some SMS could not be sent.
Dec 03 18:39:34 <Damm> unless they re-wrote the myfaves behavior
Dec 03 18:39:45 <Damm> anno^da_, adb uninstall Myfaves?
Dec 03 18:40:00 <kennyyu> it's taken already half of the day but my android building process is still at work... is it normal?
Dec 03 18:40:05 <DarkriftX> doesnt that cause issues with your contacts?
Dec 03 18:40:27 <anno^da_> Well thats what I fear I dont want to have any interference with other apps.
Dec 03 18:40:44 <anno^da_> (got 5 SMS again right now :P)
Dec 03 18:41:44 <anno^da_> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444114
Dec 03 18:41:45 <RyeBrye> Damm - Myfaves ues SMS to communicate with T-mobile
Dec 03 18:41:49 <anno^da_> this is the behaviour
Dec 03 18:42:26 <kennyyu> may i know how long does it take usually to build android completely?
Dec 03 18:42:44 <DarkriftX> kennyyu: took me about an hour
Dec 03 18:42:52 <Disconnect> kennyyu: on my old dec alpha 16/32, about 10 months so foar.
Dec 03 18:42:53 <Disconnect> far
Dec 03 18:43:01 <blau> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=914 grrr
Dec 03 18:43:09 <kennyyu> then it's very strange in my case..........
Dec 03 18:43:18 <sparkle> it took 2 hours to build afs, but i did it on the handset :)
Dec 03 18:43:33 <DarkriftX> lol
Dec 03 18:43:48 <GF|yoshi> hey all
Dec 03 18:43:50 <RyeBrye> sparkle - using nfs, or a really big SD card?
Dec 03 18:44:31 <sparkle> RyeBrye: 8gb sd card
Dec 03 18:44:32 <kennyyu> i'm actually doing it on my Ubuntu (running on Virtual PC)... but already 6-7 hours. not kidding...
Dec 03 18:44:44 <sparkle> midway through i thought about doing it over nfs
Dec 03 18:44:45 <sparkle> but
Dec 03 18:44:45 <sparkle> meh
Dec 03 18:45:04 <sparkle> if anyone needs kernel modules for nfs client & server btw, lemme know
Dec 03 18:45:09 <sparkle> they build straight out of the tree
Dec 03 18:45:15 <GF|yoshi> think anyone can help me with zxing
Dec 03 18:45:32 <GF|yoshi> or atleast how to make it so core.jar is added into my apk
Dec 03 18:47:46 <blau> if its included in the build path i think it's automatically loaded into your apk
Dec 03 18:48:00 <blau> i could be wrong
Dec 03 18:48:29 <GF|yoshi> yea eclipse has a nice learning curve
Dec 03 18:48:40 <Damm> RyeBrye, right, however when i was in the internals of T-Mobile... it was initiated from T-Mobile, not the handheld.
Dec 03 18:49:13 <Damm> anno^da_, uninstalling MyFaves should be the easy answer.
Dec 03 18:49:30 <Damm> anno^da_, no need to do anything amazing, however if you wanna toss on RC30+jf 1.2 go for it
Dec 03 18:49:34 <DarkriftX> might want to makea backup of the apk just incase
Dec 03 18:49:36 <Damm> and then take out the myfaves
Dec 03 18:49:57 <Damm> DarkriftX, I imagine there's a reference to the apk somewhere in the startup files also
Dec 03 18:50:25 <GF|yoshi> Has anyone here messed with zxing
Dec 03 18:50:34 <GF|yoshi> that can help me a bit to understand what i need to do
Dec 03 18:51:56 <kennyyu> sorry may i ask something stupid: i've finally successfully built it but i don't know how to start it?
Dec 03 18:51:57 <xsdg> Damm, DarkriftX: careful; ISTR that MyFaves is somehow tied to how contacts are stored
Dec 03 18:52:02 <xsdg> anno^da_: ^^^ also
Dec 03 18:52:09 <DarkriftX> thats what i heard also
Dec 03 18:52:49 <RyeBrye> the UK version doesn't have MyFaves, does it?
Dec 03 18:53:01 <Damm> RyeBrye, something similar?
Dec 03 18:53:23 <Damm> yes
Dec 03 18:53:26 <Damm> they do have MyFaves in the UK
Dec 03 18:53:31 <DJTachyon> is there a border-type attribute to linear layout?
Dec 03 18:53:31 <Damm> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/price-plans/pay-monthly/myfaves/plans/
Dec 03 18:53:45 <Damm> so going to RC8 won't solve anno^da_'s issue...
Dec 03 18:53:57 <DJTachyon> GF|Yoshi .. wanna see something cool?
Dec 03 18:54:36 * DarkriftX needs to head off to work
Dec 03 18:54:37 <DarkriftX> later all
Dec 03 18:54:39 <DJTachyon> http://www.djtachyon.com/android/TestQRContact.png  .. scan that with the "Barcode Scanner" (zxing) app
Dec 03 18:55:15 <GF|yoshi> DJ i so would if i could get my app to run
Dec 03 18:55:16 <blau> anyone been keeping up with my apps?
Dec 03 18:55:21 <GF|yoshi> it will run when barcode scanner is installed
Dec 03 18:55:24 <GF|yoshi> but not without it
Dec 03 18:55:29 <DJTachyon> o_O
Dec 03 18:55:30 <tech9iner> so androidites; any apps to control or offer choices of the file naming scheme g1's camera uses please?
Dec 03 18:55:52 <DJTachyon> doubt it
Dec 03 18:56:44 <GF|yoshi> nice DJ
Dec 03 18:56:48 <Damm> xsdg, myfaves isn't in the opensource version correct?
Dec 03 18:56:57 <xsdg> Damm: correct
Dec 03 18:57:02 <Damm> xsdg, so why not just load the opensource contacts.apk and remove myfaves.apk
Dec 03 18:57:10 <GF|yoshi> nice
Dec 03 18:57:10 <Damm> and then you should be myfaveless
Dec 03 18:57:15 <tech9iner> unix timestamp isnt the pref here due my exhaustive use of the camera in my business
Dec 03 18:58:23 <GF|yoshi> So does anyone know why my app will work when the barcode scanner app is installed
Dec 03 18:58:34 <xsdg> Damm: Does the open-source stuff include contacts, gmail, and all that stuff?
Dec 03 18:59:37 <Disconnect> nope
Dec 03 18:59:40 <Disconnect> well yes and no
Dec 03 18:59:59 <Disconnect> if you looked at the source tree (conveniently available via gitweb) you'll see whats in there and what isn't
Dec 03 19:00:12 <xsdg> tech9iner: I'm pretty sure there isn't currently
Dec 03 19:00:44 <xsdg> anyway, I'm off.  see ya
Dec 03 19:00:52 <DJTachyon> so do you need to use tables to get borders and can put borders around layouts?
Dec 03 19:01:50 <DJTachyon> anybody?
Dec 03 19:03:17 <DJTachyon> oh cell borders are not visible in tablelayout either
Dec 03 19:06:06 <blau> working on a utility to dump your text messages to sd card
Dec 03 19:13:01 <d0nets> will google docs be free forever?
Dec 03 19:13:21 <d0nets> he said it wont be, but i think he lies
Dec 03 19:13:25 <kennyyu> d0nets: i think so
Dec 03 19:16:06 <Damm> xsdg, no idea... doing a repo sync to see
Dec 03 19:18:25 <mikey|> well, the backup app is running, now i need a way to encrypt the data
Dec 03 19:18:42 <mikey|> anyone recommend any method for password encrypting the file?
Dec 03 19:19:40 <vol> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encryption
Dec 03 19:19:44 <vol> pick one : P
Dec 03 19:19:45 <spikebike> heh
Dec 03 19:20:22 <vol> better yet find an encryption cypher that's already implemented in java
Dec 03 19:21:18 <spikebike> even better one already on the g1
Dec 03 19:21:32 <spikebike> poke around in the g1's ssl libraries
Dec 03 19:25:00 <jt436> mikey|:  write your own, if you use something already in existence and well know its easier for people to decode it.  unless you really don't care
Dec 03 19:25:43 <jbailey> mikey|: ROT26 is *always* the answer.
Dec 03 19:25:57 <mikey|> is that ecryptable and decryptable with a password?
Dec 03 19:26:18 <fadden> jt436: somewhere, an NSA agent got a big smile
Dec 03 19:26:48 <jbailey> mikey|: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROT13 =)
Dec 03 19:26:58 <mikey|> "The algorithm provides no real cryptographic security and should never be used for such. "
Dec 03 19:26:59 <mikey|> lol
Dec 03 19:27:02 <vol> s/smile/hardon/
Dec 03 19:27:17 <blount> you're better off randomizing the letter mapping
Dec 03 19:27:17 <fadden> vol: that was my original thought, but I decided to keep it G-rated. :-)
Dec 03 19:27:20 <blount> that's what the nsa uses
Dec 03 19:27:25 <jt436> I had to go through the process recently due to copyright issues for music
Dec 03 19:27:26 <vol> jt436: you don't really understand encryption, do you?
Dec 03 19:27:43 <vol>  security through obscurity is about the worst possible method of security
Dec 03 19:28:04 <vol> go read yourself some schneier :P
Dec 03 19:28:46 <jt436> vol: its not some random code, you are more than welcome to have a crack one its out ;)
Dec 03 19:28:47 <jbq> vol: though of course any security based on a private key is fundamentally based on obscurity, technically...
Dec 03 19:29:13 <fadden> Yes, but at least the degree of obscurity is quantifiable. :-)
Dec 03 19:29:19 <jbq> Yes
Dec 03 19:29:41 <jbailey> jbq: Err, no.  Usually security through obscurity refers to the algorithm rather than the keys. =)
Dec 03 19:29:43 <tech9iner> hmmm. just had something surprise me in my gmail via g1. had a new account activation link; 'Please visit the link below to confirm your registration. To do so, Click here. or copy and paste the link below to your web browser' in email i clicked & loaded into g1 browser. it appeared to propogate the hash in the link but clicking the forum's 'activate' button in browser failed over and over.
Dec 03 19:30:01 <jbq> jbailey: I know :)
Dec 03 19:30:18 <tech9iner> so opened just now in laptop and wtf? worked as expected. seems some bits n bytes need to be improved in g1 default web browser
Dec 03 19:30:25 <jbq> jbailey: though arguably in that case the algorithm is at least part of the key.
Dec 03 19:30:26 <vol> yeah, the browser has some minor issues
Dec 03 19:30:30 <jbq> anyway, semantics, semantics...
Dec 03 19:30:32 * vol <3 opera beta
Dec 03 19:30:36 <vol> speaking of which
Dec 03 19:30:38 <jbailey> jbq: Sure. =)
Dec 03 19:30:48 <vol> fadden: can you tell whoever made the gmail app that it'd be SWELL if I could attach more than pictures?
Dec 03 19:31:01 <jbailey> vol: Magazines have issues. =)  Software has bugs.  People have "problems"
Dec 03 19:31:07 <Damm> vol, i'm sure that will get addressed in time.
Dec 03 19:31:14 <vol> and/or if it already exists, to maike it easier to figure out how to do so
Dec 03 19:31:25 <tech9iner> vol; has opera even had vision enough to catch up with ffx and finally developed FAYT yet ?
Dec 03 19:31:35 <vol> FAYT?
Dec 03 19:31:37 <fadden> vol: I think it's safe to say they're aware of that particular request.
Dec 03 19:31:45 <tech9iner> Find As You Type
Dec 03 19:31:46 <vol> fart at your teeth?
Dec 03 19:31:53 <tech9iner> cute
Dec 03 19:31:55 <vol> oh
Dec 03 19:32:02 <vol> who cares about find as you type :\
Dec 03 19:32:15 <meyou> is there any normal reason my sd card would get dismounted aside from manually dismounting it from the settings?
Dec 03 19:32:16 <Disconnect> tech9iner: fyi unclickable links are generally caused by the 'format for this screen' in the settings
Dec 03 19:32:19 <Disconnect> disbale that and it'll work
Dec 03 19:32:22 <vol> besides, saying opera doesn't have vision is pretty funny, since they innovated things like "tabs" and "using mouse gestures"
Dec 03 19:32:23 <tech9iner> just a few million ppl round the globe vol lmao
Dec 03 19:32:29 <Disconnect> mint.com is terrible that way
Dec 03 19:33:05 <vol> meyou: popping it out?
Dec 03 19:33:26 <tech9iner> vol; wasnt intended as you assumed as a put down on opera.. mea culpa it reads that way mate.. was more about my penchant for FAYT feature which saves one huge clicks & time when browsing / researching via websites
Dec 03 19:33:31 <eldenz> can anybody tell me what the 'Window animation' is supposed to do in DroidSans Tweak Lite? (or the xda forum release)
Dec 03 19:34:04 <vol> I've honestly never found find as you type to be that useful. Kind of interesting, and produces bizarre partial results which can be hilarious, but eh.
Dec 03 19:34:10 <vol> also, bandwidth intensive.
Dec 03 19:34:27 <tech9iner> Disconnect; thanks muchly for the fyi.. ill look into that.
