**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 04 02:59:57 2008
Dec 04 03:00:17 <TiberiumX> I like the slide-out keyboard style, but that one probably does have a 3.5mm headphone jack.
Dec 04 03:00:32 <unix_infidel> TiberiumX: yup, looks like stereo 3.5 there.
Dec 04 03:01:15 <Versed> nice, that supports at&t's and rogers 3g.
Dec 04 03:01:37 <RyeBrye> Well... when I was playing with ondemand last time - it was really sluggish and it was underclocking me down to 82 Mhz while the phone was booting - so I don't know if it would ever even hit 528Mhz unless it got really excited
Dec 04 03:01:38 <TiberiumX> I wonder how developers will be able to cope with different screen sizes.  That one's 320x240.
Dec 04 03:01:45 * RyeBrye recompiles his kernel
Dec 04 03:02:29 <unix_infidel> RyeBrye: did you ever hear from someone at google on whether there was a multitouch framework coming since there's hints of multitouch capable capacitive screens?
Dec 04 03:02:30 <Leeds> RyeBrye: boot into performance, set to ondemand at the end of booting?
Dec 04 03:02:37 <unix_infidel> (floating around)
Dec 04 03:03:17 <unix_infidel> Leeds: not exactly viable, would like to see a proper profiler, that takes battery life into account, if i want to squeeze a couple quick things out of 10% battery, i could care less about speed.
Dec 04 03:03:23 <RyeBrye> unix_infidel - nope, I know nothing.
Dec 04 03:03:42 <unix_infidel> RyeBrye: no one really "knows" anything ;-)
Dec 04 03:03:43 <Leeds> unix_infidel: so that's either ondemand or userspace-controlled
Dec 04 03:04:20 <RyeBrye> Is the wlan stuff open source now? I don't think I can trick the 2.6.25 wlan.ko to work on the 2.6.27 kernel can I?
Dec 04 03:05:25 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: afaik its not gonna be
Dec 04 03:05:29 <G94B> Guys, I just got the T-Mobile G1 and when I type in the browser a google search box is coming up when I want to write a blog entry... is there a way to override the google search box or does the browser just not recognize the editor area i'm touching?
Dec 04 03:05:45 <Leeds> unix_infidel: and the next headline in my RSS reader, after the kogan thing: "UN Plans Asteroid Response Framework"
Dec 04 03:05:56 <Leeds> G94B: make sure you're selecting the text box
Dec 04 03:06:01 <RyeBrye> I thought TI said they were going to opensource their drivers as part of their OHA warm fuzzies
Dec 04 03:06:14 <G94B> It's a window but when I touch it only the first line is highlighted?
Dec 04 03:06:19 <unix_infidel> Leeds: you could just turn "Star Wars" the other way ;-)
Dec 04 03:06:27 <G94B> I'm trying to make an entry on Blogger
Dec 04 03:06:43 <Leeds> a window?
Dec 04 03:06:51 <G94B> I can fill in the title box...
Dec 04 03:07:21 <G94B> but the area where you type the body of the blog entry is only being selected as the first line
Dec 04 03:07:39 <G94B> when i press a key, the google search box pops up
Dec 04 03:08:06 <Leeds> dunno then
Dec 04 03:08:25 <G94B> hmm, puts a damper on using google's blogger service
Dec 04 03:08:29 <snadge> either that.. or our gps is just messing with us
Dec 04 03:08:36 <G94B> I can make blank blog entries though
Dec 04 03:08:46 <G94B> well, with titles
Dec 04 03:08:47 <G94B> :-)
Dec 04 03:09:03 <Disconnect> try turning off optimize for this display
Dec 04 03:09:26 <G94B> how do you toggle that?
Dec 04 03:09:35 <Disconnect> settings
Dec 04 03:10:01 <G94B> ok
Dec 04 03:10:37 <RyeBrye> "The Android operating system means the handset can capture and play music, photos and video, surf the web, play games, navigate, and organise your life with extremely powerful applications." - Wait so those Kogan Agora people will have a video recorder?
Dec 04 03:10:55 <Disconnect> no the community will fix it
Dec 04 03:10:57 <RyeBrye> And it can "capture and play music"? Does it come with a musical lasso
Dec 04 03:10:58 <RyeBrye> ?
Dec 04 03:11:19 <G94B> i don't see it under settings
Dec 04 03:11:53 <TiberiumX> I see a lot of commented out code concerning recording video.  I think it's coming when they get it finished.
Dec 04 03:12:20 <unix_infidel> TiberiumX: how do you think we found the multi-touch stuff/
Dec 04 03:12:23 <unix_infidel> ;-)
Dec 04 03:12:44 <JesusFreke> wow. the kogan looks nice. definitely beats the G1 in the looks department
Dec 04 03:12:46 <TiberiumX> There is commented out multitouch code?  Damn, I thought that was someone just screwing around with a driver or something.
Dec 04 03:12:58 <Leeds> G94B: "Auto-fit pages"
Dec 04 03:13:03 <unix_infidel> JesusFreke: it doesnt jive imho.
Dec 04 03:13:16 <JesusFreke> define jive :D
Dec 04 03:13:46 <unix_infidel> compare WM6.5 on the HTC Touch HD or Touch Pro with Android default on those devices or the Agora Pro.
Dec 04 03:14:02 <G94B> ah, ok
Dec 04 03:14:37 <unix_infidel> they clearly spend a lot of time with screenshots and demos' and making things stylistically jive rather than having decent design, whereas Android and the iPhone are all about decent user experience design.
Dec 04 03:14:46 <unix_infidel> UX & Design*
Dec 04 03:14:51 <G94B> hmm, no dice, let me try restarting the browser
Dec 04 03:18:16 <RyeBrye> TiberiumX - yeah, it's commented out in the driver
Dec 04 03:18:40 <RyeBrye> And interestingly enough, another touchscreen driver was checked into the git 2.6.27 branch and it's got multitouch stuff in it as well
Dec 04 03:18:52 <RyeBrye> (not for the synaptics screen, but for some Elan screen)
Dec 04 03:19:53 <RyeBrye> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=blob;f=drivers/input/touchscreen/elan8232_i2c.c;h=7c07d8431621cf58ce4d9a922588ed5002fef9e4;hb=c2ae3738cf027412b6be46a43b19fee161b87ce7
Dec 04 03:19:56 <unix_infidel> RyeBrye: i'm guessing yours is elan?
Dec 04 03:20:35 * unix_infidel would also guess it's impossible to tell without some voodoo.
Dec 04 03:21:18 <RyeBrye> I used the synaptics driver they had before - I assume that elan thing is for some future device?
Dec 04 03:24:07 <G94B> hmm, i can't get it to work
Dec 04 03:24:42 <G94B> it just doesn't recognize the window as a place for entering text
Dec 04 03:25:02 <unix_infidel> RyeBrye: hmm, apparently their high end touch screens.
Dec 04 03:25:18 <G94B> what's weird is that i can only highlight the window after i highlight another text field
Dec 04 03:25:42 <unix_infidel> http://www.elanhomesystems.com/products.asp
Dec 04 03:27:29 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I was looking to find that model
Dec 04 03:27:46 <Damm> here's a bad question, how low is the chance of finding DREAIMG.NBH?
Dec 04 03:28:07 <RyeBrye> Depends. Do you speak Korean?
Dec 04 03:28:26 <Damm> nope
Dec 04 03:29:01 <Leeds> G94B: doesn't help if you select another field then use the ball to scroll to the right one?
Dec 04 03:29:03 <RyeBrye> There are people working on cracking the bootloader for the G1 - that'd be the best bet
Dec 04 03:29:47 <Damm> i thought you couldn't write the boot loader
Dec 04 03:29:56 <Damm> without DREAIMG.NBH
Dec 04 03:31:18 <pr4bh> guys, i know you do awesome job but just wondering if anyone is working on getting root on official RC8? :(
Dec 04 03:31:51 <TiberiumX> What is DREAIMG.NBH?
Dec 04 03:31:56 <Disconnect> pr4bh: no, nobody anywhere is working on it
Dec 04 03:32:17 <Damm> TiberiumX, basically a full ROM
Dec 04 03:32:25 <Damm> one way to go back to RC19 for example
Dec 04 03:33:18 <luok> eesh do you really have to type URL to set the home page in android browser?
Dec 04 03:33:22 <TiberiumX> How would you flash that?
Dec 04 03:33:31 <Damm> stick it on the SD card and loadup in boot loader mode
Dec 04 03:33:38 <Damm> volume down key prolly to load it
Dec 04 03:33:58 <G94B> no, it hops over the window
Dec 04 03:34:34 <RyeBrye> Damm - the DREAIMG.NBH wouldn't necessarily be RC19. I imagine the factory has them for each RC or whatnot... an RC30 DREAIMG.NBH isn't very exciting - but yes, an < RC30 would be cool if it ever leaked
Dec 04 03:35:01 <Damm> RyeBrye, totally... i'm a bit suprised it hasn't
Dec 04 03:35:22 <RyeBrye> maybe it has, but the person who leaked it was shot by the google choppers
Dec 04 03:35:34 <Disconnect> i'm gonna lmao if the rc30 one leaks
Dec 04 03:36:00 <RyeBrye> they have thousands of robots that spend their idle time reading blogs, but are ready at a moments notice to go into action
Dec 04 03:37:49 <RyeBrye> If those agora phones were cheaper, I'd buy one for my wife and for a second dev phone
Dec 04 03:38:06 <RyeBrye> I wonder if they ship with a version that lets you get root on them
Dec 04 03:39:37 <RyeBrye> although 399 Australian dollars = 258.5919 U.S. dollars
Dec 04 03:39:45 <RyeBrye> so I guess that's not too bad
Dec 04 03:40:48 <Damm> and unfortunately a rom dump is fairly useless without the headers to make the phone trust it.
Dec 04 03:41:07 <RyeBrye> which rom dump? the one from the bootloader?
Dec 04 03:44:27 <Damm> yup
Dec 04 03:44:53 <Damm> i wonder if anyone tried mtty on the G1
Dec 04 03:47:07 <Lieutenant> hey
Dec 04 03:47:14 <Lieutenant> got a question
Dec 04 03:47:26 <Lieutenant> is there a media server app or something out?
Dec 04 03:47:35 <Lieutenant> where i can watch movies from my comptuer on my phone?
Dec 04 03:47:37 <Leeds> Lieutenant: have you see five?
Dec 04 03:47:43 <Lieutenant> no.
Dec 04 03:47:59 <offby1`> Lieutenant: there's a YouTube app, but that's probably not what you meant
Dec 04 03:48:01 <Leeds> http://code.google.com/p/android-five/
Dec 04 03:48:22 <JesusFreke> five is great :)
Dec 04 03:48:29 <Leeds> doesn't do video
Dec 04 03:48:32 <Lieutenant> i meant watch videos/listen to music/view pics that were on my computer via wifi or edge or whatever.
Dec 04 03:48:59 <Lieutenant> like a media server
Dec 04 03:49:08 <Leeds> that's what five is - except it isn't, yet
Dec 04 03:49:14 <Lieutenant> oh.
Dec 04 03:49:15 <Lieutenant> gotcha
Dec 04 03:49:18 <JesusFreke> five is only for audio
Dec 04 03:49:27 <Lieutenant> i'll check it out when it has videos support
Dec 04 03:49:29 <JesusFreke> I don't know of any plans for pictures/video
Dec 04 03:49:45 <Lieutenant> oh
Dec 04 03:49:45 <Leeds> "This implementation targets the music application, however the system could and will be extended to support other content such as video and images."
Dec 04 03:49:46 <Lieutenant> damn
Dec 04 03:49:52 <JesusFreke> ah :)
Dec 04 03:50:06 <Lieutenant> i hope they do video though. that will be badass
Dec 04 03:50:07 <Lieutenant> wait
Dec 04 03:50:08 <JesusFreke> lieutentant, in the meantime, you might try orb
Dec 04 03:50:16 <JesusFreke> I'm not positive if it does video though
Dec 04 03:50:21 <Lieutenant> wasn't there a program where u can view webcam feeds n stuff?
Dec 04 03:50:27 <Lieutenant> yeah i think it was orb
Dec 04 03:50:58 <Mony> i have a question too. is there any "real working" jabber client with tls support? meebo is disconnecting me all the time :/
Dec 04 03:50:59 <Lieutenant> but i dont wanna make an orb account
Dec 04 03:51:11 <Lieutenant> ryebrye, u still here?
Dec 04 03:51:32 <G94B> ok, it looks like you have to use go.blogger.com to create posts on blogger from a mobile device
Dec 04 03:51:57 <Damm> Mony, for google talk? or?
Dec 04 03:52:11 <Leeds> google talk seems to work fine with the built-in app
Dec 04 03:52:12 <Mony> not google talk
Dec 04 03:52:17 <Damm> Mony, because there's Maverick... if they released their code it could easily go far
Dec 04 03:52:22 <Mony> other jabber server :)
Dec 04 03:52:31 <Damm> ah
Dec 04 03:52:39 <Damm> the built in IM client blows
Dec 04 03:53:09 <Damm> RyeBrye, http://wp.buzzdev.net/tag/rom ... kinda referring to the old winmo 'd2s' ability with mtty
Dec 04 03:53:12 <Mony> i was searching for maverick's source too, but i found out that it's not open source :/
Dec 04 03:53:13 <Lieutenant> theres only 1 transition available?
Dec 04 03:53:16 <Damm> would be interesting if you could get it.
Dec 04 03:53:18 <Lieutenant> sliding, and thats it?
Dec 04 03:53:32 <Damm> Mony, nope, not sure why since they prolly based their code on GPLv2 code
Dec 04 03:53:37 <Damm> we should sue em for their code
Dec 04 03:56:27 <Mony> there is also another app with jabber support (im+) but it is not free and it does not support tls ?!
Dec 04 03:56:52 <Mony> i
Dec 04 03:57:06 <Lieutenant> is there gonna be a black market made specifically for root apps?
Dec 04 03:57:56 <Mony> "black market".. lol that sounds like there will be drugs or something :D
Dec 04 03:59:12 <Lieutenant> lol
Dec 04 03:59:17 <Lieutenant> its still a pretty slick name
Dec 04 03:59:27 <Lieutenant> like pineapple <-- that made me laugh
Dec 04 03:59:32 <Lieutenant> or pwnapple, whatever it was
Dec 04 03:59:33 <JesusFreke> psst. over here. I have the wifi tethering you need
Dec 04 03:59:42 * JesusFreke looks shady
Dec 04 03:59:48 <Lieutenant> haha.
Dec 04 03:59:50 <Mony> lmao :D
Dec 04 03:59:56 <Lieutenant> dolla fitty. dolla fitty.
Dec 04 04:00:01 <TiberiumX> Haha
Dec 04 04:00:03 <Lieutenant> knawm' sayin?
Dec 04 04:00:09 <saurik> Lieutenant: people are currently able to just put applications that require root into the real market (there are apparently a few in there already)
Dec 04 04:00:15 <saurik> so at least for now there's no point ;P
Dec 04 04:00:23 <JesusFreke> y'got tha righ
Dec 04 04:00:24 <Lieutenant> true.
Dec 04 04:00:54 <TiberiumX> Yeah, but how will they deal with all the people giving them one star while asking "what's root?"
Dec 04 04:01:11 <Lieutenant> yeah thats why black market will be a good idea imo.
Dec 04 04:01:49 <JesusFreke> Tib, the authors will just have to take counseling for feelings of rejection
Dec 04 04:01:55 <JesusFreke> :)
Dec 04 04:02:46 <Lieutenant> yeah like that nuuneoi dude everyone hated on
Dec 04 04:02:52 <Lieutenant> the droidsans dude
Dec 04 04:03:42 <Lieutenant> hmm
Dec 04 04:03:50 <Lieutenant> i dont know how good you guys are at making games....
Dec 04 04:03:51 <offby1`> The Droid abides.
Dec 04 04:03:57 <Lieutenant> but here is one i thought of just now
Dec 04 04:04:00 <Lieutenant> and it might be fun
Dec 04 04:04:20 <TiberiumX> Anyone know off the top of their head how the Music app's playlist screen lets you move rows around to reorder stuff?  (Before I go hunting through the source for it)
Dec 04 04:04:41 <Lieutenant> um u play a song.
Dec 04 04:04:49 <Lieutenant> then u hit the little playlist lookin button in the top right corner
Dec 04 04:04:53 <Lieutenant> and then u can drag them around
Dec 04 04:05:01 <Lieutenant> back to my game idea:
Dec 04 04:05:25 <TiberiumX> Haha, I mean what features they used to code it.  Nevermind.
Dec 04 04:06:18 <JesusFreke> whoa. I didn't know you could do that. lol
Dec 04 04:06:53 <JesusFreke> I need to implement something like that for five's playlist screen :)
Dec 04 04:06:58 <wastrel> code
Dec 04 04:07:07 <TiberiumX> I wanted something like that in my podcast app.
Dec 04 04:07:26 <TiberiumX> It's not safe to try and switch podcasts while driving. :)
Dec 04 04:07:31 <Lieutenant> so u have a picture of a virtual G1 phone on your screen all futureistic looking with all these flashy lights n little visual futuristc lighting glitches. well have the phone turn and rotate n stuff and you have to follow what the virtual phone is doing, like if it tilts upwards, u tilt your phone upwards as quick as possible, then it turns around, and does all these flips n stuff and u just have to keep up. (kidna like simo
Dec 04 04:07:37 <Lieutenant> did it cut off? ^^^^^
Dec 04 04:08:10 <TiberiumX> Yes.  kidna like simo, I hear.
Dec 04 04:08:26 <JesusFreke> simo's all the rage these days
Dec 04 04:08:36 <Lieutenant> .....like simon says in a way)...  what do u think? it sounds good in my mind."
Dec 04 04:08:39 <TiberiumX> G1 will suck until it gets simo.
Dec 04 04:08:44 <Lieutenant> yeah!
Dec 04 04:08:48 <Lieutenant> amen
Dec 04 04:09:41 <TiberiumX> So how long you think it'll take you to code it, Lieutenant?
Dec 04 04:09:49 <Lieutenant> WTF
Dec 04 04:09:50 <Lieutenant> lol
Dec 04 04:09:55 <Lieutenant> i can't even code a "hello world"
Dec 04 04:10:29 <Mony> Lieutenant, i really hate java too
Dec 04 04:10:30 <Mony> :D
Dec 04 04:10:33 <JesusFreke> well you better get to work :D
Dec 04 04:10:34 <Lieutenant> i was just throwin it out there... ya' know, just to be inspirational.
Dec 04 04:10:41 <Lieutenant> givin ideas out
Dec 04 04:12:06 <Leeds> so I was at a 'networking event' last night for IT/digital media type people... chatting to a guy I know, one of the founders of an online company... they have an iPhone app, which is a pretty simple front-end to their web service
Dec 04 04:12:28 <Leeds> he was very interested in getting an Android version
Dec 04 04:12:55 <TiberiumX> Good.  More apps the better.  Unless it's a 10th tip calculator.
Dec 04 04:12:59 <Leeds> nope
Dec 04 04:13:17 <Leeds> more to the point, he was interested in paying for an Android version... so I think it's time I learned some Java :-)
Dec 04 04:13:33 <JesusFreke> money is a good motivator :)
Dec 04 04:14:00 <TiberiumX> What sort of service is it?
Dec 04 04:14:17 <Leeds> we didn't formally discuss anything, but it's nice to think there's already a market for app development :-)
Dec 04 04:15:26 <marix> hey guys
Dec 04 04:15:53 <Disconnect> we're talking about that at work also. nobody thought it was a good idea 2nd quarter when i said "we need an actual mobile site" .. but now they want iphone/android apps (which -could- be based off that mobile site, but we didn't make one..)
Dec 04 04:15:58 <Leeds> it's an online hosted helpdesk
Dec 04 04:16:05 <Lieutenant> well last night i was registering for college classes, and i saw my old 6th grade teacher there, (she's the mom of a friend of mine but the friend wasn't there) so my teacher said "hi" to me, and i was like who is this person? then after like 4 seconds of an odd silence, i recognized her and was like "ohh, its been a long time" so i had thought she knew who i was. but today i asked the girl if her mom talked to her about me,
Dec 04 04:16:12 <Lieutenant> her mom talked to her about me, and she was like "yea, my mom said she saw a random kid she used to teach and said hi" so she didn't really know me. :( i feel sad.
Dec 04 04:16:17 <Lieutenant> well thats my life story.
Dec 04 04:16:27 <snadge> how do i send alt+key with connectbot?
Dec 04 04:16:29 <Lieutenant> how's ur day been so far?
Dec 04 04:17:03 <Leeds> Lieutenant: erm, what?
Dec 04 04:17:08 <marix> not as emo filled as yours thats for sure...
Dec 04 04:17:42 <snadge> ctrl is tap on trackball, esc is double tap.. alt is .. ?
Dec 04 04:17:43 <TiberiumX> Haha
Dec 04 04:18:09 <TiberiumX> My days haven't been emo enough lately either.
Dec 04 04:18:18 <snadge> logically it would be alt but its not :P
Dec 04 04:18:56 <TiberiumX> How do you send esc with connectbot?  I got stuck in insert mode in vim yesterday.
Dec 04 04:19:21 <snadge> press trackball twice
Dec 04 04:19:41 <Lieutenant> lol
Dec 04 04:20:12 <TiberiumX> Thanks
Dec 04 04:20:50 <Lieutenant> why did google hide all these damn features?
Dec 04 04:20:55 <Lieutenant> like transitions...
Dec 04 04:21:21 <marix> part of their product growth plan
Dec 04 04:21:26 <TiberiumX> Weren't finished with them?
Dec 04 04:21:26 <snadge> theres a little keyboard  demo when u first run connectbot, that i cant figure out how to bring back
Dec 04 04:21:37 <Leeds> power questions?
Dec 04 04:21:37 <Lieutenant> well they seem finished to me.
Dec 04 04:21:46 <marix> same reason why the iphone doesn't have copy paste,  because they need you to buy the next version.
Dec 04 04:22:21 <Lieutenant> i thought google was different :(
Dec 04 04:22:29 <infernix> crap. anyone else getting data corruption when copying stuff through USB mount?
Dec 04 04:22:33 <TiberiumX> I'd point out that the same software runs on all versions of the phone, but they did try to charge me for updates to my touch.  Assholes.
Dec 04 04:22:57 <marix> lieutenant,  i was just kidding,  cheer up kiddo,  that friends mom/teacher really wanted to fuck. :)
Dec 04 04:22:58 <infernix> im mounting, copying 55mb files, umounting, then remounting, and when i md5sum the files the sum is different
Dec 04 04:23:11 <infernix> eg corruption while copying :|
Dec 04 04:23:48 <TiberiumX> That's strange.  I don't believe I've gotten corruption on anythign I've ever copied in.
Dec 04 04:23:48 <Lieutenant> lol i know she did.
Dec 04 04:24:46 <marix> anyone watching the ultimate fighter?
Dec 04 04:25:14 <sparkle> those transition effects...i was so glad when i discovered them
Dec 04 04:25:27 <TiberiumX> What are these transition effects?
Dec 04 04:25:32 <sparkle> because i could turn the rest of them OFF
Dec 04 04:25:49 * infernix tries a different usb cable
Dec 04 04:26:10 <sparkle> make sure it's a usb 2.0 port
Dec 04 04:26:19 <sparkle> that tripped me up for a while
Dec 04 04:26:24 <marix> no hub business either
Dec 04 04:26:29 <Leeds> aren't you using the cable which came with it?
Dec 04 04:27:02 <TiberiumX> The thing that "DroidSans Tweak T..." is supposed to enable?
Dec 04 04:27:12 <infernix> i had an old usb cable. anyway, new usb cable, same data corruption
Dec 04 04:27:34 <infernix> board is an intel 965 so theres nothing wrong with the usb. besides, no data corruption on any of my other usb devices (or i'd have known)
Dec 04 04:27:45 <luok> have you tried the flash card in other readers
Dec 04 04:27:48 <TiberiumX> How are you unmounting/remounting?
Dec 04 04:28:09 <infernix> type vfat (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,uid=1000,gid=1000,umask=007,user=infernix)
Dec 04 04:28:14 <infernix> fstab entry
Dec 04 04:28:22 <infernix> just like any other usb device
Dec 04 04:28:29 * infernix tries to find usb cardreader
Dec 04 04:28:40 <TiberiumX> Is your SD card maybe failing?
Dec 04 04:29:20 <infernix> it might be, 4GB class 6 i think, not the newest
Dec 04 04:29:42 <TiberiumX> Well, you could see if you get corruption on the 1GB that it came with.
Dec 04 04:30:00 <Lieutenant> sparkle found the transition effects?
Dec 04 04:30:30 <JesusFreke> I've gotten corruption a few times as well
Dec 04 04:30:53 <JesusFreke> my G1's seems particularly sensitive to RF interference
Dec 04 04:31:12 <marix> what are these transition effect you speak of
Dec 04 04:31:42 <JesusFreke> if I plug in my BT dongle into my computer near where the USB cable is (like into the same set of ports), it really screws up my usb connection to the G1
Dec 04 04:32:18 <JesusFreke> I can get an adb shell for a few seconds, then it goes back to command line and I can't connect with adb at all until I take out/put in the usb cable
Dec 04 04:32:54 <JesusFreke> and just in general, I've got a corrupted file every once in a while when copying via adb push or copying when the sdcard is mounted on my computer
Dec 04 04:33:35 <JesusFreke> make sure you're plugging directly into the computer, and use the shortest cable you have. Other than that.. just keep trying I guess
Dec 04 04:33:51 <infernix> JesusFreke: ok so you just copy data to the sd with a card reader? especially recovery.img and friends?
Dec 04 04:33:56 <Damm> that's fucking weird.
Dec 04 04:34:03 <marix> jesusfreke,  is there any location where i could find a change log for v1.1 and v1.2 of the modified rc30?
Dec 04 04:34:21 <marix> and perhaps a roadmap for next update?
Dec 04 04:34:33 <infernix> ok, confirmed that sdhc card is fine
Dec 04 04:34:33 <JesusFreke> well, I didn't have a card reader at the time. It usually worked on the 2nd try
Dec 04 04:34:36 <Damm> marix, you ask JF fr more then Google does?
Dec 04 04:34:37 <Damm> damn
Dec 04 04:34:41 <Damm> for*
Dec 04 04:35:08 <JesusFreke> here are the contents of my todo list for v1.3 :)
Dec 04 04:35:20 <JesusFreke> (it may not be totally up to date.. have looked at it in a few days)
Dec 04 04:35:24 <marix> i don't want him to go out and make it,  but if he already has one...
