**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 07 02:59:57 2008 Dec 07 03:00:05 flaushy, It needs an onscreen keyboard for that. Dec 07 03:00:10 To be useful anyway. Dec 07 03:00:31 we ll see :) Dec 07 03:01:05 developeing on qemu is not that great and with t-mobile it would be cheaper to get Dec 07 03:01:44 flaushy: is tmobile expensive in Germany? Dec 07 03:02:05 tmobile is germany based. Dec 07 03:02:11 * ahaberlach installs the Video Player to try to view a ripped DVD on his phone. Dec 07 03:02:23 swetland, It sounds from that text file like I should be able to get the blobs from an existing device, including a G1 right? Dec 07 03:02:24 videp player does avi? Dec 07 03:02:31 so y'all with the bootloader -- it has fastboot and everything? Dec 07 03:02:31 ahaberlach, Good luck, hope the file's not too big. Dec 07 03:02:33 brocktice: yup Dec 07 03:02:33 unix_infidel: so it could be expensive then :-) Dec 07 03:02:42 pfft: yeah Dec 07 03:02:51 swetland, Ah, installing git now to give it a try. Dec 07 03:02:52 brocktice : About 380mb. Dec 07 03:02:54 we would have liked to just host them, but there's a bunch of legal complexities Dec 07 03:02:58 pfft: we get the feeling they suck us dry and use us to expand on other markets Dec 07 03:03:06 wow Dec 07 03:03:25 flaushy: I'd think that tmo in Germany would be kinda like At&t was here in the US about 20 years ago ... only with better technology :-) Dec 07 03:03:30 I'm wondering why macports needs openssh and rsync for git. Dec 07 03:03:47 Holy cow. That's not bad at all. HandBrake ripped this sucker right on down and the video player is handling it fine. Dec 07 03:03:56 brocktice: well, git likes to talk over ssh Dec 07 03:04:05 pfft: cant tell how at&t was, but tmobile or german telecom is quite expensive. compared to eg Austria Dec 07 03:04:10 ahaberlach: didnt know android handled avi's quite yet. Dec 07 03:04:10 offby1, Haven't used it before - that makes sense. Dec 07 03:04:18 ahaberlach, How big is the file and how long is the movie? Dec 07 03:04:18 didnt know you could build codecs yet. Dec 07 03:04:35 pfft: tmo offeres flatrates in usa, in austria,but in germany they charge us about 20 cents permin Dec 07 03:04:38 flaushy: my tmo service is about 70 USD per month ... lemme see what services I guet Dec 07 03:04:46 flaushy: err ... get Dec 07 03:04:47 It just grinds to a halt when I try anything longer than a short clip. Dec 07 03:04:49 can you play streamed mp3's yet? Dec 07 03:04:51 pfft: plus taxes no? Dec 07 03:04:52 for jinzora? Dec 07 03:04:59 just to be sure i'm understanding this right, i rename the update_TC4-RC30_full_xda-dev_v1.2.zip file to just "UPDATE" and put it in the root directory of the microsd card? Dec 07 03:05:01 flaushy: Yikes! Dec 07 03:05:07 no Dec 07 03:05:09 maqr update.zip Dec 07 03:05:10 update.zip Dec 07 03:05:17 update is only if your computer hides the extension Dec 07 03:05:18 pfft: prices are dropping drastically tho Dec 07 03:05:21 oh, that was not clear from the thread Dec 07 03:05:25 flaushy: Yay! Dec 07 03:05:28 pfft: but mobile internet was long a dream Dec 07 03:05:39 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443797 <-- someone should update this to say update.zip Dec 07 03:05:48 it is on the wiki Dec 07 03:05:49 copy (or adb push) update_TC4-RC30_full_xda-dev_v1.2.xxx to /sdcard/update.zip Dec 07 03:05:53 flaushy: cant you get mobile internet with tmo in Germany? Dec 07 03:06:05 pfft: atm you pay about 25 EUR per month for mobile data flatrate (capped at 5 GB) Dec 07 03:06:22 pfft: the prices make you cry Dec 07 03:06:27 flaushy: I thinkit costs me about 20USD per month for unlimited internet thru tmo here in the US Dec 07 03:06:40 pfft: it is either iphone, or no unlimited internet on tmo Dec 07 03:06:48 flaushy: %GB is not too bad is it? Dec 07 03:06:51 i pay ~13€ for 1GB data Dec 07 03:06:56 pfft: tarifs start at 50 euro/mo i think Dec 07 03:06:57 flaushy: err. 5 GB Dec 07 03:07:18 flaushy: seriously? Dec 07 03:07:21 DarkriftX: is it case sensitive? it's "update.zip" all lowercase, right? Dec 07 03:07:32 flaushy: what about a blackberry with tmo in Germany? Dec 07 03:07:42 pfft: tmo secured 5 year exclusive rights with iphone Dec 07 03:07:51 *att Dec 07 03:07:52 maqr: don't worry too much. If it can't find it it just won't update. Dec 07 03:08:02 brocktice: ok, very nervous, just bought the phone a few days ago :p Dec 07 03:08:03 pfft: i am o2 customer, tmo was always more expensive Dec 07 03:08:05 flaushy: aww ... too bad for germany on that one iphone is the sUk Dec 07 03:08:18 brocktice: i really want to get into development for it, so i figure having root is pretty important, but i don't want to brick it Dec 07 03:08:19 maqr, Yeah, I got so nervous I reverted to stock and let it install RC30. Stupid me. Dec 07 03:08:19 yes Dec 07 03:08:23 flaushy: what about blackberries? Dec 07 03:08:24 pfft: we get unlocked ones from abroud, cheaper ... Dec 07 03:08:33 brocktice: have you fixed that yet? Dec 07 03:08:34 pfft: not really popular Dec 07 03:08:40 flaushy: why not? Dec 07 03:08:50 maqr, No way to revert yet. Dec 07 03:08:55 brocktice: it looks like the only part you need root for is the "flash_image" command, right? Dec 07 03:08:56 Now I've ordered a dev phone anyway. Dec 07 03:08:57 flaushy, how much do the G1 cost in germany? Dec 07 03:09:16 $400 for a frickin bootloader. Dec 07 03:09:25 wtf Dec 07 03:09:26 why? Dec 07 03:09:28 brocktice: why not just wait until you can fix it? Dec 07 03:09:28 maqr, not sure what you mean. Dec 07 03:09:42 flaushy: so far i've found that the developer experience is the best on the G1 and the blackberries Dec 07 03:09:44 maqr, Wife wanted a G1 anyway so she gets mine as an xmas present. :) Dec 07 03:09:54 brocktice: as opposed to an iphone? Dec 07 03:09:56 brocktice: well, i'm following the directions, and everything looks like it can be done with adb except for "flash_image recovery recovery.img" Dec 07 03:10:03 flaushy: dev on the iphone is horrifffffic Dec 07 03:10:05 brocktice: looks like you need root for just that one command Dec 07 03:10:07 eldenz: available in 2009 Dec 07 03:10:23 maqr, Ah, that I'm not sure about. You will need to be root to do it. Not sure if root over adb would work. Dec 07 03:10:26 you can turn a normal g1 into a dev g1 now :) Dec 07 03:10:32 pfft: push services are not really implemented int he networks Dec 07 03:10:43 DarkriftX: if you feel like risking it ;-) Dec 07 03:10:44 pfft: 300 mb on tmo is 24 euro Dec 07 03:10:50 DarkriftX, Yeah if it's not up to stock RC30. Dec 07 03:10:54 pfft: unlimited now at 40 euro Dec 07 03:10:55 flaushy: no one uses push services much here Dec 07 03:10:58 hey swetland what is this about androids on skateboards anyway? my bootloader doesn't have that :) Dec 07 03:11:08 flashing a bootloader? thousands of htc users do it every day :S Dec 07 03:11:15 its new for the g1, but not for htc phones Dec 07 03:11:29 flaushy: push is overrated until the apps are more mature for it Dec 07 03:11:36 so soon we can have root again? :D Dec 07 03:11:38 pfft: what do you want to do with expensive data tarifs? it stops popularity of blackberry etc Dec 07 03:11:39 morrildl: thats supposedly whats seen on the developer bootloader Dec 07 03:11:42 ive seen a picture of it Dec 07 03:11:51 DarkriftX, instructions for the engineering image say it requires root. Dec 07 03:11:52 pfft: 2004 we paid like 10 cents per 10 KB Dec 07 03:11:54 flaushy: oh ... i see Dec 07 03:12:04 flaushy: thats nasty Dec 07 03:12:06 yes brocktice Dec 07 03:12:14 that will be available to you in a couple weeks Dec 07 03:12:15 :) Dec 07 03:12:18 pfft: always remember:EUR cents Dec 07 03:12:44 flaushy: EUR cents??? Dec 07 03:12:47 pfft: so take it with 1.3 (atm) to 1.5 (4 months ago) Dec 07 03:12:55 DarkriftX, I did see that they got the NAND image recently. Dec 07 03:12:58 pfft: 1 Euro is 1.3 USD atm Dec 07 03:13:08 flaushy: yes, i see Dec 07 03:13:26 pfft: a minute with tmo is still at 19 cents Dec 07 03:13:33 flaushy: oh i see ... yes those prices are _way_ too high Dec 07 03:14:00 pfft: Austria is at 4 cents i think, we hit 9 cents with discounters couple of months ago Dec 07 03:14:24 flaushy: so maybe our dismantling of the phone companies here in the US was not such a bad idea Dec 07 03:14:33 pfft: that explains it as well, why germany is way behind in mobile stuff Dec 07 03:14:49 pfft: we have a good competition in the cell market Dec 07 03:15:14 flaushy: but not with data rate charges apparently Dec 07 03:15:17 pfft: but they bought the UMTS licenses at a way to high price at auctions Dec 07 03:15:35 pfft: about 8 billion euro it was i think, per license Dec 07 03:15:59 flaushy: so ... good competition, but high prices everywhere? Dec 07 03:16:03 * maqr watches this tiny yellow bar make its way across the screen Dec 07 03:16:17 pfft: wanna move it to query? Dec 07 03:16:19 flaushy: who did the 8 gazzillion EUR go to? Dec 07 03:16:34 JesusFreke: btw, are you the one responsible for this very scary "system recovery utility" background image? Dec 07 03:16:36 pfft: germany directly Dec 07 03:16:47 JesusFreke: you know, the one that makes it look like you bricked the phone because it doesn't have a menu of things you can press? Dec 07 03:17:09 pfft: but Vodafone swallowed one big player, and got tax refunds ins Billions Euro region from germany as well -.- Dec 07 03:17:42 flaushy: thats ok .. thaks for the info Dec 07 03:17:45 thanks Dec 07 03:18:03 pfft: but as i said, german telecom sucks us dry, and expands heavily on other markets. Germany is their cash cow Dec 07 03:19:04 pfft: uh another thing in germany: we pay like 20 cents per SMS Dec 07 03:19:28 What do you guys think of the Android Dev Phone 1? Worth it? Dec 07 03:20:43 chuck: if it supported the att bands, it'd probably be worth it Dec 07 03:20:59 flaushy, No wonder my Bob card ran out so fast in M?nchen. Dec 07 03:21:08 DarkriftX just curious, how do you know a few weeks 'til we can reflash? Dec 07 03:21:17 maqr, oh fuck, it doesn't support AT&T? Dec 07 03:21:19 It's inevitable. Dec 07 03:21:28 * chuck might start crying Dec 07 03:21:29 soem ppl are working on a method Dec 07 03:21:31 ;-) Dec 07 03:21:33 it works, but its risky right now Dec 07 03:21:36 :D Dec 07 03:21:36 chuck: well, probably not the 3g one Dec 07 03:21:39 chuck: err, the 3g part Dec 07 03:21:40 they are perfecting it and will release it Dec 07 03:21:45 roooot! Dec 07 03:21:59 ok, i just flashed with the JesusFreke's rc30 Dec 07 03:22:02 awesome. Dec 07 03:22:08 they will not release it till its safe to avoid bricks being returned and tmo getting strict Dec 07 03:22:11 maqr, congrats :) Dec 07 03:22:17 maqr: AT&T's 3G spectrum is non-standard for GSM, so only GSM phones built explicitly for AT&T will work, in general Dec 07 03:22:23 "su root" sweet! Dec 07 03:22:28 brocktice: tyty Dec 07 03:22:28 Bricking + returning to Tmo = ruins it for everyone Dec 07 03:22:32 maqr: the device will work on AT&T's 2G (EDGE) network fine Dec 07 03:22:35 JesusFreke: much love, excellent job Dec 07 03:22:47 morrildl: yeah, that's what i'd expected... they didn't officially announce that yet though, did they? Dec 07 03:22:50 *i'd expect Dec 07 03:22:53 JesusFreke, did you get back root eventually? Dec 07 03:23:00 I remember reading you were "out of the game" Dec 07 03:23:05 Which is actually when I gave up. Dec 07 03:23:06 maqr: who did't announce what? Dec 07 03:23:23 morrildl: google didn't officially announce what the specs would be on the dev phone yet, did they? Dec 07 03:23:31 brocktice: roaming charges are again way to high Dec 07 03:23:51 brock: I just bought a new phone, and sold the old one. heh Dec 07 03:23:56 grr g1 is in uk only avail with monthly plan for 30 pounds Dec 07 03:23:58 JesusFreke, Ahh Dec 07 03:24:09 flaushy: plus data? Dec 07 03:24:22 maqr, what about EDGE? Dec 07 03:24:22 maqr: well, we did, but to view the specs you have to log in to a Market account first. In general the specs are the same as the G1, it's the same base hardware Dec 07 03:24:28 chuck: morrildl just said that'd work Dec 07 03:24:30 unix_infidel: no inclusive ... but i need one in germany ... Dec 07 03:24:30 flaushy, 30 pounds? O_O Dec 07 03:24:40 maqr, oh, I overlooked that, awesome Dec 07 03:24:46 morrildl: ah, i haven't signed up for a market account yet... are there any differences? Dec 07 03:24:49 morrildl, you're sure it will work with EDGE? Dec 07 03:24:55 maqr, The back cover. Dec 07 03:25:01 chuck: his reasoning makes sense, it should work Dec 07 03:25:03 brocktice: besides that :P Dec 07 03:25:10 Also, is it a 1600 mAh battery? Dec 07 03:25:16 chuck: yeah,18 month plan ... Dec 07 03:25:19 Or are those only aftermarket? Dec 07 03:25:23 i could use a bigger battery Dec 07 03:25:31 maqr, we all could Dec 07 03:25:54 whenever i'm at my desk i just plug in the phone to charge it though Dec 07 03:25:59 This charging the phone multiple times a day is like 1997 all over again. Dec 07 03:26:04 not too bad from a user point of view Dec 07 03:26:10 brocktice: yeah, but it's not like i'm not at a computer most of the day anyway Dec 07 03:26:20 My Razr2 lasted several days, so I never had to go "Oh crap, my battery just died and I'm far from home." Dec 07 03:26:21 brocktice: at least it doesn't go through activesync-style hell every time i plug it in Dec 07 03:26:50 That has happened with the G1. Dec 07 03:27:00 hasn't happened to me, works 100% smoothly Dec 07 03:27:03 brocktice: yea i think i'm going to have to carry my blackberry curve with me in a spare back just in case my G1 does. Dec 07 03:27:06 dies* Dec 07 03:27:11 $400 seems like a lot though :< Dec 07 03:27:26 chuck, It's the price of a device without a subsidy. Dec 07 03:27:27 -rw-r--r-- 1 ahaberlach 5000 417127728 Dec 6 17:53 ROMEO_JULIET.m4v Dec 07 03:27:36 417 mb? Dec 07 03:27:46 i just got my phone a few days ago for $180, before i heard about the MS thing Dec 07 03:27:48 Did you use a Handbrake preset? Dec 07 03:27:51 i should probably call tmo about it and bitch Dec 07 03:27:55 MS? Dec 07 03:28:19 maqr, Tmo is usually pretty friendly, so they might take it well. Dec 07 03:28:23 (for the folks asking about my video) Dec 07 03:28:23 It's 2 hours running time. Dec 07 03:28:38 I think they put prozac in the water at tmo call centers. Dec 07 03:28:54 brocktice, how open is the android? could one install a package manager onto it, for example? Dec 07 03:29:03 * chuck is mainly thinking of the telesphoreo project Dec 07 03:29:04 ahaberlach is gettin his romance on Dec 07 03:29:22 chuck, My understanding is that you can flash whatever onto it. Dec 07 03:29:35 At your own risk of course. Dec 07 03:30:24 morrildl : I actually own very few DVDs. That was the nearest one. Dec 07 03:30:33 heh :) Dec 07 03:31:00 The Android build system and tools do not support the obsolete PowerPC architecture. Dec 07 03:31:05 PowerPC is *not* obselete. Dec 07 03:31:07 So is this DVD ripping experiment just one microscopic cog in your catastrophic plan, which also involves NetFlix? ;) Dec 07 03:31:34 morrildl: get xvid support going and we wont have to use netflix ;-) Dec 07 03:31:36 * morrildl spreads his arms and clears space in the crowd Dec 07 03:32:13 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE NOW BEGIN TONIGHT'S PROCESSOR ARCHITECTURE GRUDGE MATCH Dec 07 03:32:14 I dunno. I should've done this before I went to Texas last week so I'd have something to watch on the plane. Dec 07 03:32:16 Crap, I also don't have a case-sensitive filesystem installed, because it breaks so many poorly written apps. Dec 07 03:32:31 Although the little darling child of ours cried pretty much the whole time, so it wouldn't have been so useful. Dec 07 03:32:32 morrildl, Sorry, I just thought that was a misstatement in the andriod docs. Dec 07 03:32:42 brocktice: ;) Dec 07 03:32:47 didn't mean to start a war Dec 07 03:32:50 lol Dec 07 03:32:51 Qantus has on-demand for every seat, so it's a backup for the flight to Sydney next month. Dec 07 03:32:58 It's many things but obselete is not exactly the right term. Dec 07 03:33:14 yeah, we should probably say discontinued there or something Dec 07 03:33:15 brocktice: in desktop area it is Dec 07 03:33:25 flaushy, touch? Dec 07 03:33:34 But outside of the desktop I'm sure IBM would beg to differ. Dec 07 03:33:51 brocktice: yepe, embedded it is big :) Dec 07 03:33:56 ha, I had forgotten that IBM still uses them Dec 07 03:34:03 Oh, and you know, Blue Gene Dec 07 03:34:05 that is one of the reasons i got a late powerbook Dec 07 03:34:25 yeah, but supercomputing is not quite the area for mobile developers :P Dec 07 03:34:41 Is anyone making _new_ machines with PPC? Dec 07 03:34:46 many printers use them as well. Dec 07 03:34:49 ahaberlach: Sydney, eh? Fun! Dec 07 03:34:52 ahaberlach, yes, the top500 #4 and 5 Dec 07 03:34:53 ok, so, now i'm root and i have the sdk... is there anything else i should be aware of before i start hacking at it? Dec 07 03:35:04 maqr, Don't do rm -rf /* Dec 07 03:35:12 ahaberlach: desktop i dont think so, embedded, millions ... Dec 07 03:35:15 brocktice: heh Dec 07 03:35:50 *yawn* Dec 07 03:35:58 brocktice: one thing i'm wondering about, what the hell is AndroidMod and why did I use it? Dec 07 03:36:03 it worked fine and all, but i'm not sure i understand it Dec 07 03:36:19 maqr, The G1 is signed cryptographically to only take signed updates. Dec 07 03:36:24 However, it had a root hole. Dec 07 03:36:51 That hole allows you to flash a new set of system images that do not require signed images from Google/Tmobile Dec 07 03:36:54 Once you've flashed them you can then install customized updates that, say, retain root access. Dec 07 03:37:17 "signed cryptographically" is a misstatement but you get the idea. Dec 07 03:37:32 yeah, i know how signing works... but AndroidMod is what, exactly? a boot loader? Dec 07 03:37:41 Recovery image, I think. Dec 07 03:37:42 replace it with "trusted" Dec 07 03:37:59 flaushy, Well, the G1 is not signed per se, it's configured to require signed images. Dec 07 03:38:21 brocktice: sure. i would require that if i was tmo ... Dec 07 03:38:25 so the thing i saw when i booted with home/power? that's not supposed to be on the g1 by default? that was the AndroidMod? Dec 07 03:38:42 No that's there. Dec 07 03:38:52 But it's been replaced with one that's not as picky about what it flashes. Dec 07 03:39:09 and how did it get fixed to do that? Dec 07 03:39:14 Magic. Dec 07 03:39:19 and JesusFreke et al. Dec 07 03:39:30 i'd really love to know how they made that image Dec 07 03:39:36 the rest of it i think i pretty much understand Dec 07 03:39:42 They just re-signed the proper update. Dec 07 03:39:48 With a development key or some such. Dec 07 03:40:06 but did they build it from the official android source? Dec 07 03:40:18 No, I think they built it from the OTA updates (official). Dec 07 03:40:38 Oh wait. yes maybe. I should shut up because I don't think I know. Dec 07 03:40:40 for the AndroidMod, i mean Dec 07 03:40:57 * maqr is checking out the source with git now Dec 07 03:40:58 which would be better, a new Android Dev Phone 1 device or an unlocked G1 off of ebay? Dec 07 03:41:29 The Android Dev Phone has the bitchin' design on the back... Dec 07 03:41:33 maqr, I'm trying to get repo installed on OSX to do the same. Dec 07 03:41:39 ahaberlach, Yeah but is it a $400 design? Dec 07 03:41:52 Are the non-Dev ones SIM-unlocked? I suppose you get that after 90 days with T-Mo, though. Dec 07 03:42:42 brocktice: yeah, i just realized i need repo too :/ Dec 07 03:44:00 ahaberlach, I know dude, it's awesome Dec 07 03:44:09 morrildl: this is for you: http://osnews.com/story/20616/eComStation_2_0_RC6a_Available Dec 07 03:44:14 ahaberlach, How much are the T-Mobile ones? Dec 07 03:44:20 jbq: hahahaha Dec 07 03:44:31 * chuck is fine with registering with google as a developer, especially since their prices are *way way way* better than Apple's for their program >< Dec 07 03:47:47 what does the $25 actually buy you, btw? just the ability to push to the Market? Dec 07 03:48:09 brocktice: repo is just a shell script btw, works fine here in cygwin Dec 07 03:48:28 maqr, and the ability to buy a phone. Dec 07 03:49:01 maqr, there's a Repo script, but then it brings down the latest version of "Repo" the doc says? Dec 07 03:50:11 brocktice: seems to be working, i'm following the directions Dec 07 03:50:26 yeah it seems to create a config directory and such Dec 07 03:50:46 I suppose as mistakes go, $200 is not that bad. Dec 07 03:50:55 Beats backing into a fixed object or something with the car. Dec 07 03:51:36 true Dec 07 03:51:45 brocktice: i'm sure it'll be unlocked soon enough Dec 07 03:52:19 If I bricked it it would have been a $400 mistake. Dec 07 03:52:32 it doesn't look possible to brick it Dec 07 03:52:39 i just did the update and it worked really easily Dec 07 03:53:08 maqr, and the ability to get an android device without being a customer of one of the brethern in the OHA Dec 07 03:53:22 morrildl: T-Mobile gave someone a warranty replacement with the unlocked bootloader Dec 07 03:53:28 sorry... I was out shopping when the stuff was going down Dec 07 03:53:31 chuck: well, yeah, but that doesn't help :P Dec 07 03:53:40 any idea how long until apps are going to be for sale? Dec 07 03:53:50 maqr, Aren't they already on sale? O_o Dec 07 03:53:55 maqr, I thought it's january. Dec 07 03:53:55 with the release of the G1 and all that Dec 07 03:54:02 chuck: no, they're all free right now Dec 07 03:54:06 oh.. Dec 07 03:54:06 morrildl: but yes - that phone got shipped out about a month ago... but that guy has been busy / unavailable... took a while to figure out how to properly dump / reflash it Dec 07 03:54:23 brocktice: i'm wondering how that agreement will work for small developers... maybe i can make a really good app and encourage people to pay me $1 for it? Dec 07 03:54:35 maqr, Or you eat the $25. Dec 07 03:54:44 I haven't even tried an android device yet, though, we have no real T-Mobile stores, only resellers with fun, plastic, non-working G1s >> Dec 07 03:55:00 Kind of lame, but it's not that steep. Dec 07 03:55:13 The price of greatness as my old boss would say. Dec 07 03:55:20 brocktice, yeah, especially when compared to $100/year for apple's program Dec 07 03:55:21 RyeBrye: neat :) Dec 07 03:55:30 Wait, that's *per year*? Dec 07 03:56:01 brocktice, apple's is, yes Dec 07 03:56:04 Jaysus Dec 07 03:56:07 * morrildl did not know that Dec 07 03:56:15 highway robbery Dec 07 03:56:30 not to mention the agreement they make you sign Dec 07 03:56:36 the android tree is not small Dec 07 03:56:41 basically you can't even discuss your app ideas with anyone who hasn't signed it Dec 07 03:56:52 can someone with a Market login tell me if you can change your publisher name after you sign up? Dec 07 03:57:00 does Google filter applications based on their content? (as in, not if they're blatant viruses and whatnot) but would they let in an email client, for example? Dec 07 03:57:02 ismarc, And also that they have no real guidlines and they can just pull your app if they don't like it. Dec 07 03:57:04 ismarc, I think they got rid of that Dec 07 03:57:12 chuck, There already is an email client. Dec 07 03:57:19 brocktice, I'm just giving an example Dec 07 03:57:36 They don't seem to. Dec 07 03:57:42 Because Apple will not approve of any sort of applications that duplicate applications that come with the iPhone Dec 07 03:57:46 they removed some restrictions, but there's a lot in place Dec 07 03:57:51 I'll have to review it on Monday Dec 07 03:57:57 morrildl: That's why for the past few weeks we've been dropping hints about how we knew that there were some engineering bootloaders out in the wild :) Dec 07 03:58:12 alright, off to bedfordshire. Night all. Dec 07 03:58:19 ismarc, yeah, I personally haven't read it since I signed one myself, my knowledge on it comes from engadget now Dec 07 03:58:24 morrildl: I can't imagine it is just 1 phone out of the 600,000 that had it - but I imagine the % is very low. So... he basically won the lottery Dec 07 03:59:01 RyeBrye: you work for htc? Dec 07 03:59:06 me? hell no Dec 07 03:59:28 Apple also won't approve of applications that use certain frameworks, like ones that control the proximity sensor, TV Video Out, etc. Dec 07 03:59:46 Yeah, Apple are control freaks Dec 07 03:59:55 get them both Dec 07 04:00:05 which would be better, a new Android Dev Phone 1 device or an unlocked G1 off of ebay? Dec 07 04:00:12 Technically, one of Google's applications shouldn't even be in the app store, as it used the proximity sensor libraries, but Apple won't take it down, as they're both corporate friends >_> Dec 07 04:00:26 gosh ... how much hassle it is to check shipping costs of dev g1 to germany ... Dec 07 04:00:28 elad, I'm not that rich :P Dec 07 04:00:38 * unix_infidel wonders if the G1 has video out ;-) Dec 07 04:00:59 unix_infidel: the MSM7201A has video out - yes - but there's not anything connected to it on the G1 Dec 07 04:01:10 unix_infidel: So.. get out your soldering iron, and then spend a long time figuring out hte specs Dec 07 04:01:37 the MSM7201A is also capable of driving an external monitor - like a video projector or something - but that's also not being used on the G1 Dec 07 04:01:40 is there a way to check shipping costs to germany without paying the fee? Dec 07 04:02:00 flaushy: don't bother, just get an unlocked g1 (or local one) and flash the engineering bootloader. Dec 07 04:02:14 Disconnect: unlocked ones are at 400+ Euro here Dec 07 04:02:20 so 500+ USD Dec 07 04:02:51 it'll be at least htat much for a dev unit Dec 07 04:03:00 and some are even selling from usa, meaning we have to add customs Dec 07 04:03:01 425USD + 120-someting Dec 07 04:03:10 ouch Dec 07 04:03:24 and I thought I was paying a crazy premium for my phone + data contract in the states... Dec 07 04:03:26 I'm wondering if the large shipping charge for me in Canada is due to GST. Dec 07 04:03:41 because that would make some amount of sense. Dec 07 04:04:05 unix_infidel: hey, i know you, you got a g1 too? :p Dec 07 04:04:26 brocktice: repo worked correctly here in cygwin btw Dec 07 04:04:38 maqr: for now... Dec 07 04:04:41 Disconnect: thx for the info Dec 07 04:05:02 http://www.ent.eetchina.com/PDF/2007FEB/DTCOL_2007FEB15_AVDE_RFR_AN_01.pdf?SOURCES=DOWNLOAD shows what the MSM7200 can do Dec 07 04:05:09 unix_infidel: what's wrong? Dec 07 04:05:54 RyeBrye: which would make the iPhone a perfect in car dockable device. Dec 07 04:05:55 TV-out, along with 2 MMDI - 1 for LCD and 1 for external monitor, USB on the Go... etc Dec 07 04:06:29 Rye- nice Dec 07 04:06:42 but obviously we'll never make use of those capabilities on the G1 Dec 07 04:06:49 :-( Dec 07 04:07:10 We only have 11 pins coming out of the case. so we get audio + usb Dec 07 04:07:19 USB on the go, perhaps, we can enable with a power + data cable Dec 07 04:07:46 what about stereo? Dec 07 04:08:00 Perhaps the Qvideophone, Qcamcorder (video recorder) and some other stuff could be tapped into at some point, dunno Dec 07 04:08:18 anyone tried the R2 SDK? Dec 07 04:08:39 is it actually possible this htc dream is a usb host? Dec 07 04:08:42 or is that just rumour? Dec 07 04:09:11 rumor. it doesn't have the supporting hardware to do it. Dec 07 04:09:23 oh, ok Dec 07 04:09:37 i wouldn't have thought it would, with that tiny usb port Dec 07 04:10:58 * unix_infidel wishes the screen unlock would turn off when it sees my inhome WAP. Dec 07 04:11:24 unix_infidel, do you have a G1? Dec 07 04:15:03 brocktice: only problem is, i have no idea where the hell it's downloading the repository to Dec 07 04:15:35 maqr: other HTC devices have usb host if you use a special cable that provides data + power at the same time. We haven't gotten that far with the G1, but it's conceivable that it's got USB host that could work Dec 07 04:16:20 RyeBrye: oh, wow, that'd be awesome Dec 07 04:17:00 I know I, for one, would carry around a battery-powered USB host cable - with the battery pack in one pocket, and a full-sized Sun Type 6 keyboard connected to my phone so I could SMS at 100 WPM Dec 07 04:17:04 ;) Dec 07 04:17:16 RyeBrye, haha, nice Dec 07 04:20:35 RyeBrye: i'd actually consider using it for web development if there's ever a firefox port :p Dec 07 04:21:24 maqr: likely a fennec port. Dec 07 04:21:54 though i'd rather see a chrome-like greasemonkey like framework before a fennec port. Dec 07 04:23:45 unix_infidel: anything i can firebug with :) Dec 07 04:24:26 Does anyone know if it would be possible to port APT to the Android and provide it through the Market? As in, is it technilogically possible, and will Google accept it? Dec 07 04:24:58 I'm not sure if the market terms allow you to sell other download management systems. Dec 07 04:25:05 But I'm far from the last word on such things. Dec 07 04:25:09 chuck: that might be against the market ToS. Dec 07 04:25:20 but I know about as much as ahaberlach does. Dec 07 04:25:26 * ahaberlach high-fives jbq. Dec 07 04:25:36 that's too bad =( Dec 07 04:25:47 So much for it being an Open Platform.. Dec 07 04:25:53 Well, it's only "too bad" if it's not possible. :) Dec 07 04:26:10 the openness of the platform allows you to put it on any web site you want. Dec 07 04:26:26 Also, I would suspect that most of the stuff from apt would be native code. Dec 07 04:26:31 it is. handango tried and it's against TOS Dec 07 04:26:31 * chuck wonders if there will ever be a truely open phone that still looks and works good (so OpenMoko doesn't count ;-) Dec 07 04:26:37 APT as in apt-get? (debian)? Dec 07 04:26:38 Anyway, what're you trying to do? Dec 07 04:26:42 andyross, 'tis, apt is probably written in C or C++ Dec 07 04:26:45 oops Dec 07 04:26:48 * ahaberlach Dec 07 04:26:49 that's more then likely not going to hit the market Dec 07 04:26:59 as it's not java for one, and two most people who would want it... have a rooted device Dec 07 04:27:08 so it being in the market would be useless Dec 07 04:27:14 chuck: that's not really the phone, it's really the market ToS at play here. Dec 07 04:27:24 chuck: yeah there will be, Freerunner might be out of question for you, but maybe other phones come