Dec 03 19:35:07 <eldenz> hm, i'm blind. probably the fadein :p
Dec 03 19:35:38 <abatrour> anyone here got android running on the neo freerunner?
Dec 03 19:37:10 <tech9iner> vol; ? bandwidth intensive? useful? heh.. fayt = website researching @ speed of light sans scrolling and looking or loading lotsa little inconsistent & often poorly mapped letter buttons for site links. similar to clicking / mousing being upto 6x slower pc input than pure keyboard operations.. time killer & highly inefficient way of finding links or even specific words on sites.
Dec 03 19:37:52 * tech9iner steps off his soapbox.. ;]
Dec 03 19:38:06 <tech9iner> too two much said already t9
Dec 03 19:38:39 <vol> really have no idea how you're using it as a research aid. Are you typing a few letters and hoping to see something you like come out?
Dec 03 19:39:08 <vol> In AudioManager, which stream should I use for the volume of Media I play in my app? STREAM_MUSIC?
Dec 03 19:42:08 <zhobbs> vol: yeah
Dec 03 19:43:22 <tech9iner> vol; eh.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAYT http://www.mozilla.org/access/type-ahead/ advantages are well documented. if you were a web researcher you would know ;]]
Dec 03 19:43:44 <vol> I don't even know what "web researcher" means.
Dec 03 19:43:58 <tech9iner> lmao.. enough said then
Dec 03 19:44:01 <tech9iner> ciao 4 now vol and thanks for input..
Dec 03 19:44:14 <vol> ok gl hf being on the bleeding edge of your parents basement?
Dec 03 19:45:25 <mikey|> I have android:debuggable set in my manifest, but the app just sits there waiting for the debugger :/
Dec 03 19:45:37 <grey-> I missed the first part of the conversation... but android does have find as you type for when you're using the google search bar at least...
Dec 03 19:45:47 <vol> grey-: opera
Dec 03 19:45:52 <grey-> opera?
Dec 03 19:45:58 <grey-> doesn't have it?
Dec 03 19:45:59 <mikey|> any ideas why?
Dec 03 19:46:03 <vol> opera's put out a beta version of their browser
Dec 03 19:46:07 <vol> and I do <3 me some opera
Dec 03 19:46:18 <grey-> vol: yeah, I haven't downloaded it yet.
Dec 03 19:46:25 <vol> mikey|: kill eclipse, restart adb, restart eclipse
Dec 03 19:46:30 <vol> sometimes eclipse goes brain dead on me like that
Dec 03 19:46:39 <vol> s/eclipse/adb
Dec 03 19:47:37 <vol> and then if you restart adb while eclipse is still up, sometimes eclipse gets confused and needs arestart
Dec 03 19:52:51 <marix> howdy yall
Dec 03 19:54:43 <vol> hi
Dec 03 19:55:37 <marix> anything new in the android world?
Dec 03 19:57:46 <vol> everything is new
Dec 03 19:58:20 <Delvien> anyone notice the screen sags a little when its slid out on the g1?
Dec 03 19:59:36 <luok> Delvien: mine appears slightly crooked when looking at the row of number buttons
Dec 03 20:00:02 <Delvien> luok the build quality seems poor
Dec 03 20:01:22 <luok> its certainly the best htc i've used
Dec 03 20:01:25 <luok> but thats not saying a lot
Dec 03 20:01:27 <Delvien> ima take off the casing on the lcd and tighten things up
Dec 03 20:01:52 <luok> i hate how it creaks whenever i try to hit menu button and inveitably end up pushing on screen
Dec 03 20:02:34 <Delvien> me too thought about oiling it a little
Dec 03 20:03:07 <marix> Im not sure how to resolve the issues though,  from an engineering perspective it appears taht the form factor might just be prone to such things
Dec 03 20:04:36 <Delvien> marix long bar with a spring mech all the way across
Dec 03 20:04:53 <Delvien> maris or telekenesis
Dec 03 20:05:09 <mpardo> does anyone know how to parse frequency of a frame in a 3gp audio file?
Dec 03 20:05:52 <mpardo> i found gain in ringroid src, but i don't know the relation or 3gp specs
Dec 03 20:06:06 <marix> i thought 3gp was only a continer
Dec 03 20:06:09 <marix> container even
Dec 03 20:06:23 <mpardo> for amr?
Dec 03 20:07:27 <marix> i know w/ 3gp video,  the audio can be encoded in several formats
Dec 03 20:08:12 <marix> but perhaps audio is limited to amr
Dec 03 20:08:30 <mpardo> it is
Dec 03 20:08:34 <mpardo> for android i think
Dec 03 20:08:53 <mpardo> so i guess what i meant to say is i found out how to parse gain out of amr via Ringdroid source
Dec 03 20:09:05 <marix> amr is kinda a poor codec for music
Dec 03 20:09:12 <mpardo> but i want to parse out the frequency bits
Dec 03 20:09:18 <mpardo> it's not for music
Dec 03 20:09:33 <marix> hmm
Dec 03 20:10:20 <marix> Generates frame length of 95, 103, 118, 134, 148, 159, 204, or 244 bits for bit rates 4.75, 5.15, 5.90, 6.70, 7.40, 7.95, 10.2, or 12.2 kbit/s, respectively
Dec 03 20:10:48 <marix> i dunno if that helps you or not... but if you can determine kbit/s then it'll give you your frame lengths
Dec 03 20:11:01 <mpardo> but can i get frequency from that?
Dec 03 20:11:15 <mpardo> frequency = frame length?
Dec 03 20:11:27 <marix> thats where i'm lost
Dec 03 20:11:39 <mpardo> lol k
Dec 03 20:11:54 <marix> perhaps someone else might know though.
Dec 03 20:12:10 <marix> whats your plan for it?
Dec 03 20:13:09 <mpardo> want to use fft to get audio frequency coming into mic
Dec 03 20:15:38 * mikey| gives up
Dec 03 20:15:54 <vol> :<
Dec 03 20:15:55 <mikey|> restoring the settings has no effect on the phone, i tested with brightness
Dec 03 20:16:03 <mikey|> how does aSettings does it?
Dec 03 20:16:16 <vol> do you have permissions?
Dec 03 20:16:30 <mikey|> yeah, no errors at all, just doesnt seem to eotk
Dec 03 20:16:32 <mikey|> work *
Dec 03 20:22:53 <jasta> mikey|: have you checked adb logcat?
Dec 03 20:24:18 <mikey|> no, but i closed the project and im too annoyed to try again
Dec 03 20:24:50 <jasta> well if you didnt check logcat, then you have no idea if there were errors or not
Dec 03 20:26:35 * bert0 finally got his phone mounted to his ubuntu box
Dec 03 20:26:47 <bert0> but I had to use root
Dec 03 20:27:26 <bert0> either way I know now that it's my computers problem not the g1's
Dec 03 20:28:23 <Disconnect> google has the power to revoke most of the internet. i think they should do no evil by doing good, and knock xaviar off the web. seriously. he clearly needs to be barred from technology more complex than a toaster. and anything, tech or otherwise, that allows him to bother others.
Dec 03 20:28:45 <grey-> . . . revoke?
Dec 03 20:28:54 <zhobbs> I wish I could change the vibrate settings for incoming SMS's
Dec 03 20:28:57 <fadden> Disconnect: what now?
Dec 03 20:29:10 <zhobbs> it's just a quick little vibe and I always miss sms's
Dec 03 20:29:18 <Disconnect> fadden: http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=zdz4RxYAAADaoPEp-ibExScG6SnvSCGjo4cocwWvDVg2RHsu8f1bCg
Dec 03 20:29:36 <Disconnect> 402 ratings, all 1.
Dec 03 20:29:53 <jasta> zhobbs: i filed a bug about that ;)
Dec 03 20:30:14 <zhobbs> jasta: nice!
Dec 03 20:30:26 <zhobbs> I just bitch in IRC....
Dec 03 20:31:04 <jasta> i filed a bug about more granular SMS controls for lots of apps, like the ability to make the notif sound and vibrate on a repeating schedule until you clear the notification
Dec 03 20:32:13 <mikey|> zhobbs: someone make an app for that
Dec 03 20:32:19 <mikey|> dgAlert, check the market
Dec 03 20:34:00 <luok> jasta: yeah i want that for all notifications
Dec 03 20:34:12 <luok> i miss super old regular phones that would beep like every 5 minutes if you had voicemail
Dec 03 20:35:48 <jasta> well im glad it doesnt do that, voicemail sucks :)
Dec 03 20:36:29 <luok> yeah i think whats really need is just a notifier app that lets you set up repeating alerts for whatever types of notification you want
Dec 03 20:36:42 * mikey| sighs
Dec 03 20:36:52 <mikey|> this scrollview still doesnt move all the way to the bottom
Dec 03 20:37:54 <bert0> I while google is at it they should knock whoever made Klaxon alarm clock off the web too.  I over slept again today
Dec 03 20:38:33 <luok> hehe i had issues with the built in alarm clock as well
Dec 03 20:38:44 <luok> and alarm bell seems to appear and disappear at random on status bar
Dec 03 20:40:35 <bert0> It's a really good program if you are into software that doesn't function properly.
Dec 03 20:40:57 <bert0> </rant>
Dec 03 20:52:53 <marix_g`1> is their an x86 compatible build of android out?
Dec 03 20:55:22 <zhobbs> marix_g`1: it's not too hard to get the VM running, but it's hard to run android phone apps with it
Dec 03 20:56:20 <marix_g`1> i recently got ahold of a sony ux (looks like a giant g1 really...)  and thought it would be rad to get android running on it
Dec 03 20:56:37 <marix_g`1> but if app support is nonexistant then i don't see much of a point.
Dec 03 21:02:32 <Damm> android is pretty much arm, if you can get it to compile on x86 then great
Dec 03 21:02:56 <Damm> you would of course have to modify the code to support your sony ux
Dec 03 21:04:05 <RyeBrye> the cool thing is - if you do get it ported and running on your sony UX - (assuming you get dalvik to compile and such) - almost all the apps that are out there will run on it just fine (which is the reason they use the vm in the first place)
Dec 03 21:05:34 <Lenolium> So, I'm still sad that there isn't any real irc client for android yet. So I have a question: I spotted some things in some of the network stuff that made it look like you could bind a connection to a cell vs. wifi connection, is that true or was I just hopefully reading?
Dec 03 21:07:13 <jasta> Lenolium: in future versions you will probably be able to.  in the current version, no.  wifi disables all cellular connections.
Dec 03 21:08:01 <Lenolium> jasta: And doesn't the wifi get disabled when you turn the screen off?
Dec 03 21:08:13 <jasta> after some time, yes.  then cell connections are renabled
Dec 03 21:08:15 <jasta> reenabled*
Dec 03 21:08:23 <jasta> so applications must tolerate being disconnected abruptly.
Dec 03 21:08:37 <streeter> I don't understand that design decision
Dec 03 21:08:53 <jasta> the wifi radio is expensive.
Dec 03 21:08:53 <Lenolium> AKA, if you are running IRC, go through a bouncer.
Dec 03 21:09:06 <Damm> streeter, so you don't leave wifi on and suckup your battery?
Dec 03 21:09:09 <jasta> Lenolium: yes, but you would want that in either case: no connection on a phone is stable
Dec 03 21:09:19 <Damm> ideally if the screen is 'off' you are not using your phone
Dec 03 21:09:22 <mikey|> how is it done in the android files that when the usb is connected, it shows debug messages, otherwise not?
Dec 03 21:09:26 <jasta> EDGE and 3G also disconnect more often than you'd realize
Dec 03 21:09:40 <fadden> Damm: stuff happens in the background (mail push, incoming IM)
Dec 03 21:09:41 <Lenolium> I totally understand shutting off wifi, I just wish I could get a connection dedicated on the cell network.
Dec 03 21:09:46 <jasta> mikey|: what?
Dec 03 21:10:14 <mikey|> jasta: when im connected with my usb cable, i see all sorts of debug messages from android apps
Dec 03 21:10:21 <luok> hm how does connectbot do it
Dec 03 21:10:27 <mikey|> i assume they are only shown when a usb is connected?
Dec 03 21:10:34 <Lenolium> Because the cell network drops every once in a while, but it seems to be a more stable connection that some of my friends ircing on comcast.
Dec 03 21:10:35 <jasta> no, they are recorded always.
Dec 03 21:10:41 <mikey|> heh
Dec 03 21:10:51 <jasta> to a circular buffer in userspace (i think, maybe the kernel)
Dec 03 21:10:51 <Damm> fadden, right, some stuff.
Dec 03 21:10:56 <Damm> fadden, not very reliably also fwiw
Dec 03 21:10:56 <Lenolium> luok: connectbot doesn't let the screen shutdown. :)
Dec 03 21:10:58 <mikey|> i thought one of the good practises of developing for android is to remove log messages?