Dec 04 04:35:28 <JesusFreke> add "using test keys" in recovery image
Dec 04 04:35:28 <JesusFreke> prevent the common error in recovery image
Dec 04 04:35:28 <JesusFreke> strip binaries in xbin, add more binaries/modules
Dec 04 04:35:28 <JesusFreke> modules/binaries/scripts for BT tethering
Dec 04 04:35:28 <JesusFreke> modules/binaries/scripts for ad-hoc wifi tethering
Dec 04 04:35:29 <JesusFreke> create a link for cp, grep, wget
Dec 04 04:35:31 <JesusFreke> add koush's superuser app
Dec 04 04:35:33 <JesusFreke> add a ro.modversion property
Dec 04 04:35:35 <JesusFreke> fix permissions in xbin
Dec 04 04:35:38 <JesusFreke> woo. didn't kick me for spamming
Dec 04 04:35:54 <infernix> what about using yaffs instead of vfat on the sd card?
Dec 04 04:36:31 <JesusFreke> no clue infernix :). give it a shot and let me know if it works :D
Dec 04 04:36:41 <infernix> my RC28 is on its way
Dec 04 04:36:45 <infernix> i'll soon join :)
Dec 04 04:36:56 <JesusFreke> ah :)
Dec 04 04:37:02 <marix> huh?
Dec 04 04:37:25 <JesusFreke> **haven't looked at it in a few days (from a few comments ago)
Dec 04 04:38:05 <infernix> yep, definite file corruption when copying only 55mb of data
Dec 04 04:38:31 <infernix> bt is off, only thing i can think of is my wireless mouse or my Wii which is in standby
Dec 04 04:39:00 <JesusFreke> I have no idea if this will help, but try placing the phone as near to the usb port as you can and coiling the cord
Dec 04 04:39:02 <infernix> will try it on my laptop later
Dec 04 04:39:20 <JesusFreke> I figure it might be less of an RF antenna that way. *shrug*
Dec 04 04:39:41 <JesusFreke> might be even more of one.. lol
Dec 04 04:39:51 <marix> throw it in a copper mesh box
Dec 04 04:40:09 <JesusFreke> or wrap some aluminum foil around it? :D
Dec 04 04:40:28 * JesusFreke puts an aluminum foil hat on his G1
Dec 04 04:41:53 <infernix> negative
Dec 04 04:41:58 <infernix> different md5sum every time i copy
Dec 04 04:42:05 * JesusFreke sighs
Dec 04 04:42:23 <JesusFreke> no clue then. heh
Dec 04 04:42:30 <infernix> now the kicker is, is this a problem in the usb mount app on the phone
Dec 04 04:42:34 <infernix> or is the hardware broken
Dec 04 04:42:46 <infernix> you said it occurs with adb too?
Dec 04 04:42:46 <TiberiumX> Consistet md5sum when you run it multiple times on the same copy?
Dec 04 04:42:54 <infernix> TiberiumX: different md5sum each time
Dec 04 04:42:56 <JesusFreke> yeah, it does with mine, infernix
Dec 04 04:43:25 <JesusFreke> adb push gets corrupted sometimes (probably more often even)
Dec 04 04:43:47 <infernix> its a simple routine. mount android; cp 50mb.bin android/; umount android; mount android; md5sum 50mb.bin android/50mb.bin; umount android;
Dec 04 04:44:14 <infernix> i suggest you test it if you want to listen to uncorrupted mp3s :)
Dec 04 04:44:34 <infernix> this might also very well explain why i have been trying for hours and hours to get my encoded video to play
Dec 04 04:44:43 <infernix> it being larger it must've corrupted even more
Dec 04 04:44:53 <JesusFreke> yeah, more than likely
Dec 04 04:45:10 <JesusFreke> you might try throwing the file on a web server with a .xxx extension, and downloading it on the G1
Dec 04 04:45:34 <TiberiumX> There is an FTP application out now.
Dec 04 04:45:39 <TiberiumX> Try that
Dec 04 04:55:09 <mrios> Hi everyone, I'm trying to run my first Android app but I'm having problems trying to bind an event to a button. Here's the code of the activity, the runtime error occurs in line 48. Do you see what's happening?
Dec 04 04:56:05 <mrios> Code: http://slexy.org/view/s20l6ynGIt
Dec 04 04:57:29 <TiberiumX> What exception does it throw?
Dec 04 04:59:53 <mrios> TiberiumX I'm trying to look for that in the debugger: The only exception I see is: "InvocationTargetException
Dec 04 05:22:00 <TiberiumX> Why do Cursors no longer support updating the database contents?  Google keeps teasing me with cool stuff in their own applications, that they promptly ripped out for SDK 1.0.
Dec 04 05:27:47 <jbq> TiberiumX: It actually created a lot of unexpected behaviors in content providers: it was far from obvious that query() was actually a read-write APIs.
Dec 04 05:30:42 <jbq> Also, they made it annoyingly hard to implement fine-grained update-time security in content providers, because the way cursors got data was different from what content providers get.
Dec 04 05:31:03 <tripps> one really annoying behavior on my G1 is when  you switch back to the browser application it reloads the current page. is this a feature or bug?
Dec 04 05:31:25 <jbq> Finally, you couldn't insert in a cursor, so the API was somewhat incomplete since you couldn't even do with a cursor everything you could do with a straight provider.
Dec 04 05:31:40 <jbq> tripps: let's call that an unfortunate feature ;-)
Dec 04 05:32:45 <tripps> jbq, any particular reason for it? it's especially insidious as it's an expensive operation given the b/w and operating environment of the device it would seem
Dec 04 05:34:42 <jbq> I don't remember. Might just have been the more logical action in the regular Android application lifecycle.
Dec 04 05:35:58 <TiberiumX> I see.  So I guess there is no intention of bringing that back in the future?
Dec 04 05:36:16 <tripps> jbq, any plans to modify this behavior? or at least have a configuration setting for it?
Dec 04 05:36:19 <jbq> TiberiumX: definitely not. We're trying to remove it from the implementation entirely.
Dec 04 05:36:55 <jbq> tripps: I don't know. I've got less and less visibility into the browser team as I've moved to another team.
Dec 04 05:36:58 <TiberiumX> So what's with the transition effects that are now enabled by "DroidSans Tweak Tools"?  Does that cause problems with some applications?
Dec 04 05:37:30 <jbq> Yeah, transitions aren't quite working 100%.
Dec 04 05:37:42 <tripps> jbq, cool. perhaps I'll submit something on the site and see what happens.
Dec 04 05:38:03 <TiberiumX> Haven't run into anything yet, but I haven't played around with it much.
Dec 04 05:48:38 <G94B> guys, all of the apps in the android store are free, is that going to change in the future?
Dec 04 05:48:53 <Leeds> G94B: yes
Dec 04 05:49:21 <G94B> ok, because i was wondering how developers would be motivated
Dec 04 05:49:29 <G94B> did they give a date?
Dec 04 05:49:46 <Leeds> I think you have to buy them dinner first
Dec 04 05:50:15 <G94B> :-)
Dec 04 05:50:16 <marix> show em a good time and they will do anything
Dec 04 05:50:36 <G94B> what languages can be used to develope on android besides java?
Dec 04 05:51:26 <jbq> G94B: at this point there are no other supported options. Some people have managed to run native code, but if you do that you're on your own.
Dec 04 05:52:10 <G94B> ok, i was just wondering, i'm a newbie programmer with a slight interest in learning how one goes about writing software are having it sold
Dec 04 05:52:40 <G94B> so i guess i want to learn java if i'm going to write an android app :-)
Dec 04 05:52:44 <jbq> At this point you should consider the Java programming language if you're interested in Android.
Dec 04 05:52:47 <jbq> yes
Dec 04 05:52:50 <G94B> cool
Dec 04 05:52:54 <G94B> thank you
Dec 04 05:53:39 <G94B> laters
Dec 04 06:01:33 <tripps> any updates as to when the music player (which has a ton of bugs) will support streaming audio?
Dec 04 06:01:54 <jbq> I thought it did
Dec 04 06:02:56 <tripps> jbq, i'll check now to see, but it hasn't any time I've tried it
Dec 04 06:04:05 <jbq> it should be able to stream mpeg audio.
Dec 04 06:04:45 <tripps> just says "sorry, the player does not support this type of audio file" when launching a pls from shoutcast
Dec 04 06:05:15 <jbq> I don't think it can read the shoutcast stream descriptors, you might have to find a straight mpeg stream.
Dec 04 06:06:46 <tripps> ok. trying somafm (unless that's also the same thing).
Dec 04 06:07:34 <Leeds> it will play streaming audio just fine
Dec 04 06:07:52 <tripps> same thing, "sorry, the player does not support this type of audio file"
Dec 04 06:08:02 <Leeds> yeah, somafm is a pls file
Dec 04 06:08:04 <tripps> Leeds, could you point me to somewhere I can test to verify?
Dec 04 06:08:17 <tripps> is it pls that it doesn't support then?
Dec 04 06:08:26 <jbq> tripps: yes.
Dec 04 06:08:27 <Leeds> correct
Dec 04 06:08:39 <tripps> then I guess I should rephrase my question :) when will the music player support pls files ;)
Dec 04 06:08:56 <jbq> literally "when someone implements support for it".
Dec 04 06:08:57 <Leeds> if you look inside a pls file you will see the URLs for the actual stream
Dec 04 06:09:10 <tripps> ok - I'll try that
Dec 04 06:09:52 <jbq> Amusingly, someone could implement a shoutcast app that parses the descriptor and launches the media player on the actual stream. No need to modify the system.
Dec 04 06:10:06 <Leeds> jbq: that sounds like a plan :-)
Dec 04 06:10:21 <Leeds> all I need to do is... y'know, work out how to write anything more complex than hello world in java
Dec 04 06:10:29 <jbq> :)
Dec 04 06:10:55 <Leeds> why couldn't you have taken a hint from the app engine folks and gone for python as your only supported language? huh???
Dec 04 06:11:10 <Leeds> because that has lead to such wide adoption of app engine...
Dec 04 06:11:26 <jbq> Leeds: actually Guido advocated for Python pretty heavily as you can imagine.
Dec 04 06:11:33 <Leeds> what I need to do is stop my life interfering with my coding :-)
Dec 04 06:11:51 <Leeds> oh, cool...  wonder what the chances are of getting a serious python->dalvik thing going at some point
Dec 04 06:11:57 <jbq> yeah, well, the other option is for coding to consume all your life...
Dec 04 06:12:18 <unix_infidel> jbq: well the Jython bridge relies heavily on JNI for a lot of the non supported Python stuff. though, it'd be a total mess trying to port within the timeframe you guys had.
Dec 04 06:12:29 <Leeds> that ain't gonna happen... I live in a party town and have a slightly clingy girlfriend :-)
Dec 04 06:12:59 <jbq> Leeds: you have a girlfriend? I thought you said you wanted to code! You got it all wrong... ;-)
Dec 04 06:13:20 <jbq> (j/k, I met my wife on IRC after we argued about the product I was working on at the time)
Dec 04 06:13:24 * unix_infidel thinks Leeds needs to take a lesson from that CodeMonkey song.
Dec 04 06:13:30 <Leeds> this week, I have had some social thing or other on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday...
Dec 04 06:13:46 <Leeds> jbq: my gf saw my photo on facebook and added me... that's how we met
Dec 04 06:14:03 <jbq> cool!
Dec 04 06:14:14 <unix_infidel> 3rd couple I've met that found eachother through facebook...ack.
Dec 04 06:14:29 <unix_infidel> (...this week)
Dec 04 06:14:44 <jbq> Leeds, I assume you know the joke about the architect, the artist and the engineer, right?
Dec 04 06:15:03 <Leeds> nope?
Dec 04 06:15:26 <jbq> http://blog.miragestudio7.com/2006/02/architect-artist-and-engineer/
Dec 04 06:16:00 <eugene> Leeds: that's cool
Dec 04 06:16:02 <Leeds> heh, had heard it but not recently
Dec 04 06:16:16 <Leeds> eugene: you could have met her last week :-P
Dec 04 06:16:18 <TiberiumX> Haha
Dec 04 06:16:26 <tripps> meh . . . . "cannot download. the size of the item cannot be determined" when plugging in straight URL of stream
Dec 04 06:16:37 <Leeds> tripps: plugged into where?
Dec 04 06:16:47 <eugene> Leeds: i am sure you will come visit me again
Dec 04 06:16:59 <tripps> Leeds, browser. shows music icon so it knows what app I wish to use
Dec 04 06:17:16 <tripps> unless I'm supposed to be doing something else
Dec 04 06:17:25 <tripps> other problem is pls shows tons of items all with diff URLs
Dec 04 06:17:51 <tripps> we really just need a music player that supports streaming pls ala treo, nokia and just about every other smart phone I've ever owned
Dec 04 06:18:03 <Leeds> tripps: pay me to write it - I'll put it on my list :-)
Dec 04 06:18:15 <tripps> :)
Dec 04 06:18:23 <jbq> Yes, at this point it's weak. I think that it took quite some effort to get any audio to play at all.
Dec 04 06:18:53 <tripps> jbq, no doubt. tons of bugs/"features" in it as well. sounds good though playing straight mp3s tho
Dec 04 06:19:05 <Leeds> jbq: not sure if you saw when I mentioned before - I was informally offered work developing an android app (to complement an existing iphone app) by someone I know last night
Dec 04 06:19:17 <eugene> Leeds: saw a new aussie android phone. looks like a treo but the screen looks small
Dec 04 06:19:52 <Leeds> yup, saw that... one interesting point is that it does have a different resolution screen (320x240) from the G1 - I think a lot of apps will trip up on that
Dec 04 06:20:15 <tripps> what is the res of the G1?
Dec 04 06:20:25 <Leeds> 480x320, isn't it?
Dec 04 06:20:25 <TiberiumX> 320x480?
Dec 04 06:20:34 <tripps> cool
Dec 04 06:20:39 <Leeds> er, yes, the other way round
Dec 04 06:20:41 <jbq> yes, the first device that's not a G1 will cause a bit of pain. Yup, G1 is half-VGA.
Dec 04 06:21:19 <tripps> can't wait until accel based land/port swapping and soft keys! some android apps in the market use accel to swap format and it works very well methinks
Dec 04 06:21:38 <Leeds> as long as it's optional - always optional
Dec 04 06:21:42 <tripps> right
Dec 04 06:21:47 <tripps> agreed
Dec 04 06:22:12 <jbq> The limiting factor when switching orientations typically isn't the actual drawing.
Dec 04 06:22:42 <tripps> what is it then?
Dec 04 06:22:45 <TiberiumX> Any way to increase the jpeg quality that the home screen uses when you set a background?  Some images end up looking really crappy on there.
Dec 04 06:23:06 <jbq> reading resources and doing the actual layout is typically the limiting factor.
Dec 04 06:23:21 <jbq> TiberiumX: no at the moment. The quality is set too low :(
Dec 04 06:23:53 <Leeds> and more to the point - I meant to poke romainguy about this - is it just me who often sees upwards of 5 second pauses while it loads that screen?
Dec 04 06:24:23 <tripps> really the web, gmail and messaging apps is where I would use it the most. quick 2-3 word responses to SMS that I have to open the keyboard, etc.
Dec 04 06:24:25 <TiberiumX> Yeah, I get that.
Dec 04 06:24:25 <jbq> Leeds: it happens if home had been kicked out and if there's a lot of filesystem activity while loading the icons and the background.
Dec 04 06:24:43 <TiberiumX> It happens when I've been using the phone too long and crap has accumulated.
Dec 04 06:25:07 <Leeds> that is what I assumed - but I thought home would be pinned
Dec 04 06:25:10 <TiberiumX> Some applications are really bad about starting a bunch of services and never closing them.
Dec 04 06:25:30 <TiberiumX> And services are higher priority than any activity, including the home screen, correct?
Dec 04 06:25:33 <tripps> TiberiumX, amen to that
Dec 04 06:25:46 <tripps> speaking of which when will be able to kill/close apps?
Dec 04 06:26:01 <jbq> TiberiumX: yeah, that happens a lot of you leave apps in the background (home is only one of the background apps). Things end to be better when you actually exit the apps.
Dec 04 06:26:10 * unix_infidel writes down taskmanager and IMF on tripps holiday wishlist.
Dec 04 06:26:21 <jbq> I meant, when you exist the activity.
Dec 04 06:26:35 <jbq> (can't exit an app on android, it's always there once it's installed)
Dec 04 06:27:19 <TiberiumX> How do you exit an activity?  You mean backing out (with the back button) vs. pressing Home?
Dec 04 06:27:25 <jbq> TiberiumX: yes
Dec 04 06:27:30 <unix_infidel> and android kills app based on....dynamic conditions?
Dec 04 06:27:49 <Leeds> so which way cleans things up more? home or back?
Dec 04 06:27:53 <jbq> unix_infidel: it kills processes that way.
Dec 04 06:27:57 <jbq> Leeds: back.
Dec 04 06:28:06 <TiberiumX> \me closes his inactive servies during onStop().
Dec 04 06:28:14 <TiberiumX> Argh, it's forward slash.
Dec 04 06:28:14 <tripps> but that isn't always the case. like I switch back and forth between processes using the back key and it leaves it where it was
Dec 04 06:28:51 <unix_infidel> tripps: cleans things up, not call destroy.
Dec 04 06:28:58 <Leeds> unix_infidel: there's a bunch of stuff in the docs about how process priority is calculated
Dec 04 06:29:02 <jbq> tripps: it leaves an empty process behind. takes little RAM, not CPU, and speeds up relaunching the app in case it can be kept around.
Dec 04 06:29:10 <tripps> gotcha
Dec 04 06:29:19 <jbq> those empty processes are the first ones to leave when memory gets tight.
Dec 04 06:29:27 <illusion> hey, have u guys tried to play video with the emulator?
Dec 04 06:30:01 <Leeds> so the empty process is a vm with a little state?
Dec 04 06:30:03 <tripps> like today I was using teedroid on the golf course, which was always active, then responded to emails and texts using the notification bar then backed up to teedroid. worked well and expected behavior IMO
Dec 04 06:30:04 <illusion> ive got some codes (maybe old) but it seems like doesnt work.
Dec 04 06:30:07 <unix_infidel> Honestly, most people'd prefer that method though, power users will want to kill apps, most people just want to know it's doing the best it can in a relatively intelligent fashion.
Dec 04 06:30:13 <jbq> Leeds: yes.
Dec 04 06:30:31 * tripps agrees with unix_infidel 
Dec 04 06:30:48 <RyeBrye> I reboot my phone every once in a while
Dec 04 06:30:58 <Leeds> there are times when you know you're done with something, or you can feel the system getting a little sluggish, where you want to 'reset' without rebooting
Dec 04 06:31:00 <jbq> unix_infidel: what's really needed is some way to determine which apps (if any) are actually potentially misbehaving, and allow the user to make decisions based on that.
Dec 04 06:31:15 <TiberiumX> Gah, I'd hate having to manage programs on a phone, and I hate having to reboot.
Dec 04 06:31:25 <Leeds> I'm at 191 hours since a reboot - that's quite a long time
Dec 04 06:31:50 <RyeBrye> My phone reports an uptime that goes back to january 1, 1970
Dec 04 06:31:52 <tripps> I think a battery saving feature would be the screen auto-dims after 20 seconds of inactivity rather than right before it goes blank. that behavior kinda seems useless ;)
Dec 04 06:32:04 <RyeBrye> Right now, it's uptime is 341214:31:58
Dec 04 06:32:05 <unix_infidel> jbq: Agreed. though DDMS is great, it's not a great way to "Profile" how your app behaves over long periods of time.
Dec 04 06:32:21 <Leeds> RyeBrye: not uptime - the battery info panel has stats
Dec 04 06:32:31 <unix_infidel> especially visualizing the profile, which is what management folks and architects want to do.
Dec 04 06:32:46 <RyeBrye> Leeds - which panel?
Dec 04 06:33:09 <Leeds> RyeBrye: I'm actually not sure how to get to it conventionally, but anycut lets you create a shortcut to it
Dec 04 06:33:13 <jbq> tripps: yeah, dimming earlier before locking would be sweet... the mechanism around locking and stuff is surprisingly complex, though.
Dec 04 06:33:30 <RyeBrye> Leeds - my time since boot in Battery info is: "341214:33:14" - something is screwed up in my system with how it reports uptime
Dec 04 06:33:48 <RyeBrye> probably somethign to do with a strange tweak in my boot.img or something
Dec 04 06:33:52 <tripps> also strange none of the battery management apps on market do anything about G2 vs. G3 setting though they take care of everything else
Dec 04 06:34:29 <DarkriftX> anyone tried those transition effect apks from xda-devs?
Dec 04 06:34:37 <sparkle> yeah
Dec 04 06:34:39 <TiberiumX> On the G1, is there any way to turn on audio output headphones, but keep the microphone input on the phone?  I plug in my headphones and it trys to do speaker and microphone through the port at the bottom.
Dec 04 06:34:42 <DarkriftX> worth the effort?
Dec 04 06:34:45 <sparkle> i was so thankful i could use them to disable the effects completely
Dec 04 06:34:45 <TiberiumX> Yeah, really cool.
Dec 04 06:34:50 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - there are more of them? I'm just using the one on the market
Dec 04 06:34:55 <sparkle> you can turn off some of the slow slide/transition you get sometimes
Dec 04 06:34:58 <sparkle> i hate that :p
Dec 04 06:35:45 <RyeBrye> Has anyone poked around to see if the MSM7201A has USB host - and if it's possible to enable it in the driver?
Dec 04 06:36:09 <unix_infidel> RyeBrye: iirc it was pointed out it's not available out of the box, not sure what sort of hackery can be done.
Dec 04 06:36:18 <jbq> You mean, USB host?
Dec 04 06:37:10 <RyeBrye> yeah
Dec 04 06:37:49 <jbq> The 7201 can be wired that way with additional support electronics, but the G1 doesn't have that.
Dec 04 06:38:13 <RyeBrye> jbq - so it needs to offload the host to something?
Dec 04 06:38:58 <jbq> The issue is primarily power management. The data pins can be wired straight through, but you need to power the data pins.
Dec 04 06:39:10 <jbq> (at least that's what I've heard, I'm not an expert).
Dec 04 06:39:23 <RyeBrye> jbq - right - on the other HTC devices that have USB host they have to have a funky data + power cable to enable it
Dec 04 06:40:11 <RyeBrye> jbq - just out of curiosity, do you know if there are ANY kind of specs for the msm7201 that are public? Qualcomm has about 2 paragraphs of marketing information that is less than helpful
Dec 04 06:40:17 <RyeBrye> at least that's all I've found
Dec 04 06:40:21 <jbq> RyeBrye: I have no idea.
Dec 04 06:40:59 <RyeBrye> jbq - I'm sure if you find any files on the network over there that they are ok to share... just ignore any kind of "confidential" or "proprietary" watermarks ;)
Dec 04 06:41:25 <jbq> RyeBrye: sure.
Dec 04 06:41:39 <jbq> How about this? http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=summary
Dec 04 06:41:59 <DarkriftX> what is the "light hinting" ?
Dec 04 06:42:10 <Leeds> RyeBrye: did you see what I said about the battery panel?  did you reply?  bouncy IRC...
Dec 04 06:43:11 <RyeBrye> Leeds - yes - my battery panel also has the same bogus uptime. It reports accurate "time when charging" and "ON time"
Dec 04 06:43:22 <Leeds> weird
Dec 04 06:43:27 <Leeds> I blame JesusFreke :-P
Dec 04 06:43:37 <RyeBrye> I think I've got my own boot.img on here now
Dec 04 06:43:39 <eugene> Leeds: sometimes i wonder how much time you work :D
Dec 04 06:43:46 <Leeds> eugene: what is this 'work' thing?
Dec 04 06:44:01 <Leeds> I'm bursty
Dec 04 06:44:06 <eugene> haha
Dec 04 06:46:35 <TiberiumX> Does anyone know if any of the file managers out there support recursive delete of a directory?  (Bender doesn't)
Dec 04 06:46:56 <Leeds> probably safer if they don't...
Dec 04 06:47:28 * JesusFreke cries. "Everyone always blames me!"
Dec 04 06:48:03 <jbq> JesusFreke: that's how it feels to distribute something ;-)
Dec 04 06:48:23 <Leeds> JesusFreke: don't worry, I blame jbq and romainguy as well
Dec 04 06:48:28 <JesusFreke> :)
Dec 04 06:49:08 <JesusFreke> don't worry, I'll just put in an easter egg just for you in the next update, to brick your phone
Dec 04 06:49:13 * JesusFreke grins evilly
Dec 04 06:49:18 * jbq cries. "It's always my fault!"
Dec 04 06:49:35 <Leeds> as it happens...
Dec 04 06:49:41 * JesusFreke cries. "no it's not. It's mine!"
Dec 04 06:50:07 <JesusFreke> my fault I tell you! you can't steal my fault away from me!
Dec 04 06:50:10 <Leeds> eh, I've been part of the team for a couple of OSs in my time... I know
Dec 04 06:50:10 <tripps> so what is the process whereby the gps decides to launch in the background for no apparent reason?
Dec 04 06:52:00 <jbq> tripps: basically, when an app decides it wants to get location. Probably some app you've installed, because I don't think that any of the built-in apps do that.
Dec 04 06:52:39 <tripps> jbq, it seems to do it even after booting up, if I wait long enough. perhaps some app is in the startup sequence? any way to tell which one?
Dec 04 06:53:05 <tripps> bbiab. store closing up here.
Dec 04 06:53:09 <jbermudes> sorry for the silly question, but does the g1 have any internal storage or just the sd slot?
Dec 04 06:53:21 <jbq> jbermudes: there's a bit of internal storage.
Dec 04 06:53:24 <TiberiumX> Looks like Android File Manager does.  Slowly.  And it crashes the Music app even though it wasn't playing anything from that directory.
Dec 04 06:54:02 <TiberiumX> A little bit.  I could probably fill it up just with tip calculators.
Dec 04 06:54:10 <jbermudes> jbq: ah, I figured, thanks
Dec 04 06:58:13 <rwhitby> jbq: is this legit? http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/android-powered-kogan-agora-pro-mobile-phone/
Dec 04 06:58:40 <JesusFreke> why wouldn't it be? :)
Dec 04 06:58:45 <grey-> oh that looks nice.
Dec 04 06:58:50 <grey-> more like my old e62.
Dec 04 06:59:25 <rwhitby> it's just that I haven't heard about it in the normal tech news
Dec 04 06:59:27 <grey-> can't tell if that's a scroll wheel.
Dec 04 06:59:33 <grey-> but I assume it is.
Dec 04 06:59:38 <rwhitby> I would have thought that perhaps the second android handset would be news?
Dec 04 06:59:52 <grey-> one thing the g1 [and so far other android phones I've seen] lacks compared to the sidekick is the dpad.
Dec 04 06:59:55 <grey-> which is kinda sad. :(
Dec 04 07:00:16 <grey-> that phone looks really slick though.
Dec 04 07:00:35 <jbq> rwhitby: Well, Android is open-source, so anyone can make a phone with it. Time will tell whether it's vaporware or not.