up with OM Dec 07 04:27:31 * ahaberlach wonders if he just got sucked into another "I want to be able to use a shell on my phone" discussion. Dec 07 04:27:32 chuck, you can make it available. Dec 07 04:27:38 The platform is open, just not the market. Dec 07 04:28:07 ahaberlach, there's a project called Telesphoreo (http://www.telesphoreo.org/) that aims to get APT package management on "modern smartphones". Currently, it runs very well on the iPhone. Dec 07 04:28:28 and it's completely open, you can add whatever sources you want, and most of the default sources will even host packages for you Dec 07 04:30:38 I'd really like to see Android evolve such that Market doesn't require any special permissions, i.e. where any application could install and uninstall packages without putting security in jeopardy. Dec 07 04:30:52 * flaushy would like to have a good platform in the first place, that gives him fast results to code Dec 07 04:31:12 chuck : So, uh, once again -- what are you trying to do? :) Dec 07 04:31:23 jbq: yepe. a good sandbox :) Dec 07 04:32:15 ahaberlach, I want an Android device, but not if it's fairly closed. The fact that it can't run any native code (and apparently doesn't even have a shell?) means that a lot of nice utilities can't even be ported to it.. Dec 07 04:32:22 Well, that helps with security, and you can even do some neat tricks with the kernel to isolate CPU usage and the like. Dec 07 04:32:38 But how is it going to keep me from eating your batteries? Dec 07 04:32:41 J2ME is a joke as far as i know. IPhone with the market is too restrictive for "i just want to code to learn", price tag too heavy :( Dec 07 04:32:43 chuck: have you tried "adb shell"? There's a shell in there. Dec 07 04:33:03 chuck : So, I think I understand what you want, but I've never understood why. Dec 07 04:34:08 so, where is the extract-files.sh in the android platform repository/ Dec 07 04:34:15 flaushy, Well, it's not all that restrictive if your Jailbreak it Dec 07 04:34:21 I can't find it with "find . -name extract-files.sh" Dec 07 04:34:22 In fact, it's not restrictive at all Dec 07 04:34:44 chuck: apt on android isn't that unfeasible. Youv'e heard of Cydia for iPhone? Saurik wrote it and it's basically apt for iphone Dec 07 04:35:03 chuck: but as far as an official apt replacing market, that's not really practical or wanted Dec 07 04:35:06 RyeBrye, Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, Cydia is the front end for telesphoreo Dec 07 04:35:28 chuck: iphones are very limited IMO. One device, one vendor (at least in germany), one architecture, one market. Jailbreak is IMO out of question. I want to keep my 2 year warranty within germany Dec 07 04:35:43 hmm. The Wi-Fi radio shut off when the screen blanks? Dec 07 04:35:47 s//Does Dec 07 04:35:56 offby1: two minutes after the screen blanks, yes Dec 07 04:35:56 Yeah, apt doesn't replace the AppStore on the iPhone either, but its nice to get things like screen, openssh, appliations that apple doesn't want in their store, etc. Dec 07 04:35:57 chuck: you can run a full debian chroot on the G1, so... you can do whatever the hell you want Dec 07 04:36:03 offby1 : I believe it is two minutes after the scren blanks that we power down the WiFi in order to save power. Dec 07 04:36:04 IF you have a rooted one Dec 07 04:36:10 *nod Dec 07 04:36:22 On the assumption that your mobile network is sufficient for stuff if you're not actively using the device. Dec 07 04:36:51 flaushy, sounds a little like Android at the moment ;-) Dec 07 04:37:00 Ok, assumption is a pretty strong word. We've done some testing. :) Dec 07 04:37:21 chuck: if i cant install apps without going through market,then it dies instantly for me. Dec 07 04:37:23 If you have a rooted one, or you have a Dev on... Dec 07 04:37:44 You can install apps from any website, if you turn on the "trust other sites" option in settings. Dec 07 04:37:57 this 'repo sync' is taking *forever* Dec 07 04:38:04 chuck: and there are more android cells to come,there will always be only one iphone ... Dec 07 04:38:24 maqr: have you tried `repo sync-faster`? (j/k :o) Dec 07 04:38:32 xsdg: i haven't, but heya :) Dec 07 04:38:44 ahaberlach, so does the dev phone have less restrictions? Dec 07 04:38:44 maqr, Mine's been done a while Dec 07 04:38:50 If only I could find the dream build stuff Dec 07 04:38:50 * maqr is formerly known as hax, in case you don't remember :p Dec 07 04:38:55 ahaberlach: thx for the info :) Dec 07 04:39:00 maqr: aah, cool Dec 07 04:39:01 brocktice: i don't wanna build as much as i wanna poke Dec 07 04:39:03 chuck : Flash whatever you want on it. :) Dec 07 04:39:05 maqr: how's it going? Dec 07 04:39:12 xsdg: going good, just got my rooted g1, thanks to JesusFreke Dec 07 04:39:19 Heck, port freeBSD to it, and try to get the iPhone to run. :) Dec 07 04:39:21 chuck: the dev phone is like a playground - it has no restrictions really except I bet the radio is off limits (it's not sim locked, but you probably can't turn it into a GSM sniffer or anything) Dec 07 04:39:26 anyone knows how it is with freerunner flashed to android? Can I install apps from weherever? Dec 07 04:39:26 xsdg: got my sdk working and such, gonna start writing apps Dec 07 04:39:37 maqr: cool Dec 07 04:39:42 I got the blobs off of the Dream. Dec 07 04:39:51 Not some 300MB as was stated earlier. Must be some confusion. Dec 07 04:40:16 the git tree is 1.6 GB?! Dec 07 04:40:25 brocktice: magic! *g* Dec 07 04:40:40 brocktice: welcome to "Android is an operating system" Dec 07 04:41:00 maqr: What kind of apps? :) Dec 07 04:41:09 xsdg, Thanks, can you tell me where I might find the platform/vendor stuff? Dec 07 04:41:18 Doesn't seem to be under the "entire platform" Dec 07 04:41:19 Nafai: don't know yet, depends how much of the UI i can alter Dec 07 04:41:33 brocktice: nope. swetland could if he were around Dec 07 04:41:37 brocktice: 1.6GB sounds about reasonable, i'm just gonna let it crank until it tells me it's done Dec 07 04:41:40 brocktice: or someone else might remember Dec 07 04:41:44 Ah ok I'll bug him later Dec 07 04:41:45 Thanks Dec 07 04:41:49 np Dec 07 04:41:53 I should probably learn how to use git properly. Dec 07 04:41:54 brocktice: it's all going into ~/.repo for some reason though, not ~/mydroid Dec 07 04:41:55 Then I would know. Dec 07 04:42:02 maqr, That's strange. Dec 07 04:42:18 i figure it knows what it's doing, i followed the directions Dec 07 04:42:29 it probably copies over stuff when it's done, or something Dec 07 04:45:08 Hm, the remote end is hanging up on me when I try to git that stuff. Dec 07 04:45:37 brocktice: try again. this happens sometimes. Dec 07 04:45:39 maybe because i'm downloading it? Dec 07 04:47:05 brocktice: what vendor platform do you want? Dec 07 04:47:13 brocktice: do you have it set to pull the G1 stuff? Dec 07 04:47:15 RyeBrye, htc dream Dec 07 04:47:22 Nope Dec 07 04:47:24 I posted instructions on a wiki somehwere Dec 07 04:47:34 OK, I'll FGI then. Dec 07 04:47:46 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Building_the_HTC_Dream_Platform Dec 07 04:47:54 I think that works - you have to basically put that manifest file there somewhere Dec 07 04:48:07 the local_manifest is necessary to get it to pull the files Dec 07 04:48:08 RyeBrye, excellent, thanks! Dec 07 04:48:20 ymmv - but that still works for me. if you find stuff has changed since then, please update the wiki Dec 07 04:48:23 oh crap I forgot I need to put the whole thing on a case-sensitive disk image. Dec 07 04:48:28 Will do. Dec 07 04:48:39 yeah, you'll probably have to re-check it out to get it to work Dec 07 04:48:41 :( Dec 07 04:48:46 such is life. Dec 07 04:48:56 OK, will try tomorrow. Now actually going to bed. Dec 07 04:49:09 case-sensitive disk image is far superior to repartitioning your drive Dec 07 04:49:22 +1 Dec 07 04:49:29 oh, and fwiw - swetland gave me those instructions when I asked a while ago Dec 07 04:51:57 i wish google had chosen someone besides tmo Dec 07 04:52:08 they are fucking rediculous Dec 07 04:53:04 they fucked up my credit check, then ran my wifes and when i decided to do it under mine, they told me they would have to rerun the credit check, so we just stuck with hers, now i cant do shit on the account because they need a females voice to tell them the pin Dec 07 04:53:58 Hmm. And nobody has yet written an application to change your voice during a phone call... Dec 07 04:54:08 RyeBrye: the HTC drivers are closed, right? Dec 07 04:54:18 So you can't just use the 'femaleulator' mode. Dec 07 04:54:21 RyeBrye: as in, it's not possible to do a 100%-from-source build of the g1 and install it? Dec 07 04:54:42 maqr: yes, but a lot of them are getting opened up soon - you can see them sitting in the 2.6.27 branch Dec 07 04:54:44 lol Dec 07 04:54:45 The kernel stuff is all committed into the mainline Linux kernel. Dec 07 04:55:08 RyeBrye: is it expected that at some point we can build everything for the phone and make our own images? Dec 07 04:55:11 ahaberlach: is it in 2.6.27 mainline? or are you in the merge window for 2.6.28? Dec 07 04:55:28 maqr: I already do - but the proprietary google stuff has to be copied Dec 07 04:55:28 * ahaberlach dunno. I know that swetland is big on having stuff go into the core. Dec 07 04:55:57 heh ahaberlach Dec 07 04:55:59 DarkriftX: thanks for confirmation that tmo is strange even outside germany Dec 07 04:56:07 ahaberlach: the only reason I ask is because of timing... you have to have your crap sitting and waiting for the merge window to open - and the once the merge window closes the stuff waits for the next merge window Dec 07 04:56:28 maqr: afaik the wlan will not open but thats mostly it. the apps are a different story tho. Dec 07 04:56:31 So if it was just recently put in place, it might not hit mainline until 2.6.29 or something Dec 07 04:56:34 That'd really be a question for swetland Dec 07 04:56:38 Hmm. I don't know specifics, just the generals. :) Dec 07 04:56:40 jbq don't you sleep? Dec 07 04:56:40 it' not a huge deal Dec 07 04:56:50 I'd leave it as a question for General Swetland. Dec 07 04:56:50 seriously weird dude. you gotta sleep sometime.. Dec 07 04:56:54 RyeBrye: oh that's really cool Dec 07 04:57:10 Disconnect: it's 9pm, not time to sleep! Dec 07 04:57:23 RyeBrye: so you built everything from source besides some kernel modules, which you just copied and they worked? Dec 07 04:57:46 the only kernel module was wlan.ko - and it works if you set your magic version number to match what it wants Dec 07 04:57:46 heh. but istr i saw you at ungodly oclock (eastern time, prolly 10ish?) this mroning, too.. Dec 07 04:57:48 (actually, I've been catching some ZZZs during the day) Dec 07 04:57:55 ah cheating. i got it. :) Dec 07 04:58:05 Disconnect: yeah, I was up around 6:30pst Dec 07 04:58:38 I'm a morning person, though, so you're unlikely to see me after 10 or 11pm pacific time. Dec 07 04:59:11 infobot: dev phone Dec 07 04:59:33 infobot: stats Dec 07 04:59:34 Since Sat Dec 6 11:29:52 2008, there have been 28 modifications, 131 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 59 commands. I have been awake for 17h 29m 41s this session, and currently reference 115592 factoids. I'm using about 19852 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 1704.74/94.41 child 0.03/0.01 Dec 07 04:59:39 infobot devphones Dec 07 04:59:40 hmm... devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 07 04:59:45 Infobot doesn't seem to like spaces Dec 07 04:59:53 infobot dev\ phone Dec 07 05:00:02 infobot dev\ phone is a dev phone Dec 07 05:00:03 RyeBrye: okay Dec 07 05:00:08 infobot dev\ phone Dec 07 05:00:09 i heard dev\ phone is a dev phone Dec 07 05:00:12 LOL Dec 07 05:00:19 ok, it doesn't REALLY escape very well, does it? Dec 07 05:00:20 infobot: devphones is also http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 if you have root Dec 07 05:00:21 that's too long, Disconnect Dec 07 05:00:33 :) Dec 07 05:00:41 well don't read the article.. Dec 07 05:00:42 infobot: devphones is also http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Dec 07 05:00:43 Disconnect: okay Dec 07 05:01:03 Disconnect: that's not quite true - the unsigned bit is being worked out right now - but should be ready very shortly Dec 07 05:01:14 yah Dec 07 05:02:45 did ttuttle see that yet? Dec 07 05:02:49 or any googlers comment on the title? Dec 07 05:03:13 not yet :) Dec 07 05:03:31 infobot: owner Dec 07 05:03:32 TimRiker is my owner Dec 07 05:03:39 infobot: slave Dec 07 05:03:51 infobot: a slave is also known as an intern. See also: ttuttle Dec 07 05:03:52 okay, RyeBrye Dec 07 05:03:59 ;) Dec 07 05:04:08 lol Dec 07 05:05:01 ttuttle: you here? Dec 07 05:05:19 i was thinking of getting an invisishield Dec 07 05:05:22 are they worth it? Dec 07 05:05:41 I paid $8 for the bestshieldsever and it works fine Dec 07 05:05:44 or is there anything else more protective that might be more bulky? Dec 07 05:05:47 or maybe it's bestskinsever Dec 07 05:05:55 but Disconnect makes money if you buy from him Dec 07 05:05:58 ;) Dec 07 05:06:10 there used to be a cool gel case the the wizard i wanted, but not sure how that worked Dec 07 05:06:15 Is there a way to play music via bluetooth on the g1?? Dec 07 05:06:25 i love my invisishield Dec 07 05:06:32 mattgyver83: with a nick like that, I'm sure you can figure it out Dec 07 05:06:36 RyeBrye: im an affil of invisishields too lol Dec 07 05:06:48 full body cladding on the macbook, wif has a screen protector on her bb, and i bought the full body for the g1 but i think i'm only gonna use the screen protector Dec 07 05:07:12 couple of coworkers got various ones also, they are happy Dec 07 05:07:39 something like this: http://www.daydeal.com/product.php?productid=25438 Dec 07 05:08:40 thats pretty slick looking Dec 07 05:09:34 touché Dec 07 05:09:35 doesnt seem to be as protective as the wizard ones were Dec 07 05:11:53 DarkriftX : Neat! Dec 07 05:12:12 you should have seen the one i wanted for my wizard Dec 07 05:12:19 mattgyver83: A2DP isn't supported right now. Mono should work, though, iirc Dec 07 05:12:25 Is that "Wizard" like the guys who built the metal cases for PalmPilots back in 1997? Dec 07 05:12:30 Or was that someone else? Dec 07 05:12:35 it was much more form fitting and looked softer (like those gel mousepads) Dec 07 05:12:58 i suspect part of the a2dp problem is that the bt chip is run at 115200k Dec 07 05:13:13 er 115200 not k :) Dec 07 05:13:32 Yeah, the current release doesn't run the UART at high speed. Dec 07 05:13:47 ahaberlach: I think he means Sharp Wizard - the ones that have an entire Seinfeld episode devoted to them Dec 07 05:13:57 wow, "UART" ... there's a term I haven't heard in a while Dec 07 05:15:01 RyeBrye : Yeah. I think I was thinking of "Rhino" cases, anyway. 1997 (and my PalmPilot days) were a while ago. Dec 07 05:15:38 ahaberlach: I would hope that everyone's PalmPilot days were a while ago :) Dec 07 05:16:32 Hmm. These guys should make a G1 case: http://www.saunders-usa.com/rhinoskin/ Dec 07 05:17:11 ahaberlach: i was just telling somebody that Dec 07 05:17:56 Or those guys: http://www.vajacases.com/ I have a few of their cases, like them. Dec 07 05:18:12 Or this: http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip plus a lot of careful masking ;) Dec 07 05:18:17 lhi, its there a way to register with android market without google checkout ???? paypal??? or anything ??? Dec 07 05:18:29 I want to be enchanted by the irresistable aroma of their leather cases! Dec 07 05:18:30 P1ro: firstborn child Dec 07 05:18:40 huh ? Dec 07 05:18:42 !!! Dec 07 05:18:47 But only if your firstborn child has a Google checkout account. Dec 07 05:18:56 oh, ahaberlach has a good point Dec 07 05:19:21 infobot: devphones Dec 07 05:19:22 well, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2, or http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Dec 07 05:19:22 so only with google checkout ? Dec 07 05:19:23 P1ro, nope Dec 07 05:19:27 :( Dec 07 05:19:36 Ok, I've spent enough time decreasing the signal/noise ratio today. I'm outta here. Dec 07 05:20:23 yeah it has a really nice design on the back, I like it, it's strangely zune-esque Dec 07 05:21:26 I would have preferred if that back was used for something useful - like the periodic table of the elements, or a list of dex bytecodes, or a list of upcoming lottery-winning numbers or something Dec 07 05:21:33 lol Dec 07 05:21:37 get it etched Dec 07 05:21:43 anyone wanna change the color of thier g1? lol: http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=g1+rubber+shield&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title Dec 07 05:22:03 that's cheaper than colorware or whatever Dec 07 05:22:09 just a bit. lol Dec 07 05:23:09 oh well, I just spent the $264 for the Canadian shipping. go me. Dec 07 05:24:19 i think i found the one imma try: http://www.handhelditems.com/google-phone-rubber-case-black-free-screen-protector-p-19443.html Dec 07 05:24:36 orospakr: You could have shipped it to me, I woudl have repackaged it to look like bars of soap and re-shipped it for only $100 Dec 07 05:24:58 under $11 shipped Dec 07 05:25:10 DarkriftX http://www.resellerratings.com/store/HandHelditems :[ Dec 07 05:25:20 wouldn't suggest using them Dec 07 05:25:21 DarkriftX: http://www.bestskinsever.com/servlet/the-115/T-dsh-Mobile-G1-Skin/Detail is the one I have Dec 07 05:25:33 haha. Dec 07 05:26:57 its a little... thin... i want something that gives it better shock absorbtion Dec 07 05:27:10 not much, but a little Dec 07 05:27:20 DarkriftX: sorry to nitpick, but "absorPtion" Dec 07 05:27:21 right now i set it down sooo slowly its sad lol Dec 07 05:27:42 oh lol, dindt even notice i misspoelled it Dec 07 05:27:44 well wtf Dec 07 05:27:52 hi all Dec 07 05:27:59 DarkriftX: I've dropped mine plenty with that on it... It's designed like an F1 car - it blows into pieces and doesn't get hurt Dec 07 05:28:03 well... I guess F1 cars get hurt Dec 07 05:28:10 haha Dec 07 05:28:12 but the back will pop off and the battery sometimes pops out but the phone is fine Dec 07 05:28:17 anyone tried sdk r1_02 version Dec 07 05:28:33 anyone Dec 07 05:28:39 Bueller? Dec 07 05:28:41 I'm wating for sdk r2_d2 Dec 07 05:28:49 Bueller? Dec 07 05:30:09 hrmmmm, $7.50 shipped from that handhelditems place with coupon :( Dec 07 05:30:15 lemme read those reviews lol Dec 07 05:33:51 hi all, I added a string to string.xml but the R.java file does not have the resource id there. How do I solve this? Dec 07 05:35:37 for less than $9 shipped i think i can deal with a longer wait time Dec 07 05:36:19 louzer: can you give more details? how are you compiling? Can you make other changes that _are_ properly reflected when the app is run? other changes to string.xml? Dec 07 05:36:40 oh well Dec 07 05:39:40 anyone who wants the case in the above link use this coupon: htcg1access Dec 07 05:40:33 hhhi all Dec 07 05:40:51 anone here Dec 07 05:40:57 nobody here but us zombie processes. Dec 07 05:41:18 cool zombies Dec 07 05:43:53 any one trying r2 SDK Dec 07 05:54:37 infobot: fastboot Dec 07 05:55:03 what are unlock codes for the G1? Dec 07 05:57:22 OPE Dec 07 05:58:05 i got google checkout but my cc expired and now im only using paypal ! how can i do to get into android market??? Dec 07 06:00:48 RyeBrye: here Dec 07 06:01:06 infobot: what is an intern? Dec 07 06:01:08 ttuttle: what are you talking about? Dec 07 06:01:16 infobot: interrn Dec 07 06:01:18 infobot: what is a slave? Dec 07 06:01:19 somebody said slave was known as an intern. See also: ttuttle Dec 07 06:01:23 :) Dec 07 06:01:37 ttuttle: did you read that article? Dec 07 06:01:42 Article? Dec 07 06:01:42 ttuttle: my phone has fastboot, and a picture of a skating android :) Dec 07 06:01:47 RyeBrye: nice Dec 07 06:01:48 ttuttle: www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Dec 07 06:01:51 infobot devphones Dec 07 06:01:52 somebody said devphones was a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2, or ... Dec 07 06:01:54 http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Dec 07 06:01:59 lol Dec 07 06:02:30 lol. Dec 07 06:02:46 Loll. Dec 07 06:02:49 infobot: xk? Dec 07 06:02:50 it has been said that xk is 31337 Dec 07 06:03:00 wow, I didn't know browsers still blinked Dec 07 06:03:00 cool; it's a blootbot Dec 07 06:03:57 does the default engineering bootloader just have the rainbow + fastboot? the skateboarding android is a nice touch Dec 07 06:07:16 skateboarding android/ Dec 07 06:10:06 http://team-yacht-treff.de/fun/07122008062.jpg Dec 07 06:11:27 see germans have to sew their androids to have something real in their hands Dec 07 06:11:48 heh. Dec 07 06:12:38 ttuttle here's one pic for you: http://team-yacht-treff.de/fun/07122008062.jpg Dec 07 06:12:39 =) Dec 07 06:12:58 cmonex: u are about 2 minutes late ^^ Dec 07 06:13:21 its ok, i saw the pic before, just wanted to pick on ttuttle Dec 07 06:14:37 hmm another hour then i have to leave for work :/ Dec 07 06:16:05 * Disconnect updated the article Dec 07 06:22:29 * unix_infidel wonder what RyeBrye's wife will have to say when he bricks his G1 ;-) Dec 07 06:24:12 yay ... i might geht a kogan before i get a g1 :) Dec 07 06:24:22 assuming it exists Dec 07 06:25:04 kogan doesnt seem like much of a deal to me. Dec 07 06:25:13 we will see Dec 07 06:25:20 especially once we get IMF...*ahem* romain... Dec 07 06:25:30 uh? Dec 07 06:34:44 Hello, hello... Mmmm.... dev boot loader you say? (Man you guys are busy... Don't want to know what truck this fell off.) In all seriousness... Is there any docs out yet for the Android Developer Device? And does anyone know when it will ship? And is this skateboarding Android running on a G1 functionally identical to an ADD 1 (Android Dev Device 1)? Dec 07 06:35:28 bgupta: I know what truck it fell off of... T-mobile accidently shipped it out on a phone that happened to go straight to a hacker (woops) Dec 07 06:35:44 unix_infidel: My phone is now very hard to brick :) Dec 07 06:35:48 this is annoying me Dec 07 06:36:01 RyeBrye: it's now unsupported. Dec 07 06:36:03 trying to do a build of simply fastboot. its really mad. Dec 07 06:36:21 fastboot? Dec 07 06:36:45 ahh. Dec 07 06:36:46 unix_infidel: do you think he cares about "supported" ? Dec 07 06:36:55 Disconnect: fastboot isn't in your sdk build? I know it's in mine and I didn't do anything to get it there Dec 07 06:37:06 its seriously not. at least not in the osx sdk. Dec 07 06:37:06 DarkriftX: he cares about having to tell his wife he has to spend 450 bucks on a dev phone ;-) Dec 07 06:37:16 it's not in the windows sdk either Dec 07 06:37:18 /Volumes/AndroidBuild/mydroid/out/host/darwin-x86/bin/fastboot Dec 07 06:37:27 AndoidBuild is my disk image for my build Dec 07 06:37:28 RyeBrye: thast not sdk, thats source build Dec 07 06:37:32 oh Dec 07 06:37:33 right Dec 07 06:37:35 i have it in source build. for linux. Dec 07 06:37:37 lol Dec 07 06:37:40 you want me to just zip that? Dec 07 06:37:45 that would rule :) Dec 07 06:38:17 jsut don't hold me to any of that "must provide code" crap for redistributing open source builds ;) Dec 07 06:38:23 get yer own code! ;) Dec 07 06:38:26 * Disconnect has only one osx-x86 box and its the mbp. not so great for 4+gig source trees Dec 07 06:38:27 lol Dec 07 06:38:33 its apache. you can do whatever you want. Dec 07 06:38:51 (apache is bsd. "open cuz we're nice" not "open cuz its open source") Dec 07 06:39:01 lol Dec 07 06:39:17 RyeBrye: I have a very difficult time believing that story (T-Mobile shipping it to a hacker), however, if that's the story, I will ask no further questions, and just be grateful that it's out there now. Dec 07 06:39:28 bgupta: believe what you want Dec 07 06:39:46 JesusFreke: You running the engineering build now? Dec 07 06:39:51 i don't htink anyone is worried about what you believe, actually Dec 07 06:39:57 or bootloader i should say? Dec 07 06:39:58 bgupta: sorta Dec 07 06:40:16 If I wasn't returing my phone tomorrow.. I would be running it. Dec 07 06:40:26 ordered a dev device though Dec 07 06:40:35 and tomorrow is the last day I can return the G1 Dec 07 06:40:45 bgupta: it doesn't really matter what you believe - that's how it happened. It wasn't ENTIRELY an engineering build - it still checked for signatures - but we fixed that Dec 07 06:40:46 so I've got it all back stock and stuff Dec 07 06:41:28 bgupta: I'm willing to bet that since it happened once, there is a small % out there that have fastboot enabled bootloaders out there Dec 07 06:41:44 basically, we won the lottery! :) Dec 07 06:41:47 RyeBrye: a growing percentage :) Dec 07 06:41:50 lol :) Dec 07 06:41:54 Well then, congratulations! Dec 07 06:41:55 now send me that file. Dec 07 06:42:00 oh, yeah Dec 07 06:42:08 3.2 mb - just zipped up all of the bin Dec 07 06:42:13 rock on :) Dec 07 06:42:30 I would have done the whole host/out but it's around 100+ megs and I don't think any of the other stuff matters much Dec 07 06:42:48 yah most of it is no worth it (dupe from bins, dupe from sdk, etc) Dec 07 06:43:11 it's sending now Dec 07 06:43:17 or waiting to send Dec 07 06:43:29 cool Dec 07 06:43:33 thanks :) Dec 07 06:43:35 RyeBrye, what's this? Dec 07 06:43:52 that's just the bin tools from the source build for oSX Dec 07 06:43:53 lottery? Dec 07 06:43:54 just bins from the full-source build for osx. Dec 07 06:43:58 ah Dec 07 06:44:16 Damm - T-mobile shipped a phone with a non-neutered bootloader straight into the hands of a hacker a month or so ago Dec 07 06:44:23 lottery as in tmob has a finite (and presumably small) number of units with fastboot bootloader, and they sent it to the totally wrong person Dec 07 06:44:25 JesusFreke: Rather than returning your device, might you just auction it off? Pre rc30 devices might start to get scarce soon? Dec 07 06:44:43 * RyeBrye cackles Dec 07 06:45:00 thought about it.. Dec 07 06:45:01 RyeBrye: that means there are probably more people with that bootlader, he's just the first hacker to get it ;-) Dec 07 06:45:07 not worth the hassle though :) Dec 07 06:45:12 GOtcha Dec 07 06:45:23 unix_infidel: yes, that's likely the case. I wonder how many though? Hard to tell... but probably a low percentage Dec 07 06:45:23 unless you want to make an offer? :D Dec 07 06:45:31 I'll give you $50 Dec 07 06:45:33 ;) Dec 07 06:45:41 but ONLY if you sign it Dec 07 06:45:44 I've got $50. do I hear $100? :D Dec 07 06:45:45 and NOT with testkeys Dec 07 06:45:50 sure Dec 07 06:46:02 I've $100, do I hear $450? :D Dec 07 06:46:28 JesusFreke: If you had more than 1 day left in the window, you might have an admirer on xda devs that would pay $ for it... Dec 07 06:46:44 so they could say to their friends "Hey, you know that guy who modifies the G1 firmware stuff? guess what... THIS was HIS phone" Dec 07 06:46:56 wait... what am I talking about... people who read xda forums don't have friends :( Dec 07 06:47:10 they have coworkers, that's close enough, right? Dec 07 06:47:14 lol Dec 07 06:47:27 hey, i have a friend Dec 07 06:47:34 and i onlyhave to pay him $10/wk to stay my friend Dec 07 06:47:38 I pay good money for those friends. it's not cheap. Dec 07 06:47:56 swetland: you can fire people if they aren't your friend. That's not fair Dec 07 06:48:10 well... I suppose you'd have to find some kind of bogus "cause" Dec 07 06:48:20 unfriendly conduct Dec 07 06:49:17 My next step tomorrow is to remove that T-Mobile G1 boot image and replace it with a cooler android pic Dec 07 06:49:29 lol Dec 07 06:49:38 fastboot flash splash1 foo.565 is your friend Dec 07 06:49:40 i want an animated version of my site header Dec 07 06:49:46 the robot doing some sort of dance or something lol Dec 07 06:49:49 swetland: you are my hero :) Dec 07 06:49:59 swetland: what format? Dec 07 06:50:12 raw 16bpp rgb565 320x480 Dec 07 06:50:15 btw: fastboot rules. Whoever wrote that deserves a pat on the back Dec 07 06:50:15 RyeBrye_: Just make it something simple, a couple lines of text that says "The police have been alerted" Dec 07 06:50:22 rye: thank you Dec 07 06:50:43 It's definitely one of the nicest tools I've seen for working with bootloader-type stuff Dec 07 06:50:48 what *really* rules about it is that we're asking OEMs to support it Dec 07 06:51:05 so if things go well, any android device intended for systems development will be compatible Dec 07 06:51:12 Cool Dec 07 06:51:13 sweet :) Dec 07 06:51:22 this is why i tell eveyrone its tmobile being dicks, not google :) Dec 07 06:51:23 basically everyone tends to want to own the bootloader Dec 07 06:51:29 Is it possible to buy the Android developer phone without agreeing to the Developer Distribution Agreement and paying $25 to become a member of the Android Marketplace? Dec 07 06:51:30 since it integrates with their factory process, etc, etc Dec 07 06:51:30 For a second there I thought you were going to say "any android device" without that other clause :) Dec 07 06:51:47 ok so nice Dec 07 06:51:54 er.. sorry. just "nice" :) Dec 07 06:52:06 paulproteus: I'll let you buy one without that. $650 cash - meet me in a back alley Dec 07 06:52:16 and I'm cool with that. I just ask that people try to support fastboot to make it easy for systems developers (us, others, whoever) to rapidly load/test images, etc Dec 07 06:52:19 RyeBrye: those bins work btw :) Dec 07 06:52:34 * Disconnect is building a new boot.img with his kernel for fun and profit. or at least for fun. Dec 07 06:52:46 Disconnect: why bother building a boot.img? just use fastboot :) Dec 07 06:52:47 not everyone will, obviously. hell, I'm sure we'll see some people do fully encrypted secure boot paths, etc Dec 07 06:53:02 i fed it the wrong file. i should try it again.. Dec 07 06:53:19 swetland: Yeah, that'd be annoying. You should ask that they use small keys for that though ;) Dec 07 06:53:34 Features: Dec 07 06:53:42 swetland: "What? who told you that? NOOOOOO... on an embedded device 40 bits it TOTALLY fine. Trust me. What? No - you can't get that in writing!" Dec 07 06:53:43 SECURE key storage - max key length, 32 bits Dec 07 06:54:00 (-; Dec 07 06:54:16 cool. it works much better with zImage than with vmlinuz :) Dec 07 06:54:32 paul: that's pretty fancy. I thought the 5 digit "luggage lock" model was