Dec 03 21:11:06 <Damm> fadden, like SMS sometimes won't come until my screen wakes up
Dec 03 21:11:07 <jasta> Lenolium: that is because it holds a wake lock
Dec 03 21:11:09 <fadden> Log messages are written to /dev/log/*; each log channel has a 64KB buffer
Dec 03 21:11:09 <mikey|> or have them inside a condition
Dec 03 21:11:15 <luok> Lenolium: ah
Dec 03 21:11:59 <mikey|> a day has never felt so long, woke up at 8:30am today
Dec 03 21:12:01 <fadden> mikey|: flooding the log with messages is bad because it'll reduce your performance and push failures out of the circular buffer
Dec 03 21:12:06 <mikey|> usually wake up at 11ish
Dec 03 21:12:35 <mikey|> fadden, i know, thats why i asked if the android apps only show the messages when a usb is connected (and debugging is on)
Dec 03 21:13:05 <fadden> mikey|: disconnect USB, do some stuff, reconnect USB, then "adb logcat" and see if the new stuff is there.
Dec 03 21:13:57 <fadden> You can "adb shell getprop adb.connected", but I don't think anything checks that.
Dec 03 21:14:50 <zhobbs> You can create a Log class and only log when debugging or something
Dec 03 21:15:05 <zhobbs> (that's what I do)
Dec 03 21:15:30 <fadden> You want to make it a compile-time conditional, like "if (DEBUGGING) { Log.i("blah", whatever); }".
Dec 03 21:15:40 <fadden> That way, if you turn debugging off, the log code goes away entirely.
Dec 03 21:16:15 <fadden> (DEBUGGING would be a static final boolean)
Dec 03 21:16:16 <zhobbs> yeah, I just have a Log class that has the v(..), e(...), etc...and just replaced all the imports to point to my Log class
Dec 03 21:16:33 <zhobbs> and a flag like fadden says
Dec 03 21:17:02 <fadden> zhobbs: you want to wrap the Log.x() call.  Otherwise, stuff like "Log.i(TAG, "this " + str + " that")" still performs the StringBuilder concatenation.
Dec 03 21:19:44 <zhobbs> I have a method like Log.i(String tag, String msg) { if (DEBUG) android.util.Log.i(tag,msg); }
Dec 03 21:19:48 <marix_g`1> concatenation,  thats a fun word.
Dec 03 21:19:59 <zhobbs> I don't really follow what you mean about the concatenation
Dec 03 21:20:29 <fadden> zhobbs: in Java, if you write a Log call like I have above, javac generates the StringBuilder calls required to create a single String object from the three separate strings.
Dec 03 21:20:57 <fadden> So your replacement Log.i won't actually output the log, but the call site still has to create a single String argument to pass in as the "msg" arg.
Dec 03 21:21:25 <fadden> If you do this in a performance-critical loop, turning off debug messages won't buy you as much as you'd expect.
Dec 03 21:22:07 <zhobbs> ok, now I see
Dec 03 21:22:35 <fadden> It's annoying -- I want a C-style "#ifdef DEBUG" wrapper that just makes it all go away.  (We have this in the native stuff for the Log.v equivalent.)
Dec 03 21:23:10 <zhobbs> I don't think I log so much that building those Strings is a performance problem
Dec 03 21:23:18 <zhobbs> but it's interesting to think about
Dec 03 21:23:42 <fadden> If you do it in a UI loop, you're generating objects, and moving around in your UI will cause a GC.  (This is the sort of thing the platform people fret about.)
Dec 03 21:24:10 <fadden> They're temporary objects, so a generational GC would take most of the sting out of it, but we don't have that yet.
Dec 03 21:25:31 <mpardo> does anyone know anything about amr audio codec parsing?
Dec 03 21:27:32 <bert0> Could it be possible to install apache on a g1?
Dec 03 21:28:04 <Disconnect> bert0: with root, anything is possible
Dec 03 21:28:15 <Disconnect> without, um... no. well.. kinda. but mostly no.
Dec 03 21:28:33 <bert0> well luckily thats no problem
Dec 03 21:29:22 <jasta> Disconnect: anything is possible provided a substantial commitment of time of course :)
Dec 03 21:29:47 <bert0> time is one thing I have plenty of these days
Dec 03 21:29:56 <mpardo> can MediaRecorder encode mp3?
Dec 03 21:31:11 <marix_g`1> is their a guitar tuner app out somewhere or did i just imagine that...
Dec 03 21:31:33 <meyou> there's that one that's supposed to help you learn musioc
Dec 03 21:31:38 <meyou> haven't seen a guitar tuner yet
Dec 03 21:32:02 <mpardo> there's guitar chords
Dec 03 21:32:06 <bert0> I am adding a guitar tuner app to my wish list too
Dec 03 21:32:10 <marix_g`1> i think thats it
Dec 03 21:32:15 <mpardo> meyou, i'm making guitar tuner right nwo
Dec 03 21:32:18 <mpardo> now*
Dec 03 21:32:29 <mpardo> that's why i've got bizarre questions lol
Dec 03 21:32:31 <marix_g`1> or trying to anyway :-/
Dec 03 21:32:36 <mpardo> exactly
Dec 03 21:32:46 <mreimer> Are threads known to be stable?
Dec 03 21:32:54 <meyou> nice
Dec 03 21:32:58 <fadden> mreimer: in what way?
Dec 03 21:33:11 <mreimer> fadden: I'm having a problem on a very fast armv5 device (you've helped me with these segfaults)
Dec 03 21:33:13 <bert0> mpardo, thanks for making it
Dec 03 21:33:14 <mpardo> i've got everything except parsing frequency out of amr
Dec 03 21:33:33 <mreimer> fadden: we're seeing memory get overwritten
Dec 03 21:33:48 <fadden> mreimer: threads are Linux threads, sync primitives are based on futexes, should be stable on a single-core CPU
Dec 03 21:35:53 <mreimer> fadden: what do you mean by "Linux threads"? I thought Android rolled its own minimal threads in bionic
Dec 03 21:36:35 <fadden> mreimer: I mean the pthread calls in bionic end up in Linux clone(), same as other Linux systems
Dec 03 21:36:42 <mreimer> fadden: gotcha
Dec 03 21:37:07 <fadden> There is always a possibility of weirdness in our pthread implementation.
Dec 03 21:37:27 <marix_g`1> mpardo,  does the sdk have any speech recognition?
Dec 03 21:37:55 <fadden> I spent a fun few days chasing down a rare bug in the recursive mutex code.
Dec 03 21:38:08 <fadden> But on the whole it gets exercised pretty well by the existing system, and has held up.
Dec 03 21:38:17 <mreimer> fadden: this device has a 200 MHz memory bus, and the cpu runs at 816 MHz, so I wonder if it's better at exposing race conditions
Dec 03 21:38:39 <sparkle> mreimer: nice.
Dec 03 21:38:51 <mreimer> sparkle: yeah, on a VGA screen
Dec 03 21:38:54 <fadden> mreimer: if you'd like to send me one I'll take a look at it. :-)
Dec 03 21:39:05 <sparkle> the g1 is heavily memory bandwidth limited as far as i can tell
Dec 03 21:39:06 <mreimer> fadden: I'll ask
Dec 03 21:39:19 <mreimer> sparkle: this thing flies, even without hardware acceleration
Dec 03 21:39:44 <marix_g`1> sparkle,  whats teh speed of the memory bus?
Dec 03 21:39:54 <sparkle> hold
Dec 03 21:39:56 <sparkle> i did an lmbench
Dec 03 21:40:36 <fadden> mreimer: the simulator (not emulator) runs full speed on desktop x86, and has done a fair job as a race-condition generator, but it's using glibc rather than bionic.
Dec 03 21:40:49 <sparkle> if i can find it :p
Dec 03 21:40:52 <mreimer> fadden: we've tracked this particular crash down to frameworks/base/core/jni/android_util_AssetManager.cpp:1332 block->setTo(a->getBuffer(true)...
Dec 03 21:40:56 <sparkle> mem bandwidth tops out at 120MB/s
Dec 03 21:41:02 <marix_g`1> :(
Dec 03 21:41:32 <sparkle> 11ns to l1, 230-300ns for sequential access outside of that, 800+ns latency for random access :p
Dec 03 21:41:45 <mreimer> fadden: if we break that statement down and assign a->getBuffer's result to a local variable, the crash goes away
Dec 03 21:42:21 <fadden> mreimer: what compiler?  the provided gcc toolchain?
Dec 03 21:42:39 <mreimer> fadden: yep. we're guessing that's because the stack gets rearranged enough to avoid getting overwritten
Dec 03 21:42:42 <andyross> That sounds a lot more like a compiler bug (or code generation interaction with missing volatile, etc...).
Dec 03 21:42:51 <mreimer> fadden: this is with a 2.6.26 kernel
Dec 03 21:43:17 <mreimer> fadden: we built Android on a 64-bit machine. Might that cause weird problems?
Dec 03 21:43:22 <mreimer> am building on 32-bit now
Dec 03 21:43:42 <fadden> mreimer: shouldn't affect the output of the cross-compiler
Dec 03 21:43:43 <mreimer> fadden: "yep" meaning yes, using the prebuilt toolchain in the open-source drop
Dec 03 21:44:39 <fadden> mreimer: you good with ARM code?  Might be useful to arm-eabi-dump -d the android_util_AssetManager.o both ways
Dec 03 21:45:16 <mreimer> fadden: I've done some arm disassembly and hand-patching
Dec 03 21:45:31 <RyeBrye> mreimer - what device is this you are playing with?
Dec 03 21:46:17 <mreimer> RyeBrye: http://www.sdgsystems.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49&Itemid=51
Dec 03 21:47:36 <mreimer> RyeBrye: it's a very well designed device, especially compared to others I've seen
Dec 03 21:47:52 <luok> haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1dDyUqQudk
Dec 03 21:47:58 <RyeBrye> It'd had better be - for $1600 to $2k :)
Dec 03 21:48:07 <fadden> mreimer: anyway, the actual contents of the function in "known good" vs. "known crash" might be interesting.
Dec 03 21:48:08 <mreimer> indeed
Dec 03 21:48:21 <marix_g`1> eldang,  thats a beast of a "phone"
Dec 03 21:48:34 <famast1> what is the simplest way (in xml) to set the background of a layout (like linearLayout) to a gradient
Dec 03 21:48:36 <RyeBrye> it doesn't have a phone radio does it?
Dec 03 21:48:45 <mreimer> fadden: thanks, I'll check into it
Dec 03 21:48:48 <fadden> I beat my head against an ARM generation bug a couple years back, but it's been pretty solid since.
Dec 03 21:48:56 <mreimer> RyeBrye: you can get gsm and I think cdma
Dec 03 21:49:32 <User135> Any way to switch my imei from my razor to my g1?
Dec 03 21:49:37 <marix_g`1> god damn it queen is awesome.
Dec 03 21:49:49 <mreimer> fadden: should 2.6.26 be adequate?
Dec 03 21:50:15 <mreimer> I noticed a shared mmap patch for armv5 go in after 2.6.26
Dec 03 21:50:23 <RyeBrye> the G1's are running on 2.6.25 right now
Dec 03 21:50:38 <mreimer> RyeBrye: I guess that answers that
Dec 03 21:51:22 <RyeBrye> The latest work on the android-msm kernel seems to be happening in the 2.6.27 branch, but there aren't any public releases
Dec 03 21:53:20 <fadden> mreimer: FWIW, I tried the change you described ("const void* buf = a->getBuffer(true);" then call buf) and the output of arm-eabi-objdump -d was the same.
Dec 03 21:53:30 <fadden> (which is what I was expecting)
Dec 03 21:53:41 <fadden> So something is up.
Dec 03 21:56:26 <marix_g`1> mreimer, you're gonna take a video of android underwater right?
Dec 03 21:57:03 <mreimer> marix_g`1: that'd be cool!
Dec 03 21:58:36 <meyou> is there some technical reason the android can't record video?
Dec 03 21:58:36 <marix_g`1> so,  after running w/ the accelerometer changing screen orientation app i can see why the scrapped it...
Dec 03 21:58:46 <meyou> it seems like this function could be added via an app
Dec 03 21:58:55 <marix_g`1> google doesn't want to 1 up the iphone?
Dec 03 21:59:03 <meyou> lol
Dec 03 21:59:05 <meyou> lies
Dec 03 21:59:34 <marix_g`1> given how poorly the still camera app works i wonder if maybe it just wasnt ready
Dec 03 21:59:45 <marix_g`1> because,  man does that app suck balls
Dec 03 21:59:55 <meyou> yeah the 5+ second shutter delay can be tiresome
Dec 03 22:00:06 <marix_g`1> the startup time is horrid aswell
Dec 03 22:00:08 <unix_lappy> the application or the user should decide whether the orientation should change, NOT the OS.
Dec 03 22:00:48 <RyeBrye> In the case of the mail program, it does - it wont rotate even if the auto rotate is turned on
Dec 03 22:00:49 <mreimer> fadden: my coworker says the following patch makes the crash go away (though we run into trouble down the line: "Bad XML..."): http://pastebin.com/mf94341f
Dec 03 22:01:06 <mreimer> fadden: the "take two" case doesn't get hit
Dec 03 22:01:26 <unix_lappy> howdy RyeBrye
Dec 03 22:01:27 <mreimer> fadden: but if he makes 'p' static, the crash returns
Dec 03 22:01:37 <luok> marix_g`1: does orientation changing not work well?