Dec 04 07:00:41 <rwhitby> pity it's screen res is less than my Treo650 :-(
Dec 04 07:00:57 <unix_infidel> rwhitby: it's also resistive.
Dec 04 07:01:02 <rwhitby> why can't I have a 320x320 phone with keyboard on the front :-(
Dec 04 07:01:20 <grey-> rwhitby: give it time; that nokia running android certainly looked relatively highres.
Dec 04 07:01:27 <grey-> maybe 640x480 or 800x600?
Dec 04 07:01:30 <unix_infidel> grey-: nokia?
Dec 04 07:01:33 <grey-> large frigging things those nokia's.
Dec 04 07:01:33 <rwhitby> unix_infidel: meh - a good UI means you should never have to touch the screen anyway ...
Dec 04 07:01:35 <grey-> unix_infidel: errr...
Dec 04 07:01:46 <grey-> unix_infidel: someone got android running on one of the nokia linux pockettablets.
Dec 04 07:01:56 <unix_infidel> grey-: n800?
Dec 04 07:01:56 <grey-> http://www.talkandroid.com/65-google-android-nokia-n810/
Dec 04 07:01:59 <rwhitby> n810
Dec 04 07:02:04 <jsharkey> rwhitby: hmm i wonder if the new homescreen really looks like that in QVGA mode (the app drawer on the right)
Dec 04 07:02:25 <unix_infidel> installed is not functional.
Dec 04 07:02:27 <grey-> albeit afaik most of those nokia's don't have a gsm/etc. radio, so not so useful.
Dec 04 07:02:40 <jbq> super-dense screens aren't necessarily an advantage: that's more data to move around, i.e. more battery consumption and less speed.
Dec 04 07:02:45 <rwhitby> yeah, the definition of "running" on the n810 is very loose
Dec 04 07:03:00 <rwhitby> jbq: but more email I can read on the screen at a time
Dec 04 07:03:25 <grey-> jbq: extra res can be handy at times.  That said, the connectbot is a kickass ssh client that thankfully properly displays [just about] and 80x24 terminal, which is really my most important gripe with most cell phone screen resolutions.
Dec 04 07:03:27 <jbq> rwhitby: true, if your eyes are good enough.
Dec 04 07:03:33 <rwhitby> on the treo, the summary email screen has 12 messages with 2 lines (sender, time, subject) for each
Dec 04 07:03:50 <rwhitby> then an individual message has 13 lines of text
Dec 04 07:03:57 <unix_infidel> jsharkey: agreed, would like to see some best practices come out for different device and input models, and at the very least, different resolutions.
Dec 04 07:04:03 <grey-> I mean... let's be honest, android's UI doesn't conserve screen real estate at all.
Dec 04 07:04:11 <jbq> extra res makes sense for CJK, less for latin.
Dec 04 07:04:13 <grey-> but bigger menu's = more to touch.
Dec 04 07:04:37 <unix_infidel> hopefully a proper framework for handling differerent device profiles.
Dec 04 07:04:43 <rwhitby> and it has 42 characters of text per line in the email view
Dec 04 07:05:13 <rwhitby> I've yet to see any other phone with a keyboard on the front (i.e. not a slide) which can show that much text in a readable format on the screen.
Dec 04 07:05:13 <grey-> jbq: well already g1 can display unicode/cjkv just fine.  The IME is what's lacking until q1 I guess.
Dec 04 07:05:21 <jbq> finger-based touch requires quite some large touch areas, and if the spacing between touchable and non-touchable areas is too inconsistent it looks really weird.
Dec 04 07:05:49 <jbq> I meant, high-density screens make more sense for CJK markets than latin markets.
Dec 04 07:06:01 * rwhitby would love a phone that has a colour ncurses interface ...
Dec 04 07:06:05 <grey-> rwhitby: my e62 (and presumably the e71) nokia's had nonslide keyboards and were decent at displaying lotsa txt (that said symbian sucks for most other things)
Dec 04 07:06:25 <jsharkey> mmmmmm ncurses  =D
Dec 04 07:06:30 <grey-> jbq: true.  but higher res doesn't always mean easier to read. ;)
Dec 04 07:06:41 <rwhitby> grey-: yeah, but the keyboards on them don't rate against the treo keyboard
Dec 04 07:06:44 <unix_infidel> asus is coming out with a QVGA phone with a fairly fast ARM in there.
Dec 04 07:06:51 <unix_infidel> should be interesting.
Dec 04 07:07:05 <jbq> Yeah. 6-pixel text at 240 dpi is challenging for most people ;-)
Dec 04 07:07:08 <grey-> jbq: if the dpi goes up but the physical screen size stays the same unless you've got some larger fonts just means you're squinting more.
Dec 04 07:07:49 <grey-> rwhitby: haven't used a treo; but the e61 had IMNSHO better keyboards than the g1, blackberries and samsung (i730)'s I've used.
Dec 04 07:07:50 <jbq> Anyway, the Android APIs are supposed to be able to deal with screens of varying densities and pixel couns.
Dec 04 07:07:56 <jbq> (counts)
Dec 04 07:08:00 <grey-> jbq: *nod*
Dec 04 07:08:12 <grey-> I bought the g1 knowing I would replace it with a better device later.
Dec 04 07:08:21 * jbq is starting to fall asleep, will head to bed.
Dec 04 07:08:22 <grey-> that said, I wasn't expecting a device like that to be out so soon, that looks sweet.
Dec 04 07:08:29 <rwhitby> grey-: note that later treos than the 650 have keyboards that are not as good
Dec 04 07:08:38 <rwhitby> e.g. the Treo pro keyboard is not good at all
Dec 04 07:08:41 <grey-> rwhitby: :-/
Dec 04 07:08:50 <unix_infidel> grey-: no major provider or carrier have teamed up to make later a seductive enough option to wait.
Dec 04 07:08:59 <unix_infidel> earliest q3 09 is an infinity.
Dec 04 07:09:00 <grey-> rwhitby: I've noticed the sidekicks have really gotten their keyboards down pat now... sk2008 has  -great- keyboard.
Dec 04 07:09:07 <grey-> skII and such, not so much.
Dec 04 07:09:17 <DarkriftX> fuck
Dec 04 07:09:21 <DarkriftX> xchat is being a pain in the ass
Dec 04 07:09:28 <RyeBrye> once the market lets you sell apps, I'm going to sell flashlight applications to the masses for $10 a piece and make enough to buy every android phone that comes out
Dec 04 07:09:31 <grey-> unix_infidel: yeah, for me the timing was perfect to get a g1, my at&t contract ran up the week it was released pretty much.
Dec 04 07:09:31 <DarkriftX> keeps losing my ip and i cant dcc chat my bot
Dec 04 07:09:35 <RyeBrye> ;)
Dec 04 07:09:37 <grey-> RyeBrye: lulz
Dec 04 07:09:45 <rwhitby> grey-: sidekick is one of those locked down US-only devices?
Dec 04 07:09:47 <grey-> I haven't checked the marketplace in a week (busy with work)
Dec 04 07:09:57 <DarkriftX> well ill sell mine (yours with a new name) for $9 and make more than you!
Dec 04 07:10:00 <grey-> rwhitby: sidekick is available elsewhere too iirc, but very tied to tmobile in the US these days I think.
Dec 04 07:10:01 <RyeBrye> I check the market a few times a day to see what is new
Dec 04 07:10:15 <grey-> rwhitby: but danger (the people who design it) lost a lot of people to android. ;)
Dec 04 07:10:21 <grey-> lost is probably the wrong word.
Dec 04 07:10:26 <grey-> many danger people left to found android.
Dec 04 07:10:28 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX - mine will have an Apple logo on it until I get a C&D letter - so it will be worth the $10
Dec 04 07:10:36 <grey-> rwhitby: very similar device, but closed. ;-/
Dec 04 07:10:41 <rwhitby> and a slider too
Dec 04 07:10:47 <grey-> rwhitby: android is very much sidekick 2.0
Dec 04 07:10:48 * unix_infidel wonders when he will see a G1 with a mini apple logo on the back ;-)
Dec 04 07:11:09 <grey-> rwhitby: and sharp over the years got their hardware manufacturing for the sidekick down to quite the refined product.
Dec 04 07:11:12 <DarkriftX> mine will have the MS logo, apple logo and google logo on it
Dec 04 07:11:13 <DarkriftX> beat that!
Dec 04 07:11:16 <jbq> android has lots of people from danger, palmsource, openwave, and be.
Dec 04 07:11:19 <DarkriftX> wait, scratch the MS logo :S
Dec 04 07:11:32 <Leeds> jbq: and one or two from google?
Dec 04 07:11:55 <grey-> rwhitby: pretty much dead as a platform though.  I've got one friend left there, and since the MS buyout, it sounds like they may pushout the 3g sidekick as the last true sidekick and then who knows... there's rumours brewing of a zune-phone [but I kinda shudder to think what will come of that]
Dec 04 07:12:01 <jbq> Leeds: you mean, who worked on other Google products before? Sure, quite a few in fact.
Dec 04 07:12:32 <rwhitby> the zune phone would have to be the antithesis of android, right?
Dec 04 07:12:53 <Leeds> surely the zune phone is just a winmob phone with zune.exe supplied?
Dec 04 07:13:26 <rwhitby> Leeds: it's bound to have something tied into the OS that no other licensee of winmob can get ...
Dec 04 07:13:26 <grey-> rwhitby: but for example... one of the initiatives at danger (pre-ms buyout) was to remove the somewhat newos-based underpinnings and instead use netbsd.  Albeit in either case (similar to linux on android) it's ostensibly just a glorified bootloader for a jvm (dalvik in android's case, but the sidekick basically had a very similar design)
Dec 04 07:14:35 <DarkriftX> w00t
Dec 04 07:15:15 <rwhitby> ah, the fine print: "The design of the Kogan Agora and Kogan Agora Pro, when dispatched, will be materially similar to the images set out on this website. Despite this, Kogan Technologies reserves the right to make non-material modifications to the design of the phones in its sole discretion."
Dec 04 07:15:34 <grey-> rwhitby: well it's early december, and they're shooting for a late january 2009 launch.
Dec 04 07:15:38 <grey-> no doubt things will change a bit.
Dec 04 07:16:03 <grey-> still that's a nice formfactor.
Dec 04 07:16:03 <rwhitby> um, I would have thought for a jan 2009 launch that mass production would need to have started.
Dec 04 07:16:16 <grey-> I prefer nonslide/flip/etc.
Dec 04 07:16:24 <rwhitby> grey-: you and me both
Dec 04 07:16:27 <grey-> qwerty keyboards + trackballs are enough moving parts to break.
Dec 04 07:16:44 <grey-> but at least they have less travel and thus lower likelihood of more force being exerted to break them.
Dec 04 07:16:57 <rwhitby> drop the trackball - to hard to move it with the thumb on a bumpy bus
Dec 04 07:17:08 <grey-> I really like the trackball usage with the ui
Dec 04 07:17:32 <grey-> but the touch/drag/scroll on the touchscreen I find myself using a LOT more than the trackball, which is something I never expected.
Dec 04 07:17:54 <grey-> even with my samsung i730 I rarely used the touchscreen (needed a stylus basically, huge pain in the ass).  I really like the android touch ui implementation.
Dec 04 07:18:13 <grey-> people complain about it not being as smooth as the iphone.
Dec 04 07:18:17 <grey-> or the lack of multitouch...
Dec 04 07:18:31 <grey-> but seems very smooth already and I'm sure it can/will improve.
Dec 04 07:18:43 <grey-> and well there's all that stuff about the multitouch already, so who knows where that will lead. (:
Dec 04 07:19:15 <grey-> I think the biggest irony, one of the reasons I bought earlier was to make sure I could maintain local root by getting a pre-RC30 device.
Dec 04 07:20:00 <grey-> and yet, I really haven't had any use for local root at all so far; I'm more pleased with the g1/android basically stock than I've been with any other phone I've had, despite some annoyances, they're leagues better than shit I've used in the past.
Dec 04 07:20:11 <grey->  </fanboyism>
Dec 04 07:20:31 <grey-> I s'pose if it were more broken I'd be inspired to hack on it more though.
Dec 04 07:22:25 * grey- goes back to late night work of hacking on new antispam system for work.
Dec 04 08:42:28 <anno^da_> could someone tell me the right codec for the video player. I'm using Handbrake with video settings mp4 container/H264 codec and for audio AAC
Dec 04 08:42:46 <anno^da_> So I'm getting a mp4 file but I cant get it playing
Dec 04 08:43:03 <anno^da_> is there some special location to put it on the sd card or whats the trick about this video player
Dec 04 08:43:14 <anno^da_> I'm always getting "No videos found" grr
Dec 04 08:44:05 <Leeds> that is correct
Dec 04 08:44:14 <Leeds> DJTachyon: ping?
Dec 04 08:47:48 <Leeds> anno^da_: try... video: no more than 320x480, h264, 24ish fps, bitrate under 1mbit or so... audio, aac, 128k... in an mp4 container
Dec 04 08:48:27 <anno^da_> Hmm well I have tried that. Settings are lower than you mentioned at the moment
Dec 04 08:48:49 <anno^da_> The video player just doesn't recognizes the files
Dec 04 08:48:56 <Leeds> it probably shouldn't make any difference, but my video file is in /Video
Dec 04 08:49:04 <anno^da_> yeah mine as well
Dec 04 08:49:19 <Leeds> well, it works for me
Dec 04 08:49:19 <anno^da_> are they available right after dropping them to the sdcard ?
Dec 04 08:49:27 <Leeds> you did unmount it, right?
Dec 04 08:49:32 <anno^da_> yeah I did
Dec 04 08:49:37 <Leeds> pull the USB cable?
Dec 04 08:49:47 <anno^da_> as well :)
Dec 04 08:50:05 <Leeds> sacrifice a goat?
Dec 04 08:50:27 <anno^da_> :)
Dec 04 08:50:54 <Leeds> using the video player called "video player"?
Dec 04 08:51:00 <Leeds> calling the file something.mp4?
Dec 04 08:51:04 <anno^da_> yeah
Dec 04 08:51:23 <anno^da_> Video Player by Jeff Hamilton :P
Dec 04 08:51:29 <Leeds> yup
Dec 04 08:51:54 <Leeds> don't really know what to tell you then
Dec 04 08:52:04 <anno^da_> is there a file manager available ?
Dec 04 08:52:34 <Leeds> a couple, yeah
Dec 04 08:52:35 <anno^da_> I haven't found one while quickly steppin through the market
Dec 04 08:52:36 <Leeds> try bender
Dec 04 08:52:39 <anno^da_> ah k
Dec 04 08:54:31 <anno^da_> hmm are you able to play the video files directly from bender ?
Dec 04 08:54:44 <Leeds> never tried... hang on
Dec 04 08:55:10 <Leeds> nope
Dec 04 08:55:14 <anno^da_> ok
Dec 04 08:55:25 <anno^da_> Let me reinstall the video player once again
Dec 04 08:57:06 <anno^da_> ok after reinstalling
Dec 04 08:57:12 <anno^da_> it finds the videos
Dec 04 08:57:14 <anno^da_> :)
Dec 04 08:57:30 <anno^da_> Oh I love applications with no menue. :>
Dec 04 08:57:41 <DarkriftX> lol
Dec 04 08:57:55 <DarkriftX> i hate all of the video players :S
Dec 04 08:59:12 <Leeds> I'm falling asleep at my desk
Dec 04 09:03:36 <anno^da_> DarkriftX: Thats right.
Dec 04 09:04:29 <anno^da_> I'd like to see VLC or some other more usable player. (but I dont think we will get that with the Java App Framework at the moment. (as well as we wont get Firefox mobile)
Dec 04 09:08:42 <anno^da_> Oh nice lagging video with 384 kbps
Dec 04 09:08:48 <anno^da_> what a mess :P
Dec 04 09:17:16 <DarkriftX> wow
Dec 04 09:17:20 <DarkriftX> this battery seems to last forever
Dec 04 09:17:26 <DarkriftX> the meter is very unreliable
Dec 04 09:17:58 <DarkriftX> 99-29% was faster than 29-24%
Dec 04 09:18:17 <DarkriftX> and i have wifi, gps and bt on :S
Dec 04 09:18:30 <DarkriftX> i didnt have much on before
Dec 04 09:19:44 <anno^da_> Who long does the battery last for you without doing much?
Dec 04 09:19:52 <anno^da_> oops How long..
Dec 04 09:20:07 <tauno> I'm getting like <24h with no gps, no wifi and not that much usage (no video and no web browsing, only DL'ing some apps from market and checking them out for a few minutes each)
Dec 04 09:20:48 <tauno> doing a full charge cycle currently and monitoring exactly how long it lasts
Dec 04 09:20:53 <anno^da_> Ok well I have to use it like a normal mobile the next days. And compare this kind of usage to my old phones.
Dec 04 09:22:43 <anno^da_> grrrr is someone using handbrake here to encode the videos?
Dec 04 09:22:58 <snadge> im ircing from my g1, in bed :P
Dec 04 09:23:02 <tauno> conversations with coworkers are always like: "wow.. this is the new thing they call the G1? yes? how long does the battery last? <24h? WTF dude.. don't be kidding!"
Dec 04 09:23:59 <snadge> i have a car charger, and an external battery thing that apparently holds 3 full charges
Dec 04 09:24:03 <anno^da_> snadge: how is the name of the irc app? :)
Dec 04 09:24:27 <snadge> im using connectbot (ssh)
Dec 04 09:24:33 <anno^da_> tauno: well you wont have more with the iPhone
Dec 04 09:24:55 <tauno> not much iPhone users here so people find it really strange that the phone can't handle at least a (work)week without charging.. everybody uses Nokias smartphones so they are used to long lasting batteries :/
Dec 04 09:25:06 <anno^da_> So for the things the phone does the battery life is ok.
Dec 04 09:25:20 <anno^da_> Well but the Nokias dont do the same things.
Dec 04 09:25:29 <anno^da_> So the comparison is not really fair.
Dec 04 09:26:21 <snadge> if i use the camera, that seems to dsr
Dec 04 09:26:39 <snadge> drain it good
Dec 04 09:27:02 <tauno> anno^da_, well.. it does not have touchscreen but everything else it can do just fine or better :) (web browsing, youtube, mail, video, mp3 playback, fm radio, etc etc)
Dec 04 09:27:23 <tauno> nokia I mean
Dec 04 09:27:35 <snadge> hard to use this tiny little keyboard and laggy ssh session
Dec 04 09:27:39 <tauno> ..and the screen is way smaller :(
Dec 04 09:28:27 <snadge> but hey.. im in bed and ircing from my phone. novelty++
Dec 04 09:29:22 <anno^da_> tauno: well the screen costs a lot of battery
Dec 04 09:30:45 <tauno> (snadge, SSH on a mobile is nothing new (there's a j2me ssh app available for like ages))
Dec 04 09:30:50 <tauno> anno^da_, indeed
Dec 04 09:31:22 <Leeds> DarkriftX: I did a very easy battery test... unplugged my phone at 10am yesterday, didn't plug it back in...
Dec 04 09:32:08 <snadge> that explains why screen fades down quickly, and turns off
Dec 04 09:32:19 <Leeds> after a normal day (one call, some SMS, some IM, about an hour of audio playing, some games, some browsing...) it was at 10% 24 hours later
Dec 04 09:32:37 <tauno> anno^da_, it's just that the G1 has less features than some Nokias but the battery lasts ~5x less.. is it really the display that takes all the juice or is there something else that can be tweaked (like in the core OS) to get it to last a little longer?
Dec 04 09:32:50 <Leeds> there is tweaking going on
Dec 04 09:32:54 <Leeds> what features are you missing?
Dec 04 09:33:29 <snadge> Perhaps nokia has bigger battery
Dec 04 09:34:09 <DarkriftX> im not trying to test it, i wanted to drain it and recharge it
Dec 04 09:34:57 <Mony> <snadge> but hey.. im in bed and ircing from my phone. novelty++
Dec 04 09:35:01 <snadge> i also heard that nokia has bad bat life, if u use internet, gps etc
Dec 04 09:35:13 <Leeds> DarkriftX: trying to do a discharge/charge cycle?
Dec 04 09:35:18 <Mony> snadge, i did't know there is irc client for android
Dec 04 09:35:28 <Mony> could you give me a hint? :)
Dec 04 09:35:42 <snadge> im using irc via ssh
Dec 04 09:36:13 <Mony> irssi or bitchx? :D
Dec 04 09:36:19 <sparkle> screen :D
Dec 04 09:36:19 <tauno> Leeds, I'm personally not missing anything (since I use my personal phone for only calling and a few SMS per month) but if you just compare the G1 to some Nokias feature-by-feature, the G1 lacks aGPS, FM radio, video recording, (camera) flash, "apps on SD card" etc..
Dec 04 09:36:52 <sparkle> also actual productivity apps - being able to work with word/excel/ppt docs, acrobat viewer, flash
Dec 04 09:37:00 <Leeds3dot0> video recording will come... apps on SD will come... other apps will come
Dec 04 09:37:03 <sparkle> a full featured bluetooth implementation
Dec 04 09:37:08 <Leeds3dot0> FM radio is pointless
Dec 04 09:37:09 <tauno> snadge, yes, Nokia has a "bad" battery life if you use wifi and gps and stuff.. but it then still beats my G1 when NOT using these features on my G1 :(
Dec 04 09:37:15 <Leeds3dot0> the bluetooth is being worked on
Dec 04 09:37:22 <sparkle> sure
Dec 04 09:37:27 <tauno> Leeds3dot0, FM radio is pointless to YOU :)
Dec 04 09:37:38 <Leeds3dot0> what is fair to say is that android/G1 is not really ready for mass market yet
Dec 04 09:37:48 * sparkle shrugs
Dec 04 09:37:57 <Leeds3dot0> tauno: it's very almost 2009... internet radio won
Dec 04 09:38:00 <sparkle> think of it as positioned not against high end WM phones and the iphone
Dec 04 09:38:04 <sparkle> but low end handsets
Dec 04 09:38:08 <sparkle> mass market
Dec 04 09:38:18 <Leeds3dot0> but it's a smartphone
Dec 04 09:38:46 <sparkle> the line is getting blurred though
Dec 04 09:38:49 <tauno> Leeds3dot0, I know that it's been worked on.. I'm just saying that RIGHT NOW a phone that has less features and costs more, has a 5x smaller battery.. I don't blame android,, it's just the G1 hardware (or is the OS really wasting battery?)
Dec 04 09:39:03 <sparkle> and by a lot of definitions it's not much of a smartphone, more of an "internetphone"
Dec 04 09:39:16 <Leeds3dot0> the OS is a lot less efficient than it could be
Dec 04 09:39:29 <Leeds3dot0> hmm... wonder if anyone knows - is the kernel tickless?
Dec 04 09:39:36 <sparkle> yes
Dec 04 09:39:46 <Leeds3dot0> yes it's tickless?
Dec 04 09:40:00 <tauno> yes, "anyone knows" (;
Dec 04 09:40:49 <Leeds3dot0> anyway, there are things being worked on right now which should significantly improve battery life
Dec 04 09:40:49 <sparkle> CONFIG_NO_HZ=y
Dec 04 09:40:55 <sparkle> yes, it is tickless
Dec 04 09:41:13 <sparkle> and while it doesn't have the native linux speed scaling turned on in the .25 release, there is a crude sliding scale
Dec 04 09:41:17 <sparkle> depending on display sleep state, etc
Dec 04 09:41:20 <Leeds3dot0> but the big drains are things like the screen and radios, and there isn't that much you can do about them
Dec 04 09:44:00 <Leeds3dot0> sparkle: I'd be interested in your definition of a smartphone then
Dec 04 09:44:42 <DarkriftX> yes leeds
Dec 04 09:44:52 <DarkriftX> wow, the chat is jumping in here tonight
Dec 04 09:45:28 <DarkriftX> i was hoping it wouldnt take all night
Dec 04 09:45:43 <DarkriftX> all radios on, brightness at max and playing games and its barely going down
Dec 04 09:45:55 <DarkriftX> i guess thats good
Dec 04 09:45:58 <Leeds3dot0> play some mp3s in the background
Dec 04 09:46:04 <anno^da_> Leeds3dot0: What does significantly mean in hours? :-)
Dec 04 09:46:35 <sparkle> an open platform with a wide range of productivity and business applications - basically a mini laptop
Dec 04 09:46:46 <Leeds3dot0> anno^da_: +25% should be relatively easy, +50% should be doable, I'd say
Dec 04 09:47:01 <sparkle> something that's useful standalone as well as on the net
Dec 04 09:47:11 <anno^da_> That would be nice. It would be ok for me to get 2-3 days when doing nothing with the phone.
Dec 04 09:47:43 <anno^da_> (switched of gps,bt,wlan) Just radio for incoming calls and sms
Dec 04 09:47:59 <Leeds3dot0> sparkle: whereas I'd say a phone on which the OS is exposed to third-party applications - a general-purpose portable computing device in the form of a phone
Dec 04 09:48:01 <anno^da_> (I know that this is NOT the normal usage scenario)
Dec 04 09:48:16 <Leeds3dot0> the range of applications is irrelevent to whether the device itself is a smartphone
Dec 04 09:48:47 * sparkle nods
Dec 04 09:48:53 <sparkle> symbian and WM clearly qualify
Dec 04 09:49:04 <sparkle> the g1 is exposed in a rather limited fashion
Dec 04 09:50:17 <Leeds> true... it's a bit of a hybrid - certainly a lot smarter than a device with a j2me sandbox... I'd say it's smart, on the basis that *all* the apps run on dalvik - the dialer, home, browser, etc.
Dec 04 09:50:28 <sparkle> except that they don't
Dec 04 09:50:35 <Leeds> don't they?
Dec 04 09:50:46 <sparkle> important apps like the browser use JNI-like hooks to pull in native code
Dec 04 09:51:04 <sparkle> which is something you can't do as an average app developer
Dec 04 09:51:10 <Leeds> hmm...
Dec 04 09:51:30 <Leeds> but you *can* use webkit from your app
Dec 04 09:51:55 <Leeds> and given that the browser is open source, there should - in theory - be nothing stopping you from using the same interfaces?
Dec 04 09:52:57 <DarkriftX> lol
Dec 04 09:53:12 <DarkriftX> has anyone noticed that the "maps" about info calls it "Google Mobile (iPhone version)"
Dec 04 09:53:38 <DarkriftX> or maybe its just a generic about
Dec 04 09:53:47 <DarkriftX> because i see blackberry mentioned also
Dec 04 10:10:26 <anno^da_> Does someone know anything about video encoding. And can tell me what I'm doing wrong when I get a big green block for the video content while playback?
Dec 04 10:10:36 <anno^da_> (audio is playing fine)
Dec 04 10:10:51 <anno^da_> And VLCs plays the video fine as well. (no green blocks :) )
Dec 04 10:42:17 <waldo_> what isn't playing it?  if vlc does, what's the problem?