state of the art Dec 07 06:55:31 I think that dev phone thing is really cool... because then you have a way to cordon off the crazies and let them pound away at crazyness - and whatever good comes of it can get ported back to the main stuff Dec 07 06:55:52 oh - and swetland - someone mentioned earlier about stuff from your 2.6.27 being pushed up to the mainline. Is it in the merge window for 2.6.28 ? Dec 07 06:56:08 * RyeBrye hasn't been watching the merge windows Dec 07 06:56:11 RyeBrye: isn't that mostly how OSS works anyway? esp bsd-licensed Dec 07 06:56:20 damn. it booted the old kernel. annoying.. Dec 07 06:56:29 rye: I'm way behind on the kernel stuff right now Dec 07 06:56:29 Disconnect: use fastboot to replace it :) Dec 07 06:56:33 In all seriousness, what is the relationship between me paying $25 for Android Market distribution and me wanting a Developer Device? Dec 07 06:56:39 the first couple patches in our .27 tree made it in to .28 Dec 07 06:57:07 That's cool. It doesn't really MATTER when they get merged into the mainline - since I'll just be pulling from your trees anyway Dec 07 06:57:08 paulproteus: probably its just to limit it to one per dev. Dec 07 06:57:25 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html links to http://market.android.com/publish , which asks me to pay $25 and sign an agreement. Dec 07 06:57:38 I don't want agreements, I just want to turn my money into a phone that I can do what I want with. Dec 07 06:57:44 the program is more aimed at supporting app developers than systems developers Dec 07 06:57:48 infobot: tell paulproteus about dev phones Dec 07 06:57:54 but the devices are useful for both, obviously Dec 07 06:57:57 woops Dec 07 06:58:10 infobot: tell paulproteous about devphones Dec 07 06:58:22 If I stop by Building 44 can I just grab one for $399 or something? (-; Dec 07 06:58:32 the agreement, as far as I understand, only governs use of the market, and doesn't impact what you can do with the hardware. Yes, I know it's annoying. Dec 07 06:58:41 Only if you fly yourself in with a self piloting helicopter Dec 07 06:59:02 "Here, have a free cookie!" "but I don't like oatmeal, can't I have chocolate chip?" Dec 07 06:59:03 yaaay reboot loop. Dec 07 07:00:02 disconnect: the model I suggest using for kernel development (once one has a device with a fastboot capable bootloader) is to fastboot erase boot, fastboot erase recovery -- the device will stop at the color bars on boot and wait and you can fastboot boot ... to download and boot from ram Dec 07 07:00:29 swetland: It appears you ahve usb network tethering working already? http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=blob;f=drivers/usb/function/ether.c;h=f31032e9ee0040cbb5b87d31670320526ae9cbf0;hb=9e460ab96cee54e56fd1c40732d5d99a8af418c8 ? Dec 07 07:00:50 yup. it's a little complicated to enable it Dec 07 07:00:54 swetland: cool :) Dec 07 07:01:16 note that actually using tethering may violate the terms of service with your service provider Dec 07 07:01:18 you need to either modify the desktop driver to match the device vid/pid or change the device vid/pid to one the driver knows about Dec 07 07:01:27 there, legal obligation fulfilled. :) Dec 07 07:01:29 morrildl: I would really only use it to tether wifi Dec 07 07:01:33 ;) Dec 07 07:01:34 morrildl: tmob has publically stated they aren't worried about it Dec 07 07:01:51 I said "may" ;) Dec 07 07:02:15 tmo did the rate limit after cap thing, so I assume that was their solution for "omg users are hosting MMORPG servers on their phones" "problem" Dec 07 07:02:18 Ok... My android-hapiness thermometer is moving up pretty high now. Dec 07 07:02:31 * morrildl didn't realize that was a thermal thing Dec 07 07:02:35 swetland: or that big fish thing Dec 07 07:02:55 swetland, Is there a limit of one Developer Device per person, as suggested by Disconnect? Dec 07 07:03:07 paul: that is my understanding Dec 07 07:03:15 Does Apple have an IRC channel for iPhone? Dec 07 07:03:20 I wonder what the vibe is on that Dec 07 07:03:28 Ha ha haha ha Dec 07 07:03:30 paulproteus: for now, yes Dec 07 07:03:30 Apple... Dec 07 07:03:32 talking to people? Dec 07 07:03:33 swetland: hmm. i think i'm missing a step. fastboot boot kernel (original htc one) or mine both bring me back to fastboot. Dec 07 07:03:36 morrildl: smug superiority? ^^ Dec 07 07:03:45 That's... interesting. Dec 07 07:03:45 swetland: genuine curiosity Dec 07 07:03:49 I guess if I break mine, I'm SOL then. Dec 07 07:04:00 morrildl: The only good iphone channel is for hacking them Dec 07 07:04:06 yesterday i'd be very upset about this. today its not so bad :) Dec 07 07:04:19 morrildl: these are the same people who make you sign NDAs just to use their dev crap Dec 07 07:04:26 disconnect: fastboot boot zimage ramdisk.img Dec 07 07:04:37 ah. right. cuz i'm a moron. :) thanks Dec 07 07:04:46 or fastboot boot boot.img (if you have a fully assembled one) Dec 07 07:05:08 but fastboot will happily build a boot.img on the fly, since I'm too lazy to run mkbootimg by hand first ^^ Dec 07 07:05:21 RyeBrye: there are iPhone channels on freenode, they don't involve jailbreaking Dec 07 07:05:22 You'd never have someone like swetland giving help on an iPhone channel - or describing his laziness on that channel Dec 07 07:05:32 probably because swetland doesn't work for apple though Dec 07 07:05:34 RyeBrye: Anyone documenting the fastboot stuff in a wiki yet? Dec 07 07:05:35 you're right about that Dec 07 07:05:49 laziness is one of the cardinal virtues of an engineer Dec 07 07:05:53 who was it who said that? Dec 07 07:06:00 Larry Wall? Dec 07 07:06:00 larry wall Dec 07 07:06:04 right Dec 07 07:06:08 Apple employees can't say shit to the public without it going through someone higher up Dec 07 07:06:21 yeah, that would be annoying Dec 07 07:06:50 i think i'm gonna publish a cheatsheet before bed tonight Dec 07 07:07:15 what you guys *really* want for kernel hacking is the Y cable that breaks out UART3 Dec 07 07:07:25 * swetland is trying to get those made available for purchase too Dec 07 07:07:30 Oooh :) Dec 07 07:07:36 everything takes longer than I like Dec 07 07:07:48 Disconnect: Thanks... Dec 07 07:07:51 are there diagrams somewhere? what pins are needed? Dec 07 07:07:58 * RyeBrye just bought a REALLY nice soldering iron :) Dec 07 07:08:03 http://frotz.net/misc/debugcable.jpg Dec 07 07:08:03 heh sweet Dec 07 07:08:17 swetland, RyeBrye: yeah, publishing a pinout diagram would be a good first step :) Dec 07 07:08:21 ok but we're gonna need more detail :) Dec 07 07:08:31 I actually don't have pinouts for the funky connector handy, but I can see if I can dig one up next week Dec 07 07:08:41 * chuck really wants to try the G1 :'( Dec 07 07:08:43 cool. That's fine. I dont' really have time to burn my fingers righ tnow Dec 07 07:08:47 I need to find a T-Mobile store around here Dec 07 07:08:54 the cables are totally sweet though (one side is USB, the other is USB<->serial adapter), and I'd like to have those available to people Dec 07 07:09:04 chuck: http://locator.t-mobile.com/Locator.aspx Dec 07 07:09:09 nice. kernel loaded, wifi and phone both lit up Dec 07 07:09:35 swetland: Hmm... That's interesting - I wonder if those things would interface with the Serial0 on the locked bootloader? Dec 07 07:09:48 rye: I'm pretty sure it's disabled Dec 07 07:09:49 swetland: do you ever sleep, or do you just have a developer-type sleep pattern Dec 07 07:09:49 * RyeBrye doesn't really care though Dec 07 07:09:59 swetland: You guys planning on publishing any hardware docs for the ADD1, or r we gonna have to piece it together? Dec 07 07:10:15 adamant: I do sleep. but yeah, I kinda free-wheel some weeks and am currently running somewhat inverted Dec 07 07:10:21 great. the closest retailers are target, which definitely won't have working phones. Dec 07 07:10:52 swetland: fair enough, I just slept for 5 hours and ended up waking up in the middle of the night Dec 07 07:11:03 bgupta: schematics, etc, are htc's property and we can't really publish that. the kernel does have rigging for just about all the hw Dec 07 07:11:36 Cool.. Dec 07 07:11:49 how is Google with regards to accomodating the developer sleep stuff? Dec 07 07:12:01 depends on your group, I'm sure Dec 07 07:12:05 ah Dec 07 07:12:09 so it's all local Dec 07 07:12:13 the hell.. it says there's one in the eden prairie mall.. I'll have to look a litter closer next time I visit there, then.. Dec 07 07:12:17 I heard they get gourmet food in lieu of sleep... Dec 07 07:12:30 damnit. i broke bluetooth. Dec 07 07:12:30 overall, at least in MV, things are pretty flexible Dec 07 07:12:40 All good dev teams I've worked for have been extremely loose for schedules... but then again... I've never worked at a gigantic publicly traded company Dec 07 07:12:43 gourmet espresso brewed with Red Bull Dec 07 07:12:48 I work too much, so they're not picky about exactly *when* I work too much ^^ Dec 07 07:12:58 swetland: that's all I'm looking for Dec 07 07:13:06 Yeah, you get to pick which 80 hours of the week you work :) Dec 07 07:13:24 rye: more or less Dec 07 07:13:27 * Disconnect was reading jwz's netscape tales not long ago Dec 07 07:13:35 lol Dec 07 07:13:38 I understand accomodation has to be made for things like group meetings and such Dec 07 07:13:40 and sometimes they ship me to taiwan for a couple weeks to fight with power management issues or whatnot Dec 07 07:13:40 not like that leaves much choice for you though Dec 07 07:13:53 which actually isn't too bad. the htc team is great and I really enjoy working with those guys Dec 07 07:14:04 but I honestly end up being more productive if I work 12 to 9 or so Dec 07 07:16:01 http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nscpdorm.html start at 10 october Dec 07 07:16:22 I try not to sleep at the office any more Dec 07 07:16:37 going home and getting a good night's (morning's) sleep in your own bed is so worth it Dec 07 07:17:00 swetland, If I may ask, where's home? Dec 07 07:17:05 * paulproteus is at Noisebridge in San Francisco right now Dec 07 07:17:16 And let me apologize again if I'm being too annoying. Dec 07 07:18:35 mountain view Dec 07 07:18:42 swetland: greetings Dec 07 07:18:55 That's easy enough to get home then (-: Dec 07 07:18:58 about a mile or two from downtown, conveniently close to google galactic hq Dec 07 07:19:07 yeah, that does help Dec 07 07:19:16 "Googtown," as my friend Red once said. Dec 07 07:19:25 swetland: you live a mile or two from Google headquarters? Dec 07 07:19:34 mile or two from downtown mv Dec 07 07:19:38 Oh, ok Dec 07 07:19:39 about 5 miles from the office Dec 07 07:20:03 I actually moved their before android was bought by google (back when I worked at danger) Dec 07 07:20:15 so the acquisition cut my commute in half! Dec 07 07:20:21 cool Dec 07 07:20:22 (-: Dec 07 07:20:42 I complain about my commute only so that I can get the death stare from the city dwellers Dec 07 07:21:04 swetland: I call bullshit :) Dec 07 07:21:06 "traffic on the 101/shoreline ramp was terrible today, it took me almost 12 minutes to get to work" Dec 07 07:21:22 We knew what we were getting into when we decided to live in the city :) Dec 07 07:21:39 I disown any of my city-dwelling colleagues who complain about the commute Dec 07 07:21:58 swetland, morrildl: good morning :) Dec 07 07:22:02 morrildl: nonetheless, griping about a 10 minute drive is a good way to get some grumbling from you folks with your 45-70 minute commutes Dec 07 07:22:05 heya! Dec 07 07:22:22 well it's a good way to get a beatdown I guess ;) Dec 07 07:22:29 ttuttle: hello, and good night :) Dec 07 07:22:32 bedtime for me Dec 07 07:22:42 morrildl: night! Dec 07 07:22:48 I telecommute all but one or two days a month - so my commute is short Dec 07 07:25:17 does photoshop output raw 16bpp rgb565 320x480 ? Dec 07 07:25:43 rye: no clue. I usually save raw rgb888 from the gimp. then use the commandline thing in the sources to convert to 565 Dec 07 07:25:58 ah, cool. I'm sure it can do raw rgb888 Dec 07 07:26:40 swetland - maybe I'll write a patch for your fastboot to take more image formats for that :) (depends on how much I use it and how lazy I get) Dec 07 07:26:43 night all! Dec 07 07:26:52 Night Dialekt! Dec 07 07:27:02 Er, Disconnect! Dec 07 07:27:06 morning Dec 07 07:27:41 ok real quick fastboot cheat-sheet on my site Dec 07 07:28:09 see also: fastboot help Dec 07 07:28:15 it has built in documentation! ^^ Dec 07 07:29:08 * RyeBrye grumbles about PS CS4 not having an SVG importer Dec 07 07:29:42 dis: url? Dec 07 07:29:50 swetland: www.gotontheinter.net Dec 07 07:29:58 cute Dec 07 07:30:33 note that fastboot does not work with update.zip that recovery likes Dec 07 07:30:34 ok really to bed now. night all! :) Dec 07 07:30:45 ah ok. i'll pull that section then Dec 07 07:30:46 fastboot update.zip files contain raw partition images Dec 07 07:31:03 Oh, so not t-mobile-style update.zips? Dec 07 07:31:11 you *can* reflash the whole device that way, but it's not the same as a recovery/ota update Dec 07 07:31:34 so if you have an update.zip that just has system.img in the zip with no manifest or whatnot it will apply it? Dec 07 07:31:35 the system.img, boot.img, etc that the build generates go into them Dec 07 07:31:44 cool Dec 07 07:31:51 there's a build target to generate a suitable update.zip, but I forget what it is Dec 07 07:31:55 nice. someone leave a comment to remind me to add that in the morning. but right now its bedtime and a half :) Dec 07 07:32:20 Disconnect: you finally seem happy about android :) Dec 07 07:32:42 i'm finally in a position to fix some of the things that i think are broken or dumb.. Dec 07 07:32:44 lol Dec 07 07:32:49 ahahah Dec 07 07:33:02 not all (at least until the internal/external trees get better synced) but some Dec 07 07:33:15 disconnect: should be some good news for ya there soon Dec 07 07:33:41 yah i've been hearing that its on track for this quarter still (ie next couple weeks) Dec 07 07:33:49 yup Dec 07 07:33:56 :) Dec 07 07:34:29 and hitachi has already done the biggest "well that was dumb" project - selinux+android :) Dec 07 07:34:37 but i'm really really gone now.. Dec 07 07:35:22 what, seriously? url! Dec 07 07:36:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yWDvcWu6I Dec 07 07:36:51 crazy! Dec 07 07:38:25 wow, virus scans for linux Dec 07 07:43:09 Yeah, that's strange Dec 07 07:44:21 well, not virus scans at all. Dec 07 07:50:17 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3008163&postcount=19 Dec 07 07:50:18 :p Dec 07 07:51:18 Any Mac users have any input on getting an alternate filessytem up for Android development? (MY main HDD is formatted HFS+, and kernel compiling requires a case sensitive filesystem) Thinking to format a mkfile block device as ffs.. but that seems suboptimal.. other option is to use NFS I suppose. Mmmm. final option is to break out a USB drive and reformat it. What have others done? Dec 07 07:51:52 use linux :) Dec 07 07:52:07 I pretty much don't use my mac for anything anymore Dec 07 07:52:12 I run windows, so I just use an ubuntu virtual machine for android development Dec 07 07:52:23 vmware ftw Dec 07 07:52:35 my lack of use on my mac is mostly due to apple annoying the hell out of me lately Dec 07 07:53:18 Yeah well.. I could always through up a VM in fusion... just thought I'd try building on a Mac, since it is supported. Dec 07 07:53:31 (It's a Hackintosh if that makes you feel any better) Dec 07 07:54:11 so you are running mac a on pc? Dec 07 07:54:25 wow.. on a pc... not a on pc Dec 07 07:54:44 * unix_infidel decided to buy a G1 instead of building a hackintosh. Dec 07 07:55:01 I generally use WIndows or Mac on the desktop and Linux/Solaris on the server... Yeah... it's a quad core Xeon, I build for playing with Xen.. but when my main PC died, I decided to try out Mac OS X. Dec 07 07:55:05 * michaelnovakjr__ thinks unix_infidel made a wise choice Dec 07 07:55:23 though, i might regret it in a few weeks. Dec 07 07:55:37 * unix_infidel thinks a new awesome android devices comes out january 09 Dec 07 07:55:49 bgupta: how's that run? is it buggy? have you tried xcode? Dec 07 07:55:58 And I dont regret it... (There's a few commercial apps I need for work that aren't really available on Linux, and don't run well in a VM. Dec 07 07:56:33 Only using XCode to get macports running... Dec 07 07:56:39 but otherwise it's good Dec 07 07:56:43 cool Dec 07 07:56:51 Oh wait main negative feedback.. Dec 07 07:57:16 I couldn't get to PCIX videocards working... So I am limited to 2 24" monitors.. Dec 07 07:57:27 (Was greedy and wanted a third Dec 07 07:57:31 damn that must suck Dec 07 07:57:32 :) Dec 07 07:57:44 THe other issue is that you have to be careful when doing the software updates... Dec 07 07:57:46 this is the best post evar Dec 07 07:57:47 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=455406 Dec 07 07:57:48 only 2 24", i would have thrown it out Dec 07 07:58:04 "i have a excalibur and have flashed android so i know that google just ripped of gentoo and disabled almost everything that would be good from a linux distro." Dec 07 07:58:08 our secret is out! Dec 07 07:58:11 rofl swet. I saw that earlier today and thought the same thing Dec 07 07:58:12 The ones that touch the kernel in particular Dec 07 07:58:18 haha Dec 07 07:59:09 I hadn't looked at xdaforums in a while. I obviously have been missing all the fun Dec 07 07:59:15 So when major updates come out you need to wait till someone gets a manual update procedure tested and working.. (Or if it's not your main machine, you can try hacking it yourself) Dec 07 08:00:13 swetland: there's a lot of people like that Dec 07 08:00:28 when you think you've heard it all, someone comes along and surprises you :) Dec 07 08:00:34 missing the fun or posting frothy tinfoil-hat rambling stuff? Dec 07 08:00:56 the rambling can get annoying, i usually enjoy the first post Dec 07 08:01:16 i'd say the iPhone auto attach nude photos and send to a woman bug was the best Dec 07 08:01:22 and the follow ups were even better Dec 07 08:01:35 that was amusing Dec 07 08:02:22 we did have a "phone sent random pictures to people" bug during development, that was more of a "keyguard insufficiently aggressive to prevent email sending from ones pants" bug Dec 07 08:02:34 haha Dec 07 08:02:38 those are fun Dec 07 08:02:56 RyeBrye: You playing with fastboot yet? Dec 07 08:03:00 Yeah http://www.ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_image.jpg Dec 07 08:03:05 that's going to be my new boot spash Dec 07 08:03:08 err splash Dec 07 08:03:21 (not the jpg version) Dec 07 08:03:25 nice rye :) Dec 07 08:03:32 looks tasty Dec 07 08:03:36 Nice... Dec 07 08:04:08 rye, can you send me the RGB565 or whatever format it is? Dec 07 08:04:21 JesusFreke: when I get it done, I'll post it Dec 07 08:04:24 k Dec 07 08:04:27 sounds good Dec 07 08:04:33 I'm working on figuring out how to build an RGB565 :) Dec 07 08:04:40 *nod* :) Dec 07 08:04:44 can you save to rgb888? Dec 07 08:05:15 JesusFreke: You have an image with fastboot built yet? OR do I have to get this compiling filesystem stuff sorted out to compile and play with fastboot? Dec 07 08:05:21 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/build.git;a=tree;f=tools/rgb2565;h=aa8e6dd23f17887e39ffd731b42c0eb6317bf867;hb=master Dec 07 08:05:37 swetland: I thought photoshop could, but apparently not. I can save to bmp - but I am downloading graphicconverter that should do rgb888 Dec 07 08:06:03 recent gimp will definitely let you save as "raw" and choose non-alpha (888) format Dec 07 08:06:06 I have the tools built, so once I get an rgb888 I should be able to use the rgb25626 tool Dec 07 08:06:07 bgupta what do you mean an image? Dec 07 08:06:34 you mean a fastboot binary? Dec 07 08:06:39 update.zip with fastboot binary Dec 07 08:06:58 bgupta: Disconnect posted the current one on his site Dec 07 08:06:59 fastboot is a binary that runs on your computer Dec 07 08:07:08 ah... Dec 07 08:07:13 it connects to the engineering bootloader on the phone Dec 07 08:07:15 well fastboot is a bunch of things Dec 07 08:07:19 bgupta: There will be another version released wiht a few more patches Dec 07 08:07:19 it's also the wire protocl Dec 07 08:07:27 and the code in the bootloader Dec 07 08:07:38 and a cookie Dec 07 08:07:43 * swetland likes to keep it simple (confusing?) by calling all the parts the same thing Dec 07 08:07:46 * JesusFreke names his cookie fastboot Dec 07 08:07:53 it is both a dessert topping and a floor wax Dec 07 08:08:00 * RyeBrye names his shoes fastboots Dec 07 08:08:03 got yah... so I have to sort out this HFS+ issue Dec 07 08:08:20 needed to do it anyway... Dec 07 08:08:23 HFS+ issue; i set up a sparsebundle image so i didnt have to repartition. Dec 07 08:08:25 oh, bgupta - you want me to dcc you bins of the built tools? Dec 07 08:09:05 Nah, I need to get compiling working... might as well push through and get it done tonight.. Dec 07 08:09:21 * mmitchel having issues with javadoc tonight blowing up. Dec 07 08:09:22 It is the weekend afterall Dec 07 08:09:54 RyeBrye: ImageMagick should be able to do the conversion for you.. Dec 07 08:10:22 RyeBrye: ImageMagick is in macports Dec 07 08:11:40 bgupta: I'll trade you - you figure out the command to get imagemagick to convert a BMP to an RGB888 or RGB565 I'll DCC you the bins from the source build :) Dec 07 08:12:06 hehe.. I'll take a look.. Dec 07 08:12:16 Installing ImageMagick now Dec 07 08:13:42 mmitchel: How big an image you use? I'm thinking 2GB should be good? Dec 07 08:14:07 it says you need 6G for everything to build... i used 8G Dec 07 08:14:17 6G has a good amount of padding Dec 07 08:14:27 the full download/checkout is ~2GB Dec 07 08:14:28 kk, thx Dec 07 08:14:31 sparse bundle; ill let the OS figure it out. Dec 07 08:14:35 and a full build will burn about 2GB more Dec 07 08:14:47 swetland: can you dcc it to me at RyeBrye_ ? that client has better DCC Dec 07 08:14:53 im blowing up on the error 41 at javalib.jar Dec 07 08:16:44 hi i'm downloading by ``repo sync'' smoothly in a nearby Starbucks.. :) Dec 07 08:17:07 but just curious if it's possible to break it in the middle (by ctrol-break) because it seems it's going to take long.. Dec 07 08:17:27 repo-sync is intelligent enough to sync in the middle? Dec 07 08:18:09 well i just cannot occupy the seat for so long .. :) Dec 07 08:18:19 BogoMIPS : 527.15 Dec 07 08:18:21 * sparkle twiddles Dec 07 08:18:33 Cool :) Dec 07 08:18:40 sparkle: what cpu freq? Dec 07 08:18:44 528mhz Dec 07 08:18:54 x4 multiplier, 1.32v? Dec 07 08:19:07 bbiab Dec 07 08:19:47 I know it's pretty much apples to oranges... but my desktop CPU vCore is only 1.29 I think - kind of nuts my phone would be on 1.32 Dec 07 08:20:17 anyone has downloaded sdk release 2 Dec 07 08:21:33 mmitchel: Is there an easy way to change the default mount point for a sparse bundle? Or did you just go with the default /Volumes/whatever?? (I used the disk utility to create it) If there is no easy way I'll just through in a symlink. Dec 07 08:21:42 s/through/throw/ Dec 07 08:21:42 bgupta meant: mmitchel: Is there an easy way to change the default mount point for a sparse bundle? Or did you just go with the default /Volumes/whatever?? (I used the disk utility to create it) If there is no easy way I'll just throw in a symlink. Dec 07 08:21:51 bgupta: just using /Volume/android.. Dec 07 08:22:28 its all relative; so you can symlink it if you want. no Dec 07 08:22:33 *np Dec 07 08:28:12 RyeBrye, can you send me the link to your image again? Dec 07 08:28:24 nvm found it Dec 07 08:28:27 yeah, I'll put up the bmg Dec 07 08:28:38 err bmp Dec 07 08:28:40 hi, repo sync can be resumed in the middle? Dec 07 08:28:52 RyeBrye send me the source.. Dec 07 08:29:22 I got ImageMagick ready to go.. looks straight forward enough Dec 07 08:29:53 ok. http://www.ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_image.bmp is the uncompressed version Dec 07 08:30:05 http://www.ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_image.psd is the cs4 psd file Dec 07 08:30:26 heh, much better than the current ;-) Dec 07 08:31:45 * unix_infidel wishes bloomberg would put out an app for Android. Dec 07 08:32:44 swetland: in GIMP when you export, do you use scalar or planar output? Dec 07 08:35:23 standard Dec 07 08:36:32 and... rgb2565 input output is the way it works? Dec 07 08:36:52 it's a filter, so rgb2565 < foo.888 > foo.565 Dec 07 08:37:01 ah, ok. that explains it :) Dec 07 08:37:10 * RyeBrye shoudl have looked at source, instead of bothering the master :) Dec 07 08:37:34 if I've got real work to do, I don't tend to hang out on irc Dec 07 08:43:28 man, I've gone done 46 builds of the email app today trying to track down obscure issues with my exchange stuff Dec 07 08:43:36 I think it's time to go to bed Dec 07 08:51:24 I built a new one with a black background Dec 07 08:52:03 woot woot Dec 07 08:52:06 I need to fix the dithering bit - but android_boot_black.rgb565 Dec 07 08:52:24 http://ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_black.rgb565 Dec 07 08:57:12 Ok, I fixed it - it's now dithered a bit better Dec 07 08:57:19 well.. no dithering, but it looks better Dec 07 08:57:21 (same URL) Dec 07 08:57:27 RyeBrye: Is that Raw or BMP? Dec 07 08:57:44 bgupta: that's the rgb565 format needed to flash onto fastboot Dec 07 08:57:48 I used GIMP Dec 07 08:57:53 to spit out RAW Dec 07 08:58:03 kk makes sense... Dec 07 08:58:31 I think I'm going to flash my contact info on that screen :) Dec 07 08:58:38 Like "Stolen from: " ;) Dec 07 08:58:52 bgupta: did you flash your bootloader yet to enable fastboot? Dec 07 08:59:09 still working on the imagemagick research... got it out to 8 bit RGB raw.. need to make that 16 bit, and see what the default 16 bit type is.. Dec 07 08:59:10 if you did, you can do fastboot flash splash1 android_boot_black.rgb565 and then fastboot reboot and you'll see it Dec 07 08:59:24 Yeah, I realized I sent you an 8bit BMP Dec 07 08:59:31 RyeBrye: I have flashed with new bootloader Dec 07 08:59:40 you can flash that image I sent you if you want Dec 07 08:59:46 it's at least better than the T-mobile G1 image Dec 07 09:00:01 ok... gonna try.. Dec 07 09:00:11 since I basically did nothing, I'll just hereby bequeath it as CCC "Do whatever the hell you want" license Dec 07 09:00:14 is this for the G1 screen, or the android screen, when the phone is booting? Dec 07 09:00:23 JesusFreke: the T-mobile G1 screen Dec 07 09:00:27 ah, cool Dec 07 09:00:51 mmm... so I just use a USB cable? Do i have to do anything funky on the phone? IE: Turn on USB debugging? Dec 07 09:00:58 JesusFreke: You should totally flash some goatse on your boot image before returning that phone :) Dec 07 09:01:03 ;) Dec 07 09:01:17 bgupta: just the USB - nope... reboot by holding down power + camera from a powered-off state Dec 07 09:01:25 then wehn you get to the skateboard screen, hit the back button Dec 07 09:01:29 swetland: thanks for the help Dec 07 09:01:57 rofl rye :D Dec 07 09:02:09 that would be hilarious Dec 07 09:02:20 especially if they tried booting it up in the store Dec 07 09:02:28 JesusFreke: Yes, you can be like "Umm... this phone offends me" Dec 07 09:02:28 just to make sure it was working Dec 07 09:02:35 I normally just hold BACK while powering up and let go of it once the bl displays "FASTBOOT" Dec 07 09:03:15 swetland - the final product is here: http://ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_black.rgb565 it's got a black background... I will put back in the other background and try that one Dec 07 09:03:33 although maybe you can't read rgb565 Dec 07 09:04:12 http://ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_black.bmp is up now too so you dont' have to flash your phone with it Dec 07 09:04:32 ryebrye: what is the image variable for fastboot? Dec 07 09:04:37 http://ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_image_black.bmp Dec 07 09:04:42 (I know it's in this IRC log) Dec 07 09:04:46 :) Dec 07 09:04:51 fastboot flash splash1 android_boot_black.rgb565 Dec 07 09:05:01 it flashes the splash1 partition with the image data Dec 07 09:06:20 neat... we really need to start documenting this somewhere.. BTW - it worked. Dec 07 09:06:37 bgupta: you like :) Dec 07 09:06:55 dream_kill: Some people didn't believe about your amazing luck with the phone :) Dec 07 09:06:57 Yes.. I like... fastboot is very cool.. wondering if there is a way to list partitions Dec 07 09:07:22 there is not Dec 07 09:07:44 yeah, but fastboot 2 will be so much more awesome that fastboot, right swetland? Dec 07 09:07:51 fastboot ][ Dec 07 09:07:59 geist: I'm happy with the first one, really Dec 07 09:08:03 :( Dec 07 09:08:18 it does what it needs to do, with as little extra crap as possible Dec 07 09:08:28 but the extra crap is the spice of life Dec 07 09:08:41 * geist is all about useless extra crap Dec 07 09:10:28 hey Dec 07 09:10:44 Lieu10ant: greetings Dec 07 09:10:51 for hdtv's, what does DLNA mean? Dec 07 09:10:52 * RyeBrye keeps rebooting his phone Dec 07 09:11:15 Isn't it Sony's marketing bit? Dec 07 09:11:15 Lieu10ant: that has *nothing* to do with Android. Dec 07 09:11:22 Lieu10ant: Why are you asking it here? Dec 07 09:11:29 ryebrye, does ur multitouch app need root? Dec 07 09:11:36 Lieu10ant: yeah Dec 07 09:11:54 i was asking it here cause i thought maybe one of you had a hdtv, guess not. Dec 07 09:12:06 #mythtv it's slightly more on topic Dec 07 09:12:24 but ryebrye, is there an apk of ur app online? Dec 07 09:12:26 I don't. ##hardware is the closest I can think of.. oh, or #mythtv. Dec 07 09:12:42 Lieu10ant: Google is probably your best bet. Dec 07 09:13:06 Lieu10ant: Yeah, http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/30/g1-multitouch-proof-of-concept-soure-code-posted/ I think there is an apk in that zip Dec 07 09:13:20 < Wonka> flaushy: hehe, i am quite happy i'm not doing "Helpdesk" (aka Night Support) anymore... Dec 07 09:13:24 ups Dec 07 09:13:32 dont fall asleep on mouse -.