Dec 03 22:02:09 <fadden> mreimer: making 'p' static is going to be very bad if two threads are running.
Dec 03 22:02:32 <mreimer> fadden: good point. this is system_server btw, with 15 threads going
Dec 03 22:02:34 <fadden> mreimer: the LOGE turns into a system call which can cause the scheduler to switch threads
Dec 03 22:02:43 <mreimer> ah
Dec 03 22:03:46 <mreimer> fadden: do you have a pthreads stress tester for Android/bionic?
Dec 03 22:03:56 <fadden> mreimer: yes, it's called "system_server". :-)
Dec 03 22:04:04 <mreimer> :-)
Dec 03 22:04:51 <fadden> You said "take two" doesn't get hit.  So it's failing out in getBuffer()?
Dec 03 22:05:18 <fadden> Or just that p is non-nil?
Dec 03 22:05:57 <fadden> Might be useful to check the contents of the buffer that "p" points to.
Dec 03 22:06:46 <mreimer> fadden: "I put code in ensureAlignment that indicates it is not returning null, but setTo fails because it was passed a null pointer."
Dec 03 22:07:52 <mreimer> fadden: so somehow in a short span of instructions the value gets overwritten as NULL
Dec 03 22:08:45 <fadden> mreimer: that suggests that a register is getting trampled, which seems unlikely
Dec 03 22:08:52 <fadden> (barring gcc hosage)
Dec 03 22:09:50 <mreimer> fadden: I doubt it's gcc hosage, since we're using the same compiler (prebuilt/linux-x86/tools...) on the same arch (armv5)
Dec 03 22:10:22 <mreimer> fadden: coworker's here now, nick aric
Dec 03 22:10:23 <fadden> mreimer: if you suspect mmap() may be an issue, you can increase kReadVsMapThreshold or tweak frameworks/base/libs/utils/Asset.cpp:_FileAsset::getBuffer to always read into a heap buffer instead of memory-mapping the file.
Dec 03 22:10:40 <mreimer> fadden: ah, good idea
Dec 03 22:14:18 <raidfive> similar to findViewById, is it possible to set a view by id?
Dec 03 22:15:28 <mikey|> i need a way to do at also :o
Dec 03 22:15:40 <mikey|> jump to a window with a specific tag (if that is what you mean)
Dec 03 22:17:18 <fadden> mreimer: you're not, say, booting this over NFS are you?
Dec 03 22:17:40 <mreimer> fadden: no, yaffs2 on NAND flash, using the mainline pxa3xx_nand driver with a fix
Dec 03 22:18:05 <mreimer> fadden: I even tried adding flush_cache_all() in the driver's read_buf() and write_buf()
Dec 03 22:25:13 <bgupta> Ok.. screwed up situation...
Dec 03 22:26:23 <sparkle> best kind
Dec 03 22:26:31 <bgupta> I accidentally somehow confirmed the update.. but I removed the battery within a few seconds...
Dec 03 22:26:53 <sparkle> ok...
Dec 03 22:26:54 <bgupta> now every time I try and power up it tries to start the update..
Dec 03 22:27:03 <bgupta> is there any way to recover?
Dec 03 22:27:07 <sparkle> hmmm
Dec 03 22:27:27 <sparkle> i think there was a post on the xda board about this
Dec 03 22:27:29 <bgupta> Or am I basically stuck with having to upgrade and hope they jailbreak b30
Dec 03 22:27:48 <sparkle> someone had the same thing happen
Dec 03 22:27:50 <sparkle> they were able to get out
Dec 03 22:27:54 <bgupta> ok...
Dec 03 22:28:01 <sparkle> can you get into recovery mode?
Dec 03 22:28:09 <bgupta> NOt sure how
Dec 03 22:28:22 <jbq> recovery = boot with the home key pressed.
Dec 03 22:28:34 <bgupta> I haven't had time to do a lot of diggin and playing which is why I am having this issue.. gonna try that
Dec 03 22:28:36 <sparkle> nods
Dec 03 22:29:13 <sparkle> so it has an original recovery image
Dec 03 22:29:19 <bgupta> same situation...
Dec 03 22:29:26 <jbq> be aware that you're playing with fire here. If the update actually starts and you pull the battery half-way through, it's not quite clear which state you'll be in and how you'll be able to recover.
Dec 03 22:29:41 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 22:29:55 <bgupta> no recovery console.
Dec 03 22:29:57 <sparkle> it's under warranty :)
Dec 03 22:30:17 <bgupta> hmmm... yeah, but I will prolly get a new one, with b30, yeah?
Dec 03 22:30:39 <bgupta> Freaking annoying, it's worse than iPhone.
Dec 03 22:30:45 <sparkle> yeah
Dec 03 22:30:47 <sparkle> heh
Dec 03 22:31:17 <sparkle> though it's pretty cool once you thrash it into shape
Dec 03 22:32:01 <jbq> bgupta: sorry that we implemented a mechanism that allow to fix e.g. major security holes in the browser (like in RC30) even if you're not at a computer.
Dec 03 22:32:36 * sparkle nods
Dec 03 22:32:45 <bgupta> I don't mind the fact that's it's cabable of doing it, it's that it's so intrusive...
Dec 03 22:32:56 <sparkle> jbq, i have my g1 up as an afs cell now :)
Dec 03 22:33:10 <jbq> (being a bit facetious here, and I understand that it's not exactly what you wanted in this situation, but it's a fairly valuable feature)
Dec 03 22:33:26 <bgupta> I agree OTA updates are a holy grail
Dec 03 22:33:30 <sparkle> sometimes you just have to take technology where it wasn't supposed to go
Dec 03 22:34:14 <bgupta> but.. I have been waiting for a hackable linux/unix phone for ages... and with all the Open advertasing Google was spinning I assumed this would be the device.
Dec 03 22:34:28 <bgupta> Ala the the Linksys router of cellphones
Dec 03 22:34:59 <jbq> *nod*
Dec 03 22:35:16 <Disconnect> bgupta: shoulda gotten a moko. its hackable (although it's qualifications as a cellphone are dubious)
Dec 03 22:35:26 <bgupta> moko is garbage
Dec 03 22:37:02 <Disconnect> wait'll you get farther into android. ;)
Dec 03 22:37:35 <bgupta> That was a bit harsh... but it's definately not ready for any sort of productive use
Dec 03 22:38:37 <bgupta> Sparkle: What's the deal, trying to find the xda article.
Dec 03 22:38:41 * Disconnect is still waiting for a one-line email fix
Dec 03 22:38:46 <Lenolium> The only thing I want in the G1 is real teathering support.
Dec 03 22:39:00 <Disconnect> Lenolium: got root?
Dec 03 22:39:10 <bgupta> Still carry a Treo 800w to use as a WiFi hotspot
Dec 03 22:39:21 <sparkle> bgupta, i'll try to find it when i make it back to my desk
Dec 03 22:39:24 <jbq> It's really sad that the CPU in the OpenMoko devices only implements ARMv4T while Android requires ARMv5TE. That's an unfortunate mismatch.
Dec 03 22:39:33 * Disconnect needs to hash out some speed problems (not gonna happen today..) but bt pan tethering is available
Dec 03 22:39:37 <bgupta> Android will get there, but not via Java apps
Dec 03 22:39:47 <bgupta> thanks sparkle..
Dec 03 22:40:08 <Lenolium> Disconnect: I upgraded too quickly. So no root for me.
Dec 03 22:40:19 <bgupta> Damn I gotta run out with laptop to usergroup meeting... gonna send you my email via private
Dec 03 22:40:37 <Disconnect> Lenolium: then (once i get a new version submitted) you can help by submitting useful comments to my patches in garrit.
Dec 03 22:41:01 <Lenolium> Disconnect: I would be happy to.
Dec 03 22:41:03 <Disconnect> and hoping tmob does a full 180 in their attitudes about tethering. and releases some usability patches someday.
Dec 03 22:41:09 <spikebike> jpq seems like 99% of the magic is either in the linux kernel, or the android userspace
Dec 03 22:41:15 <spikebike> jpg so they just need to port dex
Dec 03 22:41:20 <spikebike> er dalvik
Dec 03 22:41:52 <mikey|> are there any images of the images that ship with the sdk by default?
Dec 03 22:41:58 <mikey|> like for menu bar, etc
Dec 03 22:42:21 <fadden> spikebike: dalvik changes were pretty minimal (can't use ldrd/strd, need to bx rather than just move to PC)
Dec 03 22:42:39 * Disconnect thought it was somewhat ridiculous that android wants to run 'everywhere' but requires ASM hacking and cpu support rather than working with a higher-level abstractions that .. you know.. run everywhere..
Dec 03 22:42:43 <jbq> spikebike: if 99% of the change is split between kernel an user-space, I wonder where the last 1% went ;-)
Dec 03 22:42:53 <Disconnect> jbq: mandelbrot app
Dec 03 22:42:59 <spikebike> heh
Dec 03 22:43:19 <jbq> Anything that's written in C should require no additional work. It's the assembly stuff that needs some attention.
Dec 03 22:43:31 <spikebike> Just seems like you take any linux kernel (which openmoku has) port dalvik and the hard part is the screen resolution and lack of keyboard
Dec 03 22:43:54 <Disconnect> totally unrelated, but i wanna go home. :) anyone here want to peek at my mod-rewrite disaster?
Dec 03 22:44:08 <Disconnect> #apache is alternately silent and intro-to-computers :(
Dec 03 22:44:21 <Lenolium> Disconnect: Having inspired a number of mod_rewrite disasters, I'll help you out there.
Dec 03 22:44:53 <jbq> spikebike: the 3 areas I'm aware of are primarily libc, dalvik, and pixelflinger. I don't know how OpenGL and skia are affected.
Dec 03 22:45:04 <Disconnect> Lenolium: cool :)  http://pastebin.ca/1275371 .. trying to use mod-rewrite to resolve the directory index (BAR-index.htm in this case) and redirect to the completed url (www.foo.com/stuff/BAR-index.htm) it acts like it is firing, but doesn't change the url
Dec 03 22:46:05 <jbq> spikebike: on the kernel side, you still need a kernel that has all the openmoko drivers and all the android drivers. The work has been done already, and it's not related to differences in the instruction set.
Dec 03 22:46:53 <mikey||> it works!
Dec 03 22:47:04 <sparkle> yay!
Dec 03 22:47:07 <sparkle> what?
Dec 03 22:47:14 <mikey||> irc app
Dec 03 22:47:21 <sparkle> oh cool
Dec 03 22:47:35 <Disconnect>  mikey|| mind if i try to upset it? :)
Dec 03 22:47:50 <mikey|> go ahead
Dec 03 22:48:18 <mikey|> Disconnect: get my pm?
Dec 03 22:49:01 <Lenolium> mikey|: Can I have a look as well?
Dec 03 22:49:17 <Disconnect> yah pm worked
Dec 03 22:49:48 <mikey|> Lenolium: still a few bugs to sort out :)
Dec 03 22:49:53 <mikey|> soon, very soon
Dec 03 22:50:41 <mikey|> one more coursework then im free to work on this until january
Dec 03 22:50:45 <DJTachyon> well .. looks like my company is flying me out to san fran this tomorrow morning
Dec 03 22:50:54 <DJTachyon> never been to cali ;)
Dec 03 22:51:09 <Disconnect> DJTachyon: how long will you be there?
Dec 03 22:51:32 <jbq> DJTachyon: where are you flying from?
Dec 03 22:51:50 <DJTachyon> somewhere between thurs-fri and thurs-sun
Dec 03 22:51:52 <Disconnect> Lenolium: any suggestions on that config?
Dec 03 22:51:56 <DJTachyon> from Newark
Dec 03 22:52:20 <DJTachyon> gonna be a long flight .. :P
Dec 03 22:52:39 <jbq> DJTachyon: you might find the weather slightly different at this time of the year (a bit warmer here).
Dec 03 22:52:43 <Lenolium> Disconnect: Did you see the updated post I fired back?
Dec 03 22:52:50 <DJTachyon> actually going to Benicia
Dec 03 22:53:03 <DJTachyon> so i have an hour drive after I get to SF
Dec 03 22:53:11 <jbq> amusingly, there's a "newark" city in the bay area.
Dec 03 22:53:16 <DJTachyon> lol
Dec 03 22:53:21 <Disconnect> yah but the host is the same. we're turning www.foo.com/stuff/ into www.foo.com/stuff/FOO-index.htm (where FOO-index.htm comes from DirectoryIndex)
Dec 03 22:54:02 <DJTachyon> welp should be fun ... too bad I couldnt take the company jet
Dec 03 22:54:03 <DJTachyon> :)
Dec 03 22:54:04 <Disconnect> so we want www.foo.com/stuff/FOO-index.htm to pass through but www.foo.com/stuff/ to trip (the passthrough version, which is the same rewritecond but no !, works fine. and this whole mess was ok in apache1.3)
Dec 03 22:54:37 <DJTachyon> i have taken a company Aerostar to long island from jersey though :P .. the view of NYC is awesome
Dec 03 22:55:29 <fadden> Disconnect: (older topic) you are free to use the "portable" interpreter on your ARMv4T device.