Dec 04 10:48:37 <anno^da_> Well VLC does but VideoPlayer (app on the G1) does not. :)
Dec 04 11:01:26 <joeyjones> any ideas for how to get my pc to registed my android phone when i lug it into the usb port?
Dec 04 11:01:44 <joeyjones> it charges but i cannot see it in ddms
Dec 04 11:01:51 <joeyjones> *plug
Dec 04 11:02:39 <waldo_> depeding on the firmware you may need to tell it to mount from the notification bar at the top of your g1
Dec 04 11:02:57 <joeyjones> i'm running android on my htv vogue
Dec 04 11:03:24 <joeyjones> and i see nothing on the notification bar
Dec 04 11:04:31 <waldo_> you want to mount it ya?
Dec 04 11:04:35 <waldo_> should appear on the desktop
Dec 04 11:04:40 <waldo_> if you're using windows you need to install drivers I think
Dec 04 11:04:51 <joeyjones> all i want to do is take a screenshot using the sdk
Dec 04 11:05:28 <waldo_> you may still need to install the drivers
Dec 04 11:06:07 <joeyjones> it doesn;t bring up the "found new hardware" dialog
Dec 04 11:06:22 <waldo_> well try installing it anyway
Dec 04 11:06:27 <waldo_> read the sdk installation instructions
Dec 04 11:07:25 <joeyjones> sdk is installed, but windows doesn;t seem to register the device
Dec 04 11:07:36 <waldo_> again, is the driver installed?
Dec 04 11:08:07 <joeyjones> reading http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware it says that the devoce should ask for the drivers to use
Dec 04 11:08:41 <waldo_> you are using windows?
Dec 04 11:08:43 <waldo_> If you're developing on Windows (32-bit only), you need to install the USB driver for adb:
Dec 04 11:09:01 <waldo_> just install it yourself I guess
Dec 04 11:09:04 <waldo_> I don't really know for windwos
Dec 04 11:14:31 <anno^da_> http://www.android.com/branding.html  <- Is the high res android available?
Dec 04 11:30:12 <anno^da_> Other Media
Dec 04 11:30:12 <anno^da_> If you produce non-hypertext works, such as books, audio, or video, we ask that you make a best effort to include a spoken or written attribution in the spirit of the messages above.   <- What could that mean for a T-Shirt. Would be www.android.com enough (perhaps CC information added)
Dec 04 11:33:19 <pandzilla> anyone ordered a Kogan yet?
Dec 04 11:33:53 <pandzilla> http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/03/kogan-intros-worlds-second-android-phone-agora-agora-pro/
Dec 04 11:43:03 <Phlogi> when I get a "sim card locked" on my phone, this means I need to unlock it right?
Dec 04 11:43:44 <eugene> pandzilla: thought about it but wasn't sure if it is good
Dec 04 11:47:23 <anno^da_> Phlogi: right just type in the SIM card password
Dec 04 11:47:42 <Phlogi> anno^da_: hmm there is no field to type in anything
Dec 04 11:47:53 <Phlogi> it just says: sim card locked and that emergency staff
Dec 04 11:48:18 <Phlogi> I mean I read that I need to unlock the phone...but now I'm confused
Dec 04 11:48:37 <anno^da_> press the menue button ;)
Dec 04 11:49:17 <Phlogi> damn of course :D
Dec 04 11:50:28 <Phlogi> ah and now SIM network unlock PIN
Dec 04 11:50:44 <Phlogi> thats the one I need to get for money from a website or so right?
Dec 04 11:50:48 <anno^da_> the password of your RIM
Dec 04 11:50:50 <anno^da_> SIM
Dec 04 11:50:52 <anno^da_> nope
Dec 04 11:51:00 <anno^da_> ahh
Dec 04 11:51:23 <anno^da_> How does it look right now? Wait a sec
Dec 04 11:51:27 <joeyjones> pandzilla: i think it;s good that they made one, but they probabyl won't sell many, and i plan to stick to htc and othe rmain manufacturers
Dec 04 11:51:38 <anno^da_> http://modmygphone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3201
Dec 04 11:51:45 <pandzilla> thinking it might be worth a shot
Dec 04 11:51:47 <anno^da_> thats how it looks right
Dec 04 11:51:52 <anno^da_> Step 3
Dec 04 11:51:58 <pandzilla> it's like 175 euros incl. shipping
Dec 04 11:52:44 <joeyjones> pandzilla: if they could get on with a carrier they would make a killing
Dec 04 11:53:34 <Phlogi> anno^da_: thanks, there is no cheaper service? :)
Dec 04 11:54:33 <anno^da_> well except  the 20$ one
Dec 04 11:54:52 <anno^da_> http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com/EN/unsimlock-G1.php
Dec 04 11:54:57 <anno^da_> thats the only one I know
Dec 04 11:55:01 <anno^da_> they are very fast
Dec 04 11:55:12 <anno^da_> 3h from payment to the code (in my case)
Dec 04 11:55:24 <joeyjones> pandzilla: i'm hoping that the htc touch hd will get android
Dec 04 11:57:27 <joeyjones> i've seen rumors of it, and i already enjoy android on my htc vogue
Dec 04 11:57:28 <VJTachyon> hey guys
Dec 04 11:57:45 <VJTachyon> on the plane to san fran
Dec 04 11:58:41 <joeyjones> VJTachyon: what ever happened to airplane mode?
Dec 04 11:58:42 <joeyjones> :p
Dec 04 11:58:52 <tauno> its for wussies..
Dec 04 11:59:04 <Phlogi> thanks
Dec 04 11:59:16 <VJTachyon> well airplane mode in a moment
Dec 04 11:59:27 <VJTachyon> havent left the ground yet
Dec 04 11:59:50 <VJTachyon> alright well later guys!
Dec 04 11:59:51 <pandzilla> joeyjones: yeah, Android on the touch would be neat
Dec 04 12:00:14 <joeyjones> pandzilla: it works decently well on the htc touch vogue
Dec 04 12:00:35 <joeyjones> i'm actually planning on basign an english assignment off of it :p
Dec 04 12:00:58 <joeyjones> user/procedure manual: installing and using google android on the htc vogue
Dec 04 12:03:14 <joeyjones> *basing
Dec 04 12:03:33 <blau> start the activity in another thread?
Dec 04 12:03:44 <blau> lol doh that was to something from yesterday
Dec 04 12:07:44 <joeyjones> damn, OO.o jsut crashed on me.
Dec 04 12:18:37 <blau> tryin to write to the sms databse
Dec 04 12:21:14 <blau> sweet
Dec 04 12:21:18 <blau> i can make fake messages
Dec 04 12:21:41 <blau> now to back date text messages from paris hiltons phone number
Dec 04 12:26:37 <mib_cu0z9n> wht is binder ipc ? how it works ?
Dec 04 12:28:46 <blau> anyone know where i can find a list of celeb phone numbers
Dec 04 12:37:41 <blau> idiots, tested my app by forwarding messages to themself
Dec 04 12:38:23 <blau> now i have to waste time checking that you arent the person sending to yourself
Dec 04 12:49:05 <blau> stupid 1 star review
Dec 04 12:49:41 <tauno> blau, sure, the users are idiots when your app has a bug :P
Dec 04 12:50:56 <tauno> I'd say that this is a nice testcase and would be grateful that somebody actually tested this strange use case that highlighted a bug/missing feature in your app :)
Dec 04 12:51:53 <blau> its not a bug
Dec 04 12:52:04 <blau> its a feature
Dec 04 12:53:07 <blau> it works exactly as specified
Dec 04 12:53:19 <tauno> then the spec is missing something :)
Dec 04 12:53:32 <blau> what happens if you forward a grandcentral call back to grandcentral?
Dec 04 12:54:02 <tauno> anyway.. don't call your users idiots :)
Dec 04 12:54:22 <tauno> ..not in public at least :P
Dec 04 12:54:36 <blau> "why does it keep sending me freaking messages.. I tried it by writing to myself and now it doesnt keep sending me messages"
Dec 04 12:56:59 <tauno> oh..
Dec 04 12:57:16 <blau> lol
Dec 04 12:57:56 <blau> and if something seems to broken in such an interesting and highly praised app, wouldnt you try to send an email to the developer to see whats wrong
Dec 04 12:58:14 <blau> s/to/so/
Dec 04 12:58:14 <infobot> blau meant: and if something seems so broken in such an interesting and highly praised app, wouldnt you try to send an email to the developer to see whats wrong
Dec 04 12:59:55 <blau> all i care about is that i can now fake text messages from people
Dec 04 13:01:11 <blau> :)
Dec 04 13:21:22 <Dougie187> anyone going to order one of those Agora phones?
Dec 04 13:21:54 <joeyjones> if my phone died tomorrow i would
Dec 04 13:22:19 <joeyjones> mainly because the phone i actually want doesn't run android yet and is ~900 bucks
Dec 04 13:22:26 <joeyjones> 250 < 900
Dec 04 13:22:27 <blau> mmmmm
Dec 04 13:22:46 <Dougie187> have you heard what freq's they use?
Dec 04 13:22:52 <Dougie187> and thus what carriers?
Dec 04 13:23:10 <blau> agora looks awesome
Dec 04 13:23:19 <blau> doubt i can use it with tmobile here tho
Dec 04 13:23:21 <blau> :(
Dec 04 13:23:41 <blau> sweet, its cameraless too
Dec 04 13:24:08 <Dougie187> is the pro camera less too?
Dec 04 13:24:16 <blau> the pro has camera
Dec 04 13:24:23 <blau> The Agora is a 3G mobile with a touchscreen, QWERTY keyboard, and microSD card slot. A "Pro" model with Wi-Fi, a 2 megapixel camera and GPS costs an extra $100.
Dec 04 13:24:23 <joeyjones> yeah
Dec 04 13:24:33 <joeyjones> oh, i guess i couldn;t use it.
Dec 04 13:24:44 <joeyjones> my carrier is CDMA
Dec 04 13:24:50 <Dougie187> i thought it was only like 60 bucks more.
Dec 04 13:24:58 <Dougie187> like 170 - 250
Dec 04 13:25:00 <Dougie187> something like that
Dec 04 13:25:06 <Dougie187> i guess thats 80
Dec 04 13:25:08 <Dougie187> but still
Dec 04 13:25:32 <blau> i just googled agora
Dec 04 13:25:33 <Dougie187> its good to see more phones coming out though
Dec 04 13:25:46 <blau> http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,24749345-5014239,00.html
Dec 04 13:26:13 <joeyjones> Dougie187: i'm holding out for a carrier-supported phone from a major manufacturer
Dec 04 13:26:17 <blau> 299 and 399
Dec 04 13:26:27 <Dougie187> im watching this video of some guy taking a sharp pocket knife to his bb storm
Dec 04 13:26:36 <Dougie187> blau: thats AU$
Dec 04 13:26:55 <joeyjones> Dougie187: bb storm?
Dec 04 13:26:58 <Dougie187> yeah
Dec 04 13:27:07 <blau> ahh duh
Dec 04 13:27:08 <blau> lol
Dec 04 13:27:09 <joeyjones> i don't know what that means...
Dec 04 13:27:15 <blau> blackberry storm
Dec 04 13:27:20 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/04/blackberry-storm-display-vs-knife-blade-fight/
Dec 04 13:27:20 <joeyjones> aahh
Dec 04 13:27:34 <joeyjones> blackberry makes me lol
Dec 04 13:27:44 <Dougie187> that screen can take some damage.
Dec 04 13:27:53 <blau> wish i could get the kogan with gps but w/o camer
Dec 04 13:28:05 <blau> although i rarely use gps now, its always off
Dec 04 13:28:09 <joeyjones> blau: why no camera?
Dec 04 13:28:22 <Dougie187> blau: in US its $192 - $256
Dec 04 13:28:26 <blau> work related stuff
Dec 04 13:28:38 <Dougie187> you work in a lab?
Dec 04 13:28:41 <blau> i cant take any recording devices when i visit contractors
Dec 04 13:28:59 <joeyjones> blau: you could always remove the camera
Dec 04 13:28:59 <blau> it sucks
Dec 04 13:29:09 <joeyjones> but technically any smart phone can record audio
Dec 04 13:29:13 <Dougie187> yeah i know what you mean blau
Dec 04 13:29:51 <blau>  i like the kogan form factor
Dec 04 13:29:55 <blau> but i dont see a search button
Dec 04 13:30:04 <joeyjones> search button?
Dec 04 13:30:23 <blau> like on the g1, next to the ampsersand by the space bar
Dec 04 13:38:09 <blau> the phone is awesome
Dec 04 13:38:12 <blau> its in the form factor i want too
Dec 04 13:46:40 <joeyjones> i don;t see much need for a search button
Dec 04 13:46:41 <joeyjones> :p
Dec 04 13:46:54 <joeyjones> blau: i haven't looked at the g1 that much
Dec 04 13:47:21 <blau> you can use it for shortcuts
Dec 04 13:47:30 <blau> you hold search and press a button
Dec 04 13:47:35 <blau> and its a shortcut
Dec 04 13:47:41 <joeyjones> persoanlyl i;d prefer a pull-out T9 keyboard with a larger touch screen
Dec 04 13:48:38 <joeyjones> i've gotten really used to using a touch kb and with fat fingers could never use a qwerty
Dec 04 13:56:11 <Death_Syn> i wish i could have an android phone in a palm form factor
Dec 04 13:56:14 <Death_Syn> that'd be the win
Dec 04 13:56:28 <blau> the agora is close
Dec 04 13:56:43 <blau> grr so close to be able to save mms's
Dec 04 13:56:44 <kslater> Death_Syn: as in a Palm PDA? Like the T|X?
Dec 04 14:02:36 <Death_Syn> kslater: yes, like the palmpda
Dec 04 14:03:00 <Death_Syn> i was thinking more treo formed, though
Dec 04 14:05:12 <kslater> never used a treo
Dec 04 14:05:20 <kslater> still use a Palm T|X though
Dec 04 14:05:41 <kslater> Eventually, I'll have everything I need on the G1 and will retire the T|X
Dec 04 14:06:27 <joeyjones> T|X?
Dec 04 14:18:17 <marix> hail all!
Dec 04 14:20:51 <blau> hail
Dec 04 14:20:54 <snappy> hi.
Dec 04 14:20:59 <blau> mary
Dec 04 14:21:17 <blau> dgAway is the best app ive ever used
Dec 04 14:28:45 <joeyjones> dgAway?
Dec 04 14:28:59 <blau> yes
Dec 04 14:29:06 <joeyjones> what's that?
Dec 04 14:29:31 <blau> it lets you auto respond to texts and phone calls, or shoot a quick response to missed/declined phone calls
Dec 04 14:29:58 <kslater> joeyjones: Palm T|X -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TX_(handheld)
Dec 04 14:30:12 <joeyjones> aahh, a palm handset.
Dec 04 14:31:24 <joeyjones> blau: android app?
Dec 04 14:32:14 <blau> yes
Dec 04 14:33:35 <joeyjones> now i want to try to track it down
Dec 04 14:33:49 <joeyjones> if only the app store was available on my vogue
Dec 04 14:35:59 <Disconnect> saurik: is your boot img a drop-in replacement for jf's? and can you elaborate (a link is fine :) ..) on the "bluetooth enhancements"?
Dec 04 14:36:15 <Milad> is possible in android to implement accessing to linux terminal ?
Dec 04 14:36:37 <Disconnect> Milad: its already done. install "terminal" from marketplace
Dec 04 14:36:39 <marix> milad,  their are a few terminal emulators out
Dec 04 14:37:35 <saurik> Disconnect: I don't know, jf's stuff is mostly based on my init
Dec 04 14:37:44 <saurik> AFAIK his stuff is == my stuff on that front
Dec 04 14:37:47 <Milad> Disconnect, I don't buy G1 yet can you tell me the site of creator of it ?
Dec 04 14:38:03 <saurik> oh, but I don't know if he went with the same naming in his init.rc, though
Dec 04 14:38:05 <Disconnect> Milad: it comes as part of the source code (term.apk is built when you build android)
Dec 04 14:38:20 <saurik> that's something we might not be sharing
Dec 04 14:38:38 <saurik> as for the bluetooth stuff, I just mean the new rfkill commit from Google that you've already seen people playing with
Dec 04 14:40:14 <marix> looks like new version of tweak tools is out
Dec 04 14:41:30 <eldenz> it's a different app (if you refer to the Lite version)
Dec 04 14:41:50 <marix> yea,  you are correct...
Dec 04 14:42:16 <marix> transitions are nice
Dec 04 14:42:33 <eldenz> yep, love it on 1x :)
Dec 04 14:45:04 <marix> 10x makes me hate the feature :(
Dec 04 14:45:29 <marix> also isn't it backwards
Dec 04 14:45:37 <marix> wouldn't 10x mean 10x faster
Dec 04 14:46:36 <blau> oh it is pretty cool
Dec 04 14:53:52 <Dougie187> good morning michaelnovakjr
Dec 04 14:54:03 <michaelnovakjr> good morning
Dec 04 14:54:17 <Dougie187> hows it going?
Dec 04 14:54:21 <Dougie187> you have a good thanksgiving?
Dec 04 14:54:27 <michaelnovakjr> indeed, how about you?
Dec 04 14:54:37 <Dougie187> yeah it was really good
Dec 04 14:54:45 <Dougie187> my family came and we cooked them thanksgiving dinner
Dec 04 14:54:54 <Dougie187> first time cooking thanksgiving and we fed 9 people.
Dec 04 14:55:04 <michaelnovakjr> nice!
Dec 04 14:55:08 <Dougie187> yeah
Dec 04 14:55:11 <Dougie187> it was pretty sweet
Dec 04 14:55:55 <Dougie187> what did you guys do?
Dec 04 14:56:06 <michaelnovakjr> went to my aunt's house for dinner
Dec 04 14:56:14 <michaelnovakjr> it was about 20 of us
Dec 04 14:56:17 <Dougie187> nice.
Dec 04 14:56:21 <Dougie187> sounds like fun
Dec 04 14:56:32 <michaelnovakjr> yea, it was nice
Dec 04 14:57:33 <Dougie187> you play any new games lately?
Dec 04 14:57:38 <michaelnovakjr> mirror's edge
Dec 04 14:57:50 <Dougie187> you get it?
Dec 04 14:57:57 <Dougie187> i've only played the demo
Dec 04 14:58:06 <michaelnovakjr> its a sweet game
Dec 04 14:58:10 <Dougie187> thats awesome
Dec 04 14:58:13 <Dougie187> the demo was really fun
Dec 04 14:58:17 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Dec 04 14:58:21 <Dougie187> but it gets old after a while, as it is just a demo
Dec 04 14:58:26 <Dougie187> Jasta said Left 4 dead is awesome
Dec 04 14:58:28 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Dec 04 14:58:35 <michaelnovakjr> my brother just got that game
Dec 04 14:58:37 <blau> it is
Dec 04 14:58:42 <blau> i love it
Dec 04 14:58:51 <Dougie187> i think it would be really fun
Dec 04 15:00:01 <Dougie187> it has a cool versus mode too
Dec 04 15:00:13 <michaelnovakjr> i tried the new call of duty over the weekend as well
Dec 04 15:00:55 <Dougie187> Its pretty good.
Dec 04 15:00:57 <Disconnect> does it run on android?
Dec 04 15:00:58 <Dougie187> i don't think its amazing though
Dec 04 15:01:15 <michaelnovakjr> i still prefer cod4, but it was cool
Dec 04 15:01:19 <Dougie187> but i have to admit, the flame thrower is really fun to play with
Dec 04 15:01:27 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Dec 04 15:01:43 <Dougie187> but its not a terrific game though
Dec 04 15:02:09 <Dougie187> my little brother just gave me mass effect too
Dec 04 15:02:17 <Dougie187> so now i have to beat that, fable 2, and gta4.
Dec 04 15:02:32 <Dougie187> and my older brother loaned me the force unleased.
Dec 04 15:02:50 <michaelnovakjr> sweet
Dec 04 15:02:56 <michaelnovakjr> just finished the force unleashed
Dec 04 15:03:13 <Dougie187> its pretty fun on the wii
Dec 04 15:03:34 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i have it for the ps3
Dec 04 15:03:55 <Dougie187> thats cool
Dec 04 15:05:33 <michaelnovakjr> last night i finally got around to ordering headphones and the sdcard for my g1
Dec 04 15:06:38 <Dougie187> nice
Dec 04 15:06:49 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i went with the 16GB card
Dec 04 15:06:57 <Dougie187> who knows what the possible mime types android supports are?
Dec 04 15:07:22 <michaelnovakjr> i think it depends on the application
Dec 04 15:07:40 <Dougie187> ok
Dec 04 15:08:14 <blau> grr cant figure out how to get to mms
Dec 04 15:08:23 <blau> the content provider data makes no sense to me
Dec 04 15:08:53 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: you load your card up with music yet?
Dec 04 15:08:57 <Dougie187> or are you using five for that now?
Dec 04 15:08:57 <blau> "_id","thread_id","date","msg_box","read","m_id","sub","sub_cs","ct_t","ct_l","exp","m_cls","m_type","v","m_size","pri","rr","rpt_a","resp_st","st","tr_id","retr_st","retr_txt","retr_txt_cs","read_status","ct_cls","resp_txt","d_tm","d_rpt"
Dec 04 15:08:57 <blau> "2","16","1226691552","1","1","3528325@0-mms.mmsig.com","<FW>FWD:FWD:<FW>FW: Fw:<FW>FW: FW: ?*?: Fwd: <FW>FWD:FWD","106","application/vnd.wap.multipart.related","null","null","personal","132","19","null","129","129","null","null","null","2tid17327687757_1x5iez","null","null","null","null","null","null","null","128"
Dec 04 15:08:57 <blau> "4","26","1228161235","1","1","fo7jhwarg940109@w.tmomail.net","null","null","application/vnd.wap.multipart.related","null","null","personal","132","19","null","129","129","null","null","null","1tid17327687757_0kw3-020202","null","null","null","null","null","null","null","129"
Dec 04 15:08:59 <blau> oops
Dec 04 15:09:03 <Dougie187> yikes.
Dec 04 15:09:29 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187: it hasn't arrived yet, but I do have my current sdcard loaded up with music
Dec 04 15:09:35 <michaelnovakjr> even though its very little :)
Dec 04 15:09:37 <Dougie187> heh
Dec 04 15:10:03 <michaelnovakjr> i ordered the stuff through amazon
Dec 04 15:10:24 <michaelnovakjr> if amazon had a physical store i probably would live there
Dec 04 15:10:40 <androidsunrise> I used to work well for "geo fix -80.1111 26.2222 4392" in "telnet localhost 5554" to connect emulator app. Now I didn't get any response in logcat in linux side. My code and "geo fix ...." works well in my windows XP side. I think "geo fix" server is dead right now. How to fix this problem or clean up all the android stuff? I already removed android SDK and unzipped android SDK and changed the android place two time but the 
Dec 04 15:11:03 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: i have a friend who loves amazon's mp3 download thing.
Dec 04 15:11:09 <michaelnovakjr> yea, me too
Dec 04 15:11:10 <Dougie187> drm free and cheap, right?
Dec 04 15:11:13 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Dec 04 15:11:16 <Dougie187> nice
Dec 04 15:11:26 <michaelnovakjr> screw iTunes.... i get all my music through amazon mp3
Dec 04 15:11:31 <michaelnovakjr> and the android app for it is nice
Dec 04 15:11:59 <eldenz> michaelnovakjr, did you order the 3.5mm adapter for your own headphones?
Dec 04 15:12:13 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Dec 04 15:12:26 <eldenz> nice, where did you order it?
Dec 04 15:12:34 <michaelnovakjr> amazon :)
Dec 04 15:13:02 <eldenz> android Music app is "okay". what i don't like is 1) no browsing by genre and 2) albumart is displayed too tiny while browsing
Dec 04 15:13:28 <Leeds> interesting, by the way, that amazon.com mp3 store is blocked for me because I'm outside the US... but the Android Amazon store app works perfectly
Dec 04 15:13:36 <eldenz> and the fact it only recognizes *embedded* albumart, of course. folder.jpg doesn't work :f
Dec 04 15:14:45 <vol> androidsunrise: adb kill-server; sleep 1; adb start-server
Dec 04 15:15:07 <vol> which emulator and which adb to determine where things are
Dec 04 15:16:40 <michaelnovakjr> eldenz: the music app is ok, i don't really look at the UI when listening to music so it doesn't bother me too much that the layout is slightly lame
Dec 04 15:20:34 <vol> androoid: interesting. The instructions at http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/lbs.html say to use the geo command, but there is no geo binary in the /tools directory. I guess they wanted you to telnet to the device first?
Dec 04 15:20:52 <vol> in any event, have you considered going through ddms?
Dec 04 15:21:20 <blau> new ver of dgAway yay
Dec 04 15:22:05 <blau> hey how does this sound for phone number comparison
Dec 04 15:22:13 <blau> convert it to a number?
Dec 04 15:22:33 <blau> ugh dgAway installs went down significantly
Dec 04 15:22:33 <blau> wtf
Dec 04 15:22:42 <blau> it was at like 80% for days
Dec 04 15:23:29 <Disconnect> blau: strip anything other than 0-9#* and compare (since pause/comma can be considered a noop) or if you're doing caller-id comparisons strip anything other than 0-9 and trim length to match the shorter entry..
Dec 04 15:24:23 <blau> basically caller id, i guess
Dec 04 15:25:59 <blau> dgAways popularity is waning
Dec 04 15:26:08 <Disconnect> so compare numbers only, at hte length of the shorter one. (so if i have you as 210-123-1234 x 5555 and cid says 210-123-1234 it should match "2101231234" against "2101231234")
Dec 04 15:26:43 <blau> thanks disc
Dec 04 15:30:35 <blau> 0% conversion
Dec 04 15:30:36 <blau> sighhh
Dec 04 15:30:44 <vol> thanks to you
Dec 04 15:30:47 <vol> you'll notice people were talking
Dec 04 15:30:51 <vol> and then you talked
Dec 04 15:30:57 <vol> and then no one was talking
Dec 04 15:33:39 <Disconnect> actually i think its quieter cuz dougie and michael found IM :)
Dec 04 15:33:50 <Dougie187> Thanks Disconnect
Dec 04 15:36:00 <michaelnovakjr> yea what an invention
Dec 04 15:36:08 <michaelnovakjr> i can't believe what i have been missing
Dec 04 15:41:32 <marix> Are their any other transitions planned?
Dec 04 15:41:40 <blau> for what
Dec 04 15:41:48 <marix> screen transitions
Dec 04 15:41:53 <marix> other than the slide one
Dec 04 15:42:02 <marix> perhaps a cool fade in or something
Dec 04 15:42:33 <marix> or the strait from the 80s pixel by pixel morph
Dec 04 15:43:53 <blau> is droid sans crap undocumented?