- Dec 07 09:13:34 Lieu10ant: you have to reflash with a custom kernel, and follow the busybox mknod steps to get the dev device created so the app can get the data Dec 07 09:13:41 whoops irc force closed :( Dec 07 09:14:09 uh yeah, thats too complicated lol. Dec 07 09:17:49 Lieu10ant: yeah, it's just a proof of concept now... pretty rough Dec 07 09:19:28 JesusFreke: or even slightly stranger than goatse - put a white Apple logo on there as the boot screen before you bring it back :) Dec 07 09:27:54 ok... I really need to stop rebooting my phone now :) Dec 07 09:28:01 lol Dec 07 09:28:14 i just love seeing something other than T-Mobile G1 Dec 07 09:28:36 yeah... it's cool.. Are you changing the image each time? Dec 07 09:28:43 no, just that same one :) Dec 07 09:28:50 I will probably build a few more images tomorrow Dec 07 09:29:15 getting an imagemagick command to convert to rgb 888 raw would be good Dec 07 09:29:37 it wouldn't be too hard to make a little gui app to handle changing the boot screen Dec 07 09:30:33 k.. Dec 07 09:31:16 I had kinda stopped working on that since you were using GIMP... I will keep going.. You want the command to convert from which source format? Dec 07 09:32:10 (Was focusing on getting my build env. up and running Dec 07 09:35:39 Just curious roughly how long is it taking you to run make, and what HW are you running it on? Dec 07 09:40:25 hi :) Dec 07 09:41:09 i have a last question : is android use http or imap for gmail ? Dec 07 09:41:59 (my provider in france filters imap access) Dec 07 09:43:52 alexissoft, please tell the name of the provider. I'm not living in France, but who knows the future :D Dec 07 09:44:18 The Gmail dev prolly doesn't hang out here.. and likely wouldn't be at liberty to discuss, but I'd bet it's not IMAP. Dec 07 09:44:34 (Gmail is not part of the OSS stack) Dec 07 09:44:43 Mony: orange :) Dec 07 09:45:01 budwaa: ok thanks that's all i wanted to know Dec 07 09:46:19 RyeBrye: It seems the PSD you sent me is 8-bit. Does that seem to ring a bell? Can you send me a 16 bit one? Dec 07 09:46:20 Mony: they don't currently filter imap access, you have 10MB quota for mail, and unlimited for everything else (on the same gprs ap : they're only looking at the tcp port) Dec 07 09:46:37 but for push mail, it can be very annoying :) Dec 07 09:48:46 s/currently/actually/ Dec 07 09:53:51 hi there... my repo sync connect has freezed for quite a while... if i ctrl-break it now, can i resume it somewhere in the middle? Dec 07 09:53:59 oh... resume itself now... Dec 07 09:54:28 it's downloaded 501mb... how many do i still need to download? Dec 07 10:03:55 hi all Dec 07 10:04:37 anyone good at android layout Dec 07 10:06:31 Hey anyone seen this javac segfault when trying to make android? http://pastebin.com/m6b3624b9 Dec 07 10:06:51 hello Dec 07 10:07:06 kennyyu: It's gonna be somewhere between 1.6-2GB Dec 07 10:07:13 hi Dec 07 10:08:15 I am thinking almost everyone is asleep by now.. Seemed pretty busy up until 4am EST. Dec 07 10:09:23 wow Dec 07 10:09:52 bgupta: the starbucks is going to close soon so i'm preparing to shtudown my computer... Dec 07 10:10:00 bgupta: wanna to ask Dec 07 10:10:17 my console is printing 'Checking out files: ...' something like that Dec 07 10:10:40 it means that it's checking out the file from the local repo? or the remote repo? Dec 07 10:11:43 any idea what's the version of kernel android is using? how about 1.0_r2? Dec 07 10:16:21 eugene: The G1 uses 2.6.25 but I think the source has 2.6.27 checked in. Dec 07 10:16:42 kennyyu: I suspect that is from the remote repo... Dec 07 10:17:08 eugene: Looking at source now.. Dec 07 10:17:26 bgupta: i'm curious what's 1.0r2 is using. the HEAD of common.git? Dec 07 10:17:34 or msm.git Dec 07 10:18:07 1.0r2 version, no? (vs. the Android source code). Dec 07 10:18:47 s/version/is the version of the SDK/ Dec 07 10:18:47 bgupta meant: 1.0r2 is the version of the SDK, no? (vs. the Android source code). Dec 07 10:19:12 bgupta: oh i really mean that does the kernel version that is included in the 1.0r2 sdk :) Dec 07 10:19:26 sigh i type differently from what i think i would type Dec 07 10:19:52 I don't know, I haven't looked... I didn't realize the SDK came with a kernel... Dec 07 10:20:13 bgupta: or maybe it doesn't. i don't know. Dec 07 10:20:20 bgupta: downloading the sdk... Dec 07 10:20:33 What are you trying to figure out? Dec 07 10:21:04 bgupta: just finding out the kernel version.. Dec 07 10:21:23 Realize there are two things you can download... 1) SDK, which is what you use to make and test Davlik apps, and 2) THe source code for the Android OS.... Dec 07 10:21:34 bgupta: nod Dec 07 10:21:55 mm Dec 07 10:22:11 well bumping up the clock gives me maybe a 15% boost to gcc Dec 07 10:22:19 not bad but probably not that worth it Dec 07 10:22:45 sparkle: gcc on what? Dec 07 10:22:53 your desktop? Dec 07 10:23:26 no Dec 07 10:23:27 the g1 Dec 07 10:23:48 lol. Dec 07 10:24:02 what are you building on your g1? Dec 07 10:24:32 well a bunch of stuff but i was testing to see the effect of the clock bump Dec 07 10:24:34 yay im somewhere near san jose now ^.^ Dec 07 10:25:06 streams copy stays about the same, scale/add/triad goes up by about 20% Dec 07 10:25:07 makes sense Dec 07 10:25:52 Been hearing that the G1 is artificially IO constrained... so that makes some sense. Dec 07 10:26:32 not really artificially Dec 07 10:26:41 the memory bus is slow so you can't take much advantage of a faster cpu Dec 07 10:27:36 i am building gfindster Dec 07 10:27:51 eugene: Looks like the Makefile for the kernel in the source indicated that it is 2.6.25 also... DOn't know where I got the idea 2.6.27 had been integrated Dec 07 10:28:32 Damn gimp takes awhile to compile... Dec 07 10:28:50 bgupta: thanks mate Dec 07 10:39:57 hi to all here Dec 07 10:40:46 yo Dec 07 10:41:20 hey sparkle Dec 07 10:41:39 u dev? Dec 07 10:41:55 development and hacking Dec 07 10:42:01 kernel modules & stuff right now Dec 07 10:42:11 cool, u r the man Dec 07 10:42:26 gawd i hope now :p Dec 07 10:42:45 i need some help in layout Dec 07 10:43:13 i need a two column scrolling layout for a chat client Dec 07 10:43:22 whats the best layout Dec 07 10:45:14 try #android-dev Dec 07 10:45:34 That's the channel for app developers Dec 07 10:45:49 THis is more for platform devs. Dec 07 10:45:58 ok, thanks Dec 07 10:46:12 heh, for my english class i'm writing a user manual on installing and basic useage of google android ont he htc vogue Dec 07 10:47:14 sparkle: WHat TZ you in? IT's super late where I am. Dec 07 10:49:47 sparkle: need. what are you working on? Dec 07 10:50:48 neat* Dec 07 11:02:15 eugene: just mucking with the cpu freq Dec 07 11:04:30 Damn gimp and dependencies take a long time to build.. been pegging 4 cores for over an hour now. (From macports) Dec 07 11:04:47 sparkle: ah Dec 07 11:05:32 tired of waiting, time for bed... later nightowls Dec 07 11:05:49 bgupta_away: zz Dec 07 11:06:07 * sparkle yawns Dec 07 11:27:09 bgupta_away, gimp.app Dec 07 11:29:30 oh SWEET Dec 07 11:32:58 sparkle, Eh? Dec 07 11:33:15 the android vnc viewer actually works now Dec 07 11:33:16 mostly Dec 07 11:33:23 Ah, cool. Dec 07 11:33:33 Does it have password support now? Dec 07 11:33:36 yeah Dec 07 11:33:42 and kb/mouse support Dec 07 11:34:04 :o nice Dec 07 11:34:05 What did it have before? Dec 07 11:34:10 No ability to interact with the remote machine? Dec 07 11:34:19 well you could view, but not do anything Dec 07 11:34:25 ah ok Dec 07 11:34:31 i'm hitting Xvnc over loopback and running an X session on the G1 Dec 07 11:34:33 it's...surreal Dec 07 11:34:53 I'll bet. Dec 07 11:35:02 You got a 480x320 session running? Dec 07 11:35:21 Mousing must be interesting. Dec 07 11:35:29 the trackball isn't too bad Dec 07 11:35:34 Oh yeah Dec 07 11:35:55 Sometimes I forget about that. Dec 07 11:36:04 !! Dec 07 11:37:09 pawalls, Not while using the device. Dec 07 11:37:16 Just when thinking about UI issues like VNC mousing. Dec 07 13:09:23 Excellent, built an image for the Dream. Dec 07 13:09:28 Now I just need my dev phone to arrive. Dec 07 13:09:38 cool Dec 07 13:09:42 what's in the image? Dec 07 13:09:48 Oh, just stock. Dec 07 13:09:54 But I was happy to find not one build error. Dec 07 13:09:58 make -j5 and you're done. Dec 07 13:10:01 * sparkle nods Dec 07 13:10:08 Now I have to figure out how to tweak it. Dec 07 13:10:14 i was a masochist for a stress test Dec 07 13:10:19 i built the kernel on the handset itself Dec 07 13:10:24 Nice Dec 07 13:10:30 it took a solid five hours Dec 07 13:10:31 I saw you mention something about building on-device before. Dec 07 13:10:35 yeah Dec 07 13:10:40 it's really really handy for small stuff Dec 07 13:10:46 I used to compile stuff on my NSLU2. Dec 07 13:10:53 Rather than cross-compile. Similar experience. Dec 07 13:10:55 * sparkle nods Dec 07 13:11:07 Any idea whether it'll be possible to get a Market APK? Dec 07 13:11:15 Can one just pull it from the device? Dec 07 13:11:15 hm? Dec 07 13:11:23 oh Dec 07 13:11:32 So, if you build a custom image, it doesn't include the market program. Dec 07 13:11:35 * sparkle nods Dec 07 13:11:44 That would be kind of nice to have though. Dec 07 13:11:52 i can't imagine it being a problem Dec 07 13:12:23 I guess on a dev device or rooted device it should be easy enough to pull the apk from the filesystem. Dec 07 13:12:58 * sparkle nods Dec 07 13:13:16 or just look at one of the patched rc30 builds floating around Dec 07 13:13:21 they're full overlays Dec 07 13:13:36 so it's easy enough to extract things from them Dec 07 13:13:45 Ah ok Dec 07 13:13:57 or i could just turn on my phone as an afs server Dec 07 13:13:59 * sparkle laughs Dec 07 13:14:07 you didn't install netatalk Dec 07 13:14:09 ? Dec 07 13:14:11 it's just been a while since i've been able to get into technology Dec 07 13:14:25 and thing little thing is pretty fun Dec 07 13:14:31 oh Dec 07 13:14:39 afs, not some pc appletalk crap :p Dec 07 13:15:54 Hmm, I'm not seeing a "Market.apk" Dec 07 13:15:59 "Vending.apk" maybe? Dec 07 13:16:45 that sounds right Dec 07 13:18:40 Interesting, that appears to include some youtube stuff as well Dec 07 13:18:46 sparkle: only five hours? wow Dec 07 13:19:39 swetland, Are there public docs somewhere on tweaking the build? Dec 07 13:19:53 I started poking around in makefiles but it would be more efficient if there were already instructions. Dec 07 13:19:57 now that i think about it it may have been 7-8 Dec 07 13:20:02 i fell asleep in the middle of it Dec 07 13:20:38 brb Dec 07 13:21:18 it must be a little odd, having people run in really weird directions with a fairly end-user focused handset Dec 07 13:21:33 not sure what you mean by "tweaking the build" Dec 07 13:21:50 there's a source tree with about 800MB of source. you could change any number of things Dec 07 13:23:07 sparkle: i'm writing a user manual on installing and basic useage of google android on the htc vogue Dec 07 13:23:10 back Dec 07 13:23:27 * sparkle nods Dec 07 13:23:32 swetland, Fair enough. Dec 07 13:23:50 It's pretty much all done through the makefiles though, eh? Dec 07 13:23:55 a good use of an englsh assignment to write a user manual :p Dec 07 13:24:07 it sure as hell beats the one someone wrote ona spoon Dec 07 13:24:51 sparkle: it'll be fun to see what people do with it all Dec 07 13:25:13 sparkle, Vending.apk will not install on the emulator :( Dec 07 13:25:19 we've been working on this for just shy of four years and of course have not stopped. I expect to see people take it in all kinds of interesting directions Dec 07 13:25:56 swetland, Thanks to you guys for working on it. Palm is dying a slow, pitiful death, and I'm glad to have an alternative to WM. Dec 07 13:26:04 Particularly an open alternative. Dec 07 13:26:19 an in-progress version: http://distro.jjhosting.org/engl-170/user_manual.pdf Dec 07 13:26:22 * sparkle nods Dec 07 13:26:45 i work in engineering at a mobiletelco, our handset engineers have been itching at the chance to branch out Dec 07 13:27:01 joeyjones, Sounds like there's a decent number of people running Android on the vogue. Dec 07 13:27:07 yup Dec 07 13:27:14 Is it possible that it could run on, say, an EeePC? Dec 07 13:27:23 yup Dec 07 13:27:28 has been done already Dec 07 13:27:48 swetland, How'd it work? Dec 07 13:28:01 the next big push to the open source tree (should be before the end of the year) should include the x86 and eeepc stuff Dec 07 13:28:10 Oh, excellent. Dec 07 13:28:28 I got a hand-me down EeePC and put ubuntu on it, but for what it is I think Android would be much nicer. Dec 07 13:28:36 I didn't play with it much. seemed to work well enough. an engineer in another group was hacking on it as a side project Dec 07 13:29:08 No touch screen support, I guess, but it's designed to handle that, right? Dec 07 13:29:16 for me the biggest advantage of android is that it's easy to navigate and use with a finger Dec 07 13:29:27 Is there mouse cursor support somewhere? Dec 07 13:29:50 joeyjones: omg, I didn't know that windows mobile looks so ugly Dec 07 13:30:00 joeyjones, It's also designed for low-power devices with small screens. Dec 07 13:30:06 it may jsut be my theme :p Dec 07 13:30:50 *just Dec 07 13:55:52 Hey, does anyone know how much the dev g1 is in the UK? Dec 07 13:56:35 * offby1 stares blankly Dec 07 13:58:25 sth, Probably US$399 + exorbitant customs fees. Dec 07 13:58:37 most people outside the US seemed to report $550 to $650 dependng on the countries. Dec 07 13:59:01 I'm ordering right now. I'll let you know the price for Singapore Dec 07 13:59:20 brocktice: aww Dec 07 13:59:29 I want a G1 but don't want to be on tmobile Dec 07 14:00:09 bloody hell Dec 07 14:00:12 119 USD in shipping Dec 07 14:00:46 mmm £354 in total then Dec 07 14:00:49 what is the benefit of having a dev g1 Dec 07 14:00:55 loke: i'd jsut give up now... Dec 07 14:01:05 The bootloader is unlocked Dec 07 14:01:08 ah Dec 07 14:01:11 joeyjones: why? Dec 07 14:01:11 Plus it's sim unlocked Dec 07 14:01:13 As is the SIM Dec 07 14:01:15 yeah Dec 07 14:01:21 loke: the ass-raping fees. Dec 07 14:01:39 loke, I suggest you call up our respective governments and ask them to open up trade a bit. Dec 07 14:01:40 I know. But I just clicked "order" :-) Dec 07 14:01:45 :p Dec 07 14:03:05 I want a little google search button my my desktop's keyboard like on the G1. Dec 07 14:03:13 only one "my" necessary tehre? Dec 07 14:03:18 there even, need more coffee Dec 07 14:04:31 brocktice: you forgot an "on" Dec 07 14:04:32 :p Dec 07 14:04:50 s/my/on/ then Dec 07 14:04:55 Definitely need more coffee. Dec 07 14:05:35 brocktice: have you seen what i'm working on? Dec 07 14:05:43 Your Vogue manual? Dec 07 14:06:07 yeah Dec 07 14:06:14 yeah I flipped through it briefly Dec 07 14:06:23 I don't have a vogue so it's not very compelling Dec 07 14:06:29 i'm up to 11 pages now :p Dec 07 14:06:38 I'm all for twofers Dec 07 14:06:44 twofers? Dec 07 14:06:50 two-for-ones Dec 07 14:06:54 aahh Dec 07 14:06:58 English assignment + manual Dec 07 14:07:02 yup :p Dec 07 14:07:18 with plenty of screen shots :p Dec 07 14:07:24 but they're going to dry up soon :p Dec 07 14:07:24 Wrote a parallel data post-processing library for my lab as a final project for my MPI class. Dec 07 14:07:45 i only have 3 screen shots of android in use :p Dec 07 14:07:56 OK, ordered Dec 07 14:07:56 where's the PDF again? Dec 07 14:07:58 518 USD Dec 07 14:08:02 loke, Congrats Dec 07 14:08:14 I hope mine gets here before I leave town for the holidays. Dec 07 14:08:42 http://distro.jjhosting.org/engl-170/user_manual.pdf Dec 07 14:09:03 i;ve heard that the htc touch hd may get android Dec 07 14:09:07 What are you making this with? Dec 07 14:09:16 the pdf? Dec 07 14:09:17 OO.o Dec 07 14:09:20 Ah ok Dec 07 14:09:25 didn't look like LaTeX output Dec 07 14:09:43 Nice footnote on upgrading the ROM Dec 07 14:09:45 have anyone heard anything of delivery times? Dec 07 14:09:49 :p Dec 07 14:10:15 joeyjones, It's not capacitive? Dec 07 14:10:15 brocktice: i don;t want to get into explaining flashing ROMs Dec 07 14:10:44 The screen I mean. Dec 07 14:10:45 stop using big words :p Dec 07 14:10:54 I'm not even sure that's the right word. Dec 07 14:11:02 i;ve been up for 21 hours so far :p Dec 07 14:11:12 Due Monday? Dec 07 14:11:16 tuesday Dec 07 14:11:21 along with 3 other assignments Dec 07 14:11:28 and exams on monday and tuesday Dec 07 14:12:04 I'm not sure about your quoting in 4.1 Dec 07 14:12:28 Not saying it's wrong, but you quote some strings from the screenshot but not others. Dec 07 14:12:31 yeah, it got a bit crazy in that section Dec 07 14:12:44 And I don't know what the correct usage is, but that seems inconsistent. Dec 07 14:13:35 i think i'll go and quote everything Dec 07 14:14:01 Haven't added the android screenshots yet? Dec 07 14:14:26 brocktice: nope Dec 07 14:14:51 and i was only able to find 3 screen shots online, since my phone can;t take any Dec 07 14:15:20 no usb support as of yet, and the one screen shot app i found woulnd;t take one Dec 07 14:16:13 i'm going to use 3-4 of the ones from http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Android_SDK_Update_a_Little_Late_to_the_Party though Dec 07 14:18:19 joeyjones, Ah, yeah no DDMS if you don't have the USB. Dec 07 14:18:28 yup Dec 07 14:18:37 i do have the sdk though Dec 07 14:18:45 With native binaries, can one call them from the java VM? Dec 07 14:18:49 so i may make some screen shots with the emulator there Dec 07 14:19:05 joeyjones, Oh, that would be good. Give you more contro.. Dec 07 14:19:07 control even Dec 07 14:21:41 so i jsut opened the emulator for the first time and it seems to have frozen :p Dec 07 14:21:49 :( Dec 07 14:22:27 nvm, got it. Dec 07 14:22:58 heh Dec 07 14:23:04 The first launch takes a long time (or a very long time if you're unlucky). Dec 07 14:23:07 it made me "turn on" the emulated phone Dec 07 14:23:30 very long would be nice, i want a screeny of the booting screen Dec 07 14:23:43 and i forgot to install my fave screeny app Dec 07 14:24:01 joeyjones, Just take a screenshot on your machine. Dec 07 14:24:18 Printscreen in windows or apple-shift-3 on mac. Dec 07 14:24:20 i'm going to, but i want to use a specific app for it :p Dec 07 14:24:36 Linux I guess you can use GIMP Dec 07 14:24:42 here Dec 07 14:24:45 the emulator crashed Dec 07 14:26:56 nvm Dec 07 14:32:51 * jbq bangs his head on the table Dec 07 14:35:21 jbq? Dec 07 14:35:59 telling people "you're wasting your time, this is going nowhere" and seeing them keep going in that direction. Dec 07 14:36:20 Oh... yeah. Dec 07 14:39:19 brocktice: i changed the footnote to "See http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=17473 for instructions on how to flash the ROM." Dec 07 14:39:33 That's more useful Dec 07 14:51:51 I hate having to review a change along the lines of "you're doing it all wrong and this'll never fly", but sometimes that's really the only possible answer :-( Dec 07 14:53:56 "this isn't even wrong." Dec 07 14:54:39 yeah, I loved that quote. Dec 07 14:55:07 Not the kind of thing that I could write in a code review, though. Dec 07 15:01:07 jbq, you sound kind of like my boss -- he expects me to read his mind for some reason. Never gives me a direction until its too late Dec 07 15:01:25 then he just does it himself Dec 07 15:01:45 d03boy: lol. In this case it's even worse: the changes have already been done... Dec 07 15:02:06 eek Dec 07 15:02:31 Many of the more experienced Android engineers will gladly discuss the design of various things if people ask. Dec 07 15:03:34 It does take a bit of experience to realize that discussing the design ahead of time is often a better approach than trying to dive head first into writing code. Dec 07 15:03:45 * sparkle nods Dec 07 15:04:28 (the danger with the latter approach is that it takes a lot of discipline to abandon code that you've already written, no matter how wrong you know or you're told it is). Dec 07 15:12:10 morning Dec 07 15:12:58 Hey SanMehat Dec 07 15:12:59 hello cat in MeHat Dec 07 15:13:01 hey dude Dec 07 15:13:05 sup d03boy Dec 07 15:14:51 ? Dec 07 15:15:09 it is sunny out Dec 07 15:15:22 sweet Dec 07 15:36:01 hey, does anyone know if there is a way to add a proxy to the android browser? Dec 07 15:47:47 joeyjoey: HTC Vogue is CDMA. Looking at the open source code it's not clear that CDMA code is ready. How well does the thing work as a phone? Dec 07 15:48:34 bgupta: if you look at the pending code reviews you'll see that there's some significant work being contributed to make Android CDMA-ready. Dec 07 15:49:52 Yeah, I saw that... Dec 07 15:50:26 sadly, such large changes are really hard to review (and therefore to approve and submit). Dec 07 15:50:34 morning all Dec 07 15:50:43 Hey Disconnect :) Dec 07 15:50:53 omg its a robot run!! Dec 07 15:50:58 er.. i mean.. hi! Dec 07 15:51:12 Hey Disconect... Dec 07 15:51:27 * Disconnect stuck the wrong kernel on his phone, so no wifi. doh. Dec 07 15:51:51 and i shut down a ton of outside ports in prep for a slashdotting.. double doh. Dec 07 15:52:05 heh Dec 07 15:52:06 RyeBrye Got an alternate SplashScreen going last. night after you crashed... Dec 07 15:52:10 can anyone give me a linkt that describes the steps to connect my phone to my linux machine and start coding / debugging? Dec 07 15:53:02 http://source.android.com/ Dec 07 15:53:07 Phlogi: istr the sdk has those docs, but basically install the sdk, enable 'usb debugging' on the phone, and (for a test) run "adb shell" .. that should put you in a (non-root) shell on the phone. Dec 07 15:53:15 bgupta: thats platform, not sdk Dec 07 15:53:42 THen http://code.google.com/android/ Dec 07 15:54:01 but the source one has a link to the SDK site Dec 07 15:54:17 Disconnect: ok sounds easy :) I have the sdk already installed and played with the emulator once Dec 07 15:55:57 "adb devices" will show you whats hooked up (emu and phone) Dec 07 15:56:18 bgupta: i thought you went to sleep Dec 07 15:56:31 hey, does anyone know if there is a way to add a proxy to the android browser? Dec 07 15:56:39 I did it Dec 07 15:56:43 s 11am now Dec 07 15:56:50 still tired though Dec 07 15:57:02 bgupta: heh. 11am ... is that central US? Dec 07 15:57:18 EST Dec 07 15:57:29 New York City to be exact Dec 07 15:57:54 bgupta: oh. ok. yes. Dec 07 15:57:57 klowner (http://www.dugnet.com/klown/wallpaper/) made me a burning christmas tree, i think i'm gonna use that for my bootsplash :) with "if found..reward" info Dec 07 15:59:26 Need to start a Android/G1 hackery club in NYC. Sadly I only know two other geeks that have G1s in NYC. And I don't think either of them has the time or inclination to be doing any kernel stuff.. or even install custom firmware for that matter. Dec 07 16:00:01 ..why do you need a club? esp if there is nobody tehre Dec 07 16:00:28 Be your own one-person club, at least everyone will agree with you! Dec 07 16:00:54 if not, you have serious issues and should discuss some more ;) Dec 07 16:02:43 I'm sure there are people there just don't know any... basically it's fun to share... I guess usergroups are slowly but suring growing obsoselte with IRC and mailing lists and what not Dec 07 16:03:01 s/suting/surely/ Dec 07 16:03:09 damn Dec 07 16:03:17 i dont think so Dec 07 16:03:30 face to face communication is a great thing imo Dec 07 16:03:36 Actually, with laptops being so powerful, it is now easier than ever to meet around computers. Dec 07 16:03:47 true Dec 07 16:04:14 hmm is it possible to NOT load my phone when plugged on usb? Dec 07 16:04:43 Phlogi: what do you mean exactly? Dec 07 16:04:44 Yes... rc29+ gives you the option.. Dec 07 16:04:55 bgupta: where please? :) Dec 07 16:05:27 When you plug in there will be a notification.. click on it and choose mount or do not mount Dec 07 16:05:39 bgupta: but I want to copy files :P Dec 07 16:05:58 uu phone is really slow while copying :) Dec 07 16:06:14 Well, if you want to go low-level you can use adb push and adb pull to move files across. Dec 07 16:06:40 i keep getting a Fatal error while installing the USB driver on Windows. Is it a known issue ? Dec 07 16:07:07 neerhaj: are you running a 64-bit windows? Dec 07 16:07:21 Windows XP SP2 32-bit Dec 07 16:07:47 I think its not good for the battery if its loaded only a bit and at a random level Dec 07 16:07:52 are you running through a USB1 hub? Apparently there are issues if the G1 isn't plugged as USB2. Dec 07 16:08:08 Phlogi: oh, you meant charging. No, there's no such option. Dec 07 16:08:24 jbq: there must be such an option then :) Dec 07 16:08:29 I've also had issues on low power USB ports... Dec 07 16:08:30 LiIon batteries don't care that much about being partially charged. Dec 07 16:08:41 jbq: you can really argue about that... Dec 07 16:08:49 I'm not a battery expert :D Dec 07 16:08:56 (so I won't argue) Dec 07 16:08:59 jbq: me neither but I once read a lot about it Dec 07 16:09:06 and imho it does matter indeed Dec 07 16:09:13 jbq: it is on USB2 :( Dec 07 16:09:34 i even tried reinstalling the hub from device manager Dec 07 16:09:52 neerhaj: ONe think that sounds confusing.. Why did you have to install USB drivers.. they should be included with ur OS? Dec 07 16:10:03 neerhaj: sorry, those are the only 2 points I knew could cause problems, I don't have any other idea. Dec 07 16:10:46 bgupta: android USB drivers for testing apps on G1 Dec 07 16:11:46 ah... Dec 07 16:11:50 jbq: is there any change in the drivers that come with the 1.0_r2 SDK ? Dec 07 16:11:58 neerhaj: I don't believe so. Dec 07 16:17:48 on those documentation they always talk about the emulator.. but how can I do it on my phone? Do I need to add that in eclipse or seomthing? Dec 07 16:18:42 From Eclipse, there shouldn't be any major difference between using the phone and the emulator (once the phone is turned on and plugged in, of course). Dec 07 16:19:45 jbq: and eclipse will find it? where can I see that? And where do I enter those commands? Dec 07 16:21:12 I'm not sure, I've never done development with Eclipse. Dec 07 16:21:12 ah its a unix executable of course :) Dec 07 16:21:29 so adb devices list my phone :) Dec 07 16:23:31 the adb push gives me read only error Dec 07 16:23:51 ah because I mounted usb ;) Dec 07 16:24:09 can anyone recommend an editor app for the phone? Dec 07 16:33:07 grr; does anybody know the solution to a segmentation fault of javac, this is on macos 10.5.. Dec 07 16:35:57 the android USB driver issue is solved :) Dec 07 16:36:23 What was the android USB driver issue? Dec 07 16:37:46 mmitchel: I am having the same issue. :( Dec 07 16:38:00 TiberiumX: i was getting Fatal error installing usb driver on Windows XP Dec 07 16:38:02 Was too tired last night to work on it... Dec 07 16:38:26 Haha, good thing T-mobile got rid of their 1GB cap. I used a little over that during this last billing period. Dec 07 16:38:36 Want to compare notes and see if we are seeing the same exact issue? Dec 07 16:38:54 in case someone else faces the same problem in future, goto C:\Windows\system32\drivers and delete androidusb.sys and rename wdf01000.sys to wdf01000.sys.old Dec 07 16:40:44 And I spent all of 11 minutes talking to someone with it. Dec 07 16:41:05 mmitchel: http://pastebin.com/m57da8e0d here is my output. Dec 07 16:41:31 TiberiumX: wait. Are you saying that T-Mobile's phone support was _useful_? Dec 07 16:41:33 I must have misunderstood Dec 07 16:42:42 is it possible to use the android market application from the emulator? Dec 07 16:42:48 Not part of that 11, but they have been useful in the past. But I'd know better than to ask them any hard questions -- I just wanted my number ported from another carrier, which I'm sure they do all the time. Dec 07 16:43:21 If you've got root, maybe you could pull the market package from the phone. Dec 07 16:43:29 loke, I tried this morning without success. Dec 07 16:43:30 But it's not on there. Dec 07 16:43:40 Is the market app on the developer units? Dec 07 16:43:48 I couldn't actually find the market app, but I found something that looked like it contained the app stuff. Dec 07 16:44:01 Vender.apk or something like that. Dec 07 16:44:25 Vending.apk Dec 07 16:44:40 Hey, with a name like that, maybe you could get myfaves on there too! Dec 07 16:44:44 Probably Dec 07 16:44:48 It also contained YouTube stuff. Dec 07 16:45:01 All I could tell was from the pixmaps Dec 07 16:45:16 anyone knows if there is a vpn client developed for android? Dec 07 16:46:37 Phlogi: there won't be for a long while - its not 'secure' (has to run as root) Dec 07 16:56:02 I want to take an address (text) from my desktop and send it to my android in order to create a bookmark. I sent the text as a chat message to the android, but I can't figure out how to copy the text for pasting elsewhere (like in the "Go To Url" menu item in the browser) Dec 07 16:56:37 menu c doesn't seem to work when I scroll up to the text I pasted Dec 07 16:57:20 because hitting "menu" causes the menu to pop up Dec 07 16:59:09 in the search dialogs menu c / menu v works fine Dec 07 17:07:03 We've being invaded by DannyB's - two of them in 7 minutes... ;-) Dec 07 17:07:14 s/ve/re/ Dec 07 17:07:15 jbq meant: We're being invaded by DannyB's - two of them in 7 minutes... ;-) Dec 07 17:08:13 Disconnect: hmm shit :S Dec 07 17:08:45 wheeee finally got my upgrade, got a G1 :) Dec 07 17:08:49 and its pre-RC30 Dec 07 17:10:28 anyone know how I can keep root before I upgrade to rc30? Dec 07 17:10:56 Disconnect: do you know off-hand the size of the system, data and cache partitions? I think it's about 67.5, 64, and 77, but I'm not entirely sure and I don't have the right equipment here. Dec 07 17:11:15 Foxdie, http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448 Dec 07 17:11:17 that sounds about right but i can check easy enough. Dec 07 17:11:30 Thanks, I'd appreciate. Dec 07 17:11:59 thanks eldenz Dec 07 17:12:44 jbq: http://pastebin.ca/1278889 in blocks but.. Dec 07 17:13:15 perfect, thanks :) Dec 07 17:14:06 Foxdie, i think you need to get root, then modded recovery image, and finally the 'modified rc30 full version' 1.2 Dec 07 17:15:01 okay Dec 07 17:15:08 step 1, get root Dec 07 17:15:10 anyone know how to generate rgb888 images w/ imagemagick? Dec 07 17:15:27 I've got a G1, just out of the box Dec 07 17:15:56 its prompting me to install an update, I am telling it to do it later Dec 07 17:16:16 I went