Dec 03 22:55:42 <DJTachyon> here is a crappy video from my Moto Q landing in the Aerostar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn50Q4WJRk0
Dec 03 22:56:33 <luok> DJTachyon: lol i thought you meant ford aerostar
Dec 03 22:56:40 <DJTachyon> everybody does ;)
Dec 03 22:59:03 <DJTachyon> uh oh .. everybody is probably looking at my other videos now :0
Dec 03 23:00:13 <Disconnect> they're on youtube. if you want them private, leave them at home..
Dec 03 23:00:45 <DJTachyon> hehe they are awesome .. i dont care ;)
Dec 03 23:00:56 <DJTachyon> apart from the horrible audio on a couple of them
Dec 03 23:02:06 <tethridge> I'm at work, but I'm wondering why there is a clip named "cock in your mouth" when I view your clip about a airplane landing
Dec 03 23:02:14 <tethridge> I can't touch that one
Dec 03 23:02:16 <DJTachyon> o_O
Dec 03 23:02:39 <fadden> tethridge: no doubt it's about the old circus geeks
Dec 03 23:02:57 * DJTachyon is confuzzled...
Dec 03 23:02:58 <an_dev> does anybody know anything about HTMLViewer app in android source code?
Dec 03 23:03:35 <fadden> (originally, a "geek" was somebody who bit the head off of a live chicken)
Dec 03 23:03:49 <DJTachyon> what does that make Ozzy?
Dec 03 23:03:58 <Disconnect> an underachiever
Dec 03 23:04:02 <fadden> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek
Dec 03 23:04:07 <DJTachyon> hehehe
Dec 03 23:04:15 <DJTachyon> anyway .. ill be IRC'ing from my phone in cali by tomorrow morning
Dec 03 23:04:23 <DJTachyon> i gotta get packin ..
Dec 03 23:08:55 <bmk789> can any phones other than the G1 run android natively?
Dec 03 23:12:36 <Lenolium> bmk789: I think there are some that can run it via hacks
Dec 03 23:12:52 <mikey|> cant freerunner or something do it?
Dec 03 23:13:21 <bmk789> Lenolium, ive seen a few with windows mobile use some app to launch android on top of it but that doesnt run the same does it?
Dec 03 23:13:25 <mikey|> btw, this is strange, my app can still update the screen even when it's not in focus
Dec 03 23:14:53 <Lenolium> bmk789: Well, from what I understand, those run as if they were running with the full power of the system, so it's like they were native, but how much of the phone it actually supports, who knows.
Dec 03 23:15:34 <bmk789>  hm, maybe ill look into one of them then
Dec 03 23:16:00 <bmk789> thanks
Dec 03 23:18:54 <mikey|> http://androidirc.net/
Dec 03 23:18:56 <mikey|> nn
Dec 03 23:26:00 <blau> mikey is that urs?
Dec 03 23:27:50 <unix_lappy> heh, according to mikey| it looks tmobile gave him an 8GB sd card to go along with his free android phone ;-P
Dec 03 23:28:12 <blau> free phone?
Dec 03 23:38:35 <Lieutenant> DUDE
Dec 03 23:38:39 <Lieutenant> mikey!
Dec 03 23:38:59 <Lieutenant> make it where u can SLIDE the channel windows left to right to switch between them
Dec 03 23:39:00 <Lieutenant> AND
Dec 03 23:39:06 <Lieutenant> here is another great suggestion
Dec 03 23:40:03 <Lieutenant> make it where u can TOGGLE between servers by swiping the screen UPWARDS (so the new server window comes from the bottem) when you are viewing live text.
Dec 03 23:40:19 <ttuttle> Lieutenant: How do you scroll?
Dec 03 23:40:21 <Lieutenant> bitch aint here.
Dec 03 23:40:24 <ttuttle> Lieutenant: ...
Dec 03 23:40:40 <Lieutenant> no, u have to be viewing LIVE text (already at the bottem so u cant scroll down anymore)
Dec 03 23:40:57 <Lieutenant> so just swipe a large portion of the screen upwards, and it'll go to the next server
Dec 03 23:41:08 <eldenz> so if you were scrolling up to read stuff and scroll back down... you accidently toggle server? :)
Dec 03 23:41:13 <Lieutenant> no dude.
Dec 03 23:41:20 <Lieutenant> u have to START at the bottem
Dec 03 23:41:54 <eldenz> one could also use different areas to detect scrolls, like connectbot does
Dec 03 23:42:14 <Lieutenant> yeah, but still, my idea works perfectly also. your idea is great too
Dec 03 23:42:42 <eldenz> i don't take any credit though ;)
Dec 03 23:43:07 <Lieutenant> word. i want mikey to come online so i can tell him my suggestions :(
Dec 03 23:43:14 <Lieutenant> and i want the beat
Dec 03 23:43:15 <Lieutenant> beta
Dec 03 23:52:13 <foonixx> Hey.  Does anyone know a way to temporarily at run-time prevent an activity from being restarted when the orientation is changed?  I have some async network operations going on, and flipping orientation while they're running makes weird things happen.  I know I can always force a certain activity to have a constant orientation, but I just need to temporarily twiddle this behavior.
Dec 03 23:53:08 <jbq> Your problem is probably that this async network operation isn't async enough from the activity lifecycle.
Dec 03 23:53:54 <foonixx> jbq: How do you mean?  I don't follow.
Dec 03 23:54:15 <andyross> Stopping an activity doesn't terminate the process.  There's no reason you can't leave the operation running.  Or am I misunderstanding?
Dec 03 23:54:36 <jbq> I think that the real answer should be "don't mess with your network stuff when the activity changes".
Dec 03 23:55:08 <foonixx> Well, the async operation modifies some views when it completes.  If the activity gets destroyed and then recreated, the completion handler guy ends up modifying views in the now defunct activity.
Dec 03 23:55:54 <jbq> sounds like you'll be fine if you fix that specific problem.
Dec 03 23:58:15 <andyross> foonixx: what you have there is a MVC design violation. :)
Dec 03 23:58:16 <foonixx> jbq: Yes, that's a good point.  I could keep a static reference to the most recently created instance of the activity, and modify the correct views that way.  Is that following best practices, though?  It feels dirty.
Dec 03 23:59:39 <andyross> Probably better to have a (ahem) "controller" object somewhere responsible for arbitrating which application state changes (call it the "model", just because) should apply to which current views are active.
Dec 04 00:00:23 <foonixx> andyross: That's a completely ridiculous suggestion :-)
Dec 04 00:00:29 * andyross isn't even much a fan of GUI design canon, but this is just too clear cut a case to bother arguing with.
Dec 04 00:06:06 <anno^da_> Will this class 6 sdhc micro sd card run in the G1? http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a342779.html
Dec 04 00:06:18 <jbq> foonixx: I'm not familiar enough with the whole android UI design to know what would be best, but it seems to me that there should be some kind of message that can go from your network code to your UI code that'd run in the UI thread, so that when receiving that message you'd always be able to know exactly what state your UI is in.
Dec 04 00:07:17 <eldenz> 25€?!
Dec 04 00:07:32 <eldenz> why did i pay ~60€ for a class2 16G? ;<
Dec 04 00:08:00 <anno^da_> So the 16GB cards work in the G1?
Dec 04 00:08:11 <eldenz> anno^da_, the sandisk one does
Dec 04 00:08:20 <eldenz> others probably as well
Dec 04 00:09:09 <sparkle> anno^da_: all the 16's i've seen are slow
Dec 04 00:09:26 <anno^da_> Even if they are class 6?
Dec 04 00:10:17 <sparkle> i've not seen any yet but, cool
Dec 04 00:10:42 <anno^da_> http://www.amazon.de/Transcend-SDHC-Card-16-GB/dp/B0015AOK1O/ref=pd_cp_pc_0/276-6188049-6918726?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=06NJDQ1GYNMZQ81GJ0XS&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=213563291&pf_rd_i=B00192S3XO
Dec 04 00:10:47 <anno^da_> here is one :-)
Dec 04 00:11:01 <sparkle> no it's not
Dec 04 00:11:04 <sparkle> that's sdhc, not microsdhc
Dec 04 00:11:12 <anno^da_> ahhh damn :P
Dec 04 00:11:24 <anno^da_> (I wondered about the price :) )
Dec 04 00:11:59 <eldenz> ah lol, the other one isn't micro as well ;>
Dec 04 00:12:04 <eldenz> *phew*
Dec 04 00:12:49 <anno^da_> yeah :-) Im sorry for that error :-)
Dec 04 00:14:08 <anno^da_> http://www.amazon.de/SANDISK-MICROSD-16-GB-SDSDQ-016G-E12M/dp/B001GM2VN0/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1228349507&sr=1-9 <- here is one but no class classification
Dec 04 00:14:26 <eldenz> that's the one i have
Dec 04 00:14:38 <eldenz> i saw it listed as class2 somewhere
Dec 04 00:15:32 <ralfx> Does anyone know which platform I can use to test the IME? In cupcake I see only English, I though there was chinese too.
Dec 04 00:15:44 <anno^da_> Ok so I have to look for class 6 8gb cards since I cant find any class 4-6 16GB cards
Dec 04 00:16:34 <sparkle> anno^da_: i have an A-data brand one, i'm pretty happy with it
Dec 04 00:16:37 <sparkle> and it was cheap
Dec 04 00:17:42 <andyross> My SanDisk 16G card shows about 6MB/s transfer (just doing a time dd ... of=/dev/null).
Dec 04 00:17:48 <mpardo> TextView.setText("blah") isn't changing the text. Do I need to update the view or something?
Dec 04 00:18:20 <jasta> mpardo: no, you do not.
Dec 04 00:18:23 <eldenz> andyross, i just checked with hdparm, says 4.84 MB/sec buffered reads
Dec 04 00:18:57 <mpardo> hmmm does it matter that i'm setting the text within a timer task?
Dec 04 00:19:18 <anno^da_> sparkle: it must be this one: http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Speichermedien_microSDHC/A-DATA/microSDHC_8_GB/308520/?tn=HARDWARE&l1=Speichermedien&l2=Secure+Digital
Dec 04 00:19:21 <eldenz> i'm curious how it compares to a class6..
Dec 04 00:19:43 <eldenz> what class is the 1GB that shipped with the G1?
Dec 04 00:22:08 <eldenz> but anyway, while being in the phone it doesn't really matter whether it's class2 or 6 now, does it?
Dec 04 00:22:22 <eldenz> *accessing it from the phone os
Dec 04 00:22:27 <luok> yeah i'm wondering why it matters..this freakin phone is slloooooowwww
Dec 04 00:22:37 <anno^da_> Well if we will be able to install apps on the sd card in the future it could matter
Dec 04 00:25:02 <Decavolt> is there a best-practice optimal amount of free space on the G1 (the device itself, not the SD card) to keep it speedy?
Dec 04 00:25:46 <RyeBrye> the only thing I've noticed that keeps my G1 speedy is rebooting it every dat
Dec 04 00:25:47 <RyeBrye> err day
Dec 04 00:25:58 <Decavolt> Yah, I've been doing the same.
Dec 04 00:26:21 <Decavolt> hell of a change from what I'm used to with my old Nokia... uptime of 6 months at a time.
Dec 04 00:26:48 <luok> starting to wish my treo 650 never kicked the bucket :(
Dec 04 00:27:32 <Decavolt> My nokia was great, but I wouldn't go back for anything.
Dec 04 00:27:34 <pohamir> sparkle: infernix, thanks for the info, got the debian userland and that iptables script up and running, only had to write a couple wrappers in sh
Dec 04 00:27:52 <infernix> nice
Dec 04 00:27:55 <pohamir> i'll look into that ad-hoc thing next, prolly tomorrow
Dec 04 00:28:01 <infernix> i hope to get my rc28 in a week
Dec 04 00:28:10 <pohamir> lol i closed out my embarq dsl today too
Dec 04 00:28:17 <andyross> FWIW: I haven't noticed any real performance degradation over time.  No doubt there are some bad apps out there, but just running the built-in software stack and doing a decent bit of development I don't find I need to reboot to "speed up" the G1.
Dec 04 00:28:36 <pohamir> infernix: herm, mine is rc29, is that okay? lol i haven't read too much about the firmwares yet
Dec 04 00:28:55 <luok> hm well i'm thinking about swapping bronze for black, so i will probably start fresh
Dec 04 00:28:59 <luok> stupid bronze keyboard !
Dec 04 00:29:02 <infernix> pohamir: you should install the custom rc30 before the OTA update kills you root
Dec 04 00:29:06 <Decavolt> Mine's not dragging ass or anything, but I can easily see myself maxing out storage. Just like a PC there has to be an optimal threshold of free space it "likes"
Dec 04 00:29:16 <andyross> And note that I've done a pretty fair bit of staring at performance on the phone, having never caught an app doing something dumb.  At worst, you tend to see garbage collections at odd times in the logcat.