Dec 04 15:44:10 <marix> i believe so
Dec 04 15:44:33 <marix> i think thats why people were so shocked to see it working so well
Dec 04 15:45:13 <blau> so if theres an update, it could conceivably force all the phones ot be stuck the way they r with no way to fix it
Dec 04 15:45:48 <gfindster_dev> any good apps available for trying out?
Dec 04 15:45:48 <vol> sans crap?
Dec 04 15:46:01 <vol> gfindster_dev: check the marketplace, there's a bazillion
Dec 04 15:46:26 <vol> I do love the bubble level app, just to show off to people that my phone DOUBLES AS A BUBBLE LEVEL
Dec 04 15:46:38 <gfindster_dev> i mean anyone that people recommend, since there are many
Dec 04 15:46:42 <vol> it's the simple things ^_^
Dec 04 15:46:49 <vol> Uh, I use budget droid quite a bit
Dec 04 15:46:57 <anno^da_> Is it normal that the Home Activity is often going down after the end of a call
Dec 04 15:47:09 <vol> probably not?
Dec 04 15:47:20 <anno^da_> (well not normal but a known problem :) )
Dec 04 15:47:30 <marix> is droidsans.com supposed to be in arabic?
Dec 04 15:47:42 <gfindster_dev> ok thanks
Dec 04 15:49:24 <Leeds> marix: thai, isn't it?
Dec 04 15:49:49 <Leeds> anno^da_: 'going down'?
Dec 04 15:50:12 <marix> leeds,  i dunno it displays awful wonky in firefox
Dec 04 15:50:43 <Leeds> you can't read Thai?  it's certainly not Arabic, anyway
Dec 04 15:51:14 <blau> dgAway
Dec 04 15:51:19 <marix> i can sure as shit eat it though
Dec 04 15:51:20 <anno^da_> Leeds: well it was crashing right after the call
Dec 04 15:51:26 <anno^da_> two times in a row now.
Dec 04 15:51:48 <anno^da_> I had to Force Close it.
Dec 04 15:51:59 <blau> not normal dude
Dec 04 15:52:07 <Leeds> I find it's often pretty slow to load (and I blame romainguy), but I've never had to force close it
Dec 04 15:52:22 <anno^da_> :-)
Dec 04 15:52:30 <gfindster_dev> how many developers in here?
Dec 04 15:52:44 <marix> 14.5
Dec 04 15:52:49 <Leeds> 247
Dec 04 15:52:50 <anno^da_> The only thing that gets slow sometimes is the slide out menue.
Dec 04 15:52:53 <Disconnect> 9
Dec 04 15:52:58 <anno^da_> It is a bit laggy.
Dec 04 15:53:07 <Leeds> just one - infobot
Dec 04 15:53:12 <gfindster_dev> too many ....
Dec 04 15:53:16 <marix> infobot,  whats up?
Dec 04 15:53:18 <infobot> nothing much mate, you ?
Dec 04 15:53:40 <marix> infobot,  tell me a story.
Dec 04 15:53:50 <gfindster_dev> yea buddy
Dec 04 15:53:55 <Leeds> infobot france
Dec 04 15:53:55 <infobot> i heard france is the father of the skiff cluster, or a country in Europe, or spending huge amounts of time on handhelds.org. see also: ~praise france
Dec 04 15:54:07 <gfindster_dev> cool
Dec 04 15:54:09 <Disconnect> 8gb microsd $18 http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=41834600
Dec 04 15:54:10 <marix> infobot g1
Dec 04 15:54:11 <infobot> methinks g1 is a phone for Java Architects
Dec 04 15:54:25 <gfindster_dev> why do u say that
Dec 04 15:54:29 <Leeds> infobot: Leeds
Dec 04 15:54:30 <infobot> [leeds] a bloke called Richard making bras in Hong Kong, or a bloke called Richard, or a rubbish footie team, or better than Google, or a Solaris freeware and Perl expert, or a regexp expert, or been fired from the bra company, or not my problem, or a very sociable guy, or a sexy alian, or the manual, or a whining butthead
Dec 04 15:55:02 <marix> how do you add entries?
Dec 04 15:55:15 <Leeds> infobot connectbot is a cool ssh client for android
Dec 04 15:55:16 <infobot> okay, Leeds
Dec 04 15:55:28 <Leeds> infobot tell marix about help
Dec 04 15:55:29 <marix> infobot connectbot
Dec 04 15:55:30 <infobot> i heard connectbot is a cool ssh client for android
Dec 04 15:55:51 <Leeds> infobot connectbot is also available in the Android Market
Dec 04 15:55:52 <infobot> okay, Leeds
Dec 04 15:56:00 <Leeds> infobot: connectbot
Dec 04 15:56:01 <infobot> rumour has it, connectbot is a cool ssh client for android, or available in the Android Market
Dec 04 15:56:09 <Leeds> etc.
Dec 04 15:56:14 <marix> n33t!
Dec 04 15:57:21 <marix> infobot enkin
Dec 04 15:58:33 <Leeds> infobot: jbq
Dec 04 15:58:52 * jbq doesn't exist
Dec 04 15:59:14 <Leeds> infobot jbq doesn't exist
Dec 04 15:59:46 <Leeds> infobot jbq is a figment of someone's deranged imagination
Dec 04 15:59:47 <infobot> okay, Leeds
Dec 04 16:01:59 <marix> infobot leeds is not a sexy alian
Dec 04 16:02:00 <infobot> ...but leeds is already something else...
Dec 04 16:04:26 <morrildl> infobot infobot doesn't exist
Dec 04 16:04:42 <morrildl> infobot: infobot
Dec 04 16:04:43 <infobot> morrildl, I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/), or updated sources at http://infobot.sf.net/, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire, or awesome.
Dec 04 16:05:01 * morrildl sighs
Dec 04 16:05:02 <marix> infobot, forget about leeds
Dec 04 16:05:03 <infobot> i didn't have anything called 'about leeds' to forget, marix
Dec 04 16:05:12 <marix> infobot forget leeds
Dec 04 16:05:13 <infobot> i forgot leeds, marix
Dec 04 16:05:15 * morrildl was hoping for a singularity to form
Dec 04 16:05:20 <marix> infobot leeds
Dec 04 16:05:41 <Phlogi> I just connected to my own setup AP (on laptop) with the g1, the connection can be established, but the browser does not find any website
Dec 04 16:05:46 <anno^da_> infobot android
Dec 04 16:05:47 <infobot> [android] an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible
Dec 04 16:09:45 <Phlogi> hmm maybe its a dns issue
Dec 04 16:10:58 <Disconnect> Phlogi: do you have NAT running?
Dec 04 16:11:02 <Phlogi> but strange it always worked with other machines
Dec 04 16:11:16 <Leeds> marix: why did you wipe my record???
Dec 04 16:11:31 <Phlogi> Disconnect: hmm you mean with iptables on my laptop? Apart from that my router has NAT jep...
Dec 04 16:11:41 <Leeds> that bot is not just on this channel... that record goes back for many years
Dec 04 16:11:45 <marix> to see if it would work
Dec 04 16:11:57 <Leeds> not cool, dude
Dec 04 16:11:58 <Disconnect> you said the AP is on the laptop
Dec 04 16:12:12 <Phlogi> yes I created it with some commands (linux machine)
Dec 04 16:12:14 <marix> infobot leeds is a bloke called Richard making bras in Hong Kong, or a bloke called Richard, or a rubbish footie team, or better than Google, or a Solaris freeware and Perl expert, or a regexp expert, or been fired from the bra company, or not my problem, or a very sociable guy, or a sexy alian, or the manual, or a whining butthead
Dec 04 16:12:15 <infobot> marix: okay
Dec 04 16:12:22 <marix> all fixed!
Dec 04 16:12:29 <Leeds> not quite, but thanks anyway
Dec 04 16:12:45 <marix> infobot forget leeds
Dec 04 16:12:46 <infobot> marix: i forgot leeds
Dec 04 16:12:57 <Phlogi> thats how I create it: http://pastebin.com/d530a742e
Dec 04 16:12:58 <Leeds> infobot: ignore marix
Dec 04 16:13:00 * infobot sticks her fingers in her ears.  "La, la, la!  I can't hear you, marix!"
Dec 04 16:13:00 <Disconnect> marix: gotta do "leeds is a bloke..etc" "leeds is also a bloke called".. etc etc. once for each section
Dec 04 16:13:16 <Leeds> infobot: botsnack
Dec 04 16:13:16 <infobot> aw, gee, Leeds
Dec 04 16:13:28 <marix> infobot leeds is a bloke called Richard making bras in Hong Kong
Dec 04 16:13:29 <infobot> okay, marix
Dec 04 16:13:45 <marix> infobot leeds is a bloke called Richard
Dec 04 16:13:47 <infobot> ...but leeds is already something else...
Dec 04 16:14:02 <Leeds> infobot leeds is also a block called Richard
Dec 04 16:14:03 <infobot> Leeds: okay
Dec 04 16:14:14 <Leeds> and for the record, it responds to /msg - no need to clog the channel
Dec 04 16:14:16 <Phlogi> i typed in the wep key as text not hex :D
Dec 04 16:14:25 <marix> kk
Dec 04 16:14:39 <marix> you arn't gonna smite me or anything are you?
Dec 04 16:15:04 <marix> should i fix the spelling error in alien?
Dec 04 16:15:42 <Leeds> I don't have smiting powers in this channel :-)
Dec 04 16:18:32 <Phlogi> hmm still does not work
Dec 04 16:19:12 <Leeds> for what it's worth, by the way, most of the things infobot says about me are true :-)
Dec 04 16:20:11 <marix> hongkong bra's and all?
Dec 04 16:20:20 <Leeds> those bits are true, yes
Dec 04 16:20:40 <marix> hmm
Dec 04 16:20:56 <Leeds> I am in Hong Kong, and I did get fired from the bra company
Dec 04 16:21:13 <gfindster_dev> testt
Dec 04 16:22:13 <Phlogi> I tried with open network now... but still no success... I can see how the phone gets the ip adress on my laptop...
Dec 04 16:24:52 <Phlogi> does the phone does IEEE 802.11g?
Dec 04 16:38:38 <Leeds> Phlogi: yes
Dec 04 16:38:55 <Phlogi> hmm why does it not work then... thats weird
Dec 04 16:39:10 <Phlogi> it says its connected.. but I can't go to any website nor google maps
Dec 04 16:41:40 <Phlogi> is there a way to see the dns information of the connection?
Dec 04 16:42:28 <Decavolt> Settiings -> WiFi Settings
Dec 04 16:43:04 <Phlogi> and then?
Dec 04 16:43:18 <Phlogi> it does not show :p
Dec 04 16:43:50 <Decavolt> do you want your IP address, or DNS info for DHCP?
Dec 04 16:44:04 <blau> people have made some ridiculous ui's
Dec 04 16:44:45 <blau> cashflow is awful
Dec 04 16:44:53 <blau> they removed the title bar
Dec 04 16:44:53 <Phlogi> Decavolt: the second
Dec 04 16:45:10 <blau> theres 2 pushable non buttons
Dec 04 16:45:17 <Phlogi> I want to debug the connection actually
Dec 04 16:45:19 <blau> they have a section with black on dark green
Dec 04 16:45:30 <Decavolt> Phlogi: have you looked at the menus at all? Settings -> Wifi Settings. Push Menu, go to Advanced. It's all right there.
Dec 04 16:46:15 <Phlogi> Decavolt: yes, there I can only do some IP settings... three is no information there at all
Dec 04 16:47:02 <Decavolt> No, IP address, gateway, netmask and two DNS listings are there. What else do you want?
Dec 04 16:47:37 <Phlogi> Decavolt: I want to see what dns information my phone received and uses after it has connected to a network, and that information is not available
Dec 04 16:48:02 <Decavolt> Phlogi: of ypi
Dec 04 16:48:14 <Phlogi> Decavolt: what?
Dec 04 16:48:18 <Decavolt> (typo)
Dec 04 16:48:55 <Decavolt> if you're connecting to wifi via DHCP, you're connection will use whatever DNS servers your router is using. You can set specific DNS servers (different) in the menu I mentioned above.
Dec 04 16:48:56 <Phlogi> I have no idea why the connection does not work... so I guessed its maybe a dns issue...
Dec 04 16:49:10 <Phlogi> Decavolt: Yes I know
Dec 04 16:49:12 <Decavolt> is this your own wifi router?
Dec 04 16:49:18 <Phlogi> Decavolt: its my laptop
Dec 04 16:49:34 <Decavolt> as a host for the phoen?
Dec 04 16:49:37 <Decavolt> *phone
Dec 04 16:49:54 <Phlogi> exactly. Its not the first time I'm doing this and I'm actualy familiar with it
Dec 04 16:50:10 <Phlogi> so my dhcp server is configured...
Dec 04 16:50:45 <Decavolt> first time or not, what other info are you looking for? The IP settings pane on the G1 shows you everything.
Dec 04 16:51:09 <Phlogi> Decavolt: subnet mask, dns servers and so on
Dec 04 16:51:18 <Decavolt> DNS servers are there.
Dec 04 16:51:21 <Phlogi> maybe even mac adress of router
Dec 04 16:51:26 <Phlogi> Decavolt: here not!
Dec 04 16:51:56 <Phlogi> Decavolt: where exactly? That advanced thing is not to get the dns server but to set everything statically!
Dec 04 16:52:01 <Phlogi> as far as I understand it
Dec 04 16:52:14 <Phlogi> i can get inofmarion about connection when I click on the wifi
Dec 04 16:52:26 <Phlogi> but says only the essid and ip adress and signal strength
Dec 04 16:52:54 <Decavolt> DNS info, when using DHCP, defaults to whatever your router is set to. In other words, it's NOT filled in on the client unless you specify alternate addresses.
Dec 04 16:53:06 <Decavolt> so check your router (the laptop) if you want to know what DNS servers it's using
Dec 04 16:54:01 <Decavolt> and your subnet is going to be 255.255.255.0 unless you've done something insane to the network you've setup
Dec 04 16:54:05 <Phlogi> it works now :D
Dec 04 16:54:15 <Phlogi> it was the dns server
Dec 04 16:54:20 <Phlogi> on my config :)
Dec 04 16:54:22 <Decavolt> amazing!
Dec 04 16:54:39 <Phlogi> Decavolt: when I could have checked that on the phone, it saved me time :p
Dec 04 16:54:41 <Phlogi> gg
Dec 04 16:54:46 <Phlogi> Decavolt: thanks anyway
Dec 04 16:55:00 <Phlogi> fine, now I have to leave :D
Dec 04 16:55:01 <blau> anyone use dgAway or dgAlert on their g1?
Dec 04 16:55:02 <Phlogi> later
Dec 04 16:55:05 <Decavolt> reading what I wrote the first time would have saved you time as well. :P
Dec 04 16:55:51 <blau> lol i just tried to call the emulator from my real phone :(
Dec 04 16:57:21 <meyou> blau-MikeDG: whats it do?
Dec 04 16:58:22 <blau-MikeDG> dgAlert, turns the screen on when u get a SMS and lets you set a cusotm vibration for SMS messages
Dec 04 16:58:52 <blau-MikeDG> dgAway, lets you forward SMS and call alerts to a number you specifiy, or set an auto response to calls or sMS if you are in a meeting or unavailable
Dec 04 16:59:16 <blau-MikeDG> it also lets you send a quick SMS reply if you decline or miss a call
Dec 04 17:08:38 <anno^da_> What is the maximum download rate with 3G (UMTS/HSDPA) that the G1 is capable of? (is it possible to get a max of 7,2 Mbit with the G1?)
Dec 04 17:09:09 <marix> anno^da_  if you were sitting ontop of the tower...
Dec 04 17:09:22 <marix> i'd expect speeds of 3-5
Dec 04 17:09:42 <RyeBrye> anno^da_ - I hear it's pretty fast. Google switched their entire data links for their search servers to using a bank of G1's tethered over USB because it was so fast...
Dec 04 17:09:46 <RyeBrye> ;)
Dec 04 17:09:48 <anno^da_> ;) Well I know. I'm just interested if the device itself is capable of the maximum speed.
Dec 04 17:10:09 <anno^da_> RyeBrye: ;)
Dec 04 17:10:18 <marix> ;)
Dec 04 17:10:26 <marix> creepy ass wink
Dec 04 17:10:27 <RyeBrye> There are a few speed test apps on the market
Dec 04 17:10:38 <RyeBrye> I'm in an EDGE area, so I can't really help
Dec 04 17:10:44 <marix> ditto
Dec 04 17:11:02 <marix> btw,  anyone know when the KC market will go 3g?
Dec 04 17:11:08 <easwar> Where can we find out more about Android,everything short of the code?
Dec 04 17:11:17 <marix> www.android.com
Dec 04 17:16:32 <bgupta> Hey all is has anyone "jailbroken" a b30+ build yet??
Dec 04 17:17:03 <elbac> Anyone notice that the G1 and the Blackberry charges have the same plug????
Dec 04 17:17:12 <elbac> And if so, anyone done that?
Dec 04 17:17:24 <bgupta> Chargers work
Dec 04 17:17:49 <bgupta> it's a standard miniusb charge cable
Dec 04 17:17:55 <elbac> awesome, thanks.
Dec 04 17:18:59 <bgupta> Hey I have a b30 upgrade that accidentily got started.. I want to break out of it and cancel the upgrade... I heard that their might be a way to do it.. anyone have any links?
Dec 04 17:20:16 <Nafai> Is there any way of creating new widgets yet?
Dec 04 17:22:10 <blau-MikeDG> nope
Dec 04 17:23:13 <andyross> Probably not strictly true.  The source for the existing ones is there, so you could study and emulate.  Probably can't add yourself to the registry or whatnot though.  You'd have to spawn it some other way.
Dec 04 17:23:30 <jasta> bgupta: i dont recommend you interrupt a firmware update
Dec 04 17:26:16 <bgupta> jasta: I have already yanked the battery.... It keeps trying to restart the firmware update everytime I put the battery back in. The phone loses 90% of it's coolness factor if it can't be jailbroken... chances are if I can't get this interrupted I'll switch to a jailbroken iPhone. I am willing to risk brickification to keep b29
Dec 04 17:26:24 <RyeBrye> bgupta - it will continue to do that
Dec 04 17:27:09 <Lenolium> bgupta: Didn't you install the sudo/su utility while you had root?
Dec 04 17:27:11 <RyeBrye> bgupta - you need to put the full update.zip for rc29 on your sdcard and then boot with that holding down power + home and then hit alt+L alt+S to get ti to use the SD card one - this might work
Dec 04 17:27:32 <blau-MikeDG> now that i can back up SMS, i think its time for everyone to bitch at tmobile for not being able to do it
Dec 04 17:27:34 <bgupta> No, I was busy with work... didn't get a chance to do the research on what was required
Dec 04 17:27:38 <blau-MikeDG> so i can sell them my solution!
Dec 04 17:28:06 <bgupta> RyeBrye: Where can I get that?
Dec 04 17:30:50 <bgupta> http://www.mobilewhack.com/how-to-manually-upgrade-g1-firmware-to-rc29/ is this the procedure?
Dec 04 17:31:05 <michaelnovakjr> blau-MikeDG: i dont think they'll need to buy the solution :)
Dec 04 17:31:17 <blau-MikeDG> why not?
Dec 04 17:31:22 <blau-MikeDG> they dont have one
Dec 04 17:31:26 <michaelnovakjr> i'm sure they can do it :)
Dec 04 17:31:58 <blau-MikeDG> you have too much faith buddy
Dec 04 17:33:58 <RyeBrye> bgupta - yes, that's the procedure, and it has the links
Dec 04 17:34:17 <RyeBrye> bgupta - I'm not sure if it will let you do it while your phone is trying to use the one from the /cache or not - but it's at least worth a shot
Dec 04 17:35:00 <bgupta> Links are broken.... will I be able to downgrade? IE: Could I let it jsut finish rc30 and then do the sdcard thing to downgrade?
Dec 04 17:35:57 <bgupta> Found another plase with the files.
Dec 04 17:35:59 <bgupta> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=OTA_Updates
Dec 04 17:37:11 <bgupta> BTW everytime I have broken out is while it is still verifying the update...
Dec 04 17:37:58 <snadge> my phone keeps prompting me to update :/
Dec 04 17:38:31 <bgupta> Be careful that prompt can be tricky and come up just as you are pressing the screen to do something else
Dec 04 17:38:39 * jasta is going to hack the Updater to pester me only once daily
Dec 04 17:39:17 <jsharkey> hmm if you have root, could you just add a hosts entry so it doesnt checkin for updates?
Dec 04 17:40:22 <bgupta> soemone out to build an update server that says it's at rc29... and then hack hosts table.. problem is prolly uses ssl certs for id.
Dec 04 17:41:32 <bgupta> signed-kila-ota-115247-prereq.TC4-RC19_RC28.ZIP is the good one, yeah?
Dec 04 17:41:36 <jsharkey> i think the handshake process is involved, with an actual two-way discussion, which would be harder to implement
Dec 04 17:46:33 <snadge> if i update to JF's RC30, will it stop prompting me to update?
Dec 04 17:47:29 <andyross> Yes
Dec 04 17:48:47 <snadge> im indecisive about doing that or just using official one
Dec 04 17:50:14 <andyross> You can always choose to downgrade to the official version at a later time.  Having installed it, you can never get root back.  I'd say "indecision" argues heavily for using the modded firmware. :)
Dec 04 17:50:53 <blau-MikeDG> grrr
Dec 04 17:52:15 <bgupta> It would probably be a decent bet, that someone somewhere will eventually figure out  how, or leak out how to get root on a b30+ device. Sadly we have no idea when that will be, so go with modded.
Dec 04 17:52:37 <blau-MikeDG> does this ring a bell to anyone fo7jhwarg940109@w.tmomail.net
Dec 04 17:52:46 <snadge> true, i will do that when i get back to australian in a few days
Dec 04 17:53:08 <RyeBrye> bgupta - if you are on RC29 now, you can't downgrade to RC28 regardless
Dec 04 17:53:10 <blau-MikeDG> is that an email address?
Dec 04 17:53:20 <RyeBrye> bgupta - but that one I think should work, eys
Dec 04 17:53:21 <snadge> im using my g1 to irc via ssh.. its a bit fiddly
Dec 04 17:53:46 <Decavolt> it's going to be
Dec 04 17:54:10 <Decavolt> I've never had fast + stable ssh connections  on my G1
Dec 04 17:54:13 <RyeBrye> bgupta - but if it is already seeing files in /cache and using those instead of letting you pick to use the SDcard, you might be screwed - unless you let it verify and then start flashing but then cause it to fail flashing by pulling the battery - but that's pretty dangerous
Dec 04 17:54:24 <Decavolt> especially not for continual connections like IRC
Dec 04 17:54:46 <blau-MikeDG> any suggestions for looking into the inner workings of android to figure out mms stuff
Dec 04 17:54:52 <bgupta> (RyeBrye: acknowledged
Dec 04 17:59:28 <snadge> it seems to be stable/fast
Dec 04 17:59:34 <bgupta> Curious why google is being so restrictive.. In a weird way the iPhone is more open than any android device. (Not necessarily by design mind you).. I was hoping the Android would usher in a whole new era of mobile opens source hackery... I can understand why they want to make the official supported method of app dev "Java", but OTOH locking down is really uncool.
Dec 04 18:00:03 <blau-MikeDG> ur uncool
Dec 04 18:00:08 <Decavolt> snadge: then define "fiddly"
Dec 04 18:00:39 <snadge> its early days yet, you wait and see what competing devices will do for aqndroid
Dec 04 18:01:02 <jbq> bgupta: the key here is that the G1 isn't a Google device, it's a T-Mobile device.
Dec 04 18:01:12 <snadge> small screen and keyboard takes a little getting used to
Dec 04 18:01:23 <michaelnovakjr> bgupta: how could you say the iPhone is more open?
Dec 04 18:01:29 <jasta> bgupta: android itself is not the problem.  the fact that traditional carriers are launching those devices is.  anyone could come along and build an uber hackable android phone if they so chose
Dec 04 18:01:33 <jasta> and launch it independent of the carriers
Dec 04 18:01:43 <jasta> and quite honestly in a year or so i expect we will see things like that
Dec 04 18:01:55 <andyross> bgupta: You're conflating a few different things.  The fact that the phone doesn't have root and isn't user-reflashable is a carrier restriction as much as anything.  And it's annoying.  But the use of Java is unrelated -- you can write native code just fine on the G1, albeit without an official SDK.
Dec 04 18:02:57 <snadge> i really like my g1.. i wanted a smartphone that doesn't run windows.. it delivers ;)
Dec 04 18:03:12 <michaelnovakjr> i have an iPhone and a G1..... the G1 is better
Dec 04 18:03:43 <snadge> it hasn't crashed on me yet, my mates htc titan tytn ii, crashes almost daily
Dec 04 18:04:51 <andyross> For some things.  For others, the iPhone kicks its butt. :(  You wouldn't choose the G1 as a media player, it just doesn't compare.  The browser is a solid #2 behind the iPhone's, but still not as good.  The open SDK is a huge win for developers, but hasn't yet translated into better apps, IMHO.
Dec 04 18:05:22 <snadge> he has had to factory reset it due to bugs/poor performance, numerous times.. to be fair that could be caused by poorly written winmo apps
Dec 04 18:05:38 <andyross> The G1 wins on anything text related (the iPhone has nothing like ConnectBot, and never will), and the maps integration is better done, IMHO.
Dec 04 18:05:56 <michaelnovakjr> andyross: the iPhone has ssh
Dec 04 18:06:12 <_zippy> ;)
Dec 04 18:06:15 <snadge> i just wish google would add proper navigation support to maps, and offline maps
Dec 04 18:06:52 <an_dev> does anybody know how to configure the emulator's back key with some of the click event of my application
Dec 04 18:06:58 <andyross> But then if you want to give powerpoint presentations and review word documents, you want to chuck both and go with a WinMo brick.  You pay your money and make your choice.  (And no, "having ssh" isn't nearly the same thing as having an 80x24 terminal emulator with a hardware keyboard)
Dec 04 18:07:04 <snadge> it blows having to manually scroll and step through the directions
Dec 04 18:07:08 <blau-MikeDG> i like g1 browser better than iphone
Dec 04 18:07:11 <blau-MikeDG> it scrolls nicer
Dec 04 18:07:26 <RyeBrye> copy + paste
Dec 04 18:07:39 <andyross> Yeah, I fit that under "anything text related".
Dec 04 18:07:44 <blau-MikeDG> copy/paste sucks on android too
Dec 04 18:07:47 <bgupta> andyross: connectbot is cool..