to a blank screen, typed in "reboot" and hit enter, and sure enough it did Dec 07 17:16:17 Foxdie: you want to do this sooner rather than later. The phone will only take "no" for an answer so many times. Dec 07 17:16:26 Guys am I missing anything: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=G1_keyboard_and_button_shortcuts Dec 07 17:16:43 okay, what must I do? Dec 07 17:17:02 I'm downloading the images now, but I don't know what eldenz means by "get root" Dec 07 17:17:10 I dont have a terminal / console app installed Dec 07 17:17:22 Disconnect: WHat is your source image format? Dec 07 17:17:34 png Dec 07 17:17:45 The forum has full insructions. But basically, download the ~64M zip file, rename it to "update.zip" and place it in the root directory of your SD card, boot your phone to recovery mode (I forget which button you hold down offhand), and flash it (again, with a keystroke that isn't in my brain at the moment) Dec 07 17:18:17 power and home Dec 07 17:19:12 Foxdie: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Lot's of howtos here... Dec 07 17:19:26 thanks guys Dec 07 17:21:38 how can I prevent the phone from automatically installing rc8/rc30 (UK G1, its on RC7 at the moment)? Dec 07 17:21:46 Foxdie: Get a developer device? Dec 07 17:21:52 Foxdie: hit 'no' but eventually you're gonna accidentally hit yes. Dec 07 17:21:55 so install jf's update instead Dec 07 17:22:10 JF's update? Dec 07 17:22:16 (don't listen to ttuttle he's just bitter that he can't brag about his bootloader anymore) Dec 07 17:22:19 is that the same as http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root_UK ? Dec 07 17:22:20 Disconnect: :P Dec 07 17:22:31 that is exactly it yes :) Dec 07 17:22:38 See the "keeping root" sections of the wiki.. one for US and one for UK.. Dec 07 17:22:39 * ttuttle should really find a way to get the ADP1's bootloader onto the production G1's, and sell it ;-) Dec 07 17:22:42 cool thanks Dec 07 17:23:10 I'm a linux user and I used to own a zaurus, I'd like to keep as much access to the underlying system as I can Dec 07 17:23:24 ttuttle: erm. we have that already. Dec 07 17:23:26 the prospect of being able to compile some linux command line utilities would be awesome :) Dec 07 17:23:31 Disconnect: Oh, even with RC30? Really? Dec 07 17:23:38 Foxdie: Interesting thing... ANdroid has been ported to at least on eZaurus model Dec 07 17:23:41 Foxdie: no need to have root for that. Dec 07 17:23:51 I know, but it helps sometimes Dec 07 17:23:52 ttuttle: there are little birds whispering that we can revert, so... yes. Dec 07 17:24:01 Disconnect: Cool. Dec 07 17:24:04 bgupta, I got rid of my C760 ages ago :( Dec 07 17:24:15 Disconnect: /me would guess that some of the flashing methods probably don't check version. Dec 07 17:24:18 thats old news. the new news is the bootloader dump (shoulda been a week ago but dream_kill was busy :/ ..) Dec 07 17:24:37 ttuttle: ok Dec 07 17:24:54 I went for a HTC Universal because it had 3G, WiFi and Bluetooth built in, on the hope that the HTC-linux team would continue development on it.. they stopped before they finished work on the internal flash code Dec 07 17:25:04 so..anyone? png to rgb888? (or png straight to logo.rle) Dec 07 17:25:18 but to be honest, the G1 is way sexier than a Uni :) Dec 07 17:25:40 so just to confirm, the phone won't auto patch? Dec 07 17:25:49 its just human error that will make it. ie. me accidentally telling it to update? Dec 07 17:25:59 Disconnect: you want to convert it? ImageMagick will do that. I think the format is "raw", and you have to specify the bit depth... Dec 07 17:26:21 Foxdie: it -can- autopatch but i think (at least in the usa) the update was sent with "query forever" set Dec 07 17:26:45 But nothing does the "rle" format, that's google-specific. There's a very similar standard format usually called "sgi+" or "sgi", but it's not compatible. Dec 07 17:26:52 or at least, there are reports of very careful users who went for weeks (which is an unreasonable time, programatically, if query forever wasn't set) Dec 07 17:26:53 Foxdie, once you get the modded RC30 installed, you can install the ENgineering bootloader... which means you can always install your own unsigned firmware image, which means you can recover from an autopatch. Dec 07 17:27:05 ooooh :) Dec 07 17:27:09 Unless the autopatch itself rewrites the bootloader :) Dec 07 17:27:11 andyross: cool 'raw' was what i wanted :) thanks Dec 07 17:27:23 I'll put that on afterwards Dec 07 17:27:35 right now I've just got a stock G1 with RC7 (UK) Dec 07 17:28:30 Foxdie: Disconnect has posted instructions for going from the modded firmware to the engineering bootloader.. http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Dec 07 17:28:37 Disconnect, I'm sure several of us would like to hear what those little birdies are saying. Dec 07 17:28:45 probably. Dec 07 17:29:11 and when its released, you can be sure i'll announce it. Dec 07 17:29:20 i've seen it work tho :) repeatly. Dec 07 17:30:09 Good to know Dec 07 17:30:35 * ttuttle loves watching the G1 get hacked, and wishes he could participate. Dec 07 17:31:18 ttuttle: it's definitely fascinating :) Dec 07 17:31:22 jbq: :) Dec 07 17:31:56 jbq: The ADP1 does make it less attractive, but hacking is fun! Dec 07 17:32:02 As long as nobody gets hurt (uh, as long as it doesn't result in additional costs for T-Mobile), it's all good fun. Dec 07 17:32:06 jbq: Yeah. Dec 07 17:32:15 jbq: /me doesn't like it when carriers get angry, as they can be nasty. Dec 07 17:32:45 jbq: (Also, we should be nice to T-Mo, as they took on a huge risk carrying the G1 -- they wanted an iPhone competitor, but it could've flopped, leaving them with lots of phones nobody wants and a bad image.) Dec 07 17:34:04 okay, does this procedure to install the recovery image and then the hacked rc8/rc30 image involve the use of a windows pc? Dec 07 17:34:07 because I've only got a mac Dec 07 17:34:11 the developer units give the same access, no? Dec 07 17:34:14 Foxdie, Mac should work. Dec 07 17:34:18 That's how I did mine before. Dec 07 17:34:27 Foxdie: no. Anything that can write to a fat32 partition mounted from the phone will work. Dec 07 17:34:52 Well, my concern is that careless hacking could result in higher costs for T-Mobile, which could make them and all others less willing to carry Android phones in the futures, or would make them require further restrictions on the way Android works (which in turn would take precious engineering time away from other tasks, and would probably make further hacks even more risky). Dec 07 17:35:05 and whats this adb command? Dec 07 17:35:21 jbq: Yeah. And restrictions suck, period. Dec 07 17:35:36 jbq: There's a tightrope that Android needs to walk, and it's doing a good job so far. Dec 07 17:35:46 jbq: or... they could just make the phones actually useful without having to crack it. I'm pretty sure it will be, as long as you're not buying it from a US carrier Dec 07 17:35:49 dfakldfjdgj all i can get imagemagick to do is add an alpha channel. :( Dec 07 17:35:57 I hate writing additional code to make software do less... (Grrr DRM0. Dec 07 17:36:05 loke: So, it needs to be impossible to do certain things, like spam 911. Dec 07 17:36:29 jbq: It goes both ways, though. The need for "careless hacking" that can brick the phone is a direct result of your (or T-Mobile's, yada yada) attempt to lock it down in the first place. Had you just shipped fastboot on the phone, no one would be warning about bricking during a bootloader reflash. Dec 07 17:36:33 ttuttle: when do you mean "needs"? Dec 07 17:36:35 loke: So letting random customers flash their own images will *eventually* result in some idiot flashing malicious code. Dec 07 17:36:52 loke: I mean, if Android phones (even running modded android) start causing trouble, the shit hits the fan. Dec 07 17:36:56 ttuttle: well, there are plentyy of phones out there that allows it, and the sky isn't falling yet Dec 07 17:36:59 Yeah I was wondering where those needs came from as well. Dec 07 17:37:14 loke: Um... most phones require the user to dial that, and won't let apps do it. Dec 07 17:37:16 andyross: you mean, had *they* shipped fastboot. They took a guess in what would result in the fewer costs for them, I guess. Dec 07 17:37:18 loke: Also, things like tethering. Dec 07 17:37:29 loke: T-Mo isn't allowing tethering, and depends on the phone manufacturers to not enable it. Dec 07 17:37:37 ttuttle, Yo, hi from #cslounge. Dec 07 17:37:39 ttuttle: tethering? all modern Nokia phones do it Dec 07 17:37:39 loke: If production phones shipped with unlocked bootloaders, people could just dodge that. Dec 07 17:37:42 paulproteus: Hey! Dec 07 17:37:45 ttuttle: wow you are so wrong so fast i can't even keep up. Dec 07 17:37:47 Disconnect: Sorry. Dec 07 17:37:52 Yeah I was able to tether on Tmo with my RAZR2. Dec 07 17:37:55 Disconnect: I assumed T-Mo shut it off on their phones. Dec 07 17:37:56 ttuttle, T-Mo said it didn't care if people tether. Dec 07 17:37:57 Of course, it wasn't 3G. Dec 07 17:38:00 paulproteus: Whoa, really?! Dec 07 17:38:02 paulproteus: Damn. Dec 07 17:38:08 lets go backwards. tethering - tmob doesn't care, thats why they have data caps. and they've said its fine. (and its fine on their other smartphones.) Dec 07 17:38:13 ttuttle: how could they? unless they ban non-tmbile phones on their network, which they can't do Dec 07 17:38:15 Disconnect: Awesome. Dec 07 17:38:17 They said, basically, We're not going to stop anything users try to do with their G1s. Dec 07 17:38:18 loke: Yeah, true. Dec 07 17:38:22 paulproteus: Wow. Dec 07 17:38:24 * ttuttle stands corrected. Dec 07 17:38:29 paulproteus, We'll see how that goes. Dec 07 17:38:31 paulproteus: What's up? Dec 07 17:38:36 and there are -tons- of flashable phones out there. (especially htc) Dec 07 17:38:36 Indeed we will see! Dec 07 17:38:47 paulproteus, were you at JHU until recently? Dec 07 17:38:49 Yes, *especially* HTC. Dec 07 17:38:57 brocktice, Yes... are you Brock? Dec 07 17:38:57 remember. gsm allows -any- gsm phone. the security is not in the phone. the network security is in the NETWORK. Dec 07 17:39:01 Yep yep Dec 07 17:39:08 Oh my God, blast from the past! Dec 07 17:39:09 (-: Dec 07 17:39:12 Never did come to any more ACM meetings. Busy being a grad student. Dec 07 17:39:13 HTC are very hackable :) Dec 07 17:39:14 small world, etc. Dec 07 17:39:25 Disconnect++ Dec 07 17:39:27 Foxdie: /me has enjoyed the G1 (my only HTC phone) so far. Dec 07 17:39:37 I've had a couple Dec 07 17:39:48 I have a few HTC phones, but I always buy them unlocked with the i-Mate brand. Dec 07 17:39:48 HTC Universal, HTC Artemis, HTC BlueAngel... Dec 07 17:39:56 Universal, Magician. Dec 07 17:40:00 :) Dec 07 17:40:06 still got your uni? Dec 07 17:40:09 ok, time to go to sleep. it's late Dec 07 17:40:11 We can chat in #htc-linux if you want (-: Dec 07 17:40:17 I'm already in there ;) Dec 07 17:40:24 (one of my idle channels) Dec 07 17:40:27 Yeah, thought you looked familiar (-: Dec 07 17:40:29 * ttuttle loves the G1, but wishes the screen was more high-res and the keyboard had more substantial key travel and stuff. Dec 07 17:40:30 the only security the g1 needs to worry about is it's own - data leak and commercial apps, etc Dec 07 17:41:01 okay, question, how can I get access to the G1 to flash these files? Dec 07 17:41:19 * andyross thinks ttuttle is asking for an N810, not a phone... Dec 07 17:41:25 I feel like Google's tiny non-free parts are there solely to taunt me. Dec 07 17:41:39 paul, nirvana Dec 07 17:41:53 its something not to taunt you, but something for you to work towards Dec 07 17:41:56 At first, I thought, "Well, a useful Linux phone, but no root access. Confound them!" Now it's "A useful Linux phone with root, but I have to agree to the Distributor Agreement and pay $25 and become part of the Marketplace?". Dec 07 17:41:56 andyross: fyi the format is 'rgb' :) Dec 07 17:42:06 if you had everything right there dude you'd get bored of it pretty quickly Dec 07 17:42:17 at least this way, you've got little titbits to look forward to :) Dec 07 17:42:39 paulproteus: Wanna see some of the top-secret proprietary code? Dec 07 17:42:40 thats the positive spin I put on it in my head at least, hehe Dec 07 17:42:42 It makes me feel like a moron; either I compromise now in the hopes that Google is actually reasonable tomorrow, or I don't compromise and I gain nothing. Dec 07 17:42:49 paulproteus: there's a third option: help the OpenMoko porting effort. No Market developer agreement there, and you'll have Android with root. Dec 07 17:42:49 paulproteus: "int i;" Dec 07 17:43:11 jbq: Is that porting Android to OpenMoko devices? Dec 07 17:43:14 jbq, Right, except they only have GPRS. But point taken. Dec 07 17:43:36 I do have a FreeRunner, and as soon as power management works on it I'll just use it and shut up probably (while muttering quietly about GPRS data speeds). Dec 07 17:43:49 ttuttle: yes. I brought over some changes from the internal repository to git last week to help bootstrap official support for ARMv4T in Android. Dec 07 17:44:01 jbq: Cool. Dec 07 17:44:06 jbq: Are they decent phones? Dec 07 17:44:37 Except GPRS-only for data, it's quite decent, if a little big. Dec 07 17:44:48 It's quite livable, except when there are software issues. Dec 07 17:44:50 ttuttle: I feel that they're a step below the G1, but $399 for a fully-unlocked device isn't that bad. Dec 07 17:45:02 jbq: Yeah, like the ADP1 :) Dec 07 17:45:15 brocktice, can you tell me how I flash / do whatever with this recovery image? Dec 07 17:45:23 I've got the phone plugged in by usb to my mac now Dec 07 17:45:31 its mounted the SD card as a removable drive Dec 07 17:45:41 I've got both AndroidMod.xxx and update.zip on my desktop ready to use Dec 07 17:45:59 Foxdie, it's on the xda developers site somewhere. Dec 07 17:46:12 I've done it about a month ago but I'm not enough of an expert to tell you offhand. Dec 07 17:48:10 Foxdie: http://tinyurl.com/69qw3b Dec 07 17:48:11 ooh there are dev devices! =D prolly already discussed in here last nite tho Dec 07 17:48:21 cheers, looking now Dec 07 17:48:23 jsharkey: There are! Dec 07 17:48:29 weird, my Dev Phone 1 order seems to have disappeared entirely. Dec 07 17:48:34 infobot: devphones Dec 07 17:48:35 i guess devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2, or http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Dec 07 17:48:49 orospakr, disappeared where? Dec 07 17:48:55 *from where Dec 07 17:49:01 no charge on the credit card, and nothing on the tracking page. Dec 07 17:49:04 it was there yesterday... Dec 07 17:49:12 infobot: androidmod Dec 07 17:50:20 orospakr, Shipping tracking? Did you already get a number? Dec 07 17:50:33 argh, I wish I had actually printed the confirmation page. Dec 07 17:50:35 i wonder if the dev phones omit the google-apps, and just have emulator apps Dec 07 17:52:45 jsharkey: the ordering page says that the google apps are there as well. Dec 07 17:53:07 Foxdie: You prolly want this.. http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root_UK (Sorry wandered off for lunch) Dec 07 17:53:18 * ttuttle is so happy to see that people will get dev phones. Dec 07 17:53:45 Disconnect RGB888, is 8-bits per channel, yeah? Dec 07 17:53:51 yah Dec 07 17:53:59 oh awesome ^.^ if only i had an address to ship it to lul Dec 07 17:54:06 jsharkey: Where are you? Dec 07 17:54:08 ttuttle: is there a big price diff between the dev phones and the normal ones? Dec 07 17:54:12 i have to give back my current device before dec31 :( Dec 07 17:54:16 ttuttle: yeah, it took some significant effort, so it's good to see that the effort isn't wasted. Dec 07 17:54:21 BluesLee, if you live anywhere else but the US, yes. :P Dec 07 17:54:25 budwaa: There's not. Dec 07 17:54:27 budwaa: whoops Dec 07 17:54:30 BluesLee: There's not. Dec 07 17:54:32 ttuttle: drove into bay area last nite Dec 07 17:54:39 BluesLee: An unlocked G1 and an ADP1 both cost $400. Dec 07 17:54:58 orospakr: so where is the advantage? Dec 07 17:54:58 s/unlocked/unsubsidized/; Dec 07 17:55:03 ttuttle: in the usa. international shipping is super rediculously high Dec 07 17:55:07 Disconnect: Ah. Dec 07 17:55:11 it can easily pass $600USD total Dec 07 17:55:15 Disconnect: That's absurd. Dec 07 17:55:16 wow Dec 07 17:55:22 Disconnect: /me heard it was customs fees/taxes. Dec 07 17:55:23 (and actually, its $425 for the ADP1 in the usa..) Dec 07 17:55:33 Disconnect: Yeah, but you're likely to use the $25 anyway. Dec 07 17:55:41 +taxes+shipping to europe Dec 07 17:55:45 ttuttle: customs, taxes, fees, fees on the taxes, taxes on the customs, customs on the shipping fees... :( Dec 07 17:55:49 ttuttle: depends on whether you are making apps (no need for ADP1) or platform... Dec 07 17:55:49 jbq: :( Dec 07 17:55:53 Disconnect: True. Dec 07 17:56:13 Yeah, it sounds like we need some international distributors. Dec 07 17:56:17 But it's a start. Dec 07 17:56:17 I ordered it yesterday, and the whole thing came to about $800CAD (more than $600USD). Now Brightstar doesn't know about the order id, which perhaps is just as well because I had some buyer's remorse anyway. ;) Dec 07 17:56:19 in other words no real advantages Dec 07 17:56:23 BluesLee: No! Dec 07 17:56:27 BluesLee: You can flash your own bootloader! Dec 07 17:56:32 BluesLee: (And the back cover looks AWESOME.) Dec 07 17:56:39 BluesLee: s/bootloader/anything/ really. Dec 07 17:56:49 yes! Dec 07 17:56:50 BluesLee: (What I was trying to say is the bootloader is unlocked, so you can flash anything.) Dec 07 17:56:58 the GSM modem is also unlocked. Dec 07 17:57:00 BluesLee: The regular G1 won't let you do that easily, or perhaps at all. Dec 07 17:57:01 use any SIM you want. Dec 07 17:57:06 orospakr, Where can you check order status? Dec 07 17:57:08 BluesLee: Oh yeah, that too -- no SIM lock. Dec 07 17:57:14 I didn't see anything like that. Dec 07 17:57:17 ttuttle: i guess a developer can unlock the bootloader himself Dec 07 17:57:29 BluesLee: Why would you guess that? Dec 07 17:57:33 BluesLee: It's not true, AFAIK. Dec 07 17:57:38 brocktice, go to the Android Market, go to order a phone, and then when you're on the brightstar page, there should be a track order option at the top. Dec 07 17:57:48 i read that someone ported debian lenny to the g1 Dec 07 17:57:52 BluesLee: I mean, it may be hackable. Dec 07 17:57:55 BluesLee: Yeah, with root access. Dec 07 17:57:59 damn. wasn't there a set of utils out there for modifying the initrd? Dec 07 17:58:02 BluesLee: But a stock G1, purchased now, is not hackable. Dec 07 17:58:07 (AFAIK) Dec 07 17:58:32 orospakr, Ah, that wasn't taking me anywhere before but now it is. Thanks. Dec 07 17:58:33 BluesLee: Not easily... you need a root exploit to even attempt it.. so far you need a phone with rc29 or lower installed to exploit.. all known exploits are closed with rc30+ Dec 07 17:58:36 ttuttle: um. i can flash anything. seriously, get past it. anyone with root can flash the engineering spl, same one on the adp1 Dec 07 17:58:39 i dont own a g1, why the hell it has no root access?:-) Dec 07 17:58:45 Disconnect: *with root* Dec 07 17:58:56 Disconnect: BluesLee does not have a G1, so cannot get root, since it will likely come with RC30, right? Dec 07 17:58:59 brocktice, ah, it did something like that to me the first time I tried to navigate to it today. Dec 07 17:59:13 reportedly most of them come with rc28 still. but the factory is shipping rc30. so eventually.. Dec 07 17:59:16 orospakr, yeah it doesn't show my order either. Dec 07 17:59:21 Hmm Dec 07 17:59:24 Disconnect: The fact that RC29 and before had an exploit does not mean "the G1 is rootable". It means "*some* G1s are rootable", and fewer as time goes on. Dec 07 17:59:37 I did print my order conf. It's the same thing I got in the email, basically. Dec 07 17:59:38 ttuttle: i have a freerunner;-) Dec 07 17:59:42 heh, I guess I'll wait until Monday to see what's going on, if I'm not the only one with this problem. Dec 07 17:59:43 but again, there is a way to revert. it'll get released eventually. Dec 07 17:59:48 BluesLee: Nice. Dec 07 17:59:55 Disconnect: Do you know it? Dec 07 17:59:57 "You haven't ordered anything yet" Dec 07 18:00:08 ttuttle: yep. seen it work. Dec 07 18:00:11 Disconnect: Nice! Dec 07 18:00:16 ttuttle: not sure if it is so nice ... struggling here and there Dec 07 18:00:21 ttutle: I would be surprised if this is the one and only root exploit ever... however the incentive to keep finding the exploits has greatly been lowered now that dev devices are available... Dec 07 18:00:28 bgupta: Yeah. Dec 07 18:00:52 bgupta, heh, I bet that was at least part of the reason why they decided to release dev devices. :) Dec 07 18:00:55 So, let me revise my statement. The ADP1 is intended for development, so you won't have to perform any voodoo to get in. The G1 is not. Dec 07 18:01:07 orospakr: They just didn't want devs to have to root their phones, since ideally they won't be able to at all. Dec 07 18:01:15 Oh, we always wanted to release dev devices... Dec 07 18:01:38 * ttuttle goes to grab lunch. Dec 07 18:01:50 I beleive google just needed some time to get the dev devices going.. and didn't want to steal any of t-mobile's launch thunder. Dec 07 18:02:17 maybe there are too many of those devices and nobody wants them, hehe Dec 07 18:03:03 are there any statistics how many g1's are sold? Dec 07 18:04:56 okay, what about portability Dec 07 18:05:10 Personally, I think that rather than having seperate devices.. there should be an offical method to convert G1s to dev devices.. eg: A factory unlock code, that would allow phones to be updated with the eng. firmware, similar to carrier sim unlock codes.. IE: It shouldn't be restrictive, and should allow just about anyone who owns a G1 to update it, if they are technically proficient.. Dec 07 18:05:21 on which devices besides the freerunner android is ported? Dec 07 18:05:31 bgupta: we've got that, if they are techincally proficient enough to keep root :) Dec 07 18:05:36 I suspect the main reason they don't do this is fear of a slew of bricks going back to t-mobile Dec 07 18:06:09 Disconnect: LIke you said factory is shipping with rc30 now.. so no we don't Dec 07 18:06:22 WEll you and I do. Dec 07 18:06:27 retail is still selling rc28 or even rc18 Dec 07 18:07:03 Err, RC28 and RC19, IIRC. Dec 07 18:07:10 * ahaberlach hopes there's no RC18s out there. Dec 07 18:07:34 Alright.. let me restate. We shouldn't have to rely on an exploit to do this. It should be blessed, and kept as an ability going forward. Dec 07 18:07:36 does google provide special dev tools to access those dev phones? Dec 07 18:07:48 Same tools should work. Dec 07 18:07:50 yes Dec 07 18:07:58 BluesLee: part of the source code build Dec 07 18:07:59 (Fastboot) Dec 07 18:08:08 okay Dec 07 18:08:21 at some point they will release an nbh (full system flash) for the adp1 that has all the goog utils and such too Dec 07 18:08:26 fastboot is really cool... DIsconnect blogged about it last night Dec 07 18:08:47 up to date i only tried out the emulator and flashed once android on the freerunner, latter not ready yet Dec 07 18:09:13 fastboot: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/8 Dec 07 18:09:17 bgupta: how long it takes to boot the system? Dec 07 18:09:33 first boot on the emulator takes forever, after that its fast Dec 07 18:10:05 hello all Dec 07 18:10:11 not so long... if you are already running... but look at what fastboot can do.. it's an easy way to flash the device from your PC... Dec 07 18:10:26 and look at device variables, etc. Dec 07 18:10:45 e.g. you can update teh slash screen's using fastboot Dec 07 18:10:54 bgupta: similar to dfu-util Dec 07 18:11:04 s/teh slash/the splash/ Dec 07 18:11:04 bgupta meant: e.g. you can update the splash screen's using fastboot Dec 07 18:11:42 I suppose. I'm not familiar enough with the openmoko stuff to say for certain. Dec 07 18:11:56 hello does anyone know what filesystems android has default support for? Dec 07 18:12:35 binarybeats: yaffs2, fat, and a few "system" filesystems. Dec 07 18:12:58 well, actually android itself doesn't care that much, that's really an issue of kernel config. Dec 07 18:13:03 I was hoping there'd be a way to avoid the 4GB file limitations of fat32 Dec 07 18:13:06 bgupta: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util#Phrasebook Dec 07 18:13:30 maybe format my sd cards with ext3 or similar Dec 07 18:13:46 It certainly supports vfat (FAT32 and yaffs2 at the very least.. Dec 07 18:13:52 binarybeats: with a dev device, you could recompile the kernel with support for some other filesystem for the SD card, just be sure to disable all permissions on it. Dec 07 18:14:29 does someone know about portability to other htc phones like the htc touch hd? Dec 07 18:15:00 BluesLee: There is a port to the "SPrint Touch" let me find link to doc Dec 07 18:15:10 um help Dec 07 18:15:10 I think the touch uses the same chipset, so the kernel stuff shouldn't be too tough. Dec 07 18:15:17 You'll want an on-screen keyboard, though. :) Dec 07 18:15:21 bgupta: what is the method for flashing logo? Dec 07 18:15:30 I tried to boot my phone into recovery mode after installing the recovery.img Dec 07 18:15:38 by holding down home and power (end key) Dec 07 18:15:52 now all I"ve got is a exclaimation mark with a phone Dec 07 18:15:58 thats recovery mode Dec 07 18:16:00 sprint touch=htc touch pro? Dec 07 18:16:01 hit alt-l Dec 07 18:16:21 too many of them out there Dec 07 18:16:29 okay I did that, I see yellow text Dec 07 18:16:35 "android system recovery utility using test keys" Dec 07 18:16:43 Disconnect: "./bin/fastboot flash splash1 android_boot_black.rgb565" Dec 07 18:16:44 "can't open /cache/recovery/command" Dec 07 18:16:59 (splash1 being a named partition) Dec 07 18:17:01 right. thats recovery mode. if you put update.zip on the sd card, you can use alt-s (iirc? alt-u?) to flash it Dec 07 18:17:04 bgupta: rock Dec 07 18:17:20 I did do yes Dec 07 18:17:24 you should update your blog post. Dec 07 18:17:29 but I haven't completed the boot.img Dec 07 18:17:37 yah i will Dec 07 18:17:39 I'm not sure how to do that, do I do that in recovery mode? Dec 07 18:17:50 if so, how? I was using a telnet app on the phone Dec 07 18:17:59 Foxdie: you don't you do it by mounting it as usb and copying the file to the sd card. Dec 07 18:18:06 go back to that keeping-root wiki page Dec 07 18:18:14 it is on there Dec 07 18:18:24 on the SD card I have the testkeys recovery.img Dec 07 18:18:26 and the boot-nosecure.img Dec 07 18:18:27 bgupta: okay, i found it Dec 07 18:18:41 and the latest RC8 (RC30) cracked ver saved as update.zip on the SD card Dec 07 18:18:47 oh and the busybox binary Dec 07 18:18:59 Foxdie: ok then you can do the update.zip upgrade (its in teh yellow text i think its alt-s) Dec 07 18:19:10 okay, yes I know I can do that at this point Dec 07 18:19:16 Foxdie: You prolly want to read the US keeping root doc as well it is much more thourogh if I recall. Dec 07 18:19:35 but this page; http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Replace_Recovery_Partition - is telling me I need to install the boot image Dec 07 18:20:08 its part of the update.zip Dec 07 18:20:17 ok, so I can skip that step? Dec 07 18:20:49 Disconnect: Are you sure you can skip? I thought you needed to do that so you could install the update with the test keys? Dec 07 18:21:01 bgupta: he's in recovery with testkeys arleady Dec 07 18:21:06 ah.. Dec 07 18:21:34 that I am, but it seems I've got to flash_image boot /data/local/boot.img Dec 07 18:21:42 does fastboot honor partition sizes? Dec 07 18:22:11 by using a command called abd shell, I'm guessing abd shell is a dos command that connects over USB to the device Dec 07 18:22:17 Disconnect; My sense is that the partition sizes are baked into the loader and the android source. Dec 07 18:22:23 but I'm on a mac, so I'm not sure what I need to do next :) Dec 07 18:22:34 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Dec 07 18:22:40 I've done the keeping root page Dec 07 18:22:46 oh Dec 07 18:22:49 sorry I tell a lie Dec 07 18:22:50 did you do the alt-s? Dec 07 18:22:54 I've done the root thing Dec 07 18:22:54 Foxdie: you need to download the sdk and use adb from there Dec 07 18:22:56 (busybox) Dec 07 18:22:58 works in terminal on os x Dec 07 18:23:03 LOL i never realized that there's a class called "BoringLayout" in the official Android API! Dec 07 18:23:13 jbq: lol Dec 07 18:23:17 ahh okay, so the tool is in the SDK Dec 07 18:23:25 Disconnect: I haven't verified yet though... Dec 07 18:23:29 Disconnect seems to think I can skip boot.img flashing though Dec 07 18:23:39 and go straight to installing update.zip Dec 07 18:23:48 it might be inside the update.zip, can't remember Dec 07 18:23:54 if you aren't sure, take a look inside the zip Dec 07 18:24:13 ahh yes Dec 07 18:24:21 there's a boot.img in the RC8 update.zip Dec 07 18:24:24 its inside the zip. read that page - recovery.img (where yo are now) lets oyu flash everything else (including boo) Dec 07 18:24:25 boot Dec 07 18:25:09 hmm, the boot.img thats in the RC8 update.zip and the one that comes as part of the recovery mode zip differ in size Dec 07 18:25:26 Disconnect: The UK keeping root doc is much more sparse... I see foxdie's confusion. Dec 07 18:25:51 hmm. fastboot needs a "get partition" command. Dec 07 18:25:52 the one in update.zip was modified on the 13th nov, the one in the recovery image zip was modified on the 6th nov Dec 07 18:25:56 oh wait Dec 07 18:26:24 Disconnect: Check it out: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root_UK Dec 07 18:26:42 WE really should merge the two docs. Dec 07 18:26:49 yah Dec 07 18:27:08 its very sparse, however its correct. "To install, download the modified UK RC8 rename the file to update.zip, put it on the sd card, and reboot the phone into recovery mode (home + power). Once the recovery mode comes up, press alt+L to turn on the text display, and alt+S to apply the update." Dec 07 18:27:13 please do, it feels as if a lot of assumptions have to be made Dec 07 18:27:35 from my perspective as a first time G1 owner, doing this with little information is very intimidating Dec 07 18:27:43 I have to do stuff with the kids soon, but if no one gets around to today, I'll take a stab at updating the doc.. Dec 07 18:28:04 heh, family man by day, android guru by night? ;) Dec 07 18:28:10 Foxdie: for now, just use the other keeping root page but the uk update.zip Dec 07 18:28:17 Foxdie: Look at the US instructions... they are more verbose. Dec 07 18:28:36 ok :) Dec 07 18:29:38 ok so i'm concerned. the 512x512 logo.rle i've got is 520k. the one on the g1 is 52k. what did i miss? Dec 07 18:29:55 if its straight rgb888 its a bitmap. so it'll be the same size no matter what content. Dec 07 18:31:06 what is the logo.rle you've got? Dec 07 18:31:19 okay, flashing it now with alt+S Dec 07 18:31:28 rle is compressed fwiw Dec 07 18:31:36 The built-in logo is 320x480 565 compressed IIRC. Dec 07 18:31:52 correct Dec 07 18:31:54 what logo is this? making a new bootup logo? Dec 07 18:32:17 That's the G1 logo in the G1 (not the android logo with the pulsating droid). Dec 07 18:32:31 ahhh Dec 07 18:32:32 ok i see part of my problem. what i thoguht came from initrd actually came from a botched convert command earlier. doh. Dec 07 18:32:38 ooh, ready to reboot, /me cross finger Dec 07 18:33:32 oh, now there's an icon of a chip with a dotted arrow Dec 07 18:33:43 progress! Dec 07 18:33:46 I'm guessing thats the flashing Dec 07 18:33:56 and now its rebooted properly Dec 07 18:33:58 ^_^ Dec 07 18:34:07 yeah that "G1" logo is hideous Dec 07 18:34:25 fortunately you shouldn't need to see it very often Dec 07 18:34:33 (did they use a different logo in the UK build?) Dec 07 18:34:46 its just the word "G1" Dec 07 18:34:50 and then the t-mobile logo below it Dec 07 18:35:06 now I had an android with a pulsating logo Dec 07 18:35:09 *have Dec 07 18:35:13 And, IIRC, absolutely no antialiasing. It looks like something someone would have thrown up on an Apple ][ screen. Dec 07 18:35:45 you're referring to this? http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalebdf/2963106787/ Dec 07 18:36:06 god no Dec 07 18:36:07 Gah, maybe I should do something with my week-end instead of working :( Dec 07 18:36:08 its worse than that benley Dec 07 18:36:36 okay I"ve booted up, the build number shows TC5-RC8 Dec 07 18:36:57 Foxdie: I guess I haven't seen the screen you've got then Dec 07 18:37:00 jbq, Isn't that what weekends are for? Dec 07 18:37:23 brocktice: lol. I guess I have very long week-ends then ;-) Dec 07 18:37:30 jbq: Don't blame you for "working", the G1 is shaping up to be one of the coolest hobbyist mobile platforms out there... Dec 07 18:37:47 okay question Dec 07 18:37:48 jbq: lol Dec 07 18:37:52 jbq: I would have difficulty drawing the line between work and fun.. Dec 07 18:37:59 I've installed RC8 now and as such, can't simply type in telnetd on the G1 Dec 07 18:38:02 how do I start it now? Dec 07 18:38:07 bgupta: well that''s what's happening to me right now. Dec 07 18:38:23 Foxdie: you don't. use the sdk and run 'adb shell' to be root. or install a terminal app and use 'su' Dec 07 18:38:23 bgupta: I can assure you that the distinction is pretty straightforward for some things jbq deals with :o) Dec 07 18:39:01 Yeah I'd image hanging out on IRC falls squarely in the realm of "having fun" Dec 07 18:39:01 "Terminal Emulator" in the marketplace? Dec 07 18:39:16 xsdg: if every line I type doesn't start with "p4" or "git" it's not "work", right? Dec 07 18:39:23 jbq: haha Dec 07 18:39:27 * xsdg goes to break the build Dec 07 18:39:54 * jbq goes to spread pushpins and loctite on xsdg's chair. Dec 07 18:39:57 wow. $260 shipping to canadia. Dec 07 18:40:06 Foxdie: yah Dec 07 18:40:24 Disconnect: You need a test RGB image to test with? RyeBrye put one together last night... I can send it to you. Dec 07 18:40:52 bgupta: that'd be sweet. make sure i have the right filesize and such. (the flash partitions are on the spl side, and i don't trust it not to overwrite something i might need) Dec 07 18:41:42 Disconnect: it's pretty easy to check; it's 480x320 pixels at 2 bytes per pixel Dec 07 18:42:46 Found where RyeBrye posted it: http://www.ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_black.rgb565 Dec 07 18:43:57 also, you can always test it by making a boot image with initlogo.rle in it and see if that shows up on boot Dec 07 18:44:29 http://www.ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_image.jpg Is a JPG of it with a blue background... Dec 07 18:44:37 I am assuming that if it works there then it would work in the bootloader Dec 07 18:45:33 * Disconnect knows what got f'd up. 888 not 565 Dec 07 18:45:33 I'll just point out quietly that you shouldn't really be using the stylized android font Dec 07 18:46:21 Disconnect.. for imagemagick to get an rgb888 file you can run: convert in.png -depth 8 rgb:outfile Dec 07 18:46:40 right. but i need 565 Dec 07 18:46:45 Still trying to figure out if iumagemagick can convert to rgb565... RyeBrye ended up using Gimp Dec 07 18:46:47 xsdg But the logo is okay? Dec 07 18:46:57 brocktice: yes, green droid is ok Dec 07 18:47:03 you just start with rgb888 and run it through to565 Dec 07 18:47:07 The rle565 format is a google special. There's a converter in the source release somewhere Dec 07 18:47:44 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443431 Dec 07 18:48:13 note, correct flag is -rle, not -r Dec 07 18:48:32 cool it worked. Dec 07 18:48:52 Which worked? RyeBrye's image, or to565? Dec 07 18:48:53 i figured out what was wrong, simple enough to fix once i stop screwing up with imagemagick Dec 07 18:49:22 awesome Dec 07 18:49:26 it works :) Dec 07 18:49:27 thankyou all Dec 07 18:49:33 Any way to force the Music application to rebuild its database? I've fixed a lot of ID3 tags, but it retains the old values. Dec 07 18:50:02 TiberiumX: it should pick them up again automagically Dec 07 18:50:10 Foxdie: perhaps you would like to make the wiki instructions better Dec 07 18:50:14 TiberiumX: but try opening and closing the sd card door (also, is your device plugged into a computer?) Dec 07 18:50:15 TiberiumX: Just a guess but shouldn't switching SD Cards cause it to reindex? Dec 07 18:50:45 alansj, I think bgupta said he'd do that Dec 07 18:51:18 bgupta, for your reference, I installed the recovery image but NOT the boot image, I then flashed the UK update.zip Dec 07 18:51:24 I'll try remounting the SD card, but I would have expect that to work when it remounted after I copied the new files over with my PC. Dec 07 18:51:35 Yeah.. but for now I have to run.. If someone hasn't done it by the time I get back tonight I will take care of it.. Dec 07 18:51:40 TiberiumX: is your device currently plugged into a computer? Dec 07 18:51:42 the UK update.zip sets up busybox, removes the certs to prevent OTA updates Dec 07 18:52:06 Nope Dec 07 18:52:25 TiberiumX: did you make sure to unmount the device from your computer after changing the tags? Dec 07 18:53:03 Yep. It claimed to be syncing the files before it unmounted. Dec 07 18:53:14 alansj: I will update the docs tonight.. Dec 07 18:53:29 hmm... Dec 07 18:53:51 TiberiumX: maybe try rm'ing a file, make sure it goes away in the Music app, then re-add it and see if it shows up with the right metadata Dec 07 18:54:14 TiberiumX: if that works, file a bug. If it doesn't work, there's likely some other issue (possibly two ID3 tags, if it's an mp3) Dec 07 18:55:29 xsdg: Yeah, that was my next move. I was hoping there was an easy way. But it SHOULD pick up ID3 changes? Dec 07 18:55:43 TiberiumX: I've never tried it, but it definitely should Dec 07 18:58:53 ok added the update.zip and splash1 stuff to the fastboot page Dec 07 18:58:56 infobot: fastboot Dec 07 18:59:19 infobot: fastboot is a reflash protocol for android devices Dec 07 18:59:20 Disconnect: okay Dec 07 18:59:49 infobot: fastboot is also source code at http://tinyurl.com/57nusq Dec 07 18:59:50 Disconnect: okay Dec 07 19:00:01 infobot: fastboot is also cheatsheet at http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/8 Dec 07 19:00:02 okay, Disconnect Dec 07 19:00:23 infobot: fastboot is also fast Dec 07 19:00:24 okay, ttuttle Dec 07 19:00:28 (it's true) Dec 07 19:12:29 infobot: logo.rle is http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/9 Dec 07 19:12:30 okay, Disconnect Dec 07 19:14:48 Anyone know what Failure [-11] is from adb install? Dec 07 19:15:27 dangit, first scratch on g1 screen :( Dec 07 19:16:08 jsharkey, so it's not invincible? Dec 07 19:16:15 jsharkey: http://hellotxt.com/l/fhHh (disclaimer, thats my affiliate link) Dec 07 19:16:34 scratch you say Dec 07 19:16:45 you should have kept it in the case Dec 07 19:16:51 is anyone still using that case? Dec 07 19:17:09 wastrel, I use it when I throw the phone in my gym bag Dec 07 19:17:13 protects it from my keys Dec 07 19:17:31 Otherwise my left pocket is dedicated to my phone. Dec 07 19:17:36 Was before the G1 as well. Dec 07 19:18:49 jsharkey: my xp (and a couple others) is that you can cover and disappear minor scratches with the screen protector. i bought (but prolly won't use) the full body cladding Dec 07 19:21:58 oh cool thx for like Dec 07 19:22:01 link Dec 07 19:24:39 jesus christ. can someone -please- unsubscribe xaviar (with a shotgun if necessary) from android-*?? Dec 07 19:24:53 lol Dec 07 19:25:10 There are a few others I wouldn't mind moderating a bit. Dec 07 19:25:14 Disconnect: Who's xavier? (I'm not on the mailing lists.) Dec 07 19:25:29 ttuttle: you don't want to know. really. Dec 07 19:25:33 jbq: Okay. Dec 07 19:25:50 ttuttle: he's proof that a human could fail the turing test. Dec 07 19:25:55 jbq: Ah. Dec 07 19:26:05 ttuttle: http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=zdz4RxYAAADaoPEp-ibExScG6SnvSCGjo4cocwWvDVg2RHsu8f1bCg Dec 07 19:26:22 Facepalm. Dec 07 19:26:30 so, anyone wanna buy my G1 before I return it to T-mobile? last chance :D Dec 07 19:26:42 JesusFreke: How much, and why are you returning it, and is it unlocked? Dec 07 19:27:14 $400, because I'm getting a dev phone, and I no, but I can easily get the unlock code. Dec 07 19:27:22 Ah. Dec 07 19:27:26 ($400 incluing free shipping) Dec 07 19:27:27 Disconnect: Wow, what an idiot. Dec 07 19:28:14 ttuttle: most recently he entered my world in an argument about whether at&t had any non-3g service, whether an iphone had a sim, and why it would need on e when it is an ipod with over 10,000 apps. Dec 07 19:28:22 Disconnect: WOW. "I Phone does not have a SIM...I thought that iphone was also an ipod and has over 10,000 apps what is the point of a sim?" Dec 07 19:28:23 We should rename him Xavier "PEBKAC" Mathews. Dec 07 19:28:33 jbq: Can you seriously just get him banned from all Google services? Dec 07 19:28:50 jbq: i'll pay. we'll ALL pay. consider it a contribution to the betterment of android. seriously. Dec 07 19:29:09 <_Lunch> How do you programatically enable/disable bluetooth? Dec 07 19:29:12 remind me not to get on jbq's bad side :) Dec 07 19:29:27 Yeah, I'll throw in some money. Dec 07 19:32:39 random side note, continuing to read the lists, we could -easily- install apps on sd (with security support) if selinux was used instead of this hashed-up uid/gid thing. :( but NIH is often a driving force.. Dec 07 19:33:27 it's already hard enough to deal with plain linux, if we had to force every OEM to go with selinux things would be even harder on that front. Dec 07 19:34:10 how do you figure? Dec 07 19:35:28 jbq: selinux is just a bunch of super tight security policy extensions in the kernel Dec 07 19:35:38 and i'm sure tmobile is just -thrilled- at the multiple huge breaches of security on this thing :) properly configured, selinux makes root a moot point. and since (so far) nobody has managed to break in via the recovery image, it'd still be safe if read/write to /dev/mtd* was banned Dec 07 19:36:03 Disconnect: you have a point re: selinux, and i'm looking into it. Dec 07 19:36:34 another random topic change, just for amusement.. is there any chance at all that cacert.org root certs will be included in the stock images? (jf is gonna add it to his branch, but..) Dec 07 19:36:49 hey. i just had a thought. jf is no longer a hacker. now he's an android producer. sweet. he's all legit and stuff now. :) Dec 07 19:36:55 If you have specific knowledge about selinux, perhaps we should start talking about doing it together :) Dec 07 19:38:15 I continue to be risk-averse when it comes to merges, and 4-way merges are much harder than the 3-way merges we've got to deal with today (and history has proven that 3-way merges were a major pain to deal with). Dec 07 19:38:17 Disconnect : If a legitimate certificate authority wants to be in production devices as a root, they should initiate a conversation with security@android.com Dec 07 19:38:23 Oh man I've seen that guy before... Dec 07 19:39:27 SanMehat: i have worked with it a bit in the past, and am generally familiar with it. Dec 07 19:39:41 Could he be trolling? Dec 07 19:39:55 brocktice: xaviar? no, he's just a moron. Dec 07 19:40:09 brocktice: I can't give him that much credit. Dec 07 19:40:10 (ok he's a kid, but he's also dumb. he'll get older, but i doubt he'll get smarter.) Dec 07 19:40:43 Disconnect: well do me a favor and email me your thoughts and lets get a dialog going. Dec 07 19:42:16 SanMehat: my hacking time (and energy) is real variable these days but i would like to see some of the NIH stripped out, esp when it comes to security (upstream testing...) (as far as time, the long and short is 4 knee surgeries this year, one more in feb/mar, PT 3x a week until at least aug/sept) Dec 07 19:42:58 Although after glancing at cacert.org, I'm not sure they're a sufficiently trusted authority. Dec 07 19:43:15 Disconnect, What'd you do, tear your acl? Dec 07 19:43:31 well i dont see how relying on unix uid/gid security and process separation thats in all unixes 'nih' in regards to security. Dec 07 19:43:34 before i start a big mess, can someone explain, for real, why toolkit is better than busybox? esp as we start needing more daemons (dhcpd is my first hit, although there are others. cp would be nice. :) ..) Dec 07 19:43:58 however, you raised good points with selinux so i'm interested in adding that support potentially. Dec 07 19:44:07 i'm not interested in getting into a debate about NIH Dec 07 19:44:22 i'm just interested in getting good code in and improving things. Dec 07 19:44:25 brocktice: reconstructive surgery (move the patella tendon attachment on the shin) and it got infected, etc. right now my quad isn't especially attached. so.. meh. Dec 07 19:44:36 Yikes Dec 07 19:44:51 good luck on the surgeries Dec 07 19:44:55 Ditto Dec 07 19:45:09 SanMehat: i'm not looking for a debate. but seriously, we need stuff from busybox (unless you have the spare capacity to write and test a dhcp daemon..? :) ..) but all I've gotten is "you weren't here for the discussions" Dec 07 19:45:19 Is there a non-ghetto G1 accessory retailer? Dec 07 19:45:37 well for thoes ones *I* wasn't there.. it predates my involvement in the project Dec 07 19:45:42 thanks for the best wishes tho :) Dec 07 19:45:59 * jbq whistles "GPL GPL GPL" though he wasn't here for the discussions either. Dec 07 19:46:02 np Dec 07 19:46:48 well then just email me a brain-dump about selinux. your experiences would be valuable as i dig into it. Dec 07 19:46:56 and yeah, i'll read the code.. and the docs Dec 07 19:47:33 jbq: ..first, its an open source project :) second, so is the kernel, and third, its busybox. its not android/dalvik/gmail.. whats the problem? (and realistically, its almost as large a savings as bluez as soon as you get past the "ls top cat" and into "dhcpd, pppd, init"...) Dec 07 19:47:43 sorry, first android is open source i mean Dec 07 19:47:51 open source != GPL Dec 07 19:47:59 open source > GPL Dec 07 19:48:12 open source[] = {"GPL", "BSD", ... }; Dec 07 19:48:24 SanMehat: erm. not really, since tmob has effectively closed-sourced their g1 fork. Dec 07 19:48:31 SanMehat: Invalid Syntax Dec 07 19:48:34 benley: DOH Dec 07 19:48:56 * SanMehat ^5's benley Dec 07 19:48:57 * Disconnect isn't arguing that apache is a bad license for android - i think it is, but gpl would prevent adoption in that space, so... Dec 07 19:49:39 yup. Dec 07 19:49:53 rather, apache/bsd is a great license for android. its personally not my favorite license because of the bsd aspects :) Dec 07 19:50:00 anyways, send me that email when you have time. your brain may contain a useful nugget of information which will be usefull in my studying of selinux. Dec 07 19:51:42 * ttuttle wants to make a custom boot screen for his G1, but can't figure out what to put on it. Dec 07 19:51:46 can anyone that is registred on market buy that dev phone? Dec 07 19:52:05 ttuttle, How about the Terminator? He's an android. Dec 07 19:52:12 brocktice: Meh. Dec 07 19:52:35 androids[] = {"Terminator", "C-3PO", "G1", ... }; Dec 07 19:52:36 SanMehat: you saw the video of hitachi showing android on a zaurus with selinux right? Dec 07 19:52:46 Disconnect, where's taht? Dec 07 19:52:48 that even Dec 07 19:53:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yWDvcWu6I Dec 07 19:53:34 Ah, I was using the wrong search terms. Thanks. Dec 07 19:53:42 Phlogi, yeah, as soon as you registered as a dev and payed the 25 bucks you can order one Dec 07 19:53:52 sorr guys, gotta go for a bit.. Dec 07 19:53:55 time to walk the dog Dec 07 19:53:57 later SanMehat Dec 07 19:54:10 Any API way to change the camera shutter speed (which could then be corrected for by increasing brightness/contrast)? I see where it sends parameters to it (like jpeg-quality), but I don't see a list of available parameters. Dec 07 19:54:14 kirberich: damn now I feel totally fucked up :D... I mean I ordered one some weeks ago... damn !! Dec 07 19:54:16 It'll be really cool when the x86 support hits the public git Dec 07 19:54:32 kirberich: and now they sell it in my country... grrr.. Dec 07 19:54:38 Can't wait to get it on my Eee Dec 07 19:54:41 TiberiumX: there is still no api way to do anything with the camera :( Dec 07 19:54:42 that news just came one week too late Dec 07 19:54:44 Phlogi, it's reasonable easy to open the normal g1 so you can use it like a dev phone Dec 07 19:54:50 how come a google search on mobile will frequently return a empty page?? Dec 07 19:54:59 took a whole day for that hack to come out, too. Dec 07 19:55:09 osmosis, I have that problem too. Dec 07 19:55:10 ok i gotta go visit a friend in the hospital, be back tonight. Dec 07 19:55:12 just says... Settings Terms View Google in: Mobile | Class (c)2008 Google. Dec 07 19:55:13 Refresh gets around it. Dec 07 19:55:17 kirberich: actually it took a few weeks. timing was coincidence Dec 07 19:55:18 kirberich: thats true... BUT I payed the unlock fee :D and I had to order it via ebay and payed the shipping fee as well Dec 07 19:55:25 I also have a ton of issues with google reader on the G1. Dec 07 19:55:25 osmosis: how are you searching? Dec 07 19:55:28 Frequently errors out. Dec 07 19:55:34 the actual work was only a couple days, but dream_kill kept disappearing Dec 07 19:55:36 xsdg: from the search widget Dec 07 19:55:44 I suppose I should report these bugs, but I'm not sure whether they're on the G1 or the web services. Dec 07 19:55:55 i think he had the image extracted and in hand as early as thurs even :( Dec 07 19:55:57 I'd like a choice between quick/crappy and slow-ass/higher-quality. Dec 07 19:55:57 Disconnect, oh yeah right Dec 07 19:55:59 osmosis: on the desktop? hmm. how frequently does it happen? Dec 07 19:56:17 xsdg, Happens to me probably 50% of searches. Dec 07 19:56:19 is skype already availble for android? Dec 07 19:56:24 xsdg: often. id says 1 of 5. seems to be on the first search at any given time. Dec 07 19:56:42 xsdg: brocktice just said he gets the same bug. Dec 07 19:56:58 ok, I'll poke some folks Dec 07 19:56:58 xsdg: and rightly pointed out that refresh fixes it. Dec 07 19:57:06 Guess I should try the emulator too Dec 07 19:57:08 tmob web services are a disaster. it (no joke) inserted hardcore porn into my comics page the other week. (i kept seeing these frat-party-style dark pics of guys drinking and whatever in random sites, then suddenly WHAM. i don't think sinfest ever did -that- before...) Dec 07 19:57:16 osmosis, brocktice: can you privmsg me the email address that's associated with your device? Dec 07 19:57:25 osmosis: Same bug here. Dec 07 19:57:39 TiberiumX: can you privmsg me the email address that's associated with your device too? Dec 07 19:57:39 Yeah, just another click on search fixes it. Dec 07 19:57:48 xsdg: TiberiumX says the same. sounds pretty common. Dec 07 19:58:03 osmosis: you don't have to point out what other people are saying Dec 07 19:58:18 oh okay, wasnt sure if you saw it Dec 07 19:58:29 Wait I get that problem on my desktop searching the API docs. I misheard you. Dec 07 19:58:38 read* Dec 07 19:58:57 TiberiumX: so, searching on code.google.com? Dec 07 19:59:02 Yep Dec 07 19:59:12 Frequenty no search results until I do it again. Dec 07 19:59:20 Firefox 3.0.1 Dec 07 19:59:27 On Ubuntu Dec 07 19:59:49 TiberiumX: the "I" one? Dec 07 20:00:22 nm, gutsy Dec 07 20:00:34 nm again, hardy Dec 07 20:00:37 :o) Dec 07 20:00:40 Haha Dec 07 20:00:49 What is it with the people that complain that google freeloads on bandwidth? Dec 07 20:01:04 Like you guys aren't paying tons of money for your connections.... Dec 07 20:01:17 brocktice: it's a carefully-calculated lie Dec 07 20:01:21 (Just testing reader on the emulator, sorry it's a little OT) Dec 07 20:01:55 ATT is the source of the most recent round of that nonsense Dec 07 20:02:15 brocktice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality Dec 07 20:02:46 Disconnect, Yeah I'm familiar with it. Dec 07 20:02:53 It's just so mind-boggling. Dec 07 20:03:05 I guess it's not, if you consider motivations. Dec 07 20:03:06 http://www.reason.com/blog/show/114955.html Dec 07 20:03:39 I always liked the ask a ninja net neutrality thing. Dec 07 20:04:29 cool Dec 07 20:04:33 Disconnect: what page was it you were updating with fastboot info? Dec 07 20:04:41 infobot: fastboot Dec 07 20:04:42 fastboot is, like, a reflash protocol for android devices, or source code at http://tinyurl.com/57nusq, or cheatsheet at http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/8, or fast Dec 07 20:04:59 danke Dec 07 20:05:32 osmosis, brocktice: what build are you all running? Dec 07 20:05:43 RC30, not hacked. Dec 07 20:05:46 US T-mo. Dec 07 20:05:48 Disconnect: is the T-Mobile splash the same format as the initlogo.rle splash? Dec 07 20:05:52 ::nod:: Dec 07 20:06:04 xsdg: 116143 Dec 07 20:06:23 SplasPood: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/9 Dec 07 20:06:28 osmosis: what branch? Dec 07 20:06:40 osmosis: or, if you have an RC number, that'd be useful Dec 07 20:06:46 116143 here as well. Dec 07 20:06:57 can you find BioWallet in market? Dec 07 20:06:57 xsdg: 1.0 TC4-RC30 Dec 07 20:07:03 ok Dec 07 20:07:46 Disconnect: ye, looks to be the same Dec 07 20:08:01 xsdg, Just did a vanity search on the G1 and it happened again. Dec 07 20:08:10 ok seriously off now, ttyl! Dec 07 20:08:23 Went home screen -> search button -> typed name -> enter -> blank results Dec 07 20:08:53 brocktice: ok Dec 07 20:09:29 Can't get it to happen on the emulator, though. Dec 07 20:11:34 brocktice, osmosis: this only happens from the desktop widget? Dec 07 20:11:45 Let me try a few times from the browser directly Dec 07 20:11:52 But I think it's happened there. Dec 07 20:11:55 xsdg: i think so Dec 07 20:12:18 xsdg, Just happened from the browser Dec 07 20:12:20 Using the search button Dec 07 20:12:28 oh wait scratch that Dec 07 20:12:33 this time it eventually loaded Dec 07 20:17:51 can't get the browser search to do it. Dec 07 20:17:55 Tried a lot of searches. Dec 07 20:21:53 brocktice: ok; thanks Dec 07 20:21:54 I guess I've been out of things for a bit, but I've seen this fastboot, on the G1. Does anyone know if that works on root T-Mobile production devices? Dec 07 20:22:48 it does Dec 07 20:22:55 sweet, thanks Dec 07 20:27:04 can you find BioWallet in market? Dec 07 20:32:09 brocktice, osmosis: if you notice any big changes in behavior (for instance, it starts happening considerably more or less frequently, or the blank page looks different, or something), feel free to send me an email Dec 07 20:35:21 what is fastboot? Dec 07 20:35:27 !infobot fastboot Dec 07 20:35:32 grr Dec 07 20:35:36 infobot: fastboot? Dec 07 20:35:37 it has been said that fastboot is a reflash protocol for android devices, or source code at http://tinyurl.com/57nusq, or cheatsheet at http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/8, or fast Dec 07 20:35:52 oh Dec 07 20:35:55 thx Dec 07 20:36:05 np Dec 07 20:50:01 heh Dec 07 20:50:02 back Dec 07 20:56:57 so is there any dates for other US carriers release of android phones? Dec 07 21:10:05 astain: haven't heard of any yet Dec 07 21:16:32 where does android set the PATH from at bootup? Dec 07 21:20:34 so if you replace the dev firmware, recovery image, and use rc30 jf version-- does it matter if you have the phone unlocked before/after? Dec 07 21:20:45 ie, will an unlocked phone stay unlocked all the way through? Dec 07 21:24:02 PATH is set in /init.rc Dec 07 21:25:04 oh but when you reboot changes to init.rc are lost Dec 07 21:28:17 waldo: yes. unlocking the phone is completely independent of the android system on the phone Dec 07 21:30:36 jesus thanks :) Dec 07 21:31:06 btw JF-- I read that you were going to make a 1.3 image that removed some unnecessary debugging files... is this true? Dec 07 21:31:25 ie, should I wait before doing all this stuff? Dec 07 21:31:43 * waldo_ still has r29 Dec 07 21:34:11 yes. Dec 07 21:34:24 I will strip the binaries in xbin, to save some space Dec 07 21:34:31 (i.e. remove debugging symbols from them) Dec 07 21:34:50 cool... Dec 07 21:34:53 I'll wati for that... Dec 07 21:34:55 wait Dec 07 21:37:05 it will probably be in a week or 2 waldo Dec 07 21:39:02 JesusFreke: cool.. no hurry.. I'll do the new developer bootloader, modded recovery and firmware all at once. Dec 07 21:39:18 for the moment I can still enjoy rebooting by typing"reboot" :) Dec 07 21:40:54 lol Dec 07 21:49:39 ive decided to venture forward with allowing people to add items to their dgMoney on their phone via normal web browser! Dec 07 21:49:49 as my first google app engine project Dec 07 21:52:37 when you guys tested the slide mechanism on the G1...on average, what was the count before failure / breakage? Dec 07 21:53:01 That's really a question for HTC. Dec 07 21:53:07 never! i dont know if any google people could answer that though Dec 07 21:53:22 jbq: I remember someone in here saying "we tested it extensively" Dec 07 21:53:44 (shot in the dark) Dec 07 21:54:05 We've seen some failures on one set of pre-production devices, always the same kind (the ribbon cable that connects the screen to the body would come unglued on the screen side). Dec 07 21:55:31 As much as I realize that it's hard to realize from outside Google, the work on the G1 (as opposed to the work on Android itself) was conceptually done by a different team that reports to a different director. Dec 07 21:56:00 you mean a different team in google? Dec 07 21:56:08 Yes. Dec 07 21:56:11 or like a team from HTC/t-mob. Dec 07 21:56:14 ah, ok Dec 07 21:57:47 jbq: I have a small favor to ask, can you turn all of the google server's fans so they spin the world backwards and turn back time (I know it works, I saw it in a movie once), and then replace dalvik with a port of V8? Dec 07 21:58:36 There are people who focus more primarily on the platform itself, people who focus more on the Google-specific apps, people who focus more on the back-end servers for Android, and people who focus more on individual devices and partnerships one at a time. Dec 07 21:58:56 makes sense :) Dec 07 21:59:08 hmm, partnerships one at a time. interesting. Dec 07 21:59:45 Lenolium: do you really think that rewriting Android in ECMAscript and running it on x86 would be such a good idea? Dec 07 21:59:47 lenolium, you would actually rather write javascript apps, than java apps? lol Dec 07 22:00:52 JesusFreke: We discovered this AM that since http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root_UK is much sparser than http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root people were getting confused lost when working on the UK devices... Do you have any objections to me combining the two documents? Dec 07 22:00:53 jbq: Well, V8 would obviously have to be ported to ARM, and since it spits out machine code, it would give the current java runtime a run for it's money. Dec 07 22:01:05 unix_infidel: that doesn't mean that that entire team works on the same partnership at the same time. But you might have someone e.g. preparing the configuration for the DevPhone whole someone else tweaks the camera driver for the G, etc... Dec 07 22:01:26 bgupta, no probs here Dec 07 22:01:40 JesusFreke: Yeah, I'm less and less of a Java fan the more I write in it, it's so verbose I feel like I am studdering. Probably just because I'm a crazy lisp guy. Dec 07 22:02:01 s/G/G1/ Dec 07 22:02:01 jbq meant: unix_infidel: that doesn't mean that that entire team works on the same partnership at the same time. But you might have someone e.g. preparing the configuration for the DevPhone whole someone else tweaks the camera driver for the G1, etc... Dec 07 22:02:07 well, I'm not a huge fan of java. But I would rather use Java than JavaScript :) Dec 07 22:02:34 hello Dec 07 22:02:42 although TBH, I haven't done much "real" work with javascript either Dec 07 22:02:45 Lenolium: So what do you think of Clojure? Dec 07 22:02:47 just the occassional webpage script Dec 07 22:02:57 JesusFreke: Eh, a proper ecmascript running outside of a browser (with real object support, including inheritance) is actually fairly nice. Dec 07 22:03:07 Once you start to look at multithreaded javascript you get into a world of pain... Dec 07 22:03:26 may I ask something about fastboot? Dec 07 22:03:29 back Dec 07 22:03:36 go for chanwitk :) Dec 07 22:03:43 go ahead Dec 07 22:03:44 