Dec 04 00:29:26 <pohamir> infernix: where do i get that? rs or torrent?
Dec 04 00:29:32 <pohamir> infernix: does it work with tmobile?
Dec 04 00:29:33 <infernix> pohamir: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448 - read the sticky posts
Dec 04 00:29:39 <pohamir> okay
Dec 04 00:29:55 <fadden> Decavolt: it's not swapping, so space on the internal flash shouldn't cause a slowdown
Dec 04 00:30:14 <fadden> Failures, maybe, but not just a slowdown. :-)
Dec 04 00:30:15 <Decavolt> good to know andyross
Dec 04 00:30:26 <Decavolt> really? It doesn't swap at all? Wow.
Dec 04 00:30:32 <andyross> fadden: it kinda is swapping, in the sense that it can eject disk-based mapped pages.  I've seen it stall reading in code before.
Dec 04 00:30:42 <Decavolt> that certainly changes things
Dec 04 00:30:44 <fadden> andyross: paging rather than swapping
Dec 04 00:30:55 <andyross> Yes yes, but with the same performance characteristics.
Dec 04 00:31:12 <fadden> We've seen some fairly pathological paging performance when things get tight, though I think we got that under control before ship.
Dec 04 00:31:42 <fadden> andyross: not quite the same -- you have to flush a dirty page to disk before you can eject it from physical memory
Dec 04 00:31:51 <fadden> We never do that, so anything we want to unload can be tossed immediately.
Dec 04 00:32:09 <pohamir> infernix: lol, wish i had all this info before i did the debian userland ;>
Dec 04 00:32:14 <luok> hm reboot sped things up considerably
Dec 04 00:32:20 <luok> guess i've got some cleaning to do
Dec 04 00:32:22 <infernix> pohamir: i was rather surprised you didnt know yet :)
Dec 04 00:32:31 <fadden> luok: do you have / can you run "adb shell top" ?
Dec 04 00:32:55 <infernix> pohamir: in any case, i would really suggest to rename otakeys.zip
Dec 04 00:32:56 <pohamir> heh sparkle gave me that debian userland link, and i just did that, then i got that like for the iptables & wifi, and threw that on there :D
Dec 04 00:33:12 <pohamir> infernix: where is that?
Dec 04 00:33:25 <pohamir> haven't found it in that thread yet
Dec 04 00:33:26 <infernix> pohamir: read the stickies, the info is there. also might want to look at modmygphone.com
Dec 04 00:33:31 <luok> fadden: yeah once i'm at home, but i'll have to wait for it to bog down again
Dec 04 00:33:31 <pohamir> okay
Dec 04 00:33:57 <infernix> pohamir: given the fact that i havent done it yet (my current is rc30) i can't help from experience
Dec 04 00:35:00 <snadge> is it going to be possible to add tethering via usb to the g1?
Dec 04 00:35:16 <pohamir> downloading them now
Dec 04 00:35:24 <jasta> snadge: thats possible now, by use of a SOCKS proxy
Dec 04 00:35:25 <grey-> snadge: mmm or bluetooth.
Dec 04 00:35:29 <snadge> its just annoying that the htc tytn ii, can do it via usb or bluetooth
Dec 04 00:35:33 <grey-> snadge: mmm or 802.11! (:
Dec 04 00:35:34 <jasta> snadge: and without root
Dec 04 00:35:57 <snadge> of course.. the tytn ii also crashes all the time, and runs winmo
Dec 04 00:36:16 <luok> sounds like its up to tmobile and i don't see why they'd want to allow it
Dec 04 00:36:30 <jasta> ...as i said, it's possible now with a SOCKS proxy implemented as an android app
Dec 04 00:36:33 <jasta> which does exist
Dec 04 00:36:35 <snadge> having said that.. im currently in the back seat of an suv in los angeles somewhere, tethered to one via bluetooth.. on an laptop
Dec 04 00:36:36 <florz> any hints where to find an arm sqlite3 binary in order to put it onto an RC29 G1?
Dec 04 00:36:51 <jasta> florz: pull one off the emulator
Dec 04 00:37:02 <snadge> cool, i might go with the socks proxy option then for now
Dec 04 00:37:32 <jasta> its a limited approach of course, but really what did you plan tod o with your EDGE/3G data connection other than browse the web and use other simple TCP protocols?
Dec 04 00:37:58 <Slackwise> Host a web server...? :P
Dec 04 00:38:03 <snadge> all i care about really is web browsing and ssh, so yeah.. you are right
Dec 04 00:38:06 <andyross> True (router) tethering is possible right now for rooted phones.  Requires hand configuration though, there's no management app written.
Dec 04 00:38:33 <snadge> my g1 is unlocked.. that doesnt mean the same thing as "rooted" i take it?
Dec 04 00:38:40 <jasta> Slackwise: which you could not do with an EDGE or 3G connection on any carrier i've ever heard of.
Dec 04 00:39:00 <Slackwise> jasta: The ":P" denotes sarcasm, unless you're just being pedantic for kicks.
Dec 04 00:39:09 <jasta> snadge: the point is, a SOCKS proxy approach is not a hack.  it's just an app, running as any other on the phone.
Dec 04 00:39:31 <jasta> it could also be made to work neatly over wi-fi if you want it wireless, and even bluetooth once those apis come out
Dec 04 00:39:33 <andyross> "unlocked" generally means you can use it on a non-T-Mobile network.  "rooted" means you have the ability to run code as root on the phone, generally because you installed one of the modified flash images before upgrading to RC30
Dec 04 00:39:34 <snadge> right.. true nat would be a bonus, but its not essential for me
Dec 04 00:40:00 <snadge> let me check what revision i have
Dec 04 00:40:15 <sparkle> eldenz: the sdcard speed makes a huge difference
Dec 04 00:40:24 <sparkle> especially if you are running a unix userland off of it
Dec 04 00:40:43 <snadge> i have RC28
Dec 04 00:40:56 <snadge> is that the one with the "shutdown" bug? :P
Dec 04 00:40:57 <eldenz> sparkle, ;)
Dec 04 00:41:04 <Damm> if you have rc28 you can install JF's rooted RC30
Dec 04 00:41:05 <andyross> Good.  When it asks you to upgrade, say no.  And go check out the instructions for reflashing.
Dec 04 00:41:06 <Damm> and stay rooted
Dec 04 00:41:30 <snadge> i havn't enabled a data connection on it yet.. i just use wifi for the moment
Dec 04 00:41:31 <eldenz> sparkle, and what if not? then it probably makes an almost nil difference
Dec 04 00:41:41 <sparkle> and heh jasta
Dec 04 00:42:00 <Decavolt> sorry if I missed this in the scroll, but does it need to be rooted in order for SOCKS proxy tethering to work?
Dec 04 00:42:05 <sparkle> if you don't demand anything of it, you won't notice anything from it
Dec 04 00:42:14 <andyross> No.  SOCKS can be done in pure userspace with no root access needed.
Dec 04 00:42:48 <andyross> (although the current SOCKS solutions won't run over bluetooth, you need to do port forwarding with adb or the like)
Dec 04 00:42:50 <Decavolt> ah, great. Thanks andyross. I'm on rc30 unrooted.
Dec 04 00:42:56 <offby1> jbq: thanks
Dec 04 00:43:07 <sparkle> oh i remember
Dec 04 00:43:19 <sparkle> the comment about - browsing the web and using simple stuff
Dec 04 00:43:19 <andyross> Heh, where "current" SOCKS solutions means the solutions that aren't, you know, "current" :)
Dec 04 00:43:26 * Damm awaits the way to get root back so we can get rooted for us post RC30 folks (or RC30 actually)
Dec 04 00:43:33 <sparkle> i've had smartphones for years and none of them blinked at tethering or proxying their connections
Dec 04 00:43:49 <Damm> sparkle, well T-Mobile's awkward lately
Dec 04 00:43:52 <snadge> im not sure who to blame.. t-mobile or google
Dec 04 00:43:57 <Damm> I blame T-Mobile
Dec 04 00:44:08 * andyross guesses Google just didn't get the feature finished.  The bits and pieces are all there, and TMO sells other smart phones with tethering IIRC.
Dec 04 00:44:25 <sparkle> t-mobile sells a bunch of handsets that support tethering - though to be fair, they were probably worried about their 3g network getting overloaded
Dec 04 00:44:26 <snadge> will it be available as a free upgrade though in the future
Dec 04 00:44:31 <Damm> andyross, actually they're disabling it on certain handsets
Dec 04 00:44:40 * andyross sighs...
Dec 04 00:44:45 <Decavolt> yeah, it has to be coming pretty soon. It's too big of a feature to just leave out
Dec 04 00:44:47 <pohamir> what is this adb thing sparkle ?
Dec 04 00:44:57 <Damm> pretty much their 3G handsets can barely do tethering, if at all...
Dec 04 00:44:59 <sparkle> android debug bridge?
Dec 04 00:45:06 <pohamir> o
Dec 04 00:45:08 <snadge> i cant wait until theres non t-mobile handsets :/
Dec 04 00:45:10 <Damm> starting to sell more handsets that lack tethering
Dec 04 00:45:11 <sparkle> well
Dec 04 00:45:16 <sparkle> tmo always let you take other handsets in
Dec 04 00:45:26 <sparkle> i usually had nokia communicators and the like
Dec 04 00:45:30 <pohamir> sparkle: do i need that to image it? or can i copy the stuff over manually?
Dec 04 00:45:40 <sparkle> you don't actually need adb at any step in the process
Dec 04 00:45:42 <sparkle> but it can be handy
Dec 04 00:45:54 <pohamir> okay
Dec 04 00:46:32 <luok> is tethering possible on rc30 ota updated g1?
Dec 04 00:46:57 <Decavolt> sounds like it is luok
Dec 04 00:47:05 <Damm> only socks
Dec 04 00:47:09 <luok> ah k
Dec 04 00:48:57 <sparkle> honestly, when i think about the whole fear-of-bandwidth-hogs problem
Dec 04 00:49:09 <sparkle> i'd be perfectly fine with them charging by the megabyte
Dec 04 00:49:22 <snadge> im going to put JF's RC30 on mine.. wheres the howto to enable tethering on that? (iptables im assuming)
Dec 04 00:50:08 <sparkle> do you want to connect via 802.11 or bluetooth?
Dec 04 00:51:10 <andyross> Yes.  iptables for routing and pand for the bluetooth side.  Disconnect did the work, his writeup is at: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/515  No doubt someone's done some scripting around this already, but those instructions work.
Dec 04 00:51:51 <andyross> (note the other hole is a missing DNS server -- you'll need to set one up manually on the tethered host)
Dec 04 00:51:59 <andyross> tethered client, rather
Dec 04 00:52:04 <snadge> i see.. and no usb support im assuming either
Dec 04 00:52:43 <andyross> You could run packets over an adb port forward, but you'd need to write some code for that (or wrap a pppd, about which I know nothing)
Dec 04 00:53:16 <snadge> does the socks option work with usb? (im assuming thats what adb is)
Dec 04 00:53:55 <sparkle> right - adb is just used as a convenient conduit for data
Dec 04 00:54:19 <jsharkey> andyross: there is a nice firefox setting to tunnel dns over socks
Dec 04 00:54:38 <jsharkey> network.proxy.socks_remote_dns in about:config
Dec 04 00:54:39 <snadge> on an unrelated note, the roads in los angeles are terrible.. using a laptop in the back of an suv is starting to make me feel sick
Dec 04 00:57:27 <Decavolt> gah, just rebooted and now I'm getting spammed with txt messages saying myFaves is unavailable. Which is great, since I don't have or use myFaves in the first place.
Dec 04 00:58:46 <foonixx> Decavolt: I saw that as well.
Dec 04 00:58:56 <anno^da_> Decavolt: If you need an image without the MyFavs crap use the UK RC8 update.
Dec 04 00:59:06 <anno^da_> (the modified one)
Dec 04 00:59:24 <anno^da_> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=445544
Dec 04 00:59:25 <Decavolt> It's never done that before this latest reboot. So I'm going to assume (i.e. hope) it's some network fubar that'll go away
Dec 04 00:59:34 <Decavolt> but I'll check that link for sure, thanks anno^da_
Dec 04 00:59:36 <snadge> is there a way to activate/register the phone after a reset.. without using a t-mobile sim?