Dec 04 18:07:54 <RyeBrye> yeah, but it will get better soon
Dec 04 18:08:15 <michaelnovakjr> i wasn't comparing ssh, simply said it has it :)
Dec 04 18:08:21 <blau-MikeDG> are there any plans for the "you have your finger covering the screen, so lets show you what you are pressing" feature
Dec 04 18:08:29 <bgupta> andyross: My understand is if we want to install gnu tool (written in C vs. java) we need root
Dec 04 18:08:38 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Dec 04 18:08:42 <bgupta> gnu tools that is
Dec 04 18:09:01 <snadge> has andreoid been ported to openmoko?
Dec 04 18:09:09 <blau-MikeDG> i believe so
Dec 04 18:09:12 <blau-MikeDG> but no keyboard is a killer
Dec 04 18:09:30 <bgupta> ack... what I meant to say is "My understanding is that if we want to install gnu tools, you would need root.
Dec 04 18:09:32 <jbq> bgupta: I think that any app can install and run its own executables. No need to have root for that.
Dec 04 18:09:34 <andyross> No.  JNI works fine from userspace applications.  The trick is to write out your shared library at runtime.  The "neocore" demo in the market does that, and I have a working OpenGL rig.
Dec 04 18:09:55 <bgupta> I see
Dec 04 18:10:20 <andyross> And installing a working shell environment can also be done without root, although it's a huge pain (not much writable space for executables on the phone).
Dec 04 18:10:45 <snadge> how does one send ALT using connectbot? (no its not alt)
Dec 04 18:11:16 <fadden> Android on OpenMoko: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Android
Dec 04 18:11:33 <fadden> Android on Noka N810: http://nthcode.com/pubs/porting-android-to-a-new-device.html
Dec 04 18:11:34 <florz> hrm ... by any chance, is there possibly a known bug in the G1 RC29 that prevents it from ringing? It's not "google-activated", it puts the incoming calls into the call log, and outgoing calls work fine ...
Dec 04 18:11:52 <andyross> You don't send alt, it's a modifier on traditional terminals.  And I don't know, but almost all apps that interpret it will respond to ESC-key as "Alt-key"
Dec 04 18:12:47 <blau-MikeDG> oh no someone has a problem with my app :(
Dec 04 18:14:30 <Phlogi> microSDHC si the card to use with the g1 right?
Dec 04 18:14:36 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Dec 04 18:14:57 <luok> snadge: i think left alt works as alt
Dec 04 18:15:20 <bgupta> Or plain microSD if you don't need more than 2GB capacity.
Dec 04 18:18:19 <Phlogi> bgupta: ok thanks, I'll buy a 16GB
Dec 04 18:18:52 <blau-MikeDG> grrrr i didnt test good enough
Dec 04 18:18:54 <snadge> in bitchx (irc client) you can use alt-n to switch between windows. thankfully you can also use esc, but double tap on trackball is annoying
Dec 04 18:18:56 <bgupta> OK before I brick this thing.. anyone want to tell me how to inturrupt this firmware update?
Dec 04 18:19:27 <luok> snadge: irssi ftw
Dec 04 18:19:34 <blau-MikeDG> cause the stupid emulator functions differently
Dec 04 18:20:01 <luok> its like bitchx but without all the bugs
Dec 04 18:20:13 <blau-MikeDG> and Long doesnt like strings with + in them, grrr
Dec 04 18:20:33 <vol> Anyone who's done native c dev on android, have you been able to link against the PNG libraries? If so, mind talking to me? We want to use native PNG libraries instead of including our own
Dec 04 18:23:50 <andyross> vol: I haven't, but it seems like libpng is included inside libsgl.so -- have you tried linking to that?
Dec 04 18:24:23 <vol> I'll check that next. I haven't been doing this, my coworker has, he asked me to ask on here if anyone has had success :P
Dec 04 18:25:04 <bgupta> OK, I may have found a loophole... seems that after rc30 installs if you keep hitting Alt-S it prevents the device from rebooting. and let's you into the real recovery console. at which point you can do the install from SD. Fingers crossed, trying to reboot after doing the sdcard update to rc29.. (From an RC30 that hadn't been rebooted yet)
Dec 04 18:28:00 <marix> im suprised we havn't seen a new rc released since 30
Dec 04 18:28:13 <marix> both 29 and 30 came out suepr quick
Dec 04 18:28:24 <marix> now nothing...
Dec 04 18:29:21 <jbq> marix: no bugs important enough to justify an incremental fix.
Dec 04 18:30:40 <Phlogi> now a good question: Where do I insert the flash card on the g1? Is there an online manual for the phone?
Dec 04 18:31:16 <fadden> Phlogi: the SD card?
Dec 04 18:31:17 <bgupta> Little tab to the right of the keypad..
Dec 04 18:31:21 <Nafai> Is there an adapter that allows you to use headphones and a charger at the same time?
Dec 04 18:31:29 <fadden> Open keyboard, pry open door in bottom right.
Dec 04 18:31:32 <luok> Phlogi: http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm30234.pdf
Dec 04 18:31:42 <fadden> Grow long fingernails or use a paperclip to eject existing card, if any.
Dec 04 18:32:12 <luok> hehe long fingernail also useful for usb cover
Dec 04 18:32:23 <Phlogi> bgupta: thanks
Dec 04 18:33:57 <bgupta> Woot!! Back on RC29....
Dec 04 18:34:09 <bgupta> lophole worked
Dec 04 18:34:37 <bgupta> as long as you don't reboot you can flash back down to rc29 from rc30
Dec 04 18:34:38 <mza-> did you just downgrade?
Dec 04 18:34:41 <mza-> oh
Dec 04 18:34:43 <mza-> nevermind
Dec 04 18:34:51 <tmzt_> source for the recovery is in recovery.git, isn't it?
Dec 04 18:35:25 <bgupta> mza-: I was stuck in the upgrade loop... and scared it was a lost cause
Dec 04 18:35:40 <mza-> i want rc29:(
Dec 04 18:35:45 <mza-> im one of "those" assholes
Dec 04 18:35:58 <mza-> the g1-hackers list has gotten very interesting today:)
Dec 04 18:36:07 <bgupta> what happens if you try and do an sdcard install recovery?
Dec 04 18:36:15 <mza-> i haven't tried
Dec 04 18:36:19 <mza-> people say it doesnt work
Dec 04 18:36:54 <bgupta> yeah.. I'd want to see it for myself before.... returning my "defective" phone back to t-mobile.
Dec 04 18:36:59 <Nafai> mza-: Where's this list?
Dec 04 18:37:01 <mza-> lol
Dec 04 18:37:19 <mza-> http://www.telesphoreo.org/pipermail/g1-hackers/
Dec 04 18:38:55 <bgupta> Mmm now that I am back on rc29... anyone have a link to the sudo install instructions?
Dec 04 18:39:15 <mza-> im confused
Dec 04 18:39:20 <mza-> you were on official rc30
Dec 04 18:39:20 <mza-> ?
Dec 04 18:40:01 <bgupta> Yes.. sorta... I accidentally hit upgrade... and the phone rebooted and started to do the cached upgrade.. I imeddiately yanked the battery
Dec 04 18:40:24 <bgupta> at that point I couldn't for the life of me break out of the update.. it jsut wouldn't work
Dec 04 18:40:36 <bgupta> everytime I powered back on it started doing the update
Dec 04 18:41:38 <bgupta> So I got the update.zip for rc29 on an sdcard... tried the home key trick for recovery console, then alt-l to see logging info... turns out the upgrade was the recovery console so that was a dead end
Dec 04 18:42:57 <bgupta> I tried various key combos, and got nothing... but I kept hitting alt-s while the upgrade was running and when the upgrade finished the standard recovery console came up. (Which does let you install from SDCard.)
Dec 04 18:43:27 <bgupta> I tried installeing rc29 over rc30 and so far so good... It worked.
Dec 04 18:43:40 <mza-> that's cool
Dec 04 18:43:47 <bgupta> I suspect the issue is once you have rebooted you are stuck
Dec 04 18:44:09 <mza-> i just wanna tether my n810:(
Dec 04 18:44:50 <bgupta> THe big problem with the n810 is that some laptops have better battery life than it does. So kinda lame there
Dec 04 18:44:59 <mza-> yea
Dec 04 18:45:01 <mza-> but it's tiny
Dec 04 18:45:11 <bgupta> I want a mobile device to have a portable shipstone.
Dec 04 18:45:12 <mza-> i have it mounted in my car
Dec 04 18:47:23 <bgupta> cool
Dec 04 18:48:47 <Disconnect> bgupta: if you got back to rc29 do yourself a favor and hack it now.
Dec 04 18:49:30 <bgupta> Disconnect: Looking for directions now...
Dec 04 18:49:37 <bgupta> have a link handy?
Dec 04 18:49:58 <Disconnect> infobot: keeping root is http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Dec 04 18:49:59 <infobot> okay, Disconnect
Dec 04 18:50:04 <Disconnect> infobot: tell bgupta about keeping root
Dec 04 18:50:05 <Disconnect> :)
Dec 04 18:50:33 <bgupta> :) thank you
Dec 04 19:00:14 <Disconnect> hmm. anyone know if that kogan phone will do us-tmob 3g? (i'm betting no of course, but..)
Dec 04 19:00:23 <Disconnect> wif needs a phone and she likes that form factor
Dec 04 19:05:45 <Disconnect> or has it been debunked already? :)
Dec 04 19:07:13 <blau-MikeDG> disc: i emailed them
Dec 04 19:07:22 <blau-MikeDG> i love the kogan form factor
Dec 04 19:07:28 <blau-MikeDG> although i didnt see a search button :(
Dec 04 19:07:29 <sparkle> bgupta: awesome!
Dec 04 19:07:58 <bgupta> sparkle: Tell me about it! I was really stressing out..
Dec 04 19:08:15 <sparkle> sounds like a very near miss
Dec 04 19:08:49 <bgupta> Is the telnet hack the best way to get a root shell still?
Dec 04 19:08:50 <blau-MikeDG> does android have a "add to contacts" thing
Dec 04 19:08:55 <blau-MikeDG> after you get a phone call?
Dec 04 19:09:03 <blau-MikeDG> like, oh you dont have a contact, would you like to add this number
Dec 04 19:09:26 <KNY_> how are you folks planning on ensuring that your apps still behave decently across multiple devices?
Dec 04 19:09:35 <blau-MikeDG> kny: buy them all!
Dec 04 19:09:42 <KNY> across differing screen resolutions, to be exact
Dec 04 19:09:53 <KNY> blau-MikeDG, you must make more money from your apps than I do ;)
Dec 04 19:10:05 <sparkle> well, keep in mind that anything you type goes to a root console
Dec 04 19:10:10 <blau-MikeDG> i made 40 bucks :P
Dec 04 19:10:12 <sparkle> telnetd makes it an awful lot easier
Dec 04 19:10:21 <KNY> blau-MikeDG, you're twice as rich as I am!
Dec 04 19:10:42 <blau-MikeDG> i win!
Dec 04 19:11:04 <blau-MikeDG> think the kogan would fall back to edge fine? even if 3g didnt work
Dec 04 19:11:12 <Fredbo> ~
Dec 04 19:11:55 <blau-MikeDG> kny: what apps have you worked on
Dec 04 19:12:07 <KNY> blau-MikeDG, Mileage and G1 Central
Dec 04 19:12:56 <blau-MikeDG> nice
Dec 04 19:13:35 <blau-MikeDG> i want to replace the home screen so bad
Dec 04 19:13:55 <marix> replace it w/ what?
Dec 04 19:14:03 <blau-MikeDG> something better!
Dec 04 19:14:15 <marix> more betteR?
Dec 04 19:14:25 <blau-MikeDG> more betterRRR
Dec 04 19:14:37 <KNY> is it september 19th already?
Dec 04 19:14:53 <marix> with all those r's your statement just gained 15 horsepower!
Dec 04 19:16:02 <romainguy> blau-MikeDG: you're welcome to write a new Home screen :)
Dec 04 19:16:11 <romainguy> there's even sample code to show you how :)
Dec 04 19:16:26 <marix> a more betterrr one?
Dec 04 19:16:36 <blau-MikeDG> but i thought you couldnt make the new screen the default one?
Dec 04 19:16:41 <blau-MikeDG> or did i think wrong
Dec 04 19:16:55 <marix> romainguy,  is it true that the neocore demo wasn't written in java?
Dec 04 19:17:19 <romainguy> I don't know, look at the apl
Dec 04 19:17:21 <romainguy> apk
Dec 04 19:17:25 <romainguy> or ask the authors
Dec 04 19:18:07 <marix> i though you developed all android applications currently on the market, i guess someone lied to me...
Dec 04 19:18:07 <blau-MikeDG> romain: where the sample code?
Dec 04 19:19:00 <sparkle> hey bgupta - sent you a pm
Dec 04 19:19:15 <Disconnect> anyone wanna know where tmob g1 is probably coming next? :) the bootloader lists a bunch of TM* (TMUK etc) countries. CZ? in luck. HR? got it. SK? congrats. MK? no idea who you are, but merry christmas.
Dec 04 19:19:21 <romainguy> blau-MikeDG: in the SDK, in the samples/ directory :)
Dec 04 19:19:37 <blau-MikeDG> omg you so smart!
Dec 04 19:19:55 <marix> mk,  you know... mortal kombatia!
Dec 04 19:20:12 <blau-MikeDG> so how do i get back the default homescreen if i select use by default for this action?
Dec 04 19:20:15 <sparkle> Disconnect: macedonia?
Dec 04 19:20:28 <romainguy> blau-MikeDG: uninstall it or boot in safe mode
Dec 04 19:20:35 <romainguy> (press menu during boot)
Dec 04 19:20:49 <blau-MikeDG> ok thanks buckaroo
Dec 04 19:20:56 <blau-MikeDG> romainguy is my hero
Dec 04 19:21:02 <marix> president scorpion wrote a letter to tmobile.  all it said was " Get OVER Here!!!"  thats all it took.
Dec 04 19:21:03 <Disconnect> wow once you "use by default" the only way to undo that is to uninstall the app? guess i shouldn't say "browser" for youtube links if i ever want to see youtube again :(
Dec 04 19:21:30 <romainguy> Disconnect: you can also wipe your data :)
Dec 04 19:21:40 <marix> always an option
Dec 04 19:21:45 <Disconnect> sweet. esp since i can't back it up first.
Dec 04 19:22:01 <andyross> marix: yes, neocore is a native application.  The .apk file contains the relevant shared library as a raw resource.
Dec 04 19:22:04 <romainguy> blau-MikeDG: I also invite you to read the source code of the current Home screen; there are tons of tiny details that the Home screen needs to take care of
Dec 04 19:22:10 <jbq> Disconnect: actually, you can reset that in the "manage applications" settings panel.
Dec 04 19:22:18 <romainguy> thanks jbq :)
Dec 04 19:22:21 <Phlogi> I've got a phone with android version rc30, so I can't install any other bootloader or android right?
Dec 04 19:22:23 <Disconnect> thats much better :)
Dec 04 19:22:29 <Disconnect> Phlogi: yep
Dec 04 19:22:48 <marix> phlogi,  not yet anyway
Dec 04 19:22:49 <Phlogi> Disconnect: what disadvantages do I have?
Dec 04 19:22:54 <blau-MikeDG> so are those little details, the likely reason there are no home screens in the market
Dec 04 19:23:15 <Phlogi> furthermore, why do they create a free system but try to cut down the freedom of the user on the phone?
Dec 04 19:23:20 <romainguy> blau-MikeDG: maybe people are just happy with the current Home screen?
Dec 04 19:23:39 <Disconnect> Phlogi: basically you can't bang on the platform. or on any google apps. you can only work inside the sdk ('bang on' includes installing things other people have done in that space)
Dec 04 19:23:44 <marix> phlogi we need a #androidsoapbox for that discussion
Dec 04 19:24:03 <Disconnect> romainguy: i'd happily trade my entire cache partition for a home app that loaded in under 15 seconds when people ask to see my phone :/
Dec 04 19:24:05 <Phlogi> a p box?
Dec 04 19:24:10 <Phlogi> marix: ?
Dec 04 19:24:23 <romainguy> Disconnect: I still cannot reproduce your issue, but I welcome patches :)
Dec 04 19:24:27 <Phlogi> hmm yes ok, so basically it was tmobiles idea to not let root access to users?
Dec 04 19:24:38 <romainguy> Disconnect: alternatively, you can install the Home screen from the SDL :)
Dec 04 19:24:39 <romainguy> SDK
Dec 04 19:24:41 <Disconnect> romainguy: its not just my issue.
Dec 04 19:25:04 <vol> ha
Dec 04 19:25:07 <Disconnect> hmm. thats a thought. i'm hoping to get time to start rolling my own images this weekend (emu or device, haven't had time in general)
Dec 04 19:26:14 <DarkriftX> plusminus_: i take it you dont need any beta testers for the us?
Dec 04 19:27:47 <Disconnect> Phlogi: it was google's idea. don't let them tell you otherwise :) they can handwave about bootloader/reflash access but at the end of the day, they designed a security system that only works if the user's don't have system access.
Dec 04 19:27:58 <Disconnect> er, users
Dec 04 19:31:47 <Phlogi> Disconnect: hmm yes... but it sucks... or aren't there any big things I'm missing without a "freed/hacked" phone?
Dec 04 19:32:39 <marix> anyone else not realize that the shopsavvy barcode scanner needs to be held across the barcode?  i spent 30 minutes trying to swipe barcodes before i accidently turned it the right way
Dec 04 19:32:42 <Disconnect> right now, autorotate and such. move web/appstore/streetview cache to /cache or sd card, install apps to sd card, bluetooth tethering (my project, although i've had to ignore it this week and its got some speed issues) etc.
Dec 04 19:32:54 <Disconnect> marix: i looked at the line it draws
Dec 04 19:33:34 <marix> disconnect,  it looked like the red laser,  same as they use in the grocery store
Dec 04 19:33:39 <marix> thats what threw me off
Dec 04 19:33:48 <Disconnect> i guess you could look at that line as a scanner-style swiper but i thought back to my long-vanished days in retail (when scanners used a straight line no less :) instead of the ### pattern) and ran the red line right across the barcode
Dec 04 19:34:28 <marix> anyway,  long story short,  that app works amazingly well at grabbing barcodes
Dec 04 19:34:50 <Disconnect> heh
Dec 04 19:34:50 <blau-MikeDG> autorotate is lame
Dec 04 19:34:56 <blau-MikeDG> iphone doesnt even do it everywhere
Dec 04 19:35:16 <Disconnect> autorotate is a killer app for some people. i didn't bother but..
Dec 04 19:35:27 <marix> blau-mikedg it does get abit annoying,  try playing amazed,  it restarts teh game if you tilt it to far
Dec 04 19:35:43 <Disconnect> hahaha thats awesome
Dec 04 19:35:46 <blau-MikeDG> lol
Dec 04 19:36:51 <marix> amazed could use some physics in it,  if you get the right angle you can pixel by pixel push that ball around
Dec 04 19:37:02 <vol> hah yeah
Dec 04 19:37:24 <blau-MikeDG> i was gonna work on a game that tells up to flip or spin the phone
Dec 04 19:37:27 <blau-MikeDG> quickly
Dec 04 19:38:26 <mrios> Hi everyone!!! Do you know how can I do a simple layout with four tabs on the top using xml . Tried to look for code in Google but neither of the ones I found worked. Thanks!
Dec 04 19:38:48 <marix> it would probably work ok,  but,  like the wii,  if you figure out what the accelerometer wants you can fake it into doing whatever without all the over teh top movements
Dec 04 19:39:11 <marix> like baseball,  sure you can stand there like a douche,  but if you just rotate teh controller it works just as well
Dec 04 19:40:41 * andyross kinda thought "standing there like a douche" was, y'know, the game.  I mean, hell, why not just hack the console to record the game result and not play it at all.  Or turn it off and lie to your friends to make them *think* you played? :)
Dec 04 19:42:25 <marix> andyross,  i had a bad experience with the wii, perhaps i'm biased
Dec 04 19:42:46 * andyross doesn't own a game console.
Dec 04 19:46:57 <marix> i bet back when irc was brand new,  that 3rd person shit was an amazing feature.
Dec 04 19:47:04 <vol> Argh, brain fart. I'm calling getAllProviders on my LocationManager, and I'm getting an empty list. Did the new emulator get rid of providers?
Dec 04 19:48:23 <blau-MikeDG>  amazing shit this!
Dec 04 19:49:18 * andyross got used to emotes while living a life as a MUD addict in college long ago.
Dec 04 19:51:08 <marix> i have yet to beat the first level in deflektor :(
Dec 04 19:51:21 <vol> argh, what the hell.
Dec 04 19:51:59 <vol> Seriously, can anyone tell me why LocationManager.getAllProviders returns a null list, and I get an error if I try to request updates by passing LocationManager.GPS_PROVIDER
Dec 04 19:56:18 <vol> Ok, it's because I was using a custom data directory. Hmm.
Dec 04 20:01:56 <marix> vol,  have you tried it without a custom data directory?
Dec 04 20:02:05 <luok> hm i wish sms would keep retrying even after being placed in "undelivered messages"
Dec 04 20:02:06 <marix> thats the hangup i ran it to a while ago
Dec 04 20:02:36 <luok> messages just sit there even when connection comes back and have to all be manually re-sent
Dec 04 20:02:46 <Damm> meh
Dec 04 20:03:00 <Damm> i wish there was like an irc channel I could find for F5 Engineers and users who use the friggen bigips
Dec 04 20:03:22 <marix> i need something to do for 2 hours till i can go home from work...
Dec 04 20:03:27 <marix> any suggestions>
Dec 04 20:03:30 <marix> ?
Dec 04 20:03:35 <luok> youtube
Dec 04 20:03:39 <Disconnect> Damm: i hate our bigip, does that count?
Dec 04 20:03:41 <marix> websensed
Dec 04 20:03:57 <luok> proxy!
Dec 04 20:04:07 <Disconnect> marix: got root?
Dec 04 20:04:10 <sparkle> i hate your bigip too
Dec 04 20:04:11 <marix> well sure
Dec 04 20:04:12 * sparkle laughs
Dec 04 20:04:28 <Disconnect> marix: got xp building boot.img?
Dec 04 20:04:37 <marix> luok,  the network guy here is mega security crazy
Dec 04 20:04:40 <Damm> Disconnect, no not really... updating to 9.4.5, and finding out that 9.4.6 is about to get released
Dec 04 20:04:49 <Damm> and tomcat's being psycho on here
Dec 04 20:05:01 <Disconnect> i need a simple set of tests (which won't even break anything except - worst case - temporarily bluetooth) to see how fast the hciattach can be set
Dec 04 20:05:06 <marix> disconnect,  nope
Dec 04 20:05:41 <luok> marix: ah yeah helps to have completely incompetent it dept
Dec 04 20:06:21 <marix> disconnect,  but im not totally helpless if you can give me some direction...
Dec 04 20:06:42 <vol> marix: that's what I just said.
Dec 04 20:07:09 <marix> vol,  oh,  dang jsut a secont too late
Dec 04 20:08:42 <Damm> Disconnect, what kind of speeds are you getting?
Dec 04 20:08:45 <Damm> out of curiosity
Dec 04 20:09:05 <Disconnect> reports are 70-80kb .. so 115200. which, coincidentally, is whats in init.trout.rc for hciattach
Dec 04 20:09:33 <Disconnect> marix: you need the full source tree ready to build (for simplicities sake) or .. hmm. lemme find the wiki page or whatever it was. you can unpack your old boot.img, modify it, and repack it if oyu have a linux box.
Dec 04 20:10:03 <marix> disconnect,  im at work currently,  windows only :(
Dec 04 20:10:04 <blau-MikeDG> Folders!
Dec 04 20:10:27 <Disconnect> probably doable in windows but i'm not going there. :)
Dec 04 20:11:11 <marix> i dont have anything on this machine outside of notepad anyway
Dec 04 20:11:26 <blau-MikeDG> anyone know where in the source, the home app is?
Dec 04 20:13:37 <marix> ryebrye,  i cant stop thinking about UKTOTW!
Dec 04 20:13:41 <bgupta> Got it all setup: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Dec 04 20:14:07 <bgupta> nice that busybox is included in the modded RC30 firmware image
Dec 04 20:14:19 <bgupta> too bad all the symlinks aren't there
Dec 04 20:14:27 <RyeBrye> marix - Yeah, that is one ugly chain :)
Dec 04 20:14:43 <marix> blows my mind
Dec 04 20:15:05 <blau-MikeDG> is there anyway to rename home screen folders?
Dec 04 20:15:25 <Disconnect> i wonder how much farther ahead android would be if they didn't spend man-years reinventing the wheel all over the place and accepted things like busybox.
Dec 04 20:15:30 <blau-MikeDG> found it
Dec 04 20:17:05 <RyeBrye> marix - my sister is in charge of the UKTOTW 'column' on my blog - she got lazy a while ago (as did I) - but I know she has a bit of a backlog of some even more hideous things
Dec 04 20:17:27 <vol> oh this is fucking delightful.
Dec 04 20:17:34 <vol> I can't use my sdcard on the emulator, AND the gps
Dec 04 20:17:44 <vol> no, it's one or the other
Dec 04 20:17:45 <andyross> Nah, the scriptable tools on the box aren't used so much that they represent significant effort.  If you want to ding them for NIHism, bionic should be your target.  It's nice and small, but not *that* much nicer or smaller than uclibc.  And a C library isn't something you just bang out for the hell of it.  They even rewrite ld-linux.so. :)
Dec 04 20:18:12 <jbq> Disconnect: it's not wasted, that allowed us to avoid GPL code in user space.
Dec 04 20:18:13 <vol> why won't the LocationManager effing work when I specify an sdcard?!
Dec 04 20:18:21 <Sembiance> Did everyone see the new android phone from australia? looks nice!!
Dec 04 20:18:22 <vol> how is that in any way related!?!
Dec 04 20:19:21 <Disconnect> jbq: bluez.
Dec 04 20:19:31 <jbq> Disconnect: yeah, and it's a major pain.
Dec 04 20:19:36 <bgupta> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10113308-1.html
Dec 04 20:19:57 <jbq> I wish we could do without GPL and LGPL in user-space entirely.
Dec 04 20:19:59 <andyross> Not sure why GPL userspace code would be a pain, given that you're locked into the license already by the kernel...
Dec 04 20:20:24 <Disconnect> "a major pain" how? tivo can manage it (with way more closed apps than android, and a mix of gpl/lgpl/bsd userspace)
Dec 04 20:20:30 <jbq> andyross: IANAL
Dec 04 20:21:15 <Sembiance> I'm excited about android. if we can get some really killer awesome apps made for it, adoption in the world will go up a shitload
Dec 04 20:21:16 <andyross> The point being I can understand why a proprietary vendor would decide against the GPL as a whole.  But making a distinction between the kernel and userspace for where the GPL is appropriate seems specious.
Dec 04 20:21:18 <d0netsFN> does that new android phone in aus have a compass?