bgupta: I have not tried it yet, but were it to be ported to dalvik, I'd be very happy. Dec 07 22:04:02 I'll bet you would be. :) Dec 07 22:04:12 chanwitk: whats the question? Dec 07 22:04:22 i'm turning on and the phone said serial0 Dec 07 22:04:39 i do not know how to establish fastboot connection. Dec 07 22:04:40 you're turning it on with the back button held? Dec 07 22:04:45 plug in usb and press the back button Dec 07 22:04:47 is it plugged into USB? Dec 07 22:04:47 hit back Dec 07 22:04:49 I like how ECMAscript has so few types. Like, 6 or 7, and you can't add your own. Dec 07 22:05:21 chanwitk: is your device a Retail T-Mobile G1? If it is then your bootloader does not support fastboot. Dec 07 22:05:22 i see Dec 07 22:05:57 SanMehat: I patched already Dec 07 22:06:19 thanks all :-) Dec 07 22:06:31 got it working? Dec 07 22:06:43 chanwitk: i dont know what you're referring to, but if it doesnt say 'fastboot' when you're plugged into USB then the bootloader you have doesnt support fastboot :) Dec 07 22:08:03 SanMehat: I see the sketchboard, and it displays serial0. I have to try hitting back like you guys suggest first. Dec 07 22:08:15 am I understanding this correctly? Dec 07 22:08:25 yeah. just plug in the usb cord, and press back Dec 07 22:08:31 plug in usb Dec 07 22:08:35 the serial0 should switch to fastboot Dec 07 22:08:46 if 'serial0' does not change to 'fastboot', then your bootloader is locked. Dec 07 22:09:03 thanks again JesusFreke Dec 07 22:09:06 i see Dec 07 22:09:10 sketchboard? you mean skateboard? :) Dec 07 22:09:16 lol Dec 07 22:09:18 JesusFreke: Does this now make sense for UK users as well: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Dec 07 22:09:26 right, my bad english. lol Dec 07 22:09:43 but yeah, that's almost definitely the right bootloader then Dec 07 22:09:54 i think so Dec 07 22:09:56 no Dec 07 22:10:01 even the production bootloaders have that Dec 07 22:10:11 if you boot them and hold back you get the colorbars Dec 07 22:10:14 production bootloaders don't have a skateboard Dec 07 22:10:28 the 3 skateboarding androids at the bottom.. Dec 07 22:10:33 right Dec 07 22:10:37 ahhh Dec 07 22:10:44 i dont know what the skateboard is Dec 07 22:11:04 it's 170k bootloader patch Dec 07 22:11:08 i think i got the correct one Dec 07 22:11:14 ah ok. Dec 07 22:11:17 san: Dec 07 22:11:17 http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Dec 07 22:11:19 well yer on your own then :) Dec 07 22:11:39 yup :) Dec 07 22:12:10 so i have to go offline to try. i'm using the phone for tethering, lol Dec 07 22:12:37 cool Dec 07 22:12:51 bbl Dec 07 22:12:53 will pop in to tell the result later Dec 07 22:13:09 see you :-) Dec 07 22:14:26 what does your article title mean? Dec 07 22:14:28 haha Dec 07 22:14:43 cool :) Dec 07 22:17:18 Hey any0one know if the factory UK shipping version is called rc7? Dec 07 22:18:21 JesusFreke? Dec 07 22:21:38 anyone know the physical difference between the g1 and the g1 developers edition, other than the painted backplate? Dec 07 22:22:02 marix, developer bootloader, unlocked GSM modem. Dec 07 22:22:25 yep Dec 07 22:22:34 you can put any rom ... have root, etc Dec 07 22:22:35 The dev phone has a slighly different shade of black (!) Dec 07 22:22:40 orospakr, any chance we can get that boot loader installed on a regular Dec 07 22:22:54 no idea. I think someone was working on it. Dec 07 22:22:57 marix, clearly it's possible... it's just a question of getting there. Dec 07 22:22:58 (and different markings, no T-Mobile logo, etc...) Dec 07 22:23:13 jbq, that's a different logo.rle? Dec 07 22:23:37 jbq, does it get OTA updates like the regular T-Mobile G1? or is it manual using testkeys? Dec 07 22:23:41 Most probably. I haven't actually seen a production dev phone. Dec 07 22:24:17 but instead of getting T-Mobile's roms you get developer images Dec 07 22:24:26 ota updates are pushed out by the carrier i believe Dec 07 22:24:51 hi again Dec 07 22:25:00 ota's are signed by the carrier, but they are downloaded from google Dec 07 22:25:06 Damm: I think that the question of OTA updates is still an open questions. Obviously some developers (purely application developers) might prefer auto-updates, whereas others (the ones more likely to flash the phone on their own) probably want to have more control over what goes on. Dec 07 22:25:22 i got fastboot on already. Dec 07 22:25:37 Dang, I can't find a support number/email for brightstar anywhere. It doesn't seem to be listed on the site (my order still appears to be missing). Dec 07 22:25:42 jbq, well put. Dec 07 22:25:55 but seems it's not working with Linux in VMware (with Windows host). Dec 07 22:35:47 whats the name of that 3d earth app? Dec 07 22:35:57 google earth Dec 07 22:36:58 tomh: hmm can't find anything with earch Dec 07 22:37:27 *earth Dec 07 22:37:29 I haven't heard of google earth for android being released. Dec 07 22:37:35 despite there being an iphone version already. Dec 07 22:37:46 I find that a bit weird. Dec 07 22:38:04 whats a good editor? Dec 07 22:38:14 ahh, found one: android@brightstar.com Dec 07 22:38:24 I just saw an earth thing on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbnrgeBIQeo Dec 07 22:38:31 er Dec 07 22:38:36 android@brightstarcorp.com Dec 07 22:39:36 any other cool 3d app? Dec 07 22:39:59 phlogi, is that a g1 with a lighted trackball? Dec 07 22:40:31 nope Dec 07 22:40:41 marix: its the chinese phone Dec 07 22:40:54 oh Dec 07 22:41:00 Phlogi, which phone is that? Dec 07 22:41:43 I'm a bit surprised more manufacturers haven't looked to make Android phones... Dec 07 22:41:57 i6 something from china Dec 07 22:42:08 GiantTalkingCow: hu? There are some :) Dec 07 22:42:19 which other manufacturers will come with android phones? Dec 07 22:42:29 http://www.talkandroid.com/435-qigi-i6-android-smartphone/ Dec 07 22:42:30 now only htc and that aussie one right? Dec 07 22:42:37 not sure Dec 07 22:42:41 Not too many at the moment, which given the appeal of the platform over WinMo is a bit of a surprise. Dec 07 22:43:17 ye Dec 07 22:43:20 The majority of the stuff is coming out in China, and I'm not sure it'll ever make it over here. Dec 07 22:43:37 what's about zzzPhone? Dec 07 22:43:40 well thats good news in a way that the chinese pick android Dec 07 22:44:03 if they build 500 milion smartphones with android we will have a large userbase for the apps :> Dec 07 22:44:07 For them it is... I'd like a choice when it comes to a phone OS too, you know. Dec 07 22:45:40 is there an ssh console clinet for th ephone? Dec 07 22:45:46 On the other hand, this http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10116531-1.html is good news. I hate vendor lock-in. Dec 07 22:45:49 tomh: just be patient... Dec 07 22:46:05 is there a way to get tethering to work on my g1, after the last OS update ? Dec 07 22:46:15 teratoma: which was the last update? Dec 07 22:46:16 phlogi: patience didn't bring linux to the mainstream either.. Dec 07 22:46:35 Phlogi: my phone OS updated on my g1 magically I think 8 days ago Dec 07 22:47:18 What I'd really like to see is a port of Android to the iPhone. Not just for the "oooh neat" factor, but for the expected hilarious reaction from Apple cultists. Dec 07 22:47:51 teratoma: i think you can use tetherbot thru USB Dec 07 22:48:15 chanwitk: that's what people on the internet say. i think they lie Dec 07 22:48:54 teratoma: i've been trying it. it's working fine for browsing Dec 07 22:49:24 teratoma: quite high speed, but not stable for IMs Dec 07 22:49:32 chanwitk: http://graha.ms/androidproxy/Tetherbot.apk wont install on my g1 Dec 07 22:49:57 teratoma: you have to enable something first Dec 07 22:50:13 teratoma: what version please? Dec 07 22:50:14 teratoma: to allow installing apps outside the market Dec 07 22:50:19 Phlogi: how do i find out ? Dec 07 22:50:21 tomh: it did but not on all sectors :p Dec 07 22:50:23 chanwitk: i did that Dec 07 22:50:36 teratoma: settings->about phone Dec 07 22:50:46 build number Dec 07 22:50:55 teratoma: hmm, strange. Dec 07 22:51:15 tomh: anyway linux does not need be on mainstream to be better.. it doesn't just matter Dec 07 22:51:52 teratoma: another way is to install it with adb. Dec 07 22:52:36 Phlogi: kila-user 1.0 TC4-RC30 116143 ota-rel-keys,release-keys Dec 07 22:52:43 ok Dec 07 22:52:47 ye true Dec 07 22:53:00 so anyone knows if the dev phone has gps or? Dec 07 22:53:26 I expect the dev phone is exactly the same hardware as the G1, only with an unlocked bootloader. Dec 07 22:53:37 ok Dec 07 22:53:38 tomh, we havn't seen official specs but i cant see why it would be missing Dec 07 22:53:52 well its not listed in the store as feature Dec 07 22:54:48 tomh, it does have gps Dec 07 22:55:00 Phlogi: what kind of ssh client are you looking for? Dec 07 22:55:10 brocktice: you mailed them or? Dec 07 22:55:19 tomh, one of the google guys here confirmed it Dec 07 22:55:29 ok cool Dec 07 22:55:30 sparkle: just to get normal shell... so I can login on remote machines Dec 07 22:55:35 i might order it then :) Dec 07 22:55:41 Phlogi: have you tried ConnectBot? Dec 07 22:55:51 benley: nope... let me check it out Dec 07 22:55:51 Phlogi: i'm using ConnectBot Dec 07 22:55:51 Same device different bootloader Dec 07 22:55:55 i would rather get an iphone but, i dont like the tmobile tax :/ Dec 07 22:55:59 ConnectBot is pretty good. Dec 07 22:56:06 * sparkle nods Dec 07 22:56:09 indeed, connectbot has gotten good Dec 07 22:56:11 it's super cool Dec 07 22:56:28 chanwitk: I can't find that on the market : Dec 07 22:57:06 Phlogi: search for ssh Dec 07 22:57:25 chanwitk: just tried: no results :S Dec 07 22:57:36 or capital Connect (capital c)? Dec 07 22:57:42 already too Dec 07 22:57:44 hmm Dec 07 22:57:45 no luck... Dec 07 22:57:45 :\ Dec 07 22:57:52 kinda strange... Dec 07 22:57:52 just browse to http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/ and download the apk Dec 07 22:58:01 the version there is later and fixes bugs Dec 07 22:58:03 is it too new.... Dec 07 22:58:05 mm are the individual apps like mail etc available in source (java) form? Dec 07 22:58:20 do you find BioWallet? Dec 07 22:58:21 and lets you do stuff like disable the notification bar to get more room, etc Dec 07 22:58:36 it's able to fix like 80x22 on screen. Dec 07 22:58:49 anyone know some working SIP clients? Dec 07 22:59:17 would you use an svn snapshot? Dec 07 23:00:56 http://androidapplications.com/apps/detail/biowallet Dec 07 23:02:08 i thought biowallet didn't exist Dec 07 23:02:20 or rather, was a work in progress Dec 07 23:02:49 whats the best editor? Dec 07 23:02:54 how do i remove widgets from the home screen? Dec 07 23:02:59 marix: ah ok.. what a strange website is that then? Dec 07 23:03:07 tomh: drag them to bottom Dec 07 23:03:12 tomh, push and hold on it then drag it to the tab Dec 07 23:03:25 ok thanks Dec 07 23:03:51 phlogi, it was part of the android app compitition Dec 07 23:05:04 that site is probably ages old Dec 07 23:05:08 I'd like to get a phone I an put android on, but want to stay with AT&T. Where can I find information on which phones are compatible? Dec 07 23:05:23 the dev phone Dec 07 23:06:02 asa_A for 3g data, no phones are currently capable on the att network Dec 07 23:06:17 marix: three is no site where I can browse the apps online? Dec 07 23:06:47 asa_A for edge speed the dev phone would be your best bet Dec 07 23:07:23 asa_A or if you wanna try something silly you could buy and open moko for gsm data speeds on a totally open platorm (really not worth it till an onscreen keyboard is setup) Dec 07 23:07:43 phlogi, no way to view apps from the appstore w/ out the phone Dec 07 23:07:57 www.androidapps.com is good for reviews and vids Dec 07 23:08:02 where can I get info on the dev phone? Dec 07 23:08:18 so how do i plug my g1 in to charge AND connect my g1 to my computer via the usb port at the same time Dec 07 23:08:21 mm how is the UI responsiveness of the iphone vs g1 Dec 07 23:09:07 teratoma: Is your USB port unpowered? Because I charge my G1 by plugging it into my desktop. :P Dec 07 23:09:15 asa_A https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=androiddeveloper&passive=true&nui=1&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fmarket.android.com%2Fpublish&followup=http%3A%2F%2Fmarket.android.com%2Fpublish Dec 07 23:09:59 teratoma, just plug in into your computer Dec 07 23:10:24 i take back all the mean things i said about the g1. i got it to give my laptop internet access Dec 07 23:12:34 * sparkle chuckles Dec 07 23:13:39 maqr: ok Dec 07 23:13:55 marix: thanks for the link Dec 07 23:13:56 gn8 Dec 07 23:14:18 is taht all it took taratoma? Dec 07 23:15:52 marix: to give my laptop internet access through the g1 i followed instructions at http://graha.ms/androidproxy/ Dec 07 23:16:43 no i mean is that all it took for you to talk back all the mean things Dec 07 23:17:10 i wish the battery lasted a little longer Dec 07 23:17:18 bluetooth and wifi tethering should be coming to the next modified os update. Dec 07 23:20:56 yeah now i need magical tethering from the g1 to my laptop via bluetooth Dec 07 23:21:25 bluetooth tethering is stupid Dec 07 23:21:28 don't do it Dec 07 23:21:40 your stupid! Dec 07 23:22:05 1) drains phone battery Dec 07 23:22:14 2) up to 50% slower than USB tethering Dec 07 23:22:42 how do you figure it being 50% slower? Dec 07 23:22:46 on Sprints 3G I'd get 2mb/s USB tethering, 700-900 kb/s bluetooth tethering. Dec 07 23:22:48 USB tethering = socks? Dec 07 23:22:49 correct? Dec 07 23:23:15 yes Dec 07 23:23:17 when one of your home ISP goes down and you are noticing that's another backup on not working bcos of payment, and you can't use your internet banking becos web-master-idiot made bank site IE only.... Then Tethering is all you have to get internet and make the payment. Dec 07 23:23:20 Gary|tp, are you doing Bluetooth PAN or Modem? Dec 07 23:23:28 damm: so far - though with the kernel update to 2.6.27, the new usb framework should support network card emulation over usb Dec 07 23:23:37 Bluetooth modem will always be slower then BT pan. Dec 07 23:23:54 sparkle, nice. question is will end-users see this? or just hackers? Dec 07 23:23:55 i will never be sad waiting for a plane again Dec 07 23:24:20 end users will see it once tether support makes it into the official build, most likely Dec 07 23:24:23 I know T-Mobile's tethering policy's are a joke now. Dec 07 23:24:23 * sparkle shrugs Dec 07 23:24:38 t-mobile as far as i know has no real unified tethering policy Dec 07 23:24:44 damm, as gfar as i know they don't have one Dec 07 23:24:48 they used to support it no matter what. Dec 07 23:24:52 lol yea Dec 07 23:24:53 * sparkle nods Dec 07 23:25:00 but they've been disabling tethering on certain handsets Dec 07 23:25:01 guys any of you have "real tethering" tru bluetooth successfully running? Dec 07 23:25:05 it's true that bluetooth PAN is slow Dec 07 23:25:07 (namely 3g handsets) Dec 07 23:25:11 well Dec 07 23:25:24 hmepas_2: i'm using Dec 07 23:25:29 T-Mobile's excuse is tethering on certain 3G phones is crashing them. Dec 07 23:25:30 how many handsets have shipped supporting tmobile 3g so far? Dec 07 23:25:36 sparkle, about 5-10 Dec 07 23:25:38 i'm trying to think... Dec 07 23:25:56 mostly cheap pieces of crap that don't have bluetooth Dec 07 23:26:01 Bluetooth PAN is slow but far stable than Tetherbot. Dec 07 23:26:05 T-Mobile shoves a new Samsung out every month. Dec 07 23:26:14 * maqr looks in Dec 07 23:26:22 or it feels that way. Dec 07 23:27:57 chanwitk: i seems to setup everything right, but i am havein 0 recieved packets on PC. While on phone i have recieved packets and tramsmited and recieved on phone exactly equal to transmited from pc. so connection worked but one way. any idea? Bcos i am quite new to all that bluetooth stuff. Dec 07 23:28:50 hmepas_2: try ifconfig down, then up again Dec 07 23:28:59 btw, guys, you having vibrating on your phone when it's booting, right? Dec 07 23:29:07 chanwitk: hmm. will do. Dec 07 23:29:58 hmepas_2, yes it vibrates on bootup Dec 07 23:30:45 i wish we all did Dec 07 23:46:51 i am asking about vibrating because of some problem i had. Sometimes my phone became really laggy and start to answer by vibrating on pressing buttons like "Menu", Home, Power, Back. It could be solved via rebooting. I am also seeing "binder" error messages in dmesg. Any one somehow noticed that problem? Dec 07 23:47:12 Can someone please review my edits to "Keeping root"? I attempted to update it to include UK instructions in the same doc. http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Dec 07 23:47:19 sometimes it's even impossible to unlock it bcos of that, it's just vibrating on each menu button pressing and doing nothing. Dec 07 23:49:44 hmepas_2: I haven't seen the code, but I guess that the second vibra is for 'buzz' (as in PC 'beep' from pc speaker). That would suggest that keyboard/input buffer is full and noone cares to clean it Dec 07 23:51:02 hmepas_2: is the handset under heavy load? Dec 07 23:51:41 wpk: any idea how it's could be sticked to the binder? that's android IPC kernel sub-system. Dec 07 23:52:08 sparkle: nope. just random situation. Once it's started even when phone was on "unlock sim" screen. so just after loading. Dec 07 23:52:33 hmepas_2: could you connect to phone through adb shell and see if ps is showing something odd? Dec 07 23:52:35 my goal is to investigate is that hardware problem or it's probably caused by modified RC30. Dec 07 23:53:17 wpk: right now i am not having that problem didn't meet it today... dunno why. Dec 07 23:54:33 wpk: as far as i noticed nothing odd was in ipc.. like zombie treads or something. Dec 07 23:54:46 wpk: will try to have more deep look next time. Dec 07 23:55:23 btw, has anyone tried disassembling HTC bootloader? Dec 07 23:55:55 wpk: me is too dump for that. Dec 07 23:56:23 but i think guys who selling unlock codes should know something about that hehe =) Dec 07 23:57:16 hmepas_2: well, I feel fucked in the ass (deeply) by Google Dec 07 23:57:36 wpk: you got already RC30 phone? Dec 07 23:57:39 hmepas_2: have I known there would be dev phone, I'd never buy T-Mobile Dec 07 23:57:42 hmepas_2: yp :| Dec 07 23:57:49 wpk: sorry pal. Dec 07 23:58:08 actually same here, but i was lucky enouth to get in RC19. Dec 07 23:58:28 hmepas_2: I had RC19. But i was dumb enough to upgrade to rc30 :| Dec 07 23:58:51 wpk: i am pretty sure however they will let ppl to switch their t-mobile to dev. The time is only question.. Dec 07 23:59:38 actually russian sucky GRPS network saved my ass =) Phone just would be able to get update fast hehe Dec 08 00:00:11 so when i get home and go to forum i noticed what i should not update so i reflushed asap =) Dec 08 00:04:49 lol. bluetooth subsystem in windows is something which have no rights to live.... have to reboot. Dec 08 00:06:14 hmepas_2: well, here in .pl EDGE is everywhere, and UMTS in where most ppl live... Dec 08 00:08:51 be careful about your data usage Dec 08 00:08:57 the G1 pings google alot Dec 08 00:09:06 (some people have reported some pretty decent bills roaming) Dec 08 00:10:29 be nice if there were some UI that gave you an idea of your resource consumption: data traffic, battery use Dec 08 00:10:33 SD use Dec 08 00:10:43 there is a program that will track network usages Dec 08 00:10:51 netcounter Dec 08 00:11:03 oho! Dec 08 00:11:15 Damm: at home I have wifi, and I have limited data plan Dec 08 00:11:37 hmepas_2: well, here in .pl EDGE is everywhere, and UMTS in where most ppl live... Dec 08 00:12:02 btw, I have one idea how to break RC30 Dec 08 00:12:14 re all Dec 08 00:12:21 according to code, updates are not unpacked as whole Dec 08 00:12:22 re Dec 08 00:12:26 so Dec 08 00:12:33 using SD card emulator Dec 08 00:12:49 we can get the update verified, and then replace it with 'proper' update Dec 08 00:13:37 don't know if android can read MMC cards tho, if so - it should be pretty easy Dec 08 00:13:39 wpk: you have few options. Wait for the next security leak with root-posability, wait for google will announce official update to dev version, or just wait for someone to start hacking this device on hardware base, like taking rom from it and reflushing on programator. Dec 08 00:13:51 thats been discussed. and some other weaknesses in the code. but first, how many people have an sd card emulator? (esp one that works on microsd in acttual hardware - with the door closed, remember) and second, it needs to match size and crc.. Dec 08 00:14:30 actually.. even worse. the thing doesn't unpack the files to sd and then flash. it works with the zip in memory. so.. Dec 08 00:15:51 Disconnect: sd card emulator - no, mmc card emulator is pretty easy to do. And 'door closed' eq. easy visible microswitch pushed (just checked) Dec 08 00:16:03 Disconnect: not in memory Dec 08 00:16:10 Disconnect: on SD card. Dec 08 00:16:19 reread the update code Dec 08 00:16:34 Disconnect: AFAIR it mmaps the file Dec 08 00:16:41 Disconnect: but I might be wrong Dec 08 00:17:20 the system cache holds most of it. so its not a clean swap just because the on-disk changed. Dec 08 00:17:51 Disconnect: it's a matter of luck. If you'll modify last file in ZIP, you'll probably get lucky Dec 08 00:18:33 (verification process loads the manifest & signature, then passes through manifest checking SHA1 sums, then unpacks files) Dec 08 00:19:53 it has to unpack the file to calculate the SHA1 of the file Dec 08 00:19:56 right? Dec 08 00:20:00 JesusFreke: yes Dec 08 00:21:35 JesusFreke: but it does verification first, then unpacks it Dec 08 00:21:55 i mean, it unpacks every file twice Dec 08 00:22:12 1st time for verification, 2nd for real update Dec 08 00:22:21 ah, ok Dec 08 00:22:31 that may work then Dec 08 00:22:38 btw anybody did some research about making possible to switch keyboard to different languages? Should be pretty easy on linux with UTF support already. Gona even start to do this myself any points to good guides about "localization" linux on mobile devices? Dec 08 00:22:40 JesusFreke: and if G1 accepts MMC cards, then it should be pretty easy Dec 08 00:23:00 I'm pretty sure you can't stuff an mmc card in that small of a slot :D Dec 08 00:23:13 JesusFreke: I'm not talking about MMC card but about MMC protocol Dec 08 00:23:30 JesusFreke: SD protocol is propertiary and costs gazillions$ Dec 08 00:23:30 ah, that makes a bit more sense :) Dec 08 00:23:42 i -believe- the protocols for microsd and standard are identical, which would mean (technically) you can use an mmc card (if it fit, etc ) Dec 08 00:23:46 who all tried the dev firmware? Dec 08 00:23:49 how is it? Dec 08 00:23:58 ..dev firmware? Dec 08 00:24:05 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=455860 Dec 08 00:24:17 Disconnect: I'm sure of that, but I've seen even USB readers that accept SD but don't accept MMC cards Dec 08 00:24:27 ok that post is so full of stupid its not even funny. Dec 08 00:24:35 infobot: devphone Dec 08 00:24:40 lol :) Dec 08 00:24:47 damnit Dec 08 00:24:50 infobot: devphones Dec 08 00:24:51 methinks devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2, or ... Dec 08 00:25:17 ..grr. anyway. http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 is the post with correct info Dec 08 00:25:46 its nothing to do with the dev phone. its not a new firmware image (its a bootloader. think grub or lilo.) so it has absolutely zero impact on the behavior or appearance of the phone. Dec 08 00:25:55 JesusFreke: if I'll find spare time (and will see no hope for RC30 hack) I'll try to cook something up Dec 08 00:26:09 JesusFreke: at first, trying to connect MMC card to G1 :) Dec 08 00:26:17 with 4 pins connected Dec 08 00:27:37 cool :) Dec 08 00:27:54 (I'm still praying for RC30 hack :P) Dec 08 00:28:14 another 'plausible way' is to find serio pins on mboard Dec 08 00:29:05 and try to talk to bootloader directly Dec 08 00:29:43 or extract the flash chip and reflash :p Dec 08 00:31:54 JesusFreke: 'serio pins'-way doesn't require soldering :) Dec 08 00:34:19 i just want to be able type russian on this amazing keyboard lol. Dec 08 00:36:10 hmepas_2: i want to be able to see .pl chars in connectbot :) Dec 08 00:36:53 wpk: i didn't tried but aint that working? Dec 08 00:37:01 hmepas_2: nope Dec 08 00:37:08 hmepas_2: no UTF-8, no ISO8859-2 Dec 08 00:38:12 wpk: dammit.... how all those ppl a manage to write non-utf application on a complete utf-support system? Dec 08 00:38:26 can't believe all those developers are from UK/US. Dec 08 00:39:04 Do those same characters show up in other apps? Dec 08 00:39:15 hmepas_2: I'm using ISO8859-2 since it just shows me strange chars instead of proper, doesn't break eg. ncurses Dec 08 00:39:39 jbq_: yes, e-mail Dec 08 00:40:04 wpk: OK, so the issue is with the app (I was wondering whether they were in the system font). Dec 08 00:40:14 jbq_: can't input them, but in received e-mails I can see .pl chars Dec 08 00:40:51 haven't tried cyrillic tho :) Dec 08 00:41:00 * ivantis is very excited :D Dec 08 00:41:13 my mom says shes getting me a G1 on wednesday Dec 08 00:41:30 * wpk is getting his paycheck on wednesday Dec 08 00:41:40 maybe this time it'll be dev-phone :P Dec 08 00:42:06 dev-phone? there are special ones for developers? Dec 08 00:42:11 * sparkle nods Dec 08 00:42:19 WoT? Dec 08 00:42:25 im a C++ developer Dec 08 00:42:38 do i need a special dev-phone to write apps for it? Dec 08 00:42:55 ivantis: apps are in java. dev phone is for devloping for the OS Dec 08 00:43:12 oh Dec 08 00:43:14 you only need it if you are working on the OS, not if you are writing normal apps Dec 08 00:43:19 i prolly wont do work on the OS Dec 08 00:43:36 well there ya go then Dec 08 00:43:47 wut color should i get? Dec 08 00:43:55 ivantis: pink Dec 08 00:44:16 i still want purple/black camo :p Dec 08 00:46:17 ivantis: one other thing is that being able to push your own firmware turns it effectively into a very versatile general use linux palmtop Dec 08 00:46:19 nah... puttin ifconfig down and up again not helping. same pictures. 0 packet recieved on PC on bluethooth nic.dammit i hate bluetooth protocol. Dec 08 00:46:54 when running adb to connect to a stock rc30 g1, what user do you connect as? Dec 08 00:47:01 hitman: shell Dec 08 00:47:17 why windows have no tcpdump.... why android have no tcpdump... Dec 08 00:47:17 can I connect as that user after JF's mod Dec 08 00:47:32 hmepas_2: use linux :) Dec 08 00:47:49 hmepas_2: tcpdump, hcidump, whatever you want :) Dec 08 00:47:52 wpk: i have linux on android, still no tcpdump u see =) Dec 08 00:48:02 hmepas_2: use linux on your PC :) Dec 08 00:48:21 wpk: i am really scared of trying to buildup bluetooth on linux. but seems like i have no choice. Dec 08 00:48:22 the thing is, there are some scary things I find in the filesystem without any authentication after I've modded even with the screen locked and I was to see if I can still see these scary things on the stock verion Dec 08 00:49:02 hitman: which things you talking about? Dec 08 00:49:11 hitman: if it's about xbin system then answer is no. Dec 08 00:49:30 data/data/ Dec 08 00:49:54 hitman: about your initial answer you probably will be able to switch to "shell" user via 'su' command on modified firmware. Dec 08 00:49:57 hi all Dec 08 00:50:02 hmepas_2: ok Dec 08 00:50:04 hitman: just check rights. Dec 08 00:50:14 question, how do I get rid of the downloaded icon(s) in my status bar? Dec 08 00:50:43 hmepas_2: yea ok now I feel a bit better Dec 08 00:50:54 Every addon I installed, there is a new "downloaded" icon for it in my status bar. Dec 08 00:51:05 How do I make them dissappear? Dec 08 00:51:13 clear notifications button Dec 08 00:51:21 hmepas_2: is there a way to not allow people connecting via adb to have root? Dec 08 00:51:26 drag the top bar down, the button is on the top right Dec 08 00:51:56 updated the fastboot cheat sheet Dec 08 00:52:11 hitman: afaik no. but there is a way to not allow ppl to connect via adb. Dec 08 00:52:22 alright thanks acidulous :) Dec 08 00:52:26 np Dec 08 00:52:30 ah ok, that's just turning off the usb debugging option Dec 08 00:52:31 I will try that in a few hours :) Dec 08 00:52:33 hitman: for me connecting without root via adb is pretty worthless. Dec 08 00:52:35 didn't think of that Dec 08 00:53:02 yea I gotta remember to disable that junk Dec 08 00:53:05 hitman: if you don't want ppl connecting to phone with adb just turn off USB debuggin in 'settings->applications->development' Dec 08 00:53:10 yeap Dec 08 00:53:40 hitman: but... still.. it's only thru usb. you are really scary someone will run after you with laptop and extUSB cable? ^_^ Dec 08 00:53:48 no if I lose the phone Dec 08 00:53:56 all my sekrutz Dec 08 00:54:15 plus I think you can just disble the keylock via the console as well Dec 08 00:54:34 er screen lock whatever Dec 08 00:54:37 hitman: if you loose the phone with modified RC30 it will be easy to get your securz anyway =) Dec 08 00:54:52 hitman: without rc30 i think it could be secure =) Dec 08 00:55:04 oh junk yea Dec 08 00:55:08 i mean native rc30. Dec 08 00:55:28 but no root.... for the next year or soo this system is worthless wihtou having root on it. Dec 08 00:55:46 ya Dec 08 00:56:12 concerned about security tho Dec 08 00:56:20 hmm Dec 08 00:56:30 but also want to hax os Dec 08 00:56:45 maybe will glue to palm Dec 08 00:56:46 back. Dec 08 00:57:29 lol @ mail passwords base64 encoded in the AndroidMail.Main.xml Dec 08 00:58:04 hitman: good idea =) I am still using my TT3. Bcos it have more usefull program to hold passwords (keyring), a lot of software to read books which is usefull and playing video of all formats. Consider to it all those iPhones and Androids is a piece of shit .