Dec 04 00:59:38 <anno^da_> no problem
Dec 04 01:00:07 <anno^da_> snadge: you can register/activate it without a T-Mobile Sim
Dec 04 01:00:27 <snadge> i've got the lady who sold me my g1's email address in mine.. and im too scared to reset it, to put my details into it.. because when we first unboxed the phone, it kept coming up with this error that the sim was not provisioned for data or some such
Dec 04 01:01:04 <anno^da_> Just do the registering process this will fail since the phone only knows T-Mobile APNs
Dec 04 01:01:24 <anno^da_> After the failing you can press the menu button and get to the APN settings
Dec 04 01:01:37 <anno^da_> and add your APN according to your carrier
Dec 04 01:02:01 <anno^da_> After that the G1 can connect to the internet and the registering process succeeds
Dec 04 01:02:42 <anno^da_> (I've done that yesterday)
Dec 04 01:03:00 <snadge> i'll give that a try when i get back to australia.. which is in about a week
Dec 04 01:03:22 <snadge> in the meantime, i think i'll leave RC28 on it.. i just dont want to brick the thing
Dec 04 01:03:36 <anno^da_> If you need some pictures: http://modmygphone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3201
Dec 04 01:03:53 <jbq> snadge: just be sure to only browse sites that you trust well.
Dec 04 01:06:49 <pohamir> infernix: okay the modded rc30 is on it
Dec 04 01:06:57 <pohamir> i wonder if it got rid of my iptables script
Dec 04 01:07:22 <pohamir> prolly, that was the only one i didn't back up :<
Dec 04 01:07:35 <florz> any idea what might be causing telnet sessions to a g1 to regularly go dead?
Dec 04 01:07:51 <pohamir> i don't know but mine did that on rc29
Dec 04 01:08:02 <sparkle> florz: they just do that
Dec 04 01:08:06 <sparkle> the telnetd falls over easily
Dec 04 01:08:07 <pohamir> also, after a direct reboot, i have to run telnetd twice to get it to start
Dec 04 01:08:11 <snadge> hmm.. so at&t 3g doesnt work with unlocked g1?
Dec 04 01:08:17 <pohamir> no
Dec 04 01:08:23 <pohamir> differnt freqs
Dec 04 01:09:02 <bradleyy_> am I the only one who has the real RC30 (no root, boo!)
Dec 04 01:09:10 <infernix> no
Dec 04 01:09:11 <infernix> :)
Dec 04 01:09:12 <Decavolt> I do bradleyy_
Dec 04 01:09:37 <bradleyy_> I think we should start a support group
Dec 04 01:09:41 <eugene> morning andy lovers
Dec 04 01:09:48 <bradleyy_> I'm bradley and I have rc30
Dec 04 01:09:48 <infernix> RC30A
Dec 04 01:10:01 <florz> hmmm, ic ... any (easy) alternatives to the telnetd that's on there
Dec 04 01:10:02 <florz> ?
Dec 04 01:10:05 <infernix> hi bradley, thanks for sharing
Dec 04 01:10:12 <pohamir> time would be better spent looking for a sploit
Dec 04 01:10:15 <bradleyy_> hah
Dec 04 01:10:15 <pohamir> :]
Dec 04 01:10:25 <sparkle> florz: sshd :)
Dec 04 01:10:27 <bradleyy_> agreed, any progress?
Dec 04 01:10:39 <pohamir> luwlz i am on a mod rc30 now, no need :D
Dec 04 01:11:01 <infernix> would really just be for the best to figure out how to use the HTC bootloader
Dec 04 01:11:14 <infernix> and flash DREAIMG.NBH from SD
Dec 04 01:11:26 <florz> sparkle: is there any easy-to-deploy binary somewhere? =:-)
Dec 04 01:11:30 <luok> bradleyy_: what the heck do we need it for anyway!
Dec 04 01:11:47 <bradleyy_> thought the HTC bootloader isn't available on the g1
Dec 04 01:11:53 <infernix> it is
Dec 04 01:11:59 <bradleyy_> I need it so I can implement a PPTP VPN
Dec 04 01:12:09 <infernix> but its different as the other htc devices
Dec 04 01:12:11 <infernix> eg no USB
Dec 04 01:12:16 <bradleyy_> for luok
Dec 04 01:12:17 <pohamir> lol now how do i get root?
Dec 04 01:12:35 <pohamir> i didn't read that far on the mod rc30 :\
Dec 04 01:12:38 <bradleyy_> no usb, does it support the sd card?
Dec 04 01:12:46 <infernix> pohamir: su, or with adb
Dec 04 01:13:04 <pohamir> frikken win
Dec 04 01:13:15 <infernix> best to replace su
Dec 04 01:13:19 <infernix> see sticky threads @ xda
Dec 04 01:13:29 <pohamir> lul it completely disregards my root password from debian
Dec 04 01:13:33 <pohamir> okay
Dec 04 01:14:38 <bradleyy_> so has anyone been looking at the htc bootloader?
Dec 04 01:14:57 <bradleyy_> jtag pins (I know someone has taken one apart)
Dec 04 01:14:59 <bradleyy_> ?
Dec 04 01:35:23 <infernix> its in one of the xda threads, but not thoroughly
Dec 04 01:37:54 <snadge> it just makes me laugh that one of androids "features" is its openness
Dec 04 01:38:19 <snadge> yet you still have to "jailbreak" it, if you want full access
Dec 04 01:38:40 <jbq> snadge: don't confuse android and the G1 - they're totally different beasts.
Dec 04 01:39:16 <snadge> fair enough yeah.. but reading the information about the modded RC30, is enough to just put me off.. at least i know not to update to official RC30
Dec 04 01:39:40 <snadge> i think the best strategy is to just leave it alone.. and install the socks proxy if i want to share net
Dec 04 01:39:48 <luok> but its part of the design of android for the user to not get root access?
Dec 04 01:39:50 <jbq> I agree that it's unfortunate that the only android device available today isn't open enough for some good deep development and experimentation.
Dec 04 01:39:53 <luok> or is that t-mobile's bidding
Dec 04 01:40:19 <jbq> luok: it's part of the design to be possible. It's an easy setting to switch.
Dec 04 01:40:22 <unix_infidel> snadge: what about RC30?
Dec 04 01:40:40 <Decavolt> even so, it's still much more open than the iPhone and many other. "open" != root
Dec 04 01:40:55 <Decavolt> *otherS
Dec 04 01:41:03 <luok> agreed
Dec 04 01:41:18 <snadge> yeah.. i dont want to put the official rc30 on it, until someone figures out a way to root it :P by which stage.. there will no doubt be an RC31
Dec 04 01:41:42 <ismarc1> there should be no reason for the end-user to need root.  Developers, on the other hand, can make good use of root
Dec 04 01:42:19 <unix_infidel> ismarc1: right now, no.  because there isnt a killer app that relies on root.
Dec 04 01:42:35 <unix_infidel> nor would you have seen a demo like RyeBrye's so soon after finding root.
Dec 04 01:42:36 <ismarc1> unix_infidel: the app is designed wrong if it requires true root access
Dec 04 01:42:47 <unix_infidel> ismarc1: not designed incorrectly, just utilizes root functionality.
Dec 04 01:42:59 <snadge> im a linux sysadmin by trade.. and am familiar with software dev.. i just like the idea of being able to have root if i want it
Dec 04 01:42:59 <unix_infidel> which isnt unreasonable.
Dec 04 01:43:10 <unix_infidel> snadge: what about RC30 worries you?
Dec 04 01:43:20 <ismarc1> unix_infidel: for good apps, not unreasonable.  Imagine a malicious app with root capabilities
Dec 04 01:43:22 <snadge> unix_lappy: the official or the modded one?
Dec 04 01:43:28 <jbq> unix_infidel: actually, there are legitimate uses, especially for debugging (accessing your own app's private files from the shell when debugging it is really necessary, and it isn't currently possible without root).
Dec 04 01:43:32 <Decavolt> just imagine the support (and malware) nightmare if root access were easy and there by default.
Dec 04 01:43:36 <Decavolt> it's a horrible idea
Dec 04 01:44:10 <snadge> its something you should be able to turn on with a hack, or key sequence on bootup etc.. so devs know how to do it, if they want to.. and end users wouldn't even know its there
Dec 04 01:44:17 <unix_infidel> jbq: ismarc1 was making the assumption that there are no legitimate reasons for "normal" users need root.
Dec 04 01:44:24 <bradleyy_> All I know is that i want a VPN app, and if I had root I could have had it by now.
Dec 04 01:44:25 <Decavolt> from a developer perspective, absolutely there should be root access. but that should come in the form of a development kit/build and not something anyone should expect to be standard on the phone
Dec 04 01:44:29 <unix_infidel> jbq: for developers, obviously, debugging is a big one.
Dec 04 01:44:59 <snadge> well you should be able to dev with an end user phone.. and not need a dev kit
Dec 04 01:45:15 <unix_infidel> yea, there should be an AndroidFund, where the fund subsidizes Engineering Devices for developers who win something similar to the ADC (but on a larger scale)
Dec 04 01:45:27 <jbq> unix_infidel: there are plenty of legitimate use cases that can't currently be done without root, but I haven't seen any that fundamentally needs root (they just need the framework to expose the appropriate capabilities)
Dec 04 01:45:27 <snadge> it doesnt have to be an easily accessible option from a menu.. but at least documented and understood by those that need to
Dec 04 01:46:04 <Decavolt> that really depends on how deep you're developing. The same is true on any platform. I can't expect to build any and all Cocoa apps for OSX if I don't have any sort of root access or root-level debugging tools.
Dec 04 01:46:09 <bradleyy_> you do realize the "normal users" analogizes to "normal users don't need a car with an opening hood"
Dec 04 01:46:27 <unix_infidel> jbq: heh, we are all aware that Android is undoubtedly nascent and frameworks will come out that will realize killer features fairly quickly.
Dec 04 01:46:35 <unix_infidel> ;-)
Dec 04 01:46:35 <jbq> :)
Dec 04 01:47:22 <snadge> is there a site that lists the changes between 28-29 and 30?
Dec 04 01:47:30 <bradleyy_> so, what you're saying is that I shold be at the mercy of whatever the high priests at google deign to give me?
Dec 04 01:47:55 <bradleyy_> I want a VPN, now, and I'm locked out of a device that I purchased.
Dec 04 01:48:07 <bradleyy_> not cool that I can't change the air cleaner.
Dec 04 01:48:07 <jbq> snadge: not in detail. RC29: mid-severity webkit fix. RC30: 2 major-severity webkit fixes, plus plugging the root hole.
Dec 04 01:48:08 <unix_infidel> google makes the will of the carriers easily accessible...if they didnt you'd never see an android device.
Dec 04 01:48:31 <unix_infidel> it's as simple as that.
Dec 04 01:48:55 <bradleyy_> right, but I'm still in a position where I have to wait for google to (hopefully) release some sort of VPN kit.
Dec 04 01:49:04 <snadge> t-mobile must have paid a hefty premium to be the first.. let them have that, its only a temporary situation
Dec 04 01:49:23 <sparkle> so buy an unlocked phone that's not restricted
Dec 04 01:49:24 <jbq> bradleyy_: part of the answer is "there wasn't enough time". part of it is "you bought that device from T-Mobile, and they're worried about the support costs or bandwidth costs".
Dec 04 01:49:34 <snadge> i shelled out money for a g1, because i support the android project.. i knew that it was going to be crippled
Dec 04 01:50:18 <snadge> i will no doubt bin it as soon as something less crap is released ;)
Dec 04 01:50:22 <Decavolt> As I've said before, it's also a version 1.0. You can't expect it to be perfect, or expect development on it to be perfect. It needs a little time to evolve.
Dec 04 01:50:27 <bradleyy_> i.e.: we know you paid good money for that car, but putting on a different muffler might make you exceed the speed limit.
Dec 04 01:50:39 <Nafai> Anyone have the correct URL for the update site for the Eclipse plug-in?
Dec 04 01:50:46 <ismarc1> bradleyy_: you could always write a java user-space tcp/ip stack and transparent proxy
Dec 04 01:51:04 <unix_infidel> anyone here using the TetherBot app and find it severly limiting for normal use cases?
Dec 04 01:51:23 <jsharkey> define normal  ;)
Dec 04 01:51:31 <bradleyy_> ismarc1: that is the funniest suggestion I've heard in a long time.
Dec 04 01:51:34 <unix_infidel> jsharkey: use your imagination ;-)
Dec 04 01:51:39 <Decavolt> it's not about putting a different muffler on the car, it's about boring out the cylinders, adding a blower and nitrous. That's not standard, and should never be expected off of the showroom floor - i.e. stock
Dec 04 01:51:44 <sparkle> lol
Dec 04 01:52:05 <bradleyy_> dude, VPN is not something that is like adding a blower.
Dec 04 01:52:19 <bradleyy_> VPN should have been supported out of the box
Dec 04 01:52:30 <ismarc1> VPN is like moving from an AM only radio to putting in a cd player
Dec 04 01:52:32 <Decavolt> no, but expecting root access - and using your car analogy - is like heavily modding on the level of adding a blower.
Dec 04 01:52:32 <bradleyy_> it's been working on linux for many, many years
Dec 04 01:52:59 <bradleyy_> with root access YOU CAN add a blower.
Dec 04 01:53:12 <BHSPitMonkey> bradleyy_, just get an iPhone, then!
Dec 04 01:53:13 <bradleyy_> without it, you can't change the radio to a cd player
Dec 04 01:53:13 * BHSPitMonkey ducks
Dec 04 01:53:14 <jbq> ok, we got your point ;-)
Dec 04 01:53:14 <Decavolt> and I'm sure VPN will be supported in future builds. How many major, current linux features where there in v1.0?