Dec 04 20:21:32 <andyross> that new android phone in aus?
Dec 04 20:21:47 <d0netsFN> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/new-google-android-phone-launches-490775
Dec 04 20:21:50 <d0netsFN> yea is that fake?
Dec 04 20:22:01 <d0netsFN> i saw it had a blackberry logo on it
Dec 04 20:22:12 <bgupta> The question of whether code that is linked to a gp libc, is open.. many people do ship now GPL code that uses glibc, but... It's never really been tested in court. (But if I recall it is the FSF's position that it's fine to link non GPL code against glibc.)
Dec 04 20:22:43 <Disconnect> bgupta: glibc has nothing to do with this.
Dec 04 20:22:51 <bgupta> oh sorry
Dec 04 20:22:56 <marix> ryebrye,  i can't wait
Dec 04 20:23:28 <Disconnect> d0netsFN: bb logo?
Dec 04 20:24:12 <d0netsFN> on the key on the phone
Dec 04 20:24:28 <d0netsFN> lemme find a bigger pic
Dec 04 20:25:14 <d0netsFN> http://apcmag.com/breaking_first_australian_android_phone_revealed.htm
Dec 04 20:25:20 <bgupta> Disconnect: Sorry assumed that the issues with license were because uclibc was GPL like glibc is GPL..
Dec 04 20:25:21 <d0netsFN> doesnt that look like a blackberry logo?
Dec 04 20:26:12 <Disconnect> bgupta: um. glibc is lgpl. but thanks for playing.
Dec 04 20:26:22 <andyross> uclibc is LGPL, which expressly allows linkage against unfree code.
Dec 04 20:26:33 <Disconnect> (and so is uclibc)
Dec 04 20:28:34 <unix_lappy> marix: cant wait for what?
Dec 04 20:28:42 <bgupta> So why Android team rewrite uclibc then? It seems that jpq implied it was because of userspace licensing issues.. but clearly I completely misunderstood.
Dec 04 20:28:59 <Disconnect> there is a -ton- of gpl stuff in the external projects.
Dec 04 20:29:08 <marix> unix_lappy,  the new ugly knitted thing of the week.
Dec 04 20:29:29 <unix_lappy> oh, thought it was something android related.
Dec 04 20:29:36 <unix_lappy> like he hacked together a multitouch framework.
Dec 04 20:30:14 <marix> not yet...  he's too busy building a geocaching app
Dec 04 20:30:52 <marix> cuz you know,  i read his block so i know his life story
Dec 04 20:30:57 <marix> blog even
Dec 04 20:31:19 <bgupta> Is anyone working on a Hotspot app? IE: TUrn your phone into a protable hotspot??
Dec 04 20:31:37 <grey-> bgupta: I hope so.
Dec 04 20:31:37 <bgupta> MM.. wifi hotspot that is.
Dec 04 20:31:55 <grey-> bgupta: seeing how the bluetooth stack is currently super-crippled, wifi might be the way to go [and would be preferable anyway]
Dec 04 20:31:57 <marix> bgupta,  should be in the next version of the modified rc30
Dec 04 20:32:13 <bgupta> awesome..
Dec 04 20:32:14 <marix> ask disconnect for more info
Dec 04 20:32:33 <grey-> marix: speaking of modified rc30's... is there a good place to keep up to date on such things; trying to sift through xda-developers the first time was a pain.
Dec 04 20:32:41 <grey-> webBB's = teh sux
Dec 04 20:32:51 <grey-> at least give me an rss/atom feed.
Dec 04 20:32:59 <marix> grey- you're at the best place to be :-/
Dec 04 20:33:14 <vol> oh, absolutely wonderful! So, I'm using the sdk emulator instead of the one built from source, and it won't load my nmea tracks via ddms either!
Dec 04 20:33:17 <grey-> marix: hehe, I should start logging the channel then so I can grep through scrollback.
Dec 04 20:33:17 <vol> this is superb!
Dec 04 20:33:19 <vol> spectacular!
Dec 04 20:33:23 <vol> thanks, guys!
Dec 04 20:33:33 * vol vents murderous rage
Dec 04 20:33:34 <marix> grey-  logs already exist
Dec 04 20:33:42 <grey-> marix: ah that saves me time.
Dec 04 20:33:47 <vol> has anyone else had location manager related issues like this?
Dec 04 20:33:50 <bgupta> diconnect Do you have a roadmap for modded firmware features you are working on? Maybe an issue tracker?
Dec 04 20:34:20 <marix> cant remember where they are at though.
Dec 04 20:35:00 <Disconnect> woohoo, gerrit is still a fucked up POS. (lemme guess. it was tested by the same group that tested the email app?) 'reply' is broken. not just "it doesn't work" but "it causes a 500 which someone in a WEB SERVICES COMPANY like google should be getting paged for.."
Dec 04 20:36:07 <romainguy> Disconnect: file bugs instead of swearing
Dec 04 20:36:10 <marix> infobot disconnect is alo emo
Dec 04 20:36:11 <infobot> ...but disconnect is already something else...
Dec 04 20:36:17 <marix> infobot disconnect is also emo
Dec 04 20:36:18 <infobot> okay, marix
Dec 04 20:36:29 <jbq> Disconnect: that's not an issue of testing it (we know it's broken), it's an issue of the issue being important enough to be worth fixing.
Dec 04 20:37:03 <RyeBrye> I was getting an error just trying to report a bug in gerrit from the browser on the G1
Dec 04 20:37:22 <Disconnect> ...how hard would it be to remove the link? although i realize submissions from the outside aren't that important (it throws them away, they are lost, unrecoverable, etc..) it still seems excessive..
Dec 04 20:37:25 <RyeBrye> or maybe it was on google code that I was trying to report the bug
Dec 04 20:37:36 <jbq> Disconnect: feel free to remove it yourself if it bothers you so much!
Dec 04 20:38:01 <pohamir> lol infernix sparkle, okay i closed out my dsl and i am now on my g1
Dec 04 20:38:15 <pohamir> but i am ssh with irssi, for some reason the ip forwarding isn't working
Dec 04 20:38:25 <Disconnect> jbq: sure. where is the source repo and what are my checkin credentials?
Dec 04 20:38:25 <pohamir> could possible be my macbook config
Dec 04 20:38:33 <pohamir> i have set up adhoc on the g1 :>
Dec 04 20:38:57 <jbq> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=tools/gerrit.git;a=summary
Dec 04 20:39:47 <joeo> Disconnect: repo init -u git://android.kernel.org/tools/manifest.git will get you the gerrit code
Dec 04 20:39:58 <joeo> you also need the app engine sdk from code.google.com/appengine
Dec 04 20:41:00 <joeo> gerrit/test-utils.sh has some helper shell functions that get the environment running locally
Dec 04 20:41:02 <Disconnect> downloading now.
Dec 04 20:42:25 <joeo> oh, sorry, I mean android.git.kernel.org, not android.kernel.org
Dec 04 20:43:28 <luok> doh!  screen turn off during call and i try to turn it back on with call end button
Dec 04 20:43:31 <luok> stupid me
Dec 04 20:44:43 <bgupta> Wondering how hard it would be to get android running on a Treo 800w? (Assuming the Android CDMA stack is baked)
Dec 04 20:44:58 <Disconnect> http://review.source.android.com/5271 ok my oneline patch (slightly more) is submitted.
Dec 04 20:45:23 <marix> Anyone noticed how the g1 screen gets all prismatic in direct sunlight but black text is still readable?  thats gr8
Dec 04 20:46:10 <marix> infobot disconnect is also a real gogetter!
Dec 04 20:46:11 <infobot> marix: okay
Dec 04 20:46:27 <luok> prismatic?
Dec 04 20:46:45 <Disconnect> marix: stop screwing with the bot. or at least, feel free to abuse your own entries instead of mine.
Dec 04 20:48:59 <RyeBrye> infobot what is marid
Dec 04 20:49:00 <infobot> RyeBrye: I think you lost me on that one
Dec 04 20:49:01 <RyeBrye> infobot what is marix
Dec 04 20:49:02 <infobot> RyeBrye: what are you talking about?
Dec 04 20:49:06 <RyeBrye> infobot who is marix
Dec 04 20:49:07 <infobot> RyeBrye: I think you lost me on that one
Dec 04 20:49:19 <marix> im nobody :(
Dec 04 20:49:26 <RyeBrye> infobot marix is nobody :(
Dec 04 20:49:27 <infobot> okay, RyeBrye
Dec 04 20:51:48 <bgupta> Disconnect: ANy thought to a package manager in a future firmware update?
Dec 04 20:52:06 <Disconnect> why ask me?
Dec 04 20:52:57 <RyeBrye> bgupta - if anyone, Saurik woudl be the one to ask about that - he's the one who built Cydia for the iPhone afterall
Dec 04 20:54:40 <Disconnect> fast approval of my patch. if only they'd fix android that fast :)
Dec 04 20:54:43 <bgupta> Disconnect: marix said you were working on the next firmware.. Or at least that is how I read what he said: "bgupta,  should be in the next version of the modified rc30" " ask disconnect for more info"
Dec 04 20:55:03 <Disconnect> ..and what have we learned about marix today?
Dec 04 20:55:06 <bgupta> (We were talking about wifomobile hotspot.
Dec 04 20:55:21 <bgupta> ah
Dec 04 20:55:57 <RyeBrye> Disconnect did the bluetooth PAN tethering stuff
Dec 04 20:59:31 <bgupta> http://www.gotontheinter.net/ Found it thanks..
Dec 04 20:59:35 <marix> lies,  all lies!
Dec 04 20:59:48 <pohamir> herm, i was right, mac client was wrong
Dec 04 21:02:00 <bgupta> I now understand what marix was saying. that the buetooth tethering would be in JF's next RC30 patched firmware.. (Reading disconnect's blog is useful)
Dec 04 21:03:11 <marix> sorry,  should have specified a bit more.
Dec 04 21:03:50 <bgupta> Now the question is does JF have a blog, or roadmap for what is going in his future firmware releases.
Dec 04 21:04:58 <bgupta> wondering if porting this interests anyone: http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Ipkg
Dec 04 21:05:15 <bradleyy_> booya
Dec 04 21:05:44 <marix> i still really hate sap,  after 3 years,  its still total shit
Dec 04 21:05:51 <Disconnect> ipkg is a poc. the dpkg implementation in busybox is much better and just as small
Dec 04 21:06:04 <bradleyy_> if only I had a cracked rc30 rather than a stock one
Dec 04 21:06:55 <bgupta> wow... busybox has gotten alot more featureful since I last looked..
Dec 04 21:07:35 <bgupta> or has that been in all the time?
Dec 04 21:08:11 <bgupta> looks ike it was implementedback in 2001
Dec 04 21:09:49 <Disconnect> hahaha. google marked their own google earth announcement as spam
Dec 04 21:10:11 <vol> haha
Dec 04 21:10:22 <marix> nice.
Dec 04 21:10:25 <morrildl> heh, oops
Dec 04 21:10:46 <morrildl> I'm thinking that either the Gmail team, or the Earth team, ought to learn something from that :)
Dec 04 21:12:20 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: you honsetly find your self need to a shell on the G1?
Dec 04 21:12:31 <unix_lappy> (not for development, I mean casual use)
Dec 04 21:13:27 <Bally3> hello
Dec 04 21:13:31 <RyeBrye> I like to su / reboot my phone frm the shell - I don't like holding the three reset buttons
Dec 04 21:13:43 <Disconnect> oh. -and- phishing. there's like 20 clicks needed to get the links to work.
Dec 04 21:13:46 <anno^da_> I got a question or perhaps feature request. Why isn't there a notification with the LED when you miss a call. (I can see notifications for emails and sms but no calls)
Dec 04 21:14:41 <anno^da_> (I know that it is pretty easy to implement such a notification. I was just wondering that this is missing at the moment. )
Dec 04 21:15:21 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: heh, yea, but that requires root.
Dec 04 21:18:52 <luok> is there a shortcut to reset using buttons?
Dec 04 21:19:08 <RyeBrye> menu + call + power
Dec 04 21:19:15 <RyeBrye> hold it down for a while
Dec 04 21:19:22 <luok> cool thx
Dec 04 21:19:26 <RyeBrye> or tap it twice quickly
Dec 04 21:19:48 <RyeBrye> but I've not had that work - so I think holding it down for a second works better
Dec 04 21:20:13 <luok> also is there any sort of guide on moving data to another phone
Dec 04 21:20:17 <luok> thinking about swapping bronze for black
Dec 04 21:20:37 <luok> i guess i'll just lose some minor stuff like call history
Dec 04 21:20:57 <marix> yea,  most everything else in on googles servers already
Dec 04 21:22:34 <andyross> If your phone is rooted, you should be able to clone the /data partition and keep everything.
Dec 04 21:22:53 <andyross> I guess there's some possibility that something might break due to a change of IMEI, I guess...
Dec 04 21:23:24 <luok> not rooted
Dec 04 21:23:28 <luok> so its mooted
Dec 04 21:23:32 <luok> (sorry that was terrible)
Dec 04 21:24:49 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: you could use anycut iirc.
Dec 04 21:25:10 <unix_lappy> nvm.
Dec 04 21:26:33 <Phlogi> is there a vpn client for the g1?
Dec 04 21:26:37 <Phlogi> I mean for android
Dec 04 21:27:21 <Disconnect> marix: um. "most everything else" isn't.. the only stuff google saves: gmail. contacts. calendar. the stuff it doesn't, before you install apps even: bookmarks, sms's (sent, received). mms's (same). browser history. preferences (all of them). email (non-gmail). pop mail (oops, thats just GONE, at least imap can be serverside).
Dec 04 21:27:49 <blau-MikeDG> anyone have an idea about the best way to check contacts for a phone number?
Dec 04 21:30:45 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: that leaves a niche for you to fill. a proper backup / export tool.
Dec 04 21:30:46 <luok> Disconnect: hm luckily i've only had it about a week..but this does make me wonder about long term strategy
Dec 04 21:30:48 <mreimer> are prelink warnings anything to be concerned about?
Dec 04 21:31:21 <fadden> mreimer: what's the warning?
Dec 04 21:31:45 <danno> does anyone know of an app that provides access to various tcp tools, like ping, traceroute, nslookup etc I have the terminal app installed, but only ping works, unfortunatley I already have rc30 so I can't even gain root access
Dec 04 21:31:46 <mreimer> fadden: http://pastebin.com/m789b50fd
Dec 04 21:32:28 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: ok. lemme just read /data/data/com.android.browser/..oops. ok.. well. backtrack. /data/data/com.fsck.k-9/....oops. hmm. well... i could export all the stuff google already backs up. or at least some of it. maybe..
Dec 04 21:32:36 <fadden> I believe the prelinker does tend to screw up the debug info.
Dec 04 21:32:52 <fadden> I don't think it'll affect the ability of the lib to execute.
Dec 04 21:33:14 <mreimer> fadden: ok, thanks
Dec 04 21:33:53 <mreimer> fadden: currently in our debugging we're seeing ZipRO's inflateBuffer() get a bunch of zeroes for input, which it pukes on
Dec 04 21:34:42 <fadden> mreimer: that's... weird
Dec 04 21:34:51 <mreimer> indeed
Dec 04 21:34:54 <fadden> ZipRO does use mmap() exclusively
Dec 04 21:36:56 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: access to the data google backs up and owning it are two different things.
Dec 04 21:37:12 <unix_lappy> owning it and being able to use it*
Dec 04 21:37:36 <luok> if its not readable how do you back it up?
Dec 04 21:37:55 <Disconnect> luok: ...right. now you're getting it.
Dec 04 21:38:57 <luok> so there isn't a content provider or whatever for the bookmarks and stuff?
Dec 04 21:39:07 <jasta> fadden: why do you guys use mmap for that?  can't you decompress a zip file stream?
Dec 04 21:39:16 <pohamir> yeah, it was the mac
Dec 04 21:40:26 <fadden> mreimer: might want to turn "debugvm" on
Dec 04 21:40:49 <mreimer> fadden: is that a property?
Dec 04 21:40:59 <Phlogi> how can I delete an event from calender app?
Dec 04 21:41:07 <pohamir> infernix sparkle now what?
Dec 04 21:41:09 <romainguy> try to long press it
Dec 04 21:41:31 <pohamir> Phlogi: touch and hold it
Dec 04 21:41:35 <fadden> jasta: ZipFileRO mmaps the source zip and allocates about 8 bytes per entry.  The idea is to minimize the heap required to access a zip file.
Dec 04 21:41:37 <pohamir> romainguy: sorry :\
Dec 04 21:41:52 <romainguy> :)
Dec 04 21:41:53 <Phlogi> pohamir: hmm and then?
Dec 04 21:42:03 <pohamir> click delete
Dec 04 21:42:09 <fadden> It's only for fully-formed zip files sitting on disk, e.g. everything coming out of an APK.
Dec 04 21:42:41 <Phlogi> pohamir: no menu is showing up...
Dec 04 21:42:55 <SanMehat> ok who needs mmap() help?
Dec 04 21:43:26 <fadden> mreimer: SanMehat knows much more about this stuff than I
Dec 04 21:44:54 <SanMehat> mreimer: setup a test where 2 processess mmap() the same file, and synchronize writing different poison patterns to them (with socket IPC or something).
Dec 04 21:45:06 <SanMehat> mreimer: then verify the patterns get seen from the other process
Dec 04 21:45:39 <SanMehat> mreimer: you may even want to do it with 3 processes... this will help rule out cache-aliasing issues in your kernel
Dec 04 21:45:51 <SanMehat> mreimer: (i'm not familiar with the chipset you're using, so i can't really be much more help without more information)
Dec 04 21:49:25 * heat ^5s rebecca
Dec 04 21:50:43 <Disconnect> all bitching aside, google might want to look to some of the older CRL (compaq research lab / handhelds.org) guys for tips on integrating internal and external devs. (was just discussing it in another channel) their linux on ipaq team "way back when" was excellent at that and in large part laid the groundwork for all the embedded linux that has come since (including android :) ..)
Dec 04 21:50:47 <jasta> sup heat
Dec 04 21:50:58 <heat> sup jasta
Dec 04 21:51:35 <mreimer> SanMehat: thanks. we're running on pxa320
Dec 04 21:53:42 <mreimer> fadden: Is binder involved in this process of reading in assets from .apk?
Dec 04 21:54:01 <joeo> Disconnect: Not to make exuses... but the big reason is that we have a big pile of unreleased code internally, and we have update to ship based on that.  We're getting that out into the open too, but it's just not done yet.
Dec 04 21:54:20 <blau-MikeDG> disc: i got a response from Kogan
Dec 04 21:54:34 <blau-MikeDG> Both models are unlocked and should work on any network that supports
Dec 04 21:54:34 <blau-MikeDG> the following bandwidths:
Dec 04 21:54:34 <blau-MikeDG> UMTS/HSDPA (850, 1900, 2100 MHz)
Dec 04 21:54:34 <blau-MikeDG> GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)
Dec 04 21:54:36 <joeo> but the plan is for most googlers to be just working in the open source tree
Dec 04 21:55:10 <blau-MikeDG> joeo: you should get some more people to be googlers
Dec 04 21:55:19 <joeo> heh
Dec 04 21:55:51 <blau-MikeDG> where does most of the android stuff happen? new york?
Dec 04 21:55:53 <Disconnect> joeo: yah i just mean in general. they had a reasonable oversight that mostly just accounted for serverside resources (including 2 strongarm dev clusters - ipaqs and skiffs) and everything else was community driven. (distributions, development, most policing..)
Dec 04 21:56:17 <Disconnect> blau-MikeDG: i saw that in one of the articles that was posted. but i don't remember what usa tmob freqs are :/
Dec 04 21:56:32 <joeo> It's mostly in Mountain View
Dec 04 21:56:34 <sparkle> 1700/2100
Dec 04 21:56:49 <joeo> with a handful in Cambridge and Seattle, and a few others elsewhere
Dec 04 21:57:08 <Disconnect> its a little strange that nobody here has one. and i agree with whomever was saying it looks like a bb logo on that button..
Dec 04 21:57:16 <blau-MikeDG> The U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS 1900 MHz frequency-band, making it the largest 1900 MHz network in the United States. Service is available in 98 of the 100 largest markets and 268 million potential customers (POPS).
Dec 04 21:57:28 <joeo> Disconnect:  that's good advice.  I'll do a little googling for them.
Dec 04 21:57:30 <Disconnect> right thats gsm
Dec 04 21:57:51 <fadden> mreimer: binder is the IPC mechanism.  I don't think it's involved with reading assets from APKs, but I'm not well versed with the higher-level code.
Dec 04 21:58:02 <mreimer> ok
Dec 04 21:58:11 <Disconnect> joeo: you'll find a lot of free software users/devs also. george france, carl worth, etc..
Dec 04 21:58:28 <mreimer> Keith Packard
Dec 04 21:59:22 <blau-MikeDG> i want to own ever android phone
Dec 04 22:00:23 <marix> did htc do any real development for the g1 or was it all google?
Dec 04 22:01:13 <jbq> A lot of companies were involved, not just Google and HTC (and, yes, HTC did a lot of work).
Dec 04 22:01:22 <khert> they probably did all the drivers
Dec 04 22:01:37 <luok> does google provide any sort of online storage if an app wants to store its data on the internet?
Dec 04 22:03:00 <jlapenna> luok: google app engine has a whole lot of stuff going on in server side stuff.
Dec 04 22:03:51 <blau-MikeDG> i think this is the closest, http://www.google.com/support/accounts/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=65431
Dec 04 22:04:11 <blau-MikeDG> but doubt its what u looking for
Dec 04 22:04:50 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: hopefully android doesnt go the way of CRL.
Dec 04 22:04:58 <unix_lappy> similar climate for failure though :-(
Dec 04 22:05:15 <blau-MikeDG> whats CRL
Dec 04 22:05:28 <bradleyy_> Certificate Revocation Lists
Dec 04 22:05:40 <bradleyy_> What's TLA?
Dec 04 22:06:34 <luok> jlapenna: hm but do they make any claims as far as backup
Dec 04 22:06:41 <luok> or reliability
Dec 04 22:08:10 <luok> ah maybe once there are paid account
Dec 04 22:11:56 <eldenz> is there anything that should stop me from storing all my (network)game state information in a service?
Dec 04 22:12:53 <eldenz> feels like a hack around the lifecycle model of an activity though... :/ but i somehow don't see anything different (memorywise) if i push things around in Bundles
Dec 04 22:13:02 <bgupta> Hey is there a public roadmap for Android dev? I really want better Google Docs support? IE: RW access, and preferably full offline access to documents. (Using gears)
Dec 04 22:13:49 <eldenz> bgupta, isn't everything covered in the offline doc?
Dec 04 22:13:59 <anno^da_> http://source.android.com/roadmap @ bgupta
Dec 04 22:14:27 <bgupta> Yeah, I started typing the other stuff before adding that as a holy grail.
Dec 04 22:14:39 <jbq> bgupta: that's more a question about Google-specific apps than about the core Android itself, and I'm not aware of public roadmaps for Google's apps.
Dec 04 22:14:41 <bgupta> anno_da: thx
Dec 04 22:15:09 <anno^da_> np
Dec 04 22:16:41 <bgupta> jpq: Makes sense... Well I'm sure Google knows people want offlie doc editing. I'm kinda curious if google is gonna end up doing it, or leave that as a 3rd party niche to fill in... I guess only time will tell.
Dec 04 22:17:13 <anno^da_> I'm looking forward to the onscreen keyboard. Having to switch to landscape mode in order to search for a special name in the contacts is annoying me every day. (not very efficient since you just type 2 or 3 charcters)
Dec 04 22:19:03 <snlemons> so, I've looked through forum posts and tried several different things, but I can't seem to get my G1 to connect to my wireless router. is this an alright place to ask about that or is there a better channel?
Dec 04 22:20:13 <snlemons> fyi, it's a wireless G router with SSID broadcasting and uses WPA2 personal. the device sees it with great signal, lets me enter the key, and when I tell it to connect it suddenly says it's out of range.
Dec 04 22:20:23 <Disconnect> wpa2 is broken
Dec 04 22:20:35 <snlemons> in general or for the G1?
Dec 04 22:20:49 <snlemons> :)
Dec 04 22:21:56 <michaelnovakjr> i noticed that last night
Dec 04 22:21:58 <snlemons> Disconnect: is there anything I can do to fix it without switching all my other devices to use another protocol? I've got several machines that use WPA2 to connect to that router currently.
Dec 04 22:22:02 <michaelnovakjr> but it worked for me
Dec 04 22:22:22 <anno^da_> Disconnect: I'm working with WPA2 here all day.
Dec 04 22:22:29 <Disconnect> use wpa1
Dec 04 22:22:32 <Disconnect> anno^da_: lucky you.
Dec 04 22:22:33 <anno^da_> (UK RC8)
Dec 04 22:22:34 <michaelnovakjr> snlemons: i had the same thing happen to me, it said it was out of range but then connected a few seconds later
Dec 04 22:22:38 <snlemons> michaelnovakjr: do you use AES, TKIP, or both?
Dec 04 22:22:45 <michaelnovakjr> its wpa2
Dec 04 22:22:46 <streeter> snlemons: I had that problem with an old d-link wireless router. I have a new linksys router and it works fine
Dec 04 22:22:51 <michaelnovakjr> i think aes
Dec 04 22:22:59 <anno^da_> Disconnect: perhaps it has to do something with the different access points from different vendors.
Dec 04 22:23:15 <anno^da_> I'm using WPA2 with AES
Dec 04 22:23:18 <snlemons> streeter: mine's a Linksys wrt54g
Dec 04 22:23:22 <anno^da_> and a Netgear AP
Dec 04 22:23:30 <michaelnovakjr> yea mine's aes and it eventually connected
Dec 04 22:23:31 <Disconnect> most APs do wpa1/wpa2 together, its rare that you can limit to just wpa2 (wiht stock firmware). but anyway i gotta bail, bbl
Dec 04 22:23:42 <snlemons> mine's AES and TKIP, maybe I should try with just AES
Dec 04 22:24:27 <snlemons> I don't know if it's limited to 1 or 2. I'm using dd-wrt, and all it does is let me select 1 or 2. not sure if 2 means "1 and 2"
Dec 04 22:26:55 <anno^da_> What AP are you using Disconnect ?
Dec 04 22:28:25 <snlemons> for those who care, it appears that changing it from TKIP+AES to just AES fixed it. thanks a ton, folks.
Dec 04 22:29:05 <anno^da_> nice to hear :-)
Dec 04 22:40:03 <ers> ops
Dec 04 22:43:37 <SanMehat> mreimer: back.
Dec 04 22:44:54 <anno^da_> What is the easiest way to implement an app waiting for missed calls and setting a LED notification. Is it the right way to start a service and register in this service a BroadcastReceiver waiting for the missed call? Or is there an easier way?