=) Dec 08 00:58:20 but android have a chance to became great in future. Dec 08 00:58:25 can't say this about iphone. Dec 08 00:58:31 iphone = shite Dec 08 00:58:38 100% sure Dec 08 00:58:47 they'll have android running on the iphone soon Dec 08 00:58:52 ah, always love the high level of discussion in here Dec 08 00:58:54 ....riiight Dec 08 00:59:12 Acidulous: you know that all they have is a kernel right? no framebuffer, no wireless, no touchscreen. Dec 08 00:59:23 no gsm, no gps.. no audio.. Dec 08 00:59:24 Yea I know Dec 08 00:59:24 Acidulous: thats good for us so we will finaly get onscreen keyboard! =) Dec 08 01:00:54 had to get iphone for the test form work for a week. returned it back after evening. i like macintosh.. but installing itunes to put music on player... thank no. Dec 08 01:05:26 hi Dec 08 01:05:44 btw, anyone found any good app for reading books on android? I tried few all suxx. Dec 08 01:05:49 jbq_: still awake? :) Dec 08 01:06:05 noone a reading fb2 beside fbreaderj which is bugy. Dec 08 01:07:47 what should my package names be? Dec 08 01:07:54 like google's is com.google.* Dec 08 01:08:11 us.space-lab.*? Dec 08 01:08:14 that is my domain Dec 08 01:14:02 anybody know which version of os is on developer phone? Same locked rc30? Or some modification? Dec 08 01:14:20 Or they steal modified on from xda-developers forums? =))) Dec 08 01:15:10 hmepas_2: it's a slightly different version (a little bit newer). Dec 08 01:15:13 hmepas_2: its gonna be a google build, probably roughly equiv to whats in the public tree and/or rc30 Dec 08 01:15:22 or let jbq answer more definitively :) Dec 08 01:15:57 we need our modifed is became based on google one then =) Dec 08 01:16:02 uh wth Dec 08 01:16:07 how do I get out of the HTC bootloader Dec 08 01:16:17 jbq_: before i write this up for the list (tomorrow prolly) but why not do a cache daemon to manage /cache (memcache style, although simplified..) Dec 08 01:16:26 Gary|tp: pull battery Dec 08 01:16:33 seriously? Dec 08 01:16:43 or "fastboot reboot" if you have fastboot bootloader (skateboards) Dec 08 01:16:59 * Disconnect still loves the skateboards pic. cute.. Dec 08 01:17:08 i just pulled battery. Dec 08 01:17:13 yeah, I just installed that bootloader. Dec 08 01:17:16 yea looks funny. Dec 08 01:17:18 How do I issue it commands? Dec 08 01:17:59 nei1 dumped developer os from dev phone yet? Dec 08 01:18:18 Disconnect: I'm not aware of memcache. The cache management part of the download manager is a plain LRU, which has proven to work "just fine" for now, though other options are worth considering. Dec 08 01:20:31 jbq_: memcache was an example, its just a super-simple text-or-binary distributed object cache. in general tho, i'm just thinking a straight /cache/app/key/data1...datan layout that was managed by a specific cache daemon (which could be told "expire 10 megs" or 'expire everything') Dec 08 01:21:43 and an app can say "give me key/data5" and get back "expired: {age} {data}" "expires: {age} {data}" or "purged: {when} {null}". sounds like i should write it up. Dec 08 01:22:43 i'll write it up at halftime prolly :) Dec 08 01:22:50 Ack, I need to compile fastboot myself? Too lazy to get it working myself atm heh. Dec 08 01:22:56 * Gary|tp pulls battery. Dec 08 01:23:36 Disconnect: that's pretty much what I have in mind, maybe with a more Android-ish API (content provider), but if we combine your thoughts with what's already in place we should be able to solve that problem. Dec 08 01:24:21 something about overloading the download manager seems like a bad idea to me. but i don't know much about the dl manager, so that could be totally unfounded :) Dec 08 01:24:22 you guys better bring localization to the universe.. wasting such a big brains for the memcache realization... Dec 08 01:25:03 Disconnect: re: Dec 08 01:25:10 man the G1 and Android are both sooo cooool Dec 08 01:25:16 heya SanMehat :) Dec 08 01:25:20 how goes man? Dec 08 01:25:30 Disconnect: well, we could indeed having a service dedicated to managing /cache and write the download manager on top of that, definitely. Dec 08 01:25:51 just arguing with jbq again (kidding :) ..) Dec 08 01:25:55 hahaha Dec 08 01:25:57 still? Dec 08 01:26:11 Avoiding additional processes and additional copies would be good, though :) Dec 08 01:26:20 and yelling at the tv. fscking redskins just screwed up bad. Dec 08 01:26:22 SanMehat: possibly you should put that this channel is logged at http://android.irclogs.space-lab.us/ in the Topic or on join message, freenode has some policy about that Dec 08 01:26:23 30 seconds in :( Dec 08 01:26:25 We're actually having a good discussion :) Dec 08 01:26:44 yah its a christmas miracle :) Dec 08 01:26:57 ivantis: thanks Dec 08 01:28:36 i wonder if the cache manager couldn't be handed a stream and told "when this closes, its the end of the data" for things like downloads. but i see lots of small cached info for things like email clients (it shouldn't be unreasonable to cache the headers for all of the first 200 messages, plus a few message bodies..) Dec 08 01:28:43 does yaffs2 do any sort of tailpacking? Dec 08 01:28:43 How do you get the app you downloaded from market to have a shortcut on your "desktop"? Dec 08 01:29:09 hubar: hold down on a blank part of the desktop, or hold on the icon and drag it out of the drawer Dec 08 01:29:45 Disconnect: I'd prefer to avoid making too many assumptions about filesystems (besides has / doesn't have permissions). Dec 08 01:30:14 alright thanks disconnect.:) Dec 08 01:30:56 i'm just thinking that - in general - it'll be a LOT simpler to create a ton of small files and just expect that its ok rather than try to combine them or tell the apps "sorry, you can't break up the cache in the way that makes sense for you".. Dec 08 01:31:54 Yup. Totally agree. Supporting lots of small files would be much better. Dec 08 01:33:36 hmm. jffs2 compresses also. i wonder if its worth testing. Dec 08 01:33:53 Does jffs2 support mmap? Dec 08 01:35:10 not with compression i'm pretty sure. :) but it looks like they haven't implemented it at all. Dec 08 01:35:12 Disconnect: One issue if I reacall with JFFS2 is that as the size of filesystem grows, memory useage seriously goes up.. jffs2 should be ok though for the internal parts.. Dec 08 01:35:18 dunno if thats gonna matter for cache Dec 08 01:35:34 bgupta: yah yaffs2 reportedly scales as far as 6gb Dec 08 01:36:11 but we're talking cache - on a device that large, they can use yaffs2 but on the g1, jffs2 might make sense (or it might not, of course) Dec 08 01:36:14 ivantis: freenode has a policy about what? Dec 08 01:36:54 I was actually wondering about jffs2 earlier today... especially as we load more binaries into the firmware image... Dec 08 01:37:00 http://www.yaffs.net/comparison-yaffs-vs-jffs Dec 08 01:37:05 Yeah, I should look into that with the systems team. Dec 08 01:37:30 bgupta: if we lose the ability to mmap files from either /system or /data, we'll be in deep trouble. Dec 08 01:37:31 i would be surprised if dalvik didn't need (or at least seriously, seriously want) mmap on /data Dec 08 01:37:36 heh Dec 08 01:38:34 i'd hate to further subdivide it, but it seems like the biggest win would be something like /system that included /system/core and /system/apps on yaffs2, then /data with /data/persist and /data/cache on jffs2+comp :) Dec 08 01:38:53 complicates the 'factory reset' etc etc, and i know its not feasable now. Dec 08 01:39:39 +comp? Dec 08 01:39:45 oh compression Dec 08 01:40:03 FOr some reason I thought jffs2 was compression only. Dec 08 01:40:15 It's certainly worth investigating for the future, though it's tricky because we really mmap a truckload of files (the odex's, the apk's, the so's). Dec 08 01:40:23 I'm thinking at this point it doesn't really make sense.. Dec 08 01:40:32 Flash is so cheap. Dec 08 01:40:47 and these aren't 4mb partitions.. Dec 08 01:40:52 or 4mb flash parts Dec 08 01:40:54 bgupta: so i've got a couple hundred bucks. how do i expand the g1 /data? Dec 08 01:41:09 i wish google supported 'task' data for the calendar... anyone know if there's a hack for that? Dec 08 01:41:16 but a g2? Dec 08 01:41:30 s/but/buy/ Dec 08 01:41:31 bgupta meant: buy a g2? Dec 08 01:41:32 part of this problem is supporting the existing unit (and it sounds like at least hte kogan - if it exists - is going to be similar) Dec 08 01:41:34 speaking of filesystems...(smooth segway)...has anyone got G1 to nfs mount a network drive? Does it HAVE to have portmap on the client sidE? (it seems to ALMOST work, but timeout) Dec 08 01:41:53 ddock: you need portmap for nfs to work Dec 08 01:42:00 if you uninstall an application does it also delete application data? Dec 08 01:42:04 yes Dec 08 01:42:07 or at least, it better Dec 08 01:42:14 :) Dec 08 01:42:17 speaking of which, where is app data saved? Dec 08 01:42:29 /data/data Dec 08 01:42:35 ah Dec 08 01:42:37 so that is a no got then unless I throw a debian install or compile a portmap then.(?) Dec 08 01:42:37 Disconnect: you use twitroid? Dec 08 01:43:01 oh my god i'll bbl i gotta drive to baltimore and shoot my fscking redskins Dec 08 01:43:01 mmm.. what might be useful is getting a FUSE module done.. then you could easily implement filesystems in userspace.. permformance might end up being to poor though.. Dec 08 01:43:06 * ddock wonders how diskless linux boots w/nfs from kernelspace... Dec 08 01:43:21 bgupta, I believe saurik has a fuse module Dec 08 01:43:28 Disconnect: you use twitroid? Dec 08 01:43:29 I'd bet that we're going to see more devices where space on /data is tight (especially low-end phones built around SoC's where gigbytes of flash aren't common). Dec 08 01:44:07 unix_infidel: i use um yah twitdroid Dec 08 01:44:17 jbq_: yah and android is aimed at low-end smartphones Dec 08 01:44:21 If I was porting ANdroid to a devie similar to a Treo650, I would definately be more in favor of jffs2. Dec 08 01:44:30 Disconnect: how much space is twitroid application data using on your G1? Dec 08 01:44:50 according to app info or from du? Dec 08 01:44:52 du is faster :) Dec 08 01:45:09 whichever. Dec 08 01:45:24 380k Dec 08 01:45:32 storage Dec 08 01:45:43 application or app data? Dec 08 01:46:08 235k app, 380k data Dec 08 01:46:21 Anyway, I'd like to know which of the files on /system we don't mmap, but it seems to me that the majority are mmap'ed, so jffs2 might not be making such a difference. It'd be cool to instrument the kernel to actuall gather hard data, though. Dec 08 01:46:29 Disconnect: weird, mine is taking up about 4MB total. Dec 08 01:46:51 jbq_: i'd bet /system /data both require mmap pretty heavily. hmm. i think we can check in proc/*/maps Dec 08 01:47:29 ok /system we're forgetting a big user: /system/lib .. libssl, libcrypto, libm, ec etc Dec 08 01:47:39 those all -really- want to be mmapped. Dec 08 01:47:40 the libs are mmap'ed as well. Dec 08 01:47:51 that's why we prerelocate them all at build time. Dec 08 01:48:00 brb Dec 08 01:48:05 yeah Dec 08 01:48:15 it looks like we're mmapping only apks and dalvik-cache on data Dec 08 01:48:19 Disconnect: DId you verify if jffs2 supports mmap yet? Dec 08 01:48:27 bgupta: it doesn't appear to Dec 08 01:48:45 http://www.yaffs.net/comparison-yaffs-vs-jffs "All the above can generally boil down to: If you're using less than about 64MB the pain vs gain might play in favour of JFFS2. As you increase partition size, YAFFS makes more and more sense." Dec 08 01:49:23 Disconnect: yeah, that sounds right. There might be a few other occasional mmap'ed files on /data, but I'd say the odex files and the apks are the ones the come to mind. Dec 08 01:49:50 Funny, 64MB is just about the filesystem size we're talking about... Dec 08 01:49:54 yah Dec 08 01:50:21 so odex is cache. thats an easy one - move it to /cache as yaffs2 Dec 08 01:50:28 or at least, its recreatable Dec 08 01:51:26 cuz the more i think about it, the more i think /data needs compression more than /cache needs to change (other than the change inherent in "use this for something!" :) ..) Dec 08 01:52:01 Because those files might really disappear with no notice (cache purge), I'd be scared to put anything on /cache that might be mmaped... which is a good argument toward using jffs2 :) Dec 08 01:52:35 SanMehat: yt? Dec 08 01:52:58 when would you -require- purging cache tho? system update (reboot, no problem, kill all apps) or ..? Dec 08 01:53:42 While downloading (especially while downloading non-incremental system images that would pretty much fill all of /cache). Dec 08 01:54:31 hmmm. yah. there would still have to be a registration. and i'm guessing dalvik will be -very- unhappy trying to run w/o the odex? since - in theory - you could spend a few days or more with /cache full of pending update.. Dec 08 01:54:49 yeah, can't run without odex. Dec 08 01:54:52 yah Dec 08 01:55:01 <_Lunch> How do you programatically toggle bluetooth? Dec 08 01:55:42 Mmm... looks like jffs2 is not having any major developments.. Might be interesting to see if we can submit some requirements to the LogFS devs. LogFS appears to be the succesor to jffs2. http://www.logfs.org/logfs/ Dec 08 01:56:02 Kinda really need another partition, right, one for /data that supports mmap, one for /data that might support compression. Dec 08 01:56:18 (but we're not talking about /cache any more) Dec 08 01:56:24 The "Zombie" problem should be fixed by now. About 12% of the total code had to be changed: thats not encouraging :) Dec 08 01:56:39 can we spare the ram for odex? Dec 08 01:56:59 save it to /data, use it in /cache or (if necessary) on tmpfs Dec 08 01:57:22 swetland will kill you if you mention tmpfs :D Dec 08 01:57:31 ? Dec 08 01:57:33 tmpfs is a terrible idea Dec 08 01:57:43 when you have no file backing for it Dec 08 01:57:53 ie: theres nowhere to page the data to Dec 08 01:58:05 no swap.. so anything in tmpfs is just chewing memory used or not Dec 08 01:58:39 * unix_infidel is terrified of having to uninstall apps everytime their Data Cache gets too big... Dec 08 01:58:42 well it would be loaded (and then deleted) by dalvic Dec 08 01:58:43 :-( Dec 08 01:58:44 dalivk Dec 08 01:58:47 grr Dec 08 01:58:57 so its automatically either in use or its reaped Dec 08 01:59:38 i've got 74 obex files, just barely 13 megs. so i could (unhappily) even hold them all in tmpfs if i had to. Dec 08 01:59:45 MMMM thinking that at some point we want to configure the boot loader to support SD card partitions... (If it doesn't already)... SPeaking of which are any of the boat loaders open source? (Or planned to be?). I'm guessing not... would have to completely be reverse engineered, I'd imagine. Dec 08 02:00:52 Regenerating the odex files is expensive, though. In fact that's one of the reasons why we ship the system ones on the system partition. Dec 08 02:00:53 but it would add a little overhead to dalvik startup. start, look for /cache/dalvik/my.obex, look for /data/app/my.app/my.obex, copy it to /dalvikfs/my.obex, mmap it, rm it. Dec 08 02:01:11 Ah, I see what you mean. Dec 08 02:01:20 actually.. forget the cache part in that. no reason for it. Dec 08 02:01:36 I still think that'd hurt pretty bad - lots of lots of RAM would go to waste. Dec 08 02:02:06 jbq_: 12 megs for every odex on my system. looks like 250k on average.. Dec 08 02:02:24 so it adds up to 250k to each app (but not per-thread, since forks and such carry over the descriptor) Dec 08 02:02:35 Damn.. I just found the HTML documentation in the git tree... bgupta is happy. Dec 08 02:02:57 Yeah, that's quite a lot, and RAM ain't going to grow as fast as flash. Dec 08 02:03:01 ok something is wrong with this. Dec 08 02:03:03 1761 data@app@com.myspace.android.apk@classes.dex Dec 08 02:03:08 1.7 megs Dec 08 02:04:42 Anyway, I'm curious about potentially using jffs2 for /cache (I don't have enough visibility over the rest). I think that the lack of mmap might be OK there. Dec 08 02:05:13 does cache get used outside of full android and the recovery partition? if anything else sees/uses it there could be issues. Dec 08 02:05:53 Right now it's just the download manager and OTA updates. I don't know whether OTA updates are verified by mmaping or by reading. Dec 08 02:06:20 Well, other apps can get file descriptors for files in /cache, but I don't believe that they're mmaped. Dec 08 02:06:24 i think its mmapped but that probably won't matter too much, istr its a fairly simple code-path Dec 08 02:06:52 One thing to keep in mind.. you don't really want to be storing compressed files on a jffs2 partition, IE: Jar files come to mind. Dec 08 02:07:09 or zipped updates. but its not "you don't want to" its just "you won't gain" Dec 08 02:07:29 ok whats the solution to mac builds segmentation fault on the javac compiler? im clueless. Dec 08 02:07:42 ooh. thats something though. available space calc on jffs2 is somewhat wiggy, but thats to be expected (compression, plus scratch space) Dec 08 02:07:48 I'd hope that jffs2 is smart enough to recognize file headers for know file types that won't compress well or at all. Dec 08 02:08:02 Actually worse than you won't gain.. you could potentially take more space and you will definatly take a performance hit when it tries to compress precompressed data. Dec 08 02:08:18 jpq: It's not smart enough to do that Dec 08 02:09:02 Disconnect feel free to comfirm... Dec 08 02:09:15 Assuming it's lzh (i.e. zip/gzip/deflate), recompressing compressed data isn't a huge deal in terms of space (but time is an issue). Dunno about other schemes, i.e. lzo. Dec 08 02:09:30 I remember lzo being more CPU-friendly. Dec 08 02:09:35 failing to compress a file doesn't take any more time than actually compressing one :) Dec 08 02:09:41 yah lzo rocks for cpu :) Dec 08 02:10:07 * Disconnect remembers getting something like 10x speed improvement out of swsusp (now tuxonice) when lzo got going Dec 08 02:10:22 Anyway, dinner time here. bbiab... Dec 08 02:10:36 ok have fun Dec 08 02:10:41 thx Dec 08 02:10:58 oh and "don't use logfs with data you like" so i think we should stick with jffs2 for now :) Dec 08 02:11:38 well, it's all supposed to be either cached or redownloadable. we can probably deal with losing data, as long as we know when we did. Dec 08 02:12:02 Disconnect: Yeah... was thinking it would be a good idea to start talking to the devs now.. Dec 08 02:12:12 thats their blanket answer in the faq to "I want to use logfs for X" Dec 08 02:12:40 IE: Explain special needs, if any... Dec 08 02:13:38 Disconnect: Not really that much of a dev, but my understanding with mmap is that no compressed filessytems would support it due to variable block lengths, no? Dec 08 02:14:25 Or am I missing something Dec 08 02:15:51 Disconnect: bbiab.. if you have a few mins, can you check out the updates I made, to make "Keeping root" "UK true" http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Dec 08 02:16:19 jbq_: here's something else to get weird about - execute-in-place /system with no compression (so patching is possible, theoretically) http://kerneltrap.org/AXFS_Advanced_Execute_In_Place_Filesystem Dec 08 02:16:24 COuldn't really test, but it seems the only changes should be in which update.zip file to use. Dec 08 02:16:30 sorry with compression i meant Dec 08 02:16:53 the problem with mmap is arbitrary file access. data schemes like lzh can only stream. If you have 10MB decompressed file and you want a block in the middle, you need to decompress the first 5MB of data. Dec 08 02:17:21 that begs the question about using a block cypher... Dec 08 02:18:00 bgupta: i'd include the md5s at the "download" steps Dec 08 02:18:16 and for "with a root shell" link to somewhere with directions Dec 08 02:19:19 "If missing, the above steps failed. Hold Home and Back to reboot and start over with 'mount'" Dec 08 02:19:42 but overall it looks good, nice work :) Dec 08 02:21:14 ok i need another beer. we're kicking field goals into the camera men instead of the uprights. :( Dec 08 02:21:54 Disconnect: Where are you at? I grew up in NoVa. Dec 08 02:22:09 bowie md - basically between b'more, annapolis and dc. Dec 08 02:22:17 grew up in burke tho Dec 08 02:24:39 Small world, I went to WT Woodson Dec 08 02:24:57 ok. i got nothing. even setting ANDROID_JAVA_HOME doesnt make leopard compile this stuff. waa. Dec 08 02:25:34 lake braddock Dec 08 02:25:38 mmitchel: what steps did you go through? And are you on a case-sensitive partition? Dec 08 02:25:46 mmitchel: I'm having the same issue as you. It's supposed to work, I'm wondering if the java version has anything to do with the issue. Dec 08 02:25:59 case sensitive; yes. installed macport 1.6. and getting segmentation violation off of javac. Dec 08 02:26:16 ive pointed it to 1.5 and 1.6. Dec 08 02:26:35 linux croaks when using sun version 1.6; so i had to back off to 1.5 on that. Dec 08 02:26:54 mmitchel: what's it trying to compile when it segfaults? Dec 08 02:27:04 xsdg: Make is smart enough to detect your filesystem type... so it won't get as far as the javac error if you are on a case insensitive file. Dec 08 02:27:10 javalib.jar is what make dependency pukes. Dec 08 02:27:29 snippet : host Java: droiddoc (out/host/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/droiddoc_intermediates/classes) Dec 08 02:27:33 bgupta: ::nod:: Dec 08 02:27:35 haha Dec 08 02:27:49 here is my segfault: http://pastebin.com/m57da8e0d Dec 08 02:27:57 then it goes off to javac -J-Xmx256.... target 1.5.... Dec 08 02:27:57 mmitchel: at a guess, is it possible that it's runnign out of memory and getting killed, or something? Dec 08 02:28:24 the droiddoc step takes massive amounts of memory (I'm not entirely sure why) Dec 08 02:28:32 In my case OOM would be insane.. I have 8GB RAM. Dec 08 02:28:36 would be a bad setting on ulimit; thought of that. its set for use the whole machine. i have 4G ram and can compile pretty much everything else on the planet. Dec 08 02:29:01 funny thing is a linux setup in a vmware box works lol Dec 08 02:29:26 so its totally the tool chain setup Dec 08 02:29:31 hmmm Dec 08 02:29:53 * mmitchel isnt trying to look like an xcode xpert. Dec 08 02:29:55 another guess: should there no be a space between -J and -Xmx256m? If you add a space, does it help? Dec 08 02:30:06 no its the makefile process... i didnt edit anything. Dec 08 02:30:22 mmitchel: hmm? Dec 08 02:31:17 the instructions at source.android.com/download are ok, but i am missing something. Dec 08 02:31:20 mmitchel: DId you copy the repo over after checking it out onto a case insensitive fs? That's what I did... It's the only deviation from the directions I can think of. Dec 08 02:31:40 THinking to blow it away and recheckout.. Dec 08 02:31:43 no the repo is in a case sensitive sparsebundle. Dec 08 02:32:02 and you checked it out there initiatlly? Dec 08 02:32:02 that kicked my butt earlier when it says - needs a case sensitive partition, then dies. Dec 08 02:32:22 that has correct checks in the build process already Dec 08 02:33:14 Since we're talking about storage space... why does Market take 14 MB? Dec 08 02:33:52 brocktice: cache clearing issues, I believe. they're working on it Dec 08 02:34:02 xsdg, Ah ok Dec 08 02:34:20 Bugs I can live with. If that were the intended behavior it'd be another story. Dec 08 02:37:57 at this point there is barely anything on the phone that is 'intended behavior' :) Dec 08 02:38:05 lol Dec 08 02:38:49 does anyone know of if the tmo hotspots are included in the g1 plan? Dec 08 02:38:59 disconnect: I made most of the suggested changes. I dont have the MD5 info, can you add that? Dec 08 02:39:04 maqr: I believe I heard they are. Don't quote me on that, though Dec 08 02:39:10 i haven't got it Dec 08 02:39:11 bgupta: ya, the repository has never been on a case insensitive partition. Dec 08 02:39:13 xsdg: i thought they were too, trying to figure it out Dec 08 02:39:18 maqr, Yes, supposedly. Dec 08 02:39:25 Unfortunately they took away the laptop wifi access. Dec 08 02:39:37 I had the total internet plan with 400 messages, same price. Dec 08 02:39:48 Now I get 3G but only the G1 can use the hotspots. Dec 08 02:40:07 You may need the stupid hotspot connect app to use it on the G1, which apparently causes other issues. Dec 08 02:40:09 bgupta: my javac and java binaries are located at /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.5/Home/bin/ Dec 08 02:40:24 brocktice: that doesn't really make sense that they'd take that away... isn't that the whole point? Dec 08 02:40:42 maqr, Well, Total Internet was not a widely advertised plan. Dec 08 02:40:55 I was tethering through my razr2, which they thought shouldn't be able to do such things. Dec 08 02:41:00 maqr: you gonna work on that idea i told you about? Dec 08 02:41:08 min is /usr/bin/javac Dec 08 02:41:11 And I got sick of the proxy requirements of T-zones or whatever they call it now. Dec 08 02:41:27 bgupta: follow the symbolic link.. those point back into /System/Library.... Dec 08 02:41:28 So, for people buying G1s they give them hotspot access so that they can use wifi on the device. Dec 08 02:41:37 ah.. ok... Dec 08 02:41:56 But apparently they take away login access. However, I've not tried with my laptop since getting the G1. I'll try to confirm it at a starbucks or something. Dec 08 02:42:06 Yep: /usr/bin/javac -> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/javac Dec 08 02:42:26 bgupta: yah, Current is also a symlink LOL Dec 08 02:42:28 DarkriftX: maybe, haven't had a chance yet, just trying to get this bill sorted out Dec 08 02:42:46 guessing Current is a link Dec 08 02:42:57 doh Dec 08 02:42:59 bgupta: yep; its nicely hidden. Dec 08 02:43:03 i think a cell tower/hotspot overlay on the map would be a great program to have Dec 08 02:43:27 DarkriftX: there's a hotspot app. it might totally f up your wifi access to non-tmob, but there is an app Dec 08 02:44:05 the hotspot app opens a webpage with the closest hotspots to you Dec 08 02:44:07 thats all :S Dec 08 02:44:18 DarkriftX, Doesn't it screw with the APNs or something? Dec 08 02:44:24 no idea Dec 08 02:44:31 it grabs gps periodically and sets up an AP and if it thinks it might -possibly- see a tmob hotspot it tries to switch Dec 08 02:44:36 but it also does autologin Dec 08 02:44:36 i used it a few times, no noticeable affect Dec 08 02:46:27 what the hell is an APN, anyway? Dec 08 02:46:29 market uninstall should include "I need the space" and "Its not quite good enough yet" Dec 08 02:46:31 i keep hearing about that Dec 08 02:46:33 access point something Dec 08 02:46:57 "access point name" Dec 08 02:47:01 thanks Dec 08 02:47:39 http://www.seidioonline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BASI13TMG1' Dec 08 02:47:47 oops, here http://www.seidioonline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BASI13TMG1 Dec 08 02:47:58 I think I'll wait for that one Dec 08 02:48:16 Also, anyone able to get order status on their dev phone? Dec 08 02:48:29 Mine and others have vanished. Dec 08 02:48:34 15%? Dec 08 02:49:04 15-17% I'd say. Dec 08 02:49:08 Isn't the stock 1150 or so? Dec 08 02:49:26 yes Dec 08 02:49:45 so (1350-1150)/1150 ~ 0.17 Dec 08 02:50:25 xsdg: "access point name"? is that some kind of 3G thing? Dec 08 02:50:30 APN. Dec 08 02:50:32 it's a GSM thing. Dec 08 02:50:34 maqr: it's a cell thing Dec 08 02:50:45 back Dec 08 02:50:51 yeah, if you have a non-carrier phone you often have to dig in and set them manually Dec 08 02:50:59 for any kind of data or mms access. Dec 08 02:51:39 agrees with GSM thing, CDMA uses SID's an NID's Dec 08 02:52:01 and NANCYs? Dec 08 02:52:02 xsdg: i don't think i get it Dec 08 02:52:21 maqr, Tells the phone where to look for data access. Hostnames, ports, etc Dec 08 02:52:43 maybe its more like setting your workgroup name in windows for workgroups. Dec 08 02:54:18 brocktice: it seems to have passwords set too, or at least they show ***'s Dec 08 02:54:20 brocktice: you're right. my order have also disappeared Dec 08 02:54:27 brocktice: i wonder how they could possibly think that data is private Dec 08 02:54:28 it was there last night Dec 08 02:54:37 loke, That's what everyone says. Dec 08 02:54:44 I'll see whether my card is charged tomorrow. Dec 08 02:54:59 maqr, Sometimes passwords are required, yes. Other times no. Dec 08 02:55:14 I've never needed them on tmo EDGE or MMS stuff. Dec 08 02:55:37 APN goodies for many many networks : http://modmyi.com/wiki/index.php/Carrier_APN_Settings Dec 08 02:55:39 So, how do we contact brightstar? Dec 08 02:55:47 not sure I've ever needed them over 5+ networks in two countries on two continents Dec 08 02:55:56 'them'='password' Dec 08 02:56:28 brocktice: well, 12 hours ago it worked Dec 08 02:56:35 so let's hope it's just a glitch somewhere Dec 08 02:56:40 hopefully Dec 08 02:57:06 I find it hard to believe that they choose to remove orders on a sunday night US time Dec 08 02:57:21 Ah there's contact info on the help page Dec 08 02:57:31 By Email: android@brightstarcorp.com Dec 08 02:57:32 By Phone: +1-877-727-9789 (from USA) or +1-847-573-5171 (outside the USA) Dec 08 02:57:32 Our call center is available from 9am - 5pm CST, Monday through Friday excluding major US holidays. Dec 08 02:57:32 or launch a product like the dev phone on the weekend? Dec 08 02:57:46 So I guess if nothing shows up all day tomorrow I'll drop them a line. Dec 08 02:58:07 it said something about 3 days on the information i read... Dec 08 02:58:26 mmitchel, yeah, but the order status page was there, and now it says nothing was ordered. Dec 08 02:58:27 what good is this APN information? Dec 08 02:58:30 brocktice: do they say from where they ship? Dec 08 02:58:36 is it shipped directly from china? Dec 08 02:58:37 are you supposed to be able to do something interesting with it? Dec 08 02:58:41 loke, Don't see that anywhere. Dec 08 02:58:44 you need the APN info to connect to AT&T or another network. Dec 08 02:58:45 ok Dec 08 02:58:52 maqr, Yeah, make data services work. :) Dec 08 02:58:53 if it's from china, I'll get it quicker :-) Dec 08 02:59:05 It's unexciting unless you can't get it set right. Dec 08 02:59:10 infobot: fastboo Dec 08 02:59:15 infobot: fastboot Dec 08 02:59:16 hmm... fastboot is a reflash protocol for android devices, or source code at http://tinyurl.com/57nusq, or cheatsheet at http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/8, or fast Dec 08 02:59:20 brocktice: shouldn't they already work? Dec 08 02:59:25 Ah, I do show a charge for $399 from brightstar. Dec 08 02:59:29 maqr: what on earth are you talking about? Dec 08 02:59:33 So that's good. Things aren't totally whacked. Dec 08 02:59:43 maqr, Maybe. Why are you futzing with them? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 08 02:59:57 2008