Dec 04 01:53:15 <jsharkey> unix_infidel: lol, did firefox+ssh for me fine.  sure its limited, but you can make it work
Dec 04 01:53:57 <unix_infidel> jsharkey: i'm guessing over SSH it's a major hog.
Dec 04 01:54:04 <unix_infidel> jsharkey: i'm talking about Tetherbot.
Dec 04 01:54:15 <Decavolt> I'm not saying it's unreasonable to want root for development. I'm saying it's unreasonable to expect root in a 1.0 device that's only a few months old. This thing is still an infant, give it a little time.
Dec 04 01:54:37 <tmccrary1> Is it possible to access opengl via jni with android?
Dec 04 01:54:43 <jsharkey> unix_infidel: yea, i used ssh with the tunnel thing, but its limiting because you only get one tunnel :/
Dec 04 01:55:01 <bradleyy_> you're saying that because radical changes could be accomplished, it isn't a good idea.
Dec 04 01:55:10 <Nafai> tmccrary1: Dalvik isn't the JVM, so I doubt JNI works
Dec 04 01:55:18 <jbq> tmccrary1: do you mean, from native code?
Dec 04 01:55:21 <ttuttle> Nafai: JNI does work.
Dec 04 01:55:27 <bradleyy_> I'm saying becuase minor, useful, safe changes could be accomplished, it would be good to have it.
Dec 04 01:55:44 <jbq> Nafai: actually, the API between bytecode and native is JNI, even though Dalvik is indeed not a JVM.
Dec 04 01:55:49 <bradleyy_> are there any pointers on JNI support?
Dec 04 01:55:51 <Nafai> Oh nice.
Dec 04 01:55:52 <Decavolt> oh ffs. No bradleyy_ that's not at all what I'm saying. Please re-read my last.
Dec 04 01:56:00 <Nafai> Sorry for assuming wrong :)
Dec 04 01:56:03 <tmccrary1> yes, I'm just curious if there are any gotchas in doing so
Dec 04 01:56:15 <unix_infidel> jsharkey: right, but most people dont want anything other than simple internet access.
Dec 04 01:56:20 <jbq> tmccrary1: BTW, yes, there's a native API to OpenGL. Not supported, of course, but I think it's there.
Dec 04 01:56:47 <tmccrary1> jbq: awesome, thanks for the info
Dec 04 01:57:08 <tmccrary1> the reason I ask it, for our engine port, I want to keep certain components native
Dec 04 01:57:15 <tmccrary1> obviously performance critical sections
Dec 04 01:57:40 <tmccrary1> opengl may not need it
Dec 04 01:57:48 <tmccrary1> but I want to keep my options open
Dec 04 01:59:39 <jbq> tmccrary1: at this point if you want to go the native route, you need to understand that it's a rough route in terms of development tools, and that compatibility of your code (source or binary) with future versions of Android or other devices running the same version of Android isn't guaranteed in any way.
Dec 04 02:00:17 <jbq> (just setting expectations so that you can have the right risk assessment in your business decisions).
Dec 04 02:00:20 <bradleyy_> Decavolt, I'm saying that primarily *because* it's an infant device, we need root access to overcome the stuff the priesthood in their most benificient and wise manner, didn't put in there
Dec 04 02:00:25 <tmccrary1> jbq: understood. I guess thats what updates are for ;)
Dec 04 02:00:31 <bradleyy_> agree to disagree?
Dec 04 02:00:45 <Decavolt> is it impossible for you to root the device? No.
Dec 04 02:01:03 <Decavolt> is it easy? No. But it's new - expect that to come in a future update.
Dec 04 02:01:09 <bradleyy_> is now: I'm on rc30, at least currently impossible
Dec 04 02:01:29 <bradleyy_> BTW, prev comment was tongue-in-cheek
Dec 04 02:02:47 <tmccrary1> jbq: one question, by "not being guaranteed", does that mean that native code could be disabled in the future or just that various things could change (important headers, libraries, etc) without notice or warning? or both? :)
Dec 04 02:03:16 <bradleyy_> my guess is the latter
Dec 04 02:03:18 <jbq> disabled isn't going to happen, the core android relies on it a lot.
Dec 04 02:03:31 <tmccrary1> ok cool
Dec 04 02:03:31 <bradleyy_> exactly
Dec 04 02:03:31 <jbq> but yes, API changes, ABI changes, different CPUs...
Dec 04 02:03:34 <tmccrary1> right
Dec 04 02:04:06 <tmccrary1> well, since at least the G1 device isn't completely open, security restrictions for native code could come in to play
Dec 04 02:04:09 <tmccrary1> thats what I was asking
Dec 04 02:04:23 <tmccrary1> say, no unsigned native code or something like that
Dec 04 02:04:46 <jbq> tmccrary1: the security model is based on linux processes, so there's nothing that is allowed from within the VM that wouldn't be allowed from native code.
Dec 04 02:04:56 <tmccrary1> but I can deal with the other issues, that's not on google or whomever
Dec 04 02:07:17 <jbq> I don't expect to see any work that'll make native code harder, or that'll attempt to disable it, or anything like that.
Dec 04 02:07:41 <jbq> It's just that the android engineering team won't go out of their way to maintain compatibility at that level.
Dec 04 02:08:06 <jbq> (and that right now there's no mechanism to check compatibility of apps that use native code against different CPUs).
Dec 04 02:09:01 <tmccrary1> great. Honestly, I think using the vm is the better idea for the reasons you mentioned (simplify cross platform/arch stuff). It's just with things like physics and some graphics stuff, you can tweak more and get better performance.
Dec 04 02:09:02 <jbq> at some point in the future, things might be clear enough that the android technical management could say "from this point this is supported", but this point is in a distant enough future that no date can be precisely attached to it.
Dec 04 02:09:21 <sparkle> i think i figured out some of the confusion here
Dec 04 02:09:38 <sparkle> the conflation of "open source" and "community development"
Dec 04 02:11:14 <jbq> sparkle: the truth is that right now Google hasn't fully switched itself to being a part of the android open-source community (I'd be blind if I pretended otherwise).
Dec 04 02:11:55 <jbq> That's only for the duration of a (relatively) short transition, though.
Dec 04 02:12:13 * sparkle nods
Dec 04 02:12:31 <sparkle> i work for a cellco - sometimes closely with handset engineering, and i think i have a good idea of where things are going to go
Dec 04 02:12:57 <sparkle> and my head hurts so i'm goin'
Dec 04 02:12:59 <sparkle> ttyl
Dec 04 02:19:11 <florz> by any chance ... is there any (publicly) known way for removing the simlock of the G1 (other than buying an unlock code)?
Dec 04 02:19:39 <jbq> florz: being a good T-Mobile customer and asking them has been reported to work.
Dec 04 02:19:42 <Versed> waiting 90 days and asking tmo
Dec 04 02:20:09 <Leeds> 24 hours, almost to the minute
Dec 04 02:20:19 <Versed> hey Leeds
Dec 04 02:20:48 <Leeds> morning Versed
Dec 04 02:21:21 <florz> jbq: does that apply to customers of T-Mobile Germany, too?
Dec 04 02:21:24 <Versed> evneing sir (well on this part of the planet)
Dec 04 02:21:35 <Versed> I have no idea.
Dec 04 02:21:55 <Versed> was it bought from TMO DE and are you a customer?
Dec 04 02:22:14 <jbq> florz: ah, I don't know. I presume you didn't get your device from T-Mobile Germany, so it might not be so easy in your case.
Dec 04 02:22:36 <florz> TMo DE doesn't sell them (yet), so no, it was bought in the US
Dec 04 02:22:59 <Versed> does a .de tmo sim work in it without a unlock?
Dec 04 02:23:08 <Versed> an
Dec 04 02:24:44 <florz> it seems so, just tried with a sim card from a previously terminated contract, and it seemed to accept it, even though that doesn't give you any network access, obvisouly
Dec 04 02:33:14 <Versed> there are default settings on the phone for the various tm networks.
Dec 04 02:34:07 <Leeds> yeah, that's interesting
Dec 04 02:34:40 <pr4bh> hi, is it possible to get root in rc8? :s
Dec 04 02:34:58 <Leeds> rc8?
Dec 04 02:35:03 <florz> but also, in general, is there anything known about the technical inner workings of the sim lock? like, which components of the hard- and software are enforcing it?
Dec 04 02:35:05 <JesusFreke> not in "official" RC8
Dec 04 02:35:06 <pr4bh> the uk version?
Dec 04 02:35:13 <Leeds> ah
Dec 04 02:35:15 <Versed> goto settings, then wireless controls, then mobile networks, then Access point names, there is a T-Mobile D
Dec 04 02:35:19 <pr4bh> aaah no :s
Dec 04 02:35:33 <Versed> see if it sets your data up
Dec 04 02:41:14 <RyeBrye> anyone tinkering with 2.6.27 yet?
Dec 04 02:49:19 <RyeBrye> In the default config for 2.6.27 the ondemand scaling is turned on now - but the max CPU speed seems set way the hell too low: CONFIG_MSM_CPU_FREQ_ONDEMAND_MAX=384000
Dec 04 02:49:33 <RyeBrye> what's the max speed? 500Mhz?
Dec 04 02:49:45 <Leeds> is that 384 the current dialed-down speed>?
Dec 04 02:50:54 <RyeBrye> I don't think it currently dials down speed at all
Dec 04 02:51:31 <unix_infidel> RyeBrye: it's clocked down at the hardware level iirc.
Dec 04 02:51:37 <jbq> Pre-production G1s weren't really stable at speeds much higher than that.
Dec 04 02:51:39 <snadge> how do i send and alt using connectbot?
Dec 04 02:51:52 <RyeBrye> jbq - but aren't the production ones 528 Mhz?
Dec 04 02:52:05 <jbq> RyeBrye: no, I think they're 82-245-384.
Dec 04 02:52:05 <unix_infidel> somewhere from 528.
Dec 04 02:52:50 <RyeBrye> jbq - oh, they are? I thought all the marketing stuff I read said the CPU was 528 MHz
Dec 04 02:52:55 <jbq> The chip is rated for 528 only if it has appropriate cooling.
Dec 04 02:53:29 <RyeBrye> Ahhh... My pocket is cool
Dec 04 02:53:42 <jbq> RyeBrye: I don't think that T-Mobile or HTC ever said that'd it'd be 528. They said it was a 7201A, and someone found that the max clock on the 7201A is 528 and assumed that the G1 was clocked that high.
Dec 04 02:53:48 <vol> not cool enough it seems : (
Dec 04 02:54:02 <Leeds> my chin gets quite warm
Dec 04 02:54:23 <snadge> how do i switch between say ssh and browser?
Dec 04 02:54:30 <jbq> Leeds: yeah, the CPU is there (along with the radio amplifiers, the power regulator...)
Dec 04 02:54:33 <unix_infidel> I'd be surprised if they didnt try and squeeze the last little mHz out of the thing.
Dec 04 02:54:50 <unix_infidel> i think it was Dan who was in here saying after about 384 they didnt see any real pre-production benefits.
Dec 04 02:54:57 <RyeBrye> Wai
Dec 04 02:54:58 <unix_infidel> (Bornstein)
Dec 04 02:54:58 <Leeds> unix_infidel: battery life is more important than CPU speed
Dec 04 02:55:02 <RyeBrye> When did white G1's become available?
Dec 04 02:55:09 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: last week iirc
Dec 04 02:55:19 <RyeBrye> I should have waited :(
Dec 04 02:55:22 * RyeBrye sheds a tear
Dec 04 02:55:29 <bmk789> ill buy your black one ;)
Dec 04 02:55:33 <Leeds> nasty ipod-ish things
Dec 04 02:55:49 <unix_infidel> white isnt exactly pretty.
Dec 04 02:55:59 <RyeBrye> bmk789 - if you got a white one, I'd swap the black one.
Dec 04 02:56:11 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=white+g1+released
Dec 04 02:56:32 <infobot> I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power
Dec 04 02:56:37 <sparkle> i wanted purple camo
Dec 04 02:56:38 <unix_infidel> wow, the google gods must've just turned on the tubes.
Dec 04 02:56:45 <unix_infidel> heh.
Dec 04 02:57:18 <RyeBrye> Yeah, seriously - google influx
Dec 04 02:58:10 <RyeBrye> jbq - so the cpu freq is set in the software? So I could theoretically raise my ondemand up to 528 and burn a hole in my leg?
Dec 04 02:58:11 <jsharkey> ah, they will prolly ping out soon then
Dec 04 02:59:31 <unix_infidel> nice.  http://gizmodo.com/5101708/aussies-to-get-the-next-android-handset-in-the-form-of-the-kogan-agora-pro
Dec 04 02:59:37 <jbq_> RyeBrye: it's set in software. I don't know if you'd go as far as damaging the hardware, but it might become less stable. Or not. One thing is sure, it's that your battery life will take a hit.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 04 02:59:57 2008