Dec 04 22:52:11 <offby1> probably the easiest way is to not write the app at all, and let the phone handle it :)
Dec 04 22:53:58 <anno^da_> offby1: well you dont get any LED notification from the system when you missed a call ;)
Dec 04 22:56:33 <Decavolt> not sure if it only happens when there's a voicemail waiting, but  I get LED's on misses calls. Seems like it's working to me.
Dec 04 22:57:12 <anno^da_> Yeah it you got a voicemail you get the notification.
Dec 04 22:57:15 <anno^da_> if
Dec 04 22:57:26 <Decavolt> but none at all with a missed call?
Dec 04 22:57:29 <anno^da_> But if you "just" missed a call there is nothing.
Dec 04 22:57:38 <anno^da_> Exactly.
Dec 04 22:58:24 <Decavolt> I don't think that's going to be easy at all. You'd have to access the dialer, if not build a new one.
Dec 04 22:59:57 <anno^da_> So the system is not sending a broadcast for incoming / missed calls?
Dec 04 23:00:19 <anno^da_> Because if the system would send such a broadcast it would not be that difficult.
Dec 04 23:01:44 <Decavolt> not sure on that one
Dec 04 23:02:09 <luok> would be nice to have access to all notifications really
Dec 04 23:02:19 <anno^da_> There would be two things we need to know. Is there a broadcast sent while having a missed call. And second is there a possibility to check if there are any missed calls. (to stop the notify)
Dec 04 23:03:30 <anno^da_> I'm checking this now since I want that notification :D
Dec 04 23:03:48 <luok> lemme know what you find
Dec 04 23:05:39 * unix_lappy is wondering how many of the non-developers on the Android team still carry iPhones or Blackberry's ;-P
Dec 04 23:17:17 <bbs> hello
Dec 04 23:17:20 <bbs> anyone alive
Dec 04 23:17:38 <jbq> ...
Dec 04 23:17:46 <offby1> naw
Dec 04 23:17:47 <offby1> nobody here but us zombie processes.
Dec 04 23:36:37 <anno^da_> Is there an overview available which broadcasts are sent by the system?
Dec 04 23:38:20 <joeo> most of them are in the docs for android.content.Intent
Dec 04 23:38:29 <zhobbs> is that kogan device touchscreen?
Dec 04 23:42:14 <andyross> Product page says so: http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/android-powered-kogan-agora-3G-mobile-phone/
Dec 04 23:42:38 <andyross> Only 320x240 though, which is odd.  It's priced like a G1.
Dec 04 23:42:52 <zhobbs> priced like a G1, but no contract required
Dec 04 23:43:14 <andyross> Ah, OK.  I'd just assumed.
Dec 04 23:43:23 <hubar> G1
Dec 04 23:43:34 <hubar> 's battery is a pain to seperate.
Dec 04 23:43:54 <andyross> Not the worst of its physical flaws, but yeah.
Dec 04 23:44:00 <hubar> I had to bring it to the store and let their ppl do it.
Dec 04 23:44:28 <andyross> Uh... not *that* bad on mine.  Nothing a little fingernail work couldn't solve..
Dec 04 23:44:45 <hubar> And the (is that power) button's cap is linked with the unit with a plastic???
Dec 04 23:45:00 <andyross> You mean the USB port cover?
Dec 04 23:45:19 <anno^da_> thank you joeo
Dec 04 23:45:25 <hubar> I amnot sure, it si on the bottomof the unit.
Dec 04 23:45:40 <Decavolt> that's power/data port
Dec 04 23:46:05 <zhobbs> seems like with a 320x240 screen, touchscreen or not, it'd be better to just make everything small and use the d-pad/select for most navigation
Dec 04 23:46:12 <zhobbs> and rely on that instead of the touchscreen
Dec 04 23:46:18 <hubar> whatever that is, it is aweful design. :(
Dec 04 23:46:22 <Decavolt> and the cover has to be attached, or you'll lose it. The only other option is not to have a cover at all, but then the port could get all full of gunk and link and who knows what else.
Dec 04 23:46:34 <Decavolt> so tear it off :)
Dec 04 23:46:46 <hubar> How does iphone do it?
Dec 04 23:46:54 <zhobbs> my old phone had a usb charger with no cover...
Dec 04 23:47:02 <andyross> As a point of reference: I carried a A780 in my pocket for three years with no USB port cover, plugged it in every day, and never had trouble.
Dec 04 23:47:02 <luok> zhobbs: treo650 worked great at roughly that res but i had to use corner of thumb
Dec 04 23:47:07 <luok> spose it just requires pincers
Dec 04 23:48:33 <Decavolt> iPhone's is always open, uncovered
Dec 04 23:48:33 <Decavolt> http://the-gadgeteer.com//assets/apple-iphone-8.jpg
Dec 04 23:50:09 <luok> other htc's are also uncovered right?
Dec 04 23:51:42 <Decavolt> some, but I don't know about all
Dec 04 23:53:29 <d0nkey> first of all..
Dec 04 23:53:35 <d0nkey> hello android
Dec 04 23:53:57 <Decavolt> heya
Dec 04 23:54:22 <d0nkey> second.. im using the g1 irc program right now.  does anyone know how to disable join/leave messages?
Dec 04 23:54:48 <offby1> d0nkey: I don't think you can ... I asked the author and I think he said he's considering adding that as a feature
Dec 04 23:55:12 <Decavolt> I think it's be nice to be able to shake the phone for clearing the screen.
Dec 04 23:55:13 <d0nkey> that would be nice.  sweet app though
Dec 04 23:55:27 <Decavolt> like an etch-a-sketch
Dec 04 23:55:48 <d0nkey> i dont want the chat messages cleared.. just join/leave messages
Dec 04 23:56:28 <Decavolt> *nod* just made me think of shaking the screen
Dec 04 23:56:52 <meyou> he needs to make it process mIRC color codes
Dec 04 23:57:04 <meyou> so i can join #trivia on efnet on my ride home from work
Dec 05 00:01:55 <d0nkey> oh man..  i used to love #trivia
Dec 05 00:04:02 <offby1> meyou: I do more or less that :)
Dec 05 00:04:12 <offby1> different channels in my case.  Like ... this one
Dec 05 00:04:52 <d0nkey> anyone know the command to show who is in the room?
Dec 05 00:06:43 <Decavolt> should be /names
Dec 05 00:06:47 <Decavolt> I think...
Dec 05 00:07:04 <Decavolt> yah, that's it
Dec 05 00:09:24 <d0nkey> ok thanks
Dec 05 00:09:30 <d0nkey> wow lots of folks here
Dec 05 00:12:46 * offby1 hides behind the potted plant
Dec 05 00:13:28 * d0nkey slaps offby1 in the teeth with a large trout
Dec 05 00:14:23 <d0nkey> has rc30 been hacked today?
Dec 05 00:15:54 <offby1> :(
Dec 05 00:16:07 * offby1 orders dentures, and proceeds to throw them at d0n
Dec 05 00:16:10 <offby1> key
Dec 05 00:26:52 <offby1> ha, I finally figured out the significance of names Android gives your photos (when I upload them to flickr, e.g., they're named like "1228078833694.jpg").  They're not time_ts, but they are time_t * 1000 -- i.e., they're the number of milliseconds since The Epoch.
Dec 05 00:26:59 <offby1> I suspect I'm not the first to realize this.
Dec 05 00:27:37 <offby1> (And "The Epoch", for all you non-Unix guys, is midnight, January 1, 1970, UTC)
Dec 05 00:29:04 <jbq> ... and nobody is complaining that the numbering scheme won't work if a camera can capture more than 1000 fps?
Dec 05 00:29:16 <offby1> Oh, I'm sure they will :)
Dec 05 00:29:46 <offby1> jbq: I imagine you get a lot of that
Dec 05 00:30:03 <jbq> stupid comments? Oh yeah, all the time :)
Dec 05 00:30:10 <anno^da_> :-)
Dec 05 00:34:38 <offby1> damn, time is complicated; I commend http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_epoch to anyone who has some ... wait for it ... time on their hands
Dec 05 00:34:40 <offby1> *rimshot*
Dec 05 00:34:56 <offby1> thanks, I'm here all week
Dec 05 00:34:59 <offby1> be sure to tip your waitress
Dec 05 00:35:01 <fadden> Not if I get ops.
Dec 05 00:36:49 <Decavolt> unix epoch based time is standard in any *nix system and for most programming languages, so it makes perfect sense that android uses it as a timestamp for photos
Dec 05 00:38:22 <offby1> indeed
Dec 05 00:38:29 <offby1> I was surprised, though, at the extra factor of 1000
Dec 05 00:39:19 <jbq> multiple fps wouldn't be unrealistic.
Dec 05 00:39:25 <Decavolt> I would imagine the system adds a prefix or suffix to anything beyond that threshold
Dec 05 00:50:35 <fadden> Could get interesting if the clock moves backwards.
Dec 05 00:53:25 <jsharkey> fadden: there is a fix for that
Dec 05 00:53:41 <fadden> Quantum entanglement?
Dec 05 00:53:46 <Decavolt> lol
Dec 05 00:54:02 <jsharkey> fadden: read SystemClock, cuz uptimeMillis() doesnt go backwards
Dec 05 00:54:03 <Decavolt> tachyons baby
Dec 05 00:54:20 <jsharkey> whereas System.currentTimeMillis() could be adjusted back in time
Dec 05 00:54:24 <fadden> jsharkey: yes, but it resets when you reboot the device
Dec 05 00:54:29 <jsharkey> oh hmm true
Dec 05 00:57:47 <joeo> has anyone here ever build the simulator on ghardy?
Dec 05 00:58:05 <joeo> (I wish I never installed it)
Dec 05 00:58:25 <joeo> doh
Dec 05 00:58:26 <joeo> wrong window
Dec 05 00:58:29 <joeo> it was bound to happen
Dec 05 01:20:34 <JesusFreke> hmmmm. what's ghardy? must be some super secret google technology :D
Dec 05 01:20:53 * JesusFreke chuckles
Dec 05 01:27:25 <Versed> well that unlock my g1 worked, fast and good service
Dec 05 01:28:21 <offby1> do tell
Dec 05 01:29:11 <Versed> yeah, I figure I will keep tmo for another month then provision all the settings for att.
Dec 05 01:48:33 <bgupta> Other than this thread: http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1451852 I haven't heard much talk of extended batteries for the G1. Anyone have any solid info on an extended battery?
Dec 05 01:51:16 * offby1 looks at his feet
Dec 05 01:51:28 <bbs> yo
Dec 05 01:51:31 <bbs> is anyone here
Dec 05 01:51:59 <offby1> nobody here but us zombie processes.
Dec 05 01:53:33 <grey-> Force, close?  Wait?
Dec 05 01:53:47 <bbs> LOL
Dec 05 01:53:48 <bbs> hehehe
Dec 05 01:53:56 <bbs> is there a way to unlock this phone for ATT
Dec 05 01:54:06 <bbs> i work with a compnay trying to integrate an IM and sms archival service
Dec 05 01:54:09 <bbs> and we really love the phone
Dec 05 01:54:13 <bbs> but i'll work on it
Dec 05 01:54:17 <grey-> would that the job control was a user-available option rather than just when dalvik sees things amiss.
Dec 05 01:54:38 <grey-> bbs: hmmm, afaik if unlocked it should be usable on AT&T.
Dec 05 01:54:41 <grey-> maybe not -everything-
Dec 05 01:54:48 <grey-> but I assume phone calls.
Dec 05 01:55:04 <offby1> bbs: Versed just mentioned "unlock my g1"; I assume that's the name of a web site or something
Dec 05 01:55:06 <grey-> I kinda doubt some of the gmail sync stuff, because that's probably using a dedicated APN setup on tmobile's network to google.
Dec 05 01:55:34 <Versed> http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com/EN/index.php
Dec 05 01:55:36 <grey-> there are services to unlock g1's, you can also request an unlock code from tmobile (they will give it to any customer in good standing for 90 days, or probably with some whining)
Dec 05 01:55:38 <Versed> grey it works
Dec 05 01:55:50 <Versed> if you provision all the stuff.
Dec 05 01:55:53 <grey-> Versed: that's a commercial service.
Dec 05 01:55:57 <Versed> down the the market.
Dec 05 01:55:58 <grey-> Versed: Oh, the APN stuff?
Dec 05 01:56:06 <grey-> yeah iirc it's configurable.
Dec 05 01:56:19 <Versed> there is a video on the net of someone using it on att
Dec 05 01:56:26 <grey-> though iirc there was something about in the future being able to setup multiple apn's simultaneously.
Dec 05 01:59:07 <jbq> simultaneous APNs is common in Europe to separate web from MMS traffic.
Dec 05 01:59:36 <jbq> (lets you could send unlimited MMS with a plain data plan)
Dec 05 02:00:59 <bbs> grey-: its not unloked
Dec 05 02:01:14 <bbs> i've never been an tmobile user
Dec 05 02:02:47 <grey-> jbq: cool.
Dec 05 02:02:59 <Decavolt> bbs next Android phone is coming out at the end of January - unlocked and provider-independent - http://apcmag.com/breaking_first_australian_android_phone_revealed.htm
Dec 05 02:03:03 <Decavolt> why not wait for those instead?
Dec 05 02:03:05 <grey-> bbs: for now I guess a commercial unlocking service then.  I'm not aware of public unlocking techniques for the g1 right now.
Dec 05 02:03:23 <grey-> bbs: which is typical for most phones, there's a lot of money to be made from unlocking so the people who figure it out don't like to talk about how they do it.
Dec 05 02:03:27 <grey-> it's annoying.
Dec 05 02:04:46 <grey-> stupid cell phone lockdowns.
Dec 05 02:04:59 * grey- h8z on cell carriers.
Dec 05 02:05:25 <bbs> Decavolt: i already have the g1
Dec 05 02:05:38 <grey-> bbs: use a commercial service, sorry. ;-/
Dec 05 02:05:43 <bbs> grey-: yea
Dec 05 02:05:45 <bbs> shitty
Dec 05 02:05:48 <Decavolt> yah, not much choice then
Dec 05 02:05:52 <bbs> thanks guys
Dec 05 02:05:52 <grey-> if you find an alternative let me know.
Dec 05 02:05:55 <bbs> you were actually helpful
Dec 05 02:05:57 <grey-> haha
Dec 05 02:06:02 <bbs> grey-: work 25 bucks so i don't have to do the math
Dec 05 02:06:12 <bbs> ;)
Dec 05 02:06:16 <grey-> well I haven't seen any unlock info in any of my android feeds.
Dec 05 02:06:17 <bbs> i have better things to do with 30 hrs
Dec 05 02:06:18 <grey-> it's lame. ;-/
Dec 05 02:06:29 <bbs> i just don't ahve time you know :(
Dec 05 02:06:35 <bbs> i helped with the iphone at least
Dec 05 02:06:35 <grey-> bbs: that's what they're counting on. ;)
Dec 05 02:06:39 <bbs> but that thing is a piece of shit
Dec 05 02:06:40 <grey-> someone will figure it out
Dec 05 02:06:47 <grey-> or another unlocked phone will get released
Dec 05 02:06:54 <grey-> and people won't even bother with the g1 anymore.
Dec 05 02:07:06 <grey-> and maybe info will get leaked after it's no longer of value to anyone.
Dec 05 02:07:11 <grey-> that's a common pattern.
Dec 05 02:07:22 <grey-> if you wanna unlock some old shitty nokia, you've got lots of free options. ;)
Dec 05 02:08:22 <Versed> grey you didn't see the link to the unlocking service?
Dec 05 02:10:46 <grey-> Versed: *nod* I did.
Dec 05 02:10:59 <grey-> Versed: what I was saying is there is no -free- way to unlock a g1 that is public afaik.
Dec 05 02:10:59 <Versed> k
Dec 05 02:11:06 <Versed> not at present
Dec 05 02:11:13 <grey-> *nod* kinda sux.
Dec 05 02:11:17 <Versed> but the 24 bux ain't gonna kill me.
Dec 05 02:12:42 <grey-> it's certainly a lot cheaper than a $175 paintjob.
Dec 05 02:12:56 <grey-> roflz: http://www.colorwarepc.com/p-170-tmobile-g1.aspx
Dec 05 02:13:07 <JesusFreke> rofl
Dec 05 02:13:11 <JesusFreke> that's great
Dec 05 02:13:26 <grey-> albeit they'll sell prepainted unlocked g1's for... errr... $725
Dec 05 02:13:29 <grey-> WHAT A STEAL!
Dec 05 02:13:42 <grey-> I mean, stealing from the customers' wallets at least.
Dec 05 02:14:51 <grey-> JesusFreke: btw, thanks for your modded rc30.  The first thing I did with my g1 was set that up; very simple 20 minutes out of the box and w/ root.
Dec 05 02:15:08 <JesusFreke> np :)
Dec 05 02:15:35 <grey-> JesusFreke: albeit, I haven't done anything with it yet. But I rarely use root on my other systems either. ;)
Dec 05 02:15:55 <JesusFreke> true. but it's better to have it and not need, than to need it and not have it :)
Dec 05 02:15:56 <grey-> bad security practices... but having _no_ local root is a worse one.
Dec 05 02:16:00 <grey-> *nod*
Dec 05 02:16:36 <grey-> it's funny, a friend of mine did security auditing of the g1; he was under the erroneous impression that rc29 could be flashed on a device that had rc30.
Dec 05 02:16:50 <JesusFreke> heh. I wish
Dec 05 02:16:50 <grey-> and thus it wasn't a bad thing they'd removed local root, you could always get it back if you wanted.
Dec 05 02:20:30 <Disconnect> grey-: he must not have done much of an audit if he didn't know that :)
Dec 05 02:21:47 <unix_infidel> hmm, isnt it possible to set homepage to about:blank in the emulator
Dec 05 02:21:48 <unix_infidel> ?
Dec 05 02:24:16 <Decavolt> unix_infidel: the same method used on the actual device isn't working?
Dec 05 02:25:16 <grey-> Disconnect: hehe.
Dec 05 02:25:24 <grey-> Disconnect: I think the test devices were very different
Dec 05 02:25:27 <grey-> Disconnect: and he still has one.
Dec 05 02:25:42 <grey-> Disconnect: it wouldn't make much sense to not be able to rollback to a different release candidate on a test device.
Dec 05 02:26:00 <grey-> Disconnect: the funny thing is, it actually doesn't make much sense in a *production* device either, and yet they did that.
Dec 05 02:26:06 <grey-> *groan*
Dec 05 02:26:14 <Disconnect> it makes a ton of sense in a production device
Dec 05 02:26:28 <grey-> Disconnect: right, because then no one will ever hack it! (cackle)
Dec 05 02:26:33 <grey-> see also: psp.
Dec 05 02:26:39 <grey-> see also: ndsi
Dec 05 02:26:43 <grey-> etc.
Dec 05 02:26:49 <Disconnect> their security model only works (even vaguely) if the user has no system access.
Dec 05 02:27:09 <grey-> Disconnect: now see, I disagree.  Local root, if done properly, is not a security problem.
Dec 05 02:27:23 <grey-> Disconnect: the emulator gives you root by default when you connect to a shell.
Dec 05 02:27:27 <Disconnect> oh i see. the "it will probably get hacked anyway so we may as well give up" method? is that the same one that involves printing your credit card numbers on fliers and leaving them under all the windshields in the parking lot?
Dec 05 02:27:51 <grey-> Disconnect: as a hacker and security professional... there are types of security methods that actually aren't useful for pursuing.
Dec 05 02:28:02 <grey-> I really care about external people compromising my device.
Dec 05 02:28:05 <bmk789> is there an android wiki?
Dec 05 02:28:08 <grey-> do I care about me being able to shoot myself in the foot?
Dec 05 02:28:29 <Disconnect> as far as google (and app developers) are concerned, we're all external people.
Dec 05 02:28:44 <grey-> Disconnect: and the psp firmware cat and mouse game (which sony continues to insist on playing) is so pathetic that the hackers often released updated firmware builds before sony does.
Dec 05 02:28:50 <JesusFreke> bmk: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Dec 05 02:29:01 <grey-> Disconnect: having root on my device, does not give me root on a google system.
Dec 05 02:29:10 <grey-> very different.
Dec 05 02:29:17 <grey-> the android security model is very interesting.
Dec 05 02:29:33 <eugene> jbq: word
Dec 05 02:29:36 <Disconnect> "interesting" as in poorly thought out and mostly worthless?
Dec 05 02:29:40 <grey-> but it's contained primarily within the jvm, not in the linux processland.
Dec 05 02:29:57 <grey-> Disconnect: if you haven't read this: http://www.isecpartners.com/files/iSEC_Securing_Android_Apps.pdf you should.
Dec 05 02:30:06 <grey-> Disconnect: it discusses the android security model in depth.
Dec 05 02:30:50 <grey-> Disconnect: if you read that, you'll see a footnote at the end about root access.  But it is definitely NOT very pertinent to most of the android security model.
Dec 05 02:31:00 <grey-> Disconnect: (fwiw it's my friend who wrote that)
Dec 05 02:31:07 <grey-> and he's a much better hacker and security professional than I.
Dec 05 02:31:45 <Disconnect> selinux exists to do this sort of thing. and it does it well, in a properly configured system.
Dec 05 02:35:14 <Disconnect> but the whole platform is designed to desperately reinvent the wheel, whether its needed or not.
Dec 05 02:36:08 * JesusFreke tries to think of some way to tie that comment in to unicycling, but fails
Dec 05 02:39:52 <Gary|tp> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2999043&postcount=8
Dec 05 02:39:54 <Gary|tp> Woah.
Dec 05 02:41:37 <Disconnect> whahaha. "mutual of ohmygawd presents, world's dumbest animal encounters"
Dec 05 02:42:34 <JesusFreke> gary, you pirate you :D
Dec 05 02:43:13 <Disconnect> get a better card..?
Dec 05 02:44:20 <Gary|tp> I'm not the only one with problems, Disconnect
Dec 05 02:44:28 <Gary|tp> JesusFreke: It was the first large file I thought of, heh.
Dec 05 02:44:45 <Gary|tp> (plus had a terminal open there already so)
Dec 05 02:47:04 <KNY> Gary|tp, is it any good?
Dec 05 02:47:58 <Gary|tp> saw 5? yeah, I liked all of them tbh
Dec 05 02:49:05 <Gary|tp> Not the best movie I've seen recently, but still good. Watched prince caspian with the gf last night, that was good (but I was also a huge fan of the books so)
Dec 05 02:50:42 <JesusFreke> yeah, It was pretty good. I think I liked the first one better though
Dec 05 02:51:09 <Lieutenant> pdf's dont work on the phone?
Dec 05 02:51:12 <Lieutenant> thats pathetic.
Dec 05 02:51:24 <Gary|tp> well yeah, but that's to be expected because the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe book > prince caspian book.
Dec 05 02:51:50 <grey-> Gary|tp: wow, that's some data loss!
Dec 05 02:52:22 <Gary|tp> grey-: Read the thread, JF and others are having the same problems.
Dec 05 02:52:32 <grey-> orly?
Dec 05 02:52:39 <grey-> need to get out of this single post viewing mode.
Dec 05 02:52:53 <grey-> the usb is _very_ slow.
Dec 05 02:52:59 <grey-> that never fills me with confidence.
Dec 05 02:53:01 <Gary|tp> top right corner
Dec 05 02:53:36 <KNY> Lieutenant, feel free to write a PDF reader
Dec 05 02:53:55 <grey-> Disconnect: and the reinventing the wheel of security within the dalvik jvm and android... well it's a new one; but the unix permissions/security model is over 30 years old and has lotsa problems.
Dec 05 02:53:59 <grey-> Gary|tp: thx.
Dec 05 02:54:00 <KNY> Lieutenant, this might get you started: http://java-source.net/open-source/pdf-libraries
Dec 05 02:54:23 <Disconnect> grey-: take a look at their kernel patches and bionic and such. its pretty funny.
Dec 05 02:54:34 <grey-> Disconnect: actually I have a friend who's working with some chrome developers to try to develop a system to have each tab act as a separate userid in order to mimic some of the security capabilities of chrome on windows.
Dec 05 02:55:01 <grey-> Disconnect: it's not easy work, meanwhile android runs each app as its own uid as well as process.
Dec 05 02:55:11 <KNY> does it really?
Dec 05 02:55:27 <Gary|tp> Yeah, but every tab in browser has access to every other tab.
Dec 05 02:55:35 <Gary|tp> and I'd assume saved passwords/etc.
Dec 05 02:55:52 <Disconnect> grey-: i know how android security works. thats why i was commenting on it.
Dec 05 02:55:55 <Gary|tp> Did anyone figure out what the web browser exploit in RC28 was?
Dec 05 02:56:09 <grey-> Gary|tp: in chrome on windows, each tab is its own pid; and iirc there's an IPC mechanism for them to pass messages between each other.  But there's some other stuff so that one tab can't clobber another.
Dec 05 02:56:19 <Disconnect> rc18, rc28 and rc29 all had "critical" webkit vulns
Dec 05 02:56:35 <grey-> Gary|tp: unfortunately in linux/unix if you have one app with the same UID, there's kind of no way for separate PID's to be protected from each other at all.
Dec 05 02:56:36 <Disconnect> but since they can't be bothered to do source releases ...
Dec 05 02:56:48 <Gary|tp> Yeah, I know how Chrome on Windows works, I use/love it :P. I wonder how you'd implement the UID thing on Windows, though.
Dec 05 02:56:50 <Disconnect> grey-: there is with selinux
Dec 05 02:56:52 <grey-> Gary|tp: errr that's not quite true I mispoke.
Dec 05 02:56:55 <grey-> Disconnect: right selinux
Dec 05 02:57:00 <grey-> Disconnect: which may be it...
Dec 05 02:57:10 <grey-> Disconnect: they were kinda hoping to avoid that
Dec 05 02:57:15 <grey-> Disconnect: similar problem on OSX as well.
Dec 05 02:57:15 <Disconnect> but that would make too much sense when compared to a halfassed hacked up mess..
Dec 05 02:57:24 <grey-> there's no SEOSX.
Dec 05 02:57:41 <grey-> and realistically, osx is a potentially bigger market for chrome than linux.
Dec 05 02:57:58 <Disconnect> wow... http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/info/faq.cfm#I2 read theat first paragraph. sounds exactly like what android wants. but .. meh.
Dec 05 02:58:21 <grey-> Disconnect: well android is basically using linux as a glorified bootloader.
Dec 05 02:58:31 <grey-> Disconnect: similar to the sidekick, the meat of it is in the jvm.
Dec 05 02:58:34 <Disconnect> grey-: ok i'm not talking to you anymore, you are way too confused
Dec 05 02:59:05 <grey-> Disconnect: if you wish.
Dec 05 02:59:28 <grey-> Disconnect: android is not trying to be openmoko or some pure linux device.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 05 02:59:58 2008